* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:08] I WOULD LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 2ND, 2020. CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL [Roll Call] PLEASE? FERNANDEZ HERE. FISH. HERE. GIBBS? HERE. VELAZQUEZ? HERE. AREOLA. UH, CARPENTER. HERE. GROUP. HERE. BOWMAN? HERE. BETS SIR. HERE. LA PHONE HERE. WE DO HAVE A QUORUM. UM, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE HAVE A BRIEF, UH, ANNOUNCEMENT FROM TRANSLATION SERVICES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CAN WE GET THE CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT, [Chairman’s Statement] PLEASE? THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE-CHAIR SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY IN THE CITY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY, AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH THIS MEETING THROUGH LIVESTREAM. THEY CAN ALSO LISTEN TO THE MEETING THROUGH AUDIO ONLY BY CALLING 2 1 0 2 0 6 5 4 8 3 IN ENGLISH OR IN SPANISH. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT REQUIRE TRANSLATION SERVICES. THE INTERPRETER WILL TRANSLATE OVER THE PHONE AS NECESSARY IN AN EFFORT TO HEAR ALL CASES ON THE AGENDA, AS WELL AS TO MINIMIZE THE LENGTH OF THE MEETING. APPLICANTS WILL BE, WILL NEED TO SUMMARIZE THEIR STATEMENTS AND BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE SPEAKING IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION EACH HAVE A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES FOR THEIR COMMENTS, AND EACH COMMISSIONER WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS REGARDING EACH APPLICATION. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME, I'LL ASK O H P STAFF TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR TODAY'S MEETING. YES, UM, WE, WE CAN ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF CASES. WE HAVE 21 TOTAL CASES. EIGHT OF THOSE ARE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. UM, WE'LL BEGIN THE [Public Comment] HEARING TODAY BY READING, UH, THE ITEMS, UH, THE COMMENTS FOR THOSE ITEMS ON CONSENT. UM, SO THE FIRST IS FOR ITEM 4 6 24 DAWSON, UM, SUBMITTED BY CLINTON DURHAM. THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION AT 6 24 DAWSON WILL BE A POSITIVE PROJECT FOR THE HOMEOWNER, NEIGHBORHOOD AND CITY. THE CITY GETS TO COLLECT MORE TAXES. THE NEIGHBORHOOD GETS A BEAUTY UPDATE, AND THE HOMEOWNER GETS TO ENJOY A REMARKABLE ADDITION. AS A NEIGHBOR AND FELLOW HOMEOWNER, I SUPPORT ANYONE WHO TRIES TO MAKE THEIR HOME NICER, SAFER, AND MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT. LET US NOT IMPEDE THE PROGRESS OF OUR GORGEOUS NEIGHBORHOOD AS SUPPORTS THIS PROJECT 100%. THE NEXT COMES FROM LISA FISHER. UH, MY HUSBAND AND I MOVED INTO OUR HOME AND ON DECEMBER OF 2016, AT THAT TIME, CHRIS WESTROM WAS NOT YET LIVING ON OUR STREET. THE HOUSE HE NOW OCCUPIES HAS BEEN BEAUTIFULLY REMODELED. SINCE MOVING IN, CHRIS HAS BEEN TIRELESSLY UPGRADING THE HOUSE WITH THOUGHTFUL AND TASTEFUL LANDSCAPING. IT LOOKS INCREDIBLE. A LEFTOVER FROM PRE-RENOVATION SITS IN THE BACKYARD. IT'S AN OMINOUS LOOKING SHED, UM, THAT'S STRUCTURALLY UNSOUND AND IS VISUALLY A DISTRACTION FROM THE BEAUTY OF THE HOME. CHRIS HAS RESEARCHED EXTENSIVELY AND FINALIZED AN ARCHITECT'S PLANS FOR MAKING SOME CHANGES TO HIS PROPERTY. AS HIS DIRECT NEIGHBOR, I LIKE TO DECLARE MY SUPPORT FOR ALL OF THESE CHANGES AND LOOK FORWARD TO THE DEMOLITION OF THE SHED VISIBLE FROM OUR BACKYARD. UM, SHOULD YOU WISH FURTHER INPUT FROM ME OR MY HUSBAND, PLEASE DO NOT HESITATE TO CONTACT US. THE NEXT IS, UH, FROM MICHAEL LONG AND CONES. WE LIVE AT 6 0 6 DAWSON STREET AND ARE IN FULL SUPPORT OF THE PRO PROPOSED PROJECT AT 6 24 DAWSON STREET. THE NEW STRUCTURE IS HARDLY VISIBLE FROM THE [00:05:01] STREET AND SUCH DOES NOT INTERFERE WITH THE MASSING OR FORM OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE, THE PROPOSAL TO DE DECONSTRUCT AND REPURPOSE THE EXISTING SHED AS THE BEST USE OF THIS MATERIAL. IN MY OPINION, AS A BUILDER, WE'RE HAPPY TO SEE CONTINUED INVESTMENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FROM PEOPLE THAT ARE SENSITIVE TO A STORE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THAT, UH, PLAN TO STAY HERE LONG TERM. THANK YOU. UM, THE NEXT COMES FROM EVELYN BROWN. ON BEHALF OF SEVERAL NEIGHBORS, UM, IN THE NUITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD, WE SUPPORT O HP'S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND EMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY BUILDING. UH, MEET THE GUIDELINES, UH, RELATE NEW GARAGES AND OUTBUILDINGS TO THE PURATIVE CONSTRUCTION OF PRINCIPAL BUILDINGS ON THE LOT THROUGH THE USE OF COMPLEMENTARY MATERIALS AND SIMPLIFIED ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS. PER CHAPTER FOUR OF THE HIS DESIGN GUIDELINES, FIVE A THREE TO THIS POINT, THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS VERY MODERN WITH A FLAT ROOF AND STAFF STIPULATIONS TO INCLUDE THREE QUARTERS INCH COMPOSITE SIDING, AND MIRE CORNERS IS A CONCERN AS THESE ARCHITECTURAL ROOF FORMS AND DETAILS ARE NOT COMMON IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, THE LAST IS FROM JOHN . UM, I HAVE LIVED NEXT DOOR TO THIS PROPERTY IN QUESTION FOR FOUR YEARS. I HAVE REVIEWED THE PLANS AND WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY STRONG SUPPORT FOR THESE IMPROVEMENTS. THE CURRENT SHED THAT IS THERE IS AN EYESORE IN ANY IMPROVEMENTS TO WHAT IS CURRENTLY AN ABANDONED LOOKING BACKYARD, BUT INCREASE THE SAFETY OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AS WE HAVE HAD SECURITY ISSUES WITH THE ALLEY JUST BEHIND BOTH HOMES. SINCE THE HOME CHANGED OWNERSHIP, THE CURRENT OWNER OF THIS HOME HAS ALREADY GONE TO GREAT THINGS TO IMPROVE THE AESTHETIC APPEAL OF THE HOME IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GUIDELINES AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THE PROJECT IN QUESTION WILL SUIT. THANKS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. UM, THE NEXT ITEM SIX. UM, WE HAVE ONE WRITTEN COMMENT THAT I'M GONNA READ AND THEN WE HAVE A CALLER. UM, THIS COMES FROM PATTI ZIONS, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, THEY SUPPORT THE FINDINGS OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE AT 7 26 FREDERICKSBURG ROAD. UM, WE BELIEVE THAT THE SITE MEETS THE FIVE CRITERIA OF DESIGNATION AS A LANDMARK. THE FIRST, AS REMINDER OF THE GOOD ROADS MOVEMENT, IT MEETS THE THIRD CRITERION BECAUSE THE PARKLET WAS NAMED FOR LIZ DAVIES, A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, AND FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE BEACON HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. IT MEETS THE SIXTH, THE SIXTH CRITERION. AS AN EXAMPLE OF UTILITARIAN STRUCTURES DEVELOPED AS PART OF THE OLD SPANISH TRAIL IN 1920S. IT MEETS THE SEVENTH CRITERION AS AN ESTABLISHED FAMILIAR FEATURE ALONG FREDERICKSBURG ROAD AND IN BEACON HILL. IT MAKES THE 13TH CRITERION DUE TO ITS LOCATION AND SETTING FLANKED BY HISTORIC COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS EXECUTED IN SPANISH COLONIAL REVIVAL STYLE WITH STUCK WITH WALL WALLS, WALL FINISHES, AND TILED RULE ROOFS. UM, THESE BUILDINGS WERE DESIGNED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE GREEN SPACE, WHICH HAS BEEN DEDICATED AS A PARK BY THE CITY, UM, IN ABOUT 1920. IT WAS NAMED FOR LIZ DAVIES BY ORDINANCE IN 2004. AND THERE IS A PLAQUE AND A DANVILLE CHADBURN SCULPTURE RECOGNITION AS AN INDIVIDUAL LANDMARK WILL HELP FOCUS ATTENTION ON THE PARK, WHICH IS IN NEED OF MAINTENANCE AND HAS SUFFERED INTRUSIONS OF UTILITY BOXES. UM, UH, LET'S UNMUTE JESS AND HAVE OUR CALLER FOR THIS ITEM. ITEM SIX. SIMA, ARE YOU THERE? I AM. I HAVE SIMA COLLIN ON THE LINE ON BEHALF OF, UH, THE BEACON HILL AREA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. DEAR COMMISSIONERS, BEFORE THERE WAS A BEACON HILL, THERE WAS A SMALL AREA MARKED ON A 1906 SURVEY MAP IN A HOPEFUL SUBDIVISION CALLED WHIMSICALLY TREASURE HILL. ON A 1915 MAP OF BEACON HILL, IT BECOMES A SMALL TRIANGLE OF GRASS. BY THE 1930S, IT IS A SMALL GREEN GEM IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUSTLING COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. DESPITE THE NOISE OF CARS IN THE TRAIN, A SMALL PARK OFFERS THEN WHAT IT DOES TODAY, A RESPITE FROM THE TRAFFIC AND SUN. THE GREEN SPACE BECOMES AN INTEGRAL PART OF BEACON HILL'S HISTORY. ON AUGUST 12TH, 2004, THE SAN ANTONIO CITY COUNCIL OFFICIALLY DESIGNATED THE SMALL PARK AS THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE. LIZ DAVIES, BEACON HILL AREA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION'S FIRST PRESIDENT IN 1978 WAS DESCRIBED AS A SMALL WOMAN WHO DID GIGANTIC THINGS FOR THE COMMUNITY. WE HAVE THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE TO REMEMBER HER AS WELL AS THE EXISTENCE OF OUR VERY ACTIVE AND STRONG NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. BEACON HILL RESIDENT BILLY LAMBERT HAS DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OF PRESENTING THE TECHNICAL REASONS WHY THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE SHOULD BE DESIGNATED IN HISTORIC SITE. HIS RESEARCH IS IMPRESSIVELY THOROUGH. WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS THE GREEN SIGNIFICANCE TO OUR COMMUNITY, TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WHY IS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN PLACE AND MEMORY SO IMPORTANT? THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN INDIVIDUAL MEMORY AND COLLECTIVE MEMORY IS WHAT BINDS US NEIGHBORS WITH CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN. TALK ABOUT MEETING THEIR FRIENDS IN THE LITTLE PARK AFTER SCHOOL AT ST. ANNE'S OR BEACON HILL ELEMENTARY. BACK IN THE DAY, BEACON HILL'S NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION CELEBRATED THERE ON THE OCCASION OF ITS 30TH ANNIVERSARY WITH FOOD AND MUSIC BENEATH THE DANVILLE CHADBURN SCULPTURE. BEACON HILL HAS CHANGED THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, BUT THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE IS A LIVING GREEN REMINDER THAT WE ARE A COMMUNITY. IT IS A PLACE THAT SHOULD BE PRESERVED AS WE MOVE INTO THE FUTURE WITH THE REVITALIZATION OF THE FREDERICKSBURG ROAD CORRIDOR. PLEASE RECOMMEND A HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE. [00:10:01] THIS IS AN IMPORTANT HISTORIC SITE, IMPORTANT NOT ONLY TO THE HISTORY OF BEACON HILL, BUT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AS WELL. RESPECTFULLY, CYNTHIA SPIELMAN, PRESIDENT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT BACK IN THE DAY BEACON. UM, IF THERE'S SOMEBODY WATCHING THE REPLAY, LET'S MUTE THAT. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, WE ACTUALLY HAVE ONE MORE WRITTEN COMMENT FOR ITEM SIX. IT COMES FROM STUART JOHNSON. UM, THE OLD SPANISH TRAIL CENTENNIAL CELEBRATION ASSOCIATION ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORTS THE PROPOSAL TO DESIGNATE THE LIZ DAVIES GREEN SPACE AT THE INTERSECTION OF WICK ROAD, UH, MICHIGAN AVENUE AND WEST FRENCH PLACE. AS THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO HISTORIC LANDMARK, O S T 100 WAS FORMED TO RECOGNIZE THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS OF THE 3000 MILE COAST TO COAST OLD SPANISH TRAIL HIGHWAY HEADQUARTERED HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. BETWEEN 1919 AND 1929, WHEN THE HIGHWAY WAS COMPLETED, THE O S T BOARD OF DIRECTORS CHOSE A 32 MILE PORTION OF THE HIGHWAY BETWEEN SAN ANTONIO AND BERNIE AS THE O S D HEADQUARTERS SECTION WHERE DIFFERENT MODELS OF FINE HIGHWAY BUILDING, LANDSCAPING AND SAFETY PRECO PRECAUTIONS WERE DISPLAYED. IN ADDITION, THE O S T BEAUTIFICATION LADIES COMMITTEE RECOMMENDED PARKS, MONUMENTS, SIGNAGE AND SAFETY MEASURES ALONG THE RIGHT OF WAY O S T 100 HAS A SPECIAL INTEREST IN THE BURG ROAD CORRIDOR BUILT UPON THE EARLIER EL PASO STAGE ROUTE DUE TO ITS SIGNIFICANCE AS PART OF THE 32 MILE O S T HEADQUARTERS STATION SECTION, LIZ DAVIES, GREEN GREEN SPACE FIRST APPEARS ON A 1922 CITY OF SAN ANTONIO ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, DRAWING AS A CITY PARK CONTEMPORARY TO THE TIME OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE OLD SPANISH TRAIL HIGHWAY. DESIGNING DESIGNATING THE CURRENT GREEN SPACE AS A HISTORIC LANDMARK, AS WELL AS RETAINING THE ORIGINAL FOOTPRINT OF THE PARK AS DEMARCATED IN THE 1922 CITY SURVEY IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE TO HELP IN REMEMBERING THOSE EARLY HIGHWAY PIONEERS AS MODELS FOR ED, AS MODELS FOR EDUCATION PRESERVATION AND CELEBRATION. NEXT WE HAVE ITEM EIGHT. UM, THIS FIRST COMES FROM PATTY ZIONS, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, THEY APPRECIATE THE APPLICANT REACHING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY, UM, AND TO OUR ORGANIZATION REGARDING THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION, RELOCATION AND REDEVELOPMENT OF STRUCTURES AT 7 22 SOUTH ST. MARY'S. ONE POSITIVE RESULT OF THIS COMMUNITY CONVERSATION IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE HISTORIC STONE AND COLLEGIATE WALLS WILL BE PRESERVED IN PLACE. ALTHOUGH WE ARE CONCERNED THAT THE CONTRACTOR, UM, IS NOT GUARANTEEING THIS A CLEAR PLAN FOR THE RELOCATION AND CONSERVATION OF THE OTHER ORIGINAL WALL SHOULD BE IN THIS APPLICATION. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY REMAINS CONCERNED THAT THE MASSING OF THE NEW BUILDING INCLUDES A SECOND STORY CANOPY AND FINS THAT ARE OUT OF SCALE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THE SECOND STORY COULD BE ACHIEVED WITHOUT OVERWHELMING THE GENERALLY CONTEXTUAL FIRST STORY SIMPLY BY PULLING BACK THE FINS IN CANOPY. THE LAVACCA AND KING WILLIAM NEIGHBORHOODS, INCLUDING COMMERCIAL FRONT FRONTAGES, ARE DEFINED BY MODEST STRUCTURES IN A PEDESTRIAN ORIENTED RHYTHM OF OPEN SPACES AND BUILDING FRONTS. THE LONG CONTINUOUS FACADE, UH, PROPOSED HERE CHALLENGES THE SETBACK AND MASSING PATTERN, WHICH COULD STILL BE ACHIEVED BY BURYING THE SETBACK. FLIPPING THE FLEX DINING AND DINING COURT AREAS IS ONE SOLUTION OF MANY. WHILE WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL STAGE, OUR EXPERIENCE IS THAT KEY DECISIONS ABOUT MASSING SETBACK MATERIALS AND DESIGN ELEMENTS MUST BE WORKED OUT IN THIS STAGE RATHER THAN WAITING FOR THE FINAL DESIGN APPROVAL PROCESS. UM, AND THEN WE DO HAVE A CALLER, UM, RACHEL, ARE YOU THERE WITH MARGARET LEEDS? YES, WE ARE. CAN YOU HEAR US? YES, GO AHEAD MARGARET. UH, THANK YOU. TIME LI DICTATE READING ONLY THE MOST CRUCIAL PORTIONS OF THE LETTER FROM KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION'S ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE, 1 2 2 MADISON STREET REGARDING CASE 2020 DASH 5 0 7, BEGINNING WITH ITEM TWO. WE CONCUR WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL AND STIPULATIONS, PARTICULARLY THAT THE HISTORIC WALLS BE PRESERVED AND INCORPORATED INTO THE DESIGN OF THE NEW STRUCTURE. WE OFFER THIS SUPPORT CONTINGENT UPON ADJUSTMENTS TO THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN AS FOLLOWS, A, THE SCALE AND MASS OF THE BUILDING BE ADJUSTED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE PATTERN OF THE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS IN THIS BLOCK AND VICINITY. AS THE GUIDELINES SUGGEST WALL PLANE OFFSETS STEP DOWNS IN BUILDING HEIGHT AND OTHER VARIATIONS IN BUILDING MASSING CAN HELP TO REDUCE THE SCALE OF THE LONG BUILDING FACADE. B, REDUCE THE OVERWHELMING IMPACT OF THE ROOF TERRACE TRELLIS AS IT RELATES TO ST. MARY STREET AND THE KING WILLIAM GARDEN HOUSE. ITEM FOUR, THE EXISTING FENCE AND LANDSCAPE BUFFER IN FRONT OF THE KING WILLIAM GARDEN HOME SHOULD BE PRESERVED AND NOT REPLACED WITH THE MASONRY WALL AS PROPOSED. OUR SUPPORT OF THE PLANS FOR THE FUTURE ROSARIOS IS CONTINGENT UPON RECEIPT OF AN ENFORCEABLE NOISE MITIGATION AGREEMENT FROM MS. WONG THAT WILL SERVE TO PROTECT NEARBY RESIDENTS FROM DISTURBING NOISE LEVELS EMANATING FROM THE PROPOSED OUTDOOR DINING AREAS. NOISE LEVELS TO BE EXPECTED FROM THE OUTDOOR COURTYARD AND FROM THE ROOFTOP BAR AREA WITH A DIRECT PATH TO NEARBY RESIDENCES WOULD IMPACT THE TRANQUILITY OF OUR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. [00:15:01] THE AMBIENT AND OR AMPLIFIED NOISE LEVEL FROM OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES HAS RECENTLY ESCALATED TO THE POINT OF DRIVING NEIGHBORS OUT OF THEIR HOMES. THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION'S PRIMARY MISSION IS TO PROMOTE THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE KING WILLIAM NEIGHBORHOOD BY PRESERVING THE HISTORIC AND RESIDENTIAL NATURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE BELIEVE THAT PROTECTING RESIDENTS FROM UNBEARABLE NOISE ENCROACHMENT IS WHAT WE MUST DO TO PRESERVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MS. LEANS. UM, SO THAT COMPLETES THE PUBLIC COMMENTS RECEIVED FOR ITEMS ON CONSENT. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE [CONSENT AGENDA] ALSO HAVE ADDITIONAL LETTERS IN YOUR SHARED FOLDER THAT YOU CAN REFERENCE IF YOU'D LIKE TO. UM, FOLLOWING THOSE, DOES ANYBODY WISH TO PULL ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION? THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. COULD I PULL ITEM EIGHT? YEP. AND WE'LL HIGHLIGHT THAT ON THE SCREEN. AND THIS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, CAN YOU PULL ITEM FIVE PLEASE? OKAY. UM, WE HAVE A RECUSAL FOR AN ITEM ON CONSENT BY, UH, CHAIRMAN FETZER. UM, SO HE WILL, UH, LEAVE DISCUSSION AT THIS POINT. UM, AND, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, IF YOU'D LIKE TO CALL FOR A MOTION FOR THE REMAINDER. SURE. UH, MAY WE HAVE A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA? THIS IS COMMISSIONER EZ. UH, MOTION TO APPROVE ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR, SIX AND SEVEN. UH, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER, FISH A SECOND. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AS SECOND. UM, ALL IN FAVOR? RAISE YOUR HAND. TURN YOUR MIC ON. SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES. GREAT. THANK YOU. UM, SO RACHEL, IF YOU'RE READY, LET'S GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON [5. 20-7078 Address/Description: 405 CLUB DR HDRC Case No.: 2020-519 Historic District Name: Monticello Park Applicant: Stacey Zimmermann/Marc Jones Construction LLC dba Sunpro Solar Request: Solar panel installation City Council Dist.: 7] WITH, UM, ITEM FIVE. JUST PULLED FOR INDIVIDUAL INTO CONSIDERATION. RACHEL IS NOT READY. UM, SO LET'S GIVE HER A SECOND TO GET THE APPLICANT ON THE LINE. OKAY. IT LOOKS LIKE WE'VE WE'RE ABOUT THERE, COREY. I HAVE THE APPLICANT STACY'S A MOMENT ON THE LINE. GREAT. UM, STACY, ARE YOU THERE? YES, I'M HERE. I'M JUST, UM, I'M DRIVING. I'M, I'LL TRY TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THE BEST I CAN. OKAY. UH, THIS IS, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UH, THANK YOU MR. ZIMMERMAN. APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE, THE CALL. UM, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THIS, THIS WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN IMPLEMENTED, IS THAT CORRECT? UM, YES SIR. IT HAS, UNFORTUNATELY, I GUESS WE ORIGINALLY, UM, APPLIED FOR THE PERMIT. THE PERMIT WAS UNDER REVIEW AND ISSUED, AND THEN SOME CHANGES WERE MADE. UM, SO WE HAD TO RESUBMIT THE PERMIT AND THEN AT THAT TIME IT WAS CAUGHT THAT IT WAS IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. OKAY. YEAH, I I JUST WANTED TO MAKE, UH, YOU AWARE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS KIND OF WORK DOES REQUIRE GOING THROUGH H D R C, UH, TO BE IMPLEMENTED AND SUNPRO SHOULD HAVE, UH, TIPPED YOU TO THAT AS WELL. SO I'M KINDA DISAPPOINTED WITH THEIR LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM WITH THIS. UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL BECAUSE OF THE MINIMAL, MINIMAL VISIBILITY, UH, FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. BUT I THINK THIS SETS A REALLY POTENTIALLY BAD PRECEDENT. UM, I AM ALL FOR THE INTEGRATION OF SUSTAINABLE SYSTEMS, [00:20:01] UH, WITHIN HISTORIC DISTRICTS AS LONG AS THEY'RE DONE SENSITIVE SENSITIVELY AND ON SECONDARY STRUCTURES OR ON SECONDARY ELEVATIONS. WELL, THIS IS THE PRIMARY ELEVATION AND I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IT IS AS MINIMALLY VISIBLE AS, AS, UH, PERHAPS OTHERS ARE, UH, CLAIM. SO I'M, I'M OPPOSED TO THIS, UH, THIS INSTALLATION. I CLICK ON THAT HERE. UM, OKAY. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY OR DO FROM THIS POINT, UM, IF YOU OBJECT TO IT. SO I JUST WANT, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. UM, WE'RE GONNA TAKE A VOTE ON YOUR CASE AND UM, BUT, UH, THERE ARE SOME GUIDELINES AND, AND STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL, BUT THEY DID HAVE A STIPULATION. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOTICED THAT STIPULATION THAT THEY SAID THAT, UM, IT TO BE 18 INCHES FROM THE ROOF EDGE. IF I'M CORRECT. WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH THAT IF IT WERE TO BE APPROVED? ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT STIPULATION? I ARE. YOU, ARE YOU ME? YES. OH, YES, IT SHOULD BE. UH, THAT SHOULD BE THE FIRE CODE. I WOULD, I WOULD THINK SO ANYWAY. UM, I, WELL, JUST TO MAKE SURE, I GUESS I WOULD JUST MAYBE ASK, UH, BECAUSE YOUR PLANS DON'T SHOW EXACT DETAILS TOWARDS THAT, MAYBE WE CAN JUST, UH, ADD THAT YOU SUBMIT A PLAN, UM, SHOWING THOSE 18 INCHES FROM THE ROOF. EVES. YEAH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER, THIS IS COMMISSIONER BOWMAN. I, LOOKING AT THIS PLAN, UH, IT LOOKS AS THOUGH YOU'RE GONNA POTENTIALLY REQUIRES A DEFINITE REARRANGEMENT OF THESE PANELS TO, TO MAKE SOMETHING LIKE THAT WORK. AND SO I THINK IT WOULD, UH, DEFINITELY NEED TO BE PRESENTED IN A WAY THAT THAT STAFF STIPULATION IS, IS DRAWN UP AND PRESENTED BACK TO US. 'CAUSE I, I DON'T SEE HOW YOU COULD GET THIS CURRENT COUNT WITH THAT, UH, WITH THAT STIPULATION, UH, CHAIRMAN, CHAIRMAN MIGHT, MIGHT WE ASK THE, UH, THE APPLICANT TO EXPLAIN THE HOLISTIC, UH, UH, PROJECT AND TELL US EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THAT, UH, IN, IN COMPLETE FORM SHE'S PROPOSING. OKAY. UM, AGAIN, I JUST, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WE ARE JUST, UM, INSTALLING SOLAR PANELS ON A ROOF. UM, I DON'T KNOW THE, I'M, AGAIN, I'M DRIVING, I'M NOT IN FRONT OF MY COMPUTER UNFORTUNATELY AT THE TIME. UM, SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT DETAILED INFORMATION YOU NEED OR YOU'RE ASKING ME. UM, WELL, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE, IF I'M LOOKING AT THE RIGHT PROJECT, I'M WONDERING WHY THERE'S AN IMAGE OF A DECK BEING, WELL, I MEAN, WHAT WAS THE WE BEING PRESENTED A PICTURE OF A, OF A DECK? AM I ON THE RIGHT PROJECT? SO, UM, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. YOU'RE LOOKING AT A ROOF FLAME WITH SOLAR PANELS AND THERE'S A LOWER ROOF ABOVE A SECOND STORY BALCONY THAT HAS THREE PANELS ON IT. AND THAT LOWER ROOF, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO BECAUSE IT'S NEARLY HORIZONTAL AND THOSE PANELS ARE NOT VISIBLE AND THEY'RE, THEY ARE DOING A LOW OFFSET, BUT SOME OF THE OTHER ONES ARE VERY VISIBLE AS, AS IT'S, UH, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET AND GETTING BLEAK VIEWS PROPERTY. FORTUNATELY THOSE AREN'T INCLUDED IN THIS PACKAGE, BUT, BUT NOW, CHAIRMAN, UM, WHY IS THERE AN IMAGE OF, I MEAN, SO, SO THAT THAT DECK THERE HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PROJECT. THE SOLAR PANELS, I SEE THE PANELS AND ALL THAT, BUT THERE'S AN IMAGE HERE THAT HAS A DECK UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND GRANITE, GRANITE CRUSH GRANITE, UM, PHOTOS OF ALL SIGNS OF THE PROPERTY ARE REQUIRED FOR THE APPLICATION. SO THIS IS JUST INCLUDED IN THE APPLICATION AS MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT, BUT, BUT THE DECK, DOES THIS DECK HAVE TO GO BEFORE THIS AS WELL, OR THIS IS NO, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE DECK. WE'RE ONLY LOOKING AT THE SOLAR COUNTS. CORRECT. OKAY. BUT I THINK THAT PICKS UP ON KIND OF MY, MY GREATER CONCERN HERE IS THAT WORK IS BEING DONE AND THERE'S NOT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT YOU'RE WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT UNTIL AFTER THE FACT. AND SO THAT'S ONE CONCERN. AND THE SECOND CONCERN IS THAT THIS IS, HE IS ON THE PRIMARY, UH, FACADE OF THE, OF THE BUILDING, THE, THE FACADE THAT'S THE, UH, FACING THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UH, THE CLAIM IS THAT IT'S MENTALLY VISIBLE, BUT I, I REFUTE THAT CLAIM. THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER AND I WOULD, UH, AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER CARPENTER THAT, UM, TYPICALLY THE GUIDELINES ARE THAT, UH, [00:25:01] FOR SOLAR PANELS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT THEY BE PUT ON, UH, SECONDARY FACADES. UH, THIS BEING THE, THE FRONT FACADE AND, AND, UM, SOMEWHAT VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SUPPORT IT EITHER. UM, THE DRAWINGS OR THE ATTACHMENT DRAWINGS WITH SOME DIMENSIONS, UH, DON'T, DO NOT INDICATE, UM, WHAT WAS INSTALLED IN TERMS OF DIMENSIONS FROM THE, THE EAVES AND EVERYTHING, WHICH IS WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THE 18 INCHES. UM, ONE SUGGESTION MIGHT BE TO, UM, ASK THE APPLICANT TO COME BACK WITH AS-BUILT FIELD VERIFIED DIMENSIONS ON THE PANELS, LOCATIONS ON THE ROOF, AND, UH, SOME, UH, SOME MORE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWING THAT THE, UH, HOW VISIBLE THESE PANELS ARE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UM, I MOVE FOR, UH, THIS PROJECT TO BE TABLED FOR NOW UNTIL THE APPLICANT CAN COME FORTH WITH, UM, UH, FIELD VERIFIED, UH, AS-BUILT, UH, DRAWINGS AND ADDITIONAL PHOTOGRAPHS, UH, PROVING UP THE MINIMAL, MINIMAL VISIBILITY TO THE COMMISSION. THIS COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, I WANNA SECOND THAT MOTION. ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE UNMUTE, RAISE YOUR HAND AND SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL VOTE PLEASE. YEAH, I THOUGHT WE WERE DOING RO PROMOTIONS. I'M SORRY. WE HAVE TO DORO CALL. SORRY, FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH. FISH. AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN. AYE. THAT AYE LI AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM EIGHT. [8. 20-7092 Address/Description: 722 S ST MARYS ST 20-7087HDRC Case No.: 2020-507 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Andrew Douglas/Douglas Architects Inc. Request: Partial demolition of the primary structure, new construction of a 2-story commercial structure, house relocation, site modifications City Council Dist.: 1] UM, STEPH, I BELIEVE YOU HAVE THE APPLICANT ON THE LINE THERE. YES, I DO. I HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM DOUGLAS ARCHITECTS ON THE LINE. CAN Y'ALL INTRODUCE YOURSELF? GOOD AFTERNOON. YES, THIS IS, UH, ANDREW DOUGLAS WITH DOUGLAS ARCHITECTS. UH, LISA LONG WITH, WITH RIOS. OKAY. AND JEREMY WITH THIS, SORRY. SORRY, JEREMY. YEAH, I THINK WE CAN HEAR EVERYONE. UM, LET'S GO AHEAD. UM, SINCE THIS IS A, UM, MORE DETAILED REQUEST, STAFF, IF YOU WILL QUICKLY REQUE READ THE FOUR REQUEST ITEMS AND THEN THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION, UM, WE WILL THEN GIVE THE APPLICANT A TOTAL OF 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT. SURE. UM, H C R C CASE NUMBER 2020 ADDRESS, 7 22 SOUTH ST. MARY'S FIVE 19 SOUTH PRESA AND 7 32 SOUTH ST. MARY'S. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH PORTIONS OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 7 22 SOUTH ST. MARY'S. TWO, CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE. THREE, RELOCATE THE FL DIXON HOUSE LOCATED AT FIVE 19 SOUTH PRESA TO THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY. AND FOUR, PERFORMED VARIOUS SITE MODIFICATIONS TO INCLUDE THE CREATION OF A NEW SURFACE PARKING LOT RIGHT OF WAY IMPROVEMENTS AND LANDSCAPING. UM, ITEM ONE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION OF PORTIONS OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH B AND ONE A THROUGH ONE C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A LANDMARK DESIGNATION REQUEST FOR THE INTERIOR OF THE CALICHE STRUCTURE TO ENSURE ITS PRESERVATION AND PERPETUITY. THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION REQUEST MUST BE APPROVED BY THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION PRIOR TO, PRIOR TO OR CONCURRENTLY WITH THE REQUEST FOR FINAL APPROVAL OF SITE THE SITE REDEVELOPMENT. TWO, THAT THE CALICHE STRUCTURE BE UTILIZED AS A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE SPACE. AND THE NEW PROPOSAL THE APPLICANT MUST CLEARLY ILLUSTRATE THE USE OF THE STRUCTURE AS WELL AS, AS THE ACCESSIBILITY PLAN AND THE SUBMITTAL FOR FINAL APPROVAL. AND THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A COMPREHENSIVE CONTINGENCY PLAN SHOULD ANY PORTION OF THE CLEAT STRUCTURE BE DAMAGED OR OTHERWISE AFFECTED DURING STABILIZATION AND THE CONSTRUCTION FOR FINAL APPROVAL. ITEM TWO, STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF REQUEST. ITEM TWO, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO STORY COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE BASED ON FINDINGS TWO A THROUGH TWO K WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT EXPLORES EXPLORES WAYS TO VI TO REDUCE THE VISUAL IMPACT OF THE ELEVATOR TOWER AS NOTED IN FINDING TWO C TWO THAT THE APPLICANT EXPLORES WAY TO INCORPORATE FENESTRATION ON THE SOUTH PRESS OF FACADE OR ALTERNATIVE THE F FACADE TREATMENTS THAT BREAK UP THE VISUAL MASS [00:30:01] AS NOTED IN FINDING TWO G M THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT MODIFIES THE OVERALL PROPOSAL TO INCORPORATE THE MATERIAL FROM THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURES WALL TO BE DISMANTLED AS A PROMINENT FACADE ELEMENT. AS NOTED IN FINDINGS TWO I AND TWO K, THE APPLICANT MUST SUBMIT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR DISMANTLING, SALVAGE, AND REUSE OF THE STONE FOR FINAL APPROVAL. ITEM THREE, STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE RELOCATION OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE LOCATED AT FIVE 19 SOUTH PRESA BASED ON FINDING THREE A. AND ITEM FOUR STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED SITE MODIFICATIONS BASED ON FINDING THREE B WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A COMPREHENSIVE SITE PLAN FOR FINAL APPROVAL TO INCLUDE ALL PROPOSED MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AND TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT INCREASES THE PROPOSED LANDSCAPING AND SCREENING BUFFER ALONG THE SOUTH PRESA STREET FRONTAGE AS NOTED IN BINDING THREE LS COM. COMMISSIONER, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, I, UH, BEFORE THE PRESENTATION OCCURS, I, I'D LIKE TO HAVE SOME CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF. SO I, I UNDERSTAND THE PRESENTATION THAT WE'RE ABOUT TO BE GIVEN IS TO THE FIRST ITEM. WHY WOULD THIS CLIENT, THIS APPLICANT, RIGHT? WHY WOULD THIS APPLICANT SUBMIT FOR A, UH, DESIGNATION UNLESS IT'S THEIR, UH, OBJECTIVE IN THEIR APPLICATION? YEAH, I CAN ANSWER SUBMIT FOR A DESIGNATION. I CAN ANSWER THAT. UM, SO ACTUALLY, IF WE CAN GO TO, UM, A SATELLITE IMAGE I THINK WOULD BE BEST TO ILLUSTRATE THIS, UH, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE CLOSE ENOUGH. UM, BUT THE ENTIRE SITE IS CURRENTLY A, A DESIGNATED, UH, HISTORIC LANDMARK. IT HAS A HISTORIC OVERLAY. UM, THE REASON FOR THAT DESIGNATION IS BECAUSE THERE IS A, UM, 19TH CENTURY STONE, UM, CALICHE BLOCK STRUCTURE THAT CURRENTLY SHARES ONE OF THE EXTERIOR WALLS OF THE RESTAURANT. SO, UM, AS YOU KNOW, THE H C R C ONLY HAS PURVIEW OVER BUILDING EXTERIORS, NOT INTERIORS, RIGHT. IN THE PROPOSAL, UM, THE, THE STONE WALLS WOULD BE RETAINED, BUT THEY WOULD MOVE COMPLETELY INTO THE INTERIOR OF THE NEW RESTAURANT. RIGHT? SO IF THAT IS APPROVED, UM, THERE WOULD NO LONGER BE COMMISSION PURVIEW OVER WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE WALLS. THEY WOULD BE COMPLETELY INTERIOR, RIGHT? AND SO WE ARE RECOMMENDING, UM, SOME SORT OF MECHANISM, EITHER AN INTERIOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION OR DEEDED RESTRICTION OR WHATEVER IS PROPOSED, UH, AS PART OF, UH, THE, THE METHOD FOR PRESERVING THAT IN THE, IN THE FUTURE. OKAY? NOW, UM, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THIS TYPE OF WORK IN MEXICO CITY, RIGHT? THEY BUILT AROUND, UH, HISTORIC, UH, STRUCTURES. NOW, ARE THEY REQUIRED TO DO THIS? I, I JUST THINK 'CAUSE IT WAS A LITTLE ODD SEEING IT VOICE THE WAY THAT IT IS, THAT THE WAY THAT IT'S PRESENTED, YOU SAID, I'M TELLING THIS WE ARE, WE ARE RECOMMENDING THIS CONDITION. UM, IF THE PROJECT MOVES FORWARD AND IS APPROVED, THIS IS OUR RECOMMENDATION NUMBER TO ENSURE FUTURE PRESERVATION. THAT WALL, THIS IS WHAT OUR ORDINANCE ALLOWS IS, IS WE CAN'T REVIEW IT IN FUTURE UNLESS IT HAS A DESIGNATION. MM-HMM. . OKAY. NOW, NOW WITH RESPECT TO IT MOVING INTO AN INTERIOR WITHOUT A DESIGNATION, THE PROBLEM IS ARE YOU PROHIBITED FROM THAT? I NEED TO BE, NOW I NEED TO BE LISTENING. I'M, I'M GETTING SOME FEEDBACK. I DON'T IF SOMEBODY NEEDS TO MUTE. IS IT EDWARD? OH, YOU'RE MUTED RIGHT NOW BECAUSE ONE SECOND. WE'RE GOING CLEAR UP SOME AUDIO. YEAH, I'M NOT CONNECTED TO THE MEETING YET, JUST YET, BUT I NEED TO BE ON MY, OKAY. SORRY ABOUT THAT. WOULD WOULD STICK TO IT, NOT SAY THE APPLICANT OPTS NOT TO. DOES IT, DOES IT IMPOSE A, AN IMPEDIMENT TO THE PROJECT? UM, NO, IT JUST MEANS THERE WOULD BE AN IMPEDIMENT TO THE FUTURE PRESERVATION OF THAT STRUCTURE. UM, THE COMMISSION AND THE CITY WOULD NO LONGER HAVE DESIGN AUTHORITY OVER WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT BUILDING IF IT BECOMES INTERIOR ONLY. SO, SO IS IT, IS IT, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT, THAT THERE'S A DESIGNATION ONLY ON THE WALL ITSELF AND IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? UM, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT, SO WHEN, WHEN A LANDMARK IS CREATED, UM, VERY OFTEN WHAT HAPPENS IS WHAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN, THE ENTIRE PARCEL IS WHAT IS DESIGNATED THE ENTIRE PROPERTY. UM, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE TO REDUCE THE, THE DE THE DESIGNATION BOUNDARIES TO A SMALLER FOOTPRINT. UM, BUT SPECIFICALLY, UM, WE HAVE OTHER, UH, RESOURCES IN THE CITY, UH, WHERE INTERIORS HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED. SO OUR, OUR, UM, DOWNTOWN THEATERS, UM, HAVE INTERIOR DESIGNATIONS. SO WE HAVE DESIGN REVIEW OVER THOSE AS WELL AS THOMAS AND JEFF THOMAS JEFFERSON HIGH SCHOOL. OKAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR, I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER, COREY. I I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT FOR, YOU KNOW, IN, IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THE PRESENTATION, THAT, UM, IT, YOU NEVER KNOW THE PRESENTATION ENCROACHES ON SOMETHING THAT MIGHT, MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL TO THE DESIGN OR WHATEVER THE MECHANISMS ARE. [00:35:01] I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR COMPLEX ANSWER. I MEAN, I KNOW IT'S A COMPLEX SITUATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YEP. OKAY. IS THE APPLICANT THERE? YES. OKAY. ANDREW, JUST TELL US WHAT SLIDES YOU WANT US TO START ON, AND WE'LL, WE WILL TAKE YOUR CUES TO ADVANCE. UM, WHY DON'T WE GO TO, CAN WE GO TO THE, UH, WE'LL JUST, WE'LL BRIEFLY GO OVER, I GUESS, HISTORIC SIGNIFICANT APPROPRIATENESS. IF WE COULD GO TO THE, UH, FIRST SLIDE. JUST, JUST WANNA DO THAT TIMELINE, JUST BRIEFLY GO THROUGH THE TIMELINE OF ACTIVITIES, ANDREW, IF POSSIBLE. UM, THE, IF YOU CAN BRING UP THE CASE FILE THAT STAFF SENT YOU AND REFERENCE A SPECIFIC PAGE NUMBER. UM, I'M NOT THE ONE, UM, MOVING THE SLIDE PAGE, SO IT'LL BE HELPFUL. IT WOULD BE PAGE THREE. YES, STEPHANIE, SO THAT IS THE, THAT'S THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL PACKAGE THAT THE PREVIOUS, YEAH, PREVIOUS PACKAGE. YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD. WE CAN START WITH THAT. UM, OKAY. WE'LL START HERE AND WE'RE GONNA START, ANDREW, JUST QUICKLY, WE'RE GONNA START THE CLOCK FOR 15 MINUTES. OKAY. YEAH. CAN WE GO BACK A LITTLE FURTHER? OKAY. UM, JUST, YEAH, RIGHT. LET'S START THERE. AND JUST SO YOU KNOW, ANDREW, THE LIVE STREAM HAS ABOUT TEN SECOND DELAY. YEAH. UH, ITEM, UH, SLIDE 24. UH, OKAY. SORRY. I'M SORRY. GO, GO BACK. UH, GO BACK, ANDREW. THERE'S A, OKAY, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA GO ON SLIDE 24, ANDREW, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A TEN SECOND DELAY FROM WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON THE SCREEN. UM, SO YOU MAY SEE WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE MOVING THROUGH, BUT IF YOU CAN GIVE US THE PAGE NUMBER OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION THAT WE SENT YOU LAST WEEK, WE'LL BE ABLE TO FOLLOW ALONG WITH YOU IN REAL TIME. AND WE'RE ON SLIDE 24 RIGHT NOW. OKAY, GOOD. OKAY. OKAY. I SEE THE SITE PLAN. THAT'S GOOD. YOU GOOD? SO, WE'RE READY WHEN YOU ARE. WE'RE ON SLIDE 24. OKAY. OKAY. SO THIS SITE PLAN SHOWS THE, THE STRUCTURE. SO WE TALKED ABOUT THE, UH, F L DIXON HOUSE, WHICH IS CURRENTLY LOCATED IN THAT GRAY BOX TO THE LEFT, AND THE PROPOSED APP, AND THE APPLICATION WILL MOVING UP TO THE RIGHT. AND THEN THE KING WILLIAM GARDEN HOUSE JUST SOUTH OF THAT, UH, IS CURRENTLY IN THAT LOCATION. IT'S GONNA BE BOTH PRESERVED AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT. AND THEN THE STONE CCHE STRUCTURES THAT WERE DESIGNATED BACK IN THE EIGHTIES. UH, YOU CAN SEE THAT HIGHLIGHTED, UH, IN THE, UH, IN THAT NOTE THERE IN THE YELLOW, THAT SQUARE BOX, THIS IS STONE AND COLUCCI STRUCTURE, UH, THAT IS A LEAN-TO, THAT WAS PART OF THE OLD HOUSE. AND JUST SOUTH OF THAT IS THE, UH, THE, THE ONE REMAINING WALL OF THAT HOUSE. AND WE'LL GO INTO MORE DETAIL HERE IN A SECOND. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO, ANDREW, YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO TRUST US. WE'RE ON THE SLIDE. UM, IT'S GONNA BE DELAYED ON YOUR END, SO JUST CONTINUE TALKING. OKAY. GET MY NOTES REAL QUICK. OKAY. SO, UM, I, UH, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO WE WENT THROUGH A SERIES OF OF STUDIES. SO THIS SLIDE HERE SHOWS THE SLIDE YOU JUST SAW, SHOWS LOCATION OF THE CALICHE STRUCTURE IN RED, AND THEN THE PROPOSED, THE YELLOW INDICATES THE WALL, THE EXTERIOR WALLET OF CALICHE THAT'S THERE, AND THAT'LL BE, UH, REPURPOSED ON THE SITE ELSEWHERE. WE'LL WORK WITH THE COMMISSION TO LOCATE A APPROPRIATE, UH, LOCATION IN THE REDEVELOPMENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, ON THE FACADE OR MAYBE IN THE, IN THE COURT SPACE INTEGRATION. UH, NEXT SLIDE. UM, THESE ARE A SERIES OF DIAGRAMS JUST LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE, UH, LAYOUT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. UH, THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION AS NOTED, UH, REFERENCES THE, UH, COLUCCI STRUCTURES. UH, NEXT SLIDE. [00:40:07] SO IT SHOULD BE THE SANBORN MAP, UH, WHICH SHOWS THE, THE, UH, THE, THE OLDER HISTORIC HOUSE AND ITS LOCATION. UH, NEXT SLIDE. SO THIS IS THE CONSTRUCTION COST, AND WE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, UH, WORKING WITH WHAT'S THERE VERSUS THE DEMOLITION. AND IT'S OVER, YOU KNOW, HALF A MILLION DOLLARS OF ADDED COST. UH, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE, THE DEMOLITION OF, UH, EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE STONE AND CCHE STRUCTURES ON THE REDEVELOPMENT. NEXT SLIDE. UH, NEXT SLIDE. OKAY. CAN WE GO TO, UH, THE, UH, PROS, THE, UH, PROPOSED PRESERVATION PLAN? ANDREW, CAN YOU GIVE US A PAGE NUMBER, PLEASE? YOU CAN GO TO PAGE 38. YEAH, IF WE COULD GO TO, UH, PAGE 38. WE'RE THERE NOW. WE'RE ON THAT PAGE RIGHT NOW. OKAY. SO PAGE 38 SHOWS THE CCHI STRUCTURE, WHICH IS THAT ROOM, A LEAN TO STRUCTURE THAT HAS THE KIVA FIREPLACE IN IT, SO THAT THE INTENT IS TO PRESERVE THAT STRUCTURE AND ITS PLACE, UH, THE, UH, THE, THE SECTION YOU SEE THERE IN YELLOW IS THE, UH, WALL THAT GOES, UH, SOUTH OF THAT, UH, THAT STRUCTURE WOULD BE RELOCATED, UH, AND, AND RE RECONSTRUCTED INTO THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN, UH, SOMEWHERE ON WHERE THE EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS ARE IN THE COURT SPACE. UH, THE SECTION TO THE RIGHT SHOWS THE ENCAPSULATION OF THE STRUCTURE IN THE NEW STRUCTURE. SO WE'RE LITERALLY GOING TO, UH, PRESERVE IT, BUT WE ARE GOING TO, UH, WE ARE GONNA NEED TO PROVIDE SOME LEVEL OF FIRE SEPARATION. WE'RE GONNA WORK THROUGH THAT. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE SHOWING A WALL STRUCTURE BEING BUILT AROUND IT TO ENCAPSULATE, BECAUSE THE CONSTRUCTION TYPE DOESN'T ALIGN WITH THE COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE, UH, CONSTRUCTION TYPE. SO WE'RE GONNA NEED TO WORK THROUGH THAT WITH YOU, UH, TO DEVELOP THE APPROPRIATE, UH, SEPARATION. WE DO HAVE WOOD MATERIALS IN THE STRUCTURE THAT DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE FINAL MATERIALS IN, IN THIS COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE, WHICH IS, UH, THE CORPORATION. UH, NEXT SLIDE. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE PRESERVATION PLAN FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF, WE'LL NOW GO INTO KIND OF THE, UH, THE PLAN FOR REDEVELOPMENT. SO ON SLIDE NUMBER, UH, 39, YEP, WE'RE THERE. OKAY. AND THEN GO ON TO, UH, 40. SO I THINK WE WENT THROUGH THE SITE PLAN. SO, UH, THE ARCHITECTURAL SITE PLAN SHOWS, UH, THE LAYOUT OF THE PROPERTY. I KNOW THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION AND SOME OF THE COMMENTS RECEIVED, UH, FROM SOME OF THE, UH, SYSTEMS TO BE HEARD. I THINK THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, UH, THE BLOCK FACE OF THE PROPERTY, UH, IN THE DESIGN IS APPROXIMATELY A HUNDRED FEET OF DEVELOPMENT, UH, OR 160 FEET OF DEVELOPMENT. UH, THAT'S SO ALONG ST. MARY'S THERE THAT YOU SEE, THAT'S 160 FEET, UH, THE CURRENT ROSARIOS, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH A LINEAR, IT'S 160 FEET. SO WE'RE, WE'RE SHORTER THAN THE CURRENT ROSARIOS THREE FRONT. AND IF YOU KNOW, KNOW THAT THAT, UH, PROPERTY ON ST. MARY'S STREET, IT IS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME BAY FOR THAT 160 FEET. IT, IT'S A REPETITION OF THE SAME PATTERN ALL THE WAY DOWN TO CANOPY GOES TO FULL LINE. SO, UH, THERE'S THAT PROPERTY. AND THEN WE HAVE, UH, NEIGHBORING THAT ACROSS THE STREET, DIAGONALLY ACROSS WHERE FRANCIS BOGSIDE IS. THAT'S, THOSE STRUCTURES MAKE UP 162 FEET OF RUN. UH, SO WE'RE AT 160 FEET. SO WE FEEL LIKE THE DEVELOPMENT IS WELL WITHIN APPROPRIATE SCALE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. [00:45:01] NOW, ONE THING WE ARE DOING THAT, UH, THAT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE ON THE CYCLING, THE SEMI ELEVATIONS, THE MINUTE WE ARE BREAKING UP THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING, THE THREE MAJOR COMPONENTS, AND WE'LL SHOW THAT, UH, IN THE ELEVATION. UH, BUT THE SIDE PLAN SHOWS, UH, ONE IS ENHANCED STREET SCAPE. UH, REALLY THE BIG PLAN HERE IS TO ENHANCE WITH SOME PRETTY LUSH VEGETATION AND LANDSCAPING, UH, THE SIDEWALK AREA IN FRONT OF THE, UH, REST ON DOWN ST. MAY. SO FULL SIDEWALK IMPROVEMENTS, NEW CURBS, UH, ALL BEING REWORKED. UH, WE ARE INTRODUCING SOME CAFE, UH, SEATING, WHICH IS ENCOURAGED UNDER THE DEVELOPMENT CODE. THAT'LL BE PART OF THE RESTAURANT EXPERIENCE. IT'LL HELP ACTIVATE THE STREET SCAPE, UH, THAT AREA IN ORANGE. THERE, YOU SEE, THAT'S THE PRIMARY ENTRANCE, UH, INTO THE, UH, RESTAURANT THERE AT THE CORNER. AND TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, YOU SEE THE MAIN COURT SPACE, WHICH INCLUDES, UH, THE KING WILLIAM GARDEN HOUSE, WHICH IS THE BACKGROUND BUILDING WITHIN THAT SPACE. UH, THE RESTAURANT ITSELF IS AN L-SHAPED RESTAURANT. THERE IS A COURT SPACE THERE TO THE NORTH END OF THE PLAN, WHICH WILL THE OUTDOOR COURT SPACE. THAT'S BETWEEN THE MAVERICK BUILDING AND OUR EXTERIOR WALL. AND THEN THE AREA IN GRAY REPRESENTS SUPPORT, WHICH IS PRIMARILY THE, UH, KITCHEN RESTROOM, UH, ELEVATORS AND SUPPORT. IT DOES INCLUDE THAT KEYVAN STRUCTURE YOU SEE ON THIS DEAD CENTER IN A PLAN, UH, BEING INCORPORATED INTO THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. ON THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, THERE'S A ROOFTOP TERRACE, AND IT INCLUDES, UH, A SMALL BAR AND MORE LOUNGE SEATING. UH, IT IS A CASUAL, UH, SEATING AREA FOR PATRONS WHEN THEY COME TO THE RESTAURANT TO SIT PRIOR TO HAVING DINNER, AS WELL AS MAYBE AFTER DINNER, GOING TO THE RESTAURANT BAR. UH, SO IT'S A, IT'S AN AMENITY WITHIN THE WHOLE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. UH, REALLY LOOKING AT THE ENERGY BETWEEN THAT SPACE AND THE COURT SPACE. UH, THE TWO, THOSE TWO SPACES WILL PLAY OFF EACH OTHER, UH, QUITE NICELY. NEXT SLIDE. SO, THIS ELEVATION PERSPECTIVE IS LOOKING FROM ST. MARY'S STREET TO THE PROPERTY, UH, TO THE RIGHT, YOU SEE THE KINGLEY GARDEN HOUSE AND THE COURT SPACE. THE TREES THAT YOU SEE THERE ARE, THAT ARE RENDERED IN THERE ARE PRETTY ACCURATE TO WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE. UH, TO THE LEFT IS THE NEW BUILD STRUCTURE, WHICH STARTS PRETTY MUCH WHERE THE CURRENT STRUCTURE IS, OR THE CURRENT CANOPY STRUCTURE IS. AND THEN THAT RUNS THE FULL LENGTH OF THE PROPERTY, UH, TO THE NORTH. UH, THE ELEMENTS OF THE BUILDING INCLUDE, UH, A REGULAR RHYTHM OF, UH, STOREFRONT, UH, OPENINGS, WHICH RUN DOWN THE STREET, WHICH WERE INDICATIVE OF A LOT OF COMMERCIAL, UH, DISTRICT, UH, PROPERTIES. UH, VERY MUCH LIKE THE CURRENT ROSARIOS. SO WE'VE GOT COLUMNS, UH, WITH, WITH, UH, WITH WINDOW STOREFRONT OPENINGS. AND THEN WE HAVE THE BLADE CAN'T BE RUNNING THROUGH. UH, THE VERTICAL ELEMENTS ARE, UH, SHADE SCREENS. WE DO HAVE WESTERN EXPOSURE. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE AS WE WORK ON THE DESIGN IS SHAPE, UH, SHADE PROTECTION ON THE, ON THE UPPER LEVEL. UH, IT IS A WEST FACING EXPOSURE, WHICH IS PRETTY INTENSE. WE'VE DONE A LOT OF, UH, MODELING WITH, AT THE DIFFERENT SUN ANGLES. UH, THE LEFT OF THE STOREFRONT, YOU'LL SEE A SCREEN ELEMENT. AND BEYOND THAT, YOU SEE THAT HANS, UM, UH, BRICK. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THIS IS ANOTHER SHOT COMING AROUND THE COURT SPACE. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THE WALL ELEMENT YOU SEE THERE TO THE RIGHT. WE'RE, WE'RE OPEN TO COMING UP WITH THE RIGHT SOLUTION THERE. ONE OF THE IDEAS HERE WAS TO WARM THIS UP A LITTLE BIT. WE, WE LIKE THE IDEA OF OPENNESS, BUT THERE DOES NEED TO BE SOME LOW OF SECURITY FOR THE SPACE, UH, AFTER HOURS. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT SOLUTION, UH, TO MAKE THAT WORK, UH, UH, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL, FOR THE, FOR THE OWNER. UH, YOU CAN SEE THE LANDSCAPING THERE IN THE FOREGROUND. THAT'LL ALL BE NEW LANDSCAPING. THAT'LL BE PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. NEXT SLIDE. SO THIS ELEVATION SHOWS THE GENERAL MATERIAL, UM, AND IT SHOWS KIND OF THE, THE, UH, APPLICATION OF THE DIFFERENT DESIGN IDEAS ON THE ELEVATION. AND, UH, YOU'LL SEE THOSE CANOPY ELEMENTS THAT ARE CUT, UH, PANEL TYPE. WE'VE GOT THE CANOPY THAT'S ABOVE THAT, THAT LOCKS INTO IT. WE HAVE THE BLADE CAN DOWN BELOW AT THE STOREFRONT. WE'RE LOOKING AT A DECORATIVE, UH, UH, TRANSOM BLAST FEATURE THAT WOULD RUN RIGHT ABOVE THE BLADE, CANOPY, THE LEFT, WE'RE LOOKING AT A PUNCH, UH, UH, THE PUNCH METAL SCREEN ELEMENT. AND TO THEN BEYOND THAT, THE LEFT, YOU'LL SEE THAT'S THE HOTTEST BLOCK, WHICH IS WHERE THE OPEN COURT SPACE IS. SO WE'RE BREAKING THE MASSING DOWN WITH THESE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS. SO IT'S NOT ONE BIG LONG LINEAL RUN, BIG, LONG LINEAL RUN. IT'S ACTUALLY MADE UP OF THREE, UH, PRIMARY COMPONENTS. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS JUST SHOWING SOME PRECEDENT OF IDEAS THAT APPLY TO THE DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS FOR THE PROJECT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS LOOKING AT THE PROSPECTIVE SHOT LOOKING SOUTH DOWN ST. MARY'S TOWARDS THE OLD ROSARIOS. UH, THERE ON THE LEFT, YOU SEE THAT DHAN, THAT'S THE TOKEN COURT SPACE. AND THEN TO THE RIGHT OF THAT BEGINS THE, THE ACTUAL INTERIOR RESTAURANT. NEXT SLIDE. UH, THIS IS KIND OF [00:50:01] A LITTLE BIT OF A FALSE PERSPECTIVE. WE'RE LOOKING KIND OF THROUGH THE KING WILLIAM GARDEN HOUSE WHERE WE WANNA BE ABLE TO SHOW THIS OVERALL ELEVATION. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME COMMENTS FROM THE CITY AND OTHERS ABOUT THE ELEVATOR. WE, WE TEND TO AGREE, WE WANNA FIND A WAY TO INTEGRATE THIS INTO THE DESIGN IN APPROPRIATE WAY. SO WE, WE WILL BE WORKING WITH YOU TO, UH, RESOLVE THAT IN AN APPROPRIATE FASHION. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THIS IS THE PRESSA STREET ELEVATION. AND SO HERE WE'RE LOOKING AT ONE, WE'LL HAVE A STAIR ELEMENT THAT WE'LL GO UP TO. THE, UH, GROUP TERRACE WILL BE A SECOND MEANS OF EGRESS. WE'LL ALSO HAVE GRAPHIC ART LEASES COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH A LOCAL ARTIST TO DO SOME PRETTY SIGNIFICANT HERE THAT'LL DO SOMETHING THAT'LL BE ICONIC AND BE REALLY A, A, AN ICONIC ART PIECE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. A SENSE OF QUALITY AND CRAFT THAT WILL BE INTEGRATED INTO THE OVERALL PLAN. UH, AND THEN WE'RE INTRODUCING THE JOHANNES, UH, BRICK BACK HERE AS LONG ALONG WITH THE, UH, THE, UH, MASONRY, UH, BRICK. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THEN THESE ARE JUST SOME PRECEDENT IMAGES AND SOME OF THE MATERIALITY IDEAS THAT WE'RE STUDYING RIGHT NOW. AND WORKING THROUGH, UH, YOU CAN SEE KIND OF THE STOREFRONT IDEAS, UH, AS LONG ALONG WITH THE, UH, THE METALS OF THE CANOPY OF THE, THE AREAS ON THE BRICK MASON WE'RE GONNA CREATE BY THESE KIND OF SCREENED EFFECTS YOU TO LOOK THROUGH INTO THE RESTAURANT. NEXT SLIDE. AND THEN THESE STUDIES, WE'RE LOOKING MORE AT SOME OF THE PUNCH METAL IDEAS WE'RE LOOKING AT FOR THE, FOR THE, FOR THE, UH, SHADE SCREEN ELEMENTS, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE OTHER METAL PIECES WITHIN THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT PLAN. I THINK THAT'S IT. I JUST WANTED TO THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR TIME TODAY. UM, I, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS, UH, ALONG WITH THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY. AND, UH, YOU HAVE OUR COMMITMENT TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON SOME OF THESE DESIGN ELEMENTS. UH, AS WELL AS I KNOW THERE'S SOME CONCERNS ON NOISE. AS I'VE STATED BEFORE, I'M A RESTAURANT TOUR. I'M RUNNING A RESTAURANT. I'M AT AN ENTERTAINMENT VENUE. UH, SO I KNOW THAT WE CAN, UM, PROVIDE THE CORRECT LANGUAGE TO GIVE EVERYONE THE, THE CONFIDENCE THAT, UH, THEY CAN CONTINUE TO ENJOY THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I'VE BEEN PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS. UM, IT'S, UH, IT'S, IT'S MY SECOND HOME AWAY FROM HOME. AND, UH, YOU HAVE MY COMMITMENT THERE. AND, UH, ANY OTHER ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH? YOU HAVE MY COMMITMENT AS WELL. THIS, UH, PROJECT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. BEING PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD FABRIC IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO ME. UM, I, I'VE BEEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AGAIN SINCE THE LAST 30 YEARS, AND, UH, I HOPE TO, UH, FOR GENERATIONS TO COME TO BE PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. UM, I JUST WANNA THANK YOU FOR THAT, UH, COMMENT, UH, WONG. AND, UH, I REALLY APPRECIATE, UH, THE, THE EFFORTS OVER THE LAST, UH, SEVERAL WEEKS OR MONTHS TO REACH OUT TO, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION, THE VCA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND CONSERVATION SOCIETY. I'M SORRY, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES. YES. OKAY. UM, UH, I HAVE A, UH, A QUESTION ABOUT, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS. AND I, AND I GUESS THIS IS DIRECTED TO MR. DOUGLAS. UH, ARE Y'ALL IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AS THEY ARE CURRENTLY LISTED? UH, YES WE ARE. OKAY. SO THE, WE WERE PROVIDED LETTERS FROM, UM, QUITE A FEW LETTERS, BUT, BUT MANY FROM, UH, OR A LETTER FROM WILLIAM ASSOCIATION, LAVACCA AND CONSERVATION. THEY'RE, AND LARGELY IN AGREEMENT WITH EACH OTHER AND MOSTLY THE ISSUES THERE ARE ENCAPSULATED, UH, UH, REALLY WITHIN THE STIPULATIONS, UH, THAT WE HAVE IN THE RECOMMENDATION. UH, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE, UH, THOSE LETTERS AND LOOK AT THOSE SUGGESTIONS AS PART OF THIS CONCEPTUAL PASS. HAVE YOU BEEN PROVIDED THOSE TO DATE? UH, NOT LACA. OKAY. I'LL ASK, I'LL ASK STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE COPIES OF THOSE. UM, THEY'RE, SOME OF THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC, BUT GENERALLY THEY'RE ENCAPSULATED WITHIN THE STIPULATIONS HERE. AND I, I AGREE WITH, I AGREE WITH STAFFS, UM, FINDINGS AND, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD POSITIONS LARGELY. AND, UH, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. AND WITH THAT, I, I WOULD JUST GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL, AND IF OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS, THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND JUMP IN. I'LL SECOND WITH STAFF STIPULATION COMMISSIONER FISH. YES. WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. THANK YOU. [00:55:01] I'LL SECOND AS WELL. UH, COMMISSIONER FISH. AND WITH YOUR PERMISSION CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE, UH, APPLICANT A QUESTION OR TWO W WITH RESPECT TO THE STAFF FINDINGS ON ONE, UH, HOW DO YOU, UH, HOW DOES THAT AFFECT YOUR PROJECT? THE, UH, WITH RESPECT TO THE, THE, UH, UH, DESIGNATION THAT THEY'RE ASKING YOU TO, THAT THEY'RE RECOMMENDING? HOW DOES IT AFFECT IT IN TERMS OF A DEVELOPMENT FROM A DEVELOPMENT OPERATION STANDPOINT? YEAH. DOES IT, DOES IT NEGATIVELY AFFECT THE, THE, THE DESIGN INTENT OR, UH, DO YOU FEEL IT'S NECESSARY? IS IT, IS IT THAT YOU WOULD JUST SAY, YEAH, LET'S DO THAT? I MEAN, WHAT IS YOUR POSITION? YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT, IT, IT, IT'S CHALLENGING FROM THE SENSE THAT IT'S GONNA COST SIGNIFICANT MORE MONEY, UH, TO WORK AROUND THIS STRUCTURE. UH, IT, IT'S INTERESTING. UM, IT DOES FALL IN AN AREA IN THE PLAN THAT IS WORKABLE. AND SO, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK OUR REALIZATION AS WE WERE WORKING WITH THE DIFFERENT COMMUNITY STAKEHOLDERS AND WITH H D R C IS, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A, A HIGH DESIRE TO, TO PRESERVE. AND, UH, SO OUR THINKING IS, YOU KNOW, SINCE AT THE PLAN, THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN INTEGRATE IT ON, ON THE PLAN. WE'RE NOT, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY PROGRAMMATICALLY HOW THAT SPACE IS GONNA BE USED, BUT, UH, IT FALLS IN AN AREA THAT MAKES IT, UH, SOMETHING THAT WE CAN INCORPORATE INTO THE PLAN. OKAY. NOW, I, I, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST TELL YOU THAT I, I, I APPRECIATE THE HOLISTIC ARCHITECTURAL STATEMENT THAT'S BEING MADE. UM, YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT CAN EASILY BE ARGUED THAT, UH, THE VACA TO A LARGE EXTENT HAS BEEN INFLUENCED BY THE PROFESSIONALISM AND THE, AND THE, UH, JUST THE STANDARD THAT ROSARIOS HAS SET, AND WITH RESPECT TO THE WAY THAT IT'S DEVELOPED, UH, MOVING FROM THAT BUILDING, THAT'S, THAT'S THE TRIANGLE SHAPED BUILDING OVER TO A BUILDING THAT SHOWS, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, SETTING, SETTING PERMANENT ROOTS. AND, AND IT, IT'S REALLY, UM, UH, SOMETHING I THINK THAT, THAT THE WHOLE COMMUNITY THERE CAN BE PROUD OF. BECAUSE ONE THING THEY KNOW, THEY KNOW HOW THAT BUSINESS DOES BUSINESS. AND, UH, SO, SO I, I I, I, I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE HOLISTIC SENSE OF THE ARCHITECTURE AND JUST WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT, THAT, UH, WHATEVER YOUR INTENT IS THAT, UH, THAT YOU STAND BY THAT DESIGN INTENT. AND, AND I'M VERY, UH, YOU PLEASED THAT, THAT THE CITY, UH, STAFF PUT THAT ITEM AS NUMBER ONE SO THAT YOU CAN SERIOUSLY CONSIDER HOW THAT AFFECTS YOUR PROJECT. BUT DON'T BE AFRAID TO BE HONEST WITH US AND, UM, AND, AND SHOW US WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IT IS AND SOLUTIONS THAT YOU DO HAVE. UH, SO, SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. I LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, YOU KNOW, SEEING ALL YOUR IDEAS. IT'S FANTASTIC. YEAH. THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER, AND I ALSO WANT TO THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION AND YOUR, UH, ENGAGEMENT WITH THE COMMUNITY AND NEIGHBORHOODS ABOUT THE DEVELOPMENT AND YOUR, UH, STATED COMMITMENT TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH THE, THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY. AS YOU DEVELOP THIS, UM, AS A PATRON OF THE PREVIOUS ESTABLISHMENT. I REMEMBER HAVING, UH, LUNCHEONS IN THIS SMALL LITTLE CALICHE ROOM. IF YOU LOOK TO, UH, SLIDE 61, UM, IT'S A NICE INTIMATE DINING ROOM. AND I, THAT MAY BE ONE POSSIBILITY FOR USE OF THIS SPACE. UH, IT WOULD GIVE SOME HISTORY TO THE, UM, OR AT LEAST A NOD TO THE HISTORY OF THE, THE BUILDING, UH, THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND OTHER, UM, CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO MAY APPRECIATE. SO, UM, I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HOW YOU INCORPORATE THIS. AND, UH, AS THE ONE STAFF STIPULATION IS THAT IT'D BE A, A SPACE THAT'S, UM, ACCESSIBLE BY THE PUBLIC. SO THANK YOU. YES, WE AGREE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SO IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELAZQUEZ, VELAZQUEZ? [01:00:04] YES. YES. UM, CARPENTER? AYE. ROB, AYE. BOWMAN? AYE. AYE. THATOR AYE. NOTHING. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU ALL. OKAY, RETURNING TO THE CASE LIST. WE'RE UP TO ITEM 9, 10 38. [9. 20-7066 Address/Description: 1038 DAWSON ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-478 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: ricardo mccullough/mccullough design associates Request: Construction of two, 2-story residential structures, and two, 1-story residential structures for a total of four structures City Council Dist.: 2] DAWSON. UM, EDWARD, CAN YOU UNMUTE YOURSELF? MATT, I'LL SEND YOU A REQUEST. HOW ABOUT NOW? YEP. OKAY, PERFECT. UM, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER NINE, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 24 78. 10 38 DAWSON, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT TWO, TWO STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES AND ONE STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES ON THE VACANT LOT AT 10 38. DAWSON LOCATED WITHIN THE DICK WITTY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REGARDING MASSING, INCLUDING A STREET ELEVATION FOR DAWSON STREET TO CONFORM TO CONFIRM THE APPROPRIATE MASSING IS NOTED IN FINDING G TWO, IF THE APPLICANT INCREASED SETBACKS TO BE GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON DAWSON STREET, IS NOTED IN FINDING E THREE. IF THE APPLICANT UTILIZED FOUNDATION HEIGHTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES, AT LEAST ONE FOOT IN HEIGHT IS NOTED IN FINDING J FOUR. THE STRUCTURE FEATURE OF FRONT PORCH WITH MASSING THAT IS INTEGRAL TO THAT OF THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN FINDING M FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED INFORMATION REGARDING LIGHT COVERAGE TO NOTE THAT LIGHT COVERAGE DOES NOT EXCEED 50% IS NOTED IN FINDING N SIX, THAT THAT ALL SIDING FEATURE OF FOUR INCH EXPOSURE OF THICKNESS OF THREE QUARTERS OF AN INCH MITRE CORNERS AND A SMOOTH FINISH COLUMN SHOULD BE SIX INCHES SQUARE. AND WINDOW MATERIAL SHOULD MEET STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. SEVEN, THAT ALL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED FROM. VIEW IS NOTED IN FINDING T AND EIGHT THAT A LANDSCAPING PLAN BE DEVELOPED AND SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW IS NOTED IN FINDING R UH, HAVE THE APPLICANT, RICARDO MCCULLOUGH, WHO IS ON THE LINE NOW. RICARDO, IF YOU CAN UNMUTE YOURSELF. UH, WE'RE READY FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. UM, YEAH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONER. UH, THIS IS RICARDO MC. YES, GO, GO AHEAD. YES. UM, YEAH, I HAVE THE, UH, THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE STAFF IN FRONT OF ME. AND I ALSO HEARD, UH, EDWARD, THAT IT WAS NOT, UH, NOT GONNA BE APPROVED AS A CONCEPTUAL UNTIL THESE ITEMS ARE ADDRESSED. IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS. UH, IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS STAFF STIPULATIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, THEN THE COMMISSIONERS WILL ASK QUESTIONS AND DISCUSS IT AND DECIDE WHETHER TO, UH, APPROVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. OKAY. YEAH, BASICALLY I HAVE, ONE OF MY QUESTIONS IS, UH, IT'S ON, ON, UM, ITEM NUMBER TWO TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, THE SETBACK TO BE GREATER THAN THOSE, UH, FOUND IN, IN HILL. UH, BUT WHEN, WHEN WE, WE SAY GREATER, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? 10 FEET OR 15 FEET? GENERALLY IT IS, UM, THE SETBACK OF NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE BEHIND THE, UH, SETBACK OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES. UM, AND THAT COULD BE A FOOT, COULD BE TWO FEET, COULD BE THREE FEET. IT'S, UM, UH, IF YOUR SITE ALLOWS AND YOUR, YOUR DEVELOPMENT IS SUCH, YOU COULD HAVE GREATER THAN THAT. BUT, UM, IT IS GENERALLY TO, UH, KEEP BEHIND THE, THE FRONT ELEVATIONS OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES. AND IF YOU, OKAY. LOOK ON YOUR, UH, CONCEPTUAL AERIAL VIEW, RIGHT? THAT'S UP THERE. NOW, UH, YOUR FRONT PORCHES ARE PROBABLY 10 FEET IN FRONT OF THE ADJACENT HOUSE TO THE LEFT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S A, THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT, YES. OKAY. SO THAT'S ONE MAJOR STIPULATION OR RECOMMENDATION THAT STAFF HAS MADE IS THE SETBACKS. SO THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. UH, WOULD THE APPLICANT BE OPEN TO GO TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE TO REVIEW ALL THESE, UH, STIPULATIONS MORE IN DETAIL? UM, I THINK THERE'S WAYS THAT THE APPLICANT COULD UNDERSTAND IT BETTER AND NOT HAVING TO, AND THEN MAYBE COME BACK FOR, UH, WITH UPDATED DRAWINGS. [01:05:02] MR. MCCULLOUGH, HAVE YOU BEEN TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE ON THIS PROJECT? UH, NO, I HAVE NOT. THIS IS ACTUALLY THE SECOND TIME THAT, THAT I SUBMIT FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. WE WERE DENIED, UH, THE FIRST TIME WITH WHAT THE ACTUAL CLIENTS WANTED TO DO. UH, SO THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, UH, AGAIN AND STILL WORKING ON THE PLANS. THIS IS, THIS IS STAFF. UM, THERE WAS A DESIGN THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY REVIEWED BY THE D R C, UH, IN AUGUST, UH, AUGUST THE 25TH. UM, I'M NOT SEEING THE NOTES HERE, BUT THERE IS A FINDING THAT WOULD BE FINDING D UH, THAT REFERENCES THAT, UM, BELIEVE THERE WERE THE COMMENTS THAT WERE GIVEN AT THAT D R C MEETING, UH, IS GENERALLY WHAT DIRECTED WELL THOSE COMMENTS IN ADDITION TO STAFF'S COMMENTS, WHAT DIRECTED THE APPLICANT TO UPDATE THE DESIGN AND WHAT WE SEE NOW? WELL, ONE, ONE THING THAT I'M NOTING, UH, EDWARD IS YOUR, YOUR, UM, THIS IS COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ. YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE NOT REAL STRINGENT. I MEAN, THEY'RE PRETTY, PRETTY REASONABLE. IT'S ALMOST, UH, HARDLY FOCUSED ON, ON THE BUILDING, UH, THE BUILDINGS, IT KIND OF PLACEMENT THE 50%, UM, CAN, COULD BE STRESSFUL. I MEAN, I, I CAN'T TELL WITHOUT THERE BEING A, YOU KNOW, PERCENTAGE OF BUILDING AND, AND LOT PRESENTED THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK THE, THE, UM, APPLICANT, UH, IS, IS, IS THIS IN ANY WAY CONSIDERED, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR IS THIS GENERAL MARKET VALUE HOUSING? IT'S A GENERAL MARKET. GENERAL MARKET. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. YES. SO THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS THAT, UM, THIS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL PROBABLY ALSO GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A, A GUIDELINE FOR THE, UH, APPLICANT TO DO THE DESIGN. BUT I FEEL LIKE THERE'S TWO, UM, SOME OF THE SETBACKS IS SO IMPORTANT, AND WE'VE SEEN THAT IN PREVIOUS PROJECTS, AND IT MAY CHANGE THE PROJECT COMPLETELY BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A TIGHT LOT AND THERE'S FOUR HOMES AS WELL AS THE SITE LOT COVERAGE. SO THOSE ACTUALLY, I MEAN, THEY MAY BE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED, BUT IT'S A VERY SMALL LOT TO PUT, PUTTING, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PROPERTY. AND I THINK THOSE, THOSE STIPULATIONS HAVE TO BE WORKED ON BEFORE A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. AND, UH, IF THIS DOES GO TO A, A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, UH, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE APPLICANT COME BACK WITH, UH, A SIDE PLAN THAT SHOWS THE BLOCK AND THE ADJACENT SETBACKS, AS WELL AS ELEVATIONS OF THE, UH, ADJACENT PROPERTIES. SO THAT, UH, IN RELATION TO HIS BUILDING MASSING, 'CAUSE MASSING AND SETBACKS WERE TWO OF THE, THE STAFF'S, UH, COMMENTS. COMMISSIONER CHAIR P I'D MAKE A MOTION TO SEND IT TO A, A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. COMMISSIONERS, BEFORE WE DO, WE DO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS WE NEED TO GET TO VERY QUICKLY. UM, YES, THANK YOU. SORRY. VERSUS FROM PATTI ZIONS, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, THEY CONCUR WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS TO DENY CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OF SIX NEW RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON THREE LOTS IS TWO DENTS AND OUT OF CHARACTER WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD THROUGHOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. DAWSON STREET IS CHARACTERIZED BY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, INCLUDING NEW CONSTRUCTION. MOREOVER, THE SITE PLANS ADJUST THAT MORE THAN 50% OF THE LOTS WILL HAVE IMPERVIOUS COVER. UM, REP, UH, RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED. THE NEXT IS FROM EVELYN BROWN ON BEHALF OF SEVERAL NEIGHBORS IN THE NUITY HILL NEIGHBOR OR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, WE SUPPORT HP'S RECOMMENDATIONS TO NOT SUPPORT THIS CONCEPTUAL APPLICATION FOR THE REASONS STATED BY STAFF. WE ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT TO CONSIDER MASSING THAT AS MORE CONSISTENT WITH NEIGHBORING HOMES. THE FRONT FOUR DWELLING UNITS CREATES A LONG, BROAD REP REPETITIVE FACADE THAT IS NOT NORMALLY FOUND IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE BUILDING AND SITE PLAN DIMENSIONS WILL CONFIRM THIS. BOTH SIDES OF DAWSON STREET HAVE VERY CONSISTENT FRONT SETBACKS CAUSING THE FRONT, CAUSING THE PROPOSED SETBACKS TO BE VERY DISRUPTIVE. ON THE BLOCK PHASE, THE BUILDING INTENSITY IS TOO MUCH FOR THIS LOT. ALSO, WITH SO MANY DWELLING UNITS, THERE SIMPLY IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR CARS, TRASH, CANS, SHEDS, AND SO ON FOR SIX FAMILIES. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CORY, LET ME ASK YOU, THE WAY THAT THE DRAWING IS PRESENTED, IT, IT, UH, IMPLIES THAT IT'S BEEN PLATTED THIS WAY, RIGHT? 'CAUSE THOSE ARE LOT LINES. THOSE ARE NOT JUST, THOSE ARE DRAWN AS LOT LINES. AND IF THEY'RE DRAWN AS LOT LINES, THEN THEY CORRESPOND TO PLATY. IS IT PLATTED THIS WAY OR IS IT ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY WITH FOUR HOUSES ON IT? AND THE LINE JUST REPRESENTS THE DIVISION OF, UH, TERRITORY? I'LL HAVE THE APPLICANT ANSWER THAT. YES. THAT THE, THE, THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN [01:10:01] RE REPLIED. OKAY. WE BASICALLY PUTTING ONLY ONE STRUCTURE ON EACH ONE OF THE LOTS. OKAY. WELL, THAT, THAT IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT, UH, DETAIL BECAUSE THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE DON'T APPLY. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT RELEVANT, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE SAME LOTS AS THE NEIGHBORING LOTS. SO A PROBLEM HAS BEEN CREATED. BUT, BUT, BUT AT THAT PLANNING LEVEL, NOT AT THE REVIEW OF D OF H D R C LEVEL, I, I MEAN, CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW FAR BACK YOU'D HAVE TO PUSH ONE OF THESE HOUSES? BUT THE LOT HAS BEEN CUT IN HALF. SO, UH, BUT, BUT I STILL, I I, I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE VERY USEFUL, UM, AS COMMISSIONER GROUP, UH, RECOMMENDED FOR IT TO GO TO A D R C. SO IT CAN BE CONSIDERED PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS A PLATTED AS PRESENTED, UH, PRESENT, UH, APPLICATION. YES. AS A MATTER OF FACT, UH, BACK IN OCTOBER WHEN WE WERE DENIED THE FIRST TIME THE MEETING IN, IN OCTOBER, WE HAD IT, UH, IT WAS ALREADY HAD BEEN REPLANTED, BUT IT WAS NOT APPROVED BECAUSE WE HAD ACCESS DRIVEWAY ACCESS ON DAWSON. SO WE WENT BACK TO THE ENGINEER TO GET IT RE PLOTTED AGAIN, TO ELIMINATE THE ACCESSES FROM, FROM DAWSON. AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO SEND THIS TO D R C. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. COMMISSIONER GRU SECONDS THE MOTION TO SEND THIS TO D R C. UM, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS? AYE. QUEZ? AYE. AYE. CARPENTER AYE. GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN. AYE THAT SIR? AYE, AYE. MOTION CARRIES. UH, THE NEXT IS ITEM 10. UM, WE HAVE THE APPLICANT. YES. YES, GO AHEAD. ALRIGHT, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER [10. 20-7075 Address/Description: 515 BURNET ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-503 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: vernon bryant/BRC Remodeling Group Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 2] 10, CASE NUMBER 20 25 0 3 AT FIVE 15 BURNETT, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE 21 WOOD STASH WINDOWS WITH NEW WOOD WINDOWS OF THE JELLED WIND. W 2,500. PRODUCT STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO REPLACE WINDOWS NUMBER FOUR, FIVE, WHICH ARE WOOD, AND NUMBER 13, WHICH IS ALUMINUM BASED ON THE FINDING. WHILE ALL OTHER WINDOWS SHOULD BE REPAIRED IN PLACE, IF REPLACEMENT OF ANY WINDOW IT'S APPROVED, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO INSTALL THE GEL ONE W 2,500 AS PROPOSED WITH A WOOD ONE OVER ONE SLASH CONFIGURATION WITH STIPULATION THAT THE FINAL PRODUCT EXCLUDES FOUR DIVIDED LIGHTS, NAILING FINS AND FEATURES OF MATCHING CONFIGURATION FOR WINDOWS ONE OVER ONE OR TWO OVER TWO WERE APPLICABLE, AND THAT ALL WOOD WINDOW SCREENS ARE KEPT AND MAINTAINED. UH, THE APPLICANT, VERNON BRYANT, IS ONLINE VERNON, IF YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND EXPLAIN, UM, WHY YOU WANT TO REPLACE ALL THE WINDOWS. GOOD AFTERNOON, ALL. UH, MY NAME IS VERNON BRYANT. I AM THE OWNER OF B R C REMODELING GROUP. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME THIS AFTERNOON. UH, I AM REQUESTING REPLACEMENT OF ALL 21 WINDOWS, UH, FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. UH, THE VERY FIRST REASON IS EFFICIENCY. UH, OUR CLIENT WHO HIRED US TO DO THE REMODELING, THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, UH, AND JUST GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT, A BIT OF BACKGROUND REGARDING THE PROPERTY ITSELF. OUR CLIENT, UH, INHERITED FROM HER MOTHER WHO INHERITED FROM HER MOTHER. SO THIS IS A THIRD GENERATION HOME, AND OUR CLIENT IS VERY EXCITED ABOUT LIVING HERE AND, YOU KNOW, RAISING HER FAMILY HERE. THIS IS NOT AN INVESTMENT HOME. THIS IS NOT A RENTAL, AN AIRBNB OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THIS IS SOMEWHERE SHE'S GOING TO LIVE FOR A LONG TIME. WITH THAT BEING SAID, UH, AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE INITIAL DESIGN, OUR GOAL IS TO TRY TO MAKE THE HOME AS EFFICIENT AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. UH, ENERGY EFFICIENT, UH, WITH THE INSULATION, UH, YOU KNOW, INSULATION, UH, PUTTING UP INSULATION IN THE WALLS AND THE, THE CEILINGS, OF COURSE, AND THE, THE FLOOR JOISTS AS WELL. UH, AND OF COURSE, IN THE TRYING TO KEEP WITH THE THEME OF EFFICIENCY, WE DECIDED TO GO WITH NEW WINDOWS. UH, THE WINDOWS THAT, UH, WE DID PROPOSE ARE THE GEL, UH, OR LAST, UH, WHICH ARE DOUBLE PAIN, UH, IN NATURE. UH, WE HAVE NO ISSUES WITH FOLLOWING THE, UH, CONDITIONS SET FORTH REGARDING, YOU KNOW, NO NAILING FANS, ONE OVER ONE, WE'RE OKAY, UH, WITH [01:15:01] FOLLOWING THOSE GUIDELINES. UH, BUT ONCE AGAIN, FOR EFFICIENCY OF THE HOME, UH, IF WE'RE ABLE TO, OR IF WE'RE ALLOWED TO REPLACE THREE OF THE WINDOWS WITH THE JELLED WIND WINDOWS, UH, FROM AN AESTHETIC APPEARANCE STANDPOINT, THEN WHY WOULD WE NOT BE ABLE TO, UH, REPLACE ALL OF THEM FOR AN ENERGY EFFICIENT STANDPOINT? SO REALLY AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE JUST ASKING FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE THE MOST ENERGY EFFICIENT, UH, HISTORIC HOME AS WE POSSIBLY CAN FOR OUR CLIENT. AND, AND JUST TO REITERATE, THIS IS A PLACE THAT SHE PLANS ON LIVING FOR A WHILE. UM, I, MYSELF, I LIVE IN HISTORIC AREA. WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK, UH, ON A HISTORIC HOMES. AND, UH, IT'S ALWAYS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR TO SEE PEOPLE COMING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHO PLAN ON STAYING, UH, FOR A LONG TIME. SO, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND, UH, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, FEEL FREE TO ASK. UH, MR. CHAIR. I, I, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR, FOR STAFF. UM, THE, UM, THE WAY THAT THE, THE RECOMMENDATION IS SET FORTH IT TO, TO ME, IT'S PRESENTED WITH, WITH, WITH VERY STRONG CONFIDENCE, WITH RESPECT TO THE REPLACEMENT OF THE WINDOWS THAT ARE RECOMMENDED, RIGHT? THE PRODUCT ITSELF, VERY SPECIFIC, ONE OVER ONE. ALL THESE, ALL OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, GUARANTEE, RIGHT? A, A WINDOW THAT'S RESPECTFUL OF THE HISTORIC HOUSE. NOW THAT BEING SAID, UM, IF THE OBJECTIVE HERE IS ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND, AND, AND MOST DEFINITELY BUDGET IS NOT SEEN AS A HARDSHIP, UH, TO PUT A, A SUPERIOR WINDOW, UH, WHY WOULD YOUR CONFIDENCE NOT BE SHARED WITH THE WINDOWS AS A WHOLE, IF THE THIRD GENERATION HOMEOWNER WOULD PUT A SUPERIOR WINDOW THAT IS RESPECTFUL OF THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE HOUSE, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME LOOKING AT THE HOUSE AND SEEING ALL THE DIFFERENT ALTERATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE SIDING? AND, UH, UM, WHAT, UH, HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHY ENERGY EFFICIENCY IN, IN A, IN A, IN A, IN A WAY THAT, THAT UPHOLDS THE INTEGRITY IS NOT AS IMPORTANT AS AN, AS A HISTORIC WINDOW THAT WE ALL KNOW IS NOT ENERGY EFFICIENT. SURE. UM, SO BIG PICTURE, OUR, OUR SERVICE LINE GUIDELINES PRIORITIZE REPAIR OVER REPLACEMENT ALWAYS. AND SO THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENS WHEN WE CONSIDER WINDOW REPLACEMENT IS WE DO AN ASSESSMENT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S EVEN REPAIRABLE. UM, GENERALLY THE GUIDELINES RECOMMEND THAT IF SOMETHING, UM, IF THE COMPONENTS OF A WINDOW, UM, MORE THAN 50% WOULD NEED TO BE REPLACED IN ORDER TO REPAIR IT, THEN A REPLACEMENT PRODUCT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE, PROVIDED IT MEETS ADDITIONAL GUIDELINES. UM, SO WE HAVE FOUND THAT TO BE TRUE IN THREE OF THE WINDOWS, AND WE HAVE RECOMMENDED A, A REPLACEMENT THAT MEETS THE GUIDELINES. BUT, BUT NOW, BUT NOW UNDERST UH, BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF IT BEING A, I MEAN, YOU SEE THE SIZE OF THESE WINDOWS, RIGHT? THEY'RE BIG, THEY'RE, THEY'RE TALL AND THEY'RE CLEARLY INTENDED TO BE DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS, RIGHT? THEY'RE CLEAR, THEY'RE CLEARLY INTENDED TO OPERATE WITHOUT AN AIR CONDITIONER, BUT NOW THEY HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, AN AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEM, THE WINDOW AT THAT SIZE IS CLEARLY NOT ENERGY EFFICIENT. NOW, I KNOW I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT OF VINYL AND ALL THAT STUFF AND, AND THE DIFFERENT LEVELS HERE, BUT IN THIS CASE, THEY'RE PROPOSING, ARE THEY SAY PELLA? OR ACTUALLY, I ACTUALLY WASN'T DONE ANSWERING THE QUESTION. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, SO WE, WE COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE ABOUT DESIRING ENERGY EFFICIENCY. UM, WE HAVE RESOURCES ON OUR WEBSITE THAT SPEAK TO THIS SPECIFICALLY. UM, WE HAVE A DRAFT SUSTAINABILITY POLICY DOCUMENT, AS WELL AS WINDOW DOCUMENTS THAT SPEAK TO BOTH OF THESE THINGS. UH, WE KNOW THAT THE, THE PRIMARY, UH, ISSUE WITH WINDOWS IS AIR INFILTRATION. AND SO REPAIR OF EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS IS A GOOD WAY TO ADDRESS THAT. THERE ARE A LOT OF, UM, OTHER REMEDIES YOU CAN DO TO ADDRESS AIR INFILTRATION. THE OTHER ISSUE IS RADIANT ENERGY. UM, AND SO SIDES OF THE HOUSE THAT GET A LOT OF SUN, UM, DIRECT SUN ON THOSE WINDOWS, THERE ARE ALSO STRATEGIES YOU CAN IMPLEMENT TO REDUCE THE IMPACT OF HEAT GAME IN THOSE INSTANCES. SO WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THOSE BE EXPORT FIRST FOR ANY SORT OF REPLACEMENT PRODUCT AS CONSIDERED. MS. COMMISSIONER, THE, THE OTHER THING I, I WOULD ELEVATE THAT DISCUSSION UP MAYBE TO, TO TRY TO EXPLAIN THIS A BIT, IS BE WHY REPAIR IS PREFERRED IS BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO, WITHIN AN HISTORIC SETTING WITHIN HISTORIC PROPERTY, RETAIN AS MUCH OF THE AUTHENTIC MATERIAL AS IS STILL SERVICEABLE. [01:20:01] AND I THINK WHAT STAFF IS PROPOSING HERE IS, IS PRETTY DEFENSIBLE BASED UPON THE WINDOWS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT, UM, AND IS IN KEEPING WITH, WITH THE GUIDELINES THAT THEY'RE ENTRUSTED TO, TO, UH, TO, TO LAY OUT HERE. SO I, I THINK THAT'S THE UNDERLYING THING. AND WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE ALL FOR E EFFICIENCY AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT THAT'S NOT, WE, WE ARE NOT THE SUSTAINABILITY COMMITTEE RIGHT. OF A COMMISSION. WE ARE THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION. AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN CHARGED TO DO IS TO SUPPORT, UM, THESE GUIDELINES THAT PLACE PRIORITY OVER AUTHENTICITY RATHER THAN REPLACEMENT. IS THAT A MOTION COMMISSIONER CARPENTER? THAT CAN BE, UH, READ AS A MOTION? I MOVE FOR, UH, APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU BY SECOND. UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. I HAVE ONE POSSIBLE AMENDMENT TO CONSIDER, UM, IF AS THE HOMEOWNER AND CONTRACTOR GET INTO THE RESTORATION OF THE, UH, OTHER WOOD EXISTING WINDOWS, IF THEY FIND, UH, THAT DAMAGE OR DETERIORATION IS GREATER THAN WHAT IS SEEN IN THE PHOTOS, UH, THAT THE APPLICANT MAY COME BACK TO STAFF TO RECONSIDER, UH, AND STAFF COULD REVIEW AND, UH, ACCEPT IT A REPLACEMENT WINDOW, I THINK I WOULD, I THINK I WOULD RATHER HAVE IT COME BACK HERE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WHICH ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WHICH WOULD BE REPLACED AND WHICH WOULDN'T, IF THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. I, I THINK I AGREE WITH THAT. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. WELL, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT Y'ALL UNDERSTAND THE RECOMMENDATION. 'CAUSE WE ACTUALLY HAVE IDENTIFIED THE THREE WINDOWS THAT WOULD BE REPAIRED IN THIS MOTION. AND THEY'RE, THERE'S PICTURES AND THEY'RE LABELED ON THE SCREEN, SO THAT'S ONE OF THEM. RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT, UM, DID STAFF MAKE A SITE VISIT TO THIS PROPERTY? YES. STAFF, UH, MADE A SITE VISIT AND WAS ABLE TO VERIFY IN PERSON SOME OF THE FRONT, UH, RIGHT OF WAY WINDOWS. SOME IN THE BACK STAFF HAS NOT SEEN IN PERSON, BUT THERE ARE, UH, RECENT PHOTO EVIDENCE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. OKAY, THANK YOU. WHAT WE'RE PROVING IS THE REPLACEMENT, I WASN'T SURE IF THERE WAS INCLUDING ALL THE WINDOWS, BUT IF THAT'S INCLUDING ALL THE WINDOWS OF THE HOUSE, THEN IT'S FINE. WE'RE PROVING THE RE THE, THE REPLACEMENT. IT JUST SAYS THAT THERE'S SOME, UM, REMAINING SHOULD BE REPAIRED IN, IN, IN PLACE. RIGHT. AND WE'RE PROVING WITH THE, UH, STIPULATION WITH THE MATERIAL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. RIGHT. THERE'S REPLACEMENT OF THREE SPECIFIC WINDOWS WITH THE RESP BEING REPAIR FOUR, FIVE, AND 13. YEP. SO WE I UNDERSTOOD THAT AS PART OF MY MOTION. OKAY. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE FISH. OH, EXCEPT AWAY GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ NAY CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN. AYE. ZER AYE. . AYE. MOTION CARRIES. UM, [11. 20-7081 Address/Description: 120 CALLAGHAN AVE HDRC Case No.: 2020-505 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Jim Ferrell/FT Builder Sevices Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 1] NEXT IS ITEM 11. STEPHANIE, DO YOU HAVE THAT APPLICANT ON THE LINE? YES, I DO. AND DO WE HAVE WHO HAD THE OWNER ON THE LINE? GOOD AFTERNOON, NOAH. THIS IS JIM CARROLL. UM, RACHEL HAS THE OWNER ON THE LINE. RACHEL, MAKE SURE YOU, ARE YOU ON MUTE AS WELL? IS, IS MARIO THERE? YES, THIS IS MARIO. PERFECT. OKAY. WE CAN HEAR YOU BOTH. GREAT. ALL RIGHT. SO I'LL READ THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE RECORD AND THEN, UM, YOU CAN GO AHEAD, JIM. ITEM NUMBER 11, H T R C, CASE NUMBER 2020 DASH 5 0 5 ADDRESS, ONE 20 CALLAHAN AVENUE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE ALL OF THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS ON THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE WITH NEW GEL WIND WOOD WINDOWS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH E. THEIR A THROUGH C STAFF FINDS THE APPLICANT SHOULD ADHERE TO THE H D R C APPROVAL TO RESTORE OR RECONSTRUCT THE WINDOWS IN KIND DATED JAN JULY 15TH, 2020. IF H D R C FINDS THAT THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT IS APPROPRIATE, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE STANDARD STAFF STIPULATIONS APPLY AND, UM, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING A REPLACEMENT WINDOW THAT GENERALLY MEETS STAFF STIPULATIONS. SO JIM, IF YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND GIVE US A SUMMARY OF THE PROJECT. YES, MA'AM. UM, JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKSTORY, AND I KNOW TIME IS PRECIOUS HERE, SO I'LL TRY TO BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE IN THIS INSTANCE. BUT, UM, THE BACKSTORY ON THIS [01:25:01] PROPERTY IS THAT IT WAS ON FIRE, UH, LAST SUMMER OVER A YEAR AGO. AND THROUGH ALL THE PROCESSES TO GET PERMITS TO START DEMOING AND TO START REBUILDING THAT HOUSE, WE WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS AND THERE WAS, UH, WE WERE GOING, WE AGREED TO REPLACE SOME OF THE WINDOWS WITH THE HISTORIC STOCK WINDOWS. WELL, AS WE GET THROUGH THIS PROCESS, UM, MORE OF THESE WINDOWS ENDED UP COMING OUT AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE JUST NOT SALVAGEABLE. AND SO THERE IS A NEIGHBOR DIRECTLY NEXT DOOR TO THIS PROPERTY THAT IS USING, UH, THE J WIND PRODUCT THAT WAS MENTIONED. AND WE'RE SIMPLY ASKING THAT THE HOMEOWNER BE ALLOWED TO USE WHAT IS GOING TO BE NEXT DOOR IN, IN THE, UH, SPIRIT OF EFFICIENCY FOR THIS PROPERTY. THIS IS QUE QUESTION FOR STAFF ABOUT HOW MANY RE HOW MANY OF THE HISTORIC WINDOWS REMAIN PROPERTY? IS IT JUST THE ONES IN THE PHOTOGRAPH OR ARE THERE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN UN UH, UNINSTALLED AND REMAIN ON SITE? SO I WILL, UM, ANSWER AND THEN I'LL DEFER IT TO JIM BECAUSE, UM, THE, JUST TO CLARIFY THE TIMELINE OF THE PROPERTY, THOUGH, MOST OF THESE PHOTOS WERE TAKEN SHORTLY AFTER, UM, MOST OF THE EXTERIOR CAME DOWN. YOU SEE THOSE, UM, WINDOWS AT THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF OTHER WINDOWS AND OTHER FACADES THAT WERE REMOVED AND KIND OF STACKED TO THE SIDE. SO I'LL DEFER TO JIM CURRENTLY ON HOW MANY WINDOWS REMAIN ON SITE AT THIS POINT. JIM, CAN YOU CLARIFY? YES, MA'AM. SO THE TWO THAT ARE SHOWN AT THE FRONT OF THE REVEAL ARE REMAINING, AND THEN ON THE ADJACENT WALL, UM, THERE ARE FRAMES THERE, BUT THERE'S NO WINDOWS. UM, SO EFFECTIVELY THERE ARE TWO WINDOWS THAT REMAIN OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. SO THE OTHER WINDOWS THAT WE SEE, UH, KIND OF ON THE SIDE, THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE ON SLIDE. THEY'RE NOT THE, THE, THE FIRE WAS THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE. A LOT OF THE WINDOWS WERE DAMAGED, UH, VIA THE FIRE DAMAGE. AND ALSO THE FIRE, UH, FIGHTERS DAMAGED SOME OF THE WINDOWS AND THEY, THEY JUST WEREN'T SALVAGED BY, I MEAN, THERE WAS A FIRE THAT GUTTED THIS ENTIRE HOUSE. I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, WHAT REMAINS IS IS ALL THAT WAS VIABLE WOOD OF THAT HOUSE. I MEAN, IT, THE, THE FIRE WAS INSIDE THE HOUSE AND FLAMES WERE COMING OUT, THE UPPER WINDOWS UPSTAIRS AND THE NEIGHBOR BEHIND HAD A VIDEO OF FIRE COMING OUT THROUGH THREE DIFFERENT PORTALS OF THAT HOUSE FROM THE BACK. AND SO THERE, THIS IS JUST WHAT REMAINS. OKAY. UH, CAN I ADD ONE THING, JIM? I, I, I DO HAVE, UH, I BELIEVE TWO WINDOWS THAT, UH, I'VE TAKEN THAT ARE STACKED UP IN THE BACK. YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO SEE 'EM IN ALL THE PHOTOS IN ANY OF THOSE PHOTOS, BUT I, I KNOW THAT TOWARDS THE BACK WHERE I HAVE THAT SHED, UM, THAT ONE WINDOW RIGHT THERE THAT THEY BRING UP, BROUGHT UP THAT WAS PULLED OUT BACK ON THE SHED, THAT'S JUST A, A, A, A A A DOUBLE PANE WINDOW THAT WENT TO THAT ONE, UH, SIDE, WHICH IS BOARDED UP RIGHT NOW. SO THERE IS TWO, TWO OTHER WINDOWS THAT ARE IN THE BACK. THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY'RE SALVAGEABLE OR NOT, BUT YOU, YOU CAN SORT THROUGH 'EM. THEY'RE BACK THERE WITH ALL THE OLD SHIPLAP AND EVERYTHING THAT'S BACK THERE. BUT, AND, AND YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THEY'RE, UM, UH, THOSE WINDOWS ARE GONNA BE ON THE SIDE. AND AGAIN, SINCE WE'RE ASKING FOR SIMILAR WINDOWS THAT OF THE NEIGHBORS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HOPE WE'D BE ABLE TO DO. BUT THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE BACK THERE IF WE ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NEED TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEM. I'VE GOT TWO, THOSE, TWO OF THOSE WINDOWS THAT FIT THE, THE SIDE OF THE, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE, UM, THE EAST SIDE OF THE HOUSE. ARE THOSE, ARE THOSE WINDOWS THAT WE CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED? YEAH, YEAH. THOSE TWO WINDOWS RIGHT THERE, YEAH. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN PULLED OUT AND THAT THEY'RE OVER IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. OKAY. AND I HAVE QUESTION FOR STAFF ABOUT THE REMAINING WINDOWS AND THE, THE WINDOW THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SPECIFIED. DOES THE, DOES THE WINDOW THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SPECIFIED MEET OUR WINDOWS STIPULATIONS FOR, UH, REPLACEMENTS, GENERALLY SPEAKING? YES. IT'S THE SAME PRODUCT ON THE PREVIOUS CASE. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS STATED THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO REPLICATE THE TWO OVER TWO CONFIGURATION THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN RIGHT THERE, UM, WITH ITS TRUE DIVIDED LIGHT UTILIZING, UM, A CUSTOM VERSION OF THIS PRODUCT. SO WE HAVE IN OUR STIPULATIONS JUST TO ENSURE THAT THAT'S VERIFIED IN ADDITION TO STAFF, UM, STANDARD WITH THOSE STIPULATIONS. BUT THE APPLICANT IS WILLING TO RESTORE THE TWO FRONT ONES THAT REMAIN RIGHT NOW. YES. SO BASICALLY THE APPLICATION SAYS ALL THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS, [01:30:01] SO WE WOULD HAVE TO JUST AMEND THAT TO SAY ALL BUT THE THREE THAT WERE THE TWO IN THE FRONT AND THE ONE THAT'S IN THE SHED. RIGHT. YEAH, I WOULD PREFER TO HAVE ALL NEW WINDOWS, BUT IF I'M REQUIRED TO, TO REDO THE TWO THAT REMAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M WILLING TO DO THAT. I MEAN, THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL WINDOWS, BUT YEAH, I WOULD SAY SINCE THEY'RE THE FRONT WINDOWS, I WOULD PREFER THAT TOO. YEAH, I THINK THAT THE, THE LITTLE BIT OF REMAINING HISTORICAL, UH, MATERIAL HERE IS REALLY EMBODIED IN THOSE TWO WINDOWS. AND I WOULD INSIST THAT THOSE BE RESTORED AND NOT REPLACED. AS FOR THE REST OF IT, UM, FOR THE REST OF IT, IT'S, IT'S A, A BIGGER CHALLENGE GIVEN THAT SO MUCH, SO MUCH OF IT HAS BEEN LOST. UH, CAN STAFF CLARIFY ME FOR ME SPECIFICALLY THE, THE REQUEST ITEM AND THE NUMBER OF WINDOWS INVOLVED HERE? THERE, THERE ARE 14 WINDOWS TOTAL. UM, AND THEN THE TWO ON THE FRONT WOULD OBVIOUSLY MAKE A 12 TOTAL REPLACEMENT. THIS, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS A SECOND STORY TO THIS STRUCTURE. UH, DO YOU HAVE, UH, PHOTOS AND DRAWINGS OF, OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING AND, AND WHAT'S GONNA BE RECONSTRUCTED? WE ALREADY APPROVED THAT I THINK BACK IN JULY. YEAH, I'LL, YEAH, IT WAS THIS SUMMER AND, AND STAFF WORKED WITH THIS APPLICANT VERY CLOSELY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE RECONSTRUCTION PLANS WERE A VERY, VERY CLOSE MATCH FOR, BASED ON THE PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE. OKAY. THANK YOU. I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION 'CAUSE THERE'S THAT ONE WINDOW THAT YOU WERE SAYING THAT YOU FOUND IN THE SHED, AND THERE'S A WINDOW THAT WE SEE KIND OF A, UM, SET ASIDE. CAN THAT NOT BE USED TO THAT OP IN THAT OPENING? THAT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE, ON LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE. IT'S A 1 0 0 1. IS THAT THE SAME PICTURE THAT'S IN THE SHED THAT WAS SAVED? THAT'S THE SAME, UM, THAT'S THE SAME THAT'S IN THE SHED THAT'S BEEN MOVED OUT OF THERE AND, AND SEPARATED SO IT DIDN'T GET DAMAGED. WE RESTORE THE TWO FRONT ONES AND THEN USE THAT TO BE THE ONE ON THE SIDE THAT'S ON PICTURE. SLIDE 16. THERE'S, UM, DOES THE OPENING MATCH TO THAT WINDOW? UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT IS, YEAH. WELL THERE'S LIKE TWO SIDES OF THE HOMES THAT STILL EXIST. THE FRONT ONE SIDE AND THEN THE BACKSIDE, AND THERE ARE SOME OPENINGS. DOES THIS WINDOW FIT TO ANY OF THOSE OPENINGS THAT ARE ON THE REMAINING SIDES OF THE ORIGINAL SIDES OF THE HOMES THAT ARE STILL REMAINING? I, I CAN'T VERIFY THAT, UM, AT THE MOMENT, BUT I CAN FIND OUT AND IF, IF OBVIOUSLY THAT IS A, UH, MATCH FOR ONE OF OUR ROUGH OPENINGS THAT'S DESIGNED, WE CAN CERTAINLY UTILIZE THAT. IF, IF IT WOULD PLEASE THE COMMISSION. UH, I'M, WE APPROVED THE PROJECT BY, UH, WHERE WE HAD A STIPULATION TO RESTORE A WINDOW. SO I THINK YOUR PROJECT ENTAILS THE SAME OPENINGS THAT WERE THERE HISTORICALLY, OR AT LEAST WITH THE WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS. SO MAYBE WE COULD JUST PUT THAT IN STIPULATION AND THEN GO BACK TO STAFF. IF THAT'S NOT AN OPTION, I THINK IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO WORK THAT ONE WINDOW MAYBE ON THE, ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOME. BUT, UM, I MEAN, TRY TO UNDERSTAND WE'RE NOT, UM, GONNA BE ASKED TO RECOMMEND THAT THEY CREATE A WINDOW SOMEWHERE THAT DIDN'T EXIST HISTORICALLY AND PUT A WINDOW THAT IS HISTORIC IN THAT OPENING. NO, THERE'S SIZE TO THE HOME THAT STILL EXIST AND THERE'S SOME OPENINGS WITHOUT ANY WINDOWS. THERE'S TWO OPENINGS. SO THE OPENING DOESN'T, ISN'T THE EXACT SIZE OF THAT WINDOW THEN? WELL, I'M ASSUMING IT IS BECAUSE BACK THEN MOST WINDOWS WERE THE SAME SIZE. WE CAN DO A SITE VISIT. I THINK STAFF, I THINK IT WILL QUICKLY FIGURE OUT THAT IT COULD, I THINK A SLIDE 16 HAS A PICTURE. UH, MOST OF THESE HOMES HAD THE SAME SIZE WINDOW ALL OVER, BUT THE FRONT THAT LOOKS PRETTY MUCH LIKE A, SOMETHING THAT WOULDN'T BE FIT TO THAT ONE OVER ONE. YEAH, I'M, I'M THINKING THAT WINDOW AND FROM THAT BEDROOM, THE SIDE, THAT WINDOW OPENING, 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT WAS TAKEN OUT AND PLACED THERE. UM, THAT WAS, LIKE I SAID, IF THERE WAS A SIMILAR OPENING FOR THAT WINDOW SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE HOUSE THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THE FIRE. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M 99% SURE THAT WINDOW GOES INTO THAT, YOU KNOW, BEDROOM ON THE SIDE. BUT, BUT I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT'S NOT EVEN THE ORIGINAL WINDOW. NO, THAT OPENING, THAT'S NOT EVEN THE ORIGINAL WINDOW. WELL, THAT LOOK AT IT [01:35:01] LIKE THAT WAS A DOOR. I DON'T KNOW WHAT PICTURE YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE WINDOW. THAT'S THE PICTURE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. I, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS ACTUALLY, THIS IS COMMISSIONER BOWMAN. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS ACTUALLY A DOOR. IT JUST LOOKS LIKE IT WAS, UH, MORE IN LINE WITH THE SAME HEIGHT OF THE ADJACENT WINDOWS, THE, THE LONG WINDOWS. YEAH, I CONCUR WITH THAT. THIS COULD BE THAT TOO, BUT IT DEFINITELY AIN'T THAT WINDOW. JUST SAME. THERE'S THAT OPENING ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOME. I DON'T KNOW. WE CAN GO THROUGH THE PICTURES. THERE'S ANOTHER OPENING. WELL, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. I THINK WE'VE TALKED AROUND THIS AND WE KNOW THE, THE CONCERN TO REUSE, UH, RESTORE THE FRONT PORCH WINDOWS, RESTORE THE OTHER SASH WINDOWS THAT ARE ON PROPERTY AND FIT THEM INTO, UH, EXISTING HISTORIC OPENINGS. UM, IF POSSIBLE, OR IF IF THEY DON'T FIT, THEN PUT 'EM INTO, UH, THE NEW LOCATIONS ON THE RECONSTRUCTED PORTIONS. UH, UH, CHAIRMAN, I, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, BUT I THINK THE MOTION, I MEAN JUST, JUST, UH, FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE THAT IT IS, IT'S PROBABLY EASIEST AND, AND MOST REASONABLE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, APPROVES THE APPLICATION WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT ONLY WITH RESPECT TO THE FRONT WINDOWS WHERE THERE'S ABSOLUTE EVIDENCE OF THE WINDOWS AND THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE SIDES AND ALL THAT, THAT WERE SUBJECT TO THE FIRE AND THEY HAD ALL KINDS OF DAMAGE. BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT, IT IS GONNA END UP WITH A MISHMASH OF, OF, OF, OF WINDOWS WINDOW SITUATIONS WHEN IT CAN BE HOLISTICALLY A GOOD END RESULT IF ALL THE WINDOWS ARE, ARE, ARE BASICALLY NEW BECAUSE THE, THE WHOLE HOUSE LOOKS LIKE IT ALL BURNED DOWN EXCEPT FOR THE FRONT AND THAT THE FRONT, WHICH IS WHAT IS SEEN FROM THE STREET. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO, UM, KIND OF COMPLICATED. 'CAUSE I, I'M, I'M NOT NECESSARILY SURE I UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE THING, BUT, UM, TO APPROVE THE REPLACEMENT OF THE WINDOWS WITH RESPECT, UH, UH, EXCLUDING THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT FACADE OR THE PORCH FACADE. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? WELL, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT ARE STILL INTACT IN PLACE, AND WE CAN CONFIRM WHERE THEY BELONG. AND SO IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN I SECOND THAT MOTION COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THERE'S A THIRD ONE. THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHAT WE WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH. UNDERSTOOD. BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A LITTLE QUESTIONABLE AS TO WHERE THAT THIRD ONE WENT TO. UM, IT'S, IT'S HARD TO CONFIRM WHERE, WHERE THAT WENT, UM, ORIGINALLY, WELL, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR, UH, REPLACEMENT WINDOWS ON ALL OF 'EM, BUT THEY'RE FRONT TWO. UM, LET'S SEE HOW THE VOTE GOES. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? HERNANDEZ? AYE. AYE. AYE. GIBBS AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. APPROVE. AYE, BOWMAN? AYE BET, SIR. AYE, . AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. OKAY. STEPHANIE IS THE CASE MANAGER FOR THE [12. 20-7084 Address/Description: 701 E EVERGREEN HDRC Case No.: 2020-477 Historic District Name: Tobin Hill Applicant: Adam Marshall/MARSHALL ADAM & NEWLAND DEJA V Request: Front porch modifications and fenestration modifications City Council Dist.: 1] NEXT ITEM, UM, ITEM 12. SO LET'S GIVE HER ABOUT 20, 30 SECONDS TO GET THE APPLICANT ON THE LINE. AND WE DO HAVE, UH, CITIZEN COMMENTS ON THIS ONE. WE DO. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. I AM HERE WITH THE APPLICANT. GREAT. GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT. H C R C, CASE NUMBER 2020 DASH 4 7 7 ADDRESS, 7 0 1 EAST EVERGREEN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PARTIALLY ENCLOS THE FRONT PORCH. THE [01:40:01] PROPOSAL ENCLOSED THE RE INCLUDES THE REMOVAL OF TWO FRONT COLUMNS, THE RELOCATION OF TWO EXISTING WINDOWS TO A NEW EXTERIOR WALL, THE RELOCATION OF THE FRONT DOOR TO A PROPOSED SIDE ELEVATION AND THE RELOCATION OF THE PORCH, STAIRS, AND RAILINGS. STAFF DID NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A AND B, AND I HAVE THE APPLICANT ON THE LINE. ADAM, CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? HI, THIS IS ADAM MARSHALL. I'M THE HOMEOWNER. AND ADAM, CAN YOU JUST GIVE US A, UM, SUMMARY OF, OF KIND OF THE REQUEST AND, AND HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE, YOUR PROPOSAL? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. SO THE PROJECT IS TO MODIFY THE FRONT PORCH, BUILDING TWO WALLS TO ENCLOSE A PORTION OF THE PORCH TO CREATE AN ENTRYWAY ROOM. TERRA'S BEEN GIVEN TO COMPLETELY MATCH ALL MATERIALS IN EXISTING DESIGN OF THE HOUSE. UH, ORIGINAL WINDOWS WILL BE USED JUST RELOCATED. ORIGINAL TRIM WILL BE USED. THE EXISTING DOOR WILL BE USED, THE SIGNING WILL MATCH, UM, PAINT WILL MATCH THE EXISTING COLORS, AND THEN THE, THE ROOFING AND FOUNDATION WILL BE UNTOUCHED. UH, THE NEW FRONT WILL VISUALLY MATCH EXISTING DESIGN FEATURES OF THE HOUSE, UH, ON THE PHONE ELEVATION. AND SO TODAY I'M, I'M SEEKING APPROVAL FOR THIS PROJECT. OKAY. WE DO HAVE SOME CITIZEN COMMENTS, PLEASE. UM, THE FIRST COMES FROM LATI CALDER CALDERONE. UM, I'M THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR, SIX 15 EAST EVERGREEN, AND READING THE CITY STAFF'S COMMENTS, I UNDERSTAND THAT FRONT PORCHES SHOULD NOT BE ENCLOSED. HOWEVER, THIS IS A PARTIAL ENCLOSURE OF A VERY LARGE FRONT PORCH. THE RESIDENTS WILL HAVE A GOOD SIZED FRONT PORCH. UM, THE RESIDENTS WILL STILL HAVE A GOOD SIZED FRONT PORCH. THE MODIFICATIONS PROPOSED BY THE CURRENT OWNER WERE DONE WITH GREAT CARE TO MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF THE STORE DISTRICT, AND APPEARANCE OF THE FRONT AND RIGHT SIDE ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE. I GIVE MY FULL APPROVAL OF THE FRONT PORCH MODIFICATION PROPOSED BY THE CURRENT OWNER. THANK YOU. UM, THE NEXT COMES FROM PAT ZIONS, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY. UM, THEY CONCUR WITH THE O H P STAFF FOR DENIAL OF THE PROPOSED PORCH ENCLOSURE AND REORIENTATION OF THE FRONT ENTRANCE AT 7 0 1 EAST EVERGREEN COURT. HE CHANGES ALTER CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES OF THIS CONTRIBUTING CRAFTSMAN STRUCTURE THAT WOULD BE INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE FRONT, WITH THE PORCH PATTERNS FOUND ON OTHER HISTORIC CRAFTSMAN HOMES ALONG THIS PORTION OF THE STREET. UM, AND THEN ALSO WE HAVE CARRIED OVER FROM THE LAST HEARING COMMENTS FROM RICKY KUSHNER. UM, ON BEHALF OF THE TOPEN HILL COMMUNITY COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION, UM, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, UM, THEY HAVE STUDIED THE EXHIBITS PRESENTED FOR THE PORCH AND WINDOW MODIFICATIONS TO THE ONE STORY CRAFTSMAN BUNGALOW AT 7 0 1 EAST EVERGREEN AND TOBIN HILL. THE CRAFTSMAN ARCHITECTURE OF THIS HOUSE IS A SIGNATURE OF THE TOBIN HILL NEIGHBORHOOD. TO ALTER IT SUBSTANTIALLY IS A, UM, TO ALTER IT SUBSTANTIALLY IS TO DISCARD THE HOUSE'S HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL IDENTITY. THE LARGE FRONT PORCH WITH, WITH COLUMNS AND FRONT DOOR, WITH SIDELIGHTS FACING THE STREET ARE MAJOR PARTS OF THE ARCHITECTURE. WITHOUT THESE ELEMENTS, THE HOUSE PRESENTS A BLANK FACE TO THE STREET. IF MORE SPACE IS NEEDED, WE URGE THE OWNERS TO ADD IT TO A LESS VISIBLE PART OF THE HOUSE. WE FULLY SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF O H B STAFF. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION TO THIS CASE. AND THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. THANK YOU. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. UM, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT. I CAN UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO, TO MAKE FOR A MORE FUNCTIONAL ENTRY PERHAPS ON THE INTERIOR. BUT, UH, FRONT, FRONT PORCHES IN HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS ARE, ARE REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES. AND I THINK THE PROPOSAL HERE SIGNIFICANTLY, SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERS THE, UH, THE FABRIC OF THIS HOUSE. SO I THINK STAFF'S GOT IT RIGHT. AND I, I CONCUR WITH, UH, TOBIN HILL ASSOCIATION AND THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, AND, AND I MOVED, I SECOND, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER SECOND. UM, UH, UH, MR. CHAIR, I, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. YES. UH, UH, I'M, I'M HERE. I'M WONDERING, UM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY YOU WANNA ENCLOSE THIS PORCH? YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. UM, UH, THE NATURE OF HOW THE, THE HOUSE OPENS UP TO THE FRONT DOOR RIGHT NOW IS THE FRONT DOOR OPENS RIGHT INTO THE ENTRYWAY, WHICH IS WHERE THE FIREPLACE IS AT. AND SO IT MAKES IT REALLY, REALLY HARD TO HAVE ANY SORT OF CONFIGURATION OF FURNITURE THAT LETS YOU BE SET UP WHERE THE FRONT DOOR OPENS IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO YOUR COUCH HAS TO BE SO FAR AWAY THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY BE NEAR THE FIREPLACE TO ENSURE THE FRONT ENTRYWAY OF THE ROOM. OKAY. UH, THE REASON I ASK YOU IS BECAUSE THERE, THERE ARE WAYS TO, UM, CREATE A, A MORE PRIVATE SPACE, NOT A MORE PRIVATE SPACE, BUT, BUT A LESS ACCESSIBLE PORCH, UH, WITHIN, WITHIN THE SPACE OF THE PORCH THAT IS, IS THAT, THAT RESPECTS THE PORCH IN, IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T DISTURB THE PORCH OR ALTER [01:45:01] IT IN ANY PERMANENT WAY. AND, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT BUDGETS ARE, BUT SOMETIMES THEY'LL DO THIS IN REAL IMPORTANT BUILDINGS WITH GLASS. SO EVERYTHING'S THERE, YOU SEE RIGHT THROUGH IT. BUT, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S WHAT YOUR OBJECTIVE IS, IS TO CREATE A MORE, UH, UH, INACCESSIBLE SPACE THAT IT'S GOT MORE TO DO WITH THE LIVING ROOM. OKAY. I, I APPRECIATE YOU. YEAH, THANK YOU. UH, THANK YOU. ONE IDEA I HAD, UH, SORT OF LOOKING AT IT WAS, UM, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE, UM, BECAUSE THE NATURE OF HOW THIS IS SET UP, WHERE WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE TO ALTER THE ROOF OR THE, UM, STRUCTURE, REALLY, IT'S MAINLY JUST BUILDING WALLS. IF WE WERE TO LEAVE THE EXISTING COLUMNS THERE AS A DESIGN FEATURE AND BUILD THE WALL BETWEEN THEM, UH, THIS WOULD, UH, LEAVE MOST OF THE VISUAL DESIGN ELEMENTS AT THE FRONT PORCH AND THEN ALSO MAKE IT SO IT'S, UM, REVERSIBLE FOR ANYONE IN THE FUTURE TO TAKE DOWN THESE WALLS AND, AND RESTORE THE, THE PORCH TO THE SAME LOOK. WELL SEE WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM THE, FROM THE LETTERS AND FROM, UM, COMMISSIONERS, WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE IS THAT THE, THE OPPOSITION IS TO THE ALTERATION OF THE PORCH. THAT IT, IT IS JUST, AND, AND IT'S SOMETIMES, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WITH RESPECT TO BUDGET, SOME SOLUTIONS ARE JUST NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO EXPENSIVE. BUT THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE ALTERATIONS THAT ARE TRANSPARENT. BUT IF YOU'RE MOVING A WALL, IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE CLOSING THE PORCH, LIKE, IT'S LIKE A PERMANENT, UM, ALTERATION. THAT'S WHAT THE OBJECTION IS, BECAUSE THE HOUSE, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, SOMEONE COULD SAY THE HOUSE IS THE PORCH IS THE HOUSE, THE HOUSE IS THE PORCH. YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF LIKE, IT'S KINDA LIKE YOUR MOUTH, YOU KNOW, AND SEEING LIKE FROM HERE ON OUT, YOU SEW YOUR MOUTH CLOSED. I MEAN, FROM THE, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A HOUSE IS A LIVING OBJECT. RIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU. WE NEED TO MOVE, WE NEED TO MOVE ALONG HERE. AND, UH, IF THE DENIAL IS, UH, APPROVED, THEN, UM, MR. MARSHALL, YOU DO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, COME BACK WITH AN ALTERNATE, UH, PROPOSAL. SO, UM, WE DO HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND DENY ABLE TO WORK WITH THE, AM I ABLE TO MOVE TO WORK WITH THE DESIGN COMMITTEE AND SEE IF WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING? YES, WE CAN. YOU CAN SCHEDULE, UH, WITH STAFF, UH, A REVIEW FOR THE DES DESIGN, UH, WITH THE DESIGN COM, UH, COMMITTEE. AND I WOULD RECOMMEND DOING THAT, UH, PRIOR TO COMING BACK WITH, UH, A REVISED PROPOSAL. YEAH. YEAH. I, I WOULD, I WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TO DO FOR A, A, A REVISED PROPOSAL WITHOUT REGARD THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE DESIGN COMMITTEE. MR. CHAIR, IS THERE A MOTION ON THE TABLE ALREADY? YES, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR DENIAL. IF SOMEONE CARES TO REMOVE THAT MOTION, I CAN MAKE A MOTION THAT IT GOES TO DESIGN COMMITTEE. I, I THINK THAT I FEEL COMFORTABLE ABOUT THE, THE MOTION FOR THE PROPOSAL THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND IT DOESN'T AFFECT THE APPLICANT'S ABILITY TO COME TO THE DESIGN COMMITTEE. OKAY. SO MOTION A SECOND FOR DENIAL AND THE APPLICANT CAN REQUEST A D R C FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. UM, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? HERNANDEZ? AYE, FISH? AYE. GIBBS AYE. VELASQUEZ AYE. AYE. UH, CARPENTER AYE GROUP? AYE. BOWMAN? AYE BET, SIR. AYE, AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. LOOK FORWARD TO MEETING WITH YOU MR. MARSHALL. NEXT IS ITEM 13. [13. 20-7068 Address/Description: 1253 E Crockett HDRC Case No.: 2020-498 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Request: Construction of a 2-story residential structure City Council Dist.: 2 ] EDWARD, ARE YOU THERE? YES. OKAY, GO AHEAD. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 13 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 24 98 12 53 EAST CROCKETT. THIS IS THE VACANT LIGHT AT THE CORNER OF EAST CROCKETT IN NORTH MONUMENTAL. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE CONSTRUCTIVE TWO STORY RESIDENCE STRUCTURE AT THE CORNER OF EAST NORTH, MONUMENTAL IN THE DIGNITY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH R STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT A SITE PLAN AND INCLUDE THE SETBACK TO THE ADJACENT STRUCTURES ON EACH BLOCK. AND AT THE ON BOTH EAST CROCKETT AND NORTH MONUMENTAL BE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY. ON THE BLOCK IS NOTED IN FINDING D TWO, THE APPLICANT REDUCE THE OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION AND BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE HEIGHTS OF STRUCTURES FOUND HISTORICALLY. ON THE BLOCK IS NOTED IN FINDING F THREE THAT THE APPLICANT MODIFIED THE PROPOSED ROOT FORM TO FEATURE A PITCH THAT IS MORE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY IN THE DISTRICT. IS NOTED IN FINDING I FOUR THAT ALL GAINED WINDOWS BE SEPARATED BY SIX INCH MILLION AND THAT ALL CONTEMPORARILY SIZE SIX WINDOWS BE REPLACED WITH TRADITIONALLY SIZE WINDOWS IS NOTED IN FINDING K FIVE THAT ALL LAB SIDING FEATURE AND EXPOSURE [01:50:01] SIX INCHES OF SMOOTH FINISH THICK, AND THREE QUARTERS OF AN INCH IN MIRE CORNERS. COLUMNS SHOULD BE AT LEAST SIX A SQUARE WITH CAPITAL AND BASE TRIM AND CHAMPED CORNERS. UH, SIX, THAT WINDOW MATERIAL SHOULD FEATURE STAFF STANDARD FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN FINDING M AND SEVEN THAT A DETAILED LANDSCAPING PLAN BE DEVELOPED AND THAT MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT IS SCREENED FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS NOTED IN FINDING Q FINDINGS. Q AND R, THE APPLICANT. FERNANDO, ON THE LINE. HI, GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS LAN DEL LEON AND I AM THE APPLICANT FOR, FOR THE, UH, PROPOSED STRUCTURE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO CONSTRUCT AT, UH, AT THIS, UH, ADDRESS. AND RIGHT NOW, UH, THIS JUST LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A BACKGROUND. THIS STARTED, UM, WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK INTO, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, WHETHER TO GET A PLAT OR A CERTIFICATE OF DETERMINATION. AND, UH, AND WE TALKED TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. AND SINCE THIS LOT, IT'S ONLY 2100 SQUARE FEET, THEY TOLD US WE GOTTA GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND ASK FOR A VARIANCE TO THE, TO THE SIZE OF THE LOT BEING LESS THAN THE ZONING REQUIREMENT. SO, UH, WHEN WE APPLY FOR THIS FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, THAT'S WHEN H D R C, WE VIEW OUR CASE AND WE'RE GOING TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE, UM, FOR THE SIZE OF THE LOT. WE WERE STILL GONNA MEET THE SETBACKS AS PER, UM, THE ZONING, THE EXISTING ZONING THAT WE HAVE THERE, WHICH IS RMM. UH, SO WE WERE PROPOSING A 10 FOOT AT THE FRONT, 10 FOOT ON MONUMENTAL 10 FOOT FROM ADJACENT STRUCTURE TOWARDS THE REAR OF, UH, THIS LOT AND FIVE FOOT NEXT TO US, TO THE OTHER ADJACENT, UM, NEXT TO, UM, THIS STRUCTURE ON CROCKETT, ON CROCKETT STREET. SO THOSE ARE THE, THE, THE SETBACK THAT WE WERE LOOKING UNTIL, UM, UH, WE STARTED TALKING WITH, UH, H D R C STAFF AND THEY CAME BACK AND SAYS THAT WE HAD TO MEET THE SETBACKS THAT SINCE WE'RE A CORNER LOT, THAT WE HAD TO MEET THE SETBACKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET WITH ALIGNING WITH THE ADJACENT STRUCTURES. SO WHEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT THAT, UH, WE FOUND OUT THAT THE, UM, THAT THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE LOCATED ON, ON CROCKETT, IT'S APPROXIMATELY 16 FEET, UH, FROM THE, UH, FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT THE, UH, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE ON MONUMENTAL, IT'S RIGHT NOW LOCATED ABOUT 20, UH, 20 FEET FROM MONUMENTAL. SO WHEN WE DID THIS, UH, AND PUT IT ON ONE ON A, ON A PLAN VIEW, WE SAW THAT OUR HOUSE, THE PROPOSED HOUSE, WAS ONLY GONNA BE A 10 BY 30 FOOT STRUCTURE. UM, AND, UH, AND JUST TO, UM, JUST TO ADD A LITTLE BIT OF NOTE, I DID SUBMIT A SITE PLAN BACK IN NOVEMBER, UH, 17, BUT I GUESS IT DIDN'T PUT IT, IT WAS NOT SUBMITTED. I DIDN'T SEE IT ON THE PACKAGE, BUT WE DID SUBMIT A SITE PLAN ON NOVEMBER 17TH SHOWING THE, UH, THE EXISTING, THE EXISTING VACANT LOT, THE, UM, THE LOCATION OF THE STRUCTURES ALONG CROCKETT AND LOCATION OF THE STRUCTURES ALONG, UH, MONUMENTAL AND SHOWING THE SETBACKS. SO, UM, SO ONE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE REQUESTING NOW IS THE, UH, RELIEF FROM THE SETBACKS ALONG MONUMENTAL IN ORDER FOR A STRUCTURE, A NEW STRUCTURE, NOT TO BE A 10 FOOT WIDE BY 30 FOOT INLAND, MAKING IT A 340 SQUARE FOOT HOME, WHICH IS EXTREMELY SMALL. SIR, CAN I, I WANNA ASK YOU A QUESTION AS COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, SIR, DID, DID STAFF BY ANY CHANCE, UH, PROVIDE FOR YOU, UM, A A, UH, AN IN ILLUSTRATION OF HISTORIC, UH, UH, DRAWING AERIAL OF WHERE THE, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WAS LOCATED? I WENT BACK, NO, I DIDN'T GET NOTHING FROM THE CITY, BUT I DID, WENT BACK TO GOOGLE EARTH AND FOUND WHERE THAT EXISTING STRUCTURE GOING BACK LIKE FOUR YEARS AGO, AND I THINK THAT'S HOW IT WAS BURNED DOWN OR SOMETHING HAPPENED LIKE THAT. MM-HMM. , DO YOU AND THE CITY WHEN I, UM, BUT I DID FIND A, A PREVIOUS AERIAL WHERE HE SHOWED THE LOCATION OF THE HOUSE AND, AND IT WAS, UH, IT WAS ALIGNED WITH THE, UH, HOUSES ALONG, UH, CROCKETT, BUT IT WAS NOT ALIGNED WITH THE HOUSES ON MONUMENTAL. IT WAS A LOT CLOSER TO THE PROPERTY LINE ON MONUMENTAL. YEAH, IT WAS LIKE TWO FEET. WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT, WE'RE PROPOSING IT BETTER THAN THE TWO FEET THAT THE [01:55:01] HOUSE WAS, UH, SENT BACK ON MENTO. WE'RE WE'RE ASKING AT LEAST FOR MINIMUM, UH, AT LEAST 10 FEET. OKAY. NOW ON STAFF, YOU'RE ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS. DID YOU TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION? STAFF HAVE TO GO BY GUIDELINES. SO STAFF HAVE TO GO BY GUIDELINES. WE REVIEWED THIS. NO, NO. WAIT, WAIT A MINUTE. I I I'M TALKING TO STAFF. YOU'RE INTERRUPTING. I'M TALKING STAFF. WELL, WE REVIEW THIS HONORARY. PLEASE. LET ME JUST, LET ME JUST GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER FROM STAFF. I, I RESPECTFULLY, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I I DON'T MEAN YOU ANY DISRESPECT, UH, UH, THE, THE, THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS I WOULD THINK WOULD HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION YOUR KNOWLEDGE. YEAH, I MEAN, HE'S ALREADY, WE ALREADY KNOW HE IS GONNA NEED A VARIANCE FOR THE SITE JUST BECAUSE OF THE, THE TIGHT CONSTRAINTS. OKAY. SO WE ARE RECOMMENDING SOMETHING THAT IS IN KEEPING WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES. THAT IS, THAT COULD WORK. IT WOULD STILL NEED A VARIANCE REGARDLESS. IT'S JUST IN ORDER TO INFORM THAT VARIANCE PROCESS, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS LOOKING FOR A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE PROPOSAL FROM THIS COMMISSION. I UNDERSTAND, BUT, BUT THE, BUT THE, I WOULD THINK THE RECOMMENDATION WOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IF WE HAD OTHER PROJECTS WHERE YOU BRING IN SANDBORN MAPS AND YOU SHOW, AND, AND IF IT'S CONVENIENT OR IF IT WORKS WITH WHATEVER IT IS WE'RE DISCUSSING, THEY'RE THERE. THIS, WE DON'T HAVE THAT. WE CERTAINLY THINK SOMETHING SHOULD BE THERE. WE CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SIDE SETBACK, UH, DIMENSION IS ON THE HISTORIC PROPERTY, BUT YOU CAN SEE FROM THE HISTORIC IMAGERY THAT THE FRONT SETBACKS ARE GENERALLY ALIGNED, SO RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT, BUT, BUT THE, BUT THE, BUT THE GENTLEMAN'S PRESENTING, BUT REALLY HAS TO DO WITH THE SIDE SETBACK. AND THAT'S THE DISCUSSION THAT WE'RE HAVING ABOUT THE SIDE SETBACK, THE FRONT SETBACK. HE'S SAYING THAT, THAT HE, THAT THEY COULD DO THAT, BUT WHEN YOU DO THAT AND THEN YOU HAVE THE SIDE SETBACK, YOU END UP WITH A 10 FOOT BUILDING. AND, AND I'M ONLY SAYING THAT WITH RESPECT TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT WE SPEND OVER HERE LOOKING AT THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO GET THERE WHEN THE REALITY IS WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GET THERE. THAT DATA COULD BE THERE. UM, AND, AND I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO, UH, PUT ANYBODY IN THEIR PLACE JUST FOR THE FUTURE. I THINK IT'S A PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA TO ALSO INCORPORATE WHAT KNOWLEDGE WE HAVE OF THE SITE SO THAT WHEN, WHEN SOMEBODY ASKS US, WE DON'T SPEND A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIVE AND 10 OR 10 AND 15 FEET, WHEN THE REALITY IS THE BUILDING WAS APPROXIMATELY TWO FEET FROM THE SIDE. AND IT MAY NOT GO WITH THE GUIDELINE, BUT THE GUIDELINE HAS TO RESPECT THE EXISTING OR THE KNOWN FABRIC OF THE URBAN, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, REALITY THERE. SO, UM, I, I, I APPRECIATE THE ANSWER, SIR. AND, AND COREY, I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER AS WELL. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. WE REVIEWED THIS IN DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, AND WE DID AGREE WITH THE APPLICANT. THAT IS THE ONLY SOLUTION FOR THIS LOT. AND I AGREE YOU WOULD GO AGAINST THE GUIDELINES ON MONUMENTAL, BUT THAT'S WHY THIS CASE IS BEFORE US. AND WE DID GO BACK AND FORTH WITH THE APPLICANT ALSO FURTHERMORE, INTO THE DESIGN. UM, SO THE APPLICANT'S MORE FOCUSED ON JUST THE, THE SITE PLAN, AND THEN I GUESS THE APPLICANT THEN WILL TALK ABOUT, I MEAN, I WOULDN'T MIND DOING A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATIONS. JUST BEAR IN MIND THAT WE DISCUSSED SOME OF THE DESIGN OF THE TWO STORY WE DISCUSSED, MASSING, ET CETERA. WE, BUT AGAIN, AT THE SITE PLAN, HE NEEDS THE VARIANCE FOR TO REALLY MOVE FORWARD. UM, WHATEVER WAS THERE. HE HISTORICALLY, HE IS ALIGNING THE HOUSE WITH THE STEPS THAT ARE STILL EXISTING, AND MY STAFF CAN PULL UP SOME PICTURES. THERE WAS SOME STEPS, CONCRETE STEPS, AND A CONCRETE DRIVEWAY. THOSE ARE NOT BEING MOVED OR THOSE ARE NOT BEING REMOVED. SO IT'S REALLY ALIGNING THAT, UM, WHATEVER WAS THERE HISTORICALLY PROBABLY DIDN'T HAVE THE FIVE FEET SETBACK ON THE WEST SIDE, AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHY THAT HOUSE WAS A LOT BIGGER. UH, BEFORE WE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION, UH, DO WE HAVE, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS? WE DO. UM, THE FIRST COMES FROM EVELYN BROWN ON BEHALF OF SEVERAL, ACTUALLY, IT'S THE ONLY ONE, UH, ON SEVERAL NEIGHBORS, UH, FROM THE DIGNITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD. WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS CONSIDERING THE CONTEXT AREA OF THE BLOCK FACE. THE PROPOSED HIDE AND MASSING ARE DISRUPTIVE AMONG THE SMALL ONE-STORY HOUSES, AN ACCURATE INACCURATE SCALE SECTION OF THE BLOCK FACE ALONG EAST CROCKETT WILL SHOW THE PROPOSED STRUCTURES RELATIONSHIP TO THE NEIGHBORING HOUSES, TO THE POINT OF MATERIALS, STAFF STIPULATIONS INCLUDE A THREE-QUARTER INCH COMPOSITE SIDING AND MIRED CORNERS, WHICH CONCERNS US SINCE THESE ARE ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS, NOT COMMON IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THAT'S IT. OKAY, THANK YOU. I I'D LIKE TO ASK THE, THE, THE APPLICANT QUESTION, UH, LOOKING AT THE ELEVATION, THE, THE WIND, THE, THE DRAWINGS DON'T, UH, TO ME APPEAR TO BE, YOU KNOW, DETAILED DRAWINGS, RIGHT? SO, SO THE WAY THE WINDOW IS SET IN, I'M, I'M WONDERING IF YOUR INTENTION IS TO HAVE A, A ONE BY SIX OR ONE BY EIGHT BETWEEN THOSE WINDOWS, OR WHAT IS YOUR INTENTION TO HAVE SIDING BETWEEN THOSE WINDOWS? WINDOWS? BECAUSE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ARE FOR THE WINDOWS TO HAVE A, [02:00:01] A, A JOINER, UH, BOARD BETWEEN EACH WINDOW. WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR INTENT? ARE THOSE DRAWINGS JUST NOT JUST NOT COMPLETELY ACCURATE? THAT IS CORRECT, SIR. THIS DRAWINGS WAS JUST TO SUBMIT THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE, UH, WE DID 'EM PRETTY QUICK AS, AS, UM, WE WERE TOLD THAT YOU, WE NEEDED SOMETHING TO SUBMIT TO THE H D R C TOOL TO SEE, UH, WE, UH, WE ARE NOT OPPOSED TO THE, UH, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS BY STAFF TO, TO MAKE THE WINDOWS, THE PORCHES BY FEET, ALL THAT. WE WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. AND WE COULD RESUBMIT A DRAWING THAT WHEN WE, WHEN WE, WHEN WE HIRE THE ARCHITECT TO, UH, DESIGN IT IN ACCORDANCE TO THE GUIDELINES. UH, SO YES, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO IT FOR THAT RIGHT NOW. UH, WE JUST ASKING FOR THE RELIEF FOR THE SETBACK, MR. THINK, MR. THINK WE TALKED ABOUT, I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIR. WITH, WITH THAT, WITH THAT, I, I'D LIKE TO MOTION FOR A, A, UM, UH, UH, FOR A APPRO APPROVAL OF, UM, HIS CONCEPTUAL, UH, WITH, UH, EXCLUDING, UH, THE, THE ITEM RELATED TO SETBACK AND MONUMENTAL AND, AND TO ALLOW THAT SETBACK TO BE SET WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. UH, BECAUSE IF HISTORICALLY IT WAS TWO FEET, IT WAS TWO FEET. NOW I KNOW THERE'S NOT SUCH THING AS A TWO FOOT SETBACK, SO HE'S GONNA HAVE TO MEET, UH, THE MODERN SETBACK RIGHT. REQUIREMENTS. BUT WITH RESPECT TO WHAT'S HISTORIC, I MEAN, HE'S GOT IMAGES AND WE, WE HAD A CASE LIKE THIS NOT SO LONG AGO, SO I WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO, TO APPROVE THIS CONCEPTUAL, UH, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, EXCLUDING ANY REFERENCE TO MONUMENTAL STREET AND SETBACKS COMMISSIONER, CAN, CAN I OFFER A FRIENDLY AMIN AMENDMENT? YES, THE APPLICANT HAS INCLUDED A SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS SETBACK PROPOSED ON MONUMENT AND, UH, THE OTHER STREET AS WELL. I THINK IT MIGHT HELP WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS IF THAT DRAWING IS WHAT IS USED, UH, FOR THIS RECOMMENDATION. IT TAKES SOME AMBIGUITY OUT OF IT. UM, AND I'D ALSO, UH, UH, PUT FORWARD ONE OF THE COMMENTS FROM THE COMMUNITY. UH, I THINK THIS IS RELATED TO STIPULATE STIPULATION FIVE ABOUT THE REMOVAL OF THE, THE COMMENT ON THE MITRE CORNERS. I, I, UH, UH, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT AND, AND, AND COM AND, UH, AGREE COMPLETELY. UM, AND SO I, I AMEND MY, UH, MOTION TO INCLUDE COMMENTS BY, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. I SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND. HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS NAY. VELAZQUEZ AYE. CARPENTER AYE. GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN. AYE. BETTS. NAYYY. LIFO AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. OKAY. ITEM [14. 20-7070 Address/Description: 819 LAMAR ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-499 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: michael cisneros/rae Mateo Group Inc dba Harmony Custom Homes Request: Construction of a 1-story residential structure City Council Dist.: 2] 14. UM, WHO IS THAT? AND THAT ONE'S EDWARD TWO. LET'S GIVE HIM A SECOND TO GET THE NEW APPLICANT. AND WE HAVE, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS ONE AS WELL. YES, SIR. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 14, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 24 9 9 8 19. LAMAR, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A ONE STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT LOT AT EIGHT 19. LAMAR LOCATED WITHIN THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS EIGHT THROUGH Q. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL. ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION NOTING THAT THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION WILL FEATURE A SETBACK THAT IS EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE BLOCK. TWO, THAT WOULD, OR COMPOSITION SIDING IS APPROPRIATE FOR. THAT FEATURES A FOUR INCH EXPOSURE WITH MIRE CORNERS AND A SMOOTH FINISH AS USE COLUMN. DETAILS SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO [02:05:01] STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. PROPOSED BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING SHOULD BE ELIMINATED AND THE PROPOSED SIDING SHOULD NOT, SHOULD FEATURE NO CHANGES IN PROFILES ON ONE ELEVATION COLUMN SHOULD FEATURE AN APPROPRIATE DIMENSION. 15 INCHES IS NOT ARCHITECTURALLY APPROPRIATE. THREE, THAT WINDOWS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND CONSTRUCTION BE INSTALLED AS NOTED IN FILING K AND IN THE APPLICABLE CITATION. AND FOUR, THAT FENESTRATION BE ADDED TO BLANK WALLS ON THE EAST AND WEST ELEVATIONS, AND THAT WINDOWS BE GROUPED AND DETAILED CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE BLOCK. WINDOWS SHOULD BE SEPARATED BY A MILLION OF SIX INCHES IN WIDTH AND SHOULD FEATURE SIZES AND PROFILES THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE BLOCKING DISTRICT. THERE ARE TWO COMMENTS IN REGARDS TO A FOUNDATION INSPECTION THAT IS REQUIRED AS WELL AS THE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF, UH, INSPECTION IF THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STAINING, SOME METAL ROOF. UH, I HAVE THE APPLICANT, UH, MR. MICHAEL CISNEROS ON THE LINE NOW. UM, GOOD EVENING, AND, UH, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. MY, MY NAME IS MIKE BIROS. I'M, UM, I'M A SMALL HOME BUILDER, UM, WITH HARMONY CUSTOM HOMES. UM, AND THANKS FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. I, UM, UM, WANTED JUST TO, FIRST OF ALL, I RECOGNIZE A LOT OF YOUR FACES FROM THE SEVERAL D R C UH, MEETINGS THAT I'VE HAD WITH Y'ALL AND HAS NOT BEEN BECAUSE I HAVE NOT, UM, UM, DIDN'T WANT TO DO CERTAIN THINGS OR RECOMMENDATIONS OR COMMENTS THAT YOU GUYS, UM, WERE REQUESTING OR RECOMMENDING. BUT IT WAS A LOT, A LOT OF IT BASED ON JUST NOT UNDERSTANDING THE PROCESS. AND JUST BEAR WITH ME, AGAIN, I'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THIS SINCE JANUARY, I THINK THE OWNER IS PRETTY FRUSTRATED WITH ME, AND I THINK PROBABLY, I DON'T KNOW, AFTER TODAY, I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S GONNA WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS BUILDING, UM, WITH ME, IF ANYTHING. UM, SO AGAIN, JUST BEAR WITH ME WITH THE, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING OF SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE COMMENTS. AND SO I'VE BEEN, UH, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THEM. UM, AND, AND WHAT I'VE DONE, UH, STARTING SINCE JANUARY, FEBRUARY, I GUESS IS WHEN EDWARD AND I GOT TOGETHER WAS WE STARTED OUT, FIRST OF ALL WITH A TWO STORY. UM, AND I WENT BACK, UM, WASN'T RECOMMENDED THAT WE NEEDED TO STAY WITHIN THE REALM OF, OF WHAT WAS IN THAT AREA. SO WE CHANGED THE TOOL, THE STORY. UM, I'VE DONE PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING THAT, THAT YOU GUYS HAVE RECOMMENDED ME TO DO. AND, UM, WITH, WITH SOME OF THE, THE THINGS THAT I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND. UM, I DO NOW, UM, SUBMITTED SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE, ON THE, ON THE WINDOWS. I THINK, UH, I GOT THAT, LEMME GO BACK THROUGH THIS HERE. AND THE WINDOW FACING THE EAST AND THE WEST. UM, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT NOW, NOW THAT IT WAS HIGHLIGHTED TO ME AND, AND SHOWN TO ME, UM, WHAT THAT MEANS. UM, SO I'VE ADJUSTED THOSE WINDOWS AND MADE 'EM, UH, TO TWO, SIX, UH, FIVE OHS, I BELIEVE IS WHAT'S ON THE PLAN. I CAN'T REALLY SEE THAT HERE. BUT, UM, WE'VE ALSO ELIMINATED THE BOARD AND BATTEN, UH, IN ONE OF THE D R C MEETINGS, I'VE ELIMINATED, UM, OF COURSE THE SEPARATION OF WINDOWS. I ADDED THAT, UM, THE DORMER. UM, SO I'VE DONE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDED AND COMMENTS. AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT BECAUSE I HAVE NOT WANTED TO DO IT, IT'S JUST, JUST A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. UM, THE, THE LAST THING, UM, OR ONE OF THE THINGS ALSO WAS THE SETBACKS. AND, AND, AND AFTER I GOT A, A SKETCH FROM EDWARD D UM, A FEW WEEKS AGO, I UNDERSTOOD EXACTLY NOW WHAT, WHAT WE NEEDED AS FAR AS THE SETBACKS WERE. SO I FINALLY GOT IN AND, AND, AND DID THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THAT ED EDWARD, IF YOU WERE ABLE TO BRING THAT UP OR NOT, BUT I DID TAKE A, A, A SCHEMATIC OR A, A A A DIAGRAM OF ALL THE ADJACENT HOUSES, UM, TWO TO THE LEFT AND THREE TO THE RIGHT AND MEASURED EACH ONE. UM, AND, AND I, I AM NOT UNDERSTANDING EXACTLY, I THOUGHT WE HAD TO KIND OF BE WITHIN THE SAME SETBACKS OF THAT HOUSE. AND I WAS THAT ORIGINALLY, BUT, UM, I MEAN, I'LL DO WHATEVER I NEED TO DO. I THINK STARTING WITH EIGHT 11, LAMAR WAS AT 32 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. EIGHT 15. LAMAR, UH, WAS AT 34 FEET, EIGHT 19, WHICH WAS MINE. I HAD IT ORIGINALLY AT THE 30. UM, AND SO WE MOVED IT BACK TO 21 'CAUSE I, AGAIN, NOT UNDERSTANDING EXACTLY WHERE I NEEDED TO BE. UM, 8 27 TO THE RIGHT OF MY PROPERTY, UH, WAS 30 FEET, 8 31 TO THE RIGHT OF THAT PROPERTY WAS 32. AND THEN THE LAST, UH, ONE THAT I TOOK WAS 54 FEET. SO I CAN, AND, AND I CAN, I CAN SPEAK TO THAT, MR. CISNEROS, UH, THAT THE DOCUMENT WE RECEIVED, WHY IT'S NOT IN THE PACKET IS BECAUSE IT WAS RECEIVED PAST OUR UPLOADING DEADLINE. UH, BUT [02:10:01] TO THE, TO THAT POINT, YOU NOTING THE SETBACKS, THE 32, 34, 30, 32, AND THEN THERE'S ONE THAT'S MUCH LARGER, MUCH DEEPER, THAT'S 54, UM, A, A SETBACK THAT IT, IT IS ESSENTIALLY DEEPER THAN THE 34 AND 32 AND 30 THAT'S FOUND. SO MM-HMM. , A 35 FOOT SETBACK OR 36 WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. UM, AND THAT THEN BY YES, SIR. AND THAT ALLUDING TO THE CASE COMMENT, UH, WE ACTUALLY COME ON SITE AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT YOUR SETBACK IS CONSISTENT. UH, IF IT'S NOT DEEP ENOUGH, THEN WE'LL SIMPLY ASK YOU TO MOVE IT BACK INTO ANOTHER SITE. EDWARD, EDWARD, THIS IS COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ. IS IT POSSIBLE, EDWARD, THAT YOU COULD, THAT YOU COULD TELL US WHAT HAS BEEN, UM, ACHIEVED WITH RESPECT TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS? BECAUSE, AND I, AND I, I COMPLETELY, UH, RESPECT THE, THE APPLICANT'S, UH, EFFORT, UH, TO, TO, UH, UH, MANEUVER THROUGH THE COMPLEXITIES OF, UH, CITY CODE. AND SIR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WORKING SO HARD ON, UM, ON, ON THIS PROJECT OF YOURS. BUT IT, IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO US TO, TO, TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PRESENTATION YOU'RE MAKING, THE DRAWINGS THAT ARE BEFORE US AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. BECAUSE BETWEEN THE THREE, IT'S HARD TO TELL WHERE THE PROJECT IS. I THINK I COULD PROBABLY, UH, GO THROUGH THE RECOMMENDATIONS QUICKLY. WE, IF YOU COULD GO TO PAGE 12 WITH THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS. UH, SO IT, IT, ALL IN ALL, THERE'S, I'D SAY THREE MAIN THINGS THAT WOULD PREVENT STAFF FROM RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. AND MR. CISNEROS HAS BEEN WORKING TO UPDATE THESE. SO, UH, ESSENTIALLY IT'S THE SETBACK IN A DOCUMENT THAT CONFIRMS THE STAFF THAT THE SETBACK IS GONNA BE GREATER THAN WHAT'S ESTABLISHED HISTORICALLY ON THE BLOCK, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY TOUCHED BASE ON, AND I BELIEVE THAT MR. CISNEROS IS IN AGREEMENT WITH. THE SECOND WOULD BE, UM, IF WE CAN START WITH THE REAR ELEVATION, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S NOT MAJOR CONCERNS FROM STAFF, BUT THE REAR ELEVATION, THE FRONT ELEVATION, UH, MR. CISNEROS HAS UPDATED THAT TO WHERE IT'S GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT, WHAT THE GUIDELINES WOULD CALL FOR. UM, THERE'S JUST A COMMENT, ONE COMMENT ON THE WIDTH OF THE COLUMNS, THE WIDTH OF THE COLUMNS, I CAN'T REMEMBER OFFHAND WHAT THEY WERE, BUT THEY WERE MAYBE 11 INCHES OR 13 INCHES. UH, ESSENTIALLY STAFF IS ASKING FOR AN ARCHITECTURALLY MORE APPROPRIATE COLUMN. AND THAT'S SOMETHING CERTAINLY THAT STAFF COULD, UH, WORK WITH MR. CISNEROS ON. INEVITABLY HE WOULD NEED TO PROVIDE THAT DETAIL. UM, BUT, BUT WE COULD CERTAINLY WORK WITH HIM. AND A COLUMN DETAIL IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, IS TRIMMED OUT AT A LATER STAGE. SO IT'S NOT AS, AS MUCH OF A LARGER ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT IS, SAY THE WINDOW OPENINGS LIKE I'LL MOVE TO NOW. UM, ON THE LEFT ELEVATION, THERE'S PRIMARILY TWO WINDOW OPENINGS THAT ARE INCONSISTENT THAT STAFF HAS NOTED TO BE ADDRESSED. THAT'S THE LARGE PICTURE WINDOW. AND THEN THE TWO SMALLER, UH, RECTANGULAR CONTEMPORARILY SIZED WINDOWS. UM, ESSENTIALLY IF, UH, WINDOWS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT'S FOUND, UM, TO THE, TO THE, I GUESS THIS WOULD BE THE NORTH TO THE NORTH OF THE LARGE PICTURE WINDOW WERE INSTALLED THERE, UH, STAFF WOULD FIND THAT TO BE MORE APPROPRIATE. GENERALLY, WE, WE WOULD WANT A TRADITIONALLY SIZED WINDOW, UH, TO BE LOCATED IN THAT PROMINENT LOCATION. UH, AND THEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE RIGHT ELEVATION, THE SAME GENERAL COMMENT, UM, THE LARGER WINDOWS THAT ARE BENEATH THE GABLE ON THE RIGHT EL ELEVATION ARE APPROPRIATELY SIZED. UM, OBVIOUSLY YOU WOULD WANT EQUALLY DIMENSION, TOP AND BOTTOM SASHES. UH, BUT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, I UNDERSTAND MR. CISNEROS, THAT, UM, TYPICALLY WHEN YOU'RE DESIGNING A HOUSE THAT YOU WANT, UM, SMALLER WINDOWS ABOVE CABINETS OR ABOVE THE SINKS AND IN BATHROOMS, UH, BUT, UM, OBVIOUSLY WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES, THIS IS FOCUSING ON, UM, DESIGN AS IT DISPUTE FROM THE EXTERIOR RATHER THAN DESIGNING FROM THEAND. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT EXACTLY, AND I'M, I'M GETTING, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE PROCESS, BUT I DID COMMIT A REVISIONS TO THAT. I UNDERSTAND THAT MAYBE I DIDN'T MAKE THE DEADLINE, BUT I DID ADJUST THOSE WINDOWS. THE ONLY ONE THAT I HAVE NOT ADJUSTED, AND THAT'S BECAUSE MY ARCHITECT FORGOT, BUT WE'RE ELIMINATING THE WINDOW PICTURE WINDOW IN THE, THE 4 0 4 OH WINDOW OVER THE BATHTUB. UM, JUST BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE CAN PUT THERE THAT'S GONNA BE OVER A TUB THAT'S GONNA BE SUFFICIENT ENOUGH, UNLESS IT'S A UP HIGH WINDOW. UM, OKAY. SO, SO THEN, UH, UM, EDWARD, WITH RESPECT TO ALL OF THAT, IS IT SAFE TO SAY THAT THIS IS A PROJECT THAT HAS MOVED DISTANCE AND THAT IT'S READY TO BE TURNED OVER TO STAFF, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE DRAWINGS THAT WE DON'T HAVE, BUT, UH, SIR, YOUR COMMENTS ON THE RECORD, SO I THINK WE CAN TRUST THAT YOU'VE MADE THE ALTERATIONS TO REMOVE THE PICTURE WINDOW AND THE OTHER WINDOWS. UM, WOULD, WOULD YOU THINK, EDWARD, THAT IT, THAT IT'S MOVED, MOVED TO THAT POINT? [02:15:01] UH, I, I WOULD SAY IF THE COMMENTS THAT ARE LEFT THAT STAFF IS ADDRESSING, IF, IF THOSE COMMENTS ARE FULLY ADDRESSED, THEN STAFF COULD CERTAINLY WORK WITH THE APPLICANT. UM, THE, AS THE DESIGN IS NOW, THE MASSING AND HEIGHT IN GENERAL, ARCHITECTURAL FORM IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES, UH, STAFF COULD CERTAINLY HELP THE APPLICANT AND WORK WITH THE APPLICANT ON ADJUSTING THOSE SMALL DETAILS. UM, THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S DONE AT A STAFF LEVEL. AND, UH, IN MANY CASES WHEN, UH, WHETHER IT BE NEW CONSTRUCTION OR AN ADDITION OR WHATEVER IS APPROVED WITH THE STAFF STIPULATION, ONCE IT'S TURNED OVER TO STAFF, THERE WILL BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR STAFF TO MEET WITH THE APPLICANT, UH, TO DISCUSS FINE DETAILS IN THE APPLICANT, TO SUBMIT THOSE TO STAFF SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THE GUIDELINES ARE MET. UH, SO I, I GUESS TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IF THE APPLICANT, UM, IS GOING TO AGREE TO MEET ALL OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT ARE LEFT, THEN YES, STAFF COULD WORK WITH THE APPLICANT ON ADDRESSING THOSE AND, AND IN OTHER, UH, THANKS FOR THAT. BUT I DO, I MEAN, I DO AGREE AND I, I THINK I'VE HOPEFULLY HAVE, HAVE SHOWN THAT SINCE FEBRUARY, AND I APOLOGIZE AGAIN. IT'S NOT FOR ANYTHING THAT, THAT, UM, I DID NOT WANT TO DO. IT WAS JUST THAT I DID NOT UNDERSTAND. SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. WELL, AND SIR, I I, MY FIRST HISTORIC PROJECT THAT I'M GOING THROUGH, WELL, I WANNA REITERATE THAT, THAT REALLY IT IS JUST, IT'S VERY HARD AND YOUR EFFORT IS VERY CLEAR AND YOU, YOU SHOULD BE, YOU'RE TO BE COMMENDED FOR, UH, THE SOMERSAULTS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO UNDERSTAND, UH, THE, THE, THE MYRIAD OF RE REQUIREMENTS AND POSSIBILITIES. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PUTTING ALL THAT HARD WORK IN. BEFORE, BEFORE WE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION, WE DO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS. AH, YEAH. AND I ALSO JUST WANTED TO ADD, UM, IF THERE WAS COMFORT WITH THE STIPULATIONS, UM, BUT NOT COMFORT WITH NOT SEEING THE DESIGN RESPONSE TO THE STIPULATIONS, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE REVIEWED, UM, AT A D R C OR A FUTURE FUTURE HEARING, IF THAT WAS PART OF THE MOTION. UM, SO, UH, VERSUS FROM PATTY ZIONS, UH, PRESIDENT OF THE KING WILLIAMS ASSOCIATION, OH, SORRY, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, UM, THEY CONCUR WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DENIAL OF CONCEPTUAL APPRO, OH, I'M SORRY. I'M ON THE WRONG ONE. THIS IS A 19 LAMAR, RIGHT? YES, IT IS. IT IS 19 LAMAR, SORRY, MY NOTES ARE JUMBLED. OKAY. UM, THEY CONCUR WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DENIAL OF CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. WE APPRECIATE THAT THE APPLICANT IS WILLING TO INCORPORATE SUGGESTIONS INTO THE DESIGN. HOWEVER, THE PROPOSED SCALE OF THE REAR ROOF FORM FENESTRATION PATTERN AND FRONT PORCH DETAILING ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, THE NEXT COMES FROM EVELYN BROWN, UM, ON BEHALF OF SEVERAL NEIGHBORS. UM, WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. THE FRONT FACADE FEATURES THAT ARE ODD ARE THE FRONT DOOR AND WINDOW DIMENSIONS. THEY APPEAR PROPORTIONAL TO THE HOUSE FOUND IN THE AREA, BUT THE SCALE IS EXAGGERATED RELATIVE TO THE 10 FOOT WALL PLATE HEIGHT. AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE. OKAY. THANK YOU. THIS IS COMMISSIONER YOUR HONOR. COULD I, OH, GO AHEAD. SORRY. WELL, I, I, I MEAN, I FEEL COMFORTABLE THAT, THAT, UH, THESE, THESE DETAILS CAN BE SORTED OUT WITH AN STIPULATION. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS MAY COMMISSIONER VELASQUE SECOND. YEAH, I A MOTION MS. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. CAN I, CAN I ASK, UH, FOR A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THAT, TO SAY THAT, UM, THE APPLICANT ATTEND D R C, UH, WITH STAFF AND, AND D R C COMMITTEE MEMBERS WITH THEIR, THEIR LATEST DOCUMENTS TO, UH, PLAN A PATH FORWARD FOR THEIR FINAL APPROVAL? I THINK THIS, THIS WOULD BE FOR FINAL APPROVAL. AND, AND SAME HERE. SECOND, WE FOLLOW THAT AS WELL. SO THE D R C SEEMS TO BE VERY IMPORTANT AS WELL. SO, COMMISSIONER, FISH, COMMISSIONER FISH, YOUR REC, YOU'VE MADE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. YES. I, I, I, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT SURE THAT AN AMENDMENT LIKE THAT WOULD, WOULD BE APPROPRIATE ON A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. UM, I KNOW THAT THAT, UH, CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL MIGHT BE MORE APPROPRIATE IN THAT CONTEXT. AND, UH, I KNOW WE HAVE A MOTION IN A SECOND, SO PERHAPS WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD TAKE THIS UP AND IF IT FAILS, WE CAN DO A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. D R C. WELL, AND IN, IN, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PART OF THE REASON WHY WE'RE VERY COMFORTABLE SECONDING THAT MOTION THE WAY THAT IT IS, IS BECAUSE, UM, THERE'S, THERE'S A, IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT ISN'T NECESSARILY, UH, HERE IN THIS MEETING, BUT BETWEEN THE, UH, COMMENTS FROM STAFF AND THE COMMENTS FROM THIS APPLICANT, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'VE BEEN WORKING AND THEY'VE WORKED OUT A LOT ALREADY AND THEY'RE READY TO MOVE FORWARD. UH, I THINK SO. WE HAVE ON A SECOND FOR [02:20:01] A CER APPROVAL OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS NAY VELASQUEZ AYE. CARPENTER AYE GROUP. AYE. ROMAN AYE. FETZER. AYE. LIFA AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. UH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. I'M GONNA CALL FOR A FIVE MINUTES BREAK. CAN YOU NEXT WEEK? OKAY. WE WILL RE RECONVENE IN FIVE MINUTES. THANK YOU. WE CAN PAUSE. [15. 20-7071 Address/Description: 1714 S ST MARYS ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-500 RIO District: RIO-4 Applicant: KRIS FELDMANN/Creoarc, LLC Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 1] 15. WE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 15, CASE NUMBER 20 2500 AT 1714 SOUTH ST. MARY'S, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE 48 WOOD SLASH WINDOWS WITH NEW COMPOSITE WINDOWS ANDERSON FIBER, OR AN ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW. APPLIED G MIRA STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF WINDOW REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDING C THROUGH E. WITH THIS STIPULATION THAT THE REPLACEMENT PRODUCT FEATURES A FULLY WOOD WINDOW THAT ADHERES TO ALL STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WOOD WINDOW REPLACEMENT, INSTEAD OF THE TWO COMPOSITE OR CLOUD PRODUCTS SUBMITTED, THE REVISED WINDOW PRODUCT MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR VERIFICATION PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. I DO HAVE THE APPLICANT, CHRIS FELDMAN ON THE LINE. CHRIS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND, UH, EXPLAIN WHY YOU CHOSE THE TWO PRODUCTS. HI, GOOD EVENING. THIS IS CHRIS FELDMAN, UH, THE ARCHITECT. I'M WITH CREA ARCHITECT. UH, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME THIS EVENING. UH, SO AS STAFF MENTIONED, THE, THE ONLY THING THAT WE REALLY ARE, ARE UP, ARE LOOKING TO DISCUSS AND GET APPROVAL ON IS THE ACTUAL WINDOW REPLACEMENT AND, AND NOT, NOT USING AN ALL WOOD WINDOW. OUR, OUR, OUR PRIMARY PROPOSAL IS FOR FX, WHICH IS A, UH, A WOOD COMPOSITE, UM, MATERIAL. UM, AND AGAIN, LOOKING FOR OPTIONS THAT ARE, UH, EFFICIENT, UM, THAT CAN MEET THE SIGHT LINES AND, AND LOOK OF THE WINDOWS. BUT SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY THAT HOLDS UP MUCH BETTER THAN, UH, THAN THE WOOD WINDOWS AS ARE INDICATED, AND, AND SORT OF THE WAY THAT THE EXISTING WINDOWS HAVE FARED OVER THE YEARS. UM, THE EXISTING BUILDING, AND I THINK STAFF VISITED AND, AND CONCURRED WITH OUR ANALYSIS AS THEY WERE ALL ROTTED AND FALLING APART. SO, UM, THE, UH, THE, ONE OF THE PRODUCTS, UH, THE, UH, THE, WHICH ONE WAS THAT? SORRY. NO, THE THIRD, THE SECOND ONE, YEAH, SORRY. THE, THE CLAD ONE, UM, IS ONE THAT, UH, HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR WINDOW REPLACEMENT ON OTHER HISTORIC STRUCTURES, UM, AND BUILDINGS THAT WE'VE WORKED ON AS A REPLACEMENT PRODUCT. AND SO ONCE WE MOVED AWAY FROM BEING ABLE TO REPAIR THEM, WE PROPOSE, UM, THE FX, WHICH WE SEE AS A, A GOOD SUSTAINABLE LONG-TERM SOLUTION. BUT THEN SENT ANOTHER OPTION, UM, JUST FOR DISCUSSION AND HOPEFUL APPROVAL OF ONE OF THE TWO, IF THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. BUT THERE WAS A PREVIOUS, UH, H C R OR APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION, UH, PRIOR TO OUR CLIENT OWNING THE PROPERTY. BUT IT WAS, IT WAS, UH, CONFINED, I THINK IT'S MENTIONED IN THE REPORT, BUT THAT WAS CONFINED TO, UH, THE FIRST FLOOR, UH, STOREFRONT AND SOME NEW OPENINGS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING, NOT THE, NOT THE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR THAT WE'RE PROPOSING. SO THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE PROJECT AND THE BUILDING. UM, I TEND TO AGREE WITH, WITH STAFF, AND I THINK IT'S RARE THAT WE REALLY LOOK AT A FULL, UH, WINDOW REPLACEMENT. BUT GIVEN, GIVEN THE OVERALL CONDITION AND NUMBER OF THOSE, I'M, I'M IN SUPPORT OF THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT. I THINK THAT, THAT, UM, THE MATERIALITY IS PROBABLY IMPORTANT WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, REPLACING WOOD WINDOWS. THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMISSION, AND USUALLY THE ACTION FROM THIS COMMISSION FOR THOSE REPLACEMENTS, UH, OF A, OF AN EXISTING WOOD WINDOW IS THAT IT BE REPLACED IN KIND, WHICH MEANS A FULLY WOOD WINDOW FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. I KNOW THERE'S, I THINK THERE'S A NEW CON NEW PROPOSED PIECE TO THIS NEXT DOOR THAT WE DON'T SEE HERE. I THINK THE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW WOULD CERTAINLY BE OUR GUIDELINES, BUT I UNDERSTAND THE STAFF'S POSITION ON, UH, THE FULLY WOOD REQUIREMENT. AND I, I TEND TO AGREE WITH THEM. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR A LITTLE BIT FROM SOME OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, 'CAUSE THAT'S FRANKLY, THE, THE ISSUE HERE IS GONNA BE THE MATERIALITY AND [02:25:01] THE REPLACEMENT. DOES MR. GREEN BY AGREE WITH YOU, MR. COMMISSIONER FISH? UM, I THINK THAT, UM, I WOULD AGREE THAT THE REPLACEMENT SINCE THE EXISTING OUR WOOD WINDOWS, THAT WOULD BE ALSO WHAT WE, WE USUALLY APPROVE. AND ON THE NEW CONSTRUCTION, WE COULD, UH, LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS. THIS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I CAN CONCUR WITH THAT. AND THAT'S IN KEEPING WITH THE GUIDELINES. COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, AS WELL AS COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ. I, I WOULD AGREE WITH THE, THE APPLICANT AND THE ARCHITECT, AND THEY CONSIDERED, UH, THEIR, THEIR OPTIONS AND THEIR REALLY PLACING FORWARD THEIR RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMISSION. I, I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S JUST A RECOMMENDATION FOR THEIR PROJECT, BUT IT'S A GENERAL RECOMMENDATION, UH, FROM THEIR EXPERTISE. AND THEN THE COMPOSITE MATERIAL, IT, UH, IT, IT, UH, IT, IT IS MOST DEFINITELY JUST AS APPROPRIATE. UM, SO I WOULD, UH, SUPPORT A MOTION TO SUPPORT THE APPLICANT AND, AND THE PRODUCT OF CHOICE OF THE APPLICANT. 'CAUSE THEY'RE BOTH A, THEY'RE BOTH, UH, APPLICABLE, WELL, THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT'S, UH, A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW THAN I HAVE. AND, UH, I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, AND IF THAT FAILS, WE CAN TAKE UP THE, THE ALTERNATIVE COMMISSIONER CARPENTER RICE, THIS, THE A, CAN I RESPOND BEFORE YOU SURE. MAKE A MOTION. WELL, THE YOU'RE WELCOME. HAVE A, DO HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND THAT YOU CAN, UH, RESPOND. OKAY. I, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO VOLUNTARY. THIS IS INCONSISTENT WITH, UH, AN HISTORIC PROJECT WE BROUGHT BEFORE THE COMMISSION, GOSH, ALMOST A YEAR AGO, WHERE THE CLOUD PRODUCT WAS APPROVED. IT WAS THEIR EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS AND HISTORIC LANDMARK. UM, AND IT WAS, IT WAS APPROVED BECAUSE THE LOOK MIMICKED THE LOOK OF THE WOOD IN TERMS OF SITE LINES PROVIDED ADDITIONAL DURABILITY, UH, OVER TIME. AND SO I APPRECIATE COMMISSIONER VAL'S SUPPORT AND, AND IT SEEMS THAT WHILE MATERIALITY IS IMPORTANT, WE CAN'T, UH, I, IN, IN PREVIOUS COMMISSIONS, IT ALSO, UH, WAS SUPPORTED MAKING THE STOREFRONT METAL. SO, UM, I THINK FORCING A BUILDING OWNER TO REPLACE, UM, I UNDERSTAND THE REPAIR REQUIREMENT AND IF THEY'RE REPAIRABLE, BUT THESE ARE WAY BEYOND REPAIR, AND UNFORTUNATELY BECAUSE THEY'RE WOOD. UM, AND SO I THINK I WOULD URGE THE COMMISSION TO SUPPORT, BECAUSE THIS, THIS POSITION HAS BEEN TAKEN ON MANY PROJECTS WITH REPLACEMENT WINDOWS, NOT JUST NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, BUT RENOVATION PROJECTS. AND IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE, UH, FIRST OF ALL, THEY'RE, THEY ARE MORE COST EFFECTIVE, BUT THEY ALSO MIMIC THE LOOK AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL DURABILITY, UM, AND TO, TO MAKE EVERYONE REPLACED WITH ALL WOOD WINDOWS AND ALL OLDER BUILDINGS SEEMS TO BE, UH, INCONSISTENT WITH COMMISSION'S RULINGS ON OTHER, OTHER, UH, OTHER HEARINGS AT PAST DATES. SO, SO I CAN JUST THAT BRIEFLY, BECAUSE WE, WE, I'M SURE WE WANNA KEEP MOVING. UH, WHEN WE'VE CONSIDERED, UH, WHOLE WHOLESALE BUILDING WHOLESALE WINDOW REPLACEMENT ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS, INCLUDING SOME RATHER LARGE ONES WITH VERY LARGE WINDOWS DOWNTOWN, UM, IT HAS BEEN THE RECOMMENDATION THAT THOSE BE CONSTRUCTED FULLY OUTTA WOOD. AND THEY HAVE BEEN, I KNOW THERE ARE UNIQUE CON CONDITIONS ON, UM, A NUMBER, A, A NUMBER OF ISSUES. PERHAPS THE, UH, HISTORIC MATERIAL HAS BEEN LOST, OR THEIR WINDOW REPLACEMENTS AND ALUMINUM PLAID WOOD, UH, ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS ARE CONSIDERED. THERE'S A VARIETY OF REASONS. WHILE IT DOESN'T NEATLY FIT ON, ON ALL PROJECTS IN THERE, I, I BELIEVE THERE PROBABLY ARE THAT DON'T NECESSARILY LINE UP WITH THIS. SO I, I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR POINT. UM, THIS IS COMMISSIONER APPROVED ON CERTAIN PROJECTS AND NOT ON OTHERS. THE, THE, I MEAN, THIS IS FULL WINDOW REPLACEMENT. THIS IS COMMISSIONER, I'D LIKE TO KIND OF KINDA SPEAK TO THAT BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATION IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PHILOSOPHICAL OR NOT PHILOSOPHICAL. YOU KNOW, I, THIS IS ARCHITECTURE AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, ON ONE END WE HAVE, UH, COMMISSIONER FI, WHO I THINK IS AN ARCHITECT, AND ON THE OTHER END WE HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM ANOTHER GENTLEMAN WHO IS AN ARCHITECT. AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS BEING PRESENTED ARE TWO, TWO PROFESSIONAL POSITIONS, AND THEY'RE PHILOSOPHICAL PERIOD. BECAUSE ONE WINDOW OR VERSUS ANOTHER WINDOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU, BUT I DO WANT TO GO ON THE RECORD AS SUPPORTING THIS APPLICANT BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT HE'S SPEAKING TO IT, IT HAS TO DO WITH TIME, BUT IT ALSO HAS TO DO WITH INCONSISTENCY. AND, AND I DO THINK THAT, THAT IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO, TO SUPPORT CONSISTENCY IN THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS AND, AND TO REALLY QUESTION IF IT'S NOT A CODE, IF IT'S, IF, IF IT'S ONLY A CUSTOM OF COMMISSION, THEN, UH, BECAUSE THERE [02:30:01] ARE NO WINDOWS THERE AND, AND, AND WE ARE GETTING A RECOMMENDATION FOR A, A, A PRODUCT THAT, THAT IS SUPPORTED BY WHAT, WHAT SEEMS TO BE A VERY QUALIFIED ARCHITECT. SO THIS, MR. CARPENTER, MAY I MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT? BECAUSE IT ISN'T JUST A CUSTOM. THERE ARE GUIDELINES THAT WE ARE FOLLOWING ON THIS COMMISSION, AND THEY SAY THAT YOU'RE REPLACING KIND AND WHETHER THERE HAVE BEEN INCONSISTENCIES IN THE PAST AND OTHER PROJECTS. IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE ARGUING FOR CONSISTENCY, THEN LET'S START STICKING TO THOSE GUIDELINES UNLESS THERE'S SOME REAL COMPELLING REASON NOT TO NO, BUT, BUT THEY'RE NOT, BUT THEY'RE NOT LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, LIKE A, LIKE A SETBACK THAT YOU HAVE TO GO BEFORE THE, THE, UH, UH, BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. AND, AND I USE, I, AND I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT I USE THE CEMETERY AT THE ALAMO AS MY BENCHMARK FOR THE DECISIONS THAT THIS COMMISSION MAKES. SO IT USES PHILOSOPHY AND IT DECIDES BASED ON WHAT IT, WHAT IT THINKS, AND ITS THOUGHT PROCESS IS COMPLETELY BASED ON OPINION. SO, SO, SO I DO, I DO THINK THAT THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO, TO GET A QUALIFIED EXPERTISE THAT MIGHT NOT ONLY BENEFIT THIS PROJECT, BUT MIGHT ALSO BENEFIT LIKE A PROJECT LIKE THAT HOUSE THAT THEY WANTED TO REPLACE THE WINDOWS FOR, FOR THAT WE JUST HAD THAT WE, THAT WE DENIED. I, I, I, I THINK THAT THIS IS A VERY GOOD OPINION AND IF, IF WE CAN'T QUALIFY AN OPINION THAT AN OPINION THAT COMES BEFORE US WITH CUT SHEETS AND, UH, AND NO EXISTING, UH, UH, WOOD WINDOW AND ROT AND ALL THAT, THIS IS THIS OPPORTUNITY. THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY. OKAY. SO, OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU. YEAH, WE DO HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE AND A SECOND, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? UM, YES. AND COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, YOU'LL NEED TO TURN YOUR CAMERA BACK ON FOR THE ROLL CALL. THANKS, FERNANDEZ. AYE FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELAZQUEZ, NAY CARPENTER? AYE GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN? AYE. BETTS? AYE. LI AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. HEY, ADAM. [16. 20-7082 Address/Description: 2115 W MAGNOLIA AVE HDRC Case No.: 2020-496 Historic District Name: Monticello Park Applicant: Theresa Goldbach Request: Front yard fence installation City Council Dist.: 7] 16. CAN I MAKE A YES. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2020 DASH 4 96 21 15 WEST MAGNOLIA. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL A FOUR FOOT TALL VINYL PICKET FRONT YARD FENCE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH S. IF THE H D R C FINDS FRONT YARD FENCE INSTALLATION APPROPRIATE STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A FULLY WOOD PICKET FENCE IN LIEU OF THE PROPOSED VINYL PICKET FENCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT UPDATED MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND I HAVE THE APPLICANT, THERESA GOLDLOCK ON THE LINE. THERESA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SUMMARIZE YOUR REQUEST FOR THE COMMISSION? YES. SO, UH, I, I APPLIED ON BEHALF OF MY SISTER, BROCA GOLDLOCK, WHO IS THE HOMEOWNER HOMEOWNER. UH, SHE'S LIVED HERE SINCE 2006. WE'VE HAD A HUGE PROBLEM WITH A LARGE LOOSE DOGS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S BEEN INCREASING OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, AND THIS YEAR WE HAD, UH, TWO OF OUR CATS, UH, VICIOUSLY KILLED BY LOOSE DOGS. AND, UH, MY SISTER'S BEEN ATTACKED. I'VE BEEN CONFRONTED IN THE FRONT YARD. MY MOTHER'S DOG WAS ATTACKED. SHE, MY MOTHER LIVED ACROSS THE STREET AND HER DOG WAS ATTACKED AND ALMOST KILLED IN THEIR FRONT YARD WHILE SHE WAS ON A LEASH. SO WE ARE WANTED, WANTED TO PUT SOME SORT OF BARRIER SO THAT WE COULD AT LEAST BE IN OUR FRONT YARD SAFELY WITHOUT FEAR OF LIKE BEING ATTACKED BY WILD DOGS. SO I WAS ORIGINALLY TOLD THAT, UH, WE DIDN'T NEED ANY MATERIALS TO APPLY. SO THE VINYL TICKET FENCE, UH, THAT ACTUALLY CAME FROM THE, THE, THE GUIDELINES. THERE'S A PICTURE OF A FENCE LIKE THAT IN THE GUIDELINES UNDER, YES. SO THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I CHOSE THAT. ALSO, UH, BECAUSE ME AND MY SISTER ARE PROBABLY GONNA TRY AND INSTALL THIS OURSELVES, I FIGURED IT WOULD BE EASY, BUT IF WE NEED TO INSTALL SOMETHING HEAVIER, WE CAN START, YOU KNOW, LIFTING WEIGHTS OR SOMETHING TO GET IN SHAPE. UM, I MEAN, WE REALLY JUST WANT IT FOR SECURITY PURPOSES. UH, THAT, BESIDES JUST THE PHYSICAL SAFETY, WE'VE HAD LOTS OF PACKAGES STOLEN FROM OUR FRONT PORCH. UH, MY SISTER HAS HAD THREE DIFFERENT STATUES OF STOLEN FROM HER FRONT YARD. THE CURRENT STATUE SHE HAS OUT THERE IS, UH, SECURED WITH A CHAIN, UM, HANGING BASKETS, JUST EVERYTHING STOLEN FROM THE FRONT YARD. SO WE DO NOT FEEL SAFE IN THE FRONT YARD. UH, I'VE ALSO DRIVEN AROUND AND FOUND MANY OTHER FENCES IN THE AREA, ESPECIALLY ON MISSILE TOE, THE 21 TO 2200 BLOCK OF MISSILE TOE THAT RUNS DIRECTLY PARALLEL TO OURS. UH, ON OUR BLOCK THERE IS A SIMILAR FENCE THAT IS ONLY ON HALF OF THE YARD, DOESN'T ENC CLOSE THE WHOLE YARD, AND THAT IS FURTHER TOWARDS THE ENCAMPMENT [02:35:01] END OF THE BLOCK. SO, UM, THAT, THAT'S ABOUT IT. I WE'RE JUST, WE WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME GUIDANCE. I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT. UH, I HAVE A PHD IN CRITICAL DANCE STUDIES, SO I WOULD BE MORE QUALIFIED TO SPEAK TO THE ROSARIO PROPOSAL THAN, THAN ANY SORT OF ARCHITECTURAL, UH, GUIDELINES. BUT, UM, WE'RE JUST WANTING TO SEE IF WE CAN GET THIS DONE AND HOPEFULLY GET SOME GUIDANCE AS TO WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO GET THE FENCE INSTALLED. UH, TO THE POINT THAT, UH, THERE WAS NO FENCE HISTORICALLY THERE. HISTORICALLY, WE NEVER REALLY NEEDED A FENCE. UH, I GREW UP IN THIS, AGAIN, IN MY MOM'S HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET, AND WE DID NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH THE LARGE GANGS OF DOGS ROAMING THE AREA. SO THEY WOULDN'T HAVE, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED A FENCE. AND, UM, THAT'S ABOUT IT. THIS IS GROUP. UM, YOU ACTUALLY USED ONE OF THE PICTURES WAS MY HOUSE . I WAS ACTUALLY GONNA, UM, ASK, I THINK I, I STAFF APPROVES IT AND I ALSO AGREE, I THINK, UM, A GREAT DESIGN. I DO AGREE THE VINYL IS PROBABLY NOT, THE WHITE VINYL'S NOT THE RIGHT OPTION, AND THEIR STAFF IS SUGGESTING WOOD. I WAS ACTUALLY GONNA SUGGEST WROUGHT IRON BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S MORE COMMONLY FOUND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO DO? OH, DEFINITELY. I ACTUALLY PREFER THE WROUGHT IRON TOO. I JUST THOUGHT THAT, UH, THE, THE WOOD WOULD GO WITH THE HOUSE, BUT I, I LIKE WR IRON MYSELF. IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMENT? YEAH, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. WE HAVE A CITIZEN COMMENT. WE DO. UM, THIS COMES FROM ALEX SOTO, UM, FROM THE WOODLAWN LAKE COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION. THEY OPPOSE THE REQUEST FOR, UM, A FRONT YARD FENCE AT THIS ADDRESS. THERE ARE NO OTHER FRONT YARD FENCES ON THE 2100 TO 2200 BLOCK OF WEST MAGNOLIA. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF A FRONT YARD FENCE EVER HAVING BEEN ERECTED AT THIS PARTICULAR ADDRESS. THE FENCE AS REQUESTED, WOULD BE TOTALLY OUT OF CHARACTER WITH THIS HISTORIC HOME IN ITS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. IT WOULD ALSO SET A BAD PRECEDENT FOR THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY IF A FENCE WERE TO BE APPROVED. W L C A OPPOSED THE DESIGN AND MATERIAL PROPOSED AS CONTRARY TO HISTORIC STANDARDS THAT WOULD CREATE AN S O IN THE COMMUNITY COMMISSIONER GRU, IF, IF, IF YOU MAKE A MOTION TO THAT EFFECT, I WOULD SECOND AS AN EXAMPLE OF A, A WROUGHT IRON. IF YOU GO TO, UH, PHOTO, UH, 17, THAT IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE NEWEST INSTALL. AND I'LL ACTUALLY ALSO, EVERYBODY CAN SEE WHICH HOUSE'S MINE GO TO PICTURE. I I THINK 80% OF THE PICTURES THAT YOU SENT WERE THE BLACK RED IRON. THERE IS ONE THAT HAS WHITE RED IRON ON THE CORNER OF LAKE AND IT'S DONALDSON. UM, BUT, UM, I, THERE'S ONE THAT HAS RED. I, I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST THAT YOU DO, UM, THE BLACK WR IRON. THIS IS COMMISSIONER AND I WANNA MAKE SURE TO THE COMMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK STAFF IS ALSO SAYING, UM, PICTURE NUMBER 23. UM, ONE THING THAT I THINK THE APPLICANT IS DOING RIGHT, IT'S NOT GOING AROUND THE DRIVEWAY, SO SHE'S STILL, YOU KNOW, TURNING THAT, UH, FENCE BEFORE THE DRIVEWAY. IF YOU GO TO, SORRY, NOT 23 THEN IT'S 25, I GUESS IN MY BOOK, IN MY PACKAGE, IT'S 25, IT'S 24, SORRY, THAT ONE, I THINK THE WR IRON, THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. I THINK THE WROUGHT IRON AND THE DARK COLOR, UH, TEND TO GO AWAY. AND SO, UH, IT WOULD NOT, UH, COMPETE WITH THE, UH, FRONT OF THE HOUSE AS, AS A, UH, WHITE PICKET WOOD PICKET FENCE WOULD DO. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. UM, I MIGHT HAVE A, HAVE VIEW HERE, BUT I, UH, JUST TO THE APPLICANT, I, I HAD A CAT THAT I LOST THAT WAS MAULED BY WILD DOGS AND OR STRAY DOGS, RATHER. AND I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE, THE FEELING AND, AND THE THREAT, BUT I, I CAN'T SUPPORT AN INTRO, THE INTRODUCTION OF A FENCE ON A BLOCK ON, UH, THAT IS PRETTY UNIFORMLY UNINTERRUPTED ALONG MAGNOLIA. THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I CONCUR WITH THAT POSITION COMPLETELY. DO WE HAVE A MOTION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? CAN I ASK A QUESTION I LIKE TO ASK? YES, YES MA'AM. SO, UH, BUT WHY ARE THERE, UH, FENCES ALLOWED ON MISSILE TOE THAT IS DIRECTLY PARALLEL TO MAGNOLIA? [02:40:01] AND IT'S THE SAME, SAME EXACT, LIKE A MIX OF ARCHITECTURAL STYLES, UH, EVERYTHING. WHY ARE RESIDENTS ON MISSILE TOE ALLOWED TO FEEL SAFE IN THEIR FRONT YARD? AND WE ARE NOT, WE LIVE LIKE IT, IT WAS DIRECTLY PARALLEL TO THE, TO MAGNOLIA. IS IT JUST BECAUSE NOBODY BEFORE WE BECAME A HISTORICAL DISTRICT, DECIDED TO PUT UP A FENCE ON THIS, IN THIS BLOCK AND IT'S JUST PURE CHANCE? THAT SEEMS VERY UNFAIR TO ME. LET, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION, MA'AM. UH, WITH RESPECT TO WHAT THE SOLUTION THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE, UH, THE PROBLEM YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE, I IS A, IS A THREE FOOT FENCE SUFFICIENT FOR YOU THREE FOOT IN HEIGHT, OR 40 INCHES IN HEIGHT? YES. ANY SORT OF BARRIER TO WHERE YOU CAN GET IT SO THAT THE DOGS ARE NOT DIRECTLY ON TOP OF YOU BEFORE YOU SEE THEM. ANY SORT OF BARRIER HELPS IF, IF COMMISSIONER FISHER, I COULD YOU JUST SUBMIT TO YOU THAT TAKE KING WILLIAM FOR INSTANCE, OR ANY OF THE, UH, EVEN EVEN, UH, SOME OF THE OLDER PARTS OF LA BACA, THESE REAL SHORT FENCES THAT ARE REAL THIN IN NATURE, UH, YOU, YOU, YOU HARDLY EVEN SEE 'EM. AND WHEN THEY HAVE THE 45 OR THE 90 DEGREE, UH, UH, DIAGONAL THAT GOES INTO THE LOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE STANDING, UH, THEY ALMOST LOOK TEMPORARY. I MEAN, THEY ALMOST LOOK LIKE THEY'RE JUST PLACED THERE ON THE LAND AND THEY STAND THERE ON THEIR OWN. IN, IN, IN A WAY, IF, IF THE SOLUTION IS, UH, UH, SOLVED, IF THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED WITH A LOW FENCE, THAT MIGHT DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM THINKING THAT THEY CAN GO AND PUT IN WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, YOUR MORE TRADITIONAL FENCE, RIGHT? AT 48 INCHES OR AT, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, I GUESS WOULD BE YOUR, YOUR CODE, RIGHT? 48 INCHES IN THE FRONT. IF, IF, IF WE WERE TO ENABLE IT TO BE LOWER SO THAT A DOG COULDN'T GET TO A CAT TH 36 INCHES, UH, 40 INCHES, UH, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU MIGHT CONSIDER? MY, MY ISSUE IS THE INTRODUCTION OF A FENCE ALONG A BLOCK THAT HAS NO ESTABLISHED FRONT YARD FENCES. IF YOU LOOK ON THE VIEWS UP AND DOWN MAGNOLIA, WHAT YOU HISTORICALLY SEE THERE IS, UH, A WIDE MOW STRIP AND CONTINUOUS CONTINUOUS LAWNS. IT'S, IT'S, I I I THINK WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING SOUNDS REASONABLE AND LESS INTRUSIVE THAN, UH, THE FULLER HEIGHT FENCE, BUT I'M NOT SURE I'M QUITE THERE. AND, AND I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE MOTION TO MAKE AND I HOPE YOU MAKE IT. OKAY. WELL, LET ME, I, I WANNA MAKE A MOTION THAT'S ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT COMMISSIONER GRU WAS NOTING AS WELL, THAT, UH, FOR APPROVAL OF A WR IRON FENCE, UM, UH, NO HIGHER THAN, UM, UH, UH, 38 INCHES AND ONLY WITHIN THE, THE PERIMETER OF THE FRONT YARD, NOT THE DRIVEWAY. THAT'D BE MY MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'M GONNA SAY SOMETHING HERE. I ACTUALLY DID NOT REALIZE THAT MAGNOLIA, I JUST PULLED UP RULE EARTH THAT IN FACT, THERE IS NO HOME ON MAGNOLIA, NOT EVEN THAT BLOCK OR THE NEXT BLOCK. AND I, I DO AGREE WITH THE APPLICANT. UH, MISSILE TOE HAS FRONT YARD FENCING SUMMIT HAS FRONT YARD FENCING. MAGNOLIA DOES NOT HAVE FRONT YARD FACING. AND THAT PUTS ME A LITTLE BIT IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION. I HAD NOT, UH, LOOKED INTO THAT. WELL, PART, PART, PART OF THE, PART OF THE, OF JUST THE CONSIDERATION OF THE MOTION, RIGHT? UH, IS THAT THE HEIGHT, I WISH THERE WAS A WAY TO SPECIFY THE THICKNESS OF THE ROD AND ALL THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE THESE TINY FENCES IN HISTORIC HOUSES THAT ARE ALMOST NOT EVEN THERE. AND I THINK THAT THE REASON THAT THOSE, THOSE FENCES ARE THE WAY THEY ARE IS 'CAUSE THEY PROBABLY FACE THE SAME, UH, PROBLEM EVEN HISTORICALLY, EVEN WITHOUT REGULATION THAT THEY DIDN'T WANNA PUT A FENCE THAT THEY KNEW THEY NEEDED SOMETHING. IT COULD HAVE BEEN BECAUSE THEY HAD A TODDLER, RIGHT? AND THEN THEY STAY THERE, BUT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE USUALLY THAT ROUND BAR, UH, A STEEL, THE, THE TOP SIR LOOPED, THEY HAVE ONE, MAYBE ONE UH, ELEMENT AT THE TOP. THEY'RE REAL DAINTY, THEY'RE REAL BEAUTIFUL. THEY SOLVE THE SOLUTION. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU, HOW, HOW, HOW YOU STIPULATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR ASK STAFF TO ENSURE THAT IT'S THIS WAY, ASIDE FROM THE HEIGHT AND THE FACT THAT THEY'RE, THAT IT'S WR IRON. MAYBE IT'S THE SPACING OF THE BAR THAT IT'S NOT THE WAY THEY DO BARS TODAY, RIGHT? AND WHAT IS IT, THREE OR FOUR INCHES OFF CENTER? I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE USUALLY A LITTLE FURTHER. MAYBE THEY'RE LIKE FOUR, FOUR OR FIVE INCHES OFF CENTER. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TYPE OF FENCE. THIS IS REALLY, THERE'S A BIG FRONT LAWN. THE WHOLE BLOCK IS LIKE THAT. AND, AND THIS IS MORE ABOUT [02:45:01] INTRODUCING SOMETHING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR THIS BLOCK THAT WILL BE, UH, MOST OF THE HOMES ON MISSILE TILL HAVE A MUCH LESS, MUCH LESS BIGGER FRONT YARD, UM, ON SUMMIT. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF EXISTING FENCING, SO I GUESS THAT WAS A SOLVING THAT. SO THAT'S, YEAH, IT'S A VERY DEEP, UH, THE HOUSE SITS VERY DEEP. YEAH. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I, I, UM, SHARE, UH, COMMISSIONER GROUP'S CONCERN ABOUT THIS AS WELL AS, AS, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH IS, IT'S JUST THAT IT, IT'S SUCH A ABRUPT DEPARTURE FROM WHAT IS PREVALENT ON THIS SPECIFIC STREET. NOW WHETHER THAT'S FAIR OR NOT, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT REALLY WITHIN OUR PURVIEW, YOU KNOW? UM, I, I THINK SAFETY ISSUES ARE, ARE, ARE, ARE IMPORTANT, BUT I THINK THERE'S ALSO OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN, UH, ATTACK THAT AS A, AS A NEIGHBORHOOD AND BEING A MEMBER OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK YOU GO INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION MEETINGS FREQUENTLY AND WE HAVE ENGAGEMENT WITH THE, UH, POLICE AND WITH, UH, OTHER CITY SERVICES THAT COULD HELP, UH, CORRAL THE WILD DOG PROBLEM. I, I THINK THOSE ARE BETTER APPROACHES THAN DEVIATING DRAMATICALLY FROM, UH, YOU KNOW, THE ESTABLISHED PATTERN, UH, OF THE STREET. SO IF, UH, IF THERE, IF THE PREVIOUS MOTION HAS DIED DUE TO A LACK OF A SECOND, I MOVE FOR DENIAL BASED UPON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. CAN I ADDRESS THAT LAST POINT PLEASE? THIS IS, UH, THERESA, THE, THE APPLICANT. UM, WE HAVE BEEN CALLING 3 1 1 AND REPORTING THE WILD DOGS FOR YEARS NOW. NOTHING HAS HAPPENED, UH, THAT THOSE SERVICES HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN REDUCED OVER THE LAST, I WOULD SAY LIKE FEW DECADES. THERE'S BEEN FEWER AND FEWER SERVICES TO TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM. WE HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING. WE WOULD BE WILLING TO EVEN, LIKE, WE DON'T HAVE TO ENCLOSE THE WHOLE FRONT YARD, JUST SOMETHING AT LEAST LIKE CLOSE TO THE PORCH THAT WE CAN, COULD HAVE SOME, SOME SAFE SPACE FOR US. UM, I, THERE ARE EXPENSES ON MAGNOLIA. THEY DON'T ENCLOSE THE ENTIRE FRONT YARD. AND THERE ARE SOME PLACES THAT, UH, ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE A, A RAISED LAWN, SO IT IS NOT ONE FLAT LAWN ACROSS THE WHOLE STREET. THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE THAT, SO THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT THAT WE WOULD BE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO TRY AND LIKE, GET SOME SPACE THAT WE CAN BE IN OUR FRONT YARD SAFELY. WELL, ONE ONE OF COMMISSIONER , ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT THE APPLICANT JUST SAID, AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I WAS GONNA PROPOSE TOO, IS WHAT IF, WHAT IF THIS LOW FENCE, THIS LOW WR IRON WORK OF ART, WHAT IF IT WAS CLOSER TO THE HOUSE? WHAT IF IT MOVED ITSELF IN TO CREATE A PROTECTED TERRITORY? UH, SO THAT, SO THAT IF A DOG KILLS HER CAT, SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO FEEL LIKE THE REASON HER CAT DIED WAS BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SOLUTION TO GIVING HER A PROTECTED SPACE, RIGHT? WHAT IF, WHAT IF THE, WHAT IF THE FENCE WAS SAY 20 FEET AWAY FROM THE HOUSE OR 25 FEET AND IT'S, AND IT'S LOW AND IT'S THAT BEAUTIFUL WR IRON AND IT LIKE ADDS TO THE QUALITY OF THE PROTECTION. I THINK WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO IS THE APPLICANT CAN WITHDRAW AND COME BACK WITH A REVISED DESIGN AND LOOK AT THAT, OR WE, UH, KEEP GOING WITH THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE TABLE. APPLICANT CAN STILL COME BACK BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A NEW APPLICATION. SO I, I WANNA SECOND, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S MOTION AND, UH, I, I'M, I'M CERTAINLY INTERESTED IN TRYING TO FIND A, A WORKABLE SOLUTION HERE, JUST FOR REFERENCE, I, I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF FRONT YARD FENCES ON THIS BLOCK. OKAY, SO COMMISSIONER FISH, IS THAT A SECOND? YES, THAT'S, IT'S A SECOND TO COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S MOTION. OKAY, WE HAVE A FIRST AND SECOND MR. CHAIR, FIRST AND SECOND FOR DENIAL. UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? ANDES AYE FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. QUEZ. NATE, NATE CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. UM, ITEM 17, [17. 20-7073 Address/Description: 522 N HACKBERRY ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-449 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: ANNA SALCEDO Request: Construction of one, 2-story residential structure City Council Dist.: 2] EDWARD, ARE YOU THERE? LET'S MAKE SURE YOU'RE MUTED. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 17, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 24 49 5 22 NORTH HACKBERRY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR [02:50:01] APPROVAL OF THE CONSTRUCT, A TWO STORY MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT AUDIT. 5 22 NORTH HACKBERRY LOCATED WITHIN THE DIG WHITTY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH S STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL. ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION NOTING THAT THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION WILL FEATURE A SETBACK THAT IS EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY. ON THE BLOCK IS NOTED IN FINDING C TWO THAT THE APPLICANT ELIMINATE, ELIMINATE ONE OF THE PROPOSED ENTRANCES AND DEVELOP ENTRANCE ELEMENTS FOR ONE ENTRANCE THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. AND THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT IS NOTED IN FINDING D THREE THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSED AN OVERALL WIDTH THAT IS COMPARABLE TO THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY. ON THE BLOCK IS NOTED IN FINDING E FOUR THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE FOUNDATION AND FLOOR HEIGHTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AS NOTED IN FINDING G FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE ROOT FORMS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. AS NOTED IN FINDING H THE, UH, THAT THE PROPOSED STUCCO AND FO WOOD SIDING ARE ELIMINATED FROM THE PROPOSED DESIGNS NOTED IN FINDING J SEVEN THAT WINDOW MATERIALS ADHERE TO STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN FINDING K EIGHT. THE FINISH FENESTRATION PATTERNS PROFILES AND OPENINGS BE MODIFIED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND THE HISTORIC EXAMPLES FOUND WITHIN THE DISTRICT IS NOTED IN FINDINGS L AND M NINE. THAT UNIQUE PORCH MASSING IS INCORPORATED INTO THE DESIGN IS NOTED IN FINDINGS. D N N 10 WITH THE PROPOSED DOUBLE DRIVEWAY AND FRONT LOADED GARAGE CONFIGURATION BE ELIMINATED IS NOTED IN FINDINGS IN O AND P N 11 THAT A LANDSCAPING PLAN BE DEVELOPED TO INCLUDE A FRONT, FRONT WALKWAYS AND MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAYS NOTED IN FINDINGS. Q R N SS, UH, HAVE THE APPLICANT, UH, ANNA, UH, SAO ON THE LINE. UH, ANA, ARE YOU THERE? YES. HI EVERYONE. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, MY NAME IS ANNA ALDO AND WITH ME JULIO FERNANDEZ, WE ARE THE DESIGN TEAM. UH, GOING DIRECTLY TO THE PRESENTATION IN THE FIRST SLIDE, THE NUMBER TWO, YOU CAN SEE THE INSPIRATION MATERIALS, WHICH ARE INTENDED TO BE USED TO, UH, ON THIS NEW STRUCTURE COMPLEMENTING THOSE TRADITIONALLY FOUND IN THE SURROUNDING HISTORIC DISTRICT. IN ORDER LEFT TO RIGHT, WE CAN SEE BRICK, METAL ROOF, AND THEN IT PLANTS SIDING AND STAIN WOOD. UM, THE NEXT SLIDE, WHICH IS THE NUMBER THREE, YOU ARE, WELL, THE, THE SLIDE IS THE NUMBER FOUR, BUT YOU'RE IN THE, FOR THE BEFORE THAT ONE THAT YOU HAVE. UH, NEXT, NEXT ONE. UH, NEXT ONE. SO THERE'S GONNA BE A DELAY ON YOUR END. DO YOU WANT US TO PULL UP THE STREET RENDERING? NO. YEAH, I WANNA, I WANNA, YEAH, THAT ONE, THAT ONE IS GREAT. THE, THE ONE WITH THE PREFERENCES WELL IS THE, IS THE NUMBER, LET ME SEE. OH YEAH, THAT ONE. UH, WELL, IN THAT, IN THAT SHOWS SOME EXAMPLES OF NEW BUILDINGS THAT HAVE, UH, REINTERPRETED ELEMENTS THAT CAN BE FOUND IN THE ORIGINAL AND HISTORIC STRUCTURES SUCH AS SIDING. UH, THE TYPE OF WINDOWS, GARAGE DOORS, AND THE BRICK AND SIDING MIX. THEY ALL PLAY WITH COLOR AND TEXTURES IN THE PROPOSAL, UH, FACADE. UH, SLIDE THAT, THAT ONE THAT, THAT YOU'RE SHOWING, HAVING TWO IDENTICAL AND HOUSES, UH, GIVE A SYMMETRY TO THE VOLUME. SO THIS WAY, IN THE FIRST FLOOR, THE MAIN ACCESS IS LOCATED AT THE CENTER WITH A LITTLE PORCH TOP BY A SHED ROOF. YOU ACCESS DIRECTLY FROM THE STREET THROUGH A WALKWAY. THE GEOMETRY OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS TOO NARROW, GIVE US TWO INDEPENDENT DOOR GARAGE, ONE FOR EACH HOUSE AT THE FRONT FACADE, BUT WE ARE PROPOSING TO HAVE A WOOD AND WELL DONE GARAGE DOOR THAT COMPLIMENTS AND MATCHES WITH THE REST OF THE ELEMENTS. UM, ON THE SECOND FLOOR, THE HOUSE WILL HAVE A TERRACE FROM THE LIVING AREA THAT PROMOTES TO HAVE PLANTS AND MORE OUTDOOR SPACES. THE LAND IS TOO NARROW TO KEEP GARDENS, SO THIS WAY WE CAN GIVE OUT TO THE PUBLIC AREA OF THE HOUSE, UM, TO KEEP HISTORIC ELEMENTS AND GIVE SHAPE TO THE TERRAS. WE ARE INTEGRATING A SHED ROOFS FROM THESE TERRAS. WE ACCESS TO STAIRS DIVIDING BY A WOOD SET OUR WALL THAT TAKES US TO A ROOF GARDEN TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE AMAZING VIEW OF THE CITY. THIS ROOF, UH, GARDEN ADDS THE RECREATIONAL AREA TO THE HOUSE. BESIDES THE RECREATIONAL OPPORTUNITY, GREEN ROOFS MITIGATE WATER RUNOFF AND SEWER OVERLOAD, ALSO PROMOTES HAVING VEGETATION THAT HELP AIR QUALITY, REDUCES HEAT OF BUILDING AND ENERGY COSTS, AND CREATE HABITAT FOR WILD GAS AND, UH, AMBIENT TEMPERATURE. UM, [02:55:01] ON THE NEXT SLIDE WE CAN SEE, UH, TWO OPTIONS OF FACADE OPTION A AND OPTION B. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM IS THE SHED PROOF ON THE SECOND FLOOR IN A IT STOPS, AND IN V IT CONTINUES TO SAME ELEMENT. UM, AND IN THE NEXT SLIDE, THE ONE THAT IT'S, UH, WITH A GOOGLE MAPS, UH, SHOWS THE SETBACKS OF THE, OF THE OTHER STRUCTURES THAT WE CAN FIND ON THE BLOCK. UH, WE ARE, UH, WELL WE JUST GET THE REPLY OR WE ARE GETTING THE REPL OF THIS PROPERTY AND THEY ASK FOR, UH, ADS FOR A DEDICATION OF 7.3 FEET, MORE OF THE, THE, THE ONE THAT THE CITY ASKS FOR. SO I THINK WE HAVE MORE SETBACKS THAN THE USUAL. UM, AND THE, WELL THE NEXT SLIDE AFTER THE ONES, UH, OF GOOGLE MAPS SHOW SOME BLUEPRINT DETAILS OF THE WHOLE STRUCTURE, ELEVATION, FLOOR PLANS, ELECTRICAL, ET CETERA. WELL, THAT'S, THAT ARE MORE FOR THE INTERIOR DETAILS AND THE STRUCTURE. UM, WELL TO CONCLUDE, UH, AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, THE MAIN GOAL WE HAVE HERE IS TO KEEP HISTORIC, UH, GUIDELINES AND MARKET AT THE SAME TIME. WE NEED THE HOUSES TO KEEP MARKET PRICES, BUT ALSO TO IMPROVE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THE FUTURE USER USER KEEPING HISTORIC ELEMENTS THAT MIX TOGETHER IN A NEW STRUCTURE. UH, WELL, UH, I, I I THINK THE, THE, I HAVE ALSO A, A SLIDE OF LANDSCAPE AND, AND SOME PLANTS THAT, THAT WE WANT TO, TO INTEGRATE AND, AND TO HELP WITH ALL THE ELEMENTS AND, WELL, I I THINK IT'S JUST THAT THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. I'M GONNA MAKE THIS ONE EASY. THERE'S A LOT OF STIPULATIONS AND I THINK OTHER EXCUSE COMMENTS. SORRY, EXCUSE ME. WE DO HAVE SOME CITIZEN COMMENTS. UH, YEAH, WE HAVE A COUPLE. UM, THE FIRST IS PATTY ZIONS, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, I'M THINK INCUR WITH THE STAFF OF THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND ENCOURAGE YOU NOT TO APPROVE THE DESIGN FOR 5 22. HACK BEARING THE PROJECTING GARAGE IS ESPECIALLY DISRESPECTFUL TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IT HAS NO HISTORIC PRECEDENT. THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE DESIGN MAKE NO REFERENCE TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES IN THE AREA, IN FORM OR MATERIAL. THIS DESIGN NEEDS TO BE RECONCEIVED WITH ITS LOCATION IN MIND. UM, THE NEXT COMES FROM EVELYN BROWN. ON BEHALF OF SEVERAL, UH, RESIDENTS IN THE NUITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD, WE FULLY SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS TO DENY CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL IN RESPONSE TO THE CONCEPTUAL ELEMENTS AND DESIGN DRAWINGS PROVIDED. WE ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT TO ONCE AGAIN REVIEW O THREES AS SHORT DESIGN GUIDELINES. WE ALSO ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT TO WALK OR HER NEIGHBORHOOD FOR SENSE OF WHAT IS CONGRUENT WITH THE CONTEXT AND WHAT IS POSSIBLE WITH THE EXISTING HISTORIC CHARACTER DEFINING ELEMENTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NOW, COMMISSIONER GROUP. YEAH, AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY GONNA BE MY POINT. AND UM, YEAH, I FORGOT THAT THERE WAS GONNA BE CITIZENS' COMMENTS. SORRY ABOUT THAT. CHAIRMAN. UM, I JUST WANNA RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT. I'M GONNA MOVE THIS TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION AND TO RECOMMENDATIONS, WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD JUST SAID, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT'S IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT'S EXISTING ON THIS BLOCK AND WHAT'S EXISTING ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY, AS WELL AS, UM, THE GUIDELINES. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF THESE ELEMENTS THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO INTRODUCE THAT WE, WE HAVE SEEN APPROVED, BUT I MEAN A LOT OF IT, UM, IT'S REALLY BASED ON THE GUIDELINES AND FENESTRATIONS, WINDOWS, MATERIALS, ET CETERA. SO I'LL MOVE THIS TO D R C SECOND, I'LL SECOND IT. UM, AND I'D LIKE TO ADD A COMMENT TO THAT. I, I'D LIKE TO, TO JUST TELL THE, THE APPLICANT THAT I APPRECIATE YOUR DESIGN. IT, I CAN SEE THAT THERE'S A CULTURAL, UH, DEPARTURE FROM WHAT IS COMMON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I THINK THAT, UH, IT, IT HAS A STRONG VOICE AND UH, UH, THE D R C WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. BUT I ALSO, I ALSO FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT YOUR DESIGN. I THINK IT, IT, IT, IT IS A NEW CONTRIBUTION AND I, AND I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. UH, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGNER REVIEW COMMITTEE. HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ AYE. FISH? AYE. AYE. GIBBS AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. DREW? AYE BOWMAN, I THINK WE LOST BOWMAN. FETZER. AYE. LA PHONE? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. HEY, ADAM. 18. [18. 20-7083 Address/Description: 6439 De Zavala /Bacon-Steubing Farm HDRC Case No.: 2020-516 Applicant: Stephanie Dwyer Request: Request for review of historic significance City Council Dist.: 8] UM, JESS ARE YOU THERE? A AM? YES, GO AHEAD. I, ITEM 18 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 25 16 AT 64 39 DAYS OF ALLAH, [03:00:01] A REQUEST FOR REVIEW BY THE H D R C REGARDING ELIGIBILITY OF THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 64 39 DAYS OF ALLAH FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, OH, SORRY. STAFF AGREES WITH THE APPLICANT THAT THE PROPERTY IS ELIGIBLE FOR LOCAL HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION AND RECOMMENDS THAT THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION ISSUE A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR 64 39 DAYS OF ALLAH. AND RECOMMEND THAT CITY COUNCIL INITIATE THE REZONING PROCESS BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH G. AND I HAVE THE APPLICANT, STEPHANIE DWYER ON THE LINE, AS WELL AS, UH, BETH SANDFORD FROM THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY. UM, AND PLEASURE. CAN YOU THIS AND FOR CLARIFICATION, UM, SO WE HAVE APPLICANTS FOR THIS DESIGNATION CASE. WE ALSO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PROPERTY OWNER ALSO WHO'S AVAILABLE TO SPEAK AFTER THE APPLICANT. STEPHANIE AND BETH, ARE YOU READY? WE'RE READY. YEP. GO FOR IT. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BEFORE YOU TODAY ON BEHALF OF THE STING BARN, MY NAME IS STEPHANIE DWYER AND I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT OF BEXAR COUNTY DISTRICT EIGHT IN RICH HAVEN SUBDIVISION OVER 38 YEARS. EVERY DAY WHEN I DROVE RIGHT OUT OF MY SUBDIVISION, I WENT AROUND THE FARM AND THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD MOVE TO THE RIGHT. AT THAT TIME IT WAS 192 ACRE FARM. MORNING TO EVENING, I WOULD SEE THE FARMERS WORK DILIGENTLY OVER THE LAND AND I APPRECIATED THEIR HARD WORK. UH, ONE DAY, UH, AT A HEARING I GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET THE FARMERS AND THEY SHARED STORIES ABOUT THE FARMING AND HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS TO THEM AND THEIR FAMILY AS A WAY OF SURVIVAL. THEN IN 2020 I LEARNED THAT THERE WAS A DEMI DEMO DEMOLITION PERMIT REQUEST MADE BY TODAY'S OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. AND I ASKED O H P WHAT COULD BE DONE FROM THE COMMUNITY STANDPOINT. AND SHE ADVISED ME, JESSICA DID, THAT WE COULD GET A COMMUNITY INVOLVED. SO I REACHED OUT TO RICH HAVEN, I AM THE LIAISON FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEY TOLD US THAT BELIEVE IT. UM, EVERYBODY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WAS IN AGREEMENT 'CAUSE THEY ALSO MET THE FARMERS AT THE SAME HEARING. MOST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S HARD TO BELIEVE. BUT WE GOT PEOPLE IN HERE THAT'S NEVER MOVED OUT. THEY LOVE THAT AREA. AND THEY EXPRESSED TO ME HOW CONCERNED THEY WERE TO HAVE THE BARN DUMPED THEM DEMOTE. THEN I REACHED OUT TO BABCOCK, NORTH SUBDIVISION AROUND THE BEND. I REACHED OUT TO TANGLEWOOD, REACHED OUT TO HART RANCH, AND UM, IT WAS THE UNANIMOUS THAT THEY ALL AGREED THAT THEY WANTED TO SEE THE BARN SAVED. THE BARN IS LOCATED ON A VERY EASILY THOROUGHFARE TO SEE THE BARN FROM A CAR OR EVEN WALKING BY. SO IT'S VERY WELL VISIBLE TO THE AREA. I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY OTHER BARNS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESERVED IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD OR ANYWHERE NEAR ME. SO THIS BARN REPRESENTS THE ICONIC HISTORY THAT OUR CITY WAS BUILT UPON. WITHOUT THE BUILDING TO REMIND US OF OUR HISTORY, WE WILL LOSE THE MEMORIAL. MANY RESIDENTS AROUND US CAN, UH, VOUCH FOR THIS 'CAUSE THIS WAS THEIR FEELINGS TOO. SO I'M HOPING, UH, ONCE YOU HEAR THE CRITERIA THAT YOU'LL AGREE WITH ME TO PRESERVE THE BARN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU STEPHANIE. UH, BETH, GO AHEAD. OKAY. I'M BETH STANDFORD. I'M THE LIBRARIAN FOR THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY AND WORKING WITH MEMBERS OF THE SOCIETY'S HISTORIC FARM AND RANCH COMMITTEE, I HELPED RESEARCH THE BACON STUBING FARM. UM, THE NATIONAL REGISTER MULTIPLE PROPERTY LISTING HISTORIC FARMS AND RANCHES OF BEXAR COUNTY PROVIDED US WITH THE BROADER HISTORICAL CONTEXT FOR LOCAL DAIRY FARMING. AND BASED ON THIS RESEARCH, OUR TEAM CONCLUDED THAT THE BACON STEWING SITE MEETS FOUR CRITERIA FOR HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. UM, CRITERION ONE, THE REMAINING FARM BUILDINGS SERVE AS A VALUABLE, VISIBLE REMINDER OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF DAIRY FARMING THAT ONCE FLOURISHED IN NORTHWESTERN BEAR COUNTY, IN WHICH AUTHOR GAIL BRENNAN SPENCER DESCRIBED AS A PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S HERITAGE ALMOST ERASED 20TH CENTURY IMPROVEMENTS IN ROADS, VEHICLES, REFRIGERATION, AND DAIRY EQUIPMENT ALLOWED FARMERS LIKE THE BACONS AND STEBBINGS TO SUPPLY THE LARGE DAIRY PROCESSING PLANTS IN TOWN, WHICH WERE DISTANT FROM THEIR FARMS ON THE RURAL OUTSKIRTS. THIS FARM SUPPLIED METR DAIRIES WHOSE PLANT WAS LOCATED ON NORTH FLORES STREET. THE EXISTING BARN REPLACED A SMALLER STRUCTURE AND ALLOWED FOR MECHANIZED MILKING. SOMETIME BETWEEN 1948 AND 1954, ITS CONSTRUCTION REFLECTED THE FARM'S CONTINUED GROWTH AROUND THE TIME WHEN OVERALL MILK PRODUCTION IN BEXAR COUNTY HAD STARTED TO DECLINE TOGETHER WITH THE FEED ROOM AND MILK HOUSE, THE CAL BARN REPRESENTED THE WORKING HARD OF THE FARM OPERATING AS A DAIRY INTO THE 1980S. THE BACON STEUBEN FARM OUTLASTED THE OLDER VOLCKER [03:05:01] FARM WHOSE BARN AND HOUSES ARE PRESERVED IN HARBERGER PARK. THE MID-CENTURY BUILDINGS ON THE BACON STEUBEN FARM REMINDED INCREASINGLY URBAN COMMUNITY, HOW LONG DAIRY FARMING PERSISTED AS A PART OF THE AREA'S RURAL HERITAGE. UM, CRITERION THREE, IDENTIFICATION WITH A PERSON OR PERSONS WHO SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY OR COUNTY. THIS SITE IS ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH THE JOSEPH V BACON AND THE RAYMOND STUBING FAMILIES. JOSEPH VINCENT BACON FOR WHOM JV BACON PARKWAY IS NAMED ESTABLISHED THE FARM IN 1917. HIS DAUGHTER BERNICE, MARRIED A LOCAL FARMER NAMED RAYMOND STE IN 1938, AND HE JOINED HER ON THE BACON FARM WHERE THEY RAISED THEIR TWO CHILDREN TO CARRY ON THE FAMILY BUSINESS. RAYMOND STEVEN'S, GRANDFATHER HEINRICH AND FATHER HENRY HELPED SETTLE AND ADVANCE THE HELO LI VALLEY COMMUNITY. HEINRICH STUBING, A A GERMAN IMMIGRANT, ESTABLISHED ONE OF THE AREA'S FIRST FARMS NEAR ECKERD ROAD IN THE 1850S. HE BECAME A CHARTER MEMBER OF THE ZION LUTHERAN CHURCH IN HELOTES IN 1906, I'M SORRY, 1904. HENRY STUBING HELPED CONSTRUCT THE 1906 CHURCH BUILDING. HE ALSO ASSISTED IN ESTABLISHING SEVERAL AREAS, SCHOOLS AND THE HENRY STUBBING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ON HAUSMAN ROADS NAMED FOR HIM. DUE TO THE LONG HOURS AND RIGOROUS DEMANDS OF DAIRY FARMING, THE BACON STEUBEN FA FAMILY HAD LESS TIME TO ENGAGE IN CIVIC AND SOCIAL ACTIVITIES. THE TWO FAMILIES CONTRIBUTED THEIR LABOR ON THE FARM, WHICH PROVIDED WHOLESOME QUALITY MILK TO MEET THE CITY'S RISING DEMANDS FOR DAIRY PRODUCTS THROUGHOUT THE FIRST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY. AS ONE OF THE LARGER LOCAL FARMS, THEIR EFFORTS HELPED TO MAKE BEAR COUNTY A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE TEXAS DAIRY INDUSTRY BETWEEN 1920 AND 1950. UM, WE ALSO FELT THAT THIS PROPERTY MELT MET CRITERION SEVEN. UM, BECAUSE OF ITS UNIQUE LOCATION OR SINGULAR PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS MADE IT AN ESTABLISHED OR FAMILIAR VISUAL FEATURE. AND I'D LIKE TO SHOW THE LOCATOR MAP THAT I THINK IS SLIDE FIVE FOR THIS ONE. UM, BUT I'LL START TALKING. OF THE REMAINING THREE BUILDINGS, THE LONG LOW MASONRY BUILDING IS IN, WHICH IS IN THE CENTER, IS RECOGNIZABLE AS A CATTLE BARN, SIMILAR IN BASIC FORM TO THE OLDER VOLCKER DAIRY BARN PRESERVED AT HARBERGER PARK PASSED ON THE EAST BY JV BACON PARKWAY AND ON THE WEST BY AN UNNAMED ROAD BY THE OVERLOOK EXCHANGE APARTMENT COMPLEX. THE THREE BUILDINGS ARE AN ESTABLISHED VISUAL FEATURE THAT CAN BE SEEN BY TRAFFIC ON BOTH ROADS, AND IT'S NOT AS OBVIOUS IN THIS OVERHEAD. UM, THE ROAD TO THE RIGHT OF THE PROPERTY IS JV BACON AND THERE IS A GAP, IF YOU LOOK AT IT AT THE STREET LEVEL, THERE'S A GAP THROUGH THOSE TREES WHERE YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE, UM, THE BUILDINGS AS YOU DRIVE BY THAT WAY. UH, JV BACON PARKWAY SERVES AS AN IMPORTANT TRAFFIC CONNECTOR BETWEEN HAUSMAN AND DAVALA ROADS LINKING THE GROWING RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT EXISTS TO THE NORTH AND SOUTH OF THE REMAINING BUILDINGS. AND I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HAVE A WIDER ANGLE PHOTO TO, TO SHOW THAT. UM, MANY RESIDENTS FROM RICH HAVEN NEIGHBORHOOD NORTHEAST OF THIS SITE HAVE ALREADY INDICATED THEIR SUPPORT FOR PRESERVING THE FARM BUILDINGS AS A FAMILIAR VISUAL FEATURE. I THINK IT ALSO MEETS CRITERION 11. THE BUILDINGS ARE OF DISTINCTIVE INTEREST AND VALUE FOR EXEMPLIFYING DAIRY FARMING. AS A PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S ECONOMIC AND HISTORICAL HERITAGE. COMMERCIAL DAIRY FARMING BECAME A SIGNIFICANT COMPONENT OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION IN BEXAR COUNTY, PARTICULARLY IN THE YEARS BETWEEN 1920 AND 1950. EVEN BY 1954, THE SAN ANTONIO CITY DIRECTORY LISTED 12 DAIRIES, THE LARGEST OF WHICH WERE THE BOARD AND COMPANY, FOREMOST NOEL'S CREAMERY AND METZKER DAIRY. THE FARMERS FUNCTION TOGETHER WITH THE PROCESSORS AND DISTRIBUTORS IN AN INTERDEPENDENT RELATIONSHIP THAT REPRESENTED AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE LOCAL ECONOMY. 1 19 35 ARTICLE ABOUT METZGER'S DAIRIES NOTED THAT EVERY CENT SPENT FOR FRESH MILK AIDS IN THE UP UPBUILDING OF SAN ANTONIO, FROM THE DAIRYMEN WHO PRODUCE IT TO THE EMPLOYEES, THE METZ OF THE METZGER PLANT. IT IS STRICTLY A HOME INDUSTRY. THE METZGER'S PLANT ON NORTH FLORES, WHICH THE BACON STEWING FARM SUPPLIED, EXPANDED AND INNOVATED MULTIPLE TIMES BETWEEN 1935 AND 1954 AS THE POPULARITY OF ITS PRODUCTS INCREASED AND ICE CREAM WAS A BIG PART OF THAT. IN THE EARLY 1950S, METZGER'S PROCESSED NEARLY 10,000 GALLONS OF MILK A DAY AND A THOUSAND GALLONS OF ICE CREAM WITH A NEW BARN CAPABLE OF ACCOMMODATING 40 COWS AT A TIME. THE BACON STEWING FARM WOULD'VE BEEN AMONG THE CITY'S LARGER MILK SUPPLIERS CAPABLE OF MEETING METZGER'S RIGOROUS QUALITY STANDARDS, WHICH DEPENDED ON SOUND FEEDING AND SANITATION PROGRAMS ON THE FARMS. AND THAT IS SORT OF WHERE THE FEED ROOM AND THE MILK HOUSE COME IN. UM, THE REMAINING DAIRY BUILDINGS ON THE BACON [03:10:01] STING SITE, INCLUDING THE FEED ROOM AND MILK HOUSE, SHOW HOW THE FARM ADAPTED ITS FISCAL ENVIRONMENT TO BETTER MEET THE NEEDS AND REQUIREMENTS OF THE LOCAL DAIRY PRODUCTS INDUSTRY. SO IN CONCLUSION, DARING WAS ONCE AN IMPORTANT PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S ECONOMY AND A DEMANDING WAY OF LIFE FOR MANY FARM FAMILIES LIVING ON THE CITY'S OUTSKIRTS. THE REMAINING BUILDINGS ON THE BACON STEWING FARM LINKED THIS SITE ON DAYS VALLA ROAD TO THAT VANISHED HERITAGE THROUGH FOUR DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF SIGNIFICANCE AND ARE WORTHY OF PRESERVATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. WE HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT FOR THIS ONE, SO I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ THAT NOW. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. UM, PATTY ZION IS PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY AND WE SUPPORT A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE REMAINING STRUCTURES AT 64 39 DAYS OF ALLAH. ALTHOUGH THEY STAND WITHIN AN ALTERED SETTING, IT SATISFIED THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA FOR A SOURCE SIGNIFICANCE. ONE, THESE FARM BUILDINGS ARE A VISIBLE REMINDER OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF THE DAIRY FARMING THAT ONCE PREDOMINANT, UH, THAT ONCE PRE PREDOMINATED IN NORTHWESTERN BEXAR COUNTY, IN WHICH AUTHOR GAIL BRENNAN SPENCER DESCRIBES AS A PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S HERITAGE ALMOST ERASED THE BACON. STUBING FARM TOOK ADVANTAGE OF EARLY 20TH CENTURY INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENTS AND EXPANDED OPERATIONS BETWEEN 1917 TO 1954. THE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, COINCIDED WITH THE POST WORLD WAR II PERIOD OF GROWTH IN THE TEXAS AREA INDUSTRY. AND NUMBER THREE, THE SIDE IS ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH, UH, JOSEPH V. BACON AND THE RAVEN STOOPING FAMILIES. THE STOOPING FAMILY HELPED SETTLE AND ADVANCE THE HELO LEON VALLEY COMMUNITY, INCLUDING THE ESTABLISHMENT OF ONE OF THE AREA'S FIRST FARMS, SEVERAL AREA SCHOOLS IN CONSTRUCTION OF THE FIRST SCION LUTHERAN CHURCH BUILDING. I'M CRITERION SEVEN OF THE REMAINING THREE BUILDINGS. THE LONG LOW MASONRY BUILDING IS RECOGNIZABLE AS A CATTLE BARN, SIMILAR IN BASIC FORM TO THE BULKER DAIRY BARN PRESERVED AT PHIL HARBOR PARK. UH, THESE BUILDINGS ARE AN ESTABLISHED VISUAL FEATURE THAT CAN BE SEEN BY MORE PEOPLE AS DEVELOPMENT INCREASES IN THE AREA. UM, AND THEN NUMBER 11, THIS THRIVING STRUCTURES EXEMPLIFY DAIRY FARMING AS AN IMPORTANT PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S ECONOMIC AND HISTORICAL HISTORICAL HERITAGE. THE BARN RETAINS DISTINCTIVE INTERIOR FEATURES LIKE BUILT-IN CATTLE TROUGHS. THE ACCIDENT BUILDINGS PROVIDE A VITAL LINK TO THE LAST MAJOR PERIOD OF PROSPERITY FOR DAIRY FARMERS IN BEAR. IN BEXAR COUNTY, UH, WE FIND THEY MEET CRITERIA FOR SOURCE SIGNIFICANCE AND ARE WORTHY OF RETAINING FOR IN ANY FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. OH, AND THEN WE DO, I'M SORRY. THE, THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE IS ALSO ON THE LINE. UM, EDWARD, LET ME UNMUTE YOU. EDWARD, YOU THERE? YES, I'M HERE. AND I HAVE, UH, ASHLEY FAIRMAN. ASHLEY, ARE YOU ON THE LINE? I'M HERE, YES. HI, GOOD EVENING. HI. UM, UH, THANKS, ED. UM, HI EVERYONE. UM, THIS IS ASHLEY FAIRMONT WITH KILLING GRIFFIN IN FAIRMONT, AND I'M HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF DAYS OF ALL AVENS, UM, WHO HAS PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY. IT'S ABOUT 12.5 ACRES IN TOTAL, UM, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. I'M ALSO JOINED THIS EVENING BY, UH, OWNER REPRESENTATIVES FROM CASEY DEVELOPMENT, ORI KOWSKI, AND DREW CAREWAY, AND ALSO, UH, RANDY DOVE AND JAMES ROCKY WITH THE SAGE GROUP. UH, THE SAGE GROUP IS A PROJECT ARCHITECT, AND THEY SPECIALIZE IN THE MASTER PLANNING SITE PLANNING, ARCHITECTURE, AND LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURE. UM, AND, AND FIRST TO NOTE THE OWNER IS, IS OPPOSED TO THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION. WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS CLEAR. UH, WE, WE DON'T SUPPORT THE REQUEST TO DESIGNATE, UM, BEING CONSIDERED THIS EVENING. WE DO UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THE COMMUNITY'S PASSION AND SUPPORT FOR RETAINING THE STRUCTURE. UH, WE WERE NOT AWARE OF THIS POSITION UNTIL WE STARTED THE, THE REZONING PROCESS FOR THIS TRACT. AND AT THAT TIME, WE MET WITH AND COMMUNICATED THE COMM WITH THE COMMUNITY, INCLUDING, UH, MS. DWYER WITH STEPHANIE, AND LEARNED OF THEIR SUPPORT FOR RETAINING THE STRUCTURE. UH, THERE WERE REQUESTS TO, TO KEEP IT AND, YOU KNOW, TRY TO CONVERT IT INTO SOME SORT OF COMMUNITY ACCESSIBLE SPACE, SOMETHING LIKE A RESTAURANT. UM, SO THE SAGE GROUP AND THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY HAVE BEEN REVIEWING, RETAINING THE STRUCTURE BASED ON THIS FEEDBACK. AND, AND RANDY AND JAMES CAN DISCUSS IN GREATER DETAIL THEIR REVIEW OF THE STRUCTURE FROM AN ARCHITECTURAL PERSPECTIVE. UM, AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ADAPTABILITY TO A FUTURE USE OR, OR ANY IMPROVEMENTS IT'S FEASIBLE. UM, HOWEVER, DESPITE THIS REVIEW, WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE STRUCTURE RISES TO THE LEVEL OF A HISTORIC DESIGNATION. UM, STAFF AND THE APPLICANT NOTE THAT THE STRUCTURE IS A VISIBLE REMINDER OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF DAIRY FARMING. UH, IT'S IDENTIFI IDENTIFICATION, EXCUSE ME, WITH THE BACON AND SOOTHING FAMILIES, AND THAT IT'S A VISUAL STATEMENT, UH, AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR THEIR DESIGNATION. BUT, BUT WE DISAGREE, UH, WITH REGARDS TO THE CULTURAL HERITAGE AND IDENTIFICATION WITH PARTICULAR FAMILY, STAFF, AND THE APPLICANT BOTH NOTE, UH, THE REPORT AND IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION FOR HISTORIC FARMS AND RANCHES OF BEXAR COUNTY. UM, IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT, VERY THOROUGH HISTORY AND REVIEW OF THE EVOLUTION OF ARCHITECTURAL INDUSTRIES WITHIN BEXAR COUNTY, UM, AND THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES THAT SUPPORTED THOSE INDUSTRIES. AND THE [03:15:01] STAFF IN THEIR REPORT REFERENCED THIS STUDY, AND THEY NOTE THAT THE LOCAL DAIRY INDUSTRY FLOURISHED BETWEEN 1880 AND 1950, AND THAT THE IMPROVED BARN AND OUT BUILDINGS COINCIDED WITH POST WORLD WAR II PERIOD OF GROWTH IN DAIRY INDUSTRY. UM, BUT IN REVIEWING THE NATIONAL REGISTER DOCUMENT, IT ACTUALLY SPECIFIED THAT DAIRY FARMING FLOURISHED IN THE BEXAR COUNTY BETWEEN 1880 AND 1920. AND HAS BEEN NOTED, THIS STRUCTURE HERE THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 1954. SO IT SEEMS THAT DURING 1880 AND 1920, THE REPORT SAYS THAT BEXAR COUNTY WAS A MAJOR PLAYER IN THE TEXAS DAIRY INDUSTRY. UM, HOWEVER, THIS STRUCTURE, AS MENTIONED POST DATES, THIS PERIOD. UH, AS ALSO NOTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, THIS DAIRY FARM HAD OLDER STRUCTURES THAT WERE REMOVED AND, AND DEMOLISHED, AND THAT WAS APPROVED. SO THESE STRUCTURES, YOU KNOW, MAY HAVE BEEN A BETTER EXAMPLE OF DAIRY FARMING DURING THE PERIOD WHEN IT FLOURISHED. UH, THE DEMOLITION OF THOSE STRUCTURES WAS ALREADY APPROVED. UM, ALSO THE REPORT NOTES, THE EXTENSIVE RESEARCH AND TIME THAT WENT INTO EVALUATING HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES, INCLUDING, UM, YOU KNOW, RESEARCH AND FIELD WORK OVER SEVERAL YEARS. AND THIS NOMINATION, UH, TO THE NATIONAL REGISTER INCLUDED 85 STRUCTURES WITHIN BEXAR COUNTY THAT THEY RECOMMENDED AS SIGNIFICANT TOWARDS OUR COUNTY'S AGRICULTURAL HISTORY. BUT THE JD BACON FARM AND BARN WAS NOT INCLUDED ON THIS LIST. UM, AND IT'S ALSO MEANT MENTIONED, UM, THE STRUCTURES THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY DEMOLISHED. UH, SOME WERE DEMOLISHED FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF JV BACON PARKWAY, WHICH OCCURRED ABOUT 20 14, 20 15. UM, THIS ROAD CONSTRUCTION IS, IS WHAT HAS CREATED A LOT OF VISIBILITY FOR THIS BARN, WHICH WAS ABOUT FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO. AND ADDITIONALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE JUST THINK THE MOST DISTINCTIVE FEATURES OF DAIRY CULTURE, UH, WITHIN THIS BUILDING, IF IT IS, YOU KNOW, DEMONSTRATIVE OF THAT, UM, ARE THE ACTUAL DAIRY TROUGHS THAT ARE LOCATED ON THE INTERIOR OF THE BUILDING, WHICH IS NOT EVEN VISIBLE. SO, UM, WELL, WE AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE SOME INTERESTING ASPECTS OF THIS STRUCTURE AND THE OWNER HAS BEEN AGREEABLE TO LOOKING AT RETAINING IT. WE JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT RISES TO THE LEVEL OF A HISTORIC DESIGNATION. UH, AND WITH THAT, RANDY JAMES, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU TO DISCUSS, UH, THE STRUCTURE IN GREATER DETAIL. THIS IS JAMES RAY AND I'M AN ARCHITECT. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE ON THESE BUILDINGS IS A, A, UH, STRUCTURAL PLATE TILE BUILDING THAT'S A SINGLE WIDTH WALL THAT HAS A SIMPLE STICK FRAME TRUSS SYSTEM ON THE TOP WITH METAL PANELS, NO INSULATION SYSTEM. THE, THE ONE THING THAT COMES UP FOR OWNERSHIP HERE IS WHAT KIND OF ADAPTIVE REUSE IS POSSIBLE FOR THIS BUILDING. AND THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE TAKEN CARE OF, UM, TO PROGRESS WITH ANY KIND OF REUSE IS THE FLOORING SYSTEM THAT'S IN THE BUILDING. IT'S A PORT PLACE CONCRETE SLAB. THAT PORT PLACE CONCRETE SLAB IS VERY SPECIFIC BECAUSE IT HAS, UM, SLOPE FLOORS FOR DRAINAGE. IT HAS SEWAGE TROUGHS, UM, POURED IN PLACE INTO IT. AND ALSO THE FEED TRS ARE PUT IN PLACE PART OF THAT SYSTEM. SO ALL OF THAT, UM, PRODUCT OR DESIGNATION OF THE BUILDING NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED FOR WHATEVER KIND OF ADAPTIVE REUSE THAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO WITH THAT BUILDING. AND IT WOULD BE FAIRLY EXTENSIVE TO DO THAT WORK. THERE'S NOT MUCH TO THAT BUILDING IN, IN STRUCTURE, SO WE WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERING A LARGE PORTION OF THAT BUILDING, UM, JUST TO GET IT INTO AN ADAPTIVE REUSE SITUATION. UM, SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT KIND OF CONTEND WITH THAT ALSO IS JUST GETTING ACCESSIBILITY AND GETTING MODERN ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS TO GET IN AND USE AND HAVE AN ACCESSIBLE PATHWAY THROUGH THAT BUILDING. UM, I DON'T THINK I REALLY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE OTHER ABOUT THAT BUILDING OTHER THAN THAT. IT, IT DOES HAVE AS, AS, UM, ASHLEY NOTED A, A, UM, A BUCOLIC SETTING TO IT AND, AND LOOK TO IT THAT WE RECOGNIZE. BUT THE SIZE OF THAT BUILDING IN THE ABILITY FOR US TO BLEND THAT INTO A PRODUCT THAT WILL WORK FOR OWNERSHIP IS, IS, UM, PRETTY DAUNTING. AND THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT WOULD TAKE TO GET THERE IS PRETTY DAUNTING ALSO, ASHLEY. THAT'S GREAT. THANKS JAMES. UM, ED, I THINK THAT'S ALL WE HAVE, BUT, YOU KNOW, HAPPY OBVIOUSLY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. OKAY. [03:20:01] THANK YOU. AND WE'LL KEEP WITH THE APPLICANT AND, UH, THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVES ON THE LINE IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS. MS. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I HAVE A A A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. ONE FOR THE, THE OWNER, THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE. HAS THERE BEEN A STRUCTURAL EVALUATION, UH, DONE OF THESE BUILDINGS BY A, UH, PROFESSIONAL STRUCTURAL ENGINEER? UM, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE KIND A STEP ONE FOR ANY SERIOUS EVALUATION TO SEE, UH, IF IT'S ADAPTABLE FOR, FOR USE. JAMES, RANDY, DO YOU KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION? THERE'S NOT BEEN A, A LICENSED STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING EVALUATION OF IT. NO. OKAY. UM, AND I, AND I APPRECIATE ALL THE, THE COMPLEXITY THAT YOU SHARED ABOUT, UH, THE EXISTING, UH, FOUNDATION AND THAT KIND OF THING, BUT THAT, THAT WOULD BE KIND OF STEP ONE FOR ME IF I WERE, UH, THE ARCHITECT BEING ASKED TO ADAPT, UH, THIS TO SOME POSSIBLE USE IS FIRST OF ALL, CALL, CALL OUT A, UH, NOT JUST ANY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, BUT ONE WHO'S USED TO, TO EVALUATING, UH, HISTORIC EXISTING STRUCTURES AND DOES FORENSICS WORK. UM, YEAH, I, I'M, I'M, UH, SYMPATHETIC TO THE, UH, THE DESIGNATION JUST KNOWING HOW THIS ASPECT OF, UH, RURAL, UH, OF OUR RURAL LANDSCAPE AND RURAL, RURAL HERITAGE IS REALLY VASTLY, UH, DISAPPEARING VERY QUICKLY. AND, UM, JUST TO KIND OF DO A PLUG THAT, UH, THE NATIONAL REGISTER, UH, NOMINATION THAT WAS, UM, UH, THAT WAS PREPARED FOR THE FARM AND RANCH, IT IS A SIGNIFICANT PHENOMENAL DOCUMENT THAT, UH, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY AND A LOT OF, UM, A LOT OF VOLUNTEERS BEHIND THE SCENES, UH, WORKED ON. AND IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT, IT'S, IT IS A, A BIG EYE-OPENER. WE'VE BEEN FORTUNATE TO WORK ON A COUPLE OF THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE ON THAT, ON THAT LIST. SO IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING I HAVE A HEIGHTENED AWARENESS OF. WE ARE, IT IS REALLY, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS KIND OF COMING INTO MID 20TH CENTURY, THAT THAT IS STILL KIND OF PART OF THAT RURAL, UH, HISTORY THAT IS REALLY VANISHING VERY QUICKLY. SO, UM, I, I AM, I'M, I'M RETICENT TO ENCUMBER, YOU KNOW, THIS PROPERTY WITH THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OR WITH, WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION, BUT I DO THINK THAT THESE, UH, HAVE MERIT AND I'D, I'D BE CURIOUS TO HEAR WHAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS THINK. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH AND I, UH, I, I SHARE, UH, A LOT OF YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I KNOW THIS IS, UH, FIRST STEP FOR US, AND OUR JOB HERE IS TO MAKE A DETER, UH, A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE BASED ON THE CRITERIA. AND IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT IT MEETS AT LEAST THREE, IF NOT FOUR, OF THE, UH, 16 CRITERIA OF WHICH THREE IS REQUIRED. SO I WOULD BE SUPPORTING OF A FINDING TODAY. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. I AGREE. SORRY. AND, UM, I ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ALSO UNDERSTAND WE'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL. WE'RE NOT FINAL, WE'RE NOT DOING ANY, UM, THIS IS NOT, UH, THIS IS DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT BECOMES A HISTORIC LANDSCAPE, RIGHT? IT JUST, IT'S A RECOMMENDATION. THAT'S RIGHT. I MEAN, THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST STEP IN THE PROCESS IS DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT IT IS ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION. UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT THIS RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE. UH, FROM THERE, ONLY CITY COUNCIL CAN INITIATE THE DESIGNATION PROCESS AND OUR PURVIEW IS HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. UM, IF THE CLIENT WOULD MOVE, UH, FURTHER, UM, AFTER THE DESIGNATION AND STILL COME WITH A DEMOLITION, THEN WE CAN TALK ENGINEERING REPORTS, UM, ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, ET CETERA. YEAH, IT WOULD BE REVIEWED AS A HISTORIC LANDMARK. RIGHT. THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER AND, UM, I CONCUR WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH AND, UH, THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT THE, UH, IT DOES MEET AT LEAST THREE, MAYBE FOUR CRITERIA, WHICH IS WHAT, UH, WE NEED TO BE REVIEWING. UH, JUST A NOTE TO THE, UM, OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE THAT SHOULD THIS GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS AND BECOME A, A LANDMARK PROPERTY THAT THE CITY DOES HAVE, UM, UH, PROPERTY TAX, UH, INCENTIVES FOR REDEVELOPMENT OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES THAT, UH, UH, HOPEFULLY YOU WOULD, UH, CONSIDER, UH, IF YOU DECIDE TO REDEVELOP THIS PROPERTY. MAY I MAKE ONE MORE COMMENT? AND THIS IS, THIS IS BETH STANDERFORD. YES. [03:25:01] OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO ADDRESS REAL QUICKLY, UM, TWO POINTS THAT ASHLEY RAISED. ONE, UM, WITH THE BACON STEUBEN FARM NOT BEING IN THE NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION, AS YOU'RE AWARE, THERE'S A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF SIGNIFICANCE REQUIRED FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER THAN THERE IS FOR LOCAL LANDMARK DESIGNATION. UM, AND THERE ARE MANY LOCAL LANDMARKS THAT ARE NOT LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER. AND AS FAR AS THE, THE DATES OF THE DAIRY FARMING, UM, THERE IS A SECTION OF THE NATIONAL REGISTER REPORT THAT COVERS WORLD WAR II TO 1970, AND I'M QUOTING WHERE IT SAYS THE DAIRY INDUSTRY IN TEXAS ACCELERATED AFTER WORLD WAR II AND MILK PRODUCTION INCREASED SIMULTANEOUSLY. UM, AS FAR AS THE CONSTRUCTION DATES OF BARN, THE INITIAL STATEMENT OF THE SIGNIFICANCE THAT I SENT TO O H P STAFF HAD REFERENCED, UM, ACCORDING TO FAMILY HISTORY AND TWO MECHANICS LIENS ON THE PROPERTY, UM, THAT THE BARNES COULD DATE FROM THE LATE 1940S TO THE EARLY 1950S, BASED ON A $12,000 MECHANICS LIEN FROM 1948. AND I THINK IT WAS A $4,000 MECHANICS LIEN FROM 1954. UM, SO THIS PARTICULAR FARM, EVEN THOUGH SHE'S CORRECT THAT IN THE 1950S BEXAR COUNTY'S PRODUCTION OVERALL DECLINED, UM, THE FACT THAT THEY WERE INCREASING, THEIR PRODUCTION SEEMS TO INDICATE THAT THEY WERE KIND OF GOING AGAINST THAT GRAIN AND RESPONDING TO THE DEMAND THAT STILL EXISTED, AT LEAST AT THEIR SUPPLIER. THE NEXT STEER CHAIRMAN, UH, MS. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, UM, IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER COMMENTS, UM, I MOVE FOR A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR 6 4 39 DALLA AND RECOMMEND THAT CITY COUNCIL INITIATE, UH, THE REZONING PROCESS BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH G AND THE, UH, EVIDENCE THAT WAS, UH, PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT FOR AT LEAST FOUR CATEGORIES OF ELIGIBILITY. SECOND COMMISSIONER GROUP, SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND FOR APPROVAL. UM, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ A AYE FISH. AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELAZQUEZ, NAYYY, UH, CARPENTER AYE. GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN, UH, IS ABSENT. FETZER AYE. LIFO AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU EVERYONE. UM, ITEM 19, [19. 20-7069 Address/Description: 315 SPOFFORD HDRC Case No.: 2020-524 Historic District Name: Government Hill Applicant: Rusty Beanland/Tuff Shed Request: Garage installation City Council Dist.: 2] WE, ITEM 19, CASE NUMBER 20 25, 24 AT THREE 15 SPOT, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL A 576 SQUARE FOOT REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON THE FINDINGS WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE STRUCTURE FEATURES A BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING PROFILE WITH 10 INCH WIDTH CONSTRUCTED WITH WOOD, OR SMOOTH MARTY PLANK TWO FENESTRATION THAT THE STRUCTURE FEATURES ONE OVER ONE S WINDOWS INSTEAD OF THE PROPOSED SIDING, SLIDING AND TRANSOM WINDOWS THREE, THE WINDOW PRODUCT THAT THE FINAL WINDOW PRODUCT ADHERES TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS THROUGH WINDOWS INSTALLED IN NEW CONSTRUCTION AND SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO PURCHASING N FOUR, THAT THE GARAGE DOOR SHOULD BE SEPARATED INTO TWO GARAGE BAYS BETWEEN EIGHT AND 10 FEET EACH, AND FEATURE WOOD MATERIAL AND TRADITIONAL PANEL DESIGNS. I HAVE THE APPLICANT, UH, RUSTY BELAND WITH, UH, T SHED ON THE LINE. RUSTY, IF YOU'D LIKE TO PRESENT THE PROPOSAL TO THE COMMISSION AND THEN ADDRESS EACH OF THE STIPULATIONS. OKAY. SO THIS IS JUST A SIMPLE GARAGE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO INSTALL SO THAT THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, CAR STORAGE FOR THEIR PROPERTY. UM, AS OF SOME OF THE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, I MEAN, GOING FROM THE HORIZONTAL SLIDING WINDOW TO A SINGLE HUNG WOULD BE NO PROBLEM. UM, BUT CHANGING TO THE, UH, BOARD AND BATTEN OR EVEN THE, UH, CONCRETE SIDING IS GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, A PRICE, UH, DIFFERENCE WITH THE CUSTOMER. UH, THAT COULD BE AN ADDITIONAL, YOU KNOW, 25 TO $3,000. UM, PLUS IF WE SPLIT THE GARAGE DOOR, WE'RE TALKING ANOTHER $2,500. UM, SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO SEE IF WE CAN JUST DO A BASIC GARAGE THAT'S ACTUALLY STILL GONNA MEET THE STANDARDS OF THE AREA, AND THE FACT THAT [03:30:01] IT'S GONNA BE BEHIND THE HOUSE AND TECHNICALLY IN AN ALLEY AND TUCKED BEHIND OTHER BUILDINGS, IT WON'T REALLY BE SEEN AS, UH, CLOSELY AS IF IT WAS ON THE, THE FRONT STREET. COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, I'D LIKE TO ASK, UH, APPLICANT A QUESTION THERE. THERE'S LIKE A FOR SALE SIGN ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. IS THIS FOR A NEW OWNER OR FOR THE, THE OWNER BEFORE IT SELLS? UM, THERE WASN'T, I MEAN, THE, THEY BUILT THE, THE BUILDING ORIGINALLY SOLD ABOUT A YEAR OR TWO AGO TO THE, TO HENRY CORDOVA. UH, RIGHT NOW HE'S THE CURRENT OWNER. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. UH, MADRID, MY, MY NAME'S ANTHONY MADRID. I'M THE GENERAL MANAGER HERE AT TUFTED. UH, SO IN, IN LOOKING AT WHAT WAS BEING ASKED, I, I DO WANNA MENTION THAT THE, UM, WINDOW PRODUCT TO GO FROM A, YOU KNOW, VINYL WINDOW TO A PLAID WINDOW, UH, THAT THERE'S ANOTHER SIGNIFICANT IMPACT FROM THE CUSTOMER FINANCIALLY. A CLAD WINDOW, UH, YOU KNOW, IS, IS FOUR TIMES THE PRICE OF, OF WHAT THEIR JUST STANDARD WINDOW IS. UH, SO THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE ANOTHER IMPACT FOR 'EM. WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING WITH THE CHANGES THAT ARE BEING RECOMMENDED. UH, THIS CUSTOMER WILL BE IN THE BALLPARK OF SOMEWHERE ABOUT, UH, EIGHT TO $10,000 IN ADDITIONAL FEES, SPLITTING THE GARAGE, GOING TO WOOD, CHANGING THE WINDOWS, REMOVING ALL OF THE, WE'D HAVE TO REMOVE ALL OF THOSE SMALL WINDOWS 'CAUSE THERE'S NO POSSIBILITY THAT HE'D BE ABLE TO AFFORD ALL THOSE SMALL WINDOWS. UH, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THE SIDING, UH, TO, UH, YOU KNOW, A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PROFILE AS WELL, SO THAT THE IMPACT ON, ON THE, UH, ON THE HOMEOWNER, THE, THE RESIDENT OF SAN ANTONIO IS SIGNIFICANT. I GUESS THE, UH, THE ISSUE WE HAVE HERE IS THESE, UH, PREFABRICATED PRODUCTS. UM, WE'VE SEEN A COUPLE OF, UH, CASES WHERE THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO ALSO IMPLEMENT THIS, THIS HOUSE IS ON A CORNER LOT. I KNOW IT SAID IT IS AN ALLEY, BUT IT DOES HAVE A STREET NAME. SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S AN ALLEY OR STREET, BUT ACCORDING TO THE PICTURE, IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, I MEAN, IT, IT WILL BE SOMEWHAT, UM, VISIBLE. I MEAN, ALSO BECAUSE OF THE OPENNESS OF THE LOT. UM, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY I, I JUST CAN'T, I CAN'T, I THINK STAFF HAS GOT A RIGHT. I MEAN, WE CAN'T APPROVE THIS TYPE OF, UH, MATERIAL ALL IN ALL, OR PREFABRICATED, UM, SHEDS. I THINK MAYBE THE APPLICANT COULD CONSIDER GETTING IT BUILT FROM SCRATCH. WELL, SO WHEN YOU SAY PREFABRICATED, THE ONLY THING THAT, UH, IS DIFFERENT FROM BUILDING IT FROM SCRATCH. AND WHAT WE DO IS WE ACTUALLY HAVE A MANUFACTURING FACILITY THAT'S BEEN HERE IN SAN ANTONIO FOR 28 YEARS. UH, WE MANUFACTURE THOSE, BUILT THOSE WALLS IN OUR FACTORY, AND WE SIMPLY JUST GO AND STAND THEM UP. WHEN YOU DO A BUILDING THAT IS GONNA BE DONE BY SCRATCH, FROM SCRATCH, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY JUST TAKING OUT THE EXACT SAME PIECES OF WOOD THAT WE'RE TAKING OUT, AND THEY'RE STICK FRAMING AND THEN ATTACHING THE SIDING TO THAT. SO WE ARE, WE CUT OUT THAT MIDDLEMAN AND WE JUST BUILT THOSE IN-HOUSE. WE WE'RE THE NATION'S LARGEST GARAGE MANUFACTURER. UH, WE WE'RE AT EVERY SINGLE HOME DEPOT AND WORK THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. WE'VE NEVER BEEN FACED WITH THIS TYPE OF CHALLENGE, UH, IN, IN, YOU KNOW, OUR MATERIALS OR, UH, HAVING TO ASK A CUSTOMER TO START FROM SCRATCH, UH, AND, AND, AND BUILD UP OUR WAY IS THE EASIEST WAY AND MOST ECONOMICAL WAY FOR THE CONSUMER HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. WELL, THIS IS, UH, CHAIRMAN FETZER, AND, UM, WE CAN UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE YOUR EXPERTISE AND, AND YOUR, UH, BUSINESS MODEL. BUT, UH, OUR PURVIEW IS TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS APPROPRIATE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND, UH, I THINK THE STAFF HAS THIS ONE. CORRECT. SO IN ORDER FOR US TO GET THIS TO PASS, WE NEED TO, UH, GO BACK TO OUR CUSTOMER. AND, UH, FOR FENESTRATION, WE NEED, WE NEED TO CHANGE WINDOWS TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WINDOW, IS WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED SEPARATES THE GARAGE. MR. CHAIR, YOU, I'M NOT SURE WHAT, WELL, I, I'D LIKE TO TRY TO ANSWER. I, I'D LIKE TRY TO GET IN FRONT OF THIS, UH, AND, AND TRY TO HELP YOU AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY CAN. THERE, THERE'S A, A, A, A, A COMMITTEE THAT YOU CAN MEET WITH, [03:35:01] UH, WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS. SO, LIKE SOMEBODY COULD RIGHT NOW COULD MAKE A MOTION TO SEND YOU TO A COMMITTEE, AND THEN YOU COULD HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AND FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO WHAT IT IS THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. BECAUSE THE COMMISSION IS A DEMOCRATIC VOTE, RIGHT? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO FOR A MAJORITY. AND, AND THIS IS, THIS IS, UH, A PREFABRICATED BUILDING IN A HISTORIC CONTEXT IS A REALLY, REALLY HARD, UH, CELL, UNLESS IT'S SOME, UH, ARCHITECTURAL, UH, STATEMENT THAT'S BEING MADE IN THIS CASE, IT'S, IT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT THE INTENT, RIGHT? THE INTENT IS TO BUILD THE CHEAPEST, BEST MADE, I GUESS, UH, UM, UH, GARAGE IS POSSIBLE. BUT IF YOU GO TO THAT COMMITTEE, I'M SURE THAT THERE'LL BE COMMISSIONERS THAT'LL BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU ALL OF THE REASONS WHY THEY WOULDN'T, UM, THEY WOULDN'T VOTE, IN WHICH CASE YOU WOULDN'T GET A MAJORITY VOTE FOR, FOR THIS PROJECT. I WISH THERE WAS AN EASIER WAY TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY THIS IS NOT WITHIN THE CRITERIA, BUT, UH, IF YOU MEET WITH COMMISSIONERS, I'M SURE THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU A A A A A A WELL, UM, DISPLAYED. UM, BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I, I'M LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY TO TELL, TO TELL THIS APPLICANT THAT THERE'S NO WAY HE'S GONNA GET THIS PASSED. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH, I THINK, I THINK THE STAFF, I UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT THAT. I THINK THAT STAFF'S POSITION, UH, ON MATERIALITY FENESTRATION GARAGE DOOR IS, UH, IS WHAT THE GUIDELINES CALL FOR. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S RIGHT HERE. I DON'T THINK THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO NECESSARILY OR SPECIFIC WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. WE LOOK AT, UH, ALL SORTS OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURE PRODUCTS THAT WE ALSO ASK SAME GUIDELINES. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATION. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. I SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. BROOKE. AYE BET, SIR. AYE, . AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. [20. 20-7086 Address/Description: 245 W WILDWOOD HDRC Case No.: 2020-436 Historic District Name: Olmos Park Terrace Applicant: MCGOVERN TIMOTHY J & CHELSEA Request: Construction of a 2-story rear addition, fenestration modifications, exterior alterations City Council Dist.: 1] UM, ITEM 20, RACHEL. AGENDA ITEM 20 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2020 DASH 4 3 6 2 45 WEST WILDWOOD. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO ONE CONSTRUCT, A 528 SQUARE FOOT REAR ADDITION. TWO, RAISE THE HEIGHT OF THE EXISTING GARAGE ROOF, THREE, PARTIALLY ENCLOSED THE FRONT PORCH. FOUR, RELOCATE THE FRONT DOOR TO FACE THE STREET FIVE, REPLACE THE EXISTING FRONT DOOR ITEM ONE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT A REAR ADDITION. BASED ON FINDINGS, A THROUGH J STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A LINE OF SITE STUDY SHOWING THE VISIBILITY OF THE TWO STORY REAR ADDITION FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT SIMPLIFIES THE PROPOSED ROOF FORM ON THE ADDITION TO REDUCE THE VISIBILITY FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY BASED ON FINDING F THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSES A FENESTRATION PATTERN, WINDOW OPENING PROPORTIONS AND MATERIALS THAT ARE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES, THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS, AND THE HISTORIC EXAMPLES FOUND IN THE AL ALMOST PARK TERRACE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AS NOTED IN FINDINGS H H THROUGH J, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FINAL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD WINDOWS AS NOTED IN FINDING I. AND FIVE, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A LANDSCAPING PLAN, ITEMS 2, 3, 4, AND FIVE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS K THROUGH N AND I HAVE THE APPLICANT CHELSEA MCGOVERN ON THE LINE. CHELSEA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSIONERS? ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU. HOWDY, EVERYONE. UM, I KNOW I'VE BEEN ON HERE SINCE THREE O'CLOCK WATCHING Y'ALL, SO, UM, THANK Y'ALL FOR YOUR TIME. AND, UM, IF YOU CAN JUST, EDWARD, IF YOU CAN START ON PAGE ONE OF THE P D F. THERE'S A HUGE DELAY IN MY VIDEO, UH, VERSUS MY TALKING, SO JUST, UM, BEAR WITH ME. UM, SO WHAT I'M SHOWING IN MY PROPOSAL ON PAGE ONE IS THE CURRENT HOUSE, WHICH IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE. AND MY ADDITION, IT'S KIND OF LIKE, KIND OF LIKE A, UM, DETACHED BUT ATTACHED BY A STAIRCASE HALLWAY. UM, I WANT IT TO BE KIND OF DISTINGUISHED AS NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE SO THAT IT COMPLIES WITH HISTORIC DESIGNATION, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO APPROPRIATELY [03:40:02] DO A FACADE, WHATEVER Y'ALL RECOMMEND. I HAVE PROPOSED, UM, SOME HARDY BACKER FORWARD SIDING THAT IT'S SMOOTH AND WOULD LOOK LIKE ASBESTOS SIDING, WHICH IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, ANYWAYS, SO THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST FLOOR. UM, AGAIN, LET'S, LET'S SEE, I'M GONNA GO DOWN TO PAGE TWO IS JUST THE SITE PLAN. AGAIN, I'D BE ABOUT 20 FEET FROM THE BACK FENCE LINE. AND, UM, YES, I DO KNOW THAT THERE'S A 40 FOOT OUTBUILDING SETBACK LINE. HOWEVER, THERE ARE MANY BUILDINGS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE 10 FEET AWAY FROM THE BACK, AND SOME ARE ORIGINAL BUILDINGS. AND SO I, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH, INCONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SORRY. UM, AGAIN, PAGE THREE IS JUST SHOWING THAT IN COLOR. SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE SURVEY WAS A SCAN FROM OUR ORIGINAL PURCHASE OF THE HOUSE IN 2008. OKAY. I DO WANNA REDO THE FENESTRATION, WHICH IS PAGE FOUR. UM, I HAVE A, A PANEL FENCING, A COW PANEL FENCING, AND, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO DO THE GOLD OUTLINE, THE LEFT SIDE. AND THERE ARE MANY HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE THAT, UM, FENCE STATION BOUNDARY. AND SO GOING TO FIVE IS JUST SHOWING THE SECOND STORY, UH, FLOOR PLAN. AND THEN IF YOU GO TO SIX IS WHERE Y'ALL ARE GONNA PROBABLY RIP ME APART, BUT THIS IS THE ELEVATION FROM THE FRONT. ARE Y'ALL LISTENING? OH, YES. WE'RE, WE'RE WATCHING. GO AHEAD, . OKAY. ALL RIGHT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT. SO ARE Y'ALL ON PAGE SIX? WE OKAY. ARE ON PAGE 22 OF THE POSTED FILE, AND IT DOES SIX OF YOUR FILE? YES, CORRECT. OH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UM, BUT GOING TO THE FRONT ELEVATION WITH THE GOOGLE TERRAIN SHOWING SLOPE, WHICH IS THE NEXT SLIDE, EDWARD. YEAH, SO THIS IS THE ELEVATION. SO YOU CAN SEE THERE'S ABOUT A, I THINK, WHAT IS IT? IT IS LIKE SEVEN FEET, I THINK FROM THE PEAK OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE TO THE PEAK OF THE, THE ADDITION. AND ORIGINALLY I HAD A, A ROOF LINE, UM, THAT WAS VERY SHALLOW. AND, UM, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER ME, BUT YOU WERE LIKE, I DON'T LIKE THAT RANCH STYLE. LOOK, I DO. I REMEMBER IT WAS A, YEAH. AND SO I LITERALLY TOOK THE ORIGINAL ROOF AND I FOOT FITTED IN WITH THE, THE SIZE OF THE ADDITIONS, AND THEN I HAD TO DO LIKE A, A, A LITTLE OFFSET. UM, BUT I CAN, ANYWAYS, THAT'S WHAT I HAD TO DO WITH THAT. UM, SO ANYWAYS, UM, SO WITH THAT PAGE, PERFECT EDWARD, UM, I WANNA RAISE THE GARAGE ROOF BY A FOOT IN ORDER TO HAVE THE CLEARANCE FOR NINE FOOT INTERIOR CEILING, LIKE THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT I WANNA JUST, I NEED TO RAISE THE, THE FLOOR IN THE GARAGE AREA. SO WHEN I CONVERT IT, IT IS THE SAME CEILING HEIGHTS AND FLOOR HEIGHTS TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, WHICH IS THE PIER AND BEAM HOUSE. UM, REBUILD THE ORIGINAL GARAGE DOORS, WHICH WERE REMOVED AT SOME POINT AND REPLACED WITH, UM, CRAP SIDING. AND THEN I WANT TO REPLACE THE EXTERIOR DOOR WITH A 15 PANE DOOR, LIKE THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I WANNA MOVE IT JUST SLIGHTLY TO THE RIGHT FOR ENTRANCE. UM, ACCESSIBILITY, EASE, MAKE IT EASIER. AND FOR MY DESIGN INTERIOR, UM, I RE I WANNA REMOVE THE CARPORT AND I DON'T WANNA REPLACE IT WITH ANYTHING. SO, UH, IN CONFORMING, CONFORMING WITH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, CONVERT THE BACK HALF OF THE FRONT PORCH INTO AN INTERIOR SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO YOU CAN SEE, LET ME GET WITH Y'ALL. SO THE FRONT PORCHES, MY ORIGINAL FRONT PORCH COLUMNS, I BELIEVE FELL OR WERE REMOVED. I KNOW THAT MY FRONT PORCH USED TO BE A SCREENED IN PORCH OR A GLASS PORCH [03:45:01] PER THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S, UM, HISTORICAL, UH, UM, KNOWLEDGE. AND, UM, THERE'S ALWAYS AN EXTERIOR DOOR TO EVERY ROOM. THAT'S WHAT THOMAN, HD THORMAN USED TO DO. AND SO YOU CAN SEE ON MY PORCH THAT THERE IS A ROCKED IN RECTANGLE, AND I JUST WENT TO TOP THAT WALL FORWARD REPLACE WITH AN ORIGINAL DOOR. I'M GOING TO HAVE IT REBUILT AND, UM, AND PUT A LITTLE CIRCLE WINDOW FOR CHARACTER. SO, UM, A LOT OF THESE PORCHES HAVE BEEN CONVERTED IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, AS PROCEED ON THAT SAME SLIDE IN THE MIDDLE BO BOTTOM MIDDLE ROW, UM, THAT SHOW THAT IT NOT ORIGINAL AND ORIGINAL, BUT WAS CONVERTED. UM, AND I JUST WANT TO CONVERT HALF OF IT, THE BACK HALF AND STILL HAVE THE FRONT HALF LOOK LIKE A, THE FULL PORCH. UM, AND THEN ON THE EAST SIDE, I WANT TO ADD, IF YOU SEE THE, GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, EDWARD. UM, SO IT'S PAGE 10 ON MY, ANYWAYS, THERE'S THIS, UM, BACK CORNER, THE EAST CORNER BACK EAST CORNER, WHICH IS A, A ADDITIONAL, IT WAS A SUNROOM THAT WAS ADDED IN THE SIXTIES, I BELIEVE. AND I WOULD LIKE TO TEAR THAT OFF AND REBUILD A MASTER BEDROOM SUITE BACK THERE. THAT LOOKS KIND OF SIMILAR TO THIS. POP OUT TO THE LEFT. THAT'S ANOTHER HOUSE THAT'S AN ORIGINAL, UM, POP OUT. ARE YOU ON PAGE 10, EDWARD? THERE YOU GO. YEAH, PAGE 10. YEAH. OKAY. THERE YOU GO. UM, AND THEN, OKAY, IF YOU GO TO PAGE 12, THIS IS, UH, EAST ELEVATION WITH THE GOOGLE TERRAIN. OBVIOUSLY GOOGLE TERRAIN AND EXACTLY HOW HIGH MY, UM, FOUNDATION IS, UH, RELATIVE TO THAT IS NOT ACCURATE IN THIS PICTURE, BUT I THINK IT'S CLOSE. I OBVIOUSLY WOULD TAKE THIS TO A SURVEYOR AND, AND A BUILD DESIGN FIRM ONCE I HAVE APPROVAL AND GET WHATEVER ADJUSTED TO THAT. BUT THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE TERRAIN LOOKS LIKE IN MY HOUSE. UM, IN ADDITION, OKAY, UH, THE COLUMNS, I FEEL LIKE Y'ALL WOULD APPROVE THAT. THE FRONT DOOR, UM, AGAIN, THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL AND THEN'S GONNA MOVE FORWARD. SO THE WEST SIDE OF THE HOUSE ON PAGE 22 IS, IS, UH, THIS IS THE ELEVATION WITH MEASUREMENTS. AND I DID EVERY, ALL THE WINDOWS ARE PER THE EXACT SAME SPECS THAT WERE IN THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. SO I WOULD REPLACE THE ORIGINAL HOUSE WINDOWS, WHICH WERE REPLACED IN THE EIGHTIES WITH ALUMINUM CLOUD WINDOWS. I WANT FURTHER RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH I WILL SUBMIT THE SPECS ON THOSE AND GET IT APPROVED ACCORDINGLY. UM, SO IF YOU GO TO PAGE 24, THIS IS KIND OF A VIEW IF LIKE, IT'S NOT AS A, LET'S SEE, 25 IS A VIEW AS A SIX FOOT ADULT STANDING ON THE STREET. SO THAT'S AS MUCH AS YOU'D SEE OF THE ROOF LINE AS THE SECOND EDITION. IF I WERE TO KEEP THAT, THAT, UM, ANGLE AND PITCH OF THE ROOF LINE FOR THE SECOND EDITION. SO, UM, MR. VASQUEZ ASKED ME TO DO THAT IN MY D R D R C MEETING. SO THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD KIND OF LOOK LIKE ON PAGE 25, AND THEN JUST MOVING AROUND AS YOU GO AROUND, UM, THROUGHOUT THE PROGRAM. SO ANYWAY, THAT'S MY PROPOSAL. DID WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS? WE DID NOT. WELL, WE DID, WE DID HAVE, UH, THE, WHAT? THE CONSERVATION [03:50:01] SOCIETY. I, I COMPLETELY APOLOGIZE. IT'S RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. I'M SORRY. . UM, NO, IT'S OKAY. YES, PATTY ANCE, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY. UM, THEY CONCUR WITH THE O H P STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS TO DENY CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT. THE MAJORITY OF THE PROPOSED WORK IS EITHER INCOMPATIBLE WITH OR ALTERS THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES OF THE ORIGINAL 1930S HOUSE. THAT'S IT. THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UM, I'D LIKE TO JUST, UH, SECOND WHAT THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY SAID. I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE DEVIATING FROM THE, UM, FROM THE, THE GUIDELINES HERE. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S SUCH A CHARMING HOUSE AND I'M, I'M GLAD YOU'RE WILLING TO INVEST, YOU KNOW, IN, IN, UM, YOU KNOW, ADAPTING IT TO YOUR, YOUR MODERN LIFE. BUT THERE'S SOME THINGS HERE WITH MASSING AND THE, THE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE, YOU KNOW, ROOF FORMS, UH, A LOT OF ALTERATIONS OF, OF, UH, SOME, UH, CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES. I LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE SOME, UM, IDEAS ABOUT REVERSING SOME, YOU KNOW, LESS, UH, DESIRABLE ALTERATIONS THAT WERE DONE OVER TIME. BUT I HAVE SOME REAL CONCERNS, AND I THINK STAFF'S VERY LONG LIST OF, OF, UH, EXCEPTIONS HERE AND STIPULATIONS. I THINK THIS NEEDS TO HAVE ANOTHER D R C, UM, AND, UH, TAKING TO HEART THE ITEMS THAT ARE THERE IN THE RECOMMENDATION AND REVISING THIS BEFORE YOU COME BACK TO D R C. SO I, I WOULD MOVE THAT THIS BE RETURNED TO D R C FOR ANOTHER ROUND AFTER, UH, MODIFICATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE THAT COMPLY WITH, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. I WOULD SECOND, UH, VELASQUEZ AND I MAKE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE DRC THAT WE HAD ALREADY. I, I'D LIKE TO TELL THE APPLICANT THAT YOU, THAT YOU HAVE MADE SIGNIFICANT, UH, IMPROVEMENTS AND IT IS MUCH MORE CONSISTENT WITH, UM, ITS, UM, ITS CHARACTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE. SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE WERE DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE ON THIS HOUSE IN THE PAST THAT ARE QUALIFYING AS QUALIFIABLE HISTORIC, UM, UH, SIGNIFICANT ALTERATIONS, BUT, BUT IT KIND OF, IT KIND OF CODIFIES, UH, WHAT ARE REALLY MISTAKES THAT THEN CREATE CHALLENGES TO YOU, RIGHT? PARTICULARLY WITH AN ELEVATION THAT I'M LOOKING AT. IT'S, UM, THE, UH, WEST PERSPECTIVE VIEW. OKAY. 'CAUSE WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT IS FROM THE SIDES. SO WHEN YOU GO TO, I GUESS IF THIS IS THE WEST, WHEN YOU GO TO THE EAST, THE EAST IS WHERE, UM, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE IT. I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE, UH, ON THAT, ON THAT EAST PERSPECTIVE. I'M TRYING TO SEE WHAT PAGE IT IS. UH, THE ONE THAT SAYS BACK PERSPECTIVE VIEW WITH GOOGLE TERRAIN, UM, BECAUSE THE, THE REAL ISSUE OR THE, THE, THE WAY THE ROOFS, UH, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SOLVE A CONVENTIONAL SOLUTION WITH THESE ROOFS THAT DON'T QUITE, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT, THEIR, THEIR INTENT WASN'T EVER TO PRESENT SOMEBODY WITH A, A, A OPPORTUNITY TO ADD ONTO IT IN THE FUTURE. SO YOU'RE STUCK WITH THAT. AND I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THIS AND HAD TO WORK THROUGH A LOT OF THIS IS VERY HARD. SO YOUR, YOUR EFFORT IS REALLY, UH, TO BE COMMENDED. UM, BUT IT STILL IS, YOU STILL NEED SOME MORE WORK. I'M HOPEFUL. AND, AND MR. CARPENTER'S, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S MOTION THAT, THAT, UH, THERE ULTIMATELY IS AN ARCHITECTURAL SOLUTION, AND THAT THERE ISN'T, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, IN, IN ANY WAY, AT LEAST FOR A SECOND. I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT HAVING AN ADDITION TO THIS HOUSE IS NOT POSSIBLE. UH, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IT'S WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS TO HAVE AN ADDITION TO THIS HOUSE. I, BUT, BUT MOVING TOWARD, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY THAT YOU GET YOUR D R C AND MOVING TOWARD, TOWARD THE, THE, UH, THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET ANOTHER COMMITTEE MEETING. I WOULD LOOK AT YOUR PLAN, AND I SEE THAT YOU'RE DESIGNING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE. I GET A REALLY STRONG FEELING THAT YOU'RE DESIGNING FROM INSIDE AND REALLY, YEAH, KIND OF FORGET ABOUT THE INSIDE, AND YOU HAVE TO DESIGN FROM THE OUTSIDE. SO IT IS A BACK AND FORTH PROCESS. I'M SURE YOU KNOW THAT, RIGHT? YOU BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH, BACK AND FORTH, BUT SOMETIMES YOU'RE JUST THROWN OUTSIDE AND THAT MIGHT IMPLICATE YOUR INSIDE. BUT THAT'S PART OF THE FUN. SO I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOU KIND OF EXPRESSED IN THE LAST MEETING THAT WE HAD, AND THEN IN THE D R C, THAT YOU'RE REALLY INTO THIS STUFF, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, LIKE, IT'S YOUR THING. AND, AND I, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. I, I THINK THAT, THAT GETTING TOWARD THAT D R C ALONG THE LINES OF, UH, THAT IT'S COMPLETELY WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS TO BUILD SOMETHING, UH, THAT, UH, THAT YOU ARE, YOU'RE ALMOST THERE. OKAY. AND CAN I ASK YOU SPECIFICALLY THE WHOLE PANEL, UM, IS IT THE SECOND STORY THAT IS [03:55:01] REALLY THE PROBLEM, UM, IF I JUST COMPLETELY REMOVED THAT, WOULD THIS NOT BE TOO MUCH OF A WELL, FOR AN ISSUE? FOR, FOR ME, THIS IS LIKE, I KNOW OTHER COMMISSIONERS ARE GONNA HAVE THEIR OWN, UH, UH, OPINIONS FOR ME, I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT I THINK THAT YOUR PROBLEM IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. IT'S THE HOUSE'S PROBLEM THAT THE HOUSE, THE EXISTING HOUSE PRESENTS, UH, UH, ISSUES THAT DID NOT, THAT DO NOT SPONSOR A GOOD SOLUTION. THEY DON'T, YOU ALMOST HAVE TO TEAR SOMETHING UP IN ORDER TO FIX IT TO. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW OTHER COMMISSIONERS SEE THAT BECAUSE, 'CAUSE MY FEELING IS THAT SOME OF THOSE DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE, THAT WERE BAD DECISIONS BY SOMEBODY ELSE, THAT SOMEHOW THEY BECOME HISTORIC, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THAT ELEVATION THAT'S BEEN PUT UP ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. I, I, I THINK THAT FROM THIS POINT, ESPECIALLY WITH WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, LIKE ALL OF THAT SEEMS TO BE VERY, VERY THOUGHTFUL TO THE INTENT, THE, HIS, THE, THE, THE SPIRIT OF THE, OF THE, OF THE HISTORIC ASPECTS OF THIS HOUSE. BUT THEN WHEN YOU GET TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING THAT'S NEW, YOU'RE HAVING TO ADAPT TO PREVIOUSLY, UH, DESIGN BAD SOLUTIONS. I THINK WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THOSE TWO THINGS, YOU GOTTA FREE YOURSELF UP. AND IF YOU'RE GONNA COME UP WITH A BETTER SOLUTION THAT DOESN'T QUITE MEET THE GUIDELINES, I WOULD SAY DON'T BE AFRAID TO BREAK THOSE GUIDELINES, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE SHOULD BE AFTER IS AN ARCHITECTURAL SOLUTION THAT COMPLIMENTS THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THIS HOUSE. BUT I, I THINK THERE, THERE'S ALSO THE ISSUE OF, OF, OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL. THIS IS A PREDOMINANTLY SINGLE STORY NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UM, SO WHEN YOU'RE PROPOSING A TWO STORY ADDITION, THAT IS NOTEWORTHY AND THAT'S SIGNIFICANT, AND IT HAS TO BE DONE VERY CAREFULLY. I'M, I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOUR LOT COVERAGE AND THE PERCENT, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, THE ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO SOME OF THE THINGS I WANNA SEE AT THAT D R C, UM, WOULD BE SOME OF THOSE, UH, HARD NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH, UH, UH, WITH THE GUIDELINES IN OUR EVALUATION OF THIS PROJECT. SO NOT GONNA BE LABOR OF THIS ANY FURTHER. 'CAUSE UH, IT'S GETTING PRETTY LATE. UM, CHAIRMAN, I HAVE A MOTION, I THINK I HAVE A SECOND. YES. FROM VASQUEZ. UH, CAN WE HAVE A VOTE ON THAT? UH, YES. UH, WE HAVE A MOTION. SECOND TO SEND THIS TO D R C. HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. AYE. AYE. SORRY, FETZER. AYE. LI LOPEZ? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. AND THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. AND, UM, I WANNA ADDRESS THE, THE APPLICANT HERE. UH, YES, I WAS IN THE D R C PREVIOUSLY. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO US AND, UH, ADDRESSING SOME OF OUR COMMENTS. BUT, UM, I THINK YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK, BUT NEED SOME MORE WORK, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR WILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH US. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, WE'RE READY FOR THE LAST ITEM, 2 53 [21. 20-7074 Address/Description: 253 LOTUS ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-417 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Adams Joseph/MATHEW ANGELINE & ADAMS J JOSEPH Request: Stucco over wood siding, window replacement City Council Dist.: 1] LOTUS LEE. CASE NUMBER 21 OR AGENDA ITEM 21, CASE NUMBER 20 24 17 AT 2 53 LOTUS, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE 10 WOOD WINDOWS WITH NEW VINYL WINDOWS AND SCREENS. TWO, REPLACE THREE NON-ORIGINAL DOORS WITH A VARIETY OF NEW DOORS AND THREE, INSTALL STUCCO OVER THE WOOD SIDING THROUGHOUT THE STRUCTURE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE, TWO, AND THREE. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING, ONE, IF THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS HAVE BEEN DISCARDED, THE NEW WINDOW SHOULD ADHERE TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WOOD WINDOW REPLACEMENT AND SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR VERIFICATION PRIOR TO PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION. WOOD WINDOWS SCREEN SHOULD BE RESTORED REGARDLESS OF APPROVAL TO RE PLACE THE WINDOWS. TWO, THE PROPOSED FRONT DOOR SHOULD MATCH THE PROPOSED SIDE DOOR, WHICH FEATURES DESIGN COMPATIBLE WITH THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE, PROPER ELEVATIONS AND MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO PURCHASE AND APPROVAL. AND THREE, THE PROPOSED STUCCO SHOULD BE REVERSED BY REMOVING THE STUCCO AND POTENTIALLY REPLACING ANY PERMANENTLY DAMAGED WOOD SIDING IN KIND PER FINDING. F THE SIDING APPEARS SALVAGEABLE, AND THE APPLICANT MAY INVESTIGATE FURTHER BY REMOVING PORTIONS OF THE STUCCO TO DOCUMENT MORE OF THE SIDING CONDITION UNDERNEATH. NO FURTHER SIDING REPLACEMENT OR ALTERATION MAY BE DONE UNTIL THE REMOVAL OF STUCCO IS DOCUMENTED AND SUBMITTED TO STAFF. UH, AS YOU CAN TELL BY THE RECOMMENDATION, THIS WORK HAS BEEN DONE PRIOR TO APPROVAL. I HAVE THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE TIMOTHY DEWINE [04:00:01] ON THE LINE. TIMOTHY, IF YOU'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND EXPLAIN, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S POSITION ON THIS CASE. SURE. UM, I'M TIMOTHY DEWINE. I WAS A REAL ESTATE AGENT IN SAN ANTONIO HERE FOR 20 YEARS, SPECIALIZING IN OLDER AND HISTORIC HOMES. UM, I HAVE SOLD, UH, MR. ADAMS AND HIS WIFE SEVERAL HOUSES OVER THE YEARS. UM, THEY GENERALLY STAY AWAY FROM OLDER HOMES. UM, AND THIS IS, THIS IS THE FIRST, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST OLDER HOME THAT THEY BOUGHT. UM, I RETIRED A COUPLE YEARS AGO TO STOP SELLING REAL ESTATE, TO TAKE CARE OF MY AGING MOTHER. AND TRUST ME, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A FULL-TIME JOB NOW. SO THEY DID THIS PURCHASE WITHOUT ME. UM, THINGS WOULD'VE, MY RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD'VE BEEN A LOT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT HE DID. BUT AT THE TIME OF THE PURCHASE, UH, I DON'T BELIEVE HE HAD ANY IDEA THAT THIS HOME WAS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THAT'S NOT WHY HE BOUGHT IT. UM, IF I COULD JUST ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS BEFORE I PROCEED THIS, UM, THE THREE PAGES, THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION DATED DECEMBER 2ND, WHO PREPARED ALL, WHO PREPARED THIS? I SEE THAT, UM, THE CASE MANAGER WAS MR. FAN, BUT I DON'T KNOW, DID HE WRITE ALL THIS? YES, THAT WAS, UH, WRITTEN BY A STAFF. BY WHO? BY STAFF AS IN ME, AND, UH, THE H D R C STAFF TEAM. SO WHO'S, WHO'S SPEAKING RIGHT NOW? THIS IS HUI, THE CASE MANAGER. OH, OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND, UM, MY NEXT QUESTION IS, I'VE, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP TRACK OF WHO'S TALKING AND WHO'S IN ATTENDANCE AND ALL THAT, AND, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE WE CYCLED THROUGH ABOUT 16 OR 18 DIFFERENT NAMES. SO I DON'T KNOW IF, IF SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE WERE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE, UH, CALLING IN FOR THEIR, THEIR TIME SLOT, OR ARE THESE ALL OF, ALL THESE PEOPLE ON THE SCREEN, DO THEY WORK AT THE HISTORIC, UM, COMMISSION OR, MY QUESTION IS THIS, I, I, I SEE THE PACKET, UM, THAT YOU HAVE UP ON THE SCREEN. I KNOW THAT IT'S ABOUT 58 PAGES LONG. I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A FEELING FOR WHO IS ON THE COMMISSIONER IN ATTENDANCE RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE THEY ACTUALLY LOOKED THROUGH ALL OF THESE PICTURES AND READ EVERYTHING, OR THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. I DID LOOK THROUGH EVERYTHING AND I'M ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS. THERE'S 11 COMMISSIONERS. WE'RE NOT ALL PRESENT TODAY, OF COURSE. UM, I FEEL LIKE, UM, AND THIS IS ALSO LATE, I FEEL LIKE YOU WOULD GET MOST BENEFIT FOR US TO MOVE THIS CASE TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE WITH THE OWNERS, UM, TO REALLY GET AN IDEA OF WHAT IS IT THAT STAFF IS TELLING YOU. I UNDERSTAND THAT, I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF WORK DONE THAT'S OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE USUALLY WOULD SEE DONE TO OUR HISTORIC HOME, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT THE REASON I ASK THE QUESTION IS BECAUSE, UM, I'M TRYING TO ASCERTAIN, YOU KNOW, IF IF YOU WERE TO READ THIS REPORT FOR THE FIRST TIME, YOU WOULD REALLY GET THE IMPRESSION. UH, I MEAN, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS FROM THE BEGINNING WITH MR. P, YOU PROBABLY KNOW BETTER. BUT TO READ THIS, I WAS SHOCKED. YOU KNOW, I JUST READ IT FOR THE FIRST TIME. UH, YOU KNOW, IT JUST CAME OUT THE SECOND. UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE, UM, I MEAN THIS, THIS LEADS ME TO, WOULD LEAD A READER TO BELIEVE THAT MR. ADAMS BOUGHT THIS HOUSE COMPLETELY, YOU KNOW, THUMBED HIS NOSE, THAT THE RULES AND DID HIS OWN THING. AND I, I WANT Y'ALL TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S SIMPLY NOT THE CASE. HE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS A HISTORIC PROPERTY. AND FRANKLY, IF I'D HAVE BEEN HIS AGENT, I WOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR B AD'S DATA. UM, THEY SHOWED IN DURANGO AND ROOSEVELT. UM, PERSONALLY, IF I WAS SELLING THIS TO MR. ADAMS, I WOULD'VE PROBABLY DONE A FEW SEARCHES THROUGH THE COUNTY RECORDS BECAUSE IT'S ABUT A HISTORIC DISTRICT. BUT I'LL TELL THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS, SIR, THIS IS, UH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ. I, I THINK THAT, THAT WE CAN, WE CAN, UM, UH, TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT, THAT THIS WAS NOT ANYTHING DONE TO GET AWAY FROM THE RULES. AND, UM, I THINK THAT WE CAN ASK OUR, OUR STAFF, UH, LIAISON HERE THAT COREY, UH, TO PLEASE TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THIS GENTLEMAN'S COMMENTS. AND THAT WE, WE, WE REALLY DO HAVE TO BE MINDFUL [04:05:01] OF THE LANGUAGE THAT WE USE WHEN WE PUT OUT, UH, DOCUMENTS THAT ARE PUBLIC RECORD, THAT JUST AS GENERIC AS THE RECOMMENDATIONS TYPICALLY ARE. MAYBE THERE'S LANGUAGE IN HERE THAT'S NOT AS GENERIC AS IT SHOULD BE. UH, AND, AND IF YOU NEED AN APOLOGY, SIR, OR, OR IF YOU FEEL THAT THERE'S SOME WAY YOU'VE BEEN SLIGHTED, WE GET THE CASES. WE DON'T HAVE A, YOU KNOW, PRECONCEIVED, UH, YOU KNOW, ID SOMEONE'S GUILT. TRUST ME, YOU APPRECIATE THAT IN YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS. OKAY? AND I APPRECIATE YOU SAYING THAT. AND I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW, I DON'T PERSONALLY HAVE THAT, UH, WOULDN'T HAVE THAT IMPRESSION. I'VE TAKEN SEVERAL OF THE COURSES THAT, UH, YOU'VE BROUGHT IN PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE OVER THE YEARS, UH, FROM OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO TO TEACH REALTORS OR, OR ANYBODY INTERESTED IN TAKING THEM. I'VE TAKEN SEVERAL CLASSES AT THE ONE STOP SHOP. UM, UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T RECOGNIZE ANYBODY HERE FROM BACK WHEN I TOOK THOSE CLASSES. SO, UM, BUT I JUST WANT, AGAIN, I WANTED TO BE SURE THAT WHOEVER RECEIVES THIS PACKET, IF IT, IF IT'S ANYBODY, UM, IN THIS GROUP TONIGHT, THERE'S SEVERAL PICTURES. I MEAN, I, I DON'T KNOW WHY THESE PICTURES WERE ADDED, BUT PROBABLY 20 PAGES OF PHOTOS OF THE HOME FROM BEFORE MR. ADAMS OBTAINED IT. BECAUSE TO LOOK AT THIS, IT'S, IT'S QUITE SHOCKING. IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEBODY WENT IN THERE AND RIPPED OFF THE SHEET ROCK AND EVERYTHING. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM, YOU'LL SEE THESE ARE FROM THE SAN ANTONIO OF ORDER REALTORS, UH, PHOTOS TAKEN IN 2019. AND THIS IS THE WAY IT LOOKED WHEN MR. ADAMS BOUGHT IT. THIS IS MR. FISH. THE, THESE IMAGES, WHENEVER WE HAVE A, A COMPLIANCE CASE, MEANING THE WORK WAS DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT, IF, IF THE APPLICANT WOULD'VE APPLIED FOR A PERMIT, WE WOULD'VE, WE WOULD'VE BEEN INVOLVED BEFORE THIS HAPPENED. SO WHENEVER WE HAVE A SITE VISIT OR A COMPLIANCE CASE, THE STAFF DOES RESEARCH TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT OCCURRED. THAT'S, THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING THESE EXTRA IMAGES. IT'S, IT'S, UH, AN ORDINARY PIECE OF, UH, OF THE DOCUMENT THAT YOU SEE. SO THAT'S WHY THERE'S SOME REAL ESTATE PHOTOS, BECAUSE THAT'S LAST PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE AND THERE'S A LOT OF PHOTOS FROM THE SITE VISIT AS WELL. OKAY. I APPRECIATE THAT MR. FISH. HOWEVER, UH, YOU KNOW, I SPOTTED RIGHT AWAY THAT THEY WERE FROM SABOR, UM, FROM THE M L S. AND, UH, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S PUBLIC. AND I THINK IF, IF WE'RE GOING TO INCLUDE PICTURES FROM BEFORE THE TIME THAT THE, UH, PERSON BEFORE YOU NOW, UH, PURCHASE THE PROPERTY, THAT THEY SHOULD BE LABELED AS SUCH, SO THAT NON INDUSTRY PEOPLE, NON-REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY PEOPLE REALIZE THAT. UM, SORRY, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE NEED TO MOVE ON WITH THE CASE ITSELF. YES. UM, WE APPRECI WE APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, UH, MR. DEWINE. OKAY. WELL, LET ME, LET ME ADDRESS ONE OTHER THING BEFORE WE VOTE ON ANYTHING. 'CAUSE I HAVE A QUESTION. I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT I HAD A HARD TIME, UM, FINDING THAT THIS WAS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE GOVERNING DOCUMENT THAT MAKES THIS HOUSE PART OF THE LA BACA NEIGHBORHOOD? IS IT THE REZONING ORDINANCE? REZONING ORDINANCE FROM 2004 OR 2008? 2004, I THINK. YEAH, IT WAS PROBABLY, UM, ONE OF THE LAVACCA EXPANSIONS. AND WE, IF YOU CAN GO TO THE, THE SITE MAP, WHAT IS UNUSUAL ABOUT THIS IS THE REST OF LOTUS THAT THIS STREET OR THIS HOUSE IS LOCATED ON, IS NOT WITHIN THE DISTRICT. UM, THE DISTRICT BOUNDARY HERE FOLLOWS THE, THE PROPERTIES THAT ARE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF CAROLINA STREET. AND SO IN THIS INSTANCE, IT FOLLOWS THE REAR END OF ALL OF THOSE HOUSES FACING CAR CAROLINA, BUT THEN ALSO INCLUDES THIS ONE HOUSE FACING THE END OF LOTUS INCLUDES HOUSES, EXCUSE ME, IT INCLUDES A, THERE'S A SIMILAR SITUATION ON ONE BLOCK NORTH AS WELL, RIGHT? ON OVERLAPPING. YEAH. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT ALL OF THAT, UH, THE HOME, THE LOT THAT THAT HOME SITS ON IS ALL WITHIN, UM, YOU KNOW, THE LOTS ALONG THAT LINE. WHEREAS WITH OUR PROPERTY, IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EXACTLY CUT IN HALF, BUT THIS HOUSE WAS ALREADY MEM A MEMBER OF THE DUP AND TAP SUBDIVISION THAT WAS ESTABLISHED IN LIKE 2006, OR EXCUSE ME, 1906. SO BY INCLUDING IT, YOU'RE ACTUALLY RIPPING TWO THIRDS OF THE HOUSE OUT OF THAT SUBDIVISION AND INCLUDING IT IN THE, UM, LE BACA NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, AND SO THAT'S WHY I PULLED UP THE ZONING ORDINANCE BECAUSE THERE IS A SECTION, UH, DO WE AGREE THAT THE ZONING ACCORDING TO THE, UM, ONE STOP [04:10:01] MAP IS CURRENTLY R SIX? WELL, WITH AN EIGHT, LET ME, UH, SIR, LET ME ASK STEP A QUESTION CO. CORY, ISN'T THERE A, I FORGET WHAT A R STANDS FOR. UM, ISN'T THERE A, UM, A PROCESS BY WHICH THIS GENTLEMAN CAN, UH, REQUEST THAT THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT MAKE A, MAKE A, UH, A, A A DECISION? BECAUSE IT, IT, HE, HE'S PRESENTING TO US THAT HE'S, UM, A QUALIFIED REALTOR AND THAT, AND THAT THE RECORD DOES NOT SHOW IT AS AN, AS AN H AND YET ON THIS OTHER END, AND THEN THERE'S COMPELLING EVIDENCE, RIGHT? THAT IT, IT CAN GO TWO WAYS HERE DEPENDING ON WHO'S IN CHARGE, RIGHT? UM, BECAUSE I'M, MY FEELING IS WHAT HE'S PRESENTING TO US IS THAT THERE'S QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THIS PROPERTY IS, YEAH, I MEAN, ANYONE CAN REQUEST A ZONING VERIFICATION. THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. UM, AND THAT WOULD GIVE THEM THE, THE STATUS OF DESIGNATION. UM, I, YOU KNOW, IF HE WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, HE WOULD GET THE SAME RESULT THAT YOU SEE ON THIS MAP HERE. UM, SO JUST PUTTING IN THE ADDRESS, YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S IN THE LAKA OVERLAY. I UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN THEY DREW THE MAP, THEY DID THAT. BUT I'M ALSO LOOKING AT AN ORDINANCE WHERE THE PROPERTIES THAT WERE TO BE INCLUDED IN LAVACCA WERE LISTED BY A LEGAL DESCRIPTION. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECTION, IT'S ORDINANCE 9 9 3 3 8. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND PAGE, THEY LIST THE PROPERTIES THAT HAD A ZONING OF R SIX AND THE ZONING IS TO CHANGE THE PROPERTIES FROM R SIX TO AN H R SIX, HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY. THERE ARE SEVERAL PROPERTIES LISTED, BUT NONE OF THEM IN, UH, NONE OF THEM WOULD INCLUDE THIS PROPERTY . LET ME, LET ME JUST SAY LIKE, IF THERE'S A QUESTION AS TO THE DESIGNATION, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING WE LOOK AT AS THE NORMAL DESIGN REVIEW WORKFLOW, BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT. WE JUST CANNOT DO IT TONIGHT. WE WEREN'T EXPECTING THIS, THIS ARTICLE CHAIRMAN TO MAKE A MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS WHILE THERE'S CLARIFICATION WORK DONE, BECAUSE THE WORST THING TO DO, IT'S FOR US TO LIKE, UH, DELIBERATE ON A, ON AN ITEM THAT, UH, THAT A, THAT A, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS A REASONABLE, UH, ARGUMENT THAT, UM, THAT EXCLUDES IT FROM THIS PRESENT. WE THAN HAP WE'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO GO CHECK THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE AND THE LEGAL DESCRIPTIONS AND VERIFY IF THIS PROPERTY WAS INCLUDED. THAT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING WE WERE EXPECTING. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'RE HEARING THIS, SO WE'RE, WE'RE HAPPY TO LOOK AT THAT. IF I GET, IT'S FUNNY YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY PROVIDED MOST OF THIS DOCUMENTATION TO KATIE, UH, AT LEAST A MONTH AGO, MAYBE LONGER. AND THERE'S ONE LAST PIECE I WOULD MENTION IN THAT SAME, UM, ORDINANCE IS A COPY OF A AFFIDAVIT TO PUBLISHER WITH A NEWSPAPER CLIPPING OF THE PUBLICATION WHERE IT'S SPEC SPECIFICALLY STATED THAT IT WOULD ONLY BE THE CAROLINA FACING PROPERTIES. UM, AND THIS IS ONE OF TWO THAT DO NOT FACE CAROLINA. SO I GUESS THE REASON I'M BRINGING THIS UP IS BECAUSE IF IT'S, IT DOESN'T REALLY APPEAR, AND I GUESS, YOU KNOW, MR. ADAMS IS GONNA ASK ME, WELL, WHAT SHOULD I DO? AND, YOU KNOW, THE COST OF 13 WINDOWS AND RIPPING OUT SIDING AND REPLACING SIDING AND REPAIRING SIDING AND PAINTING IT, I, FRANKLY, I WOULD TELL HIM TO GO GET A LAWYER AND GET THE HECK OUT OF THIS, UH, HISTORIC SIR. AND SIR, BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE GO THERE, I THINK, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO MAKE A MOTION YES. TO ALLOW Y'ALL ALL THE TIME TO GO AND, UH, AND DO WHAT YOU FEEL THAT YOU NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE NOT BEING INCLUDED IN SOMETHING THAT, IN EFFECT, THAT YOU, YOU MAYBE ARE NOT INCLUDED IN. AND IT'S WORTH THAT BECAUSE, BECAUSE JUST THE IDEA THAT ALL THIS WORK WAS DONE AND THAT, AND THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, AND THERE IS SOME RIDICULOUSNESS TO THE WHOLE THING AS IT, AS, AS IT IS IN TERMS OF, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE SHOULD BE A CONFLICT, RIGHT? BETWEEN IT SHOULD BE SURE. WE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY SURE. YOU PRESENTED WELL ENOUGH INFORMATION. SO I'D LIKE TO, TO MAKE A MOTION, UM, TO CONTINUE. BUT CORY, IS THERE A MOTION TO REMOVE THIS FROM OUR DOCKET? I MEAN, FROM, I MEAN, IS THERE THAT CAPABILITY I CONTINUE? I CAN, IF IF WE DETERMINE THAT A CERTIFICATE IS NOT NEEDED, THEN IT WOULDN'T RETURN HERE, THERE'S, IT WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED TO RETURN. OKAY. WELL THEN I'D MAKE A MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS, UH, ITEM, UH, UH, GIVING THE, THE, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CALL 'EM AN APPLICANT OR I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE CALLED HERE IN THIS CASE. THE OPPORTUNITY, THE AMPLE TIME [04:15:01] TO INVESTIGATE THIS FURTHER AND HAVE A CONCLUSIVE ANSWER. COMMISSIONER MAY, MAY, I MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THAT TO SAY WE CONTINUE THIS CASE UNTIL, UH, O H P STAFF CAN CONFIRM WHETHER THIS, THIS, UH, PROPERTY FALLS WITHIN OUR, OUR PURVIEW. YOU'RE MUTED, GABE. YOU'RE MUTED. THAT'S, YOU'RE MUTED THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COMMENT. BUT, BUT I THINK THAT, THAT THE OPPORTUNITY IS THE OWNER'S OPPORTUNITY, NOT, NOT STAFF'S OPPORTUNITY, BECAUSE THE TIME IS GONNA BE DIFFERENT AND THE OWNER NEEDS TIME TO DO THIS BECAUSE IT'S GONNA AFFECT THE OWNER IN THE GREATEST WAY. STAFF IS JUST ANOTHER CASE. I DON'T MEAN THAT IN A NEGATIVE WAY, IT'S JUST ANOTHER CASE. YEAH. BUT MAY, MAY I SUGGEST THAT. EXCUSE ME. CAN WE SPEAK, EXCUSE ME? CAN WE SPEAK, UH, PLEASE PERMIT THE COMMISSIONERS TO SPEAK. PLEASE MUTE EVERYBODY. I DON'T LET THE PROBLEM HOW YOU JUST IDENTIFY YOURSELF. OKAY. THIS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THANK YOU. UM, I, I DO THINK THOUGH THE ONUS IS ON STAFF TO, TO CONFIRM THIS AND, UM, YOU KNOW, TO THAT AS PART OF THE DUE DILIGENCE FOR CASES BEING BROUGHT BEFORE US, I THINK THAT IS, UH, SOMETHING THAT THEY DO THAT, THAT WE ARE CONFIDENT THAT THIS INFORMATION IS BEING PRESENTED TO US IS TRUE AND ACCURATE. AND SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S INDEPENDENT OF, OF WHAT THE, UH, OWNER'S, UH, COURSE OF ACTION IS ON THIS. I, I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT. OKAY. I ACCEPT THAT. UM, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU MR. GOVERNOR. UH, COMMISSIONER, GOVERNOR, MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. CAN I REQUEST THAT THE RECOMMENDATION OF IT IS FOR, UH, CONTINUING BE PROVIDED WITH BE, UM, INCLUDE A DATE CERTAIN EITHER NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING OR WITHIN THE NEXT TWO SCHEDULED MEETINGS NEXT MONTH? UH, UM, LEGAL COUNSEL, ROSANO, I APPRECIATE THAT. UH, I WOULD UH, ASK FOR 30 DAYS AND THEN FAIR. FAIR ENOUGH. OKAY. WITHIN 30 DAYS THEY ALL GET TOGETHER AND FIGURE IT OUT. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE FOR 30 DAYS. FOR 30 DAYS. UH, DO WE HAVE A SECOND, SECOND, SECOND MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH? AYE. AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. UH, CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP? AYE. BETTS, SIR? AYE, NOTHING. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. WE HAVE, UM, [Approval of HDRC Meeting Minutes for November 18, 2020.] MEETING MINUTES FROM NOVEMBER 18TH, 2020 TO APPROVE. MOTION TO APPROVE MEETING MINUTES FROM FROM NOVEMBER 18TH. MOTION HERNANDEZ I SECOND. MOTION TO SECOND FOR APPROVAL. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION TO ADJOURN MOTION ADJOURN. CHAIRMAN, YOUR VOLUME WAS VERY LOW TODAY, SO MAYBE NEXT TIME WE CAN FIND A WAY TO GET YOU A LITTLE BIT LOUDER. YEAH, MY CONNECTION WAS BAD TODAY. SORRY. WE NEED A MOTION FOR THE ADJOURNMENT OR A ACTION? MOTION TO ADJOURN TODAY'S MEETING. SECOND. THE LAST MOTION. A SECOND TO ADJOURN. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. THANK YOU ALL. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.