[00:00:01]
I THINK WE ARE GETTING READY TO START.
WE HAVE EVERYTHING UP AND RUNNING.
FINALLY, I THINK WE ARE STREAMING.
ARE THEY OPERATIONAL OR, UH, PUSHING.
THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING.
THIS IS THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES, APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD ENERGY CODE COMMITTEE MEETING FOR THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE REVIEW.
WE'LL START WITH THE INTERPRETATION ANNOUNCEMENT.
THIS IS A BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT INTERPRETATION SERVICES.
ALRIGHT, WE'LL DO A QUICK ROLL CALL, MAKE SURE WE HAVE QUORUM.
UH, WE DO HAVE BOTH THE PRIMARY AND ALTERNATE MICHAEL RUST AND MARK ROSS PRESENT.
SO THE VOTE WILL GO TO MICHAEL ROSS AT THE TIME.
I HAVE BID FOR ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THIS TIME.
WE ALSO DID NOT RECEIVE ANY EMAILS OR WRITTEN IN OR VOICEMAILS AT THIS TIME.
SO IF WE DO RECEIVE ANY, WE'LL READ THOSE INTO THE COMMITTEE AT THAT TIME.
ALRIGHT, SO WE ARE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE.
THIS IS THE FIRST MEETING OF THIS COMMITTEE.
SO WE NEED TO VOTE FOR A CHAIR AND CO-CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE.
SO I HAVE A RE OR I HAVE A FIRST FROM MARK ROSS TO APPOINT MICHAEL RUST AS THE CHAIR SECONDED BY ROBERT HENLEY.
I NOMINATE, UH, MIKE RUS AS THE, UH, CHAIRMAN OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE.
SO I HAVE ROBERT HENLEY WITH JAHAR RUST, WITH JACK MORRIS.
ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
ANY ABSTENTIONS OR ANYBODY AGAINST? ALRIGHT, MICHAEL RUST.
UH, IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE TO, UH, NOMINATE AND HAVE A CO-CHAIR FOR THE COMMITTEE, NOMINATE, UH, ROBERT HENLEY
I WAS TRYING TO GET MY FINGER ON THE BUTTON AND I'M NAMED JACK.
YOU KNEW WHAT I WAS DOING REALLY FAST.
OH, I GUESS I'M SUPPOSED TO BE DOING THIS.
UM, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? ROBERT, THANK YOU.
ALRIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR AND CO-CHAIR.
UH, WE DID ACTUALLY HAVE A BOARD MEMBER THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE ADDED TO THIS COMMITTEE.
UH, BUT UNFORTUNATELY HE'S NOT HERE TODAY.
AND, UH, SO WE'LL PROBABLY WAIT AND WE'LL KEEP THIS ON THE AGENDA AS ALWAYS, IN CASE HE IS ABLE TO JOIN US FOR THE NEXT ONE.
UM, BUT AT THIS TIME, I THINK EVERYBODY HERE CURRENTLY PRESENT.
WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? UH, LON COLBERTSON.
HE'S OUR ALTERNATE FOR, UH, ELECTRICAL ENGINEER.
UM, SO I THINK, UH, WE CAN TABLE THAT AGENDA ITEM AND MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, WHICH IS THE DISCUSSION OF THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE, UH, WITH PROPOSED CHANGES TO CURRENT AMENDMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE FULL BOARD FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, CRYSTAL GONZALEZ.
UM, WE WILL, UH, WE, WE'LL GET STARTED, BUT I JUST WANTED TO INTRODUCE, UM, SOME STAFF HERE.
I'M NOT THE ENERGY EXPERT, WON'T PRETEND TO BE, SO I HAD HAVE A LOT OF TEAM MEMBERS HE HERE TO HELP.
UH, OF COURSE YOU GUYS KNOW JASMINE WELLING.
SHE OVERSEES OUR COMMERCIAL, UM, COMMERCIAL BUILDING TEAM, RICHARD CHAMBERLAIN, ENGINEER OVER PLAN REVIEW, UH, RACHEL HOLDER, ENGINEER OVER PLAN REVIEW, FLORENCE DIAZ, UH, MANAGER IN PLAN REVIEW, UH,
[00:05:01]
AND VIVIAN LOPEZ, UM, UH, ENGINEERING ASSOCIATE IN PLAN REVIEW AS WELL.CRYSTAL, I'M JUST TO INTERRUPT YOU.
UH, WE HAVE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC HERE, RIGHT? YES.
SO JUST, IT'S VERY FORMAL LOOKING, BUT ANYTIME YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING, PLEASE JUMP UP AND AND DO IT.
THIS IS A LOT MORE FORMAL SETUP THAN WE NORMALLY HAVE IN THESE THINGS.
WE CAN GET STARTED WITH, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE.
SO YOU'LL, THIS IS, UH, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING.
THE SUMMARY OF CHANGE, UH, IS WHAT STAFF INTERPRETS AS THE CHANGE.
THE ITALICIZED TEXT IS A SUMMARY OF THE PROPONENT'S, UM, REASON FOR THE CHANGE.
SO WE HAVE DISCUSSED THAT BEFORE.
THIS IS THE ARGUMENTS THAT WERE HEARD AT THE I C C CODE HEARINGS.
SO WE, WE LOOKED AT THOSE AS WELL TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE CHANGE.
SO ITEM NUMBER ONE, UH, SECTION C 3 0 3 0.1 0.2.
SO INSTALLATION MARK INSTALLATION.
SO THAT REQUIRES THE R-VALUE TO BE OBSERVABLE, UM, ON THE INSTALLATION OR AN INSTALLATION CERTIFICATE BE PROVED.
SO THIS IS TYPICALLY WHAT WE DO ALREADY.
WE HAVE A, A LETTER THAT'S SUBMITTED FROM THE GC OR THE INSTALLING CONTRACTOR THAT, THAT IDENTIFIES WITH THE R VALUE OF THE ITEMS INSTALLED.
WE DIDN'T SEE THIS AS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE OR A COST INCREASE.
SO LIKE THE LITTLE, UM, SORRY THAT WAS LOUD.
UH, THE LITTLE RULER THAT THEY STAPLE TO THE RAFTERS THAT THEY BLOW IN INSULATION.
YOU CAN SEE HOW DEEP IT IS THAT, THAT, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
THAT, WELL, IF THAT'S, IF THE, WELL THE R VALUE HAS TO BE ON THERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE R VALUE WOULD BE ON THE BLOWN IN INSULATION OR TO HAVE AN INSULATION CERTIFICATE SUBMITTED.
AND WHEN YOU SAY CERTIFICATE, THAT'S JUST A LETTER FROM THE INSTALLER SAYING THE INSTALLATION INSTALL MEETS THE FOLLOWING OR VALUE.
'CAUSE IT'S ALL HARD TO LOOK AT A WALL IF THEY'RE NOT THERE.
BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE THAT IN A WALL.
SO THE CERTIFICATE MAKES GOOD SENSE.
UH, CHAIRMAN, UM, ARE WE GONNA GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH AND WE'RE NOT GONNA ADOPT 'EM INDIVIDUALLY? CORRECT? WE'LL DO LIKE WE'VE BEEN DOING WHERE WE'LL JUST SAY ALL WE'RE GOOD WITH THIS.
IF WE HAVE EXCEPTIONS, WE'LL, WE'LL NOTE 'EM ON THE WAY.
UM, CRYSTAL, I'M SORRY, BEFORE, ONE MORE HOUSEKEEPING THING BEFORE WE GO, I GUESS TOO.
UM, IS THIS EVERYTHING OR IS THERE ANOTHER DAY PLANNED WITH MORE? THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT STAFF HAS IDENTIFIED AS A, AS A, UH, SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
UM, AND OUR CURRENT AMENDMENTS, BECAUSE WHEN WE DID THE FIRE CODE, IT WAS ONE I I FELT LIKE JOYOUS, LIKE WE WERE DONE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I WAS SURPRISED BY THREE MORE DAYS OF IT.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MANAGE MY EXPECTATIONS.
UM, AND THEN THE SECOND THING IS, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF OUTSIDE GROUPS THAT ARE, HAVE INTEREST IN THIS CODE AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, THE ROOM IS MORE EMPTY THAN I'VE SEEN FOR OR EXPECTED FOR ENERGY CODE.
HAVE THEY ALL BEEN, I MEAN, DID THEY ALL I, I KNOW WE'VE POSTED EVERYTHING LEGALLY, BUT I MEAN, I, I JUST DON'T WANNA HAVE TO GO FIGHT, NOT FIGHT, BUT HAD THESE DISCUSSIONS THAT TWICE IF THOSE GROUPS COME BACK LATER, I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, THAT, THAT THAT'S GOOD.
I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN.
AND THIS MORNING JEREMY DID CONFIRM THAT HE REACHED OUT TO THOSE GROUPS INDIVIDUALLY TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE AWARE OF THIS MEETING.
JUST WANNA GET THAT ON, ON THE RECORD.
UM, CHAIR, THIS IS EMIN THOMAS, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UH, JUST AGAIN, YESTERDAY I EMAILED A BUNCH OF FOLKS AS WELL.
JUST A REMINDER THAT THE MEETING IS HERE TODAY AT EIGHT 30.
MAYBE IT'LL GO SMOOTHER THAN WE THOUGHT.
AGAIN, THIS IS, I MEAN, THOMAS, I THINK AS YOU KNOW, THE MAIN INTEREST, UM, IS THE EV AND SOLAR READY.
SO KNOWING THAT TODAY WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE CODE, UH, MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY DIDN'T SHOW UP.
I'M NOT SURE, BUT I'M SURE NEXT MEETING THEY WILL BE HERE.
SO WE'RE NOT GONNA GO THROUGH THOSE TWO ITEMS TODAY.
THE EV AND, UM, PV ITEMS ARE NOT ON THIS AGENDA.
UM, AFTER WE FINISH THIS, THESE 40, 54 ITEMS. OKAY.
WE CAN, WE CAN GET STARTED AGAIN.
I REALIZED I LEFT, LEFT OFF THE LAST COLUMN THAT WE'VE HAD ON THERE, THE RECOMMENDATION APPROVED.
UM, SO JASMINE HAS IT UP ON THE SCREEN, SO WE'LL TRACK THAT AS WE GO.
UM, UH, BUT APOLOGIZE, IT'S NOT PRINTED ON THE SPREADSHEET.
[00:10:01]
NUMBER TWO.YES, WE'RE GOOD TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE RECOMMENDATION.
THIS IS A NEW SECTION, EXCUSE ME, THAT REQUIRES THAT THERMAL ENVELOPE CERTIFICATION BE COMPLETED BY APPROVED PARTY AND LEFT ON SITE.
CAN YOU, WHAT'S THE DIFF YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND THE PREVIOUS ONE ITEM? UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE VERSUS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO.
'CAUSE IN ON, IN ONE IT NOTES THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LEAVE A CERTIFICATE AND THIS IS NOW THE TYPE, THE CERTIFIC, I DON'T KNOW JUST A LITTLE, WELL, THE THERMAL ENVELOPE CERTIFICATE WOULD CONTAIN ADDITIONAL ITEMS, NOT JUST R VALUES FOR INSULATION, BUT U FACTORS.
UH, THE SOLAR HEAT GAIN COEFFICIENTS, THE RESULTS FROM THE BUILDING ENVELOPE, AIR LEAKAGE TESTS, THOSE ITEMS, UH, IDENTIFIED 1, 2, 3.
SO IT'S MORE THAN JUST THE R VALUE OF THE INSULATION.
AND THIS WOULD APPLY TO ALL, TO EVERYTHING LIKE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, DUPLEXES, APARTMENTS, COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
SO THIS IS THE COMMERCIAL SECTION OF THE ENERGY CODE.
SO THIS WOULD APPLY TO MULTIFAMILY FOUR STORIES AND GREATER, UH, IN THOSE OTHER COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, THIS WOULD NOT, UM, THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO ONE IN TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS, TOWN HOMES AND MULTI-FAMILY.
CRYSTAL, IF AN INDIVIDUAL IS COMPLIANT WITH, UH, C 4 0 1 3 BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT OUR VALUES, YOU VALUES AND LEAK TESTING, THEN YOU'RE ALSO GONNA BE COMPLIANT WITH C UH, 3 0 3 2.
UM, C 3 0 3 2, THERE'S AN OR IN THERE, RIGHT? SO THE R VALUES HAVE TO BE OBSERVABLE OR THE CERTIFICATE.
SO IF YOU WANT WITH THE CERTIFICATE, YES.
YOU WOULD BE COMPLYING WITH BOTH.
AND ARE, ARE YOU DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR TO NUMBER TWO NOW? YES, WE ARE.
SO THE WAY THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU DO NOW.
ARE WE EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT ONE? I DO WANNA POINT OUT, SORRY, ANOTHER HOUSEKEEPING ITEM THAT WE CURRENTLY ADOPT CHAPTERS, UH, TWO THROUGH FIVE.
UM, THAT'S THE COMMERCIAL SECTIONS AND THEN TWO THROUGH FIVE OF THE RESIDENTIAL AND CHAPTER SIX, BOTH THE COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL CHAPTER SIX.
SO IT SHOULD BE TWO THROUGH SIX.
SORRY, I'M READING STRAIGHT FROM OUR AMENDMENTS.
UM, SO WE DON'T ADOPT CHAPTER ONE, BUT CHAPTER TWO DEFINITIONS, WE DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING WAS SIGNIFICANT.
UM, AND THREE, THREE THROUGH SIX.
OKAY, NEXT ITEM NUMBER THREE, THAT'S TABLE C 4 0 2 0.1 0.4.
AND THOSE ARE THE PAGE NUMBERS UNDERNEATH, JUST TO, TO HELP GET TO THE RIGHT PAGE QUICKER.
THEY ADDED NON SWINGING DOORS TO THE TABLE AND CHANGED THE U FACTORS FOR SWINGING DOORS TO INCREASE EFFICIENCY.
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE INCREASE IN COSTS? I DO NOT.
THE PROPONENT AT THE I C C CODE HEARINGS WOULD'VE IDENTIFIED THAT IT IS AN, AN INCREASE IN COST.
UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THEY INCLUDE THAT INFORMATION IN THEIR ARGUMENT.
UH, TYPICALLY IN THE CODE HEARINGS THEY DID WOULD NOT TYPICALLY PROVIDE A NUMBER.
'CAUSE IT'S SO VARIED BASED ON THE CLIMATE ZONES AND A LOT OF FACTORS.
SO THEY WOULD GENERALLY SAY THERE'S A, THEY'D SAY A SMALL INCREASE OR A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE.
BUT THAT'S ABOUT ALL THEY WOULD EVER SAY GENERALLY.
AND THESE ARE LIKE GLASS SWINGING DOORS FOR THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING? YES.
I MEAN THERE'S THE ROLL UP KIND OF DOORS AND THERE'S SWINGING DOORS.
SO THEY SPLIT OUT, THEY SPLIT THOSE OUT THIS YEAR.
MY ROLE HERE IS TO ASK THE SILLY QUESTION.
[00:15:01]
U VALUE IS MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT.FOR ANYBODY ELSE THAT WAS WONDERING, THAT WAS AFRAID TO ASK, I GOT IT FOR YOU.
BUT THESE ARE EXTERIOR DOORS THAT ARE STILL COMMONLY AVAILABLE.
NOT GONNA HAVE TO REINVENT THE WHEEL.
A LITTLE BACKGROUND IS, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR, UH, CAR DEALERSHIP SERVICE DEPARTMENTS WHEN THEY TRY TO HAVE GLASS IN THEIR OVERHEAD COILING DOORS TO, TO MEET THE ENERGY CODE.
SO HOPEFULLY THIS, THESE MODIFICATIONS WILL MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER.
ANY CONCERNS? ALRIGHT, WE'RE GOOD.
ITEM NUMBER FOUR, THAT'S, UM, A CHANGE TO TABLE C FOUR.
FENESTRATION ALSO THE U FACTORS THERE.
ANY CONCERNS ON THIS FROM THE COMMITTEE? OKAY, WE'RE GOOD WITH NUMBER FOUR.
YEAH, I THINK WE'RE GOOD TO MOVE TO FIVE.
NUMBER FIVE IS AN EXISTING CSA AMENDMENT TO C 4 0 2 0.3 FOR THE ROOF, SOLAR REFLECTANCE AND THERMAL EMITTANCE.
SO WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP THIS AMENDMENT AND JUST UPDATED TO MATCH THE 2021 LANGUAGE.
UH, WE'RE BRINGING THAT UP NOW.
SO YOU'LL SEE THAT THE UNDERLINED, THE BLACK UNDERLINED TEXT IS THE LANGUAGE THAT WE HAVE ADDED IN THAT BLUE TEXT IS WHAT WE'VE ADDED TO REFLECT THE UPDATED 2021 LANGUAGE.
SO THE BLACK UNDERLINED TEXT IS WHAT WE'VE ADDED.
SO DID, DID YOU ALREADY CHANGE IT IN MUNI CODE? IS IT ALREADY, DOES MUNI CODE MUNI CODE ALREADY? 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T, I DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT YOU HAVE HERE AND WHAT'S IN JOURNEY.
THEY ARE CHAPTER 10 IS IN MOONY CODE.
UM, SO I I SEE THE, IT'S IT'S ZERO THREE.
THE, THE BLUE TEXT IS THE CHANGE IN THE 21.
BUT WE, WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO IS THE UNDERLYING TEXT.
THE BLACK UNDERLYING TEXT IS WHAT WE'VE ADDED, WHAT WE ADDED IN 2018 AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IN 2021.
AND ALL THAT DOES IS, IS CLARIFY WHAT A LOW SLOPE ROOF IS.
THIS, THIS AMENDMENT, UH, WHEN WE BROUGHT IT IN, I THINK IT WAS 2009, UH, WE'RE ASKING FOR SOLAR REFLECTANCE FOR, FOR ROOFS THAT ARE NOT A LOW, UH, SLOPE ROOF.
SO BASICALLY ANY COMMERCIAL ROOF HAS TO MEET A, A REFLECTANCE OF EITHER WHAT'S IN THE CODE OR, OR THAT 0.35.
SO LIKE ON A FLAT ROOF, THEY WOULD DO IT BY USING A RUBBERIZED ROOFING THAT HAS A WHITE REFLECTIVE THAT'S CORRECT.
OUR AMENDMENTS TRAVEL ON THE ROOF OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THE CODES HAVE HAD FOR, FOR THE FLAT ROOFS ARE VERY LOW SLOPE, BUT A FEW YEARS AGO WE ADDED IT FOR THE, FOR ROOFS THAT ARE NOT, UH, LOW SLOPE ROOFS.
ANY CONCERNS HERE? ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO TO NUMBER SIX PLEASE.
NUMBER SIX IS ALSO AN EXISTING CITY AMENDMENT, UM, TO C 4 0 2 0.4 0.2.
SO THAT ADDS THE CITY AMENDMENT ADDS THE EXCEPTION AND DOES NOT REQUIRE SKYLIGHTS FOR WAREHOUSES WITH E SS F R.
THAT'S THE EARLY SUPPRESSION, FAST RESPONSE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. ANY CONCERNS WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP THAT AMENDMENT AND JUST UPDATE IT TO REFLECT THE 2021 LANGUAGE.
[00:20:06]
MARK, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? NO.THAT IS A CHANGE TO THE 2021 FOR C 4 0 2 0.5 0.12.
SO THIS ADDS ADDITIONAL PARAMETERS FOR TESTING.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS WOULD APPLY ONLY TO COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AND R TWO FOUR STORIES BORN.
THIS IS THE COMMERCIAL SECTION.
AND JUST SO WE ALL REMEMBER, WE ARE IN CLIMATE ZONE TWO A.
ANYBODY WITH CONCERNS ON THIS? ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE TO EIGHT PLEASE.
THIS IS A NEW SECTION FOR DATA CENTERS.
SO THIS PROVIDES GUIDANCE FOR DATA CENTERS SPECIFICALLY.
UH, AND THEN THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ASHRA 90.4, WHICH IS THE ENERGY STANDARDS FOR DATA CENTERS.
ANYBODY WITH CONCERNS ON THIS? ALL RIGHT, SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.
I'M, WE'RE, WE'RE TURNING A LOT OF PAGES THAT HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, THE LINE MARKING THAT THERE'S SOMETHING ADDED TO THE CODE.
ARE THESE THINGS THAT ARE JUST CAPTURED IN TABLES THAT WE'VE ALREADY REVIEWED? OR IS IT ITEMS THAT YOU JUST DON'T, THE, THE CITY DOESN'T FEEL ARE, ARE MATERIAL CHANGES? THAT'S A GOOD POINT, MIKE.
MOST OF THOSE ARE, UH, REORGANIZED SECTIONS.
THEY BROKE UP SECTIONS, THEY MOVED THEM.
UM, SO WE DID GO THROUGH ALL OF THOSE CHANGES.
STAFF WENT THROUGH ALL OF THOSE CHANGES, UM, AND IDENTIFIED IF IT WAS AN ACTUAL CHANGE.
UM, AND MOST, MOST OF THE TIME, I WOULD SAY 98% OF THE TIME IT, IF IT MADE IT TO THE, UH, SPREADSHEET IF IT WAS A CHANGE IN THE PROCESS OR THE REQUIREMENTS.
SO YEAH, YOU'LL NOTICE A LOT OF THOSE, UM, BLACK BARS ON THE SIDE, BUT THOSE WERE JUST REORGANIZATIONS, UM, OF ITEMS THAT WERE ALREADY REQUIRED.
A LOT OF THE AR RICH RICHARD CHAMBERLAIN, A LOT OF THE ARGUMENTS WERE JUST FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES TO MAKE IT EASIER TO UNDERSTAND OR READ.
SO THAT'S WHY THERE'S A LOT OF THOSE BARS.
UM, SO I THINK WE'RE ON MOVING ON TO SECTION OR ITEM NINE.
ITEM NINE IS A, A NEW SECTION C 4 0 3 0.2 0.3 THAT REQUIRES DIAGNOSTICS FOR HVAC SYSTEMS AND BUILDINGS OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET.
SO R ONE HOTELS, R TWOS AND MULTIFAMILY.
SO IF YOU HAVE A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT BUILDING THAT IS DIVIDED INTO MULTIPLE SPACES WITH INDIVIDUAL AIR CONDITIONING UNITS LIKE OFFICE WAREHOUSE, BIG BUILDING, WOULD THEY HAVE TO HAVE THAT DIAGNOSTIC ON EVERY SINGLE UNIT? LET'S SAY THERE'S 40 UNITS IN THE, IN THE SPACE.
'CAUSE I THINK WHAT THIS WAS TRYING TO GET AT IS WHEN YOU HAVE A BIG COMMON SYSTEM THAT IT NOTIFIES YOU WHEN SOMETHING'S GOING WRONG.
I BELIEVE THAT IS THE INTENT MARKET DOES SAY THAT THOSE SYSTEMS ARE SERVING A GROSS CONDITION FLOOR AREA OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET.
SO IT'S THAT SYSTEM THAT'S SERVING IF THEY HAVE INDIVIDUAL SYSTEMS, LIKE IN A, UM, ARE YOU THINKING LIKE, UH, INDIVIDUAL SUITES IN A SHOPPING CENTER OR SOMETHING? YES.
SHOPPING CENTER THAT MAY HAVE, YOU KNOW, 25 OR 30 UNITS ON THE ROOF 'CAUSE IT'S ZONED VERSUS A CHILLED WATER SYSTEM SERVING OR SOME BIG SYSTEM SERVING THE WHOLE BUILDING.
AND AND ANYBODY FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THIS
[00:25:01]
DOES SEEM TO REFERENCE THAT SYSTEM THAT SERVES THE ENTIRE A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET OR MORE.JUST READ FOR THAT AND NOT THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS FOR EACH TENANT.
SO I THINK THIS IS OKAY, BUT CAN WE JUST GO BACK AND READ THE REAL CODE LANGUAGE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T NEED TO ADD SOMETHING THAT JUST CLARIFIES THAT BECAUSE IT, IT DOESN'T SAY SYSTEM, IT SAYS SYSTEMS AND, AND WELL IT DOES SAY NEW BUILDINGS WITH AND HVAC SYSTEM SERVING THE GROSS CONDITIONED FLOOR AREA OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET OR MORE.
UM, I WON'T READ OUT THOSE SECTION NUMBERS AND TABLES, BUT, UM, ON PAGE C 15, THESE TABLES ARE BASED ON FEDERAL MANUFACTURING REQUIREMENTS AND THEY WERE ADDED TO MATCH ASHRAY.
ANY CONCERNS WITH THE, UH, FORMALISM EQUATIONS HERE? SOMEONE'S GONNA EXPLAIN IT TO US.
ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO, UH, TO 11 AND NOT SOON ENOUGH.
UM, THAT INCREASES EFFICIENCY.
IT ADDED, SO THIS IS AUTOMATIC START AND STOP.
SO IT PREVIOUSLY ONLY ADDRESSED START CONTROLS.
UM, AND NOW IT ALSO ADDRESSES STOP CONTROLS.
WE FELT THIS WOULD NOT BE A SIGN, UH, POTENTIAL COST INCREASE BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY, UH, COMMONPLACE.
IT IMPROVES COORDINATION WITH ASHRAY AND IN TWO A, WHICH IS OUR CLIMATE ZONE, THE HVAC SYSTEMS CAN DEHUMIDIFY WHILE PROVIDING SUPPLY AIR.
GOING BACK TO 11, THAT IS THAT R TWO UNDER THREE DOES NOT HAVE TO DO THAT? OR IS THAT ALL R TWOS? SO R TWOS THREE STORIES AND LESS FALL UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL.
SO, AND THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO THE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS? CORRECT.
ITEM 13, THAT'S A CHANGE TO C 4 0 3 0.7 0.1.
UH, MORE PRACTICAL APPLICATION.
AND YOU GUYS CAN SEE THAT SUMMARY OF CHANGE.
IT DECREASED THE OCCUPANT LOAD FROM 25 DOWN TO 15, UM, AND PROVIDES COORDINATED COORDINATION WITH ASHRAY 90.1.
ANY CONCERNS HERE? QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM 14 PLEASE.
OH 3.7 0.2 CLARIFIES THE TYPE OF DETECTORS, DETECTORS REQUIRED, UM, FOR THOSE ENCLOSED PARKING GARAGE, UH, FOR ENCLOSED PARKING, GARAGE VENTILATION.
CRYSTAL, UH, DO WE HAVE A DEFINITION OF HOW MUCH OF THE GARAGE HAS TO BE ENCLOSED TO BE CLASSIFIED AS AN ENCLOSED GARAGE? WE DO IN THE BUILDING CODE.
IT IDENTIFIES HOW TO CALCULATE THAT TO DETERMINE IF IT'S ENCLOSED, UH, OR OPEN.
THAT IS A CHANGE TO C 4 0 3 0.7 0.4.
UH, ADD REQUIREMENTS FOR NON-TRANSIENT DWELLING UNITS.
EXEMPTS, UH, DWELLING UNITS FROM HEATING ENERGY RECOVERY RECOVERY REQUIREMENTS.
[00:30:19]
I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD REALLY HAVE A MECHANICAL CONTRACTOR HERE TO ON SOME OF THIS STUFF.OR ENGINEER AT, UH, MIKE, WE COULD ALWAYS TABLE, UM, THESE ITEMS IF YOU FEEL WE SHOULD WAIT FOR, UM, REPRESENTATION.
I DON'T KNOW IF, IF GREG MCFARLAND WAS, UM, GONNA BE AT OTHER MEETINGS, CORRECT? YEAH, GREG WAS, UNFORTUNATELY I'M ABLE TO ATTEND TODAY.
HE'S ACTUALLY LISTENING ONLINE RIGHT NOW AND ALREADY EMAILED ME A COUPLE ITEMS.
SO IF THERE IS ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO TABLE FOR GREG TO BE HERE AS THE, UH, MECHANICAL ENGINEER ON, ON THE COMMITTEE? YEAH, I JUST, UH, I'M SORRY.
UM, I THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA TRY TO WRAP THIS ALL UP IN ONE MEETING.
SO THE QUESTION I HAVE IS, DID MCFARLAND SEND YOU ANY COMMENTS? BUT YOU HAVE TWO AND YOU'LL BRING THOSE UP WHEN WE COME TO THAT ISSUE.
UH, I DID NOT RECEIVE ANY PREVIOUSLY.
UH, HE'S JUST LISTENING LIVE AND HE TOLD ME IN RE RELATION TO THAT A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT AND, AND THE, UH, I'M SORRY, I'M GOTTA GET BACK TO THAT.
UH, THIS IS THE, UH, ITEM, THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT FAULT DETECTION.
HIS STATEMENT WAS WATCHING ONLINE, THE FAULT DETECTION IS OFTEN APPLIES TO EVEN A SINGLE R T U, NOT THE WHOLE BUILDING.
UH, NOT 100% SURE ON THE SECTION THOUGH, SO CAN'T READ IN INTO THAT TOO MUCH, BUT I FIGURED HE WOULD COME AND TALK ABOUT THAT.
BUT, UH, AS FAR AS TRYING TO WRAP THIS UP, I MEAN WE HAVE FIVE MEETINGS CURRENTLY ON THE COM, UH, ON THE SCHEDULE FOR THE ENERGY CODE.
SO I I I WOULD SAY THAT WE HAVE PLENTY OPPORTUNITY TO TABLE AND COME BACK, UH, TO DISCUSS SOME OF THESE ITEMS. I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THOSE MEETINGS ARE FOR OTHER ITEMS, BUT WE ASSUME WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE, GET THROUGH A LOT OF THIS TODAY AND THEN STILL HAVE SOME TIME DEDICATED AT THE NEXT MEETING TO WRAP UP KIND OF THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES BETWEEN 2018 AND 2021 AND ANY OF YOUR POST AMENDMENT OR RATHER THAN TABLE IT, MAYBE WE JUST GO AHEAD AND APPROVE IT WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT IF SOMEBODY ON THE COMMITTEE THAT'S NOT HERE WANTS TO EXACTLY REOPEN IT, WE CAN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.
'CAUSE I THINK WE ALSO ARE GONNA NEED TO LET THE HOUSING INDUSTRY WEIGH IN ONE MORE TIME TO SEE IF ANYTHING HERE IS, YOU KNOW, GONNA RAISE THE COST OF A HOUSE OR AN AN APARTMENT, YOU KNOW, 10 OR 20 OR 30% BY DOING IT.
AND I'LL ALWAYS LEAVE, UH, THIS ON THE AGENDA SO THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS THAT OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK AND, AND DISCUSS ANY ITEMS AT ANY OF THE MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE WITH THIS COMMITTEE.
YEAH, I, I JUST JACKIE, WE'LL JUST A QUICK QUESTION JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.
WHEN IT, WHEN WE HAVE THESE THAT SAY ALIGNS WITH A S H RRA 90.1 THAT'S RIGHT, ASHER, ARE THEY, YOU KNOW, WHEN WHICH ONE TAKES PRECEDENT? SO WHEN WE'RE IS WHEN WE'RE JUST TRYING TO LIKE MORE OF A HOUSEKEEPING OR CLEAN, JUST MAKING THEM CONSISTENT COORDINATION? UH, THAT'S, YEAH.
OVER THE YEARS THEY'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO MAKE THE ICE E C C CONSISTENT WITH ASHRA.
ASHRA IS ONE OPTION THAT THE DESIGN PROFESSIONALS CAN USE OTHER, RATHER THAN USING THIS BOOK.
SO TO MAKE THEM, THEY'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO MAKE THEM CONSISTENT.
ASHRA ALWAYS COMES OUT A YEAR EARLIER THAN THIS BOOK.
SO THEY'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO UPDATE THIS BOOK TO MATCH.
SO AN ITEM LIKE THIS IS MORE OF MAKING MORE CONSISTENCY.
AND ASHRAE HAS, HAS THEIR OWN PUBLIC HEARINGS AND SO IT GOES THROUGH THE KIND OF THE SAME PROCESSES AS THE I E C C.
SO ABOUT THE MECHANICAL ENGINEER PIECE, AGAIN, I, I I HEAR YOUR POINT MARK.
I GUESS MY CONCERN IS, UM, SORRY I'M REALLY CLOSE TO THE MICROPHONE.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK JUST HUMAN NATURE BEING WHAT IT IS, ONCE WE CLOSE THESE ITEMS OUT, I THINK IT'S, WE'RE LESS LIKELY TO COME BACK TO 'EM.
AND I THINK WE WOULD BENEFIT AS MUCH AS I, I WANNA GET THROUGH THESE AS MUCH AS ANYBODY, BUT I THINK IT, YOU KNOW, I I HATE TO JUST FINISH 'EM JUST FOR THE SAKE OF FINISHING 'EM, RATHER THAN HAVE THE INPUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE COMMITTEE AND THE BOARD IS DESIGNED TO HAVE INPUT FROM ALL THESE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, AREAS, UH, FOR A REASON.
AND I, AND I THINK WE MAYBE DO OURSELVES A DISSERVICE IF WE, YOU KNOW, IF WE MISS THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE SAKE OF, OF GETTING THE ROOM.
UM, CHAIR, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT ARE YOU GONNA TABLE TECHNICALLY ALL THE ITEMS? BECAUSE ANYTHING YOU APPROVE TODAY BASED ON YOUR COMMENT, TECHNICALLY IF SOME, ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER WANTS TO BRING IT UP, THEY CAN NEXT MEETING.
[00:35:01]
I'M MORE INCLINED WITH MR. ROSS'S COMMENT IS YOU GUYS GO THROUGH IT AND MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS.NEXT MEETING, ANY ADDITIONAL BOARD MEMBER CAN BRING AN OPEN ANY ITEMS IN ADDITION TO ME.
IN ADDITION, UH, THE FULL BOARD, THE FULL B UH, BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODE APPEALS HAS ANOTHER BITE AT THE APPLE.
'CAUSE WE'RE JUST MAKING OUR RECOMMENDATIONS TO THEM AND IF THEY WANT TO PULL SOMETHING, 'CAUSE WE HAVE BOTH MECHANICAL CONTRACTORS AND MECHANICAL ENGINEERS ON THAT ONE.
OR, AND THE SAME THING WITH ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS AND ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS.
SO WE HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY AT THE FULL BOARD, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT, THAT IS CORRECT.
I, I UNDERSTAND THAT I'M, I'M WILLING TO GO ALONG.
I, I MEAN I, YEAH, OBVIOUSLY WE CAN REOPEN ANYTHING.
I, I, BUT YEAH, I, I'LL DEFER TO THE, TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR AND THE, AND THE OTHER BOARD, UH, COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND WE'LL, WE'LL KEEP, WE'LL KEEP TRUCKING.
JUST THE, THE OTHER COMMENT I HAVE, IF, IF THERE'S A PROBLEM, UH, THE PEOPLE THAT WORK WITH THIS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS HERE AT THE CITY, THE CITY STAFF, I THINK THEY'RE GONNA RAISE A RED FLAG IF THERE'S A CONCERN ABOUT ANY OF THESE CHANGES OR AMENDMENTS BETWEEN THE BRAIN TRUST THAT'S HERE.
UH, I'M JUST GOING BACK TO THE ASHRAY REAL QUICK.
AS RICHARD MENTIONED, UM, THERE IS TWO OPTIONS.
THIS CODE, THE I E C C AND THEN ASHRAY.
A LOT OF DESIGN FOLKS BASICALLY LIKE TO FOLLOW THE ASHRAY JUST BECAUSE THEY USED IT FOR A LONG TIME.
AND THIS BOOK ACTUALLY REFERENCED THE ASHRA.
SO, UH, EVERY YEAR, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CODE, EVERY YEAR THEY PUBLISH NEW CODE, LIKE 2018, DID THE SAME THING, 2015, AND NOW 2021.
THEY TRY TO ADOPT AS MUCH AS THEY CAN FROM ASHRA.
IF THE COMMITTEE THAT WENT THROUGH THIS BOOK AND THE PUBLIC HEARINGS AGREE ON IT, THEY TRY TO ADOPT IT JUST TO KIND OF TRY TO MATCH THOSE TWO CODES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
SO A LOT OF CHANGES YOU ARE SEEING TODAY, THEY'RE MAINLY JUST TRYING TO CATCH UP WITH ASHRAE, IF YOU WILL.
SO I THINK WE JUST FINISHED ITEM 15.
WE'RE ON TO 16, IS THAT RIGHT? YES.
OR DID I MISS 15? NO, NUMBER 16.
SO NUMBER 16 IS A CHANGE TO THE FAN EFFICIENCY.
IT'S REWRITTEN TO PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION ON THE STANDARDS AND PROVIDES ADDITIONAL EXCEPTIONS.
UH, THE OLD, THE OLD FAN, THE OLD FAN METRIC, UH, EFFICIENCY METRIC WAS THE FAN EFFICIENCY GRADE, WHICH IS KIND OF BEING PHASED OUT.
UM, THE WORLD'S GOING TO THE FAN ENERGY INDEX WHEN THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY'S DOING THE SAME.
AND SO IT'S JUST KIND OF UPDATING IT TO THAT NEW STANDARD.
ITEM 17 WAS A CHANGE TO C 4 0 3 POINT 11 FOR REFRIGERATION EQUIPMENT PERFORMANCE.
UM, IT REALLY JUST PROVIDES MORE CLARITY TO THE STANDARDS FOR EQUIPMENT.
UM, AND AGAIN, IS UPDATED PER THE, UH, FOR FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS.
WE DIDN'T SEE THIS AS A COST INCREASE.
UH, HEARING NOTHING WILL GO TO 18.
NUMBER 18, THIS WAS A CHANGE TO C 4 0 3 POINT 12.1 FOR DUCT AND PLENUM INSULATION.
SO IT, IT NOW ADDRESSES UNDERGROUND DUCTS AND DUPLICATES THE REQUIREMENTS FOR DUCTS IN UNCONDITIONED SPACES.
SO IT HAS TO HAVE THE R EIGHT INSULATION, WHICH IS JUST BASICALLY MEANS THAT IT HAS TO BE WRAPPED.
ITEM 19, PLEASE SEE MIKE, I TOLD YOU WE CAPTURED ALL THE CHANGES.
4 0 3 POINT 14 FOR OPERABLE OPENING INTERLOCKING CONTROLS.
SO THIS WAS ADDED TO INCREASE EFFICIENCY FOR OPERABLE OPENING.
WELL, FOR THOSE OPERABLE OPENINGS, IT, IT REQUIRES THEM TO BE INTERLOCKED.
SO BASICALLY WHEN THE WINDOW OPENS, THE AIR CONDITION SHUTS UP OR HEATING.
[00:40:01]
THESE, WHEN YOU HAVE ROLL UP DOORS IN LOADING DOCK AREAS, UM, AND THE TEMPERATURE'S PRETTY MILD, IT ALLOW, IT BASICALLY SHUTS OFF THE H V A C RIGHT THERE IN THAT AREA BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON'T NEED IT.AND THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE ENERGY WITH THESES ROLLING WITH THESE DOORS OPEN, WHICH ARE OPEN A LOT.
SO IF THE TEMPERATURES ARE EITHER TOO HOT OR TOO COLD OUTSIDE, THEN IT'LL, IT CAN ALLOW THE H V A C TO KICK ON EVEN IF THE WINDOW OF THOSE ROLL UP DOORS ARE OPEN.
SO THIS, RICHARD, LET ME HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON YOUR COMMENT.
IS THAT BECAUSE ON SOME DOORS, LIKE DOCK DOORS, THEY ROLL UP AND THEY STAY OPEN FOR A WHILE, BUT A LOT OF CAR DEALERSHIPS, WHEN YOU PULL UP INTO THE SERVICE, THEY HAVE HIGH SPEED DOORS, THEY'LL GO UP AND, UH, AND COME BACK DOWN ONCE A CAR'S THROUGH.
IT'S ALL DONE IN LESS THAN 30 SECONDS.
SO IS THIS REQUIREMENT, UH, CONTINGENT ON THE TYPE OF DOOR OR ALL DOORS? SO I'LL, I'LL STEP IN HERE.
UM, SO THIS REFERENCES BACK TO ANOTHER SECTION.
SO THE OPENING IS 40 SQUARE FEET IN AREA.
THE CHANGE IN HEATING AND COOLING SET POINT SHALL OCCUR WITHIN 10 MINUTES OF OPENING THE OPERABLE OPENING.
SO THERE'S A SIZE, UH, COMPONENT AND THEN A, A TIMING COMPONENT AS WELL.
IF THE DOOR'S ONLY OPEN FOR 30 SECONDS, THIS WOULDN'T APPLY.
WE GOOD? UH, 20 ITEM 20 PLEASE.
THAT'S AN EXISTING CITY AMENDMENT TO C 4 0, 4 0.6 0.1.
SO WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP THIS CURRENT AMENDMENT AND JUST UPDATE IT TO REFLECT THE 2021 LANGUAGE.
IT ADDS ANOTHER OPTION FOR COMPLIANCE FOR HOT WATER SYSTEM PUMPS.
SO THE BLACK UNDERLINED LANGUAGE, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE ADDED.
YOU'LL SEE THE BLUE I THE BLUE LANGUAGE THAT STRUCK OUT THAT IS UPDATED TO MATCH THE 2021 LANGUAGE.
THAT'S A NEW SECTION FOR ATRIUMS. C 4 0 5 2 4 4.
IT IDENTIFIES THE ATRIUM DAYLIGHT ZONES.
UM, AND THERE'S A NEW FIGURE IN THIS, UH, 2021.
THIS IS A CHANGE TO C 4 0 5 0.2 0.7 0.3 FOR LIGHTING SETBACK.
THIS WAS CHANGED TO INCREASE EFFICIENCY.
UM, CONTROLS LIGHTING TO AUTOMATICALLY REDUCE BY AT LEAST 50% BY DAYLIGHT SENSORS OR MOTION.
NOW THIS IS FOR EXTERIOR LIGHTING, SO GENERALLY PARKING LOT LIGHTING.
SO THIS IS FOR PARKING LOT LIGHTING.
BUT I THINK FOR COMMERCIAL IT'S OFTEN THE EXTERIOR BUILDING LIGHTS ON THE BUILDING OR IN THE PARKING LOT.
SO JUST WITHOUT HAVING TO READ IT AT NIGHT, IT'S OKAY FOR ALL THE LIGHTS TO BE ON.
IT JUST NEEDS TO HAVE A DAYLIGHT SENSOR THAT SHUTS THE LIGHTS OFF.
WELL, IT JUST DIMMS THEM TO 50% IF THERE'S NO OCCUPANTS.
SINCE, IF IT'S NOT CENSORING SENSING ANY OCCUPANTS, I MEAN ONE DANGER, YOU KNOW, THAT I I, I'D LIKE TO GET THIS TABLE TO GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM THE BUILDING PEOPLE BECAUSE THERE'S A SECURITY, I, I KNOW THERE'S AN ENERGY CONCERN, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE, UH, LITIGATION AND ONE OF THOSE, UH, AREAS OF LITIGATION IS POOR LIGHTING OR DEFICIENT LIGHTING AND IT
[00:45:01]
DIMMS IT TO 50%, WHICH MEANS THE BRIGHT PARKING LOT MAY NOW BE DARK AND SOMEBODY GETS RAPED IN THE PARKING LOT AND THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING GETS SUED BECAUSE THERE WAS INSUFFICIENT LIGHTING.I THINK WE JUST NEED TO GET SOME FEEDBACK BEFORE WE ADOPT THIS.
BECAUSE CURRENTLY THAT'S NOT IN THE CODE, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
UM, CRYSTAL, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION.
THIS ROBERT HANLEY AGAIN IS HOW DOES THIS SECTION WHERE THE EXTERIOR LIGHTING THAT MR. CHAMBERLAIN'S TALKING ABOUT, UH, COINCIDE WITH THE DARK SKIES INITIATIVES AND THE U D C AMENDMENTS? SEE, IN OTHER WORDS, C P S WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE AS A MINIMUM KELVIN RATING FOR STREETLIGHTS, BUT THEN YOU HAVE, UH, PRIVATE PROPERTY LIGHTING STANDARDS.
AND I'M JUST WONDERING, THIS WAS FOR RESIDENTIAL, FOR COMMERCIAL.
UH, I'M, I'M WONDERING HOW WE'VE COORDINATED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO DIFFERENT BODIES OF, OF, UH, COATS.
SO WE SO REQUIRE COMPLIANCE WITH THE MILITARY LIGHTING OVERLAY.
UM, SO THAT'S A VERY SPECIFIC ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES THE, THE DOWN LIGHTING AND THE BUG RATING AND ALL OF THAT, UM, WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH, WITH BOTH, RIGHT? SO WE'RE STILL, UM, IF YOU'RE REDUCING THE LIGHTING, YOU'RE ONLY COMPLYING MORE WITH THE, WITH THE MILITARY LIGHTING REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO THIS, THIS SECTION THAT WE'RE WE'RE DISCUSSING, IT SAYS LIGHTING THAT IS NOT CONTROLLED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT SECTION ABOVE THE C 4 0 5 2 7 2, WHICH OH, THAT I WAS LOOKING AT THE WRONG SECTION.
UM, SO THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS TO COMPLY WITH THIS, RIGHT? SO REDUCE THE LIGHTING FROM NOT LATER THE MIDNIGHT TO NOT EARLIER THAN SIX, RIGHT? SO THAT IS PART OF THAT DAYLIGHT, DAYLIGHT SENSOR, THE BUSINESS HOURS.
SO YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ONE OF THOSE ITEMS. SO IT COULD BE BUSINESS HOURS OR THOSE TIMEFRAMES OR NO ACTIVITY.
SO I THINK THERE'S MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE OPTIONS TO COMPLY WITH ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TIMES.
BUT I'M STILL, I AM STILL VERY CONCERNED ABOUT LITIGATION THAT RESULTS FROM LACK OF LIGHT BECAUSE I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN CASES WHERE THE PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEYS GO OUT WITH THE LIGHT METER AND TEST IT AND, AND THEN THE POLICE COME OUT AND TELL YOU YOUR PARKING LOT'S TOO DARK.
YOU KNOW, AND THEN AT THAT POINT YOU'RE BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE.
AND I JUST THINK WE SHOULD GET SOME FEEDBACK.
YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T DISAGREE MARK.
AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE WENT THROUGH THIS EXERCISE FOR, UM, OUR BUILDINGS TRYING TO FIND THESE LIGHTS THAT, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY FOR CARPORTS THAT CHANGE THEIR BRIGHTNESS BASED ON ACTIVITY AND THEY'RE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE.
UM, I THINK IN OUR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, HOUSING, YOU KNOW, WE, OUR BUSINESS IS NEVER CLOSED, SO WE WOULD NOT HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, APARTMENTS WOULDN'T HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THIS.
BUT, UM, PROBABLY FOR OTHER COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET THEIR, UM, THEIR FEEDBACK, UM, BEFORE WE BEFORE.
SO I'D SUPPORT TABLING IT TO, TO GET SOME, SOME INPUT.
AND I MEAN, BECAUSE THE ENERGY USAGE IS A BIG EXPENSE, SO IT'S NOT TRYING TO SAVE MONEY, BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GO OUT TO A, UH, STRIP CENTER OR SOMETHING THAT THE PARKING LOT IS VERY DARK AND YOU KNOW, OR A PARKING LOT AT A UNIVERSITY THAT YOU KNOW WHERE THINGS ARE, ACTIVITIES ARE GOING ON 24 7 'CAUSE THEY GO TO THE LABS AND STUFF AT ALL WEIRD HOURS OF THE NIGHT TO COME BACK TO A PARKING LOT THAT IS DARK OR A CITY GARAGE.
YOU KNOW, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO BE, DO SOME RISK ASSESSMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SAVINGS OF ENERGY IS WORTH THE RISK TO SOMEBODY'S LIFE AND SAFETY.
BUT WORTH POINTING OUT THOUGH, THAT JUST BECAUSE THE PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEYS THINK IT'S A PROBLEM DOESN'T MEAN THERE REALLY IS THEY'LL SUE ANYBODY FOR ANYTHING.
YEAH, I THINK WE'LL TABLE 22 AND THEN ASK THE BOMA PEOPLE I GUESS IS A GOOD GROUP TO, UM, TO GET SOME, SOME FEEDBACK ON MARK.
IS THAT KINDA WHO YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT? YEAH, MAYBE THE, UH, SHOPPING CENTER PEOPLE AS WELL AS POSSIBLY THE CITY'S RISK DEPARTMENT.
'CAUSE Y'ALL OWN A LOT OF PARKING LOTS THAT HAVE LIGHTS IN THEM.
THE IT MARK, ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT ALWAYS COMES UP IF YOU ARE TRYING TO REDUCE THE,
[00:50:01]
UH, UH, ELECTRICITY ON LIGHTS IS PEOPLE GO, WELL THEN YOU HAVE TO ADD MORE SO YOU CONSUME MORE ENERGY.SO THIS IS A VERY DELICATE BALANCING ACT ABOUT BEING ENERGY CONSCIOUS AND ALSO BE BEING GOOD STEWARDS OF YOUR TENANTS IN YOUR BUILDINGS, UH, THAT THEY FEEL SECURE.
I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE SOME MORE DIALOGUE WITH THAT.
UM, BUT I, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF HARD DAMNED IF YOU DO, DAMNED IF YOU DON'T YEAH.
ON THIS THING, AND THAT'S A TOUGH ISSUE.
AND THEN ALSO, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE'VE ALL GONE FROM, YOU KNOW, HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM OR METAL HAYLIGHT LIGHTS TO L E D, YOU KNOW, AND A LOT OF THE L E D LIGHTS DO NOT OPERATE REALLY WELL AT REDUCED POWER.
AND SO AS THEY'RE DIMED, SO I THINK, YEAH, SO WE'VE TABLED 22 AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO 23, WHICH SEEMS TO BE A SIMILAR, SIMILAR ITEM.
SO 23 IS VERY SIMILAR, AND THIS IS SPECIFIC FOR PARKING GARAGES AND LIGHTING CONTROLS.
THIS IS A NEW SECTION THAT STATES THAT THE LIGHTING POWER SHALL BE AUTOMATICALLY REDUCED BY NOT LESS THAN 30% WHEN THERE'S NO ACTIVITY DETECTED WITHIN THAT LIGHTING ZONE FOR 20 MINUTES.
I ASSUME WE'RE GONNA TABLE THAT FOR INPUT FROM BOTH ALL.
WELL, IT'S, IT'S A DIFFERENT ANIMAL, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT BECAUSE IT'S, UH, PARKING STRUCTURES AND, UH, IT'S GOT A WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING FOR BY USING A TIMER OR AN OCCUPANT SENSOR ABOUT HOW YOU CONTROL IT.
BUT, UM, UNLESS YOU HAVE A LOT OF PARKING STRUCTURES THAT YOU'RE MULTIFAMILY, I'M, I DON'T SEE ANY YEAH, THEY DO.
I MEAN, BASICALLY EVERY NEW GARDEN, EVERYTHING THAT'S BEING BUILT NOW HAS A PARKING STRUCTURE EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T SEE IT BECAUSE IT'S IN THE INTERIOR ENVELOPE OF THE BUILDING.
SO ANYTHING THAT'S, MOST OF THE STUFF YOU SEE GOING UP THAT'S FOUR STORIES HAS THAT.
SO THE RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS ONE IS, YEAH, I MEAN, I I I MIGHT AGREE WITH ROBERT, THIS IS KIND OF A DIFFERENT THING.
I THINK WE CAN ADDRESS THIS IN THIS GROUP.
I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S PROBABLY WORTH GETTING THEIR INPUT.
UH, WE CAN ALWAYS REVISIT IT WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER ONE.
IF WE HAVE OTHER DISCUSSION THAT WE WANT TO HAVE.
I MEAN, AGAIN, I REPEAT MY, MY CONCERN ON THIS, THAT THOSE, THOSE LIGHTS WHERE THEY AUTOMATICALLY DIM, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT COST DIFFERENCE.
UM, AND THEY DON'T ALWAYS WORK THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.
'CAUSE WE'VE EXPERIMENTED WITH A LOT OF 'EM.
THE COST BENEFIT OF THOSE IS, IS, IS, UM, REALLY HARD TO PREDICT.
UM, AND I DO THINK THERE'S A SAFETY COMPONENT TO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A REASON YOU LIKE GARAGES.
UM, AND, UH, I'M NOT SURE THAT I REALLY LIKE HAVING THIS ONE ADOPTED.
CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? I'M JUST KIDDING.
WELL, IT'S THE L E D IT'S, IT'S THE COLOR RANGE.
IT GOES FROM A FOUR KV OR 4,100 K, UH, OF KELVIN TO A 3000 OR A 2,700.
SO THE, IT'S NOT MARKED A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE ON THAT.
YOU, YOU CHANGE THE COLOR RENDITION OF THE LIGHTING WITH THE LEDS DEPENDING ON WHAT KEL IT IS.
UH, ANYWAY, SO WE'RE TABLING 22 AND 23, CORRECT? MIKE? NO, I HADN'T, I DON'T THINK WE DECIDED TO TABLE 23.
I MEAN, I'M, I'M WILLING TO, BUT I, UM, TABLE, I I THINK YOU WANT TO TAKE 23 OUT TABLING IS ONE THING.
THAT'S WHAT MIKE WAS SUGGESTING.
BUT IF, IF EVERYBODY ELSE WANTS TO TABLE IT, THIS IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP, I'M HAPPY TO TABLE IT.
WELL, THIS IS, I MEAN, THIS IS JUST ADDING THE OCCUPANCY SENSOR IN THERE, RIGHT? SO ONCE SOMEBODY WALKS INTO THE GARAGE, THEN THE OCCU THEN THE LIGHTS ARE AT FULL POWER.
SO THIS IS JUST REDUCING THEM WHEN THERE'S NO ACTIVITY FOR 20 MINUTES.
SO AGAIN, JUST THE, THE POWER SAVINGS WHEN
[00:55:01]
SOMEBODY WALKS INTO A ROOM, THE LIGHTS COME ON, RIGHT? WHEN SOMEBODY'S WALKING INTO THE GARAGE STEPS OUT OF THE STAIRWELL OR THE ELEVATOR, THE LIGHTS COME BACK ON OR NOT, THEY'RE NOT EVEN OFF, RIGHT? I DIDN'T MEAN THAT TO INSINUATE THAT THE LIGHTS ARE THEN AGAIN AT FULL POWER.WELL, BECAUSE, WELL, BECAUSE A, THEY, THOSE SENSORS DON'T, YOU KNOW, GROW IN THE, IN THE, ON THE PROVERBIAL TREE, YOU KNOW, AND B UM, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY WORK AS WELL AS, AS WHAT YOU'VE, WHAT YOU'VE SAID.
NO, BUT I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
WE HAVE A PLACE THAT HAS THE SENSORS WHERE THE LIGHTS COME ON AND OFF BY SENSORS.
AND TO GET IT TO TRIGGER, YOU HAVE TO GET WAFER DOWN A HALL OR INTO AN AREA TO GET THEM TO COME ON.
AND, AND SO BASICALLY YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOME KIND OF MOTION SENSOR WITH EVERY LIGHT FIXTURE.
WE ARE REALLY BAD AT TABLING ITEMS. I GOTTA SAY
NO, I, SO I MEAN, MARK, I AGREE WITH YOU.
I, I MEAN, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, PART OF IT IS, UM, MY EXPERIENCE AND I'LL JUST, MY EXPERIENCE ON THIS IS HAVING, UH, BUILDINGS AND NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE I WANT, I WANT IT LIT UP LIKE, LIKE CHRISTMAS ALL THE TIME FOR THE SAFETY OF EVERYBODY.
UM, AND A LOT OF THINGS CAN HAP BAD THINGS HAPPEN IN THE DARK ORDER AND REDUCE LIGHT, AND THOSE SENSORS DON'T ALWAYS WORK.
BUT ANYWAY, WE'VE DECIDED WE WANTED TO TABLE IT.
AND YEAH, IT'S PARKING GARAGE.
SO ITEM NUMBER 24, WE WILL HAVE A, WE HAVE, WE WILL HAVE ACCOMPLISHED TABLING ITEM 24 OR 23 AND MOVE ON TO 24.
OKAY, NUMBER 24, THAT'S A NEW SECTION.
UH, C 4 0 5 0.4 LIGHTING FOR PLANT GROWTH AND MAINTENANCE.
ANY CONCERNS HERE? ALL RIGHT, WE'LL PROVE 24, MOVE TO 25.
NUMBER 25 IS AN EXISTING CITY AMENDMENT TO WHAT IS NOW C 4 0 5 0.6.
THIS IS FOR DWELLING ELECTRICAL METERS.
IT SPECIFIES THAT THE REQUIREMENT IS FOR R TWO MULTI-FAMILY BUILDINGS.
SO WE SPECIFY MULTI-FAMILY BUILDINGS.
UM, JASMINE HAS THE LANGUAGE UP ON THE SCREEN.
YOU SEE THE UNDERLINED, THE BLACK UNDERLINED TEXT.
SO THIS WOULD EXCLUDE LIKE DORMITORIES BOARDING HOMES, MONASTERIES, MONASTERIES.
YEAH, I, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THIS.
ANYBODY ELSE? OKAY, WE'LL MOVE ON TO 26 26.
THANK YOU FOR ADDING THE PAGE NUMBERS.
SO THIS IS ENERGY RECOVERY RECOVERY FOR ESCALATORS.
AND I WILL NOTE THAT THE RAA, UM, CROSSES OUT THAT LAST SENTENCE.
SO THERE'S ONLY TWO SENTENCES.
THE ERR ERA ACTUALLY CROSSES OUT THAT LAST SENTENCE.
SO WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT THAT ONE SENTENCE.
ARE YOU GUYS GOOD WITH THIS ONE? THIS IS, IT IS JUST SPECIFIC TO ESCALATORS.
SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? I, I MEAN, DOES THIS MEAN THAT THEY NEED, NEED BATTER, LIKE THERE'S A BATTERY OR DOES IT JUST, IS IT LIKE IN AN ELECTRIC CAR WHEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE REGENERATIVE BRAKING HAPPENS, IT PRODUCES ELECTRICITY AND WHERE DOES IT GO AND WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS WITH IT? I THINK THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING WHEN THE ESCALATORS, THEY'RE TRYING TO SLOW THE SPEED DOWN THAT CAN RECOVER THAT ENERGY AND PUT IT BACK INTO THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM.
I GUESS BATTERY, RIGHT? THAT COULD JUST, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE BATTERY ITSELF, BUT NO, IT'S, IT,
[01:00:04]
IN OTHER WORDS, I TYPICALLY, OKAY.UM, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THANK YOU AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO 27.
NUMBER 27, THIS IS A CHANGE TO C 4 0 5 POINT 10 FOR VOLTAGE DROP.
CRYSTAL, THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY.
WHAT IS CURRENT IN THE CODE? OR IS THIS BRAND NEW LANGUAGE? SO THIS IS A CHANGE THEY HAVE, UM, THEY HAVE ADDED IN THE CUSTOMER OWNED SERVICE CONDUCTORS.
WHAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT? IS THIS ADDRESSED IN THE ELECTRICAL CODE? N E C? I'M, I'M NOT SURE OF THAT.
SO THIS, THIS IS AN EXISTING SECTION.
IT JUST SPECIFIES THAT IT'S ACROSS THE, UM, CUSTOMER OWNED SERVICE CONDUCTORS.
NOW THE COMMENTARY SAYS IT'S CONSISTENT WITH 90.1 AND THE N E C, IT WAS ORIGINALLY IN THE N E C AND THEY'RE BRINGING IT INTO THE I E C C, IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
THIS IS A NEW SECTION, AUTOMATIC RECEPTACLE CONTROL C 4 0 5 POINT 11.
SO IT SPECIFIES THAT AT LEAST 50% OF THE RECEPTACLES AND 25% OF BRANCH CIRCUIT FEEDERS MUST BE AUTOMATICALLY CONTROLLED RECEPTACLES BY MEAN BY TWO METHODS.
CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT THE PRACTICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THAT IS? SO THIS BE WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR COFFEE POT PLUGGED IN, YOU DON'T TURN OFF THE KEURIG, AND SO IT'LL AUTOMATICALLY SHUT DOWN.
ALL RIGHT, SO NOW YOU'RE MESSING ME WITH MY COFFEE.
SO I'D HAVE TO REPROGRAM MY COFFEE MAKER EVERY TIME.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT RESETS IT, IT WOULD JUST TURN OFF.
ANYWAY, AFTER WHEN I LEAVE MY COFFEE MAKER PLUG IN, IT REMINDS ME OF WHAT TIME IT IS IN THE MORNING AND CAN AUTOMATICALLY START MAKING MY COFFEE.
I JUST, I THINK ONCE WE START MESSING WITH THE COFFEE MACHINES, WE, WE RUN INTO PROBLEMS. BAD EXAMPLE,
NOW I THINK WE DISCUSSED THIS DURING THE ELECTRICAL N E C CODE COMMITTEES.
UH, THESE ARE THE, UH, I WANNA SAY THESE ARE THE OUTLETS WHERE IT'D BE ONE OF THE TWO.
IF YOU KINDA HAD YOUR NORMAL TWO OUTLET, ONE OF THEM WOULD TURN OFF, BUT THE OTHER ONE WOULDN'T.
AND IT'S MORE OF A, IT'S THERE FOR THE ENERGY SAVINGS, BUT IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF KIND OF LESSONS LEARNED ON WHICH ONES YOU CAN PLUG INTO FOR SPECIFIC ITEMS. ITEMS THAT YOU DON'T MIND BEING TURNED OFF WHEN YOU'RE NOT PRESENT, LIKE YOUR REFRIGERATOR, IT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY TURN OFF.
YOU WOULD ALWAYS LEAVE YOUR REFRIGERATOR, COFFEE MAKER, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT YOU WANNA MAKE SURE IT TURN PLUGGED IN WHEN YOU'RE NOT THERE INTO THE ONES THAT ARE ON, BUT THEN THE OTHER ONES WOULD TURN OFF.
SO IT BASICALLY MAKES EVERY OUTLET A HALF HOT, MORE OR LESS.
WHEN WHEN NOT PRESENT, WHEN IT'S TIED INTO A CONTROL SYSTEM.
SO CURRENTLY ALL THE PLUGS IN A COMMERCIAL BUILDING NOW CAN BE HOT.
THE ONLY THING THAT HAS TO BE ON THOSE TIMER THINGS ARE THE LIGHTS.
CORRECT? I BELIEVE THIS IS NEW TO THE CODE.
SO HOW DOES THE PERSON WHO IS OCCUPYING THE SPACE FOR THE FIRST TIME KNOW WHICH IS WHAT, HOW DO YOU TURN THE OUTLET BACK ON? YEAH.
HOW DO YOU TURN THE OUTLET ON WHEN YOU'RE
[01:05:01]
SITTING THERE FOR A HALF AN HOUR TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY YOUR COMPUTER'S NOT CHARGING? YEAH, NO, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S JUST, I MEAN, DOES IT REALLY, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF CURVE COMING TO THE FRONT.UM, PART OF THIS REQUIREMENT IS ACTUALLY ACTUALLY HAVING THOSE OUTLETS LABELED AS WELL.
BUT AS MARK, MARK SAYS, IF LET'S SAY THAT YOU HAVE A SOMETHING AND IT GOES OFF ACCORDANCE WITH ITS AUTOMATIC RECEPTACLE CONTROL RATES OR, AND YOU COME IN AND YOU WANT TO PLUG IN A VACUUM CLEANER OR YOU WANNA PLUG IN YOUR COMPUTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, HOW DO YOU TURN THE RECEPTACLE BACK ON? IT'S TIED INTO A CONTROL SYSTEM.
SO IT SHOULD BE, YOU GOTTA WALK ALL THE WAY DOWN TO SOMEWHERE THAT'S HIT BEHIND THAT HOLE.
IS IT IN THE CAMERA? YOU KNOW, LIKE THE G F I, YOU KNOW, BLOWS IT OUT AND YOU PUSH THE BUTTON AND IT RESTARTS IT.
IS THE RECEPTACLE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? NO, IT SHOULD BE TIED TO AN AUTOMATIC SENSOR THAT ONCE YOU'RE IN THAT AREA, IT AUTOMATICALLY BACK HOME.
JUST LIKE THE LIGHTING SYSTEM.
BUT ON THE LIGHTING SYSTEM, NOR, A LOT OF TIMES IT'S ON A CONTROL THAT'S LOCATED SOMEWHERE NEAR THE PANEL THAT SHUTS OFF THE OVERHEAD LIGHTS AND IT, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ON AN OCCUPANCY SENSOR, IT'S ON A TIMER, BUT WHEN YOU WALK BACK IN THE ROOM, IT COMES BACK ON.
THAT WOULD BE THE INTENT OF THIS CONTROL IS THAT IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO GO BACK ON.
IT SHOULD AUTOMATICALLY TURN ON.
IT'S, WHAT IT'S LOOKING FOR IS THAT THOSE OUTLET OUTLETS BE TURNED OFF WHEN NOBODY'S PRESENT BECAUSE DURING THE N E C UH, DISCUSSION THEY TALKED ABOUT, THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF LOSS OF VOLTAGE FROM THOSE OUTLETS BEING JUST ACTIVE AT THAT TIME, EVEN WITHOUT HAVING SOMETHING PLUGGED IN.
SO IT'S TRYING TO JUST REDUCE THOSE OUTLETS.
SO THIS IS WHERE WE RUN INTO SOME OF MY PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH SOME THINGS THAT COME FROM THIS SPECIFIC CODE BOOK, RIGHT? UM, THE REST OF THE CODE ITEMS WE LOOK AT IMPROVE, YOU KNOW, THE SAFETY OF THE BUILDING, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING IN THIS BOOK ADDS COST.
I MEAN, EVERYTHING IN EVERY BOOK ADDS COST, BUT EVERYTHING IN THIS PARTICULAR BOOK ADDS COST.
I JUST WONDER IF THIS TYPE OF OPERATION, HOW MUCH ENERGY ARE WE REALLY SAVING, YOU KNOW, IN, IN RELATION TO THE AGGRAVATION AND EXTRA COST THAT WE'RE BUILDING INTO EVERY NEW OFFICE SPACE? I JUST, I'M VERY SKEPTICAL OF THINGS LIKE THIS.
AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, I'M THINKING BACK TO MY TIME IN THE SERVICE, YOU KNOW, ON, ON STAFF DUTY WHEN YOU TRY TO SLEEP THROUGH THE NIGHT AND THE, THE ROOM'S ON A LIGHT SENSOR AND EVERY TIME YOU MOVE YOUR ARM, THE LIGHT COMES BACK ON AND WAKES YOU UP ANYWAY, THE, LIKE, THE SENSORS NEVER WORK THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK.
YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY FRUSTRATING.
UH, YOU KNOW, MIKE, ONE OF THE THINGS IS, IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT IT AS INITIAL CAPITAL COST, YES THERE'S AN EXPENSE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT AS A LIFECYCLE COST OVER THE LONG TERM OF WHAT YOU'RE SAVING IN ENERGY, WHAT IS THE COST? AND SO I THINK THE ENERGY CODE'S ALWAYS SORT OF LOOKING AT THE LIFECYCLE COST INSTEAD OF THE INITIAL CAPITAL COST.
AND SO ON THAT ONE, YOU GO, YES, WHAT DOES IT COST ME? ANOTHER 1%, 2%, 3%, BUT OVER FIVE, 10 YEARS DOES IT SAVE ME FIVE OR 10%? AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE PREMISE OF THE ENERGY CODE.
I, AND I, AND I GET THAT AND THAT'S DEVELOPS THAT STUFF.
IF THAT ONE OR TWO, 3% MAKE IT WHERE THE PROJECT DOESN'T GET BUILT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE ISSUE.
BUT THE OTHER ISSUE I HAVE IS IN BUILDINGS, FOR EXAMPLE, MY COMPUTER IS PLUGGED IN, TURNED ON 24 7 BECAUSE I WAKE UP AT TWO O'CLOCK OR THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND CAN'T SLEEP AND I'LL START WORKING AND I REMOTELY LOG INTO MY COMPUTER.
AND, AND IF I HAD TO FIGURE OUT WHICH PLUG DOES WHAT OR BECAUSE IT TAKES MORE THAN ONE PLUG TO SERVICE THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE WORKING REMOTELY NOW A LOT AND THEY'RE WORKING ALL OVER, OR SOMETHING IS PLUGGED IN THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT CHARGER OVERNIGHT SO THAT IN THE MORNING EVERYTHING THAT I NEED CHARGED IS WORKING.
BUT IF IT HAS A SENSOR AND IT SENSES YOU, IT'S COMING.
THERE'S NOBODY IN MY OFFICE, I'M AT HOME.
I, AND, AND MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE WORKING REMOTELY WHO HAVE OFFICES AND I, I JUST THINK THE, YOU KNOW, THE COST TO YOUR EQUIPMENT OF, YOU KNOW, NOT, YOU KNOW, THE ELECTRICITY GOING OFF BECAUSE YOU ACCIDENTALLY PLUGGED YOUR COMPUTER IN THE WRONG PLACE AND THEN YOU CAN'T GET BACK ON IT, AND NOW YOU HAVE TO DRIVE ALL THE WAY TO WORK TO RESTART YOUR COMPUTER AND MOVE THE PLUG.
YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK, AND THAT'S A SPECIFIC INSTANCE.
I, YOU KNOW, AND I AGREE WITH THAT, MARK, AND, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK MORE IN GENERAL, WHEN YOU THE CAL TRYING TO CALCULATE THE LIFECYCLE SAVINGS ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHEN A, ALL THE CAPITAL COSTS IS IMMEDIATE, LIKE THOSE COSTS ARE TANGIBLE AND IMMEDIATE.
THE, THE LIFECYCLE SAVINGS ARE, ARE NEGLIGIBLE AND, UM, ETHEREAL IN, IN A WAY, UM, AND DEPEND ON THE SENSORS WORKING AND NOT BEING REPLACED AND NOT HAVING TO BE, YOU KNOW, THIS
[01:10:01]
REDONE THE, THE, THE COST OF THE FRUSTRATION OF LIVING A WORLD.AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT, HOW MUCH, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY CONSUMED IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, WHAT PERCENTAGE IS BEING SAVED IN, IN, IN A, IN SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO MAKE IT WORTH, UM, THE INCREASE IN, IN TENANCY COST, UM, THAT DOES IS BASED ON THE INITIAL CAPITAL OUTLAY AND NOT ON THE, NOT ON THE SAVINGS.
WELL, WE HAVE THE, UH, THE, UH, THE DATA TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
AND OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T JUST GO LOOK ON GOOGLE AND FIND IT, BUT, UH, I'VE BEEN WATCHING AND ASSISTING IN LIFECYCLE COSTS FOR 10, 12 YEARS AND THERE IS A, A MEASURABLE AMOUNT OF SAVINGS.
AND WE'VE DONE THIS IN THE PAST WITH H V A C UNITS, ROOFTOP UNITS WITH A VERSUS A MINI CHILLER.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR BT, SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT HISTORICALLY YOU CAN SHOW OVER A PERIOD OF FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS THAT LIFECYCLE COSTS ARE A FACTOR LONG TERM.
IF YOU'RE JUST BUILDING SOMETHING TO GET IT LEASED UP AND THEN FLIP IT, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.
BUT IF IT'S A USER BUILDING AND YOU'RE GONNA BE IN THERE, YOU WANT THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM YOU CAN.
THAT'S, U S A STARTED THAT YEARS AGO ABOUT, THEY'RE AN OWNER BUILDING, SO THEY WANT THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM THEY CAN.
AND SO THAT LITTLE, I'M STILL, I'M OF THE CONTENTION THAT THAT LITTLE BIT OF INITIAL CAPITAL COST, UH, VERSUS THE SAVINGS YOU'LL GET FROM THAT, UH, IT, THE LIFECYCLE COST HAS TO BE CONSIDERED.
BUT IF IT'S A, IT'S A, IF IT'S A BUILD FLIP, THEN IT DOESN'T REALLY WELL, AND, BUT EVEN IF IT'S NOT A BUILD AND FLIP, I MEAN, IT, IT'S STILL, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL HAVE TO BUILD IT AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE MONEY ON IT, AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA, YOU KNOW, THE, THE NEGLIGIBLE SAVINGS.
AND I'M SURE THERE ARE SAVINGS, BUT, AND AGAIN, IF THE SAVINGS ARE THAT GOOD, YOU DON'T NEED TO PUT IT IN A CODE, THEY'RE GONNA DO IT WELL.
BUT I WOULD ALSO SAY THE CONSUMER IS PRETTY SMART.
SO ONCE THEY FIGURE OUT THAT SWITCH DOESN'T WORK PART OF THE NIGHT, THEY'RE JUST GONNA GO BUY A EXTENSION CORD THAT HAS A MULTI THING OR JUST REPLACE THE, OR JUST REPLACE THE RECEPTACLE
UH, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF THE SAME DIALOGUE WHEN THEY STARTED PUTTING OVERHEAD LIGHT FIXTURES AND OFFICE BUILDINGS ON A, UH, ON SENSORS.
NO, BUT I, EVERYBODY FOUGHT THAT, BUT IT, NOW EVERYBODY SEES THE ADVANTAGE TO IT, SO IT'S SOMETHING NEW.
AND PEOPLE, WE ARE ALL CREATURES OF HABIT AND CHANGES.
I, I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST IF WE'RE GONNA LEAVE THIS, THAT YOU EXEMPT OUT R TWO BECAUSE I DON'T WANT PLUGS IN AN APARTMENT NOT TO BE WORKING OR TO BE CONTROLLED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PUTTING THOSE KIND OF DEVICES ON.
AND WHEN SOMEBODY NEEDS SOMETHING, I'M NOT SURE IF AN APARTMENT COMPLEX WOULD FALL UNDER THIS.
WE HAVE OFFICES, CONFERENCE ROOMS, ROOMS USED PRIMARILY FOR COPIER PRINT FUNCTIONS, BREAK ROOMS, CLASSROOMS, AND INDIVIDUAL WORKSTATIONS.
SO THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO A R TWO, CORRECT.
AND THIS WHOLE, THIS IS STILL UNDER COMMERCIAL, SO IT WOULDN'T FALL UNDER THE R TWO.
THAT WOULD BE UNDER THE RESIDENTIAL.
WHAT ABOUT R TWO OVER FOUR STORIES? IT WOULD APPLY TO THAT, BUT IT DOES NOT THIS SECTION.
SO THE, THE COMMERCIAL DOES, BUT NOT THIS SECTION.
AND REAL FAST, UH, YOU'RE GREG MCFARLAND, UH, IT'S TEXT ME A FEW ITEMS ABOUT THIS.
I'LL READ THOSE INTO THE COMMITTEE.
UH, THE SWITCHED OUTLET HAS BEEN IN THERE FOR YEARS IS HIS STATEMENT.
UH, THERE IS ONLY APPLICABLE TO OFFICES, NOT HALLWAYS, NOT KITCHENS, ET CETERA.
SO KITCHENS, I UNDERSTAND, I, BUT DOES SPECIFIED BREAK ROOMS, BUT THIS IS HIS STATEMENT.
I TYPICALLY TELL MY USERS TO PLUG MONITORS, PRINTERS, AND OTHER STUFF LIKE THAT ON THE SWITCHED OUTLET.
THE ONE THAT WOULD TURN OFF THE COMPUTER TOWER, STAY ON THE CONSTANT POWER.
IN GENERAL, I THINK THE CODE PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS AS A SEVEN YEAR OR LESS PAYBACK IN ORDER TO INCORPORATE IN THE CODE, BUT HE'S NOT 100% SURE ON THAT.
UH, AND HE'S KIND OF CONFIRMING, I DON'T THINK IT'S APPLICABLE TO OUR TWO TO, TO R TWO TO BEGIN WITH.
UH, BUT I THINK HE'S IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT.
IT'S NOT OUR, OUR TWO, UH, BASED OFF OF THIS VERBIAGE HERE, AND IF IT'S BELOW THREE STORIES, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT MR. MCFARLAND.
I I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A GOOD PROVISION.
WE OUGHT TO OPT IT AS SUBMITTED.
DOES IT APPLY TO ANY PORTION OF AN R TWO BUILDING THAT'S OVER FOUR STORIES ONLY THE OFFICES OR CONFERENCE ROOMS BREAK ROOMS? I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE IN NUMBER ONE NOT INDIVIDUAL DWELLING UNITS, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO IT MIGHT BE YOUR CLUBHOUSE AREA, YOUR, YOUR, UM, LEASING OFFICE AREA AND MAYBE A WORKSTATION AREA.
IF YOU DO HAVE KIND OF REMOTE WORK TYPE OF, WHAT DO YOU IN THOSE AREAS THAT IN THOSE, TYPICALLY IN THOSE FOUR STORY BUILDINGS, THEY HAVE COMMON AREAS THAT ARE AVAILABLE AS AMENITIES 24 7.
[01:15:01]
ROOMS AND PLACES TO HANG THAT PEOPLE CAN GO 24 7.I THINK WHAT HE'S SAYING, MARK, IS THAT IN THOSE ROOMS THEY WOULD APPLY, BUT THE INDIVIDUAL DWELLING UNITS, THIS DOES NOT APPLY.
BUT, SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION DETECTOR THAT MAKES THE PLUGS GO ON TO MAKE THE COMPUTER IN THE BUSINESS CENTER THAT'S AVAILABLE 24 7.
SO SOMEBODY THAT'S GONNA LEAVE THEIR COMPUTER PLUGGED IN OVER, THERE'S GOTTA BE NO, THERE'S, THERE'S PUBLIC COMPUTERS.
SO THIS DOES SAY AT LEAST 50%.
SO HALF OF THEM WOULD BE THESE CONTROLLED RECEPTACLES.
THE OTHER HALF CAN BE UNCONTROLLED HOTEL ABOUT THAT MARK.
IT'S A, THE, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS, IS ALL THOSE THINGS YOU SEE AND WHEN YOU GO TO A FANCY RESORT BUSINESS ARE NOW AVAILABLE IN APARTMENTS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE THERE AND THEY'RE TRYING TO COMPETE.
IT WOULD APPLY TO THE DORMS, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE, THAT ARE, THEY'RE REALLY APARTMENTS, BUT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY RENT BY THE BEDROOM VERSUS RENTING BY THE APARTMENT.
THEY HAVE ALL THESE FACILITIES THERE THAT HAVE ALL THIS STUFF THAT IS OPEN BASICALLY 24 7.
AND TO HAVE A BUNCH OF PLUGS THAT PEOPLE CAN'T USE OR HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TURN ON TO ME IS JUST NOT GOOD OPERATING SMART CHAIRMAN.
UH, IF, IF FOR US TO GET THROUGH THESE 54 AMENDMENTS, WE EITHER NEED TO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS OR TABLE IT.
UM, AND AGAIN, I, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO GET THROUGH THE 54, BUT I THINK WE DON'T DO THAT AT THE EXPENSE OF HAVING A CONVERSATION, BUT I THINK WE'VE, WE'VE BEAT THIS ONE INTO THE GROUND.
SO, UH, JOE, THUMBS UP OR THUMBS DOWN ON THIS? THUMBS UP.
UH, ROBERT, JACK, I MEAN, I'D GIVE IT AN UP, BUT I, I, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO IS YOU'RE GONNA FIND A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA GO TO THE ONE THAT'S, UH, UNCONTROLLED AND PLUG INTO THAT ONE.
SO WE'RE GONNA, THIS ONE'S GONNA GO IN THE APPROVED PILE AND WE'LL MOVE ON.
UM, BEFORE WE DO THAT THOUGH, LET'S TAKE A, UH, LET'S TAKE FIVE.
UM, LET'S TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK.
IS FIVE MINUTES ENOUGH? DO, DO WE NEED MORE? I THINK WE'RE GOOD, BUT I MEAN, YOU, YOU SAY FIVE MINUTES, BUT HE REALLY WILL START WHEN YOU CALL US BACK INTO SESSION.
ALRIGHT, WE'LL CALL BACK TO ORDER.
I'M SHAMED, I'M SHAMED ON ITEM 29, WHICH IS SURE TO BE A QUICK AND EASY ONE.
BEFORE WE GET STARTED, I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE, UH, HAVE YOU INTRODUCED HIMSELF, JASON VANDIVER WITH, UH, SOUTH CENTRAL PARTNERSHIP FOR ENERGY EFFICIENCY AS A RESOURCE.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND FOR YOUR INPUT.
AND NOW WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE OFFICIALLY FOR EVERYONE AT HOME.
THIS IS A NEW, NEW SECTIONS FOR ENERGY MONITORING.
SO I IDENTIFIED, WE IDENTIFIED, UH, THAT THESE WERE NEW SECTIONS.
4 0 5 POINT 12 THROUGH 4 0 5, 12 0.5.
I MAKE THE COMMENT, UH, THE VERY FIRST EXCEPTION SHOULD PUT, UH, UH, SOME INDIVIDUAL'S MINDS AT EASE.
THIS EXEMPTS OUR TWO OCCUPANCIES AND INDIVIDUAL TENANT SPACES.
SO AS LONG AS MY INDIVIDUAL TENANT SPACE IS LESS THAN 5,000 SQUARE FOOT, IT DOESN'T NEED TO COMPLY.
WHAT ABOUT THE OFFICE BUILDINGS OF AN R TWO OCCUPANCY? I WOULD BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY BECAUSE THAT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AN R TWO OCCUPANCY.
UM, THE OFFICE SPACE, THAT WOULD BE A REGULAR BUSINESS OCCUPANCY, OR IF IT'S AN ASSEMBLY AREA, THE OFFICE LEASING AREA IS NOT CONSIDERED R TWO.
SO ALL THE COMMON AREAS OF, SO STILL IT'S STILL IN THE COST.
BUT, BUT OVER 25,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO THAT'S NOT, IT'S JUST THOSE PARTICULAR AREAS ARE 25,000
[01:20:01]
SQUARE FEET OR ABOVE.NOT THAT THE, THE ENTIRE COMPLEX IS OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET, BUT WE TAKE OUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE OCCUPANCY, OF THE ARC OF THE TENANT DWELLINGS AND JUST THE OFFICE SPACES BECOME THE ISSUE.
WE LOOKING, WE'D BE LOOKING AT THAT INDIVIDUALLY.
THIS WORK WITH WHAT THE CITY'S DOING ON THIS VOLUNTARY DEAL THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING.
I'M NOT SURE THE SUSTAINABILITY'S PROPOSING FOR REPORTING ENERGY, DOES THIS MAKE IT MANDATORY? WELL, THIS WOULD BE MANDATORY FOR THOSE BUILDINGS THAT, UH, THAT THIS APPLIES TO.
SO THOSE WITH FLOOR CONDITIONED FLOOR AREAS, 25,000 SQUARE FEET OR LARGER, WHAT'S THE COST OF THESE SYSTEMS? I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THESE SYSTEMS AT ALL.
SO WHAT DOES IT, HOW DOES IT RUN? WHAT DOES IT COST? WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? WHAT DOES IT, WHAT DOES IT DO FOR US? I'M SURE THAT'S NOT A QUESTION WE SHOULD ANSWER.
WE CAN ANSWER, WE SHOULD PROBABLY CONSIDER NOT ADOPTING THIS SECTION.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT A BUILDING MANAGEMENT SYSTEM WOULD COST.
UM, FOR ONE, OUR, WE MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON COST HERE.
IS THAT PART OF OUR CHARGE? THE, THE ENTIRE CODE IS, INCORPORATES THE IDEA OF COST IN IT.
I MEAN, WE COULD BUILD BUILDINGS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONCRETE TO SAVE FIRE DAMAGE, BUT WE DON'T, CORRECT, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT EVERY COMPONENT OF THE IC OF THE ALL THE I CODES INCORPORATES COST AS, UH, CONSIDERATION.
I THINK ROBERT, UM, THAT, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
WE WOULD MANAGE THAT WITH THE LIFE SAFETY, UM, ITEMS. RIGHT? WE DON'T SAY A SPRINKLER SYSTEM AS NOT COST EFFECTIVE BECAUSE IT COST EXACTLY.
BUT THIS IS NOT A LIFE, BUT THAT SEEMS LIFE.
BUT THIS IS NOT A LIFE SAFETY ITEM.
BUT THIS IS, THIS TAKES THAT CHOICE AWAY.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU'RE IN A R TWO OCCUPANCY AND YOU'RE SAYING, I HAVE TO NOW INSTALL A, IN THE OFFICES AND HALLWAYS ARE MORE THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET OF THAT WHOLE BUILDING, THE HALLWAY WOULD BE R TWO.
HALLWAYS THAT ARE SERVING, THOSE R TWOS ARE, UM, ARE LUMPED IN AS THE R TWO.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T IDENTIFY A, A CORRIDOR OR A HALLWAY AS A SEPARATE OCCUPANCY.
WE WOULD JUST BE LOOKING AT THOSE OFFICE, UM, USES THAT BUSINESS CENTER WE TALKED ABOUT.
WE WOULD LOOK AT THOSE SEPARATELY.
I MEAN, ASIDE FROM ANY PARTICULAR BUILDING TYPE, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUESTION TO ASK WHAT, WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE, WHAT IS IT THAT'S GETTING, GETTING PUT IN, PUT IN HERE AND WHAT AND WHAT IS IT DOING? AND I THINK WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
UM, AND ROBERT, I APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I MEAN, AND, AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN ENERGY MONITORING SYSTEM AND, AND A SPRINKLER SYSTEM.
AND I KNOW YOU'RE NOT DISPUTING THAT.
UM, BUT I DO THINK IT'S WORTH UNDERSTANDING WHAT, WHAT THIS ACTUALLY ENTAILS SINCE IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ADDS TO THE, TO THE FUNCTION OF THE BUILDING.
I MEAN, IT WAS RIVER MONITORING IT, RIGHT? WHERE DOES THIS INFORMATION GO? ARE WE GONNA PASS OR FAIL? IT'S DESIGNED TO HELP THE BUILDING OWNER KNOW WHEN SOMETHING'S OUTTA WHACK AND USING MORE ENERGY.
IT IT, THE TABLE, I MEAN IT DIVIDES IT INTO SIX END USE CATEGORIES AND IT THE HAVE TO BE MONITORED.
I THINK THE WHOLE PURPOSE IS SIMPLY JUST TO LET FOLKS KNOW WHEN SOMETHING'S GONE HAYWIRE.
CAN WE FIND OUT WHAT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS OF WHAT THIS WOULD COST TO PUT IN? BECAUSE I, YES, YOU CAN
IS THAT KIND OF WHERE WE'RE LEANING?
[01:25:01]
HEARING NO DISAGREEMENT WITH THAT? WE'LL, TABLE 29THAT'S A CHANGE TO C 4 0 6 0.1 IN THE TABLES.
YOU CAN SELECT FROM, UM, 11 POINT BASED ITEMS THAT OFFER ADDITIONAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY.
THESE ARE BASED ON THE CLIMATE ZONE AND OCCUPANCY TYPE OR OCCUPANCY CLASSIFICATION.
AND THIS WILL ULTIMATELY PROVIDE MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH NO MORE COST IN MY OPINION.
IT'S JUST, IT, IT SEEMS A WHOLE LOT MORE COMPLICATED.
BEFORE, IN THE 18, IT WAS PICK ONE OF SIX AND THIS ONE IS PICK ONE OF A BUNCH AND DEPENDING ON CLIMATE ZONE, YOU MIGHT GET MORE POINTS FOR ONE OR THE OTHER.
SO IT REALLY PROVIDES MORE FLEXIBILITY.
SO THESE ARE, SO UH, ITEM 31, THAT'S A CHANGE FOR TO 4 0 6 2.
THIS IS ALL PART OF THE ADDITIONAL EFFICIENCY REQUIREMENTS.
SO THIS IS, UH, 4 0 6 2 IS THE HVAC EQUIPMENT PERFORMANCE.
SO AGAIN, THESE, UM, AS JASON MENTIONED, THESE ARE ALL PART OF THE OPTIONS THAT YOU CAN CHOOSE FOR THE, THE 10 CREDITS FROM THOSE TABLES.
SO IT JUST GOES INTO DETAIL ABOUT THE, UM, EFFICIENT HVAC EQUIPMENT PERFORMANCE REQUIREMENTS.
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF THESE CREDITS? WHAT, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE, WHAT ARE THEY CREDITS TO? IS THERE SOME KIND OF RATING SYSTEM? IS IT HAVE TO DO WITH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF POINTS TO BE GET APPROVED? UH, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT THAT IS? JASON VANDIVER.
THE, UM, SO OBVIOUSLY IN LIKE MACALLAN, TEXAS, YOU WOULDN'T GET AS MANY CREDITS FOR A MORE EFFICIENT HEATING SYSTEM.
AND SO IT, IT'S JUST YOU'RE TRYING TO GET 10 POINTS OR 10 OR 11 POINTS, WHATEVER THE POINT TOTAL YOU HAVE TO GET.
AND DEPENDING ON WHAT MAKES MORE SENSE FOR YOUR CLIMATE, YOU MIGHT GET MORE OR LESS POINTS TO, TO TRY TO GET TO.
IT'S JUST A, AN ADDITIONAL EFFICIENCY.
AND, AND IN THE PREVIOUS CODES IT WAS PICK ONE OF SIX, IT WAS BLACK AND WHITE, PICK ONE OF SIX AND THIS IS PICK ONE OF A BUNCH.
YOU'RE TRYING TO GET TO A POINT TOTAL AND DEPENDING ON WHAT MAKES MORE SENSE, YOU GET, MIGHT GET MORE OR LESS POINTS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
WHAT ARE THE POINTS SCORE FOR? I MEAN IS THIS LIKE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF POINTS.
DO YOU HAVE TO, TO, TO GET APPROVED FOR YOUR PERMIT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF POINTS.
SO JUST ANOTHER QUESTION ON THAT ONE.
IT, ON YOUR NOTES IT SAID INDUSTRY FEEDBACK WAS THAT IT WAS DIFFICULT TO ADD ANOTHER 10% BECAUSE BOTH HEATING AND COOLING MUST COMPLY.
THIS ALLOWS EITHER OR BOTH TO COMPLY.
WAS THE INDUSTRY FEEDBACK OKAY WITH THAT, THAT LAST STATEMENT? THIS ALLOWS EITHER OR BOTH TO COMPLY? YES.
I THINK THAT WAS THEIR SUGGESTION.
THAT WAS, UH, THE OLD CODE YOU HAD TO BE 10% MORE EFFICIENT IN BOTH HEATING AND COOLING, WHICH WASN'T ALWAYS FEASIBLE.
SO THIS ALLOWS YOU TO SPLIT OUT THE COOLING FROM THE HEATING AND ALSO GIVES US 5% TOO.
SO IT WAS JUST MAKES IT MORE FLEXIBLE AND EASIER TO MEET BY THE MANUFACTURERS IN THE INDUSTRY.
SO THAT WAS AN INDUSTRY FEEDBACK COMPROMISE.
WE GOOD? ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO 32.
32 IS UH, A CHANGE IN A NEW SECTION, C 4 0 6 0.3.
THIS AGAIN IS PART OF THE ADDITIONAL EFFICIENCY REQUIREMENTS AND AN OPTION TO ONE OF THOSE OPTIONS.
SO CRYSTAL, BASICALLY EVERYTHING IN C 4 0 6 12 OR 4 0 6 ARE ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN EARN THE POINTS.
THOSE ARE ALL VARIABLE OPTIONS IF WE WANNA LOOK AT THOSE ALTOGETHER.
[01:30:01]
THEM ALL.'CAUSE THEY'RE ALL PART OF THAT SAME SYSTEM ALL THE WAY THROUGH 36 THROUGH 36.
I MEAN I DON'T, WE SHOULDN'T WE JUST AT LEAST LOOK AT 'EM.
YOU HAVEN'T LOOKED AT 'EM YET, MIKE
WELL, I MEAN, I READ 'EM PERSONALLY.
I JUST, I WASN'T SURE ABOUT MY COLLEAGUES IF THEY READ THEM ALL.
ALL RIGHT, SO WE'RE GONNA GO TO 37.
JUST LUMPED THAT WHOLE SECTION IN THERE.
UM, SO THIS CHANGE WAS RESULT OF REMOVING ALL THE MANDATORY AND PRESCRIPTIVE.
SO PREVIOUSLY THERE WERE SECTIONS THAT SAID PRESCRIPTIVE OR MANDATORY.
UM, AND IT PUTS THEM ALL IN ONE PLACE.
SO BASICALLY WE'VE RAISED ALL THE BASE STANDARDS AND NOW YOU'RE HAVING TO DO 10 POINTS ABOVE THE BASE STANDARDS, CORRECT? UH, CORRECT.
IN THE 2018 YOU HAD TO PICK ONE OF THE OPTIONS TO BE, YOU HAD TO DO THE BASE STANDARDS PLUS PICK ONE OF THE OPTIONS.
SO WE'RE KIND OF DOING THE SAME THING AS JUST MAKING IT A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLE.
BUT IF YOU'RE RAISING THE BASE, YOU'RE MAKING IT MORE FLEXIBLE BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE REALLY INCREASING DRAMATICALLY.
SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO HIGHER SEARS AS THE BASE TO GET THE 10%, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO, YOU KNOW, FROM A 12 TO A 15 AND THEN 15 ABOVE THAT 10% TO GET YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
WHAT, WHAT CODE OF THE I E C C HAS THE STATE ADOPTED? WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE ONE THAT'S CURRENTLY BEEN ADOPTED BY THE STATE? THEY'RE UNDER THE 2015.
THEY'RE, I THINK THEY'RE IN DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE 2021 'CAUSE THEY ADOPT EVERY SIX YEARS.
UH, WHAT'S THE PEOPLE THAT EVALUATED? YES, THE TEXAS ENERGY SYSTEMS LAB SYSTEM.
OKAY, YOU GUYS READY FOR 38? 38.
SO NOW THE SECTIONS HAVE AN R IN FRONT OF THEM AND THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE SIMILAR.
THAT FIRST ONE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
YEAH, IT'S IDENTICAL TO THE THE, TO THE COMMERCIAL.
SO THIS SPECIFIES THAT THE MATERIALS WITHOUT THE R VALUE INSULATION, WELL THAT, THAT DON'T SHOW THE R-VALUE INSULATION.
UM, IF IT'S NOT OBSERVABLE, THEY NEED A CERTIFICATE, WHICH IS BASICALLY HOW EVERYBODY DOES IT RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T SEE OUR PROCESSES CHANGING.
SO THIS WAS A CHANGE IN SOME NEW SECTIONS IN THERE.
UM, THESE, THE BASELINE REQUIREMENTS TO CHOOSE FROM AND IT NOW REQUIRES ADDITIONAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY PACKAGE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE JUST, JUST JUST DISCUSSED FOR COMMERCIAL.
THIS WAS A CHANGE TO TABLE R 4 0 2 0.12.
UM, THE CEILING U FACTOR CHANGED FROM 0.030 TO 0.026.
SO WHAT ARE YOU DUE TO TO GET FROM 0.030 TO 0.026 FOR A U FACTOR? WHAT, WHAT'S REQUIRED TO GET THAT? BASICALLY GOING FROM AN R 38 TO AN R 49.
BUT YOU CAN STILL, LIKE IF YOU HAD VAULT CEILING AREAS OR H V A C WALKWAYS, YOU COULD STILL TRADE THAT
[01:35:01]
OFF.YOU COULD HAVE LOWER INSTALLATION LEVELS IN SOME PART OF THE BUILDING, BUT THAT WOULD INCREASE THE BASELINE, SO TO SPEAK, FROM A R 38 TO AN R 49.
SO HOW MANY INCHES OF BLOWN IS THAT INCREASE TO GET TO THAT DEPENDING ON MANUFACTURER AND SET 15 INCHES OF BLOWN OR SO 15 ADDITIONAL, NO TOTAL 15 TO 18 INCHES TOTAL.
SO AT SOME POINT DOES THAT REQUIRE YOU TO BEEF UP THE, THE TRUSSES AND STUFF? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
'CAUSE YOU CAN ALWAYS TRADE IT OFF.
I MEAN YOU COULD CONCEIVABLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, EVEN WITH TRUSSES TO NO, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO.
IT, IT, SO THE ADDED WEIGHT OF ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR INCHES OF INSULATION WEIGHS NOTHING, HAS ZERO WEIGHT? NO, IT HAS WEIGHT, BUT IT, THE, THE LUMBER SPAN TABLES WERE, WERE NOT NEEDED TO BE ADJUSTED TO CARRY THAT ADDITIONAL WEIGHT.
THE LOAD IS, IS ALREADY, UH, IT, IT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
BUT THERE IS TRADE-OFFS, CORRECT.
IF YOU'RE USING THE UUA ALTERNATIVE, WHICH IS WHAT RESCHECK DOES IN WHAT MOST PEOPLE DO, YES, THERE'S ALTERNATIVES.
IF YOU'RE JUST USING THE PRESCRIPTIVE TABLES, YOU WOULD USE THE R 49.
SO THE OTHER QUESTION, LIKE IN A SLOPED ROOF THAT IS STILL PART OF A ROOF THAT, THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT IN BATS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE DIMENSIONALLY THE SYSTEM TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO FIT A LARGER BAT.
YES, THAT'S THE ONE PORTION YOU MIGHT NEED TO CHANGE.
BUT THAT'S AGAIN, IF YOU'RE NOT USING ALTERNATIVES ELSEWHERE, I MEAN YOU CAN STILL NOT PUT IN THE 49 FOR THOSE CATHEDRAL CEILINGS AND BEEF UP SOME OTHER SEC UH, SYSTEM AND, AND INSTEAD, I MEAN YOU COULD CONCEIVABLY HAVE R 19 IN THOSE VAULTS, BUT YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO SHOW IN YOUR CALCULATIONS THAT YOU TRADED IT OFF SOMEWHERE ELSE.
IT WOULD BE IDEAL TO HAVE A A, A BACKSTOP, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE CAN'T GO BELOW R 30 OR SOMETHING IN THE CEILING, THAT, THAT WOULD BE BETTER.
BUT THE ENERGY CODE IS SUPER FLEXIBLE.
YOU CAN TRADE THAT OFF ALL DAY LONG AND JUST MAKE IT UP WITH A LITTLE BETTER WINDOW OR A LITTLE MORE INSULATION SOMEWHERE ELSE OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
THIS IS ALL BASED ON PRESCRIPTIVE, CORRECT? NOT PERFORMANCE? WELL THAT'S UP TO THE BUILDER AND THE DESIGNER WHAT PATH THEY'RE USING.
AND MOST OF OUR BUILDERS ARE USING THE UA ALTERNATIVE.
IF THEY'RE USING THE R VALUE TABLE, THEN ALSO IF THEY USE THE OTHER SYSTEM, ARE THE REQUIREMENTS THEY'RE BEING RAISED TO, UH, YES.
THE U FACTOR AND THE R VALUE THAT'S ROW 40 AND 41 ARE KIND OF CONSISTENT WITH EACH OTHER.
SO YOU'RE EITHER CHOOSE CHOOSING TO ABIDE BY THE R VALUE TABLE OR YOU'RE CHOOSE TO ABIDE BY THE UA ALTERNATIVE TABLE.
SO YOU'RE KIND OF USING ONE OR THE OTHER.
AND SO WHAT EFFECT ON A SINGLE FAMILY HOME THAT'S A COUPLE THOUSAND SQUARE FEET, DOES THAT DIFFERENCE MAKE? IS IT RAISE THE COST BY 5%? 10%? I MEAN, I MEAN, ARE WE TALKING, BECAUSE I KNOW IF YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE INSULATION AND YOU HAVE TO GO FROM IN A CATHEDRAL CEILING TO A BIGGER, YOU KNOW, PIECE OF WOOD TO FIT SOMETHING IN THERE THAT COULD BE SIGNIFICANT.
CORRECT? IT'S GONNA AFFECT THE TRUSSES.
YOU GOTTA CREATE A HILL IF YOU GOTTA BE CONTINUOUS.
UM, YES, THE COST FOR THE I INSTALL'S GONNA COST MORE.
BUT THE NEW STATE BILL KIND OF ALLOWS YOU TO GO WITH THE HERS RATING.
THERE'S A STATE LAW THAT THAT ALLOWS THE HERS RATING TO BE USED AS A FOURTH ALTERNATIVE.
LIKE RIGHT NOW I BELIEVE THE HERS RATING IS 63 AND IT GOES TO 59 LATER.
IT IS, I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS IN FRONT OF ME, BUT YES, IT IS DECREASING OVER A COUPLE YEAR PERIOD.
SO THE ALTERNATIVES THAT WE, THAT YOU MENTIONED LIKE A, A BETTER INSULATED WINDOW OR ANYTHING.
SO WOULD THAT WINDOW HAVE TO BE LOCATED IN THE ROOM WHERE THE, WHERE THE CATHEDRAL CEILING IS? SO WHAT DOES THAT ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH? I MEAN, IS IT LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HOW THEY'RE CARBON NEUTRAL, BUT THEY ARE PRODUCING AS MUCH CARBON AS THEY EVER DID THEY JUST BUY INDULGENCES SOMEWHERE? I MEAN, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE?
[01:40:01]
IT SEEMS LIKE WE'D JUST BE BUILDING EXTRA COST INTO THE, INTO THE BUILDING.UM, THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING.
WELL IT'S, IT'S JUST KIND OF LIKE THE MOST ITERATIONS OF THE ENERGY CODE YOU'RE BUILDING.
THERMAL ENVELOPE GETS A LITTLE BIT BETTER AND, AND, AND THE INCREASE IN THE SEAL, THE, UNFORTUNATELY THE WALL STAYED AT AN R 13 BASELINE, YOU KNOW, RIGHT UP THE ROAD IT'S R 20.
UM, SO YOU'VE GOT AN EASY WALL IN CLIMATE ZONE TWO AND I THINK IT'S RECOGNIZATION OF THE DELTA T YOU KNOW, THAT 145 DEGREE ATTIC AND, AND HOW THAT HEAT TRANSFERS WANTING TO GET INTO THE HOUSE AND IT, IT, NOW YOU CAN TRADE IT OFF OF COURSE.
I MEAN I, I CAN MAKE A HOME COMPLY WITH R THREE IN THE WALLS AS LONG AS I HAVE A BUNCH OF REALLY GOOD WINDOWS.
IT IT'S, BUT IT'S, IT'S DESIGNED TO CREATE FLEXIBILITY AND ULTIMATELY THE BUILDER IS GOING TO GET WITH THEIR THIRD PARTY ENERGY MODELER RAIDER GUY THAT DOES THEIR BLOWER DOOR AND DUCT TESTING AND HE'S GONNA SAY, HEY, THIS DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE.
OR, HEY, WE NEED TO GO WITH TWO BY EIGHTS INSTEAD OF TWO BY SIXES IN THE GREAT ROOM, OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
BUT IT'S, IT'S A MODEST INCREASE IN BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE IN THE CEILING, RIGHT.
AND THE WALLS DIDN'T CHANGE, NOTHING ELSE CHANGED AND IT'S ALL TRADABLE.
YEAH, I MEAN, AND I APPRECIATE LIKE THE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FLEXIBILITY AND THE TRADABLE, I GUESS MY POINT ABOUT THE, THE TRADABLE IS THAT IT'S TRADABLE.
I MEAN, IF THE IDEA IS TO HAVE A BETTER INSULATED ATD, 'CAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHERE MOST OF YOUR HEAT IS, WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY IMPROVING.
WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY MAKING UP FOR THAT LOSS IN THE ATTIC BY ADDING A WINDOW SOMEWHERE.
AND YOU KNOW, I THINK ESPECIALLY WHEN THE RESIDENTIAL SECTION, YOU KNOW, ALL YOU HEAR ABOUT THESE DAYS IS THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS, RIGHT? THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS WITH AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.
EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE GONNA READ FROM HERE ON IS, IS A REGRESSIVE TAX THAT, YOU KNOW, IT DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECTS LOWER INCOME CITIZENS OF OUR CITY AND THEIR ABILITY TO BUY A HOME.
UM, SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT, UM, ADOPTING EVERYTHING THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S IN HERE.
UM, BECAUSE IT IS A HUNDRED PERCENT ADDS TO THE COST AND WE'LL PUT HOMES OUTTA REACH, UM, AT A QUICK PACE.
SO I, I JUST, YOU KNOW, AS A GENERAL THING, AS WE GET THROUGH THE RESIDENTIAL SECTION, I THINK IT'S WORTH SAYING, UM, THAT WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL, UH, ABOUT THAT.
AND THAT'S WHY MY POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THIS TRADE OFF IS NOT, IT'S A, IT'S A PAPER TRADE OFF.
IT'S A, IT'S A, UM, IT'S A, THE BUYING OF INDULGENCES TO BE ABLE TO SAY WE'RE CARBON NEUTRAL, UM, THAT, UH, IF THE ATTIC IS EITHER MORE, MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO PROVISION TO GET THE STANDARD OR WE DO SOMETHING THAT'S EXPENSIVE ALSO, BUT UH, DOESN'T ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH ACTUALLY TRADING OFF THE ENERGY TRANSFER IN THE LOCATION WHERE, UM, WHERE WE'RE NOT MEETING THE STANDARD.
I JUST, I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY NEED TO STRONGLY CONSIDER IN THESE ITEMS. THAT'S WHY BRINGING IN SOME PRESCRIPTIVE BASELINE MINIMUMS THAT YOU COULDN'T GO BELOW SO THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE OFFSETTING YOUR CARBON, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YOU WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN'T ALLOW BUILDERS TO DO SOMETHING THAT WAS CHEAPER, BUT THAT, THAT MADE NO SENSE FOR, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WHEN YOU BUY A HOME, IT'S NOT ONLY THE MORTGAGE, YOU KNOW, IF YOUR MORTGAGE IS $20 MORE, BUT YOUR UTILITY BILL'S $40 LESS, IS THAT A MORE EXPENSIVE HOME OR NOT? I WOULD ARGUE IT'S NOT.
BUT IF YOU CAN'T BUY THE HOME TO HAVE THE ELECTRIC BILL, YOU KNOW, THAT AFFECTS YOUR LIFE IN WAYS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, AREN'T REALLY MEASURABLE IN, IN, IN THAT KIND OF CALCULUS.
UM, BUT I, I MEAN I, I APPRECIATE WHAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THERE AND, AND MAYBE THE ANSWER IS SOME KIND OF PRESCRIPTIVE MINIMUM THAT, UM, IS, IS SENSITIVE TO THAT, THAT CALCULUS, RIGHT? UM, BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE INTEREST IN, YOU KNOW, IT'S MUCH BETTER TODAY TO HAVE ENERGY EFFICIENT HOMES EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE HOME THAT MANY OF US, US GREW UP WITH THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY
RIGHT? UM, WE'VE COME A LONG WAY.
UM, BUT I THINK THERE ARE, WE JUST HAVE TO BE, WE HAVE TO BE CONSCIOUS I THINK OF OF OF THE, OF THE LIMITS AND, AND, AND THE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE'RE IN, IN, IN TERMS OF THE HOUSING, UH, MARKET AND THE, THE ABILITY OF, OF ALL THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD A PLACE TO LIVE.
BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF 'EM WOULD PROBABLY TRADE OFF THE ABILITY TO OWN A HOME VERSUS A SLIGHTLY HIGHER ELECTRIC BILL VERSUS NOT BEING ABLE TO, UH, OWN A HOME.
UH, I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS COMING IN FROM GREG MCFARLAND.
I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ INTO THE, UH, THE FIRST ONE WAS KIND OF I THINK ADDRESSED ALREADY.
UH, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BAT INSTALLATION IN THE VAULTED CEILINGS.
THEY COULD ALSO USE SWITCH TO A DIFFERENT INSTALLATION TYPE SUCH AS JUST SPRAY FOAM.
SO UNDERSTANDABLE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, INCREASING SIZE.
THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, NOT ACCOUNTING FOR COST.
UM, THE OTHER ITEM IS THE AGGRESSIVE, THE AGGRESSIVE TAX ON THE CITIZENS IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHEN THEY HAVE TO PAY HIGHER UTILITY COSTS LATER ON.
THE HIGHER ENERGY EFFICIENCY COST MAKES IT CHEAPER TO THEM TO STAY IN THE HOME IN THE LONG RUN.
IS THIS COMMENT ON THAT, JUST THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST NATIONAL
[01:45:01]
LAB DID THE CALCULATIONS A FOR CLIMATE ZONE TWO, IT'S A TWO YEAR IN TOTALITY IT WAS A TWO TO THREE YEAR PAYBACK, SO IT WASN'T A WAY OUT IN THE FUTURE.IT SUPPOSEDLY IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE FINANCIALLY.
YEAH, BUT I I, TO ECHO WHAT MIKE SAID, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I'M NOT IN THE FOR SALE BUSINESS AT ALL, BUT I, I HEAR IT EVERY MEETING I GO TO ABOUT HOUSING AFFORDABILITY AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME STATISTIC THAT THE BUILDERS AND THE REALTORS PUT UP THAT FOR EVERY, YOU KNOW, THOUSAND DOLLARS, THE PRICE OF A HOUSE GOES UP, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, X NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT NO LONGER CAN AFFORD TO BUY THE HOUSE.
AND, AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO SOME KIND OF MINIMUM SO THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T TRADE OFF R THREE IN THE WALL OR R 12 IN THE CEILING FOR BETTER WINDOWS THAT REALLY DON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE, YOU KNOW? AND, AND A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH WHICH WAY YOUR WINDOWS FACE AND YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH SUN EXPOSURE THEY GET AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT I JUST, I THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF MAKING THE COST OF HOUSING SO, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THERE.
'CAUSE IF YOU LOOKED AT IT RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MEDIAN PRICE OF A NEW HOUSE IS UP, WHAT, 40, $50,000 OVER A YEAR AGO.
AND, AND YOU ADD TO, TO, YOU KNOW, YOU KEEP ADDING TO IT AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S WHAT I CALL, IT'S THE ONLY, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE HEARD SOMEBODY SAY, WELL IT'S ONLY A FEW DOLLARS, YOU KNOW, WELL WHEN YOU ADD EVERYTHING UP IN THE, THE TABLE THAT ONLY FEW DOLLARS ENDS UP BEING REAL MONEY.
AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT I CALL LIFE SAFETY ISSUES, WHERE YOU'RE GONNA SAVE SOMEBODY'S LIFE BY DOING THIS OR YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE ISN'T GONNA FALL DOWN ON TOP OF YOU IN A WINDSTORM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I THINK WE JUST NEED TO BE CAREFUL.
AND IT WAS LIKE THAT ENERGY SYSTEM IN THE COMMERCIAL, IT'S LIKE, WHAT DOES IT COST? BECAUSE IF IT, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE ALL THIS REPORTING DATA THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT USE, YOU KNOW, IF IT WAS REALLY, UH, IMPORTANT AND IT REALLY SAVED YOU A WHOLE LOT OF OPERATING MONEY AND ALL THAT STUFF, THE BUILDING OWNER 90% OF THE TIME WOULD JUST PAY TO PUT THAT STUFF IN.
AND THE FACT THAT THE CODE'S REQUIRING IT MEANS THAT IT'S NOT THERE YET.
AND SO I, IS THERE A WAY FOR YOU TO JUST GIVE AN ESTIMATE ON, YOU KNOW, BASED UPON YOUR EXPERT OPINION, IS THIS RAISING, YOU KNOW, IS IT $500 MORE THAN IT WOULD'VE COST WITH THE LAST CODE OR IS IT 5,000 OR 10,000? UH, 1500 TO 2000 WOULD BE A GUESSTIMATE FOR, OR BASED ON SOME NUMBERS FROM THE P N N L AND ABOUT A 2000 TO 2,500 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE WOULD BE ABOUT 1500 TO $2,000 THAT COST.
AND WHAT WOULD THAT BE BY THE TIME IT ENDS UP BEING TO THE CONSUMER, THREE OR 4,000 MORE THAN THAT.
YEAH, JACK, WHEN WE'RE HERE, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN AN AGE OLD PROBLEM THAT WE ALWAYS HAVE AND ESPECIALLY EXASPERATED THIS YEAR MORE THAN EVER BEFORE, YOU KNOW, HEY, THE NUMBERS HAVE GONE UNCONTROLLABLY OUTTA SIGHT, BUT WE'RE DOING THIS FOR THE GOOD OF ALL YOU PEOPLE.
WE'RE GONNA RAISE IT SOME MORE.
'CAUSE WE THINK WE SHOULD AT THIS TIME, AT THIS TIME, ALL THE TIMES TO DO IT.
WE'RE GOING TO, WE'RE GONNA ADD SOME MORE TO YOU.
AND THE THE REAL FACT IS WHEN YOU GO TO THE MORTGAGE LOAN OFFICER AND YOU'RE SITTING IN FRONT OF THEM AND YOU'RE READY TO GET A LOAN FOR YOUR HOUSE, THEY DON'T ASK YOU WHAT YOUR UTILITY BILLS ARE.
THEY JUST LOOK AT THE HOUSE, THEY DON'T CARE.
THEY WANNA KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER OR THE COST OF THE HOUSE IS, PERIOD.
WHEN, AND I'M NOT DISAGREEING, I MEAN I, I PERSONALLY LIKE THE FOAM HOMES WHERE OUR UTILITY BILLS ARE $85.
UM, BUT WHEN YOU ASK PEOPLE DO YOU WANNA PAY FOR IT? AND AGAIN, IT COMES DOWN TO FREEDOM OF CHOICE.
THEY SAY NO, BUT THEY SOMETIMES WANNA GO GET SOMEBODY THAT COMES TO THEIR DOOR AND CONVINCES TO SPEND $20,000 ON A SOLAR SYSTEM, WHICH A PAYBACK IS 25 YEARS.
AND FORCING PEOPLE TO DO THINGS LIKE THAT IS ABSOLUTELY ASININE IN MY OPINION.
I KNOW WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SOLAR RIGHT NOW, BUT IT'S RIDICULOUS COMPARED TO THE COST OF DA ADDING A LITTLE BIT OF FOAM, YOU GET THE SAME OR BETTER PAYBACK.
BUT THE POINT HERE IS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE YOU, YOU KNOW, I, YOU'RE SAYING THE NUMBER YOU HAVE, I PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER WE APPROVE THIS NOW OR NOT AND WE HAVE TIME TO CHANGE IT, I'M GONNA TAKE IT BACK TO THE ENERGY RATER, GIVE 'EM A COUPLE OF TYPICAL HOMES AND SAY, NOW MULTIPLY THAT TIMES 10,000
[01:50:01]
AND SEE WHAT THAT REALLY COSTS THE INDUSTRY AND WHAT THAT REALLY COSTS THE CITIZENS.AND IF IT REALLY IS SOMETHING I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA VOTE FOR AT IN THE END, BUT FOR HERE AND NOW WE'RE JUST MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
SO WELL THE, I RECOMMEND THAT WE TABLE THAT TILL WE GET THAT BACK.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE ITEM 41 AS WELL, CORRECT.
SO WE'LL TABLE 40 AND 41 FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND UM, SOME MORE INPUT.
BUT JACK, I THINK IN GENERAL YOU BRING UP A REALLY GOOD POINT THAT UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING THAT SAYS THAT ANYTHING WE DO OR DON'T ADOPT HERE CAN'T BE REVISITED SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE AND NOW IS AN EXCRUCIATINGLY PAINFUL TIME TO BE, UM, ADDING ADDITIONAL COSTS TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF NEW HOUSING.
BUT ANYWAY, ALRIGHT, SO WE TABLE 40 AND 41 AND GO TO 42.
ITEM 42 IS A CHANGE TO SECTION R 4 0 2 0.2 POINT 12.
SO THIS PREVIOUSLY ADDRESSED SUNROOMS AND IT ADDED HEATED GARAGE IN HERE NAME.
THAT'S THE SAME FOR THE NEXT ITEM.
SO IT JUST KIND OF LOOKS AT US AT A HEATED GARAGE LIKE A SUNROOM NOW.
SO A NORMAL GARAGE IS NOT A HEATED GARAGE THEN YOUR TYPICAL TWO STORY.
OKAY, THERE'S THAT WORD FENESTRATION AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE MANY OF US HAVE HEATED GARAGE.
WE'RE GOOD WITH 42 AND 43 THEN.
44 NUMBER 44 IS A CHANGE TO R 4 0 2 0.4 0.1 FOR THE BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE.
IT INCREASES THE FLEXIBILITY PERMITTING TRADE-OFFS AGAINST OTHER FEATURES OF THE HOME.
I, I THINK WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE GOOD WITH 44.
THE ELECTRICAL AND COMMUNICATIONS OUTLET BOXES.
SO LIMITS THIS REQUIRES THESE ITEMS TO LIMIT THE AIR LEAKAGE WHEN INSTALLED IN THE THERMAL ENVELOPE, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS FOAMING AROUND IT.
WELL THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK.
YOU'RE TALKING FOR AN AIRTIME FIXTURE OR ARE WE ALLOWED TO FOAM AROUND IT? THIS NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED.
SO THE INTENT OF THE ORIGINAL CODE CHANGE PROPOSAL, WHICH I'VE GOTTEN INTO THE WEEDS ON THIS ONE, SENT OFF TO I C C FOR AN INTERPRETATION AND I'VE BEEN DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE WITH THIS.
UM, THE INTENT IS TO EITHER THOSE OUTLET BOXES THAT ARE PIN THAT ARE IN THE BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE, THE CURRENT PRACTICE TODAY IS THE INSULATOR JUST HITS 'EM WITH FOAM AND IT JUST AIR SEALS 'EM IN THE FIELD.
IT'S EVERYONE IN TEXAS DOES IT.
THAT'S CURRENT PRACTICE AND HAS BEEN BASICALLY SINCE AT LEAST THE 15 ENERGY CODE CAME ALONG.
WELL THE INTENT OF THIS CODE CHANGE WAS TO GIVE BUILDERS THE FLEXIBILITY AND SAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO AIRS SEAL THESE IN THE FIELD, YOU CAN USE A NEMA OS FOUR BOX, WHICH IS A FABRICATED AIR SEALED.
AND, AND WHEN YOU READ THE CODE CHANGE PROPOSAL, IT SAYS IT WON'T ADD TO THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION.
AND SO I CONTACTED THE GUYS LIKE IT, YOU KNOW, 45 CENTS VERSUS $8 TIMES 65.
AND SO THE INTENT WAS TO SAY ELECTRICAL AND COMMUNICATION OUTLET BOXES INSTALLED IN THE BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE SHALL BE SEALED TO LIMIT AIR INFILTRATION.
UM, SO THAT'S IN THE FIELD, THAT'S WHAT IT'S CURRENTLY.
AND THEN, BUT THEN IT GOES ON TO SAY ELECTRICAL AND COMMUNICATION OUTLET BOXES SHALL BE TESTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH NEMA OSS FOUR AND REALLY WHAT IT SHOULD SAY IS, OR TESTED WITH NEMA OSS FOUR.
IT'S JUST, AND I DON'T, ANY CODE OFFICIAL WITH ANY SENSE WOULDN'T REQUIRE THIS AS WRITTEN.
BUT WHEN YOU SEND OFF TO I CCC FOR AN INTERPRETATION, THEY WILL TELL YOU, OH YEAH, THE OUTLET BOXES SHALL BE NEMA OSS FOUR
[01:55:01]
AND AND THAT WASN'T THE INTENT OF THE CODE CHANGE PROPOSAL.THE PERFORMANCE IN THE FIELD OF AIR SEALING 'EM IN THE FIELD WORKS FINE.
THERE'S THERE'S NO PROBLEM WITH THE CURRENT PRACTICE AND I WOULD JUST CHANGE THAT OR ADD AN OR THERE AND IT WOULD SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM AND, AND WOULDN'T ADD A NEW REQUIREMENT.
SO CRYSTAL, HOW ABOUT WE TABLE THIS AND HAVE CITI COME BACK WITH AN AMENDMENT LANGUAGE TO ACHIEVE THE, THE GOAL OF MAKING IT EITHER, YOU KNOW, THAT ALLOWS FOR THE CURRENT PRACTICE OF FOAM CEILING AROUND IT OR ADDING THIS NEW HIGH DOLLAR BOX.
SO ARE WE ALL GOOD WITH THAT? I MEAN, IT'S REAL, IT'S REAL EASY.
YOU JUST ADD THE LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS IT SHALL BE AIR SEALED ON SITE OR TESTED.
IT SHOULD BE EASY FOR STAFF TO COME BACK WITH THAT.
YEAH, I, I AGREE WITH THAT JACK MORE HERE.
I THINK IT, INSTEAD OF JUST, UH, VAGUE LANGUAGE LIKE THAT, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE MORE PRECISE THAT WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GOING TO NOT LEAVE INTERPRETATION TO AN INSPECTOR OR WHOMEVER, UH, THAT WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DOING AND EVERYBODY AGREES WITH IT INSTEAD OF, AGAIN, CREATING A UNNECESSARY, UH, WHEN WE HAVE ALL OUR BLOWER DOOR TESTS AND ALL THE OTHER, THE TIGHTNESS THAT WE'RE MAKING THESE HOMES ALREADY IS PRETTY DOGGONE TIGHT.
SO, UH, I'D RATHER HAVE MORE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE INSTEAD OF SOMEBODY COMING OUT THERE AND SAYING, YEAH, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DO X AND WE NEED TO CLEAN THAT UP WITH, UH, SOME VERBIAGE.
WE'LL BRING A PROPOSAL FOR OUR NEXT MEETING.
THAT'S AN EXISTING CITY AMENDMENT.
WE ADDED OUR 4 0 2 0.6 FOR RADIANT BARRIER.
UH, SO THIS SECTION AGAIN IS A CARRYOVER FROM 2018.
WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP THIS AMENDMENT THAT REQUIRES A RADIANT BARRIER ABOVE CONDITION SPACES.
HEY, JUST, UH, REAL QUICK, UH, THERE'S A AMENDMENT 4 0 2.
IS THAT ANYTHING WE NEED TO OH, FOR TESTING? UM, WE DID NOT BRING THIS TO YOU GUYS BECAUSE IT, INSTEAD OF WHERE REQUIRED BY THE CODE OFFICIAL THAT THE TESTING, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, WE JUST SAY THAT THE, WE'RE ALWAYS GONNA REQUIRE IT, UM, THAT THE TESTING SHALL BE CONDUCTED.
SO IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF, WELL, DOES THIS CODE OFFICIAL IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO REQUIRE IT? THIS AMENDMENT SAYS YES, THE TESTING SHALL BE CONDUCTED.
SO WE, WE DIDN'T THINK THAT THIS WAS, UM, SIGNIFICANT TO BRING FORWARD, BUT THAT'S THE, UH, THAT'S THE EXISTING AMENDMENT THAT'S BEEN ENFORCED AND NO CHANGE.
SORRY, IT LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
I GUESS I I DIDN'T ADD THE COSA AMENDMENT.
UM, SO THIS IS AN EXISTING AMENDMENT.
CAN WE GO BACK TO THE, SO THIS CURRENT AMENDMENT, UM, OFFERS A TRADE OFF.
SO WE IDENTIFIED THIS ONE FOR DISCUSSION.
WHAT IS THE CURRENT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AMENDMENT ON THE DUCKS? SO THE LANGUAGE ON THE SCREEN THAT IS UNDERLINED, SO CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THIS LETS YOU GO LESS DUCTED INSULATION IF YOU INCREASE THE SEAR RATING OF YOUR COOLING EQUIPMENT, RIGHT? THAT'S THE TRADE OFF.
THERE'S A WHOLE NEW RATING COMING IN STARTING JANUARY 1ST.
IT'S, AND WE HAVE A WEBINAR ON IT ON THE 20TH.
AND, AND I'M, I DON'T, I'M NOT FULLY KNOWLEDGEABLE.
[02:00:03]
IT'S A NEW, IT'S A SEER TWO.SO THEY CALCULATE IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY.
AND DEPENDING ON WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY YOU'RE IN IS WHEN IT GOES EFFECT IN EFFECT.
IT'S LIKE YOU SAID JANUARY OF NEXT YEAR.
BUT WHAT ABOUT NOW? NOW IT'S STILL WHAT A 14 I BELIEVE? WHAT IS THIS? UH, IF YOU DO LIKE 14.5 OKAY.
SO THE 2021 BRINGS IN R EIGHT MINIMUM NO MORE R SIX IN UNCONDITION SPACE.
AND SO THE, THE THOUGHT IS, WELL, DO WE STILL WANNA LET THE BUILDERS DO R SIX AND UNCONDITION SPACE? WHICH, YOU KNOW AGAIN THAT 145 DEGREE ATTIC, BUT THERE IS STILL SIGNIFICANT COST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN R SIX AND R EIGHT.
AND YOU COULD, IN THE PREVIOUS ADDITIONS OF THE CODE, YOU COULD USE R SIX AND TRADE IT OFF IN THE PERFORMANCE PATH.
OR SAN ANTONIO HAD AN AMENDMENT, USE A LITTLE MORE EFFICIENT EQUIPMENT AND TRADE IT OFF.
WELL THAT TRADE OFF IN THE PERFORMANCE PATH IS NO LONGER ALLOWED.
IT'S MINIMUM R EIGHT IN THE 2021.
SO DO YOU WANT TO ENTERTAIN ALLOWING THE BUILDERS TO USE R SIX WITH MORE EFFICIENT EQUIPMENT OR DO YOU WANT TO JUST STATE CODE, I GUESS IS KIND OF THE, THE DISCUSSION? WELL, IF USING R 14 ALLOWED YOU R SIX OR A C 14 ALLOWED YOU R SIX INSULATION UP UNTIL THE MOMENT WE'RE SITTING HERE, I WOULD SUPPORT AN AMENDMENT THAT THAT SPECIFICALLY ALLOWED YOU TO USE R SIX INSTALLATION.
IF YOU HAD A C 14 OR ABOVE SYSTEM AND FORGET THE REL ALL THE RELATIVITY WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION.
SO, UH, GREG MCFARLAND HAS A STATEMENT ON THIS ONE.
UM, LOW R VALUES AND AN UNCONDITIONED ATTIC CAN OCCASIONALLY LEAD TO CONDENSATION INSIDE THE INSULATION AND FAILURE.
WE SHOULD NOT ALLOW THE TRADE OFF FOR HIGHER SEER, THE CONDENSATION ISSUE CAN CAUSE THE DUCT WORK TO FAIL.
WELL, A LOT OF THINGS CAN HAPPEN RESPECTFULLY.
UM, I I MEAN IF THIS HAS BEEN ENOUGH, IF IT WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TODAY AS WE SIT AND SPEAK, I MEAN, HAVE, HAVE WE SEEN A HORROR SHOW OF OF DUCT FAILURES? YEAH, WE WOULD BE GETTING CALLS.
THAT'S, THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT ONE THAT WE, THAT'S NOT A CALLBACK, WE DON'T EVER GET ANYTHING ON.
I MEAN I HAVEN'T HEARD IT AT ALL IN THE INDUSTRY.
AND, AND I'M SURE AGAIN, THIS IS ONE MORE ITEM THAT IS JUST GONNA COST MORE.
IS IT, WHAT'S THE TRUE EFFICIENCY OF IT? I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLE FAILURES, BUT ACTUALITY IS IT, HAVE YOU, JOE, HAVE YOU BEEN HEARING IT? Y'ALL Y'ALL BUILT ABOUT A MILLION HOUSES A YEAR? NO, WE DO, YOU KNOW, WE DO 14, HALF, 15, 16, ALL THREE OF 'EM.
THAT'S ALL, I MEAN, I'M ALL FOR REASONABLE INCREASES OF WHATEVER WE DO, BUT YOU KNOW, JUST, JUST, UH, I'M NOT SURE.
TURNS IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS IN JANUARY, WE MAY BE DISCUSSING THIS AGAIN IN, IN JANUARY.
ALSO, THAT'S SOMETHING TO, TO THINK ABOUT IF THE AMENDMENT IS CURRENTLY WRITTEN THAT YOU HAVE TO GET R SIX, YOU HAVE TO DO ABOVE A CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, A, A SR.
BUT THE SEAR MINIMUM IS ABOUT TO BECOME WHAT IS BASICALLY THE INDU INDUSTRY STANDARD.
NOW YOU'RE GONNA LOSE THAT OPTION.
I THINK WE SHOULD BUILD AN AMENDMENT INTO THE AMENDMENT SPECIFICALLY THE SR 14 EQUALS R SIX.
WELL WOULD BE TO ALLOW WHAT'S CURRENTLY A, AN EXCEPTION.
WELL THEN YOU SHOULD JUST CHANGE IT.
YOU SHOULD JUST KIND OF CHANGE IT TO R SIX AS THE REQUIRED SIZE BECAUSE AT THAT POINT EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE ABOVE THAT.
THAT'S A NEW INSTALLATION IN A NEW HOME.
WELL IF YOU BROUGHT THIS FORWARD, I MEAN IT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY APPLY GOING FORWARD AS THE SEER CHANGES.
'CAUSE YOU, IT JUST BASICALLY SAYS YOU CAN GO TO R SIX AS LONG AS YOU'RE USING ONE NOTCH BETTER SEER.
BUT THAT'S A ESCALATION THAT THAT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY.
AND AND HOW LONG HAS THAT BEEN IN THE CODE? A LONG TIME.
AND WHAT WAS THE SEER IN 2009? IT WASN'T EVEN VOTED THEN.
10 OR 12? IT MIGHT'VE BEEN 10 AT THE TIME.
MY, I GUESS MY POINT IS, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNMENT'S NEVER GONNA STOP ESCALATING THE REQUIRED SR LEVELS.
'CAUSE TOO MANY PEOPLE WOULD BE OUTTA WORK IF THEY, IF THEY STOPPED, UM, UH, STUDYING THIS SUGGEST THAT WE GET
[02:05:01]
A, SOMEBODY, ONE OF THE TWO HOME BUILDERS TO TAKE A CURRENT SET OF PLANS AND ASK SOMEBODY JUST TO GET YOU A PRICE ON WHAT IT, THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN R EIGHT AROUND THE DECKS AND R SIX.I'M ALSO CHECKING ON THE INSULATION AS WELL, THE 38 AND 49.
SO DO WE WANT TABLE IT OR WE, UM, THIS IS, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS.
UH, JUST REAL QUICK, AGAIN, OUR AMENDMENT DOES NOT SPECIFY THE SEA LEVEL ALL.
WHAT IT SAYS IS YOU INSTALL BETTER SEA, RIGHT? YOU'RE IMPROVING THAT AND THEN YOU CAN LOWER YOUR DUCT SIZE.
SO BASICALLY AGAIN, EVEN IN JANUARY, IF THE STATE CHANGES THAT WHATEVER IS DICTATED BY THE STATE, OUR AMENDMENT WILL STILL WORK.
IF YOU GO ONE STEP HIGHER, THEN YOU CAN REDUCE YOUR DUCT WORK.
MY MY POINT IS THAT WE SHOULD LOCK IN THE SEER BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A GOOD SEER RATING.
PRICES ARE SKYROCKETING EVERYWHERE AND NOW'S NOT THE TIME TO ADD.
SO MY POINT IS TO CHANGE THE AMENDMENT TO LOCK IN A 14 SEER ALLOWS YOU TO DO R SIX INSULATION.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE SUGGESTION I'M MAKING.
IF, IF WE DO THAT TODAY AND IN JANUARY THE STATE COMES AND SPECIFIES CERTAIN SEER, WE HAVE TO CHANGE IT AGAIN.
BUT IF WE LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS, WHAT THE STATE COMES UP WITH, OUR AMENDMENT STILL UH, WORKS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO EM ADMIT THAT IN JANUARY, WHY WOULD WE HAVE TO CHANGE OUR AMENDMENT? BECAUSE THE CITY CANNOT OVERRULE THE STATE.
THE STATE CAN OVERRULE THE CITY.
DO WE KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE NEW SEA RATINGS? ARE THEY COMPARED TO 14, 16? ANYTHING? I HEARD THEY WERE GOING TO 15 POINTS.
I MEAN, WE GOT NOTIFIED THAT BY OUR AC CONTRACT SUPPLIERS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO IN JANUARY, SOMEWHERE AROUND 15, 15 6 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UH, I BELIEVE IT'S A 14 TWO, BUT IT'S ON THE C TWO.
SO IT'S CALCULATED A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
AND I GET IT, I'LL KNOW BY THE NEXT MEETING BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE HAD A WEBINAR ON IT, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW YET.
I'M BRINGING IN A GUY THAT'S AN EXPERT, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW YET HOW ALL THAT WORKS FOR SURE.
SOME, SOME MANUFACTURERS ARE SENDING LETTERS TO CONTRACTORS.
I ALREADY HEARD THIS FROM MECHANICAL CONTRACTORS SAYING STARTING JANUARY, WE ARE NOT GONNA MAKE ANY UNIT THAT IS LESS THAN C 15.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S A MANUFACTURER DECISION, NOT, NOT A STATE REQUIREMENT YET.
OKAY, SO WE'RE GONNA TABLE THIS AND GET SOME PRICING INFORMATION.
I THINK SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO 48.
IS THIS RELATED? N NO, NOT, NOT COMPLETELY.
UM, SO THIS, THESE ARE NEW ITEMS FOR DUCTS LOCATED IN CONDITION SPACES.
IT, ADAM ADDED ITEMS NUMBER THREE AND FOUR TO ADDRESS WHEN DUCT WORK IS IN THE FLOOR CAVITY OVER IN CONDITIONED SPACE OR WHEN THE DUCT WORK IS LOCATED WITHIN AN EXTERIOR WALL.
UM, WHEN THOSE ARE CONSIDERED INSIDE A CONDITIONED SPACE.
SO FOR THAT DUCT WORK TO BE CONSIDERED INSIDE A CONDITIONED SPACE, IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THOSE ITEMS. AND THEN CRYSTAL HAS SAID NO WHEN JUST LOOKING AT 4.0 3.3 0.3.
IF WE MAKE A CHANGE IN THAT PREVIOUS SECTION, WE PROBABLY NEED TO DO SOMETHING IN THAT SECTION SO THAT THEY'RE THE SAME.
'CAUSE IT SAYS IF IT'S WITHIN AN INSULATED CEILING, IT NEEDS TO BE THE R EIGHT INSULATION.
DO WE WANNA DO ANYTHING WITH THIS? ARE WE GOOD? IT'S JUST MORE TALKING ABOUT LIKE OVER A GARAGE FLOOR CAVITY WHERE YOU HAVE A SECOND FLOOR APPLICATION OVER AN UNCONDITIONED GARAGE TYPE SITUATION.
ABOUT THE ONLY TIME YOU'D HAVE THAT.
YOU SEE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT, JACK? NOT ON HIS FACE, BUT, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION TO THE OTHERS TO SEE IF THERE'S, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE'RE NOT ALREADY DOING.
ALRIGHT, SO WE'LL TABLE THAT ONE TOO.
THESE ARE, UM, ADDITIONAL OPTIONS.
SO TO CONSIDER THE DUCKS, LOCATE THE DUCKS
[02:10:01]
IN A CONDITION SPACE, ASK COMPLY WITH ONE OF THE FOLLOWING.SO THESE ARE TWO ADDITIONAL OPTIONS.
DO WE WANT TO, WE WANNA TABLE THIS ONE STILL, JACK.
SO DO WE, DO WE NEED TO KEEP LOOKING AT THIS OR WE CAN.
WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK TO IT.
SO THIS PROVIDES ADDITIONAL OPTIONS FOR CIRCULATION SYSTEMS AND WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP THIS AMENDMENT AND YOU'LL SEE THE BLACK UNDERLINED TEXT IS WHAT WE HAVE ADDED IN THE 2018 CODE.
AND WE'RE PROPOSING TO KEEP THAT FOR 2021.
THE BLUE STRUCK OUT LANGUAGES IS CURRENT 21 LANGUAGE.
ANY PROBLEMS ON THIS? ALRIGHT, GOOD TO 50 PLEASE.
SO ITEM 50 IS AN EXISTING CITY AMENDMENT AND WE ARE PROPOSING TO REMOVE THAT.
IT HAD THE LANGUAGE STARTING 18 MONTHS AFTER ADOPTION OF THIS CODE, UM, WHICH WAS, UH, MORE THAN THREE YEARS AGO.
SO WE ARE JUST GOING STRAIGHT CODE HERE.
SO THAT WAS JUST AN AMENDMENT TO GIVE PEOPLE TIME TO COMPLY, BUT NOW EVERYBODY HAS TO COMPLY ANYWAY, SO WE'RE GOOD.
AND THAT'S ON NEW CONSTRUCTION, CORRECT? CORRECT.
R 4 0 3 0.6 0.3 FOR THE MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEM.
TESTING REQUIRES THOSE SYSTEMS TO BE TESTED TO ENSURE THEY'RE INSTALLED AND OPERATING AS INTENDED.
AUSTIN DOES IT? I, I THINK SO.
I MEAN, AN EXHAUST FAN IN A BATHROOM, UH, ADJACENT TO AN EXTERIOR WALL WITH A STRAIGHT DUCT RUN WITH, YOU KNOW, NO NINETIES IN IT.
WHY THAT FAN NEEDS TO BE TESTED IN REALITY DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE TO ME, BUT A FAN THAT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN THE, THE PURPOSE OF THE FAN IS TO REMOVE THE MOISTURE AND IF IT CAN'T AND IT'S AN ENERGY HOG AND TRYING TO, THAT'S A PROBLEM.
UM, THERE'S NO GREAT ANSWER TO THIS ONE.
UH, AS IT'S WRITTEN IN THE CODE IS, COULD BE PROBLEMATIC.
I MEAN, THERE'S 20 CITIES IN TEXAS ENFORCING IT ALREADY.
IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S NOT BEING ENFORCED.
UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S WHO DOES THE TESTING? THE THIRD PARTY GUYS, SAME, SAME PEOPLE THAT TEST YOUR BLOWER DOOR AND THE DUCKS.
I MEAN, DON'T WE HAVE MINIMUM DUCT RUNS FOR A REASON? I MEAN, ISN'T THAT WHY WE HAVE THOSE SPEC, YOU KNOW, WELL, I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS OF ALL THOSE EXHAUST FANS, THAT'S ALL BASED ON A RIGID FOUR INCH STRAIGHT METAL DUCT.
IN, IN, IN REALITY, EVERYBODY'S THROWING A PIECE OF FLEX DUCT ON THERE.
AND OF COURSE THEY ALWAYS INSTALL IT BACKWARDS AND HAVE 92 NINETIES, BUT BY THE TIME THEY FINALLY GET IT OUT OF THE HOUSE.
UM, AND, AND I THINK THE PROBLEMS WITH THAT HAVE CREATED THE NEED TO TEST THOSE FANS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE MOVING THE AIR.
I WAS TOLD THAT YOU CAN'T TEST IT WITHOUT PUNCHING A HOLE IN THE LINE.
I WAS TOLD YOU CAN'T REALLY TEST IT OR BE EVEN CONSISTENT WITH THE TEST WITHOUT PUNCHING HOLES IN THE DUCK LINES.
UH, YOU COULD CONCEIVABLY TEST IT WITH THE FLOW HOOD.
I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING THROUGH SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS IN A WORK GROUP WITH THE CITY OF AUSTIN.
UM, SO WOULD, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT IN THE CITY OF AUSTIN WHO HAS ADOPTED THIS, NOBODY KNOWS REALLY WHAT TO DO TO TEST IT, RIGHT? AND SO IT'S NOT WORKING, THE TESTING IS NOT GOING SMOOTH.
IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YOU CAN TEST IT WITH THE FLOW HOOD, BUT I'M, I'M NOT CERTAIN, I MEAN, YOU MIGHT NEED A PTO TUBE IN, IN THE, THE LINE OF FLOW.
[02:15:01]
UM, I KNOW THERE ARE MANUFACTURERS NOW MAKING SENSORS IN THE FAN THEMSELVES THAT THAT WILL TELL YOU WHAT THEY'RE MOVING, BUT I, I, I DON'T KNOW THIS ONE.UNDER THE EXCEPTION WHERE IT SAYS KITCHEN RANGE HOODS THAT ARE DUCTED TO THE OUTSIDE WITH A SIX INCH OR LARGER DUCT AND NOT MORE THAN 90 DEGREE ELBOW OR EQUIVALENT TO, SO THAT'S AN EXCEPTION.
SO IF YOU ADDED BATHROOM FANS TO THAT, WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU HAVE TO TEST? OR IF THEY HAVE MULTIPLE LONGER DUCK ROUNDS BINS.
ISN'T THERE ALREADY A CODE THAT DICTATES HOW, ISN'T THERE ALREADY A CODE THAT DICTATES WHAT THE DUCK RUN CAN BE ON A, ON AN EXHAUST FAN? NO, NO.
THAT'S, THERE'S MANUFACTURERS THERE USED TO BE ON DRYER EXHAUST, BUT NOT ON, UM, EXHAUST FANS FOR BATHS AND FOR, BUT FOR THE KITCHEN VENT, IS THERE, I FEEL LIKE THERE IS NOT IN THE I R C I MEAN THERE'S A, ONCE YOU GET OVER 400 C F M, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MAKEUP AIR THERE.
THERE'S, THERE ARE SOME, BUT, BUT LENGTH OF DRON IS NOT ONE.
AND IT, UM, YEAH, I GUESS AGAIN, I, I DON'T KNOW, I IS THIS DEALT WITH IN MECHANICAL CODE, NOT THE TESTING OF EXHAUST FANS.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S 20 OTHER CITIES IN THE, IN THE STATE LIKE DALLAS, AUSTIN, HOUSTON, THEY'RE ALL ADOPTED, THEY'RE DOING THIS, THEY'RE TESTING THESE, WHAT WE CALL FART FANS.
I MEAN A HANDFUL ARE, YEAH, I MEAN, I MEAN YEAH.
BUT Y'ALL CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT IN AUSTIN, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? WELL, THEY'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT, SO
YEAH, SO I, I MEAN THIS IS, SEEMS REDUNDANT, BUT I, I JUST, UH, I WOULD THINK THAT WE'D EITHER TABLE THIS TILL WE GET SOME MORE INFORMATION OR NOT JUST ADOPT IT.
I THINK WE SHOULD AMEND IT OUT.
SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE A CONSENSUS OF THE COMMITTEE TO AMEND OUT 4 0 3 POINT R 4 0 3 0.63 IN ITS ENTIRETY BECAUSE WE FEEL IT'S NOT ACHIEVABLE OR 'CAUSE IT'S FLATLY RIDICULOUS.
BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE
WELL, IT'S IN THE MEETING MINUTES NOW.
YEAH, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER TO THAT.
UM, BUT YEAH, UM, FOR WHATEVER ALL THE REASONS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, WELL, I JUST, UH, SOME INPUT ON THAT.
SO IF YOU ARE, WHEN I VERY FIRST SAW THIS IN THE CODE, MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEMS, SO SO YOU THINK OF AIR TIGHTNESS WHEN I THINK OF MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEMS, BECAUSE ONCE YOU GET BELOW FIVE AIR CHANGES AN HOUR, THE REALIZATION THAT INDOOR AIR QUALITY CAN SUFFER.
SO YOU'VE GOTTA BRING IN OUTDOOR AIR, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE SPEND, A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY SEALING YOUR HOUSE UP REAL TIGHT SO YOU CAN PLUG IN A FAN TO BRING IN OUTDOOR AIR, WHICH SEEMS RIDICULOUS ON ITS FACE, BUT WHEN YOU LEARN A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS AND WHERE YOU WANT YOUR AIR COMING FROM AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
SO I THOUGHT IT WAS SPECIFIC TO TESTING THAT VENTILATION SYSTEM THAT WAS REQUIRED TO BRING IN OUTDOOR AIR, BUT IT'S NOT, THERE'S ANOTHER ONE I SENT OFF TO I C C FOR AN INTERPRETATION FOR, AND IT'S ACTUALLY ALL OF THE EXHAUST FANS, ALL OF THOSE BATHROOM FANS.
BUT, BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO KNOW THAT ESPECIALLY IN A, A SMALL TIGHT HOME, A SMALLER HOME THAT MAYBE YOU USE FOAM, IT'S ONE AND A HALF AIR CHANGES AN HOUR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, A SMALLER, TIGHTER HOME THAT DOESN'T GET NATURAL AIR INFILTRATION, WHATEVER SYSTEM THAT YOU'VE EMPLOYED THAT IS REQUIRED AS, AS YOUR, WHAT I CONSIDER A WHOLE HOUSE MECHANICAL VENTILATION OR, OR THE MECHANICAL VENTILATION THAT'S REQUIRED FOR BRINGING IN OUTDOOR AIR FOR INDOOR AIR QUALITY.
THAT SYSTEM MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO TEST.
BUT TESTING EVERY BATH FAN, ESPECIALLY SHORTER RUNS.
AND I MEAN SOME, JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND, MIND, SMALLER, TIGHTER HOMES.
YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOUR MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEM'S ONLY BRINGING IN SIX C F M AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE BRINGING IN 75, THAT CAN LEAD TO SOME HEALTH PROBLEMS AND INDOOR AIR QUALITY SIGNIFICANT HEALTH AND INDOOR AIR QUALITY PROBLEMS. PUT THE, THERE'S
[02:20:03]
REQUIREMENT NOW, ISN'T THERE? LIKE, I THINK IT'S 50.YEAH, BUT WE, WE WENT OVER THAT IN THE MECHANICAL SECTION, BUT ON THIS WHERE YOU HAVE A BATHROOM ON A SEPARATE SWITCH THAT YOU'RE DEPENDENT UPON THE USER OF THE BATHROOM TO TURN THE FAN ON TO MAKE IT WORK, TO TEST SOMETHING.
YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I CAN'T, I CAN'T TOW THE COMPANY LINE A HUNDRED PERCENT ON THIS ONE, BUT IT AGAIN, THOUGH, IT DOES.
YES, I DO WORK FOR AN ENERGY EFFICIENCY NON-PROFIT, BUT I ALSO USED TO FRAME HOUSES AND BEING A BE A BUILDING OFFICIAL.
SO THERE'S SOME KIND OF COMMON SENSE APPROACH THAT I TAKE.
AND, AND TO ME IT DOES MAKE SOME COMMON SENSE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR INDOOR AIR QUALITY IS GOOD, BUT WHEN THEY DON'T TURN ON THE BATH FAN ANYWAY, MY WIFE HATES TURNING IT ON 'CAUSE SHE LOVES THAT STEAMY HOT SHOWER IF THEY'RE NOT GONNA TURN IT ON ANYWAY.
WHO, AND IT'S, IT PARTICULARLY, YOU KNOW, THAT EXCEPTION KIND OF LIKE THE KITCHEN RANGEHOOD OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, A, A GOOD STRAIGHT DUCT RUN DIRECTLY TO THE OUTDOORS.
WHY DO WE NEED TO TEST THAT? I, THE, THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY FOLKS THINK WE DO, BUT I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT.
WELL, WHAT IF WE AMENDED IT TO SPECIFY THAT THAT TESTING WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR THOSE WHOLE HOUSE VENTILATION SYSTEMS? I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
WE WOULD BE EXCLUDING THOSE, YOU KNOW, HANDFUL OF JUST BATHROOM EXHAUST FANS AND SAY THIS IS REALLY INTENDED, OR IT MAKES MORE SENSE FOR THE WHOLE HOUSE VENTILATION SYSTEM.
BUT DOESN'T THE WHOLE HOUSE VENTILATION SYSTEM KIND OF GET COVERED IN THE BLOWER DOOR TEST THAT'S HAPPENING ANYWAY.
WHAT I MEAN MEAN THE BLOWER DOOR TEST IS ABOUT THE BUILDING ENVELOPE AND AIR CHANGE.
SO IF THE BLOWER, IF, SO IF THE BUILDING ENVELOPE AND THE AIR EXCHANGE IS SATISFACTORY IN A BLOWER DOOR TEST, WHAT IS THIS EXTRA TEST THAT I'M HAVE TO PAY AND HAVE TO PAY SOMEBODY TO DO ACCOMPLISH FOR ME, THE BLOWER DOOR TEST IS WHAT, SO IN CLIMATE ZONE TWO, YOU HAVE TO GET TO FIVE AIR CHANGES AN HOUR OR LOWER.
AND ONCE YOU GET TO FIVE AIR CHANGES AN HOUR OR LOWER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE WHOLE HOUSE MECHANICAL VENTILATION OR YOU HAVE TO BRING IN OUTDOOR AIR.
AND SO THE BLOWER DOOR TEST JUST CONFIRMS, YES, THIS HOUSE IS TIGHT, IT'S GOING TO BE ENERGY EFFICIENT.
AND THEN THE MECHANICAL VENTILATION TESTING WOULD BE TO SAY, WELL NOW THAT THIS HOUSE, NOW THAT WE KNOW THE HOUSE IS TIGHT, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE BRINGING IN AN ADEQUATE AMOUNT OF OUTDOOR AIR.
BUT ISN'T, BUT ISN'T THAT INCLUDED IN THE AC MECHANICAL MM-HMM.
SO THIS WOULD BE THE TESTING COMPONENT.
YEAH, THIS WOULD JUST BE, YES, THE TESTING COMPONENT TO MAKE, MAKE SURE THAT IT'S WORKING RIGHT BASICALLY IS, IS THE GIST OF IT.
BUT NOT TESTING, YOU KNOW, IN THAT SEVEN BATHROOM HOUSE, NOT HAVING TO TEST THE OTHER SEVEN EXHAUST FANS.
YOU WOULD JUST BE TESTING THE ONE SYSTEM THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE.
AND THERE, THERE'S GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN THE INDUSTRY RELATED TO WHOLE DWELLING MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEM ANYWAY, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE CURRENT PRACTICE IS, I CAN GET INTO THE WEEDS OF THIS ONE TOO, I APOLOGIZE, BUT THE, THE CURRENT PRACTICE DOESN'T WORK FRANKLY BECAUSE MOST BUILDERS ARE USING A SIX INCH DUCT TYPICALLY TO A LITTLE HONEYWELL CONTROLLER THAT GOES INTO THE RETURN PLENUM.
AND, AND FRANKLY THAT'S JUST NOT BRINGING IN THE, IT DOESN'T WORK FOR, AND SO I THINK TESTING IT TO MAKE AND WELL, AND, AND THE WHOLE DWELLING MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEM, FAN EFFICACY TABLE THAT BASICALLY SAYS YOU CAN'T USE YOUR AIR HANDLER ANYMORE FOR THAT.
WHICH MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOUR AIR HANDLER PULLS, IT'S A BIG POWER DRAW.
AND WHY WE WANT, WHY DO WE WANT THAT FAN RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING IN OUTDOOR AIR? YOU REALLY WANT A MORE EFFICIENT FAN AND FOR UNDER A HUNDRED DOLLARS YOU CAN SWITCH FROM THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
AND I UNDERSTAND A HUNDRED DOLLARS COST IS A HUNDRED DOLLARS COST, BUT IT'S SO MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE BECAUSE IT'S, WHEN IT'S 90% HU HUMIDITY OUTSIDE AND 96 DEGREES, YOU DON'T WANT THAT AIR COMING INTO YOUR HOUSE AND, AND IT'S UH, WHEN IT'S TOO HOT, TOO WET, TOO COLD OR DRY, IT REALIZES THAT IN A SHUT.
IN OTHER WORDS, THERE'S SMARTER, MINIMALLY MORE SIGNIFICANT COST.
AND, AND IF YOU STILL WANT TO GO BOTTOM OF THE BARREL COST, YOU CAN STILL JUST USE AN EXHAUST FAN FOR YOUR WHOLE DWELLING MECHANICAL VENTILATION.
SO, BUT ISN'T THAT ALL PART OF THE MECHANICAL SYSTEMS THAT THEY DESIGN AND, AND PUT TOGETHER? I MEAN THAT'S, YOU'RE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SEPARATE SYSTEMS OR ARE ALL IN, I MEAN, OUR MECHANICAL CONTRACTORS, THEY BRING IN THE OUTSIDE AIR.
IT'S ALL PART OF THEIR SYSTEM.
[02:25:01]
BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE THAT AIR HANDLER MOTOR FOR MECHANICAL VENTILATION ANYMORE WITH THE 2021.
SO, BUT THIS IS DEALING WITH VENTILATION SYSTEMS FOR BATHROOMS AND THE KITCHEN AND ALL MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEMS. THE, THE SECTION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, 4 0 3 0.6 0.3, THAT'S ALL MECHANICAL VENTILATION SYSTEMS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE KITCHEN RANGEHOOD, UM, WOULD HAVE TO BE TESTED.
SO I, I'D JUST LIKE TO MOVE AT THIS POINT THAT WE, I CAN'T MOVE IT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE JUST TAKE THAT WHOLE SECTION OUT.
YEAH, WE ALREADY SAID WE WERE GONNA DO THAT.
WE'RE JUST, WE'RE TRY AND PROVIDE THE, THE, THE, THE REASONING TO PROVIDE FOR, FOR, UH, CRYSTAL TO WRITE INTO THE MINUTES.
ALTHOUGH I THINK I ACCIDENTALLY SAID THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD.
UM, AND I SAID IT WAS JUST RIDICULOUS.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE OFFICIAL LINE.
UM, YOU COULD GET THAT QUOTED
IT'S NOT RECORDED OR ANYTHING.
UM, BUT AGAIN, I, I THINK THE IDEA BEING THAT ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU SAID, NOTWITHSTANDING THO THOSE ARE PROBABLY REQUIRE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA BE BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM, BUT THE TEST DOESN'T DOESN'T CHANGE THAT.
I MEAN, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SOMEBODY COME TEST AT YOUR HOUSE, JACK RIGHT BEFORE CLOSING AND TELL YOU YOU HAVE TO REDESIGN YOUR AC SYSTEM.
WE NEED, WE NEED ONE MORE TEST.
I ACTUALLY, WE'RE ONLY UP TO ABOUT 20.
UH, NO, I I SECOND THAT MOTION WHOLEHEARTEDLY.
AND, AND JUST FOR THE RECORD, WE'VE GOT A MILLION, WHAT DO WE GOT? I LOOKED ABOUT 1,000,005 IN OUR CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND THE MOST OF 'EM HAVE OLD HOMES LIKE MINE THAT DON'T EVEN BRING IN ANY FRESH AIR, 26 YEARS OLD.
AND ALL THE FRESH AIR COMES THROUGH THE ATTIC, WHICH IS A NASTY ATTIC, UH, WHICH I'VE GOT ABOUT 12 INCHES OF INSULATION COMES THROUGH MY RECESS CANS.
IT'S THAT SUCKING MOTION THAT I SEE GOING INTO MY FILTER COMES AROUND RECESS CANS.
AND SO WE HAVE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AIR QUALITY, ABOUT THE 1 MILLION, 500,000 PEOPLE THAT ARE ALREADY HERE THAT DON'T HAVE ANY FRESH AIR COMING IN.
WELL, LET'S GIVE IT A PERCENT OR MAYBE 1.4.
LET'S SAY A HUNDRED THOUSAND HAVE GOOD SYSTEMS. SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR THEM.
WE'RE JUST DOING THIS FOR THE FUTURE GUYS.
WELL NOW THEIR, THEIR HOUSES ARE ALREADY LEAKY.
I MEAN THEY'RE ALREADY BRINGING IN FRESH AIR, JUST NATURALLY.
OKAY, JUST A COUPLE MORE ITEMS. ITEM 52, THESE ARE NEW SECTIONS, R 4 0 4 FOR ELECTRICAL POWER AND LIGHTING SYSTEMS. THESE REQUIRE CONTROLS FOR THE EXTERIOR AND INTERIOR LIGHTING.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IS GOING TO BE, THIS IS A NEW REQUIREMENT, CORRECT? YES.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT'S GONNA BE REQUIRED? I'VE BEEN DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE ON THIS ONE TOO, IF YOU WANT ME TO TAKE A SHOT AT IT.
WELL, WE HAVE TWO MINUTES LEFT FOR THIS MEETING.
IT'S QUICK DO RIGHT? ISN'T IT TILL 1130? UH, NO, WE'RE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE UNTIL THE MEETING'S CONCLUDED.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE A HARD STOP OR ANYTHING.
NO, WE DO NOT HAVE A HARD STOP.
BASICALLY YOUR EXTERIOR LIGHTS WHEN THE SUN'S OUT NEED TO GO OFF.
THAT WAS QUICK ABOUT IT BEING ON A DIMMER AND ALL THAT OTHER STUFF.
RIGHT? WELL ON THE INTERIOR AND, AND AGAIN, THIS IS ONE WHERE THE CODE INTENT AND THE CODE INTERPRETATION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
THE INTERIOR BASICALLY SAYS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ON DIMMERS OR OCCUPANCY SENSORS.
BUT THEN IT ALSO SAYS, OR OTHER CONTROL THAT IS INSTALLED AND I C C INTERPRETS THAT AS AN OTHER CONTROL IS A LIGHT SWITCH.
NOW IS IT A GOOD IDEA TO PUT ALL THOSE LIGHTS ON DIMMERS AND OCCUPANCY SENSORS? YES, IT PROBABLY IS, BUT ACCORDING TO ICCS INTERPRETATION OF THIS, A REGULAR OLD SWITCH IS AN OTHER CONTROL.
SO IT EFFECTIVELY MAKES THE INTERIOR LIGHTING CONTROL SECTION NULL AND VOID OR NOT NULL AND VOID.
SO NO DIMMER SWITCHES ON THE INTERIOR, IT WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED.
SO CAN WE GET A CLARIFICATION ON THAT SECTION THAT JUST SAYS WHAT HE SAID, THAT A LIGHT SWITCH IS ONE OF THOSE, YOU WANT TO TIE THAT DOWN OR DO YOU WANT I CAN FORWARD UIC
[02:30:01]
C'S INTERPRETATION.YEAH, BUT I DON'T WANT IT INTERPRETED.
WELL, NO, I MEAN RIGHT NOW IF YOU SAY OTHER CONTROLLED, NOW SOMEBODY HAS TO TELL YOU THAT'S NOT THE OTHER.
I I UNDERSTAND, BUT I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH THE BUILDING INSPECTOR WHEN THEY COME OUT AND SAY YOU HAD TO DO A LIGHT SWITCH A DIMMER BECAUSE IT SAYS IT RIGHT HERE AND THAT'S NOT OTHER CONTROL TO ME COULD MEAN A WHOLE HOUSE.
WELL, WE, WE HAVEN'T WRITTEN AN INFORMATION BULLETIN THAT DEFINES IT, BUT WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS IN PREVIOUS MEETINGS BEFORE THIS MEETING, WE, WE ALL AGREED THAT A SWITCH DOES THE SAME THING.
YOUR STANDARD SWITCHES YOU'RE ALREADY USING TO CONTROL YOUR LIGHTS MEETS THE INTENT OF THIS EXCEPT FOR THE EXTERIOR LIGHTS.
THIS IS, I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE INTERIOR AND THEN I AM ASSUMING THAT THE, WHERE IT SAYS OTHER COMMERCIAL THINGS, IT'S THAT SAME NEEDS TO SHUT DOWN TO 50% AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
NO, IT DOESN'T SPECIFY IN THE RESIDENTIAL.
SO WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THAT 4 0 4 0.2 DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
SO WHY DON'T WE JUST AMEND IT OUT AND WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT INTERPRETATIONS.
I MEAN, IF WE'RE SAYING THAT A LIGHT SWITCH THAT IS STANDARD TO EVERY LIGHT IN THE WORLD IS MEETS THE INTENT, WHICH I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE.
LIKE WHY WOULD THEY WRITE A PARAGRAPH THAT MEANS NOTHING? WELL, AGAIN, SO THE ORIGINAL, UH, I REACHED OUT TO THE ORIGINAL CODE CHANGE PROPONENT AND, AND THE IDEA WAS EXCEPT FOR BATHROOMS, HALLWAYS, LIGHTING'S DESIGNED FOR SAFETY OR SECURITY AND THE EXTERIOR, WHICH IS COVERED IN ANOTHER SECTION, THE INTENT WAS HEY BEDROOMS, LIVING ROOMS, ALL OF THAT, THAT LIGHTING NEEDS TO BE ON DIMMERS OR OCCUPANCY SENSORS.
THAT WAS THE INTENT OF THE CODE CHANGE PROPOSAL.
BUT WHEN YOU SEND OFF TO I C C FOR AN INTERPRETATION, I C C READS THE BLACK AND WHITE AND THE BLACK AND WHITE SAYS DIMMER OCCUPANCY SENSOR OR OTHER CONTROL.
AND SO ACCORDING TO I C C, A REGULAR OLD LIGHT SWITCH IS AN OTHER CONTROL.
SO EFFECTIVELY THERE IS NO CHANGE.
ALRIGHT, WELL I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST WE JUST AMEND OUR 4 0 4 0.2 OUT.
I MEAN IF, IF THAT ALLOWS YOU TO, IF THAT, IF, IF THE SWITCH WORKS REDUNDANT, SOMEBODY GOT PAID TO DO THAT TOO.
THAT OTHER CONTROL MEANS SOME DEVICE THAT DOES THAT.
NO, THEY, THEY WON'T BECAUSE IT'S, THEY, THEY JUST GO BY THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT GOT APPROVED INTENT IS IRRELEVANT TO ICCS INTERPRETATION AND IT'S PRETTY BLACK AND WHITE OR OTHER CONTROL.
I MEAN IT'S, IT'S JUST, IT'S THE SAME WAY.
THE VERBIAGE AND OTHER SECTIONS OF THE CODE ABOUT OTHER THINGS, UH, CONTROL THAT DEF WHAT THAT DEFINITION IS.
YOU WANNA USE A DIMMER SWITCH ON AN L E D WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THERE.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT, THEY THEY DID YEARS AGO.
YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR A DIFFERENT KIND OF SWITCH.
YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR A DIFFERENT KIND OF FIXTURE.
AND NOT ONLY THAT, YOUR ELECTRICIAN'S PROBABLY GONNA WANT MORE MONEY.
THOSE, THOSE SWITCHES ARE DEEPER.
I MEAN THERE'S A VARIETY OF PROBLEMS THAT ARE YEAH, EXACTLY.
UH, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION CRYSTAL, THIS, SINCE THIS WHOLE SECTION R 4 0 4 IS ALL NEW LANGUAGE, IS THERE ANYTHING, UH, BASED ON THE DIALOGUE THAT'S OCCURRED THAT, THAT WE YOU WOULD RECOMMEND THE SEA, WE RECOMMEND WE KEEP OR CAN THAT THEY, THIS, UH, AMENDMENT BE DELETED IN ITS ENTIRETY? SO IS THE RECOMMENDATION TO LOOK AT, AT REMOVING 4 0 4 COMPLETELY OR JUST THE INTERIOR LIGHTING CONTROLS? I SAID 4 0 4.
I I SAID 4 0 4 2 ORIGINALLY, BUT I'M OPEN TO AMENDING THE WHOLE THING THING OUT.
JUST IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO WHEN THE SUN'S OUT FOR YOUR EXTERIOR LIGHTS TO BE OFF, IN MY OPINION.
I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AS LONG, YOU KNOW, AS YOU'RE ABLE, PHOTO CELL IS UNDER $10.
NO, I MEAN I THINK THAT'S A SMART DEAL.
SO JUST, WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'VE AGREED ON.
SO FOR, BUT, UM, 4 0 4 1 1 OR 4 0 4 1 AND THEN 4 0 4 3 FUEL GAS LIGHT OR OKAY, 4 0 4 1 2 FUEL GAS LIGHTING SYSTEMS SHALL NOT HAVE A CONTINUOUSLY BURNING PILOT LIGHT.
[02:35:01]
UH, ANYBODY, WE, WE ALL LIVED THROUGH THE R SNOWMAGEDDON, THEY LASTUM, I THINK THOSE OF US THAT HAD CONTINUOUS BURNING PILOT LIGHTS REALLY APPRECIATED HAVING THEM.
ALL WATER HEATER WAS A GOOD THING.
I MEAN, I WOULD BE, I WOULD IF IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO SUGGEST THAT WE EDIT OUT 4 0 4, OUR 4 0 4 IN ITS ENTIRETY, I WOULD, I WOULD NOT ARGUE WITH YOU.
THE MARKET'S KIND OF TAKING CARE OF EV EVEN THE LOW BUDGET BUILDERS AREN'T PUTTING IN, I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT GETTING INCANDESCENT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I MEAN LEDS ARE SO CHEAP NOW THAT THE MARKET'S TAKING CARE OF THAT FOR THE MOST PART, BULBS AREN'T REALLY AN ISSUE.
I MEAN THE, THE SENSORS ON THE OUTDOOR LIGHTS, IT SOUNDS, IT SOUNDS NICE.
I MEAN IT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TESTING AND, AND REPLACING THOSE LIGHT SENSORS AND IF THE YOU'RE THEY'RE IN THE SHADE OF THE EAVES, THEY DO NOTHING FOR YOU.
I, FOR EASE OF EDITING THE WHOLE THING OUT, I THINK IT'S WORTH, IT'S WORTH IT.
WELL, WE'RE NEUTRAL HERE, YOU GUYS WE'RE, WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD THE CHANGES THAT WE THOUGHT WERE SIGNIFICANT.
OUR, OUR JOB IS TO INTERPRET AND APPLY, UM, THE CODE TO, TO PROJECTS THAT WE REVIEW REALLY, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA SAY YAY OR NAY NO.
I, I'D LIKE TO TABLE IT AND HAVE THEM GO THROUGH AND THE STUFF THAT REALLY MAKES SENSE, LIKE I, I DISAGREE.
I THINK WE SHOULD AMEND OUT THE WHOLE THING.
WHAT DO YOU THINK JOE? ROBERT, JACK.
WELL THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO AMEND IT OUT.
ITEM 53 IS, WHICH IS NOW SECTION R 4 0 6 0.5.
THIS IS FOR THE MAXIMUM ENERGY RATING INDEX.
SO WE ARE PROPOSING TO MODIFY THE AMENDMENT.
SO THE 2018 IDENTIFIED FOR OUR CLIMATE ZONE, THE ENERGY RATING INDEX TO BE 57 AND WE AMENDED THAT TO BE 63.
SO THE 2021 IS IDENTIFYING, UM, HAS CHANGED THAT TO 52 FOR THE E R I.
WE ARE PROPOSING TO KEEP IT AT THE 57 I BELIEVE IS WHAT WE WERE OR 59 STATE CURRENTLY IS 63, IS THAT CORRECT? AND GOES TO 59 IN AUGUST.
THE STATE UH, GOES TO 59, RIGHT CHRIS? YES, THAT'S WHAT WE SPOKE ABOUT.
SO WE WOULD JUST KIND OF PREFER TO FOLLOW THE STATE.
WE CAN'T GO HIGHER THAN THE STATE CAN GO LOWER THAN THE STATE.
WE'RE PROPOSING TO CHANGE THAT AMENDMENT FROM 63 TO 59.
SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT.
OKAY, THE LAST ITEM, ITEM 54, NEW SECTIONS TO R 4 0 8 FOR THE ADDITIONAL ENERGY PACKAGE OPTIONS CLARIFICATION, THESE ARE ALL OPTIONS AS IT SAYS THAT THE HEADING CORRECT, IT'S A PICK ONE
SO THIS IS ALL NEW BUT IT'S NEW WITH OPTIONS.
IS THAT WHAT I'M UNDERSTOOD? CORRECT.
HERE, HERE WE'RE GONNA GET A LITTLE BIT BETTER AND LET'S PICK ONE OF FIVE.
IT, A COUPLE OF THEM ARE PRETTY EASY REACHES.
SO THIS IS KIND OF THE SAME THING THEY DID IN THE COMMERCIAL WITH THOSE 11, CORRECT? THERE'S LESS.
SO IF I PICK OPTION 4 0 8, 0.2 0.2 AND GET THE 16 C OR BETTER AND IT SATISFIES THIS SECTION, DOES THAT ALSO COUNT TO GET ME R SIX INSTALLATION ON MY DUCTS? I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WOULDN'T, I MEAN IT WOULD BE A 16 SEAR AND A 95 SO A, A SEALED COMBUSTION.
OR IF YOU DO A FOAM HOUSE, YOU'RE AUTOMATICALLY THERE
[02:40:01]
BECAUSE YOU HAVE YOUR DUCTS AND CONDITION SPACE.UM, SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOOD WITH THIS SANDWICH.
JOE, DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUE? YOU GOOD? ALRIGHT, JACK AND ROBERT, YOU GUYS GOOD WITH THIS LAST ONE? ALRIGHT, SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE GOOD WITH 54.
SO CRYSTAL, I'M GONNA READ OFF WHAT I HAVE AND YOU TELL ME IF I'M, IF I'M OFF, IF I MISSED ANYTHING.
SO I HAVE THAT WE'VE TABLED 22, 23, 29, 40, 41, 45 AND 47 AND ARE AMENDING OUT ITEMS 51 AND 52 IN THEIR ENTIRETY.
SO I'D ACCEPT THE MOTION TO APPROVE THIS WITH THOSE EXCEPTIONS.
ALL UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION IN FAVOR, GIMME AN AYE AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOOD.
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT AND UH, I ENJOYED THE LIVELY DEBATE.
ALRIGHT, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SO THAT CONCLUDES I THINK EVERYTHING FOR THE, THAT WAS ALL WE'RE GONNA PRESENT.
SO WE HAVE A FEW TABLED ITEMS THAT WE NEED TO COME BACK.
SO WE DO NEED TO DISCUSS A FEW MORE ITEMS HERE.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL BE MOVING INTO, I BELIEVE EV AND SOLAR READY IS KIND OF THE BIG DISCUSSION THAT, I MEAN, TEMAS WILL BE RUNNING OUR DEPUTY DIRECTOR, SO WE'LL PROBABLY BE TOUCHING ON THAT IN THE NEXT MEETING.
SO THE NEXT MEETING IS SCHEDULED FOR 8:30 AM ON MAY 24TH, EXACTLY TWO WEEKS FROM TODAY, UH, TO CONTINUE THE ENERGY CODE REVIEW.
UM, IF YOU'LL GIMME THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT.
THIS WILL BE UP HERE IN THE MORNING, CORRECT? 8:30 AM PERFECT.
HEY JEREMY, JUST LIKE A QUICK QUESTION.
BESIDES THE GOOD TACOS, CARNE GADA WOULD BE NICE.
UM,
HAS ANYBODY GIVEN US ANY ESTIMATES OR DOES MEAN, I APOLOGIZE, THE TWO INDIVIDUALS I KNOW WE HAD, UH, OFFICE OF SUSTAINABILITY, IT WAS HERE A LITTLE BIT IN AM MEAN, BUT I WILL BRING THAT UP WITH THEM.
I, I THINK THE ATTEND IS TO HAVE, I I JUST THINK EVERYTHING READY TO GO RIGHT.
TO BE A MORE PRODUCTIVE MEETING.
IT'D BE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ULTIMATE QUESTION WE'RE GOING TO DECIDE ON HAVING HOMES SOLAR READY FOR SOMEBODY TO DO WHEN, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD OF 300 THAT I HAVE AND I'M JUST, PERCENTAGE WISE, I HAVE MAYBE TWO OR THREE A YEAR TO DECIDE TO SPEND THE $20,000 THAT THEY'LL NEVER RECOVER.
BUT I'M, I'M OKAY WITH WHATEVER SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO.
BUT IF WHEN WE'RE GONNA, IF WE'RE GONNA IMPLEMENT SOMETHING THAT SAYS EVERYBODY'S GOTTA DO SOMETHING AND HAVE THEIR HOUSE SOLD READY FOR WHEN THEY WANNA DO IT, IF THEY WANT DO IT, AND A TESLA READY FOR THE ONE IN 50 THAT DO IT, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH DOES THAT COST? THAT'S, WE OUGHT TO HAVE THAT COST GOING IN AS WELL AS THE INCREASE IN COST OF DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOT TO BRING THAT EXTRA POWER CAPABILITY TO 300 HOMES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T RUN THE SAME SIZE WIRE AS WELL AS TO PUT IN THAT, UH, EV CHARGING IN THE HOUSE.
THAT IS THE RAPID, THE THREE PHASE RAPID, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE NOT BRINGING THREE PHASE INTO THE LOT DEVELOPMENT AT ALL.
I THINK ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE FIGURED OUT.
AND IF WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, SKIP THE MEETING TO HAVE AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, GET MORE TIME FOR SOMEBODY TO FIGURE THAT OUT, THAT WOULD BE NICE.
YOU CAN DO, NO, NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT ADVOCATING EITHER WAY.
I'M JUST SAYING WHAT THE PROPO, WHATEVER THE PROPOSAL IS THAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT READY, THAT'S A COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT PREPARED.
BUT THAT IS A, THAT IS AN ABSOLUTE COST.
AND I, I JUST DID A VERY SMALL SUBDIVISION IN CASTROVILLE.
IT'S NOT THESE, THE MEGA THOUSANDS, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S SUCH A TRUE, AND THE ONLY ONE THAT'S GONNA ANSWER THAT IS SOME, THE, THE DESIGNERS THAT DESIGN, WHETHER IT BE C P S BUT IN OUTLYING AREAS, THE, THE THE ONES THAT ARE GONNA ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE.
WHEN YOU SAY WE'RE GONNA INCREASE ACROSS THE BOARD, WHAT IS THAT
[02:45:01]
SIZING REQUIREMENT COST TO REALLY HAVE THAT NUMBER? GOTCHA.NO, I'LL, I'LL BRING THAT UP TO, I MEAN, TOMASA MAKE SURE THAT, AND I WANT TO THANK JASON.
I, I DO WANNA SAY REAL QUICK THAT, THAT WE ARE LOOKING TO YOU GUYS ALSO TO BRING THOSE COST ESTIMATES FORWARD, RIGHT? YOU'RE IN THE TRADE, YOU'RE DOING IT EVERY DAY.
YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE COST IMPLICATIONS ARE, UM, WE'RE NOT, RIGHT? SO FOR STAFF TO TRY TO PROVIDE THOSE NUMBERS IS NOT GONNA BE AS ACCURATE AS YOU GUYS LOOKING TO YOUR ESTIMATORS AND TO YOUR CONTRACTORS, UH, TO DETERMINE THOSE, THOSE COST IMPACTS.
WELL, AND AND I I DON'T HAVE ANY DISAGREEMENT WITH THAT AT ALL.
SOMEBODY'S GOTTA GIVE US THOSE NUMBERS TO, TO WHAT TO CALCULATE TO, TO GIVE TO, UH, ONE OF THESE DESIGNERS AND, AND THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO USES C P S C P SS DOES THE DESIGNS AND THEY, THEY DON'T CHARGE WHAT MY INDEPENDENT GUY CHARGES PER HOUR BECAUSE THEY SHOULD DO IT AS A SERVICE TO US, AS OUR UTILITY COMPANY.
SO THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO GIVE US THOSE CALCULATIONS, WANT TO JUST USE A FIVE, A 500, YOU KNOW, UNIT DEVELOPMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
'CAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST KINDA SITTING HERE SHOOTING FROM THE HIP.
I'LL TALK TO, I MEAN, TO MAKE SURE THAT'S WHEN THEY GEN.
WELL THIS HAS BEEN UP HERE FOR A WHILE NOW.
UH, ONCE AGAIN, WE'VE BROUGHT IT UP MANY TIMES.
SO ANYBODY WANTS TO GO AND SEE ALL THIS ON OUR WEBSITE, WATCH THE VIDEOS OR EMAIL US.
UH, THESE ARE OUR POINTS OF CONTACT.
AND THAT CONCLUDES EVERYTHING I HAVE.
HAVE A GREAT REST OF YOUR WEEK.