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THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
THIS IS OUR PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE MEETING OF THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES, APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD.
THIS IS THE FIRST MEETING OF THE PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE.
UH, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE'RE GONNA DO OUR INTERPRETATION VIDEO FOR ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE OR ANYBODY ONLINE THAT NEEDS ANY INTERPRETATION OF AVAILABLE TO THEM.
[ Roll Call ]
ALL RIGHT.MARK ROSS, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UH, ON THE MICROPHONE? YEAH, SORRY.
UH, WE HAVE QUORUM WITH THREE OUT FOUR PRIMARY PRESENT.
UH, SPENCER ROMMEL IS THE ALTERNATE TO GEORGE SALIBA FOR ANY VOTING PURPOSES.
UH, RIGHT NOW, GEORGE WILL TAKE THAT VOTE OF THE THREE OUT OF FOUR.
UM, SPENCER IS HERE, UH, FOR A DISCUSSION AND IF GEORGE NEEDED TO STEP AWAY TO BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR HIM, UH, RIGHT NOW, IF THERE'S ANY OPEN OR PUBLIC COMMENTS, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS FROM THE OUTSIDE.
I'M NOT SURE IF ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC AT THIS TIME WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.
UH, THAT BEING SAID, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, I ASK, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? GEORGE AND SPENCER, THE SAME GROUP.
THEY'RE ON THE SAME GROUP? YES.
SO, WELL, WE HAVE THREE OUT OF FOUR PRIMARIES, WHICH IS YOURSELF, GREG, AND GEORGE.
[ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items ]
UH, SO THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO GO AHEAD AND VOTE TO APPOINT A COMMITTEE CHAIR AND CO-CHAIR FOR THIS COMMITTEE.IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION ON THAT, I RECOMMEND GEORGE FOR THE CHAIR OR CO-CHAIR, PLEASE, FOR THE CHAIR.
OKAY, GEORGE, I'LL HAND IT OFF TO YOU FOR THE CO-CHAIR VOTE.
I'LL, UH, GO AHEAD AND NOMINATE MARK.
AND YOU'LL HAVE TO CALL THE VOTE GEORGE.
YOU'LL HAVE TO CALL THE VOTE FROM NOW ON.
NOW THAT YOU'RE THE CHAIR, YOU'LL, YOU'LL KIND OF RUN THROUGH THE RINGLEADER FOR US.
SO YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT A PRIMARY IN A SECOND, SO YOU CAN CALL FOR A VOTE TO APPROVE MARK.
SINCE WE HAVE PRIMARY OR THE, UH, CHAIR AND CO-CHAIR, UH, SELECTED, UH, I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE FLOOR UP FOR A VOTE.
UH, SO THAT CONCLUDES THIS AGENDA ITEM WITH, UH, GEORGE LIVA BEING THE CHAIR FOR THE COMMITTEE.
AND MARK ROSS BEING THE CO-CHAIR FOR THE COMMITTEE.
UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, UH, OPENS IT TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYBODY THAT Y'ALL WANT TO ADD TO THE PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE AT THIS TIME.
I MOVE THAT WE ADD JOE ONTO OUR COMMITTEE.
I SECOND, UH, JOE LAOS FOR CONFIRMATION.
I WILL NOW OPEN THE FLOOR UP FOR A VOTE.
UH, ACCEPTING THAT JOE AS OUR, UH, HE'D BE A, HE'D BE A PRIMARY ON THE COMMITTEE TO BE A PRIMARY ON THE COMMITTEE.
UH, THAT'S YOU UNANIMOUS DECISION TO ADD JOE LAOS TO THE COMMITTEE FOR ROLL CALL PURPOSES.
SO, UH, JUST AS AN UPDATE TO THE ROLL CALL, WE CURRENTLY HAVE FOUR OF THE FIVE BOARD MEMBERS HERE WITH JOE LAOS.
UH, ROBERT JONES IS NOT PRESENT.
AND WE HAVE SPENCER ROMMEL, UH, PRESENT AS AN ALTERNATE TO GEORGE LIBA CHAIR.
NOW WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE, WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT.
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A REQUEST, UH, REAL FAST, UM, IF THE CHAIR'S OKAY WITH US MOVING TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER.UH, SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX IS THE SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 10 THAT PERTAIN TO LICENSING AND REGISTRATION OF, UH, CONTRACTORS AND WHAT THAT ENTAILS, UH, FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
THIS ONE SHOULD BE A FAIRLY QUICK ONE, SO I KIND OF WANTED TO KNOCK IT OUT REAL FAST.
I ACTUALLY WON'T BE PRESENT FOR THE NEXT TWO COMMITTEE MEETING MEETINGS FOR THE PLUMBING, AND I KINDA OVERSEE THIS PART OF IT.
SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE GET THIS WRAPPED UP TODAY SO WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT AND THEN MOVE INTO, UM, IF THE CHAIR'S OKAY WITH THAT.
UH, COULD YOU TELL US WHERE WE ARE AGAIN? UH, CORRECT.
SO THIS ISN'T ON THE PAMPHLETS THAT Y'ALL HAVE.
UH, FOR THIS MEETING SPECIFICALLY, IT'S, IT'S ON, UM, THE CHAPTER 10 THAT WE ADOPT, UH, PERTAINING TO REGISTRATION AND AND LICENSING OF, OF CONTRACTORS.
UH, SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS ONE IS IRRIGATION SYSTEMS IRRIGATORS AND STATE LICENSED RESPONSIBLE MASTER PLUMBING REGISTRATION FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WOULD BE GOOD.
UH, SO REAL FAST, JUST KIND OF A BRIEF HISTORY ON THIS ONE.
AND, UH, WE DO HAVE TWO COMMITTEE MEMBERS THAT WERE PART OF THE MECHANICAL CODE COMMITTEE.
UH, WE DISCUSSED THIS IN OUR LAST MEETING.
UH, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS JUST CLEAN THIS UP.
SO WE, WHAT WE HAVE IS WE HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE FOR EACH DIFFERENT TYPE OF CONTRACTOR, WE HAVE A SECTION, A SUBSECTION, OTHER CHAPTER 10, UH, THAT KINDA SETS REGULATIONS ON WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO BE REGISTERED WITH THE CITY.
UM, THE TRADE PERMITS, OF COURSE, ARE ALL, ARE THE TRADE CONTRACTORS ARE ALL LICENSED BY THE STATE AND MECHANICAL, ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING, MECHANICAL DOES HAVE A FEW THAT ARE STILL LICENSED BY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO THAT ARE KIND OF GRANDFATHERED IN.
THERE'S NOBODY THAT CAN ACTIVELY GET RE-LICENSED, BUT THEY CAN, ANYBODY THAT IS LICENSED CAN CONTINUE TO STAY LICENSED.
SO THEY GET CONTINUED EDUCATION AND, AND BE CONTINUED REGISTRATION, BUT THAT'S KIND OF BEING PHASED OUT REALLY.
CITY OF SAN ANTONIO LOOKS AT IT AS, WE DON'T LICENSE ANYBODY.
WE REGISTER THEM, UH, WITH THE CITY SO THEY CAN PULL PERMITS AND, UH, WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE.
UM, SO THE TRADES, ONCE AGAIN ARE LICENSED BY THE STATE.
THEY HAVE TO SHOW US, HEY, HERE'S MY LICENSE, AND THAT'S REALLY ALL THAT'S NEEDED.
THERE'S NO FEES AND IT'S JUST A REGISTRATION.
AND IT KIND OF WORKS WITH ALSO GETTING THEM INVOLVED.
SO WHEN WE PULL ISSUE PERMITS, WE KNOW, YES, THIS PERMIT'S BEING ISSUED TO A LICENSED INDIVIDUAL BY THE STATE.
UH, THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THAT IS, UM, HOME BUILDERS AND HOME REMODELS.
THOSE ARE NOT LICENSED BY THE STATE, SO WE DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT EXTRA REQUIREMENTS FROM THEM.
THEY DO HAVE TO DO A BACKGROUND CHECK, UM, PROOF OF INSURANCE AND STUFF LIKE THAT BEFORE THEY REGISTER WITH THE CITY.
UH, BUT WHAT WE WANNA TALK ABOUT TODAY IS SPECIFIC TO, UH, PLUMBING.
SO IRRIGATION AND PLUMBERS AS, AS MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, YOU'RE KIND OF AWARE OF OUR INVESTIGATIONS TEAM, UH, GOING OUT AND, UH, LOOKING AT PEOPLE THAT ARE PERFORMING WORK WITHOUT PERMITS OR NOT CALLING IN INSPECTIONS.
AND PART OF THAT, WE'VE, WE'VE SUSPENDED OR REVOKED VARIOUS REGISTRATIONS SO THAT DOESN'T REVOKE OR SUSPEND ANYBODY'S LICENSE WITH THE STATE.
THIS IS REALLY JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T DO BUSINESS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
WHAT WE WON'T IS WE WON'T ALLOW YOU TO PULL PERMITS OR COMPLETE INSPECTIONS IF YOU'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE RULES, WHICH ARE OUTLINED UNDER THIS CHAPTER 10.
UH, SO IT'S KIND OF AN ADDITION TO THE STATE REQUIREMENTS.
WHAT WE WANNA DO IS WE'RE TRYING TO SHORTEN CHAPTER 10.
YOU KNOW, IT'S ABOUT 160 PAGES RIGHT NOW.
UH, WE KIND OF HAVE THAT REQUIREMENT UNDER EACH OF THESE SUBSECTIONS.
SO WE WANT TO KIND OF CREATE A SECTION THAT KIND OF JUST TALKS ABOUT, UM, WHAT IT MEANS TO BE REGISTERED AND KIND OF THE REGISTERING PROCESS FOR EACH OF THE TRADES.
SO WE'RE GONNA KIND OF PULL THAT OUT AND HAVE A LITTLE SUBSECTION THAT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT MEANS TO BE REGISTERED IN THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT.
AND IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE ANY TYPE OF SUSPENSION THAT 30, 60, 90 DAYS AND FULL REVOCATION, ALL OF THAT WILL BE PULLED OUT AND, AND PUT INTO ITS OWN LITTLE SUBSECTION.
AND THEN EACH TRADE WILL THEN JUST BE REFERENCED BACK TO THE SUBSECTION FOR AS PROP, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS FOR BEING REGISTERED WITH THE CITY.
UM, WHAT I DID WANNA POINT OUT, IF YOU'LL GO TO SECTION, UH, 1 1 8, WHICH IS FOR THE PLUMBING, WHAT WE ARE, WE'RE GONNA KIND OF USE THIS AS OUR TEMPLATE MOVING FORWARD.
SO WE WANT TO GET ALL OF THESE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WERE TO READ THROUGH THE MECHANICAL ELECTRICAL, THEY ALL SAY DIFFERENT THINGS AND THAT'S REALLY NOT CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE.
WE WANT EVERYBODY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, LICENSED BY THE STATE TO KIND OF HAVE THE SAME FILL WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT WE'RE PUTTING INTO CHAPTER 10.
AND THIS ONE'S NOT, DOESN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT TO IT BECAUSE WE REALLY KIND OF PUT EVERYTHING BACK TO WHATEVER THE STATE REQUIRES WE REQUIRE.
SO WE'RE GONNA KIND OF MIMIC THIS.
WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY PROPOSED CHANGES FOR EITHER OF THE TWO ITEMS, UH, FOR PLUMBING.
AND THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO GET THIS ONE WRAPPED UP AND KIND OF, UH, DISCUSSED REAL FAST.
BECAUSE THE GOAL IS TO KIND OF SAY, LOOK, EVERYTHING THAT WE DO FOR PLUMBING IS KIND OF JUST PUSH IT BACK TO WHATEVER THE STATE REQUIRES EXCEPT FOR THE REGISTRATION.
AND THE REGISTRATION WILL BE NOW ITS OWN LITTLE SEPARATE SECTION THAT SAYS, LOOK, YOU KNOW, COME IN, GET REGISTERED, SHOW US YOUR, YOUR STATE LICENSE, WE'LL REGISTER YOU WITH THAT.
AND AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT HAVING ANY ISSUES WITH PULLING PERMITS, DOING INSPECTIONS, UH, ANY THINGS LIKE THAT, WE'LL HAVE THAT ABILITY TO REVOKE OR SUSPEND ANY REGISTRATION WITH THE CITY.
ONCE AGAIN, THAT DOES NOT AFFECT THEIR LICENSE FOR THE STATE.
IT JUST LIMITS WHAT THEY CAN DO IN THE CITY.
UH, THE GOAL WITH THAT IS, YOU KNOW, TO, TO GET, TAKE CARE OF THE BAD ACTORS, KEEP EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF THE, YOU KNOW, A
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LOT OF OUR CONTRACTORS IN THIS CITY DO A GREAT JOB OF PULLING THEIR PERMITS, DOING THEIR INSPECTIONS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY DO COME AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE ISSUES WITH THOSE THAT AREN'T DOING THAT PROCESS.AND, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES UNDERCUT THEM ON BIDS AND STUFF LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO GO TO THE CITY.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S DOING IT PROPERLY.
UM, AT THIS POINT I JUST WANNA SEE, IS THERE ANY, ANY ITEMS OR ANY CONCERNS FROM THE COMMITTEE? I, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
SO ON INSURANCE, THE CITY IS GOING TO GO TO THE STATE WEBSITE AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE INSURANCE ON FILE WITH THE STATE.
I'M NOT SURE IF WE GO THAT FAR 'CAUSE I THINK THE STATE HANDLES THAT ON THEIR OWN.
THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UM, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A LICENSE FROM THE STATE, THAT MEAN YOU MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THE STATE REQUIRES YOU TO PROVIDE, IF IT'S INSURANCE BACKGROUND, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF.
SO WE JUST DEPEND ON THE LICENSE AND ISSUE THE REGISTRATION.
SO CAN WE GO TO NUMBER ONE? 'CAUSE IT SAYS SOMEWHERE IN THERE IF YOU'RE USING THAT AS THE TEMPLATE THAT SOMEBODY'S GOING ON AND VERIFYING THROUGH THE BOARD'S INTERNET WEBSITE, THE INSURANCE.
SO IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE DOING THAT, AND WE'RE JUST GONNA ASSUME THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY JUST IN THE MASTER, TAKE THAT OUT.
SPENCER RAMEL, I THINK THIS IS B INSURANCE REQUIRED.
UH, SPENCER AZO WITH BENCHMARK PLUMBING.
LAST TIME I HAD AN ISSUE, UH, AND I, I'D GOTTEN WITH YOU ON IT, JEREMY, ABOUT HAVING MY PERMITS REPOPULATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR.
AND I THINK YOU, I BELIEVE YOU GUYS DID GO, I, I SPOKE WITH SOMEBODY DOWN AT D S D AND THEY DID GO THROUGH THE STATE BOARD.
THEY DO LOOK AT IT TO CHECK THAT IF THE, UH, INSURANCE IS CURRENT THROUGH THE TEXAS STATE BOARD PLUMBING EXAMINER.
SO I BELIEVE IN FACT YOU GUYS ARE DOING THAT.
YEAH, I MEAN THAT, I MEAN, THAT MIGHT BE WITH AN INITIAL REGISTRATION, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE, UH, DOING EVERY SINGLE TIME.
LIKE, WE DON'T DO THAT EVERY SINGLE TIME.
A LOT OF THAT'S ACTUALLY AUTOMATED.
UM, I THINK YEAH, I THINK IT'S JUST A YEARLY RENEWAL.
THEY JUST CHECK IT AND SO IT'S BEING DONE.
I, YOU SAID THAT WE WEREN'T AND IT SAYS YOU ARE AND SO I IT SHOULD JUST BE BECAUSE THIS IS A SHALL THING.
YEAH, NO, IT'S MORE OF A CONTINUOUS THING.
SO WE WILL CHECK IT ANNUALLY, UH, BUT WE DON'T CHECK IT CONTINUOUSLY EVERY TIME A PERMIT IS PULLED OR INSPECTION REQUESTED.
SO THIS IS GONNA BE THE LANGUAGE.
YOU'RE JUST GONNA HAVE SOME GENERAL LANGUAGE TO THIS EFFECT.
NOW WHAT HAPPENS, ARE THERE, UH, LICENSEES FOR PLUMBERS THAT HAVE CITY LICENSES? NO.
SO THERE'S, MECHANICAL IS THE ONLY ONE THAT IS LICENSED BY THE CITY.
SO EVERYTHING WOULD BE REGISTRATION ONLY, THE ONLY REFERENCES TO LICENSES WOULD BE TO THE STATE LICENSE ISSUED.
AND ONCE AGAIN, WE'LL, WE'RE KIND OF GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES.
'CAUSE ALL, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE'S BEING IMPACTED BY THIS AND WE'LL PRESENT A FINAL ONE TO THE FULL BOARD.
'CAUSE IT DOES KIND OF IMPACT ALL THE, UH, DIFFERENT THINGS.
WE, RIGHT NOW WE'RE KIND OF JUST LOOKING FOR SOME GUIDANCE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT STEPPING OVER.
SO LIKE ON THE MECHANICAL COMMITTEE, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT ONE, WE HAD A LOT MORE REGULATIONS, THINGS THAT WERE KIND OF EXCEEDING AND ARE VAGUE FROM WHAT THE COM, UH, STATE SAYS.
AND THE GUIDANCE WE RECEIVED BACK FROM THE COMMITTEE WAS TO KIND OF SAY, LOOK, FOCUS ON WHAT THE STATE DOES PUSH, YOU KNOW, LIKE ENFORCE WHAT THE STATE DOES OR REFERENCE THE STATE DOVE.
YOU KNOW, WE, SOME OF THAT STUFF WE DON'T ACTUALLY ENFORCE.
WE JUST KIND OF JUST REITERATE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GONNA BE DOING WORK IN THE CITY, WE NEED YOU TO FOLLOW THE STATE.
UH, BUT WE, WE TRY NOT TO BE MORE STRICT ON ITEMS THAN WHAT THE STATE.
AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE PRESENTING HERE AS WELL.
UH, THE FINAL VERSION OF ALL THIS, WE'LL GO BEFORE THE FULL BOARD AND GET REVIEWED.
UH, RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, REACHING OUT TO EACH OF THE COMMITTEES AND MAKING SURE WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO THE INDUSTRY THAT, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T SEEM CORRECT OR THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT AND GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
AND THE ONLY PERSON THAT NEEDS TO GET A BACKGROUND CHECK IS THE HOME CONTRACTOR.
JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THROUGH THE STATE.
SO I KNOW THE STATE LICENSES HAVE REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT TYPE OF STUFF.
AND YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S WHERE WE RELY ON THE STATE LICENSE FOR THOSE.
BUT BECAUSE THE, SO IT'S A HOME, NEW HOME BUILDS AND, UH, REMODEL.
SO THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT REGISTRATION PROCESSES FOR THAT, BUT THOSE ARE THE ONLY ONES REQUIRED.
AND THAT'S FOR RESIDENTIAL USE ONLY.
UH, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE FOR A CONTRACTOR.
AND WHAT GROUP IS GOING TO BE DEALING WITH THAT? WHAT, WHICH OF THE, AS FAR AS SUBCOMMITTEE IS GONNA BE DISCUSSING WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRING? WE'LL LOOK AT THAT UNDER THE I R C.
SO IT'D BE THE SAME COMMITTEE THAT DOES THE, UH, THE BUILDING CODES AND FIRE CODES AND ALL THAT JUST BECAUSE OF THAT.
BUT IT'S ULTIMATELY THE RESIDENTIAL CODE THAT IS IMPACTED BY THIS.
UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE? COMMITTEE AND OF COURSE AT ANY OTHER, OTHER MEETINGS, IF Y'ALL WOULDN'T LIKE TO BRING THIS BACK UP, IT'LL ALWAYS BE ON THE AGENDA.
SO IF Y'ALL JUST, IF Y'ALL DO KIND OF GO THROUGH IT AND YOU ALL WANNA BRING SOME STUFF BACK, I JUST WANTED TO OPEN THAT DIALOGUE SINCE I WON'T BE HERE.
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CONSTANTINO OR, UH, SOMEBODY WILL BE HERE THAT CAN DISCUSS THAT WITH Y'ALL AS WELL.UM, I, I DON'T THINK, I'M SORRY, COUNSEL'S NOT HERE, BUT I MEAN WE DON'T JUST 'CAUSE IT'S AN AGENDA ITEM, WE CAN, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY ACTION ON IT.
SO WE CAN JUST MOVE ON TO OKAY.
THEN, UH, CHAIR, I'LL, I THINK WE'RE ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE IF EVERYBODY'S CONCLUDED WITH AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX.
SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE IS LOOKING AT THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE AND PROPOSING CHANGES TO CURRENT AMENDMENTS THAT WE'D BE SUBMITTED TO THE FULL BOARD FOR APPROVAL.
UH, AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, CRYSTAL, I'M NOT SURE, IS TODAY ONLY THE I P C OR DO WE FEEL LIKE WE'LL MOVE INTO FUEL GAS CODE OR I R C? TODAY IS ONLY I P C.
SO AGENDA ITEMS NUMBER FOUR AND FIVE ARE THE FUEL GAS CODE AND THE, UH, I R C, UM, PLUMBING SE UH, SECTIONS FOR ANYTHING PERTAINING TO PLUMBING SYSTEMS IN THE INTERNATIONAL RE RESIDENTIAL CODE.
UM, SO WE DO HAVE THOSE ON THE AGENDA.
SO IF THERE ARE ANYBODY FROM THE COM, UM, AUDIENCE THAT DOES WANT TO SPEAK ON ANY OF THOSE AND THE CHAIR IS WILLING TO DISCUSS THAT.
Y'ALL DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO DISCUSS OUTSIDE OF THE I P C, BUT I THINK EVERYTHING ON THIS AGENDA ITEM, UH, AS CRYSTAL WAS SAYING, WE'RE GONNA, WHAT CITY STAFF IS GONNA STEP THROUGH WILL BE JUST THE I P C FOR TODAY AND I WILL HAND IT OVER TO CRYSTAL.
CRYSTAL GONZALEZ, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UH, WE HAVE MIKE MORALES, CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR.
HE'S OUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT.
SO WE'LL BE LOOKING TO MIKE FOR SOME OF THE HISTORY ON THESE SECTIONS, BUT WE'LL BE GOING OVER, I HAVE ONE FOR YOU.
SO THIS SPREADSHEET AND TOTAL, I THINK THESE ARE, UM, 71 I P C ITEMS. SO WE DON'T HAVE FUEL GAS IN HERE OR RESIDENTIAL.
UM, SO THIS YEAR WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT ADOPTING THE I R C, UH, FOR ALL TRADES.
SO CURRENTLY WE DON'T ADOPT THE PLUMBING CHAPTERS OF THE I R C, WE JUST REFERENCED BACK TO THE I P C EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE OF SECTIONS LIKE 29 0 4 RIGHT.
FOR RESIDENTIAL SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. UM, BUT WE WILL BE LOOKING AT THAT MORE IN DEPTH TO, UH, TO ADOPT THOSE, UH, PLUMBING CHAPTERS OF THE I R C.
SO WE'LL DISCUSS THOSE LATER ON IN A, IN A COUPLE MEETINGS.
BUT JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU GUYS A HEADS UP THAT THAT'S DIRECT THE DIRECTION THAT WE ARE HEADED AS A, AS AN OPTION, AS A PROPOSAL.
SO WE'LL START WITH, UH, ITEM ONE AND WE'LL GO THROUGH, WE'LL GO THROUGH EACH SECTION.
UH, THE TITLE OF THE SECTIONS IS THERE, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF, UH, IS ALSO THERE A SUMMARY OF THE CHANGE.
UM, AND THEN IF THAT'S A HEALTH LIFE SAFETY ITEM OR POTENTIALLY AN INCREASE IN CONSTRUCTION COSTS.
UH, AND THEN WE'RE HOPING TO UPDATE THAT LAST COLUMN FOR, UM, FOR ACTION ITEM ON THE, ON A APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE THE RECOMMENDATION, WHICH AGAIN IS LISTED THERE.
SO WE'LL GO THROUGH EACH ITEM.
UM, WE HAVE A LOT OF AMENDMENTS, SO WE MAY, IF WHATEVER YOU GUYS WANNA DO, THEY'RE LISTED IN ORDER OF CODE SECTIONS.
SO IF WE WANNA FLIP BACK AND FORTH FROM THE CHAPTER 10 AMENDMENTS TO THE I P C, WE CAN DO THAT.
OR IF WE JUST WANNA HIT ON, UM, YOU KNOW, AMENDMENTS 'CAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF 'EM.
AND MAYBE WE, UH, AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH, WE CAN EVEN MAKE THAT, THAT DECISION.
WHAT ITEMS WE HIT? GEORGE LEE? I'D SAY JUST FOLLOW THE, THE, THE LIST WHICH YOU HAVE LAID OUT.
SO THE FIRST ONE IS AN UPDATE TO ONE 12.2 OF THE 2021 I P C.
UM, IT'S REALLY JUST, UM, LISTING OUT ADDITIONAL TEMPORARY CONNECTIONS THAT ARE, UM, THAT CAN BE APPROVED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.
WE JUST NEED TO UPDATE OUR CHAPTER 10 TO INCLUDE, UH, THE ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE.
UM, AND, UH, JEREMY CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT WE CAN MAKE A MOTION AT THE END TO APPROVE ALL OF THE AMENDMENTS THAT WE GO OVER.
WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION ON EACH ONE TO APPROVE IT, UM, AS WE GO.
SO WE CAN DO THAT COLLECTIVELY AT THE END.
SO, UM, ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS CHANGE? SUPER SIMPLE.
CAN YOU PUT THE ACTUAL AMENDMENT UP SO WE CAN SEE WHAT THE AMENDMENT IS? CHAPTER 10, UM, SECTION 10 DASH 13, 10 13.
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AND CRYSTAL FOR THE NEXT MEETING, CAN WE, CAN YOU ALL ALSO SEND US A COPY, A COPY OF THE AMENDMENTS YOU'RE PROPOSING? SO MAYBE WE CAN READ 'EM BEFORE THE MEETING.UM, THEY SHOULD ALL BE IN THIS SPREADSHEET.
YOU WANT TO, YOU WANT A COPY OF THE CHAPTER? OUR EXISTING, THE LANGUAGE? SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROPOSING AMENDMENTS.
DO Y'ALL HAVE THAT AMENDMENT ALREADY WRITTEN? YES.
IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED ON THE SUMMARY OF CHANGE.
I KNOW, BUT CAN WE GET THE ACTUAL, A COPY OF WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW SENT TO US? SURE.
THIS IS, THIS IS OUR EXISTING CHAPTER 10 AMENDMENTS.
UH, MARK, YOU ACTUALLY WANT, UH, CHAPTER 10? I DON'T NEED IT.
SO ANYBODY THESE CHAPTER 10 RIGHT BACK.
THIS IS, YEAH, AS LONG AS IT'S ON SCREEN ON.
UH, LOOK FOR TEMPORARY CONNECTIONS.
SORRY, I HAVE THE WRONG SECTION WRITTEN DOWN.
I THINK WE'RE LOOKING FOR THAT NOW.
SO WE, UH, WE DO HAVE THAT UP ON THE SCREEN.
IT WA IT WAS THE CORRECT SECTION.
WE JUST COULDN'T GET THAT TO COME UP.
SO JUST EXPANDING THE TEMPORARY CONNECTION HERE.
SO WE DON'T ADOPT CHAPTER ONE OF EACH OF THE CODES.
WE HAVE, UM, CONSOLIDATED THEM INTO OUR OWN CHAPTER ONE.
SO YOU'LL SEE IN OUR ORDINANCE, WE ADOPT CHAPTER TWO THROUGH WHATEVER CHAPTER OF EACH CODE.
SO WE'LL JUST UPDATE, UM, OUR PROPOSAL IS TO JUST UPDATE THIS TEMPORARY CONNECTION, UH, FOR SERVICE UTILITIES TO MATCH WITH THE 2021 I P C STATES FOR ME.
WE CAN KEEP MOVING ON THEN, UH, IF YOU WISH.
UH, SO THEN YOU WISH TO GO IN AND ACCEPT THE WRITTEN.
I, I THINK WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE OTHER, IN MECHANICAL, WE JUST LIKE 20 OF TIME, 30 OF'EM AT A TIME AND THEN TOOK A VOTE ON ALL OF 'EM RATHER THAN DOING AN, IT'S MORE LIKE HEAD NODS AND THUMBS UP FOR RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
OKAY, SPENCER, WE'LL DO IT THAT WAY.
AND ALL IN FAVOR,
WE GAVE THEM A RECOMMENDATION TO WRITE DOWN AND THEN WE DID AFTER WE DID LIKE 20 OF 'EM.
OR IF WE HIT SOMETHING THAT WE HAD A MAJOR DISAGREEMENT ON, WE MAKE A A PIECE PART OF ME.
SINCE I'M NOT HERE NEXT WEEK, I'D LIKE TO DO AS MUCH, AS MUCH AS WE CAN AND APPROVE.
'CAUSE I SAID I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF 'EM IN HERE THAT I HAVE HEARTBURN ON THAT I REALLY WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS WEEK.
WE CAN JUMP AROUND, UM, BRING UP OUR, UH, AMENDMENTS AGAIN, THE DEFINITIONS.
UH, YEAH, LET'S, I MEAN, LET'S GO AHEAD AND GO ON TO THE SECOND ONE FOR DEFINITIONS.
SO WE HAVE CURRENTLY SOME DEFINITIONS IN OUR CHAPTER 10.
UM, FOR GREASE INTERCEPTORS, WE'VE, UH, AMENDED THE DEFINITION FOR GRAVITY.
WE'VE INCLUDED IN F P A 70, UM, WHICH IDENTIFIES THAT AS A NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE.
UH, WE'VE ADDED DEFINITIONS FOR MED GAS PIPING ENDORSEMENT, MULTIPURPOSE RESIDENTIAL FIRE PROTECTION, SPRINKLER SPECIALIST ENDORSEMENT, RECLAIMED WATER, RECYCLED WATER.
UM, ACTUALLY ON PAGE 1 0 1 OR 10 DASH 82 IS THE ONE SPECIFICALLY FOR, SO THOSE ARE ONES THAT YOU'RE ADDED NEW FROM THE 2018 CODE.
SO THESE ARE CURRENT DEFINITIONS THAT WE HAVE THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO CARRY OVER AND ADOPT TO APPLY TO 2021 CODES.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT MAKING ANY CHANGES TO THE CURRENT CHAPTER
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10 DEFINITIONS, CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, YES.THE NEXT TWO ITEMS, THREE AND FOUR ARE NEW DEFINITIONS IN THE 2021 I P C FOR PUBLIC AND PRIVATE AND FOR WATER DISPENSER.
SO THESE WERE A COUPLE THAT, UH, WERE, THAT WE IDENTIFIED AS SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.
NOW THESE ARE GOOD CLARIFICATIONS.
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH YOUNGER ENGINEERS OF WHAT'S PUBLIC, WHAT'S PRIVATE ON, ON PLUMBING FIXTURES.
SO I I LIKE BOTH OF THOSE THAT WERE ADDED TO THE I P C.
YOU GUYS ARE GOOD WITH THOSE NEW DEFINITIONS IN THE 2021.
OKAY, NEXT ITEM NUMBER FIVE, THIS IS OUR CURRENT AMENDMENT FOR 3 0 1 0.8 FOR ACCESSIBLE OPENINGS.
SO THIS AMENDMENT JUST IDENTIFIES THE SIZE OF OPENINGS WHEN ACCESSIBLE OPENINGS ARE REQUIRED.
MAYBE ONE OF THE ONES, UH, CAN YOU BRING UP THE AMENDMENT PLEASE? BRING UP THE CHAPTER 10.
UH, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE AFTER PAGE 1 0 2.
SO WE JUST ADDED THIS TO THE GENERAL SECTION TO IDENTIFY THE REQUIRED SIZE OF THOSE OPENINGS WHEN THEY'RE REQUIRED.
YEAH, THIS WASN'T THE ONE I THOUGHT I'M OKAY WITH THAT.
OKAY, THE NEXT ITEM IS OUR CURRENT AMENDMENT TO 3 0 1 OR WE ADDED 3 0 1 0.9, WHICH REQUIRES A SEPARATION OF, UM, OF PLUMBING, GAS AND SEWER OR WATER PIPING FROM ELECTRICAL LINES.
NOT, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE IN THE SAME DITCH.
I, I'D LIKE TO KNOW THE HISTORY OF THIS ONE.
AND DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT FOLLOW A SIMILAR THING? I KNOW PREVIOUSLY WE SAID WE WERE TRYING TO GET RID OF AMENDMENTS, AND SO IF THIS ONE'S NOT CURRENTLY IN THE CODE AND IT'S ALLOWED IN MOST OTHER JURISDICTIONS, WHY DO WE NEED THE AMENDMENT? AND SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, FOR THIS WOULD BE WHERE I'VE NORMALLY SEEN IT, THE EASIEST ONE IS, IS WELLS WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT A PRIVATE PROPERTY WITH A WELL ON IT.
THEY LAY THE, THE A HUNDRED, THE TWO 40 VOLT WIRING RIGHT IN NEXT TO THE PIPE.
AND I DON'T SEE THERE'S AN ISSUE.
I KNOW PROBABLY WHAT IT IS, IT'S AN EXCAVATION THAT PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT, BUT I, UH, IF IT'S NOT IN THE I, THE, UH, THE I P C, I DON'T SEE WHY WE'RE BRINGING IN AN AMENDMENT TO IT.
I MEAN, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WE KILLING EVERY YEAR WITH THIS EL ELSEWHERE IN THE WORLD WHERE THEY'RE NOT DOING THIS? MIKE, YOU WANNA TAKE THAT? GOOD MORNING CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR MIKE MORALES.
YOU GET YOUR ELECTRICAL LINE IN A SEWER OR WATER DITCH, THEY HAVE A WATER LEAK, SOMEBODY GOES OUT, EXCAVATING, UH, COULD POTENTIALLY, UH, SHOCK.
I WANT TO KNOW REAL NUMBERS BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, UH, THIS ISN'T IN THE I P C I'M DOUBTING, IT'S A MAJOR ISSUE.
I HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANYBODY DIGGING UP A WATER LINE BEING KILLED BY BEING ELECTROCUTED LATELY.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT COST TO OUR CONTRACTORS AND THE PEOPLE TO DO STUFF.
AND IF IT'S NOT IN THE NATIONAL CODE, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE BEING OVERLY SAFE.
I DON'T SEE IT AS A, AS A MAJOR ISSUE.
I SEE IT AS A NORMALLY OCCURRING SUBJECT IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
SO I I I RECOMMEND AGAINST THIS ONE, UH, GEORGE LEYVA, GEORGE PLUMBING, I BELIEVE IT'S LISTED IN THE, UH, ELECTRICAL CODE.
IF IT'S IN A DIFFERENT CODE, THEN I WOULD SUGGEST WE JUST PUT A SIMPLE REFERENCE, YOU KNOW, REFER TO N E C SECTION DA DA DA DA.
AND THAT WAY IT'S, IT'S IN THERE OTHER THAN DOING IT THIS WAY.
WELL, WE CAN TABLE THIS AND GET SOME MORE INFORMATION UNLESS THERE'S ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION FROM THE COMMITTEE.
SPENCER RAMSDALE, WHAT WOULD BE THE DISTANCE MIKE THEN THAT THEY WOULD BE REQUIRING LIKE A 12 INCH DISTANCE BETWEEN THE ELECTRICAL AND THE NO, 36 INCHES.
SO
BUT WHAT ARE, I THINK THAT'S CURRENTLY WHAT IT IS.
[00:30:01]
CORRECT.SO THESE ARE CURRENT AMENDMENTS? YES.
STAFF CAN DO SOME MORE RESEARCH ON THIS, SEE IF IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, UM, AND COME BACK TO YOU GUYS NEXT TIME WITH THAT INFO.
I GUESS, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA THINK TOO, IF IT'S VERTICALLY OR HORIZONTALLY, IS IT UNDERNEATH IT 36 INCHES? YOU KNOW, VERSUS HORIZONTALLY WITH THAT, YOU KNOW AS WELL.
UM, THE CODE LANGUAGE, THE AMENDMENT DOES SAY HORIZONTALLY.
BECAUSE THE MAIN PA, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THE MAIN POWER LINE WOULD BE IN A SEPARATE DITCH NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE THAT'S RUN BY C P S AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA DITCH IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S DITCHES TO RUN THAT.
THIS WOULD BE MORE FOR, I'M RUNNING A PIPE IN A HOT TUB OR SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YARD.
AND SO MY QUESTION IS, IS HAVE WE HAD ANY CASES WHERE SOMEBODY GOT ELECTROCUTED? BECAUSE IF IT, IF IT'S RUNNING TO SOME CIRCUIT THROUGH THE YARD, WOULDN'T IT HAVE TO BE ON A GROUND FAULT TO BEGIN WITH? GROUND FAULT? WELL, I, I WOULD BELIEVE THAT, UH, MOST OF THE, THE CONCERN IS THE EXPOSURE.
IF YOU HAD A WATER LEAK AND YOU HAD THAT WATER LINE, UH, THE GAS LINE, THE GAS, I MEAN THE ELECTRIC LINES, THE P V C ISN'T SEALED.
IF THEY LEAVING THE ELECTRICAL IN THE SLAB OR IN THE GROUND, WOULD WATER INFILTRATE INTO THAT ELECTRICAL? AND WE GO TO DIG IT UP AND WE GET ELECTROCUTED STILL.
I BELIEVE THIS IS STATED IN THE ELECTRICAL CODE WHERE IT'S DEFINED TO STAY AWAY FROM PLUMBING, UH, DEALS.
NOW THAT WE, WE HAD A BIG PROJECT WHERE WE HAD TO LAY 300 FOOT OF SEWER.
THE ELECTRICAL METER WAS ALSO BEING RELOCATED AND THEY LAID IT IN THE SAME DITCH, BUT THEY WERE THREE FOOT OFF C P S MADE 'EM CUT A LEDGE.
'CAUSE OUR SEWER WAS EXTREMELY DEEP.
THEY MADE 'EM CUT A LEDGE AND LAY THAT, THAT, UH, ELECTRICAL LINE THREE FOOT OFF OUR SEWER.
SORRY, JUST WAITING TO THE NEXT MEETING TO GET SOME MORE INFORMATION.
I WAS GONNA SAY TOO, WITH C P S, THEY TYPICALLY WILL PUT THE, THE GAS AND THE ELECTRIC IN THE SAME DITCH.
UM, I MEAN THEY'RE TYPICALLY AROUND 36 INCHES APART FROM EACH OTHER, BUT THEY'RE ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
CCP HAS, C P S HAS THEIR OWN REQUIREMENTS TOO, EITHER GETTING THEIR ELECTRICAL DOWN THREE, THREE PLUS AND THEN, UH, COATING IT WITH SOMETIMES, UH, COLORED YELLOW, UH, COLORED SAND AND THEN PUTTING THEIR OTHER SERVICE ON TOP OF IT.
SO YES, THEY WILL HAVE THAT CLEARANCE, UH, IN BETWEEN THEM.
LET'S, LET'S JUST SEND THAT BACK FOR YOU GUYS TO DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH.
I, AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF, IF OUR OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE, ARE AMENDING THAT OR IF IT'S IN SOME OTHER CODE, IF IT, LIKE I SAID, IF IT'S IN N E C, LET'S JUST PUT A CROSS REFERENCE RATHER THAN, THAN PUTTING IT IN THE, OKAY, WE'LL TABLE THAT ONE.
UM, THE NEXT ITEM IS CURRENT CSA AMENDMENT 3 0 1 POINT 10 FOR SUPPORT THAT REQUIRES EXTERIOR EQUIPMENT BEYOND A LEVEL CONCRETE SURFACE, NOT LESS THAN THREE INCHES ABOVE ADJOINING GROUND LEVEL.
CAN YOU SHOW THAT AMENDMENT AGAIN PLEASE? WHAT DOES THE CODE REQUIRE? DOES THE BASE CODE, ARE WE LOWERING IT, INCREASING IT, OR ADDING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN THERE? I THINK LAST TIME I RE I RECALL THIS ONE WAS, UH, PEOPLE WERE PUTTING LIKE WATER SOFTENERS ON THE OUTSIDE OF HOUSES.
UM, AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE REGARDING AS THE EQUIPMENT SIDE OF IT.
SO IT WAS JUST SAYING THAT THEY WERE GONNA REQUIRE TO HAVE A PLATFORM THERE FOR IT? YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.
UH, PEOPLE WERE INSTALLING WATER SOFTENERS ON THE OUTSIDE AND EVEN SOME WATER HEATERS, UH, THEY WERE JUST PUTTING ON SOLID EARTH.
SO AS TIME GOES ON, UH, AREA GETS WET, UM, DAMAGES THE EQUIPMENT.
SO THAT'S WHY THAT WAS WRITTEN ON THERE.
SO IF YOU HAVE A STEP UP AND YOU PUT THE THING 12 INCHES ABOVE THE FLOOR FINISHED GRADE, THAT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED.
[00:35:02]
THIS JUST SAYS NOT LESS THAN THREE INCHES.SO AT LEAST THREE INCHES ABOVE GROUND LEVEL ADJACENT GRADE IS ADJOINING LEVEL DEALING WITH THE SLAB OR THE GROUND, THAT WOULD BE THE GROUND.
SO GROUND IS SAY GROUND INSTEAD.
YEAH, WE WERE GROUND IN THIS TERM IS MEANT TO BE SOIL OR GRAVEL.
IT IS NOT BUILDING SLAB OR, OR A OR A, UH, A WIDE SIDEWALK.
I GUESS THAT MAY BE THE MORE CLARIFICATION.
LIKE IF YOU HAD A SIX FOOT WIDE SIDEWALK THAT RAN AROUND THE SIDE OF YOUR HOUSE, YOU CAN SET YOUR WATER SOFTER RIGHT ON THAT SIDEWALK.
YOU DON'T REQUIRE A, A SEPARATE HOUSEKEEPING PAD TO BE POURED ON TOP OF THAT.
THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT THE, UH, IS HE FOR THE CONDENSER AS WELL? AC CONDENSER? MM-HMM.
NEXT ITEM IS CURRENT COA AMENDMENT 3 0 5 0.4 0.1 FOR SEWER DEPTH.
SO THE CODE ACTUALLY REQUIRES US TO PUT A NUMBER IN HERE FOR OUR JURISDICTION.
UM, AND THAT NUMBER IS 12 INCHES.
SO BUILDING SEWER SHALL BE INSTALLED NOT LESS THAN 12 INCHES BELOW FINISHED GRADE.
THIS OUR CURRENT AMENDMENT THREE 12.1 0.1 FOR TEST GAUGES.
IT SPECIFIES THE TEST GAUGE REQUIREMENTS.
ANY DISCUSSION WITH THAT? GO AHEAD AND PROCEED.
UH, THEN MIKE IS, IS THIS THE TEST GAUGES ARE, IS IT SPECIFIC TO NA UH, YOUR GAS OR FUEL GAS TEST? OR IS THIS ANY KIND OF GENERAL GAUGE, EVEN LIKE OUR PRESSURE GAUGE FOR WATER? DO YOU WANT IT? I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT, GEORGE.
UH, THE TEST GAUGES WERE THE CLASS ONE, UH, GAUGES, UH, WENT ON A FIVE 10 POUND INCREMENTS.
SO THE PRESSURE GAUGES, UH, DESIGNED TECHNICALLY WHATEVER THEY ARE, UM, WOULDN'T BE ADEQUATE FOR GAS.
AND SO THEN THE PRESSURE GAUGE.
SO THEN THE AMENDMENT IS RELATIVE TO JUST OUR NATURAL GAS TESTS? YES, SIR.
IT'S NOT OUR WATER PRESSURE TEST OR NO, THIS, THIS IS INDICATING A GAUGES BECAUSE IT'S REFERENCING TEST GAUGES.
THIS, THIS IS LITERALLY JUST THE AC IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S THE ACCURACY AND IT'S QUALITY.
BUT, BUT AGAIN, CONSIDERING WE WERE TOLD IN THE MECHANICAL SIDE, LET'S PULL AMENDMENTS THAT ARE NOT REQUIRED.
WHY DO WE NEED THIS? NO, THIS IS REFERENCING, UH, THE GAS GAUGES, UH, THE CLASS ONE A'S ONLY ON FUEL GAS, NOT REQUIRING, UH, ANYTHING ON PRESSURE, UH, DRAINAGE CHEST, UH, FUEL GAS.
BUT IF I'M READING THE, THE 3 1 12 OR 0.1 THAT IS PLUMBING SYSTEM PIPING SHALL BE TESTED WITH EITHER WATER.
IT, IT'S SAYING THIS IS THE GAUGES THAT ARE USED ACROSS ALL, ALL PIECES FOR ANYTHING.
SO IF WE WANT SOMETHING SPECIFIC TO FUEL GAS, THEN I WOULD SUGGEST IT'D BE AMENDED IN THE FUEL GAS CODE AND NOT A, NOT NECESSARILY HERE PERHAPS.
AND AGAIN, THIS, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ONES THAT SEEMS LIKE AN AMENDMENT THAT'S NOT NEEDED TO ME.
UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF WE TALK ABOUT NIST CALIBRATIONS OF, OF GAUGES AND WHAT A CONTRACTOR'S USING.
'CAUSE I MEAN I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THAT THING IF WE DON'T WANT THE GUY WHO WENT AND BOUGHT, I'M GONNA LAUGHINGLY TELL YOU THE, YOU KNOW, DOWN AT HOME DEPOT, UH, OR OUT OF THE BACK OF SOME GUY'S TRUNK AND IS TRYING TO USE THAT AS AN ACCURATE GAUGE.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS AN AMENDMENT THAT'S LOOKS LIKE IT'S IN SEARCH OF SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T NEED.
[00:40:06]
I DO AGREE.I DO AGREE YOU COULD MOVE IT OVER TO THE, TO THE FUEL CODE.
BUT, UM, AS FAR AS THE VARIANCES BETWEEN THE PRESSURE GAUGES, THIS WOULD BE LIKE A CLASS ONE A GAUGE AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A NATURAL GAS SYSTEM LIFE AND DEATH.
AND THEY CAN VARY QUITE A BIT FROM LIKE A STANDARD 150 POUND PRESSURE GAUGE VERSUS, UH, THE GAS GAUGES READ UP TO 15 P S I ON THERE.
SO THERE'S QUITE A BIG DIFFERENCE ON THERE.
AND LEAK DETECTION THERE, I WOULD RECOMMEND IT, RECOMMEND KEEPING IT HERE WHERE IT'S AT FOR TEST GAUGES.
BUT AGAIN, THIS, UH, MY CONCERN IS THE, THE PLUMBERS DON'T ALWAYS GO TO THE I I F C TO LOOK FOR IT.
THEY'RE LOOKING FOR EVERYTHING IN THE I P C YET.
I UNDERSTAND THE AMENDMENTS AS LONG AS MAYBE THERE'S A CLARIFICATION ON THESE TEST GAUGES BETWEEN GAS AND OR OTHER VACUUM TESTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO MAYBE EXPAND THIS AMENDMENT TO SPECIFY THE REQUIREMENT FOR GAS.
LET'S, AS MUCH AS I WANNA SAY TABLE THIS ONE, BUT SINCE I'M NOT GONNA BE HERE NEXT WEEK, THIS MIGHT BE, THIS IS ONE THAT I, I WANNA SEE REMOVED.
IF IT'S, IF IT'S GAS, IT NEEDS TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.
OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST, IT'S AN AMENDMENT FOR AN AMENDMENT'S SAKE.
SO COULD WE MAYBE COMPROMISE AND JUST ADD A TEST, UH, NUMBER FOUR THAT SAYS FOR FUEL GAS, THE GAUGE MUST BE GRADE ONE A OR BETTER PER THE STANDARD, RATHER THAN MAKING ALL THE TEST GAUGES COMPLY WITH THAT STANDARD.
I THINK ALSO WHAT THEY'RE REFERENCING IS HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEMS, UM, LIKE A SAW, NOT SAW C P S IS HAVING.
WHAT'S THIS BUILDING CALLED? UH, I'M SORRY.
THIS ALSO REFERENCES HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEMS. UH, C P S IS, UH, BUILDING A FEW STATIONS, UH, WHERE THEY ARE RUNNING, UH, 10 TO A HUNDRED P S I ON THEIR SYSTEM.
SO I GUESS WHAT THE, THE SECTION IS REQUIRING IF YOU HAVE THIS HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM, THEN UH, THIS GAUGE, UH, TYPE OF GAUGE WOULD BE UTILIZED ON IT, UH, INCREMENTS.
BUT THERE'S ONE P S I, BUT THERE'S GAS IN THIS CODE.
NATURAL GAS, WE DO HAVE MED GAS, BUT THERE'S NOTHING FOR NATURAL GAS IN THE I P C.
IF WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT NATURAL GAS AND THOSE REQUIREMENTS, LET'S MOVE IT TO THE, TO THE FUEL GAS CODE AND LET'S GET IT OUT OF THIS ONE.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER PLACES THAT THIS KIND OF GAUGE WOULD BE REQUIRED THAT DEALS WITH WATER OR SEWER? NO, THEY DO TEST, UH, D W V ROUGH INS.
UH, BUT WHEN WATER ISN'T AVAILABLE TO SOME ROUGH INS, THEY WILL USE THIS CLASS ONE A, UM, AS A TEST AND PURPOSES, SO THEY'LL PUMP IT UP TO FIVE P S I, AGAIN, KIND OF DANGEROUS, BUT IT'S ACCEPTABLE HAS BEEN, WHAT ARE THEY PUMPING TO? FIVE P S I THE ROUGH IN THE D W V D.
WHAT'S D W D DRAIN, WASTE AND VENT SANITARY SYSTEM.
WE LIKE DEEP LIKE DUNGEONS AND DRAGON.
UH, THE WAY I READ THE CODE IS THAT IT'S, IT'S, IT, IT'S RUNNING IT, IT IS CREATING A, A STANDARD FOR DIFFERENT PRESSURE TESTS.
YOU MAKE THE DEFINITION OR YOU MAKE THE DETERMINATION WHERE YOU'RE GONNA USE THAT GAUGE.
TO ME, TO ME THIS, THIS AS IT SETS, IT'S TELLING US THE FIDELITY OF THE GAUGE, YOU KNOW, IS, IS A ONE, DOES A ONE DEFINE PRECISION IN ACCURACY OR PAC? WELL IF PACING BETWEEN INDIVIDUAL UNITS, YEAH, BUT THAT'S RIGHT HERE IT SAYS IT'S ALREADY IN HERE THAT SAYS 10 POUND OR LESS.
IT'S GOTTA HAVE INCREMENTS OF A 10TH OF A P S I.
I SEE NO REASON TO KEEP THIS AMENDMENT IN HERE.
I MEAN, IF, IF WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT PRECISION INACCURACY, THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME THAN THE INCREMENTS ON THE GAUGE AND WERE COVERED BY THE INCREMENTS IN THE GAUGE BY THE EXISTING LANGUAGE.
AGAIN, I BELIEVE IT WAS WRITTEN ON HERE PROBABLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF
[00:45:01]
TESTING, UH, A ROUGH IN, UH, D W V.SO WOULD, SO WOULD ONE, TWO AND THREE NOT COVER THE SAME THING AS ONE A WHERE IT GIVES THE INCREMENTS THAT HAVE TO BE ON THE GAUGE? I'M TRYING TO LOOK AT THE A S M E STANDARD JUST TO SEE IF IT'LL COME UP.
HOW ABOUT WE DO THIS ONE? OF COURSE I WON'T BE HERE NEXT WEEK, SO YOU CAN IGNORE ME.
BUT LET'S, LET'S SEND THIS BACK TO, TO THE, THE, THE CITY STAFF.
LOOK UP WHAT THE A S M E STANDARD IS AND IF IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME THING, LET'S THEN WE'LL KNOW.
'CAUSE UM, I DID FIND A COPY OF IT ONLINE, BUT AGAIN, WE KNOW HOW RELIABLE EVERYTHING THAT'S ONLINE THESE DAYS IS.
UM, AND, AND AGAIN, I I I JUST LET US KNOW WHAT IT SAYS IN, IN THE AS A S M E STANDARD AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT LINE ITEM.
UM, AND LIKE GREG MENTIONED, WE ARE ALWAYS LOOKING TO REMOVE AMENDMENTS, UM, IF THE CODE HAS CAUGHT UP TO WHAT WE'VE PREVIOUSLY REQUIRED IN THE AMENDMENTS.
UM, OR IF THEY DON'T MAKE SENSE OR, UM, UH, OR IF WE CAN, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE NOT SEEING ANY ISSUES WITH THOSE, WE WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO REDUCE OUR AMENDMENTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
SO NEXT AMENDMENT, UM, THAT IS, UH, LINE ITEM 10, CURRENT AMENDMENT FOR THREE, 12.2 FOR DRAINAGE AND VENT.
WET WASTE WATER TEST, SORRY, REDUCES THE WATERHEAD TEST DEPTH FROM 10 FEET TO THREE AND A HALF FEET AND SPECIFIES THAT AN INSPECTION IS REQUIRED.
SO THIS WE FEEL IS ACTUALLY A REDUCTION IN CONSTRUCTION COST.
UM, A REDUCTION IN THE CODE REQUIREMENT.
AND THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THE ONES I WAS GONNA RECOMMEND THAT WE REMOVE FROM THE CODE.
IT'S AN AMENDMENT THAT'S NOT NEEDED AND I DON'T LIKE THREE, WHATEVER, THREE FEET IS, YOU HAVE A TWO STORY HOUSE, YOU'RE GUARANTEED YOU'LL BLOW A FITTING, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY BLOW A FITTING APART DEPENDING ON HOW YOU'RE TESTING AND USING THREE FEET.
SO THE CURRENT CODE REQUIRES 10 FEET OF HEAD CURRENT AGREE, CURRENT SAYS 10.
SO WE SHOULD NOT AMEND TO A LOWER STANDARD ON THIS PARTICULAR CASE.
YEAH, I'M GONNA DISAGREE ON THAT ONE TOO BECAUSE THIS IS BASICALLY DESIGNED FOR ROUGH ENDS AND ON SECOND FLOORS KEEP EVERYTHING CONSISTENT AT THE SAME LEVEL.
AND THEY'VE HAD A, A MATHEMATICAL BASICALLY, UH, CODE REQUIRES ONE 10 FOOT HEAD AND ALL THE OTHER HEAD SPEEDS, THERE'LL ONLY BE ONE, ONE HEAD.
AND WHAT WHAT BASICALLY HAPPENS IS IT CAUSES A LOT OF ERRORS, CAPS ON 'EM.
UM, IF THOSE CAPS POPPING OFF BECAUSE YOU GOT A 10 ON THERE WHERE IF YOU CUT 'EM AND RAISE EVERYTHING UP TO A HIGHER LEVEL TO ALL MAINTAINED LEVEL YOUR SYSTEM OVERALL THE TEST.
YOU FOR INSTANCE, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING OF THE WAY YOU'RE DESCRIBING IT, IS LIKE A, UM, ALMOST FOR A CLOSET FLANGE, YOU WOULD JUST TAKE THAT THREE OR FOUR INCH SANITARY COME THREE AND A HALF FEET, WHATEVER IT IS, WITH THE ACTUAL PIPE UP ABOVE GRADE.
YEAH, EVERYTHING WOULD BE, EVERYTHING HAS TO BE 40.
EVERYTHING WOULD BE 42 INCHES ABOVE THE SLAB.
ALL YOUR VENT PIPES WOULD BE THE EXACT SAME HEIGHT.
THEY'D BE RAISED UP FROM THE TWO FOOT REQUIREMENT TO 42 INCHES WITHOUT THE 10 FOOT HEAD ON IT.
UH, THEN SINCE WE'RE GONNA HAVE LOTS OF DISCUSSION ON THIS ONE, AND THIS IS MIGHT BE ANOTHER ONE TO KEEP US MOVING, LET'S SEND IT BACK TO THE CITY.
CHECK THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
IS ANYBODY ELSE USING THIS LOW? AND, YOU KNOW, IS, IS HOUSTON DALLAS? IS ANYBODY ELSE HAVE AN AMENDMENT FOR A LOWER AMOUNT? BECAUSE AGAIN, I GO BACK TO WE'RE TESTING TO A LOWER STANDARD THAN EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE STATE MIGHT BE.
AND AGAIN, WITH THE INTENT TO GET RID OF IT, I MEAN I'VE, I'VE USED 10, 10 FOOT EVERYWHERE ELSE I'VE PRACTICE ALL THE OTHER STATES THAT I PRACTICE IN.
SO THAT'S A, A VERY STANDARD NUMBER EVERYWHERE ELSE.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE DIFFICULTY IN MEETING THE STANDARD IN THE CODE IS VERSUS OTHER THAN YOU'RE BLOWING SOME, YOU KNOW, THE, I THINK FOR THE CITY IT'S GONNA CAUSE A LOT MORE INSPECTIONS ON THEM.
I, THERE'S A FEW CITIES THAT REQUIRE THAT AND JUST GETTING UP TO TEST, IF YOU CAN IMAGINE BEING ON TOP OF A ROUGH END AND YOU'VE GOT SLABS THAT FALL DOWN SIX FEET IN YOUR HIGHEST 10 FOOT STACK, YOU'D ALMOST NEED A LADDER TO GO UP THERE AND LOOK AT IT.
I MEAN, JUST FROM AN INSPECTION STANDPOINT, THE INSPECTORS CAN GO AND VISIBLY LOOK AT A PIPE THAT'S 42
[00:50:01]
INCHES HIGH.I MEAN THIS REALLY TO ME EQUATES SPECIFICALLY A LOT OF TIMES ON THE ROUGH END PHASE OF IT, YOU KNOW, UM, AS WELL AS THE TOP OUT PHASE AS WELL.
THEY MIGHT PUT A 20 FOOT STICK UP THERE, 15 FOOT STICK ON THERE.
HOW ARE WE GONNA KNOW YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THAT 10 FOOT HEAD? I KNOW THAT SOME, A LOT OF TIMES TOO, YOU GET AIR BUBBLES IN THE PIPES AS WELL.
I'VE SEEN 10 FOOT HEADS THAT THEY'RE NOT HOLDING WATER, BUT THEY DO HOLD WATER.
AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT SEPARATION OF THE LEVEL THERE, UM, TO FILL 'EM UP, I KNOW IT'S GONNA TAKE QUITE A BIT LONGER.
YOU'VE GOTTA GO BASICALLY CAP EACH SINGLE ONE OF 'EM.
YOU GOTTA USE THE RUBBER CAPS SO YOU CAN ENSURE THAT THEY, UH, THAT YOU'VE ACTUALLY GOT WATER IN THAT LINE, WHICH IS A COST TO THE CITY.
THOSE RUBBER CAPS ARE PROBABLY ABOUT, I I WOULD SAY AT LEAST EIGHT TO 10 TIMES MORE THAN LIKE A PLASTIC WAFER CAP.
DOES IT MAKE YOU, DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE? THREE AND A HALF VERSUS 10? WHAT? WHAT, IN OTHER WORDS, IF IT MAKES NO, UH, I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO GET RID OF STUFF, BUT A LOT OF TIMES THE NATIONAL CODE IS DEALING WITH SOMETHING WE DON'T NEED TO DEAL WITH.
AND SO IT WOULD ACTUALLY EVERY GOING TO THREE AND A HALF AND IT'S JUST ANOTHER SET OF WORDS ON THE PAPER.
I MEAN, FROM THE INSPECTION DEPARTMENT, DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IF YOU'RE CHECKING AT 42 INCHES VERSUS 10 FEET? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
UM, SOMETIMES CONTRACTORS HAVE A PROBLEM GIVING 42 INCHES.
SO IF WE ASK FOR THAT 42, I'M WONDERING WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WHEN WE ASK FOR A 10 FOOT HEAD AND ACTUALLY MEASURING THAT 10 FOOT HEAD WHERE AT 42 WE CAN VISUALLY SEE THAT WATER LEVEL, BE IT IN A WASHER BOX, BE IT ON A RISER OFF A LAVATORY KITCHEN OR WHEREVER THAT UH, TEST IS GONNA BE AT.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE LOWERING THE STANDARDS OF THAT TEST.
UM, SO, SO IN THIS THREE AND A HALF FOOT TEST, HOW ARE YOU TESTING THE OVERHEAD VENT LINES? YOU CAN'T, SO WHEN I, WHEN I'VE WITNESSED THE 10 FOOT TESTS, TYPICALLY WHEN I'VE WITNESSED THOSE, IT'S LITERALLY YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING.
YOU PUT THE RUBBER PLUGS IN, YOU GO TO THE ROOF, YOU FILL UP ALL THE WAY FROM THE, THE ROOF VENT.
AND THAT'S HOW YOU TELL IF IT'S FULL, YOU FILL THE ENTIRE ENTIRE SYSTEM.
AND I'VE SEEN IT, I'VE SEEN PLUMBING VENT PIPES BLOW APART BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T GLUED, THEY WEREN'T PROPERLY AFFIXED.
AND WITH THE THREE AND A HALF FOOT TEST, I SHOOK MY HEAD THE WRONG WAY.
WHEN YOU ASKED ME IS THERE A DIFFERENCE, THAT'S WHERE I SEE THE 10 FOOT HEAD COMING INTO PLAY BECAUSE YOU FILL THE ENTIRE SYSTEM WITH IT AND, AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY GET AN APP, UH, A TEST TO THE VENT SIDE ASIDE OF THINGS TOO, BECAUSE THE AIR'S PUSHED OUTTA THE VENT SIDE AND NOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE PUTTING THAT UP THERE.
IF YOU'RE DOING A 42 INCH TEST ON SLAB, YOU NEVER TEST THE VENT SIDE HIGHER THAN THAT.
BUT AT THAT POINT, THAT MEANS THE INSPECTOR AND SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE TO MEET THE INSPECTOR OUT THERE WITH A LADDER AND THE, THE CITY INSPECTOR PLUMBING INSPECTORS WHO NEVER GET ON THE ROOF ARE GONNA HAVE TO GET ON THE ROOF, WHICH IS GONNA SLOW DOWN EVERYBODY, INSPECTION TIME AND EVERYTHING.
SO IF IT REALLY, THE, THE OTHER WAY ON THE ROOF IS YOU, YOU PUT A, AGAIN, THIS GOES BACK TO OUR JOYOUS ACCURACY OF GAUGES, IS YOU CAN PUT A PRESSURE GAUGE ON THE SANITARY SIDE AND, AND ALMOST LIKE A HYDROSTATIC TEST AND JUST LOOK AT THE GAUGE AT A, AT A GROUND LEVEL YOU CAN SEE THAT.
BUT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS GOING, AND I HAVE A, FOR MY CONTRACTOR FRIENDS, IF YOU HAVE TO MEET THE INSPECTOR OUT THERE WITH A LADDER AND CLIMB ON THE ROOF WITH THE INSPECTOR, MY JOB JUST GOT LONGER AND MORE EXPENSIVE.
AND I, I MEAN, TO ME, IF IT REALLY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, WAIT TILL YOU'RE AN OWNER AND YOU SPEND $52,000 TRYING TO FIND OUT WHY YOU HAVE SEWER GAS IN A BUILDING.
WELL, I, I MEAN, I OWN BUILDINGS, SO I I I KNOW THAT, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS IF IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND IT'S NOT A SAFETY ISSUE AND IT'S NOT A PROBLEM WE COME ACROSS EVERY DAY, EASIER TO ME IS BETTER.
IF YOU, WE WANNA MAINTAIN THAT THE VENT PIPES ARE TESTED WITH THREE AND A HALF FOOT ON TOP OF THE VENT PIPE WHERE THOSE ARE RUNNING ACROSS HORIZONTALLY, THEN I, THEN I'D BACK OFF MY STATEMENT.
BUT WITH THREE AND A HALF FEET, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T TEST THE VENT SIDE OF THINGS WITH THE DESCRIPTION OF WHAT YOU'VE SAID.
LIKE I SAID, I'VE NEVER SEEN THE THREE AND A HALF FOOT RULE, NEVER SEEN IT IN PRACTICE.
SO I I WILL ASK IF THERE'S CLARIFICATIONS ON HOW YOU DO A, IN ESSENCE, A FINAL TEST ON, ON A BUILDING TO GET THREE AND A HALF FOOT OF HEAD EVERYWHERE IN THE SYSTEM.
I, I WOULD NOT TAKE ISSUE WITH THAT.
BUT IF I UNDERSTAND WITH THE WAY THIS THREE AND A HALF FOOT HEAD IS BEING USED, IT'S, IT'S LITERALLY BASICALLY THE SANITARY IS BEING FILLED WITH WATER, THREE AND A HALF FEET OF THE VENT PIPING, YOU
[00:55:01]
KNOW, LIKE IN A LAVATORY, THE, THE, THE STUB OUT MIGHT BE DOWN AT 24 INCHES.WE'RE ONLY GOING UP 42 ABOVE FLOOR, BUT NONE OF THAT.
BUT THEN THAT OVERHEAD VENT THAT CONTINUES UP INTO THE CEILING AND IS THEN CONCEALED, NEVER IS TESTED UNDER PRESSURE.
I MEAN, HAVE Y'ALL HAD A, A BUNCH OF CALLBACKS OR COMPLAINTS OF THE VENT PIPES NOT BEING CONNECTED OR AS FAR AS VENTS GOES? NO, UM, NO.
IN FACT, THIS WAS A CODE BACK IN THE EIGHTIES, I BELIEVE, WHERE WE WERE REQUIRED TO, UH, TEST EVENTS AND SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE IT GOT DROPPED OFF.
SO, UM, WE HAVEN'T TESTED VENTS 30 YEARS.
MY SUGGESTION IS, IS BECAUSE THIS IS CURRENT PRACTICE AND IT'S BEEN IN THE CODE FOR PROBABLY TWO OR THREE OR FOUR CODE CYCLES LIKE THIS, THAT WE LEAVE IT ALONE INSTEAD OF INCREASING THE REQUIREMENT.
THIS YEAH, I KNOW WE'VE BEEN DOING IT SINCE THE NINETIES, SINCE I'VE BEEN IN PLUMBING.
WELL LET, LET'S, I ALMOST WANNA FORCE A VOTE ON THIS ONE BECAUSE I, I, I WANNA RE THAT, RE THAT IF I'M NOT HERE NEXT WEEK, AND THIS GETS DISCUSSED, I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH ALLOWING THIS AMENDMENT.
IT'S NOT STANDARD PRACTICE IN MOST OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT I'VE EVER WORKED IN.
AND SO AGAIN, IT'S AN AMENDMENT THAT WE'RE, WE'RE RIGHT OUT THERE TELLING EVERYBODY WE'RE NOT TESTING THE VENT PIPING, WHICH IS RIGHT IN HERE.
SO, UM, DO WE WANT TO SEND THIS BACK TO THE CITY? DO WE WANT TO, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ONES I'M GONNA DIG MY HEELS IN AND, AND I WILL NOT RECOMMEND THAT THIS BE, THAT AMENDMENT BE ADOPTED TO THE CITY BECAUSE IT IS NOT STANDARD PRACTICE ANYWHERE ELSE OR VERY FEW OTHER PLACES.
WELL, IT DOES HAVE A POINT, UH, OR THE PURPOSE IS NOT TO DIMINISH OR REDUCE THE, THE STRICTNESS OF THE CODE.
I COULD TELL YOU IN TERRELL HILLS AND ALMA HEIGHTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND SAN ANTONIO, WE HAVE TO DO IT AT 10 FOOT.
I'M TELLING YOU, WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE, THE ROOF LIKE THAT.
WELL, WELL, AND I WORK IN ALL OF THEM.
RICHARD AND THE R WELL, BRUCE AND THEM, THEY, THEY DO LET US ONCE WE HIT THE SLAB, I'LL TELL YOU TERRELL HILLS, ALAMO HEIGHTS, IT'S ALL A 42 INCH ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
THERE'S NO OTHER CITIES AU SHIRTS.
WELL, IF WE'RE AT LEAST HITTING THE SECOND FLOOR, THEN THAT MEANS ALL THE VENT PIPING ON THE FIRST FLOOR IS AT LEAST BEING PRESSURIZED.
IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I, LET'S LET'S FIND OUT WHAT OTHER CITIES ARE DOING.
LET'S, LET'S JUST PUT IT BACK INTO THERE.
AND I WOULD JUST ASK THAT THIS ONE DOESN'T GET VOTED ON UNTIL THE THIRD MEETING WHEN I, WHEN I CAN BE BACK.
BUT LET'S, LET'S SEND IT BACK.
LET'S ASK IF ANY OF THE OTHER MAJOR JURISDICTIONS ARE, ARE, ARE DIMINISHING THIS, OR LIKE I SAID, IF, HOW IS ALAMO HEIGHTS INTERPRETING IT OR OTHERS I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.
'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, EVERY OTHER TEST IN ALL THE OTHER STATES, I'VE DONE THIS TEST IN, IT'S, IT'S NOT 42 INCHES, IT'S 10 FOOT ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A TEXAS THING.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A SAN ANTONIO THING, BUT IF YOU COULD INVESTIGATE THAT FROM THE CITY STANDPOINT AND FIND OUT IF ANYBODY ELSE, AND I, AND AGAIN, IF ANYBODY'S GOT FRIENDS IN, IN OTHER STATES, I WOULD ASK, MAYBE MAKE A PHONE CALL TO THEM AND SEE IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ADOPTED THIS.
THIS IS AMIN THOMAS, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
IT SOUNDS THE BOARD IS SPLIT ON THIS, SO WE MIGHT NEED TO DO A MOTION.
DO WE WANNA TABLE THIS? IS THE BOARD IN AGREEMENT WITH TABLING THAT TILL WE DO RESEARCH? UH, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE FULL BOARD OR I MEAN THE MAJORITY AGREES.
OKAY, THEN SHALL WE? UH, I, I MEAN, IN DEFERENCE TO GETTING THE INFORMATION, I, I DON'T THINK IT HURTS TO WAIT.
I MEAN, IT NEEDS TO BE RECTIFIED.
YOU KNOW, MY STANDARD, UNLESS Y'ALL COME BACK WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT IS THAT IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR, YOU KNOW, 21 YEARS, THERE'S BEEN NO ISSUES.
UH, I AM ASSUMING WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS CORRECT, THAT YOU HAVE TO TEST ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR, WHICH MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE AREAS ARE COVERED TO, TO ME, TO HAVE TO MAKE THE PLUMBING INSPECTOR GET ON THE ROOF IS PROBLEMATIC.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S JUST ADDS TO THE COST AND THE BURDEN.
AND IF IT'S NOT GONNA MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE END AND WE'RE NOT HAVING ANY PROBLEMS NOW, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT
[01:00:01]
MEANS THAT YOU KNOW, THE INSPECTOR OR SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE TO BRING IT ON A TWO STORY OR THREE STORY PRESSURE GAUGE.IF YOU CAN ASK OTHER CITIES HOW ARE THEY PROVING THE TEST, THAT THEN THAT'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, THE ONES I'VE SEEN, WE'VE, WE'VE PUT A, A PRESSURE GAUGE DOWN ON A LAVATORY ROUGH IN, AND THEN YOU CAN JUST WATCH IT.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE ONLY TALKING, YOU KNOW, 10 FOOT AHEAD, 20 FOOT AHEAD.
AND IF YOU'VE GOT ANY SORT OF LEAK OVER 15 MINUTES, IT'LL CHANGE ENOUGH.
YOU CAN USUALLY SEE IT, BUT YEAH, I, I'D MAKE THE MOTION WE TABLE IT BACK TO THE CITY.
IS THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO? OKAY.
I'LL ACCEPT TO VOTE ON TABLING THIS AND LOOKING AT IT LATER.
YEAH, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU NEED TO VOTE.
I THINK YOU, WE'VE AGREED THAT WE'RE PULLING STUFF AS WE'RE GOING.
WE'RE TO NOT TAKING A VOTE ON ANYTHING.
SO BASICALLY ANY MEMBER CAN ASK FOR IT TO BE DISCUSSED AT A LATER MEETING SO THAT WE CAN KEEP MOVING ON.
YEAH, WE DON'T, WE DON'T NEED OFFICIAL VOTE IF YOU GUYS AGREE ON TABLING.
OKAY, LET'S JUST THUMBS UP BASICALLY.
OKAY, NEXT TO ITEM NUMBER 11 AND 12, WE CAN LOOK AT THOSE TOGETHER.
GRAVITY, SEWER TEST AND FORCED SEWER TEST, UH, THAT, UH, CURRENT CSOSA AMENDMENT REMOVES THE REQUIREMENTS TO PERFORM BOTH OF THESE TESTS.
MIKE, YOU HAVE SOME BACKGROUND ON THAT.
I BELIEVE WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN THAT WANTS TO SPEAK ON THAT.
OH, IF YOU COULD JUST, UH, NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.
I'M WITH SAN ANTONIO WATER SYSTEM REPRESENTING 2,800, UH, NORTH HIGHWAY 2 81, I BELIEVE IT IS.
UM, ON THIS ONE WE'D ASK THAT IT BE AMENDED TO WHERE THE RECHARGE ZONE YOU WOULD STILL BE REQUIRED TO HAVE THE TEST RECHARGE ZONE.
THEY DO HAVE A ZONING OVERLAY DISTRICT THAT COULD BE USED, OR YOU COULD USE THE T C Q UH, BAPS.
BUT WE WOULD ASK THAT THESE TESTS STILL BE DONE ON THE RECHARGE ZONE.
SO ARE THEY CURRENTLY BEING REQUIRED ON THE RECHARGE THOUGH? EVERYWHERE? NO, I READ THE, I READ THE AMENDMENT REMOVES REQUIREMENT TO PERFORM.
IS IT JUST LANGUAGE THAT'S NOT BEING DONE? NO.
THAT, THAT AMENDMENT'S BEEN IN THE CODE FOR AT LEAST ONE OR MORE CODE CYCLES.
SO THE CURRENT RULE IS TODAY THAT THESE TESTS ARE NOT REQUIRED.
THEN WE WOULD ASK THAT THEY BE REQUIRED ON THE RECHARGE ZONE BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF HOUSES AND BUSINESSES GOING IN.
THIS IS AN EXTRA PROTECTIVE MEASURE, UH, TO TEST THAT LINE FOR LEAKAGE.
S SO CLARIFICATION AGAIN FOR MY CONTRACTOR FRIENDS, IF THEY CAN HELP ME OUT ON THIS ONE.
JUST TO, TO, TO BE THE DIFFERENCE.
THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE OF, WE WERE IN THE, THE ITEM BEFORE FOR 3 12 2.
WE WERE PLUGGING BASICALLY AT THE CLEAN OUT WHERE IT LEAVES THE BUILDING.
THIS IS GOING ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE MANHOLE.
AND THEN TESTING IN ESSENCE THAT LATERAL.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE MANHOLE IS A HUNDRED OR 200? CAN YOU GET IT? CAN YOU GET IT THAT, SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO DIG UP THE SEWER? NO, NO.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST CAPPING IT, UH, AT THE END OF YOUR EXTENSION BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR TIE IN INTO THE CITY SEWER.
YOU CAP THAT IN, DO YOUR 10 FOOT TEST THERE.
I, THIS IS, AGAIN, I'LL, I'LL GO BACK TO ONE OF THESE ONES.
I, I WILL SAY WE DO NOT ADOPT THE AMENDMENT.
I, WE, WE ACCEPT AS WRITTEN AND REQUIRE IT.
I MEAN, AGAIN, THAT IS A NORMAL PRACTICE EVERYWHERE ELSE I'VE, I'VE DESIGNED.
IF WE GOT RID OF THE AMENDMENT, WHAT EFFECT DOES THAT HAVE ON THE COST? FORGET ABOUT THE, BECAUSE IF WE DELETE THE AMENDMENT, IT'S REQUIRED EVERYWHERE.
SO WHAT KIND OF HARDSHIP OR WHAT KIND OF EXTRA COST OR WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS DOES THAT? NOTHING AGAIN, UH, THE WAY TERRELL HILLS.
ALBA HEIGHTS, THOSE INSPECTORS DEAL WITH IT.
THEY'LL EVEN ASK YOU TO GET A LADDER TO GO UP NOW THEN THE TED FOOT STARTS WITH THE HORIZON OFF.
NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL.
I'M TALKING ABOUT DOING A GRAVITY OR FOUR SEWER TEST AT YOU'RE DOING IT NOW AT THE, AT THE BUILDING.
NO, YOU'RE NOT DOING IT AT ALL.
THROW THAT YOU'RE TALKING SPECIFICALLY.
MAYBE TO GET A CLARIFICATION FOR YOU.
THIS IS TESTING THE PIPE FROM THE BUILDING TO THE SEWER MAIN OUT IN THE STREET IN ESSENCE.
AND AGAIN, AND, AND HIS, UH, THE GENTLEMAN'S CONCERN HERE IS OVER THE, UH, RECHARGE ZONE
[01:05:01]
WITHOUT A LEAK TEST ON THAT GROUND PIPE.HOW DO WE KNOW IF IT'S LEAKING OR NOT? JOINTS HAVE BEEN GLUED PROPERLY OR NOT.
SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE LIMITED OR YOU EITHER ACCEPT IT AND BRING IT IN THROUGH, UH, WHOLE CITY OR WE HAVE TO SPECIFY THAT IT'S OVER THE RECHARGE ZONE ONLY.
SO IS SAWS HAVING PROBLEMS NOW WITH LATERAL LINES IN PEOPLE'S PROPERTY LEAKING OR LEACHING INTO THE NO, WE WOULD SEE IT AS A PROTECTIVE MEASURE AND ADDITIONAL PROTECTIVE MEASURE THAT WOULD BE DONE, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS NO LEAKS AS YOU DE AS THE CHAIRMAN DESCRIBED.
AND JUST TO MAKE SURE THERE'S AN EXTRA LEVEL OF PROTECTION OVER THE RECHARGE ZONE.
SPENCER RAMSDALE, ARE YOU GUYS, AS SAWS HAVE YOUR OWN INSPECTIONS OUT OF THE CITY? ARE YOU GUYS, AS I RECALL, DON'T REQUIRE A WATER TEST ON THE SEWER LINES? I BELIEVE WE DO FOR RECHARGE THOUGH.
SO CAN I ASK THAT THESE TWO ITEMS BE TABLED AND SAWS PROVIDE US SOME DOCUMENTATION ON WHAT THEY'RE DOING OUTSIDE OF THE CITY LIMITS OVER THE RECHARGE ZONE OR SOME T E T C E Q OR WHATEVER THE AGENCY IS REQUIREMENT FOR DOING THIS? WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT IT.
UM, IT'LL BE LIMITED TO CERTAIN CITIES ON THE RECHARGE ZONE, BUT WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
LET'S, LET'S INCLUDE JUMP TO THE NEXT LINE.
'CAUSE I THINK WE'RE GONNA NEED TO INCLUDE THAT ON THE FORCE MAIN YEAH.
YES, BECAUSE, 'CAUSE AGAIN, EVEN ON THE FORCE MAIN, I BELIEVE FORCE MAINS OF TESTS ARE, ARE REQUIRED, ESPECIALLY ON FORCE MAINS WHERE I'VE, I'VE WATCHED 'EM BLOW APART.
SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE HAVING TO PUMP UP HILL TO GET INTO SOMEPLACE FROM A SEWAGE EJECTOR, I'VE WATCHED IT A COUPLE TIMES IN THE LAST 30 YEARS WHERE I'VE WATCHED A JUNCTION, YOU KNOW, BLOW APART.
SO I, IT'S ALL, ALL OF THESE, AGAIN, MY OPINION IS WE NEED TO BE DOING IT.
BUT AGAIN, I'LL TABLE IT UNTIL WE GET FURTHER INFORMATION ON OTHER JURISDICTIONS AND THEIR REQUIREMENTS.
AND THEN CAN WE ALSO GET SOMETHING FROM THE CITY SAYING WHY THEY DON'T FEEL IT'S NECESSARY AND BECAUSE WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT THIS WAY, DOESN'T COUNT
SO THEN I SUPPOSE WE'RE GOING TO TABLE FOR LATER DISCUSSION ALSO, UH, 11 AND 12.
THE NEXT ITEM NUMBER 13 IS CURRENT AMENDMENT THREE, 14.2 0.1 FOR CONDENSATE DISPOSAL.
SO WE'VE, UM, THE LANGUAGE HAS BEEN REMOVED AND WE REFERENCE, UM, SAS CHAPTER 34 FOR CONDENSATE DISPOSAL.
SO THERE'S NO CHANGE IN THE REQUIREMENT, YOU'RE JUST MOVING IT SOMEWHERE, MAKING A DIFFERENT REFERENCE.
BUT THE REQUIREMENT IS IDENTICAL.
NO, THE, UM, SAS REQUIREMENTS, SAS REQUIRES PUT ON TO CAPTURE THE CONDENSATE DISPOSAL TO ONE LOCATION FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SO CAN YOU MOVE THAT ONE TO YEAH, SO I KNOW WE DID THIS IN THE MECHANICAL CODE WHERE IT TOOK OFF THE THICKNESS OF NO, THAT WAS FOR REFRIGERANT PIPE.
AND THIS DOES REQUIRE THAT, UH, INSULATION IN UNCONDITION SPACES THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE MECHANICAL CODE.
JUST, JUST, I THINK I'M OKAY WITH THIS ONE.
BUT DO, WHAT DOES THE, UH, CHAPTER 34 SECTION ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT IT? I MEAN, WHAT ARE THEIR SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS? BECAUSE I KNOW SOME PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO USE THIS FOR FILLING, YOU KNOW, SINCE RAINWATER COLLECTION, YOU KNOW, TYPE STUFF FOR REUSE.
UM, I'VE USED IT IN LOCATIONS WHERE I HAD CONDENSATE THAT WAS USED TO GO WELL DIRECTLY TO COOLING TOWER MAKEUP INTO THE BASIN OF THE TOWER.
SO THERE'S BEEN SOME OTHER PLACES.
WHAT DOES IT ACTUALLY SAY? DOES ANYBODY KNOW? DO YOU HAVE MUNI CODE UP STILL?
[01:10:06]
SO IT'S REQUIRED TO COLLECT IT FOR FUTURE USE.THAT IS THE GIST OF IT, LITERALLY.
UM, SO IS THIS REQUIRING ALL CONDENSATE, I HEARD YOU MENTION EARLIER THAT IT HAS TO BE TAKEN TO A SINGLE POINT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU HAD SAID EARLIER? CORRECT.
FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION REQUIRES THE CONDENSATE TO BE COLLECTED TO ONE LOCATION.
WE'VE HAD EXCEPTIONS TO THAT, UH, THROUGH LIKE A CODE MODIFICATION PROCESS WHERE IT'S NOT FEASIBLE.
YOUR, YOUR BUILDING IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN THEM NOW A MILLION SQUARE FEET THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA TAKE THAT CONDENSATE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DRAIN IT, UM, AS IT'S REQUIRED, UH, TO ONE LOCATION.
SO WHERE HERE IS IS CHAPTER 34.
CHAPTER 34 MAIN IS THE, WHERE IT SAYS ONE LOCATION.
SO, SO IF I'VE GOT A, A GIANT HOSPITAL AND I'VE GOT SIX DIFFERENT MECHANICAL ROOMS, I HAVE TO TAKE ALL MY CONDENSATE TO A SINGLE POINT.
SO ALL MY, ALL MY CONDENSATE LITERALLY HAS TO BE RUNNING IN A DEDICATED LINE TO SOME POINT IN THE BUILDING AND THEN EITHER DUMPED INTO AN ESSENCE SANITARY.
IF IT'S NOT READY FOR FUTURE REUSE, THAT'S A TON OF MONEY.
CAN WE, OR EVEN, EVEN IF, EVEN IF YOU'RE IN A TWO STORY HOUSE AND THE TWO AIR CONDITIONING CLOSETS ARE A DIFFERENT SIDE OF THE HOUSE, IT MEANS YOU HAVE TO MOVE EVERYTHING INTO THERE.
AND AS AN OPERATOR, THAT'S TERRIBLE BECAUSE IF THAT LINE, YOU'RE JUST, THE LONGER THAT LINE RUN IS TO GET INTO THE BIG SEWER PIPE, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS TO OVERFLOW.
SO THE ORDINANCE IS FOR NEW COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION.
SO NEWLY CONSTRUCTED COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS INSTALLING AC ON OR AFTER JANUARY 20 OR 2006 SHALL HAVE A SINGLE AND INDEPENDENT CONDENSATE WASTEWATER LINE TO COLLECT IT.
SO THAT MEANS ON A, UH, RETAIL CENTER THAT'S 20 OR 30 OR 40,000 SQUARE FEET THAT EACH INDIVIDUAL UNIT HAS A SEPARATE ROOF, ROOFTOP AIR CONDITIONER THAT YOU HAVE TO BRING ALL THOSE TOGETHER.
NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT FOR MULTIPLE TENANT SPACES.
RIGHT, MIKE? IT'S JUST EACH TENANT SPACE WOULD HAVE THEIR ONE CONDENSATE COLLECTION.
SO, SO EACH TENANT SPACE CAN DUMP TO A SINGLE LOCATION.
BUT AGAIN, SO IF I HAVE A LARGE OFFICE BUILDING OWNED BY ONE COMPANY, 15 STORIES TALL, ALL MY CONDENSATE HAS TO GO TO A SINGLE LOCATION.
COULD ARE, I KNOW WE HAVE A SAW REPRESENTATIVE IN THE OFFICE.
I I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION 'CAUSE I KNOW, LIKE I JUST DID LACHLAN'S NEW AMBULATORY SURGERY CENTER AND THEY HAVE THIS, THE, THE RECLAMATION SYSTEM IS, DOES SAWS HAVE THE RECLAMATION SYSTEM SET UP THROUGHOUT THE CITY OR IS IT IN CERTAIN DESIGNATED AREAS? I HATE TO SAY IT, BUT I'M WATER QUALITY.
UM, WE WERE PLANNING POSSIBLY TO COME TALK AT THE NEXT MEETING, UH, ABOUT IT.
WE COULD SEE ABOUT BRINGING SOMEONE CONSTANT CONSERVATION HERE, BUT I I I WOULD BE, IT'S JUST NOT MY, UH, BALLET WICK.
WELL, THE REASON I, I, TO ME THIS IS A LOT OF MONEY.
UH, TO ME THE, THE, THE APPROPRIATE COMPROMISE WOULD BE THAT, AND I SEE WE, WE PUT THE VARIANCE IN THERE.
BUT DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE AN OPINION? I I, I'D RATHER HAVE THIS IN A GEOGRAPHICAL AREA WHERE SAWS COULD ACTUALLY USE THE, THE RECLAIMED WATER IF, IF THEY DON'T HAVE IT ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF TOWN, YOU KNOW, I THINK IS THE OLDER PART OF TOWN, WHY WOULD WE BE FOR COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION IN AN OLD PART OF TOWN WHERE THIS IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN FOR 20, 30, 40, 50 YEARS TO IMPLEMENT IT ON IT.
BUT I DON'T THINK THE INTENTION HERE IS TO DUMP THIS WATER INTO THE SAW SYSTEM.
IT'S TO ALLOW YOU TO USE THE WATER FOR LANDSCAPING.
WE TRIED TO DO THIS ON ONE MAJOR REHAB ON A 55 UNIT PROPERTY, AND WE WANTED TO BASICALLY PUMP THE WATER INTO A, THE CONDENSATE WATER INTO A PUMP AND THEN JUST HAVE IT AUTOMATICALLY SET OFF SPRINKLERS.
AND WE WERE TOLD BY SAWS WE COULDN'T DO THAT WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK AND TREAT THE WATER BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID THAT THE CONDENSATE WATER HAD, YOU KNOW, LEGIONNAIRE'S DISEASE IN IT.
AND WE WERE GONNA BE SPRAYING IT ALL OVER THE THING.
SO IF THERE'S NO WAY TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THE MECHANICAL CODE NOW
[01:15:01]
REQUIRES ALL THAT WATER TO BE DUMPED IN A SEWER NO MATTER WHAT.SO I DO, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS? TO, UM, PROMOTE REUSE FOR IRRIGATION, UM, TO PRO TO PROMOTE THAT, THE REUSE OF THE CONDENSATION.
BUT YOU DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE THE, THE WAY IF I BUILD A NEW BUILDING UNDER THE CURRENT MECHANICAL CODE THAT WATER HAS TO DUMP INTO A SEWER LINE.
SO IF YOU HAVE TO DUMP IT INTO A SEWER LINE, IT DOESN'T EVEN ALLOW FOR THIS.
SO I, I THINK MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT BOTH CODES TOGETHER WITH CHAPTER 34.
BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAD A HUGE ISSUE.
YOU KNOW, WE WERE GONNA PUT A, YOU KNOW, GREEN, GREEN AND YOU KNOW, BY THE TIME, YOU KNOW, TO BE ABLE TO REUSE THE CONDENSATE WATER COSTS, LIKE A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TO BE ABLE TO TREAT THE WATER.
I MEAN IF THE INTENT IS THAT SAWS HAS THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE, THEN SURE, LET'S DO THIS.
BUT IF YOU'RE IN A PART OF TOWN WHERE THIS IS GONNA BE 20 YEARS BEFORE IT EVER GETS THERE, AND, AND IF I'M, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE NOBODY'S GONNA SPEND, LIKE YOU SAID, 30, 40, $50,000 TO DO ONSITE TREATMENT FOR, YOU KNOW, EVEN LIKE I SAID, A A 200, 300,000 SQUARE FOOT OFFICE BUILDING.
THEY'RE JUST REALLY NOT GONNA DO IT UNLESS THEY'RE TRYING TO GET LEAD CREDITS.
AND I, I, I THINK THIS, WE NEED SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THIS AND HOW IT'S GONNA BE IMPLEMENTED IN, IN A COUPLE, A COUPLE OF THINGS.
SO THIS IS A CURRENT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO ORDINANCE.
WE ARE JUST REFERENCING IT HERE FOR CONVENIENCE IN THE PLUMBING AND MECHANICAL CODE.
SO THIS IS REQUIRED, UM, FOR NEW NEWLY CONSTRUCTED COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS REGARDLESS.
SO ALL WE'RE DOING IS ADDING IT HERE FOR CONVENIENCE OF OUR DEVELOPERS.
IT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW IT AS A CITY OF SAN ANTONIO ORDINANCE.
AND WE DO, WE DO IDENTIFY IT, UM, FOR CONDENSATE DISPOSAL.
SO WE, I, WE HAVE THIS SECTION FIRST REFERENCING CHAPTER 34, AND THEN FOR CONDENSATE DISCHARGE, WHICH IS A SUBSECTION.
SO IF YOU'RE NOT COLLECTING IT TO REUSE FOR ONE OF THESE FOUR ITEMS, THEN YOU ARE TO DISPOSE OF IT, UM, PER THAT, UH, SUBSECTION.
I GUESS AT THIS POINT WE HAVE TO, UH, WE REALLY, WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THE AMENDMENT 'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY IN THE CITY.
WE'RE JUST ADDING IT HERE IN THE MECHANICAL AND PLUMBING CODE FOR CONVENIENCE.
BUT, BUT BACK, I, I KNOW THIS IS THE CODE AND THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
SO I COLLECT IT ALL IN ONE POINT AND I PUMP IT INTO THE SEWER INSIDE A WALL.
WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO? WELL AGAIN, IT'S TO PROMOTE REUSE.
IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO REUSE, THEN YES, YOU ARE TO DISPOSE OF IT.
UM, PER THE CODE REQUIREMENTS.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW, HOW OFTEN SOMEBODY APPLIES FOR THIS VARIANCE? I MEAN, ARE YOU GUYS INSPECTING FOR IT? DO YOU SEE IT ALL THE TIME FOR REUSE? YES.
ON LARGE PROPERTIES, UH, WITH X AMOUNT OF TON, UH, RTUS, THEY'LL SEND IT TO A COLLECTION POINT.
BUT TO BE ABLE TO USE IT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE WATER COMING OUT SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT SAWS MENTIONED TO TREAT THE WATER, UM, ON YOUR CONDENSATE WITH YOUR COLLECTION AND ALSO A MAKEUP, UH, WITH YOUR POTABLE WATER, UH, SHOULD HAVE ALLOWED YOU TO, TO USE IT FOR IRRIGATION PURPOSES.
UM, AGAIN, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT SAWS WAS GETTING AT IF PURELY YOU WERE JUST USING THE CONDENSATE.
IF WE SPRAYED SPRAYED IT, IF WE SPRAYED IT IN THE AIR, IT HAD TO BE TREATED.
SO, BUT, BUT WHAT I'M ASKING IS, IS THAT IF THIS IS THE RULE OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, THAT CONDENSATE WATER SHOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR, UH, LAND REUSE AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE REUSED BY SAWS, IT'S GONNA BE RE REUSED AT SOME POINT ON THE PROPERTY.
DON'T YOU HAVE TO BRING THE WATER OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING TO BE ABLE TO ALLOW SOMEBODY TO DO THAT LATER ON? BECAUSE IF YOU ENCAPSULATE ALL THIS INSIDE THE BUILDING, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO GET AT THAT PIPE.
THERE WOULD BE A COLLECTION POINT.
I'M NOT SURE IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, BUT THERE WOULD BE A COLLECTION POINT OUTSIDE THE BUILDING,
[01:20:01]
BUT THAT IS NOW OR SO ARE YOU GONNA MAKE EVERYBODY PIPE THEIR CONDENSATE OUTSIDE THE BUILDING AND THEN INTO THE SEWER OUTSIDE THE BUILDING? I MEAN, I, I GUESS WHERE I COULD SEE THIS, AND I THINK WHAT WE DID AT, AT THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THESE OTHER BUILDINGS I WAS AT IS WE HAD A DEDICATED ALMOST DRAIN LINE INSIDE THE BUILDING.AND IT WAS, IT WAS STANDALONE.
I, I, I DISAGREE WITH THE CITY ORDINANCE, BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE AT THAT POINT.
I MEAN, AGAIN, MAYBE WE COULD AS A BOARD AT SOME POINT, ASK THE CITY TO GO BACK AND REVIEW THIS AS A REQUIREMENT FOR WHERE PEOPLE AREN'T, I MEAN, AGAIN, LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S BEEN THERE FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND A FEW PEOPLE APPLY FOR VARIANCE, BUT TO ME IT'S JUST A, IT'S A HEAD SCRATCHER.
SO IT'S 'CAUSE NOBODY'S FOLLOWING WHAT THE ORDINANCE IS RIGHT NOW.
MY GUESS IS THAT'S KINDA WHY I ASKED THE CITY IF THEY'RE REALLY SEEING THIS BEING ENFORCED BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THESE ONES.
I JUST WONDER IF EVERYBODY'S OVERLOOKING IT.
OH, THE CONDENSATE COLLECTION TO 1.0 NO, THAT'S DEFINITELY BEING ENFORCED A HUNDRED PERCENT AT PLAN REVIEW.
AND I BELIEVE THE, THE INTENT IS THAT, UH, THEY, YOU PIPE TO A CENTRAL LOCATION DOWN RE OR UTILIZE THE RAIN WATER CAPTURING OR THAT TYPE OF REUSE AT A LATER DATE.
THE WAY YOU GET AROUND YOUR IRRIGATION IS YOU PRESSURIZE DO, DO IT UNDERGROUND.
IT'S ALL DRIP SO THAT YOU DON'T SPRAY IT.
THE SAWS IS WORRIED SICK ABOUT LEGIONELLA.
I I THINK IF WE WANNA FIGHT THIS, WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE PARENT, THE PARENT CODE.
I, I THINK YOU JUST LEAVE IT LIKE IT IS AND THE OTHER LANGUAGE THAT YOU'RE TAKING OUT IS SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CODE ABOUT THE FALL OF THE LINE AND ALL THAT STUFF.
CAN, CAN WE GET THE, THE AMENDMENT, AMENDMENT LANGUAGE THAT THE REST OF THE STUFF YOU'RE TAKING OUT IS SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CODE? MIKE, IS THAT IN THE MECHANICAL? IS, IS THAT M THERE BEFORE THE SECTION NUMBER REPRESENTS THAT? IT, IT'S, UM, MECHANICAL? NO, WE AMENDED THAT OUT OF THE MECHANICAL TWO REGARDING THE SLOPE.
THAT'S SOMEWHERE MECHANICAL PROGRAM.
WELL, WE AMENDED IT OUT UNDER CONDENSATE DISPOSAL AND MECHANICAL AMENDMENTS.
SO CAN YOU JUST VERIFY, UM, I MEAN I THINK WE CAN APPROVE IT LIKE YOU HAVE IT, BUT WILL SOMEBODY JUST GO BACK AND VERIFY THAT ALL THE REST OF THE STUFF THAT WAS IN THE ORDINANCE IS SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CODE THAT'S TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THAT THE LINE HAS TO SLOPE AND ALL THAT STUFF.
I THINK IT WAS WHEN WE WENT OVER IT, BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE SURE.
UH, I'M NOT SURE IF, IF BEING THAT THIS IS NOT A SANITARY SEWER, JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST MOVING, UH, CONDENSATE WATER, UH, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW YOUR QUARTER ITCH PER FOOT SLOPE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT? YEAH, BECAUSE WE HAVE A BUNCH OF LINES THAT WERE BUILT A LONG TIME AGO WHERE THE LINE IS FLAT, THE CONDENSATE LIGHT GOING IN, YOU KNOW, RUNS A DISTANCE AND IT'S BASICALLY HORIZONTAL AND BASICALLY THAT CREATES HUGE AMOUNTS OF ISSUES LATER FROM AN OPERATIONS PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE ALL THE GUNK JUST DOESN'T MOVE AND IT CAUSES THE LINE TO BACK UP AND CLOG.
AND SO TO ME THAT'S A, THE CONDENSATE LINE IS JUST NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER PLUMBING LINE OTHER THAN YOU DON'T LIKE A GRAY WATER LINE.
THIS JOEL, IF I'M READING THIS CORRECTLY, I THINK THERE IS A SLOPE THERE ON 3 14 2 1.
YEAH, BUT THE CITY AMENDMENT STRIKES IT.
SO LET'S JUST TABLE THIS ONE AND LET THE CITY MAKE SURE THAT, THAT THE SLOPE OF CONDENSATE DRAINS IS COVERED IN SOME CODE SOMEWHERE.
AND IF IT IS, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THIS.
IF IT'S NOT COVERED SOMEWHERE ELSE, THEN WE NEED TO UNS STRIKE THAT SECTION ON SLOPE OF THE DRAIN.
[01:25:02]
GOOD ENOUGH FOR TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE? YES, GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON.UH, LINE 14, CURRENT AMENDMENT.
CURRENT, UH, GENERAL MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, SORRY CHRISTO TO CUT YOU OFF, BUT DID WANNA LET THE BOARD KNOW THAT WE DID HAVE LUNCH AVAILABLE FOR HIM WHENEVER Y'ALL WANTED TO TAKE A INTERMISSION FOR THAT.
DO WE HAVE TIME FOR A BREAK?
WHAT HE'S, I MEAN IT COULD BE A SHORT TO GET, GET THE TWO OF US OVER HERE TO BE QUIET WITH FOOD IN OUR MOUTH.
I JUST WANTED THE, THE COMMITTEE TO BE AWARE.
UM, I'LL LEAVE THAT COMPLETELY UP TO Y'ALL.
SO, SO I'LL HAVE TO ASK THE REST COMMITTEE IF, IF Y'ALL ARE HUNGRY.
'CAUSE I USUALLY JUST WORK RIGHT THROUGH LUNCH.
I'M FINE WITH THE WORKING LUNCH.
WE GOT A LOT OF, LOT OF WAYS TO GO.
SO IF IT JUST, WHEN IT GETS
SO IF Y'ALL WANTED TO TAKE A QUICK FIVE BATHROOM BREAK, GRAB THE PLATE AND KEEP WORKING, THAT WORKS JUST FINE FOR US.
I'LL CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER.
THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY TAKING A BREAK.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATION.
CAN WE GET THE AMENDMENT PUT BACK UP? YES.
I DON'T WANT, SO PLUMBING IS AFTER UPGRADE.
UM, THEN PLUMBING THIS PAGE 1 0 3 HERE, BUT THAT DOESN'T EQUATE YEAH.
AND JUST SCROLL DOWN TO THE NEXT PAGE.
I'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE LEAVE 3 4 3 1 4 2 0.1 EXACTLY LIKE IT IS AND THEN ADD THE FOLLOWING LANGUAGE TO THE END OF IT.
NEWLY CONSTRUCTED BUILDINGS IN NEWLY CONSTRUCTED BUILDINGS, COMMA, AND THEN EXACTLY LIKE YOU HAVE IT AFTER THAT.
BECAUSE BY DELETING THIS WHOLE SECTION OUT, YOU'RE TAKING THIS AWAY.
UM, NO, BUT YOU'RE TAKING IT AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION.
AND I ASSUME THE CODE APPLIES TO, I BELIEVE THE CHECK STARTS OUT COMMERCIAL, BUT THIS WOULDN'T APPLY TO BUILDINGS THAT ARE NOT NEWLY CONSTRUCTED.
THE ORDINANCE SPECIFICALLY STATES NEWLY CONSTRUCTED COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
SO I WOULD LEAVE IT LIKE IT IS AND THEN JUST ADD THIS LANGUAGE IN NEWLY CONSTRUCTED BUILDINGS.
UH, AND THEN LEAVE EVERYTHING JUST THE FIRST SENTENCE AND THEN LEAVE THE REST OF IT OUT.
UNLESS WAIT, YOU BRING, YOU BRING A VALID POINT.
UM, WHAT DO WE DO ON, ON REMODELS IF WE HAVE A COMMERCIAL OFFICE BUILDING WITH A REMODEL? ARE WE, ARE WE, NO, THAT'S NOT NEWLY CONSTRUCTED.
SO THEN, THEN WE WOULD, WE STILL WANT THE, THE EXISTING LANGUAGE TO APPLY TO HIS POINT.
'CAUSE IF YOU STRIKE ALL THAT, THEN NONE OF THAT WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO A, TO A REMODELED AREA.
[01:30:07]
MIKE, DO YOU KNOW IF WE'VE SEEN ANY ISSUES WITH COMPLYING WITH CONDENSATE DISPOSAL FOR RENOVATED BUILDINGS? UM, WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE THEIR RECOMMENDATION BACK TO LEAVE THAT LANGUAGE AND, UM, ADD NEWLY CONSTRUCTED BUILDINGS SHALL COMPLY WITH CHAPTER 34 TO KEEP THAT REFERENCE IN THERE.UM, AND WE'LL COME BACK IF EVERYONE AGREES THAT THAT'S THE DIRECTION, COME BACK NEXT TIME WITH THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE READY TO VIEW.
AND THEN ALSO IN THE MECHANICAL CODE WHERE WE'RE REQUIRING EVERYTHING FROM THE CONDENSATE LINE TO GO INTO THE SEWER LINE.
I THINK YOU NEED TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION TO BE ABLE TO, UH, PUMP IT OUTSIDE ON THE GROUND FOR LANDSCAPING WATER.
WE SPECIFICALLY PROHIBIT THAT FROM GOING TO GROUND TO CREATE A NUISANCE PONDING.
I MEAN THAT'S A LOT OF CONDENSATE HERE IN TEXAS.
WE DON'T ALLOW IT TO JUST DISCHARGE OUTSIDE.
I KNOW, BUT THE, THE ORDINANCE BY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO BASICALLY SAYS THE CITY COLLECT IT TO ONE LOCATION FOR FUTURE USE FOR IRRIGATION.
I KNOW, BUT IF YOU DON'T ALLOW IT TO BE, IF WE WANTED TO TAKE ON A COMMERCIAL BUILDING AND WE HAD A BIG OAK TREE IN THE BACK AND WE WANTED TO DIG WELLS AROUND THE OAK TREE, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO PUMP BRAND NEW WATER ON TOP OF THE GROUND TO WATER THE TREE, WHY COULDN'T YOU DO THAT? 'CAUSE THE CHAPTER 34 IS, IS BASICALLY TELLING YOU THAT THEY'RE PROMOTING IT BECAUSE THEY WANT YOU TO COLLECT IT FOR LANDSCAPING USE, BUT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWING ANY OF THE WATER TO BE USED FOR LANDSCAPING USE BECAUSE IT HAS TO GO INTO THE SEWER.
I'M IRRIGATING THE FLOWER BED IN MY FRONT YARD, NEWLY CONSTRUCTED COMMERCIAL.
SO YOU CAN HAVE IT IN YOUR FLOWER BED, IN YOUR FRONT YARD, UM, OF MY COMMERCIAL BUILDING.
WELL, HOW WOULD YOU, HOW WOULD YOU GET THAT CONDENSATE OUT TO THAT OAK TREE, DUMP IT ON THE GROUND AND LET IT RUN DOWN? YOU KNOW,
WELL, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU LOOK AT BOTH THE MECHANICAL CODE AND THE PLUMBING CODE AS IT RELATES TO CHAPTER 34 AND FIGURE OUT IF THEY'RE GONNA PROMOTE YOU AND MAKE YOU GO TO ALL THIS EXPENSE TO COLLECT IT IN ONE AREA.
AND WE DON'T ALLOW YOU TO USE IT.
MAYBE WE CAN GET SOMEBODY FROM SAUL'S CONSERVATION OR A PLUMBING ENGINEER TO, UM, DISCUSS HOW YOU WOULD UTILIZE COLLECTED CONDENSATE IN AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM.
SO, UH, THIS SECTION IS SPECIFICALLY JUST REFERENCING, AGAIN, JUST FOR CONVENIENCE, BUT WE'LL GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT AND WHATEVER WE DECIDE HERE FOR PLUMBING, WE'LL OBVIOUSLY COPY THAT OVER TO MECHANICAL BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY'RE, THESE SECTIONS ARE, UM, IF NOT IDENTICAL, VERY CLOSE.
I HAVE NOT DONE DONE A SIGNIFICANT, UH, WATER REUSE PROJECT LATELY TO SEE WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR TREATMENT.
I JUST WAS, YOU KNOW, SAY IRRIGATION IS DUMPING WATER ON THE GROUND, BUT WE SAY WE CAN'T DUMP WATER ON THE GROUND.
SO IT IS A WELL, NO, AND WHAT THEY AND WHAT THEY WILL NO, CRYSTAL, WHAT THEY WILL ALLOW YOU TO DO IS THEY WILL ALLOW YOU TO USE IT AS DRIP IRRIGATION AND STUFF AS LONG AS IT'S NOT SPRAYING IN THE AIR WITHOUT TREATING IT.
BUT THE WAY THE ORDINANCE READS IS YOU'RE PROHIBITED FROM DOING THAT BECAUSE IT HAS TO DUMP INTO THE SEWER.
AGAIN, THE OVERALL SECTION REFERENCES CHAPTER 34.
SO IF YOU DON'T USE IT FOR ONE OF THOSE ITEMS, THAT CHAPTER 34 ALLOWS YOU TO USE IT FOR DRIP IRRIGATION.
THAT'S AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM THAT'S NOT DUMPING IT ONTO THE GROUND.
DRIP IRRIGATION IS NOT DUMPING IT INTO YOUR, IT'S NOT DUMPING.
SO IF YOU DON'T CHOOSE TO DO THAT, THEN THE SUBSECTION SAYS THIS IS HOW YOU WILL DISPOSE OF IT.
BUT IF I HAVE, BUT IF I HAVE A, IF I HAVE A EXISTING BUILDING, THIS IS FOR NEWLY NO, NO, NO, I KNOW.
IF I HAVE A EXISTING BUILDING AND I WANT TO USE THE WATER FOR LANDS AND WE'RE DOING A
[01:35:01]
REMODEL, PULLING A PERMIT FOR NEW AIR CONDITIONING AND I WANT TO TAKE THAT CONDENSATE OUTSIDE THE BUILDING AND USE IT FOR LANDSCAPE IRRIGATION, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE 34 ONLY APPLIES TO NEW CONSTRUCTION.SO I'M JUST SAYING IT NEEDS TO BE CONSISTENT ALL THE WAY AROUND.
IF WE'RE GONNA PROMOTE USE OF CONDENSATE FOR, FOR REUSE AND LANDSCAPING WATER, WE SHOULD PROBABLY LOOK AT THAT SECTION AND MAKE THAT AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE TO DRAIN IT INTO THE SEWER.
WELL, THE REQUIREMENT DOES APPLY TO NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT IF YOU WERE PROPOSING TO USE YOUR COLLECTED CONDENSATE FOR A DRIP IRRIGATION OR IRRIGATION SYSTEM, WE WOULD PERMIT THAT.
AGAIN, THESE WERE WHERE'S IT ALLOWED IN THE MECHANICAL CODE OR PLUMBING CODE WHERE IT ALLOWED YEAH, I I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT IS IT IN THE I M C THAT IT SAYS WE CAN USE CONDENSATE FOR IRRIGATION PURPOSES? WAS IT SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT IN THE I M C OR DID IT SAY, WELL, NOT FOR NOT FOR RENO, NOT FOR RENOVATION PROJECTS.
THAT DOESN'T SP IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED FOR RENOVATION PROJECTS.
WELL, I WAS JUST SAYING THAT IT WOULD BE GOOD.
IT WOULDN'T, I WE WOULDN'T PROHIBIT IT.
I MEAN IT'S NOT BUT LEGALLY IT'S NOT PROHIBITED IN THE, IF THE I M C DOES NOT EXPLICITLY ALLOW IT, IT IS PROHIBITED.
NO, THAT'S NOT HOW WE INTERPRET THE CODE.
IF IT'S PROHIBITED, THEN IT WOULD BE IDENTIFIED AS PROHIBITED.
IF IT SAYS CONDENSATE SHALL TERMINATE AT A SANITARY SEWER, IT IS PROHIBITED.
WE'LL REVISE THE LANGUAGE AND WE'LL BRING BACK PROPOSED LANGUAGE FOR THIS SECTION.
WE MAY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE TWO CODES.
IT MIGHT MAKE SENSE TO SPEND A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO MAKE SURE IF WE ADOPT THE I M C THAT MAY BE A PIECE WE NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE I M C.
'CAUSE IF THE I M C SAYS CONDENSATE SHALL GO, THEN THAT'S IN CONFLICT WITH THE I M C.
SO THESE SECTIONS ARE IDENTICAL BETWEEN THE PLUMBING AND MECHANICAL CODES.
I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T REMEMBER ADOPTING THAT ONE, BUT IF THEY'RE IDENTICAL, THEN WE'RE COVERED.
OKAY, NEXT ITEM 3 14 2 1 1 FOR CONDENSATE.
SO WE'RE PROPOSING TO, THIS IS A NEW SECTION IN THE 2021 I P C.
WE'RE PROPOSING TO, UM, ADD AN AMENDMENT THAT STRIKES OUT THE LAST SENTENCE THAT SAYS, EXCEPT WE'RE DISCHARGING TO OUT OR THE LAST PHRASE, EXCEPT WE'RE DISCHARGING TO OUTDOORS.
HIS, UH, DISCHARGING TO GRADE IS NOT PERMITTED.
SO THE LAST SENTENCE WE'RE PROPOSING AMENDMENT TO READ.
THE POINT OF DISCHARGE OF CONDENSATE DRAIN SHALL BE LOCATED WITHIN THE SAME OCCUPANCY TENANT SPACE OR DWELLING UNIT AS THE SOURCE OF CONDENSATE.
SO THAT'S BASICALLY SAYS CORRECT.
'CAUSE WE ALL TO, AGAIN, TO THAT POINT, WE MAY NEED TO ADD THAT OR AS ALLOWED BY CHAPTER 34, SECTION DA DA DA.
34 IS ONLY 34 IS ONLY NEW CONSTRUCTION.
SO I JUST THINK WE, IF WE'RE GONNA PROMOTE USE OF CONDENSATE FOR LANDSCAPING PURPOSES, WE SHOULD ALLOW IT.
SO THE FIRST SECTION, THE THREE 14.2 0.1 ADDRESSES CONDENSATE DISPOSAL.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE REFERENCING CHAPTER 34.
SO AGAIN, IF YOU DON'T DO THAT, THEN THIS IS HOW YOU DISCHARGE THE CONDENSATE.
SO THIS IS A SUBSECTION TO CONDENSATE DISPOSAL, RIGHT.
BUT BY TAKING OUT THE LAST THING AND NOT ALLOWING IT TO GO OUTSIDE, YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DISPOSE OF IT IS IN THE SEWER LINES.
THERE'S THE NUISANCE CLAUSE IN THERE THAT OPENS THAT A LITTLE BIT.
DID OUR LAWYER EVER SHOW UP? YES.
LET, LET'S JUST SEND THAT BACK TO THE TABLE.
LET THEM RE-LOOK AT IT, HAMMER ON IT, THINK ABOUT IT AND WE'LL KEEP GOING.
THOUGHTS? OH, THAT'S WHAT I'M IS JUST TO COME BACK WITH ALL THOSE SECTIONS THAT ALLOW FOR THE SPIRIT OF 34.
SO THIS IS A DIFFERENT SECTION AGAIN, A SUBSECTION OF THE CONDENSATE DISPOSAL.
[01:40:01]
SO THIS IS THE CONDENSATE DISCHARGE.SO IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE NOT COMPLYING WITH CHAPTER 34 AND USING IT FOR IRRIGATION, THEN THIS IS HOW YOU DISCHARGE THE CONDENSATE.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE WOULD HAVE ANY OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS FROM STAFF FOR THIS SECTION.
AND I DON'T REALLY MEAN TO BE DIFFICULT.
BUT BY TAKING OUT THE LAST SENTENCE, AREN'T YOU BASICALLY SAYING THAT IF YOU'RE NOT A NEW CONSTRUCTED BUILDING, THAT YOU CANNOT USE YOUR CONDENSATE BECAUSE YOU'RE MANDATING IT, THAT IT GO INTO A NO MARK.
THIS IS A, THIS IS A DIFFERENT SECTION, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL COME UP WITH SOMETHING AND BRING IT BACK NEXT TIME.
WE WILL ALSO HIGHLIGHT IT AND MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT IT, WHAT THE INTENT HERE IS.
NEXT ITEM THREE 14.2 0.4 0.1 FOR DUCTLESS MINI SPLIT SYSTEM TRAPS.
SO, UM, WE STRUCK OUT IN THE AMENDMENT PROVIDE THE INLINE CHECK VALVE AND JUST REFERENCE MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATIONS.
I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM KEEPING IT.
UH, CURRENT AMENDMENT IDENTIFIES THE MAXIMUM DISCHARGE FLOW RATES TO COMPLY WITH CHAPTER 15.
SO THIS IS JUST A WATER CONSERVATION EFFORT REFERENCING MAXIMUM FLOW RATES.
SO I'M FINE WITH IT OR WE'RE ALL FINE WITH IT.
CURRENT CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT TO TABLE 4 0 3 0.1 FOR MINIMUM NUMBER OF FIXTURES REQUIRED.
THIS IS, UM, AN AMENDMENT TO NOTE E.
SO THIS AMENDMENT ALLOWS THE EXCEPTION FOR SERVICE SINKS TO APPLY TO ALL OCCUPANCIES AND NOT JUST BUSINESS AND MERCANTILE OCCUPANCIES.
SO THE CURRENT NOTE E SAYS THAT, UH, BUSINESS AND MERCANTILE CLASSIFICATIONS WITH AN OCCUPANT LOAD OF 15 OR FEWER ARE EXEMPT FROM, UM, INSTALLING A SERVICE SINK.
SO WE BELIEVE THAT THAT SHOULD BE 15 OR FEWER FOR ALL OCCUPANCIES.
I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT.
I THINK JUST FROM A LEGALISTIC PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S ONLY APPLIED.
KEYNOTE E OR OR NO FEE ONLY APPEARS IN ROW SIX AND TWO.
FOR BUSINESS AND MERCANTILE, WE WOULD WANT TO ADD THAT KEYNOTE.
EACH SHOULD BE E SHOULD BE ADDED TO EACH EVERY, EACH OF THE OTHER ROWS AND CHANGED IN THE BOTTOM.
JUST SO WE COVER BOTH OF THOSE FROM THAT STANDPOINT.
'CAUSE EVEN, EVEN IF, IF WE CHANGE THE, THE WORDING OF E ONLY THE TABLE ONLY REFERENCES THAT FROM JUST A LITTLE TECHNICALITY.
SO WE MIGHT WANT TO NOTE THAT WE ADD KEYNOTE E TO ALL OF THE ROWS.
SO CURRENT AMENDMENT STRIKES OUT NOTE F IN ITS ENTIRETY WAS IT REFERENCES THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF FIXTURES FOR, UM, PUBLIC OR OUTDOOR PUBLIC SWIMMING POOLS.
AND WE'VE SINCE ADOPTED THE INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL IN SPA CODE.
SO WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO STRIKE OUT NOTE E I MEAN, SORRY, NOTE F BECAUSE WE HAVE NOW ADOPTED IT.
SO WE'LL JUST BE REFERENCING BASE CODES.
I KNOW THE STATE, UH, HAS REQUIREMENTS FOR BATHROOMS IN THEIR NEWLY ADOPTED,
[01:45:01]
WHICH THEY'RE DOING AGAIN, POOL RULES.SO IF THERE'S A DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THE STATE RULE AND THE CITY RULE, WHICH ARE Y'ALL ENFORCING? WELL, WE DEFINITELY WANT THOSE TO ALIGN.
I'M NOT SURE IF OUR, THE STATE HAS, UH, REQUIRED US TO ADOPT THE SWIMMING POOL CODE AS OF, I THINK SEPTEMBER, 2020.
WAS THAT THE DATE? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND PRETTY MUCH ALL THE AMENDMENTS WHEN WE ADOPTED 2018 WE'RE TO ALIGN IT WITH THE STATE REQUIREMENTS.
SO PRETTY MUCH, AND THAT'S, THAT IS A COMMITTEE.
I MEAN, IF YOU, IF WE HAVE AN ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT WE MISSED ON THIS LAST, NO, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW THERE, I I JUST HAPPEN TO KNOW FROM MY OTHER VOLUNTEER JOB THAT I HAVE THAT THEY, THEY'VE STARTED TO WORK ON THE SWIMMING POOL RULES AGAIN FOR LIKE THE THIRD TIME IN THREE YEARS.
AND SO I JUST THINK SOMEBODY NEEDS TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE IN ALIGNMENT.
WE'LL, UH, REACH OUT TO SOME ORGANIZATIONS WITH THE POOL AS WE DID WITH THE OTHER ADOPTION PROCESS AND YOU GO THAT ROUTE.
UM, IT'S A NEW EXCEPTION IN THE I P C FOR 4 0 3 0.2.
SO THIS IS, UM, FOR SEPARATE FACILITIES BASICALLY, UH, ALLOWS MULTI-USER FACILITIES TO SERVE ALL GENDERS.
THIS IS THE CODE WHICH PROVIDED URINALS ARE VISUALLY SEPARATED OR LOCATED IN A STALL.
SO TH THIS IS NEW AGAIN, A NEW OPTION, A NEW EXCEPTION FOR THOSE GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOMS. WE ARE RECOMMENDING AN AMENDMENT TO REMOVE THE U THE, THE PHRASE URINALS SHALL BE LOCATED.
UM, AND THEN JUST REFERENCE THE 4 0 5 0.3 0.4 FOR URINARY PARTITIONS.
UM, BUT ALSO REQUIRE WATER CLOSET WALLS EXTEND FROM THE FLOOR TO THE CEILING IN THESE, UM, GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOMS TO HAVE A, A COMPLETELY ENCLOSED COMPARTMENT RATHER THAN JUST, UH, STALL PARTITIONS IN A GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOM.
CAN YOU BRING UP THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE THAT YOU GOT ON THE OR DO YOU HAVE THAT? SO WHY DOES IT HAVE TO GO FLOOR TO CEILING IF YOU CAN'T SEE, I MEAN, PART OF THE REASON THAT YOU'RE THE PARTITIONS DON'T GO ALL THE WAY DOWN IS SO THAT IF SOMETHING OVERFLOWS YOU'RE NOT, WELL, IT COULD STILL HAVE THE DOOR OPEN.
UM, THE DOOR DOESN'T HAVE TO GO FLOOR TO CEILING.
RIGHT? SO YOU COULD STILL HAVE THE DOOR OPENING.
UM, JUST WAS IN ONE OF THESE RESTROOMS SPECIFICALLY LIKE THIS, UH, LAST NIGHT.
SO, UM, THINK OF LIKE A BUCKY'S, AND AGAIN, THIS IS FOR MEN AND WOMEN AND LITTLE BOYS AND LITTLE GIRLS.
WE'RE ASKING THAT, UM, OR WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT THE CHANGE, UH, REQUIRE IN THOSE USES, UM, THAT THE WALLS GO FLOOR TO CEILING.
C CAN YOU BRING UP THE, THE ACTUAL FULL SET OF PROPOSED LANGUAGE? BECAUSE I'M NOT, WHEN YOU'RE SAYING YOURS SHALL BE LO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT IN THERE.
UM, SO IN THE BOOK WHERE IT SAYS URINALS SHALL BE LOCATED IN AN AREA VISUALLY SEPARATED, SO WE WOULD STRIKE THAT, UM, AND THEN REFERENCE URINALS, UM, OR REQUIRE THE URINALS ALSO BE, UM, MIKE, WHAT WERE WE SAYING? IN AN STALL OR IN AN ENCLOSURE? IN AN ENCLOSURE.
SO THE URINALS ALSO, UM, AND THESE USES BE IN A FULL ENCLOSURE.
SO BASIC, SO BASICALLY TO COMPLY YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BUILD A REAL WALL ALL THE WAY UP ON BOTH SIDES VERSUS BEING ABLE TO USE, UH, PARTITIONS STALL PARTITIONS.
THAT'S WHAT WE ARE RECOMMENDING IN THESE GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOMS. AGAIN, THIS IS A CHOICE, UM, AN OPTION IN THE CODE.
WE'RE NOT REQUIRING IT FOR ALL FACILITIES.
WE FELT THAT THIS WAS JUST AN ADDITIONAL PROTECTIVE MEASURE FOR GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOMS. NO, I, I THINK IT'S A GOOD RULE, BUT I, WHAT I WOULD ASK YOU ALL TO CONSIDER THINK ABOUT IS MAYBE MAKING IT WHERE, YOU KNOW, ON THE FLOOR IT'S ONE INCH FROM THE GROUND SO THAT IF THEY CHOOSE TO USE A PARTITION, WE'RE NOT PUTTING A METAL PARTITION ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND.
IT'S GOING TO, IF IT'S NOT STAINLESS STEEL, IT'S GONNA END UP RUSTING AND BE DANGEROUS BECAUSE
[01:50:01]
YOU'RE NOT REQUIRING A SEPARATION WALL.YOU'RE JUST REQUIRING A PARTITION THAT GOES FLOOR TO CEILING.
AND I ASSUME YOU'RE AFRAID THAT SOMEBODY'S GONNA PEEK OVER OR PEEK UNDER THE BATHROOM.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID.
SO IF IT'S ONE INCH FROM OFF THE GROUND, ARE YOU ALL OKAY WITH THAT OR IS THAT STILL NOT I THINK THAT MEETS THE INTENT.
I MEAN, WE, WE SEE THESE BATHROOMS CONSTRUCTED THIS WAY ALL THE TIME, ALL THE TIME.
FLOOR TO FLOOR, TO CEILING WALLS.
UH, WHAT ABOUT THE VENTILATION? HAVE YOU DISCUSSED THE MECHANICAL AS WELL? AND THAT WOULD BE ADDRESSED SEPARATELY? YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S HOW I WOULD INTERPRET THAT IS EACH, EACH STALL QUOTE UNQUOTE STALL, BECAUSE IT'S NOT OPEN AT THE TOP AND FREELY COMMUNICATING, YOU'D HAVE TO VENTILATE EACH TOILET STALL AT 50 C F M PER PER FIXTURE FOR THIS, UM, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TOPIC IF I CAN.
UM, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK IF WE'RE GONNA REWORD THAT ONE.
ARE, ARE WE GOING TO INTERPRET THAT WHERE IT SAYS THE STALL HAS TO HAVE BOTH THE WATER CLOSET AND THE LAVATORY IN THE STALL OR THEY CAN BE SEPARATE? 'CAUSE THAT'S READING THAT, THAT COULD BE INTERPRETED THAT BOTH OF THEM HAVE TO BE IN THERE AND LIKE MI MIAMI FOR PARTS OF FLORIDA REQUIRE FOR A HANDICAP STALL.
THEY BOTH HAVE TO BE IN THE, IN THERE.
SO THAT'S JUST A PIECE WHY I'M KIND OF ASKING THAT QUESTION IS I'VE SEEN THAT INTERPRETED IN, IN SUCH A FASHION.
MIKE, YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT THIS WOULD NOT THEN REQUIRE THAT A LAB BE IN EACH WATER CLOSET.
UH, STALLS WOULD BE SEPARATE AND UH, THE LABORATORIES WOULD BE A COMMON AREA.
THEN, THEN, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S, WE AS A BOARD, WE, WE THINK THAT'S THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION.
THE LABORATORIES CAN BE OUTSIDE OF THE STALL ENCLOSURE AND IT WOULD COMPLY WITH THAT INTENT.
AND ARE WE GOING TO, DO THEY HAVE, IF, IF THE FRONT OF THE STALL IS OPEN, SO THE, THE FRONT OF THE STALL DOES NOT HAVE TO GO FORWARD TO CEILING? CORRECT.
THE DOOR WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO FLOOR TO CEILING.
SO IF YOU HAD A DOOR THAT WAS SHORTER OR TALLER, WOULD THAT LET YOU VENT THAT STUFF OUT WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK AND PUT A SEPARATE EXHAUST FAN IN EACH STALL? I'VE ALWAYS SEEN IT DONE WHERE THE DOORS WENT FULL HEIGHT AND YOU HAD A LURE DRILL TO ALLOW TRANSFER AIR INTO THE STALL.
AND THAT WOULD ALLOW YOU NOT TO HAVE TO VENT EACH TOILET? NO, YOU STILL HAVE TO, THAT'S JUST, THAT'S ALLOWED TO A TRANSFER DOOR TO ALLOW AIR INTO THE STALL AND THEN IT'S EXHAUSTED OUT.
I'VE DONE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS IN OUR OWN BUILDING WHERE WE ARE ONE FOOT FROM THE CEILING AND MAYBE AN EIGHTH OF AN INCH AT THE BOTTOM AND NOT HAD TO DO A SEPARATE VENTILATION, BUT EVERYTHING'S LIKE ONE, ONE CLIP OF THE CEILING.
WELL LET, LET ME ADD ANOTHER PIECE THAT'S GONNA GET THIS, 'CAUSE YOU JUST MADE ME THINK ABOUT IT.
EACH STALL WILL AND WILL REQUIRE A FIRE SPRINKLER HEAD IN IT TOO.
NOW, WHICH AGAIN, THIS IS AN OPTION AND IT'S, IT'S FOR AN OWNER TO, TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION.
BUT THAT IS A PIECE THAT WE THINK ABOUT THAT AS THAT'S GONNA BE FROM AN INSPECTION STANDPOINT, IF THIS IS IMPLY DONE, I THINK EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE A, A FIRE SPRINKLER HEAD IN IT.
AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF SOMEBODY CONVERTED A BATHROOM TO A MULTI-USE FEMALE MALE MULTI-GENDER BATHROOM AFTER THE FACT? WOULD THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THIS OR THEY'RE CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THIS.
I DON'T MEAN TO BE SILLY, BUT WHAT DEFINES A URINAL ENCLOSURE IF WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT TAKING IT ALL THE WAY TO THE WALL? I MEAN, ALL THE WAY TO THE CEILING WITH A CLOSED DOOR.
IS IS THAT WHAT THE ENCLOSURE IS GOING TO IMPLY? WALLS AND A DOOR, YES.
THAT IS AN ACTUAL PHYSICALLY CLOSING DOOR AS OPPOSED TO A STALL DOOR THAT WE'RE USING ON THE TOILETS.
I I'M, MAYBE I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION.
[01:55:01]
WHETHER IT'S A FULL HEIGHT DOOR OR A STALL DOOR.I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WERE LIKE OVERLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE DOOR.
YOU'RE JUST TALKING ON THE URINAL PORTION.
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TOILET ENCLOSURE AND A URINAL ENCLOSURE OR THE TOILET STALL AND A URINAL ENCLOSURE.
AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING AGENDA RESTROOM WHERE MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN GO IN, UH, SHARING THE SAME BATHROOM.
THE BOOK HAS STALLS IN THERE WHERE MEN ARE DOING THEIR THINGS, UM, AWAY FROM WHERE THE, THE STALLS ARE.
WELL BY ENCLOSING THOSE STALLS INTO ENCLOSURES, AGAIN, YOU'D BE ISOLATED FROM THE KIDS, UH, WOMEN, MEN, UH, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER'S IN THAT BATHROOM.
SO, SO AGAIN, WE'RE DEFINING AN ENCLOSURE WITH A SOLID DOOR.
THAT DOES NOT HAVE ANY OPENINGS AT THE TOP OR BOTTOM BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ENCLOSURES FOR THE REST, FOR THE, THE WATER CLOSETS, THE URINALS, AND THEN A COMMON LAVATORY.
SO AGAIN, WITH OPEN STALLS, UH, USING THOSE LABORATORIES, UM, YEAH.
SO AGAIN, THEN WE ADD THE BURDEN OF HV UH, HVAC AND FIRE SUPPRESSION INTO THAT PARTICULAR AREA OF THE URINAL.
WE'RE NOT FORCING EVERYBODY TO DO THIS.
SO THAT'S, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT.
IT'S AN OPTION FOR AN OWNER TO COMPLY AS THEY, IF THEY CHOOSE THIS OPTION.
BUT IT ALSO, BY PUTTING IT LIKE YOU'RE DOING IT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEBODY COMES BACK AND CONVERTS AND ALL THAT STUFF IS NOT IN THERE.
THEY EITHER HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO CONVERT OR THEY DON'T CONVERT.
I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TAKING A STANDARD FOUR URINALS WITH 18 INCH PARTITIONS AND, AND FOUR TOILET STALLS AND THEN WANTING TO BUILD OUT WITH A SOLID WALL AND YOU KNOW, SOLID WOOD DOOR TYPE SETUP.
YEAH, AND, AND SO WHAT I WAS THINKING IS MAYBE I'VE, I LIKE THE INTENT OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING SO YOU DON'T GET PEOPLE PEEPING OVER THE BATHROOM AND STUFF LIKE THAT TO PROTECT LITTLE KIDS AND FEMALES OR, OR MALES WHO ARE GOING TO THE BATHROOM.
BUT I THINK YOU CAN DO IT AND ALLOW, YOU KNOW, SOME AIR GAP AT THE TOP TO HANDLE THE VENTILATION PROBLEM AND AIR AND OFF THE FLOOR.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, PROBLEMS IF THEY WANT TO CONTINUE TO USE STALLS.
I MEAN, IF WE COULD GET THOSE WALLS HIGH ENOUGH WHERE SOMEBODY CAN'T STAND ON A WATER CLOSET, UH, WE'RE LIVING IN THE, IN THE AGE OF CELL PHONES AND CAMERAS.
SO, UH, THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO AGAIN, PROTECT SOMEBODY'S PERSON AGAIN BY A SIMPLE CLICK OR UNDERNEATH.
UM, THE IDEA OF THAT GAP ON THE BOTTOM WIRE MESH.
UH, THERE HAS TO BE A SOLUTION OUT THERE.
BUT AGAIN, GETTING THOSE IN THERE WHERE SOMEBODY CAN'T STAND UP, TAKE A PICTURE, KNEEL DOWN IN, PUT A CAMERA DOWN BELOW SOMETHING.
SO WOULD Y'ALL BE OKAY WITH, YOU KNOW, A PARTITION THAT GOES WITHIN THREE INCHES OF THE CEILING AND WALL ONE INCH FROM THE BOTTOM? I, I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK IF WE DO THIS FROM A PRIVACY PERSPECTIVE, IT'S GOTTA GO ALL THE WAY UP.
I WAS THINKING A TYPICAL DOOR GAP AT THE BOTTOM IS THREE QUARTERS OF AN INCH.
AND IN THEORY, YOU KNOW, I, AGAIN, I'M THINKING IF OF AN INDIVIDUAL SITTING ON A TOILET, IF SOMEBODY WERE TO TRY TO SLIDE A CAMERA UNDERNEATH THE DOOR, YOU'LL SEE IT.
IF YOU'RE A GUY USING A URINAL, YOUR BACK'S TO THE DOOR, THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET A PICTURE OF MUCH OF ANYTHING ANYWAY.
BUT IF YOU'RE ON, ON THE SIDES, IT WOULD BE VERY EASY FOR IF, IF A WOMAN WAS SET USING THE, USING A TOILET AND SOMEBODY'S AGAINST THE WALL, YOU COULD SLIDE A CAMERA UNDER THERE AND, AND THE USER OF THE, OF THE STALL WOULD NOT KNOW IT.
SO I THINK THE WALLS HAVE TO GO FULL HEIGHT IF THE, IF AN OWNER WERE TO CHOOSE THIS OPTION TO COMPLY, SO DO WE THEN ACCEPT OR ASK FOR CLARIFICATION? SO WOULD A LOUVER AT THE TOP ALLOW THE AL FLOW TO A EXHAUST? WHERE'D ALL OUR MECHANICAL GUYS GO? I, I DON'T THINK WE GET ENOUGH CONVECTION TO REALLY TO
[02:00:01]
CLEAR THE AREA AT ALL.I'M JUST SHOOTING FROM THE HIP HERE.
I THINK EVEN WE DID A LOUVER ON TOP OF THE DOOR, A LOUVER AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DOOR.
NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT A LOUVER.
A LOUVER AT THE TOP 12 INCHES NEAR WHERE THE FAN WOULD BE PULLING AIR.
IF YOU ONLY HAVE ONE LOUVER, YOU CAN'T EVEN GET A CONVECTION CURRENT TO, TO MOVE AIR OUT OF THAT STALL.
SO YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST TWO LOUVERS OR, OR A THREE QUARTER INCH UNDERCUT ON THE DOOR AND A LOUVER.
AND I, I JUST, I JUST DON'T THINK YOU'D GET ENOUGH AIR CONVECTIVE CURRENT IN THERE TO MOVE, REMOVE THE ODOR.
I THINK YOU'D STILL HAVE TO, YOU'D HAVE TO VENT MECHANICALLY VENTILATE EACH ONE OF THE, THE, THE STALLS ARE ENCLOSURES.
OKAY, THEN WE SHOULD JUST LEAVE IT LIKE THEY'RE PROPOSING AS PROPOSED.
WELL DO WE, IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT DOORS.
IT JUST SAYS WALLS, WATER CLOSET WALL SHALL EXTEND FROM FLOOR TO CEILING.
AND I THINK WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT AND INCLUDE DOORS SO THAT, THAT THE DOOR, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A THREE QUARTER INCH UNDERCUT ON A DOOR, THE, THE, AND I'M SAYING WHEN I SAY DOOR, THE FRONT SURFACE OF THAT, WHETHER YOU HAVE 18 INCHES OF WALL UP ABOVE AND THEN THE DOOR OR YOU HAVE A 12 FOOT TALL DOOR, IT HAS TO EXTEND FULL HEIGHT WITH NO MORE THAN LIKE THREE QUARTER INCH GAP OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
COULD YOU USE THE WORD INSTEAD OF SPECIFYING ALL THAT JUST SAY FULLY ENCLOSED, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE THE DOOR FULLY ENCLOSED.
YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD MEET THE INTENT.
YEAH, AGAIN, WE JUST SAY THE INTENT IS YEAH.
AND AGAIN, FROM OUR, OUR POINT TALKING TO THE CITY IS FULLY ENCLOSED WOULD ALLOW THAT THREE QUARTER INCH GAP AT THE TOP AND BOTTOM OF A DOOR TYPE OF STUFF.
SO WE DON'T GET SOMEBODY LIKE ME THAT'S A**L RETENTIVE AND INTERPRETS IT SAYING, NO, YOU GOTTA HAVE A DOOR SWEEP ON THE TOP AND BOTTOM NOW.
BUT A THREE QUARTER INCH GAP WOULD BE STILL ENCLOSED.
OKAY, SO WATER CLOSETS AND URINALS FULLY ENCLOSED AND IT FULLY ENCLOSED IF YOU WANT TO USE IT AS A OPTION.
BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING YOU WANT TOILET AND YOUR ROOM IF YOU'RE HAVING A MULTI AND THEN THE WATER CLOSET COULD BE ONE, I MEAN WITH THE SINKS, COED SINKS, YES.
THAT'S HOW WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT.
NOW THEN THE ONLY OTHER THING WOULD BE YOU'VE GOT NODE DOWN IN, IN POTENTIAL CONSTRUCTION COST INCREASE
SO WE WOULDN'T BE REQUIRING THEM TO PROVIDE GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOMS THAT COMPLY WITH THIS.
SO THE NEXT ITEM IS ALSO, UM, IN REGARDS TO THE NEW EXCEPTION FOR GENDER NEUTRAL.
I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE BIG ITEM, BUT THIS IS HOW TO, UM, CALCULATE THE QUANTITY OF FIXTURES REQUIRED.
TWO, WE WOULD PROPOSE TO MODIFY THAT LAST SENTENCE WHERE IT SAYS, AND EACH URINAL THAT'S PROVIDED SHALL BE LOCATED IN A, IN A STALL.
SO WE WOULD PUT ENCLOSURE THERE, JUST LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT, THE URINALS WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE SEPARATED BY PARTITION WALLS OR STALLS IF YOU, IT WAS AN ALL-BOY BATHROOM, CORRECT? CORRECT.
WELL, THEY DO HAVE TO HAVE PARTITIONS THAT THAT'S, UM, LATER WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT PARTITIONS FOR URINALS.
AND 4 0 5, 3 5 IS SPECIFIC FOR URINAL PARTITIONS.
UM, SO WE'RE NOT PROPOSING TO MODIFY THOSE, UH, MALE FEMALE BATHROOM REQUIREMENTS.
WE JUST FEEL IT ADDS CONSISTENCY TO THE SECTION THAT WE JUST MODIFIED.
NEXT, NEXT, ITEM 21 IS CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT FOR 4 0 5 0.3 0.1 FOR WATER CLOSETS, UM, URINALS, LABS AND BIDET.
SO WE'RE PROPOSING TO KEEP THIS AMENDMENT THAT ALLOWS LABORATORIES TO BE CLOSER THAN 15 INCHES FROM CENTER TO SIDEWALL PARTITION VANITY TO OR OTHER.
SO WE SAW THIS, UM, MARK, LIKE IN, IN RENOVATIONS WHERE THE SPACE IS TIGHT, THEY,
[02:05:01]
UM, WE'LL PUT IT CLOSER THAN 15 INCHES TO THE SIDEWALL.I MEAN, THERE'S NO, THIS IS BASICALLY FOR THE 15 INCHES TO THE SIDEWALL BASICALLY MEANS YOU NEED A 30 INCH MINIMUM BETWEEN THEM.
COULD, COULD YOU BRING UP THE EXACT AMENDMENT LANGUAGE? SURE.
UM, YEAH, SO WE JUST STRIKE OUT LABORATORY IN THAT FIRST SENTENCE.
SO WE DON'T REQUIRE THIS, UM, THESE SPECIFICATIONS FOR LABS.
SO ARE WE THEN GONNA DEFINE THE ALLOWABLE OR THE SPACE FOR THAT LABORATORY? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IT RIGHT UP AGAINST IT.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE'VE, IF WE'VE BEEN SEEING THAT, BUT I MEAN IF YOU'RE, UM, A STRICT CODE WOULDN'T REQUIRE A A DISTANCE.
THE LACK OF HASN'T REALLY BEEN A PROBLEM.
UM, AS FAR AS KEEPING IT IN CORNER LABORATORIES, UM, HASN'T BEEN A, A REAL ISSUE AND I'M SORRY, HASN'T BEEN A REAL ISSUE.
AND WE ALWAYS THOUGHT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, MY, BUT THIS WAS THERE FOR MAYBE CLEANING PURPOSES THAT WE REALLY DON'T SEE IT AS A, UM, LIFE SAFETY ISSUE.
THAT'S WHY WE, WE RECOMMENDED, UM, WHAT ABOUT 88? WAS THIS 2018 OR EVEN BEFORE THAT? I THINK THIS WAS 2018 WE TOOK IT OUT.
YOU REMEMBER THE 15? 15? YEAH.
SINCE 2015 WE'VE HAD IT REMOVED.
I, FOR FROM AN A D A PERSPECTIVE, I, PART OF ME WITH, THE REASON I WAS ASKING TO SEE THE ACTUAL AMENDMENT IS, IS HAVING RENOVATED 1940S GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS, YOU CAN'T GET THERE NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.
UM, WOULD WE RATHER JUST SEE THIS DONE AS A, UM, CASE BY CASE NEW CONSTRUCTION OR HEAVY REMODEL? I MEAN, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GETTING THIS TO THE POINT WHERE WE'RE DOING AN ACTUAL REMODEL IN A BATHROOM, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE SWAPPING FIXTURES, NO BIG DEAL BECAUSE YOU'D BE GRANDFATHERED.
BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT MOVING THAT TOILET AT ALL, I I OR THE LABORATORY AT ALL, I THINK YOU'RE, IT NEEDS TO BE IN THERE.
UM, I'M JUST THINKING THAT THIS, THAT THAT EXCEPTION FOR 15 INCHES I THINK SHOULD ONLY BE IN EXISTING CONSTRUCTION.
IT SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED IN NEW, I MEAN, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT SAYS THAT CAN'T BE IN NEW CONSTRUCTION? NO, THIS WOULD, UH, APPLY TO NEW CONSTRUCTION.
THEN I THINK WE SHOULD ADD A WORD THAT, THAT IT'S, THAT IT'S ONLY, THE EXCEPTIONS ONLY ALLOWABLE FOR RENOVATIONS AND NOT NEW CONSTRUCTION.
YEAH, BUT I, I WOULD TELL YOU THAT LIKE EVEN IN NEW CONSTRUCTIONS WHERE YOU'RE SHORT ON SPACE, HAVING A CORNER SINK BECAUSE THAT CORNER SINK WOULD BE SITTING TWO INCHES FROM THE WALL, BUT IT'S IN A CORNER CABINET, IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
AND IF YOU HAVE A D A REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, NONE OF THIS MATTERS BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE A D A, YOU KNOW, SO, SO ANY NEW CONSTRUCTION BUILDINGS GONNA HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE HANDICAPPED BATHROOM THAT COMPLIES WITH A D A.
EVERYTHING ELSE REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.
AS LONG AS YOU CAN WASH YOUR SINK YOUR HANDS, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A CORNER SINK OR A PEDESTAL SINK AND UP AGAINST THE WALL, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL CAN GET AT THE SINK TO WASH YOUR HANDS.
IF IT'S AN A D A BATHROOM, YOU'RE GONNA NEED, YOU KNOW, TWO OR THREE FEET ON THE SIDE OF THE THING TO BE ABLE TO GET THE WEIGHT WHEELCHAIR IN TO DO THAT.
YEAH, I, I WILL JUST SAY I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT, SO I DON'T REALLY CARE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, BUT IT'S, IF WE'RE NOT GONNA CARE ON LABORATORIES, WHY DO WE CARE ANYWHERE ELSE? JUST BEING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE ON THAT ONE.
WELL, IT'S KIND OF HARD SITTING SIDEWAYS ON A TOILET
I'VE SEEN IT DONE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS AT ABOUT ONE IN THE MORNING.
UH, THAT MIGHT'VE BEEN A SINK IN A URINAL TO WAIT.
I MEAN, I, I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT THE INTENT WAS TO GIVE US ENOUGH ROOM TO STAND AND WASH OUR HANDS PROPERLY.
I SEE THE CONFLICT WHERE IT WOULD BE IN A CORNER, CORNER SET LAVATORY, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE, I'VE NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT THAT WAY.
WE'D NEVER BE ABLE TO FIT THAT 15 OFF EACH SIDE.
AND AS WE HAVE IT ADOPTED RIGHT NOW, THIS WOULD APPLY TO NEW, UH, RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION, RIGHT? SO THIS WOULD, UM, THIS WOULD BE FOR THOSE TINY HOMES, THE, YOU KNOW, HABITAT, YOU KNOW, SMALLER, UH, SMALLER BUILT HOMES, UH, WOULD REQUIRE THE SYSTEM SPENCER.
I MEAN, YOU'D TYPICALLY NEED, LIKE FOR A DOUBLE LAB, YOU'D NEED 60 INCHES OF CABINET SPACE THERE IN A LOT OF SPACES ARE A LOT TIGHTER THAN THAT.
SO I THINK THAT THAT IS DESIGNED FOR THAT PURPOSE THERE.
SO YOU CAN GET A LITTLE BIT TIGHTER ON THE LABS.
WELL, TO YOUR POINT WITH THE DOUBLE, I THINK THAT COULD BE AS LONG AS THERE'S AT LEAST 30
[02:10:01]
INCHES TOTAL, EVEN WITH A DOUBLE LVE.I MEAN THAT SOUNDS KIND OF SILLY, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS IS DESIGNED FOR IS I THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS IS MAINLY DESIGNED FOR.
SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE TRYING TO CREATE A DOUBLE LAV IN A BATHROOM LIKE SAID, I'LL LET IT, LET IT FLY.
JUST AS BEING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE ON A BIT OF THAT.
YOU GUYS GOOD? KEEPING THIS AMENDMENT ALRIGHT.
OKAY, NEXT ITEM IS CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT TO FOUR 10.2.
SO THIS ALLOWS, UM, OCCUPANCIES TO REACH AN OCCUPANT LOAD OF 30 BEFORE THE DRINKING FOUNTAINS ARE REQUIRED.
NOW I'M GONNA KIND OF GIVE THIS ONE AS, AS JUST WHY ARE WE AMENDING? I MEAN, I KNOW IT'S A COST SAVINGS, BUT AGAIN, IT'S THE NATIONAL CODE.
THIS ONE, I DON'T HAVE A BIG DOG IN THE FIGHT OF IT THOUGH.
I, AGAIN, FROM, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF PLACES WHERE WE'VE BEEN GOING IN AND ADDING AFTER COVID WE WERE ADDING BOT BOTTLE FILLERS ONTO WA ONTO DRINKING FOUNTAINS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT AGAIN, DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT ON THIS ONE.
SO CAN I ASK IN, IN THE DAY WHERE YOU CAN GET A WATER BOTTLE SYSTEM DELIVERED THAT COOLS AND HEATS THE WATER AND STUFF LIKE THAT, WHY IS THERE A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A DRINKING FOUNTAIN AT ALL? NO.
YOU KNOW, NO, I, I, I UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S IN THERE, BUT IN AN AGE OF POST COVID WHERE, YOU KNOW, IN EVERY BUILDING AROUND TOWN THAT I HAVE BEEN IN, EXCEPT FOR I THINK HERE THEY HAVE GARBAGE BAGS OVER THE WATER, OVER ALL OF THE WATER THINGS BECAUSE YOU KNOW OF COVID AND LIKE IN MY SYNAGOGUE THERE'S TALK OF THEM TAKING 'EM DOWN BECAUSE OF THE SPREAD OF FLU AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THE DISEASES THAT COME FROM PEOPLE HAND TO MOUTH TOUCHING AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO, BECAUSE IT'S BASICALLY THE MOST UNSANITARY, YOU KNOW, PLACE IN THE, IS THE WATER FOUNTAIN.
WELL, I GUESS, UM, IN TEXAS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE COMING INTO A BUILDING AND YOU NEED A DRINK OF WATER, THIS IS ENFORCEABLE.
A DRINKING FOUNTAIN INSTALLED BEFORE YOU GET YOUR C F O, WE CAN'T ENFORCE WATER DISPENSERS OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT'S NOT ENFORCEABLE.
UM, TO, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE KEEPING, KEEPING THOSE THINGS FILLED.
UH, AND I BELIEVE IT'S MAKING SURE THAT'RE IT IS THAT POTABLE WATER IS BEING PROVIDED.
'CAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS RENT A MACHINE, GET PAST INSPECTIONS AND TAKE IT BACK OUT.
I STILL CHALLENGE THE, THE FIRST, THE NUMBER 21.
WE'RE NOT GONNA DEFINE ANY MINIMUM SPACE ON THESE LABORATORIES.
YOU'RE GONNA LET IT BE AS CLOSE TO THE WALL AS POSSIBLE.
'CAUSE YOU'RE RE YOU WANNA REMOVE YOUR 15 INCH SPACING.
NOT THAT I SORT BEGIN TO FLESH OUT YOUR IDEA AN EIGHT INCH BOWL.
I MEAN, IF, IF SOME KNUCKLEHEAD PUTS IT RIGHT UP AGAINST THE LABORATORY OR STANDING SIDEWAYS TRYING TO WASH YOUR HANDS.
WELL, I, SO YOU STAND SIDEWAYS WASHING YOUR HANDS.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU ARE ON THE TO, I MEAN, THERE, I MEAN, WHAT WE HAVE TO CONSIDER IS THERE'S GOING TO BE A WHOLE LOT OF READAPTIVE USES TO A WHOLE LOT OF PLACES AROUND TOWN TO, YOU KNOW, TO COMMERCIAL USES THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE IT AS EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE RULES ARE MADE FOR CONVENIENCE.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE RULES FOR A TOILET, THERE'S A DEFINITE REASON WHY YOU DON'T.
BUT IF YOU HAVE TO STAND A LITTLE COCKEYE TO WASH YOUR HANDS, IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
AND, AND NOT THAT WE, UM, WE COULDN'T SEE SOMEBODY ABUSE THAT, BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN THEM, UM, PROPOSE THE LABS UP AGAINST THE WALL TO CIRCUMVENT THIS SECTION.
WELL, AGAIN, GIVE YOU THE WORST CASE SCENARIO.
I THINK I'VE SEEN AN EIGHT INCH STAINLESS STEEL SINK BEFORE ITTY BITTY LITTLE STAINLESS SINK.
AND THAT WOULD COMPLY, IN ESSENCE IS A LAVATORY UNDER TO, TO FLUSH YOUR POINT OUT THAT YOU COULD PUT IT BETWEEN TWO COLUMNS AND HAVE AN EIGHT INCH, NINE INCH COUNTERTOP WITH A ETY BITTY SINK IN THERE.
I'M THINKING THAT DENNIS, YOU KNOW, WITH THIS BOWL WE USED TO HAVE TO SPIT IN THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING,
[02:15:03]
IT REALLY HASN'T, IT REALLY HASN'T BEEN THAT BIG OF AN ISSUE.UM, THE BUILDERS REALLY HAVEN'T ABUSED THAT.
I THINK WHEN WE STRUCK THAT, UM, BUILDERS WERE IN AN UPRISE, UH, UH, BUILDING THEIR, THEIR BATHROOMS, UH, BUT FOR THE MOST PART IT HASN'T BEEN A BIG ISSUE AS FAR AS US COMING ACROSS AND SEEING A LABORATORY 12, 10 INCHES FROM THE WALL.
AND YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S BECAUSE THE RULE HAS BEEN IN PLACE? THE RULE OF NO, THE 15 INCH RULE HAS BEEN OUT OF THE CODE FOR A WHILE.
UM, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?
UM, WERE, WERE WE PLANNING ON ENDING AT ONE 30? UH, THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD.
1 30, 1 35 FOR ANOTHER COMMITTEE MEETING, OUR BOARD MEETING AFTERWARDS.
I, I'D LIKE TO JUST KIND OF, I'M GONNA, IF YOU'LL, IF YOU'LL HUMOR ME JUST FOR A COUPLE MINUTES, THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THESE THAT I DID WANT TO TALK ABOUT SINCE I'M NOT GONNA BE HERE NEXT WEEK.
I, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, LET ME, LET ME, ME KINDA GO THROUGH THE LIST AND MAYBE THEY'RE NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.
UM, ITEM 26 ABOUT ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS UNDER STAIRWAYS AND LANDINGS.
UH, DOESN'T THE I B C RESTRICT THE INSTALLATION OF STUFF IN STAIR THAT MAYBE JUST STAIR TOWERS, MAYBE NOT STAIRWAYS.
THAT WAS JUST A QUICK QUESTION I HAD ON THAT ONE.
UM, ITEM 30, I HAVE DONE A FEW DESIGNS THAT'S ON THE SIZE OF WATER SERVICE.
SO BEFORE YOU MOVE ON, CAN WE JUST ADDRESS IT BECAUSE WE MAY JUST ADD THAT ITEM TO THE THING AND BE DO, DONE AND FINISHED WITH IT.
SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE? WELL, IF NO, IT JUST WAS A QUESTION ON THAT ONE, AND SINCE WE HAVE A HARD STOP, I JUST WANTED TO, TO PUT MY THOUGHTS ON THESE REALLY QUICK SO THAT YOU GUYS NEXT WEEK COULD, COULD TALK ABOUT 'EM IF I, IF THEY GET THAT FAR.
UH, THE WATER SERVICE PIPE SHALL BE AT LEAST THE SAME SIZE AS THE WATER DISTRIBUTION.
I'VE DONE A FEW DESIGNS WHERE I'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, AN INCH AND A HALF INSIDE THE BUILDING AND ONLY SERVED IT WITH A ONE INCH WATER LINE COMING IN.
I, THAT'S ONE OF THE ONES I WOULD SAY WE DON'T NEED THE AMENDMENT.
I DON'T THINK IT SERVES A PURPOSE.
UM, WHAT IT'S KIND OF CAUGHT ME ON IN A FEW PLACES IS CITIES, I'LL USE DENVER AS AN EXAMPLE.
THEIR WATER TAP FEES ARE RIDICULOUSLY HIGH.
UM, AND THEY, IF WE FORCE THAT, I, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE TAP FEES HERE IN SAN ANTONIO ARE.
IT JUST COULD INCREASE THE TAP COST WHEN YOU REALLY ONLY NEED A THREE QUARTER INCH OR ONE INCH AND YOU JUST HAPPEN TO DO A, A HEADER, UM, RIGHT INSIDE THE BUILDING.
SO THAT WAS ONE I, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO AMEND.
UM, IT, IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE FIXTURE COUNT.
THE OTHER ONE I, THAT I'M SITTING HERE JUST THINKING WHERE'S THE BACKFLOW? OKAY.
UM, ITEM 40, THIS IS THE ONE WE CAN, IS IT 40? YEAH, IT'LL, IT'S KIND OF HITS 40, 44 AND 45.
THIS IS ONE OF THOSE ONES THAT I, THAT I THINK WILL, WILL TAKE A, A LARGE CHUNK OF DISCUSSION.
SO ON THAT ONE, LET'S, I'D SAY IF WE CAN JUMP TO THOSE AND HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS ON BACKFLOW PREVENTIONS FOR COFFEE AND SODA MACHINES, GO AHEAD AND LET US JUMP TO 44.
45 40 AS WELL, I BELIEVE WAS, UM, STRIKING OUT THE STANDARD AND THEN REFERENCING UM, A S S E 10 15, UM, DUE TO THE FACT THAT 10 20 IS NOT A TESTABLE DEVICE.
AND MIKE, YOU CAN ELABORATE ON WHICH ONE ON THESE REQUIREMENTS.
SO ON NUMBER 40 WE HAVE OUR CURRENT AMENDMENT TO 6 0 8 0.1.
I THINK IT, IT'S FOR THE SAME THING.
IT'S FOR THE CARBONATED BEVERAGE, THE BACKFLOW REQUIREMENT FOR THE CARBONATED BEVERAGE DISPENSERS.
SO THE REASON, THE REASON I WANTED TO BRING THAT ONE UP, UH, SPECIFICALLY IS THE, ALRIGHT, LEMME GET BACK TO WHERE I NEEDED TO BE FOR, FOR THE SODA FOUNTAIN, A CARBONATED BEVERAGE MACHINE, 10 22, IF I WAS LOOKING AT IT CORRECTLY, THAT'S A DOUBLE CHECK WITH AN ATMOSPHERIC VENT BETWEEN THE TWO.
IT'S ALSO A $200 BACKFLOW PREVENTER THAT THE INSPECTION ON IT LITERALLY IS.
YOU LOOK AT IT AND IF IT'S GOT WATER COMING OUTTA THE ATMOSPHERIC VENT, IT FAILS AS OPPOSED TO THE WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT.
BUT I MEAN IN GENERAL, UM, HE SAID NOT NECESSARILY.
[02:20:01]
THOUSAND DOLLARS BACKFLOW PREVENTER ON A LOW RISK SYSTEM THAT, YOU KNOW, I KIND OF GO WORST CASE SCENARIO, WE CARBONATE THE WATERLINE OR WE CAFFEINATE THE POPULATION.AND, AND I THINK IT'S A, A OVERKILL.
IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE OVERKILL THAT THAT GOES WITH THAT.
AND THAT'S ALSO THE SAME THING ON THE COFFEE MACHINE.
I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER ONE IS, IS REQUIRING, UH, AND, AND I WOULD SAY I THINK 10 15 IS A SIMPLE DOUBLE CHECK.
SO IN THEORY IT IS A LESS SAFE BACKFLOW PREVENTION DEVICE.
AND THAT'S, UH, WHY I KIND OF ASKED ON WHAT A S S E, UH, 10 15 VERSUS 10 22 IS.
AND MOST OF THE, THE CUT SHEETS THAT I PULLED UP, THE 10 22 REQUIRES THE SECOND CHECK TO BE STAINLESS AS OPPOSED TO I THINK IRON OR BRONZE.
SO LIKE IN A SODA MACHINE, YOU CAN HAVE A HIGHLY ACIDIC ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE COULD GET THAT BACK AND AND DEGRADE AN IRON BACKFLOW PREVENTER.
SO I JUST, BOTH OF THOSE I HAVE, UH, AND I'VE TALKED TO SOME OF MY OTHER ENGINEERING COWORKERS AND OTHER ENGINEERS I WORK WITH, AND WE ALL RAISED OUR EYEBROWS AT THE CITY GOING TO A LESS, IN ESSENCE, A LESS SAFE BACKFLOW PREVENTER IN ORDER TO, TO MAKE JUST SIMPLY MAKE IT TESTABLE ON A LOW RISK OCCURRENCE.
I MEAN, I'LL I'LL GO ONE PERSONAL STEP FURTHER AND KIND OF GO, I DON'T EVEN SEE WHY WE'RE TESTING THESE BACKFLOWS, YOU KNOW, FROM AN ANNUAL, I ASSUME WE WERE DO HAVING TO DO IT ANNUALLY ON THIS, THIS DEVICE WHERE IT, TO ME IT'S AN INTRUSION INTO A BUSINESS OWNER AS LONG AS THEY'RE THERE.
AND I, I KIND OF SPOT CHECKED A COUPLE COFFEE MACHINES OVER THE LAST COUPLE DAYS AND AIN'T THERE ANYWAY.
SO IT'S, IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE ONES.
I JUST SEE THIS AS A, A VERY EXPENSIVE AND REGULARLY OCCURRING ENCROACHMENT FOR, FOR BUSINESS OWNERS TO HAVE TO TAKE.
I MEAN, EVERY OFFICE BUILDING THAT'S GOT A PIPED IN COFFEE POT IS NOW GOING TO BE PAYING A THOUSAND BUCKS FOR A BACKFLOW PREVENTER AND AN ANNUAL INSPECTION WHEN THEY PROBABLY WISH THEY WOULD CAFFEINATE THEIR ENTIRE STAFF.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY KIND OF HITS ON THAT IS I, I DON'T BELIEVE WE SHOULD AMEND THAT.
I THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE IT WHERE ALONE WHERE IT IS.
IF THE CITY STILL WANTS TO ENFORCE AN INSPECTION, I THINK MORE OR LESS YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU ROLL IT BACK TO A VISUAL INSPECTION TO MAKE SURE IT'S THERE AND THAT'S IT.
I MEAN, DO Y'ALL HAVE THE STAFF TO GO OUT AND INSPECT A HUNDRED THOUSAND COFFEE POTS? I MEAN EVERY CONVENIENCE STORE HAS ONE OR TWO OR THREE OF THOSE IN.
THEY'RE PROBABLY EACH INDIVIDUAL DONE.
IT MEANS THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO PAY THE PLUMBER A HUNDRED DOLLARS PER OR MORE PER DEVICE TO DO THAT.
AND IF IT'S NO BIG DEAL, I MEAN IF, IF SAWS IS NOT, IF THIS ISN'T A REQUIREMENT OF T C E Q AND THERE'S NO CITY ORDINANCE THAT HAS IT NOW, I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE JUST LEAVE THE CODE LANGUAGE LIKE IT IS AND CALL IT A DATE ON ALL OF THOSE BACKFLOW PREVENTERS THAT AREN'T REQUIRED BY, UH, SOME OTHER CODE BY THE STATE OR BY SOME WATER QUALITY ORDINANCE, LIKE THE LANDSCAPING STUFF, UH, IN THE CODE.
SO LET ME JUST JUMP IN REAL QUICK.
UH, TECHNICALLY THIS IS MAINLY SAWS REQUIREMENT.
UH, ANYTIME YOU TIE INTO SAWS, YOU NEED TO HAVE A BACKFLOW PREVENTER.
UH, I BELIEVE IT IS IN CHAPTER 34, 1 OF THE CITY ORDINANCES, THE SAME ONE WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.
WHAT WE CAN DO IS DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH AND LET YOU KNOW.
BUT JUST F Y I WE DO NOT TEST BACKFLOW PREVENTERS EXCEPT WHEN THEY'RE INSTALLED THAT DAY.
SIZE IS THE ONE WHO FOLLOWS UP ON THAT.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE IF THERE IS NO CITY, OTHER CITY REQUIREMENT FOR BACKFLOWS TO BE AT THE TESTABLE LEVEL, THAT WHATEVER IS IN THE CODE STATES AND ALL THOSE AMENDMENTS DEALING WITH CHANGING IT FROM A 10 22 STANDARD TO A 10 15 STANDARD, BE DELETED FROM THE AMENDMENTS.
UH, AGAIN, HAVE TO ASK YOU CHAPTER 34, WE, WE NEED TO LOOK INTO CHAPTER 34 AND LET YOU KNOW UNTIL YOU GUYS CAN COME BACK.
DO THAT TWO WEEKS, THE THE THIRD MEETING AND I'LL BE HERE AND I CAN ARGUE IT SOME MORE.
IT MIGHT BE HAVE TO BE BE LIKE LOCKING, LOCKING REFRIGERANT CAPS.
IT MIGHT TAKE ME A FEW YEARS TO GET IT OUT, BUT
SO GREG, THAT'LL BE, UM, TWO CURRENT AMENDMENTS THAT REFERENCE THE CARBONATED BEVERAGE DISPENSERS.
DID YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT, UH, ITEM 45?
[02:25:01]
SO WE, UM, WE STRIKE OUT A S SS E 10 12 IN REFERENCE A S SS E 10 13, I BELIEVE THAT WAS ON YOUR LIST.UH, LEMME TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY, MIKE, UH, A S SS E 10 22 YET THERE'S A REFERENCE THAT IT SAYS IT'S NON TESTABLE.
IF IT'S A DOUBLE CHECK WITH A VENT OR AN ATMOSPHERIC VENT.
IS IT NOT AN R P Z THAT IS TESTABLE? NOT THE, NOT THE 22.
SO WHEN DID SOMETHING BELOW AN R P Z START OUT ON CARBONATED DISPENSERS? WE'VE BEEN USING THE DCS SINCE THE EIGHTIES PLUS.
SO IS IT ONLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE RUNNING COPPER TO THE DISPENSERS IF THAT CARBONATION HITS THE COPPER? WE'VE GOT A POISON.
ARE WE ASSUMING THAT IT'S ALL GONNA BE BRAIDED LINE NOW AFTER THE DC SO YOUR, YOUR BACKFLOW PREVENTER IS TO SEPARATE THAT COPPER SUPPLYING MM-HMM.
I MEAN IT USED TO BE COPPER, BUT NOW THEN COKE AND EVERYBODY'S SUPPLYING THOSE BRAIDED LINES.
ARE WE UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT THERE'S NEVER GONNA BE COPPER IN THAT CARBONATED LINE? WE COULD ALWAYS ASSUME
SO HAS THEN WE'RE WE'RE SAYING THAT T C E Q HAS ALSO LOWERED THE HAZARD OF CARBONATED DISPENSERS.
IS THAT WHAT WE'RE GONNA CHECK INTO? YES.
SO WHAT NUMBER DID WE MAKE IT TO IN THE RUN? BECAUSE IT'S ALSO THE EQUIPMENT GEORGE, UH, THAT, THAT'S GOING TO, WE MADE, WE MADE IT THROUGH 22.
I'D LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE ACCEPT ALL THE AMENDMENTS THROUGH 22 UNLESS THEY WERE TABLED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.
ANY SECOND, SHALL WE UH, THIS OPEN THE FLOOR FOR DONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICE? JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, WE SHOULD LINE ITEM THOSE TABLED ONES AND WE'LL MAKE THAT MOTION.
UH, WE CAN HELP Y'ALL WITH THAT PROCESS, BUT WE'LL WANT TO STRIKE THE, OR MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE WELL-DEFINED IN THE MOTION.
THE, THE ONLY OTHER ONE I MIGHT SAY IS I DO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH MED GAS.
SO ITEM 68, DO WE WANT TO TRY THAT? THAT'LL PROBABLY BE WEEK THREE.
I'LL PROBABLY BE BACK FOR THAT ONE.
BUT THAT'S MED GAS AND VET CLINICS.
WELL IF YOU'D LIKE GO AHEAD AND BRING UP YOUR CONCERNS SO THEY CAN RESEARCH.
OH NO, IT WAS, IT WAS MAINLY OKAY.
WELL IF WE WANT TO, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOUR CONCERNS WITH THAT ONE WAS? I MEAN WE, WE'VE, WE'VE STRUGGLED DOING MEDICAL.
WE AT D O D A VET CLINIC IS A MEDICAL OCCUPANCY, SO WE HAD ALL SORTS OF FUN WITH IT TOO.
SO THAT'S WHY I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT YOUR, YOUR ISSUES AND WHAT THE DISCUSSION 'CAUSE IT DID SAY TO DISCUSS.
SO WE WANT TO HAVE THAT QUICK DISCUSSION IN THE NEXT
YEAH, I REMEMBER LAST TIME WE WENT THROUGH THIS, WE SPENT LIKE A LONG TIME ON THIS ONE.
I THINK IT KIND OF BOILED DOWN TO LAST TIME IT WAS THE ANIMALS AREN'T HUMANS OR SOMETHING OF THAT.
BUT WE'RE STILL, WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT.
SO WE NEED A MOTION TO APPROVE WHAT WE DID OR WE'RE GONNA DO THAT ALL AT THE END OF THE PROCESS.
WELL, LET ME SAY I CAN, I CAN SAY FOR THE RECORD WHICH ONES, UM, THAT WE HAVE TABLED AND WE'LL BRING BACK FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.
SO THAT'S THE ITEMS THAT WE'VE TABLED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION AT A FUTURE MEETING ARE ITEMS NUMBER 6, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, AND 14.
SO I'D LIKE YOUR APPROVAL, I'D LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE APPROVE EVERYTHING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF WHAT CRYSTAL READ OUT IS TABLED.
SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE BETWEEN A CERTAIN NUMBER 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T GET THROUGH ALL ITEM ONE THROUGH 22 EXCEPT FOR THE ONES THAT WERE TABLED THAT CRYSTAL JUST READ INTO THE RECORD.
[02:30:01]
IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH JEREMY? YES, THAT WORKS.UH, I'LL PUT OPEN A MEETING UP FOR A VOTE.
ALL IN FAVOR? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
SO THAT, THAT WILL CLEAR THAT WELL, UH, NO MORE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
UM, IF WE CAN GO TO THE LAST AND THEN JEREMY CAN YES SIR.
CAN WE GET A LIST? CAN YOU SEND A LIST TO THEM OF EVERYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE PULLED TO THE THIRD MEETING THAT YOU WANT TO BE HERE TO DISCUSS? BECAUSE I THINK WE CAN JUST GO AROUND THOSE.
THERE'S ONLY LIKE FIVE OR SIX.
YOU YOU WILL, YOU WILL ADVOCATE FOR ME IT SOUNDS LIKE.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS SOMEBODY TO ADVOCATE
AND, AND WE'LL BE RECORDING IT SO YOU CAN ALWAYS GO BACK AND WATCH THAT ONE IF YOU WOULD LIKE BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT I'M GONNA BE SITTING IN A FOREST SOMEWHERE I'LL
UH, JUST ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS, UH, I, I BRING
[ Director's Report ]
THIS UP, UH, EACH TIME FOR MORE FOR THOSE THAT ARE WATCHING THIS ONLINE OR RECORDING.UH, SO ALL THE CODE ADOPTION WEBSITE, WE HAVE THAT HERE.
UH, ANYBODY CAN GO TO THIS, THIS LINK CAN GET ALL THE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS PROCESS FOR NOT JUST THE PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE BUT ALL COMMITTEES AND THE FULL PROCESS OF GOING TO THE FULL PROCESS OF GOING TO THE FULL BOARD.
AND THEN CITY COUNCIL, UH, MEETING RECORDINGS ARE LOCATED AT THIS WEBSITE, SAN ANTONIO.GOV DSD BOARDS AND MEETINGS AND V VIDEOS.
AND FINALLY, ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO CITY STAFF THAT COULD BE RIGHT INTO THE RECORD OR PRESENTED TO THE TO THE VARIOUS COMMITTEES CAN EMAIL US AT B R F C A A B@SANANTONIO.GOV.
AND THAT CONCLUDES STAFF REPORT.
AND UH, IT SUMS UP THE MEETING H HANG ON BEFORE WE DO A COMPLET ADJOURNING.
'CAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE HERE NEXT WEEK TOO.
NOT 'CAUSE I'S NEXT WEDNESDAY, RIGHT? I'M NOT HERE WEDNESDAY NEXT.
UH, SO THE NEXT MEETING IS CURRENTLY SCHEDULED FOR FRIDAY AT 8:30 AM SO THAT'S FRIDAY THE, UH, 11TH.
YEAH, I WILL NOT, TWO OF US WILL NOT BE HERE.
SO CAN YOU STILL MAKE A QUORUM IF, UM, POTENTIALLY NOT, POTENTIALLY NOT.
UH, WE HAVE ONE OTHER, UH, IF, IF ROBERT JONES CAN MAKE IT, THEN WE'LL HAVE QUORUM WITH GEORGE AND OR, UH, SPENCER AND JOE LAOS.
UM, IF NOT, THEN WE MIGHT NEED TO PUSH AND, AND SQUEEZE IN ANOTHER THIRD MEETING IN SOME OTHER TIME.
SO LET ME REACH OUT TO THAT, UH, THE FIFTH COMMITTEE MEMBER AND SEE IF HE CAN MAKE A COMMITMENT TO BE HERE NEXT FRIDAY.
AND IF NOT THEN UH, YEAH, WE WILL BE SHORT AND THEN THE FOLLOWING WEEK I'M AVAILABLE WHENEVER YOU DON'T, SO OKAY.
THAT ALRIGHT? YEAH, WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT.
SO THE THIRD MEETING IS CURRENTLY SCHEDULED FOR, LET'S SEE, THAT IS MARCH 16TH AT 8:30 AM SO KIND OF WEDNESDAY, MARCH EIGHT, UH, SEVEN 16TH.
BUT YEAH, LEMME LOOK INTO MARCH 11TH AT 8:30 AM CURRENTLY, THAT IS THE SCHEDULED TIME FOR IT AND I'LL SEE, UH, IF WE CAN MEET QUORUM OR NOT AND THEN GO FROM THERE.
WELL CALL AN ADJOURNMENT TO THE MEETING.