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[ Roll Call ]
IS JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEAL AND ADVISORY BOARD ELECTRICAL CODE COMMITTEE MEETING.
THIS IS THE FIRST MEETING OF THREE SCHEDULED.
WE'LL START OFF WITH OUR INTERPRETATION VIDEO.
UH, NEXT WE'LL MOVE INTO A ROLL CALL.
PRESENT LIDDEL TOY PRESENT, PETE LEY.
AND WE ALSO HAVE BOARD MEMBERS THAT AREN'T OF CURRENTLY ON THE COMMITTEE THAT ARE SITTING RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE QUORUM, UH, FOR RECORD KEEPING.
I WANT TO NOTE WE HAVE BOTH EDWARD DEL TORO AND GARY KOONTZ HERE PRESENT.
SO ANY TIME WE TAKE A VOTE OF CONSENT THAT THAT ISN'T A ROLL CALL, THE VOTE WOULD GO TOWARDS EDWARD.
HE CAN DISCUSS, HAVE ANY OPEN CONVERSATION, BUT THE VOTE WILL GO TOWARDS EDWARD AS LONG AS HE'S HERE.
CURRENTLY, MIKE RUST AND MARK ROSS ARE NOT CURRENTLY ON THE COMMITTEE.
SO THEY, UH, NO VOTE WOULD GO TO THEM AT THIS TIME.
BUT WE DO HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM.
IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO BE ADDED TO THE COMMITTEE, UH, WE CAN ADD THEM AT THAT TIME.
WE DIDN'T GET ANY BEFORE THE MEETING.
WE DO HAVE SOME MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC.
I'LL SEE IF THEY WANT TO HAVE ANY COMMENTS AT THIS TIME, BUT, OKAY.
CURRENTLY, NO PUBLIC COMMENTS, BUT THEY ARE HERE.
I KINDA LET 'EM KNOW WHOEVER IS CHAIR, AS WE'RE HAVING A DISCUSSION, IF THEY HAVE ANY POINTS THAT THEY'D LIKE TO DISCUSS DURING ANY ITEM THAT IS ON THE BOARD DURING DISCUSSION, KIND OF MAYBE GET THE CHAIR'S ATTENTION, BRING 'EM UP AND THEY CAN HAVE IT, UH, ADD TO THAT CONVERSATION AS WELL.
[ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items ]
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE IS TO VOTE TO APPOINT A COMMITTEE CHAIR AND CO-CHAIR.I'LL KIND OF HELP FACILITATE THAT UNTIL WE HAVE A CHAIR.
UM, RON CMIS, I WOULD VOLUNTEER TO CHAIR.
I'VE DONE DONE IT IN THE PAST, AND HAPPY TO DO IT AGAIN UNLESS SOMEBODY JUST ABSOLUTELY HAS IT ON THEIR HEART TO DO IT.
WELL, ACTUALLY, I WOULD NEED A MOTION ON THAT ONE.
UH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT, UH, RON CMIS IS THE CHAIRMAN FOR THIS COMMITTEE.
LIDDEL TOY, UH, MAKES THE MOTION.
IF YOU'LL TAKE OVER FROM HERE FOR THE CO-CHAIR VOTE.
OUR SECOND, UH, PIECE OF BUSINESS IS TO ELECT, UH, CO-CHAIR.
DO WE HAVE ANY VOLUNTEERS? NO.
WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO NOMINATE BALL AND TOLD SOMEONE I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE MARK BEUS.
WE HAVE A NOMINATION FOR MARK BEUS.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT NOMINATION.
I HAVE THE DELOY MAKING THE MOTION.
AND, UH, LON MAKING THE SECOND.
GUYS, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE WITH THOSE IN FAVOR, VOTE.
OPPOSED? I BELIEVE WE HAVE A CO-CHAIR.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO IS AT THIS TIME, IF THERE'S ANYBODY YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THE COMMITTEE, UM, ANYWHERE THAT'S CURRENTLY PRESENT OR ANY ON THE BOARD.
OH, I MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, NOMINATE MARK ROSS.
MARK, MARK ROSS AS AN AL, UH, PRIMARY.
AND, UM, MIKE ROSS AS THE, UH, ALTERNATE.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I JUST, I SECOND.
I HAVE LALOY WITH THE MOTION AND EDWARD WITH A SECOND.
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ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.DO WE HAVE A VOTE? ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
OPPOSED? WE HAVE A CO-CHAIR OR WE HAVE A ACCEPTANCE OF ADDITIONAL MEMBERS, RATHER.
I KNOW I DID A ROLL CALL BEFORE.
JUST FOR THE RECORD, NOW THAT YOU'RE MEMBERS, UH, MIKE RUST, MARK ROSS.
SO WE CURRENTLY HAVE, UH, FIVE COMMITTEE MEMBERS HERE THAT ARE ON THE PRIMARY TWO THAT ARE ALTERNATES.
UH, ANY OPEN VOTES WOULD GO TO THE PRIMARIES.
UH, AGENDA NINE THREE IS WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT.
SO, DISCUSSION OF THE 2020 NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE AND PROPOSED CHANGES TO CURRENT AMENDMENTS THAT WOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE FULL BOARD.
ALRIGHT, GOOD AFTERNOON, YOU GUYS.
UH, CRYSTAL GONZALEZ, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OVER PLAN REVIEW DIVISION.
UM, I'LL BE YOUR MC FOR THE DAY, BUT WE HAVE VALERIE GLEASON, CHIEF ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR ON THE LINE.
SO SHE'S OUR SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT FOR THE CITY.
UM, YOU GUYS SHOULD ALL HAVE A SPREADSHEET.
SO WE'VE IDENTIFIED CURRENT CITY AMENDMENTS, SO YOU'LL SEE THAT, UM, ON THE RECOMMENDATION, YOU'LL SEE PROPOSED AMENDMENT OR KEEP AMENDMENT, THAT'S STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, A SUMMARY OF THE CHANGES.
UM, AND THEN WE CAN IDENTIFY EACH OF THESE BY THE NUMBER TO THE FAR LEFT THERE.
UH, WE'VE INCLUDED THE SECTION NUMBER AND TITLE AS WELL.
UH, RON, I KNOW THAT YOU HAD SENT IN SOME RECOMMENDATIONS, SO I'VE INCLUDED THOSE IN THE SECTIONS.
UH, I PUT YOUR INITIALS BY THOSE.
AND JUST TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW, WE'LL GO THROUGH THOROUGHLY OUR CURRENT CHAPTER 10 AMENDMENTS AND UPDATE THOSE WITH ANY, ANY, UM, EDITORIAL, ANY REVISED LANGUAGE OR MAYBE SECTION NUMBERS HAVE CHANGED IN THE 2020.
UM, SO WE DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH THOSE CHANGES SPECIFICALLY.
WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE CHANGE ALL THE 2017 REFERENCES TO 2020.
UM, AND AGAIN, WE'LL VERIFY, UH, BEFORE FINAL PRINT THAT WE'VE UPDATED ALL LANGUAGE TO MATCH, UH, THE 2020 LANGUAGE AND SECTION NUMBERS.
THEN WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.
VALERIE, CAN YOU HEAR US OKAY? YES, I CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE.
THE FIRST ITEM, UM, SECTION OR ARTICLE, SORRY, I USE THEM INTERCHANGEABLY HERE.
SO WE'RE PROPOSING STAFF IS PROPOSING TO ADOPT THESE AS WRITTEN NEW SECTIONS THAT CLARIFY THAT SHORE POWER AND EXPORT POWER FROM ELECTRICAL VEHICLES IS COVERED BY THE N E C.
SO THIS IS NEW SECTION, UM, NEW ITEMS, UH, TO THE N E C.
SO WE CAN, UM, AS WE PREVIOUSLY HAVE DONE, WE CAN GO THROUGH ALL THE CHANGES AND YOU GUYS CAN MAKE A MOTION AT THE END TO, UM, ACCEPT, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION, UM, AS PRESENTED BY STAFF.
UH, SO AS WE GO THROUGH EACH ONE, WE'LL JUST MAKE A CHECK IF A RECOMMENDATION'S BEEN APPROVED BY, UM, HEAD NODS AND THUMBS UP, OR, UH, HOWEVER YOU GUYS WANNA DO IT.
AND, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, WHEN WE'VE DONE THIS BEFORE, IF THERE'S ANY ITEMS AS WE GO DOWN THE LIST THAT AS A GROUP WE FEEL WE NEED TO TABLE THAT FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION OR EVALUATION, THEN WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT AS WELL.
YES, WE HAVE FOUND ON SOME THAT, UH, WE DID A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH AND BROUGHT BACK SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
UM, AND VICE VERSA, IF YOU GUYS WANNA MORE TIME TO LOOK INTO SOMETHING, UM, A CHANGE OR THE IMPACT OF THE CHANGE.
SO ITEM NUMBER ONE, ADOPT IS WRITTEN.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, STARTING OFF WITH AN EASY ONE.
I I THINK WE'RE GOOD TO GO WITH THAT.
THE NEXT COUPLE, UM, 2, 3, 4, 5 ARE DEFINITIONS.
SO WE HAVE, UM, ON NUMBER TWO FOR, OH, SORRY, NUMBER TWO.
UM, SO THE 2020 N E C HAS SPECIFIC DEFINITIONS FOR THOSE ARTICLES, UM, UNDER THOSE ARTICLES.
SO WE HAVEN'T LISTED ALL OF THE DEFINITIONS PER ARTICLE.
JUST MADE A NOTE HERE, UM, THAT, THAT THE N E C HAS MADE A MODIFICATION AND INCLUDED DEFINITIONS THROUGHOUT THE ARTICLES.
AND JUST, JUST, JUST AS A REMINDER, UM, THE WAY THE N E C IS STRUCTURED, IF A DEFINITION SHOWS UP IN ARTICLE 100, IT'S A DEFINITION THAT GENERALLY APPLIES TO MORE THAN ONE ARTICLE WITHIN THE N E C IF IT'S FOUND WITHIN A SINGLE ARTICLE.
THAT'S BECAUSE THAT DEFINITION IS SPECIFIC TO THAT ARTICLE IN COMPLIANCE WITH N E C STYLE MANUAL.
THE 0.2 IS WHERE THE DEFINITIONS WILL RESIDE.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT THE, UH, MINOR CHANGE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SUMMARY, REFERS TO AND GOES ON TO,
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TO ALSO CAPTURE PART THREE CONTAINS THE DEFINITIONS APPLICABLE TO THE HAZARDOUS LOCATIONS.UH, THE DEFINITION OF DORMITORY UNIT IS NEW.
UM, AND THAT IDENTIFIES A DORMITORY UNIT AS GROUP SLEEPING FOR MORE THAN 16 PERSONS.
WE PROPOSE TO ADOPT AS WRITTEN.
THE NEXT ONE, DWELLING UNIT, UM, PROPOSED AMENDMENT HERE, UM, FOR DWELLING UNIT.
VALERIE, DO YOU WANNA TOUCH ON THAT ONE? CERTAINLY.
AND I THINK AS CRYSTAL HAD DISCUSSED THAT, UH, MAYBE THIS DOESN'T REALLY FIT DWELLING UNIT SO MUCH AS IT DOES HABITABLE ROOM.
I THINK WHAT I WAS KIND OF LOOKING AT WAS FREESTANDING STRUCTURES, UM, SUCH AS
UM, SO THAT WE COULD TRY TO IDENTIFY THOSE FOR THE RESIDENTIAL PROTECTION.
I'M SORRY, AM I GIVING SOME BACK FEED? UH, NO, WE HEAR YOU VERY WELL.
UM, A TINY BIT BREAKING UP EVERY, EVERY FEW WORDS, BUT WE HEAR YOU.
SO THERE IS A NEW DEFINITION FOR HABITABLE STRUCTURE TO IDENTIFY AS MM-HMM.
RIGHT?
MAYBE WE COULD HAVE, UM, SOME TRY TO ENFORCE ARC FAULT PROTECTION, G F C I PROTECTION, THINGS LIKE, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING UP A NUMBER OF THESE, ESPECIALLY SINCE COVID HAS COME INTO PLAY.
COULD YOU JUST PUT LIKE AN OUT OUTBUILDING? PROBABLY, UH, I THINK WE BY THESE THAT, UH, THAT THESE ARE IN MAYBE RESIDENTIAL YARDS OR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES THAT ARE HABITABLE.
AND AGAIN, I I, I BELIEVE IT
YEAH, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
BECAUSE ONCE YOU START GETTING IN, ONCE YOU START GETTING IN INTO, UH, DWELLING UNIT INHABITABLE, YOU NEED TO BE CONCERNED THAT YOU'RE BY ONE AREA OF THE CODE, YOU'RE CREATING A DEFINITION THAT TRIGGERS SMOKE DETECTORS AND ALL THAT STUFF THAT NEED TO BE IN IT.
UHHUH
AND SO, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY A SHE SHACK IS NOT MEANT TO BE A PERMANENT SLEEPING AREA, WHICH REQUIRES A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE TO BE IN IT.
IT, THE U D C IS ADDRESSING THE ACCESSORY, LIKE THE GRANNY FLATS.
I MEAN, DO WE NEED TO USE THE DEFINITION THAT THEY'RE USING WHEN THEY AUTHORIZE THESE? 'CAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO PERMIT, HOW, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE ADDRESS THIS? RIGHT? SO I JUST THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT THE TERMINOLOGY IS THAT WE USE.
SO WE WOULD CONSIDER LIKE A GRANNY FAT FLAT, A DWELLING UNIT.
UM, I MEAN, IF THAT'S WHAT IT'S INTENDED FOR, IF IT HAS A LIVING, SLEEPING, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT JUST AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, THEN YOU'RE RIGHT, MIKE, IT MAY NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN 300 SQUARE FEET.
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT FREESTANDING HABIT, HABITABLE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS DEFINED ANY, ANYWHERE I SEE A HABIT, HABITABLE ROOM, UM MM-HMM.
BUT I JUST THINK WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DEFINITIONS ARE CONSISTENT ACROSS BOTH THE ZONING AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, THE ICOS CERTAINLY.
SO NOT PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT FOR DWELLING UNIT, BUT POSSIBLY ADD A BRAND NEW DEFINITION.
OUTBUILDING, OR WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WITHOUT AN AMENDMENT, IF I BUILT A, WHAT WE, BUT IT'S COMMONLY REFERRED TO AS A GRANNY FLAT IN THE BACKYARD OF A HOUSE, WOULD I CURRENT, WOULD IT CURRENTLY FALL UNDER ANY OF THE CURRENT CODES WITHOUT IT AMENDING A DEFINITION? YOU KNOW, IF I WAS TO BUILD A NEW STRUCTURE, I HAD A BIG SHED THAT I WANTED TO TURN INTO A HABITABLE, YOU KNOW, SPACE TURNED INTO A GRANNY FLAT AND I WANTED TO PUT A METER ON IT, ET CETERA, WOULDN'T THAT ALREADY TRIGGER AN INSPECTION REGIME TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM? THAT WOULD BE HABITABLE ROOM.
WOULDN'T IT BE, BECAUSE PART OF THE IDEA OF THE GRANNY FLATS
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IS THAT IT'S AN EXTRA HOUSING UNIT, RIGHT? SO THAT IT, IT CAN BE, YOU KNOW, NOT, IT'S NOT THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THAT, THE MAIN HOUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE RENTING IT OUT TO SOMEBODY, ET CETERA.I THINK ONE, ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IS THAT WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT, UH, WHAT WE'RE, LOOK, WHAT WE'RE EVALUATING HERE IS THIS IS SIMPLY A DEFINITION, RIGHT? SO THEN WE START TRYING TO APPLY OTHER ARTICLES AT N E C BASED ON THIS DEFINITION, AND YOU HAVE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS THAT FALL INTO DWELLING UNIT.
THERE'S NOT NEAR AS MANY REQUIREMENTS THAT FALL INTO HABITABLE ROOM.
RIGHT? SO WHEN YOU START TRYING TO THEN ENFORCE CODE IN RELATION TO THIS GRANNY FLAT EXAMPLE THAT WE'RE USING, IF, YOU KNOW, SAY FOR EXAMPLE, DWELLING UNIT, IT DOESN'T SAY, YOU KNOW, IF IT HAS ONE OR MORE PERSONS OR ONE OR MORE OF THESE RATHER, ONE OR MORE OF THESE ENVIRONMENTS, LIVING, SLEEPING, COOKING, SANITATION.
SO IF I LEAVE COOKING OFF NOW, IT'S NO LONGER A DWELLING UNIT.
IF I LEAVE SANITATION OFF, IT'S NO LONGER A DWELLING UNIT, BUT IT'S STILL BEING UTILIZED IN SUCH A WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE IN, ARE OCCUPYING THE SPACE AND NEED TO BE APPROPRIATELY PROTECTED.
I DON'T KNOW, VALERIE, IF I'M CATCHING, UH, WHAT YOUR CONCERNS ARE OR IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT.
UH, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS SHOOTING FOR IS, AS YOU SAID, EVEN THE GRANNY FLATS, BECAUSE IT'S, MANY OF THOSE DO NOT HAVE PERMANENT PROVISIONS FOR COOKING, OR IN A SENSE, NOT CONSIDERED A DWELLING UNIT.
UH, WE ACTUALLY DID RUN INTO THAT, UH, THIS PAST FEW MONTHS AGO WHERE WE COULD NOT ENFORCE WALL SPACING.
WE COULDN'T ENFORCE OUR FAULT PROTECTION, UM, OR CIRCUITING, ESSENTIALLY, WHAT WAS IT SOMEPLACE WHERE SOMEONE LIVED AND SLEPT, BUT WOULDN'T IT BE COVERED UNDER HABITABLE ROOM? SO EVEN IF IT'S NOT IN A DWELLING UNIT, BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE HERE IS THE WORD OR MM-HMM.
SO ANY ROOM THAT'S USED FOR, I, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THAT LENDS ITSELF TO A DWELLING UNIT MYSELF.
I THINK IT'S JUST, MAYBE I'M NOT READING IT THAT THEY, WELL, NOWHERE IN THE HABITABLE ROOM DOES IT MENTIONED DWELLING UNIT.
ROOM IN A BUILDING IS USED, LIVING, SLEEPING, EATING, OR COOKING, BUT EXCLUDING BATHROOMS, TOILET ROOMS, CLOSETS, HALLWAYS, STORAGE AND UTILITY SPACES IN SIMILAR AREAS.
SO, SO EVEN A BUILDING WITHIN A COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT IS USED, IF YOU HAD A BREAK ROOM THAT WAS FOR SOMEBODY TO SLEEP IN OVERNIGHT, THEY WOULD'VE BE A HABITABLE ROOM.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR VALERIE.
UM, SO ARE YOU, ARE YOU WANTING THESE, UH, SEPARATE, UM, SMALL BUILDINGS TO BE SPECIFICALLY UNDER THE DWELLING UNIT BECAUSE IT'S UNDER THE DWELLING UNIT REQUIREMENTS, UM, WHERE THE, UH, ARC FAULT RECEPTACLES AND SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE LOCATED IN THE CODE? I, I THINK THAT WAS MY INITIAL, UH, INTENT.
UH, THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT DWELLING UNIT AND SO MANY OTHER CODES AND THINGS THAT WE, WE SUPPORT AND ENFORCE IT CAN AFFECT THE DEFINITION OF DWELLING UNIT AND, AND THOSE CODES AND THOSE DOCUMENTS AS WELL.
AND, UH, I DON'T, I JUST WANNA FIGURE TO ENFORCE SOME OF THIS, RE THESE REQUIREMENTS UNDER HABITABLE ROOM OR IF WE CAN, UH, I SAID I, I HAD AN INSPECTOR THAT TRIED REQUIREMENTS AND WAS NOT ABLE TO, SO YEAH, I, I THINK AN EXAMPLE I WOULD POINT TO IS IF YOU LOOK AT ARTICLE TWO, 10 POINT 12 ARC ARC FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER PROTECTION, AND IT SPECIFICALLY LISTS DWELLING UNITS, DORMITORIES, GUEST ROOMS, GUEST SUITES, PATIENT SLEEPING ROOMS, NURSING HOMES, LIMITED CARE FACILITIES, BRANCH CIRCUIT EXTENSIONS, OR MODIFICATIONS FOR DWELLING UNITS, ET CETERA.
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TO APPLY THE HABITABLE ROOM, THEN AULT PROTECTION IS NOT REQUIRED BECAUSE IT'S NOT LISTED IN THE, IN THE ARTICLE TWO 10.AND I BELIEVE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS, IS USE A, A, THE DEFINITION THAT WE HAVE DWELLING UNIT, BECAUSE IT IS APPROPRIATELY REFERENCED THROUGHOUT THE CODE IN VARIOUS ARTICLES MM-HMM.
SO IT'S BEING ABLE TO INCLUDE THESE TYPES OF FACILITIES THAT MAY EXCLUDE ONE OF THOSE ITEMS THAT WOULD TYPICALLY CLASSIFIED AS A DWELLING UNIT, BUT STILL GET THE SAME PROTECTION REQUIREMENTS.
WELL, RON COULD THEN, WE, SO THIS, UM, THIS ARTICLE, YOU KNOW, A IS SPECIFICALLY FOR DWELLING UNITS.
COULD WE ADD A, UM, AN AMENDMENT AT THIS LOCATION TO REQUIRE THE SAME FOR THOSE HABITABLE SPACES THAT WE'RE INTENDING THOSE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES HERE, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO MODIFY THE DEFINITION, JUST ADD THE REQUIREMENT FOR A A FAULT HERE.
SO IF YOU HAD A SLEEPING AREA IN A SLEEP CLINIC, WOULD THEY WOULD BE A HABITABLE ROOM BECAUSE IT'S SLEEPING OCCURS IN THAT ROOM.
DO WE WANT TO TIE ALL THOSE IN? OR CAN WE JUST SAY THAT ADD A LITTLE THING THAT SAYING ACCESSORY BUILDINGS THAT ARE USED FOR SLEEPING THAT ARE LOCATED IN A RE YOU KNOW, TO A DWELLING UNIT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A DWELLING UNIT FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE COAT.
WHERE, WHERE IT BASICALLY JUST NARROW NARROWS WHAT IT, WHAT, TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WANT, BUT NOT DRAGGING IN ANYTHING THAT, BECAUSE HABITABLE ROOM IS A BIG DEAL BECAUSE IT INCLUDES A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER STUFF.
I THINK THIS IS GOOD DISCUSSION.
MAYBE WE CAN, I'M SORRY, VALERIE, DID I CUT YOU OFF? NOT AT ALL.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, UM, MAYBE WE CAN TABLE THIS, UM, TILL NEXT MEETING AND BRING SOMETHING, UH, BACK TO YOU GUYS, WHETHER IT'S A REVISED DEFINITION, UM, OR REVISED REQUIREMENTS FOR THOSE FREE STANDING ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
MAYBE WE DON'T CALL 'EM HABITABLE ROOMS. MAYBE WE, WE HAVE, UH, MAYBE A NEW DEFINITION AND THEN THE REQUIREMENTS.
WELL, I, I THINK YOU NEED TO, I THINK YOU, BY ADDING IT TO THE DEFINITION, IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD BECAUSE EVERYWHERE IN THE CODE.
SO I THINK YOU NEED TO ADD IT WITHIN THE DWELLING UNIT DEFINITION THAT SAYS WHATEVER THE CITY DEFINITION OF THOSE BUILDINGS, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, FALLS INTO THAT DWELLING UNIT CATEGORY.
BECAUSE THEN EVERYTHING THAT APPLIES TO THE DWELLING UNIT WOULD APPLY TO THAT CATEGORY.
SO, YOU KNOW, MY, MY THOUGHT IS, IS AS WE TAKE THE DWELLING UNIT DEFINITION, I BELIEVE TO YOUR POINT, AND SIMPLY ADD TO INCLUDE FREESTANDING HABITABLE ACCESSORIES STRUCTURES AT DWELLINGS, PERIOD, AND THEN ALL THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE LISTED THERE WILL FALL THROUGHOUT THE, THE N E C AND, AND THE APPROPRIATE ARTICLES.
IS, IS THAT HOW IT IS, UH, CURRENTLY WRITTEN? IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'RE READING HERE? WELL, THAT, YEAH.
AT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF, IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, THE DEFINITION IN THE ARTICLE, IT READS A SINGLE UNIT, A SINGLE UNIT PROVIDING COMPLETE AND INDEPENDENT LIVING FACILITIES FOR ONE OR MORE PERSONS, INCLUDING PERMANENT PROVISIONS FOR LIVING, SLEEPING, COOKING, AND SANITATION.
THEN TO THAT DEFINITION, WE WOULD, WOULD ADD TO INCLUDE FREESTANDING, HABITABLE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES AT DWELLINGS.
AND I CERTAINLY HAVE NO, NO VERSION TO, TO TABLING THIS AND GIVING US A CHANCE TO DIGEST.
WELL, LEMME ASK, LEMME ASK, WHAT, WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD IT MAKE IF YOU JUST CHANGED THE WORD AND TO, OR AT THE END, WHICH, AND ARE WE CHANGING IN DWELLING UNIT? IN DWELLING UNIT, IF YOU CHANGE THE AND TO AN OR AT THE END.
SO IT'S NOT ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE OUT ANY ONE OF THOSE THINGS, YOU'RE NO LONGER A DWELLING UNIT.
SO IF IT'S, IF IT'S AN OR, THEN YOU'RE NOT A DWELLING UNIT.
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UM, SANITATION A POOL HOUSE OR, YOU KNOW, THEN THAT'S NOT A DWELLING UNIT.IT HAS TO HAVE ALL OF THOSE THINGS TO BE QUALIFIED TO QUALIFY AS A DWELLING UNIT.
LIKE, LIKE IF I TOOK MY GARAGE, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S DETACHED FROM MY HOUSE.
IF I PUT A, IF YOU PUT AND I STICK A RESTROOM IN THAT GARAGE, NOW IT'S A DWELLING UNIT.
SO I LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE ADOPT THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS PROPOSED.
SO THIS, THIS IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN AS WRITTEN.
UM, ACTUALLY NO, IT WOULD BE, YES.
BASICALLY IT WOULD BE SHORTER.
WE WOULD, WE WOULD TAKE THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO INCLUDE FREESTANDING HABITABLE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES AT DWELLINGS, PERIOD.
VALERIE, ARE YOU GOOD WITH THAT? YES.
I THINK THAT TAKES US IN THE DIRECTION I WAS HOPING TO GO.
I THINK IT GOES, LISTEN, I REALLY WANNA BEAT THIS TO DEATH.
BUT I KNOW SO EARLY IN, I, I'M CONCERNED THAT WE JUST CREATED A, A FREESTANDING HABITABLE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT DEFINES THAT ANYWHERE? I MEAN, I KNOW WE ALL KNOW THAT THE INTENT, I THINK WE ALL AGREE, AGREE WITH THE INTENT, BUT I'M JUST STILL CONCERNED THAT WE'VE DEFINED A TERM THAT DOESN'T EXIST.
SO, ANYWAY, JUST TO FOREVER, ANYBODY TO TAKE THAT BACK AND DO WHAT YOU WILL WITH IT, AND THEN I'LL LEAVE IT BE, THANK YOU.
SO WE'LL SEE IF, IF ANY OF THE OTHER CODES OR U D C HAS A DEFINITION, UM, OR WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, WEBSTER'S DIC DICTIONARY WOULD SAY FOR, FOR THAT DEFINITION.
SO PROPOSED AMENDMENT FOR NUMBER FOUR, DWELLING UNIT.
WE WERE, WE'VE REVISED THE LANGUAGE, UM, ON THE SCREEN THERE, UM, TO SHORTEN IT FROM WHAT WE ORIGINALLY PROPOSED.
UM, AND THEN WE'RE GOOD WITH HABITABLE ROOM, KEEPING THAT NEW DEFINITION AS WRITTEN.
THE NEXT ONE, NUMBER SIX, A NEW DEFINITION FOR INTERACTIVE INVERTER.
SO THE DEFINITION WAS MODIFIED TO CLARIFY THAT SUCH CAN EXPORT TO UTILITY AS WELL AS UTILIZATION EQUIPMENT.
SO DO WE KNOW IF WE'VE RECEIVED ANY INPUT ON THIS ONE FROM C P S ENERGY? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
VALERIE, HAVE YOU HAD ANYBODY CONTACT YOU? NO, NO.
I REACHED OUT TO, UH,
I DO KNOW THAT WITH A COUPLE OF CERTAIN CERTAIN FACILITIES IN SAN ANTONIO, THEY DID ALLOW PARALLEL OPERATION, BUT IT IS, UM, IT IS A RESTRICTED THERE IN THEIR ORDINANCE.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF, IF THIS SHOULD MAYBE WAIT UNTIL C P SS COMES IN TO ADVISE, UM, IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA.
CAN WE GET SOMEBODY JUST TO EXPLAIN WHAT PARALLEL, UH, WHAT THAT IS? JUST BRIEFLY IN, IN LIKE YEAH.
WELL, SO, SO, SO TWO PIECES TO THIS, TO AN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
I THINK THE FIRST PIECE IS TO REMEMBER, THIS IS JUST A DEFINITION.
SO AT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'RE SIMPLY DEFINING WHAT AN INTERACTIVE INVERTER IS HERE.
AS YOU START GOING THROUGH THE N E C LOOKING FOR INSTANCES WHERE THIS SHOWS UP, IT'S VERY MINIMAL.
BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, SO AN INACT INTERACTIVE INVERTER, UM, PROBABLY ABOUT THE BEST EXAMPLE I COULD, I COULD USE WOULD BE SOLAR, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE AN INVERTER THAT TAKES THE DC, TAKES IT TO AC, AND THEN INTERFACES WITH THE SYSTEM WITHIN THE HOME, RIGHT? IT'S GONNA PARALLEL WITH UTILITY, RIGHT? SO THEY'RE GONNA BE IN SYNC AND THEY'RE GONNA PARALLEL.
THAT'S THE WAY, THAT'S THE WAY THE INVERTERS WORK, UM, MM-HMM.
AND SO IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE, HAVE THEIR INPUT ON THIS.
BUT AGAIN, FOR THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, IT'S SIMPLY A DEFINITION.
IT'S NOT CREATING DEFINITIONS, REQUIREMENTS.
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DO WE NEED TO WAIT ON, ON A RESPONSE FROM C P S ON THIS ONE? FOR THE DEFINITION OR, YEAH, I THINK I, YEAH, LET'S TABLE THIS TOO.WE CAN GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM THEM.
THE NEXT ITEM, ARTICLE 1 10 14 FOR ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS.
THIS WAS A MINOR DELETIONS, SO IT REMOVES COPPER AND COPPER CLOUD ALUMINUM AS DISSIMILAR METALS, SMALL CHANGE.
BUT WE JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT UP.
EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT? ADOPT AS WRITTEN.
WE PROPOSE TO ADOPT THIS CHANGE AS WRITTEN.
YEAH, I THINK WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT ONE.
NEXT ITEM, ARTICLE ONE, 10 POINT 32.
WE'RE PROPOSING TO ADOPT THIS CHANGE TO THE WORKSPACE ABOUT EQUIPMENT AS WRITTEN.
YOU GUYS GOOD? ARE WE GOING TOO FAST? WE'RE GOOD.
ARE Y'ALL READING AHEAD? THE NEXT ONE IS AN EXISTING CSSA AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE 200.6 A AND B.
OUR PROPOSAL IS TO KEEP THE, OH, THIS IS, UM, THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO TALK ABOUT HOUSE BILL THAT WAS ADOPTED IN 2019 THAT PROHIBITS JURISDICTIONS FROM, UM, ELIMINATING THE USE OF, UH, MATERIALS WHEN THEY'RE ALLOWED BY THE MODEL CODES.
SAY THAT AGAIN? WE CAN'T MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO STRIKE ANY USE OF MATERIALS OR SIZES OF MATERIALS IF THE MODEL CODE PERMITS IT.
SO THIS, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
SO WHAT IS CREATING THE CONCERN? WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE CONCERN? YEAH.
WHAT, WHAT, WHY IS IT THAT WE CAN'T, IF IF IT SAYS ONE SIZE, WE CAN'T REQUIRE A DIFFERENT SIZE? SO, UH, IN 2019, WE HAD THE, UH, PASSAGE OF THAT HOUSE BILL, UM, 24 39.
AND, UH, BASICALLY IT'S, IT SAYS THAT, UM, CITIES, UH, CAN'T, UH, FOR, FOR CERTAIN COMPONENTS AND MATERIALS.
IF THE MODEL CODE ALLOWS IT, THE CITY HAS TO ALLOW IT, ESSENTIALLY.
BUT AS A PERSON THAT WAS IN, INVOLVED IN GETTING THAT LEGISLATION PASSED,
AND I WOULD JUST CHECK, BECAUSE I, MY RECOLLECTION IS SIZE OF MATERIAL WAS NOT COVERED IN THE BILL.
WE CAN, WE CAN GO BACK AND, AND VERIFY SPECIFICALLY SIZING.
UM, BUT THE INFORMATION WE RECEIVED, UH, SO FAR FROM, UM, OUTSIDE SOURCES, UH, DID SAY IT WAS PROBABLY INCLUDED.
I DON'T KNOW THAT ANY OF THE JURISDICTION HAS, HAS COME UP AGAINST IT SO FAR.
UH, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY GO BACK AND JUST, AND CHECK SPECIFICALLY ON, ON A, A SIZING COMPONENT.
I ISN'T THIS, UH, UM, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO CHANGE, UH, LESS RESTRICTIVE THAN WHAT IS IN THE N E C CODE CHANGE BY ALLOWING, UH, TO IDENTIFY CONDUCTORS RATHER THAN, UH, BUYING IT WITH THE COLORED INSTALLATION? IT'S, IT'S A LESS RESTRICTIVE.
SO FROM A, FROM A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, UM, COLORS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN READILY AVAILABLE
[00:35:01]
FROM 10 A W G AND SMALLER.IT'S WHEN YOU GET TO THE NUMBER EIGHT AND LARGER, WHERE WE STARTED RUNNING INTO ISSUES.
AND, AND I BELIEVE LEAST CORRECT ME IF I'M MISTAKEN, BUT I BELIEVE THAT'S WHY WE PUT THIS IN HERE, BECAUSE YOU COULD GET, YOU KNOW, 14, 12, 10 IN COLORS WITHOUT ANY ISSUES.
WHEN YOU GOT TO NUMBER EIGHT, YOU WERE PRETTY WELL RESTRICTED TO BLACK AS TIME HAS GONE ON.
AND AS WE'LL DISCUSS HERE IN A, IN A MOMENT ON, ON ANOTHER ISSUE, UH, THE COLORED CONDUCTORS HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE READILY AVAILABLE AND MORE CON, YOU KNOW, UH, ACROSS ALL MANUFACTURERS.
SO WE'RE NOT EVEN STUCK WITH ONE MANUFACTURER WHERE WE'RE CREATING AN ISSUE THERE.
UH, MUL MULTIPLE MANUFACTURERS ARE ABLE TO MAKE COLORED WIRES THROUGHOUT A SPECTRUM OF SIZES.
UM, SO, AND IF WE'VE GOT A SITUATION, WE'RE BASICALLY STATE LEGISLATURES TELLING US WE CANNOT DO THIS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF CHOICE, BUT TO ACCEPT IT THE WAY IT'S, YEAH, LIKE I SAID, WE'LL, WE'LL GO BACK AND LOOK SPECIFICALLY ON, ON SIZING AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY KIND OF, UH, UH, LEEWAY THERE.
AND THEN WHAT YOU ALSO COULD DO IS JUST BECAUSE THIS IS LESS RESTRICTIVE, YOU CAN JUST PUT EITHER OR, SO YOU CAN DO IT THE WAY THE CODE SAYS, OR THIS IS AN ALTERNATIVE AS AN EXCEPTION.
AND, AND AS, AND AS FAR AS THAT GOES, AS FAR AS USING COLORED WIRE OR USING BLACK AND PHASING AT THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN AN OPTION.
SO YEAH, YOU DON'T EVEN NEED IT AT THAT, AT THAT POINT.
IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE LIMITED ON WHAT WE CAN AND CANNOT DO, DOESN'T THIS REDUCE THE SIZE OF THE WIRE THAT YOU HAVE TO USE? NO.
BASICALLY, IF YOU GO TO THE STANDARD LANGUAGE, IT'S TELLING US THAT LARGER SIZES AND DOWN HAVE TO BE, HAVE TO BE COLORED.
AND WE'RE SAYING NO, THE SMALLER SIZES AND DOWN, SO THERE'S A GROUP ABOVE NUMBER 10, EIGHT AND SIX THAT, YOU KNOW, IN THE PAST WE'VE ALLOWED BLACK WITH PHASING TAPE, THE, THE GROUP THAT THIS IS PROBABLY GONNA BE THE GREATEST IMPACT TO IS ON RESIDENTIAL.
'CAUSE I BELIEVE THEY STILL PRETTY MUCH USE JUST BLACK AND, AND PHASE IT.
SO, CAN I SUGGEST WE TABLE THIS UNTIL WE GET THE INFORMATION BACK AS TO WHAT WE CAN DO? DID ALL RIGHT.
DO WE NEED TO DO ADDITIONAL RESEARCH OR, WE KNOW THAT'S WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS, THAT WE CANNOT MAKE A CHANGE
THAT'S THE INDICATION THAT WE'VE GOTTEN NOW, BUT, UM, I, I TRIED TO REACH OUT TO SOME OTHER JURISDICTIONS, HAVEN'T GOTTEN, UH, MUCH FEEDBACK, BUT, SO THAT, THAT PART OF IT, I CAN, I CAN KIND OF FOLLOW UP ON.
SO PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE FOR A MOMENT.
I'M CURIOUS IF WE DID IT ANYWAY, WHAT'S THE RAMIFICATIONS?
IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST NOT, YOU KNOW, VALID.
AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S SOME, THE PENALTY PROVISIONS, UM, ALLOW AN AGGRIEVED PARTY OR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL TO, YOU KNOW, PURSUE IT IN THE COURT SYSTEM.
BUT I WAS ALWAYS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT SAN ANTONIO, WELL, ANY CITY ENTITY WAS ALWAYS AUTHORITY ON THEIR OWN A H J.
AND THEN, SO IS THIS SUPER, THE, THE, THE STATE SUPERSEDES IT NOW ON, ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM? UH, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE STATE BASICALLY KIND OF, UM, CAN CLAW BACK ON JURISDICTION THAT THEY CAN, UH, YOU KNOW, IT, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT ADDRESSED IN THE STATE.
USUALLY HOME RULE CITIES HAVE HAVE THE ABILITY, BUT IF THE STATE, YOU KNOW, SAYS, NO, NOW WE'RE CHANGING AND WE'RE, AND WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOW THE STANDARD, THEN CITIES HAVE TO HAVE TO RESPECT THAT THERE, THERE'S SOME, YOU KNOW, EXCEPTIONS AND THINGS, BUT, UM, THAT'S ESSENTIALLY, ESSENTIALLY IT.
I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GONNA ENFORCE THAT SAME THING.
WELL, IT'S JUST VOID, SO THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.
SO, BUT I WOULD SUGGEST YOU REREAD WHAT THE BILL SAYS BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE INTENT OF THE BILL.
MAYBE WE CAN DEFINITELY CHECK IT IF IT'S SPECIFIC TO THE SIZE OF THE MATERIALS.
UM, SO DO YOU GUYS WANNA TABLE THIS OR PROCEED AS IN THE SIZE, UM, MAY BE EXEMPT FROM, FROM THE REQUIREMENT? I WOULD RECOMMEND WE TABLE IT, DO A LITTLE MORE, JUST DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE, MAKE MAKE SURE WE FULLY UNDERSTAND, UM, SHOULD, ONE THING I DO WANNA POINT OUT, SHOULD WE DETERMINE THAT WE CAN MAKE THIS CHANGE, THAT THERE IS SOME REVISED LANGUAGE THAT WE NEED TO CAPTURE AND PUT IN THE CITY ORDINANCE IN 200, I'LL USE AN EXAMPLE.
THE NEW LANGUAGE ADDS, THE INSULATED CONDUCTOR SHALL HAVE.
AND SO SINCE WE, WE, WE STATE THE LANGUAGE AND THEN MODIFY IT, WE NEED TO STATE THE LANGUAGE CORRECTLY.
IF, IF WE END UP GOING ROUTE, YES, WE'LL BE SURE TO GO, UM, AND MAKE SURE THAT WE UPDATE THE CHAPTER 10 AMENDMENTS FOR ANY
[00:40:01]
PROPOSED, UM, ANY, UH, REVISED LANGUAGE.SO IF THEY'VE ADDED THAT, WE'LL, UM, GO IN AND MAKE THOSE CHANGES.
SO WE'LL TABLE, UM, LINE ITEM 10.
SO THE NEXT ITEM IS CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE TWO, 10.5 C ONE.
VALERIE, YOU WANNA TOUCH ON THIS? AND I THINK, RON, YOU HAD, UH, SOME PROPOSED CHANGES FOR THE TABLE.
I, I GUESS THAT CONCERNED ME SOMEWHAT TOO, IN THAT WE DO HAVE SOME LOCAL REQUIREMENTS ON COLOR CODING.
A LOT OF THIS WAS, UH, EVEN IMPOSED BY C P SS ENERGY.
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE STATE LAW IS GONNA EVEN AFFECT IT.
WOULD THAT THE STATE LAW WOULD AFFECT THAT AFFECT COLOR CODING? WOULD IT, I MEAN, I KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO RESEARCH FURTHER ON THIS OTHER ONE FOR THAT ONE HAD TO DO WITH WIFI SIZES AS WELL.
I'M JUST A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED ABOUT IF WE CAN STILL CODING OR NOT.
ARE WE CHANGING, UH, WHAT THE MODEL CODE IS ALLOWING, OR WE'RE JUST MAKING IT SPECIFIC, SO, OKAY.
MAYBE I, DID WE, UH, ADDRESS TWO 10 POINT C 1 2, 10 0.5 C ONE? DID WE SAY WE'RE GONNA TABLE THAT ONE ALSO IDENTIFICATION OF UNGROUNDED CONDUCTORS? NO, I THINK WE'RE ON THAT ONE IN THE TABLE.
'CAUSE WE GOT THE, WE GOT THE IDENTIFICATION OF UNGROUNDED CONDUCTORS TWO POINT 10.5 C ONE ITEM NUMBER 11.
THEN ITEM 12 IS THE ACTUAL TABLE.
AND THEN I BELIEVE C TWO ACT FEEDERS.
C ONE I BELIEVE REFERS TO BRANCH CIRCUITS.
I NEGLECTED TO BRING MY CHAPTER 10 WITH ME.
THE CODE I THINK, DOESN'T REALLY HAVE COLOR CODING, CODING.
I THINK WE'RE ACTUALLY MORE SPECIFIC, UH, EXCEPT FOR CERTAIN INSTANCES SUCH AS THE NEUTRAL CONDUCTOR AND THE, THE ORANGE FOR A OLE, UH, GREEN FOR GROUNDING.
UH, I THINK WE'RE JUST MORE STRICT THAN THAT AS FAR AS WHAT WE REQUIRE.
BUT AGAIN, THE STATE LAW HAVE INPUT REGARDS TO THIS.
YEAH, NO, THE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE UNGROUNDED CONDUCTOR COLOR CODING STATE LAW IS, IS BROWN, ORANGE, AND YELLOW? UM MM-HMM.
THERE WAS, UH, WE ALLOWED FOR PUBLIC COMMENT TO COME IN AND, AND COMMENT ON IT.
AND WHEN, WHEN WE GOT READY TO VOTE, THE VOTE WAS PRETTY WELL SPLIT.
WE, AND SO WHAT WE ELECTED TO DO WAS GO AHEAD AND LEAVE IT AS IS AND REVISIT THIS CODE CYCLE.
SO MORE INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO CONSIDER AND, AND WEIGH IN IF THEY FELT IT WAS APPROPRIATE, THE MM-HMM.
WE DID LAST TIME SO THAT WE'D GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVISIT IT THIS TIME.
WHY WOULD YOU HAVE SOMETHING IF THE STATE CODE, STATE LAW, OR IS IT STATE LAW THAT SAYS THAT OR STATE CODE? THE, THE COLOR CODE THAT'S DIFFERENT.
SO, SO THE ADOPT, SO WHEN THE STATE ADOPTS THE N E C, THEY DO A SIMILAR PROCESS LIKE WE'RE DOING.
THEY GO THROUGH IT AND THEY EVALUATE, AND YOU, AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S EVEN ITEMS THAT THEY'VE TABLED THAT THEY SAID, NO, WE NEED TO PUT A PAUSE ON THIS, ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM.
SO THEY DO A SIMILAR EVALUATION.
BACK WHEN WE, AT ONE TIME, SAN ANTONIO WAS BROWN, ORANGE, YELLOW, THEN WE CAN CHANGE TO PURPLE, BROWN, YELLOW.
UM, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE REASONING BEHIND THAT WAS BECAUSE OF OLEG C P S NO LONGER INSTALLS OLEG.
SO IS THAT STILL A CONCERN? BUT WE'RE STARTING TO GET MORE MANUFACTURING FACILITIES IN TOWN TO WHERE THEY'RE BUYING PRE-MADE EQUIPMENT THAT COMES WITH CABLE BUNDLES THAT ATTACH TO THE EQUIPMENT.
THOSE CABLE BUNDLES ARE BROWN, ORANGE, AND YELLOW.
SO NOW WE END UP WITH A FACILITY THAT'S GOT BROWN, ORANGE, YELLOW, PURPLE, BROWN, YELLOW, AND PUTTING THIS, THIS CITY IN A, IN A POSITION OF EITHER ALLOWING IT A VARIANCE OR SOMETHING
[00:45:01]
ALONG THOSE LINES.SO MY, MY QUESTION TO STAFF IS, IS THIS PUTTING YOU IN A BAD POSITION BY HAVING IT KIND OF A DUAL COLOR CODE IN THOSE ENVIRONMENTS IS JUST SOMETHING WE EVEN NEED TO WORRY ABOUT MOVING FORWARD? SEE, AND THAT WAS THE ISSUE BACK LAST YEAR.
AND THEN WHEN C P S CAME IN, THEY, THEY HAD A FIT.
C CP S'S CONCERN WAS, IS, IS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO ASSIMILATE THIS INFORMATION OUT TO THEIR, TO THEIR TEAMS. THEY'RE JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CONTRACTOR, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, THE IRONY OF THAT STATEMENT IS THAT THEY MADE A SIMILAR ASSIMILATION OF INFORMATION BACK WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE CELL PHONES AND ALL THE MEDIA THAT WE'VE GOT TO CONVEY INFORMATION LIKE WE DO NOW.
SO IS IT A VALID CONCERN? ABSOLUTELY, IT IS.
BUT UM, YOU KNOW, WE SAID WE'D REVISIT IT, SO WE'RE REVISITING.
AND THEY WOULD ONLY APPLY TO THAT THIRD COLUMN, CORRECT.
SO THE, SO THE COLUMN RIGHT NOW IS A FACE PURPLE, B FACE, BROWN, C FACE, YELLOW.
SO A WOULD GO BACK, WOULD GO TO BROWN, AND B WOULD GO TO ORANGE, AND PURPLE WOULD GO AWAY.
SO INSTEAD OF P B Y, IT'D BE B O Y.
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO GET C P S INVOLVED IN, OR DO WE WANT TO EVEN DO THAT? VALERIE, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THIS ONE? UM, I, I, I DESCRIBING DID KIND OF RAISE, ITS ITS HEAD HERE RECENTLY IN THAT EQUIPMENT THAT WAS BROUGHT IN, UH, DID HAVE THE B O Y COLOR CODING.
UH, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A, A MANUFACTURED ASSEMBLY OR A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT.
WE CAN'T FORCE THEM TO MARK ANYTHING INSIDE OF IT.
UM, I, I KIND OF AGREE WITH RON SOMEWHAT IN THAT THE, UM, THE ORANGE IS NOT SUCH A, AN ISSUE AS IT USED TO BE, AND A LOT OF THE DELTA HIGHLIGHT SYSTEMS ARE GRADUALLY BEING REPLACED.
UM, I THINK THE ORANGE IS KIND OF HUNG AROUND BECAUSE THERE ARE STILL SOME SYSTEMS OUT THERE.
I DON'T HAVE ANY TRUE HEARTACHE OVER IT, TO BE HONEST.
IF IT WENT BACK TO B O Y, I REMEMBER DOING THAT.
UM, I, I JUST, AGAIN, IT'S C P S.
SO DO YOU GUYS WANT TO INVITE C P SS TO OUR NEXT MEETING TO TALK ABOUT THIS IN, IN DEPTH OR MOVE FORWARD WITH A RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMITTEE? I HAVE A QUESTION.
UM, SO, AND THE QUESTION IS THE CONCERN FOR, UM, EXISTING FACILITIES AND NOW PUTTING A NEW COLOR CODE AND THE INSPECTIONS AND THE ELECTRICIANS, AND TO ME, THE, THE FIRST STOP IN THAT WOULD BE, IT KIND OF MAKES A MESS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S NEW, WHAT'S EXISTING, IF I'M RE REUSING SOMETHING, DOES IT BECOME A PROBLEM FOR THE ELECTRICIAN WHERE THEY'RE JUST MADE TO DO EXTRA WORK? AND I'D JUST LIKE TO HEAR SOME OTHER, UH, DISCUSSION ON THAT.
I, I LIKE KEEPING IT THE SAME BECAUSE I THINK IT'S EASIER FOR THE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS.
UH, LON WE CURRENTLY HAVE A, A A, I GUESS YOU WOULD CALL IT AN EXCEPTION TO THAT AMENDMENT, THAT IF A BUILDING IS WIRED IN A CERTAIN COLOR CODING, YOU MAINTAIN THAT COLOR CODING.
UM, I, I GUESS I WOULD THINK IT WOULD REMAIN THAT WAY.
IF WE WENT TO B O Y, THEN THE BUR BUILDING THAT'S IN PURPLE, BROWN, YELLOW WOULD REMAIN PURPLE, BROWN, YELLOW, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
'CAUSE THE EXCEPTION WAS KIND OF PUT IN PLACE FOR WHEN WE WENT THE OTHER WAY, BUT IT WOULD APPLY IF WE WENT BACK.
UM, THE, THE OTHER THING TO KIND OF KEEP IN MIND IS, AS THE INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE IS WE'RE STRUGGLING FOR, UH, PERSONNEL AND FOLKS ARE MIGRATING IN MORE AND MORE INTO TEXAS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THE I 35 CORRIDOR, INCLUDING SAN ANTONIO IS ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING AREAS IN THE COUNTRY.
WE'RE GETTING ELECTRICIANS FROM OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT ARE USED TO THE BROWN, ORANGE, YELLOW, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO JUST KEEP IN THE BACK OF OUR MINDS AS WELL.
HEY, RON, FOR MY, MY 2 CENTS, YOU KNOW, UM, WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A GOOD IDEA, I'LL LEAVE TO THE PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
UM, IF CP S'S CONCERN IS THAT THEY HAVE TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE, I FIND THAT VERY UNCOMPELLING IF THEY HAVE A LEGITIMATE REASON, UH, TO OBJECT TO THIS.
UH, BUT OTHERWISE I'D SAY JUST LET'S JUST GO FORWARD.
I MEAN, EVERYBODY HAS TO TELL THEIR PEOPLE THINGS.
AND I, I DON'T THINK CCPS IS ANY MORE SPECIAL THAN ANYBODY ELSE WHEN IT COMES TO THAT.
I, I GUESS MY, MY ONLY, UH, RESERVATION IN THAT, IN THAT REGARD IS, IS MOVING, IS MOVING FORWARD VERSUS TABLING IS, UH,
[00:50:01]
C P SS HAD SOME VERY EMOTIONAL RESPONSE TO THIS THE LAST TIME.AND SO I THINK IT'S A, I THINK, I THINK IT'S A GOOD AND RIGHT THING TO INCLUDE THEM IN THE CONVERSATION.
THAT WAS A VERY GENEROUS WAY TO PUT IT.
RON, THAT WAS VERY NICE OF YOU.
I THINK YOU MIGHT FIND IT SOMEWHAT LESS
AND, UH, WHAT, WELL, I WON'T ELABORATE, BUT CHANGE OF STAFF.
YEAH, THERE'S AN, THERE'S AN OLD SAYING IT'S LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
IN THIS CASE IT MIGHT BE TIME, TIME AND TIMING.
SO ITEM 12, UH, WE'LL TABLE THAT AND, UM, MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE C P S AT THE NEXT NEXT MEETING.
OR IF IT'S MEETING NUMBER THREE, YOU KNOW, WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO ATTEND.
SO FOR ITEM 11, UM, WE'RE PROPOSING TO UPDATE THAT AMENDMENT JUST TO ADD NEW LANGUAGE IN THERE, VALERIE.
BUT WE'RE NOT PROPOSING ANY CHANGE TO THE INTENT OF THAT SECTION, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
I, I, WHEN GOING THROUGH A LOT OF THESE, I WAS JUST TRYING TO WATCH WHAT I WAS KEEPING TRACK OF WITH THE AMENDMENT.
SO NO REAL CHANGE TO THAT ONE OR, UM, C TWO.
WITH THOSE, ARE YOU GUYS READY FOR LINE ITEM 14? OKAY.
FOR ARTICLE TWO, 10.8, WE TO ADOPT THIS CHANGE AS WRITTEN, THAT EXTENDS THE G F C I PROTECTION AREAS, LOCATIONS ALL GOOD.
IS C TWO CHANGING THE SIZE AGAIN? IT IS, YES.
SO MAYBE WE SHOULD TABLE THAT, WAITING ON THAT ANSWER ON THE BILL.
SO LINE ITEM 13, WE'LL REVISIT THAT WITH THE, UM, THE OTHER ITEMS. OKAY.
NUMBER, UH, ITEM 15, ARTICLE TWO, 10.854 OUTDOOR OUTLETS, NEW REQUIREMENTS AND EXCEPTION.
VALERIE HAD A COMMENT HERE, NOT ADOPTED BY T D L R.
YOU WANNA ELABORATE ON THAT? WE, AND ACTUALLY THERE WAS A CLARIFICATION, SEE, UH, TRAINING THIS MORNING THAT, UM, THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY NOT ADOPTING IT.
THEY WERE GIVING A, A DATE FOR THE, UH, CONDENSING UNITS OR FOR THE, UH, EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS TO CATCH UP REQUIREMENT.
IT WAS MORE OF A, MORE OF A PHASE IN, IF YOU WILL.
SO THE, THE INSTRUCTOR THIS MORNING WAS OF THE OPINION THAT BASICALLY WE HAVE STATE DEPARTMENT ON THIS AS WELL.
I, I DON'T, I KIND OF AGREE WITH IT IN A WAY.
SO THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO ADOPT THIS AS WRITTEN.
SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE NEW, SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT A GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT TO HOOK UP THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT.
WHICH MEANS EVERY TIME THE COMPRESSOR IS A LITTLE PULLING A LITTLE TOO MANY AMPS, THE WHOLE THING'S GONNA SHUT OFF.
OKAY? NOW, NOW KEEP IN MIND THAT AS YOU LOOK AT THIS, IT, IT READS OUTDOOR OUTLETS FOR DWELLINGS OTHER THAN THOSE COVERED IN 2 10, 8, A THREE EXCEPTION TO THREE, THEY'RE SUPPLIED BY SINGLE PHASE BRANCH CIRCUITS RATED 150 VOLTS TO GROUND OR LESS 50 VOLTS OR, OR 50 AMPS OR LESS SHALL GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER PROTECTION FOR PERSONNEL.
SO THE MAJORITY OF YOUR AC UNITS ARE GONNA BE TWO 40 VOLT.
SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA, THIS WOULD BE LIKE A WIND
[00:55:01]
WINDOW UNIT, RIGHT? OR, OR THOSE NEW MITSUBISHI THINGS THAT GO ONTO WELL, YEAH.BUT THOSE ARE GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY POWERED BY AN OUTLET WITHIN THE, THE DWELLING AND NOT ON THE EXTERIOR.
YOU KNOW, AS, AS I LOOK AT THIS, TO ME THIS LOOKS MORE LIKE SOMETHING LIKE A, A A, YOU KNOW, 20, 120 VOLT LIKE HOT TUB OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WELL, AS, AS A CLARIFICATION, CLARIFICATION POOLS.
ANYWAY, AS A CLARIFICATION THOUGH, THE, UH, TWO 40 VOLT WOULD BE LESS THAN 150 TO GROUND BECAUSE OF EACH LEG WOULD BE 120.
SO I WOULD THINK IT WOULD APPLY TO A TWO FOUR VOLT SINGLE PHASE, WHICH IS EVERY UNIT PUT INTO A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE PRETTY MUCH.
AND SO, I MEAN, DE DEFINITELY SAFER.
SO, WELL, IT'S SAFER, BUT IT'S ALSO MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S AIR CONDITIONER WHEN YOU GET TO THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER AND THE COMPRESSOR GETS A LITTLE HOT AND STARTS YANKING IS GONNA SHUT OFF.
SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE WITH NO AIR CONDITIONING AND THAT'S
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE AS MANY DEATHS FROM PEOPLE OVERHEATING AS YOU ARE FROM SOMEBODY GETTING ELECTRIC TD.
AND I, I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S WHY T D L R HAS NOT, UH, PUSHED FORWARD WITH THAT BECAUSE OF THAT ISSUE.
AND SO THEY SET THE DATE FOR 2023.
AND I, I THINK WE SHOULD JUST HANG ON AND FOLLOW T D L L R.
SO, SO WE SHOULD STRIKE THIS, UH, HAVE AN AMENDMENT THAT, UH, STRIKES THIS OUT FOR THE 2020.
WE'RE JUST MAKING IT NOT APPLY TO AIR CONDITIONING.
UM, I FAILED TO MENTION THIS, BUT THIS YEAR WE WILL BE LOOKING AT ADOPTING THE I R C, UM, THE ELECTRICAL CHAPTERS IN THE I R C.
UM, RIGHT NOW WE, WE DO NOT ADOPT THOSE FOR PLUMBING OR ELECTRICAL FUEL, GAS ENERGY, BUT WE'LL BE LOOKING AT, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE I R C, UH, THAT APPLY TO ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS.
VALERIE, WHAT DID, WHAT DID T D L R SAY TODAY WHEN YOU WERE IN THAT MEETING? UM, WELL WHAT I BELIEVE THAT, THAT KEITH LAUGHLIN REFERRED TO WAS THAT THEY HAD JUST, UM, POSTPONED THE ADOPTION UNTIL THE MANUFACTURERS COULD CATCH UP TO MAKE THEIR EQUIPMENT WORK WITH GROUND FALL PROTECTION.
UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA.
I THINK IMPOSING THIS IS GONNA BE A PROBLEM.
PEOPLE ARE GONNA GET, THESE THINGS ARE GONNA TRIP AND IT'S GONNA BE A NUISANCE.
AND WHAT THE IS GONNA END UP HAPPENING IS THEY'RE GONNA TAKE THE GROUND FAULT OFF OF IT ANYWAY.
SO, I MEAN, GIVING IT TIME TO LET THE, THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS CATCH UP, I DON'T THINK IT'S AN ISSUE.
WHAT, WHAT IS THE CURRENT, UH, CODE SAY ON THAT ARTICLE? VALERIE? I DON'T THINK IT EVEN HAS ANYTHING ON THAT RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, I KNOW THAT THE VOLTAGES AND AMITIES EXPANDED IN TWO TEN EIGHT THIS YEAR, UH, ESPECIALLY FOR DWELLING UNITS.
DO YOU THINK THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY THE MANUFACTURERS PUT INTERNAL GROUND FAULT UNITS INSIDE THE AIR CONDITIONING UNITS THEMSELVES? CONDENSERS? NO.
I, I'D HAVE TO READ MORE WHAT THE STATE'S REASONING WAS.
I DO KNOW THAT IT WAS KIND OF A, A PHASE IN THING THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKING AT, THEY'RE TRYING TO JUST LET THE EQUIPMENT CATCH UP AND IT, IT COULD, WHERE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAVE THE GROUND FAULT PROTECTION PUT IN BY THE INSTALLER.
'CAUSE THEY, THEY DID THAT IN THE SIGN INDUSTRY WITH OUR NEON TRANSFORMERS.
THEY'LL HAVE INTERNAL GROUND FAULT, WHICH ARE PAIN IN THE BUTT.
SO I CAN TELL YOU FIRSTHAND, SO THIS MIGHT BE AN ISSUE LATER ON DOWN THE LINE.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT INTENT WAS.
RIGHT? BUT RIGHT NOW YOU CAN'T EVEN GET EQUIPMENT, PERIOD.
AND IF IT YOU HAVE TO BUY EQUIPMENT THAT WORKS WITH THE GROUND FAULT IN A NEW CONSTRUCTION, YOU'RE GONNA SLOW UP.
I MEAN, THIS COULD, IT'S, OR IT'S GONNA NOT WORK IN
[01:00:01]
THE MIDDLE OF THE HOT SUMMER.NO, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THAT'S GONNA HAVE A, A BIG IMPACT ON, UH, THE CONTRACTORS' WORK IN, IN THIS ENVIRONMENT AND WOULD BE A GOOD AND RIGHT THING TO GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO WEIGH IN ON IT.
BUT I, I CAN EASILY SEE THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF CONCERN ASSOCIATED WITH THIS WORK WITH NUISANCE STRIPPING.
VERY, THESE ARE ALL PUBLIC MEETINGS.
EVERYBODY HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND THESE, RIGHT? WE SEND THOSE OUT TO ALL OF OUR STAKEHOLDERS.
UH, I MEAN, THESE ARE OPEN AND WE HAVE 'EM ALL OVER THE WEBSITE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA GET, I MEAN, WE CAN REACH OUT SPECIFICALLY IF ANYBODY WANTS TO COME AND TALK ABOUT THIS ITEM.
IF ANYBODY FROM THE, UM, ANY CITIZENS TO SPEAK ON THIS ITEM, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA GET A LOT OF, UM, FEEDBACK.
AND IF THERE'S A CONCERN THAT THE MANUFACTURER'S EQUIPMENT ISN'T CAPABLE AND THE CITY SEEMS, YOU KNOW, COMFORTABLE STRIKING THIS, MY RECOMMENDATION IS WE JUST, WE JUST DO THAT AND LET YOU KNOW, LET THE TIME WILL, WILL SOLVE THIS.
YOU KNOW, AS THE MANUFACTURERS CATCH UP AND EXPERIENCE THIS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, INFORM, UH, A FOLLOWING DECISION.
UH, I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT WE'VE GOT WORKING IN OUR FAVOR IN THIS REGARD IS WE'RE LATE TO ADOPT THE, THE 2020 N E C ANYWAY.
AND THAT I COULD EASILY SEE IN THE NEXT CODE CYCLE AT THE N E C LEVEL.
THAT COMMENTS COMING IN ON THIS FROM THE INDUSTRY.
AND THEN WE CAN WE'LL BE IN A VERY SHORT ORDER, REVISITING THIS, UH, AS WE GO TOWARDS THE 2023 ANYWAY.
AND AS OTHER JU JURISDICTIONS PUT THIS IN AND THEIR AIR CONDITIONINGS DON'T WORK, THEY MAY COME BACK AND CHANGE IT.
SO I'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE JUST ADD AN EXCEPTION FOR, UH, AFTER THE CURRENT EXCEPTION.
NUMBER TWO TO SAY, UH, DOES NOT APPLY TO HEATING AND AIR CONDITIONING EQUIPMENT.
I, UH, MARK, I THINK THAT'S A MIS I THINK WE'D BE MUCH CLEARER TO JUST STRIKE ALL TWO 10.8 F WELL, BUT THE PROBLEM WITH DOING THAT, THAT, THEN I THINK THAT WOULD APPLY TO EVERY SINGLE PLUG THAT'S OUTSIDE AND THAT'S NOT THE INTENT.
SO YOU, YOU STILL HAVE TWO 10 A COVER COVER, ANOTHER TRADIT RECEPTACLES, AND YOU HAVE OTHER ARTICLES THROUGHOUT THE N E C COVERING, LIKE SWIMMING POOLS AND SPAS AND THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT REQUIRES G F C I.
OKAY, THEN THAT, THEN THAT WORKS.
SO I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT WE'RE JUST GONNA STRIKE THIS ONE AND IT'S ENTIRETY FOR NOW.
HEY RON, I HATE TO DO THIS 'CAUSE I LIKE PROGRESS, BUT CAN WE BACK UP REAL QUICK TO TWO TEN EIGHT? THE CHANGES ARE INDOOR, DAMP, AND WET LOCATIONS AND BASEMENTS.
IS THAT A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE? WHAT IS A INDOOR DAMP LOCATION THAT'S NOT A BATHROOM OR A KITCHEN OR A LAUNDRY ROOM? IF THAT'S, IF IT'S INSIGNIFICANT, YOU CAN TELL ME THAT AND WE CAN MOVE ON.
WELL, YOU KNOW, SO, SO THINK OF A DAMP, DAMP, AND WET LOCATION.
SO ANY PLACE WHERE CONDENSATION OR WATER CAN, CAN ACCUMULATE TO WHERE G F C I WOULD BE, UH, PRUDENT HAVE PROTECTION.
SO DOES THAT MEAN THE PLUG INSIDE THE AIR CONDITIONING CLOSET OR THE SERVICE TO THE INDOOR AIR CONDITIONING BECAUSE IT'S A DAMP AREA? ALL RIGHT.
SO THE, SO THE UNIT ITSELF, UH, REMOVES CON REMOVES HUMIDITY OUTTA THE AIR, AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOUR CONDENSATE DRAIN LINE THAT TYPICALLY IS NOT WHAT WE WOULD SEE AS A, AS A WET OR DAMP APPLICATION.
UH, I, I WOULD SAY A, UH, LIKE A SHOWER ROOM FLOOR.
UH, WE, WE SAW THAT IN A MEDICAL CLINIC WHERE THE OLD CODE, WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD A G F C I, BUT THE FLOOR COULD BE WET.
SO IT'S, WE APPLIED IT AS IN DESIGN.
UM, ITEM 16, ARTICLE 2, 10 11 C FOUR.
SO WE ARE TABLING, UH, WE CHANGE FOUR OR BRAND
IT'S A MINOR CHANGE THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO ADOPT AS WRITTEN FOUR.
[01:05:23]
YOU GUYS GOOD WITH THAT ONE? NUMBER 17, WE HAVE CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE 2, 10 12, A 2 10, 12 A.IS THAT A PROPOSED AMENDMENT, VALERIE? I'M SORRY, MAYBE I MISSPOKE THERE.
UH, FOR ARC FAULT FOR DWELLING UNITS, I THINK THIS KIND OF GOES BACK TO THE HABITABLE ROOM SITUATION.
SO MAYBE I KIND OF WAS A LITTLE REDUNDANT ON THIS.
UM, I THINK BY MAKING A CHANGE AND PUTTING IT UNDER THE DEFINITION OF DWELLING UNITS, I, I THINK WE'RE COVERED.
SO WE'RE GONNA DELETE THIS ONE OUT? YES.
ARTICLE 2, 10 12 C AND D CHANGES THERE TO REVISE OR THEY EXPANDED THE REQUIREMENTS FOR ARC FAULT IN CERTAIN AREAS OF NURSING HOMES AND LIMITED CARE FACILITIES.
AMENDMENT ON THE RECOMMEND CATCHY OUT THERE.
ARE YOU GUYS GOOD WITH THAT ONE? C AND D ITEM 19.
ARTICLE TWO, 10 POINT 15 FOR RECONDITION EQUIPMENT.
UH, WE PROPOSE TO ADOPT AS WRITTEN.
IT JUST IDENTIFIES EQUIPMENT, UH, THAT CANNOT BE RECONDITIONED GENERALLY.
WHAT IS THAT GOING TO BE? SO, SO AS AN EXAMPLE, UM, IF I TAKE, UH, PIECE OF SWITCHGEAR, I CAN SEND THAT OFF TO A COMPANY THAT WILL RECONDITION IT, RELABEL IT, SEND IT BACK, AND I CAN INSTALL IT.
AN EXCEPTION TO THAT, WHERE YOU CANNOT USE RECONDITIONED EQUIPMENT IS WHERE LIFE SAFETY IS, IS ENGAGED.
SO LIKE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH.
IF I HAVE AN AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCH THAT'S FOR LIFE SAFETY THAT CANNOT BE RECON, CANNOT BE RECONDITIONED.
BUT OFTEN IF A TRANSFER SWITCH THAT PROVIDES, SAY, UH, SAY I'M OUT AT U T S A AND I'VE GOT A SCIENCE LAB AND I'VE GOT A TRANSFER SWITCH THAT PROVIDES A BACKUP HIRE FOR, UM, REFRIGERATION AND THAT KIND OF STUFF FOR, FOR THE LAB THAT'S NOT LIFE SAFETY.
THAT THAT COULD BE RECONDITIONED EQUIPMENT.
IT WOULD APPLY TO ANYTHING AND GET, AND THAT YOU COULD PHYSICALLY TAKE APART FIX, PUT BACK TOGETHER A MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKER.
YOU'RE NOT TAKING A MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKER.
WELL, NO, BUT I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
WOULD YOU STILL BE ABLE TO GET THOSE RECONDITIONED AND REUSED UNDER THIS? SO, SO AN IN AN ELECTRICAL PANEL, I CAN BUY NEW BREAKERS AND INSTALLING THAT PANEL.
CAN YOU BUY RECONDITION? WOULD THIS PROHIBIT YOU FROM BUYING IN CERTAIN APPLICATIONS? IT WOULD PROHIBIT YOU.
AGAIN, LIFE SAFETY BEING AN EXAMPLE.
YEAH, I, I WOULD JUST ASK THAT WE DO A LITTLE MORE RESEARCH BECAUSE IN A WHOLE LOT OF RESIDENTIAL UNITS ACROSS SAN ANTONIO, BECAUSE THERE ARE MANUFACTURERS THAT HAVE GONE OUTTA BUSINESS, THE COST OF REPLACING THE PANEL IS LIKE SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS.
VERSUS COMPANIES THAT ARE BUYING ARE REMANUFACTURING, YOU KNOW, RECONDITIONING BREAKERS THAT ARE NO GOOD IN SELLING THEM AS RECONDITIONED BREAKERS.
AND I JUST THINK WE GOTTA BE CAREFUL THAT THEY'RE NOT DRAWN INTO THAT.
BECAUSE LIKE ON SOME OF OUR OLDER STUFF, WE CANNOT FIND, YOU KNOW, YOU CANNOT BUY NEW BREAKERS BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURER'S OUT OF BUSINESS.
[01:10:07]
IF IT DOESN'T COVER THAT, I'M OKAY WITH IT.NO, THEY, IN THE ARTICLE, UH, TWO 10 POINT 15, IT SPECIFIES GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTER RUPTURE PROTECTION FOR PERSONNEL EQUIPMENT THAT PROVIDES ARC FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER FOR PROTECTION AND EQUIPMENT THAT PROVIDES GROUND FAULT PROTECTION FOR EQUIPMENT.
NOW, THERE ARE SOME BREAKERS THAT YOU CAN RECONDITION AND THEY, THEY SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO MARK OUT THE MANUFACTURER'S NAME AND PUT YOUR, UH, NAME ON IT.
BUT LIKE, UH, THE MOLDED CASE BREAKERS, THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE RECONDITIONED.
THOSE ARE MEANT TO BE THROWN AWAY.
BUT THERE ARE SOME, LIKE YOUR HIGH DOLLAR, THE BIG BREAKERS THAT ARE MADE TO BE, I'M TALKING ABOUT 10 AND 15 ANT BREAKERS.
SO THAT FALLS UNDER MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKERS.
YOU CANNOT RECONDITION MOLDED CASE CIRCUIT BREAKERS.
ONCE THEY FAIL, THEY, THEY'RE A DISPOSABLE ITEM THAT YOU THROW 'EM AWAY.
IN FACT, THEN HOW CAN THEY SELL 'EM IS RECONDITIONED YEAH.
THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE WORKING, THEY'RE NOT SELLING THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE, THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT APPROPRIATELY.
SIR, KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE'S A, A NEW DEFINITION IN ARTICLE 100 RECONDITIONED, ELECTRICAL MECHANICAL SYSTEMS, EQUIPMENT APPARATUS, AND COMPONENTS THAT ARE RESTORED TO OPERATING CONDITIONS.
THIS PROCESS DIFFERS FROM NORMALLY SERVICING OF EQUIPMENT THAT REMAINS WITHIN A FACILITY OR REPLACEMENT OF LISTED EQUIPMENT ON A ONE-TO-ONE BASIS.
DO YOU WANNA EXPAND ON THE LANGUAGE MAYBE A LITTLE BIT, OR IS THAT SUFFICIENT? SO, ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE, KEEP IN MIND WE'RE, WE'RE SIMPLY LOOKING AT TWO 10 POINT 15, AND IT SIMPLY IDENTIFIES CERTAIN ITEMS THAT CANNOT BE RECONDITIONED, AS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, THOSE, THOSE THREE ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED.
SO IF YOU GO TO, THERE'S OTHER ARTICLES THAT THIS TOUCHES ON AND HAS NEW, UH, VERBIAGE ADDED TO IT.
AND I'LL READ FROM ARTICLE 4 0 8, SWITCHBOARD, SWITCHGEAR AND PANEL BOARDS.
RECONDITIONING OF EQUIPMENT WITHIN THE SCOPE OF THIS ARTICLE SHALL BE LIMITED AS DESCRIBED IN 4 0 8 0.8 A AND B, THE RECONDITIONING PROCESS SHALL USE DESIGN QUALIFIED PARTS FER VERIFIED UNDER APPLICABLE STANDARDS AND BE PERFORMED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ANY INSTRUCTIONS PROVIDED BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THE EQUIPMENT HAS BEEN DAMAGED BY FIRE PRODUCTS OF COMBUSTION OR WATER.
IT SHALL BE SPECIFICALLY EVALUATED BY ITS MANUFACTURER OR A QUALIFIED TESTING LABORATORY PRIOR TO BEING RETURNED TO SERVICE.
AND THEN IT GOES ON TO LIST ADDITIONAL SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR PANEL BOARDS.
PANEL BOARDS SHALL NOT BE PERMITTED TO BE RECONDITIONED.
SO THAT'S THE PANEL BOARD ITSELF, EVEN LET ALONE THE BREAKERS.
THIS SHALL NOT PREVENT THE REPLACEMENT OF A PANEL BOARD WITHIN AN ENCLOSURE.
SO YOU CAN REUSE THE PANEL CAN IN THE EVENT THE REPLACEMENT HAS NOT BEEN LISTED FOR THE SPECIFIC ENCLOSURE AND ANY AVAILABLE FAULT CURRENT IS GREATER THAN 10,000 AMPERS.
THE COMPLETED WORK SHALL BE FIELD LABELED AND ANY PREVIOUSLY APPLIED LISTING MARKS ON THE CABINET THAT PERTAIN TO THE PANEL SHALL BE REMOVED.
SO THERE'S VERY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS ASSOCIATED WITH WHAT CAN AND CANNOT BE RECONDITIONED.
SO IF THERE'S SOMEBODY OUT THERE DOING IT, THEY'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE.
SO, AND IT MAY BE USED BREAKERS AND NOT RECONDITION BREAKERS.
SO THAT MAY BE THE DIFFERENCE.
NEXT ITEM ARTICLE TWO, 10 POINT 19.
SO WE HAVE CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT.
THERE WERE SOME CHANGES, UM, TO THESE SECTIONS.
A ONE A, UM, AND THE EXCEPTIONS AND A THREE.
YEAH, I THINK PRIMARILY THIS IS EDITORIAL IN NATURE AND JUST WE NEED TO GET THE ORDINANCE
[01:15:01]
IN, IN LINE WITH THE EDITORIAL REVISIONS.YES, WE HAVE A NOTE TO, TO UPDATE THAT, BUT NO SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE INTENT.
VALERIE, ARE YOU GOOD WITH THESE? YES.
CURRENT CSA AMENDMENT TO TWO TEN TWO TEN POINT 52 B ONE.
TWO 10, OH, SORRY, THAT IS TWO 10 POINT 52.
WE HAVE THAT IN THERE FOR, UH, SMALL APPLIANCES.
CRYSTAL, THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO NEW APPLICATIONS OR WHEN YOU'RE MESSING WITH IT, IF SOMEBODY HAS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN THAT THAT GOT PUT IN A LONG TIME AGO AND APPROVED, IT'S BASICALLY GRANDFATHERED UNTIL YOU MESS WITH IT.
THE NEXT ITEM TWO 10 POINT 52 C FOR COUNTERTOPS AND WORKSPACES WE'RE PROPOSING TO ADOPT THIS MINOR CHANGE FOR REVISIONS TO COUNTERTOP RECEPTACLES AND INCREASING THE NUMBER, UH, FOR PENINSULAS AND ISLANDS.
NEXT ITEM TWO, 10 POINT 52 E THREE BALCONIES, DECKS, AND PORCHES.
I THINK THAT THAT IS THE INTENT, LIKE IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT RIGHT OFF THE, UM, I SAY DWELLING UNIT, BUT IF IT'S NOT YEAH, RIGHT OFF THE STRUCTURE, THEN THIS WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED.
SO HOW WOULD THIS TIE IN? IF I WAS GONNA PULL A PERMIT TO BUILD A DECK AND THE DECK WAS GONNA BE ATTACHED TO MY HOUSE AND IT DIDN'T HAVE AN OUTLET WITHIN FOUR INCHES, IS THIS COMPLETELY NEW? I MEAN, IF IT'S NOT WORTH ANSWERING THE QUESTION, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DEALT WITH, BUT WOULD A INSPECTOR THAT'S SENT OUT TO LOOK AT, TO INSPECT, UH, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A PORCH NO.
TO LOOK FOR THIS? OR IS IT NOT EVEN TRIGGERED IF I'M, OR IF, AM I JUST COMPLETELY OUTTA LEFT FIELD ON THAT? YEAH, SO, SO, SO THE, THE CHANGE IF, IF, UH, THE WAY THE N E C IDENTIFIES CHANGES, SO THEY'RE AT THE BOTTOM OF PAGE, UH, 70 DASH 69, THE GRAY AREA IS THE ONLY CHANGE.
THE REST OF THAT LANGUAGE IS, WAS EXISTING LANGUAGE.
SO THE REQUIREMENT EXISTED, IT JUST, IT JUST CLARIFIED THE FOUR INCH HORIZONTAL MEASUREMENT.
SO WHAT WAS IT BEFORE? THERE WAS NO, THERE WAS NO MEASUREMENT.
SO ARE YOU ALL ENFORCING THIS? SOMEBODY WANTS TO POUR A PATIO DECK ON THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSE AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A PLUG.
ARE YOU TURNING THAT DOWN? ARE YOU MAKING THAT AS A REQUIREMENT FOR THE BUILDING PERMIT FOR THEM TO IDENTIFY WHERE THE PLUG IS? SO KEEP IN MIND THAT IN A, IN A NEW CONSTRUCTION ENVIRONMENT, THIS HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR QUITE SOME TIME THAT YOU GO OUT THE BACK DOOR.
THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A RECEPTACLE THERE.
SO, SO NOW IT'S, IT'S GIVING A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION AS TO YEAH, YOU KNOW.
LET'S SAY I PUT A DECK THAT'S OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF MY YARD, A GAZEBO, IF YOU WILL.
I DON'T NEED A RECEPTACLE OUT THERE 'CAUSE IT'S MORE THAN FOUR INCHES AWAY.
I DON'T CARE BECAUSE TO PUT THE PLUG IN WHEN NOTHING'S THERE IS EASY PEASY.
WHEN SOME SAN ANTONIO WANTS TO GO ADD A DECK TO THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSE THAT HAS WAS BUILT, IT'S A, IT'S A HUNDRED YEAR OLD STRUCTURE AND THEY WANNA ADD A DECK TO THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSE AND GET RID
[01:20:01]
OF A LITTLE CONCRETE STEPS.ARE YOU GONNA MAKE THEM PUT A PLUG IN TO AS TO PULL THE PERMIT? BECAUSE THIS, THIS SAYS THAT IT MUST BE THERE AND I'M ASSUMING IT APPLIES NOW TO THAT PROCESS.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE DOING THAT.
UM, WE DON'T REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, ELECTRICAL PERMIT TO BE PULLED WITH YOUR NEW DECK OR PATIO.
UM, AND AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MAKING A CHANGE TO SAY IF THAT PATIO IS OR DECK IS WITHIN FOUR INCHES, UM, LIKE RON SAID, IF YOU HAVE A GAZEBO IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR YARD, THIS WOULDN'T APPLY.
UM, IT COULD HAVE APPLIED PREVIOUSLY 'CAUSE IT DIDN'T HAVE THAT, UM, LOCATION SPECIFIED.
WE'RE NOT CURRENTLY ENFORCING THIS FOR EXISTING, UM, DWELLING UNITS WHERE YOU'RE NOW, UM, ADDING ON A DECK OR PATIO.
VALERIE, DO YOU, UH, CONFIRM THAT OUR BUILDING INSPECTORS, I WOULD AGREE WOULDN'T BE LOOKING FOR THAT.
RAMIRO BUILDING INSPECTORS ARE NOT LOOKING FOR AN ELECTRICAL OUTLET WHEN THEY GO INSPECT YOUR DECK.
SO I THINK A, IF WE'RE NOT ENFORCING IT FOR EXISTING CONSTRUCTION, CONSTRUCTION WHERE YOU'RE MODIFYING TO ADD, RIGHT? SO CAN, WOULD, WOULD ANYBODY HAVE A PROBLEM ADDING THAT EXEMPTION IN THAT IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ADDING AFTER IT'S ALREADY BUILT? I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANNA GO THAT FAR.
IF WE WERE DOING REWIRES, THEN THOSE EXTERIOR ASPECTS WOULD BE REQUIRED AS, AS I UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT'S BEEN SAID.
UH, SOMEBODY PULLS A PERMIT, BUILDS A DECK, PUTS A PATIO, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO ANY ELECTRIC WORK.
IT JUST DOESN'T SHOW UP IN THE PROCESS.
RIGHT? IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
THEY HAVE TO DO IT, BUT WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR IT.
I THINK IT'S A MORE ACCURATE, BECAUSE IF IT'S IN HERE AND YOU PULL THE PERMIT, WELL, PERHAPS I WAS
BUT TO BE VERY HONEST, NO, IT'S NOT BEING LOOKED FOR AS ADDING A DECK OR A PATIO TO AN EXISTING, UH, RESIDENCE.
THE HOUSE LIKELY IS ALREADY HAVE.
SO IT'S LIKELY THAT THE, THAT THE HOUSE WOULD ALREADY HAVE AN OUTLET, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS BEEN REQUIRED.
WELL, IT HAS, IT HASN'T ALWAYS BEEN REQUIRED, BUT IT HAS BEEN REQUIRED FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
THE, THE EXTERIOR OUTLET FOR, FOR A HOME HAS BEEN ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE FOR A, A LONG TIME.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE I COULD SEE THIS COMING INTO PLAY IS, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BUY A NEW HOME AND, AND ELECT TO SEE, HEY, FOR MY BACK DOOR, I WANT A PATIO OR I WANT A STOOP, RIGHT? SO YOU SAY, WELL, I DON'T HAVE HAVE THE MONEY FOR THE PATIO NOW.
SO YOU PUT IN A STOOP AND THEN, YOU KNOW, A FEW YEARS DOWN THE ROAD YOU SAY, OKAY, I'VE SAVED UP THE MONEY.
UM, NOW IF YOU HAD AN OLDER HOME, TO YOUR POINT, UM, YOU TAKE OUT A PERMIT TO POUR A PATIO, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE OUT A PERMIT TO PUT IN A PATIO.
YOU'RE NOT TAKING OUT A PER, YOU KNOW, NOW IF YOU TOOK OUT A PERMIT TO PUT IN A PATIO AND PUT A COVER ON THAT PATIO, AND NOW I WANNA PUT SOME LIGHTS, MAYBE AN OUTDOOR CEILING FAN ON THAT PATIO, NOW IT'S A DIFFERENT CONVERSATION.
WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THE OUT? I'M GONNA TELL YOU, IF I, IF I'M A HOMEOWNER AND I GO OUT MY BACK DOOR ON MY PATIO AND THERE'S NO OUTLET THERE, I GOT A PROBLEM.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT, YOU'RE NOT ENFORCING IT.
SO I JUST THINK WE LEAVE IT BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS, IS THERE IS AN OUTLET ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, IT MAY NOT BE ON THE PATIO.
AND THE WAY I READ THIS IS THAT OUTLET HAS TO BE ON THE PATIO BALCONY NOT ADJACENT TO IT.
YOU KNOW, SO I, I JUST DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO GET IN TRAPS RIGHT NOW.
NOW KEEP, KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS REQUIREMENT HAS BEEN IN, IN HERE A LONG TIME, QUITE, QUITE A WHILE, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE EVER HEARD ANYBODY COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.
YEAH, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE FIRE POLE STATIONS THAT IT WAS IN THE CODE SINCE 2009 UNTIL SOMEBODY STARTED ENFORCING IT.
NOBODY KNEW PAID ATTENTION THAT IT WAS IN THE CODE.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK THIS IS, WE LEAVE IT, BUT YOU KNOW, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WHEN YOU PULL A NEW PERMIT FOR WORK, THAT
[01:25:01]
THIS IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE HOMEOWNER'S NOT GONNA GET TRAPPED AND REQUIRED TO SPEND, YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND DOLLARS BRINGING A CIRCUIT OUT TO THE, ESPECIALLY ON SOME OF THE OLD HISTORIC HOUSES AND STUFF LIKE THAT.WELL, AND I, I THINK WE REALLY RUN INTO, YOU KNOW, AN EXPANDED CONVERSATION ON THIS THAT ANYTIME YOU'RE DOING WORK ON, ON AN EXISTING HOME, THAT AT WHAT POINT THEN DO YOU HAVE TO BRING AN AREA OR A COMPONENT UP TO CODE, YOU KNOW, AND SO THAT, THAT COULD BE A, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE A LONG EXTENDED CONVERSATION ON THAT.
UM, WELL RON, WE'VE BEEN GOING FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF.
DO YOU GUYS WANNA TAKE FIVE MINUTE OR YOU GOOD? DO YOU I'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND WE TAKE 15 MINUTES AND TAKE A BIOLOGY BREAK.
[01:44:14]
CAN[01:44:14]
YOU[01:44:15]
EXPLAIN THE EXEMPTION PLEASE? SO IF FOR SOME OTHER SYSTEM NOT USE THIS, SO, ALL RIGHT, SO LET'S JUST GO STRAIGHT TO THE SECTION.SO 2, 2 20 POINT 87 DETERMINING EXISTING LOADS SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE FIRST THING WE GOTTA LOOK AT IS WE'RE AT EXISTING LOADS.
UM, THE CALCULATION OF A FEEDER SERVICE LOAD FOR EXISTING INSTALLATIONS SHALL BE PERMITTED TO USE ACTUAL MAXIMUM DEMAND TO DETERMINE THE EXISTING LOAD UNDER ALL THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.
RIGHT? SO RATHER THAN USING A CALCULATED DEMAND, WE'RE GONNA USE ACTUALS.
RIGHT? SO THAT GIVES US THAT, THAT OPTION,
[01:45:01]
UM, AND IT GOES ON TO GIVE YOU INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO GO ABOUT DOING THAT.UH, WITH AN EXCEPTION OF MAXIMUM DEMAND DATA FROM ONE YEAR PERIOD IS NOT AVAILABLE.
OKAY? SO WE JUST DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE SOLAR AND DECIDE TO TAKE IT OFF AND THEN ONLY HAVE, SO, SO THE PROJECT PART OF THE KEY IS THIS, IS, IS DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH SOLAR DO YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, SO LET'S TAKE A A CRAZY EXAMPLE AND SAY YOU'VE GOT A 200 AMP SERVICE, BUT I'VE GOT ENOUGH SOLAR THAT'LL PUT OUT 300 AMPS.
IT'S BASICALLY STATING THAT YOU NEED SOME BASELINE AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY TO FEED THE HOUSE OR WHATEVER, RIGHT? YOU, YOU GOTTA, YOU GOTTA CALCULATE AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING'S COMPATIBLE.
ARE WE READY FOR THE NEXT ITEM? 2 25 POINT 10 WIRING ON BUILDINGS.
SO YOU'RE, WE ARE PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT HERE, WHICH WE, WE MAY NEED FURTHER DISCUSSION OR, OR TO REVISE THAT THOUGHT.
VALERIE, YOU WANNA CHIME IN ON THIS ONE? WELL, YOU KNOW, KNOW THIS IS COURSE IS ALL, UH, WAYS OR IS GONNA BE GOVERNED BY THE STATE LAW.
I KNOW WE DO HAVE AN AMENDMENT RESTRICT USES ON NM CABLE OR ROMEX.
UM, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S EVER SAID ANYTHING SP SE CABLE BEING RESTRICTED.
UM, BUT AGAIN, IF THE STAFF GOING TO BE KNOCKING ALL OF THESE, IT'S GONNA MEAN THAT ROMEX AND
THE CODE PERMITS NO LONGER RESIDENTIAL IN MULTI-FAMILY.
SO IS MX ALLOWED IN COMMERCIAL UNDER THE N E C? YES.
IN CERTAIN INSTANCES THEN I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
SO ESSENTIALLY THIS IDEA TO, ON THE SE RESTRICTED TO MATCH THE, THE, THE AMENDMENTS STATE LAW, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN.
SO WHAT IF WE ATTACK THIS FROM A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, THAT WE PRETEND THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STATE IS TELLING US TO DO.
WE GET THROUGH EACH ONE OF THESE AND THEN OKAY, LATER ON IF THE STATE COME AFTER WE'VE EVALUATED THE STATE REQUIREMENTS, SAY, YEAH, WE CAN'T DO THAT, THEN WE STRIKE IT AT THAT TIME.
UM, YOU KNOW, I KNOW, YEAH, I KNOW WE'VE TABLED SOME OF THESE TILL NEXT TIME ANYWAY, BUT WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE HAVE LOOKED AT OTHER JURISDICTIONS WHAT THE, THE LANGUAGE OF THE LAW SAYS AND, AND WE'VE ALREADY MADE THE DETERMINATION.
YEAH, IT DOESN'T, UH, EVERYTHING I'VE FOUND SO FAR, A COUPLE CITIES IS SPECIFICALLY GOING BACK TO THE PREVIOUS AMENDMENT, UM, A COUPLE OF CITIES HAVE SPECIFICALLY CALLED OUT WIRING SIZE.
IT'S SOMETHING THEY CAN NO LONGER REGULATE.
UM, I, I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND, UM, ADOPTING ANYTHING THAT WE KNOW IS GONNA BE VOID ON ITS FACE.
THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT'S LOOKING.
UH, BUT AGAIN, UM, WE'LL, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, FOLLOW THROUGH EVERY, EVERY POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN TO SEE WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE, WHAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO.
AND, UH, AND WE'LL, YOU KNOW, APPROACH IT THAT WAY.
BUT LIKE ON THE COLORING DEAL, WE COULD LEAVE THE CODE IT AS IS AND ON THE SIZE OF THE COLOR THAT WE'RE HAVING PROBLEMS GETTING COLOR WIRING OF A CERTAIN SIZE, LEAVE IT LIKE THE CODE SAYS AND THEN SAY THIS IS AN ALTERNATIVE METHOD OF MEETING THIS STANDARD AND, AND WHICH YOU'RE ALLOWING EITHER OR TO BE DONE, WHICH I BELIEVE EVEN IF, YOU KNOW, THE, THE STATE LAW SAYS THAT YOU CAN MAKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT AS ACCEPTABLE.
[01:50:01]
CODE ALLOW EITHER OR AS FAR AS HOW IT'S ENFORCED? BECAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS BUY THE COLORED INSULATION, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO, YOU CAN TAPE IT, RIGHT? RIGHT.UH, BUT IT ALSO SAID THAT YOU CAN USE A DIFFERENT SIZE WIRE.
I TOLD THAT IT'S AVAILABLE EASY.
SO YOU COULD SAY, NOT TO TAKE US BACKWARDS TO THAT SECTION, BUT IT, UH, IT REQUIRED COLOR CODING THROUGHOUT, UH, FOR UNDER CERTAIN SIZES AMENDMENT.
DID, I JUST DON'T WANT TO STEP BACK THAT FAR, BUT JUST TO CLARIFY POINT.
YEAH, THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THE WIRE SIZE REQUIRED JUST FOR WHETHER YOU HAVE TO BUY IT WITH COLORED INSULATION OR YOU CAN IDENTIFY IT, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
AND I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF FOLLOW SUIT WITH SE CABLE IS, IT'S PREDOMINANTLY BEEN USED IN THAT MANNER HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S ACTUALLY SPELLED OUT ANYWHERE.
AGAIN, UNDER THIS, WITH THE STATE LAW, I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO IT.
IT WAS JUST SOMETHING I HAD ALWAYS THOUGHT ABOUT IN THE REVIEWING PLANS.
SO ON 37, I WOULD SAY THAT THE RECOMMENDATION TO PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT IS NOT APPROVED.
WE ARE MAKING SOME GREAT HEADWAY.
SO I ONLY HAVE A FEW MORE LEFT TO GO.
UM, YOU KNOW, VALERIE HAS GONE THROUGH THE CODE.
WE'VE SAT AND, AND DISCUSSED IT WITH STAFF WHO JUST DON'T HAVE IT ALL NICE AND PRETTY, UM, LIKE THIS YET FOR YOU GUYS.
SO WE CAN KEEP CHUGGING ON OR WE CAN JUST, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE, UM, GETTING TO THE END OF THESE THAT I HAVE PRINTED FOR EVERYBODY.
SO I'D LIKE TO REVISIT A FEW OF THE DEFINITIONS IF WE COULD.
YOU SEE ME SEE HOW EXCITED I WAS? I WOULD, BUT I HAVE SURE.
I HAVE ONE THING I'D LIKE TO CONSIDER ADDING TO THE LIST TO TALK ABOUT IS IN RESIDENTIAL UNITS WHERE WE HAVE BREAKERS THAT ARE INSIDE CLOSETS WHERE IT IS PROHIBITED NOW FROM REPLACING THE, UH, PANEL INSIDE A CLOSET LOCATION WITHOUT HAVING TO, IF YOU'RE GONNA REPLACE THE PANEL, YOU GOTTA MOVE IT OUTSIDE OF THE CLOSET, WHICH GENERALLY MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA, BUT WHAT IT, WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU NEED TO WEIGH BRAND NEW PANEL VERSUS FUSE PANEL, LEAVING IT IN THE CLOSET VERSUS IT NOT BEING REPLACED AT ALL, WHICH MAKES IT INHERENTLY MORE DANGEROUS.
BUT THE COST OF THAT RELOCATION TO SOMEPLACE MEETING THE CURRENT CODE IS KIND OF IMPOSSIBLE.
AND SO I LIKE TO OFFER SOME KIND OF EXEMPTION THAT IF YOU'RE JUST REPLACING IT WHERE IT IS AND NOT INCREASING SERVICE SIZE OR NOT DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN TAKING THE OLD PANEL OUT AND REPLACING IT WITH A BRAND NEW PANEL, IT CAN STAY EXACTLY WHERE IT IS, LIKE LIMITED TO REPLACEMENT IN A DWELLING UNIT.
AND ANOTHER JUST TURN YOURSELF OFF
SO YEAH, IN, IN DWELLING UNITS, BECAUSE WHAT, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS, IS LIKE WHEN WE GO THROUGH A REMODEL PROCESS WHERE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING UPGRADES AND STUFF LIKE THAT TO BRING THE UNIT UP, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE ARE DITCHING THE PANELS REPLACEMENT OF THE PANEL BECAUSE ONCE I TOUCH THE PANEL, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY IT HAS TO GO FROM THE CLOSET WHERE, WHERE
[01:55:01]
IT WAS PUT IN, IN PRETTY MUCH EVERY APARTMENT THAT WAS BUILT IN THE FIFTIES, SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES INTO, YOU KNOW, A HALL OR SOMEWHERE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO START TEARING EVERYTHING OUT WHERE, OR AS WE GET BREAKERS FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WE CAN'T FIND THE BREAKERS ANYMORE, THAT WE WOULD CHANGE THE PANEL OUT.IF WE COULD JUST LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS.
IS THAT A POINT MAYBE YOU WANNA BRING UP, UM, WHEN WE GET TO THAT SECTION OR YEAH, WE CAN JUST WAIT TILL, 'CAUSE I KNOW THAT WE DO HAVE THAT ON OUR LIST.
UH, I DON'T CARE WHEN, BUT I THINK I'D, I'D REALLY LIKE THAT ON BECAUSE AS, AS UNITS ARE GETTING REMODELED ALL AROUND TOWN, YOU KNOW, OTHER STUFF IS GETTING DONE, BUT THE PANEL IS BEING LEFT ALONE WHERE IT WOULD BE VERY, YOU KNOW, FROM A FIRE PROTECTION, IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE A NEW PANEL WITH NEW BREAKERS IN IT VERSUS FUSES AND STUFF.
AND THE TRADE OFF IS, IT'S GONNA STAY WHERE IT IS.
I'LL MAKE A NOTE THAT, THAT, WE'LL HAVE THAT ITEM UP FOR DISCUSSION.
THE NEXT ONE ON OUR LIST NUMBER 38 FOR ARTICLE 2 25 POINT 30 B COMMON SUPPLY EQUIPMENT.
THIS IS A NEW SECTION, VALERIE, YOU WANNA TOUCH ON THIS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO STRIKE THIS, UM, 2 25.
THE CURRENT CODE WITH CERTAIN EXCEPTIONS GENERALLY ALLOWS ONE FEEDER OR BRANCH CIRCUIT TO STRUCTURE.
IT'S, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A PERSONAL PREFERENCE THAT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ONE FEEDER AND NOT MULTIPLE FEEDERS TO A SECOND.
THERE ARE ALLOWANCES, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS WHEN THERE'S QUALIFIED PERSONNEL AND A FEW OTHER EXCEPTIONS TO THAT, BUT, UM, I'M, I'M JUST NOT CRAZY ABOUT THE MULTIPLE FEEDERS RUNNING OVER.
TALK ABOUT HAVING GROUP DISCONNECTS AT THE SECOND LOCATION.
I'D BE INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT THE ELECTRICIAN'S POINT OF VIEW IS ON IT, BUT, WELL, IN MY MIND, IF, IF I'VE GOT A, UH, A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT'S GOT SIX DISCONNECTS IN IT AND SIX SEPARATE FEEDERS GOING TO, UH, A LOCATION, I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER SERVED AND IT'D BE MORE ECONOMICAL TO PUT A SINGLE FEEDER TO THAT DIS TO THAT LOCATION, PUT THE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THERE, AND THEN BEGIN WITH YOUR SIX FEEDERS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THEY SERVE, BUT NOT SIX SEPARATE FEEDERS.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, THIS REQUIREMENT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE ALMOST TRYING TO REPLICATE THE SIX HANDLE RULE.
BUT YOU KNOW, TO ME, I, IF I GO OVER THERE AND I'M NOT FOLLOWING THE NOMENCLATURE CLOSELY AND I TURN OFF ONE FEEDER, I THINK I'VE KILLED THE POWER TO THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION.
AND IN REALITY I'VE GOT FIVE MORE FEEDERS THAT ARE FEEDING OVER THERE AND IT'S, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF STILL ENERGIZED.
DOES THIS MOSTLY DEAL LIKE WITH MANUFACTURING KIND OF STUFF? NO, WE HAVE OTHER BUILDINGS, COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AROUND SERVICES ON ONE BUILDING.
THEY HAVE A SECONDARY STRUCTURE.
I THINK EVEN SCHOOLS WE RUN INTO THIS, UM, AND THEY'LL, THEY'LL RUN, WANT TO RUN MORE THAN ONE FEEDER TO THAT SECOND STRUCTURE.
AND WE DO HAVE SOME EXISTING STRUCTURES WHERE WE DO HAVE MULTIPLE FEEDERS WHERE THIS WASN'T SO OVER TIME THINGS HAVE ADDED LATER ON.
WE DON'T HAVE GROUP DISCONNECTS AT THAT SECOND.
AND AS RON MENTIONED, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE DISCONNECTING THINGS OR YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON AND NOT BE AWARE OF IT.
YEAH, I COULD SEE THIS, UH, THE APPLICATION OF THIS WHERE YOU HAD A, A CENTRAL ELECTRIC ROOM IN ONE BUILDING AND MAYBE DIDN'T HAVE THAT IN THE ADJACENT BUILDING.
AND SO YOU WANTED TO RUN SMALLER INDIVIDUAL FEEDERS TO PANEL BOARDS, BUT YOU, YOU WOULDN'T THEN HAVE THE MEANS TO GO TO ONE DISCONNECT FOR THAT SEPARATE BUILDING.
YOU'D HAVE TO GO TO THE MAIN ELECTRIC IN THE, IN THE OTHER BUILDING.
[02:00:01]
APPLIED, LET'S SAY IN A RETAIL CENTER WHERE YOU TENANT EXPANDS AND TAKES THE NEXT SPACE OVER AND ENDS UP WITH TWO SERVICES FROM C P S INTO THE BUILDING.NO, THAT WOULD BE IF IT WERE A COMPLETELY SEPARATE STRUCTURE, IF YOU WILL.
WE HAVE MANY TENANTS AROUND FOR COST REASONS.
WE DON'T MAKE THEM COMBINE SERVICES AT THE GUTTER BECAUSE WE REALIZE THAT MANY TIMES TENANT SERVICES, UM, THAT WE MIGHT COMBINE IT ONE TIME, TIME AROUND, THEY'RE GONNA SPLIT IT BACK UP.
SO WE, THAT COST, THAT'S KIND OF A DIFFERENT SITUATION.
SO WE DON'T ALLOW THIS NOW OR WE DO KIND OF IN, IN CERTAIN INSTANCES.
IT, IT IS ALLOWED, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO IT.
UH, SPECIAL CONDITIONS, SPECIAL OCCUPANCIES CAPACITY REQUIREMENTS, UH, THE DOCUMENTED SAFE SWITCH, WERE PRETTY SPECIFIC ON ASKING WHAT THAT IS.
WE DID, IF THEY WANTED TO DO THIS, WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS SOMEBODY ON SITE THAT WOULD BE AWARE OF HAVING THE MULTIPLE FEEDERS.
UM, THERE ARE SOME CERTAIN EXAMPLES AROUND TOWN THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE LICENSED INDIVIDUALS ON STAFF AND THEY'RE CERTAINLY AWARE OF IT AND THEY HAVE A PROCEDURE THEY FOLLOW TO
YEAH, THE THING IS, I LOOK AT THIS AT, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT AT UH, 2, 2 5 30 A C D E F AND IT GIVES VERY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR WHERE THIS, WHERE A MULTIPLE FEEDER WOULD BE APPROPRIATE, BUT B, IT'S A LITTLE DIS DISCO UNCOMFORTABLE AND DISCONCERTING.
AND SO AT THIS POINT, FOR ME PERSONALLY, I'M, I'M INCLINED TO, TO AGREE WITH STAFF THAT WE JUST SIMPLY DON'T, UH, ADOPT B YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND THAT IF THROUGH LIVING WITH THIS DOCUMENT MOVING FORWARD, IF, UH, IN THE FUTURE IT, SOMEBODY CAN BRING TO US AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE THIS WOULD BE BENEFICIAL AND, AND QUIET OUR CONCERNS.
AND I COULD SAY WE COULD ADOPT IT IN A, IN A FUTURE VERSION.
I I UNDERSTAND THE, UH, THE, UH, SAFETY CONCERN.
UH, THERE IS AN ECONOMIC, UH, CONCERN, UM, THAT THERE WOULD, THERE COULD BE APPLICATIONS WHERE THIS WOULD BE BENEFICIAL ECONOMICALLY TO A PROJECT, UM, WHERE YOU WERE GOING FROM A, AN ADJACENT BUILDING TO A NEW BUILDING WITH TWO ELECTRIC ROOMS. AND SO THERE'S, THERE IS SOME COST THERE.
UM, SO AS A DESIGNER, I LIKE, I LIKE THE EXCEPTION YOU GUYS COULD TAKE A VOTE ON IT.
WHAT THE
SO PART PART OF THE CONCERN WOULD BE THAT, UM, I'VE GOT MULTIPLE FEEDERS UP TO SIX AS AS B ALLOWS AT THIS AT THIS JUNCTURE.
AND I GO IN AND MAYBE I TURN OFF TWO, MAYBE EVEN THREE, BUT I'VE STILL GOT THREE OR FOUR MM-HMM.
BUT I'M BRINGING SIX CIRCUITS BUILDING BASED ON ON B.
UM, I CAN TELL YOU A SINGLE FEEDER GOING OVER THERE IS GONNA BE MORE COST EFFECTIVE THAN MULTIPLE FEEDERS.
YOU'RE STILL GONNA NEED THE SIX SWITCHES AT ONE LOCATION, WHETHER IT BE AT LOCATION A OR LOCATION B, SO YOU'RE NOT SAVING ANYTHING THERE.
[02:05:01]
UM, SO IN MY MIND WHERE THIS REALLY COMES INTO PLAY IS IF I'VE GOT AN EXISTING FACILITY THAT'S GOT ONE FEEDER OR TWO FEEDERS AND I WANT TO ADD ADDITIONAL FEEDERS RATHER THAN UPSIZING THE CURRENT FEEDER AND THEN GOING FROM THERE, THAT TO ME, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THIS PRIMARILY COMES INTO PLAY AND WHERE THE COST WOULD BE THE OTHER DIRECTION AT THAT POINT.DID IT ALSO COME INTO PLAY IF YOU HAD, LET'S SAY A BIG WAREHOUSE BUILDING THAT YOU HAD EQUIPMENT IN, SO YOU HAD THE, ALL THE DISCONNECTS IN THAT ONE BUILDING RIGHT THEN AND THERE, AND THEN YOU DECIDE TO BUILD A OUTBUILDING TO MOVE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE OR WAREHOUSE NEXT DOOR WHERE YOU COULD REUSE AND RELOCATE THAT TO SOMEWHERE ELSE? SO IF I, SO IF I, I'VE GOT ONE MAIN, MAIN WAREHOUSE THAT'S FULLY FITTED UP AND I'M GONNA BUILD A SECOND SMALLER BUILDING ADJACENT TO IT OR IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO IT, UM, THAT MY SERVICE RIGHT NOW IS CURRENTLY LARGE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE THAT BUILDING, THEN I WOULD ADD A FEEDER FROM THAT TO GO OVER TO THAT OTHER BUILDING.
CHANCES ARE THAT EQUIPMENT IS NOT GONNA BE OF SUFFICIENT SIZE AND HAVE SUFFICIENT SPARE SPACE TO ADD SIX FEEDERS, BUT IT COULD EASILY HAVE SPACE TO ADD ONE TO GET TO THAT NEW BUILDING.
AND THEN I, AGAIN, I CAN DISTRIBUTE IT ONCE I GET THERE.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK THROUGH DIFFERENT SCENARIOS.
NOT EVERYBODY'S DOING THE SAME THING.
HOW ABOUT WE ADD IF APPROVED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL TO THE BEGINNING OF IT AND THEN SOMEBODY CAN MAKE THEIR CASE TO DO IT THAT WAY AND Y'ALL CAN APPROVE IT SO IT'S ALLOWED YEAH, WELL THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO PULL A PER PERMIT AND SUBMIT DRAWINGS ANYWAY.
BUT IF WE LEAVE, IF THIS IS LEFT IN, THEN THE CITY'S GOTTA, DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF CHOICE BUT TO APPROVE IT IF SAY, YOU KNOW, SAY THEY BUILD A BUILDING AND ROOF FOUR FEEDERS, UNLESS YOU ADD THAT LANGUAGE AT THE BEGINNING, AMEND IT BY PUTTING THAT LANGUAGE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE SECTION TO ALLOW IT.
IF IT'S APPROVED BY THE BUILDING OFFICIAL.
OH WELL PERSONALLY HAVING A PLAN REVIEW AND NOW UPSTAIRS AND INSPECTIONS, UH, WE'D HAVE TO COME UP WITH ACTUALLY A CODE REASON TO BE ABLE TO TELL 'EM THEY CAN'T DO IT.
COULD YOU SPEAK INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT, VALERIE, OF, UH, YOUR CONCERN ON THE SAFETY SIDE OF, AND THE REASON YOU, YOU'D LIKE TO, UH, NOT ADOPT THIS AS AN ELECTRICIAN? UM, I AGREE WITH THE WAY RON, PERHAPS HE PROVIDED A BETTER EXAMPLE, BUT YES, I REALIZE YOU GROUP DISCONNECTS AT THE SECOND.
IT'S JUST FROM AN ELECTRICIAN STANDPOINT, THE SAFETY ISSUE, YOU'RE NOT, MAYBE YOU'RE NOT CERTAIN THAT YOU'VE GOT TURNED OFF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU'VE TURNED OFF THREE BREAKERS TO THE THREE FEEDERS THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF.
YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY WALKING IN COLD TO THAT BUILDING THAT'S NEVER SERVICED, IT NEVER WORKED ON IT, AND HE THINKS EVERYTHING'S OFF AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, HE RUNS INTO A JUNCTION BOX DOWNSTREAM FROM WHATEVER PANEL SOMETHING FEEDS FROM AND IT'S STILL LIVE.
I JUST THINK THERE'S ALREADY SO MANY EXCEPTIONS AND SITUATIONS THAT IT IS ALLOWED, BUT I DON'T WANNA JUST ARBITRARILY ALLOW THIS ON REGARDLESS OF JUST WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTION OF ANY TYPE.
YOUR AN EXPLANATION IS WHY THEY ADDED THIS TO THE CODE.
I'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE C M P AND FIND OUT THEY DON'T.
OH, VALERIE RON'S LOOKING IN THE ANALYSIS OF CHANGES NOW AND SEE IF IT'S IN THERE.
THERE WERE ONLY SO MANY BOOKS LUGGAGE.
SO
I WAS THINKING OF A DIFFERENT EXAMPLE.
SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA PULL AWAY MY ARGUMENT AGAINST THAT MM-HMM.
AND I THINK LON IN, IN THE INSTANCES YOU, THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED.
WE JUST HAVE QUALIFIED PERSONNEL ON SITE CIDER ARE AWARE OF THAT SITUATION.
SO, BUT IF IT'S NOT ALLOWED IN THE CODE, HOW CAN
[02:10:01]
YOU ALLOW IT? IT IS ALLOWED IN THE CODE CONDITIONS.UM, AND ONE OF THEM IS IN FACT SWITCHING PROCEDURES.
UM, WE DO HAVE SOME PLACES AROUND TOWN.
UM, SOUTHWEST RESEARCH, I BELIEVE IS ONE OF 'EM.
THEY HAVE MULTIPLE BUILDINGS THERE, THOSE DISCONNECTING TO BE IN ANOTHER BUILDING AND NOT THE BUILDING THAT SERVES.
SO, BUT THEY HAVE ALL, IF Y'ALL THINK IT SHOULD BE OUT AND NOBODY HAS A REASON, I JUST SAY WE TAKE IT OUT.
THAT'S THE, UNLESS THERE'S A YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY THE ANALYSIS OF CHANGE REALLY DOESN'T GIVE US A REASON AS TO WHY IT WAS PUT IN.
IT TOUCHES ON A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT.
THE, THE ONE THING THAT THAT STILL MAKES ME NERVOUS ABOUT THIS IS, IS THERE WAS ALREADY EXCEPTIONS THAT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.
YOU KNOW, THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS, A SPECIAL OCCUPANCY C CAPACITY D, DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS, E AND THEN DOCUMENTED SWITCHING PROCEDURES F THAT ALLOW FOR A MULTIPLE FEEDER ENVIRONMENT.
UM, THIS ONE, THE, I I'M JUST REAL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE WAY IT'S WORDED BECAUSE THE ONLY THING THAT STIPULATES IS IT HAS TO ORIGINATE IN THE SAME PANEL BOARD, SWITCHBOARD OR OTHER DISTRIBUTION EQUIPMENT.
SO THEN THAT LEAVES IT WIDE OPEN TO DO IT ANYTIME SOMEBODY SO CHOOSES.
AND THAT'S THE PART THAT MAKES ME NERVOUS.
IF THIS WAS, UH, A REQUIREMENT THAT'S REFERENCED, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DO A C, D, E OR F THAT YOU SHALL FOLLOW THESE RULES, THE SAME E SAME EQUIPMENT, I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH IT, BUT IT DOESN'T, IT'S A STANDALONE BY ITSELF.
AND, AND THAT'S WHERE MY ANGINA COMES FROM, IS MY, MY DISCOMFORT IS THAT IT, IT PRETTY MUCH NEGATES THE OTHER ONES.
YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WHENEVER YOU TAKE IT OUT LIKE Y ONE.
SO THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO APPROVE STAFF'S PROPOSAL TO STRIKE THIS SECTION.
I WILL ASK IF WE CAN SAY THIS FOR NEXT TIME BECAUSE I FAILED TO INCLUDE A COUPLE OTHER SECTIONS OF TWO 30, UM, THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE AMENDMENTS ON.
SO THESE ARE NOT SPECIFICS TO THOSE SECTIONS, BUT THEY'RE ALL PART OF ARTICLE TWO 30.
YOU GUYS GOOD WITH THAT? SO I, ITEM 39, WE'LL TABLE FOR NE NEXT TIME AND UNLESS YOU GUYS WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT SPECIFICALLY RIGHT NOW.
THE NEXT ITEM NUMBER 40 FOR SECTION 2 20 44.
DID I GET THAT RIGHT? WE WENT BACKWARDS.
I THINK THAT MIGHT'VE BEEN TWO FOUR, IT WAS PROBABLY MY FAULT.
IT ALL THEY DID WAS ADD, UH, TYPE T C TO CABLE TRAY FOR SERVICES.
AND WHAT SECTION DO YOU THINK THAT IS, VALERIE? IT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S TWO 30.42 30, YEAH, TWO 30 POINT 44 CABLE TRAYS AND IT LISTS, RIGHT, SIX DIFFERENT CABLE TYPES.
SS, E M I, MC I G S CONDUCTORS ONE ON LARGER AND T C E R K.
SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT SAME STATE LAW DEAL WITH THIS ONE THE SECOND SENTENCE? IT WOULD, SO AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE AN AMENDMENT THAT WE CAN'T, UM, THEN I'D LIKE TO RECOMMEND WE TAKE THAT LAST PART OUT.
YEAH, RECOMMEND THAT WHAT MARK, WE TAKE THE LAST PART OF THAT STAFF RECOMMENDATION OUT.
SO WE ARE PROPOSING TO ADOPT THAT AS WRITTEN A MINOR CHANGE OR A CHANGE, I WON'T SAY MINOR.
AND FOR JUST FOR UH, CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, THIS PARTICULAR ONE PER THE N E C HAD A PHASE IN PERIOD AND SO IT DOESN'T BECOME EFFECTIVE UNTIL, UH, JANUARY 1ST.
IS ABOUT WHEN WE WILL BE IMPLEMENTING ENFORCEMENT OF THE, OF THE CODES, UPDATED CODES.
[02:15:01]
OKAY.LAST ITEM HERE, ARTICLE TWO 30 POINT 67 FOR SURGE PROTECTION.
WE'RE PROPOSING TO ADOPT THIS NEW SECTION AS WRITTEN.
IS THERE, UH, SOMEBODY THAT CAN DESCRIBE WHAT THIS ENTAILS? UH, I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN OUT DOING A FEW INSPECTIONS AND I'VE ACTUALLY SEEN SOME, UH, HOME BUILDERS OR ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS ALREADY DOING THIS.
UM, IT'S, IT WAS JUST ANOTHER SERVICE PANEL.
BUT ON A 1000 UNIT APARTMENT COMMUNITY, WHICH ARE DWELLING UNITS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A HUGE NUMBER WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.
SO I WOULD ASK THAT THIS GET TABLED UNTIL SOMEBODY CAN TELL US INSTEAD OF THE YES.
AND THE COST IS HOW MUCH, IF YOU COULD, I MEAN, IS IT $5, $1, 1000? YEAH, SO IT'S GONNA BE, IT'S, IT'S GONNA VARY DEPENDING ON SERVICE SIZE TO TO, TO START WITH.
BUT UM, IRONICALLY, MY SON ASKED ME ABOUT THIS ONE HERE ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO.
SO I DID, DID A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH.
UM, IT, I WANNA SAY THEY WERE RUNNING WITHOUT THE ENCLOSURE, UH, LESS THAN $200 A PIECE FOR THE S P D FOR A 200 AMP SIDE SERVICE.
AND WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU HAVE TO PUT WITH IT? SO THAT'S 200 FOR THE PART.
HOW MUCH FOR THE LABOR? SO IF IT'S AN SO IF, IF IT'S AN, IF YOU BUY IT WHEN YOU INSTALL THE ORIGINAL PANEL MM-HMM.
OKAY THEN, THEN IT CAN BE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE PANEL WHERE IT'S PRE-WIRED, YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING, IT'S JUST OCCUPIES THE SPACE IN THE PANEL.
SO THE PANEL WOULD BE, THAT PANEL WOULD BE $200 MORE.
IT'S JUST, YEAH, HOW EXPENSIVE IS IT? IT SOUNDS EXPENSIVE.
I, I WONDER WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WE'RE SOLVING? OKAY, SO YOU, SO YOU'RE, SO THE THING THING TO KEEP IN MIND WITH YOUR SPDS IS THAT COVERS, UH, A LIGHTNING STRIKE COULD BE OKAY, AN ISSUE IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER VOLTAGE ANOMALIES OR YOU HAVE A SPIKE, IT'LL HELP PROTECT THE, THE, THE HOME AND WITH ALL THE ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT THAT'S GETTING PUT IN THE HOMES.
NOW, THAT'S WHY THEY ADDED THIS TO THE N E C.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, PROTECT YOUR TVS, PROTECTS YOUR MICROWAVES, PROTECTS YOUR, UH, COMPUTERS, YOU KNOW, YOU NAME IT.
I MEAN, AND, AND I UNDERSTAND AND YOU KNOW, THAT THOSE THINGS ARE WORTH PROTECTING, BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GONE A LONG TIME WITH ELECTRONICS WITHOUT THESE EXTRA $200 PER DWELLING SURGE PROTECTORS.
UM, AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, AT A TIME WHEN HOUSING COSTS ARE, ARE RISING THE WAY THEY ARE, THIS SEEMS TO ME LIKE SOMETHING THAT, UM, MIGHT BE WORTHY OF, OF, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERING NOT, NOT, NOT ENACTING, UH, BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, IF WE DO THE COST BENEFIT, IT'S LIKE WE ALWAYS SAY, RIGHT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD MANDATE THAT EVERY DWELLING IS BUILT OUTTA CONCRETE AND COMPLETELY FIRE RETARDANT, RIGHT? AND, AND THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD SOLVE A PROBLEM OF FIRES.
BUT IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE TO DO THAT.
AND OBVIOUSLY THIS ISN'T THAT EXTREME THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT I THINK THIS $200 A POP IS, IS NOT, NOT INSIGNIFICANT.
WELL, AND I'D BE BE WILLING TO GO OUT ON A LIMB AND SAY THAT I'LL BET YOU THAT A LOT OF YOUR HOME BUILDERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY INSTALLING THESE NOW ARE USING IT AS A SELLING.
AND, AND IN THAT CASE, GREAT, YOU KNOW, LET THE MARKET DO ITS JOB IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S ASKED FOR.
BUT IF YOU'RE REBUILDING A SERVICE AND HAVE TO PULL PERMIT, UM, AND WOULD THIS BE TRIGGERED? YES.
YEAH, IF, I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON, ON HOW THE CITY INTERPRETS, YOU KNOW, WHEN DOES NEW REQUIREMENTS KICK IN? SO IF I'M, IF I'VE GOT MY HOME AND I'M SIMPLY REBUILDING THE SERVICE, I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE, WOULD IT KICK IN OR DO I HAVE TO DO, DO SOMETHING MORE SUBSTANTIAL BEYOND THAT? YEAH, IF YOU PUT IN, IF, IF FOR EXAMPLE, ON A HOME THAT THE SERVICE IS NO GOOD AND YOU HAVE TO GO BUILD THE NEW SERVICE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MEET THE CODE AS IT, THE NEW CODE.
PART D DOES SPECIFICALLY TOUCH ON THE REPLACEMENT PIECE.
SO CAN WE TABLE THIS AND SOMEBODY JUST REACH OUT TO THE HOME BUILDERS
[02:20:02]
AND JUST ASK THEM IF THEY'RE PUTTING THIS STUFF IN AND HOW COMMON IS IT? AND YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THEY PAYING? YOU COULD PROBABLY ASK JACK TMORE.CAN WE TAKE A VOTE TO PUT HIM ON THIS COMMITTEE? MAYBE
UH, THAT'S LIDDELL'S, UH, MO RIGHT THERE.
SO THIS WOULD GO ON THE INDIVIDUAL EXTERIOR BREAKER PANEL? CORRECT.
IS THIS AN IN, DOES THE SURGE PROTECTOR GO INSIDE OR OUTSIDE? OUTSIDE.
SO FOR A BIG COMMERCIAL BUILDING, HOW MUCH IS THAT? $50,000 FOR THE, WELL THIS PARTICULAR SECTION IS DWELLING UNITS.
SO YOU GET YOUR CHOICE OF SPENDING 200 ON THE OUTSIDE OR SPENDING $15 PER PLUG TO PUT THE LITTLE, UH, TO ANSWER A QUICK QUESTION ON A SERVICE PLACEMENT BECAUSE IT'S BEEN DAMAGED OR IT'S, UH, OUTMODED OR SOMETHING.
IF IT'S A, LIKE FOR LIKE IF THEY'RE GONNA UPGRADE A SERVICE FOR A CERTAIN REASON, THEN WE WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE IT.
DO YOU WANNA TABLE THIS ONE FOR SOME FURTHER INVESTIGATION OR CONTINUE DISCUSSION? YEAH, I WOULD LIKE IT TABLED UNTIL YOU GET THAT INFORMATION.
WELL THAT WE ARE RIGHT ON TIME, YOU GUYS.
UM, SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, I WANT TO IDENTIFY THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE TABLED.
UM, AND I'LL DO THAT BY THE ITEM NUMBERS.
SO I HAVE, UH, ITEM NUMBER 6, 10, 12, 13, 39, AND 42.
NUMBER 6, 10, 12, 13, 39 AND 42.
I DON'T THINK WE WERE ON THAT 1, 2, 10 0.5 C.
DON'T BELIEVE WE WERE STRIKING OUT ANY, UM, ANY APPROVED MATERIALS.
BUT I'LL ADD THAT ONE IN THERE, JUDGE.
11
ANY DISCUSSION? ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE.
THOSE IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING THE ITEMS LISTED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE THAT CRYSTAL READ OFF, SAY AYE.
[02:25:02]
THANK YOU CHAIR.JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UM, SO THAT'S AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE.
WE DO HAVE ON THE AGENDA, JUST IN CASE SOMEBODY WANTED TO COME AND TALK ABOUT EITHER THE I R C, UM, OR THE CHAPTER 10 WHEN IT COMES TO LICENSING OF ELECTRICIANS AND SIGN ELECTRICIANS.
I GUESS IF CHAIR WOULD LIKE TO TABLE THOSE AS WELL.
IT DOESN'T REQUIRE VOTE, BUT WE CAN JUST FORMALLY PUT IT ON THERE THAT WE'LL TABLE THOSE TILL NEXT TIME.
UH, SO THAT WILL CLEAR ALL THE ITEMS TODAY.
[ Director's Report ]
HAVE LEFT IS A DIRECTOR'S REPORT AND SOMETHING WE'RE DOING, UH, ONCE AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL BEING RECORDED, UH, TRANSLATED AS WELL.SO THIS WILL BE ON THE PUBLIC RECORD.
ANYBODY CAN COME BACK AND WATCH THIS.
SO WE HAVE THIS INFORMATION OUT THERE FOR THE PUBLIC.
IF ANYBODY'S WATCHING THIS AND WANTS TO GET MORE INVOLVED WITH THE REST OF THIS PROCESS.
UH, WE DO HAVE A WEBSITE SET UP FOR THIS CODE ADOPTION PROCESS THAT HAS ALL THE DIFFERENT SCHEDULED MEETINGS, UH, THE PROCESS INVOLVED WITH THAT, UH, CONTACT INFORMATION IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT ANY COMMENTS, ANY OF THE BOARDS OR COMMITTEES THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS.
UH, THIS ALSO IS THE LINK TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK AND WATCH ANY OF THE EXISTING VIDEOS WE HAVE FOR ANY OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES AND IF THEY HAVE ANY COMMENTS THEY WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT TO STAFF FOR ANY OF THE DIFFERENT CODES AND, UH, COMMITTEES THAT WE HAVE, THEY CAN SEND IT TO THE B R F C A A B@SANANTONIO.GOV.
AND THAT CONCLUDES EVERYTHING FROM STAFF.
IF CHAIR WOULD LIKE TO ADJOURN, I THINK THAT INCLUDES OUR MEETING.
YEAH, IF I'D ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ADJOURN.