* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] I'M JEFF, CAN GO AHEAD AND CALL US TO ORDER. [Roll Call] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 1ST, 2021. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ HERE. FISH. HERE. GIBBS? HERE. QUEZ? HERE. OLA. HERE. CARPENTER. HERE. GROUP. HERE. ZER HERE. THE PHONE. THAT'S QUORUM. UM, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I'M, I'LL ASK ONE OF OUR TRANSLATORS TO COME UP AND GIVE US A BRIEF GENERAL STATEMENT ABOUT TRANSLATION SERVICES THAT ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETING WHEN I THANK YOU. CAN WE PLEASE [Chairman’s Statement] HAVE THE CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT? THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN, AND THE VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY, AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL IN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE DUE TO UNEXPECTED TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES, TODAY'S MEETING IS UNABLE TO BE LIVE STREAMED. FOLLOWING THE MEETING, A RECORDING WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE IN ORDER TO PROVIDE REMOTE ACCESS. A WEBEX MEETING LINK HAS BEEN POSTED TO OH P'S WEBSITE, FACEBOOK PAGE, AND DISTRIBUTED BY E-BLAST. THE PUBLIC CAN VIEW THE MEETING BY FOLLOWING THE LINK AND ENTERING THE PASSWORD. H D R C DOES THAT NEED TO BE CAPITALIZED? CORRECT. ALL CAPITALIZED. H D R C. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH, SPANISH AND ENGLISH. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT REQUIRE TRANSLATION SERVICES, THE INTERPRETER WILL TRANSLATE OVER THE PHONE AS NECESSARY IN AN EFFORT TO HEAR ALL CASES ON THE AGENDA, AS WELL AS TO MINIMIZE THE LENGTH OF THE MEETING, APPLICANTS WILL NEED TO SUMMARIZE THEIR STATEMENTS AND BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE SPEAKING IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION EACH HAVE A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES FOR THEIR COMMENTS, AND EACH COMMISSIONER WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS REGARDING EACH APPLICATION. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME, I'LL ASK O H P STAFF TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR TODAY'S MEETING. WELL, THANK YOU. IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL IN PERSON. UM, I KNOW THIS WASN'T EASY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND AND WE APPRECIATE ANY SACRIFICES YOU MADE TO BE HERE WITH US TODAY. UM, AND WE ARE DOING SOME NEW THINGS, UH, WITH TECHNOLOGY TODAY, SO PLEASE BEAR WITH US AS WE KIND OF WORK THROUGH THOSE ISSUES. UM, ON THIS SCREEN, YOU SHOULD SEE OUR CASE LIST FOR TODAY. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE'VE HAD, UH, 19 ITEMS POSTED ON THE GISETTE AGENDA. ITEM 19 WILL BE HEARD INDIVIDUALLY AT THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT. UM, THEY DO NOT AGREE TO STAFF STIPULATIONS, UM, AS AN UPDATE FOR OTHER ITEMS. ITEM 25 0 3 URBAN LO HAS LOOP. URBAN LOOP HAS BEEN POSTPONED AND WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. UM, WE DID RECEIVE SEVERAL VOICEMAILS, UM, BOTH IN SUPPORT AND OPPOSITION. THOSE VOICEMAILS WILL BE SAVED AND PLAYED AT THE NEXT MEETING THAT THAT ITEM IS HEARD. UM, IF ANYBODY WHO LEFT A VOICEMAIL WANTS TO UPDATE THE RECORDING, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO DO THAT AS WELL BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING. UM, ITEM 25 THROUGH 27 EAST KING CO. EAST KINGS HIGHWAY HAS BEEN POSTPONED BY THE APPLICANT AND WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. UM, YOU DO HAVE ONE LETTER IN YOUR PACKETS REGARDING THAT ITEM AND THEN ITEM 28, 2 0 7 CLUB HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN AND WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. [Public Comments] UM, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO NEXT IS GO DOWN THE LIST OF, UM, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS RECEIVED FOR ITEMS ON CONSENT. UM, WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF VOICEMAILS TO PLAY, UM, AS WELL AS ONE PERSON SIGNED IN FOR ITEM SIX AND, UH, SPEAKERS FOR ITEM SEVEN AS WELL. UM, LET'S GO AHEAD AND DO THOSE, BUT, UM, CHAIRMAN FETZER, I BELIEVE YOU HAD A REQUEST FOR ITEM SEVEN TO BE HEARD INDIVIDUALLY. YES. I'D LIKE TO PULL THAT FOR INDIVIDUAL, UH, CONSIDERATION, SO [00:05:01] WE'LL SAVE THOSE PUBLIC COMMENTS UNTIL THAT ITEM IS HEARD INDIVIDUALLY. UM, SO UP FIRST, LET'S PLAY, UH, THE VOICEMAIL FOR ITEM THREE, UH, FIVE 15 NORTH MONUMENTAL. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. THIS IS SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. MY COMMENTS ARE FOR ITEM THREE AT FIVE 15 NORTH MONUMENTAL. WE GENERALLY SUPPORT STAFF AT THIS BUILDING'S MASSING SCALE, ROOF PITCH, ET CETERA IS APPROPRIATE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE APPLICANT'S APPLICATION FOR APPROVAL AND RECOMMEND AT THAT TIME. THE APPLICANT INCLUDE APPROPRIATE FENESTRATION WINDOW TYPES AND SIZES, LOT COVERAGE, APPROPRIATE FOUNDATION HEIGHT, ET CETERA. THANK YOU. WAS THAT LEGIBLE FOR PEOPLE? OKAY, LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE. SO ITEM FOUR. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. THIS IS SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGVILLE HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THESE COMMENTS ARE FOR ITEM FOUR OR 11 NORTH MONUMENTAL. WE GENERALLY SUPPORT STAFF THAT THIS BUILDING'S MASSING SCALE, ROOF PITCH, ET CETERA, AS APPROPRIATE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE APPLICANT'S APPLICATION FOR APPROVAL AND RECOMMEND AT THAT TIME. THE APPLICANT INCLUDED APPROPRIATE FENESTRATION WINDOW TYPES AND SIZES AND A PORCH ROOF WITH A SLIGHT PITCHING HIP AS FOUND ON MOST HISTORIC HOMES AND DIGNITY HILL. THANK YOU. I NEXT FOR ITEM SIX, WE HAVE RENEE NIRA. MR. NIRA, YOU CAN APPROACH THE PODIUM AND GIVE TWO MINUTE COMMENTS. NERA, YES, I, I, I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY EXCEPT THAT. UM, I GO TO STINSON AIRPORT A LOT. I'M A STUDENT AT U T S A AND I GO THERE TO STUDY A LOT. IT'S A VERY PEACEFUL PLACE, AIRPLANES AND ALL THAT. AND I LOVE THE PLACE, I LOVE THE AIRPORT AND, AND I LOVE TO SEE THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE, UH, LATELY. UH, I THINK IT'S A, IT REALLY IS A HISTORIC PLACE. IT'S A, IT'S A, IT SHOULD BE A, A, A, A TOURIST, UH, DESTINATION, UH, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT IT'S BEEN, THE AREA HAS BEEN DECLARED, UH, WHAT IT HERITAGE, WHAT IT, UH, SO MY, THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT, UH, I'M VERY GLAD TO SEE ANY IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE BEING DONE IN, IN THE AIR IN STINSON AIRPORT. PLEASE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, I BELIEVE THAT CONCLUDES EVERYTHING THAT WE HAD FOR CONSENT. AGENDA ITEMS. [CONSENT AGENDA] MR. CHAIRMAN, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH SIX AND EIGHT THROUGH 18 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. I SECOND. I SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. FISH? FISH. AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. OLA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. ZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 10 0 7 AVENUE B 1523 WEST ROSEWOOD, FIVE 15 NORTH, MONUMENTAL, FOUR 11 NORTH MONUMENTAL, 8 75 EAST ASHBY, 85 35 MISSION ROAD, FIVE 10 EAST GUNTHER THREE 17 WIX, TWO 12 NORTH ALAMO, 9 0 1 CAMDEN, 5 0 9 EAST EVERGREEN, 2 25 WEST ELSMERE PLACE, 2102 MCCULLOUGH, EIGHT 15 EAST MAGNOLIA, 1423 SOUTH ELLISON, TWO 15 NELSON, AND 8 8 31 EAST MAGNOLIA. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU NO LONGER NEED TO ATTEND THE MEETING IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF O H P STAFF. YOUR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER OR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. GOTTA GET USED TO THIS. OKAY. [7. Address/Description: 9290 LESLIE RD HDRC Case No.: 2021298 Applicant: Office of Historic Preservation Request: Recommendation for historic landmark designation City Council Dist.: 7] SO THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM SEVEN, WHICH IS PULLED BY CHAIRMAN FETZER. UM, JESS IS GOING TO SIT DOWN AND READ THE CASE INTO THE RECORD FOR US, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE THE APPLICANT PRESENT. [00:10:13] ITEM SEVEN ON THE H D R C AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 2 98. 92 90 LESLIE ROAD, RECOMMENDATION FOR HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION. THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS REQUESTING A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION REGARDING DESIGNATION OF THE PROPERTY AT 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. STAFF RECOMMENDS A HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF 92 90 LESLIE ROAD BASED ON FINDING A, AND I HAVE A SHORT PRESENTATION FOR THE COMMISSION AS WELL. THE PROPERTY AT 92 90 LESLIE INCLUDES A RESIDENCE, SEVERAL OUTBUILDINGS AND A LOW STACKED STONE WALL ON JUST OVER 12 ACRES. THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS A SINGLE STORY STUCCO CLAD LIMESTONE DOG TROTT FOLK HOUSE BUILT CIRCUIT 1885 FOR THE GIL BOWS. IT IS LOCATED IN CITY COUNCIL. DISTRICT SEVEN, BOWEN KREMER CURRENTLY OWNS THE PROPERTY. THE REQUEST FOR A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE WAS HEARD BY H D R C ON DECEMBER 16TH, 2020. H D R C FOUND THE STRUCTURE ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION AND RECOMMENDED CITY COUNCIL DIRECT STAFF TO BEGIN THE REZONING PROCESS. CITY COUNCIL AGREED WITH H D R C AND DIRECTED STAFF TO BEGIN THE REZONING PROCESS ON JUNE 17TH. THE PROPERTY OWNER IS OPPOSED A DESIGNATION, AS I MENTIONED ON DECEMBER 16TH, 2020. THE H D R C FOUND THE STRUCTURE ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION UNDER FIVE CRITERIA TODAY. THE ITEM BEFORE THE COMMISSION IS CITY COUNCIL'S DIRECTION TO INITIATE A CHANGE IN ZONING, O H P REQUESTED A REVIEW OF ELIGIBILITY FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES FROM THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. GREG SMITH, FEDERAL PROGRAMS COORDINATOR FOR T H C FOUND THE PROPERTY ELIGIBLE UNDER CRITERIA A AND C AS WELL AS POSSIBLE ELIGIBILITY UNDER A SECOND AREA OF CRITERION A PROPERTIES THAT MEET THE GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR LISTING ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER, SUCH AS AGE AND RETENTION OF HISTORIC CHARACTER NEED ONLY MEET ONE CRITERION TO BE ELIGIBLE. FOLLOWING A SITE VISIT WITH O H P STAFF MEMBERS OF THE A I A HISTORIC RESOURCES COMMITTEE, RECOMMENDED DESIGNATION OF THE PROPERTY TO CITY COUNCIL AS A SIGNIFICANT HISTORIC TEXAS FARM AND RANCH SITE, DATING TO THE SECOND HALF OF THE 19TH CENTURY ON JUNE 17TH, CITY COUNCIL DIRECTED STAFF TO BEGIN THE REZONING PROCESS TO INCLUDE HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION. THE CASE REQUIRES A SUPER MAJORITY OF THE H D R C IN FAVOR OF DESIGNATION IN ORDER FOR IT TO RETURN TO CITY COUNCIL FOR THEIR FINAL CONSIDERATION. UH, WE HAVE SOME PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE JAMES GRIFFIN IS ALSO HERE, BUT I BELIEVE WE'LL DO PUBLIC COMMENT FIRST. NO, WE'LL ACTUALLY HAVE THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION FIRST. JUST KIDDING. IS THERE A CLICKER OR DO I JUST YOU OKAY, PERFECT. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, MY NAME IS JAMES GRIFFIN WITH KILLING GRIFFIN AND FERMAN HERE, UH, ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS. UM, UH, I HAVE A, A PRESENTATION, BUT I'LL, I'LL RUN THROUGH THAT, UH, BRIEFLY. UH, I JUST WANNA GO OVER A FEW THINGS. UH, FIRST, UM, AS YOU HEARD, UM, UH, WE, WELL, WE'RE NOT THE APPLICANT. WE'RE HERE, UH, ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER. AND, AND WE ARE OPPOSED TO THIS REQUEST, UH, OPPOSED FOR SEVERAL REASONS. UH, PRIMARILY REALLY BELIEVE THAT THERE'S LITTLE TO NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE HISTORIC NATURE, UH, OF THIS HOME. UM, UH, EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN, I THINK IS CONTRADICTORY AND MAY MAYBE EVEN A LITTLE, UH, UH, CONFUSING OR, OR MISLEADING, AND I'LL, I'LL GET TO THAT HERE IN JUST A SECOND. UM, THERE IS NO DISPUTE THAT, UH, THE KBOS, UH, ONCE OWNED THIS LAND. THEY OWNED, UH, SEVERAL HUNDRED ACRES, UH, OUT IN THIS AREA. UH, BUT AGAIN, WE, WE'VE SEEN ZERO EVIDENCE THAT THE KBOS, UH, LIVED IN A HOME HERE, UH, OR THAT THIS HOME THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WAS BUILT, UM, AROUND 1885 AS AS ASSERTED BY STAFF. UM, THE, THE FAMILY THAT OWNS IT NOW, UM, IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY THE THIRD GENERATION, UM, OF, OF THIS FAMILY THAT'S OWNED IT. UH, IF YOU, UH, SAW ON THE STAFF REPORT, THE, UM, UH, THE, THE PROPERTY WAS PURCHASED, UM, SEVERAL [00:15:01] HUNDRED ACRES AGAIN, UH, BACK IN THE EARLY FORTIES. UM, SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS LATER, THE HUSBAND WIFE THAT HAD HAD PURCHASED IT IN THE EARLY FORTIES, UH, BOTH PASSED AWAY ONE YEAR AFTER THE OTHER, UH, GAVE THE LAND TO THEIR, THEIR ONLY CHILD, THEIR DAUGHTER. UM, UH, THE DAUGHTER, NANCY IS THE MOTHER OF THE GENERATION THAT OWNS IT NOW. UM, SO THEY, THEY HAVE A LOT OF, UH, HISTORY WITH THE FAMILY THERE, THEIR FAMILY, UH, BUT IT DOESN'T GO BACK, UH, BEYOND THAT. UH, IN, IN FACT, UH, EVERYONE IN THE FAMILY, UH, THAT STILL OWNS IT, UH, RECALLS THE HOUSE BEING BUILT IN THE EARLY FIFTIES. UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, NO, NO SIGN OF IT BEING BUILT BACK IN THE BACK IN THE 18 HUNDREDS. UM, THE, THE PROCESS THAT KIND OF LED TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY, UH, HAS BEEN GOING ON A A COUPLE YEARS IS, AS YOU HEARD ABOUT IT, IT STARTED ACTUALLY, UH, BACK KIND OF DECEMBER, UH, 2019, UH, WHEN A REQUEST FOR A DEMOLITION PERMIT WAS SUBMITTED FOR THE HOUSE. UM, THE, THE DEMOLITION PERMIT WAS SUBMITTED, UH, SIMPLY BECAUSE THE, THE MAINTENANCE AND THE UPKEEP BECAME TOO MUCH REALLY TO BEAR FOR THE FAMILY. UH, AS YOU'LL SEE IN SOME OF THE PICTURES HERE IN JUST SEC, AND, AND THAT MAY BE IN THE, UH, RECORD, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A HOME THAT'S, THAT'S JUST OFF OF 1604. UH, ALL THE LAND THAT WAS PART OF THE, UH, UH, ORIGINAL RANCH PURCHASED IN THE FORTIES HAD BEEN SOLD OFF EXCEPT FOR THIS LAST REMAINING 14 OR SO ACRES. UM, UH, THE HOME, UH, HAD BEEN LEASED FOR SEVERAL YEARS, AND PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO, UH, THAT TENANT MOVED OUT AND THEY COULDN'T FIND ANYBODY ELSE TO LEASE THE PROPERTY. UH, AND, AND REALLY, VERY, VERY QUICKLY AFTER THAT TENANT MOVED OUT, YOU KNOW, WORD, WORD TRAVELS QUICKLY AMONG A, A CERTAIN GROUP AND, AND FOLKS THAT WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE STARTED TO MOVE IN. AND, AND IT'S JUST THE GRAFFITI AND DRUG USE AND, AND DUMPING. AND IT JUST BECAME QUICKLY A, A HAVEN FOR PEOPLE TO, TO DUMP TIRES AND MATTRESSES ON THE PROPERTY TO GO INTO THE HOUSE AND USE IT FOR ALL SORTS OF PURPOSES THAT, THAT THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO. UH, AND THAT STILL CONTINUES TODAY. AND AGAIN, THE FAMILY'S GOING OUT THERE ONCE A WEEK, UH, MOST TIMES, YOU KNOW, ALMOST, UH, ALMOST EVERY DAY JUST TO TRY TO CHASE PEOPLE OFF. UH, BUT BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, BACK TO THE, UM, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC PIECE OF IT. SO HERE WE ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS, UM, AND AGAIN, REALLY LITTLE, LITTLE TO NO EVIDENCE THAT WE'VE SEEN TO, TO SUPPORT THE, UH, UH, HISTORIC POSITION HERE. UH, LIKE I MENTIONED, THE FAMILY BELIEVES THE HOUSE WAS BUILT IN THE EARLY FIFTIES, UH, NOT LONG AFTER, UH, UH, NANCY BOWEN KREMER, UH, TOOK, TOOK OWNERSHIP OF THE LAND. UM, I, I KNOW THIS ISN'T DETERMINATIVE, BUT EVEN THE, UH, BARE APPRAISAL, UH, RECORDS, UM, UH, WHICH WERE, WERE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF'S REPORT, UH, SHOW THE HOUSE TO BE BUILT IN 1960. UM, UH, SOME OF THE THINGS YOU'VE SEEN IN THE, UH, PRESENTATION, YOU KNOW, NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS, I THINK ARE A LITTLE, UH, A LITTLE MISLEADING, AND I'LL, I'LL SHOW THOSE HERE IN, IN JUST A SECOND. UH, THERE'S ALSO BEEN SEVERAL, UH, REPORTS AND STUDIES DONE, UH, BOTH SPECIFIC TO THIS PROPERTY AND FOR THE LARGER AREA. UH, THERE'S THE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, HISTORICAL FARM AND RANCH STUDY, UH, THAT WAS REFERENCED AND, AND A, AND A LENGTHY, LENGTHY TDOT STUDY THAT, UH, IDENTIFIED, I, I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 85 OR SO, UH, HISTORICAL PROPERTIES, HISTORICAL HOMES IN THIS VERY AREA. UH, THEY IDENTIFIED ANOTHER LITTLE, UH, PROPERTY OR HOUSE ON THIS PROPERTY, UH, THAT I'LL SHOW HERE IN JUST A SECOND. UH, BUT NEVER RECOGNIZED THE HOUSE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY AS BEING HISTORIC. UH, DESPITE ALL THESE, ALL THESE STUDIES AND, AND LOOKS AT IT, UM, YOU ALSO HOPEFULLY, UH, HAVE SEEN IN, IN OUR REPORT, WE, UH, ENGAGED A, UH, AN EXPERT, UH, GABRIEL DUR HOLLIS TO GO OUT, UM, LOOK AT THE PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, KIND OF GIVE US HIS OPINION. UH, HIS FINDINGS ARE OUTLINED IN THAT REPORT, BUT BASICALLY SHOWING, YEAH, THIS CONSTRUCTION, IT WAS, UH, TYPICAL OF POST, POST-WORLD WAR II, UH, RIGHT IN LINE WITH CONSTRUCTION OF THE FORTIES AND FIFTIES AS FAR AS MATERIAL, UH, ELECTRICAL CONDUIT, UM, YOU KNOW, WATER, UH, ALL THE, YOU KNOW, MODERN, UH, AMENITIES, SO TO SPEAK, UH, AS WELL AS THE, THE DESIGN AND THE MATERIALS, UH, USED IN THAT HOME ITSELF. UM, SO IF WE CAN, YOU CAN CYCLE THROUGH HERE PRETTY QUICKLY. SO HERE, HERE'S THE PROPERTY, UH, ITSELF, UH, WITH THE HOUSE, UH, MARKED THERE, UH, AGAIN, RIGHT, RIGHT ON 1604. NOW, UH, PART OF A MUCH LARGER PROPERTY. UM, THE, THE HOME ITSELF IS ON, UH, WHAT IS A SMALL AMOUNT OF DEVELOPABLE LAND. UH, THE REST OF IT IS FLOODPLAIN. I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD'VE MAYBE REALIZED THAT IN THE, IN THE 18 HUNDREDS, BUT THEY CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE IN THE, IN THE FIFTIES. UM, YOU CAN GO THE, GO TO THE NEXT ONE. UH, THAT'S JUST OUR, OUR, OUR ZONING MAP. I'M TALKING ABOUT ANNEXATION, [00:20:01] SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN KIND OF KEEP, KEEP GOING THERE. UH, THIS JUST SHOWS YOU THE, THE LARGER AREA. UH, AGAIN, A GOOD PART OF THAT AREA. ON THE SCREEN THERE WAS PART OF THE, UH, THE CREAMER FAMILY, UH, THE BOWEN FAMILY, UM, THEIR RANCH. AND YOU SEE SOME OF THOSE NAMES IN THE, UH, IN THE LAND THERE FROM, FROM BOWEN'S CROSSING TO THE, THE CREAMER DEVELOPMENT FURTHER DOWN ON 1604. BUT, UH, AGAIN, NOT, NOT MUCH LEFT OF THE RANCH, UM, THAT IS STILL IN THE FAMILY. UM, NEXT, NEXT SLIDE. UM, UH, JUST A MENTION OF ONE OF THOSE STUDIES. UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, YEAH, IDENTIFIED 85 STRUCTURES THAT ARE IN THE IMMEDIATE AREA, UH, THAT WERE CLEARLY HISTORIC. AND, AND THIS HOME WAS, WAS NOT IDENTIFIED THROUGHOUT ALL THOSE STUDIES. UH, ON THE NEXT SLIDE, UH, SO HERE'S THE HOME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, YOU, YOU CAN SEE, UH, THERE'S , FRESH, FRESH GRAFFITI ALMOST EVERY DAY. UH, AGAIN, IT'S BEEN, UH, NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO TRY TO KEEP FOLKS, UH, OUT OF THIS PROPERTY, UH, AWAY FROM THIS PROPERTY. UM, AND THE NEXT FEW SLIDES ARE, ARE PICTURES OF THE INSIDE AND OUT OF THAT HOME. UM, YOU CAN SEE THE HOME HAS A, HAS A FOUNDATION THERE. UM, UM, YOU CAN KIND OF KEEP, KEEP FLIPPING THERE. UM, YEAH, KEEP, KEEP GOING. ONE MORE. HERE'S, HERE'S A LITTLE LOOK ON THE INSIDE, AND IT'S EVEN, IT'S GOTTEN EVEN WORSE SINCE THOSE, UH, PICTURES HAVE BEEN TAKEN. UM, UH, PART OF THAT KIND OF BEING A, A, A BLESSING AS IT GAVE, UH, O H P STAFF AND, AND OURSELVES A BETTER LOOK AT WHAT'S BEHIND THE, UH, SHEET ROCK THERE. AND, AND THE WALLS, AS YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR UNINVITED GUESTS KEEP COMING IN AND, AND TEARING THINGS APART. UM, FLIP THROUGH THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, THREE OR FOUR SLIDES THERE. AGAIN, JUST KIND OF SHOWING YOU MORE OF, UH, WHAT'S INSIDE, UM, YOU KNOW, BOTH CONSTRUCTION OF THE HOME ITSELF, MODERN CONSTRUCTION, UM, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, HAR HARD TO IGNORE WHAT, UH, WHAT THE GUESTS ARE DOING THERE AS WELL. UM, YOU CAN FLIP THROUGH THE NEXT, NEXT FEW, UH, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, MODERN, MODERN FIREPLACE THERE, UM, YOU KNOW, WOOD FLOORS THAT, THAT DATE BACK TO, TO THE FIFTIES. UM, GO THROUGH THE NEXT, NEXT COUPLE. YEAH. AND YOU CAN KEEP, KEEP GOING TO A FEW MORE. UM, THAT'S ONE OF THE BARNS. HERE'S, UM, YEAH, WE CAN GO TO THAT. THE NEXT ONE. SORRY. UM, HERE'S THE, UH, THE, THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLE I MENTIONED, AND YEAH, YOU KNOW, , THIS, THIS ONE WAS A LITTLE, UH, UH, LITTLE UP UPSETTING ON OUR PART, I THINK TO SEE, UH, BECAUSE THE, YOU KNOW, THE HEADLINE IS, UM, UH, BOLDED THERE IN, IN THE STAFF REPORT. YOU KNOW, GIL BO HOME, A BIT OF OLD FRANCE. UH, WELL, READING THE ARTICLE, IT'S, IT'S ALL ABOUT A HOME, UH, OF THE GIL BOWS. IT WAS ACTUALLY A DIFFERENT FRANCOIS THAN, THAN THE ONE REFERENCE ON THIS PROPERTY. UH, BUT IT'S ABOUT A HOME DOWNTOWN, UH, THAT WAS DOWNTOWN, UH, ON MAINE, UH, THAT, THAT HAS SINCE BEEN DEMOLISHED, AND THERE'S NO REFERENCE OF, OF ANY PROPERTY OUT ON LESLIE ROAD OR, OR THIS RANCH. UM, SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S AN ARTICLE ABOUT THE GOBOS, BUT, UH, HAS LITERALLY ZERO TO DO, UH, AND, AND DOESN'T EVEN MAKE REFERENCE, UH, TO THIS PROPERTY OR, OR ANYTHING OF THE LIKE, BUT IF YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE, AT THE HEADLINE THERE, UH, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS, SEEMS TO SAY THAT THERE'S YEAH, SOME, SOME, UH, SIGNIFICANCE OF, OF THE SKILL BOW HOME. UM, THE, THE OTHER ARTICLE THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE, UH, REPORT AND THE RECOMMENDATION WAS JUST A, A REFERENCE TO THE MARRIAGE OF, UH, FRANCOIS, UH, GIBO AND, AND KATRINA, UM, UH, CALLAHAN, UM, JUST THE DATE, AGAIN, NO, NO REFERENCE TO THE PROPERTY OR TO THE HOME OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. UM, AND SKIP QUICKLY THROUGH THE NEXT, NEXT COUPLE THERE, THERE'S ACTUALLY A, A, A DUPLICATE THERE. SO YOU CAN GO SKIP, SKIP THAT ONE, AND THEN, UH, RIGHT HERE. YEAH, IF WE CAN. UM, THANK YOU. UH, STICK ON THIS ONE. SO, UH, THIS IS AN ARIEL SHOWING THE HOME IN QUESTION. UM, O OVER THERE ON THE RIGHT, UM, IS, UH, I'LL SHOW SOME MORE PICTURES THERE, BUT, BUT THIS IS ONE THAT IS UNDOUBTEDLY A, A HISTORIC HOME. UH, AND THIS IS KNOWN AS THE, THE GREEN BHE HOUSE, SO MAYBE BUTCHERING THAT, UH, PRONUNCIATION. BUT, UM, UH, YOU SEE ONE, HOW CLOSE IT IS, UH, TO OUR HOME, UM, HOW, UH, SMALL IT IS IN SIZE, OR RATHER, YOU KNOW, HOW LARGE THE HOME WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS COMPARED TO THAT ONE. UH, YOU CAN ALSO SEE AN OUTLINE OF THE DESIGN. THIS ONE WAS CLEARLY, UM, THAT DOG TROTT STYLE THAT WAS REFERENCED. UH, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL STUDIES SHOWING THAT THIS HOME WAS BUILT, UM, UH, TOOK SEVERAL YEARS, BUT, BUT BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME TIMEFRAME THAT IS BEING POINTED TO [00:25:01] FOR, FOR THE MAIN HOME, UM, LATE 1970S, UH, EARLY, UH, 1880S. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT BRINGS INTO, UH, UH, BRINGS INTO PLAY A HUGE QUESTION MARK AS TO, YOU KNOW, WHY, WHY WOULD THESE HOMES BE SO CLOSE TOGETHER, UH, WHEN YOU HAD SUCH LARGE TRACKS OF LAND BACK THERE? UH, AND PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE ANALYSIS SHOWS THAT THESE HOMES WERE, YOU KNOW, SUPPOSEDLY BUILT AT THE SAME TIME. BOTH, YOU KNOW, 18, 1880S, UM, GO THROUGH SOME PICTURES HERE IN A SECOND, BUT YOU'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, THE HOME ON THE RIGHT WAS, WAS, WAS CLEARLY, UH, BUILT BY HAND, UH, USING, YOU KNOW, ROUGH STONES USING WHAT WAS AVAILABLE IN THE 18 HUNDREDS. UH, IT WAS BUILT AT A SIZE THAT WAS, THAT WAS COMMON, UH, TO THE HOMES AT, AT THAT SIZE. YOU KNOW, NO MATTER HOW MANY, UH, PEOPLE WERE IN THE FAMILY, THEY WERE, THEY WERE PACKED INTO THIS TWO ROOM HOUSE. AGAIN, THAT WAS THE DOG TROTT STYLE. THE HOME IN QUESTION HERE, REALLY A STONES THROW AWAY FROM THIS HOME, UH, JUST DOESN'T COMPARE ON, ON ANY LEVEL, UH, TO THE HOME THAT IS WELL ESTABLISHED AS BEING BUILT IN THE 18 HUNDREDS. UM, IF WE COULD MAYBE SKIP THROUGH A FEW OF THESE SLIDES. I KNOW I'VE BEEN GOING ON. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE HOME WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, OR THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT ON THE, UH, RIGHT HAND SIDE, UH, CERTAINLY HAS FALLEN INTO DISREPAIR OVER THE YEARS, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS AGAIN, WELL, WELL ESTABLISHED AS A HOME BUILT IN THE 18 HUNDREDS. UH, AND IT, AND IT LOOKS AS SUCH. UM, LEMME GO THROUGH A COUPLE MORE. UM, ONE MORE. UM, AND HERE, THIS IS JUST AN EXCERPT FROM THAT, UH, UH, REPORT, UH, FROM THE, UH, EXPERT AND, UH, YOU KNOW, HIS HISTORICAL ARCHITECT THAT WE ENGAGED TO GO TAKE A LOOK AT THE SITE AND SEE IF HE COULD, UH, GIVE US SOME MORE INFORMATION. UH, HIS FULL REPORT, UH, SHOULD BE IN Y'ALL'S PACKET, BUT AGAIN, YOU SEE HERE THAT, UM, UH, REALLY THE FULL ANALYSIS WAS THAT THIS HOU HOME LIKELY WAS BUILT IN THE FIFTIES, UM, YOU KNOW, HAD THE ELECTRICAL CONDUIT HAD, UM, LOTS OF MORTAR, SMOOTH STONE. IT WAS OF A SIZE AND A LAYOUT THAT WAS COMMON TO, UH, THAT ERA. UM, AND, AND IN FACT, IN ONE OF THE KIND OF RECENT DESTRUCTIVE ACTS, UM, UH, FROM, FROM THE GUESTS IN THE HOUSE PULLING O OPEN THE SHEET ROCK, UH, WE SAW AN ETCHING, UH, ON THE, THE MAIN WALL OF THE HOUSE THAT SAID 1951. YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T, ONE SIGN DIDN'T SAY, YOU KNOW, BUILT HERE, BUT, UM, IT, IT WAS PRETTY, PRETTY TELLING. WE THOUGHT, UH, TO SEE THAT THERE WAS AN ETCHING, YOU KNOW, RIGHT THERE BY THE FRONT DOOR SAYING 1951, THAT THAT WAS JUST UNCOVERED. UM, SKIPPING AHEAD, I GUESS, UH, MAYBE JUST TO THE NEXT ONE. SO HERE'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE STONE, UH, INSIDE THE MAIN HOUSE, THE HOUSE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. YOU CAN SEE, UH, LOTS OF MORTAR THERE. UH, YOU KNOW, SMOOTH STONE, UM, THAT'S ELECTRICAL CONDUIT RIGHT THERE. UM, YOU KNOW, STILL, UH, A LITTLE, UH, LITTLE OLDER THAN, UH, HOW IT'S DONE TODAY. UH, BUT WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT IN 1880S, UH, YOU SEE REALLY A VAST, VAST DIFFERENCE IN, YOU KNOW, THE SIZE OF STONE, THE TEXTURE OF THE STONE, YOU KNOW, HOW THE CONSTRUCTION WAS, THE, THE USE OF MORTAR, THE USE OF UTILITIES, UH, ON AND ON AND ON. UM, SO, UH, IF, IF WE COULD, MAYBE, IF YOU JUST CYCLE THROUGH THOSE LAST FEW, SOUNDS LIKE MY TIME'S UP, BUT THE, THE LAST REALLY TWO SLIDES SHOW THAT, UM, UH, THE HOUSE THAT IS HISTORIC ON THE PROPERTY, JUST A HUNDRED OR SO FEET, MAYBE A LITTLE FURTHER, UH, FROM THIS MAIN STRUCTURE. YOU CAN GO, GO TO THE NEXT ONE REAL QUICK OR TOWARDS, TOWARDS THE END. THERE. THERE YOU GO. UM, SO YOU CAN SEE C VASTLY DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTION, ALTHOUGH THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, THIS ONE, THIS ONE IS IDENTIFIED AS CLEARLY AS BEING BUILT IN THE 18 HUNDREDS COMPARED TO THE, THE HOME THAT WE BELIEVE IS BUILT IN THE FIFTIES THAT IS AS CLAIMED AS BEING BUILT, UH, AROUND THIS SAME TIME. UH, AGAIN, UH, CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY NOT APPLES TO APPLES OR, OR EVEN APPLES TO ORANGES HERE. SO, UM, I'LL, I'LL STOP THERE. SORRY FOR RUNNING OVER A LITTLE BIT, BUT, UH, HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ANYBODY MAY HAVE. THANK Y'ALL SO MUCH. THANK YOU. WE'LL NOW HAVE, UH, CITIZEN COMMENTS. YEAH. IN PERSON, WE HAVE ALLISON CHAMBERS, AND THEN I BELIEVE WE HAVE VOICEMAILS FOLLOWING THAT. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ALLISON CHAMBERS. I AM A PRESERVATION ARCHITECT AT FORD PALEN CARSON HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. I HAVE A LETTER. I'M REPRESENTING THE A I A SAN ANTONIO LOCAL CHAPTER, UM, [00:30:01] HISTORIC RESOURCES COMMITTEE. SO I'D LIKE TO READ THAT LETTER FOR YOU. UM, THIS LETTER WAS WRITTEN TO THE MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ON MARCH 11TH, 2021. THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION INVITED MEMBERS OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION DEPARTMENT OF FORD PELLAND CARSON, UM, TO A SITE VISIT IN 92 90 LESLIE ROAD TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE IN ASSESSING THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE SLASH STRUCTURE OF THE PROPERTY. F P C ARCHITECTS, ALLISON CHAMBERS, A I A, AND STEWART JOHNSON, A I A AND ARCHITECTURAL CONSERVATOR, DR. ANNA. NOW WERE THERE ON BEHALF OF THE SAN ANTONIO, UH, CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ARCHITECTS HISTORIC RESOURCES COMMITTEE. OUR RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THE FINDINGS DETAILED IN THE PROPERTY ASSESSMENT BELOW A I SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORIC RESOURCES COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS THAT THE SAN ANTONIO CITY COUNCIL SUPPORT LANDMARK DESIGNATION STATUS FOR 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. UH, THE PROPERTY ASSESSMENT OBSERVATIONS, THE RESIDENTS AT 92 90 LESLIE ROAD SHOWS EVIDENCE OF BEING CONSTRUCTED IN SEVERAL PHASES OVER A PERIOD OF MANY DECADES. WE CONCUR WITH THE FINDINGS OF THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION THAT THE LARGER SECTION OF THE RESIDENCE AT THE SOUTHEAST SIDE OF THE SITE FACING MODERN DAY HIGHWAY LOOP 1604 IS A LATE 19TH CENTURY VERNACULAR STUCCO CLAD LIMESTONE DOG TROT HOUSE. THIS IS EXEMPLIFIED BY FEATURES INCLUDING A TWO UNIT PLAN, CLOSED CENTER PASSAGE, AND EVEN CHI AND END CHIMNEYS. THE LIMESTONE WALLS ARE COVERED BY MODERN GBOARD. UM, HOWEVER, IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS, THE GBOARD HAS BEEN REMOVED, EXPOSING THE MASONRY RECONSTRUCTION OF THE 19TH CENTURY HISTORIC REBEL WALLS, LIME MORTAR AND LIME, FINISHED PLASTER, SUBSEQUENT CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL ROOMS IMMEDIATELY NORTHWEST OF THE DOG TROT HOUSE REQUIRED MODIFICATIONS TO THE ROOF STRUCTURE AT THE EXTERIOR. LIMESTONE WITH LIME MORTAR ARE ALSO VISIBLE ON THE FRONT PORCH FACADE TO THE NORTHWEST OF THE DOG. TROTT H HOUSE IS A LIMESTONE OUTBUILDING, WHICH CURRENTLY SERVES AS THE KITCHEN FOR THE RESIDENTS, AS WITH THE DOG TROT HOUSE. THIS STRUCTURE AT THE INTERIOR IS COVERED BY GBOARD, UM, BUT LIKE THE DOG TROT HOUSE SHOWS LIMESTONE WALLS BEHIND THE MODERN WALL FINISH. YOU'LL HAVE TO WRAP UP. OKAY. YOU HAVE THIS LETTER IN YOUR PACKET. BASICALLY, I THINK YOU GET THE IDEA OF RECOMMENDATIONS. THERE ARE PHOTOS ATTACHED AS WELL OF, OF THE FINDINGS THAT WE FOUND. I THINK YOU GET THE POINT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, LAUREN, I'M SUMMONING YOU FROM AFAR. WILL YOU PLEASE PLAY THE NINE VOICEMAILS WE HAVE FOR THIS ITEM, 7 1 9 8 0 7 SCENIC LOOP ROAD. HE LOTUS, TEXAS 7 8 0 2 3 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 7 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. I FULLY SUPPORT THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF THE HISTORIC FRANCOIS AND CATARINA ILBO FARM. THIS UNIQUE VERNACULAR, STUCCO CLAD DOG TROTT HAS BEEN HIDDEN FROM SIGHT BEHIND DENSE VEGETATION FOR DECADES. AND THE PART ITS FRENCH AMERICAN OCCUPANTS PLATE IN THE EARLY SETTLEMENT OF HE LOTUS AND BEAR COUNTY, NEARLY FORGOTTEN. THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION RECOGNIZES THAT NOT ONLY THE ARCHITECTURAL AND AGRICULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PROPERTY, BUT COUPLED WITH THE GILS TIES TO THE PROMINENT CALLAHAN FAMILY, CANARY ISLANDERS AND SAN ANTONIO'S GOVERNMENT QUALIFIES THE GIBO FARM FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES PRESERVATION AND THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF OUR HISTORY BY SUCH DESIGNATIONS GIVES US A SENSE OF PLACE AND CONNECTION TO OUR LOCAL AND LARGER COMMUNITY. I FULLY SUPPORT THE DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. THIS IS BONNIE NER, 37 50 HUNTER CIRCLE, SAN ANTONIO, 7 8 2 3 0. I'M CALLING THAT ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THAT WONDERFUL HOUSE THAT IS SITTING OUT THERE ON LESLIE ROAD. I AM FAMILIAR WITH IT. AT THE TIME I WAS ON CITY COUNCIL, AND I'M ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED IT IS BEING CONSIDERED FOR HISTORICAL STATUS. SO WE ALL KNOW THE NAMES GIBO AND CALLAHAN, SO THIS HOUSE IS, OR IT STOPPED PLAYING. OKAY. WE'VE GOT A FROZEN COMPUTER. [00:35:21] THE TIME I WAS ON CITY COUNCIL, AND I'M ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED IT IS BEING CONSIDERED FOR HISTORICAL STATUS. SO WE ALL KNOW THE NAMES GIBO AND CALLAHAN, SO THIS HAS CERTAINLY A GREAT SIGNIFICANCE TO IT. THANK YOU. HELLO, THIS IS NANCY DREES. MY ADDRESS IS 1 5 3 0 3 PEBBLE SOUND, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS OH 3 3 2. I'M CALLING WITH REGARD TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. THERE SHOULD BE HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR THE GAL FARM ON 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOODBYE. I'M TIM DRES. MY ADDRESS IS 1 5 3 0 3 PEBBLE SOUND IN SAN ANTONIO, 7 8 2 3 2. I'M CALLING REGARDING ITEM NUMBER SEVEN ON THE AGENDA TODAY. AND I'M HOPING THAT THE BOARD WILL APPROVE HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR THE GIL FARM AT 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. IT'S AN IMPORTANT HISTORIC PROPERTY FOR SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS KIMBERLY RA WILLY. MY ADDRESS IS 72 20 MARBACH ROAD NUMBER 9 0 3. UM, I'M CALLING SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS, 7 8 2 2 7. I'M CALLING IN REGARDS TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, GOBO FARM, 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. UM, THE GOBO FARM SHOULD BE SAVED FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION. IT IS RICH IN CULTURAL HERITAGE, THEREFORE, IT SHOULD BE DESIGNATED A CITY LANDMARK. BY DOING THIS, IT CAN ALSO PAVE THE WAY FOR MORE FARM AND RANCH BUILDINGS TO BE SAVED AND PRESERVED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, PATRICIA ISELLE, 1911 ARCHWAY, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 3 2 H G R C, CASE NUMBER 7 92 90 LESLIE ROAD, THE HISTORIC FRANCOIS AND CATERINA ILBO FARMSTEAD IS A UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF A VERNACULAR ST CLAD DOG TROTT STRUCTURE. IT IS ONE OF THE LAST VESTIGES OF THE FRENCH AMERICAN OCCUPANTS WHO PLAYED AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE EARLY SETTLEMENT OF HE LOTUS SAN ANTONIO AND BEXAR COUNTY. AND IT IS THE LAST KNOWN HISTORIC STRUCTURE OF THE GIBO FAMILIES WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF SAN ANTONIO AND THE SURROUNDING AREA. THE ILBO FARMSTEAD IS ELIGIBLE FOR LISTING ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER OF HISTORIC PLACES, AS WELL AS THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION RECORDED TEXAS HISTORICAL LANDMARK. THIS IS BASED ON THE ARCHITECTURAL AND AGRICULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROPERTY, AS WELL AS THE GILS TIES TO THE PROMINENT CALLAHAN FAMILY WHO HAD THREE MAYORS WHO SERVED THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, AS WELL AS THEIR TIES TO THE CANARY ISLANDERS. PLEASE SUPPORT THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF THIS PROPERTY. AS OUR CITY CONTINUES TO GROW BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS, MORE AND MORE OF THESE FARMSTEADS ARE BEING LOST TO NEW DEVELOPMENTS. FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL HAVE REMINDERS OF WHAT IT TOOK TO BUILD OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU. YES. MY NAME IS JEAN HEIDA. I LIVE AT 3 1 2 6 MANILA, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 7. I'M THE PAST PRESIDENT OF THE SELMA HISTORICAL FOUNDATION. I'M CALLING REGARDING RESOLUTION 2 0 2 1 0 6 17 0 0 3 5 R, UH, THE HOUSE AT 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. IN 1999, I BEGAN EFFORTS TO SAVE THE HARRISON AND COLLEGE STATE. STOP WITH THAT. IN COLUMBUS TREES IN SELMA, TEXAS FOR HUNDRED 50 YEARS. IT TOOK 10 YEARS OF CONVINCING THE SELMA CITY COUNCIL, THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION TO TEXAS HOLLOW APARTMENTS AND THE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORICAL PLACES THAT THAT LITTLE LINE CREEK BUILDING WAS WORTH SAVING. THE BUILDING WAS RESTORED AND SITS THERE ON IH 35 AS A TEACHING TOOL OF THE EARLY DAYS OF LIFE IN TEXAS. GO SITS THE OLD [00:40:01] ILBO PROPERTY AT 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. A REMINDER AND A PIECE OF HISTORY PERTINENT TO THE AREA IN WHICH IT FITS INTO THE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO. THESE HISTORIC PLACES MUST BE SAVED. OUR LOCAL HISTORY IS IMPORTANT. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS FREDERICA KUSHNER. I LIVE AT 4 0 5 EAST MYRTLE STREET IN SAN ANTONIO. 7 8 2 1 2. UH, I'D LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, UH, 9 2 9 0 LESLIE ROAD, THE GIBO FARM. I WOULD LIKE TO STRONGLY RECOMMEND, UM, HISTORIC DESIGNATION, UH, FOR THE GIBO FARM. IT IS ITS ARCHITECTURE, UM, AND ITS LINKS TO THE GIBO FAMILY, MAKE IT A REAL LANDMARK, UH, IN SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORY. IT DESERVES HISTORIC DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. OKAY, I BELIEVE THAT. HELLO? ONE MORE TIME. THIS IS TRISHA M SEIDENBERG, 1 1 4 1 8 HOLLOW TREE STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 3 OH. I'M CALLING ON ITEM SEVEN. THAT'S 92 90 LESLIE ROAD. UH, I WOULD, UH, REQUEST THAT YOU VOTE ON THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR THE GIBO FARM. IT'S A RARE EXAMPLE OF 1880S LIMESTONE DOG, TROT HOUSE, AND LINKED TO THE FRANCIS GIBO FAMILY THAT FIRST ARRIVED IN SAN ANTONIO IN 1839. AND A DESCENDANTS OF THE CANARY ISLANDS OF NURSE WHO CAME IN 1831. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. WE CAN HAVE THE APPLICANT BACK UP AT THIS TIME. UM, COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR ANY OF OUR, UM, WITNESSES PRESENT? UH, BEFORE WE DO THAT, MR. GRIFFIN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THE, UH, OR REBUT ANY OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS? UH, YES. THANK YOU. AND I'LL, I'LL JUST MAKE A, A QUICK STATEMENT. UH, YOU KNOW, YOU HEARD THOSE COMMENTS AND IT WAS ALL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE GIL ELBOWS AND THE CALLAHANS, WHICH ARE NO DOUBT A, YOU KNOW, PROMINENT, UH, IMPORTANT PIECE OF SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORY. BUT AGAIN, THERE IS NOT A, YOU KNOW, STRAW OF, OF, OF EVIDENCE SHOWING THAT THE GIL ELBOWS AND THE CALLAHANS LIVED IN THIS HOUSE, BUILT THIS HOUSE, SAW THIS HOUSE IN THEIR LIFETIME. UH, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY, THEY OWN SEVERAL HUNDRED ACRES OUT HERE, BUT AGAIN, THERE'S, THERE'S NO TIES TO THE GOBOS, TO THE CALLAHANS, TO THEIR, YOU KNOW, TO THEIR MARRIAGE TOGETHER, UH, RELATED TO THIS HOUSE. UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IF, IF, IF THERE IS A HOUSE, UH, THAT WAS FROM THAT TIME, THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, ATTENTION SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON IT, IT'S THE CLEARLY CONSTRUCTED IN THE 1880S, UH, HOME THAT'S JUST A, A FEW HUNDRED FEET FROM THIS ONE. SO, UH, AGAIN, UH, WE ARE NOT, NOT, UH, PUTTING INTO ANY QUESTION OR, OR DISPUTING THE IMPORTANCE OF THE, THE GOBOS AND THE CALLAHANS, BUT, UH, WE HAVE SEEN ABSOLUTELY ZERO TIES TO THEM, UH, TO THIS HOUSE FROM THIS HOUSE. SO, UH, THANK Y'ALL AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. UH, DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION FOR MR. GRIFFIN OR FOR, UH, STAFF? MR. CHAIRMAN, DO I HAVE JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS? YES, SIR. UM, AND THIS IS FOR O H P STAFF. UH, THE ASSERTION IS THAT THERE WERE NO CONNECTIONS WITH THESE FAMILIES, UM, BEYOND JUST DEEDED OWNERSHIP AND THAT SORT OF THING, HAVE YOU COME ACROSS ANY EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT THEY HAD AN INVOLVEMENT, UH, WITH THIS PROPERTY? SO, UH, STAFF USES A COMBINATION OF DEEDS, UM, OF NEWSPAPER ARCHIVE RESEARCH, AND ALSO, UH, SO THIS ONE IS OUTSIDE THE ETJ, SO THINGS LIKE SANDBORN MAPS AND CD DIRECTORIES WEREN'T COVERING THIS AREA, BUT THE DEEDS POINT TO THE GOBOS AS, UH, OWNERS AND, AND BUILDERS OF THIS PROPERTY. I WILL SAY SHORT OF A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE GIBO FAMILY ON THIS PORCH, THERE'S, THERE'S PLENTY OF EVIDENCE THAT POINTS TO THE OWNERSHIP OF THIS PROPERTY. AND CAN I, I'M SORRY. YEAH, LOOK, I JUST HAVE ONE, ONE MORE QUESTION. UH, IT APPEARS TO ME WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, THAT THIS IS A, A STRUCTURE THAT HAS UNDERGONE CHANGES OVER TIME, THAT IT WAS NOT BUILT ALL AT ONE TIME. AND, UH, THIS SEEMS VERY CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, PROPERTY AND A PROJECT WE DID FOR THE CITY OF SELMA, THE HARRISON HOUSE, WHICH WAS ON INCLUDED IN THAT, UH, SURVEY OF THE HISTORICAL, UH, UH, FARMS AND RANCHES, UH, SURVEY. UM, AND IN THAT CASE, IT, IT [00:45:01] ALL BEEN ALTERED SIGNIFICANTLY. IT HAD GBOARD ADDED TO, IT HAD, UH, ELECTRICAL CONDUIT ADDED TO, IT HAD TWO WINGS ADDED TO THE, UH, THE CORE THAT WAS BUILT IN THE 18, UH, FIFTIES, ACTUALLY. UM, IN, IN YOUR ASSESSMENT OF THIS O H P STAFF, IS THIS A CASE OF SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN CHA CHANGED ORGANICALLY OVER TIME? THE HOUSE WAS CONTINUALLY OCCUPIED INTO THE TWO THOUSANDS, AND SO THE CHANGES THAT WE SEE INSIDE, INCLUDING THE CHIPBOARD, THE ADDITION OF MORE MODERN PLUMBING AND ELECTRICITY IS CONSISTENT WITH IT'S CONTINUED OCCUPANCY THROUGH THE TWO THOUSANDS. THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. I'M SORRY. I'M GETTING USED TO BEING BACK IN PERSON. , SORRY FOR THE BREAK OF ORDER. UM, I, I GUESS SPECIFIC TO THE MENTION OF THE GIL ELBOWS OWNING THE PROPERTY, ARE, ARE YOU SPECIFICALLY SAYING THE PROPERTY OR WERE DID WHEREVER PHYSICALLY THE OWNERS OF THAT PARTICULAR, UH, BUILDING THE SITE, THE, OR PROPERTY IN GENERAL? BOTH MR. CHAIR, YES, SIR. UM, TO STAFF, WAS THERE ANY EFFORT TO, UH, SEPARATE THE TWO BUILDINGS AND, UM, TO ADDRESS, UH, THE, UH, UH, DESIGNATION AS AN A AND A B IN THE EVENT THAT, UM, THE BUILDING IN QUESTION, UH, DOES NOT HAVE A CLEAR, UM, UH, CLEAR EVIDENCE AND THE OTHER BUILDING HAS CLEAR EVIDENCE? IS, IS THERE A VALUE OF VALUE TO THE, TO O H P THAT WOULD SAY THAT THE ONE THAT IS CLEARLY, UH, CAN YOU STONE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHICH OTHER BUILDING THE, THE RUINS? WE HAVE TWO BUILDINGS, RIGHT? WE HAVE THE STONE, THE, THE STONE, UH, UM, LET'S ARTIFACTS, LET'S CALL IT THAT, A SITE PLAN. UM, SO YEAH, THIS HOUSE IS ACTUALLY, WE BELIEVE TWO BUILDINGS THAT WERE KIND OF JOINED TOGETHER. AND THEN, UH, THE APPLICANT MENTIONED THE, UH, GREEN BALL SHEET RUINS, WHICH ARE LOCATED TO THE NORTH HERE, KIND OF IN THE WOODS. UM, AND SO THAT IS A SEPARATE SITE. UM, THAT WAS NOT REALLY WHAT PROMPTED THE, UM, THE CONCERN ABOUT DEMOLITION OF THIS PROPERTY. UM, AND THE, THE FINDING OF THE SOURCE SIGNIFICANCE WAS RELATED TO THIS HOUSE IN PARTICULAR, THE THE ONE IN THE CENTER. OKAY, COREY? WELL, WELL, BECAUSE FOR FROM MY POINT, THE, THE PRESENTATION IS LACKING IN CLARITY. I'M CONFUSED BY, UM, THE, UM, THE, UM, THE DOCUMENTS IN FRONT OF US, LIKE THE DOCUMENT THAT'S ON, NOT THE PAGE THAT YOU'RE FLIPPING BACK AND FORTH ON, BUT THE ONE THAT'S ON THIS PAGE SHOWS TWO DIFFERENT STRUCTURES. IT SHOWS THAT STRUCTURE, AND THEN IF YOU FLIP ON, THERE'S ANOTHER STRUCTURE. KEEP GOING THAT, UM, KEEP GOING. I, I'M LOOKING AT THIS. I'M LOOKING AT WHAT'S ON, WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN THAT'S PROVIDED TO ME. IS IT FROM THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION DOCUMENTS THAT ARE PROVIDED TO, TO US HERE ON SCREEN SHOWS A STONE BUILDING THAT HAS SOME PARTICULAR DETAILS, WHAT PAGE? WOOD. WOOD AND STRUCTURAL MEMBERS THAT, THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT BEYOND LENTILS OR HEADERS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? WHAT PAGE ARE YOU LOOKING AT? I, I BELIEVE IT'S ONE WITH THE, UH, STONE STRUC STRUCTURE. THIS ONE THAT'S IN DISREPAIR? YEAH. SO THE, YEAH, 82. YEAH. SO THIS IS A SEPARATE PROPERTY. UM, AND SO, UM, THIS WAS NOT REALLY WHAT WAS PROPOSED FOR DESIGNATION BY STAFF ORIGINALLY. THAT'S, WELL, I, I THINK PERHAPS THE, THE, UH, THE OWNER HAS, HAS, UM, PRESENTED A PRETTY GOOD CONTRAST, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE YEARS THAT, THAT HE'S PUT FORTH. AND, AND I THINK IT ALSO PRESENTS ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, PROBLEM THAT O H P PROBABLY HAVE TO HAVE SOME SOLUTION FOR IN THE FUTURE, THAT CLEARLY THERE WERE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE GRANTED LARGE SWATHS OF LAND, AND THEY'RE ASSOCIATED WITH JUST ABOUT EVERY SQUARE FOOT OF THE CITY. AND IT'S HARD TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO IS RELEVANT, OR EVERYTHING THAT'S ON THEIR PROPERTY IS RELEVANT. UH, IT'S, IT'S, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE A QUALIFIED DECISION. MS. YES, MS. GROUP, OR YOU [00:50:01] CAN GO FIRST IF YOU WANT. I WAS GONNA SAY THAT BASED ON THE INFORMATION I'VE SEEN AND HEARD, THE, THE AIAS HISTORIC RESOURCE COMMITTEE REVIEW OF THE BUILDING, LOOKING AT IT, UM, HOLISTICALLY, AND, AND COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S, UH, EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER SIMILAR STRUCTURES, RANCH STRUCTURES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT OVER TIME, OCCUPIED OVER TIME, MODIFIED OVER TIME, UM, I AM INCLINED TO SUPPORT THE DESIGNATION AT THIS POINT. YES. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. I, I AGREE. UM, MY QUESTION IS, SO THIS IS A, WE'VE ALREADY, WE'VE ALREADY FOUND HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE PROPERTY, SO I GUESS WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LANDMARK DESIGNATION. IT'S JUST A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL. UM, THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION DOES NOT IMPEDE THE CLIENT TO BE ABLE TO DEVELOP FURTHER ANYTHING ELSE ON THE LOT, RIGHT? NO, I MEAN, AS YOU KNOW, IT WOULD JUST NECESSITATE A C O A FOR ANY DEVELOPMENT ON THE SITE, UM, INCLUDING DEMOLITION OR REMOVAL OF THE PROPERTY, UM, THAT WOULD FOLLOW THE NORMAL PROCESS FOR DEMOLITION OF A LANDMARK AND WHICH ECONOMIC HARDSHIP OR LESS SIGNIFICANCE COULD BE PRESENTED TO THE COMMISSION. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING FOR THE RECORD. WITH THE EVIDENCE BEING OVERWHELMINGLY WITH RESPECT TO THE LAND, LIKE THERE'S THE DEEDED FROM THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS. I, I THINK THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT IT, THAT IT CREATES IS IT'S, IT'S ALMOST, UM, EVEN FURTHER, UM, ADVANCES, YOU KNOW, THESE CONCEPTS OF, OF CULTURAL GENOCIDE OR, OR, OR A, A, A TIPPING OF THE SCALES WITH RESPECT TO, UH, YOU KNOW, HOW THE, HOW THE HISTORY OF TEXAS PRESERVATION IS. WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH IS OVERWHELMINGLY OF A PARTICULAR, UH, ADVANTAGE TO, TO A PARTICULAR CLASS OF PEOPLE. THE EVIDENCE IN THE BUILDING I THINK, IS DIFFERENT THAN THE EVIDENCE IN THE LAND. AND, UM, I THINK IT SHOULD BE EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION AND TO THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY AND TO THE A, A THAT THEY BE LOOKING AT THAT STONE STRUCTURE WITH THE SAME, UM, UH, ENERGY AS LOOKING AT THIS BUILDING THAT STILL LACKS ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE A QUALIFIED DECISION. SO JUST SOMEHOW THAT, THAT'S PARAPHRASED FOR THE RECORD. UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I, MAY I ASK, UH, STAFF TO BRING UP PAGE NUMBER THREE IN THE PACKAGE THAT WE HAVE THAT SHOWS THE AERIAL OF THE PROPERTY UNDER CONSIDERATION THREE IN THE PRESENTATION OR IN THE CASE FILE? IN OUR CASE FILE PACKAGE. SO TO CLARIFY, THESE ARE TWO SEPARATE PIECES OF PROPERTY, CORRECT? YEAH. JUSTIN, CAN YOU ZOOM IN? AND THE ONE WITH THE STONE RUIN IS TO THE NORTHEAST OF THE PROPERTY THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING. SO HISTORIC DESIGNATION IS SOMETHING THAT'S ATTACHED TO THE LAND, THAT PIECE OF THAT, THAT RUIN IS ON ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY, AND THAT IS NOT UNDER OUR CONSIDERATION. IS THAT CORRECT STAFF? THAT'S CORRECT. UM, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. AND TRADITIONALLY, YOU'RE RIGHT, THE DESIGNATION WOULD, UM, ENCOMPASS THE EXTENT OF THE PROPERTY, UM, UNLESS OTHERWISE, UH, DESIGNATED. AND SO, UM, AN OPTION WOULD BE TO COME FORWARD WITH A SURVEY OR SOMETHING THAT PROPOSES A SMALLER, UH, BOUNDARY FOR THE DESIGNATION ON THE SITE. UM, BUT THAT HAS NOT BEEN REALLY PROPOSED AT THIS TIME. AND THE, THE PROPOSAL TO LANDMARK THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, UH, DOESN'T PRECLUDE THE OTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY EVENTUALLY BEING LANDMARKED, RIGHT? IT'S JUST THAT THERE WAS A, A, A, UH, A, A THREAT, SO TO SPEAK, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION THAT'S NECESSITATING THIS CONVERSATION. RIGHT. OKAY. SO I HOPE THAT'S CLEAR THAT WHILE WE'VE BEEN SEEING SEVERAL DIFFERENT STRUCTURES HERE, INCLUDING BARNS AND OUTBUILDINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WE'RE CONSIDERING THE BUILT STRUCTURES THAT ARE ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. THAT IS CORRECT. UM, IT IS GOOD TO POINT OUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF, UM, ACCESSORIES, UM, UM, BARNS, SHEDS, TROUGHS, UM, THAT DO RELATE TO THAT SORT OF AGRICULTURAL USE THAT WE KNOW THAT IT LIKELY HAD. UM, BUT THE, UM, THE 19TH CENTURY HOUSE IS WHAT HAS REALLY, UM, UH, MADE THE PROPERTY ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION. MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY? YES, SIR. THANK YOU. UM, I GUESS I HAVE MORE COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS. I, I HAVE A LOT, UH, A LOT OF CONCERN REGARDING CASES LIKE THIS WHERE IT DOES NOT COME FROM THE APPLICANT. WE'VE, WE'VE DEFINED 'EM AS THE APPLICANT. THAT'S NOT EVEN FAIR TO DEFINE HIM AS SUCH. UM, [00:55:01] I ALSO HAVE CONCERNS OF THIS BEING SOME LEVEL OF LAND GAMESMANSHIP AND AN END AROUND, AROUND THE PROPERTY AS WELL. I, I DON'T SEE CONSISTENCY ENOUGH AND INTEGRITY IN SOME OF THIS INFORMATION. I BELIEVE THAT IF THIS TRULY CAME FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER AS AN APPLICANT, THEN WE CAN TAKE A LOT OF THE INFORMATION AT, AT ITS FACE VALUE, HOPEFULLY, OBVIOUSLY, BUT, UH, A LOT MORE AT ITS FACE VALUE THAN SOME THAT COULD BE SKEWED OR SPUN TO A CONTEXT THAT IS NOT PROPER. AND SO, UM, I OBVIOUSLY VOICING MY CONCERN ABOUT THIS, AND I I WOULD BE VOTING AGAINST ANY HISTORIC DESIGNATION FOR THIS. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT. YES. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THE TEXAS HISTORIC COMMISSION INVOLVES ITSELF AND GAINES LEADERSHIP LIKE THAT. I DON'T THINK THE SAN ANTONIO CONSERVATION SOCIETY DOES, OR THE HISTORIC RESOURCE COMMITTEE OF THE A I A AND WE'VE HEARD FROM WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER FAIRLY INDEPENDENT, UH, EXPERTS IN THEIR EVALUATION OF THIS PROPERTY. AND, UM, I, I, I WOULD MOVE FOR A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION FOR 9 2 9 0 LESLIE ROAD, BASED ON THE FINDINGS OF O H P STAFF, T H C, THE HISTORIC RESOURCE COMMITTEE OF THE IA, AND THE EXPERTS WITH FORD POWELL. CARSON, SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND ANY DISCUSSION, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. I, I THINK THE EVIDENCE OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORTS A FINDING HERE, BUT SOME OF THE QUESTIONS RAISED, I, I THINK, UH, A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME MIGHT HELP SOME OF OUR COMMISSIONERS. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE IF THIS MOTION, UH, FAILS AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE PROCEDURE WOULD BE HERE, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO ARRANGE A SITE VISIT? THERE WAS A SITE VISIT PREVIOUS BEFORE THE HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE? WELL, ONE THAT'S PARTICULARLY AVAILABLE FOR COMMISSIONERS THAT HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE EVIDENCE. I, WELL, IF, UM, THE MOTION FOR APPROVAL FAILS, THEN ANOTHER MOTION COULD BE MADE FOR A D R C SITE VISIT. SO, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ NAY. OLA NAY CARPENTER AYE. GROUP. AYE. BOWMAN? AYE. BUTZER? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. DID WE HAVE A, THERE'S A CORRECTION MOTION. MOTION DOES NOT CARRY. WE NEED ANOTHER MOTION. WE NEEDED NINE, UH, AFFIRMATIVES ON THAT, AND WE GOT EIGHT. IT IS, IT IS AN APPROVAL WITH A SIMPLE MAJORITY, NOT WITHIN SUPER MAJORITY, SO THAT'LL BE PART OF THE RECORD AS THE CASE MOVES FORWARD. SO IT IS APPROVED, IT'LL MOVE FORWARD TO COUNSEL TO ZONING, COMMISSION TO ZONING. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [19. Address/Description: 130 WICKES HDRC Case No.: 2021405 Historic District Name: King William Applicant: Oscar Hernandez/Oscar's Custom Iron Works Request: Front yard fence installation City Council Dist.: 1] OKAY, WE'RE MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER 19, WHICH WAS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA TO INDIVIDUAL BY THE APPLICANT. ITEM NUMBER 19, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 0 5 ADDRESS, ONE 30 WIX. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A FOUR FOOT TALL WR IRON FRONT FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD WITH A DRIVEWAY GATE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE FRONT YARD FENCING BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE DRIVEWAY GATE BE RELOCATED BEHIND. THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE IS NOTED IN FINDING C. AN UPDATED SITE PLAN IS REQUIRED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, TWO, THAT THE FINAL CONSTRUCTION HEIGHT OF THE APPROVED GATE AND FENCING MAY NOT EXCEED A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF FOUR FEET AS APPROVED BY THE H G R C AT ANY PORTION OF THE FENCE. ADDITIONALLY, THE GATE AND FENCING MUST BE PERMITTED AND MEET THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OUTLINED IN U D C SECTION 35 DASH 514 AND THREE ARCHEOLOGY. THE PROJECT SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL LAWS, RULES AND REGULATIONS REGARDING ARCHEOLOGY AS APPLICABLE. [01:00:01] AND THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, MANUEL, WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT TO DISCUSS STIPULATION ONE REGARDING THE LOCATION OF THE DRIVEWAY GATE. THIS IS MY BAD, LET ME GRAB ONE FROM THE ATTENDEE LIST. MANUEL, IF YOU ARE, I JUST MADE YOU A PANELIST. IF YOU CAN, UM, UNMUTE YOURSELF AND YOU CAN TURN ON YOUR CAMERA TOO IF YOU, IF YOU'D LIKE. HELLO EVERYBODY. UM, SO REGARDING OUR PROPERTY AT ONE 30 WIC, UM, WE DO HAVE, UH, TWO CHILDREN AND A TODDLER. WE'VE KIND OF NOTICED THAT, YOU KNOW, FIRST FRIDAY'S AROUND, UM, WE'VE HAD SOME SAFETY CONCERNS OUR CAR HAS BEEN BROKEN INTO. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE KIND OF ASKING FOR THIS FENCE. UM, THE REASON FOR US TO MOVE THE, UM, UH, SLIDING OR SLIDING GATE FORWARD IS IF YOU LOOK AT PAGE 11, WHICH IS OUR PROPERTY SURVEY, YOU WILL SEE WHERE THERE IS THE WOODEN GATE CURRENTLY NOW THE FENCE IS RIGHT UP AGAINST OUR DRIVEWAY THAT IS ACTUALLY OUR NEIGHBOR'S FENCE, AND WE HAVE REQUESTED THAT THEY MOVE THIS FENCE TO MORE CORRECTLY SIT ON OUR PROPERTY LINE, WHICH THEY, UM, JUST FLAT OUT DENIED AND ACTUALLY INSTALLED A NEW FENCE, UM, THAT'S CURRENTLY THERE AT THIS TIME. HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT GOING TO, UM, MOVE FORWARD WITH ANY ILLEGAL ACTION IN THOSE TERMS. HOWEVER, IT DOES MAKE THAT PART OF THE DRIVEWAY UNUSABLE. SO WE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN PARKING OUR CAR ON THE FRONT PART OF THAT. UM, ALSO OUR NEIGHBORS, IF YOU SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE, I THINK IT'S PAGE 18 AND 19. THOSE ARE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM US AT 1 29. UM, THEY HAVE BEEN, OR THEY WERE APPROVED FOR A EXACT SAME INSTALLATION OF A FRONT SLIDING GATE, UM, WITH A FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD. ON PAGE 20 IS KIND OF ANOTHER EXAMPLE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY AT, UM, 3 0 2 MISSION STREET, WHERE, WHICH I CAN SEE IF I KIND OF STAND ON THE CORNER OF WS AND FORK. UM, AND THERE'S KIND OF EXAMPLES ALL OVER, UH, THE KING WILLIAM 8 41 EAST GUNTHER, WHICH I, SORRY, I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF IN HERE, BUT ALSO HAS A SLIDING FRONT, UH, YARD FENCE. UM, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAD, . ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE, UH, CITIZEN COMMENTS? I HAVE A VOICEMAIL. I'M GOING TO ATTEMPT TO PLAY IT. UH, BEAR WITH ME ON BEHALF OF THE KING WILLIAMS. LAUREN, IF YOU'RE STILL THERE, CAN YOU TRY FROM YOUR END? YEAH, STEPH, CAN YOU PULL UP THE LETTER? UM, SO AS A PLAN B, UM, THIS IS A, LISA LIN WAS READING THE LETTER THAT WAS, UH, DRAFTED BY THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION. WE HAVE A COPY OF THE LETTER, SO WE ARE JUST GOING TO READ IT OUT LOUD. DEAR COMMISSIONERS, THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND DO NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED FENCE. THE GUIDELINES STATE THAT NEW FENCES SHOULD NOT BE INSTALLED WHERE THERE HISTORICALLY WAS NO FENCE, PARTICULARLY [01:05:01] FRONT YARD FENCES OF THE 13 HOUSES AND THE 100 BLOCK OF WIX, ONLY ONE HAS A FRONT YARD FENCE, WHICH THIS COMMITTEE OPPOSED LAST YEAR BECAUSE OF THE REASONS STATED ABOVE, YEAH, APPROVED BY THE H D R C SETTING AN INAPPROPRIATE PRECEDENT. ALTHOUGH THE GUIDELINES ALLOW FENCES IF THEY'RE PRESENT IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT ALSO STATES THE APPROPRIATENESS IS DEPENDENT ON THE SPECIFIC CONDITIONS WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. IN OUR OPINION, THIS FENCE WILL INAPPROPRIATELY CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THE STREET SCAPE AND THE 100 BLOCK OF WICK STREET. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES, MA'AM. I, I BELIEVE I REMEMBER THE OTHER CASE, UH, FROM ACROSS THE STREET, BUT I MEAN, THE COMMISSION IS HERE BECAUSE OF THOSE TYPE OF CASES. I'M VERY SURPRISED WHEN I SEE THE SITE PLAN WITH THE NEIGHBOR'S FENCE IS PRACTICALLY, I MEAN, TAKEN OVER ON BOTH SIDES OF THE LOT. UM, AND I CAN SEE THAT BEING AN ISSUE. I WANTED TO ASK THE APPLICANT TWO QUESTIONS. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING, UH, AGAINST THE OTHER STIPULATIONS THAT STAFF PROVIDED? UM, I THINK OUR FENCE SHOULD BE, I THINK WITHIN THE FOUR FEET. UM, I WILL SAY THAT THE, OUR NEIGHBOR'S FENCE AT 1 29 IS 52 INCHES IN HEIGHT. UM, SO NONE THAT I CAN THINK OF AT THIS POINT. OKAY. AND, UM, COULD IT BE THAT MAYBE WE COULD, I DON'T KNOW. I'LL HEAR THE COMMENTS FROM LIKE FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. MAYBE SOMETHING THAT IF THE NEIGHBOR WERE TO DECIDE TO MOVE ITS FENCE BACK TO ITS OWN PROPERTY LINE, THAT THAT GATE COULD THEN BE PUSHED UP? WE WOULD BE, I MEAN, WE WOULD BE OPEN TO THAT, EXCEPT THAT WE HAVE ALREADY ATTEMPTED TO CON OR TO, UM, I GUESS MEET HALFWAY WITH THEM. AND THEY ABSOLUTELY REFUSED. UH, OUR PROPOSAL. WE EVEN OFFERED TO PAY HALF THE FENCE. UM, UH, BUT AGAIN, WE DON'T WANT TO SEEK ILLEGAL ACTION AT THIS TIME, UH, BECAUSE WE DO WANT TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS. MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. UM, I, I MEAN THIS, THE SIDE GUARD FENCE SITUATION I, I UNDERSTAND IS, IS TROUBLESOME, BUT I'M PRETTY CONSISTENT ABOUT OPPOSING THE INTRODUCTION OF FRANK ART FENCES, PARTICULARLY ON BLOCKS THAT DON'T HAVE THEM, UH, LARGELY ESTABLISHED. AND, UH, I SUPPORT THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION'S OPPOSITION TO THIS. SO I, I'LL BE SUPPORTING DENIAL. JUST TO CLARIFY, IT WOULD BE, UM, APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE, THE GATE BE REMOVED FROM THE DESIGN? WELL, NO, THE, THE GATE WOULD, WE'RE REQUESTING BE MOVED TO THE FRONT TO PROTECT THE PROPERTY, PROPERTY AND PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM RUNNING OUT INTO THE STREET AND FROM THE BURGLARIES THAT WE'VE HAD OCCUR. MS. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. I DID NOT CRAFT THAT INTO A MOTION. I WAS WAITING FOR OTHER COMMISSIONERS TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS, OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, MR. CHAIR, I'M, I'M INCLINED TO BE INFORMED BY THE EVIDENCE THAT'S PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT WITH RESPECT TO THE, THE VOCABULARY IN THE AREA SURROUND. UH, I, I MAKE NOTE OF ONE OF THE COMMENTS IN THE LETTER THAT WAS READ THAT SAYS THAT, UH, THE H D D H D R C DID SOMETHING THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATE, BUT I THINK ALONG THE LINES OF THE FIRST COMMENTS, THE H D R C DID WHATEVER IT DID BASED ON THE EVIDENCE AT THE TIME. UM, SO IT SEEMS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR A GOOD PRECEDENT OR BAD PRECEDENT, A A STANDARD IS, IS, UH, KINDA CODIFIED AS A, INTO A RIGHT. AND IT SEEMS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE PICTURE THAT IS SHOWN WITH A QUITE LENGTHY FENCE ACROSS THE STREET, UM, IT, IT, IT SEEMS TO SET A COMMUNITY UP FOR CONFLICT WHEN, WHEN SOME HAVE THE RIGHTS TO DO SOME THINGS AND OTHERS HAVE TO LOOK ACROSS THE STREET AND SEE HOW, TRY TO RATIONALIZE WHY THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME, RIGHT. SO I'M INCLINED TO, UM, B BELIEVE IN THE DIRECTION THAT I THINK THAT COMMISSIONER GRU WAS GOING IN, THAT IF THE APPLICANT WAS OKAY WITH ALL THE OTHER, UM, UM, POINTS, BUT I WOULD THINK THAT THE, THE, [01:10:01] THE CLOSURE OF THE GATE WOULD BE IMPORTANT. PERHAPS IT'S NOT MECHANIZED, PERHAPS IT'S A HAND, A, A, A CLOSER TYPE FENCE. IT MIGHT, MIGHT, UH, UH, SET THE LEAST, UM, INTRUSIVE STANDARD. THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU. AND, AND MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY TO CLARIFY. YES, MA'AM. UM, WHAT, WHAT COMES FORWARD FROM TO US IS CASE BY CASE. UM, I DO SUPPORT, I MEAN, UM, WE HAVE SEVERAL TIMES HAD CASES WHERE DUE TO SECURITY REASONS OR JUST, YOU KNOW, LOT DESIGNS OR OTHER THINGS MAKES US MAKE A DIFFERENT DECISION. I SEE THE HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET. I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT WAS THE REASONING BEHIND, BUT I CAN SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SOME FRONT GARAGE RIGHT THERE. UM, SO I THINK IT'S A CASE BY CASE. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS WILL SET A PRECEDENT FOR REST OF THE PROPERTIES AROUND WIX, BUT WHEN AN APPLICANT COMES FORWARD WITH US WITH A SECURITY ISSUE FOR FAMILY, AND I DON'T SEE HOW THE APPLICANT IN ANY WAY COULD PUT THAT GATE FURTHER BECAUSE OF HOW THE LOT IS AND CANNOT GET, WELL, ACCORDING TO THE APPLICANT CANNOT GET THE CAR THROUGH BECAUSE OF THE NEIGHBOR'S FENCE, THAT WOULD BE A REASONING FOR SUPPORTING THIS APPLICANT. I, OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? I'LL DO A MOTION OR SO. YES, MA'AM. A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH, UM, CAN YOU PULL UP THE STIPULATIONS PLEASE? A MOTION TO APPROVE WAS STIPULATION ONE AND THREE AND I WILL JUST ADD A STIPULATION THAT IF THE NEIGHBOR'S FENCE EVER WERE TO MOVE, UM, AND FACILITATE THE ENTRY OF THE CAR, THAT THE GATE TO BE MOVED BACK INSIDE THE LOT. TO CLARIFY, STIPULATION ONE IS REGARDING THE GATE LOCATION. SORRY. THEN STIPULATION TWO AND THREE SECOND. I'LL, I'LL SECOND IT OR UNLESS YOU WANT WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH A GIBBS? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. BAROLA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. THAT AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. A REMINDER THAT ADAM 20 HAS BEEN POSTPONED AND WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. WE'RE MOVING ON [21. Address/Description: 611 MUNCEY HDRC Case No.: 2021357 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Felix Ziga/Ziga Architecture Studio PLLC Request: Construction of a 1.5story residential structure City Council Dist.: 2] TO ADAM 21. UH, MR. PRATO, I HAVE, UM, MADE YOU A PANELIST. UM, YOU CAN UNMUTE YOURSELF AND TURN ON YOUR VIDEO IF, IF YOU'RE THERE. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 21, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 23 57 6 11 MUNCIE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A ONE AND A HALF STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT LOT AT SIX 11 MUNCIE LOCATED WITHIN THE DITY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDS FINAL APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH Q OR A THROUGH R WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE FRONT SETBACK BE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THAT OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE AT SIX 15 MUNCIE. AND THAT FIELD VERIFICATION BE REQUIRED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A C O A TWO. THAT BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING FEATURE A SMOOTH FINISH BOARDS THAT ARE 12 INCHES WIDE AND BATTENS THAT ARE ONE AND A HALF INCH WIDE AND WIDTH. ADDITIONALLY, STAFFER RECOMMENDS THAT THE PROPOSED STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF FEATURE SMOOTH PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES IN WIDTH SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES IN HEIGHT, A STANDARD GAL BLOOM FINISH, AND A CRIMP RIDGE SEAM THREE, THAT THE PROPOSED CORRUGATED STEEL SIDING, STEEL COLUMNS, AND CEDAR SIDING BE ELIMINATED. AND THAT MATERIALS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT BE USED FOUR, THAT THE PROPOSED WOOD WINDOWS THAT ADHERE TO STAFF STANDARDS IS NOTED IN FINDING K AND IN THE APPLICABLE CITATIONS. FIVE, THAT FENESTRATION PROFILES BE MODIFIED IS NOTED IN FINDINGS. L AND M WINDOWS SHOULD FEATURE INDIVIDUAL HEIGHTS AND WIDTHS THAT ARE COMPARABLE TO THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT. WINDOWS SHOULD FEATURE, FEATURE OPERABLE SASHES IN A ONE OVER ONE PROFILE AND STIPULATION SIX, THE GRASS ARE FULLY LANDSCAPED. GREEN SPACE IS INSTALLED IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, STRIP BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND CURB THAT THE PROPOSED VENTS TURN AT THE DRIVEWAY AND FEATURE A GR DRIVEWAY GATE THAT IS SET BACK BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. AND THAT ALL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT IS SCREENED [01:15:01] FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UH, THERE'S ALSO, UH, TWO CASE COMMENTS IN REGARDS TO A FOUNDATION SETBACK INSPECTION AND A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF INSPECTION. MR. PDO, ARE YOU THERE? OKAY, WELL, WE HAVE OUR IN-PERSON APPLICANT. YES, I'M HERE. THANK YOU. OH, THERE HE IS. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS FELIX ZIGA. I AM THE, UH, ARCHITECT ON THIS PROJECT. UM, WE PROPOSED THIS PROJECT AT THE LAST H D R C HEARING, UM, AND WE WERE SENT TO D R C. UM, WE DID HAVE THE D R C MEETING, AND WE DISCUSSED, UH, SOME OF THE PENDING CONCERNS. UM, WE HAVE AGREED TO SEVERAL, UH, OR THE MAJORITY OF THE STAFF STIPULATIONS. UM, DURING D R C, UH, WE DISCUSSED THE COR 10 SIDING, UM, METAL COLUMNS, FENESTRATION PATTERN, AND THE EVE R DETAILS, UM, FOR THE COR AND SIDING, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE DISCUSSION, UM, I KNOW THERE WAS CONCERN WITH THE CORRUGATED, UH, METAL SIDING PROFILE. UM, WE DID, UM, TAKE SOME FEEDBACK AND, UH, WE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, UH, A HORIZONTAL PROFILE. THIS IS NOT CORRUGATED METAL. THIS IS ACTUALLY, UH, WESTERN WAVE. UM, SPECIFICALLY, IT, IT RESEMBLES A TRADITIONAL 117, UH, DUTCH LAP SIDING PROFILES. UM, WE BELIEVE THE, THE SHADOW LINES CREATED BY THIS, UM, UH, HORIZONTAL APPLICATION OF CORTEN WILL, WILL RESEMBLE, UM, A WOOD WALL THAT IS PAINTED, UM, JUST THE COLOR OF RUST. UM, IT WAS ALSO SUGGESTED DURING D R C THAT THE STEEL COLUMNS WERE LIKELY A BIT TOO SLENDER, UH, FOR THE PROPORTION. SO WE DID LOOK AT THAT AND, AND TRY TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF, UM, IF YOU COULD PULL UP OUR, OUR RENDERING OR FRONT ELEVATION PLEASE. UM, SO WE DID, WE DID LOOK AT BEEFING UP THOSE COLUMNS AND, AND ADDING A BASE DETAIL. AND, YOU KNOW, OUR, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE OF THE BELIEF THAT THE, THE NEW BASE DETAIL AND THE CAPITAL DETAIL IN THE STEEL, THERE ARE A MODERN INTERPRETATION OF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ONE BY SIX TRIM THAT IS REQUESTED ON WOOD COLUMNS. UM, WE DID BEEF UP THE COLUMNS TO SIX INCH SQUARE TUBES, UM, SO THAT THE, THE SLENDERNESS CONCERNED, UM, TRY TO ALLEVIATE THAT. UH, THE, ANOTHER, THE, REGARDING THE FENESTRATION PATTERNS, WE DID HAVE ONE LARGE PICTURE WINDOW IN THE PREVIOUS DESIGN. UM, SO THIS WAS OUR, UM, THIS IS OUR CURRENT DESIGN, UM, SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE, UM, THREE 19 BURLESON PROPERTY THAT WAS REFERENCED IN THE LAST PRESENTATION. UM, IF YOU CLICK ONE OVER, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL DESIGN FROM THE LAST HEARING, WHICH WAS ON AUGUST 4TH. WE WERE PROPOSING ONE LARGE PICTURE WINDOW, UM, AT THE, UH, FRONT BUMP OUT. UM, AND THE ALTERNATE IS TO FULLY REVERT BACK TO THREE 19 BURLESON. BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, IT, IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT, NOT WHAT WE WANT TO DO. UM, THE LASTLY, YOU KNOW, THE, WE DID LOOK AT THE RAKE DETAIL, UM, AND, UH, WE DO HAVE, WE DO HAVE SOME DETAILS, UM, SHOWING THE, THE GUTTER AND THE OVERHANG. UM, AND THAT JUST, UH, FURTHER ELABORATES WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO AND HOW WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE OUR CORNICE DETAIL AS WELL. UM, I'LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS STAFF MAY HAVE OR, OR THE COMMISSIONERS MAY HAVE. THANK YOU. I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOME CITIZEN COMMENTS. WE HAVE A VOICEMAIL. HOLD ON. . GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. THIS IS SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THESE COMMENTS ARE FOR ITEM 21, 6 11 [01:20:02] MUNCIE. WE SUPPORT STAFF STIPULATIONS BUT DO NOT SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. THERE ARE TOO MANY STIPULATIONS LEAVING TOO MUCH WORK FOR STAFF. APPROVALS OF THIS NATURE TAKE AWAY FROM STAFF'S ABILITY TO DEDICATE THEIR TIME TO CREATING, PROTECTING AND OVERSEEING INSPECTING OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS. WE STRONGLY AGREE THAT THE APPLICANT SHOULD NOT USE INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS LOCATED OUTSIDE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND SEVERAL BLOCKS AWAY FOR INSPIRATION OR PRECEDENT. AS THE APPLICANT HIMSELF POINTS OUT ON PAGE 46 OF HIS APPLICATION, WHEN HE QUOTES THE GUIDELINES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, FOR EXAMPLE, CORRUGATED METAL SIDING WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR A NEW STRUCTURE IN A DISTRICT COMPRISED OF HOMES WITH WOOD SIGHTING. THANK YOU. AND THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. UH, MR. ZIGA, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT ON THE CITIZEN COMMENT? SURE. UM, WE, WE THANK THEM FOR THEIR COMMENT. UM, IF YOU COULD FLIP OVER TO THE HIGHLIGHTS IN THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, HE IS RIGHT, THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES DO MENTION, UM, SPECIFICALLY, UH, CORRUGATED METAL SIDING. UH, AGAIN, HOWEVER, WE, WE ARE DOING A DIFFERENT PROFILE, RIGHT? WE'RE DOING A PROFILE THAT IS MEANT TO RESEMBLE WOOD. UM, SO IT IS METAL, BUT IT IS NOT CORRUGATED METAL. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO FLIP QUICKLY THROUGH, UM, SOME HIGHLIGHTS IN THE, UH, GUIDELINES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. IF YOU COULD, UH, START AT THE TOP OF THE HIGHLIGHTS, PLEASE. LET'S SEE. THE FIRST HIGHLIGHT HERE IS A RELATIONSHIP OF SOLIDS AND VOIDS, RIGHT? SO REGARDING OUR FENESTRATION PATTERN COMMENTS, UM, THAT WE'RE NOT IN AGREEANCE WITH, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS SHOWS THAT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS COMPLIANT WITH THE GUIDELINE, UH, ESPECIALLY, UH, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE DIAGRAMS THAT WE'VE PROVIDED, UM, SHOWING THE THREE GANG WINDOWS COMPARED TO ONE BIG PICTURE WINDOW COMPARED TO, UM, THE WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, WHICH ARE TWO CASEMENTS ON THE SIDE, ONE FIXED IN THE MIDDLE, WHICH AROSE OUT OF THE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE D R C. UM, CAN YOU GO TO THE NEXT ONE, PLEASE? UM, HERE, UM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SCALE, MASSING AND FORM OF NEW STRUCTURES. UH, SPECIFICALLY THE ONE I CIRCLED IN RED, UM, SHOWS A VERY CONTEMPORARY LOOKING STRUCTURE, UM, WITH, GRANTED, I'M NOT SURE WHERE THIS IS LOCATED, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A MIX OF STUCCO BRICK, YOU KNOW, UH, WOOD SIDING, UH, METAL GUARDRAIL. UM, SO AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES TO DRAW INSPIRATION OF WHAT WE MAY PROPOSE AS COMPATIBLE DESIGN. UM, NEXT ONE, PLEASE. THIS TOUCHES BASE ON THE, UH, CORE 10 COMMENT. UM, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE FOCUSING ON, UM, GUIDELINES, NEW MATERIALS, ITEM TWO, THE ALTERNATIVE USE OF TRADITIONAL MATERIALS. UM, AND THAT IS WHAT, YOU KNOW, UM, WE'RE TRYING TO USE TRADITIONAL MATERIALS IN NEW WAYS TO CREATE VISUAL INTEREST, UM, WHILE ENSURING COMPATIBILITY. UH, NEXT ONE, PLEASE. AND AGAIN, CONTEMPORARY INTERPRETATIONS, RIGHT? SO WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, FOR BASE AND CAPITALS AND, YOU KNOW, DETAILS, AND WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE IT WITH THE MODERN INTERPRETATION OF TRADITIONAL MATERIALS. UH, NEXT ONE, PLEASE. I THINK THIS ONE, THIS ONE FURTHER EMPHASIZES THE, THE CONTRAST BETWEEN A HISTORIC HOUSE AND A NEW CONSTRUCTION HOUSE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE. WE DON'T WANT, WE DON'T WANT WHAT WE DID AT THREE 19 BURLESON, WHERE YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE HOUSE WAS BUILT IN A HUNDRED YEARS AGO OR, OR WAS BUILT, YOU KNOW, TODAY. SO, UM, IT'S A VERY SIMILAR MASSING SCALE PROPORTION IN THAT SIDE BY SIDE THAT WE HIGHLIGHTED. UM, BUT YOU CAN CLEARLY TELL THAT THE NEW CONSTRUCTION IS OF CONTEMPORARY DESIGN, UM, WITH FIXED WINDOWS, WITH SLENDER STEEL COLUMNS, WITH, UH, FLAT ROOFS AND ZERO OVERHANGS. NEXT ONE, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. THINK THAT MIGHT BE IT. SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, I WAS AT THE LAST D R C WITH MS. ZIGA, UM, AND THE APPLICANT, AND WE DID DISCUSS THE ELEMENTS THAT, UH, THEY'RE PRESENTING TODAY. UM, THE COLUMNS AT THE FRONT PORCH, THE, THE SCALE AND, AND PROPORTION OF THEM, THE, UM, TRIPLE WINDOWS AS OPPOSED TO A SINGLE, UH, LARGE PICTURE WINDOW AT THE FRONT. AND WE DID, UH, DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF LOOKING AT, UM, HORIZONTAL [01:25:01] METAL SIDING. UM, AND, AND I SEE THAT, UH, IN THE MATERIALS BOARDS, WHICH ARE 27 AND 28 OF THE PRESENTATION, UM, THEY ARE PRESENTING THE HORIZONTAL CORIN SIDING AND THE STAIN CEDAR. SO, UM, I BELIEVE THAT HE HAS ADDRESSED MANY OF THE CONCERNS THAT, UH, THAT, UH, THE COMMISSION HAS, UH, STATED, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. SO UNFORTUNATELY, I WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND THE, UH, THE D R C, BUT, UM, I AM ENCOURAGED BY WHAT I SEE HERE. I THINK THERE IS THAT SORT OF CONTEMPORARY TRANSLATION OF MATERIALS THAT SHOWS A THOUGHTFULNESS AND AN AWARENESS OF, OF THE, UH, CONTEXT. AND, AND SO I, I SUPPORT THE USE OF THIS PARTICULAR PROFILE OF METAL FOR THAT PURPOSE. I, I THINK IT'S, IT, UH, IF IT WERE A DIFFERENT KIND OF COR CORRUGATED PROFILE, I WOULD, I'D STILL HOLD CONCERNS ABOUT THAT. ALSO. UM, YOU KNOW, FOR ME IT'S ALWAYS BEEN MORE ABOUT THE PROPORTIONS OF THE WINDOWS RATHER THAN THE ACTUAL SIZES OF WINDOWS. SO THAT LONG HORIZONTAL WINDOW THAT WAS ORIGINALLY PRESENTED TO ME, UH, OR TO, TO US AS A GROUP JUST DID NOT FEEL RIGHT PROPORTIONALLY FOR ME. UM, I APPRECIATE, UH, THE SUBDIVISION OF THIS INTO THREE RECOGNIZABLE, THOUGH SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SIZE, UM, THAN WHAT WE'D SEE IN, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THEY'RE PROPORTIONATE TO WHAT YOU'D SEE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE TRANSLATION OF THE COLUMN BASES TO METAL BASE. I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, AN ADMIRABLE, UM, ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF WHAT'S THERE, BUT ALSO THEN SORT OF A, A REINVENTION AND A FRESHNESS. AND I THINK ONE THING THAT WE DO NEED TO ENCOURAGE IN OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS IS, IS, IS A VITALITY THAT THERE'S A, THERE IS A SENSE OF, UH, OF CONTINUITY, BUT ALSO A SENSE THAT IT ISN'T STAGNANT. IT ISN'T, UH, A FLY CAPTURED IN AMBER. AND I THINK THE, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS LISTENED TO OUR SUGGESTIONS AND IS WELL ON THE WAY TO, UH, GETTING MY SUPPORT. MR. COMMISSIONER? I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. YES, SIR. UM, I AM GENERALLY IN SUPPORT OF THIS, UM, APPLICANT AND WHAT HE'S DONE HERE, BUT I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. UM, I JUST WANT YOU, AND I HEARD WHAT YOUR, YOUR STATEMENT WAS, AND, BUT I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY OR GET CLARIFICATION FROM YOU, UM, FROM THE NEIGHBORS AND THE DIG WOODY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT WHERE THEY MENTIONED, AND I QUOTE, FOR EXAMPLE, CORRUGATED METAL SIDING WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR NEW STRUCTURE IN THE DISTRICT COMPRISED OF HOMES WITH WOOD SITING. NOW, I UN I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS THAT OUR CHAIRMAN THAT THEY HAVE MADE AND ALSO OUR CO-CHAIRMAN, UM, CONCERNING THE, THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE AND, UM, THE, UM, THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE TO BASICALLY ACCOMMODATE, UM, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. BUT I WOULD LIKE, UM, FOR YOU TO CLARIFY THAT STATEMENT, PLEASE. UM, SURE. MR. GIBBS, UH, OR COMMISSIONER GIBBS? UM, SO TO REITERATE YOUR, YOUR QUESTION OR, OR, UH, REQUEST YOU'D LIKE US TO CLARIFY THAT THE PROPOSED SIDING THAT WE ARE, UH, PURSUING NOW IS, UH, NOT, WE WOULDN'T, WE WON'T CON I'M NOT CONSIDERING THAT CORRUGATED METAL BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT PROFILE TO US AS PROFESSIONALS. CORRUGATED METAL IS A VERY SPECIFIC PROFILE THAT IS VERY, UM, UNIFORM AND SYMMETRICAL IN PROFILE. THIS PROFILE IS CALLED A WESTERN WAVE. I BELIEVE IT'S A PROPRIETARY NAME, UH, FOR THE CORIN AND THAT SPECIFIC PROFILE. UH, BUT THE REASON WE SOUGHT THIS PROFILE OUT IS BECAUSE OF ITS RESEMBLANCE TO, UH, A WOOD OR A MORE TRADITIONAL WOOD SIDING. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION. I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. CHAIR, I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF COMMENTS I'D LIKE TO MAKE. YES, SIR. I THINK IT'S, IM, IM IMPORTANT TO, UM, TO RECOGNIZE THE QUALITY AND THE TALENT OF THE, OF THE DESIGNER BEFORE US. AND, UM, AS, UM, I, I WOULD ALMOST THINK A THIRD PARTY TO OPINIONS AND TO THE ORIGINAL INTENT, [01:30:01] JUST AS A PERSON LISTENING, WHAT I HEAR ARE, OR THE DIFFERENCE OF OPINIONS OF DESIGNERS AND THE, UH, OVERWHELMING WEIGHT FOR ME GOES TO THE ORIGINAL INTENT BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN A, WHEN A PERSON'S VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT THEIR, THEIR DESIGN INTENT IS, UM, IT'S VERY EASY TO INTERPRET OPINIONS AS, OR OPINIONS WITH POWER AS KIND OF THE POWER TO PERVERT THE ORIGINAL INTENT. THAT BEING SAID, I I, I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE CHALLENGE ON ANY DESIGNER THAT COMES BEFORE THIS COMMISSION TO HAVE TO PERHAPS CUT THE BABY IN HALF. AND I, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT LOOKING AT, AT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN AND LOOKING AT THE DESIGN AS IT IS NOW, I, I, I HAVE TO BE HONEST IN, IN JUST CONVEYING THAT I THINK THE SLENDERNESS OF THE COLUMN SPOKE MORE TO, TO THE, THE, THE OTHER ELEMENTS AND THE WIDENED WINDOW, SINGLE WINDOW ACTUALLY CREATES A SENSE OF IDENTITY WITHIN THIS CONSTRUCT THAT IS NOT A BUILDING THAT WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE THE THREE WINDOWS. UM, AS IT BECOMES MORE RECOGNIZABLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IT ALSO BEGINS A FALSE NARRATIVE. AND MAYBE NOT TO THE PERSON THAT'S SITTING ON THE SIDEWALK OBSERVING THE HOUSE, BUT MAYBE TO THE CAR DRIVING BY AT 20 MILES AN HOUR, THAT IT'S JUST ANOTHER HOUSE ON THE BLOCK. SO WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED? I, I APPRECIATE THIS YOUNG MAN THAT IS, UH, I, I, I WOULD IMAGINE DONE SO MUCH TO TRY TO MEET, UH, THIS COMMISSION IN THE MIDDLE. I HOPE THAT THE FUTURE OF NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, IN THESE HISTORIC, UM, NEIGHBORHOODS WITH RESPECT TO THE H D R C WILL FIND, UH, A WAY TO, TO NOT, UM, UH, WHAT, WHAT SOMETIMES APPEARS TO ME IS TO ACHIEVE SOME TYPE OF, UM, OF AN AGREEMENT AS OPPOSED TO, HEY, BUDDY, HOW YOU DOING? HONOR THE, THE, UM, LISTEN, HEY, UH, MOM DOESN'T KNOW IT YET WHEN UNCLE MARK PASSED AWAY, AS OPPOSED TO HONOR THE, UM, THE, THE VISUAL ASPECT OF, OF, OF WHAT IS ARCHITECTURE THAT WE, THAT WE'RE REMINDED THAT ONE DEFINITION IS THAT I LOOK AT IT AND I SEE IT, AND I SAY, AH, THAT'S ARCHITECTURE. AND MOST DEFINITELY THAT COMES WITH A CERTAIN, UH, UH, CERTAIN, UH, UH, MUTUAL RESPECT TO, TO KNOW THAT WHAT'S IN SOMEONE ELSE'S, UM, EYE FOR WHAT THEY CREATE IS, IS MOST DEFINITELY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S IN SOMEONE'S EYE TO CRITICIZE. UH, THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. I JUST, I THINK I DO AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GIBBS ON THE, ON THE SITING MATERIAL. JUST, I'M NOT READY, I'M NOT GONNA DO A MOTION, BUT JUST FFY, I, IF, IF I COMMISSIONER, UM, CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY. YES, IT SOUND, UH, I, IF WE COULD HEAR FROM MR. GIBBS DIRECTLY, I THINK HE MENTIONED HE WAS OKAY WITH SIDING. GIBBS. CAN YOU CLARIFY, ARE YOU, UH, OKAY WITH THIS PARTICULAR PROFILE OF HORIZONTAL SIDING? UM, I AM IN, UM, GENERAL AGREEMENT WITH THAT, YES. OH, AND THE MATERIAL TOO. COMMISSIONER GIBBS, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT WELL INCLINED TO THE MATERIAL BECAUSE I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE APPLICANT IS SAYING AS FAR AS THE LOOK, BUT I'M, I'M NOT REALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH THE MATERIAL. I AM AGREEMENT WITH THE HORIZONTAL, SO, SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE A HALF AND HALF. SO YES, THAT'S, THAT'S MY CLARIFICATION. YEAH. AND THAT'S WHAT I MEANT TOO. UM, OKAY. AND, AND, AND, AND HERE'S THE ISSUE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE WOOD SIDING, WHAT, WHAT WORRIES ME IS WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS DOWN, YOU KNOW, IN THE YEARS AND PAINTED, PAINTED WOOD SIDING, WE'VE SEEN THAT IT'S, IT'S BEING PAINTED DIFFERENT COLORS. I, I MEAN, I DO LIKE THE, THE CEDAR LOOK, BUT, UM, I'M JUST THIS INTRODUCTION OF A MATERIAL THAT'S NOT REALLY FOUND IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I MEAN, NOT ON THIS STREET. UM, WE HAVE DONE AN ACCEPTED METAL SIDING OR COR CORRUGATING MADE OF THE METAL MORE IN PROPERTIES THAT ARE NEXT TO INDUSTRIAL [01:35:01] SITES OR INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS. AND THAT'S KIND OF BEEN THE REASON FOR THAT TYPE OF MATERIAL BEING INTRODUCED. BUT I DON'T SEE IT HERE BEING A REASON TO INTRODUCE THIS MATERIAL IN THIS HOME. UM, MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY? YES, SIR. UM, COMMISSIONER GROUP, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS AND YOUR CONCERNS. UM, THERE IS A, A DIAGRAM THAT SHOWS OUR, OUR, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ONE BLOCK AWAY FROM THE INDUSTRIAL PARK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF SHERMAN STREET. UM, I BELIEVE IT'S THAT ONE. UM, PARTIALLY . YEAH. UM, SO IT'S, UH, THERE'S A, SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS ALSO SHOW IT. UM, THERE'S EVEN CORRUGATED METAL IN SOME OF THE, UH, MORE HUMBLE AND QUAINT BUNGALOWS ON OUR STREET THAT HAVE USED, UH, CORRUGATED METAL AND THIN, UH, STEEL PIPE, UH, FOR CARPORTS AND, UM, AND PORCH PATIO COVERS. UM, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF OUR EXHIBITS THAT SHOW THE FOUNDATION HEIGHTS WHERE WE HAVE PHOTOS OF ALL THE HOUSES ALONG THE STREET, THAT ONE SPECIFICALLY 6 27 MUNCIE, UM, THAT HAS CORRUGATED METAL, TRUE CORRUGATED METAL, AND ABOUT TWO INCH PIPE, UH, BEING USED AS A MAKESHIFT, UH, CARPORT AND, UM, FRONT PORCH. UM, WHICH I PARTICULARLY LIKE BECAUSE IT SHOWS THE LAYERS IN THE CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND HOW IT HAS EVOLVED OVER TIME. UM, 6 23 MONTHS, THESE SHOWS, THE, THE, THE CRAFTSMAN BASES, RIGHT? UH, SO WE DREW INSPIRATION FROM THAT. I KNOW THAT WAS PART OF THE COMMENTS AT THE LAST HEARING. UM, UH, IF YOU CLICK OVER A COUPLE MORE, UM, I WANT TO SAY THERE WAS OH, OH, AND, AND THEN WE HAVE THE, THE EXHIBIT WHERE WE SHOW THE USE OF, UM, CORTEN IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND I WANNA SAY THEY WERE THE EXACT SAME DISTANCE FROM THE, UM, THE, THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND PICTURE IN THE, UH, THE, THE SLIDE YOU WERE JUST AT, UM, THAT ONE. SO THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND PHOTO SHOWS, UH, CORRUGATED METAL CORIN VERTICALLY, ZERO FENESTRATION, AND, AND THERE THE SAME DISTANCE, IF NOT FURTHER FROM THE INDUSTRIAL PARK AS WE ARE. AND THIS IS THE SAME HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, AGAIN, I THINK OUR SOLUTION IS A BIT MORE, UM, TASTEFUL AND, AND TRYING TO MEET THEM HALFWAY. AND I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS ABOUT PRECEDENT, UM, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS COMMISSION DOESN'T SET PRECEDENTS AND EVERY PROJECT IS TREATED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. UM, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD ON MANY OCCASIONS. UM, THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY. YES, SIR. I, I JUST WANNA ECHO, UH, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ'S COMMENTS. I, I SHARE A LOT OF THE SENTIMENTS HE SHARED. UM, I PROTE, PERHAPS WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ARTICULATE 'EM AS ELOQUENTLY AS HE DID, BUT, UM, I I, I'M JUST REMINDED IT IS HARD TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY, ESPECIALLY IN THIS COMMISSION. BUT, UH, WHEN NOBODY'S HAPPY, EVEN THE APPLICANT THERE, THERE WAS COMPROMISE THERE. AND SO IT SEEMS TO BE THAT YOU, YOU HAVE MET, UM, THIS COMMISSION A LOT, UH, FOR FURTHER IN THE MIDDLE THAN, THAN I THINK IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY. SO I APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK YOU'VE DONE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR. UM, I, I, I THINK ONE OF THE IMAGES THAT WAS SHOWN TO US THAT IS REALLY THE MOST TELLING WAS THAT ONE OF THE IMAGES IN THE PREVIOUS, UH, SLIDE THAT HAD THE TWO HOUSES SIDE BY SIDE, THE CORRUGATED TIN ROOF AND THE METAL POLE STRUCTURE, AND THEN NEXT TO IT, IT HAD A HOUSE THAT OBVIOUSLY IS A LESS, LESS ON THE CREATIVE SIDE, UH, COLUMN WITH WHAT IS AN INTERPRETATION OF A COLUMN BASE THAT'S VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT THE APPLICANT IS BRINGING BEFORE US AS A COMPROMISE FROM HIS INTERPRETATION OF THE STEEL COLUMN AS AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT, VERSUS THE MORE, UM, EASILY UNDERSTOOD COLUMN WITH THE SQUARE, UM, UH, HIGHER COLUMN BASE. IF, UH, YOU COULD GO THERE, CORY, IT'S, UH, ONE OF THE LAST PICTURES, THAT ONE, THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. NOW, ARCHITECTURE'S A VERY INTERESTING, UH, THING, RIGHT? AND LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT IT IN THE TERMS OF DOING IT, BUT JUST IN THE TERMS OF STUDYING IT, SAN ANTONIO IS NOT REAL, UM, PROGRESSIVE IN LOOKING AT THE LITTLE BLUE HOUSE AS A DIALOGUE IN ARCHITECTURE, PRIMARILY BECAUSE ARCHITECTURE IS A HIGHER, HAS BEEN, HAS BEEN A HIGHER LEVEL DISCUSSION. [01:40:01] AND, UM, NEVER REALLY QUALIFIED THOSE THINGS THAT OCCUR WITHOUT CODE. AND, AND, AND IN THE, IN THE, IN THE, IN THE ZONES OF POVERTY, WHICH IS WHAT THESE AREAS HAD BEEN FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME. RIGHT? SO NOW THEY'RE INTRODUCED INTO AREAS THAT ARE BEING GENTRIFIED. YET THESE OLDER DIALOGUES THAT OCCUR THROUGHOUT HISTORY, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN LOOKED AT AS GUIDE, GUIDE ALIGNABLE VOCABULARIES, RIGHT? JUST KEEP IN MIND THE, THE, THE PROJECT THAT, UH, THE, THE APPLICANT BEFORE US, IT WAS THE CITY THAT TALKED ABOUT IT, THAT HOUSE THAT WAS OWNED BY THE GIL BULLS, AND OVER TIME IT GREW AND GREW WITH VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE, RIGHT? THAT, THAT WE CAN SEE, THAT WE CAN SEE IS PRESENTED BEFORE US. BUT HERE WE HAVE THE COLUMN AS IT'S PRESENTED, BUT TAKEN INTO THE, THE LANGUAGE OF A HOLISTIC PIECE OF ARCHITECTURE. BUT OUR COMPROMISE IS TO SAY THAT NO, WHAT WE THINK IS APPROPRIATE IS THE GRAY COLUMN NEXT, NEXT DOOR. NOW, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT COLUMNS, BUT TALKING ABOUT THE CONSTRUCT AS A WHOLE. CLEARLY THE KIT OF PARTS IN THIS COMMUNITY RELIES ON QUALIFIED DESIGNERS, OF WHICH WE HAVE NO GUARANTEE THAT QUALIFIED DESIGNERS ARE GONNA COME BEFORE THIS COMMISSION AT ANY GIVEN TIME. BUT, BUT CLEARLY WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HEAR, UH, UH, AN APPLICANT THAT COMES BEFORE US THAT UNDERSTANDS ALL THE PARTS THAT COMPRISE THIS COMMUNITY'S ARCHITECTURAL VOCABULARY. AND WHEN ONE DOES THAT, IT APPEALS TO OUR ARCHITECTURAL SENSIBILITIES IF WE HAVE THEM TO BE ABLE TO BE BIG ENOUGH TO SAY THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE USED THAT PART. BUT THAT PART IS IN THE KIT OF PARTS. SO WHEN THE APPLICANT COMES BEFORE US WITH, WITH A HOLISTIC, UH, UM, EXPRESSION, USING ONLY THE PARTS IN THAT KIT OF PARTS, WE HAVE TO BE BIG ENOUGH TO ACCEPT THAT IT'S NOT OUR DESIGN AND WE CAN ONLY FIX THE GAME. SO FAR, I THINK THAT THIS APPLICANT COMING BEFORE THE D R C AND MOST DEFINITELY COMING BEFORE THE H D R C BEFOREHAND, HAS SHOWN NOT ONLY THE MATURITY, BUT ALSO THE, THE ABILITY TO SUPPRESS FRUSTRATION IN THAT WE'RE CHANGING HIS DESIGN. AND HIS DESIGN IS CLEARLY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE KIT OF PARTS THAT WE FIND IN THIS AREA. IT'S ONLY FAIR, AND IT'S ONLY JUST THAT WE, THAT WE GRADE OR THAT WE, UM, UM, UH, EVALUATE THIS, THIS APPLICANT'S WORK BASED ON, UH, THE EVIDENCE BEFORE US WITH RESPECT TO THE LANGUAGE OF ARCHITECTURE IN THIS AREA, LIKE IT OR NOT, IN THIS CASE, JOB WELL DONE. AND THE, THE ONLY WAY TO, TO REWARD A JOB WELL DONE IS BY ENABLING THIS PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT US RISKING THAT WE'RE GONNA RUIN THIS PROJECT. UH, MR. CHAIR, THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES, MA'AM. UM, MR. SEGA, THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK AND WORKING WITH, UM, COMMISSIONERS, UH, AFTER D R C AND PRESENTING WHAT YOU'VE PRESENTED TODAY. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, AND ALTHOUGH I SEE THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED THE CORRUGATED ME MEDAL ON 27 MUNCY STREET, UM, IT'S HARD FOR ME TO, I, I, I FIND MYSELF IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS JUST BECAUSE IT'S HARD FOR ME TO, I, I KNOW THAT THE CORRUGATING METAL, OR THE PROFILE OR METAL IN GENERAL IS NOT AS COMMON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I DO APPRECIATE THE RESEARCH THAT YOU'VE DONE AND PRESENTED THE PROFILE THAT YOU HAVE. I KNOW, I APPRECIATE THAT YOU'VE SHOWN HOW IT'S SIMILAR TO WOOD SIDING, SO IT'S HARD FOR ME TO MAKE IT A DEFINITELY, YES. UM, SO I, I WANTED TO ASK, DID YOU EXPLORE ANY OTHER MATERIALS THAT WERE STILL CONVEYING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVEY AS SEPARATING YOUR DESIGN AS A CONTEMPORARY AND NEW LOOK AS YOU MENTIONED, UM, OTHER THAN THIS CORRUGATED AND METAL METAL, SPECIFICALLY THIS, THIS PROFILE. UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION. COMMISSIONER FERNANDEZ. UM, WE DID EXPLORE STUCCO AND SOME OTHER, UH, CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, BUT, UM, WE JUST COULDN'T FIND THEM WITHIN OUR BLOCK FACE OR, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE DISTRICT. UM, THEY'RE NOT AS PREVALENT, UM, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THERE'S MORE CREATIVE USE OF METAL THROUGHOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAN THERE IS OF STUCCO. UM, I, I SAY THAT IN A FEW PROJECTS COME TO MIND. UH, MAINLY A REHABILITATION, UM, OF AN OLD STONE HOUSE AND SOME NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT WAS APPROVED BEHIND IT, UM, WHICH I THINK ARE, MIGHT BE THE COMPOSITION OF ALL OF THE STUCCO HOUSES IN DITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, BUT WE DID EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE WERE, WE WERE, WE WERE PROPOSING A CONTEMPORARY GLASS FENESTRATION [01:45:01] PATTERN. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE FEEL, WE FEEL THAT WE'VE NEGOTIATED ON THAT. UM, I THINK, I THINK THE METAL, YOU KNOW, GOING FROM VERTICAL TO HORIZONTAL, TRYING TO MAKE IT READ AS WOOD. I MEAN, THE OTHER OPTION MIGHT BE TO GO WITH A HARDY OR A WOOD AND PAINT IT RUST. I MEAN, THEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO, YOU KNOW, FALSE MATERIALISM, RIGHT? AND A BRICK WANTS TO BE A BRICK. UM, SO WE, IF WE'D PREFER TO KEEP THE METAL IF POSSIBLE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. YES, SIR. I'D LIKE TO ATTEMPT A MOTION AND SEE IF I CAN GAIN SUPPORT FOR IT. SO, UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS 1, 2, 3, UH, WITH THREE, UH, BEING CHANGED TO, UM, THE CORRUGATED, OR I SHOULD SAY THE, THE METAL PROFILE AS PRESENTED TODAY. UH, FOUR, FIVE BEING CHANGED TO, UM, THE WINDOW CONFIGURATION PRESENTED TODAY ON SLIDE NUMBER 13. AND, UH, STIPULATION NUMBER SIX, UH, I'LL SECOND IT. UM, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER COULD, UH, O H P WELL, I JUST WANTED TO, TO ASK COMMISSIONER CARPENTER IN DISCUSSION IF HE COULD CLARIFY, RUN THROUGH ALL OF THAT AGAIN. UM, SO TO PUT IT SUCCINCTLY, BASICALLY APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS ONE THROUGH SIX, BUT WITH THE CLARIFICATION THAT ITEM THREE PERMITS, UH, THE CORRUGATED PROFILE OR THE METAL PROFILE THAT IS, WAS PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT TODAY. AND THAT STIPULATE STIPULATION NUMBER FIVE, UH, PERMITS THE CONFIGURATION, UH, OF THE, UH, WINDOWS IS I THINK WAS AGREED UPON AT THE D R C AND PRESENTED TODAY ON, ON, UH, ON PAGE NUMBER 13 OF OUR PACKET. UH, IF I MAY, UM, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CONVEY, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER IS APPROVED AS SUBMITTED. UM, I ONLY, THE ONLY REASON I, I'M INCLINED TO SAY THAT IS ONLY BECAUSE THE, LIKE, STIPULATION NUMBER THREE IS LOADED WITH OTHER THINGS LIKE THE STEEL COLUMNS AND THE, THE CEDAR SIDING. UM, SO I THINK A SIMPLE REPLACEMENT OF THE PROFILE WOULD ACTUALLY INFER THAT WE'RE, WE'RE STILL NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT. UM, SIMILAR TO FIVE, IF, IF WE SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE OKAY WITH THE, UH, FENESTRATION PATTERN BEING PROPOSED. WELL, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, MAKING A MOTION, YOU KNOW, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS EXCEPT THREE AND FIVE. UM, UH, JUST REMOVE ITEM NUMBER STIPULATION THREE. I CONCUR. I, I AGREE WITH YOUR, YOUR ANALYSIS OF THAT. SO, UH, MOVED, UH, AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, WITHOUT STAFF STIPULATIONS THREE AND FIVE AND, AND MY SECOND CARRIES, WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? MR. GI? MR. CHAIR, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. OH, YES, SIR. MR. GIBBS. UM, SO I, UM, I GENERALLY, UH, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, I GENERALLY AGREE WITH THE, UM, THE PROJECT HERE, BUT WITH I AM THREE, UM, SPECIFICALLY BEING REMOVED, UM, I HAVE A CONCERN WITH THAT. SO, UM, I, I'M NOT IN SUPPORT OF THAT. WE CAN GO AHEAD FORWARD WITH THE VOTE, SIR. THANK YOU FOR THAT. SO, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ NAYYY, FISH COMMISSIONER, FISH IS ABSENT. GIBBS NAYYY, VELAZQUEZ AYE. OLA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND BUTZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME, COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA [22. Address/Description: 245 E COMMERCE ST HDRC Case No.: 2021413 Landmark Name: Individual Landmark RIO District: RIO3 Applicant: Todd Olson Request: Garage doors installation at the river level, fencing City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM NUMBER 22, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 4 13 245 EAST COMMERCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO ONE INSTALL GATES AND FENCING, FEATURING EIGHT FEET AND HEIGHT ON THE PROPERTY, INCLUDING BOTH THE STREET AND RIVERWALK LEVELS, AND TWO, TO INSTALL GARAGE DOORS AT THE RIVERWALK LEVEL. THERE ARE APPLICATION DOCUMENTS THAT REFERENCE THE INSTALLATION OF SEATING AT THE RIVER LEVEL WITHIN AN EXISTING PLANTER. THIS SCOPE OF WORK IS NOT PART OF THIS REQUEST. STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL [01:50:01] APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE INSTALLATION OF SITE GATES AND FENCING WITH THE STIPULATION AT THE PROPOSED GATES AND FENCING. DO NOT EXCEED SIX FEET IN HEIGHT, IS NOTED IN FINDING C. AND STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. THE INSTALLATION OF GARAGE DOORS AT THE RIVER WALK LEVEL IS NOTED IN FINDING D. OKAY, I BELIEVE WE HAVE, UM, JAVIER GONZALEZ. GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY. THEN MR. OLSSON IS ON AS WELL. GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD AFTERNOON, PLEASE PROCEED. SO, UH, UH, GOOD AFTERNOON GUYS. UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, HOW ARE YOU? LONG TIME, NO, STEVE. GLAD TO SEE EVERYONE'S DOING WELL, THOSE OF YOU THAT I CAN SEE, UM, THERE WAS ANOTHER PART OF THIS REQUEST, SO YOU'RE GONNA SEE SOME GRAPHICS DON'T, THAT DON'T APPLY. WE'LL COME BACK, UH, AS APPROPRIATE WITH, ON THOSE OTHER THINGS IN THIS VIEW. HERE YOU'RE SEEING THE RIO PLAZA BUILDING. UH, THIS IS KIND OF THE, THE OLD PLANT HOLLYWOOD BUILDING, IF YOU REMEMBER IT, IT'S ON THE CORNER OF NAVARRO AND CROCKETT, UH, RIGHT ON THE RIVER. IT'S, IT'S THE UNIQUE PART OF THE RIVER WALK THAT GOES UNDER CROCKETT STREET. AND, UH, THERE'S A, THERE, THERE'S A, A SERIES OF OF OPENINGS, MASONRY OPENINGS THERE THAT LEAD YOU INTO, UH, A A REALLY NICE, UH, COUPLE OF RESTAURANTS, ICE CREAM SHOP, ET CETERA. AND, UM, THERE, THERE'S A, A, AN ISSUE THAT, THAT'S CAUSING US TO LOOK REALLY HARD AT, AT, AT HOW WE, UH, HANDLE SECURITY SAFETY AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THE AFTER HOURS, WHICH IS REALLY KIND OF VERY LATE NIGHT. UH, AND THEN IT OPENS UP BACK EARLY IN THE MORNING. UH, YOU KNOW, TH THIS IS A, A, YOU KNOW, A A A PUBLIC MEETING. SO I'LL, I'LL TRY AND, YOU KNOW, FOLLOW THE QUORUM. UH, PEOPLE FIND THEIR WAY TO THE BACK COURTYARD THROUGH THE BIG ARCH OR ANY OF THE OTHER ARCHES AND RELIEVE THEMSELVES. AND, UH, THAT'S NOT A SAFE THING. THAT'S NOT A GOOD THING, ESPECIALLY WITH A FOOD ESTABLISHMENT, UH, TO BOOT. SO EVERY MORNING, UH, YOU KNOW, THE GUYS GET TO, UH, YOU KNOW, SANITIZE ALL THE, ALL THE LEFTOVERS. I'LL SAY IT THAT WAY. SO, UH, ONE WAY TO SECURE IT, MAKE SURE PEOPLE AREN'T GONNA HURT THEMSELVES OR HURT SOMEBODY ELSE, IS WE'RE TRYING TO, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LOCK OFF THE AREA AFTER HOURS. UH, TODD, CAN YOU JUMP IN? WHAT ARE THE HOURS AGAIN THAT, THAT, THAT WILL BE CLOSED? YEAH. UH, SO THEY'LL BE CLOSED AT ROUGHLY MIDNIGHT TO 6:00 AM OKAY. SO, SO, UH, NOTHING THAT HAPPENS BETWEEN MIDNIGHT AND 6:00 AM LET'S JUST SAY THAT . UH, SO, SO OUR SOLUTION, UH, AFTER WORKING, UH, WITH THE D R C AND STAFF AND, AND ALL THOSE INVOLVED ON OUR SIDE, UH, WAS TO PUT IN, UH, OPERABLE GARAGE DOORS THAT WILL HAVE SOME NICE GRAPHICS AND, YOU KNOW, GLASS AND THINGS IN THEM, SO THAT WHEN THEY ARE CLOSED, IT DOESN'T HAVE A, A FORTIFIED WALLED OFF FEEL. UH, ON THE CONTRARY, IT'S VERY INVITING AND, AND STILL OPEN. AND WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE INTERESTED IF THEY DO HAPPEN TO, YOU KNOW, SO BY BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, MIDNIGHT AND 6:00 AM AND SAY, I GOTTA GO BACK TO THAT PLACE. UH, SO WHERE THERE ARE RESTAURANTS, UH, SPACES AND SO FORTH, WE DO HAVE THE GARAGE DOORS THAT WILL BE IN THE UP POSITION, UH, MOST OF THE TIME AS WE STATED. UH, BUT IN THE ARCHWAY, THE CENTRAL ARCHWAY WHERE THE FOUNTAIN IS, THAT LEADS BACK TO THE COURTYARD AND THE TWO FLANKING OPENINGS, UH, WE'RE DOING A WROUGHT IRON THERE. AND THOSE GATES WILL ALSO, YOU KNOW, FALL BACK AGAINST THE WALLS DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS. AND IT'S A, WE'RE ASKING THIS CONCEPTUAL REQUEST, BUT WE ARE TAKING INSPIRATION FROM THE MALONEY BUILDING, UH, RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE IMMEDIATE WEST HAS SOME BEAUTIFUL, UH, UH, ORNAMENTAL, UH, WROUGHT IRON. AND SO WE'RE, WE'RE BORROWING FROM THAT. NOW, UH, UNFORTUNATELY THIS ISN'T THE, THE END OF THE STORY. THERE IS A STARE ON THE UPPER, UH, CROCKETT STREET SIDE, AND THEN THERE'S THE, THE, THE LARGE, UH, ARCH PORTAL THAT YOU SEE IN THIS VIEW AS WE WORK OUR WAY AROUND. THANK YOU, EDWARD. UH, KEEP, KEEP GOING. , THERE YOU GO. SO THERE'S THIS ARCHWAY ON CROCKETT STREET THAT LEADS DOWN TO THE COURTYARD. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT A, A, UH, A GATE AND A, AND A SCREEN FENCE SO PEOPLE JUST DON'T HOP IT AND THEN HAVE A, YOU KNOW, FREE WILL TO DO WHAT THEY PLEASE AFTER HOURS. UH, THESE ARE SHOWN, UH, AT, I, I THINK IT'S STILL A BIT ABOVE SIX FEET. THEY'RE LIKE EIGHT FOOT. UH, SO THE REQUEST, UH, TO BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE STAFF REQUIREMENTS, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE AT SIX FOOT, WE REALLY WOULD LIKE EIGHT FOOT, BUT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE LIMITATION THERE, UNLESS YOU GUYS ON THE COMMISSIONER ARE INSPIRED TO SAY OTHERWISE. I'LL SAY IT LIKE THAT. UH, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND THEN WE HAVE A LITTLE TINY LITTLE BROAD IRON FENCE THAT AGAIN, IS, UH, EIGHT FOOT, UH, WE'LL LOWER TO SIX TO COMPLY WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. UH, AND VERY HAPPY TO, BUT IDEALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, DID YOU GUYS KNOW I WAS A HIGH JUMPER IN HIGH SCHOOL AND, YOU KNOW, SIX FOOT IS NOTHING THAT WE STARTED SIX FOOT. SO, UM, IDEALLY EIGHT FOOT, YOU KNOW, OKAY, NOW YOU'RE GETTING THE WORLD CLASS OLYMPIC STATUS . AND IF THOSE GUYS MAKE IT OVER THE FENCE, YOU KNOW, [01:55:01] ALL RIGHT, WELL, THEY REALLY DESERVE TO, TO GET ON THAT SIDE. SO, UM, THOSE ARE REALLY THE, THE, THE TWO ASKS, UH, THE, THE GARAGE DOORS THAT WE SHOWED, UH, AND THE WROUGHT IRON GATES AND FENCING THAT WE SHOWED, UH, VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD, UH, VERY SIMPLE. THIS IS CONCEPTUAL. SO WE WANT TO WORK OUT AND FLUSH OUT ALL THE, ALL THE, THE RIGHT DETAILS AND HINGES AND HOW WE ATTACH AND PUSH THE GARAGE DOORS TO THE BACK SO YOU REVEAL THE, THE, THE DEPTH OF THE STONE AND THAT MASS, THANK YOU. UH, THE COMMISSIONER, FISH, UH, ET CETERA. SO, UH, AND WE WILL BE WORKING CLOSELY WITH YOU GUYS ASKING FOR ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO D R C MEETINGS TO MAKE SURE WE GET IT RIGHT BEFORE WE COME BACK FOR FINAL. THANK YOU. AND THAT'S OUR, UM, DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS? NO, WE DON'T. OKAY. QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND, AND THANK YOU, UH, JAVIER GONZALEZ AND, AND, UH, FOR REPRESENTING YOUR APPLICANT HERE. UM, I REMEMBER WHEN THIS CAME UP A FEW YEARS AGO, AND I, I GUESS IT KIND OF WENT ON HIATUS FOR A WHILE. SO IT'S, IT'S NICE TO SEE THIS COMING BACK. I KNOW THAT THERE IS A, A REAL, REAL CONCERN, A REAL NEED HERE, AND I'M SYMPATHETIC TO THAT. ONE. ONE CONCERN I HAVE THOUGH, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THIS SOME TIME AGO, WAS JUST HOW THE GARAGE DOORS WOULD FIT INTO THAT SORT OF, UH, ARCADE OR COLONNADE THERE, BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF ASSOCIATED OVERHEAD, UH, HARDWARE AND THAT SORT OF THING. I'M ASSUMING, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE GOING TO BE OVERHEAD GARAGE DOORS, AND THERE WERE, THERE'S BEAMS, THERE'S LIGHT FIXTURES, THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT, THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. AND, AND WHEN, UH, THE GARAGE DOORS ARE UP, THERE'S JUST, THERE'S JUST ALL THE ASSOCIATED, UH, KIND OF CLUTTER THAT COMES ALONG WITH THAT. I LOOKED TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY SECTION DRAWINGS, ANYTHING THAT GAVE ME AN INDICATION AS TO HOW THAT WOULD BE ADDRESSED OR SOLVED. CAN, CAN YOU AT LEAST COMMENT, UH, ABOUT MY CONCERN ABOUT THAT? WELL, CERTAINLY THAT WE, WE SHARE THOSE CONCERNS AND ARE LOOKING AT, SINCE THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, WE LET, LET'S SEE HOW YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT IT FIRST. UH, AND THEN IF YOU ARE, UH, GIVING US A THUMBS UP, WE CAN REALLY TEAR INTO THE DETAILS. BUT, UH, THERE, THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF, OF GARAGE DOORS, THOSE THAT, THAT, THAT ROLL UP AND ARE IN THE CEILING, PLANE ABOVE WHICH, UH, UH, THAT, THAT SOLUTION IS PRETTY STANDARD, BUT IT IS RIPE WITH ALL SORTS OF, YOU KNOW, CONFLICTS AND HOW DO YOU LIKE THE SPACE AND, YOU KNOW, KEEP IT FREE OF, YOU KNOW, SPIDERWEBS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. THERE ARE A FOLDING TYPE THAT TODD JUST TALKED TO ME ABOUT JUST THE OTHER DAY. AND SO WE WANNA LOOK AT THOSE, UH, AND THOSE FOLD UP AND OUT OF THE WAY, UH, NICE AND CLEANLY UP AT, AT THE TOP, AND DON'T OVERTAKE ALL THAT SPACE. UH, SO THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE STARTING. AND WE WILL END IN A GOOD SPOT. NO, NO DOUBT. MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. UH, HELLO JAVIT. HOW ARE YOU DOING? IT'S GABRIEL. GABRIEL. HOW ARE YOU? ? GOOD, GOOD TO SEE YOU LIKE THIS. UM, YOU, YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M, UM, KIND OF REMINDED BY THE, BY THE, BY WHAT'S HERE NOW, RIGHT? UH, OF WHAT WAS THERE ONCE, RIGHT. WHICH WAS NOT ALL OF THIS, RIGHT? SO IT, IT, ITS VOCABULARY I THINK, UH, CAN BE VERY CONFUSING. IT REPRESENTED ITSELF AS SOMETHING THAT IS THE OLD RIVER WALK. IN REALITY. IT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION, RIGHT? RELATIVELY SPEAKING. YES, SIR. UH, WELL, THAT BEING SAID, IT, I, I DO THINK THAT THAT, THAT THE, UH, SOLUTION IS PROBABLY A SOLUTION THAT WAS A LONG TIME COMING, RIGHT? THAT IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WAS ANTICIPATED WHEN THIS WAS CONSTRUCTED. AND NOW A NEW PROBLEM, UM, UH, THAT KIND OF SHOWS ITS HEAD AROUND THE RIVER, AROUND THE OTHER SIDE. WE, WE HAD THIS SIMILAR, I THINK THE COMMISSIONER, REMEMBER WE HAD A SIMILAR SITUATION AND, AND, UM, I THINK OVER I, WHERE THE RESTAURANT IS, UM, OVER BY, UH, THE, THE, UM, UH, ROYAL STREET CROSSING, I GUESS IN THAT AREA, THERE'S ANOTHER AREA WHERE THEY HAD TO CLOSE 'CAUSE THERE WERE ISSUES AND THEY USED WR IRON. HA, JAVIER, THE THING THAT POPS UP TO ME IN TERMS OF THE THREE LOCATIONS IS IF, IF STAFF COULD GO TO THE PARKING LOT VIEW, OKAY, TH THERE, JAVIER, I, I DON'T PERSONALLY SEE THAT THAT'S A, UM, YOU KNOW, A AN ISSUE WITH IT BEING CLOSED, BUT I, I DO THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY, UM, MORE TO THE, THE PURITY OF THAT BIG GIANT ARCH THAT SO SPEAKS SO MUCH TO THE BUILDING IF THAT STEPPED BACK JUST A TINY BIT FURTHER. AND, AND THEN IF THERE WAS A WAY TO USE THE RIGHT IRON WITH RESPECT TO THE, THE SIX FOOT THING, I HAVE FOUND THAT AS LONG AS THERE'S A BOUNDARY, PEOPLE DON'T CROSS IT. BECAUSE, BECAUSE IF THEY DO, THEY KNOW THEY DON'T BELONG ON THE OTHER SIDE, WHICH IS, WHICH IS A, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A STRONG ELEMENT OF SECURITY THAT, THAT, THAT, UM, [02:00:01] UH, IS, IS UNDERUTILIZED. BUT IN THIS SITUATION, YOU SEE THE WINDOWS, THE SQUARE WINDOWS, AND THEN THE LINE OF THE, I GUESS I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT YOU CALL THIS MR. CHAIRMAN, IT'S NOT A, IT'S NOT A TRI-PARTY, UH, UH, UH, FACADE 'CAUSE IT HAS SO MANY LEVELS, BUT THAT, UM, THAT MAYBE SOMEHOW IN THE DESIGN OF THE WR IRON, THAT, THAT THE TOP LINE IS UTILIZED AND THAT THE WINDOW LINE IS UTILIZED AND THAT THE BOTTOM LINE IS UTILIZED SO THAT THIS IS NOT JUST A, YOU KNOW, IT SO THAT IT CEASES TO BE A WAY TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT, BUT IN REALITY IS A COMPLETION OF THE IN AND THE EGRESS, UH, UM, EXIT, UH, DESIGN. RIGHT? SO THAT MIGHT MEAN THAT IT'S TALLER, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IF IT'S LET'S TAKE THE RIGHT IRON OR TAKE THE IRON WORK AT THE, AT THE MISSION, AT THE, AT THE MISSION LIBRARY, RIGHT? THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THAT PEOPLE WOULD REMEMBER. RIGHT? OKAY. SO, SO THERE, I THINK THAT YOU'D BE MISSING A GREAT OPPORTUNITY IF YOU DIDN'T USE THE LINES TO ENABLE WHAT YOUR SOLUTION IS, IS TO, TO ENHANCE THE ARCHITECTURE AS OPPOSED TO JUST BE SOMETHING THAT KEEPS PEOPLE OUT. AND THEN, AND THEN ON THE BOTTOM, IF YOU GO TO THE, TO, TO THE RIVER STAFF, PLEASE, TO THE RIVER LEVEL, WE, WHEN WE GET TO THE RIVER LEVEL, UM, I THINK THE SAME WOULD BE TRUE ABOUT THE ROD IRON THERE AT THAT CENTER, THAT, THAT IF IT'S JUST AN UP AND DOWN ROD, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT, IT WILL STILL LOOK, UM, IT WON'T LOOK LIKE, LIKE WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE CONSIDERING LA ACROSS THE RIVER, I THINK. RIGHT? SO, SO MAYBE THERE'S A WAY TO DRAW SOME INSPIRATION AND MAKE IT A BEAUTIFUL EXPERIENCE SO THAT PEOPLE THERE AT ONE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND THEY'RE WALKING BY HOLDING HANDS THAT IT'S STILL A ROMANTIC, UM, UM, EXPERIENCE AND THAT IT STILL ADDS TO THE RIVER WITH RESPECT TO THE, TO THE OVERHEAD DOORS. UM, I'M WONDERING IF YOU'VE EXPLORED LIKE A CHAIN, UM, UM, ELEMENT THAT IS ALMOST INVISIBLE, THAT KEEPS PEOPLE OUT. IT DOESN'T KEEP TRASH FROM BLOWING IN. IT'S NOT, UM, UH, FOR CLIMATE CONTROL, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PULLED TO THE SIDES AND IT ALMOST DISAPPEARS. UM, AND I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S, UH, OLD THEATERS USED TO USE THAT. UH, I THINK IT'S STILL A, A MATERIAL THAT IS, THAT IS USED OFTEN. AND, AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO THE STAIRCASE, IF YOU, IF YOU GO TO THE STAIRCASE STAFF, I, I WOULD BE VERY HONEST WITH YOU, UH, THAT THAT IS A VERY HARD, UH, SOLUTION TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT, THAT, UM, ISN'T JUST A, A WAY TO, YOU KNOW, STOP PEOPLE FROM GOING IN. I WOULD CAUTION THOUGH THAT, THAT WHEN THAT'S THERE AND IT'S OPEN, IT'S GONNA FEEL BAD, SO THAT YOU THINK YOU REALLY NEED TO LIKE, TAKE THAT TO THE LEVEL OF A, OF SENSI, OF, OF A SENSITIVITY. SO THAT, THAT, THAT BEAUTIFUL KIND OF A, UM, A WAY THAT YOU, YOU, YOU MOVE DOWN TO THE RIVER, THAT IT'S NOT INTERRUPTED BY SOMETHING THAT SAYS, HEY, DUDE, I DON'T THINK I WANT TO GO DOWN THIS AREA. YOU KNOW, YOU FIND A LOT OF SITUATIONS LIKE THAT IN CHICAGO AND NEW YORK WHERE YOU'RE ALMOST LIKE, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO GO THERE, PERIOD. RIGHT? SO, UM, JUST IN, IN TERMS OF, UM, UM, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, CONCEPTUALLY, UM, I THINK YOU'VE GOTTA SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM, BUT I THINK YOUR AESTHETICS PROBABLY NEED TO STEP UP TO THE FRONT OF THE SOLUTION, BECAUSE IF YOU SOLVE IT AESTHETICALLY WELL, YOU'RE GONNA SOLVE THIS SECURITY PROBLEM. INCREDIBLE. IT'S FOR INSPIRING WORDS. THANK YOU. YOU ALWAYS HAVE A, YOU HAVE A KNACK FOR ELEVATING THINGS, UH, TO, TO THE RIGHT LEVEL. AND THANK YOU FOR, FOR THAT. UH, UH, HERE IN THIS VIEW HERE, WE WERE THINKING E EXACTLY AS YOU WERE, WERE ALLUDING TO IT, IT LOOKS A LITTLE, UH, OFFPUTTING, A LITTLE, LITTLE FOREBODING. SO WE WERE THINKING WE WOULD HAVE A, A PLANTER THERE WITH MOBILIA, SOMETHING TO SOFTEN IT UP AND, AND, AND WITH GREEN AND COLOR AND SEASONAL COLOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT MIGHT NOT LOOK SO GREAT DURING THE WINTER. BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WAS THE IDEA THERE. GOING TO THE ARCHWAY, UH, WORKING OFF OF THE DATUM AND THE LINES, UH, YOU KNOW, STATIC LINES IN THE ARCHITECTURE, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING WE, WE WANT TO DO ALSO. AND MAYBE EVEN HAVE A TRANSOM PIECE THAT, THAT WE ARCHED OVER AND HAD A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL, UH, IN IT, THAT, THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING WE WOULD LOOK AT, WE'RE LOOKING AT TOO, BUT WE DIDN'T WANNA OVERDO IT EITHER. UH, ON THE RIVERWALK SIDE FOR SURE, WE, WE, WE'VE GOTTA, YOU KNOW, NOT TURN OUR BACKS ON THE LEMONS, YOU AND, AND LOOK AT ALL THE INSPIRING ARCHITECTURE AND, AND SO FORTH, AND SEE HOW WE CAN, YOU KNOW, UP OUR GAME, SO TO SPEAK. BUT, UH, IF WE GET YOUR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WE'LL, WE'LL BE, WE'LL BE OFF TO THE RACES TO, TO MAKE THIS BID BE BIGGER, BETTER, AND, UH, AND MORE AESTHETIC, AS YOU SAID. THANK YOU. JUST, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON WHAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER SAID, I, AS I RECALL WHEN THIS CAME TO US, YOU KNOW, A YEAR OR TWO AGO, WHENEVER THAT [02:05:01] WAS, I THINK WE SPOKE ABOUT THAT GREAT CRAFT TRADITION HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, THAT WE HAVE SOME REALLY AMAZING METAL WORKERS, AND, UM, THAT WHEN EVEN DURING THE DAY WHEN THESE THINGS ARE FOLDED BACK, THERE'S A SENSE THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE A PART OF THE, THE, UH, THE CHARACTER, THE AMBIANCE OF THE RIVERWALK, AND THAT YOU DON'T EVEN PERCEIVE THEM AS SAY, NECESSARILY THIS FOR SORT OF FOREBODING, UH, BARRIER. AND, UH, SO I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. AND, UM, THE COMMENT ABOUT THE, THE CHAINS, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE SOME SYSTEMS THAT ACTUALLY ARE CHAINS THAT GO UP AND THEY COLLAPSE UPON THEMSELVES IN A, IN A, IN A VERTICAL PLANE, RATHER THAN HAVING TO ROLL BACK LIKE A, UH, AN O OVERHEAD GARAGE DOOR. AND SO THERE MAY BE SOME, SOME REAL, UM, OPPORTUNITIES THERE FOR SOMETHING THAT, ONCE AGAIN, RECALLS MORE OF THE METAL WORK AND CRAFTED HANDCRAFTED TRADITION RATHER THAN THE GARAGE DOORS. I, I, I THINK THE GARAGE DOORS ARE PROBLEMATIC, UH, IN THE CHARACTER THAT THEY BRING TO THE RIVERWALK. UM, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE APPROPRIATE. I THINK THE NEED FOR GAINING CONTROL UNDERNEATH THAT ARCADE OR THAT COLONATE IS, IS, IS A LEGITIMATE ONE. SO I WOULD SUPPORT SOME SOLUTION THERE, BUT I DON'T THINK THE GARAGE DOORS ARE QUITE THERE YET. WE'RE HAPPY TO THANK, THANK YOU FOR THAT. WE'RE HAPPY TO EXPLORE, YOU KNOW, ALTERNATIVE WAYS TO DO THAT. AND CERTAINLY THE, THE, THE SENTIMENT IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. UH, WE DON'T WANT IT TO LOOK CLUMSY. UH, IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING. THE STONEWORK IS VERY, VERY NICE. UH, BUT, BUT WE DO NEED TO, YOU KNOW, CONTROL IT AFTER HOURS. SO WITH THAT SENTIMENT, UH, BEING, BEING THE LEAD SENTIMENT, WE'RE, WE'RE THRILLED TO GO BACK AND TRY AND FIND THE KIND OF THE BEST SOLUTION, UH, POSSIBLE. THIS IS COMMISSIONER. YES. COMMISSIONER GROUP. UM, WELL, I MEAN, JUST TO THE COMMENT, I, I, I'M ACTUALLY PRETTY MUCH IN AGREEMENT WITH, UM, HOW IT'S PRESENTED TODAY. I ACTUALLY FEEL THAT GARAGE DOOR IS ACTUALLY, GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP THAT OPEN. IF, IF THEY WERE TO INTRODUCE WINDOW FENESTRATIONS DOORWAYS, THEN YOU'RE KEEPING THAT CLO MADE, MAYBE KEPT CLOSED DURING THE DAY. AND I THINK GARAGE DOORS ACTUALLY MAKES US, IT'LL BE MORE OPEN, MORE IN TIMES OF DURING THE DAY. AND ACTUALLY, UM, SO THERE'S NOT LIKE JUST ONE SECTION OR MAYBE ONE SECTION COULD BE CLOSED AND ONE SECTION OPEN. UM, SO I, I MEAN, I, I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE A, ANY INCONVENIENCE, AND THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, SO I'LL LOOK FORWARD TO ALSO SEE FURTHER DEVELOPMENT. UM, I DON'T THINK I WOULD AGREE WITH THE, WITH THE CHAIN ROLLING DOWN, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY NOT SOMETHING THAT I WOULD SEE DOWN IN THE REAL WORLD LEVEL. BUT, UM, 'CAUSE THE, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THE GARAGE DOORS IS THERE'S A TRANSPARENCY ELEMENT OF IT, YOU CAN SEE THROUGH IT. YES, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, COMMISSIONER GRU, THAT, UH, I THINK THE GARAGE DOORS HAVE SOME OPPORTUNITIES. UM, YOU'RE STARTING TO SHOW, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE MAYBE PAINTED OR METAL PANELS ON THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE GARAGE DOORS TO ADD SOME MORE DETAIL TO IT. UH, PERHAPS IF THIS GETS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, MAYBE LOOKING AT, UM, THE GLASS OR PLEXIGLASS, UH, WITH SOME SORT OF ETCHED PATTERN THAT IT'S STILL TRANSPARENT AND TRANSLUCENT, UM, TO, UH, AGAIN, UH, HARKEN BACK TO SOME OF THE, THE CRAFT AND DETAIL THAT ARE, UH, TRADITIONS IN SAN ANTONIO. UM, AND THEN UP ON THE CROCKETT STREET ENTRY, THERE IS AN EXISTING RAILING THAT HAS SOME, UH, DECORATIVE IRON WORK ON IT AS WELL. AND SO, UH, I KNOW THAT YOU'LL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE DESIGNING, UH, THIS PARTICULAR, UH, SECURITY CONDITION UP THERE. MR. UH, I'LL JUST, JUST IN, IN, IN THE INTEREST OF, OF, UM, I THINK IT, I THINK IT LEAVES THE, THE SOLUTION SET QUITE WIDER JUST TO CLARITY THAT. AND I THINK IT, IT'S CONSISTENT WITH MR. CARPENTER'S COMMENTS AS WELL. IT ISN'T SO MUCH THAT YOU, THAT WE WOULD BE LEADING YOU, OR AT LEAST FROM PERSPECTIVE OF MY COMMENTS TOWARD, UH, THIS TYPE OF DOOR OR THAT TYPE OF DOOR, RIGHT? BUT AS YOU EXPLORE THE, THE, THE, THE NECESSITIES OF A, OF A DOOR THAT ROLLS UP, SHOULD YOU HIT AN ABOVE CEILING CONDITION THAT HAS BEAMS AND BARS AND ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING, AND, AND THAT YOU CAN'T GET A DOOR OFF IN LIEU OF HAVING A DOOR THAT IS SITTING BELOW THE CEILING, THAT, THAT, THAT IN THE DAYTIME IS [02:10:01] RIGHT ABOVE THE PERSON SITTING DOWN THAT THOSE SOLUTIONS OF COLLAPSIBLE, UM, YOU KNOW, CHAIN OR, OR, AND, AND THERE'S DIFFERENT, THERE'S DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. I THINK MR. CARPENTER WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THAT COULD BE DONE. LIKE I, I WAS JUST IMAGINING MR. CARPENTER, THAT THERE WERE COLORED, COLORED BAR, UH, FABRICS THAT COULD TAKE UP THE DISTANCE OF WHATEVER COLLAPSES UP. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AS ABSTRACT AS, AS WE CAN BE WITHOUT GIVING, UH, SAYING THAT THAT WOULD WORK, RIGHT? BUT JUST IN THE GENERAL, UH, UM, A SET OF SOLUTIONS AVAILABLE TO YOU, I THINK THAT WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT THE, THE, THAT THE SPECTRUM IS VERY WIDE AND FOR CONCEPTUAL, I THINK THE IDEA OF, UM, OF, OF THE SOLUTION THAT HELPS SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT YOU'RE HAVING, THAT, THAT YOU'VE HIT AN ARRAY OF POSSIBILITIES. UH, SO I, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING, UH, HOW FAR DESIGN GOES BEYOND THAT. THAT COULD BE A MOTION TO MAKE A MOTION TO, UM, APPROVE AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF ONE AND TWO. YOU WANNA ADD THE STIPULATIONS? NO, I THINK IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL WELL, THE, WELL, WELL, ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS SAYS NO MORE THAN SIX FEET. I WOULD OH, OKAY. OKAY. SUPPORT, UM, WITHOUT STIPULATIONS. WITHOUT STIPULATIONS. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GROUP WITHOUT STIPULATION. YEAH. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. OLA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THE DEVELOPMENT OF YOUR DESIGNS. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE ALL YOUR HARD WORK AND GREAT COMMENTS. WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD. YES. THANK YOU. AGENDA [23. Address/Description: 820 NOLAN ST HDRC Case No.: 2021435 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Eric Esopinal/Walnut Company Investments LLC Request: Replacement of original wood and nonoriginal windows with aluminum clad wood windows City Council Dist.: 2] ITEM NUMBER 23, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 435 8 20. NOLAN, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE ALL EXISTING WINDOWS AT EIGHT 20 NOLAN WITH ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT INCLUDES THE REPLACEMENT OF 11 2 2 WOOD WINDOWS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A AND B STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT ALL EXISTING TWO OVER TWO WOOD WINDOWS BE REPAIRED. THE NON-ORIGINAL VINYL WINDOWS MAY BE REPLACED, HOWEVER, THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH THE WINDOW TO THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR HISTORIC WINDOW REPLACEMENT. HOW ARE YOU DOING COMMISSIONERS? UH, SO, UH, I BROUGHT THIS CASE BEFORE YOU, ONCE BEFORE, UH, BROUGHT MR. EDWARD OUT THERE TO REVIEW THESE WINDOWS. AND WE SAW MULTIPLE ROTTEN, I BELIEVE THEY'RE CALLED RIBBONS AND SASHES AND WINDOWS THAT NEED EXTENSIVE WORK. UH, OUT OF THE WINDOWS, WE FOUND THAT FOUR OF THEM WERE COMPLETELY, PRETTY MUCH WOULD NEED BRAND NEW WINDOWS. THREE OF THEM WERE IN NEED OF EXCESSIVE REPAIRS, PROBABLY OVER 40% OF THE WINDOW, AND THREE OF THEM WERE ACTUALLY NOT TOO BAD. UM, AND SAYING THIS, I DO BELIEVE THAT, UH, EACH HOUSE IS BASED ON A CASE BY CASE MERIT, BUT IF THERE ARE SOME PICTURES THAT HIGHLIGHT THE HOUSES NEXT TO ME, I BELIEVE YOU COULD SEE MAYBE IN THE HOUSE, THE PICTURE BEFORE, UM, UH, MAYBE NOT, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAPTURED IT, BUT THERE ARE SIMPLY SOME FIN NAILED IN VINYL WINDOWS. UH, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER TODAY DURING THIS MEETING, THAT, UH, THE GOAL ISN'T NECESSARILY TO CAPTURE THE FLY IN AMBER, UH, AND PRESERVE IT THE WAY IT IS, BUT TO BREATHE NEW LIFE INTO THE COMMUNITY. UH, AND I BELIEVE PUTTING THE, AN APPROPRIATE WINDOW THAT PRESERVES THE HISTORICAL LOOK OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS MORE APPROPRIATE THAN SOME OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS WINDOWS, UM, FITS THE GOAL OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT TO ENSURE THAT THE INTEGRITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD LIVES ON WHILE ALLOWING PEOPLE TO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY COMFORTABLY. UH, AND NOT TO MENTION AFFORDABLY, UH, COMPARING THE WHITE, THE COST TO REPLACE AND REPAIR WINDOWS. UH, CURRENTLY TO GET SOMEBODY OUT THERE, I'M LOOKING AT ABOUT A THREE MONTH WAIT, IF NOT MORE. I'VE BEEN QUOTED UP TO EIGHT, UH, PRICE PER WINDOW TO REPAIR. WE'RE LOOKING AT AROUND $1,600 A WINDOW WHERE I CAN GET, REPLACE EACH ONE FOR PROBABLY AROUND A THOUSAND DOLLARS. BEING VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH THAT ESTIMATE. UM, PUSHING FORWARD THIS, UH, I'VE SEEN Y'ALL OFFER CLASSES TO TEACH THE TRADES TO REPAIR THESE WINDOWS. SO I FEEL LIKE Y'ALL ARE AWARE OF THE DEFICIT OF TRADESMEN OUT THERE TO COMPLETE THIS WORK. UH, I AM THE OWNER OF THIS HOME. THIS HOME WAS PURCHASED WITH THE INTENT OF TO, UH, REHAB IT AND TO PUT IT BACK IN. UH, MY COMPANY HAS SO FAR ONLY SOLD PRIMARILY TO SINGLE FAMILIES. UH, WE DON'T SELL TO [02:15:01] INVESTORS. IT'S JUST NOT WHO WE ARE. UH, I GREW UP IN A FAMILY THAT BUILDS HOMES TO SELL TO FAMILIES, AND THAT'S WHAT HOME IS. SO THAT'S WHAT WE CONTEND TO DO HERE. UH, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE WINDOWS I'M GOING TO PUT IN ARE CASEMENT WINDOWS, VINYL, WOOD CLAD TO UPHOLD THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE THERE. UM, BUT DUE TO MY TIME CONSTRAINT AND BUDGET CONSTRAINTS, I'M NOT ABLE TO AFFORD THE 20 PROBABLY END UP $25,000 REPAIR NEEDED FOR THESE WINDOWS, WHICH WOULD THERE, YOU KNOW, I'M, AND THEN IN DEFAULT OF A LOAN AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. I AM ALSO VERY NERVOUS, 'CAUSE I PROBABLY SAID SOMETHING, I SHOT MYSELF IN THE FOOT HERE, BUT, UH, THIS IS KIND OF WHERE I'M AT. I FEEL LIKE I'VE REACHED OUT TO EIGHT PEOPLE ON THE SUGGESTED LIST, AND I FEEL LIKE I'M OUT OF OPTIONS. AND THAT'S WHY I REACHED OUT BACK TO MR. EDWARD, UH, TO, TO RECONSIDER THIS, THIS CASE. THANK YOU, SIR. UH, DO WE HAVE CITIZENS TO, OR CITIZEN COMMENTS? WE HAVE A VOICEMAIL. ONE MOMENT. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. THIS IS SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS, I'M FOLLOWING TO COMMENT ON ITEM 23 8 20 NOLAN STREET. WE SUPPORT STAFF THAT ALL ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS MUST BE REHABBED. WE ALSO SUPPORT STAFF AT ANY NON-ORIGINAL WINDOWS MAY BE REPLACED, BUT ADD THAT THEY SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH WINDOWS CONSTRUCTED OF MATERIALS THAT IMPROVE THE CURRENT CONDITION. PREFERABLY WOULD DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS WITH DIMENSIONS THAT MEET STAFF'S WINDOW DESIGN STANDARDS. IN OUR OPINION, THE APPLICANT'S CLAIM OF FINANCIAL HARDSHIP AS NO BEARING ON WHETHER OR NOT THE WINDOWS SHOULD BE REHABBED OR REPLACED. THERE ARE MANY LARGE EXPENSES WHEN REHABBING HISTORIC HOME. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, IT IS THE JOB OF THE APPLICANT TO KNOW THE CONDITION OF THE PROPERTY AND THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES WHEN DECIDING HOW MUCH TO PAY FOR A PROPERTY SPEND ON A PROPERTY AND EVENTUALLY HAVE A PROFIT REMAIN. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS? UH, MR. CHAIR? YES, MA'AM. SO, JUST TO THE APPLICANT, UM, NOT THAT YOU SAID ANYTHING WRONG, BUT YOU DID SAID FINAL CLAD WOOD, YOU MEANT ELEMENT MINIMUM, RIGHT? LIKE IN THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND FROM THE APPLICATION CO CORRECT? UH, AGAIN, I'M NERVOUS. MY VERBIAGE MAY BE WRONG. DON'T WORRY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE , WHATEVER IT SAYS ON THAT PAPER IS WHAT I INTEND TO PUT INTO THAT HOLE. OKAY. AND THEN, I MEAN, I'M LOOKING THROUGH THE PICTURES AND I MEAN, THEY'RE IN FAIRLY BAD SHAPE, BUT I ALSO SEE THE EXTENTS OF YOUR PROJECT. AND, AND THAT'S SOMETIMES, AND, AND THAT'S WHY WE SAY CASE BY CASE. AND THAT'S SOMETIMES BEEN THE REASON FOR WHY I'VE, I'VE LEAN LENT, LEANED A LITTLE BIT TOWARDS, UH, REPLACEMENT IS WHEN THERE IS SUCH A HUGE, UM, I MEAN REMODEL IMPROVEMENT OF THE PROPERTY. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF VINYL WINDOWS. I SEE THAT THOSE ARE NOT A PROBLEM. NOW, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE TO STAFF THE APPLICATION SAYS HE'S REPLACING ONE OF A ONE, BUT THEY HAVE THE DIVIDED LIGHTS IN THERE. IS THAT ALSO WHAT THE APPLICANT INTENDS TO REPLACE WITH? NO, THE APP, I'LL, I'LL CLARIFY. THE, THE EXISTING TWO OVER TWO WINDOWS ARE NOT THE PROFILE THAT THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSING TO, TO KEEP OR MAINTAIN THROUGH A REPLACEMENT. UH, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING, I'LL GO UP, BEAR WITH ME. THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSING A ONE OVER ONE WINDOW, UH, WHICH IS, IS, IS NOTED HERE. OKAY. SO THAT WOULD JUST WANTED THAT CLARIFICATION. SO WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO CHANGE THAT TO REPLACE WITH TWO OVER TWO? YEAH, I'M DEFINITELY WILLING TO TAKE A LOOK INTO THAT, SEE WHAT THAT OPTION IS. I WAS WILLING TO DO WOODEN WINDOWS. IT JUST DOES NOT SEEM TO BE A VIABLE OPTION FOR ME NOW. SO ABSOLUTELY WOULD LOOK INTO TWO, TWO. I MEAN, AND IF YOU CAN DO IT, WE'LL DO IT. NO PROBLEM. I, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS LIKE, I'M LEANING TOWARDS YOU FINDING A REPLACEMENT INSTEAD OF REPAIR. I, I, I, I'M, I, I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW WITH LABOR, THERE'S NO LABOR TO BE ABLE TO REPAIR THOSE WINDOWS. BUT AS TWO SOLUTIONS, WHAT I WOULD DO IS I WOULD SUGGEST A MOTION WITH, UH, THE, THE STANDARD WINDOW SPECIFICATION THAT WHEN WE REPLACE IN KIND, BUT I WOULD ALLOW FOR THE ALUMINUM WOOD. THERE ARE PLACES AROUND TOWN THAT HAVE WOOD WINDOWS THAT JUST MAYBE NEED A PAINT JOB, NOT A REPAIR, BUT JUST NEED A PAINT JOB. AND YOU WOULD PROBABLY FIND, BUT THERE HAS TO BE, WERE THERE'S VINYL WINDOWS. IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL OPENING FENESTRATION? BECAUSE I COULD SEE ON SOME OF THE SIDE, YEAH, ALL THE WINDOWS WOULD BE REPLACED, THE ORIGINAL SIZES TO BE UNIFORM AND COULD, UH, KEEP THE CONTINUITY BETWEEN THE HOUSE. THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. THAT WOULD BE REALLY AWESOME. I'LL LET OTHER COMMISSIONERS COMMENT. [02:20:04] I, I, UM, IN, IN AGREEMENT WITH COMMISSIONER GRU, I, I THINK WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU TALK TO YOUR, UH, WINDOW COMPANY, RIGHT, THAT, UM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT STANDARD SIZES TO BEGIN WITH. SO THEY, THEY PROBABLY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ONE OVER ONE. AND IF YOU ASK 'EM TO LOOK AT THE TWO OVER TWO, IT'S, IT IS PROBABLY WITHIN THE SAME CONTEXT. AND PRICE WISE, I WOULDN'T IMAGINE THAT THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE THAT WOULD BAR ME FROM USING IT. UH, BUT THEN AGAIN, IF THEY COME BACK WITH SOME CRAZY THING, I'M JUST TRYING TO GIVE MYSELF A LITTLE WIGGLE WAY TO COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH ANYTHING Y'ALL WANNA DO WITH ME, UH, OR WITH THIS PROPERTY, I WANNA MEET IN THE MIDDLE AND I WANT TO, YOU KNOW, CONTINUE TO WORK HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH HOW EVERYTHING LOOKS, WE WERE HOPING TO MAKE THIS OUR HOME, BUT WITH THE TIMELINE AND EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE, IT'S JUST NOT A REAL POSSIBILITY ANYMORE. UM, AND SAYING THAT I'M, I'M HERE TO WORK WITH Y'ALL, AND IF TWO OVER TWO GETS US WHERE WE NEED TO BE, THAT'S WHAT WE'LL PUT IN THERE. THANK YOU AND, AND APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. COMMISSIONER GROUP QUESTION. UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT DURING THE SURVEY WITH MR. HALL, THAT SOME OF THE WOOD WINDOWS WERE IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE. A A FEW OF THEM, YEAH. THREE, I'D SAY THREE OF THE WINDOWS WERE IN RELATIVELY GOOD SHAPE. UH, I BELIEVE THEY WERE IN THREE DIFFERENT ROOMS. OKAY. I'LL, UH, PULL UP THE PHOTOS. THERE WERE THREE WINDOWS THAT, THAT WE IDENTIFIED THAT, UH, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY AS FAR AS A REPAIR GOES, UH, REGLAZING WHERE THERE WASN'T ANY MEETING RAIL OR BOTTOM RAIL THAT HAD ANY TYPE OF A DETERIORATION ON IT. UH, THIS HERE IS A, A RELATIVELY GOOD EXAMPLE OF A WINDOW THAT YOU WOULD LOOK AT AND SAY, THAT WINDOW LOOKS LIKE IT'S PERFECTLY FINE, IT JUST NEEDS TO BE SANDED. AND REGLAZED, OTHER WINDOWS, UH, WOULD HAVE, UH, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A WINDOW THAT'S BEEN REPLACED. UM, BUT OTHER WINDOWS, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, THERE'S UH, THE PORTION OF THE BOTTOM SASH, THE BOTTOM RAIL AND THE BOTTOM SASH HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF. SO THAT PART WOULD NEED TO BE REPLACED. UH, THAT'S RELATIVELY COMMON FOR THE REST OF THE WINDOWS. THERE'S A SASH OR A MEETING RAIL THAT'S, OR EXCUSE ME, THERE'S A TOP OR BOTTOM RAIL THAT'S, THAT'S DAMAGED IN SOME WAY. ARE THE EXISTING WINDOWS THAT ARE IN RELATIVELY GOOD SHAPE, ARE THEY ALL OF THE SIZE THAT COULD, WHERE THEY COULD BE, UM, MAYBE PLACED IN ONE ROOM SO THAT, LIKE THE FRONT, UH, PROJECTING ROOM THAT HAS THREE WINDOWS, ARE THEY OF THE SIZE THAT THEY WOULD FIT IN THERE SO WE COULD SAVE THE ONES THAT ARE SAVEABLE? SO I BELIEVE TWO OF THE, TWO OF THE THREE WINDOWS COULD BE EXCHANGED OUT. UH, 'CAUSE THERE WAS ONE WINDOW THAT WAS HIDDEN IN THE WALLS THAT'S BEEN BURIED FOR WHO KNOWS HOW LONG. THAT'S BEEN PRETTY DECENT CONDITION. THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THERE'S THREE WINDOWS THAT ARE ALL STREET FACING. SO I THINK THAT THE CONTINUITY OF THAT WOULD BE NOT BENEFICIAL. BUT IN SAYING THAT, I'M DEFINITELY WILLING TO GO OUT AND REMEASURE AND IF WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WORK WITH Y'ALL TO ADJUST A WINDOW SIZE SLIGHTLY, THAT STILL WORKS AND WE CAN STILL USE THE OLD WINDOW, THEN AGAIN, I'M WILLING TO COMPROMISE IN ANY WAY WE NEED TO TO GET THIS, UH, MOVING FORWARD. THANK YOU. AND TO CLARIFY, UM, THE, THE THREE WINDOWS THAT ARE IN RELATIVELY GOOD SHAPE, ARE THEY ALL ABOUT THE SAME SIZE PROPORTION AND THAT KIND OF THING? ROUGHLY, YEAH. TO EACH OTHER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT SINCE THERE ARE SO MANY WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN REPLACED HERE, THERE'S BEEN TINKERED WITH AND WHAT HAVE YOU. UM, AND GIVEN SOME OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH IN THE, IN THE, IN THE TRADES RIGHT NOW, I COULD, I COULD, UH, SUPPORT THE, THE REPLACEMENT RATHER THAN REPAIR. BUT, UM, I'D HATE TO HAVE 'EM ALL KINDA JUST GO AWAY AND BE TO TOSSED IN A DUMPSTER. SO ANY THAT CAN BE REUSED, PARTICULARLY ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE OR WHERE IT'S VISIBLY, YOU KNOW? CORRECT. AND WE KNOW THAT Y'ALL HAVE, UM, FOR INSTANCE, WORK DAYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO EVEN IF THE WINDOWS THAT MAY NEED TO BE REPAIRED, WE'RE WILLING TO DONATE TO Y'ALL TO USE FOR TEACHING THE TRADES OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY USE. OR IF Y'ALL, SOMEBODY HAS A HOUSE THAT THEY CAN GO IN, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE, I'M WILLING TO DELIVER THEM WHEREVER THEY NEED TO GO. I'LL PROBABLY JUST SUGGEST TO KEEP THEM ON PROPERTY. . WELL, I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER CARPENTER WAS SAYING WAS IF THOSE THREE WINDOWS, IF LET'S JUST RIGHT NOW WHAT WE CAN SAY IS WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH A MOTION WHERE YOU REUSE THOSE THREE WINDOWS SOMEWHERE ON THE FRONT OF THE HOME. OKAY. IF FOR SOME REASON IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, YOU'LL COME BACK, BUT WE CAN NOW ASSUME THAT THERE'S AT LEAST THREE WINDOWS, SAME SIZE THAT CAN BE REUSED IN THE FRONT OF THE HOME. [02:25:01] TWO OF THE WINDOWS WERE THE SAME SIZE, I BELIEVE I THEN ONE WAS SLIGHTLY OFF. I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT, BUT I'M WILLING TO HAVE SOMEBODY MEET ME OUT THERE. WE CAN MEASURE THE WINDOWS AND SEE IF WE CAN MOVE FORWARD. THAT, OR YOU HAVE THE FAMILY ROOM HAS TWO AND THEN THE DINING AND KITCHEN HAS ONE, CORRECT. OR THE DINING KITCHEN HAS TWO, THREE AND THEY SEEM ALL TO BE YEAH. AND SO I THINK TWO ARE ON THAT BAY WINDOW AREA. SORRY, I'M GOING TO A PLAN. UH, IF STAFF COULD, COULD JUMP IN, UH, THE BAY HERE CERTAINLY, UM, WOULD BE A, FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE THREE WINDOWS THAT ARE RELATIVELY INTACT TO BE, UH, TO BE LOCATED. IF THAT WERE TO GO INTO A MOTION, JUST TRYING TO PROVIDE A LITTLE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, MI MR. CHAIR, THE, THE, UM, THE PLAN HELPS AND WHAT, UM, EDWARD IS SUGGESTING IS REALLY VERY SENSITIVE BECAUSE IN, IN EFFECT, THAT WING CAN BE, UM, PRESERVED AS AN ARTIFACT, THE WINDOWS, ALL THAT ONE HOLISTIC STATEMENT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE OVERALL HOUSE, RIGHT? SO IT'S A GOOD LOCATION AND, AND IF THERE'S ANY, UM, UH, NEED TO, TO CRAFT RIGHT IT, IT LIMITS THAT, UM, UH, TO, TO THAT WING OF THE HOUSE. AND THEN, SO, SO A MOTION COULD BE THAT THE WINDOWS WITHIN THE, THE, UH, THE AREA OF THE BAY, UH, UH, REMAIN FOR PRESERVATION AND ALL OTHER WINDOWS, UM, BE APPROVED FOR, UH, WOOD WINDOW CLAD, UH, WITH ALUMINUM TO MATCH AND A 1 0 1 OVER ONE, UM, CONFIGURATION. WELL, I WAS GONNA CRAFT A MOTION BEFORE YOU WERE IN, BUT OKAY. YEAH, GO AHEAD. BUT I, JUST TO CLARIFY, IT GOES WITH THAT, BUT I WOULD NOT SAY 1 0 1. 2 0 2, YEAH. OKAY. AND, AND REVERT BACK ORIGINAL FENESTRATION SIZES. YES, MOST DEFINITELY. SO, SO, SO I MAY ADD, SO THAT, AND THAT THEY WOULD BE, UH, THE TWO OVER TWO AS, UM, CONFIGURED IN ONE EXAMPLE IN THIS WINDOW AND THAT THEY WOULD BE, UH, SIZED, UH, TO FIT THE ORIGINAL FENESTRATIONS. ARE THOSE, ARE THOSE THREE WINDOWS REGARDLESS OF SIZE OF THE CURRENT WINDOWS TO FIT IN THERE OR NO, THEY WOULD, YOU, YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD RESTORE 'EM IN PLACE AND, AND I WOULD IMAGINE, SO ONE OF THOSE BAY WINDOWS IS A VINYL WIND FEND WINDOW. SO IF WE DON'T HAVE A WINDOW THAT FITS IN THERE, UH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. I THINK WE CAN MAYBE SALVAGE TWO OF THE THREE WINDOW OPENINGS. I THINK STAFF CAN WORK WITH YOU ON THAT. OKAY. AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING, ANY OPENINGS THAT DON'T WORK OUT, JUST CONTACT STAFF. THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO TELL YOU. PERFECT. THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. NOW, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, UM, THE ORIGINALLY FRAMED OPENING FOR WHERE THAT VINYL WINDOW IS, UH, LIKE HERE'S AN EXAMPLE, UH, RIGHT HERE, I BELIEVE THAT'S ON THE FRONT OR THE STREET FACING WINDOW OF THE BAY, UH, APPEARS THAT IT CAN BE, HIT IT WITH THE BACK WINDOW. YEAH. AGAIN, I'M OKAY WITH IT. I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND THE FULL SCOPE OF EVERYTHING WE'RE AGREEING TO HERE AND FOR, UH, CLARIFICATION FOR STAFF WHEN WE'RE CREATING THIS, THE COMMISSION ACTION LETTER, UH, AND WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT. UM, IN REGARDS TO THE TWO OVER TWO WINDOW, COULD THERE BE INFORMATION REGARDING MEETING STAFF STANDARDS AND NO PHOTO DIVIDED LIGHTS INCLUDED? YES. NOW THAT'S NOT IN YOUR LANGUAGE, IN YOUR, IN YOUR MOTION, I MEAN IN YOUR, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS. WELL, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR REPAIR, UM, BUT UH, IF THE COMMISSION IS MOVED TO APPROVE REPLACEMENT, STAFF WOULD LIKE GUIDANCE ON THAT PRODUCT. OKAY. WELL, AND THAT THE WINDOW MEETS, UH, STAFF'S, UH, THAT IS CORRECT. WOULDN'T IT MEETS STAFF'S REQUIREMENTS STANDARD STIPULATION? CORRECT. IT'S JUST THE STANDARD WINDOW STUFF. THAT'S FINE. STUFF YOU HAVE NO CHOICE ABOUT. I'LL SECOND . SO DO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE A, A CLEAR ENOUGH MOTION? IF IT COULD BE REPEATED, THAT WOULD BE GOOD. AND, AND MR. CHAIRMAN THE, TO CLARIFY THAT MOTION, I WANT TO ASK A QUESTION. YES, SIR. MR. GIS CHAIRMAN FOR MYSELF ON THIS. SO, UM, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS TO, UM, IS TO THAT ALL TWO OVER TWO ONES BE REPAIRED, UM, AND THAT THE NON VINYL, I MEAN THE NON-ORIGINAL VINYL ONES BE REPLACED. SO, UM, I KNOW WE'RE MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, ADJUSTING WINDOW SIZE IT AND STAFF WORKING WITH THE INDIVIDUAL TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO GET THIS THING DONE. BUT ARE WE, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE SOMETHING THEY CAN GET LOST IN THIS PROCESS. WE ARE STILL RECOMMENDING THAT THESE 2 0 2 WINDOWS BE REPAIRED, OR NO, YOU WANT ME TO CLARIFY? I BELIEVE THE MOTION, CORRECT ME [02:30:01] IF I'M WRONG, COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ IS FOR KEEPING THE THREE WOOD WINDOWS THAT ARE IN DECENT SHAPE AND REPLACING THE REST OF THE WINDOWS WITH TWO OVER TWO ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD THAT MEETS STAFF STANDARD STIPULATIONS. EXACTLY. OKAY, THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT CLARIFICATION. THANK YOU. THE MOTION IS, ARE THE MOTIONS AS THE CHAIR JUST SAID, BUT I DIDN'T MAKE A MOTION. . I'LL SECOND THAT IF THAT HASN'T BEEN. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. UM, I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT BEFORE WE VOTE. UH, YOU'VE PRICED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. DID YOU PRICE ALL WOOD WINDOWS? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY ALL? LIKE JUST BRAND NEW ALWOOD WINDOWS, CORRECT? I DID NOT CONSIDERING THE PRICE OF LUMBER. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. OLA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE. AND FETZER. I'M GONNA SAY NAYYY SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE ALUMINUM CLAD, BUT MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COMMISSION. UH, ARE WE GOOD HERE? AM I? THANK YOU EVERYBODY. APPRECIATE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, [24. Address/Description: 111 LABOR ST HDRC Case No.: 2021383 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Chip Collins/Alamo Architects Request: Amendment to a previously approved window and window installation depth City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 24 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 3 83 1 11 LABOR STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPRO APPROVAL, EXCUSE ME, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO AMEND A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DESIGN REGARDING THE INSTALLATION OF COMPOSITE WINDOWS AND THE RECESSING OF WINDOWS WITHIN WALLS WERE INSTALLED WITH COMPOSITE SIDING. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED COMPOSITE WINDOWS WITH THE STIPULATION THAT ALL WINDOWS INSTALLED WITHIN OPENINGS THAT COMPOSITE SIDING BE RECESSED WITHIN WALLS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION, THERE SHOULD BE A MINIMUM OF TWO INCHES IN DEPTH BETWEEN THE FRONT FACE OF THE WINDOW TRIM AND THE FRONT FACE OF THE TOP WINDOW SASH. THIS MUST BE ACCOMPLISHED BY RECESSING THE WINDOW SUFFICIENTLY WITHIN THE OPENING OR WITH THE INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL WINDOW TRIM TO ADD THICKNESS. ALL WINDOWS SHOULD BE SUPPLIED IN A BLOCK FRAME AND EXCLUDE NAILING FINS, WHICH LIMIT THE ABILITY TO SUFFICIENTLY RE RECESS THE WINDOWS. I CHIP, ARE YOU THERE? YEAH, I'M HERE. THANK YOU. UM, SO YEAH, SO THE, THE ACTUAL REQUEST WAS SIMPLY JUST TO SUBSTITUTE, UH, THE COMPOSITE WINDOWS FOR, UH, THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, UH, ALUMINUM WINDOWS. UH, THERE WAS NO CHANGE IN THE DESIGN TO THE TRIM. UM, AND, UH, SO I'M NOT SURE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHY THAT IS AN ELEMENT OF, OF THIS HEARING. UM, BUT YEAH, AGAIN, THE, THE SUBSTITUTION REQUEST WAS SIMPLY FOR, UH, THE, THE COMPOSITE WINDOWS. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, HI, THIS IS JIM BAILEY, FELLOW ARCHITECT. I'VE GOT BILLY LAWRENCE, THE DESIGN ARCHITECT. I'M THE ARCHITECT OF RECORD, UH, THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, THE PREVIOUS WINDOWS THAT WE SPECIFIED AND HAD APPROVED AT A NINE MONTH LEAD TIME. UM, WE'VE GOT PRICING HOLD FOR ANOTHER COUPLE OF DAYS ON THE, THE BATCH THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW ON OUR PROJECT, UH, OF THIS SIZE. I THINK YOU PROBABLY KNOW WHAT THE STAKES ARE. SO WHAT, WHAT WE NEED TO LEAVE HERE WITH TODAY IS AN APPROVAL OF THE WINDOW SUBSTITUTION, UM, WITH THE NAILING FINS, UH, FACE NAILED ONTO THE BUILDINGS. BUT WE CAN GET THE WINDOWS ORDERED SO THAT WE CAN GET IT DRIED IN. UM, WE ARE NEGOTIABLE ON THE TREND, I THINK IN THE, UH, DESCRIPTION. UH, ONE OF THE ALTERNATE METHODS OF COMPLIANCE WITH, UM, THIS, UM, ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD IS THAT WE MIGHT LOOK AT ALTERNATE TRIM PATHWAYS RATHER THAN RECESSING THE WINDOWS INTO THE WALL, UM, WHICH WE CAN'T GET WARRANTY. UM, WE DON'T HAVE THE TRADES TO, TO DO THAT, RIGHT? AND WRAP THE, THE FLEXIBLE FLASHING AND SOMETHING WE JUST, WE JUST CAN'T DO IT. AND SO, UM, WE THOUGHT WE WERE JUST COMING IN TO TALK ABOUT THE WINDOWS [02:35:01] SUBSTITUTION. AND SO WE ARE UNPREPARED. WE FOUND OUT WHAT YESTERDAY, THIS WEEK? YEAH, THIS WEEK THAT WE, THAT WE WERE GONNA COME BEFORE YOU. UH, HAD WE KNOWN THAT THIS WAS AT ISSUE, UM, WE WOULD'VE PREPARED, UM, UM, MATERIALS THAT DESCRIBE IN MORE DETAIL THE TRIM SYSTEM THAT'S, THAT'S PRO THAT'S PROPOSED AND BID OUT AND UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND, UM, BE PREPARED TO ENTERTAIN, UH, ALTERNATES THAT STAFF HAS, HAS, UH, PROPOSED. SO WE CAN, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE TRUE DETAILS TODAY IF YOU GUYS WANT. UM, OR WE MIGHT PROPOSE, UM, THAT YOU DO AS STAFF RECOMMENDS AND APPROVE THE WINDOW UNIT SUBSTITUTION. AND WE'D BE HAPPY TO COME BACK TO YOU, UH, AT THE NEXT MEETING WITH, UM, MORE INFORMATION TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE TRAINING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. A QUESTION FOR STAFF, MR. MR. CHAIR? I HAVE A QUESTION JUST FOR CLARIFICATION. SO, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M LOOKING AT THE, THE, UM, THE, THE DETAILS AFTER THE ELEVATION SHOW AN ANDERSON PRODUCT, IS THAT THE PRODUCT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? CORRECT. AND STAFF FINDS THE PROFILE OF THE ANDERSON PRODUCT TO BE CORRECT. UM, IT'S THE SURFACE MOUNTING THAT YOU, YOU OBJECT TO, RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT. AND THAT MOUNTING, IN ADDITION TO THE OVERALL PROFILE AND THE PACK OUT OR THE BUILD OUT OF THE TRIM, THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WINDOWS, WERE THEY, UH, DID THEY HAVE THE FINS AND DETAILED LIKE THIS? OR WERE THEY RECESSED LIKE THE STANDARDS? UH, WELL, UH, THE, I GUESS TO CLARIFY, THE PROJECT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED WITH THE STIPULATION, UM, THAT ALL WINDOWS BE RECESSED WITHIN WALLS. UH, SO PRIMARILY STAFF IS LOOKING AT PREVIOUSLY APPROVED OR PREVIOUSLY APPROVED STIPULATION IN REGARDS TO THE RECESS, UH, THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED WINDOW OR THE WINDOW THAT WAS INCLUDED. I'M NOT CERTAIN IF, I CAN'T RECALL IF THAT HAD A NAILING FIN OR NOT, BUT I BELIEVE THAT THIS PROFILE, UH, OR THE, THE INSTALLATION, THIS, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY THE REASON WHY STAFF RECOMMENDED APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE WINDOW BE RECESSED. SO QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT, UH, WERE THE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS DETAILED WITH THAT, UH, TWO INCH INSET FOR THE PREVIOUS WINDOWS? YEAH, THESE ARE THE SECOND CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS THAT WERE APPROVED. AND I MEAN, WE'RE JUST NOW BECOMING AWARE OF THAT STIPULATION. I GUESS IT'S AN OVERSIGHT ON OUR PART, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, YOU KNOW, AND IN THE PAST, YOU KNOW, WE DO A LOT OF WORK IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, AS YOU ALL KNOW. UM, WE'VE DEVELOPED A LOT OF CREATIVE SOLUTIONS, UM, FOR USING, UM, YOU KNOW, MODERN CONSTRUCTION TECHNOLOGY BUILDING STANDARDS AND, AND ACHIEVING, UM, UH, THE APPEARANCE THAT, THAT WE NEED TO, IN THE STORE DISTRICT, WE TAKE ISSUE WITH, UM, WE TAKE ISSUE WITH, UM, THE, UH, THE STIPULATION THAT THEY BE RECESSED. WE'RE ON A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE SURROUNDED BY MID-CENTURY MODERATE BUILDINGS AND NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF, UH, HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER KIND OF, I THINK, DISCUSSION ENTIRELY. UM, IN THE PAST, UM, WE'VE SUCCESSFULLY, UH, IN NUMEROUS PROJECTS HAVE HAD WINDOW TRIM DETAILS APPROVED THAT GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF A RECESSED WINDOW. AND I BELIEVE ED SENT US SOME OF THOSE EARLIER THIS WEEK AND SAID, WOULD YOU GUYS CONSIDER THIS? WE ACTUALLY THINK THE ONE WE'VE PROPOSED, UM, WILL CREATE A DEEPER SHADOW LINE AND, UM, BE MORE DRAMATIC THAN THE ONE THAT ED SENT OVER TO US, UH, THAN WE MIGHT USE IN LIEU OF. UM, BUT THAT'S WHY WE WANNA KIND OF COME BACK TO YOU GUYS NEXT MONTH SO THAT WE CAN REALLY LOOK AT THIS ISSUE. UM, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, WE CAN'T, I MEAN, OUR, OUR CLIENT IS NOT GOING TO ALLOW US TO AGREE TO RECESS THESE WINDOWS. WE CAN'T GET A WARRANTY FROM THE MANUFACTURER OR THE CONTRACTOR, AND THE HOUSING AUTHORITY IS NOT GONNA LET US DO THAT. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET CREATIVE WITH THE TRIM. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, MR. CHAIR? IF YES, THERE'S NOBODY JUMPING TO THE MICROPHONE. UM, I, I TEND TO LOOK AT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ARCHITECT, UM, THE, THE PROJECT THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, THE PART OF THE, THE STRESSES AND THE, OBVIOUSLY IN, IN THE CONSTRUCTION WORLD. BUT, BUT I THINK MORE IMPORTANTLY, UM, [02:40:01] THE BUILDING, IF WE LOOK AT THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING, IF STAFF COULD GO TO THE, TO THE LARGER IMAGE OF THE, OF THE CONSTRUCT, THAT IN ITSELF IS LIKE, IS THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS USED CONTEMPORARY, IT'S HOLISTIC. AND, UM, WOULD, WOULD TEND TO TO AGREE THAT THE LANGUAGE THAT, THAT IT'S SPEAKING IS SPECIFIC TO THE DESIGN. AND, UM, VERY INTERESTED IN THE, IN THE, IN THE IDEA THAT THE SHADOW LINE IS ACTUALLY INCREASED OR, OR THE SHADOW EFFECT HAS INCREASED. AND, UM, WITH THE REPUTATION OF THE ARCHITECT PRESENTING, I WOULD THINK IS, UM, UH, REALLY THE BETTER SOLUTION WOULD BE IN THE HANDS OF THE AUTHOR OF THE DESIGN. SO I, I'D BE IN FAVOR OF, OF, OF WHAT, UM, THE, UM, THE, UH, APPLICANT IS, IS, OR I DON'T, I, I THINK THE APPLICANT IS ASKING AND DON'T REALLY SEE A, A REASON WHY WE WOULD ASK FOR A DETAIL TO BE, UM, INVENTED TO MEET A SOLUTION THAT DOESN'T MEET A, MEET, MEET A, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENT OF THE DESIGN, BUT JUST KIND OF, UH, TO PROVE THAT THEY CAN INTERPRET A GUIDELINE WHEN THIS SEEMS TO, AS IT'S BEEN PRESENTED, WHEN IT SEEMS TO ACHIEVE THAT, THAT, UM, THAT EFFECT, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. YEAH, I MEAN, I, I THINK I TEND TO AGREE WITH THAT PARTICULARLY 'CAUSE THIS IS NEW CONSTRUCTION, LARGE SCALE. UM, AND SO I, I WOULD MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED. I'LL SECOND. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I HAVE MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. OLA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND ZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. YES. CAN WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK? YES. THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO CALL THE H D R C BACK INTO SESSION. OKAY. ITEM NUMBER 26 [26. Address/Description: 324 GARFIELD ST HDRC Case No.: 2021411 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Michael Pena/Open Studio Architecture PLLC Request: Construction of a 2.5story residential structure City Council Dist.: 1] H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 1 98. ADDRESS, 3 24 GARFIELD. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO AND A HALF STORY PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND, OH S**T, I WAS MUTED. I'M STARTING OVER. ITEM NUMBER 26 H G R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 1 98 ADDRESS, 3 24 GARFIELD. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING FINAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO AND A HALF STORY PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND FINAL APPROVAL OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION AT THIS TIME BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH M. IF THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FINDS THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION REQUEST APPROPRIATE AND RECOMMENDS FINAL APPROVAL, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS APPLY. ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCES THE HEIGHT TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE PREVAILING SCALE OF ADJACENT HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND THE HISTORIC BLOCK FACE AS NOTED IN FINDING G TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCES THE PLATE HEIGHTS TO FURTHER MINIMIZE THE OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE STRUCTURE WHEREVER POSSIBLE. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A STREET ELEVATION OF GARFIELD TO PLACE THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IN CONTEXT WITH THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES ON THE BLOCK FACE AS NOTED IN FINDING G FOUR, THAT THE APPLICANT FURTHER FURTHER DEVELOPS THE GABLE ROOF FORM IN DETAILING TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH HISTORIC PRECEDENTS IN THE DISTRICT. AS NOTED IN FINDING I FIVE THAT THE WINDOWS FEATURE A TRUE GANGED CONDITION AND COMPLY WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AS LISTED IN THE RECOMMENDATION SIX, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF THAT COMPLIES WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AS LISTED IN THE RECOMMENDATION. AND SEVEN, IF A COMPOSITE SIDING PRODUCT IS TO BE USED FOR SIDING OR SKIRTING, THE PRODUCT SHALL FEATURE A SMOOTH FINISH WITH A MAXIMUM REVEAL OF SIX INCHES. A FULL GRAIN TEXTURE IS NOT PERMITTED. ALL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND WE HAVE, UM, MICHAEL, THE APPLICANT AND CHRIS THE OWNER ON THE LINE. HEY, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. UH, I FELT KIND OF LIKE A, UH, KICKER IN THE FOURTH QUARTER OF A FOOTBALL GAME ABOUT TO GO UP AND KICK AND I GOT ICED REAL QUICK WITH THAT TIME OUT. UM, BUT I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE. UH, WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR THE PAST EIGHT, NINE MONTHS AND I'M HIGHLY ENCOURAGED BY THE LAST H D R C MEETING WE HAD, AS WELL AS THE SUBSEQUENT D R C MEETING WITH A FEW DIFFERENT COMMISSIONERS, UH, SEVERAL OF WHICH WE'VE MET WITH [02:45:01] MANY TIMES. UM, AND I THINK THE OVERALL CONSENSUS ON THIS LAST D R C MEETING WAS ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT WE, UH, FINALLY CAME UP WITH. I, I WILL SAY THAT JUST TO, UH, BACKTRACK SLIGHTLY, UM, BECAUSE I DO HAVE A NEW ARCHITECT ON, UH, LEAD FOR THIS, UH, FOR THIS BUILD. UM, JUST BACKTRACKING, YOU KNOW, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, WE HAVE, UH, WE HAVE BEEN COMPLIANT WITH EVERYTHING THAT THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE ASKED US TO DO AS WELL AS THE ASSOCIATION. UH, THERE'S NOT A SINGLE THING THAT WE HAVE PUSHED BACK ON. UM, WE, WE DO WANT TO SATISFY ALL PARTIES INVOLVED. WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A BUNCH OF 'EM. UM, BUT I HAVE BEEN MORE THAN WILLING TO, TO COMPLY WITH EVERYTHING THAT YOU GUYS, UH, HAVE SET FORTH AND PUT IN FRONT OF US. SO, UM, THAT BEING SAID, YOU KNOW, I'M ACTUALLY ON MY THIRD ARCHITECT WITH THIS PROJECT. UM, MICHAEL PENA IS NOW THE LEAD ON THE PROJECT AND, UM, YOU KNOW, MUCH LIKE A CLOSER, I'M HOPING HE COMES IN AND GETS THE W FOR US. SO HE, HE HAS NOT BEEN PRIVY TO ANY OF THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS THAT WE'VE HAD. I HAVE HAD TO RELY ON, UH, MY MEMORY AS FAR AS WHAT WAS DISCUSSED IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS AND WHAT THE TRANSITION TEAM FROM RODRIGO OVER TO HIM HAS, HAS, UH, INFORMED HIM ABOUT. SO THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS, PLEASE FORGIVE US, THAT, THAT WE ARE, OR THAT HE WILL NOT, UM, BE PRIVY TO PAST DISCUSSIONS. HOWEVER, I'M, I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE HAD, UH, COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON THIS FINAL, UH, PIECE OF THE PROJECT ANYWAYS. AND, UM, HE'S REALLY GONNA BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE FOR US. SO, UH, THAT BEING SAID, UH, IN OUR LAST D R C MEETING, UH, THE THREE COMMISSIONERS WE MET WITH PRETTY, UH, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING APPROVED WHAT WE HAVE HERE BEFORE YOU GUYS. AND SO I WOULD, UM, LIKE TO OPEN UP TO ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS THAT THE COMMISSIONERS MAY HAVE, UH, REGARDING THIS. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS? NO, WE DON'T. SO, UM, COMMISSIONER COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. I, IF FOR, JUST FOR THE PURPOSES OF, OF MY, MY INTERPRETATION RIGHT, ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS AND CLARIFYING, UM, MY NEXT COMMENT, I WOULD SAY 1, 2, 3 AND FOUR SEEM TO BE MORE OR LESS THE SAME COMMENT. 'CAUSE ONE IMPLICATES, TWO DUPLICATES, THREE AND FOUR IS, I, I WOULD IMAGINE ONLY A PROBLEM BECAUSE OF ONE, TWO, AND THREE. THAT BEING SAID, IF I COULD GET STAFF TO SCROLL DOWN TO THE, UH, THE ELEVATION. YOU HAVE IT ON THE, YOU HAVE IT ON THE SCREEN, BUT I'M, I'LL JUST REFER TO IT OVER HERE. THE NORTH ELEVATION ONE IS VERY TELLING, DRAWING. SO WITH RESPECT TO PLATE HEIGHTS, WITH RESPECT TO THE OVERALL HEIGHT MASSING, WHICH I THINK ALL OF THE OTHER, THE OTHER, UH, STIPULATIONS AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE VERY SIMPLE, UH, AND VERY TYPICAL RIGHT TO, TO WHAT WOULD BE EXPECTED. BUT, BUT IN TERMS OF SQUASHING THIS BUILDING DOWN FURTHER OR, OR ADJUSTING ITS PROPORTIONS, WE CAN SEE THAT THE, THAT THE ROOF THAT GROWS OFF OF THE GABLE IN THE, IN, IN THE NORTH ELEVATION IS, IS IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE ROOF DECK TO ROOF DIMENSION, RIGHT? UM, AND, AND IT JUST SEEMS THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S RIGHT WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE, UH, UM, WITHOUT, UM, NECESSARILY, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SEEING HOW IT INTERIOR, UH, SECTION RELATES TO WHAT WE SEE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THIS BUILDING IS PROPORTIONS ARE RIGHT. AND, UM, I I THINK WITH RESPECT TO THE OTHER MEETINGS THAT WE'VE HAD HAD, UH, WITH THIS, WITH THIS APPLICANT, I THINK THEY'RE, THEY'RE THERE. UM, THE, THE, THE HARDEST PART IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE, TO THE ITEM NUMBER, UH, THREE, WHICH SHOULD ALWAYS BE REALLY IN THE ELEVATION. 'CAUSE THOSE OTHER TWO HOUSES ARE SO TINY. BUT I THINK WE'VE ALSO JUST HEARD A, UM, A PRESENTATION RIGHT BEFORE US THAT IS THE BUILDING THAT IS THE 4, 5, 6 STORY BUILDING THAT'S GOING IN FRONT OR OR NEAR FRONT OF THIS PROPERTY. SO THE ARGUMENT THAT THEY HAD MADE EARLIER IN TERMS OF THE VIEW TOWARD THE HEMISPHERE, WHAT THIS HOUSE IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE, AND THEN CONSIDERING THE HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT, LET'S SAY THE HOUSES YOU SEE FROM 2 81, THEY'RE THERE IF, IF IT'S NOT GONNA BE MANDATED THAT THEY LOSE A FLOOR. SO IF, IF THAT IS NOT, UH, PART OF THE ASK, [02:50:02] CONSIDERING THAT THEY DID GO TO A D R C ALREADY, I THINK THEY'VE, THEY'VE, THEY'VE MET THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THEY'VE KIND OF SIMPLIFIED THINGS, ESPECIALLY COMING FROM WHERE THEY WERE TO WHERE IT'S, IT'S ALMOST JUST A HOUSE. IT STILL HAS A NICE PROPORTION ZONE. IT'S, IT'S STILL KIND OF TALKING ITS OWN TALK. SO I, I, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING THAT THEY'VE, THEY'VE GONE FROM ARCHITECT TO ARCHITECT, I GUESS, AND I GUESS THE OWNER HAS HAD TO HOLD THE LINE. I THINK HE'S DONE A GOOD JOB AND I JUST LIKE TO SAY, I HOPE WE'RE READY TO LET THIS PROJECT BECOME A REALITY IF WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT HE'S GONNA LOSE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER. IF I MIGHT ADD JUST REAL QUICK, THE PREVIOUS PROJECT THAT YOU GUYS WERE LOOKING AT, UH, GUYS AND GALS WERE LOOKING AT WAS ONE 11 LABOR STREET. AND THAT'S THE APARTMENT COMPLEX IN FRONT OF US. THEY STARTED CONSTRUCTION AS FAR AS THE ELEVATION OF IT THIS WEEK. SO THE ELEVATOR SHAFTS HAVE BEEN BUILT, THEY ARE EXTREMELY TALL IN RELATION TO MY HOUSE. MATTER OF FACT, I WAS OUT THERE THIS MORNING, IT WAS TOO LATE TO SUBMIT THE PICTURES, BUT I DID TAKE A PICTURE FROM GROUND LEVEL AND IT IS, IT, IT'S ONLY GONNA BE TALLER. THAT'S JUST THE, THE CINDER BLOCK, UM, ELEVATOR SHAFT. SO IT IS MU IT IS ACTUALLY MUCH LARGER THAN I IMAGINE THAT IT WOULD BE JUST FROM OUR PRELIMINARY ESTIMATE TO THE SIZE, JUST ADDING MR AND MR. CHAIR, LET ME CORRECT SOMETHING. THE, THE SITE SECTION B IS SPEAKING TO ITEM THREE ON THE RECOMMENDATION. SO THERE IS THAT RELATIONSHIP DRAWING THERE. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. TRUBY? YES, COMMISSIONER, UH, UH, VELAZQUEZ, THE, THE ELEVATOR SHAFT THAT, UH, MR. DOCKER IS, IS REFERRING TO, YOU KNOW, IN EFFECT GOES TO A FOURTH FLOOR ON THAT RESIDENCE ACROSS THE STREET OR THE, A APARTMENT COMPLEX ACROSS THE STREET THAT ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ALIGNING WITH A, BASICALLY A FOURTH FLOOR, BUT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY NEED TO GET ACCESS FROM THEIR ELEVATOR TO THAT ROOF. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. AND MR. CHAIRMAN, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER HERE? YES. UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS, THIS APPLICANT HAS DONE A LOT TO, UH, TRANSFORM THE, THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL AND TO, UH, SUBSUME THAT THIRD LEVEL INTO THE MASS. SO THIS THING APPEARS TO BE, UM, YOU KNOW, A TWO, TWO STORY STRUCTURE. UM, AND SO I'M, I'M IN SUPPORT OF IT. LET ME ASK THOUGH, ASK THE APPLICANT, UM, TO COMMENT. I, I AGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER ABOUT, UH, ITEMS, UH, STIPULATIONS ONE THROUGH FOUR. I THINK IF WE PUT THOSE ASIDE, 'CAUSE THOSE, THOSE HAVE TO DO WITH MASSING CONCERNS THAT I THINK THAT YOU'VE ADDRESSED TO MY SATISFACTION. UH, STIPULATIONS FIVE, SIX AND SEVEN. DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO THOSE? MICHAEL, I'LL LET YOU SPEAK TO THAT. WITH REGARDS TO FIVE, THE WINDOW FEATURE AND THE GANG CONDITION, COULD YOU ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH REGARDS TO OUR ELEVATIONS WHERE YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING AS FAR AS IT, OR RATHER IT NOT HAPPENING OR IS IT THE SPACING OR IS IT JUST THAT, UH, UH, EAST ELEVATION THAT YOU'RE SEEN? SURE. UH, I'LL BE HAPPY TO, TO ELABORATE UPON THAT AND, AND STAFF CAN JUMP IN IF I HAVE THIS WRONG. WHEN, WHEREVER YOU HAVE PAIRED WINDOWS, UM, I THINK THE PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO SHOW KIND OF A, A, UH, A, A MOLD DETAIL BETWEEN THEM RATHER THAN FRAMING THOSE WINDOWS SO CLOSE TOGETHER IN A NON HISTORIC MANNER. SO IN THE CASE OF LIKE THE WEST ELEVATION, WE SEE FOUR WINDOW GROUPINGS OF TWO PAIRS EACH, OR, OR, OR TWO WINDOWS EACH. AND I THINK WHAT THEY'RE REQUESTING THERE IS THAT THERE BE A, A MEETING MOLD BETWEEN THEM SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST THIS THIN, UH, YOU KNOW, FRAME LIKE WHAT YOU SEE AT THE, UH, AT THE JAM CONDITIONS. UNDERSTOOD. AND STEPH CAN JUMP IN HERE JUST TO SAY THAT WE CAN WORK WITH YOU AS YOU MOVE INTO CONSTRUCTION. IF THIS GETS APPROVED TO, TO FINESSE THAT DETAIL AND MAKE SURE IT ALIGNS WITH OUR STIPULATION, THAT WOULD BE PERFECT. UH, UH, AS FAR AS SIX, THERE'S NOT A PROBLEM WITH THE STANDING SEA. IN FACT, WE'VE SELECTED MATERIALS THAT WERE, UH, APPROPRIATE AND RECOGNIZED BY THE COMMITTEE, UM, AND THE SITING AS WELL. I DON'T THINK THERE SHOULD BE ANY ISSUES, UH, UNLESS, UH, THE, UNLESS CHRIS THINKS THERE'S, UH, SOME OTHER ISSUE THAT I THINK WE COULD, WE DON'T, THAT WE WON'T ALREADY ADDRESS. OKAY. WITH THAT, NO, I DON'T. AND MATTER OF FACT, I THINK YOU'RE, UM, THE, UH, THE WINDOWS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. UM, PUTTING THAT KIND OF A BREAK IN THE CENTER WITH THE TRIM PIECE. SO IT DEFINITELY WOULD TAKE IT TO A MORE HISTORIC LOOK AND FEEL. SO I'LL IMPLEMENT THAT FOR SURE. UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, WITH THOSE COMMENTS, I WOULD MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS [02:55:01] FIVE, SIX, AND SEVEN. I'LL SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. OLA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND BUTZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. AND WE DO THANK YOU FOR WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WITH THE COMMISSION AND THE D R C AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT'S BEEN A, IT'S BEEN A LENGTHY PROCESS, BUT I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS SO MUCH. WE'LL SEE YOU ON THE NEXT ONE. THANK YOU. ITEM [27. Address/Description: 126 E MISTLETOE HDRC Case No.: 2021418 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Jay Louden/Work5hop Request: Metal roof installation with ridge cap City Council Dist.: 1] NUMBER 27 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH FOUR 18 ADDRESS, 1 26 EAST MISSILE TOW. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING STANDING SEA METAL ROOF TO INCLUDE A VENTED RIDGE CAP AND END CAP. THE WORK WAS COMPLETED WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR A PERMIT. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST AS PROPOSED STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE ROOF REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDINGS A AND B WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF FEATURING PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES WIDE. STEAMS THAT SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES HIGH, A CRIMPED RIDGE SEAM AND A STANDARD GALVAO FINISH. PANELS SHOULD BE SMOOTH WITHOUT STRIATION OR CORRUGATION. RIDGES ARE TO FEATURE A DOUBLE MUNCH OR CRIMPED RIDGE CONFIGURATION. NO VENTED RIDGE CAPS OR END CAPS ARE ALLOWED. AN ONSITE INSPECTION MUST BE SCHEDULED WITH O H P STAFF PRIOR TO THE START OF WORK TO VERIFY THAT ROOFING MATERIALS MATCH THE APPROVED SPECIFICATIONS. ALL CHIMNEY, FLU AND RELATED EXISTING ROOF DE DETAILS MUST BE PRESERVED. AND THE APPLICANT, JAY LOUDIN, IS HERE TO PRESENT. JAY, SORRY ABOUT THAT. YOU ARE A PANELIST NOW. GREAT, THANK YOU. YES, SIR. MR. LOUD, YOU MAY PROCEED. GREAT, THANK YOU. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIR AND COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS JAY LOUDON. I'M WITH THE LOCAL FIRM CALLED WORKSHOP. UM, WHILE WE'VE APPEARED BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE A NUMBER OF TIMES BEFORE, THIS IS A BIT OF AN UNUSUAL SITUATION. UM, MY CLIENT OWNS A SMALL BUSINESS, A SALON. UM, SHE HIRED A GENERAL CONTRACTOR TO RENOVATE A DENTIST'S OFFICE INTO A SPACE FOR HER SALON. UM, THE CONTRACTOR PROMISED TO PERMIT THE PROJECT PROPERLY, BUT HE DID NOT AND IS IN FACT NOW SANCTIONED BY THE CITY. UM, I WAS BROUGHT ON AFTER CONSTRUCTION WAS COMPLETED TO HELP BRING THINGS BACK INTO COMPLIANCE ON A NUMBER OF FRONTS. UM, SO THE ISSUE AT HAND HERE IS THE METAL ROOFING. UM, A NEW METAL ROOF, WHICH YOU CAN SEE IN THE IMAGES THERE, UM, WAS AN INSTALLED TO REPLACE ONE, WHICH WAS PUT ON IN 1984, UM, WHILE THE GENERAL ROOF CONFIGURATION FINISH AND PANEL DETAILS MATCH THE PREVIOUS ROOFING. UH, THE NEW ROOFING, AS YOU CAN SEE, HAS A RIDGE AND END CAPS. UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST FOR THE NEW ROOF, BUT STIPULATES THAT A CRIMPED RIDGE CAP IS INSTALLED AND THAT NO END CAPS ARE USED, UH, IN ACCORDANCE, OF COURSE WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, SO IN LIGHT OF THAT, WE HAVE INVESTIGATED THE POSSIBILITY OF REMOVING THE INSTALLED RIDGE CAP AND END CAPS AND REPLACING THEM AS STIPULATED, UH, AND IN EFFORT TO SALVAGE, SALVAGE THE EXISTING INSTALLATION. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE. UM, UNFORTUNATELY AT THIS POINT, UH, WITH THIS INSTALLATION TO INCORPORATE THAT CRIMPED RIDGE SEAM REQUIRES REPLACING THE ENTIRE ROOF, UM, DUE TO CONDITIONS AT THE RIDGE AND THE HIPS. UM, UNFORTUNATELY SIMPLY REWORKING THE RIDGE PIECE ITSELF TO A CURRENT PIECE ISN'T POSSIBLE. UM, SO THAT COST IN THE RANGE OF AROUND 40,000 TO $60,000 IS A TREMENDOUS BURDEN FOR A SMALL BUSINESS, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE, UM, REQUESTING APPROVAL OF THE RIDGE CAP IN ITS CURRENT CONFIGURATION. UM, SO WE, MY FIRM IN PARTICULAR, WE UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH A PREFERENCE FOR A CURRENT RIDGE SCENE. UM, IN FACT, THAT'S THE WAY WE WOULD'VE DETAILED IT TO START WITH, UH, BUT WE'RE LOOKING FOR LENIENCY IN THIS SITUATION GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES. AND I'LL ALSO NOTE THAT THE REST OF THE WORK, UM, WAS DONE CONSISTENT WITH THIS WORK DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, THAT WOULD BE, UH, REPLACEMENT OF WOOD SIDING AND TRIM, UH, MATCHING EXISTING PROFILES AND REPAINTING THE BUILDING WITH COLORS. ALL OF THAT WAS DONE VERY CAREFULLY, UM, SELECTED VERY CAREFULLY BY THE OWNER, UH, AND DONE CORRECTLY. SO WHILE THE OWNER WAS MISLED BY THE CONTRACTOR REGARDING APPROVALS BY THE CITY, UM, THE, THE CLEAR AND DELIBERATE INTENT WAS TO PRESERVE THE BUILDING. UM, IF YOU GO TO THE, THE NEXT SLIDE THERE, UM, I'LL ALSO NOTE THAT THIS INSTALLATION WOULD NOT BE UNIQUE TO THE AREA. UM, THERE ARE MANY EXAMPLES OF RIDGE CAPS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN MONTE VISTA, AND I'M NOT GOING TO DO AN TALKATIVE SURVEY OF THE, OF THESE ROOFS. UM, BUT THIS SLIDE IN THE NEXT TWO, THE NEXT SLIDE ARE ALL EXAMPLES OF METAL ROOFS WITH RIDGE CAPS AND MONTE VISTA. UM, THESE ARE JUST THE FIRST 16 THERE, THERE ARE MORE EXAMPLES OF THOSE AS WELL. UM, SO IN CLOSING, [03:00:01] DO SEE THE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES ON THIS CASE. UH, WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST APPROVAL OF THE ROOF AS IT IS INSTALLED. UM, SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND SERVICE AND I INVITE ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE. THANK YOU, SIR. DO WE HAVE A CITIZEN COMMENTS? UM, JUST THE LETTER IN YOUR PACKETS. OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTION MR. LOUDON. UM, THE PHOTOS ARE HARD TO TELL. IS THIS JUST A RIDGE CAP OR IS IT A VENTED RIDGE CAP? IT IS JUST A RIDGE CAP. UM, UH, I WOULD POINT YOU TO THE LOWER RIGHT HAND PHOTO. IF YOU LOOK KIND OF IN THE, THE V OR YOU SEE THE SKY THERE, THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT BEST. IT'S A SOLID PIECE THERE. YEAH. THANK YOU FOR ZOOMING IN. SO IT IS NOT A VENTED RICH CAP. IT IT IS, IT IS SOLID. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR. IN, IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, IT SEEMS THAT THE, THE SITUATION BEFORE US IS ONE OF A, OF A, I'M, I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SAY APPROVAL, BUT ACCEPTANCE OF THE ROOF AS IT IS BECAUSE THE ONLY OTHER OPTION WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE TO GO AND REDO THE ROOF. THAT BEING SAID, LOOKING AT THE, AT THE AERIALS FOR WHAT IT IS, IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE NICER JOBS THAT WE'VE SEEN. VERY CLEAN LINES. AND I GUESS BECAUSE IT'S NOT A VINTAGE RIDGE, THAT RIDGE IS PULLED REAL CLOSE TO THE ROOF, SO IT DOESN'T REALLY CREATE MUCH OF A SHADOW LINE. IT'S THERE. WITH RESPECT TO THE PICTURES THAT WERE SHOWN, PERHAPS THERE'S AN EMERGING, UH, DIFFERENCE OF TECHNOLOGY IN THE WAY THAT ROOFERS ARE NOW SKILLED AT DOING ROOFS. SO TO SAY THAT THEY MAY NOT BE SKILLED AT DOING THOSE OTHER ROOFS RIGHT THE WAY THEY USED TO DO 'EM. BUT IN THIS CASE, THIS DOES PRESENT, UH, YOU KNOW, ALTHOUGH NOT, MAYBE NOT THE RIGHT WAY, A SOLUTION TO THAT, THAT RICH CAP LINE, WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO PULL THAT CAP LINE AS CLOSE TO THE ROOF AS POSSIBLE. SO I, I I, I, I WOULD, UM, BE IN FAVOR OF, OF, UM, OF ENABLING THIS, THIS ROOF TO REMAIN AS, AS IS AND WITHOUT COMPLIMENTING ANYBODY FOR DOING SOMETHING WITHOUT THE PROPER PERMITS, I I DO APPRECIATE HOW CLEANLY IT'S DONE. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. I KNOW WE HAVE DEALT WITH SITUATIONS LIKE THIS IN THE PAST, AND ONE QUESTION, UH, THE PHOTO IN THE UPPER LEFT HAS AN END CAP, THAT LITTLE TRIANGULAR PIECE, WHICH REALLY TELEGRAPHS THE, THE MESSAGE THAT THIS IS NOT A TRUE HISTORIC, UH, REPLACEMENT. IS THAT DETAIL. IS IT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY THAT DETAIL SO THAT WE DO NOT HAVE THAT LITTLE END CAP, UH, SO THAT YOU SEE THE ACTUAL, UH, TOP PART OF THE RIDGE FROM THE GABLE END? THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION. UM, I CANNOT ANSWER IT AFFIRMATIVELY WITHOUT TALKING WITH THE ROOFING CONTRACTOR WHO CARRIES THE WARRANTY ON THIS PROJECT. UM, SPEAKING AS AN ARCHITECT, I WOULD EXPECT THAT IT COULD BE, UH, BUT OF COURSE THAT THAT END CAP WRAPS OVER THE, THE, UH, THE, THE EDGE PIECE THERE. UM, SO, SO THE END CAP CAN PROBABLY BE RETROFITTED. UM, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN EXPLORE. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. YES, MS. GROUP. UM, I AGREE. I MEAN, I, I THINK WHAT WE COULD DO, WELL, FIRST, COMMISSIONER OF ALASKA'S COMMENTS, IT IS ONE OF THE BETTER JOBS THAT WE HAVE SEEN. UM, I, I, TO ME IT'S HARD ALWAYS TO SEE THESE, I MEAN, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF LATELY METAL, ROOF, NON-COMPLIANT METAL ROOFS. UM, SO I THINK WE, I WOULD SUPPORT A MOTION TO ACCEPT IT AND, AND, AND THE MOTION WOULD STATE TO REMOVE THE END CAP AND THEN FOR THE APPLICANT, IF THERE'S NO WAY TO REMOVE IT OR MODIFY IT, THEN YOU COME BACK TO US. I SECOND THAT AS AS STATED. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. WAS THAT MOTION CLEAR ENOUGH? IT WASN'T A MOTION, BUT I GUESS IT, OKAY, FINE. COULD, COULD I REQUEST SOME, SOME MORE CLARITY ON PRECISELY WHAT WE MIGHT DO WITH THAT END CAP? WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO SAY MODIFY THE END CAP TO MATCH THE LINES OF THE GABLE? PERHAPS INSTEAD OF HAVING THE FLAT ACROSS THE BOTTOM THAT, THAT WOULD BE GOOD LANGUAGE COMMISSIONER GROUP? YEAH, THAT WORKS TO FOLLOW THE LINES OF THE GABLE OF [03:05:01] THE INNER GABLE. THANK YOU. MOTION. A MOTION TO APPROVE AS SUBMITTED WITH ADDED STIPULATION TO MODIFY THE END CAP TO, UH, TO FOLLOW THE INTERIOR GABLE LINE. SECOND. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT WE HAVE SOLVED THIS SITUATION BEFORE IN A SIMILAR MANNER. SO THIS COMMISSION IS DEALING WITH A, THIS KIND OF STICKY, UH, UH, PROBLEM, UH, IN, IN A, IN A, IN AT LEAST A CONSISTENT WAY. SO I WOULD BE SUPPORT OF THIS. AND MI MR. CHAIR, IF I COULD JUST ADD FOR MR. CARPENTER, IF YOU'LL RECALL THAT LAST PERSON THAT DID THIS, THAT PUT YOU SEE THE, THE THIRD PICTURE, HOW THEY, THIS THIS ROOFER ENABLED THE, THE SHINGLES TO GO OVER THE FLASHING, NOT LIKE THE LAST ONE WHERE THE FLASHING WAS WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, OF THE SHINGLES. YEAH, CLEARLY SOMEONE KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING HERE. THEY JUST NEED TO GET PERMITS. ALL RIGHT. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELASQUEZ AYE. OLA AYE. CARPENTER AYE GROUP. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. CHRISTIAN GRIT IS THE APPLICANT. I'M TRYING TO MAKE HIM A PANELIST AND IT'S LOCKED SOMEHOW. IS THERE MR. GRIT, IF YOU'RE GETTING A REQUEST FROM ME, MAYBE YOU CAN ACCEPT IT. JUST A NOTE. UH, ITEM NUMBER 28 WAS WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT. WE'RE NOW ON ITEM 29. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 29 [29. Address/Description: 330 W AGARITA AVE HDRC Case No.: 2021415 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Christian and Anndee Gritte Request: Front side yard fence replacement City Council Dist.: 1] H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 15 3 30 WEST AGARITA. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FRONT SIDE YARD FENCE WITH A FOUR FOOT TALL HORIZONTAL WOOD PRIVACY FENCE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE FRONT YARD SIDE OR FRONT SIDE YARD FENCE REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH B WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS SOLID FENCING AT A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THREE FEET OR AN OPEN FENCE DESIGN AT A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF FOUR FEET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT UPDATED MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AND A SITE PLAN SHOWING THE FENCE LOCATION TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND TWO, THAT THE FENCING MUST BE PERMITTED AND MEET DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. OUTLINE THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OUTLINED IN E D C SECTION 35 5 14. AND THE APPLICANTS AND OWNERS, ANDY AND CHRISTIAN GRIT ARE WITH US VIRTUALLY. UM, NO THEY'RE NOT. THEY'RE , THEY'RE ON MY ATTENDEE LIST. I'M TRYING TO MAKE CHRISTIAN A PANELIST AS I DID WITH EVERYONE ELSE THAT IT'S NOT ACCEPTING THE REQUEST. UM, MR. GRID, IF YOU CANNOT, IF YOU CAN HEAR, WE'RE GONNA ATTEMPT TO CALL YOU AND, AND PHONE YOU IN THAT WAY. SO STANDBY MR. CHAIR, AM I CORRECT IN, IN WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, THERE IS NO IMAGE OF WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED RIGHT THERE. THERE'S NOT ANOTHER SET OF DOCUMENTS, RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. I THINK WE'VE GOT CHRISTIAN GRIT NOW. MR. CRIT, ARE YOU THERE? THERE? YEP, I'M RIGHT HERE. SORRY ABOUT THAT. OKAY, SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE ABLE TO HEAR, BUT RACHEL HAS, UM, OPENED UP YOUR CASE FOR, UM, PRESENTATION AND SO YOU CAN UH, SORT OF MAKE YOUR CASE TO THE COMMISSIONERS NOW IF YOU'D LIKE. SURE. SO, UH, THE CASE THERE IS JUST THE, THE FENCE ON THE FRONT, YOU SEE THAT'S WHAT CURRENTLY A FOREFRONT FENCE. WE'RE LOOKING TO REPLACE THE FENCE ALL AROUND THE PROPERTY, INCLUDING THAT ONE. UM, AS IT STATES IS UH, CAN ONLY REPLACE IT WITH A THREE FOOT FENCE, WE'RE ASKING FOR A FOUR FOOT FENCE AS IT IS CURRENTLY. UH, THE MAIN REASON IS BECAUSE THERE'S A VACANT LOT NEXT, NEXT DOOR, WHICH YOU CAN UM, VAGUELY SEE THERE. IT IS QUITE OVERGROWN AT THE MOMENT AND UM, THERE ARE PRETTY TALL BUSHES OVER THERE. UH, JUST THIS WEEK THERE WERE A FEW PEOPLE THAT, UM, SLEPT IN THAT LOT OVERNIGHT. UM, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LOT IS A PARKING LOT AND A BUSINESS, UM, AND THEN [03:10:01] IT BACKS UP TO SAN PEDRO. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT FENCE REALLY, UM, KEEPS OUR FRONT YARD, UM, AWAY FROM THE, THAT EMPTY LOT. AND JUST FROM, YEAH, A VIEWING PERSPECTIVE AS WELL AS A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE, WE'D LIKE TO, UH, REPLACE OUR CURRENT FENCE ALL AROUND. THAT'S KIND OF, UH, IN DISREPAIR RIGHT NOW. UH, WE MOVED IN ABOUT A YEAR AGO, SO WE'RE TRYING TO RE PASTE THAT FENCE AND JUST WANNA REPLACE IT WITH, UH, THE, THE SAME SIZE FENCE THAT IS CURRENTLY THERE. THANK YOU SIR. UM, DO WE HAVE CITIZEN COMMENTS? WE DO NOT. I'M SORRY, WE'RE ON 29. YEAH, SO WE DO HAVE A LETTER IN YOUR PACKETS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE A VOICEMAIL. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, QUESTION MR. GRIT. THE PHOTO THAT'S UP THERE HAS A STONE PILLAR AT THE CORNER OF YOUR LOT. UH, DO YOU KNOW HOW TALL THAT IS? UM, I WOULD GUESS THAT'S ABOUT SIX FOOT. UH, IT LOOKS, UH, LESS THAN THE FENCE BECAUSE THERE IS A, UH, LIKE A BULKHEAD RIGHT THERE ON OUR PROPERTY, WHICH IS WHERE THE CURRENT WOODEN FENCE SITS ON AND THEN THEY, IT GOES DOWN. UH, AND THOSE, UH, BRICK PILLARS, UH, PROBABLY ABOUT SIX FOOT ALL THE WAY AROUND. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. I WANNA ASK THE APPLICANT, SO THE SIDE WOOD FENCE YOU WANNA REPLACE AS IS AND THAT IS SIX FEET OR FOUR FEET. UH, THE PORTION IN THE FRONT YARD IS UH, FOUR FOOT AND YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT AT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, MAYBE NOT ON THIS PICTURE, BUT A DIFFERENT PICTURE. THEN IT STEPS UP TO SIX FOOT AT THE FACADE OF THE HOUSE AND, AND THAT'S THE PART YOU WANT FOUR FEET, WHICH I WOULD SUPPORT AND THEN COR CORRECT. OKAY. AND THEN IN THE FRONT YOU ARE DOING THE SAME KIND OF WOOD FENCE, ATTACHING IT, I MEAN YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ATTACH IT TO THAT CONCRETE, BUT WHERE WOULD YOU START IT? UH, IT'S GOING TO FOLLOW THE EXISTING LINE. IT'LL BE IN THE EXACT SAME SPOT AND THE, ACTUALLY THE SAME HEIGHT, WE'RE JUST ASKING TO REPLACE IT. UH, YOU CAN SEE IN PLACES IT'S FALLING OVER, THERE'S A LOT OF TREES AND BUSHES GROWING IN AND OUT OF IT. AND STAFF CAN CLARIFY, THERE'S NOT A REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL FENCING, JUST THE REPLACING OF THAT FRONT PORTION OF THE SIDE YARD FENCE. OH, SO IT'S KIND OF ALMOST REPLACING IN KIND OR REPAIRING WHAT'S THERE? CORRECT. OH, I, I MEAN I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. I THINK WE HAD A CASE RECENTLY NEXT TO A PROPERTY THAT WAS ALSO CREATING SOME, UM, INSECURITIES, UM, BETWEEN PROPERTIES AND SINCE, I MEAN YOU HAVE THE SIX I, I WOULD, I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT FOUR FEET. MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, SO JUST A QUICK QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. IN, IN THE WRITE UP HERE IT TALKS ABOUT A HORIZONTAL WOOD PRIVACY FENCE. ARE, ARE YOU WANTING TO DO HORIZONTAL OR ARE YOU WANTING TO DO VERTICAL PICKETS LIKE YOU HAVE HERE OR VERTICAL PLANKS? UM, YEAH, I THOUGHT TODAY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, JUST THE VERTICAL WE WOULD, I MEAN OUR PREFERENCE IS A HORIZONTAL FENCE ALL THE WAY AROUND. UM, IF THAT CAN GET APPROVED. IF NOT, WE ARE MORE THAN OKAY WITH THAT VERTICAL FENCE IN THE FRONT. YEAH, I, I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF JUST BASICALLY REPLACING KIND, UM, YOU KNOW, THE CHARACTER OF THE, THE VERTICAL FENCING IS, IS MORE TYPICAL FOR, FOR THAT AREA, FOR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS IN GENERAL. WE, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF KIND OF THE HORIZONTAL, UH, PARTICULARLY IN THE LAVACCA AREA, UH, WHERE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, DIVERSITY OF ARCHITECTURE. SO I WOULD, I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE IF, UH, IF THE APPLICANT WOULD BE ACCEPTING OF A, UH, VERTICAL UH, PICKETS RATHER THAN GOING HORIZONTAL WITH IT. HE NODDED. SO LET'S CREATE A MOTION . OKAY, SO GIVEN THAT, UM, I, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE FENCE NOT EXCEED FOUR FEET IN THE FRONT. UM, GO UP TO SIX FEET AT THE PLANE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND BE COMPOSED OF VERTICAL PICKETS. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. OLA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRO AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU SIR. AGENDA ITEM [30. Address/Description: 455 MARY LOUISE HDRC Case No.: 2021426 Historic District Name: Monticello Park Applicant: Teresa Hill Request: Exterior door replacement City Council Dist.: 7] NUMBER 30 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 26 4 55. [03:15:01] MARY LOUISE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO REPLACE THE EXISTING DIVIDED LIGHT SIDE ENTRY DOOR WITH A FIBERGLASS DOOR. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH B. IF THE H D R C IS COMPELLED TO APPROVE THE PROPOSED DOOR REPLACEMENT STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A REPLACEMENT DOOR THAT MATCHES THE EXISTING SIDE ENTRY DOOR AND MATERIAL SIZE AND PROFILE. THE REPLACEMENT DOOR MUST NOT FEATURE FO DIVIDED LIGHTS OR INTERNAL BLINDS. THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT UPDATED MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE EXISTING SCREEN DOOR SHOULD BE RETAINED AND THE APPLICANT AND OWNER THERESA HILL HAS JOINED US VIRTUALLY. CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? YES MA'AM. OKAY. UM, AFTER READING THE REVIEW OF OUR APPLICATION, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE FIBERGLASS REPLACEMENT DOOR DOES NOT MEET THE HISTORICAL GUIDELINES. HOWEVER, THE CURRENT DOOR WHICH ACCESSES OUR BEDROOM, CANNOT BE MADE SECURE AND IT CANNOT BE MADE WEATHERPROOF OR ENERGY EFFICIENT. SO WE ARE ASKING THE H D R C FOR PERMISSION TO REPLACE THE DOOR WHILE ADDRESSING THE STIPULATIONS RECOMMENDED BY THE STAFF. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. WITH THAT STATEMENT, I WOULD LIKE TO UH, MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STIPULATION THAT THE DOOR BE REPLACED IN KIND SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION AND A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. OLA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND FEDOR AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA [31. Address/Description: 2511 N FLORES ST HDRC Case No.: 2021395 Landmark Name: Individual Landmark Applicant: Natalia Quesada Request: Front yard fence installation, porch handrail installation, Historic Tax Certification City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM NUMBER 31 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 3 9 5 25 11 NORTH FLORES THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE. INSTALL A FRONT YARD FENCE, TWO. INSTALL FRONT PORCH HANDRAILS AND THREE, RECEIVE HISTORIC TAX CERTIFICATION. ITEM ONE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF FRONT YARD FENCE INSTALLATION BASED ON FINDINGS C THROUGH D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS FRONT YARD FENCING THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE STRUCTURE SUCH AS WOOD PICKET, FENCING, ROT, IRON FENCING, OR WOOD FRAMED CATTLE PANEL FENCING BASED ON FINDING D. UPDATED MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND TWO, THAT THE FINAL CONSTRUCTION HEIGHT OF THE APPROVED FENCING MAY NOT EXCEED THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF FOUR FEET AS APPROVED BY THE H D R C AT ANY PORTION OF THE FENCE. ADDITIONALLY, THE FENCING MUST BE PERMITTED AND MEET THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OUTLINED IN U D C SECTION 35 5 14. ITEM TWO. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE FRONT PORCH HAND RAILING INSTALLATION BASED ON FINDING E WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE RAILINGS AT THE FRONT PORCH ARE FULLY WOOD AND FEATURE BOTH THE TOP AND BOTTOM RAIL. THE BOTTOM RAIL SHOULD FEATURE A VERTICAL ORIENTATION AND SHOULD BE INSTALLED APPROXIMATELY THREE TO FOUR INCHES ABOVE THE STEPS. BOTH TOP AND BOTTOM RAIL SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTED FROM TWO BY FOUR MEMBERS. THE PROPOSED RAILING SHOULD NOT FEATURE AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF MORE THAN THREE FEET AND THE APPLICANT MUST SUBMIT EVIDENCE THAT THE INSTALLED HANDRAILS MEET THE STIPULATION TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, ITEM THREE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF HISTORIC TAX CERTIFICATION BASED ON FINDINGS F THROUGH H WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT REMOVES THE EXISTING FRONT YARD FENCING OR INSTALLS APPROPRIATE H D R C APPROVED FRONT YARD FENCING PRIOR TO RECEIVING THE SUBSTANTIAL REHABILITATION TAX INCENTIVE. THE APPLICANT WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE SUBSTANTIAL REHABILITATION TAX INCENTIVE AND MAY RETURN TO THE H D R C TO REQUEST HISTORIC TAX VERIFICATION ONCE THE PROPERTY HAS COME INTO COMPLIANCE. AND THE APPLICANT AND OWNER, NATALIA QUESADA, IS WITH US VIRTUALLY AND HAS REQUESTED TRANSLATION SERVICES. WILL YOU JUST START BY ASKING IF SHE CAN HEAR US? YES, I CAN HEAR SO YOU CAN ASK HER. OKAY. UM, [03:20:10] WHAT I WANTED TO ADD TO WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS THAT WE NEED TO INSTALL THE FENCE IN DIFFERENT, UH, HEIGHTS BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE, THE TERRAIN, IT HAS A DIFFERENCE OF, UH, UM, LEVELS. AND WE NEED, UH, THEN TO START WITH FOUR, UM, FEET, AS YOU SAID, BUT AT SOME POINT WE NEED TO USE MORE HEIGHT IN THE FENCE SO IT CAN BE, UH, LEVELED ALL THE WAY. AND ANOTHER THING I WANTED TO SAY IS THAT THE HANDRAILS WERE INSTALLED AS, UH, THE CITY REQUIRED WITH ALL THE CODES. THAT'S IT. THAT'S IT. I QUESTION FOR STAFF. UM, WHEN Y'ALL WERE IN DISCUSSIONS WITH THIS APPLICANT ABOUT APPROPRIATE FENCE STYLES, DID Y'ALL SEND HER PHOTOS OR DRAWINGS OF WHAT, UH, WOULD BE CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE? NO, WE HAVEN'T SHARED EXAMPLE PHOTOS AT THIS TIME, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY WORK WITH THE APPLICANT ON APPROPRIATE FENCING. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, THE GENERAL REGULATIONS ARE THAT ANY FENCING THAT IS IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE BE NO MORE THAN FOUR FEET TALL. YEAH, I AGREE. UH, ALL THE FENCE IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE IS FOUR FEET. I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE SLOPE IN THE BACK PART. OKAY. IN THE, ONCE YOU GET PAST THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THEN FROM THE, UH, A SIX FOOT TALL FENCE IS ALLOWABLE. NO, I THINK, I THINK WHAT SHE'S MISUNDERSTANDING IS THAT, UH, BECAUSE IT CREATES A SLOPE, SHE THINKS THAT IT CREATES A HEIGHT OF MORE THAN FOUR FEET. NA WELL, NO, BECAUSE, UH, BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE, UH, THE PART THAT IS FOUR FEET WOULD LOOK LIKE IF IT WAS TWO FEET. OKAY. THE FOUR FEET, OH, SORRY. YEAH, THE FOUR FOOT HIGH FENCE IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE WOULD FOLLOW THE SLOPE. SO AS YOU GO BACK FURTHER TOWARDS THE HOUSE, YOU'D STILL HAVE A FOUR FOOT TALL FENCE. RIGHT. SO ARE YOU IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE FOUR FEET, MS. NATALIA? YES, IT IS. IF I HAVE TO PUT IT BACK, I MEAN, THAT'S FINE. AND SO TO CLARIFY, THAT'S THE FOUR FEET IS MEASURED RELATIVE TO THE, THE IMMEDIATE SLOPE OF THE, OF THE, AT, AT THE BASE OF THE FENCE, NOT JUST A CONTINUOUS HORIZONTAL DISTANCE ACROSS THE ENTIRE PROPERTY. SO SHE MAY HAVE TO STEP IT UP OR, OR, OR HAVE TRANSITIONS. OKAY, THAT'S FINE. I UNDERSTAND. A QUESTION FOR STAFF, A REASON FOR WHY SHE SAID THAT HER HAND RAILING ARE ACCORDING TO THE CITY. IS THAT A A D A MAYBE THAT'S WHY [03:25:01] SHE'S REQUIRING FOUR FEET ON THE HANDRAIL. I, I THINK SO. THEY MADE ME DO THAT IN MY HOUSE, SO, SO I'LL SUPPORT THAT AS, AS IT IS. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE HANDRAIL OF THE PORCH AS SUBMITTED AND APPROVAL OF THE FRONT YARD FENCE AS DISCUSSED WITH THE APPLICANT TODAY, NOT EXCEEDING FOUR FEET IN THE FRONT YARD, BUT PERMITTED TO GO, UH, TO A MAXIMUM OF SIX FEET AFTER IT, UH, PASSES THE FRONT PLANE OF THE STRUCTURE. AND THAT, UH, SHE WORKED WITH, UH, STAFF TO CONTINUE TO CONFIRM, UH, HER UNDERSTANDING OF THESE CONDITIONS. SECOND, UH, CLARIFICATION. COULD YOU INCLUDE, UH, THAT THE FENCE DESIGN BE ONE OF THE APPROVED, UM, OR RECOMMENDED DESIGNS? ABSOLUTELY. SO I, UM, UH, AN ADDITIONAL STIPULATION THAT THE FENCE DESIGN BE ONE THAT IS, UH, APPROVED BY, UH, O H P STAFF AND ADD ITEM THREE. YEAH? YES. AND, UM, AND INCLUDE ITEM THREE FOR THE, UH, SUBSTANTIAL REHABILITATION TAX INCENTIVE QUALIFICATION. SECOND. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. FERNANDEZ. AYE. GIBBS? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. ARLA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. I BELIEVE ALL WE [Approval of HDRC Meeting Minutes for August 18, 2021.] HAVE ARE THE APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM AUGUST 18TH. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE H D R C MEETING MINUTES FROM AUGUST 18TH, 2021. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES. MOTION TO ADJOURN. MOVE TO ADJOURN. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH . * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.