* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. DANIEL, GIVE ME THE ALL [00:00:01] CLEAR WHEN WE'RE LIVE. ALL RIGHT, JEFF, I'D LIKE TO CALL [Roll Call] TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 15TH, 2021. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ FISH. HERE. SINO? HERE. QUEZ? HERE. HERE. CARPENTER. HERE, GROUP. HERE. ROMAN ZER. HERE LA WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE DO HAVE A BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING TRANSLATION SERVICES FOR THE MEETING. THANK YOU. CAN WE PLEASE, PLEASE HAVE THE [Chairman’s Statement] CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT? THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE A CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY, AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL AND APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH THIS MEETING THROUGH LIVESTREAM. THEY CAN ALSO LISTEN TO THE MEETING THROUGH AUDIO ONLY BY CALLING 2 1 0 5 4 8 3 IN ENGLISH OR IN SPANISH. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT REQUIRE TRANSLATION SERVICES, THE INTERPRETER WILL TRANSLATE OVER THE PHONE AS NECESSARY. IN A, IN AN EFFORT TO HEAR ALL THE CASES ON THE AGENDA, APPLICANTS WILL NEED TO SUMMARIZE THEIR STATEMENTS AND BE AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE SPEAKING IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION EACH HAVE A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES FOR THEIR COMMENTS, AND EACH COMMISSIONER WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS REGARDING EACH APPLICATION. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME, I'LL ASK O H P STAFF TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR TODAY'S MEETING. THANK YOU. UM, ONE QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT. WE DO HAVE A NEW COMMISSIONER WITH US TODAY. UH, MONICA SAVINO REPRESENTING DISTRICT TWO, UM, HAS JOINED US. AND SO, UM, SHE'S PRETTY EXPERIENCED WITH THE H C R C HAS PARTICIPATED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, UM, AND MOST RECENTLY HAS SERVED ON AS A CITIZEN MEMBER OF OUR DESIGN VIEW COMMITTEE. SO, UH, WE WELCOME HER AND WE THINK SHE'S A GREAT ADDITION. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, MONICA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, AND THEN JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MEETING FORMAT. UM, WE DO HAVE, UH, SEVERAL, UH, PEOPLE HERE IN PERSON TO PRESENT OR, UM, VIEW ITEMS IN PERSON, UM, AS WELL AS MANY OF YOU HAVE JOINED US VIRTUALLY. UM, IF YOU ARE AN APPLICANT WHO HAS JOINED THE MEETING VIRTUALLY, UM, WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN, WE WILL MAKE YOU A PANELIST. SO PLEASE LOOK OUT FOR MY REQUEST. WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN, YOU'LL NEED TO ACCEPT THAT, UH, TO BE SEEN AND HEARD WHEN IT'S RETURNED TO PRESENT AN ITEM. UM, AND WITH THAT WE'LL MOVE FORWARD. UM, [Public Comments] ON THE SCREEN, YOU DO HAVE THE CASE LIST. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE 13 ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. UM, WE DO HAVE VOICEMAILS FOR ITEMS TWO AND THREE, WHICH WE'LL PLAY NOW, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY CITIZENS SIGNED UP IN PERSON TO SPEAK ON ANOTHER ITEM. SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND PLAY VOICEMAILS, WRITE 'EM TWO AND THREE. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I'M SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING OUR COMMENTS ON H D R. CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 1 7 4 19 NORTH MESQUITE STREET, 4 23 NORTH MESQUITE STREET, 4 27 NORTH MESQUITE STREET. WE DO NOT SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL, BUT WE DO SUPPORT STAFF STIPULATIONS. FURTHERMORE, THERE ARE NINE STIPULATIONS. [00:05:01] THIS LEAVES STAFF TO MAKE SURE ALL STIPULATIONS ARE MET AND INCREASED INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD THAT AGREED UPON STIPULATIONS WILL BE MISSED WHEN THE APPLICANT RETURNS FOR C O A. A PARTICULAR CONCERN IS THE MASSING. BOTH THE HEIGHTS AND VOLUMES OF THE BUILDINGS ARE TOO GREAT FOR A STREET COMPRISED ALMOST ENTIRELY OF ONE STORY HOMES. THE STREET FACING DETACHED GARAGE IS NOT NORMALLY FOUND IN OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD AND DOES NOT EMULATE A CARRIAGE. HOUSE AND DESIGN RECOMMENDED BE REMOVED TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY AND FEATURE MORE TRADITIONAL ROOF FORMS AND WIDTH HEIGHT RATIOS. THIS PROJECT IS NOT READY FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. ITEM THREE, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I'M SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HILLS HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING OUR COMMENTS ON H D R CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 26 ADDRESS, 3 3 4 ERS STREET. WE DO NOT SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL, BUT WE DO SUPPORT STAFF STIPULATIONS. FURTHERMORE, THERE IS NO SITE PLAN WITH DIMENSIONS TO PROPERLY SHOW SIDE SETBACKS, DRIVEWAY WIDTHS, AND LOT COVERAGE. THE ONDI DIMENSION DRAWING PROVIDED SHOWS THE DRIVEWAY TAKING UP THE ENTIRE SPACE FROM FENCE TO HOUSE WHILE A CAR MAY FIT OPENING THE DOORS WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE. THE WEST ELEVATION LACKS ADEQUATE FENESTRATION. THE ROOF PITCH IS SHALLOWER THAN NORMALLY FOUND IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. WHILE THE WALL SECTION DRAWING DOES REFER TO A WOOD WINDOW AS SCHEDULE, THE SCHEDULE IS NOT INCLUDED. THE SLEEVE STAFF TO SOMEHOW MAKE SURE THE CORRECT WINDOWS ARE INSTALLED. THIS HAS BEEN A CHRONIC PROBLEM WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT EITHER PROVIDE COMPLETE WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS IN THE APPLICATION FOR APPROVAL OR THAT STAFF SCHEDULE A PRE WINDOW INSTALLATION INSPECTION. THIS PROJECT IS NOT READY FOR APPROVAL. OKAY, I BELIEVE THAT'S [CONSENT AGENDA] ALL OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WE HAVE ON ITEMS ON CONSENT. UM, PLEASE REMEMBER TO CHECK YOUR FOLDERS FOR ADDITIONAL LETTERS, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY, UM, AFTER HEARING THOSE, DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION? UM, I WOULD LIKE TO PULL, UH, CASE NUMBER TWO AND CASE NUMBER THREE. OKAY, WE'VE GOT THOSE MARKED ON THE SCREEN. MR. CHAIRMAN, IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER CASES TO BE, UH, PULLED FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSENT OR OR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL FOR ITEMS ONE FOUR THROUGH 13 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. I SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SAVINA AYE. VELASQUEZ AYE. SO, AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. AYE. THAT, SIR? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE APPLICANT AND THE OWNER'S FOUR ITEMS 12 AND 13. UH, THE 89 11 AND 89 31 CALLAHAN FOR BRINGING THOSE FORWARD, UH, FOR HISTORIC DESIGNATION. IT'S, UM, UM, HEARTENING TO SEE THAT THEY RECOGNIZE THE, UH, CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THOSE BUILDINGS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS AS ONE 18 BROADWAY 5 0 1 WEST COMMERCE 3 31 ROOSEVELT, 5 0 5 EAST PARK, 2 33 FLORIDA, 6 0 2 EAST DEWEY, 39 0 3 NORTH ST. MARY'S, 6 0 6 THROUGH 6 0 8 LABOR 1 36 MULBERRY, AND 89 11 THROUGH 89 31 CALLAHAN, YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO REMAIN ON THE VIRTUAL STREAM OR HERE IN PERSON. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF O H B STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR YOUR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. OKAY. UM, I HAVE [2. Address/Description: 419 N MESQUITE ST 423 N MESQUITE ST 427 N MESQUITE ST HDRC Case No.: 2021417 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Pegy Brimhall/Figurd, LLC Request: Construction of three, 2story residential structures and one, 2story accessory structure City Council Dist.: 2] MADE PEGGY BRIMHALL A PANELIST. I BELIEVE SHE'S THE APPLICANT FOR ADAM TWO. PEGGY, ARE YOU THERE? YES. HI. UM, APOLOGIES. AM I SUPPOSED TO SHARE MY SCREEN OR NO, THIS IS FINE. I WILL SUGGEST THAT YOU LEAN A LITTLE CLOSER TO YOUR MICROPHONE SO WE CAN HEAR YOU A LITTLE BIT BETTER. OKAY. AND THE COMMISSIONERS, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I AND THEN EDWARD WILL GET THE CASE FILE ON THE SCREEN. I THINK WE'RE STILL SHOWING THE CASE LIST. UH, MY SCREEN IS BEHIND, UH, CORY. UH, THERE WE GO. COULD YOU, COULD YOU, UM, RE REMIND ME THE ADDRESS, MESQUITE CASE NUMBER TWO? YES. COMMISSIONER, ITEM NUMBER [00:10:01] 2 4 19 TO 4 27 NORTH MESQUITE. OKAY. YES. COMMISSIONER SAVINO, YOU ASKED FOR THESE FOR DISCUSSION? YES, I DID. THANK YOU. UM, UM, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. AND, UM, FIRST DO WANNA SAY, I, I REALIZE THAT THERE IS A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO, IN ORDER TO DESIGN THREE HOUSES ALL AT ONCE SIMULTANEOUSLY. LIKEWISE, THE STAFF HAS QUITE THE, THE CHORE OF REVIEWING ALL THREE OF THESE HOUSES AT ONE TIME. AND SO I THINK PART OF THE, OR ONE OF THE BYPRODUCTS SOMETIMES IS THAT WE'RE, UM, ALLOWING A FEW, A FEW VERY IMPACTFUL CRITERIA TO NOT BE ADDRESSED, ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE CRITERIA THAT DOES RELATE TO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, HEIGHTS, MASSING, HISTORIC URBAN DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS, AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. ON THIS, ON THIS REVIEW, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN, UM, MATERIALS SO MUCH AND WINDOWS AND WINDOW MATERIALS AND SOME OF THOSE OTHER DETAILS. AT THIS POINT, MY QUESTIONS ARE ONLY ABOUT THE HEIGHT, THE MASSING AND THE URBAN DEVELOPMENT PATTERN. SO, UM, UM, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO, UM, CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT, UM, LET'S SEE, UM, IF WE GO TO FINDINGS E AND H AS WELL AS STIPULA STIPULATIONS ONE, TWO, AND THREE, THEY ADDRESS THOSE THINGS, SETBACK, ORIENTATION, MASSING, AGAIN, THESE THINGS THAT ARE REGARDING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR PROJECT? DESCRIBE YOUR PROJECT AS IT RELATES PRIMARILY AND SPECIFICALLY TO THAT CRITERIA REQUIRED FOR THIS, UM, APPROVAL REQUEST TODAY? PEGGY, IF YOU'RE SPEAKING, YOU'RE MUTED RIGHT NOW. OOPS, SORRY. UH, THANK YOU, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, REGARDING THE STIPULATIONS. I SENT NOTICE TO ED, UH, WEEK AGO OR SO SAYING THAT WE AGREE TO ALL STIPULATIONS 100% AND WE ARE CURRENTLY MAKING IMPROVEMENTS TOWARDS THOSE. UH, WE HOPE TO PRESENT TO YOU AT D R C, UH, IN A COUPLE WEEKS TO SHOW YOU HOW THAT HAS CHANGED. BUT I CAN ANSWER THE STIPULATION THE, THE CHANGES WE'RE MAKING NOW BECAUSE THESE DRAWINGS ARE IN PROGRESS. I, I HAVE, I WILL HAVE A CD SET READY IN THE NEXT THREE TO FIVE BUSINESS DAYS FOR ALL THREE HOUSES THAT SHOW, UH, AGREEMENT TO ALL THE STIPULATIONS. SO, UM, ED, SORRY, CAN YOU DO ME THE FAVOR? CAN YOU READ OUT THE FIRST STIPULATION THAT THE COMMISSIONER IS REFERRING TO? YES. STIPULATION ONE THAT THE APPLICANT ORIENT THE STRUCTURE TOWARD DAWSON IS NOTED IN FINDING E. OKAY. YES, WE ARE DOING THAT. WE'RE CREATING AN ENTRANCE TO THE LIVING ROOM ON DAWSON. THAT ENTRANCE WILL BE CONNECTED TO THE DRIVEWAY, SO IT WILL BE THE ENTRANCE THAT THE HOMEOWNER WILL TYPICALLY USE, UM, ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS. STIPULATION TWO, THAT THE FRONT SETBACK FOR THE CORNER STRUCTURE BE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY. UH, AT 5 26, DAWSON IS NOTED IN FINDING F I'LL PULL UP THE SITE PLAN NOW. OKAY. SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE AN EQUAL SETBACK, UH, SO WE FEEL WE, UH, COMPLY WITH THAT GUIDELINE. CAN WE SAVINO, DID YOU ALSO MENTION ITEM THREE OR STIPULATION THREE? YES, I DID. OKAY, I'LL READ THAT. THAT THE APPLICANT TAKE MEASURES TO REDUCE THE OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION. AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE IS NOTED IN FINDING H UH, AND I'LL GO TO A DIAGRAM THAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED. UH, IT'S, UH, STREET ELEVATION DIAGRAM. YES. UH, SO WE ARE REDUCING ALL OF OUR CEILING HEIGHTS TO NINE FEET. WE DID HAVE 10, AND IN THE SECOND FLOOR WE HAD, UH, SOME PITCHED CEILINGS THAT WOULD GO A BIT HIGHER THAN THAT. WE'RE REDUCING IT ACROSS THE BOARD DOWN TO NINE AT, ON BOTH LEVELS. SO THESE HOMES WILL BE SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER. WE ALSO PROVIDED A 24 INCH FLOOR PLATE, UH, FOR, UH, UH, MECHANICAL SYSTEMS TO BE ABLE TO RUN THROUGH THE HOUSE THROUGH THE FLOOR, BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARY. UH, [00:15:01] SO WE HAVE ALSO REDUCED THAT TO 12 INCHES MAKING EACH ONE OF THE HOMES, UH, AT LEAST THREE FOOT LESS TALL. OKAY, THANK YOU. THE, THE PART I SUPPOSE THAT, UM, REALLY CONCERNS ME IS YOUR CHOICE TO DO THREE, TWO STORY HOUSES IN THE BLOCK THAT STAFF HAS NOTED IS PREDOMINANTLY, MAINLY ENTIRELY SINGLE STORY. CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT DECISION OR HOW YOU CAME ABOUT TO THAT? YES. CURRENT LIFESTYLES TODAY REQUIRE A BIT MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAN, UH, IN THE PAST. UH, SO IN ORDER FOR THESE HOMES TO, UH, SUFFICE FAMILIES OF FIVE OR MORE, WHICH IS WHAT THEY ARE INTENDED FOR, YOU KNOW, LARGE FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN WHO GO TO SCHOOL, UM, WE ARE PROVIDING, UH, PRIVATE BEDROOMS FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE POTENTIAL CHILDREN. UH, AND THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, INCREASES THE MASS. ANOTHER THING WE WANTED TO PROVIDE IS PLENTY OF PORCH SPACE. AND SINCE THOSE PORCHES ARE UNDER THE MAIN ROOF AND NOT DESIGNED AS APPENDAGES, THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, MAY ALSO ATTRIBUTE TO THE FACT THAT WE'RE DOING IT ON TWO LEVELS. WE WANT OUR, UH, IN, UH, USERS TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY OUTDOOR SPACE, BOTH ON LEVEL ONE AND LEVEL TWO. AND, UH, AS A RESULT, WE GET TWO STORY HOMES ON THIS CORNER. BUT WHILE THEY ARE PERHAPS NOT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AT A RATIO OF MORE THAN 50%, THEY ARE DEFINITELY THERE. UH, WE HAVE, UH, AN EXAMPLE OF A TWO STORY HOME THAT'S LESS THAN TWO BLOCKS AWAY ON THE SHEET. IF ED, YOU CAN SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE. UM, AND SO THAT TYPE OF MASSING, WHICH IS TWO BLOCKS AWAY, IS THE MASSING THAT WE'RE EMULATING. I THINK THAT GOING FROM ONE STORY TO TWO STORY IS A NATURAL EVOLUTION FROM 1820 TO, OR 1910, WHICH IS WHEN THESE HOMES WERE BUILT TO 2020, WHICH IS MORE THAN A LITTLE MORE THAN A HUNDRED YEARS LATER. OKAY, THANK YOU. I MAY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS LATER, BUT I DO WANNA GIVE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS A CHANCE TO ALSO ASK SOME QUESTIONS. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. YES, SIR. UH, TO THE APPLICANT ARE, ARE, I'M ASSUMING THAT THESE ARE HOUSES THAT ARE SOLD. SO ARE, ARE, IS THE INTENT IN ANY WAY TIED TO WHAT IS CONSIDERED AFFORDABLE HOUSING? UH, YEAH. NO, THESE ARE, UH, NOT TIED TO ANY, UH, HOUSING PLAN. UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN SAN ANTONIO IS GEAR. THOSE PROGRAMS ARE GEARED TOWARDS MULTIFAMILY AND USUALLY BUILDINGS THAT HAVE MORE THAN THREE UNITS. UH, SO NO, THIS PROJECT IS, IS WAY TOO SMALL TO QUALIFY FOR ANY TYPE OF AFFORDABLE PROGRAM. UM, MY CLIENT IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH THAT. THESE WILL BE, YOU KNOW, MARKET RATE HOMES, UH, UH, INTENDED TO FIT WITHIN THE EXISTING MARKET RATE COMMUNITY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER JUST HAVE, UH, ONE COMMENT THAT'S GENERATED BY THE, UH, THE LETTER THAT WAS PROVIDED BY A NEIGHBORHOOD MEMBER. UM, COULD YOU SPEAK TO WHETHER YOU HAD EXPLORED OTHER STRATEGIES FOR DEALING WITH PARKING, UM, SO THAT GARAGE DOORS WERE NOT THE THINGS THAT WERE PRESENTING THEMSELVES TO THE, UH, TO THE PUBLIC? OH, YES. UM, SO, UH, WE HAVE, UH, ON EACH OF THE SITES, WE ARE, UH, PRESENTING DIFFERENT GARAGE SOLUTIONS EXCEPT FOR, UH, WELL, ACTUALLY, LET ME REPHRASE THAT. HOUSE B AND C, WELL, LET ME GO A STEP FURTHER BACK. HOUSE B USED TO HAVE A ATTACHED GARAGE. WE HAVE SINCE REMOVED THAT IN ORDER TO REDUCE THE MASSING ON HOUSE B. AND WE CREATED A DRIVE THAT WILL HAVE AN AWNING COVERING AND PROTECT AND THEREFORE PROTECTING THE, THE VEHICLE AT THE FAR END OF THE STREET. UH, HOUSE C IS, UH, DEALING WITH THIS IN THE SAME MANNER. HOUSE A IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, AND THIS IS BECAUSE WE SAW AN OPPORTUNITY IN MIRRORING WHAT WAS HAPPENING ACROSS THE STREET. SO, UH, ED, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE FIRST PAGE WHERE THE IMAGES OF THE TEAL HOUSE ARE? UH, LOOK, SECOND PAGE APOLOGIES, OR THIRD . THERE IT IS. OKAY. IF YOU DRAWING NUMBER SIX, UH, [00:20:01] UP ON THE UPPER LEFT, UP, UPPER RIGHT CORNER. SO THAT GARAGE APARTMENT IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS HOUSE, AND WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE NICE TO COMPLIMENT THAT BY MIRRORING IT. UH, SO WE ARE, UH, PROVIDING A SIMILAR STRUCTURE THAT IS FAR SET BACK ON THE PROPERTY. ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS WAS TO, UH, INCREASE THAT SETBACK EVEN FURTHER. SO WE NOW HAVE IT ON THE, UH, UH, 20, WE DECREASED IT FROM 20 AND A HALF FEET DOWN TO 20 FEET, AND WE SET IT ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK, WHICH IS THE FURTHEST THAT WE CAN DO. UH, SO, UH, YOU WILL SEE THAT WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN TO, TO FURTHER MIRROR THIS BECAUSE THAT STRUCTURE THAT YOU SEE ACROSS THE STREET IS ALSO SET BACK PRETTY FAR. UH, COMPLIMENTING WHAT IS IN THE AREA AND, AND CREATING A RHYTHM AND A PATTERN IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED IN GENERAL IN THE HISTORICAL GUIDELINES. AND SO, UH, IN, YOU KNOW, IN THE SPIRIT OF THAT, WE THOUGHT THAT THIS, UH, HOUSE A COULD BE, UH, COMPLIMENTARY AND, AND UNIQUE IN THAT SENSE, IN THAT IT'S TALKING TO ITS NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS. UM, WOULD YOU BE, UH, WILLING TO CONSIDER NOT PUTTING A SHED ROOF ON THAT, UH, BUT PERHAPS DOING DEFINITELY A GABLE JUST TO ONCE AGAIN PULL DOWN THE MASS AND KIND OF GET THE HIERARCHY OF PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? UH OH, YES. UH, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE FUN TO PLAY WITH THE, WITH THE SLOPE OF THE DORMER THAT'S NEXT TO IT, BUT, UH, I UNDERSTAND THAT, UH, UH, THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE OR, UH, NOT, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, NOT THE BEST IDEA, . SO WE HAVE SINCE, UM, UH, PUT A GABLE ROOF ON THERE THAT HAS THE SAME TYPE OF PITCH AS, AS THE HOME ON THE PROPERTY. SO IF YOU CAN IMAGINE, UH, IT WILL BE SET FURTHER BACK AND HAVE A GABLE ROOF. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I'LL NOTE THAT'S ALSO ONE OF STAFF STIPULATIONS. THANK, THANK YOU. YES, APPRECIATE THAT. AND YEAH, I DID PICK UP ON, FROM YOUR ELEVATIONAL DRAWING THAT YOU WERE, YOU WERE, UH, BASICALLY TRANSMITTING THAT DORMER ROOF DOWN. BUT I THINK JUST TO HELP PULL THINGS DOWN A BIT, IT WOULD HELP. SO I HAVE A QUESTION REALLY TO THROW OUT TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. DO WE FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO GIVE CONCEPTUAL AND HAVE THIS LONG LIST OF ITEMS BE WORKED OUT FOR, FOR A FINAL, OR SHOULD WE DIRECT THIS TO A D R C? WELL, MR. CHAIR, YES, SIR. I, I, UM, I, I, I KIND OF WANNA JUST, JUST, UH, SAY THAT ON WITH, WITH RESPECT TO THE IMAGE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW, I, I WANT THE APPLICANT TO KNOW THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE THE ARCHITECTURAL RESPONSE THAT THAT DORMER COMES OFF, THAT ROOF COMES OFF, AND THAT IN REALITY, THAT IS AN ORIGINAL THOUGHT. IT ADDS ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY, OTHERWISE, IT'S KIND OF FITTING INTO A, AN EXISTING, UH, LANGUAGE THAT IS, I THINK, VERY ELEMENTARY THAT, THAT WITH, WITH WHAT IS BEING DONE THERE. THERE'S CLEARLY AN I FOR THE LINES, WHAT, WHAT, I MEAN, I THINK WHAT THE CLASSICS CALL THE REGULATING LINES OF YOUR ORIGINAL INTENT. SO I, I WOULD, I WOULD ASK MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER TO, YOU KNOW, TO ALLOW, ALLOW A TEETERING OF, OF, UH, CREATIVITY WITH RESPECT TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THAT, THAT PLAYFUL, BEAUTIFUL AND WELL-READ INTENTIONAL DECISION. BUT, UM, THAT BEING SAID, UH, I FEEL COMFORTABLE, UH, WITH, UM, IT AS PRESENTED FOR CONCEPTUAL, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP, MR. CHAIR. UH, YES, MS. GROUP. I, I FEEL COMFORTABLE WE'VE WORKED WITH THIS APPLICANT BEFORE. SHE'S ACTUALLY PRESENTED A FEW GOOD PROJECTS. I FEEL COMFORTABLE MOVING FORWARD WITH A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, UM, ESPECIALLY SINCE, UM, MS. BRIMHALL HAS SAID THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO BRING BACK THE, THE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS TO A D R C FOR REVIEW. SO I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE AS WELL. MR. CHAIR, MAY I ALSO COMMENT? YES, MA'AM. UM, MS. BIMAL, CAN YOU PLEASE CONFIRM ONCE AGAIN WHAT THE FINISHED FLOOR HEIGHT IS TO BE? WELL, THE FINISHED FLOOR HEIGHT HAS TO BE 12 INCHES ABOVE GRADE AS PER H D R C GUIDELINES. SO THE FINISHED FLOOR HEIGHT WOULD BE THREE [00:25:01] INCHES ABOVE THAT, SINCE WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, PUT OUR SUBSTRATE AND THEN OUR FINISHED WOODEN PLANKS ON TOP OF THAT, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS THAN THREE INCHES. SO LET'S SAY IT'S SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 14 AND 15 INCHES ABOVE GRADE. UH, HOW THERE, THERE MAY BE DEVIANCES, RIGHT? BECAUSE THE, THE LAND ISN'T A HUNDRED PERCENT, UH, FLAT. IN FACT, WE'RE KIND OF BEGINNING AN UP SLOPE TO DIG WHITTY HILL. SO THAT WOULD BE THE MINIMUM HEIGHT. WHEREVER THE GRADE GOES LOWER THAN THAT, THERE WOULD BE MORE FOUNDATION. AND SO THE FINISHED FLOOR WOULD BE HIGHER THAN 14 TO 15 INCHES. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, AND RESPONDING TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, UH, REGARDING A POSSIBLE, UM, D R C MEETING ONE MORE TIME. I, MY OBSERVATION OF THE PLAN AND THE ELEVATIONS AND THE INTENT TELLS ME THAT THERE'S VERY, VERY LITTLE ROOM FOR ERROR FOR RENEGOTIATION REDESIGN. AND I KNOW ON A COUPLE OF THESE HOUSES WITH EVEN A 12 INCH FINISHED FLOOR, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SPACE, SPACE FOR STAIRS TO GET OUT AND MEET THAT PARKING STRIP BECAUSE THE PARKING IS PRETTY TIGHT. EVERYTHING SEEMS TO BE REALLY, REALLY TIGHT. AND IN THIS CASE, I FEEL LIKE WE ACTUALLY OWE IT TO THE APPLICANT TO HELP ANTICIPATE THOSE PROBLEMS AND POSSIBLY REMEDY THEM BEFORE THEY GO TO A CD SITUATION AND THEY CAN NO LONGER BE RESO RESOLVED. CAN I COMMENT ON THAT? YES, MA'AM. THANK YOU. UM, UH, SO MONICA, WELCOME TO TO THE COMMISSION. I, I THINK WE'VE INTERACTED BEFORE, MAYBE FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS FIRST STARTING OUT IN SAN ANTONIO. I, UH, HAVE A, UM, UM, IN THE TECH WORLD. IT'S CALLED SCRUM, LIKE A SCRUM WAY OF WORKING, UH, WHERE WE DO SHORT SPRINTS IN ORDER TO GET TO CD SET. UH, SO I DO WANT TO, UH, TELL THE COMMISSION THAT, UH, MAKING CHANGES DURING THE CD PHASE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT RESTRICTS ME FROM GETTING TO THE, TO THE END. UM, IN FACT, UH, BEING ABLE TO STAY COMMUNICATIVE AND COLLABORATIVE DURING THE CD PHASE NOT ONLY HELPS MY TEAM GET THERE FASTER, BUT WE, UM, ALSO, UH, CREATE SOMETHING THAT EVERY, EVERYONE IS ABLE TO INPUT. UH, BEING ABLE TO GET TWO STAIRS DOWN ONTO THE DRIVEWAY, TWO STEPS DOWN ON THE, TO THE DRIVEWAY IS NOT A MAJOR, UH, SETBACK FOR THE DRAWING PROCESS. IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE EASILY INTEGRATED AND EVEN UPDATED 24 TO 48 HOURS BEFORE THE FINAL SUBMISSION MAY SOMETIMES EVEN LESS. UM, WE HAVE VERY, UH, HIGH POWERED COMPUTERS AND WE USE, UH, THREE D MODELING, UH, A SOFTWARE THAT CAN BE ADAPTED QUICKLY. AND OUR P D F PRINTERS, UH, WORK IN SECONDS. SO, SO IT'S, IT'S OKAY. IT, IT'S NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT GONNA HURT ME TO MAKE CHANGES AT THE LAST MINUTE. OKAY. THANK YOU, MS. BIMAL. SO YOU WOULD BE, UM, OKAY WITH MAKING THE HOUSES SMALLER, SHOULD THAT BE THE CASE? WELL, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR MY CLIENT. UH, SO, UH, PROGRAMMING AND, UH, SPATIAL ISSUES, UH, IT ALSO NEEDS TO RELATE TO THE CURRENT, UH, UH, INTERESTED BUYER AND WHAT A HOME FOR THEM IS LIKE. WHILE I AGREE ALSO FITTING INTO DIGNA WITTY, I, I CONTINUE TO, UH, UH, STAND ON THE POSITION THAT THERE ARE MANY TWO STORY HOMES THAT PROVIDE, UH, UH, APPROXIMATELY 2000 SQUARE FEET WORTH OF CONDITION SPACE. AND OUR HOME IS NO DIFFERENT. I'M, I WOULD BE GLAD TO RUN AN ANALYSIS ON WHAT THE CONDITIONED, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE IS IN THE AREA AND SHOW YOU HOW WE COMPARE, UM, MI MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR. UM, I, I, I, IN THE INTEREST OF, UM, OF CLARIFYING WHAT IS OUR ROLE AND WHAT IS BEFORE US, UH, I, I WANT TO THANK THE APPLICANT FOR, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, A GOOD SET OF DRAWINGS AND, AND A CLEAR, UH, ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE AND, UH, IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM SHOULD YOU, YOU KNOW, BE GIVEN THE IMPRESSION THAT SOMEHOW YOU'RE ANY LESS ADEQUATE THAN ANYBODY UP ON THE DAIS. RIGHT? BUT, UM, I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT THE TERM MAKE THE HOUSE SMALLER IS INSIDE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, THE, THE CON A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL [00:30:02] IS NOT WITHOUT THE TESTIMONY UP HERE AT THE DAIS, UM, AS IT'S RECORDED AND, AND IT'S PART OF THE RECORD. SO I THINK THAT IT'S, THERE'S VERY CLEAR CONVERSATION ABOUT, UH, UH, WHAT A MAJORITY WOULD AGREE WITH, WITH RESPECT TO ANY VOTE THAT'S GIVEN. AND I THINK THAT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, THE, THE IDEA THAT THE ROOF THAT'S PRESENTED ON THAT, ON THAT GARAGE IS ANY LESS VALUABLE THAN A MORE TYPICAL GABLE ROOF. THAT ALL OF THAT IS ON THE, ON THE, UH, ON THE, UM, IN, IN, IN INHERENT IN, IN WHATEVER WE VOTE ON. BUT AS FAR AS WHETHER THE APPLICANT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, UM, AGREEING TO A VERY ABSTRACT, MAKE THE HOUSE SMALLER, I THINK THE THING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE, ON THE, UM, UH, THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF. AND WHEN IT COMES TO ANY IDEA OF MASSING STAFF HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR ABOUT THE, THE HEIGHT, RIGHT? IN WHICH WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS REGULARLY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER 12 INCHES IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE OVERALL DESIGN OF THE HOUSE, OR WHETHER 12 INCHES IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE SCALE OF THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? THAT, THAT EVEN THAT CONVERSATION IS VERY LIMITED. UH, SO I JUST, I JUST KIND OF, YOU KNOW, VERY RESPECTFULLY JUST, JUST SAY THAT AS WE WERE KIND OF, UH, ADVISED BY, UM, UH, THE, UH, I GUESS THE COUNCIL OF THE, OF THE O H P THAT WE'RE TO STAY AWAY FROM WORDS LIKE I LIKE, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK, UM, THAT THE SPECIFICITY THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF, UM, UM, WHAT COULD BE PERCEIVED AUTHORITY, BUT THE REALITY IS WE ALSO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO THE APPLICANT SO THAT THE APPLICANT LEAVES WITH A VERY CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE AGREEING TO BE. BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S KIND OF PART OF WHAT ENABLES US TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE CASES IN A, IN AN EFFICIENT AND IN A TIMELY MANNER. SO, I, I, I SAY THAT RESPECTFULLY, RIGHT? UM, THAT WHAT THE APPLICANT IS AGREEING TO IS INHERENT IN THE VOTE. THANK YOU. YES, MS. SAVINO? OH, THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD IS THAT'S WHY, THAT'S IN PART WHY I BELIEVE IN ANOTHER D R C SESSION WOULD BE HELPFUL TO DISCUSS THIS FURTHER AND WHAT THE OVERSIGHT IS RELATIVE TO, RELATIVE TO ACTUAL SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE GROUND. THANK YOU. SO WITH THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND A RECOMMENDATION TO THE APPLICANT TO, UH, ATTEND ANOTHER D R C TO, UH, DISCUSS MAYBE MORE SPECIFIC STRATEGIES TOWARDS ACHIEVING THOSE STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE FISH. AYE. SABINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRO AYE. ZER AYE. UNE, AYE. MISSED THE FIRST PART OF THE PRESENTATION, SO I'LL ABSTAIN. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. HAVE A GOOD DAY. OKAY. I'M BRINGING IN CESAR SOA AS OUR APPLICANT FOR ITEM THREE. CAAR, ARE YOU THERE? YOU MIGHT HAVE TO UNMUTE CESAR, ARE YOU THERE? OKAY, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU CESAR, UM, COMMISSIONERS. UM, I SUGGEST WE MIGHT MOVE TO THE NEXT ITEM WHILE WE TRY TO GET THAT APPLICANT ON THE LINE. OKAY. SO OUR AGENDA ITEM 14, ONE MOMENT, I'LL PULL UP [00:35:01] THOSE APPLICANTS. H D R C CASE NUMBER 2021. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, ITEM NUMBER [14. Address/Description: 503 URBAN LOOP HDRC Case No.: 2021344 Applicant: Conservation Society of San Antonio, Westside Preservation Alliance, Esperanza Peace and Justice Center Request: Request for review of historic significance City Council Dist.: 1] 14 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 3 3 4 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP, A REQUEST FOR REVIEW BY THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION REGARDING ELIGIBILITY OF THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION, A PROPERTY MUST MEET THREE OF 16 CRITERIA UNDER U D C SECTION 35 6 0 7 B. IN ORDER TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR LOCAL HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION, STAFF AGREES WITH THE APPLICANT THAT THE PROPERTY MEETS FIVE CRITERIA. THEREFORE, THEREFORE STAFF FINDS THAT THE PROPERTY IS ELIGIBLE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH H AND RECOMMENDS A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE TO THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION. COMMISSIONERS. I HAVE APPLICANTS ON THE LINE, UH, VINCE MICHAEL GRACIE SANCHEZ, AND, UH, ANTONIO CASTANEDA ARE HERE TO PRESENT. OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, REAL QUICKLY WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT FIRST. UM, AND THEN WE WILL INVITE THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE TO PROVIDE A PRESENTATION. UM, AND THEN WE HAVE SEVERAL VOICEMAILS FOR THIS CASE, AND WE'LL PLAY THOSE AFTER BOTH THE APPLICANT AND OWNER HAVE MADE THEIR PRESENTATIONS. MR. CHAIR, BEFORE YOU WE DO THAT, UH, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY THAT WE'RE NOT HEARING NUMBER THREE BECAUSE THE, THE APPLICANT WASN'T CONNECTED. SO WE'RE MOVING TO THE, WE'RE MOVING TO THE NEXT ONE AND WE'LL RETURN TO, WE'LL RETURN TO THE NUMBER THREE. THANK YOU, SIR. YES, SIR. SO VINCE, I BELIEVE YOU'RE GONNA LEAD THE PRESENTATION. YEAH. OKAY. GO RIGHT AHEAD. UH, THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY. I'M VINCENT MICHAEL OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. TOGETHER WITH THE WEST SIDE PRESERVATION ALLIANCE AT ESPERANZA PEACE AND JUSTICE CENTER, WE ARE PRESENTING THIS REQUEST FOR REVIEW OF SIGNIFICANCE 5 0 3. URBAN LOOP MEETS FIVE OF THE CRITERIA. IT MEETS CRITERIA ONE BECAUSE IT'S A RARE REMNANT OF LARE DITO. THE NEAR WEST SIDE MEXICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY CONSERVATION SOCIETY HELPED SAVE KA NAVARRO MORE THAN 60 YEARS AGO, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE ONLY OTHER SITES LEFT FROM THAT AREA. ITS SIGNIFICANCE INCLUDES BOTH ITS ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION IN 1883 AS A BROTHEL, AND ITS USE FOR OVER 100 YEARS BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AS AN ORPHANAGE AND CENTER FOR ABUSED AND NEGLECTED CHILDREN. FIRST BY THE CARMELITE SISTERS AND LATER BY BOYSTOWN. IT IS AN IMPORTANT EXAMPLE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S OUTREACH TO CHILDREN, THE POOR AND IMMIGRANTS ON THE WEST SIDE. THE THREE ADDITIONS TO THE VICTORIAN HOUSE BY THE CARMELITES GAVE IT THE OVERALL APPEARANCE IT RETAINS TODAY. THIS IS THE CITY'S ONLY LINK TO ITS RED LIGHT HISTORY AND ONE OF ONLY A HANDFUL RE DITO. THE BUILDING MEETS CRITERION THREE BECAUSE OF ASSOCIATION WITH FAMOUS PEOPLE. THESE INCLUDE THE MADAM FANNING PORTER, WHO WAS THERE FOR FIVE YEARS, FROM 1897 TO 1901, AND ALSO BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID WHO WERE THERE, WE KNOW IN 1901. THIS SIGNIFICANCE ALSO INCLUDES MOTHER MARY THERESA, AND MOTHER MARY FELICITAS, WHO FOUNDED THE CARMELITE SISTER'S ORPHANAGE THERE, AS WELL AS THE MIDWIFE RAMONA RAMOS. UH, IF I COULD SEE THE SLIDE ON PAGE 17, UH, THE BUILDING MEETS CRITERION SIX BECAUSE IT'S A RARE EXAMPLE OF AN ORPHANAGE OR INSTITUTIONAL HOUSING, AND IT USES SPANISH ECLECTIC DETAILS LIKE LOW PITCH ROOFS, UH, EXTENDED RAFTER TAILS, GABLE AND SHED ROOFS, STUCCO CLADDING. AND THE FAMOUS QUATRO FOIL WINDOW AT THE ENTRANCE [00:40:01] ARCHITECTURALLY IS LARGELY THE SAME AS IT WAS 72 YEARS AGO WHEN THE ARCHDIOCESE PHOTOGRAPHED THE BUILDING FOR THEIR DIAMOND JUBILEE PUBLICATION. THE MAJOR CHANGE BEING THE ONE STORY CHAPEL EDITION 60 YEARS AGO, AND SOME INSIGNIFICANT ADDITIONS ON THE REAR. IF I COULD GO TO PAGE 20, PLEASE. UH, THE BUILDING MEETS CRITERION SEVEN BECAUSE IT IS AN ESTABLISHED AND FAMILIAR VISUAL FEATURE. IT'S THE LAST HISTORIC BUILDING ON THE WEST SIDE OF SAN SABA, WHAT WAS SAN SABA STREET? THE RARE REMNANT, AS I SAID BEFORE, LARRY DETAIL, WHICH WAS MOSTLY DEMOLISHED BY URBAN RENEWAL AND HIGHWAY CONSTRUCTION IN THE 1950S AND SIXTIES, IF WE COULD. UH, SO THERE YOU SEE THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND THE ADDITIONS THAT ARE SIGNIFICANT. YOU COULD SEE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE SITE, UM, IT LIES OUTSIDE THE SIGNIFICANT, UM, ORIGINAL 1883 HOUSE IN 1931 AND 51 ADDITIONS. UH, IF WE COULD GO BACK TO PAGE 14, PLEASE, AND I'LL WRAP UP WITH DESCRIBING HOW IT MEETS CRITERION 11 BECAUSE IT HELPS TELL THE STORY OF THE ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, AND CULTURAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF LAUDE DITO TO THE CITY, INCLUDING ITS TIME AS PART OF A VERY LUCRATIVE RED LIGHT DISTRICT, BUT ALSO FOR THE YEARS MORE THAN A CENTURY INDEED, THAT IT SERVED THE NEEDS OF IMMIGRANTS, OTHER WORKING CLASS RESIDENTS, AND IT WORKED TO IMPROVE THEIR LIVES. OUTSIDE OF CASA NAVARRO, ALMOST NOTHING IS LEFT OF THIS IMPORTANT INNER CITY COMMUNITY. UH, WITH THAT SAID, IN THREE AND A HALF MINUTES EXPIRED, I'LL HAPPILY TURN IT OVER TO MY CO-PRESENTERS, UH, DR. ANTONIA CASTANEDA AND AZI SANCHEZ OF ESP AND ANTONIO AND GRACIELA. YOU'LL NEED TO UNMUTE. YOU'RE BOTH STILL MUTED. OKAY, WE HEAR YOU. WE HEAR YOU NOW YOU CAN HEAR ME. CAN YOU STILL HEAR ME? YES. YES, YES. OKAY, GOOD. THANK YOU. UH, THANK YOU. I AM ANTONIO CASTANEDA REPRESENTING THE WEST SIDE PRESERVATION ALLIANCE, W P A, A COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION THAT ADVOCATES FOR THE RECOGNITION AND PRESERVATION OF THE HISTORY, CULTURE, AND STRUCTURES OF THE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE IN COMMUNITIES OF SAN ANTONIO IN GENERAL, BUT MOST SPECIFICALLY OF THE MEXICAN, UH, MEXICAN AMERICAN, UH, COMMUNITIES OF THE WEST SIDE. UH, TODAY I FOCUS ON LANGUAGE AND THE ECONOMIC IMPORTANCE OF SEXUAL LABOR PERFORMED BY WORKING CLASS MEXICAN AMERICAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN WHO WORKED IN THE SEX INDUSTRY IN SAN ANTONIO. UH, AND THEY WORKED AT 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. UH, INDEED, THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN WHO LABORED AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY IT GENERATED FOR THE CITY'S ECONOMY ESTABLISHES THIS WORK AS AN INDUSTRY. WHILE SEX WORKERS ARE NOT CONSIDERED AS A SECTOR OF INDUSTRIAL LABOR, THEY ARE, HOWEVER, LABELED AS WORKING IN THE QUOTE UNQUOTE VICE INDUSTRY. SO AN INDUSTRY NEVERTHELESS, UM, THE LINGUIST FERDINAND SER ARGUES THAT LANGUAGE CONSTITUTES OUR WORLD. IT DOESN'T JUST RECORD OR LABEL IT, UNQUOTE. LANGUAGE IS FLUID AND MALLEABLE. IT DRIVES SOCIAL ATTITUDES RATHER THAN SIMPLY EXPRESSING THEM. UM, PER THE, UH, SAN ANTONIO CONSERVATION SOCIETY'S, UM, UTE, UM, REQUEST THE GROWTH OF SAN ANTONIO, DRIVEN BY RAILROADS AND PRESENCE OF MILITARY BASES CREATED SIGNIFICANT CONSUMER DEMAND FOR SEX WORK. THE OWNERS OF HOMES AND OTHER ENTITIES WHERE THE WOMEN WORKED AS WELL AS THE CITY GOVERNMENT FOUNDED ECONOMICALLY ADVANTAGEOUS FOR QUOTE VICE BUSINESSES TO LOCATE IN A SINGLE AREA ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF DOWNTOWN. IN DOING SO, SAN ANTONIO'S QUOTE UNQUOTE RED LIGHT DISTRICT, RED LIGHT DISTRICT FOLLOWED A DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, UH, COMMON TO OTHER LARGE CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES. UM, OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS OFFERING GAMBLING, DANCING AND VAUDEVILLE THEATER THRIVED IN PROXIMITY TO LA'S, UM, BROTHELS, QUOTE UNQUOTE, THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATIONS RESEARCH STATES THAT BY 1911, SAN ANTONIO'S QUOTE UNQUOTE SPORTING DISTRICT WAS SECOND ONLY TO THE ALAMO AS A TOURIST ATTRACTION. TWO YEARS BEFORE THE HOUSE AT 5 0 3 SOUTH SAN SABA CLOSED, THE DISTRICT DELIVERED THE EQUIVALENT ABOUT ONE POINT 36 MILLION ADJUSTED TO 20 $20 TO THE CITY GOVERNMENT IN JUST LICENSING FEES. SO I THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME BEFORE [00:45:01] YOU TODAY AND TO PRESENT LANGUAGE THAT EXPANDS AND RE CONCEPTUALIZES OUR THINKING ABOUT THE HISTORICAL IMPORTANCE OF 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. I URGE YOU, PLEASE, TO REVIEW THE STRUCTURE AND PLACE OF LABOR FOR HUNDREDS, PROBABLY THOUSANDS OF WORKING CLASS WOMEN IN LATO, WHERE REMAINS, UH, ALMOST THE LAST BUILDING OF THIS WORKING CLASS BARRIO. ACTUALLY ONLY ONE OF TWO. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANKS ANNE ANTONIO. THANKS. UM, UM, I'M HEARING AN ECHO. DO YOU, I'M HEARING AN ECHO. DO YOU KNOW WHY WE MAY HAVE TO MUTE THE OTHER SPEAKER, HEAR THE OTHER SPEAKERS. OKAY. OKAY. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? OKAY, GO RIGHT AHEAD. THANK YOU. UH, MY NAME IS GARCIA LOS SANCHEZ AND I'M HERE REPRESENTING, UH, THE ESPERANZA PEACE AND JUSTICE CENTER, THE HISTORIC WEST SIDE RESIDENCE ASSOCIATION. I'M ALSO, UH, ESP ESPANZA IS ALSO A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE WEST SIDE PRESERVATION ALLIANCE. AND WE ARE, UH, EXCITED TO BE IN COLLABORATION WITH THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY AND TRYING TO, UH, ASK FOR YOUR SUPPORT IN DESIGNATING THIS BUILDING AS HISTORIC. UH, MY FOCUS IS MORE ABOUT THE PEOPLE AROUND THAT AREA. UM, WE'VE HEARD ALREADY A FEW NAMES, UM, AND I IMPORTANT INDIVIDUALS THAT, UH, COMMEMORATED BY THIS BUILDING AS WELL AS LATO. UH, ONE OF THE PEOPLE I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT WAS, UH, IS RAMONA RIOS DE RAMOS, WHO WAS BORN IN 1881 AND LIVED TILL 19 69, 88 YEARS. SHE WAS ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN MIDWIVES, OR AS WE CALL THEM, RA IN THE WEST SIDE. ANA DELIVERED BETWEEN 11 AND 15,000 BABIES DURING HER CAREER. THE MATERNITY HOME THAT SHE OPERATED LA CA AT THREE 15 MATMOS WAS A COUPLE OF BLOCKS FROM 5 0 3 SAN SAVA, AS WE ALL NOW CALL IT URBAN LOOP. UH, LA PROVIDED A REFUGE FOR SINGLE MOTHERS AND THEIR NEWBORN BABIES IN FRONT WAS A SHINGLE THAT READ MIDWIFE TRONA. THE HOUSE HAD 20 ROOMS UPSTAIRS AND 20 DOWNSTAIRS. MOST OF ROMAN'S CLIENTS WERE POOR AND WORKING CLASS MEXICANAS AND ROMANA WAS KNOWN FOR HER GENEROSITY TO HER COMMUNITY. SHE WOULD WAIVE THE FEE FOR FAMILIES WHO COULDN'T AFFORD HER SERVICES. SHE WOULD ALSO MAKE MANY TRIPS TO NEIGHBORHOODS IN AREA TOWNS, DELIVERING CLOTHING AND OTHER GOODS. HER GRANDDAUGHTERS, WHO I WAS LUCKY TO MEET, ALMA AND JOSIE ALSO REMEMBER THAT SHE ALSO MADE AN ANNUAL TRIP TO MONTEREY WITH CLOTHING FOR FAMILIES IN NEED. OMANA WAS KNOWN FOR NEVER LOSING A MOTHER OR A BABY AND WOULD EVEN BE CALLED TO DELIVER TWINS ONCE SHE DELIVERED A SET OF TRIPLETS TO LORENZO AND HERA FAVELA A CASE WHICH WAS REPORTED IN ZA ON NOVEMBER 13TH, 1928. ROMANA CONTINUED HER PRACTICE UNTIL EIGHT YEARS BEFORE HER DEATH IN 1961. LIKE MANY , SHE ENGAGED IN OTHER KINDS OF WORK AS WELL. IN 19 20 13, SHE TRAVELED WITH HER DAUGHTERS TO CHINA AND SPENT THREE MONTHS THERE LEARNING HOW TO BECOME A SKILLED SEAMSTRESS. SHE ALSO RAN A RESTAURANT GROCERY STORE AND MANAGED A BUSINESS MAKING CLAY FIGURES TO SELL FOR THE CITY'S DOWNTOWN CARNIVALS. FOR SOME TIME, SHE MANAGED A TAXI BUSINESS AS WELL, OF COURSE, TO TRANSPORT THE WOMEN BACK AND FORTH. UNLIKE MANY WOMEN OF THEIR TIME, ROMANA REGULARLY DROVE HER MODEL T TRAVELING AROUND THE SAN ANTONIO AREA AND MAKING REGULAR TRIPS TO CHICAGO AND MONTEREY. WHILE ROMANO'S FORMAL EDUCATION IS UNKNOWN, SHE READ AND WROTE IN BOTH SPANISH AND ENGLISH AS EVIDENCED BY THE BIRTH REGISTER SHE KEPT. ANOTHER IMPORTANT FIGURE THAT WAS ALSO MENTIONED IS, UH, RELATED TO, RELATED TO 5 0 3 SAN SAVA WAS THE REVEREND JOHN WILLIAM SHAW, UH, FROM 1863 TO 1941, WHO 34, WHO WAS APPOINTED AS THE FOURTH ARCHBISHOP OF THE DIOCESE SAN ANTONIO ON MARCH 11TH, 1911. IT WAS A TURBULENT TIME SOUTH OF THE BORDER. OPPOSITION TO THE GOVERNMENT OF RIO DIAZ WAS ALREADY BREWING. AND JUST TWO MONTHS LATER, THE POPULOUS POLITICIAN, FRANCISCO MADERA, EXECUTED A MILITARY COUP AGAINST DSS AND REPLACED HIM AS PRESIDENT OF MEXICO. IF WE ALL KNOW SAN ANTONIO HISTORY, YOU ALSO KNOW THAT HE WAS EXILED HERE. AND, UM, SO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND WAVES OF CATHOLICS WOULD BE COMING UP TO FLEECE, UH, TO SOUTH TEXAS SEEKING REFUGE FROM THE STATE ACTION REPRESSION AND PERSECUTION. IMMEDIATELY AFTER HIS APPOINTMENT, BISHOP BISHOP SHAW BOARDED A COVERED WAGON AND SET OUT TO VISIT THE ENTIRETY OF HIS SPRAWLING DIOCESE, WHICH AT THAT TIME EXTENDED FROM BROWNSVILLE TO EL PASO. THIS AMA AMAZING MAN WHO LATER ON FOUNDED THE DIOCESE FIRST SEMINARY RESTORED AND RENOVATED THE SPANISH MISSION AND [00:50:01] CREATED A PARISH COMMUNITY FOR SPANISH SPEAKING CATHOLICS ON THE WEST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO NAMED OUR LADY OF THE GUADALUPE CHURCH. HE SAW THE NEED TO HELP CARE FOR CHILDREN IN THE WEST SIDE RIOS, AND PURCHASED THE HOUSE AT 5 0 3 SAN SABA IN 1913 AND PAID FOR ITS RENOVATIONS. AND HE INVITED THE CARITE SISTERS OF DIVINE HEART OF JESUS TO MAKE THE HOUSE IN LATO INTO A HOME FOR ORPHANS AND A DAY NURSERY FOR THE CHILDREN OF THE WORKING POOR REVEREND MOTHER TERESA, UH, AND THE MARY, MOTHER MARY FELICITAS TOOK CHARGE OF THE SAN SABA HOME IN 1914. AND THERE'S SO MUCH RESEARCH THAT WE HAVE TO DO ABOUT ALL THESE AMAZING PEOPLE. I WANTED TO JUST FINISH UP BY AGAIN STRESSING WHAT OTHERS HAVE ALSO SAID ABOUT LATO. AND I THINK I REMEMBER HEARING THIS BACK IN APRIL OR MAY FROM, UH, GABRIEL VELASQUEZ, UM, WHO RECOGNIZED THE IMPORTANCE OF LATO. UM, THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS A CONNECTION TO MOST MEXICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES WHO HAVE BEEN LIVING IN SAN ANTONIO FOR GENERATIONS. MY OWN GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, TERESA CAN ROCHA LIVED ON LATO ON LAREDO STREET ITSELF, UH, FROM THE 1890S TO 1921, AND WHICH, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE FLOOD FORCED HER, UH, TO MOVE A MILE WEST. SHE, SHE LIKED ROMANA RAMOS WAS ONE OF, WELL, WAS A BUSINESS WOMAN. IN MY GRAND GREAT-GRANDMOTHER'S CASE, SHE WAS ONE OF SAN ANTONIO'S QUEENS AND A SERIOUS BUSINESSWOMAN. LATO HAD MOVIE THEATERS, OUTDOOR AND INDOOR RESTAURANTS, DITAS, RELIGIOUS SANCTUARIES, RESIDENTIAL HOMES, HOMES MADE IN ADOBE SINGLE STORY AND TWO STORY PROPERTIES, THE POOR, THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND WEALTHY CO-MINGLED AND CREATED A THRIVING COMMUNITY. SADLY, AUTHORS WHO VENT LAMENT THAT QUOTE, MOST OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURES OF THE OF LA NO LONGER THERE, LITTLE HAS BEEN LEFT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO LEARN IMPORTANT FACTS. AND IN THE ROOTS OF THEIR HERITAGE AND HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OF SAN ANTONIO URBAN RENEWAL OF THE 1950S, AND AGAIN IN THE 1970S, DEMOLISHED MOST OF THESE PRECIOUS BUILDINGS. LATO ALREADY SEVERELY ERASED, IS NOW THREATENED WITH FURTHER ERASURE. THE ESPERANZA W P A, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, AND THOUSANDS OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHOSE FAMILIES MADE THEIR LIVES GENERATIONS AGO HOPED THAT YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS BUILDING AND THIS COMMUNITY, AND DECLARE THIS BUILDING HISTORIC AND PRESERVE THE IMPORTANT HISTORY FOR THE MEXICAN, MEXICAN AMERICAN AND OVERALL SAN ANTONIO AND US COMMUNITY. OTHERWISE, WE WILL CONTINUE TO FURTHER DEPRIVE THE WORKING CLASS WEST SIDE, THE SAN ANTONIO, AND A CRI OF A CRITICAL PART OF OUR HISTORY. CIA, UM, IS THE APPLICANT CLOSING ITS PRESENTATION? OKAY, SO WE'LL HAVE THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE UP. YEAH, WE'VE ALL HAD A CHANCE TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. HOW ABOUT NOW? THERE WE GO. HELLO, EVERYBODY. UM, JAMES MCKNIGHT, 1 1 2 EAST PECAN, UH, REPRESENTING THE O OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. UM, JUST WANNA SAY IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I'VE BEEN STANDING UP HERE. IT'S GOOD TO SEE EVERYBODY AGAIN, . UM, SO I KNOW A LOT HAS BEEN, UH, PRESENTED ABOUT THE, THE HISTORY OF THE SITE. UM, IT'S ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO BE IN THIS POSITION TO TO TALK ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO DESIGNATE HISTORIC. OBVIOUSLY THE OWNER DOES NOT WANT TO DESIGNATE THIS HISTORIC, SO I'M HERE TO TALK ABOUT WHY WE FEEL THAT IT DOESN'T MEET THOSE CRITERIA. AND, UM, AND I'VE GOT A SLIDESHOW IF YOU, SINCE I DON'T HAVE THE KEYBOARD, IF YOU CAN JUST, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO JUST, LET'S PAUSE ONE MOMENT. I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT OUR REMOTE COMMISSIONERS CAN SEE THE, THE SIDE THAT SAYS 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY CAN. CURTIS, CAN YOU CONFIRM? I CANNOT SEE THAT SIDE. YEAH. UM, OH, THERE WE GO. NOW, NOW I CAN SEE THAT SIDE. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. GO AHEAD. OKAY, SECOND SLIDE PLEASE. SORRY, WE'RE TRYING TO GET THE TIMER. OH, THAT'S ALRIGHT. I DON'T NEED A TIMER, THAT'S ALL. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO IT'S JUST A, UM, OVERALL CONTEXT OF THE SITE. UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO THE, THE PURPOSE OF MY PRESENTATION IS, YOU KNOW, DOES IT MERIT PRESERVATION? SO NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. AND WE KNOW [00:55:01] THAT, UM, BUILDINGS BY AND LARGE ARE IMPERMANENT. HOWEVER, SOME DESERVE PROTECTION. SO FOR THAT, THE STANDARD HAS TO BE HIGH. IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THE CRITERIA IN THE 16, YOU SEE THE WORDS SIGNIFICANT, UH, SINGULAR, DISTINCTIVE, EXEMPLARY. THOSE ARE THE WORDS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A BUILDING, UM, IDENTIFIES THOSE QUALITIES FOR EACH ONE OF THE, THE STANDARDS THAT HAVE TO BE MET. SO I'M GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT IS IT ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANT? AND I WENT TO THE NATIONAL REGISTER BULLETIN JUST TO GET A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT ABOUT WHAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS. IT MUST REPRESENT A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE HISTORY ARCHITECTURE, ARCHEOLOGY, ENGINEERING CULTURE OF AN AREA. AND IT MUST HAVE THE CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAKE IT A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF PROPERTIES ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ASPECT OF THE PAST. SO ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'LL, YOU'LL NOT HEAR FROM ME TODAY IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS ASSOCIATED WITH CERTAIN FAMOUS PEOPLE. UM, THERE'S ENOUGH HISTORICAL CONTEXT TO SAY THAT YES, THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE KNOWN THAT WERE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT BUILDING AND WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE, UM, FIGHTING THAT CONDITION OR STANDARD. UM, WHETHER OR NOT THIS WAS PART OF THE, THE SEX WORK THAT WAS BEING PERFORMED IN THIS AREA WAS IMPORTANT TO THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF SAN ANTONIO. WE'RE NOT GONNA ARGUE THAT EITHER. OF COURSE, IT WAS, WE KNOW THAT THROUGH, UH, CITY COUNCIL MINUTES AND ORDINANCES THAT WERE PASSED AT THAT TIME AND NEWS STORIES. AND OF COURSE THE, THE PEOPLE THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THAT HAVE BEEN THROUGH THAT AREA, THE, UH, CARAMEL LIGHT NUNS WHO ESTABLISHED THE ORPHANAGE THERE, WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE CULTURE, OF COURSE IT WAS, MY ARGUMENTS ARE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THOSE THINGS TO WARRANT PRESERVATION. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO I'M GOING TO THE CITY'S FINDINGS ONTO THE NEXT SLIDE. FOR CRITERIA ONE, IT'S VALUE OF VISIBLE OR ARCHEOLOGICAL REMINDER OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF THE COMMUNITY OR NATIONAL EVENT. SO THE CLAIM IS THAT IT'S A RARE VISIBLE REMINDER THAT THE VICE ENTERTAINMENT PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT ROLE. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT ARGUING THAT THE, THAT VICE AND THE VICE DISTRICT, UM, DIDN'T PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE. IT'S WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A RARE VISIBLE REMINDER OF THAT THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE THAT HAD THE, THE BROTHEL IN IT IS ACTUALLY CONCEALED BY THE REST OF THE BUILDINGS AND HAS BEEN, UH, LARGELY TAKEN APART. UM, AND SO WE WOULD ARGUE IT IS NOT A, A VISUAL REMINDER OF THAT AREA. YOU CAN'T, YOU DON'T DRIVE DOWN THAT STREET AND HAVE A REMINDER OF THE BROTHEL THAT WAS THERE, AND IT DOES NOT GIVE A SIGNIFICANT OR IMPORTANT REMINDER OF THE SPORTING DISTRICT. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SOME OF THE IDEAS THAT WERE, THAT BROUGHT UP THROUGH THE DISCUSSION OF THE BUILDING WERE, THAT WAS, UH, DESIGNED OR BUILT THROUGH SOME SPANISH REVIVAL. SO I JUST LOOKED AT SOME OF THE, UH, DETAILS FOR SPANISH REVIVAL, THE WINDOW TREATMENTS, DOOR TREATMENTS, THE ROOF AND CHIMNEY TREATMENTS, UM, OTHER BALCONY, UH, ELABORATIONS ON THE BUILDING. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. AND YOU CAN SEE THESE ARE EXAMPLES, UM, IN SAN ANTONIO THAT ARE PART OF THE SAN ANTONIO REGISTRY FOR HOUSES THAT EXEMPLIFY THIS KIND OF ARCHITECTURE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. YOU CAN SEE THE BALCONIES, THE, THE DOOR TREATMENTS, THE ROOF, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE TYPICAL EXAMPLES OF THAT SPANISH REVIVAL OR MISSION REVIVAL. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. WHEREAS OUR BUILDING HAS ESSENTIALLY NONE OF THOSE. THE ONLY THING YOU'LL SEE IS IN THE BACK ON THE, THE SLIDE ON THE RIGHT THERE IS AN OCTAGON WINDOW. IT'S THE SINGLE ONE THERE, AND THERE'S A SINGLE ONE ON THE BACK THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED, UM, PART OF THAT SPANISH REVIVAL. OTHERWISE, THERE ARE NO ARTICULATIONS. UM, I'M REMINISCENT OF THIS MISSION STYLE. THE, THERE IS ONE QUATRO FOIL WINDOW TOWARDS THE NORTHEAST OF THE BUILDING. HOWEVER, THAT IS ACTUALLY, UM, AS OUR ARCHITECT'S SHOWN, WASN'T PART OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. THAT WAS A METAL WINDOW THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE LATER. IT'S ACTUALLY KNOWN TO BE PART OF A LATER, UM, STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE, NOT THE MISSION STYLE AT THAT TIME. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THESE ARE JUST OTHER, UM, PHOTOS OF THAT BUILDING. YOU CAN SEE THE QUATTRO FOIL WINDOW ON THE NORTHEAST, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S NO ARTICULATION, THERE'S NONE OF THAT ROOF RAFTERS. WE DON'T HAVE THE, THE ROOF TREATMENTS, DOOR TREATMENTS, WINDOW, NONE OF THAT. UM, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. PARTICULARLY, YOU CAN SELL. THIS IS THE STRUCTURE ITSELF. THIS IS THE BROTHEL STRUCTURE THAT WAS KIND OF AT THE HEART OF THE DESIGNATION AND OUR ARCHITECT HAD PUT TOGETHER THE THREE D MODEL SHOWING ALL THE PIECES THAT HAD BEEN TAKEN APART. NOW, YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY SEE IT LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT'S COVERED BY THE, THE THREE ADDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND IT, BUT HE STILL TRIED TO GET AT THE HEART OF WHAT WAS WAS THERE AND WHAT HAS BEEN TAKEN APART. AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT THAT IS, UM, I'M SORRY, THE THIRD, UM, ITERATION ON BOTH OF THOSE, WHAT'S LEFT OF THE BUILDING. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THAT IS JUST ANOTHER, THESE ARE OTHER VIEWS. SO ALL FOUR SIDES OF THE, THAT ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. AS PART OF CRITERIA ONE, THERE WAS ALSO A CLAIM THAT IT'S AN IMPORTANT EXAMPLE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S OUTREACH TO THE CHILDREN, POOR AND IMMIGRANTS ON THE WEST SIDE. AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, WE'RE NOT ARGUING [01:00:01] THAT IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT THIS BUILDING DID. HOWEVER, IS THIS AN IMPORTANT EXAMPLE? SO THERE ARE VERY MANY EXAMPLES OF THE CHURCH'S OUTREACH AND ITS PRESENCE IN THE COMMUNITY THAT IS FAR GREATER OR FAR MORE SIGNIFICANT OR IMPORTANT THAN THE THIS ONE STORY AND SOME SOME TWO STORY STRUCTURE OF 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. AND IT'S HARD TO SEE ON THIS, BUT I JUST, YOU KNOW, GOOGLED CATHOLIC CHURCH TO SEE HOW MANY ARE WITHIN A ONE MILE AREA. AND YOU HAVE, UM, FIVE THAT ARE JUST RIGHT AROUND US, INCLUDING THE ONE ACROSS THE STREET THAT WAS, UM, THE, THE CHURCH ACROSS THE STREET WAS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES. AND THEN WE, OUR ARCHITECTURAL OF ARCHITECTURE STYLE AND THE, THE HEIGHTS AND THE USES ARE IN NO WAY TIED EVEN TO THE CHURCH, ACROSS THE STREET OR ANY OF THE OTHER, UM, CHURCHES AND ORPHANAGES THAT YOU CAN SEE IN SAN ANTONIO. SO WE'RE, MY ARGUMENT IS JUST THAT IT IS NOT A SIGNIFICANT EXAMPLE OF THAT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. NEXT CRITERIA CRITERIA SIX. IT'S HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURAL CULTURAL CHARACTER AS A PARTICULARLY FINE, UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF UTILITY UTILITARIAN STRUCTURE, UM, LIKE A COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE. SO AGAIN, THE WORDS THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE PARTICULARLY FINE OR UNIQUE EXAMPLE. AND WE'LL LOOK AT THE CONSTRUCTION, THE COMMERCIAL STRUCTURE. THE CLAIM IS, IT'S A SURVIVING EXAMPLE OF AN ORPHANAGE IN RETO. YES, IT IS. HOWEVER, IT'S NOT A PARTICULARLY FINE OR UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF SUCH, AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, THAT HIGH STANDARD THAT WE'RE TRYING TO MEET AND WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE PRESERVED. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. CRITERIA SEVEN UNIQUE LOCATION OR SINGULAR PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAKE IT AN ESTABLISHED OR FAMILIAR VISUAL FEATURE. THE CLAIM IS THAT ALMOST NOTHING REMAINS OF THE LATO NEIGHBORHOOD IN SAN ANTONIO. AGAIN, IS THIS A UNIQUE OR SINGULAR CHARACTERISTIC BUILDING THAT SHOULD BE PRESERVED THERE? THERE'S NOTHING PARTICULARLY UNIQUE ABOUT THIS CONTEXT. SO REALLY I THINK WHAT WE'RE GETTING TO IT THERE IS, IS THE, THE, THE CITY'S CLAIM THAT THERE'S NOTHING ELSE LEFT. AND SO NOW IT'S SINGULAR UNIQUE BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE HAS BEEN DEMOLISHED. NOW THAT COULD, THAT DOES PROVIDE IT A SENSE OF UNIQUENESS BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE HAS LEFT. HOWEVER, THERE STILL HAS TO BE SOMETHING UNIQUE OR SINGULAR ABOUT THAT PROPERTY, NOT JUST THE FACT THAT IT'S THE ONLY ONE REMAINING. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. SO I JUST HAD SOME, SOME SLIDES FROM SOME REPORTS PULLED ON THE LA DITO AREA BECAUSE, UH, I AM NOT AS FAMILIAR, I'M SURE AS, UH, MS. SANCHEZ AND, AND HER GROUP IS. BUT, UM, ONE THING THAT I NOTED FROM THE, THE RESEARCH THAT I HAVE DONE IS THAT YOU SEE A LOT OF ONE STORY. YOU SEE A LOT OF ONE STORY, YOU SEE A LOT OF STEEPER ROOFS, SOME SINGLE FAMILY, SOME COMMERCIAL, BUT IT WAS ALL THIS SMALLER STRUCTURES WITH A VERY DIFFERENT STYLE AND A VERY DIFFERENT FEEL THAN WHAT WE'RE, WHAT YOU'RE SEEING FOR THE ORPHANAGE AT 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. THESE ARE MORE EXAMPLES FROM THIS SAME REPORT, JUST SHOWING HOW THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE HAVE FOR OUR STRUCTURE. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. LAST CRITERIA, CRITERIA 11, DISTINCTIVE IN CHARACTER, INTEREST OR VALUE STRONGLY EXEMPLIFIES THE CULTURAL, ECONOMIC, SOCIAL ETHIC OR HISTORICAL HERITAGE OF SAN ANTONIO. SO THE CLAIM IS THAT IT RELATES TO THE SOCIO-CULTURAL AND ECONOMIC ACTIVITIES OF THE WORKING CLASS LABOR. IT DOES RELATE TO THAT. IT WAS PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S CULTURAL AND HISTORICAL HERITAGE, BUT IT'S NOT DISTINCTIVE AND IT DOESN'T EXEMPLIFY THAT HERITAGE. THE SPORTING DISTRICT, ONE OF THE REPORTS THAT WE FOUND ACTUALLY TRIED TO LAY OUT A AN AREA OF THE SPORTING DISTRICT AND UM, AS IT POINTED OUT IN THE STORY, WE ARE NOT IN IT, WE'RE NEAR IT, BUT WE WEREN'T PART OF IT. UM, YOU CAN ALSO SAY, WELL, THE SPORTING DISTRICT WASN'T A PARTICULARLY DEFINED AREA OR THE RED LIGHT DISTRICT, WHICH AGAIN, HAS KIND OF THE SAME EFFECT IN MY MIND IS THAT THERE'S NOTHING DISTINCTIVE ABOUT IT. IT WAS A GENERAL AREA THAT PEOPLE SAID THAT IS THE VICE DISTRICT, THAT IS THE SPORTING DISTRICT, BUT IT'S NOT PARTICULARLY DEFINED. AND IF IT'S NOT PARTICULARLY DEFINED, THEN HOW CAN WE SAY THAT IT'S TIED TO IT AS CLOSELY AS NEED TO BE FOR PRESERVATION? UM, THERE ACTUALLY WAS, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT WAS DISCUSSED, IT WAS AN ORDINANCE IN 1889, UH, TALKING ABOUT, UM, PROSTITUTION AND THE VICE DISTRICT, BUT IT WAS ABOUT LICENSING NOT THE LOCATION OF THE AREA. SO LOCATION WASN'T THE BIG PART OF THIS THAT WAS ACTUALLY REPEALED AFTER ONE OF THE, THE WOMEN WHO WAS PROSECUTED UNDER THIS HAD A WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS, WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE, THE APPEALS COURT. THEY SAID, YOU'RE RIGHT, THE, YOU WERE NOT ALLOWED TO LICENSE IT. THEY HAD TO GO TO THE STATE TO GET LICENSED AND COME BACK AND WRITE A NEW ORDINANCE ABOUT IT. BUT IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT LICENSING. IT WAS ABOUT ALLOWING IT, IT WASN'T ABOUT AN AREA, A DEFINED CLEAR AREA ONLY THAT THEY SAID THE DOWNTOWN AREA. SO WITHOUT THAT KIND OF CONTEXT, HOW CAN WE SAY THAT THIS BUILDING, WHICH AGAIN THE BROTHEL IS COVERED UP BY THE OTHER THREE ADDITIONS, [01:05:01] IS PARTICULARLY UNIQUE OR SPEAKS TO THAT CULTURAL HERITAGE? IT'S, IT'S THERE, IT WAS PART OF IT, BUT IT'S NOT UNIQUE, DISTINCTIVE, OR IN ANY WAY TIED TO THAT CONTEXT. LAST SLIDE PLEASE. SO AGAIN, I'LL JUST WRAP IT UP BY SAYING DOES IT PROTECTION. SO I WOULD SAY IT HASN'T BEEN SHOWN BY THE STAFF REPORT THAT IT'S SIGNIFICANT, UNIQUE, SINGULAR, DISTINCTIVE, OR STRONGLY EXEMPLIFYING CULTURAL, HISTORIC, HISTORICAL OR ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTERISTICS REQUIRED FOR THAT KIND OF PRESERVATION. SO WITH THAT, I WILL ASK AGAIN THAT YOU DO NOT DESIGNATE THIS HISTORIC. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, NEXT WILL HEAR ARE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WERE LEFT BY VOICEMAIL AND THEN THE APPLICANT WILL GET A CHANCE FOR REBUTTAL. YES. MY NAME IS WILLIAM R. FRANKS AT 1310 RICH LAWN DRIVE. UH, I AM CALLING TO SUPPORT THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION FOR 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. UH, IT'S A, IT INCLUDES A SPANISH ECLECTIC, UH, STYLE BUILDING THERE, UH, DATING BACK TO THE 1880S. UM, IT, UH, IT SHOULD BE DECLARED A HISTORIC LANDMARK. I THINK IT IS A HISTORIC LANDMARK AND I'M AGAINST THE DEMOLITION PERMIT. UH, I AM A DEVELOPER MYSELF, SO I DO UNDERSTAND BUILDING DEVELOPMENT PERMITS, DEMOLITION AND HISTORIC RENOVATION. SO I AM IN FAVOR OF A DESIGNATION OF HISTORICAL LANDMARK. I AM AGAINST DEMOLITION. UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MY NUMBER, HELLO, MY NAME IS JEFF DEVONS AND I JUST RECENTLY MOVED TO SAN MARCOS AFTER LIVING IN SAN ANTONIO FOR 35 YEARS. I STILL READ THE EXPRESS NEWS, UH, DIGITAL EDITION. AND TODAY I'M DISMAYED TO FIND, UH, OUT THAT YOU'RE CONSIDERING GIVING, UH, LANDMARK DESIGNATION TO A, UM, RUNDOWN BUILDING THAT USED TO BE A WHOREHOUSE, EXCUSE ME, A BRAVO THAT, UH, IS FURTHER INFAMOUS FOR HAVING ENTERTAINED A GANG OF OUTLAWS. WHY YOU'D WANT TO GIVE A, UH, COVETED DESIGNATION TO SUCH A, UM, UH, SITE IS BEYOND ME WHEN YOU COULD, UM, EMPLOY LOTS OF PEOPLE AND GET NEW TAX REVENUE FROM PUTTING UP A RESIDENTIAL TOWER. SO, UM, IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO FALL FURTHER IN THE, IN THE DUST BEHIND AUSTIN, WHICH IS BECOMING AN EXTREMELY MODERN, BEAUTIFUL CITY AND YOU WANT TO JUST, UH, GIVE HISTORIC DESIGNATIONS TO RUBBLE, ILL REPUTE, BUT BY ALL MEANS DO SO. BUT I'M THOROUGHLY AGAINST IT AND THINK IT'S, UM, KIND OF THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I'VE GOTTA SAY ABOUT THAT. AND HAVE A GREAT DAY. SUSAN BEVIN 1 9 8 0 7 SCENIC LOOP ROAD. HE LOTUS, TEXAS 7 8 0 2 3. AGENDA, ITEM NUMBER 25 0 3 URBAN LOOP. THIS PROPERTY IS DESERVING OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION, THE URBAN LOOPS CONNECTION TO THE CARMELITE SISTERS, FANNIE PORTER, AND SEVERAL OF HER FAMOUS CLIENTS SUCH AS THE WILD BUNCH BEING LOCATED IN LA DITO, AS WELL AS ITS CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, SHIRLEY DEMONSTRATES THAT IT MEETS NUMEROUS OF THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION CRITERIA. I CERTAINLY SUPPORT THIS DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS MICHAEL DOWD AND MY ADDRESS IS 4 2 6 3 GRAYSTONE DRIVE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 3 3 6 9 3 3. AND I'M CALLING TO VOICE MY SUPPORT OF KEEPING THIS SITE HISTORICAL, I THINK IT SHOULD BE DECLARED A, A NATIONAL LANDMARK OR A LANDMARK OF HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE RAISED FOR THIS DEVELOPER CARD AND COMPANY ARCHITECTS. I AM AGAINST CARD AND COMPANY ARCHITECTS, UH, GETTING THE RIGHTS TO IT, BUYING IT OUT TO RAISE IT. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE, UM, LOCAL PRESERVATION ALLIANCE, THE WEST SIDE PRESERVATION ALLIANCE, BE ALLOWED TO HAVE THE CONSERVATION [01:10:01] SOCIETY SERIOUSLY CONSIDERATE FOR AND AN HISTORICAL LANDMARK DESIGNATION. YOU CAN CALL ME BACK AT TWO ONE ZERO FOUR NINE ZERO EIGHT SEVEN TWO SEVEN TWO ONE ZERO FOUR NINE ZERO EIGHT. HELLO? OH, THIS IS NANCY DRES. MY ADDRESS IS 1 5 3 0 3 PEBBLE SOUND, SAN ANTONIO 7 8 2 3 2. MY CALLING WITH REGARD TO ITEM NUMBER 20, THE 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP, WHICH IS WORTHY, MOST WORTHY OF PRESERVATION AND SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED FOR ITS SIGNIFICANCE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR WORK. GOODBYE. MY NAME IS TIM DRES. MY ADDRESS IS 1 5 3 0 3 PEBBLE SOUND IN SAN ANTONIO, 7 8 2 3 2. AND I'M CALLING TODAY ABOUT, UH, ITEM NUMBER 20 ON THE AGENDA AT 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. IT'S AN IMPORTANT HISTORIC PROPERTY, AND I ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO APPROVE HISTORIC PRESERVATION STATUS FOR THAT. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS FREDERICA KUSHNER. I LIVE AT 4 0 5 EAST MYRTLE STREET, 7 8 2 1 2. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT ITEM NUMBER 25 0 3 3 URBAN LOOP. THIS PARTICULAR, THIS PARTICULAR, UM, COMPLEX, UH, DESERVES HISTORY STANDING FOR, UH, AT LEAST TWO VERY OPPOSITE REASONS THAT I'M NOT GONNA GO INTO RIGHT NOW. HOWEVER, UH, I THINK YOU'RE VERY WELL AWARE OF THEM, UM, BECAUSE OF THESE TWO CIRCUMSTANCES THAT IT HAS BEEN THROUGH, I FIND, I, I, I REALLY BELIEVE THAT IT HAS HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE, UH, TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, AND I CERTAINLY DO HOPE THAT THE, UH, H D R C WILL, UH, FIND THAT IT REALLY IS HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT AND, UM, AND SEND IT ON ITS WAY TO BECOMING A LANDMARK. THANK YOU. HELLO, THIS IS PATRICIA M SEIDENBERG, 1 1 4 1 8 HOLLOW TREE STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 3 0 2 3 0. I'M CALLING ON ITEM 20. THAT'S 5 0 3 URBAN LOOP. UH, PLEASE VOTE FOR THIS. AND FOR AS DESIGNATION AS THIS PROPERTY MEETS FIVE OF THE 16 DESIGNATION CRITERIA AND ONLY THREE ARE REQUIRED FOR THE HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION. IT IS A REMINDER OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE OF THE COMMUNITY, UH, LOWER DETAIL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. HI, THIS IS ANNE WALLACE, 2 1 7 VANCE STREET AT SAN ANTONIO, 7 8 2 1 0. AND I'M CALLING ABOUT, UH, THE, UH, BROTHEL THAT'S UP FOR HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION DOWNTOWN. I'M CALLING, UH, IN STRONG SUPPORT OF PROTECTING THAT BUILDING. UH, I, OUR HISTORY IS JUST DI DISAPPEARING RIGHT AND LEFT, AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR H D R C REALLY TO DRAW A LINE, WHICH, UM, REALLY HAS NOT BEEN DRAWN SO OFTEN. WE'VE LOST SO MANY THINGS AND REGRETTED IT. UM, THAT'S MY COMMENT, AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO READING, UH, IN THE NEWS THAT, UH, IN FACT, THIS STRUCTURE HAS AND THIS PIECE OF HISTORY THAT'S SO IMPORTANT. LO OUR, OUR EARLY HISTORY OF THE CITY POST CIVIL WAR, UH, OUR LABOR HISTORY, UH, THE HISTORY OF WOMEN IN, AND THE HISTORY OF LATO. THEY'RE ALL REALLY MATTER AND THEIR DISAPPEARING. THANKS SO MUCH. BYE-BYE. OKAY. I BELIEVE THAT WAS OUR LAST VOICEMAIL. UM, DOES THE APPLICANT WANT TO TAKE TWO MINUTES FOR REBUTTAL? I'LL, I'LL DO ONE AND ASK CROSS HILL AND ANTONIO TO WEIGH IN. UM, APPRECIATE MR. MCKNIGHT ACKNOWLEDGING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE HISTORY HERE. AND I, THE BASIC ARGUMENT IS THAT, UH, IT'S NOT A FINER, UNIQUE EXAMPLE. UM, IT IS THE ONE THAT'S LEFT AND THAT'S PART OF THE, THE STRUCTURE HEARING. CAN YOU SEE IT? I MEAN, THIS BUILDING DOES COMMUNICATE, I THINK, IN A VERY SIMPLE EXAMPLE. [01:15:01] IT'S NOT THE MCNA OF THE SPANISH, UH, REVIVAL STYLE, UH, IT'S ARCHITECTURE. IT'S LOST SOME PIECES, BUT I THINK EVEN THEIR OWN DIAGRAMS SHOW HOW MUCH IS STILL LEFT. AND, UM, I'D JUST LIKE TO FINALLY SAY MAYBE GRAEL AND ANTONIO CAN ADD ONTO THIS. YOU KNOW, THE WEST SIDE DID NOT GET PRESERVED LIKE THE NORTH SIDE DID. UM, AND WE HAVE TO MAKE DUE SOMETIMES WITH STRUCTURES THAT AREN'T SPECTACULAR BECAUSE THEY ARE WHAT'S LEFT OF THE HISTORY. THANK YOU. YEAH. THAT, AGAIN, THAT HAS BEEN OUR HISTORY IS TOTAL ERASURE, TOTAL DEMOLITION OF OUR COMMUNITIES. I GREW UP JUST A MILE WEST AND MY WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS DEMOLISHED. THERE ARE SOME REMNANTS NORTH OF GUADALUPE, BUT SOUTH OF GUADALUPE, IT'S ALL GONE. WHEN I DRIVE BY AND I SEARCH FOR LATO, I DON'T SEE IT. I DON'T FEEL IT. I HAVE TO GET CLOSE TO THE DOWNTOWN AREA WHERE THE SPANISH GOVERNOR'S PALACE IS. AND IT, YOU KNOW, IMAGINE WITH THE O HENRY HOUSE, OH, THIS IS WHAT PROBABLY SOME OF THEM ARE, OR AGAIN, TO SEE THE IMAGES THAT MR. MCKNIGHT SHARED. WHY DID THEY ALL DISAPPEAR? YOU KNOW, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBORHOOD DIDN'T MATTER. THE, YOU KNOW, OUR MEXICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY, OUR MEXICAN COMMUNITY DIDN'T MATTER. UM, INSTEAD WE PUT JAILS THERE. INSTEAD, WE PUT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, LITTLE SHOPS, PIZZA, HUDSON, , YOU KNOW, NOTHING THAT GIVES US A REAL SENSE OF WHAT THAT NEIGHBORHOOD WAS. AND SO WHAT WE HAVE LEFT, WE MUST PRESERVE. AND IT'S NOT THE, THE SMALL LITTLE CASITAS YOU, YOU KNOW, THAT WERE SHOWN, BUT IT WAS A DIFFERENT BUILDING AND, AND THAT SHOWED THE DIVERSITY OF THE PEOPLE, OF THE SPACES OF THE COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO HONOR ALL THAT DIVERSITY. ANTONIO, AM I UNMUTED THERE? OKAY, THANKS FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO, TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. IT MATTERS A LOT. AND I THINK I WANT TO REFER TO THE GENTLEMAN WHO SPOKE AGAINST, UM, UH, PRESERVATION OR AGAINST REVIEWING. AND, AND I'M, I'M SORRY TO SAY THAT THAT IS THE GENERAL ATTITUDE, UH, AND THE DISRESPECT AND THE DISREGARD FOR A HISTORY THAT IS NOT EURO-AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS, ALTHOUGH CERTAINLY WORKING CLASS WHITE WOMEN WE'RE ALSO PART OF THIS HISTORY. UM, I, I JUST TO ECHO WHAT, UH, WHAT, UH, GRACIELA AND, AND VINCE HAVE SAID, UM, THIS, THIS GENTLEMAN'S, UH, COMMENTS ARE, UH, INDICATIVE OF, OF, OF, OF THE HISTORICAL ATTITUDES, UM, OF, OF THIS, OF THE CITY, OF ITS, UM, GOVERNANCE, UM, SECTOR OF ITS BUSINESS SECTOR, LARGELY OF ITS, UH, IN MANY CASES, COMMUNITY SECTOR. SO THEIR HORRORS, THEIR CRIMINALS, THEY'RE, UM, UH, DISREPUTABLE. THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH AND ON AND ON AND ON. UH, SO FOR ME, AS AN HISTORIAN, THAT'S, AND, AND AS A CHICANA, AS A MEXICAN AMERICAN WOMAN, UM, THAT'S PRECISELY WHY , WE NEED TO SAVE, UH, AND PROTECT. WE NEED TO HONOR, SAVE, AND PROTECT. AND, UM, TO, UM, UH, I'M SORRY, YOU'LL FORGIVE ME. I DO NOT RECALL, UH, THE, THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS THE DEVELOPER, UH, TO, TO HIS COMMENTS ABOUT SIGNIFICANCE. UM, THAT'S PRECISELY THE ISSUE. THE BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES OF WORKING CLASS PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN CON, CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT. THOSE BUILDINGS LARGELY ARE NOT, UH, CONSTRUCTED BY ARCHITECTS, THOUGH I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THIS ONE IS, UM, AND, AND SO, AND ON AND ON AND ON. SO I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR THE POINT, BUT I, I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT THE, THE, THE GENTLEMAN'S RESPONSE, THE, THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS A DEVELOPER'S RESPONSE, IT'S ALSO, UH, INDICATIVE OF, OF THE OTHER GENTLEMAN'S, UM, UH, FRAME OF, OF IDEAS, ALTHOUGH DIFFERENT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT HE, UM, WAS CALLING, UH, PEOPLE WHORES OR ANYTHING. UM, BUT, BUT IT'S JUST TO SAY THAT, THAT THOSE, THOSE ARE THE STANDARD RESPONSES TO WORKING CLASS MEXICAN AMERICAN HISTORY AND REALITY. SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE TIME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UH, WE WILL NOW HAVE, WE'LL NOW HAVE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION [01:20:01] COMMISSIONER, IT'S JUST A REMINDER, WE, UM, YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS OF EITHER THE APPLICANTS ON THE CALL OR THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE HERE IN PERSON, MR. CHAIR. YES. BECAUSE, UM, OF PROXIMITY TO THE ENVIRONMENTS THAT I'M, UH, REALLY MOST FAMILIAR WITH IN SAN ANTONIO, I'D LIKE TO KIND OF MAYBE BEGIN OUR COMMENTS HERE. UM, THE, UM, YOU, YOU KNOW, I THINK ON BOTH SIDES, THERE'S A TERMINOLOGY THAT'S USED THAT IN A WAY IS SO INTERCHANGEABLE. YOU KNOW, THAT THE REFERENCE OF, YOU KNOW, USING THE WORD, BECAUSE THE WORD IS PART OF THE DIALOGUE, RIGHT? USING THE WORD W***E ON ONE END, AND THEN THE REFERENCE ON THE OTHER END USING THE WORD WORKING CLASS MEXICANO COMMUNITY, IT, IT, YOU KNOW, THEY BOTH KIND OF SUFFER THE EDNA COMPLEX BECAUSE THEY'RE SETTING EACH OTHER OPPOSED TO EACH OTHER, RIGHT? AND SAYING THAT ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, UH, AND THE TERMINOLOGY OF THIS PLACE, RIGHT? UM, I'M NOT SURE THAT, THAT THE, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO, TO SAY THAT ONE IS RIGHT OR ONE IS THE OTHER ONE IS WRONG, IS, IS CORRECT. AND I THINK IT'S, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO, TO AT LEAST HAVE A BALANCED, UH, UNDERSTANDING OF, OF WHAT MAKES THIS PLACE SPECIAL IS, IS I THINK, A LITTLE BIT MORE GENERIC AND UNDERSTANDING THAT, UM, THERE WAS AN AREA THAT IS THIS AREA THAT IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF THE MEXICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY'S HISTORY. AND THAT IF YOU PEEL IT BACK ONE MORE LAYER, IT'S ONLY MEXICAN HISTORY, SO THAT AS WE MOVE FURTHER BACK INTO THE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO, WE ENTER A POINT WHERE IT'S SAN ANTONIO DE BEJA, AND THEN WE HIT ANOTHER POINT WHERE IT'S NOT EVEN THAT, BUT THERE'S AN INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THAT HAD BEEN PUSHED INTO POVERTY. AND THAT AREA OF POVERTY BEGINS WITH THIS AREA OF DOWNTOWN IN THE MODERN PERIOD OF, OF, UH, YOU KNOW, THE SAN ANTONIO METROPOLIS. SO, UH, THERE WERE A GREAT MAJORITY OF WHITE WORKING WOMEN IN THE RED LIGHT DISTRICT, AS A MATTER OF FACT. I, I BELIEVE THAT IT WAS THE MAJORITY. AND THEN FROM THERE, MEXICAN AMERICANS WERE ALLOWED TO WORK IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, AND AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE ALLOWED TO WORK IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. BUT WHAT ALSO HAPPENED WAS THAT THE, THE PRO, THE, THE INDUSTRY OF PROSTITUTION THEN BECAME VERY UNREGULATED AS IT EVEN MOVED FURTHER INTO THE WEST, WHERE THE CONDITIONS WERE HORRIBLE, UH, WITH RESPECT TO THE NEGLECT THAT THAT WAS SEEN APPROPRIATE FOR MEXICAN AMERICANS OF THE TIME. AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE NOW WE TALK ABOUT THE EVOLUTION OF NOT SO MUCH HOW MANY ORPHANAGES THERE ARE IN SAN ANTONIO, AND HOW THESE ORPHANAGES ARE, ARE OF ALL DIFFERENT PERIODS, BUT THE EMERGENCE OF THEM AND WHY THEY WERE SO NECESSARY. SO, SO THIS, THIS, I THINK THE, THE MORE, UM, APPROPRIATE AND MORE, UM, UH, CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE, BECAUSE THIS IS SO MUCH ABOUT WHETHER THIS PLACE IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE EVEN THE, THE, WHERE THE APPLICANTS HAVE, HAVE REALLY DONE A GOOD JOB IN, IN EXPRESSING THE HISTORY OF IT, UH, AND, AND THE, THE, THE, UH, THE, THE CONTRACTOR OR THE, OR THE DEVELOPER HAS ALSO MADE THE SAME CASE IN REALITY, AS A MATTER OF FACT, FROM A, FROM A ARCHITECTURAL STANDPOINT, LOOKING AT THE DRAWINGS, PEELING BACK THE DIFFERENT LAYERS OF THIS BUILDING'S HISTORY, I, I, I, I CAN'T HELP BUT SEE FROM DRAWING ONE, THE HISTORIC BUILDING THAT EXISTS INSIDE OF WHAT IS THERE TODAY. I THINK THE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE DIALOGUE TO ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPER TO GET INTO IS MUCH LIKE THE DIALOGUE THAT WE GOT INTO WITH THE, UM, URBAN LOOP GROUP AROUND THE DE LA GARZA HOUSE, WHICH IS WHAT PIECES OF THIS, UH, COMPLEX ARE NOT HISTORIC. WHAT PIECES OF THIS COMPLEX CAN ACTUALLY BE PEELED BACK IN ORDER TO ENABLE THE REAL HISTORY OF THE STRUCTURE TO STAND PROUD, WHILE THE DEVELOPER FIGURES OUT A WAY TO DO EXACTLY WHAT THE URBAN GROUP DID, THE URBAN LOOP GROUP DID, UH, I'M SORRY, THE, UM, WESTERN URBAN GROUP TO BE ABLE TO USE A NEW DEVELOPMENT THAT ENHANCES THE ARTIFACT AS IT COULD STAND WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A DEVELOPMENT THAT THAT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL TO THE, TO THE, TO THE, UH, DEVELOPER. BUT WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, ENABLING THE DEVELOPER WHO APPEARS TO BE A VERY IMPORTANT, UM, DEVELOPER IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, TO, UM, USE THAT EXAMPLE TO SAY THAT NOT ONLY IS OUR PROJECT IMPORTANT TO SAN ANTONIO, [01:25:01] BUT OUR COMMITMENT TO THE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO THAT CREATIVELY YOU MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE TWO THINGS WORK TOGETHER. BECAUSE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE, OF THE HI HISTORY REALLY DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK. AND THERE IS NO RECORD OF ASKING COMMUNITIES OF POVERTY, WHAT, WHAT IS SPECIAL TO THEIR, I'LL, I'LL BE FINISHED RIGHT IN A SECOND, MR. CHAIR, BECAUSE IT, IT, IT EXACTLY IS JUST THAT THE AREAS THAT GET TORN DOWN ARE THE POOREST AREAS ALWAYS, AND THOSE ARTIFACTS THAT ARE THE ARTIFACTS OF, I DON'T WANNA SAY OUR WORKING CLASS, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THERE IS NO WORKING CLASS IN COMMUNITIES OF POVERTY, BUT SURELY THEY HAVE SOMETHING, AND SURELY THEIR HISTORY IS IMPORTANT AS WELL. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY. YES, SIR. UM, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT, UM, ECHOING, UM, FELLOW COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, AND, UM, I REALLY JUST WANNA KIND OF SAY THIS WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF PONTIFICATING OR JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT SOUND REAL ELOQUENT. UM, BUT HE DID MENTION, AND, YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING OF OTHER EXAMPLES, UM, IN THE WEST SIDE, RIGHT? UM, OF HOW MANY BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN JUST RAISED, UM, HOW THEY'VE BEEN CHANGED AND WHAT'S REPLACED THEM REALLY HASN'T KIND OF, UM, DONE JUSTICE TO TELLING THE STORY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UM, AS I WAS REACH RESEARCHING THIS, THIS PARTICULAR CASE AND THINKING ABOUT IT, UM, THAT SIGNIFICANCE OF IT BEING THE ONLY, ONE OF THE ONLY ONES LEFT TO TELL THAT STORY OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK IS, UM, IT'S IMPORTANT. IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO KIND OF THINK, TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY AND THINK ABOUT THE STORIES THAT WE WANT TO KIND OF TELL AND HOW WE WANNA PRESERVE AND HOW WE WANNA STAND AND, UM, THE TEST OF TIME. AND SO, UM, I'M IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING THE HISTORICAL DESIGNATION, BUT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT I'M NOT WILLING TO WORK AND, AND SUPPORT IN HOW WE CAN MAYBE WORK WITH A DEVELOPER, MAYBE TO, UM, DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH THAT PROPERTY. UM, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO CONSIDER HISTORICAL DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YES. I WOULD ECHO, UM, WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING DESIGNATION. UM, I'VE VISITED THE BUILDING, LOOKED THROUGH IT, AND YES, A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN LOST AND MODIFIED, BUT I BELIEVE THERE'S ENOUGH THERE. UM, AS WELL AS, AND MAYBE EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, IS THE CULTURAL AND, UH, UH, SOCIAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS BUILDING, WHICH IS WHAT I'M IN FAVOR OF MS. GROUP. YES. UM, I WANTED TO ASK, UH, THE OWNERS, REPRESENTATIVE OR STAFF HAVE YOU, UH, CONSIDERED IF ANY OF THE, UH, GOING ALONG WITH WHAT'S BEING SAID, UH, ANY PARTS OF THE, UH, NON-ORIGINAL, THE ADDITIONS COULD BE NOT CONSIDERED HISTORICAL LANDMARK OR SHOULD THE WHOLE PROPERTY AND STAFF CAN START AND THEN THE APPLICANT CAN. YEAH, I'LL LET THE OWNER MAKE HIS WAY UP. BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE ACTUALLY ADDRESSED IN STAFF'S ASSESSMENT OF THE PROPERTY, IS, UM, THAT WHILE DESIGNATION WOULD POTENTIALLY RESULT IN THE ENTIRE SITE BEING DESIGNATED, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYTHING IS NECESSARILY PROTECTED. AND SO THERE COULD BE PARTIAL DEMOLITION THAT, UM, ALLOWS THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE OR PARTS OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE TO BE PRESERVED. THANK YOU. UH, AS, TO BE HONEST, WE HAVE NOT GONE FAR ENOUGH ALONG IN THE PROCESS TO SAY WE CAN KEEP THIS PORT PORTION OF THE BUILDING OR, OR DESTROY THAT PORTION. WE DON'T KNOW YET, UM, THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T DONE THE INVESTIGATION FAR ENOUGH ALONG. THANK YOU. AND I MEAN, AND THE ADDITIONS ARE ON THE SAND WARMUP, THE 1951 SAND WARMUP, WHICH I, WE USE A LOT FOR DETERMINING HISTORIC ACCESSORY STRUCTURES OR, UM, SETBACKS. AND SO, I MEAN, I WOULD STILL CONSIDER IT LIKE PART OF THE HISTORIC, BUT I MEAN, COULD BE OPEN FOR THAT, UM, FUTURE DISCUSSION. AND, AND I THINK, UM, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ HAD A GOOD POINT. YOU ACTUALLY SHOWED US HOW THIS BUILDING HAS BEEN MODIFIED, BUT I'M SURE THAT IT COULD BE BROUGHT TO THE ORIGINAL, ORIGINAL INTENT, ORIGINAL, WHAT ORIGINALLY WAS THERE, WHICH MANY PEOPLE HAVE DONE IN SAN ANTONIO WITH PROPERTIES. SO I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS WELL AND SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION FOR HISTORIC LANDMARK. I, I THINK I WILL CLARIFY, UM, JUST FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT, THAT, YOU KNOW, A REMINDER THAT OUR HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE GUIDED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION AND [01:30:01] NOT RESTORATION. AND SO, UM, THERE WOULD NEVER BE A REQUIREMENT TO RESTORE A DESIGNATED PROPERTY TO A PREVIOUS CONDITION. HOWEVER, WHAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE NOW IS TAX INCENTIVES, UM, UH, FOR QUALIFIED EXPENSES TO DO THAT. AND SO JUST MAKING THAT, UM, PART OF THE RECORD, MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF IF THEY CAN CLARIFY A POINT. YES, SIR. UH, COREY, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR THERE TO BE, UH, UH, IT MAY BE AMENDING OR ASKING THE APPLICANT TO AMEND THEIR APPLICATION, BUT AS WE LOOK AT THE PAGE THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED FOR US, UH, IN THE, UH, OR MAYBE THE APPLICANT PRESENTED IN THE FIVE OH THREE URBAN LOOP SANBORN FIRE INSURANCE MAPS BY YEAR, THAT, THAT WE WOULD FIND FOR A, UH, A MOTION, UH, TO APPROVE, UH, DESIGNATION WITH THE STIPULATION THAT A PARTICULAR ERA IS WHAT THE A WHAT THE, WHAT THE DEVELOPER WOULD BE BOUND TO. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN REALLY HAPPEN AT ANY STAGE IN THIS PROCESS. UM, THE ITEM TODAY IS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE H D R C FOR ELIGIBILITY OF THE SITE. UM, AND SO THAT'S EVERYTHING. UM, AS PART OF TODAY'S RECOMMENDATION, YOU COULD SAY SPECIFICALLY, UM, BUILDINGS, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN BUILDINGS OR BUILDINGS OF A CERTAIN ERA, UM, AS RECOMMENDED AS ELIGIBLE, UM, IF THAT WAS WHAT THEY COMMISSIONED, FOUND TO BE MOST APPROPRIATE. BUT ALSO FOLLOWING TODAY'S DECISION AS POTENTIALLY A RESOLUTION BY CITY COUNCIL TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE DESIGNATION PROCESS. AND DURING THE DESIGNATION PROCESS, THERE CAN BE ADDITIONAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHICH PORTRAITS OF THE SITE, UH, SHOULD BE DESIGNATED. UM, SOMETIMES WHAT HAPPENS IS THROUGH, UM, THAT PROCESS, THE A OR THE OWNER OR THE APPLICANT, UH, MAY PRESENT A MEETS AND BOUND SURVEY OF WHAT THEY PROPOSE TO BE DESIGNATED. UM, THAT CAN ALSO BE SOMETHING AS PART OF COUNCIL'S RESOLUTION. UM, SO AT ANY POINT, IT, IT COULD SORT OF BE NARROWED DOWN TO CERTAIN PORTIONS OF THE SITE M MR. CHAIR. WITH, WITH THAT, WITH THAT BEING CLARIFIED, I WONDER IF IT, IF YOU MIGHT NOT CONSIDER, UH, ASKING THE APPLICANT IF THERE WAS A PART, IF, IF THEY FOUND IT, UH, APPROPRIATE, LET'S JUST SAY TO, UM, AT THE VERY LEAST, CONSIDER THE NINE, UH, THE, THE 1912 MAP, AND AT THE VERY MOST, CONSIDER THE 1931 MAP. UM, AND I, AND, AND IT MAY EVEN MAY EVEN ASK THE CONSERVATION, THE B P A TO CONSIDER, UH, ASKING FOR A CONTINUANCE SO THAT IF THEY DON'T GET TOGETHER WITH THE OWNER TO DO THAT, THAT THEY CAN GET TOGETHER AS A, AS A, AS, AS THE APPLICANT TO REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT HISTORY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT THEY WOULD CONSIDER TO BE, UH, ESSENTIAL IN THE IDEA OF IT AS A BROTHEL, THE IDEA OF IT AS, UH, THE ORIGINAL KIND OF CARAMEL LIGHT INVESTMENT, UM, THE COMPONENTS OF LATO. AND AT THE SAME TIME, THAT ENABLED THE, THE DEVELOPER TO HAVE, UM, A MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF EMPOWERMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE, WHICH IS ALSO IMPORTANT. RIGHT? SO I'LL ADD ON TO THAT. UM, DEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE IS ALREADY IN THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE. AND SO THE ONLY EXCEPTION WOULD BE HOW DEMOLITION IS PERMITTED FOR THAT SITE PRIOR TO DEVELOPMENT. THE DEVELOPMENT WOULD STILL COME HERE FOR REVIEW UNDER THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE. UM, ONE OF THE CONCERNS WITH KIND OF DESIGNATED A PORTION OF THE SITE ONLY, UM, IS THEN YOU MAY LOSE SOME PURVIEW OVER HOW THINGS CONNECT OR SURROUND THE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT PORTION. AND SO I JUST, JUST FOR INFORMATIONAL PURS PURPOSES, I WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. AND, AND, AND, UH, THANK YOU, COREY. UM, I JUST, YOU KNOW, WANT TO KINDA, UH, MUDDY THE WATER A LITTLE FURTHER TO SAY THAT, UM, IF THE APPLICANT CAN SEE A BENEFICIAL COMPROMISE, THAT ABSOLUTELY MEANS THAT THEY WOULD SIT DOWN AND BE WILLING TO SAY THAT THERE CAN BE A WIN-WIN WIN SITUATION HERE. THAT OBVIOUSLY, A A, A LARGE PART OF THE OBLIGATION BECOMES THE H D R C TO FOLLOW THROUGH AS IT RETURNS IN ITS DUE DILIGENCE, BUT WITHOUT, IN INITIALLY TYING THE HANDS OF EITHER PARTY. SO, UH, MR. CHAIR, THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. UM, JUST A QUICK COMMENT ON A FEW THINGS. ONE, I THINK MR. MCKNIGHT'S, PRESIDENT MR. MCKNIGHT'S PRESENTATION WAS VERY RESPECTFUL. THERE WAS A SUGGESTION THAT IT, IT WASN'T, [01:35:01] I THINK HE WAS TRYING TO BE OBJECTIVE IN APPLYING THE, UH, THE STANDARDS, UH, THAT ARE THE, UH, FOUNDATION OF, OF ALL OF OUR, UM, GUIDELINES, WHICH ARE SECRETARY STANDARDS FOR, UH, REHABILITATION. AND I'VE GONE THROUGH THE BUILDING, I'VE LOOKED AT, I'VE LOOKED AT THE, UH, THE DIAGRAMS THAT TRY TO RECONSTRUCT IT, UH, IN QUITE SOME DETAIL. I APPRECIATE, UH, PARTICULARLY JONATHAN CARD, UH, HIS EFFORTS. I GIVE HIM A SHOUT OUT FOR TRYING TO REALLY UNDERSTAND AND PIECE TOGETHER. I THINK HE DID A VERY GOOD EFFORT IN, IN TRYING TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE RESOURCE IS. AND IT HAS BEEN RADICALLY ALTERED, AND IT IS MISSING A GREAT DEAL OF ITS, UH, CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES. BUT THAT'S ME AS AN ARCHITECT, AS PRESERVATIONIST SPEAKING. I'M NOT A CULTURAL HISTORIAN, AND I DO NOT HAVE THOSE QUALIFICATIONS. AND I, MY SENSE IS, IS WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS GREAT HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE TO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THOSE CULTURAL ASSOCIATIONS 'CAUSE OF THAT CULTURAL HISTORY. AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE DEALING WITH SORT OF THE, THE HIGH ALTERED REMAINS OF WHAT IS LEFT TO KIND OF GIVE IT A BIOLOGICAL EXAMPLE. IF IT'S THE LAST WHITE BEED TIGER, WHO CARES IF IT HAS FLEAS, RIGHT? IT'S STILL THE ONE THAT YOU GOTTA SAVE. SO I DO NOT THINK THIS IS AN EXCEPTIONAL PIECE OF ARCHITECTURE. I DON'T THINK IT, IT, IT EVEN TELLS THAT STORY IN AN EXCEPTIONAL WAY, BUT THERE'S THAT POTENTIAL THERE. AND DUE TO THAT POTENTIAL, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS WE KEEP THIS AS, AS OPEN-ENDED AND NOT TRY TO DESIGNATE PORTIONS OF IT. BECAUSE I THINK AS YOU BRING ON IN A DESIGN TEAM, UH, HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE HISTORIANS AND, UH, OR CULTURAL HISTORIANS THAT WOULD BE IN THERE TO HELP EVALUATE AND ASSIGN PRIORITIES TO THINGS. AND THAT THOSE ARE DETAILS THAT WE REALLY SHOULD NOT BE GETTING INTO WHEN WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THE DESIGNATION, RECOMMENDING DESIGNATION. SO THAT, THAT'S WHERE I STAND ON THIS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. YES, SIR. SO, I, I SHARE A LOT OF COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S, UH, FEELINGS ON THIS. I ALSO VISITED, UH, THE PROPERTY AND ON THE, THE ORIGINAL PRIMARY STRUCTURE, UH, THE DEGREE OF LOSS IS, IS CONCERNING. UM, HOW THAT, HOW THAT COULD BE PRESERVED. I THINK, UH, WOULD, WOULD POSE A GREAT CHALLENGE IF SOME OF THESE ADDITIONS WERE PEELED BACK PRIMARILY BECAUSE MOST OF THE PRIMARY FACADES, UM, HAVE BEEN, UM, ALTERED, PARTIALLY REMOVED FENESTRATION WINDOWS, DOORS, AND THE EXTERIOR LARGELY REMOVED. MOSTLY WHAT REMAINS OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE IS THE FRAMING. SOME OF THE FRAMING OF THE ORIGINAL OPENINGS DOES REMAIN BURIED IN THE WALLS AND THE FRAMING OF THE ROOF. SO WHILE I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND THOSE CRITERIA THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH SIX AND SEVEN, UM, I DO, UH, APPRECIATE THE PRESENTATION FROM THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, ESPANZA PEACE AND JUSTICE WEST SIDE PRESERVATION ALLIANCE, AND THEIR PRESENTATION, UH, IN FULL, I THINK CRITERIA IS ONE, THREE AND 11 ARE CERTAINLY MET IN SIX AND SEVEN, I ALSO BELIEVE ARE MET. WHILE I DO HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE PART, I ALSO, UH, ABOUT THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, I ALSO AGREE THAT THE, THE RECOMMENDATION TODAY SHOULD INCLUDE THE WHOLE PROPERTY AND NOT TRY TO PARSE ANYTHING OUT. THEREFORE, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL BASED ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. I'LL SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? UM, MR. CHAIR, I, I'M, UM, CO COMPLETELY, COMPLETELY WITH THE, THE, THE, UM, THE VOTE THAT, UH, THE, UM, MOTION AND THE SECOND IMPLY. BUT I, I JUST, UH, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THINKING OF THE CREATIVE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE BEEN, THAT HAVE BEEN BEFORE THE COMMISSION, I WOULD SAY WITHIN THE LAST YEAR, TWO STAND OUT, THE ONE THAT IS THE TELE GARZA HOUSE THAT REALLY SEEMED TO, THAT IT WAS GONNA BE A BIG FIGHT AND IT WAS NOT. THE DEVELOPER GOT VERY PROACTIVE AND CAME UP WITH A WONDERFUL SOLUTION. AND THEN THE SECOND ONE THAT STANDS UP, MR. CHAIR, IS THE ROSARIOS PROJECT THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AN ARTIFACT EXISTING WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A COMPLETELY NEW DEVELOPMENT, UH, THINK OF THE STONEWALL THAT ROSARIOS ENCAPSULATES WITHIN THEIR BUILDING. UM, YOU KNOW, AS WE KNOW THAT A DESIGNATION DOES NOT MEAN THAT AN APPLICANT CANNOT, [01:40:01] UH, GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT OR GO TO THE CITY AND STILL REQUEST A DEMOLITION. BUT IF OUR INFLUENCE IS, IS, UH, I THINK PROPERLY, UM, UH, UH, DIRECTED IN THE DIRECTION, UH, THAT ENTICES, UM, UH, COOPERATION AND INGENUITY, I WOULD JUST ASK THE MAKER OF THE MOTION TO REALLY CONSIDER IF, IF NOT THE 1931, UH, 1912 DIFFERENCE, SURELY THE 1938 DIFFERENCE FROM THE 1951. UH, I KNOW THAT IT, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE THINKING FROM FELLOW COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, WHO I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR. UM, UH, BUT I, I THINK PART OF WHAT, WHAT WE ALSO WANNA DO IS ENABLE, UM, PARTICULARLY IF WE HAVE, UH, PLACED REASONABLE, UH, EXPECTATIONS FOR THE UTTER PRESERVATION OF THINGS THAT WE HOLD PRECIOUS. UM, SO, UH, I, WITH THOSE COMMENTS, I JUST, UH, LET YOU KNOW THAT, UH, I DO SUPPORT THE MOTION, UH, WITHOUT A DOUBT. UH, BUT, UM, I ALSO ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT AND, UH, THE, UM, MAKER OF THE MOTION, UH, TO SEE US ALL AS PART OF THE SAME POSITIVE OPPORTUNITY FOR IMPROVEMENT, NOT ONLY OF OUR THINGS THAT WE WANT TO PRESERVE, BUT OF THOSE THINGS THAT REPRESENT OUR FUTURE AS WELL. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. YES, SIR. UM, I THINK I, IN RESPONSE TO THE COMMISSIONER'S THOUGHTS, UM, I THINK THAT THIS PROCESS DOES NOT PRECLUDE, UH, POSSIBLE OUTCOMES THAT WERE MENTIONED. I ALSO THINK THAT THIS OUTCOME DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR DEMOLITION. I THINK IF PARTIAL DEMOLITION, UH, WERE REQUESTED, IT NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED IN THE CONTEXT OF THE REQUEST AND, AND NOT DONE SO BEFORE THE REQUEST. SO I HESITATE TO TRY TO DRAW LINES AROUND INDIVIDUAL PORTIONS OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE TODAY WITHOUT A PROPOSAL FOR, FOR PARTIAL DEMOLITION OR REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE. I THINK THAT, UH, THAT REMAINS POSSIBLE, AND THIS PROCESS DOES NOT PRECLUDE THAT AT ALL. UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF, IF, UH, I'M MISUNDERSTANDING SOMETHING. CAN YOU HELP ME HERE? YES, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU, UH, MR. FISH, THAT, UM, PUTTING ANY LIMITS ON THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. THIS AT THIS POINT, UH, I THINK IS, UH, SHORT-CHANGING THE, THE, UH, DESIGN PROCESS AND THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT, UH, FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, UH, COULD FORESEE IN, IN THESE STRUCTURES. SO, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SAVINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. NAN. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. ZER. AYE. UNE AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. NOW, CORY, COULD YOU JUST GO THROUGH THE PROCESS ON THIS NOW THAT WE'VE TAKEN THIS VOTE? UM, SO BECAUSE, UH, STATE LAW DOES NOT ALLOW THE, UH, FOR A PROPERTY TO BE REZONED WITHOUT OWNER CONSENT, UM, WHAT IS NEEDED IS A CITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION TO INITIATE THE REZONING PROCESS OUTSIDE OF OWNER CONSENT. UM, AND THEN IF THAT IS APPROVED, UM, IT WILL COME BACK HERE, UM, HOPEFULLY FOR A SUPER MAJORITY APPROVAL IN ORDER TO SEND THAT ZONING FORWARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, OKAY. I BELIEVE WE HAVE OUR APPLICANT BACK FOR ITEM THREE. UM, SO LET ME MAKE THIS PHONE A PANELIST AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO PIPE IN MR. SOSO, UM, TO OUR PREVIOUS APPLICANTS. UM, FEEL FREE JUST TO DISCONNECT. UM, THANK YOU SO MUCH. MR. SOSA, ARE YOU THERE? YOU CAN HEAR HIM ON, OKAY. [01:45:13] MRSA, VERY . [3. Address/Description: 334 BURLESON ST HDRC Case No.: 2021026 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Cesar Sosa/5 ELEMENTS INTERNATIONAL LLC Request: Construction of a twostory, singlefamily residential structure City Council Dist.: 2] OKAY, SO RACHEL SAID SHE CAN HEAR YOU. OH, MR. SOSA, ARE YOU THERE? YES, SIR. OKAY, WE CAN HEAR YOU NOW. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. UH, I'M REQUESTING AN APPROVAL OF A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING ON 3 3 4 BURLINGTON. IN OUR LAST MEETING, A CONTINUANCE WAS VOTED UPON. THIS GAVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH, UH, H D R C. IN THAT MEETING, A LIST OF ITEMS WERE DISCUSSED. UH, THESE ITEMS HAVE BEEN CURRENTLY ADDRESSED. UH, I CAN REVIEW THESE ITEMS WITH YOU, OR I CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. THANK YOU, MR. SOSA. UH, MS. SAVINA, I BELIEVE YOU HAD SOME QUESTIONS? UH, YES. UM, MR. SOSA? UM, WE HAVE AN ECHO. YEAH, I'M HAVING TROUBLE. . ARE WE GOOD? WELL, I'M HAVING TROUBLE HEARING YOU. WE'RE GOOD. RACHEL WAS PICKING UP SOME FEEDBACK ON HER MICROPHONE, SOMETHING. OKAY. UM, MR. SOSA, UM, I'M HAPPY TO SEE YOUR, UM, PROJECT COME THROUGH TO H D R C, ESPECIALLY AFTER SO MANY OF US HAVE SAT DOWN AND WORKED WITH YOU, UM, ON MANY DIFFERENT AREAS. AND AS I WAS LOOKING THROUGH THE PACKAGE, I SEE THAT YOU'VE UPDATED QUITE A BIT. AND NOW THAT I LOOK AGAIN, I DO UNDERSTAND, AND I AGREE WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMUNITY GROUP'S, COMMENTS REGARDING DIMENSION SITE PLANS, AND I'M LOOKING AT DIMENSION PLANS. THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS PACKAGE THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY EXPECT TO SEE IN A FINAL APPLICATION. UM, UM, AND WE'VE SEEN DIMENSION PLANS THROUGHOUT OUR PROCESS ALSO WITH YOU. SO, UM, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN INCLUDE THOSE? UM, AND ALSO MR. CHAIRMAN? WELL, DEFINITELY, DEFINITELY. UH, I, I HAVE SEVERAL, THERE WERE SEVERAL VARIATIONS OF THIS PROJECT, AND THERE WAS SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE DIMENSIONS ITSELF THAT IT CREATED CONFUSION. SO I REMOVED ALL THOSE DIMENSIONS FROM IT. I HAVE IT IN MY SET, AND I COULD GIVE IT TO YOU. UH, ONCE THIS, THIS, THE CDS BEGAN, UH, IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE. WELL, I THINK, UM, SOMEHOW THEY NEED TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS. UM, OTHERWISE THE ABILITY TO REFER TO THEM AT A LATER DATE DURING THE PRO UH, CONSTRUCTION PROCESSES IS, IS NOT THERE. UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, HOW WOULD WE, HOW DOES THE COMMISSION NORMALLY COMMISSIONER SAVINO? WHAT YOU CAN DO IS YOU CAN ADD A STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT SUPPLIES THAT TO STAFF OKAY. PRIOR TO ISSUING A FINAL APPROVAL. OKAY. THAT SOUNDS GOOD. WE, UM, TO ADD, UM, I'D LIKE TO ADD A STIPULATION THAT, UM, BEFORE A GRANTING OF A C O A, THAT FULLY DIMENSION SITE PLANS, UH, CONFIRMING STAFF'S COMMENTS AND STAFF STIPULATIONS ARE INCLUDED. ALSO SOME DOCUMENTATION THAT CONFIRMS THE WINDOW PLACEMENTS, LOCATIONS WITH DIMENSIONS AS WELL AS SPECIFICATIONS ARE INCLUDED. UM, SO THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. I'LL MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH THE STAFF STIPULATIONS AND ADD, UH, COMMISSIONER SENOS STIPULATION. OKAY. AND THIS IS COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. I SECOND. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR. UH, IS, IS THE, THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION, IS IT TIED TO, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING MODEL AND, AND THAT, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY SYSTEMIC? I, I, I MORE MEAN, UM, IS THIS A BELOW MARKET RATE SELL PRODUCT OR IS THIS A MARKET RATE PRODUCT? UH, I, I'D SAY MARKET RATE. UH, I'M, I'M NOT SHOOTING FOR ANY, ANYTHING, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT IF THERE'S A DESIRE FOR THAT, UH, I WE CAN TRY TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT. NO, JUST, JUST SO, SO THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, UM, PART OF, UM, THE ROLE OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, HAS AN, IS ENABLED TO [01:50:01] CONSIDER ALL DECISIONS, UH, UH, LOOKING THROUGH, UM, UH, AN EQUITY LENS SO THAT THAT'S COMPLETELY, UM, UP TO THE INTENT OF WHATEVER THE PROJECT IS. RIGHT. BUT IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE ALLOWED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION. UM, BUT THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER. THANK YOU, SIR. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? FISH. HE STEPPED AWAY. OH, SAVINA. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. SUM. MADAN. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRUB? AYE. ZER. AYE. LA AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. SOSO. THANK YOU. UM, UP NEXT [15. Address/Description: 526 RIVERWALK HDRC Case No.: 2021450 Historic District Name: Alamo Plaza RIO District: RIO3 Applicant: Joseph Smith/JMS Architects, Inc. Request: Construction of a new awning structure at river level, and site work City Council Dist.: 1] IS ITEM 15. HEAD WILL READ THAT CASE, AND OUR APPLICANT IS IN PERSON. THANK GOD. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 15, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 455 26 RIVERWALK. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, CONSTRUCT A STEEL AWNING STRUCTURE IN TWO LOCATIONS WITHIN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY AT THE RIVERWALK LEVEL. AND TWO, TO MODIFY THE EXISTING PAVEMENT SURFACE AT THE WALK LEVEL IN TWO LOCATIONS FROM EXPOSED AGGREGATE PAVEMENT TO BREWING FINISHED CONCRETE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A STEEL AWNING STRUCTURE. PATIO FURNITURE SUCH AS REMOVABLE UMBRELLAS ARE MORE COMMON ON THE RIVER WALK. A PROPOSAL THAT INCORPORATES A LIGHTER FRAME THAT READS VISUALLY AS SITE FURNISHING RATHER THAN A PERMANENT SHADE STRUCTURE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO, THE INSTALLATION OF BROOM FINISHED. CONCRETE STAFF RECOMMENDS THE CONCRETE WITH THAT CONCRETE WITH EXPOSED AGGREGATE BE INSTALLED. A MATCH THAT WITH THAT WHICH IS FOUND CONSISTENTLY IN THE VICINITY, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE EXISTING FLAGSTONE EDGING BE RETAINED. THE APPLICANT, MR. JOSEPH SMITH, IS HERE. UH, THANK YOU, UH, COMMISSIONERS. UM, APPRECIATE CHARLES'S TIME. UH, SO THE PROJECT, UH, YOU KNOW, CURRENTLY THERE'S UH, AN AWNING SYSTEM THAT'S BEEN AT THIS ICONIC LOCATION, UH, SINCE 1975. AND IT'S OBVIOUSLY A VERY, UH, SIGNIFICANT, UH, AREA OF THE RIVER WALK ON THE VAN, UH, WITH AT THE ROYALTY COIN BUILDING. AND OVER TIME, YOU KNOW, THESE, THESE AWNINGS HAVE PERFORMED WELL, AND THE OWNERS OF THE RESTAURANT HAVE MAINTAINED THEM VERY WELL. UM, IT'S JUST THEY, THEY'VE BEEN A, A BIT OUTDATED IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THEIR, THEIR FUNCTION. UM, AND SO WHAT WE LOOKED AT WAS FROM A MACRO LEVEL TO A MICRO LEVEL, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, THE EXISTING CONDITIONS ON THE RIVERWALK AND DIFFERENT AWNING SYSTEMS AND UMBRELLAS THAT ARE ON THE RIVERWALK, AND REALLY TRIED TO COME UP WITH A, AN IDEA THAT WOULD ONE, INCREASE THE EXPOSURE OF THE BUILDING AND TO THE RIVER FOR BOTH THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE, THE PATRONS, AND THEN ALSO PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE RIVERWALK, THE BOATS, AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RIVER. SO THE AWNING STRUCTURE THAT WE ARE PROPOSING ELIMINATES A LOT OF THE COLUMNS AND OBSTRUCTIONS THAT THE CURRENT SYSTEM, UM, I I IS INHERENT IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM BY DOING AN A SHED SYSTEM OF, OF AN AWNING FROM THE RIVER WALK SIDE, FROM THE RIVERSIDE, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, FROM THE VIEW OF THE, FROM THE RIVER UP, YOU HAVE A, A BETTER OPENING. SO THERE'S NOT AN ENCUMBRANCE OF, OF STRUCTURE IN THE WAY. AND FROM THE PEDESTRIANS WALKING DOWN THE, THE RIVER WALK, THEY HAVE A BIGGER VIEW OF THE RIVER AS WELL. SO IT OPENS UP THE STRUCTURE, ELIMINATES A LOT OF THE ENCUMBRANCES THAT ARE INHERENT. SO THAT'S MORE OF FROM THE MICRO MACRO LEVEL. THE MICRO LEVEL IS THE EXISTING AWNING SYSTEM. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE LOW AT SEVEN FEET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE AWNINGS, AND THEY GO UP TO ABOUT 10 AND A HALF FEET TO THE PEAK OF THE AWNINGS. AND SO OUR SHED SYSTEM, WE ARE LOOKING AT GOING FROM NINE TO 10 FEET WITH IT SHEDDING TOWARDS THE, THE RIVER. SO THAT, AGAIN, PEDESTRIANS, IT WOULD BE MORE OF AN OPEN FEELING FROM THE RIVER WALK. WATER WHEN IT DOES RAIN WOULD WALK, WOULD DRAIN OUT INTO THE RIVER AS OPPOSED TO A HARD SURFACE AND CREATE MORE RUNOFF. SO WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID THAT AS WELL. SO THE, THE SYSTEM THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO DO IS INCORPORATING, UH, FANS, HEATERS AND LIGHTING WITHIN THE AWNING STRUCTURE AND ALONG THE PERIMETER AS WELL. YOU KNOW, THERE'S, UH, SOME BLUE RAILINGS THAT ARE PRETTY NON DISTINCT, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT REPLACING THOSE WITH SOME HORSE HITCH TYPE RAILINGS, AGAIN, THAT GO WITH MORE OF THE THEMING OF TEXAS AND THE, AND THE LOCATION THAT WE'RE [01:55:01] IN. IN TERMS OF THE PAVING, AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO DESIGNATE THE EXISTING, UH, PAVING, WHICH IS THE, THE, UH, PEBBLE FINISH CONCRETE. AND JUST RIGHT HERE ON THIS BRIDGE TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE HAGMAN BRIDGE AS IT COMES AROUND THE CORNER. THAT'S ACTUALLY A COMBINATION. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GOT THOSE PICTURES, EDWARD, I SENT YOU, UH, I'M SORRY TODAY, BUT YOU KNOW, IT IS ACTUALLY A COMBINATION OF, UH, PEBBLE FINISHED CONCRETE WITH THE, UH, BROOM FINISH CONCRETE. AND SO AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THAT DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE RIVER WALK AND THE DINING AREAS. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE SOME AREAS OF THE RIVER AND THERE'S ACTUALLY ACROSS THE RIVER, THERE'S ANOTHER AREA WHERE THAT COMBINATION IS USED AS WELL. AGAIN, WE'RE NOT STUCK ON THAT. WE WANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, COMPLIANT WITH WHAT'S DOWN ON THE RIVER. YOU KNOW, WE ALSO MAYBE SUGGEST THAT WE COULD LOOK AT DOING A BURNISHED EXPOSED CONCRETE. AGAIN, THAT'S A TEXTURAL CHANGE BETWEEN THE, UH, AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE WALKWAY WOULD REMAIN, UM, THE BROOM, UH, PEBBLE FINISH. AND THE AREAS WHERE THE TABLES ARE WOULD BE AN ALTERNATE FINISH. WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA SPEAK TO THE, TO THE FUNCTION OF, SO THANK YOU FOR HAVING US HERE TODAY. MY NAME IS WILLIAM GRIN, ONE OF THE OWNERS OF THE REPUBLIC RE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS. AND I'VE WORKED AT THAT RESTAURANT AND WORKED ON THE RIVERWALK SINCE I WAS ABOUT THREE FEET TALL. AND I KNOW THAT THIS DESIGN WOULD BE VERY BENEFICIAL FOR OUR PATRONS COMING DOWN TO THE RIVERWALK. THOSE AWNINGS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 46 YEARS NOW. AND, YOU KNOW, THE FUNCTIONALITY BEHIND THEM ALL, IT'S, IT'S OBSOLETE. IT REALLY IS. WE WANT TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY OF THE, OF WHO WE ARE, RIGHT? TEXAS, TEXAS FLAGS, RIGHT. CONTINUING WITH, YOU KNOW, ILLUMINATING THEM AT NIGHTTIME, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SEE THOSE ICONIC PICTURES OF THE RIVERWALK WITH THE BOATS COMING UP. SO, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THOSE OVER TO THE LEDS AND STILL HAVING, YOU KNOW, MORE OF THAT, WHAT I, WHAT I WOULD ENVISION WITH THOSE, WITH THE LARGER CANOPIES, IT'S KIND OF HAS THAT BARBECUE FEEL TO IT. YOU KNOW, WE SERVE BURGERS AND BARBECUE AND I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT TYPE OF PARK BENCH TYPE, YOU KNOW, AWNING SYSTEM. AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU TOO, WE'VE, WE'VE GOTTA UPGRADE THESE, THESE AWNINGS WITH FAN IN MISTER SYSTEMS. YOU WALK, WALK UP AND DOWN, YOU LOOK RIGHT ACROSS THE RIVER AND THEY'VE GOT THEIR MISTING SYSTEM ON. YOU GO TWO DOORS DOWN TO RIO RIO OR THE ORIGINAL MEXICAN FOOD, YOU KNOW, THEY ALL HAVE THEIR MISTER SYSTEMS AND HEATING SYSTEMS, AND THAT'S GONNA ADD VALUE TO THE PATRONS COMING DOWN IN THE MORNING TIMES BY 11 15, 11 30 THAT EASTERN SUN COMES UP. AND WE'RE, YOU KNOW, MANEUVERING, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN UMBRELLAS TO GIVE COVERAGE TO OUR GUESTS SO THEY DON'T START SQUALLED, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN IT'S 105 DEGREES OUT THERE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, HAVING THOSE MISTERS ON NINE MONTHS OUTTA THE YEAR, IT, IT BRINGS ADDED VALUE TO EVERYONE. AND SAME THING WITH THE HEATERS, YOU KNOW, THAT I THINK PROBABLY THE SIX WEEKS THAT WE PROBABLY USE THEM OUTTA THE YEAR, JANUARY, FEBRUARY, WOULD ALSO BE VERY BENEFICIAL. THAT'S ALL I HAVE, BUT THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, DO WE HAVE CITIZEN COMMENTS? NO, WE DON'T. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION, SIR, IF I MAY. YES, SIR. UM, WOULD THIS, UM, UH, MAYBE I JUST DIDN'T SEE THE PICTURES TOO WELL THERE, BUT WOULD THIS ACTUALLY HELP WITH THE INCREASING ACCESSIBILITY FOR FOLKS MAYBE THAT, UM, ARE WHEELCHAIR BOUND? SO FOR WHEELCHAIRS? UM, NO, NOT REALLY. UM, IT WOULD DEFINITELY HELP WHEN IT COMES TO US SERVING FOOD, GOING IN AND OUT WITH OUR, YOU KNOW, THE RIVER WALK WHEN IT COMES TO WHEELCHAIRS IS REAL TIGHT. I MEAN, FROM WHERE OUR BUILDING IS TO, YOU KNOW, THE WALKWAY, THE PATHWAY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE JUST HAVE TO HAVE SIX FEET. AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU START ON THE WEEKENDS GETTING SO MANY PEOPLE DOWN THERE, YOU KNOW, 40, 50,000 PEOPLE DOWN THERE, IT'S, UH, IT WHEELCHAIRS CAN BE CHALLENGING. SO, AND ALL OF OUR TABLES ARE BOLTED DOWN, SO NO, IT WOULD NOT, AS MOST TABLES ARE BOLTED DOWN ON, ON THE RIVERWALK, WE, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T TAKE 'EM IN AND OUT. I THINK, YOU KNOW, JUST NEXT TO US REAR REAL AND BOUDREAUXS PULL THEIR TABLES AND CHAIRS IN. BUT SO WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, WHEELCHAIR ACCESS, NO, THIS IS MORE OF JUST LIFTING THE UMBRELLAS UP, YOU KNOW, GIVING MORE COVERAGE AND MORE VISIBILITY TO PEOPLE AS THEY'RE WALKING BY. THEY STILL GET COVERAGE, UM, YOU KNOW, OF, OF, OF THE AMBIENCE OF THE RIVER WALK. AND THEN, UH, MY SECOND QUESTION, WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY MORE OF A COMMENT, UM, YOU KNOW, AS I, I'M, I'M THINKING RIGHT? AND, AND YOU KNOW, AS, UM, BUSINESSES CONTINUE TO [02:00:01] ADAPT AND, UM, AS THEY, UH, AS WE, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW TOURISM IS SUCH A HUGE GENERATOR IN SAN ANTONIO SURE. AND CLIMATE CHANGE REALLY JUST KIND OF, UM, ADDRESSING THAT, THAT HEAT. RIGHT. I WOULD THINK, I WAS READING AN ARTICLE RECENTLY ABOUT HOW, UM, THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE COOLEST SUMMERS THAT WE'VE HAD. UM, AND I THINK THOSE MISTERS AND FANS MAY BE SOMETHING THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD CONSIDER, UM, FOR NOT ONLY, YOU KNOW, YOUR RESTAURANT, BUT MAYBE POSSIBLY OTHER, OTHER INSTITUTIONS THAT COME BEFORE US. SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY COMMENT. OH, ABSOLUTELY. AGREED. THANK YOU. YES. COMMISSIONER CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH. OH, OH, GO AHEAD MISS COMMISSIONER FISH. UM, I WAS WONDERING IF WE HAD A D R C ON THIS, AND IF WE DID, COULD WE GET A REPORT OUT FROM ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS WHO WAS THERE? WE DID HAVE A D R C MYSELF AND, UM, MS. SINO, UH, THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED WERE, UM, WELL, THE PREVIOUS SUBMISSION HAD TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF DRAWINGS, AND SO THE, THE, UH, THE NUMBER OF COLUMNS ON THE STRUCTURE CHANGE BETWEEN THE TWO SETS. BUT I THINK THE, THE FINAL SUBMISSION HAS THE MINIMAL NUMBER OF COLUMNS, UH, PROPOSED. AND ALSO CLARIFICATION AS TO THE STRUCTURE OF THE, UH, AWNING. THERE IS CONCERN THAT THE, UM, CANTILEVER BEAMS, UH, IN THE RENDERINGS LOOKED, UH, QUITE HEAVY. AND, UM, ACTUALLY TO BE HONEST, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT HAS BEEN CLARIFIED THE SIZE OF THOSE BEAMS YET. UH, NO SIR. SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. WE'RE GONNA ENGAGE IN A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER. YOU KNOW, I, I DIDN'T WANNA SHOW SOMETHING TOO SMALL AND BE DISINGENUOUS. SO, YOU KNOW, AS AN ARCHITECT WE PROBABLY WENT A LITTLE LARGE . SURE. SO WE WOULD DEFINITELY TRY TO MINIMIZE 'EM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. OKAY. UH, AND I BELIEVE YOU EVEN MENTIONED IN THE D R C THAT EVEN TO LOOKING AT DIFFERENT SHAPE STEEL MEMBERS THAT MIGHT BE SMALLER IN UH, SECTION. YES, SIR. Y'ALL ARE WILLING TO LOOK AT THAT. UH, OTHER THINGS WE DISCUSSED WERE, UH, THE ACCESS, UH, THE PUBLIC ACCESS BETWEEN THE, THE DINING AREA AND THE, UH, BUILDING WALL AND, UM, HOW THAT WAS DEFINED. AND, AND AT ONE POINT THERE, UM, I THINK THE AREA SHOWN TO BE, UH, SAW CUT OUT FOR THE FOUNDATION, UH, WAS, UH, GREATER THAN WHAT'S CURRENTLY BEING PROPOSED. UM, MS. SAVINA, WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE DISCUSSED? WELL, BACK TO, UM, I GUESS AS IT RELATES TO STRUCTURAL MEMBER DIMENSIONS, THAT WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE STRUCTURE AS IT RELATES TO THE ADJACENT BUILDINGS, UM, WHERE THE RESTAURANT IS, BECAUSE THERE IS THAT NEED TO HAVE, UM, A PERCES RELATE TO THE MAIN, MAIN STRUCTURES AND ALSO TO CONFIRM, UM, THAT WE NOT ENCROACH MORE INTO THE PEDESTRIAN RIVER WALK RIGHT OF AWAY, WHICH IS PRIORITY THAN WHAT IS CURRENTLY BEING, BEING USED. AND I THINK THE PAVER BRICK IN A SOLDIER COURSE IS WHAT DEFINES IT. AND I THINK ONE OF YOUR DRAWINGS OR SOME OF YOUR DRAWINGS SHOW THE EXISTING CONDITION AS, FOR THE MOST PART, 90% OF THE TABLES SIT WITHIN THAT AREA. OH, THEY ALL, YEAH. YEAH. WHEREAS THE PAVING SHOWS, THE NEW PAVING SHOWS THAT IT GOES EASILY TO MAYBE THREE FEET BEYOND. AND SO THAT WAS A CONCERN IS KEEPING THE PRIORITY OF THE PEDESTRIAN WAY. OH YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. SO LIKE, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, THE, THE CITY ORDINANCES, YOU KNOW, FROM TABLE TO BUILDINGS HAS TO BE SIX FEET. AND WE, WE WOULD OBVIOUSLY HONOR THAT FOR SURE. SO MAY, IF I COULD SPEAK TO THE OTHER COMMENT, I MEAN, AGAIN, WE WANNA DISRUPT AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. THE ISSUE IS WE HAVE TERRIBLE SOILS IN THIS AREA. THEY'RE COMPLETELY CLAY. AND TO DO A CANTILEVER SYSTEM, WE HAVE TO DO A SIGNIFICANT FOOTING. AND WE CAN'T GO DOWN VERY DEEP BECAUSE OF THE WATER TABLE. WE ALSO CAN'T GO INTO THE RIVER WALK, UH, WALL. AND SO THIS IS AN EARLIER, UH, SECTION. WE, WE HAVE A MORE UPDATED DRAWING, BUT IT, IT, AGAIN, THAT FOOTING WILL BE MINIMIZED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S, IT MAY, AND WHAT WE SHOWED ON THE DRAWINGS WAS EXTENDING OUT TO THE EDGE OF THE CURRENT CANTILEVER. IF WE CAN REDUCE THAT BACK, WE CERTAINLY WILL. UH, AGAIN, THAT'S AN ISSUE WITH THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER THAT WE NEED TO, AS, AS AN WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT STEPS. AND, AND TO THAT, UM, PREDICAMENT, IT BEGINS TO EXPLAIN WHY THAT LIGHT TOUCH WITH THE APPURTENANCES ALONG THE RIVERWALK IS THE WAY IT IS. WHY THAT IS PART OF THE CHARACTER, [02:05:01] BECAUSE THE SOILS ARE UNSTABLE, THEY'RE IRREGULAR INCONSISTENT, MR. CHAIR. UM, YES, SIR. I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. UH, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THE, THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, YOU KNOW, IS, UH, AN IMPORTANT PART OF RIVER WORK, RIVER WALK HISTORY. UH, WE GET PROJECTS THAT ARE PART OF THE NEWER PART OF THE RIVER. RIGHT. AND, UH, IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE RIVER, YOU THINK THAT THEY WERE THERE FOREVER. RIGHT? RIGHT. WE THINK OF THE ROYAL STREET CROSSING AND THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS AND ITS HISTORY AND THE NIGHTLIFE OF DOWNTOWN AND THE RIVERWALK. IT COULD EASILY BE ARGUED THAT IF IT WASN'T FOR THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, THAT MAYBE NONE OF IT WOULD'VE HAPPENED, RIGHT? YEAH. BECAUSE IT'S YOUR OLD BUSINESSES THAT REALLY, UH, UH, REALLY MATTER SHOULD MATTER A LOT. RIGHT. BUT YOUR DAD'S BEEN DOWN THERE SINCE WHEN? Y 1975? WELL, YEAH. WELL, UH, HE OPENED THE ORAL STREET CROSSING. WELL, AND, AND IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE AWNING THAT'S PRE THAT, THAT IS ORIGINAL, NEVER REALLY WORKED BECAUSE EVERY TIME IT RAINS, UH, YOU CAN'T USE THE AREA BECAUSE THERE, THERE, THERE ARE FOR, FOR PITCHED OR, OR THEY'RE, THEY'RE HIP ROOFS. RIGHT. SO IT'S NEVER REALLY MADE SENSE AND IT'S NEVER REALLY, REALLY, REALLY WORKED, I WOULD SAY. RIGHT. UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE, TO THE STRUCTURAL MEMBERS, UM, I'M SURE THAT, THAT YOU'LL USE WHATEVER IT IS THAT IS NECESSARY, RIGHT. PROVIDED THAT IT CANTILEVER AND ALL THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR, FOR, FOR THE COMMISSION. WHAT STANDS OUT TO ME THAT I THINK IS A MISSED OPPORTUNITY TO PUSH Y'ALL IN A DIRECTION OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOUR BUILDING AND WHAT HASN'T BEEN PRODUCED YET, BUT MOST DEFINITELY WILL BE PRODUCED, IS THE GRAPHIC THAT IS ON THE TOP AS PROPOSED THAT IF THAT'S NOT A PLACEHOLDER, BUT IF THAT'S A LITERAL, UM, PRESENTATION OF THE STYLE OF, OF ARTISTIC, UM, UM, EXPRESSION, I THINK THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU SHOULD TAKE IT A, A STEP FURTHER FOR, FOR THAT FLAG OR THAT GRAPHIC TO BE MUCH MORE SENSITIVE TO THE, THE BEAUTIFUL BUILDING THAT IT'S RELATED TO. AND, AND IT SEEMS LIKE TO THE, TO THE, TO THE, YOU KNOW, WITH RESPECT TO DOABILITY, IT'S SOMETHING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO SEND OUT TO BE PRINTED, RIGHT? YES. AND THAT YOU CAN REALLY PRINT ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT. IT, IT, IT LACKS KIND OF AN ORGANIC RELATIONSHIP TO THE RIVER AND TO THE BUILDING. AND WITH RESPECT TO, UM, OBVIOUSLY IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT A FAR STEP AWAY FROM WHAT'S THERE NOW. RIGHT. BUT IN A WAY TOO WRONGS DON'T MAKE IT. RIGHT. RIGHT. AND PROACTIVELY SAYING THAT, THAT IT WOULD BE GREAT TO PUSH YOU IN A DIRECTION TO CONSIDER THE DESIGN OF THOSE, OF THE GRAPHIC ON THAT AWNING TO BE MORE SENSITIVE AND MORE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT WORD WOULD BE, MONICA. UM, YOU, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT TEXAS FLAGS THAT EXIST, THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU CAN EXPRESS THAT SAME IDEA, UH, WHETHER THEY'RE, WHETHER THEY'RE LESS RIGID, MORE ORGANIC IN TERMS OF THE, THE, THE, THE OVERALL, UH, UM, AESTHETIC. AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO, I, I NOTICED THAT THERE'S A FORMAL TEXAS STAR AND A VERY CLEAR 60 DEGREE ANGLE, UM, BRACING THAT IN THAT DESIGN, IF, IF THERE WASN'T A WAY, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOUR BUDGET IS, IF YOU'RE IN THAT PHASE OF, OF SAYING WHAT YOU CAN SPEND, THAT MAYBE THAT DESIGN OF THAT 45 AND THAT STAR BE A STEP FURTHER IN CONNECTING THE BUILDING QUALITY TO THAT ASSEMBLAGE QUALITY. BECAUSE ONCE YOU DO IT, YOU, TO ME, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE EXISTING AESTHETIC THAT IS REALLY TOO RIGID FOR THAT BUILDING. AND THIS, THAT REMAINS A LITTLE TOO RIGID. IT'S, IT'S NOT DEALING WITH THE, I THINK YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR FLOOR IS, IS, IS, YOU KNOW, NOT AN ISSUE. UM, UM, YOU'RE NOT AFFECTING THE TRAFFIC ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT WAS. UH, UH, I I, I'M HEARING FROM THE SPIRIT OF THE, OF THE COMMISSION THAT THAT IS GENERALLY, ESPECIALLY THROUGH THE D R C KIND OF ACCEPTABLE, BUT FOR, FOR MY, IN, IN BEING A FAN OF THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, THAT IF I HAD MY WISH AS AN OLD RIVER WALKER THAT YOU WOULD GET US ALL USE YOUR ARCHITECTURAL OPPORTUNITY TO GET US ALL A LITTLE CLOSER TO WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN THERE. BECAUSE WHEN YOU COME DOWN FROM THAT, THAT, THAT, UH, BRIDGE, Y'ALL ARE PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF ACCESS IN THE ENTIRE RIVER [02:10:01] WALK. SO YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UM, YOU KNOW, MOVE THIS SIMPLE ASSEMBLAGE A LITTLE FURTHER IN THE WRT IRON DIRECTION A LITTLE FURTHER IN THE, YOU KNOW, TEXAS IS A RICH HISTORY IN WR IRON. RIGHT. USE SOME DETAILS AND WORK ON THAT TEXAS FLAG GRAPHIC JUST A LITTLE BIT. THANK YOU, SIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH AGAIN. YES, SIR. I HAD ONE MORE FOLLOW UP QUESTION. UM, AFTER THE REPORT, THE DRAWINGS ARE SHOWING, UM, A WIDE FLANGE SPINE SECTION THAT IS NOT ILLUSTRATED IN THE RENDERING AT THE TOP OF THE COLUMNS RUNNING ALONG THE RIVER RIVERWALK. HAS THAT BEEN ELIMINATED ON THE IMAGE TO THE LEFT WHERE WE CAN SEE THE CANTILEVER AND THE BRACKET? SO THAT WIDE FLANGE THAT'S SHOWN TO THE LEFT OF THE STAR? YES. IN SPEAKING TO THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, AGAIN, JUST IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD WANNA MAKE THAT A SOLID CONNECTION BETWEEN THE CANTILEVER AND THE COLUMN AND ELIMINATE THAT BEAM THAT'S RUNNING DOWN THE LENGTH OF THE RIVER. OKAY. AND, AND REALLY THE, THE DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENT, UH, OF A HEAVY MEMBER IS BECAUSE OF THE DEGREE OF THE CANTILEVER. IS THERE A POSSIBILITY TO MOVE THOSE COLUMNS CLOSER INTO THE FOOTPRINT OF THE TABLES TO REDUCE THOSE PROFILES? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IMPACT, UM, THAT MIGHT HAVE ON THE SCALE OF THOSE MEMBERS? I THINK, I THINK THE SCALE OF THE MEMBERS IS, IS ONE OF MY CONCERNS. MM-HMM. AND NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING THE LIGHT, THE LIGHTNESS THAT THAT COULD READ AS, OR THE SCALE OF THAT IS A LITTLE BIT A CONCERN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YEAH. SO AGAIN, IF, IF WE MOVE 'EM REALLY ANY FURTHER TOWARDS THE PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY, WE HAVE TABLES THAT, YOU KNOW, THEN WOULD BE IN CONFLICT WITH THE COLUMNS. AND SO AGAIN, THE IDEA IS TO PUSH 'EM AS FAR AS WE CAN TOWARDS THE RIVER, UH, TO ALLOW FOR THE WIDEST PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY THAT WE CAN AND STILL ACCOMMODATE THE TABLES. BUT AGAIN, WE CERTAINLY WANNA MAKE 'EM AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE. THAT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, TO BE FRANK, LESS COSTLY, UM, AND LESS FOUNDATION. SO AGAIN, THE NEXT STEP, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL IDEA, UH, THE NEXT STEP IS THEN TO TAKE IT TO A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, REALLY WORK THROUGH THE DETAILS, YOU KNOW, FINESSE IT AND THEN COME BACK IN. MR. CHAIRMAN, JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, MR. CARPENTER HERE. UM, FIRST OF ALL, UH, ACTUALLY A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND, AND MAYBE A STATEMENT NOT IN THAT ORDER. UH, I THINK IN GENERAL, I'M, I'M PRETTY SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING HERE. I THINK THERE, IT'S NICE TO HAVE A, A REFRESH OCCASIONALLY, UM, AND STILL RETAIN BRAND IDENTITY THERE. UM, UH, SO I, I THINK I'M GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THIS BECAUSE IT REDU REDUCES THE CLUTTER AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS ANTICIPATION OF ALL THE COUTRE MOUNTS THAT COME WITH OUTDOOR SEATING, THE FANS AND THE HEATERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. GETTING INTEGRATED AS A, AS A SINGLE DESIGN RATHER THAN AN AFTER FACT AFTERTHOUGHT. UH, THAT'S, THAT'S PUT THERE. UM, JUST A COUPLE OF SPECIFIC QUESTIONS THOUGH. UM, WHAT ARE YOU, AND I KNOW THIS IS CONCEPTUAL LEVEL, BUT WHAT ARE YOU THINKING THE MATERIAL OF THE CANOPY IS GOING TO BE COMPOSED OF? 'CAUSE IT, IT, IT CLEARLY ISN'T LIKE FABRIC. IT'S NOT LIKE A, LIKE A, UH, LIKE AN UMBRELLA TYPE OF MATERIAL. IT SEEMS TO HAVE SOME RIGIDITY TO IT. IS IT TRANSLUCENT? IS IT, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU, WHAT ARE YOU IMAGINING? YEAH, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT SIMILAR FABRIC TO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, UH, MORE OF A TRANSLUCENT FABRIC THAN WHAT IS THERE NOW. IT'D BE A PRINTED FABRIC THAT, WITH THE LIGHTING UNDERNEATH IT AGAIN, THAT GLOW WOULD COME THROUGH THE FABRIC AS WELL. AND THEN WE HAVE A HORIZONTAL MEMBERS, WHICH ARE, UH, THE OUTRIGGERS, WHICH ARE CALLED OUT IN THE DRAWING. THAT WOULD BE THE FRAME FOR EACH ONE OF THE AWNINGS. BUT THE AWNINGS THEMSELVES. SO EVEN HAVE A STIFFNESS TO THEM. YES. 'CAUSE THEY'RE LIKE PROJECTING OVER. SO DO THEY HAVE AN INTERNAL FRAME TO THEM THAT'S SO THEY WOULD BE, YEAH. SO THERE WOULD BE A FRAME FOR THE AWNINGS THEMSELVES THAT WOULD BE TIED INTO THE OUTRIGGERS COMMISSIONER. THIS IS NOT CONCEPTUAL. THIS IS A C O A FINAL WELL, THE, THE AGENDA MENTIONS A, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, BUT THE APPLICANT HAS, UH, REQUEST THAT A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WHICH WE CAN CONSIDER. I GUESS THIS WAS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S JUST MISCOMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND STAFF. SO, UM, ANY, THE MOTION CAN'T BE MADE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AS INDICATED BY THE APPLICANT. YEAH. AND, AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE, SINCE THERE'S STILL WORK TO BE DONE WITH A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER THAT'S GONNA HAVE AN AESTHETIC, UH, IMPACT HERE. BUT I APPRECIATE THAT. HEY, YOU KNOW, THIS MAY, THIS MAY NOT. YEAH, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WHAT IS PUBLISHED IS, IS IMPORTANT. UM, ANOTHER QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU IS, IS THIS RESULTING IN ACTUALLY MORE SEATING FOR YOU? I MEAN MORE, [02:15:01] MORE BOTTOMS AND CHAIRS, OR IS THIS PRETTY MUCH A, AN EQUIVALENT, UH, TO WHAT YOU HAVE THERE? UH, THE EDICT WAS TO USE EVERY ONE OF THESE TABLES AND CHAIRS THAT WE HAVE AND NOT, NOT ONE MORE CHAIR, NOT ONE MORE TABLE. IT'D ACTUALLY BE THE EXISTING TABLES AND CHAIRS BE REUSED. THE RENDERINGS ARE INDICATING SOMETHING I THINK DIFFERENT FROM WHAT'S IN THE PLANS. WHAT ARE YOU IMAGINING THEN THAT ONCE YOU CUT IN TO CREATE YOUR, UH, YOUR CAN LEADER FOOTINGS, WHAT IS THE PUTBACK? ARE YOU PUTTING CONCRETE OR WHAT, AND, AND DESCRIBE THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL. 'CAUSE THERE, THERE SEEMS TO BE A LITTLE BIT IN INCONSISTENCY IN THE INFORMATION I HAVE HERE. YEAH. SO, UH, WE WERE INTENDING TO COME BACK WITH A, FRANKLY NOT A EXPOSED AGGREGATE FINISH BECAUSE UNDERNEATH TABLES ONE, IT'S HARD FOR THE TABLES TO MOVE OR CHAIRS TO MOVE ON. THAT CLEANLINESS IS AN ISSUE. UH, SO WE'RE LOOKING TO DO A MATERIAL THAT WAS CONGRUENT WITH THE RIVERWALK. IT WOULD BE ALL CONCRETE. UM, OBVIOUSLY THAT WOULD BE A STRUCTURAL ITEM AND NOT A TOPPING SLAB POURED AFTER IT. AND SO THAT'S GONNA BE A PRETTY DEEP AND SIZABLE FOOTING, UH, FOR THAT CANTILEVER. AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A CONCRETE PRODUCT, WHETHER THAT'S A BURNISHED, UH, FINISH. AGAIN, THERE'S A EXAMPLE OF JUST RIGHT DOWN THE WAY HERE OF A BURNISH CONCRETE THAT IS EX LOOKS LIKE EXPOSED CONCRETE, BUT IT'S SMOOTH. UM, AND AGAIN, A TEXTURAL CHANGE FROM THE RIVER WALK TO THE DINING AREA IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO. BUT IT WOULD BE FLUSHED WITH, WITH THE, UH, PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY. AND THEN THE, ON PART OF THAT, THERE IS AN EXISTING, UH, WALL THAT, UH, IS STONE OF THE RIVER WALK WALL ON ONE SECTION. THE NEXT SECTION ACTUALLY, THEY DID A CONCRETE OVERLAY WHERE THEY POURED OVER IT. SO THAT STRIP WOULD BE CUT AND LEFT. SO ANYTHING ALONG THAT WALL WOULD BE, WOULD REMAIN, WE WOULD DO A CUT ALONG THE WALL SO WE'RE NOT GETTING INTO THE WALL OF THE RIVERWALK. AND THEN, UM, SO YEAH, THIS, SO, SO AS MUCH AS THE EXISTING, UM, WALKWAY THAT WOULD REMAIN AND THEN THE NEW AREA WOULD BE FOR THE FOOTING. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR EX DESCRIBING THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE THING I WOULD ENCOURAGE IN, IN WHATEVER MOTION IS MADE HERE IS THAT, UM, IN ORDER TO GIVE YOU THE LATITUDE TO EXPLORE SOME IDEAS THAT, THAT, UH, THAT, UH, PERHAPS YOU, YOU DO A LITTLE BIT OF A SURVEY OF SOME OF THE NON-EXPOSED AGGREGATE CONCRETE TREATMENTS THAT ARE THERE ON THE RIVERWALK AND FIND SOMETHING THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE HAMAN HIMSELF HAD THOSE SORT OF EMBOSSED TRO FOIL PANELS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THERE'S A LOT, UH, THERE'S A LOT TO GO WITH THERE. AND RATHER THAN US PARTICULARLY DICTATE WHAT, WHAT YOU GO, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE SOLUTION IS, BUT JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO KINDA LOOK CONTEXTUALLY WITH WHAT CONCRETE TREATMENTS ARE ALREADY THERE AND MAYBE FIND YOUR SOLUTION, YOU KNOW, INVENTIVELY, UH, BY ADAPTING WHAT'S THERE TO YOUR SITUATION. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. P UH, COMMISSIONER LFO? YES, YES. COMMISSIONER LAO. UH, I'M PRETTY MUCH IN AGREEMENT WITH STAFF'S COMMENTS, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS. I THINK THE, UH, WHATEVER NEW STRUCTURE IS PROPOSED, THE FRAMING NEEDS TO BE MUCH LIGHTER THAN WHAT IS SHOWN. AND I, I, UM, THINK THE EXPOSED AGGREGATE PAVING DEFINITELY SHOULD REMAIN. IT'S, IT'S MORE OF A DISTINCTIVE, UH, ELEMENT OF THE RIVER WALK THAN, UH, PLAIN BROOM FINISHED CONCRETE. AND I'D LIKE TO THROW OUT ONE OTHER IDEA. I, I WISH, UH, THE APPLICANT HAD THOUGHT ABOUT PICKING UP ON THE CURVED PORTION OF YOUR BUILDING ON THE CORNER AND DOING SOMETHING MORE IN A CIRCULAR MOTIF FOR YOUR, YOUR NEW CANOPIES. IT'S JUST A, JUST A THOUGHT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GROOVE. YES, AND I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER UNE. I WAS GONNA GO THERE. I THINK THAT, UM, I MEAN, ONE OF THE CLARIFICATION ON THE CONCEPTUAL, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE'RE THERE. I GUESS THE CONCEPTUAL WOULD JUST BE A MOTION TO BE OPEN TO SEE PROPOSALS TO CHANGE SOMETHING. A STRUCTURE'S BEEN THERE SINCE THE 1970S. BUT, UM, I DO AGREE WITH STAFF. I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE THE CANOPY OR THE STRUCTURE. I AGREE IT, I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH BEING PERMANENT, BUT IT SHOULD REFLECT MORE AN UMBRELLA STYLE, SMALLER CLUTTER CLUSTER OF PROTECT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CALL, I MEAN, OF SUN PROTECTION. AND MAYBE YES, I, ON THE, ON THE ONE WHERE YOU HAVE THAT FOUR TABLES IN A CIRCULAR, I MEAN, YOUR CAN, YOUR, YOUR CANOPIES ARE NOT CIRCULAR. THEY, TROY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE CLUSTERS OF SMALL, UM, SQUARES, [02:20:01] BUT EVERYBODY ELSE IS CIRCULAR ON THE REAR WALK. AND MAYBE YOU CAN KIND OF ACTUALLY WORK WITH THAT. UM, I WOULDN'T MINIMIZE THE, UH, SIZE OF THE, OF THE CANOPIES. AND I AGREE WITH STAFF ON THE CONCRETE CHANGE. I, I DON'T SEE THE NEED. AND ACTUALLY THE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU SAY MORE COMMON ON THE REAR WALK OR THE CONCRETE. WELL, THERE MAY BE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, BUT I THINK THE PEBBLE IS WHAT'S MOSTLY FOUND ON THE REAR WALK, IF I COULD SPEAK TO THAT. SO WHERE THE CURVE IS, WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE, THE STRUCTURE IS CURVED, AND THEN WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, RECTANGULAR AWNINGS THAT ARE FOLLOWING THAT, THAT CURVE. IN TERMS OF THE, THE FLOOR FINISH, AGAIN, WE'RE, AND AND TO CLARIFY, WE ARE LOOKING FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. SO WE KNOW WE'RE NOT THERE YET. THIS IS THE CONCEPT. UM, BUT BEFORE WE MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP, WHICH IS WHAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, WE NEED TO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S GONNA BE ACCEPTED AND NOT, UM, DEFINITELY THE FLOOR FINISH. THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN, WE CAN STUDY, WE CAN LOOK AT, THERE'S SOME EXISTING PATTERNS THAT, LIKE YOU SAID, ARE, ARE ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS SAID WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, A COMBINATION OF DIFFERENT MATERIALS THAT I THINK WE COULD, YOU KNOW, ENHANCE THE PROJECT WITH CERTAINLY SO THAT WE'RE VERY OPEN TO THAT. UM, IN TERMS OF THE SIZE OF THE AWNINGS, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE, WE'RE DOWN THERE JUST THIS LAST WEEK WITH EDWARD, AND WE HAD AN ONSITE MEETING. WE HAD A BRIEF SHOWER. EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT WAS OUTSIDE HAD TO RUN INSIDE, AND IT LASTED MAYBE 10 MINUTES, AND EVERY ONE OF THE TABLES WAS DRIPPING WET. AND SO WE HAVE TO, FOR THIS PROJECT, TO PROCEED AND BE SUCCESSFUL. AND ACTUALLY, FRANKLY, THE NEED IS TO BE ABLE TO COVER THESE TABLES SO THAT A BRIEF SHOWER, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO WRECK EVERYTHING, TAKE PEOPLE INSIDE BECAUSE THEY GOT A FULL HOUSE INSIDE. YOU KNOW, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT. UM, SO TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE AWNINGS, UH, WOULD BE DIFFICULT, FRANKLY. MR. CHAIR, COULD I ASK STAFF TO GO TO THE, THE IMAGE OF WHAT'S THERE TODAY? UH, THERE, YEAH, I THINK THAT, CAN YOU ZOOM IN ON THAT BOTTOM PICTURE? I THINK, I THINK TO, TO YOUR POINT, SIR, I THINK THAT PICTURE THERE SHOWS, UM, IT, IT TELLS A LOT OF, A LOT OF, UM, IT GIVES A LOT OF INFORMATION. NOW I THINK IT'S REASONABLE TO CHARACTERIZE THIS AS A CONTINUOUS AWNING. THE COLUMNS ARE STAGGERED SO AS TO GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF, UH, SEPARATE CANOPIES. BUT THE REALITY IS, IT'S, IT'S ONE UNIT THAT WAS DESIGNED THAT PARTICULAR WAY. AND WITH RESPECT TO THE EXISTING AESTHETIC ON THE RIVER, I THINK THOSE AESTHETICS ARE, ARE REALLY KIND OF, UM, UM, SECONDARY TO, TO THIS AESTHETIC, BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA PROBABLY FIND THAT THIS AESTHETIC IS OLDER THAN THEY ARE. SO THEY'RE CARRYING WITH THEM SOME HISTORY, RIGHT? AND NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT KIND OF UP UPGRADING OR, OR, OR, OR ADDRESSING DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT ISSUES. BECAUSE AT A TIME WHEN IT RAINED A LOT OVER THERE, THE RIVER USED TO FLOOD TOO, RIGHT? SO NOW YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, OF, OF, UH, THE LACK OF FLOODING. BUT NOW YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION WHERE IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT FLOODS OR NOT, YOUR SEATS GET WET, RIGHT? SO I, I THINK THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S A, UM, VESTED, UM, UM, I DON'T WANNA SAY RULE, BUT A CONTINUITY OF THIS CONTINUOUS CANOPY, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE PRESENTING A CONTINUOUS CANOPY. I THINK THE, THE THING TO GO AWAY WITH AS YOU LEAVE FOR A CONCEPTUAL IS, UH, JUST INTERPRETING, AND I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, BUT JUST INTERPRETING THAT THE PRESENTATION, THE PROPOSAL IS NOT AESTHETICALLY PLEASING, RIGHT? SO, JUST TO TAKE COMMISSIONER LFO'S COMMENTS AND THE CURVE, I THINK YOU KIND OF LEAVE YOURSELF OPEN TO THE CRITICISMS BECAUSE THE, THE PROPOSAL'S SO GENERIC, RIGHT? I THINK IT WOULD BE, AND IT'S KIND OF THE, THE, UM, THE KIND OF THE A CASUALTY OF DOING ANIMATION, BECAUSE THEN YOU KINDA SHOW TOO MUCH, RIGHT? UM, BUT I THINK THE REAL OPPORTUNITY IS TO TAKE WHAT YOU'VE PRESENTED AND, AND THEN COME BACK WITH SOMETHING THAT IS ADDRESSING, UM, THE SENSITIVITY TO THE ARCHITECTURE AND THE RIVER AROUND IT. WHICH MEANS THAT IT SHOULD GO FROM BEING A RIGID PRESENTATION TO BEING SOMETHING THAT PRESENTS IT AS A BEAUTIFUL OBJECT, UH, THAT, THAT IS PLEASING TO THE EYE AND PLEASING TO THE EXPERIENCE WALKING DOWN THAT IMPORTANT PART OF THE RIVER. IN THE END, I THINK YOU, YOU MAY MEET WITH, WITH, WITH BETTER, UM, RECEPTION HERE AT THE LEVEL OF A, OF A COMMISSION, RIGHT? BUT AT THE OTHER END, I THINK [02:25:01] THAT IT PRETTY GIVES YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY CAPITALIZE ON YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE YOUR CUSTOMER, YOU KNOW, REALLY A REALLY MORE IN-DEPTH, UH, EXPERIENCE OF, UM, THE HISTORIC QUALITIES, RIGHT, OF, OF THE RIVER. THAT IT, IT SETS THE BAR UP ON WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WANT TO DO, RIGHT? SO I, I, I MEAN, I, I THINK THE COMMENTS OF KIND OF CIRCULAR SOMETHING, RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT THE WEIGHTS ARE TOO HEAVY, UM, BUT I ALSO WOULD WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO SEE SOME OF THE, IF NOT JUST THE HISTORIC WROUGHT IRON WORK THAT'S DOWN THERE, BUT THE NEW STUFF THAT IS GOING IN THAT HAS HAD TO, UM, RESPOND TO THE SAME CRITICISMS. 'CAUSE THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THINGS THAT STILL HAVE TO RESPOND TO A, UM, AN AESTHETIC THAT IS CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE RIVER, RIGHT? UM, I THINK GENERALLY IT, IT'S, IT'S, UM, ACCEPTED THAT THERE'S AN IMPROVEMENT THAT'LL OCCUR. I DON'T THINK IT'S A BAD THING. UM, UH, TO THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS COMMISSIONER FISH, SIR. COMMISSIONER FISH. SO I'M KIND OF HEARING ACROSS THE COMMISSION TWO DIFFERENT, TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF THOUGHTS RELATED TO THIS. MY, MY FEELING IS I'M GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS CONCEPTUALLY I HAVE TWO, I'M, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF IT CONCEPTUALLY BECAUSE OF THE, THE, THE WAY THAT THIS NEW CONTINUOUS AWNING, UH, HAS A STAGGER. IT BREAKS, ITS, IT BREAKS DOWN THE MASS WITH THIS PUSH PULL. UM, I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE CANTILEVER, UH, PER SE. THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT. UM, CONCERN OF THE, I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE WEIGHT OF THE STEEL. I THINK THAT SHOULD BE LIGHTER AND IT MAY BE ABLE TO BE LIGHTER. AND I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ALTERNATE MATERIALS BEING PROPOSED FOR, UH, THE, THE, THE FLOOR FINISH OR THE REPLACED, THE REPLACED, UH, CONCRETE THERE. UH, BOTH OF WHICH I THINK CAN BE MANAGED WITH A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. UM, SO I THINK THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION TO GIVE THE APPLICANT SOME DIRECTION HERE, UM, IS, IS TO MOVE, TO MOVE THIS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UH, WITH THE NOTE OF THOSE TWO CONCERNS. AND, UH, WE'LL SEE IF THERE'S SUFFICIENT SUPPORT ON THE COMMISSION HERE TODAY FOR THAT DIRECTION TO CONTINUE. IF THERE, IF THERE ISN'T SUPPORT FOR THAT, THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND, UH, A D R C TO, TO TRY TO, TO TRY TO FIND, UH, GREATER SUPPORT ACROSS THIS COMMISSION. SO, UM, I'LL MOVE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. I'LL SECOND WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND STANCE. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. SUM? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP? AYE. BE AYE. LAO NAY. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AND WE, UM, IF YOU WANT TO COME BACK FOR A D R C AS YOU DEVELOP YOUR, UH, CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS, UH, JUST FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT TO STAFF. WILL DO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [16. Address/Description: 126 POTOMAC ST HDRC Case No.: 2021410 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Felix Ziga/Ziga Architecture Studio PLLC Request: Construction of a 2story residential structure with a detached accessory structure City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16, H D R C, CASE NUMBER TWENTY TWENTY ONE FOUR TEN ONE TWENTY SIX POTOMAC. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO-STORY SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT LOT AT 1 26 POTOMAC. THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO PROPOSED TO CONSTRUCT A DETACHED REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. THIS LOT IS LOCATED WITHIN THE DIGNITY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH T WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE FRONT SETBACK BE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THAT OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE AT 1 22 POTOMAC. AND THAT FIELD VERIFICATION BE REQUIRED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A C O A IS NOTED IN FINDING D TWO. THAT BOARD AND BATTEN SIDING FEATURE SMOOTH FINISH BOARDS THAT ARE 12 INCHES WIDE AND BATTENS THAT ARE ONE AND A HALF INCH AND WIDTH. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE PROPOSED STANDING SEA METAL ROOF FEATURE SMOOTH PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES IN WIDTH SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES IN HIGH TO STANDARD GAL FINISH, AND A CRIP AND A CRIMPED RIDGE SEAM. A LOW PROFILE RIDGE CAP MAY BE USED FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. THREE, THAT THE PROPOSED WOOD WINDOWS THAT HIT STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS AS NOTED IN FINDINGS J OR EXCUSE ME, IN FINDING J AND IN THE APPLICABLE CITATIONS FOUR, THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSED FENESTRATION PROFILES THAT FEATURE INDIVIDUAL WINDOWS WITH OPERABLE SASHES HALF SIZE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT FACADE SHOULD BE INCREASED IN SIZE AND FIXED WINDOWS SHOULD BE INCREASED IN SIZE AND FEATURE IN OPERABLE SASH. AND FIVE, THAT ALL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED FROM VIEW, FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UM, THERE'S A CASE COMMON IN REGARDS TO THE INSPEC REQUIREMENT FOR AN INSPECTION FOR A SET FOUNDATION [02:30:01] SETBACK, AS WELL AS A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF INSPECTION. THE APPLICANT, FELIX ZIGA IS HERE, AND THE PROPERTY OWNER, BRETT HENKE WILL JOIN VIRTUALLY. OH, JUST TURN IT OFF FROM YOUR EYES. THANKS EDWARD. UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS FELIX EGA. I'M THE ARCHITECT ON THE PROJECT. UM, WE, THIS PROJECT IS A VERY STRAIGHTFORWARD APPLICATION. IT'S ONE HOME ON ONE LOT, WHICH IS NICE FOR A CHANGE. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING TWO STORIES. UM, WE RECENTLY HAD PREVIOUSLY APPROVED NEW CONSTRUCTION, UH, AT THE HARD CORNER, UM, FACING PINE STREET. UM, SO WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE, UM, BOTH A TRANSITION TO THE REST OF THE BLOCK FACE, UM, WHILE MEETING THE PROGRAMMATIC NEEDS OF OUR HOMEOWNER CLIENT. UM, WE HAD MET WITH THE D R C AND ADDRESSED SOME OF THE CONCERNS. ORIGINALLY, THE HOMEOWNER WAS PURSUING AN ATTACHED GARAGE. UH, WE DID HEAR THE COMMENTS FROM THE D R C AND, UM, WE WERE ABLE TO, UM, MAKE SOME CHANGES TO THE PLAN TO ALL, UH, ACCOMMODATE A DETACHED, UH, CARPORT. UM, WHICH FURTHER ALLOWED US TO PUSH THE, UM, HOME FURTHER BACK AND ENSURE COMPLIANCE WITH, UH, STIPULATION ONE. IN REGARDS TO THE STIPULATIONS, WE AGREE WITH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM EXCEPT, UH, STIPULATION FIVE. UH, REGARDING THE FENESTRATION PATTERN, UM, REALLY THE, THE ONLY RHYME OR REASON OR OR THOUGHT PROCESS THERE, UM, IF YOU CAN GO TO THAT FRONT RENDERING, EDWARD, UM, BECAUSE WE HAVE THAT RAILING, UM, AND THE USE OF THE, THE SPACE BEHIND THAT IS A HOME OFFICE. WE WANTED TO PROVIDE AS MUCH FLEXIBILITY TO THE OWNER IN TERMS OF USABLE SPACE. UM, YOU KNOW, THE RAILING, IF WE HAVE THOSE WINDOWS COME DOWN, UM, TO TWO FOOT SILLS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA BE BLOCKED BY A RAILING. UM, SO I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF ARGUING OR, OR DISCUSSING, UM, SOMETHING THAT TO ME IS A MOOT POINT. UM, OTHER THAN THAT, UM, YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE PURSUING SOME, SOME CONTEMPORARY DETAILS AND, BUT WE THINK THEY'RE SOFT ENOUGH TO NOT BE TOO LOUD IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. THANK YOU. UH, DO WE HAVE CITIZEN COMMENTS? WE DO HAVE A VOICEMAIL. GOOD AFTERNOON. YOU DON'T NEED TO RESHARE EDWARD. YOU CAN JUST PLAY IT. COMMISSIONERS. I'M SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 NORTH PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING OUR COMMENTS ON H D R CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH FOUR TEN ONE TWENTY SIX POTOMAC STREET. WE DO NOT SUPPORT STAT'S RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL, BUT WE DO SUPPORT STATS STIPULATIONS. FURTHERMORE, THE USE OF STEEL I BEAMS WITH WOOD IN FILL AND STEEL AND WOOD RAILINGS IN THE HOME AND CARPORT IS INAPPROPRIATE AND IS NOT A MATERIAL OR APPLICATION TRADITIONALLY USED FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE USE OF FLAT AWNINGS WITH STEEL ANGLE IRON SUPPORTS IS INAPPROPRIATE AND IT'S NOT A MATERIAL TO USE. TRADITIONALLY IN RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THE USE OF BLACK GRAVEL BETWEEN THE RIBBON STRIP DRIVEWAY. THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE AND IS ROUTINELY, ROUTINELY REJECTED BY THIS COMMISSION. THE TWO STORY MASKING IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THIS BLOCK, COMPRISED EXCLUSIVELY OF ONE STORY HOMES. THE PORCH WINDOWS ON THE FRONT FACADE ARE TOO SMALL AND NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE FENESTRATION PATTERNS NORMALLY FOUND IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT HAS A PICTURE OF A JELLED WHEN ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD WINDOW, BUT NO WINDOW SCHEDULED TO SHOW DIMENSIONS ALARMINGLY ALARMINGLY. THE DRAWINGS SHOW A JELLED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW OR OWNER APPROVED EQUAL. THIS EFFECTIVELY REPLACES THE GUIDELINES WITH THE PREFERENCE OF THE OWNER AND SHOULD NOT BE APPROVED. THE DRAWING ALSO CALLS FOR THE ALARM ALUMINUM CLADDING TO BE CHESTNUT BRONZE, A METALLIC COLOR NOT RECOMMENDED. AS NOTED BY STAFF IN THIS APPLICATION, WE RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT EITHER PROVIDE COMPLETE WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS IN THE APPLICATION FOR APPROVAL OR THAT STAFF SCHEDULE A PRE WINDOW INSTALLATION INSPECTION. THANK YOU. SO, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? MR. CHAIR? YES, MS. GRU, THIS IS COMMISSIONER GRU. I AGREE WITH STAFF COMMENTS AND [02:35:01] I ACTUALLY, I THINK THAT STAFF, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FENESTRATION, IT'S NOT ONLY THE TOP WINDOWS, IT'S ALSO THE ONE BY THE FRONT DOOR AND THEN THE SWIMMER AND THE WINDOWS IN THE BACK. UM, WHAT'S YOUR HEIGHT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND THE OTHER PROPERTY NEXT TO IT? WE'D HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK, BUT IT'S APPROXIMATELY TWO TO THREE FEET. YEAH. SO YOU'RE ALREADY THERE. YOU ARE HIGHER THAN WHAT WE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, WHICH WHERE WE ACTUALLY ALSO HAD TO GO TO OUR COMPROMISE AND WE NEVER DISCUSSED THE HEIGHT ON THE PREVIOUS ONES. UM, THE ONE STORY, UM, ABOVE THE, UM, PREDOMINANT IS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES. YEAH. BUT I WOULD JUST PROBABLY, I WOULD WANNA SEE THE HEIGHT FINAL HEIGHTS BEFORE APPROVING, BECAUSE THE ONE, THE NEW CONSTRUCTION NEXT TO THIS TWO STORY AND THE REST OF THE BLOCK IS ONE STORY. RIGHT. BUT AGAIN, WE'RE WITHIN HIS STORY DESIGN GUIDELINES. THAT'S WHY IT WASN'T A SMALL COMMENT. SO, UM, AND THEN YOU ALSO TALK ABOUT LOT COVERAGE, AND I WOULD LIKE, I WHAT WERE YOUR COMMENTS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMENTS? I AGREE WITH THAT. UM, I DIDN'T SEE THE, THE DETAILS ON THE GRAVEL. IS THAT TO MAKE IT PERMEABLE AND LESS LOT COVERAGE OR HOW IS THAT WORKING OUT? BECAUSE IF YOU PUT AN AWNING ON THAT DRIVEWAY, THEN YOU'RE NOT MAKING IT PERMEABLE. AND THAT WOULD ADD TO THE LOT COVERAGE PERCENTAGE. UM, WE DO NOT HAVE AN AWNING OVER THE DRIVEWAY. UM, WE WERE PROPOSING A RIBBON DRIVEWAY TO, UM, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, IT WAS TO INCREASE, UM, UH, PERVIOUS, UM, OR REDUCE IMPERVIOUS MATERIAL ON THE SITE. OKAY. SO THE CARPORT IS YOU HAVE A AT THE, AT THE REAR, BUT YOU HAVE A TURN, SO YOU'RE DOING RIBBON AND THEN WHAT'S, YOU HAVE A CONCRETE AREA WHERE YOU'RE DOING THE TURN? YES, MA'AM. THAT, THAT IS ALL CONCRETE BECAUSE, UM, WHEN YOU USE ANY TYPE OF PERVIOUS MATERIAL WHERE THE WHEELS TURN, THAT TENDS TO GET PUSHED AROUND BY AND WASHED AWAY, IS THAT COUNTED IN YOUR LOT COVERAGE? UM, WE USE BUILDING FOOTPRINT AREA. YEAH. SO THE GUIDELINES CALL FOR LOT COVERAGE OF IMPERVIOUS AREA, AND YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT? UH, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT. UM, IT WAS, WE'VE DISCUSSED MANY TIMES. UM, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT, MA'AM. UM, WE ALL, WE'VE ALWAYS SHOWN BUILDING FOOTPRINT AREA ON ALL OF OUR DRAWINGS FOR THE PAST SEVEN YEARS. NO, JUST TALKING ABOUT THE GUIDELINES. SO I'M, I THINK THOSE ARE MY FINAL COMMENTS. I'LL PROBABLY NOT, UH, BE SUPPORTIVE OF EMOTION RIGHT NOW AS IT IS. I MEAN, WE HAVE 34% LOT COVERAGE. WE'RE WELL IN WELL BELOW THE 50% MAX. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CONCERN IS. UM, THIS DID, THIS WAS, THIS DIDN'T COME UP AT D R C EITHER. UM, I COULD, UM, TRY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS. UM, IF I MAY. UM, I, WHILE WE DO APPRECIATE THEIR COMMENTS, UM, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE NOT REPRESENTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD IN EITHER, UH, A, YOU KNOW, A FORMAL CAPACITY. THEY'RE NOT THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THEY'RE NOT THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. THIS IS A FRINGE GROUP OF NEIGHBORS THAT TENDS TO NOT BE HAPPY WITH ANY PROJECT PROPOSALS, NO MATTER HOW GOOD OR BAD THEY ARE. UM, REGARDLESS OF THAT, UM, THERE ARE COMMENTS ON THE WINDOWS, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THE ONES THAT STAFF IS, UM, COMMENTING ON THAT. IT IS, AT LEAST FROM WHAT WE SAW ON THE, UM, STAFF STIPULATIONS, IT IS LIMITED TO THE THREE AT THE FRONT FACADE. UM, ON THE SECOND STORY. SO AGAIN, WE'RE IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS EXCEPT THAT ONE. UM, REGARDING THE USE OF STEEL, WE DID PRESENT THAT AT D R C AND AGAIN, WE WERE ACTUALLY COMPLIMENTED ON, UM, THE CLEVER USE OF IT. UM, WE ARE TRYING TO MINIMIZE COLUMNS AND KEEP THE PORCHES AS OPEN AS POSSIBLE. SO WE'RE PROPOSING THIS, UM, I-BEAM FLETCH BEAM DETAIL, UM, WHICH WE HAD ACTUALLY DISCUSSED AT ANOTHER D R C FOR ANOTHER PROJECT. UM, I KNOW THERE WAS A COMMENT, THE OTHER COMMENT THAT REALLY STUCK OUT TO ME FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I WANT TO HOPEFULLY PUT THEIR CONCERNS AT EASE IS THE, OR OWNER APPROVED EQUAL, IT SHOULD SAY, OR OWNER SLASH ARCHITECT APPROVED EQUAL. UM, THE INTENT ISN'T FOR US TO WEASE OUR WAY OUT OF AN ALUMINUM PLAID WOOD WINDOW. IT'S REALLY TO PROVIDE US FLEXIBILITY OF LOOKING AT OTHER COMPETITORS SUCH AS MARVIN PELLA. WE START WITH JEL WIND BECAUSE THEY TEND TO BE REASONABLE. UM, BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT AN ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW. UM, TO CLARIFY THE, THE CHESTNUT BRONZE, IT'S NOT A METALLIC IT, I KNOW BRONZE SOUNDS METALLIC, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY A FLAT COLOR FROM THE MANUFACTURER. SO THAT SHOULD NOT BE A CONCERN. CAN YOU ADDRESS THE BLACK GRAVEL COMMENT THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD? UM, I MEAN, WE, WE WEREN'T, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT HAD BEEN BEING DENIED. AND, UM, AGAIN, IT WASN'T ON STAFF COMMENTS. SO WE THOUGHT, [02:40:01] WELL, WE WERE SURPRISED BY THAT NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERN BECAUSE IT WASN'T, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, IF NEEDED, WE COULD EASILY SWAP THAT OUT FOR GRASS. UM, JUST GRASS DOESN'T DO WELL UNDER CARS IN THE LONG RUN. WELL, I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S A MIDPOINT BETWEEN GRASS AND GRAVEL, UH, BLACK GRAVEL. I THINK YOU CAN FIND SOME GRAVEL THAT IS, YOU KNOW, MORE REGIONALLY COLORED AND, AND, AND PROVIDE THE, THE SORT OF PERFORMANCE THAT YOU'RE NEEDING. I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING YOU SAID ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME CONTEMPORARY AILMENTS IN HERE, BUT WE THINK THEY'RE QUIET MM-HMM. . AND I THINK THAT IS THE KEY TO HIT. I AM NOT OPPOSED TO CONTEMPORARY NEW CONSTRUCTION WITHIN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T BE ARROGANT AND SHOUTY. RIGHT. THEY SHOULD BE GOOD NEIGHBORS. AND I THINK BLACK GRAVEL IS, GETS TO THAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH OVER THE TOP UNNECESSARILY SHOWY. SO I THINK YOU COULD FIND, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING IN BETWEEN THERE. THANKS, I APPRECIATE THAT COMMENT. THE, THE ONLY REASON WE WERE PROPOSING TEXAS BLACK GRAVEL, UM, IS BECAUSE OF THE COLOR SCHEME OF THE HOME. UM, IF, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE CAN GO WITH GRASS OR ELIMINATE THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY ALTOGETHER. WE WERE, WE WERE TRYING TO, UM, THE OWNER DOES NOT WANT TO DO DECOMPOSED GRANITE BECAUSE THEY'VE JUST HAD BAD EXPERIENCES WITH THAT MATERIAL IN THE PAST. SO, MR. CHAIR, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, UM, I I, I'M A, I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED BECAUSE THE, THE COMMENTS OF THE STAFF, UH, INDICATE, AND THIS IS JUST AN ASSUMPTION, BUT IT'S AN EDUCATED ASSUMPTION THAT THEY HAVE WORKED TOGETHER WITH THIS APPLICANT. AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, TO HAVE GOTTEN TO THE BOTTOM OF, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS AT THIS, AT THIS LEVEL MEANS THAT THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE REALLY GRINDED DOWN TO AN, TO A BARE MINIMUM. UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE, YOU KNOW, THE LENGTHY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT SOMETIMES CAN BE FOR A COMMISSION. UH, SO I WOULD AGREE WITH THE APPLICANT WITH RESPECT TO THE GRAVEL NOT BEING IN THERE, BUT ALSO TO THE LEVEL OF, OF, UM, SUSTAINABILITY WITH RESPECT TO WHERE ONE DRIVE ELEMENT ENDS TO ADDRESS A DESTRUCTIVE ACTIVITY OF THE VEHICLE AS IT TURNS INTO THE NEXT ELEMENT OF THE VEHICULAR ACTIVITY. THAT THERE'S A, THAT, THAT THERE'S A, THAT THERE, THERE'S A, A LIFE TERM CONSIDERATIONS WITH WITHIN THE DESIGN. AND THAT EVEN, LIKE, I'M VERY KIND OF BLOWN AWAY BY THE I-BEAM USE AND, AND THE WOOD BEING BROUGHT IN THERE THAT'S VERY SENSITIVE AND, UM, UH, THE WAY THAT, UM, THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE PUT FORTH. I, I'M NOT SO USED TO THAT. UM, SO I WAS EXPECTING THAT, THAT THIS IS A PROJECT THAT APPEARS TO BE RIGHT THERE, RIGHT? SOMEHOW THAT THEY'VE, EVERYBODY HAS GOTTEN TO THAT POINT. UM, I I WANNA SAY THAT THE A A SMALL WINDOW PROPORTION TO PROPERLY AT SOME POINT BECOMES POETIC. I'M NOT GONNA SAY THAT, THAT THE, THE BOTTOM WINDOW ON THE FIRST FLOOR IS AT THAT PROPORTION. I, I WOULD BE OF THE OPINION THAT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO GET BIGGER. IT MIGHT NEED TO GET SMALLER AND SMALLER MIGHT BE WITHIN INCHES. BUT WHAT ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT THE IDEA THAT HISTORICALLY IT SHOULD BE A BIG WINDOW OR, OR, OR A DIFFERENT WINDOW, IS AN IGNORANT PERSPECTIVE. AND I DON'T MEAN TO BE, YOU KNOW, UM, DISPARAGING OF THE PERSON THAT MADE THE COMMENTS, BUT IT REALLY IS ALL A MATTER OF A OF PROPORTION. SO NOT SPEAKING TO THE BOTTOM WINDOW AS PERSONALLY SEEING IT APPROPRIATE IN SIZE, BUT TO MAKE THE COMMENT THAT IT SHOULD BE BIGGER, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK IS A, IS A, IS A PROPER WAY TO LOOK AT IT. NOW, WITH RESPECT TO THE TOP FLOOR, THE GANGING OF THOSE THREE WINDOWS, I THINK, I THINK SOMEHOW IT, IT, IT WORKS. BUT THAT'S THINKING THAT ON THE INSIDE THERE'S SOMETHING HAPPENING, LIKE THERE'S A HUTCH AND THAT WHEN YOU'RE INSIDE, YOU SEE THIS BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF FURNITURE. AND THEN ABOVE IT ARE THESE WINDOWS THAT ARE PLACED IN THE SPOT THAT MAKES THE INSIDE AND THE OUTSIDE WORK IN CONCERT WITH EACH OTHER BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY INFERIOR, RIGHT? IF THE EXTERIOR DOES NOT RELATE TO THE INTERIOR. 'CAUSE YOU CAN HAVE A PERFECT OUTSIDE THAT DOESN'T RELATE TO THE INSIDE. AND PEOPLE LIKE MISS VANDERAU WOULD SAY THAT IT'S A COMPLETE FAILURE, RIGHT? BECAUSE, UH, WHAT IS REALLY THE THEORY OF WALL RIGHT? IS THAT IT'S RESPONDING TO BOTH SIDES OF IT, RIGHT? SO WITHOUT GETTING TOO COMPLEX OR TOO PHILOSOPHICAL, RIGHT? I THINK, I THINK THAT, UH, [02:45:03] UH, THAT THERE'S, THAT THERE'S A, A, A SENSE OF AGREEMENT WITHIN WHAT I'M SEEING STAFF AND THE APPLICANT, UM, BE, BE, UH, UH, BRING BEFORE US. I DON'T SEE THIS AS MERELY WHAT THE APPLICANT IS BRINGING BEFORE US, BUT IN THIS CASE, THAT THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF HARD WORK THAT'S GONE INTO THIS ALREADY. UM, I THINK THAT IT'S READY TO, UH, TO, TO, TO BE EMPOWERED TO BECOME A REAL BUILDING. AND I THINK WITH RESPECT TO THE WINDOW ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR, THAT, UH, PERHAPS THE, UM, DESIGNER WOULD WANNA CONSIDER, UH, MOVING THAT BOTTOM WINDOW FURTHER IN THE DIRECTION OF, OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, WOULD CONSIDER BE CONSIDERED A COMPROMISE WITH MAYBE, UH, CRITICISM THAT ISN'T QUITE EDUCATED OR TO TAKE IT AND CONSIDER THAT MAYBE THAT WINDOW IS OUTTA PROPORTION ONLY BECAUSE IT'S TOO BIG AND THAT IT ACTUALLY SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE MYSTERIOUS. UH, OTHER THAN THAT, I WOULD SUPPORT A MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE THIS, UH, THIS SIMPLE KIND HOUSE. MR. MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, IF I MAY, I JUST, I JUST REALIZED THAT THERE WAS A SECOND HALF TO, UH, STIPULATION FOUR. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO ELABORATE ON SOME OF THE OTHER WINDOWS THAT, UM, ARE NOT, THAT STAFF DOESN'T AGREE WITH. UM, IF WE COULD LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN FOLLOWED BY THE, UM, EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS, PLEASE. UM, SO I THINK AS A COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ WAS ALLUDING TO, YOU KNOW, THE FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION, ALL OF THAT, UH, PHILOSOPHY. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE SMALL WINDOW AT THE GROUND FLOOR PORCH, IT IS BEHIND A HALF BATH. AND WE TRIED OUR BEST TO, UM, CENTER THAT WITHIN THE ROOM AND KEEP A SENSE OF PROPORTION TO THE EXTERIOR AND THE FRONT FACADE. UM, WE USED TO SHOW PRIVACY OR TRANSOM WINDOWS AT THESE LOCATIONS AND STAFF REQUESTED THAT WE START SHOWING VERTICAL WINDOWS IN ONE OVER ONE PATTERNS. WE'VE DONE THAT, BUT WE FEEL THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THOSE SO THAT IT IS STILL PRIVATE SPACE. RIGHT. IN TERMS OF ITS USE. REGARDING THE OTHER ONES THAT ARE FIXED, UM, WE HAVE THOSE AT THE TUBS AND SHOWERS, UM, MAINLY THE REAR ELEVATION. AND I THINK THE, UM, IT WOULD BE THE WEST ELEVATION. UM, IF WE CAN GO TO THOSE EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS. UM, YEP. THERE, THAT ONE IS AT A SHOWER, AND I KNOW THE DESIRE FOR THEM, THE DESIRE FOR THEM TO BE OPERABLE WAS STATED BY STAFF. SO WE'VE WE'RE PROPOSING HOPPER WINDOWS THERE. UM, SO THAT THEY DO HAVE A FUNCTION. UM, BUT WE STILL THINK TWO THINGS. WE THINK THEY NEED TO BE OF HIGH BECAUSE THEY'RE IN, WE PEOPLE ARE NUDE, RIGHT? AND THEY'RE SHOWERING. UM, ONE FOR PRIVACY REASONS, TWO, WE'VE ACTUALLY RAN INTO CODE ISSUES WHERE, UM, A MORE VERTICAL WINDOW HAS TO BE RAISED, THE SIL THAT HAS TO BE RAISED DURING CONSTRUCTION BECAUSE THERE YOU NEED FIVE FOOT CLEARANCE FROM THE TUB OR SHOWER SURFACE TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT SILL SO THAT IT ISN'T A SLIPPING HAZARD OR A SAFETY HAZARD. UM, THAT IS A BUILDING CODE THING. SO EVEN THOUGH WE'RE LOOKING AT THINGS FROM A HISTORIC PRESERVATION, OR IN THIS CASE HISTORIC APPROPRIATENESS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, WE DO HAVE MODERN BUILDING CODES THAT WE HAVE TO FOLLOW AND ADHERE TO. UM, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL INSTANCES WHERE THE WAY THE COMMISSION APPROVES SOMETHING, IT CAN'T BE PERMITTED THAT WAY AND IT CAN'T BE, IT CAN'T PASS INSPECTIONS. AND WE HAVE THEN WE'RE THE ONES THAT LEFT SCRAMBLING, YOU KNOW, DURING CONSTRUCTION TRYING TO FIGURE THOSE THINGS OUT. UM, SO THAT'S THE LOGIC BEHIND THOSE, UM, PRIVATE TRANSOM WINDOWS, HOPPER WINDOWS, IN THIS CASE AT THOSE PRIVATE ROOMS SPACES. I, I HOPE THAT CLARIFIES THE DESIGN INTENT. MR. CHAIR. I HAVE SOME COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS ALSO FOR THE APPLICANT, MR. ZIGA. UM, UM, I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT OF ADJUSTING HERE, UH, UH, GETTING USED TO THE DIFFERENT COMMUNICATION STYLES AND HOPING THAT, YOU KNOW, THROUGH ALL OF THIS, YOU'RE FINDING THE POINTS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. AND SO ALSO, UM, THERE'S NO PRIORITY, NO HIERARCHY OF COMMENTS, UM, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM, EVEN THE COMMUNITY IN THE COMMUNITY, THERE ARE NO FRINGE GROUPS. THERE ARE RESIDENTS AND PROPERTY OWNERS, HOW THEY ORGANIZE OR DON'T ORGANIZE IS DIFFERENT, BUT THEY, [02:50:01] UM, ARE PART OF THAT PUBLIC PARTICIPATION THAT THIS PROCESS IS BUILT ON. SO, UM, BUT GOING BACK TO THE CONTENT OF THE FILES, I, UM, I FIND THAT, UH, STAFF'S COMMENTS ARE VERY VALID, UM, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE WINDOWS. UM, YOU'VE USED A, A GREAT AMOUNT OF CREATIVITY AND FLEXIBILITY AS YOU'VE, UM, UH, DESIGNED THIS. AND SO I THINK, UM, PUSHING IT A LITTLE BIT MORE, ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WINDOWS THAT ARE INSET FROM THAT FRONT VOLUME, UM, COULD BE VERY HELPFUL. HAVING A LARGE, OR HAVING A SMALL BATHROOM WINDOW IS NOT THE ONLY OPTION, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S ON THE FRONT A LARGER, AND SO ONE COULD ASK FOR A LARGER WINDOW BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THAT FACADE NEEDS. UM, SO I WOULD, I WOULD CONSIDER THAT. UM, IS THAT, IS THAT A MATTER OF OPINION THOUGH, MISS, UH, COMMISSIONER SAVINO? I MEAN, IS THAT WHAT THE FACADE NEEDS? THE FACADE IS A MAIN FACADE. MM-HMM. AND, UM, BEING CONFORMING AND RESPONDING TO THE EXISTING, UM, HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND THE PLACEMENT OF WINDOWS ON A FRONT FACADE. MM-HMM. WITH A FRONT ORIENTATION TO THE STREET. YES. I STILL THINK THAT'S A MATTER OF OPINION. UM, BUT THANK YOU. WELL, EVERY, EVERY, EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT. MM-HMM. EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE. YEAH. 'CAUSE YOU'RE SAYING CONFORMING, BUT I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE BUILDING A BUILDING IN 2021. AGREED. WE DON'T, WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE FALSE HISTORICISM. AGREED. AND, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. I REALLY, REALLY DO. UM, THAT'S A BIG, THAT IS A BIG CHALLENGE AS WE TRY TO, AS WE'RE USING THE VERNACULAR FORMS, TRADITIONAL FORMS AND SIZES. AND YOU'VE OFTEN ASKED, WELL, YOU KNOW, ALL OUR STUFF'S STARTING TO LOOK THE SAME, AND IT'S SCARY. WELL, HERE'S THE, HERE'S THE, UM, AS WE LOOK AT, WE DON'T WANT TO BE LA EO EXCUSE ME. EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME. LET ME GO THROUGH THE NUMBERS. LET THE COMMISSIONER TALK. PLEASE. LET ME GO THROUGH THE, UM, ITEMS AND, AND AS WE ALL PRIORITIZE WHAT THESE ITEMS ARE, YOU CAN PRIORITIZE HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO RESPOND TO 'EM. UM, I AGREE WITH STAFF, I AGREE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP. I AGREE WITH MY COMMISSIONERS ON A LOT OF THESE, UH, POINTS, MY PRIORITIZATION WILL BE DIFFERENT. FOR INSTANCE, THE, THE METAL DETAIL, THE, OR THE DETAIL TO RESOLVE THE METAL EXPOSED, I THINK IN THIS CASE, WORKS VERY WELL. IT'S THE DETAILS THAT MAKE THESE HISTORIC HOUSES DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE. SO THAT'S ONE WAY THAT WE CAN TELL IT'S A NEW HOUSE. HOW DO YOU TELL IF THE BUILDING IS OF ITS TIME? IT'S SOME OF THESE VERY CREATIVE DETAILS. ANOTHER WAY WE CAN TELL A HOUSE IS OF ITS TIME, OR A BUILDING IS OF ITS TIME, ESPECIALLY NOW IN A POST, POST POSTMODERN ERA, IS THE SIZE, IS THE SCALE OF IT TRUE. THE HEIGHT OF IT. AND THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS. THE HEIGHT IS EVEN FOR THAT REDUCED FRONT OR THAT INCREASED FRONT SETBACK THAT YOU'VE RESPONDED TO VERY WELL. I THINK THE HEIGHT IS STILL A CHALLENGE. AND IF THAT MEANS BRINGING DOWN THAT TOP PLATE ON THE SECOND FLOOR FROM A 10 TO NINE OR TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT. UM, AND JUST BECAUSE STAFF HASN'T COMMENT ON, COMMENTED ON IT, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT A TOPIC OPEN FOR CONVERSATION. SO I DON'T KNOW. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT WHAT THAT DOES TO YOUR PROPORTION, TO YOUR INTERIOR ROOM QUALITIES TO BRING THE ROOF DOWN? UM, WE, TO REDUCE THE HOUSING, WE, WE DID EXPLORE THAT, AND IT, IT DID BECAUSE OF THE PROGRAMMATIC REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE AND BEDROOM COUNT AND A, A GROWING FAMILY, UM, THE, THE, THE BUILDING IS LARGE, RIGHT? MM-HMM. , AND TO KEEP A CERTAIN SENSE OF SCALE AND PROPORTION THAT CONFORMS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, DROPPING THAT PLATE, IT, IT DID START AFFECTING WINDOW SIZES. UM, WE WOULD INTRODUCE MORE WINDOW SIZES, RIGHT? IN 10 FOOT CEILINGS, WE TRY TO STICK TO SIX FOOT TALL WINDOWS, EIGHT FOOT TALL PLATE, UH, HEAD HEIGHTS. UM, IN NINE FOOT CEILINGS, WE, WE GO WITH FIVE FOOT WINDOWS, SEVEN FOOT TALL PLATE HEIGHTS. SO YOU START ADDING A WHOLE NOTHER, UM, WINDOW, UM, SIZE LANGUAGE, UM, AND IT STARTS FEELING ALMOST LIKE A SEGMENTED BUILDING WHERE WITH A TOP AND A BOTTOM, RIGHT? AND SO WE WERE TRYING TO AVOID THAT. AND AGAIN, THE MASSING, YOU KNOW, OUR RIDGE HEIGHT IS TALLER, BUT WE DID TRY TO TUCK THAT REAR ROOF UNDERNEATH THAT, UM, EFFORTS WERE MADE TO MINIMIZE THE OVERALL HEIGHT. MM-HMM. [02:55:01] , THE, THE, THE SITE IS NOT DOING US ANY FAVORS. AND I KNOW YOU POINTED THAT OUT AT D R C, WHERE OUR, OUR PREVIOUS TOPO, UH, UM, SECTION ELEVATION OF THE STREET WAS EVEN, IT, IT WAS MORE INACCURATE THAN WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. SO, UM, YEAH, I, I NOTICED THAT THE, THE TOBO CHANGED MM-HMM. . UM, SO, UH, UNDERSTANDABLY THE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE REALLY STAYING TO A STRICT PROPORTION, YOU'LL WANNA KEEP YOUR WINDOWS FOLLOWING THAT PATTERN. SO, OKAY. IT'S AN ECONOMIC THING. UM, BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO CONSIDER IT, CONSIDER BRINGING IT DOWN, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE ON THE DOWNSIDE OF THE HILL OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION AND YOU'RE STILL TALLER, THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT YOUR NEW CONSTRUCTION TODAY AND THE ADJACENT MODEST HISTORIC HOUSES IS VERY SIGNIFICANT. IF IT'S SIGNIFICANT ON PAPER, IT WILL, IT WILL REALLY BE PRONOUNCED IN, IN WHEN IT'S BUILT. THAT IS, THAT'S ONE OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE MAGIC OF CONSTRUCTION AS WELL AS ARCHITECTURE. WHAT LOOKS IN ONE WAY ON PAPER IS ONE THING. AND THEN WHEN YOU BUILD IT, IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. THE OTHER THING, VERY QUICKLY, THE SITE PLAN DOES CONCERN ME, AND I'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF, UH, COMMENTS ABOUT THE SITE PLAN REGARDING, UM, THE BLACK GRAVEL. YEP. THAT'S JUST, THAT'S A NO-GO. UM, SOME KIND OF GRAVEL. YES. UH, I THINK THE SITE PLAN NEEDS TO BE, UM, A LITTLE BIT BETTER LABELED. SO THAT IN THAT STRIP ON THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE PRO EASTERN SIDE OF THE HOUSE, ON THE EAST PROPERTY LINE, WHAT'S THE MATERIAL BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE FENCE? UM, THAT'S ALL GRASS. GRASS. WE COULD USE A LABEL THERE. UH, THE SPACE BETWEEN THE SOUTH FACE OF THE HOUSE AND THE NORTH OF THE GARAGE, WHAT ARE WE DOING THERE? UM, BETWEEN THE CARPORT AND THE, I'M SORRY. CARPORT. YES. UH, GRASS. GRASS. SO ANYTHING THAT'S NOT LABELED OTHERWISE IS GRASS. MM-HMM. , UM, EVERYTHING THAT'S LABELED IS NOT GRASS. OKAY. OKAY. THE, THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE CAUSED BY JUST BUILDING AND TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS IS PRETTY HIGH. AND IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, IT'S SIX OF ONE HALF DOZEN OF ANOTHER. BUT IN THIS CASE, BECAUSE OF THAT HILL SLOPE YOU'RE ON, BECAUSE OF THE CONSTRUCTION ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY AND YOUR PROPERTY, WE'RE SEEING, UM, THIS HAPPEN IN A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION SITES, UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'VE GONE FROM VACANT LOTS TO BUILT LOTS, THE RUNOFF ON THE DOWNSIDE OF THE HILL IS CLEAR AND PRESENT. AND SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU LOOK AT SOME SORT OF DRAINAGE MITIGATION ON THE WEST SIDE OF YOUR PROPERTY BECAUSE IT IS SIGNIFICANT AND YOU HAVE A GREAT LENGTH, YOU HAVE GREAT IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE. UM, I THINK YOU WOULD, UM, DO A BENEFIT TO THE FUTURE OWNER TO MITIGATE THAT DRAINAGE NOW RATHER THAN LATER. AND BECAUSE OF THAT ELEVATION CHANGE, IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A BUILT THING OR SOME FEATURE, AND IT MAY REQUIRE STAFF'S REVIEW. OKAY. AND THAT, THOSE ARE THE IMPORTANT PO POINTS. IT'S HOW FAR DO YOU GO TO MAKE A NEW BUILDING LOOK, NEW DETAILS, THE BIG MOVES. I MEAN, IF YOU DO THE BIG MOVES, UM, IT'S, YEAH, IT'S TRICKY. IT'S CHALLENGING. AND THEN THE IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE AS IT RELATES TO SITE DRAINAGE AND THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES. I, I APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS. UM, IF I, IF I MAY, YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT, UM, THE WAY WE EXPERIENCE A DRAWING OR A BUILDING ON PAPER IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE WAY YOU EXPERIENCE A BUILDING ONCE IT'S BUILT. YOU KNOW, UH, THIS DRAWING IS VERY STARK, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S A ORTHOGRAPHIC, UM, ELEVATION DRAWING. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT BEHIND THAT FRONT GABLE, THAT ROOF IS SLOPING AWAY FROM YOU AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA EXPERIENCE IT BEING AS TALL AS STARK. SO ON THIS DRAWING, WE HAVE A ONE TO TWO FOOT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED HOME AND THE PROPOSED ONE. UM, I THINK IN REAL LIFE IT'S GONNA BE SUBTLE. YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE SIX INCHES, WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO. UM, AND YOU CAN KIND OF GET A SENSE OF THAT FROM THE THREE D RENDERINGS THAT WE WERE PLAYING WITH, UM, WHERE THE ROOF SLOPING AWAY, THE OTHER RIDGE LINE IS DOING SOMETHING ELSE, AND IT CREATES THIS, UM, JUXTAPOSITION OF ROOF LINES, RIGHT. UM, AS FAR AS THE DRAINAGE, UM, I COMPLETELY AGREE. I KNOW PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS [03:00:01] WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS THAT THEY DO DO A DRAINAGE REVIEW FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIALS. SO, UM, I KNOW THERE'S OTHER RULES AND BALANCES IN, IN PLACE, UM, CHECKS AND BALANCES IN PLACE TO NOT HAVE EXTREME RUNOFF TOWARDS OTHER NEIGHBORS. THAT'S DEFINITELY A CONCERN AND SOMETHING THAT WOULD NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. UM, I THINK THAT WOULD COME UP IN THE PERMITTING PROCESS. AND IF IT IS FOUND THAT WE DO NEED A FRENCH DRAIN OR A RETAINING WALL OF SOME SORTS, WE WOULD DEFINITELY NEED TO COME BACK TO THIS COMMISSION TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER IS REQUIRED OR BEING PROPOSED AT THAT TIME IS, UH, APPROPRIATE. MM-HMM. , I CAN, I CAN TELL YOU THAT'S NOT OCCURRING RIGHT NOW. REALLY? OKAY. YES. YES. OKAY. YEAH. UM, AND SO TO BE ON THE, UM, ON THE, UM, PROACTIVE SIDE, ESPECIALLY FOR YOUR CLIENT, UM, I THINK YOU'D WANT TO DO THAT DUE DILIGENCE. BUT AGAIN, THE HEIGHT HAS TO DO ALSO WITH THE TRANSITION INTO THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURES AS THE STREET FRONTAGE IS EXPERIENCED. YOU, I'M, I'M AFRAID THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND DROP THE TOP PLATE DOWN, UH, YOU KNOW, TO NINE FEET, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S GONNA FULLY RESOLVE THE SITUATION. AND WE COULD COME BACK AND LOOK AT THIS DRAWING AND SAY, HEY, THE PROPOSED STRUCTURAL IS STILL STILL TALLER THAN THE ADJACENT NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT HASN'T EVEN STARTED YET. UM, SO WHERE DO WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THESE GUIDELINES THAT WE FOLLOW. WE'RE, WE'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT COMPLIANT WITH THE GUIDELINE, WE'RE ONE STORY ABOVE THE PREDOMINANT, UM, STORY COUNT FOR THE BLOCK FACE. SO WHERE DO YOU DRAW THAT LINE OF WHAT'S APPROPRIATE AND WHAT ISN'T? MR. CHAIRMAN? UH, YES. COMMISSIONER FISH. IF COMMISSIONER SINO IS DONE, I'D LIKE TO TRY TO GET THE BALL ROLLING. YES. BUT I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT. THERE'S A SMALL DELAY HERE. NO, PLEASE PROCEED. UM, I MEAN, I'VE LISTENED TO THIS CONVERSATION AND THERE MIGHT BE, UM, DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW FROM THIS COMMISSION. SO, UH, I, MY PERSONAL OPINION, I, I WAS ON THE D R C, UH, REVIEWED THE PROJECT. IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, MANY ITEMS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. I CONCUR WITH STAFF'S FINDINGS, INCLUDING THE WINDOWS. I DEFINITELY THINK THAT THE, THE WINDOWS ON THE UPPER LEVEL, UH, NEED TO BE, UH, UH, A SCALE AND PROPORTION THAT'S COMPATIBLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU MIGHT CONSIDER BLANKING THE, THE, UH, REAR SIDE TO ACCOMMODATE A DESK IF THAT'S WHAT'S NEEDED. UM, I ALSO CONCUR THAT THE, THE GRAVEL NEEDS TO BE EXPLORED. SO WHAT I'M GONNA DO HERE, GIVEN THAT THERE'S A VARIETY OF POINTS OF VIEW, IS I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION, UH, THAT DEALS WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES. AND IF, IF THERE'S SUPPORT FOR IT, I GUESS WE'LL MOVE FORWARD. IF THERE'S NOT, WE CAN TAKE THE ALTERNATIVE MOTION. SO I, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL IS STAFF STIPULATIONS ONE THROUGH FIVE, ADD STA UH, ADD STIPULATION SIX, THAT, UH, GRAVEL BE OF A NATURAL COLOR OTHER THAN BLACK. AND, UH, STIPULATION SEVEN THAT IF RETENTION FEATURES ARE REQUIRED TO MITIGATE DRAINAGE, THAT THOSE BE REVIEWED BY THIS COMMISSION. SECOND, MR. CHAIR, AND I'D LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT WITH THAT SECTION. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. YES, SIR. MR. VELASQUEZ, UH, I WANT TO, UM, UH, THANK COMMISSIONER, UH, FISH FOR THE MOTION. UM, I THINK IT'S A SENSITIVE MOTION. UM, AND I, I DO WANT MAKE A COMMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE NATURE OF NEW CONSTRUCTION AND, UM, WHAT, WHAT I DO CONSIDER TO BE JUST THIS KIND OF CULTURE OF A CONTINUOUS OVERREACH WITH RESPECT TO, UM, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, COMMISSION, UH, UH, JURISDICTION. THE, THE, THE REASON BEING THAT, THAT THE BASIS OF, OF OUR COMMUNITY IS, IS IT IT MEAN TOLERANCE MEANS NOTHING. IF, IF IT IS THAT WE TOLERATE UNTIL IT COMES TIME FOR US ALL TO AGREE THAT THE ONLY, UM, AESTHETIC AND URBAN PATTERN THAT IS ACCEPTABLE IS, UH, AN URBAN PATTERN THAT IS, UH, UH, SUBJECTED TO THE DOMINANT SOCIETY OF THE 1940S AND THE 1930S, BECAUSE THEIR MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF COMMUNITY WHOSE, WHOSE CULTURAL BACKGROUNDS DIDN'T GET TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE STANDARDS, THAT WOULD BECOME THE GUIDELINES OF TODAY. SO CLEARLY, WHEN A NEW GENERATION [03:05:01] COMES BEFORE THE COMMISSION WITH, UM, ELEMENTS THAT GO BEYOND THE IDEA OF WHAT CAN BE CONSIDERED AS URBAN STANDARDS, LIKE SETBACKS AND, UM, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, UM, PITCHES AND, AND, AND PARTICULARLY THE, THE, THE STANDARDS OF EXISTING ARCHITECTURE, RIGHT? THINGS THAT ARE THERE THAT HAVE A STORY THAT DON'T REQUIRE ANY INTERPRETATION, BUT REQUIRE, UM, ENFORCEMENT. BUT NEW CONSTRUCTION CLEARLY MEANS THE INTRUSION OF THE PARTICIPATION OF COMMUNITIES WHO DID NOT GET TO PARTICIPATE AT A TIME WHEN EXCLUSIONARY STANDARDS WERE APPROPRIATE, WHICH THEY'RE NOT APPROPRIATE ANYMORE. SO THE COMMISSION'S TOLERANCE OF THINGS LIKE THE COLOR OF GRAVEL REALLY REPRESENT OUR COMMITMENT TO EQUITY. AND I, I'M, I'M, I'M ALWAYS DISAPPOINTED WITH THE NITPICKING, UH, THAT REALLY AMOUNT TO FORCING THIS HOMOGENOUS, WHAT DO THEY CALL IT? DISNEYFICATION DISNEYFICATION OF, OF SAN ANTONIO, BECAUSE SAN ANTONIO'S REAL ROOT IS SUCH A ROOT OF DIVERSITY. UM, BUT I, I DO SECOND THE MOTION. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. I DO HAVE ONE COMMENT. MR. CHAIR. YES. COMMISSIONER, JUST TO STAFF, WHY DID YOU NOT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE CONCRETE, UH, THE IN PREVIOUS COVER? THE GUIDELINES ARE SPECIFIC TO BUILDING DE LOT RATIO. UM, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT OFF, UM, NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DISCUSSED HERE. UM, IT'S OBVIOUSLY CONCERN BECAUSE IN THE SITE ELEMENTS CHAPTER, THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT ADDITION OF IMP IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE. UM, BUT THERE'S NO SPECIFIC PERCENTAGES IN THAT CHAPTER. FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, FOR NEW CON, FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, THERE IS A PERCENTAGE, WE'RE BUILDING A LOT RATIO, BUT THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE OF DRIVEWAYS AND PARKING PADS. JUST TO, UH, SAY I, I'LL, I'LL SUPPORT, I DON'T KNOW, I'M, I'M, I'M A LITTLE BIT ON THE FENCE, UM, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE STAFF LOOKS MAYBE LOOKED AT THIS CASE, NOT LIKE THEY LOOK AT OTHER CASES. I DON'T KNOW WHY. I JUST FEEL LIKE I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD VERY STRONG COMMENTS THAT I AGREE WITH. I MEAN, GO WITH THE MOTION. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SABINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. SUM? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. RUBE. NAYYY. ZER. AYE. UNE NAYYY. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. AGENDA [17. Address/Description: 1003 NOLAN ST HDRC Case No.: 2021441 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Grace Villa /PATRICK GRACE KEEGAN Request: Installation of driveway and parking pad in side and rear yard City Council Dist.: 2] ITEM NUMBER 17, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 4 41 10 0 3 NOLAN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, RELOCATE THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE TO THE REAR OF THE HOUSE TO FEATURE A DRIVEWAY WIDTH OF 20 FEET AND TWO, TO INSTALL A CONCRETE PARKING PAD IN THE REAR YARD TO FEATURE APPROXIMATELY 400 SQUARE FEET. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE RELOCATION OF THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY AND IMPERVIOUS MATERIAL SUCH AS GRAVEL, DECOMPOSED GRANITE IS ALSO APPROPRIATE. AND TWO, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. THIS THE INSTALLATION OF A REAR YARD PARKING PAD WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE PROPOSED PARKING PAD BE REDUCED IN SIZE IS NOTED IN FINDING D AND TWO, THAT THE PROPOSED PARKING PAD FEATURE PERVIOUS PAVING MATERIALS SUCH AS GRAVEL OR DECOMPOSED GRANITE. HELLO, GOOD EVENING. I'M MICHAEL VILLA. I'M THE, UH, HOMEOWNER AT 1 0 0 3 NOLAN. UM, WE ARE LOOKING TO PUT A DRIVEWAY IN THE BACK DUE TO THE, UM, WILLOW SIDEWALK CONSTRUCTION PROJECT CONDUCTED BY THE CITY. UM, PREVIOUSLY OUR DRIVEWAY WAS LOCATED IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, UM, WITHIN A PRE-EXISTING PAD THAT, UH, MEASURES 20 BY 26 FEET. UM, SINCE THEN, SO SINCE THE PROJECT THAT CURVED IT UP DUE TO, UM, ACCESS FOR A D A COMPLIANCE, UM, SO WE WERE FORCED TO MOVE IT TO THE, UH, BACK OF THE, UM, PROPERTY. UM, AND THEN ANOTHER REASON WHY WE WANTED TO MOVE IT TO THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY LONG TERM WAS FOR, UH, SAFETY OF GETTING IN AND OUT OF OUR HOUSE. [03:10:01] UM, THE FIRST 20 FEET, LIKE I SAID, ARE AS STATED WOULD BE, UM, PERMEABLE PAVERS. UM, AND WE WOULD HAVE GRASS GROWING IN THE, IN THOSE PAVERS, THE SECOND 20 FEET, UM, LONG TERM WE WANNA LAY THE CONCRETE NOW AND GET IT DONE AT THE SAME TIME, BUT WOULD BE A FOUNDATION FOR A FUTURE STRUCTURE. UM, AND THERE WAS AN EXISTING FUTURE OR EXISTING STRUCTURE, UM, THAT WE DIDN'T INCLUDE ON THE SANDBORN MA SANDBORN MAP DATING, UH, BACK TO 1912. IT SHOWS A LITTLE CARRIAGE HOUSE OR SOMETHING BACK THERE AS WELL. UM, SO THAT WAS THE, UH, THOUGHT PROCESS RIDING THE CONCRETE. AND IN, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE WOULD ALSO RIP UP THE, UH, FRONT EXISTING PAD AS YOU SEE IN THE PHOTOS AND, UH, PLANT GRASS TO, UM, JUST TO GET RID OF IT AND MAKE IT A MORE COHESIVE FRONT FACADE. SO, THANK YOU SIR. UH, DO WE HAVE CITIZEN COMMENTS? GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I'M SCOTT ALBERT, 9 22 LAKE PINE STREET ON BEHALF OF THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT NEIGHBORS. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING OUR COMMENTS ON H D R CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 41 1 0 0 3 NOLAN STREET. WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL. WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD THAT THIS APPLICATION HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TO INCLUDE O H P STAFF AND THE DESIGN AND INSTALLATION OF PUBLIC FLAT WORK, CURBS, SIDEWALKS, ET CETERA. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF A 20 FOOT DRIVE BECAUSE THERE WAS HISTORICALLY A 20 FOOT APRON AND CURB CUT. HOWEVER, THERE IS NO CURB AND THE APRON WAS INSTALLED LESS THAN SIX MONTHS AGO BY A D S D CONTRACT. PLEASE SEE THE PHOTOS PROVIDED IN THE HARD COPY OF THESE COMMENTS PROVIDED TO EACH COMMISSIONER. THIS IS NO FAULT OF THE APPLICANT. WE DO HOWEVER, RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT APPLICANT CONSIDER TAPERING THE DRIVE TO THE RECOMMENDED 10 FEET ONCE PAST THE SIDEWALK. WE ALSO THINK THE APPLICANT FOR RESTORING THE FRONT OF THIS PROMINENT HOME TO ITS PROPER LANDSCAPE. I ENCOURAGE THEM TO REMOVE THE FRONT PARKING PAD WHEN POSSIBLE. THANK YOU. OKAY. QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? THIS IS COMMISSIONER GROUP. I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD TIME MAYBE UNDERSTANDING EXACTLY. SO MAYBE JUST STAFF. SO THEY PUT E S D PUT A 20 FOOT CURB CUT BECAUSE THERE WAS ONE THERE HISTORICALLY, BASICALLY RIGHT WHEN THEY WERE REDOING STREETS. SO WHAT SOMETIMES HAPPENS IS WHEN THE CONTRACTOR GETS OUT THERE, THERE'S GENERAL DIRECTION TO LIKE WORK WITH PROPERTY OWNERS AND MAKE THEM HAPPY. AND SOMETIMES THAT RESULTS IN NEW DRIVEWAYS. AND THIS ONE IS, WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT. I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT WE APPROVED IT, UM, BUT PROBABLY WAS INSTALLED AS PART OF A PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT BECAUSE THEY DO GO THROUGH YOU WHEN THEY'RE IN HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS, RIGHT? YEAH. WE ISSUE COAS FOR PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. YEAH, WELL, THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH HERE WHEN THERE'S LIKE, SOMEBODY WANTS LIKE, RIGHT. MORE INCHES. SO, AND YOU'RE WANTING TO DO YOUR CONCRETE RIGHT THERE, RIGHT? NO MA'AM. NO MA'AM. THE, UM, THE FIRST 20 FEET OF THE, UH, DRIVEWAY WOULD BE PERMEABLE PAVERS THAT WOULD ALMOST LOOK LIKE GRASS. OH, SORRY. WHAT I MEANT WAS LIKE THE PROJECT IS RIGHT THERE WITH THAT DRIVEWAY IS NOW THE 20 FEET. YES, THAT IS CORRECT. SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT WHAT I'M FINDING DIFFICULT IN THIS SITUATION. UM, I GUESS I'M, I'M KIND OF AGREEING WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, MR. CHAIR. I, I'D LIKE TO JUST ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT COMMISSIONER GRU ASKED. UH, UH, COMMISSIONER GRU, WHAT I HAVE FOUND IS THAT WHEN THE CONTRACTORS GO OUT TO FIX STREETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, IF THERE'S A GATE, THEY TEND TO NOT ASK ANYBODY. THEY JUST PUT AN APPROACH WHERE THERE'S A GATE. AND I THINK THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE, THE, THE OBLIGATION OF THE PART OF THE CONTRACT COMMISSIONER. I WASN'T ASKING THE QUESTIONS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW, I WAS TRYING TO MAKE A POINT FOR CLARIFICATION FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMENTS AND FOR THE WITH STAFF. THAT'S ALL RIGHT. RIGHT. BUT JUST IN TERMS OF YOUR QUESTION, JUST FROM THE PICTURE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE LISTENING, LIKE THE WHOLE CITY'S LISTENING, RIGHT? AND THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT PICTURE, THAT'S A PICTURE OF AN EXISTING GATE. AND FOR ANYBODY WHO'S THINKING THAT MAYBE SOMETHING WAS DONE WRONG HERE, THAT IT'S THE TENDENCY TO HONOR THE ENTRY BY THE CONTRACTORS WHO, OR JUST MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE'S A GATE, THEREFORE IT IMPLICATES AN APPROACH THAT'S, THAT'S POINTS REALLY MORE FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, [03:15:01] I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. YES, SIR. UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE YOU RES YOU AFTER YOU GET THROUGH THE APRON HERE, THAT WAS NOT OF YOUR DOING, YOU GO BACK DOWN TO 10 FEET AND THEN, SORRY, DIDN'T FLARED TO BE WIDER. IF YOU'RE WANTING TO HAVE TWO CARS, UH, ON SIDE TO SIDE, SO THAT ZONE THAT YOU'RE SHOWING IS AS PER PERMEABLE PAVING. COULD THAT BE REDUCED DOWN TO A MORE OF A, OF A 10 FOOT WIDE APPROACH THAT'S MORE CONSISTENT WITH, UH, AN HISTORIC, UH, DRIVEWAY WITH, UM, THE ONLY REASON WHY I, I, I GUESS I WOULD JUST NEED TO SEE AN EXAMPLE OF IT. THERE IS ONE ON, UM, THERE'S A GRAY HOUSE, A COUPLE OF BLOCKS OR ONE BLOCK OVER AND HE HAS, IT GOES FROM 10 FEET AND THEN OPENS UP INTO A LARGER, I THINK, THREE CAR SPACE. BUT I THINK WITH THE WAY THAT THE CONCRETE WAS FORWARDED WOULD JUST LOOK A LITTLE BIT ODD. UM, AND THEN NEGOTIATING BACKING OUT OF THERE, INSTEAD OF HAVING JUST A STRAIGHT, UM, STRAIGHT REVERSE OPTION WOULD BE DIFFICULT. AND THAT'S WHY WE WENT WITH THE PERAL PAVERS AND NOT ALL CONCRETE, UM, TO BEGIN WITH WAS TO KIND OF MEET EVERYONE HALFWAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. I'VE GOT A QUESTION ABOUT THE SIZE OR THE MATERIAL OF THE PARKING PAD. UM, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT IT BE GRAVEL OR DECOMPOSED GRANITE. AND YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT YOU WANTED TO PUT DOWN A SLAB FOR A FUTURE STRUCTURE BACK THERE. THAT IS CORRECT. UM, AT THIS POINT I WOULD SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND SORT OF A RECOMMENDATION TO YOU THAT IF YOU'RE PLANNING A, AN ACCESSORY BUILDING ON THIS, UH, SLAB IN THE FUTURE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA WANT TO DEAL WITH ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING AND UM, NOT HAVING A SLAB THERE WILL HELP YOU DO THAT IN THE FUTURE, IN YOUR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. UH, YES. YEAH, THAT, THAT'S ALL SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT, UM, ABOUT WHEN THIS OCCURRED, ABOUT SIX WEEKS AGO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE KIND OF JUST THROWN INTO THE, UH, FIRE TO GET THIS THING APPROVED, UM, OR TO GET A DRIVEWAY INSTALLED MORE OR LESS JUST SO WE CAN START PARKING OUR CARS BACK INSIDE OUR FENCE AGAIN. ALRIGHT. SO PERHAPS NOW IT'D BE, UM, LOOKING AT PROVIDING A, A DRIVEWAY AND PARKING THAT'S PERMEABLE AND THEN AS YOU DEVELOP YOUR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE PLANS, THEN COME BACK WITH A FOUNDATION FOR THAT. OKAY. A SUGGESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN? UM, I HAVE SUGGESTION ALSO, UM, YEAH, A SUGGESTION FOR, UM, THE APPLICANT. UM, ALONG WITH HAVING THAT FLEXIBILITY, WOULD IT BE HELPFUL IF YOU, UM, ATTENDED A D R C IF YOU HAD YOUR FOOTPRINT LAYOUT OF YOUR PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION FOR THE FUTURE? SO WE COULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT AS WE MAKE SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO REDUCE THE PERMEABILITY AS WELL AS THE AREA OF THAT DRIVEWAY. WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING YOU WOULD BE INTERESTED IN? UM, YES, IT IS. I, I GUESS THE, THE THING THAT I'M UNDER THE GUN IS WITH THE, WE JUST HAD A NEWBORN BABY, SO NEGOTIATING ALL THIS STUFF WITH THE THREE WEEK OLD HAS BEEN CHALLENGING. UM, AND SO THAT WE, WE WERE JUST REALLY FOCUSING ON GETTING THE DRIVEWAY, UM, COMPLETED. THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. COMMISSIONER LA? YES, SIR. UM, A COMMENT ABOUT PER PERMEABLE PAVERS, THE APPLICANT HAD MENTIONED EARLIER THAT HE WAS, UH, CONTEMPLATING, UH, SOME KIND OF PAVER WITH GRASS INCLUDED. UH, I WOULD DISCOURAGE YOU FROM DOING THAT. UH, THAT IS NOT A PRACTICAL LONG-TERM SOLUTION 'CAUSE THE GRASS INEVITABLY DIES EITHER FROM OIL DRIPPINGS OR PRESSURE FROM, UH, CAR TIRES, VARIOUS OTHER THINGS. SO IN THAT RESPECT, THE, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR MATERIAL LIKE DECOMPOSED GRANITE IS MORE PRACTICAL. AND WAS THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION THAT WAS FOR THE FINAL 20 FEET? UH, CORRECT. NOT FOR THE ORIGINAL GRASS. CORRECT. STAFF FINDS THE, UH, THE DRIVEWAY PORTION. SO, UH, THIS PORTION THAT'S HIGHLIGHTED ON THE SCREEN HERE TO BE APPROPRIATE AS PROPOSED, UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING A PERMEABLE, UH, SOLUTION FOR, UH, THE, THE SECOND 20 BY 20 AREA. I THINK TO COMMISSIONER LFO'S POINT, WHATEVER THAT PERMEABLE MATERIAL YOU DO IN THE, IN THE FINAL PARKING AREA, THAT THAT IS WHAT'S EXTENDING IN THROUGH THE PAVERS AS WELL. SO SINCE YOU'RE NOT GETTING INTO A MAINTENANCE ISSUE OR SOMETHING THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, CAUSE PROBLEMS DOWN THE LINE, [03:20:01] IT'S A PERMANENT SOLUTION. STAFF. CLARIFY THAT, BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE IT IN THE STIPULATION ON ITEM NUMBER ONE. YOU ARE RECOMMENDING GRAVEL OR DECOMPOSED GRANITE, NOT PAVERS. UH, WELL, IT, IT, I'LL READ IT. UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE RELOCATION OF THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY AND IMPERVIOUS MATERIAL SUCH AS GRAVEL OR DECOMPOSED GRANITE IS ALSO APPROPRIATE. UH, THAT'S THERE TO GIVE THE APPLICANT, UM, FLEXIBILITY. UM, IF HE DOESN'T CHOOSE A PAVER, THAT GRAVEL OR DECOMPOSE GRANITE WOULD ALSO BE APPROPRIATE. UH, SO, UM, IT, CONSIDERING THAT THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY IS A BIT ATYPICAL, UM, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO EXPLORE, UH, DIFFERENT MEANS TO EITHER SEPARATE THE WIDTH OR HOWEVER THEY FEEL. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING. I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW, UM, SO WE'RE JUST ASSUMING A 20 FEET DRIVEWAY WHEN THIS DRIVEWAY WAS JUST THIS NEW CURB CUT WAS CREATED USING OUS MACHINES. WE DON'T KNOW IF THE PERMITS WHAT THE PERMITS SAID, RIGHT? YEAH. HONESTLY, AND I APOLOGIZE, WE, WE HAVEN'T RESEARCHED IT A WHOLE LOT. I HAD ASSUMED BECAUSE PUBLIC WORK HAS PUT IT THERE, THAT IT WAS BASED ON AN EXISTING DRIVEWAY. THAT'S USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS. AND BASED ON THE GOOGLE STREET VIEWS, THAT'S PROBABLY WASN'T THE CASE. IT MIGHT'VE BEEN BASED ON THE GATE. AS COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ SUGGESTS, WE DON'T KNOW MR. CHAIR. UM, YES SIR. UH, I'M NOT NECESSARILY SURE THAT IT'S ONE OF THOSE SPOKEN RULES. YOU KNOW, THEY, IT'S VERY COMMON THAT THERE'S SOME, SOME UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, THAT THE RIGHT OF THE APPROACH IS, IS, UM, DETERMINED BY WHERE THERE IS A, A GATE ENTRY FOR PEDESTRIAN ENTRY OR A VEHICULAR ENTRY. AND, AND THAT, THAT RULE IS MOSTLY FOLLOWED WHEN YOU, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF ALLEYS. IF YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A GATE THERE, THEY USUALLY JUST GO IN THERE AND DO IT BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO MASTER PLAN THE ENTIRE AREA AND, AND, AND DETERMINE HOW MANY OPENINGS THERE ARE. SO THE CONTRACTORS, AND SOMETIMES THEY DO IT AND IT'S NOT EVEN IN THEIR BUDGETS TO DO IT, THEY DO IT. BUT THAT BEING SAID, UH, UH, EDWARD, IF, IF, IF THE APPLICANT CHOSE TO FOLLOW THE, THE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT LET'S JUST SAY IT'S DECOMPOSED GRANITE THAT THEY SELECT, RIGHT? IF, IF, BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE A BAD SUGGESTION TO INCORPORATE A CURB ON THE, ON THE EDGES. IT SEPARATES YOUR GRASS FROM YOUR GRANITE BECAUSE IT REALLY, IN THE LONG TERM, HELPS YOU TO CONTINUE TO PUT IN GRANITE COMPACT AND IT STAYS WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES, RIGHT? SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A CONSIDERATION, BUT IF, IF THE APPLICANT WENT THE, THE COMPOSED GRANITE WAY, WOULD THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO US IF THEY, IF SOMEONE TOLD 'EM, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? USE, UH, CONCRETE CURBS, UH, TO CONTAIN, UH, WITH THE COMMISSION APPROVING THE DRIVEWAY HERE, I BELIEVE THAT AT THE STAFF LEVEL, UM, WE COULD WORK WITH THE APPLICANT IN REGARDS TO SPECIFIC MATERIALS WITHIN THE REAR YARD. UH, THIS IS WITHIN THE REAR YARD. SO, UM, UH, CONSIDERING THAT THERE WEREN'T, UH, LARGE AMOUNTS OF IMPERVIOUS PAVEMENT IN INSTALLED, I BELIEVE STAFF COULD WORK WITH THE APPLICANT AT AN ADMINISTRATIVE LEVEL WITHIN THE GENERAL APPROVAL OF A REAR YARD DRIVEWAY. THA THANK YOU EDWARD. AND I WOULD RECOMMEND IT 'CAUSE IT'S REALLY IS A PRETTY DETAILED TO HAVE THAT WHITE LINE SEPARATING GRASS FROM GRANITE. MR. CHAIR, I, I THINK THAT IT'S SIMPLE ENOUGH. UH, RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE PART OF STAFF, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO PROVE AS, UM, UH, WITH STAFF, UH, STIPULATIONS YOU HAVE MOTION? DO WE HAVE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER, FISH? SECOND. SECOND. WE HAVE A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I WOULD JUST ADD TO, UM, THE APPLICANT THAT I THINK THE, UH, CHAIRMAN MADE A GOOD SUGGESTION ON NOT DOING THE CONCRETE AT THIS POINT BECAUSE YOU WANNA SLEEVE ELECTRICAL AND THAT KINDA STUFF. AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU DO WANNA DO SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, JUST 'CAUSE YOU WANNA GET IT DONE, THEN YOU CAN COME BACK AND WORK WITH STAFF THEN, UH, ON AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. SO I THINK THAT'S A, A SOUND ADVICE FROM, FROM THE CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SAVINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. SUM? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE GROUP? AYE. ZER. AYE. THE AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. CAN I JUST GET CLARIFICATION? LAST MEETING WE WERE TOLD WE COULDN'T GO TO THE BATHROOM 'CAUSE WE HAD TO HAVE SIX PEOPLE PRESENT. I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT, WE'RE COMPLYING WITH MR. CHAIR. IF I HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM, I'M GONNA GO TO THE BATHROOM. WE HAVE, AS LONG AS [03:25:01] WE HAVE QUORUM PRESENT, INCLUDING THOSE WE SEE. WE'RE GOOD. JUST MAKING SURE, IF YOU WANNA REQUEST A RE RECESS, WE CAN AS WELL. MIGHT WE TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK? I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS. I'M JUST, I'M RECESS. OKAY, LET'S CALL FOR A FIVE MINUTE RECESS. THANK YOU. YEAH, WHENEVER YOU'RE READY, JEFF? YES, I'D LIKE TO CALL THE HT O C BACK INTO SERVICE. ALRIGHT, ITEM NUMBER 17, H T R C. CASE [18. Address/Description: 327 E KINGS HWY HDRC Case No.: 2021430 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Robert West Request: Construction of a 2story primary and accessory residential structure City Council Dist.: 1] NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 3 0. ADDRESS ITEM 18 STUFF. WE HAD A DUPLICATE NUMBER SO IT'S, OH YEAH. ITEM 18. ADDRESS 3 27 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE AND A TWO STORY REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT LOT ADDRESS. 3 27 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL AT THIS TIME BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH Y STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C ONE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT BACK DIAGRAM. STUDY THE TWO IMMEDIATE ADJACENT PROPERTIES AT MINIMUM TO ILLUSTRATE THE PROPOSED FRONT SETBACK RELATIVE TO THE EXISTING NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES. THE SETBACK OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE SHOULD AT MINIMUM ALIGN WITH THE DEEPEST SETBACK OF THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES. AS NOTED IN FINDING D TWO, THAT THE A STREET SCAPE AND ALIGNS WITH THE PREVAILING PORCH DESIGNS AND PATTERNS IN THE DISTRICT IS NOTED IN FINDINGS F AND G SIX, THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE APPROPRIATE WINDOW SIZES AND PROPORTIONS AND MODIFY THE OVERALL FENESTRATION PATTERN TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES AND HISTORIC PROPORTIONS. AS NOTED IN FINDINGS, K AND D SEVEN, THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDES ACCURATE MEASURED DRAWINGS INDICATE PROPOSED RETAINING WALL AND GRADING INTERVENTIONS, IF APPLICABLE IS NOTING AND FINDING I EIGHT THAT STUCCO FEATURES A TRIAL FINISH. A FINAL SPECIFICATION AND FINISH INFORMATION SHOULD BE PROVIDED IN SUBMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL. NINE. THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS, UH, TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL THAT COMPLY WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS IN THE RECOMMENDATION 10 THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FULL SITE ELEVATIONS OR SECTIONS THAT INCLUDE THE PRIMARY AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURE TOGETHER. AS NOTED IN FINDING QUEUE, THE STIPULATION HAS BEEN MET 11, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS AN ACCURATE EXISTING SITE PLAN AS WELL AS A SITE DEMOLITION PLAN AND TO DETERMINE THE NEW CONSTRUCTIONS IMPACT AND EXISTING TREES AND SITE FEATURES. AS NOTED IN FINDING W 12, THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCED THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY TO A MAXIMUM OF 10 FEET WITH AN APRON THAT FLARES TO A MAXIMUM OF 12 FEET. AS NOTED IN FINDING X 13, THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCES THE PROPOSED IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE TO BE INTRODUCED BY THE PROPOSED BUILDINGS AND HARDSCAPING WHERE FEASIBLE IS NOTED IN FINDING X, THE APPLICANT SHOULD PROVIDE AN ACCURATE SITE PLAN THAT INDICATES THE PROPOSED IMPERVIOUS VERSUS VERSUS PERVIOUS COVERAGE, INCLUDING THE PERCENTAGE OF BLOCK COVERAGE TO BE INTRODUCED AS A RESULT OF PROPOSED BUILDINGS AND HARDSCAPING IMPROVEMENTS. AND 14, THAT THE APPLICANT COMPLY WITH ZONING SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAINS A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. AND I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO THE APPLICANT. DO YOU WANNA INTRODUCE YOURSELF, ROBERT? SURE. YOU CAN SEE. OH, EXCUSE ME. THANK YOU. UM, YES, MY NAME'S ROBERT WEST. I'M THE APPLICANT. 3 2 7 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY IS THE LOCATION. AND I THINK, UM, DESPITE THE LONG LAUNDRY LIST OF STIPULATIONS, I THINK I HAVE A SOLUTION FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM, WHICH I'M SURE WILL HELP, HELP YOU, HELP YOU ALL COME UP WITH A, UH, FAVORABLE SOLUTION. UM, SINCE IT IS GETTING LATE, AND I'M SURE Y'ALL ARE PROBABLY BEEN AT THIS A LOT LONGER THAN I HAVE TODAY, UM, I, THIS IS A 1922 PLATTE. UH, I HAVE THREE PROPERTIES RIGHT HERE AT, UH, EAST KINGS HIGHWAY AT ONE'S 3, 3 1, ONE'S 3, 2 7. UM, THEY WERE PLANTED IN 1922 BEFORE THERE EVER WAS A ZONING LAW IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. UM, EACH OF THE LOTS IS 50 FOOT, 50 FEET WIDE, WHICH MEANS THE TOTAL FRONTAGE IS 150 FEET. UM, THAT MAKES MY JOB A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY A 50 FEET IN THIS DAY AND AGE, IT DOESN'T GO VERY FAR WHEN YOU'RE WE'RE, WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD A CONTEMPORARY MEDITERRANEAN STYLE, UH, BUILD STRUCTURE LIKE I'M TRYING TO BUILD, UH, ON THE PROPERTY. BUT NEVERTHELESS, I THINK WITH, UH, SOME CREATIVE, UH, LEGAL WORK, UH, USING EASEMENTS AND USING, UM, MY, MY OWN GOOD TASTE. I'VE COME UP WITH A VERY, UH, ATTRACTIVE CONTEMPORARY, UH, STRUCTURE THAT HAS SOME HILL TEXAS HILL COUNTRY ACCENTS AS WELL AS, UH, UH, MEDITERRANEAN ACCENTS. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT IN JUST A LITTLE BIT. NOW, THIS PROJECT, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T GO BACK TO 1922, THE PROPERTY GOES BACK TO 1922. I I BECAME PART OF THE PROCESS HERE IN 19, IN 2005 [03:30:01] WHEN I BOUGHT THE PROPERTY AND, UM, ACTUALLY STARTED WITH MY BUILDING PLANS IN 2005. JUST DIDN'T CARRY THROUGH WITH THEM. AND HERE I AM TODAY, , TRYING TO CATCH UP AND REALIZING THAT THE, UM, THE, UH, THE, THE BUREAUCRACY IS, IS, HAS GOTTEN WAY AHEAD OF ME FROM WHAT IT WAS IN 2005. SO, UM, I CANNOT CROSS PROPERTY LINES. I HAVE THREE NARROW LOTS. I HAVE TO WORK INSIDE NARROW, 50 FOOT CONFINEMENTS OF LINES AND THE PORTION OF THE, EVEN THOUGH I'M IN A HISTORICAL DISTRICT AT THE VERY CORNER, I'M AT THE VERY CORNER SOUTHEAST CORNER OF A HISTORICAL DISTRICT CALLED MONTE VISTA. BUT I'M ACTUALLY FRONTING ON TRINITY UNIVERSITY'S PROPERTY. UM, AND THERE'S NOTHING REALLY PARTICULARLY HISTORIC OR CONFORMING ABOUT THE PARTICULAR PART OF THE AREA THAT I LIVE IN. I LIVE, I LIVE TO THE EAST OF MCCULLOUGH. UM, MOST OF THE MORE CLASSIC 1930S, 1940 HOMES THAT Y'ALL HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING TODAY ARE ON THE WEST SIDE OF MCCULLOUGH. SO THE AREA I LIVE IN REALLY HAS VERY LITTLE CONFORMITY TO WHICH WE HAVE TO CONCERN OURSELVES. UM, OTHER THAN THE, THE TEXT OF THE, UH, THE, UH, WHATEVER THE, UH, WHATEVER THE, THE STAFF IS BASED, THEIR CONCEPTUAL ASSESSMENT ON SOME RULE, SOME RULES AND REGS THAT ARE IN THE, UM, HISTORICAL DESIGN CONSIDERATION. SO ANY EVENT, I THINK THAT I, WE HAVE A LOT OF, UH, FLEXIBILITY HERE. I'VE, I HAVE SOME GOOD WAYS TO SOLVE ALL THE STIPULATIONS THAT THE STAFF HAS POINTED OUT. AND I GUESS WE'LL BEGIN WITH A PICTURE OF THE, THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS NUMBER ONE. THERE YOU GO, RIGHT THERE. UM, SO THAT'S A, UM, THAT'S A COP, THAT'S A, THAT'S A PICTURE OF THAT, THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY FROM THE STREET LOOKING UP. UM, IT'S A 5.5% GRADE. IT'S ALL VERY UNIFORM AND CONSISTENT. THERE'S, UM, I'VE HAD A MECHANICAL ENGINEER OUT TO THE SITE. HE'S GIVEN ME, UH, HIS INPUT ON WHAT WE NEED TO DO, WHICH IS INCORPORATED INTO MY PLANS. THAT WHITE, THAT WHITE STAKE YOU SEE THERE BEFORE IN FRONT OF THE FLUORESCENT SIGN THAT SAYS 3, 2 7 IS ACTUALLY THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY LINE. THAT'S, THAT'S THE EDGE OF THE 50 FOOT PROPERTY LINE. THE EASEMENT FOR THE, UH, DRIVEWAY EXISTS TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, AND IT'S A 50 FOOT EASEMENT. UM, THERE'S, GO AHEAD AND GO AHEAD AND GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. THERE'S A COPY OF THE, UH, THIS IS A COPY OF THE, UH, SURVEY, WHICH, UM, WHICH SHOWS, WHICH SHOWS THE, THE, THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION ON THE, THE EXISTING PLATT, AS WELL AS INCORPORATES THE 15 FOOT EASEMENT FOR THE DRIVEWAY. SO THE TOTAL, THE TOTAL PROJECT IS 65 FEET IN WIDTH. UM, IF YOU CONSIDER THE DRIVEWAY ASPECT, WHICH DOES NOT CROSS PROPERTY LINES, UH, IN ORDER TO BE CONSISTENT WITH CURRENT, UH, ZONING GUIDELINES, UH, IN SAN ANTONIO. THIS, THIS MAP ALSO SHOWS YOU, UM, ADJACENT, SORRY. THIS MAP ALSO SHOWS YOU THE, SOME OF THE ADJACENT STRUCTURES AND SOME OF THE SETBACKS, UM, WHICH ARE FIVE FEET FROM THE, THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY. AND, UM, FIVE FOOT FROM THE FENCE LINE. THE REAR, THE REAR SETBACKS ARE THREE FEET, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH, UH, WHAT'S IN THE, UM, WHAT'S IN THE TEXT. LET'S GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON FROM THERE. NOW THIS IS, UM, THIS, THIS SLIDE IS REALLY MEANT TO SHOW ELEVATIONS RELATIVE TO OTHER STRUCTURES. NOW THIS, THIS HOUSE HERE IS THE, THE HOUSE I INITIALLY PURCHASED AT 3 3 1 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY, WHICH IS STILL, STILL MY HOUSE. UM, AND A GARAGE STRUCTURE IN THE BACK. THE HOUSE IS ABOUT A 50 FOOT, IT'S ACTUALLY 47 FEET TO THE ROOF LINE ELEVATION. UH, THE REAR GARAGE IS A 25 FEET ELEVATION. UH, YOU'LL SEE THE, ONCE AGAIN, THE GRADE'S VERY CONSISTENT, VERY EVEN MAKES DRAINAGE, UM, NOT AN ISSUE TO THE MECHANICAL ENGINEER. NOW, THE, THE, THE PICTURE ON THE RIGHT IS, IS THE 3 3 1 EAST KING HIGHWAY HOUSE. THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT IS THE INTERSECTION OF THE, OF LOT 49, WHICH IS OWNED BY MY NEIGHBORS TO THE REAR. AND, AND MY FRONT CORNER, WHICH IS ON THE, UM, IN THIS PICTURE HERE NOW, IT'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S WHAT I CALL A SHOTGUN SHACK, WHICH IS ABOUT FIVE FEET OFF THE, THE RIGHT OF WAY. UM, AND THAT FENCE LINE THAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE IS NOT MY FENCE. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE REAR NEIGHBOR'S FENCE. AND THAT'S SITTING RIGHT ON THE, UH, CITY RIGHT OF WAY FOR EAST KINGS HIGHWAY. SO THERE'S ESSENTIALLY NO SETBACKS ON THE, ON THE LOTS, IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO MY LOT. UM, AND FOR THE, FOR THE PERMANENT STRUCTURE THAT THERE, THERE'S A SPY FOOT SETBACK AND IT'S BASICALLY JUST A SHOTGUN SHACK FOR, I GUESS, UTILITY THINGS. AND THERE'S A GATE THERE THAT ENTERS THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY ON [03:35:01] LAUREL HEIGHTS, WHICH IS THE PERSON WHO OWNS THIS PROPERTY. UM, BUT IT'S BEEN, HASN'T BEEN OPENED SINCE I'VE, IN THE LAST 10 YEARS AS FAR AS I KNOW. SO IT'S, IT'S BASICALLY THIS, THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE COMPETITION HERE. THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE CONFORMITY RIGHT HERE IS, IT'S BASICALLY NOT MUCH TO CONFORM WITH AS FAR AS I CAN SEE. SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON. UM, THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE FRONT OF THE, OF MY PROPOSED STRUCTURE, WHICH, LIKE I SAID IS, UM, UH, IT'S 45 FEET ACROSS, WHICH GIVES ME THE FIVE FOOT EASEMENT ON THE, WHICH GIVES ME THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK ON THE WEST SIDE WITH THE NEIGHBOR'S FENCE. IT ALSO GIVES ME A, UM, A POTENTIAL 15 FOOT DRIVEWAY. NOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I'VE DISPUTED WITH STAFF BASED ON MY ENGINEERING REPORT. 'CAUSE I NEED, I NEED TO RELY ON THE DRIVEWAY FOR DRAINAGE AND TO, TO, TO NARROW IT DOWN TO 10 FEET. I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE CURBS OR SOMETHING TO CONTROL, UH, RUNOFF. THERE'S ALSO A, UM, A GUTTER SYSTEM THAT HE SUGGESTED HE BEING THE, UH, DAVID GIBBLER, HE'S A MECHANICAL ENGINEER. HE SUGGESTED THE, UM, IT SAYS, IT SAYS GUTTER, IT SAYS GUTTER, GUTTER, FINISHED CONCRETE. THAT'S, THAT'S ALL WITHIN THE FIVE FOOT, UH, SETBACK ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. AND THAT WAS, UH, NOT MY DESIGN PREFERENCE, BUT THAT WAS THE SUGGESTION OF THE MECHANICAL ENGINEER IN ORDER TO FACILITATE WATER RUNOFF, EVEN THOUGH THE LOT IS BASICALLY, UM, A STRAIGHT FIVE, 5.5% GRADE. UM, LET ME SEE. LOOK, I HAVE SOME, I WILL JUST GO THROUGH THE STAFF STIPULATIONS HERE AND TRY TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. THAT'S, THAT'S OKAY. THAT'S THE, UH, EAST ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE, WHICH SHOWS THE GRADE RELATIVE TO THE, UM, TO THE, TO THE HOUSE AND THE FOUNDATION, WHICH ARE OBVIOUSLY HORIZONTAL. UM, 5.5%. IT'S CONSISTENT ALL THE WAY BACK. THAT'S THE REAR GARAGE STRUCTURE. UM, ON THE FAR RIGHT THERE, WHICH IS A, UM, BASICALLY IT'S A TWO STORY GARAGE. THERE'S NO, UM, THERE'S PLUMBING, THERE'S UTILITIES, BUT THERE'S NO KITCHEN. IT'S JUST A, UM, BASICALLY A GUEST GUEST HOUSE. UM, THE, THE WINDOW PATTERN AS I, AS I SAID, AS I PROMISED IS, IS, IS A LITTLE BIT ECLECTIC, WHICH I UNDERSTAND FROM PREVIOUS DISCUSSION. SOME PEOPLE FIND THAT VERY INTERESTING. I, I PERSONALLY DO TOO, AND THAT'S WHY I CHOSE IT AND DESIGNED IT IN SUCH FASHION. UM, LET'S GO AHEAD TO THE, OKAY, THIS IS, THIS IS THE WEST ELEVATION. THIS WOULD BE THE ELEVATION FROM MY NEIGHBOR'S LOT. THE ONE THAT HAS THE WOODEN FENCE ON THE, ON THE FRONT EDGE WITH EAST KINGS HIGHWAY AND THE SHOTGUN SHACK. THIS IS WHAT YOU'D SEE IF YOU WERE IN THE SHOTGUN SHACK LOOKING ACROSS THE FENCE. UM, NOBODY, NOBODY LIVES IN THE SHOTGUN SHACK, BY THE WAY. IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST THERE FOR UTILITIES. SO THIS IS, UM, NORTH ELEVATION. THIS WOULD BE THE REAR OF THE HOUSE, NOT INCLUDING THE GARAGE, WHICH WOULD BE SET BACK AS A SEPARATE, UM, SEPARATE BUILDING, A DETACHED GARAGE AS IT SAYS. AND THERE'S A APPROXIMATELY A FOUR FOOT, A FOUR FOOT WIDE PASSAGEWAY IN BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE HOUSE, WHICH, UM, WOULD BE A CONCRETE SIDEWALK, UM, WHICH WOULD FACILITATE ENTRANCE INTO THE CENTRAL COURTYARD OR CENTRAL, UM, PATIO AREA, WHICH IS GOING TO BE DESIGNATED AS A, UM, WHICH IS GONNA CONTAIN A SWIMMING POOL. AND YOU WANT TO BOUNCE IT, BOUNCE IT FORWARD, KEN, THERE. GETTING BACK TO THAT, THE SWIMMING POOL DIDN'T TURN OUT REAL WELL IN THIS, IN THIS RENDITION. I DREW IT INTO THE, UM, I DREW IT INTO THE PROJECT, BUT IT'S A, IT'S APPROXIMATELY A 50 FOOT POOL WITH A 10 FOOT WIDTH. AND, UM, I THINK YOU CAN SEE IT THERE AT THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND CORNER OF THIS, UM, OF THIS, OF THIS, UM, RENDITION OVER, UH, OVERVIEW, AN OVER OVERHEAD RENDITION. UH, THIS IS THE SECOND FLOOR OVERVIEW RENDITION, WHICH, UH, INCLUDES A GUEST ROOM WITH BATH AND A, UM, BASICALLY A GAME ROOM, PARTY ROOM, UH, AREA WITH A ATTACHED DECK DECK THAT LOOKS OUT TO THE SOUTH, WHICH, UH, HAS EXCELLENT VIEWS OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, THE PROPERTY ITSELF SITS UP ON PROBABLY ONE OF THE HIGHEST, UM, PROMINENCES BETWEEN DOWNTOWN AND LOOP FOUR 10. SO THE VIEWS ARE TRULY, PROBABLY THE MOST HISTORIC THING ABOUT THE WHOLE SITE AS FAR AS I CAN SEE IS THE, UM, THE, THE POSITIONING OF THE PROPERTY IN RELATION TO THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LAND. I CAN, YOU CAN LITERALLY SEE MY HOUSE, THE, THE ADJACENT HOUSE. YOU CAN SEE FROM, UH, 2 81 NORTH GOING OVER 35 IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK QUICK. SO THE VIEWS ARE EXCEPTIONAL. THIS IS, THIS IS THE, UH, THIS IS THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AT 3 3 1 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY IS PROPERTY. THIS, THIS CAME WITH A PROPERTY WHEN I BOUGHT IT IN 2005. AND ONCE AGAIN, THE, UH, THE REAR GARAGE IS DETACHED. [03:40:01] IT HAS NO UTILITIES IN IT. UM, THREE CAR GARAGE AND IT'S A 25 FOOT, UM, ELEVATION AND A 10 FOOT DRIVEWAY . HERE'S THE, UH, HERE'S THE SURVEY OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH I THINK WILL REFLECT WHAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING. UM, IT, IT DOES NOT CONTAIN LOT 50, WHICH IS THE 3 27 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY, WHICH IS THE, THE PROPERTY UNDER DISCUSSION PRESENTLY, NOR DOES IT CONTAIN THE, THE 15 FOOT EASEMENT, WHICH WAS SURVEYED OUT AND ATTACHED TO THE, TO THE PREVIOUS, UM, SURVEY THAT WE LOOKED AT. AS FAR AS, UM, GO AHEAD. THIS, THIS IS, THIS IS MY, UM, THIS IS MY IDEA OF A, OF IMPER OF IMPERVIOUS GROUND COVER, WHICH IS A, UH, UM, ZOO ESCAPING, WHICH WOULD BE IN THE, UH, PATIO AREA AROUND THE POOL AND IN SMALL AREAS AROUND THE FRONT, FRONT PORCH OF THE PROPERTY. THE AREA TO THE, TO THE EAST OF THE DRIVEWAY WOULD ALSO BE, UH, ZEROSCAPE SIMILAR TO THIS. IT HAS CURRENTLY, IT'S PLANTED WITH OLIVE TREES, WHICH I PLANTED. THERE'S, THERE'S 12, 12 OLIVE TREES, UM, THAT LINE THE AREA ADJACENT TO WHERE THE EASEMENT IS. AND GO AHEAD. AND THIS IS, OH, GO AHEAD. GO BACK TO THAT LAST ONE. THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL, SIR, MR. CHAIR, I'M GONNA HAVE TO EXCUSE MYSELF. I APOLOGIZE. I ESPECIALLY APOLOGIZE TO YOU, SIR. I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO SEE THIS PROJECT CONTINUE. I RECOMMEND A, A, A A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, BUT FROM WHAT I SEE, I, UH, HAVE A DEEP APPRECIATION FOR YOUR, UH, UH, AESTHETIC SENSIBILITIES AND OR ARCHITECTURAL CAPABILITIES. AND MY WINDOWS, OH, HOLD ON. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, DOES THIS MEAN THE MEETING STOPS? BECAUSE IF NOT, MAYBE YOU CAN JUST BE ONE MINUTE AND WE CAN DO A MOTION. NO, WE CAN STILL COUNT JOHN LAO VIRTUALLY, WHATEVER. I'M JUST WANTING TO MAKE A SURE. THIS IS, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SOUTH, SOUTH, SOUTH VIEW OF OFF THE PROPERTY, LOOKING TOWARDS, UH, THE TRINITY UNIVERSITY AND THE PARKING LOT, AND EVENTUALLY THEY PLAN ON HAVING, UH, ATHLETIC FIELDS THERE. I, UM, I PERSONALLY, UH, SINGLE-HANDEDLY DEFEATED A, UH, A COMMUNITY THERE, A BED, UM, A GARDEN COMMUNITY THAT WAS PROPOSED TO BE BUILT THERE ON THAT PROPERTY. AND, UM, TRINITY ENDED UP, TRINITY ENDED UP BUYING THE PROPERTY INSTEAD OF THE DEVELOPERS THAT WERE GOING TO PUT IN A GARDEN HOME DEVELOPMENT ACROSS THE STREET. UM, SIR MR. CHAIR? YES, YES, MS GROUP, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF, UH, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, UM, NEEDING TO LEAVE, AND I THINK THAT WAY WE GET A CLEAR VOTE. UM, THE, THERE'S A LOT OF STIPULATIONS AND NORMALLY WHAT WE WOULD DO AT THIS, IN THIS, WITH THIS LARGE CASE AND LARGE PROJECT, WE WOULD ASK YOU TO COME TO A D R C WHERE WE GET A LITTLE BIT MORE DISCUSSION ON WHY THESE STIPULATIONS ARE REQUIRED. AND MAYBE SOME OF THE DRAWINGS YOU CAN ALSO MAKE CLEAR. 'CAUSE UM, AT SOME POINT, I MEAN, THIS COULD BE A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FIRST, BUT I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS UNANSWERED, LIKE LOT COVERAGE. AND I DO ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE ARE GONNA NEED SOME MORE, UM, DRAWINGS. LIKE I HAVE SIMPLE ANSWERS. YEAH, NO, WELL, THE THING IS, I THINK THAT WE WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE, AND I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE FORUM TO HAVE THIS DETAILED CONVERSATION. THERE'S A LOT OF STIPULATIONS. I MEAN, YOU CAN SAY YOU'RE GONNA COMPLY THEM ALL. YES. BUT WE CAN'T ACCEPT THAT REALLY. I MEAN, I'LL TELL YOU ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS IS LOT COVERAGE. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT ON THAT LOT. WE HAVE NO, THERE'S NO EXTRA LIKE MEASUREMENTS, THE SETBACK, FRONT SETBACK, THERE'S NOT AN EXACT DRAWING WITH MEASUREMENTS. SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF, MAYBE THE DETAILS THAT WE'RE MISSING. WELL, I THINK I MENTIONED THEM, BUT, UM, THE LOT SITS ON BEDROCK, SO THE IMPERVIOUS GROUND COVERS REALLY A MOOT POINT BECAUSE, YEAH. SO THOSE ARE HISTORIC GUIDELINES. AND THEN I'M GONNA TELL YOU ONE THING. YOU DID MENTION THE PROPERTY ON THE LEFT HAD A FIVE FOOT, BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE ONE, YOU SHOWED US PICTURES OF THE 3 31, WHICH IS SET BACK MUCH FURTHER. WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT, AT A PROJECT THAT'S SET BACK THAT FAR, SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. SO THOSE ARE KIND OF SOME OF THE ITEMS, IT SEEMS LIKE, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S IT'S OWNER'S CHOICE AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR IS, IS IS IT'S SO NONCONFORMING THAT IT'S, IT SEEMS IRRELEVANT, BUT IT WAS THERE HISTORICALLY . SO OWNER CHOICE, IF I COULD, BUT I WANTED TO MOVE TO D R C, SO I WOULD SECOND, THAT'S GONNA BE A MOTION. I WOULD SECOND THAT. AND I THINK THAT THAT, THAT THE D R C IS IN, UM, THE INTEREST OF YOUR PROJECT OCCURRING. IT'S NOT IN THE OPPOSITE INTEREST. OKAY. OKAY. WELL, I THINK IT'S A GREAT PROJECT. I THINK IT'D BE A GREAT ASSET FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UM, IF WE CAN JUST FLIP THROUGH THE, WELL, YOU GO AHEAD. I MEAN, I'M JUST GONNA FLIP THROUGH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD SO YOU CAN GET A FLAVOR FOR, UM, WELL, WE DO HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AND, UM, PERFECT. THERE'S NO OTHER DISCUSSION. I'LL, I'LL CALL FOR A VOTE, JUST HAVE A QUICK COMMENT. I, I THINK IF STAFF COULD HELP, UH, PREPARE THE APPLICANT FOR THAT D R C PARTICULARLY WITH SOME [03:45:01] OF THE, THE, UH, GRAPHICS THAT ARE BEING ASKED FOR IN THE, UH, STIPULATIONS SO THAT IT'S NOT JUST HOPES AND PROMISES AND HANDS HAND WAVING THE AIR, BUT THERE'S A ACTUAL DOCUMENT WE CAN POINT TO THAT SHOWS US THESE DIMENSIONS THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. SO WE'LL CALL PLEASE CHAIRMAN. COMMISSIONER UNE? YES, SIR. UH, NOT TO BE CRITICAL, BUT I DON'T THINK THIS APP APPLICATION SHOULD HAVE EVER COME TO H D R C WITH 14 STIPULATIONS. I BELIEVE THESE ISSUES SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED AND, AND, UH, THEY, THEY HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED AND I HAVE SIMPLE ANSWERS AND SIMPLE SOLUTIONS AND THE APPLICANT SHOULD HAVE ADDRESSED THOSE AND COMPLIED WITH THEM, OR THIS, UH, APPLICATION SHOULD NOT HAVE COME TO US. THIS, THIS IS TAKING WAY TOO MUCH TIME. THANK YOU FOR THOSE COMMENTS. UM, HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. SERENA. AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. SOAN? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRO AYE. ZER AYE. UNE AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION PASSES. SO STAFF WILL GET WITH YOU AND SCHEDULE A D R C. OKAY. AT, UM, THE EARLIEST TIME POSSIBLE. YEAH, A S A P. THAT'S FINE. NAME. LOVE TO WORK WITH A WORK WITH YOU ON THIS PROJECT. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY. ARE YOU OUTTA HERE? NO, WE HAVE ANOTHER CASE. I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH YOU. OKAY. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. THANKS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. OKAY. [19. Address/Description: 232 LAVACA ST HDRC Case No.: 2021380 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Clint Belew/BelewHouse LLC Request: Removal of existing additions, construction of a new addition City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM NUMBER 19, H D R C. CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH THREE EIGHT. ADDRESS, 3 2 32 LACA. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO ONE, REMOVE THE NON-ORIGINAL TWO STORY REAR EDITION. TWO, CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY REAR EDITION, AND THREE, REPLACE THE EXISTING NON-ORIGINAL FRONT PORCH WITH WRONGED COLUMNS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH P STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE, THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RETURNING TO H D R C ONE, THAT THE PROPOSED ADDITION BE REDUCED IN HEIGHT AND MASSING WHERE FEASIBLE TO BE CONSISTENT WITH REAR ADDITIONS FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT SUPPORTING IT TO PRIMARY STRUCTURES OR COMPARABLE TO THE HEIGHT AND SCALE OF THE EXISTING REAR ADDITION TO BE REMOVED. AS NOTED IN FINDINGS G AND J TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT MODIFY THE PROPOSED ROOF FORM TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING ROOF FORMS ON THE LOT AND THE SURROUNDING HISTORIC ROOF FORMS AS NOTED IN BINDING J STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATED A SIMILAR ROOF FORM AS THE EXISTING ADDITION. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE APPROPRIATE WINDOW SIZES AND PROPORTIONS AND MODIFY THE OVERALL FENESTRATION PATTERN IS NOTED IN FINDING H FOUR THAT THE APPLICANT EXPLORE MATERIAL PALLETS THAT MINIMIZE THE VISUAL WEIGHT OF THE REAR. ADDITION IS NOTED IN FINDING I FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT RETAIN ALL EXISTING WINDOW LOCATIONS AND RESTORE THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS SIX, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FINAL WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS THAT MEET STAFF STIPULATIONS AS LISTED IN THE RECOMMENDATION SEVEN THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF THAT MEETS THE STIPULATIONS LISTED IN THE RECOMMENDATION AND EIGHT THAT THE APPLICANT RETAINS ALL EXISTING CHIMNEYS, DORM, VENT, DORM OR SHINGLES AND OTHER SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS. AND THE APPLICANT CLINT SHOULD BE ON THE LINE. YEAH, I APOLOGIZE MR. , I JUST NOW ADDED YOU. I'M HERE. GREAT. HELLO? YES SIR, GO AHEAD. UM, WELL JUST TO START THROUGH, I GUESS LOOKING AT THE, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, OBVIOUSLY WE CAME, UH, BEFORE AND WE MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS, I THINK, UM, I'VE BEEN TO A COUPLE MEETINGS AS WELL AND TRYING TO, UM, TRYING TO ADJUST AND, AND ACTUALLY GET WHAT YOU GUYS ARE ASKING FOR AS FAR AS, UM, THE RECOMMENDATIONS STARTING WITH FIVE THROUGH EIGHT. UM, I'M, I'M REALLY NOT EVEN SURE MAYBE WHY THEY'RE THERE, ONLY BECAUSE WE'VE, WE'RE, WE'RE DEFINITELY DOING THAT, I THINK, AND, AND WILLING TO DO ALL OF THAT. AS FAR AS THE STANDING SCENE ROOF, UM, WE'RE WILLING TO DO EVERYTHING CORRECTLY. UM, ALL THE EXISTING WINDOWS WOULD BE, UH, RESTORED AND OR, UM, MARVIN HAS A PRODUCT THAT WE WOULD MOST LIKELY BE USING, WHICH IS THE DOUBLE SASH, UM, WOOD INTERIOR WITH CLAD EXTERIOR. UM, IT'S MADE AND USED I THINK MANY, MANY TIMES IN, UH, IN THIS AREA. SO AGAIN, NOT NOT MOVING ANY, ANY WINDOWS OR ANYTHING THAT IS ON THE CURRENT HOUSE. EVERYTHING WOULD BE STAYING, UM, STAYING HISTORIC. UM, YOU'LL NOTICE IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE, THE PICTURE THAT'S UP THAT WE DID, I GUESS WHAT WAS ASKED, UH, WE BELIEVE WE DID AS FAR AS THE, UM, REDUCING THE, UM, THE HEIGHT AND MASSING, WHICH WAS NUMBER ONE AS [03:50:01] WELL AS PUTTING IN, UM, I THINK WHAT WAS A NICE COMBINATION BETWEEN THE, THE OLD AND THE NEW AS, AS ASKED AS FAR AS CREATING A, A SEPARATE STRUCTURE, AN ALIEN STRUCTURE, I GUESS IS, IS WHAT WAS THE TERM WAS USED, BUT, BUT ATTACHING IT, UM, IN A WAY WHERE YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE BLACK METAL IS, UM, TO THE HISTORICAL STRUCTURE AND, AND REALLY GRASPING THE DEFINITION BETWEEN THE TWO, BUT ALSO WORKING WELL WITHIN, UH, WITH EACH OTHER. WE ALSO, AS FAR AS, UM, NUMBER FOUR GOES, THE MATERIAL PALETTE, WE CHANGED IT TO, UH, TO VERY MUCH GO WITH WHAT IS IN, IN THE AREA. THERE'S SEVERAL HOMES, I THINK WE HAVE PICTURES ATTACHED THAT HAVE THESE AS WELL. AND THEN I THINK THE, UH, THE ROOF FORM WAS ALSO MENTIONED LASTLY, WHICH WE'RE JUST SHOWING THAT'S TWO HOUSES DOWN. MANY OF THE HOUSES IN THE AREA HAVE THE, UH, FLAT ROOFS, THE METAL, THE MODERN, UH, ATTACHMENTS LIKE YOU'LL SEE THERE AS WELL. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. YES, MA'AM. . SO, UH, AND MAYBE THE APPLICANT IS COMPLYING WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS, BUT MAYBE I ALSO FEEL LIKE, UM, STAFF IS PUTTING A LOT OF THESE STIPULATIONS BECAUSE SOME OF THESE DRAWINGS A LITTLE BIT OFF ON DIMENSIONS AND IT MAYBE JUST, JUST WAS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS CLARIFIED. UM, THOSE DRAWINGS ARE BETTER. I GUESS IT WAS THE, THE OTHERS, UM, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, AND THIS IS A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. ARE YOU BUILDING, UH, JUST YOU'RE ENCLOSING WHAT'S EXISTING, RIGHT? OR ARE YOU ADDING TO IT TOO? UM, CURRENTLY THERE'S, IF YOU LOOK AT, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A GOOD PICTURE. YEAH. SO CURRENTLY IT'S, IT'S ONLY TWO FEET, UH, LARGER OFF OF THE BACK THERE. SO COMING TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE, OF THE LOT SO THAT, THAT BACK PORCH, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY JUST DISTRAUGHT, IT NEEDS TO BE, UM, COMPLETELY REALLY REMOVED AND FIXED. AND THEN THERE'S TWO SIDE STRUCTURES. THEY'RE ALL ADDITIONS. UM, WE, WE, UH, LAST TIME DISCUSSED THAT, BUT THEY'RE JUST, THEY'RE NEWER ADDITIONS, SO IT'D BE BEING REMOVED, ALL OF THAT. AND THEN THE, THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE IS ONLY TWO FEET. IT WOULD GO ALL THE WAY TO THE SIDE THERE ON THE LEFT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS ONE, UH, FROM THE REAR. AND THEN IT WOULD ONLY COME BACK TWO EXTRA FEET . YEAH. AND I GUESS THE, AND THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, BUT MAYBE, YES, I WOULD SAY ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, UM, STAFF WAS FINDING MAYBE DIFFICULT AND THE CONCEPTUAL IS THE MASSING OF THIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND THE MODIFICATIONS OF THE FOOTPRINT. RIGHT. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS FEEL, BUT I, I KIND OF ALSO FEEL AS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE PROJECT AND THERE MAY BE SOME MISUNDERSTANDING, RIGHT. THERE. WAS THAT A QUESTION FOR STAFF? I THINK, I GUESS I JUST WANNA HEAR FROM MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS MORE ON, I, I GUESS THE WHOLE REASON THE, A LOT OF THE STIPULATIONS AND CONCERNS THAT I COULD READ FROM STAFF AND MY CONCERNS WOULD BE ON THE ADDITION. AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND. NOW, HAS THERE BEEN A D R C FOR THIS? THERE HAS BEEN. AND, UH, MYSELF AND MS. SAVINA WERE THERE. WE DID, UH, LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS SUBMITTAL, UH, COMPARING IT TO THE, UH, ONE WE SEE NOW. AND, UH, THE PREVIOUS ONE HAD A ROOFTOP DECK THAT MADE THE, THE PARAPET TALLER AND THEY'VE RE UH, REMOVED IT HERE. THEY'VE, UM, HAVE THIS DARKER RECESSED, UH, SEPARATION BETWEEN THE EXISTING HOUSE AND THE ADDITION TO SEPARATE IT. SO IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THE, UM, REAR ADDITION WAS JUST SLAMMING INTO THE HISTORIC BUILDING. WE TALKED ABOUT WINDOW PROPORTION RELATING IT, UH, TO EXISTING PROPORTIONS. UM, WE TALKED ABOUT ON THE WEST ELEVATION. UM, YEAH, THE ONE ON THE BOTTOM, UH, WHICH IS CURRENTLY JUST SHOWN AS A, UH, STUCCO WALL THAT, UM, ASKED THE APPLICANT TO STUDY A RECESS OR SOMETHING ON THAT SIDE AS WELL TO, UH, DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE HISTORIC AND THE NEW, UH, AND ALSO LOOKING AT FENESTRATION, ADDING FENESTRATION [03:55:01] ON THAT F UH, FACADE SO THAT YOU DON'T, SO, UM, YOU DON'T JUST HAVE A TWO STORY STUCCO WALL. UM, THE, THE SCALE OF THE REAR ADDITION, UH, I DON'T THINK WE HAD AN ISSUE WITH, UH, OR I DIDN'T. AND, UM, THE DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN THE OLD AND THE NEW, UM, THE FACT THAT HE'S USING CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS AND, UM, I PERSONALLY, I DIDN'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT, UH, BUT ASKED HIM TO LOOK AT STUDYING, UH, WINDOW PROPORTIONS AND FENESTRATION, ESPECIALLY ON THE WEST FACADE. BUT THESE ARE ACTUALLY ITEMS THAT YOU WOULD SAY YOU STILL ARE CONCERNED WITH, RIGHT, BECAUSE I DON'T SEE MUCH CHANGES ON IT. UM, I'M, YEAH, I WOULD STILL SAY THOSE ARE CONCERNS. YEAH. AND SO THAT, I GUESS THAT'S WHERE I'M SAYING IS I DON'T KNOW IF THE APPLICANT'S ACTUALLY REALLY UNDERSTANDING THIS TYPE OF COMMUNICATION. UM, THE ELEX STRUCTURE IS TALLER THAN THEIR PRIMARY STRUCTURE. AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INCONVENIENCE ABOUT THAT, MR. CHAIR? I DO NOT. IT'S FROM THE FRONT FACADE, IT'S, UH, SET WAY BACK AND, UH, YOU ACTUALLY DON'T SEE IT FROM THE, UH, STREET ELEVATION I ATTENDED. UM, THIS IS COMMISSIONER SAVINO. I ATTENDED A COUPLE OF THE A D R C MEETINGS AND WE DID TALK ADDRESS SPECIFIC AREAS AND, UM, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER OR THE CHAIR AND I, UM, DO SEE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY ON HOW TO ADDRESS AND, AND AMELIORATE SOME OF OUR CONCERNS. UM, I DO BELIEVE THIS PROPERTY AND MR. BELU, CAN YOU, UM, CONFIRM THIS LOT IS A CORNER LOT? YES, MA'AM. IT IS. AND SO FOR, FOR MY APPROACH, I'M LOOKING AT NOT ONLY THE FRONT ELEVATION, BUT THE RIGHT OF WAY. I BELIEVE IT'S ON THE WEST SIDE, AND I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. THAT CHANGES THE GAME FOR WHAT IS CONSIDERING WHAT'S CONSIDERED A RESPONSIVE ADDITION TO A HISTORIC HOUSE. UM, I DO FIND THAT THERE ARE, UM, TOO MANY ITEMS THAT RUN COUNTER TO THE GUIDELINES. UM, FOR, FOR MY CONSIDERATION FOR MY SUPPORT. UM, FIRST OF ALL, I APPRECIATE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ATTENDING THOSE DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSIONS. I HAVE NOT, UH, COMMITTEES, UH, I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ATTEND THOSE RECENTLY. AND, UM, I, I THINK FOR ME, THE, THE ISSUE THAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS THAT, UH, YOU CAN, IF YOU'RE DOING A CONTEMPORARY EDITION, FIRST OF ALL, IT SHOULD BE, UH, DEFERENTIAL TO THE MAIN HOUSE AND YOU CAN INTRODUCE CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, BUT NOT CONTEMPORARY FORM. OR YOU CAN INTRODUCE CONTEMPORARY FORM, BUT DRAW UPON TRADITIONAL MATERIALS. IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THIS IS DOING EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE GUIDELINES. IT'D ALMOST BE ONE THAT I WOULD WANNA INCLUDE IN THE, IN THE GUIDELINES WHERE THEY GOT THE BIG RED X ON IT IS DON'T DO THIS. I I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS IS TRENDING IN THE RIGHT WAY. AND IT'S NOT. AND I'M SORRY IF IT FEELS IS, IS I KNOW THIS IS NOT TRENDING IN THE RIGHT WAY. IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES OR THE SPIRIT OF THOSE. UM, SO I'M WONDERING IF THE APPLICANT WENT BACK, TOOK A LOOK AT THE MASSING OF THAT HISTORIC PORCH, WHICH BY THE WAY, I'M TOTALLY IN, IN FAVOR OF YOU REMOVING AND REMOVING THE ADDITIONS AND, AND REALLY TAKING THIS DOWN TO THE CORE OF THE HOUSE THAT IS STILL, UM, RELATIVELY WELL MAINTAINED AND, AND CAN BE, YOU KNOW, UH, REHABILITATED. BUT TAKE A LOOK AT THAT MASSING AND SEE IF YOU COULD TRANSLATE THAT INTO CONTEMPORARY LANGUAGE, UH, EXTENDING OUT A LITTLE FURTHER, YOU KNOW, TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE LOT AS YOU NEED TO, BUT, BUT SEEING IF THAT COULD BE, BEGIN TO GIVE YOU SOME, UH, DIRECTION IN HOW TO ARTICULATE THIS ADDITION. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW I THINK IT'S TOO FAR OUTSIDE THE MARGINS IN ALL CATEGORIES FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT. THANK YOU. AND THE WINDOW FENESTRATIONS, RIGHT? I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT, YEAH, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER LITTLE CATEGORY. IT'S LIKE, OKAY, LIKE THE EXACTLY, UH, WINDOW BY ADMINISTRATIONS MATERIALITY, MASSING, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST THE DETAILING THERE'S IN EVERY SINGLE ONE. IT, IT TENDS TO DEVIATE FROM KIND OF THE NORM. SO I, I WOULD, I WOULD SEE IF YOU COULD FIND, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU DON'T DEVIATE IN FOUR OF THEM, BUT THERE'S ONE THAT'S THE TWIST, THAT'S THE, OKAY, HERE'S HOW I GET THIS CONTEMPORARY, HOW I CAN HAVE MY, MY AESTHETIC, UH, VOICE HEARD HERE WITHOUT FEELING LIKE I'M TRAMPLING THE [04:00:01] CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. SO MY QUESTION HERE, IS IT POSSIBLE TO, UM, TO SCROLL DOWN TO SOME OF THE PICTURES OF THE, THE NEIGHBOR'S HOUSES? I WAS, I WAS SHOWING YEAH, LET'S, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND THERE'S A LOT OF STIPULATIONS. I WAS, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY FEELS COMFORTABLE DOING A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH STIPULA. I MEAN, IT'S JUST, I FEEL LIKE STIPULATION WENT THROUGH FIVE ARE ALL THE ITEMS THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. I THINK YOU TOUCHED HIM ON D R C AND HE COMPLIES WITH ITEMS FIVE THROUGH EIGHT, OR SHOULD THIS JUST BE MOVED TO A D R C AGAIN? WELL, I WOULD SU SUGGEST IF WE GO TO A D R C THAT WE, UH, HAVE A FEW MORE VOICES THERE. UM, PLEASE. YEAH. AND JUST TO, TO RESPOND TO THE APPLICANT, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU SCROLL DOWN AND SHOW SOME OF THE OTHER CONTEMPORARY ONES? WELL, THAT'S GREAT. I MEAN, 'CAUSE THESE ARE REALLY WELL-KNOWN, WELL-PUBLISHED, UH, AWARD-WINNING K YOU KNOW, UH, PROJECTS. AND WHAT WE SEE HERE THEN THOUGH, LIKE THE GLASS CONNECTOR IS SOMETHING THAT IS AS MINIMAL AS POSSIBLE AND IT'S, IT, IT SNEAKS IN UNDERNEATH THE HISTORIC, UH, ROOF OVERHANG. UM, IT, IT KIND OF DISSOLVES THAT CONNECTION BETWEEN OLD AND NEW, THE HISTOR. THE, UH, THE NEW ADDITION IS HANDLED IN, IN CONTEMPORARY MATERIALS, BUT THERE IS A HORIZONTAL NATURE TOOTH THAT RE RECALLS KIND OF THE WATERFALL SIDING. AND IN, IN SCALE IT'S GENERALLY SMALLER THAN THE HISTORIC CORE. IT STILL STANDS BACK FROM THE FRONT OF THE HISTORIC. SO IN ALL WAYS IT'S DEFERENTIAL EVEN THOUGH IT'S CONTEMPORARY. SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF LESSONS THAT CAN BE LEARNED FROM THAT. AND I, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO LOOK AT THOSE AND LOOK AT OTHER EXAMPLES, UH, TO FIND THAT. AND SOMETIMES IT CAN BE IN REALLY SUBTLE WAYS THAT YOU MAY MAKE THOSE DISTINCTIONS. YEAH, I AGREE. I ALSO, UH, I DO WANNA POINT OUT THAT'S ALSO ON THE FRONT FACING, UH, LAVACCA OF THIS, OF THE STREET. I UNDERSTAND THERE WERE A CORNER, BUT, AND THEN IF YOU SCROLL DOWN TO ONE MORE, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT ONE TWO 20 LAVACCA, YOU CAN SEE IT'S A RATHER LARGE ADDITION THERE AS WELL COMING, UH, COMING INTO THE, TO THE OLD HOUSE. BUT PO POINT BEING IS WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO, AND, AND I HEAR WHAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING, I WOULD LOVE, UH, LIKE THEY SAID TOO, IF WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO GO BACKWARDS TO, UH, SPEAK TO, TO SOME OTHERS ALSO, JUST TO THROW IT OUT THERE, WE DID, UM, SEND OVER, WE JUST DIDN'T GET AN IN TIME FOR IT TO BE ON THIS. UM, BUT WE, WE DID SEND OVER ACTUAL LIKE A SCHEDULE FOR WINDOWS AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE AS WELL AS ADDRESS THE, UH, THE WEST SIDE AS THE, UM, AS, AS WAS SAID FOR US. SO, BUT IT JUST, I'M SORRY IT WASN'T ABLE TO BE, UH, TO BE PUT ON THIS, UH, THIS SLIDE. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD MOVE THAT THIS GOES, UH, BE REFERRED TO A D R C AND IF IT CAN BE ON A TUESDAY, I CAN MAKE IT. THANK YOU. SECOND, I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION. I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. SINA. AYE. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE THAT SIR? AYE LFO AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU MR. BALLOU. THANK YOU MR. CALDERONI. ARE YOU THERE? MR. CALDERONI? YOU MIGHT NEED TO UNMUTE. YEAH. ARE YOU THERE? YEAH, I AM HERE. PERFECT. RACHEL, GO AHEAD. [20. Address/Description: 615 E EVERGREEN HDRC Case No.: 2021360 Historic District Name: Tobin Hill Applicant: TX3 PROPERTIES LLC Request: Demolition of garage with new construction, construction of a 1story rear addition, window replacement, fenestration modifications, front porch modifications, roof replacement, and driveway replacement City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 20 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 360 6 15 EAST EVERGREEN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE DEMOLISH THE EXISTING REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. TWO, CONSTRUCT A NEW ONE STORY 308 SQUARE FOOT REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WITH AN ATTACHED CARPORT. THREE, REDUCE THE LENGTH OF THE FRONT PORCH. FOUR, CONSTRUCT A ONE STORY 323 SQUARE FOOT REAR ADDITION. FIVE, INSTALL A REAR COVERED PATIO. SIX, REMOVE AND ENCLOS FOUR EXISTING WINDOWS SEVEN. REPLACE 22 EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS WITH NEW ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD WINDOWS EIGHT, REPLACE THE EXISTING METAL ROOF WITH A COMPOSITION SHINGLE ROOF, AND NINE, MODIFY THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT OF THE DRIVEWAY AND RETAINING WALL. ALL ITEM ONE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING REAR ACCESSORY [04:05:01] STRUCTURE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH F WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE MATERIALS FROM THE HISTORIC ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, INCLUDING SALVAGEABLE WOOD SIDING, AND WOOD DOORS BE SALVAGED AND STORED ON SITE FOR USE IN FUTURE CONSTRUCTION. ITEM TWO, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BASED ON FINDINGS G THROUGH M WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FINAL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR FULLY WOOD GARAGE FOR A FULLY WOOD GARAGE DOOR TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. RACHEL. AND YES, UM, COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS A RETURNING CASE. DO YOU NEED STAFF TO READ, TO READ ALL THE ITEMS INTO THE RECORD? IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE REQUEST AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, THEN WE CAN FAST FORWARD A DISCUSSION OR WE CAN READ THE STIPULATIONS. YES, THANK YOU. YES. UM, I'M FINE WITH PROCEEDING WITH, UH, DISCUSSION. UM, WE DID HAVE A D R C AND, UH, WE LOOKED AT TWO THINGS MAINLY. ONE WAS THE, UH, DRIVEWAY ENTRANCE THAT ACTUALLY, UH, ENCROACHES ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY AND, UH, DISCUSSED REALIGNING THAT DRIVEWAY AND, UH, SUBSEQUENT RETAINING WALLS TO, UH, FALL ONTO THIS WITHIN THESE PROPERTY LINES. AND THAT WOULD BASICALLY DICTATE HOW MUCH OF THAT, UH, SIDE PORCH WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED TO ALLOW FOR A, UH, THE PROPOSED 10 FOOT RIBBON DRIVE. UM, AND I BELIEVE MR. KYLE DERONE, YOU WERE IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT. I THINK YOU, UH, SUBMITTED DRAWINGS FOR THAT. UM, THE OTHER THING WE LOOKED AT WERE THE WINDOWS. UH, WE DID AN, UH, EXTERIOR OR MAINLY AN INTERIOR INSPECTION OF THE WINDOWS. AND, UM, THE SASH ON THE WINDOWS ARE IN SURPRISINGLY GOOD SHAPE. UH, IN FACT, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY MAY HAVE HAD THE ORIGINAL PAINT ON THEM. THEY'RE NOT ALL COVERED UP WITH, UH, GENERATIONS OF PAINT LAYERS. UM, AND SO WE DISCUSSED WITH MR. CALDERONE IF IT WAS A, UH, FINANCIAL, UH, IMPEDIMENT TO, UM, RESTORING THEM ALL AT ONCE, THAT ONE SUGGESTION WOULD BE IS AS HE'S ALL, UH, ABLE TO RESTORE THEM, UH, OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. UH, AND THAT WAY HE WOULD NOT HAVE TO, UH, REPLACE THEM ALL AS BEING PROPOSED. THERE, UH, IS SOME WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON SOME OF THE FRAMES AND SOME OF THE, UH, FRAME SEAL. BUT, UH, AGAIN, THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THE, UM, THE WINDOWS AS THEY, UM, ARE RESTORED. ONE THING THAT WE DID NOT DISCUSS AT THE LAST H D R C OR ONSITE WAS THE REQUEST TO REMOVE SOME WINDOWS ON THE, I BELIEVE IT'S THE EAST FACADE, IS THAT CORRECT, MR. CALON? YEAH, THE WINDOW SCHEDULE IF YOU WANNA GO TO IT IS ON PAGE OR WHERE DID IT GO? PAGE 50, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN MAKE THAT A LITTLE BIGGER. . OKAY. 50 MM-HMM. . SO THERE'S A SERIES OF THREE WINDOWS, EXISTING WINDOWS ON THE EAST FACADE THAT, UM, THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSING TO REMOVE. UM, WE, TO BE HONEST, I I DID NOT LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING BACK THERE. UM, BUT IN MANY CASES, MR. CALDERONE, WHERE THERE ARE EXISTING HISTORIC WINDOWS AND THE FUNCTION ON THE INSIDE OF THE STRUCTURE, UH, DOESN'T WARRANT, UH, HAVING A WINDOW, THEN UM, THERE'S RESTORING THE WINDOW ON THE OUTSIDE AND BUILDING A, UH, WALL ON THE INSIDE TO, TO CLOSE THEM UP. BUT ON THE EXTERIOR, THE WINDOWS REMAIN. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU WOULD CONSIDER. UH, IT IS ON THAT EAST SIDE. UM, I THINK ONE THING TO NOTE IS WE ARE REMOVING THOSE THREE WINDOWS, BUT WE ARE ADDING TWO WINDOWS TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY ON THAT SAME SIZE. YOU'RE LOSING THREE, ADDING TWO. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND YOU'RE TAKING THREE FROM THE HISTORIC SIDE OF THE HOUSE. MM-HMM. . UM, SO THAT IS FINE AS [04:10:01] LONG AS I CAN COVER IT FROM THE INSIDE. 'CAUSE THAT IS A CLOSET. UM, SO WAIT, YOU'RE ADDING NINE, 10 OR 11 AND 12. NINE AND 10. NINE AND 10 ON THAT SAME SIDE. AND 11 AND 12, YOU'RE ADDING TWO, RIGHT? YES, BUT THAT'S ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, SO THEY COULD BE POTENTIALLY RELOCATED. WELL, IF WE WANTED TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY OF THE ORIGINAL EXTERIOR, EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE CLOSET SPACES, THE WINDOWS STAY, THE EXTERIOR TRIM STAYS, IT'S THE INTERIOR FINISH THAT ALLOWS THOSE CLOSETS TO BE BUILT SHEET ROCK OVER A LITTLE BIT OF FRAMING. YES. AND THEY CAN BE REVERTED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL AT A DIFFERENT TIME. YEAH, I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT DOESN'T AFFECT ME. THERE'S A LOT OF, UM, ITEMS AND STIPULATIONS. SO DO WE CAN GO THROUGH THEM ONE BY ONE OR DO WE ALREADY KNOW WHICH ONES THE APPLICANT ARE IS COMPLYING WITH RACHEL? SO THE APPLICANT IS MAINLY CONTESTING THE, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT FOR THE FENESTRATION MODIFICATION. SO ITEM SIX AND SEVEN FOR ITEM EIGHT, WHICH IS REPLACING THE EXISTING METAL ROOF WITH A SHINGLE ROOF. AND THEN ITEM NINE, UM, TO MODIFY THE FOOTPRINT OF THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY AND RETAINING WALL. UM, ALSO ITEM THREE, THE FRONT PORCH MODIFICATION. SO THAT IS, UH, IN, IN SUMMARY, 3, 6, 7, 8, AND NINE. AND ITEM THREE, MR. CHAIR, THAT'S REALLY ALSO JUST, IT'S, THAT'S WHY WE DO CASE BY CASE, RIGHT? IT HAS TO BE MODIFIED TO ME TO EVEN BE ABLE TO GET THE DRIVEWAY. THAT'S CORRECT. UM, IN ORDER TO GET THE DRIVEWAY AND APPROACHED COMPLETELY ON HIS PROPERTY, UH, THE, THE PORCH NEEDS TO BE CUT BACK. WE ALSO DISCUSSED WHAT THE OVERHANG, HOW TO, UM, REIN, UM, REINSTATE THE OVERHANG ON THAT WEST SIDE SO THAT IT WOULD LOOK ORIGINAL AND HOW FAR THOSE COLUMNS WOULD NEED TO COME IN, UM, AND STILL ALLOW A VEHICLE FULL PASSAGE. OKAY. AND THEN, UM, I GUESS WE'RE ALL AGREEING ON ITEM NUMBER SIX TO RE RETAIN THE WINDOWS AND I GUESS THE APPLICANT IS OKAY TO TRY AND RESTORE ALL THE WINDOWS THAT ARE EXISTING MM-HMM. , IS THAT CORRECT? MR. CALDERONE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH, UH, RESTORING THE EXISTING WINDOWS? I AM NOT. YOU ARE NOT. OKAY. YOU, YOU'D STILL LIKE TO REPLACE THEM? I WOULD. OKAY. AND IF, IF YOU WANT REAL QUICK BEFORE WE GET TO THE WINDOWS, UM, UH, THE ROOF, I'VE ALREADY AGREED, UM, I'M TRYING TO KEEP THIS AS AS SIMPLE AS I CAN AND, AND STAY, UM, YOU KNOW, PRESERVING THE HISTORIC CULTURE AND SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PROPERTY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. SO KEEPING THE ROOF METAL I'M IN FULL AGREEMENT WITH, SO WE CAN STRIKE THAT ONE OFF, BUT I DO NEED TO CHANGE IT. THE, THE 10 THAT IS USED IS IN HORRIBLE CONDITION, HAS, UM, OH, PLASTIC CEMENT AND ROOFING TAR ALL OVER IT. SO I, I DO NEED TO REPLACE IT WITH THE NEW METAL ROOF. OKAY. THAT WOULD BE, UM, SOMETHING I BELIEVE STAFF COULD DO ADMINISTRATIVELY. OKAY. UH, AND THEY HAVE THEIR STANDARD GUIDELINES FOR, UH, STANDING SCENE METAL ROOFS. OKAY. UM, AND REAL QUICK ON THE PORCH, I BELIEVE WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT. UM, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF TWO ISSUES. ONE, BEING ABLE TO GET A CAR BACK THERE. TWO IS HALF OF THE DRIVEWAY IS ON MY NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY, UM, WHERE THE DRIVEWAY MEETS THE STREET. SO ANYWAY, I MEAN THAT THE PORCH NEEDS TO COME IN AND THE DRIVEWAY AND RETAINING WALL NEED TO BE RELOCATED AND MOVED OVER. AND IF YOU LOOK HERE, THAT'S A PERFECT PICTURE. EVERYTHING IS GONNA BE STRAIGHT 10 FOOT DRIVE JUST LIKE IT IS NOW. AND THEN ONCE WE GET TO THE PORCH, IT'LL BECOME A RIBBON DRIVE THAT WILL ONLY BE NINE FOOT WIDE. SO IT'LL, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY JUST SCOOT IN THREE INCHES ON EACH SIDE, AND THEN YOU'LL HAVE THREE FEET OF RIBBON, THREE FEET OF GRASS, THREE FEET OF RIBBON. AND I THINK WE WERE IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT WHEN I MET WITH, I COULD SUPPORT THAT STAFF PROPERTY. YES, I'D AGREE WITH THAT. YOU WANT ME TO TRY AND RACHEL, WHY DON'T YOU PUT THE STIPULATIONS UP ON THE SCREEN? [04:15:02] WELL JUST, UH, MR. CALDRON, I THINK THE ONLY ONE THAT I'M PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CHANGE, UM, I MEAN NOT DISAGREE WITH STAFF, IT'S ON THE WINDOWS. I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD TRY TO DO A, A REPAIR. UM, IF YOU GET DEEPER INTO THE PROJECT AND YOU REALLY DO NOT FIND THAT THEY ARE, THAT THEY ARE BEYOND REPAIR, THEN YOU CAN COME BACK. BUT I, I WILL NOT, UH, SUPPORT A FULL REPLACEMENT OF ALL THE WINDOWS. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I KNOW YOU GUYS HAD A LONG DAY, BUT I HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED DISCUSSING THE WINDOWS. I WANTED TO GET TO THE OTHER ISSUES FIRST. PLEASE GO AHEAD IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE WINDOWS. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. SO IF YOU START WITH PAGE 53 AND GO THROUGH PAGE 67, THIS IS THE INTERIOR CONDITION OF THE WINDOWS. YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE, THE INTERIOR CONDITION OF THE HOUSE. UM, AS A COMMITTEE MEMBER NOTED, IT PROBABLY IS THE ORIGINAL PAINT ON THESE WINDOWS BECAUSE NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO THIS HOUSE SINCE IT WAS CONSTRUCTED. UM, THE MAINTENANCE ON THIS HOUSE IS NON-EXISTENT AND IT'S IN HORRIBLE CONDITION, SO THERE WAS SEVERE DAMAGE. UM, IF YOU CAN PLEASE SHOW THE INTERIOR PICTURES OF THE WINDOWS. PAGE 53. OUR APOLOGIES, I HAVE THE WRONG DOCUMENT UP AT THE MOMENT. UM, BUT JUST GO AHEAD AND I'LL GET THAT DOCUMENT UP SHORTLY FOR YOU. THANK YOU. SO I'LL, I'LL GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE. I KNOW YOU GUYS HAD A LONG DAY AND I APPRECIATE IT. UM, SO THERE IS, I I I'M NOT TRYING TO MAINTAIN THAT THE WINDOWS CANNOT BE REPAIRED. UM, I UNDERSTAND THE STIPULATIONS OF 50%, UH, DAMAGED OR WORSE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE HERE, BUT WITH THESE WINDOWS, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM DOES NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. UM, I DID HAVE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE COME OUT AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE WINDOWS, AND BOTH OF THE REPAIR COMPANIES TOLD ME THAT ALL THE WINDOWS WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED. UM, ALL ROPES AND WEIGHTS HAVE TO BE REPAIRED BECAUSE ALL THE ROPES HAVE BROKEN FROM TIME AND WEIGHT. NOT ALL, SORRY, MOST HAVE BROKEN. THE ONES THAT HAVEN'T BROKEN WILL BREAK. SO ALL THE ROPES AND WEIGHTS NEED TO BE REPLACED. ALL HARDWARE NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. UM, MANY OF THE WINDOWS HAVE RAILS SEPARATING FROM THE SASHES. UM, THE BOTTOM SASHES HAVE WOOD, WOOD ROT IN SEVERAL PLACES. I AGREE THAT THE TOP SASHES ARE IN GOOD CONDITION, BUT THERE ARE BOTTOM SASHES THAT WILL NEED TO BE REBUILT. UM, THERE'S ALSO WOOD ROT WHERE THE TOP AND BOTTOM WINDOW, UH, PIECES MEET. I GUESS THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF MOISTURE THAT SAT THERE OVER TIME. UM, ALL THE WINDOWS. DID YOU SEND PICTURES OF THE INSIDE? BECAUSE I, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE PICTURES OF THE INSIDE. I'M PULLING THOSE UP RIGHT NOW. NOW, SORRY FOR THE DELAY. SO THEY WERE NOT IN OUR PACKAGE, RIGHT? UH, THEY WERE SUBMITTED AT THE PREVIOUS H D R C HEARING AND THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THIS DOCUMENT. SO I'M PULLING UP THE CORRECT ONE. SO ALL THE WINDOWS SILLS ARE BROKEN. UM, THEY WERE ROTTED OR UNFORTUNATELY WHEN THE TRIM WAS REMOVED DURING THE INTERIOR DEMOLITION, THEY WERE BROKEN. UM, AS I SAID, ALL HAVE MISSING ARE CUT ROPES. THERE WERE MULTIPLE WINDOWS WITH BROKEN GLASS. UM, AND AS I SAID, THEY ALL NEED TO BE RE REMOVED AND REPAIRED. UM, IN ADDITION, UH, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY OF THE HOUSE MUST BE IMPROVED. SO THIS HOUSE, I'M DOING AN ENTIRE 100% COMPLETE REMODEL. IT'S BASICALLY CONSTRUCTING A NEW HOUSE AND LEAVING THE EXTERIOR FACADE. UM, WHICH I KNOW WE ALL APPRECIATE FOR THE HISTORIC FEATURES. SO ALL PLUMBING IS GONNA BE BRAND NEW, ALL ELECTRIC, BRAND NEW, UM, ALL MECHANICAL, BRAND NEW. EVERYTHING IN THE HOUSE IS GONNA BE UPDATED AND NEW. UM, AND ON TOP OF THAT, WE NEED TO IMPROVE THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY. SO I STATED IN THE H D R C GUIDELINES, I'VE INSPECTED ALL AG SPACES AND WALL CAVITIES FOR WAYS TO INCREASE THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY. THESE AREAS WILL BE PROPERLY, UH, INSULATED UP TO AND BEYOND TODAY'S STANDARDS. AND ALL AIR PENETRATIONS WILL BE SEALED WITH A SPECIAL INSULATING FOAM. AS NOTED IN THE H D R C GUIDELINES FOR WINDOWS, UH, THE WINDOWS ACCOUNT FOR 25% OF ENERGY LOSS, WHICH REALLY IS A LARGE NUMBER, IT'S A QUARTER. AND ONCE YOU ADD THE PROPER INSULATION IN THE ATTICS AND THE ROOF AND THE WALLS, THOSE WINDOWS ACTUALLY BECOME A BIGGER PROBLEM. SO I MUST IMPROVE THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY, EFFICIENCY OF THE WINDOWS BY EITHER INSTALLING NEW DOUBLE PANE WINDOWS OR REPAIRING THE EXISTING WINDOWS AND ADDING [04:20:01] AN ADDITIONAL INSERT TO THE INSIDE OF THE WINDOW, WHICH I KNOW CAN BE DONE. SO AS YOU SEE, THE WINDOWS ARE IN POOR CONDITION. UM, I KNOW THEY COULD PRO, I KNOW THEY CAN BE REBUILT. THE PROBLEM WITH REBUILDING IS THE COST TO DO SO. UM, REAL QUICK, SO I KNOW IN THE H D R C GUIDELINES, IT DISCUSSES EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH WILL BE CONSIDERED BY THE BOARD WHEN CONSIDERING REPLACEMENT AS OPPOSED TO REPAIR. UM, I DO WANT IT TO BE KNOWN. IT IS MY PREFERENCE TO REPAIR THE EXISTING WINDOWS. UM, I WANNA REPEAT THAT. I PREFER TO REPAIR. THE PROBLEM IS THE COST OF DOING SO IS GINORMOUS. UM, REAL QUICK, I'VE DONE PREVIOUS WORK IN ALMOST PARK TERRACE HISTORIC DISTRICT ON THAT PROPERTY. I WAS ABLE TO REPAIR WINDOWS. UH, I WAS ABLE TO MAKE EVERYTHING WHERE THEY OPEN AND CLOSED WITH NO PROBLEM. UH, MAINTENANCE ON THE PROPERTY WAS IN MUCH BETTER CONDITION AND I DIDN'T TRY TO REPLACE ANY WINDOWS. THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT AND UNFORTUNATELY YOU CAN SEE THESE WINDOWS NEED A LOT OF WORK. UM, THE MAIN EXTENUATING FEATURE, UH, THE FIRST ONE IS THERE IS LEAD PAINT ON ALL OF THE WINDOWS. UM, IF YOU GO TO PAGE 68, YOU WILL SEE A LEAD-BASED PAINT REPORT. SO I HAD THE HOUSE INSPECTED FOR LEAD PAINT AND IT CAME BACK POSITIVE ON ALL THE WINDOWS. THE ISSUE WITH THIS NOW IS I HAVE TO MITIGATE THIS. SO MY, MY CHOICES HERE ARE REMOVE THE WINDOWS, REPLACE WITH NEW, OR REMOVE THE WINDOWS REPAIR AND COMPLETELY STRIP 'EM WHERE THERE'S NO LEAD-BASED PAINT. BECAUSE I'M NOW REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW TO GIVE THIS REPORT TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO WORKS ON THE HOUSE AND ALSO EVERY SINGLE PERSON THAT I PLAN TO SELL IT TO IN THE FUTURE, OR LEASE TWO LEASE. SO IN ORDER TO ALLEVIATE AND MITIGATE THIS LEAD CONTAMINATION, I HAVE TO HAVE THIS LEAD REMOVED. UM, SORRY. MR. CAL, MAY I ASK SOMETHING? UM, I THINK, AND I DO REMEMBER WE HAD THIS WINDOW, CONSTRUCTION WINDOW PICTURES. NOW I REMEMBER. AND SO WE WERE ABLE TO SEE THEM FROM THE INSIDE AT THE D R C VISIT, BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE WANTED TO SEE WAS THAT IF ALL OF THEM WERE TO BE REPLACED, I CAN SEE SOME OF THEM COULD QUALIFY FOR REPLACEMENT. UM, UM, WE, UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM, THE CHAIR AND I, UH, WENT OVER FOR THE D R C AND I WAS EXPECTING TO SEE HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE WINDOWS BECAUSE I'D SEEN SOME OF THESE PHOTOS. I, MR. CALDERONE, UM, I TOLD YOU HOW SURPRISED I WAS AT HOW AND WHAT GOOD SHAPE THEY WERE FOR THE MOST PART, EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE. WE'RE LOOKING HERE WHERE THE DOG CHEWED ON IT. THE PREVIOUS OWNER'S DOG GOT TO IT. THERE ARE A COUPLE THAT MAY NEED TO BE REPLACED JUST OUT OF EFFICIENCY. UM, BUT THE BULK OF 'EM, THE SASHES ARE IN REMARKABLY GOOD SHAPE AND CONDITION. UM, TRUE, THE SILLS ARE BROKE. UM, AND AGAIN, THAT'S THE KIND OF FINISH WORK THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU'RE PUTTING THE TRIM BACK TOGETHER. I MEAN, EVEN IF YOU PUT NEW BI NEW WINDOWS IN, YOU'VE GOT TRIMMED TO CONSIDER. YOU HAVE SASHES, YOU HAVE, UM, SILLS AND, AND I'M NOT SASH. IT'S SILLS. YOU HAVE SILLS AND, AND BLOCKING AND YOU STILL HAVE TO DO THAT WORK. UM, AND MR. CALDERON, WHEN WE WERE VISITING, UM, YOU HAD SHOWN US A COUPLE OF ESTIMATES THAT YOU HAD RECEIVED. UM, DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO PURSUE A COUPLE OF OTHERS AS WE TALKED ABOUT? I HAVE. AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST PROBLEM. IF I COULD GO THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK, I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE HAD A LONG DAY. THERE'S THREE EXTENUATING FACTORS. ONE IS THE LEAD PAINT, TWO IS THE EXTERIOR WINDOW. FEATURES ARE NOT VISIBLE FROM THE, FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY DUE TO THE EXISTING WOOD SCREENS. SO ALL SCREENS ARE GONNA BE REBUILT OR REFURBISHED SO THAT THEY WILL STAY IN PLACE, WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE NOT ONLY THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE WILL HAVE THE SCREENS. SO WILL THE SIDE WINDOWS OF THE HOUSE HAVE THESE SCREENS? SO THERE'S NOT A HOUSE ON THIS STREET ON THE ENTIRE BLOCK THAT HAS ALL THE, THE ORIGINAL WOOD SCREENS, WHICH THIS HOUSE, THEY'RE NOT ALL ORIGINAL, BUT THEY'LL BE REBUILT TO LOOK LIKE IT. UH, IN THE H D R C GUIDELINES FOR EXTERIOR MAINTENANCE AND ALTERATIONS, THERE WERE THREE PRINCIPLES. PRINCIPLE NUMBER THREE, STATES QUOTE, MORE FLEXIBILITY IN TREATMENT AND OR REPLACEMENT MAY BE CONSIDERED IN LOCATIONS NOT VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. IT GOES ON TO STATE BUILDING. FEATURES NOT VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY ARE LESS LIKELY TO DETRACT FROM THE CHARACTER OR THE STRUCTURE OF THE DISTRICT. UH, AT THE LAST HEARING, NOT A SINGLE MEMBER [04:25:01] CONSIDERED THIS PRINCIPLE. NUMBER THREE, UM, THAT IS STATED HERE IN THE H H G R C GUIDELINES. I'M REQUESTING THAT THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS DISCUSS THIS PRINCIPLE AND HOW IT AFFECTS THE REPLACEMENT OF THE WINDOWS DUE TO THE FACT THAT A PERSON PASSING BY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TELL IF THE WINDOWS OR THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS OR NOT, BECAUSE OF THE WOOD SCREENS THAT WILL BE IN PLACE. HAVING SAID THAT, THE WINDOW THAT I PLAN ON USING FOR REPLACEMENT, THE JELLED WIND W 2,500 ALL WOOD TRADITIONAL WINDOW, IT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY APPROVED AS A REPLACEMENT WINDOW BY TOBIN HILLS HISTORIC DISTRICT, OR THEY'VE BEEN USING THE TOBIN HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND YOU CANNOT REALLY TELL UNLESS YOU GO RIGHT UP TO THE WINDOW THAT THIS IS A NEW WINDOW. UM, NOW IN ACCORDANCE WITH H T R C GUIDELINES, EVERY EFFORT HAS BEEN MADE BY ME TO REPAIR THE WINDOWS. I'VE CONTACTED 12, 12 DIFFERENT WINDOW REPAIR COMPANIES. MOST OF THEM DID NOT EVEN BOTHER RESPONDING TO ME. I CALLED, I TEXTED AND I EMAILED, AND A LOT OF 'EM DIDN'T EVEN RESPOND, BUT THE ONES THAT DID THE MAJORITY SAID THEY WERE TOO BUSY TO TAKE ON NEW PROJECTS. SO I'VE COME UP WITH THREE BIDS. ONE IS NOT COMPLETE BECAUSE IT WAS BEFORE I REALIZED THERE WAS LEAD PAINT. AND I'VE ASKED HIM TO GIMME AN UPDATED BID THAT ALL THE WINDOWS NEED TO BE STRIPPED. AND HE TOLD ME HE'S TOO BUSY AND HE CAN'T WORK ON MY PROJECT. SO THIS HAS PROVIDED ME WITH THE THIRD EXTENUATING FACTOR, WHICH IS THE UNREASONABLE AND ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. SO MAY, MAY I JUMP IN BECAUSE I, I WANNA ADDRESS THE LEAD CONCERN THAT YES, UM, IF YOU'RE GOING TO REPAINT THESE SASHES AND REPAINT THE TRIMS, I BELIEVE YOU CAN ENCAPSULATE THAT LEAD WITH PAINT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO STRIP IT DOWN TO THE WOOD AND GO THAT FULL, THAT FULL ROUTE. YOU CAN MERELY, UM, DO REPAIRS AND PAINT. AND AS WELL AS I NOTICED ON THOSE, I NOTICED ON THOSE EXISTING SASHES, UM, YOU DON'T HAVE A PAINT BUILDUP. SO IT'S NOT AS IF YOU'RE TAKING A, A SASHES THAT HAVE BEEN PAINTED, YOU KNOW, 40 TIMES IN A HUNDRED YEARS. NO, THEY LOOK LIKE THEY'VE BEEN PAINTED MAYBE TWICE. SO, UM, ANOTHER COAT OF PAINT WOULD, WOULD PROBABLY BE FINE AND IT WOULD ENCAPSULATE, AND IT WOULD ALLEVIATE AND WAIVE ANY, UH, OF THE LEAD, LEAD CONCERNS. UM, AND I THINK THE GUIDELINE, I BELIEVE THE GUIDELINE STIPULATION IS FOR CASES WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A REAL DILEMMA ON WHETHER THESE WINDOWS NEED TO BE REPLACED OR NOT. IN MY EYES, WHAT I SAW, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THESE WINDOWS NEED TO BE REPLACED. THAT'S MY OPINION. UM, OTHER , I THINK WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. I'M READY TO DO THE MOTION. WELL BEAR WITH ME 'CAUSE I'M ALMOST FINISHED AND I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE HAD A LONG DAY AND I KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THE WINDOWS ARE TO THE COMMISSION, AND AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, I PREFER REPAIRING THESE OVER REPLACEMENT. SO HERE'S THE UNREASONABLE, WELL, REAL QUICK, TO YOUR POINT, UM, I APPRECIATE YOUR OPINION ON THE LEAD PAINT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT'S INCORRECT. I HAVE TO GET ANOTHER TEST, OTHERWISE, I'M GONNA HAVE TO SHOW TO EVERY HOMEOWNER WHO BUYS THIS HOUSE PROSPECTIVE PURCHASER. I HAVE TO SHOW THAT REPORT FOR THE REPORT TO COME BACK SAYING THERE'S NO MORE LEAD. THEY DO, THEY USE A SPECIAL RADAR DEVICE THAT GOES THROUGH THE PAINT NO MATTER HOW MANY COATS YOU PUT ON IT, AND IT'LL, IT CAN TELL IF THERE'S LEAD PAINT OR NOT. UM, AND AS YOU SAID, IT CAN BE PAINTED OVER AND AS LONG AS IT'S NOT DISTURBED, THEN THERE'S NO ISSUE. THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S MANY THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN A HOUSE THAT DISTURBS PAINT. YOU HAVE KIDS, YOU HAVE DOGS. AND THE HOUSE I LIVE IN RIGHT NOW IN MONTE VISTA, I HAD WATER THAT LEAKED FROM THE AC UNIT. IT WENT DOWN THE DOOR TRIM. AND IF YOU WANT, I CAN SHOW YOU, TURN ON MY VIDEO CAMERA AND SHOW YOU WHAT IT DID TO THE PAINT. IT IS CHIPPING AND FLAKING OFF, AND THIS HASN'T BEEN TESTED, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THE AGE OF THE HOME THAT IS PROBABLY LEAD BASED PAINT AND THERE'S CHIPS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND IT'S FLAKING, SO IT DOESN'T ABSOLVE THE PROBLEM TO PAINT OVER IT. AND IT DOESN'T ABSOLVE THE LEAD PAINT ISSUE. IT'S NOT ABATED BECAUSE THE DEVICE THEY USE WHEN THEY TEST WILL STILL SHOW LEAD PAINT. SO THEY DO HAVE TO BE STRICT. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS, I, I CAN'T NOT DO THAT. I, I, I CAN'T GET AWAY FROM DOING THAT. UM, REAL QUICK, I'M ALMOST FINISHED HERE. UM, SO AS I MENTIONED, I NEED TO ADDRESS THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY OF THE WINDOWS. I NEED TO INSTALL NEW DOUBLE PANE WINDOWS OR INTERIOR WINDOW INSERT. I RECEIVED A BID FOR FROM SLIM LINE INSULATING PAINTS FOR THE 19 WINDOWS OF $4,720. THAT'S JUST THE PAIN. NOW I GOT A BID FROM ARCHITECTURAL.COM TO REPAIR [04:30:01] ALL THE WINDOWS, UM, NEW ROPES, WEIGHTS, AND THEY WILL STRIP ALL THE PAINT. AND THAT BID CAME OUT TO $22,800. IF YOU SEE IT SAYS 24,000. THAT WAS FOR 20 WINDOWS. WE ACTUALLY ONLY HAVE TO DO 19. SO 19 WINDOWS COMES OUT TO 22,800. WHEN YOU ADD IN THE SLIP LINE INSULATING PAN, WE'RE NOW AT $27,520 FOR REPAIR. I RECEIVED ANOTHER BID FROM WHOLE MILLWORK OUT OF FORT WORTH. THEIR BID WAS 2000 A WINDOW. IT'S MORE IF WINDOWS HAVE TO BE REBUILT, WHICH A FEW OF THEM PROBABLY DO. BUT I WENT WITH THE MINIMUM HERE. THAT COMES OUT TO $38,000 FOR 19 WINDOWS. UM, WHEN YOU ADD IN THE SLIP LINE, PAYING TO ADD THE DOUBLE INSULATION, WE ARE NOW AT $42,720. IF YOU GO TO PAGE 92, YOU'LL SEE THAT I RECEIVED A BID TO RE REMOVE ALL THE WINDOWS AND ALSO REFRAME 'EM, REBLOCK 'EM, AND INSTALL NEW WINDOWS. PAGE 97 HAS THE PRICE OF THE NEW WINDOWS. THE COST THAT I GOT FROM HOME DEPOT, THE ENTIRE BID TO REPLACE ALL THE WINDOWS, INCLUDING ALL LABOR MATERIALS, REFRAME OPENINGS. INSTALLATION IS $9,373. SO I'D LIKE TO REPEAT MY CHOICES. 27,520 WITH ARCHITECTURAL TO REPAIR 42,720 WITH WHOLE MILLWORK TO REPAIR OR REPLACE WITH NEW $9,373. UM, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, I PREFER TO REPAIR THE EXISTING WINDOWS. THE PROBLEM IS THE COST TO DO SO IS EXCESSIVE AND CREATES A SEVERE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. UM, I SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD TO DO THIS REHAB AT THIS PRICE. IT, IT, IT DESTROYS THE BUDGET AND DESTROYS ANY CHOICE CHANCE OF MAKING A PROFIT IN THE FUTURE. UM, I DO WANNA SAY REAL QUICKLY WHEN MEETING WITH THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS, UM, IN THE, THE CONVERSATION I HAD, AS SHE MENTIONED, UM, THAT WINDOWS CAN BE REDONE MYSELF OVER TIME. THERE ARE FORCES THAT ARE PUT ON BY THE HT R C, WHICH I THINK IS GREAT, UM, WHERE THE CITY INSTRUCT HOMEOWNERS HOW TO PROPERLY REPAIR AND MAINTAIN EXISTING WINDOWS. UM, AND THIS WOULD SAVE ME THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND I TRULY APPRECIATE THIS ADVICE AND RECOMMENDATION. THE PROBLEM IS THAT, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, THIS HOUSE IS GONNA BE COMPLETELY REDONE INSIDE AND BRAND NEW. I'M NOT GONNA BE PUTTING CASING AROUND THESE WINDOWS OR WOOD TRIM. IT'S GONNA BE SHEET ROCK. SO YOU HAVE SHEET ROCK ON THE SIDES. YOU HAVE SHEET ROCK ON THE TOP AND ON THE BOTTOM YOU HAVE THE WINDOW STOOL AND THEN TRIM ON THE BOTTOM. SO FOR ME TO GO BACK AFTER SPENDING THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND MONEY THAT I'M GONNA SPEND TO REPAIR AND REFURBISH THIS HOUSE, I THEN ONE AT A TIME HAVE TO BUST OUT SHEET ROCK, TAKE OUT WINDOWS, REPAIR THEM MYSELF, THEN COME BACK, PUT THEM IN AND INDIVIDUALLY HIRE SHEET ROCK COMPANY AND PAINTER. 'CAUSE I DON'T DO THOSE TO COME BACK AND DO THIS WORK. UM, I APPRECIATE THE RECOMMENDATION MR. CALON. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND DO A MOTION. I LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH 26 WOOD WINDOWS AND I HAVE BEEN REPAIRING AND PAINTING THEM MYSELF WITH LEAD, WITH EVERYTHING. SO I REALLY, I I WOULD, I'M GONNA DO A MOTION AND, AND THERE ARE SOME WINDOWS THAT ARE BEING APPROVED TO BE REMOVED. UM, THE ONES FOR THE REINSTALLATION, YOU CAN REUSE THEM ON THE PROPERTY. I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AS A CASE BY CASE BUT CANNOT, UM, YOU STATED YOUR CASE VERY WELL. IT JUST, I'M FINISHED. IT'S NOT REASONS ENOUGH FOR, FOR US TO, I'M NOT FINISHED. I'M SORRY, I HAVEN'T GONNA DO A MOTION, MR. CHAIR. YES. UH, IF WE DON'T GET A MOTION HERE SOON, MR. CALDONE, WE'RE GONNA LOSE A QUORUM. WE'RE ABOUT TO LOSE ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS, SO WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION NOW. UH, IF YOU DON'T, UH, AGREE WITH OUR, UH, DECISION, YOU CAN ALWAYS APPEAL THIS TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, BUT I, I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. CALL FOR A MOTION NOW, PLEASE. OKAY, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM ONE WITH STIPULATION ITEM TWO WITH STIPULATIONS APPROVE ITEM THREE, AS THE APPLICANT HAS PRESENTED, APPROVE ITEM FOUR WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS APPROVE. ITEM FIVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS DENIAL OF ITEM [04:35:01] SIX AND SEVEN AND I GUESS ITEM EIGHT IS NOT AN ISSUE ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'LL BE, UM, AND RESTRAINED APPROVE AND APPROVE. ITEM NINE AS PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT. AND I SECOND THAT WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION FROM THE COMMISSION, UH, FOR CLARIFICATION WAS WHAT WAS THE, UH, MOTION ON ITEM THREE? WE'RE GONNA APPROVE ITEM THREE AS PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT, WHICH IS HE WILL MODIFY THE FRONT PORCH TO ACCOMMODATE FOR THE DRIVEWAY OF THE 10 FEET DRIVEWAY. WITH, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS UNDERSTOOD HOW TO MODIFY THE ROOF AND PORCH ELEMENTS OVERHANG, AS I UNDERSTOOD THAT WAS WELL, WELL UNDERSTOOD BY THE APPLICANT. YES. THANK YOU. UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SINA? AYE. NAN AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROB AYE BETS? AYE. UNE AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU MR. CALDERONE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I APPRECIATE IT. [21. Address/Description: 615 CEDAR ST HDRC Case No.: 2021423 Historic District Name: King William Applicant: Minerva Garcia Request: Roof replacement City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 21 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 4 23 6 15 CEDAR. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING METAL ROOF ON THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE WITH A COMPOSITION SHINGLE ROOF. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING METAL ROOF WITH A COMPOSITION SHINGLE ROOF BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH B IN KIND ROOF REPLACEMENT IS ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. AND THE APPLICANT, MINERVA GARCIA, IS WITH US VIRTUALLY. HELLO? UH, MY, MY NAME IS JESSE GARCIA. I'M OUR SON, UH, MINEVA GARCIA. THAT'S MY MOTHER. SHE'S, UM, 84 YEARS OLD. UH, SHE'S HARD OF HEARING AND, UH, LOSING HER EYESIGHT. UH, THANK YOU MR. GARCIA. GOOD. HEAR ME? WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE. UM, GO AHEAD AND PRESENT YOUR REQUEST. OKAY. UM, WELL, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING US AND ALSO A VERY LONG, LONG DAY. AND I AM GONNA KEEP IT REALLY, REALLY SHORT. UM, FIRST OF ALL, UH, WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE WHERE MY MOTHER, MY FATHER, THEY BOUGHT THE HOUSE IN 1979. UH, THEY, WE'VE BEEN IN THE KING WILLIAM AREA. WE WENT TO BONHAM ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, WENT TO TON MIDDLE SCHOOL, WENT TO, UH, WHEATLEY HIGH SCHOOL. NOW BRAD, UH, NEVERTHELESS, UH, THE HOUSE, MY FATHER DIED SOME TIME AGO, SOME, SOME YEARS AGO, AND MY MOM WAS LIVING THERE. UH, HER ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME RIGHT NOW IS HER SOCIAL SECURITY, THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW. AND IT WAS PRETTY MUCH ABANDONED FOR SOME TIME. AND BECAUSE OF EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, THAT AGAIN, NOW WITH THE, UH, WITH THE FREEZE THAT WE HAD A COUPLE OF, I I SAID FEBRUARY, THAT TREE YOU GUYS SEE IN THAT BACK AND THAT PICTURE THAT YOU SHOW, ONE OF THOSE TREE BRANCHES ACTUALLY FELL. THE DRY ACCIDENT, YOU DRIED OUT FOR THE FREEZE, IT FELL AND PROTRUDED THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE ROOF. THE ROOF HAS BEEN OLD. IF YOU SEE THAT PICTURE AS WELL. IT HAS BEEN RESURFACED, IT HAS BEEN REDONE. UH, IT HAS, UH, A ROOF CEMENT, PLASTIC CEMENT ALL OVER THE PLACE. THE, THE HOUSE CAN NO LONGER BE INSURED BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING CONDITION OF THE ROOF. AGAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS TOO THAT, THAT WE'RE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, THE ONLY INCOME THAT MY MOTHER HAS IS THE SOCIAL SECURITY. UH, MY SISTER AND I WERE, YOU KNOW, HELPING HER OUT. I ALSO WENT AHEAD AND GOT, UH, UH, ESTIMATES, PROPOSALS, YOU KNOW, FROM TWO DIFFERENT COMPANIES. SO WE HAD ACTUALLY CALLED THREE, TWO SHOWED UP. UM, WE'RE KEEPING THE SAME WINDOWS, WE'RE KEEPING THE SAME WINDOWS, WE'RE DOING THE, REDOING THE PLUMBING, REDOING THE ELECTRICAL. SO IT'S GONNA BE EXTENSIVE, UH, MONEY ALSO INVESTED INTO THE HOUSE. UH, WE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE. AGAIN, WE LIVE, THAT'S KIND OF LIKE ON THE TAIL END. IT'S LIKE FIVE, SIX HOUSES TO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE END OF KING WILLIAM. WE LIVE ON THE LAST STREET WHERE THE SIDEWALKS ARE BROKEN AND EVERYTHING ELSE. NEVERTHELESS, WE WISH THAT WE HAD THE MONEY THAT MY MOTHER HAD THE MONEY THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY HELP OUT, BUT I MEAN, RIGHT NOW REPAIRS OVER 40,000 BUCKS ON THE ROOF RIGHT NOW. UH, THE ESTIMATES THAT WE WENT AHEAD AND PICKED UP ONE OF THEM, IT, UH, IT, IT IS A PRICE DIFFERENTIAL FROM $23,000 WITH A METAL ROOF TO, UH, 8,600 FOR THE, THE ROOF SIGNAL. UH, AGAIN, WELL KEEPING IT SHORT THAT THE HOUSE, IT'S AN ISO RIGHT NOW. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE UPDATE IT. WE'RE, WE'RE KEEPING WITH THE KING WILLIAM COLORS, THE STRUCTURE, THE WINDOWS, EVERYTHING ELSE, THE COLUMNS. WE'RE NOT GONNA MOVE ANYTHING. WE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF IT. HOWEVER, IT, WE NEED THE ROOF DONE. THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S ACTUALLY A BRANCH IN THERE. WE WENT AHEAD AND REMOVED THE BRANCH. I DID IT MYSELF. RIGHT NOW, IT HAS A CARP ON THE BACK END AND IT NEEDS TO BE DONE ASAP. I'M ALSO GONNA HAVE TO DO THE CEILING REPAIRS INSIDE THE HOUSE BECAUSE IT'S LEAKING. IT'S, IT'S DAMAGING THE WOODEN FLOORS THAT WE REALLY, REALLY [04:40:01] LOVE. AND, AND, AND THEN AGAIN, THIS IS AN DIRE, DIRE NEED OF A REPLACEMENT. UH, IF, IF YOU LOOK AT MY BLOCK AS WELL, WE SAW THE LETTER WHERE THEY RECOMMENDED NOT TO, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT WE'D RATHER KEEP THE METAL ROOF IN THERE. IF TAKE A LOOK AT OUR BLOCK, IF YOU TAKE, TAKE, LOOK AT THE PICTURES AND, UH, I WANNA SAY THAT IT'S SIX AND SEVEN. THOSE OUT OF 18 HOUSES IN OUR BLOCK, 18 HOUSES, NINE OF 'EM STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE, NINE OF THEM HAVE ROOF SHINGLES, NOT METAL. AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN THERE 40 YEARS. THEY USED TO HAVE METAL, BUT EVERYTHING ACTUALLY HAS BEEN CHANGING TO SHINGLES. UH, THE THREE HOUSES DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF US HAVE SHINGLES, NOT METAL. THEY USED TO HAVE METAL, BUT NOW HAVE SHINGLES RIGHT NEXT TO US. IF YOU SEE THAT APARTMENT THAT THE ONE'S IN YELLOW RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOCK, THOSE ARE THOSE APARTMENTS THAT, THAT, THAT ROOF HAD JUST BEEN DONE. IT'S SHINGLES. IT'S SHINGLES. THE ONE IN THE CORNER WAS JUST DONE. IT SHINGLES IN THAT PICTURE THAT YOU'RE SEEING THE SECOND HOUSE TO THE EDGE TO THE LEFT, IT'S ACTUALLY BEING DONE IN THAT PICTURE. AND THEY WE'RE CHANGING FROM METAL THROUGH SHINGLES. AGAIN, WE SIT AT THE TAIL END OF KING WILLIAM 18 HOUSES ON THE BLOCK, NINE HOUSES HAVE SHINGLES. AND, AND WE BEG YOU THAT YOU DO ACCEPT AND APPROVE FOR THIS HOUSE TO BE ALSO DONE IN SHINGLES. AGAIN, IT'S MY MOTHER'S 84 YEARS OLD. IT'S OUR SOLE INCOME IS OUR SOCIAL SECURITY. AND BECAUSE OF THE DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WE DID, I MEAN THE OVERING CIRCUMSTANCES DID NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. I WAIT FOR YOUR RECOMMENDATION AND HOPEFULLY YOU APPROVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, DO WE HAVE CITIZEN COMMENTS? YOU HAVE A LETTER IN YOUR PACKETS, MR. CHAIR? YES, MA'AM. JUST TWO QUESTIONS. UM, THE HOUSE THAT'S BEING REDONE, I THINK WE SAW IT RIGHT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, I THINK THE ONE THAT HE'S MENTIONING. OKAY, WELL, I JUST LOOKED AT GOOGLE, UH, EARTH AND IT'S LIKE A YELLOW HOUSE. I THINK WE SAW IT A COUPLE WEEKS, MAYBE A MONTH AGO. AND WE DON'T THAT, THAT'S ACTUALLY THE ONE NEXT TO THE DOOR. THE THE YELLOW HOUSE, THAT'S THE ONE THAT WAS REDONE. THOSE ARE SOME APARTMENTS AND THEY WERE REDONE WITH A SHINGLE ROOF. THEY USED TO BE METAL AND THEY CHANGED IT TO SHINGLES. OKAY. IT'S GOT LIKE A PURPLE, MAYBE NOT YELLOW. IT GOT REPAINTED. BUT SIR, LEMME JUST FINISH. AND THEN THIS, THE HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET, SIX 18 SEATER IS COMPLETE THE SAME DESIGN, UH, AS THIS GEN, UH, MRS. GARCIA'S HOUSE. I, I MEAN THESE ARE CASE BY CASE. UH, THIS IS A DIFFICULT ONE, BUT I FEEL LIKE THE BLOCK IS TELLING US SOMETHING THAT COULD HELP US HELP THIS APPLICANT GET A, GET A ROOF. MR. CHAIR. YES, SIR. UM, I, I, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF, UM, YOU KNOW, FINANCIAL CIRCUMSTANCES. IF THIS IS SOMETHING, UM, THAT CAN HELP THE APPLICANT ESPECIALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, HIS MOTHER BEING ELDERLY. IS THERE, UM, WHAT'S IT CALLED, NOT NECESSARILY PROOF, BUT, UM, DOCUMENTATION OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES OR HOW, HOW IS THAT GENERALLY TAKEN CARE OF? I MEAN, THE ONLY REAL KIND OF DECISION GUIDING THING WE HAVE IS THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES. AND SO, UM, AS MUCH AS YOU'RE WILLING TO KIND OF HEAR THOSE, THOSE REQUESTS FROM APPLICANTS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, THERE'S NOT REALLY A THRESHOLD OR METRIC BY WHICH NO. IF YOU LOOK AT SIX 18, IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME. AND IT WAS ACTUALLY HARD FOR ME TO EVEN FIGURE OUT IF IT WAS A SHINGLE, IF IT WAS WOOD. YEAH. BECAUSE I MEAN, AND, AND, AND THIS IS GARCIA'S HOUSE, I MEAN, LOOKS VERY SIMILAR TO ME. BOTH OF THOSE ARE PUT DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. YOU'RE RIGHT MM-HMM. . YEAH. AND BOTH OF THEM ARE SHINGLES. YEAH. SO, AND THEY'RE SHINGLES AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF MM-HMM. HELPING A LITTLE BIT. MY MY, YES. MY HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE COULD HELP HERE. MRS. GARCIA, UM, HER HOUSE IS ALSO FAIRLY SET BACK, BUT THERE'S ALSO A COUPLE OF TREES. BUT THEN I LOOKED AT ONE PICTURE AND I THINK THE TREES WERE CUT NOW. YES, MA'AM. YEP. I'LL, I'LL AGREE WITH, UM, BOTH OF MY COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS ABOUT, UM, THE NECESSITY IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. AND, UM, SOMETIMES I LOOK AT IT IN A WAY THAT, OKAY, EVEN A GOOD 30 YEAR SHINGLE IN TEXAS IS ONLY GOING TO LAST 17 OR 21 YEARS. SO THERE'S THAT CHANCE FOR THE NEXT OWNER TO RECONSIDER AND REPLACE WITH A METAL ROOF. IF THAT'S THE CASE, I WOULD, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT IF THE COMMISSION DECIDES TO OR AGREES TO THE PROPOSAL THAT, UM, WE, UM, REQUEST A, I GUESS A MORE DIMENSIONAL SHINGLE LIKE AN ARCHITECTURAL QUALITY OR PROFILE, [04:45:01] I GUESS IN I MAY, THAT'S EXACTLY, THAT'S EXACTLY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE. I GOT, IS IT, I GOT THE PULL. YOU DON'T, IT'S DIMENSIONAL. TRY CRASHING EMOTION . WELL, LET, YES, I WELCOME TO THE COMMISSION . UH, LET ME PULL UP MY PAPERWORK SO THAT I CAN WORK OFF THE, UM, YEAH, I DO WANNA MAKE A MOTION THAT, UM, UH, LET'S SEE. SO, UM, MR. GARCIA, YOU DO HAVE, UM, PAPERWORK AND DOCUMENTATION OF THE REQUESTED SHINGLE TYPE IN YOUR PACKAGE? YES, MA'AM. YES MA'AM. I DO. AND I HAVE IT RIGHT IN MY HAND. OH. UM, AND, AND, AND IF YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, UH, WE WANT DIMENSIONAL OAKRIDGE, AND THIS IS GONNA BE THE 30 YEAR, SO THIS IS THE NICE THICK ONE. NICE THICK DIMENSIONAL SHINGLE DRIFT. WOULDN'T COLOR OWEN'S CORNING WITH, UH, WITH THE, THIS IS, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT. WE DON'T WANT THE CHEAP ONE. YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT THE, NOT, WE CAN DO THE STIPULATION OF, YOU KNOW, NOT LIKE THAT. WE WANT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE REALLY, REALLY NICE. OKAY. AGAIN, LET'S GO WITHIN A CERTAIN BUDGET THAT, THAT, THAT WE CAN GO AND HELP MY MOTHER HERE. OKAY. IF YOU STIPULATE AN ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLE, WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET THE SAMPLE. AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE, THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT A, UM, ARCHITECTURAL PROFILE SHINGLE TO BE USED. AND SECOND, I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND ANY DISCUSSION, JUST A, A BRIEF DISCUSSION. I THINK, YOU KNOW, CLEARLY THE GUIDELINES SAY, YOU KNOW, REPLACING KIND, UM, AND GENERALLY WE'RE SEEING CASES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE SHINGLE ROOFS AND THEY'RE WANTING TO UPGRADE A METAL ROOF. SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT SITUATION. BUT I CONCUR WITH MY, UH, MOER, UH, HERE, UH, WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE REVISITED IF WITH A FUTURE OWNER THAT THIS IS, IS A REVERSIBLE MOVE. AND I THINK I WOULD RATHER HAVE A, A GOOD SOUND DIMENSIONAL SHINGLE ROOF ON THIS HOUSE TO SET IT UP FOR FUTURE REHABILITATION RATHER THAN HAVE IT CONTINUE TO DETERIORATE. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. SAVINA. AYE. SUAN? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRO AYE. BETS? AYE. UNE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU GUYS VERY MUCH. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. THANK [Approval of Minutes] YOU. UH, WE HAVE APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 1ST, 2021. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF MEDIA MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 1ST, 21 AS SUBMITTED. SECOND. MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AYE. MOTION TO ADJOURN. ABSTAIN. OH ONE ABSTENTION. MOTION PASSES. UH, MOTION TO ADJOURN. MOVE TO ADJOURN. SECOND. SECOND. DOES IT REALLY PASS? 'CAUSE WE'RE ONLY FIVE? YES. OKAY. MUST MAKE ALL IN FAVOR OF AJOUR. AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. BYE BYE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.