[00:00:01]
I'M CRYSTAL GONZALEZ, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.WE ARE READY TO GET STARTED WITH OUR BUILDING RELATED AND FIRE CODES, APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD MEETING WITH THE PLUMBING COMMITTEE.
WE HAVE A QUICK MESSAGE FOR SPANISH INTERPRETATION.
[ Roll Call ]
NEXT, WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL.UH, JUST A REMINDER, UM, PLEASE USE YOUR MIC SO WE CAN, UH, MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE HEARD AND RECORDED.
WE ARE RECORDING THESE, UM, CODE COMMITTEE MEETINGS SO WE CAN BROADCAST THEM FOR OH, THANK YOU, UM, FOR THE PUBLIC.
UM, AND IF YOU MAKE A MOTION OR SPEAK, UH, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.
[ Approval of Minutes ]
SO, THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE BUILDING RELATED AND FIRE CODE APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE ON MARCH 11TH, 2022.I'LL NEED A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE LAST, UH, MEETING'S.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE, UH, PROPOSALS PROPOSED AMENDMENTS FROM LAST MEETING.
WELL, I BELIEVE THE MEETING MINUTES WERE SENT.
UM, UH, SO ROBERT JONES MADE THE MOTION AND MARK ROSS WITH A SECOND.
[ Public Comments ]
UH, NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT.SO WE DID, UM, OR THAT'S NOT AN AGENDA ITEM, BUT WE DO HAVE A COMMENT THAT WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO READ, UH, FOR YOU GUYS.
SO THIS, UM, I'LL READ THIS, UH, THAT WE RECEIVED THIS MORNING, THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PLUMBING AND MECHANICAL OFFICIALS, COMMONLY KNOWN AS I, A PMO, APPRECIATES THE OPPORTUNITY TO SUBMIT COMMENTS TO THE BUILDING RELATED AND FIRE CODE'S APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE FOUNDED IN 1926.
I ATMOS PRIMARY MISSION IS TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC'S HEALTH BY PROMOTING EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE PLUMBING AND MECHANICAL SYSTEMS. AS THE BOARD CONTINUES ITS DISCUSSION ON THE ADOPTION OF A PLUMBING CODE, I ATMO WELCOMES THE OPPORTUNITY TO COLLABORATE AND PARTNER.
I ATMOS INDUSTRY LEADING SUITE OF SERVICES, CODES AND STANDARDS, PROVIDE THE PLUMBING EXPERTISE TO HELP SAN ANTONIO REALIZE THEIR SUSTAINABILITY GOALS.
WE'VE BEEN LONGTIME PARTNERS WITH SAN ANTONIO AND THROUGHOUT TEXAS AND WANNA CONTINUE TO BE A RESOURCE FOR THIS IMPORTANT COMMITTEE TO BEST SERVE THE INTERESTS OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
ONE EXAMPLE IS OUR 2021 UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE, OR THE U P C DEVELOPED WITH INPUT FROM INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS, INCLUDING INSTALLERS, INSPECTORS, PUBLIC OR BUILDING OFFICIALS, AND ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH EXPERTS INCLUDED IN THE U P C IS THE FIRST AND ONLY WATER DEMAND CALCULATOR, A NEW TOOL THAT DETERMINES PROPER SIZE, PROPER PIPE SIZING BASED UPON TODAY'S LOWER FLOW RATES AND MODERN CONSTRUCTION.
NOT ONLY DOES THIS TOOL GENERATE SIGNIFICANT CONSTRUCTION COST SAVINGS, BUT IT ALSO REDUCES THE CARBON FOOTPRINT OF THE STRUCTURE.
NO OTHER PLUMBING CODE INCLUDES THESE INNOVATIONS AND ASSOCIATED COST SAVINGS.
INSTEAD, THEY RELY ON NEARLY 100 YEAR OLD DATA TO SIZE THEIR SYSTEMS. WE LOOK FORWARD TO COLLABORATING WITH THE BOARD IN THE FUTURE TO DEVELOP SOLUTIONS TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF SAN ANTONIO RESIDENTS.
BEST THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE COMMENTS.
SO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS TO VOTE TO ADD ANY NEW MEMBERS TO THE PLUMBING CODE COMMITTEE.
I DON'T SEE ANY NEW MEMBERS HERE.
[ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items ]
AND, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, DISCUSS DISCUSSION OF THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE[00:05:01]
AND PROPOSED CHANGES TO CURRENT AMENDMENTS.SORRY, ON THAT ONE WITH U P C, THAT, THAT IS A CORRECT STATEMENT.
UM, ALL THE, ALL THE I P C DOES SUFFER FROM, I'LL SAY AN OVERSIZING BECAUSE WE'RE STILL USING FIXTURE UNITS FROM LITERALLY A HUNDRED YEARS AGO WHEN TOILETS WERE FIVE PLUS GALLONS PER FLUSH.
SO IT, IT IS A PIECE THAT IT DOES CAUSE OVERSIZING.
UM, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE I'LL I'LL SAY IN CALIFORNIA, SOMETIMES LABS ARE DOWN AT A QUARTER OR A THIRD GALLON PER MINUTE.
YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT FOR WATER EFFICIENT FIXTURES AND DOWNSIZE PIPING.
SO IT IS ONE THING I WOULD SAY AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE THAT WE OUGHT TO LOOK INTO OR AT LEAST RECOMMEND BACK TO THE I P C, THAT THEY NEED TO START SERIOUSLY LOOKING AT GETTING RID OF THE OLD FIXTURE UNITS AND GOING WITH A MORE MODERN INTERPRETATION FOR PIPE SIZING.
AND THAT'S ON DOMESTIC HAND SEWER.
WE END UP WITH OVERSIZED PIPING.
DID, UH, I IMO HAPPEN TO SEND YOU THAT CALCULATOR? NO, THEY DID NOT.
DID HAVE YOU SEEN THAT CALCULATOR FROM U P C? MAYBE WE CAN USE IT.
MAYBE YOU CAN PUT IT IN YOUR AMENDMENT TO REFERENCE THAT IF YOU WANT.
AND MAYBE THAT WOULD MOTIVATE I C C IF, IF THAT WOULD, UH, UH, UM, UH, GREG HAS A ISSUE WITH FACT OF THE WATER PIPE SIZING ON THAT METER DEAL.
SO, UH, IT MAY BE A GOOD COMPROMISE.
THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT THE CITY SHOULD GO BACK AND LOOK AT AND SEE IF WE SHOULD ALLOW AN AMENDMENT TO CONSIDER THAT AN EQUIVALENT TO WHAT'S IN THE I P C.
WE ALSO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY, WE COULD DEVELOP AN INFORMATIONAL BULLETIN KIND OF USING THAT CALCULATOR AS BEST PRACTICES, UM, AND MAKE THAT AVAILABLE.
SO EVEN IF IT DOESN'T, UM, WE DON'T PUT IT IN THE AMENDMENTS.
WE SAY THIS IS, UM, UH, AN ACCEPTABLE YEAH, BUT WOULDN'T YOU HAVE TO SOMEBODY HAVE TO SAY THAT IF YOU DO THAT, ARE YOU ON, IT'S GOING TO, WOULDN'T YOU HAVE TO SAY IF YOU DO THAT, IT'S GOING TO BE APPROVED WHEN IT'S SUBMITTED? BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT REFERENCED IN THE AMENDMENT, YOU HAVE TO GO WITH THE I P C, THE PLUMBING.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ALLUDING TO.
MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT AN AMENDMENT THAT WOULD CON THAT WOULD CONSIDER THAT CHAPTER OR SOMETHING THAT CALCULATOR EQUIVALENT.
'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THOSE ONES, LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, OUR LABORATORIES ARE IN A LOW ENOUGH FLOW THAT YOU CAN DANG NEAR GET, GET AWAY WITH A A QUARTER INCH LINE TO 'EM.
I KNOW NOBODY THAT'S HERE, SEE, NOBODY WOULD EVER DO IT.
BUT IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE LITERALLY GETTING TO THOSE POINTS WHERE, WHERE WE CAN GO SMALLER ON SOME OF THAT.
AND ON HOT WATER PIPE SIZING WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET HOT WATER TO A FIXTURE, YOU KNOW, A QUARTER OR THREE EIGHTHS IS, IS A LOT LESS VOLUME TO GET MOVING DOWN THE LINE TO GET HOT WATER TO A FIXTURE IN A TIMELY FASHION.
SO IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING I'D JUST ASK THE CITY TO, TO LOOK AT A LITTLE BIT MORE.
UH, MIKE MORALES, CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR.
I KNOW THE U P C HAS AGAIN, COME UP IN TRYING TO MIRROR THE I P C.
SO I THINK THE CODES ARE TRYING TO CATCH UP WITH EACH OTHER, BUT I THINK THAT'S A GOOD DISCUSSION.
SOMETHING WE'LL LOOK INTO SPENCER RAMSDALE TOO.
YOU GOTTA ALSO PUT INTO ACCOUNT THE FIXTURES THEMSELVES.
A LOT OF MANUFACTURERS ARE GONNA HAVE A HALF INCH VALVE.
THEY'RE GONNA REQUIRE A HALF INCH LINE TO IT AND SO FORTH.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING WITH THE INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE TOO AS WELL, YOU KNOW, AND GETTING THE INDUSTRY IN HERE AND ALL THE MANUFACTURERS TO LOOK AT THAT, BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE, I MEAN, IN SAN ANTONIO THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, IF WE UNDERSTOOD THE CODE, BUT AS PEOPLE COME IN AND OTHER CITIES SURROUNDING CITIES IN THERE, YOU KNOW, TO WRAP THEIR HEAD AROUND THAT ASPECT OF IT.
SO WE'LL, WE'LL GO BACK AND, AND LOOK AT THAT CALCULATOR.
SO WE ARE READY TO GET STARTED WITH REVISITING SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT WE HAD TABLED FROM, UH, MEETING ONE AND TWO.
AND GEORGE, YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH, UH, JUMPING TO, UM, ITEM 44 FOR CARBONATED BEVERAGE DISPENSERS.
SO THIS IS IN REGARDS TO OUR CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT THAT CHANGES, UM, THE STANDARD FOR BACKFLOW PREVENTERS FOR CARBONATED BEVERAGES.
[00:10:03]
YEAH.SO THIS, THIS IS ONE THAT I WANTED TO, TO TALK ABOUT AND, AND BRING UP A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON.
UM, MY UNDERSTANDING OF, OF DIGGING INTO THIS QUICKLY IS THE, UH, THE 10 22 DEVICE HAS STAINLESS STEEL ON THE SECOND CHECK, AND IT'S VENTED BETWEEN THE CHECKS.
SO IT IS TESTABLE IF IT'S LEAKING OUT OF THE VENT, IT'S FAILED.
UM, IT'S A LOW LOW RISK DEVICE.
UM, AND I BELIEVE SOMEBODY HAD TOLD ME WHEN I WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS, UM, THE LAST, OVER THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS, THAT, UH, COPPER AND CARBONATED BEVERAGES ARE A, ARE A BAD MIX.
SO IF WE SWITCH THAT TO A, A 10 15, UM, WE CAN PROBABLY ACTUALLY BE INCREASING THE RISK BY, BY ACTUALLY USING A, WHAT COULD BE A BRASS CHECK, YOU KNOW, DOUBLE CHECK.
UM, AGAIN, I, I JUST DON'T SEE A REASON FOR US TO AMEND THAT.
I THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE IT ALONE.
UM, ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? WHAT'S REQUIRED NOW? RIGHT NOW WE REQUIRE THE BACKFLOW PREVENTER TO MEET THE STANDARD FOUR A S S E 10 15 MARK, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UH, STATEMENTS OR ANY CONCERNS? NO, I MEAN, OR YOU WANT TO BRING UP AND THEN WE CAN, WE'LL TALK ABOUT, I, I JUST THINK IF IT'S IN THE CODE AND IT'S NOT A PROBLEM, WE SHOULD LEAVE IT AND NOT MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE NOBODY'S GONNA GO BACK THERE BECAUSE THOSE ARE LOCATED BEHIND A CABINET, UNDER A CABINET.
AND IF THERE'S A WAY TO MAKE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S GONNA LEAK, YOU'RE GONNA REPLACE IT.
SO, UH, THERE'S A GENTLEMAN IN THE, IN THE, UH, SITTING OUT HERE THAT WE BROUGHT IN TO EXPLAIN, UH, SOME THINGS ABOUT HOW WE HAVE TO FOLLOW BACKFLOW.
UH, AND, UH, IF, IF WE CAN GIVE HIM THE FLOOR, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, AND THEN MAYBE HE CAN HELP US THINK IT THIS ALL THROUGH.
UH, HE HAS, HE WORKED IN THROUGH SAWS WITH THEIR BACKFLOW PREVENTION, UH, SET UP.
HE'S ALSO BEEN PRESIDENT OF THE A B P A, UH, LOCAL AND I BELIEVE NATIONAL, RIGHT? SO, UH, SO HE'S BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN THIS, UH, WHOLE BACKFLOW PROCESS AND THE MAIN CONCERNS.
UH, SO BRUCE, IF, UH, WE CAN JUST STAY IN THE PROCESS WITH THE CARBONATED AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR 10 22 10 FIFTEENS AND YOUR RPCS.
UH, AND OBVIOUSLY HOW THE STATE LOOKS AT IT AND WHO FOLLOWS WHAT AND WHO'S ESTABLISHING THESE RULES.
UH, I WANT TO THANK THE COMMITTEE VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ON THIS.
I, UH, WORKED FOR SAN ANTONIO WATER SYSTEM FOR 28 YEARS, 25 OF THOSE YEARS.
WERE WITHIN THE BACKFLOW PREVENTION PROGRAM.
I'M ALSO ON THE STATE COMMITTEE WITH A CROSS CONNECTION CONTROL WORK GROUP, UH, 46 YEARS AND GENERAL CONTRACTING UTILITY CONSTRUCTION.
UH, TO PUT THIS ALL INTO PERSPECTIVE FOR YOU GUYS, THE 10 22 IS NOT A BACKFLOW PREVENTER, NO MATTER HOW YOU DESCRIBE IT.
UH, I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AS FAR AS TESTABLE.
IT IS NOT TESTABLE WITH THE CURRENT MEANS AND METHODS THAT'S ACCEPTED BY THE STATE.
T C E Q ACTUALLY GOVERNS WHAT GOES ON WITHIN BACKFLOW PREVENTION.
THAT FILTERS DOWN THROUGH THE WATER PURVEYOR.
SCOTT TIES HERE, ANDREW
AND WITHIN THE WRITINGS OF THE STATE, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A REDUCED PRESS PRINCIPLE, BACKFLOW PREVENTION ASSEMBLY ON THESE LINES.
IF YOU GO WAY BACK IN CODE CYCLES, A DOUBLE CHECK VALVE ASSEMBLY WAS ALLOWED BECAUSE IT GETS TESTED ANNUALLY.
THERE WAS NO WAY TO GET A VENT TO THIS THING WHERE IF, UH, AN RP AT THAT TIME WOULD INADVERTENTLY SPIT DRAIN WHATEVER THEY WERE CONCERNS ABOUT WATER BEING EVERYWHERE, RIGHT? SO AT THAT POINT, THEY WERE JUST
[00:15:01]
TRYING TO GET A BACKFLOW PREVENTION ASSEMBLY ON THERE.THE, UH, AND I DON'T WANT TO POINT OUT SPECIFICALLY COCA-COLA, BUT THE SODA WATER INDUSTRY, IF YOU WILL, PUSH THE IDEA OF HAVING THIS CHECK VALVE WITH THE VACUUM PUMP.
HOWEVER, THE VACUUM PUMP HAS A VERY SIMPLE POSSIBILITY OF OVERRIDING LINE PRESSURE.
SO NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL OF C O TWO GETTING BACK INTO THIS SYSTEM, IF THERE IS ANY COPPER S THAT WAS A CONCERN AS WELL.
AS FAR AS THE BACK FLIP PREVENTER ITSELF, BREAKING DOWN AND CREATING COPPER SULFIDE IS KINDA LIMITED.
IT'S MORE SO DUE TO THE FACT OF THE TYPE K COPPER THAT WAS USED.
I REALIZE IN THE INDUSTRY, WE'VE KIND OF WENT TO, YOU'VE GOT THE VINYL HOSE PIPING, YOU'VE GOT, UH, C P V C, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE PLASTIC PRODUCTS OUT THERE.
BUT I THINK WE'D BE OPENING UP PANDORA'S BOX IF WE WENT BACKWARDS IN WHAT WE'VE ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED SO FAR.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE REGULATIONS, WHICH SUPERSEDES THE I P C CODE, YOU HAVE TO ADHERE TO THE FACT OF WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRING AND WHAT THEY REQUIRE AS AN RP.
WE'RE STILL UNDER THAT BECAUSE WE'RE PUTTING IN A DOUBLE CHECK VALVE SIMPLY YES, A LOT OF THESE ARE INSTALLED INCORRECTLY.
HOWEVER, IF WE HELP OUR PLUMBING INSPECTORS DO A BETTER JOB OF UNDERSTANDING THESE INSTALLATIONS AND HOW THEY SHOULD BE DONE, IT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAVE TO GO DOWN THAT PATH.
SO WITH THAT SAID, I'LL ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS.
SO IS THE 10 22 PROHIBITED BY THE STATE? THE 10 20 TWOS NOT EVEN RECOGNIZED AS A BACKFLOW PREVENTER BY THE STATE.
SO WHEN YOU SAY BY PROHIBITED BY THE STATE, WHAT, WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT IS THE FACT THAT THE 10 22 IS NOT A TEST FULL BACKFLOW PREVENTER.
SO, BUT THAT'S THE STATE, THAT'S THE STATE WHICH THE STATE SUPERSEDES WHATEVER CODE CYCLE WE'RE IN IT, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
SO CRYSTAL, BASED UPON THE STATE LAW THAT WE TALKED ABOUT NIA LAST WEEK AND SEVERAL COMMITTEES WHERE THIS PRODUCT IS ALLOWED UNDER THE CODE, CAN WE MAKE THAT CHANGE? I KNOW YOU CAN SAY IN ADDITION TO YOU COULD ALLOW THIS, BUT BECAUSE THIS IS A SPECIFIED PRODUCT IN THE CODE THAT'S APPROVED, CAN YOU MAKE THAT CHANGE? UH, LET ME JUST MAKE A STATEMENT.
UH, BRUCE, UH, IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, WHO SETS THE RULES THAT SAS HAS TO FOLLOW FOR BACKFLOW? BECAUSE WE HAVE TO COMPLY TO, UH, SAS COMMITMENT TO FOLLOW THE BACKFLOW LAWS THAT ARE ESTABLISHED FOR TEXAS, AND THAT'S T C E Q.
HOWEVER, WHEN THE STATE PASSED A LAW AFTER THE ORIGINAL LAW WAS PASSED, THE MOST CURRENT LAW WOULD APPLY.
AND SO MY QUESTION GOES BACK TO THE STATE PASSED A LAW SAYS WE CANNOT, IF IT'S APPROVED IN THE CODE, WE CANNOT CHANGE.
SO IS THIS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WOULD'VE, AGAIN, THE T C T C E Q REQUIRES THAT A BACKFLOW PREVENTER BE TESTABLE.
IS THAT CORRECT? I MEAN, THAT'S CORRECT.
WHERE WE HAVE TO STAY BECAUSE SAS HAS TO COMPLY TO THE BACKFLOW PROGRAM THAT IS ESTABLISHED BY T C E Q.
HOWEVER, THE LEGISLATURE OVERRULES WHAT T E C Q RULES AND IF IT SAYS THAT ANYTHING THAT IS IN THE CODE CANNOT BE, WELL, WE'RE NOT ELIMINATING THE USE OF A BACKFLOW PREVENTER.
SO WE'RE JUST REQUIRING IT TO COMPLY WITH THE DIFFERENT STANDARD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S, UM, IF, IF THAT'S CROSSING THE LINE IN REGARDS TO THAT HOUSE BILL AND BUILDING MATERIALS.
YEAH, THE, THE, SO THE HOUSE BILL, AGAIN, THAT'S NOW, NOW LAW APPLIES TO, UM, UH, A MUNICIPALITY SPECIFICALLY.
[00:20:02]
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S WOULD BE AN INHERENT CONFLICT.IF, IF, IF, UM, YOU KNOW, A MODEL CODE A A ALLOWS IT, THEN, UH, THE CITY WILL ALLOW IT.
BUT IF THERE ARE SEPARATE, UM, REGULATIONS, UH, UNDER UNDER T C E Q, UH, THAT POSSIBLY CREATE A CONFLICT, THEN UH, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE, THE KIND OF THE CONFLICTS LANGUAGE.
UM, UH, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, AND, AND I, AGAIN, I, I'D HAVE TO KIND OF, UH, MAYBE LOOK AT IT TO SEE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT JUST BECAUSE OF THE, UM, THIS NEW LAW THAT, THAT SAYS, IF IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, IF A MODEL CODE IS ALLOWED, THE CITY CAN'T RESTRICT IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT NECESSARILY OVERRIDES ANYTHING THAT T C E Q, UM, YOU KNOW, MANDATES.
SO JOSEPH, YOU WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE, UH, CONTINUE WITH THE AMENDMENT THAT FOLLOWS THE STATE AT THIS POINT? YES.
UM, THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE MY, UH, RECOMMENDATION.
THEN I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO RECOMMEND THAT THE T D E Q GO BACK AND REVISIT, BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, T THEY'RE WRONG.
I MEAN, I'LL TAKE A, I'LL TAKE A MODEL CODE CODE OVER A STATE ORGANIZATION EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.
SO WHAT ENTITY CREATES, OR WHAT ENTITY DOES T C E Q REFER BACK TO FOR THEIR STANDARDS? E P A.
AND SO THAT GOES TO E P A EPA AND THE FOUNDATION OF, AND PROVIDES JURISDICTION TO T C E Q.
SO THEN YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT THE I P C IS IN CONFLICT WITH E P A? I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT.
SO I MEAN, I, I I I WILL ABSTAIN FROM THIS ONE BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH IT.
KNOWING THAT STATE LAW IS GONNA BE THE DRIVER, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE HEARING? I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK TO, TO, TO STATE LAW AND SAY YOU'RE PUTTING OUR PEOPLE AT RISK BECAUSE OF THIS.
WELL, THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IN CLOSING IS IT'S IRONIC THAT THIS HAS WORKED FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS IN SAN ANTONIO WITH A NON-ISSUE.
BUT YET THE SODA INDUSTRY HAS PUSHED THE FACT OF A NON TESTABLE ASSEMBLY.
UH, WHY WOULD WE WANT TO PUT OUR CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO? HOW MANY PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO DIED FROM THE NON TESTABLE ASSEMBLY IN THE WORLD? PARDON? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED FROM A NON TESTABLE ASSEMBLY IN THE WORLD? HOW MANY RECORDS WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE PROVIDED? I, I'LL TAKE ANY OF THEM.
YOU'VE GOT, WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO GET SOME TO YOU SPECIFICALLY.
BUT YOU CAN GO SPECIFICALLY TWO SAWS AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS, NUMEROUS DOCUMENTED RECORDS OF CARBONATED WATER GETTING BACK INTO THE WATER SYSTEM DUE TO THE FACT OF A FAILURE.
I WOULD APPRECIATE OF A NON TESTABLE BACKFIRE.
YEAH, I I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE TO SEE THOSE AS SPECIFIC TO CARBONATED BEVERAGES.
AND I KNOW WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT COFFEE POTS TOO, SO IF YOU GOT 'EM FOR COFFEE POTS KILLING PEOPLE, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THOSE AS WELL.
THE ONLY THING YOU'VE GOT DEALING WITH ON COFFEE POTS IS HUMAN ERROR.
HERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MECHANICAL FAILURE.
'CAUSE I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY RESEARCH ON THOSE.
SO I, OKAY, CRYSTAL, IF THEY CAN SEND IT TO YOU AND THEN THEY CAN FORWARD ON TO THE REST OF US OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I WOULD VERY MUCH, I'LL GLADLY GET THAT TO YOU.
AND CRYSTAL, WHILE WE'RE DOING THAT, CAN WE HAVE SOMEBODY REACH OUT TO T E C T C E Q AND FIND OUT IF THE STANDARD THAT'S IN THE MODEL CODE MEETS DOES MEET OR DOES NOT MEET WHATEVER RULES THEY HAVE IN ASKING THEM TO, HOW DOES THAT APPLY WITH THE NEW STATE LAW THAT PASSED? JUST, JUST FOR A LITTLE SHARED INFO THAT WAS ALSO SHARED WITH T C E Q, WITH THE, UH, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE WITH THE CODE.
AND THEY WERE EXTREMELY CONCERNED ABOUT IT.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THEY COULDN'T GET ANYBODY HERE ON SUCH SHORT NOTICE TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND THE MEETING, OR THEY PRETTY MUCH WOULD'VE TOLD YOU WHAT I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU.
WE, WELL, WE DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THE INFORMATION.
LIKE I SAID, THERE'S, THERE'S SOME DATE OUT THERE THAT I HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SEE OR FIND.
UH, NOT THAT I WAS LOOKING TERRIBLY HARD ON VACATION, BUT I DO APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN, EVEN THOUGH, YES, I KNOW WE'RE ARGUING, BUT I DO APPRECIATE THE
WELL, WE'RE NOT ARGUING, WE'RE DISCUSSING.
IT'S, UH, IT'S VERY PASSIONATE TO ME BECAUSE I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH IT WITH, WELL, WE'RE 32 YEARS AND TO SEE US GO BACKWARDS, THE REAL CONCERN, 'CAUSE THROUGHOUT SAN ANTONIO WITH ALL OF THE EATERIES THAT WE HAVE HERE IN TOWN, WE'RE PRETTY MUCH OPENING UP TELLING 'EM, OH, YOU BACKFILL FEDERAL BAILS.
YOU GOT A 10 22 OR A 10 15 THAT, THAT'S WORKING.
[00:25:01]
SAVVY LAWSUIT.UH, WAS ONE OF THE ARTICLES THAT, UH, UH, WERE BROUGHT IN TODAY, DID IT HAVE TO DO, DIDN'T IT HAVE TO DO WITH THIS, UH, SPECIFIC DEAL WHERE WE HAD THE CARBONATION BACKFLOW INTO HERE? IS THAT THE, THE, I GUESS THIS ONE, I CAN'T REMEMBER.
I READ ALL THREE OF 'EM LAST NIGHT.
BUT THAT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE FROM THE U S C.
I MEAN, GEORGE, MY, MY SUGGESTION IS, IS IS THAT IF T C E T C E Q DOES REQUIRE A BACKFLOW PREVENTER AND THE 10 22 DOES NOT MEET WHATEVER THEY REQUIRE, WE JUST GO WITH WHATEVER T C E Q SAYS TO STAY IN COMPLIANCE.
BUT IF THEY SAY EITHER ONE IS ACCEPTABLE, THEN WE CAN HAVE, YOU KNOW, THAT DISCUSSION.
BASICALLY, OUR HANDS ARE PRETTY WELL TIED.
UH, THE DEFINITION FOR BACKFLOW IS A TESTABLE BACKFLOW DEVICE, AND THE TID 22 DOES NOT COMPLY TO THAT.
THAT'S, THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE DEFINITION OF TESTABLE IS.
THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT'S CATCHING UP.
ED TCE, Q'S, UH, BRUCE, IS THERE A DEFINITION FOR TESTABLE? DO THEY DEFINE THEY THEY HAVE THAT WITHIN THE RULE.
AND, AND WHAT WE'LL DO IS, UH, I WAS REALLY HOPING DESHAWNA BLAKE COULD HAVE BEEN, HE WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE ALL THIS INFORMATION, BUT, UH, I'LL GLADLY EITHER RUN IT THROUGH MIKE OR WHO, WHOEVER YOU WANT ME TO GET IT TO.
AND THAT WAY YOU GUYS WILL HAVE IT WHILE YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE TO DISCUSS.
AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION IS, IF IT IS TESTABLE, ARE WE GONNA REQUIRE EVERYONE TO GO GET THAT TESTED ANNUALLY? THAT'S A REQUIREMENT.
WELL, AT THIS TIME, SAS PUTS OUT A NOTICE AND, AND REQUIRES CERTAIN DEVICES TO BE TESTED.
THE T C E Q HAS SHIFTED THE BURDEN TO THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER TO TEST.
IF HE DOES NOT TEST AND CONTAMINATION DOES BACKFLOW, HE'S HELD TOTALLY LIABLE.
SO, SO THE CITY HAS BEEN ABLE TO MOVE AND SAS HAS BEEN ABLE TO MOVE AWAY FROM THAT LIABILITY BY SHIFTING THE RESPONSIBILITY OF TESTING TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
BUT YET IT STILL HAS TO BE A TESTABLE DEVICE.
UH, SO DO WE, UH, WAIT FOR THE INFO TO BE SENT FOR, UH, Y'ALL TO REVIEW BEFORE I I GUESS WE HAVE TO TABLE AGAIN.
WELL, NO, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, IF THE STATE'S GONNA FORCE THAT AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HEARING, THEN IT, IT, IT CAN MOVE FORWARD.
IT'S JUST, LIKE I SAID, FOR ME, I DISAGREE WITH T E Q.
SO THEN FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I THINK I JUST ABSTAIN FROM VOTING ON THAT PARTICULAR ONE.
UH, MARK, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS? DO YOU WISH TO WAIT? NO.
IF, IF T C E Q SENDS US SOMETHING OR SOMEBODY FROM STAFF CALLS THEM AND THEY SAY THE 10 22 IS NOT OKAY, AND WE, WE NEED TO GO WITH THE OTHER, I, THERE IS NO DISCUSSION.
SO FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD, IT'S SOME OF THOSE ARTICLES THAT I READ YESTERDAY THAT WERE SENT, UH, SOME OF THE MANUFACTURERS OF THESE, UH, CARBONATED MACHINES HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO EMBED OR INCLUDE THE 10 22 INTO THE EQUIPMENT, OR DID I UNDERSTAND THEY'RE DOING A, BASICALLY A AIR GAP BUILT, BUILT-IN AIR GAP.
SO THE ISSUE WAS THAT SOME OF THE MANUFACTURERS HAVE ALREADY TAKEN IT ON THEMSELVES TO INSTALL THIS 10 22, BUT YET IT DOESN'T COMPLY TO THE STATE, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR BACKFLOW.
AND SO THEY'RE STILL REQUIRING A SEPARATE BACKFLOW ANDREW, TRIC SAN ANTONIO WATER SYSTEM.
UM, WHEN WE COME ACROSS THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS OUT IN THE FIELD, WE ARE REQUIRING THAT THEY PUT A, A PROPER TESTABLE DEVICE ON THESE SYSTEMS SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THERE'S PROTECTION FOR THE PEOPLE WITHIN THAT FACILITY IN OUR SYSTEM.
BUT AGAIN, THE QUESTION WAS, DO YOU REMEMBER, OR DO YOU KNOW, UH, SPECIFICALLY IF THE MANUFACTURERS OF THESE MACHINES ARE ALREADY INCLUDING INSIDE THE EQUIPMENT, THAT 10 22?
[00:30:01]
AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT'S, UH, THEY'RE NOT INSTALLING THOSE TYPES OF ASSEMBLIES WITHIN THAT SYSTEM.BUT I CAN FOLLOW UP WITH SOME OF OUR INSPECTORS AND SEE IF THEY, ANY OF THE NEWER EQUIPMENT HAS THAT THE STANDALONE LOOKS LIKE MINIATURE REFRIGERATORS THAT ARE STANDING THERE.
BUT, UM, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK INTO SOME OF THE SPECIFICS.
THINGS ARE ALWAYS CHANGING AND WE DON'T KNOW NECESSARILY SOME OF THE VERY SPECIFICS WITHIN THAT EQUIPMENT.
SO THAT'S WHY WE ALWAYS TRY TO ENSURE THERE IS A PROTECTION THAT'S THERE THAT CAN BE TESTED, THAT IS VISIBLE.
NOW WHERE IT'S INSTALLED, WE TRY TO TELL 'EM, INSTALL A PLACE, THOUGH IT IS TESTABLE SO TESTERS CAN ACCESS.
UM, SOMETIMES THEY FIND VERY UNIQUE WAYS OF INSTALLING THESE AND CEILING TILES AND BACK BEHIND PORTIONS OF LITTLE CUTOUTS IN THE WALL WHERE YOU CAN'T REALLY GET TO.
UM, SO WE TRY TO TELL 'EM, MAKE SURE TO PUT IT IN A LOCATION WHERE IT CAN BE TESTED SO WE CAN ENSURE THAT'S BEING PROTECTED.
SO IF ANY OTHER FURTHER DISCUSSION, ANY CONCERNS? AND, UH, THEN A SHALL I ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ACCEPT, UH, UH, KEEPING THE AMENDMENT FOR NUMBER 40? IF IT, IF IT'S REQUIRED? I DON'T THINK THERE'S A NEED TO, I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO AMEND IT, BUT WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING SCHEDULED, RIGHT? WE DO IF, IF NEEDED.
SO WE DO HAVE A MEETING, UM, SCHEDULED FOR FRIDAY.
UH, BUT THAT WAS IF WE, IF WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET THROUGH ALL OF OUR TABLED ITEMS AND NEW ITEMS. SO I, I THINK IF IT'S REQUIRED BY T C E E Q, IT'S DONE.
I, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION IF IT'S NOT, IS IT REQUIRED BY SAS BECAUSE OF T C E Q OR IS IT YOUR PREFERENCE? SO SOMEWHERE, IS THERE A RULE AT SAS THAT IT HAS TO BE A TESTABLE IN AN ORDINANCE CONSIDERED A HEALTH HAZARD? SO I THINK YOU CHANGE IT, LEAVE THE AMENDMENT LIKE IT IS.
IF Y'ALL WISH TO DO THAT, GOOD MORNING.
IF Y'ALL WISH TO DO THAT, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL ENTERTAIN IT.
THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION BASED ON T C E Q REQUIREMENTS.
UM, IF WE CHECK AND T C E Q CONFIRMS THAT IT HAS TO BE TESTABLE, THEN YOU ALREADY MADE THE MOTION AND IT'S APPROVED.
IF THEY COME BACK WITH DIFFERENT INFORMATION, WE CAN EITHER DO FRIDAY MEETING OR WE CAN BRING IT TO THE FULL BOARD AT THAT POINT AND JUST SAY, WE DID THE RESEARCH.
THEN WE'LL JUST, UH, WAIT FOR THE RE UH, THE CITY TO DO THEIR CHECK ON ON THAT REPORT.
WELL, NO, I, I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE APPROVE IT SUBJECT TO T E C T C E Q SAYING IT'S REQUIRED.
AND IF, IF NOT, IT'LL COME BACK FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.
JILL, DOES I SECOND THAT? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
DIDN'T WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE WITH THE, THAT WAS FOR THE COFFEE MAKER SOMEPLACE? AM I JUST MISSING THAT? LET'S SEE.
WELL, UH, 40 AND, UH, 40 AT 44 I BELIEVE ARE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAME, BUT 44 IS NOT THE COFFEE MAKER.
YEAH, I THOUGHT WE HAD ONE IN THAT WAS SPECIFIC TO COFFEE MAKERS ON OUR OLD LIST.
WELL, I THINK, UH, AND GEORGE, THAT WOULD APPLY TO BOTH 40 AND 44.
'CAUSE ONE'S CHANGING THE TABLE AND THE OTHER ONE'S CHANGING THE VERBIAGE.
FOR THE CARBONATED BEVERAGE DISPENSERS, WE DO NOT HAVE
[00:35:01]
A CURRENT AMENDMENT.UM, 4 6 0 8, 17 0.1 0.2 FOR COFFEE MACHINES.
I MAY HAVE JUST BEEN, IT WAS PRE VACATION, SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHY I THOUGHT IT WAS IN THERE.
I I, I THINK YOU WERE USING IT AS AN EXAMPLE WITH THE, UH, CARBONATION.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT, IT, THE STATE OR THE CITY REQUIRES BACKFLOW ON THOSE TYPE OF OTHER MACHINES, YOUR COFFEE MAKERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND I THINK YOU WERE JUST THROWING THAT IN.
YEAH, WELL IT MAY HAVE BEEN BECAUSE THE 6 0 8 17 1 0.2 ALLOWS THE A, A 10 22 IN THERE.
SO IF 10 22 IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE STATE, WE MAY NEED TO AMEND THE COFFEE MAKER.
45 IS PROBABLY WHAT YOU'RE USING AS, UH, APPLYING TO THE COFFEE MAKER.
SO AGAIN, THE 10 22 IS PRETTY MUCH STILL NOT TESTABLE.
IT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWED THERE EITHER.
SO, SO I'M GONNA ASK 'CAUSE I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT.
IT IT, FOR THE COFFEE MAKER, IT'S A 10 22 OR A 10 24, CORRECT? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT A 10 24 IS.
I HAVEN'T EVEN, DIDN'T EVEN LOOK FOR IT.
NOT OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD EITHER.
SO, WELL, WE, WE MAY NEED THE CITY TO LOOK AT IF 10 22 IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE STATE, THEN WE MAY NEED TO AMEND, LIKE I SAID, WE MAY NEED TO AMEND.
SO IF YOU GUYS COULD LOOK AT THAT ONE TOO.
SO THEN AGAIN, UH, 45 WOULD APPLY.
WHERE, UH, WE'RE GONNA WAIT FOR T C QS ACTUAL, UH, UH, STATEMENTS ON I GUESS OUR DEVICES.
WHAT IS A NON POTABLE BOILER? WAIT TILL THEY START GETTING AFTER YOU THAT IT'S POTABLE, NOT POTABLE.
I, I WOULD ASSUME THAT'S SOMETHING LIKE IF YOU'RE DOING WATER RECLAMATION AND, AND USING THAT WATER TO DO SOMETHING OR OTHER, YOU KNOW, MAKE, IF YOU'RE USING CONDENSATE OFF OF A ROOFTOP UNIT AND FEEDING THAT INTO A BOILER TO, TO DO SOMETHING.
MS. MR. MORALES, DO YOU HAVE ANY STATEMENT ON THIS? UH, NON-POTABLE BOILER
WHICH, WHICH CODE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE? WHICH, WHICH SECTION? 6 0 8 17 2.
SO THAT WOULD BE OH 6 0 8 17 2 IS THE, THE POTABLE SUPPLY TO THE BOILER.
SO THAT'S, WE'VE AMENDED IT, UM, TO RECONNECTIONS TO NON-POTABLE BOILERS.
GONNA BRING, BRING THE AMENDMENT CHECK 40 AND JUST 1445.
THIS IS THE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
I CAN GIVE A LITTLE CLARIFICATION TO THAT.
UH, THE REASON WHY WE HAVE THAT, I'M SORRY.
THANK YOU BRUCE RATBURN, UH, WHEN THAT WAS LOOKED AT INITIALLY WHEN WE BROUGHT I P C IN FROM U P C, ANYTHING, ONCE YOU HAVE A BACKFLOW PREVENTER INSTALLED, ANYTHING THAT'S DOWNSTREAM NOW HAS A LANGUAGE OF NON-POTABLE.
IT MAY HAVE A POTABLE WATER SUPPLY, BUT AS SOON AS IT HITS THAT BACKFLOW PREVENTER GETS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF IT, IT'S CONSIDERED NON-POTABLE.
SO THAT MAY BE WHY THAT WAS, UH, PUT IN THERE WAS JUST TO CARRY OVER AS FAR BACK AS U P C TO THE FIRST INTRODUCTION OF I P C.
SO ACTUALLY IN THE AMENDMENT, NOW THAT I'M LOOKING AT THE AMENDMENT ON THE SCREEN, IS IT'S, IT'S ADDING THE WORD NON-POTABLE AND THEN WE'RE ALSO AMENDING THE A S SS E BACKFILL PREVENTION TYPE.
RIGHT? I JUST DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THAT.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THAT ALL CAME FROM.
[00:40:07]
SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS TO KEEP THIS AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN.UM, DO YOU GUYS AGREE WITH THAT? AND IF WE HAVE ANY CONFLICTING RESPONSE FROM T C E Q, THEN WE'LL BRING THAT BACK TO YOU GUYS.
I MEAN THAT'S WITH ALL, ALL OF THE BACKFLOW.
SO THE NEXT ITEM WE HAD TO RE WE HAD FOR REVISITING WAS 46 FOR CONNECTIONS TO LAWN IRRIGATION SYSTEMS. LEMME BRING THAT AMENDMENT.
SO WE ELIMINATED THE ATMOSPHERIC TYPE VACUUM BREAKER AND ADDED IN THE DOUBLE CHECK VALVE ASSEMBLY.
OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO KEEP THAT AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN AGAIN, UH, THAT THAT'LL FALL IN THAT BACKFLOW DEAL WHERE WE'LL WAIT FOR T C E Q TO, OR YOUR RESEARCH ON TCE Q'S REQUIREMENT.
I I WAS JUST GONNA ASK SOME OF OUR EXPERTS IN THE, IN, OUT, IN THE, THE STANCE, WHY, WHY DID T IF YOU KNOW, WHY DID, WHY DID THE THE STATE MOVE AWAY FROM ALLOWING VACUUMING BREAKERS? 'CAUSE THAT'S, AGAIN, THAT'S A FAIRLY STANDARD THING I'VE SEEN IN, IN OTHER STATES WHERE I'VE, WHERE I'VE WORKED BRUCE RATHBURN, UH, AS GEORGE STATED, IT'S 'CAUSE IT'S NON TESTABLE.
A UH, ATMOSPHERIC IS NON TESTABLE.
AGAIN, THAT'S JUST, I I HAVE SOME ISSUES WHEN A, WHEN THE NATIONALLY OR THE INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED CODE ACCEPTS IT AND HAS, HAS DONE THE RISK VERSUS REWARD, AND THEY FIND IT'S ALL RIGHT.
I, I THINK IT'S A, A PIECE THAT WE SHOULD PUSH BACK ON THE STATE AND GO THAT, THAT IT'S, IT SEEMS, I DON'T THINK IT'S A COST SAVINGS, YOU KNOW, TYPE OF THING WHEN, WHEN WE'RE WITH OUR AMENDMENT.
SO I, I JUST THINK WE SHOULD PUSH BACK UP ON THE STATE AND GO, WHY IS IT ALLOWED EVERYWHERE ELSE? WHY ARE WE SPECIAL? SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY ONLY COMMENT ON THAT ONE.
BUT, UM, AGAIN, BRUCE RAPER, I'M NOT SURE THAT FALLS BACK AGAINST THE STATE.
UH, HOWEVER, THE RULE CHANGE CAME, I'M TRYING TO THINK, WAS IT LAST YEAR OR YEAR BEFORE LAST WHEN IT WAS REVIEWED BY THE IRRIGATION COMMITTEE FOR THE STATE? UH, THAT'S WHERE THEY WENT IN UNDER THE R WHAT THEY CALL RG THREE FORTY FOUR, REGULATORY GUIDANCE 3 44 FOR LAWN IRRIGATION.
THAT'S WHERE THEY REMOVED THE ATMOSPHERIC.
THEY ALSO REMOVED A STRAINER THAT WAS OUT IN FRONT OF THE BACKFLOW PREVENTER AT THE SAME TIME FOR A LAWN IRRIGATION SYSTEM.
I DIDN'T TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT EITHER, BECAUSE NOW ALL THE DEBRIS GETS TRAPPED IN THE BACK FLIP PREVENTER AND, UH, BUT THE ATMOSPHERIC WAS REMOVED AT THAT TIME BECAUSE IT'S NON TESTABLE.
AND, UH, THAT WAS THE, THE WHOLE THOUGHT PROCESS IS A, UH, LAWN IRRIGATION SYSTEMS WERE TRYING TO BE PUSHED TO BE LOOKED AT ANNUALLY ON A RESIDENTIAL.
UM, THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT, UH, WAS PASSED.
SO LAWN IRRIGATION KIND OF HAS THE RON POPE METHOD, IF YOU KNOW WHO RON POPE IS, IS SET IT AND FORGET IT.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH RESIDENTIAL LAWN IRRIGATION SYSTEMS. BUT I THINK THE, UH, COMMITTEE NEEDS TO KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES DONE WITH, UH, THE STATE UNDER, UH, DIRECTION OF THE WORK GROUP UNDER THE DRINKING WATER COMMITTEE.
THAT THERE'S BEEN NUMEROUS ISSUES WITH THAT DUE TO THE FACT OF WHAT'S IN AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM.
UH, THERE'S BIOFILMS, THERE'S E COLI, THERE'S FECES, AND WE'RE COUNTING ON AN ATMOSPHERIC, WHICH CAN'T EVEN BE TESTED.
THAT'S THE REASON WHY THEY REMOVED IT.
BUT THEY STILL ALLOW A DOUBLE CHECK AND IT'S STILL RECOGNIZED AS LOW HAZARD.
SO IT, IT'S, IT'S INTERESTING THAT IF YOU FOLLOW ANY OF THE CODES, DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S U P C I P C, ANY OF 'EM HAVE ALWAYS ADDRESSED
[00:45:01]
IRRIGATION SYSTEMS AS HEALTH HAZARD.SO YOU KNOW WHY THE STATE ELECTRICAL GO DOWN THAT PATH.
I I HAVE NO EXPLANATION OF THAT.
YEAH, THE IRRIGATION SYSTEMS AT LEAST MAKE SENSE.
YOU KNOW, WE ALL KNOW ROVER AND HIS FAVORITE, FAVORITE CORNER TYPE THING.
SO THOSE MAKE SENSE? YES, SIR.
IT'S JUST, YEAH, LIKE I SAID, MOST, MOST EVERYWHERE I'VE EVER BEEN AND AND WALK BY HIM, YOU COULD ALWAYS SEE THE LOOP UP, YOU KNOW, FOUR FEET ABOVE THE GROUND WITH A VACUUM BREAKER ON IT.
AND, AND IT'S BEEN ACCEPTABLE IN OTHER JURISDICTION.
SO THAT'S JUST THE ONLY THING THAT THEY'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH IS, IS CHANGING A TOPOGRAPHY.
I CAN TAKE YOU OUT ON NEW CONSTRUCTION ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT THEY START OUT IN THE ATMOSPHERICS AT THE RIGHT ELEVATION.
NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT A HEAD FOUR OR FIVE, HE FEET HIGHER THAN IT IS.
DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL.
IT'S JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE WHIM OF THE, THE OWNER AT THAT TIME MAKING THAT REQUEST.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, NOW IT'S BECOME SUBJECT.
SO THEN WE'RE UNDER THE, UH, WE'RE ALL RIGHT WITH GO AHEAD AND, AND, AND KEEPING THE, UH, AMENDMENT FOR 46 THEN MARK.
UH, YEAH, I, I, TO ME IT JUST, AGAIN, IT GOES BACK.
WE NEED TO, TO VERIFY WHICH, WHICH STATEMENT IS GONNA HAVE PRECEDENCE OVER OVER THE CITY.
I MEAN, IF, IF, IF THE STATE HAS GOT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA TELL US THAT THOU SHALL, THEN WE GOTTA DO IT.
BUT IF IT'S THEIR, IF THEY'RE LEAVING IT OPEN, I I WOULD VOTE.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S JUST MY PIECE ON IT.
MIKE MORALES, UH, T C Q NOTES A DC OR R P Z, UM, FOR IRRIGATION.
IT WOULD NOT ALLOW A VA VACUUM BREAKER.
AND I THINK WE JUST CHANGE IT AND IF YOU'RE SURE WE JUST LEAVE IT, LEAVE IT LIKE THE AMENDMENT IS PROPOSED.
THEN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND PUT THAT ONE AS A YES SO FAR ON THE 46.
SO NOW WE WANNA START BACK OVER WITH ON, ON THE FIRST PAGE.
IF WE DEALT WITH ALL THE BACKFLOW, THEN, UH, WE CAN GO AHEAD AND JUST START AT THE VERY BEGINNING THAT WAY.
THANK YOU, BRUCE, FOR YOUR, UH, HELP HERE.
OKAY, SO NUMBER SIX WAS A CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT THAT REQUIRES SEPARATION FROM ELECTRICAL LINES IN A DITCH.
UH, WE DID FIND THAT THIS WAS IN THE C P S STANDARDS.
SO C P S STANDARDS, UM, I, I PUT THE SECTION THERE FOR US, ROUTING AND SEPARATION FROM OTHER UTILITIES.
SO IN ADDITION, THE DUCK LINE MUST HAVE A MINIMUM OF 12 INCHES OF VERTICAL SEPARATION FROM ANY, ANY UTILITY AND 36 INCHES OF HORIZONTAL SEPARATION.
SO THE C P S STANDARD STATE FOR ROUTING AND SEPARATION FROM OTHER UTILITIES, THAT THE, THE CUSTOMER WILL SUBMIT A PROPOSED DUCK LINE ROUTE AT LENGTH FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY C P S ENERGY, BLAH, BLAH.
IN ADDITION, THE DUCK LINE MUST HAVE A MINIMUM OF 12 INCHES OF VERTICAL SEPARATION FROM ANY UTILITY AND 36 INCHES OF HORIZONTAL SEPARATION.
AND MIKE, DO YOU HAVE IT WRITTEN DOWN? WHAT SECTION OF OUR AMENDMENT, UM, SAYS THAT WE FOLLOW C P S STANDARDS? YES, MA'AM.
CAN YOU BRING THAT AMENDMENT UP? UH, THE, THE REASON I WAS GONNA MAKE IT KIND OF SPECIFIC FROM WHAT I HEARD THAT'S IN RELATED TO, UM, I'M GONNA USE THE WORD UTILITY, BUT THAT'S FROM A UTILITY PROVIDER TO, AND I'LL JUST SAY THE DISCONNECTING MEANS OF THE HOME AND, AND THE WAY THE AME THE AMENDMENT MAY BE READING IS THAT I'LL USE THE, FOR INSTANCE AGAIN, SOMEBODY'S GOT A, WELL, THEY'VE GOT A ONE INCH WATER LINE RUNNING FROM THEIR WELL INTO THE HOME.
USUALLY THE, THE, THE WELL INSTALLERS JUST DO ONE TRENCH AND THROW THE, THE TWO 40 VOLT WIRE RIGHT ON, ON TOP OF THAT.
SO I, I, IF, IF C P S WANTS THAT AS A REQUIREMENT ON THE UTILITY SIDE, FINE, BUT I THINK
[00:50:01]
WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL WITH OUR AMENDMENT THAT WOULD PREVENT INSIDE, I'LL, I'LL AIR QUOTE INSIDE THE HOME OR OR NON-UTILITY SIDE.I, I DISAGREE WITH THE 36 INCH SEPARATION.
WELL, WELL, THEY'RE STILL SERVICE SERVING THE UTILITY ALL THE WAY TO THE HOME.
I MEAN, IT'S THE SAME, THEY'RE JUST NOT INSTALLING IT.
THEY ARE THE, THE UTILITY PROVIDER.
YOU REMEMBER, THEY HAVE TO RUN THEIR, WELL, I, I GUESS IF IT'S OVERHEAD, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANY ELECTRICAL IN THE GROUND.
BUT IF THEY DO AN UNDERGROUND SERVICE TO A METER AND WE'RE RUNNING WATER AND GAS AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THROUGH THE YARDS, THEN OF COURSE, AND REMEMBER GREG CONSTRUCTION IS, IS A MORE CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT THAN SERVICE SIDE OR THE REPAIRING OF THESE LINES IN THE GROUND.
SO WHEN WE BRING OUR GUYS IN TO HAVE TO GO AFTER A WATER LEAK AND WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THESE WATER LINES ARE, IF, IF WE CAN PLAN THAT WE KNOW WE'RE TWO FOOT AWAY OR THREE FOOT AWAY, THEN THAT'S, UH, SEEMS TO BE, UH, THAT SAFETY FACTOR PLEASE REMEMBER IS WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THE GUYS GOING IN TO MAKE THESE REPAIRS, NOT JUST OUR CONSTRUCTION SITE.
BUT, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
IF IT'S, IF IT'S IN ESSENCE DEDICATED TO, AND AGAIN, I'LL USE THE WELL AS THE EXAMPLE IT, IT MOST, YOU CAN SHUT THE BREAKER OFF TO THE WELL, AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE DIGGING FOR THAT LINE.
YOU WOULDN'T WANT LIKE A, UH, I'LL MAKE A DIFFERENT EXAMPLE.
THE LIGHT POST IN THE FRONT YARD, UM, RUNNING NEXT TO YOUR DOMESTIC WATER ENTRANCE.
YOU KNOW THAT, THAT I CAN, I CAN SOME.
UM, BUT AGAIN, IT'S JUST, AND I'LL GO BACK TO THE, WELL AS THE ONE THAT KEEPS COMING INTO MY MIND.
I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO REALLY TAKE A REALLY WEIRD INTERPRETATION OF THIS, YOU, YOUR IRRIGATION CONTROL VALVE WIRING IS ELECTRICAL LINE.
AND SO YOU CAN'T PUT YOUR, YOU CAN'T PUT YOUR ELECTRICAL CONTROL WIRING FOR A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN THE SAME DITCH AS YOUR SPRINKLER PIPE.
I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD, WOULD GO, YOU'RE CRAZY.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I SAY WE, WE NEED TO BE SOMEWHAT COGNIZANT OF, OF WHAT WE'RE DRIVING ON HERE.
BECAUSE EVEN IF IT'S 24 CONTROL WIRING OR 12 VOLT OR WHATEVER IT IS, IT'S STILL AN ELECTRICAL LINE AND, AND IT COULD BE INTERPRETED THAT WAY.
SO THEN THE AMENDMENT IS TRYING TO CONFORM TO C P SS REQUIREMENTS AND AND THOSE REQUIREMENTS SWITCH OVER TO THE PRIVATE SIDE ON THE PROPERTY? OR IS THIS TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC UTILITIES? WELL, THAT, THAT'S WHY I SAY IF WE CAN GO BACK TO THE ACTUAL AMENDMENT.
IT JUST SAYS, WHEN I SAW IT IN THE GLANCE WHEN IT WENT BY, IT JUST SAID ELECTRICAL LINE.
I MEAN I THINK THIS, THE CITY'S INTENTION IS THAT IT APPLIES TO BOTH.
SO CAN WE JUST ADD THE WORD HIGH VOLTAGE OR SOMETHING IN FRONT OF ELECTRICAL LINES SO THAT IF IT'S A LOW VOLTAGE LINE, IT DOESN'T COUNT? SO THAT TAKES CARE OF THAT PROBLEM.
MAYBE WE COULD EXCLUDE LOW VOLTAGE, BUT YEAH, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PUT THE LANGUAGE.
YEAH, WE'LL HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC.
'CAUSE I THINK WHAT LOW VOLTAGE IS ACTUALLY, IN MOST TERMS, UNDER 50 OR 60, I'M NOT SURE, LOW VOLTAGE ACCORDING TO UTILITIES 120.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS THE JOYOUS DEFINITION OF THAT TOO.
SO IF WE WANTED TO SAY UNDER UNDER 50 VOLTS OR SOMETHING, WE'D HAVE TO JUST DOUBLE COORDINATE WITH THAT.
UH, SPENCER RAMSDALE NOT TO ADD MORE TO THIS.
I MEAN, JUST FROM BEING OUT IN THE FIELD AND SEEING, I WOULD SAY 99% OF UTILITIES ARE DONE THROUGH C P S OUT THERE THAT, UM, ARE BEING INSTALLED.
SO THEY'RE GONNA GO WITH THEIR OWN RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEIR OWN RULES WITH THE 36 INCHES APART.
I KNOW WHENEVER WE'RE DOING A GAS METER, YOU HAVE TO BE MINIMUM OF THREE FOOT FROM THE ELECTRICAL ON THAT AS WELL.
SO IN THIS SITUATION, UM, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE WELLS, I DO SEE THAT.
AND MOST OF THE TIME I'M NOT, USUALLY THEY, THEY HAVE A WELL PROVIDER RUNNING THE WATER SERVICES, AND I SEE A LOT OF TIMES THEY ARE RUNNING THE ELECTRICAL IN THE WATERS IN THE SAME DITCHES ON THOSE KIND OF APPLICATIONS THERE.
I DON'T SEE THAT A LOT IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
I CAN'T EVEN RECALL THE LAST TIME IN THE LAST 20 YEARS THAT I RAN A HOUSE THAT HAD A WELL ON IT.
UM, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY AREN'T OUT THERE.
AND SO I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, AND WITHOUT HAVING TO GO IN AND PUT LOW VOLTAGE AND JUST GO THROUGH THE WHOLE SITUATION OF IT, IF THAT IS ALREADY INTACT AND THAT'S ALREADY IN PLACE WITH C P S, MAYBE YOU TAKE IT OUT OF THERE.
YEAH, I GUESS TECHNICALLY RIGHT ON, ON THE TRUE UTILITY SIDE.
BUT AGAIN, IF THE CITY REALLY WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S, I'VE SEEN
[00:55:01]
IT IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS WHERE IT'S WHEN THEY TRENCH, THEY'LL DROP THAT, DROP THAT WIRE, RIGHT.AND AS WELL AS THE, THE NUMBER ONE PLACE WHERE I SEE IT, UM, I AGREE WITH UTILITY SIDE, YOU KNOW, FROM THE, FROM THE STREET TO I'LL SAY THE DISCONNECTING MEANS SURE, NO PROBLEM.
BUT ONCE WE GET ONTO THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT DISCONNECTING, I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN A LOT OF ISSUES WITH IT.
WELL, ALMA PARK IS LETTING PEOPLE DRILL WELLS LIKE CRAZY OUT THERE.
SO, SO, UH, UH, AND WHEN THEY DO THE INSPECTIONS ON THOSE WELLS, THEY'RE HAVING TO THROW THOSE LINES THREE FOOT OFF THE, THE INSPECTORS, THE CONTRACT INSPECTORS OVER THERE WILL NOT ALLOW THAT ELECTRICAL IN THERE.
AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A SECOND TRENCH IS A PRETTY, PRETTY GOOD COST OF MONEY.
SO I, I WOULD, I WILL STILL SAY I WOULD RECOMMEND WE LIMIT THIS TO THE U UTILITY SIDE OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, C P S SAWS, THEIR, THEIR STUFF OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
BUT IF IT'S ONCE IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, POWERED OFF OF THE ELECTRICAL PANEL FROM INSIDE THE BUILDING, I, I DON'T THINK WE INCLUDE IT.
MIKE MORALES, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE WOULD GRIEVE LOW VOLTAGE LINES.
I THINK IT'S YOUR HIGH VOLTAGE ONE 10 PLUS, UH, GOING IN THESE, UH, ELECTRICAL DITCHES.
IF YOU WANT TO THROW IN, UH, LOW VOLTAGE, MAYBE GIVE A A NUMBER ON IT, THAT'S FINE.
BUT, UM, SHOULD BE WHERE IT'S AT.
LIKE I SAID, INCLUDING LOW VOLTAGE.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT HAS EVER BEEN A PROBLEM, UH, STICKING A LOW VOLTAGE LINE IN ONE OF THESE DITCHES.
IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, IT'S IS THIS THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT? YES, YES.
THEN I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE LEAVE IT ALONE AND JUST EXCLUDE, YOU KNOW, THE LOW VOLTAGE WIRING AND Y'ALL COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF DEFINITION IN THE THING THAT MEETS THAT.
WHAT ABOUT THE ELECTRICAL COMMITTEE? AREN'T THEY DONE? THEY COMPLETE? NO, THEY'RE NOT.
UM, WE HAVE A MEETING TOMORROW SHOULD BE OUR LAST MEETING.
SO WE CAN, WE CAN WORK WITH, UM, OUR CHIEF ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR TO GET A LOW VOLTAGE.
THIS IS, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE THIS IN THE ELECTRICAL CODE, THE ELECTRICAL
THE ONLY OTHER ONE, LIKE I SAID, I I AGREE WITH LOW VOLTAGE.
I'D ALSO LIKE TO LEAVE, LET US EXCLUDE WELLS.
I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, IT MAKES SENSE IF YOU'RE PUTTING IN A, IN A, A LIGHT OUT FRONT THAT'S COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT FROM WHAT A PLUMBER MIGHT BE WORKING ON AND HITTING IT.
BUT A, WELL, IF YOU'RE WORKING ON A, WELL, YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WORKING ON, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE IN THE VICINITY.
BUT TYPICALLY WHAT THEY'LL DO IS THEY'LL DIG THAT TYPICALLY WITH THE WELLS, I'LL SEE IT, THEY'LL DIG THE TRENCH, UM, 36 INCHES TO FOUR FOOT AND THEY'LL PUT THEIR ELECTRICAL DOWN AND THEN THEY'LL COME UP AND THEN WE'LL PUT THE WATER LINE 12 INCHES ABOVE THAT.
SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE CATCHING ON THE GROUND.
THEY'RE CATCHING IT IN THE HORIZONTAL EVEN IN OUR, WELL, IS SAN ANTONIO ALL ALL LOOSE SOIL OR DO WE HAVE STONES FROM I DON'T, I DON'T SEE A LOT IN SAN ANTONIO.
THIS IS OUTTA THE CITY OUT IN THE COUNTY.
SO YOU GUYS, UH, RECOMMEND THAT WE KEEP IT AND ADD AN EXCEPTION FOR LOW VOLTAGE AND GET THAT VALUE.
DID, DID, DID THAT SAY 36 INCHES? COULD, COULD WE PUT A 12 INCH VERTICAL IN THERE? I MEAN THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS OUTTA COUNTY IN OTHER PLACES THEY'RE DOING A 12 INCH VERTICAL SEPARATION AND A 36 INCH DEEP TRENCH.
TYPICALLY THE ELECTRICAL LINES IS 36 INCHES DEPTH AND THEN THE WATER SERVICE IS 12 INCHES BELOW THE GRADE.
SO YOU MEAN 36 SEPARATION? YEAH.
SO YEAH, I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
OKAY, THEN I THEN I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I THOUGHT THEY WERE PUTTING 'EM IN THE SAME TRENCH.
IT IS THE SAME ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
IT'S, IT'S A VERTICAL SEPARATION.
BUT THEY'RE GOING FOR A FULL 36 INCH OF VERTICAL SEPARATION HOLD.
IS THAT CORRECT? THE REQUIREMENT THAT WE HAVE IS HORIZONTAL RUNS, THE VERTICAL WOULD BE 36 FOR THE ELECTRICAL.
SO YOU'RE ONLY LIKE TWO FOOT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ACTUAL TWO BECAUSE THE WIRE LINE'S STILL A FOOT DOWN THE ELECTRICAL'S THREE FOOT DOWN AND YOU GOT TWO FOOT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.
SO IT'S STILL, I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S HOW, THAT'S HOW THEY'RE RUNNING THEM OUT THERE FROM WHAT I SEE.
AND LIKE I SAID, WE'RE SO IS 36 RE I KNOW IT'S WHAT THE REQUIREMENT IS.
NOW IN REALITY, IF IT WERE 24, WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
[01:00:02]
C SS REQUIREMENT FOR VERTICAL SEPARATION IS 12, 12 INCHES, NOT 36.THIS, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, THIS AMENDMENT HERE DEALS WITH ANYTHING THAT IS NOT WHAT I CALL A C P S LINE.
THIS IS DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT, BECAUSE C P S HAS ITS REQUIREMENTS AND NOTHING WE CHANGE IS GONNA CHANGE THAT.
THIS DEALS WITH FROM THE PANEL, THE DISCONNECT WHEN C P S DELIVERS EVERYWHERE ELSE, AND I SEE THERE IS A NEED, LIKE FROM OUR STAFF, WE WOULD PREFER THAT THE ELECTRICAL LINE NOT BE BURIED NEXT TO THE WATER LINE.
SO WE DON'T KILL SOMEBODY ON THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY TAKE A PICK OR A SHOVEL, BUT IS 36, YOU KNOW, DOES IT REALLY MATTER IF IT'S SEPARATED? YOU KNOW, IF IT'S 36 INCHES BELOW OR 24 INCHES BELOW THE WATERLINE VERSUS GAS AT THAT POINT, DOES IT REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE? AND IF IT DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE, WE SHOULD SHORTEN IT AND GET RID OF THE HORIZONTAL AND JUST SAY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SEPARATION BY X NUMBER OF INCHES, PERIOD.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S VERTICAL OR HORIZONTAL, BECAUSE AT SOME POINT YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO GET THAT.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU COULD HAVE IT RIGHT ON TOP OF EACH.
WHAT DO YOU DO IF IT HAS TO CROSS? BECAUSE THE WATER LINE RUNS ONE WAY AND THE ELECTRICAL LINE RUNS THE OTHER WAY.
YOU'RE NOT SAYING IT HAS TO GO ALL THE WAY AROUND THE YARD TO GET BACK.
YEAH, THAT'S WHERE I WAS JUST GONNA JUMP IN AS WE, MAYBE WE SHOULD ADD IS A 12 INCH VERTICAL SEPARATION IN IT, AN OR 36 HORIZONTAL OR 'CAUSE THEN IT WOULD ALLOW THE WELL SYSTEM TO WORK THE WAY IT WOULD AND WE'LL STILL JUST, WE'D EXCLUDE LOW VOLTAGE.
UH, CRYSTAL, CAN YOU REREAD C P S REQUIREMENT? 'CAUSE IT DOES TALK ABOUT 12 INCHES VERTICALLY AND 36 HORIZONTAL.
SO MAYBE WE JUST NEED TO CHANGE OUR AMENDMENT TO MIMIC THE C P S REQUIREMENT.
THE DUCK LINE MUST HAVE A MINIMUM OF 12 INCHES OF VERTICAL SEPARATION FROM ANY UTILITY AND 36 INCHES OF HORIZONTAL SEPARATION.
SEE, THEY KEEP USING THE WORD UTILITY.
AND IN A, IN A DUCT BANK, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA REALLY FIND TRULY A DUCT BANK INSIDE OF A HOME OR, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IN A COMMERCIAL INSTALLATION.
BUT TO ME THAT'S, THAT'S ALL SAYING OUT, UH, ON THE SERVICE SIDE AS OPPOSED TO INSIDE THE BUILDING.
BUT OUR AMENDMENT IS ONLY INSIDE THE BUILDING.
I, I THINK IF WE DO THE 12 INCH VERTICAL SEPARATION, I THINK WE'RE FINE BECAUSE THEN IF SOMEBODY PUTS IN A, WELL, IT'S LIKE YOU SAID YOU, YOU TRENCH 36 INCHES DEEP, THROW THE WIRE DOWN, BACKFILL A FOOT, THROW THE WATER PIPE DOWN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STILL ONE ONE TRENCH.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT, IT, I REMEMBER READING, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS IN THE ELECTRICAL CODE, THAT IF SOLID ROCK OR MAYBE OTHER UTILITIES WERE RUNNING, YOU COULD NOT KEEP THAT SEPARATION.
YOU COULD ENCASE THOSE CONDUCTORS IN CONCRETE.
YEAH, THAT'S SOMEWHERE WHERE IS THAT? IT'S PROBABLY ELECTRICAL, BUT THERE MIGHT BE SO SATISFY IF YOU WANTED TO.
NO, BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE.
I, I MEAN, SO I I THINK THE IDEA IS, IS THAT YOU DO NOT WANT THE PERSON DIGGING AFTER THE FACT TO GET ELECTROCUTED.
IS THAT THE PURPOSE OF WHAT THIS IS FOR? YES, YES.
SO I WOULD SAY THAT IF, IF YOU ARE, AND I WOULD SAY IT NEEDS TO BE 12 INCHES BELOW THE WATER LINE, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE IT 12 INCHES ABOVE, IT DOESN'T HELP.
I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS WHICH ONE'S ON TOP OR, WELL, FOR SEWER AND, AND DOMESTIC WATER, I, I WOULD ALWAYS ARGUE YOU WANT SEWER BELOW, BUT FOR, NO, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PIPES.
I'M TALKING ABOUT AS TO ELECTRICITY.
YOU WANT THE ELECTRICITY BELOW THE WATER LINE.
SO IF YOU HAVE TO GO BACK THE ELECTRICAL LINE, CHANCES ARE IS NEVER GONNA NEED SERVICE.
THE WATER LINE, YOU KNOW, DUE TO SHIFTING.
DON'T HAVE A LOT OF GOPHERS DOWN HERE.
IS THAT, I MEAN, SO ARE YOU SAYING TAKE THE ELECTRICAL LINE 36 DOWN, THEN BRING IN, UH, NO, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU NEED 36, BUT I, I MEAN I, I THINK 12 OR 18 INCHES, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE WATER
[01:05:01]
LINE IS 18, UH, THE ELECTRIC LINE IS 18 INCHES BELOW THE WATER LINE AND GIVE THE CHOICE OF EITHER SEPARATING IT BY 36 INCHES OR 36 INCHES HORIZONTAL OR 18 INCHES BELOW THE WATER, SEWER OR WHATEVER YOU'RE SERVING THE SAME PURPOSE THAT THAT IS CORRECT, MARK.I MEAN, AGAIN, WE FOLLOW C P S REQUIREMENTS.
C P S SAYS 12 INCHES VERTICALLY, NOT EVEN 18 INCHES.
AS LONG AS THE ELECTRICAL WIRE AND THE WATER LINE ARE SEPARATED BY 12 INCHES IN THE SAME DITCH VERTICALLY, THEN IT'S OKAY.
SO AGAIN, MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO TAKE THE C P S, UH, DEFINIT DEFINITION IT IF YOU'LL, AND REPLACE IT WITH OUR, LIKE, CHANGE OUR AMENDMENT WITH C P S TO MATCH C P S.
IS IT, AND IS IT 36 HORIZONTAL OR 12 INCHES? IT'S BOTH, RIGHT? IT, IT'S, AND YEAH, SO CP S'S REQUIREMENT IS BOTH.
AND, AND SO WHAT, BUT WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS FROM A SAFETY POINT OF VIEW FOR WHAT I CALL FROM THE MEAT, ONCE YOU GET PAST THE METER AND, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PRIVATE UTILITY LINES THAT WE ADOPT EITHER 36 INCHES AWAY HORIZONTALLY OR 12 INCHES BELOW AND, AND AT THAT POINT, NOBODY, NOBODY'S DIGGING BELOW THE PIPE, YOU KNOW? YEAH, I THINK THAT, THAT SOUNDS REASONABLE TO ME.
AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE COST ADD AND IT GIVES YOU GUYS THE PROTECTION THAT YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE OUT THERE, LINE SHOULD BE ON TOP ANYWAY, SO WE GOT OUR WATER.
YEAH, NO, IT'S, UH, SECTION 1000 THAT WORK.
I MEAN, IT NEEDS TO BE A DISTANCE SAFE ENOUGH SO WHEN YOU'RE, THE PLUMBER IS DIGGING, THEY DON'T GET ELECTROCUTED.
SO HOW OFTEN DO YOU DIG 12 INCHES BELOW THE PIPE? IS THAT ENOUGH TRUE WHEN YOU'RE HAND DIGGING? UH, I WOULD SAY YOU'RE NOT, BUT, UH, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF COMMERCIAL SITUATIONS WHERE, UH, BACKHOES ARE GONNA BE GOING AFTER THOSE KINDA LEAKS, SEWER LEAKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO IF WE DON'T HAVE GOOD SEPARATION, I THINK A BUCKET MIGHT HIT IT.
AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING LIKE, IT'S TYPICALLY THREE FOOT FOR THE ELECTRICAL, ANOTHER TWO FOOT UP, AND THEN THE WATER LINE, AND YOU GOT THE FOOT DIFFERENCE FOR THE TOP SOIL THERE.
I, I MEAN, SO TWO FOOT OR 18 INCHES WOULD WORK.
I, I MEAN, SO IT'S EITHER 36 INCHES HORIZONTALLY AWAY OR 18 INCHES BELOW.
YEAH, WE COULD TAKE THIS, THAT RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, THE ELECTRICAL COMMITTEE TOMORROW AND SEE IF THEY AGREE WITH THAT.
SO SEPARATION OF 36 INCHES HORIZONTALLY OR 18 INCHES OR ELECTRICAL LINE IS 18 INCHES BELOW WATER.
AND, AND I'LL LEAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, UNDER 50 VOLT LOW VOLTAGE THING OR HOWEVER YOU GUYS WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT, LEAVE THAT OUT OR NO, NO, WE STILL WANT THAT IN, WE STILL WANT THE EXEMPTION FOR LOW VOLTAGE WIRING COULD BE RUNNING THE SAME.
SO WE'LL KEEP THAT AMENDMENT WITH MODIFICATIONS.
THE NEXT ITEM WE HAVE THAT WAS TABLED ITEM NUMBER NINE FOR TEST GAUGES.
SO THE CURRENT AMENDMENT REQUIRES A GRADE ONE A OR BETTER FOR A TEST GAUGE.
SO WE LOOKED AT THE VARIATION OF THE TEST GAUGES, AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT WE'VE SPECIFIED.
THE GRADE ONE EIGHT IS THE MIDDLE OF THE, THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD TEST GAUGE,
[01:10:01]
WHICH HAS A, UH, UP TO 1%, UM, AIR PERMISSIBLE AIR.I, I BELIEVE THE FIRST MEETING'S DISCUSSION WAS, WHY DO WE HAVE TO HAVE THE AMENDMENT STATING IN ONE A IF THERE WAS ALREADY A DESCRIPTION IN I P C? UH, UH, IS, IS THAT CORRECT, MARK? THAT WAS, THAT WAS, THAT WAS GREAT.
IS IS, WHY DO WE NEED IT? I MEAN, REALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT A, AT A, AT A, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, A DELTA, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS.
THIS WAS TESTING PRE, YOU KNOW, IF A LEAK, WE WERE LOOKING FOR A CHANGE IN PRESSURE AS OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T CARE IF IT'S OUT TRULY A HUNDRED P S I, BUT WE JUST CARE THAT IT DROPPED BY TWO OR THREE P SS I TO INDICATE A LEAK.
SO IT WAS JUST THAT KIND OF WENT BACK TO, DO WE NEED THE AMENDMENT? SO THE ONE, A DEFINITION OR, UH, CLASSIFICATION ACTUALLY IS A GRADE ON HOW ACCURATE THOSE GAUGES ARE AND HOW SENSITIVE THE DESCRIPTION IN THE I P C IS, IS BASICALLY GIVING YOU SOME WAY FOR A CO, A CO A GAUGE TO BE COMPLIANT.
IT DOESN'T CREATE THAT ACCURACY LEVEL OR DEFINE THE ACTUAL ACCURACY LEVEL.
WHEN YOU LOOK UP THESE GAUGES THAT FIT THIS, UH, THESE, THIS DESCRIPTION OR PARAMETERS, UH, THERE ARE SEVERAL GAUGES THAT, UH, CAN BE USED.
AND SO THE NEED TO DEFINE THAT GRADE OR LEVEL OF ACCURACY OR SENSITIVITY LEVEL WAS, UH, IN THAT CONSIDERATION.
OF COURSE, THERE, LIKE SHE, LIKE CRYSTAL SAID, THIS IS A MIDDLE OF THE ROAD SENSITIVITY LEVEL OR GRADE, THERE ARE MUCH MORE SENSITIVE, AND YET THERE ARE LESS SENSITIVE OR LESS ACCURATE GAUGES THAT FIT THE DESCRIPTION THAT I P C IS PERFORMING OR IS PROVIDING.
SO I THINK THAT IS SOMEWHAT THERE, THERE SHE'S GOT THE, UH, UH, THE ACCURACY GRADES.
SO THAT WAY MAYBE YOU, WE CAN DISCUSS IT THIS WAY.
WOULD THIS BE A NEW, IS THIS CURRENTLY IN THE CODE? YES.
ONE A IS REQUIRED IN THE CODE RIGHT NOW.
THEN I JUST SAY WE LEAVE IT, IT'S IT REQUIRED BY AMENDMENT, NOT BY NO, NO, NO.
BUT EVERYBODY HAS BOUGHT THEIR GAUGES TO COMPLY WITH THAT.
I THINK WE JUST, IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S WORTH MESSING WITH IF EVERY PLUMBER IN TOWN, THAT'S THE GAUGE THEY'RE USING BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'S BEEN FOR.
YOU ONLY GET ABOUT TWO OR THREE USES OUT OF 'EM BEFORE THEY COME BACK.
SO WHEN YOU SAY THEY FAIL, WHAT, HOW ARE THEY FAILING? THEY LOSE THEIR, LOSE THEIR PRECISION OR THEIR ACCURACY, OR THEY JUST BREAK BOTH.
THEY'RE, THEY PUT 'EM IN THE BACK OF THE TRUCK AND IT GETS NO, LITERALLY, THE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDS THAT YOU PUT 'EM BACK IN THEIR BOX IN THEIR CASE.
UM, THESE THINGS GO ON, YOU KNOW, A TOP OUT INSPECTION AND YOU'VE GOT EVERY OTHER CREW OUT THERE STEPPING ON 'EM, YOU KNOW, JUST, I MEAN, JUST TAKING 'EM OFF.
YOU GET ABOUT TWO OR THREE USES OUT OF THEM.
SO, SO HOW, HOW MUCH ARE THE GAUGES? YOU KNOW, 50 BUCKS.
SO IF WE REMOVE THAT AMENDMENT, CAN YOU BUY A MORE ROBUST GAUGE? SO WHAT THAT IT'S NOT QUITE AS PRECISE OR ACCURATE?
I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING ON THIS, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, UH, TO ME IT'S MORE LOOKING LIKE THE DELTA, THE CHANGE IN PRESSURE WHEN YOU'RE DOING A LEAK TEST.
BUT IT ALSO GIVES, WHOEVER'S BUYING IT KNOWS THAT I NEED A ONE, A GAUGE VERSUS WHICH ONE IT MEETS ALL THE STANDARDS.
AND SO I THINK IT'S EASIER ON THE PERSON WHO'S BUYING THE GAUGE AND IF THERE'S NOT A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THE COST OF THE GAUGES.
I JUST SAY WE, I THINK WITH THE KEEPING IT ALL UNIFORM, WE ALSO GOTTA CONSIDER C P S ON HOUSES OUTTA THE CITY AS WELL.
UM, WHAT THEIR REQUIREMENTS ARE.
I BELIEVE THEY ARE A ONE A GAUGE ON THOSE AS WELL.
YEAH, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA DIE ON THIS HILL.
JUST LIKE I SAID, THE ONLY REASON I WAS LIKE IS IT'S NOT ANYWHERE ELSE.
SO DO WE NEED IT HERE? SO I AGREE.
I MEAN, THEY, THEY'RE PRETTY HARD.
I MEAN, JUST FROM A, A BUSINESS STANDPOINT, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO KEEP IT UNIFORM AND EVERYBODY'S ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.
EVEN HAVING DIFFERENT GAUGES HERE, DIFFERENT GAUGES, DIFFERENT AREAS OF TOWN.
OKAY, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH KEEPING THAT AMENDMENT.
UM, AND THAT'S ALSO AMENDMENT IN THE FUEL GAS CODE.
SO YOU GUYS RECOMMEND THAT WE REMAIN CONSISTENT WITH THE FUEL GAS AS WELL
[01:15:01]
AND ADOPT THAT AS WRITTEN.SO THE NEXT ITEM WE HAD TABLED WAS CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT AS NUMBER 10, CURRENT COSA AMENDMENT THREE, 12.2 FOR THE DRAINAGE AND VENT WASTE TEST.
SO THIS WAS, UM, OUR AMENDMENT THAT REDUCES THE HEAD FROM 10 TO THREE AND A HALF FEET.
MAYBE I'LL HELP US JUST MAY GO THROUGH THESE IN A HURRY.
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS TO ELIMINATE THE AMENDMENT? I THINK THE ANSWER IS YES.
SO WHY TALK ABOUT IT? I'LL LOSE IN A VOTE
WE DID ALL THIS RESEARCH AND WE WERE SO READY FOR THIS ONE.
UM, BUT WE DO THINK THAT THAT'S A GOOD CALL.
WE WERE LOOKING AT FROM A WATER CONSERVATION ISSUE AS WELL.
I MEAN, WE DID OVER SIX, WE DID ALMOST 6,000 RESIDENTIAL HOMES LAST YEAR, UM, ALONE.
SO THAT'S NOT INCLUDING THE COMMERCIAL, UM, OR APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
SO WE THOUGHT THAT THIS WAS, UM, AND, AND I WAS GONNA HAVE TO QUIT PULLING PERMITS FOR INSPECTIONS 'CAUSE I COULDN'T AFFORD THE HARNESS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO A SKY HOOK TO HOLD HIM ON THAT LADDER.
'CAUSE HE WAS AT A HOUSE, THEY WERE DOING A ROUGH AND IT HAD IT A HEAD ON IT.
AND HE GOES, YOU KNOW, BY, BY CODE, IF I DID IT BY CODE, YOU KNOW, WE'D HAVE TO HAVE A 10 FOOT HEAD OUT OF THE THE HOUSE.
HE GOES, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GONNA GET ON THEIR LADDER AND DO THAT.
SO I THOUGHT IT WAS KIND OF FUNNY.
SO YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I SAY A LOT OF THE OTHER PLACES I'VE SEEN IT CRAZY STICK PUT A 10 FOOT STICK ON THE ROOF ON THE VENT.
BY THE SAME TOKEN, I'VE SEEN HIM PUT A PRESSURE GAUGE ON A CLEAN OUT AND THEN FILL IT UP UNTIL IT RUNS OUT THE VENT ON THE ROOF, AND THEN LOOK FOR A DELTA IN THE PRESSURE GAUGE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S HOW I'VE SEEN HIM LOOK, YOU KNOW, PLUS YOU GET A BIT OF A VISUAL AS YOU WALK THROUGH, BUT LIKE I SAID, I'LL LOSE THIS VOTE.
SO ITEM NUMBER 10 WILL, WE'LL KEEP THAT AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN.
SO ITEM 11, OUR NEXT, UM, 11 AND 12 KIND OF GO TOGETHER, CURRENT AMENDMENTS, STRIKE OUT THE LANGUAGE FOR GRAVITY SEWER TEST, ENFORCED SEWER TESTS.
IS THAT WHERE WE HAD SOME SAWS, FOLKS THAT WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THAT? WE DID.
UM, AND AGAIN, WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS, UH, FROM WATER CONSERVATION AS WELL.
UM, LIKE I SAID, 5,946 RESIDENTIAL PERMITS ISSUED LAST YEAR.
SO I BELIEVE SASS WAS ASKING US TO CONSIDER THE FACT THAT, UH, WE WERE, UH, NOT TESTING THESE SEWERS OVER THEIR RECHARGE.
UH, I MEAN, AS A OWNER DOING, UH, INSTALLATIONS AND THINGS, I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING A 10 FOOT TEST ON THE, ON THE BUILDING SEWER.
UH, AND I FEEL, UH, BURDENED BY SAWS TO BE CONCERNED OVER THEIR RECHARGE ZONE.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE AMENDMENT SHOULD JUST, UH, ADDRESS PROPERTIES OVER THAT RECHARGE ZONE, IF THAT WOULD SATISFY SAWS OR, UH, I'LL OPEN THE FLOOR FOR OTHER TALKS OR OTHER CONVERSATION.
I HAVE A QUESTION ON TWO, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TWO AND SIX AND ONE, SO IF WE, IF OR, AND TWO, WELL, IT SAYS YOU'RE REDUCING THE GRAVITY TEST FROM 10 TO THREE AND A HALF FEET AND THEN, BUT THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO GRAVITY TESTING ON AT ALL IN SIX.
IS THAT FOR A DIFFERENT APPLICATION? ONE'S FOR A BUILDING AND ONE'S GONNA BE FOR THE SEWER LINE OUT IN THE YARD.
SO HOW MANY PROBLEMS IS SASS HAVING WITH SEWER LINES BE BECAUSE FROM, FROM A MAINTENANCE PERSPECTIVE, 90% OF OUR SEWER ISSUES ARE CAUSED BY SOME SHIFT IN THE GROUND THAT EITHER CRACKS THE PIPE, BREAKS THE PIPE, AND IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE FITTING IS LOOSE.
THIS IS, THIS IS NEW INSTALL IF YOU WOULD, UM, SCOTT HALTE, SAME THING.
SCOTT HALTE, SAN ANTONIO WATER SYSTEM.
UM, IT'S MAINLY A PREVENTATIVE MEASURE.
I DON'T SPECIFICALLY CAN POINT TO ANY ONE SEWER LINE THAT, UH, WE KNOW LEAKED.
I'M SURE WE'VE HAD SOME EXAMPLES WE'D HAVE TO GET, GET SOMETHING
[01:20:01]
LIKE THAT, BUT IT'S PREVENTATIVE.UM, WE DID CHECK, I BELIEVE, UH, MR. MCFARLAND ASKED THAT WE CHECK WITH SOME OTHER CITIES.
UM, BUT, UH, WE DID CALL SOME OTHER CITIES.
WE GOT A CALL BACK FROM A MR. BEELER WHO DOES HILL COUNTRY VILLAGE HOLLYWOOD PARK IN SHAO.
AND HE SAID THEY DO TEST IT'S PREVENTATIVE.
AND EVEN IF IT WASN'T, UM, IF IT WASN'T FOR, UH, WELL LET ME, LET ME CHANGE MY THOUGHT HERE.
UM, THIS WOULD BE JUST FOR RECHARGE ZONE.
UM, AND I THINK THE 6,000 NUMBER THAT WE'RE SEEING THERE IS FOR THE ENTIRE CITY.
AND SO YOU'RE ELIMINATING 70% AND IF IT'S A CONSERVATION EFFORT, THAT'S A CONCERN.
YOU'RE ELIMINATING A LARGE PORTION OF THEM.
BUT WE WERE STILL REQUESTING IT FOR RECHARGE ZONE.
UM, WE ARE UNIQUE IN THE, IN BEING PROACTIVE IN PROTECTING, WE REQUIRE IMPERVIOUS COVER LIMITS ON DEVELOPMENT ON THE RECHARGE ZONE.
MAYBE AUSTIN STILL HAS SOME, UH, WE REQUIRE BUFFERS ALONG FLOODPLAINS.
WE REQUIRE BUFFERS ALONG RECHARGE FEATURES.
SO WE HAVE SOME UNIQUE RULES AND IT'S JUST OUR FEELING THAT FOR THE RECHARGE ZONE, WE HAVE SOME EXTRA SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE WASTEWATER SYSTEM.
AND THIS TO, TO US WOULD BE GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND.
THERE WAS A SERIES OF EMAILS THAT WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH.
I TALKED TO KAREN GU, UH, THE DIRECTOR FOR CONSERVATION AND SHE SENT BACK TO ME THAT IN THIS CASE, HEALTH AND SAFETY TRUMPS CONSERVATION.
AND SO I WOULD ASK, SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.
SO IS SAS PREPARED TO PUT CATCH BASINS THAT AROUND EVERY MANHOLE THAT YOU PUT IN? BECAUSE MY GUESS IS YOU POLLUTE THE RECHARGE ZONE BY SEWER DISCHARGE THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN A C CLOGGED LINE MORE THAN A HOUSE IS GOING TO THE ONE HOUSE IN 5,000 THAT MAY DEVELOP A SEWER PIPE LEAK.
EACH ONE, WE DO BERM UP IN CASES WHERE WE HAVE A SEWER OVERFLOW.
ONE OF OUR FIRST ACTIONS WE CAN TAKE IF IT'S NOT TOO HIGH VOLUME, IS THAT WE BUILD A BERM AROUND IT.
BUT, BUT, AND THEN WE COLLECT.
BUT SO, SO WHY ARE YOU ASKING TO BURDEN EVERY HOMEOWNER WITH THE COST OF HAVING THAT ADDED INSPECTION WHEN CHANCES ARE SAWS AS THE ORGANIZATION IS POLLUTING WAY MORE THAN THEY ARE? UM, FOR NOW, THESE ARE FOR NEW IN INSTALLS, AM I CORRECT? YEAH, BUT YOU HAVE SEWER LINES THAT RUN ALL OVER THE RECHARGE ZONE THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE NEWS AND ONCE OR TWICE OR THREE TIMES A YEAR, YOU'RE DISCHARGING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF SEWER WATER INTO THE RECHARGE.
WHEN WE PUT, WHEN WE PUT A NEW LINE IN, WE TEST IT, WE, WE PUT IT UNDER PRESSURE AND WE TEST IT.
NOW IF WE DOWN THE LINE GET, UH, A LEAK, THEN YEAH, UM, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THOSE.
I JUST THINK WE, WE GO THE EXTRA MEASURE HERE FOR THE RECHARGE ZONE BECAUSE WE DO TEST PRESSURE TEST OUR LINES ON NEW INSTALLS.
AND WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE CONSENT DECREE WHERE WE'RE SPENDING HALF A BILLION DOLLARS NEW CONSTRUCTION OF SEWER LINES TO TRY TO TAKE CARE OF THAT.
AND SO, UM, I HEARD YOU JUST SAY YOU HAVE A CONSENT, CONSENT DECREE, A CONSENT DECREE FROM DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE THROUGH E P A THAT WE HAVE TO REPLACE LIKE A HALF BILLION DOLLARS WORTH OF LINES.
AND SO THAT IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS.
SO WE ARE TRYING TO DO OUR PART.
YEAH, BUT MOST OF THOSE ARE CLAY LINES THAT ARE HUNDREDS OF YEARS OLD, CORRECT? OH NO.
NOW WE DO HAVE SOME OF THOSE, BUT WE HAVE SOME LINES THAT ARE, ARE YOUNGER THAN THAT.
SO, UM, MOST OF 'EM ARE NOT CLAY LINES.
YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS AGAIN, ONE OF THOSE ONES THAT, THAT A LOT OF THE TIMES WHEN I'VE SEEN SOME OF THE OTHER TESTS, YOU KNOW, WITH THE, THE BUILD THE BUILDING INSIDE THE BUILDING TEST OTHER JURISDICTIONS, SOMETIMES THEY'LL JUST PUT THE, PUT THE BALLOON OUT WHERE IT HITS THE CITY, MAINE AND THEN HIT THE WHOLE THING ALL AT THE SAME TIME WITH A SINGLE TEST.
YEAH, I, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THIS IS THE RULE, THIS IS THE WAY IT'S BEEN FOREVER.
THERE'S, YOU, YOU HAVE NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER SAYING THIS IS A SOLUTION LOOKING FOR A PROBLEM.
YOU, YOU HAVE NO DATA THAT SAYS
[01:25:01]
SAWS HAS BEEN OUT AND FOUND X NUMBER, YOU KNOW, NOT EVEN ONE SEWER LINE BECAUSE OF A GLUED FITTING, UNGLUED FITTING THAT'S LEAKING INTO THE AQUIFER.CORRECT? UM, I, NOT, NOT WITH ME OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN PROVIDE IT TO YOU, BUT WHEN, ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS TRYING TO BE PROACTIVE AND HAVING AN EXTRA MEASURE IN THERE.
WE DO HAVE EXTRA CASE, UM, ISSUES WHERE WE CONCRETE AND CASE LINES.
UM, THE PIPE, UH, TYPE IS, IS A HIGHER SPECIFICATION.
SO WE DO TRY TO DO GO ABOVE AND BEYOND, AND THIS IS FOR THE RECHARGE ZONE ONLY DOING AN EXTRA STEP TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A LEAK.
AND IF IT'S A MATTER OF THE ABILITY TO GET TO THAT, IS THERE A WAY THEN THAT A PLUMBER COULD RUN THE TEST WITHOUT THE INSPECTOR COMING OUT THERE CERTIFY IT AND THEN IT BE LOOKED AT, AT THE C OF O TIME TO MAKE SURE IT WAS TESTED? IS THAT A POSSIBILITY? THAT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD ADD IN A ADDITIONAL COST ONTO IT.
I CAN TELL YOU FROM A NEW CONSTRUCTION STANDPOINT, ESPECIALLY IN THE PRODUCTION FIELD, IF YOU DID REQUIRE THE TEST AT THE END OF THE LINE AS YOU TALK, TALKED ABOUT, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A TEST.
HE NEAR THE SIX INCH LATERAL, WHICH ARE USUALLY ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE FEET DEEP DOWN A PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENT LIKE THAT.
WHENEVER THEY'RE DOING INSPECTIONS, YOU COULD ONLY IMAGINE IF IT PASSED INSPECTION.
THESE FOUNDATION CREWS COME BACK AND THEY'LL COVER ALL THAT UP.
AND I'VE SEEN IT WHERE THEY'VE HAD TEST BALLS JAMMED UP IN THERE OR THEY PULLED THE TEST BALL OUT AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CLEAN OUT CAP NEAR 'EM.
AND YOU END UP CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS WITH THESE SEWERS.
YOU HAVE LEAKS WITH THE SEWERS BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN OPEN LINE IN THERE AT THAT POINT.
OR THEY GOT A TEST BALL JAMMED IN THERE AND YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT UNTIL LATER ON THAT THEY FIND THOSE.
SO, YOU KNOW, THIS CODE'S BEEN IN HERE.
I MEAN, SINCE I'VE BEEN DOING PLUMBING IN THE NINETIES IN SAN ANTONIO.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION IS JUST KEEP IT, AND THE THING WITH THE RECHARGE ZONE IS, YOU KNOW, WHICH, WHICH INSPECTORS, YOU GOT DIFFERENT INSPECTORS, WHICH AREAS IS IT GONNA BE? IS IT, YOU KNOW, IS THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, IS THIS ONE A DIFFERENT AREA? SO TO KEEP IT UNIFORM, I JUST RECOMMEND KEEP THE RECOMMENDATION.
DID I CATCH THAT WHEN YOU SAID, DO WE WANT TO KEEP THE AMENDMENT AND THEN MAYBE ADD A QUICK LINE THAT SAYS ACCEPT WHERE WE'RE IN THE SAWS RECHARGE? NO, I WANT TO KEEP THE AMENDMENT JUST LIKE IT IS.
IT'S, IT'S, I AGREE THERE'S NO DATA TO SUPPORT A CHANGE.
IF THEY HAD DATA SAYING, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR ONE GLUED FITTING, BUT, BUT SAWS IS GONNA FORCE THE ISSUE ANYWAY IN THE
THEY, THEY CAN'T, IT'S NOT PART OF THE, THE CITY ORDINANCE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO DO THAT.
UNLESS THEY GO BACK TO COUNSEL TO GET AUTHORIZATION TO REQUIRE THAT, WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONNA GET.
I I I MEAN ALL YOU'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, EACH ONE OF THESE LITTLE STEPS THAT YOU ADD, YOU KNOW, JUST KEEPS RUNNING THE PRICE AND AFFORDABILITY OUT.
I I'M NOT, I'M NOT GONNA DISAGREE.
I JUST WAS GONNA SAY, I GUESS I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU REQUI THAT SAS IS GONNA FORCE THIS TEST BY A DIFFERENT STATUTE AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE'VE GOT IN THE BUILDING CODE WOULD FORCE THIS ISSUE IN THE RECHARGE ZONE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD WANT TO START HAVING SOME DIFFERENT RULES.
I THINK WE WORKED WITH THE CITY HERE AND IF IT DOESN'T OCCUR, THEN IT DOESN'T OCCUR.
YEAH, I, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I WAS SAYING IF SAWS REQUIRES THIS IN THEIR CODE, IT WAS JUST A PIECE.
IT WAS JUST A PIECE TO, TO EITHER REFER TO SAWS FOR WHERE THIS TEST IS REQUIRED OR JUST THAT WAY IF SOMEBODY'S LOOKING IN ONE PLACE, THEY'RE NOT DIGGING IN MULTIPLE.
THAT WAS THE ONLY REASON I WAS GONNA SUGGEST IT.
YEAH, I I MEAN I, I THINK WE LEAVE THE AMENDMENT JUST LIKE IT IS ON BOTH OF THEM.
I BELIEVE YOU HAVE CONSENSUS AMONG THE MEMBERS TO DO THAT.
I, I'D LIKE TO AGAIN, TALK ABOUT THE FORCE MAIN SEPARATELY.
I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT DEAL WHERE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A GRAVITY SEWER AND YOU HAVE A DRIP, IT'S JUST GONNA MAKE THE GROUND WET.
IF YOU'VE GOT A FORCE SEWER AND YOU GOT A LEAK, IT'S GONNA MAKE A WELL A LOT QUICKER.
MAKE A SINK HOLE OR BLOW UP ABOVE ABOVE GRADE WHEN THE, WHEN THE PUMP KICKS ON.
SO AGAIN, I MIGHT ARGUE THAT WE WANT TO KEEP THAT TEST ON THE FORCE TEST.
'CAUSE ANYWHERE WE HAVE A SEWAGE EJECTOR THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE DOING THAT.
BUT THEY'VE HAD THIS SINCE THE 1990S, THERE HASN'T BEEN A PROBLEM.
THAT'S WHY I GO BACK TO, THAT'S WHY IT'S IN THE BIGGER BUILDING CODE.
IT'S, THESE ARE ENFORCED EVERYWHERE ELSE.
BUT AGAIN, I'M GONNA LOSE THIS VOTE, SO I'M JUST GONNA BE QUIET ON IT.
BUT AGAIN, I WOULD JUST ASK PEOPLE ON A FORCED MAINE, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO AVOID
[01:30:01]
NOT DOING THAT TEST.I CAN TELL YOU WITH THE FORCE MAIN, I CAN ONLY THINK OF A COUPLE SITUATIONS.
UM, A LOT OF THESE FORCE MAINS ARE GOING BACK THROUGH THE HOUSE.
IF THEY ARE RAN INTO THE, TO THE BUILDING, IF THAT'S WHERE YOU'VE GOT, LET'S SAY YOU'VE GOT A SEWER COMING OUT THE FRONT AND THEN THEY'VE GOT SOME KIND OF BASEMENT IN THE BACK, UM, YOU'LL HAVE A SUMP PUMP OR A GRINDER IN THE BACK AND IT'LL PUSH BACK UP.
YOU'LL HAVE A VENT GO BACK INSIDE THE HOUSE, YOU'LL HAVE YOUR FORCED MAN GO BACK THROUGH THAT HOUSE.
AND I, THAT WILL BE TESTED AT THAT POINT FOR IT.
UM, I DON'T SEE A LOT OF SCENARIOS WHERE YOU'D HAVE JUST A FORCED MAN GOING OUT INTO THE STREET AGAIN.
THEY'D BE GOING THROUGH THE BUILDING AND ALL THAT WOULD BE TESTED THROUGH THE BUILDING.
AND THOSE REQUIRE DIFFERENT FITTINGS AS WELL.
YOU GOTTA HAVE PRESSURIZED FITTINGS FOR THEM AS, AS WELL ON THERE.
SO, UM, THE FORCED SEWER TEST, I SEE IT BEING DONE BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE GOING THROUGH A BUILDING.
THEY WILL BE INSPECTED AT THAT POINT, AND IT WILL BE TESTED, IT WILL BE FILLED.
I MEAN, IT'S, AND THE FORCED DRAIN IS WHERE YOU PUMP.
LET'S SAY YOU HAD A SUMP PUMP.
LET'S SAY YOU HAD A, IN OTHER WORDS INSTEAD, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DRAIN BY GRAVITY, YOU GOTTA PUT A, A LIFT.
YEAH, I, I MEAN THEY'RE UNDER PRESSURE, BUT THEY'RE PUMPING INTO AN OPEN LINE THAT IT, YOU KNOW, EVERYWHERE I'VE SEEN 'EM USE, AT LEAST IN OUR RESIDENTIAL STUFF, IT'S RUNNING, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA GO BACK INTO THE BUILDING.
AND SO IT'S GONNA BE TESTED AT THAT POINT, AT THE ROUGHING STAGE OF IT, IT'S RUNNING, YOU KNOW, IT RUNS OUT TO THE FRONT OF THE THING AND THEN IT JUST LIFTS IT UP TO GET IT INTO THE SEWER LINE BECAUSE THEY DRAIN BY GRAVITY TO A POINT AND THEN THEY PUMP IT.
BUT IT'S PUMPING INTO AN OPEN, IT'S, IT'S NOT UNDER PRE, IT'S REALLY NOT UNDER PRESSURE BECAUSE IT'S MIKE MORALES.
UH, DURING OUR TIME OF INSPECTION ON THERE, WE'LL HAVE THEM FILL IT ON, FILL IT UP, KICK ON THE PUMP, WATCH A DISCHARGE THERE.
BUT TO PUT A 30, UH, 42 OR 10 FOOT HEAD, NORMALLY IT'S BY A PUMP DISCHARGE THAT WILL GIVE THAT TEST ON IT.
SO LIKE SPENCER SAID, IT'S GONNA GO THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE OR, UM, LIKE MARK SAID, IT'S EITHER GONNA GO FROM POINT A IN THE YARD TO THE DISCHARGE POINT.
SO WE WILL, UH, TURN THE UNIT ON AND, AND CHECK, UH, TO SEE IF ANYTHING'S HAPPENING ON THERE UNTIL, UNTIL IT CLOGS SOMEWHERE OUT IN THE LINE AND THEN GOES FIVE POUNDS OVER YOU BA BASICALLY, WHERE I'VE SEEN THESE TESTED IS THEY DEADHEAD THE PUMP, YOU KNOW, PL PLUG IT WHEREVER IT'S GONNA DISCHARGE, KICK THE PUMP ON, LET THE PUMP DEADHEAD, MAKE SURE NOTHING BLOWS APART.
THAT'S, THAT'S AGAIN, HOW I'VE KIND OF SEEN 'EM TESTED IN OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
I KNOW THE ONES WE INSTALL HAVE ALARMS ON 'EM.
I, I'VE GOT ONES THAT HAVE DOUBLE ALARM SYSTEMS WITH DOUBLE PUMPS.
THOSE ARE PRETTY MUCH ALL I INSTALL ON ANY SYSTEM.
SO YOU'RE GONNA FIND OUT BEFORE TALKING WATER, LOW WATER, OR ARE YOU TALKING A PRESSURE? WELL, THE PUMP ITSELF, I MEAN, ON A A SUMP PUMP, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PRESSURE, IT'S GONNA BE PRESSURIZED ONCE IT GOES THROUGH IT TO PUMP IT BACK UP INTO IT.
BUT I'VE NEVER, I HAVE NOT, I'M UNAWARE OF A SEWAGE EJECTOR PUMP OR A SUMP PUMP THAT HAS A DISCHARGE PRESSURE ALARM THAT'S ALWAYS JUST HIGH WATER OR LOW WATER.
SO IF, IF A IF IT CLOGS, THE PUMP WILL KICK ON, TRY TO RUN AND YOU'LL EVENTUALLY, YOU'LL HIT HIGH WATER.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE NOTIFICATION I'M MORE TALKING ABOUT OF IF YOU GET A CLOG OUT DOWNSTREAM AND YOU DEADHEAD THE PUMP, YOU RUN UP ON THE CURVE, YOUR PRESSURE GOES UP AND YOU CAN POP A FITTING APART.
THAT'S WHY THIS IS FIVE POUNDS OVER OVER THE, THE PUMP PRESSURE.
SO AGAIN, I I, I DON'T NEED TO BELABOR IT IF I'LL LOSE THE VOTE.
OKAY, THEN LET'S, IF YOU'RE FOR IT, THEN I'M OKAY.
WE GOT, I JUST NEED ONE MORE TEST.
I CAN THINK BACK IN THE LAST 10, 15 YEARS SINCE I'VE INSTALLED, I'VE INSTALLED SEVERAL OF THESE PUMPS THROUGHOUT.
I PROBABLY GOT GOING RIGHT NOW 150 HOU HOMES, AND I'VE GOT PROBABLY ABOUT EIGHT HOMES THAT HAVE 'EM ON IT.
YOU KNOW, JUST GOING RIGHT NOW, I, YOU KNOW, SURPRISINGLY ENOUGH I DON'T GET CALLBACKS ON THESE OF, YOU KNOW, THE ALARMS GOING OFF AND ISSUES WITH THEM, YOU KNOW, AND I ATTRIBUTED THAT TO MY PLUMBERS TOO OUT THERE AND INSTALLING 'EM CORRECTLY.
BUT, UM, I DON'T SEE A REAL ISSUE WITH THEM.
HAVE Y'ALL HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THIS AT ALL? NO, SIR.
AND I SUGGEST WE JUST LEAVE IT LIKE, IT'S,
[01:35:02]
OKAY, WHAT DOES EVERYBODY SAY? OKAY, FOR NUMBER, UH, 11 AND 12, WE'LL LEAVE THOSE, UH, AMENDMENTS AS THEY ARE IN THE 2018.THE NEXT ITEM WE HAD TABLED WAS NUMBER 13 FOR CONDENSATE DISPOSAL.
SO I TOOK A STAB AT SOME PROPOSED LANGUAGE HERE.
WE BRING UP THE AMENDMENT TO HELP SATISFY, UM, THAT THE CON STATE DISPOSAL IS FOR NEWLY CONSTRUCTED COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, AND THEN ADDED THAT, UH, EXISTING COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS SHALL BE PERMITTED TO FOLLOW MARK.
EVERYBODY AGREE WITH THAT ONE? WE'RE GOOD.
AND THEN THE NEXT ITEM WE HAD WAS FOR, UM, THE CONDO STATE DISPOSAL.
WE WERE PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO TAKE OUT, EXCEPT WE'RE DISCHARGING TO GRADE OUTDOORS, GO UP A LITTLE BIT, THAT ONE, BUT THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE SAME THING, BECAUSE IF YOU CAN'T DISCHARGE IT TO GRADE OUTDOORS, YOU CAN'T COMPLY WITH 34.
SO WE DID PUT HERE, EXCEPT WE'RE INSTALLED PER THE SAWS ORDINANCE FOR, UM, COLLECTION, THE POINT OF DISCHARGE SHALL BE LOCATED IN THE SAME OCCUPANCY.
SO WE JUST, WE AGAIN REFERENCED THE, OKAY, SO FOR 13, UM, ACTUALLY WE, UH, WE'RE GONNA KEEP THAT AMENDMENT AND WITH MODIFICATIONS, AND FOR 14, WE WILL PROPOSE THAT AMENDMENT WITH MODIFICATIONS REVIEWED TODAY.
SO THE NEXT ITEM I SHOW THAT WE WERE TO REVISIT WAS ITEM 30 WAS OUR PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO HAVE THE WATER SERVICE PIPE BE AT LEAST THE SAME SIZE AS THE LARGEST WATER DISTRIBUTION PIPE.
UH, WE, WE AGREE THAT THAT'S A DESIGN ISSUE AND WE ARE RESCINDING OUR PROPOSED AMENDMENT IF YOU GUYS ARE ALL IN AGREEMENT, AGREEMENT WITH THAT.
SO WE STAFF NO LONGER WISHES TO PROPOSE THAT AMENDMENT NUMBER 30.
SO ITEM 30, YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE THAT IF, YEAH, YEAH, THE TWO INCH LINE INSIDE THE BUILDING, YOU'D HAVE TO DO A TWO INCH SERVICE, EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD MAYBE GET AWAY WITH AN INCH AND A HALF SERVICE TYPE STUFF, BUT LEAVE IT UP TO THE ENGINEER DESIGNING THE BUILDING OR THE, OR THAT SIDE OF THINGS.
SO YOU GUYS AGREE THAT WE, UH, DO NOT PROPOSE THAT AMENDMENT, SO WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA PUT THAT NO, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS NOT APPROVED TO PROPOSE THAT AMENDMENT.
SO THE NEXT PAGE, WE SPOKE ON THOSE BACKFLOW ITEMS. CRYSTAL, ON THAT ONE, ARE YOU JUST GONNA REMOVE THAT FROM THE TABLE AS IT GETS PRESENTED RATHER THAN IT'S REJECTED? BECAUSE THAT MAY HAVE DISCUSSION AT THE FULL BOARD.
IF YOU'RE NOT PRESENTING IT, IT'S ACTUALLY OFF THE TABLE.
SURE, YEAH, WE CAN REMOVE THAT COMPLETELY.
SO, UM, THE NEXT ITEMS WE HAD WERE ACTUALLY GETTING INTO THE PLUMBING SECTIONS, THE PLUMBING CHAPTERS OF THE RESIDENTIAL CODE.
UM, SO THAT, ACTUALLY I'M GONNA JUMP TO, UM, ITEM 92, YOU GUYS.
SO BECAUSE THIS IS A PROPOSED AMENDMENT FOR THE I P C, SO THIS IS, UH, SAUL SPOKE WITH US LAST TIME ABOUT, UH, THE TESTING OF THE LEAD PIPE WHEN IT'S EXPOSED FOR ANY CONSTRUCTION PRIOR TO 2014.
SO WE HAVE, UM, WORKED WITH THEM TO, UH, PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT TO THE TESTING SECTION IN THE I P C.
SO THE SECTION FOR WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM TEST, UH, WE'RE ADDING A SUBSECTION TO THAT, AND YOU GUYS CAN READ THAT VERBIAGE.
UM, THAT STARTS WITH UPON EXPOSURE.
SO CAN, CAN SOMEBODY, CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN WHAT THEY
[01:40:01]
WANT US TO DO? SCOTT HALTE SAWS? UM, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS WHENEVER, WHENEVER THE LINE IS EXPOSED, UM, OR THERE'S A REPLACEMENT OR IT'S GONNA BE INSPECTED, BUT WHEN IT'S EXPOSED THAT A TESTING BE DONE ON IT, WE'RE THINKING THAT A SWAB TEST WILL BE ACCEPTABLE TO T C E Q.UM, BUT TO DO A TEST ON IT AND THEN GET PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE.
WHAT ARE YOU TESTING FOR LEAD? THIS IS, UH, JUST REAL QUICKLY, JUST TO KINDA GIVE YOU A SUMMARY REAL QUICK OF A PRESENTATION WE GAVE LAST TIME.
UM, E P A AFTER FLINT, MICHIGAN HAS REVISITED THE LEAD AND COPPER RULE AND THEY HAVE AMENDED IT.
UH, IT WENT INTO EFFECT IN DECEMBER.
IT HAS SEVERAL THINGS WE HAVE TO DO.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO DO IS IN THREE YEARS, BY OCTOBER 24TH, UH, 2024, WE HAVE TO HAVE INVENTORIED ALL THE LINES FROM THE POINT WHERE IT ENTERS A BUILDING TO THE POINT WHERE IT TIES INTO THE MAIN AND FIND OUT IF THERE'S LEAD.
UM, WE WILL USE WHATEVER DOCUMENTATION WE HAVE.
UM, WE WILL, UM, USE, UH, CONSTRUCTION SITES WHERE LINES HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.
BUT, UH, T C E Q HAS MADE IT CLEAR, IF WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE POTHOLING, UM, ON PEOPLE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT, UH, LINE IS MADE OF.
AND SO WE'RE ASKING FOR THIS AMENDMENT.
UM, THERE'S STILL SOME QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED WITH T C E Q, BUT THE TIME IS THE CLOCK IS ALREADY TICKING ON US FOR OUR THREE YEARS TO GET OUR INVENTORY DONE.
THIS IS ON THE SERVICE SIDE ONLY.
CORRECT? THIS IS NOT PIPING INSIDE OF A HOME.
THIS IS TO THE POINT WHERE IT ENTERS, STARTS TO ENTER THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR THE TEST? IT WOULD'VE TO BE THE CUSTOMER THEN I THINK RIGHT THEN AND THERE, MARK AND I WILL PROBABLY BOTH GO.
SO WHY, BECAUSE THERE'S LEAD AND COPPER? NO, UH, LEAD, UH, LEAD IN SOLDER LEAD, THERE WAS LEAD PIPE AT ONE TIME THAT WAS USED.
IT WAS MOSTLY BANNED UP UNTIL ABOUT 19 86, 87, BUT THERE WAS STILL SOME LEAD IN FIXTURES AND SO FORTH.
AND SO T C E Q HAS TOLD US THAT, UM, ANYTHING PRIOR TO 2014, WE HAVE TO INVENTORY AND FIND THE LEAD AND WE HAVE TO REMOVE IT, AND IT HAS TO ALL BE REMOVED IN 15 YEARS.
YEAH, I DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A PROBLEM PERSONALLY WITH THIS PROVIDED THAT YOU PROVIDE BEFORE WE ADOPT THIS, WHAT, WHAT THE PROCESS IS GONNA BE.
AND THAT GETS INCORPORATED INTO THE RULE BECAUSE I, I JUST THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM IF I HAVE TO WAIT AROUND TO MESS WITH IT.
AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU FIND YOU SWAB OUTSIDE OF THE PIPE AND IT'S LIT? IT, UM, IT DEPENDS KIND OF THE SITUATION, BUT WE WILL PROBABLY, UM, REMOVE IT.
WE HAVE TO, OKAY, WE HAVE TO OFFER, IF WE'RE DOING WORK AND WE EXPOSE OUR SERVICE LATERAL AND WE FIND LEAD, OR WE FIND LEAD ON THEIR SIDE, UM, THEN WE HAVE TO OFFER TO REMOVE IT AT THEIR COST AND AT WHOSE COST? AT THE CUSTOMER'S COST.
THEN I, YEAH, AT, AT THIS POINT, WE, WE INSTALLED STUFF THAT WAS LEGAL AT THE TIME IT WAS INSTALLED, THAT WAS AN APPROVED PRODUCT.
AND YOU KNOW, IT, YOU KNOW, YOU'D BE BETTER OFF JUST TESTING THE WATER INSIDE THE HOUSE THAN YOU ARE MESSING WITH THE PIPE BECAUSE IT'S GONNA HAVE TO COME OUT.
IT, THE ONLY OTHER WAY IS WE HAVE TO DO EX EXPENSIVE PIPE LOOP TESTS.
WE HAVE TO INSTALL ORTHOPHOSPHATE TREATMENT SYSTEMS. WE, WHICH ENVIRONMENTALLY, IF THEY GET INTO THE CREEKS AND WE DO A LOT OF DRAINING OF OUR WATER LINES, UM, TO THE CREEK, OUR TANKS, UM, IT COULD CAUSE ALGAE BLOOMS AND THEN WE HAVE TO TAKE IT OUT AT THE TREATMENT PLANT.
SO IT WOULD BE, IT'S SO EXPENSIVE THAT OTHER CITIES LIKE DENVER AND THAT HAVE CHOSEN TO RE PULL OUT THE PIPE.
[01:45:01]
SO I, I GOT NO PROBLEM WITH YOU PULLING OUT THE PIPE AS LONG AS YOU'RE PAYING TO HAVE THE PIPE PULLED OUT.AND WHY, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT Y'ALL CAN REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE MAKING A REPAIR ON A ONE INCH PIECE OF PIPE, THAT THE WHOLE THING TO THE HOUSE HAS TO BE PULLED TO.
I, I MEAN, 90% OF EVERYTHING, 90% OF EVERY SINGLE HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT PROBABLY FROM THE NINETIES ON USES P P V C WATER SERVICE THROUGH THE HOUSE.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, AND, AND WE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, EXCEPT WE HAVE TO PROVE THAT WE CAN'T JUST SAY OUR DATABASE SAYS THAT IT, IT'S P V C THERE.
WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY HAVE DOCUMENTATION LIKE TAP RECORDS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT TO T C Q OR HAVE A POTHOLE A TESTING, A PHYSICAL TESTING AND PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF IT.
I MEAN, YOU, YOU HAVE, YOU, YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S BEING USED TO FEED THE HOUSE RIGHT AT THE METER, BECAUSE WHATEVER'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE METER IS WHAT'S THERE IN THE HOUSE.
AND WE ARE TALKING, THAT'S ANOTHER STEP WE'RE TRYING TO DO.
AND WE ARE TALKING TO A COMPANY THAT READS OUR METERS ABOUT COULD THEY DO A SWAB TEST ON EACH SIDE, BUT THAT WILL NOT BE GOOD ENOUGH ON A LOT OF HOUSES WHERE THE LION'S LONG, IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA BE GOOD ENOUGH.
THEY'RE GONNA WANT SOMETHING FURTHER IN THE MIDDLE BETWEEN THE HOUSE.
AND SO, SO WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR THE POTHOLE? WE WOULD, SO THAT, THAT'S WHERE I SAY THAT'S, TO ME THAT'S THE, IS IF I'M GONNA LET MY WATERLINE LEAK AS LONG AS I CAN, BECAUSE I KNOW IN THE NEXT THREE YEARS YOU'RE GONNA GO DO THAT AND YOU'RE GONNA PAY THE MONEY TO HAVE A POTHOLE AS OPPOSED TO WHY WOULD I CALL AND HAVE ONE OF THESE GUYS COME OUT AND, AND REPAIR MY WATERLINE AND CHARGE ME THREE OR COUP TWO, THREE, $400 TO HAVE MY WATERLINE TESTED? THAT, THAT'S WHAT I SAY.
IF SAWS WANTS TO PAY FOR THIS, I, IT'S IN, TO ME, IT'S IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO ALLOW THE PLUMBERS TO ASK FOR A REIMBURSEMENT FROM SAWS FOR THIS TESTING SO THAT SAWS DOESN'T HAVE TO COME OUT AND POTHOLE AND DO ALL THIS TESTING.
TO ME, IT'S NOT ON THE HOMEOWNER.
AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LAST PERSONAL COST, YOU KNOW, COULD BE TWO TO $3,000 TO GO REPAIR A WATER SERVICE OR REPLACE A WATER SERVICE.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE IF SAUCE IS GONNA COME OUT, AND I'M KIND OF LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE HERE, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE KIND OF WASHING THEIR HANDS OF IT SAYING, WELL, IF YOU GUYS CAN'T AFFORD IT, YOU GUYS KNOW ABOUT IT AND YOU CAN'T HAVE A LAWSUIT ON US AGAINST IT.
NOW, I MEAN THAT THE E P A RULE SPECIFICALLY SAYS THE CUSTOMER PAYS ON THEIR SIDE.
WHERE ARE WE, WHERE ARE WE DEFINING, AGAIN, DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS DEFINE IT IN DIFFERENT PLACES.
I MEAN, ARE WE TALKING, BECAUSE WHAT I, WHAT I THOUGHT I'VE HEARD YOU SAYING IS THIS IS FROM THE METER TO THE CITY'S LINE OUT IN THE STREET.
WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT PIGTAIL SERVICE LATERAL FROM THE MAIN TO THE METER.
AND IF THERE'S LEAD THERE, WE HAVE TO REPLACE IT AND WE HAVE TO HAVE PROOF THAT THERE'S NO LEAD THERE.
IF ANYTHING'S UNKNOWN, THEN IT'S CONSIDERED LEAD BY E P A AND IT HAS TO BE PROVED NOT TO BE LEAD.
IF WE'VE HAD GALVANIZED AND IT'S HAD LEAD ABOVE IT, THEN WE HAVE TO REMOVE THAT GALVANIZED ALSO.
AND SO WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE POINT FROM THE METER TO THE POINT IT ENTERS THE HOUSE, ALL OF THAT.
SO WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO WHEN THERE'S A HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITS TAKEN OFF THE MARKET BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA PAY THE FOUR OR $5,000 TO REPAIR THE WATERLINE? REPLACE THE WATERLINE.
AND I WAS GONNA ASK THAT QUESTION.
IS THIS, IS THIS PROCESS FORCING THE REPLACEMENT OF THE WATERLINE? 'CAUSE AGAIN, WHAT I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAID IS YOU JUST HAVE TO VERIFY THE OWNER AND YOU HAVE TO OFFER TO REPLACE WE, BUT IT'S THE HOMEOWNER'S DECISION TO REPLACE IT OR NOT.
WE WOULD, UH, AND I'M, LAST TIME WE WERE VERY TENTATIVE WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE, UH, E P A OR T C E Q IS NOW DOING THESE RULES.
THEY HAVE A COMMITTEE THAT'S FORMING TO ANSWER SOME OF THE, THE QUESTIONS.
UM, BUT UH, I MEAN, MY UNDERSTANDING OR WHAT I BELIEVE IS WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DOCUMENT IF THEY SAID NO, BUT THEN WE MAY END UP HAVING TO DO THE EXPENSIVE TREATMENT, POSSIBLY THAT IT'S GONNA COST CUSTOMERS A LOT OF MONEY.
I MEAN THE ORTHOPHOSPHATE TREATMENT.
BUT, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT T C Q IS GONNA ALLOW US TO, OR E P A WILL ALLOW US TO LEAVE LEAD IN THE GROUND WITH EITHER REMOVING IT OR DOING EXPENSIVE TREATMENT.
SO WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LEAD
[01:50:01]
IN THE, IN THE GROUND AND LEAD ALL OVER THE HOUSE? BECAUSE CHANCES ARE IF THEY USE SOMETHING, WHATEVER THEY USED IN THE GROUND IS ALL OVER THE HOUSE TOO.UM, WELL LET, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LEAD PAINT? NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT LEAD IN THE COPPER SOLDER, THE LEAD AND THE FIXTURE.
I MEAN, UP UNTIL, UP UNTIL FIVE YEARS AGO, I BELIEVE IT WAS FIVE YEARS AGO, THERE EVERY FIXTURE THAT WAS MADE, EVERY PLUMBING FIXTURE THAT SUPPLIES WATER IN YOUR HOUSE HAD SOME KIND OF LEAD IN IT.
BECAUSE WE WENT THROUGH A PROCESS OF HAVING TO SWITCH OUR FAUCETS.
YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE BUYING TO A LEAD FREE, LEAD CERTIFIED FREE FAUCET.
SO WHAT, WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO IF YOU'RE NOT DOING THE REST OF THE PLUMBING? THE THE RULE IS TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
AND I GUESS TO ANSWER IT WOULD BE TO SAY AT LEAST REMOVE SOME OF THE LEAD OUT.
IF IT'S IN THEIR HOUSE, THEN THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE OWNER.
BUT I MEAN, THIS HAS CONSIDERABLE EFFECTS ON KIDS' GROWTH DEVELOPMENT.
I, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE ARGUING THAT LEAD'S GETTING LEAD OUT IS IS IS A BAD THING.
IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, I THINK AS A, AS A SOMEWHAT OF AN INFORMED HOMEOWNER, I MEAN, AGAIN, IF I'VE, MY BROTHER'S HOUSE, ONE OF HIS OLD HOUSES HAD A LEAD SERVICE.
HE TESTED, YOU KNOW, ONCE, TWICE A YEAR JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE LEAD IN THE WATER COMING IN THE HOUSE AND THEY DIDN'T.
AND SO IT STILL, TO THIS DAY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT HOUSE STILL HAS A LEAD, A LEAD SERVICE TO IT.
I'M HESITANT TO LET SAWS SHIFT THE BLAME ALL THE WAY INTO THE HOMEOWNERS FOR SOMETHING THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS PUSHING DOWN.
I MEAN, IF, IF YOU WANT TO DO ORTHOPHOSPHATE TREAT TREATMENT, I UNDERSTAND THERE'S RAMIFICATIONS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, BUT LIKE I SAID, TO ME, THIS AMENDMENT, I'M FOR THE AMENDMENT, IT JUST NEEDS, THE PLUMBERS NEED TO BE ABLE TO REIMBURSE STRAIGHT TO YOU.
I DON'T EVEN WANT THE HOMEOWNER TO DEAL WITH IT.
IT SHOULD JUST BE THAT THEY, YOU GUYS NEGOTIATE A SET CHARGE FOR 50 BUCKS FOR THE TEST AND, AND YOU KNOW, SET UP A WEBSITE AND THEN THE PLUMBERS CAN DO IT AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO CHARGE THE HOMEOWNER.
IS IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO GO BACK AND I, I, I JUST DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GET THAT ANSWER FOR YOU ABOUT WHETHER THERE'D BE REIMBURSEMENT.
THERE COULD BE, BUT I CAN'T, I CAN'T SAY THAT TO YOU.
AND I LIKE AND SAY THAT I KNOW THAT THAT SAWS WILL DO.
I MEAN, UNTIL YOU HAVE THE WHOLE THING WORKED OUT AS TO WHAT IS GONNA BE REQUIRED AND WHAT THE RULES ARE, AND EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE.
SO THAT WHEN THAT, WHEN THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT TAKES THIS TO THE CITY COUNCIL AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY APPROVE IT AND THEN THEIR CONSTITUENTS START CALLING EVERY OTHER DAY THAT SAA IS MAKING ME SPEND $10,000 TO REPLACE A WATER LINE.
AND YOU KNOW, I I JUST THINK UNTIL THE WHOLE PROGRAM IS WORKED OUT AS TO WHO'S PAYING FOR WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO, WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE.
YOU'RE SAYING T C E Q HASN'T EVEN ISSUED THE FINAL RULES YET? OH, NO, THEY, THE RULE WAS ISSUED IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR.
AND SO SAS HAS A CHOICE OF TREATING THE WATER OR PUSHING THE WHOLE BURDEN ON TO EVERY HOMEOWNER THAT'S THERE.
WE, YES, THE FIRST THREE YEARS, WHAT WE'RE ASKING HERE IS FOR, TO HELP WITH THE INVENTORY TO FIND OUT WHERE THE LEAD IS SO WE CAN DETERMINE, AND IN THAT THREE YEARS WE HAVE TO EITHER SAY WE'RE LEAD FREE AND REMOVED, WHATEVER WE FOUND.
IF IT'S NOT THAT MUCH AND WE DON'T THINK THERE'S THAT MUCH LEAD OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, OR, UM, WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ACTION PLAN WHERE WE HAVE TO REMOVE 3% OF THE LEAD PIPE EVERY YEAR, AT LEAST.
UH, GEORGE SLEEPY, YOU KEEP SAYING LEAD PIPE, BUT WE ARE TESTING COPPER.
ARE WE TESTING COPPER FOR THE 2% LEAD? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? TWO POINTS OR ARE WE GOING AFTER THE SOLDER JOINTS TO TEST THOSE? THE PIPE, THE SOLDER POSSIBLY.
UM, THERE'S SOME OF OUR MENTIONS IN SOME OF OUR DOCUMENT ARE CONNECTORS.
AND SO ANYTHING WHERE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A 2.5% LEAD, THEN THAT'S PROBABLY THE TARGET FOR BEING REMOVED.
SO THE COPPER, A COPPER SERVICE THAT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT COPPER PIPE HAD LEAD IN THE COPPER.
SO, UH, WHAT WAS IT, 1986 WHEN THOSE THINGS CHANGED.
[01:55:01]
WOULD BE HOMES THAT ARE OLDER THAN ROUGHLY THAT, THAT WOULD BE OUR MAIN CONCERN.WE, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE THINK THE MAIN TARGET AREA IS GONNA BE, IS INSIDE FOUR 10 FOR THE MOST PART.
BUT T C Q AND IT WAS A SURPRISE TO US WHEN THEY KIND OF DID THE OPENING UP OF THE RULE SAID 2014 IS THE DATE AND BEFORE THAT.
SO WHAT THAT IMPLIES MARK, IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT WOULD BE A, ONCE WE ESTABLISH WHATEVER THAT DATE IS AND THOSE PARTICULAR PROPERTIES THAT WERE BUILT BEFORE, ROUGHLY THEY'RE SAYING 2014, I'M THINKING 2000.
I MEAN, UH, 1986 ISH WOULD BE THE, THE BIG IMPACT.
SO IT WOULDN'T BE THE ENTIRE CITY AND IT WOULDN'T BE, EVERY PROJECT WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A COPPER RIPPED OUT.
IT'S THE MOST AFFORDABLE PART OF THE CITY WHERE THE, WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY LEAST LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO PAY THE $5,000.
SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE TAKE THIS OUT UNTIL SUCH TIME, IF SOS WANTS TO REPRESENT IT LATER WITH WHAT THE FULL PLAN IS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST TESTING, IT'S WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE TEST.
WHAT THEN? AND, AND EXACTLY WHO'S GONNA PAY AND HOW IS IT GONNA WORK AND WHAT THE REQUIRE, I MEAN, ARE YOU ALL TAKING AN ORDINANCE TO COUNSEL ON THIS? WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF KIND OF INTRODUCING THIS OUT TO THE BOARD BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, THE, THE CLOCK HAS STARTED TICKING FOR US ON THIS.
WE, WE HAD THE THREE YEARS TO GET THIS INVENTORY DONE.
BUT I WOULD ALSO URGE YOU STRONGLY TO REACH OUT TO THE STAKEHOLDERS AND INFORM THEM THAT THIS IS COMING BE, BECAUSE I'M JUST TELLING YOU, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BUNCH OF UPSET POLITICIANS WHEN THEIR CONSTITUENTS START HOUNDING THEM BECAUSE SAS IS MAKING THEM SPEND 10 GRAND.
AND LET ME SAY WE HAVE BEEN, WE'VE STARTED MEETINGS WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
'CAUSE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAS TO BE VERY TIED INTO THIS.
'CAUSE WE'RE THE EXPERTS MORE ON HOW TO GET WATER FROM A TO B, BUT WE'RE NOT THE EXPERTS ON THE HEALTH EFFECTS.
I'M NOT, THOSE AREN'T THE STAKEHOLDERS I'M TALKING ABOUT.
I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE COMMUNITY AND THE PLUMBING COMMUNITY AND ANYBODY THAT'S GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS TO, TO LET THEM, BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE NEWS TO EVERYBODY THAT THIS IS, I MEAN, YOU, YOU GET THIS TEST AND YOU TO, TO YOUR POINT, YOU GET THIS TEST NOW, YOU GOTTA DISCLOSE WHEN YOU GO TO SELL THE HOUSE THAT THERE'S LEAD PRESENT.
WELL THERE'S BEEN DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.
'CAUSE WE HAVE TO PROVIDE THE INVENTORY ON OUR, ON OUR WEBSITE WHEN IT'S DONE.
I JUST, I JUST THINK IT'S IN SAWS BEST INTEREST TO REALLY GET THIS DONE.
TO, TO HAVE THE PLUMBERS BILL SAWS DIRECTLY FOR THIS AND NOT CHARGE A HOMEOWNER FOR THIS TEST.
'CAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE SO MUCH WORK DONE UNDER THE TABLE.
WE CAN, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN, I CAN TRY TO BRING SOMETHING BACK, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD HAVE SOMETHING FOR YOU FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
WE COULD ALWAYS, UM, IF THERE IS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WE COULD WAIT TILL, UH, WE'RE PRESENT AS A FULL BOARD, UM, GOING OVER ALL OF THE AMENDMENTS.
WELL, WELL THESE, THESE PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE FULL CITY COUNCIL.
NO, THIS WILL BE, AND THE STATE SAID WE HAVE NO MONEY FOR THIS.
AN E P A IS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR THIS.
SO WE WILL, SO IT MAYBE THAT WOULD BE THE WAY TO BEST DEAL WITH IT IS TO UH, UH, GO AHEAD AND GO AHEAD AND GET THROUGH THE, THE PLUMBING CODE, GET IT, GET IT UPDATED AND SO THE CITY HAS A CURRENT CODE AND THEN COME BACK AND ADD A MANDATE OF SORTS TO WHERE, I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN MANY TIMES WHERE THE PLUMBING INDUSTRY HAS BEEN ASKED TO DO THINGS EVEN THOUGH IT'S OUTSIDE OUR, OUR CODE PARAMETERS.
SO WE COULD ALWAYS, UH, AND THE PLUMBING INDUSTRY WOULD HAVE TO CONFORM 'CAUSE YOU WOULD, UH, SAWS WOULD FORCE THE ISSUE.
UH, BASICALLY WHEN YOU'RE PUSHED AGAINST, UH, THE CORONER.
EVERYBODY ELSE IS GONNA HAVE TO COMPLY WHETHER IT'S TODAY OR TOMORROW.
SO MAYBE THAT WOULD BE THE WAY TO BEST DEAL WITH IT.
SO WE COULD GO ON, NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HOLDING THE CODE UP.
WE CAN BRING IT BACK TO THE, I GUESS YOU'RE THE BANE ADVISORY BOARD AND PUSH IT THROUGH THAT WAY.
WELL, AND I, I'D LIKE TO, 'CAUSE I CAUGHT A FEW ORS THAT I KEPT HEARING IN THERE.
YOU HAD MENTIONED OR REPLACE 3% EVERY YEAR.
[02:00:01]
THE, OR THE, THE TREATMENT AT THE WATER PLANT.AND, AND SO I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S EVEN FOR US, IF WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THAT, IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE NEED A PRESENTATION FROM YOU GUYS TO, TO RUN DOWN THIS WHOLE PIECE.
'CAUSE IF THERE'S A LOT OF ORS THAT CAN BE DONE AND IT'S, AND IT'S GETS US OUT OF THE HOMEOWNER'S NIGHTMARE AND PUTS IT BACK ON SAWS, I THINK THAT'S A PIECE THAT WE OUGHT TO KNOW TOO.
UM, I, I MEAN THIS, I, WE'RE ONLY GOING THROUGH ONE PIECE OF THIS LAW.
I MEAN, WE HAVE TO, IN THREE YEARS, HAVE A LISTING OF ALL THE SCHOOLS AND DO TESTING OF FIVE PER OR OF, UH, 20% OF THE SCHOOLS EVERY YEAR.
RESULTS GOING TO HEALTH DEPARTMENT EDUCATION MATERIALS.
WE CAN'T, WHICH IS ANOTHER QUESTION WE'LL BE GETTING CLARIFICATION IS IF YOU HAVE A LEAD PIPE, AND LET'S SAY WE DISCOVER IT AND WE ASK SOMEBODY IF THEY WANT IT REMOVED AND THEY WANT IT REMOVED, THEN WE CAN'T JUST GO IN THERE AND REMOVE IT.
WE HAVE TO EDUCATE EVERYBODY WHO'S GOING TO TAKE WATER FROM THAT PIPE.
WE WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE EDUCATION TO ALL THE RESIDENTS IN THAT DEPARTMENT AND SO FORTH.
HAVE THE SAMPLE, THEN REMOVE THE PIPE, AND THEN OFFER TO DO ANOTHER SAMPLE.
WE HAVE TO OFFER OR HAVE TO PROVIDE PITCHER FILTERS OR FILTERS FOR YOUR WATER, UH, FOR SIX MONTHS OR FOR THE LENGTH OF TIME THAT THEY HAVE THE LEAD IN THERE.
SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GONNA BE A LOT OF BUDDY FREE.
REGARDLESS, UH, ARTO PHOSPHATE, UH, IS IS A QUITE AN EXPENSIVE INJECTION TYPE OF, UH, TREATMENT.
SO, SO DOES SAN ANTONIO HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH KIDS WITH, OR ANYBODY WITH LEAD POISONING ANYMORE? I WOULD HAVE TO REFER THAT TO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
SO MAYBE IT WOULD BE GOOD TO EDUCATE IF YOU'RE BRINGING THIS BACK.
WHAT THAT I I KNOW IT'S THE RULE, BUT THERE'S OTHER WAYS OF CHANGING THE RULES.
I E UH, FILING SUIT AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR SOME.
AND I, AND MY EDGAR'S MOM WAS MY QUESTION.
AND AS RELATES TO THIS SECTION, LOOKING AT THE CODE.
SO EVERY TIME WE CUT THE WATER LINE, WE HAVE TO DO THIS KIND OF TESTING.
NO, I THINK IT'S, THIS IS IN, IT'S IN THE, THIS IS, THIS IS, NO, NO, NO.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR AMENDMENT.
I'M, I'M TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE CODE.
NOW CAN YOU, CAN YOU THROW THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT ON THE PAGE? 'CAUSE THAT'S, I THINK THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF MY QUESTION TOO, IS DOES THIS APPLY INSIDE OF THE HOUSE? SO IF WE HAVE A PLUMBER WHO IS WORKING ON A COPPER LINE INSIDE THE HOUSE, THEY HAVE TO SWAB THE SOLDER TO FIND OUT IF THERE'S LEAD PRESENT OR IS THIS ONLY ON THE SURFACE FROM THE, THE MAIN OF THE STREET TO WHERE IT POPS ABOVE GROUND IN THE HOME? AND LET ME, WE DO THE CURRENT LEAD AND TESTING PRIOR TO DECEMBER.
WE HAVE TO HAVE SO MANY VOLUNTEERS THROUGHOUT THE CITY TO DO LEAD AND COPPER TESTING.
AND THEY HAVE TO, WE, IF WE GET THOSE VOLUNTEERS, WE PROVIDE THEM A JUG.
THEY HAVE TO ESSENTIALLY DO IT MOSTLY OVERNIGHT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO NOT USE THAT WATER IN THAT HOUSE FOR SIX HOURS.
WHEN WE DO THE TESTING FOR SCHOOLS IN THREE YEARS, IT'S GONNA BE EIGHT HOURS.
AND SO THEY HAVE TO GO RIGHT TO THAT TAP AND PULL THAT SAMPLE.
SO WE ARE DOING TESTING CURRENTLY IN INSIDE THE HOUSE AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THIS, BUT THIS IS TO GET THE LEAD OUT FROM THE REST OF THE PIPE FROM MAINE TO POINT OF ENTRY ONE.
AND THEN IT WAS A ONE TIME TEST.
ONCE THE PROPERTY HAD BEEN TESTED, IT PROVED TO BE OKAY THEN THAT WAS THE ONLY TEST REQUIRED ON THAT SERVICE LINE.
UM, Y YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IF THE AMENDMENT WE WANTED, WE WOULD, AS LONG AS WE FELT LIKE WE HAD ENOUGH OF THE PIPE TESTED THERE.
IF THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE IT AND Y'ALL DO A REPAIR HERE AND THEY SAY, UH, YOU STILL GOT A PRETTY GOOD LENGTH OF PIPE HERE, WE MAY STILL HAVE TO GO AND POTHOLE THAT, THAT PIPE, THERE'S THAT CHANCE.
SO, SO TO CLARIFY THIS, IT SHOULD NOT BE THE WATER SUPPLY PIPE TEST.
IT SHOULD BE THE WATER SERVICE PIPE TEST.
IT'S ANYWHERE UNTIL YOU GET INTO THE HOUSE.
BUT A WATER SUPPLY PIPE IS YOUR ENTIRE PIPING SYSTEM.
A SERVICE HAS A SPECIFIC DEFINITION.
SO WHAT IS A, WHEN IT'S WATER SUPPLY SYSTEM, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I THINK IT DEPENDS ON, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHO'S INTERPRETING IT.
'CAUSE EVERYTHING UPSTREAM OF A FAUCET IS PART OF THE SUPPLY.
BUT THE SERVICE I THINK HAS A MORE SPECIFIC DEFINITION.
[02:05:01]
WE MEETING TO THE HOUSE, IT'S, IT'S, NO, NO, I'M YARD SERVICE.I'M, I'M NOT ASKING WHAT, WHAT YOUR AMENDMENT SAYS.
I'M ASKING FOR SOMEBODY TO EXPLAIN WHAT'S IN THE BOOK.
SO IN 3 1 2 0.5 IT SAYS A PUMP COMPLETION OF A SECTION OF, OR THE ENTIRE WATER SYSTEM SUPPLY SYSTEM, THE SYSTEM OR PORTION COMPLETED SHALL BE TESTED.
AND SO, AND I ASSUME THAT'S A PRESSURE TEST FOR LEAK? YES.
SO WHEN WE, WHEN WE HAVE A LEAK IN THE GROUND AND WE CUT OUT A PIECE OF PIPE AND PUT THE FITTING IN INTO REPAIR, ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GO DO A WATER PRESSURE TEST, DO A WATER PRESSURE TEST? UH, YOU MEAN WHENEVER THE REPAIR IS MADE? YEAH, TURN ON THE WATER, SEE IF THERE'S ANY LEAKS.
SAYS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IT AND IT HAS TO BE MORE P S I, WHICH MEANS YOU GOTTA PUMP IT OUT AND NO, NOBODY DOES THAT.
IS THAT WHAT THE SECTION IS CALLING FOR? YEAH.
SO IF I REPLACE THIS MUCH PIPE, IT, IT'S MINIMUM 50 P S I, I KNOW WITH THE CITY THEY'LL TYPICALLY, IT'D BE THE, THE WORKING PRESSURE.
TYPICALLY WE'VE DONE THE SERVICES, THEY'LL JUST TURN THE WATER BACK ON FOR THE HOMEOWNER AND THEY'LL LEAVE IT ON BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE INSPECTOR CAN'T GET THERE FOR MAYBE A DAY OR TWO ON IT.
SO YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE WATER OFF OR JUST LEAVE THEM WITHOUT WATER.
SO IF YOU REPLACE TWO FEET OF PIPE, YOU'RE TAKING A PERMIT OUT AND YES.
WELL I I DO, I'VE I'VE REPLACED A WATER SERVICE IN THE YARD.
SO WHAT WE DO, SO WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT DO, FOR EXAMPLE, ON OUR MAINTENANCE PLUMBING PERMIT ON, I MEAN IT'S, I GUESS WE JUST TURN IT ON, IT DOESN'T LEAK, FILL UP THE HOLE AND IT'S IN THE BOOK AND WE CALL IT A DAY PRETTY MUCH, UH, THE WORKING PRESSURE USUALLY OF THE MAINS PROBABLY GREATER THAN 50 PSIS.
SO, UM, AND THE WATER PRESSURE IN A, A NORMAL LINE IS MORE THAN 50 PSI USUALLY.
IT'S USUALLY GOING 60 AND HIGHER THAN'S.
SO THE RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEM NUMBER 92 FROM THE COMMITTEE IS TO NOT PROPOSE THAT AMENDMENT 4 93.
SO THAT, UM, THAT CONCLUDES ALL OF OUR I P C ITEMS THAT WE WANTED TO REVISIT.
UH, SO I THINK WE'LL NEED TO WAIT FOR GREG, UM, BEFORE WE ARE ABLE TO MAKE A MOTION ON, UM, MOVING FORWARD WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO CRYSTAL, WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED? 72 TILL WE GOT TO, IS THAT A DIFFERENT CODE 72? YES.
SO 72 ON THOSE ARE THE, UM, THOSE ARE THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO THE PLUMBING CHAPTERS IN THE I R C.
SO THAT LIKE ON 72, THAT P 25.
SO, UH, WE ARE CURRENTLY DISCUSSING AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE AND IF YOU GUYS WANNA, UM, MAKE A MOTION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS, I MOVE THAT WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS AS WE HAVE AMENDED THEM.
SO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM IS UH, FOUR FOR, THAT'S DISCUSSION OF THE INTERNATIONAL FUEL GAS CODE.
SO WE WERE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THOSE, UM, CHANGES IN OUR LAST LAST WEEK'S MEETING.
THERE WERE A COUPLE ITEMS I BELIEVE THAT WE HAD TO REVISIT.
SO THAT'S THE SECOND TO LAST PAGE IN YOUR PACKET.
IT, SO THE FIRST ITEM WE WERE GONNA REVISIT WAS THE SEPARATION IN THE TRENCH.
[02:10:01]
FORWARD.ANYTHING OVER, BUT I THINK THIS SECTION WAS ALREADY IN THE CODE.
WE JUST A OF WORDING RELATED TO THE ENCLOSURES FOR THE BACKFLOW AND RELEASE, YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE INSTALLATION ON, UM, THE INSTALLATION ON.
SO WE HAVE, UM, AN ADDITIONAL PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE I P C.
CAN WE BRING UP 6 0 8 15 1 IN THE I P C? SO IT'S A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO 6 0 8 15, 1 FOR BACKFLOW ENCLOSURES.
SO IT'S OUTDOOR ENCLOSURES FOR BACKFLOW PREVENTION DEVICES.
SO THE PROPOSAL IS TO ADD, SORRY, LET ME GET TO THAT SECTION.
SO THE PROPOSAL IS TO ADD THAT ASSEMBLIES INSTALLED ABOVE GROUND SHALL BE CONTAINED IN A FREEZE PROTECTED ENCLOSURE MEETING THE A S SS E 10 60.
SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS AND HOW MUCH IT COSTS? ANDREW BARIATRIC SAN ANTONIO WATER SYSTEM? YES, WE'VE, OVER THE PAST, UH, FREEZE WE HAD, THERE WAS CERTAIN, UM, BACKFLOW ASSEMBLIES THAT ARE INSTALLED ABOVE GRADE.
UM, MAJORITY OF THESE WERE FIRE LINES AND, UM, WE DID TALK ABOUT FLOWS THROUGH THOSE FIRE LINES AND HOW IF YOU HAD THE WATER MOVING, IT WOULD NOT FREEZE.
BUT A LOT OF THOSE FIRE LINES ARE STATIC WHEN THEY'RE STANDING OUT THERE UNEXPOSED, UH, EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS.
THE, THE ENCLOSURES ARE, UM, MEETING A CERTAIN STANDARD TO ENSURE THAT THE INSTALLATION IS AROUND THOSE ASSEMBLIES.
UM, THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR IN INSTALL, IN INSTALLATION ON THOSE.
UM, WE JUST WANTED TO KIND OF CLARIFY THAT THE ONES ABOVE GRADE HAVE THAT, UH, REQUIREMENT TO HAVE THOSE ENCLOSURES PUT ONTO 'EM.
EITHER A, THE, THE, THE BAG TYPES AND THEY, THEY CAN RUN REALLY EXPENSIVE ON SOME AVENUES, BUT THEN THERE'S SOME THAT ARE MORE REASONABLE.
THERE'S LIKE THIS LARGER BAG WRAPAROUND TYPE OF INSTALLATION.
SO IS THAT $5, 5,000? OH NO, THEY'LL, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE, UH, RP ARE THE ONES THAT ARE EXPOSED ABOVE GRADE.
UH, IT RANGES FROM A COUPLE HUNDRED TO A COUPLE THOUSAND EVEN MORE.
SO I CAN'T THROW AN INSULATED DOGHOUSE OVER THE TOP OF THE THING BECAUSE IT WON'T COMPLY WITH 10 60.
IF IT WAS A VERY FANCY DOGHOUSE, IT MIGHT COMPLY WITH 10 60.
AND THIS WOULD APPLY TO NEW CONSTRUCTION ONLY? CORRECT? UH, NEW CONSTRUCTION OR PER WHAT CODE REQUIRES ON REPAIR REPLACEMENTS OR IF THERE'S SOME KIND OF MODIFICATION? PROBABLY, I'M NOT SPECIFIC ON WHAT THOSE REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE.
SO HOW MANY, HOW MANY OF THOSE DEVICES THAT ARE FEEDING FIRE SYSTEMS ARE LOCATED OUTSIDE THE BUILDING? THERE ARE PLENTY OUT THERE.
YEAH, THERE'S THERE'S A LOT OUT THERE.
I MEAN, UM, WE CAN, WE CAN CHECK WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND GET YOU SOME INFORMATION.
YEAH, BUT THIS ISN'T JUST FIRE LINES.
IN THEORY IT'S BACKFLOW, PREVENTERS FOR YOUR IRRIGATION SYSTEM.
AM I READING THAT RIGHT? IT'S GONNA BE BACKFLOWS FOR THE DOMESTIC WATER.
IT'S GONNA BE, I MEAN EVERY PLACE.
IN ESSENCE, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF 'EM.
THAT, AND, AND THERE I JOKINGLY SAID AN INSULATED DOGHOUSE, BUT LIKE I'VE DONE A COUPLE OF THESE WHERE THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE DID WAS A, WAS A SMALL INSULATED BOX THAT WAS JUST A LITTLE STICK FRAME ON A CONCRETE PAD.
AND, AND SO, AND IF THAT SURE ISN'T RATED THE A S S E 10 60, BUT IT WOULD BE AN INSULATED BUILDING THAT, YOU KNOW, WELL IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY A BUILDING EITHER, SO IT FALLS IN THE MIDDLE.
THAT'D BE MY ONLY, AND BOY, THIS ISN'T JUST HERE.
I MEAN, PHOENIX DOES THIS, LA DOES THIS.
YEAH, IN ESSENCE, YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S WHAT WE DID IT.
WE PUT IN A WATER SOFTENER IN WITH THE BACKFLOW AND IT'S IN A, A LITTLE BUILDING THAT WE BUILT.
I DO BELIEVE THESE ARE ONES THAT ARE EXPOSED OUTSIDE ABOVE GRADE
[02:15:01]
THAT DO NOT HAVE A STRUCTURE AROUND THEM.SO MY, MY QUESTION IS, IS IN THE TWO OR THREE FIRE SYSTEMS AND BUILDINGS THAT WE HAVE LOOKED AT AND OWN OR OWN, THE BACKFLOW US HAS BEEN INSIDE THE BUILDING, BUT THERE IS A PIPE COMING OUT OF THE GROUND THAT GOES INTO THE BUILDING THAT'S NOT INSULATED.
AND SO ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S JUST BACKFLOW OR ALL PIPING SERVING FIRE SYSTEMS AND THIS IS DIRECTLY RATES OF THE ASSEMBLY ITSELF JUST TO ENSURE THAT IT'S PROTECTED IN A DOZEN CRACKER FREEZE AND IT'S FUNCTIONING.
I JUST DID THIS SMALL BUILDING IS BASICALLY A TIN SHACK WITH SPRAY FOAM INSULATION INSIDE.
YEAH, THAT'S BASICALLY A TIN SHACK WITH SPRAY FOAM INSULATION ON THE INSIDE OF IT.
AND I WILL PROBABLY GUARANTEE YOU IT IS NOT A S S E 10 60 RATED, BUT IT'S INSULATED.
I THINK WE ACTUALLY PUT A LITTLE HEATER IN IT TOO.
AND THAT'S FOR AN EIGHT INCH WATER METER OR EIGHT INCH WATER LINE WITH DOUBLE CHECKS ON THAT SIDE.
SO THIS WILL BE FOR THE CITY MIKE.
UM, ON THOSE EXTERIOR ASSEMBLIES THAT ARE INSTALLED, THE LARGER FIRE LINES THAT ARE EXPOSED, THERE'S SOME THAT ARE INSULATED AND THERE'S SOME ARE NOT.
IS THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF INSULATION ON THOSE OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT THEY JUST IS BASED UPON IT FROM THE FIRE MARSHAL OR WARNING? IT'S BASED UPON HONOR
THERE IS A SECTION IN THE CODE THAT, UH, ALL BACKFLOWS, UH, DEVICES SHOULD BE INSULATED.
SO THAT FINAL INSPECTION, THEY SHOULD HAVE INSULATION ON THEM.
I THINK, UM, OUR COMPONENT FROM THIS PAST WINTER STORM, AND I KNOW THAT THIS WAS A VERY SEVERE ONE THAT WE PROBABLY WON'T SEE FOR ANOTHER 500 YEARS, BUT ON TIMEFRAMES WHERE YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF DAYS FREEZING OR TWO OR THREE AND YOU HAVE STATIC WATER IN SOME OF THESE LINES AND IT DID FREEZE.
WE HAD QUITE A FEW THAT HAPPENED DOWN AT BROOKS AND WE HAD QUITE A FEW AROUND TOWN.
I KNOW THAT THIS PAST YEAR WE HAD PROBABLY REPLACEMENTS HAVE OVER DOUBLED FROM, UM, EXPOSED ASSEMBLIES.
AND A LOT OF 'EM ARE THE RPS AND THEY ARE ON RESIDENTIAL OR LOCATIONS.
DEPENDS ON IF THEY HAVE THE ONES THAT ARE ABOVE GRADE AND NOT IN A VAULT OR THIS WOULD BE ANYTHING THAT'S JUST ABOVE GRADE.
I JUST WANTED TO TRY TO FIND A STANDARD OR SOME BRING IT TO THE COMMITTEE OF TRYING TO GET SOME CONSISTENCY ON ENSURING THAT THOSE INSULATION GUIDELINES ARE MET.
I, I AGREE THAT SOME PROTECTIONS BETTER THAN NONE AND EVEN IF THEY HAVE ENCLOSURES WITH HEATERS, THAT'S EVEN BIT THAT'S ABOVE AND BEYOND WHICH WE REALLY APPRECIATE FOR THAT.
WELL, AND THAT'S JUST WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.
'CAUSE TO ME BY DEFINITION THAT IS AN OUTDOOR ENCLOSURE.
IT'S NOT LOCATED INSIDE OF A BUILDING.
BUT I GUESS TECHNICALLY IF YOU JUMP DOWN TO THE, THE 6 0 8 15 0.2 THAT ACTUALLY SAYS BACKFLOW PREVENTER SHALL NOT BE LOCATED IN AREAS SUBJECT TO FREEZING.
THAT, THAT'S WHERE I'M KIND OF ASKING FOR THAT LITTLE BIT OF THE CLARIFICATION.
'CAUSE I GUESS TECHNICALLY OUT WHAT IS OUTDOORS? IS IT THE BACKFLOW THAT'S SITTING IN THE YARD WITH NOTHING ON IT? OR IS THAT IN A SMALL TIN SHACK THAT, THAT WE HAD MADE? IS THAT OUTDOORS? I WOULD ALMOST CONSIDER THE, THE TIN SHACK MORE OF A STRUCTURE THAT WAS TO ENCLOSE WITHIN IT.
UM, OTHER THAN INSTALLATION STANDARDS, I GUESS THE DEFINITION OF ENCLOSURE IS ONE THING FROM THE COMMERCIAL SIDE OF IT.
THEY HAVE HOT BOXES, WHICH IS A BRAND NAME OF IT.
ENCLOSURE, YOU HAVE, EXCUSE ME, DON'T COOL THAT
UM, BUT THERE, THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES OF, UH, UH, ENCLOSURES OR IN INSTALLATIONS INSTALLATION THEY PUT ON 'EM.
I WAS TRYING TO FIND A MORE OF A, A STANDARDIZED VERSION SO PEOPLE CAN KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND TRY TO MEET THAT STANDARD, BUT YET IF THEY MEET SOMETHING THAT'S CLOSE TO THAT SAME R VALUE WITHIN THAT SPRAY FOAM, CERTAIN THICKNESS, WHATNOT, YOU PROBABLY CAN DO A CALCULATION OR VERIFY THAT IT MEETS THAT STANDARD.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIND, UM, SOMETHING TO HELP PROTECT THOSE ASSEMBLIES SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE, UH, STRAIGHT PIPING SITUATIONS WHEN THEY'RE WAITING FOR VALVES TO COME THROUGH, ESPECIALLY IN THE TIMEFRAME WITH PARTS AND PIECES COME AND TAKING MONTHS TO REPLACE THAT LEAVES SITES UNPROTECTED, WHICH OUR MAIN GOAL IS FOR THAT PROTECTION SITE.
[02:20:01]
DOES THIS APPLY TO BACKFLOW PREVENTERS THAT ARE IN THE GROUND IN A BOX? NO, IT DOES NOT.IF YOU'VE GOT AN IRRIGATION SYSTEM WITH A, WITH A BACKFLOW PREVENTER THAT'S BELOW GRADE, I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S STILL TO ME IS AN OUTDOOR WHICH WOULD REQUIRE INSULATION.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY, THE PROPOSED WORDING, ASSEMBLIES INSTALLED ABOVE GROUND SHALL BE CONTAINED IN A FREEZE PROTECTION, FREEZE PROTECTED ENCLOSURE.
THAT LANGUAGE WORKS FOR ME BECAUSE THEN IT'S HOWEVER IT'S PROTECTED FROM FREEZING YOU, THE LANGUAGE CAN PUT UP YOU, I I DO.
WE HAD THIS, UH, DISCUSSION AT THE LAST MEETING AND UM, WE WERE TRYING TO PRESENT SOME LANGUAGE AND WE WERE STILL TRYING TO GET IT ALL TOGETHER OVER THE TIMEFRAME AND DIDN'T QUITE MEET THE BLASTED TIME.
UH, MIKE, SO CURRENTLY IN THE I P C OR, OR IS WHAT IS THE STANDARD FOR INSULATING? I KNOW THAT THE RULE IS TO INSULATE, IS THERE A THICKNESS, A WALL THICKNESS THAT IS REQUIRED OR 'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S REQUIRED TO BE INSULATED.
ANY, ANY OF THESE DEVICES ABOVE GROUND, HOW THEY THEY STAY UNINSULATED? I'M NOT SURE.
UH, ONCE A, ONCE INSTALLATION AND INSPECTION IS COMPLETED, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
OR MAYBE YOU COULD PUT UNPROTECTED ASSEMBLIES ABOVE GROUND.
THAT'S THE, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY FIRE LINES.
FIRE LINES ARE ONE OF THE MORE SUSCEPTIBLE ONES DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A CONSTANT FLOW.
YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME OTHER ASSEMBLIES THAT WOULD HAVE CONSTANT FLOW, BUT I WOULD TRY TO, ANYTHING THAT'S EXPOSED TO THE ELEMENTS, THEY MAY NOT HAVE WATER USAGE OR WHATNOT OVER A PERIOD OF TIME, ESPECIALLY OVERNIGHT.
THEY COULD FREEZE THE, THAT'S AN ASSUMPTION.
BUT, UM, JUST ANYTHING THAT'S EXPOSED, NOT INSULATED.
AND I KNOW MIKE MENTIONED THAT EVERYTHING SHOULD BE INSULATED, BUT SOMETIMES AFTER TESTING OR WHATNOT, THEY COULD TAKE ALL THE INSULATION OFF OR YOU HAVE SOMETHING REMOVED.
I KNOW THERE'S DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR FIRE LINES.
I'VE BEEN THROUGH THE EXPERIENCE BEFORE MYSELF.
SO IT'S ABOUT, UM, GOTTA BE A HEATER ON IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AM I CORRECT? YEAH, I I MEAN IN OUR, IN OUR BUILDING, THE BUILDING HAS EMERGENCY HEAT THAT KICKS ON WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IN THE BUILDING DROPS BELOW THAT AND IT PROTECTS ALL THE FIRE LINES IN THE BUILDING INCLUDING THE RISER THAT'S IN THE BUILDING.
YES, BUT MY QUESTION, YOU, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU COULD PUT A SOCK AROUND IT.
UM, THERE'S CERTAIN TYPES OF INSULATED BAGS THAT MEET THOSE STANDARDS THAT SHOW THAT INSULATION.
HOWEVER, THE LANGUAGE SAYS THAT IT MUST BE IN A FREEZE PROTECTED ENCLOSURE.
AND TO ME, AN ENCLOSURE MEANS A BUILDING, I GUESS WE COULD CLARIFY ON THE, THE WORDING OF ENCLOSURE.
UM, THAT'S, I GUESS IT'LL BE MORE OF A, IT'S ANYTHING THAT WOULD AC IT'S ACTUALLY ENVELOP OR COVER OVER THE ASSEMBLY.
SO I I I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THIS.
CAN WE GET TWO THINGS AND I THINK WE CAN JUST BRING THIS TO THE FULL BOARD BECAUSE I, BUT I THINK WE NEED THIS.
CAN SOMEBODY SEND US WHAT THE AN C 10 60 STANDARDS ARE SO WE CAN, AND HOPEFULLY THEY'RE SEMI SHORT THERE.
THERE IS A SHORT BRIEF PAPER THAT I'VE PULLED UP BEFORE.
IT'S NOT 200 PAGES LONG AS TO WHAT NO SIR.
WE NEED TO DO TO MEET THE STANDARD AND THEN WE CHANGE THE WORD BE TO FREEZE PROTECTED MEETING THE STANDARD WITHOUT THE WORD ENCLOSURE BECAUSE THERE'S LOTS OF WAYS OKAY.
THE CORRECT, I'M LOOKING AT THE STANDARD NOW OR UM, THE SYNOPSIS OF IT AND IT REFERENCES ENCLOSURE IN THE STANDARD,
[02:25:04]
WHICH MEANS THAT IT HAS TO BE IN THE BUILDING.IT HAS TO HAVE A, A TO ME, AN ENCLOSURE MEANS FOUR-SIDED OR THREE-SIDED IF IT'S AGAINST THE BUILDING.
AND IT, IT'S A STRUCTURE OF SOME KIND, NOT JUST, I I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT HINTS TOWARD, BUT I'VE SEEN OTHER STANDARDS OF, UM, THINGS THAT MET THE ANSI STANDARD THAT WAS NOT NECESSARILY A FOUR-SIDED BOX OR A STRUCTURE.
SO, UM, ACTUALLY THE STANDARD SAYS CLASS ONE FREEZE PROTECTION ENCLOSURES HEATED.
ARE WE NOT ALREADY, WE'RE ALREADY REFERENCING STRAIGHT CODE REFERENCES 10 60 ALREADY.
IS IT NOT COVERED FOR OUTDOOR ENCLOSURES FOR BACKFLOW PREVENTION? SHALL COMPLY WITH THIS ALREADY.
WELL THAT'S KIND OF WHY I WAS GOING ACTUALLY GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION IS TO ME, YES, IT'S ALREADY, IT'S ALREADY COVERED TO DO SOMETHING.
BUT MY POINT WAS IS I THAT SOMETHING MAY NOT BE 10 60 COMPLIANT.
AND LIKE I SAID, IF I LITERALLY, THAT'S WHY I JOKINGLY SAID, BUT IN ALL SERIOUSNESS, IF I PUT AN INSULATED DOG HOUSE AND THROW IT OVER THE BACKFLOW PREVENTER, IT'S, IT'S PROTECTED FROM FREEZING, WHICH IS THE INTENT.
GOOD LUCK FINDING AN A S A A S S E 10 60 DOGHOUSE.
I THINK THAT'S THE REASON I WAS KIND OF BRINGING THIS TO THE COMMUNITY IS THAT ALSO GET CLARIFICATION ON IT AND SEE IF SOMEONE HAD OTHER INSIGHT FOR IT.
'CAUSE IT SAID IT MUST MEET THE STANDARD, THE OUTDOOR ENCLOSURES FOR BACKFLOW DEVICES SHALL MEET THAT ANSSI STANDARD, BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY STATE THAT THEY MUST BE COVERED OR INSULATED.
AND I KNOW THERE WAS WORDING THAT MIKE MENTIONED THAT THEY ALL SHOULD BE INSULATED, BUT I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT.
SO I WAS JUST TRYING TO ADD SOME ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION TO THAT RULE TO HELP ENSURE THAT WE GET THOSE PROTECTED OUT THERE IN THE WEATHER.
I GUESS IF THEY ADDED LIKE AN R VALUE OF THE INSTALLATION THAT THEY'RE WANTING FOR FOR IT, THAT WOULD HELP.
WELL, AND THAT'S, THAT'S KINDA WHERE I WAS READING 6 0 8 15.
WELL, SORRY, I'M, I'M ACTUALLY, WE'RE IN THE I P C RIGHT? WE'RE NOT, THAT'S NOT R C CORRECT.
BUT SIX WHAT SECTION WERE YOU READING FROM THAT HAD THE STANDARD REFERENCE FOR THE BACKFLOW 6 0 8 15 1.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT 15 TWO BACK, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT, DOES IS IS 15 ONE AND 15 TWO AND KIND OF AN OR BECAUSE AGAIN, BACKFLOW PREVENTER SHALL NOT BE LOCATED IN AREAS SUBJECT TO FREEZING, YOU KNOW, EXCEPT, BUT THAT'S WHERE I SAY 'CAUSE TO ME PUTTING AN INSULATED DOGHOUSE IS, IS PROTECTING THEM FROM FREEZING.
SO THEY'VE, THEY'D APPLY UNDER 15.2, BUT IF THAT IS NOT LOCATED INSIDE OF THE HABITABLE BUILDING, IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED OUTDOORS.
AN OUTDOOR ENCLOSURE IS WHAT? WELL, THEY JUST ASSUME SAN ANTONIO DOESN'T FREEZE DOWN HERE.
WELL, AND THAT'S WHY I SAY THAT'S NOT JUST SAN ANTONIO.
I MEAN, LIKE I WAS THINKING IF YOU SEE THIS ALL THE TIME IN PHOENIX, I'VE SEEN IT, I WANNA SAY LIKE LA DOESN'T FREEZE, YOU KNOW, CORPUS, THIS IS GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, SOMEPLACE LIKE CORPUS OR HOUSTON.
SO THAT'S WHY I'M, I'M KIND OF, HUH.
SO IN THE NUMBER 15.1, IT BASICALLY SAYS THIS ALREADY, BUT DOES IT, DOES IT REQUIRE, IT JUST SAYS THE ENCLOSURE MUST BE MEET THE STANDARD.
DOES IT SAY IT HAS TO BE IN AN ENCLOSURE SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CODE? I DON'T BELIEVE SO.
IT'S SAYING IF THERE IS AN ENCLOSURE, IT HAS TO MEET THAT STANDARD.
AND IN THE 0.2 IT JUST MENTIONS THAT IT HAS TO HAVE HEAT INSULATION OR BOTH.
I THINK THE INSULATION PORTION OF IT, I THINK WE WERE TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT.
I MUST HAVE SOME TYPE OF AN ENCLOSURE OR A, A WRAP OR SOMETHING BETTER THAN JUST THE, THE METAL IN IN THE, THE ONES THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
HOW MANY OF THOSE BUILDINGS WERE BUILT LIKE IN 2018 OR AFTER VERSUS BUILT IN EARLY ON THAT DIDN'T HAVE THESE RULES IN PLACE? UH, IT WAS, THERE WAS A MIX, THERE WAS SOME FAIRLY NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT JUST OCCURRED DOWN AT BROOK CITY BASE.
THAT'S ALL BEING DEVELOPED QUITE QUICKLY THAT HAD, UM, EXPOSED UH, UH, FIRE LINES THAT DID, UM, COMPLETELY JUST FAIL BROKEN HALF.
BUT THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO THE FIRE LINE.
THIS JUST APPLIES TO THE, TO THE BACKFLOW DEVICE.
THE BACKFLOW, WELL I'LL SAY FIRE LINES, BUT I'M, WHEN I MENTIONED FIRE LINES, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FIRE LINE ASSEMBLY ITSELF.
THAT THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT WAS FAILING.
THE STUFF THAT'S BEEN EXPOSED ABOVE GRADE, THE, THE FIRE LINES.
[02:30:01]
SMALLER RPS, THE ONES LIKE THAT, THE, THE SMALLER RPS ARE VERY EASILY TO IN INSULATE OR PUT WITHIN A TYPE OF A ENCLOSURE OR NOT A STRUCTURE, BUT A, A BOX DOGHOUSE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT MEETS A CERTAIN STANDARD OF R VALUE.IF I, I'D BE FINE WITH WE COULD, THE MAIN THING IS IS IT COMES DOWN TO THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF FAILURES AND I'M TRYING TO FIND AN IN BETWEEN TO WORK WITH THE COMMITTEE HERE OR WITH THE PLUMBING TO FIND A WAY WE CAN HELP ENSURE THAT THOSE ARE INSULATED AND PROTECTED.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GO WITH.
DOES THE FIRE CODE SOMEWHERE REQUIRE THE FIRE PLUMBING OR THE FIRE ROOMS OR WHERE THE FIRE LINES ARE RUNNING TO BE EITHER HEATED OR INSULATED? SO I WAS GONNA SAY IT'S 40 DEGREES, UH, FOR FIRE SPRINKLER, ANYTHING WHERE THERE'S A WET FIRE SPRINKLER, ANYTHING, IT'S GOTTA BE ABOVE 40 DEGREES.
IT TO, TO KIND OF AN EARLIER QUESTION YOU WERE MAKING IS, IS I KNOW DEPENDING ON JURISDICTION I'VE BEEN INTO, PEOPLE GET PERSNICKETY ABOUT WHERE DOES THE FIRE SPRINKLERS START.
N F P A 13 REALLY START BEING ENFORCED VERSUS WHEN IS THE I P C BEING ENFORCED? AND, AND I'VE SEEN IT VARY FROM THE CITY MAINE INTO THE BUILDING AS NFPA 13, BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN IT FROM THE SECOND GATE VALVE ON THE, THE DOWNSTREAM SIDE OF THE BACKFLOW PREVENTER.
UPSTREAM WOULD BE I P C DOWNSTREAM WAS NFPA A 13.
SO I'VE SEEN SOME JURISDICTIONS READ THAT DIFFERENTLY.
'CAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, IF, IF, I DON'T KNOW, DOES SAN ANTONIO, I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO DEFINES THE BACKFLOW PREVENTER ON A DEDICATED FIRE SPRINKLER LINE UNDER THE I P C OR THE I F C.
ARE WE NFP 13 OR ARE WE I F C? UM, BOTH.
I MEAN THE SPRINKLER WOULD COMPLY WITH NFP 13.
SO THAT, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE PIECE.
'CAUSE IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT FIRE SPRINKLER, IT MAY NOT BE A PLUMBING CODE QUESTION.
IT MAY BE, IT MAY BE EITHER AN N F P A 13 TYPE AMENDMENT OR OR 14, WHICH ONE'S THE SERVICE.
UH, IT MAY BE AN N F P A REQUIREMENT VERSUS AN I P C REQUIREMENT.
OR IT COULD EVEN BE AN I F C REQUIREMENT.
IF YOU'RE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT FIRE SPRINKLER, UM, THEY'RE INCLUDED WITH THE OVERALL CONCERN.
BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE TWO INCH RP SUPPLY LINES OUT IN FRONT OR A FOUR INCH RP THAT MAY BE OUT IN FRONT.
THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY FOR FIRE BUT FOR A REGULAR DOMESTIC SUPPLY.
YEAH, THAT, I MEAN MY OTHER QUESTION IS 6 0 8 IS DRINKING WATER SECTION.
UM, 6 0 8 15 IS SPECIFIC TO LOCATION OF BACKFLOW PREVENT NO, I KNOW, BUT IF YOU GO TO 6 0 8, THE GENERAL IS TO TALKING ABOUT WHAT THIS SECTION WA JUST WATER SUPPLY AND DISTRIBUTION.
NO, IT'S POTABLE WATER OR POTABLE WATER SUPPLY.
THE, THE LINES THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING ARE ALL SUPPLIED OFF THE MAINS, WHICH ARE THE POTABLE WATER SUPPLY FROM OUR P W SS.
CAN I RECOMMEND THAT WE JUST BRING THIS BACK TO THE FULL BOARD AND REALLY TAKE THE MONTH OR TWO THAT WE HAVE BEFORE IT GETS TO THAT POINT TO REALLY LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE.
BECAUSE I, I CAN ALSO WORK WITH, UH, MIKE MORALES ON THE WORDING AND ALSO SEE WHAT STEPS ARE BEING PLACED ON THEIR SIDE FOR THE INSTALLATION.
AND THEN WE CAN SEE WHAT WE'RE, ARE BEFORE WE GO TO THAT COMMITTEE AND, AND TO MAKE SURE IT ONLY INCLUDES STUFF THAT'S ABOVE GROUND IN SOMEWHERE IN THAT DEFINITION.
BECAUSE I THINK EITHER ABOVE GROUND, ABOVE GRADE, WE'LL PUT THE CORRECT TERMINOLOGY TO THAT, WHATEVER THE CORRECT WORDING IS.
BUT I I MEAN I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO PREVENT IS THE ONES THAT ARE OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE ABOVE GROUND GET PUT INSIDE SOMETHING THAT IT'S NOT GONNA LET 'EM FREEZE CORRECT.
'CAUSE THERE WILL MINIMIZE YOUR CORRECT AS WELL.
IF IT'S JUST AN INSULATED BAG, WE'LL STILL FREEZE WHEN FEBRUARY HAPPENS ANYWAY.
AN INSULATED BAG WILL GET YOU THROUGH ONE NIGHT OF BELOW FREEZING TEMPERATURES WITH, BUT AGAIN, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I SAY A FIRE, A FOUR INCH FIRE SPRINKLER LINE WITH FOUR DAYS OF FREEZING LIKE WE HAD IN FEBRUARY IS STILL GONNA FREEZE.
AND THEN THE, THE WHOLE HEAT TRACING THAT SHOWED IS NOT AS BEING AS EFFECTIVE AS
[02:35:01]
WELL DEPENDING ON CERTAIN SITUATIONS AND WHAT, WHAT OCCURS.UM, THE OTHER THING WAS LIKE THE HEATED, UH, UH, STRUCTURES.
IF YOU HAVE A FIRE RISE ROOM THAT'S NOT INSULATED, BUT IT'S, UH, LOCATED WITHIN A A STRUCTURE THAT THEY DO HAVE SOME TYPE OF SUPPLEMENTAL HEATING FOR THAT OR SOMETHING TO KEEP THAT TEMPERATURE, UH, ABOVE THAT FREEZING.
BUT, UH, WE'LL LOOK AT THE LANGUAGE.
I FIGURE IF IT DIDN'T FREEZE IN FEBRUARY, WE'RE GOOD TO GO.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE PROBABLY PRETTY GOOD TO GO.
WE'LL WORK WITH SAS TO BRING THAT UH, AMENDMENT LANGUAGE TO THE FULL BOARD.
SO, UM, NOW WE CAN MOVE ON TO FUEL GAS.
SO THE ITEM NUMBER ONE WAS WHAT WE HAD TABLED FOR THE SEPARATION FOR ELECTRICAL LINES.
SO IF YOU GUYS AGREE, WE'LL JUST MIMIC UM, THE CHANGES THAT WE PROPOSED IN THE UH, I P C LANGUAGE AND, AND FOR A GAS LINE THAT'S PLENTY FAR, IF WE'RE HOWEVER MANY FEET DEEP OR THREE FEET AWAY THAT WE AGREED TO, THAT'S PLENTY OF, UH, WAY THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A BIG BOOM.
WELL AGAIN, THAT WAS GAS, WATER, UH, AND DRAINAGE.
SO WE'RE STILL ON THE 36TH, RIGHT? 30, 36TH.
THIS WAY WHEN YOU SAY I THINK 18 WE WERE JUST GOING TO UM, HAVE THE 12, THE 12 INCHES.
SO IT'S 12 INCHES AWAY IF THE ELECTRIC LINE IS 12 INCHES BELOW THE GRASS LINE.
NO, BUT I MEAN MY IS IT'S PROBABLY NOT.
I HAD WRITTEN IT IN THE UH, MY AMENDMENT BOOK.
OKAY, WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT ONE.
AGAIN, TO MIMIC THE I P C LANGUAGE, UH, WE SPOKE ABOUT ALL THE, THOSE OTHER ITEMS, UH, LAST WEEK, THE NUMBER 12 FOR TEST GAUGES.
UH, WE WILL MOVE FORWARD WITH KEEPING THAT AMENDMENT AS WE DISCUSSED FOR I P C WE HAD TABLED THAT TO REVISIT.
SO THOSE ARE THE ONLY ITEMS WE HAD TO ON THE TABLE TO REVISIT FOR THIS TIME FOR THE INTERNATIONAL FUEL GAS CODE.
SO THAT, UM, AGAIN IS OUR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR.
SO IF YOU GUYS WANNA MAKE A MOTION ON THAT AGENDA ITEM THAT WE ADOPT AS AMENDED.
SO WE HAVE JUST A FEW MORE MINUTES, UM, TO DISCUSS NUMBER FIVE.
SO AS YOU CAN SEE I HAVE UM, FOR THE PLUMBING CHAPTERS OF THE I R C MIMICKED OUR AMENDMENTS AND IDENTIFIED THE SECTION IN THE I R C WHERE THOSE, UH, AMENDMENTS TAKE PLACE.
OF COURSE, WE'VE ELIMINATED ANY AMENDMENTS THAT DON'T, UM, THAT, THAT AREN'T NEEDED FOR RESIDENTIAL OR INTERCEPTORS AND UM, MUCH OF THAT LANGUAGE.
SO AGAIN, WE'RE JUST MIMICKING OUR I P C AMENDMENTS IN THE RESIDENTIAL CHAPTERS.
SO IF YOU START WITH LIKE ITEM 72, WE HAVE A CURRENT AMENDMENT FOR ACCESSIBLE OPENINGS.
SO EVERY ONE OF THESE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENT PRESENT TO A CODE MIRROR, SOMETHING WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED IN THE GROUP.
SO WE COULD MAKE A MOTION TO JUST, I'D LIKE TO MOVE THAT WE APPROVE ALL THE I R C CHANGES TO MIRROR THE ONES WE'VE MADE PREVIOUSLY.
[02:40:03]
ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.AND THEN AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX WAS TO DISCUSS THE, UH, LICENSING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, AGAIN, IF YOU GUYS HAD ANY COMMENT ON THAT, WE BRIEFLY WENT OVER, UH, WE BRIEFLY WENT OVER THAT LAST MEETING JUST TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW THAT WE'D BE LOOKING AT THAT AGAIN.
UH, TRYING TO BE CONSISTENT AMONG ALL OF THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO WE DON'T HAVE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS FOR EACH LICENSE TYPE IN OUR AMENDMENTS, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL DISCUSS WITH EACH COMMITTEE.
UM, AND THEN BRING FORWARD TO, TO THE FULL BOARD, UM, OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO THAT IS ALL OF THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE ON THE AGENDA.
[ Director's Report ]
WE HAVE ONE MORE.UH, DID YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER ITEMS TO DISCUSS? Y'ALL ARE GREAT.
SO AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE RECORDING THIS.
SO FOR ANYBODY THAT WOULD, UH, LIKE TO VIEW THE RECORDING FOR TODAY, IT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE BY TOMORROW.
YOU CAN UH, SEE THE WEBSITE THERE AND ANY COMMENTS CAN BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF AT THE EMAIL ADDRESS.
SO I GUESS THAT CONCLUDES OUR COMMITTEE MEETINGS MEETING.
SO WE'RE NOT MEETING A FRIDAY, RIGHT? CORRECT.
IF WE ARE STILL GOT THE ROOM RIGHT, WE COULD HAVE LIKE A PARTY OR SOMETHING LUNCH.
YOU MIGHT HAVE A ONE MAN PARTY HERE ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON
SO THEN I UNDERSTAND WE'RE BACK FRIDAY.
NO, UM, NO WE
UM, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO DISCUSS WITH THE PLUMBING COMMITTEE.
SO WE CAN CANCEL THAT, UM, THAT PLACEHOLDER FOR FRIDAY AFTERNOON.
OKAY THEN I GUESS WE NEED A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
I WAS, I DON'T THINK WE NEED A MOTION.
ROBERT RULES SAY WE SHOULD, BUT I'LL MOTION TO ADJOURN.
GREG MCFARLAND WITH A MOTION TO ADJOURN ROBERT JONES WITH A SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR? SAY LET'S GO HOME.