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THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
THANK YOU COMMITTEE MEMBERS FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING.
THANK YOU PUBLIC FOR JOINING US.
THIS IS THE FIRST OFFICIAL MEETING OF THE SIGN CODE COMMITTEE OF THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD TO DISCUSS CHANGES TO THE CHAPTER 28 SIGN AND BILLBOARD ORDINANCE.
WE'RE GONNA START THIS MEETING WITH A BRIEF INTERPRETATION VIDEO.
WE'LL DO A QUICK ROLL CALL TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE QUORUM.
ADRIAN CONTES, MICHAEL RUST, MARK ROSS LIDDEL TOY PRESENT.
AND WE ALSO HAVE JOE LEOS, WHO IS CURRENTLY NOT ON THE COM COMMITTEE JUST YET, BUT WE DO HAVE AN ITEM NUMBER, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO TO HAVE HIM VOTED ON.
UH, THIS IS FOR ANYBODY THAT'S CURRENTLY HERE OR WATCHING ONLINE, OR THAT COMES BACK AND WATCHES ANY OF THE RECORDINGS OF THESE VIDEOS.
THESE ARE THE CURRENT MEETING DATES THAT WE HAVE SCHEDULED TO ADDRESS CHAPTER 28 WITH THIS SUBCOMMITTEE OR WITH THIS COMMITTEE.
WE ALSO HAVE MAY 20TH AT 1:00 PM JUNE 1ST AT 8:30 AM AND JUNE 17TH AT 1:00 PM.
ADDITIONALLY, UH, A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE REVIEWING, UM, SPECIFIC AGENDA ITEMS, ALL OF THE ITEMS THAT HAVE COME FORWARD SO FAR, UH, AS RECOMMENDED CHANGES TO CHAPTER 28 SUBMITTED TO D S D THAT WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE BOARD.
ALL OF THAT CAN BE FOUND AT THIS WEBSITE.
ALL THE MEETINGS THAT WE ARE GONNA HOLD, INCLUDING, UH, THE MEETING FROM TWO WEEKS AGO, THAT WAS MORE OF AN INFORMATIVE MEETING FOR THE COMMITTEE CAN BE FOUND, UH, EITHER WATCHED LIVE DURING THESE MEETINGS AT THIS WEBSITE, BUT WE CAN ALSO FIND ALL THE RECORDINGS, BOTH IN ITS ORIGINAL VERSION AND IN IN SPANISH TRANSLATION.
AND ADDITIONALLY, ANY ITEMS THAT SOMEBODY THAT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THESE COMMITTEE MEETINGS WOULD LIKE TO BE READ INTO THE RECORD TO THE COMMITTEE CAN BE SENT TO SIGN CODE REVIEW@SANANTONIO.GOV.
OR IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PROCESS, I WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT ANY TYPE OF RECOMMENDATION AND CHANGES LIKE THAT.
THEY CAN ALSO CONTACT D S D STAFF AT THAT SAME EMAIL ADDRESS.
WE ALSO STILL HAVE AT THE FIRST WEBSITE, THE FORM FOR OFFICIALLY SUBMITTING A REQUEST FOR CHANGE TO CHAPTER 28.
WE WILL BE ACCEPTING THOSE THROUGH MIDNIGHT ON MAY 31ST.
AT THIS TIME, WE'LL OPEN IT TO, UH, FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS.
IF ANYBODY AT THIS TIME WE'RE DEFINITELY, WE WILL TRY TO HAVE A LOT OF, UH, DIALOGUE, ANY OF THE AGENDA, SPECIFIC AGENDA ITEMS. BUT AT THIS TIME, IF ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC WOULD MAKE A LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT.
WE'LL MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE.
SO THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM NUMBER IS TO, UH, APPOINT A CHAIR AND A CO-CHAIR FOR THIS COMMITTEE, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
YEAH, A FOLLOW UP FROM LAST MEETING.
I BELIEVE IT WAS MYSELF AS CHAIR AND LIDDELL AS VICE CHAIR.
SO IF WE CAN GET A MOTION AND JOE MOTION, MOTION TO THAT SAME.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION FROM JACK MOORE TO HAVE MARK ROSS BE THE CHAIR AND LIDDELL TOY.
THAT'LL BE, UH, MARK ROSS AS THE CHAIR.
I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU, UH, FOR MORE PROCEDURAL.
AND THEN, UH, THE SECOND ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO SWITCH MIKE RUST AND MYSELF, TO BE MYSELF, TO BE THE PRIMARY AND MIKE TO BE THE SECONDARY.
AND THEN TO ADD JOE TO THE COMMITTEE.
I, I FORGOT TO PUT IT ON THE, UH, POWER REPORT, BUT YES, THAT IS A AGENDA OPTION FOR AGENDA NUMBER ONE.
SO THAT COULD BE A MOTION AS WELL.
AND SO IF WE CAN GET A MOTION TO MAKE THAT CHANGE AND THEN ADD JOE.
GEN ITEM NUMBER TWO IS TO ADD IN NEW MEMBERS.
UM, AND, UH, DELTO, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION TO, TO SWITCH.
THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT
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SERVICES.CAN WE BREAK THOSE TWO MOTIONS? LET'S START WITH ONE.
DO YOU AVO A VOTE TO ADD A NEW MEMBER TO THE PANEL? I MAKE A MOTION TO ADD JO LEOS TO THE COMMITTEE.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
SECOND MOTION WOULD BE I WOULD REQUEST A MOTION TO SWITCH MIKE RUSS TO ALTERNATE AND MYSELF TO THE PRIMARY.
UH, SO BEFORE WE MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, UM, MOSTLY I WANTED IT FOR THE PUBLIC.
I, WE BRIEFLY WENT OVER THIS LAST TIME, BUT JUST IN CASE THERE'S SOMEBODY NEW THAT'S HERE, I WANT TO GIVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF KIND OF WHAT THIS COMMITTEE IS AND WHAT IT'S MADE UP OF BEFORE WE MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, WHICH IS TO ADD NON APPOINTED.
SO, UH, THE COMMITTEE IS CURRENTLY MADE UP OF APPOINTED MEMBERS TO THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES, PILLS AND ADVISORY BOARD, WHICH IS A VERY TECHNICAL BOARD THAT'S HAS MEMBERS FROM CON CONTRACTING, CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY ENGINEERS, ARCHITECTS, DESIGN PROFESSIONALS, UH, BUSINESS OWNERS FOR MULTIFAMILY AND, UH, BUSINESS OCCUPANCY, UH, MANAGEMENT.
OUR OWN BUILDING OWNERS REPRESENTATIVE ON THAT COMMITTEE.
SO VERY TECHNICAL HEAVY COMMITTEE.
UH, AND OF THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE IN ORDER TO COMMIT, OR I'M SORRY, ON THAT BOARD, IN ORDER TO CREATE A COMMITTEE OF THAT, WE NEED FOUR MEMBERS AS A MINIMUM UP TO SEVEN PRO, UM, MAXIMUM.
AND THEY CAN ALSO HAVE, UH, ALTERNATES SUCH AS MARK RU WAS ORIGINALLY THE ALTERNATE TO MICHAEL RU THAT WE HAVE NOW SWITCHED.
UH, THE APPOINTED COMMITTEE MEMBERS MAY HAVE ALTERNATES, UH, AND THEN A MAJOR, A MAJORITY OF THE APPOINTED COMMITTEE MEMBERS IS REQUIRED TO REACH QUORUM.
SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE FIVE MEMBERS.
SO WE WOULD NEED TO HAVE THREE PRESIDENT TO HAVE QUORUM FOR ANY COMMITTEE MEETING MOVING FORWARD.
SO THAT BEING SAID, UH, WHAT WE WANT TO DO TO TRY TO BALANCE, UH, THE COMMITTEE A LITTLE BIT, UH, SINCE IT IS VERY TECHNICAL AND INDUSTRY HEAVY, UH, THIS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE IS TO CONSIDERATION AND APPOINTMENT OF APPLICANTS FOR THE ADVISORY MEMBER POSITIONS TO THE SIGN CODE COMMITTEE OF THE BUILDING RELATED AND FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE UP TO FOUR MEMBERS OF THAT.
A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THAT ONE.
UH, A COMMITTEE MEMBER, UH, MAY VOTE TO ADD FOUR NON APPOINTED MEMBERS TO THE COMMITTEE.
THESE NON APPOINTED MEMBERS ARE NOT COUNTED TOWARD THE QUORUM AND DO NOT VOTE.
UH, SO WE WOULD STILL NEED TO HAVE A MINIMUM OF THREE COMMITTEE, UH, APPOINTED COMMITTEE MEMBERS FROM THE BOARD PRESENT FOR ANY MEETING.
UM, AND THEN OF THE FOUR, IF WE VOTE UP TO ADD FOUR OF THOSE FOUR, THEY WOULD NOT COUNTER QUORUM.
SO WE WOULD NEVER NEED THEM FOR QUORUM PURPOSES.
WE JUST WOULD LIKE THEM TO HELP BALANCE OUT ANY DIALOGUE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
UM, AND ONCE AGAIN, AS THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES AND APPEALS BOARD IS, IS A TECHNICAL COMMITTEE, THE GOAL OF THE NON APPOINTED MEMBERS IS TO ADD CITIZEN REPRESENTATION TO THE COMMITTEE, UH, TO BALANCE THE TECHNICAL SIDE OUT WITH, UH, CITIZENS AND, UH, CITIZEN ORGANIZATIONS.
UH, SO FAR WE ARE, WE HAD OPENED IT UP AFTER DIALOGUE.
WE RECEIVED SOME APPLICANTS AT THE INFORMATIONAL MEETING TWO WEEKS AGO.
WE ALSO SENT OUT AN, UM, AN EMAIL ALLOWING ANYBODY TO APPLY UP UNTIL SUNDAY MAY 1ST.
I BELIEVE IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, WE RECEIVED A TOTAL OF 19 APPLICATIONS BETWEEN THOSE TWO FORUMS. UM, AT THIS TIME, IF THERE'S ANYBODY, UM, IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT TO BE PRESENT OR, UH, TO INTRODUCE.
WE DID HAVE A KIND OF A LITTLE BRIEF DIALOGUE, UM, OPTION WHEN THEY APPLY TO PRESENT TO THE COMMITTEE AND THE COMMITTEE'S RECEIVED, ALL OF THAT.
UH, BUT WE DO WANNA GIVE ANYBODY THAT IS CURRENTLY PRESENT, UH, THAT HAS, THAT IS AN APPLICANT, ONE OF THE 19 APPLICANTS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND MAKE A STATEMENT, AN INTRODUCTORY, UH, PROVIDING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO THE COMMITTEE AT THIS TIME BEFORE THEY DELIBERATE AND ADD THOSE FOUR MEMBERS.
THEY CAN DO THAT AT THIS TIME.
SO WHAT I'M GONNA DO, IF YOU'LL JUST WAIT, UM, I HAVE THE LIST.
I'M GONNA CALL YOUR NAME UP SO THAT WE, IT'S ORDERLY IF YOU WANT TO, UH, COME UP AND SPEAK.
YOU'LL HAVE ONE MINUTE IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO JUST SAY, I PASS OR THEY DON'T ANSWER AT ALL.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING I WANTED BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS IS THAT WE ARE GONNA TRY OUR BEST TO, UH, HAVE AN OPEN DIALOGUE AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
SO EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THE FOUR PEOPLE SELECTED, WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, GONNA SHUT ANYBODY OFF FOR MAKING COMMENTS ON EACH AREA THAT WE'RE GONNA CONSIDER.
ADDITIONALLY, WHAT I WOULD ASK THOUGH IS FOR THAT PROCESS TO WORK SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO MORE FORMAL ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER AND ONLY THE COMMITTEE WILL BE PARTICIPATING
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IS AS WE GO THROUGH THE I ITEMS ON EACH AGENDA ITEM, IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK ON IT, RAISE YOUR HAND.AND THEN PLEASE MAKE YOUR COMMENTS GERMANE TO WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING.
'CAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF ITEMS THAT WE'RE GONNA GO.
AND IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO DISCUSS, THAT'S NOT PART OF WHAT IS MAKE THE SUBMISSION TO THE CITY.
SO WE'LL PUT IT ON THE AGENDA, AND I THINK THAT'S HOW WE'RE GONNA AT LEAST TRY TO START THE PROCESS.
AND AS LONG AS EVERYBODY'S ORDERLY, AND THAT'S THE WAY WE'LL CONTINUE.
SO FIRST IS STAN WAAL WAG HALTER.
SORRY, YOU DON'T, I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE.
MY NAME IS STANLEY WAG HALTER.
I'M A RESIDENT OF DISTRICT SEVEN.
I'VE LIVED IN SAN ANTONIO SINCE 1986 AND HAVE, UH, BEEN INVOLVED IN A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOOD ACTIVITIES AND HAVE APPLIED FOR, UH, POSITION ON THIS, UH, COMMITTEE, UH, TO, UH, KEEP UP MY BELIEF THAT, UH, WE WANT TO GIVE OR I WANT TO GIVE BACK TO THE CITY.
AND, UH, UH, I FEEL LIKE THIS WOULD BE, UH, A, A WAY TO CONTINUE FORWARD WITH THAT.
I'VE SERVED IN VARIOUS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION ACTIVITIES AND, UH, WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION.
AND I APOLOGIZE IF I BUTCHER ANYBODY'S NAME AS I GO THROUGH THIS.
UH, CHRISTY BARRON WITH SEVEN 13 SIGNS AND CB DIRECTIONAL SIGNS.
UM, BEEN IN THE SIGN INDUSTRY SINCE 2008 AND BUSINESS OWNER SINCE 2014 WAS, UH, VERY INVOLVED IN THE LAST PROCESS IN 2017.
UH, WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS, UH, THE WRITING THE CODE, MOSTLY I SUBMIT FOR EVENT SIGN PERMITS MOSTLY AS WELL AS THE WEEKEND DIRECTIONAL, LIKE BANDIT SIGN PROGRAMS, LIKE, UH, SUCH, SO RIGHT NOW.
SO OBVIOUSLY VERY INVOLVED AND CONCERNED ABOUT THAT ASPECT OF THE CODE.
UH, I'M JUDY HURWITZ, AND I'VE LIVED IN SAN ANTONIO FOR NEARLY 20 YEARS, AND I TOTALLY APPRECIATE THE QUALITY OF LIFE THAT THE CITY OFFERS.
AND I CAN SAY THAT BECAUSE I'VE LIVED ACROSS THE COUNTRY IN BOSTON, LOS ANGELES, SAN FRANCISCO, AND PHOENIX.
AND BY FAR, SAN ANTONIO IS THE BEST OF THE BEST.
AND PROFESSIONALLY I'VE SPENT MY LIFE IN COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION.
AND I WOULD LIKE VERY MUCH TO BE ABLE TO HELP BALANCE THE INTERESTS, UH, WITH INPUT CONCERNING THE NEEDS OF THE CITY, THE DESIRES OF THE CITY, THE RESIDENTS TO MAINTAIN A BEAUTIFUL CITY AND THE NEEDS OF BUSINESS OWNERS AND DEVELOPERS.
UM, ANYTHING THAT I COULD DO TO PARTICIPATE AND, UM, PULL FOR MY BACKGROUND, I'D BE HAPPY TO DO.
AND THANK YOU, UH, FOR CONSIDERATION.
THANK YOU, MARY WILLIAMS. GOOD MORNING, GENTLEMEN.
I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE AND IT WOULD BE AN HONOR TO BE ABLE TO SERVE ON THE COMMITTEE.
UH, I'M KATHLEEN TRENT, AND, UM, I WOULD HOPEFULLY ADD SOME BALANCE AND MAYBE SOME INSIGHT TO THE COMMITTEE.
UM, I COULD REPRESENT JOE BLOW, JUST DRIVING AROUND THE CITY, LOOKING AROUND FOR AN ADDRESS AND CAN'T FIND ANY NUMBERS ANYWHERE ON THE BUILDINGS.
AND THEN I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE LITTLE SIGNS ON THE STREET AT THE INTERSECTION, BUT THEY'RE HARD TO SEE AND I HAVE TO SLOW DOWN IN ORDER TO SEE THEM.
SO, SAFETY ISSUES HERE IN THE SIGNAGE INDUSTRY.
AND I KNOW THAT THIS IS REQUIRED.
IT'S A, IT'S, IT'S A REGULATION, BUT IT'S NOT BEING FOLLOWED VERY WELL.
THAT'S JUST MY GRIPE FOR TODAY.
BUT
AND AS I SAID, I'D, I'D BE HONORED TO HAVE YOUR CONSIDERATION.
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MANN.I, UM, AM HERE ON BEHALF OF THE REAL ESTATE COUNCIL OF SAN ANTONIO.
UH, AS WELL AS, UH, UH, BEING PART OF THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.
UH, I SPENT TIRELESS HOURS, UM, UH, WORKING THROUGH THE CODE CHANGES AND REWRITING THE CODE IN 2017.
UH, I AM A PROPERTY OWNER, UH, OWNED ASSETS THROUGHOUT SAN ANTONIO, UH, AND DEAL WITH, UH, UH, SIGN RELATED ISSUES, UH, UH, ON A DAILY BASIS.
AND SO I HAVE A VERY, UH, GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THE CODE AS WELL AS, UH, THE PR PRACTICAL APPLICATION OF, UH, UH, ALL THE COMPONENTS OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
IT'S LIKE THE SUBJECT OF SCIENCE WITH A Z ZIONS.
I RESIDE AT 3 42 SINISA DRIVE IN DISTRICT SEVEN.
I AM THE IMMEDIATE PAST PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO.
I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE, UH, DIFFERENT COMMISSIONS AND BOARDS IN THE CITY.
I HAVE A KEEN INTEREST IN MAINTAINING OUR BEAUTIFUL CITY, BUT I ALSO BRING THE PERSPECTIVE, HAVING SERVED 40 YEARS IN THE PROPERTY MANAGEMENT INDUSTRY, I BELIEVE IN MARKETING, ADVERTISING, THE IMPORTANCE OF WAYFINDING.
UM, I THINK THERE'S A WONDERFUL BALANCE BETWEEN SIGNAGE AND APPLYING THAT TO THOSE ISSUES, AS WELL AS KEEPING THE CITY BEAUTIFUL.
AND I THINK THAT I CAN CONTRIBUTE AND ADD TO WHAT THIS COMMITTEE DOES, AND IN ITS PROCESS, I WOULD CERTAINLY LIKE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR PARTICIPATION IN THAT.
APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION.
VALERIE RODRIGUEZ, UH, CHAIR, WE ACTUALLY RECEIVED AN EMAIL THAT SHE WOULD NOT BE HERE, BUT SHE DID ASK THAT I READ SOMETHING TO THE COMMITTEE REAL QUICK.
MY NAME IS VALERIE RODRIGUEZ, AND I'M GRADUATING FRIDAY THE 13TH FROM SAN ANTONIO COLLEGE WITH MY HUMAN RESOURCES MANAGEMENT, MARKETING MANAGEMENT, AND BUSINESS MANAGEMENT DEGREE, I RUN A SMALL FLORAL DESIGN BUSINESS, FRESH FLOWER ARRANGEMENTS, ALONG WITH MANAGING A SMALL HOME REMODELING BUSINESS, ALMOST PERFECT REMODELING.
I'M ON THE SAS COMMUNITY CONSERVATION COMMITTEE AND ALAMO COLLEGE'S DISTRICT STUDENT LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE MEMBER, AND A STUDENT PARENT AT LEAD LEADERSHIP MEMBER AS WELL.
I'M LOOKING TO GAIN EXPERIENCE AND BUILD MY LEADERSHIP SKILLS FOR MY OWN PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND TO BE AN EXECUTIVE COMMUNITY LEADER, I'M SORRY, AN EFFECTIVE COMMUNITY LEADER FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
AND I LOOK FORWARD TO FU TO FUTURE.
WE ARE LOOKING TO PRESERVE AND DEVELOP TOGETHER, MS. VALERIE RODRIGUEZ, DISTRICT FIVE.
OKAY, HERE WE GO AGAIN, COLLEEN.
VAUGHN CLADE, EMILY FLEISCHER.
I BELIEVE THAT IS ALL THAT HAVE APPLIED.
AND SO, UH, HOW MANY DO YOU HAVE ON THAT LIST? MY BIANCA MALDONADO, ANDREW PEREZ.
UH, IT'D BEEN MY PLEASURE TO, TO SERVE THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
I DO HAVE SOME SIGN EXPERIENCE IN CHAPTER 28, AND, AND I AM A MASTER ELECTRICIAN.
I DO HAVE A SIGN COMPANY, AND I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO HELP IN ANY WAY POSSIBLE I CAN.
SO I KNOW I SAY 19 HERE, UH, WE SEE 19 APPLICANTS, BUT TWO OF THOSE WERE ALSO ONES THAT CAME AND PRESENTED THEMSELVES.
SO I THINK IT WAS A COMPLETE TOTAL OF 21.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT
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ON THE RECORD.UM, I THINK AT THAT POINT, IT, IT IS UP TO THE COMMITTEE ON HOW THEY WANT TO ADDRESS, UH, DELIBERATION.
I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR US TO, UH, GO TO EXECUTIVE SESSION TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT.
SO THE TIME IS NOW 8 57 ON MAY THE SIXTH, SIXTH, UM, 2022, THE SIGN CODE COMMITTEE OF THE BUILDING RELATED AND FIRES CODE APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WILL NOW CONVENE AN EXECUTIVE SESSION PURSUANT TO TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE PERSONNEL MATTERS SECTION 5 51 0.074, AND ATTORNEY CLIENT CONSULTATION SECTION 5 5 1 0 7 1.
AT THIS TIME, JOSEPH HARNEY OF THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WILL JOIN THE COMMITTEE IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
ONCE THE EXECUTIVE SESSION HAS CONCLUDED, THE COMMITTEE CAN RE WE'LL RECONVENE THE MEETING, UH, WITH A STATEMENT, UH, FROM THE CHAIR.
ANY OTHER ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS MR. HORNEY? OKAY.
UH, PRESIDENT, UH, WE'LL JUST BE SITTING THROUGH THAT EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE.
I'LL TRY TO KEEP EVERYBODY UPDATE ON, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST SOME TIMEFRAMES.
UH, HOPEFULLY THIS ISN'T TOO, TOO LONG.
WE DO HAVE A FULL AGENDA THAT WE'D LIKE TO STILL GET THROUGH TODAY.
JEREMY, ARE WE READY TO GO? HOLD ON.
NO, JUST DO YOU WANT, DO YOU WANT TO COME OVER HERE? NO, I'M FINE.
OR DO YOU HAVE THE EMAIL PASSWORD? YOU WROTE THAT? NO, I DIDN'T WRITE IT.
THAT'LL GET YOU THE INTERNET, BUT IT WON'T PUT THIS ON THE SCREEN.
YEAH, I THINK WE'RE RECORDING.
AND THE TIME IS NOW 9:31 AM ON MAY 6TH, 2022.
THE SIGNED CODE COMMITTEE OF THE BUILDING RELATED AND FIRE CODES APPEAL AND ADVISORY BOARD OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WILL NOW RECONVENE AN OPEN SESSION.
NO OFFICIAL ACTION WAS TAKEN IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
AND I'D LIKE TO START OUT, UH, BY THANKING ALL 21 PEOPLE FOR APPLYING FOR THE POSITION.
IT'S PROBABLY THE, A VERY DIFFICULT FOR US, BECAUSE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU WAS QUALIFIED TO SERVE UP HERE.
AND BY ORDINANCE WE'RE LIMITED TO FOUR.
AND SO, AGAIN, I WANT TO JUST GO OVER WHAT THE PROCESS IS GONNA BE BEFORE, UH, WE TAKE UP THE CONSIDERATION FOR THE FOUR IS WE ARE GONNA HAVE AN OPEN PROCESS, EACH AGENDA ITEM, UH, WHETHER YOU'RE ONE OF THE APPOINTED PERSONS SITTING UP ON THE, UH, THE BEHIND THE COUNTER, THE DAIS, OR IF YOU'RE OUT IN THE AUDIENCE, WE'RE GONNA ALLOW EVERYBODY TO PARTICIPATE.
WHAT I WOULD ASK IS THAT WHEN WE DO THAT, IF YOU'LL RAISE YOUR HAND AND I'LL POINT AT YOU AND YOU CAN COME UP TO THE MIC.
YOU'LL SAY YOUR NAME AND YOU KNOW, UH, I GUESS YOUR ADDRESS ALSO CORRECT.
NAME AND ADDRESS EVERY TIME, PLEASE.
AND WE'RE GONNA LET YOU SPEAK, AND WE'RE GONNA START OFF WITH NO TIME LIMIT OR ANYTHING, AS LONG AS THE, THE PACT BETWEEN US AND THE COMMUNITY IS WE NEED EVERYBODY TO STAY GERMANE TO THE ISSUE THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.
PLEASE DON'T GIVE US A 55 YEAR HISTORY OF WHAT'S HAPPENED.
BECAUSE IF THE PROCESS, IF, IF WE GET INTO THAT PROCESS, UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO START SETTING TIME LIMITS AND STUFF.
AND I DON'T REALLY WANT TO DO THAT.
I WOULD LIKE TO DO THIS PROCESS ONCE.
I WANT EVERYBODY TO FEEL THAT THEY HAD A CHANCE FOR THEIR INPUT.
WE, EVEN THOUGH THE, THE PERSONS APPOINTED ARE NOT VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, WE'RE GONNA TRY AS WE GO THROUGH EACH
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ISSUE TO REACH CONSENSUS SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL AT LEAST IN AGREEMENT.AND WE MAY TAKE ACTION ON ANY INDIVIDUAL ITEM AS WE GO THROUGH, OR WE MAY TABLE IT TO REALLY THINK A LITTLE HARDER ABOUT WHAT IT IS AND GET MORE INPUT.
SO THAT IS THE PROCESS WE ARE GOING TO USE.
WE ARE GOING TO TRY TO BE RESPECTFUL OF EVERYBODY'S TIME, AND WE WANT Y'ALL TO BE RESPECTFUL OF YOUR PEERS AND OTHER PEOPLE'S TIME IN THE ROOM.
SO WHEN YOU'RE GETTING UP, YOU KNOW, I'M A BOTTOM LINE UP FRONT KIND OF PERSON.
YOU KNOW, SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY, MAKE YOUR POINT, YOU KNOW, GIVE US THE REASONS WHY, IF THAT'S IMPORTANT.
BUT STAY YOUR MAIN TO THE TOPIC.
SO AT THIS POINT, I WOULD A INTER ASK IF THERE'S A MOTION FROM THE COMMITTEE TO APPOINT THE FOUR MEMBERS.
MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE NON APPOINTED ADVISORY, UH, PUBLIC MEMBERS BY THE NAME OF GREG MANN.
PATTY ZIONS, BIANCA MALDONADO, AND COLLEEN WAGON.
IS THERE A SECOND, UH, CHAIR? YES.
UH, MR. JACK, UH, IS THAT A RECOMMENDATION OR IS THAT A MOTION? YOU STATED RECOMMENDATION.
SORRY FOR MIS WORDING THAT I, I'M, I'M MAKING A MOTION.
IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND A MOTION.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
I'D LIKE TO INVITE ANY OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE JUST APPOINTED TO JOIN US.
WE'LL GO AHEAD AND ASSIST THEM.
UM, ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO JOIN US FROM THE DIOCESE.
AND SO THAT WAS BIANCA IS, SO WE HAVE TWO, AND THEN I THINK MY UNDERSTANDING IS MAYBE WHO'S THE THIRD ONE OR THE FOURTH ONE? GREG, PATTY, BIANCA, AND COLLEEN.
AND I DON'T THINK COLLEEN COLLEEN'S YOUR CURRENT, LIKE, OKAY.
AND THAT, AND WHEN YOU SIT SOMEWHERE, SIT SOMEWHERE THAT YOU HAVE THE SCREEN THAT YOU CAN SEE THE AGENDA RIGHT HERE.
WHAT? YEAH, I'D SIT IT PERFECT.
AND THEN IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, PUSH TO TALK AND YOU HAVE TO HOLD IT DOWN WHILE YOU SPEAK.
SO IF YOU DON'T SEE THE LITTLE GREEN OR RED LIGHT, IT DOESN'T WORK.
OH, MAYBE IT'S 'CAUSE YOUR WIND.
AT THIS POINT I WILL TURN THE, THE MEETING BACK OVER TO JEREMY TO ANNOUNCE THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM.
ALRIGHT, SO WE ARE NOW MOVING TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR.
UH, WHAT WE HAVE IS MOVING INTO RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHANGES TO THE CHAPTER 28 THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED.
UH, TODAY'S AGENDA HAS FOUR RECOMMENDATIONS FROM OUTSIDE OF STAFF OF D S D, AND THEN THREE INTERNAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, CHAPTER 28, AMENDMENT, ITEM NUMBER ONE DASH ONE, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.
SO WHAT WE RECEIVED IS ONE FORM WITH THIS ONE HAS THREE REQUESTED CHANGES.
SO IT'LL BE ONE DASH ONE, ONE DASH TWO, AND ONE DASH THREE AS IT AGENDA ITEMS. UH, THIS IS AN EXTERNAL REQUEST.
UH, IT'S REQUEST FOR THE CERTIFICATION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WITH TXDOT FOR CLEAR MANAGEMENT OF SIGN RULES AND REGULATION BY CSO MU MU MULTIPLE CODES SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 28.
SO THIS WOULD, UM, MOST LIKELY AMEND A LOT OF AREAS OF CHAPTER 28 IF WE WENT THIS OR MAYBE NONE AT ALL.
WE GOTTA DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH ON THAT.
BUT I'LL GO AHEAD AND PULL UP THE, UH, SUBMITTED REQUEST.
AND JEREMY, YOU'RE GONNA DO 'EM ONE AT A TIME, RIGHT? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO THIS ONE FORM HAS THREE ON IT, BUT WE'LL DISCUSS EACH ONE ONE INDIVIDUALLY, AND IF, UM, THE APPLICANT OF THIS WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND TALK TO THE COMMITTEE AT ANY TIME, YOU KNOW, WE'LL LEAVE THAT UP TO
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THE, THE CHAIR AND THE COMMITTEE TO, TO OPEN THAT FORUM.YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF OUR FIRST ONE WITH THIS COMMITTEE, SO WE'LL KIND OF SEE HOW IT GOES.
UH, BUT AS ONCE AGAIN, AS, AS THE CHAIR MENTIONED, WE WANT THIS TO KINDA BE A PUBLIC COMMENT TYPE THING.
SO IF YOU'LL GO TO THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE, THE, OKAY, SO, AND LOUIS, I ALSO HAVE THIS, SO IF YOU WANT ME TO SWITCH TO THIS AT ANY TIME, LET ME KNOW.
I MEAN, WE HAVE 'EM AS AGENDA ITEMS ONE, TWO, AND THREE I LEGAL.
DO WE HAVE ANY ISSUES IF WE'RE KIND OF BOUNCING BETWEEN THOSE OR HOW SHOULD WE APPROACH THAT? WE, WE GONNA HAVE TO ADDRESS THEM INDIVIDUALLY, BUT, UH, UH, LOUIS, IF YOU WANT TO START WITH DIFFERENT ONE, IF THE CHAIR IS OKAY TO CHANGE THAT SEQUENCE.
WE CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT IF IT MAKES MORE SENSE IN A DIFFERENT ORDER, THAT'S FINE.
IS THIS MICROPHONE ON? UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UH, LOUIS, JUST REAL QUICK, SO WHICH ITEM DO YOU WANNA START WITH? JEREMY NEEDS TO SPECIFICALLY STATE THAT I WILL, I'LL START WITH THE REPAIR MAINTENANCE CLARIFICATION.
WHICH I THINK IS THE THIRD ON THIS REPORT.
JEREMY, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT AND READ THAT TO THE RECORD AND THEN WE CAN START? YES, SIR.
SO THIS WOULD BE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, CHAPTER 28, AMENDMENT ITEM ONE DASH THREE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO ADOPT A CLEAR OFF-PREMISE MAINTENANCE LANGUAGE AND PERMITTING PROCESS.
THIS WOULD AFFECT MULTIPLE CODE SECTIONS OF THE CHAPTER 28.
AND THEN OF COURSE, LUIS DE LA TORE.
I AM, UH, MY ADDRESS IS 74 TWIN BRIDGE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS.
I AM THE PRESIDENT, GENERAL MANAGER OF CLEAR CHANNEL OUTDOOR HERE IN SAN ANTONIO.
AND I ALSO HOLD THE SIGN BUILDER'S LICENSE FOR OUR COMPANY WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
UH, AND WITH ME THAT WILL BE HELPING TODAY, OF COURSE.
TOM LAMBFORD IS OUR, UH, OUR, UH, VICE PRESIDENT OF REAL ESTATE AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, AND WE HAVE TIM ANDERSON, WHO IS OUR VP OF REGULATORY AFFAIRS FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS, WHO'LL BE ADDRESSING SOME OF THE OTHER ITEMS, INCLUDING THIS ONE.
SO AS WE DISCUSSED, WE HAVE THREE SUGGESTIONS THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO MAKE WITH THE BOARD, UH, TODAY.
KNOW THAT CLEAR CHANNEL OUTDOORS HAS BEEN A PART OF THE STAKEHOLDERS GROUP SINCE ITS INCEPTION, AND SUCCESSFULLY WORK THROUGH SEVERAL OF THE PAST MODIFICATIONS, AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT TODAY.
SO THE FIRST IS TO ADOPT A OFF-PREMISE REPAIR AND ROUTINE MAINTENANCE LANGUAGE IN THE PERMITTING PROCESS.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE VIEW AS A CHALLENGE IS THAT AS WE LOOK AT CHAPTER 28 AND THE SECTION IS FIVE C TWO, IT STATES THAT THE DIRECTOR AND ITS DESIGNEES SHALL RECEIVE APPLICATIONS, REVIEW DOCUMENTS, AND ISSUE PERMITS FOR THE ERECTION, REPAIR, ALTERATION, ADDITION, DEMOLITION, AND RELOCATION OF SIGN STRUCTURES.
THERE'S ALSO SOME COMMENTARY IN 28 9 THAT SAYS THAT A REPAIR PERMIT MUST BE ISSUED BEFORE ANY LEGAL SIGN CAN BE REPAIRED.
WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOME BETTER DEFINITION AROUND THAT.
SO WE FEEL IT'S IMPORTANT TO CLARIFY WHAT REPAIR SHOULD REQUIRE PERMITTING AS, AND CLARIFYING WHAT BASIC MAINTENANCE CAN BE CARRIED OUT WITHOUT PERMITTING.
SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REPAIR AND BASIC MAINTENANCE, JUST FROM A SPECIFICATION.
SO SOME BACKGROUND ON THE LANGUAGE THAT WE ARE SUGGESTING.
IN 2009, THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION CAN CONVENED A CONTROL WORKSHOP TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF CUSTOMARY MAINTENANCE ON SIGNS.
AND THE CONTROL GROUP INCLUDED TEXAS EIGHT OTHER STATES, AND THOSE MANAGERS WERE CHARGED WITH CREATING GUIDANCE REGARDING WHAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED CUSTOMARY MAINTENANCE FOR WHICH NO PERMIT SHOULD BE NEEDED.
AND WHAT IS A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO ANY SIGN THAT WOULD DEFINITELY REQUIRE PERMITTING.
SO THE GROUP CREATED GUIDANCE, UH, SOME, SOME GUIDANCE MEMORANDUM, AND IT'S PART OF THE LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT AND PROPOSING TODAY.
UM, AND SO SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT IS CONSIDERED ROUTINE MAINTENANCE AND ACTIVITIES THAT DO NOT AND KNOW THAT WE'RE TRYING TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE AS ALWAYS, AND WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHEN IT IS THAT WE DO AND WHEN IT IS THAT WE DON'T NEED TO PUT PERMITS IN OR REQUEST AN APPLICATION FOR A PERMIT BEING ON MAINTENANCE OR REPAIR.
SO WE'RE SAYING, AND THE THE LANGUAGE STATES THAT ROUTINE MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES THAT DO NOT REQUIRE OR SHOULD NOT REQUIRE AMENDED PERMITS ARE THINGS LIKE REPLACEMENT OF NUTS AND BOLTS, UH, NAILING RIVETING WELDING, CLEANING AND PAINTING MANIPULATION OF A SIGN STRUCTURE TO MAINTAIN ITS BEING LEVEL CHANGING OF AN ADVERTISING MESSAGE, THE REPLACEMENT OF MINOR PARTS, ASSUMING THAT THE PARTS ARE THE SAME THAT YOU'RE REPLACING, UH, AND UPGRADING EXISTING LIGHTING FOR ENERGY EFFICIENT LIGHTING.
GO THROUGH A PROCESS OF, YOU KNOW, MODERNIZING OUR LIGHTING ON THE BOARDS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE MORE EFFICIENT.
UM, THOSE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT WE FEEL LIKE, UH, AREN'T, AREN'T AS CLEAR AS WE'D
[00:35:01]
LIKE THEM TO BE, BUT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO AS JUST PART OF OUR MAINTENANCE.WHEN IT COMES TO REPAIR, WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, ITEMS THAT LISTED AS NEEDING A PERMIT FOR THINGS THAT ARE MAJOR, REPLACING POLES, ADDING CATWALKS, ADDING LIGHTS TO NON ILLUMINATED SIGNS, CHANGING THE NUMBER OF POLES IN A SIGN STRUCTURE, ADDING PERMANENT BRACING OR GUY WIRES OR REINFORCING DEVICES, CHANGING THE MATERIAL USE FROM WOOD TO METAL, FOR EXAMPLE.
UH, ADDING FACES TO A SIGN OR CHANGING THE SIGNS CONFEDERATE CONFIGURATION FROM SAY A V SIGN TO A BACK TO BACK SIGN, INCREASING THE HEIGHT OF A SIGN OR CHANGING THE HEIGHT OF A SIGN AND CHANGING THE CONFIGURATION OF A SIGN STRUCTURE.
SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE FEEL AND THE GUIDANCE SHOWS SHOULD REQUIRE PERMITTING AS OPPOSED TO JUST REPAIR ITEMS THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE.
I SHOULD SAY MAINTENANCE ITEMS THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE.
SO WE'D ASK THE BOARD TO REVIEW THE CURRENT CODE IN THIS LANGUAGE FOR CLARIFICATION, CONSIDER ADOPTING SOME OR ALL OF THE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE.
I WOULD ASK AT THIS TIME, DOES ANYONE IN THE, UH, GALLERY HAVE ANY COMMENT OR WOULD LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING FOR AGAINST QUESTIONS? SO COULDN'T SOMEONE FROM STAFF UH, JUST ENLIGHTEN US ON THE, THE I AGREE IT SHOULD, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO DEFINE WHAT, WHAT IS MAINTENANCE AND WHAT IS REPAIR SO THAT IT'S CLEAR AND EVERYBODY KNOWS.
SO IS REPLACEMENT OF LIGHTING, SO IF YOU GO FROM SWITCHING OUT ALL THE FIXTURES IN A LIT SIGN FROM LET'S SAY REGULAR TO L E D, YOU KNOW, I KNOW ON A, ON A REGULAR SIGN YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET A PERMIT TO DO THAT.
SO CAN WE GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON WHAT IF IT'S A REGULAR SIGN AND IT WASN'T LIKE A BILLBOARD SIGN, WHAT WOULD BE THE RULES FOR REPAIR VERSUS SOMETHING THAT WOULD REQUIRE A PERMIT? GOOD MORNING, MR. CHAIR.
ART ELIZONDO, UH, CHIEF SITE INSPECTOR, UH, MR. DELATORRE IS TALKING ABOUT OFF-PREMISE DESIGN.
WHAT YOU'RE INDICATING IS ON-PREMISE.
SO THERE'S A DISTINCTION, SO ON.
AND THEN THE LIGHTING, IS IT THE INTERNAL LIGHTING? SO NORMALLY THEY, UNDER GENERAL MAINTENANCE, AN ON-PREMISE SIGN, IF THEY HAVE INTERNAL FLUORESCENT LIGHT BULBS, THEY CAN CONVERT THOSE TO LEDS, WHICH IS A NEW TECHNOLOGY.
THOSE WE DO NOT ANY PERMITS FOR, UH, UNTIL THEY MESS WITH THE STRUCTURE, THE CABINET, THEY, THEY BRING IT DOWN OR THEY DO OTHER ALTERS TO THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE, THEN THAT'S WHEN THE PERMIT PROCESS KICKS IN.
SO ANYTHING SHORT OF ALTERATION TO THE STRUCTURE THEY CAN DO WITHOUT A PERMIT? PRETTY MUCH? NO.
THEY CANNOT DO ANY, ANY ALTERATIONS TO AN EXISTING STRUCTURE UNLESS THERE IS A PERMIT.
BUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE ALTERATION.
SO REPLACING LIGHT BULBS, WIRING, ALL THAT IS REPAIR REQUIRED, THAT FALLS UNDER GENERAL MAINTENANCE? YES, SIR.
AND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS THE SAME KIND OF DEFINITIONS FOR OFF-PREMISE SITES? YES.
JUST WHAT IS AND WHAT ISN'T SO THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE.
ANY QUESTIONS? UH, ART, UH, LIDDEL TOY ART, DO, DO THEY REQUIRE, SO SAY LIKE LUIS, UM, WITH THE WINDS WE HAD THE OTHER DAY, IF YOU GUYS HAVE WRAPS AND THEY BLOW OFF, DO THEY HAVE TO BE PERMITTED? NO, SIR.
SO THEN, ALRIGHT, SO THEN YOU CAN CHANGE THOSE CONCURRENTLY YOU CHANGE THEM, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO THEN IZING PURPOSES, RIGHT? OR NOT OKAY.
THE COMMITTEE, ANY COMMENTS FROM THE GALLERY? OH, COOL.
JUST PRE PRESS YOUR, YOU GOTTA PRESS YOUR BUTTON AND IT'S PROBABLY FOR YOU.
WHEN YOU CHANGE LIGHT BULBS FROM LIKE A NORMAL FLUORESCENT OR INCANDESCENT TO AN L E D, THE LUMEN USUALLY CHANGE THE BRIGHTNESS? YES.
IS THAT REGULATED WITHIN THE CODE? YES MA'AM.
ONCE WE RECEIVE A COMPLAINT, THEN WE GO OUT THERE IN THE EVENING AND DO A NIGHT READING WHAT WE CALL IT.
SO THE CHANGING OF THE UPGRADING TO ENERGY EFFICIENT LIGHTING IS PERMITTED WITHOUT PERMIT IS ALLOWED WITHOUT GETTING A PERMIT.
AND THEN YOU DO GO, BUT THEN HOW WOULD YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO GO OUT AND LOOK UN UNTIL SOMEBODY COMPLAINS OF THAT SIGN THAT THEY, THAT THEY SAY, OKAY, THIS SIGN IS TOO BRIGHT NOW, THEN WE HAVE TO GO OUT AND DO A NIGHT READING.
[00:40:01]
AFTER, AFTER THE FACT, PATTY, MOST OF THOSE LIGHTS THAT, THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE ON DIGITAL BILLBOARDS.SO LIKE THE, THE UPLIGHTING ON SOME OF THOSE OLDER BOARDS, YOU REALLY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TELL WITH A LIGHT METER.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY THEY WOULD DO THAT.
I APOLOGIZE, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO BECOME FAMILIAR AND I AM ABOUT LIGHTING, SO THANK YOU.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS BY STAFF OR OTHERS? SO IS THERE CONSENSUS THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO GET SOME MORE SPECIFICITY AS TO WHAT'S REPAIR AND WHAT'S, OKAY, SO I THINK YOU'RE GOOD TO GO ON THAT ONE.
AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR SIGN INSPECTORS AND ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS, IT'S JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR.
UM, THE SECOND, UH, ITEM THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR SOME CLARIFICATION OR POTENTIALLY SOME MODIFICATION IS ON THE LANGUAGE AROUND HEIGHT.
SECTION 52, UM, STATES THE FOLLOWING FOR HEIGHT? YES.
IF YOU'LL HOLD ON ONE SECOND, HE'LL GET THAT UP.
SO, UH, THAT WAS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, WHICH I JUST WANTED FOR CLARIFICATION.
SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE TABLING FOR STAFF TO GET MORE INFORMATION OR IS IT MORE YOU'RE GOOD WITH US? WELL, I THINK WE ARE, WE ARE IN CONSENSUS THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA AND SOMEBODY'S GONNA NEED TO COME BACK WITH SOME LANGUAGE, UH, AS TO WHAT THAT IS.
AND SO IF YOU WORK WITH A STAKEHOLDER TO GET SOMETHING THAT, THAT Y'ALL CAN AGREE UPON.
AND THEN IF YOU CAN'T AGREE UPON IT, UH, BRING THE ISSUES BACK TO US.
SO CHAIR, YES, THIS IS EMIN THOMAS'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UM, IN CONCEPT WE ARE OKAY WITH IT, AS YOU MENTIONED.
SO WE WOULD LIKE THE APPLICANT TO DRAFT THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT HE WANTS TO BE IN THE CODE AND THEN WE WILL WORK WITH HIM ON THAT AND BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE AT A LATER DATE.
AND SO, CORRECT, YEAH, SO THAT, THAT AGENDA WILL INCLUDE AGENDA ITEM WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT NEXT.
SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, CHAPTER 28, AMENDMENT ITEM ONE DASH TWO, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO DEFINE OFF-PREMISE HEIGHT DEFINITION TO MATCH STATE LANGUAGE FOR CLARITY, CONSISTENCY OF 60 FOOT MAX HEIGHT FROM THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY, MULTIPLE CODE SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 28.
UM, I'LL, I'LL MOVE BACK NOW TO, UH, THE DOCUMENT SUBMITTED.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH MR. CHAIR AND BOARD.
I APPRECIATE, UH, THE TIME ON THIS.
THIS IS REALLY AROUND CLARIFICATION.
UM, HEIGHT IS DEFINED IN CHAPTER 28, 52 FOR OFF-PREMISE.
AS ALL OFF-PREMISE SIGNS ERECTED SHALL NOT EXCEED 42 AND A HALF FEET, UH, IN HEIGHT ABOVE THE ADJACENT ADJACENT STREET GRADE NOT TO EXCEED A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 60 FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL.
SO THE, THE DIFFICULTY HERE IS THE PHRASING OF ADJACENT STREET GRADE.
UH, IT'S OFTEN VERY SUBJECTIVE WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS THE ADJACENT STREET.
IT COULD BE, THINK OF A SIGN, IT COULD BE AN ACCESS ROAD, IT COULD BE A SIDE ROAD, IT COULD BE THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
IT COULD ALSO BE A RAMP THAT IS IN THAT VERY SAME VICINITY OF WHAT IS THE CORRECT ADJACENT STREET GRADE.
SO THAT PHRASING IS CHALLENGING FOR US AND WE'RE ASKING FOR SOME REVIEW OF THAT.
SO WE'RE SUGGESTING THAT THE CODE LANGUAGE BE CLARIFIED TO UTILIZE A MEASUREMENT THAT IS FROM THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
IT IS, UH, IT'S CONSISTENT LANGUAGE THAT'S BEING UTILIZED BECAUSE IT'S EASY TO MEASURE AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UH, IS CONSISTENT AND PRETTY OBJECTIVE.
UH, SO WE'RE, WE'RE, THE SUGGESTED LANGUAGE IS THAT A SIGN MAY NOT BE HIGHER THAN 60 FEET BECAUSE THAT'S THE MAX, UH, FROM GRADE LEVEL OF THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
AND THE LANGUAGE SAYS AT THE CLOSEST POINT THAT IS PERPENDICULAR TO THE SIGN.
SO THE SIGNS HERE, THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY, WAY IS THERE, WE MEASURE OFF OF THAT MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
UM, AND ADDITIONALLY THE LANGUAGE WOULD SAY THAT IF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY IS BELOW THE GRADE, UH, THEN THE BASE OF THE SIGN, THE 60 FOOT WOULD BE THE MAX.
SO IT JUST DEFINES THE MEASUREMENT OF WHERE YOU'RE MEASURING THAT FROM.
UH, IT APPLIES OF COURSE ONLY TO NEW SIGNS AND SIGNS THAT ARE BUILT OR REBUILT WITHIN ALL OF THE CONFINES WITHIN CHAPTER 28 AND ALL OF THE RESTRICTIONS WITHIN CHAPTER 8 28.
I'M TALKING ABOUT ZONING, SPACING, ALL THE OTHER PIECES OF THAT.
UH, AND AGAIN, THIS LANGUAGE IS USED ACROSS THE NATION, ACROSS THE STATE OF TEXAS, JUST AS A STANDARDIZED OBJECTIVE MEASUREMENT OF THE OFF-PREMISE HEIGHT FOR BUILDING LEGALLY PERMITTED SIGNS.
SO WE'RE ASKING THE BOARD TO REVIEW THE CURRENT CODE IN THIS LANGUAGE AND CLARIFICATION, CONSIDER ADOPTING THE CLARIFYING LANGUAGE ON HEIGHT.
ANYBODY FROM THE GALLERY WISH TO COMMENT OR QUESTIONS? SO I HAVE, I'D LIKE TO START WITH SOME QUESTIONS.
[00:45:01]
FROM WHEREVER THE GROUND IS UP IS THE MAX CORRECT? NO MATTER IF THERE'S A RAMP OR WHATEVER NEXT TO IT.SO THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF A SIGN COULD BE 60 FEET? CORRECT.
AND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS TO MOVE THE MEASUREMENT OF THE 42 FEET TO THE CENTER LINE OF THE STREET, CORRECT.
BECAUSE THAT IS PERPENDICULAR THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
YEAH, SO IF YOU LOOK AT, YOU LOOK AT UH, I 35 AS AN EXAMPLE, YOU MIGHT HAVE A, A SIDE STREET, YOU MIGHT HAVE THE ACCESS ROAD, YOU MIGHT HAVE A RAMP AND YOU MIGHT HAVE THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY OF I 35.
SO WILL YOU BE FROM THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVEL WAY OF I 35? THAT'S CORRECT.
SO IS THAT LANGUAGE ALREADY PRESENT? YOU WERE REFERRING TO OTHER LANGUAGE THROUGHOUT THE STATE.
IS THAT LANGUAGE VERY CLEAR? AND IT IS GOOD CLARIFICATION.
YEAH, IT IS IN, IT IS IN TXDOT RULES, RIGHT? AM I CORRECT? CORRECT.
IT'S ALSO IN, IN, IN THE LANGUAGE THAT'S BEEN ADOPTED BY MUNICIPAL.
UH, YEAH, THIS IS JUST, THIS IS THE TEXAS TRANS CODE, RIGHT? TOM? I, I MEAN TIM THAT WE PROVIDED.
SO THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE LANGUAGE THAT IS BEING UTILIZED IN THIS EXAMPLE STATE.
SO, SO IT WOULD BE IN YOUR OPINION THAT THAT WOULD BE OKAY IF WE IF WE WERE TO ADOPT THAT AS PART OF OUR LANGUAGE? YEAH, THAT'S WHAT WE'D LIKE.
I MEAN, I JUST THINK IT MAKES IT CONSISTENT.
AND AGAIN, THESE ARE ONLY ON SIGNS THAT WE'RE BUILDING NEW OR REBUILDING BECAUSE OF CONDEMNATION OR SOMETHING OR, OR, OR RELOCATION.
SO THIS ISN'T, DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH EXISTING, IT HAS TO DO WITH JUST THAT.
AND IF IT GOT DAMAGED BY WIND OR SOMETHING AND YOU WERE PUTTING IT BACK UP, YOU WOULD FOLLOW THE NEW CODE.
IF IT GOT DAMAGED BY WIND, MORE THAN 50% OF THE VALUE OF THE SIGN, IT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BE REPLACED IF IT WAS NON-CONFORMING.
BUT, UM, YEAH, WE WOULD, IT WOULD BE JUST REPLACEMENT TO TO TO THAT HEIGHT.
AMIN, ANY COMMENT? UH, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, SO WHAT WE WANNA, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS TO ADD B ONE FROM THE GRADE LEVEL OF THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY, NOT INCLUDING A FRONTAGE ROAD OF A CONTROLLED ACCESS HIGHWAY CLOSEST TO THE SIGN AT A POINT PERPENDICULAR TO THE SIGN LOCATION, ADDING THAT LANGUAGE TO CHAPTER 28 DASH 5 21.
SO IT WOULD BE, I I THINK THAT'S KIND OF ADDED IN THIS SENSE RIGHT HERE.
WELL, IT WOULD ALSO EXPEND ON THIS, UH, ABOVE THE ADJACENT STREET GRADE, UH, THAT WOULD BE REALLY THE CHANGE IS IS THE, THE REQUEST.
AS WELL AS YOU WANT B TWO CAN, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE OTHER DOCUMENT? YOU WANT THE SECOND ONE WHERE IT SAYS IT'S BELOW IF IT'S BELOW THE CENTER GRADE? YEAH, I THINK I, I THINK THE GOAL OF THAT IS JUST TO SET THAT MAXIMUM ON THAT HEIGHT.
LIKE THE, THE MAX OF THE HEIGHT IS GOING TO BE 60, IS GONNA BE AT 60 FEET.
SO CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE CURRENT CODE? SO SHALL SHALL NOT EXCEED 42 AND ONE HALF FEET IN HEIGHT ABOVE THE ADJACENT STREET GRADE.
IS THE STREET GATE GONNA BE STRUCK OR YOU'RE GONNA ADD THE LANGUAGE THERE? UM, BECAUSE IT, TO MAKE IT 60 FEET, DO YOU HAVE TO GET AN A, A ADJUSTMENT TO GO FROM 42 BETWEEN 42 AND 60? SO TO GET TO THAT 60 FOOT, YEAH, IT'S MORE OF A MEASUREMENT POINT I THINK IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY.
SO, UH, RIGHT NOW IF IF THE MEASUREMENT POINT WAS AT 15 FOOT ABOVE THE BASE OF THE SIGN, THEN THE SIGN WOULD BE ALLOWED TO GO UP TO 57 AND A HALF.
SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO BETTER DEFINE WHERE THAT MEASUREMENT POINT SHOULD BE FOR ALL SIGNS.
AND SO THAT COR, THAT AMENDMENT IS GOING TO GO WHERE IT SAYS ADJACENT STREET GRADE, IT'LL GO TO THE CENTER POINT OF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY? CORRECT.
IS THAT WHERE IT WOULD, THAT LANGUAGE WOULD CHANGE THAT? THAT'D BE THE MEASUREMENT POINT.
THE FOUR, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE 42 AND A HALF FEET DOESN'T CHANGE.
ALL THAT'S CHANGING IS THE POINT THAT, THAT THAT IS CALCULATED FROM CORRECT.
THOSE NO, WELL I THINK BECAUSE OF THE FLUCTUATIONS OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH STREET GRADE, RIGHT? RIGHT.
WE'RE NOT SETTING THE MINIMUM, JUST THE MAXIMUM OF BEING 60 FEET FROM CENTER.
SO NOT 40, BUT IT'S ALSO 42 GRADE,
[00:50:01]
BUT THE STREET GRADE IS DEFINED, IS DEFINED AS THE MIDPOINT AND THE MAIN TRAVEL WAVE THAT'S PERPENDICULAR TO THE SIGN.SO BECAUSE OF THE FLUCTUATIONS OF WHAT I DISCUSSED WITH ACCESS ROAD SIDE, ROAD RAMP, MAIN TRAVELED WAY, WE'RE ASKING THAT IT JUST DECLARE ITS MAXIMUM OF 60 FEET, NOT THE 42 AND A HALF FEET, 60 FEET MAX FROM THE CENTER GRADE.
AM I SAYING THAT RIGHT TIM? TIM? JUST MAKING SURE.
NO, I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT.
SO 60 FOOT ABOVE THE CENTER GRADE OR 60 FOOT MAX FROM THE BASE, 60 FEET WOULD BE THE MAX FROM THE, FROM THE BASE, FROM THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
SO YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE ASKING US TO INCREASE IT FROM 42 AND A HALF FEET TO 60 FEET TO RAISE THE HEIGHT OF ALL THE SIGNS, BUT THAT'S WHEN THE TRAVEL GRADE, NOT THE GRADE ADJACENT.
I I, IT IS A CHANGE IN THE HI IN, IN THAT HEIGHT, BUT ALSO A CHANGE IN FROM WHERE IT'S MEASURED BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT CREATES THAT DIFFERENCE.
SO, UH, STAFF, I'M SORRY, UH, THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD, I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS.
SO IF THAT ADJACENT STREET GRADE MEASUREMENT IS SAY 30 FEET OFF THE GROUND AND WE CALL THAT A 30 FEET, IS THE ASK THAT THE SIGN BE A 90 FOOT SIGN? NO, THERE'S ALWAYS THE 60 MAX.
SO THAT 60 MAX WOULD BE FROM THE BASE.
SO CURRENTLY LET'S IT, IT, JUST TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A MAIN TRAVELED WAY HERE.
THERE'S A 20 FOOT ELEVATION TO THE ACCESS ROAD THAT'S ALONG I 35, LET'S JUST SAY OR CALL IT 30 FEET, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
SAY 30 FEET IS IS ABOVE CURRENTLY IF YOU'RE DETERMINING THAT THE ACCESS ROAD IS THE ADJACENT, UH, THE ADJACENT ROADWAY, WE CAN GO 42 AND A HALF FEET HIGH ON THAT BOARD IF WE'RE BUILDING AT THAT SPOT, WHICH WOULD BE, WHAT, 72 AND A HALF FEET FROM THE CENTER GRADE BECAUSE THAT ACCESS ROAD IS HIGHER.
THERE ARE OTHER TIMES WHERE THAT ACCESS ROAD IS LOWER.
THERE'S OTHER TIMES WHERE WE'RE NOT SURE WHETHER IT'S THE ACCESS ROAD THAT IS THE ADJACENT ROAD OR WHETHER IT'S A RAMP OR A SIDE ROAD THAT IS THE ADJACENT ROAD, WHICH IS WHY WE TRY TO GET THE LANGUAGE CLARIFIED TO A MEASURE POINT AND SET THE MAXIMUM THE WAY YOU HAVE SET A MAXIMUM OF 60 FEET.
SO IN THAT CASE THAT YOU JUST SAID YOUR SIGN COULD BE 90 FEET OR COULD IT BE 60 FEET, 60 MAX FROM THE MEASURED FROM THAT CENTERPIECE SAME, THE SAME MAX THAT'S LISTED IN YOUR, UH, CURRENT MEASUREMENT.
YEAH, BUT THE WAY I, THE WAY I READ THE CURRENT CODE, AND I I JUST, I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT, IS FROM THE, WHERE THE SIGN IS DUG INTO THE GROUND, THAT GRAY, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF ANY SIGN IS 60 FEET FEET, CORRECT? TOTAL.
THERE IS A SECOND LIMITATION ON THAT HEIGHT.
SO IF THE, IF THE STREET IS FLAT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THAT OFF-PREMISE SIGN THEN WOULD ONLY BE, EVEN THOUGH THE MAX IS 62 FEET, IT'S NOW LOWER TO 42 AND A HALF FEET CURRENTLY MAX BECAUSE IT CAN ONLY BE IF IT'S FLAT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, RIGHT? CORRECT.
AND SO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING US TO DO, IF IN THIS CASE IF IT'S FLAT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, IS TO DITCH THE 42 AND A HALF FEET AND MAKE EVERYTHING 60 I IN THAT CASE WHERE EVERYTHING IS FLAT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, IT WOULD, IT WOULD HAVE A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF 60.
LIKE IT'S, IT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION LIES.
SO, SO THE 16 MR RIGHT NOW IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE UP FOR THE ELEVATION CHANGE.
SO, UH, BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, WHY YEAH, WE CAN BRING SOME EXAMPLES OF, OF, OF, UH, SOME OF THESE CHALLENGES AS FAR AS MEASUREMENTS ARE CONCERNED.
BUT IF, IF, NO, I THINK, AND SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THE, THE POINT THAT IT'S FINE, YOU WOULD PROBABLY GET SUPPORT RAISING THE HEIGHT FROM 42 AND A HALF TO 60 IN ALL CASES.
I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH BOTH THE COMMITTEE POSSIBLY AND THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE BY RAISING HEIGHT.
SO I WOULD, YOU KNOW, WE'LL CONSIDER IT, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, HAVING A POINT THAT YOU DEFINE IT IS SMART BECAUSE IT IT, IT'S CLEAR AS TO WHERE THE MEASURE POINT IS, WHICH, WHICH EVERYBODY LIKES CLARITY.
OKAY? IF YOU'RE ASKING US TO RAISE BY 17 AND A HALF FEET THE, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF EVERY SIGN, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET
[00:55:01]
A DIFFERENT RESPONSE AND LOSE, POSSIBLY LOSE ON BOTH.AND SO BECAUSE I, I CAN SENSE FROM, AND THERE'S, THERE'S NO, I MEAN, IN EACH SITUATION THERE ARE GOING TO BE EXAMPLES WHERE THE CHANGE IN LANGUAGE WOULD MAKE A SIGN HIGHER AND MAKE US OTHERS THAT WOULD MAKE THE SIGN LOWER DEPENDING UPON, BECAUSE MOST ROADS ARE NOT GOING TO BE FLAT ALL THE WAY ACROSS.
SO IT WOULDN'T BEHOOVE ME TO MAKE, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASES WHERE THERE, THERE'S AN ELEVATION CHANGE TO THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY TO CHANGE THE MEASUREMENT BUT NOT CHANGE AND, AND, AND LEAVE THE HEIGHT AT 42 AND A HALF FEET.
BECAUSE THEN, THEN LET'S SAY, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT AN ELEVATED, AN ELEVATED ROAD, BUT I'VE GOT A DEPRESSED ACCESS ROAD BEING ABLE TO GO 42 AND A HALF FEET FROM HERE, I MIGHT NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO FIT A SIGN THAT'S 14 FEET TALL.
WELL, NO, I, I THINK THE COME OKAY, SO PLEASE IDENTIFY SURE.
YEAH, IT'S ON TIM ANDERSON, CLEAR CHANNEL OUTDOOR, JOHNSON CITY, TEXAS.
UM, THE WAY IT WORKS IS THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY IS WHAT IS THE, THE POSSIBLE FLUCTUATING POINT OF MEASUREMENT, THE MAIN TRAVEL WAY AND WE CALL, CALL IT THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVEL WAY.
I'M GONNA BE HYPER-TECHNICAL HERE.
IT'S NOT THE CENTER LINE OF THE HIGHWAY, IT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS.
THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVEL WAY MEANS THE ROAD THAT IS ADJACENT, PERPENDICULAR AND ADJACENT TO THE SIGN THAT THE CARS ARE GOING ONE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL.
SO IF, IF, IF WE'VE GOT, UH, A LINE OF I 10 GOING THIS WAY AND THEN ANOTHER LINE OF I 10 GOING THIS WAY, WHATEVER'S THE CLOSEST RIGHT? IT'S THE CROWN OF THE HIGHWAY, THAT'S THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVEL WAY.
OBVIOUSLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PIECE OF ROAD THAT CARRIES THE MOST TRAFFIC.
SO WHEN, IF, IF YOU HAD THE SITUATION, THIS IS WHERE I HAD TO JUMP IN FROM MR. DELATORRE.
IF YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHERE THE FRONTAGE ROAD IS DOWN HERE AND NOW THEY'VE ELEVATED IT, WHICH DIDN'T HAPPEN BY THE WAY WHEN THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PUT IN PROBABLY 30, 40 YEARS AGO, WE WERE NOT ELEVATING HIGHWAYS.
SO WHAT THEY CAN DO IS THEN YOU WOULD HAVE THE 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THAT MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
SO WE COULD STILL GET THE VISUAL WE NEED.
BUT IF THAT MAIN TRAVELED WAY WAS HERE AND IT WAS A RAMP, FOR EXAMPLE, A RAMP IS NOT A MAIN TRAVELED WAY.
SO WE GET 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THAT MAIN TRAVELED WAY IF WE GET BLOCKED BY, BY THE RAMP OR BAD.
SO LET ME, LET ME ASK A QUESTION.
BECAUSE I THINK IT, IT'S LOOP FOUR 10 AND AND I 35 EVERYWHERE OUTSIDE OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA WHERE YOU HAVE ELEVATED MM-HMM.
SO, SO IT'S JUST YOU GO PERPENDICULAR LINE WHEREVER THE MAIN, THE THE HIGHEST POINT OF THE DIRECTION THAT THE SIGN IS GOING ON.
AND THEN IF THERE, IF IT'S ELEVATED, YOU CAN GO UP HIGHER, BUT NO MORE THAN 60 FEET FROM GREAT.
IT WOULD WELL THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN AND, AND I'M TELLING YOU THE WAY TEXTILE ENFORCES IT, SO THIS IS NOT THAT I'M ASKING NO, I UNDERSTAND.
I'M TRYING WHAT, WHAT THE RU THE RULE RIGHT NOW IS YOU'RE PICKING A STREET, THE THEREFORE YOU HAVE TO DEFINE STREET AS THE RULE READS.
RIGHT NOW IT SAYS FROM THE ADJACENT STREET, WELL WHAT IS THE STREET? IT DOESN'T SAY HIGHWAY, IT DOESN'T SAY FRONTAGE ROAD, IT SAYS STREET.
WELL EVERYTHING THAT A CAR RUNS ON IS A STREET.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SUGGESTING.
THERE IS THE AMBIGUITY OF, AND AND, AND THROUGH NOBODY'S FAULT, IT'S NOT DEFINED.
SO WHAT TXDOT DID WAS SAY, LOOK, YOU, WE AS A BUSINESS WANNA BE SEEN FROM THE MOST CARS.
THAT'S HOW WE MAKE OUR MONEY
SO LET'S PICK THE ROAD WHERE THE MOST CARS ARE TRAVELING AND USE THAT AS OUR POINT TO, TO UH, MEASURE.
SO IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA MM-HMM.
SO UNDER WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING MM-HMM.
[01:00:01]
STREET, THERE COULD BE ANOTHER ONE OUT THERE, BUT THERE'S SEVERAL GRADES.SO THE WAY YOU'RE DEFINING IT IS 60 FEET, THAT SIGN FROM THE GROUND IS 60 FEET HIGH AS A MAX.
AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.
NO, I DON'T, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT'S WHAT WAS PROPOSED.
SO CAN YOU DO AS I, I WOULD SUGGEST, BECAUSE THERE IS CONFUSION AMONG US AND IS TO COME BACK AND WE'LL PICK IT UP, TABLE IT FOR ANOTHER MEETING AND COME BACK WITH SOME EXACT DESIGNS AND, AND MAKE 'EM SIMPLE, YOU KNOW, OF YES, I UNDERSTAND.
AND AND I WOULD GIVE TWO OR THREE DIFFERENT EXAMPLES.
ONE IS THE DOWNTOWN AREA WHERE YOU HAVE THE ELEVATED HIGHWAYS.
I WOULD GO, YOU KNOW, TO LOOP FOUR 10 MM-HMM.
THAT'S OKAY WITH THE COMMITTEE.
YOU'LL GET, YOU'LL GET MORE LOOKS AT THAT.
AND JUST, JUST TO JACK UP MORE HERE, JUST AS A, UH, YOU KNOW, BACK WHEN THIS WAS ALL DONE AND WHEN THERE WERE NO ELEVATED, AND WE MAY NOT BE AROUND BUT SOON IT MAY HAVE TRIPLE LEVEL RIGHT? MIGHT HAVE THREE OF US
BUT I'M JUST SAYING IF IT IS REGARDLESS, IT'S STILL 60 FEET, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? OR WE WELL, WE'RE WE'LL GET THE EXAM.
LET'S, LET'S JUST, YEAH, JUST MAKE THAT CLEAR.
IS THAT OKAY WITH EVERYBODY ON THE COMMITTEE? OKAY.
JEREMY, YOU WANNA READ THE THIRD? MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN I JUST JUMP IN FOR A SECOND? YES.
THIS IS MIKE SHANNON, UM, WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UH, SO GOOD CODE DISCUSSION WHERE IT REALLY GET INTO THE WEEDS AND CERTAINLY OUR TEAM WILL WORK WITH, UH, THE APPLICANTS.
WE WANT TO GET YOU, UM, PROPOSED EXACT LANGUAGE TO EVENTUALLY LIKE THE FIRST ONE, UM, ON ALL OF THESE THAT YOU'LL SEE TODAY IN, IN THE FUTURE.
UH, BUT I WILL JUST LET EVERYONE KNOW IN THE AUDIENCE AND THE BOARD MEMBERS, WE DO HAVE SOME COFFEE AND WATER AS WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS.
WE, WE MAY NEED A LITTLE CAFFEINE FOR THIS, SOME OF US, UH, IN THE TOBIN ROOM.
SO FEEL FREE TO, UH, HELP YOURSELF.
IT WAS A LITTLE LATE, BUT UH, IT'S THERE NOW.
SO THAT WOULD BE ITEM AGENDA FOUR IS THE NEXT ONE, CORRECT? YES SIR.
SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM ONE DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST FOR CERTIFICATION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WITH TDOT FOR CLEAR MANAGEMENT OF SIGNED RULES AND REGULATIONS BY CSSA.
UH, IF, IF WE WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS, THEN WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 28 THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT FOR THAT.
UM, CERTIFICATION RIGHT NOW FOR AN OUTDOOR ADVERTISER TO GET A LICENSE TO ERECT A STRUCTURE AND TO MAINTAIN A STRUCTURE, WE ARE REQUIRED TO SATISFY TWO MASTERS, IF YOU WILL.
WE HAVE THE CITY WHO HAS A SIGN CODE SUBJECT THAT IS, THAT IS GIVEN THE POWER THAT IS GIVEN TO THEM THROUGH THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE OR THE STATE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE.
UM, THE STATE THROUGH THE TRANSPORTATION CODE ALSO REGULATES OUTDOOR ADVERTISING VIA THEIR CODE AND THEIR RULES.
SO EVERY TIME WE PUT UP A STRUCTURE, WE HAVE TO GET TWO SETS OF PERMITS.
VERY OFTEN, THESE, THESE, UH, TWO SETS OF REGULATIONS CONFLICT.
AND TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE FOR US, TXDOT TENDS TO CHANGE INTERPRETATION, SHALL WE SAY, SOMETIMES IN MIDSTREAM.
THIS RECENTLY HAS REARED ITS HEAD.
SOME OF YOU'LL RECALL, MR. ROSS, YOU WILL, ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, FOUR YEARS AGO, WE STRUCK A DEAL, CLEAR CHANNEL STRUCK A DEAL WITH THE CITY TO REMOVE A NUMBER OF SIGNS.
NOT ONLY SOME BILLBOARD LARGE STRUCTURES, BUT SOME WHAT WE CALL JUNIOR POSTERS, THE SMALLER ONES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF WHICH WE REMOVED ALL OF THEM.
AND IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE WILL BE ALLOWED TO PUT DIGITAL FACES ON THE BACKS OF THE EXISTING, THE DIGITALS THAT WERE ERECTED 10 YEARS AGO, 12 YEARS AGO.
UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVE TO ADMIT I WAS AROUND FOR THAT TOO.
SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS WE WERE GOING ALONG, WE MADE A DEAL WITH THE CITY, TXDOT CAME BACK WHEN WE TRIED TO GET THEIR RULE, THEIR, THEIR PERMIT AND LITERALLY CHANGED AN INTERPRETATION IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.
SO THERE ARE THREE DIGITAL FACES THAT WE CANNOT PUT UP.
'CAUSE TXDOT WILL NOT ALLOW THIS.
NOW, I WILL NOT SPEAK FOR OUT FRONT, BUT I BELIEVE OUTFRONT ALSO RAN INTO A SIMILAR PROBLEM WHERE THEY HAD A, A, A DEAL WITH THE CITY FOR SOME TAKE DOWNS, AND ALSO GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE TDO REGULATIONS.
SO THEY HAD TO MOVE THEIR SIGN TO A DIFFERENT LOCATION.
[01:05:01]
LARGE CITIES IN TEXAS HAVE OUR, WHAT THEY CALL, CERTIFIED FROM TXDOT.WHAT THAT SIMPLY MEANS IS TXDOT HAS A BASELINE OF RULES THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS THEY MUST FOLLOW.
I IF, IF THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THAT BASE SET OF RULES, THEY LOSE HIGHWAY FUNDS.
BUT WHAT TDO WILL DO IS SAY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW OUR MORE RESTRICTIVE REGULATIONS.
IF THE CITY IS RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO HANDLE THEIR OWN SIGN PROGRAMS, TXDOT WILL, WILL DEFER, WILL GRANT THEM AUTHORITY TO IGNORE TXDOT REGULATIONS AS LONG AS THEY COMPLY WITH THAT BASELINE FEDERAL SET OF RULES.
NOW, I WILL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S RULES ARE MUCH MORE STRICT THAN THOSE FEDERAL BASELINES.
THOSE FEDERAL BASELINES WERE SET IN 1972.
I PROMISED I WOULDN'T GO 55 YEARS BACK, BUT I CAN'T HELP IT
UM, SO WHAT WE ARE COMING TO THE CITY FOR IS WE HAVE SEEN THAT AS THE CITY CONTINUES TO GROW AND WE CONTINUE TO CONTINUE TO WANT OUR DO OUR OUTDOOR ADVERTISING BUSINESS AS OPERATORS, THERE ARE GONNA BE MULTIPLE TIMES WHEN THE CITY WILL HAVE HIGHWAY PROJECTS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THERE WILL BE AN OUTDOOR ADVERTISING SIGN THERE.
WE WOULD LIKE TO RELOCATE THAT SIGN.
WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THAT SIGN TO A DIFFERENT AREA WITH THE CITY'S PERMISSION.
HOWEVER, SOMETIMES TDOT GETS IN THE WAY AND SAYS, NO, OUR REGULATIONS WON'T ALLOW IT.
OKAY? WHAT HAS HAPPENED NOW WITH THAT DIGITAL PROGRAM IS AS A, AS A LAWYER, WE CALL IT A BENEFIT OF THE BARGAIN.
EVERY, EVERY SIDE GETS, GETS SOMETHING, EVERY SIDE GIVES SOMETHING.
WELL, WE BEING CLEAR, CHANNEL TOOK DOWN ALL THE SIGNS WE SAID WE WERE GONNA TAKE DOWN.
HOWEVER, THOSE THREE DIGITALS ARE STILL MISSING.
THE ONLY WAY WE CAN GET THOSE DIGITALS UP AND GET OUR BENEFIT OF THE BARGAIN IS IF THE CITY CERTIFIES BASICALLY TELLS TXDOT, WE'LL TAKE CARE OF OUR BUSINESS.
OKAY? THAT IS GONNA HELP IN THE FUTURE.
IF THERE ARE MORE DEALS TO BE MADE, IF WE WANT TO COME IN OR OUT FRONT OR, OR ONE OF OUR BROTHERS AT LAMAR WANTS TO COME IN AND MAKE A DEAL WITH THE CITY FOR SOME MORE TAKE DOWNS AND POSSIBLY DIGITAL, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S IN THE FUTURE.
THE STATE COULD STOP THAT UNWITTINGLY, NOT INTENTIONALLY BECAUSE OF THEIR RULES.
SO IF THE CITY APPLIES TO TXDOT AND SAYS, WE WOULD LIKE CERTIFIED CITY STATUS, AND BY THE WAY, JOINING CITIES LIKE HOUSTON, DALLAS, FORT WORTH, UM, WHAT'S THAT ONE HERE? THERE'S LIKE THREE OR FOUR OF 'EM AROUND THE CITY.
HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD, HOLLYWOOD PARK, CASTLE HILLS.
CASTLE HILLS, WIN WINDCREST, ALL CERTIFIED AROUND.
SO THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THEIR DIGITALS AS FAR AS BENEFITS TO THEM WITH THE CITY WILL GO TO TXDOT AND JUST SIMPLY SAY, WE WOULD LIKE TO BE CERTIFIED.
TXDOT WANTS PROOF THAT THERE'S A SIGN ORDINANCE DONE.
TXDOT WANTS PROOF THAT THERE IS A REGULATORY SYSTEM IN PLACE TO, TO, UH, ENSURE THAT REGULATIONS ARE BEING FOLLOWED, DONE.
THE ONLY THING REQUIRED FROM THE CITY IS THE CITY MUST SUBMIT TO TEXT OUT A YEARLY INVENTORY.
THEY'VE GOT IT DONE AND THEY HAVE TO PARTICIPATE AT LEAST SO FAR IN A TWO HOUR ZOOM CALL EVERY YEAR SO THAT TXDOT CAN JUST KIND OF GO OVER WHATEVER T STOCK GOES OVER.
THAT'S ALL THAT'S REQUIRED FROM THE CITY.
NO MONEY, NO MORE PERSONNEL, NO NOTHING.
AND AT THAT POINT, THE CITY COULD COME AND THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD BE ABLE TO, TO WORK WITH THE OPERATORS SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO OUR BUSINESS IN A GOOD, IN A WAY, TEX, THAT CITY CAN, UH, REAP THE BENEFITS.
FOR EXAMPLE, SIGN TAKE DOWNS, AND THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL BENEFIT THAT PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE RELOCATING SIGNS.
THERE ARE TWO CHOICES, RELOCATE OR BUY IT.
THERE'S NO REASON FOR THE CITY TO BE SPENDING ASPHALT FUNDS ON AN OUTDOOR ADVERTISING STRUCTURE IF IT CAN BE RESPONSIBLY MOVED.
ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO, WE BROUGHT THE OUTDOOR ADVERTISING MANAGER OF TXDOT IN TO MEET WITH THE CITY.
MIKE, MIKE ART WAS THERE, I BELIEVE, AND I THINK ANDREW WAS THERE AT THE TIME.
WE MET WITH, WE, WE BROUGHT THEM IN TO, SO THAT SHE COULD EXPLAIN, HELP US EXPLAIN TO DEVELOPMENT STAFF, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, STAFF, WHAT CERTIFICATION WAS, WHAT WAS REQUIRED OF THEM, ET CETERA.
AFTER THAT MEETING, AND I I, I CHECKED WITH MIKE JUST BEFORE TO BE SURE I WASN'T SPEAKING OUTTA TURN.
THE CITY WAS, I THINK GENERALLY APPROVING.
I MEAN, THE DEVELOP DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WAS, WAS GENERALLY APPROVING AND SAID, YEAH, THIS SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE ROAD TO GO DOWN.
SO DUST WHEN, BUT THEY DID SAY WE WANT THE COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER IT WHEN IT COMES BACK UP IN THREE YEARS.
[01:10:01]
WELL AFTER COVID, HERE WE ARE FIVE YEARS LATER.SO, SO CLEAR CHANNEL WOULD LIKE THE COMMITTEE TO APPROVE THAT, THIS, THAT, AND OF COURSE IT'S GONNA CONTINUE THROUGH, WOULD SEEK A CERTIFICATION FROM TXDOT.
SO ESSENTIALLY THEY CAN HANDLE THEIR OWN BUSINESS.
UH, TIM, SIR LIDDEL TOY, UM, IS THAT THREE BILLBOARDS THAT ARE NOT, UH, NOT WORKING RIGHT NOW, OR, UH, ARE THEY THE ORIGINAL? UM, 13, I THINK IT WAS.
NO, THE THREE ARE AT THE BACKSIDE ADD-ONS.
OH, THESE ARE, THESE ARE THE BACKSIDE? CORRECT.
MIKE AMIN, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UM, AGAIN, CONCEPT WISE, I BELIEVE WE ARE OKAY WITH THE CONCEPT, BUT, UH, WE HAVEN'T DONE THE RESEARCH YET.
WE ARE GONNA DO SOME RESEARCH.
AS TIM MENTIONED, THERE IS OTHER CITIES IN TEXAS THAT ARE CERTIFIED.
THERE IS SOME CITIES THAT THEY WERE CERTIFIED, GOT DE-CERTIFIED.
SO WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SOME, YOU KNOW, MORE RESEARCH, GET, YOU KNOW, ALL THE INFORMATION AND THEN WE CAN BRING IT BACK TO THE BOARD.
AND, AND THIS IS MIKE SHANNON AGAIN.
SO WHAT, WHAT WHAT TIM HAD MENTIONED IS, UH, WE IN GENERAL ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF STREAMLINING THE GOVERNMENT AND PERMITTING PROCESS, RIGHT? UM, WE'VE DONE THAT OVER THE YEARS IN THIS DEPARTMENT WHERE WE'VE GOTTEN RID OF SOME LOCAL REQUIREMENTS AND DEFERRED TO THE STATE.
THINK OF OUR, THINK OF OUR TRADE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT WITH YOUR PLUMBER AN ELECTRICAL.
UH, SO IN CONCEPT WE'RE, WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF STREAMLINING THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS OF PERMITTING.
WE'RE VERY CONFIDENT IN OUR ABILITY TO REGULATE, UM, OFF-PREMISE ADVERTISING.
WE HAVE A PRETTY STRONG CODE, I THINK.
UM, SO, UH, BUT WE, BUT WE DEFINITELY, AND I THINK TIM HIT HIT IT ON THE HEAD.
WE, WE WANT, WE WANT AN OPEN DISCUSSION ABOUT THIS AT THE COMMITTEE AND, AND WITH THE OPEN PUBLIC, UH, TO SEE IF YOU GUYS THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA AS WELL.
AND, AND AS, I MEAN, WE, WE STILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH TO DO, UH, WITH TALKING TO SOME OF THOSE CITIES.
WE'VE TALKED WITH A COUPLE OF THE CITIES A COUPLE YEARS AGO, UM, AND THE STATE.
BUT, UM, BUT IN GENERAL, I MEAN, GOOD GOVERNMENT, GOOD PROCESSES THAT ARE, THAT ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, EASY TO GO THROUGH AND, AND SAY YES OR NO, UH, FOR A PERMIT I THINK IS APPROPRIATE.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW, AND WE'D LOVE SOME THANK YOU CONVERSATION BY THE COMMITTEE AND, AND THE PUBLIC.
ANYBODY FROM THE GALLERY HAVE COMMENT EITHER WAY.
COMMITTEE, I, I, I'D LIKE TO HEAR MORE INFORMATION ON YOUR DISCUSSIONS WHEN GET A LITTLE MORE DETAILED, BECAUSE I'M NEW AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW MORE.
BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO KNOW WHERE YOUR THREE SIGNS ARE THAT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWING YOU TO.
BUT THE DOUBLE FACE ON, THAT'S A, THAT'S TEXT DOT NOT ALLOWING YOU TO DO THE DOUBLE FACE TO PUT YOUR SIGNAGE ON THE REVERSE.
AND, AND KNOW THAT WE HAVE A T PERMIT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF EACH OF THESE BOARDS.
SO, AND THEY'RE DIGITAL, RIGHT? YES.
SO IT IS, UH, FOUR 10 NDOS, 1604 AND NORTHWEST MILITARY.
AND FOUR 10 AND BANDERA ARE THE THREE LOCATIONS THAT, UH, HAVE REMAINED PRINTED AND NOT ABLE TO BE CONVERTED BECAUSE OF PERMITTING.
CAN I JUST ASK WHY, WHY DO THEY SAY NO? YEAH.
JUST REAL QUICK, QUICKLY, CAN I JUST REAL QUICKLY, THE SPACING REQUIREMENTS UNDER T RULES DO NOT CONFORM WITH WHAT SAN ANTONIO'S SPACING RULES ARE.
AND SO WE CANNOT GET THE, THE, THE, THE ACCOMPANYING PERMIT BECAUSE OF THOSE SPACING RULES.
I, I MEAN, I JUST GENERALLY, IF, IF THERE IS NO, YOU KNOW, PROCEDURAL ISSUE THAT IT PUTS, YOU KNOW, THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT IN THE RESEARCH.
I MEAN, ONE OF THE BAD THINGS OF THIS IS, IS THAT BASED UPON CLEAR CHANNEL'S EXPERIENCE, NO OTHER COMPANY'S GONNA COME IN AND WANT TO CUT A DEAL UNLESS THEY KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THEIR END OF THE BARGAIN, YOU KNOW, THEY GET AND RECEIVE.
I, I'M ASSUMING CLEAR CHANNEL WOULDN'T MAKE THE AGREEMENT NECESSARILY AGAIN FOR THE NEXT SET OF SIGNS UNTIL THIS ISSUE GETS RESOLVED.
AND I'M SURE, SO I THINK IT PUTS THE CITY AT DISADVANTAGE OF BEING ABLE TO TAKE DOWN SOME OF THE SIGNS AND TRADING IT FOR THE NEW TECHNOLOGY, BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, IF I WAS ON THE OTHER END OF THE NEGOTIATING, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU MADE AN AGREEMENT TO GET GIVE UP THIS TO GET THIS, BUT YOU CAN'T GET THIS.
YOU'RE GONNA WAIT UNTIL THE END PROCESS.
SO I, I THINK GENERALLY, IF Y'ALL DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM ON YOUR RESEARCH, I PERSONALLY THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA WHERE ONE
[01:15:01]
CO ONE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE CALL.AND THEN IT WOULD JUST BE WHATEVER THE SAN ANTONIO RULES ARE IS WHAT WOULD NEED TO BE FOLLOWED AS LONG AS IT MEETS THE MINIMUM OF THE FEDERAL ACT.
ANYBODY ELSE? JOE? GENERALLY GOOD? GENERALLY, YEAH.
SO I THINK, I THINK GENERALLY THE COMMITTEE IS SUPPORTIVE OF THIS BASED AND, BUT WE WILL WAIT TILL YOU PROVIDE WHATEVER RESEARCH OR DUE DILIGENCE YOU NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE IT'S OKAY.
I, I THINK WHAT WE'LL DO, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, WE'LL, WE'LL WORK, CERTAINLY DO OUR STUFF.
WE, WE CAN PRESENT THE CITY'S FORMAL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE FOUND OUT, THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND, UH, AND THEN HOW IT WOULD LOOK IF WE ADDED IT TO THE CODE AS A RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL UPON APPROVAL OF AN UPDATED CODE, UH, TO GIVE US DIRECTION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
SO WE CAN, WE'LL BRING THAT BACK AS ANOTHER AGENDA ITEM IN THE FUTURE, UM, FOR THIS GROUP.
DOES THAT SOUND FAIR, BRENDA? OKAY.
SO MOVING TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THIS IS CHAPTER 28, AMENDMENT ITEM TWO DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO ADVISE CHAPTER 10, UM, AND 28 THAT PROHIBITS DIGITAL SIGNS FROM I H 10, FROM U T S A BOULEVARD AS PART OF THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR IMPLEMENTED BY COUNCILMAN NURENBERG AND BONNIE CONNORS.
AND FOR CLARIFICATION, THIS IS WHAT WE RECEIVED, BUT I, I THINK, UH, CHAPTER 10 MIGHT BE THE WRONG CHAPTER.
CHAPTER 10 IS THE, UH, BUILDING CONSTRUCTION CODES THAT WE ARE ADOPTING, UH, BUILDING RELATED, UH, REALLY KIND OF WHERE THIS BOARD FALLS UNDER, UH, ADOPTION OF INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODES, RESIDENTIAL CODES, FIRE CODES.
UH, THIS IS PROBABLY GONNA FALL MORE UNDER, UH, CHAPTER 35, THE UNIVERSE, UH, UNIFORM DEVELOPMENT CODE.
UH, I'LL GO AHEAD AND PULL UP THE SUBMITTED DOCUMENTS FOR THAT.
HAS THE COUNCIL ALREADY APPROVED THIS CORRIDOR? SO THIS RULE IS BASICALLY ALREADY IN, IN EFFECT RIGHT NOW, CORRECT? UH, THAT IS CORRECT.
AND I'LL, I, THEY'RE ACTUALLY PULLING UP THE ORDINANCE FOR THAT.
SO THIS WAS THE, UH, FULL FORM, UH, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, ONCE AGAIN MENTIONING CHAPTER 10, BUT I BELIEVE 35 IS THE, THE BETTER ONE.
UH, THIS CAME IN, UM, FROM MR. LIDDEL TOY.
MY NAME'S CATHERINE HERNANDEZ.
I'M THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR IN OUR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT.
UM, JUST TO PRO KIND OF PROVIDE YOU SOME, UM, MORE CLARIFICATION.
THE ORIGINAL, UH, GATEWAY CORRIDOR ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED IN 2003, AND IN 2015, IT WENT THROUGH AN AMENDMENT PROCESS TO MODIFY SOME OF THE, UH, COLORS THAT WERE ALLOWED IN A NODE AREA ALONG I 10 AND, UH, FOUR 10, AND, NO, I ACTUALLY, I 10 AND 1604, THANK YOU,
UM, AT THE SAME TIME, AN AMENDMENT WAS ALSO MADE, UH, BY ZONING COMMISSION AND APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL TO PROHIBIT DIGITAL SIGNS ALONG THIS AREA.
UH, SO SINCE 2015, THAT REGULATION HAS BEEN IN PLACE.
AND JUST FOR THE LIDDELL, IS THIS THE ONE YOU SUBMITTED? YES.
AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL, I'LL READ A LITTLE SYNOPSIS OF IT.
SO LET THE THE MINUTES REFLECT THAT, UH, LIDDEL TOY RECUSED HIMSELF STEPPED OFF THE DAIS, AND BECAUSE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SUBMITTED, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO EXPLAIN THE WHY, UH, LIDDEL TOY, AND I'M REPRESENTING, UH, MY COMPANY US SIGNS.
AND SO, UM, I HAD A CUSTOMER THAT WANTED A DIGITAL MESSAGE CENTER ON I 10.
AND SO AT THAT TIME, WE SUBMITTED FOR A PERMIT AND WE WERE DENIED.
WELL, THIS, THEY, UH, SIGNED DIVISION, APPROVED IT, BUT PLANNING GOT A HOLD OF IT AND SAID, EVEN, AND THE SIGNED DIVISION DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT PLANNING ALREADY OR THAT, THAT THAT ORDINANCE WAS ALREADY IN PLACE.
SO I WENT TO, UH, MIKE SHANNON AT THE TIME, AND WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS AND SAID, WHEN DID THIS COME INTO, INTO PLAY? AND SINCE 2015, AND SO NONE OF THE SIGN INDUSTRY KNEW ABOUT THIS.
THE SIGN DEPARTMENT DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.
SO WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, I TALKED, I WENT INTO MIKE'S OFFICE AND I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT IT.
I SAID, WELL, THERE'S ALREADY BEEN DIGITAL SIGNS THAT HAVE BEEN PERMITTED AND INSTALLED LEGALLY, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, WE JUST CAN'T DO IT ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THAT ORDINANCE.
[01:20:01]
IS THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE AT THE TIME WHEN I TALKED TO MIKE, UM, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN COUNCILMAN NIERENBERG AND BONNIE CONNORS, UH, MADE THIS A GARDEN CORRIDOR, THERE WAS NOTHING OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS JUST RAW LAND.AND, AND NOW IT'S ALL COMMERCIAL.
YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU, YOU DRIVE UP I 10, IT'S, YOU KNOW, NOTHING BUT, UH, DEVELOPMENTS AND HOUSES AND, AND COMMERCIAL PROPERTY NOW.
SO, BEING THAT AS IT IS, UM, I PROPOSE THAT WE CHANGE THAT CODE AND PUT IT BACK INTO CHAPTER 28, WHERE YOU CAN, YOU CAN HAVE DIGITAL SIGNS FROM, UH, U T S A BOULEVARD OUT TO 1604, PAST 1604, BECAUSE IT'S, THERE'S ALREADY SIGNS THERE.
SO THIS IS WHY I'M, I'M MAKING THIS MOTION CHAIR, IF I MAY.
SO THE REGULATIONS RELATED TO THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR DISTRICT HAVE TO DO WITH IT BEING AN OVERLAY DISTRICT OVERLAY DISTRICTS ARE, UM, REGULATED IN OUR ZONING CODE CHAPTER 35, ARTICLE THREE.
SO THE CODE REGULATION ITSELF RELATED TO THE PROHIBITION OF DIGITAL SIGNS IS ACTUALLY IN CHAPTER 35 AND NOT IN 28.
AND SO, JUST TO THE ATTORNEY QUESTION, THERE IS AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION WE MAKE WOULD NOT CHANGE THE OVERLAY DISTRICT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
CAN YOU, IF, IF, SO THIS BASICALLY GOES FROM LIKE U T S A BOULEVARD ALL THE WAY OUT I 10 TO THE CITY LIMITS.
WELL, LET ME, I'M GONNA JUMP IN.
UM, SO YEAH, THIS IS A UNIQUE ONE.
IT'S A, IT'S A SIGN REGULATION THAT ACTUALLY LANDED IN, IN 35, CHAPTER 35 BECAUSE OF ZONING OVERLAY.
I THINK THE, UH, THE PROCESS WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS IS THE TECHNICAL MERIT FROM THE SIGN POINT OF VIEW, UH, ALONG WITH, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND ZONING OVERLAYS A LITTLE BIT, AND WE CAN CERTAINLY BRING SOME, UH, INFORMATION ON THOSE.
BUT THERE, THERE, THERE IS AMPLE OPPORTUNITY FOR, UH, DISCUSSION.
UH, IS THIS A GOOD IDEA? IS THIS NOT A GOOD IDEA? AND WHAT WOULD OUR RECOMMENDATION BE? AND IF WE, WE DID THIS GROUP ASKED, UH, THE CITY TO CHANGE THIS, WE WOULD THEN BRING THAT RECOMMENDATION OVER TO THE 35 GROUP RIGHT NOW, THAT'S THE PLANNING COMMISSION, TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE, PLANNING COMMISSION, ET CETERA, AND LET THEM KNOW THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED OVER HERE THAT, UH, WE WOULD NEED THEIR INPUT AS WELL.
SO IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, CODES TOUCH EACH OTHER, TOUCH DIFFERENT CHAPTERS.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A FIRE CODE ISSUE IN CHAPTER 11 THAT, THAT MAY HAVE A SIMILAR ISSUE TO CHAPTER 35 LATER.
SO THIS IS, AGAIN, ALL PART OF THE PROCESS, BUT I, I, I DON'T WANT US TO THINK THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO, TO ACTUALLY TALK ABOUT IT.
AND IS THERE TECHNICAL MERIT TO GO THAT NEXT STEP INTO CHAPTER 35? UM, SO, UH, CITY ATTORNEY, DID I SAY THAT ABOUT RIGHT? YES, SIR.
SO, SO ARE THERE A LOT OF DIGITAL SIGNS THAT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO BE PUT INTO THAT CORRIDOR? BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THE CORRIDOR EXISTED, SO HELLO THERE AGAIN.
UH, THERE'S ABOUT A, A HANDFUL, ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE SIGNS THAT WENT UP.
NO, I THINK IT WAS JUST, UH, OOPSIE JACK UP MORE HERE.
SO THOSE, THOSE SIGNS WERE JUST MISSED.
AND SO, UH, SOMEWHAT PRECEDENT.
NOBODY'S COMPLAINED ABOUT 'EM, AND THERE'S NOT BEEN ANY PUBLIC ISSUES WITH ANY OF THAT ALL THIS TIME.
AND IT WAS JUST BECAUSE THIS NEW APPLICATION ACTUALLY DID SEE THAT ORDINANCE, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT, SIR.
I MEAN, I LIVE OUTSIDE OF THAT CORRIDOR, BUT TRAVEL THAT CORRIDOR LIKE REGULARLY.
AND YOU KNOW, IF YOU WOULD TELL ME THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE GARDEN DISTRICT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY ASKED ME WHERE THE GARDEN DISTRICT IS, THAT WOULD NOT BE ONE OF THE FIRST PLACES AS THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT HAS REALLY BOND UP AND DOWN THAT, YOU KNOW, CORRIDOR WHERE IT'S NOT,
[01:25:01]
YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND GREG, OR LET, LET'S JUSTAND SO BASICALLY IT, IT, UH, IT RESTRICTS, UH, UH, IT CREATES A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE FOR ONE BUSINESS OVER ANOTHER BASED ON, UH, WHAT THE CITY HAS ALLOWED TO THIS POINT.
IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? UH, I'LL JUMP IN ON THAT.
I, I DON'T THINK THE CITY WILL COMMENT ON WHETHER, WHETHER THERE'S A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE OR DISADVANTAGE, UH, BECAUSE OF A SIGN.
BUT I MEAN, THE CITY'S NOT, THE CITY'S POSITION IS NOT TO REQUIRE, UM, THE EXISTING SIGNS TO BE REMOVED BECAUSE THEY WERE PERMITTED IN ERROR.
COULD YOU DEFINE A GARDEN CORRIDOR FOR ME, PLEASE? SO THE, THE TECHNICAL NAME OF THE CORRIDOR DISTRICT IS A GATEWAY CORRIDOR DISTRICT.
SORRY, I'M ASKING THE SAME QUESTION ABOUT SOME SORT OF GARDEN DISTRICT.
I'M NOT SURE IF MAYBE THAT'S THE NAME OF A SUBDIVISION AREA.
SO IT'S JUST, IT'S, IT'S A MISSPELLING IN THE AMENDMENT.
SO IT'S A GATEWAY CORRIDOR DISTRICT, SO NOT GARDEN.
AND SO THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR IS JUST, UM, COMING INTO THE CITY FROM A MAJOR ARTERIAL ROADWAY.
WHEN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE WAS ADOPTED, UH, GATEWAY CORRIDORS, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, ALL OF THOSE WERE OVERLAY DISTRICTS THAT WOULD, UM, HELP TO REGULATE DESIGN AT AND THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR WERE, WERE PUT IN PLACE.
UM, AND THERE'S MORE THAN JUST, UH, THIS ONE, THERE'S SEVERAL OTHER GATEWAY CORRIDORS ALONG 1 51.
UM, THERE'S BULL VERDE, THAT'S A PRESERVATION OVERLAY DISTRICT.
IT'S ALL ABOUT LEADING INTO THE CITY DEFINING, UM, A DESIGN THAT SHOWS YOU THIS IS THE CONSISTENT COLOR, THESE ARE THE CONSISTENT STANDARDS, UM, AS YOU'RE DRIVING INTO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, ALSO, ONE OF THE FEATURES OR ONE OF THE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR HAS, IT HAS TO DO WITH LIKE BUILDING MATERIALS.
UM, SO THOSE ARE THE, THOSE ARE, AS, AS YOU KNOW, THE STATE LAW, UH, WAS PASSED THIS PAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION THAT SAYS WE CAN'T REGULATE BUILDING MATERIALS.
SO WE CAN DO PAINT COLORS, WE CAN DO BUILDING MATERIALS FOR NEW CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICTS.
SINCE THESE ARE, UM, GRANDFATHERED IN PLACE, UM, THEY ARE, WE ARE ALLOWED TO RESTRICT BUILDING MATERIALS.
BUT MOVING FORWARD, IF YOU MAKE ANY CHANGES TO AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, IT THEN, UH, PUTS INTO JEOPARDY OUR ABILITY TO REGULATE BUILDING MATERIALS.
WELL BUILD ANY ORDINANCE THAT HAS BUILDING MATERIALS REGULATED IN OVERLAY DISTRICTS, WHATEVER IS AT THIS POINT, MOOT, CORRECT? NO, NOT IF THEY WERE ADOPTED PRIOR TO THE STATE LAW.
SO HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE EXAMINED.
OUR NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, UH, THAT WERE ADOPTED PRIOR TO THAT, UH, REGULATION ARE EXEMPT.
ANYTHING MOVING FORWARD, PAST THAT DATE IS NO LONGER ALLOWED TO REGULATE BUILDING MATERIALS.
AND SO IF THEY MADE ANY CHANGES TO THIS, IT DITCHES EVERYTHING? NO, NOT EVERYTHING.
JUST ANYTHING THAT THE STATE HAS CHANGED.
CAN YOU GO OVER, UH, GO TO BACK TO THE ONE WHERE IT HAD THE OVERLAY THAT HAD THE, THE SIGN PART OF IT.
NOW WHAT, WHAT THE ACTUAL RULES ARE FOR THE SIGNS? THERE WAS LIKE A TAPE.
BUT I BELIEVE THIS IS THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE.
SO I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO FIND THE AMENDMENT THAT WENT, THERE'S AN AMENDMENT THAT SPECIFICALLY PULLED THAT AND BROUGHT IN THE DIGITAL REQUIREMENT THAT NO LONGER, THAT WAS A 2015 AMENDMENT.
IT WOULD BE POSTED ON THE ORDINANCES.
SO YOU'D HAVE TO PROBABLY SEARCH IT TO THE CITY CLERK'S WEBSITE.
SO DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHY THEY DID THE DIGITAL? YES,
THERE ARE SOME ORGANIZATIONS THAT, UM, AREN'T PARTICULARLY FANS OF DIGITAL SIGNS.
AND, UM, SO DURING THE AMENDMENT
[01:30:01]
PROCESS, THE, UM, DISCUSSION HAPPENED BETWEEN THE, THESE ORGANIZATIONS AND THE ZONING COMMISSIONER AND THE COUNCIL OFFICE.AND SO WHEN IT WENT TO ZONING, COMMISSION AND AMENDMENT WAS MADE AT THE PODIUM TO ADD THE PROHIBITION, THEN IT WENT TO CITY COUNCIL AND IT WAS APPROVED.
AND MAYBE HE CAN PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION.
NO, I'D LIKE TO, WELL, SEE, THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE WHOLE ISSUE BECAUSE THE SIGN INDUSTRY WAS NOT EVEN IN INFORMED WHAT WAS GOING ON.
SO WE WOULD'VE, IF WE WOULD'VE HAD SOME INPUT ON IT, WE BEEN ABLE TO STOP THIS.
SO WE MET WITH COUNCILMAN, UH, PEZ, IS THAT CORRECT? AND HE WAS TOTALLY FOR LIKE, YOU KNOW, IMPLEMENTING, UH, MESSAGE CENTERS OUT ON I 10.
HE SAID, THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS RULE DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
SO JUST FOR, FOR THE COMMITTEE'S, UH, INFORMATION, BUT WE NE WE AS A SIGN INDUSTRY DIDN'T, WEREN'T, UH, NOTIFIED OF THIS.
SO IT KIND OF LIKE PUSHED UNDERNEATH THE RUG WITHOUT ANY INPUT.
SO WAS PERHAPS SOME OF THAT DISCUSSION, IF YOU MAY, IF YOU WERE THERE, WAS THAT, DID IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE NIGHT SKY LIGHTING ORDINANCE BECAUSE OF CAMP BULLIS? I, I WOULDN'T WANNA COMMENT ON AS TO WHETHER ONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE THE CONTEXT.
I JUST KNOW THAT THESE ORGANIZATIONS AREN'T, DO NOT LIKE DIGITAL SIGNS.
THEY DON'T LIKE THAT TYPE OF SIGNAGE ALONG CORRIDORS.
SO AGAIN, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THEM NOT LIKING THESE KIND OF SIGNS IN THAT CORRIDOR ON OUR ENTRANCE OVER SINCE 2015 AND FIVE HAVE BEEN PUT UP AND HAVING ZERO ISSUES OR PROBLEMS, QUESTIONS, COMPLAINTS, ET CETERA.
NOT ON THOSE SIDE, NOT ON THOSE SIDES IN PARTICULAR.
THANK YOU, MR. MR. CHAIRMAN? YES.
WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK, UM, I KNOW WE, WE WOULD LOVE, AGAIN TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, UM, WHAT YOU ALL WOULD, WOULD LIKE US TO DO MOVING FORWARD ON THIS.
UH, BUT COULD WE ASK THE APPLICANT, UM, FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE PROPOSAL, IS IT TO ELIMINATE THE RESTRICTION COMPLETELY AND THEREFORE ALLOW ON-PREMISE DIGITAL SIGNS LIKE WE WOULD ELSEWHERE IN THE CITY? OR WAS THERE A MODIFIED PROPOSAL SO THAT DIGITAL ON-PREMISE SIGNS IN THIS AREA HAD SOME ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF SPACING, MOVEMENT, BRIGHTNESS, ET CETERA? UH, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THAT CONVERSATION, BUT I THOUGHT THERE WAS.
SO IF YOU COULD JUST CLARIFY THAT AND THEN WE COULD CERTAINLY START MOVING FORWARD WITH WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE FOR LANGUAGE.
AND I, I THINK WE'RE GONNA GET YOU SOME HOMEWORK INFORMATION FROM 2015.
SO BASICALLY, YEAH, IF, IF THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO ALLOW ON-PREMISE DIGITAL MESSAGE CENTERS ON I 10.
BUT IF, IF THE COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A CERTAIN REGULATIONS LIKE, UH, HOLD TIME FOR MESSAGES, UM, AND I'M SURE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DO THE BRIGHTNESS, UH, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE TO BE IN COMPLIANT WITH, WITH THE CITY CODE.
UM, AND ALSO WITH THE, WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE TICKER TAPE, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING WITHIN THAT DIGITAL MESSAGE CENTER, UH, CODE THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY.
OR WE COULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE STRINGENT CODES, UM, THAT MAYBE WE COULD WORK WITH WITH THE CITY.
BUT AGAIN, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THEY HAVEN'T HAD ANY ISSUES WITH ANY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, UH, THE SIGNS THAT ARE OUT THERE NOW, I DON'T SEE WHY THERE SHOULD BE ANY.
SO IF THE COMMITTEE HAS NO PROBLEM, I'M GONNA SEND THIS BACK TO STAFF TO JUST DO SOME MORE RESEARCH, SEE WHAT'S, WHERE THE SIGN, IF YOU CAN LOCATE FOR THE NEXT ONE, WHERE THE SIGNS THAT WENT UP ARE ALSO GET SOME PICTURES OF WHAT THE STREET FRONTAGE LOOKS LIKE NOW.
UH, AND THEN, UH, SINCE THIS IS IN DISTRICT EIGHT, I PRESUME STILL AT LEAST FOR A LITTLE BIT LONGER UNTIL REDISTRICTING, AND IT MAY STILL IS JUST, YOU KNOW, TO VERIFY WITH THE COUNCILMAN'S OFFICE THAT YOU KNOW, WHAT HIS POSITION GENERALLY WOULD BE ON THAT AND JUST GET BACK WITH US.
YEAH, ANDREW PEREZ, 2 43 WARD, I'D LIKE THE COMMITTEE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS CORRIDORS, THERE ARE OTHER CORRIDORS THAT DO ALLOW GENERAL CORRIDORS OR GATEWAY CORRIDOR ORDERS THAT DO ALLOW DIGITAL SCIENCE HAVE BEEN STILL DO.
SO ALLOWING THIS TO DO, ALTHOUGH WE STILL HAVE TO GO TO SHOP AT 35 AND WE STILL HAVE TO GO TO
[01:35:01]
CITY COUNCIL.THIS IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN ANY GATEWAY CORRIDOR THAT I'M AWARE OF.
SO IT WOULD JUST BE IN CONTINUANCE WITH WHAT WE GOT GOING ON ALREADY.
SO MAYBE ALSO SOME, SOME, SO THAT WE HAVE AMMUNITION, A COMPARISON OF THE OTHER GATEWAY CARE CORRIDORS AND WHAT THEY ALLOW.
AND BECAUSE, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I WILL TELL YOU MORE AND MORE AND MORE COMPANIES ARE GOING TO THE DIGITAL SIGN, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO PUT UP.
SO YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, NOT, IT'S NOT GONNA BE DONE BY EVERYBODY OR ALL OVER.
'CAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FOUR OR $5,000 AND 40 OR $50,000.
AND, BUT YOU KNOW, THE MESSAGING, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S A WAY TO DO ADVERTISING ON YOUR OWN PREMISE.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD ASK IS WHAT EFFECT DOES THE, YOU KNOW, THE CAMP BULLS AND THE OTHER MILITARY OVERLAY DARKNESS THINGS HAVE ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE? BECAUSE IT MAY BE THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, DO THAT.
BUT AGAIN, THE LIGHTING OVERLAY DISTRICT FOR CAMP BULLIS MAY NOT ALLOW IT, PERIOD, BECAUSE IT'S WITHIN THAT, YOU KNOW, DARKNESS THING.
SO I JUST THINK, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHERE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SHOWING A MAP OF WHERE THAT OVERLAY DISTRICT FOR LIGHTING FOR CAMP BULLIS IS, AS WELL AS THE COMPARISON, I THINK WE WOULD BE, UH, BETTER OFF BEFORE WE WEIGH IN ON THAT ISSUE, IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT.
WELL, BEFORE WE END, ANYBODY FROM THE, THE GALLERY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT 'CAUSE I WANT TO YES, IT WAS ALREADY NAME ADDRESS.
UH, CHRISTY BARRON, UH, FAIR OAKS RANCH.
SO NOT IN SAN ANTONIO, JUST SOMETHING, UM, TO POINT OUT IF THIS TEXAS SIGN ASSOCIATION DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT THAT ORDINANCE WAS GOING TO, HAS SOMETHING BEEN LIKE, BEEN PUT INTO, HAS SOMETHING BEEN PUT INTO PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN? AND THAT THE CORRECT INDUSTRIES THAT WOULD NEED TO HAVE INPUT ON THIS TYPE OF REGULATION GOING INTO PLACE ACTUALLY ARE NOTIFIED AHEAD OF TIME SO THAT WE CAN HAVE INPUT ON IT.
'CAUSE I WILL SAY LIKE WHEN THIS COUNCIL WENT INTO PLACE, PLACE, I GET NOTIFICATIONS JUST 'CAUSE I SIGNED UP FOR THEM, BUT I'M A LICENSED SIGN HOLDER, COMMERCIAL AND BILLBOARD, AND THERE WAS NO NOTIFICATION THAT THIS REGULATION WAS GOING ON.
SO I WOULD THINK THAT MAYBE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL THAT AT LEAST SIGN HOLDER, LIKE LICENSE HOLDERS KNOW THAT THESE KIND OF COMMITTEES ARE HAPPENING BECAUSE WE, THERE WAS NO NOTIFICATION OTHER THAN OUR OWN RESEARCH IN A SENSE.
SO IS THERE SOMETHING GOING ON? ARE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR, THIS PART, THIS COMMITTEE AS WELL.
BUT ALSO, LIKE LIDDELL SAID THAT T S A DID NOT KNOW RIGHT.
SO, OR ELSE THEY WOULD'VE DEFINITELY HAD INPUT ON THAT HAPPENING.
SO TO PREVENT THIS TYPE OF SITUATION FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE, SOME TYPE OF NOTIFICATION.
WELL HERE, I, I WON'T WANT TO COME TO THE DEFENSE BECAUSE OUT OF ALL THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT IS PROBABLY THE BEST AT NOTIFYING THE STAKEHOLDERS WHEN ISSUES ARE COMING UP.
SO, YOU KNOW, BUT ON THE OVERLAY DISTRICTS IT'S HARDER.
WELL, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YES, WE DO, WE HAVE A COMMUNITY INPUT PROCESS.
WHEN WE, WHEN WE, THESE ARE STAFF INITIATED TYPE AMENDMENTS, WE GO THROUGH THAT TO THAT PROCESS IN ORDER TO GET THAT INPUT.
THIS WAS NOT A A, A STAFF AMENDMENT THAT WAS MADE.
THIS WAS, UH, SOMETHING THAT CITY COUNCIL DID.
UM, SO, UM, THEY, WHEN THEY ADOPTED IT, WHEN THEY ADOPTED THE ORDINANCE THERE, THERE WAS NO, AT THAT TIME, THE COUNCIL, MAYOR AND COUNCIL DECIDED NOT TO HAVE A PUBLIC MEETING ON IT.
SO IT WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE THE ABILITY AND, AND AUTHORITY TO DO WHEN THEY'RE CONSIDERING AN ORDINANCE.
UM, AND, BUT YES, WE DO, WE DO OUR DUE DILIGENCE WHENEVER WE DO CODE AMENDMENTS, CODE UPDATES, WE HAVE A LOT OF, UM, INPUT SESSIONS AND, AND SO WE DO OUR BEST IF, IF THINGS COME UP AT THE LAST SECOND.
NOW, UH, WE TRY TO GO AHEAD AND, AND TELL OUR STAKEHOLDERS WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND, AND SO BASICALLY, UH, SOME COUNCILMAN MADE A MOTION, COUNCILPERSON MADE A MOTION, SOMEONE SECONDED AND THEY VOTED TO AMEND WHAT WAS COMING FORWARD TO THEM WITH THIS REQUIREMENT.
WELL, AGAIN, LEMME JUMP IN A LITTLE BIT.
[01:40:01]
DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.SO, I MEAN, LOOK, ONE OF OUR MAIN, UM, UH, IDEAS HERE AT, AT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IS TO PARTNER WITH ALL OF OUR STAKEHOLDERS.
WE DON'T WANT ANY SURPRISES, EVEN IF IT'S A TOUGH CONVERSATION.
UH, WE WANT, AS, AS MANY PEOPLE AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON THROUGH THESE PROCESSES AS WE CAN.
AND, UH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR THE COMPLIMENT OF OUR DEPARTMENT, BUT THAT IS A, THAT IS A TRUE NATURE OF HOW WE DO BUSINESS.
WERE WE PERFECT AT IT? LOOKING BACK, BEING THE MONDAY MORNING QUARTERBACK THAT WE ARE, UH, WAS THERE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY BETWEEN ZONING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL FOR SOMEONE, EVEN A CITY STAFF AT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES TO HAVE WAIVED THE FLAG, UH, AND, AND, AND DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
UM, SO WE'RE ALWAYS LEARNING AND, UH, BUT, BUT AGAIN, OUR, OUR GOAL IS TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS WELL BEFORE ANY RULES ARE CHANGED, UH, WITH EVERYBODY THAT COULD BE AFFECTED.
UH, CERTAINLY WE NEED YOUR HELP, RIGHT? ALL THESE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE HERE TODAY, UH, IF WE MISS ANYBODY, LET US KNOW.
BUT, UM, SO I DON'T WANNA PUT IT ALL THAT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THERE WASN'T AN OPPORTUNITY BACK THEN.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE LEARNED FROM SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AS WELL.
BUT, UH, AND I THINK EVEN OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH, UH, AND HONESTLY
UH, WE COMMUNICATE A LOT MORE OFTEN, UH, AND WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE WITH EACH OTHER ON EVERY SINGLE THING.
UH, BUT, UH, JUST STAYING UP TO UP TO DATE WITH WHAT'S GOING ON.
UH, SO THERE ARE NO SURPRISES.
SO THAT'S OUR, THAT'S, THAT'S OUR, HOW WE DO IT NOW.
UM, AND UH, I JUST WANTED TO, I DIDN'T WANT TO THROW EVERYTHING ON A COUNCILMAN.
I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT COUNCILMAN IT WAS, BUT NO, THAT'S HOW WE WOULD DO IT TODAY.
BUT WHAT THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS SOMETIMES EVEN THE BEST LAID PLANS, YOU KNOW, OR IT GOES TO A COUNCIL COMMITTEE AND THEY ADD SOMETHING IN THE PROCESS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IS PROBABLY THE MOST TRANSPARENT GROUP WITHIN THE CITY BODY, AND THEY SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR THAT.
AND PART OF WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION TODAY IS TO GIVE ANOTHER, UH, CHANCE TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, LIDDELL.
UH, AND I, YEAH, AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, MIKE.
THE, UH, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS GREAT TO WORK WITH.
UM, CLARIFICATION, I WAS ON THE DARK SKIES COMMITTEE WHEN, WHEN, UH, ROD WAS STILL AROUND AND HE PUT ME ON AS, AS A SIGNED LIAISON.
AND NOTHING WAS TALKED ABOUT FOR, UM, WELL IN THE SIGNED PART OF IT OUT IN THAT AREA FOR BOLUS.
SO WE, WE, WE, WE DISCUSSED IT, BUT THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY AT THAT TIME.
I DON'T THINK ANYTHING WAS PUT FORTH WITH COUNSEL.
SO, YEAH, SO JUST FOR CLARIFICATION AND, AND SO WE WILL POSTPONE THE DISCUSSION.
WE'LL HAVE A COUPLE OF MORE PEOPLE THAT AREN'T HERE AT THIS MEETING THAT WILL BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I THINK GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, THE GATEWAY DIGITAL ADVERTISING DOESN'T MAKE IT LOOK ANY BETTER OR WORSE OR, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW.
NUMBER EIGHT, UH, THANK YOU CHAIR.
THIS IS, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
SO WE'LL CONTINUE WITH, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, AND WE'LL PROBABLY TALK ABOUT EIGHT AND NINE, UH, TOGETHER.
UH, SO I'LL, I'LL GO FOR BOTH WHAT THOSE ARE.
UH, THESE ARE MORE CLERICAL OF, UH, THESE ARE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM CSA ONE INTERNAL REQUEST TO REVISE THE DEFINITION OF AREA TO SIGN FACE AREA AND SECTION 28 DASH SIX DEFINITIONS.
AND ALSO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER NINE, CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM COSSA TWO INTERNAL REQUEST TO ADD TOTAL SIGN TO THE AREA COMPUTATION DEFINITION AND SECTION 28 DASH FOUR FIVE SIGN HEIGHT AND AREA CODE SECTION.
UH, AND REALLY WHAT THIS KIND OF CAME FROM WAS, UH, CONFLICTING DEFINITIONS WITHIN THE, THE CHAPTER 28.
SO WE WANTED TO MAKE A COUPLE, YOU KNOW, REALLY IT'S, IT'S ADDING THOSE TWO TERMS, UH, TO IT.
SO I'M GONNA PULL UP BOTH THOSE CODE SECTIONS REAL QUICK.
[01:45:01]
SO AGENDA NUMBER, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, UH, WHAT WE WANNA DO HERE, THIS REALLY WASN'T THE OFFENDING SECTION, BUT WE'RE DEFINING AREA, UM, IT'S A KIND OF A COMMON TERM.WE KINDA LOOKED AT IT AND WE SAID WE PROBABLY SHOULD BETTER, YOU KNOW, GIVE THAT A BETTER NAME SO THAT ANYTIME WE USE AREA WITHIN THE CHAPTER 28, IT DOES NOT GET, GET CONFUSED AWAY FROM A STANDARD AREA TIME, YOU KNOW, HEIGHT, TIMES WIDTH OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OF, OF A PRETTY WELL DEFINED TWO-DIMENSIONAL OBJECT.
UH, SO WHAT WE WANNA DO IS JUST INSTEAD OF DEFINING AREA TO BE MEANS THE ENTIRE ADVERTISING AREA WITHIN THE SIGN, INCLUDING ANY FRAMING, TRIM OR MOLDING AND THE SUPPORTING STRUCTURE TO BE SIGN FACE AREA.
SO WHAT WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO DEFINE IS JUST WHAT DO WE, UH, SO ANYTIME WE USE THAT, IT DOESN'T GET CONFUSED WITH JUST THE GENERAL TERM AREA.
BASICALLY ALL YOU WOULD BE DOING IS ADDING TWO OR THREE WORDS IN FRONT OF THE WORD AREA.
WE WOULD ADD SIGN FACE, AND UH, AND WE WOULD LEAVE THE DEFINITION THE SAME AND WE WOULD, UH, MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S CORRECTED, UH, THROUGHOUT THE CHAPTER.
BUT ANYTIME WE'RE TRYING TO DEFINE AREA, WE JUST WANNA BETTER DEFINE THAT.
ANY QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS BY THE COMMITTEE? SO IS THIS, UH, LIDDEL TOY? IS THIS, YOU'VE GOT, UH, ANY FRAMING, TRIM OR MOLDING AND THE SUPPORTING STRUCTURE, BUT YOU'RE NOT COUNTING THAT AS AS THE SIGN FACE? YEAH.
JUST IT SAYS, I BELIEVE IT EXCLUDES ANY FRAMING, TRIM OR MOLDING.
ANYBODY FROM THE AUDIENCE? QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, STAFF? EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT? OKAY.
SO WE GOT ONE THING AND JUST SO THAT IT'S ON THE RECORD, THIS IS WHERE IT WOULD LOOK, IT WOULD BE SIGN FACE AREA MEANS THE ENTIRE ADVERTISING AREA OR SIGN FACE WITHIN THE EXISTING THANK YOU.
AND WHERE IN THE TOTAL AREA YOU MIGHT AS WELL.
WELL, LET ME, UH, GO TO, SO THIS IS THE, UH, SO THIS IS MORE OF A KIND OF A REDEFINITION, AND THIS IS WHERE WE RAN INTO, THIS IS WHERE IT CAN CAME UP IS, UM, AREA COMPUTATION, UM, OF A DIFFERENT SECTION OF DEFINING THE SIGN HEIGHT AND AREA OF A CODE.
UH, SO THIS IS BUILT INTO THE ACTUAL CHAPTER ITSELF AND DEF UH, REQUIREMENTS.
UH, SO WE HAD AN ISSUE WHERE SOMEBODY WAS TRYING TO SAY AREA COMPUTATION IS DIFFERENT HERE, A DEFINITION THAN WHAT AREA WAS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO CLARIFY BOTH OF THOSE.
AND THEN, JEREMY, I AM ASSUMING YOU'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE REST OF THE CHAPTER 28 AND EVERYWHERE IT HAS THE WORD AREA.
THAT IS, YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE THE NAME WITHIN CHAPTER 28 TO REFLECT THE NEW NAME IF IT'S WARRANTED, CORRECT? WELL, THERE'S TIMES IT'S WARRANTED.
WE USE AREA NO, NO, NO, NO, I KNOW.
BUT WHERE IT'S A DEFINED TERM WHERE YOU'RE REFERRING TO SIGN FACE AREA AND IT SAYS AREA, YOU'LL GO CHANGE THAT ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CODE.
UH, SO THIS ONE, ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE AREA COMPUTATION.
WE'RE REALLY JUST WANNA SAY TOTAL SIGN AREA COMPUTATION.
UH, JUST GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARIFICATION AND THEN ALSO ADD WITHIN THE DEFINITION TOTAL SIGN AREA INSTEAD OF ACTUAL AREA.
SO IT'S THE ACTUAL TOTAL SIGN AREA.
SO WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO? I'M GONNA LET THE EXPERT DISCUSS THAT.
SO WHEN WE LOOK AT, UH, AT A SIGN APPLICATION AND, UH, AND WE DO OUR CALCULATIONS, WE, THE TERM USED BEFORE WAS THE VO, THE VISUAL OPENING.
THAT'S WHAT WAS USED TO MEASURE THE SIGN FACE AREA AT THE TIME.
SO WHEN WE'RE COMP ON THE AREA COMPUTATION, NOW YOU HAVE SIGNS THAT THEY HAVE LIKE A, SOMETHING STICKING OUT ON ONE SIDE, LIKE THE M LIKE THE MCDONALD'S, THAT'S THE, THE FAMOUS, THE FAMOUS EXAMPLE THAT WE HAVE.
SO WE TAKE THE MEASUREMENTS AND DO THE, THE GEOMETRIC SHAPER ON IT, AND THAT GETS INTO THE TOTAL AREA.
WE DO NOT COUNT THE TRIM OR ANYTHING ELSE OR CLADDING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
BUT WHAT, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SIGN FACE AREA AND TOTAL SIGN AREA? SO THE, IS, I ASSUME IT'S THE ADDING ALL OF THE SIGN FACES UP WOULD BE THE TOTAL SIGN AREA COMPUTATION?
[01:50:01]
CORRECT.EXCLUDING TRIM OR ANYTHING? YEAH.
ANY QUESTIONS? NO, YOU'RE GOOD WITH IT? OKAY.
UH, SO THE, SO THAT WAS EIGHT AND NINE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UM, SO ITEM NUMBER 10, UH, ONCE AGAIN INTERNAL CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM COSSA THREE INTERNAL REQUEST TO ADD AN ITEM FIVE TWO SECTION 28 DASH TWO SIX REVOCATION AND SUSPENSION TO CON TO BE CONSISTENT WITH CHAPTER 10, SECTION ONE 30.
UH, SO WHILE THIS IS PULLING UP, SO, UH, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, SO CHAPTER 28, WE HAVE, UH, DISCUSSIONS ABOUT BEING LICENSED, UH, TO BE A BILLBOARD OR SIGN OPERATOR INSTALLER, BUT IS ALSO KIND OF GOVERNED UNDER CHAPTER 10.
WE HAVE MUCH MORE DETAIL ABOUT OTHER TYPES OF REGISTRATIONS WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND WHAT THAT REGISTRATION PROCESS IS, AND THEN ALSO WHAT THE CITY HAS IN A WAY OF KIND OF REGULATING AND CONTROLLING, UH, WHICH ALSO MEANS THAT WE COULD REVOKE AND SUSPEND THOSE REGISTRATIONS.
SO CHAPTER 10 HAS ITEM NUMBER FIVE ALREADY THERE, AND I'LL, I'LL PULL UP WHAT, HOW'S THAT READS.
SO ALL THIS KIND OF, UM, IS KIND OF, IT'S A GROUNDS FOR AN APPEAL OR, UH, GROUNDS FOR HAVING AN ISSUE.
AND WE DEFINE FIVE DIFFERENT ONES IN CHAPTER 10.
SO WE REALLY JUST WANT TO HAVE THIS READ THE EXACT SAME BETWEEN THE TWO.
'CAUSE THEY ARE, THEY'RE KIND OF A MIRROR OF EACH OTHER SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SECTIONS.
IS IT POSSIBLE JUST TO MAKE A REFERENCE IN 28, REFERRING BACK TO REGISTRATION REVOCATION WILL BE FOLLOWED BY THE RULES IN ESTABLISHED IN CHAPTER 10 WITHOUT HAVING TO SAY 'EM ALL OVER AGAIN? I MEAN, THAT'S AN OPTION.
UH, THE ONLY THING WE WOULD SAY, I MEAN, WE AGREE WITH BREVITY AND ANYTIME WE CAN REDUCE THE SIZE OF, OF THE CODES, WE, WE AGREE WITH THAT.
UH, WHAT WE WANT TO DO TO MAKE SURE THIS IS, I MEAN, FOR THE MOST PART, UH, THE INDUSTRY PROBABLY ONLY LOOKS AT CHAPTER 28, MAY NOT BE TOO MUCH AWARE OF, OF CHAPTER 10.
SO THERE ARE TIMES THAT WE DO WANT TO KIND OF DUPLICATE THAT SO THEY'RE FULLY AWARE.
UH, BUT YOU KNOW, IF, YOU KNOW, IF INDUSTRY'S OKAY WITH IT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT AGAINST MAKING, YOU KNOW, ANY OF THESE MUNI MUNI CODES A LITTLE BIT SMALLER.
SO I IS THERE, I'D LIKE TO JUST PULL THE, UH, SIGN PEOPLE IN THE ROOM BECAUSE IT REALLY APPLIES TO YOU IF IT, IF, IF THE LICENSING AND REGULATION AND REVOCATION AND SUSPENSION WERE ALL CONTAINED WITHIN CHAPTER 10, WHICH IS WHERE ALL THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, LICENSES AND RULES AND HOW THIS COMMITTEE OPERATES WERE, AND THERE WAS JUST THAT REFERENCE TO CHAPTER 10.
ARE Y'ALL OKAY WITH THAT? I THINK SO, YEAH.
BECAUSE THE, THE LICENSED CONTRACTOR'S NOT GONNA BE WORRIED ABOUT GETTING THEIR LICENSE TAKEN AWAY.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE READING THIS SO
AND THAT WOULD ALSO APPLY TO PEOPLE LIKE THAT.
DO SO ANY THOUGHTS? I MEAN, IT WOULD BE THE SAME RULES.
IT'S JUST, IT MEANS AS THEY CHANGE ONE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH FIVE DIFFERENT CODES TO CHANGE ALL OF THEM.
ANYBODY ELSE IN THE SIGN INDUSTRY HAVE LIDDELL SIR? NO PROBLEM.
SO I THINK THE ANSWER IS WE WOULD LIKE THEM THE SAME AND WE WOULD LIKE THEM ALL IN ONE PLACE IF THERE'S NOT SOMETHING DIFFERENT AS YOU GO THROUGH IT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S JUST EASIER TO HAVE IT ALL.
HERE'S WHERE YOU GET YOUR PERMIT, HERE'S HOW THIS BOARD OPERATES.
IS THAT COMPRESSED? EVERYBODY ELSE? OKAY.
BUT THOSE PASSING IS CREDIT CARD OUT NOW.
SO CHAIR, JUST SO, UH, FOR GOOD CLARIFICATION.
SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS ARTICLE THREE, DIVISION ONE OF, UH, CHAPTER 28.
THAT WOULD BE IN GENERAL, THIS IS ALL FALLS UNDER DIVISION ONE LICENSING AND INSURANCE.
WHAT STAFF WILL DO IS WE'LL REVIEW ALL OF THESE AND IF WE DON'T SEE ANY ISSUES WITH PULLING THIS, THAT SECTION WOULD REALLY JUST BECOME, PLEASE REFERENCE CHAPTER 10, SECTION ONE 30.
UM, AND WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF PLAYING AROUND WITH CHAPTER 10 A LITTLE BIT UNDER THE, THE OTHER COMMITTEE.
SO THAT MIGHT CHANGE A LITTLE BIT.
[01:55:01]
TECHNICAL INFORMATION, IT'S MORE JUST CLERICAL AND UH, MAKING SURE WHERE, WHERE IT FALLS, UH, 'CAUSE WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF CHAPTER 10 AS WELL BY NOT REPEATING A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUFF.BUT IF THAT'S, IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT, THEN THAT WOULD BE APPROACH.
IF WE RUN INTO ANY ISSUES, WE'LL BRING THAT BACK TO THE, ANY COMMENT ON THAT? I, I THINK, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA.
WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE SPECIFICALLY ON THE REVOCATION ONE THAT WE HAD PROPOSED.
WE'LL BRING BACK SOME LANGUAGE ABOUT THAT.
AND I THINK TO JEREMY'S POINT, IF WE SEE ANYTHING ELSE, WELL, WE CAN CREATE SOME BREVITY BUT NOT ANY CONFUSION.
WE'LL PRESENT THAT AS WELL, UH, FOR YOUR FINAL CONSIDERATION.
SO IN CHAPTER 28, ALL THE LICENSING AND ALL THAT STUFF, IF THAT CAN BE MOVED TO ONE PLACE IN CHAPTER 10, I THINK YOU HAVE CONSENSUS HERE THAT THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA, PROVIDED IT DOESN'T CREATE ANY UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.
THAT'S THE LAST, UH, LAST AGENDA ITEM.
WE DO HAVE A FEW, UH, DIRECTOR REPORT ITEMS THAT WE WANT.
YEAH, LET'S GET A MOTION TO APPROVE THE TWO THAT WE, SO, UH, IT'S REALLY EIGHT AND NINE.
SO CAN WE GET LIKE A MOTION TO APPROVE EIGHT AND NINE AND THE ONLY TWO THAT WE'VE GOT DONE TODAY? YEAH, THREE UNPREDICTABLE MOTION.
THE, THE REALLY ONLY THING WE DECIDED AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS COMING BACK IS EIGHT AND NINE.
SO JACK UP MORE, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE AMENDMENTS OF, UH, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT AND NINE.
IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND JOE.
UH, ANY COMMENTS? ALL IN FAVOR? AND, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, THE APPOINTEES, THE FOUR APPOINTEES SHOULD NOT VOTE, BUT THERE IS CONSENSUS AMONG EVERYBODY THAT, THAT IT'S THE RIGHT COURSE.
SO IF WE CAN TAKE AN OFFICIAL VOTE.
THIS IS, I MEAN, THOMAS' DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, JUST TO CLARIFY.
SO ITEMS FOUR THROUGH 10 MINUS EIGHT AND NINE, THOSE ITEMS WILL BE TABLED AND WILL BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE AT FURTHER DATE? THAT IS CORRECT.
I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT ON RECORD.
UM, ONCE AGAIN, WE KIND OF HAVE THIS OPEN.
I KNOW THE CHAIR HAS BEEN VERY OPEN, UH, FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS.
UH, BEFORE WE MOVE INTO THE DIRECTOR REPORT, WANTED TO SEE IF ANYBODY FROM THE GALLERY AS WE ARE PUTTING IT, UH, AS ANY COMMENTS AT THIS TIME.
CAN I, UH, STEPH, STEPH SECONDS.
THANK YOU, MARK
SO, UM, UNDER THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT AT THE MEETING, UH, FROM TWO WEEKS AGO, WE DID HAVE SOMEBODY, UH, A CITIZEN COME AND TALK TO US ABOUT A CONCERN WITH SOME SIGNAGE, UH, ASKED THE STAFF TO DO SOME RESEARCH.
UH, SO WHAT THAT WAS IS IT WAS SPECIFIC TO A, UH, SIGN FOUND AT WOODLAWN LAKE PARK AND CONCERNS WITH SOME OFFSITE PROMISING, UH, ADVERTISEMENTS ON THAT AND CONTENT AND ALSO BROUGHT UP, UH, CONCERNS.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHERE DOES THE, UH, FUNDS FOR THAT GO? SO WE'RE NOT GONNA GO INTO A LOT OF DETAIL REALLY.
WE JUST DID SOME BRIEF RESEARCH ON, YOU KNOW, WHERE THAT'S AT.
UH, I WANNA PRESENT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THAT WITH US.
WE'RE HAPPY TO GO INTO MORE DETAIL AFTER THE MEETING.
UH, BUT YOU KNOW, WE WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE DID FIND THAT.
SO JUST AS A POINT OF REFERENCE, I KNOW, UH, CHAIR ROSS HAD KIND OF ASKED FOR WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE AND WHAT IS IT? UH, SO THESE ARE TECHNICALLY KIND OF WAYFINDING, UH, KIOSKS THAT ARE FOUND THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
AND WHENEVER SOMEBODY, A CITIZEN A A, UM, VISITOR, ANYBODY THAT COMES UP TO THEM, THEY CAN TOUCH IT, TOUCH SCREEN, GET SOME INFORMATION, MOVE THROUGH IT.
SO WHEN IT'S BEING USED, IT'S MORE OF A WAYFINDING, INFORMATIONAL, UH, KIOSK FOR ANYBODY.
BUT WHEN IT'S NOT BEING USED, OF COURSE, IT THEN MOVES TO KIND OF A, A FLASHING, UH, OFF-PREMISE ADVERTISEMENT.
SO WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? WHERE DOES THE ORDINANCE AND ALL THAT, UH, WHERE DOES IT FALL UNDER CHAPTER 28? THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH THAT WE DID.
SO THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO ORDINANCES THAT WERE APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, UH, FOR THIS.
[02:00:01]
2017.IT'S ACTUALLY AN ORDINANCE FROM A, UH, REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL.
THEY SENT OUT, UH, SOMETHING FOR, UH, MANY INDUSTRY INDIVIDUALS TO, UM, SUBMIT A CONTRACT AND, AND FALL UNDER.
SO THIS IS, UH, AUTHOR AUTHORIZED AND EXECUTION OF PROFESSIONAL SERVICES.
IT'S WITH, UH, IKE SMART CITY L L C TO INSTALL, OPERATE AND MAINTAIN 25 DIGITAL COMMUNITY KIOSKS.
SO A MAXIMUM OF 25 KIOSKS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
UH, THAT R F P DID HAVE SOME RECOMMENDED LOCATIONS FOR THAT.
UM, AND THEY ALSO WENT INTO THE DETAILS, UH, THROUGH THAT ORDINANCE AND THE R F P ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW THOSE FUNDS COULD BE ALLOCATED AND IT'S SPECIFIED IN THAT, UH, WHICH DEPARTMENTS CAN, YOU KNOW, ALLOCATE THAT.
AND IT'S ULTIMATELY HELD BY THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
AND THEN THERE ARE, UM, SOME VERBIAGE IN THAT ORDINANCE IN THE R F P TALKING ABOUT OVERSIGHT OF CONTENT, UH, WHICH IS OVER DEFINED IN THAT AS MORE THE, THE MANAGER OR DIRECTOR FOR WHICHEVER DEPARTMENT WOULD FALL UNDER THAT CONTENT.
UH, NOT REALLY SPECIFIED IN THAT R F B, UH, THE SECONDARY OR THE SECOND ORDINANCE THAT CAME OUT WAS REALLY JUST A CONTINUATION OF THAT.
UH, THAT CONTRACT WAS GOOD FOR FIVE YEARS UNDER THE 2017.
SO IN 2020, UH, THEY EXTENDED THAT.
WHAT IT IS IS THEY, UH, ALLOWED THAT CONTRACT TO GO THROUGH 2030, UH, WITH ADDITION OF THE PO POTENTIAL OF ADDING ONE YEAR ADDITIONS UP TO FOUR YEARS.
SO IT POTENTIALLY COULD GO THROUGH 2034.
SO BASICALLY FOR THE RECORD, ALL THOSE SIGNS DON'T REALLY INVOLVE US.
THEY'RE NOT OVERSEEN BY CHAPTER 28.
IT SPECIFIES IN THE FIRST ORDINANCE, NOR OTHER THAN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SIGN REGULATED AT ALL BY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, WE OVERSEE THE LIFE SAFETY SIDE OF IT.
SO LET YOU KNOW THEY HAVE TO RUN POWER TO THIS, SO WE NO, NO, WHAT WHAT I'M SAYING OTHER THAN THE, THE BUILDING OH, CORRECT.
YOU, IT'S NOT UNDER, IT'S UNDER OTHER, SOME OTHER CITY DEPARTMENT OTHER THAN DEVELOPMENT SERVICE PERMIT, CORRECT.
YEAH, THEY'RE OVERSEEING PERMIT, OVERSEE THE FINANCE SIDE OF OVERSEE PERMIT TO BUILD IT OR IT'S OUT OF COMPLIANCE, YOU KNOW, OR IT'S A DANGER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THAT FALLS OUTSIDE OF CHAPTER 28.
AND, UH, AND ONE ANOTHER ITEM IS THESE ARE, WHILE IT WAS BROUGHT UP, IT IS IN THE LOCATION OF, OF, UH, WOODLAND PARK AND IT IS IN LOCATIONS OF DOWNTOWN AND OTHER AREAS, BUT THEY'RE TECHNICALLY ON RIGHT OF WAY.
SO THE ONLY MENTION OF CHAPTER 28, UH, INTO THIS ORDINANCE IS TO SAY THAT IT MEETS CHAPTER 28 DASH 10, WHICH MEANS IT FALLS UNDER, IT'S, IT'S ON RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THAT WAS CITY COUNCIL SAYING WE APPROVE THIS TO MEET CHAPTER 28 10.
SO THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY REFERENCE TO CHAPTER 28 UNDER THESE TWO ORDINANCES.
UH, SO THANK YOU FOR THE REPORT.
UH, THE LAST ONE IS KIND OF A, IF WE WANNA SET THIS UP.
SO WE'VE RECEIVED A REQUEST TO LOOK AT THE BRIGHTNESS AND, AND DIGITAL DISPLAYED LIGHT INTENSITY, UH, FOR BOTH ON AND OFF-PREMISE SIGNS.
UH, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS LOOKED INTO CONSIDERABLY, UM, ADDRESSED, UH, UNDER THE 2017 AMENDMENTS.
AND DURING THAT TIME, UH, WE HAD THE COMMITTEE THAT WAS LOOKING AT THIS WITH D S D GO OUT, KIND OF SEE SOME LIVE ACTION NIGHTTIME OF WHAT THESE SIGNS LOOK LIKE.
UH, SEE, YOU KNOW, SOME MEASUREMENTS, SEE HOW BRIGHT IT IS TO BE ABLE TO GAUGE AND KIND OF SET THOSE REQUIREMENTS FOUND UNDER CHAPTER 28.
I'M HAPPY TO PULL THAT UP IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS IT.
UH, BUT REALLY THE ASK RIGHT NOW IS, IT'S NOT ONLY THE AGENDA, WE'RE NOT REALLY TALKING ABOUT THAT RIGHT NOW, BUT WE WANT TO GET A CENSUS FROM THE COMMITTEE.
IS THAT SOMETHING THEY WANT TO DO BEFORE WE BRING THAT TO THE COMMITTEE? IS MEET SOMETIME OFF-PREMISE, NOT AS AN OFFICIAL MEETING? I THINK THIS IS MORE JUST AN INFORMATIVE, SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT NEEDS TO BE A OFFICIAL BECAUSE WE'RE NOT TAKING ACTION.
IT WOULD JUST BE A, IT WOULD DEPEND ON IF THERE'S GONNA BE A QUORUM OR NOT.
IF THERE IS AN, UH, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT, UH, YOU KNOW, PROPER NOTICE AND ALL THAT.
I GUESS LAST TIME I WENT IN, IN OPEN MEETINGS ON THIS ONE.
SO, UM, WELL, SINCE WE ARE NOT THE FINAL DECISION MAKING BODY AND THAT WOULD BE THE WHOLE BOARD, CAN WE GO, AS LONG AS WE DON'T HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT'S OKAY, I MEAN, WE CAN'T MEET SOMEWHERE.
IT, IT, I WOULD ST THERE'S STILL WALKING QUORUM ISSUES EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE A, AT THE, A THIRD LEVEL, YOU, THERE'S Y'ALL, THERE'S THE BIG BOARD, THEN THERE'S ULTIMATELY CITY COUNCIL WHO WOULD BE THE FINAL DECISION MAKER.
AND, BUT MEETING IN, YOU KNOW, NOTICE REQUIREMENTS WOULD STILL APPLY SINCE WE'RE, WELL, OKAY, SO ASSUMING WE'RE GONNA DO THIS AT SOME POINT, CAN YOU FIGURE OUT HOW AND THEN MAYBE YES, THE NEXT MEETING REPORT BACK HOW, AND MAYBE THAT'LL BE THE LAST THING.
IS THERE AN ACTUAL RECOMMENDATION BY SOMEONE TO LOWER IT? NOW THE REQUEST WAS MORE JUST TO LOOK INTO IT, BUT YEAH, I MEAN THE, THE, IT WOULD BE TO GO DOWN AND ON BRIGHTER.
I KNOW, BUT WHO MADE THE REQUEST? UH, THIS WAS COUNCILMAN COURAGE, I BELIEVE.
[02:05:01]
UH, OR HIS OFFICE CHAPTER 10.I DON'T, I DON'T, I THINK TO YOUR POINT, UH, THIS IS MIKE SHENANIGAN.
WE DON'T HAVE A RECOMMENDATION, A FORMAL RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS, UH, FOR THE BRIGHTNESS TO BE LOWERED.
UH, WE DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT NOW.
HOWEVER, THE DISCUSSION WAS, CAN WE LOOK AT THE, THE LIGHT INTENSITY, UH, WHICH IS KIND OF A LEFTOVER FROM THE 2017 DISCUSSION.
SO I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW.
SO, UM, LIDDEL TOY BACK IN 2010 WHEN WE BROUGHT UP THE, THE DIGITAL OR THE CITY BROUGHT UP THE DIGITAL ORDINANCE, WE ACTUALLY DID THAT.
WE DO, UH, AND ART WAS ON THE, ON THE BUS AND WE WENT AROUND SAN ANTONIO WITH A LIGHT METER, ANDREW ART, AND UM, UH, A BUNCH OF THE PEOPLE FROM THE INDUSTRY.
AND WE ACTUALLY TOOK READINGS ON SOME OF THESE SIGNS.
AND WHAT WE FOUND OUT IS THAT WE HAD MORE AMBIENT LIGHT READING THAN THE ACTUAL MESSAGE CENTER PARKING LOT.
WE HAD MORE AMBIENT LIGHT READINGS FROM, FROM THE, FROM THE LIGHTS, FROM THE PARKING LOT LIGHTS AND THE VEHICLES.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GONNA DO ANY GOOD, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I ASK RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET INTO THE DISCUSSION OF THAT.
'CAUSE THAT WOULD TAKE SOME TIME TO SET UP AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO DELAY THIS PROCESS BY JUST HISTORY THOUGH.
SO MY, I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE YET TO SET UP THE THING.
I WOULD FIGURE OUT IF WE DO HOW WE'RE GONNA DO IT, AND I WOULD, IF THERE IS NO PROPOSAL THAT HAS BEEN TURNED IN TO SAY WE THINK IT SHOULD BE LOWERED FROM THIS TO THIS OR LOWERED OR RAISED OR WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, I THINK, YOU KNOW, HAVING A DISCUSSION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IS, YOU KNOW, JUST A MOVING TARGET AROUND IS A WASTE OF EVERYBODY'S TIME UNLESS SOMEBODY WANTS TO COME IN AND SAY THAT.
BUT I WOULD ASK STAFF TO BE PREPARED BECAUSE THAT MAY HAPPEN AS TO WHAT THE, WHAT THE NATIONAL STANDARDS ARE.
MAYBE CALL THE OTHER CITIES IN TEXAS AND FIND OUT WHAT THEIR LIGHT REQUIREMENTS ARE.
SO WE'RE JUST, WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WHEN IF WE GO THERE AND I HATE TO ASSIGN HOMEWORK FOR SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW THAT'S GONNA BE HAPPEN.
DIDN'T WE GO THROUGH THIS EXERCISE BEFORE MIKE? UM, YEAH.
SO EVEN, UH, MIKE SHANNON AGAIN, EVEN WITH THE, THE, UH, 2017, UH, ACTUALLY IT WAS LIKE 2015 TO 2017.
WE CALL IT THE 2017 COMMITTEE.
UH, YEAH, WE DID SOME, WE DID SOME OUT IN THE PARKING LOT.
WE, WE HAD, UH, UM, BUT EVEN THE EVEN, UH, BUT THE BUT THE BRIGHTNESS OF WAVE OF CUP, YEAH.
THE TWO DIFFERENT LIGHT LEVEL MEASUREMENTS AND UM, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE DATA FROM THEN ON OUR ENFORCEMENT, WHICH I THINK WE BROUGHT UP LAST TIME.
SO, UM, SO IT'S A CONVERSATION THAT'S OUT THERE, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, CHAIRMAN, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE ONLY TO ADDRESS IT IF IT COMES UP.
UH, BUT WE WILL WORK WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO BE READY IF IT DOES COME UP AND GIVE YOU ALL SOME OPTIONS ON HOW TO DO IT.
UH, JUST TO CLARIFY, WE DID RECEIVE A REQUEST TO LOOK INTO THE BRIGHTNESS FOR OFF ON, ON-PREMISE AND OFF PREMISE SIGNS AND ADJUST IT.
NOW, WE DID NOT GET A PROPOSAL OF EXACTLY WHAT TO ADJUST IT TO, BUT IT IS ON THE TABLE AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE PRESENTING THIS, NOT TO DISCUSS IT TODAY, BUT JUST TO PLAN IF WE NEED TO DO A DEMONSTRATION EITHER IN OUR PARKING LOT OR TO TAKE A BUS OR SHUTTLE AND GO AROUND WHATEVER CASE YOU WOULD LIKE US TO DO THAT, WE NEED TIME TO PREPARE FOR IT.
WE DON'T WANNA WAIT TILL THE LAST MEETING AND THEN POSTPONE THAT, THAT, THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON FOR BRINGING THIS IS THAT FROM COUNCILMAN KURT'S OFFICE? COUNCILMAN PERRY.
DISTRICT PERRY PERRY'S OFFICE.
AND, AND CAN WE GET FROM COUNCILMAN PERRY'S OFFICE, THE LOCATIONS OF THE SIGNS THAT HE FINDS PROBLEMATIC? SO WHEN WE, IF WE GO DO THIS TOUR, WE'RE JUST, WE'RE TOURING THE RIGHT PLACES, OR IS IT JUST SOMETHING IN GENERAL THAT SOME PERSON OR, OR THE COUNCILMAN JUST, WE HAVE A PROBLEM? YOU KNOW? NO, WE CAN'T.
WE, WE, WE CAN, WE CAN DEFINITELY GET THAT INFORMATION.
BUT AGAIN, I THINK JEREMY'S PRESENTING THIS TODAY JUST TO GET THE FEEDBACK FROM YOU GUYS.
DO YOU WANT US TO WORK ON SETTING UP SOMETHING AND OBVIOUSLY WE WILL GET EXACT LOCATIONS AND ALL THAT? OR DO YOU JUST WANNA DISCUSS IT HERE AND COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATIONS AT THE TIME WHEN THIS ITEM, UH, IS ON THE AGENDA? YEAH.
I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO BE PREPARED.
I WOULD ASSUME WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO DO THIS AND THEN I WOULD WELL, BUT YOU KNOW IT,
[02:10:01]
IF IT COULD WE STOP AT A BAR FIRST.JUST REMEMBER YOU'RE ON TV, LIDDELL, YOU CAN DO THAT BEFORE WE MEET.
NO, BUT I JUST, I, I JUST THINK WE SHOULD BE PREPARED TO DO IT AND THEN IF WE DON'T, WE JUST CANCEL THE TRIP.
BUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING A MOVING TARGET IN THE SKY TO GO LOOK AT A HUNDRED, YOU KNOW, UH, DIGITAL SIGNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, TO ME, IF NOBODY IS COMPLAINING ABOUT 'EM, YOU KNOW, HAVE, AND THAT WOULD BE A QUE HAVE YOU HAD A BUNCH OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT TWO BRIGHT SIGNS? YES.
UH, ART, DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS? UH, HOW MANY? HOW MANY? LET ME SEE IF I HAVE THEM HERE.
DO YOU GET ONE A MONTH? MAYBE ONE EVERY MONTH AND A HALF, EVERY TWO MONTHS.
SO, SO YOU CAN GET US THE EXACT NUMBERS LATER, WHICH I THINK WE SHOULD GET.
BUT IF YOU'RE GETTING SIX COMPLAINTS A YEAR WITH THE, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY 30, 20, HOW MANY DIGITAL SIGNS, YOU KNOW, 20 OR 30,000 DIGITAL SIGNS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO? IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, SO YEAH, SINCE 2017 WE HAVE HAD 50 INVESTIGATIONS AND THREE OF THEM TURN INTO CITATIONS.
AND OUT OF THE 10 A YEAR, YOU HAVE TWO THIRDS CITATIONS PER YEAR.
SO THREE TENTHS, THREE TENTHS OF A CITATION.
NO, THREE OUTTA 50, THREE OUT OF 50.
OVER THREE OVER SINCE 2017 CO.
SO THAT'S OVER A FIVE YEAR PERIOD.
SO THAT'S LESS THAN ONE PER YEAR.
THAT ACTUALLY IS IN VIOLATION.
AND THEN DO YOU HAVE THE, OUT OF THE 50 THAT YOU WENT TO, DO YOU HAVE THE SIGN READINGS AT WHAT THEY WERE? YES, SIR.
SO IF WE CAN JUST GET THAT INFORMATION.
YOU KNOW, YOU WENT OUT AND HERE'S THE READINGS.
SO, YOU KNOW, WERE THEY AT FIVE, I THINK FIVE IS WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.
NO, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 0.3 OVER AMBIENT LIGHT.
POINT THREE OVER AMBIENT LIGHT.
AND SO LET'S, YOU KNOW, WE FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT IS SO WE SEE IF THERE'S SOME PATTERN.
AND BASED ON THE, UH, 2017 CODE CHAINS, WE DO FIVE READINGS PER SIDE.
IF IT'S A DOUBLE-SIDED, UH, SIGN, WE'LL DO FIVE READING SEPARATE READINGS ON ONE SIDE, AND THEN FIVE SEPARATE ON THE SECOND SIDE.
WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR THE CITATION? IS THE, UH, SIGN COMMITTEE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM BEFORE YOU CITE THEM? USUALLY THE CITATION WILL GO TO THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE BUSINESS OWNER, BECAUSE WE, IF WE ISSUE A VIOLATION, THE SCENARIO WOULD BE IF WE GO OUT ONE EVENING AND DO THE READINGS THE FOLLOWING DAY, IF THAT SIGN WAS NOT IN COMPLIANCE, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND, AND ISSUE A VIOLATION NOTICE.
JUST LETTING 'EM KNOW THERE WAS A COMPLAINT, WE CAME BY, WE CHECKED IT.
SO YOU'RE ABOVE THE ALLOWABLE READINGS.
SO WE'LL GIVE 'EM AMPLE TIME TO DO THEIR CORRECTIONS AND WE, WE COME BACK AGAIN AND FOLLOW UP FIVE DAYS, THREE DAYS.
AND IF THEY'RE STILL NOT IN COMPLIANT, THEN WE'LL DO IT ANOTHER VIOLATION.
THEN THE THIRD TIME WE ISSUE A CITATION.
SO THOSE THREE CITATIONS, JUST PEOPLE, IT'S JUST 1, 1 1 CITATION.
SO THEY, THEY CORRECTED IT AND YEAH.
AND THERE WAS A TOTAL OF 10 A YEAR, BASICALLY.
AND I'LL, AND I'LL JUST JUMP IN.
WE WILL BRING BACK THE DATA, ALL THE DATA THAT SHOWS WHEN WE GET CALLED OUT.
MOST OF THE TIME THERE'S A VIOLATION, BUT IT'S OVER AND ABOVE WHAT THE STANDARD IS.
AND THROUGH THE NOTIFICATION PROCESS TO THE BUSINESS OWNER, THEY CORRECT IT.
BUT WE'LL SHOW YOU, WE'LL SHOW YOU THE 50 LOCATIONS, THE READINGS AND THE ONES THAT, YOU KNOW, NEEDED A CITATION TO
WELL, AND I, WE'LL, WE'LL LET YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK YOU'LL SEE THAT
[02:15:02]
THE COMPLAINTS WE'RE GETTING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ABOVE THE MAXIMUM.SO, WE'LL, WE'LL, WE CAN BRING THAT FOR NEXT TIME.
BUT IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT THE INITIAL READING WHEN YOU, FIRST TIME YOU WENT OUT THERE, WHAT THE READING ON THOSE 50 WERE, SO WE CAN GET SOME IDEA, IS IT FOUR TIMES OF WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, OR IS IT BARELY ABOVE? OR WAS IT, BUT SEE ON, YEAH, LIKE SOME OF THESE, LIKE SOME OF THESE SIGNS YOU CAN SUNTAN UNDERNEATH THEM.
THEY'RE SO BRIGHT, YOU CAN SUNTAN UNDERNEATH THEM.
YEAH, BUT I, MOST OF THESE ARE PROBABLY ON PREMISE THEN.
YEAH, BECAUSE I, I CAN'T SEE HOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE OUT FRONT OR CLEAR CHANNEL WOULD EVER WANT TO, YOU KNOW, VIOLATE.
SO I, THAT'S WHY I THINK MOST OF THEM ARE GONNA BE ON PREMISE.
AND IS ONE, ONE MORE QUESTION.
WHEN THEY INSTALLED THE SIGN INITIALLY YEAH, THERE'S A LIGHT METER ON DO SO THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE YOU TO GET FINAL INSPECTION.
WHAT THE, WHAT THE READING IS PART OF OUR INSPECTION PROCESS ON THE FINAL IS WE DO NOT ISSUE THE FINAL UNTIL WE GO IN THE EVENING AND TAKE OUR PROPER READINGS.
ALL THE, UH, OBLIGATORY MESSAGING PLEASE.
UH, WE WENT OVER THIS EARLIER, SO I DON'T THINK I NEED TO GO INTO DETAIL.
THIS IS THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION OF WHERE, UH, YOU CAN FIND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THIS, THE MEETING RECORDINGS, LIVE MEETINGS, AND UH, WHERE TO EMAIL US IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ANYTHING WRITTEN INTO THE COMMENTS OR, UH, HAVE ANY STAFF CON CORRELATION WITH US.
SO THAT'S EVERYTHING FROM STAFF.
ANYTHING ELSE? WELL, I'D LIKE TO, UH, THANK Y'ALL FOR SLUGGING THROUGH THIS WITH US.
YOU BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, 'CAUSE YOU WILL GET IT.
SECOND DISCUSSION WITHOUT DISSENT.