* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:09:10] ALRIGHT, [00:09:11] WE'LL GO AHEAD AND CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. GOOD MORNING COMMITTEE. THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US THIS MORNING. TODAY IS MAY 24TH, 2022. WE ARE AT 8 35. 8 37. UH, TODAY WE'RE HAVING A BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES, APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD, THE ENERGY CODE COMMITTEE MEETING. THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING OF THIS COMMITTEE, AND WE'LL BE DISCUSSING THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE, AS WELL AS PHOTO SOLAR READY REQUIREMENTS FOR BOTH COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL AND EV ELECTRIC VIDEO, UH, VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS, UH, READY REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS. ALL RIGHT. UH, FIRST WE'LL START OFF WITH A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT OUR INTERPRETATION AVAILABILITY. [00:10:22] ALL RIGHT. WE'LL DO A QUICK ROLL CALL FOR QUORUM. ROBERT HENLEY. HERE. GREG MCFARLAND. HERE. MICHAEL RUST. HERE. MARK ROSS. HERE. BRIAN SMITH. HERE. JOE LAOS. JACK UP MOORE. HERE. THANK YOU. WE HAVE QUORUM. UH, SO WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ALTERNATES THAT ARE HERE WITH THE PRIMARY. SO ANY OPEN VOTES WILL GO TO THE PRIMARY FOR THOSE TIMES AS LONG AS THEY'RE STILL HERE. ALL RIGHT. UH, ANY OPEN? WE'LL START WITH PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THIS TIME, ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE HAS ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY? AND JEREMY, IF I CAN JUST CLARIFY FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, THERE'S A TIME HERE FOR YOU TO SPEAK, BUT THIS IS AN INTERACTIVE PROCESS. SO AS THE MEETING GOES ON, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, YOU'LL BE INVITED BACK TO, TO SPEAK AGAIN. SO THIS IS NOT YOUR ONLY SHOT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, MY NAME IS, UH, TERRY BURNS. I'M A FORMER CHAIR OF THE, UH, LOCAL SIERRA CLUB GROUP. AND, UM, I WANTED URGE FULL APPROVAL OF SOLAR READY AND EV READY, UH, STANDARDS FOR NEW RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION. UH, BOTH, UH, SINGLE, UH, FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY. UH, I'VE ATTENDED MANY OF THESE MEETINGS SINCE 2015 AND, UM, UH, URGED THESE TO BE ADOPTED. UH, THEY HAVE BEEN DELAYED FOR VARIOUS REASONS, AND, UH, AS A RESULT, THOUSANDS OF DWELLINGS HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTED OVER THIS TIME WITHOUT THE SMALL ADDED COSTS OF THESE STANDARDS. IN CONSEQUENCE, THE RESIDENTS AND BUYERS OF THESE UNITS ARE DEPRIVED OF THE LARGE COST SAVINGS TO BE HAD FROM SOLAR ENERGY AND ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND NOW ARE FORCED TO PAY $4 A GALLON FOR THE GASOLINE COMMUTES. THEIR OTHER CHOICE IS TO SPEND TWO TO FOUR TIMES ORIGINAL COST TO ADD SOLAR EV CAP CAPABILITIES AFTER CONSTRUCTION. UH, THE CLIMATE CRISIS IS REAL AND HIGH GAS PRICES ARE HERE TO STAY. OUR OZONE IS NOW IN MODERATE NON-ATTAINMENT, IN SUBSTANTIAL PART DUE TO OUR TRANSPORTATION EMISSIONS. ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE PROLIFERATING AND COST PRO COMPETITIVE, AND IT IS TIME FOR US TO PLAN FOR THE FUTURE AND STOP PROTECTING THE PAST. SO I URGE YOU TO, UH, MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE, UH, AS AMBITIOUSLY AND, UH, AS EXTENSIVELY AS POSSIBLE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. ANY OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC FOR TO, TO SPEAK? OKAY. OKAY. UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE IS TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THIS COMMITTEE'S MEETING ON MAY 10TH, 2022. EVERYBODY HAVE A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MEETINGS? I ACCEPT A MOTION TO APPROVE THEM. ROBERT HANLEY MOVE APPROVAL. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. AARON SMITH. THANK YOU. ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MINUTES? ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES. SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. ANY ABSTENTIONS. WE HAVE MINUTES APPROVED. ITEM NUMBER TWO, PLEASE. PERFECT. THANK YOU. AND I HAVE BRIAN SMITH AS THE SECOND. I'M MOSTLY PUTTING THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO THESE MEETING MINUTES FROM THIS SOMETIMES. AND SO, ALRIGHT, UH, NEXT ONE IS WE, UH, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMITTEE TO ADD ANY ADDITIONAL BOARD MEMBERS, UH, TO THIS COMMITTEE. WE DO HAVE, UH, RON COLBERTSON, WHO WAS, UH, REQUESTED, UH, TO BE ADDED TO IT. SO I INVITED HIM TO THIS MEETING. HE'S CURRENTLY HERE RIGHT NOW. SO IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT MOTION. UH, Y'ALL DO HAVE, CURRENTLY WE HAVE FIVE POSITIONS OF THE SEVEN FIELD. I'D ACCEPT THE MOTION TO ADD HIM TO THE COMMITTEE. MOVED ROBERT. SECOND. BRIAN SMITH. ANY DISCUSSION OTHER THAN CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR? ALL RIGHT. UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT. WELCOME TO THE COMMITTEE HERE. ALL RIGHT. AND JUST FOR QUORUM PURPOSES, LA VERSON, UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE HERE FOR QUORUM AS WELL. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, LAN. AND SO WHAT, WHAT POSITION YEAH. IS IT IS A PRIMARY, UH, HE'S, UH, YOUR ALTERNATE ELECTRICAL ENGINEER FOR THE THANK YOU. BUT HE WILL BE A VOTING MEMBER OF THIS COMMITTEE. HE WILL CORRECT. HE'S PRIMARY FOR THIS COMMITTEE. ALTERNATE FOR THE, FOR THE BOARD. OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UM, SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE IS TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION OF THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE AND PROPOSED CHANGES TO THE CURRENT AMENDMENTS THAT WE'VE SUBMITTED TO THE FULL BOARD FOR REVIEW. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO ASSISTANT DIRECTOR CRYSTAL GONZALEZ. CRYSTAL, BEFORE YOU START, I'LL JUST BRIEFLY COME YOU REAL BRIEFLY, BUT WE CHATTED ABOUT BEFOREHAND. THERE'S, UH, SIX ITEMS TABLED PREVIOUSLY THAT WE'RE GONNA REVIEW FIRST, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO TO THE NEW ITEMS TO REVIEW. SO THAT'LL START WITH ITEM 23, UM, WHICH IS, UH, C 4 0 5 [00:15:01] 0.2 0.8, UH, PARKING GARAGE LIGHT CONTROL. UH, CORRECT. CHAIRMAN, THIS, THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY. I THOUGHT WE TABLED 22 ALSO. I WROTE IT. NO, NO, YOU'RE CORRECT. WE DID. I, I READ MY LIST ON, SO WE'LL START WITH 22. THANK YOU. ROBERT. C C 4 0 5 7 3 LIGHTING SETBACK, CRYSTAL. OKAY. ITEM ITEM 22 WAS ONE. THAT ITEM 22 AND 22 ARE VERY SIMILAR ONES THAT WE HAD TABLED, UH, REQUESTING, UM, INPUT FROM BOMA. I DON'T KNOW IF, UM, DARREN, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK NOW, OR, AND WE ALSO HAVE SOME, UM, UH, EMAIL DOCUMENTATION THAT WE CAN SHARE, UH, AFTERWARDS. HERE WE GO. HOW'S THAT? I'M, HI, MY NAME'S D MUIR. I'M WITH BOMA SAN ANTONIO. UH, I'VE BEEN 30 YEARS IN THE, UH, COMMERCIAL MANAGEMENT INDUSTRY, RUNNING OFFICE BUILDINGS IN THIS TOWN AND EVERYTHING FROM THE MARATHON BUILDING TO SOME RETAIL CENTERS. UM, AUTUMN'S 22 AND 23, UH, THEIR SAFETY ISSUE FOR US, YOU KNOW, OUR CLIENTS, OUR TENANTS, THEIR GUESTS, THEY, THEY WANNA SEE WELL-LIT PLACES GIVEN THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE IN. YOU KNOW, UH, SAFETY IS ALWAYS A FACTOR IN SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T INVITED COME WANDERING INTO OUR GARAGES, SO WE'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THERE AT ALL TIMES. UNDERSTAND REDUCING LIGHTING IS A NEED, ESPECIALLY DAY LIGHTING. UM, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S ALSO A COST INVOLVED AND BECOMES A SOPHISTICATION ISSUE WITHIN THE BUILDING OPERATING SYSTEM. SO, CAN YOU STAY AT THE, I HAVE A COUPLE OF, YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HAVING A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE LIKE, DAYLIGHT SENSORS, BECAUSE THAT WHEN IT'S LIT OUTSIDE, THE LIGHTS GO OFF REGARDLESS. SO ON A NEW BUILDING, I THINK YOU CAN EASILY INSTALL IT ON AN OLDER BUILDING. IT'LL BE COMPLICATED. YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD ALMOST GO HAVE TO GO TO BUILDING LIGHTING SENSORS THAT ARE UNIQUE TO EACH INDIVIDUAL LIGHT BECAUSE OF HOW THEY'RE WIRED. UH, TAKE THE PYRAMID BUILDING, FOR INSTANCE. THIS IS ONLY FOR NEW. OKAY. SO, SO FOR NEW, I WOULD SAY, I WOULD SAY, SURE, YOU SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA SENSOR IT AND, AND CURB IT TO A POINT, RIGHT? BUT AGAIN, I WAS READING THROUGH HERE, THERE'S ALSO A LIGHT LEVEL THAT'S REQUIRED NO MATTER WHAT. SO IF YOU CAN GET, IF YOU'VE GOT AN OPEN ACCESS BUILDING OR A PARKING GARAGE, UH, TAKE LEXUS'S NEW BUILDING, UH, PARKING GARAGE OUT THERE, FIVE, SIX STORIES YOU CAN SEE THROUGH IT ALL, ALL DAY LONG. YOU DON'T NEED A WHOLE LOT OF LIGHTS ON THERE. IT DOESN'T, DOESN'T, I DON'T THINK IT HAS A BIG LIGHT REQUIREMENT, BUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD ABSOLUTELY HAVE DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TO IT. WELL, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE LIGHTS BEING OFF WHEN IT'S LIGHT OUTSIDE, CORRECT. AS YES AND NO. YOU MAY, YOU MAY LOOK AT IT, IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION OF THE BUILDING. THERE MAY BE LIGHT AREAS AND DARK AREAS THAT STILL NEED TO BE LIT, AS LONG AS THOSE AREAS THAT ARE IN THE SHADOWS ARE ALWAYS LIT. I, WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. BRIAN SMITH, AND THIS ACTUALLY STATES THAT IT'S THE LIGHT'S, NOT THAT THEY'RE GOING OFF, THEY'RE JUST GONNA BE 50% OF THEIR VOLUME. CORRECT. BUT YOU ALSO CREATE A MAINTENANCE ISSUE, RIGHT? SO EVERY TIME YOU PUT ANOTHER MODULE IN THERE, YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR FAILURE IN A BUILDING. I, I'M A BUILDER. MOST, MOST OF THE TIME THESE DAYLIGHT'S NOT AN ISSUE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE. BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT DAYLIGHT. I'VE BEEN 30 YEARS. I CAN TELL YOU HOW MANY PARKING LOT LIGHTS, SENSORS I REPLACED OVER THE YEARS. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW. RIGHT. WELL, I ALSO LOOK AT THE ASPECT THAT ALMOST ALL NEW, ALL THOSE LIGHTINGS THAT ARE GOING IN THAT GARAGE, L E D, RIGHT? MM-HMM. . SO WHAT'S THE REAL, REAL COST OF, OF SAVINGS ON THIS? JUST MULTIPLY 10. BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT DAYLIGHT SENSORS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SENSORS THAT AT NIGHT ARE MOTION THAT FULLY POWER THE LIGHT OR REDUCE THE POWER OF 50%. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE DAYLIGHT. DAYLIGHT. SO DAYLIGHT. IF YOU'RE GONNA MOTION DAYLIGHT, IF YOU'RE GONNA MOTION A BUILDING OFF AT NIGHT, I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT. I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT. I DON'T RE THAT. THAT'S, THAT'S A PURE SAFETY ISSUE. I, I'M GOOD WITH THAT. I JUST, I WANTED TO CLARIFY, BUT THE, THE DAYLIGHT ISSUE, I, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US HAVE AN ISSUE OF THAT, BUT YEAH, NO, MOTIONING 'EM ALL, ALL OFF DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYBODY IN THE ART INDUSTRY. WELL, YEAH. 'CAUSE THE ITEM 22 SAYS DAYLIGHT OR MOTION, RIGHT? DAYLIGHT SENSORS OR MOTION. SO, SIR, JUST TO BE CLEAR, ARE ARE YOU RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OR NOT APPROVAL OF ITEMS 22 AND 23? YOU KNOW, I HONESTLY, I'D RECOMMEND APPROVAL, BUT I LIKE IT TO BE MODIFIED SO THAT IT'S VERY CLEAR IN WHAT, SO, SO THAT WE'RE TALKING STRICTLY ABOUT DAYLIGHT AND NOT, NOT SHUTTING THOSE LIGHTS OFF OR HAVING A MOTION MOTION [00:20:01] AT NIGHTTIME AND AT NIGHT, YOU WANT 'EM TO BE AT A HUNDRED PERCENT POWER TO PROVIDE SECURITY. NO, YOU NEED TO BE, YOU NEED TO BE WELL LIT FOR A SAFETY FACTOR. RIGHT. NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SO AT NIGHT WANT 'EM ON, YOU WANT 'EM ON ALL THE TIME BECAUSE WE WANT 'EM ON. YEAH. AND, AND I WOULD SAY TO THEM, GOTTA, THE FAMILY INDUSTRY WANTS THE SAME THING. WE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT WORK LATE. WE HAVE SOME PEOPLE THAT WORK RIDICULOUS HOURS. WE ALSO HAVE GUARDS THAT ARE GONNA WALK THOSE BUILDINGS IN. IN MOST CASES, WE, THEIR SAFETY IS OUR FIRST CONCERN IN THIS TOWN. HOMELESS ACTIVITY HAS, HAS GAINED TRACTION. I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY TIMES I'VE HAD TO HAUL PEOPLE OUT OF BUILDINGS LATELY, AND THAT IS WHY WE WANT THE LIGHTS ON FOR THE MOST PART. SO, SO BASICALLY FOR ITEM 22, YOU'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE ALTER IT, SO IT, UH, ELIMINATES THE MOTION SENSOR 23 IS STRICTLY THE OCCUPANT SENSORS, UH, IN PARKING GARAGES. AND SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE RECOMMENDING AGAINST APPROVAL OF THAT? CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? YEAH, THIS IS ROBERT HELEY. SO ALLS WE'RE GOING TO DO IS, IN THAT LANGUAGE, CHAIRMAN, IS DELETE WHERE IT SAYS REDUCED BY AT LEAST 50% BY DAYLIGHT SENSORS, PERIOD OR MOTION IS, THAT'S WHAT'S I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU ASKED. ARE YOU LOOKING AT 22 ROBERT OR 23? WELL, I, I WAS GONNA THROW IN AS A, AS AN IN FAVOR OF KEEPING IT, I'VE DONE THIS IN, IN MULTIPLE JURISDICTIONS. UM, I, I'LL TELL YOU, IT GETS AS CRAZY AS IN PLACES LIKE FLORIDA WHERE WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH TURTLE LIGHTS, WHERE YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO SHUT EVERYTHING OFF SO YOU DON'T ATTRACT TURTLES. AND AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE'S NOT BEEN A HUGE SAFETY ISSUE WITH IT. WE'VE DONE 50% MOTION SENSORS AND BIG WAREHOUSES, AND ADMITTED IT'S BEEN WAREHOUSES AND SEEN SIGNIFICANT ENERGY SAVINGS ON THOSE WITH L E D FIXTURES. UM, I, I'LL, I'LL AGREE WITH THE WAY THAT I'VE DONE ALL OF THEM. IT ENDS UP WITH USUALLY A MOTION SENSOR IN EACH INDIVIDUAL LIGHT FIXTURE. SO THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A MAINTENANCE HEADACHE THAT GOES WITH THAT. BUT WE, TH THIS IS A, A THING ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT'S, THAT'S A FAIRLY STANDARD PRACTICE. AND WE'RE NOT HEARING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE RAPES AND THE MURDERS BEING DRIVEN. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE GOING COMPLETELY DARK, I THINK WE'D, WE'D SEE A, A BIG DRIVE IN THAT. UM, BUT SINCE WE'RE ONLY CUTTING LIGHTING LEVELS TO HALF, IT'S, IT'S USUALLY JUST NOT AN ISSUE. YOU'RE, IT, IT, INSTEAD OF BEING, IT'S ONE OF THOSE ONES THAT'D BE, I MEAN, TURN OFF HALF THE LIGHTS IN THIS ROOM AND EVERYBODY WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON. YOU JUST, IT'S NOT THERE. YEAH. BUT IT, IT, THE DANGER IS, IS THAT WHEN SOMETHING BAD DOES HAPPEN AND THE PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEYS SHOW UP WITH A LIGHT METER AND YOUR LIGHTS ARE DIMM AND SOMEBODY SAYS, OKAY, IT'S INSUFFICIENT LIGHTING, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS WE'RE JUST GONNA DOUBLE THE LIGHT. IF THIS IS THERE, WE WOULD JUST DOUBLE THE WATTAGE. WELL, IF YOU HAVE PEOPLE WALKING, THE LIGHTS ARE GONNA TURN ON, IT'LL GO TO LIGHTS. I, I UNDERSTAND. BUT, BUT WHEN SOMEBODY'S LURKING BEHIND A CAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WELL, A CERTAIN, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, IT'LL HELP THIS. BECAUSE IF SOMEBODY'S LURKING BEHIND A CAR, UNLESS THEY'RE STANDING THERE FOR 15 MINUTES NOT MOVING IT, THAT'S WHEN IT'LL GET DARK. IF SOMEBODY'S LURKING BEHIND A CAR, IT'S GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA BE WALKING THROUGH A PARKING GARAGE AND GO, THERE'S ONE LIGHT THAT JUST HAPPENS TO BE BRIGHT. IF IT'S WIRED WITH INDIVIDUAL SENSORS, THERE'S GONNA BE ONE LIGHT THAT'S OVER THERE BRIGHT, AND YOU'RE GONNA, YOUR EYES ARE GONNA BE NATURALLY DRIVEN TO IT. WHY IS IT BRIGHT OVER THERE AS OPPOSED TO EVERYTHING ELSE BEING MODERATE? YEAH. AS AN OPERATOR, I WOULD JUST DISAGREE WITH YOU. YEAH, YEAH. UH, THIS ROBERT HENLEY, UH, MARK, UH, THE STANDARD OF CARE IN ANY DEFENSE OF THAT IS WHAT ARE THE CODES REQUIRE? AND SO I DON'T CARE WHAT, YES, OKAY, I'M NOT GONNA GET INTO IT, MARK. BUT THE POINT BEING IS, IS THAT YES, THERE'S A STANDARD OF CARE, BUT YOU CAN GET TWO ATTORNEYS, THE PLAINTIFFS AND THE DEFENSE, AND YOU CAN ARGUE WHATEVER YOU WANT. BUT TRADITIONALLY, HISTORICAL DOCUMENTATION IS A STANDARD OF CARE, WHICH IS DEFENSIBLE, IS WHAT IS THE CODE REQUIRE. SO LET'S, UH, MAYBE GET BACK TO 22 IN, ITS, IN ITS WRITTEN FORM. UM, CRYSTAL, IN THIS SUMMARY, IT TALKS ABOUT REDUCED BY AT LEAST 50% BY DAYLIGHT SENSORS OR MOTION. I'VE READ THROUGH C 4 0 5 2 73. IT REFERENCES C 4 0 5 2 72. UM, AND IT TALKS ABOUT BEFORE AND AFTER DAY OR AFTER BUSINESS HOURS. BUT I DON'T SEE WHERE IT'S, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I'M, I'M READING FAST. UM, I DON'T SEE WHERE IT SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT DAYLIGHT SENSOR SPECIFICALLY. WHAT AM I MISSING? YOU'RE RIGHT. IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY TALK ABOUT DAYLIGHT SENSORS. IT DOES TALK ABOUT THAT, UM, MIDNIGHT TO 6:00 AM OR NO LATER THAN ONE HOUR, HOUR AFTER BUSINESS CLOSING. SO, UM, MAYBE [00:25:01] WE JUST SUMMARIZE THAT, UH, INCORRECTLY, UH, SPEAKING TO DAYLIGHT SENSORS SPECIFICALLY, BECAUSE IN THAT CASE, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THESE SENSORS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT INVOLVED HERE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TIMERS. UM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MANUAL SYSTEMS, IF NOT TIMERS. IT'S NOT JUST A, A DAYLIGHT SENSOR. I'M NOT, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE PEDANTIC HERE. I JUST, I WANNA BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE THE COST ASSOCIATED WITH THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN, YOU KNOW, PAYING A FEW EXTRA DOLLARS FOR A LIGHT FIXTURE, WHICH I WOULD SUBMIT IS, IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S ONE THING. THE OTHER THING I'LL SAY IS THIS, YOU KNOW, UM, AS A BUSINESS OWNER, WE PLAYED WITH THESE LIGHTS THAT DIMM, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE'S NO, NO, WHEN THERE'S NO ACTION, NOT ON A TIMER, JUST THE ONES THAT, YOU KNOW, IN, IN, IN CARPORTS AND EVERYTHING. UM, BECAUSE AS THE PEOPLE PAYING THE ELECTRIC BILL, WE HAD EVERY INCENTIVE TO TRY AND MANAGE OUR ELECTRIC COST. AND WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT, UM, THE LIGHTS NOT WORKING, OR THE COST OF INSTALLING THEM WAS NOT WORTH THE SAVINGS. UM, AND YOU KNOW, I, I THINK, AND I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT UNLIKE OTHER PORTIONS OF THE CODE THAT WE TALK ABOUT, THIS IS STRICTLY ALMOST ALL ASPIRATIONAL STUFF. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BUILD A SAFE BUILDING THAT DOESN'T HAVE A, THIS KIND OF SENSOR TO IT. UM, AND I THINK THAT WE, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE'S A STRONG MARKET INCENTIVE TO BUY THESE THINGS IF THEY'RE WORTH HAVING. UM, AND THE, THE MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS AFTER INSTALLATION IS NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY OR DISCARDED BY THIS BOARD BECAUSE, UH, I CAN TELL YOU MOST OF THE TIME IF THAT BREAKS, YOU'RE JUST GONNA PUT A, A, A REGULAR LIGHT FIXTURE BACK IN. I MEAN, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT GONNA GET REPLACED. AND THESE THINGS, ANYBODY THAT SPENT FIVE MINUTES FIGHTING WITH A PAPER TOWEL DISPENSER KNOWS THAT THESE SENSORS DON'T, UM, DON'T ALWAYS WORK THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. SO, UM, WORTH, WORTH CONSIDERING. I THINK I ALSO SHARED AN EMAIL THAT, UM, THAT JASON SHARED WITH US REGARDING THESE TWO SECTIONS. YOU CAN SEE, UM, WHO THIS EMAIL CAME FROM, UH, WITH JUST A LITTLE MORE ANOTHER OPINION, A LITTLE MORE INSIGHT ON THESE TWO SECTIONS. WE'RE SPEAKING ABOUT CRYSTAL. UH, THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY. LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. UH, WHEN WE HAVE THESE, UH, ISSUES, DO YOU COMPARE WHAT OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ARE DOING? AND DO YOU HAVE ANY IN INSIGHT OR DATA ON THAT? I DO. WE USUALLY DO. YES. ROBERT, A LOT OF FOLKS HAVE NOT ADOPTED THE 2020 ONES YET. I KNOW THAT AUSTIN HAS ADOPTED THE 2021 ENERGY CODE. I DID NOT SPECIFICALLY LOOK TO SEE IF THEY AMENDED OR ADOPTED THESE SECTIONS AS IS. UM, I'M NOT SURE IF ANYBODY ELSE DID OR, OR IF JASON, YOU DON'T KNOW OFFHAND, BUT WE CAN DEFINITELY LOOK AT THAT IN THE NEXT FEW MINUTES. PLANO AND AUSTIN, BOTH JASON VANDIVER, SPEAR PLANO AND AUSTIN BOTH LEFT THESE AS IS. THANK YOU. ISN'T, UH, ISN'T THERE SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR NOT DOING IT, WHAT AUSTIN DOES CONSIDERING THAT RELATIVE COST OF LIVING MOTION ? WELL, ACTUALLY, NO. I MEAN, YOU CAN, THERE'S DATA ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING BETWEEN OUR TWO CITIES, AND I THINK THAT THAT IS SOMETHING I CONSIDER. WELL, I, I WAS JUST GOING TO ON, ON A PIECE OF THAT, 'CAUSE I KNOW PEOPLE HAVE ASKED OTHER QUESTIONS, BOTH IN THIS MEETING AND THE PREVIOUS MEETING. UM, I DID A, A TRAINING SEMINAR ON, I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY I E I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS, I E C C IN 2013, OR ACTUALLY 90.1 2013. AND, UH, THAT WAS A PIECE. THEY TYPICALLY, WHAT WE LEARNED IN THAT ONE IS FOR STUFF TO BE ADOPTED WHEN THEY MODEL IT, IT'S NOT REAL WORLD. SO I'LL ADMIT THAT IT'S TYPICALLY SOMETHING LIKE THEY'RE LOOKING TO INCORPORATE, I THINK IT WAS AROUND A SEVEN TO 10 YEAR PAYBACK. SO THAT'S WHERE THEIR MODELS WERE SHOWING, AND THAT'S ONE OF THEIR THRESHOLDS FOR ADOPTING INTO CODE. AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THEY WERE LOOKING AT IT. SO I KNOW PEOPLE HAD ASKED THAT QUESTION. THAT'S JUST A LITTLE PIECE THAT WE GOT OUT OF THAT TRAINING SESSION SEVERAL YEARS AGO. WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN ALL THESE, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF ENGINEERS HAWK, SO I'LL, I'LL, I'LL THROW SOME ECON ECONOMICS TALK AND, YOU KNOW, UM, WE TALK ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, EVERYTHING BEING EQUAL WHEN MAKING ECONOMICS MODELS. BUT OF COURSE, IN THE REAL WORLD, NOTHING IS, ALL THINGS ARE NEVER EQUAL. YOU KNOW, ET IS NEVER PARA US. SO JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER ABOUT THOSE MODELS. THEY'RE, THEY'RE WORTH WHAT THEY'RE WORTH TO, TO GET THE BID. AND, AND I WOULD AGREE, BRIAN SMITH WOULD BE, ESPECIALLY WITH THOSE MODELS, ALL THEY'RE DOING IS A, A QUICK ENERGY TYPE OF THING. THEY'RE NOT PUTTING IN THE TIME, IF ANYTHING WENT OUT AS FAR AS OVER THAT SEVEN YEARS, THE TIME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A FIXTURE GOING OUT, THE TIME IT TOOK TO CHECK IT. ALL THOSE DIFFERENT THAT ARE REAL WORLD COSTS THAT DO CHANGE, THAT R O I. ALL RIGHT. SO HERE WE ARE AT AN IMPASSE, NOT REALLY AN IMPASSE. SO WE HAVE, UM, I THINK WE HAVE A CONSENSUS, THOUGH, AT LEAST AS FAR AS, UH, JUST CHANGING THE MOTION AND DOING A DAYLIGHT. I THINK WE CAN HAVE ENOUGH. YEAH, [00:30:01] BUT THERE'S NO DAYLIGHT IN THIS. YEAH, BUT IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN AS DAYLIGHT. SO WE'D HAVE, WE'D HAVE TO SEND IT BACK TO, SO IS IT JUST TIMERS RIGHT NOW? IS THAT, HOW IS THAT, HOW WELL, IT DOESN'T SPECIFY SO TIMER. I WOULD, YEAH, IT DOESN'T SPECIFY THE METHOD. IT'S JUST BASICALLY TIMES WHEN IT HAS TO REDUCE. OKAY. OR, OR SITUATIONS WHERE IT HAS TO REDUCE. WELL, JUST, JUST TO KEEP US MOVING ON, I'M JUST GONNA DO THIS 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA SPLIT ON THIS, IS I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ADOPT AS WRITTEN ROBERT HANLEY. SECOND. OKAY. SO THERE'S A MOTION TO ADOPT 22 AS WRITTEN AND A SECOND, UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE, FROM THIS COMMITTEE? ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. NO LONELY VOICE. OKAY. SO 22 IS ADOPTED AS WRITTEN. WE'LL MOVE ON TO 23. UH, 23 IS THE PARKING GARAGE CONTROL. IF YOU TURN THE PAGE, YOU'LL SEE IT ON C O FOUR C 4 0 5 2 8. I MEAN, WE'VE BASICALLY DISCUSSED THIS ALREADY. SO DO YOU WANNA, I MEAN, IS IT, IF, IF WE DO A VOTE, IT'S GONNA GO THE SAME WAY? ARE WE BASICALLY CONSENSUS THAT WE'RE GONNA APPROVE THIS ONE AS WRITTEN? IT'S THE SAME. UH, SO MOVED. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL DO THIS OFFICIALLY. I HAVE A MOTION FROM ROBERT. I'LL SECOND GREG MCFARLAND. THANK YOU, GREG. A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. NO. OKAY. SO 23 IS APPROVED AS WRITTEN. WE'LL MOVE TO 29. IS THAT CORRECT, CRYSTAL? YES, THAT'S CORRECT. AND WE ALSO HAVE AN EMAIL, UH, JASON SHARED WITH US REGARDING THIS SECTION. I'LL PULL THAT UP. JASON. VANDIVER, SPEER. UM, MR. MCFARLAND MENTIONED 90.1 EARLIER. THIS HAS BEEN IN 90.1 SINCE 2010. AND THAT SAME COST EFFECT, COST EFFECTIVENESS METRIC HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR 12 YEARS ALREADY. SO WHAT DOES THIS SYSTEM COST AND ON THE BUILDING? YEAH, I MEAN, IF YOU DO A TIMER THAT JUST SHUTS IT OFF AT 1159 AND TURNS IT ON AT 6 0 1, IT'S RELATIVELY CHEAP. IT TO, TO SHED 50% OF YOUR LIGHTING, YOU KNOW. NO, WE'RE ON. OH, YOU'RE MOVING TO THE NEXT ONE. I THOUGHT YOU'RE GOING BACKWARDS. SORRY. NO, WHAT IS THAT KIND OF SYSTEM? WHAT IS THE RANGE OF COST? JASON SAID, UH, MARK THAT IT DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING. CAN, LET ME ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION. THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY. IF THIS HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS FOR 12 YEARS, WHAT IS THE CHANGE HERE THAT WE'RE APPROVING? IT GOT BROUGHT INTO THE I E C C. SO IT'S BEEN IN ASHRA 90.1 SINCE 2010, WHICH ASHRA 90.1 IS A COMPLIANCE PATH IN THE I E C C, BUT IT'S NOT THE MANDATORY PATH. IT'S ONE OF THREE OPTIONS. SO HOW MANY BUILDINGS HAVE IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO HAVE BEEN INSTALLING THIS, I GUESS IS A QUESTION TO JUST ASK, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT IS STANDARD ON THE INSTALL OR IS THIS TO, TO GET A GOLD STAR FROM THE ENERGY RAIDERS? THAT, THAT, I'M NOT SURE, SINCE WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR IT. DEAR MU, SO THE ISSUE I HAVE WITH THIS PRO, THIS SYSTEM TO IS YOU'RE TRYING TO COMPARE A 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING TO A 200,000, A 500,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT ANIMALS. THE 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING IS GONNA HAVE, IS NOT GONNA BE AS SOPHISTICATED AS A HUNDRED THOUSAND PLUS SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. SO TO ME, THE BIGGEST PIECE OF THIS ONE IS YOU, YOU NEED TO MODIFY FROM 25 TO EITHER 50 OR A HUNDRED. I ALSO SIT ON THE, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE BENCHMARKING WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, WHICH IS GONNA BE REQUIRING BUILDINGS TO START UPLOADING THEIR ENERGY USE INTO, INTO A SYSTEM HERE SO THAT THEY CAN COMPARE THEIR BUILDINGS TO OTHER BUILDINGS. UM, THERE'S A LITTLE BATTLE OVER WHAT, HOW MUCH OF THAT INFORMATION WILL BE GOING ON, UM, WHICH WILL BE CONTINUED FOR A COUPLE MORE MONTHS. BUT, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, UM, YOU TAKE A, A LARGER BUILDING, IT'S GOT A BUILDING AUTOMATED SYSTEM, YOU CAN CONTROL EVERYTHING. YOU CAN MONITOR EVERYTHING, ESPECIALLY A NEWER ONE. THE, THE SOPHISTICATION OF TECHNOLOGY IS GROWN, BUT A 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING ISN'T GONNA AFFORD THAT SAME SOPHISTICATION IN IT, IS WHAT I WOULD TELL YOU. THE OTHER THING IS, THERE'S SOME CATCHALLS IN HERE. WE'RE GONNA MONITOR ELEVATOR ELECTRICITY. IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE LOWEST CONSUMING THINGS IN THE BUILDING. I MEAN, YOUR AIR CONDITIONING IS PROBABLY 80% OF YOUR USE. SO WE, WE, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON WHAT ARE THE ENERGY HOGS AND NOT ON NITPICKING AND TRYING TO MONITOR EVERY LITTLE THING. IF YOU'RE GONNA MONITOR EVERY LITTLE THING, WELL JUST [00:35:01] MONITOR THE WHOLE BUILDING. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF OUR ARGUMENTS ON THIS, THIS SYSTEM THAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE. 'CAUSE IT BREAKS IT DOWN INTO LIKE FOUR TRANCHES, RIGHT? H V A C LIGHTING. THERE'S A CATCH ALL AT THE BOTTOM. I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED. SIX, SIX, INTERIOR LIGHTING, EXTERIOR LIGHTING, PLUG LOADS, PROCESS LOADS, BUILDING OPERATIONS, H V A C, EVERYTHING AROUND THE BUILDING, RIGHT? THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S AN OVERLOAD. IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT, YOU GOT AN ELECTRIC METER, YOU CAN MONITOR IT. YOU RIGHT? THAT'S AS SIMPLE AS IT GETS, GETS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT, IF YOU WANNA RUN A BUILDING LIKE THAT, THAT'S, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF COMPONENTS TO BE ADDED TO A BUILDING, MORE MAINTENANCE, MORE SOPHISTICATION. YOU KNOW, ENGINEERS GEN GENERALLY ARE RUNNING THESE SYSTEMS. THEY'RE ALL GONNA BE TRAINED IN, IN, IN THESE THINGS. SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT. YOU WANNA COMPARE TO AUSTIN, WHICH I HATE TO DO. I RUN AUSTIN ASSETS IN AUSTIN. ALSO, THE LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION OF OUR ENGINEERING TEAM IN SAN ANTONIO IS NOT THAT OF OTHER BIGGER, BIGGER CITIES BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE PRODUCT HERE TO EVOLVE THOSE GUYS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T HAVE SOME SHARP PEOPLE. I'M NOT TRYING TO DISCOUNT THEM AT ALL. I MEAN, I'VE WORKED WITH A VERY COUPLE OF VERY SOPHISTICATED, BUT YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND WHERE WE'RE AT IN SAN ANTONIO. MOST OF OUR BUILDINGS ARE 30 OR 40 YEARS OLD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. SO I KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW ONES. SO CRYSTAL, WOULD THIS APPLY TO A BUILDING, LET'S SAY THAT'S A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET. THAT'S A RETAIL BUILDING THAT'S SPLIT INTO 10,000 SQUARE FOOT SPACES. SO SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE TO MONITOR EACH ONE? YES. THAT, THAT'S HOW I'M INTERPRETING THIS SECTION. WELL, I KNOW IT, WE, WE, WE MAY JUST WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT. 'CAUSE I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON A, ON A RETAIL TENANT. YES. WHERE I'VE DONE THE BIG STUFF LIKE THAT. IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE, IN A LOT OF THE TIMES THE INDIVIDUAL TENANTS HAVE THEIR OWN ELECTRICAL METER. BUT I WOULD THINK WE'D WANT TO LOOK AT THIS JUST TO MAYBE TAMP THAT DOWN AS IT'S THE INDIVIDUAL TENANT HAS TO EXCEED 25,000 SQUARE FOOT. SO IF YOU HAD A, A NORTH STAR MALL, IT WOULD BE YOUR ANCHOR STORES WOULD BE TO GET THIS. NOT THE INDIVIDUAL TENANTS. I'M SO SORRY. UM, SOME CLARIFICATION. THERE IS AN EXCEPTION THERE THAT OUR TWO OCCUPANCIES AND INDIVIDUAL TENANT SPACES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH THIS SECTION PROVIDED THAT THE SPACE HAS ITS OWN UTILITY SERVICES AND METER AND HAS LESS THAN 5,000 SQUARE FEET. SO THE ANSWER WOULD BE, IN MY EXAMPLE, THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE THEY'RE OVER 10. THEY'RE OVER 5,000 SQUARE FEET. IF THEY'RE OVER 5,000. YES. UM, CRYSTAL, ACTUALLY ON ON PAGE C 4 75, IT SAYS, UH, HAVING A FLURRY OF NOT GREATER THAN 2,500. SO ARE WE PROPOSING TO CHANGE THAT TO 5,000? NO. RIGHT AFTER THAT IS THE EXCEPTION. NO, JUST AFTER FOUR. OH, THIS IS, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS. I THINK CRYSTAL IS TALKING ABOUT, UH, C 4 0 5 POINT 12. THEN THE EXCEPTION, I THINK ROBERT TANLEY IS TALKING ABOUT C O FOUR. I'M, I'M SORRY, C FOUR. OH, 5.2 EXCEPTION THREE. SO AGAIN, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? RIGHT? WHAT, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE POINT OF THESE SYSTEMS? I MEAN, TO TO, TO THE GENTLEMAN'S POINT. I'M SORRY, I DON'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. UM, DARREN, SORRY. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. SO I'M A BUILDING OWNER. I HAVE EVERY INCENTIVE IN THE WORLD TO MINIMIZE MY ELECTRICAL USAGE. IF I THINK THESE SYSTEMS ARE WORTH ACHIEVING, THAT I'M GONNA BUY THE SYSTEM AND I'M GONNA USE IT. IF I DON'T, I'M NOT GONNA BUILDING THIS COST INTO EVERY BUILDING THAT WE DO ACHIEVES WHAT EXACTLY OTHER THAN BUILDING COSTS INTO, UH, BUILDING BUILDINGS OF ALL TYPES AT A TIME WHEN THE COST OF BUILDING BUILDINGS OF ALL TYPES IS ASTRONOMICALLY HIGHER THAN IT WAS JUST A YEAR AGO OR TWO YEARS AGO. I MEAN, I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE SOME TIME TO, TO PUT ALL OF THIS IN PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT THIS IS ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHING FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, CHAIRMAN, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. UH, OBVIOUSLY, UH, IT'S, UH, SMALL STEP IN A LONG-TERM GOAL, BUT YOU KNOW, THE 25,000 SQUARE FEET I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BECAUSE, UH, IF YOU LOOK 15, 20 YEARS AGO, THE COST OF THESE SYSTEMS WAS UP HERE. AND MOST RESPONSIBLE BUILDING OWNERS, USERS, NOT THE RETAIL THAT ARE GONNA LEASE IT AND THEN SELL IT TO A PUNCH PENSION FUND. THE COST OF THAT IS GOING DOWN. UH, I'VE SEEN BUILDING, UH, MANAGEMENT FOR H V A C AND, UH, SYSTEMS [00:40:01] IN BUILDINGS FOR 25, 30 YEARS OR MORE. BUT NOW WE'RE STARTING TO SEE SOME OF THIS ENERGY MONITORING BECAUSE IT'S A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS TO THE END USER. ROBERT, YOU'RE, YOU'RE YOUR COMMENT THAT A RESPONSIBLE OWNER, NOT SOMEBODY THAT'S GONNA LEASE IT AND THEN SELL TO A PENSION FUND. I, I, I, I JUST CAN'T EVEN FATHOM THE MENTALITY THAT COULD UTTER THOSE WORDS. . WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING, I MEAN, THAT'S THE END USER. IF YOU HAVE A PENSION, DO YOU HAVE INSURANCE? THEN YOU OWN THESE BUILDINGS, AND IT DOES MATTER TO ALL THESE PEOPLE. THOSE ARE RESPONSIBLE OWNERS THAT DO THAT. WELL, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, I'M NOT, I DON'T WANNA GET INTO THE WEEDS ON THE PEOPLE LEASING UP RETAIL SPACES AND THEN SELLING IT TO SOMEBODY THAT'S LOOKING FOR, UH, INCOME PRODUCING. BUT MOST END USERS, I'LL USE THE EXAMPLE, WHEN I DID WORK AT U S A YEARS AGO, THEY'RE AN END USER LONG TERM. THEY WANT TO DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO SAVE MONEY FOR THE OPERATIONS OF THEIR BUILDING. AND I DO A LOT OF CAR DEALERSHIPS AND THEY DO THE SAME THING. SO WHEN THE COST OF THESE SYSTEMS USED TO BE HERE AS THEY'RE COMING DOWN, I THINK THAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT WHERE IT IS A ASSET OR A BENEFIT TO THE END USER. TO, TO SOMEWHAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I'LL, I'LL GIVE YOU PERSONAL EXPERIENCES THAT I'VE DEALT WITH OR THAT I'VE HAD COWORKERS DEAL WITH ON THIS. SO TYPICALLY WHAT, WHAT WE'VE DESIGNED IT, DESIGNED IT, AND I KNOW WE'VE GOT OUR ELECTRICAL ENGINEER THAT, SO PLEASE CHIME IN IS IS HOW YOU'RE DOING IT TOO. UM, WE'LL TYPICALLY BREAK IT OUT LIKE IN A LARGER PANEL OR A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT AND LARGER. TYPICALLY YOU'LL HAVE LIKE A LIGHTING PANEL AND YOU PUT SOME CTS ON THE, ON IT, AND IT'S, IT'S NEXT TO NOTHING TO, TO DO THAT. YOU'LL HAVE A PLUG PANEL THAT YOU'LL PUT CTS ON THAT PANEL AND YOU'LL CATCH IT ALL AT, AT THE PANEL LEVEL. YEAH. A 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING IS PROBABLY NOT GONNA HAVE MORE THAN TWO, MAYBE THREE PANELS TOPS. BUT THAT'S HOW WE'VE SPLIT IT OUT. I'VE DONE IT WHEN WE WERE DOING, GOD, I HATE TO BRING UP CALIFORNIA, BUT YEARS AND YEARS AGO, CALIFORNIA HAD HAD THIS SIMILAR REQUIREMENT. THIS ISN'T, THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT. I I KNOW, I KNOW, BUT CALIFORNIA, WHEN WE DO SMALL BUILDINGS, IT'S WORSE THAN AUSTIN. YEAH, IT'S WORSE THAN AUSTIN. UM, BUT WHAT WE'D EVEN DO IS, IS DO KIND OF SOME MATH AND WE'D PUT CTS ON THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO THE PANEL, AND THEN SMALL CTS ON INDIVIDUAL BREAKERS. SO WE COULD GET LIKE THE ELECTRIC WATER HEATER VERY EASILY. WE COULD GET, UM, A SMALL, UH, DX CONDENSING UNIT IN THE FANS WITH JUST SOME SMALL CTS. YOU ACTUALLY CAN BUY THIS STUFF FOR THE RESIDENTIAL LEVEL NOW RELATIVELY CHEAP. AND IT'S, IT'S QUITE INTERESTING. NOW, WHERE DOES THIS SAVE YOU MONEY AND WHERE HAVE I SEEN IT? THE CRAZIEST ONE I'VE EVER SEEN IS A COWORKER WHO IS AT A HOSPITAL AND THEY MANAGED TO HOOK THE CHILLED WATER RETURN INTO THE HOT WATER RETURN AND THE HOT WATER RETURN INTO THE CHILLED WATER RETURN. AND BECAUSE HE HAD HAD GAS METERS ON STUFF AND ELECTRIC METERS ON STUFF, HE WAS ABLE TO SEE WHEN THEY TURNED THAT AIR HANDLER ON THAT DAY, A 5% JUMP IN ENERGY USE. UM, WHERE I'VE USED IT QUITE EXTENSIVELY, LIKE I I, WHEN I USED TO DO D O D WORK, WE PUT IN A REQUIREMENT THAT IF IT'S GOT A DIGITAL DISPLAY ON IT, TIE IT IN VIA BACKNET INTO THE B A S, SO WE CAN TREND IT. AND, AND WE WERE PICKING UP STUFF WHERE, LIKE OUR MAKEUP WATER METERS TO THE CHILLED WATER OR THE CHILLED WATER SYSTEM, NOT THE COOLING TOWERS, YOU'D GET A LEAK AND WE'D PINHOLE IT AND RUN ALL OF OUR CHEMICAL CLOUD. I HAD A PLACE, A HOSPITAL IN A COLD LOCATION THAT HAPPENED AND THEY FROZE UP THE HEATING SYSTEM IN THE, UH, IN THE, THE HOT WATER COOLERS USED. THE, MY BACKGROUND'S ACTUALLY ON THAT AS WELL. THEY ACTUALLY HAVE THOSE SYSTEMS THAT THEY DO NOW CATCH. OTHER THAN THAT, YEAH, SO I, I UNDERSTAND FROM THAT STANDPOINT, BRIAN SMITH. UM, THE BIGGEST THING I, I THINK WE NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT IS, IS WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, WHERE IS THIS GOING? UH, 25,000 SEEMS A, A LITTLE SMALL. SO I, I, I WOULD CONCUR THAT IT NEED, IF WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IT NEEDS TO BE A LARGER SCALE. UM, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED THOUSAND, BUT IF A COMPROMISE WOULD BE AT LEAST 50, BUT MINE WOULD BE MORE LIKE A HUNDRED FOR A A, A LARGER SYSTEM THAT THIS MAKES MUCH MORE SENSE. AND I WOULD ADD IT NEEDS TO HAVE A A B A S OR A D D C SYSTEM, SOME SORT OF CONTROL SYSTEM. MOST OF OUR 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDINGS ARE GONNA BE, THAT'S WHY I SAY A HUNDRED THOUSAND. YEAH. PACKAGE, PACKAGE ROOFTOP UNITS. AND THAT'S GONNA BE A BIG MONEY JUMP. IS, IS IF YOU DON'T HAVE, AND THEN YOU GET THE R O I BECAUSE YOU HAVE, YEAH, AND JUST TO, JUST TO CLARIFY, I'M NOT THE AR THE, WHAT I'M SAYING IS NOT THAT THESE SYSTEMS ARE USELESS AND THEY'RE NOT GOOD. I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, AS A CONSULTANT GOING AND SELLING IT TO A BUILDING OWNER AND SAYING, I'M GONNA SAVE YOU A LOT OF MONEY. HERE'S, HERE'S HOW I'M GONNA DO IT. AND YOU HAVE TO DO THIS TO BUILD IN THE, THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. THOSE ARE DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT APPROACHES, RIGHT. AND ONE, UM, ACKNOWLEDGES THE, UH, RATIONALITY AND THE INCENTIVES OF THE MARKET. AND ONE IS A, IS A BLIND METHOD THAT, THAT JUST ADD COSTS AT A TIME WHEN, UM, COSTS ARE ALREADY ADDED ASTRONOMICALLY, AND THIS IS MARK ROSS. BUT IF IT WAS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE AND THERE WAS A, YOU KNOW, SEVEN YEAR PAYBACK, IT WOULD ALREADY, EVERYBODY WOULD BE DOING THIS 1, 2, 3 CONVERSION RIGHT NOW. AND MY MY EXPERIENCE IS, IS [00:45:01] WE WENT AND IN OUR INDUSTRY REPLACED EVERY TOILET ON EVERY PROPERTY, BASICALLY IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS WITH LOW FLOW TOILETS, BECAUSE THE PAYBACK PERIOD WAS TWO OR THREE YEARS. WE'VE GONE THROUGH EVERY BUILDING WE HAVE AND REPLACED EVERY LIGHT BULB ON THE PROPERTY WITH L E D LIGHT BULBS BECAUSE THE PAYBACK IS 13 OR 14 MONTHS. SO WHEN THE PAYBACK PERIOD JUSTIFIES THE RE AND GETS YOU A RETURN ON YOUR INVESTMENT, YOU'RE DOING IT. AND WHEN IT'S NOT LIKE PUTTING, YOU KNOW, SOLAR PANELS UP WHERE THE, WHERE THE PAYBACK PERIOD COULD BE 20 TO 25 YEARS AND YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HAVE TO REPLACE 'EM BEFORE YOU GET THE PAYBACK. WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA PAUSE UNTIL THE TECHNOLOGY CATCHES UP WITH WHAT'S THERE. AND I ALSO THINK A, YOU KNOW, WHO HAS TO, YOU KNOW, THE MONITORING'S ONLY GOOD IF SOMEBODY'S LOOKING AT IT. OKAY. AND OUR EXPERIENCE, AND I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. IN MY SYNAGOGUE, WE HAVE THIS FANCY ENERGY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM THAT CONTROLS EVERYTHING. AND BECAUSE THE BUILDING ENGINEER GUY CHANGED OUT AND NOBODY REALLY UNDERSTANDS HOW TO USE IT, WE'VE GONE FROM OKAY, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU COULD WALK BY AND SHUT OFF A THERMOSTAT IN AREAS THAT ARE NOT BEING USED TO, YOU KNOW, FOR ALMOST TWO YEARS ALL ON OR ALL OFF. SO WE'RE COOLING AND HEATING THE BUILD THE WHOLE BUILDING RATHER THAN AREAS OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T FIGURE OUT NECESSARILY HOW TO USE COMPLICATED SYSTEMS. SO I, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THIS, I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO PUT IT THE THRESHOLDS UP AND MAKE SURE THE TECHNOLOGY IS WORKING. AND PEOPLE THAT THINK IT IS WHO HAVE SMALLER PROPERTIES WHO THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, GOD'S GIFT TO SAVING ENERGY, THEY'LL PUT IT IN AND THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND REVISIT IT ON A, ON ANOTHER CODE CYCLE. SO I WOULD SUPPORT THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND AND THEN RAISING THE INDIVIDUAL TENANT SPACES PROBABLY TO 10,000, WHICH PUTS IT INTO A BIGGER SPACE. 'CAUSE 5,000 IS A RELATIVELY SMALL SPACE BECAUSE NOBODY'S GONNA MONITOR THIS STUFF THAT THE INDIVIDUAL TENANT IS NOT HAVE THE SOPHISTICATION TO LOG ON AND THE LANDLORD AT THAT POINT, BECAUSE IT'S INDIVIDUALLY METERED. OKAY, THAT DOESN'T CARE. I THINK WE HAVE A GENTLEMAN, THE IN THE PUBLIC THAT WANTS TO SPEAK. SIR, IF YOU CAN COME UP AND JUST SAY YOUR NAME INTO THE MICROPHONE AND SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS. MUSCLE SEAL FROM THE SIERRA CLUB. BUT I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A PERSPECTIVE OF MY HISTORY AS A MANAGER OF A, OF A, UM, WALGREENS FOR 25 YEARS ON MARBACH AND MILITARY. AND WE HAD A COMPANY THAT CAME IN AND A WALGREENS FOOTPRINT IS LESS THAN 25,000 SQUARE FOOT. BUT THESE ARE VERY SOPHISTICATED BUILDINGS AND THEY NEED TO BE SOPHISTICATED BUILDINGS. LIKE YOU SAID, WE HAVE INVESTORS THAT OWN THE BUILDING AND BUILD THE BUILDING. AND THEN WALGREENS LEASES THESE BUILDINGS BACK FROM THEM. SO WE HAVE, UH, NATIONAL ENERGY COMPANY COME IN AND PUT ALL OF THESE CONTROL SYSTEMS FROM CHICAGO MONITORING THE STUFF REMOTELY. WE HAVE REFRIGERATORS, HVAC SYSTEMS, ALL OF THE COMPUTERS. I'M A PHARMACIST BACK IN THE PHARMACY WITH THIS REMOTE COMPANY MONITORING IT, NOT LOCAL CODES TO DESIGN IT. WE WERE NOT CONTROLLING WELL ENOUGH FOR THE HUMIDITY. I WAS AT 81% IN THE PHARMACY USING THESE THINGS BECAUSE THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND SAN ANTONIO. AND LOCALLY, UM, EVEN THOUGH I AM THE ENERGY PERSON WANTING TO DO THE MAXIMUM, UH, BEST WORK FOR OR ENERGY EFFICIENCY, WE ALSO HAVE TO BE WORRYING ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THESE BUILDINGS. A LOT OF PEOPLE COME INTO THESE SMALL FOOTPRINT, UH, RETAIL STORES, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 25,000 SQUARE FOOT AND SMALLER. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE ADDRESS THESE THINGS LOCALLY FOR OUR CLIMATE. IT'S FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR BUILDINGS, OUR VENTILATION, UH, AND TALKING WITH THIS MASK ON. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT , BUT, UH, SO WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING THESE THINGS, THEY HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED FOR OUR CLIMATE. 25,000 SQUARE FOOT IS NOT A BUILDING THAT'S, UH, SMALL POTATOES. WE HAVE ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY PEOPLE FROM THE WHOLE AREA COME IN AND WALK INTO THESE STORES. THESE ARE OUR MAIN TYPES OF ACCESS [00:50:01] FOR FOOD, MEDICINES, UM, EVERYTHING ELSE. SO PLEASE, WHEN YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THESE THINGS, LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS FROM A HUNDRED THOUSAND FOOT WALMART. THEY NEED TO BE MOSTLY IN THESE 10,000 TO 25,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDINGS WHERE OUR ELECTRICAL BILLS WERE RUNNING, UM, YOU KNOW, $5,000 A MONTH OR MORE. AND AFTER WE HAD THESE THINGS IN, WE LOWERED THEM TO $3,000 A MONTH, WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT SAVINGS. AND THE PAYBACK PERIOD MADE IT. BUT THE PROBLEM WAS IT DIDN'T INCLUDE FOR OUR CLIMATE. I'M REPEATING MYSELF HERE. SO YOU HAVE TO PUT THESE CODES IN, IN THESE SMALL BUILDINGS, BUT YOU HAVE TO INCLUDE FOR THE HEALTH OF THE BUILDING ALSO, NOT JUST THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY. I'LL STOP THERE. THANKS SIR. SO MY UNDERSTANDING OF THIS IS IT DOESN'T MONITOR ANYTHING THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. ALL IT IS MONITORING IS ELECTRIC USE. AND, AND SO AGAIN, IF WAL WALGREENS PUT THE SYSTEM IN AND THEY DID IT AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE BECAUSE THERE, THEY PERCEIVED THAT THERE IS A PAYBACK TO WHAT THEY DID AND THEY GOT IT. THIS, YOU KNOW, IN A SMALL RETAIL CENTER WHO THE TENANT AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE RENTING A MEXICAN FOOD RESTAURANT THAT'S 5,000 SQUARE FEET, THEY'RE NOT GONNA MONITOR THIS. SO SPENDING THE MONEY TO DO IT IS, IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST NOT SO IN, IN, IN INTEREST OF, OF MOVING THIS FORWARD, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S AN APPETITE ON THE COMMITTEE FOR INCREASING THE THRESHOLD OF THIS TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND FEET. I WOULD ACCEPT A MOTION AND TO THAT EFFECT, BUT I THINK WHAT IT WOULD REQUIRE IS STAFF TO COME BACK AND ACTUALLY GIVE US SOMETHING OF WHAT THE LANGUAGE LOOKED LIKE IN ALL THESE SECTIONS. UH, GO AHEAD. NO, I JUST WAS SITTING THERE. EVERYBODY'S ASKING COST. I WISH I COULD, I COULD CAST MY PHONE UP ONTO THE DEAL WE WERE ASKING. SO SAW IS CURRENTLY FOR, IT'S CALLED A FLUE FOR A HUNDRED DOLLARS ONE TIME PURCHASE. THIS IS, THIS IS FLUME MONITORING THE WATER USAGE IN MY HOUSE. IT WAS A HUNDRED BUCKS AND IT'S BEEN WELL WORTH IT, CONSIDERING WHEN I'VE GONE ON VACATION. MY DAD CAME OVER TO CHECK ON THE HOUSE, FLUSHED THE TOILET. SORRY DAD, YOU'RE BEING RECORDED. FLUSHED THE TOILET AND THE TOILET STUCK OPEN. AND IT TEXTED ME SAYING, YOU'VE GOT A LEAK IN YOUR HOUSE. AND BY THAT TIME, I'D USED 300 GALLONS WORTH OF WATER BEFORE IT, IT HAPPENED TO TEXT ME AND SAID, OH, HEY, BY THE WAY, WELL, I WAS GONNA BE GONE FOR THREE WEEKS AND NOBODY WAS GONNA BE IN THE HOUSE FOR THREE WEEKS. YEAH, GO FIX IT. YEAH, DAD, GO FIX IT. AND HE HAD RUN OVER IT. HOW DOES IT COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR PHONE? BY CELLULAR? SO THIS, THIS WIFI CONNECTION, WELL, UH, PARTICULAR DEVICE GOES WIFI, MY HOME WIFI, AND THEN I'M ABLE TO GET TO IT. THIS IS INTERESTING. I, BUT I, I DO WANNA MOVE US FORWARD. 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT, WHAT THIS TALKS ABOUT. I MEAN, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN THESE, THESE SYSTEMS IN GENERAL, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT TALKS ABOUT. YES. IT'S, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT TALKS ABOUT. WELL, NO, THIS IS TALKING ABOUT INSTALLING A, A ENERGY MONITORING SYSTEM THAT HAS NONE OF THE FANCINESS OF YOUR APP. A THIS IS A WATER MONITORING. THIS WOULD COMPLY AND YOU CAN GET THE SAME LITTLE THINGS FOR YOUR, YOUR HOME ELECTRICAL PANEL FOR A FEW. I I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT IT, BUT I, UH, EXACT COST BUT UNDER A COUPLE THOUSAND BUCKS. SO IT IS THERE THAT, JUST TO PUT THAT INFORMATION, AND I THINK A LOT OF IT IS JUST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THE TECHNOLOGY IS OUT THERE AND IT'S RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE TO BE COMPLIANT. NOW IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT, WE WOULD WANT THE CITY TO SAY THE FLUME DEVICE OR WHAT'S COMING WITH THE, WITH THE NEW SAWS, SMART METERS AND THE ROLLOUT OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, THAT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY COMPLY. SO WE CAN, WE CAN DICTATE SOME LEVEL OF THAT. SO, BUT ANYWAY, I JUST WANTED, I'M SITTING HERE GOING, WELL, DUH, IT'S RIGHT HERE ON MY PHONE. I CAN SHOW YOU GUYS ALL WHAT I USED. SO I NEED ONE MORE POINT. WHAT HE SAID IS ON HUMIDITY CONTROL ON THESE THINGS THERE, THE NEST THERMOSTAT, MOST OF THESE, THEY ALREADY HAVE 'EM ON THERE TO INCORPORATE THAT IN THERE IS NOT A BIG LEAP. IT SHOULD NOT BE AN EXPENSIVE LEAP AND, BUT IT'S THE 20. BUT THE INDEPENDENT, THE, THE LEAD, THE THING IS, IS THAT Y'ALL ARE TRYING TO GO TO THESE MUCH LARGER BUILDINGS AND IT NEEDS TO BE IN THESE SMALLER RETAIL BUILDINGS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT DO WE WANNA DO HERE? DO YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION? YEAH, PLEASE, BRIAN? YES, I MOVE THAT WE ACCEPTED AS, UH, ITEM NUMBER 29 IS WRITTEN. OH, CIRCUMVENTION. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A SECOND? YEAH, I'LL GO AHEAD AND SECOND THAT ONE. OKAY, SO THAT'S ACTUALLY CONTRARY TO WHAT WE HAD ESTABLISHED AS THE, UH, CONSENSUS, BUT, UM, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND PUT THAT TO A VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? SAY NO. NO, NO. OKAY. SO THAT MOTION FAILS. UH, IS THERE ANOTHER MOTION FOR ITEM 29, MIKE, EVEN THOUGH I CAN'T MAKE A MOTION CHAIR. ONE SECOND REAL QUICK. WE WERE CONFERRING WITH LEGAL IF WE NEED TO HAVE THAT TO BE A ROLL CALL VOTE. CAN, CAN YOU JUST RAISE YOUR HANDS IF YOU SAY NO? SO WE CAN, IF YOU SAID YES ON THAT PREVIOUS VOTE, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND. SO WE HAVE ROBERT, YOU SAID NO. OH, YEP. ROBERT AND, AND GREG. [00:55:02] SORRY, IT'S UP. IT WAS EASIER FOR ME TO HEAR UP HERE, SO I APOLOGIZE. AND HOW MANY, HOW MANY NOS HAVE YOU RAISED YOUR HAND? BRIAN? ME AND, UH, O AND RON? YEAH, SO WE LON, MIKE, BRIAN, AND, AND JACK MORE. OKAY, PERFECT. ALSO, WE HAVE OUR MINUTES BEING WRITTEN BY SOMEBODY WATCHING IT ONLINE, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE SHE HAS ALL THAT INFORMATION. MY APOLOGIES. THANK YOU, SIR. NO, NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL. THANK Y'ALL. I, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, BUT I CAN'T MAKE A MOTION THAT WE RAISE IT TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET. AND THE EXCEPTION ON THE, UH, INDIVIDUAL IS 10,000. BRIAN SMITH. UH, I'D LIKE TO PUT THAT INTO MOTION. OKAY, THANK YOU. BRIAN. IS THERE A SECOND FOR THAT? JACK UP MORE SECOND. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. DO YOU NEED A HAND VOTE? WE'LL SEE IN A SECOND. UH, LET'S PROBABLY GO AHEAD AND DO THAT. IF THERE'S GONNA BE ANY, YEAH, GO AHEAD AND RAISE YOUR HAND IF IT'S AN AYE. SO THAT'S RON, GREG. OH YEAH, ME, UH, JACK . I USUALLY ONLY HAVE TO VOTE IF IT'S AS CLOSE . ALRIGHT, ANY YOU OPPOSED, ROBERT? OKAY, SO THAT CARRIES, SO 29 IS AMENDED TO READ A HUNDRED THOUSAND MINIMUM WITH 10,000 ON THE EXCEPTION. SO WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS, UH, MAYBE NEXT MEETING, IF YOU CAN COME BACK WITH WHAT THE LANGUAGE OF THAT AMENDMENT WOULD LOOK LIKE, JUST FOR US TO, TO REVIEW. BECAUSE THE MOTION IS THE MOTION, BUT I KNOW THERE'S SOME WRITING THAT TECHNICALLY INTO THE, INTO THE CODE IS PROBABLY, WELL, IT'S NEVER THAT EASY RENT. ACTUALLY, IN THIS CASE, MY KIT WOULD BE PRETTY EASY BECAUSE IT'S SAYING BUILDINGS, UM, HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THIS SECTION, ALL THESE FOLLOWING SECTIONS. IF THEY'RE A HUNDRED THOUSAND, AND THEN THE EXCEPTION, SO IT WOULD JUST BE THE FOUR, CORRECT? AND 4 0 5 POINT 12. SO THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY SECTION THAT WE WOULD MODIFY, UM, UNLESS YOU GUYS HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR OTHER SECTIONS SPECIFICALLY, BUT IT'S SAYING NEW BUILDINGS AT THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THESE FOLLOWING SECTIONS. I, I GUESS 4 0 5, 12, 2 EXCEPTION THREE MIGHT HAVE TO, IF I'M READING IT RIGHT. YEAH, THAT'S THE ONE I WAS LOOKING AT. THAT'S ONE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GOING TO 10,000. I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE EXCEPTION OF IT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 4 0 5 12 EXCEPTION. AND THEN THE 4 0 5 12, 2 EXCEPTION THREE, THOSE ARE THE, THE ONES THAT WOULD GO TO 10,000. CORRECT. AND AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT, ONE OF THE ONES ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL WHERE WE'RE DEALING WITH THIS IS A BIG DISCUSSION OF WHAT QUALIFIES AS A METER. SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT THAT'S WORTH TALKING. LIKE I'VE BEEN ARGUING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ON MY PROJECTS THAT A V F D THAT CAN REPORT KILOWATTS IS A METER AND I'M GETTING SOME PUSHBACK. SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS OF TRYING TO KEEP COST AS IMPORTANT AS, AS THIS, YOU'RE RIGHT GUYS, YOU'RE WRITING THIS UP, WE MAY WANNA LOOK AT SOME LEVEL OF, OF AN ENFORCEMENT OF WHAT WE WOULD ACCEPT JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT TO FORCE IT AS A UTILITY GRADE METER, YOU KNOW, THOSE GET EXPENSIVE. WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LET SOMETHING BEING, YOU KNOW, A LOT MORE, YOU KNOW, A 97% ACCURACY WOULD COMPLY WITH THIS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WE DON'T, WE SHOULDN'T BE REQUIRING UTILITY GRADE, WHICH IS LIKE 99.9% ACCURACY. SO THAT'S AN EN AN ENFORCEMENT QUESTION THAT THEY'LL HAVE TO COME TO WHEN, WHEN THIS GETS ADOPTED, I SUPPOSE. ALL RIGHT, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO CHAIR CHAIR. THIS IS AMIN THOMAS. CAN WE MAKE ANOTHER MOTION TO CLARIFY EXACTLY WHAT CHANGES YOU WANT TO HAPPEN? AND, AND I WOULD, I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU ARE LESS THAN, IF WE MAKE THAT EXCEPTION, 10,000 SQUARE FEET, THE FIRST EXCEPTION FOR 4 0 5 12, IF YOU ARE LESS THAN 10,000 SQUARE FEET, YOU DON'T EVEN KEEP READING, RIGHT? YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM THESE SECTIONS IF YOU MEET THAT EXCEPTION. SO, TO, TO CHANGE THE OTHER ITEM, BUT CRYSTAL, THAT'S ONLY FOR R TWO OCCUPANCY, EXCEPTION, R TWO OCCUPANCIES AND INDIVIDUAL TENANT SPACES. SO I THOUGHT THE, THE POINT WAS INDIVIDUAL, WE COULD CLARIFY THAT BECAUSE I READ IT THE SAME WAY I I READ, I THINK THAT COULD BE INTERPRETED BY CERTAIN PEOPLE BEGIN. I JUST SAY WE NEED TO CLARIFY THAT IT'S OUR TWO OCCUPANCIES IN ESSENCE FROM A, IN ANYTHING THAT IS A TENANT OCCUPANCY IN, IN A B AND AN M AND AN I TWO, RIGHT? THIS, THIS IS, UM, THIS IS WHY, THIS IS WHY I WAS SUGGESTING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, YOU UNDERSTAND THE INTENT OF WHAT WE JUST DID. IF YOU CAN COME BACK NEXT MEETING WITH SOME FORM OF THE WRITTEN TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING FOR, IS THAT KIND OF LEVEL OF CLARIFICATION. 'CAUSE YEAH, NO, THAT'S PROBABLY OUTTA THE CARDS ALREADY , . BUT, UM, BUT BECAUSE AGAIN, WE COULD, WE NEED TO MOVE ON AND I DON'T WANNA SPEND TOO MUCH MORE TIME ON THIS ITEM KIND OF WORDSMITHING WHAT, WHAT WE'VE DONE IS THAT, IS THAT FAIR CRYSTAL? UM, COMPLETELY FAIR. BUT MY INTERPRETATION IS THAT I'M CHANGING 4 0 5 POINT 12 ONLY. I'M CHANGING 25 TO A HUNDRED AND I'M CHANGING FIVE TO 10 IN THE EXCEPTION [01:00:01] CRYSTAL, CAN WE ALSO, SO IF THAT'S NOT CLEAR, THEN I NEED CLARIFICATION AFTER THE WORD TENANT SPACES IN OTHER OCCUPANCIES SO THAT IT'S JUST CLEAR. I LIKE THAT IDEA. AND, AND GREG, YOU'RE UH, CONCERN ABOUT THE METERS HAVING TO BE TOO FANCY. 4 0 5 POINT 12.3 JUST TALKS ABOUT ANY DIGITAL TYPE METER PLUS, UH, WITH A TESTED ACCURACY PLUS OR MINUS 2%. SO IT, IT OPENS THAT, IT ALLOWS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. WHICH ONE WAS IT? SO 4 0 5, 12 0.3. YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT 4 0 5 12 2 EXCEPTION THREE DOES NOT NEED TO BE CHANGED? THAT, THAT, I GUESS THAT'S THE QUESTION. SO I, I GUESS BECAUSE I REALLY DO WANNA MOVE ON, UH, FROM THIS, UM, FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS, , UM, BUT SAY THAT'S CURRENT SENSORS, WE NEED TO SAY ALL METERS. THAT'S THAT LANGUAGE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. SORRY. YEAH. SO ANYWAY, SO IF YOU CAN COME BACK WITH WHAT THE CHANGES NEED TO BE IN THE, IN THE LANGUAGE, THEN WE CAN LOOK AT IT AND MAKE SURE THAT IT MEETS, UM, AND WHAT, WHAT THE INTENT IS. AND CHAIRMAN, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. CRYSTAL, DO YOU THINK WE COULD GET THIS DONE BEFORE THE END OF THE MEETING SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING? SURE, ABSOLUTELY. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO ITEM NUMBER 40. MIKE, BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO 40, NO, JUST WAIT ON, ON 12, THE TABLE IN 12 TWO AS TO WHAT Y'ALL ARE GOING TO MEASURE. CAN Y'ALL MEET WITH THE STAKEHOLDERS TO SEE WHAT REALLY USES ENERGY FOR WHAT THEY HAVE TO MONITOR? SO SOME STUFF, YOU KNOW, MONITORING THE LIGHTING, YOU KNOW, TO ME IS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GONNA GLEAN FROM THAT, BUT AC AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO WHEN THE ACS ABOUT TO GO BAD, YOU'RE DRAWING A WHOLE LOT OF ENERGY, WHICH WOULD BE GOOD TO KNOW. AND SO CAN WE JUST HAVE Y'ALL CLARIFY, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT'S THEY'RE ASKING FOR. DOES IT REALLY MAKE SENSE AND WILL IT SAVE ENERGY IN THE FUTURE? LET, LET ME GIVE YOU A COUPLE QUICK ANSWERS. FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, PLUG LOADS, I'VE BEEN RUNNING, AND AGAIN, HELP ME OUT HERE, AROUND HALF A WATT PER SQUARE FOOT. LIGHTING IS AROUND HALF A WATT, A SQUARE FOOT, H V A C, MAYBE TWO WATTS ISH, A SQUARE FOOT. UM, G GUYS, I'M SORRY, I DON'T, I I, I DON'T WANNA KEEP HARPING I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT A GOOD CONVERSATION, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS THE, YEAH, I MEAN THAT, THAT, IF THAT'S WHAT WE WANNA DO, I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE SET A MOTION, WE WANT TO, WE'VE APPROVED A MOTION TO IMPROVE THE THRESHOLD, INCREASE THE THRESHOLD TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND EXCEPTIONS, BEING AT 10,000 SQUARE FOOT, WHERE, WHERE RELEVANT, UM, MARK'S ASKED FOR SOME CLARIFICATION ON THE ENFOR, THAT'S AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THAT IF IT REQUIRES A TECHNICAL BULLETIN OR WHATEVER, A A DOES AN INTERPRETATION ON WHAT THAT IS, THAT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE THE CODE. I AGREE THAT THERE IS SOME WORK TO BE DONE ON THESE IN TERMS OF HOW THIS STUFF IS ENFORCED, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE IN, IN MOST OF THESE CODE IS ITEMS IN THIS BOOK. BUT WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SOME MORE PROGRESS ON THESE THINGS. SO I'D LIKE TO, I'D LIKE TO KEEP PUSHING US ALONG. SO, SO CHAIR, JUST TO CLARIFY, SO WE'RE GONNA MAKE THE MODIFICATIONS REQUESTED BASED ON THE MOTION. WE WILL REVIEW THE REST OF THE SECTION, WE'LL WILL IT BACK NEXT TIME, AND YOU CAN REVIEW IT AS A PANEL AND THEN DECIDE AT THAT TIME, RIGHT, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MOTION THAT WAS APPROVED MATCHES WITH THE LANGUAGE THAT YOU GUYS HAVE PRE YOU ALL PRE PRESENTED AS A, AS A, AS STAFF. AND THEN, UH, YOU KNOW, PRE YOU CAN PRESENT THOSE CLARIFICATIONS THAT THAT MARK'S ASKED FOR AS WELL. THANK YOU. RON, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANNA SAY? YOU LOOK LIKE YOU HAVE SOMETHING WANTED TO SAY. UH, I, I'M NOT SURE WHO, WHO YOU CALLED ON, BUT, UH, I, I AGREE COMPLETELY. THANKS. THANKS. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'LL GO ON TO ITEM 40, WHICH IS, UH, TABLE 4 0 2 0.1 0.2 ON PAGE R FOUR DASH TWO. AND I THINK IT'S RELATED TO TABLE 4 0 2 0.13, WHICH IS ON OUR FOUR, UH, THREE. SO WE TABLED THIS ITEM TO SPEAK MORE ON THE COST AND WE WERE, UM, EXPECTING SOME INPUT FROM OUR HOME BUILDERS. ON THE, ON THE COMMITTEE [01:05:13] WE'RE CLIMATE ZONE TWO, IS THAT RIGHT? YES, CORRECT. YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF MATH IN THERE. YOU TELL ME WHAT IT MEANS. SO TO GO TO 26, HOW MANY INCHES MORE INSULATION? CORRECT. AND, AND THAT WOULD BE STRAIGHT PRESCRIPTIVE AN R 49. SO MOST LIKELY THE FENESTRATION MANUFACTURERS ARE TYPICALLY A LITTLE BETTER THAN CODE. SO YOU, IN MOST CASES, YOU'D BE ABLE TO TRADE THAT OFF TO PROBABLY AN R 42 ISH. SO YOU'D BE LOOKING AT 15 INCHES. BUT IT JUST DEPENDS ON COMPLIANCE PATH. THERE'S NO BLACK AND WHITE, JUST 'CAUSE THERE'S TRADE OFFS. YEAH. THANK YOU. UH, BRIAN SMITH. JUST THE CALCULATION ACTUAL VALUE. IF YOU GO, THIS IS JOE LALES. IF YOU GO PERFORMANCE ROUTE, YOU CAN PASS WITH R 30. SO THE INCREASE TO GO TO R 49 IS AROUND $2,500 TO THE BUYER. SO DID EVERYBODY HEAR WHAT JOE SAID? NO. WILL YOU REPEAT IT? SO I THINK IT'S RIGHT NOW YOU CAN PASS THE PERFORMANCE ROUTE USING R 30. OKAY. IF YOU GO TO R 49, IT'S GONNA BE $2,500 TO THE BUYER. BUT YOU WOULDN'T GO TO R 49 IN THE PERFORMANCE PATH. CORRECT. WE WOULD PROBABLY GO TO R 38 AND THAT'S STILL $600 TO THE BUYER. BUT IF THE, IF YOU HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE USING, THERE'S NOT AN OPEN ATTIC AND IT HAS LIKE A CATHEDRAL CEILING, DOES THAT FAT, THE MONEY THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT INCLUDE INCREASING THE SIZE OF EVERY SINGLE TRUSS OR JOIST? THIS IS JUST TO ACCOMMODATE IT. THIS IS JUST FOR THE INSULATION. IF WE GO TO R 49, YOU'RE CORRECT. WE GOTTA CREATE HEELS IN THE TRUSS AND THAT COULD BE ADDITIONAL COSTS THAT I NEED TO PUT TOGETHER. BUT JUST THE INSULATION ALONE TO GO TO R 49 IS QUITE A BIT. OKAY. UM, BRIAN, DO YOU WHAT? SO FROM WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING IS, AGAIN, FROM THE LAST TIME WE HAD THESE CODE CYCLES, WE LOOKED AT THE DIFFERENCES FROM R 30 TO R 38. AND IF YOU LOOKED AT THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT WAS IN FROM R 19, R 30, IT WAS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. WHEN WE WENT TO R 38, THERE WAS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE FOR THE ADDITIONAL COSTS. THIS TO ACTUALLY DO IT IS A MULTIPLE FACTORS AND JACK UP MORE CON CONCUR. SO IN ADDITION TO THE INSULATION COST, SO THE ADDITIONAL PROBABLY $2,500 PER HOUSE IS YOU ALSO HAVE TO HAVE YOUR CEILING JOIST BE DEEPER TO BE ABLE TO HOLD THAT IN PLACE. WE WOULD ALSO HAVE TO CHANGE ALL OUR RAFTERS. 'CAUSE MOST OF US FOAM AT FIVE AND A HALF INCHES, UH, FOR OUR RAFTERS. SO NOW TO GET THAT, UH, WE'RE GONNA NOW HAVE TO GO TO TWO BY EIGHTS. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT A FIVE TO $10,000 PER HOUSE UPGRADE. FOUR. IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCIENCE OF WHAT THAT INSULATION IS GOING TO BE A BENEFIT ANALYSIS, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS WHOLE THING IS, IS WHAT IS OUR R O I SEVEN TO 10 YEARS. I HEARD YOU, YOU WON'T GET THAT BACK. CAN YOU DESCRIBE, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT YOU MEANT ABOUT THE COMPLIANCE PATH OR, OR WHAT THE WORDS YOU WERE JUST TO, JUST FOR THOSE OF US WHO DON'T LIVE IN THIS WORLD, WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT MEANT. THE 1 0 1 DEFINITION, YOU CAN ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL ALL DAY LONG. I, I CAN MAKE A HOUSE COMPLY WITH R FIVE IN THE WALLS AND R 13 IN THE CEILING. AS LONG AS 80% OF MY WALLS ARE REALLY GOOD WINDOWS. IT'S, IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT HOUSE WOULD BE AN ENERGY PIG. BUT THE THE GIST IS BUILDERS CAN DETERMINE, HEY, IF I SPEND A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS MORE ON BETTER WINDOWS, WELL THEN I CAN STICK WITH R 30. OR IF I, THE WINDOWS ARE REALLY EXPENSIVE AND BLOWN, FIBERGLASS IS CHEAPER, LET ME JUST BLOW THE R 49 AND, [01:10:01] AND, BUT I CAN, I CAN'T A HUNDRED PERCENT TOW THE COMPANY LINE BECAUSE THE 38 TO 49, WHEN YOU DO LOOK AT THE MATH, MATH IS MATH. YOU'RE RIGHT. , AND IT'S ACTUALLY YOUR STUDS ARE YOUR WEAKEST LINK WHEN YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE OVERALL BUILDING ENVELOPE OF WHERE ACTUALLY THINGS ARE. AND THAT'S WHY THE CONTINUING INSULATION IS A BETTER OVERALL THAN WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN FROM THERE. I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE R 38 WITH, UH, AN R THREE FOAM BOARD OVER THE TOP OF THE JOISTS, AND THEN DECK ON TOP OF THAT FOR STORAGE WOULD WORK A TON BETTER. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S THE QUESTION, ROBERT. I I TEND TO AGREE. UM, WHY DON'T, WHAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION HERE? WHY DON'T YOU JUST LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS TODAY? BECAUSE THERE'S, FROM WHAT EVERYBODY'S SAYING IS YOU'RE GONNA SPEND FIVE GRAND MORE TO GET A DOLLAR A AGAIN, BECAUSE THE, THE WINDOW GUYS ARE AHEAD OF THE GAME. SO YOU'RE GOING TO BE SAVING ON THE WINDOWS AND, AND THE WINDOW GUYS, A AS THESE NEW CODES COME OUT, THEY, THEY'RE ALWAYS AHEAD OF THE GAME, THE FENESTRATION MANUFACTURERS. SO YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME OF THAT TRADE OFF ALREADY BUILT IN. UH, CERTAINLY. AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, A HUNDRED. SO DO YOU SAVE, DO YOU SAVE A WHOLE LOT OF ENERGY BY INCREASING THE CEILING U FACTOR FROM 30 TO 26? THERE'S THE, THE DIMINISHMENT GOING FROM 38 TO 49 IS, IS, IS IT'S, IT'S PRETTY MINUSCULE, HONESTLY. I MEAN, 38. SO WHY DO IT, DON'T TELL MY BOSS I SAID THIS, BUT 38 PROBABLY. AND, AND AGAIN, THAT CONTINUOUS FOAM THROUGH THE, THE, THERE'S LOTS OF OTHER AREAS, BUT CODE DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT. BUT THEN YOU ALSO, YOU THINK ABOUT DELTA T, YOU KNOW, THE HEAT DIFFERENTIAL AND WHERE IS IT THE GREATEST IN THAT 145 DEGREE ATTIC? SO I, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S, WE AMENDED IT DOWN TO R 42 AT N C T COG FOR THE D F W REGION, KIND OF MET IN THE MIDDLE, UH, WITH THE BUILDERS IN THE EFFICIENCY FOLKS. BUT AGAIN, IT'S ALL JUST CALCULATIONS. YOU CAN TRADE IT OFF. THERE'S A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE YOU COULD STILL DO, YOU KNOW, R 22 IN YOUR VAULTS AND R 38 THROUGH THE REST OF YOUR ATTIC AND STILL MEET CODE, UH, JACK UP MORE HERE. AND I, AND I APPRECIATE THE, THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF WHAT THE WINDOW MANUFACTURERS ARE DOING. NUMBER ONE, WE CAN'T EVEN GET WINDOWS. UM, NUMBER TWO, THEY'RE NOT AHEAD OF THE CURVE ON MAYBE ON THE HIGHER END HOMES, BUT ON THE TYPICAL OVERALL LOOK OF LIKE THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, WE HAVE MOST OF 'EM PUTTING IN VINYL WINDOWS, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE FIBERGLASS. AND THAT'S MAINLY BECAUSE THEY'RE PROBABLY $200 MORE PER WINDOW, UH, TO PUT THOSE IN AS OPPOSED TO VINYL WINDOWS THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN. SO I MEAN, I'M, I'M MORE IN FAVOR OF KEEPING IT WHERE IT, WHERE IT IS AND NOT TRYING TO INCREASE MORE COSTS, ESPECIALLY DURING THIS, UH, TIME OF AVAILABILITY AND, UH, CREATING A HIGHER COST THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO JUSTIFY, UH, DOING THAT. SO CRYSTAL OR AMIN, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE IF WE WANTED, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S AN APPETITE TO KEEP THE 2018 STANDARD THAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE. UM, AND MAYBE REVISITING IN, IN THE NEXT CYCLE TO SEE IF, UM, THINGS HAVE CHANGED. WHAT WOULD A WHAT WOULD AN AMENDMENT LOOK LIKE? WOULD WE JUST AMEND IN THE 2018 LANGUAGE IN SOME WAY? UH, OR THE 2018 TABLE, I MEAN, IS, ARE THERE ANY OTHER CHANGES TO THE TABLE THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER? OR IS IT JUST THESE, THESE, IS IT THAT SIMPLE? UM, IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE. SO WE WOULD COPY THE TABLE IN AND, YOU KNOW, CROSS OUT THE 49 AND PUT THE, THE 38 30 WHATEVER, THE 38, UM, IN BOTH OF THOSE TABLES. OKAY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S WHAT IS POSSIBLE. SO IS THERE A MOTION TO DO THAT FOR 40 AND 41 TO, UM, AMEND IN THE 2018 LANGUAGE FOR THESE TWO TABLES? I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION JACK UP MORE. THANKS, JACK. BRIAN SMITH SECOND. THANKS. UM, HEY, GREG, WE'RE ABOUT TO TAKE A VOTE. I DON'T KNOW, I I CAN GIVE YOU A MINUTE TO CATCH UP OR IF YOU GUYS WANT A MINUTE BEFORE WE DO IT. I DON'T, I'M NOT, THAT'S ON RECORD. SO THERE'S A MOTION ON THE TABLE TO AMEND IN 2018 LANGUAGE FOR 40 AND 41. IT'S BEEN SECOND AND GOOD. DO YOU HAVE SOME COMMENT ON THAT? WE DON'T, WE HAVEN'T VOTED YET. YEAH, I, I JUST WAS, I'M MAYBE COMPLETELY CRAZY, BUT AN R A U VALUE OF O 26 IS R 38 POINT SOMETHING. SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, AND I NEED SOMEBODY ELSE TO HELP ME. I HAVEN'T HAD ENOUGH CAFFEINE TODAY, BUT DOING MY MATH, I DON'T KNOW WHY THE TABLES DON'T AGREE BECAUSE THE U FACTORS, UH, TALKING ABOUT THE ASSEMBLY, WHEREAS THE R VALUE'S TALKING ABOUT THE CAVITY. OKAY, SO [01:15:01] ANSWERED OTHER BUILDING QUESTION. THERE YOU GO. ALL AND, AND RATHER, RATHER THAN I, I, I CAN'T IMAGINE THIS DESIGN, BUT MAYBE SOME MODERN DESIGN. SO THERE IS ONE OTHER LITTLE TWEAK TO THE TABLE THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO LEAVE AND JUST 'CAUSE IT ADDS FLEXIBILITY. BUT THE ONLY TWO THINGS THAT CHANGED IN CLIMATE ZONE TWO ARE R 38 TO R 49 IN THE CEILING. BUT ALSO, YEAH, THERE YOU GO. THE WALL. SO YOU CAN USE A ZERO CAVITY AND AN R 10 CONTINUOUS. SO IT ADDED ANOTHER OPTION IN THE 2021. PERHAPS A REAL MODERN HOME WOULD HAVE A ZERO CAVITY R 10 CONTINUOUS APPLICATION. UM, I JUST THINK YOU WOULD, THE MORE OPTIONS FOR THE HOME BUILDERS, THE BETTER. AND TO LEAVE THAT R ZERO PLUS AN R 10 CONTINUOUS AS AN OPTION MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL. OKAY. SO THAT'S A, THAT'S A, SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ROLL INTO THAT. I THINK WE'D HAVE TO, GOSH, ROBERT'S RULES. WE'D HAVE TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT MOTION. UM, VOTE. WELL, I'LL JUST, YEAH, LET'S JUST, JUST VOTE ON BLIND. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION TO JUST SIMPLY, UM, AMEND IN THE 2018 LANGUAGE. SAY AYE. AYE, AYE WAS GONNA GO. OKAY. ANY OPPOSED, ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY, SO THAT IS DONE. SO NOW WE HAVE TO DO A SECOND MOTION TO, TO AMEND THE WOOD FRAME WALL, THE WOOD FRAME WALL ON TABLE 4 0 2 1 3. SO WE WANNA MAKE THAT MOTION. I SECOND THAT MOTION. I MAKE THE MOTION, UH, TO KEEP IN THE 2021 TABLE. R 4 0 2 1 3, CLIMATE TWO, JUST THE WOOD FRAME, WALL R VALUE, VERY SPECIFIC. THANK YOU, BRIAN. SECOND. ANYBODY? I'LL SECOND IT. THANKS JACK. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ANY ABSTENTIONS? OKAY, SO, UH, WE GOT THROUGH THAT. UM, DO WE WANNA GET THAT FOR THE TABLE OF 4 0 2 0.12 AS WELL? WELL, HE SPECIFIED 4 0 2 0.13, SO WE NEED TO GO. YOU'RE FOLLOW THE SAME TRAP I JUST DID. IT'S, IT'S ALREADY IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S ASSEMBLY. YEAH. ONE IS AN ASSEMBLY, ONE IS THE CAVITY. THAT'S, THAT'LL TEACH ME TO PLAY ARCHITECTURAL FIELD TOO OFTEN. ALL RIGHT, SO THAT IS THAT. UM, LET'S GO TO THE LAST TWO TABLE ITEMS ARE 45 AND 47. AND THEN WE'LL TAKE A SHORT BREAK. UM, SO ARE THESE RELATED CRYSTAL OR ARE THESE NO, THESE ARE SEPARATE. SO WE'LL DO 'EM ONE AT A TIME. FOUR R 4 0 2 0.6 IS ON PAGE R FOUR DASH NINE. WE TABLED THIS FOR, FOR AN AMENDMENT, I BELIEVE. UH, CHAIRMAN, THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY. I THOUGHT, UH, I'M LOOKING INTO MY NOTES. UH, WE ALSO, I THOUGHT WE TABLED 45, 47 AND 48. NO, I HAVE JUST 45 AND 47. UM, BUT I COULD BE WRONG. I MIGHT HAVE MADE A MISTAKE ON MY NOTES. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO 45 IS ELECTRICAL AND COMMUNICATIONS OUTLETS, BOXES AND WE TABLED IT FOR AMENDMENT. DO YOU HAVE THAT? I DO. YOU CAN SEE THE AMENDMENT ON THE SCREEN. SO WE, WE MADE THE, UH, WE MADE IT AN OR. SO I, I WON'T HIGHLIGHT IT 'CAUSE SOMETIMES THAT'S DIFFICULT TO READ, BUT WE, IF YOU JUST, YOU KNOW, I'LL TAKE OFF THE, UM, CHANGES SO YOU CAN READ IT. THAT WAS THE ONE WHERE WE FIXED THE, THE GLITCH THAT THEY RECOMMENDED THE NEMA OSS FOUR BOX AS AN OPTION TO NOT FIELD AIR SEALING THE BOXES, WHICH IS CURRENT PRACTICE IS FIELD AIR SEALING. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT MADE IT TO THE CODE. IT SAID SHALL BE NEMA OSS FOUR, YOU KNOW, AT EIGHT BUCKS A BOX TIMES 65 BOXES. THAT'S A PROBLEM , NEEDLESS TO SAY. AND SO, UH, JUST THAT SIMPLY IN THE INTENT OF THE ORIGINAL CODE CHANGE WAS TO ALLOW THIS AS AN OPTION, BUT IT DIDN'T MAKE IT IN. AND SO THE STAFF HAS CHANGED THE LANGUAGE TO MAKE IT AN OPTION RATHER THAN A REQUIREMENT. YEAH, THAT THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR. THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION. DOES THAT, DOES THIS LANGUAGE SATISFY THE COMMITTEE THAT IT MET WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT? YES, IT'S ROBERT HENLEY. I MOVE APPROVAL AS AMENDED. THANK YOU ROBERT. BRIAN SMITH. SECOND. THANKS BRIAN. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. ANY ABSTENTIONS, UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU. AND THEN, UH, 47 PLEASE. MORE INSULATION. GOOD. R 4 0 3 0.31. CAN YOU CALL IT OUT ONE MORE TIME? I'M SORRY, MARK THREE. THAT'S CORRECT. FOR R 4 0 3 0.31, IT'S ON [01:20:01] PAGE R FOUR DASH 10. UH, MY NOTE SAYS WE TABLED IT FOR INFORMATION ON PRICING R SIX VERSUS R EIGHT DUCT INSULATION BASICALLY. AND WE HAVE AN EXISTING AMENDMENT ON THIS ONE THAT ALLOWS THAT A TRADE OFF FOR THE INCREASED SEER RATING. THIS WAS ABOUT THE SEER RATING. AND IF YOU TIE IT TO THE SEA RATING OR MAKE SPECIFY THE C RATING. 'CAUSE THE SEA RATING IS ALWAYS GOING UP AND UP AND UP. YEAH. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S CURRENTLY IT'S 15. I BELIEVE IT'S STILL LAYS CURRENTLY, I BELIEVE IT'S OVER 14. 14. OKAY. AND WE'RE, WELL, I'M GONNA SPEAK FOR OURSELVES. WE'RE 15 FOR ELECTRIC, 16 FOR GAS. AND SO THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN IS THAT, UM, EVERYBODY THAT'S PUTTING IN R SIX NOW, BECAUSE THEY'RE EXCEEDING THE SEER STANDARD, WHEN THE SEER STANDARD CHANGES, THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE ABLE TO PUT IN R SIX UNLESS THEY INCREASED THE, THE SEER RATING AND, AND RATCHETED IT UP WITH IT. AND I THINK THE DISCUSSION WAS LAST TIME, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M, I'M WRONG ON THAT, ON THIS, UM, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, COSTS ARE INCREASING EXPONENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, IF IT, IF IT R SIX IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR A C 15 RIGHT NOW, WHY WOULDN'T R SIX BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR A C 15 NEXT YEAR? UM, EVEN THOUGH THE STANDARDS CHANGED. AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE ISSUE IS ALSO, UM, SEA RATINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE, LIKE YOU SAID, PER MANUFACTURER. YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA CHANGE IN JANUARY, BUT YOU WOULD ALSO INCREASE WITH IT. I THINK AMIN MENTIONED THAT YOU WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING THE WAY THE AMENDMENT, SO THEN YOU WOULD, AS IT GOES UP, GOES UP LIKE A 14, MAYBE 14.2, YOU KNOW, NEXT YEAR. I BELIEVE THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO REMOVE THE AMENDMENT AND JUST REQUIRE R EIGHT, UH, DUCT INSULATION OR CHANGE IT TO R SIX IN, IN AN AMENDMENT. BECAUSE THE SEER ON ALL NEW CONSTRUCTION, IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE AT THAT HIGHER LEVEL ANY ANYWAY. CORRECT? CORRECT. OR YOU COULD LEAVE THE 2018 LANGUAGE WITHOUT THE EXCEPTION AND THE 2018 LANGUAGE ALLOWS THAT R SIX STILL, BUT YOU JUST HAVE TO MAKE UP THAT EFFICIENCY SOMEWHERE ELSE, WHICH IS FAIRLY SMALL. SO ANY YEAR PERFORMANCE PATH HOMES, WHICH ARE 90% OF YOUR HOMES COULD, WOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT. R SIX, AGAIN, THERE'S NO GREAT ANSWER TO THIS ONE. I DON'T THINK IT'D PROBABLY BE EASIER JUST TO LEAVE IT AS WRITTEN IN THE CODE. BUT THAT'S MY TOEING THE COMPANY LINE. HOW MUCH POWER IS SAVED BY GOING IN THE DECK SYSTEM FROM R SIX TO R EIGHT? I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT IT'S PREPOSTEROUS. I MEAN, OF ALL THESE R VALUES THAT WE CALL OUT IN THE CODE, THE DUCT R VALUE IS THE LOWEST IN OUR 145 DEGREE ATTIC. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SO, SO I, TO ME JUST KIND OF COMMON SENSE TELLS ME, WELL WE DON'T WANT THE LOWEST R VALUE WITH THE BIGGEST DELTA T SO TO ME, I I IT'S HOW DUCKS ARE AND R 13 ALREADY IS KIND OF CRAZY. UM, SO I, I WOULD RECOMMEND R EIGHT, BUT AGAIN, WELL JUST IN ORDER TO MOVE FAST, I I I THINK WE DELETE THE AMENDMENT AND I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND, AND IT, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA FAIL. I MEAN, DO WE WANNA TALK MORE? I MEAN, I KNOW WE BEAT THIS ONCE, SO DO WE JUST WANT TO KILL IT OR NOT? I, I, I'M JUST GONNA MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DELETE THE CITY AMENDMENT AND ADOPT IT AS WRITTEN. SO THAT WOULD JUST BASICALLY SAY R EIGHT. YEAH. ROBERT HANLEY SECOND TO MOTION. OKAY, SO THERE'S A MOTION AND A SECOND. UM, WHAT WAS THE COST DIFFERENCE ON OUR R SIX TO R EIGHT? COUPLE GRAND. COUPLE GRAND. MM-HMM. , I MEAN, I, I JUST, YOU'RE THE CHEAP, THE CHEAPER COST COMPARABLE TO DOING THAT, EVEN THOUGH THE DUCT WORK IS MUCH DIFFERENT. SO MY THOUGHT WOULD BE, YEAH, I, I MEAN GREG, I APPRECIATE THAT. I JUST, TO ME IT JUST FEELS GROSSLY IRRESPONSIBLE TO KNOWINGLY ADD $6,000. THE COST [01:25:01] OF CONSTRUCTION AT A TIME WHERE 6,000 ON A RESIDENTIAL, THERE'S NO WAY IT'S 2000. WELL, EVEN TO 2000, I'M GONNA ARGUE THAT IT'S NOT 2000. YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING A DOLLAR A FOOT OF DUCT PROBABLY ON FLEX DUCT. I MEAN, IF YOU'RE TALKING HARD DUCK, MAYBE FOR THREE TO 5,000 SQUARE FOOT HOME IT'S AT LEAST 2000. THAT'S A THREE TO 5,000 OR WHAT'S OUR AVERAGE HOME IN CA IN, IN SAN ANTONIO'S? 2,500. 2,500. SO WE'RE, SO THAT'S WHY I GOT MY TWO GRAND. OKAY. BUT THAT'S VERY, VERY FEW HOSES. I TWO GRAND TO A UNAFFORDABLE HOUSES. THAT'S GONE. WHAT WE ON A 1300 SQUARE FOOT HOME. $250. YEAH. YOU'RE TALKING A FEW DOLLARS ON A, ON A TYPICAL HOLIDAY. NO, THAT, THAT'S THE COST OF DOING IT. BY THE TIME THAT COST GETS PASSED ON TO THE CONSUMER, YOU'RE LOOKING ABOUT THREE TO 400. YOU ADD ALL THESE THINGS UP. SO MY FAVORITE THING, IT'S ONLY, SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN I DID MY DAUGHTER'S WEDDING, MY WIFE TOLD ME IT'S ONLY, AND BY THE TIME THE END OF THE, IT'S ONLY CAME THROUGH, IT'S JUST A COMPROMISE. IS A COMPROMISE FROM IF THE 16TH, WELL THEN, THEN LET'S KILL IT. 'CAUSE THEN I ALREADY, I MADE A MOTION. LET'S VOTE AND THEN YOU WANT ME TO WITHDRAW IT THEN WE'LL TALK MORE. OR WHAT, WHAT ARE WE GONNA HAVE TO SAY TO GO? YOU CAN DO THAT. YOU CAN WITHDRAW. WITHDRAW THE MOTION. OKAY, THEN WE'LL WITHDRAW IT RIGHT NOW. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT SOME MORE. ROBERT LEYS. AGREED. OKAY, THANKS. SO DO YOU WANNA JUST KEEP THE, THE, THE AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN BASICALLY? JUST AS IF YOU EXCEED THE C RATING YOU GET TO HAVE LOWER OUR VALUES. I MEAN THAT WOW. THE WISDOM OF THE 2018 CITY OF SAN ANTONIO ENERGY COMMITTEE. IT WAS ALL THAT GOOD WORK Y'ALL DID LAST TIME. MOST. OKAY, SO PRODUCTION ONES I'M WORRIED ABOUT. SO DO WE JUST WANNA HAVE A MOTION THAT, THAT WE WILL JUST KEEP THE AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN SO IT DOESN'T MATTER CRITERIA? I'M SORRY, WHAT'D YOU SAY? I'D ACCEPT A MOTION TO KEEP THE AMENDMENT AS WRITTEN. WELL, I, I'M GONNA ADD ONE. HANG ON. I'M GONNA ADD ONE MORE PIECE TO THIS. 'CAUSE I TEXTED THIS IN ONE OF THE ONES AND, AND SOME, IF, IF AN R SIX GETS IN CONTACT WITH BLOWN IN INSULATION, YOU CAN END UP WITH CONDENSATION ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE VAPOR BARRIER. SO THAT'S ONE THING THAT, THAT WHY I'M ADVOCATING TO GO UP TO THE R EIGHT BECAUSE IT HELPS MINIMIZE THAT. SO IF WE'VE GOT FLEX DUCT LAYING, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE TIED UP AND ALL THE OTHER FUN STUFF THAT'S PART OF IT WHEN INSPECT IT SO THAT THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S NOT NO, IT DOES. YOU CAN LAY IT ON THE JOISTS. FLEX DUCT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TIED UP. SHE'S TALKING ABOUT ON INSULATION. YEAH. BUT IT CAN BE LAID ON THE INSULATION AND ACTUALLY YOU COULD BURY IT IN THE INSULATION AND GET THAT'S A DISASTER. YEAH. WELL, IF DONE RIGHTS, NOBODY THINKS THAT'S A GOOD IDEA TO BURY IT IN THE INSULATION. BUT WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS, IS YOU DON'T HAVE A VAPOR BARRIER AND YOU END UP DROPPING BELOW DEW POINT ON THE PLASTIC ON THE OUTSIDE OF IT, AND THEN YOU END UP WITH WATER. YEAH. IT HAS TO BE FLAWLESS. YOU DO. AND THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY THIS IS MAKING THAT JUMP TO R EIGHT. SO A MOTION BRIAN SMITH TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT IT. UH, WELL THE AMENDMENT. OKAY. SO JUST CONTINUE THE AMENDMENT? YES. OKAY. WELL WE CAN'T DO THAT 'CAUSE SEARS' GONE. NO, IT'S ONE SEA, ONE HIGHER SENIOR EFFECTIVE JANUARY, I THINK JANUARY 1ST, DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU'RE AT IN THE UNITED STATES WHEN, WHERE'S THE CODE GOING? YEAH, BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE OLD EQUIPMENT AND NEW EQUIPMENT THAT HAS DIFFERENT MARK. THEN WE NEED TO DO BOTH. CAN WE JUST PUT OR EQUIP OR EQUIVALENT, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE THE EQUIVALENT. THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT EQUIVALENT EITHER. NOW IF YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE 1.0 SR OR SR TWO ABOVE MINIMUM FEDERAL MINIMUMS, THEN WE'D BE COVERED. OKAY. SO DO YOU WANNA WITHDRAW YOUR MOTION? I'D LIKE TO WITHDRAW THAT, BUT, BUT ADD WHAT? YES. WHAT YOU SAID ON THE, ON THE SR. SO, SO WHAT I SAID IS, IS THE AMENDMENT WOULD, THE CITY AMENDMENT WOULD JUST BE CHANGED INSTEAD OF SEASONAL ENERGY EFFICIENCY RATIO. UH, WHAT DID WE SAY IS 1.0 HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM FEDERAL? IT'LL BE THE SEER OR SR TWO. AND YOU COULD EVEN GIVE 'EM MORE FLEXIBILITY AND JUST SAY, BECAUSE SOME MANUFACTURERS MIGHT HAVE A 15 TWO, SOME MIGHT HAVE A 15 FOUR. UM, JUST WHERE THE, WHERE THE, WHERE THE EFFICIENCY IS OF THE EQUIPMENT IS HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM REQUIRED. THAT'S PROBABLY EASIER THAN, THAN TO GO WITH THAT. OKAY. SO WE'RE GONNA, UH, THE MOTION IS TO AMEND THE CURRENT AMENDMENT TO, UH, CLARIFY OR TO BE GENERAL, TO ALLOW IT TO JUST EXCEED THE MINIMUM STANDARD, WHATEVER THAT STANDARD HAPPENS TO BE AT THE TIME. THAT'S THE MOTION. CAN I GET A SECOND? YEAH. [01:30:02] WE'RE NOT GONNA APPROVE THE LANGUAGE RIGHT NOW. THAT WOULD, THEY CAN COME BACK AND GIVE US THE LANGUAGE OF POINT. OH. WHAT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN 1.0. OKAY, WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? JOE, CAN I GET YOUR OPINION ON THAT? SINCE Y'ALL, YOU'RE REPRESENTING A, A HUGE NUMBER OF HOMES IN THIS CITY. I'M OKAY WITH THE 1.0. UH, WE CURRENTLY, LIKE, I BELIEVE IT'S 14 CURRENTLY NOW. AND WE'RE DOING, LIKE I SAY, WE'RE DOING 15 FOR THE ELECTRIC AND WE DECIDED TO DO 16 WITH THE GAS, BUT AT ONE POINT. OH. BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU'RE 0.9 THEN IT DOESN'T, YOU'D HAVE TO GO UP TO THE NEXT. IT'S HARD TO SAY RIGHT NOW. IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE I KNOW THIS RATINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE IN JANUARY OF NEXT YEAR. SO THIS IS, YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE FULL PROOF. GREG DOES THE, WHEN WE DO THIS NEW STANDARD, DOES THE SCALE CHANGE OR IS THE SCALE THE SAME SCALE? THE SCALE IS GONNA CHANGE. IT, IT, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE GOING FROM POUNDS TO KILOGRAMS. IT'S LIKE, SO DOES A 1.0 FOR SEER IS NOT A ONE POINT. WHY DON'T WE DO 1.0. OKAY. SO WHY, WHY DO WE, WHY NOT 16? 'CAUSE 16 SEER IS DEAD AFTER JANUARY 1ST. I'M JUST, WE'RE DOING FOR THREE YEARS, SO I'M JUST, I'M TRYING TO GET SOMETHING WHERE IT WORKS. WELL, THAT'S WHY I'M JUST SAYING WE GO BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE'S POINT. IF WE MAKE IT 1.0, THEN WE'RE ACTUALLY GETTING A TRADE OFF. BUT MY, MY QUESTION IS, WHAT IS 1.0 IF THE SCALE CHANGES? WHAT DOES 1.0 MEAN? WHAT'S THE UNION OF MEASURE? WELL, YOU'RE 1.0 BETTER IF THE FEDERAL MINIMUM IS 14 SR. AND I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT THE NEW COMING OUT IS, IS LET'S SAY IT'S 16.1 SR TWO, AS LONG AS IT'S ONE BETTER. SO NOW WE HAVE TO DO S PLUS ONE. YOU'D HAVE TO DO 17 INSR, TWO OR 15 INS. I'M, I'M, WELL THERE'S, THERE'S NO REALLY, I'M LOOKING, I'M LOOKING TO GET TO THE 16 FOR THIS CODE CYCLE FROM 14. AND IF IT'S MINIMAL, WE CAN GET PEOPLE AT 16. WELL, IF YOU'RE DOINGS, YOU'D BE ABOVE MY 1.0. WHAT I'M TRYING TO STOP IS PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA GO IF THE, IF THE FEDERAL MINIMUM IS 14 THAT THEY PUT IN A 14.1 AND NOW THEY CAN TAKE THE EXCEPTION THAT'S, THAT'S NOT AN ENERGY TRADE OFF. I'M 0.0 16 SEARED MINIMUM JUST FOR THE, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. JUST FOR THE SAKE OF, OF, OF OF PROCESS HERE. WE HAVE A MOTION, BUT WE STILL LACK A SECOND ON THAT MOTION. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT, IF IS THAT GONNA HAPPEN OR IN 16? SEER WON'T EXIST IN JANUARY ANYMORE. IT'LL BE SEER TWO IS THE PROBLEM. OKAY. SO WITH RESERVATION, AND, AND AGAIN, WE'VE SAVED THIS BEFORE, BUT THIS BODY IS DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY AND THEN WE'RE GONNA BRING THIS TO THE MAIN BOARD AND AT THAT TIME WE COULD STILL ADJUST IT. IF WE'D HAD, TO ME, IN THIS MEETING OF, OF SOMETHING OF THIS COMPLEXITY, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY HAVE A FEW MECHANICAL PEOPLE HERE THAT CAN REALLY TELL US INSTEAD OF US TELLING EACH, HAVING THESE AMBIGUOUS NUMBERS. MM-HMM. , I'LL SECOND IT FOR THE, TO GET THIS MOVING FORWARD, BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE REVISITED AND I'LL CERTAINLY MAKE CONTACT. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, AFTER THE FACT ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS GETS PASSED AND YOU GET THE MECHANICAL CONTRACTORS GOING, WHAT THE HELL Y'ALL JUST DO, YOU KNOW? SO, SO IS THE MOTION I'M TRYING TO GET TO THE MOTION WAS NOT 1.0. THE MOTION WAS JUST HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW FOR CLIMATE TWO. THAT'S THE MOTION, THAT'S THE SECOND. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE. OKAY. THIS IS AMIN THOMAS, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN WHAT IS THE NEW RATING STARTING JANUARY 1ST? WHO KNOWS? SO IS IT C TWO? IT'S C TWO. AND IF IT'S C C TWO, IS THERE C THREE? NO. SO WHEN WE SAY ONE POINT HIGHER, THEN THAT DOESN'T EXIST. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE, WE ARE UNDERSTANDING. OKAY, WE HAVE SOMEBODY, GO AHEAD. IF YOU CAN JUST SAY YOUR NAME FIRST AND TELL US WHO YOU ARE AND, HI LENA HERE. LENA LUCA WITH BILL SAN ANTONIO GREEN. SO THE, THE CHANGE THAT'S HAPPENING IN JANUARY 1ST, IT'S GONNA BE DIVIDED IN TWO SECTIONS. ONE IS IF YOU ARE UNDER 45 BTUS, IT'S A DIFFERENT SET OF CRITERIA. AND THEN IF YOU'RE ABOVE 45 K BTS, THEN IT'S ANOTHER SET OF CRITERIA. SO TWO DIFFERENT SIZE SYSTEMS. SO RIGHT NOW IN JANUARY, IF [01:35:01] YOU HAVE AN AIR AND THEN, THEN YOU HAVE CRITERIA FOR AIR CONDITIONER, HEAT PUMP, AND THEN SPLIT SYSTEMS. SO FOR AIR CONDITIONER IT'S C 15. THAT WILL BE THE NEW CRITERIA IN JANUARY 1ST. AND THAT EQUALS TO A C O TWO OF 14.3. AND THEN SAME THING FOR THE HEAT PUMP. AND THAT'S BASED ON OUR CLIMATE ZONE. THAT'S JUST THE SHORT END. SO MAYBE THE LANGUAGE WILL BE, IT COULD BE IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT MINIMUM, MINIMUM STANDARD SEA POINT, UH, UH, JASON, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU AGREE WITH THAT OR IT WOULDN'T BE A SEER POINT THOUGH. IT'D BE A SEER TWO POINT C TWO POINT MM-HMM. . YEAH. OR EQUIVALENT SOMEONE THROUGH THE WORD OR EQUIVALENT OF THE NEW RATING. OR, OR MAYBE, YOU KNOW, GREG LIKES THE ONE MAYBE MEET, I'M ALWAYS LIKING MEETING IN THE MIDDLE, MAYBE 0.5 AT LEAST 0.5 C TWO GREATER THAN THE MINIMUM FEDERAL EFFICIENCY. IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S A TERMINOLOGY WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH 10% MORE EFFICIENT, WELL NO 0.5, 5% MORE EFFICIENT, THEN THAT WOULD BE LIKE A 12 SEER OR A 14 SEER WOULD JUMP BY, YOU KNOW, 14.75% WORKS. THERE'S A POINT WHERE WE MAKE THIS WAY MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT NEEDS TO BE. ISN'T, I MEAN, I, I THINK ORIGINALLY WE SAID TO KEEP, I MEAN THE ORIGINAL AMENDMENT THAT WAS PASSED IN 2018 BY THE, THOSE WISE SOULS BASICALLY SAID EXCEED THE STANDARD. AND THAT'S WORKED FOR THE CITY FOR THREE, THREE PLUS YEARS. UM, 'CAUSE WE'RE BEHIND A LITTLE BIT ON THIS CYCLE. UM, ORIGINALLY WE TALKED ABOUT CHANGING, REMOVING SEER BECAUSE THE SEER IS NO LONGER THE STANDARD, BUT THAT WAS GONNA BE THE ONLY CHANGE BECAUSE IT'S JUST EXCEED THE STANDARD YOU GET TO, TO DO THE R SIX VERSUS THE R EIGHT. I TEND TO THINK THAT KEEPING IT VAGUE LIKE THAT IS A MUCH BETTER MECHANISM BECAUSE THESE THINGS ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO CHANGE. THERE'S CONFUSION OBVIOUSLY. I MEAN, WE HAVE FIVE OR SIX DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON WHAT THIS MAY OR MAY NOT MEAN. THE SCALES MAY OR MAY NOT CHANGE, YOU KNOW, THE MOTION. AND THE SECOND IS TO KEEP IT AS WRITTEN, UH, WITH JUST THE, THE CHANGE OF REMOVING SPECI, SPECIFYING SEER AND JUST SAYING HIGHER THAN THE MINIMUM SAM, OR I MEAN, I VOTE. SO IN FAVOR OF THAT, SAY AYE. AYE, AYE. DO WE NEED HANDS UP? ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. NO. SOUNDS LIKE JUST ONE. NO WITH GREG. UH, ANY ABSTENTIONS, , NONE. SO THAT PASSES AND WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK. UM, BEFORE WE GET INTO THE NEW STUFF, UH, THANKS, UH, REAL QUICK CHAIR. SO BEFORE WE GET INTO THE NEW STUFF, I, I THINK DID EVERY TABLE ITEM, WE DID AN INDIVIDUAL VOTE, THERE'S NOTHING WE NEED TO CORRECT. WE DID INDIVIDUAL ON EVERY SINGLE ONE. ALRIGHT, PERFECT. LEMME MAKE SURE WE HAD THAT. THANK YOU. I ALSO HAVE THE LANGUAGE, UM, FOR THAT 4 0 5 POINT 12 FOR THE ENERGY MONITORING. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT THAT REAL QUICK. SO BEFORE WE BREAK, WE'LL LOOK AT THAT. THANKS. THANKS CRYSTAL. AND THAT WAS, WHICH ITEM AGAIN? THAT WAS ITEM 29. SO I HAVE IT HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW, BUT I'LL, I'LL TAKE OFF THE YELLOW SO IT'S EASIER TO READ. AND THE, THE, THE ITEMS THAT ARE STRUCK OUT ARE EXISTING CODE AND THE UNDER UNDERLYING ITEMS IS WHAT WE WOULD BE ADDING. SO THE SECTION, UM, EXCEPTION THREE ON, WAS IT 4 0 5 12 3? I THINK. DOES THAT NOT HAVE TO BE CHANGED? THE ONE THAT SAYS THAT THAT HAS THE 2,500, UM, MINIMUM IT'S AN EXCEPTION DOWN BELOW IT. SO THE EXCEPTION TO ALL OF THESE SECTIONS IS IF YOU ARE 10,000 SQUARE FEET FOR AN R TWO OCCUPANCY OR AN INDIVIDUAL TENANT SPACE IN OTHER OCCUPANCIES. SO IF YOU MEET THAT EXCEPTION, YOU DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THIS. IF YOU WANT TO INCREASE THAT ONE AS WELL, WE, WE NEVER SPECIFY 25 OR 2,500 TO ANOTHER NUMBER. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT EXCEPTION IS MOOT IF, IF WE'VE ALREADY ACCEPTED THE OTHER ONES. OKAY. THAT WOULD, THAT'S MY INTERPRETATION OF, OF THE INTENT OF THE DISCUSSION. ROBERT HANLEY MOVE APPROVAL GREG MCFARLAND. AND SECOND, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? ALL RIGHT, ALL IN FAVOR? I SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. UH, ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. ANY EXCEPTION, ABSTENTIONS. AND WE MISSED BRIAN ON THIS VOTE, BUT OTHERWISE IT WAS OTHERWISE UNANIMOUS. THANK YOU GREG. I GUESS, JOE, DID YOU VOTE ON THAT ONE FOR BRIAN WHILE HE WAS OUT IN FAVOR? OKAY, PERFECT. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, NOW WE'LL TAKE OUR 10 MINUTE BREAK. THANK YOU CRYSTAL. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND, UH, RECONVENE. [01:40:02] ALRIGHT, THANK YOU CHAIR. SO THAT CONCLUDES AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, UH, DISCUSSION OF THE INTERNATIONAL C ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE. UM, I THINK WE'VE GONE THROUGH ALL THE RECOMMENDED CHANGES. UH, IF WE DO HAVE ANY FOLLOW-UP MEETINGS, I, UM, I THINK WE'VE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AT THIS TIME TABLED, BUT I'LL PROBABLY STILL HAVE THIS ON THE AGENDA. AND JUST IN CASE ANYTHING DOES COME UP AS WE CONTINUE THESE ENERGY MEETINGS SPECIFICALLY, WE ADDED THESE TWO ADDITIONAL MEETINGS ORIGINALLY WHEN WE WERE PUBLISHING ALL THE MEETINGS, UH, OUT AND ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO. THE ORIGINAL ONE STARTED NEXT WEEK. UH, SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IF ANYBODY WAS FOLLOWING THAT TWO MONTHS AGO AND PLANNING TO COME MEET WITH THIS COMMITTEE TO DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE ENERGY CODE, THAT THAT'S STILL ON THE AGENDA. THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO COME AND TALK TO THE COMMITTEE. SO, UH, WE'LL HAVE THAT ON THE AGENDA AS AS MOVING FORWARD FOR THE TIME. IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT THIS WOULD BE THE LAST MEETING FOR THE ENERGY CODE ? IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS. GUYS. I JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW HONEST AND TRANSPARENT Y'ALL WERE. I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN IT'S UP TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT LIKE I SAID, I MEAN ORIGINALLY WE HAD THREE SCHEDULED, UH, THAT WE HAD OUT THERE MANY MONTHS WHEN WE KIND OF PLANNED OUT ALL OF THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS FOR ALL THE CODES. WE ADDED THESE TWO BECAUSE WE FELT LIKE WE THREE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ENOUGH WHEN WE STARTED GETTING INTO THESE NEXT TWO ITEMS. UH, SO YEAH, IT'S UP TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT I, I THINK STAFF RECOMMENDATION WILL AT LEAST HAVE ONE OF THOSE ORIGINAL THREE MEETINGS. SO, UH, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID WITH THE I R C, WHEN WE KIND OF GOT AHEAD OF THE I R C, WE WENT AHEAD AND HAD ONE MEETING JUST TO SAY, LOOK, THIS WAS ORIGINALLY ON THE SCHEDULE, IF YOU DO HAVE ANYTHING AND REALLY BUSTED OUT THERE TO THE STAKEHOLDER. SO AT THE END OF THIS MEETING, WE FEEL LIKE WE MIGHT ONLY HAVE ONE LEFT STAFF WILL REALLY PUSH IT OUT THERE AND SAY, LOOK, YOU KNOW, THIS MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONE LEFT. SO IF YOU DO HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY, PLEASE EITHER COME TO THIS MEETING OR PROVIDE SOME FEEDBACK TO US AND WE CAN PRESENT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE. AND I JUST WANT TO APPLAUD DOUG MELNICK BEING HERE FOR ALL OF THIS TIME, WAITING THIS VERY PATIENTLY, DOUG. SO , WHAT WAS THAT? APPLAUD YOU FOR SITTING HERE THROUGH ALL THE OTHER STUFF FOR TWO HOURS . SO BEFORE WE MOVE TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, SO THAT CONCLUDES THE ENERGY CONSERVATION CODE. WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IS ALSO WE HAVE THE I R C. SO THE I R C DOES HAVE SOME CHAPTERS THAT DISCUSS SPECIFICALLY THE ENERGY REQUIREMENTS FOR RESIDENTIAL, UH, ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. UH, WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THAT. THERE'S OTHER CHAPTERS FOR THE M E P UH, TRADES. HISTORICALLY, THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO HAS ADOPTED ONLY THE MECHANICAL CHAPTERS OF THAT. WE DISCUSSED SOME OF THE, UH, CHAPTERS WITH THE PLUMBING CODE UNDER THE ELECTRICAL CODE COMMITTEE. THEY KIND OF TABLED AND SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE REALLY DON'T THINK THAT WORKS. WE REALLY LIKED THE EXISTING SY SYSTEM OF RUNNING EVERYTHING THROUGH THE N E C FOR THE ELECTRICAL. AND THEIR RECOMMENDATION WHEN THEY GO TO THE FULL BOARD IS GONNA BE KINDA KEEP IT AS WAS, WHICH WE WOULD ADOPT THE ME UH, THE MECHANICAL CODE. BUT I WANTED TO COME TO THIS COMMITTEE AS WELL. UH, WE DON'T HAVE AN OFFICIAL AGENDA ITEM FOR THIS, BUT WANTED TO GET A CONSENSUS FROM THE COMMITTEE. DO WE WANT TO HAVE ON THE NEXT MEETING AN AGENDA ITEM, SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY ADOPTING THE I R C CHAPTERS ABOUT ENERGY CODE ONLY AND GET A FEEDBACK FROM FROM Y'ALL ON THAT? CAN I, THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO HAVE ANOTHER, SO THE I R C CHAPTERS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ENERGY, ENERGY EFFICIENCY, WOULD Y'ALL BE WILLING TO, DO Y'ALL WANT TO CONSIDER ADOPTING THOSE AS ENFORCEMENT AS WELL? ARE ONLY USING THE ENERGY, UH, THE I E C C AS THE CODE FOR BOTH COMMERCIAL AND ALL, PRETTY MUCH ANY BUILDING, UM, ACROSS THE BOARD. IF Y'ALL WANT TO ADOPT THOSE CHAPTERS, THEN WE WOULD NEED TO PRESENT THOSE TO YOU. ANY RECOMMENDED CHANGES OR AMENDMENTS? DO THEY, JEREMY, CAN I ASK FOR A CLARIFICATION? I'M SORRY. YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT THE ENERGY PROVISIONS IN THE I R C DO NOT MATCH UP WITH THE I E C C? IT'S PRETTY MUCH WORD. UM, IT'S WORD AND WORD. IT IS VERBATIM. YEAH, IT'S VERBATIM. THEY ACTUALLY HAVE IN PARENTHESES THE SECTIONS IN THE I E C C. SO IF YOU'RE FOLLOWING ALONG IN THE I R C, IT'LL REFERENCE YOU REFERENCES THE, UM, I E C C SECTIONS. SO IF, IF IT'S REPETITIVE, IT SOUNDS LIKE I, IT SOUNDS LIKE THE CONSENSUS THAT WE, WE DON'T REALLY NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING TO REVIEW THOSE IF THEY'RE, IF IF IT'S JUST REPETITIVE. OKAY. SO WE WILL NOT MAKE, ALTHOUGH I WOULD LOVE TO TALK ABOUT INSULATION AGAIN, IF ANYBODY ELSE IS. SO WHATEVER CHANGES WE MADE, YOU'RE JUST GONNA MAKE THOSE SAME CHANGES IN I R C C. SO, WELL, NO, WE WOULD NOT ADOPT, ADOPT THOSE. IF THIS COMMITTEE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE, WE WOULD JUST NOT ADOPT THOSE CHAPTERS OF THE I R C. SO THIS, WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE DONE UNDER THE 2018. SO ANYTIME THAT SOMEBODY LOOKS AT ENERGY REQUIREMENTS, BOTH IN A COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, THEY WOULD GO TO THE I E C C AND THAT'S IT, AND NOT USE THE I R C CHAPTERS. HOW DON'T WE DO OUR LAST CYCLE? CORRECT. LAST, EXACTLY. SO LAST CYCLE, WE DID NOT ADOPT THOSE CHAPTERS, BUT WE WERE BRINGING IT UP TO ALL THE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES TO, YOU KNOW, AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS PROCESS, WE LOOKED AT, DO WE WANT TO JUST ADOPT THE FULL I R C AND HAVE HOME BUILDERS HAVE ONE BOOK AND THAT'S IT. BUT THROUGH THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEETINGS, THEY KIND OF SAID, WELL REALLY ELECT, YOU KNOW, ELECTRICAL. WHAT THEY SAID IN THAT COMMITTEE MEETING WAS THEY RUN OFF THE N E C. THAT'S USUALLY WHAT THEY HAVE. THEY DO THAT FROM WHEN THEY'RE DOING COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL. IF YOU TELL THEM WE'RE GONNA NOW ADOPT THE I R C, ARE THEY GONNA HAVE TO GO AND BUY A DIFFERENT BOOK AND NOW CARRY TWO BOOKS? SAME THING WITH OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT, OUR, OUR, OUR INSPECTORS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO THE CONSENSUS REALLY CAME FROM THE ELECTRICAL COMMITTEE TO KIND OF SAY, WE DON'T REALLY LIKE THAT IDEA. WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T WANNA ADOPT [01:45:01] THE ELECTRICAL, UH, CODE PLUMBING WAS ON THE FENCE, MECHANICAL IS GONNA ADOPT. BUT THAT'S THE SAME THING THAT WE DID IN 2018. SO WE DO, THOSE ARE THE ONLY CHAPTERS OF THE I R C THAT WE ADOPT IS BUILDING AND MECHANICAL. ALL THE OTHER CHAPTERS WE, WE DO NOT ADOPT AT THIS TIME. SO IN THE I R C, THERE'S ELECTRICAL REQUIREMENTS. YOU'RE NOT GONNA MAKE THEM REQUIRED FOR THE INSPECTIONS. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE N E C. SO WHATEVER THE N E C REQUIRES FOR A RESIDENTIAL ONE AND TWO FAMILY HOME, THAT'S WHAT THEY HAVE TO ENFORCE INSTEAD OF WHAT'S ALLOWED IN THE I R C IF THERE WERE ANY DIFFERENCES. OKAY. 'CAUSE THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST. THIS IS, UM, THIS IS EMIN, TOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. SO, UH, IN 2018 WE ADOPTED THE I R C ONLY THE BUILDING AND MECHANICAL. SO WE HAVE NOT ADOPTED THE PLUMBING, ELECTRICAL, OR ENERGY IN THE PAST. SO AGAIN, AS JEREMY SAID, WE WANTED TO OPEN THAT DOOR AND DISCUSSION WITH ALL THE PANELS THAT WE HAVE TO SEE, DO WE WANNA ADOPT THE I R C AS IS AS ONE BOOK? AND THE ELECTRICAL COMMITTEE SAID NO STICK WITH THE N E C, THE PLUMBING, THEY WERE ON THE EDGE, BUT WE STAYED WITH THE PLUMBING CODE MECHANICAL WE ADOPTED, AGAIN, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE DID IN 2018. AND NOW JEREMY'S QUESTION IS ABOUT ENERGY. DO WE WANNA KEEP IT LIKE 2018, THE ENERGY IS A SEPARATE BOOK, THE I E C C? OR DO WE WANNA ADOPT THE ENERGY AND THE I R C? THAT'S REALLY THE QUESTION. IT ULTIMATELY THIS YEAH, BY FAR THIS IS THE MOST CON YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE PLUMBING CODE AND THE INTER IN THE ELECTRICAL CODE, THERE IS SOME MINOR CHANGES. BUT YEAH, FOR THE ENERGY IT IS PRETTY MUCH VERBATIM. SO IT, IT WOULD BE MORE CLERICAL THAN ANYTHING. BUT ONCE AGAIN, SINCE WE OFFERED IT TO ALL THE OTHER COMMITTEES, I WANTED TO DO IT HERE. IF WE WERE DOING IT CONSISTENTLY ACROSS, I THINK WE WOULD'VE ADOPTED THOSE CHAPTERS JUST SO THAT THEY WOULD JUST HAVE ONE BOOK. BUT SINCE WE'RE NOT DOING IT ACROSS THE BOARD, STAFF RECOMMENDATION WOULD PROBABLY BE NOT TO DO IT, BUT OKAY. YEAH, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE CONSENSUS TO, TO JUST OKAY. NOT TO THAT. SO REALLY WHAT THAT MEANS IS WE WON'T ADD THAT TO ANY AGENDA ITEMS. THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT UNLESS THINGS CHANGE, UH, FROM THE COMMITTEE. OKAY. UH, JEREMY, UH, FOR AGENDA ITEM FOUR, DO WE HAVE A SPREADSHEET ON THAT OR NO? UH, WE DON'T HAVE A SPREADSHEET. WE HAVE THE RECOMMENDED CHANGES, UH, THAT KIND OF CAME THROUGH THAT I SENT TO THE COMMITTEE. SO THOSE ARE REALLY, UH, SINCE THEY ARE VERY SPECIFIC, IT'S JUST ALL THE CODE LANGUAGE THAT WAS DEVELOPED. AND I, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO ACTUALLY OUR DEPUTY DIRECTOR, I MEAN, TEMAS, TO KINDA GO INTO THE MORE DETAIL FOR THAT. ALRIGHT. GOOD MORNING, . THANK YOU FOR STAYING. ABSOLUTELY NOT JUST DOUG, EVERYBODY ELSE. UM, SO YES, ITEM FOUR IS BASICALLY TO DISCUSS THE 2021 INTERNATIONAL ENERGY CODE AND PROPOSED CHANGES FOR SOLAR READY PV SYSTEMS. AND I WILL JUMP INTO ITEM FIVE AS WELL. I WANNA TALK ABOUT BOTH OF THEM KIND OF THE SAME TIME. ITEM FIVE IS THE SAME THING, BUT IT'S IN REGARDS TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES. UH, NOT, NOT CV EV SORRY, UH, TYPO THERE. BUT ANYWAYS, THOSE TWO ITEMS. UM, WHEN WE ADOPTED THE 2018 CODE, UH, WHILE BACK, SOME OF YOU WERE ON THAT PANEL, OR MOST OF YOU, UM, AFTER WE FINISHED EVERYTHING, WE WENT TO COUNCIL TO ADOPT ALL THE CODES. UM, COUNCILMAN COURAGE ASKED US TO GO BACK AND REVIEW THE ENERGY CODE SPECIFICALLY IN REGARDS TO SOLAR READY AND EV READY. SO WE CREATED A TASK FORCE. WE STARTED MEETING LIKE I WOULD SAY MID 2018 OR SO. UH, WE, WE HAD MEETINGS UP TO EARLY 2020, UH, THEN COVID HIT. WE KIND OF PUT EVERYTHING ON HOLD BECAUSE THE CITY STOPPED MEETING IN PERSON. AND LIKE YOU SEE HERE WITH ANY CODES, IT'S EASIER TO MEET IN PERSON, DEBATE THINGS, TALK ABOUT IT, UH, DISCUSS IT. I'M NOT SAYING ARGUE ABOUT IT, DISCUSS IT. UM, SO WE DIDN'T WANNA DO IT ON WEBEX. IT'S HARD TO CONTROL THAT MEETING. IT'S HARD TO, AGAIN, DEBATE THINGS AND DISCUSS IT. SO THAT'S WHY EVERYTHING WAS ON HOLD. AND THEN OBVIOUSLY NOW WHEN WE STARTED PICKING UP THAT 2021 CODES, IT'S PERFECT TIME TO BRING THOSE TWO ITEMS AGAIN AND DISCUSS IT NOW AND SEE WHERE WE END UP WITH THOSE ITEMS BEFORE WE GO TO COUNCIL. SO ALL WHAT I'M GONNA DO TODAY IS ACTUALLY BRING WHAT WE OVERALL CAME UP WITH. AND I, I'M NOT SAYING WE ALL AGREED ON THAT IN 2019, BUT I HAVE SOME DRAFTS THAT WE KIND OF IDENTIFIED AND SOME PEOPLE LIKED IT, SOME PEOPLE DID NOT. I WANNA PRESENT THOSE AGAIN, JUST TO BRING YOU BACK UP TO THE POINT WE STOPPED MEETING, SAYING, HERE IS WHAT WE ENDED UP WITH. AND THEN FROM THAT POINT ON, WE CAN DISCUSS. FURTHERMORE, BEFORE I DO THAT, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO DOUG. UH, HE CAN HAVE A PRESENTATION THAT I THINK WE DID ONE EXTREMELY SIMILAR IF NOT THE SAME ONE, UH, AND AT THAT TIME, SO IT'S GOOD FOR HIM TO KIND OF JUST BRING YOU BACK UP TO LEVEL. UM, SO WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE AND THEN WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS. IS IT STILL MORNING, DOUG? GOOD MORNING. UH, DOUG MELNICK, CHIEF SUSTAINABILITY OFFICER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR, FOR GIVING ME [01:50:01] A FEW MINUTES. YEAH, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH EACH, UH, THE ENTIRE POWERPOINT. UM, BUT JUST AGAIN, TO GIVE YOU THE, THE FLAVOR OF, OF WHY, UM, COUNCIL IS INTERESTED IN THIS. UM, THE WORLD IS CHANGING AND JUST THE THOUGHT IS JUST HAVING A CONVERSATION AROUND IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY HERE TO GO TO THE NEXT SITE OR SO JUST, YOU KNOW, LAR YOU KNOW, BROAD GOALS. WE HAVE, WE HAVE PLANS, YOU KNOW, PLANS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, ARE REVOLVING AROUND, UM, CLIMATE SUSTAINABILITY, OUR SUSTAINABILITY PLAN, ESSAY CLIMATE READY, THAT, THAT IDENTIFIED, UH, THE, THE NEED TO LOOK AT READINESS. UM, YOU REALLY, THE, THE, THE OTHER BIG THING THAT'S HAPPENED RECENTLY IS, IS WE'VE, WE'RE LOOKING DOWN THE BARREL OF, UM, MODERATE NON-ATTAINMENT, UH, GETTING BUMPED UP FROM, FROM MARGINAL. SO THAT HAS MAJOR ECONOMIC IMPACTS. AND SO ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO TO REDUCE, UM, UH, THE, SOME OF THE PRECURSORS TO GROUND LEVEL OZONE HAS ECONOMIC, UH, BENEFIT AS WELL. UH, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, NEXT SLIDE. SO THIS IS REALLY THE BIG THING WHERE WE LOOK AT EVS, UM, OWNERSHIP IS EXPLODING. UM, UH, YOU CAN SEE FROM ENVIRONMENT TEXAS, UH, AND THIS IS OLD, THIS WAS ABOUT 2019, THAT THEY WERE PROJECTING ABOUT 40,000 EVS IN SAN ANTONIO BY 2030. THAT, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT C P S ENERGY WAS PROJECTING. WE SPOKE TO THEM EARLIER THIS YEAR. THAT NUMBER'S UPWARDS OF 75,000 VEHICLES. SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UM, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE SEEING, UH, RAPID, UH, UM, EV OWNERSHIP. AND SO THE QUESTION BECOMES WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR BUILDING STOCK? UM, WHAT DO WE DO TO ENSURE THAT THERE'S PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE CHARGING AS WELL AS, UM, A LOT OF CHARGING HAPPENS AT HOME, UM, OVERNIGHT. UH, SO AGAIN, IS THERE, IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY HERE? UH, NEXT SLIDE. CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT'S NEXT. UM, THIS JUST BASICALLY THE SHOWS THAT THERE'S A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN, UM, THE AVAILABILITY OF WORKPLACE CHARGING AND, UM, UH, EV OWNERSHIP. UH, WE'RE NOT EVEN ON THIS, THIS, THIS, UM, DIAGRAM, BUT YOU CAN SEE, UM, THE MORE, UM, PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE WORKFORCE, UM, UH, CHARGING DOES LEAD TO INCREASED, UH, EV UH, PENETRATION IN THE MARKET. AND WE KNOW THAT'S, THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT THINGS ARE GOING. UH, NEXT SLIDE. AND HERE'S JUST, AGAIN, THIS IS OLD, THIS HASN'T BEEN UPDATED, BUT HERE'S JUST A, A, A QUICK SNAPSHOT OF, UH, CURRENT EV READY CODES. WE'LL, WE'LL UPDATE THIS, THE, THIS DECK AND GET IT OVER TO YOU BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING. UM, JUST SO YOU HAVE IT. AND THEN, UH, THIS NEXT ONE AGAIN, UH, THIS NEXT SLIDE, THESE NUMBERS WILL HAVE CHANGED. AGAIN, THE MARKET IS, IS DIFFERENT. WE'RE, WE'RE DEALING WITH SOME MAJOR ECONOMIC ISSUES IN, IN, UH, WITH DEVELOPMENT RIGHT NOW. BUT REALLY THIS GETS DOWN TO THE COST OF, UM, UH, MAKING A, UH, A HOME OR, OR BUSINESS EV READY, UM, VERSUS, UH, RETROFITTING IT AFTER THE FACT. AND, AND AMIN, WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT WHAT DOES EV READY MEAN? BUT YOU KNOW, THIS ALSO GETS TO THE EQUITY IDEA, UH, OF, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT HOMEOWNERS CAN, CAN, UM, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE BENEFITS OR AT SOME POINT WE KNOW THAT MANUFACTURERS ARE GONNA STOP MANUFACTURING, UM, INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES. AND SO IS THE COST GOING TO BE PROHIBITIVE FOR SOMEBODY TO GO BACK AND RETROFIT THEIR HOUSE? AND HERE YOU CAN JUST SEE JUST SOME OF THE COMPARISONS BETWEEN, UM, COST FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION AND, AND, UM, AND, UM, RETROFIT, AGAIN, WE'LL HAVE TO DIG DEEPER INTO SORT OF THE LOCAL ASPECTS OF THESE COSTS. BUT SO THE, SO JUST, UH, THAT'S BASED UPON I HAVE. SO YEAH, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU BELIEVE IN THE NEXT 30 TO 50 YEARS, MANUFACTURERS ARE GOING TO QUIT PRODUCING BASED UPON OUR STATEMENTS FROM THOSE MEN? NOT, NOT, I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL THAT'S JUST DIRECTLY BASED UPON, UM, STATEMENTS FROM, UH, LARGE AUTO DEALERS. WHETHER IT'LL HAPPEN OR NOT, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE STATING. NEXT SLIDE. UM, THEN WE'LL JUST SHIFT INTO SOLAR. AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, UM, WE'VE SEEN, UM, THE COST OF SOLAR, UH, UM, RAPIDLY DECREASE. UH, C P S IS TALKING ABOUT PHASING OUT, UM, SOLAR REBATES JUST BECAUSE THERE'S THAT MARKET PENETRATION ALREADY. UM, THE OTHER THING THAT WE'VE SEEN IS, UM, FOLLOWING, UH, WINTER STORM URI, THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST, UM, UH, FOR, FOR PEOPLE TO, TO GET SOLAR, UM, ON THEIR HOMES OR BUSINESSES. UM, AND I THINK DISTRIBUTED SOLAR IS A KEY, UH, ASPECT OF, UM, CPSS LONG-TERM STRATEGY. SO AGAIN, UH, COST OF, OF MAKING THESE HOMES, UM, SOLAR READY VERSUS GOING BACK AND, AND REHABBING. UH, NEXT SLIDE. UH, WE'LL SKIP THAT ONE. I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE THIS MAP IS, NEEDS TO BE UPDATED, BUT IT'S NOT EVERYWHERE. UM, SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL UPDATE THIS MAP, [01:55:01] UH, FOR THE NEXT MEETING. AND THEN NEXT SLIDE. AGAIN, SIMILAR, UM, BASED UPON THE RESEARCH THAT WE'VE DONE, WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATIONS TO GET, UH, MORE ACCURATE LOCAL, UM, FIGURES, BUT AGAIN, UM, SIGNIFICANT, UM, COST DIFFERENTIAL, UH, BETWEEN, UM, UH, BUILDING, UH, WITH THE NECESSARY COMPONENTS TO MAKE SOMETHING READY, UH, TO, UH, ACCEPT SOLAR AS OPPOSED TO GOING BACK AND RETROFITTING. AND I THINK THAT'S, YEAH. AND SO THAT'S JUST MY QUICK SNAPSHOT. AGAIN, IT'S PRIORITY. UM, UH, BUT YOU KNOW, WE DEFINITELY NEED TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS AROUND SORT OF THE COST AND BENEFITS. MARK, YOU HAD A QUESTION? YEAH. WHEN YOU BRING THIS BACK AND YOU'RE GIVING TOSSING OUT THESE FIGURES OF DIFFERENT IN WHAT THE COSTS ARE, CAN YOU PROVIDE A DETAIL OF HOW YOU ANALYSIS SURE. OF EXACTLY HOW YOU ARRIVED AT IT, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ABSOLUTELY THANK, YEAH, THIS WAS JUST A HIGH LEVEL, BUT YES. WE'LL, WE'LL MAKE SURE WE PROVIDE THAT BACK UP. SO, I MEAN, AS A KIND OF A PROCEDURAL QUESTION TO YOU, SO THIS IS A BRIEFING, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING, SO WE, THIS COMMITTEE'S DONE ITS WORK WITH THE I E C C AS PRESENTED, RIGHT? I MEAN, AS THE, THE CODE BOOK OF ANYTHING THAT, THAT WILL, WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE FULL BOARD AND THEN TO THE COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. WHERE DOES THIS FIT IN WITH THAT? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ADOPTING AN, UH, AN APPENDIX OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ADDING LANGUAGE? JUST CLARIFY FOR THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE WHAT, WHAT THE, WHAT THE PLAN IS. SURE. SO BASICALLY, UM, THIS IS, THESE TWO ITEMS ARE STILL PART OF THE DISCUSSION WITH THIS PANEL. UM, SO ONE OF THEM IS BASICALLY, AGAIN, THE SOLAR READY. THE SOLAR READY IS AN AN APPENDIX IN THE BOOK RIGHT NOW. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IT, WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS IT AND DECIDE DO WE WANNA ADOPT THAT OR NOT? DO WE WANNA MODIFY IT OR NOT? AND ALL THOSE THINGS. AND THEN COME UP WITH RECOMMENDATION TO TAKE TO THE FULL BOARD THEN TO CANCEL. NOW, EVIE, UM, ELECTRIC VEHICLES, IT'S NOT IN THE BOOK AT ALL. IT'S NOT IN THE CODE OR IN THE APPENDIX. UM, IN 20 18, 20 21, THERE WAS DISCUSSION, UH, AT THE I C C LEVEL TO ADD FEW THINGS INTO THE CODE, BUT, UH, IT WAS NOT ADDED INTO THE 2021. UM, I'M ACTUALLY ON, ON A COMMITTEE, THE COMMERCIAL COMMITTEE FOR I I E C C 2024. AND THERE IS A BIG DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT, AND THEY'RE LOOKING AT ADDING A FULL SECTION IN, UH, CHAPTER 4, 4 0 5 FOR, UH, EV ON BOTH, UH, RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL. BUT AGAIN, THAT'S 2024. I DUNNO IF IT'S GONNA GO THROUGH OR NOT. THERE'S DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW AND PROPOSALS ON THE TABLE, BUT AGAIN, IN 2021, THAT'S WHAT THE CODE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CODE WITH EV RIGHT NOW. UH, SOLAR, THERE IS APPENDIX OF TWO OF THEM, ONE IN COMMERCIAL, ONE IN RESIDENTIAL. AND SO NOT TODAY, BUT IN A FOLLOWING MEETING THERE WE'RE GONNA BE PRESENTED INFORMATION ABOUT, UM, WANTING TO ADOPT THAT APPENDIX, OR ARE WE GONNA, IS THE PLAN TO NOT REVIEW THAT APPENDIX TODAY TO DECIDE IF WE WANNA ADOPT IT? I, I WILL SHOW YOU WHAT WE CAME UP WITH IN 2019. UM, TECHNICALLY AGAIN, IT'S REALLY, WE TOOK THE SOLAR READY, UH, APPENDIX AND WE LOOKED AT IT, WE CAME UP WITH SOME MODIFICATIONS, UH, TO MODIFY IT, I GUESS. AND I'LL JUST PRESENT THAT TODAY. IF, UH, MR. HANLEY WANT TO WRAP UP TODAY, HE, HE NEEDS TO APPROVE, DENY, OR MODIFY . SO LET ME, LET ME JUST SHOW YOU WHAT, WHAT WE HAD AND THEN WE'LL GO FROM THERE. THANKS. I, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE THE MEETING MEETING, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD WHAT, WHAT THE, WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY. ABSOLUTELY. ALRIGHT. SAY RESIDENTIAL. NO, IT'S FINE. YOU WANT RESIDENTIAL? OKAY, . ALRIGHT, LET ME FIND IT FIRST. I NEED MY GLASSES. OKAY. UM, SO BASICALLY, AS I SAID, THIS IS WHAT WE CAME UP WITH. UM, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY PAPER? CAN'T EVEN FIND IT. OH, HERE WE GO. OKAY. SO THIS, THIS IS BASICALLY THE DRAFT WE CAME UP WITH. I HAVE THE DATE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. UH, JANUARY 10TH, 2019. AGAIN, REMEMBER IT'S A DRAFT. THAT'S WHAT WE CAME UP WITH. SO THE FIRST FEW SECTIONS, R A 1 0 1, THE SCOPE OF WORK, UH, OR THE SCOPE OF THIS CHAPTER, RA 1 0 2, GENERAL DEFINITION, RA 1 0 3, THE SOLAR READY ZONE. UH, THAT'S ALL IN THE APPENDIX, UM, IN 2018. AND THAT, THAT WE DID NOT CHANGE. UM, SECTION RA 1 0 3 0.3, SOLAR READY ZONE AREA. THAT SECTION IS IN THE APPENDIX IN 2018. AND AGAIN, REMEMBER, I'M JUST PRESENTING WHAT WE DID IN 2018, AND THEN I CAN GO BACK TO 2021 [02:00:01] AND TELL YOU THE DIFFERENCE. BUT, AND JUST TO, TO CLARIFY, THIS WAS A DISCUSSION DRAFT FROM 2019, NOT A APPROVED, CORRECT? RIGHT? CORRECT. JUST MAKE SURE WE'RE YEAH, I WAS, I WAS TOO. I THOUGHT WE WERE VERY CLOSE. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S APPROVED, BUT AS YOU GO THROUGH AND IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS YOU WANT TO ASK 'EM AS WE GO THROUGH, OR ABSOLUTELY. YEAH, YOU CAN ASK, CAN WE GO BACK UP? WHAT EFFECT IS THIS 90 TO 300 DEGREES TRUE NORTH GONNA HAVE AT PLATTING? BECAUSE IF THE LOTS AREN'T ORIENTED RIGHT, TO GET THE HOUSE IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO BEGIN WITH, YOU MAY HAVE AN ISSUE. SO ARE WE GONNA REQUIRE EVERY PLATING THAT GOES FORWARD TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO HAVE THIS ORIENTATION OF THE HOUSE SOMEWHERE IN THAT SAME DEAL? YEAH. UM, SO BASICALLY TH THIS IS, THIS IS A SECTION WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT THE, THE ROOF GONNA HAVE THAT, UH, KIND OF DIRECTION TO TRUE NORTH AND TO HAVE THAT AVAILABILITY ON, ON THE ROOF. UH, AGAIN, AS I SAID, THERE IS SOME EXCEPTIONS THAT WE, WE CAME UP WITH IN 2019 COMPARED TO THE CODE ITSELF. UM, THOSE ARE ACTUALLY NEXT SECTION. SO MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE TOLD YOU, LET ME GO THROUGH EVERYTHING I HAVE. THEN WE GO BACK 'CAUSE I MIGHT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, UH, SOON. THANK YOU. SO AGAIN, UH, R 1 0 3 0.3, SOLAR READY ZONE AREA. UH, AGAIN, THAT SECTION IS IN THE CODE. UM, WE DID SOME CHANGES TO IT. SO FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE CHANGES IS IN THE CODE, IT TALKS ABOUT THE TOTAL SOLAR READY ZONE AREA SHALL NOT BE LESS THAN 300 SQUARE FOOT. WHEN WE MET, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IT AND WE SAID SOMETIMES THAT'S TOO BIG, THEY CAN'T GET THAT MUCH, UH, AREA ON THE ROOF. SO WE DROPPED IT TO 240. AGAIN, WE RECOMMENDED DROPPING IT BECAUSE THIS WAS NOT APPROVED. UM, THE OTHER SECTION IN, IN THE SAME SECTION, BASICALLY WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, THE SOLAR ZONE AREA. UM, I'M SORRY. HOLD, HOLD ON. OKAY. UH, THE, THE SOLAR ZONE AREA SHALL NOT BE LESS THAN 150 SQUARE FEET, LIKE EACH SECTION. I MEAN, WE ARE SAYING THE WHOLE SECTION CANNOT BE LESS THAN TWO 40, BUT THEN EACH SECTION CANNOT BE LESS THAN ONE 50. UH, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE CHANGED IT TO ONE 60, BUT I GUESS, UH, THAT WAS THE DIFFERENCE. AND THEN WE SAID, UH, THE, UM, THAT THE, THE WIDTH AROUND IT SHOULD BE NOT LESS THAN SIX FEET. UH, THAT'S AGAIN, TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO FIREFIGHTERS IF THEY NEED TO GET ON THE ROOF. SO AGAIN, OVERALL IT'S, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT'S IN THE, UH, APPENDIX. WE JUST MODIFIED FEW NUMBERS. WHAT WE DID IS, THERE IS NO EXCEPTIONS IN THE CODE, UH, OR IN THE BOOK RIGHT NOW. UH, THERE WAS TWO, TWO EXCEPTIONS IN THE PREVIOUS SECTION. WE TOOK THOSE TWO SECTIONS. UH, WE TOOK ONE AS IS, WE KEPT IT. UM, AND THAT ONE IS BASICALLY, LET ME GO HERE. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT EXCEPTION NUMBER ONE. EXCEPTION NUMBER ONE. THAT'S A NEW EXCEPTION THAT WE PROVIDED OR PROPOSED TO ADD. WE SAID ANY BUILDING WITH LESS THAN 800 SQUARE FOOT OF ROOF AREA PER DWELLING UNIT IS EXEMPT. SO AGAIN, SMALLER SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNITS, YOU, YOU'RE NOT GONNA REQUIRE THEM TO ADD THAT. THE REASON WHY WE ADDED THIS IS THERE'S A LOT OF HOUSES THAT BEING BUILT, SMALL HOUSES, TINY HOUSES. THAT'S A NEW TREND THAT IS HAPPENING. UH, WE HAVE ONLY FEW IN SAN ANTONIO BUT THAT'S A TREND GOING THROUGH NATIONWIDE. SO OBVIOUSLY IF YOU HAVE VERY SMALL HOUSE, THE ROOF IS TOO SMALL. I MEAN, YOU CANNOT MANAGE THAT. YOU STILL NEED SOME AREAS ON THE ROOF FOR YOUR, UH, VENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO WE CANNOT CREATE AN AREA WHERE IT'S GONNA BE FREE OF PIPES TO PUT SOLAR. AND THAT'S WHY WE, WE, WE CAME UP WITH THAT. THAT WAS QUESTION FOR YOU ON THAT ONE. YES. IS THAT 800 SQUARE FOOT AS MEASURED IN A HORIZONTAL PLANE, OR IS THAT ACTUAL THE SLOPE OF THE ROOF? SO IF YOU HAVE LIKE AN A-FRAME HOUSE THAT'S A BAZILLION SQUARE FOOT OF ROOF OVER A 300 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE. IT'S, IT'S THE ROOF AREA. SO, OKAY. SO IT'S ACTUAL, IT'S ACTUAL ROOF AREA. AND THAT NUMBER, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW WHY WE CAME UP WITH THE 800, WE, WE DID SOME RESEARCH AT THAT TIME AND WE LOOKED AT, UH, DIFFERENT CITIES AND DIFFERENT STATES, I GUESS, IF YOU WILL. AND THEY, THEY PUT THAT NUMBER THERE. AGAIN, I KNOW TINY, TINY HOMES ARE BASICALLY CONSIDERED 300 SQUARE FOOT OR 400 SQUARE FOOT. SO OBVIOUSLY THE ROOF WILL BE SMALLER. BUT, UH, WE JUST TOOK WHAT OTHER CITIES, UM, USED AS BEST PRACTICES. THAT'S WHERE THE 800 CAME FROM. SO THE SECOND EXCEPTION HERE, THAT ONE WAS IN THE CODE. UM, AND ALL, WHAT WE DID IS WE ADDED AT LEAST TWO KILOWATT PER [02:05:01] DWELLING. SO AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE A, A NEW RESIDENTIAL, UM, HOUSE, YOU ARE BUILDING AND YOU DO INSTALL PERMANENT, UH, RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEMS IN IT, UM, BASED ON THE CODE, THERE IS SECTIONS IN THE CODE WHERE IT GIVES YOU THAT INFORMATION. UH, IF YOU DO THAT, UH, YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM SOLAR. AND AGAIN, ALL WHAT WE DID IS WE ADDED AT LEAST TWO KILOWATT PER DWELLING UNIT. DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THAT WOULD BE? UH, BESIDES A WINDMILL? NO. YOU'VE, YOU'VE GOT A, A, A, IT'S MOUNTED ON THE GROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD RATHER THAN ON YOUR ROOF. OKAY. OR CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THERE IS A PROGRAM WHERE YOU CAN BUY INTO A SOLAR ENERGY WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT THE SOLAR PANELS ON YOUR RESIDENCE. SO THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE, UH, EXCEPTION IT'S CURRENT. IT WOULD NOT. YES. 'CAUSE IT SAYS ON SITE SAYS ON, YEAH, IT'S GOTTA BE ON SITE BECAUSE THE NEXT, THE NEXT BUYER OF THAT HOME MAY NOT CHOOSE TO PURCHASE ENERGY FROM THAT SOLAR, SOLAR FARM TO, OKAY, HOLD ON. BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, LET'S LET HIM OKAY. NO, NO, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD QUESTION. UH, YEAH, WE CAN HANDLE IT. I, I CAN HANDLE THAT. I'LL FIGURE IT OUT. MY POINT WAS THE INTENT WASN'T TO CHANGE ANYTHING YET. IT WAS JUST TO SEE WHERE, WHERE WE ARE NOW, AND THEN THEN WE CAN GET INTO THAT. ARE, ARE YOU, WELL, I'M GONNA, SORRY, I'M GONNA PUT ANOTHER EXCEPTION. ARE YOU GONNA ALLOW AN EXCEPTION FOR H O A RULES OR ARE WE GONNA OVERRIDE H O A RULES? OOH, GOOD QUESTION. H OA, H H O A RULES. UH, WE, THE CITY DOES NOT ADOPT THOSE OR ENFORCE THOSE RULES. THAT'S JUST THEIR OWN RULES. WELL, THE REASON I ASK IS I'VE BEEN IN A PREVIOUS H O A THAT SPECIFICALLY FORBADE, AND WE ENDED UP WITH A STATE LAW THAT WAS PASSED THAT OVERWROTE EVERY ONE OF THE H O A RULES THAT PRE PROHIBITED SOLAR. SO THAT'S IN THE CITY. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY HOAS THAT PROHIBIT SOLAR ON THE ROOF. AND WILL THIS, WILL THIS PIECE FORCE THE HOAS TO REMOVE THAT LANGUAGE FROM THEIR DOCUMENTS AS A WITH HOAS? THEY CAN'T, THEY CAN'T ENFORCE, UH, DENYING YOU TO YOUR ABILITY TO PUT UP A, A SOLAR SYSTEM. THAT'S SOMETHING STATE LAW, CORRECT. STATE HAS THAT, YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. YEAH. SO I, I, I DO 'EM EVERY DAY, BUT I, WHETHER I LIKE 'EM OR NOT, OR HOW, HOW UGLY THEY ARE OR NICE OR WHATEVER THEY ARE, I CAN'T DENY IT. BUT I MEAN, JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THERE IS A LOT OF OLDER, I GUESS, HOAS WHERE THEY HAD IN THEIR COVENANTS AND RULES. UM, THEY DID PUT SOME RESTRICTIONS ON NOT ALLOWING SOLAR, BUT, UH, AGAIN, THEY CANNOT ENFORCE THAT DUE TO THE STATE REQUIRE RULING. ALRIGHT, KEEP GOING. SO THE THIRD EXCEPTION, BASICALLY THAT WAS IN THE CODE, UM, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT A BUILDING WITH A SOLAR, UM, READY ZONE THAT IS SHADED FOR MORE THAN, I'M READING THE CODE NOW, MORE THAN 70% OF DAYLIGHT HOURS ANNUALLY. WHAT WE, OUR RECOMMENDATION WAS TO CHANGE IT TO 50%. SO IF YOU HAVE 50% SHADED ROOF, YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM HAVING, UH, TO INSTALL SOLAR OR AGAIN, NOT EVEN INSTALL SOLAR TO HAVE SOLAR READY. AND WE, WE WILL GET TO THAT PART IN A SECOND. THEN WE ADDED AN EXCEPTION NUMBER FOUR, UH, BASICALLY WHERE TALKS ABOUT THE BUILDING SITE ON WHICH THE APPLICANT HAS DEMONSTRATED THROUGH DOCUMENTATION EXISTENCE OF UNIQUE HARDSHIP, PREVENTING COMPLIANCE. IT'S KIND OF, UH, WE ADDED THAT, IT'S A LITTLE BIT VAGUE IN MY OPINION, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT WHERE THEY SAID, WHAT IF WE CANNOT GET THAT ANGLE OF THE ROOF TO MAKE SURE WE GET WITHIN THAT DEGREES OF 110 TO 300 DEGREES ON, UH, TRUE NORTH. IF YOU CANNOT DO THAT, THAT WILL BE ONE OF THE HARDSHIPS IN COMPLYING. UM, IF FOR WHATEVER REASON, UM, AGAIN, MAYBE THE HA THE ROOF IS INSTEAD OF 800 SQUARE FEET, IT'S 810, THEN THEY, THEY CAN'T USE EXCEPTION ONE. BUT BASED ON ALL THE UNITS THEY HAVE, THE PLUMBING, ALL THAT, YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF PIPES COMING THROUGH THE ROOF, THERE IS NO WAY TO HAVE AN AREA THAT EQUATES 270 UH, SQUARE FEET, THEN TECHNICALLY YOU'LL BE EXEMPT UNDER THIS SECTION. SO THERE'S SOME, UH, UNIQUE HARDSHIP THAT YOU CAN PROVIDE AND WILL BE REVIEWED BY THE CITY AND, AND DETERMINED AT THAT TIME. SO I GUESS TO, TO GET TO THE MAIN, MAIN THING HERE IS, UM, SECTION 1 0 3 0.6. IT'S THE LAST SECTION ON, ON THE, UH, ON THIS DOCUMENT [02:10:01] THAT'S, UH, KEEP GOING NEXT. YEAH. YEAH. SO BASICALLY WHAT, WHAT, WHAT THE ASK HERE IS NOT INSTALLING SOLAR SYSTEMS, NOT RUNNING WIRE OR CONDUIT TO THE ROOF, REALLY NOT CHANGING MUCH. ALL, ALL WHAT WE ARE ASKING FOR HERE IS TO HAVE THE CAPACITY ON THE PANEL AND THE SPACING ON THE PANEL TO ALLOW YOU TO PUT, UH, A DUAL POLE CIRCUIT BREAKER. SO ONE OF THE THINGS NOW IS, AGAIN, REMEMBER THIS IS FOR NEW STRUCTURES. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT EXISTING STRUCTURES. SO IF A NEW HOUSE IS BEING BUILT, NOW, NORMALLY YOU GET A 200 AMP PANEL, WE CAN'T SAY A HUNDRED PERCENT, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SPACE ON IT, BUT MOST OF THE TIME YOU WILL HAVE SPACE ON THAT PANEL. SO TECHNICALLY IT SHOULDN'T MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. AT THIS POINT, AGAIN, WITH, WITH TECHNOLOGY, WITH CERTAIN THINGS CHANGING, AND I KNOW I HAVE C P S HERE, JOHN IS HERE, HE CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT. AS I SAID, WE CANNOT GUARANTEE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SPACE ON, ON THAT SYSTEM. IF YOU HAVE A BIG HOUSE AND YOU USE THE 200 AMP, YOU HAVE BUNCH OF BREAKERS, YOU MIGHT RUN OUTTA SPACE. SO THAT COULD HAPPEN. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT OVERALL, BUT YOU'RE STILL, YOU'RE STILL GOING WITH THE 200 AMP PANEL. CORRECT. BUT, UH, I'VE DONE IT. I'LL, I'LL, I'LL LET, I'LL LET C P S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, UH, TO EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT. BUT AGAIN, AS I SAID, EVEN SMALLER HOUSES, THEY ARE GETTING THE 200 AMP PANEL THAT MEAN THE FEEDER AND EVERYTHING IS RATED TO 200 AMP AND YOU HAVE THE SPACE TO ADD THAT THAT BREAKER IF YOU NEED IT, JOHN. SO THERE'S SOME, WE DON'T DO THE FULL LOAD ANALYSIS, SO THERE'S SOME SIDE CHATTER ABOUT THE, THE LOAD REQUIREMENTS. SO, NO, I WAS JUST GONNA POINT OUT JOHN, BE IS C P SS ENERGY. UM, SO RIGHT, THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT METHODOLOGIES OF INSTALLATION, RIGHT LINE SIDE OR LOAD SIDE. AND TYPICALLY I WOULD SAY IT'S 40 AMP BREAKERS THAT THEY'RE INSTALLING ON THE, ON THE PV SYSTEMS. UM, GENERALLY WHERE WE SEE UPGRADES REQUIRED, UH, IT'S, IT'S WITH THE 1 25 AMP PANELS THAT ARE GOING TO 200 AMP PANELS. UM, SO WE DON'T SEE A WHOLE LOT OF GOING FROM 200 TO A THREE 20 AMP PANEL, UH, IN THOSE INSTANCES. BUT WE REVIEW EVERY ONE, YOU KNOW, EVERY JOB THAT COMES THROUGH THAT THEY WANNA MAKE THAT INTERCONNECTION ON THE, ON THE LINE SIDE, I'M SORRY, THE LOAD SIDE OF THE, OF THE PANEL. UM, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL LOOK AT THOSE AND, AND LOOK AT THE, THE RATINGS. SO A 40 AMP FOR, FOR THE PV READY, RIGHT? IT WOULD BE A 50 AMP FOR AN EV READY. SO NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 90 AMPS ADDED TO, THAT'S I THINK WHERE WE RUN INTO PROBLEMS. SO WHAT IS CP S'S? LIKE IF WE'RE ADDING ALL THIS CAPACITY, WHAT, YOU KNOW, REQUIRED CAPACITY IN THE HOMES, WHAT IS CP S'S ABILITY TO, TO, SO FROM FROM THAT STANDPOINT, WE WOULD'VE TO DEFER BACK TO THE CITY, RIGHT? 'CAUSE WE DON'T GOVERN THE PANEL SIZES AND RIGHT. ALL WE'RE DOING IS FROM THE, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF WHEN WE DO A REVIEW, AND I, I'M ASSUMING CITY DOES THEIR ALSO REVIEWS ON THEIR SIDE AS WELL. UM, WE'RE JUST ENSURING THAT THE BREAKER SIZES AND THE PANEL SIZES ALL MEET THE REQUIREMENTS WHEN YOU'RE ADDING ANOTHER POWER SOURCE BACK INTO THAT PANEL, RIGHT? I, I, I'M, AGAIN, THIS MAY BE A C P S SPECIFIC THING, BUT IN WHERE I'VE ACTUALLY INSTALLED MY OWN, I PUT IT ON THE AIR CONDITIONER, I WON'T SAY THE DISCONNECT, BUT PUT AN 80 AMP PANEL TO REPLACE, AND I HAD A 50 AMP BREAKER FOR MY, FOR MY HEAT PUMP AND JUST DROPPED IN A 30 AMP BREAKER IN THERE. THERE WAS NO, IT WAS JUST, I THINK 80 AMPS WAS THE SMALLEST FOUR CIRCUIT PANEL I COULD GET. AND SO THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE OF THIS. INSTEAD OF BEING IN THE MAIN, I COMPLIED WITH THE N A C, WENT THROUGH POLE PERMITS, DID THE FULL INSTALLATION. SO I, I WOULD SAY AGAIN, IT MAY BE A WEIRD C P S REQUIREMENT, BUT IT, IT SHOULDN'T REQUIRE AN UPSIZE BREAKER OR IT SHOULDN'T REQUIRE AN UPSIZE BUS. IT SHOULDN'T REQUIRE, IT'S TO A LOAD ANALYSIS NOW. WELL, E WELL, AND, AND AGAIN, EV'S GONNA EV WILL ADD MORE CAPACITY ON YOUR SERVICE, BUT PV DOESN'T, BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT ALONE BECAUSE THESE ARE IN COMBINATION TOGETHER. SO ANALYSIS COMBO, OKAY, COULD, SO CAN WE START AT THE BEGINNING? SO LET'S SAY WE DO ALL OF THIS STUFF. FORGET ABOUT, WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE EV WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE THE SOLAR. EVERYTHING'S THERE ON THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOTS. DO THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE. IF A SUBDIVISION WAS BUILT UNDER THE OLD RULES WITH THE OLD LOAD CAPACITIES, AND THE, AND THE POWER IS ALREADY IN THE GROUND, DOES C P SS WIRING THAT GOES, THAT WAS PUT INTO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM OF THE SUBDIVISION, CAN THEY SUPPORT ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, 50 AMPS PER [02:15:01] HOUSE IF THAT WHOLE SUBDIVISION WAS EV? SO, SO THAT ALL GETS LOOKED AT, AT THE, AT THE, IT'S A DIFFERENT AREA THAN WHAT WE LOOK AT. THAT'S, THAT'S, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY ON HOW THEY WOULD EVALUATE AS THESE LOADS AND THESE EV SYSTEMS ARE INSTALLED AT EACH LOCATION. I MEAN, NECESSARILY IT DOESN'T, I LOOK AT IT FROM A LET NO, IT JUST DEPENDS ON, YOU CHANGE YOUR SCHEDULE TIME AS CHARGING, IT'S AS EASY AS THAT. AND YOU CAN GET AROUND IT. THERE, THERE'S, THERE, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S NOT HOW THEY DESIGN SYSTEMS. THEY DESIGN SYSTEMS TO HANDLE WHAT I CALL EVERYTHING IS ON AT SOME PERCENTAGE DURING PEAK LOAD PERIODS. AND SO CAN WE GET FOR THE NEXT MEETING SOMEONE FROM C P SS TO EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THE INCREASE IN COST OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM WILL BE WITH TAKE A, TAKE SOME PLAN THAT YOU HAVE AND SAY, HERE'S THE CURRENT PRICING, THESE ARE THE NEW WIRE SIZES AND TRANSFORMER SIZES THAT HAVE TO BE IN TO SAY, OKAY, WHAT IS THE END COST? OKAY, SO I WOULD ASK THE RELEVANT FOR THE LOT. NO, GO AHEAD. FOR THE LOT DEVELOPMENT. THEN THE SECOND QUESTION IS, IS ONCE WE HAVE THAT, HOW MUCH DOES THIS REQUIREMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO AND FROM ASSUMING YOU'RE GOING FROM A 115 AMP PANEL TO A 200 AMP PANEL, TO ME, THAT PRICE DIFFERENCE PROBABLY IS NOT HUGE. YOU KNOW, MAYBE A HUNDRED BUCKS A PANEL MORE. SAY AGAIN. BUT, BUT I, I JUST OURSELVES, IT, IT'S, YEAH, BUT, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS TO GO THROUGH THIS ON STEP BY STEP TO SAY, OKAY, HERE IS THE COST. OKAY. BECAUSE MY CONCERN IS, IS THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE AN EXISTING SUBDIVISION THAT, THAT IS UNDER THIS NEW RULE REQUIRED TO PUT ALL THIS IN, AND THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM THAT'S WITHIN THAT SUBDIVISION IS NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO CARRY THE LOAD. AND THEN SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK AND PAY TO DIG UP EVERYBODY'S YARD TO PUT IN BIGGER WIRES, BIGGER TRANSFORMERS, BIGGER EVERYTHING. BECAUSE MOST OF THE NEW SUBDIVISIONS RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT EASY LIKE OVERHEAD. IT'S ALL UNDERGROUND. AND SO TO HAVE SOMEONE WITH THAT TECHNICAL EXPERTISE TO BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN IF WE DO THIS, WHAT THE REAL COST OF DOING ALL THIS STUFF IS. SO YOU HAD STARTED TO ANSWER, I I THINK YOU CAN WELL, NO, I, I WAS JUST SAYING ON THE, AND AGAIN, I THINK KIND OF SOME OF THE OTHER CHARTS BEAR OUT, RIGHT? THAT IF IT'S, IF IT'S KNOWN AHEAD OF TIME, RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S MUCH, MUCH MORE COST EFFECTIVE. UM, YOU KNOW, THE DUCK BANKS'S PROBABLY STILL GONNA BE THE SAME, RIGHT? YOU JUST MAY HAVE A, A LARGER SIZE TRANSFORMER, MAYBE AN ADDITIONAL TRANSFORMER HERE OR THERE. UM, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT, I WOULD SAY TO, TO UNDERPIN, I GUESS WHAT A, WHAT A DESIGN CHANGE WOULD BE WITHOUT REAL, YOU KNOW, EXAMPLES OF, OKAY, IT'S GONNA INCREASE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, PRIMARILY THE HOUSES THAT ARE GOING IN. AND, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT IN THAT AREA, BUT I WOULD ASSUME THE MAJORITY OF SUBDIVISIONS ALL COME IN WITH A 200 AMP PANEL, RIGHT? SO I MEAN, FROM OUR STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT HOW MUCH IT WOULD REALLY IMPACT THAT PART OF THE DESIGN, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY ANTICIPATING A CERTAIN LEVEL OF LOAD AT A 200 AMP PANEL. UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOME WIRE SIZE DIFFERENCES, MAYBE FROM THE TRANSFORMER TO THE, TO THE END USER, RIGHT? TO THE METER, TO THE POINT OF DELIVERY. UM, I, I DON'T KNOW. I I, WE DOESN'T A SOLAR, I, AGAIN, I'M A LIBERAL ARTS GUY, DOESN'T SOLAR PRODUCE ENERGY? WELL, CORRECT. AND, AND SO WE WE'RE KIND OF BLENDING, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF BLENDING THE TWO CONVERSATIONS HERE. WELL, YEAH, YEAH. WE'RE KIND OF COMBINING THE CONVERSATION. SO EV EV EVIE'S ONE THING, BUT I MEAN THE, THE SOLAR, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SPACE IN THE PANEL BECAUSE THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM OF THE HOUSE HAS TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THE, ALL THE ELECTRICITY. BUT IT SHOULDN'T DRAW MORE ON C P S IN THEORY SHOULD BE PRODUCING, BUT ELECTRIC CARS WILL. WELL, YEAH, I KNOW, BUT WE'RE, THIS IS THE, THIS IS THE, THE SOLAR. UM, SO LEMME YEAH, YOU'VE BEEN, YOU'VE BEEN PATIENT, PLEASE. I HAVE A LOT OF OTHER OPINIONS, BUT I JUST WANNA FOCUS RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ON, ON SOLAR. WE FIRST GOTTA TALK ABOUT AN INVERTER. IT'S NOT SO MUCH AN INVERTER SIZE IS I HAVE A 10 KILOWATT INVERTER, A LARGE INVERTER. MOST OF THESE INVERTERS ARE GONNA BE A FIVE KILOWATT THAT THEY'RE INSTALLING IN SAN ANTONIO. MY 10 KILOWATT REQUIRED A 60 AMP BREAKER. MY BUS [02:20:01] BAR RATING WOULD NOT ACCEPT THAT. AND I HAD TO DO A PUT A GUTTER BOX AND A SIDE CUT IN ABOVE THAT, WHICH ADDED A LOT OF COST TO ME. SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT DO WE WANT TO PLAN FOR MOST EVERYBODY MINIMUM CODE A FIVE KILOWATT INVERTER, AND WHICH IS GONNA REQUIRE A 40 AMP BREAKER. I JUST WANT TO GET THAT ON PEOPLE'S MINDS ON WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING ON THIS. I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU. OKAY. AMIN, DO YOU WANNA CONTINUE? SO YEAH, JUST TO CLARIFY WHAT JOHN SAID, UH, JOHN PEREZ FOR, WITH C P S, UM, LATELY, AT LEAST IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, UM, WE, I DON'T WANNA SAY WE DON'T AT ALL, BUT RARELY WE SEE ANY HOUSE WITH LESS THAN 200 AMP PANEL ON IT. SO THE DESIGN IS BASED ON 200 AMP AND, UH, AGAIN, NORMAL HOUSES, THEY DON'T USE THAT MUCH. SO WE SHOULD HAVE SPACE AGAIN, IT'S NOT GUARANTEED, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SEEING. I MEAN, DO THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN EXTRA WIRE IF THEY'RE, I ASSUME C P S ALLOWS THE EXCESS ENERGY TO GO BACK INTO THE, THE GRID. TO THE GRID, YEAH. WOULD YOU HAVE IT'S ALL UNDERGROUND UTILITIES. SO, SO DO THEY HAVE TO PUT THE EXTRA WIRE? IS THERE ANOTHER WIRE REQUIRED? NO, IT, IT, IT, NO, THE SHORT ANSWER IS NO. WE HAVE THE PROGRAM, UM, YOU KNOW, IT BASICALLY CURRENTLY AS IT AS IT EXISTS AS A NET METER. SO, YOU KNOW, WE'LL GO OUT AND DO A COMMISSIONING ON THE SYSTEM, ENSURE SO HIGH LEVEL, RIGHT? YOU SUBMIT THE PLANS, UM, WHETHER YOU'RE DOING REBATE OR NON-REM REBATE, YOU SUBMIT THE PLANS SO THAT WE CAN REGISTER YOUR SYSTEM TO KNOW WHERE IT IS, UM, BECAUSE OF THE, THE ABILITY TO PUSH BACK ONTO THE GRID AND THE SAFETY CONCERNS. UM, AND SO WE'LL GO OUT, SUBMIT THE DRAWINGS, WE LOOK AT IT, REVIEW IT, UM, MAKE SURE IT COMPLIES, COMPLIES. UM, AFTER YOU GET YOUR PERMITS FROM THE CITY GETS INSTALLED, WE'LL GO BACK OUT AND COMMISSION IT AND WE'LL HAVE TO CHANGE OUT YOUR METER TO BE A BI-DIRECTIONAL METER. BUT NO, THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL WIRES INSTALLED, UH, FROM THE POINT OF DELIVERY BACK TO THE TRANSFORMERS. SO THE ONLY ADDITIONAL COST IS MAKING FOR, FOR WHAT THIS IS REQUIRING IS TO HAVE 40 AMPS OF EXTRA CAPACITY IN THE INTERIOR PANEL. NOT EVEN NECESSARILY THAT. IT'S LITERALLY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SPACE FOR A BREAKER. THAT'S, THAT'S BASICALLY IT. NOW, WHERE THIS MAY CATCH PEOPLE IS LIKE, YOU'VE GOT, LIKE, I'LL USE MY OLD HOUSE. I HAD, IT'S A SIX SWITCH RULE ON THE OUTSIDE, IS THE WAY THEY BUILT MY HOUSE. ONE WAS THE OVEN, ONE WAS THE DRYER AIR CONDITIONER, AIR CONDITIONER SUB-PANEL, AND THERE WAS ONE MORE. SO I ALREADY HAD, HAD SIX SWITCHES IN THERE. SO IN THAT CASE, YOU'D HAVE TO PUT A MAIN BREAKER IN CORRECT. AND DO SOME STUFF LIKE THAT. THAT'S WHY I WAS ADVOCATING IF WE DO THIS, INSTEAD OF SAYING MAIN ELECTRICAL SERVICE PANEL IS JUST ANY PANEL, BECAUSE THEN THE BUILDERS CAN STILL USE THE SIX SWITCH RULE ON THE OUTSIDE, ON THE MAIN AND DROP OVER ON THE AIR CONDITIONING. WHAT WAS A DISCONNECT, WHICH IS NOW A FOUR CIRCUIT BREAKER PANEL, EXTERIOR RATED BREAKER PANEL, AND, AND LITERALLY IT'S NOT EVEN UPGRADING ANYTHING THERE. WELL, I, I WILL TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT IN AS IT AS IT'S WRITTEN IN OUR STANDARDS, RIGHT? WE TRY TO GROUP BOTH THE, THE PV METER AND THE REVENUE METER ALL IN THE SAME LOCATION, RIGHT? SO ANYWHERE WHERE YOU'RE IN TYING BACK INTO WITH SOLAR, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THAT, THAT PV METER, THAT'S, THAT'S, I'M GONNA BE BLUNT, THAT'S A SILLY C P S REQUIREMENT THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN A LOT OF OTHER PLACES. I I UNDERSTAND THAT, RIGHT? , BUT, BUT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S STILL REQUIREMENT AT, AT THIS POINT, RIGHT? CHANGE THAT. SO, UH, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT AND GO THROUGH VARIOUS PROCESSES. YEAH, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S LITERALLY YOU GO FROM A $12 DISCONNECT TO A $50 FOUR CIRCUIT EXTERIOR RATED PANEL DONE. YEAH. BUT MANY OF THE ONES WE'RE SEEING NOW ARE, ARE MORE COMPLEX THAN, THAN THAT. RIGHT? AND, AND WHAT I'LL, WHAT I'LL GET TO IS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PUTTING BATTERIES, THEY'RE PUTTING GENERATORS, THEY'RE PUTTING SOLAR, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING THEM INSTALL A TRANSFER SWITCH AHEAD OF ALL THAT SO THAT THEY CAN BE UTILIZED DURING A WINTER STORM. WE'RE NOT GOING FOR A MINIMUM SITUATION. WE'RE LOOKING AT A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT, NOT COMPLEX. WE'RE LOOKING AT A SIMPLE MINIMUM, RIGHT? AND, AND CURRENTLY, AS IT EXISTS TODAY, ALL DG GOES THROUGH A PV METER, RIGHT? FOR, FOR MONITORING PURPOSES AND INFORMATION GATHERING, MAKING SURE IT'S THERE. I MEAN, WE GET NUMEROUS CALLS SAYING, HEY, MY SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK. AND WE'LL LOOK AND SAY, WELL, NO, WE'RE STILL SEEING IT WORK UP THROUGH THE PV METER IF SOMETHING ELSE IS GOING ON FROM YOUR SIDE. SO GO BACK TO UNDER THE CURRENT RULES, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE ROOM TO ADD A 40 AMP EXTRA CAPACITY AND BREAKER TO WHATEVER YOU'RE PUTTING ON THE MAIN DISCONNECT OUTSIDE [02:25:02] WHERE THE METER IS. AND, AND LEMME BE CLEAR, 40 AMPS IS, IS THE TYPICAL THAT WE SEE, RIGHT? IT COULD BE, IT COULD BE ANY VARIATION OF WHATEVER, HOWEVER BIG A SYSTEM THE CUSTOMER WANTS TO INSTALL, UM, THEN DRIVES THE, YOU KNOW, AS, AS AS YOU MENTIONED. BUT DO THEY HAVE TO, WHAT I'M ASKING IS, DO THEY HAVE, DOES THE, IF, IF YOU ARE HAVE A 200 AMP PANEL ON THAT DISCONNECT ON THE OUTSIDE AND ALL OF IT, ALL 200 AMPS IS UTILIZED BY EITHER INTERIOR BREAKERS, AIR CONDITIONING, STOVE, WHATEVER, AT THAT POINT YOU NEED 40 AMPS EXTRA CAPACITY AND A BREAKER SPACE AT, AT THAT POINT. IT WOULD, IT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE UPGRADED, RIGHT? I MEAN, IF YOU'RE USING ALL, ALL YOUR CAPACITY OF THAT PANEL, RIGHT? SO THE CODE, WHEN WE GET TO THE LANGUAGE, IT NEEDS TO BE, IF WE'RE GONNA ADOPT THIS, IT NEEDS TO BE 40 AMPS AND AN EXTRA SPACE. AGAIN, I, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU GUYS WISH TO, TO PHRASE THAT, RIGHT? 40 AMPS, IF YOU'RE SAYING IS THE MINIMUM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE HAVE PROVISIONS TO BE LINE SIDE AND THAT'S AN INTERCONNECTION AHEAD OF THE PANEL. UM, BUT THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A, ALLOWING IT, UM, TO EASILY BE INSTALLED AFTER THE FACT. OKAY. I THINK AMIN STILL HAS SOME PIECES OF THIS PRESENTATION, SO I, I WANNA, UM, I WANNA GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO FINISH. AND THEN WE, THAT WAS, THAT WAS IT FOR RESIDENTIAL. SO NOW WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, UH, COMMERCIAL BASICALLY. SO CHAIR, SHOULD I PROCEED? YEAH, PLEASE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, ON THE COMMERCIAL SIDE, BASICALLY, AGAIN, THIS IS FOR SOLAR ONLY. UH, THE SAME THING. UM, MOST OF THESE SECTIONS, THEY'RE ALREADY IN THE APPENDIX. UM, AND WE TOOK THEM AS IS, UH, WE GO DOWN TO CA 1 0 3, SOLAR READY ZONE. UM, THEY HAD IN THE CODE FOUR EXCEPTIONS ALREADY. UH, WE MAINTAINED FOUR, WE KIND OF DELETED ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS THAT THEY HAVE AND WE ADDED ANOTHER ONE INSTEAD. UH, BUT OVERALL, WE, WE USED WHAT THEY HAVE. SO THE FIRST EXCEPTION, BASICALLY, AGAIN, SIMILAR TO RESIDENTIAL, IF YOU HAVE ONSITE RENEWABLE ENERGY SYSTEMS BASED ON SECTION 4 0 6 0.5, IF YOU COMPLY WITH THAT, THEN THAT'S AN EXCEPTION. THE SECOND ONE, IF YOUR STRUCTURE OR YOUR ROOF IS SHADED, UH, AGAIN, THE CODE, UH, STATES 70%, MORE THAN 70%, WE CHANGED IT TO MORE THAN 50%. UH, AGAIN, TO MATCH THE RESIDENTIAL. THE THIRD EXCEPTION, BASICALLY A BUILDING WHERE A LICENSED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL CERTIFIES THAT THE SOLAR ZONE AREA REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION CANNOT BE MET BECAUSE OF EXTENSIVE ROOFTOP EQUIPMENT, SKYLIGHTS, VEGETATION, ROOF, AND ANY OTHER OBSTRUCTIONS. AGAIN, THE SAME CONCEPT HERE. A LOT OF COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, THEY'RE USING SKYLIGHTS, AND WHEN YOU HAVE SKYLIGHTS, YOU LOSE THAT, THAT AREA. UH, SO AGAIN, IF FOR SOME REASON YOU CANNOT, UH, HAVE THAT AREA OR THE SPACE AVAILABLE FOR, FOR SOLAR, THEN TECHNICALLY YOU'RE EXEMPT. UH, THE LAST ONE, A BUILDING, WHICH IS LESS THAN THREE, 3000 SQUARE FEET OF ROOF AREA. SO AGAIN, SMALLER BUILDINGS, SMALLER COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, UH, THEY WILL BE EXEMPT AS WELL. UH, THEN MOVING ON TO, UH, 1 0 3 0.3 SOLAR AREA. READY? UM, SORRY, SOLAR READY ZONE AREA. UH, WE CREATED TWO SUBSECTIONS UNDER THAT. ONE IS FOR MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS AND ONE FOR NON MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS, WHICH IS AGAIN, ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. SO, UM, THE FIRST ONE, UH, IN REGARDS TO MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS, UH, WE ARE TALKING, AGAIN, REMEMBER, THIS IS NEW BUILDINGS, NEW MULTIFAMILY BUILDINGS MUST HAVE A SOLAR READY ZONE THAT IS NOT LESS THAN 25% OF THE TOTAL ROOF AREA OF THE BUILDING. AND THAT, THAT HAPPENS IF, AGAIN, THEY DID NOT MEET ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. SO IF THEY MET THE EXCEPTION, TECHNICALLY NONE OF THESE SECTIONS APPLY ANYMORE. UM, AGAIN, WE USED, UH, VERY SIMILAR EXCEPTIONS, UM, IN REGARDS TO THE SHADED ROOF. IF IT'S MORE THAN 50%, THEN THEY'RE EXEMPT. AND AS I SAID EARLIER, WITH THE OTHER ONE, THE UNIQUE HARDSHIP. SO AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE BUNCH OF SKYLIGHTS, THINGS LIKE THAT IN YOUR STRUCTURE, THEN YOU, YOU MIGHT BE EXEMPT. THE OTHER SECTION, THE 1 0 3 0.3 0.2, THE NON MULTIFAMILY COMMERCIAL BUILDING, THAT SECTION WAS IN THE CODE. UH, WE KIND OF LEFT IT ALONE. THE ONLY THING WE ADDED IS TOWARDS THE END WHERE, UH, TALKS ABOUT THE NOT LESS THAN FIVE FOOT IN WIDTH, UH, AT THE NARROWEST DIMENSION THAT WAS [02:30:01] IN THE CODE. WE JUST ADDED A NOT LESS THAN 80 SQUARE FOOT IN TOTAL. SO AGAIN, YOU WANT MINIMUM 80 SQUARE FEET MINIMUM AREAS, UH, WITHOUT ANY PIPES OR ANYTHING THERE OBSTRUCTING, UH, INSTALLING THE SOLAR. SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF MINOR CHANGES WE DID TO THE APPENDIX, UH, FROM 2018 CODE. SO COMMENTARY ON THE COMMERCIAL VERSION. YEAH, I MEAN, WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THE GROUP DEAL ON THE MULTI-FAMILY STUFF. SO YOU HAVE A TWO OR THREE STORY BUILDING, NO OWNER IS GOING TO COME BACK IN AND RETROFIT A INDIVIDUAL TENANT ELECTRIC METER. THIS IS, THIS IS FOR NEW STRUCTURES? NO, NO, BUT IF IT'S NOT INSTALLED AT THE TIME IT'S BUILT, NO OWNER IS GONNA GO BACK IN AND PUT SOLAR ON THE ROOF TO POWER AN INDIVIDUAL RESIDENCE UNIT BECAUSE THERE'S THE UN IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. UNDERSTOOD. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS NEW MARK. NO, NO, I, I, I UNDERSTAND. SO I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT'S, BUT IT'S EXPLAIN WHY IT'S SOLAR READY. WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT IT'S NOT GONNA BE, GONNA BE, WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING MORE THAN HAVE TO BE READY. IT'S READY FOR NOTHING IS I THINK THE POINT. HE'S READY. HE'S FULLY READY. THEY'RE NO OWNER WOULD EVER GO BACK AND ACTUALLY PUT IT ON. NO OWNER IS GONNA GO BACK AND PUT IT ON, ON AN INDIVIDUAL TENANT BASIS UNLESS THEY'RE DOING IT. AND THEY WOULD DO IT REGARDLESS FOR, YOU KNOW, TO GET SOME GREEN ADVERTISING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THEY'RE JUST NOT GONNA DO IT. THE AMOUNT OF POWER THAT IS USED BY THE EXTERIOR LIGHTING, WHICH IS THE ONLY THING THAT'S ON A BUILDING THAT THE OWNER ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, PAYS FOR. YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YEAH, BUT AS AN OWNER, YOU CAN SELL THAT ENERGY TO YOUR TENANTS. I I I I AM PROHIBITED FROM SELLING ENERGY TO MY TENANTS, PERIOD BY STATE LAW. OKAY, WELL YOU'RE SELLING IT TO HIM OR TO HIM, AND THEN HE'S SELLING IT BACK. I, I CAN'T, THERE IS A PROHIBITED, THERE IS A STATE LAW UNDER THE ENERGY CODE OF THE STATE THAT PROHIBITS OWNERS FROM BEING INVOLVED WHATSOEVER IN THE SALE OF ENERGY PERIOD. OKAY. SO THAT WAS DONE. AND BECAUSE WE'RE A MUNICIPAL UTILITY, IT'S EVEN WORSE. AND SO YOU'RE NEVER GONNA HAVE THIS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THIS SPACE. YOU'RE GONNA MOVE ALL YOUR PIPES AROUND TO GET THE AREA AND NOBODY'S EVER GONNA USE IT. SO WHY, WHY HAVE IT? OKAY, GOOD, GOOD POINT. I'M NOT RESIDENTIAL. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I HAVE ONE ON RESIDENTIAL, BUT IF WE'RE JUST DOING COMMERCIAL RIGHT NOW, WELL, I MEAN, BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES, IF IT'S SOLAR RELATED, LET'S, I'D LIKE TO HEAR IT. MINE IS PROBABLY ELECTRICAL VEHICLE RELATED ALSO. OH, REALLY? DO YOU WANNA WAIT THEN AND SEE? YEAH, GO AHEAD AND DO YOUR EV FIRST AND THEN I'LL MAKE MY COMMENTS. AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION IS, IS WHEN YOU HAVE THAT SPACE AVAILABLE, HOW ARE YOU GONNA PICK WHICH OF THE PEOPLE WITHIN THE BUILDING ARE GONNA HAVE ACCESS TO THAT POWER? SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE SAME KIND OF EXEMPTION PUT IN TO THIS WHERE IT'S NOT REQUIRED IF THE INDIVIDUAL IN R TWO, IF THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS ARE, YOU KNOW, METER WELL, COULD WE, COULD WE GIVE YOU A MUCH BETTER EXCEPTION JUST TO SAY THAT THE SOLAR READY AREA WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE ANY LARGER THAN THAT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE FOR THE OWNER LOADS. BASICALLY YOUR EXTERIOR LIGHTING. SO IF YOU HAVE 2000 WATTS OF EXTERIOR LIGHTING, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE A SOLAR READY ZONE THAT WAS ANY MORE THAN 2000 WATTS. I, I MEAN, OUR, OUR HOUSE METER BILLS ARE 25 BUCKS A MONTH. I MEAN, NOW THAT WE'VE GONE TO, YOU KNOW, SO ARE YOU GONNA SPEND, WHAT'S THE PAYBACK PERIOD TO GET 25 OR $30 A MONTH BUILT? MA'AM, YOU WANNA YEAH, AGAIN, LENA, WE BUILT SAN ANTONIO GREEN. WE ARE THE LOCAL GREEN BUILDING PROGRAM. WE'VE BEEN CERTIFYING PROJECTS SINCE 2000. WE'VE BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE 2001, CERTIFYING PROJECTS SINCE 2007. WE DO EVERYTHING NOW FROM SINGLE FAMILY, MULTIFAMILY, MIXED USE, CO UH, COMMERCIAL CONSTRUCTION, NEW AND EXISTING RESIDENTIAL. I'M, I'M SORRY, NEW AND EXISTING PROJECTS. ACTUALLY WE'VE NOW, IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, WE'VE HAD A COUPLE OF PROJECTS, MULTIFAMILY PROJECTS THAT THEY HAVE ADDED [02:35:01] SOLAR FOR THEIR COMMON SPACES. UH, WE ACTUALLY JUST CERTIFIED THE FIRST LEVEL THREE, WHICH WAS A PROJECT THAT PROVIDED SOLAR ENERGY TO, UM, OFFSET 75% ENERGY USAGE OF THEIR COMMON SPACES. IT'S NOT JUST THE EXTERIOR LIGHTING, IT'S EVERYTHING ELSE. IT'S DARK, UH, CLUBHOUSES, LAUNDRY, MALE AREAS. THERE'S SOME BUILDINGS THAT ACTUALLY HAVE, LIKE THE SENIOR APARTMENTS HAVE A LOT OF ENCLOSED BUILDINGS. SO YOU HAVE ALL THESE COS ON EVERY FLOOR. SO THAT'S WHAT THIS PROBATION WILL BE PROBABLY FOR. IT'S JUST MAYBE A MATTER OF UPDATING THE LANGUAGE TO SAY THAT THIS WILL APPLY TO COMMON SPACES BECAUSE OF YOU COULDN'T SELL THE ENERGY TO YOUR TENANTS. SO, SO, SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THE ONES THAT Y'ALL HAVE APPROVED, ARE THOSE RETROFITS? I'M SORRY, THEY'RE RETROFITS? NO, THESE WERE NEW CONSTRUCTION. OKAY. CAN YOU JUST PROVIDE TO THE STAFF WHERE THEY ARE SO WE CAN, AT LEAST AS WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, MAYBE CONTACT THEM? WHERE, WHERE DID THEY PUT THE SOLAR ON THE PARKING? NO, NO, ON THE ROOFTOP. ON THE ROOFTOP, YEAH. OKAY. AND THE GOOD THING IS THAT MULTIFAMILY, IT'S TYPICALLY MANY BUILDINGS, UNLESS IT'S, UH, SENIOR APARTMENTS, THOSE TEND TO BE JUST ONE BUILDING. UM, A FEW STORIES TALL, BUT ON THE ONES WE'VE SEEN, IT'S ACTUALLY REALLY AWESOME BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT ORIENTATIONS. SO THEY, UH, IDENTIFY THE ONES THAT ARE REALLY GOOD FOR SOLAR, WHICH THIS IS ONE OF THE PROVISIONS. IT'S JUST HAVING THE DOCUMENTATION. SO IN THE FUTURE, IF THE BUILDING OWNER WANTED TO DO THAT, YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT INFORMATION AND IT WILL PROVIDE THE CAPACITY, THE SPACE ORIENTATION, ALL OF THAT'S IDENTIFIED FOR THE OWNER IF THEY WANTED TO OFFSET SOME OTHER, UH, ENERGY USAGE IN THEIR COMMON SPACES. AND WE ACTUALLY HAD A DEVELOPER, THE ONE THAT DID THE LEVEL THREE PROJECT, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR MORE SOLAR INSTALLERS FOR THEIR PORTFOLIO OF, UH, EXISTING. AND WHO WAS THE DEVELOPER THAT DID YOUR LEVEL THREE? UM, I'M NOT SURE IF I CAN SAY THAT, BUT I CAN PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION. YEAH, I MEAN, IF YOU'RE GONNA PROVIDE THE INFORMATION. OKAY, SO THE PROJECT SCORE, ALSBURY PARK. WHO? ALSBURY PARK. IT'S THE PROJECT DEVELOP AND THE BUILD, I BELIEVE IT'S BURA DEVELOPMENT. WHO? BURSA. OKAY. V E R SS A. YEAH, I KNOW THEM. SO, UH, JUST THANK YOU. A PIECE OF INFORMATION THERE. SO, SO, AND THIS IS JOHN PET AGAIN, JUST TO ADD TO THAT, RIGHT. WE, WE DO HAVE SOME APARTMENT COMPLEXES THAT DO THAT TO CLARIFY. WE, WE DON'T, YOU DON'T PIPE 'EM BACK THROUGH EACH INDIVIDUAL TENANT. IT'S, IT'S TO THE COMMON, YOU KNOW, HOUSE METER AT EACH LOCATION. UM, AND, AND AS SHE MENTIONED, THERE'S A FEW OF THOSE. UM, BUT ADDITIONALLY, RIGHT? JUST TO MAKE SURE WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY MAY NOT BE WHAT'S THERE TOMORROW. THE PROGRAMS WE HAVE NOW THAT ARE NET METERING, IT MAY CHANGE TO SOMETHING WHERE THERE'S MAYBE A BUY ALL SELL ALL WHERE FOR APARTMENT COMPLEXES, RIGHT? SOMETHING WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY ENTER IN AGREEMENTS THAT WE, WE HAVE A METER WHERE IT'S SPECIFIC TO GIVE A CREDIT BACK TO, TO THE, TO THE BUILDING OWNER. I'M, I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE IN, IN THE PIPES OR ANYTHING IN THE WORKS, BUT WE'RE ALWAYS OPEN TO DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR CUSTOMERS, RIGHT? YEAH. SOMETHING LIKE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA TO SOLVE HIS PROBLEM, RIGHT? WHERE IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE METERING ON THE, ON THE HIGH SIDE OF THE TRANSFORMER, THEN HE COULD RECOUP AND HAVE SOME R O I. THAT'S WHAT I'M STUCK RIGHT NOW. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I I, I DON'T WANT TO, AND AGAIN, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M NOT IN THOSE MEETINGS, I DON'T HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, RIGHT? BUT, YOU KNOW, WE ALWAYS LOOK AT DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES TO EXPAND, UM, SOLAR FOR, FOR OUR COMMUNITY AT LARGE, RIGHT? THEN THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE AS A BOARD SHOULD LOOK. 'CAUSE I THINK HE'S GOT A VERY VALID POINT THAT WE AS A BOARD SHOULD RECOMMEND TO THE CITY, THAT THE CITY SHOULD APPROACH C P S TO, TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING TO SOLVE HIS PROBLEM. BUT, BUT IT'S A ON, FOR EXAMPLE, ON A GARDEN STYLE APARTMENT, YOU HAVE LOTS OF OTHER ALTERNATIVES BESIDES THE ROOF AREA TO PUT THESE THINGS ON. SO IF YOU'RE DOING CARPORTS, I'VE SEEN THEM LIKE IN OFFICE BUILDINGS. AND SO I, I JUST THINK THE MARKET IS GOING TO HANDLE THE SOLAR AND WHEN IT BECOMES ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE TO DO IT, PEOPLE ARE GONNA DO IT RIGHT AND LEFT. AND THERE IS, I JUST WANNA GIVE YOU THE ECONOMIC . NO, NO, NO, I, I UNDERSTAND. BUT, BUT THAT GETS MORE COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT REGULATED BY C P S THAT WOULD BE REGULATED BY STATE RULE AS TO WHAT MONEY CAN BE. WE, WE WENT THROUGH A BIG THING WHEN, WHEN WE WENT TO ENERGY DEREGULATION THAT THE OWNERS WERE GONNA BUY POWER AND SELL IT TO THE TENANT. AND THAT GOT PROHIBITED BY STATE LAW. SO I JUST, YOU KNOW, WE CAN WORK THROUGH IT, BUT I JUST THINK HAVING TO HAVE ROOF AREA, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL, THEY'LL FIGURE IT OUT WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE AND IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE SOLAR ARRAY, THERE'S PLENTY OF SPACE ON THE [02:40:01] ROOF TO PUT IT, YOU KNOW? BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE MADE A BIG PITCH TO KEEP EVERYBODY WHERE POSSIBLE OFF THE ROOFS, BECAUSE IF IT'S A FLAT ROOF, WE DON'T WANT 'EM WALKING UP THERE. AND BECAUSE IT CAUSES ROOF LEAKS, YOU KNOW, SO WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WORKED ON THE FLAT ROOF BUILDINGS TO MOVE ALL THE, YOU KNOW, EITHER TO GO TO A SPLIT SYSTEM WHERE IT HANGS ON THE WALL OR IT'S ON THE GROUND AND THERE'S NOTHING ON THE ROOF, SO NOBODY IS GOING ON THE ROOF, YOU KNOW? SO I THINK THERE'S BIGGER OPERATIONAL ISSUES THAT, FOR MULTIFAMILY, WHEN IT'S APPROPRIATE, IT WILL HAPPEN. AND IT'S NOT LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME WHERE THERE'S SOME BIG TIME INCENTIVE TO DO IT. ALL RIGHT. AMIN, DO YOU WANNA GET INTO THE, TO THE PV OR THE EV GOT MY VISA CONFUSED WITH THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE. SO YEAH, JUST TO, TO ANSWER THAT. SO ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS WAS IF YOU HAVE RENEWABLE ENERGY ON SITE, THEN YOU DON'T NEED TO PUT IT ON THE ROOF. THAT'S AN EXCEPTION. SO IF YOU DO PUT IT OVER A CARPORT, YOU ALREADY MET THE EXCEPTION AND YOU ARE GOOD TO GO. UM, CORRECT. UH, BUT AGAIN, LIKE THERE IS OPTIONS. AND AGAIN, THIS, THIS IS A GOOD DISCUSSION. AS I SAID, I'M JUST PRESENTING WHAT WE CAME UP WITH AT THAT TIME. AND ALL THESE ARE GOOD. I MEAN, NUMBER ONE IS, I GET YOUR POINT AS FAR AS TENANTS, I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT GONNA INSTALL SOLAR SYSTEM FOR THE WHOLE BUILDING AND IF YOU CANNOT CHARGE THE TENANTS FOR, FOR THAT POWER, RIGHT? SO PROBABLY, LIKE LENA TALKED ABOUT IS MORE, IT'S THE COMMON AREAS, FOR EXAMPLE. SO AGAIN, THOSE ARE ALL GOOD DISCUSSIONS. WE CAN AGAIN, DIG INTO IT NEXT MEETING UNLESS YOU WANNA DO IT TODAY. THAT WOULD BE A SUGGESTION I'D MAKE IS THAT THEY SHOULD LOOK AT THE MINIMUM OR THE MAXIMUM SHOULD BE NO MORE THAN WHAT THE HOUSE PANELS CAN UTILIZE. AND THAT WAY WE'RE NOT MAKING OUR, OUR APARTMENT COMPLEXES PUT IN 25% OF THE ROOF BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. CAN I GET A, UH, CLARIFICATION ON THE, UH, SOLAR READY ZONE? THE, THE, UH, HERE'S MY QUESTION. THE, UH, 2021 ENERGY CODE LOOKS TO ME THAT IT SAYS IF YOU HAVE A ROOF THAT'S ORIENTED THIS WAY, THEN YOU PROVIDE A SPACE FOR SOLAR PANELS. UM, THIS, UH, THE COMMERCIAL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT FROM TWO 18 ALSO LOOKS DIFF DIFFERENT, UH, DEGREE MEASUREMENTS, BUT SAYS IF YOU HAVE IT, THE RESIDENTIAL CODE SAYS YOU MUST HAVE, IT SHALL HAVE, AM I MISSING SOMETHING? SO THAT THE WAY I READ THE TWO 18 UH, PROPOSAL HERE AS A BUILDER, I'D BE REQUIRED TO ORIENT MY ROOF IN THAT FASHION. AND THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE 2021 ENERGY CODE SAYS. I JUST WANTED TO GET A CLARIFICATION ON THE INTENT ON THAT. SO LET ME SEE. SHALL WE? YES, YOU, YOU ARE CORRECT. NOW THE, THE APPENDIX, UH, DOESN'T SAY SHALL, IT JUST SAYS BASICALLY IF, IF YOU HAVE THAT ORIENTATION, WHAT WE PROPOSED, WE ADDED THE WORD SHALL TO IT. AGAIN, THAT'S, THAT COULD BE UP FOR DISCUSSION. SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING, UH, CARRYING FORWARD INTO THE 2021 THAT YOU WOULD PROBABLY START FROM THAT POINT OF SHALL VERSUS IF YOU HAVE IT, EITHER START THERE OR, OR GET RID OF. IT DEPENDS, BUT YES, IT'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. GOOD, GOOD POINT. JUST ANOTHER QUESTION ON THAT IS, DOES THE COMMERCIAL HAVE THE SAME, I'M GONNA SAY CILIARY REQUIREMENTS AS RESIDENTIAL DOES WHERE THEY GOTTA HAVE THE EXTRA METER? OR ARE THEY ALLOWED TO TAP INTO ANY PANEL? 'CAUSE AGAIN, I'M THINKING LIKE THE A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT WALMARTS, YOU, YOU GOTTA, YOU COULD SET A A, A BIG ASS ROOFTOP SITTING THERE THAT'S GOT A 50 AMP, FOUR 80 VOLT BREAKER SITTING RIGHT THERE. AND AGAIN, TO MAKE IT CHEAP AND EASY FOR SOMEBODY TO GET INTO, IF THEY CAN TIE RIGHT INTO THAT BREAKER, IT GOES BACK AGAIN. IT'S BUTTON YOU'VE GOTTA ENGINEER, WHICH WHERE YOU, YOU'RE IT ALL. YEAH, BUT I MEAN, IT, IT, IT ALLOWS THAT, MY POINT IS AGAIN, I THINK WE JUST NEED TO ADVOCATE WITH C P S TO MAKE, IF THEY, IF WE WANT SOLAR IN THIS CITY, WE SHOULD BE ADVOCATING TO C P SS TO MAKE OUR LIFE EASIER BECAUSE IT'S BEEN DONE WAY BETTER IN OTHER, OTHER AREAS THAT ARE LESS COSTLY THAN WHAT C P S IS DOING, I THINK. YEAH, TOTALLY AGREED. YEAH. NOT JUST A 50 AMP BREAKER IF WE'RE DOING FROM COMMERCIALS SIZE. RIGHT. BUT IT, BUT IT GIVES, IF YOU HAVE A 50, BUT IT GIVES, IT GIVES A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR PEOPLE IN A LOWER COST INSTALL. I JUST THINK WE NEED TO TALK TO C P S TO MAKE IT EASIER TO INSTALL. [02:45:01] ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO ELECTRICAL VEHICLE BRIEFING. TO, JUST TO GET A CLARIFICATION ON THE PROCESS. IF WE SAID IN THE ELECTRICAL OR ENERGY CODE THAT IT WAS OKAY TO DO THIS AND C P AND COUNCIL PASSED IT, WOULD IT REQUIRE C P S TO CHANGE THEIR RULES AND THEIR BOARD TO ADOPT NEW RULES TO FACILITATE THAT? OR BY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO PASSING THAT INTO THE CODE? IS IT BASICALLY A MANDATE ON THEM TO DO IT? THAT IS, THAT IS REALLY GOOD QUESTION. I I'M NOT SURE I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT, JOHN. SO THE, THE, THE QUESTION IS IF THE BOARD RECOMMENDS FOR CHANGES, I GUESS THEN IT GOES THROUGH COUNCIL, THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE WHAT HAPPENS. DO YOU NEED TO GO BACK AND, I MEAN, BEFORE YOU GET AN ANSWER TO THAT, I, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT WOULD BE, UM, A BAD DECISION BY THIS BOARD TO PASS, UH, A CODE ORDINANCE THAT WE KNOW TO BE INFEASIBLE BASED ON THE CURRENT RULES OF THE ELECTRICAL UTILITY, RIGHT? I MEAN, I PASSING RULES IN CODE INTO CODE BECAUSE WE WANT TO FORCE A CHANGE IN THE MUNICIPAL OWNED ELECTRICAL UTILITY, I THINK WOULD BE A VERY BAD USE OF OUR AUTHORITY. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH. WELL, I DON'T, I DISAGREE. I MEAN THIS, IF IT'S OWNED BY THE CITY, IT SHOULD BE HERE TO SERVE THE, THE CITY AT THE BEST AVAILABLE COST AND, AND USE. THEY, I MEAN THAT'S MY POINT ON IT. EVERYBODY'S HERE YELLING ABOUT MAKING THINGS CHEAPER TO INSTALL. MY THOUGHT WOULD BE A SUBCOMMITTEE FAIR ENOUGH ON THAT. AND WE COULD DO THAT BETWEEN HERE AND IT GOING TO THE FULL BOARD. WE, WE, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. LET US DO SOME RESEARCH AND CHECK ON THAT. IT'S PROBABLY MORE LEGAL WE'LL GET WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM AND THEIR LEGAL TEAM AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS IF WE GET TO THAT POINT. YEAH, BECAUSE WE WOULD PASS, WE WOULD PASS A CODE PROVISION THAT WOULD GO INTO EFFECT ON A CERTAIN DATE WHETHER OR NOT C P S FIXED ITSELF OR NOT. AND WE CAN ALL WANT THE SYSTEM TO BE WHAT WE WANT IT TO BE, BUT THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE REALITY OF THE WORLD WE LIVE IN. ALRIGHT, LET'S GO TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES PLEASE. ALRIGHT, LET'S, OH, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. I THOUGHT SOLAR IS EASY. STARTS WITH RESIDENTIAL. ALRIGHT, SO THIS IS THE BASICALLY THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, EV SYSTEM, UH, ALREADY EV EV READY, UH, AGAIN, UM, THE 2018 CODE AND THE 2021 CODE DOES NOT HAVE, UM, ANYTHING ABOUT EV SYSTEMS, UM, IN IT. SO THIS IS KIND OF WHAT WE CAME UP WITH, UM, AS A RECOMMENDATION AND AS A DRAFT IN 2019, OBVIOUSLY WE DEFINED, UH, THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE, WHAT THAT MEANS. THEN WE DEFINED THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE SUPPLY EQUIPMENT, WHICH MEANS BASICALLY IN A NUTSHELL, EVERYTHING, IT'S THE CONDUIT, THE WIRING, THE FITTINGS, THE CHARGER, YOU KNOW, FOR THE VEHICLE. THAT'S KIND OF THE WHOLE SYSTEM IF YOU WILL. UM, THEN WE DEFINED ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGING SPACE. UH, WE CALL IT EV READY SPACE. WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU ARE JUST HAVING A DEDICATED, UH, 50 AMP BRANCH CIRCUIT TO POTENTIALLY INSTALL THE EV SE SYSTEM AT SOME POINT, WHICH IS THE CHARGING SYSTEM. UM, AND THEN WE KIND OF WENT DOWN AND OUR RECOMMENDATION AT THAT TIME WAS TO ADD SECTION TWO, UM, R 4 0 4 0.2 TO ADD THAT INTO THE CODE. UM, AND WE CREATED A SMALL TABLE WHERE IT SHOWS HOW MANY, I GUESS 50 AMPS, UH, BRANCH CIRCUITS DO YOU NEED PER, I GUESS GUESS STRUCTURE, IF YOU WILL. SO SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNIT, THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO HAVE ONE. AGAIN, WE ARE LOOKING AT NEWER HOUSES, OBVIOUSLY. UH, NORMALLY THEY COME, NOT ALL OF THEM. AGAIN, I CAN'T SAY A HUNDRED PERCENT, SOME OF THEM ARE ON I Z D, UM, LOTS WHERE THEY'RE, THEY'RE SMALL, THEY'RE BUILDING UP TO PROPERTY LINE AND ALL THAT, AND THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE TWO PARKING, YOU KNOW, GARAGE, UH, SPACE, BUT MOST OF THEM THEY DO. SO WE SAID IN EVERY SINGLE DWELLING UNIT, WE NEED ONLY ONE. YOU DON'T NEED BOTH, OBVIOUSLY. UH, TWO FAMILY DWELLING UNIT, WE SAID TWO, UNLESS BOTH OF THOSE UNITS ARE ON THE SAME METER, THEN IT GOES DOWN TO ONE. UM, AND THEN ON MULTIFAMILY WITH PARKING SPACES, WE SAID, UH, AT LEAST 10% OF THE SPACES ARE NOT LESS THAN TWO. SO AGAIN, DEPENDS ON THE SIZE OF THAT MULTIFAMILY, BUT MINIMUM TWO UP TO 10% [02:50:01] OF, UH, THOSE SPACES NEED TO BE EV READY AGAIN. SO YOU'RE NOT INSTALLING THE CHARGER, YOU'RE NOT INSTALLING THE CONDUIT OR THE WIRING. YOU JUST HAVE THE CAPACITY ON YOUR PANEL AVAILABLE IF YOU CHOOSE TO AT SOME POINT. AND, UH, THERE WAS SOME EXCEPTIONS, UH, THAT, THAT WE ADDED. UM, BASICALLY, UM, IN NO CASE SHALL THE NUMBER OF REQUIRED EV READY SPACES BE GREATER THAN THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, WHICH I MEAN THAT'S OBVIOUS. UM, THE REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE CONSIDERED MET IF ALL SPACES WHICH ARE NOT EV READY ARE SEPARATED FROM THE PREMISES BY A PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. SO WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS, THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT YOU MIGHT BUILD, ESPECIALLY ON MULTIFAMILY. YOU MIGHT BUILD IT HERE, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE SPACE FOR PARKING. AND YOU DO THE PARKING ACROSS THE STREET, PUBLIC RIGHTWAY, AND YOU PUT THE PARKING HERE. WE SAID IF IT'S NOT REALLY IN THE SAME AREA, IF IT'S ACROSS THE STREET, THEN THAT'S AN EXEMPTION. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO EV THERE. ARE THEY REQUIRED TO HAVE PARKING LOT LIGHTING? YES, THEY ARE. THEN WE CAN PUT EV ACROSS THE STREET. THEY'RE ALREADY PULLING IN AN ELECTRICAL SERVICE. WE CAN, AGAIN, THIS WAS THE RECOMMENDATION AT THAT TIME. UM, AND AGAIN, ALL THAT IS FOR, YEAH, 3%, ALL, ALL THAT IS AGAIN FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. UM, THEN THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT ABOUT ADDITIONS. SO YOU HAVE, UH, AGAIN, I'M USING MULTIFAMILY JUST TO PICK ON MARK, BUT YOU HAVE A MULTIFAMILY, YOU HAVE 10 BUILDINGS AND YOU HAVE SPACE. YOU BUILD ANOTHER BUILDING. SO THAT ONE NEW BUILDING AS AN ADDITION, IF YOU BUILD THAT, DOES IT NEED TO COMPLY WITH THESE RULES OR NOT? SO WE ADDED THAT SECTION FOR ADDITIONS, UM, AND THEN ALTERATION AS WELL. UM, AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE ALTERATION, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ALTERATION TO LEVEL THREE, WHERE YOU HAVE TO GO ON, YOU'RE GUTTING THE WHOLE STRUCTURE, BASICALLY STARTING FRESH. BUT AGAIN, THIS IS ALL RECOMMENDATIONS AT THAT TIME. AND I KNOW THE FOCUS WAS MAINLY ON NEW CONSTRUCTION, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS WHAT WE HAD AT THAT POINT. AS I SAID, I JUST WANTED TO PRESENT EVERYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, IN 20 18, 20 19. WE ALL SLEPT SINCE THEN. UH, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER MORE AS I'M TALKING ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW. BUT, UM, AGAIN, THIS IS JUST A STARTING POINT FOR EV AND AND SOLAR. SIR, BEFORE I LET YOU, JACK'S BEEN WAITING PATIENTLY. HE'S BEEN TRYING TO GET A WORD IN FOR A WHILE. SO AFTER HIM THEN, THEN YOU'LL HAVE A CHANCE. THANKS. NO, YOU CAN DEFINITELY GET UP JUST A SECOND. I, I'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, I WAS THERE IN THE 2018 WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS. AND YOU KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU I'M NOT AGAINST SOLAR AT ALL. I'M NOT AGAINST EV I, I'VE SEEN IT, IT'S COMING. I KNOW THAT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE KNOWLEDGE THAT WE KNOW THAT IN 30 TO 50 YEARS WE'RE GONNA NEED IT IN 30 TO 50 YEARS. AND MY BIGGEST CONCERN WITH THIS WHOLE THING IS AS WE DISCUSS IT FURTHER, AND THERE'S MULTITUDES OF TOPICS AND WEEDS OF ALL THE PARAMETERS AND EVERYTHING, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THE NUMBER ONE FACT IS THE CHOICE IS WHAT REALLY IS GONNA MAKE PEOPLE BUY SOLAR. AND CHOICE IS WHAT'S GONNA MAKE PEOPLE BUY ELECTRIC CARS. AND RIGHT NOW, THE DEGREE OF THAT CHOICE IS EXTREMELY SMALL. UH, THERE'S PROBABLY LESS THAN 10% OF A GIVEN NEIGHBORHOOD THAT YOU'LL EVEN SEE SOLAR ON. AND THAT'S PURELY BY CHOICE BY US AS A CITY MANDATING THAT EVERY SINGLE HOME DO THOSE SMALL LITTLE INCREMENTAL COST OF A DESIGN COST, ESPECIALLY WITH THE WORDING OF SHALL THAT RA 1 0 3, THEY SHALL DESIGN IT. THEN THE STRUCTURAL DESIGN COST, WHICH WE GET A BILL FOR THAT. AND THEN THE STRUCTURAL ITEMS THAT WE'LL HAVE TO DO TO MAKE IT READY COST FOR THAT, THE ACTUAL ELECTRICAL COST FOR MAKE READY, WHICH WE ALREADY KNOW IS ANYWHERE FROM 12 TO $1,500 TO MAKE IT READY FOR ELECTRICAL. AND THAT IS FROM ELECTRICIANS. THAT'S A REAL NUMBER OF SAYING, THIS IS WHAT I'M GONNA CHARGE YOU TO HAVE SOME ELECTRICAL AND THE CONDUIT AND THE PANEL AND EVERYTHING READY FOR YOU. SO YOU ADD ALL THOSE COSTS THAT WE ARE GOING TO TELL EVERYBODY THEY HAVE TO HAVE IN THEIR HOUSE WHEN ONLY A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE CHOOSE TO PUT IT IN THEIR HOUSE AND SPEND THE 10 TO 15,000 WITH A 10 PLUS YEAR PAYBACK IT, ET CETERA. IT'S TO ME, A LITTLE BIT IRRESPONSIBLE TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PAY FOR SOMETHING THEY DON'T WANT BECAUSE JUST WE'RE GONNA, WE, WE THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE IT. THEY CAN STILL GET IT RIGHT NOW, I, I APPROVE 'EM ALL THE TIME IN THE SUBDIVISION. I HAVE VERY, VERY FEW DO IT. I APPROVE IT. SOON AS I SEE IT, BOOM, GOOD, YOU GOT IT. BUT THEY CHOOSE TO SPEND THE MONEY TO MAKE THEIR HOUSE READY TO SPEND THE MONEY, TO UPGRADE THEIR PANEL, TO SPEND THE MONEY, [02:55:01] TO PUT THE SYSTEM, THE DESIGN, ALL THAT IT TAKES TO DO THAT. AND I KNOW OUR RESPONSIBILITY HERE IS MANY, BUT I JUST, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO KNOW THAT WHEN A, WHEN A COUNCILMAN, WHICH I APPRECIATE, I DON'T REMEMBER HIS NAME. IF HE'S GONNA COME UP WITH SAY, Y'ALL NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT THIS. WELL, THAT'S FINE. OFFER, UH, THE BUILDING COMMUNITY AN INCENTIVE. SAY, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO, WE WANT YOU TO DO IT AND WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU $3,000 OFF YOUR PERMITTING FEES TO HELP YOU PUT THAT IN. IF THEY'RE, YEAH, WE MIGHT THINK ABOUT IT, BUT I I THINK JUST TO, TO DO IT FOR THE, FOR THE WHOLE, WHEN IT ONLY BENEFITS THE FEW THAT ARE ACTUALLY GONNA USE IT. EVEN UH, ELECTRIC CARS. I MEAN, I LIVE IN A COMMUNITY MID-RANGE HOME PRICES PROBABLY OUT OF 300 HOMES. WE GOT PROBABLY TWO ELECTRIC CARS RIGHT NOW. AND I KNOW IN 30 TO 50 YEARS THAT'S GONNA CHANGE. I GET IT. BUT FOR THE HERE AND NOW, I JUST WANT US TO AIR, UH, WHEN WE'RE STARTING TO MAKE DECISIONS OF, OF A MONETARY INCREMENTAL COST THAT WE'RE ALREADY, THAT, THAT ARE ALREADY HAPPENING. AND WE'RE GONNA FORCE THIS ON FOR THE FEW AND NOT FOR THE MAJORITY. THANKS JACK. SIR, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO SAY? I WANNA ADDRESS WHAT JACK SAID ABOUT THE FUTURE IN A MINUTE. BUT FIRST I WANTED DEFINE WHAT, WHAT WE DID BACK THEN AND ONE OF THE REVISIONS, THE PHYSICS OF DRIVING AND THE MILES DRIVEN ON WHAT'S OUT THERE. WE FIGURED IT OUT. PEOPLE ARE DRIVING, THE CARS ARE GONNA BE COMING OUT WITH ABOUT A 250 MILE RANGE. WHETHER WHAT KIND OF BATTERIES THEY USE, THAT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE. THE COST OF THESE VEHICLES HAVE PLUMMETED AND THEY'RE GONNA CONTINUE TO PLUMMET. SO WITH THE PHYSICS ARE THERE, WHAT YOU NEED FOR A 250 MILE RANGE OF A CAR IS NOT FOR A TESLA. THE 50 AMP BREAKER WHEN WE WERE ORIGINALLY TALKING WAS MORE THAN WE HAD TALKED ABOUT. AND WE HAD TALKED ABOUT REDUCING THAT JUST TO 40 AMP BREAKER FOR A 40 AMP BREAKER. WHAT YOU GET IS 32 CONTINUOUS, UH, AMPS. THOSE 32 CONTINUOUS AMPS ARE GOING TO GIVE YOU YOUR TYPICAL MILES OF CHARGING IN ABOUT, ON, ON A TWO POLE BREAKER IN ABOUT THREE HOURS OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING. WE, C P S ENERGY IS OFFERING THESE SMART METERS ALREADY. SO IT'S NOT PUTTING THAT STRAIN ON YOUR GRID BECAUSE THEY HAVE WIFI CONTROL OF WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR FULL 250 MILES RANGE, IT'S SEVEN O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING WHEN I WANT IT. THEY'VE CHOSEN WHEN TO DO THAT IN AND THEY'RE GIVING ME $5 A MONTH. THEY GAVE ME A $250 A MONTH IN INCENTIVE TO PUT THIS WIFI BREAKER ON. SO THIS 40 AMP BREAKER THAT WE'RE ACTING ASKING FOR, IT'S COMING HERE. AND NOW ANY HOME, THE MANUFACTURER THAT DOES NOT PUT IN THAT INTO CONVENIENT LOCATION IN A NEW SINGLE FAMILY CONSTRUCTION OR YOUR, UM, WHAT DID YOU CALL 'EM? THE, THE SMALL UH, UH, GARDEN STYLE. THE GARDEN STYLE HOMES. THOSE MUST HAVE THIS BREAK. A 40 BREAKER IN 'EM RIGHT NOW IN A, WITH WIRING FOR A CONVENIENT LOCATION. THIS IS CHEAP. DOING IT UPFRONT, DOING IT LATER ON IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF REDESIGN AND STUFF TO GET THAT IN LOAD DESIGN LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT LOAD DESIGN IS VERY IMPORTANT. YOU JUST CAN'T PUT IT IN THAT SPOT. YOU GOTTA MAKE SURE YOUR WHOLE THING CAN HANDLE IT, BUT UPFRONT YOU'RE HAVING TO DO LOAD DESIGN ON A BUILDING ANYWAY. SO ADDING THE LOAD DESIGN IS NOT AN ADDED COST. IT'S THE COST ALREADY THERE BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY DONE IT. WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS THAT YOU DO THAT LOAD DESIGN, PUT THAT 40 AMP BREAKER IN THERE BECAUSE THIS IS COMING HERE AND NOW FORD CHEVROLET, ALL OUR MANUFACTURERS ARE SAYING, THESE ARE THE CARS THAT WE'RE GONNA BE OFFERING ONCE THE DC FAST CHARGING NETWORK COMES OUT. AND THAT'S A TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE. AND THOSE, AND, UH, TXDOT IS GONNA BE DEPLOYING THOSE MAPS SOON WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY ONCE THOSE DC UH, FAST CHARGERS COME IN. SO YOU CAN TRAVEL CONVENIENTLY BETWEEN CITIES. THIS THING IS COMING FAST. IT IS NOT COMING IN 30 TO 50 YEARS. IT IS COMING VERY QUICKLY. THE LIFE OF THESE HOMES MUST HAVE A 40 AMP BREAKER, UH, FOR A CONVENIENT LOCATION IN THE GARAGE NOW. AND IT'D BE CRAZY NOT TO DO IT. I'LL STOP THERE. THANK YOU. GOOD. UH, YES. I GUESS MY QUESTION OR CONCERN IS, AND I HEARD WHAT JACK SAID IS THE DEFINITION OF WHAT EV READY IS. IN [03:00:01] OTHER WORDS, DO YOU HAVE TO PUT THE 40 AMP BREAKER IN? THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. I MEAN, IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN EV AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA BUY AN EV, SO WHAT ARE THE PROVISIONS AND WHO CERTIFIES WHAT MAKES IT EV READY? SO, UM, I CAN, AND SO WHAT'S THE DEFINITION THAT'S IN THIS, UH, IS WHAT WE KIND OF CAME UP WITH IN 2018. SINCE THEN, THE I E C C COMMITTEE HAS ACTUALLY PUBLISHED A NEW DEFINITION. SO WHAT WE CALL IT EV READY IS NOW CONSIDERED EV CAPABLE. AND THERE IS A DEFINITION, I DON'T IF YOU WANT ME TO READ IT OR I MEAN YOU WANT TO READ THAT. YEAH, I I DON'T HAVE IT ON ME, BUT YES. LARGE FONT HERE. I'M JUST TRYING TO GET TO WHAT INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIREMENTS, RIGHT. SO EV CAPABLE PARKING SPACES HAVE THE ELECTRICAL PANEL CAPACITY AND CONDUIT INSTALLED DURING CONSTRUCTION, ESSENTIALLY. SO THE CAPACITY IN THE PANEL AND A CONDUIT TO RUN WIRE TO THE PARKING SPACE EV READY HAVE THE FULL CIRCUIT INSTALLATION FOR A 2 0 8, 2 40 VOLT OR GREATER, UH, 40 AMP OR GREATER PANEL CAPACITY RACEWAY WIRING, RECEPTACLE AND CIRCUIT OVER PROTECTION DEVICES. AND THEN THE THIRD IS E V S E INSTALL, WHICH IS ELECTRIC VEHICLE SUPPLY EQUIPMENT THAT IS FULLY INSTALLED FROM THE ELECTRICAL PANEL TO THE PARKING SPACE. SO THE, THE THING THAT YOU ACTUALLY PLUG INTO THE CAR. SO THOSE ARE THE THREE CATEGORIES THAT THE CODE COMMITTEE HAS IN THEIR MODEL. LEGISL REGISTER REGULATIONS. BECAUSE IF, AND THE WHOLE QUESTION IS, AND I HAD THIS CONVERSATION EARLIER WITH BRIAN, IS THAT IF IT'S A MATTER OF RUNNING A CONDUIT, STEPPING IT UP NEAR A PANEL WHERE YOU CAN ADD THE PANEL AT A LATER DATE IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN EV VEHICLE, I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET THE DEFINITION 'CAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO PUT THAT COST ON A HOMEOWNER TO HAVE ALL OF THOSE, THAT INFRASTRUCTURE OR DEVICES IN THERE IF THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE DRIVING AN EV BUT A CONDUIT BECAUSE WE DO CONDUITS AND CONSTRUCTION ALL THE TIME FOR LOW VOLTAGE WIRES OR FUTURE THINGS CONDUIT'S CHEAP. BUT THE MINUTE YOU START PUTTING IN THE APPARATUS AND THE SUPPORT EQUIPMENT AND STUFF LIKE THIS, YOU'RE STARTING TO ADD SOME SIGNIFICANT COST TO THAT REQUIREMENT. AND THAT WAS THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND WHAT WE CAME UP WITH WHEN WE DEFINED EV READY AS WE DID, WHICH I THINK OUR OLD DEION DEFINITION OF EV READY THAT'S IN THIS DOCUMENT IS REALLY WHAT'S IS NOW CALLED EV CAPABLE. SO THE WORDING IS, YOU KNOW, IS GONNA BE CONFUSING 'CAUSE IT CHANGED. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE CAME UP WITH. UH, JUST, UH, CHAIR AGAIN, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, IT'S BEEN FOUR, FOUR YEARS NOW. UH, WE DID LOOK AT THREE DEFINITIONS AT THAT TIME. WE LOOKED AT CAPABLE READY AND FULL CHARGING, WHICH IS THE E V S E. AND HERE WHEN WE SAID READY, ACTUALLY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HAVING THE PLUG BASICALLY AVAILABLE. WHICH, WHICH THIS, THIS MATCHES THE I C C UH, DEFINITION RIGHT NOW. WIRE BREAKER. YEAH. THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I REMEMBER. OUR DISCUSSION BEING, I THINK MAYBE IT'S JUST 'CAUSE YOU DIDN'T, I DIDN'T GET WHAT I WANTED. MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I'M YOU YOU MISSED THE LAST MEETING, . SO MY ELECTRICAL OF NO. SO I THINK A REASONABLE COMPROMISE MIGHT BE, IF IT DOESN'T ADD A HUGE AMOUNT OF COST, THE BIGGEST COST THAT, AT LEAST FROM MY EXPERIENCE, IS DISTRIBUTION. SO TO CHANGE DISTRIBUTION. SO IF THE PANEL INSIDE THE HOUSE AND THE GARAGE CAN'T SUPPORT ANOTHER 40 OR 50 AMP BREAKER AT THAT POINT TO GO BACK AND CHANGE EVERYTHING IS MASSIVELY EXPENSIVE. IF THE OUTSIDE PANEL CAN'T SUPPORT, YOU KNOW THAT EITHER, BECAUSE THE, THE OUTSIDE DISTRIBUTION IS NOT BIG ENOUGH. THAT IS WHERE THE U THE BIGGEST COST COMES IN OF HAVING TO GO CHANGE IT. WHAT I THINK IS REASONABLE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT TOO EXPENSIVE THAT YOU COME IN AND DESIGN THE DISTRIBUTIONS. SO IN THE GARAGE YOU HAVE A 50 AMP OR 40 AMP EXTRA CAPACITY AVAILABLE, BUT DON'T PUT IT IN, BUT DON'T PUT IT IN WHERE IF THE HOMEOWNER WANTS TO GET IT, BASICALLY AT THAT POINT, ALL YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE CUTTING A HOLE BELOW OR ON THE SIDE OF THE PANEL PUTTING SOMETHING IN THE GARAGE. YOU CAN RUN AROUND AND YOU'RE DONE. AND, AND THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP IN THE COMMITTEE. YEAH. THAT WAS SHOT DOWN. YEAH. BUT I, I THINK, I, I THINK THAT IS WHAT'S REASONABLE IN A MULTI-FAMILY GARDEN APARTMENT. IF YOU, IF YOU'RE BUILDING IT, I AGREE. YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE POWER TO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM AND IF THE MARKET WANTS IT, YOU'RE GONNA PUT IT IN. BUT YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT IT IN BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, TRENCH, TRENCH, WELL, EVEN TRENCHING ACROSS A PARKING LOT TO PUT THE CONDUIT IN IS, IS, IS NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. IT DOESN'T COST THAT MUCH. IT, THE, THE MATERIAL I I I, I TEND TO DISAGREE ABOUT WHAT'S REASONABLE AT, AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THE, THE WORLD THAT EXISTED WHEN WE DRAFTED THIS DOES NOT RESEMBLE THE WORLD IN WHICH WE LIVE. UM, JACK, BRIAN, MAYBE ONE OF YOU GUYS CAN ANSWER THE [03:05:01] QUESTION. FOUR YEARS AGO, WHAT DID A SHEET OF FOUR BY EIGHT PLYWOOD COST? $7 BEFORE COVID. AND WHAT IS IT NOW? LAST MAY WAS 87. THIS, UH, NOVEMBER WENT DOWN TO 14. TWO MONTHS AGO IT WAS 55. IT'S $34 NOW. OKAY, SO, SO THE WORLD IN WHICH ADDING PENNIES TO THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION FOR SOMETHING THAT'S NOT EVEN IN APPENDIX OF THIS BOOK, UM, NOT EVEN IN AN APPENDIX OF THIS BOOK. UM, TO ME IT'S REASONABLE TO NOT DO ANYTHING. AND YOUR P'S CONDUITS COST BECAUSE, WE'LL, THIS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY BE SOMETHING WE CAN REVISIT IN TWO YEARS. IN YOUR HOUSES THAT ARE YOU, YOU ARE BUILDING RIGHT NOW, IS THERE 40 AMPS EXTRA IN THE INTERIOR PANEL? SOMETIMES THAT'S AVAILABLE IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE TO JUMP UP TO THE NEXT PANEL SIZE, HOW MUCH BRIAN? UH, FOUR TO SIX GRAND. AND, AND AGAIN, AND CAN WE EVEN GET, WHAT IF YOU JUST GET RIGHT AT THAT 200 AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HAVE AN EXTRA 40 AMPS THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO? YEAH. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, JOE, YOU HAD SOMETHING. MY CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN DO ALL THESE SUGGESTIONS, BUT CAN WE EVEN GET THE MATERIAL? CAN WE EVEN GET THE PRODUCT? IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR US NOW TO GET WINDOWS BRICK, THE EVERYDAY AC THAT IS MY CONCERN AS WELL. IT'S EVEN IF WE DO ONE OR TWO ITEMS, OKAY, WHERE AM I GONNA GET THIS CHARGER? WHERE AM I GONNA GET THE BIGGER PANEL WE'RE SUBMITTING RIGHT NOW TO C P SS DIFFERENT PANELS? IS THIS OKAY TO INSTALL? YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW. YEAH, THAT THANKS JOE. 'CAUSE THAT'S KIND OF MY POINT, IS THAT THIS IS, WE'RE NOT IN NORMAL TIMES RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE, TO BE THIS ASPIRATIONAL ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT EVEN IN THE, THE BOOK ANYWHERE. I MEAN, CERTAINLY THERE'S GONNA BE NEW THINGS WHEN, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE 2024 CYCLE, AND WE'LL GET A CHANCE TO REVISIT IT ALL AGAIN. UM, AND ANOTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS, YOU KNOW, BRIAN, JACK, YOU ALL BUILD HIGH-END HOMES. I MEAN, THIS APPLIES TO EVERY HOME, RIGHT? YEAH. AND EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IN THIS COMMITTEE, IN EVERY CODE BOOK, RIGHT, IS A RE IS A DEFACTO REGRESSIVE TAX. AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND. NOW, A LOT OF IT MATTERS, RIGHT? A LOT OF IT IS MAKING THE BUILDING SAFER AND EVERYBODY DESERVES THAT. BUT WHEN WE'RE BUILDING COST INTO A HOME, UM, FOR, FOR A LUXURY GOOD, UH, WHAT IS A LUXURY GOOD? AND MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT. I MEAN, I PROVIDE UNSUBSIDIZED AFFORDABLE HOUSING. YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE STOCK THAT WE OWN AND OPERATE IS BUILT IN THE SIXTIES. YOU CAN SAY , WHATEVER YOU WANT, ABOUT HOW AFFORDABLE THESE ELECTRIC CARS ARE, ARE BECOMING THAT HAS, IT HAS NO BEARING ON THE REALITY OF, OF LIFE FOR A LOT OF CITIZENS OF THE CITY. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING COSTS TO BOX PEOPLE OUTTA THE HOUSING MARKET THAT ARE ALREADY BOXED OUTTA THE HOUSING MARKET, COMPETING WITH, UH, LUMBER COSTS THAT HAVE INCREASED HUNDREDS OF PERCENT. I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT WE'RE EVEN CONSIDERING THIS, FRANKLY, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH. SO LET ME JUST JUMP IN REAL QUICK. AND AGAIN, I'M NOT A BUILDER AND I'M NOT DISPUTING THERE IS INCREASE IN COST. I JUST PERSONALLY, I THINK FOUR TO 6,000 INCREASED IN COST TO GO FROM 125 AMP TO 200 OR 200 TO 3 25. IT'S SEEMS TO ME TOO HIGH. UH, I'M, I'M ELECTRICAL ENGINEER BY EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE. AND I MEAN, JUST, JUST TO, BUT MY, I MEAN, THEY'LL JUST SAY, SORRY, OKAY, YOU DON'T WANNA PAY IT. TOO BAD. SO SAD, BYE-BYE. BUT I MEAN, AGAIN, MAYBE THESE DAYS DUE TO COVID AND, AND ALL THAT, THAT'S PROBABLY THE ISSUE. BUT LIKE, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT LOGICALLY, YOU'RE GONNA TRENCH, YOU'RE GONNA RUN THE WIRE, YOU'RE GONNA INSTALL THE PANEL. TECHNICALLY, THE ONLY ADDITIONAL COST IS THE UPGRADED PANEL. IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I'M JUST SAYING THE WIRE. I GET IT. I'M JUST TRYING TO, I'M JUST TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT FOR MYSELF. THERE'S NO UNDERSTOOD MEDICARE FACILITY PER FOOT. AS, AS, AS OUR CHAIRMAN IS SAYING, THIS DEFIES ALL LOGIC. I MEAN, AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THIS IS GONNA GO ON, BUT THIS ISN'T THE TIME TO TRY TO EXASPERATE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW. AND NOBODY GIVES US A REASON WHY THEY DON'T CARE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. WE DON'T GET A PANEL. WE DON'T HAVE A PANEL. WE CAN'T GET THAT. YOU WANT IT THIS MUCH. I MEAN, IT, THAT'S JUST THE, IT'S, IT'S A DIFFERENT WORLD WHEN YOU'RE IN THIS PART OF THE SOCIETY THAT WE'RE DOING. WE'RE NOT, WE'RE OUR WISHES. AND WHAT WE HAD TWO YEARS AGO EVEN HAS COMPLETELY CHANGED. I CAN'T EVEN PRICE A HOME RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, IT'S JUST, IT'S NUTS. OKAY, I WAS GONNA FLIP ONE LITTLE QUESTION TO HELP, TO HELP MY FRIEND OUT OVER HERE IS FOR THE COMMERCIAL MULTIFAMILY, [03:10:01] WOULD THIS ALLOW REVENUE GENERATING CAR CHARGERS? SO THAT WAY IT'S NOT SOMETHING HE'S HAVING, I WANT, YOU WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO RECOUP A COST WHERE YOU, YOU PULL UP, YOU SWIPE YOUR CARD ON IT AND THEN YOU CAN CHARGE. IS THAT, WOULD THAT FALL IS, IS, YEAH. SO LIKE A LAUNDRY MACHINE? YOU COULD, YOU COULD HAVE A REVENUE GENERATED, BUT, BUT ALSO, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, AGAIN, MY BUILDING'S ALL 1965, NO CABLE TV AT THE TIME. RIGHT. EVERYTHING'S CABLE EQUIPPED BECAUSE THE CABLE COMPANY'S PAID ME TO GO PUT THE, PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN, RIGHT? AND THEN SOLD THE CABLE. SO THE, THE, THE LOGIC HOLDS THE SAME WITH THESE ELECTRIC VEHICLE CHARGERS. IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA MAKE YOU PAY FOR THE ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE YOUR CAR, THEY'RE GONNA PAY ME FOR THE PRIVILEGE TO INSTALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE. 'CAUSE THEY KNOW THEY'RE GONNA RECOUP IT IN, IN THAT. SO I, ANYWAY, I DON'T KNOW. AND I MEAN, I MEAN, I, I SOUNDED REAL ANGRY. I'M NOT REAL, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE, WHY ARE WE HERE? WASN'T REALLY DIRECTED AT YOU. I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE PRESENTING WHAT, WHAT WAS STARTED FOUR YEARS AGO. BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE A, A IMPASSION POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE ARE TODAY AND WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD CONTINUE WITH THAT. SO JUST TO CLARIFY, WASN'T MY NO, NO, THAT, THAT'S SHAKING MY FIST AT YOU PERSONALLY. YOU'RE, YOU'RE FINE. UM, SO CHAIRMAN, MR. ROBERT ANNIE, MY TAKE ON THIS DIALOGUE IS THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO THIS. THANK YOU. THAT SEEMS TO BE THE, UH, AGREEMENT OF SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE. I WOULDN'T SAY IT'S UNANIMOUS. I, I, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. THERE ARE CERTAIN PIECES THAT, THAT, AGAIN, I WOULD REALLY GREATLY STRUGGLE WITH ON, YOU KNOW, MAYBE, MAYBE A, A MIDDLE GROUND. LIKE, OKAY, MAKE SURE THE TRUSSES IN THE, IN THE ROOF ARE READY FOR THE SOLAR READY. BUT FINE, DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE ELECTRICAL A WHOLE LOT. 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE YOUR ELECTRICAL SERVICE TO BRING A SEPARATE ENGINEER TO DO THAT LOAD ANALYSIS. I'VE GOTTA HAVE THIS PART. SO HIS COST, WELL, AND I'M GOING MORE TOWARDS MAYBE NOT THE CUSTOM HOME BUILDER, BUT I, BUT AGAIN, I'M, LOOK, YOU'RE EVEN AS A CUSTOM HOME BUILDER, YOU'RE NOT GETTING YOUR TRUSSES HAVE A TRUSS ENGINEER WHO'S DOING IT. BUT I'M SAYING LIKE, UH, UH, UH, IT HAS TO BE SPECIFIC FOR THIS, THAT PERSON. MY CONTRACTOR ARE TELLING ME THAT WIRES GOTTA BE REDONE. MY CONTRACTOR'S ALREADY TELLING ME THEY'RE GONNA REDO THE WIRE. WELL, AND AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS I, IF YOU STICK A CONDUIT IN A WALL, NO WIRE, IT JUST, IT'S THERE. RIGHT? LIKE, AND, AND WE COVERED THAT CONDUIT. AGAIN, I KNOW I'M GONNA GET CRUCIFIED CONDUIT'S CHEAP COMPARED TO WIRE. BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO ENGINEER TO MAKE SURE THAT PANEL WILL THEN BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT 40 AMP ACRE. WHAT HE'S SAYING IS HIS PARTICULAR HOME INCREASE THAT. WELL, I'M, THIS IS, THIS IS FOR LOOK OKAY FOR PV. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE WIRE SIDE. THAT'S DIFFERENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW. WELL, ALRIGHT, WELL I, ITS WHY I'M SO WE'RE, WE'RE CONFUSING THE TOPIC. SO ROBERT, WHEN YOU SAID WE DON'T WANNA DO THIS RIGHT NOW, WERE YOU RE REFERRING TO ALL OF IT OR THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE? SO THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE. SO CAN WE, CAN WE SHARE, CAN WE GO BACK TO, I GUESS WAS ITEM FOUR, I BELIEVE THE SOLAR. OKAY, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOLAR. LET'S TALK ABOUT SOLAR FIRST. WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO WITH SOLAR? SO DO YOU WANNA TABLE IT? DO YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH IT? DO YOU WANNA, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO? YEAH, DO WE, YEAH, GO AHEAD, BRIAN. OKAY. BRIAN SMITH. SO I, ON SOLAR, I'M, I'M ACTUALLY PROP PROPELLING OF SOLAR. I'VE GOT SOLAR IN MY HOUSE. I GOT IN MY OFFICE. BUT IT WAS A CHOICE THAT I DID. UH, I WAS ABLE TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WAYS OF MAKING IT AFFORDABLE, BRINGING DOWN THE R O I. BUT OVERALL FROM A COST STANDPOINT, FROM WHAT I'VE TALKED WITH MY SOLAR PEOPLE, THERE'S NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE. IF I HAD IT DONE IT ORIGINALLY, MY HOUSE IS A RETROFIT. IT COSTS ME THE SAME COST TO RETROFIT IT AS IF IT WOULD'VE BEEN A NEW HOUSE. SO MY NEW HOMES, AND I DO HAVE CUSTOMERS THAT WANT SOLAR READY AND I PUT SOLAR ON THEIR HOUSE. AND I DO ALSO THE BACKUP GENERATORS, THE ALL THE DIFFERENT OTHER STUFF AS WELL BEFORE SOME OF THESE CUSTOMERS. BUT THE COST, AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IN HERE, IS WE NEED TO DO IT NOW BECAUSE TO RETRO IT IS GONNA BE THAT MUCH MORE. AND FROM WHAT I'M GETTING FROM MY SOLAR INSTALLERS, WHICH IS MULTIPLE SOLAR INSTALLERS AND I PUT IT ON MY HOUSE, WHICH IS A 40 YEAR OLD HOUSE BUILT TO 1972, THE COST DIFFERENTIAL, WHETHER IT HAD BEEN NEW OR NOT, WAS THE SAME COST THAT I DO FOR A NEW HOME. SO I'M NOT GETTING THE COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF DOING IT LATER OR, YOU KNOW, NOW. BUT NOW ANYBODY WHO MADE THE CHOICE TO DO IT CAN GET IT DONE AS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW INSTEAD OF MANDATING. AND WHAT IT COSTS RIGHT NOW TO DO IT WOULD BE SEVEN 50 PLUS YOUR BUILDER PROFIT AND OVERHEAD OF, OF MAKING IT SOLAR READY. AND THAT'S JUST A PIPE. THAT'S NOTHING REALLY. THAT'S NOT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING ELSE. AND THAT'S FROM I E S IS ONE OF THE LARGEST SOLAR INSTALLERS IN TEXAS. YEAH. I I, CAN I ASK A QUESTION OF THE BUILDERS? IT'S THE ONLY PIECE. SAY DO WHAT ARE THE ROOFS THAT ARE BEING BUILT TODAY ON A STANDARD SINGLE FAMILY HOME WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A BUNCH OF ENGINEERING CALCULATIONS? THEY'RE PUTTING SOLAR UP BASICALLY ON EVERY HOUSE. I AM ASSUMING THE CITY REQUIRES SOME DOCUMENTATION THAT THE ROOF [03:15:01] IS STRUCTURALLY SOUND TO BE ABLE NO ENGINEERING ON IT TO SUPPORT IT. NO. DO WE? YEAH. NOW IN THE PREVIOUS CITY WHERE I DID THIS, YOU HAD TO, YOU HAD TO PROVE WHAT CODE SAYING DID YOU HAVE TO PROVE? AND THAT WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL COPY. NO, NO. WHAT I'M ASKING IS TODAY SOMEBODY COMES IN WITH A PERMIT TO PUT SOLAR PANELS ON THEIR ROOF. WE DO REQUIRE, RIGHT. DO YOU REQUIRE MARK? I CAN, I CAN, I CAN ANSWER THAT. 'CAUSE WE ARE GOING, IN MY COMPANY, WE ARE ADDING SOLAR ARRAYS TO, TO TWO APARTMENT COMMUNITIES AND FOR THE ENGINEER, NOT FOR THE CITY. WE HAVEN'T EVEN GONE TO THE PERMITS YET. BUT FOR THE ENGINEER THAT WAS DESIGNING THE SYSTEM, WE HAD TO GO UP IN THE ATTIC AND MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE ROOF STRUCTURE COULD SUPPORT WHAT THEY WERE GONNA PUT ON. UM, AND SO I THINK THAT ANY, YOU KNOW, BEFORE, BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO THE, TO THE CITY, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER'S INSTALLING IT BECAUSE THEY ARE GONNA WARRANTY THEIR PRODUCT IS, IS MORE THAN LIKELY IF IT'S ENGINEERED GONNA REQUIRE THAT. BUT YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S FOR ME FOR THE SOLAR READY, I'M WITH YOU THE CONDUIT HALF THAT ALL'S BEING RUN ON THE ROOF, EVERYTHING'S BEING DONE EXTERNAL. THE ONLY ONE I'M WORRIED ABOUT FOR SOLAR READY ON RESIDENTIAL IS JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE THE STRUCTURAL THAT CAN HOLD IT. THAT'S IT. THAT'S SO NO, NO, BUT SO MY QUESTION ENGINEER, BECAUSE YOU NEED A COUPLE BRIAN SMITH . SO YOU HAVE TO DO A COUPLE DIFFERENT THINGS. SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ENGINEER THAT WILL DO THE ANALYSIS OF THE LOAD ANALYSIS, BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT TO DICTATE IN CODE WHAT TYPE OF KILOWATTS WHAT'S THE POUNDS PER FOOT AS FAR AS WHAT YOU'RE SETTING JUST DEAD LOAD TO THE ROOF. I KNOW. SO, SO AGAIN, THEY'LL HAVE TO PUT THAT IN ADDITION TO IT. YOU THEN HAVE TO DESIGNATE ON THE PLANS TO SHOW THAT WHERE IT'S GONNA GO AND CLEAR SO THAT PLUMBING AS FIRES ALL YOUR VENT. SO ALL THIS IS ENGINEERING COSTS THAT WILL PROBABLY COST A COUPLE GRAND FOR AN ENGINEER TO DESIGN AND PUT TOGETHER FOR A RESIDENTIAL PER HOME. AND, AND I THINK IT'S ALSO, I MEAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE APPENDIX THAT'S WRITTEN INTO THE, TO THE MODEL CODE APPENDIX THAT TALKS ABOUT ROOF LOAD? NO, I, I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. YEAH. FOR RESIDENTIAL? YEAH, RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL. THERE'S NOTHING. BECAUSE I THINK WE BROUGHT THIS UP, UM, WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE I B C OR THE I R C I CAN'T REMEMBER. UM, WHEN I SAY WE, I I DID, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE ROOF LOADS, ARE WE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FORWARD TO THE, TO THIS CONVERSATION, IS THERE ANYTHING IN THERE THAT, THAT ADDRESSES WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? BECAUSE IT, TO ME IT MAKES SENSE THAT IT SHOULD SOMETHING THAT HAVE RACKS OR SOME THAT DIFFERENT, HAVE DIFFERENT INSTALLATIONS THAT GO ON THE ROOF AS FAR AS YEAH, BUT IF PUT IN A FIVE POUNDS PER SQUARE FOOT DEAD LOAD, WHICH IS, BUT BUT NOTHING HAS IT STATED IN HERE WHAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, I'M, WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE BUILDING CODE AND THE RESIDENTIAL CODE, I KNOW JEREMY PROBABLY REMEMBERS THIS MEET, I DON'T REMEMBER IF YOU WERE HERE THOSE, WHEN LOUIS RAUS WAS HERE. ANYTIME YOU PUT A SOLAR ARRAY ON A ROOF, IT'S NOT ONLY THE DEAD LOAD CORRECT, BUT IT'S THE WIND LOAD. RIGHT. AND SO YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE THOSE THINGS ENGINEERED. AND WE, I THOUGHT WE HAD SOME SORT OF COMMENT, JEREMY, DURING THE I R C OR THE I B C REVIEW. YOU'RE RIGHT. SO LET ME, LET ME JUMP IN TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. SO IN THE APPENDIX OF 2018 CODE AND 20 20, 20 21 CODE, I'M, I'M LOOKING AT THE RESIDENTIAL RIGHT NOW. RA 1 0 3 0.5, ROOF LOAD DOCUMENTATION, THE STRUCTURE DESIGN LOADS FOR THE ROOF, DEAD LOAD AND ROOF LIFE LOAD SHALL BE CLEARLY INDICATED ON THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION. YOU CAN'T JUST GO AND INSTALL IT WITHOUT ANYTHING. I KNOW, BUT THE, MY QUESTION IS, IS YOU'RE RIGHT NOW, TODAY YOU'RE ACCEPTING PERMITS TO PUT SOLAR ON ROOFS, CORRECT? YES. WHAT DUE DILIGENCE IS DONE BY ANYBODY TO SEE IF THE ROOF IS ABLE TO, I GUARANTEE YOU THE, THE, THE INSTALLER, THEY DON'T CARE. THEY'RE JUST PUTTING IT UP. SO WHO IS, WHO IS VERIFYING THAT THE ROOF ON A TRACTED HOME THAT WAS MINIMALLY BUILT TO PROBABLY TO BEGIN WITH TWO BY FOUR RAFTERS RIGHT? TO ABLE TO SUPPORT THE WEIGHT OF THE ROOF SO THAT WE DON'T CITY DOESN'T END UP WITH A BUNCH OF WINDSTORMS AND COLLAPSED ROOFS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. I I, THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION 'CAUSE MY TEAM IS TELLING ME DIFFERENT, I THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING A LETTER FROM AN ENGINEER TELLING US IT CAN, UH, ALLOW FOR THAT. BUT THEY'RE TELLING ME IT'S ONLY FOR COMMERCIAL. COMMERCIAL. WELL THE COMMERCIAL ARE THOSE PE PEOPLE WHO HAVE COMMERCIAL ARE GOING THROUGH THAT D DUE DILIGENCE. 'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO GET SUED WHEN THE ROOF COLLAPSES. BUT ON A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE, THERE'S NONE OF THOSE PROTECTIONS WAYS OF STATING IT NOW. AND THAT ADDITIONAL COST WOULD PROBABLY, WELL NO, NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT ADVOCATING WE DO IT FOR EVERY HOUSE. I'M ADVOCATING BEFORE [03:20:01] SOMEWHERE IN THIS PROCESS. WE PUT A REQUIREMENT IN THAT BEFORE ANY, YOU KNOW, THING, EXTRA WEIGHT CAN BE ADDED TO THE ROOF. YOU HAVE TO GET A, AN ENGINEERING LETTER THAT SAYS YOU'RE GONNA REDUCE THE, SO PEOPLE YOU'RE GONNA ADD A COST AND CHANGE OUR, SO I UNDERSTAND. SO THE SAFETY RISK. SO LET ME, UM, JUST, I'M GONNA TRY AND GET A HANDLE ON ON WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE DOING HERE REAL FAST. SO WE'VE GOT THREE CODE COMPONENTS AND IT'S, IT'S NOON, RIGHT? SO DO WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR EACH ONE, RESIDENTIAL SOLAR READY, COMMERCIAL, SOLAR READY AND THIS EV THAT WE'VE CREATED, I THINK WE NEED TO GIVE AN, UH, KIND OF AN INITIAL UP AND DOWN, UP OR DOWN VOTE ON DO WE WANT TO RECOMMEND ADOPTION OF THIS TO THE, TO THE FULL BOARD. AND I THINK IF IT'S A YES, THEN THERE'S PROBABLY ANOTHER MEETING TO HASH OUT SOME OF THE DETAILS THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA GET DONE TODAY. BUT IF IT'S A NO, THEN WE CAN JUST NIP IT IN THE BUD RIGHT NOW. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A REASONABLE WAY TO GO ABOUT THIS? YES SIR. YES. OKAY. I'M JUST, I'M SORRY. JUST TO CLARIFY THAT FINAL THING, UH, RICHARD JUST MENTIONED THAT WE DO HAVE INFORMATION BULLETS IN 1 50, 1 53 THAT BASICALLY TALKS ABOUT WE NEED TO HAVE, UH, THE ROOF CHECKED BASICALLY TO MAKE SURE IT CAN IB 1 56, UH, 1 53. SO, AND WHILE HE'S, WHILE HE'S DOING THAT, LET'S, LET'S START WITH THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE. UM, AND ROBERT, IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE, UH, MAKING A MOTION. IT SOUNDED SORT OF LIKE IT WAS MOTIONING, UH, ABOUT, UH, WHAT TO DO WITH THE EV EXTRA VEHICLE, OR IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ROBERT. YES. I, I MOVE THAT ON, ON THE, UH, EV UH, THAT WE DENY THE, UH, MOTION BRIAN SMITH SECOND. OKAY. SO THE REC THE, THE MOTION IS TO NOT ADOPT THE EV DRAFT CHAPTER, NOT, NOT PURSUE ADOPTION OF THE EV DRAFT CHAPTER. YEAH, LET ME BETTER SAY IT. I, I RECOMMEND PROPOSE THAT WE, UH, DO NOT ADOPT, UH, AGENDA ITEM FIVE, UH, FOR EVS. AND, AND THEN WE HAVE, SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, BUT, UH, MOTION BY, UH, ROBERT SECOND. SECOND BY, UH, BRIAN, IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE EV UH, ELECTRIC VEHICLE BEFORE WE PROCEED TO A VOTE? WOULD, WOULD WE ALLOW ANY SORT OF PARTIAL ON THE EV OR WE, ARE WE EVEN INTERESTED ON DOING A PARTIAL PIECE TO TRY TO AVOID THE $5,000 HIT LATER ON? LIKE MAYBE JUST UPSIZE A CONDUIT BETWEEN THE EXTERIOR PANEL AND THE INTERIOR PANEL. SO IT'S EASY TO PULL WIRE LATER. THE MO THE MOTION IS TO, TO NOT DO ANY OF THAT. OKAY. UH, AND LET ME BEFORE WE, WE VOTE ON THAT CHAIRMAN, UH, GREG. THE, THE, THE THING IS, IS THIS ALWAYS GOES BACK BEFORE THE FULL BOARD, THE ENTIRE PEOPLE. IF SOMEBODY COMES IN AND MAKES A CASE FOR, UH, WE WILL MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION AS A SUBCOMMITTEE TO RECONSIDER THAT ITEM, CORRECT? CHAIRMAN, SAY AGAIN? I'M, I'M SORRY. I'M SAYING THAT OUR RECOMMENDATION IS DECLINING, BUT IT, IF SOMEBODY COMES BACK FOR, WITH, AT THE FULL BOARD WITH A REASON TO, TO ADDRESS WHAT MR. FROG IS SAYING IS THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT AGAIN. IT'S NOT ETCHED IN STONE. TODAY WILL BE AFTER IT GOES FULL BOARD. SO, UM, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO NAY. OKAY. SO WE HAVE ONE, UH, NO FROM GREG AND THE REST ARE, UH, YESES, AYES, WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL IT. AND SO THAT PASSES. SO THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMITTEE IS NOT TO ADOPT THE EV SUBCHAPTER OR NOT PURSUE ADOPTION OF THE EV SUBCHAPTER. SO WE'LL START NEXT ON THE, UH, COMMERCIAL SOLAR READY PROVISIONS. UM, AND AGAIN, THE WHAT, WHAT I'M GONNA ASK FOR, WE'RE NOT GONNA SOLVE IT TODAY 'CAUSE WE'RE IT'S ALREADY PAST NOON. THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO TRY AND PLAY WITH THIS TO GET IT TO A, A PLACE WHERE WE THINK WE CAN, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, VOTE TO APPROVE IT? SO IT'S BASICALLY A, UH, A VOTE TO CONTINUE DISCUSSION. SO ON THE SOLAR READY FOR COMMERCIAL, YEAH. CHAIRMAN ROBERT HAN AGAIN, AS IT'S CURRENTLY PROPOSED, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S A CONSENSUS ON THIS SUBCOMMITTEE TO ADOPT IT, BUT, UH, I THINK THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE ON THE SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE OR MODIFICATION TO HOW IT'S CURRENTLY PROPOSED. AND, UH, WITH THAT IN MIND, I AGREE WITH THE CHAIR THAT BRING THAT BACK AND LET'S SEE WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE SOMETHING MORE ACCEPTABLE IF WE'RE GONNA MAKE ANY HEADWAY ON THAT. SO IF I WERE TO REPEAT THAT IN MORE OF A, A MOTION KIND OF FORM, IT WOULD BE YOU'D, YOU, YOU SOUND LIKE MAYBE YOU'D BE MOVING TO, UM, TO TABLE THIS AND HAVE A FURTHER DISCUSSION ON, ON A C COMMERCIAL SOLAR. READY? ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU ROBERT FOR THAT MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. THANK YOU JACK. ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SOUNDS UNANIMOUS. SO CHAIR, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY, NORMALLY WHEN YOU TABLE AN ITEM, I HAVE A HOMEWORK TO DO. SO ON THIS ONE, IS IT JUST TABLE IT TO DISCUSS IT NEXT TIME? OR IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO DO ON OUR END? NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S TABLING. I THINK IT'S JUST WE'RE GONNA SCHEDULE ANOTHER EITHER A SUB SUBCOMMITTEE [03:25:01] OR JUST A MEETING OF THIS COMMITTEE TO REALLY HASH OUT THE DETAILS OF WHAT, OF WHAT SOCIAL CO COMMERCIAL READY MIGHT LOOK LIKE. AND IT MIGHT EVEN GET DENIED, BUT IT AT LEAST IT'S JUST GONNA WARRANT MORE. WE JUST DID JUST CONVERSATION. OKAY. CHAIRMAN. I MEAN THE, I I THINK THE, MY, UH, TAKE ON THIS AND, AND I'LL DEFER TO THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS HERE, IS THAT AS IT'S CURRENTLY PRESENTED, IT'S NOT VERY PALATABLE, BUT IF THERE'S SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE OR SOME MODIFICATION TO THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET SOME SEMBLANCE OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE ACCEPTABLE TO BE, TO BE PASSED. OKAY. BUT IF YOU BRING IT BACK JUST LIKE IT IS NOW, I DON'T THINK IT'LL PASS. AND THAT, THAT'S SPECIFICALLY TO COMMERCIAL SOLAR SYSTEMS OR NOT THAT ALONE. OKAY. SO NOW, SO NOW WE'LL DEAL WITH UM, RESIDENTIAL SOLAR READY. UH, I'D MAKE A MOTION TO DENY AS PRESENTED. BRIAN SMITH. I'LL SECOND. OKAY. SO WHAT THIS MOTION WOULD DO WOULD MEAN THAT WE'RE NOT EVEN GONNA GO TRY AND HAVE A FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT RESIDENTIAL ONE IN TWO FAMILY DWELLING SOLAR READY, THAT WE'RE JUST GONNA, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY WE'RE VOTING TO NOT ADOPT THAT APPENDIX RRB OF THE 2021 I E C C. THAT'S WHAT THE MOTION ON THE, ON THE TABLE MEANS, CORRECT? YES. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? YO, ME . OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, SO WHAT WE'VE, MY JOB, HOLD ON JUST A SECOND MARK. SO BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE SAYING THEN IS THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA PURSUE THE, UH, UH, APPENDIX RRB SOLAR READY PROVISIONS FOR, UH, DETACHED ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS AND TOWN HOMES. WE ARE GONNA HAVE A, A FOLLOW ON MEETING WITH THIS COMMITTEE FOR, TO, TO DISCUSS AND REFINE THE COMMERCIAL SOLAR READY. AND WE'VE ALSO MADE A MOTION THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA PURSUE, UM, ADDING A, UH, OUR OWN CHAPTER FOUR ELECTRIC VEHICLES, MARK AND THEN GREG. OKAY. SO EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT DOING THE SOLAR READY, UH, FOR RESIDENTIAL, I THINK, UH, GREG'S POINT OF HOW IT CAN BE ADDED LATER SHOULD BE ADDRESSED SOMEWHERE IN THE N E C TO ALLOW FOR, DON'T FORGET FLASH TO BE CONNECTED INTO SOME OTHER PANELS. SO I THINK WE NEED TO EXPLORE THAT. WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT IN THE COMMERCIAL. YEAH, THAT, THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I WAS JUST GONNA SAY IS I STILL WOULD LIKE TO, I DON'T KNOW IF IT NEEDS TO BE IN MOTION OR WE JUST TAKE THE CITY RIGHT NOW, IT'S NO, NO, NO. IS THAT WE WANT THE CITY TO APPROACH C P S TO UNDERTAKE WHAT OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE DOING IN AN EFFORT TO LOWER THE COST TO INSTALL IT. I E ALLOWING THE USE OF, YOU KNOW, SUBPANEL A SUBPANEL I E LIKE AT THE AIR CONDIT, AN AIR CONDITIONING SUBPANEL AT THAT LOCATION, SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, GETTING RID OF THE EXTRA METER THAT THEY, THAT THEY PUT IN THAT. AGAIN, MOST OF THE JURISDICTIONS I WORK IN DON'T USE THOSE REQUIREMENTS. AND I THINK WE, WE SHOULD ASK THE CITY STAFF AND OR THE CITY COUNCIL TO APPROACH C P S JUST THIS COAST, GREG. THAT'S FINE. CAN I ASK IF A, CAN I ASK A A DO IN FROM YOU BASICALLY IF YOU COULD PUT INTO WRITING SOME OF THOSE PROVISIONS IN A FORM THAT WE COULD PASS AND PRESENT, I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. LIKE THESE RECOMMENDATION, RIGHT? WE CAN MAKE A REP RECOMMENDATION AND I THINK IT WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IF IT WAS WRITTEN OUT IN, IN SOME SPECIFICS. UM, 'CAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU. YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE, THERE'S ROOM FOR MAKING IT EASIER. IT CAN BE IN CRAYON. YEAH, THAT WORKS . UM, AND IF YOU WANNA SEND THAT TO US A LITTLE BIT BEFORE I JUST CONFERRED WITH, UH, C P S, I MEAN WE WE'RE HAPPY, UM, TO WORK WITH THEM AND TRY TO HAVE SOMETHING. SO IF YOU PROVIDE US WITH SOMETHING WE CAN TRY TO MEET BEFOREHAND AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU PRESENT SOMETHING TO US, BUT SOMETHING THAT'S AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSENSUS ACROSS ALL THREE ORGANIZATIONS. Y'ALL'S COMMITTEE YEAH, I'LL OUR D S D AND, AND C P S. THEN I'LL, I'LL TRY TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT WAS, IT WAS KCP AND L WHERE I'VE DONE IT WITHOUT HAVING TO DO THE EXTRA, THE, IT WAS STILL NET METERED, BUT WITH A SINGLE METER, NO EXTRA METERS AND IT TIED IN. SO I'LL GO SEE IF I CAN FIND SOME OF THOSE OTHER UTILITY, YOU KNOW, BIG UTILITY COMPANIES THAT, THAT ARE ALLOWING THIS AND, AND THAT'S AND THAT AGAIN, AND THEY'LL HAVE ANY ENGINEERING ON IT. YEAH. YEAH. AND ADDITIONALLY THE CCP S STANDARD DOES THE GO THROUGH THIS BOARD AS WELL. SO WHILE THEY DO A LOT OF THE OWN RECOMMENDATIONS AND DEVELOPING IT, IT DOES GO THROUGH THE BOARD. AND WE DO CREATE A COMMITTEE WHEN THEY DO ADOPT THE NEW ONE. THEY DID IT RECENTLY, I THINK ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEIR TIMETABLE IS, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING, I MEAN, IT, IT DOES FUNNEL AND THIS BOARD'S PURVIEW A LITTLE BIT AS WELL. COULD, COULD SOMEBODY SEND ME WHERE CCP S'S REQUIREMENT IS FOR SOME OF THOSE PIECES AND THEN THAT WAY I CAN SEE EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE DOING. IF YOU WANNA SEND IT TO JEREMY, THEN JEREMY CAN FORWARD IT TO ME. SURE, SURE. BUT IT, BUT, BUT IT'S IN OUR ELECTRIC, UH, STANDARDS BOOK CODE SECTION 2000 SECTION 2000 , YEAH. SECTION 2000. BUT WE'LL GET THAT OVER. YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL HELP WITH THAT. BUT YEAH, SHOOT ME SOMETHING. UM, SO JEREMY C LET ME ASK ROBERT HANLEY ONE CLARIFICATION. UM, OBVIOUSLY I THINK THAT WE, YOU, YOU HAVE THE PULSE OF, OF THIS COMMITTEE [03:30:01] SUBCOMMITTEE AND, AND THE, UH, ON THIS ISSUE. BUT, UM, IF CLEAR LANGUAGE THAT WAS MORE PALATABLE COME OUT, THERE'S OTHER METHODS TO GET THIS, UH, PART OF THE PROCESS AND THE RULES AND REGULATIONS, RIDS IBS, UH, AREN'T THERE, WHAT ARE THE OTHER VEHICLES THAT THE CITY HAS AT THEIR DISCRETION, UH, FROM EITHER COUNCIL LEVEL OR TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES TO SAY, HEY, WE REALLY WANT THIS AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO AS FAR AS THE C P S STANDARD REQUIREMENT OR THROUGH THE SOLAR READY AND EV THE SOLAR READY AND SOLAR READY AND EV READY, I MEAN, MEAN, YOU KNOW, IT GOT BROUGHT UP SAYING MEMO DIRECTING SOMEBODY THAT'S NOT THE ONLY CORRECT. YEAH. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY BROUGHT UP IN LAST TIME IN THE PEP I MEETING, UH, JIM RODRIGUEZ BROUGHT UP, THERE WAS A CITY ORDINANCE THAT GOT ADOPTED, I THINK UNDER MAYOR HARBERGER THAT KIND OF SAID, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA ADOPT THIS. AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS IN CONJUNCTION WITH D S D AND I THINK ULTIMATELY THAT ORDINANCE LANGUAGE WAS DEVELOPED, BUT IT KIND OF SAID WE'RE GONNA ADOPT THESE MINIMUMS UNDER THE ENERGY. SO THERE ARE OTHER AVENUES OUTSIDE OF THIS COMMITTEE AND THIS BOARD THAT CITY COULD ADOPT THOSE IV UH, THOSE REQUIREMENTS. UM, THIS IS BURNING RIGHT HERE? THAT IS CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. SO THERE ARE OTHER AVENUES THROUGH, WHETHER IT BE A C C R FROM CITY COUNCIL AGENDA OR SOMEBODY WORKING THROUGH CITY COUNCIL TO COME UP WITH THE ORDINANCE, WHETHER THROUGH OUR DEPARTMENT OR ANOTHER DEPARTMENT AT THE CITY THAT DOES GET A VOTED AND APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL. THANK YOU. BUT JUST TO CLARIFY, SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS, UM, WE AS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, WE CANNOT ENFORCE, WE CANNOT ENFORCE ANY CODES UNLESS THEY'RE ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL, CORRECT? CORRECT. AND IF, UM, CITY COUNCIL MEETS TO GO OVER SOME OF THE SECTIONS AND ADOPT IT, NOT NECESSARILY EVERYONE IS INVOLVED. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND. CORRECT. WE UNDERSTAND THAT. I KNOW . OKAY. UH, SO I THINK THAT CONCLUDES ALL OUR AGENDA ITEMS. UH, I MEAN WE GET TO THE LAST PAGE REAL FAST ON THE PRESENTATION, UH, JUST SO WE HAVE IT UP ON THERE. UH, EVERYBODY'S SEEN THIS MANY TIMES, SO I'LL HAVE THIS UP HERE. UH, FOR ANYBODY THAT'S WATCHING IT FROM HOME, THEY'LL KNOW HOW TO CONTACT US AND STUFF. SO WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS, IS DISCUSS THE MEETING, NEXT MEETING. SO WE HAVE THREE MEETINGS FOR THIS COMMITTEE SET UP ON YOUR CALENDARS. I, FOR SOME REASON SAID ONE 30 INSTEAD OF ONE O'CLOCK. I'LL GET THAT AMENDED. SO IT'D BE A ONE O'CLOCK, ONE O'CLOCK START. IT'S THE NEXT THREE THURSDAYS. NOT THIS THURSDAY, BUT NEXT THURSDAY. UH, AND THEN THREE AFTER THAT. IF SOUNDS LIKE WE NEED TO MEET ONE MORE TIME TO AT LEAST DISCUSS, UH, SOLAR READY FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS. UM, WE ALREADY HAVE THREE COMMITTEE MEETINGS NEXT, CORRECT? JUNE 2ND, BUT WE ALREADY HAVE, WE HAD ADDED THE INTER OR THE I F C TO NEXT WEEK. SO WE HAVE I THINK THE 31ST. UH, AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE A DOUBLE DIPPING NEXT WEEK SIGNED COACH MEETING ON THE FIRST. AND THEN, UH, SO MY THOUGHT WOULD BE MAYBE WE, IF THIS MIGHT BE THE LAST MEETING, LET'S CANCEL NEXT WEEK. LET'S MEET ON THE NINTH. I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE. UH, THAT WAY WE CAN ALSO PUSH OUT TO ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT ARE IMPACTED BY THIS AND REALLY MAKE SURE THEY'RE AWARE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE AT LEAST ONE MORE MEETING. UH, POSSIBLY THIS MIGHT BE THE LAST MEETING OF THE ENERGY CODE COMMITTEE. IF Y'ALL HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO SAY, PLEASE BE HERE OR PROVIDE US. SO IT GIVES US TWO WEEKS TO REALLY DO A GOOD, UH, STAKEHOLDER PUSH OUT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE AWARE OF THAT MEETING AND, UH, OR AVAILABLE TO BE NEXT WEEK. YEAH. SO THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT I, I WON'T BE HERE FOR THE NINTH, UM, WHICH I'M SURE JUST BREAKS A LOT OF HEARTS. UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, JACK, I'M SURE YOU CAN, YOU CAN CARRY ON. YOU HAVE COCHAIR WHO'S YOUR CO CAN CARRY. YEAH, CO-CHAIR IS ROBERT HENLEY. LEO WHO? ROBERT HENLEY. OH NO, JOE. YEAH, JOE. ANYWAY, JUST YEAH, ON THE, NO, ON THIS ONE. ACCORDING TO THE MEETING, MADE ASIDE. LOOKED IT UP. 'CAUSE SOMEBODY ASKED ME, I WAS LIKE, LEMME DOUBLE CHECK. I GOT WAY TOO MANY. BUT YEAH, IT'S ROBERT HENLEY IS THE CO-CHAIR FOR THIS COMMITTEE. OKAY. LET LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. UH, DON'T WE HAVE A MEETING NEXT, UH, TUESDAY, THE 31ST IN THE AFTERNOON? FOR, FOR THE I F C FI? I F C? YES SIR. YEAH, THAT WAS THE ONE THAT GOT ADDED. THAT'S WHY I'M KIND OF, WE ALREADY HAVE THREE MEETINGS NEXT WEEK, SO IF WE'RE GONNA CANCEL ONE, I'M GOOD WITH CANCELING THAT ONE AND THEN MEETING THIS COMMITTEE ON THE NINTH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO THE CONSENSUS IT SOUNDS LIKE IS CANCEL NEXT WEEK. WE'LL GET THAT INFORMATION OUT THERE. WE'LL MEET AGAIN ON THE NINTH AT 1:00 PM I'LL UPDATE EVERYBODY'S, UH, CALENDARS FOR THAT. WE'LL KEEP THE 16TH ONE THERE JUST IN CASE WE NEED TO. SO CAN I ASK SOME QUESTION? IF WE CANCEL THE TWO AND MAKE IT ON THE 16TH, WE COULD DO THAT, BUT IT JUST, IT PUTS US OUT AT THE END OF WHAT WE ARE HOPING TO BE. THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS SEGMENTS, IT COULD START RUNNING INTO JUST IN CASE THERE IS ANY BLEED OVER. AND WE DO NEED TO HAVE ONE MORE MEETING, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE THE NINTH. SO, ALL RIGHT, THE NINTH IT IS. OKAY. THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH. ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. WE STAND ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.