* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. OKAY, I'D [00:00:01] LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, JULY 21ST, 2021. HAVE [Roll Call ] A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ QUEZ. HERE. HERE. CARPENTER. CARPENTER. CARPENTER. CARPENTER. HERE, ZER. HERE. LA HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM. AND NOW, UM, WE'LL BE PROVIDING A BRIEF STATEMENT OVER TRANSITION SERVICES. FOR THIS MEETING. [Chairman’s Statement ] WE'LL NOW HAVE THE CHAIRMAN STATEMENT, HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE CHAIR OF SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. IN, IN CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODES IN DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARD BY CITY COUNCIL IN FEEL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL AND YOU FILED ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH THIS MEETING THROUGH LIVESTREAM. THEY CAN ALSO LISTEN TO THE MEETING THROUGH AUDIO ONLY BY CALLING 2 1 0 2 0 6 5 4 8 3 IN ENGLISH OR SPANISH. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN ENGLISH IN SPANISH. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT REQUIRE TRANSLATION SERVICES, THE INTERPRETER WILL TRANSLATE OVER THE PHONE AS NECESSARY. IN AN EFFORT TO HEAR ALL CASES ON THE AGENDA, APPLICANTS WILL NEED TO SUMMARIZE THEIR STATEMENTS AND BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE SPEAKING IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION EACH HAVE A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES FOR THEIR COMMENTS AND EACH COMMISSIONER WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE MINUTES FOR QUESTION AND COMMENTS REGARDING EACH APPLICATION. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR AWARD CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY T IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMIT. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME I'LL ASK O H P STAFF TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR TODAY'S MEETING. [CONSENT AGENDA ] THANK YOU, JEFF. UH, SO, UH, COMMISSIONERS, IF YOU COULD DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. WE HAVE THE CONSENT, CONSENT AGENDA UP HERE. NOW, UM, ITEM NUMBER 6 2 16 NORTH MESQUITE HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT. UH, WE DID RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, FOR THAT REQUEST. UH, HOWEVER WE WON'T READ THOSE SINCE THAT ITEM HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT. UM, AS I NOTED BEFORE, WE HAVE 15 ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. UH, WE DO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT FOR A HANDFUL OF THOSE, AND SO I WILL NOW, UH, READ PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THOSE. UH, STARTING WITH ITEM NUMBER 2 1 15 BOSTON. THESE ARE COMMENTS FROM DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. WE ARE REQUESTING THAT THIS CASE BE PULLED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA SO THAT THE FRONT SETBACKS CAN BE CONFIRMED. FIRST STAFF REVIEW. THERE ARE THREE OPTIONS AND NONE ARE CLEAR. ONE, CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ITEM ONE. THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION WILL FEATURE A SETBACK GREATER THAN THAT OF THE NEIGHBORING HISTORIC STRUCTURE TO THE EAST. TWO. FINDINGS E THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION WILL FEATURE A SETBACK THAT IS EQUAL TO THE EXISTING ONE STORY STRUCTURES FOUND ON THE BLOCK. THREE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE PROPOSED SETBACK DOES NOT EXCEED THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BLOCK. WE CONTINUE TO HAVE ISSUES WITH THE INCORRECT SETBACKS FOR CONSTRUCTION AND IT'S THAT WITH THE DIRECT AS PROVIDED ABOVE, I THINK WE CAN AGREE THAT WE ALL WANT CONSISTENCY IN HOW SETBACKS TO DETERMINED. THANK YOU. THE NEXT COMMENT THAT WE HAVE IS FOR ITEM NUMBER 8 3 33 MARTIN LUTHER KING. THIS IS FROM A GROUP OF HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO ALLOW DEMOLITION THE NON-CONTRIBUTING GARAGE ON 3 33 MARTIN LUTHER KING [00:05:01] DRIVE. HOWEVER, RATHER THAN DEMOLITION, WE ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT TO OFFER COMPLETE STRUC THE COMPLETE STRUCTURE TO NEIGHBORS FOR REUSE RELOCATION OR FOR ITS COMPONENTS. THIS IN THREE OLD WOOD AND MILLWORK IS WORTH SAVING. THE NEXT IS ITEM NUMBER 11 6 0 1 LAROSA IN 3 32 WEST COMMERCE. THIS IS FROM KATHY RHODES WITH THE SAN ANTONIO CONSERVATION SOCIETY. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO SUPPORTS PROPOSED PLANS FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THIS LOT. WE COMMEND THE TEAM FOR WORKING WITH VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS TO ADDRESS PRESERVATION CONCERNS. WE ARE PLEASED WITH THE DESIGN WHICH BOTH HIGHLIGHTS AND RESPECTS THE INTEGRITY OF THE EXTENT HISTORIC BUILDINGS ON SITE AND WE'LL REINVIGORATE THE BLOCK. THE NEXT COMMENT IS FOR ITEM 13 9 20 BURLESON. THIS COMMENT IS FROM DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. WE SUPPORT STAFF'S INTENTION. HOWEVER, THE APPLICATION APPEARS INCOMPLETE SINCE THE DRAWINGS PROVIDED. DO NOT INDICATE MATERIALS, WINDOW AND DOOR PROPORTIONS OR COMPATIBLE WINDOW SPACING. BACKYARD LANDSCAPE WORK DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN REVIEWED AND FEATURES ALL IMPERVIOUS COVER SUCH AS DECKING, GRAVEL, AND ARTIFICIAL TURF. THE LAST COMMENT THAT WE'VE RECEIVED ARE THE CONSENT AGENDA, ITEM NUMBER 15, 10 38 THROUGH 10 50. DAWSON. THIS COMMENT IS FROM DICK WOODY HILL, HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THE COMMENT READS, WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND COMMEND THE APPLICANT FOR REINFORCING THE VARIETY OF LOTS AND HOUSING TYPES FOUND IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THESE CONCLUDE OUR COMMENTS FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. COMMISSIONERS, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO REMOVE ANY ITEMS FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA, PLEASE LET THAT BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. I AM, I JUST, I DON'T WANNA HAVE TO PULLED, I JUST WANTED TO, UH, LET Y'ALL KNOW ABOUT ITEM NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS 1135. CHADWELL CHADWELL PARK IS ONE OF THE NEWEST PARK IN DISTRICT SEVEN THAT SERVES THE DONALD HARRIS NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UM, IN THIS PARK NOW THE NEIGHBORHOOD GREEN SPACE BENCH. BUT NONE OF THESE IMPROVEMENTS WOULD'VE BEEN WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTION AND THE ACCURACY OF ALL THE NEIGHBORS AND THE LEADERSHIP OF ONE PARTICULAR NEIGHBOR, MR. BUR GUERRERO. MR. GUERRERO HAS MAINTAINED THIS UNIMPROVED EASEMENT AND DONATED SEVERAL PIECES OF PLAY EQUIPMENT FOR THE CHILDREN SO THEY CAN HAVE A SAFE PLACE TO PLAY. AND I REALLY JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT, UH, MR. GUERRA'S YEARS OF SERVICE. HE WAS A PRESIDENT OF THE DONALD'S AND HARRIS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, BUT ALSO JUST A DEDICATED MEMBER OF OUR COMMUNITY. SO THIS IS A PLAQUE COMMEMORATING AND JUSTICE AS A TOKEN OF APPRECIATION OF, OF ALL HIS HARD WORK IN OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU. DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY MR. CHAIR? COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ I'D TO PULL, UM, NUMBER 11. OKAY, CHAIRMAN, THIS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I WOULD LIKE TO PULL ITEMS TWO AND 13. CARPENTER MR. CHAIR, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. COMMISSIONER GIBB. ITEM EIGHT. ITEM EIGHT. RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? IF NOT, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS 3 3 5 7 9 10, 12, 14 AND 15. MR. CHAIR. COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ? I'LL SECOND. UH, MR. CARPENTER'S MOTION. HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. HER? AYE. VELASQUEZ QUEZ. C. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. CARPENTER. C. AYE. BETTER? C. AYE. AND THE PHONE? AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. [2. 21-4824 Address/Description: 115 BOSTON HDRC Case No.: 2021-330 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Robert Lee/ LindLee LLC Request: Construction of a 1-story, single family residential structure City Council Dist.: 2 ] ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONERS FIRST WILL BE ITEM NUMBER TWO. WE'RE WORKING ON GETTING THE APPLICANT ON FOR THAT. IF WE HAVE ANOTHER APPLICANT THAT WE'RE ABLE TO GET PRIOR TO NUMBER TWO, WE WILL, UH, PROVIDER, WE WILL HAVE COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS, UH, FOR THAT ITEM FIRST, [00:10:08] MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. I THINK SOME OF THE COMMENTS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD WERE IN REGARDS TO STAFF STIPULATIONS. MAYBE STAFF CAN UH, TALK ABOUT THOSE IN THE MEANTIME. YES, I WILL. UH, SO THE COMMENT WAS IN REGARDS TO THE SETBACK. UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS FOR A SETBACK THAT DOES NOT EXCEED THOSE THAT ARE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BLOCK. UH, PER THE SETBACK DIAGRAM, THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THAT THEY DO INTEND TO HAVE A SETBACK THAT IS GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BLOCK. UM, NOT FOR SURE IF WE HAVE THE APPLICANT ON NOW, BUT IF WE DO THE APPLICANT. ANY QUESTIONS SPECIFICALLY IN REGARDS TO THAT? BOSTON IS ON NOW. SO, UH, I BELIEVE STEPHANIE IS ON WITH THE APPLICANT, MR. ROBERT LEE. UM, STEPHANIE, ARE YOU THERE WITH THE APPLICANT? YES. ROBERT, CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? YES. MY NAME IS ROBERT LEE WITH LINLEY DESIGN BUILD. RIGHT. I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER CARPENTER HAD A QUESTION. YES. IT RELAYED SPECIFICALLY TO THE, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE SETBACKS. I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM WITH THE APPLICANT, UH, THAT IT IS THEIR INTENT TO HAVE THE SETBACK EQUAL ARE GREATER THAN THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURES ON THE NORTH SIDE OF BOSTON STREET. YES, WE CURRENTLY ARE OVER 24 INCHES, UH, I THINK LIKE 26 INCHES FROM THE FACE OF THE PORCH FROM THE SETBACK. SO THAT WOULD BE, UH, 12 FEET PLUS FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. SO WE, WE DO SIT BACK AND WE, WE DO, UH, GIVE PRECEDENT TO ALL OF THE, UM, THIS, THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES ON THE, THE STREETS. MR. CHAIRMAN, WITH THAT CONFIRMED, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND DISCUSSION. EZ AYE. I C GIBBS GIBBS C QUEZ? AYE. NAN AYE. CARPENTER AYE. AYE. BETTER? AYE. LAO. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. [8. 21-4840 Address/Description: 333 MARTIN LUTHER KING DR HDRC Case No.: 2021-329 Landmark Name: Individual Landmark Applicant: Miranda Garrison/City of San Antonio Request: New construction of a 1-story community center City Council Dist.: 2 ] THE NEXT ITEM UP THAT WAS REMOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA IS ITEM NUMBER 8 3 33. MARTIN LUTHER LUTHER THREE KING DRIVE. UM, I BELIEVE RACHEL IS HERE NOW WITH MIRANDA GARRISON, WHO'S FROM PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT WITH THE CITY. UH, RACHEL, ARE YOU THERE? YES, I AM HERE WITH MIRANDA. HI. HI MIRANDA. UH, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. UM, I JUST, UM, HAD A COUPLE QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR, UM, ABOUT THE CASE. UM, CAN YOU JUST SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CASE AND WHAT WE'RE YOU'RE DOING HERE? YES. UH, WE'RE PUTTING A NEW, UM, COMMUNITY CENTER, UM, THAT IS, UM, ON THE CHURCH GROUND. THEY'RE USING THE PARKING LOT TO PUT THE NEW STRUCTURE. AND CURRENTLY THERE IS A, UH, EARLY LIKE 1920S, 1930S GARAGE THAT WAS, UM, LEFT OVER FROM A HOUSE THAT USED TO BE THERE. AND, UM, IT WAS CONSIDERED, UM, NON-CONTRIBUTING TO THE HISTORIC PROPERTY. AND SO, UM, THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO REMOVE THAT IN ORDER TO PUT THE NEW COMMUNITY CENTER IN THAT SPOT. UM, WE ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO SALVAGE THE MATERIAL IF WE NEED TO AND OFFER THAT UP TO THE COMMUNITY IF, UM, IF THAT'S THE CASE OR EVEN TAKE THEM TO, UH, A SALVAGE AREA IF WE NEED TO, FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO USE, TO USE THE, UH, MATERIALS IN THAT GARAGE. SO THAT WAS, UM, YOU GOT TO THE POINT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. SO, UM, YOU'RE, YOU'LL BE WILLING TO ESTABLISH THAT MATERIAL AND THAT YOU USE AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT. UM, THAT WOULD SATISFIED WITH IT. NEIGHBORS ARE LOOKING TO DO ANY THAT SATISFIES YOU AS WELL. UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, MR. CHAIR. THAT CONCLUDES MYSELF OF MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. UH, VERY QUICKLY I, I'D LIKE TO COMMEND THE ARTIST, UH, ALDRICK GAO ON, UH, HIS ARTWORK AS PRESENTED IN IN THE PACKAGE. UH, SOME YEARS BACK I ORGANIZED THE CHEN PROJECT AND KENDRICK WAS PARTICIPANT IN THAT. AND IT'S WONDERFUL TO SEE, UH, UH, THE LEVEL OF CREATIVITY, UH, SUCH A SPECIAL TALENT IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. AND IT'S FANTASTIC TO SEE HIS WORK CELEBRATED AS HE ALSO CELEBRATES THE [00:15:01] LEGACY OF BARBECUE KING. DO I HAVE A MOTION? MR. CHAIRMAN? UH, MS. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. COMMISSIONER GIBB, I SECOND. DO YOU HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? ANY DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FERNANDEZ GIBBS. AYE. GIBBS VELASQUEZ. QUEZ AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. C AYE THAT SIR? AYE FU AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. UH, [11. 21-4880 Address/Description: 601 DOLOROSA/332 W COMMERCE, Continental Hotel, Arana Building, de la Garza House HDRC Case No.: 2021-308 Landmark Name: Individual Landmark Historic District Name: Main/Military Plaza RIO District: RIO-7 Applicant: Irby Hightower/Alamo Architects Request: Rehabilitation of the Continental Hotel, Arana Building, and de la Garza House and construction of a multi-story, residential tower City Council Dist.: 1 ] NEXT UP IS ITEM NUMBER 11. THIS IS 6 0 1 LAROSA AND 3 32 WEST COMMERCE. UH, KATIE FROM OUR OFFICE IS ON THE LINE NOW WITH REEVES CRAIG FROM WESTERN URBAN, UH, KATIE, ARE YOU THERE WITH REEVES? REEVES URBAN? KATIE, ARE YOU THERE? MAY NEED TO, UH, STAR SIX TO UNMUTE. OKAY. THERE WE GO. I'M SORRY. I'M HERE WITH REED. NO WORRIES. THANK YOU. UM, REED, WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE COMMISSION? THIS IS REED CRAIG WITH WEST AYE. YES, I BELIEVE COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ? UH, YES, SIR. UH, THE, THE, THE REASON WHY I ASKED, UH, FOR THIS TO GET PULLED IS BECAUSE, UH, THERE WAS A, UH, I I WOULD SAY KIND OF A HIGH PROFILE, UH, SOMEWHAT POTENTIALLY CONTROVERSIAL, UM, ASPECT TO THE PROJECT WITH RESPECT TO THE VERY, VERY OLD, UH, DE GARZA HOUSE. UH, AND I I THINK IT'S VERY, UH, IMPORTANT THAT THE ARCHITECTURE TEAM BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO, UH, SHOW THE INCREDIBLE CREATIVITY THAT THEY DISPLAYED IN FINDING A SOLUTION THAT NOT ONLY, UM, UH, RESPECTS THE, THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE BUILDING, BUT BUT REALLY HONORS THE HISTORY OF THE MEXICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. BUT, BUT TO, TO THE POINT OF THE ARCHITECT, WHAT, WHAT I, I DON'T WANNA WASTE THE ARCHITECT'S TIME AND IN THE GENERAL PRESENTATION BECAUSE EVERYTHING I THINK IS WONDERFUL AND, AND, AND IS ALREADY ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. BUT WITH RESPECT TO THIS, AND THOSE WHO HAVE CONCERNS MAYBE LISTENING IN THE PUBLIC, UH, I THINK WHEN A, WHEN A, WHEN A, WHEN AN APPLICANT AND AN ARCHITECTURAL TEAM GO ABOVE AND BEYOND TO, TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, UH, THAT THAT HONORS AND CELEBRATES A PIECE OF HISTORIC STOCK IN Z SAN ANTONIO, THAT, THAT THIS TEAM IS THE KIND OF TEAM THAT WE SHOULD HOLD UP TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE LOOKING AT TRYING TO ATTEMPT THE SAME THING AS AS A SUCCESS. SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE ARCHITECT AND ASK HIM TO PLEASE, UH, CONCENTRATE ON, ON THAT AREA THAT I ASKED. WELL, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. AND, UH, I'M NOT THE ARCHITECT SO I CAN'T TAKE CREDIT FOR IT, BUT, UH, THIS WAS A, A LONG, WINDY ROAD TO GET TO THIS POINT AND APPRECIATE ALL THE FEEDBACK THAT WE RECEIVED FROM, UH, D R C AND THE H D R TEAM MEMBERS TO GET TO THIS POINT. AND ALL THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS REALLY, WE THINK THAT, UH, IT ENDED UP IN A GREAT SPOT BEING ABLE TO LEAVE THE DE LA GARZA HOUSE IN ITS CURRENT PLACE WHILE PROVIDING, UM, REALLY A, A, A GREAT PLACE MAKING MOMENT ON THE CORNER OF LAREDO STREET AND DE LA ROSA WHILE INCORPORATING, UM, A NEW RESIDENTIAL RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE BLOCK WHILE RENOVATING THE, UM, OSA, UH, STREET FRONT WITH THE IANA BUILDING AND ALSO THE CONTINENTAL BUILDING. SO WE THINK THAT IT, IT TURNED OUT TO BE A REALLY GREAT OUTCOME TO LEAD THE DAILY GUARD HOUSE IN PLACE. UM, WE THINK IT'LL BE, UH, UH, A GREAT ADDITION TO HAVE NEW RESIDENTIAL AND NEW LIFE TO THOSE HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT ARE ALREADY ON, UH, THE EXISTING BLOCK. THANK, THANK YOU, UH, FOR THAT, THAT, UH, A BRIEF PRESENTATION. UH, AND, AND MR. CHAIR, I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO, UM, REALLY CONGRATULATE WHAT ULTIMATELY IS ALWAYS THE, THE, UM, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT WORD, IS THE LINCHPIN, BUT THE, UH, THE, THE APPLICANT, THE THE PERSON WHO HIRED THE ARCHITECTS AND THE PERSON OR, OR THE TEAM, UH, WESTERN URBAN FOR, FOR REALLY DOING THE RIGHT THING. [00:20:02] A MILLION THANKS FROM ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CITY THAT, THAT MOVE TO YOUR LEADERSHIP TO DO THE RIGHT THING. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES, AND I WOULD ECHO ALL OF THOSE SENTIMENTS. WE'VE WORKED THROUGH SEVERAL DRCS WITH THE OWNER, APPLICANT, THE ARCHITECTS, AND I BELIEVE WHAT IS, UH, PRESENTED IN THE CONSENT AGENDA TODAY, UH, ADDRESSES ALL THOSE CONCERNS FOR THE, UH, SENSITIVE TREATMENT OF THE DE LA GARZA HOUSE, AS WELL AS THE OTHER HISTORIC BUILDINGS ON THE SITE. AND, UH, IF STAFF COULD JUST SORT OF ROLL THROUGH THE RENDERINGS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE, IN THIS PRESENTATION FOR THE PUBLIC TO SEE. AND MR. CHAIR, WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE THE HONOR MAKING THE MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THIS WONDERFUL PROJECT AS SUBMITTED AND AS PRESENTED IN THIS IN THE, UH, PACKAGE BEFORE US. WE HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. DO WE HAVE A SECOND GOING ON? I SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSION COMMISSIONERS? I DO WANNA NOTE THAT THERE ARE STIPULATIONS FROM STAFF THAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO YES. WITH STIPULATIONS AS AS SUBMITTED. AS AS PRESENTED. ALRIGHT, SO WE HAVE, UH, AN AMENDED MOTION WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AND I SECOND THAT AMENDED MOTION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE GIBBS, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT ONE MORE TIME? A QUEZ QUEZ AYE. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. AYE. ZER AYE. AYE. RUSSIAN PASSES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH [13. 21-4896 Address/Description: 920 BURLESON ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-321 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Patrick Callahan/Some Elbow Room Request: Construction of a rear accessory structure City Council Dist.: 2 ] ABOUT THAT. IT BRINGS US NEXT TO ITEM NUMBER 13, UH, NINE 20 BURLESON. RACHEL IS NOW ON THE LINE WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER FOR 9 39 20 BURLESON RABBIT. RACHEL, ARE YOU THERE? YES, I'M HERE. THE APPLICANT. VANESSA. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. I JUST HAD A FEW QUESTIONS, UM, CONCERNING YOUR CASE. UM, ONE IS, IS FOCUSED AROUND THE COMMUNITY QUESTIONS, UM, CONCERNING YOUR PROPERTY. UM, WERE WERE YOU ABLE TO HEAR THE COMMENTS FROM THE COMMUNITY? IF NOT, I CAN READ 'EM TO YOU. YES, I DID READ THEM. OKAY, PERFECT. UM, CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT, PLEASE? YES. SO I DID EMAIL EDWARD BACK. UH, I THINK THEIR CONCERNS WERE THAT THERE WAS NOT ADEQUATE MEASUREMENTS AND PICTURES AND, UM, MEASUREMENTS FOR THE DOORS, WINDOWS, AND PICTURES. ALL OF THAT WAS SENT IN AND EDWARD, UH, RECEIVED EVERYTHING HE NEEDED. THAT'S WHY WE WERE ABLE TO GET PUT ON THE AGENDA. SO I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT COMES FROM THAT, THAT THERE WAS NOT ADEQUATE PICTURES AND, AND MEASUREMENT. THANK YOU. UM, EDWARD, ARE WE, IS, COULD THERE HAVE BEEN A DISCONNECT BETWEEN, UM, I SHOULDN'T SAY DISCONNECT, BUT AN OVERLAP? THE TIME THAT THESE COMMENTS CAME THROUGH, THE TIME THAT YOU RECEIVED THE INFORMATION FROM THE APPLICANT? WELL, SO THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE HERE ON THE SCREEN ARE THE MOST RECENT UP-TO-DATE DOCUMENTS THAT THE APPLICANT'S PROVIDED. UH, THE, WHAT THE APPLICANT'S REFERRING TO IS STAFF, UH, TO ENSURE THAT APPLICANTS ARE AWARE OF COMMENTS, PROVIDE COMMENTS, UH, FROM THE COMMUNITY TO APPLICANTS. UM, THE EMAIL THAT SHE'S REFERRING TO THAT SHE SENT BACK WAS AN HOUR OR SO AGO. SO THE, THE, TO TO REITERATE THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE HERE ON THE SCREEN ARE THE DOCUMENTS THAT STAFF RECEIVED, THAT STAFF REVIEWED, AND THAT STAFF WROTE A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON UNDERSTOOD. UNDERSTOOD. SO MA'AM, UM, BASED ON THAT, UM, BASED ON YOUR INFORMATION THAT YOU SENT IN, BASED ON WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD STATED AND BASED ON, UM, WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING WITH THE STIPULATIONS, ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT WITH THOSE? YEAH, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION IS, I GUESS. OKAY. SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL, UM, [00:25:01] ON FINDINGS A THROUGH D WITH THE STIPULATION THAT PROFILE, UM, THAT THE PROFILE ONE 17 SITING BE INSTALLED MATCHING THAT PRIMARY SEARCH STRUCTURE, UM, THAT THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION FEATURE WINDOWS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS, UM, THAT WOOD DOOR BE INSTALLED AS NOTED IN FINDING C AND THAT THE APPLICANT ADHERE TO ALL ZONING SETBACKS IN FINDING D YES, I'M IN AGREEMENT. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE YOU, UH, MR. CHAIR, THAT CONCLUDES MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YES, MR. CHAIRMAN? UM, I, I PULLED THIS CASE SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE LANDSCAPING AND THE IMPERVIOUS COVER, UH, AND THAT THERE'S NOT MUCH OF A, A COMMENT ABOUT THAT IN THE, IN THE CASE, UH, WRITEUP AS PER THE, THE, UH, COMMUNITY, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S, UH, COMMENTS THEY SENT IN. SO, UM, I'M WONDERING IF, JUST SPEAKING TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN HAVE, UH, AS PART OF THE MOTION, UM, WHOEVER FORM FORMULATES THE MOTION THAT, THAT THERE BE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION DEVELOPED AND, AND, AND, UH, IN CONSULTATION WITH STAFF CONCERNING SOME OF THE, THE LANDSCAPING, UH, MATERIAL SELECTIONS AND TREATMENT AND, AND WHAT HAVE YOU. YES. UH, STAFF HAS, UH, LANDSCAPE PLAN BEEN SUBMITTED FOR THE BACKYARD? IT IS NOT, UH, STAFF CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT, UM, FOR ANY REAR YARD LANDSCAPE. AGAIN, WORK WITH THEM ON SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE, BE ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. UM, AT THIS TIME, SINCE LANDSCAPING WAS NOT PART OF THE OFFICIAL REQUEST AND WASN'T NOTED ON THE PUBLISHED AGENDA, UM, ACTION CAN'T BE TAKEN SPECIFICALLY ON LANDSCAPING ELEMENTS. UH, HOWEVER, STAFF CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT TO FIND A SOLUTION THAT'S ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL OR A LANDSCAPING, UH, PLAN NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE COMMISSION. STAFF CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT ON THAT. UH, MI MR. CHAIR? UM, YES, SIR. UH, I, UH, JUST ADDRESSING, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I, UH, I, I, I WAS, UH, THINKING THAT, THAT THE, UM, AS IT WAS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA THAT STAFF HAD ALREADY, UM, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERED AND, UH, UH, EDWARD CLARIFYING THAT, UH, IT WOULD BE ADMINISTRATIVE THAT THEY WOULD OVERSEE ANY, IF THERE WERE ANY CHANGES, UH, TO, TO THAT, THAT THAT COULD BE HANDLED THERE. SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT'D BE POSSIBLE TO JUST HAVE A CLEAN MOTION ON IT AS SUBMITTED AND THAT WITH EDWARD HAVING CLARIFIED THAT THAT STAFF WOULD HANDLE THE ADMINISTRATIVE CORRECT STAFF WILL WORK ON THE LANDSCAPING WITH THE APPLICANT. UM, WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON AND WHAT'S SPECIFICALLY IS POSTED TO THE AGENDA IS THE REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. AND MAY I ASK WHAT IS IS SAID THAT THE LANDSCAPING WAS NOT IMPERVIOUS WHEN IT IS. SO I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE COMPLAINT IS ABOUT THE LANDSCAPING. WELL, I THINK, I THINK THERE'S JUST CONCERNS ABOUT THE MATERIAL CHOICES AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT IF THAT'S NOT PART OF THE SUBMISSION, I GUESS I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE FACT THAT THE COMMISSION TODAY IS NOT APPROVING OR DISAPPROVING, UH, ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE LANDSCAPE, UH, DEVELOPMENT THAT, THAT NEEDS TO BE, UH, BROUGHT BACK AS A SEPARATE APPLICATION. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND. DO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I HAVE A ROLL CALL. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. YE. CARPENTER. CARPENTER. AYE. AYE. THAT AYE FU AYE. MOTION PASSES? YES. AND STAFF WILL BE GETTING BACK WITH THE APPLICANT ON WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR THE, UH, LANDSCAPE REVIEW AND APPROVAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, THAT CONCLUDES THE CONSENT AGENDA. UH, WE WILL NOW MOVE ON TO INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. UH, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF ITEMS THAT HAVE, UH, COMMENTS. SOME ITEMS HAVE MULTIPLE COMMENTS, UH, SO COM UH, CHAIRMAN FETZER, WHENEVER WE ARE READY TO HEAR PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW AND I'LL READ THOSE INTO THE RECORD. [16. 21-4892 Address/Description: 326 SEGUIN ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-291 Applicant: Marlene Hawkins/Government Hill Community Association Request: Finding of historic significance City Council Dist.: 2 ] UH, FIRST IS ITEM NUMBER 16, 3 26 SEIN, I BELIEVE, UM, JESSICA'S? YES, WE CAN. OKAY, GREAT. UM, [00:30:01] ITEM 16 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 2 91 3 26 SEINE STREET, A REQUEST FOR THE FOR REVIEW BY THE H D R C REGARDING ELIGIBILITY OF THE TWO STORY STONE CLOUD BUILDING LOCATED AT 3 26 SEINE STREET. FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, A PROPERTY MUST MEET THREE OF 16 CRITERIA UNDER U B C SECTION 35 6 0 7 B. IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR LOCAL HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION, STAFF FINDS THAT 3 26 SINE STREET MEETS TWO CRITERIA. THEREFORE, STAFF FINDS THAT THE PROPERTY IS NOT ELIGIBLE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH G AND DOES NOT RECOMMEND A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE TO THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION. UM, I ATTEMPTED TO REACH THE APPLICANT WITH THE GOVERNMENT HILL COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION. WE'RE STILL TRYING, SO, UM, I BELIEVE JENNY HAS THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THE LINE. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO GO THERE FIRST WHILE WE CONTINUE TO TRY TO REACH THE APPLICANT. THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. IF YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO REACH THE APPLICANT, I DO WANT TO, UH, WE HAD A D R C YESTERDAY, UH, A VIRTUAL D R C TO DISCUSS THIS CASE. THE APPLICANT WAS THERE, THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS THERE, AND WE REVIEWED, UH, THE INFORMATION, UM, THE APPLICANT, I BELIEVE, UH, MR. JOHN, I MEAN, THE PROPERTY OWNER, MR. JOHNS. UH, IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS NOW AND THEN WE CAN GET THE, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS READ INTO THE RECORD. UH, YES, SIR. THIS, UH, CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, SIR. MY NAME IS HUGH JOHNS. I AM, UH, ONE OF THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY. UM, AND WE HAD THE HISTORY OF THIS PROPERTY IS WE PURCHASED IT THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, UM, FOR USE AS A CONSTRUCTION LAY DOWN YARD AND FOR CONSTRUCTION USE, IT IS ZONED I TWO HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. AND, UH, AS PART OF OUR PURCHASE, WE, WE DEALT WITH, UH, JUST BY HAPPENSTANCE, THE BROKER WAS JOHN BLAZER. UM, HIS, THE BLAZER FAMILY, UH, OPERATED THIS PROPERTY AS A A ASPHALT CONSTRUCTION YARD, UH, LONG AGO. AND I BELIEVE IT'S, IT, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT BUILT THE, THE BUILDING IN QUESTION THE COLD GLAZER FAMILY. UM, SO JOHN WAS INVOLVED NOT ONLY, UH, HIS FAMILY WITH BUILDING IT, BUT ALSO IN SELLING IT TO ME. UH, AT THE TIME WE PURCHASED IT, WE DID LOOK INTO ANY HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE AND WE DID NOT FIND ANY, UH, AS WELL AS JOHN, UH, COLE BLAZER HIMSELF INDICATED, UH, NO HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE IN HIS OPINION. UM, I HAVE, UH, SINCE THEN, UH, WE, WE'VE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH THE PROPERTY. IT'S JUST AN OLD OFFICE BUILDING, UM, THAT WAS BUILT, UH, UH, FOR USE AS A CONSTRUCTION OFFICE, AND WE'VE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE IT. UM, IF WE COULD USE IT, IT WOULD NEED SUBSTANTIAL REMODEL. IT, IT DOESN'T FIT OUR CURRENT USE. UH, WE'VE LOOKED AT ADDING ONTO IT. UH, BOTTOM LINE IS ECONOMIC REASONS. IT JUST DOES NOT FIT OUR, OUR NEEDS OR OUR USE. AND SO WE HAVE SUBMITTED TO, UH, UH, DEMO, DEMO THE BUILDING, UM, AND, UH, PUT UP A, AN OFFICE BUILDING ON, ON A DIFFERENT LOCATION ON THE PROPERTY. UM, THE BUILDING IS A, IS A, UH, IS A STICK FRAME STRUCTURE. UM, IT IS WOOD FRAMED. IT'S SINGLE GABLE. AS YOU CAN SEE. ALL THE WINDOWS ARE ALUMINUM CLAD. THEY'RE, THEY'RE RELATIVELY NEW, IN MY OPINION. OF COURSE, I'M NO HISTORIC EXPERT, BUT I JUST, I DON'T SEE THEM AS, AS BEING VERY OLD. UM, THE, THE BUILDING DOES HAVE, UH, A ROCK, YOU KNOW, ROCK AROUND IT, BUT IT IS A FACADE. THERE'S NO STRUCTURAL ROCK ANYWHERE ON THE BUILDING ITSELF. UM, ALL THE WINDOWS HAVE LENTIL, METAL LENTILS SUPPORTING, UH, THE ROCK ABOVE. UM, AND I HAVE, UH, IN THE PROCESS OF SUBMITTING THE DEMOLITION APPLICATION, THE STAFF HAS COME OUT, WE'VE MET WITH THEM ON SITE. THEY'VE REVIEWED INSIDE AND OUT OF THE BUILDING, ULTIMATELY COMING TO THE CONCLUSION THAT, UM, THAT THE BUILDING WAS APPROVED FOR DEMOLITION. AND THEN RIGHT AFTER THAT CONCLUSION WAS REACHED, THERE WAS AN APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY A THIRD PARTY WHOM WE, WE ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH, UH, REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COMMUNITY. UM, THE OWNER. WE ARE NOT IN FAVOR OF LANDMARK DESIGNATION, OBVIOUSLY. UM, AND, AND OF COURSE, WE'RE NEW TO THIS PROCESS. SO IN GOING THROUGH IT, UH, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO [00:35:01] UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY. I DID SUBMIT, I, I HOPE IT'S IN YOUR PACKET, BUT I DID SUBMIT, OR ACTUALLY I DIDN'T. JOHN BLAZER HIMSELF DID SUBMIT AN EMAIL, UM, OUTLINING SOME OF HIS OPINIONS AND HISTORY ABOUT THIS BUILDING FROM THE FAMILY'S PERSPECTIVE. UH, THE REASON THE COLD BLAZER NAME IS COMING UP IS I BELIEVE IT WAS ALLEGED THAT, UH, THAT, UH, UH, LIEUTENANT GENERAL ROBERT COLD BLAZER JR. WHO WAS A HIGHLY DECORATED, UH, MILITARY VETERAN IN SAN ANTONIO, WAS PART OF BUILDING OR OCCUPYING THIS, THIS OFFICE BUILDING. UM, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE COMPONENTS THAT, UH, THE APPLICANT ALLEGED. UH, AND I BELIEVE MAYBE THE STAFF FOUND EVIDENCE OF, UM, MR. K GLAZER, JOHN K GLAZER'S EMAIL JUST PUTS INTO DISPUTE WHETHER, UH, THAT GENTLEMAN, THE DECORATED MILITARY VETERAN WAS INDEED, UH, HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS BUILDING AT ALL. UM, AND IN PARTICULAR, HE, UH, HE MENTIONED THAT HIS GREAT UNCLE, UH, THE LIEUTENANT GENERAL WAS CITED HIS HISTORY AS BEING PART OF THE K GLAZER AND HOF CONSTRUCTION COMPANY WAS CITED INCORRECTLY IN THE DOCUMENTS IN THE APPLICATION THAT HE HAD LITTLE TO NO INVOLVEMENT IN THE OPERATION OF K GLAZER AND HOF CONSTRUCTION COMPANY. UH, HE HAD A VERY EXTENSIVE MILITARY CAREER, WHICH OCCUPIED HIS ENTIRE WORKING LIFE THROUGH RETIREMENT. UM, IN INSTEAD, UH, THE, UH, THE, UH, LIEUTENANT GENERAL'S BROTHERS BILL AND JIM OLD GLAZER WERE THE ACTUAL ONES THAT, THAT BUILT THE BUILDING AND OCCUPIED THE CONSTRUCTION COMPANY. UM, I JUST BRING THAT UP AS POTENTIALLY DISPUTED FACTS ABOUT A SIGNIFICANT PERSON, UH, THAT WAS ALLEGED IN THE APPLICATION IS ACTUALLY HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE BUILDING. UM, OTHERWISE, MR. BLAZER POINTS OUT, I THINK, SIGNIFICANTLY THAT THE FAMILY HAS NO ISSUE WITH THE DEMOLITION. UM, THEY, THEY DESCRIBE THE STRUCTURE AS BEING BUILT OUT OF SIMPLE INDUSTRIAL LAY DOWN YARD MATERIALS THAT THE FAMILY HAD ON THEIR, THEIR CONSTRUCTION YARD. UM, AND IT WAS BUILT BY, UM, I BELIEVE HE SAID, YARD WORKERS BETWEEN THEIR JOBS AND THAT THE, UH, THE MATERIALS USED WERE BASIC WASTE FOR MINING, UH, OF ROCK USED TO DO ASPHALT PAVING, UM, WHICH WAS THE COMPANY'S CORE BUSINESS. HE, HE MENTIONED, UH, THAT HIS FAMILY, THE COLD GLAZER FAMILY, THOUGHT NOTHING OF THE BUILDING WHEN THEY MOVED THEIR CONSTRUCTION COMPANY TO BRACKEN TEXAS IN, IN, I BELIEVE, THE SEVENTIES. AND, UH, HE SAYS THAT THE BUILDING HAS SERVED ITS PURPOSES, UH, AS FAR AS THE FAMILY'S CONCERNED, AND THEY HAVE MOVED ON. UM, AND THEN CONCLUDES BY SAYING THAT THE COLD LEISURES HAVE NO ISSUE WITH DEMOLITION, ESPECIALLY, UH, FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY, FOR THE GOOD OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, OVERALL WE WANT TO DO WHAT'S RIGHT AS A, A RESPONSIBLE PROPERTY OWNER IN THE CITY. WE, WE CONSIDER SAN ANTONIO OUR HOME. UH, WE, WE REALLY BELIEVE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE CITY, OUR OPERATION DEFINITELY IS FURTHER SERVED BY, UH, BUILDING A DIFFERENT OFFICE ON THE PROPERTY. BUT WE'VE LOOKED INTO THIS OFFICE BUILDING AND IT JUST SEEMS, UH, VERY, VERY LIMITED HISTORIC, IF ANY SIGNIFICANCE. UM, AND SO WE WOULD RECOMMEND, UH, GOING WITH THE STAFF APPROVAL OF DENYING THE APPLICATION. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, JESSICA, HAVE WE GOTTEN THE APPLICANT YET ON THE PHONE? UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE NOT. OKAY. THEN, UH, EDWARD, WOULD YOU READ, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS? YES, I WILL. WE HAVE TWO PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THIS CASE. THE FIRST COMES FROM DIGNITY, WOODY HILL, HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS, UH, AND THEIR COMMENT READS, WE SUPPORT THE REQUEST FOR FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THIS STRUCTURE. AT THIS TIME, STAFF'S REVIEW ACKNOWLEDGES ONLY TWO CRITERIA, NUMBERS THREE AND FIVE. HOWEVER, THE STRUCTURE ALSO CONFORMS TO CRITERIA EIGHT. ITS HISTORICAL, ARCHITECTURAL OR CULTURAL INTEGRITY OF LOCATION DESIGN, MATERIALS, AND WORKMANSHIP IS DEPICTED IN ITS LOCATION AS AN OFFICE AND DEPOT FOR INCOMING MATERIALS AND SUPPLIES AT THE SOUTHERN PACIFIC RAIL YARD. THE TYPOLOGY OF THE STRUCTURE IS UNUSUAL AS BOTH AN OFFICE SPACE AND WORKSHOP SPACE. WITHIN THE SAME TWO STORY STRUCTURE, THE DISTINCT PROGRAMMING FOR THE BUILDING IS READILY LEGIBLE BY THE SIZE AND PLACEMENT OF WINDOWS AND OTHER OPENINGS. THE SECOND FLOOR SPACE IS SURROUNDED WITH PLENTY OF WINDOWS [00:40:01] PROVIDED, PROVIDING LIGHT FOR THE OFFICES AND VIEWS OF THE WORKY YARD. THE EXTERIOR MATERIAL TO USE ARE COMMON FOR THE SOUTH TEXAS, FOR SOUTH TEXAS, AND CENTRAL TEXAS, BUT WERE ALSO APPROPRIATE FOR AN INDUSTRIAL WORKY YARD AND DIFFERENT FROM OTHER INDUSTRIAL STRUCTURES OF THE TIME THAT WERE TYPICALLY CONCRETE BLOCK WITH CONCRETE STUCCO. THIS DURABLE MATERIAL WAS SYMBOLIC OF THE PRODUCT PROVIDED BY THE COAL GLAZER COM CONSTRUCTION COMPANY. LIMESTONE WAS AN ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT IN THEIR ROADWORK PRODUCT. THE SECOND COMMENT WE HAVE COMES FROM KATHY RHODES OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THEIR COMMENT READS, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO SUPPORTS THE FINDING OF HIS OF SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE BUILDING AT 3 26 STREET. WE CONCUR THAT THE BUILDING MEETS CRITERION THREE DUE TO ITS ASSOCIATION WITH THE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT COAL GLACIER COMPANY AND FAMILY, AND CRITERION FIVE, DUE TO ITS DISTINCTIVE ARCHITECTURAL EXPRESSION. BY COMBINING THE IRREGULAR STONE FACING POPULAR AND RESIDENTIAL ARCHITECTURE IN EARLY 20TH CENTURY WITH A PRAIRIE STYLE BUILDING OF IN, OF SECOND FLOOR WINDOWS, THIS BUILDING CREATES AN EXPRESSION UNIQUE ENOUGH THAT IT ALSO FULFILLS CRITERION 12. WE ALSO FIND THAT THE BUILDING MEETS CRITERION EIGHT DUE TO ITS HISTORIC AND ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF LOCATION, DESIGNED MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP LOCATED ON A RAILROAD. THE BUILDING WAS A SOURCE OF NEW ROAD CONSTRUCTION FOR SAN ANTONIO, AND THUS, VISUALLY DESCRIBES THE TRANSITION FROM RAILROAD CULTURE TO AUTOMOBILE CULTURE. FOR THESE FOUR REASONS, WE URGE THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION TO ISSUE A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. AND THAT CONCLUDES THE PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THIS ITEM. ALRIGHT, UH, DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FOR STAFF OR THE PROPERTY OWNER? MR. I HAVE A, A QUESTION FOR STAFF, BUT ALSO KIND OF AN OBSERVATION. UH, THI THIS IS, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THESE SITUATIONS THAT PROBABLY WOULD BE BEST TO, TO, UM, UH, SAY THAT WHAT TRIGGERED THE, THE APPLICATION WOULD'VE BEEN THE APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION. SO A PERSON PUTS A APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION FOR A BUILDING THAT IS SITTING THERE THAT, THAT NO ONE HAS ANY CONCERN ABOUT, AND THEN THEY WANNA DEMOLISH IT. AND THEN REALLY, ENTITIES THAT SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN CONCERNED, THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN DO THE 11TH HOUR, UH, STRATEGY TO STOP A DEMOLITION. OKAY? NOW, THAT BEING SAID, UH, THAT IS THAT FOR, FOR MY PART, UH, YOU KNOW, TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. RIGHT? I'LL GET TO THE SECOND WRONG, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE FIRST WRONG. THAT DOESN'T MAKE A RIGHT. AND, AND WE, WE'VE SEEN THIS QUITE A BIT ALREADY, RIGHT? AND, AND, UH, IN THE CONTROVERSIES, IT HIT US ABOUT WHY, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, BUILDINGS ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME IMPORTANT WHEN SOMEONE DECIDES THEY WANNA TEAR IT DOWN, BUT NOT BEFORE, RIGHT? NOW, ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT, UH, WHEN WE GET THESE DEMOLITION, UH, REQUESTS, BUT THERE IS NO PLAN SUBMITTED FOR, UH, UH, WHAT CONSTRUCTION IS, UM, UH, NECESSITATING THE DEMOLITION OF A BUILDING THAT POSSIBLY MIGHT BE HISTORIC. RIGHT? AT LEAST FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THOSE THAT ARE SUBMITTING THE APPLICATION, RIGHT? BUT AGAIN, LIKE 2, 2, 2 KIND OF WRONGS, YOU DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. AND IT PUTS US IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION BECAUSE IT, IT IS, IT'S REALLY KIND OF A HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR US TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, EMPOWERING THIS USE OF, OF LANDMARK, UH, STATUS, UH, UH, EMPOWERING ORGANIZATIONS THAT RE REALLY SHOULD BE SUBMITTING FOR HISTORIC STATUS ON BUILDINGS THAT THEY THINK ARE IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND NOT WAITING FOR A DEMOLITION. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK WITH STAFF, I, I, I'M VERY CURIOUS WITH STAFF AS TO WHY THIS BUILDING IS NOT SEEN AS, UM, YOU KNOW, APPLICABLE FOR, FOR HISTORIC IN REFERENCE TO OTHER BUILDINGS THAT, THAT SEEM TO BE APPLICABLE. UH, I'D LIKE TO ASK EDWARD IF HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO, TO, UM, UH, AN ANSWER THAT AND, AND PERHAPS STOP THE CLOCK ON ME. THANK YOU. UH, I WOULD ACTUALLY, UH, DEFER, I BELIEVE DR. JENNY HAY, WHO IS THE PROGRAM MANAGER FOR SCOUT SA, IS PART OF THIS HEARING, AS WELL AS OUR DEPUTY DIRECTOR COREY EDWARDS. YEAH. IF JENNY'S UNAVAILABLE, LET'S GO AHEAD AND GO TO THE FINDINGS. WHICH SHOW? SHOW. UM, I'M HERE. I'M HERE. OH, GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD, JENNY. YEAH. HI. I'M SORRY, IT JUST TOOK ME A SECOND TO, TO UNMUTE. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. YES, I CAN SPEAK, UM, A LITTLE BIT TO THE ANALYSIS OF, UH, OF THIS APPLICATION. SO OF, UH, STAFF REVIEWED, UM, THE PROPERTY A COUPLE OF TIMES, BOTH WHEN THAT, UM, DEMOLITION REQUEST INITIALLY CAME IN, AND THEN AGAIN WITH A FRESH LOOK BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT AS PART OF THIS THIRD PARTY REQUEST [00:45:01] FOR REVIEW. AND, UM, I REVIEW, YOU KNOW, DID INDICATE THAT THERE WERE, UM, UH, TWO CRITERIA THAT WERE VERY CLEARLY SUPPORTED BY THE DOCUMENTATION THAT WE RECEIVED AND, UH, WERE ABLE TO, TO, UM, REVIEW. UM, BUT THERE WAS NOT A THIRD, AND SO IT, IT JUST SIMPLY DID NOT MEET THE THRESHOLD FOR LANDMARK ELIGIBILITY, UM, BASED ON OUR REVIEW OF THE INFORMATION THAT WAS AVAILABLE, UM, AS WE WERE, UH, AS WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS AGAIN, BOTH TIMES WHEN, WHEN WE REVIEWED THE DEMOLITION REQUEST, AND THEN AGAIN WHEN WE RECEIVED THIS THIRD PARTY REQUEST FOR REVIEW. SO, SO I GUESS THE SHORT, THE SHORT OF IT IS THE, THE, THERE WAS NOT THREE CRITERIA IDENTIFIED, JUST TWO. WE FELT THAT THE INFORMATION PROVIDED SUPPORTED TWO BUT NOT THREE AND LANDMARK, UH, IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE TO, FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, UM, A PROPERTY MUST MEET THREE. UH OH. OKAY. UM, MR. CHAIR, UH, THIS IS A, UM, VERY HARD, UH, SITUATION TO BE PUT IN BECAUSE, UM, THERE'S AN APPLICATION FOR DEFINITION THAT AT THAT POINT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE IF THERE WAS A, A DEMONSTRATION, AN ILLUSTRATION OF WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, TO MAKE IT, UM, UH, TO DENY RIGHT, THE, THE APPLICATION, UH, FOR LANDMARK STATUS THEN OPENS A WAY FOR DEMOLITION WITHOUT THERE BEING A, A, UM, YOU KNOW, A, A PROPOSAL YET, MAYBE IT SHOULDN'T BE A LANDMARK. I, I, I JUST, UM, I JUST HOPE THAT, THAT, THAT WE'RE LISTENING VERY CLOSELY TO WHAT THE, THE, UH, THE PARTICULARS OF THIS CASE ARE, SO THAT MAYBE WE CAN, AND, AND SOMETIME TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE CASES LIKE THIS MAKE SENSE? THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I'D LIKE TO ADD A FEW COMMENTS, UH, BASED UPON MY PARTICIPATION IN YESTERDAY'S, UH, D R C MEETING THAT MIGHT HELP TO ILLUMINATE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER IS, IS ASKING ABOUT THE, THE, THE ONE, THE WHY, WHY, WHY NOW. AND THAT'S BEING, UH, INSTIGATED BY THE DEMOLITION. BUT THE APPLICANT, UH, FOR THIS IS A THIRD PARTY WHO'S BEEN, UH, UH, INVOLVED IN, UH, SURVEYS OF THE OLD SPANISH TRAIL OF HISTORIC RESOURCES ALONG THAT, UH, ROUTE, UH, FOR MANY YEARS. AND THEY HAD BEEN INCLUDED THIS IN THEIR SURVEY INFORMATION AS A BUILDING OF SIGNIFICANCE. UH, BUT BECAUSE THERE'S NOT, SAY A DISTRICT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THEM TO IMPLEMENT ANY KIND OF, UH, DESIGNATION, THERE WAS JUST NO IMPETUS TO DO IT. YOU KNOW, SO OFTEN WE ARE IN THIS SITUATION WHERE IT'S ONLY WITH A RESOURCES UNDER THREAT THAT PEOPLE ARE THEN WILLING TO ORGANIZE TO TRY TO SAVE SOMETHING. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THIS IS, THEY JUST CAME OUTTA THE WOODWORK AND HAD NEVER NOTICED THIS BUILDING BEFORE. IT HAD BEEN IN, INCLUDED IN A SURVEY OF THE OLD SPANISH TRAIL, UH, ROUTE ALONG WITH NUMEROUS OTHER RESOURCES. I THINK THE OTHER COMMENT ABOUT A REPLACEMENT PLAN, USUALLY IF IT IS A HISTORIC DESIGNATION, A SITE OR WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE, UH, OWNER WOULD BE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE A REPLACEMENT PLAN, BUT BECAUSE IT ISN'T, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO. AND, AND, UH, THE OWNER SHARED WITH US THAT THE, THE MAIN MOTIVATION, UH, BEHIND THEIR DESIRE TO DEMO THE STRUCTURE IS THAT THEY'RE WANTING TO SUBDIVIDE THE PARCEL TO, TO GO THROUGH A, A RE PLATING. AND THAT STRUCTURE IS SOMEHOW, UH, LIMITING THEIR ABILITY TO SUBDIVIDE THE PROPERTY UP. SO THAT'S, THAT'S MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY THAT CAME OUT OF THE DISCUSSION, UH, AT YESTERDAY'S MEETING. I PERSONALLY THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS BUILDING APPEARS TO ME TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, A A, A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A REGIONAL VERNACULAR, UH, OF AN INDUSTRIAL BUILDING TYPE THAT, UH, UNFORTUNATELY SO OFTEN DOES GET OVERLOOKED BECAUSE WE TEND TO FOCUS ONLY ON HIGH STYLE OR RESIDENTIAL OR, OR, OR VERY, UM, UH, HIGH PROFILE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. AND SOME OF THESE, UH, KIND OF MORE UTILITARIAN STRUCTURES TEND TO GET OVERLOOKED. AND YET THEY'RE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE HISTORY, THE CHAPTER OF HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO'S DEVELOPMENT AS AN INDUSTRIAL CENTER. AND, UH, I, I THINK THIS ONE HAS SOME POTENTIAL FOR BEING SIGNIFICANT IN, IN TALKING ABOUT [00:50:01] THAT CHAPTER. MY CONCERN, AND ONE OF MY QUESTIONS YESTERDAY WAS THE FACT THAT THE WINDOWS HAD BEEN REPLACED. 'CAUSE THEY APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN REPLACED TO ME. AND, UM, I TAKE THESE SORT OF DESIGNATIONS VERY SERIOUSLY. I WANT THEM TO BE A FINE EXAMPLE OF A UTILITARIAN BUILDING, YOU KNOW, AND IN ORDER TO BE A FINE EXAMPLE OF, OF THAT UTILITARIAN OF THE HISTORIC UTILITARIAN BUILDING, I FEEL LIKE IT NEEDS TO HAVE, UH, GOOD HISTORICAL INTEGRITY. SO I'M, I'M VERY, UH, PERSONALLY VERY SPLIT ON THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT, IT HAS A LOT OF POTENTIAL, BUT THEN IT HAS A FEW MARKS GOING AGAINST IT. I, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT BUILDING FOR REHABILITATION AND, AND ADAPTIVE USE AND BECOME, UH, KIND OF A FLAGSHIP FOR THIS NEW COMPANY'S, UH, HEADQUARTERS THERE ON THAT PROPERTY. UH, IT'S INTERESTING THAT HISTORICALLY, UH, THE PEOPLE WHO BUILT THIS BUILDING WERE IN THE SAME BUSINESS AS THE CURRENT OWNER, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WOULD BE A MARKETING STORY THERE, UH, THAT COULD BE OF BENEFICIAL, UH, BENEFIT TO THIS, THIS OWNER, EVEN IF THE STRUCTURE WASN'T DESIGNATED AS HISTORIC, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT COULD BE A GREAT CHARACTER DEFINING, UH, FEATURE TO THEIR PROPERTY. SO I SHARE THOSE, THOSE INSIGHTS WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. YES, THANK YOU. UH, I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID, AND I TEND TO AGREE WITH THE ADDITIONAL CRITERIA BEING MET THAT HAVE BEEN LISTED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CRITERIA EIGHT AND 12. UH, LOOKING AT THOSE CRITERIA, THE 16 POSSIBLE CRITERIA, I COULD ALSO SEE IT COMPLYING WITH NUMBER SIX AND NUMBER 11. NUMBER SIX IS THE, UM, HISTORICAL, ARCHITECTURAL OR CULTURAL CHARACTER AS A PARTICULARLY FINE OR UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF A UTILITARIAN STRUCTURE. AND I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER CARPENTER THAT THIS IS A RATHER UNIQUE UTILITARIAN STRUCTURE, AN OFFICE BUILDING. AND THEN, UH, CRITERIA 11, UH, IT IS DISTINCTIVE IN CHARACTER, INTEREST OR VALUE, STRONGLY EXEMPLIFYING THE CULTURAL, ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, ETHNIC, OR HISTORICAL HERITAGE OF SAN ANTONIO AND THE ECONOMIC HERITAGE, UH, OF SAN ANTONIO THAT THE COLGATE COAL GLAZER CONSTRUCTION COMPANY HAD, UH, PROVIDED TO THE, UH, HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO. SO I, I SEE POTENTIALLY MORE THAN JUST THE MINIMUM THREE CRITERIA, UH, SHOWING THAT THIS PRO THIS PROPERTY COULD BE, UH, ELIGIBLE FOR LANDMARK STATUS. OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? DO I HAVE A MOTION? Y Y YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIR, UM, IT, TO, TO, TO GENERATE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO, TO ENTER INTO OFFICIAL DIALOGUE, RIGHT? MOTIONS REQUIRED, AND, UM, UM, AND THE SECONDS REQUIRED. UH, I THINK THE SILENCE, UM, IS NOT ABOUT THE SILENCE THAT WE JUST GOT. I DON'T THINK IT'S ABOUT, UH, WHAT WE, UM, KNOW, UH, AND APPRECIATE ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED. BUT IT DOES, IT DOES GIVE A VERY REAL ILLUSTRATION, DEMONSTRATION OF, IN TERMS OF DELIBERATION OF THE REAL WEIRD POSITION, IT PUTS A COMMISSIONER IN, IN MAKING A DECISION. OF COURSE, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE, RIGHT? TO MAKE THOSE DIFFICULT DECISIONS. MY PROBLEM WITH THIS IS THAT IT, IT, I HATE THE WAY THAT IT SEEMS AS A CONSEQUENCE, RIGHT? SO I'D LIKE TO ASK THE, THE APPLICANT, RIGHT, NOT THE APPLICANT, THE, THE, THE OWNER OR THE PROPERTY, UH, UH, MANAGER, THE MANAGER OF THIS APPLICATION, I'D LIKE TO ASK HIM, SIR, DO, DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR, LIKE YOUR, UM, REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION, UH, HAS RECEIVED KIND OF A, A PENALTY? DOES IT MAKE, DOES, DOES IT GIVE YOU THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU'VE BEEN PENALIZED FOR OFFICIALLY REQUESTING A DEMOLITION? THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THE, NOT, NOT THE APPLICANT WHO'S NOT HERE, BUT THE OTHER OWNER. THAT'S ME. UM, I, LET ME MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. UM, A, A PENALTY BEING THAT I'VE, I'VE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY [00:55:01] FOLKS, I BELIEVE I'M A RESPONSIBLE PROPERTY OWNER. I TRY TO DO THE RIGHT THING. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT INCLUDED A LOT OF RESEARCH ON MY END BEFORE WE EVEN PURCHASED THIS PROPERTY. UM, WHICH BY THE WAY, FOR THE RECORD, THIS PROPERTY HAS A, A VERY TAINTED HISTORY IN, IN TERMS OF CUSTODIAL AND, AND, UH, AND, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, HAZARDOUS, UH, USE. UH, THE, THE PERSON THAT WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY FROM HAD A TENANT THAT, UH, YOU MAY RECALL IN THE NEWS MANY YEARS AGO, WAS RECYCLING MATERIAL. AND THEY WERE NOT GETTING RID OF ANYTHING. THEY WERE JUST STOCKPILING IT ALL OVER THE PROPERTY. AND IT ENDED UP BECOMING A HUGE PUBLIC NUISANCE, UM, TO THE POINT TO WHERE THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO HAD TO REVOKE THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY FOR THIS VERY BUILDING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN, IN HOPES TO TRY TO, TO GET THE PROPERTY OWNER TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND CLEAN IT UP. AND FORTUNATELY HE DID. HE SPENT SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS CLEANING UP HIS PROPERTY. UH, THE TENANT UNFORTUNATELY SKIPPED TOWN AND, UH, DID NOT DO THE RIGHT THING, BUT THE LANDOWNER DID. UM, HE SOLD THE PROPERTY TO US. WE, WE HAVE IMPROVED IT SIGNIFICANTLY, UH, COMPLYING WITH ALL THE REGULATORY REQUIREMENTS AND EVEN MORE. UM, AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO SO IN THE FUTURE. WE HAVE LOOKED AT THIS UPSIDE DOWN AND SIDEWAYS. AND, UM, THERE'S, THERE IS A TENSION BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO KEEP SOMETHING THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BE A, A A, IN MY TERM, A NEAT, A NEAT BUILDING. UM, BUT, BUT ALSO I HAVE ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS AND WHATNOT. AND I THINK IT'S VERY SIGNIFICANT, THE COMMENT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER, THAT NOBODY'S FOUND THIS BUILDING SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO APPLY FOR ANY SORT OF HISTORIC DESIGNATION UNTIL NOW. YOU KNOW, IF, IF THERE IS A FAULT ON MY END FOR NOT DOING SOMETHING IN ADDITION TO WHAT THE, THE LAW REQUIRES ME TO DO IN SUBMITTING FOR A DEMO PERMIT, WELL THEN THAT'S ON ME. AND I WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO HELP ANY WAY I CAN. BUT I BELIEVE I'VE COMPLIED. I BELIEVE WE'VE EVALUATED OUR USE OF THE PROPERTY IN A REASONABLE AND RESPONSIBLE MANNER. UM, I BELIEVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION THAT IT DOES NOT MEET LANDLORD LANDMARK DESIGNATION IS A RESPONSIBLE AND A, AND A, AN ACCURATE, UM, INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW IN TERMS OF THIS BUILDING, UH, AS THEY ARE THE EXPERTS. AND WE, UH, WE DO HAVE USES FOR THIS PROPERTY, UM, AS THE COAL BLAZER FAMILY DID, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE INTEND TO HOPEFULLY PURSUE AND, AND IN THE RIGHT WAY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION ABOUT, UH, IN FULL, BUT YES, I MEAN, I THINK I, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE ACTED APPROPRIATELY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN AT THE LAST HOUR, SOMEBODY RUSHED IN AND, AND THREW UP A RED FLAG AND SAID, NO, NO, YOU CAN'T, YOU CANNOT DO WHAT THE LAW SAYS YOU CAN DO, YOU'VE GOTTA STOP. UM, I WILL NOTE BY THE WAY, THAT OUR, OUR, UH, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, I BELIEVE IT'S CALLED, WAS APPROVED BY STAFF, UM, FOR DEMOLITION FOR THIS BUILDING ON, I BELIEVE IT WAS JUNE 4TH. AND, AND THERE WAS SIX DAYS IN BETWEEN WHEN THERE WAS AN APPROVAL OF DEMOLITION TILL THE APPLICATION FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION WAS, WAS FILED. UM, SO AGAIN, THAT DOES POINT TO THE FACT THAT, UH, THINGS WERE MOVING, UH, TOWARDS DEMOLITION IN THE ORDINARY COURSE OF THE LAW, AND THEN THIS APPLICATION WAS FILED NOW TO PUT THE BRAKES ON EVERYTHING. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING. WE ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO BE A RESPONSIBLE LANDOWNER. IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD HELP THE PANEL, I WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN IT, UH, FOR SURE. UM, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE COMPLIED AND, AND, UH, STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED THE APPROPRIATE, UH, UH, CONCLUSION OF ONLY TWO OUT OF THE 16 ITEMS BEING MET. SIR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS ARE, ARE MUCH APPRECIATED, I THINK IN, IN, IN, IN ALSO UNDERSTANDING THE COMPLEXITY, UH, OF THE SITUATION. YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS, UH, I THINK ALSO DEMONSTRATE THAT I, A QUESTION FOR STAFF, UM, MR. CHAIR, UH, WHO, WHO DO I DIRECT MY, MY, MY QUESTIONS TO, TO STAFF? WHO, WHO'S THE STAFF PERSON? I BELIEVE IT'D BE DR. HAY. DR. HAY. I, I'VE GOT, UM, WELL, I, I THOUGHT I HAD A CLEAR QUESTION, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING FROM WHAT THE, WHAT THE APPLICANT IS SAYING IS THAT THIS DEMOLITION REQUEST WAS [01:00:01] APPROVED THROUGH ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? YES. SO, UM, THIS REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION, REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION WAS REVIEWED, UM, AND APPROVED IN JUNE AS THE APPLICANT, OR EXCUSE ME, AS THE PROPERTY OWNER STATED. AND, UM, AND WHEN I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT WE HAD REVIEWED THE PROPERTY AS PART OF THE DEMOLITION REQUEST, THAT'S, THAT'S THE REQUEST I WAS, UM, UM, ALLUDING TO. AND, UH, AND HIS STATEMENT IS ACCURATE. WE DID, UM, PROVIDE A, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS SAYING THAT, UM, THE, THE REVIEW OF OUR STAFF HAD NOT INDICATED THAT IT WAS AN ELIGIBLE, UM, LANDMARK. WHAT WE, UM, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT, AND I GUESS THE TIMELINE THAT'S IMPORTANT HERE IS THAT THE, UH, REQUEST FOR REVIEW OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE WAS SUBMITTED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A DEMOLITION PERMIT BY THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT. AND SO UPON RECEIPT OF THAT REQUEST, THE, UM, DEMOLITION PERMIT COULD NO LONGER BE ISSUED UNTIL THIS QUESTION, THE QUESTION OF ELIGIBILITY THAT WAS RAISED BY THAT REQUEST WAS ANSWERED BY THIS COMMISSION. DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? IT, IT DOESN'T. AND MR. CHAIR, YOU, YOU KNOW, FOR THE RECORD, I DON'T KNOW HOW SOMEBODY WOULD, WOULD, WOULD INDICATE THIS IN THE RECORD IN A BRIEF WAY. I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF. I THINK THIS IS WHAT, WHAT THE PROBLEM, WHERE THE PROBLEM EXISTS AND WHY IT'S SUCH A DIFFICULT PROJECT THAT THE POWERS THAT, THAT, THAT ADMINISTRATION HAS TO HAVE AT ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL OF A DEMOLITION IS INCONSISTENT WITH ANYTHING THAT COMES BEFORE THE H D R C WITH RESPECT TO A DEMOLITION. IF A DEMOLITION IS GONNA COME BEFORE O H P, IT ALWAYS HAS TO COME BEFORE H D R C BECAUSE WHEN THERE'S, WHEN THERE'S A SITUATION THAT ISN'T QUITE IN THE OPINION OF THE ADMIN FOR THAT, THAT THAT WOULD ALLOW A, A DEMOLITION OF SOMETHING, IT MEANS THAT THAT REALLY O HP'S DECISION TO NOT CONSIDER IS OVERRIDING THE POWERS OF THE H D R C, WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY CAN DO. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT, IT PUTS 'EM IN A SITUATION THAT IT SEEMS AKIN TO DOUBLE JEOPARDY. THAT, THAT THEY'RE NOT ONLY BEING GIVEN THE APPROVAL TO DO SOMETHING ON A DEMOLITION THAT WOULD COME BEFORE THE H D R C SHOULD O H P DECIDE THAT IT'S APPLICABLE TO THE H D R C. BUT IF THEY DECIDE IT'S NOT, THERE'S STILL THIS OTHER DOOR OVER HERE WHERE AN APPLICANT CAN COME IN AND DO THE SAME THING, WOULD IT BE MUCH EASIER, IT'D BE MUCH MORE JUSTIFIED IF ALL OF THESE CASES CAME BEFORE O H P AND WHICH CASE IT WOULD GIVE THE APPLICANT THE OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE A PLAN FOR REPLACEMENT. SO THAT THESE ARE NOT, THAT, THAT THE ONLY REASON THIS IS COMING BEFORE US TODAY IS BECAUSE THERE'S AN APPLICATION, UH, FROM AN APPLICANT, A, A THIRD PARTY APPLICANT COMING IN, IN, INTO US, WHEN IN REALITY THE PATHWAY FOR THIS TO COME TO US SHOULD HAVE BEEN THAT IF THEY'RE GONNA HAVE GENERAL JURISDICTION OVER ALL DEMOLITION, WELL, THE SIGNIFICANCE SHOULD COME BEFORE THE H HP, I MEAN, THE, THE H D R C TO BEGIN WITH. THERE, THERE'S SOMETHING VERY WRONG ABOUT THIS. AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT DOES EMPOWER THIS WEAPONIZATION OF, OF THIS RULE. UM, WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. AND IF WE NEED TO REVIEW THE PROCEDURE THROUGH THE, WITH O H P STAFF AND THE U D C REVISIONS, WE CAN, UH, OBVIOUSLY DO THAT. BUT IN TERMS OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE, UH, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR A MOTION, MR. CHAIRMAN? I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, IF I MAY. YES, PLEASE. UM, AND THIS IS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE DISCUSSION. I, I, I, UH, AGREED THAT THESE ARE DIFFICULT CASES AND I COMMEND THE OWNER, UH, FOR HAVING GONE IN AND, UH, CLEANED UP A PROBLEMATIC, UH, PIECE OF PROPERTY. AND, UH, I DON'T MEAN FOR THIS MOTION TO BE SEEN AS ANY KIND OF PUNITIVE MEASURE, AS HAS BEEN SUGGESTED. IT'S MORE AS A WAY OF CAUTIONING THE PROCESS TO SAY THERE MAY BE SOMETHING OF VALUE HERE. AND THERE ARE, UH, AVENUES OF APPEAL THAT THE OWNER CAN SEEK OUT IF, IF HE'S IN A DI IN DISAGREEMENT WITH THIS. BUT I MOVE FOR A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE, UH, BASED UPON CRITERIA 3, 5, 6, 8, AND 12. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE ALL FAIRLY BROADLY, UH, WORDED INTENTIONALLY. IN FACT, ALL 16 OF THEM ARE, BUT I THINK THESE ARE THE ONES THAT, UH, RELATE TO THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY MOST DIRECTLY. THANK YOU. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. I SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MR. CHAIR? I, I, I WANT TO SAY THAT IN, IN SPIRIT AND HEART, I AGREE [01:05:01] WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS FIRST AND THE SECOND, BUT I THINK THAT O H P HAS TO CARRY THE, THE OBLIGATION OF THIS SITUATION BECAUSE, UM, WHAT WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IS, AND, AND IT SHOULD BE A, A GENERAL RULE SENT OUT TO, UH, THE, THE, THE CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO, THE WAY THAT THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DOES SO ON A REGULAR BASIS, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW THAT IF THEY SUBMIT FOR A DEMOLITION THAT THIS IS, THAT, THAT THEY RISK THIS SITUATION BECAUSE PERHAPS A PERSON IS SUBMITTING FOR A DEMOLITION, THEY HAVE NO PLANS, AND THERE IS NO NEED TO TEAR THE BUILDING DOWN RIGHT NOW, IN REALITY, THE BUILDING COULD SIT THERE, BUT ONCE THEY TRIGGER THIS THING, FOR WHATEVER REASONS THIS OCCURS. AND IF YOU ADD THE, THE, THE POWERS THAT O H P IS, IS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, UH, THE, THE SPECTRUM OF UNCONTROLLED KIND KIND OF JURISDICTION, IT, IT, IT, IT JUST SEEMS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SETS US ALL UP. IT SETS THE OWNER UP, SETS THE CITY UP FOR SUITS, AND IT, THERE COULD BE A MUCH CLEANER, UH, PROCESS, UM, THAT, UM, OBVIOUSLY TAKES POWER AWAY FROM O H P, BUT IT KEEPS IT IN THE LAP OF THE H D R C. SO THERE'S NOTHING REALLY TO FEAR. I CAN'T SUPPORT THE MOTION. UM, 'CAUSE I THINK IT'S JUST DIVING AS DEEPER INTO THE SAME PROBLEM. AND ANY OTHER COMMENTS? WELL, UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, I JUST HAVE A, A COMMENT TO ADD TO THAT. I THINK, UM, THERE IS UNDOUBTEDLY SOME PROCESS ISSUES THAT I THINK NEED TO BE WORKED OUT HERE. THE, THE ORDER, THE SEQUENCE IN WHICH, UH, THESE CASES COME BEFORE US MAY NEED TO BE EXAMINED AND WE CAN WORK WITH OUR COLLEAGUES O H P STAFF TO PERHAPS SEE IF WE COULD FORMULATE A PROPOSAL FOR DOING THAT, THAT CAN THEN GO THROUGH THE OFFICIAL CHANNELS AND BE, BE, UH, INCLUDED IN, IN, IN OUR, UM, PURVIEW. UM, BUT GIVEN HOW THE PROCESS STANDS RIGHT NOW, THE ONUS IS REALLY ON THE APPLICANT TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT. AND, UM, I THINK I CONCUR WITH STAFF ON TWO OF THE POINTS THAT THE APPLICANT MADE, UH, THAT DID NOT SEEM TO HAVE STRONG RELEVANCE TO THIS PROPERTY, WHICH WAS, UH, THOSE THAT WERE RELATED TO THE OLD SPANISH TRAIL, UH, COMMENTS. UH, BUT THE OTHER TWO I THINK HAD, UH, A LOT OF VALIDITY, EVEN IF IT'S, UH, JUST BROTHERS OR UNCLES OF, OF THE SIGNIFICANT PERSON HE WAS IN, INVOLVED IN THE FAMILY BUSINESS TO SOME LEVEL. UM, AND I THINK THERE ARE OTHER CRITERIA THAT DID NOT GET INCLUDED BY EITHER THE APPLICANT OR DISCUSSED, UH, AT ANY LENGTH BY, BY O H P. SO I, I THINK IS, I TRY TO MAKE THE EVALUATION HERE USING MY EXPERTISE THAT I BRING TO THIS COMMISSION. I THINK THERE'S SOME, UH, VALUE, UH, TO RETAINING THIS, UH, FROM A CULTURAL HISTORICAL STANDPOINT. UM, AND I JUST ENCOURAGE, HOWEVER, THIS TURNS OUT THAT THE OWNER MIGHT RETHINK, PERHAPS THE RE REPLATING OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY COULD PARCEL THIS OUT AND THIS GETS, UH, UH, EITHER SOLD OFF OR DONATED OR SOMETHING ELSE, UH, SO THAT THIS, THIS BUILDING CAN BE, UH, REHABILITATED. 'CAUSE I DO THINK IT HAS VALUE WORTH AND, AND IT, UH, REPRESENTS A RETAINED CULTURAL MEMORY THERE ON THAT SITE THAT, UH, IT WOULD BE A LOSS TO OUR COMMUNITY IF WE, IF IT WAS TO GO AWAY. THANK YOU. UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? I GIBBS AYE. VELAZQUEZ NAY. AYE. CARPENTER AYE. RUB. AYE. ZER AYE. AND LA AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AND, UH, MR. JOHN STAFF WILL BE GETTING WITH YOU ABOUT THE NEXT STEPS IN THIS PROCESS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [17. 21-4900 Address/Description: 318 W MISTLETOE HDRC Case No.: 2021-289 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Precision Contracting Request: Fenestration modifications City Council Dist.: 1 ] ALRIGHT, UM, NEXT WE HAVE ITEM NUMBER 17 3 18 WEST MISSILE TOE. UH, RACHEL, I BELIEVE RACHEL IS, UH, READY WITH THE APPLICANT. UM, AND JUST FOR, UH, EVERYONE'S KNOWLEDGE, WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT WHEN THE COMMISSION IS READY. THANK YOU, EDWARD. AGENDA, ITEM NUMBER 17, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 2 89 ADDRESS, THREE 18 WEST MISSILE TOE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, RELOCATE THE EXISTING WINDOWS ON THE WEST ELEVATION TO THE EAST AND SOUTH ELEVATION. TWO. INSTALL TWO NEW WINDOW OPENINGS WITH VINYL WINDOWS ON THE WEST ELEVATION. ITEM ONE, STAFF [01:10:01] DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE WINDOW REMOVAL ON LOCATION. BASED ON FINDINGS, A THROUGH E STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE EXISTING WINDOWS AND WINDOW OPENINGS ARE RETAINED ANY NECESSARY WINDOW REPAIRS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. ITEM TWO, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE NEW WINDOW INSTALLATION BASED ON FINDING F IF THE H C R C IS COMPELLED TO APPROVE ITEMS ONE AND TWO, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS FULLY WOULD REPLACE WINDOWS THAT MEET STAFF STANDARD WINDOW STIPULATIONS. AS A CASE COMMENT, THIS REQUEST CAME BEFORE THE H D R C ON JULY 7TH AND WAS REFERRED TO A V R C MEETING SITE VISIT. UM, AND THAT WAS CONDUCTED. AND THEN FOLLOWING THE V R C SITE VISIT AND THE PUBLISHER PUBLISHING OF THE AGENDA, THE APPLICANT HAS MODIFIED THE REQUEST TO REMOVE THE REQUEST FOR ITEM NUMBER TWO AND ALSO TO, UM, REMOVE THE REQUEST TO, UH, REMOVE THE WINDOWS ON THE WEST ELEVATION, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SMALLER WINDOW TO THE REAR, UM, THAT WOULD BE MOVED TO THE REAR ELEVATION. AND THE APPLICANT, CODY MARSHALL'S ON THE LINE, AND YOU CAN SPEAK MORE TO THAT REQUEST. CODY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE COMMISSIONER? HI GUYS. THANK YOU AGAIN. UM, I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME LOOKING INTO THIS CASE FOR US. SO AFTER THE DESIGN REVIEW, UM, ON SITE, WE HAVE DECIDED TO REVISE OUR REQUEST. UM, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO COMPLETELY JUST, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ADD THE TWO SMALLER WINDOWS, UM, THAT WERE ORIGINALLY REQUESTED. THAT WAS ITEM NUMBER TWO. AND THEN ITEM NUMBER ONE, UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE THE WINDOW OPENINGS AS IS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE SMALLER WINDOW THAT WOULD BE MOVED TO THE SOUTHERN ELEVATION, BE REUSED AND WOULD ACTUALLY BRING THE STYLE OF THE REAR OF THE HOME A LITTLE BIT CLOSER AND CLOSE A LITTLE BIT BETTER, UM, ON THE WEST ELEVATION WHERE THE ONE THAT WE WANTED TO REMOVE WERE, WE WOULD LIKE TO, UM, KEEP THOSE SHUTTERS AND KEEP THOSE OPENING AS IS. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, MAY I HAVE A D R C REPORT FROM SOMEONE WHO ATTENDED AND THEN WE'LL GET PUBLIC COMMENTS? YES, MR. CHAIR. UM, ACTUALLY, CAN WE READ THE PUBLIC COMMENTS REAL QUICK BEFORE THAT? I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ THOSE NOW. UM, THE ONE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WE HAVE IS FROM, UH, PAUL KINISON JR. WHO'S CHAIR OF THE MONTE VISTA HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION'S ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. A COMMENT READS THE MONTE VISTA HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION'S ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE, CONCURS WITH THE CITY'S OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION STAFF FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION OF OUR OPINIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS. THANK YOU. SO COMMISSIONER GROUP. OKAY, SO YES, UM, WE HAD A VERY EXTENSIVE SITE VISIT AND, UM, RACHEL, JUST FEEL FREE TO INTERRUPT ME AT ANY TIME IF I'M SAYING SOMETHING WRONG, UM, TO THE APPLICANT. UH, ARE WE STILL ON THE SAME PAGE AS WHERE WE WERE IN THE MEETING? SO BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT MOST ALL THESE WINDOWS THAT YOU SEE ON THE PICTURE RIGHT HERE FROM THE INSIDE THAT WERE COMPLETELY, UM, CLOSING WITH SHEET ROCK PER PREVIOUS OWNER. SO WHEN THEY REMOVED THE SHEET ROCK, THEY REALIZED THAT THOSE WINDOWS WERE THERE. SOME OF THE ORIGINAL FRAMES OF THE WINDOWS, LIKE THE ACTUAL WINDOWS ARE STILL THERE. THE, HOW THE DESIGN IS ON THE INSIDE, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR THE APPLICANT TO, YEAH, AND THIS IS A VERY, UM, PREVIOUS, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE SOME D R C MEETING PICTURES, BUT NOW THERE'S PLUMBING, ELECTRICITY, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, WALLS GOING IN WHERE THOSE WINDOWS ARE, RIGHT THERE, EXAMPLE. SO THE WINDOWS HAVE BEEN REMOVED AND WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE APPLICANT WAS, I MEAN, FROM THE OUTSIDE, MY OPINION IS THAT THEY SHOULD REMAIN THE OPENING, ORIGINAL OPENING SHOULD REMAIN AS IS ON THE EXTERIOR WITH THE SHUTTERS CLOSED AS THEY WERE. I DON'T SEE ANY WINDOWS BEING REMOVED. AND I THINK THE APPLICANT, UH, AGREED TO THAT IS JUST FROM THE INSIDE. UM, BASED ON THE EXTENT OF THE WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE, IT'S GONNA BE HARD FOR THEM TO PUT BACK THE ACTUAL WINDOWS AND THEN SHEET ROCK. UM, SO WE HAVE ABOUT TWO OF THE BIGGER WINDOWS ON SIDE AND ONE SMALL WINDOW. WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO WAS ADD TO THE BACKSIDE WAS ADD A SMALL WINDOW. SO WE DID LOOK AT, UM, ADDING THE SMALL WINDOW THAT'S THAT THEY HAVE, THAT THEY REMOVED [01:15:01] FROM THE ONE SIDE RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE OTHER SMALL WINDOW. UM, BECAUSE THEY'RE ACTUALLY THE SAME SIZE. SO I I I KIND OF, THAT'S KIND OF PART OF THE STAFF, UH, STIPULATION IS THAT THAT WINDOW, IT, IT MEETS ALL THE RIGHT. SO THEY'RE GONNA USE THAT WINDOW? NO, THAT WINDOW STAYS, RACHEL, THAT WINDOW IS GONNA STAY AND IT'S JUST GONNA BE SHEET ROCK. SO FROM THE EXTERIOR THEN WE HAVE ONE SMALL WINDOW RIGHT NEXT TO THAT THAT IS GONNA BE USED, AND THEN THEY'RE GONNA ADD ONE MORE THE SAME THAT WAS REMOVED FROM FURTHER DOWN THE HALL. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? SO THE ONLY CHANGE THAT I AM, WELL, I WOULD LIKE FOR THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER IS, UM, APPROVING THIS, THIS ADD THIS WINDOW. OKAY. SO IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A NEW WINDOW. IT'S FROM ONE OF THE WINDOWS. AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOME, THEY'RE NOT GONNA PUT THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS. THEY'RE NOT DOING ANY THERE, RIGHT THERE. THIS IS GONNA STAY AS IS. IT IS VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. UM, BUT I'M NOT ASKING THE APPLICANT TO PUT, PUT BACK THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS IN THE, I MEAN, IN THE FRAMES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THEY'RE JUST GONNA BE KEPT ON PROPERTY. UM, ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR OF THE HOME, THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, NEWER WINDOWS AS WELL, UH, FROM A PREVIOUS OWNER, PREVIOUS PROJECTS. UM, SO BASICALLY IT JUST, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE WINDOW ON THE BACKSIDE. AM I CORRECT, RACHEL? THAT'S CORRECT. RACHEL, CORRECT. THAT'S WHAT WAS DISCUSSED AT THE SITE. OKAY. AND I THINK THE APPLICANT IS AGREEING TO THAT. YES, WE AGREE WITH IT. SO INSTEAD OF THE APPLICANT COMING BACK WITH A NEW APPLICATION AND CHANGING EVERYTHING AND STAFF HAD TO CHANGE THE RECOMMENDATION, THIS IS WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT. AND THAT'S, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF I, I WOULD BE READY TO DO A MOTION. I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UH, THE SMALL WINDOW THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO REMOVE FROM THE, UH, WAS IT THE WEST SIDE AND MOVE IT TO THE REAR, IS THAT AN OPERABLE WINDOW OR IS IT A FIXED GLASS WINDOW? IT'S AN OPERABLE WINDOW. UM, WELL, NO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE LIKE THESE, THEY'RE ALL FIXED. IT'S THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY, CAN YOU SHOW ME THE ONE ON THE BACKSIDE? SORRY, THEY'RE FIXED WINDOWS, BUT THEY'RE, UM, THAT'S HOW THEY ARE. THEY, THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL WINDOW. OKAY. RIGHT. I THINK THEY'RE STASH. YEAH, EXACTLY. UM, IT'S NOT GONNA BE REMOVED. SO WE'RE, WE'RE KEEPING THE SHUTTERS AS OF FROM THE EXTERIORS. IT'S JUST GONNA BE THE INTERIOR WINDOW. IT IS GONNA BE USED, IT'S ALREADY BEEN REMOVED. SO ALL FOUR FRAMES AND SHUTTERS WILL REMAIN ON THAT WEST SIDE. CORRECT. CAN WE GET A PICTURE OF THE WEST SIDE AS IT CURRENTLY IS FROM THE D R C? WELL, YOU CAN SEE IT RIGHT HERE. ACTUALLY, ONE OF THEM JUST HAD A PIECE OF PLYWOOD. THE APPLICANT WAS, UM, AGREEING TO PUT BACK THE SHOULDERS. SO THIS ELEVATION WILL REMAIN AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS, FOUR FRAMES WITH FOUR SHUTTERS, AND THEN PROPOSING TO ADD A FIXED WINDOW ON THE REAR FACADE THAT IS COMING OUT OF THAT FAR RIGHT, UH, FRAME. IT'S THE NUMBER THREE WINDOW FROM THE LEFT WHERE THE PLYWOOD IS RIGHT NOW. OH, OKAY. P THE ONE THAT'S ON THE FAR RIGHT IS THERE, AND THEY MAY KEEP IT OPEN OR NOT. UH, FROM THE INSIDE IT'S, IT HASN'T BEEN SHEEP BROUGHT YET, BUT IT WILL STAY AS IS MAYBE SHEEP BROUGHT FROM THE INSIDE, BUT IT IS THERE AND IT WILL STAY IN THE WALL. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, JUST ONE QUESTION. DID Y'ALL DISCUSS THAT PHOTO THAT SHOWED ALL THE PLUMBING IN FRONT OF THE ONE WINDOW OR IN FRONT OF THE PAIR OF SHUTTERS THAT HAD BEEN WITH THE WINDOW SASH REMOVED? WAS THERE A DISCUSSION AND REALLY THIS WOULD BE UP TO THE OWNER AND THEIR, UH, CONTRACTOR HOW THEY, UH, WEATHERPROOF THAT WALL? YEAH, WE DID GO BACK AND FORTH ON THAT. UM, THE CONTRACTOR WAS ALSO THERE, SO THE CONTRACTOR STATED THAT HE WAS GONNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT WAS GONNA [01:20:01] BE HAPPENING. OKAY. UM, MAKING SURE, WITHOUT REMOVING ANY OF THE ORIGINAL FRAMING THAT IS THERE YOU, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, THE DARK WOOD. RIGHT. THAT'S REALLY WHAT I ASKED HIM WAS YOU TO NOT REMOVE ANY OF THOSE DETAILS SO THAT IF SOMEONE LATER ON WANTS TO TAKE THOSE ORIGINAL WINDOWS ON SITE AND PUT THEM ON THAT, THE FRAME WILL BE THERE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARVER. I JUST WANNA THANK COMMISSIONER GU FOR LEADING US THROUGH THAT AND FOR HAVING MASTERY OVER ALL THE DETAILS OF THIS. UM, IT WAS REALLY HELPFUL TO HEAR THAT. I, I WOULD JUST ASK THAT IN THE MOTION. I HOPE SHE'S GONNA CRAFT, UM, THAT WE KIND OF PUT SOME KIND OF CONDITIONS ON THE WINDOWS THAT ARE BEING STORED. THEY BE STORED, YOU KNOW, IN A, IN A, AN APPROPRIATE PLACE WHERE THEY'RE JUST NOT ROTTY INTERIOR DETERIORATING WAY AND MAYBE THAT THEY'RE LABELED SOME WAY SO THAT SOME FUTURE OWNER MIGHT COME ACROSS THEM AND GO, HEY, I WANNA REVERSE THESE CHANGES. AND THEY KNOW WHERE THOSE WENT. THANK YOU. YES. UH, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I THINK THAT IS WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT D R C MEETINGS SOMETIMES FOR THESE WINDOWS IN QUESTION, BECAUSE IF I HAVE NOT SEEN IT FROM THE INSIDE AND HOW FAR THE CONSTRUCTION HAS, YOU KNOW, COME ABOUT, BUT ALSO MEETING WITH THE CONTRACTOR AND THE ARCHITECT AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING THE NEEDS, I THINK THAT HELPS A LOT. , I THINK WE SAVED A LOT OF TIME. UM, SO, UH, THE ONLY TWO WINDOWS THAT I WOULD SAY ARE GONNA BE SAVED ON PROPERTY ARE THE TWO ONE OH OH ONES THAT HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM, WAS IT WESTERN WALL? I AM NOT SUGGESTING FOR THEM TO KEEP THESE. UM, WHAT YOU CAN SEE RIGHT NOW IS, ARE THE WINDOWS THAT ARE GONNA BE REMOVED WHERE THE NEW LITTLE, UH, FIXED WINDOW WILL BE? 'CAUSE THOSE ARE NOT ORIGINAL, WHICH IS ALUMINUM. SO, UH, WE AGREE WITH THAT. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, WOULD THAT BE OKAY? YEAH. AND THEN THEY'RE, UM, GONNA COME BACK WITH THE, THE SHINGLE SIDING TO FILL IN THE REST OF THE AREA AROUND THE, THE RELOCATED OF THE WINDOW. ACTUALLY, THE CONTRACTOR SAID THAT HE WAS EVEN GONNA MAKE IT BETTER AND TRY TO MAKE MATCH OF THAT PREPARE, OR I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAD BEEN DONE ALREADY, THAT HE WAS GONNA IMPROVE THAT AS WELL. GOOD. THANK YOU. UM, I FEEL, I, I MEAN, I THINK THE MOTION, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY THAT THE MOTION CAN BE TO APPROVE AS, UH, AGREED ON, UH, PER D R C MEETING BECAUSE THE, THE REQUEST HAS KIND OF CHANGED. CAN STAFF RELATED TO THAT, I BELIEVE HOPEFULLY, UH, WITH WHAT THE REPORT WAS FROM COMMISSIONER GRU. AND AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR MEETING WITH THEM ON SITE AS WELL AS THE CONCURRENCE BY THE PROPERTY OWNER AND APPLICANT. UH, HOPEFULLY THAT CAN SUFFICE FOR THIS APPLICATION AND PROCEED WITH THE MOTION THAT WE, ALL RIGHT, EDWARD, THIS IS ANO, CAN YOU ALL HEAR ME? YES, MA'AM. UM, IT'S EITHER, UH, PROOF OF STAFF STIPULATIONS, UH, SUBMITTED OR, UM, APPROVED AND THEN YOU PROVIDE THE STIPULATIONS YOU WANT TO BE INCLUDED. OKAY. THE ONLY THING IS THAT THE REQUEST HAS KIND OF CHANGED FROM THE APPLICANTS SIDE, RIGHT. AND IN THAT CASE, IT WOULD BE A DENIAL OF WHAT'S POSTED AND THE APPLICANT CAN THEN COME FORWARD TO STAFF WITH AN ALTERNATIVE PROPOSAL FOR LIKELY ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. OR YOU CAN CONTINUE THE SUGGESTION, NOT NOT THE ENTIRE SCOPE, BUT, BUT BASED ON THE DISCUSSION SO FAR. OKAY. SO I AM GONNA DO TWO. OKAY. MOTION WILL BE, UM, FIRST TO DENY ITEM TWO AND THEN TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER ONE WITH STAFF STIPULATION THAT ONLY ONE WINDOW BE RELOCATED FROM THE WEST ELEVATION TO THE SOUTH REAR ELEVATION AS PRESENTED BY THE CLIENT AND AGREED ON AT THE D R C VISIT. UM, AND, AND THAT ALSO, UM, INCLUDES THE RE REMOVAL [01:25:01] OF THE EXISTING WINDOW, WHERE THAT ONE WINDOW WILL BE GO. AND, UM, I WOULD ADD TO THAT, THAT THE APPLICANT, UH, WORK WITH STAFF TO FIND AN APPROPRIATE SOLUTION TO HOW THOSE WINDOWS WILL BE STORED. PREFERABLY, UH, I MEAN ON PROPERTY AND PREFERABLY, AND SOMEWHERE, UH, SAFE FROM HUMIDITY AND WOOD ROT OR RAIN EXTERIOR, YOU KNOW, ELEMENTS AND INCLUDE STAFF STIPULATION I, WHICH ARE THE WINDOW STIPULATIONS CHAIR. BUT I, I SECOND THAT MOTION. I THINK THAT'S IT. I THINK WAS THAT GOOD? I REALLY DIDN'T WANT THE APPLICANT TO HAVE TO COME BACK IN A MONTH, SO THIS WAS JUST A WAY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO, FOR THE APPLICANT TO BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT. SO A QUESTION FOR STAFF, IS THE MOTION AND SECOND CLEAR ENOUGH? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FERN GIBBS? AYE. QUEZ? AYE. AYE. CARPENTER? CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. ZER AYE. AND LA AYE. OCEAN CARRIES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. [18. 21-4848 Address/Description: 1115 WYOMING ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-314 Applicant: OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION Request: Finding of historic significance City Council Dist.: 2 ] THANK YOU. UH, UP NEXT IS ITEM NUMBER 18, 11 15 WYOMING. UM, I WILL NOTE NOW THAT WE HAVE, UH, THREE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT I WILL READ, TWO LIVE CALLS AND ONE VOICEMAIL. UH, SO EIGHT VOICEMAILS, EXCUSE ME, EIGHT VOICEMAILS. UH, SO, UH, COMMISSIONER OR CHAIRMAN, FETZER, WHEN THE TIME COMES, PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHICH ORDER YOU WOULD LIKE THOSE IN. UM, AND WE WILL START WORKING THROUGH THOSE. THANK YOU. I GUESS THE APPLICANT IS THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. YES, SIR. JUST, ARE YOU THERE? I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? WE CAN, WE CAN GO AHEAD. OKAY, GOOD. SORRY, I FORGOT ABOUT STAR SIX. UM, ITEM 18 ON THE AGENDA, H C R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 3 1 4 11 15 WYOMING STREET, OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS REQUESTING A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1115 WYOMING STREET. SORRY, THIS ONE'S LONGER THAN USUAL. SCROLLING STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE AND DIRECTION TO PROCESS REQUEST ON BEHALF OF THE H G R C, THE CITY COUNCIL TO CONSIDER A RESOLUTION TO INITIATE DESIGNATION OF 1115 WYOMING STREET BASED ON FINDING A THROUGH G. AND I HAVE, UM, THE OWNERS ON THE LINE AS WELL. UM, DID YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM THEM FIRST OR GO TO COMMA? UH, BEFORE WE GO TO THE OWNERS, IF YOU WOULD, UH, EXPAND ON THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, BASICALLY THE CRITERIA THAT Y'ALL ARE BASING THAT RECOMMENDATION ON. SURE, I CAN DO THAT. UM, SO IN THE COURSE OF RESEARCH, UH, STAFF FOUND THAT THE PROPERTY MEETS FOUR CRITERIA UNDER U D C SECTION 35 6 0 7 B, CRITERION ONE, UM, UH, AS A VALUE OR ITS VALUE AS A VISIBLE OR ARCHEOLOGICAL REMINDER OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF THE COMMUNITY OR A NATIONAL EVENT. UM, THE HOUSE WAS LOCATED IN A HISTORICALLY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD AND WAS BUILT FOR A BLACK FAMILY WHO LIVED THERE FOR THE FIRST 50 YEARS OF, UH, THE LIFE OF THE HOUSE. WE FOUND IT ELIGIBLE UNDER CRITERION THREE FOR ITS IDENTIFICATION WITH A PERSON OR PERSON WHO SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY, COUNTRY, STATE, OR NATION. THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT FOR JOHN A AND ELLA GRUMBLE. JOHN WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREATION OF THE SAN ANTONIO BRANCH OF THE NAACP AND HIS WIFE ELLA WAS ALSO ACTIVE IN LOCAL POLITICS. UM, CRITERION FIVE, THE, UH, ITS EMBODIMENT OF DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS OF AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE. THE HOUSE IS AN EXAMPLE OF A QUEEN AND RESIDENCE. UM, IT RETAINS A HISTORIC FOOTPRINT AND CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES SUCH AS WOOD WINDOWS. THE STEEPLY HIT ROOF WITH CROSS [01:30:01] GABLES, UM, ORNAMENTATION IN THE GABLE AND LENTIL WOOD LAP SIDING AND TURNED WOOD COLUMNS. UM, I SHOULD NOTE TOO, THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS, UH, BUILT IN 1898. NO, IT WASN'T. IT SAYS 1920. IF YOU CAN HOLD AND LET ME, UH, FINISH, UH, READING THIS INTO THE RECORD. UM, UNDER CRITERION 13, IT BEARS AN IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER DISTINCTIVE STRUCTURES, SITES, OR AREAS, EITHER AS AN IMPORTANT COLLECTION OF PROPERTIES OR ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OR CRAFTSMANSHIP WITH FEW INTRUSIONS BY CONTRIBUTING TO THE OVERALL CHARACTER OF THE AREA. ACCORDING TO THE PLAN, BASED ON ARCHITECTURAL, HISTORIC AND CULTURAL MOTIF, THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT STAFF FINDS TO BE AN ELIGIBLE LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE DENVER HEIGHTS NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU. AND NOW, IF WE COULD GET THE PROPERTY OWNERS TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AND, UM, MAKE YOUR STATEMENT, PLEASE. THIS IS JOANNE NEWS. I WANNA TAKE EACH ONE OF THESE FIRST. UM, NUMBER ONE SAYS THAT THEY LIVED THERE FOR THE FIRST 50 YEARS OF THE LIFE OF THE HOUSE. THEY, THE HOUSE HAS A DATE ON BEXAR COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT OF BEING BUILT IN 1920, AND THEY, UH, MR. GRUMBLES DIED IN 1922, AND MS. ELLA LEFT IN 1948. SO THAT ONE IS DISCOUNTED UNLESS YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT THE LAND RECORDS ARE INCORRECT. THE SECOND ONE IS IDENTIFICATION WITH A PERSON WHO SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY. I, I CANNOT ARGUE WITH MR. GRUMBLES. I CANNOT ARGUE WITH MISS MRS. GRUMBLES FIVE, THE DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTIC. IT DOES HAVE A HIP ROOF. UH, I'M NOT SURE WHAT CROSS GABLES ARE, BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE THE WORK. WOOD. UH, THE POSTS THAT COME WITH A, UH, QUEENAN AND THE, THE THINGS THAT THEY SAID WERE, UM, HISTORIC ON THE SIDE. YOU COULD BUY AT HOME DEPOT TODAY. 13. IT SAYS IT BEARS AN IMPORTANT SIGNIFICANT RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER STRUCTURES. RIGHT NEXT DOOR IS A MODERN STRUCTURE, UH, BRICK HOUSE, MODERN BRICK HOUSE, ONE STORY. AND THAT IS OWNED BY MS. CONNIE AND HER HUSBAND. AND MS. CONNIE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH THAT, THE HOUSE BEING BROUGHT DOWN, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT IS A DANGER. I WAS, I TOLD THE COMMISSION MULTIPLE TIMES NOT TO GO IN. WE HAD MAILED THE DOOR SHUT, SO SOME, YOU ALL FORCED YOUR WAY IN, WHICH IS TRESPASSING. UH, ANYTHING ELSE? MS. UM, NEWS? NOT RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU. UH, WE'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT NOW. PERFECT. UH, CHAIRMAN, WE'LL START OFF WITH THE, UH, COMMENTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED IN WRITING. THEN WE'LL GO TO OUR LIVE CALLS AND THEN WE'LL PLAY OUR VOICEMAILS. LAST, UH, THE FIRST SUBMITTED COMMENT COMES FROM KATHY RHODES OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. A COMMENT READS, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONCURS WITH THE O H P STAFF FINDINGS THAT THE HOUSE AT 1115 WYOMING MEETS FOUR OF THE CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION. THE QUEEN AND HOME WAS BUILT IN 1898 FOR JOHN GRUMBLES, ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE SAN ANTONIO BRANCH OF THE NAACP IN 1918. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY HAS WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE SAN ANTONIO BRANCH OF THE NAACP IN RECENT YEARS, AND ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORTS THE DESIGNATION AND PRESERVATION OF THIS IMPORTANT PROPERTY. THAT CONCLUDES THAT COMMENT. THE SECOND, UH, COMMENT IS FROM CLAUDIA L WALKER. THIS COMMENT READS, MY NAME IS CLAUDIA L WALKER. I RESIDE AT 1 41 OONA DRIVE IN CILLO, TEXAS 7 8 1 0 8. I'M SENDING THIS CORRESPONDENCE IN REFERENCE TO THE PROPERTY BEING CONSIDERED FOR DEMOLITION AS A BLACK FEMALE RETIRED DISABLED VETERAN. WITH 20 YEARS OF SERVICE IN THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE, AND NOW AN EDUCATOR, I BELIEVE IN SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY. MR. GRUMBLE SERVED NOT ONLY HIS COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO THE NATION DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY THROUGH HIS ACTIVITY AND SERVICE TO THE NAACP. IN A TIME WHERE ETHNICITY AND CULTURAL AWARENESS SHOULD NOT SHOULD BE, AT ITS PEAK IN OUR COUNTRY, WE FIND OURSELF AT A CROSSROADS. WITH NO DISRESPECT TO THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER, I BELIEVE IT IS SHAMEFUL TO WANT TO TEAR DOWN A BUILDING THAT ONCE BELONGED TO AN ICON TO THE COMMUNITY. THIS IS A TIME, THIS IS A TIME TO HOLD TRUE AND CLOSE TO OUR HEARTS, THE TRIUMPHS AND LOSSES OF OUR PAST. I'M NOT A [01:35:01] TEXAS NATIVE, BUT TEXAS HAS BEEN MY HOME FOR 24 YEARS NOW. I'M PROUD TO SAY I LIVE IN TEXAS. THERE'S SO MUCH RICH BLACK HISTORY HERE IN PRESERVING THE HOME OF MR. GRUMBLE SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN QUESTIONED. IT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE PROTECTED AND MADE AS AN EDUCATIONAL PIECE TO CONTINUE TO EDUCATE AND ENLIGHTEN OTHERS WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE RICH BLACK HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. TO BE VERY CLEAR, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CRITICAL RACE THEORY, BUT EVERYTHING TO DO WITH EDUCATING AND ENLIGHTENING EVERYONE ABOUT THE GREATNESS THAT COMES FROM SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. THIS CONCLUDES THE SECOND WRITTEN COMMENT. THE THIRD WRITTEN COMMENT COMES FROM LINDSEY PASSENGER WEEK. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M A PUBLIC HISTORIAN WHO TEACHES STUDENTS TO PRESERVE AND SHARE SAN ANTONIO HISTORY. 1115 WYOMING IS A SITE VALUABLE TO THE HISTORY OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY IN SAN ANTONIO BECAUSE IT HOUSED JOHNNY GRUMBLES THE CREATOR OF ONE OF THE LARGEST NAAC NAACP BRANCHES IN THE COUNTRY. PRESERVING AND PROTECTING THE SITE IS IMPORTANT TO OUR CITY'S HISTORY AND TO THE CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT HISTORICAL NARRATIVES ABOUT OUR BLACK COMMUNITY. UH, THIS CONCLUDES OUR WRITTEN OR SUBMITTED COMMENTS. AS I MENTIONED, WE HAD TWO LIVE CALLS. WE HAVE EIGHT VOICEMAILS. WE'LL NOW MOVE TO LIVE CALLS. UM, I'M NOT ACTUALLY SURE WHO HAS THE FIRST CALLER ON, BUT ARE WE READY FOR THE FIRST CALLER? YES. LET'S START WITH CLAUDIA. CLAUDIA, CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND UMSPEAKING IN YOUR COMMENTS? HI EVERYONE. MY NAME IS CLAUDIA ESPINOZA. I AM THE COMMUNITY CURATION DIRECTOR OVER AT THE SAN ANTONIO AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY ARCHIVE C MUSEUM. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME TODAY. I AM SO EXCITED TO TALK ABOUT THIS, UH, TODAY. UM, HELLO EVERYONE. SO I, UH, THINK THAT THIS IS SUCH A HISTORIC HOME THAT WE SHOULD STAY AND PROTECT, UM, NOT ONLY FOR OURSELVES, FOR THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY, BUT OUR BLACK AND BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO ARE CONTINUOUSLY ERASED AND OMITTED FROM HISTORY, ESPECIALLY SAN ANTONIO HISTORY. AND HAVING A SON MARK TO TEACH THE COMMUNITY AND THE YOUTH ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF THE AMERICAN LEGACY IN SAN ANTONIO IS SO IMPERATIVE TO OUR GROWING. AND I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND ALSO ON BEHALF OF REVEREND JAMES P AMERSON, THE SENIOR PASTOR ST. PAUL UNITED METHODIST CHURCH IN SAN ANTONIO. HE WROTE TO ME REGARDING THIS, UM, GRUMBLES HOME. AND HE WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO PRESERVE THIS LANDMARK. SO THE, SO MANY OF THE PHYSICAL LOCATIONS OF SIGNIFICANCE OF THE BLACK SAN ANTONIO HISTORY HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED. ANYONE CAN ATTEST TO DEMISE CULTURE WHEN POSITIVE ESTABLISHMENTS ARE RAISED FROM THE COMMUNITY. AS A PASTOR OF ITS OLD AFRICAN-AMERICAN CONGREGATION ORGANIZES SAN ANTONIO. PLEASE HEAR MY, MY CALL TO STOP THIS DEMOLITION AND HELP TO PRESERVE THE IMPORTANT CIVIL RIGHTS LEGACY OF THIS DIVERSE CITY. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND I BELIEVE RACHEL IS READY NOW WITH OUR NEXT LIVE CALLER. YES, I HAVE DR. THERESA VAN HOY ON THE LINE. DR. HOY, YOU'RE WELCOME TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. I AM DR. TERESA VAN HOY, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT ST. MARY'S UNIVERSITY, AND I'M HERE TO SUPPORT THE CASE FOR HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE OF 1115 WYOMING. THIS BUILDING IS ASSOCIATED WITH MAJOR HISTORIC FIGURES IN SAN ANTONIO. IN 1918, JOHN A GRUMBLE FOUNDED THE SAN ANTONIO CHAPTER OF THE NA. THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT THAT ONLY THREE YEARS AGO IN 2018, THE NATIONAL NAACP HELD A MANUAL CONVENTION HERE IN SAN ANTONIO TO COMMEMORATE THE CENTENNIAL. SO I CAN'T IMAGINE US CALLING THEM UP AND SAYING, WELL, ACTUALLY, WE DEMOLISHED THE HOME OF JOHN GRUMBLE. SO WHAT, WHAT COURAGE WERE THEY CELEBRATING? LET ME, FOR, FOR MY REMAINING REMARK, I DRAW ON THE RESEARCH OF TWO OF MY STUDENTS, EDDIE UA AND BIANCA HAKE. AND WHAT COURAGE DID IT TAKE TO FOUND THE NAACP CHAPTER IN 1918 IN THE SOUTH? THE NOTORIOUSLY RACIST FILM, BIRTH OF A NATION HAD JUST WON A NATIONAL FOLLOWING. THREE YEARS BEFORE THAT FILM DEMONIZED BLACKS AND LIONIZED THE K K K LYNN KING SURGED ACROSS THE SOUTH, INCLUDING IN TEXAS AS WHITE SUPREMACISTS BEGRUDGED, THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY, UH, OF THE LOST CALL. SO THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY WAS IN 1915, AND, UM, THE LOSS WAS IN 1865. JOHN A GRUMBLES DID NOT CAVE IN. HE DID NOT LAY LOW, EVEN THOUGH HE HAD A WIFE AND TWO DAUGHTERS. HE FOUNDED THE LOCAL NAACP CHAPTER, BUT HE OUTWITTED WOULDBE VENTURES BY MOBILIZING OVER 500 OTHERS OF 503 OTHER PEOPLE TO COMMIT AS [01:40:01] CO-FOUNDERS GRUMBLE MADE SURE THE K K HAS NO SHORT LIST OF LEADERS TO TARGET WHO ELSE LIVED IN THAT HOUSE? ELLA, JOHN'S WIFE. HE MAY HAVE INFLUENCED THE FOCUS OF THE SAN ANTONIO CHAPTER ON BLACK WOMEN'S JOB OPPORTUNITY. THAT SPEAKS TO THE FIRST, UM, EMAIL OF, UH, STATEMENTS, UH, THAT WAS READ IN SUPPORT. ELEANOR, HIS DAUGHTER. SHE WAS SECRETARY FOR THE COMMUNITY CIRCLE SEWING CLUB AT STITCH GARMENTS FOR POOR PEOPLE. AGAIN, THAT'S EDDIE'S RESEARCH. AND 22 YEARS LATER ON YOUR 19TH. YES. EXCUSE ME, DOCTOR, COULD YOU WRAP, WRAP THIS UP? YOU'VE HAD YOUR TWO MINUTES. OH, YEAH. OKAY. I, I WANTED JUST SAY THAT, UM, IN, IN THE 1940 CENSUS, HIS GRANDKIDS WERE STILL IN THAT HOUSE WITH HIS WIDOW. AND I'LL CONCLUDE BY CLAUDIA'S STATEMENT, CLAUDIA SANCHEZ. UH, JOHN GRUMBLES HOME TODAY IS A SYMBOL OF, OF BRAVERY, STRENGTH, AND COOPERATION THAT CHAMPIONS AND INSPIRES ALL STUDENTS TODAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THAT CONCLUDES OUR, UH, LIVE CALLERS. UH, AND NOW WE HAVE EIGHT VOICEMAILS. UH, WE WILL NOW BEGIN TO PLAY THOSE VOICEMAILS LIKE A DELAY UNTIL FURTHER STUDY IS DONE ON THE, UH, CASE AT 1115 WYOMING, UH, WHICH WOULD INVOLVE JOHN GRUMBLES, UH, HISTORIC FIGURE. ONE OF THE FOUNDERS OF THE NAACP WAS PRESIDENT OF THE NAACP. AND I DON'T, UH, THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PROCEED, UH, WITH ANYTHING UNTIL WE HAVE TIME TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THIS. I'VE DONE SEVERAL MARKERS, AND I'M A PRE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT SAN ANTONIO. AND HOPE WE, THIS CAN BE DELAYED. THAT, UH, PARTICULAR SITE IS HISTORIC. UM, JOHN GRUMBLES HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THE, UH, HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO, PARTICULARLY THE AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY. SO I WOULD MOVE THAT THE, THAT YOU DENY THE REQUEST. I BELIEVE THE REQUEST IS TO DEMOLISH IT. UM, AND SO I WOULD MOVE TO DENY THAT UNTIL FURTHER STUDY IS DONE ON, ON THAT PARTICULAR THING. I, I'LL, I'LL BE GLAD TO, TO PROVIDE SOME OF THAT AS WELL AS OTHERS. SO WE ASK THAT YOU PLEASE, UH, HOLD OFF, POSTPONE OR DENY THIS, UH, UH, REQUEST TO DEMOLISH. I APPRECIATE IT. MARIO SALAS, 1 0 9 0 2 ALBION PARK DRIVE. THANK YOU SO MUCH. MY NAME IS TY HINTON. I LIVE AT 5 0 9 BURLESON STREET IN SAN ANTONIO, AND I'M CALLING CONCERNING ITEM 2 0 2 1 DASH 3 1 4. ANY CONCERNS? MR. GRUMBLES? HOME AT 1115 WYOMING. UH, I'M, UH, AN 81 YEAR OLD EASTSIDE SAN ANTONIO. UM, I WAS, I WAS BORN ON THE CORNER OF OLIVE AND CENTER STREET HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM WHAT IS NOW THE CARVER, THE COLORED CARVER COMMUNITY CENTER. AND WHEN, WHEN, WHEN MY PARENTS WERE CHILDREN, MR. GRUMBLES AND, AND OTHERS, UM, THEY INITIATED, UM, THE, THE BEGINNING OF, OF, OF BLACK PEOPLE COLORED PEOPLE, AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE IN, IN SAN ANTONIO, CARING ABOUT OUR HISTORY AND ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE US IN SAN ANTONIO A PLACE THAT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM OTHER CITIES IN THE, IN THE UNITED STATES. UM, THANK GOD FOR MR. GRUMBLE AND DR. WALTON AND, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND THE OTHER PEOPLE. UM, I, I AM SO TIRED OF PEOPLE COMING INTO OUR CLOSE TO DOWNTOWN COMMUNITY AND DECIDING THEY'RE GOING TO OBLITERATE OUR HISTORY AND, AND DECIDE TO REIMPOSE SOMETHING THERE BECAUSE IT'S CLOSE TO WHAT THEY WANNA BE. WE WERE HERE, WE ARE IMPORTANT. WE ARE SIGNIFICANT IN THE REASON WHY SAN ANTONIO HAS DEVELOPED THE WAY THAT IT HAS. AND OF COURSE, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS, THE MORE WORK BUILDING, HAY STREET BRIDGE, ALL OF THESE THINGS IN MY COMMUNITY. AND I REALIZED THEY'RE ERASING MY HISTORY AND GOING TO REIMPOSE SOMETHING ELSE ON IT, WHICH IS WHY WE'VE GOTTA DEAL WITH THE ALAMO EVEN SO THAT THEY'RE NOT CONTINUING TO IZE THAT IT WAS. HELLO, THIS IS DOROTHY LEE COLLINS, 1217 DELAWARE STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 10. I'M CALLING TO ASK YOU TO [01:45:01] PLEASE DON'T DEMOLISH THE HOUSE ON AT 1115 WYOMING STREET. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD MORNING. I AM BRIA CAMPO, STUDENT OF AMERICAN UNIVERSITY, AND I'M STUDYING THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO. I BEG THE CITY TO PRESERVE THE HOME OF JOHN A GRUMBLES. I ASKED THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION TO PRESERVE HIS HOUSE. THANK YOU SO MUCH AND HAVE A NICE DAY. DEBORAH OMO, JARMAN, C E O, DIRECTOR OF SAN ANTONIO, AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY ARCH ARCHIVE AND MUSEUM. OUR ADDRESS IS 3 7 3 7 BROADWAY, SUITE 300, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 0 9. I'M CALLING ABOUT PUBLIC HEARING FILE NUMBER 2 1 4 8 4 8. THE H D R C CASE NUMBER IS 2 0 2 1 DASH 3 1 4. SAN ANTONIO DOES A GREAT JOB OF KEEPING OLD BUILDINGS AND PUTTING THEM TO NEW USE. LOOK AT THE MUNICIPAL AUDITORIUM, TOBIN CENTER, LONE STAR BREWERY, SAN ANTONIO MUSEUM OF ART, THE BUILDING AT 1115 WYOMING STREET HAS A SIGNIFICANT HISTORICAL, UM, DESIGNATION FOR THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. IT IS THE HOME OF THE N A A C P, UM, FOUNDER JOHN GRUMBLES. I AM REQUESTING THAT THAT PROPERTY BE SAVED IF YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION OR, UH, WHY I THINK THE H D R C HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF OUTLINING THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, AND I CONCUR WITH THEIR RECOMMENDATION THAT IT IS HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT. THANK YOU. 21ST OF JULY AT 10:28 AM MY NAME IS EVERETT FLY, 1 2 2 NORTHGATE DRIVE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 8. I'M A PROFESSIONAL ARCHITECT AND LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, AND I'M CALLING REGARDING THE H D R C CASE AT 1 1 5 WYOMING. THIS WAS THE RESIDENCE OF MR. JOHN GRUMBLES, UH, WHO IS ONE OF THE LEADING AFRICAN-AMERICAN, UM, CIVIL RIGHTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATES IN THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS. FOR ABOUT 19 LOCAL NAACP FOUNDER, UH, MR. GRUMBLES WAS INVOLVED IN, UH, VARIOUS, UH, CIVIC, UM, INITIATIVES TO ASSIST AFRICAN AMERICANS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SECURING OF THE COLORED LIBRARY, UH, WHICH BECAME THE CARVER LIBRARY, AND ASSISTING A NUMBER OF AFRICAN AMERICAN RESIDENTS, UM, IN ACQUIRING PROPERTY ON THE EAST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO. I STRONGLY URGE YOU NOT TO APPROVE DEMOLITION FOR THIS, UH, LANDMARK STRUCTURE. THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW STRUCTURES THAT WE KNOW OF IN SAN ANTONIO THAT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO, UH, ONE OF OUR EARLY AFRICAN-AMERICAN, UH, CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIC LEADERS. AGAIN, I URGE YOU NOT TO DEMOLISH THE STRUCTURE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE. MARIA GREEN, 3 0 1 HARDING PLACE, ITEM NUMBER 2 0 2 1 3 1 4 11 15 WYOMING STREET, GALVANIZED BY THE 1917 LYNCHING OF BLACK SOLDIERS AT SERATO CREEK AND OTHER LOCAL RACIAL DISCRIMINATION. MR. JOHN GRUMBLE ASSEMBLED A GROUP OF CONCERNED BLACK CITIZENS, SOME OF WHOM WERE FORMALLY ENSLAVED. AND IN APRIL, 1918, THE SAN ANTONIO BRANCH NAACP WAS CHARTERED. THE 503 MEMBERS ELECTED HIM AS FIRST PRESIDENT, NOTING THAT BLACK SOLDIERS COULD NOT SOCIALIZE IN SEGREGATED BASE FACILITIES. AT FORT SAM HOUSTON, GRUMBLES PURCHASED THE LAND FOR THE COLORED COMMUNITY HOUSE, BUILT ON THE SITE OF THE PRESENT DAY. CARVER CULTURAL CENTER GRUMBLES ALSO LEVERAGED HIS POLITICAL CONTEXT TO GAIN EMPLOYMENT FOR BLACK WOMEN BY CONNECTING THEIR WORK WITH THE WORLD WAR I EFFORT. BY 1920, THE SAN ANTONIO BRANCH NAACP WAS ONE OF THE SEVEN LARGEST IN THE NATION. PLEASE HONOR THE MEMORY OF THIS PATRIOTIC, COURAGEOUS, PRODUCTIVE, RIGHTEOUS, DISTINGUISHED SAN ANTONIO. SAVE HIS BEAUTIFUL HOME WITH THE WRAPAROUND PORCH. 1115 WYOMING [01:50:01] STREET. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONERS, THAT CONCLUDES OUR VOICEMAILS. UH, AND THAT ALSO CONCLUDES ALL OF OUR PUBLIC COMMENTS. ALL RIGHT. UH, DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR STAFF OR STATE PROPERTY? MICHAEL, I I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR, FOR THE APPLICANT, I MEAN, NOT FOR THE APPLICANT, FOR THE, UM, THE OWNER? YES, SIR. CAN THE OWNER HEAR ME? IS THE OWNER THERE? YES. ALICE ALSO NEEDS TO BE UNMUTED. PLEASE. YOU'RE BOTH UNMUTED. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU, WHY DO YOU WANNA TEAR THIS HOUSE DOWN? BECAUSE IT IS A DEATH TRAP. WE HAD NO IDEA. IT WAS NOT MARKED. IT WAS AT TITLE WHEN WE BOUGHT IT. WE WANTED THE HOUSE BUILT. WE WANTED THE LAND TO BUILD ANOTHER HOUSE ON. WE KNEW, UH, AT FIRST WE THOUGHT IT COULD BE, UH, REHAB OR, YOU KNOW, REDONE, BUT IT'S SO FAR GONE THAT IT'S GETTING READY TO FALL IN THIS CONNIE'S HOUSE. AND THAT IS WHAT I'M SCARED OF. WE PUT UP A NO TRESPASSING SIGN, UH, AND NAILED THE DOOR SHUT AND THE WINDOW SHUT. UM, WHEN I CAME IN AFTER THE COMMISSION WENT, THE DOOR WAS WIDE OPEN. SO, UH, SO WHAT, WHY DO WE WANNA TEAR IT DOWN? BECAUSE IT'S NOT INHABITABLE. HOWEVER, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN HERE, AND IF ANYBODY WANTS TO BUY THE PROPERTY FROM ALICE AND I WE'RE MORE THAN WILLING TO HAVE IT, TO HAVE THEM REIMBURSE US FOR ALL THAT WE'VE DONE. WE WERE HELPING OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE BOUGHT IT ANYWAY, THE LADY WHO, UH, THE BUILDER GOT IT FROM TRYING TO HELP OUT AN OLD LADY WHO COULDN'T TAKE CARE OF HER HOUSE, AND HE THOUGHT WE'D BE INTERESTED BECAUSE WE WERE LOOKING FOR SOME PROPERTY DOWN THERE TO BUILD A HOUSE ON. NEITHER ONE OF US EXPECTED ANY OF THIS. WELL, THANK YOU, MA'AM, FOR YOUR, WE SAVED UP THE MONEY TO HAVE IT DEMOLISHED BECAUSE IT'S NOT INHABITABLE. AND RIGHT NOW, MISS COUNTY'S LIVING NEXT DOOR TO A, UM, PLACE THAT IS INHABITED BY WILDLIFE. UM, YEAH, IT'S JUST BAD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. YES, MA'AM. I MEAN, MR. CHAIR, JUST BASED ON THE STAFF FINDINGS AND ALSO OUR PURVIEW, WHICH IS REALLY JUST RECOMMENDING HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE, UM, I THINK IT STILL LEAVES THE APPLICANTS WITH OPTIONS. AND THIS WILL GO TO CITY COUNCIL AS WELL AS BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OR, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD. UM, JUST BASED ON OUR PURVIEW AND STAFF FINDINGS AND THE PRESENTATION, I, UM, KIND OF AGREE WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATION. CHAIR, COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER GIBBS? YES. COMMISSIONER GIS. MR. CAN I MAJOR IN THIS PROPERTY? I THINK I SHOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK AS WELL. AND WHO IS THIS PLEASE? ALICE, CAN I ON THE MAJOR PROPERTY OWNER? YES, MA'AM. GO AHEAD, JOANNE AND I, YEAH, SO JOANNE AND I ARE BUSINESS TOGETHER, AND I THINK THIS IS WONDERFUL THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO FIND PEOPLE TO COME FORWARD AND TALK ABOUT A HOUSE THAT NO ONE CARED ABOUT UNTIL WE PURCHASED IT. NOW, I KNOW THAT WE'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE HERITAGE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO AND BLACK LIVES AND ALL THIS, BUT DID YOU REALIZE MR. GRUMBLE WAS ONLY HALF BLACK? WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF HIS HERITAGE? NOBODY BROUGHT THAT INTO QUESTION. AND ALSO, IF THERE IS ANYBODY OUT THERE, ONE OF THESE PEOPLE THAT CAME FORWARD THAT WAS SO EASILY SWAYED INTO LOOKING AT A HOUSE AND SAYING, YOU BUILT A HOUSE THAT THEY'VE PROBABLY NEVER, EVER SEEN, UH, COME FORWARD AND BUY THE PROPERTY FORM, YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME ALONG AND FIX IT UP IF YOU THINK YOU CAN AFFORD IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. CHAIR. THIS COMMISSIONER GIBBS? YES, COMMISSIONER. SO, UM, I WANNA ECHO, UM, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER GROOVE'S COMMENTS, UM, AS FAR AS THE, UM, PROPERTY GOES, UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS, UM, SAYING THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, WEREN'T AWARE, UM, THE PROPERTY, THEY WERE JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING, SOME LAND TO BUY AND THEN TEAR DOWN A HOUSE AND THEN BUILD SOMETHING ELSE ON THERE. BUT FACT, IT REMAINS THAT IT IS, UM, A HOUSE OF HISTORICAL, UM, REVERENCE. AND, UM, IT SHOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE PRESERVED. UM, THE, UM, I I, THE APPLICANTS, I MEAN, NOT THE APPLICANTS, BUT THE OWNERS ACTUALLY MENTIONED ALSO THAT THERE ARE OTHERS THAT OUT THERE THAT ARE INTERESTED IN BUYING, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE MORE THAN WILLING [01:55:01] TO SELL IT. SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT, UM, IF ONE THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN KEEPING A PROPERTY BECAUSE OF THE, UM, THIS HISTORICAL REFERENCE THAT, UM, THE OTHERS HAVE TALKED ABOUT TODAY, THAT THE O H P HAS MENTIONED, THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, MAYBE DO CONSIDER THAT, UM, MAYBE CONSIDER PUTTING IT BACK UP FOR SALE AND THEN, UM, THAT WAY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BE UP FROM UNDER THE PROPERTY. BUT, UM, UH, BUT MR. GRUMBLES, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, EFFECTIVELY KNOWN AS JA GRUMBLES, UM, WAS, AS MANY OF THE CALLERS MENTIONED, UM, WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF COLLEGE PEOPLE. AND THE FACT THAT YOU, UM, MENTIONED THAT HE WAS ONLY HALF BLACK. I MEAN, A, A, A DROP OF BLOOD THAT MAKES YOU BLACK. YOU ARE BLACK, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU HAVE BLACK QUARTERBACK, 10 BLACK OR WHATEVER, YOU'RE STILL BLACK. SO I MEAN, THAT, THAT REALLY, REALLY HAS NO REFERENCE REV REVERENCE HERE. SO, BUT THE POINT IS THAT, UM, I THINK THAT THIS IS, STAFF HAS THIS RIGHT AND THAT THIS HOUSE SHOULD BE PRESERVED. THANK YOU, MR. PER, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. MR. COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, I'D LIKE TO, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, THE MOTION TO, TO, UH, APPROVE AS SUBMITTED BY, UH, O H P. ALL RIGHT. DO WE HAVE A, A SECOND. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. I SECOND. DO YOU HAVE A SECOND? UM, I DO WANNA MAKE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. UH, BASED ON THE SITE VISIT THAT I WAS, UH, PARTY TO, UH, WE DIDN'T, AT THAT TIME, WE DID NOT GO INSIDE THE BUILDING. UH, AND THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, OTHER THAN THE FOUNDATION SEEMED TO BE, AND POSSIBLY A REAR ADDITION SEEMED TO BE IN, UH, FAIRLY GOOD SHAPE. THE WINDOWS, UH, WERE NOT RACKED, OR THE DOORS WERE NOT RACKED. THE BUILDING WAS AMAZINGLY PLUMB AND SQUARE FOR BEING AS OLD AS IT IS, IT DOES HAVE SOME FOUNDATION ISSUES, BUT IT, UH, IN ADDITION TO THE SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE BUILDING, IT DOES HAVE, UH, A LOT OF ARCHITECTURAL, UH, SIGNIFICANCE STILL INTACT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MR. CHAIRMAN? THIS IS, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UH, WOULD LIKE TO JUST ECHO, UH, THE COMMENTS YOU MADE ABOUT THE SITE VISIT? I WAS ALSO IN ATTENDANCE. UH, THE DOOR WAS, UH, CLOSE WITH A POT, PLYWOOD PANEL. AT THE TIME, WE DID NOT ENTER, UH, THE MOST WE DID WAS WE STOOD ON THE FRONT PORCH BECAUSE I THINK THERE WAS SOME, UH, IMMINENT RAIN TO, UH, COMING OUR WAY WHEN WE WERE THERE. UM, UH, IT'S BEEN INTERESTING TO HEAR AND TO LEARN SO MUCH MORE ABOUT OUR BLACK BROTHERS AND SISTERS EARLY STRUGGLE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. AND I THINK THIS, THIS PROPERTY IS, IS KIND OF, I THINK, A TESTAMENT TO WHY WE CAN DRIVE BY THESE DAY AFTER DAY AND JUST THINK THEY'RE DERELICT BUILDINGS. BUT WHEN WE REALLY START DIVING INTO 'EM, WE, WE, WE FIND THEY'RE, THEY ARE A TANGIBLE AND RESONANT, UM, WITNESS TO THE HISTORY OF OUR COMMUNITY. AND, UM, I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATIONS OF THE, UH, OWNER HAS ALL ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY, YOU GET IT ON THE CHEEK, YOU JUST WANT THE DIRT. UM, BUT THIS, THIS ONE REALLY, I THINK, UM, DOING OUR DUE DILIGENCE, PARTICULARLY IN OUR HISTORIC COMMUNITIES AND OUR OLDER, UH, NEIGHBORHOODS, UH, BUT BEFORE YOU PURCHASE A PIECE OF PROPERTY IS REALLY IMPORTANT, UH, TO TALK ABOUT THE CONDITION FOR A SECOND. IT IS, UH, AN AMAZING CONDITION. IT, THERE IS UNDOUBTEDLY, UH, A GREAT DEAL OF DETERIORATION BECAUSE OF, OF NEGLECT, AND THERE'S SIGNIFICANT HISTORY AS TO WHY THAT WOULD BE AS WELL. UH, BUT THERE IS A LOT THAT HAS INTEGRITY THERE. UM, IT WAS MENTIONED THAT THE, THE PORCH COLUMNS HAVE BEEN REMOVED, BUT THERE ARE STILL COLUMNS THAT ARE ENGAGED, UH, COLUMNS THERE THAT COULD GIVE CLUES TO RESTORATION. UH, THE STRUCTURE IS A PYRAMID BEAM WOOD FRAME STRUCTURE. SO IT'S RELATIVELY WHITE CAN, CAN BE LIFTED IN A NEW FOUNDATION, PUT IN PLACE. THE CONCRETE, UH, FRONT PORCH THAT WAS PUT ON THERE AFTERWARDS, PROBABLY IN THE FIFTIES OR SIXTIES AT SOME POINT, WHICH IS SO TYPICAL, UH, 'CAUSE THE WOOD ONES WOULD'VE BROUGHT IT OUT, CAN BE DEMOLISHED, AND THE NEW WOOD PORCH CAN BE PUT INTO PLACE. THE DETERIORATED, UH, ADDITION ON THE REAR, UH, CAN BE REMOVED. AND TO EXPOSE THE CORE OF WHAT IS TRULY SIGNIFICANT THERE. UM, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE A FEW OTHER COMMENTS. BASED UPON, UH, A FEW THINGS THAT WERE SAID, UH, BEAR COUNTY, UH, APPRAISAL DISTRICT'S, UH, INFORMATION IS NOTORIOUSLY [02:00:02] AN ERROR. ANYONE WHO DOES ANY HISTORIC RESEARCH HERE IN SAN ANTONIO DISCOVERS THAT FREQUENTLY THE DATE OF CONSTRUCTION IS INCORRECT. AND FREQUENTLY WE HAVE FOUND, UH, THAT THE AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS ATTRIBUTED TO A PROPERTY IS INCORRECT. AND OCCASIONALLY YOU'LL FIND IT WHERE IT'S LISTING STRUCTURES THAT MAY HAVE DISAPPEARED OR WENT AWAY AT SOME POINT. SO IT IS OF NO SURPRISE TO ME THAT BEXAR COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT IS SHOWING 1920, AND THIS STRUCTURE IS INDEED MUCH EARLIER THAN THAT, JUST THAT IS ATTESTED TO BY, ITS ITS ARCHITECTURAL, UH, STYLE. SO I, I THINK THERE'S JUST SOME, UH, THERE WERE SOME CLAIMS MADE ABOUT THAT. UM, SO I, I'M IN SUPPORT OF THIS, UH, FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. I THINK THIS IS A, A, A PROPERTY THAT WOULD LEND ITSELF TO BEING REHABILITATED AND, UM, UH, A BE A TRIBUTE, UH, TO JA AND ELLA AND ALL THOSE THAT CAME BEFORE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MR. CHAIR? COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ? I'D LIKE TO, IF THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER COMMENTS, I'D LIKE TO JUST KIND OF, UH, ADD SOMETHING TO MY MOTION. YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT'S ALWAYS WITH HEAVY HEART FOR ME THAT I, THAT THESE, THESE, UH, IMPORTANT, UM, DESIGNATIONS OF THESE IMPORTANT PEOPLE THAT WERE PART OF THE MARGINALIZED POPULATIONS IN SAN ANTONIO FOR SO VERY, VERY LONG. ALWAYS REMIND ME OF THE VOTE THAT WE TOOK TO DEMOLISH ALBERT PENA'S HOUSE IN KING WILLIAM, A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS A DESIGNATION OR IN LA VACA. AND, AND JUST A CAUTION TO STAFF THAT STAFF'S COMMENTS WERE FOR THE, YOU KNOW, A APPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION OF THAT HOUSE AND, AND AN INDIVIDUAL NO LESS IMPORTANT, UH, THAN THIS INDIVIDUAL. UH, THAT, UH, IS, IS PART OF THE HISTORY OF THE NAACP. BUT I, I JUST LIKE TO, TO, TO ASK O H P AND PERHAPS THE, THE, UH, THE OWNERS, UH, TO, TO LOOK INTO THE PROCESS THAT ENABLES THE CITY TO U UTILIZE EMINENT DOMAIN IN ORDER FOR THE CITY TO PURCHASE, UH, UH, PROPERTIES OF, OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. AND IF OF ALL THE PROPERTIES IN THE CITY, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT, WHEN WE'RE TALKING OUT ABOUT, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PROPERTY, UH, THAT HAS, UH, UH, SUCH AN ICON ASSOCIATED WITH IT, THAT MOST DEFINITELY, IT SHOULD BE WITHIN THE POSSIBILITIES OF, OF A, OF A, OF A GOOD DEAL, UH, FOR POSSIBLY THE NAACP COMING IN AND, AND, AND BEING THE NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT, THAT, THAT COULD UNDERTAKE THE, THE STEWARDSHIP OF THIS IMPORTANT BUILDING. AND, AND PERHAPS IT TEACHES A, A GOOD LESSON THAT WE REALLY HAVE TO GET OUTTA THE HABIT OF WAITING, UH, FOR THESE, UH, APPLICATIONS AND FOR, FOR THESE, UH, HISTORIES. AND DO THE HISTORIES AND DECIDE WHICH HOUSES, UH, SHOULD BE, UH, REQUESTED WITHOUT A DEMOLITION OR REQUEST. UH, THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. UH, I BELIEVE THE OWNERS WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING BEFORE WE TAKE A VOTE. YES, SIR. I UNDERSTAND HISTORY. I, WE WALKED INTO SOMETHING WE HAD NO IDEA. WE WANTED, UM, PARDON, PARDON ME FOR INTERRUPTING. CAN, BUT CAN YOU MAKE SURE THAT YOUR, UM, COMPUTERS ARE MUTED? THE LIVE STREAM IS MUTED. YEAH, MINE'S MUTED. OKAY, GO AHEAD. SO I UNDERSTAND, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, HISTORY, I'M A BIG HISTORY BUYER AND I GET IT. I GET WHY WE'RE DOING IT, BUT THIS HOUSE HAD NO INDICATION. AND NOW I AM STUCK WITH SOMETHING I CAN'T AFFORD TO DO ANYTHING WITH, BECAUSE THIS WAS A FUTURE PROJECT FOR ME AND ALICE FOR RETIREMENT. OKAY. AND YES, I WILL DEFINITELY CONSIDER THE NAACP, BUT RIGHT NOW, THIS HOUSE IS IN DANGER OF FALLING OVER ON MS. CONNIE'S HOUSE, WHICH WILL CAUSE PROPERTY DAMAGE. SO, YOU KNOW, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO BUY US OUT FOR WHAT WE PAID PLUS THE TAXES AND TAKEN CARE OF IT, BECAUSE I'VE HAD SOMEBODY GO DOWN THERE EVERY WEEKEND TO MOW, THAT'S HOW I FOUND THE OPEN DOOR RIGHT AFTER THE COMMISSION'S VISIT. AND I HAVE PICTURES OF PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE FROM THE COMMISSION, THE STAFF, SO, AND THEY BROKE IN . THEY HAD TO BREAK DOWN THE DOOR TO GET IN . SO, YOU KNOW, PLEASE UNDERSTAND, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I FEEL LIKE I'M BEING HELD [02:05:01] HOSTAGE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET OUT OF IT. I REALLY DON'T. I'VE, I'M OFFERING TO SELL IT. I'M OFFERING TO SELL IT AT WHAT MY EXPENSE WAS. BUT ARE WE GONNA LEAVE THIS UP AND READY TO FALL OVER ON MISS CONNIE WITH THE NEXT FLOOD? BECAUSE THE WEATHER HAS BEEN WEIRD, , AND I AM JUST REALLY CONCERNED WE'VE ALREADY HAD TO CLEAN UP PRE BRANCHES FROM DOWN THERE. UM, HELP ME. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THIS. OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, I WOULD SAY IF THIS PROCEEDS WITH A, UM, A VOTE FOR DESIGNATION, THEN I WOULD SAY WITH, HELLO? CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING? YES. YES, MA'AM. CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING? I WANTED TO ALSO POINT OUT THAT THE, UM, UH, ADDRESS WAS SEVEN 15 WYOMING FOR MR. GRUMBLE, AND THIS IS 1 1 1 5 WYOMING. ARE WE SURE WE HAVE THE RIGHT HOUSE? THAT'D BE A QUESTION FOR JESSICA OR DR. HAY. I'M, I'M WAITING FOR DR. HAY TO PIPE IN. I'M SO SORRY. HOLD ON ONE MOMENT. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES. THIS IS, THIS IS JENNY HAY. YES. UM, AS, AS IS THE CASE IN MANY, UM, OF THE PROPERTIES THAT WE RESEARCHED, THERE WERE MULTIPLE ADDRESS CHANGES OVER TIME, AND WE DID OUR BEST TO DOCUMENT THOSE, UM, USING, UM, A COMBINATION OF MAPS AND CITY DIRECTORIES WITHIN THE CASE FILE. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, I'M GONNA CALL FOR A VOTE AND, UM, THEN STAFF CAN WORK WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND, UH, HOPEFULLY ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, IMMINENT THEIR THOUGHTS THAT IT'S IMMINENTLY GOING TO COLLAPSE AGAINST THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, AND, UH, PERHAPS CITY ENGINEERS CAN LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. UM, SO MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. GIBBS? AYE. QUEZ? AYE. SORAN. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. BUTZER. AYE. FU AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. AND WE'LL DO ONE MORE CASE AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. OKAY. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE STILL THERE. UM, SO THE [19. 21-4856 Address/Description: 220 N MESQUITE ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-318 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Brad Clawson/Elise Construction Request: Window replacement, fenestration modifications City Council Dist.: 2 ] COMMISSIONERS JUST VOTED TO RECOMMEND, UH, JUST CAN YOU MUTE? OKAY, SORRY. THERE WE GO. GO AHEAD. EDWARD. UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 19 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 3 18 2 20 NORTH MESQUITE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, MODIFY THE FRONT FACADE TO, FROM THE CURRENT CONFIGURATION TO FEATURE TWO GROUP SETS OF WINDOWS. TWO, TO REMOVE TWO EXISTING WINDOW OPENINGS AND THREE, TO REPLACE THE EXISTING ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH NEW ALUMINUM WINDOWS. UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION READS AS FOLLOWS. UH, FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, FRONT FACADE MODIFICATIONS BASED ON FINDING B WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE AT THE PROPOSED WINDOW OPENING FEATURE WIDTHS AND HEAD AND SILL HEIGHTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS BASED ON FINDING C STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT ALL ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS REMAIN AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST. AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE, ALUMINUM WINDOW REPLACEMENT WITH NEW ALUMINUM WINDOWS BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT WINDOWS BE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS. UH, I BELIEVE KATIE IS NOW ON THE LINE WITH THE APPLICANT FOR TWO 20 NORTH MESQUITE. MR. BRAD CLAWSON, UH, KATIE, ARE YOU THERE WITH THE APPLICANT? YES, I'M HERE. UM, BRAD, DO YOU WANNA INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE? HELLO, EVERYONE? YES, IT'S, UH, BRAD CLAUSON WITH ELISE CONSTRUCTION. SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS? I, UH, YEAH, SOME AGREEANCE WITH THE STAFF. RE I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR WHETHER YOU'D LIKE TO, UH, DISCUSS ANY OF THEM. YEAH, SO I AGREE WITH THEM. UM, EXCEPT FOR, UM, NUMBER TWO. SO ON NUMBER TWO, THE REASON THAT WE WERE WANTING TO GET RID OF THOSE TWO WINDOWS, ONE OF 'EM IS, IS NOW GONNA CURRENTLY BE INSIDE OF A CLOSET, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE IS GONNA BE INSIDE OF A, UH, A SHOWER AREA. THAT'S, WE WERE WANTING TO EMIT BOTH OF THOSE WINDOWS. OKAY. UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT BEARS ANY WEIGHT, UM, BUT [02:10:01] FROM TALKING WITH, UH, TO PEOPLE WITHIN THE AREA, I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT WAS THERE. I THINK THE ORIGINAL ONE BURNT DOWN IN THE EIGHTIES AND THEY BROUGHT THIS HOUSE IN. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, EDWARD, DO WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS? WE DO. I'LL READ THOSE NOW. THIS IS FROM THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. UH, THE COMMENT READS, WE SUPPORT STAFF ON ITEMS ONE AND TWO, HOWEVER, WE DO NOT SUPPORT STAFF ON ITEM NUMBER THREE. O HP'S WINDOW STANDARDS SEEM COMPLICATED, BUT THE INTENTION OF THE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS IS TO PROVIDE WINDOW IMPROVEMENTS TO THE EXISTING CONDITIONS WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY ARISES THROUGH REHAB AND REPAIR. THIS IS ALSO TRUE WHEN EXISTING NON-CONFORMING WINDOWS ARE CONSIDERED. THE NON-CONFORMING ALUMINUM WINDOW IN A HISTORIC HOUSE SHOULD BE, SHOULD IMPROVE TO A WOOD OR METAL CLAD WOOD UNIT. UH, THIS CONCLUDES THE PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THIS ITEM. THANK YOU. UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. UM, BASED ON, I MEAN, I THINK IT RECOMMENDED THIS PREVIOUSLY, UM, WHETHER OR NOT THIS HOUSE WAS MOVED THERE, THE HOUSE SEEMS HISTORIC. UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THE APPLICANT, UM, YOU CAN SHEET ROCK FROM THE INSIDE THOSE WINDOWS, BUT, UM, I WOULD SUGGEST THOSE WINDOWS REMAIN ON PROPERTY AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE DESIGN, UH, YOU'RE NOT REPLACING THEM ON ANYTHING. SO I WOULD JUST SUGGEST, UH, COVERING THEM UP FROM THE INSIDE, BUT LEAVING THEM AS IS. OKAY. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'LL BE OKAY WITH? YES, MA'AM. AND, AND JUST TO THE COMMENT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I MEAN, I, I, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE ALSO BEEN CONSISTENT WITH. IF THERE ARE EXISTING ALUMINUM WINDOWS, WE'LL ACCEPT THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS. UNLESS THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING, UH, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THEN WE ARE, UH, ESPECIALLY ON THE NEW WINDOWS, RIGHT? IS THAT CORRECT? STAFF? WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT TO CLARIFY? YES, I CAN SPEAK TO THAT. SO, UH, STAFF CAN RE RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REPLACEMENT OF WINDOWS IN KIND, PROVIDED THAT THOSE WINDOWS GENERALLY MEET STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS. UM, WHERE THERE'S AN EXISTING ALUMINUM WINDOW, STAFF CAN RECOMMEND ALUMINUM WINDOWS THAT GENERALLY MEET OUR STANDARDS. UM, OBVIOUSLY IF THERE WAS A WOOD WINDOW THAT WAS IN PLACE, STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND THE REPAIR OF THAT WOOD WINDOW. IF THAT WOOD WINDOW IS BEYOND REPAIR, STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND THE INSTALLATION OF A WOOD WINDOW THAT MATCHED, UH, IN PROFILE. OKAY. THANK YOU. READY? I'M READY. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? MR. CHAIR? THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. YES, SIR. UM, EDWARD, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT STATEMENT. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT, UM, I MEAN CLARIFYING THAT POINT BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS, UM, A CONTINUAL, YOU KNOW, UM, SOURCE SPOT, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY. SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND I, UM, I DEFINITELY INCUR WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER GROUP ON OUR COMMENTS AS SO I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF THIS. THANK YOU. THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A MOTION. YES, MA'AM. MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER ONE WITH STAFF STIPULATION DENIAL OF ITEM TWO AND APPROVE ITEM NUMBER THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATION. COMMISSIONER GIBBS, I SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. DO WE NEED HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. IBBS? AYE. QUEZ? AYE. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. RU. AYE. THAT AYE. LA AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. UH, WE WILL NOW TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. AGAIN NOW, RIGHT. I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR JULY 21ST, 2021. [20. 21-4860 (Part 1 of 2) Address/Description: 119 DELAWARE HDRC Case No.: 2021-312 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Carlos Gonzalez/CJGonzalez Roofing Request: Metal roof replacement to include a ridge cap and striations City Council Dist.: 1 ] CASE NUMBER 20, I BELIEVE. PERFECT. YES. UH, STEPHANIE, ARE YOU THERE? CASE NUMBER 20. STEPHANIE, ARE YOU THERE? [02:15:05] BEAR WITH US ONE MINUTE. FOR THIS ONE SECOND, WE'RE ACTUALLY, UM, AS WE NORMALLY DO, EXCUSE ME, WE'LL HAVE MORE THAN ONE APPLICANT ON AT THE SAME TIME, UM, IN CASE SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS. SO WE'RE ALSO WORKING ON, UH, THE NEXT CASE, WHICH IS 2 0 3 ISABELLE. UM, SO IF WE CAN'T GET ONE 19, UM, IF WE CAN'T GET ONE 19 DELAWARE ON NOW, UH, WE WILL TRY TO MOVE ON TO ISABELLE AS SOON AS WE CAN. I BELIEVE STEPHANIE MAY ACTUALLY HAVE THEM ON THE LINE AND SHE'S TRYING TO WORK ON CONFERENCING THEM IN NOW. SO WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE DELAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HARD WORK, EDWARD. OH, THANK YOU. SORRY FOR ANY HICCUPS. I'M TRYING TO MANAGE THINGS AS BEST I CAN. YOU'RE DOING A GREAT JOB. I KNOW IT'S TOUGH. ALL THIS QUOTE UNQUOTE TECHNOLOGY THAT MAKES IT BETTER. UH, LET'S ACTUALLY, UH, KATIE HAS THE APPLICANT FOR, UH, 2 0 3 ISABELLE ON NOW. SO LET'S ACTUALLY GO AHEAD AND, AND JUMP ORDER. I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A SPECIAL MOTION. WE'LL COME BACK TO, UH, ONE 19 DELAWARE ONCE WE FINISH. TWO 20 IS, OR 2 0 3 ISABEL, UM, H D R C, CASE [21. 21-4832 Address/Description: 203 ISABEL ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-333 Historic District Name: Mission Applicant: Lucia Zaragoza Request: Window replacement, fenestration modifications, door removal, repair, and maintenance City Council Dist.: 3 ] NUMBER, UH, 20 21 3 33. ITEM NUMBER 21 2 0 3. ISABEL, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL. TWO. ONE, REPLACE EXISTING DAMAGED SIDING TILES IN KIND AND REPAINT THE HIS AND PAINT THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. TWO, TO REPLACE THE EXISTING ROOF STRUCTURE WITH MATCHING SHINGLES AND PERFORM AWNING REPAIR. THREE, TO REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS WITH WHITE ALUMINUM WINDOWS. AND FOUR, TO REMOVE THE EXISTING STREET FACING FRONT DOOR OPENINGS, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE IN-KIND SIDING REPLACEMENT AND PAINTING AS SUBMITTED. BASED ON FINDING B. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO IN-KIND ROOF AND AWNING REPAIR BASED ON FINDING V. BUT THE STIPULATION THAT ALL ROOF FORMS REMAIN AS THEY EXIST, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE WITH WINDOW REPLACEMENT WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT ALL EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS BE REPAIRED. ANY WINDOWS THAT ARE BEYOND REPAIR SHOULD BE REPLACED IN KIND. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO O H P STAFF, NOTING THAT WINDOWS ARE BEYOND REPAIR AND STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FOUR. THE REMOVAL OF THE STREET FACING FRONT DOOR BASED ON FINDING D STAFF RECOMMENDS THE, THAT THE EXISTING ORIGINAL DOOR OPENING BE PRESERVED AS IT EXISTS. KATIE IS ON THE LINE NOW WITH A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OWNER, I BELIEVE THE OWNER'S SON. UH, KATIE, ARE YOU THERE? UM, YES. I'M HERE WITH, UM, JOHN. UM, ARE YOU THERE? JOHN, DO YOU WANNA INTRODUCE YOURSELF? YES. THANK YOU, KATIE. UH, MY NAME IS JOHN ZARAGOZA. UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO THE COMMISSION FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. YES, SIR. UM, GO AHEAD. IF YOU COMMENT ON, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL COMPLY. ITEM NUMBER TWO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL COMPLY. UM, ITEM NUMBER THREE, THE, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION'S SAKE, THE, THE RECOMMENDATION IS FOR US TO GO IN AND REPAIR THE EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS. CORRECT. AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE THE, AND AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION'S SAKE, COULD WE GO TO THE PICTURES WHICH ACT, THE, UH, DETAILED PICTURES WHICH ACTUALLY SHOW, UH, THE FACADE, UH, THE FACADE OF THE WINDOWS. WOULD THAT BE POSSIBLE? YES. STARTING MAY THE LAG TIME ON YOU SEEING THE IMAGES, BUT THEY'RE BRICK COMING UP NOW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [02:20:05] SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THE, THE WINDOWS ARE ACTUALLY, ARE, ARE, ARE FRAMED IN WITH WOOD. THE, THE INTENTION WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD REPLACE THE WINDOWS WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS, BUT STILL RETAIN THE WOOD, UH, THE WOOD OUTSIDE OF THE WINDOWS, THE, UH, THE FRAMING OF THE, UH, OF THE, UH, OF THE WOOD ITSELF. SO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE WHERE YOU DO SEE THE ACTUAL, THE ACTUAL WOOD OF THE, UH, ON THE OUTSIDE THAT'S FRAMING IN THE WINDOWS, WHAT WE WOULD BE DOING IS REPLACING THOSE WINDOWS WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS, BUT STILL KIT THE WOOD, UH, THE, UH, WOOD AWNING AROUND IT. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE COMMISSION WOULD CONSIDER? GENERALLY, IF WOOD WINDOWS CANNOT BE REPAIRED, THEN, UH, STAFF AND THE O H AND THE COMMISSION, UH, GO, RECOMMENDS THAT THEY BE REPLACED IN KIND. SO A WOOD WINDOW WOULD BE REPLACED WITH THE WOOD WINDOW. UH, BUT GENERALLY, UNLESS THEY ARE, UM, NOT REPAIRABLE, UH, THAT WOULD BE THE, THE RECOMMENDATION. BUT IF THEY ARE REPAIRABLE, THAT IS PREFERABLE BECAUSE WINDOWS ARE CONSIDERED A MAJOR CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF A STRUCTURE. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. UM, MOVING ON TO, TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR ON THE DOOR REPLACEMENT, IF WE CAN BRING UP THAT, THAT, UH, THAT PICTURE AND ACTUALLY ELIMINATION OF THAT DOOR, UH, WHILE THAT'S COMING UP, AND I'M, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE, UH, AGAIN, IT'S COMING UP ON, ON THE DELAY, UM, THE DOOR THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO GO BACK IN AND REMOVE HAS NO FUNCTION, NO PURPOSE. AS A MATTER OF FACT, ON THE INTERIOR, IT HAS BEEN, IT IS IN, UH, DRYWALLED UP. IT, IT ACTUALLY, THAT USED TO BE MY, UH, MY CHILDHOOD, UH, BEDROOM. SO FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A FUNCTIONING DOOR. UH, THAT DOOR HAS NEVER FUNCTIONED ENTRANCE INTO THE PROPERTY. IT'S ACTUALLY, AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY ON A DOOR TO THE, UH, TO THE LEFT, UH, SO THE INTENTION WOULD BE FOR US TO GO IN AND REMOVE THE DOOR AND THEN, UH, AND THEN USE THE EXISTING SHINGLES, UH, OR THE SAME MATERIALS IN ORDER TO GO IN AND WALL THAT OVER SO THAT IT LOOKS CONSISTENT. IT, IT WOULD, UH, HAVE A CONSISTENT LOOK WITH THE SHINGLES ALL THE WAY ACROSS. OKAY. AGAIN, GENERALLY IF A WINDOW OR A DOOR IS ORIGINAL TO THE STRUCTURE, UM, WE DO NOT APPROVE ITS REMOVAL, BUT DOES NOT PRECLUDE YOU DOING WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DONE, WHICH IS, UH, PUTTING, UH, GYPSUM BOARD SHEET ROCK PANELING ON THE INSIDE, BUT LEAVING THE EXTERIOR WITH THE, UH, DOOR AND DOOR TRIM EXPOSED. AGAIN, IT'S A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE HOME. UNDERSTOOD. RIGHT. I, I FIGURED I'D, I'D, I'D, UH, GET SOME CLARIFICATION. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THE COMMISSION. WE WILL COMPLY TO ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR. UH, ON A PERSONAL NOTE, AS I'VE BEEN LISTENING IN, UH, I FIND IT VERY INSTRUCTION, VERY INSTRUCTIONAL LISTENING INTO THE, UH, PROCEEDS TO DATE, AND I HAVE A NEWFOUND APPRECIATION FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. UH, AS I SAID BEFORE, WE WILL COMPLY FROM ONE TO FOUR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? WELL, MR. CHAIR, WITH, WITH THAT SAID, IT SEEMS IT'D BE APPROPRIATE, UH, TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, TO APPROVE AS, UH, PRESENTED BY STAFF WITH ALL, UH, STIPULATIONS. AND THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I SECOND THAT MOTION. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. I JUST SAY WOULD LIKE TO SAY THE APPLICANT WAS, WAS VERY PLEASANT AND I, I APPRECIATE HIS, UH, HIS PRE HIS PRESENTATION AND TO BE HERE TODAY. THANK YOU. YES. AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WILLINGNESS TO WORK WITH, UH, STAFF IN THE COMMISSION AND, UH, THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE, UH, WE'RE GUIDED BY. SO MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? HERNANDEZ? AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. NAN. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE. SPENCER FED SIR. AYE. AND THE FOOD HAS, UH, LEFT THE MEETING. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, [20. 21-4860 (Part 2 of 2) Address/Description: 119 DELAWARE HDRC Case No.: 2021-312 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Carlos Gonzalez/CJGonzalez Roofing Request: Metal roof replacement to include a ridge cap and striations City Council Dist.: 1 ] COMMISSIONERS, WE'RE GONNA JUMP BACK UP TO ITEM NUMBER 20, WHICH IS ONE 19 DELAWARE. STEPHANIE IS NOW AVAILABLE WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE PROPERTY OWNER. HI Y'ALL. ITEM NUMBER 20 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH THREE 12 ADDRESS, ONE 19 [02:25:01] DELAWARE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING STANDING SCENE METAL ROOF IN KIND TO INCLUDE PANEL STRIATIONS AND VENTED RIDGE CAP AND END CAP STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST AS PROPOSED STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE ROOF REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDINGS A AND B WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION. THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STANDING TEAM METAL ROOF FEATURING PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES WIDE. SEAM THAT ARE ONE TWO INCHES HIGH, A CRIMPED RIDGE SEAM, AND A STANDARD GAL FINISH PANELS SHOULD BE SMOOTH WITHOUT STRIATION OR CORRUGATION. BRIDGES ARE TO FEATURE A DOUBLE MUNCH OR CRYPT RIDGE CONFIGURATION. NO VENTED RIDGE CAPS OR END CAPS ARE ALLOWED. AN ONSITE SITE INSPECTION MUST BE SCHEDULED O H P STAFF PRIOR TO THE START OF WORK TO VERIFY THAT THE ROOFING MATERIAL MATCHES THE APPROVED SPECIFICATIONS. ALL CHIMNEY, FLU AND RELATED EXISTING ROOF DETAILS MUST BE PRESERVED. AND I DO HAVE THE OWNERS AND THE APPLICANT ON THE LINE AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE STIPULATIONS REGARDING THE RIDGE CAP AND THE PANEL STRIATIONS, I BELIEVE. UM, AND I NOW INVITE THE OWNERS AND THE APPLICANT TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AND SHARE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THEIR REQUEST. GO AHEAD. YES, UH, MY NAME IS CAR GONZALEZ AND I'M AT THE CONTRACTOR. MY NAME IS GUTIERREZ, OWNER OF THE HOUSE, AND MY NAME IS OSCAR GUTIERREZ, THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE. AND, UH, WE THANK YOU COMMISSION FOR LISTENING TO US, OR, UH, WE ARE REQUESTING TO REPLACE OUR ROOF THE SAME WAY THAT IT IS TO NOW. UM, WE DON'T, UH, WE JUST FEEL THAT IT'S THE BEST FOR OUR HOUSE. WE DID REPLACE IT NOT TOO LONG AGO, BUT BECAUSE OF HAIL DAMAGE, WE'RE HAVING TO REPLACE IT AGAIN AND WE JUST WANT TO STAY WITH THE SAME THE WAY THEY DID IT. UM, THAT WAS THE BASIC AND, UM, WHAT WE WOULD LIKE, YOU KNOW, AND, UM, CONTRACT THE, THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW, IT ALREADY HAS A REACHED CAP AND, AND THAT'S WHY THERE, THERE, UH, THE HOMEOWNERS ARE ARE ASKING LIKE, HOW COME WE CANNOT DO A RICH CAP IF IT'S THERE ALREADY? THE SITUATION. WELL, THOSE HE WANTS TO ADD BECAUSE, OH, HE LIKES THEM, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY IT LOOKS NICE, BUT THE RISK CAP IS THERE ALREADY. SO WE THAT QUESTION WHY, WHY WE CANNOT REPLACE, I WOULD LIKE THE SAME ONE. I DON'T KNOW WHY THE DIFFERENCE IS, FOR ME, IT'S NO DIFFERENCE AND IT'S ALREADY HAVING, THAT'S NOT OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. JUST A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IS THIS A COMPLIANCE CASE? HOW DID IT COME? NO, THIS ISN'T A COMPLIANCE CASE. UM, THE OWNERS INSTALLED THIS ROOF BEFORE. WE HAVE THESE STIPULATIONS THAT WE UTILIZE TODAY. SO THE OWNERS JUST CAME IN REQUESTING TO REPLACE THEIR EXISTING ROOF IN KIND DUE TO THE HAIL DAMAGE THAT THEY REFERENCED. SO IT IS A NEW ROOF. IT'S NOT KEEPING THE ONE THAT THEY HAVE THERE IS GONNA BE A NEW ROOF, CORRECT? YES. WE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REPLACE THE WHOLE ROOF BECAUSE OF ALL DAMAGE. OH, OH WOW. SO, MR. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS GOES BACK TO THAT, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, COMMENT THAT WAS, UH, DISCUSSING THE IDEA OF REPLACING KIND, UH, VERSUS IMPROVEMENT, UH, OF NON-COMPLIANT. UM, AND I, I THINK IT, IT LEAVES US IN A REAL DIFFICULT POSITION. 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY HERE THESE OWNERS HAVE TAKEN GOOD CARE OF THIS HOUSE. THEY WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE. THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF WHATEVER INSURANCE, UH, THEY'VE RECEIVED, YOU KNOW, TO REPLACE THIS ROOF WITH WHAT THEY'VE HAD BEFORE. UM, I I WOULD, WHILE, WHILE THE PURIST IN ME WOULD LIKE TO SEE A MUNCH SEAM ROOF ON THIS DONE APPROPRIATELY, I THINK THEY HAVE GOOD, GOOD GROUNDS FOR SAYING IT'S REPLACING KIND EVEN IF IT ISN'T, UH, COMPLETELY COMPLYING WITH THE THE GUIDELINES. UH, YOUR THOUGHTS, I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER WELL, YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE STRIATED PANELS. YEAH, THAT'S ONE THING. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF MAYBE THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO NOT DO THE STRIATED IF THEY'D GO WITH A HEAVIER GAUGE. THE REASON BEING, THE STRIATED DOES HAVE KIND OF A MORE OF AN INDUSTRIAL, UH, OR PREFABRICATED LOOK TO IT. AND IF YOU WERE TO GO WITH JUST THE, THE FLAT PANEL OF A THICKER GAUGE, UM, YOU WOULD AVOID THE OIL CANNING AND IT WOULD LOOK MORE TRADITIONAL EVEN IF THE RIDGE CAP DOES NOT. MR. CHAIR, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ? YES, SIR. UM, I THINK IT'S KIND OF AKIN TO LIKE THE ALUMINUM WINDOW SITUATION ON THAT OTHER HOUSE. RIGHT. BUT I, I DO THINK [02:30:01] ESPECIALLY, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER THAT IN ANY CONDITION ON A HOUSE, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THE SITUATION AND THERE'S REALLY NO ACCEPTABLE AESTHETIC WITH RESPECT TO THE STRIATION. THAT'S ALMOST LIKE SOMETHING THAT JUST GOT PASSED AND IT SHOULDN'T HAVE. UH, SO IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, UM, I I THINK THAT IN TERMS OF IT BEING A REPLACEMENT WITH WHAT WAS THERE, THAT, THAT MAKES SENSE. BUT WITH THE, WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THERE'D BE NO STRIATION AND, AND THAT THE, AND THAT THE, UM, THE HEIGHT OF THE RIDGES BE AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE AND THAT COULD BE DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY. BUT TO THE HOMEOWNER, I THINK IF THEY'VE GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGE THE ROOF OUT THAT THESE, THESE, THESE TINY LITTLE DETAILS THAT COULD BE ADDED NO STRIATION AND, AND THE LOWEST PROFILE WOULD ONLY MAKE THAT HOUSE LOOK SO MUCH PRETTIER. 'CAUSE IT'S, IT THAT, THAT THERE'S, THERE'S LITTLE DETAILS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON THE PICTURE RIGHT NOW THAT KIND OF TAKE AWAY FROM SOMETHING THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT, YOU KNOW. BUT, UM, IT COULD BE THAT, IT COULD BE THE, YOU KNOW, THE REFLECTION OF THE LIGHT ON THE, ON THE, ON THE PANELS AND THEN THE, THE HEIGHT OF, UH, THE HEIGHT OF THAT RIDGE. I, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, WHAT THE RULES ARE ON THE, ON THE RIDGE VENTS. YOU, AS FAR AS HOW THEY'RE CONSTRUCTED ON NOWADAYS. UH, BETTER IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE, BUT I, YOU KNOW, IS, YOU KNOW, UH, WE MAYBE LESSEN THE GAPS. LOOK AT THE JOINTS, SEE THE JOINTS ON THAT BREAKING. MAYBE THERE'S A, EXCUSE ME, COMMISSIONER, IF EVERY SAY WE WERE WILLING TO COMPLY WITH NO ATION. OH, THAT'S A, IT'S A GREAT, UH, GREAT ADDITION TO THE, TO THE IDEA. WELL, IF, IF THAT SAID IT WOULD, IF THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER COMMENTS, MR. CHAIRMAN WOULD A, WOULD A MOTION TO, UH, WHAT I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T MAKE THE MOTION. MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS IT BETTER CAN MAKE THE MOTION. I'LL, I'LL TRY TO JUMP IN ON IT. UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH, UH, THE STAFF STIPULATIONS ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE PANELS AND THAT THE PANELS BE NON-ST THAT THE RIDGE, UH, CAPS BE, UH, AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE, UM, AND STILL ACHIEVE THE, UH, VENTILATION REQUIRED FOR THE ROOF. I'LL SECOND THAT. MR. CARPENTER, IS IT POSSIBLE I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THE, THE RIDGE VENT SPEC WELL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE LENGTH OF THE RIDGE COULD BE, UH, STIPULATED AS ONE PIECE. I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THERE IS THREE PIECES AND YOU CAN SEE HOW IT, HOW IT BENDS TWISTS. IS IT, IS IT POSSIBLE? UM, YEAH, I MEAN, PART OF WHAT WE'RE GETTING INTO IS THEY HAVE A PREFABRICATED TERMINAL PIECE THERE AT THE CORNER. UM, SO I, LET'S LET'S TRY TO LEAVE IT OPEN-ENDED FOR STAFF TO WORK WITH THEM AND, AND SAY, UH, TO MINIMIZE RIDGE, UH, RIDGE, UH, TRIM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND TO, UH, UH, COORDINATE WITH STAFF FI FOR FINAL APPROVAL. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. OH, I'M SORRY. STEPPED AWAY. BB AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. TORAN. AYE. UH, CARPENTER? AYE. RUBE AYE. AND THAT AYE. MOTION CHAIRS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT. UM, [22. 21-4788 Address/Description: 320 MADISON ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-293 Landmark Name: Individual Landmark Historic District Name: King William Applicant: Maggie Wilmoth/MM Legacy Holdings LLC Request: Roof replacement and roof modifications City Council Dist.: 1 ] NEXT UP IS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 22. UM, THAT IS, UH, THREE 20 MADISON, I BELIEVE RACHEL IS HERE NOW WITH THE APPLICANT. YES. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 22 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 2 93 3 20. MADISON, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REMOVE THE EXISTING FRONT DORMER AND TWO, REPLACE THE EXISTING COMPOSITION SHINGLE ROOF WITH A BLACK STANDING SEA METAL ROOF. ITEM ONE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE DORMER REMOVAL BASED ON FINDING B. ITEM TWO. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ROOF REPLACEMENT WITH A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF BASED ON FINDING C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF FEATURING PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES WIDE. SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES IN HEIGHT, A CRIP, A CRIMPED RIDGE SEAM, AND A STANDARD GAL BLOOM FINISH PANEL SHOULD BE SMOOTH ABOUT STRIATION OR CORRUGATION. RIDGES ARE TO FEATURE DOUBLE MUNCH OR CRIMPED RIDGE CONFIGURATION. NO VENTED RIDGE CAPS OR END CAPS ARE ALLOWED. AND [02:35:01] ONSITE INSPECTION MUST BE SCHEDULED WITH O H P STAFF PRIOR TO THE START OF WORK TO VERIFY THAT THE ROOFING MATERIAL MATCHES THE APPROVED SPECIFICATIONS. ALL CHIMNEY, FLU AND RELATED EXISTING ROOF DETAILS MUST BE PRESERVED. AND THE OWNER, MAGGIE WILMA AND THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR JOSHUA GERNER IS ON THE LINE. MAGGIE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSIONERS AT THIS TIME? HI, YES, I'M HERE. AM I, UH, UH, RESPONDING TO THE COMMENTS OR WHERE DO I START? LIKE TO, YOU'RE ABOVE TO DISCUSS YOUR REQUEST. OH, GO AHEAD. IF YOU'D LIKE TO RESPOND TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. SURE. OKAY. UM, I GOT A COUPLE, JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS. YES. THE, THE, THE DOOR, DO YOU GUYS HAVE THE, THE PHOTO PACKET AND THE INFORMATION PACKET THAT I GUESS YOU GUYS HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF YOU? WE DO, YES. OKAY. UM, SO, UH, ONE THING THAT'S NOT IN THAT PACKET IS, UH, UH, THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, UH, WAS ACTUALLY A ONE STORY HOME. UM, AND SO THE SECOND STORY WAS ADDED, AND WE DON'T, OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW WHEN, BUT SOMETIME AFTER THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE WAS BUILT. UM, SO THE DORMER IS NOT ORIGINAL TO THE HOME, UH, AS, AND THE PIP ROOF LINE WITH NO DORMER ACTUALLY MATCHES THE, IT IS MORE IN LINE WITH THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE ON THE SANDBORNE MAPS THAN IT WOULD BE TODAY. UM, OUR ENGINEER, GENERAL CONTRACTOR, UM, LIKE I SAID, WE'VE HAD NO, NO EVIDENCE THAT'S ORIGINAL OR EVEN I, I, I, THERE'S JUST THE CONVERSATION IS THAT THAT WAS ADDED LATER ON AND NONE OF US KNOW WHEN THAT'S FINE. UM, WE'VE DONE AS MUCH RESEARCH AS POSSIBLE IT WOULD IN KING WILLIAM, UM, PROVIDED HISTORICAL PHOTOS OF HOMES OF THE SAME SIMILAR AGE AND STYLE WITH NO DORMER WITH A STRAIGHT HIP ROOF LINE. UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT IT'S ROTTING AND DISINTEGRATING AND, AND, AND HERE'S THE PICTURE OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE RENDERING OF WHAT THE HOUSE LOOKS LIKE WITHOUT THE DORMER AND SEVERAL PHOTOS OF SIMILAR AGENT STYLE HOMES WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT, THAT HAVE THE SAME, THAT THAT SAME STRAIGHT ROOF LINE. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THEN THE, UM, MR. CHAIRMAN RECOMMENDATION ABOUT THE, UH, ROOFING OH, OH. AND SO, AND THE, AND THE ROOF IS, UH, A WITHIN ALL THE PARAMETERS, THE, THE ONLY I THINK, UH, POINT OF, UH, CONVERSATION ON THE ROOF IS THE GAL LUMM FINISH VERSUS, UM, UH, THE TRADITIONAL GAL LUMM THAT'S GOT A MORE SILVERY TINT TO IT VERSUS THE CHARCOAL SLASH GRAPHITE. UH, A LITTLE BIT DARKER, UH, MORE MATTE FINISH OF, OF, OF, UH, OF METAL ROOFS THAN, UH, UH, THE COLOR, THE FINISH OF THE GAL BALLOON. UM, SO WE AGAIN, JUST TOOK A SAMPLE OF, OF HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE VARIED COLORS OF ROOFS. YOU HAVE THOSE IN FRONT OF YOU. UM, AND SO WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAT, THAT THAN WHAT EXISTS ALREADY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, EDWARD, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? I NOT HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED TO BE READ. HOWEVER, THERE IS A LETTER, UH, FROM THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION, UH, IN YOUR PACKETS. UM, THAT LETTER IS IN SUPPORT OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION, MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. THE PICTURE THAT ZOOMED IN A SECOND AGO ON THE DORMER, DO YOU THINK WE COULD GO BACK TO THAT PICTURE REAL QUICK? I DON'T KNOW IF THE, IF, IF THERE'S ANY TRUTH TO THAT PICTURE, BUT THERE'S SOMETHING ODD ABOUT THE LEFT SIDE VERSUS THE RIGHT SIDE AS WE LOOK AT THE SCREEN. RIGHT. THAT MIGHT SUPPORT THE IDEA THAT THAT'S NOT ORIGINAL. UM, WHETHER THAT WAS PUT ON WHEN THE HOUSE WAS THE SECOND FLOOR, IN WHICH CASE IF IT WAS PUT ON WHEN THE HOUSE ADDED THE SECOND FLOOR, THEN IT IS ORIGINAL. IT'S ORIGINAL TO THE SECOND FLOOR. 'CAUSE THE WHOLE CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE, WHETHER IT WAS A ONE STORY HOUSE OR A TWO STORY HOUSE, WHAT YOU SEE IS A, IS A HOUSE WITH, WITH VERY, UH, PROMINENT COLUMNS THAT REALLY DEFINE THE HOUSE NOW. SO THE HOUSE IS A HOUSE WITH, UH, WITH A SECOND FLOOR AND, AND, BUT, BUT THE DORMER SEEMS TO BE KIND OF ODD. ONE SIDE SEEMS TO BE BUILT A CERTAIN WAY AND THE OTHER SIDE SEEMS TO BE BUILT DIFFERENTLY, IN WHICH CASE MAYBE THAT DOES SUPPORT THAT THE DORMER CAME AFTER THE SECOND FLOOR. AND IT'S NOT THAT, THAT, THAT OLD, UM, JUST AN OBSERVATION FROM THE PICTURE THERE. I DO KNOW THAT THERE WAS SOME MODIFICATIONS MADE SOMETIME IN THE EIGHTIES OR NINETIES. THERE ARE SKYLIGHTS THAT WERE INSTALLED AROUND THAT TIME. UM, OBVIOUSLY I, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW, THAT WAS WHEN MAYOR HOWARD PEAK OWNED IT. UM, I THINK AT, AT AT ONE POINT WHERE THAT THIRD STORY UNIT WAS CONVERTED TO A, UM, OR, OR WAS MADE INTO A, AN APARTMENT UNIT WHERE SOMEONE COULD [02:40:01] LIVE. I, I THINK WERE, IS WHEN SOME OF THAT HAPPENED. THIS IS, UH, JOSH GERSTER, UH, UH, MAGGIE'S CONTRACTOR. I, AND I AGREE WITH THAT AS WELL, IS THAT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN ADDED IN THE EIGHTIES. THE STRUCTURE LOOKS LIKE IT WAS BUILT ABOUT THE SAME TIME THAT THE CUT-INS WERE DONE FOR THE ROOF WITH THE SKYLIGHTS. THAT, THAT THEY MIGHT MAKE ME MAKE IT A STRONG ARGUMENT FOR THAT MR. CHAIR. UH, I, I DON'T HOWEVER AGREE WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THOSE DARK, UH, COLORED, UH, METAL METAL ROOFS BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT AN ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF LIKE THAT AND, YOU KNOW, THE GAL BLOOM IS SO FAR AWAY FROM THE PROPER TIN COLOR ALSO, BUT IT'S STILL CLOSER. UM, THOSE KIND OF PRE PRE PREFAB COLORED METALS REALLY LOOK REAL BAD IN REALITY. I THINK IT'S JUST A PERSONAL OPINION. THANK YOU. WELL, AND IF I CAN JUST TYPE IN WITH, WITH THE, I THINK ORIGINALLY WHEN I SUBMITTED IT, I THINK THE, THE PAPERWORK SAID BLACK AND I THINK THAT PROBABLY MAYBE JUST RAISED SOME FLAGS OR, OR, OR, OR, YOU KNOW, ALARMED A FEW PEOPLE. AND THE TENT OF THE GRAPHITE OR CHARCOAL IS, IS VERY SIMILAR TO, I'VE ACTUALLY LOOKED AT, UM, EVERY KELLER, UH, KING WILLIAM ADVISORY ASSOCIATION DIRECTOR'S ROOF, THEY ALL HAVE THE GAL BALLOON ROOF. UM, THE SHADE OF THE GRAPHITE AND CHARCOAL ROOF IS ALMOST IDENTICAL TO TRADITIONAL GLOOM. IT'S NOT PAINTED, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE GREEN, PURPLE, GRAY, BRIGHT COPPER, RED BROWN, BRONZE. YOU HAVE PICTURES OF, I JUST DROVE DOWN THE STREETS AND TOOK PICTURES OF COLORED METAL ROOFS THAT ARE, THAT ARE ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND IT'S JUST, IT'S, I HAVE NO INTENTION OF MAKING THIS HOME. I MEAN, I, I I I ASSUME THAT YOU GUYS AS WELL AS YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBORHOOD KNOW THE HISTORY OF THIS HOME. AND I'VE BEEN THANKED BY EVERY NEIGHBOR AND PERSON THAT'S WALKED DOWN THE STREET FOR, FOR, FOR BUYING IT AND, AND DOING WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO TO IT. SO I JUST, I HAVE NO INTENTION OF DISRESPECTING THE, THE, THE, THE, THE HISTORY OF THE HOME OR ITS ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. I WANT NOTHING BUT TO MAKE IT BETTER. UM, BUT I, I HAVEN'T SEEN, THERE'S NOTHING THAT I'M ASKING FOR THAT DOESN'T ALREADY EXIST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND, AND ISN'T, YEAH. AND, AND THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT IT'S HISTORICALLY INACCURATE. ON YOUR COLOR CHART, WHICH COLOR ARE YOU PROPOSING FOR THE ROOF? SO, THE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, WE HAVEN'T SOURCED THE, THE, UH, WE HAVEN'T SOURCED THE, JOSH, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD PIPE IN, I HAVEN'T SOURCED THE BRAND OF MATERIAL THAT'S GONNA BE USED. 'CAUSE WE ARE WA WE ARE WAITING, UM, I, THERE ARE SEVERAL BRANDS AND THERE'S A CHARCOAL OR GRAPHITE. UM, UH, BARRY SAYS THE GRAPHITE THAT IS VERY SIMILAR TO THAT TOP LEFT PICTURE THAT WAS JUST ON THE, ON THE SCREEN PRIOR TO THE ONE THAT'S UP NOW. I'M SORRY, WHICH, AND I, AND I HAVE HAVE ANOTHER PICTURE, BUT IT DIDN'T MAKE THE CUT. IT, IT'S THE, IT'S THE EXAMPLE THAT SHE SENT IN WITH, UH, THE DIFFERENT COLORED ROOF. IT'S A, IT'S A REDDISH COLORED HOUSE AND IT DOES HAVE GRAPHITE ROOF ON IT. IT'S, UH, 2 0 8 KING WILLIAMS OWNED BY THE GOLDSTEIN, GERALD AND CHRISTINE GOLDSTEIN AT 2 0 8 KING WILLIAMS. NOW THAT'S AN, ACTUALLY THAT MO THAT COLOR OF ROOF IS ACTUALLY DARK BRONZE. IT'S THREE OR FOUR SHADES DARKER THAN, THAN THE, UH, I LOOKED UP, I, I DID A COLOR MATCH WITH THE BRANDS AND I, I PUT DARK BROWN STANDING SEAM. IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE PICTURE, ACTUALLY, THE PICTURE LOOKS VERY CLOSE. BUT IN PERSON, THAT ROOF IS MUCH DARKER THAN THE ONE THAT OKAY. I'M, UH, THAT I'M, UH, THAT, THAT WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT. BUT AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T SOURCED THOSE MATERIALS BECAUSE WE'RE IN THIS PRELIM PHASE. UM, IT'S A MATTE GRAY. IT'S, IT'S NOT, UM, IT'S NOT COPPER OR PURPLE OR RED OR BRONZE OR GREEN OR BLUE OR ANY OF THE OTHER COLORS ON ANY OF THE STREETS. OKAY. THAT, I MEAN, THE HOUSE IS GONNA BE PRETTY TRADITIONAL WHITE WITH BLACK TRIM. SO, UH, UH, CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UH, YES, SIR. I, I DON'T HAVE THIS DOCUMENT THAT'S BEING PRESENTED HERE. I GUESS IT MAY BE ON THE, ON THE, THE SHARED DRIVE. BUT I DO HAVE A CUP COLOR BOARD THAT'S BY LISA JENKINS COLOR GROUP. UM, I WONDER IF A STAFF COULD PULL THAT UP AND IF THE, IF THE APPLICANT OWNER COULD, UH, KIND OF INDICATE WHERE THEY'RE, WHERE THEY'RE LEANING, EVEN IF THAT'S NOT THE SPECIFIC SOURCE, UH, JUST TO GIVE US A SENSE ABOUT HOW, HOW DARK THEY'RE WANTING THIS, UH, ROOF TO BE. IT ACTUALLY HAS ONE VERY SIMILAR ON FILE. I, I SENT IT AFTER THE AGENDA WAS PUT OUT 'CAUSE THAT'S WHEN I WAS SEARCHING. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S EASIER. BUT RACHEL ACTUALLY HAS A, A, A, A, A PICTURE OF A VERY, VERY CLOSE [02:45:01] KIND OF WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR, IF THAT HELPS. SO WHAT WOULD HELP ME IS IF YOU, WE HAVE A, UM, SET OF 15 FAVORITES HERE THAT'S, UH, BEING INDICATED. ARE YOU THINKING SOMETHING LIKE THE CHELSEA GRAY OR THE KINDLE CHARCOAL? EVEN IF THAT'S JUST A PRELIMINARY DIRECTION, UH, I'D LIKE TO GET SOMETHING KIND OF ON RECORD THAT WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO HEAD. CAN YOU TELL ME AGAIN? THE, UH, UM, THE, UH OH, OH, LOOK AT THAT. THAT'S, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE JUST PAINT COLORS. UM, OH, THAT'S WHAT I, THOSE ARE THE EXTERIOR PAINT COVER COLORS. OKAY. UM, OR I CAN FIND, I CAN PULL UP CARPENTER, I CAN PULL UP WHAT YOU'RE, THOSE, THOSE MAY NOT BE ROOF COLORS, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A SENSE ABOUT KIND OF HOW, HOW DARK A GRAY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DOING THEM? IF I HAD TO GUESS, I WOULD SAY IT'S PROBABLY THE CLOSEST TO KINDLE CHARCOAL. BUT I HAVE SAMPLE ROOF COLORS IN THE FILE AS WELL. UM, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, UH, LET, LET ME, UH, LET ME ASK THE APPLICANT WHY, WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST GO WITH THE, WITH WITH THE MATERIAL VALUE, RIGHT? OF, OF THE GAL THE COLOR VALUE OF JUST YOUR TYPICAL GAL BLOOM OR, OR STRAIGHTFORWARD TIN, IN MY OPINION MM-HMM. , UM, IT, AND, AND, AND IN, IN MY OPINION, UH, THE GAL BLOOM COLOR DOES NOT LOOK GOOD IN A WHITE, WITH A WHITE HOUSE WITH BLACK TRIM. WE ASKED MY HUSBAND, HE SAYS, IT DOESN'T LOOK THAT BAD. I'M SPENDING $750,000 TO REMODEL THIS HOUSE. AND NOT BAD IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. SEE THE GAL, THE GAL BLOOM IT, IT, IT MARRIES THE BLACK, THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THE BLACK TRIM MUCH, MUCH BETTER, YOU KNOW? RIGHT. BUT, BUT AFTER ABOUT SIX YEARS, THE GAL LOOM WILL LOOK LIKE THAT, LIKE THAT CHELSEA GRAY. IT WON'T BE THE . I'M, I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE PATINA. I'M ACTUALLY A REAL ESTATE BROKER. I'VE SOLD SOLAR HOUSES IN KING WILLIAM AND, AND, AND MONTE VISTA AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS. UM, SO I'M, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS. I HAVE A GAL BLOOM, OR A TINTED GAL BLOOM, UH, ROOF ON MY HOUSE AND OTHER PROPERTIES AND ALSO OTHER PROPERTIES THAT I OWN, HAVE A GAL METAL ROOF ON 1515 EAST SOUTH CROSS, ANOTHER HISTORIC PROPERTY I OWN. UM, SO I, I'M, I'M, I'VE, I'VE GOT, I, I, I AS, AS, AS MUCH EXPERIENCE OR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT, ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR PRODUCT AS PROBABLY ANY OF US, IT IS, IT, IT LITERALLY IS JUST A PERSONAL PREFERENCE. THOSE PRODUCTS ARE ALSO NOW TINTED AS GAL BLOOM REPLACED, GALVANIZED, IT HAS THE PROTECTION IN IT SO THAT IT DOESN'T PATINA AS QUICKLY OR IT DOESN'T RUST MM-HMM. . UM, BUT NO, IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S PURELY AESTHETIC. IT LOOK, A DARKER ROOF LOOKS BETTER ON THE HOUSE. AND IF I, I GUESS IF IT'S, IF I'M NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT, THEN WE WILL PROBABLY GO BACK TO A SHINGLED ROOF, WHICH I DON'T WANT IT. I'M, I'M LOOKING AT THE COMPLETE AESTHETICS AND, AND MAKING THIS HOME AS BEAUTIFUL AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE AND BE THE STAR OF MADISON STREET. LIKE IT CAN BE. WELL, MI MR. CARPENTER, THE, JUST, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE HAVING THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE COLOR, THE, THE, THE THING THAT I JUST SUBMIT IS THAT IN THE, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY'RE USING THE STANDING SEA METAL ALL OVER THE BUILDINGS. RIGHT NOW THEY'RE USING 'EM ON THE WALLS, THEY'RE USING 'EM. RIGHT. AND THEN NEW CONSTRUCTION AND THE COLOR, THE COLOR TINS ARE CONFLICTING IN STYLISTICALLY. IT'S NOT SO MUCH FOR A ROOF THAT IT'S BAD. IT'S THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH MODERN BUILDINGS THAT ARE USING THOSE POUNDS FOR WALLS, THE ONLY THING THAT SEPARATES ITSELF, IN MY OPINION, IT IT'S, IT'S A PURE MATERIAL WITHOUT ANY PAIN ON IT. JUST, JUST AS YOU'RE ASKING YOUR QUESTIONS, IT'S JUST MY, YEAH. SO, SO ONE, ONE PRODUCT YOU MIGHT WANT TO INVESTIGATE, BECAUSE I, I UNDERSTAND WITH THE, UH, PRE, WITH THE, WITH THE GAL LOOM, IT WILL BE SHINY FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS UNTIL IT DULLS OUT. THEY DO MAKE A PRE WEATHERED GAL BLOOM THAT IS KIND OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT. CHELSEA GRAY OR BETWEEN CHELSEA GRAY, THE, AND THE KINDLE GRAY. I, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT PRE, PRE WEATHER GAL BLOOM IS, IS VERY SIMILAR TO, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE COLOR THAT I HAVE SELECTED OFF OF A COLOR CHART. IT'S, IT'S, UH, I IT'S, IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY, IT'S IT'S FIRST COUSIN THAT YOU'RE THAT'S EXACTLY, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE GOING FOR. I DON'T THINK IT'S MUCH DARKER. I WOULD PROBABLY DEFER TO, UH, IT'S, AND IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SAME THING, LOOKING, SAME THING ON THE, UH, RIDGE, IS THAT THE PRE WEATHER GALVAO YOU'RE LOOKING AT THERE? THERE'S PROBABLY SOMEWHERE, IT'S PROBABLY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN PRE WEATHER, GALVAO AND CHARCOAL. OKAY. SO WHAT WE'RE GOING, MS. CHAIRMAN, LET ME SEE IF I CAN ATTEMPT A MOTION HERE. UH, YOU KNOW, I I'M CONVINCED THAT DORMER IS, IS, IT MAY HAVE BEEN ADDED IN AT A LATER TIME. THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROPORTIONS THAT SEEM TO SQUAT AND STRANGE FOR, FOR, UH, THE REST OF THE, OF THE HOUSE. UM, I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF IT WERE, IF THERE WAS A [02:50:01] DORMER AT SOME POINT UP THERE, BUT THAT WHAT'S THERE DOESN'T STRIKE ME AS AS ORIGINAL. UM, SO I WOULD SAY, UM, UH, MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE, MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO FOR ROOF REPLACEMENT WITH A STANDING SCENE MEETING THE, UH, THE STAFF'S REQUIREMENTS AND, UM, UH, ATTAINING TO A COLOR EQUIVALENT TO, UH, PRE WEATHERED THE GLOO. I'LL SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE, FERNANDEZ? AYE. S AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. SOAN. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. RU AYE. ZER. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, [23. 21-4852 Address/Description: 621 HAYS ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-328 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Jonathan Sanchez Request: Fenestration modifications, door removal, repair and maintenance City Council Dist.: 2 ] MOVING RIGHT ALONG. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 23 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 328, UH, 6 21 A. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE REPAIR EXISTING SIDING AND PAINT THE STRUCTURE. TWO, TO REMOVE THE WESTERNMOST FRONT DOOR AND REPLACE WITH SIDING. THREE TO PERFORM FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS ON THE WEST FACADE, INCLUDING THE REMOVAL OF AN ORIGINAL WINDOW AND THE RELOCATION OF TWO EXISTING WINDOWS. AND FOUR, PERFORM FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS ON THE EAST FACADE, INCLUDING INCLUDING THE REMOVAL OF TWO HISTORIC WINDOWS AND THE INSTALLATION OF A CONTEMPORARILY SIZED WINDOW. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, SIDING REPAIR AND PAINTING WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE EXISTING BRICK CHIMNEY REMAIN UNPAINTED. TWO STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. THE REMOVAL OF THE WESTERNMOST FRONT DOOR BASED ON FINDING C STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE EXISTING DOOR OPENING REMAIN IN PLACE. THE EXISTING NON-ORIGINAL DOOR MAY BE REPLACED WITH THE DOOR THAT THAT'S WOOD AND THAT MATCHES THE PROFILE OF THE EXISTING CRAFTSMAN DOOR. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE. ADMINISTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO THE WEST FACADE BASED ON FINDING. D STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT ALL HISTORIC WINDOW OPENINGS REMAIN AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST. AND FOUR STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FOUR. FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO THE EAST FACADE BASED ON FINDING E STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT ALL HISTORIC WINDOW OPENINGS REMAIN AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST, AND THAT NO NEW WINDOW OPENINGS BE CREATED. STEPHANIE IS, UH, READY WITH THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER AND APPLICANT, UH, JONATHAN AND RICHARD. UM, AND WE ALSO HAVE, UH, CITIZEN COMMENTS TO BE READ WHEN THE COMMISSION IS READY FOR THOSE. THANK YOU. AND JONATHAN, DID YOU WANNA INTRODUCE YOURSELF? YES. HELLO, MY NAME IS JONATHAN SANCHEZ WITH COOL ON A AND C. I WAS JUST, UH, I KNOW I DID TRY TO REMOVE ONE OF THE FRONT DOORS BECAUSE IT WASN'T THERE BEFORE. I KNOW THAT WAS NEVER, UH, ACTUALLY SUPPOSED TO BE A DUPLEX AND THEY EVER, THEY NEVER PULLED A PERMIT FOR THAT, AND WE WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO GO BACK TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME TO WHERE IT'S, UH, ONE DOOR AGAIN. OKAY. WE DO HAVE, LET'S SEE, UM, SEVERAL ISSUES HERE AND THEN WE HAVE SOME CITIZEN COMMENTS. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO TAKE THESE ONE AT A TIME, GET THE CITIZEN COMMENTS FIRST AND THEN, UH, HAVE MR. SANCHEZ ADDRESS THE CITIZEN AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS AT THAT TIME. UH, WELL, IF THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE, I COULD GO AHEAD AND READ, UH, THE CITIZEN COMMENTS. AND THEN, UM, I GUESS MAYBE TO, UM, TO PROMPT OUR CONVERSATION, I COULD ALSO, UM, GO OVER STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND, UH, EXPLAIN ANY FINDINGS OR ANYTHING THAT ARE NEEDED, UM, IF THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. UH, SO, UH, UP FIRST CITIZEN COMMENTS. UH, THIS, THIS COMMENT IS FROM THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. WE SUPPORT STAFF AS ORIGINAL DOOR AND WINDOWS, THEIR PLACEMENT AND OPENINGS AND SORRY, WE SUPPORT STAFF AS ORIGINAL DOOR AND WINDOW, THEIR PLACEMENT AND OPENING SIZES OR CHARACTER DEFINING ELEMENTS OF THE CRAFTSMAN BUNGALOWS, ESPECIALLY FOR THIS [02:55:01] LONGSTANDING DUPLEX. UM, SO IN REGARDS TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED TO REMOVE THE FRONT FACING DOOR, UH, ONE OF THE FRONT DOORS THAT FACES THE STREET. UM, STAFF DID RESEARCH IN REGARDS TO SANBORN MAPS AND CITY DIRECTORIES. UH, WHILE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE POINTING TOWARD THE DOOR BEING ORIGINAL, ONE OF THE DOORS NOT BEING ORIGINAL STAFF DID NOT FIND INFORMATION THAT ALLUDED TO THE FRONT FACADE BEING, OR STAFF DID NOT FIND INFORMATION THAT POINTED TO ANY OTHER OR ORIENTATION OF THE FRONT FACADE OR ANY OTHER FACADE ARRANGEMENT. UH, THEREFORE, UH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE EXISTING DOORS REMAIN AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST. UH, IN REGARDS TO FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO BOTH THE EAST AND THE WEST FACADE, THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSED TO REMOVE ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS AS WELL AS TO RELOCATE EXISTING OPENINGS. UH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING WHAT THE GUIDELINES RECOMMEND THAT ALL ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS BE MAINTAINED AS THEY CURRENTLY EXIST. UH, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF MODIFICATIONS. UH, AND HERE WITH THE ELEVATION THAT YOU SEE, UH, ON THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE, UM, WE MAY NEED TO TOGGLE BETWEEN, UH, I BELIEVE BETWEEN PAGES EIGHT AND NINE, UH, THAT SHOW, UH, WHAT'S EXISTING AND WHAT'S PROPOSED. UH, BUT THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED ADMINISTRATION MODIFICATIONS THAT WOULD RESULT IN ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS BEING REMOVED, AND THEN NEW WINDOW OPENINGS BEING CREATED IN ORIGINAL FACADES, BOTH OF WHICH ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. MR. CHAIR, I GOT A QUESTION FOR EDWARD. LET'S LET MR. SANCHEZ RESPOND TO THOSE COMMENTS. OKAY? YES, SIR. SO, I KNOW THAT SOME OF THE STUFF WAS ACTUALLY, WE WERE TRYING TO REUSE SOME OF THE WINDOWS AND JUST RELOCATE IT. WE WEREN'T GONNA GET RID OF ANYTHING. WE WERE GONNA JUST, UH, TRY TO KEEP THE WHOLE STRUCTURE AND THE LOOK OF EVERYTHING TO WHERE YOU WOULD NEVER REALLY BE ABLE TO TELL THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY SOMETHING DONE. I KNOW PREVIOUSLY, YES, THEY, THEY NEVER ACTUALLY PULLED A PERMIT TO TURN THAT INTO A, A DUPLEX, AND THEY WENT AND DID THAT. 'CAUSE I KNOW PREVIOUSLY SOMEBODY ELSE THAT LIVED THERE WAS ACTUALLY, UH, IT WAS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME BEFORE, AND I DON'T THINK THAT THE, UH, I, IT, IT WAS NEVER REALLY ZONED FOR A DUPLEX, UH, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, EDWARD, CAN YOU GO TO THE, THE PICTURE OF, OF THE FRONT FACADE? UH, YES, SIR. WE'LL GO TO THAT. WE CAN ZOOM IN ON IT. YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE COMMENT THAT, THAT, THAT YOU MADE WITH REGARD TO INSPECTION OF THE, THE MAPS AND ALL THAT, UM, IT'S OBVIOUS HERE THAT ONE OF THOSE DOORS IS NOT THE REAL DOOR. RIGHT? THEY DON'T MATCH THOSE TWO DOORS. RIGHT? THE THING THAT THROWS IT OFF IS THE FACT THAT THERE'S TWO WINDOWS SYMMETRICALLY PLACED. IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THAT THIS WASN'T ORIGINALLY A DUPLEX, BUT IF THE EVIDENCE SAYS THAT THERE WAS ONE, UH, THAT IT WAS ONE UNIT, THAT STILL DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE WEREN'T TWO DOORS, RIGHT? BUT THE, THE ONE DOOR IS SLIGHTLY SMALLER, THE TRIM BOARDS ARE LOWER, AND I THINK IT GIVES YOU ENOUGH VISUAL EVIDENCE TO, TO MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT PERHAPS THERE WASN'T TWO DOORS. AND THAT ASSUMPTION, I WOULD THINK SHOULD WEIGH TOWARD THE, THE, THE APPLICANT'S, UM, UH, HISTORY AS OPPOSED TO AN ASSUMPTION THERE BEING NO, UH, EVIDENCE. AND THAT'S FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINE THAT, THAT THE GUIDELINE DOESN'T NECESSARILY SAY THAT, THAT THE APPLICANT'S EVIDENCE IS NOT, UM, CREDIBLE. RIGHT. WELL, COMMISSIONER, UH, STAFF IS, UH, SIMPLY AS, AS ALWAYS, WE TRY TO, UH, COMMENT AND RECOMMEND WHAT THE GUIDELINES SAY. UM, AND SO THE GUIDELINES FOR EXTERIOR MAINTENANCE AND ALTERATIONS NOTE, UH, PRESERVE HISTORIC DOORS INCLUDING HARDWARE, FAN LIGHTS, SIDELIGHTS, POLISHERS, AND THEN TABLATURES PRESERVE EXISTING WINDOW AND DOOR OPENINGS. UH, SO WITH THE GUIDELINES SAYING PRESERVE EXISTING WINDOW AND DOOR OPENINGS, UM, STAFF IS FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES. UM, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSION, IF, IF THE COMMISSION SEES FIT, CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION ON, UH, WHICH DOOR MAY BE ORIGINAL, WHICH [03:00:01] DOOR MAY NOT BE ORIGINAL. UH, BUT IN STAFF'S RESEARCH STAFF DID NOT FIND ANY INFORMATION THAT POINTED TO THIS STRUCTURE NOT BEING A DUPLEX. UH, THIS STRUCTURE IN STAFF'S RESEARCH, THE FIRST, THE FIRST SANBORN MAP THAT STAFF WAS ABLE TO FIND THIS STRUCTURE LOCATED ON WAS INDEED THE 1951 SANBORN MAP. AND FROM WHAT STAFF HAS FOUND, IN ADDITION TO, UH, UH, CITY DIRECTORIES, UH, THERE WERE TWO ADDRESSES, UH, NOTED HERE AT THIS ADDRESS. UH, SO BASED ON THAT, IN THE GUIDELINES SAYING PRESERVE EXISTING WINDOW AND DOOR OPENINGS, UM, THIS IS THE RECOMMENDATION THAT STAFF HAS PRODUCED. AND, AND, AND EDWARD, I APPRECIATE THAT, THAT EXPLANATION. THE, THE ONLY POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT THE, THE, THE COMMENT THAT IS SUPPORTS THE DOUBLE DOORS IS MADE IN THE CONTEXT OF THERE NOT BEING ANYTHING THAT SAYS THAT IT WASN'T ORIGINALLY A DUPLEX OR A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING. NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT LAST PIECE OF THE GUIDELINE THAT SAYS PRESERVE EXISTENCE. SO IT, IT, I MEAN, I I, THE WAY THAT YOU JUST PRESENTED IT, AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, UM, WITH RESPECT TO WHAT THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING, I THINK IT GIVES THE APPLICANT A LOT OF WEIGHT AND JUST TO THE APPLICANT, I THINK IN, IN PRESENTING IT, I THINK PART OF WHAT, WHAT YOU SHOULD, UH, QUALIFY IS YOUR, UM, YOUR VISUAL INSPECTION OF WHAT WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. CHAIR, I LOOKED UP THE GOOGLE AND THOSE DOORS WERE EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE. I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS PICTURE IS ACTUALLY THE ONLY PICTURES, UM, THAT DOESN'T SHOW EXACTLY SAME SIDE DOOR. SO WE JUST TO COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, UH, COMMENT, UM, I MEAN, I JUST FEEL LIKE WE, WE, WE, IF WE ARE GONNA RELY ON ONE PICTURE, THEN I MEAN EITHER D R C OR A SITE VISIT BECAUSE THERE'S INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET OR STAFF. I FEEL LIKE THAT IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER. SO, UM, I, I SUPPORT ALL OF STAFF'S FINDINGS AND THE APPLICANT WAS, UH, MENTIONING THAT THEY WANTED TO MOVE SOME WINDOWS AND RELOCATE. IF, IF THAT'S THE CASE, I ALSO SUGGESTED D R C BECAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT HERE ON THE DRAWINGS AND WHICH WINDOWS YOU'RE GONNA RELOCATE, WHERE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT AS A, LIKE, AS AN ITEM, I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT THAT. UM, MORE DETAILED CHAIRMAN, THIS IS MOTION CARPENTER. I, I CONCUR WITH THAT. I THINK YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REALLY CAN'T BE HAGGLED OUT THROUGH LOOKING AT THE MATERIAL THAT WE HAVE HERE. I, I'D WANNA SEE THE, THE PROFILE, THE SIDING ADJACENT TO BOTH SIDES OF THE DOOR TO DETERMINE WHETHER THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CENTRAL DOOR THAT THEN GOT RELOCATED OR IT WAS ALWAYS A DUPLEX AND HAD TWO DOORS. UH, SO I, I WOULD MOVE FOR A, UH, D R C SITE VISIT AT THE EARLIEST CONVENIENCE. COMMISSIONER GRU, I'LL SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO A D R C SITE VISIT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. HERNANDEZ? AYE IF AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. GROUP C AND ZER AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AND A, UH, NOTE TO MR. SANCHEZ, IF YOU'RE DOING INTERIOR WORK ON THE HOUSE, UM, PULLING OFF THE INTERIOR SHEET ROCK AT THESE TWO DOORS MIGHT GIVE SOME MORE INDICATION AS TO WHETHER BOTH OF 'EM ARE ORIGINAL OR THIS FRONT FACADE HAS BEEN REFRAMED THAT WE CAN LOOK AT AT THE, UH, SITE VISIT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UM, [24. 21-4836 Address/Description: 909 N HACKBERRY ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-324 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Michael Garansuay Request: Construction of two, 2-story residential structures and two, 1-story residential structures City Council Dist.: 2 ] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 24 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 3 24 9 0 9 NORTH HACKBERRY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT TWO, TWO STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES AND TWO ONE STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES ON THE VACANT LOT AT 9 0 9 NORTH HACKBERRY LOCATED WITHIN THE DICK WHI HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH Z WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE SETBACK OF BOTH PRIMARY STRUCTURES ON NORTH HACKBERRY BE INCREASED TO BE GREATER THAN THE SETBACK ON NORTH HACKBERRY OF THE STRUCTURE AT 5 27. HAYES IS NOTED IN FINDING E TWO THAT THE APPLICANT CONFIRMED THAT FOUNDATION HEIGHTS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES IS NOTED IN FINDING H THREE THAT THE APPLICANT CONFIRMED CONSISTENCY WITH THE GUIDELINES IN REGARDS TO LIGHT COVERAGE IS NOTED IN FINDING L FOUR. THAT BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING FEATURE A SMOOTH FINISH BOARDS THAT ARE 12 INCHES WIDE AND BATTENS THAT ARE APPROXIMATELY TWO INCHES IN WIDTH. AND THAT THE PROPOSED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS ADHERE TO STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN THE APPLICABLE [03:05:01] CITATION FILED THAT BOTH DRIVEWAYS NOT EXCEED 10 FEET IN WIDTH PER THE GUIDELINES. AND THAT CURB CUTS BE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE CURB CUT AND DRIVEWAY ON FE MAY BE SEPARATED THROUGH THE USE OF LANDSCAPING ELEMENTS TO MAINTAIN A 10 FOOT LIFT AND SIX, THE FRONT YARD FENCE THAT THE FRONT YARD FENCE, EXCUSE ME, THAT THE FRONT YARD FEATURE AT LEAST 50% GROUND COVER. THAT FRONT YARD FENCING NOT EXCEED FOUR FEET IN HEIGHT. THAT PRIVACY FENCING NOT EXCEED, EXTEND PAST THE FRONT FACADE OF THE TWO STORY STRUCTURES AND THE DRIVEWAY GATES TO BE SET BACK BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE TWO TWO STORY STRUCTURES. A FOUNDATION INSPECTION IS TO BE SCHEDULED WITH O H P STAFF TO ENSURE THAT FOUNDATION SETBACKS AND HEIGHTS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROVED DESIGN. THE INSPECTION IS TO OCCUR AFTER THE INSTALLATION OF FORM WORK AND PRIOR TO THE INSTALLATION OF FOUNDATION MATERIALS. RACHEL IS HERE WITH THE APPLICANT, UH, MR. MICHAEL ENSWAY. UH, AND THEN FOR THE COMMISSION'S KNOWLEDGE, WE ALSO HAVE, UH, CITIZEN COMMENTS THAT ARE TO, TO BE READ INTO THE RECORD. UM, AND I CAN READ THOSE WHENEVER THE COMMISSION'S READY. THANK YOU. AND YES, I'M ON THE LINE WITH MR. SWAY. WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE COMMISSIONERS? SURE THING. UH, THANK YOU. O H B STAFF AND COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS MIKE SWAY. MY WIFE TERESA AND I ARE THE OWNERS OF 9 0 9 HACKBERRY. AND I'M JOINED TODAY WITH MY ARCHITECT BRIAN SWELL. I'D FIRST LIKE TO GIVE A QUICK HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY AND THEN A SHORT DESCRIPTION OF THE PROPERTY IN RELATION TO THE BLOCK. UH, WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY IN LATE 2018 AND STARTED THE DESIGN PROCESS IN, UH, FIRST PART OF 2019. WE WORKED VERY CLOSE WITH THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS, VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS AND THE DIGNITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THEIR ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE TO GET TO THIS POINT. THROUGH SEVERAL DESIGN RENDITIONS AND MEETINGS WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS, UH, O H P AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE WERE ABLE TO COME UP WITH A LAYOUT THAT WAS MET WITH OVERWHELMING SUPPORT AND APPROVAL THROUGH BOTH THE REZONING AND THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL PROCESS. AND WE CONTINUE TO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF THE NUITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. THIS PROPERTY IS UNIQUE IN THAT IT SITS ON A CORNER OF HACKBERRY AND FAIN WAY, SAME WAY IS A CITY ALLEY WITH, UH, OR SORRY, IN BETWEEN HAY STREET AND LAMAR STREET. UH, THE PROPERTY SITS IN BETWEEN 5 27 HAY STREET, WHICH IS A NON HISTORIC HOME AND ADDRESSES HAY STREET AND A NON HISTORIC COMMERCIAL PROPERTY THAT ADDRESSES HACKBERRY AND IS CURRENTLY OPERATED AT THE C STORE. IN THIS STRETCH OF HACKBERRY BETWEEN HAYES AND LAMAR, THERE ARE FIVE HOMES. THREE OF THE HOMES ADDRESS HACKBERRY. ONE ADDRESSES HAYES AND ANOTHER ADDRESSES LAMAR. WE PREPARED AN EXHIBIT SHOWING THE BLOCK AND EXISTING SETBACKS, AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE EXHIBIT, WE CAN GIVE THOSE ADDRESSES AND SETBACKS WHEN YOU'RE READY FOR THEM. WE FEEL WE ARE NOT GROSSLY EXCEEDING OR OUTLINING IN RELATION TO THE EXISTING CONDITIONS FOR THIS BLOCK. WE WERE VERY PLEASED TO RECEIVE THE LATEST REVIEW FOR FINAL APPROVAL, COME BACK FROM O H P WITH THE RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL BASED ON SIX STIPULATIONS BEING SATISFIED. WE ARE ACCEPTING FIVE OF THOSE STIPULATIONS TODAY, BUT WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER THAT THE SETBACKS ON THE PLANS BE APPROVED AS DRAWN. ALSO, WANT TO GIVE A COMMENT ON STIPULATION THREE AND MENTIONED O H B STAFF. THAT LOT COVERAGE IS SHOWN ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE PLANS IN THE TOP LEFT CORNER AND IS AT 46.6%. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, AND PLEASE LET US KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, SHELLY, HAVE CITIZEN COMMENTS? YES, I'LL READ THOSE NOW. UH, SO THESE COMMENTS ARE FROM THE DIGNITY WITTY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. WE SUPPORT INFILL BUT DON'T SUPPORT A C O A WHILE SIGNIFICANT STIPULATIONS REMAIN UNMET OR INCOMPLETE. FOR EXAMPLE, THE HACKBERRY SETBACKS ARE NOT CONFIRMED RELATIVE TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. TYPICALLY, A FRONT SETBACK IS GREATER THAN A SIDE SETBACK. ALSO, LIGHT COVERAGE CALCULATIONS HAVE NOT BEEN PROVIDED. CURB CUT DRIVEWAY WIDTHS ARE NOT DIMENSION, AND THE WINDOW SECTION DETAIL FOR INSTALLATION E ONE SLASH A SIX 11 DOES NOT CONFORM TO O H P WINDOW STANDARDS. THESE ARE CRITICAL COMPONENTS FOR COMPATIBLE AND NEW CONSTRUCTION AND SHOULD BE CONFIRMED. UM, AND THAT PART OF THE COMMENT IS CUT OFF, SO I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, BUT THAT CONCLUDES THE, UH, THE SUBMITTED COMMENT. OKAY, THANK YOU. [03:10:01] MR. CHAIR. CAN STAFF ADDRESS THE WINDOW, UH, THE COMMENT FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE WINDOWS? LET ME, UH, LET ME PULL UP THE SPECIFIC SHEET, UM, SO THAT I CAN REFERENCE THAT TO LAUREN AND WE'LL LOOK AT IT JUST TO THE APPLICANT. UM, WHEN YOU WERE MENTIONING THAT COVERAGE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS, RECOMMENDATION, STIPULATION THAT STAFF WAS, UH, REFERRING TO WAS MORE ON THE FRONT YARD FEATURE. JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE. YEAH, WE ARE GOOD. WE ARE GOOD WITH, UH, BOTH. OKAY. SO THE ONLY STIPULATION IS REALLY THE FRONT SETBACK THAT WE'LL DISCUSS. AND THE NAME COMMENTS. OKAY, SORRY. SO WE WE'RE, WE'RE PULLING, I'M SORRY, WE'RE PULLING, UH, THE WINDOW DETAIL UP NOW. UM, SO, UM, IN REGARDS TO THIS, THE WINDOW THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AS A WINDOW THAT, UM, STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF MANY TIMES. UH, IN ADDITION, IT'S A WINDOW THAT THE COMMISSION HAS APPROVED MANY TIMES AND WE FIND THAT WINDOW TO BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS. UM, IN STIPULATION, UM, SORRY, I'M LOOKING HERE IN STIPULATION FOUR, UH, THAT STIPULATION READS THAT BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING FEATURE SMOOTH FINISH BOARDS THAT ARE 12 INCHES WIDE AND BATTENS THAT ARE APPROXIMATELY TWO INCHES IN WIDTH AND THAT THE PROPOSED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS ADHERE STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS ARE FOR WINDOWS AND CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN THE APPLICABLE CITATIONS. UM, THE APPLICABLE CITATIONS DO POINT OUT, UM, THAT THERE SHOULD BE A MINIMUM OF TWO INCHES IN DEPTH BETWEEN THE FRONT FACADE OF THE WINDOW TRIM AND THE FRONT FACE OF THE TOP WINDOW SASH. THIS MUST BE ACCOMPLISHED BY RECESSING THE WINDOW SUFFICIENTLY WITHIN THE OPENING OR WITH THE INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL WINDOW TRIM TO ADD THICKNESS. ALL WINDOWS SHOULD BE SUPPLIED IN A BLOCK FRAME AND EXCLUDE NAILING FINS, WHICH LIMIT THE ABILITY TO SUFFICIENTLY RECESS THE WINDOWS. UM, STAFF PROVIDES THESE STANDARDS TO APPLICANTS, UH, WHEN WE PROVIDE THEM WITH OUR, UH, GENERAL COMMENTS WHEN WE PROVIDE THEM WITH A RECOMMENDATION, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THEY DO LOOK AT A, AT STAFF'S COMMENTS AND SAY, I AGREE TO THESE MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS, THAT THEY ARE INDEED AWARE OF THESE STANDARDS. UH, SO WITH THE APPLICANT CONFIRMING THAT THEY'RE GONNA MEET THAT STIPULATION, STAFF UNDERSTANDS THAT EACH, UH, EACH POINT OF THOSE SPECIFICATIONS WILL BE MET, INCLUDING THE INSTALLATION DEPTH. THANK YOU. UM, AND THEN DO WE HAVE A SITE PLAN WITH THE FRONT SETBACKS WITH NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES? SO WE'LL START OFF WITH, UM, BEAR WITH ME. SO WE'LL START OFF WITH, UH, I GUESS PAGE 12 OF THE P D F. UM, THE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURE IS REFERENCED ON A NUMBER OF, UH, A NUMBER OF DOCUMENTS, BUT PAGE 12 IS PROBABLY GONNA BE ABLE TO SHOW IT BEST. UH, THE APPLICANT DID PROVIDE AN ADDITIONAL DOCUMENT, UM, HOWEVER, AS YOU ALL KNOW, UH, WE'RE NOT ABLE TO, UH, RECEIVE INFORMATION OR SHOW INFORMATION THAT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THE PUBLISHED AGENDA. UH, HOWEVER, UM, THE, THE DIMENSIONS THAT ARE PROVIDED ON THAT, UH, ESSENTIALLY THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A SETBACK FOR THE TWO, TWO STORY STRUCTURES, THAT IT'S SEVEN FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. THE STRUCTURE AT 5 27 HAZE FEATURES A SETBACK THAT IS SEVEN FEET, NINE INCHES. SO THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A SETBACK THAT IS SLIGHTLY SHALLOWER WITHIN THE SETBACKS THAT ARE EXISTING. UM, IT IS INDEED A FACT THAT THE STRUCTURE AT 5 27 HAZE, UH, FACES OR FRONTS 5 27 HAZE, THAT THAT IS INDEED A SIDE SETBACK. UH, HOWEVER, UH, STAFF IS CONSISTENTLY RECOMMENDED FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT REGARDLESS IF IT'S A SIDE SETBACK OR A FRONT SETBACK, UH, WHEN A STRUCTURE IS AT A CORNER THAT THE ADJACENT LOT IS BEING BUILT ON DOES NOT FEATURE A FRONT SETBACK THAT EXCEEDS THE SIDE SETBACK OF THE CORNER STRUCTURE, WHICH IS THE CASE HERE. RIGHT. WHICH IT, WHICH IT FOLLOWS WHAT YOU'RE REC WHAT YOU'RE, UH, WHAT WELL, SO WHAT STAFF WOULD, WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING IS THAT THE SETBACK FOR THE TWO NEW STRUCTURES BE SLIGHTLY INCREASED SO THAT IT WOULD BE DEEPER AS PROPOSED. IT'S SLIGHTLY SHALLOWER THAN THE SIDE SETBACK OF THE STRUCTURE. AT 5 27, HAYES STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE SETBACK BE INCREASED ON HACKBERRY STREET, CORRECT? CORRECT. NOT ON FEIN WAY. JUST [03:15:01] ON HACKBERRY STREET, CORRECT. ON HACKBERRY. THAT'S WHAT I WAS WONDERING BECAUSE THE APPLICANT WAS MENTIONING THAT THEY HAD SUBMITTED A, A SITE LINE, YOU KNOW, SHOWING THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, AND THAT'S USUALLY WHAT WE LOOK FOR, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE LOOK AT THE BLOCK AND WE WANNA SEE, OKAY, HOW ARE THOSE TWO NEW PROPERTIES, FRONT SETBACKS COMPARED TO THE OTHER PROPERTIES? UM, AND THIS REALLY, I MEAN, JUST BY VISUAL OF THE POWERPOINT, BUT IS THERE A WAY MAYBE WE CAN DO A MOTION AND THEN JUST TO KEEP THE STIPULATION, BUT HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION WITH JUST THE FRONT SETBACK? OR IS THERE SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, THE APPLICANT WILL LIKE TO MAYBE, UM, MOVE TO THE NEXT MEETING SO WE CAN GET MORE DETAILS ON THE FRONT BACK PROPERTY? UH, UH, I'M SORRY. I CAN PROVIDE A STAFF COMMENT, UM, BUT I'LL, I'LL LET, UH, THE APPLICANT AND THEN COMMISSIONERS, UH, SPEAK. I'M SORRY. YEAH, I'M, I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE SOME SETBACK. UM, AS EDWARD MENTIONED, 5 27 HAYES, UH, PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH, THAT SETBACK IS SEVEN FOOT NINE INCHES. UM, MOVING ACROSS THE STREET ON HACKBERRY, UM, 9 0 6 HACKBERRY AND 9 0 2 HACKBERRY ARE EIGHT FEET WITH A SETBACK, UM, CADDY CORNER TO FA TO OUR PROPERTY. AND NINE 16 HACKBERRY. THE FRONT SETBACK IS FIVE FEET, SIX INCHES, AND THEN MOVING FURTHER NORTH, THERE'S A VACANT LOT AND THEN 5 0 2 LAMAR, WHICH HAS, UH, TWO DIFFERENT SETBACKS. THE, THE FRONT, OR I'M SORRY, THE SIDE, UM, SETBACK IS FOUR FEET AND THEN IT, UH, THE HOUSE GOES TO THE REAR, IT DOG LAYS IN AND BECOMES SEVEN FEET. SO JUST BY THE 5 27, THE NINE 16 AND NINE 19, YOU'RE STILL, YOU'RE NOT, I MEAN, THE GUIDELINES SAY YOU SHOULD HAVE A GREATER SETBACK THAN THOSE PROPERTIES. SO ONE IS 7, 9, 1 IS EIGHT. SO DO YOU UNDERSTAND, UM, WHY STAFF IS ASKING TO BE GREATER? IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU CAN ADJUST YOUR DRAWINGS? CAN YOU ADJUST YOUR DESIGN FOR THAT? WELL, THERE'S A TREE IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT. IN ADDITION, UM, WHEN WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, PARKING, UM, WAS A HOT BUTTON. AND SO WE CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE WOULD HAVE TWO RESERVED FOR THE FRONT AND THEN ONE REVERED, UH, RESERVED FOR THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, UH, IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. , EDWARD, CAN YOU GO TO THE SITE PLAN? SEE, IT, IT, IT APPEARS THAT IN LOOKING AT THE GENERAL MASTER PLAN, RIGHT? MASTER SITE PLAN, IT'S A VERY WELL BALANCED PIECE OF PROPERTY, RIGHT? EVERYTHING SEEMS TO WORK WELL AS A, AS A UNIT, RIGHT? AS A UNIT. AND THEN LOOKING AT THE, AT THE, UM, PROPOSED ELEVATIONS, RIGHT? THEY REALLY ARE, UH, AN APPROPRIATE ADDITION TO HACKBERRY, WHICH HACKBERRY, YOU KNOW, REALLY NEEDS THE INSPIRATION. UM, COMMISSIONER GRU, IT, IT, I, I JUST, IN, IN TERMS OF THE, THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE, ABOUT THE SETBACK IN THE FRONT, UH, THIS, THEY'RE NOT IN THE SAME ORIENTATION AS THE OTHER HOUSES, UH, ON, I MEAN, TO THE, I I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TO THE SOUTH, BUT IT SEEMS THAT THE ONLY ONE THAT WOULD KNOW WOULD BE THE GUIDELINE, THE VIS THE VISUAL. THE, THE, THE, THE, THE PERSON DRIVING DOWN THE STREET WOULD ONLY SEE THIS BEAUTIFUL DEVELOPMENT. I THINK THERE'S AN EXAMPLE FURTHER UP ON, UH, HACKBERRY AS YOU GET TOWARD NOLAN, WHERE THERE'S ANOTHER SET OF NEW HOUSES THAT, THAT THEY'RE DEFINITELY NEW. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU RECALL THAT WE HAD THAT FENCE SITUATION WHERE THEY COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THE FENCE BECAUSE THE HOUSES WERE ORIENTED REAL WEIRD, REAL WEIRD, WE'RE WEIRD, AND WE HAD TO LIKE REALLY HELP TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO A, A FENCE. THIS IS SIMILAR TO THAT. I, I HOPE THAT WE COULD CONSIDER ENABLING, UH, THIS PROJECT TO, TO GET BOOTS ON THE GROUND AND, AND, AND BEGIN TO WORK AS SUBMITTED. UH, FOOD FOR THOUGHT? MR. CHAIR, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. YES, SIR. SO I WANNA ADDRESS, UM, SO COMMISSIONER GROOVE, UH, WENT INTO GREAT DETAIL. UM, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SETBACKS AND THEN, UM, EDWARD CONFIRMED ABOUT THE WINDOWS. UM, BUT, UH, ONE THING, UNLESS I MISSED IT, UM, DIDN'T SEEM LIKE THIS WAS ADDRESSED. UH, SO I'D LIKE TO GET SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS FROM THE APPLICANT. UM, UH, IT TALKS ABOUT THE LOCK COVERAGE CALCULATIONS. UM, THIS IS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, CALCULATIONS HAVE, UM, NOT BEEN PROVIDED. CURB CUT DRIVEWAY WIDTHS, [03:20:01] BUT NOT DIMENSIONS AND THE WINDOWS. WELL, WE TALKED ABOUT THE WINDOWS. UM, CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT PLEASE? UM, I CAN COMMENT TO THE LOT COVERAGE. UM, WE HAVE THAT ON THE FRONT, UH, PAGE, TOP LEFT CORNER OF THE PLANS. THEY'VE BEEN THERE SINCE, UH, UH, OUR ORIGINAL SUBMITTAL WE'RE AT 46.6%, UH, IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE, WHICH IS BELOW THE 50% REQUIRED. AND I'D LIKE TO TURN OVER THE DRIVEWAY. COMMENT TO MY ARCHITECT BRIAN. THIS IS BRIAN FALWELL. I'M THE ARCHITECT FOR THE PROJECT. UM, THE DRIVEWAYS ARE 10 FEET IN WIDTH, BUT THE ACCESS OFF OF FENG WAY, ESSENTIALLY YOU CAN PARK THREE CARS. SO THAT 10 FEET, YOU HAVE 30 FEET IN TOTAL. UM, AND THE DIVISION ENDS UP IN THE CENTER OF EACH OF THOSE, UH, RIBBONS OF CONCRETE. SO OUR 10 OR WHERE WE WILL COMPLY, HOW WE'LL COMPLY WITH THE STAFF COMMENT IS TO INCREASE THE DEPTH OF THE IMPER, OF THE PERVIOUS PORTION OF THAT RIBBON TO DELIVER LANDSCAPING UP DIRECTLY ABUTTING THE, UH, THE CURB CUT AND THEN TO DELIVER A DETAIL EXPLAINING THE CURB CUT WHERE WE ENTER THE DRIVEWAY WITH P WAY. BUT THE DRIVEWAYS ARE INTENDED TO BE 10 FOOT AND WIDTH WITH, UH, DELINEATION. UH, TO MAKE IT CLEAR, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. SO EACH DRIVEWAY IS 10 A TOTAL OF 30. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE GUIDELINES ALLOW , RIGHT? THEY WOULD BE SEPARATED BY LANDSCAPE EACH LANE. YEAH, BUT WE ONLY ALLOW FOR ONE DRIVEWAY PER CURB CUT AND NO MORE THAN 10. I GUESS THAT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING RIGHT THERE. I THINK THAT'S WHAT STAFF IS STAYING IN STIPULATION. SO IT WOULD BE ONE CURB CUT OF 10 FEET THAT YOU CAN THEN WIDEN ONCE YOU GET IN. AND MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN REDESIGN THAT, BUT I MEAN, YOU, YOU, WE WOULDN'T ALLOW FOR 30 TOTAL. NO, THEY WOULD BE THREE INDIVIDUALS, 10 FOOT WIDE INTERIM. I HAVE A FEELING, UM, THIS HAS NOT BEEN TO A D R C. I MEAN, UM, I HAVE A FEELING MAYBE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF MISUNDERSTANDING HERE BETWEEN THE STIPULATIONS AND THE GUIDELINES THAT THE APPLICANT MAYBE NEEDS TO ADDRESS. AND THEN I WOULD LIKE TO, I THINK THE FRONT SETBACK AND THE PARKING ISSUE IS A BIG ITEM, WHICH WILL THEN ALSO LEAD TO LOT COVERAGE. UH, DISCUSSION. MR. COMMISSIONER GIBBS A MOTION AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GROOVE? I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. I MOVE THIS ITEM TO D COMMISSIONER GIBBS. I SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO A D R C. ANY DISCUSSION? I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. HERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. SORAN. ZORAN STEPPED AWAY. CARPENTER. AYE. RUBE AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. EDWARD. DO WE STILL HAVE QUORUM? WE CURRENTLY HAVE SIX COMMISSIONERS. OKAY. WE CAN'T LOSE ANYMORE, RIGHT? [25. 21-4796 Address/Description: 253 LOTUS ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-063 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Timothy DeWein Request: Window replacement, exterior modifications, stucco over siding City Council Dist.: 1 ] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 25 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 0 63. 2 53 LOTUS. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE ROTTEN OR MISSING SIDING WITH SIMILAR WOOD SIDING. TWO TO REPLACE SEVEN WOOD WINDOWS WITH VINYL WINDOWS. THREE TO REPLACE THREE WOOD WINDOWS WITH NEW WOOD WINDOWS. FOUR TO REPLACE FRONT THE FRONT DOOR WITH A NEW FRONT DOOR AND FIVE TO INSTALL A STUCCO FOUNDATION SKIRTING WITH VENTS AND WOOD TRIM. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, SIDING REPAIR WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT ONLY SPOT REPLACEMENT OCCUR. WHOLESALE SIDING REPLACEMENT IS NOT TO OCCUR. AND TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT OR THAT THE REPLACEMENT SIDING MATCH THE ORIGINAL AND PROFILE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO, ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOW REPLACEMENT WITH VINYL WINDOWS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE INSTALLATION OF WOOD WINDOWS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR NEW WINDOWS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE, ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOW REPLACEMENT WITH REPLACEMENT WOOD WINDOWS. WITH THE STIPULATION THAT WOOD WINDOWS ARE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR NEW WINDOWS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FOUR. THE INSTALLATION OF A STEEL DOOR [03:25:01] STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT AN ARCHITECTURALLY APPROPRIATE WOOD DOOR SHOULD BE INSTALLED. THE DOOR SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO O H P STAFFER REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FIVE. STUCCO SKIRTING INSTALLATION STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT SKIRTING BE INSTALLED THAT MATCHES THE PROFILE OF THE HISTORIC WOOD SIDING. STEPHANIE IS ON THE LINE NOW WITH MR. TIMOTHY DEWINE, WHO IS, UH, WORKING ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER. UH, MR. DEWINE, ARE YOU THERE? UH, THERE ARE NO PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THIS CASE. UH, I WILL NOTE THAT THIS IS A RETURNING VIOLATION. YES, I AM HERE. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD, MR. DEWINE. OKAY. UM, LET SEE. OKAY, SO GOING DOWN, UH, THAT LIST, AND I'M GONNA MINIMIZE THE VIDEO AND GO TO MY OWN LIST. UM, A LOT OF THIS WAS BASED ON A CONVERSATION THAT WAS HAD IN APRIL, UH, DURING A VISIT, A PROPERTY VISIT TO 2 53 LOTUS BY, UM, EDWARD HALL AND HUI FAM. AND WHAT WAS AGREED TO, AT THAT MEETING WAS THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS. OKAY. SO, UH, IT WAS AGREED THAT ON, I'M SORRY, MY COMPUTER'S HUNG UP. HANG ON. UM, OKAY. SO WHAT WAS AGREED ON REGARDING ITEM ONE SIDING REPAIR, UH, WAS JUST THAT IT BE REPAIRED. THERE WAS NO, NO DISCUSSION ABOUT, UM, WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT. AND I NEED A CLARIFICATION ON WHAT YOU CONSIDER WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A PERCENTAGE OF ONE WALL OR THE ENTIRE WALL, OR WHAT STAFF IS PREDOMINANTLY TALKING TO THE ENTIRE WALL IN REGARDS TO, UH, THE DEFINITION OF WHOLESALE. UH, STAFF WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT SIDING IS REPLACED, UM, IN SPOT SECTIONS WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, THAT IF SIDING IS ABLE TO BE REPAIRED, THAT IT INDEED BE REPAIRED. OKAY. WHO WAS THAT THAT WAS SPEAKING? 'CAUSE I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY'S LIPS MOVING ON THE THIS IS EDWARD. OH, OKAY. UH, OKAY. UM, SO REGARDING THE SIDING, IF YOU, UM, SO THE SIDING IS FINE. WE'LL GET TO THE SKIRTING ITSELF LATER. UM, REGARDING NUMBER TWO, ORIGINAL WOOD WIND REPLACEMENT, AND NUMBER THREE, IT WAS AGREED THAT IF THE STREET FACING WINDOWS WERE REPLACED WITH WOOD, THAT THE OTHER, UM, WINDOWS WOULD BE OKAY. AND WHEN I SAY, OKAY, UH, WHAT WAS SAID BY MR. FAM AND, AND, UH, MR. HALL WAS THAT IF WE DID THAT OR PROPOSED THAT, THAT THEY WOULD, UH, GO ALONG AND RECOMMEND IT. THEY DID HAVE THE CAVEAT THAT OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING THEY RECOMMEND DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE COMMISSION'S GOING TO APPROVE IT, BUT THERE WAS SOME GIVE AND TAKE GOING ON IN THESE DISCUSSIONS. AND, UM, THAT WAS THEIR GIVE IF WE DID THE FRONT WINDOWS WOOD AND SORT OF TO, I, I DON'T HAVE, UH, PROOF THAT I CAN PLAY ON THIS CALL, BUT, UM, MR. ADAMS, WHO'S THE HOMEOWNER, WENT OUT AND ORDERED THOSE WOOD WINDOWS AT ONCE AND DID NOT ORDER ANY OTHER WINDOWS FOR THE REST OF THE HOUSE. SO WE WERE BOTH UNDER THE SAME UNDERSTANDING, UM, REGARDING INSTALLATION OF A STEEL DOOR. UM, THERE WAS, UH, A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE JUST INSTALLED THE DOOR THAT THE PROBLEM WITH THE CURRENT DOOR, WHICH INCIDENTALLY IS WOOD, IS THE, UH, OH, YOU HAVE IT ON THE SCREEN THERE. THE, UH, GLASS CIRCLE IS NOT REALLY, UH, OF THE TIME THAT, UH, THE HOUSE WAS BUILT. AND WE JUST, UH, AGREED THAT THERE WOULD BE A PANEL DOOR, UH, NOT A DOOR WITH WINDOWS. AND AGAIN, WE MENTIONED STEEL AND I THINK I EVEN PULLED THEM UP ON LOWE'S WEBSITE, THEY SAID. OKAY. UM, IF YOU, WHILE YOU HAVE THAT UP, I ALSO ASKED, UH, THE GIRL ON THE CALL TO HAVE THE MINUTES FROM THE DECEMBER 16TH MEETING [03:30:01] HANDY. UM, IF YOU COULD PULL THAT UP. AND THE, THE REASON THAT IT'S NOT IN MY PRESENTATION IS BECAUSE WHEN WE SUBMITTED THE DOCUMENTATION, UM, THAT THIS MEETING WAS BASED ON, WE SPECIFICALLY CHECKED THE BOX CONCEPTUAL REVIEW, NOT FINAL REVIEW. AND, UM, WE WERE TOLD THAT THAT WAS GONNA BE A MEETING WHERE MR. FAM AND EDWARDS OR, AND MR. HALL WOULD GET WITH THE OTHER STAFF MEMBERS AND GO OVER IT AND DISCUSS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY GET EVERYBODY ON THE SAME PAGE FOR WHAT WE HAD DISCUSSED, UM, IN THE, IN THE IN-PERSON MEETING IN APRIL. SO I ONLY SUBMITTED PAPERWORK FOR, UH, TO GO ALONG WITH WHAT WE HAD AGREED TO VERBALLY. UM, AND SO I DIDN'T SUBMIT ANY PICTURES, UM, THAT I'M ASKING YOU TO PULL UP. NOW, IS THAT THE PRES THAT'S THE PRESENTATION FROM THE 16TH THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. ARE YOU THERE? YES, WE ARE. SIR, CAN YOU SEE IT ON THE SCREEN? OKAY. SO IF YOU LOOK AT, UM, IF YOU'LL GO TO PAGE 29, THAT IS A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN BY, UM, FAM OR WHO, WHOEVER, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S PAGE 29. YEP, WE HAVE IT UP. IT'S GONNA BE DELAYED ON YOUR END. OKAY. THAT IS THE ORIGINAL DOOR THAT WAS ON THE HOUSE WHEN MR. ADAMS BOUGHT THE HOUSE. IT IS A STEEL DOOR, SO IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WHATEVER WAS THERE WHEN HE BOUGHT IT COULD STAY. THAT IS A STEEL DOOR THAT HAS AN, A CURVED WINDOW AT THE TOP THAT I BELIEVE PROBABLY WAS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THE PERIOD. AND WHAT WE PROPOSED IS A LOT MORE APPROPRIATE. IT JUST DOESN'T HAVE A WINDOW, UH, BUT IT'S A PANEL DOOR AND MOST OF THE HOMES ON THIS STREET HAVE SIMILAR DOORS WITH NO WINDOWS. UM, REGARDING THE SKIRTING, IF YOU GO TO PAGE NINE, UH, THE ORIGINAL SKIRTING WHEN HE BOUGHT THE HOUSE WAS, UH, AN ALUMINUM CURRING THAT HAD, I BELIEVE, SIX INCH. IT WAS BASICALLY PATTERNED AFTER SIX INCH LAP SIDING. YOU CAN SEE, I THINK THERE'S ONLY TWO PIECES GOING ACROSS THE BOTTOM. AND SO HE REMOVED, WHEN HE STUC ON THE WHOLE HOUSE, HE REMOVED THE ALUMINUM SIDING, WHICH WAS ATTACHED TO ROTTEN PLYWOOD AND IN SOME PLACES EVEN LATTICE. AND HE REBUILT A WOODEN FRAME, UM, WITH TREATED WOOD. AND THEN THE, UH, UH, STUCCO WAS APPLIED TO THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE, I'D HAVE TO LOOK REAL QUICK AND TELL YOU WHAT PAGE IT IS. UM, PAGE, UH, OH, SAME PAGE NINE. YOU CAN SEE THAT LOOKING AT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THE LEFT HALF HAD THE SIX INCH ALUMINUM SIDING IN THE RIGHT HALF HAS CONCRETE BECAUSE IT'S THE PORCH AND THE STEPS ARE CONCRETE. AND IN OUR PROPOSAL TO ADD STUCCO WITH A VENT, THE, I DON'T BELIEVE THE EXISTING OR THE OLDER, UH, THE WOMAN SIDING EVEN HAD A VENT IN IT. AND OUR PROPOSAL WAS FOR STUCCO, UH, WITH THE WOOD TRIM ABOVE IT, LIKE IN THE PICTURE. AND THE STUCCO WOULD BE PAINTED THE SAME PICTURE AS THE HOUSE. SO YOU'VE ALREADY GOT HALF OF THE FRONT, UH, OF THE LOWER PORTION CONCRETE. AND I THINK, UH, THIS, THAT IS GONNA STAY GRAY AND I THINK STUCCO PAINTED THE SAME COLOR OF THE HOUSE WOULD LOOK BETTER AND IS JUST AS APPROPRIATE AS SIX INCH ALUMINUM SIDING. UM, SO LEMME GO BACK TO THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION HERE. UM, SO, UH, I WANT TO JUST MENTION THAT A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS. UM, FROM ON IN THE DECEMBER 16TH MEETING, I KNOW SEVERAL OF YOU WERE IN ATTENDANCE AT THAT MEETING. UM, EVEN MR. QUE VELAZQUEZ, UM, IN FACT, I THINK HE MADE A MOTION TO EXTEND OR CONTINUE THE MEETING OVER AN ISSUE THAT WE HAD BROUGHT UP REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT THIS HOME IS EVEN INCLUDED, UH, OR SHOULD BE, SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN THE LAVACCA NEIGHBORHOOD. AND [03:35:02] THEN WE, THE EXTENSION GAVE US TWO WEEKS TO STRAIGHTEN IT OUT, AND THEN WE CAME BACK FOR ANOTHER MEETING. AND UNFORTUNATELY, MR. VELAS WAS, VELASQUEZ WAS NOT THERE. BUT, UM, IN, IN THE TWO WEEKS WHEN WE WERE SUPPOSED TO IRON IT OUT, NO EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THAT HOME BEING IN LAVACCA WAS PROVIDED. ALL WE RECEIVED WAS, UH, AN EMAIL FROM KATIE STATING THAT SHE BELIEVED IT WAS SUBDIVIDED IN 2014 BACKUP INFORMATION. AND SINCE DECEMBER 16TH, UM, WE'VE ASKED SEVERAL, SEVERAL TIMES, SEVERAL EMAIL REQUESTS WERE SENT ASKING FOR SOME DOCUMENTATION. OF COURSE, TWO WEEKS LATER, THE MEETING CAME UP AND EVERYBODY JUST KIND OF BREEZED OVER IT, LIKE WE HAD DECIDED IT AND THE ISSUE WAS DROPPED. UM, BUT I ALSO WANT YOU TO GO TO THE LAST PAGE OF THE O H P SUBMISSION FOR THIS MEETING THAT WE'RE ON TODAY. THE VERY LAST PAGE, UM, IS WHERE THE, UH, H C R C SAID THAT WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO DATE THE HOME, THEY SAID IT WAS ON THE 1951 MAP, UH, FROM SANBORN. AND IF YOU GO TO THAT LAST PAGE, WHICH IS THE SANBORN MAP, YOU'LL SEE THAT IT WAS A SEPARATE PARCEL, WHICH IS COMPLETELY AT ODDS WITH WHAT KATIE SAID, THAT IT WAS DIVIDED IN 2014. SO WE WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF THE STAFF OR THE COMMISSION WOULD RECOMMEND OR WOULD APPROVE THE CHANGES AS WE LISTED THEM. IN OTHER WORDS, FULL APPROVAL OF ALL OF THE ITEMS. UH, AND, YOU KNOW, SAVE US A TRIP FROM HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, UM, BECAUSE WE REALLY DO BELIEVE THIS HOUSE IS NOT IN THE VACA. WE'LL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN WITHIN REASON TO FOLLOW YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS. BUT AT THIS POINT, TO ORDER OR TO PURCHASE NINE MORE WINDOWS OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER WAS, UH, THAT ARE WOOD, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY NOW. THE HOMEOWNER HAS ALREADY SUFFERED TWO BREAK-INS, MAJOR THEFTS OF AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEMS AND OTHER THINGS, UM, WHILE WE'VE BEEN PUTZING AROUND BACK AND FORTH ON THIS AND, UM, UH, FROZE UP AGAIN. UM, ANYWAY, UH, IT ALSO SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE, THE, THE THREE WINDOWS YOU ARE APPROVING FOR THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, UM, THEIR COMPOSITE, THE JULIN 2,500 SERIES IS A COMPOSITE. IT'S, UH, IT'S NOT A SOLID WOOD WINDOW. THE VINYL WINDOWS THAT ARE ON THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROFILE. YOU CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE FROM A DISTANCE. WE WERE HAPPY TO ORDER THE ONES FOR THE STREET VIEW, THE STREET FACING PORTION OF THE HOUSE, BUT NOBODY'S GONNA SEE THE OTHER THREE SIDES. UM, AND SO WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE BEEN REASONABLE TO OFFER TO DO THE, THE ONES FACING THE STREET, BUT NOT THE, UH, NOT THE REST OF THEM. HE'S ALREADY SPENT WAY TOO MUCH MONEY, INCLUDING THE THEFTS AND EVERYTHING. HE CAN'T JUST THROW AWAY NINE, UH, VINYL WINDOWS AND BUY NINE WOODWINDS. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, SURE. THANK COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION, MR. CHAIR. AS COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, I, I, UH, UH, CAN ONLY REALLY APPRECIATE THE, THE INTEGRITY THAT, THAT THE APPLICANT PRESENTS HIMSELF, UM, WITH, WITH RESPECT TO THE DOCUMENTATION AND, AND, AND THE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE ARGUMENT, UH, THAT, THAT HE'S HAVING TO MAKE, PARTICULARLY, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO JUST ANTICIPATING THAT, THAT THE CITY OR THAT STAFF, AND NO OFFENSE TO STAFF, BUT JUST IN, IN, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF COMMON BUSINESS, RIGHT, IS, IS THAT THE OWNNESS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, UH, ON THE, ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE APPLICANT, ALWAYS ON THE SHOULDERS OF THE APPLICANT. BUT I, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE CITY IS, IS COMMITTING TO, UH, UH, UH, UH, CONTENDING [03:40:01] A JURISDICTION THAT THE CITY SHOULD BEAR SOME RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE AN APPLICANT WITH PROOF OR, OR A LETTER THAT IS A COMMITMENT THAT SAYS, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT WE FIND, AND IT'S IN WRITING SO THAT THE APPLICANT CAN GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND CHALLENGE IT OR GO TO A LAWYER AND CHALLENGE IT. IN ANY CASE, IT, IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT ALL OF THAT, UM, IS, IS NEEDED. UH, IF, IF WE JUDGE THE, THE, UH, THE APPLICANT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, TRUTH LEVEL, RIGHT, OR, OR INTEGRITY AS, UM, AS AS QUALIFIED. AND, AND IT, IT, IT JUST SEEMS THAT, THAT THERE'S SO MUCH IN QUESTION HERE. NOW THAT BEING SAID, WE ADD THE COMMITMENT THAT THE APPLICANT IS MAKING THAT GOES ABOVE AND BEYOND, AND THAT THIS KIND OF DIALOGUE THAT WE HAVE ABOUT COMPOSITE MATERIALS MATCHING, BUT THEY'RE NOT WOOD AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. AND ADD THAT TO THE, TO THE IDEA THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE, WHO, WHO'S JURISDICTION. THIS IS IN REALITY, THERE'S ENOUGH QUESTION FOR US TO NOT HAVE A REASONABLE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WAY TO SAY YES OR NO ABOUT WHETHER IT IS OR IT ISN'T. IN WHICH CASE IT SEEMS LIKE THE, THE, THE WEIGHT SHOULD LEAN TOWARD THE APPLICANT. MR. CHAIR, I, THE REASON I I ADDRESS THIS TO YOU IS BECAUSE I, I HOPE THAT, THAT YOU MIGHT GUIDE US IN, IN THE DIRECTION, UM, THAT THAT IS A DIRECTION THAT MOST DEFINITELY IS BENEFICIAL TO THIS, TO THE APPLICANT OR TO THE CITIZEN, RIGHT? WHO IS NOT TRYING TO GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING. HE'S JUST, YOU KNOW, TO TRYING TO BE A GOOD STEWARD OF, OF, OF THEIR, OF THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS COMMUNITY. AND I, I, I'VE GOTTA TELL YOU MY, MY, I I REALLY FEEL MY BRAIN GOES IN THE DIRECTION OF THIS APPLICANT, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU. UH, COULD STAFF RESPOND TO THE ISSUE OF WHETHER THIS IS OR IS NOT IN THE DISTRICT AND WHETHER THAT DOCUMENTATION IS AVAILABLE? WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION AT HAND RIGHT NOW. UM, WHAT WE'RE HERE REVIEWING RIGHT NOW IS SPECIFICALLY, UM, WHAT'S LISTED ON THE AGENDA, WHAT'S PUBLISHED, UH, ON THE, THE PUBLIC, UH, H D R C AGENDA, UM, IN REGARDS TO THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, STAFF IS TRYING TO BRING COMPLIANCE TO THIS CASE. UM, THERE WAS A NUMBER OF ITEMS OR SCOPES OF, OF WORK THAT WERE DONE WITHOUT PERMITS, WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. UH, SO STAFF IS TRYING TO, UH, FIND A SOLUTION THAT WILL BRING COMPLIANCE TO THIS ADDRESS, UM, SO THAT THE APPLICANT CAN THEN MOVE FORWARD AND, AND FINISH THIS PROJECT. IN REGARDS TO THE, THE ZONING OF THIS PROPERTY, FROM WHAT STAFF KNOWS AND THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE, THIS PROPERTY IS ZONED HISTORIC. UH, MAY I SAY, SO SOMETHING, THIS IS COMMISSIONER, I WANNA ASK SOMETHING TO THE APPLICANT. DID WE NOT MEET AT THE D R C VIRTUALLY AT SOME POINT? I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. SAY THAT AGAIN. I THINK YOU ATTENDED A D R C A VIRTUAL D R C WHERE WE HAD A VIDEO CONFERENCE AND WE KIND OF DISCUSSED BACK AND FORTH TOCO AND DISCUSS AND THE SKIRTING AND THE WINDOWS. I DON'T REMEMBER THE DATE, BUT YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M OBVIOUSLY, I'M GONNA GO BY WHAT WAS SAID LAST. WELL, AND THERE MAY BE A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION HERE BECAUSE I REMEMBER BEING AT A D R C GOING BACK AND FORTH AND, AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S IN A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD OR NOT, AND THERE'S SOME WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE TO THIS HOUSE AND MODIFICATION OF A HOME THAT LOOKS PRETTY MUCH HISTORIC. AND I THINK THAT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE, YOU KNOW, DO COME UP WITH SOME SOLUTIONS THAT BRING BACK SOME OF THE HISTORY BACK TO THE HOME. SO I THOUGHT THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED SOME IDEAS THAT WOULD THEN YOU WOULD GO BACK AND WORK ON AND THEN COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION. AND WE WERE GONNA WORK SOME COMPROMISES, WHICH DID INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, UH, MAKING THE STUCCO SKIRTING LOOK LIKE CONCRETE. BUT THAT WAS NO PROMISE. IT WAS JUST IDEAS. BECAUSE REMOVING STUCCO IS NOT AN EASY PROJECT. AND WE WERE JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, COME WITH A, WITH A COMPROMISE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SCREENS AND SOME OF THE BACK WINDOWS FOCUSING MORE ON THE FRONT. YES. SO A LOT OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT YOU HAD WITH Q OR STAFF, EDWARD, I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS. AND THAT IS KIND OF WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR, BUT IT'S STILL NOT WHAT'S PRESENTED HERE TODAY. AND, AND MAYBE WE, IS THIS, IS THIS MS GROUP SPEAKING, JUST SO I KNOW? YES, YES. OKAY. I, AND I'M LOOKING AT YOUR PICTURE, UH, FROM, I TOOK SCREENSHOTS OF EVERYBODY BECAUSE THE, UH, WEBEX THAT YOU'RE [03:45:01] USING DOESN'T SHOW THE RIGHT NAMES AND STUFF. SO I, UM, I WROTE 'EM IN AND LOOKING AT YOUR PICTURE, I DO RECALL THAT CONVERSATION, BUT THAT WAS, UH, LIKE IN JANUARY OR FEBRUARY, I BELIEVE. AND, AND WHAT WAS DECIDED WAS, OR BECAUSE, UH, MR. FAN WAS OUR POINT OF CONTACT, THAT WHEN HE CAME OUT TO TALK TO US, HE WAS REPRESENTING YOU. AND WE DID LOOK AT, AT OTHER THINGS, AND WE, WE DID, UH, SOME MOCK-UPS WITH WINDOW SCREENS THAT MR. FAM, UH, TOOK PICTURES OF THE DAY THAT HE WAS THERE IN, IN, UH, APRIL WITH MR. HALL. THOSE ARE NOT IN, UH, THE PRESENTATION THAT YOU ALL ARE PREPARED. UM, SO I GUESS HE DECIDED OR SOMEBODY DECIDED THAT THAT WASN'T, BUT, AND THAT DOESN'T, I'M SORRY THAT ANY OF THE WORK WAS APPROVED. I THINK THAT WAS VERY CLEAR WITH OUR CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD, THAT THESE WERE IDEAS AND THAT YOU WERE GONNA COME BACK. AND I EVEN SUGGESTED ANOTHER D R C BECAUSE IT WAS DELICATE. THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS MOVING PARTS, RIGHT? WINDOWS, SITING, SKIRTING DOORS. SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MOVING FORWARD WITH SOME MAYBE COMPROMISES THAT THEN WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE BOARD. IN NO WAY. I THINK THAT EITHER STAFF OR ME WERE INTENDED AS BEING, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND ORDER YOUR WINDOWS, OR YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND, YOU KNOW, DO THIS. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE NO, I UNDER THAT THE ORDERING OF THE WINDOWS OR ANYTHING YOU'VE DONE WITH EXTRA COST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT CONVERSATIONS HAVE BEEN GOING ON IN THE COMMISSION. AND LIKE, JUST LIKE YOU SAID, WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS IN SEPTEMBER AND THEN JANUARY, I, THIS CASE IS COMING BACK AGAIN. I MEAN, THERE'S TIME HERE, TIMEFRAMES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH, I THINK, STAFF'S POSITION OR, OR ANYBODY HERE ON THE COMMISSION THAT HAS DELAYED THIS AND COSTING MORE MONEY TO THE OWNER. WELL, I BEG TO DIFFER, UM, WHEN I HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS WITH SAM AND WHEN WE AGREED TO MEET AT THE HOUSE, WE THOUGHT YOU WERE COMING AND WHAT'S BETTER THAN A, UH, AN ACTUAL VISIT TO THE HOUSE? NOT A, NOT A VIDEO CHAT WHERE YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO I'M SORRY THAT FAM DIDN'T INVITE YOU OR HOWEVER THAT WENT, BUT WHEN I SUBMITTED THE PAPERWORK THAT I DID, WHICH IS WHY IT'S SO LIMITED, I DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE GONNA HAVE A HEARING. THE PAPERWORK WAS SPECIFICALLY SUBMITTED FOR CONCEPTUAL REVIEW. YOU GUYS HAD SO MANY, UH, UH, NAMES FOR THINGS AND H D R C AND O H P AND ALL THIS STUFF. I CAN'T BE EXPECTED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS ON YOUR WEBSITE. I'VE HAD TWO CHOICES, CONCEPTUAL REVIEW OR FINAL REVIEW, AND I CHECKED CONCEPTUAL REVIEW, AND I THOUGHT THAT MAYBE WE WOULD HAVE A MEETING LIKE YOU'RE DESCRIBING WITH YOU WITH MORE PEOPLE. AND WHEN I GOT THE NOTICE THAT WE WERE HAVING THE HEARING TODAY, I CONTACTED MR. EDWARDS, OR EXCUSE ME, MR. HALL. I CALLED HIM SEVERAL TIMES. HE DID NOT RETURN MY CALLS. AND IT WASN'T UNTIL HE SENT ME AN EMAIL THAT SAID, WE WERE CONFIRMING, AND I NEED YOUR PHONE NUMBER THAT I REPLIED, IS THIS SOME SORT OF A FINAL REVIEW? BECAUSE WE DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS. AND HIS REPLY WAS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, LOOK, UH, YOU KNOW, NOT IN, I'M PARAPHRASING, WE'RE TIRED OF WORKING WITH YOU GUYS. WE'VE BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH. THIS IS IT. HE WAS VERY FINE. AND I CAN PULL IT UP. IF ANYBODY WANTS ME TO READ IT, I'LL PULL IT UP. I SAID, EDWARD ODD SINCE, SINCE WE ASKED FOR CONCEPTUAL REVIEW AS SHOWN ON THE EVIDENCE SUBMITTED FOR THIS HEARING, HIS REPLY WAS, THIS IS AN ACTIVE VIOLATION THAT NEEDS RESOLUTION. WE ANTICIPATE THAT THIS REQUEST WILL BE HARD. OH, HEARD, I'M SORRY. HE SAID HARD BUT HEARD BETWEEN FIVE AND 10. UH, AND THIS IS AN ACTIVE VIOLATION THAT NEEDS RESOLUTION, RESOLUTION. IT WASN'T, OH, I'M SORRY. YOU'RE RIGHT. UH, WE NEED TO DISCUSS THINGS A LITTLE MORE SINCE FAM IS GONE. NOW, NOBODY EVER TOLD ME FAM WAS GONE. HE'S STILL ON YOUR WEBSITE AS, AS WORKING THERE. ALTHOUGH HE MOVED TO WASHINGTON AND HE IS BEEN WORKING THERE SINCE JUNE. SIR, YOU [03:50:01] CAN'T READ MINDS. I, I, I'VE, WELL, WE HAD A GOOD MEETING WHEN WE MET. I THINK, UH, WHEN THERE IS A VIOLATION ON STUFF, THERE'S SOME RULES, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO CONCEPTUAL WHEN THERE IS A VIOLATION. SO, I MEAN, THERE HAS, SO I THINK IT'S, IT'S MORE IN THE LINES OF THAT, UM, YOU DON'T HAVE MANY CHOICES WHEN THERE IS A COMPLIANCE CASE. I MEAN, I, I DON'T WANNA, UH, MOVE FORWARD WITH A, A MOTION, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T WANNA WASTE YOUR TIME BECAUSE I DO FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOME OF THESE ITEMS THAT I DON'T FEEL THAT WE CAN ACCEPT. UM, WELL, MS. GRUB, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, YOU'RE WASTING MY TIME RIGHT NOW. YOU'VE BEEN WASTING MY TIME FOR QUITE A LONG TIME. UH, THE, WHEN I SUBMITTED THIS DOCUMENTATION, IT GOT KICKED BACK OUTTA YOUR SYSTEM BECAUSE MR. FA WAS GONE. I MEAN, I, I, I TRIED TO CONTACT YOUR OFFICE SEVERAL TIMES TO SEE IF YOUR SYSTEM WAS DOWN. UH, YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, NOBODY HAD THE COURTESY TO, TO LET US KNOW OR EVEN UPDATE YOUR WEBSITE THAT MR. FA WAS GONE. SO, TALKING ABOUT WHAT COMMUNICATION, LET'S START THERE. SO WE ARE BOTH, AND I'M, AND I'M SORRY THAT YOU DID NOT ATTEND THE MEETING SAM AND MR CAME TO, BUT THEY TOLD US, AND WE ARE, THAT IF WE DID THESE THINGS THAT THEY WOULD RECOMMEND TO, TO THE, UH, COMMISSION THAT THEY ACCEPT THIS. MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT OF GRIEVANCES HERE, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA SOLVE ALL THIS TODAY. UH, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, I HOPE THE APPLICANT UNDERSTANDS THAT THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION PROCESSES HUNDREDS OF CASES, AND THEY CAN'T NOTIFY EVERYONE WHEN THEY HAVE A STAFF CHANGE. SO, AND THEY UPDATE THEIR WEBSITE. CAN YOU PLEASE BE QUIET WHILE I'M SPEAKING? SO THIS HAS BEEN A VERY PROBLEMATIC CASE FROM DAY ONE, AND, UM, I THINK THE APPLICANT IS TRYING TO, UH, FIND SOME KIND OF WAY OF COMING INTO COMPLIANCE. BUT, UH, IF HE FEELS LIKE HE HASN'T HAD, UH, PROPER DUE PROCESS HERE OF HAVING COMMISSIONERS OUT AT THE SITE, THEN I WOULD MOVE FOR A, UH, A SITE VISIT, UH, AS A D R C IN THE NEAR FUTURE. THANK YOU. I'LL, I'LL SECOND IT. MR. CHAIR. UH, MR. CHAIR, UH, BEFORE YOU VOTE, I'D LIKE TO SAY ONE THING. UH, YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES, THE ONLY DOCUMENTATION THAT YOU HAVE PROVIDED IN OVER SIX MONTHS REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPERTY IS IN THE DISTRICT OR NOT, IS THE LAST PAGE OF TODAY'S MEETING'S, UH, UH, EVIDENCE, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT. IT'S THE SANBORN MAP. AND IF, IF YOU HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT, IF YOU WOULD ALL PLEASE LOOK AT IT, IT SHOWS THIS PROPERTY IS A SEPARATE PARCEL THAT HAD AN ADDRESS OF LOTUS, NOT, UH, CAROLINA. THIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN A SEPARATE PARCEL SINCE AT LEAST 1951. AT ONE OF THESE MEETINGS I PROVIDED YOU WITH DEEDS GOING BACK, I BELIEVE, TO 1928, WHERE THIS WAS A SEPARATE PROPERTY. AND, AND YOUR, UH, EVIDENCE, YOU EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THE HOUSE WAS BUILT IN THE TWENTIES OR THIRTIES. SO, OKAY, MR. SOMEBODY KNOWS THAT IT WAS A SEPARATE PARCEL. YES. THIS HOUSE DOES NOT BE MR. DEWIN. PLEASE, MR. DEWINE, PLEASE. THIS ISN'T GONNA BE RESOLVED TODAY. WE'RE GONNA, I'M GONNA TAKE A VOTE AND WE CAN CONTINUE THIS AT THE D R C SITE VISIT. YOU CAN BRING YOUR DOCUMENTATION AND I'LL ASK STAFF TO BRING THEIR DOCUMENTATION AS WELL. SO I CALL FOR A VOTE, PLEASE, MR. CHAIR, WE STILL HAVE SOME DISCUSSION, MR. CHAIR, WE STILL HAVE SOME DISCUSSION. I, I, AND I WANNA BE BRIEF, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT. UH, THEY, IT, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IF I'M IN THE AUDIENCE OUT HERE, IT REALLY SOUNDS LIKE NOBODY'S LISTENING TO THIS APPLICANT. AND, AND, OR IT SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE APPLICANT IS MAKING A CASE AND IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE THE ONES IN CHARGE. BUT FROM MY, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE ALL ON LEVEL, SAME LEVEL. THIS APPLICANT, US AS COMMISSIONERS, AND THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, WHEN ANY OF US CRAWL UP A LITTLE HIGHER, IT'S EVIDENT IN OUR, IN OUR VOICES, RIGHT? AND, AND, AND WE'RE RUDE. AND, AND THERE'S NO REASON FOR US TO BE RUDE. UH, EVEN IF WE FEEL LIKE BEING RUDE, BECAUSE THE PUBLIC, WE NEVER KNOW [03:55:01] WHO'S GONNA CALL IN. IT COULD BE A PERSON HAVING DEPRESSION ON THEIR DAY OR WHATEVER. AND IT'S NOT THEIR OBLIGATION TO FIGURE OUT US COMMISSIONERS. IT'S US COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COMMISSIONER. I TAKE, I TAKE YOUR POINT, AND I APOLOGIZE IF MY, I RAISE MY VOICE, BUT WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO HEAR THESE CASES BECAUSE WE'RE ABOUT TO LOSE A QUORUM. MR. CHAIR, ONE THING THAT I RECOMMEND MAYBE, I THINK, IS TO GO AND GET A DENIAL SO WE CAN GO TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. MAYBE THAT WOULD BE JUST, WELL, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO SITE D R C. IF IT FAILS, THEN WE CAN TRY SOMETHING ELSE. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? AYE. YES. MI, MR. CHAIR? AYE. AYE, QUE UM, THERE'S SOMETHING, THERE'S SOMETHING VERY, VERY WRONG ABOUT, ABOUT, UM, STOPPING DISCUSSION IN THE, IN WITHOUT RESOLVING A PARTICULAR ISSUE. WE'RE GOING THINK ABOUT IT. WE'RE GONNA GO TO A D R C, BUT THE QUESTION OF JURISDICTION HASN'T BEEN ANSWERED. SO WHAT GOOD DOES A D R C DO? NOBODY KNOWS WHOSE PROPERTY. I MEAN, I MEAN, WHAT, WELL, THERE'S, IT'S THE QUESTION. SOMEONE RAISED THE QUESTION AND WILL BE DISCUSSED AT THE D R C. THE APPLICANT WILL BRING HIS DOCUMENTATION, STAFF WILL BRING THEIR DOCUMENTATION, AND THEN WHEN IT COMES BACK TO THE COMMISSION, WE'LL DISCUSS THAT. WELL, CAN, CAN WE, CAN WE, UH, AMEND THE, THE, THE, HAVE A MOTION AMENDED THAT STAFF IS OBLIGATED TO BRING, UM, PROOF OF JURISDICTION? MR. QUIN, YOU GOTTA SHOW IT SOMETHING. MR. QUINTERO, THIS IS ALMA LOZANO. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THERE'S A MOTION THAT HAS BEEN PROPERLY SECONDED. UM, FURTHER DISCUSSION MAY BE TAKEN UPON AFTER THE MO THE MOTION HAS BEEN VOTED ON, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION, BUT AT THIS POINT, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW PEOPLE ARE GOING TO VOTE. WELL, IS THERE, IS, IS IT, IS IT PROPER IN ROBERT'S RULES OF VOTERS TO MAKE A POINT OF ORDER WITH RESPECT TO THE MOTION? THE, THE MOTION IS, IS REQUIRES CLARIFICATION. THE CHAIR HAS ALREADY CALLED FOR A VOTE, RIGHT? BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE A POINT OF ORDER IN THE MIDDLE OF ANY POINT OF, OF, OF, UH, STATE YOUR POINT OF ORDER. MY, MY POINT OF ORDER IS THAT WE'RE, UH, GOING TO D R C WITHOUT HAVING A KNOWLEDGE OF THE JURISDICTION BY WHICH THE D R C PROPOSES TO COME UP WITH POSSIBLY, UH, UM, UH, UM, PROPERTY ALTERING, UM, UM, UM, UH, PARAMETERS. OKAY? THAT WE'RE, THAT, THAT, THAT WE WOULD SHOW UP TO SOMETHING WITHOUT HAVING A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR JURISDICTION IS. SO, ACTION HASN'T DO THAT ACTION HASN'T BEEN TAKEN, DEPENDING ON THE VOTE, UM, ACTION WILL BE TAKEN AFTER THAT. SO, LIKE MR. CHAIR SAID, HE SAID, IF IT'S APPROVED, IT GOES TO THE D R C, NOT THE D R C THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED. IF IT'S NOT APPROVED, THEN YOU CAN CONSIDER ANOTHER MOTION. BUT THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING THAT THE MOTION SHOULD HAVE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO IT THAT SAYS THAT STAFF IS GONNA SHOW UP WITH PROOF OF JURISDICTION. IT'S UP TO MR. CARPENTER AND MS. GRU IF THEY WANNA AMEND THEIR MOTION. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FROM 21, MR. CHAIR IN, IN THAT WAY. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, DO YOU AMEND YOUR MOTION? UM, I AMEND MY MOTION, BUT I, I WANT TO REMIND, UH, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER THAT WHEN THIS CASE CAME BEFORE US, THE VERY FIRST TIME I ASKED THAT IT BE SET ASIDE TO OUR NEXT MEETING, PENDING O H P STAFF CLARIFYING THAT VERY POINT, THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, YES, WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER IT. AND THEY IS THEIR OBLIGATION TO CLARIFY THAT THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, YES, WE HAVE JURISDICTION OVER. WE THEN PROCEED TO HEAR THE CASE AGAIN. WE THEN PROCEED TO MEET WITH HIM SEVERAL TIMES. SO, UH, I FEEL LIKE, UH, THAT SHOULD BE ALREADY HASHED OUT. BUT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE GOTTA REVIEW YET AGAIN, WELL, SOMETHING VISUAL, UH, AN ACTUAL, A RED, UH, SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE CAN HAVE AS AN AUTHORITY TO SAY, RIGHT HERE, HERE'S THE SEAL AND THE SIGNATURE OF WHOEVER IT IS THAT'S AUTHORIZED TO SAY WHOSE JURISDICTION IT IS. THESE ARE PROPERTY RIGHTS HERE. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'LL AMEND MY MOTION TO, UM, REFER THIS TO AN ONSITE D R C WITH O H P STAFF BRINGING, UH, SUBSTANTIAL AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT, UH, THEY, AND THIS COMMISSION HAS JURISDICTION OVER THIS CASE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. COMMISSIONER GRUBB, DO YOU SECOND? I DON'T THINK I SECOND THE FIRST MOTION. I THINK IT WAS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. OH, I'M SORRY. COMMISSIONER [04:00:01] GIBBS OR SOMEBODY ELSE CAN STOP. LET'S SAY NOBODY SECONDED. I'LL SECOND RIGHT? OKAY. I WAS NOT SECONDING. OKAY. THANK YOU. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. AYE. QUEZ. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND THAT AYE. MOTION CARRIES. [26. 21-4800 Address/Description: 409 QUITMAN ST HDRC Case No.: 2021-345 Historic District Name: Government Hill Applicant: Alex Cruz Request: Fenestration modifications, landscaping, construction of a rear addition, window removal City Council Dist.: 2 ] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 26 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 3 45 4 0 9 EQUIPMENT. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE FOR FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO THE FRONT FACADE. TWO, TO REMOVE THE EXISTING NON-ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS FROM THE SIDE EAST FACADE. THREE, TO CONSTRUCT A REAR ADDITION AND FOUR TO PERFORM LANDSCAPING MODIFICATIONS, INCLUDING THE INSTALLATION OF Z LANDSCAPING MATERIALS THROUGHOUT THE FRONT YARD. REMOVAL OF THE EXISTING FRONT WALKWAY STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE. FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO THE FRONT FACADE. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT RE-INSTALL TWO GROUPED WINDOWS CENTERED BENEATH THE FRONT FACING GABLE WINDOWS SHOULD COMPLY WITH STAFF STANDARD FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. TWO. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO THE EAST SIDE. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL WINDOWS ON THE EAST FACADE TOWARD THE FRONT OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. WINDOWS SHOULD COMPLY WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. THREE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE. THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REAR ADDITION STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE ADDITIONS ROOF FORM, MATERIALS AND FENESTRATION PROFILE BE MODIFIED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. COMPOSITE SIDING WITH A FOUR INCH EXPOSURE AND NO WOOD FOE, WOOD GRAIN MAY BE USED IF WOOD SIDING THAT MATCHES THAT OF THE ORIG. THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE IS NOT USED. A GABLE OR HIP ROOF SHOULD BE INSTALLED AND WINDOWS SHOULD COMPLY WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS. AND NEW CONSTRUCTION STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FOUR, LANDSCAPING MODIFICATIONS WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT VEGETATION BE INSTALLED WITHIN THE FRONT YARD TO COVER APPROXIMATELY 50% OF THE FRONT YARD AREA, AND TWO, THAT A CONCRETE WALKWAY BE INSTALLED THAT IS ALIGNED WITH THE FRONT DOORS THAT FEATURE THREE TO FOUR FEET IN WIDTH. I BELIEVE THAT RACHEL IS ON THE LINE NOW WITH THE APPLICANT. UH, AND THE APPLICANT IS MR. ALEX CRUZ. YES, WE'RE HERE. ALEX, YOU'RE WELCOME TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE COMMISSION AT THIS TIME. HELLO, ALEX. SORRY, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? WE CAN, YES. OKAY, I DIDN'T WANNA INTERRUPT EARLIER. . UM, THERE WAS, UH, UH, UH, THE, SORRY. UH, MY NAME'S ALEX CRUZ, UM, BORN AND RAISED SAN ANTONIO RESIDENT. AND, UH, MY GOD, THANK Y'ALL FOR, FOR STAYING. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN ABOUT FOUR HOURS NOW. I'VE BEEN LISTENING AND, UH, Y'ALL HAVE A LOT OF DIFFICULT DECISIONS TO MAKE, SO I'LL TRY TO MAKE THIS BRIEF. UM, UM, BASICALLY I I SORT OF, UH, SCREWED UP AND, AND, AND HOW I, UH, DID A REMODEL ON THE BACK OF MY HOUSE OF, UH, THE, THE, THE HOUSE THAT I BOUGHT HAD THE, THE SUBFLOOR BASICALLY BROUGHT IT OUT, AND THEN I TRIED TO REMODEL IT. AND, UH, UH, THE, THE, THE THING THAT I, UH, THAT I REALIZED THAT I DID WRONG WAS NOT REALLY RECOGNIZING THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER STEP TO THE PROCESS OTHER THAN, UH, CONFIRMING WITH THE CITY AND, UM, UH, KNOWING THAT, UH, I STILL KNEW THAT I, WE NEEDED TO DO LIKE, KIND OF EVERYTHING WITHIN WHAT, UM, UH, THE, THE, UH, THE INITIAL STRUCTURE LOOKED LIKE, AND THE SAME MATERIALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND WE USED EXACTLY THE SAME WINDOWS, AND WE JUST KIND OF MOVED THEM AROUND. AND WHAT I DIDN'T REALIZE IS MOVING 'EM AROUND WOULD CREATE A PROBLEM IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. AND SO ON. UM, ONE AND TWO, I WOULD SAY THAT'S MY FAULT. I, I, I'LL FIND THE, UH, A WAY TO, TO GET MORE WINDOWS TO, UH, OR, OR MOVE THE WINDOWS THAT WE MOVED INTO THE BACK, UM, UH, STRUCTURE TO, TO MOVE THEM BACK TO THE FRONT. UM, BUT, UH, I'M, I'M HOPING THAT THE, UH, THE STRUCTURE THAT WE PUT IN THE BACK, WHICH IS OUT OF STREET VIEW, UM, IS CONSIDERED, UH, SOMETHING THAT'S OKAY. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I REALLY, I I LOVE THAT AREA [04:05:01] AND, AND THE GOVERNMENT HILL AREA, YOU, YOU HAVE A GOOD LOOK OF DOWNTOWN, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I KIND OF BUILT IT THAT WAY. UM, BUT I'M HOPING THAT, UH, THERE'S THIS CONSIDERATION, UM, TO, UH, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A FLIPPER. I'M, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, BORN AND RAISED SAN ANTONIO AND I, I SERVED IN THE MILITARY HERE RIGHT OFF FOR SAM, SO THANK YOU. EDWARD, DO WE HAVE ANY, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS? WE DO NOT HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THIS CASE, MR. CHAIR, AND MAYBE ALSO TO THE APPLICANT. AGAIN, UM, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UH, IT'S VERY CLEAR. I THINK THIS IS AN EXTENSIVE ADDITION AND AN EXTENSIVE AMOUNT OF WORK, BUT I DON'T MIND SPENDING MORE TIME ON, YOU KNOW, MAYBE CONSIDERING OR LOOKING AT WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE, BUT NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE SOLVED IN THIS MEETING. UM, I WOULD SUGGEST A D R C MAYBE SITE VISIT TO REALLY LOOK AT WHAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE STREET AND WHAT'S NOT. I WOULD LOVE THAT. UM, AND, AND THANK YOU MISS, UM, UH, GROUP. UM, I, I, I WOULD, I WOULD LOVE ANY, ANYBODY TO COME TAKE A LOOK BECAUSE I REALLY DID ACTUALLY TAKE CARE OF THE, IT'S LITERALLY THE SAME SIDING THAT WAS ON, YOU KNOW, UM, THE, THE HOUSE THAT I ASKED THEM TO DO. AND, AND I TOLD 'EM, DON'T USE ANY NEW WINDOWS. THEY, THEY DID USE A NEW ONE SOMEHOW WITHOUT , WITHOUT ME KNOWING ABOUT ON THE EXTENSION WITH THE BATHROOM, WHICH I'D REMOVED. UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, ANY, UH, I'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE ANYONE JUST, UH, COME CHECK IT OUT. BUT THE, THE POWER HAS BEEN CUT OFF TO IT IS, UM, IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM FOR ME AT THE MOMENT. UM, WHICH I CAN'T MOVE BACK IN, OBVIOUSLY WITHOUT POWER. AND SO, UM, THERE'S A WAY TO ALSO, ALSO GET A CONSIDERATION THERE THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. UH, WELL, O H P STAFF, UM, IT, IT, IT APPEARS THAT THE COMMISSION, UH, WILL REFER THIS TO A SUBCOMMITTEE SITE VISIT. UH, SO O H P STAFF WILL SCHEDULE THAT, UH, MOST, UH, PROBABLY FOR NEXT WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. UH, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION AS WELL AS STAFF WILL BE ABLE TO MEET ON SITE, AND THAT SHOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. PERFECT. SOME OF THE ITEMS SO THAT HE CAN START, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY ON THE FRONT WINDOWS, THE APPLICANT IS AGREEING TO, UH, PUT THOSE BACK, OR IS IT BETTER JUST TO DO ALL ON D R C? IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THIS CAN BE SO HE CAN GET ELECTRICITY BACK? IS THAT, THAT'S NOT MY QUESTION. CAN THERE ANYTHING BE DONE THERE? UM, WELL, I THINK, UH, I THINK O H P STAFF CAN, UH, WORK WITH THE APPLICANT AS WELL AS, UH, WORK WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES STAFF. IF THERE NEEDS TO BE A TEMPORARY METER LOOP OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT ON, ON SITE, OBVIOUSLY THE APPLICANT'S NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CORRECT VIOLATIONS IF THERE'S NOT A, YOU KNOW, POWER ON SITE. UH, SO I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THE APPLICANT'S DOING INTERIOR WORK, WHICH IS OUTSIDE OF OUR PURVIEW OR TRYING TO CORRECT VIOLATIONS, I THINK THAT'S FINE. UH, IF, IF THERE IS POWER RESTORED ON SITE, UH, IN, IN SOME, IN SOME MANNER. SO, UM, UH, STAFF CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT IN REGARDS TO THAT. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UM, YES, SIR. MR. HALL. I THINK ONE THING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IN PREPARATION FOR THAT, UH, D R C MEETING WOULD BE IF THE APPLICANT CAN PULL TOGETHER PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE HOUSE PRIOR TO THE ALTERATIONS. AND, UH, SO WE KINDA HAVE A, A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE AND AFTER. UM, AS WELL AS YES, SIR, AS WELL AS A, AS A SITE PLAN THAT HAS SOME CRITICAL CALCULATIONS FOR THE AREA OF THE ADDITION SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT RELATIVE TO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE AND ALSO THE LOT COVERAGE CALCULATION SINCE THOSE ARE TWO, TWO IMPORTANT. UH, 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THIS AS IF, UH, THIS IS JUST A PROPOSAL AND HASN'T BEEN BUILT SINCE IT'S A, IT'S A VIOLATION. I'D LIKE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF IMPORTANT DATA, UH, JUST TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A, A, A BEGINNING POINT FOR THE DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. CERTAINLY. AND, UM, AND, AND JUST QUICKLY, SINCE IT WAS REFERENCED, UM, THERE ARE A FEW, UH, GOOGLE STREET VIEW PHOTOS FROM, UH, MARCH OF 2019 OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. THOSE ARE ON PAGES EIGHT. UM, IF WE CAN, UH, SCROLL DOWN TO PAGE EIGHT REAL QUICK. UH, PAGE EIGHT, UH, NINE, UH, AND 10 IN THE APPLICATION. UH, SO THOSE GIVE THOSE, UH, GENERALLY GIVE A, A RELATIVELY, EXCUSE ME, GOOD IDEA OF, OF HOW THE STRUCTURE EXISTED PRIOR TO, UH, THE MOST RECENT WORK. YES, SIR. I WAS JUST SAYING IF HE HAS [04:10:01] ANY SUPPLEMENTAL IMAGES, EVEN IT'S PICTURES OF HIS DOG FROM THE BACKYARD, JUST SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND CERTAINLY WHAT THE BACK OF THAT. OH, SURE. YEAH, NO, I, I CAN, I CAN GET THAT TOGETHER. SURE. I, I, I HAVE, I HAVE THAT. THANK YOU, SIR. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. AND I'M SORRY, I, I, I SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT, I SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT SUBMITTED BEFORE. I, I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS GONNA BE, BE IN FRONT OF, UH, BE IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION HERE TODAY UNTIL A BIT LATE. THIS IS MY FAULT. SO, UM, I, I'LL GET THAT TOGETHER. THANK YOU. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. I DON'T THINK I DID A MOTION, BUT IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE ACCEPTING IT. I MOVE THIS CASE TO D R C. I'LL SECOND MOTION, SECOND CLARIFICATION. AITE, D R C A SITE. D R C, THE SECOND CONCUR. YES, THE SECOND CONCURS. WITH THAT, THANK YOU. UH, ANY DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. GIBBS? GIBBS AYE. VELASQUEZ AYE. CARPENTER A RUBE AYE. AYE. AND FE AYE. MOTION PASSES. AGENDA ITEM [27. 21-4864 Address/Description: 231 WICKES HDRC Case No.: 2021-320 Historic District Name: King William Applicant: Joe Alderete III Request: Metal roof installation with ridge cap City Council Dist.: 1 ] NUMBER, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 27 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 23 22 31 WIX. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF WITH THE RIDGE CAP. UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION, ONE THAT THE PROPOSED STANDING SEA METAL ROOF FEATURES SMOOTH PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES IN WIDTH SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES IN HEIGHT, A CRIMP RIDGE SEAM, AND A STANDARD GAL BALLOON FINISH. THERE IS NO PUBLIC COMMENT TO BE READ, HOWEVER, THERE IS A LETTER IN YOUR PACKETS FROM THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION NOTING, UH, SUPPORT OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. STEPHANIE IS ON THE LINE NOW WITH THE APPLICANT AND HOMEOWNER, UH, MR. JOE ALDER DAY. AND THIS IS COMING AS A COMPLIANCE CASE, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. THANK YOU. JOE, IF YOU WANTED TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF, YOU CAN DO SO NOW. HELLO, MY NAME'S JOE ALDER. I'M THE HOMEOWNER AT 2 31 WIX. WIX. HELLO? YES, SIR. SO THIS IS CHAIRMAN FETZER. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS, UH, YOU PUT A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF ON THE, ON YOUR PROPERTY WITHOUT, UH, GETTING THE PROPERTY RIGHT? WOULD YOU LIKE FOR ME TO, UH, OKAY. I, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST AN INTRODUCTION OR WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO, TO START? NO, NO, GO AHEAD. I'M SORRY. NO. OKAY. UH, AGAIN, UH, MY NAME IS JOE ETTE. I'M A HOMEOWNER OF 2 31 WIX. UH, WHEN GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, UM, OF REPLACING OUR ROOF, WHICH WAS, UH, OBVIOUSLY DAMAGED DUE TO, UM, UH, THE RECENT HAILSTORMS, UH, WE DECIDED TO GO WITH A GALLO, UH, METAL ROOF STANDING SEAM. AND, UM, HIRED A COMPANY TO DO SO, UH, WAS IN THE PROCESS OF DOING SO. UM, THEY WORKED AT A RAPID PACE. UH, AT THAT POINT THERE WAS A, UH, AN ASSUMPTION ON MY PART THAT, UH, THE PERMIT WAS PULLED, UH, FROM THE, UM, UH, COMPANY OWNER. UH, I SENT CIRCLED BACK WITH THEM A FIRE. I'M A FIREFIGHTER HERE WITH THE CITY. UH, LET ME JUST GIVE YOU THE PLAYOUT OF THE, OF THE DAY. THE DAY THAT THEY CAME TO DO THE, UH, REMOVAL OF THE SHINGLE AND STARTED LAYING THE GALLO, UH, METAL STANDING SEAM ROOF WAS ALL WITHIN ONE DAY. THEY WERE LITERALLY ABLE TO TAKE EVERYTHING OFF THE SHINGLE, SO ON AND SO FORTH, AND THEY WORKED AT A TORRID PACE. THE NEXT DAY I WAS AT THE FIRE STATION FOR 24 HOURS. SO I WAS INDISPOSED UH, AT THAT POINT. THERE WAS A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF, YOU KNOW, 48 HOURS LATER, THERE WAS A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF WORK DONE ON THE PROCESS. APPARENTLY THE COMPANY OWNER CAME ON THAT SECOND DAY TO CHECK OUT THE PROCESS. THE DAY THAT I WAS OBVIOUSLY AT THE FIRE STATION. UH, SUBSEQUENTLY WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS, UH, DIDN'T REALLY INQUIRE ABOUT THE RIDGE CAPS, DIDN'T THINK IT WAS AN ISSUE BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE SO PREVALENT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. AS NOTED IN THE LIST THAT I GAVE YOU, WHICH ARE THE FOUR CONTIGUOUS BLOCKS AROUND MY STREET, UH, AROUND MY HOUSE, UM, UH, IT SEEMED LIKE IT WOULD FIT WITH THE GENERAL AESTHETIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, AND THEN, UH, IT WASN'T UNTIL I WAS NOTIFIED BY O H P THAT THE RIDGE CAP IS WHERE THE, THE, THE PROBLEM WAS. SO THAT KIND OF BACKTRACKED ME IN SAYING, OKAY, WELL, CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS, UM, THAT'S WHERE I, [04:15:01] THAT'S WHERE MY FIRST QUESTION LIES WITH THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THAT IS, IS THAT THROUGH THE KING WILLIAM NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, OR IS THAT LIKE A LEGAL ENTITY WITH THE CITY? THAT IS THROUGH THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THE CITY. OKAY. IT'S NOT THROUGH KING WILLIAM AT ALL? NO, SIR. OKAY. UM, SO ESSENTIALLY, UH, WE WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS WAS, UH, UH, THEY RICH CAPPED THE STANDING THING, METAL ROOF, AND HERE WE ARE. OKAY, THANK YOU. YEAH, AND TO CLARIFY THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION THERE, IT'S, IT'S PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS. SO IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT ALONG THE WAY BEFORE A PERMIT WAS GIVEN THAT THIS HAD TO GO TO HISTORICAL DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION, OR AT LEAST TO O H P FOR, FOR REVIEW. THAT MAKES SENSE. SURE. SO WAS IT A, UH, A SHINGLE ROOF? THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, BY THE WAY. I'M SORRY, WAS, WAS IT ORIGINALLY A SHINGLE ROOF? YES, IT WAS A SHINGLE ROOF. OKAY. AND, UM, UH, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR STAFF. THE, THE, THE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF THAT WE'RE SEEING HERE, DOES IT HAVE THOSE, UH, RE RELIEF STRIATIONS IN THE PANELS, OR ARE THEY JUST FLAT PANELS WITH, UH, CRIMP STANDING SEEN? UH, UH, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, AND FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I DON'T NEED, I'LL NEED TO ZOOM IN ON THIS PHOTO, BUT I BELIEVE THEY ARE, THEY ARE ONLY, UH, THE ONLY PRIMARY VIOLATION, UH, THAT EXISTS HERE IS THE PANELS ARE INSTALLED OR THAT THE RIDGE IS INSTALLED WITH THE, WITH THE RIDGE CAP. UH, I DO BELIEVE THE PANELS WERE, THE PANELS ARE SMOOTH, RIGHT? GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF WHAT I HAD HEARD THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT Y'ALL, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ON THE LINE WITH YOU GUYS FOR FOUR HOURS NOW. THERE'S NO STRIATIONS, THE, THE MEASUREMENTS OF THE STAIN. I ACTUALLY HAD TIME TO GO OUT THERE AND LOOK AT THE MEASUREMENTS, ACTUALLY MEASURE THEM OFF MY GARAGE, SO ON AND SO FORTH. THE ONLY THING IS THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL RIDGE CAP ITSELF. NOW, UH, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE I WAS, YOU KNOW, JUST ANECDOTALLY I WAS GIVEN THE OPTION BECAUSE THEY CAME OUT WITH THE BIG ROLLER. THESE WERE NOT PRE CUT. UH, YOU KNOW HOW YOU WERE, UH, ONE OF THE, UH, GENTLEMEN WAS, UH, REFERRING TO THE RICH CAPSULE OR PREFABRICATED IN THREE BENDS, UH, AND THEN IT CAUSED A BEND IN THE, IN THE SEAM. MINE ARE NOT DONE THAT WAY. THEY ARE ALL ONE CONTIGUOUS PIECE, UH, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, IN MOST PARTS OF THE HOME. UM, THE, THE, THE PART THAT, UH, THE ANECDOTAL PART WAS THAT THE GENTLEMAN ASKED ME, HEY, DO YOU WANT THESE STRIATIONS OR BUMPS OR, OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PUT IT IN THE METAL? AND I WAS THINKING TO MYSELF, NO, THAT DOESN'T THINK, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WILL FLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. 'CAUSE I DIDN'T SEE THAT AROUND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? I DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, THINK THAT THAT WAS NUMBER ONE, IT WAS AN OPTION, BUT NUMBER TWO, IT JUST DIDN'T FIT WITH THE AESTHETIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO HAVE THOSE STRIATIONS ON THERE. UH, SO AGAIN, THE ONLY THING IS THAT, THAT THAT PHYSICAL RIDGE CAP AT THE TOP, AGAIN, IT'S MY JUST PERSONAL OPINION THAT IT LOOKS A LOT CLEANER. IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO WHEN PEOPLE PUT A CEDAR POST PICKET FENCE UP AND THEY JUST LEAVE THE DOG EARS AT THE TOP. VERSUS THEY'LL, SOMETIMES THEY'LL PUT A RIDGE CAP OR A, A WOODEN TWO BY FOUR AT THE TOP AND CLEAN IT OFF, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT, UH, MORE SYMMETRICAL LOOKING MORE SO THAN ANYTHING ELSE. UM, I'VE NOTICED, AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THE CRIMPED TOP, UH, IT, IT, IT LEANS ITSELF TO WHAT ARE CALLED WAVES IN THE INDUSTRY, UH, THE ROOFING INDUSTRY, THAT IT, IT KIND OF HIGHLIGHTS THOSE WAVES WITH THE RIDGE CAP, SINCE THEY'RE LINEAR AND SYMMETRICAL. IT GIVES THE APPEARANCE OF A CLEAN, UH, A, A CLEAN LINE VERSUS, UH, SOMETIMES WITH THOSE OTHER, UH, OTHER VARIATIONS. IT DOESN'T. UM, AGAIN, JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION, THIS COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, IT'S, IT'S DONE VERY WELL. THE, THE LINES ARE NICE. THE, THE HEIGHT OF THE, OF THE, OF THE SEAMS ARE, ARE REALLY NICE, BUT, YOU KNOW, AND THE RICH CAP'S THERE. SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT CAN BE SAID ABOUT IT, BUT WHAT THE RICH CAP DOES IS IT, IT INTRODUCES A WEIGHT TO THE TOP OF THE ROOF THAT REALLY WANTS TO DISAPPEAR INTO THE SKY, SEE? SO THAT, THAT SHADOW, IT, IT LIKE SHUTS YOUR HOUSE DOWN WHEN YOUR, WHEN YOUR ROOF REALLY WANTS TO, JUST KIND OF WANTS TO DISAPPEAR INTO THE PAINT'S GRAY, YOU KNOW, OR, OR CONTRAST WITH THE BLUE SKY. SO IT, IT, IT, IT REALLY DOES NOT ADD, IT TAKES AWAY FROM, FROM THE KIND OF THE, ALL THE BREAKS AND THIS IN THIS REALLY PRETTY HIGH PITCHED ROOF. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT ABOUT A THING LIKE THAT. UH, BECAUSE, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, WHEN THEY DO THAT, I THINK THAT, THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THEY DO THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO GO THROUGH THE HASSLE OF CRIMPING THAT TOP RIDGE, WHICH IS NOT EASY TO DO. RIGHT? SO THEY PUT A CAP ON IT. THAT'S CORRECT. BUT THE CAP WORKS IN A, IN A CONTEMPORARY, [04:20:01] IN A CONTEMPORARY, LIKE SAY IT WAS A STONE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, CONTEMPORARY HOUSE WITH A COLORED, YOU KNOW, ROOF, LIKE THE ONE THAT LADY WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, A RICH CAP IN THOSE CONTEXTS, THEY REALLY WORK. BUT IN THESE CLASSIC HOUSES, YOU CAN SEE HOW IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEBODY'S, SOMEBODY DREW IT AND THEY USED A BLACK MARKER TO LIE TO, TO, TO RENDER THE TOP OF IT, WHICH YOU WOULD NEVER DO. NO, I SEE YOUR OPINION. I HEAR YOUR OPINION, AND IT ACTUALLY MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. I, I DEFINITELY THINK THAT, THAT, UH, YEAH, I CAN SEE WHERE, YOU KNOW, EXACTLY THAT MARKER REFERENCE. UH, I THINK, UH, IS, IS A GOOD POINT. UM, UH, I MEAN, NOTING IT, WHEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE POINTING IT OUT LIKE THAT, IT DOES MAKE SENSE TO, TO THAT CERTAIN DEGREE. HOWEVER, I'M STILL, UH, UH, I MEAN, UNDER THE OPINION AGAIN THAT IT JUST, IT, IT SEEMS A LOT CLEANER CAPPED OFF. I, I GET WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND, AND I AGREE WITH YOU TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. UH, I, I JUST FEEL THAT, UH, OPINION WISE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, LISTEN, WHEN I WALK THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WE HAVE, I, I COUNTED SEVEN DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF, UH, GALLO, METAL RIDGE CAPPED ROOFS, SEVEN, NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, RIDGE CAPPED WITH WHATEVER YOU, YOU'LL HAVE OTHER PEOPLE WITH LIKE ORNATE, UH, UH, SERPENTINE LOOKING, UM, RIDGE CAPS. YOU'LL HAVE DIFFERENT COLORED, UH, GALLAGHER METAL ROOFS. UH, YOU'LL HAVE, YOU KNOW, ANTIQUATED, UH, BEAT DOWN KIND OF ROOF, SO ON AND SO FORTH. AND I WAS TRYING TO KIND OF, UH, STAY IN THE MIDDLE MORE SO THAN ANYTHING ELSE. AND YOU'LL NOTE EVEN THE NEW TOWN HOMES THAT ARE BUILT AT THE CORNER, WHICH I INCLUDED THE ADDRESS ON, UH, AT SOUTH ALAMO AND GUNTHER, THOSE BRAND NEW TOWN, WELL, NOT BROWN, NEW TOWN HOMES, THE TOWN HOMES THAT ARE UP, UH, EVEN HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN REMODELED, UH, WHILE WE'VE BEEN IN THIS HOUSE FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS. ONE RIGHT THERE AT THE CONSTANT STREET BRIDGE ON THE CORNER OF GUNTHER AND EAGLE LAND. UM, THAT ONE HAS BEEN REMODELED, UH, NEWER THAN, THAN OURS HAD BEEN REMODELED. AND SO THAT'S WHERE I BELIEVE SOME OF THE ASSUMPTION CAME IN, UH, THAT THE RIDGE CAP WAS A, A, AN APPROPRIATE, UH, OR ACCEPTABLE, UM, UH, PART OF THE ROOFING BECAUSE IT WAS SO PREVALENT IN THE AREA, AS NOTED WITH THE ADDRESSES THAT I GAVE. SO THIS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER AGAIN, UH, YES, I, YEAH, IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO KNOW WHEN THOSE, UH, OTHER ROADS WERE DONE AND, AND, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS. SO WE CAN'T REALLY SPEAK TO THOSE. WE HAVE TO TRY TO KEEP WITH THE GUIDELINES, BUT I, I AGREE WITH, UH, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER THAT THE, THE, THE ROOFING JOB THAT WAS DONE HERE IS VERY WELL DONE. WE'VE SEEN OTHER PEOPLE COME IN WITH WHERE IT'S OIL CANNING AND IT'S A MESS. AND CLEARLY SOMEONE INCOMPETENT, UH, PUT THE ROOF UP. IN THIS CASE YOU HAD A COMPETENT ROOF ROOFER. IT'S TIGHT AND CLEAN. I WOULD WONDER IF MAYBE, UH, A, A COMPROMISE HERE WOULD BE, I THINK THE THING THAT IS SORT OF MOST DISTRACTING FOR ME IN YOUR PARTICULAR INSTALLATION IS THAT FRONT GABLE, THE FRONT PEDIMENT HAS A TERMINUS PIECE AT THE, AT THE, AT THE RIDGE CAP, THAT IF YOUR ROOFER COULD COME BACK AND DO SOMETHING THAT IS A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE TYPE, UH, DETAILING THAT YOU SEE ON THAT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO GUIDELINES, PAGE 10. UM, OKAY. AND TO SEE IF HE COULD PUT JUST A, AN EXTRA FOLDED PIECE OF METAL RATHER THAN THAT SORT OF LITTLE MINIATURE DOGHOUSE TERMINUS PIECE THAT REALLY JUST CALLS ATTENTION TO IT, BUT HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS, IS A TIGHTER, UH, MORE COM YOU KNOW, UH, CONFORMING CRIMPED PIECE THAT, THAT EXTENDS, UH, THE GEOMETRIES OF THE PEDIMENT RATHER THAN BRINGS SOMETHING DOWN IN FRONT OF IT, IF, IF I'M MAKING ANY SENSE. SO IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY, SO I MAY BE BABBLING AT THIS POINT. UH, I AGREE WITH YOU, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I, I CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AS YOU SEE RIGHT AWAY. I, I, I GOT, I KIND OF GOT LOST THERE, GENTLEMEN. UH, IT SEEMED, IT SOUNDED JUST A BIT MUFFLED. SO, UH, IF YOU COULD, UM, UH, SURE. OH, DO YOU CURRENTLY HAVE A VIDEO FEED? CAN YOU SEE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW? YES. I CAN SEE THE VIDEO FEED CORRECT. OKAY. SO THAT TRIANGULAR FACE, UH, OF THE ROOF THERE, THAT'S CALLED A PEDIMENT AND SEE HOW THEY'VE BROUGHT THE, THE RIDGE CAP AND FOLDED IT DOWN AND CREATED THAT SORT OF FIVE-SIDED LITTLE PIECE UP THERE. YES. OKAY. OKAY. NOW, DEPENDING ON HOW INTEGRAL THAT IS, I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN GO BACK TO YOUR, YOUR ROOFING CONTRACTOR HERE AND SAY, CAN YOU ALL TAKE THAT OFF? 'CAUSE TYPICALLY THOSE ARE A, THAT'S A THIRD PIECE THAT SLID OVER THE, THE TERMINUS, THE END OF THE, OF THE PANELS AND FASHION, SOMETHING THAT IS A FI, A FINER, FLATTER, SEAMED PIECE, UH, THAT DOESN'T FLA OVER THE TRIM WORK OF THAT PEDIMENT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? [04:25:02] YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE. AND I, I CAN GO BACK AND ASK. UH, I, I, I WILL TELL YOU GENTLEMEN, I DON'T KNOW IF ANY ANY, ANY OR ANY, ANYBODY, ANYBODY IN THE BOARD, UH, UH, MEN, WOMEN, UH, YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH SURGERY, YOU CUT IT. IT'S NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME AS WHEN YOU GO BACK IN. THAT'S JUST MY GENERAL KIND OF ANECDOTAL FEEL ABOUT THIS. UH, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY PLACED IT IN PLACE FOR A REASON. UH, THAT'S UNBEKNOWNST TO ME BECAUSE I'M NOT IN THAT ROOFING INDUSTRY. UH, BUT IT, UH, I, I WOULD JUST, UH, I MEAN, I CONTACTED THE ROOFING COMPANY, OBVIOUSLY. I, UH, READ HIM THE RIOT ACT AFTER I FOUND OUT THAT, UH, THERE, THE, THE, THE BUILDING PERMIT OR THE PERMIT WAS NOT PULLED. UM, AND, AND, AND ESSENTIALLY KIND OF WENT DOWN THAT PATH WITH THEM TO SAY, HEY, LISTEN, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF, UH, ASSUMPTION AND DEPENDENCY ON YOUR COMPANY, UH, DOING THIS. BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF Y'ALL'S NOTED THE WORK WAS, IS GOOD WORK, UM, THEY CAME OUT WITH THE ALUMINUM ROLLS AND THEY, THESE WERE NOT PRE-CUT, UH, PIECES. THEY WERE MEASURED AND CUT ON SITE AND, AND CRIMPED ON SITE. UH, SO I WAS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION WITH ALL THESE THINGS GOING THAT WAY, THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT WAS GONNA BE DONE TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY. AND NOW TO KIND OF GO BACK, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE IF IT'S GONNA CREATE ANY MORE WEAKNESSES, UH, IF IT'S GOING TO DO ANY OF THESE OTHER THINGS THAT MAY JEOPARDIZE THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE ROOF THAT THEY JUST PUT ON. I E DO YOU KNOW, THE EXAMPLE OF, YOU KNOW, ANY TYPE OF SURGERY, YOU KNOW, YOU GO IN THERE AND YOU CUT IT, UH, IT'S, IT'S NEVER GONNA BE THE SAME AS IT ONCE WAS BEFORE. SO THAT'S MY FEAR. UH, IF I COULD GET TALKED OUTTA THAT BY SOMEBODY ELSE IN THE ROOFING INDUSTRY, THAT WOULD MAKE ALL THE SENSE IN THE WORLD. BUT THAT'S MY KIND OF GENERAL FEAR IF THEY GO BACK AND DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ALRIGHT, SO I, I UNDERSTAND AND I APPRECIATE THE ANALOGY, UM, BUT I'M TRYING TO FIND A COMPROMISE HERE THAT, UH, MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, ACCEPTABLE TO EVERYONE THAT, THAT FRONT FACING GABLE, THAT FRONT RIDGE THERE IS ACTUALLY GOT A PRETTY SHORT RUN TO IT. SO EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO TAKE THAT WHOLE PIECE OFF AND THEN FASHION A NEW PIECE THAT IS MORE, UH, TAILORED, THAT'S A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE THAN SOME OF THE OTHER OPTIONS THAT COULD BE, UH, DISCUSSED. SO COMMISSIONER CARPENTER? YES. COMMISSIONER VELA, I I COM I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU. NICO COULD GO BACK TO THAT PICTURE, EDWARD OR WHOEVER, UM, UH, IT, IT COMES DOWN TO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, IF, IF INDEED THE, THE CONTRACTOR DID IT WITHOUT PERMITS THEN, AND, AND IT WAS IN, IN THE OBLIGATIONS THAT THE, THAT THE CONTRACTOR WAS THE ONE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO GET THE PERMITS, HE SHOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM. UH, UH, FIXING, UH, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN JUST THAT. I, I'M JUST AGREE. ASK YOU COMMISSIONER, UH, CARPENTER. THERE, THERE, THERE ALSO SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING, AN ERROR, UH, ON THE, ON THE BOTTOM LINE OF THE BLUE SHAKE, UH, RIGHT THERE UNDER THE LITTLE YELLOW WINDOW. THAT PIECE OF TRIM DOES NOT LOOK LIKE IT'S DONE PROPERLY. YEAH, IT SHOULD, IT SHOULD BE TUCKED UP UNDERNEATH. YEAH. SHINGLES. AND IT LOOKS LIKE THEY CUT THE SHINGLES, RIGHT? THEY CUT THE SHINGLES SHORT. RIGHT. PUT THAT IN. AND IT LOOKS LIKE, LIKE IT'S, IT'S NOT THAT IT'S OPEN. IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S OPEN TO RECEIVE WATER ON THE MIDDLE END, ON THE MIDDLE SIDE OF IT. IT'S ACTUALLY RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I'VE NOTICED THAT WHEN Y'ALL POINTED IT OUT, YEAH, THAT'S PROPER RIGHT THERE. THAT PICTURE, THAT'S HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DONE. NOT LIKE THAT. THE OTHER PICTURE, THAT PICTURE, THAT'S HOW THE ROOF IS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE. SO THE SHAKE THE SHAKE, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU FIGURED THAT THE, THAT THE, THAT THE SHINGLE HITS THE ROOF, IT'S GONNA ROT OR WHATEVER. BUT THAT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY BECAUSE THE, THE, YOUR, YOUR SHEATH, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR FLASHING GOES UNDERNEATH IT. SO YEAH, THERE'S NOT, THERE'S NOT A PROPER LAP TO THAT. SO THAT, THAT IS, UH, AN ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE WITH YOUR ROOFING CONTRACTOR TO SAY, HEY, YEAH, YOU DID A, YOU DID A NICE, YOU KNOW, CLEAN JOB HERE. BUT THERE'S THESE TWO ITEMS I NEED YOU TO FIX TO GET ME OFF THE HOOK WITH, UH, O H P ONE IS A TECHNICAL ONE WHERE YOU NEED A LAP AND FLASH THE, THE, UH, THAT, UH, GABLE FACE PROPERLY UP UNDERNEATH THE SHINGLES, NOT ON TOP OF IT. AND TWO, FIX THAT FRONT FACING RIDGE SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A TERMINATING PIECE OF TRIM THAT FLAPS OVER THE, THE IMPEDIMENT TRIM. CAN YOU ? I, I WAS TALKING TO MY NEIGHBOR. I WAS TALKING TO MY NEIGHBOR WHO OWNS SEVERAL HOUSES IN THE KING WILLIAM AREA, AND HE SAID THAT, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY OB OBVIOUSLY SUBSEQUENTLY, AFTER I INFORMED HIM THAT, YOU KNOW, I WAS GOING BEFORE H D R C, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE ACTUAL RIDGE CAP ITSELF TRIANGLE LOOKING, FACING FRONT, HE ESSENTIALLY, HE ESSENTIALLY WENT IN AND CLIPPED IT AT THE ANGLE THAT THE ROOF LINE IS AT. UH, I, I, IS THAT WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THIS? I, I'M STILL A LITTLE CONFUSED. I'M, I'M LOOKING FOR VIABLE OPTIONS OR ALTERNATIVES. UH, AND SO I, I, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS AN OPTION. YES. THAT THAT IS A POTENTIAL OPTION. AND, AND I'M GONNA TRY TO MAKE A MOTION HERE SO THAT WE CAN ALL GO HOME SOON. BUT THAT GIVES YOU ENOUGH LEADWAY TO, TO, EXCUSE ME, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, BEFORE YOU [04:30:01] MAKE A MOTION. MM-HMM. . YES, SIR. UH, A NOTE, THIS IS ON A CORNER LOT AND THERE ARE TWO SIDE FACING GABLES WITH THE SAME DETAILS. YEAH. WELL, , THAT'S THE THING, RIGHT? THEY GOTTA DO FIX 'EM. THAT'S A TINY DETAIL WITH THE END CAPS AND THE FLASHING ISSUES. YES. I, I, UM, I ASSUMED IT WAS A CORNER LOT, MR. CHAIR. THE THING, THE THING ABOUT THE FLASHING DETAIL IS THAT IT'S JUST, IT'S INCORRECT. SO EVEN, EVEN AS A PRODUCT, I MEAN, I, I DON'T THINK THAT, THAT WE'RE ABLE TO TELL THE, THE, THE APPLICANT, HEY, YOUR CONTRACTOR MADE A MISTAKE. SO THAT'S NOT THE WAY THAT I'M, I'M COMMUNICATING THAT. THE WAY I'M COMMUNICATING IT IS THAT THAT IS NOT A PROPER DETAIL PERIOD. THAT WOULD NOT BE IN OUR MOTION. THE MOTION WOULD BE DEALING WITH THE RIDGE CAP. THAT'S NOT OUR OBLIGATION TO, TO QUALITY CONTROL HIS, HIS ROOF CONTRACTOR. SO, UM, LET ME SEE IF I CAN INFORM A MOTION HERE. UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH THE, UH, STIPULATION THAT THE GABLE TERMINUS PIECES BE FABRICATED IN A WAY THAT CONFORMS WITH THE GEOMETRY OF THE PEDIMENTS AND DOES NOT FLAP OVER OR CONCEAL ANY ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS. I, I'LL SECOND THAT. UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I, I HOPE THAT THERE WAS A WAY TO ADD THAT THEY COME BACK AND FIX THAT, THAT SHAKE LINE BECAUSE, WELL, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HE NEEDS TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH HIS CONTRACTOR ABOUT. YEAH. THAT, THAT DON'T, UH, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT. UH, UH, UH, PEOPLE OR COMMISSION , SORRY, PEOPLE, UH, COMMISSION. I, I, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU THERE. AS SOON AS I LAID MY EYES ON IT RIGHT NOW, I WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THAT PART. I THINK I WAS JUST SO, UH, KIND OF, UH, UH, IN TUNE WITH THE, THE BIGGER JOB. I DID NOT NOTICE THAT LITTLE PIECE THAT Y'ALL POINTED OUT RIGHT NOW, BUT NOW THAT'S KIND OF CRAWLING UNDER MY SKIN LOOKING AT THAT. SO I'M DEFINITELY GONNA CALL HIM BACK TO SEE HOW WE CAN GET THAT, UH, FIXED UP, UH, UH, 'CAUSE THAT, THAT PART DOES NOT LOOK LIKE, UH, IT DOES NOT MAKE ME HAPPY WHEN I SEE THAT PART RIGHT NOW. I JUST WAS SO, YOU KNOW, WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, UM, UH, HOUSE, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IT'S TECHNICALLY ADDRESSED OFF OF WIX, THE FRONT OF MY HOUSE IS ON STEERING, UM, UH, AND IT USED TO BE A DOUBLE ADDRESS OF ONE 15 STEERING AND 2 31 WIX. UM, AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE ENTER IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THE GARAGE AND THE EXIT. YOU KNOW, WE, WE WERE ON THAT SIDE. SO THIS, THE WIX FACING SIDE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE, UH, WE WALK MUCH, WE WALK OUR DOG IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. WE GO TO, YOU KNOW, ALAMO GELATO IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, SO ON AND SO FORTH. THIS IS KIND OF, UH, THE FORGOTTEN SIDE OF THE, UH, HOUSE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THE, UM, THE ADDRESS SIDE. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. COULD, UH, I'M, I'M SORRY, CHAIRMAN, UH, COULD STAFF INTERRUPT? I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE, UH, THE MOTION, UH, RECORDED CORRECTLY IN THE EVENT THAT IT DOES PASS. AND THAT IS, UH, APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE GABLE TERMINUS PIECES, SO BASICALLY THE END CAPS BE FABRICATED OR TAPERED IN A WAY THAT FORMS WITH THE GEOMETRY OF THE RIDGE. CORRECT. AND DO NOT LAP THE, THE FASCIA BOARDS OF THE, WITH THE GEOMETRY OF THE GABLE. YEAH. THANK YOU. SO THAT, THAT APPEARS JUST FROM THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS, WE'RE DELAYED IN WITH THREE OF THOSE TERMINUS PIECES, THOSE THAT HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED. THANK YOU. YEAH. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. BB AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. RUBE AYE. AND FED NAY. MOTION PASSES. MOTION PASSES. UH, SO COMMISSIONERS, [Approval of HDRC Meeting Minutes for July 7, 2021. ] UM, YOU CAN DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. THE LAST ITEM THAT WE HAVE, UH, ON TODAY'S AGENDA IS THE APPROVAL OF THE H D R C MINUTES FROM THE JULY 7TH, 2 20 21 H D R C HEARING. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FERNANDEZ. UH, MOTION TO APPROVE MEETING MINUTES FROM JULY 7TH, 2021. COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, CARPENTER. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A DUELING SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES. MOTION TO ADJOURN. ADJOURN. VOTE FOR ADJOURNMENT. SECOND. ALRIGHT, MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU ALL HAVE A GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU EVERYONE, AND THANK YOU FOR, UH, BEARING WITH ANY BUMPS THAT I MAY HAVE CAUSED. OKAY, GOOD, SIR. YOU DID A GREAT JOB. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [04:35:01] THANK YOU. Y'ALL HAVE A GREAT REST OF THE WEEK. YOU TOO. BYE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.