* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:08] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE [3:00 P.M. – Call to Order] HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, MAY 18TH, 2022. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH HERE. SAVINO. HERE. VELAZQUEZ. HERE. MORALES. ZUKA. HERE. CARPENTER. HERE. GROUP. HERE. CERVANTES. HERE. FETZER HERE IN GIBBS. YEAH. . IT'S LIKE I KNOW YOU'RE HERE. ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A QUORUM. UH, BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE DO HAVE A BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING INTERPRETIVE SERVICES FOR THE MEETING. GOOD AFTERNOON. S WE ABOUT THE CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT, PLEASE. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE-CHAIR SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY AND THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH THIS MEETING THROUGH LIVESTREAM VIA THE CITY'S WEBSITE. FOLLOWING THE MEETING, A RECORDING WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH AND ENGLISH. FOR THOSE APPLICANTS OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT REQUIRE INTERPRETIVE SERVICES, THE INTERPRETER WILL TRANSLATE OVER THE PHONE AS NECESSARY OR IN PERSON. APPLICANTS ARE ASKED TO KEEP PEN PRESENTATIONS AS BRIEF AS POSSIBLE TO ALLOW TIME FOR DISCUSSION. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO ARE SPEAKING IN SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION EACH HAVE A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES FOR THEIR COMMENTS. COMMISSIONERS WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS REGARDING EACH APPLICATION. MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION AS WELL AS MANY APPLICANTS ARE PARTICIPATING VIRTUALLY TODAY. WE ASK THAT THOSE WHO ARE ATTENDING EITHER IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY SPEAK CLEARLY INTO A MICROPHONE SO EVERYONE CAN HEAR ALL COMMENTS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. DIFFICULT QUESTIONS, TOUGH CHALLENGES TO A PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW AND CRITICISM OF IDEAS AND INFORMATION ARE LEGITIMATE ELEMENTS OF A FREE DEMOCRACY IN ACTION. THIS DOES NOT ALLOW, HOWEVER, COMMISSIONERS, STAFF MEMBERS, APPLICANTS, OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO MAKE BELLIGERENT PERSONAL IMPER IMPERTINENT OR THREATENING COMMENTS. ALL THOSE ATTENDING EITHER IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY MUST HONOR THE ROLE OF THE CHAIR IN MAINTAINING ORDER. THEY MUST ALSO PRACTICE CIVILITY, PROFESSIONALISM, AND DECORUM IN DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATE. AT THIS TIME, I WILL ASK O H P STAFF TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INSTRUCTIONS FOR TODAY'S MEETING. UH, YES. THANK YOU. UM, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ITEMS OF BUSINESS. UM, THE FIRST IS WE NEED TO, UH, ELECT, LET'S DO THIS FIRST. IT'S ON THE SCREEN. SO WE HAVE UPCOMING H D R C DATES. UM, I WANNA JUST TALK ABOUT THIS. UM, AS YOU KNOW, UM, WE, WE DID A BRIEFING ON U D C AMENDMENTS PROPOSED BY O H P IN DECEMBER WHEN WE HAD OUR ANNUAL TRAINING. UM, AND SO AS YOU KNOW, WE HAD, UH, SEVERAL, ACTUALLY ABOUT THREE DOZEN AMENDMENTS THAT O H P STAFF HAD DRAFTED, UH, FOR CONSIDERATION THROUGH THE PROCESS FOR, UH, THE U D C UPDATE CYCLE. UM, AND ALL THIS SPRING, THE, UH, PLANNING TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE HAS BEEN MEETING TO REVIEW THOSE AMENDMENTS AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. AND SO I'M HAPPY TO REPORT THAT ALL OF OUR AMENDMENTS HAVE PASSED AND ARE GOING THROUGH THE ADOPTION PROCESS AND THOSE, SO THAT'LL BE THE NEXT STEP IS OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. UM, SO THOSE WILL BE COMING YOUR WAY, UM, IN JULY. UM, AS WELL AS A FEW OTHER ADDITIONAL AMENDMENTS THAT WILL BE WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE H C R C THAT WERE SUBMITTED BY OTHER, UH, AUTHORS. UM, SO WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS KINDA WHAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN IS THAT OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING ON JUNE 1ST IS HAVE A WORK SESSION BEGINNING AT TWO 15, UM, IN THIS ROOM WHERE WE WOULD JUST KIND OF REFRESH YOUR MEMORY ABOUT THOSE AMENDMENTS AND KIND OF TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE DETAILS AND THE LANGUAGE ASSOCIATED WITH EACH OF THOSE. UM, AND THEN IF WE NEEDED MORE TIME, WE WOULD DO THAT AGAIN ON JUNE 15TH, WHICH, WHICH WOULD BE THE NEXT MEETING. UM, ONE THING WE NEED ACTION ON FROM YOU IS [00:05:01] OUR, OUR NORMAL SCHEDULE WOULD SAY WE MEET ON JUNE, UH, EXCUSE ME, JULY 6TH NEXT. UM, BUT WE HAVE A FIFTH WEDNESDAY IN JUNE WHERE WE COULD POTENTIALLY MOVE THE JULY MEETING TO JUNE 29TH, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE DO HAVE VACATION AROUND THAT, THAT 4TH OF JULY WEEK. AND SO IT WOULD PROBABLY BE BETTER OFF IF WE WERE TO MOVE IT JUST IN TERMS OF, UM, QUORUM AND SCHEDULES. UM, SO I'M GONNA, WE DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE TODAY, BUT I'M . I AM GONNA PULL YOU ALL FOR AVAILABILITY LATER AND KIND OF PREFERENCE ON, ON THAT DATE. UM, IF WE DO MOVE THAT TO THE, TO THE JUNE 29TH DATE, WE WOULD NOT MEET ON JULY 6TH, AND WE WOULD HAVE ACTION ON THE AMENDMENTS ON JULY 20TH. UM, SO JUST, I WANTED TO PROVIDE THIS KIND OF CONTEXT AS WE LOOK AT THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS UNDER PLANNING, UH, SUMMER SCHEDULES FOR ALL OF YOU. UM, WE'LL DO SOME POLLING. WE'LL MAKE A DECISION AND THEN, UM, AT THE NEXT MEETING, HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE A CHANGE TO THE SCHEDULE AND THE AGENDA FOR YOU TO TAKE ACTION ON. ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? OKAY. UM, THE OTHER THING IS WE NEED TO ACT OR ELECT A TEMPORARY, UH, VICE CHAIR. UM, THE MAIN DUTY OF THE VICE CHAIR IS TO ACT IN THE ABSENCE OF THE CHAIR, AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT VIRTUALLY UNDER THE, UM, THE RULES. AND SO, UM, SCOTT WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SERVE, UM, IN PLACE OF JEFF FOR A RECUSAL THAT HE HAS. AND SO WE DO NEED TO, UM, TAKE NOMINATIONS AND, UH, ELECT A ACTING VICE CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A NOMINATION OF COMMISSIONER FISH. I SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THANK YOU. DID WE NEED A ROLL CALL FOR THAT? NO, I, I THINK WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, THE NEXT ITEM IS [Approval of Minutes] APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM MAY 4TH. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR MAY 4TH AS SUBMITTED. I SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. SORRY, THAT'S ME. KRISTEN'S OUT FISH. AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. FETZER. AYE. GIBBS? YES. MOTION CARRIES. UM, SO [CONSENT AGENDA Items are placed on the consent agenda when staff recommends approval or recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant agrees to. Any member of the public desiring to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and be heard prior to voting on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda and have it placed on the individual consideration agenda. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.  ] ON THE SCREEN YOU CAN SEE THE FIRST 15 ITEMS ARE A CONSENT AGENDA. EDWARD, IF YOU CAN ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT, UM, I WILL NOTE THAT YOU HAVE LETTERS IN YOUR PACKETS FOR SOME OF THOSE ITEMS, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE ANY VOICEMAILS OR SPEAKERS PRESENT SIGNED IN TO SPEAK ON THE ITEM. ANY ITEMS? UM, I WILL NOTE. AND EDWARD, IF YOU CAN WRITE IN THAT WE HAVE A RECUSAL FROM, UH, CHAIRMAN FETZER FOR ITEM NUMBER FIVE 200 EAST GRAYSON. AND THEN I WILL LEAVE IT UP TO YOU, MR. FETZER, IF YOU WANNA RECUSE FROM THE VOTE ON CONSENT OR IF YOU JUST WANNA PULL THAT ITEM FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION, I'LL RECUSE ON THE ENTIRE CONSENT AGENDA. DO COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY OTHER ITEMS FOR IN? OKAY, I'D LIKE TO POLL NUMBER 10. MOVE TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA. WELL, IF THERE, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER RECUSALS THAT'S A MOTION. DO I, IF I HAVE A MOTION, DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. I HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE. I'M SORRY. I, WE DIDN'T CLEARLY SAY WHAT NUMBERS OF THE CONSENT AGENDA, BUT WAS IT CLEAR? IT'LL BE ITEMS ONE THROUGH NINE AND THEN 11 THROUGH 15 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. WHY, WHY DON'T WE GET A FRESH MOTION WITH YEAH. YEP. SORRY, I GOT CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE, SO I WAS LIKE, SORRY. MOTION TO APPROVE. CONSENT AGENDA ITEM ONE THROUGH NINE, 11 THROUGH 15 WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS. I HAVE MOTIONS. DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. SECOND. HAVING A MOTION AND A SECOND. UH, CALL FOR A ROLL CALL. VOTE SAVINO. AYE. VELASQUEZ AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GRO AYE. CERVANTES? YES. FETZER IS RECUSED IN GIBBS. AYE. AND FISH. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 5 0 8 MASON, 40 0 2 ROOSEVELT, 3,100 ROOSEVELT, 1200 EAST COMMERCE 200 EAST GRAYSON FIVE 10 EAST LOCUST TWO 16 CAMARGO, 1 43 LAVERA, ONE 15 EAST AGARITA 3 21 WEST SUMMIT, 3 27 FLORIDA, 5 31 EAST CARSON, 1502 BUENA VISTA, AND 2 55 AND 2 59 BRAHAM TWO 11 AND TWO 15 HAYWOOD. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT [00:10:01] A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAIL TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. OKAY. UM, SO WE WILL [INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION  ] START WITH ITEM 10, WHICH WAS PULLED. UM, I HAVE THE APPLICANT, MEGAN SILVERMAN. MEGAN, YOU'LL HAVE TO UNMUTE YOURSELF. HELLO? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. SO COMMISSIONER SABINO. UH, THANKS. YEAH, I WANTED TO PULL THIS FOR A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT REASONS. UM, UH, FIRST OF ALL, I FELT LIKE THE, THE WORDING AND THE FINDINGS AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE NOT PERFECTLY COORDINATED. SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WHATEVER, UM, WAS DECIDED WAS ACCURATELY DISPLAYED ON THE FILE. AND THEN IN THE, UH, C O A SUBSEQUENT C O A, UM, LET'S SEE, I'M GONNA GO TO THE PAGE. UM, I WAS PART OF A GROUP THAT HAD A SITE VISIT THERE, AND WHAT WE, UM, DECIDED, OR WHAT WE OBSERVED AND DECIDED WAS THE BEST OR THE BEST MOVES WERE PRETTY MUCH WHAT IS OUTLINED ON FINDINGS ITEM E. SO I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S CLEAR, THAT THE, UM, FOR RECOMMENDATION OR FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE, NO PAINTING OR LIME WASHING ON THE BRICK IS TO OCCUR. NUMBER TWO, ITEM B SHUTTERS ARE INSTALLED ONLY ON THE FRONT TWO WINDOWS WHERE WE FOUND ANCHOR BOLT HOLES IN THE GROUT AS WELL AS OVER PAINTING ON THE BRICK TO SHOW THAT THERE WERE SHUTTERS THERE AT ONE TIME. UM, AND ALSO REPLACEMENT WINDOWS WITH AN ALUMINUM WINDOW WITH MILL FINISH OR ANODIZED OR CLEAR FINISH WITH TWO OVER TWO MULLINS IT SHOULD READ. AND, UM, OUR DECISION WAS BASED ON THE ROLE OF THAT ALUMINUM WINDOW IN A MINIMAL RANCH HOUSE. OUR O H P GUIDELINES DON'T TALK ABOUT THIS STYLE THAT IS 50 YEARS OLD NOW. AND, UM, WE FELT THAT REPLACING THE VINYL WINDOWS WITH A WOOD OR A CLAD, UH, WINDOW THAT MET STAFF POLICY OR DEPARTMENT POLICY WAS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THAT STYLE. UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD ADDRESS IN THE FUTURE IS OUTLINING, UH, GUIDELINES FOR THIS PARTICULAR STYLE. UM, IT'S NEW, IT'S VERY DIFFERENT THAN OUR RAISED WOOD FRAME PUR AND BEAM WOOD WINDOWS, BUT IT IS, IT HAS A PLACE IN HISTORY. SO, UM, I, UH, UNLESS SOMEBODY HAS OTHER COMMENTS TO MAKE ABOUT IT, I DO WANT TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE A FINDINGS A THROUGH C. UH, I, I'LL SECOND IT. I JUST WANTED TO, OKAY. I I WAS JUST, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THE TWO OVER TWO MULLIN, IT'S THREE OVER TWO, AND THEN ON THE SIDE WINDOWS, THEY'RE SLIDERS. SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO SPECIFY THAT ON THE, UM, THE, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. I WAS JUST GONNA ADD WHY DOESN'T SU SHE SUBMIT A FINAL, UM, LIKE PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS OF ALL THE WINDOWS TO STAFF, BUT UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT'S OKAY, THAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO IT AS WELL. MR. CHAIR, I JUST, JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE UNDERSTANDING WHAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROTOCOL IS. WE HAVE A A, A MOTION AND A SECOND, AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE DISCUSSION, BUT YOU'D HAVE TO RECOGNIZE A SECOND AND THEN THE MAKER OF THE MOTION OR THE SECOND CAN BEGIN THE DISCUSSION. I WOULD IMAGINE JUST ADDING A COMMENT TO THE MOTION. NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M JUST, JUST SO THAT, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS. LET'S SEE. MS. SAVINA, HAVE YOU MADE A FULL FORMAL MOTION? UH, NO. THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION FOR A MOTION. OKAY. SO ANY DISCUSSION BEFORE THE MOTION? WELL, YES. OKAY. UM, THE, THE, THE ISSUE WITH THE, WITH THE LANGUAGE, AND I, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER SABINO. THE, THE ISSUE WITH THE LANGUAGE IN THE RECOMMENDATION IS THAT IT, IT, IT LEAVES IT ON STAFF, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT INSTALL WINDOWS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR REPLACEMENT WINDOWS. AND THEN WHEN YOU GO TO THE FINDINGS AND YOU HIT THE WINDOW AREA, IT SAYS APPLICANT PROPOSED REPLACE EXISTING ALUMINUM WINDOWS. AND, BUT IT DOES THE SAME THING ABOUT GUIDELINES AND, AND THE WINDOW'S NOT IN GUIDELINES. UM, AND THIS IS NOT A, UM, A CASE THAT DOESN'T COME UP QUITE OFTEN, UH, WITH THIS ALUMINUM WINDOW THAT IS THE, PRETTY MUCH THE, THE LOWEST STANDARD OF WINDOW, EVEN IN THE TIME THAT THEY BUILT THIS HOUSE. SO IT SPEAKS TO AFFORDABILITY. IT, IT SPEAKS TO THE IDEA THAT THERE WERE HOUSES [00:15:01] THAT WERE BUILT THAT WERE INTENTIONALLY BUILT, THE MINIMAL STANDARD, AND THAT THE WINDOWS THAT WERE AVAILABLE WERE NOT THE MOST, UM, UM, UM, IMPRESSIVE WINDOW. THEY WERE ACTUALLY THE MOST AFFORDABLE WINDOW. SO THAT WOULD STILL BE A WINDOW THAT YOU WOULD PULL OFF THE SHELF. UM, NOW TO REPLACE THE WINDOW CREATES AN ARGUMENT. IT CREATING, UH, REPLACING THE WINDOW WITH A WINDOW OF A HIGHER STANDARD CREATES AN ARGUMENT OF AFFORDABILITY, RIGHT? SO IF WE APPLY AN EQUITY LENS TO THIS, IN WHICH CASE IT'S THE MOST APPROPRIATE SITUATION TO LOOK AT A HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT FOR AFFORDABILITY. AND TO SAY THAT THE STANDARD OF THE, THE ARCHITECTURAL DIALOGUE THAT'S CREATED BY THIS HOUSE, IT, IT BUILT INTO THAT DIALOGUE IS AFFORDABILITY, RIGHT? SO AS THEY, THEY PRESENTED ONE OF THE MOST AFFORDABLE WINDOWS, THAT'S A VINYL WINDOW, BUT OF COURSE THERE'S AN ALUMINUM, UH, VERSION OF THAT WINDOW, RIGHT? OF THE PLY GYM WOULD SELL A VINYL VERSION AND AN ALUMINUM WINDOW. THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR TO EACH OTHER. AND WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF AFFORDABILITY, THEY STAY WITHIN THAT. IF A PERSON WAS TO GO AND LOOK FOR HOW COULD, THEY COULD REMANUFACTURE A WINDOW THAT LOOKED JUST LIKE THIS WINDOW, THEY, THEY PROBABLY, PROBABLY WOULDN'T FIND AN OPTION. NOW, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, THE LANGUAGE THAT SHOULD BE INFORMING STAFF AS TO WHAT'S APPROPRIATE SHOULD BEGIN WITH THE, WITH A DIALOGUE OF AFFORDABILITY. SO, UH, I I, I, I, I'M, I'M NOT GOING TO, UH, UM, UH, TRY TO FIND NECESSARILY A SOLUTION, UH, BUT WHATEVER SOLUTION, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE ARCHITECTURAL DIALOGUE RIGHT, THAT THAT DEFINES THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT, THAT DOESN'T EXIST, THAT THAT DIALOGUE SHOULD BE LED BY AFFORDABILITY. THANK YOU. THOSE COMMENTS? THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. SO COMMISSIONER SAVINO, YOU WANT TO WELL, I WOULD, UH, YES, I'D LIKE TO COMMENT ON THAT, UH, DISCUSSION. UM, YES, THE WINDOWS, ALUMINUM WINDOWS IN A RANCH, POST-WAR RANCH HOUSE ARE DONE IN PART FOR AFFORDABILITY. UM, AND IT WAS ALSO A INDICATION OF MODERN MATERIALS, MODERN USE OF MATERIALS, UM, AFTER THE WAR. AND WHILE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS ARE USING STEEL, THERE'S A RACE BY RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, RESIDENTIAL HOUSES OF A NEW TYPE, WHICH IS A RANCH, A STYLIZED RANCH TO USE ALUMINUM WINDOWS. THEY ALL USED IT, WHETHER IT WAS A HIGH DOLLAR HOUSE, A EXPENSIVE HOUSE IN A, UM, UP AND COMING SUBURB OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN, OR IF IT WAS IN A, UM, IN A MORE MODEST NEIGHBORHOOD. ALUMINUM WAS THE STANDARD. IT WAS THE STYLIZED STANDARD IN A, IN A SMALL HOUSE WHERE YOU HAVE SMALL PUNCHED WINDOWS, THAT THIN ALUMINUM FRAME, AND THAT REFLECTIVE FRAME ACTUALLY OPENS UP THE WINDOW FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE LIGHT, A WOODEN WINDOW WITH A LARGER SASHES OR, YOU KNOW, LARGER RAIL AND STYLE DIMENSION ACTUALLY CLOSE IN THAT WINDOW AND MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT DARKER. SO IT CONTRIBUTES TO THE AESTHETIC OF THAT RANCH, IN ADDITION TO BEING THE AFFORDABLE AND REALLY ONE OF THE FEW AVAILABLE PRODUCTS AT THAT TIME. SO, UM, AS WOOD IS LOSING FAVOR, ALUMINUM BECOMES THE NEXT THING. IT WASN'T SO MUCH NOWADAYS WE'RE LUCKY WE HAVE A HYBRID OF OPTIONS, WOOD, METAL, CLAD STEEL, PLASTIC, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S THE RIGHT WINDOW FOR THE RIGHT PROJECT REQUIRES EVEN A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSIDERATION HERE. BACK IN THE DAY WHEN THEY WERE DOING THESE HOUSES, HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AT A TIME, IT WAS ALUMINUM. IT WAS ALUMINUM. SO, UM, MY, UM, MY COMMENTS ARE BASICALLY TO PRESERVE THAT RANCH AESTHETIC. IT MAY NOT BE DEFINED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AS BEING SIGNIFICANT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE UNDERCUTTING THAT STYLE IF WE WANTED TO PUT, UH, AN OLDER WOOD WINDOW IN. IT'S DENYING THAT PART OF OUR HISTORY OF HOUSING AS WELL AS MANUFACTURING. SO FOR THAT REASON, I, UM, UM, I WANT TO, UM, RECOMMEND THAT WINDOW OR A WINDOW THAT EMULATES AN ALUMINUM WITH THAT ALUMINUM FINISH. UH, MR. CHAIR, JUST, JUST TO, UH, ONE MOMENT. CONTINUE THAT DIALOGUE. ONE MOMENT. YES, SIR. LET'S SEE IF OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE COMMENTS. YES, I THINK YOU'RE BOTH AGREEING. UM, I THINK THE REASON WHY STAFF CAN'T PUT IT IN THE COMMENTS BASED ON AN A H D R C, SORRY, A D R C VISIT, IT'S, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TO DO THAT MOTION AND JUST DIFFER. AND IF THE APPLICANT AGREES I SAY YOU, WE ARE READY FOR THAT MOTION. I THINK MOST APPLICANTS HERE AGREE WITH BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE REPLACING IN KIND, RIGHT? AND THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED. [00:20:01] OKAY. YEAH, LET'S MOVE. I FOUND A WINDOW, UH, THROUGH DON YOUNG WINDOWS THAT IS ALUMINUM AND CAN LOOK, HAS THE SILVER FINISHED, AND THAT WAY TOO, UM, YOU HAVE THE MORE OPEN WINDOW 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE THE THINNER SASH. AND, AND I TRIED TO INCLUDE THAT IN THIS HEARING, BUT I DIDN'T GET THE PAPERWORK OVER THERE IN TIME, I GUESS. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO LET ME SEE IF I CAN MAKE THE MOTION THAT IS ACCURATE AND WE'LL, WE'LL HOLD WATER HERE. UM, UH, LET'S SEE TO THE REQUEST, UM, DENY ITEM NUMBER ONE, JUST TINTING THE BRICK REQUEST FOR REPLACING EXISTING ALUMINUM WINDOWS. DENY, BUT WITH THE STIPULATION OF REPLACING WINDOWS WITH AN ALUMINUM WOOD WINDOW WITH MILL FINISH AND ANODIZED TWO OVER TWO MILLIONS TO MATCH EXISTING OR IN KIND AND TO THE REQUEST OF ADDING LOUVER SHUTTERS EXCEPT TO ADD LOUVER SHUTTERS THAT ARE STYLISTICALLY APPROPRIATE TO THE FRONT TWO WINDOWS. DOES THAT WORK? DOES THAT MOTION WORK FOR STAFF? YES, WE UNDERSTAND IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? A SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. I'M SO SORRY. THAT'S USUALLY NOT ME, SO I'M, I'M OFF SCHEDULE HERE. UH, FISH. AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRO AYE. CERVANTES? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA ITEM 16. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 22 49 1 11 WEST CROCKETT. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL SIGNAGE AT ONE 11 WEST CROCKETT. WITHIN THIS REQUEST, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED TO INSTALL ONE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTER SIGN. READ FAT TUESDAY TO BE LOCATED ON THE SOUTH FACADE OF THE BUILDING. THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE WILL FEATURE AN OVERALL WIDTH, THE 15 FEET, 11 AND SEVEN EIGHTHS OF AN INCH, AND AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF TWO FEET, FIVE AND ONE EIGHTHS OF AN INCH FOR A TOTAL SIZE OF APPROXIMATELY 38.81 SQUARE FEET. THIS SIGN IS IDENTIFIED AS SIGN SS ONE IN THE APPLICATION DOCUMENTS TWO, INSTALL ONE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTER SIGN TO READ FAT TUESDAY TO BE LOCATED ON THE NORTH RIVER FACING FACADE OF THE BUILDING. UH, THIS SIGN IS IDENTICAL IN SIZE TO ITEM NUMBER ONE THREE, INSTALL ONE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LITTER SIGN TO READ FAT TUESDAY TO BE LOCATED ABOVE THE SOUTHEAST CORNER ENTRANCE. THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE WILL FEATURE AN OVERALL WIDTH OF TWO FEET, 10 AND A HALF INCHES IN AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF THREE FEET, FIVE INCHES FOR A TOTAL SIZE OF APPROXIMATELY 9.82 SQUARE FEET. AND FOUR, INSTALL ONE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED BLADE SIGN. READ FAT TUESDAY TO BE LOCATED ON THE NORTH RIVER FACING FACADE OF THE BUILDING. THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE WILL FEATURE AN OVERALL WIDTH OF THREE FEET NINE INCHES, AND AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF TWO FEET AN INCH FOR A TOTAL SIZE OF 19.22 SQUARE FEET, INCLUDING BOTH SIDES. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE. ITEM NUMBER ONE, A WALL SIGN ON THE SOUTH FACADE BASED ON FINDING C WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE FEATURE METAL FACES AND INDIRECT OR HALO ILLUMINATION STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. THE INSTALLATION OF A WALL SIGN ON THE NORTH RIVER FACADE BASED ON FINDING D STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT INSTALL SIGNAGE THAT DOES NOT EXCEED EIGHT SQUARE FEET TOTAL, INCLUDING BOTH SIDES AND SIGNAGE THAT FEATURES INDIRECT LIGHTING ON THE RIVER FACING FACADE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE, THE INSTALLATION OF A WALL SIGN AT THE SOUTHEAST ENTRANCE BASED ON FINDING E WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE FEATURE METAL FACES AND INDIRECT OR HALO ILLUMINATION STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FOUR. THE INSTALLATION OF A BLADE SIGN ON THE RIVER FACADE STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT INSTALL SIGNAGE. IT DOES NOT EXCEED EIGHT SQUARE FEET TOTAL, INCLUDING BOTH SIDES. AND THAT SIGNAGE FEATURES, EXCUSE ME, IN SIGNAGE THAT FEATURES INDIRECT LIGHTING ON THE RIVER FACADE. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT TOTAL SIGNAGE ON THE RIVER FACADE NOT EXCEED EIGHT SQUARE FEET PER THE U D C SECTION. 35,681, A REFACE OF THE EXISTING BLADE SIGN WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, MR. BRENT ADCOCK IS HERE VIRTUALLY? [00:25:01] YES, SIR. MR. EDCOCK, UH, I'M GETTING HIM RIGHT NOW. ARE YOU THERE? YES. OKAY. HERE. YOU'RE ALL RIGHT, SIR. UM, DO YOU AGREE WITH ANY OR ALL OF THE STAFF'S, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS? WE DO, YEAH. I TALKED TO MY CLIENT AND, UM, YEAH, THEY'LL, WE'LL MAKE THE REVISED, UH, ARTWORK MATCH WHAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS CALL FOR THE, UH, HALO ILLUMINATION FOR NUMBER ONE, WE WILL SHRINK DOWN THE SIZE OF THE SIGN FOR NUMBER TWO AND MAKE THAT A, UH, HALO ILLUMINATED SIGN. UM, AND THEN SAME THING WITH THREE, AND THEN, UH, FOUR FOR THE BLADE SIGN, WE'LL SHRINK THAT DOWN TO EIGHT SQUARE FEET. SO YEAH, WE, WE AGREE WITH EVERYTHING. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, EDWARD, WOULD THAT SATISFY THE EIGHT SQUARE FEET MAX FOR THE RIVER FACADE? WELL, I, I DO WANT TO KNOW, UM, THAT STAFF HAS PROVIDED A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE FOUR, UH, REQUEST ITEMS. BUT THE U D C ACTUALLY NOTES EIGHT SQUARE FEET TOTAL PER RIVER FACADE, OR EIGHT SQUARE FEET TOTAL PER BUSINESS, UH, FACING THE RIVER. UH, SO THAT EIGHT SQUARE FEET WOULD EITHER NEED TO BE LIMITED TO THE EXISTING, UH, BLADE SIGN OR A NEW WALL SIGN. UM, WHAT STAFF IS SIMPLY SAYING IS THE APPLICANT COULD, IN LIEU OF WHAT'S PROPOSED HERE, JUST REFACE THE EXISTING SIGN, UH, ADMINISTRATIVELY. UH, BUT THERE, THERE, THE U D C DOES NOT ALLOW, UNLESS THE COMMISSION APPROVES IT. UH, THE U D C DOES NOT ALLOW, UM, AN EXISTING SIGN. AND THEN IN ADDITION TO THAT EXISTING SIGN, A NEW SIGN TO TOTAL UP TO EIGHT SQUARE FEET. COMMISSIONER GROUP. UM, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS A QUESTION TO THE APPLICANT. UM, IF YOU SEE ON THE RIVERSIDE, THEY HAVE THE BLADE AND THEY HAVE A SIGN ON THE MIDDLE WINDOW OF THE GARAGE DOOR, I DON'T KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS, IS THAT A SIGN THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO REPLACE AND KEEP THAT SIGN EVEN THOUGH IT KEEPS US MORE THAN EIGHT? IT'S BASICALLY REPLACING WHAT'S EXISTING. THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD APPROVE. UH, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE HANGING SIGN THAT'S WITHIN THE WINDOW THERE ON SS TWO, WHAT IT SAYS, REBA, WHICH IS THE PREVIOUS TENANT. SO BASICALLY REPLACING PREVIOUS TENANT SIGNAGE. UH, I MEAN, IF IT'S EXISTING, THE APPLICANT COULD POTENTIALLY REFACE THAT EVEN THOUGH IT EXCEEDS THE EIGHT SQUARE FEET, UH, EXISTING. SO YES, THE PRIMARY THING, SO THIS EXISTING SIGN THAT'S HERE NOW, UM, THE APPLICANT COULD SIMPLY REFACE THAT OR REPLACE THIS SIGN AND RECEIVE ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. UH, STAFF'S PRIMARY CONCERN IS THAT IN ADDITION TO THIS EXISTING SIGN OR EXISTING SIGNAGE ON SITE, THE INTRODUCTION OF ANY NEW SIGNAGE WOULD BE, UH, IN EXCESS OF WHAT THE U D C RECOMMENDS. SO I WOULD BE WILLING TO ACCEPT A SIGN ON THIS SS TWO SIDE OF THE BUILDING IF IT'S EQUAL TO THE SIZE OF WHAT'S EXISTING, I WOULD ENTERTAIN THAT IDEA IF THE APPLICANT AGREES TO THAT. YOU MEAN THE, UH, THE YELLOW OVAL THERE IN THE MIDDLE? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO RIGHT THERE? YEAH, WE WOULD NEED TO MEASURE THAT AND, AND JUST SEE HOW BIG IT IS THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S, IS THAT HANGING ON THE INTERIOR SIDE OR IS THAT VINYL ON THE GLASS? I, I CAN'T TELL. BUT EITHER WAY YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE COULD KEEP A SIGN THAT SAME SIZE? WELL, I'M PROPOSING IT AS A, AS AN IDEA. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR IF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS WOULD AGREE TO THAT, BUT THAT WOULD BE OPEN FOR YOU TO HAVE SOME KIND OF SIGNAGE ON THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING. RIGHT? I WOULD'VE TO TALK TO MY CLIENT. I, I GUESS I, I MISREAD THE INITIAL RECOMMENDATION. I THOUGHT THAT WE COULD HAVE A SIGN ON THIS FACADE AS WELL AS THE BLADE SIGN AS LONG AS IT WAS SHRUNK DOWN TO EIGHT SQUARE FEET. SO I WOULD NEED TO TALK TO MY CLIENT, JUST SEE IF THEY WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO THAT. I GUESS THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO KEEP YOUR, UM, S TWO SIGN AT EIGHT SQUARE FEET AND ELIMINATE THE BLADE SIGN AT SS FOUR. AND THEN YOU'RE WITHIN THE U D C GUIDELINES OF EIGHT SQUARE FEET ON THE RIVER FACADE. THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. WHAT IF WE KEPT, UH, S TWO BUT MADE IT, YOU KNOW, EIGHT SQUARE FEET TOTAL, THEN JUST REFACED THE BLADE SIGN? I THINK TECHNICALLY YOU WOULD THEN HAVE MORE THAN EIGHT SQUARE FEET ON THE RIVER FACADE, THE RIVERSIDE [00:30:01] OF THE BUILDING. WITH BOTH OF THOSE SIGNS. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF A CLARIFYING QUESTION. IT IS, WOULD IT, IS IT, IS IT CORRECT TO TO SAY, UH, EIGHT SQUARE FEET ON THE RIVER LEVEL, MAXIMUM EIGHT SQUARE FEET ON THE STREET LEVEL MAXIMUM? THE U THE U D C ACTUALLY SAYS SIGNAGE THAT FACES OR IS VISIBLE OR DIRECTED TOWARD THE RIVER WALK. SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE ACTUAL RIVER LEVEL SIGNAGE AND THEN SECOND STORY OR STREET LEVEL SIGNAGE THAT FACES THE RIVER WALK. SO, OKAY. SO, SO THEN ON THE, ON THE RIVER FACING SIDE, THERE'S A MAXIMUM OF EIGHT SQUARE FEET NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE? THAT IS, THAT IS CORRECT. UH, NOW, AS PREVIOUSLY NOTED, UM, THE COMMISSION COULD APPROVE ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE, BUT THAT'S THE UD C'S RECOMMENDATION FOR ALL RIVER FACING SIGNAGE. OKAY. BUT, BUT EDWARD NOW, BUT, BUT IF WE, IF WE AT LEAST FIND WHAT IS THE BARE MINIMUM WITH THE U D C? THAT, THAT OR THE BARE THE, OR THE MAXIMUM WITH THE UD C, THAT'S EIGHT SQUARE FEET FACING THE RIVER AND EIGHT PLUS EIGHT SQUARE FEET FACING THE STREET? NO, SIR. UM, THE, SO THE TOTAL SIGNAGE FOR THE PROPERTY SHOULD NOT EXCEED 50 SQUARE FEET UNLESS APPROVED BY THE H D R C. ONLY EIGHT SQUARE FEET OF THAT 50 TOTAL SQUARE FEET CAN BE FACING THE RIVER. OKAY. OKAY. SO, SO THERE, UH, THAT'S REASON WHY STAFF IS RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE SIZES OF THIS SIGN THAT FACES CROCKETT STREET, AND THEN THIS SIGN THAT FACES CROCKETT STREET AT THE, AT THE CORNER ENTRANCE, UH, AS THEY TOTAL, UH, IN ADDITION TO THE EIGHT SQUARE FEET OR APPROXIMATELY WHAT THE U D C RECOMMENDS FOR TOTAL SIGNAGE. OKAY. IS A, CAN THE APPLICANT, UM, SPEAK TO WHETHER YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? I, I CAN, I, I MEAN, I, WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT U D C SAYS IT'S EIGHT SQUARE FEET TOTAL NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE ON THE RIVER UPSTAIRS OR DOWNSTAIRS. RIGHT. AND, UM, I MEAN, WE, WE WOULD REALLY PREFER TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, A, A SIGN A THE BLADE SIGN IN ADDITION TO THE OTHER SIGN ON THE WALL. UM, NOW I FEEL LIKE THE BLADE SIGN SERVES A PURPOSE FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE RIVER LEVEL IF THEY'RE LOOKING TO GO UPSTAIRS. BUT ONCE YOU'RE UPSTAIRS, THERE'S KIND OF A BLANK WALL THERE WITH NO BRANDING ON IT. SO WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A SIGN ON THAT WALL JUST TO SHOW PEOPLE WHAT, WHAT PLACE OF BUSINESS THAT IS. OTHERWISE THEY'D HAVE TO WALK AROUND THE CORNER AND, AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WAS. UM, YES, COMMISSIONER GROUP AND NOBODY ELSE. OH, SO, UM, THE CURN BLADE SIGN, THE CURN SIGNAGE ON THE RIVER ACTUALLY EXCEEDS EIGHT FEET. SO I WOULD BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN HIM REPLACING EXISTING SIGNAGE THAT GIVES, UH, THE APPLICANT A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THE EIGHT SQUARE FEET, BUT STILL KEEPING WITH WHAT'S EXISTING. I FEEL, I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. COMMISSIONER CARNES, COMMISSIONER SAVINO? YES, I WOULD AGREE TO THAT, ESPECIALLY IF IT DOES NOT INCREASE THE GROSS SQUARE FOOTAGE OF SIGNAGE. MR. CHAIRMAN? I, YES, SIR. I'D ATTEMPT TO MAKE A MOTION HERE. YES, SIR. UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE AND THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATION AND APPROVAL OF ITEMS TWO AND FOUR, UH, WITH THE, WITH THE ADDITIONAL STIPULATION THAT THE SIGNAGE SQUARE FOOTAGE DOES NOT INCREASE WHAT IS CURRENTLY PRESENT. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I CAN SECOND THAT. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ON QUESTION? WELL, I'D LOVE TO ASK THE, THE MAKER OF THE MOTION IF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE F THREE AND, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW, HOW APPROPRIATE OR NECESSARY THAT THE FAT TUESDAY SEEMS JUST A LITTLE HIGH. IT, IT SEEMS TOO CLOSE TO THE, TO THE SILL OR THE, OR THE, THE LENTIL OF THAT OPENING. IT SHOULD COME DOWN JUST A TINY BIT. IT'S RIGHT ON TOP OF IT. I'M NOT, I'M TRYING TO DESIGN IT. I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT'S, IT'S, IT'S INTERRUPTING THE, THE, THAT LINE IF IT CAME DOWN FOUR INCHES. I'M SORRY, WHAT SIGN WAS THAT? IS THAT TOO TOO DETAILED TO BE SAYING HERE? YES. S TWO OH, ON THE SS THREE? YES SIR. THE FAT TUESDAY, UH, IS, IS RIGHT ON TOP RIGHT UNDERNEATH THAT, THAT, THAT, UM, SILL LINE. IT SEEMS LIKE THAT IT SHOULD COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT. IT MAY BE SITUATED THAT HIGH, UM, BECAUSE OF THE AWNING. MM-HMM. AND, UH, MR. ADCOCK, COULD YOU CON, UM, ADDRESS THAT COMMENT? YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. UH, YOU KNOW, THIS PICTURE'S TAKEN AT AN ANGLE. IF YOU WERE STANDING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT AWNING, YOU TOOK A PICTURE, YOU WOULDN'T EVEN BE ABLE TO SEE THE ENTIRE SIGN WHERE IT, WHERE IT'S PLACED RIGHT NOW. SO I [00:35:01] THINK BRINGING IT DOWN WOULD LIMIT THE VIS, UH, VISIBILITY OF THAT SIGN. AND, AND MR. CHAIRMAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THREE INCHES. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES? UH, NO, I, I AGREE WITH, UH, UH, WITH MY ESTEEMED COMMISSIONER HERE, BUT, UH, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE MAYBE TO EXTEND IT AND MAKE IT HORIZONTAL, YOU KNOW, SPREAD IT OUT? I DON'T WANNA GET INTO DESIGNING, BUT, YOU KNOW, SPREAD THE SIGN OUT A LITTLE MORE. UH, YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. I MEAN, THAT'S, SURE, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S AN OPTION THAT ALLOWS YOU TO BRING IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT. RIGHT. AND THEN, BUT IT ALSO GIVES YOU MORE VISIBILITY BASED ON THAT AWNING. SO A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT MIGHT BE TO SUBMIT FINAL SIGNAGE SIZES AND DESIGNS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND TO ENSURE THAT STAFF HAS THE RECOMMENDATION, OR EXCUSE ME, THE MOTION. CORRECT. UM, COMMISSIONER FISH, YOU NOTED APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE AND THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS APPROVAL OF ITEMS TWO AND FOUR WITH THE STIPULATION THAT NEW SIGNAGE DOES NOT EXCEED THE CURRENT TOTAL SIGNAGE SQUARE FOOTAGE FACING THE RIVER, CORRECT? CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. THIS IS COMMISSIONER GIBBS. YES, SIR. SO MY QUESTION, UM, ABOUT THE SIGNAGE, THE APPLICANT'S ALREADY MENTIONED THAT THE REASON WHY IT IS WHERE IT IS, IS BECAUSE OF THE AWNING AND BECAUSE OF THE WAY WE'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM AN ANGLE, THAT'S WHY IT LOOKS HIGHER. BUT, UM, SUGGESTIONS ARE MAKING IT WIDER. UM, IS THAT, DOES THAT LINE IN WITH WHAT THE APPLICANT WANTS? BECAUSE IF, IF WE'RE NOT ABLE, WE'RE NOT ABLE TO SEE THE VIEW THAT HE'S SPEAKING OF BY STEPPING FURTHER BACK. SO I'M ASSUMING I WOULD'VE TO TRUST THAT HE'S OBSERVED THAT AND SEEING HOW IT WOULD LOOK. SO IS THIS BEING ABLE TO THE APPLICANT? WELL, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'D PREFER TO KEEP IT HOW IT'S SHOWN. THAT'S THE, THE ARTWORK THAT OUR CLIENT'S SEEN AND THAT THEY HAVE APPROVED, UH, THUS FAR. UM, YOU KNOW, I, LIKE I MENTIONED, I COULD, WE COULD TRY TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THE WORDING AND, UH, SEE IF THEY LIKE THAT OR NOT. YOU KNOW, KEEP IN MIND, EACH ONE OF THESE LETTERS HAS TO BE, IT'S GONNA BE HALO ILLUMINATED, SO THERE'S GONNA BE AN ENTIRE, UH, HOLE DRILL BEHIND THE WALL FOR EACH ONE OF THESE LETTERS. AND THE CLOSER YOU GET TO THE CORNERS, THE MORE STONE THERE IS, THE MORE STEEL THERE IS, AND THE HARDER IT IS TO DRILL THROUGH ALL THAT TO RUN THE WIRING INSIDE TO THE POWER SUPPLY. SO HAVING IT STACKED LIKE THAT WHERE THERE'S A WIDE OPEN SPACE INSIDE, UM, WAS REALLY OUR INITIAL THOUGHT OF, LET'S KEEP IT A LITTLE BIT MORE SIMPLE. I'M NOT SAYING IT COULDN'T BE DONE IF YOU STRETCHED IT OUT, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, COST-WISE AND, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, IT WOULD BE EASIER IF IT WAS STACKED AS IT'S SHOWN. UM, MI MR. CHAIR, J JUST, UH, I I I'M NOT MARRIED TO THE IDEA. THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I BRING IT TO THE COMMISSION BECAUSE MANY OF Y'ALL ARE GRAPHICALLY, UH, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR, UH, WHAT, WHAT YOU EXPECT VISUALLY. UM, I WOULD JUST ASK THE APPLICANT TO CONSIDER YOUR ABILITY TO, TO ADJUST THAT A TINY BIT BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S WHERE IT'S AT BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU, YOU KNOW, THAT'S AS HIGH AS YOU COULD GET IT, WHICH IS, WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST PLACEMENT THAT YOU STILL MAY HAVE TO MOVE THINGS DOWN A TADD BIT. I, I SEE IT WHERE IT IS AND IT WOULDN'T AFFECT IT IF YOU WERE ABLE TO GET TWO INCHES OUT OF IT. UH, A LITTLE LOWER. 'CAUSE RIGHT THERE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST THERE BECAUSE THIS, THIS, IS THIS AS HIGH AS YOU COULD GET IT, I DON'T THINK IT'LL AFFECT ANYTHING. 'CAUSE PEOPLE ARE GONNA EXPERIENCE THIS FROM A CORNER VIEW ANYWAY. IF YOU'RE IN FRONT OF IT, YOU CAN'T SEE IT NO MATTER WHAT. SO, UM, JUST IF YOU LOOK AT IT, BUT, BUT I'M NOT GONNA HOLD COMMISSIONER FISH TO THAT. UM, I, I'LL, I'LL VOTE FOR YOUR, YOUR, UH, MOTION COMMISSIONER. I UNDERSTAND THE, UH, THE COMMENTS AND I THINK, UH, THAT THE APPLICANT HAS HEARD THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WITH, I THINK THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE PROBABLY ACHIEVABLE WITHIN THE TOLERANCE OF THE DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED. SO I'LL LEAVE THE MOTION AS IT STANDS AND JUST HAVE THE COMMENTS OUT THERE ON THE RECORD. YOU DON'T WANNA ADD THE, THE MOTION, SORRY, THE ADDED COMMENT FROM MR. CHAIRMAN, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE DON'T HAVE FINAL DESIGN FOR THE TWO SIGNS AT THE RIVER. SO MAYBE JUST TO SUBMIT THAT TO STAFF, THE, THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE TO DO THAT ANYWAYS FOR HIS C O A. OKAY. WE WOULDN'T RELEASE THE C O A AND JUST. OKAY. THANK YOU. WE HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FISH. AYE. SINO? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. SANTE? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA ITEM 17. AGENDA ITEM 17, H D R C CASE NUMBER, UH, 20 22 2 3 9 7 0 2 HAYES. THE APPLICANT'S REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE PERFORM REHABILITATIVE SCOPES OF WORK TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE, INCLUDING [00:40:01] INSTALLING A NEW SHINGLE ROOF AND PAINTING. THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO NOTED THE POSSIBILITY THE INSTALLATION OF A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF TWO MODIFY EXISTING WINDOW OPENINGS ON THE WEST FACADE BY INSTALLING TWO GROUPED FULL SIZED WINDOW OPENINGS AS WELL AS INFILL AND EXISTING RECESS AREA BEHIND THE PORCH ON THE EAST FACADE. AND THREE, CONSTRUCT A REAR ADDITION TO FEATURE 800 SQUARE FEET MODIFICATIONS, INCLUDING THE DEMOLITION OF THE REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS REQUEST. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, REHABILITATIVE SCOPES OF WORK, INCLUDING PAINTING AND ROOF REPLACEMENT. SHOULD THE APPLICANT ELECT TO INSTALL A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF, THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION SHOULD BE FOLLOWED. ONE THAT THE ROOF FEATURE PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES WIDE. SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES IN HEIGHT, A CRIMP RIDGE SEAM, AND A STANDARD GALVAO FINISH PANELS SHOULD FEATURE, SHOULD BE SMOOTH AND NOT FEATURE CORRUGATION OR STRIATIONS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO, MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING FENESTRATION PATTERN, INCLUDING THE IN INFILLING OF SIDE RE OF THE SIDE RECESS BAY ON THE EAST FACADE IS NOTED IN FINDING F. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE ORIGINAL FENESTRATION PATTERN OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE SHOULD BE PRESERVED. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF FINDS THAT IF IN FILLING OF THE RECESS PORCH ON THE EAST FACADE, REMOVE A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF THE ORIGINAL CRAFTSMAN STRUCTURE. THE EXISTING CLIP GABLE ROOFS ON THE EAST FAC FACADE SHOULD BE PRESERVED. AND THREE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPRO, EXCUSE ME, APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REAR ADDITION WITH THE STIPULATION THAT WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS BE INSTALLED THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS. AN ALUMINUM WINDOW MAY BE APPROPRIATE, SHOULD IT BE CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. I WILL SAY THAT THIS CASE WAS REVIEWED BY THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AT A SITE VISIT ON MAY THE 11TH, UH, LAST WEEK. UH, AT THAT MEETING, COMMISSIONERS DISCUSSED MANY OF THE ITEMS THAT ARE, UH, NOTED IN STAFF'S REPORT AND RECOMMENDATION. WE'LL ALSO NOTE THAT THE APPLICANT WAS ABLE TO COMPLETE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND SUBMIT THOSE TO STAFF BEFORE LAST FRIDAY'S POSTING DEADLINE. UH, THAT ADDRESSED MANY OF THE COMMISSIONER'S CONCERNS. UH, AS THE NOTES ON THE SLIDES NOTE, UH, THE REVISIONS TO THIS OR TO THE REVISIONS TO THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS ARE NOT NOTED OR REFLECTED IN STAFF'S REPORT OR RECOMMENDATIONS. UH, THESE DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN UPDATED SPECIFICALLY TO ADDRESS COMMENTS, UH, THAT WERE RECEIVED AT LAST WEEK'S D R C HEARING, OR EXCUSE ME, MEETING, UH, THE APPLICANT. UH, CUBA IS ON THE LINE, I BELIEVE, ALONG WITH HIS DESIGN TEAM. CUBA, ARE YOU THERE? THERE YOU GO. THERE YOU GO. CAN YOU, CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? YES. YES, YES. UM, THIS IS KUBA. I HAVE TONY ON THE, ON THE LINE AS WELL. UM, TONY'S THE ARCHITECT ON THIS PROJECT. SO I THINK WE'VE, UH, AFTER THE SITE VISIT ON THE 11TH, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO ADDRESS A MAJORITY OF THE CONCERNS. UM, AND I THINK ALL OF THOSE HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO THE STANDARDS THAT, UH, THAT STAFF AND THE COMMITTEE HAD RECOMMENDED. UM, SO YEAH, JUST I, I THINK WE'RE WHERE WE NEED TO BE. OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, COMMISSIONER SINO AND I AND, UH, COMMISSIONER CERVANTES CERVANTES AND, UM, AND MOOKA AND MOOKA WERE ALL PRESENT AT THE SIDE VISIT. SO COULD I GET A D R C REPORT? OKAY. UM, MR. CHAIR, WE, UM, THINK WE LOOKED AT THE WINDOWS PRIMARILY. THAT WAS ONE OF THE LARGER CONCERNS IS THE QUALITY OR THE, UM, INTEGRITY OF THE WINDOWS FOR REPAIR. UH, TO ADDRESS THE REQUEST TO REPLACE, WE FOUND THAT THE WINDOWS WERE ALL IN IMMACULATE AND WONDERFUL CONDITION. AND, UM, I BELIEVE WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT THOSE REMAIN IN PLACE AND ARE, UM, UH, REPAIRED. UM, WE ALSO ADDRESS THAT EAST ELEVATION AND A, A GOOD SOLUTION POSSIBLE SOLUTION WOULD BE AS THE APPLICANT HAS, UH, DRAFTED, SHOWING THE TWO CLIPPED GABLES EAST FACING TO REMAIN IN PLACE, UM, THOSE ORIGINAL WALLS AND WINDOWS TO REMAIN IN PLACE AND TO INFILL AND, UH, THE SPACE BETWEEN WHICH IS IN PLAN WHERE THE BATHROOM IS. UM, AND WE AGREED THAT THAT COULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION. UM, AND THEN THERE'S AN AGREEMENT, I BELIEVE THAT NO PLATE HEIGHTS OF THE ORIGINAL WALLS WOULD BE ALTERED. UH, PREVIOUS, UH, RENDITIONS [00:45:01] OF THE DESIGN HAD RAISED PLATE WALL PLATE HEIGHTS AND THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO MAINTAIN THE EXISTING PLATE HEIGHTS. ANYTHING ELSE ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO ADD, ALLED THAT WE HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THIS CASE. ALRIGHT. HELLO, MY NAME IS VALERIE CORTES AND I RESIDE AT 5 0 8 LAMAR STREET WITH DIG WITTY HILL. I'M CALLING ON BEHALF OF THE CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIGNA WOODY HILL WITH REGARD TO CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 2 39, LOCATED AT 7 0 2 HAY STREET. WE SUPPORT STAFF, ESPECIALLY ON ITEM NUMBER TWO, WHERE THE EXTERIOR FENESTRATION SHOULD NOT BE ALTERED ON A HISTORICAL HOME, ORIGINAL DOORS AND WINDOWS SHOULD REMAIN AS AR ITEM NUMBER THREE. THE ADDITION NEEDS TO BE SUBORDINATE TO THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC STRUCTURE AND SHOULD FEATURE A SIMILAR ROOF FORM, BUT FEATURE A TRANSITION TO DIFFERENTIATE THE NEW SECTION FROM THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. THANK YOU. THAT'S IT. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. UM, I DO HAVE MR. CHAIR, I DO HAVE COMMENTS ONCE EVERYBODY ELSE HAS A CHANCE. OKAY. UH, SO WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I I WILL NOTE THAT THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE ON THE SCREEN HERE THAT REFLECT THE COMMENTS RECEIVED BY THE APPLICANT AT D R C ARE NOT REFLECTED IN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UH, SO, UH, IF, IF YOU, IT WOULD NEED TO BE, YOU WOULD NEED TO MAKE A MOTION TO SAY OR TO ADDRESS THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE PRESENTED TO ADDRESS THE DRCS PREVIOUS CONCERNS. WELL, WELL, LET ME DO THIS, EDWARD, LET ME ASK IF I CAN, UM, UH, PULL THE MOTION AND ASK COMMISSIONER SABINO SINCE YOU, YOU, YOU MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE, WHAT WOULD BE THE STIPULATIONS AND I'LL DEFER IF YOU CARE TO MAKE THE MOTION. DOES THAT WORK? YES. OKAY. SO MOTION HAS BEEN PULLED. DO WE HAVE A SECOND MOTION? UM, WELL, MR. CHAIR, DO I NEED TO MAKE A MOTION OR CAN I USE THIS PERIOD FOR COMMENTS? YOU MAY MAKE COMMENTS. I MAKE COMMENTS. OKAY. UM, I DO THINK THAT THERE WAS GREAT, GREAT PROGRESS MADE ON THIS. A LOT OF WORK. THE INFILL, THE RESULTING INFILL BETWEEN THE TWO EAST FACING GABLES CONCERNS ME. AND THIS IS PART OF THAT PACKAGE THAT WAS RECENTLY SUBMITTED THAT STAFF HAS NOT COMMENTED ON THE, THAT SPACE IN THE BATHROOM ON THE GROUND FLOOR HAS ACTUALLY GONE BEYOND THE EXTERIOR WALL, ORIGINAL EXTERIOR WALL. AND I BELIEVE IN AN ATTEMPT TO RE, TO ADD A ROOF TO THE REAR ADDITION, THE ORIGINAL ROOF, AND BECAUSE OF THE BATHROOM ADDITION CHANGE WHERE IT PROJECTS OUTWARD, UM, THE ROOF FRAMING OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE HAS TO BE MODIFIED. AND WHAT IT DOES IS IT, DARN, I CAN'T TALK WITH TWO HANDS. UM, IT MOVES THE EAST ROOF, UH, SPRING POINT OUT A COUPLE OF FEET OR SO, AND IT CREATES A TALLER RIDGE HEIGHT ON THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. SO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE HAS A, HAS A ORIGINAL ROOF MODIFICATION OF AT LEAST A COUPLE OF FEET TALLER. AND IT THEN IT ALSO THROWS IT A COUPLE OF FEET TO THE WEST SO IT NO LONGER ALIGNS WITH THE GABLE IN THE FRONT ENTRY. AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK. THE ELEVATION DOESN'T REALLY TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. SO I HAVE A CONCERN THERE THAT THERE MAY BE, WELL FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE GETTING A MODIFICATION OF THE ORIGINAL ROOF, WHICH I REALLY DO NOT SUPPORT. BUT THEN HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE RESOLVED EVEN IF IT DID WORK, YOU KNOW? UM, AND SO AS A SOLUTION, I WOULD, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE FOOTPRINT OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE BE MAINTAINED AND THAT THE REAR ADDITION EITHER BE MAINTAINED, THE FOOTPRINT BE MAINTAINED OR MADE A COUPLE OF FEET SMALLER ON THE EAST SO THAT THIS HOUSE CAN BE REROOFED IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T DAMAGE THE ORIGINAL HOUSE ROOF. YES, I CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE MENTIONING HERE, COMMISSIONER SAVINO ANOTHER, AND I KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT TO, AND NOT ADVISABLE TO DESIGN DURING THE COMMISSION MEETING, BUT IF THE INFILL OF THE BATHROOM DID NOT PROJECT OUT SO FAR SO THAT IT COULD FALL UNDER THE EXISTING EVE, THEN THE EXISTING RIDGE WOULD NOT NEED TO BE RAISED. MM-HMM. . SO RATHER THAN, UM, [00:50:01] EDWARD, IF YOU GO TO DRAWING 23, THE PROJECTION OF THE RESTROOM ADDITION BATHROOM ADDITION IS TWO FEET TO THE EAST OF THE EXISTING WALL LINE. IF THAT WAS LESS THAN THAT, SO THAT THE NEW WALL OF THE BATHROOM FELL UNDERNEATH THE EXISTING EAVE, SO THE ROOF LINE AND RIDGE WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU WOULD BE AMENABLE TO KUBA? UM, I GUESS THAT'S A, I I DON'T, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THIS WAS A CONCERN, UM, WHEN WE HAD MET, SO I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE. I, I THOUGHT THE BIGGEST THING WAS TO PRESERVE THE TWO ROOF LINES, UM, THAT WE HAD DISCUSSED ON THAT SIDE. EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S JUST A NEIGHBOR THERE, IT'S NOT FACING THE STREET AT ALL. UM, SO I, I'M, I'M NOT SURE, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THIS WAS THE CONCERN. UM, TONY, I, I DON'T KNOW. WHAT DO YOU THINK? IS IT, IS IT THAT PROBLEMATIC FOR US OR? UM, WELL, THE ORIGINAL RIDGE LINE IS, UH, CENTERED BETWEEN THE OUTSIDE THE, THE, THE WEST WALL AND THE ORIGINAL, UH, BATHROOM WALL, EAST WALL. BUT THE EAST WALL, RIGHT. THE, THE, WHERE THE ORIGINAL, UH, INSET WAS, UH, THAT'S WHERE THE, THAT'S WHERE THE, WHERE THE ORIGINAL RIDGE LINE IS AT, UM, THE NEW RIDGE LINE, YES. IT, IT DOES GO UP OF A FEW FEET BECAUSE OF THE, OF THE WIDTH OF THE, OF THE ADDITION. UM, AND IT IS ACTUALLY NOW IN LINE WITH, UH, BEDROOM TWO. BEDROOM TWO, YES. BEDROOM ONE OF BED TWO. UH, SO WE COULD LOOK AT, AT THE RIDGE LINE AND JUST, IT'LL, IT COULD COME LOWER RIGHT OVER THOSE TOILETS AND THE SHOWER TO KEEP THE RIDGE LINE THE SAME. UH, I MEAN, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS GONNA BE AN ISSUE. I MEAN WE, WELL, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THE LATE HIDE AND THE, UH, AND THE WINDOWS, UH, RIGHT. AND THEN THE TWO, AND THEN, AND THEN MAINTAINING THAT, THOSE TWO ORIGINAL, UM, YOU KNOW, PIECES OF THE ROOF ON THE, ON THE EAST SIDE. I MEAN, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD, I WOULD REALLY ASK FOR APPROVAL THE WAY THAT IT IS, JUST BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE DID EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD AND EVERYTHING THAT WAS ASKED FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS OUR THIRD RENDITION AT THIS POINT, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S THE, THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE IS GONNA LOOK THE SAME. THERE'S AN INDENTATION FOR THE ADDITION, SO IT REALLY STICKS OUT. UM, I, YOU KNOW, I, I GUESS I, I I WOULD ASK FOR APPROVAL THE WAY THAT IT IS, RATHER THAN GOING TO ANOTHER RENDITION. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, COMMISSIONER GROUP. WELL, I MEAN, I THINK I AGREE. I THINK WHAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A ROOF PLAN AND I THINK THEY CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN. SO MAYBE ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS COULD BE THAT, UM, JUST TO SUBMIT FINAL PLANS TO STAFF, MAKING SURE THAT ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS COULD BE THAT TO NOT ADD ANY, ANY HEIGHT TO THE EXISTING ROOF LINE, IF YOU'D BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. I CAN MAKE A MOTION. I DON'T THINK WE ARE ADDING HEIGHT TO THE EXISTING ROOF LINE. ARE WE ADDING HEIGHT TONY? OR WE'RE, WE'RE ADDING WITH OUR CURRENT PLAN, WE'RE ADDING VERY, VERY MINIMAL HEIGHT TO THE, THE RIDGE LINE, THE, THAT GOES, YOU KNOW, FROM FRONT TO BACK. UH, AND IF THAT'S THE STIPULATION, WE CAN LIVE WITH IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO COMMISSIONER GRU, DO YOU WANT ME TO DO THE MOTION OR YOU, IF YOU'RE READY, BE BEFORE YOU DO MR. CHAIR LOOKING AT THE, AT THE COVER PAGE? I, I, 'CAUSE I'M LOST. I'LL JUST, JUST BE HONEST WITH YOU. LOOKING AT THE COVER PAGE, IT SAYS KUBA AND KIMBERLY, UH, I WOULD PAGE NUMBER, WOULD THAT BE 0, 0 0? BUT IT'S, IT'S PAGE 22 IN THE, IN THE PRESENTATION. YES, IT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW WHICH LINE IS THE LINE THAT GREW? SO I, I'M IMAGINING IT'S, IT'S, UH, NORTH TO SOUTH, ONE OF THE NORTH TO SOUTH LINES. IS IT? YES. IS IT THE LINE THAT IS CLOSEST TO THE BOTTOM THAT, THAT ROSE, THE EXISTING RIDGE LINE IS IN LINE WITH THAT CLIPPED GABLE ON THE FRONT. SO IT IS, IT HAS INCREASED IN [00:55:01] HEIGHT AND MOVED SLIGHTLY TO THE EAST. OKAY. SO COMMISSIONER GRU, UM, I THINK IT'S APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE WITH STAFF STIPULATION DENIAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO. TO CLARIFY, STA UH, APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO, UH, REPAIR EXISTING WINDOWS, CORRECT? THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT. OKAY. CORRECT. NO WINDOW REPLACEMENT. THAT'S, THAT'S CORRECT. SO NO CHANGE IN THE FENESTRATION. AND, UM, ITEM NUMBER THREE, APPROVE AS SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING WITH AN ADDED STIPULATION, WELL ADDED STIPULATION THAT STAFF STIPULATION ABOUT THE WINDOWS AND ITEM. AND SECOND STIPULATION WILL BE TO NOT ADD ANY HEIGHT TO CURRENT ROOF LINE. SO FOR, FOR CLARIFICATION, THE COMMISSION, YOUR MOTION DOES NOT INCLUDE THIS INFILL RIGHT HERE OF THIS REAR PORCH. I WOULD SAY IF THEY CAN MAKE IT WORK WITHOUT ADDING HEIGHT TO THE ROOF LINE, THEY CAN KEEP THAT INFILL. OKAY, WELL THEY PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO, BUT CAN YOU, COULD YOU, WELL, AND ACTUALLY I WOULD ADD A FINAL STIPULATION TO, TO SUBMIT FINAL PLANS TO YOU BEFORE CERTAINLY, BUT COULD YOU JUST, I I GUESS JUST CLARIFY THAT THE INFILL OF THAT AREA BEHIND THE PORCH IS APPROVED OR THAT YOU'RE YEAH, SO IT WOULD AS PRESENTED TODAY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IF THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO MAKE THAT ADDED THE TWO FEET WITHOUT ADDING TO THE ROOF LINE, THEN WE WILL HAVE TO JUST KEEP IT AS IT IS RIGHT NOW. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT. MOTION IS SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? UM, MR. CHAIR? I, I JUST WANT TO KINDA GO ON THE RECORD AS, UM, I, I, I THINK THAT IT, THAT THE LINE DOES PLACE ITSELF BEHIND THE ORIGINAL LINE. THAT'S WHY LOOKING AT IT FROM THE BIRD'S VIEW TO ME IS BETTER THAN AN ELEVATION. BECAUSE IF THE ELEVATION WAS DRAWN A LITTLE BIT MORE PROPERLY, IT, IT, IT WOULD HAVE DARKER LINES AND IT WOULD NOT BE THE SAME WIDTH SO THAT THE VISUAL WOULD BE MORE TRUE TO WHAT YOU'D SEE FROM THE STREET. UM, I THINK IT'S, IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF, UM, KINDA A VERY, VERY DELICATE VISUAL, UM, THAT, THAT IS A SOLUTION THAT SUBORDINATES THE, THE, THE SOLUTION TO THE REAR OF, OF THE HISTORIC ASPECT OF THE, OF THE FACADE. UM, I, I DON'T WANNA HOLD THESE GUYS BACK, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT SEEMS THAT IT'S, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, UM, IT'S THE, THE DESIGNERS SUBMITTING THEMSELVES TO WHAT A ROOF DOES AND I THINK THEY'VE DONE THAT. UM, SO I, I WANNA SUPPORT THE, THE APPLICANT AND WHAT THE APPLICANT'S ASKING FOR, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANNA HOLD THE PROJECT UP. THANK YOU, SIR. AND, AND JUST FOR, UH, STAFF, THE COMMISSION AND THE APPLICANT, UH, COMMISSIONER GROUP, IF I COULD JUST REPEAT THE MOTION YOU'VE MADE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY. SO, APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED REAR ADDITION AND MODIFICATIONS, INCLUDING THE INFILL AS SUBMITTED TODAY ALL WINDOWS ARE TO BE MAINTAINED AND REPAIRED. AND THEN APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE, WHICH IS THE REAR ADDITION WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, INCLUDING THE STIPULATIONS FOR STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS. AND THEN WE ADD THE STIPULATION THAT NO ADD TO NOT ADD ANY HEIGHT TO THE ROOF LINE, MAINTAIN THE CURRENT HEIGHT OF THE ROOF LINE FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK. AND, AND ONE, ONE MORE THING. I'M, I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT, EDWARD. UM, I THINK THAT ON THE, IF EVERYBODY REMEMBERS ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE HOME, THERE ARE SOME WINDOWS THAT ARE ALUMINUM. UM, I THINK IT'S JUST TWO. YES, THOSE ARE NOT ORIGINAL. OKAY. SO THOSE ARE NOT INCLUDED. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SUBPOENA? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP? AYE. CERVANTES? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER AYE. RUSSIAN CARIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND THANK YOU FOR, UH, WORKING WITH THE COMMISSION AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON THIS. NO, THANK YOU. I I APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH. THANK YOU ALL. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 18, H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 22 2 31, 11 11 AND 1115 NORTH PALMETTO. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, AMEND A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DESIGN REGARDING WINDOW MATERIALS FOR THE NEW CONSTRUCTION AT 1111 AND 11 NORTH 15 NORTH PALMETTO TO AMEND THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DESIGN BY MODIFYING THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FENESTRATION [01:00:01] PATTERN FOR BOTH STRUCTURES ON THE NORTH, SOUTH AND EAST FACADES, AS WELL AS MODIFY THE REAR DESIGN OF BOTH STRUCTURES. AND THREE, INSTALL COMPOSITE SIDING FEATURING A SEVEN INCH EXPOSURE IN FAUX WOOD GRAIN FINISH. IN LIEU OF THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED COMPOSITE SIDING, STIPULATED A FEATURE AND EXPOSURE OF FOUR INCHES IN A SMOOTH FINISH. UH, HAD THE APPLICANT, UH, MR. JAMES BENFIELD, WHO IS HERE IN PERSON, UH, AND COMMISSIONERS, THIS IS A CASE THAT IS IN VIOLATION CURRENTLY. OKAY. DID YOU WANNA READ STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS? YES. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UH, SO FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE INSTALLATION OF ALUMINUM WINDOWS. HOWEVER, THE PROPOSED WINDOW MUST MEET STAFF STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN THE APPLICABLE CITATIONS AND BELOW STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO, MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING FENESTRATION AND DESIGN BASED ON FINDING D STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN SHOULD BE ADHERED TO AS SHOWN IN THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AS IT RELATES TO ALL FENESTRATION. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE, THE INSTALLATION OF COMPOSITE SIDING FEATURING A SEVEN INCH EXPOSURE IN FO WOOD GRAIN FINISH. BASED ON FINDING, E STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SPECIFICATIONS SHOULD BE FOLLOWED. THAT SIDING SHOULD FEATURE FOUR INCH EXPOSURE IN A SMOOTH FINISH. UH, AND NOW WE HAVE THE APPLICANT, MR. BENFIELD JAMES BENFIELD PUSH. CAN YOU HEAR ME? THERE YOU GO. I'M JAMES BENFIELD. I'M THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTIES AND THE CONTRACTOR AS WELL. I, SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT NUMBER TWO WAS, BUT AS FAR AS THE WINDOWS, I GUESS WE'LL START WITH THAT 'CAUSE THAT WAS ON NUMBER ONE. UM, WE ORDERED, I'VE DONE MULTIPLE PROPERTIES IN HISTORICAL DISTRICTS, INCLUDING IN KING WILLIAM AND DIG WITTY. I DID ONE RIGHT DOWN THE STREET ON 10 21 NORTH PALMETTO. AND WE'VE ALWAYS DONE WHAT, WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED OR WHAT WAS REQUIRED BY STAFF AND, UH, OR YOU GUYS H D R C. HOWEVER, RIGHT NOW WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A SHORTAGE OF WINDOWS, I DON'T KNOW, RAW MATERIALS, MANUFACTURING, WHATEVER IT IS. BUT THE WINDOWS THAT I ORDERED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROJECT WERE FIRST SUPPOSED TO BE COMING IN FROM SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS. THEN IT WAS SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS. NOW IT'S A YEAR. I'M ALMOST DONE WITH THE HOUSES. I GOT DRYWALL UP, I GOT INSULATION, NOT SO AT THIS POINT IT WAS MORE ABOUT AVAILABILITY. I ACTUALLY, BEFORE I EVEN ORDERED THE WINDOWS, I REACHED OUT TO STAFF MYSELF. I CALLED MR. HALL AND TOLD HIM, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO, CAN WE GET A RECOMMENDATION? AND, UM, WE JUST WENT BACK AND FORTH FOR A LITTLE BIT. SO WE MODIFIED OUR TRIM IN ORDER TO FIT THE STANDARD. SO ACCORDING TO WHAT IT SAYS HERE, IT SAYS, WHILE NO MATERIALS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED BY HISTORICAL DESIGN GUIDELINES, WE HIGHLY, A HIGH QUALITY WOOD, WHICH I TRIED, OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW PRODUCT OFTEN MEETS THE GUIDELINES. SO WE WENT WITH WHAT WAS, I COULD GET MY HANDS ON RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE PROGRESSION OF THE PROPERTY. BUT WE MODIFIED THE TRIM AS YOU CAN SEE TO WHERE THE SASHES ARE WITHIN THE SPECIFICATIONS THAT YOU GUYS ARE ASKING FOR. WE ALSO PAINTED THE WINDOW AS WELL, PER RECOMMENDATION. SO, AND THEN IF WE WERE TO GO TO NUMBER TWO, I, I DON'T KNOW, THAT WAS THE, THE, BASICALLY THE, THE WINDOW OPENINGS, THINGS THAT SCREEN, THE WHAT? WINDOW OPENINGS AND THE CHANGES LIKE THE REAR DECK, UH, THE OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU'VE SUBMITTED. OKAY. UM, YEAH, SO THE OTHER ITEMS THAT I HAD ON HERE WERE, I, I CAN HELP YOU WALK THROUGH. SO, UH, FOR INSTANCE, UH, THE APPLICANT HAD PREVIOUSLY NOTED THE INSTALLATION OF HORIZONTAL SIDING ON EACH FACADE. OKAY. SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE OTHER ONE AS WELL. YEAH, I SENT PICTURES AND I'M GOING THROUGH 'EM. SO I'M JUST, I DON'T, HE USED THE WORD FENESTRATION. I, I DIDN'T KNOW, THAT'S THE TERM I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH. BUT AS, AS I'M GOING THROUGH THIS, I ACTUALLY DID. THAT'S THE HOME THAT I DID ON 10 21 PALMETTO AND HAS THE SAME SIDING. WE DID HAVE AN ISSUE ON THAT ONE BACK THEN, UH, WHICH WAS, IT WASN'T FLIPPED THE SIDING. SO ON THIS, ON, ON THIS ONE, WE DID, WE DID FLIP IT ON THE SMOOTH SIDE INSTEAD OF THE KIND OF FAUX WOOD SIDE ON THE NEW ONES THAT WE'RE DOING. UM, BUT I ALSO, AS I WENT THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS I WAS, WHEN I CALLED EDWARD AND WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS, I FOUND THAT THERE WAS QUITE A FEW INDIGNITY HILL THAT HAD SIX INCH, SEVEN INCH SIDING THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED. SO I TOOK PICTURES OF IT AND I SENT THOSE TO HIM AS WELL. UM, AND THEN WE DID HAVE A PLAN TO DO BAT AND BOARD ON OURS, AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE PICTURE OF THE ACTUAL HOUSE THAT WE'RE DOING. AND THESE ARE HOUSES THAT TOOK PICTURES OF WHERE THEY DID THE BAT AND BOARD SIDING. UM, SO WE DID THAT. I MEAN, WE'RE [01:05:01] ASKING, YOU KNOW, $450,000 FOR THESE HOUSES. SO IT'S KIND OF HARD TO DO THAT WHEN YOU GOT JUST NOTHING BUT PLAIN SIDING GOING HORIZONTAL IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF CEDAR ACCENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. SO THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL PLAN AND WHAT WE HAD AS MARKETING AND ADVERTISING, BUT OUR PLANS GUY DIDN'T PUT IT IN THE PLAN. SO THEREFORE IT MUST HAVE FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS WHEN WE WERE GETTING APPROVAL. BUT WE DID DO THE BATTEN BOARD 'CAUSE WE FEEL LIKE IT GIVES A DESIGN ASPECT TO THE ELEVATION OF THE HOME, WHICH SUBSTANTIATES THE PRICE THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR. YEAH, YOU DON'T HAVE THE PICTURE WITH, WITH THE PAINT THAT'S DONE, DO WE? OKAY. OH, I SENT HIM MEASUREMENTS. HE ASKED FOR THAT. THAT WAS THAT PICTURE. I DID SEND HIM MEASUREMENTS TO SHOW THAT THE SASH THAT'S SHOWING IS OF THE TWO AND A QUARTER INCH. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THAT, THAT WELL. SO WE DO HAVE, UM, AT SOME POINT IT JUST GOT TO THE POINT WHERE WE COULDN'T WAIT FOR THE WINDOWS ANY LONGER. WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING. IT'S HARD IF IT'S RAINING AND YOU GOT OPEN WINDOWS AND YOU GOT DRYWALL AND INSULATION ALREADY IN. WE ACTUALLY HAD TO REPLACE SOME OF THE DRYWALL BECAUSE OF IT. SO, AND COMMISSIONERS, AS YOU CAN NOTE, UM, PREVIOUSLY THAT THE DOCUMENTS THAT WERE APPROVED, UH, YOU SEE THAT ALL WINDOWS WERE IN A ONE OVER ONE PROFILE. IT WAS ALSO ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS, UH, OF APPROVAL. UM, AND IT, IF YOU CAN NOTE THE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, UH, EITHER FIX YOUR LARGE, UH, PICTURE PROFILE AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE STRUCTURE ON THE LEFT, UM, OR, UM, AS THEY'VE BEEN INSTALLED, UM, OR NOTED IN THIS WINDOW. UH, AND THEN ALSO, UH, YEAH, WE EVEN ADDED, SO WE CUT THE WINDOWS DON'T EITHER DON'T FEATURE, UH, A DIVISION OR, UH, EQUAL AN EQUAL SASH OR, UH, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, UH, THE SASH, THE SASH SIZES ARE UNEQUAL. UH, AS FAR AS THE ACTUAL INSTALLATION DEPTH AND TRIM OUT, UH, WINDOW GENERALLY MEETS THE STANDARDS THAT STAFF IS LOOKING FOR. SO THE ACTUAL INSTALLATION OF THE WINDOW WAS WELL DONE. UM, IT'S JUST THE, UH, THE, THE ACTUAL PROPORTION OF THE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED THEMSELVES. YEAH. SO WE EVEN, WE HAD TO CUSTOMIZE EVERY WINDOW. SO THE LABOR ON THIS WAS PRETTY INTENSIVE, BUT WE DID ACTUALLY CREATE THE, THE GRADE, THE, THE LOW GRADE AWAY FROM THE WINDOW. TWO ON THE BOTTOM SILL, AS YOU CAN SEE. UM, AND MAYBE THAT'S THE ANGLE THAT IT'S TAKEN, BUT BOTH SIDES ARE EQUAL. THEY'RE BOTH LESS EITHER TWO AND A QUARTER INCH OR LESS. UM, SAY THE ONLY THING THAT'S OFF FROM THE SPECIFICATIONS RECOMMENDED IS THE MEETING RAIL. UM, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S JUST THE WAY THAT THE WINDOW, THE WINDOW THAT WE COULD GET THE QUICKEST SO THAT WE COULD DRY IN THE HOUSE WAS THAT SIZE COMMISSIONER GROUP. YES. UM, SO I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE ON THESE WINDOWS. IF YOU GO TO PAGE 17, EDWARD, THE DRAWINGS DOES SHOW, AND, AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT UNEQUAL SIZES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WINDOW PANE, THE UPPER WINDOW PANE BEING BIGGER IN SIZE THAN THE OKAY. LOWER WINDOW PANE. AND I REMEMBER, I THINK WE'VE GONE THROUGH MANY DESIGNS OF THIS PROPERTY. WANNA MAKE SURE WE DID STIPULATE THAT THEY HAD TO BE EQUAL SIZES, RIGHT? TOP AND BOTTOM. THAT IS CORRECT. THAT WAS A STIPULATION OF THE APPROVAL AND THE APPLICANT ACTUALLY, UH, SUBMITTED, UM, BELIEVE IT WAS A WOOD OR AN ALUMINUM CLOUD PRODUCT. THE STAFF, THE STAFF APPROVED, UH, WHEN WE ISSUED THE C O A, UM, IT'S JUST THE APPLICANT WASN'T ABLE TO OBTAIN THAT PARTICULAR PRODUCT. UM, YEAH. INSTALLED WHAT'S INSTALLED NOW, BUT, AND THEN, SO ON THE WINDOWS, I UNDERSTAND THAT PROBLEM THAN YOU'RE INCURED, BUT YOU STILL, I MEAN, THE COST IS NOW HIGHER BECAUSE , YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRYING TO LOWER COSTS IN SOME WAY BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND A WINDOW SO YOU CAN GET DONE WITH YOUR PROJECT. BUT NOW WE'RE RUNNING INTO ANOTHER PROBLEM, WHICH IS ALSO THE, THE TYPE OF WINDOW AND THE SIZES. AND I'M GONNA WAIT, AND I'M JUST GONNA FINISH BEFORE YOU SPEAK, AND THEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SIDING AND, AND THE SEVEN INCHES, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SIX OR SEVEN INCHES AS LONG AS IT'S BOARD AND BATTEN YOU WANTED BOARD AND BATTEN ON THE FRONT. AND, AND THIS IS NOT THE, IT MAY HAVE BEEN APPROVED ON ANOTHER PROPERTY, OR LIKE YOU SAY, WE, YOU ENDED UP FLIPPING AT ANOTHER PROPERTY. UH, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD HAVE REMEMBERED THAT KIND OF, BECAUSE IT IS ALWAYS THE SMOOTH SIDE, SO IT IS A MATTER OF FLIPPING IT. RIGHT. BUT YOU HAD, YOU HAD NOT DECIDED ON SIDING FOR THIS PROPERTY. YOU HAD DECIDED ON BOARD A BATON, RIGHT? NO, NO, NO. WE, WE HAD SIDING THAT WAS APPROVED 'CAUSE THE PLAN SHOWED SIDING. SO, BUT THE PICTURE THAT [01:10:01] WE HAD AS FAR AS WHAT WE WERE PLANNING ON DOING WAS THE ELEVATION. WE WERE ADDING BAT AND BOARD JUST TO THAT POP OUT RIGHT THERE ON THE RIGHT. OTHERWISE IT IS SIDING EVERYWHERE ELSE. AND ALL YOUR SIDING IS NOW WITH THE FO GRAIN AND YOU HAD THE SMOOTH SIDE OUT. IT'S, IT'S SMOOTH SIDE OUT ON THE, BUT IT IS NOT THE FOUR INCHES ON THE F HUH? THAT'S NOT FOUR INCHES. CORRECT. AND IT IS SEVEN INCHES. IT'S SEVEN INCHES, I BELIEVE, IF THAT'S WHAT HE'S SAYING. I THOUGHT IT WAS SIX. BUT IF IT'S SEVEN, THEN THIS IS, THIS IS, UH, THE, SO THAT'S WHAT I SAW IN THE PICTURE. THAT'S NOT SMOOTH SIDE OUT. YES, THAT IS ON THE, ON THE SIDE, YES, BUT NOT ON THE FRONT. SO, BUT WE HAD THAT SAME PROBLEM AT THE OTHER PROPERTY. AND THAT'S THE SAME PROBLEM. I'M NOT, I MEAN, IS THERE AN OPTION THAT YOU CAN FLIP THIS SIDING ON THE SIDING AND MAKE IT SMOOTH ALL AROUND THE PROPERTY? NOT REALLY. BUT THAT'S THE THING IS YOU'VE DONE MANY PROPERTIES MM-HMM. , BUT THIS KEEPS COMING UP THAT THERE'S WORK DONE, BUT THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING OR SOMETHING. THERE'S NOT, THERE'S TWO THINGS. UM, FIRST THING IS, IS TO TACKLE THE SIDING. WE DID CONVEY IT TO THE CONTRACTOR THAT DOES OUR SIDING, THE FRAMERS THAT DOES THE CORNICE. UNFORTUNATELY, WE DIDN'T CATCH HIM UNTIL HE WAS ABOUT THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY DONE. SO WE SAID, AND IF AT WORST CASE, THEN YOU'RE GONNA DO THE FRONT. SO THE FRONT IS FLIPPED. IT'S JUST, TO ME, I'M HAVING A REAL DIFFICULT TO ACCEPT THIS. AND ESPECIALLY, I MEAN, I KNOW AND THE HOUSE, THE RIGHT, I MEAN, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, WE ALWAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS A LOT OF PROPERTIES AND ABOUT BEING AFFORDABLE AND SOLUTIONS. AND THESE ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE GONNA BE SOLD OVER HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. AND, AND, AND, AND YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND LIKE DO IT THE RIGHT WAY THAT WE WANNA APPROVE A HOME THAT ACTUALLY ISN'T GONNA SELL IT. THE HOUSE THAT SELL DIDN'T CLEAN 20, SO SOLD FOR 425,000 IN, YOU WANNA SELL A AND IT HAD WOOD GRAIN ON THE OUTSIDE. BUT THE THING IS, IF WE WANNA JUSTIFY TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE ARE APPROVING HOMES WITH A HIGHER VALUE THAT ARE GONNA CREATE PROBLEMS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALLY LIVING IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT HAVE BEEN LIVING FOR YEARS, ARE NOW BEING PUSHED OUT OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE OF HIGHER VALUES, THEN AT LEAST WE GOTTA SHOW THAT THESE HOMES THAT WE'RE INTRODUCING AT A HIGHER AMOUNT OF MONEY, OVER A MILLION, I MEAN CLOSE TO A MILLION DOLLARS, WHICH PROBABLY BE SOON AT LEAST, ARE WITH A QUALITY THAT WE APPROVED FROM THE BEGINNING. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UM, AND WE, WE WISH WE WOULD'VE CAUGHT IT A LITTLE EARLIER. HOWEVER, THAT BEING SAID, THE HOUSE THAT I SOLD ON 10 21 PALMETTO SOLD FOR HIGHER THAN ANY OTHER HOUSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD EVER. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HAS TO DO WITH APPRAISED VALUE OR PERCEIVED VALUE. I THINK THAT'S JUST A STIPULATION THAT YOU GUYS WANT TO ATTACH TO IT. BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, IS I DON'T THINK WHEN PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE HOUSE, THEY REALLY CARE IF IT'S WOOD FO SIDING OR IF IT'S SMOOTH SIDING, PEOPLE ARE BUYING THEM AND THEY'RE PAYING $450,000 FOR THE HOUSE. SO IF THE CUSTOMER'S OKAY WITH IT, I MEAN, SO WELL THERE ARE GUIDELINES. IT MIGHT, THERE GUIDELINES. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M NOT, THAT WE'RE FOLLOWING. I, I'M AND FO FOE WOOD GRAIN CEMENT BOARD SIDING IS NOT ONE OF THE GUIDELINES. CORRECT. SMOOTH SIDING. NO. I UNDERSTAND THAT FROM MAYBE WELL, UH, MAYBE FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT TO BE ABLE TO, UM, MOVE FORWARD A LITTLE BIT. UH, I BELIEVE THE HOUSE THAT THE APPLICANT IS MENTIONING THAT, UH, PREVIOUSLY HAD A SIMILAR ISSUE, UM, SOME OF THAT ISSUE WAS CORRECTED BY THE APPLICANT, UM, PUTTING, APPLYING, UH, A THICKER ACRYLIC PAINT THAT THEN, UH, ESSENTIALLY COVERED UP THE FAUX WOOD GRAIN. UH, SO IN LOOKING AT, UH, POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS FOR EMOTION MOVING FORWARD, UH, THERE'S THE, UH, FAUX WOOD GRAIN THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT. UH, THERE'S THE EXPOSURE ON THE SIDING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT. THERE'S THE FENESTRATION PROFILE OR THE WINDOW PROFILES THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT. UH, AND THEN THERE'S THE ACTUAL WINDOWS THEMSELVES. UH, STAFF DOES NOT HAVE, UH, STAFF FINDS IT TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE APPLICANT TO, UH, AMEND FROM A WOOD OR AN ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW TO AN ALUMINUM WINDOW. UH, HOWEVER, THAT WINDOW WOULD NEED TO MEET STAFF STANDARDS. THE WINDOW THAT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW, UH, MEET STAFF STANDARDS IN A LOT OF WAYS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF UNEQUAL SASHES IN THE MEETING RAIL NOT BEING, UH, CENTERED IN THERE BEING, UH, AN ACTUAL SINGLE HUNG OR IN THE DOUBLE HUNG CONFIGURATION, UH, OR A ONE OVER ONE CONFIGURATION, I SHOULD SAY. UH, SO, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ITEMS THAT THE COMMISSION CAN SEE NOW THAT YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU'RE NOT AS CONCERNED WITH, UM, OR IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO START TAKING OR MAKING MOTIONS TO TAKE ACTION ON CERTAIN ITEMS. IF I MAY ADD ONE MORE THING PLEASE TOO. UM, WHEN WE KNEW WE COULDN'T GET THE WOOD WINDOWS, I ACTUALLY ATTEMPTED [01:15:01] TO TRY AND FIND WINDOWS THAT WOULD WORK. BUT NOW I'M SIX MONTHS INTO THE PROJECT, AND IF THAT'S STILL FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS OUT, WHICH IS WHAT EVEN THE SECONDARY WINDOW THAT I WANTED TO GET IS YOU MENTIONED AFFORDABILITY. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT DECISION. I'VE BUILT HOMES AND SPENT $17,000 ON WINDOWS IN HISTORICAL DISTRICTS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING THAT. I WENT WITH AVAILABILITY, WHAT I COULD GET MY HANDS ON THE QUICKEST, MAKE IT LOOK GOOD. I THINK THAT LOOKS GOOD. AND I THINK THAT WOULD, THE HOUSE WOULD STILL SELL FOR $450,000, WHICH IS WHAT I PLAN ON PUTTING ON THE MARKET FOR. SO, I MEAN, SO HERE WE'RE TRYING, WE'RE DOING THE BEST THAT WE CAN, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE'RE NOT PERFECT, BUT WE DID FLIP THE FRONT WHEN WE NOTICED THAT THEY DID IT WRONG AND THE OTHER HOUSE IS FLIPPED. SO REAL QUICK. SO ONE HOUSE IS COMPLETELY FLIPPED, CORRECT. AND ONE, IT'S ONLY ON THE FRONT. YES. OKAY, MR. CHAIR, UH, JUST A MOMENT, MR. CERVANTES, I JUST KINDA WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND. SO SOMEONE ELSE DID THE WORK FOR YOU ON FLIPPING THE, UH, THE FACADE THERE? YOU DIDN'T, YOU DIDN'T, YOU DIDN'T PUT, YOU DIDN'T PUT THE SIDING ON, OUR FRAMERS DID THAT. YOUR FRAMERS DID THAT? YES. YOU PAID 'EM FOR THAT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS WRONG. CORRECT. OKAY. I JUST, YOU KNOW, IN TRYING TO COMMUNICATE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT, I THINK WHAT COMMISSIONER GRU WAS SAYING, 'CAUSE SHE REFERENCED ME, IS SHE'S SAYING THAT YOU'RE GETTING TOP DOLLAR FOR THE HOUSE. YES. AND WHEN A HOUSE IS NOT ADDING VALUE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH RESPECT TO AFFORDABILITY, THEN THE LEVEL OF, OF, UM, DUE DILIGENCE ON THE PART OF THE OWNER YES, SIR. IS, YOU KNOW, REALLY MAXIMUM. SO THAT IF THE GUIDELINE SAYS THIS AND YOU'RE GONNA PROFIT AT THAT, THEN THE EXPECTATION IS THAT YOU'RE GONNA FOLLOW ALL THE RULES. CORRECT. RIGHT. THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S THE SPIRIT OF WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS. RIGHT. APPRECIATE THE, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU DISCLOSING TO US THAT YOUR CONTRACTOR GOT AHEAD OF THE GAME. AND I GUESS WITH RESPECT TO CREDIBILITY, RIGHT? WHERE YOU HAVE ONE THAT'S FLIPPED, OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING WENT WRONG ON THE OTHER ONE. CORRECT. NOW, ON THE WINDOW SITUATION, I'VE GOTTA TELL YOU, YOU WITH ALL THE WINDOWS THAT COME BEFORE US, THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL DETAIL. THANK YOU. UH, UM, I MEAN, IT, IT, IT IT REALLY DOES, UM, UH, SHOW YOUR, YOUR EFFORT IN TRYING TO MAKE THAT WINDOW HAVE THE FEEL OF, OF A, OF A, YOU KNOW, A CLASSIC WINDOW, RIGHT? YES, SIR. UM, HAVE YOU BOUGHT THE WINDOWS, ALL THE WINDOWS FOR THE BUILDINGS? OR YOU'RE JUST COMING TO US BECAUSE YOU ARE PROPOSING TO GET THIS WINDOW? WELL, ON THE FIRST HOUSE WE BOUGHT JUST A COUPLE. AND THEN I STARTED THIS CONVERSATION IN FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR WITH EDWARD. AND DURING THAT TIME WE HAD GOT INSULATION IN DRYWALL, PUT IN EVERYTHING ELSE. AND IT JUST GOT TO THE POINT WHERE I WAS LIKE, LOOK, I, HE SAID IT LOOKED PRETTY GOOD, BUT HE SAID THAT WE STILL NEED TO GET IN FRONT OF H D R C AND EVERYTHING. UM, SO I DID BUY ALL THE WINDOWS FOR THE FIRST HOUSE, BUT I HAVEN'T BOUGHT ANY FOR THE SECOND HOUSE. 'CAUSE I WAS WAITING TO GET THROUGH THIS MEETING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, WELL, WELL, IF WE WERE, IF WE WERE LIKE SAYING, OKAY, HOW CAN WE GET AS CLOSE TO BACK ON BASE AS, AS WE WERE, I WOULD THINK THAT, THAT THE UNCOMFORTABLE PLACE WOULD BE THE WINDOWS. BECAUSE I THINK EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES THAT HARDY BOARD ONCE IT'S PUT ON, IF YOU TAKE IT OFF, YOU'RE GONNA DESTROY IT. IT'S NO GOOD ANYMORE. RIGHT. IT'S NOT LIKE WOOD. UM, IF, IF WE HAD A NEGOTIATION POINT, RIGHT, A POINT TO SAY, LET'S GET BACK ON TRACK THE WINDOW, I THINK THE STICKING SIDE OF THE WINDOW IS THAT YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD DETAIL, BUT THE EXPECTATION IS THAT THE TOP AND THE BOTTOM ARE EQUAL. AND THE SASHES RUNNING DOWN THE MIDDLE WITH RESPECT TO THE MATERIAL. I THINK THE COMMISSION HERE CAN HAVE A BETTER, UH, UM, CONVERSATION WITH YOU ABOUT WHAT THEY EXPECTED. MATERIALS, I'M, I'M, YOU KNOW, I, I CAN, UM, NOT NECESSARILY HAVE THE BEST OPINION ON WHAT, WHAT A WINDOW SHOULD BE, BUT THE EVEN PLACEMENT OF THE, OF THE TOP AND BOTTOM, THAT IF YOU GO OUT TO GET WINDOWS, THAT THE EXPECTATION WOULD BE THAT HITTING THAT POINT TO GET BACK TO WHERE GET, GET YOU BACK ON TRACK WHERE YOU'RE FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINE. RIGHT. WOULD AT THE VERY LEAST BEGIN WITH A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE WINDOWS HAVING TO BE EQUAL ON TOP AND EQUAL ON BOTTOM. RIGHT. I KNOW THERE'S SOME DISCOMFORT THERE, RIGHT. BUT, UM, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT MAYBE WE CAN, UM, CHALK UP TO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE. BUT LET'S GET TO THE WINDOW AND LET, LET ME, LET ME, LET ME TURN IT OVER TO THE REST OF THE COMMISSION BECAUSE THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS STUFF THAN I DO WITH RESPECT TO WHAT THEIR EXPECTATIONS ARE. OKAY. IF I MAY, PLEASE. UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND LIKE I SAID, THAT'S WHAT I ORDERED. I PUT VERY BIG DEPOSIT DOWN ON THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS, AND I EVEN LOOKED FOR A SECONDARY WINDOW THAT WOULD MEET THE STANDARDS. SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, WHEN I'M, IF I'M TO GO THE ROUTE THAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT, IT'S GONNA BE FOUR MONTHS BEFORE I CAN GET THE WINDOW THAT I WANT. AND I'M DONE WITH THIS HOUSE IN 45 DAYS AND I'M DONE WITH THE OTHER HOUSE IN 60. SO THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I, I TEMPTED TO GET THE WINDOWS THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO GET. SO WE HAVE WORKED VERY HARD. [01:20:02] THAT WOULD ALSO MEAN TO TAKE OUT EVERY WINDOW WE'D HAVE TO REDO EVERY LITTLE BIT OF INTRICATE SIDING THAT WE PUT ON THERE, ALL THE TRIM THAT WE PUT ON THESE WINDOWS, WHICH IT'S COSTING ME QUITE A BIT OF MONEY TO ACTUALLY DO. EVERY WINDOW HAS TO BE SPECIALLY CUT AND ALL THE TRIM WORK HAS TO BE DONE. SO AGAIN, WE HAVE ATTEMPTED VERY HUMBLY AND DIFFICULT TO MAKE THE WINDOWS THE WAY THAT YOU GUYS WANT 'EM, AND THE SPECS THAT YOU GUYS WANT WITH THE AVAILABILITY THAT WE NEED. 'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN WAITING ON WINDOWS FOR EIGHT MONTHS. SO I I I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE PUSHED REALLY HARD TO TRY AND MEET YOU GUYS' EXPECTATIONS. AND I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT RIGHT NOW WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH MR. CHAIR RAW MATERIALS. AND ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WITH THE, WITH THE ITEMS THAT LOGISTICS ARE DIS OR, OR NOT PLEASING TO THE COMMISSION, I UNDERSTAND THE, THE, ALL THAT. IF, IF, IF WE'RE JUST DEALING WITH THE WINDOWS, I WANNA JUST TELL YOU THAT THE WINDOW, THE WINDOWS THAT WE'RE SEEING COMING BEFORE US, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST CASE. THEY'RE VERY REFLECTIVE OF THE TIME. AND I LIKE THE IDEA THAT 80 YEARS FROM NOW, SOMEONE'S GONNA ASK A QUESTION ABOUT WHY THE WINDOWS ARE THE WAY THEY ARE, AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE PANDEMIC, OR THEY'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE, THE WAR. AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE BEAUTY OF, OF, OF THE NARRATIVE OF, OF, UM, THE ELEMENTS WE FIND IN HOUSES, IN OLD HOUSES. WHY ARE THEY THIS WAY OR WHY ARE THEY THAT WAY? I, I'M, I HAVE NO PROBLEM PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE DETAIL THAT THEY CAME UP WITH. I THINK IT'S A REALLY NICE DETAIL. AND, AND THE, THE NARRATIVE DOES EMBED, THE, THE PRESENTATION THAT THE GENTLEMAN'S MAKING WITH US IS A, IS A RELEVANT NARRATIVE TO WHY ARE BUILDINGS LOOKING THE WAY THEY'RE LOOKING TODAY, EVEN IF IT'S JUST WITH RESPECT TO THE DIVISION OF THE WINDOWS. BUT TO COMMISSIONER GRU'S POINT, I DON'T WANT TO IN ANY WAY TAKE AWAY FROM Y'ALL'S EXPECTATION OF WHAT Y'ALL EXPECTED FROM THE PROJECT, BUT I DON'T WANNA TAKE IT OUT ON THE WINDOWS BECAUSE I THINK IT'S RELEVANT, THE ARGUMENT THAT HE'S MAKING. UH, SO THIS ARE MY COMMENTS, SIR. THANK YOU, SIR. ONE MORE THING TOO. SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, MA'AM, MRS. GROUP, MRS. THAT IS THE SIDE OF THE SECOND HOUSE. SO THAT IS SIGHTING, THAT'S FLIPPED. SO WE JUST MISSED IT. WE DIDN'T CATCH THE GUYS QUICK ENOUGH ON THE FIRST HOUSE, BUT THAT IS A WINDOW ON, ON THE SIDE OF THE SECOND HOUSE. THAT'S JUST WHERE WE PUT UP A TEMPORARY WINDOW SO WE COULD DO THE, THE EVERYTHING AND TAKE A PICTURE AND SEND IT TO MR. HALL. SO I KNOW, BUT THAT'S NOT THE WINDOW THAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT ON THIS FIRST HOME. ON THE FIRST HOME. YOU HAVE ONE PANEL WINDOWS AND YOU WANNA KEEP ALL THOSE WINDOWS. NO, THAT NO. UH, YES WE DO. CORRECT. AND I EVEN BROUGHT THAT UP. THAT WAS A, WHEN WE ORDERED IT, IT SAYS IN THE PLANS FIXED GLASS. AND I SAID, IF WE NEED TO EXCHANGE THOSE TWO WINDOWS OUT AND MAKE THEM OPERABLE WINDOWS, WE CAN DO THAT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING THAT. WHAT TWO? THERE'S SEVERAL. NO, THERE'S, THAT'S THE ONLY ONE. THE ONES ON THE, ON THE, ON THE, UH, STAIRCASE ARE NOT OPERABLE WINDOWS. YOU DON'T PUT OPERABLE WINDOWS ON STAIRCASE. NO, BUT YOU WERE GONNA DO IT WITH THE, WITH THE, WITH THE RIGHT. THE TWO OVER TWO. OR AT LEAST WITH A, OH, SORRY. AND WHAT'S THE WORD, MUTTONS? YEP. I MEAN, IF YOU WANT US TO RUN A PIECE OF TRIM ACROSS IT, WE CAN DO THAT. THAT'S FINE. I, WHAT I'M SAYING IS I WANT, THAT'S THE STAIRWELL DO WHAT IN THE TOP WINDOWS PLAN DOES. AND IF YOU BACK IN FEBRUARY TALKED WITH STAFF, IT'S REALLY INDIFFERENT BECAUSE YOU WENT AHEAD AND ORDERED A WINDOW THAT WAS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WAS APPROVED WITHOUT COMING COMMISSION. SO NOW WE'RE WE'RE EVEN WORSE BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T TALK TO US BACK THEN WHEN YOU DID PLACE THE ORDER, WHICH WE COULD MAYBE HAVE AVOIDED OR WE COULD HAVE FOUND A SOLUTION. BUT NOW YOU'VE ACTUALLY INSTALLED WINDOWS ORDER THEM INSTALLED PAID CONTRACTORS. SO WE'RE EVEN IN A WORSE PLACE RIGHT NOW. MR. CHAIR? YES. COMMISSIONER ZAINO. IN THE INTEREST OF RESOLVING THIS AND, UM, FULFILLING OUR ROLE, UM, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. YES MA'AM. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT, ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, NUMBER ONE, EXCEPT NUMBER TWO. EXCEPT NUMBER THREE. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD NUMBER FOUR TO ACCEPT THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST FOR A REAR ELEVATION CHANGES, INCLUDING THE REMOVAL OF THE DECK AND THE ROOFTOP TERRACE ASSEMBLY. OKAY. SO YOU WANT US TO NOT DO THE DECK ANYMORE? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? I'M SORRY. ACCORDING TO STAFF'S FINDINGS, THOUGHT THAT WAS THE UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WERE NO LONGER DOING THE REAR DECK. NO, NO, NO. I AM, I I WAS ACTUALLY HOPING THE WOOD LUMBER WOULD DROP IN PRICE BEFORE I ACTUALLY ORDERED ALL THE WOOD FOR IT. SO, UM, I THINK IT'S A HUGE PART. SO ON 10 21 PALMETTO THAT I DID THE GREENHOUSE DOWN THE STREET, THE REASON WHY [01:25:01] IS THAT STREET PALMETTO HAS A REALLY GOOD LOOK OF DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. SO IF YOU HAVE THE DECK, YOU GET TO SEE THE TOWER OF AMERICAS, YOU GET TO SEE. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT INCREASES THE VALUE AND GETS US. SO STAFF, CAN YOU SHOW A GOOGLE VIEW OF THE HOUSE THAT HE'S REFERRING TO? 10, I THINK IT'S 10 21 NORTH PALMETTO. YES, MA'AM. AND IT'S THE WEST ELEVATION. YES. BEAR WITH ME. AND MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE FINDINGS WAS THAT THAT WAS A REQUEST BECAUSE YOU HAD MADE, UH, ELEVATION CHANGES ON THE WEST. YES. ON THE REAR. JUST SO YOU KNOW, IT WAS MORE OF A TERRACE, WHICH WAS, IT IS ACTUALLY OVER SOME LIVING SPACE RIGHT THERE. UM, BUT WE ACTUALLY ON THIS ONE, IT'S GONNA BE A DECK. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S GONNA BE PRETTY DESTROY DECK. MR. BENFIELD, WHO WAS YOUR ARCHITECT FOR THIS, UM, ANO. SO COMMISSIONER SAVINO, BACK TO YOUR REC YOUR, YOUR MOTION, UH, YOU'RE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, THE INSTALLATION OF ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, WHICH INCLUDE THE APPLICANT MEETING THE WINDOWS STANDARDS, CORRECT? YES, SIR. OKAY. UH, MR. BENFIELD, THAT WILL, THAT DOES MEAN THAT THE WINDOWS THAT ARE CURRENTLY INSTALLED WILL NEED TO BE REMOVED AND YOU'LL NEED TO INSTALL A WINDOW THAT MATCHES THESE STANDARDS THAT ARE ON THE SCREEN. UM, COMMISSIONER SAVINO, UH, DID YOU, I BELIEVE YOU DID NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER OR THAT YOU MOTION, UH, FOR ITEM NUMBER TWO TO NOT BE APPROVED, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT THE WINDOW PROFILE, SO ONE OVER ONE WHERE THERE'S CURRENTLY, UH, PICTURE WINDOWS, UH, THAT THOSE BE MODIFIED AND THAT THE WINDOW PROFILE OR THE WINDOW FENESTRATION PROFILES THAT WERE APPROVED ORIGINALLY BE MAINTAINED, CORRECT? YES, I AGREE WITH THAT. TO INCLUDE OPERABLE UNITS. AND THEN, UH, COMMISSIONER SAVINO FOR ITEM NUMBER THREE, UH, WHICH IS THE, UH, SIDING, UH, I MISSED WHAT YOUR RECOMMEND OR YOUR MOTION WAS FOR THAT, TO ACCEPT STAFF'S FINDING, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH WOULD BE, EXCUSE ME. SO MR. BENFIELD, THAT WOULD BE FOR, UH, THE SIDING. ALL SIDING WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED AND YOU WOULD NEED TO INSTALL A HORIZONTAL PROFILE, LAP SIDING, FOUR INCH EXPOSURE WITH THE SMOOTH FINISH. SO WE HAVE A MOTION, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. AM I, AM I ABLE TO MAKE THE FOURTH ONE BECAUSE OF THE ELEVATION CHANGE? BECAUSE THERE'S A ELEV, UH, A SIGNIFICANT, AM I CORRECT STAFF IN SEEING THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT ELEVATION CHANGE ON THE REAR ELEVATION, WHICH IS THE WEST, WEST FACING? THAT IS CORRECT. THAT THERE'S FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS THAT OCCUR. UM, SORRY, LET ME FIND THE PHOTO BECAUSE THAT SHOULD ALSO BE CORRECT. AND THAT'S CAPTURED IN STAFF'S COMMENTS IN REGARDS TO FENESTRATION AND DESIGN CHANGES OR FACADE MODIFICATIONS ON THE, UH, NORTH, SOUTH AND WEST FACADES. GOT IT. THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE A MOTION? DO WE HAVE A SECOND? A SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SAVINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP? AYE. SANTE? YES. GIBBS. AYE. BETTS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. I DONE. THANK YOU. AND MR. BENFIELD, YOU CAN ALWAYS APPEAL THIS TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. ILL FOR SURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 19. ITEM 19 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 2 7 2 5 19 NORTH MEDINA, THE APPLICANT REQUESTS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE 30 OPERABLE METAL S WINDOWS WITH FIXED FIBERGLASS SASH WINDOWS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH C STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSE A WINDOW TYPE THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH STAFF STANDARDS FOR REPLACEMENT WINDOWS AS NOTED IN THE APPLICABLE APP, APPLICABLE CITATIONS AND BELOW. AND I HAVE, UH, TWO REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE AMERICAN GI FORUM, UH, SERGIO DICKERSON AND PAUL BERNAL, AS WELL AS A REPRESENTATIVE FROM PELLA. AND I'M NOT SURE WHETHER MR. MR. FLORES PLANS TO COME UP AS WELL. I THINK IT'LL JUST BE THE TWO OF US. THANK YOU SO MUCH. CAN YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF, SIR? SURE. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. [01:30:01] MY NAME IS SER DICKERSON. UH, WITH REGARDS TO THE FIVE 19 NORTH MEDINA, UH, IT WAS BUILT IN, UH, 1947. IT WAS A, UM, PAPER MILL WHEN IT WAS BUILT IN 2005. IT WAS PURCHASED BY THE AMERICAN GI FORUM, OUR COMPANY, AND THEN IT WAS, UH, REPURPOSED AS A VETERAN'S RESIDENTIAL CENTER. IT NOW HAS 140 VETERANS AND 35 STAFF. I THINK THAT'S RELEVANT TO THE WINDOW DISCUSSION. UM, OUR HOPE IS THAT WE CAN INCORPORATE A SOLUTION THAT, UM, FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF THE WINDOWS, UH, THAT IS BOTH TRUE TO THE ORIGINAL DESIGN, WHICH WE, WE HOPE ALSO AND ADDRESSES THE NEEDS OF THE VETERANS, BOTH SAFETY AND ENERGY CONSERVATION PIECE OF IT. AND I'LL GO AHEAD AND LET, UH, MS. MARIBEL SPEAK. I THINK SHE HAS THAT DESIGNED, AND I'LL LET YOU GO AHEAD AND TALK IF YOU WANT. I CAN GO AHEAD AND SURE. THIS. SURE. UM, UH, HELLO EVERYBODY. MY NAME IS MARI BELL ZIMMERMAN AND I WORK, UM, FOR PELLA WINDOWS AND DOORS, UH, A BRANCH HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. UM, AND THANK YOU FOR, UH, LISTENING TO, TO, TO US AND WHAT WE'D LIKE TO PRESENT AND PROPOSE. UM, I ACTUALLY, UM, HAVE BEEN IN THE WINDOW BUSINESS, UM, FOR OVER 32 YEARS REPRESENTING WOOD WINDOWS, MAINLY, UM, VINYL WINDOWS AND FIBERGLASS WINDOWS. SO, UM, IN MY HISTORY, IN MY EXPERIENCE, UM, PEOPLE DO COME, COME TO ME FOR, UH, SOLUTIONS AND, UH, CONSULTATION AS WELL, UM, REGARDING WINDOW REPLACEMENT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, FOR HISTORIC, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, APPLICATIONS, COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL. SO, UM, THE REASON I'M HERE IS ACTUALLY BECAUSE I WAS CALLED ON, UM, BY MR. FLORES AND MR. DICKERSON AS WELL AS MR. BERNARD TO ADDRESS, UH, SOLUTIONS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR, FOR THE ISSUES THAT THEY WERE HAVING. AND SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT THEY WERE HAVING REGARDING THE, THE PROPERTY. UM, IS, UM, HEAT GAIN. HEAT GAIN, UM, BECAUSE THIS BUILDING IS NOT A FACTORY ANYMORE, THIS BUILDING NOW IS A, UM, A PLACE WHERE VETERANS ACTUALLY LIVE. SO, UH, BEHIND THESE WINDOWS, THESE WINDOWS THAT YOU SEE RIGHT HERE IN THESE ELEVATIONS, THERE ARE, UM, VETERANS THAT ARE ACTUALLY LIVING THERE. THEY SLEEP, YOU KNOW, UH, THERE, THERE'S ROOMS THERE, UM, WHERE THEY, THEY OCCUPY AS WELL AS, UM, ON SOME OF THE OTHER ELEVATIONS, OUR STAFF MEMBERS AS WELL. BUT SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WERE BROUGHT TO US, OR, UM, OR TO ME WERE WHAT TYPE OF SYSTEMS CAN WE OFFER? WE KNOW THAT WE WANNA REPLACE THE WINDOWS BECAUSE OF THE INHERENT, UM, INEFFICIENCIES THAT THESE PARTICULAR WINDOWS PROVIDE. UM, AND THE OTHER, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE DEALING WITH SAFETY MATTERS. THE CURRENT WINDOWS THAT YOU SEE IN THESE ELEVATIONS ARE ACTUALLY OPERABLE AWNING WINDOWS WITH A MIX OF FIXED WINDOWS AS WELL. SO, UM, ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS, UM, IN ORDER TO ADDRESS SAFETY WAS CAN WE MAKE THESE WINDOWS OR CAN WE REPLACE THESE WINDOWS WITH FIXED WINDOW SYSTEMS BECAUSE WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT OUR VETERANS. UM, AND, UM, SOME OF MY SOLUTIONS THAT I PRESENTED SAID, YES, WE CAN, BUT , BEING THAT IT'S A HISTORIC PROJECT, THERE'S, UM, A COMMITTEE THAT WE NEED TO ALSO, UM, ADDRESS. SO THERE WAS OTHER CONCERNS, NOT ONLY SAFETY, THAT ALSO, UM, WERE BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION, AND THAT WAS THE INEFFICIENCY, UM, THAT THESE WINDOWS ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE OR ACTUALLY HAVE. UM, THESE ARE ACTUALLY ALL STEEL SYSTEM. UM, AND OF COURSE, BEING METAL, BEING STEEL, STEEL, YOU KNOW, CONDUCTS, ABSORBS, TRANSMIT, UH, HEAT. UM, SO DURING THE HOT SUMMERS, DURING THE, UM, IN FACT, EVEN THE MORNINGS, YOU KNOW, LIKE NOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF HEAT GAIN, UH, THROUGH THOSE WINDOWS. UM, ONE PARTICULAR BECAUSE OF THE FRAMES, UH, THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT YOU HAVE. THE OTHER IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO INSULATING FACTORS IN THE GLASS ITSELF. THESE ARE SINGLE PANE, UH, GLASS, UM, EXCUSE ME. SO, UM, AND OF COURSE THE OTHER, UM, THE OTHER CHALLENGE WAS CAN WE BRING SOMETHING THAT WE CAN AFFORD? UM, BECAUSE, UM, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE, UM, UM, THE A G I F, UM, BOARD, THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FUNDING. UM, SO THERE WAS A LOT OF CHALLENGES THAT WERE PRESENT REPRESENTED TO ME. SO IN TRYING TO LOOK FOR SOMETHING AND TO ADDRESS ALL THE ISSUES THAT THEY WERE HAVING, UM, THERE WAS ALSO ONE MORE ISSUE THAT, YOU KNOW, WAS PRESENTED. THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE VETERANS THAT ARE [01:35:01] ALSO SLEEPING, UM, THERE'S, UH, UH, DORMITORIES BEHIND THESE WINDOWS. THERE'S A LOT OF NOISE, UM, COMING IN FROM THAT ADJACENT STREET. SO, UH, WE HAD TO ALSO COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS TO ADDRESS SOUND, UH, CONTROL. SO, UM, WITH ALL THESE VARIOUS TYPES OF ISSUES THAT, UM, THE BUILDING WAS HAVING, YES, UM, WE UNDERSTOOD THAT IT WAS A HISTORIC PROPERTY, SO WE NEEDED TO RESPECT THE INTEGRITY OF THAT BUILDING. SO IN TRYING TO FIND SOLUTIONS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT WE NEEDED TO HELP, UM, ADDRESS, WE ACTUALLY DID LOOK AT VARIOUS WINDOW FRAMES. WE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, STEEL SYSTEMS, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS ALREADY SOMETHING THAT, UM, WE WERE NOT GOING TO SUPPORT IN MY VIEW, IN MY, UM, IN MY EXPERTISE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE, YOU KNOW, THE CONDUCTION AND THE, UH, TRANSFER OF HEAT THAT YOU HAVE WITH METAL WINDOWS AND STEEL WINDOWS, BESIDES THE FACT THAT STEEL WINDOWS TODAY ARE ABOUT FIVE TIMES TO SIX TIMES THE COST OF A WOOD WINDOW. SO WE WEREN'T SURE THAT THE BOARD MEMBERS, UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR BUILDING WE'RE ABLE, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO, TO ADDRESS. SO WE ALSO LOOKED AT VINYL, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, VINYL'S ANOTHER PRODUCT THAT, UM, THAT IS OUT THERE IN THE MARKET. BUT KNOWING THAT THIS IS A HISTORIC PROPERTY, OBVIOUSLY VINYL WENT OUT THE WINDOW. UM, WE LOOKED AT WOOD WINDOWS, HOWEVER, IN LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY, WE SAW, WELL, THESE ARE ORIGINALLY STEEL WINDOWS. HOW CAN WE BRING A, A WOOD WINDOW INTO THIS AS, AS A SOLUTION? SO, UM, EVERYTHING WAS ACTUALLY, UM, DIRECTING ME TO COME UP WITH ANOTHER SOLUTION FOR THEM. AND THAT IS OUR FIBERGLASS, UH, FRAMED WINDOWS. UM, THE PROPERTIES OF THAT FIBERGLASS BRINGS TO THEM IS THAT IT IS A VERY DURABLE MATERIAL. UM, IT'S DESIGNED FOR LONGEVITY, STABILITY, IT'S DESIGNED, IT'S A HIGH PERFORMANCE WINDOW. UM, YOU KNOW, WE USE IT A LOT IN COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS. UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A CONDUCTIVE MATERIAL LIKE A METAL WOULD BE, LIKE A STEEL, LIKE AN ALUMINUM WOULD BE. SO, UM, IT WOULD OFFER INSULATING PROPERTIES FOR THE OOC OCCUPANTS, UH, WHICH THAT, YOU KNOW, ALWAYS KEPT, UH, IN MY MIND. UM, THE PRODUCT WILL NOT, OR THE MATERIAL WILL NOT CORRODE. IT'S NOT, UM, UH, WILL NOT RUST LIKE A METAL. UM, IT WILL NOT ROT, UH, LIKE WOOD. UM, AND IT IS MULTIPLE TIMES, UH, MORE IMPACT RESISTANT, UM, IN TERMS OF, UM, INADVERTENT CONSTRUCTION DAMAGE BECAUSE WE USE THEM IN REPLACEMENT AS WELL AS NEW CONSTRUCTION. SO IT IS SCRATCH RESISTANT, UM, DENT RESISTANT, DAMAGE RESISTANT. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF PROPERTIES THAT WAS MAKING THIS PARTICULAR WINDOW FRAME AND APPLICABLE, UH, FOR THIS CONDITION. UM, COUPLED WITH INSULATING GLASS, UH, OBVIOUSLY WE CAME UP WITH A, IN A TREMENDOUS, TREMENDOUS INSULATIVE, UH, TYPE OF A, OF A PRODUCT, OF A WINDOW. UM, AND OF COURSE, THE FINISHES, UH, THEY'RE FACTOR FINISHES. UH, SO THEY'RE LOW MAINTENANCE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T REQUIRE PAINTING FINISHING OF ANY KIND. IT'S ALREADY PRE-FINISHED, UH, FOR THEM. SO, BUT WE WERE CIRCLING AROUND AND THE REASON WE'RE HERE IS BEING THAT IT'S THIS HISTORIC BUILDING. HOW CAN WE PRESERVE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THIS BEAUTIFUL BUILDING WITH THIS SOLUTION? THAT'S, YOU KNOW, A QUESTION THAT WAS CIRCLING US, UM, ALL THROUGHOUT. AND THE ANSWER IS YES, WE CAN, WE CAN ACTUALLY HELP MAINTAIN THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING. IN THIS PARTICULAR WINDOW SYSTEMS, YOU HAVE TWO MAIN COMPONENTS. UM, DESIGN WISE, YOU HAVE VERTICAL ELEMENTS, YOU HAVE HORIZONTAL ELEMENTS, AND THE VERTICAL ELEMENTS ARE YOUR SUPPORTIVE, UM, MEMBERS. UM, OF THE WINDOWS. THESE WINDOWS, ACTUALLY WIDTH WISE, ARE ABOUT 46 FEET, OR ACTUALLY OVER 46 FEET IN LENGTH, THE ENTIRE OPENING. SO IT'S AN EXTREMELY LARGE WINDOW. THE HEIGHT OF THE WINDOW IS SEVEN FEET, UH, SEVEN, UH, 10 INCHES, SO ALMOST EIGHT FEET IN HEIGHT. SO THEY'RE HUGE, HUGE OPENINGS. UM, YET, UM, YOU KNOW, AS IN LOOKING AT THE DESIGN, I SAID, WELL, WE ACTUALLY CAN FULFILL, CAN MEET, UM, AND, UH, MAINTAIN THAT ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY WITH THIS TYPE OF A WINDOW. WE CAN ACTUALLY MEET THE VERTICALS. UM, AND THE VERTICAL MEMBERS ACTUALLY DO NEED SUPPORT BECAUSE OF SUCH A EXTREMELY, UM, YOU KNOW, WIDE OPENING. UM, WE CAN ALSO MAINTAIN THE HORIZONTAL ELEMENTS, UM, OF THE, OF THE DESIGN. SO WE ARE NOT CHANGING THAT CHARACTER. WE'RE NOT HERE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, REDESIGN, YOU KNOW, THE OPENINGS OR, OR THE STYLE, [01:40:01] UH, OF THOSE LARGE, LARGE, UM, WINDOW SYSTEMS. WE'RE ACTUALLY HERE TO BRING, UM, A BETTER TYPE OF A, YOU KNOW, INSULATIVE, UH, PRODUCT AND STILL MAINTAIN THOSE VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL MEMBERS THAT YOU HAVE IN THIS BUILDING. SO WE DON'T WANT TO, UH, DISTURB THAT, THAT, UH, ARCHITECTURAL, UH, INTEGRITY. UM, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO OFFER OUR VETERANS A BETTER TYPE OF A INSULATIVE, UH, WINDOW BECAUSE THEY RESIDE IN THAT BUILDING. THERE'S ALSO STAFF MEMBERS THAT WORK IN THAT BUILDING. SO, UM, OUR SOLUTION, UM, THAT I WANTED TO BRING AND SHOW YOU IS, UM, UH, OUR FIBER, UH, FRAMED LOW E INSULATED WINDOW SYSTEM. DO, THIS IS NOT THE FINAL LOOK, THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. GET TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE. SURE. I'M SORRY. THIS IS, IS, UH, THIS IS NOT THE FINAL LOOK. THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF THE WINDOW. IT WOULD OBVIOUSLY MATCH THE PANES THAT ARE SET UP THE SAME NUMBERS, UH, THE SAME STRUCTURE, THE SAME, UH, MEASUREMENTS EXAMPLE, BUT THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE, THE FINISHED PRODUCT. SO IT HAS A METAL LOOK TO IT MORE SO I THINK THAN WOOD DOES. SO AGAIN, WE, WE WOULD ASK YOU TO RELOOK, UH, THAT DECISION BASED ON THE STRENGTH, BASED ON THE INSULATION AND THE DURABILITY OF THAT WINDOW. IT'S NOT A CHEAP WINDOW BY ANY EXTENT. YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT THE, UH, THE, I'M SORRY. YEAH, IT, IT'S GOT THAT, UH, WHAT IS IT? UH, ARAGON, WHAT IS, UH, THE INSIDE? YES, THE INSIDE OF THE GLASS, OBVIOUSLY IT'S A LOW E TYPE OF AN INSULATED GLASS. IT'S AGON GAS FILLED. UM, BUT THE MAIN PROPERTIES OF THIS TYPE OF WINDOWS TO BE ABLE TO OFFER INSULATING VALUES, UM, YOU KNOW, TO THAT ENTIRE OPENING, UH, BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND WHO RESIDES BEHIND THAT WINDOW WALL. UM, SO WE ARE ACTUALLY REPLICATING THE HORIZONTAL, UM, ELEMENTS. UM, SO WE ARE NOT CHANGING THE DESIGN, WE'RE KEEPING THE DESIGN. THIS IS JUST AN ABBREVIATED FORM OF WHAT THE WINDOW WOULD ACTUALLY BE. OBVIOUSLY THIS, THIS IS JUST LIKE A, A THREE FOOT, SIX TALL WINDOW, BUT IN THOSE PARTICULAR OPENINGS ON THE EXISTING BUILDING, YOU HAVE WINDOWS THAT ARE ALMOST EIGHT FEET TALL. SO WE WOULD REPLICATE ALSO THE HORIZONTAL LIGHTS AS WELL. UM, AND I SEE THAT THERE'S FIVE HORIZONTAL LIGHTS. WE WOULD DO THAT. UM, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD ALSO, UM, ADDRESS THE VERTICAL MEMBERS, WHICH ARE ACTUALLY YOUR HORIZON, YOUR STRUCTURAL MEMBERS OF THE OPENING. SO, OKAY, SO IS THAT TIME. SO REALLY WE, WE WOULD JUST ASK THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER THIS DESIGN. UH, YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVEN'T BOUGHT IT YET, BUT WE CONSIDER THAT DESIGN, UH, AND, UH, OR TELL US, YOU KNOW, WHAT COMPROMISE WE SHOULD MAKE BASED ON YOUR ORIGINAL SUGGESTIONS SO THAT WE CAN GO AHEAD AND MOVE FORWARD ON THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY, UH, CITIZENS TO BE HEARD? WE DO NOT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THANK YOU, SIR. APPRECIATE IT. AND THANK YOU TO THE PRESENTERS TODAY. AND MARIBEL, THANK YOU FOR GOING THROUGH THE OPTIONS THAT YOU, YOU EXPLORED. I'M, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE GI FOUR. THEY'RE IMPORTANT, UH, PARTNER, UH, WITH, UH, HAVEN FOR HOPE THAT I WAS INVOLVED WITH THE, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ARCHITECTURE THERE AND, UM, AND AWARE THAT THERE'S A KIND OF COMPLEX USAGE OF THIS BUILDING. PEOPLE LIVING THERE, PEOPLE WORKING THERE, UH, PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SLEEPING THERE 24 7 OCCUPATIONS. SO IT'S, IT'S AN IMPORTANT ASSET IN OUR COMMUNITY IN ADDRESSING HOME, UH, HOMELESS ISSUES AND, UH, ISSUES THAT ARE SPECIFIC TO VETS. SO, UM, I, YOU KNOW, HIGHLY APPRECIATE THE, THE NEED FOR, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF, UH, THERMAL, UH, UH, IN INSULATING PROPERTIES THAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING HERE. UM, IN THE, LOOKING AT THE OPTIONS, DID YOU LOOK AT, UH, THERMALLY BROKEN ALUMINUM FRAMED WINDOWS AS, AS AN OPTION? AND HOW WOULD THOSE PRICE OUT COMPARE TO, LIKE WE SAID, YOU KNOW, THE STEEL WINDOWS ARE ASTRONOMICALLY EXPENSIVE. VINYL WINDOWS ARE ASTRONOMICALLY CHEAP AND, AND, AND NOT DURABLE AT ALL. UM, THE FIBERGLASS IS SORT OF A, A MIDWAY IN IN BETWEEN THOSE. HOW WOULD THE THERMALLY BROKEN INSULATED ALUMINUM WINDOW FACTOR INTO THIS? AND WHAT WAS THAT, SOMETHING THAT WAS EXAMINED? I ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AS WELL. UH, AND THE REASON THERE ARE THERMAL BREAKS IN ALUMINUM IS BECAUSE ALUMINUM WILL ABSORB CONDUCT AND TRANSMIT HEAT, UM, AS WELL AS THE COLD FROM THE OUTSIDE. SO, UM, JUST IN LOOKING AT THE ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE BUILDING, I REALLY DIDN'T THINK THAT AN ALUMINUM THERMALLY BROKEN SYSTEM WOULD BE APPLICABLE IN, UM, IN KEEPING THE INTEGRITY OF THE DESIGN. UM, ALUMINUM AGAIN, UM, WOULD [01:45:01] NOT DO MUCH TO INSULATE THE OCCUPANTS BEHIND THOSE WINDOW WALLS. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE WERE BRINGING IN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, PROPOSING A FIBERGLASS. 'CAUSE FIBERGLASS DOES NOT CONDUCT HEAT OR COLD. IT IS NOT, DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY TYPE OF THERMAL BREAK IN THE PRODUCT BECAUSE OF THE COMPOSITE MATERIAL. UM, SO UNLIKE, YOU KNOW, A METAL ALUMINUM IN, IN THAT CASE. AND, AND THE REASON WHY I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE THAT GETS US JUST A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN INTENT WAS HERE WITH, YOU KNOW, VERY SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECT ATLEY B AIR'S. UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, UH, SORT OF STREAMLINED MODERN, UH, ART DECO BUILDING AND, UH, WITH THE HORIZONTALS SORT OF EMPHASIZED AND THAT SORT OF THING. UM, AND THAT IS AT LEAST STAYING WITHIN THE METAL FAMILY, UH, UH, THAT, THAT, UH, YOU WOULD DO THAT IS, IS THE REASON WHY A, A THERMALLY BROKEN ALUMINUM WINDOW NOT ACCEPTABLE IN YOUR MIND, IS BECAUSE OF THE PROFILES, THE, THE JAMILL HEAD. UH, IT DOESN'T APPROXIMATE WHAT YOU CAN ACHIEVE, UM, UH, TO SORT OF REPLICATE KINDA WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOU HAVE HERE. THE REASON, UM, BASICALLY IT'S BECAUSE, AGAIN, A METAL, UH, ALUMINUM, UM, BEING A METAL JUST AS ANY OTHER METAL, UM, IT ACTUALLY IS A CONDUCTIVE MATERIAL. IT CONDUCTS, UM, BUT A THERMALLY BROKEN ALUMINUM WINDOW DOESN'T CONDUCT METAL. ACTUALLY, THE THERMAL BREAK IN THAT IN AN ALUMINUM SYSTEM IS DIS YES, YOU R IS DESIGNED TO BREAK THAT FLOW OF HEAT, BUT YOU STILL HAVE HEAT PUSHING BEHIND IT. UM, AND COMPARE, IF YOU COMPARE THE U VALUES OR, OR THE TRANSMISSION FROM A THERMALLY BROKEN ALUMINUM TO THE TRANS HEAT TRANSMISSION OF THAT FIBERGLASS, THAT FIBERGLASS STILL WILL EXCEED THE PERFORMANCES OF A THERMALLY BROKEN ALUMINUM SYSTEM. AND, UH, I MEAN, WE, WE'VE GOT TESTING CHARTS ON THAT. WE'VE GOT ENERGY MODELS ON THAT THAT WE CAN PRESENT TO YOU AS WELL. I DIDN'T BRING THEM BECAUSE I MEAN, IT'S, IT REALLY GETS VERY TECHNICAL. UM, BUT I CAN'T PROVIDE THAT IF YOU SO, UM, REQUIRE WE CAN DO THAT. AND THERE HAS BEEN ENERGY MODELS. I WANTED TO ALSO, UM, ASK IF YOU CAN BRING UP, 'CAUSE THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT WE HAVE ACTUALLY, UM, USED FIBERGLASS SYSTEMS IN HISTORIC PROPERTIES, UM, IN THE COUNTRY. THERE'S BEEN, UM, OTHER, UH, UH, HISTORIC EXAMPLES. AND WE DID KIND OF, UH, IN ONE OF THE, UM, UH, YES, IN, IN ONE OF THE, UM, ITEMS THAT, UH, WE SUBMITTED, WE KIND OF BROUGHT IN AN EXAMPLE, UM, AND I WANTED TO SEE IF YOU COULD BRING THAT UP. UM, IT'S, AND THEY HAD THE SIMILAR CONDITION GOING ON THE OLD STEEL SYSTEMS WITH SINGLE PANE, WHICH IN ALUMINUM, SLIDE NUMBER EIGHT, IN WHICH AN ALUMINUM PRODUCT WAS ACTUALLY CONSIDERED. BUT IN DOING THERMAL MODELING AND, AND, UH, COMPARING THE TWO MATERIALS, FIBERGLASS WAS STILL, THERE WE GO. THAT'S IT. THAT IS ACTUALLY THE MITCHELL HALL IN THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO IN ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO. AND IT'S A RENOVATION PROJECT. IF YOU NOTICE, THERE'S VERY SIMILAR ARCHITECTURE, UM, UH, TO THE, YOU KNOW, TO THE I, UH, A G I F BUILDING. UM, VERY SIMILAR WINDOW SYSTEMS, ALTHOUGH THOSE WINDOWS ARE MUCH SMALLER. UM, THE OPENINGS ARE MUCH SMALLER. UH, IN YOUR CASE, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE DEALING WITH, UH, LARGE, LARGE, YOU KNOW, WINDOW OPENINGS. BUT, UM, THEY HAD THE SIMILAR, UM, UH, REQUIREMENTS AND SIMILAR CHALLENGES. UM, BUT, UM, THEY WENT WITH OUR FIBERGLASS PRODUCT AND THE WINDOWS THAT YOU SEE IN THAT BUILDING, THOSE ARE OUR FIBERGLASS SYSTEMS. UM, AND ACTUALLY THOSE ARE WHITE. UM, IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT COLOR, BUT THE ONES THAT YOU SEE THERE ARE, ARE WHITE FRAMES. AND AGAIN, YOU'LL SEE THE HORIZONTAL MEMBERS, YOU'LL SEE THE VERTICAL MEMBERS, AND THOSE ARE FIXED STATIONARY WINDOWS, WHICH WAS A CONCERN THAT WAS ALSO BROUGHT TO US, UM, IN TRYING TO FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THE, UM, FOR THE PROJECT. THANK YOU. UH, COMMISSIONER GRU. OH, I'M SORRY, CHAIRMAN. I JUST HAVE A ONE OTHER QUESTION AND, UM, THAT I'LL YIELD THE FLOOR. UM, REGARDING THE COLOR, NOW IN THE, IN THE MATERIAL BROCHURE THAT IS PROVIDED HERE, THERE WERE ONLY THREE STANDARD COLORS. IS THERE ANY POSSIBILITY TO DO SOMETHING THAT HAS MORE OF A METALLIC COLOR TO IT, TO KEEP WITH IT, WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE, UH, OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING? UM, LET ME ANSWER THIS. UM, THE PRODUCT ACTUALLY COMES IN THREE COLOR, IN THREE COLORS IN ORDER TO TRY TO KEEP THE COST LOW, UH, IN WIN IN WINDOWS. UM, IN THE HISTORY OF, OF, OF, YOU KNOW, SELLING, YOU KNOW, REPRESENTING WINDOWS, THE MORE A WINDOW STYLE HAS [01:50:01] FEATURES, THE MORE BELLS AND WHISTLES A WINDOW HAS, THE MORE EXPENSIVE IT'LL BE. AND IN TRYING TO MAINTAIN AND CONTROL THE COST OF THIS PRODUCT, WE HAVE TO REMOVE FEATURES, WE HAVE TO REMOVE COLORS. SO WE, YES, SIR, WE ONLY HAVE THE PRODUCT IN THESE THREE COLORS, BLACK, BROWN, AND WHITE. UM, I DON'T RECOMMEND PAINTING BECAUSE THESE ARE FACTORY APPLIED, BAKED ON FINISHES. UM, AND A BAKED ON SYSTEM ACTUALLY IS A MORE DURABLE, UH, YOU KNOW, SYSTEM THAN AN, THAN AN APPLIED FINISH. THE OTHER IS THAT I BELIEVE IN ONE OF THE REPORTS, UM, UH, THAT WAS NOT LOOKING FAVORABLE TO METALLIC, ANODIZED, UH, UH, UH, SYSTEMS, UM, UH, WOULD WORK. WE REALLY DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE OF WHAT THE ORIGINAL COLORS, UM, OF THE WINDOWS ARE. BUT, UM, OUR SYSTEMS, LIKE AS I SAID, DO COME IN THREE COLORS. AND, UM, IF ANY OF THOSE THREE COLORS ARE ACCEPTABLE, UH, IT WOULD HELP MAINTAIN THE COST OF THE, OF THE ENTIRE, UM, WINDOW WALL. OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GROOVE? YES. SO, UM, THANK YOU. I'M ACTUALLY VERY FAMILIAR. MY BROTHER-IN-LAW LIVED THERE FOR A WHILE, SO, UM, I THINK I KNOW WHERE COMMISSIONER CARPENTER IS GOING. AND IF YOU GO TO SLIDE SEVEN, I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT FEATURE OF THE WINDOW THAT I'M NOT SURE THIS WINDOW MEETS IT, WHICH IS KIND OF THAT DEPTH RIGHT BETWEEN THE GLASS AND THE FRAME. AND, AND THAT'S WHAT WE SEE IN THOSE ELEMENT WINDOWS, RIGHT? AND I DON'T THINK THIS WINDOW IS DOING THAT, RIGHT, BECAUSE WHAT'S THE DEPTH HERE WITH THE GLASS AND THE, AND THE FRAME? THAT'S, UH, THE EXISTING WINDOW. OH, THAT, NOT ON THE EXISTING, BUT ON THIS NEW WINDOW, YOU OH, OKAY. ON OUR WINDOW, THE, UM, YEAH, THE FACE OF THAT, OF THAT SASH IS ACTUALLY ONE IN THREE QUARTERS. UM, NO, NO, NO. SO BETWEEN THE FACE OF THE FRAME AND THE GLASS FACE, THAT HORIZONTAL DIMENSION, OH, OH, OH, OH, OH, THAT'S, UH, OH, GOTCHA. THAT'S ABOUT THREE QUARTER, UH, THE, FROM THE FACE OF THE FRAME TO THE, TO THE FACE OF THE GLASS, YOU THINK IT'S THREE QUARTER INCH, IT LOOKS A LOT LESS. WELL, THE THING IS, I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE CHARACTER OF THIS TYPE, THESE WINDOWS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE SEE IN THOSE, I MEAN, I'VE COME FROM MEXICO. MM-HMM. THIS IS THE TYPE OF WINDOW THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET PRODUCED EVERYWHERE IN MEXICO. THERE'S LOTS OF APPLICANTS ACTUALLY, THAT GET THEM PRODUCED IN MEXICO AND, AND PUT IN, IN HISTORIC HOMES HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, BECAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE LUMP. SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE HEAT AND ALL THAT, I MEAN, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF THERE WAS AN OPTION TO GET THAT, UH, WINDOW THAT MR. CARPENTER COMMISSIONER CARPENTER WAS REFERRING TO, BECAUSE I DO FEEL THAT THAT WILL GIVE US THAT DEPTH BETTER. AND, AND TO, AND TO ENERGY. THOSE BEDROOMS ARE REALLY SMALL. SO RIGHT BEHIND THIS WINDOW, THERE'S ALA LOT OF MANY BEDROOMS, RIGHT? YES. AS I, I'VE BEEN INSIDE THEM. AND THEN YOU HAVE THE BIG, BIG LIVING ROOM RIGHT AFTER THE BEDROOMS, WHICH IS A BIG ROOM THAT'S OPEN WITH CEILING LIGHTS, SUN COMING IN. SO I DON'T FEEL LIKE THERE'S, I, I THINK THAT COMPARED TO WHAT'S CURRENT AND, AND EITHER E EITHER WINDOW YOU'LL PUT IN, YOU'LL GET A BETTER ENERGY SAVING. BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT'S, UH, UH, GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE, WHETHER WE GO WITH THE THERMAL, NON NON-CONDUCTIVE, UH, ALUMINUM WINDOW OR THE FIBERGLASS. I THINK WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THIS BUILDING HE MENTIONED IS THE ARCHITECT OURS. AND I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A NONPROFIT, I WANNA KEEP COST, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT JUST BASING A DECISION BASED ON ENERGY, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, HAVE WE REALLY REVIEWED EVERY SINGLE OPTION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE REFLECTING THOSE CHARACTERS THAT THE ARCHITECT WANTED BACK THEN ON THE WINDOWS. MM-HMM. . OKAY. COMMISSIONER SAVINO, UM, COMMISSIONER GROUP CHANNELED MY THOUGHTS. IT WAS ON THE, UM, PROPORTIONS AND THE SETBACK, AND ALSO THE RAILS AND THE STYLES RELATIVE TO EACH OTHER. AND, UH, SO I, I GUESS I WAS GOING TO EVEN ASK, UM, UH, THE PROFILE USED ON THE NEW MEXICO. WAS IT THE SPECIAL SHAPE, OR WAS IT THE BLOCK? THE , THE, OKAY. THE PROJECT THAT WAS DONE IN NEW MEXICO HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A, OF A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PROFILE BECAUSE THOSE WINDOW OPENINGS ARE MUCH SMALLER. UM, SINCE THEN, TO BE ABLE, UH, FOR PELLA TO ACHIEVE LARGER WINDOW SYSTEMS, THEY HAD TO BEEF UP THE PROFILE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THOSE HEIGHTS AND THOSE SPANS. UM, YES, YES, IT HAD, IT HAD TO BE. YES. YES, MA'AM. AND IT LOOKS, IT APPEARS THAT THE, THE GRILL, THE GRILLS ARE ALSO APPLIED. THE GRILLS ARE APPLIED TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE INSULATING VALUE OF THE ENTIRE WINDOW. UM, IF THEY WERE TO BE, UH, IF THEY WERE, IF THOSE LIGHTS WERE TO BE BROKEN UP, THEN NOT ONLY ARE YOU COMPROMISING [01:55:01] NOW THE INSULATING VALUE OF THE ENTIRE PRODUCT, BUT NOW YOU ALSO INTRODUCE THE ABILITY THAT THERE MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, MOISTURE LEAKING, YOU KNOW, GOING ON IN THOSE BUTTONS. SO NOWADAYS, UM, WINDOWS, USUALLY YOU'LL FIND THEM WITH APPLIED SYSTEMS TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE LOOK, UM, OF A, YOU KNOW, OF A, UH, UH, OF A HISTORIC, UM, UH, WINDOW, BUT WITH TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY, UM, THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. MR. CHAIR? UH, ONE MOMENT. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES? YEAH, JUST ONE ASPECT, UH, TO HIGHLIGHT THAT YOU MENTIONED IS SETS THE SOUND DEAFENING PROPERTIES. I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S KEY FOR THE COMMISSION TO UNDERSTAND THAT SILENCE IS PARAMOUNT FOR VETERANS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO UNWIND AND THEY'RE SITTING, THEY'RE TRYING TO SLEEP. I MEAN, IN ADDITION TO THE THERMAL, THERMAL PROPERTIES YOU MENTIONED, UH, THE SOUND DEAFENING PROPERTIES IS GONNA BE KEY, I THINK, TO WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. SO, UM, YES, SIR. IF I CAN JUST ADD TO THAT, UH, YOU ARE EXACTLY CORRECT. UM, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE NOW GOING TO AN INSULATED, UH, SYSTEM IS BECAUSE THERE ARE, UH, SOUND RESISTANT PROPERTIES THAT AN INSULATED, UH, WINDOW WILL OFFER THE INSULATED VALUE. AND THIS MAY IT A LITTLE TECHNICAL. UM, THE S T C ON THIS PRODUCT RIGHT NOW IS S T C OF 28. UM, WE CAN ACTUALLY PICK IT UP TO AN S T C OF 36, BUT THAT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF GLASS, UH, IN THE INTRODUCTION OF LAMINATED GLASS. SO WHEN YOU INTRODUCE THOSE TYPES OF GLAZING SYSTEMS, NOW YOU'RE RAISING THE, THE PRICE OF, OR THE COST OF THAT PRODUCT. SO WE NEEDED TO MAINTAIN A CERTAIN, UM, BUDGETED, UH, WINDOW SYSTEM. SO WE OFFERED, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR BASIC PRODUCT. SO YOU'RE GETTING AN S STC 28 WITH THAT WINDOW ALREADY, WHICH IS A VERY GOOD S T C RATING. AND THAT'S S T C FOR SOUND TRANSMISSION CLASSIFICATION. THANK YOU. I WANNA ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE INSTALLATION. MM-HMM. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE WINDOW CAN BE INSTALLED SO THAT THE OPENING IT CAN SO, SO THAT, SO THAT THEY CAN BE REMOVED, SAY, 25 YEARS FROM NOW? UH, YES. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE HAVE VARIOUS METHODS OF INSTALLING THE PRODUCT. THE ONE THING THAT I HAD ACTUALLY MENTIONED TO, UM, MR. UH, DICKERSON IS THAT, YOU KNOW, HOPING THAT THE PRODUCT CAN GET APPROVED. WE HAVE OUR OWN TEAM OF ENGINEERS AND ARCHITECTS AT CORPORATE LEVEL THAT WHAT THEY DO, THEY LOOK AT THE OPENINGS, THEY LOOK AT THE SPANS, THEY LOOK AT THE HEIGHTS, AND ALSO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS AS TO HOW THE INSTALLATION SHOULD GO TO MAINTAIN, UM, GOOD SEALS, GOOD SEALS TO ADDRESS WATER MANAGEMENT. BUT DO, DO YOU FEEL THAT THE, THAT, THAT THE SITUATION WOULD BE REVERSIBLE, SHOULD SAY, LET'S JUST SAY, LET'S JUST SAY 25 YEARS FROM NOW, THE GI FORM DISCOVERS A PRODUCT OF A CASEMENT WINDOW, JUST LIKE WHAT WE SEE THE PICTURE AND THEY COULD SAY, HEY, WE CAN REVERSE THIS NOW. YES. CAN IT BE, CAN THESE WINDOWS BE DESIGNED TO BE PLACED IN SO THAT THEY CAN BE REMOVED WITHOUT AFFECTING THE INTEGRITY OF THE OPENING? ONCE YOU INSTALL THE PRODUCT, YOU CAN EASILY REMOVE IT. JUST THE, JUST THE SAME. OKAY. WELL, UM, THEN, THEN I, I, I'D KIND OF JUST, UM, IMPLORE, UM, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO CONSIDER THE GI FORUM, UM, IS A VERY IMPORTANT ORGANIZATION THAT SERVES, UM, WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANNA SAY COULD POSSIBLY BE THE FORGOTTEN PEOPLE, RIGHT? UH, PEOPLE THAT, THAT GO AND SERVE THE COUNTRY, AND THEY GET SET IN SITUATIONS. AND THEN, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S ORGANIZATIONS LIKE HECTOR PIA AS GI FORUM THAT, THAT, UH, WAS CREATED TO TAKE CARE OF VETERANS WHERE NOBODY ELSE WOULD. MM-HMM. , ANOTHER IMPORTANT THING ABOUT THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THIS ENVIRONMENT, THAT EVERYBODY LIKES TO TALK ABOUT ADLY HEIRS. WELL, THERE'S A PERIOD RIGHT IN THE HISTORY OF THIS, THIS BUILDING SITTING IN THE WEST SIDE, SURROUNDED BY THE JAIL AND BY THINGS BEFORE HAVEN FOR HOPE. UH, NOBODY'S CARED ABOUT THIS ADLY AIRS BUILDING EXCEPT FOR THE GI FORUM. SO, THE GI FORUM IS RESPONSIBLE NOT ONLY FOR THE VETERANS, BUT RESPONSIBLE ALSO FOR, FOR BEING, UH, ONE OF THE, UM, THE KEY STAKEHOLDERS IN, IN AN AREA OF THE COMMUNITY THAT THE REST OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO HAS FORGOTTEN. RIGHT NOW, EVERYTHING'S HIP. AND, AND THE ONLY THING WE WANNA TALK ABOUT IS WHAT IS THE PRESERVATION INTEGRITY WITHOUT CONSIDERING THE INTEGRITY OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING BEHIND THESE WALLS. IF THE GI FORUM IS, IS BRINGING US PELLA, IMPELLA IS WILLING TO CERTIFY THAT THEY CAN CREATE A REVERSIBLE SITUATION, BUT SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF HEAT GAIN WITHIN THIS BUILDING IMMEDIATELY, IT'S NOT, UH, OUT OF, UM, OUR PRACTICE TO APPROVE A REVERSIBLE SITUATION THAT ENABLES THE GI FORUM TO DO WHAT, WHAT IT DOES LONG BEFORE ANYBODY'S CARED ABOUT THE SADLY AIRS BUILDING. IT'S NOT A FACTOR ANYMORE. SO CLEARLY ITS USE IS IN A, IN, IN, IN, IN THE VOCABULARY OF A DIFFERENT OCCUPANCY. AND, AND IN THAT, UH, THEY'RE PROVIDING A WINDOW WHERE THEY CAN, UH, MIMIC THE, THE, THE DIVISIONS, UM, UM, AND, UM, UH, STILL MAINTAIN THE ART [02:00:01] DECO, UH, UM, UM, UH, VANTAGE POINT. BUT, UM, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THAT IF IT CAN BE REVERSED AT A TIME WHEN SOMEONE WHO, YOU KNOW, WHO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT NECESSARILY, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT WINDOW IT IS, BUT WHO'S BEHIND IT, RIGHT? THAT WE CAN EMPOWER THE GI FORUM TO DO WHAT IT DOES, IT DOES BEST, WHAT IT'S, WHAT IT DOES FOR PEOPLE, UM, THAT THAT DOESN'T SEEM ANYBODY CARES ABOUT EXCEPT FOR THE GI FORUM. UH, SO WE SALUTE THE WORK THAT YOU DO, AND MOST DEFINITELY, PELLA IS A VERY GOOD PRODUCT, THANK YOU, WITHOUT A DOUBT. BUT KEY TO THE POINT. I THINK THAT IF, IF WE CAN GET SOME ASSURANCES THAT IT CAN BE REVERSED, UH, 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN, UM, UH, THE GI FORUM'S ABLE TO USE A, A METAL CASEMENT WINDOW THAT ABSOLUTELY MEETS THE, THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, WILL I ASK THE COMMISSION TO THANK YOU? UM, UH, PLEASE SEE IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE GI FORUM. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. SO I THINK I CAN, UH, ONE POSSIBLE OPTION HERE IS TO MAKE A MOTION FOR OR AGAINST THE, UH, PROPOSAL. ANOTHER ONE WOULD BE TO, UH, POSSIBLY HAVE A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE WITH THE OWNERS AND THEIR REPRESENTATIVES, AND DISCUSS THE, UM, WINDOW OPTIONS MORE THOROUGHLY, UH, SO WE COULD GET A, A BETTER HANDLE ON WHAT HAS BEEN RESEARCHED, UH, WHAT MAY STILL NEED SOME RESEARCH. UM, SO IF Y'ALL ARE AGREEABLE TO THAT, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF HAVING A, A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE WHERE WE COULD HAVE A MORE IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION. I, I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS THINK. UM, MR. CHAIR, I'M, I'M PRETTY, I'M PRETTY SET, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT THEY'RE OFFERING AND THE PURPOSE OF IT. I MEAN, I THINK, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL, EVERYONE HERE IS, IS WELL VERSED ON THE INTRICACIES WINDOW CONSTRUCTION AND WHAT, WHAT'S AVAILABLE AND WHAT'S NOT AVAILABLE. AND I THINK I'M PREPARED TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, ON IT. AND I, I MOVE THAT THE APPLICANT'S, UH, UH, REQUEST BE APPROVED AS, AS PRESENTED. UH, I WOULD ADD THAT IF THEY CAN INSET THE WINDOW AS MUCH AS THEY CAN TO MEET THE LOOK OF WHAT'S ALREADY ON THERE, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE A STIPULATION STAFF OR NOT, BUT WITHIN THE DESIGN LIMITATIONS THAT YOU HAVE THERE. UM, AND, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. I'LL SECOND IT. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND ANY DISCUSSION? NO, I, I'LL, I'LL AGREE TO THE MOTION. THIS IS WHY WE DO CASE BY CASE. I, I, I WOULD LIKE, JUST FOR FUTURE, LIKE, I, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU REALLY TO CONSIDER ANY OTHER OPTIONS. EVEN THE, THE, THE, THE WINDOW THAT SPECIFICALLY COMMISSIONER CARPENTER MENTIONED, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE. THERE WAS MANY VENDORS, UM, YOU BROUGHT HERE A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE SALESPERSON. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU GUYS ARE SPENDING THE MONEY YOU HAVE TO GET, YOU KNOW, IT'S A NONPROFIT. I'M SURE YOU HAVE TO GET BIDS FROM MANY, MANY COMPANIES. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT ENERGY IS PROBABLY LESS THAN A PRIORITY THAN SOUND AND QUALITY AND HOW IT'LL GONNA BE. YOU KNOW, WE ASK FOR, I JUST ASKED FOR YOU IN AS MUCH AS THE ARCHITECTURE ORIGINAL ARCHITECT TO BE PRESERVED OF THIS BUILDING. VERY IMPORTANT BUILDING, BEAUTIFUL BUILDING IN THE SAME TIME AS, YOU KNOW, IN GUIDELINES WITH WHAT YOU DO. YES. COMMISSIONER MR. CHAIRMAN? YES. COMMISSIONER F. UM, I JUST HAVE ONE COMMENT I, I REALLY FOR, FOR, I HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE PRODUCT HERE. I'M MAYBE, MAYBE IT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE HAVING A SITE D R C MEETING TO LOOK AT THE PROFILES AND THE CONDITIONS OF THE WINDOWS THERE FIRST. SO WHILE I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH THE MOTION AS MADE, UH, I'LL BE AGAINST THE MOTION TODAY AND IN FAVOR OF A, A FUTURE D R C SITE MEETING IN THE EVENT THAT IT FAILS. THANKS, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, I'M OF KIND OF THE SAME MIND. I, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THIS, THIS PRODUCT, PER SE. I THINK IT'S A, LIKE I SAID, IT'S A QUALITY PRODUCT. IT'S, IT'S SORT OF THAT MIDLINE APPROACH. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT OTHER OPTIONS WERE EXPLORED. AND, UM, THEY WERE, UM, YOU KNOW, SINCE, SINCE THIS WILL BE A PRETTY WHOLESALE REMOVAL OF A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL OF, OF THE BUILDING, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GIVING THAT PROPER THOUGHT. AND OF COURSE, I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE SUPPORTIVE OF OUR, OUR VETS AND, AND, UM, AND WE HAVE IN THIS, OF THE MISSION OF THE AMERICAN GI FORUM. UM, SO I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE TWO MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, UH, GOALS TO ACHIEVE HERE. SO I, I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION, UH, BUT I MAY DOWN THE LINE BE SUPPORTIVE OF, OF THIS PRODUCT. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE DISCUSSION, DIALOGUE WITH THIS. OKAY. THANK YOU. [02:05:01] MR. CHAIR. WE CAN AMEND A VOTE BEFORE IT GOES TO VOTE, CORRECT? YES. DO WE HAVE ANY, DO WE HAVE ANY PROPOSED AMENDMENTS? YES. THERE WAS A SECOND ON THE MOTION, RIGHT? YES. FROM MS. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES. SO YOU CAN'T AMEND THE VOTE RIGHT NOW. I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND THE VOTE. SORRY. THE MOTION. YOU MAY SUGGEST AN AMENDMENT. YEAH, I WOULD SUGGEST AN AMENDMENT IF COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ WOULD, UH, IT WAS COMMISSIONER MADE THE MOTION, OH, SORRY. IF YOU WOULD, UM, AMEND IT TO A D R C VISIT, WHICH IS NOT AT N L, IT'S JUST FOR THE DISCUSSION OF PRODUCT AVAILABILITY. UH, YEAH. BEFORE I DO THAT, UH, DO YOU REPRESENT THE, UM, YOU WERE NODDING ABOUT THE OPTIONS THAT YOU LOOKED AT, SO CAN YOU ANSWER SOME OF THAT? IS THAT IS, THAT'S BEEN A, THAT'S, THAT CAME UP BY ONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. CAN YOU ADDRESS WHAT YOU DID TO GET TO THIS WINDOW RIGHT HERE? YES, COMMISSIONER, UH, MY NAME IS PAUL AL. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID DO WITH THE JOB BID, UM, WITH THE QUOTES, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY. SO WE DID GET SEVERAL QUOTES AND WE LOOKED AT SEVERAL OPTIONS. OF COURSE, THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAYS, PUTTING PLEXIGLASS OR IN THE INSIDE OF IT TO SEAL, BLOCK THE NOISE AND LEAVE THE INTEGRITY ALONE. THE PROBLEM IS IT CREATES, UH, UH, THE, OUT THE LOOK OF WHAT IT WOULD BE ON THE OUTSIDE. SO WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE, THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS TO FIX IT CORRECTLY AND TRYING TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY. SO WE LOOKED AT SEVERAL DIFFERENT VENDORS. WE LOOKED AT SEVERAL DIFFERENT MATERIALS, AND ONE OF THE, WE DID LOOK AT, UH, METALS. AND METALS WAS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. THREE TIMES MORE THAN WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW. AND THIS, UM, SOLUTION IS ALREADY $18,000 OVER MY BUDGET. I'M HAVING TO MOVE THINGS AROUND TO MAKE IT FIT ON OUR BUDGET. BUT OTHER MATERIALS, IT'S, IT'S JUST NOT REALISTIC. THEORETICALLY, YES, I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, UH, LOOK TO IT, BUT FINANCIALLY I JUST CAN'T MAKE IT HAPPEN. AND I JUST, I WOULD HATE TO PUT PLEXIGLASS ON THE INSIDE TO KEEP THE, YOU KNOW, JUST TO KIND OF GET THAT, THAT SOUND BARRIER AND THE, UH, ENERGY EFFICIENCY. AND JUST ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, JUST TO KIND OF GIVE YOU AN IDEA, I'M SPENDING ANYWHERE FROM EIGHT TO $12,000 A MONTH ON ENERGY COSTS. SO ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN DOING WAS SLOWLY REPLACING THE AIR CONDITIONS, REPLACING TO, UH, I DID GET THE GRANT THROUGH THE C P SS FOR THE LIGHTING FOR L E D LIGHTING. I'M TRYING TO REDUCE THAT COST 'CAUSE IT'S SO EXPENSIVE TO KEEP THIS PLACE HEATED AND COOL. THE YEAR BEFORE LAST, I HAD GAS LEAKS IN THAT FACILITY. I HAD ALL KINDS OF PROBLEMS THERE THAT I'M TRYING TO FIND A GOOD COST SOLUTION SO THAT WAY WE CAN AFFORD TO MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE I'M, I'M TRYING TO, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST ONE THING AFTER ANOTHER, AFTER ANOTHER. SO I'VE LOOKED AT ALL THE DIFFERENT COSTS AND THIS WAS OUR BEST SOLUTION ON THE LONG TERM. THANK YOU MR. AL. AND THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SARANT FOR BRINGING UP THAT QUESTION. THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT GONNA ANSWER. I WILL SUPPORT THE MOTION. SO I'M NOT ASKING FOR AMENDMENT. MY AMENDMENT STANDS, UH, MR. CHAIR. OKAY. UM, I'M SORRY, MY, MY MOTION STANDS. OKAY. MR. AL, ANOTHER QUESTION. UH, DURING YOUR RESEARCH, DID YOU INVESTIGATE, UH, 'CAUSE THERE'S SOME PHOTOS OF SOME RUSTED OUT WINDOWS, UH, REPAIRING THOSE AND THEN PUTTING THE, UM, THE INWOOD ON THE, OR THE END WINDOW ON THE INTERIOR FOR THE SOUND AND THE INSULATION? YES, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT, UH, SO JUST TO TAKE 'EM APART AND HAVING 'EM REFURB, UH, REFURBISHED, UH, IT WOULD NOT GIVE US THE SOUND NOR THE, UH, EFFICIENCY ON IT. SO WE WOULD PUT ADDITIONAL COSTS. SO WE WERE, LOOK, WE LOOKED AT, TO SEE IF WE COULD PUT REFU. 'CAUSE I LOOKED AT THAT AND JUST THE COST ALONE. AND THEN IT WOULD BE SINGLE PANE, SINGLE PANE GLASS. AND THEN IF I WERE TO PUT SOMETHING BEHIND IT, IF SOMEONE THREW ANOTHER BRICK AGAIN OR, 'CAUSE I'M CONSTANTLY HAVING TO REPLACE THESE WINDOWS. UH, WE'VE HAD GUNSHOTS. THE, UM, WE HAD A GUNFIRE, UH, UH, A SHOOTING JUST THE OTHER DAY AT, EVEN FOR HOPE, WHICH IS NEXT DOOR. OUR WINDOWS HAVE, UH, BULLET HOLES IN THEM. YOU KNOW, I'M HAVING LIKE, OKAY, WHAT AM I GONNA DO? WHAT'S A COST EFFECTIVE WAY? WHAT'S THE SAFETY OF OUR, OUR CLIENTS AND OUR RESIDENTS? AND THAT'S WHY I LOOKED AT A LOT OF THOSE SOLUTIONS AND IT JUST WASN'T VERY COST EFFECTIVE BECAUSE I, YES, I COULD REDO IT, BUT THEN I STILL HAVE THESE OTHER BARRIERS THAT I HAD IN THAT SITUATION. ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES IS THE REPLACING OF THE WINDOWS. 'CAUSE IT'S NOT, IF WE'RE GONNA REPLACE 'EM, IT'S WHEN WE REPLACE 'EM BECAUSE THEY GET BROKEN REGULARLY BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC THAT GOES THROUGH THERE. SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE WINDOWS THAT WE REPLACE ARE REPLACEABLE, NOT SOMETHING THAT LOOKS GOOD, BUT WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH IN THE FUTURE. YOU SEE, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ISSUE. IT NEEDS TO BE, IT NEEDS TO BE A FUNCTIONAL DESIGN. AND MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT, THAT SHOULD BE SHARED WITH THE COMMISSION IS, LOOK, WE LOOK AT SAN ANTONIO IN THE CONTEXT OF NOW, [02:10:01] RIGHT? BUT THE GI FORUM HAS BEEN THERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME. AND AS EMBARRASSING AS IT MAY, MAY SOUND, BECAUSE IT'S THE GI FORUM, THEY'RE NOT WHERE THEY ARE SIMPLY BECAUSE THAT WAS THE RIGHT PLACE TO BE. THEY'RE THERE BECAUSE AFFORDABILITY PUSHED A LOT OF NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS THAT SERVED PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY, IN THE POOREST NEIGHBORHOODS OF OUR CITY. THE GI FORUM IS THERE AND HAS BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE OF AFFORDABILITY. SO AS THE EXPECTATION RISES THAT THINGS ARE BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER, THERE ARE, UH, PARTNERS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT ARE SIMPLY NOT DOING BETTER. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER MENTIONED, UH, HAVEN FOR HOPE. THERE'S A REASON WHY HAVEN FOR HOPE IS LOCATED WHERE IT IS NICELY FUNDED AND THERE IN THE COMMUNITY AS A NEW ELEMENT SERVING THE COMMUNITY. BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE PIONEERS, THEY'VE HAD TO SERVE FROM THE, FROM, FROM THE PLACES IN OUR CITY THAT PEOPLE JUST DON'T GO. THERE'S A REASON WHY THE JAIL IS DOWN THE STREET FROM THE GI FORUM THERE. SO I'M SURE THAT AFFORDABILITY IS STILL AN ISSUE. THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE COMMISSION TO REALLY CONSIDER THAT REVERSIBILITY, RIGHT? UH, OF, OF A, OF A CHANGE IS A VERY IMPORTANT THING TO US BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT AT SOME POINT LATER ON DOWN THE LINE, SOMEONE CAN PROBABLY ADAPT WHAT IS PROBABLY A STILL LINTEL ALL THE WAY ALONG THE HIGH END OF THAT, OF THOSE SPANS. SO, SO THERE'S A GOOD, A GOOD CHANCE THAT THE CASE OPENING, UH, AT ANY GIVEN TIME, CAN RERE RECEIVE, UH, A METAL CASEMENT WINDOW? SHOULD THAT TIME, UH, HAPPEN? BUT AT THIS POINT, IF THEY'RE ABLE TO TAKE IT OUT CLEANLY, PUT THIS WINDOW IN THERE, THEN WE KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE THAT IT CAN COME OUT WHEN THE, WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT. UH, BUT FOR NOW, THAT, THAT, NOT THAT THEY'RE SERVING VETERANS TODAY, BUT THEY'VE BEEN SERVING THEM THERE. AND I THINK THIS SPEAKS TO THE NEED FOR US TO DO EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN TO ENABLE THE VETS TO HAVE THE ABSOLUTE BEST ENVIRONMENT THAT THEY CAN GET. AND AT THIS POINT, IT SEEMS THAT, THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT A WINDOW, REALLY. THIS IS ABOUT THE VETERANS INSIDE AND GETTING THEM AS FAR AS WE CAN GET THEM. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SAVINO? YES. JUST ONE LAST QUICK COMMENT. SHOULD THIS MOTION PASS AND YOU'RE FREE TO REPLACE THE WINDOWS? I DO HAVE A RECOMMENDATION. I DON'T KNOW IF IT NEEDS TO BE A STIPULATION THAT THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS AS DESIGNED, INSPECTED BY LEY AIRS REMAIN ON SITE FOR THAT TIME THAT THEY COULD BE REUSED AND TO SECURE THEM SAFELY AWAY FROM MOISTURE. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. SO I, I I WILL AMEND, I'LL AMEND THAT. MY AMENDMENT WOULD BE THAT YOU DO KEEP THE, THE, UH, THE OLD WINDOWS ON SITE, PRESERVE 'EM AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, UM, AND, AND THEN INSTALL THE WINDOWS IN SUCH A WAY THAT SHOULD TECHNOLOGY ADVANCE TO THE POINT WHERE WE CAN USE METAL WINDOWS AGAIN, OR ALUMINUM WINDOWS OR METAL WINDOWS RATHER, UH, THAT, THAT WE'RE ABLE TO, TO DO THAT. YOU'RE ABLE TO DO THAT. WE CAN STORE THOSE WINDOWS IN THE FACILITY. WE HAVE A BASEMENT. WE CAN TAKE CARE OF THAT. SO DOES THE SECOND CONCUR? YES. YES. SECOND CONCURS. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? UH, SECOND CONCURS IS RELATED TO THE FRAME, NOT THE GLASS ITSELF. CORRECT. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. UH, GIBBS. AYE. FETZER? YES. WASHINGTON CARRIES. AGENDA ITEM 20. AGENDA ITEM 20 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 2 71 19 33 WEST MULBERRY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE 10 ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS WITH FINAL WINDOWS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH F IF THE H D R C IS COMPELLED TO APPROVE WINDOW REPLACEMENT. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS FULLY WOOD WINDOWS THAT MEET STAFF STANDARD WINDOW STIPULATIONS AND SUBMITS UPDATED SPECIFICATIONS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. AND AS A CASE COMMENT, THIS, UH, REQUESTED TO COME DID COME TO US AS A COMPLIANCE CASE, AND SEVEN OF THE 10 ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH VINYL WINDOWS. UM, THERE ARE STILL THREE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS INTACT ON THE WEST ELEVATION AT THE PROPERTY LINE, AND THE APPLICANT REPRESENTS THE CONTRACTOR. UM, ROGER HENNEKE [02:15:01] IS WITH US VIRTUALLY. ROGER, ARE YOU THERE? YES, I'M HERE. GREAT. AND ROGER, YOU'RE WELCOME TO INTRODUCE YOUR REQUEST AT THIS TIME. UH, WE'RE JUST, WE ARE, HONESTLY, WE'RE REQUESTING THAT WE CAN, UH, COMPLETE THE JOB, UH, WITH WAY INSTALLING THE VINYL WINDOWS THAT ARE THE, THE REMAINING THREE THAT ARE ON THAT. I APOLOGIZE, I'M NOT, THIS IS MY FIRST TIME DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SO THESE WERE REPLACED, THESE WERE WOOD WINDOWS THAT WERE REPLACED WITH VINYL WITHOUT CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR PERMIT, CORRECT? UH, YES SIR. SO WHAT, UH, UNFORTUNATELY WHAT HAD HAPPENED IS IT WAS AN OVERSIGHT, UM, BY SOMEONE IN OUR PERMITTING OFFICE, WHICH THEY'RE, UH, NO LONGER WITH, UM, WITH THE COMPANY. UH, THEY, THEY DID FAILED TO PULL A PERMIT AND FAILED TO NOTIFY US THAT WE WERE WITHIN A, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO WE WERE, WE WERE UNAWARE AT THE TIME WE PUT IT IN. AND I, I'M AWARE THAT IGNORANCE IS NOT A , NOT AN EXCUSE. OKAY. AND THE, AND THE HOUSE DID HAVE WOOD WINDOWS, CORRECT? YES, SIR. ARE THEY STILL ON SITE OR, UH, NOT, NOT TO MY, NO, NOT THE, NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. THE ONES THAT ARE, UH, THAT WERE REMOVED, NO, SIR. OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GRUBE, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU. UM, SO YOU'RE NOT REPRESENTING THE O WELL, YOU'RE REPRESENTING THE OWNERS, BUT THE OWNERS, HAVE THEY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT, UM, DO THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WERE IN A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD? IT SEEMS LIKE THEY, SO WE, WERE WE AT POINT OF SALE? WE WERE NEVER INFORMED. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THAT'S THE INFORMATION THAT I'VE RECEIVED FROM OUR SALESPERSON. UM, THE, THE, THE HOMEOWNER IS STATING THAT HE DID LET HIM KNOW IT'S, WE'RE IN A, HE SAID, SHE SAID SITUATION THERE. UM, I'M NOT, NOT REALLY SURE WHERE TO GO FROM THAT, BUT AS FAR AS I KNOW, WE WERE NOT INFORMED. AND, AND, AND, AND I SEE RIGHT NOW, UH, I'M LOOKING AT LIKE SLIDE EIGHT, SEVEN, AND EIGHT, UH, WHERE LOOKING AT THE WINDOWS THAT YOU WANT TO REPLACE, AND YOU HAVE A PICTURE THAT SAYS YOU'RE NOT REPLACING ANY ON THE FRONT, BUT I THINK WINDOW NINE, IF YOU GO ONE SLIDE UP, RACHEL. SO THAT'S THE PICTURE OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. AND THEN, UH, ONE SLIDE UP. SORRY. SEVEN, YOU HAVE ALL THE PICTURES, UH, ALL THE NUMBERS. SO NUMBER NINE IS ONE OF THE PICTURES THAT IS VISIBLE FROM THE FRONT. WHICH OF THESE 10 WINDOWS HAVE BEEN REPLACED? OR WHICH, WHICH ARE THE THREE THAT HAVEN'T BEEN THE THREE ON THE, SO 1, 2, 3, I I BELIEVE SO. WE SHOULD, THERE SHOULD BE A PICTURE. IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE LAID EYES ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT. MY, UH, MY FIELD SUPERVISOR WENT, HAD IT, BUT THERE SHOULD BE A, A PICTURE WHICH ONES WE ARE NOT. AND THEN I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAME UP. DID YOU COME UP WITH A VINYL WINDOW THAT HAD EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE AS THE WOOD WINDOW AND, AND EXACTLY THE SAME? UM, DOES IT MIMIC THE WOOD WINDOWS IN SIZE AND STYLE AND ALL THAT? NO. UH, NO. WE, UH, UH, WHAT WAS, AGAIN, WE, WE WEREN'T, WE WEREN'T AWARE THAT WE WERE WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO WE DIDN'T TAKE ANY OF THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. GENERALLY WHEN WE DO A WINDOW JOB, YOU KNOW, WE PRESENT A SALE OF, OF THE PARTICULAR OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE. CUSTOMER PICKS THE ONES THAT THEY LIKE, AND THEN WE GO ABOUT OUR DAY MEASURE. WE MEASURE FOR THE OPENING TO GET IT AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO NOT HAVE TO ALTER ANYTHING BECAUSE WE DON'T WANNA ALTER FRAMING OR ANYTHING ON THE EXTERIOR IF WE DON'T HAVE TO IN ANY CAPACITY. UM, SO, UH, BUT WE, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO, WOULD TRY AND GET THEM TO BE, UH, SIMILAR TO THE WOOD WINDOWS. 'CAUSE WE WEREN'T AWARE THAT WE HAD TO AT THE TIME. SO YOU DIDN'T ALTER ANYTHING? UH, WE GENERAL, WE GENERALLY DON'T KNOW, LIKE AS FAR, I MEAN, WE, WE DO OUR ABSOLUTE BEST TO, WHEN WE REMOVE WINDOWS TO ACTUALLY PUT 'EM WINDOW THAT GOES BACK JUST THE SAME. WE DON'T CHANGE SIZE, WE DON'T, WE DON'T ATTEMPT TO CHANGE SIZE. I, I'LL BE HAPPY TO HEAR FROM MY OTHER COMMISSIONERS, BUT TO ME, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME. I MEAN, MAYBE EVEN A SIDE VISIT, I DON'T KNOW. BUT I THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN DONE A LOT OF CHANGES TO LIKE, EITHER LIKE, AS AN INSERT OR SOMETHING. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GONNA KEEP WATER PENETRATING OR HOW IT'S GONNA BE DONE. UM, HAVE YOU EVEN TALKED TO THE OWNERS ABOUT, UM, ONE OF THE OUTCOMES OF THIS HEARING MIGHT BE THAT YOU HAVE TO REVERT TO WOOD WINDOWS? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT? I, I BELIEVE THEY'RE AWARE THEY WERE INCLUDED IN THE EMAIL CHAIN. I HAVEN'T DISCUSSED IT WITH THEM PERSONALLY. NO. I, I, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE, AGAIN, THIS PROCESS IS ALL NEWER TO ME. UM, THEY, THEY KNOW THAT THERE'S A HEARING. I BELIEVE THAT THEY DID NOT WANNA BE INVOLVED. AND STAFF CAN ADD, UH, WE CONDUCTED A SITE VISIT WITH THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND SO THEY ARE AWARE OF THE POSSIBLE OUTCOMES OF THE CASE. UM, THEY FEEL THAT THE CONTRACTOR MADE THE MISTAKE IN THIS SITUATION AND THEY'RE RATHER EMOTIONAL ABOUT IT. SO THEY DIDN'T WANNA GET EMOTIONAL DURING THE HEARING, UM, TODAY. UM, BUT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT WITH THE CONTRACTOR AND THEY WOULD LIKE THE CONTRACTOR TAKE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE MISTAKE BEFORE THEY CONSIDER THEIR NEXT STEPS. [02:20:03] MS. CHAIRMAN? YES. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. UM, QUICK QUESTION FOR RACHEL. IN YOUR SITE VISIT AND YOUR REVIEW OF THE THREE REMAINING, UH, WOOD WINDOWS THERE, HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THEIR CONDITION? UH, YES. THE WINDOWS ARE IN REPAIRABLE CONDITION. UM, YOU'LL SEE ON THE SCREEN NOW THERE IS A WINDOW THAT HAS BROKEN GLASS HERE. UM, OTHER PHOTOS WILL SHOW THAT THERE ARE A BROKEN ROPES, BUT OTHERWISE THERE'S NO, UM, GREAT DETERIORATION OF THE WOOD SASHES. IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE WINDOWS WERE REPLACED AND, UH, THEY PRIORITIZED THE ONES THAT WERE MOST DETERIORATED FIRST. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T KNOW THE CONDITION OF THE SEVEN WINDOWS THAT WERE REPLACED, BUT THE THREE REMAINING ARE REPAIRABLE. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I'M LEANING TOWARDS, UM, APPROVING WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU, IF YOU WOULD SUPPORT THAT. UM, I WOULD, I, I THINK THERE IS NOT, NOT A STRONG REASON FOR ME TO, TO GO AGAINST STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ON THIS. SO I, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF STAFF CERTAIN STIPULATIONS. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. FISH. AYE. OH, AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY, THIS IS NOT APPROVING THE WINDOW ATION. IT'S, UH, UH, FOLLOWING STAFF RECOMMENDATION, CORRECT? CORRECT. THAT'S THE MOTION. AYE. SO FISH, AYE. SABINA AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. MOOKA AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. I'M SORRY. WE DID HAVE A VOICEMAIL. OH, MY APOLOGIES. SHOULD WE PLAY THAT NOW? UH, YES. LET'S PUT IT INTO THE RECORD. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 20 H D R C CASE 2 0 2 2 2 7 1 AT 1933 WEST MULBERRY. MY NAME IS ROBIN FOSTER, MEMBER OF THE MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, M P N A, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. PO BOX 1 0 0 3 1 5 SAN ANTONIO 7 8 2 0 1. OFFERING COMMENTS ON BEHALF OF DREA GARZA, PRESIDENT OF M P N A AND THE M P N A BOARD OF DIRECTORS, WE APPRECIATE HOMEOWNERS WHO INVEST IN THEIR HISTORIC HOMES. WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT H D R C SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS CASE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH F TO NOT ALLOW APPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED. WOOD WINDOWS ARE CHARACTER DEFINING ELEMENTS FOR THE HISTORIC HOMES WITHIN THE MONTICELLO PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE NOTE THAT THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT BY THE APPLICANT AT 1933 WEST MULBERRY WAS CONDUCTED WITHOUT O H P APPROVAL, NOR WAS A CITY OF SAN ANTONIO PERMIT PULLED FOR THEIR INSTALLATION. IN CONTRAST, WE REFERENCED 3 0 2 FUR DRIVE, WHICH SOUGHT TO REPLACE ALL THEIR WOOD WINDOWS WITH VINYL. HOWEVER, THEY RECONSIDERED WITHDREW THEIR APPLICATION FROM H D R C AND RESTORED OVER 20 WOOD WINDOWS ON THE PROPERTY. THANK YOU FOR RECEIVING OUR COMMENTS. OKAY, LET'S START OVER. YES, START OVER THE, THE, UH, ROLL CALL. OKAY. AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. BAZOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ITEM 21, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 21 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 1 59 2 22 WIX. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE DEMOLISH A NON-ORIGINAL TWO STORY REAR EDITION. TWO, CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY REAR EDITION. MM-HMM. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL [02:25:01] APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH L STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION. H D R C. NUMBER ONE, THAT THE REAR ADDITION BE DECONSTRUCTED VERSUS MECHANICALLY DEMOLISHED. THE APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A COMPREHENSIVE SALVAGE AND REUSE PLAN TO STAFF PRIOR TO FINAL APPROVAL AND A PARTIAL DEMOLITION PERMIT BEING ISSUED. TWO, THAT THE ADDITION BE SET BACK, THE ADDITION BE SET BACK FURTHER FROM THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND INCORPORATE A CLEAR TRANSITION FROM THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE SUCH AS A CONNECTOR ELEMENT, A STEPPED ROOF LINE THAT TRANSITIONS FROM ONE TO TWO STORIES OR ANOTHER METHOD OF TRANSITION THAT MINIMIZES THE ADDITION'S VISUAL AND STRUCTURAL IMPACT IS NOTED IN FINDINGS. F I AND J. A ROOF PLAN SHOULD BE SUBMITTED THAT CLEARLY INDICATES HOW THE NEW ADDITION WILL AFFECT THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE'S EXISTING ROOF LINE THREE, THAT THE PROPOSED ADDITIONS ROOF LINE BE MODIFIED TO REDUCE THE VISUAL IMPACT ON THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AS NOTED IN FINDINGS F I AND J. AND FINALLY, NUMBER FOUR, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A WINDOW SPECIFICATION TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL WINDOW SHOULD COMPLY WITH STAFF STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS. UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, JASON MORIN AND ERIC BREED BREED BREE IS HERE. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, GOOD EVENING. PERMISSION. THANK YOU FOR LETTING US, UH, PRESENT TO YOU, UH, ONCE AGAIN AT, UH, FOR 2, 2, 2 WEEKS. UM, UH, WE'VE MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS. WE'VE BEEN, UH, HERE, UH, SEVERAL TIMES NOW AND WE'VE MADE, UH, SOME ADJUSTMENTS THAT I THINK, UM, UH, ARE ARE HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. UM, IF WE CAN GO TO THE, UM, UPDATED FLOOR PLANS. UM, SO ADDRESSING THE, THE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS AND, AND STIPULATIONS THE REAR ADDITION BE DECONSTRUCTED VERSUS MECHANICALLY DEMOLISHED. WE ARE, UH, WE ARE GOING TO DECONSTRUCT THE, UM, THIS IS, THIS IS, THERE'S NEWER ONES. ACTUALLY, THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO CLARIFY TO THE COMMISSIONERS. UM, SO THESE DOCUMENTS WERE SUBMITTED ON, UH, MAY 4TH. UM, SO THESE ARE THE DOCUMENTS THAT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ARE BASED ON. UM, JASON DID SUBMIT NEW DOCUMENTS, UM, AFTER THE D R C THAT THEY HAD LAST WEEK. UM, SO I CAN GO TO THOSE. I THINK THOSE ARE IN OUR PROPERTIES FOLDER. THANK YOU. THIS IS REVISED DOCUMENT THAT YES. THAT THAT IS CORRECT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ON THE SCREEN NOW IS THE MOST RECENTLY SUBMITTED DOCUMENT. UM, THIS WAS NOT PART OF STAFF'S CURRENT REVIEW. HANNAH, WHEN DID WE GET THESE? UH, THESE WERE SUBMITTED, UM, ON THE 10TH, I BELIEVE. SO, UM, STARTING AT THE TOP, THE REAR ADDITION BE. SO ONE OF THE CONCERNS, COUPLE OF THE CONCERNS, UM, AND, AND, AND THE EVOLUTION OF THIS WAS THAT THE, UM, UH, ADDITION ON THE BACK, UH, WAS, WAS OVERLAPPING. THAT'S OKAY. UM, UH, OUR FIR OUR ORIGINAL DESIGN WAS, WAS SUCH AT THE, THE REAR ADDITION WAS, WAS KIND OF OVERLAPPING THE EXISTING FRONT STRUCTURE. SO ONE OF THE, UH, REQUESTS WAS THAT WE DETACH IT AND SHOW CLEAR SEPARATION, UM, FROM THE, UH, UH, NEW ADDITION VERSUS THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC STRUCTURE. SO WE WENT AHEAD AND, AND PULLED THE NEW ADDITION, UM, UM, OFF OF THE, UH, EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, ANOTHER, UH, UH, CONCERN WAS THE, UM, UH, THE, THE STYLE IN WHICH THE, WE WERE, THAT WE WERE DESIGNING THE NEW ADDITION. SO WHAT WE'VE DONE WAS, WAS KIND OF S S AFTER A COUPLE OF DRCS, UM, UH, MS. SAVINO MADE A, A REALLY GREAT SUGGESTION IN THAT WE, WE STICK TO THE FORMS OF THE KIND OF FOLK VICTORIAN, UH, ARCHITECTURE STYLE. SO WE DETACHED THE STRUCTURE. UM, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP INFORMED A LITTLE BIT MORE IN LINE WITH THE FOLK VICTORIAN, UM, UH, SHAPE AND, AND, AND LINES, [02:30:01] UH, OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. UM, AND THEN, UM, WE SET THIS, THE STRUCTURE BACK. OH, AND THEN THE HEIGHT WAS, WAS ANOTHER, UH, UH, CONCERN. SO WE DETACHED IT. ALTHOUGH WE ARE, WE ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE HIGHER THAN THE, OR WE'RE HIGHER THAN THE, THE, THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC STRUCTURE. WE FEEL THAT, UM, WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE STANDING IN THE STREET, UH, WE DID A LINE OF SITE STUDY, SO WE'RE PRETTY WELL BELOW. UM, UH, THE, THE, UM, FIRST FLOOR, THE, THE STREET SLOPES DOWN, THE SIDEWALK COMES DOWN. SO WHEN YOU'RE STANDING BACK AT THE STREET LEVEL, YOU, YOU REALLY WON'T SEE A WHOLE LOT, UM, OF THAT SECOND STORY. UM, ADDITION, UM, WE ARE AGREEING TO, TO STAFF'S, UH, STIPULATIONS ON THE WINDOWS AND, AND WE'VE MADE SOME ADJUSTMENTS TO THE WINDOWS THAT WE FEEL ARE, UH, MORE IN LINE WITH THE, UH, EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE AS WELL. SO, SO OUR INTENTION REMAINS TO RESTORE ALL OF THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL SIZES. AND THEN, UH, FOR THE NEW PART TO BASICALLY INCORPORATE THOSE SAME PROPORTIONS ON THE LOWER SIDE AND USE A, A LOWER WINDOW ON THE TOP, UH, TO KIND OF ESTABLISH HIERARCHY FROM FIRST TO SECOND FLOOR AND WHETHER THE GABLE WINDOWS OR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S STILL A POINT OF DISCUSSION SINCE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS ORIGINAL AND NOT JUST TO STAFF, WHY ARE THE WINDOWS NOT PART OF THE APPLICATION? THEY WERE INITIALLY RIGHT. WE'VE ALWAYS HAD THEM PART OF A DISCUSSION. LET ME GO BACK TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS REAL QUICK. ACTUALLY, YOU GOTTA LOOK AT ITEM ONE AND TWO, LIKE THE REQUEST AND THE RECOMMENDATION. MR. CHAIR, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE VOTE ON WHAT'S REQUESTED. THAT'S THE QUESTION. SO ON THE TOP REQUEST, IT SHOULD ADD THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO REPLACE WINDOWS BECAUSE WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN DISCUSSING, BUT I DON'T SEE IT HERE. IT JUST SAYS, UH, ASKING FOR A CERTIFICATE OF PERMANENCE FOR APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH AND CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY. SO THIS IS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE ADDITION. WHEN ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE WINDOWS AND THE FRONT AND ALL THAT? WE ALWAYS, I MEAN, I'M, I'M NOT SAYING I, AND THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE DONE, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, WELL, MAYBE HANNAH OR THE APPLICANT CAN CLARIFY LIKE WHAT IS REQUESTED FOR ALTERATIONS TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. 'CAUSE THE RE THE WAY THAT HANNAH'S WRITTEN THIS IS THAT YOU'RE REQUESTING JUST THE ADDITION. IS THERE AN ADDITIONAL SCOPE THAT WE'RE MISSING? SO I, I THINK, UM, BACK WHEN THIS WAS INITIALLY SUBMITTED WITH STEPHANIE, THE, THERE WERE, UM, IN THE INITIAL PLANS, THERE WERE ANNOTATIONS THAT MODIFICATIONS WERE GOING TO BE MADE TO THE FENESTRATIONS, BUT THOSE WEREN'T FINALIZED AT THAT POINT. UM, UNLESS A FINALIZED FENESTRATION PLAN, UM, HAS BEEN PROVIDED. UM, CURRENTLY IT'S JUST FOR THE ADDITIONS, THE ADDITIONS WINDOWS. BUT YOU HAVE IT IN THE FINDINGS. YEAH. IN THE FINDINGS. YOU HAVE THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING. SO CAN WE HEAR IN THIS HEARING APPROVE THAT SO THE APPLICANT CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AS WELL? NO, THAT'S NOT PART OF THE REQUEST EXACTLY. SO WE CAN'T VOTE, WE CAN'T EVEN GO FORWARD WITH THAT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT THE ADDITION, BUT EVEN THE FINDINGS ARE MIS OR MENTIONING, WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE CONFUSION. YOU CAN IGNORE THAT FINDING. I ONLY, UH, I ONLY SEE FINDING F FOR FENESTRATION, WHICH IS FOR OPENINGS IN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION. SO, SO AT THE, THE ENTIRE EXISTING, UM, HISTORIC STRUCTURE, WE'RE GOING TO REPLACE THE WINDOWS. UM, WITH, THERE WERE, THE PREVIOUS OWNER REPLACED THE WINDOWS, BUT THEY WEREN'T THE PROPER SIZE. THEY, THEY WERE TOO LOW. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE PULLING OUT THE WORK THAT WAS RECENTLY DONE BY THE PREVIOUS OWNER AND GOING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL WINDOW SIZE OF THE, THE ORIGINAL HISTORIC STRUCTURE IN, UH, COREY IN THAT, THAT'S ADMINISTRATIVE, RIGHT? [02:35:03] IT'S A SEPARATE CONVERSATION BECAUSE EVERY, ALL THAT WAS POSTED FOR THIS ITEM IS DEMOLITION OF THE REAR ACCESSORY IN THE ADDITION. NO, NO, NO. I UNDERSTAND. BUT IF A, IF AN, IF A PERSON WENT TO O H P FOR A PERMIT, Y'ALL WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT, UM, ONE FOR ONE REPLACEMENT IN KIND AS ADMINISTRATIVE, RIGHT? IT DEPENDS ON THE CONDITION, RIGHT? SO WE'D HAVE TO LOOK. SO IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO BE HERE. NOT ALWAYS, NO, THAT'S MY POINT. WELL, BASED ON THE SITE VISIT I'VE BEEN, I KNOW THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD CONFRONT US. AND THEN EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS ARE NOT PART OF THIS TOO. AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT STEERING MODIFICATION THAT YOU'RE GONNA DO, RIGHT? MM-HMM. , RIGHT? SO I GUESS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK WITH THOSE ITEMS COME BACK. IT SOUNDS LIKE THE APPLICATION MAY BE, UM, LACKING IN INFORMATION AND REQUEST AND, UM, OR WHAT WAS POSTED ON THE AGENDA, UNLESS WE CAN MAKE A MOTION INCLUDING IT, BUT IT DOES, WE CAN'T. RIGHT. SO WHAT WAS POSTED AND WHAT YOU CAN TAKE ACTION ON TODAY IS DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING EDITION AND CONSTRUCTION OR DESIGN APPROVAL FOR THE NEW EDITION. THERE ARE UPDATED PLANS THAT WE APPARENTLY RECEIVED LAST WEEK AND DID NOT UPDATE THE RECOMMENDATION, BUT THEY APPEAR TO MEET STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEY'RE PRESENTED TO YOU TODAY. AND PART OF THOSE NEW PLANS MAY BE ITEMS THAT COULD BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY. SO , I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS PROPOSED FOR, FOR THE, I'M SORRY, I'M NOT, UM, AND, AND MAYBE THAT GOT LOST. SO I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN, THIS IS OUR SIX SIX TO EIGHT H D R C MEETING AND OUR SIX, WE HAVE THREE DRCS. AND SO I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN, WE CAN RUN THROUGH ITEM BY ITEM AND CLARIFY ANYTHING INSTEAD OF COMING BACK IF POSSIBLE TO TRY NOT TO COME BACK AGAIN. ALL WE CAN TAKE ACTION ON TODAY IS THE ADDITION. I, I'M APOLO, I'M APOLOGIZING RIGHT NOW FOR ANY MISCOMMUNICATION BETWEEN YOU AND THE CASE MANAGER ABOUT WHAT WAS INTENDED TO BE IN THE SCOPE FOR ALTERATIONS TO THE EXISTING HOUSE. I CAN WE, EVEN IF THOSE NOTES AND THAT INFORMATION APPEARS ON THE NEW SET OF DRAWINGS IN THE OTHER DRAWINGS CONSISTENTLY, WE CAN WE NOT ADDRESS THAT? ALMA, I'LL DEFER TO YOU. OUR CAPTION READS PARTIAL DEMOLITION CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO-STORY REAR EDITION AND EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS. WHAT IS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED IN THE DETAIL IS JUST THE TWO THINGS. DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING ADDITION AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE REAR ADDITION DOES NOT MENTION EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS. AND STAFF HAS NOT MADE A RECOMMENDATION. AND THIS IS FINAL, THIS IS NOT CONCEPTUAL. THE FINDINGS MENTIONED CONCEPTUAL, RIGHT. SO CAN IMPLIED TASKS BE CONSIDERED UNDER THAT IN OUR DISCUSSION? AS, AS MON AS, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER SAVINO JUST SAID. I MEAN THAT'S A BROAD STATEMENT THERE AND THERE'S A LOT OF IMPLIED TASKS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT. SO AS I SAID BEFORE, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS HAVE BEEN ONLY FOR THE CASE FILE THAT YOU ALL HAVE ACCESS TO. UM, THESE ARE NEW UPDATED DOCUMENTS, UM, THAT I BELIEVE, UH, IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, ARE JUST BEING DISCUSSED. UM, FOR FUTURE REFERENCE, UM, I, I BELIEVE THAT THE WINDOWS ARE MORE OF A NEW REQUEST THAT ARE NOT CURRENTLY PART OF THE ORIGINAL REQUEST. AND THEN WE EVEN DISCUSSED IT WHEN I WENT TO THE FIRST SITE VISIT. YEAH, RIGHT. THAT WAS THE FIRST ONE TO GO TO A SITE VISIT. AND THEN I RECOMMENDED EVERYBODY ELSE AFTER THE SECOND TIME THEY CAME TO A HEARING. AND I'VE ALSO TOLD THEM MANY TIMES, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY GOES TO SEE YOUR PROPERTY SO THAT WHEN YOU COME TO FINAL HEARING, YOU HAVE EVERYBODY'S POINT OF VIEW. WHY IS THIS SITE CONCEPTUAL ONE OR REQUESTING FINAL? CAN YOU CLARIFY IF IT'S CONCEPTUAL OR FINAL? SO THIS IS FOR FINAL APPROVAL FOR THE ADDITION. AND THEN FINDING SAYS CONCEPTUAL. SO I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WAS A CHANGE IN STAFF TAKING OVER THIS CASE, AND I AM, I AM, I HATE DOING THIS, BUT THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN REVIEWED A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAILED BECAUSE IT WAS A HANDS OFF, BUT THIS HANDS OFF WAS OVER TWO MONTHS AGO AND THESE APPLICANTS HAVE BEEN, I MEAN, SO UNDERSTANDING OF OUR PROCESS AND HAD EVERY INPUT FROM EVERYBODY. AND I KNOW IT'S A HARD CASE, SO AS MUCH AS WE CAN INCLUDE IN THIS MOTION TODAY SHOULD BE INCLUDED. SO WE, WE JUST, UH, HOW MANY DO YOU WANNA, MR. CHAIR, BASED ON HOW IT POSTED? DELIBERATION CAN BE TAKEN ON THE EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS, SO STAFF MIGHT NOT HAVE A SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION. YOU CAN STILL TAKE ACTION ON THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU HONOR. THANK YOU. IF WE CAN GET THE, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF WE CAN GET THE MOST UP-TO-DATE PLANS UP ON THE SCREEN AND IF THE APPLICANT CAN RUN THROUGH WHAT THE MODIFICATIONS ARE ON THE EXISTING HOUSE AND DESCRIBE HOW YOU'RE MEETING, UH, OR [02:40:01] ATTEMPTING TO MEET STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE ADDITION. ALRIGHT, WELL, SO LIKE I SAID, WE, WE HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK AT, OH, I'M SORRY. AND, UH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE PROPORTIONALITY OF THE, OF THE FOLK VICTORIAN ARCHITECTURE IS VERY IMPORTANT. SO WE WENT BACK AND, AND KIND OF SCRAPPED OUR, OUR FIRST TWO, UH, ITERATIONS AND CAME BACK WITH A KIND OF PROPORTIONATE STUDY, WHICH, UH, QUITE HONESTLY, I THINK WE, WE'VE CARRIED OVER. IT FITS WITH THE, UH, WITH THE FOLK VICTORIAN, UH, UH, AESTHETIC. UM, AND WE TO RESPOND TO THE SEPARATION OF THE TWO, I MEAN, WE ARE LIMITED WITH THE REAR SETBACK. SO WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS WE'VE INCREASED IT BY A FEW FEET, UM, UH, WHICH IS THAT SPACE OUT, THE DRAWINGS NOT UP, BUT UH, ON THE FLOOR PLAN IT CAN BE SEEN. UH, WE'VE KIND OF SEPARATED IT THEN THE CHALLENGE WE'RE FACING WAS WITH THE TRANSITION PIECE. UH, YOU KNOW, IF WE START GOING ON A VERTICAL TRANSITION PIECE, KIND OF FEEL THAT WE'RE ADDING TO THE MASS RATHER THAN TRYING TO BALANCE IT OUT. SO WE ARE TRYING TO TIE THAT IN WITH THE SAME, UH, STAFF PUT UP THE DRAWINGS THAT HE'S REFERRING TO, THE NEW UPDATED THAT HE SENT. THE LATEST FLOOR PLAN WILL WORK THIS FINE. ALRIGHT. SO, SO WE'RE BASICALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, THE DARK OUTLINE IS THE NEW ADDITION, NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, UH, THAT WE'VE KIND OF, LIKE I SAID, WE'VE WORKED THE PROPORTIONS TO WORK WITH THE EXISTING. UM, AND, AND TO INCREASE THAT SEPARATION, WE PUSHED THE NEW ELEMENT OUT ANOTHER COUPLE OF FEET. UM, AND THEN ONE OF THE POINTS, UH, FROM STAFF WAS TO THAT WE HAD TO HAVE A TRANSITION BETWEEN THE TWO. AND THAT'S KINDA WHERE IF WE GO WITH A VERTICAL TRANSITION PIECE INTO IT, WE'RE ADDING TO THE MASS, WHICH WAS KIND OF THE SAME ISSUE WE HAD WITH OUR FIRST ITERATION. SO WE'RE KIND OF PROPOSING, AND THIS IS JUST A, A PROPOSAL AS A SOLUTION IS TO HANDLE THAT TRANSITION THE WAY THE FRONT PORCH HAS BEEN HANDLED. AND SO WE'RE USING THAT SAME ROOF LINE JUST FOR THAT LITTLE SPACE IN BETWEEN KIND OF TRYING TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN OLD AND NEW. AND YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN TRICKY. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT HAS US QUESTIONING A LOT ABOUT WHAT WE THINK WAS THE RIGHT OR ISN'T, WHICH IS GOOD IN A WAY WE'RE CHALLENGED. SO, SO I APOLOGIZE IF I'M A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, JUST NOT QUITE SURE, UH, A LITTLE LOST A LITTLE CONFIDENCE I GUESS IN MY OWN, UH, VIEW OF THIS, UH, THROUGH ALL THE COMMENTARY. BUT WHAT WE HAVE DONE, AND I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT, IS WE'VE TAKEN ALL THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO US AND WE HAVE INCORPORATED THEM IN EVERY WAY WE CAN, UH, TO FIT THE, THE, UH, NEEDS. WE'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH KING WILLIAM, HAVING THEM REVIEW IT AND HAD AMAZING FEEDBACK FROM THEM. UH, WHICH IS ONE OF THE CHANGES WAS TO MAKE SURE WE KEEP THAT SEVEN FOOT PLATE HEIGHT ON THE SECOND FLOOR, WHICH WE'VE DONE HERE. NOW, OF COURSE THAT INCREASES THE HEIGHT A LITTLE BIT, BUT WE CAN HAVE THINGS BOTH WAYS. I MEAN, EITHER WE NEED THAT PLATE HEIGHT OR YEAH. OR NOT. SO, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO STICK WITH THAT, UM, WITH OUR CONVICTION ON THAT, THAT DOING IT IN THIS WAY, WE HAVE RETURNED THE PREVIOUS OWNERS, ONE OF THEM, WE DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE TOOK THE CEILING HEIGHTS AND DROPPED THEM TO CREATE THE ATTIC SPACE TO LIVE IN. WE'RE RESTORING ALL BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CEILING HEIGHTS THROUGHOUT. UM, AND THEN MAKING SURE WE MAINTAIN THAT SEVEN FOOT ON THE SECOND FLOOR AND THEN BASICALLY LETTING THE CARDS KIND OF FALL WHERE THEY MAY AS FAR AS THIS IS THE STRUCTURE, BUT IN THE END, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I GUESS IT MAY BE SUBJECTIVE IN SOME WAY, BUT I MEAN, I FEEL THE PROPORTIONS HAVE BEEN MET AND, AND THE WINDOWS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE OPENING INTERPRETATION AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, IF WE NEED TO MAKE FURTHER ADJUSTMENTS OR, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THINGS IN LINE, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THINGS SIMPLE. WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP IT AS A, UH, AS A, AS A, A FORM THAT ADHERES TO THE, THE SURROUNDING AREA. RIGHT. SO IF WE CAN GO TO, UH, UH, THE SITE PLAN OR THE, I THINK IT'S ON THE COVER SHEET. YEAH. UM, SO THAT CAN, CAN I QUICKLY CAN, EXCUSE ME, CAN I QUICKLY CONFIRM THE DATE OF THE SET THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT? IS THIS THE, IS THIS FIVE 10 OR IS IT FIVE 13? IT'S THE ONE. OH, I'M, OH, UH, IT'S THE ONE ON THE SCREEN. I'M NOT QUITE SURE. I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU. WE'VE HAD SO MANY, UH, THE DATES HAVE BEEN KINDA LOST. WE JUST KINDA KNOW VISUALLY, WHICH IS THE LATEST. THESE WERE SUBMITTED ON THE, ON THE 10TH, UM, AND ARE NOT PART OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, THIS IS, UH, THESE ARE NEW DOCUMENTS FOR REVIEW. CURRENTLY THEY'RE SUBMITTED ON THE 10TH, BUT THEY'RE DATED THE 13TH. [02:45:01] I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I YEAH, SORRY. THAT'S FINE. OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. THANKS. YEAH. UM, RIGHT, SO, SO THE L-SHAPED PORTION ON THE HOUSE ON THE FRONT HERE, THAT'S THE ORIGINAL, UM, UH, STRUCTURE. SO THE, THE NEW ADDITION IS THAT MASS ON THE BACKSIDE. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE ARE, UM, ASKING TO BE CONSTRUCTED, UM, FOR THE, UH, OUR TWO STORY ADDITION. AND THEN ANY, ANY WINDOWS THAT ARE EXISTING ON THE EXISTING HISTORIC PORTION OF THE BUILDING, WE ARE, WE ARE, UM, REPLACING WITH THE SAME SIZE OF THE HISTORIC CORRECT. THAT THAT WAS ALREADY THERE, WHICH IS NOT HOW IT IS NOW. THE WOOD WINDOWS CUT 'EM DOWN, WE'LL BRING 'EM ALL BACK. WOOD WINDOWS, RIGHT WOOD WINDOWS, THEY'RE SEVERAL OR ANYTHING IN THE, UM, IS THAT THROUGHOUT THE PROJECT OR JUST ON THE EXISTING HOUSE? ON THE EXISTING HOUSE. AND THEN ON THE NEW WE WILL RE WE'LL SUBMIT, UM, UH, SPECIFICATIONS FOR APPROVAL OR APPROVAL ON THOSE. AND WHAT ARE YOU PROPOSING FOR THOSE? WELL BE HONEST, WE HAVEN'T SPENT A WHOLE LOT ON THAT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN SO BUSY TRYING TO GET THIS CONCEPT PART TO KNOW WHETHER WE'RE EVEN ON THE RIGHT PLACE. SO I'LL BE HONEST, WE, WE WERE HOPING TO BASICALLY SUBMIT THAT AS A SEPARATE PACKET OF THE SPECIFICATIONS AND EVERYTHING. AND WITH FULL APPROVAL, WE DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING THAT IS NOT, WE DON'T WANT TO DO, UH, REPEAT THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE OWNED IT BEFORE AND WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY. SO WE'RE TRYING TO BE NOT, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, VERY PASSIVE I GUESS IN OUR APPROACH TO TRY AND GET THIS THROUGH TO GET IT DONE. AND, AND WE'RE ON OUR THIRD MONTH NOW, SO WE'RE, WE'RE REALLY GOING TO, YOU KNOW, WE'D REALLY LIKE TO JUST FIGURE OUT AN EVEN GROUND TO, TO GET THIS GOING. RIGHT. WELL, WE APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR PATIENCE AND YOUR WORKING WITH THE COMMISSION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, BEFORE WE GET TO OTHER COMMISSIONER, QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS, ARE THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? THERE IS A LETTER FROM THE MONTE VISTA. WE HAVE ONE LETTER AND ONE VOICEMAIL KING, BUT DO WE HAVE ANY VOICEMAILS? I BELIEVE ONE. VOICEMAIL AND OPPOSITION. THIS IS LISA LIND CALLING ON BEHALF OF THE ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE OF THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION REGARDING 2 22 WICK STREET. CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 2 DASH 59. DEAR COMMISSIONERS, THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEWED THE REVISED DESIGN DOCUMENTS FOR THIS PROJECT SUBMITTED ON 5 4 20 22 AND RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. THE GUIDELINES STATE THAT THE REAR ROOFTOP ADDITIONS ARE APPROPRIATE PROVIDED THEY DO NOT OVERWHELM THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE WHEN VIEWED FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. THE LINE OF SIGHT STUDY ILLUSTRATES THAT THE TWO STORY ADDITION WITH THE EAST FACE STEPPED BACK FROM THE EAST FACE OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE WILL NOT BE SEEN FROM THE STREET AND THEREFORE APPROPRIATE. ADDITIONALLY, THE NOTCH AND PLAN ON THE EAST SIDE BETWEEN THE ONE STORY AND TWO STORY FORMS WILL SERVE TO ARTICULATE THE NEW AND HISTORIC STRUCTURES. HOWEVER, IN CONSIDERATION OF THE NEIGHBOR'S BACKYARD PRIVACY AND BEING FOREIGN TO THE HISTORIC FENESTRATION PATTERN, WE RECOMMEND THAT THE EAST FACING BALCONY AND DOUBLE DOORS BE ELIMINATED AND REPLACED WITH WINDOWS OF HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE SIZE, MATERIAL AND PATTERN. WE ARE PLEASED TO SEE THAT THE WINDOWS OF ORIGINAL SIZE PATTERN AND MATERIAL WILL BE INSTALLED IN THE FORMER ORIGINAL OPENINGS. WE RECOMMEND THAT A DETAILED WINDOW SCHEDULE, INCLUDING THE ORIGINAL OPENING SIZES DETERMINED BY ONSITE INVESTIGATION, BE SUBMITTED WITH THE APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. UNFORTUNATELY, SALVAGEABLE HISTORIC MATERIALS HAVE LIKELY BEEN DISCARDED DUE TO DEMOLITION WORK BEING PERFORMED BY THE PREVIOUS AND CURRENT OWNERS ON THIS HISTORIC STRUCTURE. WITHOUT PROPER PRIOR APPROVAL, WE RECOMMEND THAT ANY REMAINING SALVAGEABLE HISTORIC MATERIALS BE INCORPORATED INTO THE PROJECT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION. CAN YOU BRING UP THE FLOOR PLAN OF THE MAY 10TH? IT'S THE ONE RIGHT THERE. PARTIALLY IN VIEW, YES, THERE. YES SIR. UM, BETWEEN MAY 4TH, WHICH IS THE PLANS WE RECEIVED IN OUR PACKET AND THE MAY 10TH MM-HMM. [02:50:01] , UH, I SEE THAT Y'ALL DID RE DELETE THE BALCONY AND THE DOUBLE DOORS AND Y'ALL PUT IN APPROPRIATE WINDOWS, BUT YOU ALSO BROUGHT OUT THE, UM, WHERE THE BALCONY WAS ALL THE WAY OUT TO A LINE WITH THE EXISTING HOUSE. YES, SIR. AND UM, I THINK IN TERMS OF AN ADDITION TO AN EXISTING HOUSE, IT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE IF THAT WALL WAS PULLED BACK, UM, A FOOT OR TWO FROM LINING UP EXACTLY. WITH THE EXISTING HOUSE. AGAIN, THAT WOULD HELP, UH, DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE HISTORIC AND THE NEW EDITION. UH, HOPEFULLY YOU'D BE, UH, AGREEABLE TO THAT. YEAH, AND IF YOU LOOK AT, OUR PREVIOUS ITERATION ACTUALLY WAS SET BACK A FEW FEET, BUT IN A, ON THE, IN A SITE REVIEW WHEN WE HAD A, A VERY PRODUCTIVE DISCUSSION ABOUT IT, THE POINT OF THE BALCONY CAME UP AND THE BALCONY, IT WAS BASICALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, TO PARAPHRASE IS THAT IF WE MAKE IT ITS OWN FORM, ITS OWN STRUCTURE AND LOSE, WE COULD LOSE THE BALCONY AND POSSIBLY INCREASE IT AS ITS OWN INDIVIDUAL ENTITY OR, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, UH, FORM. AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW THAT CAME ABOUT. BUT OUR ORIGINAL DRAWINGS WAS ACTUALLY TWO FEET BACK SO THAT FROM THE SIDE, YOU, YOU, YOU HAPPENED UPON IT, IT WASN'T LIKE RIGHT THERE. SO THAT MODIFICATION CAN EASILY BE MADE. BUT I DO, LIKE I SAID, THE REASONING BEHIND IT DID COME FROM FEEDBACK AND IT WAS BASICALLY LIKE A, WELL, YOU KNOW, HOW MARRIED ARE WE TO THE BALCONY? AND, AND, AND QUITE HONESTLY, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT IT AND WE UNDERSTAND THE NEIGHBOR'S CONCERNS WITH HAVING A BALCONY AND THERE WE GET ALL THAT CERTAINLY. UM, SO THAT'S HOW THAT CAME ABOUT JUST TO EXPLAIN. OKAY. SO EVEN IF YOU BROUGHT IT OUT TO WHERE THE BALCONY WAS, YOU'D STILL BE BEHIND WHERE, UM, THE HISTORIC WALL, UH, ABOUT A FOOT 18 INCHES. YEAH, IT WAS, UH, THEREABOUTS. THANK YOU CHAIR, MR. CHAIR? UH, YES. COMMISSIONER GRU, I'VE FOLLOWED. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT SOLUTION. UM, I THINK, AND, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE COMMENTS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY'VE OF COURSE NOT SEEN THE FIVE 10 DRAWINGS. AND I THINK, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I, I LIKE TOO IS THAT YOU HAVE YOUR WINDOWS CENTERED ON THAT WALL. SO IF THEY WERE TO MOVE IT ANOTHER TWO FEET, THEN THAT WOULD MESS UP THE WINDOW ALIGNMENTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE IT, LIKE YOU HAVE A BEDROOM, BATHROOM, BEDROOM, AND IF YOU CENTER THE WINDOWS IN EACH ROOM MM-HMM. , I GUESS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE LIKE, AND I FEEL LIKE AT THIS POINT I THINK THIS IS A GREAT SOLUTION COMPARED TO WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT INITIALLY. AND, AND THIS IS JUST PROOF THAT, YOU KNOW, BY REVISING AND GOING BACK AND GOING BACK, THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY COME UP WITH SOMETHING. THIS ADDITION IS HIGHER THAN THE FRONT, BUT IT'S CLEARLY ALSO BECAUSE IT'S JUST A UNIQUE PROPERTY. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S UP HIGH UP ON THE, FROM THE STREET MM-HMM. AND I WOULD A HUNDRED PERCENT UM, SUPPORT THE PROJECT AS PRESENTED TODAY. AND I'LL DO A MOTION IF IT'S ANYBODY ELSE, OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, OR GO AHEAD AND MAKE MOTION. MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M OF THE SAME MIND AND WOULD SUPPORT, UH, A MOTION BY, UH, COMMISSIONER GRU. SO THIS IS A DIFFICULT MOTION BECAUSE UM, THE FINDINGS SAY IT'S CONCEPTUAL, THE NEIGHBORHOOD THOUGHT IT WAS CONCEPTUAL, SO I WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S CLEAR THIS IS A FINAL, THE RECOMMENDATION IS FOR FINAL APPROVAL. YES. AND SO I'M GONNA RECOMMEND, UM, FINAL APPROVAL OF ANY AND ALL ELEMENTS DETAILED IN THE DRAWINGS PRESENTED AND SENT ON MAY 10TH TODAY. SO, UM, THERE IS A STIPULATE WITH STAFF STIPULATION. NO, THE ONLY STIPULATION FROM STAFF IS STIPULATION THREE, WHICH IS THE WINDOW DETAILS. SO BASICALLY, AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THOSE WINDOW DETAILS, YOU'RE GONNA COME UP WITH A WINDOW THAT'S, UH, APPROVED. UM, I, I FEEL COMPELLED TO SOMEHOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN ADD TO THIS MOTION TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS INCLUDES SOME OF THE EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE FINDINGS. UM, UM, BUT THAT'S THIS YOUR GROUP? YES. UH, MAY, MAY I, UH, MAKE A FRIENDLY SUGGESTION THAT WE INCLUDE, UH, STIPULATION ONE. THAT'S THE ONE REGARDING THE DECONSTRUCTION VERSUS MECHANICAL DEMOLITION. THE APPLICANT'S ALREADY AGREED TO THAT. YEAH, SORRY. AND ALSO, UM, STIPULATION NUMBER FOUR AS IT APPLIES TO BOTH WINDOWS BEING PUT INTO THE ADDITION AND ALSO WINDOWS BEING, UH, PUT INTO THE ORIGINAL HOUSE THAT THEY MEET THE SIZE PATTERN MATERIALITY BE IN KIND REPLACEMENTS. YES. I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THAT INCLUDES THAT, THAT INCLUDES THE EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS. OKAY. AND THE PORCH. UM, ACTUALLY, UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, [02:55:01] THERE'S EVEN LIKE A DOOR ENTRY THAT'S GONNA BE REPLACED WITH A WINDOW, WHICH WAS, THERE ORIGINALLY WAS A WINDOW. SO I, I'M CONFIDENT THAT THE UH, APPLICANT UM, CAN MAKE THIS, YOU KNOW, RETURN TO ITS ORIGINAL, BUT YES. UH, SO STIPULATION ONE, CORRECT AND STIPULATION FOUR FOUR APPLY TO BOTH THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE AND THE ADDITION AND ANY EXTERIOR MODIFICATION AS DETAILED IN THE DRAWINGS OF FIVE 10. I'LL SECOND. SECOND. MOTION. WE HAVE A MOTION IS SECOND. IS IT? IS STAFF CLEAR ON WHAT THE MOTION IS? I THINK WE GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SAVINO A VELASQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA AYE. CARPENTER? AYE GROUP? AYE. CERVANTES? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 22. THANK YOU. WELL WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR? YOUR FILE? THE AGENDA, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 22 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 2 74 ADDRESS, 1 34 SHRINER PLACE. UH, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE AN ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF WITH A STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF TO FEATURE A SLATE GRAY COLOR AND A RIDGE CAP. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE PANEL BE SMOOTH AND FEATURE AN 18 TO 21 INCH IN WIDTH SEAM SHOULD BE ONE TO TWO INCHES TALL. RICH SEAMS SHOULD FEATURE A CRIM RICH SEAM. UM, THE APPLICANT, JOE BANKS, JOE BETH EUBANKS IS ATTENDING VIRTUALLY. YES, MS. EUBANK, YOU MAY PROCEED. MS. EUBANK, ARE YOU THERE? I SAW YOU FOR A SECOND. MS, ARE YOU THERE? MISS YOU BANKS. SO YOU'RE MUTED NOW. MAKE SURE YOU UNMUTE. ARE YOU THERE? WE CAN'T HEAR YOU. YOU MIGHT HAVE MR. CHAIR. WHILE THEY'RE DOING THAT, I ASK CORY THE RECOMMENDATION IS THAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. SORRY, [03:00:01] LET ME PULL IT UP TO, SORRY. SO WE HAVE ISSUED APPROVAL FOR THE COLOR. THE QUESTION I BELIEVE IS FOR THE RAISED RIDGE CAP. RIDGE CAP, WHICH WE NORMALLY RECOMMEND AGAINST. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU COREY MONITOR. SO YOU'RE UNMUTED MS. EUBANKS, BUT I, SOMETHING'S WRONG WITH YOUR AUDIO TO WHERE WE CAN'T HEAR YOU SO WE'LL HAVE TO LIKE, SHALL WE PROCEED WITH THE NEXT CASE UNTIL WE GET THE APPLICANT HERE? YEAH, LET'S DO IT CLAUDIA, LET'S GO TO THE NEXT CASE PLEASE. YES. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 23. WE'LL COME BACK TO AGENDA ITEM 22 WHEN WE UH, CORRECT OUR AUDIO ISSUES. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 23 H D R C CASE 2022 DASH 2 61 ADDRESS, 7 24 NOLAN STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE AN EXISTING RED STANDING SEA METAL ROOF WITH THE MATTE BLACK STANDING SEA METAL ROOF. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE ROOF REPLACEMENT WITH A STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL A ROOF THAT FEATURES A COLOR CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND HISTORIC PRECEDENT, RED, WHITE OR STANDING GAL. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPLICANT ADHERE TO THE ADDITIONAL STANDING SEA METAL ROOF STANDARDS. ONE PANELS. UM, PANELS SHOULD BE SMOOTH AND FEATURE 18 TO 21 INCHES IN WIDTH. UM, SEAM SHOULD BE ONE TO TWO INCHES TALL. RICH SEAM SHOULD FEATURE A CRIMPED RICH SEAM. UM, THE APPLICANT ALEXANDER UM, PENA IS ATTENDING VIRTUALLY. I'M HIS CONTRACTOR. OH, THIS IS ALEX. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, ALEX. AND THEN WE'VE GOT YOUR CONTRACTOR HERE TOO WHO YES, IF YOU'D LIKE TO, UM, MIKE ROD IS ALSO HERE IN PERSON. YES. HI, I'M MIKE RODRIGUEZ WITH, UH, DAVE CO CUSTOM BUILDERS AND IRON CLOUD ROOFING. UM, SO I'M HERE TO SEEK APPROVAL FOR MATT BLACK STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF AT MR. UM, PEREZ'S, UH, RESIDENCE. UH, IT CURRENTLY HAS A RED STANDING SEAM ROOF ON THERE. OKAY. AND I BELIEVE HE'S PAINTING THE HOUSE AS WELL. I MIGHT WANNA CONFIRM WITH HIM. YEAH, THAT'LL BE A SEPARATE, UM, APPROVAL THAT WILL DO ADMINISTRATIVE, BUT NOT AT THIS SESSION. OKAY. IS THERE ANY CONCERN ABOUT DOING A CRIMPED RIDGE SEAMS? NO. ALL THE, UH, INSTALLATION GUIDELINES, UH, WILL BE MET ACCORDING TO THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES. OKAY. IT APPEARS THAT THE, WHAT'S ON THERE NOW MAY NOT BE ORIGINAL BECAUSE IT HAS SOME FAIRLY LARGE RIDGE CAPS. THAT IS CORRECT. UH, ORIGINALLY THE HOUSE HAD WOOD SHAKE ROOF ON IT, WOOD SHAKE. OKAY. BUT, UH, SINCE THE WOOD SHAKE WAS REMOVED AND, AND THE STANDING SCENE WAS INSTALLED. OKAY. SO BASICALLY THE QUESTION NOW IS JUST THE COLOR. JUST JUST COLOR CORRECT. AND IN THAT AREA YOU PROBABLY KNOW THERE ARE SEVERAL HOUSES WITH THE MAP BLACK FINISH ON THEM. OKAY. UM, MR. PEREZ, UH, DID YOU EXPLORE POSSIBLY A PRE WEATHERED GALVAO AS OPPOSED TO A, UH, PAINTED FINISH, WHICH WOULD BE DARKER AND, UH, AGE FASTER THAN A STANDARD GAL BALLOON? UM, I WAS NOT AWARE OF THAT. THE, THE REASON THAT I'M REQUESTING IT, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS RIGHT NOW OF SUBMITTING TO PUT SOLAR PANELS ON THE HOUSE. UM, THE MAJORITY OF THEM WILL NOT BE VISIBLE ON THE FRONT, ON THE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, BUT ON THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY, UM, THE SOUTH FACING, THERE'LL BE SEVERAL PANELS MOUNTED ON THE, ON THE ROOF AND WE FIGURED WITH, UH, THE BLACK MAT, BLACK FINISH, THOSE SOLAR PANELS WOULD BE LESS VISIBLE. WE, THERE'S OTHER HOUSES IN THE AREA WITH SOLAR PANELS THAT BECAUSE IT'S HISTORIC AND JUST, I JUST FELT THAT THE BLACK MATTE BLACK FINISH WOULD HELP TO CONCEAL 'EM BETTER RATHER THAN MAKE IT SUCH A VISIBLE ELEMENT. YEAH. OKAY. [03:05:01] THANK YOU. UH, OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? YES, COMMISSIONER SINO. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. UM, COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UM, YOU MENTIONED, UH, THAT THERE WERE OTHER EXAMPLES OF MATT BLACK ROOFS ON HISTORIC HOUSES IN THE DISTRICT. UM, JUST DRIVING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU SAW SOME OF THOSE. I WAS ABLE TO SEE A, A FEW ACCENT ROOFS, UH, ON SEVERAL RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES IN THAT AREA. I CAN'T GIVE YOU EXACT ADDRESSES. I DIDN'T WRITE 'EM DOWN, BUT I, I WORK IN THE AREA A LOT, SO I, I'M FAMILIAR WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S OUT THERE. SURE. I KNOW MAYBE, UM, THERE MAY BE A, A NEW CONSTRUCTION, I DON'T KNOW, OF A HISTORIC. UM, AND SO MR. RUEZ, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE SWITCH OR THE EXCHANGE OF HEAT GAIN, UM, FOR THAT MATTE BLACK VERSUS A LIGHTER COLOR THAT HAS A PERHAPS A HIGHER SOLAR REFLECTANCE INDEX? DOES THAT CONCERN YOU? WELL, I'M TRYING TO FIND A, YEAH, I, I DID CONSIDER THAT, BUT I'M TRYING TO FIND A BALANCE BETWEEN THE HISTORIC APPEARANCE OF THE HOUSE AND THE ENERGY AS WELL. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIND A, A BALANCE AND I DIDN'T PARTICULARLY FIND THE, THE SOLAR PANELS VERY APPEALING ON THE STRUCTURES. UM, ESPECIALLY 'CAUSE IT'S EITHER RED OR THE, THE ALUMINUM COLOR, IT JUST, THEY REALLY POP OUT AND I FIGURED THE MATTE BLACK WOULD BE A GOOD COMPROMISE. SURE, SURE. YOU MAY FIND YOU HAVE TO DOUBLE UP ON THOSE PV PANELS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE HEAT GAME, BUT, UM, UH, YOU MAY WANNA CONSIDER EVEN SOMETHING LIKE, UM, WHAT ONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS SUGGESTED THAT'S A GRAY OR SOME KIND OF OTHER WEATHERED GAL IN FINISH AND IT WON'T BE SUCH A STARK CONTRAST. WELL, EVEN THOUGH, IF I MAY TOUCH BASE ON THAT, EVEN THE PRE WEATHER GAVEL LOOM IS GONNA BE QUITE NOTICEABLE. UM, AND THERE ARE SOLAR PANELS OUT THERE THAT ARE BLACKED OUT ENTIRELY, SO IT WOULD BLEND VERY WELL WITH THE BLACK MATT BLACK ROOF. BUT, UH, THE PRE WEATHER GAVEL LOOM IS STILL YOUR GRAY COLOR AND IT'S VERY NOTICEABLE. SO PRE WEATHER GLOOM, THE GLOOM TURNS INTO PREW GLOOM. THEY JUST KIND OF TOOK THE AGING PROCESS OUT OF IT WHEN THEY MADE THE PRE WEATHER. RIGHT, RIGHT. WELL, A LOT OF THE METAL ROOFS, UM, UH, THE REASON WHY THE, THE GALVAO FINISH IS, UH, READILY ACCEPTABLE IS BECAUSE IT BEST MIMICS THE TIN AND THE OTHER METAL ROOFS THAT, UM, WERE ORIGINALLY OR WERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND REPLACING SHAKE SHINGLE, FOR INSTANCE, I KNOW RED IS, IS SORT OF A, A MOCK-UP OR COPY OF, UM, A TILE, TERRACOTTA TILE ROOF THAT'S AN, AN ATTEMPT TO EMULATE THAT COLOR. MM-HMM. , UM, GREEN IS OFTEN A COLOR FROM ANOTHER GEOGRAPHY WHERE COPPER TURNS GREEN. THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THAT, AND I WAS GONNA MENTION THAT TOO, BECAUSE THE PANINA OF COPPER FROM WHEN IT'S ORIGINALLY INSTALLED WILL WEATHER TO BROWN TO BROWN, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE. SHE ALMOST BLACK AND THEN PANINA TO GREEN. OF COURSE THAT TAKES 80, 90 YEARS TO HAPPEN. BUT UNLESS YOU, UH, PUT SOMETHING ON THERE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN A LOT FASTER MM-HMM. , IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE IN THE WORLD WHERE THAT HAPPENS. SO, UM, A LOT OF THE COLORS EVEN IN SHEET METAL AS WELL AS IN SHINGLE COME FROM THAT, UM, HISTORY OF COPYING OTHER MATERIALS. UM, AND SO I, I DON'T THINK THE BLACK IS TERRIBLY HISTORIC FOR THAT DISTRICT. MR. CHAIR HAD. YES, SIR. DID JOE VISIT THE, ON THE, I I MIGHT HAVE MISSED IT WHEN, WHEN I WENT OUT ON THE RIDGE, IS IS IT A CAP OR IS IT A SEAM? UM, CURRENTLY IT'S A CAP COLOR HERE. OH, OKAY. WELL, IT'S JUST ABOUT YOUR ROOF. OKAY. WELL IF THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE THEN BECAUSE IT'S, THAT KINDA WEIGHS INTO IT. IF IT, IF IT'S GONNA HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF A HISTORIC CHARACTER, RIGHT? MM-HMM. THEN IT, IT MIGHT BE BEST TO TREAT THE, THE, UM, OR TO ALLOW THE, THE, THE, UH, SOLAR PANEL TO BE A SOLAR PANEL. YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TECHNOLOGY'S GONNA DO. MAYBE THE TECHNOLOGY CHANGES AND IT BECOMES LIKE THEY'RE MAKING TILES RIGHT OUT OF THE TECHNOLOGY ALREADY. YEAH. SO THAT YOU, YOU ALLOW THE BUILDING TO BE WHAT IT IS AND ALLOW THE SOLAR PANEL TO BE AN ALIEN, UH, PRODUCT. RIGHT. THAT, THAT LANDED ON THAT ROOF. BUT, BUT THEN FROM THE STREET YOU'LL GET THAT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TIN LOOK, THE HISTORIC, UH, YEAH. YEAH. BECAUSE IF YOU PUT, IF YOU HAVE A BLACK ROOF AND THEN YOU PUT A BLACK PANEL ON IT, IT'S GONNA START QUICKLY NOT TO LOOK LIKE ANYTHING YOU WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE. WHEREAS IT'LL ALLOW THE, THE PERSON LOOKING AT IT TO SAY, LOOK, IT'S HISTORIC ROOF AND THERE'S A SOLAR PANEL IN IT, WHICH IS A TRUE STATEMENT, YOU KNOW? YEAH. UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I AGREE WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER [03:10:01] VELASQUEZ AND, AND, UH, UH, THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE PREVIOUSLY. THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE ALBEDO EFFECT. THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, THE PROPERTY OF THE, OF THE ROOFING, HOW REFLECTIVE IT IS. AND IF YOU PAINT IT BLACK AND HAVE IT IN SOUTH TEXAS, IT WILL, UH, HEAT UP TREMENDOUSLY AND TRANSFER A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF HEAT INTO THE UNDERLAYMENT. IT WILL DETERIORATE THE UNDERLAYMENT FASTER. UH, SO THERE'S ALL KINDS OF TECHNICAL ISSUES. IF YOU'RE ONLY JUST LOOKING AT THIS FROM A HEAT GAIN AND EFFICIENCY STANDPOINT, IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO HAVE A BLACK ROOF IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. AND I, I AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, LET THE HOUSE BE WHAT IT IS, AND IT'S IN HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT IT SHOULD BE RESPONDING TO LET THE SOLAR PANELS BE WHAT THEY ARE, AND THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE SOMETHING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GONNA COME AND GO AND CHANGE FORMS MANY, MANY TIMES AS THAT TECHNOLOGY, UH, IS, IS FURTHER, UH, PERFECTED. SO, UM, I, I WOULD THINK THE, EITHER THE WEATHERED GLOOM WOULD BE A VERY, VERY APPROPRIATE, UH, APPROACH THAT THE CHAIRMAN MENTIONED, OR GOING WITH SOME KIND OF, UH, GRAY FINISH ON IT, OR A NATURAL GAL BLOOM FINISH. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT MAKE SENSE WITHIN THIS HISTORIC CONTEXT. THANK YOU. CAN I TOUCH BASE ON THE, THE COLOR REAL QUICK? UM, JUST FOR Y'ALL'S KNOWLEDGE, WHEN THEY DO BAKE THE COLOR ON, UM, IT'S MADE WITH A SPECIAL PIGMENT TO HELP THE NECESSITY GRATING. SO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GLOOM AND BLACK IS VERY MINUTE. THE, UM, THE EFFICIENCY COMES FROM THE METAL COOLING DOWN RAPIDLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE SUN GOES DOWN. AND SO THE COLOR REALLY DOESN'T PLAY A FACTOR IN IT TOO MUCH. SOUTH TEXAS IS HOT, NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO, SAN ANTONIO IS HOT. YOU PUT A YOUR HAND ON A BLACK ROOF AND A WHITE ROOF, IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME. IT'S HOT. SO IT JUST SOMETHING FOR Y'ALL TO KNOW FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. SO IF YOU'RE UP NORTH WHERE YOU HAVE COLD AND YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? SO THANK YOU COMMISSIONER GROUP. I MEAN, I AGREE WITH ALL MY COMMISSIONERS. UM, ALSO, WE KIND OF ALSO LOOK WHAT'S IN THE VICINITY AND THERE'S A VERY BEAUTIFUL RESTORATIVE, HISTORIC HOME RIGHT CATTY CORNER. I JUST TOOK A DIVE DOWN ALL THE SIDE STREETS. I COULDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT HAD A BLACK, DID IT? SEE GLOOM? YEAH. YEAH. AND THE TWO NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES AS WELL. SO I MEAN, IT'S REALLY MM-HMM. JUST WHAT'S NEAR. SO I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE MORE APPROPRIATE. ALSO, THE HOUSE IS VERY TALL AND I THINK A LOT OF THE SOLAR PANELS WON'T EVEN BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. I THINK MOST OF THE ROOF WON'T BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. SO WHETHER A BLACK PANEL IS ON A GALVAN ROOF, I DON'T EVEN THINK IT'S GONNA BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. YEAH. AND THERE'S A HOUSE BEHIND IT IS. I WOULD LEAVE THE COLOR NOT UP TO OUR DECISION. I THINK STAFF HAS IT VERY RIGHT ON THEIR RECOMMENDATION. PRETTY OPEN, RED, WHITE OR STANDARD. AND I THINK MAYBE WE CAN JUST ADD THE WEATHERED GAO OR ANY TYPE OF GAO, BUT I WOULD, I WOULD, UM, SUPPORT AS, AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF. IS THAT A MOTION? MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, WITH, UH, WITH STAFF STIPULATION. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. UM, DID WE DO THE VOICEMAIL? I'M SORRY. HELLO, MY NAME IS VALERIE CORDES AND I RESIDE AT 5 0 8 LAMAR STREET WITH IN DIGNITY HILL. I'M CALLING ON BEHALF OF THE CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIGNITY HILL WITH REGARD TO CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 2 6 1, LOCATED AT 7 24 NOLAND STREET. WE SUPPORT STAFF. THE NEW METAL ROOF COLOR SHOULD BE IN LINE WITH O H P GUIDELINES. THANK YOU. OKAY. I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. ARE WE READY FOR ROLL CALL? UH, ROLL CALL PLEASE. FISH. AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE GROUP? AYE. BANES? YES BET. AYE GIBBS? AYE. RUSSIAN CARIES? GOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU TO ITEMS. UH, DO WE HAVE THANK YOU APPLICANT OFFER NUMBER 22. I THINK WE'VE GOT IT FIGURED OUT. LET'S SEE, EDWARD, WHAT DID WE DO? R SIX. OKAY. MS. UPPE. HELLO? YES, WE HEAR YOU. CAN YOU HEAR US? YES. OKAY. YOUR CASE MANAGER, CLAUDIA'S [03:15:01] GONNA READ YOUR CASE INTO THE RECORD AND THEN WE'LL START. OKAY. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 22 H D R C CASE 2 20 22 DASH 2 74. ADDRESS, 1 34 SHRINER PLACE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF. WITH A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF TO FEATURE A SLATE GRAY COLOR AND A RIDGE CAP. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE PANEL SHOULD BE SMOOTH AND FEATURE AN 18 TO 21 INCH IN WIDTH SEAM SHOULD BE ONE TO TWO INCHES TALL. RIDGE SEAM SHOULD FEATURE A CRIMPED RIDGE TEAM. THE APPLICANT JOE EUBANKS IS JOINING VIRTUALLY, YES, MS. EUBANKS. OKAY. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT OR THE STIPULATION THAT THE RICH MUST BE CRIMPED INSTEAD OF A RIDGE CAP. AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT PAINTED METAL ROOFS REPAINTED, SUCH AS I AM CONTEMPLATING HAVE CAPS INSTEAD OF CRIMP CRIMPING, THE PER THE ROOFING COMPANY. AND FRANKLY, JUST ABOUT EVERY METAL ROOF THAT IS PAINTED THAT I HAVE SEEN IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND ELSEWHERE HAS A RICH CAP INSTEAD OF CRIMPING. UM, THERE ARE THREE HOUSES ON MY STREET ALL WITH PAINTED METAL ROOFS, AND ALL THREE OF THEM HAVE CAPS. AND, UH, I UNDERSTAND FROM THE ROOFING COMPANY THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO CRIMP THE PAINTED ROOF INSTEAD OF THE GAL BALLOON. AND SO I REQUESTED THE RIDGE CAP INSTEAD. SO WELL, TO BE MORE HISTOR HISTORICALLY ACCURATE, UH, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. A EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE SOME PROBABLY MORE RECENT, UH, METAL ROOFS ON THERE WITH RIDGE CAPS, A MORE APPROPRIATELY HISTORIC DETAIL WOULD BE THE CRIMPED, UH, RIDGES, WHICH CAN BE ACHIEVED IN A GALVAO OR A, UH, PRE WEATHERED GALVAO, WHICH IS DARKER THAN A, UH, A STANDARD GALVAO. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, UH, AND YOUR ROOFER LOOKED AT A PRE WEATHERED AND, UM, INSTEAD OF A, UH, PRE-PAINTED PAN. NO, THE GAL VALLUM I'VE SEEN IS PRETTY SHINY, WHICH IS NOT TO MY TASTE. AND IN FACT, THE PAINT COLORS ON THE, I RECENTLY PAINTED ALL THE TRIM AND THE DECORATOR CHOSE PAINT COLORS PRECISELY THINKING THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE THE PAINTED ROOF. I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S SEVERAL GAL BLOOM ROOFS WITH CAPS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE'S SO, AND ANOTHER THING, UH, I UNDERSTAND THE, THE ROOF CAP PROVIDES BETTER VENTILATION BECAUSE IT RUNS ALL ALONG THE, THE RIDGE AND UNTIL IT'S BETTER, WHICH OF COURSE IN SOUTH TEXAS IS A GOOD THING. MR. CHAIR, CAN WE CLARIFY SOMETHING? IS THE, THE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION SAY GLUM? IS THERE, IS THERE AN OPTION? I MEAN, UH, WAS COLOR NOT, UM, UH, PROHIBITED THROUGH THE RECOMMENDATION? NO. WE SO SHOW THE NO CLOSEUP PANEL. WE HAVE APPROVED THIS COLOR, WHICH IS CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS. IT'S NOT GLOOM, BUT WE HAVE ALSO APPROVED WHITE LIGHT GRAY ALMOND, LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE SEEN 'EM. SO AS LONG AS IT'S KIND OF IN THAT FAMILY, THEN WE USUALLY ALLOW IT. WELL, THE REASON I ASK IS BECAUSE IF, IF YOU APPROVE A PAINTED ON SURFACE, THEN THERE'S A LOT OF VALIDITY TO THE BAND AT THAT POINT. IF YOU APPROVE A GAL LUM OR AN ALUMINUM OR, UM, A UM, NOT UNFINISHED METAL, THEN THE BAND IS TOTALLY POSSIBLE. UM, SO IT'S KIND OF A, A CATCH THAT WE'RE STUCK IN. WE'RE NOT REQUIRING THE COLOR. AND THIS IS ALSO THE FIRST TIME THAT WE'VE GOTTEN THIS FEEDBACK FROM AN INSTALLER. UM, SO IT'S KIND OF NEW INFORMATION TO CONSIDER. SO AGAIN, LIKE SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO DO THIS COLOR IF IT'S, IF IT'S AN ISSUE WITH MEETING OTHER STIPULATIONS, AND THAT'S UP FOR THE COMMISSION TO KIND OF WEIGH IT, IT JUST SHOULD BE SHARED WITH HER TOO, THAT, THAT, THAT IN ORDER FOR THE AIR TO ESCAPE, THAT HAS TO MEAN THAT THE DECKING IS DESIGNED THAT WAY TOO. RIGHT? SO IF THE DECKING IS BUTTED UP TO EACH OTHER, NO, IF IT, IF IT'S BUTTED [03:20:01] UP TO EACH OTHER 'CAUSE IT'S AN OLD BUILDING, THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT GOOD A RIDGE VENT WOULD DO. THAT'S, THAT'S, IT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE THOUGH, BECAUSE IF IT'S, IF, IF IT'S RECOMMENDED TO BE GLOOM LIKE THE ROOF BEFORE, THEN IT'LL MATCH ANY COLOR. AND MATTER OF FACT, IT'LL ENHANCE ANY COLOR. ONCE YOU PICK A COLOR, YOU KIND OF LIMIT YOURSELF. UH, TOTALLY. UH, SO, UM, IT SEEMS THE MOST APPROPRIATE WOULD BE FOR IT TO BE THE WAY THAT STAFF HAS IT STIPULATED. BUT I'M CONFUSED BECAUSE GAL BLOOM IS THIS SHINY SILVER, WHICH IS NOT WHAT I REQUESTED, AND I REQUESTED THE PAINT PAINTED METAL ROOF AND SLATE GRAY, WHICH THEY APPROVED. I'M ONLY QUESTIONING THE CRIMPING INSTEAD OF A RIDGE CAP BECAUSE AS I SAID, THE, I MEAN THE ROOFERS, WHICH IS MANGOLD ROOFING, UM, HAD INFORMED ME THAT THAT PAINTED METAL ROOFS UNIFORMLY HAVE CAPS, AND THAT CERTAINLY BORNE OUT BY ALL THE PAINTED METAL ROOFS THAT I HAVE SEEN. SO AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THEN IF YOU APPROVE, IF, IF YOU APPROVE THE PAINTED METAL ROOF, WHEN YOU START TRYING TO CRIMP IT, THAT PAINT'S GONNA GET SCRAPED OFF. AND, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. YES. YEAH. WHICH IS MAKES SENSE THAT THAT'S WHAT MY POINT IS. EXACTLY. YEAH. SO HAS STAFF ISSUED AN APPROVAL ON THIS PAINTED MATERIAL? RIGHT, SO WHAT CAME TO US WAS A REQUEST MEETING, ALL STIPULATIONS WITH THIS COLOR. WE GAVE ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL AND THEN THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, OH WAIT, WE CAN'T DO THAT. WE NEED THE CAP. AND SO THAT'S WHAT'S PROMPTING THIS HEARING. SO, SO SHE, SHE CAN'T FULFILL STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS BECAUSE OF THE COLOR THAT WAS APPROVED. SO SHE HAD, FROM, FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT, YOU GOTTA PUT A CAP ON IT. SO IT WOULD BE RECOMMENDED. NO, IT WOULD BE, UH, IT'S NOT, NOT CORRECT. AND UH, WITH THESE ROOFS, EVEN WHEN YOU DO HAVE A CAP, THEY FREQUENTLY HAVE TO DO SOME TOUCHUP PAINTING IN THE FIELD, UH, AFTER APP, AFTER, UH, INSTALLATION. SO IT IS POSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE BOTH DETAILS, BOTH A VENTED CAP AND A CRIMPED WITH A PAINTED PRODUCT. WOULD, WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT COST MORE? I CAN'T ANSWER THAT. I'M NOT THE CONTRACTOR. WELL, JIMMY, IN A LOT OF CASES WHAT THE CAP DOES, IT HIRES IMP IT HIDES IMPERFECTIONS. BUT MANGLED IS A VERY, VERY REPUTABLE, VERY GOOD ROOFER. IF ANYBODY CAN DO IT, MANGO CAN DO IT. RIGHT. UM, SO MS. EUBANK, UNFORTUNATELY YES. DO YOU HAVE YOUR ROOFER WITH YOU? NO. OKAY. UH, YEAH, I'M SURE HE WOULD, HE, UH, WOULD BE HAPPY TO, I DON'T KNOW, PUT IN A WRITTEN SUBMISSION OR, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR THREE AND A HALF HOURS AND I COULDN'T EXPECT HIM TO SIT HERE FOR THREE AND A HALF HOURS WITH ME. YOU, YOU KNOW, UH, I WOULD THINK A MOTION TO, TO SUPPORT AS, UM, BUT WITH STAFF, UH, STIPULATIONS WOULD BE MOST IN ORDER, PARTICULARLY THAT I DOUBT THAT YOUR ROOF IS DESIGNED TO RELEASE THE ATTIC AIR, I MEAN THE DECKING. UH, SO IT MIGHT BE FOR NOTHING. IT MIGHT JUST BE TO HIDE THE IMPERFECTIONS. IF YOU HAD A LOT BETTER IT, YOU'D FEEL BETTER ABOUT IT. SO I GAMBLING ON THAT. I MAKE A MOTION THAT, THAT, THAT WE, UM, UH, UM, APPROVE WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. I'LL SECOND. AND YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE ROOFER'S QUALITY OF WORK WOULD BE ABLE TO FULFILL THAT. I THINK IT'S IN YOUR BEST INTEREST, MRS. SU. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH. AYE. SABINO? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. ZUKA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. MS. EUBANKS AND MANGOLD IS A QUALITY ROOFER, SO THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE CRIMPED TO DO THE CRIM RIDGES. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 24. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 24 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 200. [03:25:01] ADDRESS, 3 23 FU HILL STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR, FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, CONSTRUCT A NEW ADDITION TO A NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE, TWO, REPAIR AND PATCH EXISTING STRUCTURE TO MATCH THE EXISTING CONDITION, INCLUDING ALTERING EXISTING WINDOW OPENINGS AND INSTALLING REPLACEMENT WINDOWS ON THE FRONT FACADE. UM, AND THREE, CONSTRUCT A PORCH TO THE FRONT OF THE EXISTING BUILDING. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING ITEM NUMBER ONE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF ONE STORY ADDITION BASED ON THE FINDINGS, E THROUGH N STAFF RECOMMENDS APPLICANT MEET THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RETURNING TO H D R C THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCE THE OVERALL MASSING OF THE REAR ADDITION AND PROPOSES A REAR ADDITION THAT IS INSET FROM THE EXISTING WALL PANE ON FINDING F TWO. THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSE A FORM THAT IS SIMILAR TO THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE ON THE APPROPRIATE OR THE APPROPRIATE, UM, STYLE THAT DOES NOT MODIFY THE EXISTING FORM ROOF FORM. BASED ON FINDING G THREE AT THE APPLICANT, UPDATE THE PROPOSED TO FEATURE WINDOWS OF TRADITIONAL PROPORTIONS ON THE SOUTH FRONT ELEVATION BASED ON FINDING J. ITEM TWO. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING ONE. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT UPDATE THE PROPOSAL TO FEATURE WINDOWS OF TRADITIONAL PROPORTIONS AND MATERIALS BASED ON FI ON THE FINDINGS. ITEM THREE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE INSTALLATION OF A FRONT PORCH BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE PORCH BE RECONSTRUCTED TO DE THE DESIGN BASED ON THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE BUILDING AND THE HISTORIC PATTERNS. UM, THE APPLICANT, UH, MARCELLO MARTINEZ IS ATTENDING VIRTUALLY AND THE OWNERS, KEVIN AND MONICA, ARE ALSO ATTENDING VIRTUALLY. WHEN I HAVE, I HAVE KEVIN AND MONICA. I THINK WE LOST MARCELLO. ARE Y ALL THERE? YES. YES. GOOD EVENING. CAN YOU HEAR US? YES, WE DO. GOOD EVENING. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. IT'S BEEN A LOVELY HEARING ALL THE OTHER CHASES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. HEY, I'M IN THE MILITARY, UH, 22 YEARS OF HURRY UP AND WAIT. THIS IS NOTHING. SO, UH, YEAH. UM, GUYS THAT, SO WE LIVE, WE LIVE ACTUALLY, UH, IN 3, 2, 2 RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THIS PROPERTY. AND, UH, WE HAVE OUTGROWN IT. WE HAVE TWO SMALL CHILDREN. WE'RE TRYING FOR A THIRD AND WE HAVE A, UM, WE'VE DECIDED THAT WE'RE GONNA RETIRE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. SO, UH, WE ARE, WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE IN FRONT OF US. WE ARE LOOKING TO EXPAND IT. WE'RE A GROWING FAMILY. WE NEED MORE SPACE. UM, MY CHILDREN ARE GETTING BIGGER. THEY'RE SHARING A ROOM CURRENTLY IN OUR HOUSE IN 3, 2, 2, UH, WHICH FACES 3, 2, 3. UH, WE LOVE LAVACCA, WE LOVE IT. WE LOVE WALKING, WE LOVE, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S HISTORICAL NATURE. WE ARE NO STRANGER TO HISTORICAL. WE HAVE REMODELED 3, 2, 2 AND, AND COMPLY WITH THAT. UM, WE HAVE ADDED ADDITIONS AND COMPLY WITH THAT. AND SO WE'RE NOT ANY STRANGER TO THIS PROCESS. WHAT WE WANT IS TO MAKE THE HOUSE HISTORICAL AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT ALSO MEET OUR GROWING SIZE FAMILY. UM, SO WE WENT FROM A T TO THE L BECAUSE WE, THE, THE, THE T WAS NOT GONNA BE ALLOWED. WE HAVE SEEN SEVERAL HOMES IN THE AREA. 3, 2, 0. REFUGIO RIGHT NEXT TO ME HAS POPPED OUT. JOSH AND NATALIE, UM, UH, ARE, AND AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY ON NATALIE'S THE CHAIR OF THE LOVE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. UM, THEY HAVE AN L IN ON THEIR HOUSE. THEY HAVE AN ADDITION THAT IS, UH, BEING BUILT RIGHT NOW. UH, WE, WE WANT TO GROW, WE WANT TO HAVE ROOM FOR OUR FAMILY, AND WE ARE WILLING TO COMPLY WITH WHAT YOU GUYS SUGGESTED. MAKE THE WINDOWS RIGHT, DO OVER THE ROOF LINES, THE ROOF DECK, MAKE IT ALL, WHATEVER YOU GUYS NEED US TO DO, AS LONG AS WE HAVE A LARGER THREE BEDROOM HOME TO PUT MY CHILDREN IN. AND, UH, DO THE L SO WE HAVE, UM, DO WE HAVE ANY VOICEMAILS? WE DO. AND WE HAVE AN IN-PERSON SPEAKER. SO LET'S HEAR FROM LORETTA HARMON FIRST SINCE SHE SIGNED IN. OKAY. MS. HARMON, IF YOU CAN APPROACH THE MICROPHONE. OKAY. I'M LORETTA HARMON. I'M AROUND THE CORNER FROM THESE FOLKS AND I'M TOTALLY CONFUSED RIGHT NOW BECAUSE LAST TIME I SPOKE TO THE ELEPHANTS, THEY HAD MOVED TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ALAMODOME AND THE TEXT THAT HE SENT OUT REQUESTING THAT WE COME AND SPEAK FOR HIM WAS TO RAISE THE HOUSE. NOW I COULDN'T HEAR EVERYTHING THAT WAS BEING STEADIER, SO I'M NOT SURE IF THAT WAS TABLED [03:30:01] IN THE LAST WEEK TO RAISE THE HOUSE. ONE STORY IN THE BACK, THEY CURRENTLY DO NOT LIVE. THEY LEFT THE HOUSE TO AIRBNB. THE TWO SPACES ON THAT PROPERTY, WE'RE NOW LOOKING TO RAISE THE HOUSE. YEAH, LORETTA. HEY, GOOD AFTERNOON. OKAY. ALRIGHT, WELL, WE'RE NOT, NO, IT'S OKAY. I, I, I SAID I MISUNDERSTOOD BECAUSE THE TEXT THAT I HAVE HERE THAT YOU SENT IS ASKING TO RAISE THE HOUSE, BUILD A ONE STORY ADDITION TO THE BACK OF THE FRONT PORCH IS GREAT. DO IT. GOING TO THE BACK. YES. YES. ONE STORY, SINGLE STORY. OKAY. THANK YOU MI MR. CHAIR. UH, LOOKING AT THE, AT THE, AT THE STAFF, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE, AND THE, THE, THE PLANS THAT ARE BEFORE US, IT, IT, IT SEEMS THAT THIS IS LIKE AT THE PERFECT SPOT FOR IT TO BEGIN A PROCESS WITH THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. IT'S RIGHT THERE AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS APPLICATION, UNLESS IT'S BEEN BEFORE US. BEFORE IT, IT HAS, LET'S PLAY OUR VOICEMAILS BEFORE WE START DISCUSSING. YES, SOME VOICEMAILS. HEY, GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS CHRIS COKER. I OWN, UH, 2 0 9 SADIE STREET, AS WELL AS 3 24 GARFIELD ALLEY. AND I AM CALLING IN REGARDS TO CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 2 DASH 20 ZERO. THE ADDRESS IN QUESTION IS 3 23 GIO STREET. AND, UM, I REALLY JUST WANTED TO CALL IN TO, UH, PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THIS PROJECT. I HAVE SEEN THIS HOUSE PERSONALLY MULTIPLE TIMES, UM, HAVING BEEN DOWN THE, UH, THAT STREET. AND IT IS, IN MY OPINION, NOT ADDING TO, UH, THE BEAUTY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, THIS HOUSE DOES NOT SEEM AS IT SITS HISTORIC IN NATURE. UM, AND IT COULD USE DEFINITELY A REFRESH. SO I THINK THAT THE PROPOSAL, UM, BY THE HOMEOWNER ACTUALLY DOES THAT. UM, IT PROVIDES WHAT SEEMS TO BE A NEED FOR THEM, BUT ALSO, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY FOR THE AESTHETICS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THAT STREET SPECIFICALLY. SO, UM, TAKING A LOOK AT IT, YOU KNOW, HAVING WINDOWS THAT ARE NOT HISTORICAL IN NATURE CURRENTLY, UH, FRONT FACADE, THAT'S JUST A FLAT FACE, NOTHING ATTRACTIVE. IT IS DILAPIDATED. UH, AND YEAH, A MAJORITY OF IT CAN BE RESTORED. HOWEVER, I THINK THERE'S, UM, SOME ADDITION TO THIS HOUSE THAT NEEDS TO BE OBVIOUSLY, UH, WITH HISTORICAL, UH, GUIDELINES, UM, TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. UH, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THE PROPOSAL IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD BE ON BOARD WITH AND I'D BE HAPPY TO SEE AS I DRIVE BY TODAY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND DEFINITELY BE PROUD TO, TO HAVE IT AS A NEIGHBOR. SO, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S MY, MY CONTRIBUTION TO THIS PROPERTY AND THIS HEARING, AND I WISH EVERYONE A BLESSED. THANK. THANK YOU. HELLO, THIS IS BOB KNIGHT. UH, ROBERT KNIGHT. I LIVE AT 3 1 5 FUO IN SAN ANTONIO, AND I AM CALLING REGARDING MY NEIGHBOR, UH, KEVIN AND MONICA ALLISON. THEY HAVE A PRO AN ADDITION PROJECT, UH, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 0 DASH 200, AND IT'S AT 3 2 3 FUGO. UM, THEY'RE PLANNING, UH, UH, AN ADDITION TO THEIR HOME AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO US, UH, VERY CLOSE TO US. UH, THEY'RE A GREAT FAMILY AND THEY'RE A GROWING, GROWING FAMILY. AND, UH, I, THEY NEED THE EXTRA ROOM AND THEY'VE TALKED, TALKED TO US ABOUT THE ADDITION AND DESCRIBED IT AND I'M IN FULL, FULL SUPPORTIVE. UM, SO I HOPE THAT, UH, YOU'LL, UM, UH, APPROVE THEIR PROJECT. AND, UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UH, AGAIN, IT'S BOB KNIGHT AND MY NUMBER IS 5 8 6 5. HI, MY NAME IS MELISSA STEN AND I'M CALLING ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD OF THE LUCA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION REGARDING H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2022 DASH 200 AT ADDRESS 3 2 3 REFUGIO STREET FOR TODAY'S HEARING, THE BOARD SUPPORTS THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF O H P AND THE HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW STAFF IN THIS CASE. THANK YOU. HI, THIS IS SEAN O'NEILL. UH, I LIVE AT 4 3 0 CLAY STREET. I'M [03:35:01] IN FAVOR OF, UH, KEVIN ALLISON'S, UH, ENTIRE PROJECT. CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 0 DASH 2 0 0 AT 3, 2 3, UH, CIO, UH, THEY'RE GOOD FOLKS, GOOD NEIGHBORS, AND THEY HAVE GOOD PLANS, UM, BEAUTIFYING OUR STREETS AND I SUPPORT THEIR CLAIMS. THANKS FOR HEARING ME OUT. THANKS. HI, MY NAME IS KELLY BETH. MY HUSBAND'S NAME IS JOSHUA AND WE LIVE ON IN THE LACA NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE WANTED TO LEAVE A MESSAGE LETTING YOU GUYS KNOW THAT WE ARE IN FAVOR OF KEVIN, UM, ALLISON'S ENTIRE PROJECT. HIS CASE NUMBER IS 2 0 2 0 DASH 200, AND IT IS, UM, LOCATED AT 323 FUO. WE LOVE THESE GUYS. THEY ARE FANTASTIC NEIGHBORS, HAVE A DELIGHTFUL FAMILY, AND EVERYTHING THEY DO IS DONE WITH EXCELLENCE. SO WE ARE IN FAVOR OF SUPPORTING THEM AND WE KNOW THAT THEY WILL MAKE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD EVEN MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN IT ALREADY IS. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. AND, UM, THAT'S IT. THAT CONCLUDES ALL THE VOICEMAILS. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, I BELIEVE I CONCUR WITH COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ THAT WE MAY NEED A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, UM, FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS. BUT ONE QUESTION, MR. MARTINEZ. THERE'S TWO FLOOR PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED. ONE IS, UM, THE ONE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN COMING UP NOW WHERE THE ADDITION IS IN LINE WITH THE SIDEWALLS OF THE HOUSE. AND THEN I BELIEVE THERE WAS A PREVIOUS PLAN THAT, UH, THE ADDITION WAS WIDER THAN THE EXISTING HOUSE. THIS ONE HERE, IT JUST POPPED UP. UM, AND WONDERING WHICH ONE YOU'RE PROPOSING, IS MR. MARTINEZ ONLINE? NOT ANYMORE, NO. HE WASN'T AS A, AS A GREAT CITIZEN OF BEXAR COUNTY. UH, MY, MY ARCHITECT, UM, HAD TO LEAVE LY 'CAUSE HE COULDN'T WAIT LINE FOR FOUR HOURS. UM, BUT, UH, I'LL SPEAK FOR HIM. SO WE WE'RE PRESENTING WITH THE L POP OUT TO, TO THE WEST. WE WANT THAT, THAT ONE 'CAUSE IT GIVES US MORE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND IT KEEPS THE BACKYARD PLAY AREA FOR MY CHILDREN. UM, THE OTHER POSITION IS, UH, IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT YOU GUYS SUGGESTED, KEEPING THE ENVELOPE OF THE HOUSE STRAIGHT BACK, JUST ADDING SQUARE FOOTAGE TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. WE ARE WILLING TO DO THE, THE, WE'RE TRYING, WE'RE ASKING FOR THE L BUT IF YOU WON'T, IF THAT WON'T WORK, I'M WILLING TO CONSIDER THE STRAIGHT BACK. IT'S OBVIOUSLY SMALLER ENVELOPE AND IT EATS MY BACKYARD UP A LITTLE BIT MORE. AND AGAIN, I HAVE CHILDREN AND I LIVE IN LA BACCA AND I WANT 'EM TO PLAY SAFELY IN MY BACKYARD. SO IF I HAVE ANY SELFISH NEED AREAS TO PROVIDE HOMES AND SPACE FOR MY CHILDREN AND GIVE THEM A BIGGER BACKYARD TO PLAY, IT'S VIOLATE THE L OPTION. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. UM, QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ON, UH, YES. I WANNA LET EVERYBODY KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD ONE D R C IN THE PAST, AND SO WHAT I'M ASSUMING, UM, THAT WE'RE SEEING ARE THE RESPONSES TO THAT D R C. THE EARLIER DESIGN, UM, HAD A MUCH LARGER AND MORE OVERWHELMING ADDITION IN THE BACK. UM, AND IT DID PROJECT ON BOTH EAST AND WEST SIDE, SO YOU COULD SEE IT FROM, UM, BOTH SIDES OF THE HOUSE AND THE, AT THE RIGHT OF WAY. UH, ANOTHER CHANGE THAT WAS MADE IS ORIGINALLY THE FRONT SLOPING PART OF THE GABLE ROOF ALSO CONTINUED ON TO ENCLOSE THE FRONT PORCH. AND THERE'S BEEN A CHANGE WHERE THE FRONT PORCH ROOF IS SEPARATE FROM THE MAIN HOUSE ROOF AS IT WOULD'VE BEEN WHEN IT WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT. AND SO THOSE ARE THE PRIMARY CHANGES. UM, I, UM, I APPRECIATE THE REDUCTION OF THE OUTCROPS ON EITHER SIDE, BUT I THINK ONE THING THAT, UM, I DON'T THINK YOUR DECISION OF EITHER OR THIS PLAN OR THAT PLAN IS REALLY THE SOLUTION. UM, IT, THIS MAY REQUIRE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONVERSATION. AND ONE MORE D R C. I THINK WHAT MAKES THE L PLAN NOT FEASIBLE IS BECAUSE THE STYLE AND THE FINISH OF THAT L PLAN WITH A, UM, FLAT ROOF BEHIND A PARAPET IS MORE IN KEEPING WITH A COMMERCIAL BUILDING. AND SO IT REALLY DOES NOT RESPOND TO COMPLIMENT OR IT'S NOT CONGRUENT WITH THE HISTORIC HOUSE. SO THAT, YOU KNOW, I I WOULD IMAGINE THAT IF THE, IF THE L SHAPE WAS [03:40:01] MORE CONFORMING TO THAT VERNACULAR HOUSE, THAT IT MIGHT BE OKAY, BUT WE DON'T KNOW. AND THAT'S WHAT A D R C WOULD BE USEFUL FOR. UM, MY ONLY OTHER CONCERN IS THAT THE ORIGINAL SHED PORTION IN THE BACK THAT IS A DISH THAT IS ORIGINAL, UM, HAS BEEN COMPLETELY OBSCURED AND REMOVED. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES CLOSER LOOK. HI MA'AM. THANK YOU FOR THAT COMMENT. I APPRECIATE YOUR FEEDBACK. UM, THE, THE, THE SHED ROOF, UM, IT'S VERY EVIDENT THAT IT IS ADDED ON BECAUSE OF ALL THE PAINT THAT IS ON THE INTERIOR OF THE WHAT'S EXISTING HERE. IN FACT, IN MY KITCHEN THERE'S EXTERIOR PAINT NEXT TO YOUR SIDING ON MY KITCHEN AND MY BATHROOM WALL. UM, SO THE, THE SHED, THE FIRST SHED THAT STILL EXISTS THERE IN THE SECOND SHED THAT WE HAD MO FOR SAFETY REASONS, UM, UH, IS IS, I, I I'M NOT, I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE. I JUST, I HAVE, I HAVE, WE CAN GO WALK THAT PROPERTY TOGETHER OR SHOW PHOTOS LATER, BUT, UM, I BELIEVE I SUBMITTED THE PHOTOS OF THE, THE COLLAPSING THAT WAS HAPPENING BACK THERE. THE, THE ROOF WAS LITERALLY CAVING IN THE, THAT SHED. SO, BUT YEAH, WE, WE DEFINITELY WANT TO MAKE SURE WE COMPLY. UM, AND UH, I, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WE'RE TRYING TO GET PERMITS TO GO ON THIS BECAUSE HOLDING THIS CO IS COSTING US HARDER MONEY. AND, UM, UH, IN FACT, AS RETTA SAID, WE HAD TO MOVE OUT OF 3, 2, 2 OR FUO TO AFFORD THIS, THIS CHANGING IN OUR, OUR, OUR FINANCES. SO WE, UM, SO WE NOW HAVE A SMALLER HOUSE. AND SO, UM, YEAH, WE WOULD LIKE TO GO FOR THE VARIANCE OF THE L UM, AND, AND REALLY IF WE COULD KEEP THE ORIGINAL ROOF LINE, I GUESS YEAH, WE'D LOVE JUST KEEP IT THROUGHOUT. YEAH, WE LOVE THE 12 FOOT CEILINGS AND THAT, THAT, THAT'S ONE OF THE DRAWS TO THE HISTORICAL AREAS, THE HIGH CEILINGS. AND SO IF YOU, IF WE NEED TO MODIFY THE L ROOF TO HAVE, UH, NOT A FLAT PARAPET, I'M DEFINITELY OKAY WITH THAT. UM, WELL, I JUST WANNA JUST, JUST TO, SO BEFORE WE GO INTO, BEFORE WE PREPARE FOR THE DRC, I JUST WANNA GET SOME QUESTIONS IN MY HEAD ANSWERED HERE OR SURE. ANSWERS QUESTIONS I HAVE IN MY HEAD. THE, THE FOUNDATION IN THE BACK IS ALREADY THERE. SO HOW IS THE FOUNDATION ALREADY THERE? WITHOUT THE, WITHOUT THE PLAN. OKAY. AND THEN, AND THEN THE WINDOWS AND THE DOORS ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE ONES THAT ARE THERE WHERE THO OR HOW LONG HAVE THE WINDOWS AND DOORS BEEN THERE? DID, DID Y'ALL TOUCH ON THAT IN THAT FIRST D R C? NO, THIS IS SOMETHING FROM PREVIOUS OWNERS. NO, BUT WE, WE PURCHASED THE HOUSE, THE DOORS AND THE WINDOWS. WE, ALL WE'VE DONE IS SANDED AND PAINTED AND FIXED THE FOUNDATION. THE FOUNDATION WAS UNLEVEL, I SANDED THE FLOORS IN THE INTERIOR, THE, THE WOODEN FLOORS INTERIOR, AND UH, I HAD TO REPLACE A ROTTEN DECKING. AND THE, THE, THE BACK DECK WAS ACTUALLY ON FOUR BY FOUR POSTS, NOT ON ACTUAL FOUNDATIONS. UH, IT WAS NOT SAFE TO WALK ON THAT DECK, SO I HAD TO REPLACE THOSE FOUNDATION BEAMS AND SUBFLOOR BECAUSE, UH, THERE WAS HOLES IN THE ROOF AND IT WAS NOT SAFE TO LOCK ON. I, LIKE I SAID, I HAVE CHILDREN AND, UM, AND, AND MY WORKERS CAN'T WORK ON THAT. SO, UM, BUT WE DID PULL PERMITS, UH, WE DID PULL PERMITS TO REPLACE THE FOUNDATION. WE DID PULL PERMITS TO, UH, UM, DO WORK ON THE HOUSE, UH, THAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR. SO LET ME ASK STAFF. STAFF. SO BECAUSE THE FOUND BE, BECAUSE THE PLATFORM FOUNDATION WAS THERE ALREADY STAFF, IS THAT WHY A PERMIT WAS ISSUED? BECAUSE IT WAS ALREADY THERE EVEN AS JUST A PLATFORM AS IT IS SHOWN IN THE PICTURE? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT PERMITS BEING ISSUED, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT WORK WAS PRETTY RECENT, LIKE MAYBE IN THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF OR SO WITHOUT APPROVAL. NOT BY THIS CURRENT OWNER. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT RIGHT, BUT BUT WITH THE PLATFORM THERE THAT WE SEE IN THE PICTURE, IS IT AT GRANDFATHERED? NO. OKAY. SO THEN WE HAVE A STARTING POINT FOR THE D R C AT LEAST BY HIT. WELL I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT, SIR. UM, IT WAS PREVIOUSLY ENCLOSED IN THAT SHED ROOF THAT YOU GUYS ARE CALLING HISTORIC. SO IT WOULD'VE, IF IT'S WHICH ONE IS IT, IS IT HISTORIC AND IT WAS INCLUDED, OR IS IT NOT INCLUDED IN IT'S AND IT'S NEW PICTURE THREE. PICTURE NUMBER THREE. YEP. SO THAT WAS ONCE A ENCLOSED, UH, PATIO THAT HAD, AND I HAVE UH, WE HAVE PLENTY OF PROOF OF AND VIDEO PROOF OF I HEAR YOU HAVING HOLES. I UNDERSTAND. NOW I UNDERSTAND IS A PATIO CHAIR, COMMISSIONER GROUP. SO WE GO BY WHAT WAS ON THE SANDBORN MARBLE ORIGINALLY. SO WE CAN, WE DON'T REALLY, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY DID SOMETHING IN THE SEVENTIES OR THE SIXTIES, AND THAT KIND OF OPENS UP FOR YOU MORE OPTIONS AS WELL. SO, UM, I AM, I'M CONCERNED WITH THAT ROOF AS WELL. BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY, YOU KNOW, REASONING TO THINK THAT THAT WAS NOT, THAT [03:45:01] WAS AN ADDITION THAT SLOPED, UH, BECAUSE BOTH OF YOUR DESIGNS, UM, DON'T, DON'T REALLY, UH, THEY ONLY WHAT I WANT, OKAY, FIRST OF ALL, I WANNA SAY, I'M SURE YOU WANT AN APPROVAL TODAY, BUT I, I THINK WE'RE ALL LEANING TOWARDS A D R C. I WOULD ACTUALLY ENTERTAIN A SITE VISIT WITH YOU GUYS SO WE CAN REALLY LOOK AT WHAT'S THAT PORCH, WHAT'S THAT ROOF WILL GO INSIDE, BUT UM, ON THE STIPULATIONS WITH STAFF, AND I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT HAVING YOUR ARCHITECT WORKED ON MANY OPTIONS FOR A FINAL APPROVAL WHEN YOU'RE NOT THERE YET. UM, I MEAN, YOU WOULD NEED A LOT MORE DETAILING, BUT, UM, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S SO MUCH A MATTER OF, OF THE ILL, I THINK IT'S A MATTER OF THE ROOF FORMS THAT YOU HAVE. AND ONCE WE'VE DECIDED ON A ROOF FORM THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE STYLE OR THE HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURE, THEN YOU CAN THEN DECIDE HOW MUCH YOU WANNA GO OUT ON THE SIDES. I THINK I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM THAT MUCH GOING TO ONE SIDE LIKE ON, BUT I WOULD PROBABLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME FENESTRATION OR SOMETHING TO KIND OF LIKE, YOU JUST HAVE A BLANK WALL, RIGHT? SO YOUR DESIGN IS VERY, LIKE, IT STILL NEEDS, THE ARCHITECT REALLY NEEDS TO PUT A LOT MORE DETAILS INTO IT. SO LET'S JUST, UM, IF ANYBODY ELSE WANNA SAY ANYTHING AND UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVEN NEXT TIME THERE'S GOTTA BE A LOT MORE WORK FROM YOUR ARCHITECT FOR EVEN TO GO TO A FINAL APPROVAL BASED ON WHAT YOU SUBMITTED TODAY, JUST SO YOU KNOW THE PROCESS. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU FOR THAT FEEDBACK. UM, AGAIN, UH, I'VE NEVER, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT. UM, I'M JUST AN AIR FORCE OFFICER, SO I APPRECIATE THAT. IS THAT, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WITH THE SITE VISITS, UM, IT COULD BE MADE CLEAR TO OUR ARCHITECT, WE'LL ENSURE THAT HE'S THERE. YEAH. AND WE WOULD LIKE TO GUIDE YOU THROUGH THAT PROCESS. MAYBE AFTER THE SITE WITH SITE VISIT, WE DO ANOTHER D R C INFORMAL ON ZOOM, SEE WHAT YOU'VE COME UP WITH AND THEN BEFORE YOU EVEN COME BACK HERE AGAIN AND SIT FOR FOUR HOURS AND WAIT TO BE HEARD . RIGHT? THEY CAN BE FIRST WHEN THEY RETURN. SO, SO, MR. CHAIR THAT SAID, I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE A, A SITE VISIT FOLLOWED BY A D R C. I'LL SECOND IT. WE HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FISH? AYE. SUBPOENA? AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. UH, MOOKA? AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. GIBBS. AYE. FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO STAFF WILL GET WITH Y'ALL. UH, WE'LL HAVE A SITE D R C HOPEFULLY NEXT WEEK. AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND YOUR SERVICE. MY PLEASURE. THANK YOU ALL AND I APPRECIATE, UH, LORETTA'S, UH, UH, COMING IN PERSON AND KNOW HER TIME'S VALUABLE. AND THANK YOU LORETTA. LORETTA HAS LEFT IS THAT WE ARE MOTION TO ADJOURN. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.