* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:58] CAN I GET A SIGNAL FROM THE CONTROL BOOTH ON WHETHER WE'RE LIVE? OKAY, JEFF, WE ARE LIVE. [3:00 P.M. – Call to Order] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 15TH, 2021. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? SS IS ABSENT FISH HERE. SAVINO? HERE. VELAZQUEZ. HERE. OLA IS ABSENT. MASUKA CARPENTER. HERE. GRO HERE. CERVANTES THAT SIR. HERE. LA FIRM. HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM. UM, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE DO HAVE A BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING INTERPRETIVE SERVICES FOR THE MEETING. HELLO. GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS ANNOUNCEMENT IS TO INFORM YOU THAT WE DO HAVE SPANISH INTERPRETATION SERVICES FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE NEEDING SPANISH INTERPRETATION SERVICES. THE INTERPRETERS ARE AVAILABLE AT THE INTERPRETER CABIN LOCATED BEHIND THE RED CURTAIN, RIGHT NEXT TO THE THE ENTRANCE. WE WANNA, YES. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN, AND THE VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY AND THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OF OVERLAY AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL, SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH THIS MEETING THROUGH LIVESTREAM VIA THE CITY'S WEBSITE. FOLLOWING THE MEETING, A RECORDING WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE. THE MEETING IS ALSO BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH AND ENGLISH. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT REQUIRE INTERPRETIVE SERVICES, THE INTERPRETER WILL PROVIDE SERVICES AS NECESSARY. APPLICANTS ARE ASKED TO KEEP PRESENTATIONS AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE TO ALLOW TIME FOR DISCUSSION. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT ARE PROVIDING COMMENTS IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION HAVE A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES FOR ALL THEIR COMMENTS. COMMISSIONERS ARE ASKED TO LIMIT THEIR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS TO FIVE MINUTES IN ORDER TO PROTECT PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY. MASKS ARE STRONGLY ENCOURAGED FOR ANYONE ATTENDING THIS MEETING IN PERSON, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, AS WELL AS MANY PARTICIPANTS ARE PARTICIPATING VIRTUALLY TODAY. WE ASK THAT THOSE THAT ARE PRESENT SPEAK CLEARLY INTO A MICROPHONE SO EVERYONE CAN HEAR ALL COMMENTS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. BEFORE WE GET INTO THE AGENDA TODAY, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK SHANNON MILLER AND ALL OF THE O H P STAFF FOR THE U D C UPDATES AND TRAINING SESSION. THAT WAS LAST WEEK. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THESE UPDATES HOPEFULLY INCORPORATED INTO THE U D C THIS YEAR. ONE ITEM THAT IS OF PARTICULAR NOTE IS THE NUMBER OF APPLICATIONS THAT O H P RECEIVED THIS YEAR. THERE WERE OVER 3,200 APPLICATIONS WITH O H P ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVING OVER 1900. [00:05:01] THEY ALSO REVIEWED AND PREPARED MORE THAN 700 CASES THAT WERE HEARD BY THE H D R C AS CHAIRMAN OF H D R C AND A PRIVATE CITIZEN. I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS HERCULEAN EFFORT AND APPLAUD THEM FOR THEIR DEDICATION AND SERVICE. WELL, AT THIS TIME I'LL ASK O H P STAFF TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR TODAY'S MEETING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THOSE WORDS. AND I WAS ACTUALLY GONNA SAY SOMETHING SIMILAR BECAUSE THIS IS OUR LAST HEARING OF THE YEAR, AND SO WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE ALL OF THE HARD WORK THAT YOU AS COMMISSIONERS VOLUNTEER, I SHOULD MENTION, UNPAID, HAVE PUT INTO ALL OF THE MEETINGS, NOT JUST AT H C C, BUT OUR SUBCOMMITTEES AS WELL. IT'S A, IT'S A HUGE TIME COMMITMENT, UM, AND WE CERTAINLY WANT ACKNOWLEDGE, UM, ALL THE EFFORTS THAT YOU ALL CONTRIBUTE AS WELL. UM, A FEW ANNOUNCEMENTS, UM, IN LINE WITH THE CITY'S HOLIDAY SCHEDULE. UH, O H P OFFICES WILL BE CLOSED DECEMBER 24TH THROUGH JANUARY 1ST FOR THE WINTER HOLIDAY BREAK. UM, THERE WILL BE LIMITED CITY SERVICES DURING THAT TIME. UM, YOU CAN REPORT VIOLATIONS OR OTHER CODE ENFORCEMENT CONCERNS BY DIALING 3 1 1 OR USING THE 3 1 1 MOBILE APP. UM, THE NEXT H C R C HEARING DATE AFTER TODAY WILL BE JANUARY 19TH, AND THE APPLICATION DEADLINE FOR THAT DATE IS JANUARY 3RD. UM, A QUICK REMINDER FOR YOU ALL THAT AS AT OUR FIRST HEARING OF THE, OF THE YEAR ON JANUARY 19TH. WE WILL, UM, UH, IT WILL BE TIME TO AGAIN ELECT OUR OFFICERS, SO CHAIR AND VICE-CHAIR. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE'RE APPROACHING THAT DATE. UM, ANOTHER ANNOUNCEMENT IS WE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED THE 13TH ANNUAL DATE AND LOCATION FOR OUR HISTORIC HOMEOWNER FAIR. UM, SO THAT EVENT WILL BE SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 19TH, UM, AT THE TRIPOINT EVENT CENTER, UM, AT 32 33 NORTH ST. MARY'S. UM, I THINK MOST OF YOU KNOW WHERE THAT IS. UM, IN THE MONTE VISTA AREA, UM, THE FAIR WILL BE 10 TO 3:00 PM IT IS IN PERSON THIS YEAR. SO WE'RE EXCITED TO BE, UH, RETURNING, UH, TO AN IN-PERSON EVENT THAT IS FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC WHERE, UM, UH, RESIDENTS AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND OWNERS OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES CAN, CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT CITY PROCESS AND, UH, MEET WITH EXPERIENCED CONTRACTORS AND PROFESSIONALS IN THE FIELD. SO AGAIN, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD FREE RESOURCE FOR ANYBODY WHO OWNS AN OLDER OR HISTORIC PROPERTY. UM, NOW WE CAN DRAW OUR ATTENTION TO THE CASE LIST FOR TODAY. UM, JUST A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT THAT ITEM 15 HAS BEEN POSTPONED BY THE APPLICANT. IT WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. UM, WE ACTUALLY, BEFORE I GET INTO CASES, LET'S GO AHEAD AND, UH, [Approval of Minutes] HAVE A MOTION FOR ADOPTION OF THE, OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM DECEMBER 1ST, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR THE ADOPTION OF THE MEETING MINUTES, UH, FOR DECEMBER. WHAT WAS THE DATE? FIRST FIRST, YES. AS SUBMITTED. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS, IT'S ASPEN FISH. AYE. SABINA AYE. VELAZQUEZ NAY. OLA IS ABSENT. MASUKA AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES. AYE. ZER AYE. AND LA AYE. MOTION PASSES. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND I APOLOGIZE FOR MISSING THAT AT FIRST. UM, SO WE DO HAVE, UH, A NUMBER OF ITEMS ON CONSENT AGENDA. THERE ARE 14, UM, COMMISSIONER LFO WHO'S JOINING US VIRTUALLY WILL BE RECUSING FROM AN ITEM. SO HE HAS DECIDED JUST TO RECUSE FROM THE, UM, FULL CONSENT AGENDA, UM, DISCUSSION AND VOTE. UM, WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF PUBLIC COMMENTS. WE HAVE ONE IN-PERSON SPEAKER THAT I'LL CALL FIRST THAT'LL BE FOLLOWED BY ALL THE VOICEMAILS RECEIVED FOR ITEMS ON CONSENT. SO FIRST LET'S HEAR FROM DEBORAH OMO. WALLE JARMIN. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. I'M DEBORAH OMA JARMIN. MY ADDRESS IS 6 7 4 3 CONGRESSIONAL BOULEVARD, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 4 4. AND I'M HERE TO THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR CONSIDERING THE REDESIGN OF THE SAN PEDRO CULTURE CREEK PARK. THE INCLUSION OF THE ST. JAMES CHURCH FOUNDATION. THE SOAP WORKS AND THE ICE HOUSE IS ALL INSTRUMENTAL TO SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORY. I AM SPECIFICALLY INTERESTED IN THE ST. JAMES FOUNDATION, THE SECOND OLDEST AFRICAN AMERICAN CHURCH HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. AND THERE WAS JUST SO MUCH RICH HISTORY AND THINGS THAT HAPPENED WITH THE CONGREGANTS OF THAT CHURCH TO MAKE SAN ANTONIO THE CITY THAT IT'S IN. SO THANK YOU FOR SAYING YES TO THE NEW DESIGN. MERRY CHRISTMAS. THANK YOU. OKAY. AND VOICEMAIL FOR ITEM TWO. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS KATHY VIC, 1 0 7 KING WILLIAMS STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 0 4. THIS IS IN REGARDS TO ITEM TWO H D R C, CASE [00:10:01] NUMBER 2 0 2 1 DASH 6 2 3. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONCURS WITH THE O H P STAFF FINDINGS THAT THE MURALS PLAN FOR 1 46 NAVARRO NEED TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF REVIEW WHEN THEIR DESIGN IS FINALIZED. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO WELCOMES AND SUPPORTS THE CREATION OF MURALS THAT CELEBRATE LOCAL HISTORY AND ART. WE FURTHER ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO DEVELOP AN OVERALL DOWNTOWN MURAL PLAN TO COORDINATE THE EFFORTS OF INDIVIDUAL BUILDING OWNERS AND CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS SO THAT VIBRANCY, NOT DESCEND INDIVIDUAL CLUTTER. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING THIS MATTER. FOR ITEM ITEM FOUR. MY NAME IS EVERETT L FLY. I'M A LICENSED LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND A LICENSED ARCHITECT. I SERVE AT THE 1 0 6 REVIEW. INTERESTED PARTY FOR THIS SITE. ARCHEOLOGICAL SITE FOUR ONE BX 2 3 5 9. MY ADDRESS IS 1 2 2 NORTHGATE DRIVE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 8 CITY COUNCIL DISTRICT NUMBER TWO. I'M CALLING REGARDING H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 1 DASH 6 3 0. PUBLIC PROPERTY SAN PEDRO CREEK, LOCATED ON THE EAST BANK OF SAN PEDRO CREEK BETWEEN WEST HOUSTON AND WEST COMMERCE. I'M CALLING IN SUPPORT OF THE AMENDMENTS TO THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DESIGN, INCLUDING SITE AND LANDSCAPING WORK. AS YOU ARE AWARE, THE SITE IS EXTENSIVELY LAYERED WITH EMBEDDED TRACES OF SEVERAL TIME PERIODS, USES AND CULTURAL GROUPS. THE INCORPORATION OF THE REMAINS OF THE ST. JAMES A M E CHURCH INTO THE OVERALL COMPOSITION RESPECTS THE VERNACULAR QUALITIES, DOMESTIC, FUNCTIONAL, AND CULTURAL AND CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAKE THIS SITE UNIQUE. THE UNDERREPRESENTED PRESENCE AND SIGNIFICANCE OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN SAN ANTONIO AND THE STATE OF TEXAS IS PHYSICALLY REPRESENTED, INCLUDING INTERPRETIVE ELEMENTS OF THE ST. JAMES A M E CHURCH, KLENKE MANGER, SOAP WORKS, ALAMO ICE AND ALAMO ICE AND BREWERY, AND OTHER APPROPRIATE HISTORIC ELEMENTS PROVIDES OPPORTUNITIES TO EDUCATE THE COMMUNITY AND VISITORS ABOUT THE NEGLECTED HISTORY AND CULTURE, WHICH BIND THE HISTORIC TRACES TO THE MODERN IMPROVEMENTS. THE PROPOSED PLAN REPRESENTS A CREATIVE SOLUTION THAT RESPECTS THE COMPLEX YET AUTHENTIC FABRIC OF SAN ANTONIO. I RESPECTFULLY ENCOURAGE POSITIVE ACTION BY THE COMMISSION IN FAVOR OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE HAVE QUITE A FEW FOR ITEM FIVE, THIS IS ALLISON HUGH, RESIDENT AT 6 0 9 HAYES LEAVING A ME A MESSAGE IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT AT NORTH HACKBERRY STREET BETWEEN NOLAN AND HAYES. CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 1 6 2 7. AS A RESIDENT AND EXPERIENCED URBAN DESIGNER, I WANT TO EXPRESS MY FULL SUPPORT FOR THE TIMELY EXECUTION OF CITY. PROPOSED PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS ON HACKBERRY STREET. THE UPDATES FOLLOW INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICES AND WILL PROVIDE BASIC A D A ACCESSIBILITY AND INCREASED SAFETY TO AN ACCIDENT PRONE SITE. THE LOCATION IS CRITICAL TO PARK ACCESS WHILE SERVING AS A KEY SEGMENT ALONG A ROUTE BETWEEN USERS OF PUBLIC TRANSIT, BOTH SCHOOL AGED AND ELDERLY RESIDENTS OF BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE HOUSING AS WELL AS LOCAL BUSINESS. WHILE JUST TO START THOUGHTFULLY DESIGNED STREET BUFFERS AND ROAD DIETS ARE A GREAT START TO ENCOURAGING BROADER COMMUNITY HEALTH AND COMPLETE MOBILITY. ACCORDING TO THE INSTITUTE OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, STUDIES POINT TO THE MANY ADVANTAGES OF IMPLEMENTING ROAD DIETS. THE US DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOUND THAT ROAD DIETS CAN REDUCE TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS BY AN AVERAGE 29%. AND IN SMALLER TOWNS CAN CUT CRASHES NEARLY IN HALF ROAD DIETS REDUCE VEHICLE SPEEDS AND MINIMIZE CONFLICTS, MAKING LOADS OF TRANSPORTATION SAFER BY REDUCING THE CROSSING DISTANCE BETWEEN SIDEWALKS. I AM PROUD OF OUR CITY FOR PRIORITIZING THE SAFETY OF OUR RESIDENTS. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS BARBARA GARCIA, MY HUSBAND JUAN AND I LIVE AT 9 32, EXCUSE ME, NORTH PINE STREET. AND I'M CALLING ABOUT CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 6 27. BOTH MY HUSBAND AND I ARE IN FULL SUPPORT OF THIS, UH, CASE. WE HOPE YOU APPROVE. THANK YOU. I GOT RECORDED. HELLO, MY NAME IS BRIAN DILLARD. UH, MY ADDRESS IS 7 1 6 HAY STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 0 2. I'M CALLING ABOUT, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, UH, FOR A DECEMBER 15TH HEARING. UH, THE H R R C CASE NUMBER IS 20 21 6 2 7 [00:15:02] AND IT'S AT NORTH HACKBERRY STREET BETWEEN NOLAN AND HAYES. IT'S, UH, REGARDING THE PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS. UM, I'M COMMENTING TO VOICE SUPPORT, UH, FOR THIS EFFORT. UH, I WAS VICE PRESIDENT OF DIG WIT HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IN 2015 AND I WAS PRESIDENT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION FROM 2016 TO 2018. I WAS ALSO CO-CHAIR OF THE 2017 PARKS AND RECS, UH, BOND COMMITTEE. UH, SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROJECT. IN FACT, UH, BETWEEN 2015 AND 2018, UH, WE DID A LOT OF ACTIVITY AND ENGAGED IN COMMUNITY THAT WAS GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN THIS IMPROVEMENT. UH, NOT ONLY JUST THE STREET TO REDUCTION OR STREET DIET, ROAD DIET, UH, BUT ALSO THE DRASTIC IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PARK THAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW. THIS WAS DONE THROUGH AN ORGANIZATION CALLED P SS E. UM, THEIR WEBSITE IS PSE.ORG. UH, I RECOMMEND ANYONE THAT HAS ANY CONFUSION ABOUT THAT COMMUNIC ENGAGEMENT TO GO TO THAT WEBSITE AND CHECK OUT ALL THE WORK THAT WE DID OVER THREE YEARS AND THE FOLKS THAT LED THAT EFFORT. UM, WE ENGAGED OVER 350 PEOPLE AT SELO, UH, IN FALL 2015. UH, WE CONDUCTED MANY DIFFERENT, WE, WE'VE, UH, SURVEYED AT MANY DIFFERENT EVENTS FROM THE AUSTIN DOWDEN ELEMENTARY, ALL THE ONE ASSOCIATION MEETINGS. UM, THIS WAS ALL DONE AGAIN BETWEEN THE YEARS OF 20 20 15 TO 2018. AND OF COURSE THIS WAS THE PROPOSAL THAT WAS PUT FORTH IN THE 2017 BOND PROGRAM. THIS ROAD DIET WAS ACTUALLY A PIECE OF THAT, THAT PART. SO JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT WAS CONDUCTED AND COMMUNITY INPUT, UH, WAS CONDUCTED AND IT WAS APPROVED BY THE COMMUNITY, UH, YEARS AGO. SO, WANNA COMMENT, VOICE SUPPORT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. HI, MY NAME IS VALERIE CORTEZ AND I RESIDE AT 5 0 8 LAMAR. I AM REPRESENTING THE CONCERNED RESIDENTS OF DIGNA WITTY HILL, AND I AM COMMENTING ON CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 6 27. WE DO NOT AGREE WITH OH, P'S APPROVED RECOMMENDATION TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF AUTOMOBILE LANES FROM FOUR TO TWO ALONG NORTH HACKBERRY FROM HAY STREET TO NOLAN STREET, AND STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE PROPOSED CONFIGURATION WILL SEVERELY NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE OVERALL STREETSCAPE. NORTH HACKBERRY IS A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE THAT ACCOMMODATES HEAVY TRAFFIC, CONNECTING I 35 ON THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY ALL THE WAY PAST HIGHWAY 90 ON THE SOUTHERN BOUNDARY. QUESTIONS WE WOULD LIKE ANSWERED ARE HOW WILL TRAFFIC BE DIRECTED WHEN GOING FROM A FOUR LANE TO A TWO LANE STREET AT THE INTERSECTIONS OF NOLAN AND NORTH HACKBERRY AND HAYES AND NORTH HACKBERRY? HOW WILL MOTORISTS BE DIRECTED TO CONVERGE INTO ONE LANE EACH WAY? HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE BEING CREATED TO ACCOMMODATE THIS TWO LANE STREET? IS THE NUMBER OF PROPOSED PARKING SPACES BEING ADDED WORTH THE TROUBLE IT WILL CAUSE? ADDITIONALLY, IN THE PUBLIC WORKS INTERDEPARTMENTAL CORRESPONDENCE FROM THERESA LARSSON TO MIRANDA GARRISON DATED NOVEMBER 29TH, 2021. THE LAST SENTENCE IN THE SEC SECOND PARAGRAPH STATES THAT THE PROPOSED PROJECT HAS BEEN MADE PUBLIC TO THE NEIGHBORS AND RECEIVED SUPPORT. THIS IS NOT A TRUE STATEMENT. THIS WAS NEVER PRESENTED AT ANY DIGNA WITTY HILL NA MEETING, NOR WAS IT EVER POSTED ON THE DIGNA HILL FACEBOOK SITE AND AN EMAIL NOTIFYING THE RESIDENTS WAS NEVER SENT OUT TO ANYONE. WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO APPROVED THIS SPECIFIC DESIGN AND WHEN IT WAS APPROVED, THE CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIG WOODY HILL ARE TRYING TO INFORM ALL NEIGHBORS IN THIS DISTRICT OF THIS CASE TO GET THEIR FEEDBACK BECAUSE WE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT. WE ARE REQUESTING THAT IT BE DELAYED UNTIL WE CAN GET ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK FROM RESIDENTS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. PLEASE SEE MY EMAIL. HELLO, MY NAME IS EDUARDO MARTINEZ. I AM A RESIDENCE AT BIGNOTTI HILL AT 8 1 5 NORTH HACKBERRY STREET. I'M CALLING IN REGARDS TO H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 21 6 2 7 IN REGARDS TO THE PEDESTRIAN IMPROVEMENTS ON HACKBERRY STREET BETWEEN NOLAN AND HAYES. I AM CALLING TO VOICE MY STRONG SUPPORT FOR THIS PROPOSAL IN THIS PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD AS DESIGNED, UH, SINCE ITS INCEPTION IN 2014 AND ITS BOND PASSAGE IN 2017. THERE'S BEEN NUMEROUS OPPORTUNITIES FOR PUBLIC INPUT, NEIGHBORHOOD INPUT ABOUT THIS PROJECT AND I FEEL IT'S TIME TO MOVE FORWARD ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE PARK PROJECT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. BYE-BYE. YES, THIS IS LIZ FRANKLIN. I LIVE AT FIVE 15 HAY STREET AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE, UH, SOME RECORDED COMMENTS ON H D R C CASE 2 0 2 1 DASH 6 2 7. UH, REGARDING THE LINK, UH, LANE REDUCTION DOWN ON NORTH HACKBERRY. UH, SIMPLY PUT, I'M NOT SURE IF I OPPOSE IT OR I SUPPORT IT. I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. I THINK, UM, I THINK THERE'S SOME CONFUSION ON WHETHER OR NOT THE COMMUNITY WAS FULLY INFORMED OR NOT, UM, DURING [00:20:01] MAYBE THE DIGNITY HILL IN LA LOCKWOOD PARK. UM, CHARETTE, HAVING SAID ALL THAT, UH, THERE WAS NO ROBUST DISCUSSION. DID THAT ONE COME? YES, THIS IS LIZ FRANKLIN, A ROBUST DISCUSSION. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS LULU FRANCOIS. I LIVE AT 8 1 7 NOLAN AND I'M CALLING IN TO COMMENT ON H D R C C CASE 2021 DASH 6 2 7 REDUCING NORTH HACKBERRY FROM FOUR LANES TO TWO LANES BETWEEN NOLAN AND HAYES. AS A PROPERTY OWNER WHO LIVES ON NOLAN, I'M ASKING THAT THIS CASE BE POSTPONED SO THAT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO CAN MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS OF DIGNA WITTY HILL TO REVIEW THIS REQUEST AND SHOW US HOW TRAFFIC PATTERNS ON NOLAN AND HAY STREET WILL BE AFFECTED WITH ITS PROPOSED REDUCTION IN LANES. I ATTENDED ALL THREE CHARETTES AT THE CITY HILL TO TO REVIEW THE DESIGN OF THE NEW DIGNA WHITTY HILL PARK. WE HAD OPEN DISCUSSIONS ABOUT AND VOTED ON THE TYPE OF WATER FEATURE WE WANTED, THE TYPE OF GAZEBO WE WANTED, THE TYPE OF MATERIAL WE PREFER TO USE FOR THE WALKWAYS, AND WHETHER WE WANTED TO HAVE GIANT BOULDERS OR BENCHES TO SIT ON AMONGST OTHER THINGS. WE ALSO HAD CONCERNED DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE TYPE OF PUBLIC BATHROOMS THEY WANTED TO INSTALL AND IF THE PLUGS AT THE BASKETBALL COURT COULD BE COVERED UP SO THAT THE HOMELESS COULDN'T HAVE A PLACE TO SHOOT UP WHILE THEY WERE CHARGING THEIR PHONES. BUT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO NEVER PUBLICLY BROUGHT UP THAT THEY WANTED TO REDUCE THE LANES ON NORTH HACKBERRY FROM FOUR TO TWO LANES. IF THEY HAD, I'M PRETTY SURE WE WOULD'VE HAD A MAJOR DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. MY MAIN AREA OF CONCERN IS WHAT TYPE OF DIRECTIONAL OPTIONS WILL DRIVERS HAVE TO FOLLOW ONCE THEY GET TO NORTH HACKBERRY AND NOLAN OR NORTH HACKBERRY AND HAY STREET? HOW MUCH MORE TRAFFIC WILL BE DIRECTED TO THESE STREETS, ESPECIALLY IF A MOTORIST FINDS HIMSELF IN THE WRONG LANE? NOLAN IS ALREADY A HEAVILY TRAVELED STREET WITH LIMITED LIGHTS AND STOP SIGNS AND ADDING MORE TRAFFIC TO IT IN EITHER DIRECTION IS NOT A GOOD OPTION. SO AGAIN, PLEASE POSTPONE THIS VOTE UNTIL AFTER THE CITY HAS HAD A CHANCE TO MEET WITH THE RESIDENTS TO ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS AND HEAR OUR CONCERNS AND POSSIBLY COME UP WITH SOLUTION THAT WILL MAKE THE NORTH HACKBERRY AND NOLAN AND HAY STREET RESIDENTS HAPPY. THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM 11. MY NAME IS MARLENE HAWKINS. I LIVE AT 6 0 1 EAST CARSON IN GOVERNMENT HILL AND I'M CALLING ABOUT AGENDA ITEM CONSENT. THE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 11 20 21 6 3 1. AND I'M ASKING YOU NOT TO GRANT THE, THE HISTORIC TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION 'CAUSE THE WORK HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED THERE. FROM MY HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET, I CAN SEE FOUR BOARDED UP WINDOWS. THEY PUT IN 10 PILLOW WINDOW WINDOWS WHEN YOU GRANTED THEM ONLY FOUR. SO THOSE HAVE NOT BEEN CHANGED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL YET. JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO YOU TOLD THE ACOSTAS THAT THEY COULDN'T GET THEIR TAX VERIFICATION CERTIFICATION UNTIL EVERYTHING WAS COMPLETED ON THEIR HOUSE. I EXPECT THIS, UH, SITUATION TO BE TREATED THE SAME. UH, THAT THEY WILL NOT GET THEIR TAX CREDIT, UH, TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION UNTIL ALL THE WORK HAS BEEN DONE AND ALL THE WINDOWS THAT WERE NOT APPROVED BY YOU ARE REPLACED WITH THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS, WHICH ARE STILL THERE ON SITE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OKAY, I [CONSENT AGENDA Items are placed on the consent agenda when staff recommends approval or recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant agrees to. Any member of the public desiring to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and be heard prior to voting on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda and have it placed on the individual consideration agenda. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.  ] THINK THAT'S ALL OUR VOICEMAILS AFTER HEARING THEM DO COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY ITEMS FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION? MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. UM, PULL NUMBER FIVE, HACKBERRY. AND I'D LIKE TO PULL NUMBER 11. EDWARD, CAN YOU MARK THOSE ON THE SCREEN FOR US? MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR, SIX THROUGH 10, 12 THROUGH 14 BASED UPON STAFF'S FINDINGS, RECOMMENDATIONS, AND WITH STAFF'S, UH, STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS IS ABSENT FISH AYE. SINA AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. ABSENT MASUKA AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. ANTE. AYE. THAT SIR? AYE AND LA IS RECUSED. MOTION PASSES IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR, YOUR ADDRESS IS 1 24 NORTH MAINE, 1 46 NAVARRO 3 0 5 SOLEDAD SAN PEDRO CREEK, ONE 30 EAST ROSEWOOD 2 41 HERMINE THREE 18 REFUGIO [00:25:01] 3 0 5 WEST KINGS HIGHWAY 3 0 6, KING WILLIAM 2 22 WEST WOODLAWN, 8 28 NEVADA, AND 1202 SOUTH ALAMO. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU NO LONGER NEED TO STAY IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. OKAY. UM, WE'LL [INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION] HEAR ITEM FIVE. UM, IF I HAVE THE APPLICANT COME ON UP AND THEN AS SHE APPROACHES, I'LL JUST SAY I WASN'T ANTICIPATING SO MUCH, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT ABOUT TRAFFIC. UM, AND SO WHAT IS UP FOR DISCUSSION TODAY IN ACTION IS NOT NECESSARILY THE, THE CHANGE IN TRAFFIC CONFIGURATION FOR THE STREETS, BUT THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL CHANGE TO THE CURB LOCATION. SO THERE ARE SOME BUMPOUTS AND PARKING, SO THE BUMPOUTS ARE, ARE PART OF THE REQUEST, BUT THE ACTUAL QUESTION ABOUT TRAFFIC AND WHY THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE, CERTAINLY THE APPLICANT SPEAK CAN SPEAK TO THOSE BUT ARE NOT IN THE PURVIEW OF THE COMMISSION. OKAY. I READ THIS JUST TO TALK, UH, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. O H P ATTENDANCE. UH, MY NAME IS MIRANDA GARRISON. I'M WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UM, ENVIRONMENTAL DEPARTMENT WITH PUBLIC WORKS. UM, THIS IS OUR PROJECT AND, UM, JUST TO KIND OF GO BACK TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT SOME OF THE CITIZENS HAD. UM, WE INITIALLY STARTED THIS PROJECT, UM, IT WAS ACTUALLY BETWEEN THE DIG DITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THE PUBLIC SPACE EAST. AND IT STARTED IN 2016. UM, AND BY 2016 OCTOBER, THEY HAD COME UP WITH A MASTER PLAN FOR THE PARK. AND THAT INCLUDED THE ROAD DIET FOR HACKBERRY. THERE WAS A SCHEMATIC THAT SHOWED THAT, UM, WE HAD SEVERAL, AT LEAST TWO PUBLIC MEETINGS, UM, IN MAY OF 2017. UM, AND THE BIG PRIORITIES THAT CAME FROM THOSE MEETINGS WERE THE CLOSURE OF BURNETT TO JOIN THE TWO PARK PARCELS INTO ONE, A NEW PLAYGROUND AND STREET SCAPE IMPROVEMENTS ALONG HACKBERRY, WHICH INCLUDED THAT ROAD DIET. UM, APPARENTLY THERE HAD BEEN SEVERAL ACCIDENTS ALONG THAT WAY. UM, THE, THE NEIGHBORS THAT LIVED ALONG THAT STREET WERE CONCERNED, UM, ABOUT THE NUMBER OF ACCIDENTS THEY WERE HAVING AND THEY WANTED TO MAKE IT MORE CONDUCIVE TO A PARK. SO THEY WANTED TO INCLUDE, UM, PARKING FOR THE PARK AND THEN NARROW IT DOWN TO ONE LANE FROM TWO, UM, AND THEN LET'S, BY 2021, UM, WE HAD ALSO PROVIDED, WE PROVIDED UPDATED PLANS FOR THAT HACKBERRY, UH, ROAD DIET IN JULY, 2020 THIRD, 2021, SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2021 AND DECEMBER 7TH, 2021 TO THE DIGNA WOODY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. SO THEY WERE VERY MUCH AWARE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING. THEY WERE IN FULL SUPPORT OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING. UM, AND TO ADDRESS THE ACTUAL COMMENTS IN THE LETTER THAT WAS, UM, SENT, UH, HOW WILL TRAFFIC BE DIRECTED WHEN GOING FROM FOUR LANES TO TWO LANES? UH, THE TWO EXISTING NORTHBOUND THROUGH LANES ON NORTH HACKBERRY AND NOLAN STREET WILL BE CONVERTED TO ONE, UH, NORTHBOUND THROUGH LANE AND ONE DEDICATED EASTBOUND RIGHT TURN LANE. THE TWO SOUTHBOUND THROUGH LANES ON NORTH HACKBERRY AND HAY STREET WILL BE MERGED INTO ONE LANE BETWEEN LAMAR STREET AND HAY STREET. UH, THE OTHER QUESTION WAS HOW WILL MOTORISTS BE DIRECTED TO CONVERGE INTO ONE WAY LANE? EACH WAY MOTORISTS WILL BE DIRECTED TO CONVERGE INTO ONE LANE EACH WAY BY SIGNAGE AND ROADWAY STRIPING. UH, THE NEXT QUESTION WAS, HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE BEING CREATED TO ACCOMMODATE THIS TWO LANE STREET? APPROXIMATELY 35 SPACES, UH, IS THE NUMBER OF PROPOSED PARKING SPACES BEING, WE ACTUALLY DID A TRAFFIC STUDY, UM, FOR THAT AREA BEFORE THE DESIGN. UH, A TRAFFIC STUDY WAS PERFORMED TO ANALYZE TRAFFIC PATTERNS RESULTING FROM THE DIRECTION IN TRAVEL LANES. AND THE ANALYSIS SHOWED NO OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY CONCERNS AND ALL INTERSECTIONS WILL CONTINUE TO FUNCTION IN AN ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF SERVICE WITH OR WITHOUT A REDISTRIBUTION OF TRAFFIC TO OTHER ROUTES. UM, SO WE FEEL LIKE IT'S A GREAT, UM, PROJECT FOR THAT AREA. UH, OBVIOUSLY WE SUPPORT IT , UM, BUT WE DID HAVE, UH, THE FULL SUPPORT OF THE DIGNA WITTY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AT THE SAME TIME. SO THANK YOU. COMMISSIONERS WITH QUESTIONS? YES, I DO. SO I THINK THE BIG THING IS THE TRAFFIC. THINK THE BIG THING IS THE TRAFFIC ON THIS. YES. UM, WHEN YOU SAY A TRAFFIC STUDY WAS ZONED, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TRAFFIC ANALYSIS, HOW DETAILED WAS THAT? WAS THAT JUST IN THEORY? WAS THAT JUST THIS STREET? WAS THAT THE ADJOINING STREETS? BECAUSE WHEN YOU CLOSE TWO LANES LIKE THIS, IT HAS A CASCADING EFFECT. I MEAN, FOR PROBABLY THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD IS AS FAR AS TRAFFIC FLOWS. [00:30:01] SO I JUST WANT A LITTLE MORE DETAILS AND I KNOW THE CITY OFFERS THAT SERVICE AS WELL. YES. IT WAS AN ANALYSIS OF THE TRAFFIC PATTERNS. SO IT WAS, IT WAS, UH, DETAILED TO THAT SPECIFIC SPOT. YES. SO THE REASON I BRING IT UP IS I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE THE BIG, THE BIG RUB WITH A LOT OF LOT OF PEOPLE IS THAT, IS THAT TRAFFIC IS THAT CLOSING THOSE LANES, UM, AND AND THE CASCADING EFFECT IT'LL HAVE, RIGHT? YES. YOU KNOW, FOUR TO 10 BLOCKS OUT. UM, RIGHT. AND SO THEY HAD, UH, DECIDED THAT IT, THE ANALYSIS SHOWED NO OPERATIONAL OR SAFETY CONCERNS. UM, ALL INTERSECTIONS WILL CONTINUE TO AFFECT IT ACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF SERVICE WITH OR WITHOUT A REDISTRIBUTION OF TRAFFIC TO OTHER ROUTES. IT YOU PRESENTED THAT TO THE STAFF. THE STAFF HAS THAT STAFF DOES NOT HAVE THAT BECAUSE WE WERE NOT EXPECTING ALL OF THE TRAFFIC TO BE PART, UH, I USUALLY DON'T INCLUDE IT A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS IN THE APPLICATION FOR THE C O A. SO, BUT I CAN FOLLOW UP WITH THAT. YEAH, THAT'S GONNA BE, THAT'S GONNA BE A BIG, UH, ISSUE RIGHT THERE. MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE TWO QUICK QUESTIONS. YES, MS. GARRISON IS, IS THERE GOING TO BE A SLOWDOWN OF TRAFFIC, A POSTED SIGNAGE OR IS THAT, IS THE SPEED OF THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THIS AREA GOING TO BE REDUCED? I'M NOT SURE IF THE SPEED IS GOING TO BE REDUCED. I CAN FIND THAT OUT FOR YOU. UM, I BELIEVE THE SPEED RIGHT NOW IS 30 MILES PER HOUR. I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WILL NECESSARILY BE REDUCED, BUT I CAN FIND THAT INFORMATION OUT FOR YOU. ALRIGHT. AND JUST SO THAT STAFF ISN'T WORRYING THAT I'M BRO BROACHING OFF INTO TRAFFIC ISSUES TOO MUCH, I MEAN, THAT'S FINE. I MEAN, THIS IS A, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CONSTRICT SOMETHING PHYSICALLY, YOU ALSO WANNA SORT OF SLOW DOWN TRAFFIC, WHICH IS IDEAL RIGHT NEXT TO THE PARK. I MEAN, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS ERIC RENA. I AM THE PUBLIC WORKS PROJECT MANAGER FOR THE PARK PROJECT AND HAS BEEN, UH, MANAGING IN COOPERATION WITH THE, UH, STREET ENGINEERS FOR THE STREET PROJECT. UH, SO, UH, COUPLE OF THINGS. SO THE SPEED LIMIT, UH, I BELIEVE IS 30. WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE SPEED LIMIT. IT IS WHAT IT IS. UH, AND JUST, I WANNA TOUCH BASE AGAIN ON THE ANALYSIS. SO THAT ANALYSIS TOOK, UH, WAS MUCH LARGER THAN JUST THE STREET. IT ACTUALLY WENT OVER TO CHERRY STREET ON THE EAST, UH, PINE STREET ON THE WEST, AND ALL THE WAY FROM HOUSTON TO 35. SO ALL THOSE TRAFFIC COUNTS, LIGHT COUNTS. THAT WAS A, A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY OF THE WHOLE AREA. GREAT, THANK YOU. MY SECOND QUESTION, UM, INVOLVES IF WE GO TO, I GUESS WE'VE GOT IT UP ON THE SCREEN, UH, SHEET NUMBER 11 IN OUR SET. UM, IT'S CLEAR THERE AT NOLAN STREET WHERE YOU, YOU HAVE THE O ONLY ONE LANE IS ADVANCING STRAIGHTFORWARD ON HACKBERRY, THE OTHER ONE'S TURNING EAST, AS YOU MENTIONED. UH, THE REASON WHY THAT SAME STRATEGY ISN'T BEING DONE AT HACKBERRY, AT HAYES INTERSECTION IS BECAUSE THE HAYES BRIDGE IS BASICALLY DEAD END. AND DID YOUR STUDY INDICATE THERE WOULDN'T BE THE DEMAND TO HAVE A DEDICATED LANE? OKAY, THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. I GOT A QUESTION. I'M, I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN, UM, EXPRESS EVERYTHING THAT YOU EXPRESSED, BUT KIND OF QUALITATIVELY, UM, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO, YOU KNOW, HACKBERRY HAS A TRAFFIC PATTERN HISTORY, RIGHT? IT'S A, IT'S A SHORTCUT FOR SOUTHSIDERS TO GET TO 35. RIGHT? IT'S A REAL IMPORTANT, REAL IMPORTANT STREET. UM, ALSO AT NOLAN, NOLAN IS A VERY MM-HMM. DRIVEN STREET HEAVILY, UH, TRAFFICKED THESE DAYS. SO, SO THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT COMING DOWN NOLAN, THERE'S, THERE'S A TURN PATTERN THAT OCCURS AT HACKBERRY OR FROM HACKBERRY DOWN TO NOLAN. OH. HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE, UM, WHAT YOU THINK THE QUALITATIVE IMPACT IS? I MEAN, PARTICULARLY CONSIDERING THAT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF HAYES, IT'S GONNA REMAIN THE WAY THAT IT IS. AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF NOLAN, IT'S GONNA REMAIN THAT IT IS, AND IT'S JUST THIS, THIS POCKET THAT OBVIOUSLY SERVES THE, THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE PARK. RIGHT. UM, HOW, HOW CAN YOU, I MEAN, UM, COULD YOU KINDA EXPLAIN THAT JUST, JUST LIKE AS A, AS A LAY, AS A PERSON USING THE PARK, NOT AS A ENGINEER. I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN QU DO QUALITATIVE WITHOUT ACTUALLY DIGGING BACK INTO THE TRAFFIC STUDY, BUT WELL, LIKE, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, IS THERE A PARKING EXPERIENCE THAT'S BEING CREATED, UH, AS A RESULT OF THE NARROWING THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE CLOSER ACCESS TO THE YES. UH, IS IT SAFER FOR PARENTS, UH, TAKING THEIR KIDS TO AN EVENT? OKAY, YOU COULD SPEAK TO THAT. YEAH. SO WHEN WE ARE NARROWING IT DOWN TO ONE LANE, WE'RE GONNA CREATE PARKING SPACES ALONG THE SIDE. THAT ALONE IS GONNA CREATE A BUFFER TO THE SIDEWALK. SO ANYONE ON THE SIDEWALK IS AUTOMATICALLY GOING TO HAVE FURTHER DISTANCE, POSSIBLY EVEN A PARKED CAR BETWEEN THEM AND TRAFFIC. UM, IT'S ALSO GONNA PROVIDE BETTER PARKING OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE THAT WANNA COME TO THE PARK. UM, I THINK OVERALL [00:35:01] IT'S GONNA BE A SAFER SITUATION. UM, WE'RE DOING A D A IMPROVEMENTS ALONG WITH THAT. UM, AND LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THE COMMUNITY, AT LEAST THE DIGNITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION FULLY SUPPORTED IT. THEY ARE LOOKING TO THE FUTURE TO HAVE EVENTS THERE. AND SO THIS WILL HELP THEM ACCOMMODATE, UH, PARK, YOU KNOW, VISITORS. I IS THE, IS THE NARROWING FROM THE CENTER OF STREET IS OR IS IT ALL COMING FROM THE SIDE OF THE PARK? IT'S COMING FROM THE CENTER, CORRECT. THE, THE OUTSIDE LANES. YEAH. SO THE OTHER SIDE AS WELL. THE RESIDENTIAL SITE IS ALSO GONNA HAVE AN AMENITY. YES. AND APPARENTLY THEY HAD SEVERAL, UM, UH, UH, ACCIDENTS ALONG THAT WAY, UM, HITTING, UH, C P S, UM, POLES AND SUCH. SO THE ACTUAL RESIDENTS THAT LIVE ON THAT BLOCK, WERE VERY HAPPY WITH THIS, UH, NEW PLAN BECAUSE THEY'RE HOPING THAT IT WILL PREVENT THAT THOSE TYPES OF ACCIDENTS HAPPENING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR HOMES. NOW IS IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION, IS IT PART OF FUTURE PLANNING THAT NORTH OF HAYES WOULD BE RECEIVING THE SAME TRAFFIC PATTERN IN THE, IN THE FUTURE? NOT THAT I KNOW OF AT THIS TIME. NOT AT THIS TIME. MM-HMM. , UH, THEY'LL, THEY'LL BE, IF YOU KNOW HAYES, YOU KNOW THAT THE, UH, HAYES STREET BRIDGE IS NOT FAR FROM HERE. UM, AND SO THAT'S PROBABLY THE NEXT AREA OF TRANSPORTATION STUDY TO HAPPEN. AND, AND THAT'LL MORE CLEARLY DEFINE WHAT HAPPENS CLOSER TO LOCKWOOD AT HAYES BASED ON WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT AT, AT THE, THE B V D PARK WE'RE CALLING IT. OKAY. GOING TO OCCUR. HEY, THANK Y'ALL FOR, FOR THAT EXPLANATION. YES, SIR. SURE. MR. CHAIRMAN, I ALSO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. YES, MA'AM. COULD YOU PLEASE REITERATE, UM, WHEN YOU PROVIDED THE UPDATED DRAWINGS OF THIS PARTICULAR WORK TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION? SO ORIGINALLY THE SCHEMATIC WAS IN TWO PUBLIC MEETINGS THAT WE HAD IN 2018 AND 2019. AND THEN ALSO ONCE WE STARTED TO KIND OF FOCUS ON THAT PART OF THE PROJECT, WE PROVIDED, UM, UPDATED, UH, PLANS, ET CETERA TO THE DITY HILL, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IN, UM, LET ME FIND MY PAPER. JULY 23RD, 2021, ALSO SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2021, AND THEN FINALLY DECEMBER 7TH, 2021. UM, I AM GOING TO, UM, UH, ASK DO YOU, UM, IN YOUR CONVERSATION IN SENDING THAT, DID ANYONE RESPOND AND SAY THEY SHARED IT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION? I DON'T BELIEVE SO. DO YOU KNOW IF THEY ACTUALLY SHARED, IF THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SHARED IT? THOSE REQUESTS CAME DIRECTLY FROM EDDIE MARTINEZ FOR SHARING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. OKAY. UM, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THEY WERE NOT SHARED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S CULTIVATED THE CONFUSION. UM, THE, THE ROAD DIET WAS INCLUDED EARLY ON, BUT ONLY AS A, UM, A TANGENTIAL ITEM. I KNOW IN THE H D R C CASE A COUPLE YEARS BACK, THERE WAS A NOTE THAT SAID FUTURE LANE CLOSURE. SO THERE WAS A HEADS UP ON IT, BUT THE DETAILS, UM, I AM CONFIDENT DID NOT REACH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. SO THERE'S A PROCESS PROBLEM THERE TO THE CONTENT. THE, THE ROAD DIET IS A, UM, IS A VERY POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT. UM, I WOULD JUST, UH, LIKE TO ENCOURAGE THE CITY TO CONTINUE THAT NORTHWARD ALONG HACKBERRY SO THAT IT DOES NOT MAKE THAT STRETCH OF, UM, HACKBERRY SUCH AN OUTLIER. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE GOOD HABITS TO CONTINUE THROUGHOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, HACKBERRY DOES NOT TIE INTO IH 35, RIGHT? IT DEAD ENDS. SO IT'S ALMOST AS IF THE, UH, THE PARK IS THE DESTINATION FROM THAT DIRECTION ON HACKBERRY. CORRECT. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. I JUST WANTED TO FOCUS ON THE CURRENT APPLICATION. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIDEWALKS, DRIVEWAY APPROACH, A D A LANE MODIFICATION, ANY ARCHEOLOGY. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS TO THE STAFF STIPULATIONS? NO. UH, IN FACT, WE, UM, RECOMMENDED THE SAME THING, UH, REPLACING IN KIND, UH, FOLLOWING THE, UH, ALREADY ESTABLISHED PATH OF THE SIDEWALKS, UH, FILLING IN WITH THE SQUARE CURBS, UM, AS APPROPRIATE FOR A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. I'M READY TO DO A MOTION, MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? [00:40:07] WHAT? GO AHEAD AND ASK YOUR QUESTION. SO IS THAT, IS THAT APPROVING PENDING? THE, THE, THE TRAFFIC, UH, DETAILS OR BULLET WIDTH? THIS IS APPROVING WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRAFFIC. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL? PLEASE? GIB, JOIN US DURING THE MEETING. SO, GIBBS AYE FISH? AYE. SAVINA. AYE. QUEZ. AYE. LES ABSENT? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE GROUP. AYE. PERFECT. UH, ANTE? YES, BUT AYE AND AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND I JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO CONTINUE REACHING OUT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS THE, UH, PROJECT DEVELOPS AND, AND KEEPING THEM APPRISED OF THE SCHEDULE. DEFINITELY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. OKAY. ITEM 13, OR I'M SORRY, 11. AND I MEAN YOU DON'T NEED TO READ THE FULL CASE IN. SO THIS IS 5 33 EAST CARSON. THIS WAS A CASE CASE FOR HISTORIC TEXT VERIFICATION. UM, RACHEL WAS THE CASE MANAGER AND CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS. THE APPLICANT MARY JO VARGAS IS UNAVAILABLE. BASICALLY IT WAS TO, UM, I HAD PULLED THIS FOR QUESTIONS BASED ON THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, UM, AND JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT STAFF DID DO A SITE VISIT AND VERIFY THAT ALL OF THESE SCHEDULED WORK WAS DONE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE C OF A AND AND BUILDING PERMITS. YES, I CAN CONFIRM. UH, STAFF CONDUCTED A SITE VISIT ON DECEMBER 9TH AND DID NOT OBSERVE ANY VIOLATIONS ON THE PROPERTY AND FOUND THAT THE, UH, SCOPE OF WORK CONCLUDED IN THE TAX INCENTIVE APPLICATION HAD BEEN COMPLETED ACCORDING TO THE CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS AS ISSUED. THANK YOU. THAT WAS ALL I HAD. MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THERE'S NO STIPULATIONS. MOTION TO APPROVE A SECOND. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? AYE. FISH? AYE. SINA. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. ZER. AYE. ON THE AYE MOTION PASSES. OKAY. UM, JUST FOR EVERYONE HERE, UM, WE ARE GONNA GO A LITTLE BIT OUT OF ORDER. UM, WE ARE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH ITEM 19. UM, THE APPLICANT, UH, HAS A PLANE TO CATCH AND THIS WAS ACTUALLY POSTPONED FROM THE LAST HEARING, SO SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLACED FIRST ANYWAYS. UM, SO KATIE WILL READ THAT ITEM TO THE RECORD AT THIS TIME. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 19 H D R C CASE 2021 DASH 5 7 8 8 1 7 NORTH PALMETTO. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE AN EXISTING CHAIN LINK FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD WITH HORIZONTAL WOOD FENCING AND REPLACE AN EXISTING CHAIN LINK FENCE IN THE SIDE AND REAR YARD WITH A WOOD PRIVACY FENCE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE PROPOSED FRONT YARD FENCE DESIGN FEATURE TRADITIONAL VERTICAL WOOD PICKETS OR BLACK ROTT IRON TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE AN UPDATED FENCE DESIGN TO STAFF FOR REVIEW PRIOR TO RECEIVING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE, UM, A VOICEMAIL TO HEAR FOR THIS ONE AS WELL. MR. HACKLER, ARE YOU THERE? HI, YES, I'M HERE. UM, IT DIDN'T LIKE UNMUTE ME ITSELF AS I EXPECTED. UM, DID Y'ALL ALREADY PLAY THE VOICEMAIL? I KNOW MY WIFI HAD CUT OUT A WHILE AGO, SO I MIGHT HAVE MISSED THAT, BUT I KNOW I DID GET AN EMAIL ON THAT. WE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET. WE'LL LET YOU PRESENT YOUR OKAY. YOUR REQUEST FIRST TO THE COMMISSION AND THEN WE'LL PLAY THE PUBLIC COMMENT SO YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO RESPOND. OKAY. YEAH, I MEAN, LIKE, I FEEL LIKE IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD CASE. UM, OBVIOUSLY I WANNA REPLACE A CHAIN LINK. I DON'T FEEL AS THOUGH A BLACK ROD IRON FENCE WILL LOOK VERY GOOD WITH THE HOUSE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE NEIGHBORING FENCES. UM, NOR LET'S BE REAL, CAN A 26 YEAR OLD FEMALE THAT LIVES BY HERSELF AFFORD A IRON FENCE. UM, I WOULD BE WILLING TO DO A WOOD BORDERED CATTLE PANELING, WHICH I KNOW IS ALSO IN THE REQUIREMENTS, UM, AS APPROVED. [00:45:01] BUT I DID GO AHEAD AND SUBMIT A WORD DOCUMENT THAT HAS OTHER EXAMPLES OF FENCES IN DIGNITY HILLS ON HISTORIC STREETS THAT HAVE BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME FENCING THAT I'M ASKING FOR APPROVAL FOR. SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW SOME CAN BE APPROVED AND OTHERS CAN BE DENIED. UM, AND I KNOW IN ADDITION TO THE FENCE, I AM ASKING TO PUT A FRONT GATE, UM, IN FRONT OF THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH I KNOW IS ALSO AGAINST REGULATIONS. UM, AND I THINK THE REQUIREMENTS SAY THAT IT CAN'T BE ACCESSIBLE FROM A PRIMARY ROAD. IT HAS TO BE ACCESSIBLE FROM AN ALLEY AND IT CAN'T BE IN FRONT OF THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE. BUT I HAVE SECURITY REASONS AND SAFETY REASONS THAT I WOULD PREFER NOT TO PUT A GATE, UM, ACCESSIBLE FROM THE ALLEY GOING INTO MY BACKYARD BECAUSE MY HOUSE HAS ALREADY BEEN BROKEN INTO SINCE AUGUST. AND THEY ACCESS ACCESS TO MY HOUSE FROM THE ALLEY, FROM THE GATE THAT'S ALREADY THERE. I ALSO HAVE THREE DOGS, SO I HAVE NO WAY TO PREVENT THEM FROM GOING OUT THE GATE. SO THE ONLY VIABLE AREA FOR ME TO PUT IT IS THE FRONT. THANK YOU. IF YOU'D PLAY THE COMMENTS PLEASE. HELLO, MY NAME IS VALERIE CORTES AND I LIVE AT 5 0 8 LAMAR. I'M REPRESENTING THE CONCERNS AND RESIDENTS OF DIGNITY WHITTY HILL, AND I AM COMMENTING ON H D R C CASE 2 0 21 DASH 5 78 FOR EIGHT 17 NORTH PALMETTO. WE AGREE WITH O P'S RECOMMENDATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THE HORIZONTAL BOARDS FOR THE FRONT YARD. THE FACT THAT THE APPLICANT IS USING NON H D R C APPROVED HORIZONTAL FENCE EXAMPLES OF OTHER PROPERTIES DOES NOT MAKE THEIR REQUEST ANY MORE RELEVANT. CAN O H P ALSO LOOK AT THE CURRENT WINDOWS? THEY DO NOT LOOK LIKE THEY MEET O H P GUIDELINES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. I HAVE A QUESTION TO THE APPLICANT. UM, THAT GATE THAT YOU WANNA PUT IN THE FRONT, ARE YOU CREATING A DRIVEWAY? I DON'T SEE A DRIVEWAY IN THE PICTURES OR HAS IT ALREADY BEEN DONE? IT NOTHING ELSE HAS BEEN DONE. I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO THE HOUSE. UM, I, I DO WANT TO DO A DRIVEWAY AND I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO PUT A CARPORT ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, BUT I KNOW THERE'S LIKE A LIMIT ON HOW LONG PERMITS CAN BE OUTSTANDING WITHOUT THE WORK BEING DONE. SO I HAVEN'T SUBMITTED THOSE PERMITS YET BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHEN I'LL HAVE THE FUNDS TO ACTUALLY DO THOSE PROJECTS. BUT THE IDEA YES, IS TO DO A RIBBON DRIVEWAY, WHICH I KNOW IS APPROVED WITHIN Y'ALL'S REQUIREMENTS AND THEN A CARPORT, AND THEN THAT TREE THAT'S RIGHT THERE IS BASICALLY DEAD. SO I WILL BE SUBMITTING A PERMIT TO REMOVE THAT TREE AND ALSO A PERMIT TO MOVE THE AC UNIT TO THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY, LIKE THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. OKAY. AND RIGHT NOW, IS THERE A DRIVEWAY FROM THE BACK OR WHERE DO YOU PARK? I DON'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY RIGHT NOW. IT'S JUST THE ALLEY. SO YOU DON'T PARK YOUR CAR INSIDE THE PROPERTY? NO. SO I, I CURRENTLY DON'T RESIDE AT THE PROPERTY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE TO PARK, NOR CAN I KEEP MY DOGS IN A CHAIN LIKE FENCE BECAUSE I HAVE AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOGS AND THEY WILL LEARN HOW TO JUMP THAT FENCE VERY QUICKLY. UM, SO I CANNOT KEEP THEM AT THE PROPERTY. SO I'M PAYING FOR A HOUSE THAT I CAN'T LIVE IN RIGHT NOW. SO I'M, I'M, I'M KIND OF IN AGREEMENT WITH STAFF. UM, WE LOOK AT WHAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE BLOCK AND UM, AND ALSO THERE'S A LETTER FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. UM, I'M JUST A LITTLE BIT WORRIED ABOUT APPROVING THE GATE WITHOUT REALLY GETTING AN IDEA OF, OF WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN BEYOND THE GATE. AND ALSO HERE, UM, I WAS COMMENTED THAT THERE'S NO CURB CUT, IS THERE'S NO CURB CUT ON THE PROPERTY, SO I'M ASSUMING SHE WOULD GO GET THAT APPROVED AS WELL, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH. WHENEVER I DO ANYTHING, LIKE I'LL GET THE CURB CUT, I WON'T TAKE OUT THE SIDEWALK. I WILL PUT JUST LIKE CONCRETE DRIVEWAY UP TO THE SIDEWALK, WHICH IS DONE ABOUT TWO OR THREE HOUSES DOWN FROM MY PROPERTY. AND THEN THE VEHICLE GATE, A RIBBON DRIVEWAY AND A CARPORT THAT MATCHES THE EXACT HOUSE. SAME SHINGLES, SAME SIDING, SAME COLOR, SAME EVERYTHING. AND IT'LL BLEND IN WITH THE HOUSE AND IT'LL JUST BE AN OPEN CARPORT ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. MS. HAGLER, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ALSO REGARDING THE FRONT YARD FENCE. UM MM-HMM. , WHAT IS YOUR MAIN CONCERN WITH THE CHANGE OF MATERIAL AND THE CHANGE OF STYLE? MIGHT IT BE AN AESTHETIC ONE OR MIGHT IT BE A SECURITY ONE? MIGHT IT BE SOMETHING ELSE? UM, THE ONLY REASON, LIKE I HAVE NO SAFETY REASONS FOR [00:50:01] WANTING THE HORIZONTAL BOARDS. IT'S MORE OF JUST AN AESTHETIC. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I'M A, I'M 26 YEAR OLD, UM, MOVING DOWNTOWN. IT'S RECENTLY GETTING GENTRIFIED. THE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE GETTING YOUNGER AND YOUNGER. WE ARE A MORE MODERN GENERATION. SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO MODERNIZE THE HOUSE A LITTLE BIT TO FIT MORE OF LIKE MY AESTHETIC WITHOUT CHANGING THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE OF THE HOUSE. BUT LIKE I SAID, I'M ALSO WILLING TO DO THE WOOD BORDERED. CATTLE PANELING FENCE ISN'T LIKE A DEAL BREAKER FOR ME. IT'S MOSTLY JUST THE GATE. OKAY. I DON'T MIND CHANGING THE DESIGN OF MY FENCE. YEAH, BECAUSE I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT CONSIDERED HISTORIC BY MOST CITIES, EVEN THOUGH I MAY BE AN OUTLIER AND WILL ARGUE THAT CHAIN LINK FENCE IS ACTUALLY A MORE APPROPRIATE FIT FOR YOUR HOUSE FOR A VICTORIAN OR FOLK VICTORIAN, IT HAS A LIGHTNESS, AN AIRINESS ABOUT IT. MORE DELICATE LOOK ABOUT IT THAN HORIZONTAL BOARDS. UM, ANOTHER WAY YOU COULD, UM, KEEP, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CHAIN LINK BECAUSE OF, UM, MAYBE IT'S URBAN LOOK OR FOR SOME OTHER AESTHETIC REASON, UM, YOU CAN ALWAYS TAKE THE CHAIN LINK OFF AND REPLACE IT WITH A VICTORIAN GARDEN LOOP, WHICH WOULD BE EVEN MORE APPROPRIATE FOR YOUR HOUSE. AND RECALL THAT WHEN WE DO HAVE OPEN FENCES LIKE THESE, THEY'RE OFTEN PLANTED. THAT'S PART OF THE AESTHETIC, PART OF THE DEFINING CHARACTER OF THE FOLK VICTORIAN. SO, UM, JUST TO ADD THAT TO YOUR, UH, CONSIDERATION. OKAY. SO IF I WERE TO RESUBMIT A PERMIT FOR THE FRONT FENCE, CHANGING THE DESIGN TO A WOOD BORDERED CATTLE PANELING, WOULD THAT NOT BE APPROVED EITHER? I THINK THAT'S A QUESTION FOR STAFF. SO THOSE, UM, TAYLOR, THOSE ARE, UM, IT IS A COMMON STYLE. WE TYPICALLY RECOMMEND THOSE FOR LIKE CRAFTSMAN STYLE HOUSES, UM MM-HMM. , BUT YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD MENTION THAT AND SEE WHAT THE COMMISSION CAN STILL CONSIDER THAT AS AN OPTION. OKAY. YEAH. 'CAUSE LIKE I, I WOULD OBVIOUSLY WOULD LIKE TO MOVE INTO MY HOUSE, SO I DON'T WANNA HAVE TO DO THIS AGAIN IN LIKE ANOTHER MONTH AND PAY FOR A MONTH, ANOTHER MONTH OF A HOUSE THAT I'M NOT LIVING IN. UM, SO I KNOW THAT LIKE Y'ALL HAVE REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, AND Y'ALL ARE VERY SPECIFIC ON WHAT FENCES GO TOWARDS WHAT HOUSE. BUT IF IT'S A TYPE OF FENCE THAT'S IN Y'ALL'S REQUIREMENTS, HOW CAN IT BE DENIED? JUST BECAUSE THE COMMITTEE DOESN'T THINK IT FITS WITH MY HOUSE. MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. UM, I THINK THAT WAS A, AN AGREEMENT OF SORTS THAT WOULD MAKE A GOOD MOTION. SO I'M WANNA MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE REQUEST FOR CHANGE OF THE FENCE TO THE CATTLE TYPE FENCE WITH A, WITH A PROVISION FOR FUTURE GATE ONCE A RESUBMITTAL WITH A CURB CUT AND, UM, UH, FOR APPROVAL OF THE TYPE OF DRIVEWAY. BUT THAT, BUT THAT IN THIS MOTION, THIS MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF A CH FENCE CHANGE TO A CATTLE TYPE WITH A GATE, VEHICLE GATE AND A PEDESTRIAN GATE. WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? YES, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? MR. CHAIRMAN, I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. AND THIS IS NOT BEFORE US TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS TODAY, BUT YOU, YOU RECENTLY ACQUIRED THIS HOUSE, RIGHT? YOU DID NOT MAKE THE CHANGES TO THE WINDOWS, CORRECT? NO, I BOUGHT THE HOUSE IN AUGUST AND I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING TO THE HOUSE OTHER THAN FIX SOME WOOD FLOORING INSIDE. RIGHT. THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO RESPOND TO THAT QUESTION FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S, UH, LETTER MM-HMM. . AND I'M SORRY, I WANTED TO GET CLARIFICATION. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, UM, CAN YOU JUST CLARIFY THE, YOU DID, YOU WERE OKAY WITH THE DRIVE, THE, THE DRIVEWAY GATE ACROSS THE, UM, THE FRONT PROPERTY THERE AS PROPOSED A ACROSS A DIFFERENT PROPERTY? NO, THE SHE'S, SO SHE'S PROPOSING THE, UM, THE, THE GATE ACROSS THE, THE DRIVEWAY VERSUS BEING SET BACK? YES, YES, YES. THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? I'M JUST GONNA SAY THAT I'M, I'M NOT GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION, NOT THAT I DON'T WANT THE APPLICANT TO HAVE A GATE OR A FENCE, IT'S JUST, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE FENCE FOR THE BLOCK OR THE PROPERTY. MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU. YES, SIR. I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT PROVISIONS FOR A GATE BEING PUT IN BEFORE THERE IS A, A DRAWING THAT SHOWS A PROPOSED CURVE CUT AND DRIVE AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S ESSENTIALLY ROOM ON THE SITE PLAN FOR THAT TO BE AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION. SO I DO HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS ABOUT THAT. I I WOULD SUPPORT THE CATTLE PANEL PORTION OF THE MOTION, BUT I'LL BE A NO ON THIS, ON THIS VOTE. MR. CHAIRMAN, MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION TO THE MOTION [00:55:01] OR, UM, PERHAPS WE MAKE A CONDITION THAT THE, UH, APPLICANT, UH, BEFORE RECEIVING A C OF A, UH, COMES BACK WITH THAT INFORMATION? UH, YES. UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, THAT WAS THE INTENT IS MORE THAT, UM, KNOWING THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE THE COMMISSION WITH RESPECT TO THE TYPE OF DRIVEWAY, BUT THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO REVISIT THE IDEA THAT THERE'S A GATE. 'CAUSE THAT COULD BE A WHOLE NOTHER PROCESS SO THAT IF THE GATE IS APPROVED, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S NO DRIVEWAY THERE, BUT THAT THE GATE WOULD BE APPROVED SO THAT THE NEXT TIME THE APPLICANT COMES BACK WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE FORM OF DRIVEWAY AND THE, UM, AND THAT THEY'RE PRESENTING THE CURB CUTS. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? UM, MR. CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT I WOULD ALSO NOT BE INCLINED TO APPROVE WITHOUT A CURB CUT. AND PERHAPS MANY OF THESE QUESTIONS COULD BE SOLVED BY REAPPLYING OR AMENDING THE APPLICANT AMENDING THE APPLICATION TO INCLUDE THE CURB CUT WITH EVERYTHING FOR A FULL PACKAGE. MR. CHAIR, I, I'LL AMEND THE, THE MOTION AND HOPEFULLY THE SECOND WILL AMEND AS WELL TO APPROVE REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING CYCLONE FENCE WITH A CATTLE FENCE FENCE. AND, AND THAT'S ALL. BUT, BUT I, I, I, I DO FEEL THAT IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF TIME TO ENABLE AN ABSTRACT THAT WE'LL HAVE TO HAVE FINAL APPROVALS, BUT FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS MOTION REPLACEMENT OF THE, THE FENCE HAS SEEN WITH A CATTLE FENCE PERIOD, DOES THE SECONDER AGREE? YES. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS A CLARIFY REALLY QUICK, WAS THAT AN A? THAT'S CORRECT. A NAY. THANK YOU FISH. AYE. SINA AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. ABSENT MA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. NAY CERVANTES? YES. FETZER. AYE. AND UNE NAY. MOTION PASSES. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. OKAY, AND WE'LL GO BACK IN ORDER TO ITEM 16. ITEM NUMBER 16, H D R C CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 5 29 ADDRESS, 3 1 3 EAST LOCUST. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT TWO, TWO STORY DUPLEX STRUCTURES ON THE VACANT LOT ADDRESS. THREE 13 EAST LOCUST STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH Q. THE APPLICANT SHOULD INCORPORATE THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INCREASES THE SETBACK OF THE FRONT STRUCTURE TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE ADJACENT TWO-STORY HISTORIC STRUCTURE AS NOTED IN FINDING E AN ACCURATE MEASURED BLOCK SETBACK DIAGRAM IS REQUIRED. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS AN ACCURATE MEASURED STREET ELEVATION OF THE NORTHERN BLOCK OF EAST LOCUST TO PLACE THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IN CONTEXT WITH HISTORIC STRUCTURES ON THE BLOCK FACE FOR FINAL APPROVAL. THREE, THAT THE LARGE DECORATIVE GABLE VERGE BOARDING ON THE REAR STRUCTURE BE REMOVED IS NOTED IN FINDING I FOUR THAT THE DETACHED GARAGES OR PARKING AREAS BE UTILIZED INSTEAD OF ATTACHED GARAGES. AND THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS NOTED IN FINDING M FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT MODIFIES THE PROPOSED WINDOWS TO BE ONE OVER ONE AND SUBMITS WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS THAT ALIGN WITH THE STIPULATIONS AND THE RECOMMENDATION SIX, THAT THE APPLICANT REMOVES THE FO STONE SIDING AND COLUMNS AND PROPOSES A MATERIAL THAT IS MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND MATERIALS FOUND HISTORICALLY IN THE DISTRICT. AS NOTED IN FINDING N SEVEN THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSES A DRIVEWAY WITH OF 10 FEET WITH AN APRON THAT FLARES TO A MAXIMUM OF 12 FEET. AS NOTED IN FINDING Q EIGHT, THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCES THE PROPOSED IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE TO BE INTRODUCED BY THE PROPOSED BUILDINGS AND HARDSCAPING WERE FEASIBLE AND PROPOSES A PEDESTRIAN WALKWAY CONFIGURATION THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AS NOTED IN FINDING Q NINE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A COMPREHENSIVE LANDSCAPING PLAN THAT INCLUDES ALL SETBACKS WITH DIMENSIONS, LOCATIONS OF PRO PROPOSED HARDSCAPING AND LOCATIONS OF PLANTS. THE APPLICANT SHOULD INDICATE ALL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT ON THE SITE PLAN AND 10 THAT THE APPLICANT COMPLIES WITH ZONING SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAINS A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. AND WE HAVE THE APPLICANT WITH US HERE IN PERSON. EDUARDO, DO YOU WANNA COME UP? SURE. GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE. EDUARDO GARCIA, UM, REPRESENTING THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY AND, UH, THE REQUEST FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ONLY. UM, I HAVE REVIEWED STAFF'S COMMENTS AND, UM, AGREE WITH MOST OF THEM FRANKLY, [01:00:01] AND THERE'S MAYBE A COUPLE THINGS HERE THAT, THAT WE COULD ADJUST, BUT OVERALL I, YOU KNOW, I I, UM, I RECOGNIZED THEIR, THEIR COMMITMENT TO, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WITH THAT SPIRIT IN MIND, YOU KNOW, I'VE GONE BACK AND REDESIGNED THIS COMPLETELY. ORIGINALLY IT WAS DESIGNED MORE OF A, A MEDITERRANEAN SPANISH ECLECTIC STYLE OF WHICH THERE ARE A COUPLE OF VERSIONS OF IT SCATTERED THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT I WENT BACK AND TOOK ANOTHER LOOK AND THAT WAS AFTER I MET WITH YOUR, YOUR, UM, ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN REVIEW GROUP. UM, AND SO THAT WAS REALLY HELPFUL. UH, AND IN FACT I APPRECIATED THE, THE, THE COURTESIES THAT, THAT WERE PROVIDED AT THAT TIME. BUT, UM, SO I DID GO BACK AND REDESIGN THIS MORE IN, IN, IN THE SPIRIT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO 98% OF THE HOMES THERE ARE, ARE CRAFTSMAN STYLES. SO, SO THIS PROJECT TOOK THAT, UH, THAT AESTHETIC AND, UH, SO YOU COULD SEE IT IN THE DRAWINGS. UM, IF I MAY, I'D LIKE TO PROVIDE, UM, THE, MY RESPONSES. I MEAN, I, I CAN GO THROUGH THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE PROBLEMATIC, BUT, UH, JUST FOR THE RECORD, YOU CAN HAVE THAT. THANK YOU. UM, OVERALL, UM, AGAIN, I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH, WITH ALL BUT THREE OF THE POINTS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP BY STAFF AND I'M, I'M BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS OR ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS IF YOU'D LIKE. I DO JUST WANNA SAY THAT THIS IS ONLY CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. THE FULL DESIGN AND DETAIL WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, COMING BACK DOWN THE ROAD. OKAY. UH, WOULD YOU COMMENT ON THE THREE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO, UH, REVIEW? CERTAINLY, UM, IF I CAN CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SITE PLAN. UM, THE, IN FACT, YEAH, THAT'S A PERFECT WAY TO START RIGHT THERE. UM, I'M SORRY. YOU, YOU HAD THE OTHER SHEET? YEAH, THAT ONE THERE. THANK YOU. THE SETBACKS, RIGHT. THIS IS AN ODD SPOT BECAUSE, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, OUR, OUR PROPERTY, WHICH IS THE, THE SECOND OVER FROM THE LEFT IS ACTUALLY ZONE C TWO. NOW I RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD, SO IT'S RESIDENTIAL AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THIS BOARD AND, AND THE HISTORIC OFFICE DOESN'T REALLY DEAL WITH ZONING. HOWEVER, THAT IS WHAT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH. SO THOSE ARE THE RULES I HAVE TO PLAY WITH. AND SO THAT'S SETBACK, UM, IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP. SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, I'M ACTUALLY TRYING TO, TO SITUATE THE BUILDING CLOSER TO THE COMMERCIAL SIDE RATHER THAN CLOSER TO THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE. SO AT LEAST THERE IS SOME COMPATIBILITY IN TERMS OF THE SETBACK. YOU COULD SEE THAT ALONG THAT ENTIRE STREET, IT'S VERY RANDOM, FRANKLY, THERE IS NO RHYME OR REASON TO THE SETBACK ALL THE WAY ACROSS 10 FEET, 20 FEET, 27 40, 16, 30. SO THERE REALLY ISN'T A A, A LINE YOU CAN DRAW THAT SAYS EVERYTHING ON THE STREET IS 20 FEET OR 30 FEET OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO IT MAKES IT ARBITRARY TO SAY, OH, WE HAVE TO PUSH IT BACK FURTHER WHEN THE RULE IS SIMPLY THE ZONING. SO WE'RE JUST GONNA STICK TO THE ZONING 'CAUSE THAT'S THE ESTABLISHED RULE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS, IS KIND OF ARBITRARY. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE WANT TO BE DISRESPECTFUL OF THE OTHER STUFF. ON THE CONTRARY, WE'RE DESIGNING THE BUILDING TO BE VERY RESPECTFUL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE ONLY STICKING POINT IS THAT ITEM ON NUMBER ONE, WHERE THEY'RE PROPOSING US TO PUSH IT BACK CLOSER TO THE 27 FEET. SO I'D LIKE TO, TO CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THAT SIMPLY BECAUSE THIS IS A REALLY UNIQUE SPOT IN THAT IT'S ZONED COMMERCIAL. HOWEVER, IT IS A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO WORK WITHIN, YOU KNOW, THE MEANS OF WHAT WE WERE GIVEN. THE OTHER ONE IS, UM, ITEM FOUR. UM, SO JUST AGAIN, ITEM TWO AND THREE ARE ACCEPTABLE TO ME. WE, WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WORKS FORWARD. UM, ITEM FOUR IS THE DETACHED GARAGE THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING BEFORE YOU PREVIOUSLY WAS ANOTHER PROPERTY, UH, PROJECT PROPOSAL ON THIS SAME SITE THAT HAD THE EXACT SAME CONFIGURATION OF THE PARKING WITHIN THE STRUCTURE. AND IT WAS APPROVED BY THIS COMMISSION. SO THIS REQUEST THAT WE NOW PULL APART AND DO A SEPARATE AT ATTACH, UH, DETACHED GARAGE DOESN'T WORK WITH, YOU KNOW, THE PRECEDENT THAT THIS COMMISSION HAS ALREADY SET. AT THE SAME TIME, UH, WE'RE PROVIDING COVERED PARKING FOR THE FRONT RESIDENCE AS WELL AS FOR THE REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE SO EVERYBODY GETS COVERED PARKING. UM, SO I, I DISAGREE WITH THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON THAT. UM, PRIMARILY BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS CASE, WHICH YOU ALL APPROVED, HAD ALREADY GIVEN, UH, THE GREEN LIGHT TO THAT SAME CONFIGURATION. EVERYTHING ELSE IS, IS GENERALLY ACCEPTABLE. I THINK THERE WAS A COMMENT ON, ON NUMBER SIX ABOUT FAUX STONE SIDING, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS JUST SOMETHING I WROTE THAT WAS INCORRECT OR, OR SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT INTERPRETED CORRECTLY. BUT, UM, IT'S IN THAT, IT'S, THE, THE THINKING IS THAT THE, THE BASE OF THE BUILDING AND BACK ON THE ELEVATIONS, UH, IS A STONE VENEER, STONE VENEER ON THE COLUMNS, ON THE PORCH, STONE VENEER, UH, FOR THE SKIRTING, AND THEN ON THE LONG ELEVATION, BREAKING IT DOWN WITH SOME STONE THAT GOES UP TO THE, TO THE SECOND FLOOR, IF I MAY REQUEST THE ELEVATION. [01:05:01] UM, SHEET 12 PLEASE. THERE YOU CAN SEE THE FRONT, UH, THE COLUMNS GO UP TO ABOUT 35 INCHES OF STONE AND THEN WOOD ABOVE IT. VERY TRADITIONAL IN THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE. UH, THE SAME SORT OF OF LANGUAGE, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU SEE THROUGHOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, ON THE SIDE ELEVATION, I, UM, MODULATED THE ENTIRE ELEVATION. SO IT, IT LOOKS LESS, UH, MASSIVE. SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT BREAKS IT DOWN SOME. AND, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S ALSO JUST TO, AGAIN, TO HELP THE NEIGHBORHOOD FEEL LIKE THIS IS IN SCALE AND IN, IN, IN AN EFFORT TO, TO WORK CAREFULLY WITH THEM. IN FACT, UM, I MET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION RECENTLY AND THEY AGREED AND THEY LIKED THAT IDEA. I THINK THEY SENT A LETTER, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT STATES THAT, UH, BUT THEY APPRECIATED THE EFFORT TO TRY TO HELP, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING TO FIT INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I JUST WANTED TO CALL THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION AS WELL, PLEASE. SO THOSE ARE THE MAIN ITEMS. UH, BESIDES EVERYTHING ELSE, I'M, I'M AGAIN ON THE RECORD FOR SAYING I AGREE AND ACCEPT THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AT FINAL, UH, APPROVAL. AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY CONCEPTUAL, SO I REQUEST, UH, CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ON, ON, UH, ON THOSE ITEMS. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? YEAH, I'M GONNA PLAY A VOICEMAIL. MY NAME IS FREDERIKA KUSHNER, AND I'M SPEAKING FOR THE TOBIN HILL COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION. MY ADDRESS IS 4 0 5 EAST MYRTLE STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 2. I'M SPEAKING ABOUT H D R C, ITEM NUMBER 16 3 1 3 EAST LOCUST. YOU HAVE RECEIVED OUR STATEMENT WITH DETAILED COMMENTS, HOWEVER, I'D LIKE TO REITERATE SOME OF OUR CONCERNS. THE PLAN FOR 3 1 3 EAST LOCUST IS GENERALLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE TOBIN HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT WE BELIEVE THAT THE APPLICANT CAN SAVE MONEY AND BILL TRUER TO THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD BY INSTALLING ONE OVER ONE SASH RATHER THAN MULTI PANE WINDOWS BY REMOVING THE BARGE BOARD AND DECORATIVE ELEMENTS FROM THE GABLES OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND USING STONE ON PORCH COLUMNS ONLY. UH, WE ARE ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE SMALL AREA THAT WILL BE PERVIOUS COVER AND THAT THE DRAWINGS, LIKE SOME SPECI SPECIFICATIONS AND DETAIL. UH, WE HOPE THESE CAN BE ADDRESSED IN YOUR DISCUSSION WITH THE APPLICANT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION. THAT'S IT. OKAY. ANY I CAN ADDRESS THOSE? YES, SIR. COMPONENTS. UM, LISTEN, I APPRECIATE THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE US MONEY. THAT'S COOL. UH, AND IT'S CERTAINLY HELPFUL AND, AND IF IT MAKES THIS COMMISSION HAPPIER, I CAN REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF STONE. THAT'S NOT A, A DEAL KILLER FOR ME. I CAN SIMPLIFY THE WINDOWS. AGAIN, NOT A BIG PROBLEM. UM, MY HOPE WAS TO DO SOMETHING IN THE SPIRIT OF THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE, BUT IF YOU ALL FEEL LIKE, HEY, IT'S OVER THE TOP FINE, WE CAN, WE CAN BACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND, AND TRY TO MAKE SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE, YOU KNOW, MARGINAL, UH, THE STONE ITSELF, AGAIN, HAPPY TO REDUCE IT AND, AND LIMIT SOME USE IF YOU ALL FEEL LIKE THAT'S A BETTER MOVE. UM, I FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, HAVING A GOOD BASE TO ME IS ALWAYS AN IMPORTANT PART OF A HOME. AND, AND THAT STONE REFLECTS THAT. IT REFLECTS THE, THE, THE EARTH, RIGHT? AND SO I REALLY, I LIKE THAT WEIGHT THAT IT BRINGS TO A PROJECT. SO, UH, IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S TOO MUCH STONE, AGAIN, I'M HAPPY TO REDUCE IT AND BRING, BRING IT BACK AT FINAL FOR THAT. UM, BUT OVERALL, THE WINDOW CONFIGURATIONS, UH, GENERALLY ARE WITHIN THAT SAME CRAFTSMAN STYLE. UH, THE DETAIL ON THE TOP OF THOSE WINDOWS IS VERY MUCH IN LINE WITH THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE, THE, THE, UH, ARTICULATION OF THE SMALLER BOARDS, SAME THING. AND EVEN THE SIDING, YOU KNOW, THAT GOES FROM STONE TO WOOD SIDING UP TO A, A SHINGLE SIDING ALSO WITHIN THE SAME CHARACTER OF, OF, UH, CRAFTSMAN STYLE. SO I, I, I REALLY DID APPRECIATE MEETING WITH HIM. THEY GAVE ME SOME GREAT INSIGHTS AND, AND AGAIN, IF WE WANNA SIMPLIFY IT, THAT'S FINE BY ME. UH, I WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT FOR FINAL APPROVAL RATHER THAN FOR CONCEPTUAL, THOUGH. THANK YOU. SO, JUST TO REITERATE, UH, YOU'VE GOT SOME CONCERNS ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, NUMBER ONE ABOUT THE SETBACK. NUMBER FOUR, THE GARAGES, AND NUMBER SIX, WHAT THEY CALL FOE STONE. EVERYTHING ELSE YOU, UH, CONCUR WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? I HAVE A QUESTION, MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. EDUARDO, IT WAS GOOD TO SEE YOU. THANK YOU. LIKEWISE. THE, THE, THE STONE, IS IT A FOE OR IS IT A VENEER? NO, IT'S VENEER. IT'S, IT'S A VENEER. OKAY. SO IT'S JUST A WRONG WORD, RIGHT? THE THAT'S RIGHT. I DON'T, I DON'T THINK I WROTE FOE IN MY APPLICATION. YEAH, THAT'S ON ME. SORRY. IT'S VENEER. OKAY. IT'S ALL RIGHT, MR. CHAIR. I FIND THE, THE DESIGN TO BE, UM, VERY PLEASING. IT'S VERY OLD SCHOOL. I, I APPRECIATE THE DRAWING. UM, BUT IN, IN THE AREA, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF MORE MODERN INTERPRETATIONS OF APARTMENTS THAT, THAT REALLY, UH, DON'T HAVE, UH, I, I GUESS THE [01:10:01] HUMILITY TO STEP BACK AND BE A PERIOD PIECE WITHIN, WITHIN THE CONTEXT, RIGHT? NEW CONSTRUCTION. UH, BUT I, I, I, I HESITATE NAS COMMISSION TO, TO HESITATE, UM, UH, UH, REQUESTING OR ADJUSTING THE BALANCE OF THE STONE. IT SEEMS TO ME TO BE MINIMAL ALREADY. BUT IT, IT, IT PROVIDES, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, IT, IT ENHANCES THE, THE IN AND OUT, THE, THE DIMENSIONALITY OF THE, OF THE CONSTRUCTS. SO TO ME, IT'S, IT'S VERY WELL BALANCED. EDUARDO, UNDERNEATH ON THE PAGE THAT YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE A TWO AND A THREE, AND THE PAGES THAT I'M LOOKING AT MM-HMM. THE DETAIL OF THE ARCH IN A THREE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S AN ALTERNATE OR, OR THAT'S FROM THE EARLIER ITERATION THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT. LET'S GO TO THAT DRAWING PLEASE. IT WOULD BE A THREE, UH, YES, THAT ONE THERE. UM, THE, THAT'S THE REAR BUILDING. AND, UM, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO EXPRESS ON THE SIDE WAS THAT SAME CRAFTSMAN, TRUSS, BUT YOU KNOW, I COULD SEE WHERE THAT MIGHT BE READ AS TOO MUCH DETAIL FOR AN ACCESSORY BUILDING. AND I WOULD NOT HESITATE TO REMOVE THAT AND CHANGE THE SIDING TO AGAIN, BREAK UP THE MASS TO GO TO SOME, YOU KNOW, TO A SHINGLE UP ON TOP OR SOMETHING. WELL, TO HELP BREAK THAT DOWN, I THINK. AND PART OF THE REASON WHY, WHY I ASKED FOR THE CLARIFICATION, EDUARDO, IS BECAUSE TO ME THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DETAIL THAT DISAPPEARS, THAT PEOPLE DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO, TO DO. AND I APPRECIATE IT MORE THAN ANYTHING. SO I THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT STAFF, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, THAT, THAT Y'ALL WERE LOOKING AT BEING TOO, UH, DRAMATIC OR, I ACTUALLY DIDN'T REALLY COMMENT ON THE STYLISTIC. OKAY. OKAY. WELL, MR. CHAIR, UH, BEFORE OTHER COMMENTS THAT I, I'D BE IN, UH, UM, SUPPORTIVE OF A MOTION TO ENABLE THIS PROJECT AT CONCEPTUAL. THANK YOU. OTHER COMMISSIONERS? YES, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. UM, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS SITE, HAVING WORKED ON AN INFILL PROJECT, JUST TWO LOTS TO THE, TO THE E EAST OF YOU THERE. AND SO, UM, HAVING WORKED WITH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, I KNOW THEIR, THEIR CONCERNS AND, AND, UH, THEY DO HAVE A VERY CONSTRUCTIVE, UH, OH, SORRY. UM, , SOMEONE'S DELIVERING SOMETHING TO MY DOOR. UM, THEY, THEY DO HAVE A VERY CONSTRUCTIVE PROCESS AND GIVE GREAT FEEDBACK, AND THEY REALLY KNOW THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE CHARACTERISTICS OF IT. AS FAR AS THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE BALANCE OF A STONE, I AM, UM, I'M FINE WITH WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. I THINK THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF, UM, YOU KNOW, CRAFTSMEN, BUNGALOWS ARE VERY MODEST WHERE THE STONE IS ONLY, YOU KNOW, FOCUSED AROUND THE FRONT ENTRY. 'CAUSE THAT WAS THE BIG IMPACT. THAT WAS THE STREET APPEAL. AND THEN THEY JUST GO TO SIDING OR SKIRTING AROUND, UH, THE REST OF THE, THE, THE STRUCTURE. BUT THEN THERE ARE ALSO SOME EXAMPLES, EVEN IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD OF SOME, A LITTLE BIT MORE HIGH STYLE, UM, UH, PROPERTIES THAT HAD PERHAPS A LITTLE BIT MORE AFFLUENCE OR, OR, OR A HIGHER BUDGET. AND THEY USED A GREATER AMOUNT OF STONE. SO THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S, UH, EXAMPLES AND PRECEDENTS FOR THAT. I THINK, UH, I AM ALSO SUPPORTIVE OF THE IDEA OF TUCKING IN THE GARAGE, UH, AS, AS YOU'RE SAYING, RATHER THAN TRYING TO BREAK OUT AND HAVE IT BE YET A THIRD COMPONENT ON THE SITE. UM, BUT I DO HAVE AND SHARE SOME CONCERNS WITH BOTH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE STAFF. ONE IS WITHIN THE PACKAGE THAT WAS GIVEN TO US, THERE'S NOT A REAL DEFINITIVE SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS US THE SETBACKS FOR THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING COMPARED TO THE SETBACK OF THE BUILDING IMMEDIATELY. UH, THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE IMMEDIATELY TO THE EAST OF YOU, AS WELL AS THE ONE THAT WE WORKED ON. AND THERE'S A WHOLE BLOCK AND ANOTHER BLOCK. WHEN WE SUBMITTED FOR THIS PROJECT, WE SHOWED ALL BLOCKS ALONG THAT WAY AND KIND OF GAVE WHAT THE STATISTICAL AVERAGE WAS. AND WHILE THE ZONING IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING YOU CAN HANG YOUR HAT ON, IT'S ALSO SORT OF THE MINIMUM STANDARD, RIGHT? THE, THE GUIDELINES ASK THAT YOU NOT UPSTAGE THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND THAT, THAT YOU, YOU, YOU STEP BACK FROM THEM. SO IF YOU LOOK AT OUR PROPERTY, UM, OUR PROJECT THERE, WE STEPPED BACK SPECIFICALLY, UH, FROM EITHER SIDE OF THAT BECAUSE THERE'S A, ACTUALLY THE STRUCTURE TO THE, IMMEDIATELY TO THE EAST OF THAT HAS A PORCH ON IT. SO WE STEPPED IT BACK ACTUALLY TO PLAY INTO THE WALL OF THAT BUILDING. MM-HMM. . SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU GIVE SERIOUS CONSIDERATION. I KNOW THAT HAS A HUGE IMPACT ON YOUR SITE. 'CAUSE EVERY SQUARE INCH IS, IS VITAL HERE. UM, AND ALONG THOSE LINES, ONE OF MY OTHER CONCERNS IS WHEN I LOOK AT THE PROPOSED GARAGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SITE, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED, AND THIS IS A FUNCTIONAL THING THAT YOU'VE GOTTA WORK OUT. IT'S NOT A, NOT AN AESTHETIC ONE, BUT WHETHER, WHETHER THERE'S REALLY THE TURNING RADIUSES AND IF PEOPLE CAN [01:15:01] GET OUT THAT GARAGE, 'CAUSE THAT, THAT DRIVE IS ONLY 10 FEET WIDE, AND THERE'S MAYBE A COUPLE MORE FEET BEFORE YOU GET TO THE, THE FRONT, UH, TO THE, TO THE GARAGE DOORS. AND SO THERE'S MAYBE 12 OR 15 FEET, AND USUALLY YOU WANT 20 TO TO 30. SO I'M CONCERNED THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT MAY BE UNACHIEVABLE. UM, SO THE, THE OTHER, UM, THERE'S A, A FEW INCONSISTENCIES IN THE SITE PLAN, UH, FOR THE REAR BUILDING. IT SHOWS A PORCH THAT'S, UH, I GUESS FACING TO THE SOUTH. AND IN THE ELEVATIONS, THE, THAT PORCH LOOKS FAIRLY DEEP, BUT IN PLAN IT'S NOT SHOWING UP, OR I CAN'T, I CAN'T REALLY DELINEATE WHERE THAT PORCH IS TAKING PLACE. AND THAT BECOMES, PARDON ME ON WHICH BUILDING? MY APOLOGIES. THE, THE REAR BUILDING. OKAY. THE, YEAH. UM, IF WE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, ELEVATIONS OF THAT STRUCTURE, THERE'S A PRETTY DEEP FOUR SPEED INDICATED THERE. AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A POP OUT SECTION THERE MM-HMM. , BUT THERE'S A, JUST AN INCONSISTENCY WHEN I LOOK AT THAT. AND ALSO A LITTLE BIT OF MYSTERY AS TO WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED FOR THE REST OF THE SITE. THERE'S AN AREA BETWEEN THE GARAGE AND THE REAR BUILDING THAT'S KIND OF UN-DESIGNATED. SO I THINK SOME MORE SPECIFIC INFORMATION, EVEN AT A CONCEPTUAL LEVEL, PARTICULARLY THOSE CRITICAL DIMENSIONS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, I THINK ARE IMPORTANT TO HAVE. THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY ADDRESS THAT UNLESS, OH, GO AHEAD. OH, UM, OKAY. THE, UM, AFTER I MET WITH, WITH THE DESIGN REVIEW, UH, COMMITTEE, THE, UM, GARAGE DID COME UP AND IT WAS ONE OF THOSE COMPONENTS WHERE I DID ACTUALLY PUSH IT IN BASED ON SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. SO, SO WE COULD GET A LITTLE BIT BETTER OF A TURN RADIUS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS VERY, VERY INSIGHTFUL, AND SO I APPRECIATED IT. UM, I AM LIKE ANYONE ELSE ON THAT BLOCK, PHYSICALLY LIMITED BY THE WIDTH OF THE LOT, AND SO RESPECTING SETBACKS TO THE WEST, UM, AND SETBACKS TO THE EAST, THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH REAL ESTATE WE CAN WORK WITH, RIGHT? SO IT IS, UM, NOT INTENDED TO BRING, YOU KNOW, MAJOR TRAILERS AND HUGE, YOU KNOW, F TWO FIFTIES IN PROBABLY, BUT, UM, I THINK AVERAGE CARS CAN MAKE THAT TURN RADIUS WORK. UH, THE POINT OF, UM, OF THE AREA BETWEEN THE BACK BUILDING AND THE FRONT BUILDING, UH, AS WELL AS EVERYTHING ELSE, IT IS INTENDED TO MAXIMIZE THE IMPERVIOUS, UH, OR THE PERVIOUS COVER. AND IN FACT, THE, THE BUILDING ITSELF, THE BUILDING AREAS BETWEEN THE BOTH OF THEM REPRESENT ABOUT 46% OF THE SITE. AND OPEN SPACE REPRESENTS ABOUT 54% BASED ON MY CALCULATION. SO IT, IT IS STILL VERY RESPECTFUL OF, OF OPEN SPACE, WHICH ALSO IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR GARDEN SPACE AND, UM, DEEP DECOMPOSED GRANITE ON THE DRIVEWAY WITH CONCRETE CURBS ONLY. SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO THIS IN A VERY SENSITIVE WAY, AND THAT WAS WHAT WE INTENDED TO, TO REFLECT ON THAT, UH, ON THAT DRAWING. OKAY. COMMISSIONER FISH. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I HAVE, UH, I, I THINK THE ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE SETBACK IS THE BIGGEST AREA OF CONCERN, AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT WAYS TO THINK ABOUT THIS. SO GENERALLY THE NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT STEP, STEP IN FRONT OF THE HISTORIC ADJACENT STRUCTURE, SHOULDN'T OVERWHELM IT. UM, YOU'RE SHOWING A PRETTY GENEROUS PORCH WITH STEPS ON THE SITE PLAN. THERE'S A 20 FOOT SETBACK, I THINK IT'S SHOWN TO THE FRONT OF THE STEPS ON ONE OF THE DRAWINGS. UM, CORRECT. IT'S NOT ABOUT ESTABLISHING, UM, A VERY REGULAR AND SET LINE ACROSS THE LOT AS TO WHAT AN APPROPRIATE SETBACK SHOULD BE BASED ON THE GUIDELINES, BUT THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE NEAREST HISTORIC STRUCTURES. SO IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO ME IF I CAN REALLY SEE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, UH, THREE 17, THE, THE PROJECT TO THE RIGHT HERE, THE HISTORIC PROPERTY TO THE RIGHT, AND THREE 13, I GUESS THAT IS, I MIGHT BE MIXING UP THE ADDRESSES, UH, BUT THE RELATIONSHIP IMMEDIATELY TO THE RIGHT, THERE'S THE ONE I'M MOST CONCERNED ABOUT WITH THE SETBACK. UM, AND I DON'T THINK THAT MEANS THAT THE ELEVATION HAS TO JUST NECESSARILY BE BEYOND THE 20, 27 FEET, BUT IT HAS TO, TO RELATE TO IT IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T OBSCURE IT. SO, A THREE D VIEW, A PERSPECTIVE OR SOMETHING THAT SHOWS HOW THIS HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT HISTORIC THING, THE, THE HISTORIC PROPERTY, AND THAT IT DOESN'T OVERWHELM. IT IS SOMETHING THAT I'D, I'D LOOK FOR. ONE BENEFIT YOU HAVE GOING FOR YOU RIGHT NOW IS THAT'S THE DRIVEWAY SIDE. SO THE MASS OF THE HOUSE IS PULLED AWAY. THERE'S CERTAINLY A LOT MORE DISTANCE, YOU KNOW, FROM WHEN YOU LOOK LEFT FROM THE ADJACENT STRUCTURES. UH, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE BETTER DOCUMENTED IN THE SITE PLAN AND KIND OF DEMONSTRATE OR DEMONSTRATE A RATIONALE OR JUSTIFICATION THAT THE SETBACK THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR DOES NOT IMPACT THAT HISTORIC. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT. I I HAVE TO, UM, ASK THOUGH THAT WE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT SETBACK, WE LOOK NOT ONLY AT THE RESIDENTIAL, YOU KNOW, AND PUT BLINDERS TO THE LEFT AND WEST SIDE OF THE SITE AND BLOCK, RIGHT? BECAUSE TO THE WEST IS A 10 FOOT SETBACK, THAT IS A COMMERCIAL [01:20:01] BUILDING. SO, YOU KNOW, I CAN'T PRETEND THAT DOESN'T EXIST. AND SO AS WE PUT THIS BUILDING AND WE STARTED PLACING IT, YOU REALIZE THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME MOVEMENT I CAN, I CAN PUSH IT BACK IF, IF, IF NEED BE, AND IT'S NOT GONNA, THE ONLY THING THAT'S GONNA SUFFER WILL BE THE SPACE BETWEEN THE FRONT AND THE REAR BUILDING, RIGHT? YEAH. SO RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE PROPOSING THAT YOUR MAIN, YOUR FRONT ELEVATION, THAT FRONT PORCH SITS SEVEN FEET PROUD OF THE ADJACENT HISTORIC STRUCTURE. THE DRAWING DOESN'T APPEAR THAT IT APPEARS THAT IT'S CLOSE, BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING A 20 FOOT SETBACK AND THE ADJACENT ONE IS 27, IS THAT CORRECT? THE, THE SETBACK ON THE SITE PLAN SUPERSEDES, AND, UM, WE COULD GO TO THE SITE PLAN AND TAKE A LOOK, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH REGARD TO, UM, TO WHERE IT IS IN RELATION TO THE TWO ADJACENT BUILDINGS, THE HISTORIC HOME, BUT ALSO THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING. THE ONE THAT IT'S NEARER TO IS THE ONE THAT'S WAY MORE IMPORTANT, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONE THAT IT'S GONNA IMPACT THEN IT'D BE THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING. NO, THE, THE PHYSICAL. IT'S GONNA IMPACT THE PROPERTY TO THE RIGHT ON THAT PLAN. AND I, I THINK I JOTTED DOWN THE ADDRESS THAT'S 3 17 3 I, I, UM, I, I'M JUST POINTING OUT THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE MASS OF THIS AND THAT IS, IS WHERE THE GUIDELINES ARE COMING IN AND WHERE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS REFERRING TO. SO SOME BLOCKS WE HAVE REALLY IRREGULAR SETBACKS, AND WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT AN INFILL PROPERTY WHERE ONE, ONE HISTORIC STRUCTURE TO THE RIGHT IS BACK 30 FEET AND THE OTHER ONE IS BACK 15 FEET. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S SOME ROOM TO MAKE THIS WORK. THERE'S A DEMONSTRATION THAT THE NEW CONSTRUCTION DOESN'T OVERWHELM THE HISTORIC AND AGREED. IT'S, IT IS A HUGE VARIETY OF SETBACKS ALONG THAT BLOCK. THERE IS NO RHYME OR REASON, THERE IS NO STANDARD BY WHICH EVERYBODY WORKED. AND SO THERE IS SOMEWHAT OF AN ARBITRARY INTERPRETATION. AND, AND NOW DO WE DO THAT MATHEMATICALLY AND, AND TAKE THE LAW OF AVERAGES? WELL, IF YOU JUST READ THE GUIDELINES AND APPLY THE GUIDELINES, IT SAYS THE FACE OF YOUR CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE BEYOND THAT OF THE ADJACENT HISTORIC STRUCTURE. SO THAT WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE GREATER THAN 27 FEET. WELL, UH, WITH THAT IN MIND, LOOKING AT OUR SITE PLAN AGAIN, WE HAVE THE BEGINNING OF THE STEPS AT 20. SO WE'RE ACTUALLY AT ABOUT 25 FEET. WE'RE NOT THAT FAR OFF, SO GOTCHA. THAT'S THE DRAWING WE NEED TO SEE. OH, YOU KNOW, LIKE, BASICALLY, SO THE, THE FRONT FACE OF THE PORCH, THE FACE OF THE WALLS IS X AMOUNT OF FEET RELATIVE FROM THE CURB RELATIVE TO THE ADJACENT STRUCTURE. YEAH. SO ON SHEET 11, YOU ARE SAYING THAT THREE 17 LOCUST IS, HAS A 27 FOOT SETBACK. SO FROM, FROM, WHERE IS THAT MEASURED? ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY FROM, UH, THE INSIDE OF THE, UH, WHAT I AM PERCEIVING AS THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS THE, THE NORTHERN EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK. AND WHAT DOES THAT GO TO ON THE FACE? DOES THAT GO TO THE, THE FRONT FACE ABOVE THE PORCH TO THE FACE OF THE PORCH OF THEIR PORCH? YES, SIR. FACE OF THE PORCH. SO THAT'S THE, AND BY THE WAY, I DIDN'T WANT TO, AND I'M SURE YOU GUYS RUN INTO THIS ISSUE ALL THE TIME, BUT IT'S NOT MY PLACE TO, TO TRESPASS, RIGHT. AND START MEASURING OTHER PEOPLE'S HOMES. SO WE DID THE BEST WE CAN VISUALLY, UH, OUT ON THE SITE AS WELL AS, UH, THROUGH TECHNOLOGY. WELL, I MEAN, IT CAN BE WALKED JUST PARALLEL ON YOUR, YOUR PARCEL. YEAH. RIGHT, RIGHT. YOU CAN GET, YOU CAN GET PRETTY CLOSE. YEAH. WE THEN I THINK THAT THESE ARE PRETTY CLOSE. SO IF YOU ARE, ARE, YOUR MEASUREMENTS ARE BASED OFF THE SAME THING FROM THE SIDEWALK, WHICH IS THE ASSUMED PROPERTY LINE TO THE FACE OF THE PORCH. HOW MANY FEET FORWARD IS THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PROPOSED? THE FACE OF THE FRONT PORCH, I THINK WE'RE ABOUT TWO FEET INDIFFERENCE BY THE TIME IT'S ALL SAID AND DONE. BECAUSE AGAIN, I I'M, I'M GOING OFF OF THE FACE OF THEIR PORCH, AND MINE HAS THE, THE FOUR, THE FIVE STEPS THAT START AT 20 AND GO UP, YOU KNOW, A FOOT EACH, SO 25 FEET THERE. NOW, ANOTHER POSSIBILITY WOULD BE JUST TO REDUCE THAT, YOU KNOW, NICE DEEP 10 FOOT FRONT PORCH THAT, THAT FACES SOUTH, RIGHT? WHICH PROVIDES THE, THE COMFORT FOR THOSE RESIDENTS. YOU KNOW, A A DEEP PORCH FACING SOUTH TO ME, IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE, THE JOYS OF A CRAFTSMAN HOGUE. BUT IF, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THIS MAKES YOU ALL MORE COMFORTABLE, WE COULD REDUCE THAT TO EIGHT FEET. IF, IF, UH, MR. CHAIR, IF I MIGHT, UH, ADD TO THE COMMENTS THAT COMMISSIONER FISH IS HAVING COMMISSIONER FISH, THAT THE THING THAT REALLY STANDS OUT TO ME, UH, WAS LOOKING AT THE PICTURE OF THE SITE, IF STAFF COULD GO TO THE SITE, UM, IS THAT THERE'S A, UM, KIND OF AN INVISIBLE ARC THAT REALLY DEFINES THE PROPERTY LINE. SO IF YOU LOOK AT IT, PROPERTY TO PROPERTY COMPARED TO EACH OTHER, THEN THEY'RE INDIVIDUAL HOUSES AND THEY SHARE NO RELATIONSHIP TO EACH OTHER. SO WITH THE IRREGULARITY, IF YOU TOOK AN ARC, LIKE A FRENCH CURVE, RIGHT, AND LAID IT ON THERE, IT, IT CREATES A SEPARATE ORDER. SO I, I CAN'T [01:25:01] HELP, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I'M AGREEING WITH, UH, EDUARDO HERE, BUT IT, IT JUST SEEMS THAT THE, THE MAMMOTH THERE IS THAT BUILDING ON THE CORNER. SO IN ORDER TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THAT BUILDING AND THE BUILDING TO THE EAST OF THE EMPTY LOT, YOU, YOU, YOU ALMOST CAN'T DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE. YOU ALMOST HAVE TO DRAW AN ARC BECAUSE OF THE OTHER PROPERTIES. SO IT SEEMS THAT, THAT THE ADJUSTMENT, IF IT, IF IT'S GONNA SEEM NATURAL AND FLOWING, LIKE AS IF YOU'RE A PEDESTRIAN, WALKING DOWN IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IS, IS NOT JAGGED, BUT SMOOTH, THAT IT ALMOST ASKS YOU TO FOLLOW AN ARC, BECAUSE OTHERWISE THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION IS GONNA BE PUSHED IN, IN A WAY, GUIDELINE WISE, YES, BUT ARBITRARILY BECAUSE OF THE ARBITRARINESS OF THE, OF THE DIMENSIONS FROM SIGHT. SO THE, THAT, THE, THE EXPLANATION OF THE STAIRCASE, MEANING THAT IT'S MOVING BACK THIS WAY AND THAT THE LINE IS NOT THIS KIND OF A LINE, BUT IT'S THIS KIND OF A LINE TO ME IS VERY SENSITIVE. AND, UH, I'M, I'M NOT NECESSARILY TRYING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT IN SUPPORT OF, UH, UH, OF, OF WHAT EDUARDO IS SAYING, MORE JUST LOOKING AT IT GRAPHICALLY LOOKING AT THE SITE. AND PERHAPS THE GUIDELINE DOESN'T ADDRESS THE FREE FLOWING NATURE OF THE ARC THAT IS INHERENT IN THAT, IN THE DIMENSIONALITY OF IT ALL. SO I, I THINK IT WORKS THE WAY THAT IT'S PROPOSED, PROVIDED THAT IT'S WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THAT BLACK BOX THAT'S SHOWN ON THE SCREEN. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I, MR. CHAIR, CAN WE LET ALL COMMISSIONERS SPEAK ONE TIME? FIRST? PARDON? I'M SORRY, BEFORE WE GO INTO SECOND ROUNDS OF DISCUSSION YES, MA'AM. 'CAUSE ME HERE, COMMISSIONER SINE HAS BEEN WANTING TO SPEAK FOR A WHILE, AND I APPRECIATE THAT, MR. CHAIR. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT MY COMMENTS ARE IN THE CONTEXT OF COMMISSIONER FISHER'S COMMENTS. SO I'M NOT SURE THAT COMMISSIONER FISH HAS DONE YET. I JUST, IT WOULD BE ALIEN TO BRING IT UP AT ANOTHER TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SAVINO. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. UM, I DO WANT TO SAY THAT I AGREE VERY MUCH WITH MY, UH, FELLOW COMMISSIONER, UH, FISH AS WELL AS CARPENTER REGARDING THE SITE PLAN AND THE LARGER MOVES ON THIS PROJECT. AT THE HIGHER, YOU KNOW, UH, LARGER SCALE, WITHOUT A FULLY DIMENSION SITE PLAN, IT'S REALLY HARD TO DISCUSS DETAILS ABOUT WHERE THE SETBACKS ARE AND THE IMPACT OF TURNING CAR, RADIO RADIUS, AND THOSE OTHER ELEMENTS. UM, I DO AGREE THAT THE SETBACK IS REALLY, IS, IS REALLY HUGE. AND, UM, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE BACK AND RELATABLE TO THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES. I BELIEVE THE GUIDELINES DO SAY THAT COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES ARE IN A SEPARATE CATEGORY. THAT'S A DIFFERENT, UH, BLOCK FACE. IT'S A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT. I THINK FOCUSING ON THE, HOW YOU'RE GOING TO RELATE THE FRONT OF YOUR HOUSES TO THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IS KEY. IT REALLY IS. UM, MY OBSERVATION ALSO IS THAT THIS AREA IS A VERY OR MODERATELY HIGH DENSITY. YOU HAVE LOTS OF DUPLEXES, LOTS OF MULTIFAMILY AND HISTORIC HOUSES THAT ARE, THAT LOOK LIKE BIG HOUSES. IT DOESN'T HAVE THE ROW HOUSE LOOK, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING. UM, I, MY MY INTERPRETATION OF THE, THE GUIDELINES AS IT RELATES TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FILLED WITH MULTIFAMILY SET INTO VERY DISCREET LARGE HOUSES, IS THAT THE ROW HOUSE IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE, UM, OFFERING IN THIS CONTEXT. THAT ROW HOUSE LOOK, A LOOK ALONG WITH YOUR FRONT SETBACK CHALLENGE. THAT MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY MAKING THE TWO ENTRANCES, THE TWO UNITS ON THE FRONT, HAVE A MORE UNIFIED LOOK AS A MAIN HOUSE, BUT MAYBE MAKING PART OF IT DOMINANT. THE OTHER SUBORDINATE MIGHT GIVE YOU SOME OPPORTUNITIES TO, UM, MODIFY THAT SETBACK. THAT IS SUCH A CHALLENGE. AND AGAIN, A SITE PLAN WOULD CERTAINLY HELP WITH FULLY DIMENSION AREAS, BUILT AREAS, PORCH AREAS, AND OTHER SITE FEATURES. THANK YES. COMMISSIONER GROUP. YES. THANK YOU. UM, I WANTED TO SEE IF THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M LIKE, I'M WEIGHING, AND I THINK I FOLLOWED WITH COMMISSIONER FISH DISCUSSION WITH, UH, MR. GARCIA. THERE WOULD BE A POSSIBILITY TO BE ABLE TO ALIGN TO THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR, [01:30:01] WHICH, UM, CONSIDERING YES, THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, BUT NOT TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, SETBACK OF THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, BUT JUST HOW YOU WOULD LIKE, KIND OF DRIVE INTO THAT STREET FROM BOTH SIDES. I THINK I WOULD BE, UM, I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH ALIGNING WITH THE, THE PROPERTY TO THE RIGHT. UM, NOW I DO ALSO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A HARD TURN ON THAT GARAGE, BUT, UM, CONCEPTUALLY I THINK WE CAN ACCEPT THAT THE GARAGE IS ATTACHED TO THE HOME. SO I THINK A LOT OF THESE, UM, WE FIND A LOT OF CONCEPTUAL PROJECTS. I GUESS YOU'LL HEAR ALSO JUST TO SEE IF THAT CONCEPT OF TWO PROPERTIES BACK GARAGE SIDE, GARAGE, AND THEN IF WE'RE MOVING ONE FOOT OR TWO FOOT FROM A FRONT PORCH, OR I THINK ON, EVEN ON YOUR GARAGE, I THINK YOU GOT EXTRA SPACE TO EVEN REMOVE A COUPLE OF FEET FROM THAT WAY TO MAKE A BIGGER SIDE YARD. I THINK THERE'S LOTS OF ROOM TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE FOR THAT SETBACK. SO MAYBE THAT STIPULATION COULD STAY THERE AND, AND I THINK YOUR PROJECT WILL STILL BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD. AND THEN WOULD, I MEAN, I THINK A LOT OF THE OTHER STIPULATIONS ARE ALSO SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED AT FINAL, BUT THIS WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR ME TO SUPPORT A CONCEPTUAL. OKAY. WELL, I APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR FEEDBACK, BOTH OF YOURS. UH, I THINK IT'S, IT'S GREAT TO BE ABLE TO GET NOT ONLY IN FRONT OF YOU TO, TO GET SOME HONEST REACTION TO CREATIVE WORK, 'CAUSE THAT'S ALWAYS HELPFUL, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY IS, YOU KNOW, TO DIVE IN A LITTLE DEEPER ON IT AND UNDERSTANDING, AS YOU ALL DO THAT, THIS IS SIMPLY A PROCESS WHEREBY, YOU KNOW, THE CONCEPT IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO, TO GET A GRIP ON AT THIS POINT. AND AS WE WORK THROUGH THESE DETAILS, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WHERE WE'RE AT 20 AND, AND YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO BE AT 22 FROM THE, FOR THE SETBACK IN ORDER FOR THIS TO, TO BE MORE IN, UH, IN LINE WITH THE NEIGHBOR, THEN THAT'S FINE. WE CAN MAKE THAT CHANGE, YOU KNOW, AND MAKE THAT AS A, AS A STIPULATION MOVING FORWARD. UM, AS FAR AS THE, THE HIERARCHY AND TRYING TO, UM, TO DISGUISE A DUPLEX INSIDE OF A LARGE HOME, UH, I REALLY DO FEEL LIKE, UH, LIKE THAT IS IN FACT ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS THAT I SEE IN OUR HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS. AND, AND AS SOME OF YOU MAY KNOW, I'VE BEEN ON YOUR SIDE OF THE, OF THE DEUS, RIGHT? I'VE BEEN A COMMISSIONER HERE, AND SO I, I RESPECT THIS GREATLY. BUT THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU FIND OLD HOMES THAT WERE BIG AND THEN THEY GET CHOPPED UP INTO MULTIPLE APARTMENTS, AND THIS IS A, A PROJECT THAT'S GROUND UP THAT'S TRYING TO REFLECT THAT WHAT IT IS FROM THE GET-GO. NOW, MAYBE I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR COMMENT, UM, COMMISSIONER, BUT I THINK THAT THE, THE BALANCE OF THE PROJECT IS IN INTENTIONAL, SIMPLY BECAUSE WE WANT IT TO REFLECT THAT THERE IS A DUPLEX COMPONENT. BUT I, I MEAN, AGAIN, I, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S, UH, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A DEAL BREAKER. I THINK THAT WAS SAID IN CONTEXT WITH THE SETBACK, RIGHT? AND SO YOUR, YOUR NOTION OF PUSHING ONE BACK OR ANOTHER ONE BACK. DID I, DID I MISUNDERSTAND YOUR, YOUR COMMENT, COMMISSIONER? NO, MR. GARCIA, IT, YOU'VE GOT IT PART, RIGHT, BUT I DO THINK THAT A LOT OF, UM, A LOT OF THE LARGE HOUSES THAT ARE HISTORIC WERE BUILT AS BOARDING HOUSES. MM-HMM. , THEY WERE BUILT THAT WAY. AND, UM, YES, THE, THE OPPORTUNITY IS IN THE, UM, THE DIFFERENCE, THE DIFFERENCES RATHER THAN THE SAMENESS. AND AGAIN, IF YOU GO JUST TO STRICTLY A TYPOLOGY APPROACH, UM, THERE ARE NO TOWNHOUSES IN TOBIN HILL, RIGHT? YES. UH, THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. UM, I WOULD AGREE WITH WHAT HAS BEEN STATED TODAY THAT THE SETBACK, I THINK IS, IS IMPORTANT. AND, UH, GETTING IT BACK TO AT LEAST ALIGNING WITH THE ADJACENT HISTORIC RESIDENCE, UH, WOULD BE IMPORTANT. UM, AS WE DISCUSSED IN THE D R C I WAS A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF, UH, PERVIOUS VERSUS IMPERVIOUS COVER, AND YOU'VE ADDRESSED THAT WITH YOUR PERCENTAGES. UH, IF YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, CONFIRM THAT, UM, IN YOUR ACTUAL CALCULATIONS, UH, THE STONE WORK, I THINK IS, YOU'VE HEARD COMMENTS BACK AND FORTH, AND, UH, THE SAME WITH THE, THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE AND THE WINDOWS AND THE, THE DETAILING. I THINK YOU'VE HEARD CITIZEN COMMENTS AND COMMISSIONER COMMENTS, AND I THINK NOW IT'S UP TO YOU TO, TO TAKE THOSE BACK TO YOUR CLIENT AND COME BACK TO US WITH SOMETHING. IF WE APPROVE CONCEPTUAL, COME BACK TO US WITH SOMETHING THAT, THAT, UH, EITHER, UH, FURTHER SUPPORTS YOUR DESIGN OR MODIFIES IT BASED ON COMMENTS YOU'VE HEARD TODAY. THAT'S FAIR. UM, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. IF THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTIONS, I CAN MAKE A MOTION. YES, SIR. UM, JUST A QUICK FOLLOW UP [01:35:01] BEFORE I MAKE THIS MOTION. UM, IN CONCEPTUAL REVIEWS, I THINK THE SITE PLAN AND THE SETBACKS ARE ONE OF THE BIGGEST PIECE TO, TO UNDERSTAND, AND THAT PIECE OF IT IS WHERE I THINK YOU REALLY WANT SOME CLARITY. MM-HMM. , I THINK YOU GOT SOME CLARITY FROM, FROM THE BOARD HERE. UM, SO MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STIPULATIONS ONE THROUGH THREE AND FIVE 10. I'LL SECOND MR. CHAIR, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? CAN YOU PUT THOSE ON THE SCREEN STAFF TO BE CLEAR? STAFF I WAS REMOVING STIPULATION FOR ABOUT THE GARAGE ACCESS. ALL RIGHT. UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE, GIBBS. AYE. REPEAT THAT ONE MORE TIME. AYE. LOUD AND CLEAR FISH A SINO AYE. VELASQUEZ AYE. ABSENT. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. ANTE? YES, BUT AYE. AND THE AYE MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND, UM, AS ALWAYS, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AS YOU DEVELOP THE PLANS FURTHER, JUST REACH OUT TO STAFF. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 17, H D R C CASE 2021 DASH 5 3 7 3 12 WEST AGARITA. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH THE EXISTING REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND CONSTRUCT A TWO-STORY GARAGE LOCATED AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. REGARDING ITEM ONE, SORRY, STAFF, WE DON'T HAVE THAT CASE IN OUR PACKAGE. JUST, WHERE AM I MISSING IT? I DUNNO. NUMBER 17. THREE 12 WEST AGARITA. I DON'T HAVE IT IN MY FILE EITHER. LETTERS CASE, I HAVE LETTERS IN THE LETTER FILE. NO CASE IN THE CASE FILE. HMM. MINE HAS IT. I BELIEVE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE IT AS WELL. IT, IT MIGHT HAVE JUST STOPPED COPYING OVER AT SOME POINT. DO YOU HAVE THE CASES AFTERWARDS? IS 17 THE ONLY ONE YOU'RE MISSING? OKAY. IS THE THUMB DRIVE. RACHEL HAD THE THUMB DRIVE AND SHE LEFT THE ROOM. SO WE'LL TRY TO GET A, A PLAN B GOING. YOU CAN CONTINUE. THANKS. REGARDING ITEM ONE, DEMOLITION OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND, RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF REQUEST ITEM ONE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH C AND ONE C. IF THE H D R C FINDS THAT THERE IS UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP OR FAILING THAT FINDS A LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE HAS OCCURRED AND APPROVES THE REQUESTED DEMOLITION STAFF MAKES THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATION REGARDING THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. UM, AT THIS TIME, STAFF DOES NOT RECON RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE, THE, UH, PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BASED ON FINDING TWO C. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCES THE PROPOSED FOOTPRINT AND OVERALL MASSING TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS FULLY WOOD GARAGE DOORS OR DOORS WITH A DESIGN THAT MIX WOOD CONSTRUCTION AS NOTED IN THEIR PLANS AND FEATURES A SMOOTH FINISH WITHOUT A FAUX WOOD GRAIN FEATURE OR TEXTURE. FINAL GARAGE DOOR SPECIFICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A C O A THAT THE PROPOSED WINDOWS MAKE THE STANDARD WINDOW STIPULATIONS NOTED IN THE ABOVE REFERENCES. FINAL WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A C O A THAT ANY SHUTTERS INCLUDED BY BE FUNCTIONAL AND INSTALLED WITH A APPROPRIATE HARDWARE. AND THERE ARE, UM, SEVERAL LETTERS IN SUPPORT, UM, OF, I'M SORRY, LETTERS? YES. IN SUPPORT, UM, IN YOUR, UH, FOLDER THERE. UM, AND THEN THE, UH, APPLICANT [01:40:01] ALAN NEFF IS HERE, UM, IN PERSON. AND, UM, THE APPLICANT IS, UM, IN AGREEANCE TO THE STIPULATIONS REGARDING THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. UM, AND WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE, UM, OVERALL FOOTPRINT IN MASSING AND THE DEMOLITION OF THE, UM, ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. YES, SIR. MR. NEFF, WOULD YOU COME TO THE PODIUM? YES. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS ALAN NEFF. MY COMPANY IS 36 SQUARE. I'M THE ARCHITECT FOR MY CLIENTS. UM, SO MY CLIENTS HAVE LIVED IN THIS HOME FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS. UH, THEY HAVE TWO CHILDREN, NINE AND THEY 13. UH, THEY PLAN TO STAY IN THIS HOME FOR MANY YEARS. SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS PLANNING OUT THE LONGEVITY OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS, THIS PROPERTY FOR MANY YEARS. UH, THEY ALSO HAVE ELDERLY PARENTS THAT LIVE IN DALLAS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO MOVE DOWN HERE AND MOVE INTO THE ACCESSORY DWELLING THAT WE'RE PLANNING TO BUILD. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS ON THE AGENDA AT THE LAST MEETING AND I RECEIVED A NOTICE THAT WE HAD, UH, MONTE VISTA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE WAS NOT IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT. AND THAT DIFFERED FROM THE DISCUSSIONS THAT I HAD HAD WITH THEM OVER SIX MONTHS. UH, AS WELL, I SAW THAT RECOMMENDATIONS OF DENIAL FOR MULTIPLE ITEMS FROM STAFF. SO I ASKED THAT WE POSTPONE, UH, UNTIL TODAY SO THAT I COULD MEET WITH COMMUNITY. I ASKED FOR THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE TO COME OUT AND MEET WITH US AS WELL. UH, THANK YOU, UH, CHAIRMAN FETZER AND COMMISSIONER MAZUA FOR COMING OUT, I THINK THE DAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING. THAT WAS NICE OF YOU. UM, AND SO I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CONFUSION ABOUT THIS PROPERTY AND THE SPECIFICS OF THIS EXISTING GARAGE AND ACCESSORY DWELLING THAT IS ATTACHED TO IT OR INCLUDED WITHIN IT. UM, SO SINCE THEN WE'VE TALKED WITH THE NEIGHBORS. WE HAVE MET WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE AT MONTE VISTA AND GAINED THEIR FULL SUPPORT OF BOTH DEMOLITION AND THE NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT'S PLANNED. UM, THE NEIGHBORS INCLUDE BOTH IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT NEIGHBORS AS WELL AS ONE OTHER, UM, THAT'S WITHIN THE SAME BLOCK AND I'M, I DON'T REMEMBER THE ADDRESS. UM, SO THIS IS THE EXISTING GARAGE AT THE REAR OF THE STRUCTURE. UH, THE MAIN HOUSE IS A VERY SIMPLE TWO STORY, UH, BASICALLY A BOX WITH A PEDIMENT AND A SIDE GABLE. UH, IT MATCHES ABOUT HALF THE MAIN HOUSES ON THAT BLOCK ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET. IT'S ABOUT 50 50 WHERE THERE'S TWO STORIES AND THEN ONE STORIES. SO IN THE CENTER YOU CAN SEE OUR THREE 12 WEST AGARITA. UH, NEXT TO IT IS A VERY SIMILAR HOUSE. THAT IS ALSO TWO STORY, BUT TO THE RIGHT IS A ONE STORY. UH, THIS BLOCK PREDOMINANTLY WAS BUILT AROUND 1950, UM, EXCEPT FOR MAYBE SOME OF THE VERY LARGE HOMES ON THE CORNERS AT THE, UH, CORNER OF BELKNAP. SO YOU CAN ALSO SEE WITHIN THIS PHOTO THAT THERE IS A CHANGE IN GRADE GOING DOWNWARD TO THE WEST. UM, AND THAT'S EITHER EVEN FURTHER ACCENTUATED WHEN YOU GET TO THE BACKYARD OF THIS PROPERTY. AND I'LL SHOW YOU THAT A LITTLE BIT LATER. UM, COULD YOU SHOW THAT REAR GARAGE AGAIN PLEASE? UM, SO THE GARAGE AS IT IS TODAY IS SIMPLY NOT USABLE BY MY CLIENTS, AND THAT'S WHY THEY HIRED ME TO HELP THEM THROUGH THIS PROCESS. UM, YOU KNOW, IT IS BUILT NEAR OR MAYBE AT THE SAME TIME AS THE MAIN HOUSE. IT'S NOT REALLY CLEAR ON MAPS, BUT IT'S WITHIN A COUPLE YEARS, RIGHT AROUND 1951 OR SO. UM, BUT THERE'S NOTHING DISTINGUISHING ABOUT IT. IT DOESN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT OUT OF MONTE VISTA PROPERTIES. YOU KNOW, MANY OTHER HOMES ARE QUITE BEAUTIFUL. UH, EVEN THE VERY SIMPLY DETAILED HOME THAT IS THE MAIN HOUSE, UM, IS WELL PRESERVED AND BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT'S NOT FLOURISHING WITH EMBELLISHMENTS. IT'S QUITE SIMPLE. BUT THIS ONE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE SIMPLEST OF EMBELLISHMENT THAT THE MAIN HOUSE HAS. UH, IT HAS SOME SLIDING BARN DOOR GARAGES THAT, UH, YOU CAN ONLY OPERATE THE LEFT SIDE. THE RIGHT DOESN'T WORK. YOU CAN'T OPEN THEM BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. UM, SO THEY FIND THEY, THEY JUST HAVE NOT PARKED THEIR CAR IN THE GARAGE IN 10 YEARS. UM, AS WELL, THE ACCESSORY DWELLING IS BASICALLY TO THE LEFT. SO THAT SINGLE WINDOW. AND THEN WHEN YOU GO AROUND THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THERE'S A DOOR, UH, THAT ENTERS, UH, WITH ANOTHER WINDOW IN THE BATHROOM. UM, VERY SIMPLE. IT'S JUST ONE SMALL ROOM THAT'S MAYBE [01:45:01] 10 BY 11 AND THEN A SMALL BATHROOM. UH, THERE'S NO KITCHEN. THEY'VE HAD FAMILY THAT CAME AND LIVED, I THINK IT WAS A COUSIN LIVED THERE FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF OR TWO YEARS. AND THEY SAID THEY DIDN'T KNOW HOW HE LIVED THERE BECAUSE HE JUST ATE OUT EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. UH, IT'S NOT REALLY FUNCTIONAL TO LIVE IN BECAUSE THERE'S NO KITCHEN. IT'S VERY SMALL, VERY DANK. UM, OTHER ISSUES WITH THIS PROPERTY ARE THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT IN THIS PHOTO, BUT THE ALLEY SETS VARYING FROM ABOUT A FOOT AND A HALF TO TWO AND A HALF FEET HIGHER THAN THE FINISHED FLOOR OF THIS EXISTING GARAGE. SO WHEN IT RAINS, UH, THE WATER IS GOING DOWNHILL TO THE WEST. IT ENTERS INTO THIS PROPERTY AND FLOODS THAT GARAGE, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR. SO AGAIN, THAT HAS CAUSED A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, JUST DAMAGE TO THE STRUCTURE. UM, STAFF REPORT ONLY MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, ONE WINDOW SILL AND ONE LITTLE TOUCH OF TERMITE DAMAGE, BUT THIS STRUCTURE HAS SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE THAT WOULD REQUIRE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF REPAIR. UM, SO MOISTURE DAMAGE, THERE IS TERMITE DAMAGE IN MULTIPLE PLACES OF THE STRUCTURE. UM, IT'S BASICALLY NOT FUNCTIONAL FOR MY CLIENTS. THEY JUST STORE THINGS IN IT RIGHT NOW AND THEY WANNA MOVE BEYOND THAT. SO I STUDIED WITH THEM MULTIPLE OPTIONS ON HOW TO APPROACH THIS PROJECT. COULD WE FIND A WAY TO REUSE THIS STRUCTURE AND ADD ONTO IT VERTICALLY? WELL, WE HAVE THE FINISHED FLOOR ISSUE AND THE FLOODING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO SOMEHOW SOLVE. WE WOULD HAVE TO FIND A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TO TEST AND SIGN OFF THAT WE COULD ADD THE ADDITIONAL LOAD TO THAT SLAB BY BUILDING UPWARD. THOSE DIDN'T PAN OUT AS FEASIBLE. WE LOOKED AT ADDING ON TO THE EAST, WHICH IS COMING TOWARDS US IN THAT PHOTO. BUT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN GRADE OF ABOUT FOUR TO FIVE FEET FROM THAT SIDE OF THE HOUSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE. SO THERE'D BE SIGNIFICANT EXCAVATION, RETAINING WALLS. ALSO ALL THE UTILITIES PASS THROUGH UNDERGROUND TO THE ALLEY, KIND OF ALONG THAT SIDEWALK. SO WE'D HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE. THE OVERHEAD ELECTRIC COMES FROM THE CORNER ON THE LEFT, GOES TO THE MAIN HOUSE, AND THEN HANGS BACK TO THIS BUILDING THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE RELOCATED UNDERGROUND WITH SIGNIFICANT COST. UM, AND IN THE END THEY WOULD STILL END UP WITH A GARAGE THAT ISN'T FUNCTIONAL FOR THEM AND FINISH FLOOR ELEVATIONS THAT POTENTIALLY STILL WOULD CAUSE FLOODING AND THE TERMITES THAT EXIST IN THE STRUCTURE THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE REMEDIATED AT BEST. AND FOR MY OWN EXPERIENCE, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO GET RID OF THOSE THINGS. SO THE PLAN THEN CAME TO, WELL, LET'S LOOK AT JUST REMOVING THIS STRUCTURE AND COMING UP WITH SOMETHING THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. SOLVES THE NEEDS OF MY CLIENT FOR SPACE FUNCTIONAL GARAGE, A PLACE FOR THEIR FAMILY TO LIVE. UM, AND ALSO SATISFY, UH, SOME OTHER ISSUES WITH THE SITE TO CORRECT THE DEFICIENCIES THAT THAT EXIST. SO THE EXISTING GARAGE SETS ABOUT TWO AND A HALF FEET FROM THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE AND ABOUT TWO AND A HALF OR THREE FEET FROM THE REAR PROPERTY LINE. UH, THOSE, THE SIDE DOES NOT MEET THE CURRENT SETBACK. UM, SO WITHIN OUR PROPOSED REPLACEMENT OF IT, UH, WE'D LIKE TO RESPECT THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK ON THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE AND STILL RESPECT THE REAR SETBACK, BUT COME ABOUT A FOOT CLOSER TO THE ALLEYWAY. UH, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING DOES NOT GROW SIGNIFICANTLY IN SIZE FROM WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE. WE SLIDE IT OVER A LITTLE BIT. IT GROWS BY A SMALL PERCENTAGE, UH, IN ORDER TO, UH, GET A GARAGE THAT'S MORE FUNCTIONAL AND A STAIRWAY TO GET UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR. SORRY, I'M JUST MAKING SURE I HIT MY NOTES HERE. SO IN TERMS OF THE NEW BUILDING, THIS IS A GOOD SLIDE. THANK YOU. UM, I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT I HAD IN MY PRESENTATION TO THIS BOARD, THE H P O, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS NOT SHOWING THIS IN CONTEXT TO ITS SURROUNDINGS. IT LOOKS LIKE A REGULAR LARGE HOUSE, A TWO STORY HOUSE. UH, BUT IN REALITY IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY SMALLER THAN THE MAIN HOUSE IN HEIGHT AND IN FOOTPRINT. UH, IT HAS MUCH LESS SQUARE FOOTAGE THAN THE MAIN HOUSE, BUT IT TRIES TO EMULATE THE STYLE OF THE MAIN HOUSE BY INCORPORATING, UH, THE SAME SIDING PROFILE, [01:50:01] SAME PAINT COLORS, SAME ROOF MATERIALS, SAME EAVE DETAILS, UH, THE SAME OPERABLE SHUTTERS ON THE WINDOWS. UM, AND A VERY SIMPLIFIED PEDIMENT OVER THE FRONT DOOR, MOSTLY FOR RAIN AND SUN PROTECTION, BUT ALSO TO GIVE IT SOMETHING OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, A A CRACKER BOX LOOK. SO IT'S, IT IS SUBORDINATE TO THE MAIN HOUSE, BUT TRIES TO DRAW FROM THE DETAILS THAT GIVE THAT HOUSE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CLASS THAT IT HAS. UM, THE WINDOWS WERE PROPOSING, UH, FOUR OVER FOUR SOLID WOOD WINDOWS. UH, THERE'S SOME CONFUSION. I SHOWED AN ANDERSON VINYL CLAD WINDOW IN MY SUBMISSION, UH, WHEN I SAW THE PUBLIC POSTING FROM H P O STAFF, UH, IT WAS RECOMMENDING AGAINST THAT, BUT IT HAD NEVER BEEN DISCUSSED WITH ME. SO I SAID, WELL, NO PROBLEM. WE CAN GO WITH A PELLA ALUMINUM CLAD OR FIND ANOTHER WINDOW THAT DOESN'T HAVE CLADDING AT ALL. THAT'S NOT A DEAL BREAKER FOR US. UM, SHUTTERS WOULD BE OPERABLE, UH, SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE GARAGE. DOORS WERE PROVIDED WITHIN THE SUBMISSION AND THEIR WOOD DOORS WITH NO FAUX GRAIN, THEY'D BE PAINTED. I FEEL THEY'RE VERY APPROPRIATE FOR THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT. MY CLIENTS AND MYSELF, WE HAVE NO PROBLEM IF YOU ARE TO APPROVE DEMOLITION THAT WE WOULD SALVAGE ANYTHING WE CAN FROM THAT EXISTING STRUCTURE AND WORK IT INTO OUR NEW BUILDING. UH, IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THE HEIGHT AND TRYING TO MINIMIZE THAT AND ITS APPEARANCE WITHIN THE SITE, UH, WE'VE REDUCED THE HEIGHTS. YOU KNOW, IT HAS AN EIGHT FOOT, UH, FIRST FLOOR CEILING TO STRUCTURE. SECOND FLOOR HAS A SEVEN FOOT, EIGHT TO SPRING LINE. AND WE VAULTED THE CEILING ON THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, TO TRY TO GIVE IT A LIVABLE SPACE UP THERE, BUT ALSO BRING THAT ROOF LINE DOWN, UH, SO IT DOESN'T FEEL TOO TALL IN THE, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SITE. UH, SO ONE OF THE COMMENTS FROM STAFF WAS ABOUT THE, THE SIZE OF THE STRUCTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE FOOTPRINT OF THE MAIN HOUSE. AND UH, SOME OF THAT COMES FROM THE CODE FOR ACCESSORY DWELLINGS WHERE YOU'RE ALLOWED YOUR LIVABLE SPACE IN THE ACCESSORY DWELLING TO BE 40% OF THE FOOTPRINT OF THE MAIN HOME THAT IT'S BEHIND. UH, AND YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMITTEE FOR THE CITY THAT'S BEEN WORKING ON UPDATING U D C CODES FOR ACCESSORY DWELLINGS ALONG WITH OTHER, UH, WAYS TO PROMOTE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE CITY. UH, BUT WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT CHANGING THAT CODE FROM 40% TO 50% FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS. AND YOU KNOW, THE U D C PROCESS STALLED OUT WITH THE PANDEMIC, BUT IT'S GETTING GOING AGAIN. YOU KNOW, THE GOAL OF THAT COMMITTEE IS TO INCREASE THAT NUMBER TO 50% RATHER THAN 40% TO MAKE IT MORE FEASIBLE FOR MORE PEOPLE TO BUILD ACCESSORY DWELLINGS THAT ARE LIVABLE IN THE BACKYARDS BEHIND THEIR HOME. UH, SO THAT'S WHY I TALKED WITH MY CLIENT ABOUT THAT AND THEY SAID THEY'D REALLY LIKE THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, 'CAUSE THEY HAVE A TWO STORY HOME. IT'S NOT A SPRAWLING FOOTPRINT OF A ONE STORY HOME THAT YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, USE AS YOUR 40% RULE. IT'S A TALL TWO STORY, I THINK 2,600 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT A 1300 MAYBE FOOTPRINT. SO WE'D LIKE TO REQUEST THE APPROVAL RIGHT NOW TO GO WITH THE 50% AND WHETHER THE U D C IS ADOPTED AND WE THEN GET OUR PERMIT AND WE GET APPROVED BASED ON IT BEING AN ESTABLISHED AND ACCEPTED U D C AMENDMENT BY COUNCIL. OR WE GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND ASK FOR THE VARIANCE. NOW KNOWING THAT IN THE FUTURE IT WOULD BE THE CODE STANDARD, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING I WILL WORK WITH THEM ON TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FULLY IN COMPLIANCE. BUT I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT EVEN KNOWING THAT THAT CODE IS CURRENTLY 40%. I BELIEVE I CAN DEMONSTRATE TO YOU THAT THE SCALE AND MASSING OF THE ACCESSORY DWELLING IS NOT OUT OF ANY APPROPRIATE STANDARD IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE MAIN HOUSE OR THE CONTEXT OF THE BLOCK. SO COULD YOU GO TO MY OTHER SLIDES FOR THE, THAT SHOW, THE OVERALL MASSING OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? THIS ONE IS GREAT. THANK YOU. SO THIS IS A GOOGLE SCREENSHOT OF THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THE RED SQUARED PROPERTY IS OUR, UH, THREE 12 WEST AGARITA. AND I'VE TRIED TO IDENTIFY EVERY FRONT MAIN HOUSE AND EVERY ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT OR GARAGE THAT IS ALONG AN ALLEY AND HIGHLIGHT THOSE OR COLOR CODE THEM ACCORDING TO WHETHER THEY'RE TWO STORY OR ONE STORY. SO [01:55:01] OUR SUBJECT PROPERTY HAS A TWO STORY MAIN HOUSE, ONE STORY REAR GARAGE. UH, YOU CAN SEE THERE ARE OTHER TWO STORY MAIN HOUSES AND THERE'S A FEW ONE STORY MAIN HOUSES ALONG THE ALLEY OF OUR BLOCK. THERE IS ONE TWO STORY GARAGE THAT'S KIND OF DIAGONAL TO THE EAST. UH, AND THERE ARE SOME ONE STORY GARAGES, ALL OF WHICH SIT IN SIMILAR LOCATIONS TO WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING OUR CURRENT GARAGE AND DWELLING. UH, AS WELL ON THE OTHER BLOCKS, I JUST WENT A FEW STREETS OUT IN ALL DIRECTIONS TO SHOW OVERALL, BUT WHAT IN THE END, MY CALCULATION IS THAT WITHIN THIS AREA, UH, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT ARBITRARY, BUT IT SHOWS THE CONTEXT OF THIS PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN FURTHER EAST WHERE YOU GET INTO THE MANSIONS AND THE LARGER ESTATES. BUT YOU HAVE ABOUT A 40% OF ACCESSORY BUILDINGS THAT ARE TWO STORY AND ABOUT NO 45%, TWO STORY ACCESSORY DWELLINGS, 55%, ONE STORY ACCESSORY DWELLING. SO IT'S FAIRLY EVEN, UM, I DON'T THINK THAT ADDING A TWO STORY STRUCTURE AT OUR PROPERTY ON THIS BLOCK OF THIS ALLEYWAY IS IN ANY WAY DETRIMENTAL TO THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OR FABRIC OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, SO COULD WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE PLEASE? SO THIS IS A PHOTO AS IF YOU'RE STANDING IN THE ALLEY LOOKING WEST RIGHT NEXT TO YOU. ON THE LEFT IS THE TWO STORY STRUCTURE THAT IS WITHIN THIS BLOCK. UH, TO THE RIGHT IS THE ONE STORY ACCESSORY DWELLING, UH, THAT IS THE ADJACENT PROPERTY TO MY CLIENTS. AND I'VE SUPERIMPOSED BEHIND THAT AN APPROXIMATION OF WHAT I BELIEVE OUR TWO STORY STRUCTURE WOULD LOOK LIKE IN SCALE. UH, SO YOU CAN SEE THAT. AND THEN ALL OF MY NOTES, WHICH ARE INCREDIBLY CONFUSING, BUT THEY SERVE A POINT, UH, ARE MEASUREMENTS OF EACH STRUCTURE AND ITS ROOF FROM THE FINISHED FLOOR OF OUR, UH, PROPOSED NEW STRUCTURE. SO, UH, WE'RE PROPOSING TO RAISE THE FINISHED FLOOR UP ONE FOOT TO HELP DEAL WITH THE FLOODING ISSUES AND THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE ALLEYWAY. UH, AS WELL AS SOME OTHER WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO PUT A CONCRETE CURB IN TO HELP DIRECT WATER AWAY. UH, SO IT DOESN'T GO DOWN INTO OUR PROPERTY. UH, BUT ESSENTIALLY, UH, EVERY MEASUREMENT SHOWN THERE IS FROM THE FIN THE NEW PROPOSED FINISH FLOOR OF OUR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. SO WE HAVE A 22 FOOT EIGHT, UH, TWO PEAK OF ROOF. OUR MAIN HOUSE, WHICH IS AT THE TOP, OR NO, I'M SORRY, RIGHT NEXT TO IT IS 28 FEET. I'M SOMEWHAT BLIND, I'M SORRY. UM, AND AS I TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING COMES UPHILL TOWARDS US. SO THE ALLEY SITS ABOUT ONE FOOT HIGHER THAN OUR PROPOSED FINISHED FLOOR. UH, THE CORNER OF THAT FENCE OF THIS PROPERTY WITH A TWO STORY IS SITTING ON A RETAINING WALL. IT GOES UP 11 FEET ABOVE OUR FINISHED FLOOR. UH, A 20 FOOT STRUCTURE HERE ON THE LEFT, WHICH IS THE TWO STORY BUILDING, IS ACTUALLY 26 FEET ABOVE OUR FINISHED FLOOR, UH, SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER THAN OUR PROPOSED PEAK OF OUR STRUCTURE. UH, THE NEIGHBOR'S MAIN HOUSE, UH, IS 32 FEET UP TO THE PEAK. IT'S A 28 FOOT STRUCTURE. UH, THE ONE, IT'S A VERY SMALL ONE STORY NEXT DOOR, UH, SETS AT 17 FEET. SO IT'S ONLY LESS THAN ARE ABOUT FIVE FEET SHORTER THAN OUR TWO STORY STRUCTURE. SO WHEN YOU SET IN CONTEXT OUR PROPOSED TWO STORY, WE DON'T BELIEVE IN ANY WAY THAT IT'S OVERPOWERING THIS ALLEYWAY COMMUNITY. IT CERTAINLY WON'T BE VERY VISIBLE FROM ANY STREET WAYS. UH, IT IS STILL BEHIND THE HOUSE SITTING IN THE ORIGINAL LOCATION OF THE OLD STRUCTURE. SO I GUESS ALL THAT BEING SAID ARE, MY REQUEST TODAY IS THAT DESPITE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AGAINST OUR CLIENT'S DESIRES FOR THIS PROJECT, UH, IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION AND IN THE OPINION OF THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS AND THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE FOR MONTEVISTA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, WE FEEL THAT THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE STRUCTURE TO BE ADDED WITHIN THIS HISTORIC FABRIC. BUT IT'S, THE EXISTING GARAGE ALSO IS NOT A SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED DESPITE ITS DEFICIENCIES. YOU KNOW, AS SOME OF YOU KNOW, I'M ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE THAT WILL GO AGAINST DEMOLITIONS WITHIN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. I'M FIGHTING THAT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD EVERY DAY IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, BECAUSE [02:00:01] IT IS IMPORTANT TO PRESERVE CERTAIN PIECES AND ARCHITECTURAL TIME PIECES IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. UH, BUT I'LL BE QUICK TO SAY IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION, THIS GARAGE IS NOT ONE OF THEM. IT DOESN'T HAVE THOSE DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS THAT ARE SO NECESSARY TO PRESERVE. WE CAN INSTEAD BUILD SOMETHING NEW THAT, UH, RESPECTS THE HISTORIC CHARACTERS THAT EXIST WITHIN THIS BLOCK OF MONTEVISTA THAT DOES NOT OVERPOWER THE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES, UH, DOES NOT COMPETE WITH THEM. UM, AND PROVIDES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR MY CLIENTS TO HAVE THE SPACE THEY NEED AND BRING THEIR FAMILY IN AND LET THEIR CHILDREN HAVE PLAY DATES AND SLEEPOVERS IN A SPACE THAT ISN'T RIGHT ON TOP OF, UH, THEIR MOTHER AND FATHER WHO BOTH ARE WORKING FROM HOME FOR THE PAST 18 MONTHS. AND ONE OF THEM HAS ALWAYS WORKED FROM HOME. SO THAT'S OUR REQUEST TO YOU TODAY. AND RESPECTFULLY, I HOPE THAT YOU CAN SEE, UH, MY CLIENTS AND MY OPINION ON THIS AND, UH, VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT OR ALL SEVERAL ASPECTS OF THIS PROJECT. SO I'M VERY HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. THANK YOU. UH, DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZENS TO, WE HEARD JUST THE LETTERS IN YOUR PACKET. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. YES MA'AM. THANK YOU MR. NEFF. I THINK I SAW SOME COMMENTS FROM THE D R C THAT ACTUALLY SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS WERE ALSO FINDING THE DEMOLITION OF THE I I'M JUST FOCUSING ON REQUEST NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS THE DEMOLITION. YES. SO THE MONTE VISTA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IS SUPPORTING IT. I FELT THAT THE COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE ON SITE SUPPORTED, I USUALLY TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT VERY IMPORTANTLY. SO I WOULD SAY I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE ON ITEM NUMBER TWO. I MEAN, I THINK THE STIPULATIONS ON THE GARAGE DOOR, YOU CAN ACCEPT THAT ON THE WINDOWS, ET CETERA. BUT ON THE FOOTPRINT AND THE MASSING, UM, I DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN. UM, AND ALSO BECAUSE YOU WERE MENTIONING ABOUT THE 50%, AND I SEE IN THE FINDINGS THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING 765 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT AND THE MAIN HOUSE IS 1306. SO EVEN IF YOU GET A VARIANCE, YOU'RE STILL, OR EVEN IF THE U D C CHANGES, YOU'RE STILL OVER 50 AND IT FELT LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL US YOU'RE FIGHTING FOR THE 50, BUT YOU'RE ACTUALLY FIGHTING FOR MUCH MORE THAN 50. SO IS THERE A WAY THAT THAT STIPULATION COULD STAY? AND WE COULD SAY WE APPROVE ITEM NUMBER ONE MAYBE, AND THEN ON THE ITEM NUMBER TWO, BECOME LIKE A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. BUT COME BACK WITH LIKE, I, I'D ACTUALLY, I THINK WE DISCUSSED TOO, THE SHUTTERS I THINK ARE NOT EVEN NEEDED. BUT I MEAN SOMEONE, MAYBE WE COULD GO BACK AND REVIEW THE DESIGN OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, BUT OF COURSE I'LL LET MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS, UH, COMMENT ON THAT AS WELL. YES. COULD I ADDRESS THAT 40 50, YOU KNOW, PERCENTAGE RULE? 'CAUSE IT IS INCREDIBLY CONFUSING AND TOOK ME A FEW WEEKS TO EXPLAIN IT TO MY CLIENTS. UM, SO THE PERCENTAGE IS BASED UPON THE FOOTPRINT OF THE MAIN HOUSE. YOU APPLY 40% OF THAT, BUT THEN WITHIN THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, YOU'RE ONLY CALCULATING LIVABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE WITHIN THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE OF THE TWO FLOORS. SO YOU DON'T COUNT THE GARAGE, YOU DON'T COUNT THE STAIRWELL, YOU DON'T COUNT AN AC CLOSET, BUT YOU COUNT BEDROOMS, UM, LIVING ROOMS, KITCHENS, LIVABLE SPACES WITHIN THAT. AND THAT'S HOW THE CODE FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING SQUARE FOOTAGE IS CALCULATED IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE MAIN HOME. SO THE 40% RULE CURRENTLY IS ABOUT LIVABLE SPACE WITHIN THE A D U AS COMPARED TO THE MAIN HOUSE FOOTPRINT. THE U D C CHANGES THAT THE COMMITTEE I SERVE ON IS RECOMMENDING CHANGES AT TO 50% LIVABLE SPACES AS COMPARED TO, UH, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE MAIN HOUSE. BUT I DO WANT TO CLARIFY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT RULES. AND SO THIS IS CORRECT. THIS IS FOR CALCULATING THE SIZE OF AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, HOW, HOW MUCH HABITABLE SPACE YOU CAN HAVE. RIGHT? UM, AND THEN WITH THE SWORD DESIGN GUIDELINES, THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION FOR FOOTPRINT BASED ON THE FOOTPRINT. SO TWO DIFFERENT CALCULATIONS. OKAY. SO, EXCUSE ME THEN IF I'M MISUNDERSTANDING IT. SO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT REQUIREMENTS STATE THAT FOOTPRINT TO FOOTPRINT, 40% RULE. OKAY. I IMMEDIATELY JUMPED ONTO WHAT I KNOW SO WELL, WHICH IS THE BUILDING CODE ISSUE. UM, OKAY. SO YEAH, I THINK BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID WE'RE PROBABLY 55% OR SOMETHING. UM, I'D REALLY HAVE TO STUDY IT AND EXCUSE ME, I'D HAVE TO STUDY IT AND SEE IF, [02:05:03] YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH WOULD WE COMPROMISE THAT DOWNSTAIRS LIVING SPACE IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE, UH, A 40% FOOTPRINT RULE. UM, AND AS WELL, I DON'T BELIEVE THE EXISTING, WELL, I'M NOT SURE THE EXISTING STRUCTURE MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN 40% IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'D HAVE TO REALLY RUN THAT CALCULATION TO SEE. UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I COULD ASK A QUESTION ABOUT, UH, YES, COMMISSIONER FISH. SO THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE EXISTING STRUCTURE IN THE PROPOSED NEWS STRUCTURE, WHAT, WHAT IS THAT? HOW, WHAT IS THE INCREASE IN FOOT FOOTPRINT? YIKES. SORRY, I'M NOW 43 AND I'VE GONE BLIND. UM, I THINK THAT SAYS 630 SQUARE FEET FOR THE EXISTING GARAGE AND DWELLING FOOTPRINT. AND IN TERMS OF PERCENTAGE, IS THAT, I'M SORRY, I CAN'T READ THE NUMBERS ON MY SCREEN EITHER. YEAH. SO, UH, THE MAIN HOUSE IS APPROXIMATELY 1300. THE FOOTPRINT OF THE EXISTING ACCESSORY DWELLING IS 630. UM, SO RIGHT THERE WE'RE OVER 40% FOR SURE. JUST WITH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, UH, PROPOSED NEW STRUCTURE, I HAVE 763 SQUARE FEET FOR THE NEW FOOTPRINT FROM, WHAT WAS IT BEFORE? 6, 6 37. SEVEN WHAT TO SIX 30. SIX 30 TO 7 63. SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 133 SQUARE FEET ADDED TO THE NEW FOOTPRINT. UM, YOU KNOW, ON THE FACE OF IT, YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE, LIKE A REASONABLE SCALE ADDITION. I THINK IF WE GET OVER THE, THE DEMOLITION ISSUE, I LOOK TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS FOR, FOR GUIDANCE ON THESE THINGS SPECIFICALLY, UM, WHEN THERE'S KIND OF A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT'S CONTRIBUTING, BECAUSE I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE A GOOD SENSE OF WHETHER OR NOT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, UM, IS CREATING VALUE FOR A COMMUNITY. SO, UH, I BELIEVE I CONCUR WITH COMMISSIONER GRU ON, ON ITEM ONE, ON ITEM TWO. I HAVE SOME RESERVATION ABOUT THE MASS, BUT I UNDERSTAND IT TO BE, IN TERMS OF FOOTPRINT, SLIGHTLY LARGER THAN WHAT'S THERE. MAYBE A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH LARGER THAN WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE. AND IN TERMS OF HEIGHT, IT'S, UH, A FIVE, IT'S FIVE FEET BELOW THE EXISTING HEIGHT OF THE HOUSE. IS THAT THAT'S RIGHT. I'D RATHER LOOK AT MY PAPER THAN TRY TO ASSUME. I REMEMBER THAT. I THINK THAT THEY DO PROPOSED IT WAS 22, 6 TO 28, SO YEAH. OKAY. UM, YEAH, FIVE AND A HALF FEET. UM, I DO THINK THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS, UM, MAINTAINING A DIMINUTIVE STATUS TO THE HOUSE. UH, BUT A, UH, FURTHER REDUCTION IN, IN OVERALL FOOTPRINT OR MASS, I THINK SHOULD BE EXPLORED. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO CONSIDER A MAYBE A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THAT STIPULATION IN SO YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK AT POSSIBLE WAYS OF REDUCING THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION? UH, YOU KNOW, I REALLY WANNA KEEP MY CLIENTS IN MIND BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN AT THIS FOR MANY MONTHS AND WE'VE ALREADY DELAYED THIS MEETING BY A HALF A MONTH, I GUESS. UM, AND WE WORKED THROUGH WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION OVER THE PAST SIX MONTHS AND GOT DIFFERING OPINIONS, UH, EACH TIME WE CAME TO COME HERE. UM, WELL, IT ALL MIGHT BE MOOT IF THERE'S NOT SUPPORT FOR DEMOLITION UP HERE. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT. YES, OF COURSE. I WANNA SAY THAT WE, I COULD PROBABLY TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, I CAN REDUCE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE BY A CERTAIN FACTOR TO GET US CLOSER TO A PRESCRIBED CODE OR TO NEAR WHAT THE OLD BUILDING IS CURRENTLY. UM, IF I CAN FIND WHAT THE WIDTH OF THIS THING IS, MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. THE, UM, UH, THERE, I, I THINK THERE'S A REALITY TO, TO, UM, THESE OLDER STRUCTURES THAT END UP BELOW A PARTICULAR ELEVATION IN YEARS, AND THEY BECOME PLACES THAT YOU PUT YOUR STUFF IN, AND THEN YOU TAKE YOUR STUFF OUT BEFORE BIG RAIN COMES, AND THEN YOU GO PUT YOUR STUFF BACK IN THERE AFTER THE RAIN. AND THAT'S KIND OF A PROCESS OF, OF APPRECIATING A STRUCTURE THAT HAS FALLEN OUT OF, UH, KINDA OPERATIONAL CAPACITY. UM, THE SIMPLICITY OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, THE PROPOSED, UM, UH, UH, A, UM, REPLACEMENT WITH KIND OF A LIKE AESTHETIC, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH, I THINK WHAT WHAT IS KNOWN, UM, WHAT'S GONNA BE KNOWN AGAIN AS A GRANNY FLAT IS IN THE, [02:10:01] IN, IN, IN THE, IN THE NATION. THERE, THERE, THERE'S A MOVE TO, OR KIND OF RE-EMPOWER THE ACCESSORY DWELLING, PARTICULARLY AS, AS IT RELATES TO, UH, UH, AGING, AGING IN PLACE, RIGHT? WHEN FAMILY MOVES INTO THE HOUSE AND THE PARENTS SAY, WELL, WE'LL TAKE THE SMALLER PLACE, OR, OR THAT YOU BRING YOUR PARENTS TO LIVE WITH YOU, RIGHT? BECAUSE COST OF HEALTHCARE AND ALL THOSE OTHER THINGS, IT, IT HELPS TO HAVE FAMILY THERE. SO FROM, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE, THE, UM, THE REPLACEMENT IS A, IS A VERY RESPECTFUL REPLACEMENT. I THINK THE VERY TELLING, IF STAFF COULD GO TO THE ALLEY SHOT THAT HE, HE PROVIDED, IF YOU GO TO THAT SHOT RIGHT THERE, I THINK THAT TELLS THE WHOLE STORY OF EXACTLY WHAT THE END RESULT IS. AND IT, IT IS WITHIN THE, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE ELEVATIONS, UH, THE HEIGHTS OF, OF THE AREA. BUT I THINK MORE, MORE IMPORTANTLY, DONE PROPERLY. UH, AND I, AND I REALLY THINK IT'S VERY SENSITIVE, THE, THE LOWERING OF THE PLATE BECAUSE, UM, I MEAN, THAT'S REALLY A VOLUNTARY THING ON THE PART OF THE DESIGNER TO SAY, WELL, WE'LL, WE'LL CUT, CUT IT INSIDE, RIGHT? UM, THAT THIS VERY THOUGHTFUL, IT SPEAKS TO HOW, HOW MUCH YOU'VE THOUGHT ABOUT, UM, UH, WHAT IT IS THAT YOU WANT TO ACHIEVE, RIGHT? THE, THE, UH, PROBLEM SOLVING, UM, THAT WHAT IT REALLY DOES IS IT MAKES THIS PLATT OF ENVIRONMENT, THIS, THIS, THIS, UH, THIS LAND, THIS, THIS, UH, HOUSE, THIS COMPOUND FUNCTIONAL, AND IT PROBABLY DOESN'T MAKE IT FUNCTIONAL JUST FOR THIS FAMILY, BUT IT PROBABLY MAKES IT FUNCTION FOR THE NEXT A HUNDRED, 200 YEARS. SO I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S AN ENHANCEMENT. IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT DONE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE ARCHITECTURAL LANDSCAPE THERE. AND, UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE 150 OR THE, UM, UH, WHATEVER THE FOOTPRINT WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE PLAN, I THINK IT, IT, IT'S, IT CAN BE DESCRIBED AS PETITE, RESPECTFUL IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT. AND I SEE NO REASON TO, UM, MICROMANAGE THE, SUCH A SIMPLE, UM, UM, PROJECT. UM, I, I MEAN, OUTSIDE OF MEETING YOUR WINDOW STIPULATIONS, RIGHT? BUT, UM, I WOULD SUPPORT A MOTION AND HOPE THAT THERE WOULD BE A MOTION TO ENABLE THIS PROJECT TO MOVE ON SO WE CAN GET TO THE NEXT CASE. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. YES, THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. APPRECIATE, AND I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS FROM OUR, UH, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS THERE, CONCUR WITH THAT. THIS IS IDENTICAL TO A PROJECT WE DID OVER ON WEST ELSNER. I MEAN, HOW, HOW YOU DESCRIBED IT WITH PARENTS COMING TO LIVE WITH THE, UH, WITH THE OWNERS AND EVERYTHING IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. AND, UM, I THINK IN THAT CASE, AS IN THIS ONE, I'M, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE DEMOLITION PRIMARILY BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE'S BACK ON THE SITE SO FAR FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, THAT, UM, UNLIKE A ANOTHER CASE THAT WE, UH, HEARD HERE IN MONTEVISTA, UH, THIS, UH, FEW MONTHS AGO, THAT WAS A CORNER LOT. IT WAS A VERY PROMINENT, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WAS VERY PROMINENT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A MODEST STRUCTURE, IT'S, ITS REMOVAL WOULD'VE BEEN A, A HUGE IMPACT TO THE, TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND TO THE COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T NOT THAT GREAT A BUILDING. AND THIS IS A VERY MODEST BUILDING AS WELL. SO I, I THINK BECAUSE OF ITS POSITION, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE, THE REALITY THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS FREQUENTLY SUFFERED FROM BEING, UH, YOU KNOW, COM COMPOSED OF ALMOST LEFTOVER MATERIALS FROM THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, UH, VERY, UH, INFERIOR IN, IN CONSTRUCTION WIDE SPACING OF STUDS AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING, AND JUST SUFFERED FROM LACK OF MAINTENANCE OVER TIME THAT, UH, THEY, THEY EXCEED THEIR ECONOMIC AND FUNCTIONAL LIFE AT SOME POINT. SO I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THE DEMOLITION. I I THINK THE, THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT PLAN IS APPROPRIATE, THOUGH, I THINK, TO GIVE YOU A HINT, WITH THE ZONING, THE CLOSER YOU CAN GET BACK TO THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT OF THAT ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, THE EASIER A CELL IT WILL BE WITH THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE. UM, SO FOR THAT REASON ALONE, I WOULD ENCOURAGE SOME KIND OF DIET TO BE PUT ON, ON THE, ON THE PROJECT IF YOU COULD, IF YOU COULD REDUCE THE FOOTPRINT IN SOME WAY. THANK YOU. I'M READY TO DO A MOTION, MR. CHAIR. UH, YES MA'AM. A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM NUMBER ONE, AND THEN, UM, I WOULD CONCEPTUALLY APPROVE ITEM NUMBER TWO AND HAVE YOU COME BACK OR MAYBE IN A D R C WHERE WE DO, UH, JUST LOOK AT OUR FINAL VERSION OF, OF REDUCED SKILL MS OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WITH THE STAFF STIPULATIONS. AND I SECOND THAT. COULD I COMMENT ON THAT? I WAS WITHHOLDING COMMENT FOR EVERYONE TO SPEAK RATHER THAN JUST ADDRESS EVERYBODY. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I CAN RESOLVE A SQUARE FOOTAGE ISSUE ON THIS SIMPLE STRUCTURE IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES. IT'S NOT GONNA TAKE ME A MONTH TO GET BACK BEFORE YOU AGAIN, TO RESOLVE [02:15:01] THAT. JUST LOOKING AT IT, I CAN EASILY SQUEEZE OUT 50 SQUARE FEET FROM THIS STRUCTURE WITHOUT COMPROMISING ANYTHING FROM THE GARAGE AND THE LIVING SPACE ABOVE IT. IF THAT BROUGHT US CLOSER TO THAT FOOTPRINT THAT MADE THIS ACCEPTABLE FOR FINAL APPROVAL TODAY, I'D BE WILLING TO GUARANTEE YOU THAT I WILL MAKE THE PERMIT PLANS REFLECT A TOTAL FOOTPRINT THAT IS 50 SQUARE FEET LESS THAN WHAT I'M PROPOSING HERE TODAY. AND THAT WOULD, UH, BRING US TO 75 SQUARE FEET GREATER THAN THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURES FOOTPRINT. SOMETHING AROUND THAT. MY MATH ISN'T THAT GREAT. UM, WOULD THAT HELP AT ALL IN, UH, GAINING A FINAL APPROVAL OF THINGS TODAY? I MEAN, I, I'M NOT LIKE A HUNDRED PERCENT COMFORTABLE ON AMENDING MY MOTION, BUT IF THE COMMISSION FEELS LIKE IT WAS, IT WOULD SUPPORT THAT I WOULD AMEN IT. COMMISSIONER GROOVE MAYBE. I MEAN, THE, WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT FOOTPRINT MORE THAN WE ARE OVERALL MASS. MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF CAN, UH, DEAL WITH BEFORE THE C O A IS ISSUED RATHER THAN COMING BACK TO THE FULL COMMISSION. SO I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF AN AMENDMENT LIKE THAT. AND MY SECOND WAS, WERE YOU THE SECOND WHO WAS THE SECOND? I WOULD SUPPORT THAT AS WELL. OKAY. THEN I'LL, UH, CHANGE MY AMENDMENT TOO. UM, APPROVE ITEM NUMBER TWO AND APPROVE ITEM NUMBER TWO. SORRY, APPROVE ITEM NUMBER ONE AND ITEM NUMBER TWO. AND I WILL, UH, CHANGE STIPULATION ONE FOR, UH, THE APPLICANT TO RE TO, UM, REVIEW THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT AND SUBMIT TO STAFF THE REVISED DRAWING. IS THAT CLEAR? I THINK IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE REALLY SPECIFIC FOR STAFF TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT. AND SO I THINK WHAT WAS OFFERED BY THE APPLICANT WAS A REDUCTION OF 50 SQUARE FEET. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO INCLUDE. WELL, I'M GONNA ACTUALLY, UH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 50% OF, OR YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 50 SQUARE FEET OR 50% TO THE PROPERTY. HOW ABOUT WE DO THIS, REDUCE IT TO THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT, WHICH IS A 630? WELL, MY CONCERN IS THAT THAT IS PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH THE STRUCTURE TODAY IS IT'S NOT LARGE ENOUGH FOR THEIR USE. AND WE'RE ALSO ADDING A STAIRWELL THAT IS TAKING OUT SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM THAT FOOTPRINT. SO IT, IT NEEDS TO INCREASE IN ORDER TO BE A LIVABLE BUILDING. UH, WE'RE, SO 50% OF THE 1306 IS SIX 50, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 20 ADDITIONAL. I FEEL LIKE, I MEAN, I HAVE AN AIRBNB IN MY HOUSE AND I DON'T HAVE HUGE CLOSET SPACES. I FEEL LIKE YOUR SPACE HAS A LOT OF CLOSET SPACE, HAS A LOT OF, IF YOU, IF YOU FOLLOW THE STIPULATION OF THE GARAGE DOORS, YOU WON'T HAVE THAT MIDDLE PARTITION IN THE GARAGE. LIKE, UNLESS IN THE GARAGE YOU DON'T NEED SHOWER AND HOT TUB AND TUB. SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS. I'M NOT DECIDING WHAT TO DO ON THE INSIDE. WE DON'T HAVE PURVIEW, BUT WOULD THAT BE OKAY IF WE DO 650? UM, THAT, THAT WASN'T WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO. CURRENTLY, THE CURRENT PLAN IS 133 SQUARE FEET OVER THE EXISTING FOOTPRINT. AND I'M SAYING I CAN REDUCE THAT OVERAGE BY 50 FEET LESS. SO IT WOULD STILL BE 83 FEET GREATER. I DON'T A SUGGESTION. COMMISSIONER GRU, IF HE SAID A MINIMUM OF 50 SQUARE FEET AND THEN THE APPLICANT CAN THEN GO BACK, LOOK AT THE PLANS, HE MAY BE ABLE TO PULL OUT MORE THAN 50 SQUARE FEET. BUT YEAH, BUT THEN WE PUT THAT ON STAFF AND THAT'S WHERE I FELT COMFORTABLE MR. AND THEN STAFF WOULD CONFIRM THAT, THAT IT'S A MINIMUM OF 50 SQUARE FEET. MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY, UM, JUST IN THE, I MEAN THIS MIGHT SOUND LIKE A WRENCH, BUT I, I, I THINK THAT THE CONVERSATION WOULD CREATES A CONVERSATION LIKE THIS IS THAT IT IS PROBABLY RIGHT THE WAY THAT HE DID IT. BECAUSE WHEN WE THINK ABOUT WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE, OF THE STRUCTURE IS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF ITS TININESS ALREADY, THE PURPOSE IS TO ACCOMMODATE AND TO ACCOMMODATE COMFORTABLY. WE HAVE ONE OPPORTUNITY TO ENABLE A PROJECT THAT ACTUALLY WORKS LIKE SO MANY OTHER PROJECTS, RIGHT? BUT ONE THAT HAS A SPACE THAT SAYS THAT THIS IS A PLACE THAT IS INTENDED TO, UM, HOUSE SOMEONE, NOT JUST PROVIDE A PLACE FOR SOMEBODY BECAUSE THAT'S ALL THEY CAN AFFORD, AND, AND THAT WE GOTTA GET 'EM IN AND OUT AND, AND, AND THEY'RE NOT IMPORTANT. THE ONLY THING THAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT WE MEET THE, THE, THE PARAMETERS OF, OF THE ARBITRARINESS OF OUR, OF OUR, UH, PERCENTAGES HERE. THAT, SO LEMME JUST THAT THE, THAT THE GENTLEMAN IS, IS, IS, IS PRESENTING TO US A PLAN THAT WORKS IN THE CONTEXT OF, OF IT AS A PETITE STATEMENT. AND I JUST ASK THAT THE COMMISSION CONSIDER APPROVING IT AS PRESENTED BECAUSE IT WORKS. UM, AND I KNOW THAT TAKES A LOT, BUT, UH, IT'S, SO LET ME, UH, MY COMMENTS LET ASK STAFF BECAUSE IT WORKS, BUT I, I DON'T, WE'RE GONNA, HE'S ALSO GONNA HAVE TO DO THIS FIGHT AT ZONING, RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO HELP YOU TO MINIMIZE THE BIGGER FIGHT AGAIN, NOW TO STAFF [02:20:01] IF WE, UM, APPROVE ITEM NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS THE DEMOLITION, AND JUST MAYBE HAVE THE APPLICANT COME BACK FOR THE FINAL OF ITEM TWO, HE CAN STILL MOVE ON WITH ITEM NUMBER ONE. AND I MEAN, LIKE, I DON'T THINK WE'RE DELAYING YOUR PROJECT THAT MUCH BECAUSE YOU STILL HAVE TO DO THE WHOLE DEMOLITION, OR AM I WRONG? YES, IT'S TRUE. DEMOLITION WILL TAKE SOME TIME. MY CLIENTS MAY NOT WANT TO DEMOLISH A STRUCTURE THAT THEY HAVE CURRENTLY IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE GUARANTEE THAT THEIR PLAN IS APPROVED. I MEAN, I, I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH EVERYTHING I'M HEARING TODAY, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A REALITY IN THAT WHY SPEND SO MUCH MONEY TO TEAR SOMETHING DOWN WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A APPROVAL YET FOR THE REPLACEMENT. WELL, HERE, HERE'S A REALITY, YOU KNOW, GETTING ON THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, THEY HAVE, THEY TAKE LIMITED CASES EVERY HEARING, AND THAT IS GONNA BE A LONG PROCESS. UH, LIKE I SAID, WE WENT THROUGH A VERY SIMILAR SORT OF, UH, PROJECT AS THIS. AND JUST BECAUSE OF THE POSITION OF THE STRUCTURE NEXT TO THE, UH, THE REAR PROPERTY LINE AND THE FACT THAT YOU'RE GOING UP IN INCREASING SOME OF THESE PERCENTAGES, THAT'S GONNA BE A PROCESS. SO I, I THINK YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME THAN YOU'RE REPRESENTING HERE, UH, TO WORK OUT, UH, YOU KNOW, SQUEEZING THE, THE WATER BALLOON HERE A LITTLE BIT ON THIS, ON THE SIZE OF THIS PROPOSAL. SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE BUILDING OF THE DESIGN WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND APPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION, CORRECT? WELL, I THINK I AMENDED THE MOTION, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF WAS OKAY WITH THAT ADDED STIPULATION. SO WITH AMENDMENT THAT WE DID. SO I THOUGHT THERE WAS A DESIRE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR FINAL APPROVAL WITH A STIPULATION THAT GAVE STAFF AUTHORITY TO ISSUE THE C O A. WHAT WAS REPEATED JUST NOW WAS CONCEPTUAL. SO THAT NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED FIRST. NO. SO ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THAT AS A FINAL, WITH STAFF MAKING THE FINAL, IF THERE WAS A, A, A NUMBER THAT STAFF WAS LOOKING FOR IN ORDER TO ISSUE THE C O A WITH DIRECTION FROM THIS COMMISSION, THEN THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. CAN THAT NUMBER BE A PERCENTAGE OF THE FOOTPRINT? I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PERCENTAGE, RIGHT? YEAH. ANYTHING WE CAN POINT TO? OKAY, SO I'LL ADD WHAT, UM, WAS IT COMMISSIONER FISHER, COMMISSIONER CARBON HAD AND MEANT TO INCLUDE SIX 50 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM REDUCTION FOOTPRINT, BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FOOTPRINT, NOT THE LIVABLE AREA, RIGHT? CORRECT. VERY CLEARLY. I UNDERSTAND NOW THAT I OFFERED A 50 SQUARE FOOT REDUCTION THAT IS FROM THE FOOTPRINT. SO AT LEAST 50, WHICH WILL PUT US LIKE AT 6 85. YES. AND IT WOULD BE MORE LIKE A HUNDRED SQUARE FOOT REDUCTION FROM THE TOTAL BUILDING BECAUSE WE'LL BE SQUEEZING THE ENTIRE THING. CAN I SECOND THAT MOTION, ADD THAT AMENDMENT? SO MOTION IS SECOND. HOPEFULLY WE'VE HAD ENOUGH DISCUSSION. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? AND JUST TO CLARIFY THIS, THE MOTION FOR ITEM TWO IS FOR FINAL APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE OVERALL FOOTPRINT BE 50% OF THE PRIMARY FOOTPRINT? NO, NO, BE REDUCED. 50 THAT THE, THAT THE PROPOSED FOOTPRINT WOULD BE REDUCED WITH A MINIMUM OF 50 SQUARE FEET. SQUARE FEET. OKAY. THAT PUTS US AROUND 685. I DID HEAR PERCENT SOMEWHERE IN THERE, SO OKAY. 50 SQUARE FEET. YEAH. AND, AND I DO WANNA KEEP THE OTHER STIPULATIONS ON THERE. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY. OKAY. WE HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE FISH? AYE. SINA. AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. ANTE? YES. ZER. AYE. AND AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION. I APPRECIATE IT. ITEM 18, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 18, H D R C CASE 2021 DASH 6 1 3 2 0 1 ISABEL STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION TO THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE TO FEATURE APPROXIMATELY 334 SQUARE FEET. THE PROPOSED ADDITION WILL BE CONSTRUCTED TO THE EAST SIDE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE ADDITION BASED ON FINDINGS B THROUGH G. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL THAT THE PROPOSED ADDITIONS SETBACK BE INCREASED TO 50% OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURES SETBACK AS NOTED IN FINDING [02:25:01] C. AND THAT A LOWER TRANSITIONAL FORM BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND THE ADDITIONS BE OR ADDITION BE USED AS NOTED IN FINDING E AND THE APPLICANT, UM, IS HERE IN PERSON. IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM. EVA, UM, JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS PLEASE. HELLO, MY NAME IS EVA GARCIA. I'M THE OWNER OF 2 0 1 ISABEL STREET. UM, OKAY. AGAIN, MY NAME IS EVA GARCIA. I AM THE OWNER AT 2 0 1 ISABEL STREET, UM, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 0 1. UH, WE HAD SUBMITTED A REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ADD ONTO THIS HOME. IT'S A 948 SQUARE FOOT HOME BUILT IN 1914. IT'S IN THE MISSION DISTRICT. UM, WE'D LIKE TO ADD 336 SQUARE FEET TO MAKE IT A THREE BEDROOM, TWO BATH HOME. CURRENTLY IT'S A TWO BEDROOM, ONE BATH HOME. WE FEEL, UM, THAT THIS WOULD BE, UH, A BETTER FIT THAT, UH, TODAY PEOPLE REQUEST OFTEN A SECOND BATHROOM A LITTLE BIT BIGGER. 948 SQUARE FEET IS PRETTY SMALL. UM, WE HAD CONSIDERED DOING THE ADDITION TO THE REAR OF THE HOME, BUT BECAUSE OF THAT PECAN TREE THAT'S IN THE REAR, UH, IT'S THE ONLY TREE ON THE PROPERTY. UM, SO WE DID NOT FEEL THAT THAT WAS AN APPROPRIATE DECISION OR APPROPRIATE CHOICE. UM, ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE HOME, THERE'S VERY LITTLE SPACE BETWEEN, UH, OUR HOME AND THE EXISTING HOME NEXT DOOR. SO REALLY THE ONLY CHOICE WAS ON THE EAST SIDE, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE. UM, THIS HOME IS IN BADLY NEEDED REPAIR. IT'S GOT, ONCE YOU TAKE THE WALLS DOWN, YOU JUST FIND MORE AND MORE AND MORE. UM, BASICALLY IT'S REALLY COSTING QUITE A BIT TO REPAIR THE HOME. AND REALLY IT IS AN INVESTMENT. UM, WE'D LIKE TO SELL TO SOMEONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SOMEONE WHO IS FROM THIS PART OF TOWN, SOMEBODY WHO CAN APPRECIATE IT. UM, AND WE FEEL THAT A HOME, UM, TO HOLD A FAMILY WOULD BE BETTER FIT. THREE BEDROOMS, TWO BATH. AND REALLY THE RETURN ON INVESTMENT WILL ONLY BE IF WE CAN MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT BIGGER. A TWO, A TWO BEDROOM, ONE BATH HOME FOR, OH, WITH 948 SQUARE FEET. AND THE MONEY THAT WE'VE PUT INTO IT SO FAR, I DON'T EVEN THINK WE'LL BREAK EVEN. YOU KNOW, THERE'S ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING FOUNDATION, THERE'S SIGNIFICANT TERMITE DAMAGE. UM, JUST A LOT OF STRUCTURAL DAMAGE. SO THAT'S OUR CASE. OKAY, THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS? NO, WE DON'T. NO. OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION. SO I'LL, I'LL LEAD OFF BECAUSE I THINK I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF YOUR EFFORTS HERE TO TRY TO, UM, TO EXPAND THIS HOUSE 'CAUSE IT IS SO MODEST IN SIZE. SO THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE TO, TO RESPOND TO, YOU KNOW, YOUR POTENTIAL MARKET, WHO YOU COULD SELL THIS TO AS AN INVESTMENT PIECE. BUT, UM, AND I'M GLAD YOU ANSWERED THE QUESTION. 'CAUSE FOR ME IT SEEMED GLARINGLY OBVIOUS THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY FAIRLY LIMITED ON THIS SIDE ADDITION BECAUSE OF WHERE YOUR SETBACK IS AND WHAT, WHY YOU DIDN'T ADD TO THE REAR IS THAT PECAN TREE. AND SO WHAT INSTANTLY JUMPED TO MIND FOR ME IS, HAS ITS HEALTH BEEN ASSESSED? IS THIS A LITTLE BIT OF THE DOG OR THE TAIL WA WAGGING THE DOG? BECAUSE IF WE'RE THINKING LONG TERM FOR THIS PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT PECAN TREE'S PROBABLY BEEN THERE FOR, UH, CLOSE TO A HUNDRED YEARS. AND I KNOW I HAVE ONE THAT'S FALLING APART IN MY BACKYARD AND IT'S BECOMING ACTUALLY KIND OF A BIT OF A HAZARD. SO IT'S, IT'S GETTING TO THE END OF ITS FUNCTIONAL LIFE, JUST LIKE THAT GARAGE IN THE, IN THE PREVIOUS, UH, CASE WAS GETTING TO THE END OF ITS FUNCTIONAL LIFE. HAVE YOU HAD ANYONE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, UH, TREE TRIM OR ANYONE TO TAKE A LOOK AT? KIND OF, UH, UH, AN ARBORIST, SOMEONE TO, WELL, MY HUSBAND'S AN ARBORIST. OH, OKAY. WELL, FANTASTIC. YEAH. AND WHAT'S HIS ASSESSMENT OF THE ITSELF? UH, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, PECAN TREES, THEY DO AGE, THEY DO, THEY'RE PRETTY, THEY CAN BE PRETTY HA PRETTY HAZARDOUS. UM, HE SAYS THAT HE, IT STILL HAS SOME LIFE. WE DID TRIM IT. THAT'S WHY, LOOK, YOU KNOW, BEFORE, UM, WE HAD IT TRIMMED AND LIFTED UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT IS A LITTLE BIT OLDER. IT'S JUST THAT IT'S THE ONLY TREE ON THE PROPERTY. IF YOU TAKE THAT DOWN, THEN I THINK IT'S REALLY GONNA BE BARE. THERE'S A TREE TO THE FRONT, BUT IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE PROPERTY LINE. SO IT'S, I DON'T EVEN THINK THERE'S A PICTURE. IT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE LEFT. SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. AND BELIEVE ME, I'M NOT ONE TO ADVOCATE FOR CUTTING DOWN TREES, BUT I, I AM TRYING TO THINK KINDA LONG TERM HERE, BECAUSE THE PROPOSED SIDE EDITION DOES SO DRAMATICALLY AFFECT ONE OF THE TWO MAJOR ELEVATIONS AS SEEN FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. AND IT WOULD REALLY RESULT IN THAT WHAT WOULD BECOME AN INTERNALIZED ROOM WITH VERY LITTLE DAYLIGHT. AND I'M THINKING ALSO JUST THE QUALITY OF WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE IN THE END AS SOMETHING AS, AS A, AS A PRODUCT TO SELL TO, TO GET BACK YOUR INVESTMENT ON. UM, SO I I, I WOULD BE AN ADVOCATE OF MAYBE RETHINKING THIS AND, AND SEEING IF, IF THAT TREE COULD COME DOWN AND YOU PLANT SOME NEW ONES THAT WILL GROW UP FOR THE NEXT A HUNDRED YEARS AND EXTEND THE, THE USEFULNESS OF THIS PROPERTY IN THAT WAY. THERE'S ALSO [02:30:01] A GAS LINE THAT NEEDS TO BE REMOVED THAT'S AT THE REAR OF THEIR HOUSE. SO, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A PICTURE TO THAT ALSO. UM, RIGHT THERE. YEAH. AND YOU KNOW, I'LL BE VERY HONEST, I'M A NOVICE HERE, YOU KNOW, SO I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'LL BE PAID FOR BY THE CITY OR IF THIS IS A COST, IT WILL ALSO HAVE TO INCUR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A CONSIDERATION ALSO, I THINK WHEN I THINK OF A FAMILY MOVING INTO THAT HOME, I THINK OF A, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHERE FOR KIDS TO PLAY IF THERE'S NOTHING IN THE REAR BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE DRIVEWAY. YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALSO THINK SOMETHING I THINK ABOUT, I HAVE A LOT OF KIDS, SO, YOU KNOW, I WANT THEM TO PLAY IN THE BACKYARD. IF YOU DO THE ADDITION TO THE REAR, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY BACKYARD. PERHAPS SOME OF MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS MIGHT HAVE SOME COMMENTS. MR. CHAIRMAN, CHAIRMAN, UH, COMMISSIONER LAO? UH, YES. COMMISSIONER LAO. UH, JUST LOOKING AT THE PHOTOS THAT ARE BEING PRESENTED, UH, THE PHOTOS OF THE CONTRARY, IN MY OPINION, IT SEEMS TO BE IN PRETTY GOOD HEALTH. UM, AND I AGREE THAT, UH, ADDING THE ADDITION AT THE REAR OF THE HOUSE WOULD, UH, SUBSTANTIALLY, UM, ENCROACH ON THE ROOT PROTECTION ZONE OF THE TREE. AND IT PROBABLY WOULD RESULT IN, WOULD RESULT IN ITS DEATH. SO FROM THE TREE STANDPOINT, UH, ADDING THE ADDITION ON THE SIDE IS, IS A MORE PRACTICAL ROUTE TO TAKE. OKAY. MR. MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU, SIR. UH, YES, SIR. UM, UH, IMAGINING FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF, OF THERE BEING A SOLUTION TO ADDING TO THE SIDE, I THINK ONE, ONE PROBLEM THAT IS, IS VISUALLY, UM, DISTRACTING MM-HMM. , IS THAT THE WIDTH IS INFORMING THE HEIGHT OF THE ROOF. SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOU MIGHT DO WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING WHAT SIZE THE WIDTH IS, SOMETIMES YOU DON'T DETERMINE THAT BASED ON HOW WIDE YOU WANT IT. YOU DETERMINE IT BASED ON THE TOP OF THE ROOF MATCHING. MM-HMM. . AND THAT GIVES YOU A DIMENSION THAT'S ARBITRARY, RIGHT? WHEN YOU DO IT, AND THEN YOU WORK YOUR PLAN INSIDE OF IT. IF, IF THE ROOF WAS LEVEL, UM, THAT THE, THAT THE HEIGHTS OF THE RIDGES WERE LIKE THE SAME, I THINK THAT, THAT IT WOULD BECOME MORE VISUALLY PLEASING, MORE VISUALLY ACCEPTABLE, RIGHT? TO, TO, TO IT LOOKING NATURAL AND LIKE A BETTER FLOW, ORIGINAL BETTER. BUT IF YOU COULD ALSO COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT, THEN WHAT THAT DOES IS IT MAKES IT LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. IN WHICH CASE I THINK IT, THE, THE IDEA FLIES A LITTLE BIT BETTER WITH RESPECT TO, YOU KNOW, GAMBLING THAT YOU'D GET A MAJORITY VOTE, RIGHT? SO UP THERE YOU'RE ALMOST AT POSSIBLY NOT GETTING A VOTE. AND THEN LEVEL, I THINK YOU GET TO A CLOSER CHANCE. OKAY? BUT THEN SUBORDINATING IT, BRINGING THAT ROOF LINE A LITTLE LOWER, THEN I THINK YOUR CHANCES GET BETTER. BUT JUST REMEMBER THAT WHEN THAT LINE GOES LOWER, THE, THE, THE, THE ADDITION GETS NARROWER. OKAY. BECAUSE THERE'S A, THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THIS AND, AND, AND THE WIDTH, RIGHT? SO I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE PROBABLY GREAT TO GET TO ASK FOR A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UH, WITH, WITH ADJUSTMENTS AGREED UPON FOR THE, FOR THE ROOF LINE TO BECOME LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE EXISTING ROOF LINE. OKAY. LOWER. AND THEN, UM, AND THEN I GUESS THERE'S A REDEVELOPMENT OF THE PLAN. OKAY. UM, JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT, MR. CHAIR. YES, MA'AM. UM, SO I DO HAVE, UH, THE SAME CONCERN THAT COMMISSIONER CARPENTER WAS THE, I MEAN, I JUST, AND, AND UNFORTUNATELY IT'S ALSO BECAUSE YOU'RE ON A CORNER LOT MM-HMM. . AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S WHY, RIGHT? I MEAN THAT'S THE REASON WHY IT'S, UM, I DON'T, I IT'S NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE DESIGN. I THINK YOU'LL DO MORE DAMAGE TO THE HOUSE BY ADDING TO THE SIDE THAN ANYTHING. UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS, I THINK, UH, WHAT I WOULD DO IS I WOULD SUGGEST, UH, A SITE VISIT. OKAY. BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE PINING ON A TREE BASED ON PICTURES. HER HUSBAND IS AN ARBORIST. WE'LL LOVE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT. BUT I MEAN, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME MORE OPTIONS ON THIS, UM, LOT, UH, MAYBE EXTENDING OUT FROM THE BACK WITHOUT TOUCHING THE TREE, BUT MAYBE ENCROACHING MORE TOWARDS YOUR GARAGE LITTLE STRUCTURE OVER THERE. MAYBE CONNECTING THOSE TWO STRUCTURES SOMEHOW. UM, I'M NOT SAYING I, I DON'T, IT DOES, IT DOES LOOK FROM THE PICTURES. MAYBE THAT YOUR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ALSO NEEDS A LITTLE UPLIFT, BUT I WOULDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, APPROVING THIS BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION OF THE SET. SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT ROOF AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT DESIGN, BUT YOU'RE, I THINK THE SETBACK, THE SO CLOSE THAT YOU ARE TO THE STREET IS WHAT'S, UH, HURTING THIS PROJECT. MR. [02:35:01] CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR A, UH, D R C MEETING ON SITE, UH, IN THE NEAR FUTURE. SO WE HAVE A MOTION TO SEND THIS TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE ON SITE. SECOND. WE HAVE A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS AYE. FISH? AYE. SENO? AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. LES, ABSENT MAZUA. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. ANTE? YES. BUTZER. AYE. AND FU AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU MS. GARCIA. STAFF WILL GET WITH YOU TO SCHEDULE THAT AND, UM, IF YOU COULD BRING THE FLOOR PLAN OF YOUR ADDITION, UH, TO THAT MEETING SO WE COULD SEE WHAT YOUR INTERIOR SPACES ARE DOING AS WELL. SURE. OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. ITEM 20, AGENDA ITEM 20 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 6 12 20 43 WEST SUMMIT. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH F WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE, THAT THE CARPORT COLUMNS BE WOOD OR WOOD WRAPPED AND B, NO WIDER THAN SIX BY SIX INCHES. TWO, THAT THE STRUCTURE FEATURES WOOD SIDING OR SMOOTH HARDY BOARD SIDING WITH A REVEAL OF NO MORE THAN SIX INCHES BASED ON FINDING E THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FINAL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AND UPDATED PLANS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. FOUR. THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FINAL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE PROPOSED DOOR TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BASED ON FINDING F AND FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT MEETS ALL SETBACK STANDARDS AS REQUIRED BY ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAINS A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. AND THERE IS A LETTER OF SUPPORT IN THE LETTERS FOLDER. THE APPLICANT ANN HARDY IS WITH US VIRTUALLY TODAY. YES, MS. HARDY, MAY YOU, YOU MAY PRESENT YOUR CASE. MS. HARDY, ARE YOU THERE? YOU MIGHT HAVE TO UNMUTE. HELLO? SO YOU LOOK UNMUTED NOW, MS. HARDY, ARE YOU THERE? MS. HARDY? WE CAN'T HEAR YOU. WE MIGHT TRY TO CALL YOU IN THE MEANTIME. STAFF CAN COMMENT THAT THE, UM, THERE WAS A PREVIOUSLY EXISTING REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY THAT WAS APPROVED FOR REMOVAL BY THE H D R C. UM, THERE WAS SIGNIFICANT DETERIORATION AND IT WAS SINKING INTO THE SURROUNDING GROUND. UM, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO INSTALL A METAL AND STEEL STRUCTURE OF A SIMILAR FOOTPRINT IN THE SAME LOCATION. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF, WAS THE APPLICANT OPPOSED TO THE, THE, UH, THE, UH, THE STAFF PROPOSAL? THE APPLICANT WOULD PREFER TO INSTALL THE REQUESTED REAR [02:40:01] ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? UM, SHE HAS SUBMITTED, UM, EVIDENCE OF OTHER SIMILAR STRUCTURES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE SURROUNDING DISTRICT, UM, I BELIEVE ALSO ON THE SAME STREET. UM, I KNOW THAT SHE DOES HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THIS REQUESTED STRUCTURE AT A DISCOUNTED PRICE. THANK YOU. MAYBE WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT CASE AND COME BACK TO THIS ONE IF YOU GET THE APPLICANT ON THERE. YES, LET'S DO THAT. DO. OKAY. SO MOVING ON TO ITEM 21. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 21 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 6 3 3. CAN YOU HEAR ME? OH, . OH YES, YES. SO I HOLD THE SPACE DOWN. IT SAYS I'M UNMUTED. YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. SO LET'S, LET'S GO BACK TO ITEM 20. YES MA'AM. WOULD YOU LIKE TO PRESENT YOUR CASE OR COMMENT ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS? MS. HARDY? THERE YOU GO. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU DID. I DON'T ON ME , MS. HARDY, ARE YOU THERE? OKAY, MS. HARDY, WE COULD HEAR YOU, BUT NOW WE CAN'T, WE DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A DELAY OR NOT. WE'RE GONNA TRY TO CALL YOU TO CLEAR THIS UP, BUT IN THE MEANTIME WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. ITEM 21 IF YOU DON'T MIND. HELLO? OKAY, MS. HARDY, ARE YOU THERE? WE HEAR YOU OR YOU'RE NOT HEARING US AT ALL? NO. LET'S WORK OUT THE AUDIO DIFFICULTIES WITH WEST SUMMER. LET'S MOVE ON TO CROFTON PLEASE. OKAY. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 21 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 6 3 3 1 30 CROFTON. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE THE EXISTING RIBBON DRIVEWAY WITH A FULLY CONCRETE DRIVEWAY. TWO, REPLACE THE EXISTING CHAINLINK DRIVEWAY GATE WITH A NEW WOOD DRIVEWAY GATE ALIGNED WITH THE FRONT FACADE WALL PLANE. AND THREE, REPLACE THE EXISTING SHED WITH A NEW 122 SQUARE FOOT SHED. ITEM ONE, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE DRIVEWAY MODIFICATION BASED ON FINDING B. THE REPLACEMENT OF THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY TO MATCH THE EXISTING CONFIGURATION IS ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. ITEM TWO, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE DRIVEWAY GATE REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDING C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A FULLY WOOD OR METAL DRIVEWAY GATE AND FENCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT FINAL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE DRIVEWAY, GATE AND FENCE TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS THE DRIVEWAY, GATE AND FENCE BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE WALL PLANE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT AN UPDATED SITE PLAN TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND THREE, THE FINAL THAT THE FINAL CONSTRUCTION HEIGHT OF THE APPROVED DRIVEWAY GATE MAY NOT EXCEED A MAXIMUM OF HEIGHT OF FOUR FEET AS APPROVED BY THE H D R C AT ANY PORTION OF THE FENCE. ADDITIONALLY, GATES AND FENCING MUST BE PERMITTED AND MEET THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OUTLINED IN U D C SECTION 35 DASH FIVE 14. ITEM THREE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REAR SHED REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE WINDOWS AND DOORS IN THE PROPOSED REAR ACCESS REAR SHED DO NOT FEATURE WINDOW GRILLS OR FAUX DIVIDED LIGHTS. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS THE PROPOSED ROOFING MATERIAL TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT MEETS ALL SETBACK STANDARDS AS REQUIRED BY THE CITY'S ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAINS A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. UM, THERE IS A LETTER IN YOUR FOLDERS FOR THIS REQUEST AND THE APPLICANT, ANN GAINOR IS WITH US VIRTUALLY ANN GAINOR. UM, IS IT, HAVE YOU MS. GAINOR, ARE YOU THERE? YES. HELLO. HELLO, THIS IS ANN GAINOR AT ONE 30 CROFTON AVENUE. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN. IF, IF YOU HAVE A MICROPHONE, TRY TO LEAN IN A LITTLE CLOSER TO IT SO WE CAN HEAR YOU BETTER. [02:45:01] UM, BUT WE CAN HEAR YOU. YES. OKAY, GOOD. UH, ANN GAINOR, THE OWNER OF ONE 30 CROFTON AVENUE. THANK YOU ALL. I APPRECIATE IT. I CONTEST TO ITEM TWO AND THREE BY ALL OF, UM, REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU HAVE REQUESTED. UH, AS FOR ITEM ONE RIGHT AWAY, MS. GAINER, CAN YOU MUCH TRY SPEAKING UP JUST A LITTLE MORE? UM, YOU'RE SURE. THANK YOU. I DO, I DO SPEAK SOFTLY TO BEGIN WITH, SO SORRY. YES. UM, ITEM ONE, THE DRIVEWAY, UH, IT'S A RIBBON DRIVEWAY, BUT IT'S NOT A FULLY, UH, CONVENTIONAL. IT'S MISSING A LOT OF THE RIBBON. I INHERITED THIS, I BOUGHT THE HOUSE ABOUT A YEAR AGO AND THE HOUSE HAS BEEN RENOVATED INSIDE AND, UM, THERE'S ONLY PART OF A RIBBON DRIVEWAY THERE. SO FOR ME TO REPLACE WHAT'S NOT THERE IS KIND OF IMPOSSIBLE. I'D HAVE TO PUT IN SOMETHING NEW ANYWAY. UM, ALSO FOR A RIBBON DRIVEWAY, UH, WHEN YOU GET OUT OF THE CAR, YOU'RE STEPPING INTO MUD, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S WET AND, UM, IT'S JUST NOT APPROPRIATE AT ALL. UM, I DON'T USE IT. I'M ON THE SIDE OF THE STREET RIGHT NOW. I HAVE A CARPORT. I HAVE A SIDE ENTRANCE TO THE HOUSE FROM THE CARPORT. IT WOULD BE REALLY IDEAL IF I COULD USE THAT ENTRANCE INTO THE, UM, HOUSE FROM THE CARPORT SO I DON'T HAVE TO BE GO GOING AROUND THE HOUSE WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN AND PACKAGES AND WHAT HAVE YOU. DELIVERIES. SO TO DO A, UH, CEMENT DRIVEWAY, I MEAN, IT'S 10 FEET WIDE. IT'S NOT OUT OF LINE AS FAR AS AESTHETICS WITH THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE IS A SIDEWALK THAT IS CEMENTED. I HAVE A WALKWAY UP TO MY HOUSE, WHICH IS CEMENTED OR CONCRETE RATHER, AND IT JUST WOULDN'T BE OUTTA LINE. I KNOW THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY IS OLD, BUT IT'S ONLY PART OF ONE THAT'S THERE. IT'S NOT EVEN, IT'S MOSTLY GONE. SO I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD CONSIDER A FULL CONCRETE DRIVEWAY. MR. CHAIR? YES, MA'AM. UM, MS. GAINOR, UM, WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO ITEMS? ARE YOU MM-HMM WILLING TO COMPLY WITH THE STIPULATION? ABSOLUTELY, YES, A HUNDRED PERCENT. SO WE'RE BASICALLY DOWN TO THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. SO I MEAN, YES, THE GUIDELINES ARE ADAMANT ABOUT WHERE THERE WAS A RIBBON DRIVEWAY IS REPLACING WITH A RIBBON DRIVEWAY. SO IT'S NOT LIKE ASKING YOU TO ONLY PUT NEW RIBBON WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY, BUT SOME, AND I'LL WAIT TO HEAR FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS, BUT IN SOME CASES WHAT WE'VE DONE IS YOU PUT DOWN THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY, YOU GET IT ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED, AND THEN KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE ADD SOMETHING THAT'S, UM, KIND OF MAYBE MIMICS THE FULL DRIVEWAY, BUT IT'S REMOVABLE. SO THAT'S JUST A, MAYBE A SUGGESTION WE CAN FURTHER DISCUSS. AND IF THERE'S HEAVY VEHICLES DRIVING IN THERE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S REMOVABLE WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE. IT'S REALLY TO, IF YOU DO IS A CONCRETE, UM, IT, IT WOULD BE A REBAR CONCRETE, THE SAME AS WHAT I WOULD DO FOR THE SIDEWALK AND THE CURB. WELL, THE CURB, NOT CURB IS JUST DOES CEMENT. BUT, UM, I'M GONNA REDO THE SIDEWALK AS WELL. SO WHILE I'M AT IT, UM, 'CAUSE IT'S CRACKED AND IT'S UNEVEN, BUT IF I DO SOMETHING THAT'S REMOVABLE FOR A DRIVEWAY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO DRIVE ANYTHING TOO HEAVY ON IT. JUST A VERY LIGHT CAR. SOMETIMES THERE'S TRUCKS, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE QUITE HEAVY DRIVING UP INTO THE DRIVEWAY. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THANK YOU. UM, I THINK WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING THOUGH IS IN WHAT STAFF IS PROPOSING, IT WOULD BE A REINFORCED CONCRETE DRIVEN DRIVEWAY AND THE VEHICLES AREN'T GONNA BE DRIVING OFF OF THOSE. IT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO SUPPORT EVEN HEAVY VEHICLES. AND I THINK WHAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER WAS DISCUSSING IS THAT YOU COULD PUT A MORE PERVIOUS MATERIAL BETWEEN RIBBONS. GOT IT. UH, AND, AND A FINAL THING IS JUST A CLARIFICATION, UH, FROM STAFF, UH, THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT OF THE SIDEWALK, ISN'T THAT OUT IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY? AND ISN'T THAT SOMETHING THAT PUBLIC WORKS WOULD BE DEALING? NO. COMMON MISCONCEPTION? NO. I'M RESPONSIBLE, I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SIDEWALK. MR. COMMISSIONER, I JUST HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT. RIBBON DRIVEWAY, I THINK THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR MOTORIZED CART. MOTORIZED BUGGIES. I MEAN, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THE MODEL T MODEL A TYPE, UH, RIBBON DRIVEWAYS NOT, NOT APPROPRIATE FOR ANY MODERN VEHICLES. I'D I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE. THERE ARE MODERN RIBBON DRIVEWAYS, THEY'RE, UH, SUFFICIENTLY REINFORCED AND IN THE DEPTH THAT WOULD SUPPORT MODERN VEHICLES. AND WE'VE SEEN IT. DO YOU SUGGEST I WOULD PUT THEN [02:50:01] TO THE SIDE OF THE RIBBON WHEN I STEP UP AND I'M NOT STANDING INTO, UH, SOIL? MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. UM, IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT A GOOGLE MAP OF, UH, THE ELEVATION, THE NEIGHBOR DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT OF THIS HOUSE HAS A SOLID CONCRETE DRIVEWAY. YES. SO THERE, THERE'S BEEN OBVIOUSLY ALTERATIONS THROUGHOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO ACCOMMODATE SOMETHING. I I, I, I APPRECIATE THE, THE COMMISSIONER COMMENTS WITH RESPECT TO, UH, YOU KNOW, THE INTEGRITY OF, UH, THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. AND IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S NICE. UM, BUT I, I THINK THAT, UM, THERE'S SOME VARIATION IN THE COMMUNITY, SOME THINGS THAT, THAT ALTERATIONS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DONE THAT, THAT, TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE THAT YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE HOUSE, BUT TO THE, THE PINK HOUSE. IF YOU GO TO THE PINK HOUSE, UH, THAT IT, IT WORKS AS WELL. UH, THE, UH, APPLICANT MAKES A A GOOD POINT. I MEAN, IT'S MUCH LIKE, SAY FOR INSTANCE THE, THE RECOGNITION OF, UH, SOLAR PANELS, RIGHT? WE'RE BEING TOLD THAT, HEY, WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE SOME CHANGE. RIGHT. WELL, WITH RESPECT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, THE PATTERN IN THE COMMUNITY, THE PROPERTY DIRECTLY NEXT DOOR IS ENJOYING A PARTICULAR RIGHT. THIS IS A RIBBON DRIVEWAY THAT IS BROKEN, UH, SUNKEN. UH, IT'S, IT'S GOT ISSUES AND SHE'S GONNA HAVE TO REPLACE IT. AND THE PATTERN IN THAT COMMUNITY, THE RIGHTS THAT ARE SHARED, INFORM THAT PERHAPS THIS APPLICANT SHOULD SHARE THE SAME RIGHTS AS THE NEIGHBOR. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRS MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU. UH, OTHER COMMENTS BY THE COMMISSION, IF NOBODY ELSE WILL SAY, I WOULD JUST CONTINUE ON THAT. UM, IT SEEMS THAT IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, THE FULL CONCRETE DRIVEWAYS ARE RELATED TO, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGER HOMES. UH, SO THE HOME THAT COMMISSIONER QUEZ RELATED TO, TO THE RIGHT HAS A FULL DRIVEWAY AND THEN THE PROPERTY TO THE LEFT DOES NOT HAS GRAVEL. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF I GO THAT WAY. I, I FEEL LIKE THE KING WILLIAM IS, I WOULD SAY IT'S AN IMPORTANT HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IT'S ALSO A VERY ACTIVE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND I ALSO NEED, I THINK I, WE ALWAYS TAKE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMENTS INTO CONSIDERATION AND, AND, AND I FEEL LIKE THERE'S SOLUTIONS HERE WITHOUT, UM, I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE PROPERTIES ACROSS THE STREET, ALL GRAVEL. SO, UM, MAYBE WHAT WE COULD DO IS, IT SOUNDED FROM MS. GAINERS IS THERE COULD BE AN OPTION TO CREATE A CONCRETE, UH, PAD PAD WHERE THE CARPORT IS SO THAT THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY KIND OF ENDS IN THAT CONCRETE PAD UNDERNEATH THE CARDBOARD. 'CAUSE I THINK THE CARPORT IS, IS PART OF THE HOUSE, RIGHT? IT'S NOT ADDED, I MEAN, IT'S NOT DETACHED. IT IS ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD PROBABLY SUGGEST. UM, THE RIBBON DRIVEWAYS, I WOULD, I'M, I'M NOT SUGGESTING REPAIRING THAT ONE. I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, FULL RENEW, ONE WITH REBORN CONCRETE THAT CAN WITHHOLD BIG TRUCKS. ANYTHING YOU WANT. WE'VE SEEN IT MANY TIMES. WE SEE IT A LOT. AND I THINK IN THE KING WILLIAM, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE A LOT, IS KEEP THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. 'CAUSE HISTORICALLY THERE WAS A RIBBON DRIVEWAY PUT ON SOME, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE IF THAT'S A WORRY. AND THEN MAYBE WHAT WE COULD DO IS A CONCRETE, UH, PAD UNDERNEATH THE CARPORT. AND IN TERMS OF, UH, CONCERN ABOUT STEPPING OUT OF THE CAR WHEN YOU'RE PARKED ON THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY ONTO, UH, POSSIBLY, UH, WET OR MUDDY GROUND, UH, IT COULD, UH, POTENTIALLY HAVE PAVERS OR SOMETHING TO JUST HAVE A LITTLE LANDING WHERE, UH, YOU STOP YOUR CAR AND STEP OUT ONTO A, A HARD SURFACE. WELL, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CONTROL. SHE CAN PUT PAVERS WHEREVER SHE WANTS. RIGHT. SO IN TERMS OF IF STUFF, HOW DO, IF WE DENY THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY, WOULD SHE HAVE TO BE, COME BACK FOR THE CONCRETE, UH, PAD UNDERNEATH THE CARPORT? DOES THAT HAVE TO BE PART OF A MOTION OR JUST SOMETHING EXTREMELY, I'M ASSUMING IT'S A MYSTERY, BUT I'M JUST ASKING MR. MR. CHAIRMAN, DO YOU NEED ME TO SUBMIT PHOTOGRAPHS OF ALL OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD? BECAUSE 95% ARE CONCRETE. I THINK THERE'S MAYBE TWO THAT ARE GRAVEL. MR. CHAIR, I, I, UM, YES, SIR, OBVIOUSLY DISAGREE, RIGHT? WITH THE CONVERSATION, BUT WHAT, WHAT I, WHAT I, UH, I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE IDEA THAT, UH, WE WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO HAVE A RIBBON DRIVEWAY, RIGHT. IN ANY CONDITION. 'CAUSE WE HAVE THIS CON THIS [02:55:01] CONVERSATION OVER AND OVER. I'M ALWAYS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH IT. I JUST WANNA VOICE THAT THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD SAY, WE CAN GO WITH A RIBBON DRIVEWAY BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WAS THERE. AND THEN YOU COULD JUST FILL IN THE MIDDLE. YOU COULD JUST FILL IN THE MIDDLE IS IS KIND OF LIKE THAT JOKE WHERE THE GUY TELLS US, TAYLOR, HEY, MY, MY SLEEVE IS TOO LONG. AND THE TAYLOR SAYS, WELL MOVE YOUR ARM UP. UM, THAT THERE'S A SOLUTION THAT IS USED THAT, THAT IS A SOLUTION, RIGHT? WHERE SHE GETS A FULL CONCRETE DRIVEWAY, BUT PERHAPS THE CENTER PORTION OF THE DRIVEWAY IS INDENTED SO AS TO RECEIVE A BRICK PAVER. AND IT COULD BE AN AGGREGATE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A BRICK PAVER. IT COULD BE ANY MATERIAL THAT THE COMMISSION FEELS IS APPROPRIATE, BUT THAT THE PATTERN IS, UH, REVIVED, RIGHT? THAT THERE IS A RIBBON, AN OBVIOUS RIBBON, BUT IN THE WAY THAT DOWNTOWN THAT THEY DO PAVERS WHERE THEY CREATE THE INDENTIONS, AND THEN IN THE CONCRETE, IT'S ACTUALLY A SOLID CONCRETE PAD, BUT THE INDENTION ACCOMMODATES A PAVER SO THAT IT'S FLAT AND YOU RETAIN THE SHADOW OF WHAT WOULD BE HISTORIC. AND AT THE SAME TIME, SHE GAINS THE SECURITY THAT SHE'S LOOKING FOR BECAUSE THE, THE AREA, YOU KNOW, I JUST LOOKED AT THAT ONE. BUT IF YOU GO DOWN THE STREET, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A COMMON PATTERN THAT PEOPLE HAVE REPLACED THESE RIBBON PATTERNS. BUT I, I HOLD, UM, UH, VERY, UH, DEEP RESPECT THE COMMENTS THAT FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HAVE MADE ABOUT THE AESTHETIC. AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAINTAIN THAT PATTERN, RIGHT? THAT VISIBLE PATTERN THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE. UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR IT TO BE, UH, DISCUSSED IN THE MANNER AS TO RIBBON RIBBON AND THEN YOU FILL IT IN WITH WHATEVER, IT, IT REALLY SHOULD BE AN ARCHITECTURAL SOLUTION. AND IN THIS CASE, I THINK IT GIVES A, UH, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THAT SOLUTION TO SATISFY WHAT THIS APPLICANT IS ABSOLUTELY TRYING TO ACHIEVE, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME RESPECTING THE HISTORIC PATTERN OF THE RIBBON, WHICH I THINK MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ARE TRYING TO ACHIEVE. UM, BECAUSE I DO THINK, I MEAN, AND, AND I, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THE AGREEMENT ABOUT, UH, THE, THE, UH, REINFORCED STEEL AND THE RIBBON BEING ABLE TO, TO HANDLE VEHICLES. BUT IT IS COMING FROM A TIME WHERE CARS WERE SHAPED VERY DIFFERENTLY AND PEOPLE BEHAVE VERY DIFFERENTLY. AND PERHAPS THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, TO SPECIFY WHAT WOULD BE APPROVED IN THE CONTEXT OF A FULL CONCRETE PAD WITH, UM, UH, THE, THE, UM, THE APPLICATION OF A, OF AN IN, OF AN INDENTED, UM, UM, BRICK PAVER PATTERN. IN WHICH CASE THE APPLICANT SHOULD KNOW THAT IT'S PROBABLY GONNA COST A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY. BUT YOU'LL PROBABLY LIKE IT MORE IF, IF, IF IT'S AFFORDABLE. THAT IS. THANK YOU. IS THAT A MOTION? YES, SIR. THAT'S A MOTION. SECOND. A MOTION, UH, A SECOND. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE A VISUALLY, LET ME SEE IF I CAN RESTATE THIS. A WHAT APPEARS TO BE A RIBBON DRIVEWAY WITH THE CENTER ALSO INTEGRAL WITH THE CONCRETE OF THE RIBBONS REINFORCED THAT WOULD HAVE INSET PAVERS SO THAT THE APPEARANCE OF A CONCRETE RIBBON DRIVE, UH, WAY IS MAINTAINED. YES. AND CAN WE ALSO ADDRESS ITEM TWO AND THREE AND ITEM TWO WITH, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION SINCE SHE WAS IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT, WITH WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS? YES. OKAY. COMMISSIONERS, WERE LOOKING AT ME. I, I UNDERSTAND THE MOTION AND I DO FEEL LIKE THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER PLACES. I CAN'T THINK OF ONE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE, BUT I I KNOW IT IS ACHIEVABLE. YES, I KNOW WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS IN THE PAST, SO YOU'RE GOOD WITH THE MOTION. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? UM, MR. CHAIR? YES MA'AM. UM, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS MY CONCERN OF AN INSET MATERIAL INTO THE CONCRETE DEPRESSION AS MAYBE HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF INAUTHENTICITY, UM, RATHER THAN HAVING THE ACTUAL RIBBONS POURED SEPARATELY AND THEN PAVER INSERTED. UM, SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE METHOD, THE TECHNOLOGY, THE MEANS BY WHICH THIS IS ACHIEVED. AND I THINK AUTHENTICITY IS VERY IMPORTANT IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? NAY. THIS IS ABSENT. UM, SINO NAY VELAZQUEZ AYE. LES ABSENT MASUKA AYE. CARPENTER NAY. GRO NAY ANTE? YES. [03:00:04] FETZER NAY. AND DID LA PHONE LEAVE? NAYYY STILL PRESENT? THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING WE COULDN'T SEE YOU. AND MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. DO WE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, MR. CHAIR, THAT SHE BE ALLOWED, THAT I MAKE A MOTION THAT, THAT, UH, THE, UM, UM, THE APPLICATION IS, IS APPROVED, UM, MINUS I, THAT IT'S JUST FULL CONCRETE AS, UH, REQUESTED BY THE APPLICANT MEANS TWO AND THREE WOULD STAFF STIPULATIONS. DO WE HAVE A SECOND FOR THIS MOTION? I WANNA UNDERSTAND THIS, RIGHT? YES. SO THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS NOT IS JUST THE INDENTION. I MEAN, HE'S THE SAME FULL CONCRETE AS REQUESTED, CORRECT? YES. FULL CONCRETE. JUST LIKE NEXT DOOR. I SECOND YOU HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS NAY FISH'S ABSENT NAYYY, UM, VELAZQUEZ AYE. ABSENT MCA CARPENTER. NAYYY GROUP. NAY ANTE? YES, BUT SIR NAY AND UNE NAYYY MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. WE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION. OKAY, I'M GONNA SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING. LET'S, UH, HAVE THE APPLICANT, CAN I MOVE THIS ITEM ONE TO D R C SITE VISIT AND APPROVE THE OTHER ITEMS? YES, YOU CAN PICK OUT CERTAIN ITEMS. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR AT THE SITE VISIT? WELL, THE APPLICANT IS CLAIMING THAT IN 90% OF OUR HOUSES HAVE CONCRETE GOOGLE SHOWS SOMETHING ELSE. I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, IT'S NOT ANY HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD, SO I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE'LL PASS HERE. I MEAN, THE OTHER CHOICE IS THAT SHE JUST WITHDRAWS BECAUSE IF WE DIDN'T, THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY CAN JUST BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED, RIGHT? YEAH. I MEAN, YOU COULD TAKE ACTION TO DENY OR SHE CAN REMOVE ITEM NUMBER, GO ONE AND COME BACK WITH ANOTHER SOLUTION, RIGHT? OR THERE COULD BE A MOTION FOR RIBBONS WITH A SUGGESTION OF THE ADDED PAVERS, NOT WITH THE, YOU KNOW, CONTINUOUS REINFORCED CONCRETE TROUGH OR , WHATEVER WAS DESCRIBED EARLIER. BUT A VIRGIN. I, SO I'LL, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A CONSENSUS HERE, AND SO I DON'T WANT TO NECESSARILY DELAY THIS FOR A MONTH IF THERE COULD A DIRECTION TODAY. SO LET ME ATTEMPT ONE. UH, AND WE DO THIS ALL THE TIME. I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS, IS, I GUESS THAT'S WHAT'S GOT MY BRISTLES UP, IS WHEN WE'RE, WHEN SOMEONE SAYS, OH, IT CAN'T BE DONE, IT'S LIKE, WE WOULD DO THIS ALL THE TIME. SO, UM, A MOVE FOR APPROVAL ITEM ONE, UH, WITH A STIPULATION THAT IT BE, UH, A RIBBON DRIVEWAY, NEW REPLACEMENT RIBBON DRIVEWAY UP TO THE POINT WHERE IT TERMINATES, AND THEN IT'S A SOLID DRIVE, UH, AS A PARKING PAD UNDERNEATH THE PARKING STRUCTURE AND APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO AND THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. THE, UH, APPLICANT CAN WORK WITH STAFF ON ANY INFILL MATERIALS SUCH AS PAVERS, UH, GRAVEL, OR WHATEVER MATERIAL THEY WANT TO PUT IN BETWEEN THE, UM, THE, THE RIBBON SECTION OF THE DRIVEWAY, UH, FOR, FOR STAFF APPROVAL. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND WE HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE COMMENT OR TWO COMMENTS, RIGHT? ONE, ONE COMMENT. I JUST WANNA MAKE, MAKE CLEAR THAT, UH, STABILITY WITH RESPECT TO THE HORIZONTAL CONCRETE, UH, PLATFORM OR, OR, UM, DRIVEWAY IS THAT THAT'S WHY DO IT, UH, AS ONE PIECE WITH AN INSET. UM, BUT SECONDLY, I, I, I THINK IT STRIKES AT THE INTEGRITY OF, OF, UM, THE, THE YOU, THE ARCHITECTURAL REALITY THAT SOMEHOW THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY IS, UH, UH, MAINTAINS ITS INTEGRITY. IF WE JUST TAKE OUT WHAT WAS IN THE MIDDLE THAT MAKES IT A RIBBON AND FILL IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE TO, TO ME IT'S JUST NOT, IT'S, MAYBE WE DO IT ALL THE TIME, BUT IT'S JUST KIND OF A BAD HABIT, I THINK. AND IT BEGS THAT WE, THAT WE, UH, CONSIDER, UH, UH, UH, A FUNCTIONAL ALTERNATE, BUT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THE NEIGHBOR HAS A DRIVEWAY JUST LIKE THAT, IT'S VERY HARD FOR A PERSON TO LIVE IN THAT HOUSE AND LOOK NEXT DOOR AND SAY, HOW COME [03:05:01] THEY HAVE THAT? AND I'M OVER HERE. AND IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM FAIR AND IT SEEMS CHALLENGABLE AT EVERY LEVEL. SO IT'S, UH, NOT DEFENSIBLE, SO TO SPEAK. OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? MR. CHAIR? I JUST HAVE A QUESTION FOR COMMISSIONER. CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU, YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT? SURE. I'LL RESTATE THE, THE MOTION FOR CLARITY. UM, APPROVE ITEM ONE WITH A STIPULATION THAT THE DRIVE, THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY BE REPLACED WITH A NEW RIBBON DRIVEWAY UP TO THE POINT WHERE IT TERMINATES AND THEN EXTEND WITH A FULL DRIVE TO FORM A PARKING PAD UNDERNEATH THE PARKING AREA. APPLICANT IS TO WORK WITH STAFF IF THEY CHOOSE TO HAVE AN INFILL MATERIAL SUCH AS PAVERS, GRAVEL, OR WHATEVER OTHER, UH, APPROPRIATE ITEM THEY WANT TO PRESENT TO STAFF FOR APPROVAL. AND THEN APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO AND THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE. VICIOUS ABSENT SINA. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. AR ABSENT? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP? AYE. CERVANTES? YES, THAT SIR. AYE. AND UNE AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU MS. HARDY. I SEE YOU'RE UNMUTED. ARE YOU, ARE YOU WITH US? ARE OKAY, MS. HARDY, ARE YOU THERE? MR. CHAIR? IN THE, IN THE INTERIM, I, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF A QUESTION ABOUT THE METAL STRUCTURE. IT, IT SEEMS THAT THE METAL STRUCTURE IS, UH, SMALLER THAN WHAT WAS THERE PREVIOUSLY AND, AND THAT IT'S NOT A, A STRUCTURE THAT IS IN A FOUNDATION. IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ONE OF THOSE METAL FLOATING STRUCTURES. UH, IS THAT TRUE? IS IT, IT'S A LIKE BOLTED DOWN KIND OF METAL STRUCTURE? UH, YES. SO THE PARKING PAD HAS ALREADY BEEN REPLACED. UM, SO THAT FOUNDATIONAL STRUCTURE IS EXISTING CURRENTLY, SO THE APPLICANT MAY BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO HOW THAT WILL BE SECURED TO THE SITE. UM, AND IT IS A BIT SMALLER THAN THE ORIGINAL FOOTPRINT, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE AERIAL. THAT WAS QUITE LARGE. BUT YES, I, I MEAN IT'S A PREFAB METAL STRUCTURE AND I THINK THAT'S HOW IT'S SECURED IS IT'S BOLTED INTO THE CONCRETE. YES. YES. MS. HARDY, YOU'RE THERE. OH, GOOD. . SO MAY I SPEAK? YES, MA'AM. PLEASE PROCEED. OKAY. UM, I'VE BEEN PLANNING THIS, UH, UH, I ORIGINALLY GOT PR UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROVAL FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE GARAGE, WHICH WAS BUILT DURING THE WAR AND THERE WAS NO REBAR IN THE FOUNDATION. AND SO THE DRIVEWAY AND THE STRUCTURE HAS JUST CRUMBLED INTO THE GROUND, SO IT LOOKS MUCH SHORTER NOW. UH, SO WE HAD THAT DEMOED. WE HAD THE A SEPARATE C O A FOR THE DRIVEWAY, UH, HAD THAT REPLACED WITH THE EXACT SAME FOOTPRINT. AND, UM, WE HAD A SITE VISIT BY RACHEL AND THE NEW STRUCTURE IS, UH, ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME BECAUSE THERE WAS A STRUCTURE THERE, BUT THEN THERE WAS AN OLD FOUNDATION THAT WAS A LITTLE LARGER THAT WAS FROM PREVIOUSLY. AND, UH, OUR GOAL WAS TO MAKE THE STRUCTURE LOOK SIMILAR FROM THE STREET. SO IT HAS THE SAME PITCHED ROOF, IT HAS THE SAME GABLE IN THE FRONT, UH, IT HAS A METAL, UH, A ROOF BECAUSE THE, MY HOUSE AND THE OLD GARAGE BOTH HAD A METAL ROOF. UM, WE LOOKED AT WOOD, BUT AFTER THE PANDEMIC IT'S JUST BEEN SO COST PROHIBITIVE AND WE REALLY LIKE METAL. AND THE METAL. SO THE HOUSE, MY, MY HOUSE IS MADE OF A SLATE, TEXTURED SIDING. SO AGAIN, WE TRIED TO MAKE THE STRUCTURES LOOK VERY SIMILAR AND WE CHOSE METAL BECAUSE IT'S DURABLE FIRE RETARDANT, UM, MORE SECURE, HARDER TO KICK IN A METAL DOOR THAN A WOODEN ONE. IT'S LESS PROBLEM FOR PEST, IT'S ENVIRONMENTAL FRIENDLY BECAUSE METAL IS RECYCLED. WOOD COMES FROM VIRGIN [03:10:01] WOOD IS VIRGIN WOOD FOR CONSTRUCTION. UH, WOOD HAS TO BE PAINTED ABOUT EVERY THREE YEARS SUBJECT TO ROT. AND THEN OF COURSE THE COST OF WOOD HAS GOTTEN SO HARD, DIFF SO EXPENSIVE THAT IT'S COST PROHIBITIVE. SO AGAIN, THE GOAL IS TO MAKE IT LOOK THE SAME FROM THE STREET. OKAY. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS? THERE WAS A LETTER OF SUPPORT IN THE LETTERS FOLDER. UM, BUT NO OTHER COMMENTS. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? MR. CHAIR? YES, MS. GROUP. UM, SO MS. HARDY, YOU'RE LIKE 50 HOUSES AWAY FROM WHERE I LIVE, SO, UM, UH, HI . NICE TO MEET YOU. NICE TO MEET YOU. AND THE PICTURES CURRENTLY ON THE SCREEN WAS RACHEL SUGGESTED WITHIN THREE STREETS OF MY HOUSE ARE VERY MINI SIMILAR STRUCTURES. IS THIS A PREFABRICATED STRUCTURE? UH, WELL, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD IT ON SITE. IS IT LIKE ONE OF THOSE THAT YOU BUY WHERE, LIKE THE MEASUREMENTS OR IS IT LIKE PRE, IS IT, YOU KNOW, CUSTOM MADE FOR YOU? IT'S CUSTOM MADE FOR ME, BUT IT'S BECAUSE OF THE SIZE. BUT THERE ARE VERY SIMILAR ONES THAT YOU CAN GET, BUT IT'S GONNA BE, LET'S GO BACK TO THE PICTURE. SO PICTURE 15, PAGE 15, THAT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, PREFABRICATED STRUCTURES THAT JUST LIKE A CARPORT LIKE THAT DOESN'T HAVE A STRUCTURE IN THE BACK. RIGHT. IT DOESN'T HAVE LIKE A STORAGE ROOM OR ANYTHING. YES, IT'S HAVE, IF YOU CAN SEE THE SIDE, ONE PART OF IT IS, UH, 15 FEET DEEP IS, UH, LIKE A LITTLE GARAGE. AND I HAD ONE PICTURE THAT I SHOWED THAT IF YOU LOOKED AT THIS SIDE PICTURE OF THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE COMPARED TO THE SIDE STRUCTURE OF THE OLD STRUCTURE, THEY LOOKED ALMOST, I, THEY LOOKED ALMOST IDENTICAL. SO WHAT I'M TORN ABOUT, AND THEN LET ME FINISH THE OTHER PICTURES. 16, 17, AND 18, UM, THEY LOOK SIMILAR IN WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACHIEVE IN SIZE. YEAH, BUT THEY'RE ALL WOOD AND, UH, I HAVE NO INCONVENIENCE WITH A METAL ROOF. BUT THE ONLY THING THAT'S KIND OF WHAT, UM, SO THE GUIDELINES AND KIND OF WHAT WE LOOK AT IS, YOU KNOW, YOU KIND OF USE MATERIAL SIMILAR TO THE HOUSE AND WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, SLATE SHINGLE. BUT MOST ACCESSORY STRUCTURES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD GARAGES, THEY DO HAVE, UM, A WOOD SIDING. SO, I MEAN, I, I DO FEEL LIKE SOME OF THESE, UM, STIPULATIONS THAT STAFF HAS IN THE APPLICATION, I THINK THEY GOT IT RIGHT. UM, I THINK THERE'S WAYS OF, LIKE YOU SAID, IN MAINTENANCE OF IT. UM, I THINK YOU'LL, I MEAN, I, I THINK YOU'LL FIND IT'S NOT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ENOUGH FOR ME TO ACCEPT, UM, THE KIND OF PROPOSAL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TODAY. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, YEAH, I, I HAVE TO CONCUR WITH, UH, MY FELLOW, FELLOW COMMISSIONER, UM, WHILE THE, THE OBJECTIVE WAS TO TRY TO, UH, KIND OF MIMIC WHAT'S THERE. THE, THE EFFECT IS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS CLOSER TO, UH, A PREFABRICATED STRUCTURE LIKE YOU'D SEE IN A MORE RURAL SETTING, YOU KNOW, LIKE A UTILITY SHED OR A PLACE TO PARK A, YOU KNOW, A PICKUP UNDER OR A TRACTOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT COMING OFF. AND THAT'S PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE THINNESS OF THE COLUMNS, I THINK. AND, UM, AND IT, IT HAS A LITTLE BIT OF AN INSUBSTANTIAL, UH, ASPECT TO IT BECAUSE OF THE, THE THICKNESS OF THE, UH, THE FASCIA BOARD AND SOME OTHER ELEMENTS LIKE THAT. THERE'S NOT REALLY AN EXPRESSED BEAMS OR, UH, SO IT, IT HAS A LIGHTNESS AND KIND OF A MORE OF A PREFAB APPEARANCE TO IT. SO I, I THINK AS IT IS CONCEIVED OF HERE, IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE. I THINK THE, THE REQUEST TO REPLACE SOMETHING BACK THERE THAT MIMICS VERY CLOSELY THE, THE MASSING AND THE CHARACTER OF WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE IS, IS WELL MOTIVATED. I JUST DON'T THINK THIS IS, UH, IS A WELL EXECUTED PROPOSAL YET. MS. HARDY, WOULD YOU BE CONSIDERED TO LIKE, UM, MAYBE LET'S DISCUSS IDEAS ON A D R C OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO WITHDRAW OR WOULD YOU LIKE FOR US TO MOVE ON WITH A VOTE? BASED ON THE COMMENTS? UH, I WOULD PREFER YOU TO GIVE SUGGESTIONS OF WHAT I CAN DO TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE OR, YEAH. SO I'LL MOVE THIS TO A D R C. I THINK WE CAN COME TO DOWN [03:15:01] TO A SOLUTION, UH, TALKING MORE IN DEPTH, UM, WITH MS. HARDY. I, SECOND, SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO D R C. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE, MR. CHAIR? I'D JUST LIKE TO, TO TO KIND OF MAKE A, AN, UM, NOTE TO THE, THE REQUEST. I THINK THE PROBLEM, PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT'S AN APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE SAME THING AS A SHED OR A, OR, UM, A PREFABRICATED ROOF COVER IT. THE, THE, THE THING THAT DOESN'T GIVE ME HESITATION IN, IN SAY, JUST SAY CONSIDERING APPROVING IT HAS SUBMITTED, IS THAT IF IT'S SOME KIND OF A PROTECT PROTECTED PREFABRICATED, UH, THAT'S NOT IN A FOUNDATION, BUT IT'S JUST SECURED TO A CONCRETE SLAB THAT IT'S TEMPORARY IN NATURE, IT'S NOT A THREAT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, AND SOLVES A PROBLEM, PARTICULARLY IF IT'S SOLVING LIKE HAIL, RIGHT? LIKE THE THREAT OF HAIL DAMAGE. SO I WONDER IF THE APPLICANT HADN'T COME IN WITH AN APPLICATION, UH, CHARACTERIZED DIFFERENTLY THAT IT MIGHT HAVE GONE, UH, DIFFERENTLY WITH RESPECT TO THE VOTE. UH, JUST KIND OF FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR THE APPLICANT IN CASE THE APPLICANT THINKS OF, UH, CAN YOU EXPLAIN SENDING HER VOTE, I MEAN HER APPLICATION. COULD YOU EXPLAIN THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE? WELL, I, I JUST, YOU KNOW, IN, IN A LOT OF CASES IT'S, SO MUCH OF DECISIONS DEPEND ON HOW YOU CHARACTERIZE YOUR APPLICATION AND AS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, TO ME, I HEAR SOMETHING THAT IS A, A PERMANENT STRUCTURE. THAT IS, IT, IT IT'S INTEGRAL WITH THE FOUNDATION. TO ME, THIS, THIS, UH, APPLICATION LOOKS LIKE WHAT IT IS, IS THAT YOU DID A DRIVEWAY AND YOU WANT TO PUT A TEMPORARY STRUCTURE ON TOP OF THAT DRIVEWAY TO MITIGATE WHATEVER CONCERNS YOU HAVE, WHETHER IT'S, UH, UH, OUTDOOR STORAGE OR THE THREAT OF, UH, WEATHER. AND IN WHICH CASE TO IT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT COULD BE JUDGED NOT AS A, AS A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT AS A, AS A, AS A, UH, PROBLEM MITIGATING TEMPORARY STRUCTURE THAT THAT WOULDN'T BE EXPECTED TO BE THERE FOR THE REST OF ETERNITY. UM, THAT, THAT AS A, AS A SHED, AS A, AS A, AS A TEMPORARY STRUCTURE THAT IT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED DIFFERENTLY BY THE COMMISSION. BUT I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE COMMISSION. I JUST THINK THAT FROM MY PART, THAT IT BECOMES APPROVABLE IN THAT WAY. I WOULD CONSIDER CONSIDERING, UH, TEMPORARY SINCE I'M AN OLD LADY. WELL, I, I, I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE, THE COMMENTS, BUT I THINK THE, THE, UM, SUGGESTION BY THE COMMISSIONER TO GO TO A, I THINK YOU SAID TO A D R C, RIGHT? I THINK IS A GOOD SUGGESTION BECAUSE THERE, THEY'LL BE ABLE TO GET INVOLVED IN A ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATION WITH YOU AND Y'ALL CAN FIND A, A PLACE TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER BETTER. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? I GIBBS, AYE. VICIOUS ABSENT. S AYE VELAZQUEZ. AYE. OLA, ABSENT MASUKA AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. ANTE? YES. FETZER AYE. AND LA AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. STAFF WILL GET WITH YOU AND, UH, SET UP THAT D R C. OKAY, THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MOTION TO ADJOURN? A LITTLE TOO EARLY. TWO MORE CASES. OKAY, WELL THAT WAS, WE STILL HAVE THREE CASES. OH, . IT IS NOT THAT I WANT TO GO, I READ THE THING WRONG. WE HAVE TWO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 22, UH, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 5 9 0 3 31 FUR DRIVE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE 20 EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS WITH NEW WOOD WINDOWS. UM, STAFF IS NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS B THROUGH E. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT RESTORE THE DETERIORATED WOOD WINDOWS AND PRESERVE ALL ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOW OPENINGS. IF THE H D R C IS COMPELLED TO APPROVE WOOD APPROVE, THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT STAFF RECOMMENDS THE STANDARD STIPULATIONS FOR THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT. UM, THE APPLICANT, UH, ERNESTINE NAVARRO, UH, IS BEING REPRESENTED BY YOUR SON STEVEN. UM, HE SHOULD BE ATTENDING VIRTUALLY. HE'S HERE. I CAN SEE HIM. MR. NAVARRO? YES. GOOD EVENING. HI, CAN Y'ALL [03:20:01] HEAR ME OKAY? YES, THAT'S PRETTY GOOD. I THINK THEY CAN TURN YOU UP AS YOU KEEP TALKING TOO. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. THIS IS PHOTOS. THEY CAN SEE PHOTOS OF THE HOUSE. NOW, WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND PRESENT YOUR CASE FOR WINDOW REPLACEMENT? YES, I WILL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. I, I KNOW IT'S, UH, IT'S A LITTLE LATE THIS EVENING, ABOUT SIX 20, SO I DO APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S TIME. I WILL TRY TO BE, UH, PRETTY BRIEF. I THINK I SUBMITTED, UH, EVERYTHING THAT WAS REQUESTED AND, AND TO TRY TO GIVE EVERYBODY A, UH, A GOOD PICTURE OF WHAT IT IS THAT IS CONCERNING MY MOTHER. UM, SHE IS 94 YEARS OLD. UM, THE HOUSE THAT YOU SEE THERE IS, IS ALMOST A HUNDRED YEARS OLD. IT WAS BUILT IN 1925. UM, THE HOUSE, UH, DOES NOT HAVE CENTRAL AIR AND CENTRAL HEAT. IT'S ALL, UH, HEATED, UH, THROUGH, UH, GAS FIREPLACES. UM, AND, AND SHE USES, UH, ROUGHLY IN THE HOUSE. SHE USES, UH, THREE, UM, FIREPLACES. ONE IN THE, UH, MAIN LIVING ROOM, UH, ONE IN HER BEDROOM AND ONE IN THE, UH, BATHROOM. AND THAT'S ALL THAT SHE HAS TO, TO HEAT THE HOUSE. UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT THAT, UM, RAISED THIS ISSUE FOR HER, AND SHE'S ASKED ME TO PURSUE IT OBVIOUSLY IS, IS WHAT OCCURRED LAST FEBRUARY. UM, WHILE THE WINDOWS, UH, ARE PRETTY DETERIORATED, UM, AND HAVE BEEN FOR A WHILE, UM, OVER THE YEARS, IT DOES TEND TO GET COLD, UH, IN THAT HOUSE. UM, FROM TIME TO TIME I WILL STAY THERE WITH HER, ALONG WITH SOME OF MY OTHER BROTHERS. AND, AND WE NOTICED THAT, UM, I THINK WHAT REALLY CAME TO BECOME AN ISSUE, UH, WITH HER WAS AGAIN, WHAT OCCURRED IN, IN FEBRUARY. UH, WE HAD TO REMOVE HER FROM THE HOUSE, UH, AND HAVE HER STAY WITH ME ACTUALLY FOR ABOUT FOUR DAYS UNTIL OF COURSE THE TEMPERATURES, UH, UH, WARMED UP, UM, BE, AND, AND SOME OF THESE PHOTOS, UM, YOU KNOW, I DID THE BEST I COULD AND, AND IT'S HARD TO SEE. I THINK YOU CAN KIND OF SEE SOME OF DETERIORATION, BUT I DON'T THINK THE PHOTOS, UM, DO DO THE WINDOWS JUSTICE, THESE WINDOWS, UH, BECAUSE OF THE DETERIORATION, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, UH, HEAT DISSIPATES, HEAT ESCAPES FROM THE HOUSE. UH, AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, THE COLD AIR, UH, COMES IN AND THERE'S DRAFTS, UH, FROM THESE WINDOWS. AND SO AGAIN, IN THE WINTERTIME, IT DOES, UH, MAKE THE HOUSE, UH, PRETTY COLD IN, IN ORDER TO, UH, TRY TO, UH, KEEP THE HOUSE AS AS WARM AS SHE AS SHE CAN. UH, AND IN ORDER TO, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, TRY AND MAKE THE WINDOWS AS EFFICIENT, UH, AS POSSIBLE, UH, MY MOM REQUESTS IS REQUESTING, UM, THAT SHE BE ABLE TO GO AHEAD AND RE RE REPLACE, UH, ALL OF THE WI MOST OF THE WINDOWS. NOT ALL OF 'EM, MOST OF THE WINDOWS ON THE LOWER LEVEL, AND IT COMES OUT TO, UH, 20 WINDOWS, UM, AROUND THE, THE, THE LOWER LEVEL OF THE HOUSE. UM, SHE WOULD LIKE TO, YOU KNOW, SHE'S OLD SCHOOL, SO SHE WOULD LIKE TO REPLACE THEM AS OPPOSED TO, TO MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO REPAIR THEM. UM, SHE BELIEVES, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE'LL HAVE MORE PEACE OF MIND IF, IF THERE ARE NEW WINDOWS IN THERE THAT, UH, WILL, WILL BE MORE EFFICIENT AND AT LEAST CAN, CAN HEAT THE, THE KEEP THE, THE HEAT IN THE HOUSE MORE SO THAN WHAT SHE'S DEALING WITH. UH, NOW, UM, THE REQUEST WOULD WOULD BE FOR, I, I DID SUBMIT, UH, TWO SPECS, UH, FROM PELLA. UM, ONE OF THEM WAS WOOD AND ONE OF THEM, UH, I BELIEVE WAS VINYL. UM, UH, YOU KNOW, SHE UNDERSTANDS THAT SHE LIVES IN A HISTORIC, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THAT IF A, THE APPROVAL WAS TO BE MADE, THAT MORE THAN LIKELY, UM, THE REQUIREMENT WOULD BE FOR WOOD WINDOWS, AND THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE, UH, FOR, FOR HER. UH, AND SO JUST, YOU KNOW, BASED AGAIN ON, ON THE ISSUES THAT SHE HAS WITH THE HOUSE BEING COLD AND THE WINDOWS ACTUALLY BEING DETERIORATED. UM, AND, AND ON SOME OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN, YOU CAN KIND OF, I DON'T KNOW, USING THIS, UH, FORMAT HERE, IF YOU CAN ZOOM IN ON THEM. BUT ON SOME OF THEM, IF YOU ACTUALLY SEE THEM IN PERSON, YOU CAN SEE WHERE, UM, SOME OF THE, THE ACTUAL WOOD IS, IS FALLING APART. UH, AND AGAIN, FOR HER, YOU KNOW, SHE'S, I THINK IN THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND CORNER, UM, UH, I'M SORRY, IN THE MIDDLE. YOU CAN KIND OF SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE, UM, WHERE IT'S, IT'S KIND OF BREAKING APART RIGHT HERE IN THIS, IN THIS AREA. UH, AND, AND THERE'S A COUPLE OF OTHERS. UM, SOME OF THEM ARE, ARE A LITTLE MORE ADVANCED, UH, IN DAMAGED AS, AS OTHERS. UM, BUT AGAIN, UM, [03:25:01] IN ORDER TO HOPEFULLY, UH, KEEP THE WARM AIR IN AND THE COLD AIR, UH, OUT, UH, SHE'S REQUESTING THE OPPORTUNITY TO REPLACE THOSE WINDOWS, UH, AGAIN WITH, WITH WOOD WINDOWS. UH, AND THAT'S ALL I HAVE, AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. UH, DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS? THERE ARE NO COMMENTS OR LETTERS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, YES, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THANK YOU. UM, AND, UH, THANK YOU MR. NAVARRO. APPRECIATE YOUR, UH, THANK YOU MEETING WITH US THIS EVENING AND, AND, UH, IN THE INTEREST AND CARE THAT YOU'RE TAKING FOR YOUR MOTHER. I WAS, UH, SHIVERING JUST A BLOCK AWAY FROM HER DURING THAT SAME TIME. UH, AND THAT WAS A PRETTY SEVERE, UH, INCIDENT, OBVIOUSLY. UM, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT TO TRY TO MAKE OUR HISTORIC BUILDINGS AS ENERGY EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE. THE THING COMES WITH THE WINDOWS THAT THEY'RE A VERY IMPORTANT CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE AND AN ELEMENT THAT, UM, WE TRY TO RETAIN FOR AS LONG AS WE CAN IN THE INFORMATION WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US. WE HAVE YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF DETERIORATION, BUT STAFF DID A, UM, A SITE VISIT ON NOVER NOVEMBER 22ND, AND IT'S THEIR OPINION THAT THEY CAN BE, UH, REPAIRED. UM, OR THERE MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, SOME SELECTIVE, UH, REMOVAL. UM, I WOULD PROPOSE, UM, A SITE VISIT, A D R C SITE VISIT FOR THIS SO THAT WE CAN PUT EYES ON THE CONDITION OURSELVES AND BE ABLE TO KIND OF, UH, RECTIFY THIS, UH, SORT OF DIFFERENT CHARACTERIZATION OF THE CONDITION OF THE, OF THE WINDOWS. IF THAT WAS EMOTIONAL, I'D AGREE, BUT I JUST WANNA, UH, I'LL SECOND IT. I JUST WANNA SAY SOMETHING HERE TO MR. NAVARRO. UM, I ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT ACCORDING TO YOUR WINDOW SCHEDULE AND THE PICTURES, I FIND THAT YOU HAVE LIKE TWO TYPES OF WINDOWS ON THE LOW LEVEL. I KNOW YOU HAVE THE, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE VINYL, ALUMINUM WINDOWS ON THE UPSTAIRS. SO I AM ALSO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH WINDOWS ARE YOU REPLACING. I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE NOT REPLACING SOME OF THE NON-ORIGINAL ALUMINUM. YOU'RE TRYING TO REPLACE ALL THE ORIGINAL WOOD, ESPECIALLY ALSO THE FRONT WINDOW, WHICH IS BEAUTIFUL. UM, AND, AND TO YOUR MOM. AND, AND, AND I AM ALSO VERY COMPELLED WITH YOUR MOM'S SITUATION, HER AGE, THE WEATHER, AND HOW HER HOUSE IS, BUT THE AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT THAT YOU'RE PUTTING INTO NEW WINDOWS, I ALSO FEEL LIKE THERE SHOULD, THERE COULD BE ALSO, UM, OTHER WAYS OF KEEPING HER MORE SAFE AND WARM, UM, AND MAYBE CONSIDERING, UM, A MORE MODERNIZED HEATING SYSTEM MAYBE, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UH, SO LET'S ALSO TALK ABOUT, UH, WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE FOR THAT IN THAT HOME. SO THE SECOND, THE D R C, SO WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND FOR D R C SIDE VISIT. ANY DISCUSSION, MY NAME MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. I, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE PROCESS. HOW MUCH TIME IS THIS GONNA KEEP FOR HER GETTING HER WINDOWS OR GETTING TO A POINT WHERE SAFETY IS AN ISSUE WHEN COLD IS COMING UP? WINTER'S COMING UP, THE NEXT HEARING IS JANUARY 19TH. WELL, D R C VISIT WILL BE THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY. THE D R C WILL HAPPEN BEFORE THEN. AND THEN THE 19TH IS THE SOONEST THAT IT WOULD COME BACK HERE FOR A DECISION. SO THEN I WOULD JUST CAUTION THAT WE ARE PUTTING THIS OFF UNTIL JANUARY, WELL, IN JANUARY. SO I KNOW IT'S A COUPLE OF WEEKS AWAY, BUT THE WEATHER'S GONNA GET COLD. UH, THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE AND I THINK WE'RE, WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING RIGHT WITH, UH, WITH GETTING THIS LADY TO REPLACE HER WINDOWS. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT SOMETHING. YES, SIR. UH, SIR, IS YOUR MOM LIVING IN THE HOUSE RIGHT NOW? RIGHT NOW? YES, SHE IS. I HAVE HER PRESENT FOR THAT COMMITTEE MEETING SO SHE CAN TELL, UH, THEM HOW, UH, WHAT, WHAT HER EXPECTATIONS ARE. OKAY. IT, YES, SIR. WITH THAT, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE CALLING THE D R C SITE VISIT? YES. YES. THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, SEVERAL OF THE COMMISSIONERS WILL MEET WITH YOU AND YOUR, YOUR MOTHER THERE AT THE HOUSE SO THAT, UM, WE CAN LOOK AT THE CONDITION OF THE WINDOWS AND DISCUSS WITH Y'ALL THE, UH, CONCERNS. STAFF IS THERE. I'LL DEF YES, NO, I'LL, I'LL DEFINITELY DO THAT. I APPRECIATE THE, UH, THE, THE SUGGESTION AND THE COMMENT. UH, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, UM, SHE, UM, THINKS ABOUT, UH, EVERY DAY, MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY. IT IS A CONCERN FOR HER, AND I DO APPRECIATE THE OTHER GENTLEMAN'S CONCERN AND ALL OF YOU, ALL OF YOUR CONCERNS AND COMMENTS. UM, AND, AND I WILL CERTAINLY HAVE HER AVAILABLE, UM, TO BE THERE. SO THAT, UH, SHE'S A LITTLE HARD OF HEARING. THAT'S THE ONLY, THE ONLY OTHER ISSUE. UH, BUT, UH, BUT [03:30:01] CERTAINLY, UM, SHE WOULD, YOU KNOW, SHE, SHE WILL CERTAINLY BE THERE TO EXPRESS HER THOUGHTS AND TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AS WELL. THANK YOU'ALL VERY MUCH. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. STAFF. I HAVE A QUESTION OF YOU. IS THERE A WAY TO EXPEDITE THIS? I MEAN, LIKE THIS WEEK, I, I ECHO COMMISSIONER'S, UH, UH, CONCERN, WELL, THE, THE SCHEDULE WOULD BE D R C AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, BUT THE NEXT SCHEDULED HEARING TO DEAL WITH THE, UH, DISPOSITION OF THIS CASE WOULD BE JANUARY 19TH. UNLESS A SPECIAL HEARING, UNLESS A SPECIAL HEARING WAS CALLED TOGETHER, TO BE HONEST, UM, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE TAKE LIGHTLY. I DON'T THINK MR. NAVARRO'S GONNA TAKE IT LIGHTLY. UM, THE FREEZE WAS BACK IN FEBRUARY. WE'VE HAD MANY, MANY MONTHS THAT WE HAVE LOTS OF APPLICANTS THAT HAVE COME IN AND HAD, UM, YOU KNOW, REVIEWS OF ITEMS. I THINK THAT, UM, IF IT COMES DOWN TO SOME CODE, I THINK MR. NAVARRO WILL PROBABLY TAKE CARE OF HIS MOTHER. SO, WHICH HE HAS DONE BEFORE, I DON'T, I, I DON'T SEE THE APPLICANT REQUESTING THIS , RIGHT. BUT I THINK, THINK WE HAVE, I THINK WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO KIND OF CONSIDER EVERY OPTION AVAILABLE. AND IF THERE'S AN OPTION TO EXPEDITE, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD PROBABLY LOOK AT OR AT LEAST DISCUSS. AND, AND, AND I WOULD SAY RESPECTFULLY, I WOULD SAY IF THERE IS, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE PROCESS GOES. IF THERE IS, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPEDITE IT, UH, I WOULD REQUEST THAT. AND JUST TO BE COMPLETELY CANDID WITH YOU, UM, IF ANOTHER INSTANCE, ANOTHER EPISODE COMES UP LIKE WE HAD, YES, I WOULD, I WOULD CERTAINLY, UM, GET MY MOTHER OUT OF THE HOUSE. HOWEVER, THAT IN ITSELF, UM, TOOK SOME, UH, HAND TWISTING TO DO BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT SHE JUST, YOU KNOW, MY FATHER PASSED AWAY IN 2019. AND, AND, AND SO THAT'S THE HOUSE THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE'S BEEN IN SINCE, UH, THE EARLY SEVENTIES. AND, AND IT'S HARD FOR HER TO, TO GET UP AND LEAVE. SO IT, IT TOOK SOME ARM TWISTING TO GET HER TO LEAVE. SHE ACTUALLY DIDN'T LEAVE THE HOUSE UNTIL TUESDAY AFTER SHE HAD BEEN, UH, WITHOUT, UM, ELECTRICITY FOR ABOUT A DAY AND A HALF. SO IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN AGAIN, YES, BY ALL MEANS WOULD, WOULD GET HER AND, AND, UH, TRY TO GET HER TO COME WITH ME. SHE WOULD HAVE AGAIN, I'M SURE, OKAY, MR. NAVARRO SOME ME, SO YOU HAVE TO ORDERED THE WINDOWS. THERE'S GONNA BE LIKE AN EIGHT WEEK DELIVERY TIME MINIMUM. AND THEN I SEE SOME ALUMINUM FRAMING. THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE, HAVE TO BE REMOVED TO DO THE REPLACEMENT. THERE'S TWO COMMISSIONERS THAT LIVE A BLOCK AWAY. WE CAN GO SEE IT ON OUR OWN TIME IF IT MATTERS. IF, I MEAN, FROM THE OUTSIDE, IF MR. NAVARRA IS COMFORTABLE AS WALKING WITHOUT HAVING, UH, A NOTIFICATION. BUT HE, I MEAN, LOT OF NOTIFYING HIS, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN DO THAT, NOTIFYING HIS MOTHER, BUT I THINK THIS IS, UH, THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN BEING ABLE TO ACTUALLY MR. NAVARRA PROVIDING NEW WINDOWS FOR HIS MOTHER IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO BEFORE CHRISTMAS. YEAH, I, I CONCUR. I THINK IT'S A LITTLE RED, A BIT OF A RED HERRING. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A, IS A SAFETY CONCERN THERE, BUT THERE IS, UH, RIGHT NOW A, A SEVERE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUE AND WINDOWS ARE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING AFFECTED BY THAT. THESE WOULD HAVE TO BE CUSTOM WINDOWS, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IT WOULD BE, EVEN IF WE WERE ABLE TO GIVE THE GREEN LIGHT TODAY, YOU'RE TALKING WEEKS AND WEEKS FOR THAT TO OCCUR. SO I WOULD, I WOULD, I WOULD HAVE A CONTINGENCY PLAN, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST ASSUMING THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A DELAY JUST IN EVEN JUST GETTING THE ORDERING AND THEN HAVING SOME SIGNIFICANT, UH, YOU KNOW, CARPENTRY WORK DONE TO TAKE OUT THOSE WINDOWS AND PUT IN, PUT IN THE NEW ONES IF, IF WE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, DECIDE THAT, UH, WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT IS WARRANTED. SO I, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAPPEN QUICKLY, UH, INDEPENDENT OF WHAT THIS COMMISSION DOES. SO MR. CHAIR, UH, WOULD ASK THE STAFF, IS THAT AN OPTION THEN? 'CAUSE I CAN, I CAN, WE CAN DENY THE OPTION, BUT IS IT AN OPTION TO DO AN EXPEDITED D R C TO VISIT THIS LADY'S HOUSE? SO STAFF DOES NOT HAVE AN EXPEDITED PROCESS BECAUSE THIS REQUEST REQUIRES COMMISSION APPROVAL. THE ONLY PROCESS IS NEXT AVAILABLE COMMISSION HEARING, WHICH WOULD BE THE 19TH, UNLESS AN ADDITIONAL HEARING WAS ADDED TO THE SCHEDULE BY VOTE OF THIS COMMISSION. BUT WE STILL WOULDN'T HAVE TIME TO DO A D R C. AND YOU GUYS SUBMIT, RECOMMEND, WELL, I GUESS A D R C, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO MORE RECOMMENDATION. I, I MEAN IT IS STAFF COMMITMENT TOO AND TIME. SO IT WOULD ALL HAPPEN ANYWAY THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY. 'CAUSE YOU'RE CLOSING, YOU KNOW, STARTING MONTH, RIGHT? SO I DON'T KNOW WHEN THE HEARING WOULD HAPPEN BEFORE JANUARY. LET'S TAKE THE VOTE ON THE D R C AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS WHETHER WE ANYONE MAKES A [03:35:01] MOTION FOR A SPECIAL HEARING. SO CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? I GIPPS. AYE. VICIOUS ABSENT SINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. LES ABSENT MA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. BE SIR. AYE. AND THE AYE MOTION PASSES. SO THAT MOTION PASSES AND IF THERE IS INTEREST IN SETTING AND WE'LL NEED TO CHECK WITH LEGAL ABOUT SETTING SPECIAL AGENDAS. IS THAT POSSIBLE IF THE, IF THE BOARD, IF THE COMMISSION VOTES FOR A SPECIAL CASE? YES, THAT CAN BE DONE. OKAY. IF THERE'S INTEREST, IS THERE A MOTION TO HAVE A SPECIAL HEARING FOR THIS CASE BEFORE THE NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING, WHICH IS JANUARY 19TH? YES. I'LL SECOND. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR A SPECIAL D H D R C HEARING FOR THIS CASE PRIOR TO JANUARY 19TH. AND MR. CHAIR, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I, I THOROUGHLY APPRECIATE, UH, THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS NEW COMMISSIONER. UH, FIND YOUR SENSITIVITY, UH, MUCH UH, UM, BREATH OF FRESH AIR. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE SO I SPECIAL CALLED MEETING? YEAH, I DO. UM, JUST TO KIND OF MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT LIKE EASIER FOR AVAILABILITY, I MEAN WE'RE ALL VOLUNTEERS, WE'RE ALREADY PUTTING A LOT OF TIME INTO THESE MEETINGS. UM, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IT'S JUST ONE CASE OR ARE WE THEN ADDING A BUNCH OF OTHER CASES? IS PEOPLE GONNA BE ABLE TO SUBMIT THE REQUEST TO BE ON THAT SPECIAL MEETING? UH, CAN WE DO IT OVER ZOOM? NOT NECESSARILY. ESPECIALLY, I MEAN THE MOTION COULD BE REFERRING THIS CASE SPECIFICALLY TO A SPECIAL HEARING AND YOU WOULD STILL NEED THE QUORUM IN PRESENT AND THE NOTIFICATION TIME IS THAT WE NEED TO POST EXPEDITED OR AS A RESULT OF THIS, OR NO, WE WOULD NEED TO POST THE AGENDA, UM, 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE. UM, WE COULD, IF THE D R C VISIT WERE PULLED TOGETHER WITHIN THE NEXT WEEK, WE COULD POTENTIALLY POST NOW FOR SOMETHING EARLY IN JANUARY. UM, WE COULD LOOK AT JANUARY 5TH SINCE THAT IS A WEDNESDAY AND I KNOW THAT THIS ROOM IS AVAILABLE FOR THAT. UM, BUT THAT'S WHY I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE, RIGHT? 'CAUSE WE HAVE TWO DAYS LEFT OF THIS WEEK AND THEN I DON'T KNOW, WELL I'M LEAVING TOWN SO I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE, BUT UM, AND THEN I FEEL LIKE WE'RE PUTTING THIS, I MEAN THIS IS KIND OF LIKE, I IT'S NOT, THIS IS NOTHING PERSONAL ABOUT THIS CASE IS JUST, WE'RE DOING THIS BASED ON ONE CASE THAT I BASICALLY DO NOT, I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET THE WINDOWS IN TIME ANYWAY NO MATTER WHAT. I THINK YOU WOULD, I MEAN WITH THE SCHEDULE WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, YOU WOULD GAIN TWO WEEKS, WHICH TWO WEEKS IS, IS ENOUGH TO GET THE BALL MOVING. WE HAVE A DUTY TO, TO DO THE BEST WE CAN WHENEVER WE CAN TO JUST MOVE FORWARD. I'LL IN THE VOTE SINCE I WON'T WAIT UNTIL JANUARY 5TH. AND REGARDING THE D R C, I MEAN AS, AS COMMISSIONER GROUPS SAID, I MEAN I'M LITERALLY A VERY SHORT DOGS WALK AWAY FROM THE, THE PROPERTY. I CAN GO RIGHT THERE TOMORROW AND MEET STAFF IF WE CAN. WE JUST NEED TWO COMMISSIONERS FOR A QUORUM OF THE D R C. AND SO WE'LL NEED TO COORDINATE A LITTLE BIT TO GET AT LEAST TWO OF YOU THERE AT THE SAME TIME. UM, BUT UM, AGAIN, THERE WAS A MENTION OF OF OTHERS JUST GOING AND SEEING IT THEMSELVES. AND SO THAT CAN HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF THE D R C IF IT WAS TOO DIFFICULT TO PULL THE SCHEDULES TOGETHER. AND, AND IF WE CAN GET THAT THIS WEEK, THURSDAY OR FRIDAY, I'D BE, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE WE CAN MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OR WHAT CONSTITUTES THE REQUIREMENT FOR A SPECIAL MEETING? UM, I CAN PULL UP THE RULES OF PROCEDURE IF YOU GIMME A LITTLE BIT OF TIME. BUT SPECIAL JUST MEANS NOT LIKE ON THE APPROVED CALENDAR. LIKE, SO ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ALREADY ON THE SCHEDULE WOULD BE CONSIDERED SPECIAL. AND THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR MEETING THE SPECIAL THRESHOLD. IT'S SPECIAL BECAUSE IT'S CALLED BY EITHER STAFF OR THE CHAIR OR BY VOTING COMMISSION. OKAY. I'LL JUST, BEFORE WE VOTE, I JUST WILL ADD THAT BASED ON OUR CONVERSATION, THIS IS THE LOGISTICS OF IT, BOTH IN TIME AND FOR MATERIALS. I DON'T SEE THIS AS AN EMERGENCY, WHICH I WOULD HAPPY TO PARTICIPATE IN AN EMERGENCY SPECIAL MEETING. [03:40:01] UM, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY IMPENDING WEATHER FORECAST THAT GIVES US A, UM, YOU KNOW, A, A GUARANTEE THAT WE HAVE AN ISSUE. WE ALSO HAVE A OPTION, A HOUSING OPTION FOR THE APPLICANT. UM, SO I DON'T CONSIDER THIS AN EMERGENCY. THAT'S MI MR. CHAIR. I, I, I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO ADDRESS TOO MUCH OF THAT. BUT THERE IS A, THERE IS A SCHEDULED, UH, AND NOT SCHEDULED A PREDICTED WEATHER, UH, ANOMALY OCCURRING. I THINK IT ARRIVES THIS WEEK LIKE SUNDAY OR MONDAY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH A THIRD 20 DEGREE ANOMALY. UH, WITH RESPECT TO COLD. UM, WELL WE CANNOT PREDICT, PREDICT THE WEATHER. WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE, NO, THAT'S FROM A WEATHER REPORT. OKAY, WELL THEY CAN'T PREDICT IT EITHER. . UM, WE HAVE A MOTION FOR A SPECIAL HEARING TO CONSIDER THIS CASE. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? I'M NOT GONNA BE GIBBS NAY. OKAY, FISH IS ABSENT. SAVINO NAY, VELAZQUEZ. AYE. OLAS ABSENT? UH, . AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. NAY. UH, ES YES. ER NO NAY. MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. SO WE WILL SCHEDULE THE D R C BETWEEN NOW AND THE 19TH AND THEN THE CASE WILL BE REHEARD ON JANUARY 19TH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. APPRECIATE YOUR HELP. THANK YOU MR. NAVARRO. YES SIR. ITEM 23. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 23 H D R C CASE 2021 DASH 617 1 0 8 PARKVIEW DRIVE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE WITH A FIVE FOOT WROUGHT IRON FENCE AND VEHICLE GATE IN THE FRONT YARD. AND TWO, REPLACE THE EXISTING FENCE WITH A SIX FOOT WOOD FENCE IN THE REAR AND SIDE YARDS. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE, REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE FENCE NOT EXCEED FOUR FEET IN HEIGHT AS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO AS SUBMITTED. UM, THE APPLICANT, JUANITA RIVAS IS HERE. I'M IN PERSON TO COMMENT ON STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. HI EVERYBODY. IT'S JUANITA RIVAS AND I WANNA SEE IF I COULD GET APPROVED WITH A FIVE FOOT IRON FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD. IT USED TO HAVE THE CHAIN LINK BUT IT WAS ALL LOOSE AND EVERYTHING AND HAVE GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS, WHICH THEY JUMPED EASILY THE FOUR FEET 'CAUSE IN THE SIDE IT'S LIKE THREE FEET, NINE INCHES AND THEY JUST JUMP OVER IT. AND I ALREADY, THE NEIGHBOR, THEY GOT OUT TWICE. SO THE NEIGHBOR, UM, HE ALREADY REPORTED ME TO THE POLICE TO TWICE 'CAUSE THE DOG WAS IN THE STREET, WHICH ONE WAS LIKE 1130 IN THE NIGHT, WHICH I LET IT LOOSE SO IT COULD RUN BECAUSE IT WAS TIED UP ALL DAY BEING THAT IT WAS SO LATE AND NOBODY WAS OUT IN, IN THE NIGHT ALREADY. IT WAS 1130 IN THE NIGHT SINCE THEY'RE TIED UP ALL DAY. I LET IT LOOSE BECAUSE I THOUGHT NOBODY WAS AWAKE, BUT HE CALLED THE COPS AT THAT TIME. THE COPS WENT OVER THERE AND TOLD ME THE, THE DOGS YEAH, THEY WERE IN THE STREET. I SAID, YEAH 'CAUSE THEY'RE TIED UP ALL DAY AND THEY JUMPED THE FENCE. SO I DECIDED TO LET IT LOOSE IN THE NIGHT. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WANNA PUT THE FIVE, UM, RIGHT IRON FENCE IN THE FRONT FIVE FOOT. 'CAUSE THEY NEVER TRIED TO JUMP THROUGH THE FRONT WHEN IT WAS FIVE, UH, SHADING. AND THEN ALSO THERE'S MORE NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE FIVE FOOT LIKE DOWN THE STREET PLUS IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE. I GUESS IT'S A, IT IS A CITY PROPERTY. THERE'S NO NEIGHBORS IN THE FRONT, BUT THE FENCES THEY HAVE IS EIGHT OR NINE FOOT ALL THE BLOCK ALL THE WAY OVER THERE. SO I SENT PICTURES OF THE NEIGHBOR, LIKE THAT ONE IS HIGHER THAN FIVE FOOT PROBABLY. AND DOWN THE STREET IF Y'ALL KEEP GOING THERE, THAT ONE ALSO. AND, AND ACROSS THAT ONE THERE'S MORE, THERE'S LIKE TWO MORE IN FRONT OF THAT ONE AND BEFORE THAT, LIKE THAT ONE AND ANOTHER ONE THAT I PROBABLY DIDN'T TAKE, BUT UH, LIKE THAT ONE IS LIKE, LOOKS HIGHER THAN ME. I'M FIVE TWO SO I DON'T KNOW HOW HIGH IT IS, BUT, SO I JUST WANNA JUST SIT THAT ON. THAT'S MY DOG. AND YOU [03:45:01] COULD SEE THE FENCE THERE, , BUT I HAVE 'EM TIED UP THERE. SO YOU SEE IT'S NOT THAT HEIGHT AND IT'S ALL UGLY, THE FENCE ALREADY. SO, AND I'M GONNA HAVE NEW NEIGHBORS, THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO PUT THE PRIVATE FENCE SO THEY WON'T BE BOTHERED BY MY DOGS. YOU SEE, THEY COULD SEE THAT OTHER NEIGHBOR HAS IT ALL THERE TOO, LIKE THAT PRIVATE FENCE ON THE SIDE. AND YOU SEE THAT FENCE IS ALL TORN THERE AND EVERYTHING. SO THAT'S MAINLY WHAT I WANTED TO SEE IF I COULD PROVE THE FIVE FOOT IRON FENCE IN THE FRONT. AND I'M, I'M PLANNING TO DO FIVE FOOT ON THE SIDE STAIRS TO THE HOUSE AND THEN PRIVATE TO THE, TOWARDS THE BACK, THE SIX FOOT. OKAY, THANK YOU MS. RIVAS, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENT COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION, MR. CHAIR? THIS, UH, THIS PROPERTY IS IN THE SOUTH SIDE AND UM, THE, UH, THE PREVIOUS CYCLONE FENCE WAS FIVE FEET. NOW, UH, WITH RESPECT TO TO, UH, THE SOUTH SIDE, IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE THAT LAST CASE THAT WE GOT OUT FURTHER OUT IN THE RANCH AREAS, IT'S COMMON THAT THE CYCLONE FENCES WERE FIVE FEET. SO WHEN YOU GET INTO THE SOUTH SIDE, WHEN YOU GET INTO THE MISSION DISTRICT AND THAT, THAT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MISSION SAN JOSE MEXICAN, BUT WHEN YOU GET INTO THE SOUTH SIDE, IT'S A, IT'S A SUBURB KIND OF A NEIGHBORHOOD AND FIVE FEET IS NOT OUT OF, UH, CONTEXT IF IT'S REPLACING A CYCLONE FENCE, THIS IS A DECORATIVE SOLUTION, UH, THAT ACHIEVES THE SAME HEIGHT THAT WAS EXISTING. SO I I I THINK THAT IT'S VERY APPROPRIATE THAT THIS MAYBE IS MORE CONSISTENT WITH A DESIGN ENHANCEMENT THAN, THAN IT IS WITH, UM, A CHANGE IN THE, IN THE FENCE HEIGHT. YOU'LL, YOU'LL HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING FOUR FOOT FENCE AT THE FRONT IN SOUTH SIDE PROPERTIES THAT ARE TYPICALLY FIVE FEET. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. UH, QUESTION MS. RIVAS, ARE YOU PROPOSING TO PUT YOUR FENCE IN THE SAME LOCATION AS THE CYCLONE FENCE? YES. YES. EVERYTHING ALL THE PLACE IS GONNA BE THE SAME. I'M JUST GONNA TAKE IT OFF AND PUT IT ON. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. JUST QUICK QUESTION. UM, YES AND I, I TEND TO THINK THAT THERE IS SOME LATITUDE HERE. IT IS AN IMPROVEMENT, UM, IN MATERIAL AND, AND UH, APPEARANCE, I BELIEVE OVER THE CYCLONE FENCE. BUT I DO HAVE A QUESTION. IS THERE A, HAVE, HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT SUBDIVIDING YOUR, YOUR YARD SO THAT THE DOG DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE FRONT AND THAT IT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO, TO BRING THE, THE HIKE DOWN OF THAT FENCING? NO, BECAUSE THEY ALREADY BROKE TWICE INTO MY HOUSE. SO IN THE NIGHT I WANNA LET 'EM LOOSE SO THEY COULD GO OUT IN THE YARD AND LIKE THEY'RE SCARED OF 'EM 'CAUSE THEY BARK. I MEAN, YEAH, I, I KNOW THEY'RE BIG DOGS WITH LOTS OF ENERGY AND THEY NEED THE SPACE. SO I, BUT I'VE JUST TRIED TO FIND A, MAYBE A WAY OF COMPLYING WITH THE REQUIREMENTS BUT ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, GETTING, GETTING YOU WHAT YOU NEED. MM-HMM. , I, I DO QUESTION AND I THINK MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE DESIGN MANUAL FOR THE MISSION AND, AND REEXAMINE THE FENCING OPTIONS IN THIS AREA. 'CAUSE I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONER VOS VESQUEZ BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT ABOUT, UH, THERE THERE'S A LOT OF VARIATION THERE GOING FROM LARGE RANCH AREAS TO AREAS THAT BEGIN TO APPROACH, UH, YOU KNOW, SUBURB SCALE LOTS. UM, SO I, I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF, OF THIS BEING FIVE FEET AS REQUESTED. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. YES. COMMISSIONER GROUP. SO JUST ALSO TO THE COMMENT OF COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, IF YOUR CYCLONE FENCE IS FIVE FEET, THEN WHY IS IT AN ISSUE NOW? AND THEN IF YOU PUT IN A FIVE FEET WILD IRON FENCE, IT WON'T BE AN ISSUE. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT PART THAT THAT, OR DID I MISUNDERSTAND THAT OUR CYCLONE FENCE IS NOT FIVE FEET, BUT THAT'S COMMON FOUND THAT IT'S FIVE FEET. SO, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ WAS SAYING IT'S KIND OF ALMOST REPLACING IT. IT'S MORE LIKE A DESIGN ENHANCEMENT THAN IT IS. YEAH. BUT THEN I DON'T SEE HOW IT'S MITIGATING HER PROBLEM WITH THE DOG. SO I DON'T WANNA PROVE ANYTHING THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT HELPING HER. NO, IT'S JUST THE RECOMMENDATION SAYS, UH, THE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THE ASSISTING FENCE FRONT YARD BE STIPULATION THE DEFENSE. BUT IF WE'RE RECOMMENDING A FIVE FOOT, WHICH IS WHAT SHE WANTS, ARE WE EVEN GIVING HER AN IMPROVEMENT SINCE SHE ALREADY HAS A FIVE FOOT CYCL FENCE WITH THAT? THE ONE I HAD IS ALL TORN AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURES AND IT WAS ALL LIKE FALLING AND YEAH, BUT ISN'T IT ALSO LESS EXPENSIVE FOR YOU AND IT'S TO JUST REPLACE THE, THE CYCLONE MATERIAL AND THAT PUTTING IN A FIVE FOOT INSTEAD? WHAT, OKAY, I'M GONNA REPHRASE. ARE YOU SURE THAT A FIVE FOOT WROUGHT IRON FENCE WILL SOLVE YOUR DOG'S PROBLEM? THE PROBLEM WITH THE DOG? YES. I'M SURE BECAUSE THEY'LL NEVER TRY TO JUMP THROUGH THE FRONT, BUT YEAH. THROUGH THE SIDES, WHICH IS THE BUT ON THE SIDE WE'RE, WE'RE THE SIDE IS WE'RE GONNA APPROVE THE SIX FOOT FENCE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH [03:50:01] THE SIX FOOT FENCE. RIGHT, RIGHT. MY STIPULATION IS ONLY, UH, LIKE IF I MADE A MOTION, BE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. BUT THAT'S THE THING. I WOULD RATHER FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE APPROVING THE SIX FOOT FENCE AND THEN KEEPING IT LIKE WE ALWAYS DO WITH FOUR FEET. UNLESS THAT'S AN ISSUE. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT, I DON'T SEE WHY, I DON'T SEE HOW THIS, THIS IMPROVES HER SITUATION. SO IF I UNDERSTAND IT, THE CYCLONE FENCE IS DAMAGED AND THAT'S ALLOWING THE DOGS OUT. YES. IF YOU REPLACE IT WITH A FOUR FOOT FENCE IN THE FRONT, THEY'RE JUST GONNA HOP OVER THAT, RIGHT? YES. AND IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE PLANNING TO DO SIX FEET, UH, IN THE BACK AND SIDES ANYWAYS, RIGHT? RIGHT. YES. YEAH. SO THE, THE CONCERN IS, IS A FIVE FOOT FENCE IN THE FRONT IN THE WROUGHT IRON WILL ADDRESS THE DOG ISSUE. EXACTLY. SO THE MOTION WOULD BE JUST TO APPROVE, UH, AS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT FOR THE FIVE FOOT RIGHT IRON FENCE IN THE FRONT. AND STAFF HA IS INDICATING NO PROBLEM WITH THE SIX FOOT, UH, THROUGHOUT THE REAR AND THE SIDES. THAT'S THE MOTION. I SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE, MR. CHAIR? OH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IS IT CLARIFIED WHERE THE REAR FENCE STOPS? IS IT, YEAH, THERE'S A DIAGRAM. THERE'S A DIAGRAM, YES, THERE IS. JUST ONE SECOND. AND I ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE STAFF HAS DESIGN OF THE WR IRON FENCE ALSO, UH, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT IN THE STIPULATION AND USUALLY YOU ADD THAT TO THE STIPULATIONS. SO MAYBE WE CAN ADD THAT. YES. UM, THAT THE STAFF, UM, THAT THE WR IRON FENCE MEET THE UM, UM, THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS FINAL AND THAT THE APPLICANT DESIGN OF THE FIVE FOOT WR IRON FENCE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT THE FINAL DESIGN OF THE WR IRON FENCE PRIOR TO INSTALLATION THAT YOU'D SHOW STAFF AND STAFF WOULD APPROVE THE WR IRON DESIGN. OKAY. SO WHOEVER DOES YOUR WORK TO TELL 'EM TO GIVE YOU A DRAWING THAT YOU SUBMIT TO THEM SO THAT THEY CAN TELL YOU WHETHER IT'S OKAY OR NOT FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE. OKAY. DOES THE SECOND OCCUR? I DON'T WANNA FINISH IT. OKAY. YES. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. S AYE FISH IS ABSENT. S AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. ABSENT. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE ES? YES, THAT. AYE. AND LA AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NOW MOTION TO ADN. NOW MOTION TO ADJOURN. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? MOTION TO AJOUR. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. YES. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND MERRY CHRISTMAS. THANK CARE OF CHRISTMAS EVERYONE. MERRY CHRISTMAS. TAKE CARE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.