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WE'RE GONNA CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.
THE TIME IS 1:18 PM THIS IS THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD, SAN ANTONIO PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE COMMITTEE MEETING.
CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MS. BROWN HERE.
ALSO PRESENT IN THE MEETING FROM THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
AND FROM DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
AMIN TOMAS, DEPUTY DIRECTOR DANNY LEGAS, CODE ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATOR.
JENNY RAMIREZ, CODE ENFORCEMENT MANAGER.
AND MYSELF, ESTHER ORTIZ, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES SPECIALIST.
BEFORE WE GET STARTED, OUR NEW MEMBER NEEDS A I M P C BOOK, IF WE HAVE ANY.
UH, JUST, JUST FOR THE, UH, RECORD, WE DO NOT HAVE A COURT.
UM, WE NEED ONE MORE VOTING MEMBER TO BE PRESENT SO WE CAN DISCUSS, BUT THERE CAN BE NO ACTION AT THIS POINT UNTIL THAT MEMBER COMES WHO WE UNDERSTAND IS ON THE WAY.
WE HAVE FIVE OUT OF 10 VOTING MEMBERS.
WE NEED AT LEAST SIX FOR THE RECORD.
WE DON'T VOTE UNTIL AT THE END ANYWAY.
UH, ARE WE GONNA DO THE STATEMENTS AND INTERPRETER, OR ARE WE JUST GONNA WAIT UNTIL ALL MEMBERS ARE PRESENT? WE CAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY PROCEED AND WE CAN HAVE THE INTERPRETER, UH, INTRODUCED ON THE RECORD AND THE SERVICES OFFERED.
UM, GOOD MORNING, SPANISH TRANSLATION.
SPANISH TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE DURING THIS MEETING.
THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH.
TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE FOR APPLICANTS AND THOSE THAT SIGNED UP TO SPEAK.
WE DON'T HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE CAN'T DO APPROVAL MINUTES.
WHAT'S THE NUMBER WE HAVE TO HAVE FOR QUORUM? SIX.
SO, SO THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UH, WE HAVE 10 VOTING MEMBERS ON THIS COMMITTEE.
AND TO HAVE QUORUM, WE NEED TO HAVE MORE THAN 50%, WHICH IS SIX.
YOU CANNOT APPROVE MEETING MINUTES.
AT THIS POINT, WE CAN JUMP INTO ITEM TWO AND DISCUSS THE CHANGES AND THE CODE.
AS LONG AS WE DON'T MAKE ANY ACTION, UH, AT THIS POINT, UH, WE ARE FINE TO DISCUSS IT, UH, BUILD CONSENSUS BASICALLY ON IT, BUT WE CANNOT TAKE ANY ACTION UNTIL WE HAVE A QUORUM.
UM, DOES THAT ALSO MEAN THAT THE ITEM TWO AND 11 FROM LAST WEEK BE BROUGHT FORTH? OR DO WE WAIT TILL THE VOTING MEMBER,
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'CAUSE WE DID PUT THOSE ON A, UH, A TABLE? NO, WE, WE CAN, WE CAN DISCUSS ANY OF THOSE ITEMS AGAIN, AS LONG AS WE DON'T TAKE ACTION.UM, THEN I, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, UH, MS. MADAM CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO BRING UP TOPIC TWO TO SEE IF COUNCIL HAS THE INFORMATION THAT WAS, UH, TABLED.
YEAH, THE RECOMMENDATION STILL STANDS TO REMOVE REASONABLE, IT IS A UNDEFINED TERM IN THE, UM, CODES.
AND AS SUCH, IT WOULD ADD AMBIGUITY TO OUR ADOPTION OF IT AND MAKE IT, UM, MORE DIFFICULT TO DEFEND OR LITIGATE IN COURT.
DO WE NEED TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETING? AS OF RIGHT NOW, WE ONLY HAVE, WE NEED ONE MORE VOTING MEMBER.
SO WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS SOME OTHER ISSUES BEFORE WE DO ANY VOTING, UM, DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW, UH, NOW, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, MADAM CHAIR, UM, WASN'T, THAT WAS GONNA BE A CHANGE, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS A CHANGE FROM THE OLD LANGUAGE, CORRECT.
SO DID WE REPLACE THE TERM REASONABLE WITH WHAT NO, THE, IT'S, IT'S NOT REPLACED.
SO, SO THE SUGGESTION WOULD BE TO, UH, REMOVE, RE REASONABLE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE, THE REST OF THE STATEMENT WHERE IT SAYS LEVEL THE REST OF THE STATEMENT IS FINE, BECAUSE THERE ARE DEFINITIONS THAT GO TOWARDS THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WE WELFARE, UH, BOTH IN CASE LAW AS WELL AS, UH, IN STATUTORY FORMAT.
AND THAT ACTUALLY REFLECTS THE OLD LANGUAGE.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? YEAH, CAN, CAN YOU PROVIDE ANY, UH, UH, UH, LOGIC OR MORE EXPLANATION TO WHAT IS THE GAINS FROM MOVING FROM REASONABLE MINIMUM LEVEL TO MINIMUM LEVEL? WHAT ARE THE GAINS AND WHAT ARE THE LOGIC BEHIND? SO THE TRADITIONAL LANGUAGE IS MINIMUM LEVEL, AND THAT HAS BEEN LITIGATED FOR DECADES AND DECADES.
SO THERE IS A LOT OF CASE LAW, THERE'S A LOT OF LEGAL HISTORY ESTABLISHING WHAT THAT IS.
AND ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT IS, IS IT SIMPLY IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE HAVE IN THE BOOKS, RIGHT? AND THAT IS THE MINIMUM LEVEL IN THE SAME WAY THAT, UM, IN THE TRAFFIC CODE, IF YOU ARE GOING THE, THE SPEED LIMIT OR WHAT HAVE YOU, THEN THAT'S, THAT IS WHAT IT IS, RIGHT? SO THE ADDITION OF THE TERM REASONABLE THEN ADDS SOME AMBIGUITY BECAUSE THEN IT SAYS, OR THE ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM THE MINIMUM LEVEL? WE KNOW WHAT THE MINIMUM LEVEL IS.
NOW WHAT'S THE REASONABLE MINIMUM LEVEL? UM, AND I'M NOT SURE WHY THEY ADDED THAT IN THERE, UH, WITHOUT A FURTHER DEFINITION, BECAUSE THIS, AND I'M GONNA COMPARE AND CONTRAST IT WITH THE TRAFFIC CODE.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE TRAFFIC CODE, AND THEY DO HAVE THIS DEFINED AS SUCH, AND THAT'S WHY IT'S, IT'S EASY AND WE CAN USE IT.
THEY SAY YOU'VE GOT TWO POSSIBLE VIOLATIONS WHEN YOU'RE SPEEDING OVER THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT.
NUMBER ONE IS THAT YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY SPEEDING, RIGHT? YOU'RE GOING OVER THAT POSTED SPEED LIMIT.
BUT THE SECOND OFFENSE THAT HAPPENS STATUTORILY, IS YOU ARE GOING IN EXCESS OF A REASONABLE SPEED.
THE DEFINITION OF REASONABLE SPEED IS GOING OVER THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT.
SO, SO IT, IT SYNERGIZES AND WORKS WELL AND LOOPS BACK IN THAT INSTANCE.
UNFORTUNATELY, IN THIS CASE, WE DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION THAT THAT LOOPS IT BACK.
AND SO IT DOES OPEN IT UP TO ARGUMENTS FROM THE OTHER SIDE THAT SAYS, WELL,
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YOU KNOW, MAYBE THE MINIMUM STANDARD, CLEARLY WE ADDED THAT LANGUAGE FOR A REASON.AND SO IF IT'S NO LONGER THE MINIMUM STANDARD THAN WHAT IS IT? AND SO NOW WE GET AN ARGUMENT IN THE COURT TO TRY AND DEFINE WHAT THAT IS, BECAUSE THE OTHER PART OF STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION IS THAT NO WORD IS BROUGHT IN WITHOUT A PURPOSE, WITHOUT A MEANING.
SO THE ISSUE IS WHAT IS THIS MEANING? AND WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
SO IN THAT, IN THAT SENSE, WE CAN SAY SAFELY THAT IF WE REMOVE REASONABLE, BUT LEAVE MINIMUM IN, WE CAN SAFELY SAY THAT THERE'S NOT GONNA BE AMBIGUITY FOR EITHER THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE PEOPLE RECEIVING A, A, A, A VIOLATION CODE OR THE PEOPLE HANDING OUT A VALUATION CODE FOR BEING UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE MINIMUM IS.
THE MINIMUM IS SOMEWHERE IN THE, IN THE PROPERTY CODE, AND IT'S UNDERSTOOD AND WELL KNOWN.
THIS IS, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
JUST TO ADD TO THAT, AGAIN, I'M NOT AN ATTORNEY, BUT JUST TO ADD TO THAT.
SO THE MINIMUM LEVEL OF HEALTH AND SAFETY IS ALREADY IN THE CODE.
IT'S BEEN IN THE CODE FOR FOUR YEARS.
SO TECHNICALLY, AS SAM SAID, UH, BASICALLY OUR MINIMUM CODE TELLS YOU YOU NEED TO DO A, B, C.
THE MINUTE YOU ADD THE WORD REASONABLE, REASONABLE TO YOU IS DIFFERENT THAN ME, DIFFERENT THAN SAM, DIFFERENT THAN ANYBODY ELSE.
SO THEN YOU CANNOT DEFINE IT EXACTLY APPROPRIATELY.
BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA DEFINE MINIMUM LEVEL OF HEALTH AND SAFETY, IT'S ALREADY IN THE BOOK AND IT TELLS YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED TO DO WHEN YOU NEED TO DO IT.
SO, QUESTION, UM, WE WOULD REMOVE REASONABLE LEVEL OR REASONABLE FROM THE, THE STATEMENT, UH, WHERE IT SAYS, UH, PROVIDE A REASONABLE LEVEL OF HEALTH, SAFETY, PROPERTY PROTECTION, ET CETERA.
AND WE WOULD ALSO REMOVE, UH, DOWN ON THE SECOND SENTENCE, A REASONABLE MINIMUM LEVEL OF HEALTH, OR ACTUALLY JUST A REASONABLE AND KEEP MINIMUM LEVEL.
UM, THE REASON, UM, I RAISED THE ISSUE WAS THAT IT IS VAGUE, UH, AND THE PREVIOUS, UM, 2018 S A P M C, UH, INDICATED THAT THEY WOULD ENSURE THAT THE PURPOSE OF THE SCOPE WOULD ENSURE A, UM, WHAT IS IT CALLED? UH, ENSURE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE.
THAT IT WOULD ENSURE, UH, THAT IS NOT VAGUE AT ALL.
THAT IS JUST ENSURING NOW WHETHER, WHETHER WE WANNA SAY A MINIMUM OR A REASONABLE LEVEL, THAT'S A, A DIFFERENT MATTER, BUT ENSURING THAT THERE IS A PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, I AGREE WITH THAT.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? SO LET'S MOVE ON TO NUMBER 11.
UM, THE REASON WE TABLED DECAL WAS MY UNDERSTANDING DANNY WAS FOR WHAT PART OF IT? OH, IT'S A NEW, OKAY.
MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, UH, DANNY LEGAS, CODE ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATOR.
AND I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO RECAP FOR THOSE THAT ARE LISTENING IN FOR THE FIRST TIME, AGAIN, JUST REMINDER, THIS IS BEING STREAMED LIVE.
SO, UM, SO DURING OUR LAST MEETING, UM, WE DID DISCUSS ITEMS ONE THROUGH 11.
THERE WERE TWO ITEMS THAT WERE TABLED.
UH, ITEMS TWO AND ITEMS NUMBER 11.
WE DO HAVE 24 ITEMS FOR REVIEW.
AND SO I JUST WANNA REMIND, UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE ARE HERE TILL FOUR O'CLOCK, AND SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE SET US UP ENOUGH TIME TO FINISH THE REVIEW, THE OTHER 24 ITEMS, OR RATHER THE REMAINING, UH, ITEMS. BUT NUMBER 11, UH, ITEMS WAS, WAS TABLED BECAUSE I THINK THERE WAS, UM, A QUESTION ON WHETHER WE WANTED TO AMEND OR ADD, UH, IN THE EXISTING SS A P M C, THE LANGUAGE, UM, THAT'S SPELLED OUT AT NUMBER FIVE HERE, UM, THE RIGHT TO APPEAL, RIGHT? I THINK WE ALL AGREE THAT IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED.
THERE SHOULD BE A RIGHT TO APPEAL.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, I THINK THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS, OR RATHER, UM, OTHER CONCERNS OR COMMENTS IN REGARDING THE FORM OR THE NOTICE ITSELF, UH, WHICH WAS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION AT THE LAST MEETING.
SO, UM, I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, MR. ANDES, ABOUT THE, THE REASON IT WAS TABLED, IT WASN'T, UH, THIS IS FRED ANDES.
UM, I THOUGHT NUMBER SIX WAS THE ISSUE ON THE 2021.
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I THINK THERE WERE SEVERAL ISSUES.I THOUGHT NUMBER SIX WAS AN ISSUE WITH THAT, THE STATEMENT TO THE RIGHT TO FILE A LIEN.
UM, IF I RECALL LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED LIENS ARE NOT FILED UNDER SS A P M C, THEY'RE FILED UNDER CHAPTER 14 AND CHAPTER SIX.
UH, THOSE PROVISIONS ARE ALREADY SPELLED OUT IN THE CURRENT CITY CODE.
UH, THAT GIVES THE CITY AUTHORITY TO FILE LIENS FOR ANY ABATEMENTS THAT, UM, WE COMPLETE.
SO WHAT WE TALKING ABOUT DROPPING ITEM SIX ON THAT, OR, BECAUSE IF IT'S PICKED UP SOMEWHERE ELSE, CORRECT, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE PICKED UP IN THIS, IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE SPELLED OUT ON THE S A P M C.
I A LINE, UH, NUMBER SIX, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S, THAT'S OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.
SERVIA THAT'S YOUR RECOMMENDATION.
I CAN CERTAINLY MAKE THAT NOTE.
WELL, I, IF, IF IT'S ALREADY ADDRESSED IN CHAPTER 14, I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IN THIS PARTICULAR PART BECAUSE IT ADDRESSES IT IN CHAPTER 14.
WHY DID THIS GET, THAT'S A QUESTION I GUESS ANYBODY CAN ANSWER.
WHY WAS THIS ACTUALLY PUT BACK OR ACTUALLY PUT INTO IT? SO THIS IS AGAINST, THIS IS, THIS IS EMIN THOMAS'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
SO AS DANNY SAID, UH, I THINK WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS LAST TIME, WE TALKED ABOUT ITEM FIVE TO BE ADDED, ITEM SIX, UH, TO BE REMOVED.
UH, AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS WHY DID THEY ADD IT? BECAUSE THIS CODE IS INTERNATIONAL CODE.
SOME JURISDICTIONS DON'T HAVE, LIKE OUR CITY CHAPTER 14 OR OR CHAPTER SIX, WHERE IT DEFINES, UH, WHERE YOU CAN PUT LIENS.
SOME JURISDICTIONS ARE SMALL AND THEY FOLLOW THIS CODE, AND THAT'S THE WAY FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO PUT CLEANS ON PROPERTIES.
SO WITH US, WE TALKED ABOUT IT, AND I THINK THE RECOMMENDATION AT THAT TIME WAS TO REMOVE THAT.
BUT THE WHOLE REASON WHY WE TABLED THIS ITEM WAS, UH, THE DISCUSSION ABOUT HAVING WRITTEN NOTICES IN DIFFERENT THAN ENGLISH, DIFFERENT LANGUAGES TO ACCOMMODATE, UH, OTHER CITIZENS WHO DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH, OR I THINK ONE OF THE LANGUAGES WAS MANDARIN OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO THAT'S WHY WE TABLED THIS ITEM.
AND I KNOW LEGALS DID SOME RESEARCH, AND I THINK THEY'RE GONNA PROVIDE THEIR, THEIR FEEDBACK, RIGHT? SO IN TEXAS, GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS, GOVERNMENT NOTICES ARE IN ENGLISH.
UM, CERTAINLY WE CAN ALWAYS PROVIDE EXTRA SERVICES, YOU KNOW, BEYOND THAT.
BUT I WILL SAY THIS, THAT AS FAR AS LEGAL PROOF AND DOCUMENTATION THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE IN THE COURTROOM, THE IMPORTANT DOCUMENT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE ONE THAT IS IN ENGLISH, BECAUSE THAT IS THE OFFICIAL NOTICE.
IF WE GET DOCUMENTS IN OTHER LANGUAGES THAT ARE SUBSTITUTED FOR, IN OTHER WORDS, NOT IN ADDITION TO, BUT SUBSTITUTED FOUR, THEN WE FALL INTO SOME POTENTIAL LEGAL DIFFICULTIES.
NUMBER ONE, OF COURSE, WE FALL AFOUL OF THE STATE LAW.
NUMBER TWO, WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE AN OFFICIAL TRANSLATION FROM A COURTROOM TRANSLATOR WHO CAN THEREFORE VERIFY THAT THE LANGUAGE IS PRECISE AND EXACT AND SUFFICIENT, RIGHT? SO IT IT, IT DOES CREATE SOME LEGAL AMBIGUITIES AND DIFFICULTIES.
UM, SO AGAIN, FOR THE OFFICIAL NOTICE, THE STATE OF TEXAS HAS ENGLISH AS BEING THE LANGUAGE THAT WE DO.
SO, UM, BUT CERTAINLY AGAIN, AS, AS THE CITY, AS WE CAN SUPPLEMENT THAT IF WE SO DESIRE.
BUT AGAIN, THE, THE OTHER ISSUE, WHICH IS NOT REALLY A LEGAL ISSUE, UM, IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY DIFFERENT LANGUAGES, THE OFFICIAL TRANSLATION IS AN EXACT COPY.
AND IF THERE IS ANY DISCREPANCY IN A COURTROOM SETTING, THEN OF COURSE WE, THAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR CASES, RIGHT? SO IF THERE IS ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MANDARIN OR THE SPANISH VERSION VERSUS THE ENGLISH VERSION, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S ANYTHING SUBSTANTIVE THAT COULD PROVE TO BE FATAL, THERE'S RAY MORALES.
THE, THE DISCUSSION WAS, UH, CAN WE PROVIDE, UH, ADDITIONAL SERVICES? AND, AND YOU JUST STATED THAT CITY DOES PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SERVICES.
SO INSTEAD OF PROVIDING IT ON THE FORM, CAN WE JUST, UH, PROVIDE A STATEMENT THAT SER ADDITIONAL SERVICES, INTERPRETATION SERVICES CAN BE PROVIDED.
UH, AND IF YOU CALL THIS NUMBER OR CONTACT THIS, UH, DEPARTMENT, UH, THEY, THE SERVICES WILL BE PROVIDED, UH, TRANSLATION SERVICES.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LANGUAGE NEEDS TO BE, BUT IT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT IS, UH, A LITTLE BIT FRIENDLIER FOR THE
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FORM, UH, ON THE FORM WOULD BE HELPFUL.ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I HAD ON, ON THIS, UH, ITEM NUMBER 11, UH, ON THE FORM ITSELF IS THAT, UM, NUMBER FOUR ON THE, UH, 11 1, 11 0.4 0.1, WHICH IS THE, UH, THE SUGGESTED, UH, I P M C, UH, LANGUAGE IS THAT, UH, NUMBER FOUR SAYS, INCLUDE A CORRECTION ORDER, ALLOWING A REASONABLE TIME TO MAKE THE REPAIRS AND IMPROVEMENTS.
AND, UM, I THINK DANNY MENTIONED THAT THE LAST MEETING THAT, UH, REASONABLE TIME HAD BEEN DEFINED AS 10 DAYS.
AND THE QUESTION CAME UP, UH, AS TO ARE THESE 10 CALENDAR DAYS OR 10 BUSINESS DAYS? UH, AND, UH, I BELIEVE, UH, PREVIOUS COUNSEL MENTIONED THAT IT WAS JUST 10 DAYS, IT WAS REQUIRED BY THE STATE.
UM, BUT WHEN, WHEN SOMEBODY GETS A NOTICE, UH, TO VACATE OR NOTICE TO, UH, CORRECT SOMETHING, UH, 10 DAYS IS, IS, DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME.
UM, I KNOW OTHER MUNICIPALITIES HAVE LONGER TIME, UH, FRAMES.
SO IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, UH, PROVIDE A, A, A BETTER REASONABLE TIME, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE 30, 90 DAYS, UH, SO THAT, UM, THE, UM, I GUESS THE OWNER OR THE RESIDENT, UH, CAN, CAN RESPOND TO IT BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE AN ORDER TO VACATE, THEY'RE GONNA START VACATING THE PREMISES.
THEY'RE GONNA BE BUSY WITH THAT.
AND 10 DAYS IS NOT SUFFICIENT.
I MEAN, THAT'S, IF THEY'RE GIVEN THE ORDER ON THE FRIDAY, UH, THAT GIVES 'EM, UH, FIVE DAYS, FIVE BUSINESS DAYS AND MAYBE THE FOLLOWING WEEK ONE DAY.
SO, UH, CAN WE PROVIDE ADDITIONAL TIME ON THAT? SO, TO, TO ANSWER THE FIRST PART OF YOUR QUESTION, UH, YES, IT IS CALENDAR DAYS.
SO AS OPPOSED TO BUSINESS DAYS.
SO IT WOULD BE A DAY BY DAY BASIS.
UM, THE SECOND IS WHETHER WE CAN DEVIATE FROM THE 10 DAY, UH, REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME.
AND CERTAINLY THAT IS A POLICY DECISION THAT CAN BE MADE AND CAN BE DISCUSSED AND CAN HAPPEN.
SO THAT'S, THAT IS THAT, AGAIN, TYPICALLY, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S 10 DAYS.
UM, THE DIRECTOR AND THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OR DEPUTY DIRECTOR ALWAYS HAVE DISCRETION, AND SO DO THE SUPERVISORS TO EXTEND IT, RIGHT? BUT NOT TO CONTRACT IT.
UM, BUT YES, UH, THAT, THAT CAN BE DISCUSSED.
SO, UM, I GUESS THE DIRECTOR WOULD BE PROVIDING THAT POLICY CHANGE, UH, POSSIBLY.
THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES IN OUR CURRENT CODE, UH, THE 2018 PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE.
UM, IN CHAPTER TWO, THERE IS DEFINITIONS, THE DEFINITION OF REASONABLE TIME.
THE SECOND SENTENCE TALKS ABOUT THE CODE OFFICIAL MAY EXTEND THE TIMEFRAME FOR COMPLIANCE BASED ON SEVERITY AND NATURE OF THIS CONDITION AND THE REASONABLE AVAILABILITY OF MATERIAL, LABOR AND UTILITIES AND OTHER RELEVANT CIRCUMSTANCES.
SO IT'S ALREADY CODIFIED, IT'S IN THE CODE, AND WE DO APPLY THAT ALMOST EVERY DAY.
UH, THAT SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR TO ME.
UH, BUT WHEN, WHEN A AN OWNER, UH, GETS, UH, SUBMITTED AN ORDER, UH, THEY DON'T KNOW.
UH, AND, AND A LOT OF TIMES IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE, UH, FROM THE COURT OFFICIAL, UH, POINT, UH, WHETHER THEY TOLD THE, UH, THE OWNER, UH, HOW MUCH TIME THEY HAVE AND OR, YOU KNOW, UH, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO THE OWNER.
SO IF WE CAN CODIFY A, A, A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, UH, UH, AND THIS WAY, THE, THE, UH, THE OWNER, UH, CAN, UM, UH, BE AWARE OF THAT, UH, BECAUSE WHEN THEY'RE TOLD 10 DAYS, UH, AND MAYBE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE CO OFFICIAL CAN EXTEND THAT, THEN IT'S, IT'S VERY SUBJECTIVE.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF, DAVID GARZA.
UM, WHEN YOU'VE EXECUTED THESE ORDERS AND YOU'VE GIVEN FAMILIES 10 DAYS, HOW FREQUENTLY DO THEY, HAVE YOU HAD CASES WHERE THEY ASK YOU FOR MORE TIME? I WILL LET, I WILL LET DANNY OR JENNY ANSWER THAT THEY ARE MORE.
BUT IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE SEE FREQUENTLY? I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF THIS IS A, A, A, AN ISSUE OR, AND IF IT IS, HOW OFTEN THIS IS THE ISSUE THAT FAMILIES NEED MORE THAN 10 DAYS? YEAH, IT DOES HAPPEN, UM, VERY OFTEN WHERE THE TIME THE FAMILY DOES COME AND ASK FOR EXTENDED TIME.
NOW, GRANTED, UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT GO IN PLACE BEFORE WE VACATE SOMEBODY, RIGHT? WE OFFER THE RESOURCES FOR THEM, UH, TO FIND SOME KIND OF TRANSITION TO HOME OR SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S A TEMPORARY SHELTER OR EVEN A, UH, UH, A HOTEL.
UM, BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY DISPLACE SOMEBODY, UM, WITHOUT THOSE
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SERVICES BEING PROVIDED FIRST.AND THEN SECONDLY, MORE IMPORTANTLY, FINDING A PLACE TO GO, RIGHT? SO, UM, WHILE THAT NOTICE TO VACAY MAY READ THREE DAYS, 10 DAYS, WHATEVER TIMEFRAME IT'S SPELLED OUT, UM, THERE'S PROBABLY, I'D SAY MORE THAN 90 PLUS TIMES PERCENT TO GIVE, YOU KNOW, GIVE OR TAKE THAT THEY ASK FOR MORE TIME.
AND IT'S VERY RARELY THAT SOMEBODY VACATES.
NOW I CAN GIVE SOME EXAMPLES WHERE MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO'S, UM, OCCUPYING SOMETHING MAYBE ILLEGALLY, UM, MAYBE THERE'S A SQUATTER IN THERE.
UM, WHEN WE GO BACK AND CHECK, THEY'RE GONE, RIGHT? UH, BUT IF IT'S A FAMILY, CHANCES ARE THEY'RE GONNA ASK FOR MORE TIME AND WE WORK WITH THEM.
SO, UH, DISCRETION WITH CAUSE IS WHAT YOU EXERCISE.
AND SO HOW MANY, ON THE AVERAGE, HOW MANY ADDITIONAL DAYS DO YOU FIND YOURSELF GIVING FAMILIES? FIVE, THREE DAYS? I, I, I DON'T HAVE A, A A TRUE NUMBER IN FRONT OF ME.
UM, BUT I MEAN, I I, I'M NOT SURPRISED IF IT'S GONE MAYBE TWO WEEKS IN SOME CASES.
AND SO, UH, MAYBE OF LONGER THAN THAT, IN SOME INSTANCES, UH, MY COLLEAGUE, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, BUT I WONDER IF IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LET STAFF CONTINUE TO EXERCISE AS NEED BE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF LEGAL HAS ANYTHING TO ADD.
I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE.
YEAH, THE ONLY THING I WOULD ALSO ADD IS AS SPECIFIC TO NOTICES TO VACATE, THOSE ARE ISSUED WHEN THERE'S A UNDERLYING CONDITION THAT CREATES AN IMMEDIATE HAZARD AND DANGER.
SO CERTAINLY WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GET THEM OUT OF THAT SITUATION, OR AT LEAST HAVE THE SITUATION REMEDIED SOONER THAN LATER.
AND THAT, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S WHY THE 10 DAY PERIOD OF TIME, UH, COMES INTO PLAY.
AND SO ONE OF THE CREDIBILITY FACTORS THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IN COURT IS THAT IF WE GIVE THEM, SAY, 20 OR 30 DAYS, THEN THEY CAN COME BACK.
THE OTHER SIDE WOULD ARGUE, WELL, THAT'S NOT THAT MUCH OF AN IMMEDIATE DANGER, IS IT? BECAUSE IF IT TAKES, YOU KNOW, 20, 30 DAYS A MONTH OR WHATEVER.
SO THOSE, THOSE ARE ALSO FACTORS THAT WE LOOK AT AS WELL.
LET ME, LET ME ADD SOMETHING TO THIS.
WE'VE NEVER EVICTED ANYBODY FOR P M C S.
THIS IS YOUR MAINTENANCE CODE.
DILAPIDATED STRUCTURES IS WHERE YOU GET INTO, UM, THE REMOVAL OF ANYBODY FROM A PROPERTY, NOT P M C S.
SO, MR. ANDIS, IF I COULD ALSO CLARIFY, THIS IS JENNY RAMIREZ, AND I, I, I KNOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES, BUT I THINK THE ORIGINAL ISSUE WAS SIMPLY ABOUT ORIGINAL NOTICES, NOT EVEN ABOUT TECHNICALLY, EVEN THOUGH VACATE NOTICES DO APPLY AS WELL.
BUT TO CLARIFY ON YOUR POINT AS WELL, AND THE NOTICES DO APPLY IN THE SAME MANNER, EXTENSIONS ARE GRANTED, THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF THOSE NOTICES IS TO START THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE OFFICER AND THE CITIZEN.
SO THE MATTER THAT THEY'RE CALLING AND ASKING FOR TIME IS A PERFECT SCENARIO OF WHAT WE WANNA SEE TO PREVENT ANY FURTHER ESCALATION TO START THAT COMMUNICATION AND CLARIFICATION OF, THIS IS WHAT I WANNA DO, AND THIS IS HOW THAT'S GOING TO TAKE ME.
OR, I'M WAITING FOR PARTS, OR I NEED THIS TIME TO DO THAT.
SO WHEN THOSE COMMUNICATION EFFORTS ARE MADE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE PER SE, UM, THAT DEFINITELY VALIDATES WHY WE WOULD GIVE THAT AS THAT EXTENSION OR NOT.
IF THERE'S NO COMMUNICATION, WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING TO VERIFY OR VALIDATE WHY THAT EXTENSION WOULD AUTOMATICALLY NEED TO BE DONE.
BUT DEFINITELY THAT'S WHERE THE, THE INTERPRETATION AND THE COMMUNICATION IS VERY CRUCIAL ON THE PART.
REFERRING TO THE NOTICES, UH, MR. ANDIS IN, IN YOUR REFERENCE ABOUT SS A P M C AND THE BOOK THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY, WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS RIGHT NOW, UM, THERE ARE SOME INSTANCES THAT VACATE NOTICES ARE REQUIRED BECAUSE OF THE ELECTRICAL, OR LACK THEREOF, OR PLUMBING OR LACK THEREOF, SEWAGE BREAKS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
THOSE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE ITEMS DO FALL INTO THIS, UH, PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE.
SO THEY'RE FURTHER ALONG IN THE CHAPTER, RIGHT? BUT THEY ARE STILL IN THERE.
SO THE STRUCTURAL PART MAY NOT BE PART OF THIS, BUT THE OTHER COMPONENTS, MECHANICAL, ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING, WATER, OR LACK THEREOF WOULD BE, UH, FALLING INTO THIS.
BUT, UH, I'M GONNA STOP EVERYONE FOR A SECOND.
WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, AND I'D REALLY LIKE TO HEAR FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS.
UM, DAN, WE HAVE IDENTIFY YOUR STATE.
CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS? MARK ROSS PO BOX 2 8 4 9 0, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 2 8.
UH, I AM HERE REPRESENTING THE SAN ANTONIO APARTMENT ASSOCIATION AND SERVED ON THE ORIGINAL TASK FORCE THAT PUT THE CODE TOGETHER.
UH, ONE COMMENT I'D LIKE TO MAKE IS THE INDUSTRY LIKES WHAT'S THERE.
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VERY REASONABLE.ANYTIME AN OWNER GETS CITED, AND I'LL GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES.
ONE WAS IN THE FREEZE WHERE THEY ISSUED, YOU KNOW, A, A NOTICE.
BUT BECAUSE OF UNAVAILABILITY OF LABOR AND MATERIAL AND EVERYBODY TRYING TO DO ALL THE REPAIRS AT THE SAME TIME, THE CITY HAS BEEN VERY, VERY REASONABLE IN EXTENDING THE TIME PERIOD AS LONG AS THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY HAS MADE AN EFFORT TO REMEDY IT.
WHEN OWNERS CHOOSE NOT TO REMEDY IT OR IGNORE IT, THEN THE CITATION GETS ISSUED.
BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR TRADE GROUP AND REPRESENT, AND I'M ALSO A REALTOR, BUT I'M NOT HERE SPEAKING ON THEIR BEHALF.
THE CITY AND THE COENEN ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS ARE ALWAYS VERY REASONABLE.
THEY GIVE YOU TIME AS LONG AS YOU EXPLAIN, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THERE.
AND YOU KNOW, TODAY WITH SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES AND STUFF LIKE THAT WHERE YOU MAY BE WAITING ON A PART FOR A MONTH, AS LONG AS YOU PROVIDE THEM WITH THE DOCUMENTATION, THEY HAVE RE BEEN VERY REASONABLE.
SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU NOT MAKE ANY CHANGES OR EXTEND IT, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT BAD ACTORS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE 30 OR 90 DAYS NOT TO ADDRESS SOMETHING.
AND, AND THE CITY HAS BEEN VERY REASONABLE IN ALLOWING FOR TIME WHEN TIME IS APPROPRIATE.
CAN YOU PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS? HELLO, MY NAME IS IRMA HOFFMAN, AND I LIVE AT 30 11 WHITETAIL DRIVE.
UH, BORN AND RAISED IN SAN ANTONIO.
UM, THE, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THE 10 DAY, UH, POLICY IS NOT SET IN STONE, APPARENTLY.
IT'S, UH, SOMETHING THAT THE CITY ITSELF DOES.
UH, AND DOING A LITTLE HOMEWORK.
I I BELIEVE THAT EVEN AUSTIN, HOUSTON AND DALLAS HAVE A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME, UH, I THINK, UH, MAYBE EVEN 30 DAYS.
AND, AND I WONDER HOW THAT CORRELATES TO THE HIGH RATE OF DEMOLITION THAT SAN ANTONIO HAS COMPARED TO HOUSTON AND DALLAS AND AUSTIN, UH, UH, HISTORICALLY, UM, I KNOW IN HAVING BEEN A COMMUNITY NURSE FOR 35 YEARS AND SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE THROUGHOUT SAN ANTONIO, UM, THOSE THAT HAD CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, VIOLATIONS, UH, AT TIMES DID NOT, WERE NOT ABLE TO CONTACT THE CODE OF COMPLIANCE OFFICER OR, UM, WERE AFRAID TO, UM, OR, UH, JUST FELT THE 10 DAYS WAS LIKE, WELL, WE BETTER GET OUTTA HERE 'CAUSE UH, THEY'RE GONNA ARREST US, UH, PEOPLE THAT ARE AFRAID AND THEY DON'T GET ENOUGH INFORMATION.
SO, UM, WOULD IT, UH, PRACTICALLY BE CONSIDERED AT LEAST TIME TO GIVE PEOPLE, UH, A CHANCE TO GET THEIR LIVES TOGETHER? WHETHER THEY HAVE CHILDREN, WHETHER THEY HAVE ELDERLY PARENTS, UH, WHETHER THEY'RE OUT OF A JOB.
I MEAN, THE, THE SITUATIONS GO ON AND ON.
SO IF IT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO BE CONSIDERED IN ORDER TO GIVE THE PEOPLE A SAN ANTONIO SOME TIME, UH, AS LONG AS WE ALSO HAVE CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICERS THAT COMMUNICATE WELL, THAT THEY COMMUNICATE RESPECTFULLY, AND THAT THEY GIVE THE, UH, RESIDENTS THE INFORMATION THAT'S NEEDED, UH, IN AND MAYBE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE, THE PEOPLE ARE NOT GIVEN THAT INFORMATION.
THEY ARE GIVEN THE NOTE, IT'S PLACED ON THEIR DOOR.
UH, AND, UH, IF THEY'RE NOT THERE, AND THEN, UH, THEY TRY TO CONTACT THE CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICERS WHO ARE VERY BUSY.
SO, UM, ALSO TO PLEASE CONSIDER THE PRACTICALITY OF THIS FAST-PACED LIFE AND THE, THE HIGH RATE OF DEMOLITION HISTORICALLY THAT SAN ANTONIO HAS HAD IN COMPARISON TO OTHER PLACES.
UM, WE REALLY APPRECIATE WHEN THE PUBLIC COMES.
SO THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING TO SPEAK.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM? ONE MORE THING? OH, YES SIR.
UH, ONE REASON I BELIEVE WE PICKED THE 10 DAY WHEN WE DID IT ORIGINALLY IS THAT MATCHES THE 10 DAY REQUIREMENT AND THE HABITABILITY STATUTE IN THE
[00:35:01]
PROPERTY CODE.AND SO THAT IS, AND SOMEBODY'S GONNA, SOME LAWYERS ARE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK IT UP 'CAUSE I CAN'T SEE IT ON MY PHONE, BUT I THINK IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, UNDER THE PROPERTY CODE FOR RENTAL PROPERTY, ONCE NOTICE IS RECEIVED FROM A RESIDENT OF A PROBLEM, THE OWNER HAS 10 DAYS TO DO IT.
AND THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT, YOU KNOW, REASONABLE MATERIAL AND LABOR AND ALL THAT IS IN THE PROPERTY CODE ALSO.
AND AGAIN, MY SUGGESTION IS, IS IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THOSE TO MATCH SO THAT THERE'S NOT TWO DIFFERENT STANDARDS.
AND SO I BELIEVE IF SOME, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN REPORT BACK, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IT'S 10 DAYS IN THE PROPERTY CODE.
IT'S EITHER SEVEN OR 10 DAYS AND IT SHOULD MATCH, UM, LEGAL.
CAN YOU, WE, WE WILL LOOK INTO THAT.
I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT.
UH, I, I'D LIKE TO COMMENT ON, ON THAT IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.
UH, I THINK COMPARING, UH, PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO PURCHASE HOME AND RENT THEM OUT WITH OWNERS THAT, UH, ARE, UH, PERHAPS NOT HAVING THE SAME MEANS TO, UH, UPDATE THEIR PROPERTIES BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT, UM, THEY DON'T OWN MULTIPLE PROPERTIES OR THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T PERCEIVE INCOME FROM RENTING.
UH, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, UH, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE OWNERS, UH, MAY CHOOSE NOT TO, UH, ACT ON UPON RECEIVING A, AN NOTICE OF CODE VIOLATION, BUT SOME OTHER OTHERS MAY NOT HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MEANS NECESSARY TO DO SO.
SO TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION, I THINK IS NOT A WISE TO COMPARE, UH, OWNERS THAT RENT THEIR PROPERTIES AND PERCEIVE INCOME FOR THAT AND HAVE HIGHER MEANS NECESSARY TO DO THEIR REPAIRS WITH OWNERS THAT MAY NOT HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO SO BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO DO SO.
LET ME JUST, LET ME JUST SAY, AS A FORMER PROPERTY OWNER, WHEN YOU HAVE TENANTS THAT ARE BEHIND IN THEIR RENT AND THEY HAVE DAMAGED YOUR PROPERTY, THE OWNER, I BELIEVE GIVES THREE DAY NOTICE.
THEN YOU GO TO COURT AND NO TELLING WHEN THE COURT DATE WILL WILL HAPPEN.
AND ALL OF THIS TIME IS BUILDING.
AND WHEN YOU GET TO COURT, YOU KNOW, THE COURT IS GONNA GIVE THEM, UH, ADDITIONAL FIVE DAYS TO GET OUT.
AND YOU HAVE THE 10 DAYS IS WHEN THE OWNER SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU, AFTER THEY GIVE THE THREE DAY NOTICE, THEY GIVE THEM 10 DAYS TO GET OUT, THEN YOU GO TO COURT.
AND LIKE I SAID, YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THE COURT DATE IS GONNA BE.
SO THEY HAVE ALL OF THIS TIME IN BETWEEN TO VACATE THE PROPERTY, AND THEN THEY WANNA ASK FOR MORE TIME.
AND THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY IS LOSING MORE AND MORE MONEY BECAUSE WHEN THEY GO TO COURT, YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR COURT COSTS, YOUR COURT FEES AND ALL THAT.
SO, NO, I DON'T THINK, I THINK 10 DAYS IS REASONABLE.
IN FACT, YOU KNOW, AND, UH, PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO, HOW TO PLAY THE SYSTEM.
THEY REALLY KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE SYSTEM AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO ASK FOR MORE AND MORE TIME.
SO WE'VE, WE'VE HAD CASES RIGHT IN HERE WHERE PEOPLE WILL SAY, COULD WE HAVE SIX MONTHS? NO, NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE SIX MONTHS.
SO WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT'S REASONABLE FOR THEM IS THAT THEY WANNA STAY LONGER.
WHAT'S REASONABLE FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE PERSON THAT'S, UH, IS EVICTING THE, THE TENANT IS NOT SIX MONTHS, IT'S MORE LIKE 10 DAYS.
SO, ALRIGHT, THIS IS FRED ANDIS AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE LOSING THE TOPIC.
THE 10 DAYS IS NOT TO EVICT THE 10 DAYS.
UNDER THE PROPERTY CODE, IF A PROPERTY IS CITED FOR HIGH GRASS, YOU GET THE NOTICE FOR 10 DAYS TO CORRECT THAT ISSUE.
EVICTION'S NOT EVEN IN THAT PART.
IF WE ONLY DEAL WITH EVICTIONS, IF IT'S TURNS INTO, THEN IT GOES INTO WHAT'S KNOWN AS DILAPIDATED STRUCTURE OR A DANGEROUS PREMISE, THAT'S WHEN WE DO THE, UM, UM, I'M NOT GONNA SAY EVICTION 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE DO.
WHEN WE DO A VACATE ORDER, IT'S ONLY BECAUSE IT'S A LIFE AND SAFETY ISSUE.
IT MAY START OUT AS A P M C S, BUT THAT'S WAY DOWN THE ROAD.
THIS IS DEALING WITH FUNDAMENTAL
[00:40:01]
GRASS ISSUES, PAINT, CHIPS, UM, TREE PROBLEMS, STUFF LIKE THAT, FENCE PROBLEMS. AND YOU HAVE 10 DAYS TO CORRECT THE ISSUE BEFORE THE CODE OFFICER COMES OUT.I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE MISSING HERE.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEMOLITION OR THE VACATE PROCESS.
OKAY? THIS IS ONLY THE 10 DAYS IS FOR IT TO CORRECT YOUR MINOR ISSUES.
IF IT GOES INTO MORE THAN A MINOR ISSUE, THEN THAT'S HANDLED ON A STAFF LEVEL BEFORE IT GETS TO THE BOARD.
SO I THINK WE'RE KIND OF GETTING VACATE AND 10 DAY RULE MESSED UP.
DOES THAT HELP YOU OUT? THAT HELPS ME OUT.
UH, MY QUESTION IS, UM, THAT THESE ARE NOTICES, RIGHT? WHETHER THEY APPLY TO EVICTION OR TO CORRECTION, UH, OF, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, UNLAWFUL THINGS IN YOUR PROPERTY, UM, UH, TO PROVIDE A REASONABLE TIME.
UH, I HAVEN'T SEEN THE ACTUAL FORM OR THE NOTICE, THE PHYSICAL, UH, NOTICE, UH, TO DETERMINE WHETHER, UH, IT SPELLS OUT 10 DAYS.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU TELL ME, DANNY, WHETHER IT SPELLS, UH, IT STATES THE 10 DAYS, UH, CORRECTION TIME, OR, OR, YES, I CAN.
SO THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION, WHICH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? NOT A NOTICE TO VACATE, BUT A NOTICE OF VIOLATION, WHICH ARE NOT ONE OF THE SAME.
UH, THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION DOES SPELL OUT THE NUMBER OF DAYS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE ADDITIONALLY WITH A REINSPECTION DATE.
AND, AND LET ME JUST GIVE YOU SOME, SOME CONTEXT OF JUST FROM, UH, FROM THE OPERATION SIDE OF IT.
SO WHILE THE NOTICE MAY READ 10 DAYS, WE ACCOUNT FOR THE DELIVERY AS WELL, RIGHT? SO FOR THE MAIL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE TYPICALLY BUILD IN SOME ADDITIONAL TIME FOR THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION TO BE RECEIVED ON, ON, ON THE PROPERTY OWNER'S END, OR THE TENANT'S END RATHER, OR WHOEVER OCCUPYING THE PLACE, RIGHT? SO THAT 10 DAYS COULD BE 14 DAYS, COULD BE 15 DAYS, RIGHT? BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY 10 DAYS TO THE T, RIGHT? AND, AND AGAIN, I THINK IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, THERE IS THAT TIME WHERE, UH, IF A PROPERTY OWNER OR SOMEBODY MAKES CONTACT WITH THE OFFICER AND SAYS, HEY, I NEED MORE TIME FOR X, Y, AND Z, THEN THE COURT OFFICER WILL WORK WITH THEM.
THEY'LL GRANT THEM AN EXTENSION FOR ADDITIONAL TIME.
THIS IS JUST TO GET THAT INITIAL NOTICE SAYING, WE'VE IDENTIFIED A VIOLATION.
IT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED WITHIN THIS TIME PERIOD.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE, I GUESS THE, THE PURPOSE OF THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION IS, IS SERVED AT THIS POINT.
BUT JUST TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, IT DOES SPELL IT OUT.
DOES THE NOTICE EX EXPLAIN THAT THE, THE, THE OWNER COULD ASK FOR MORE TIME IF HE MAKES A CONTACT OR SHE MAKES A CONTACT WITH THE, WITH THE OFFICE? CORRECT.
SO THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION ON THE VERY BOTTOM HAS, UM, A, A A, I GUESS A RETURN RECEIPT, IF YOU WILL.
IT'S A PORTION WHERE THEY CAN CUT OUT, UH, AND TELL US WHETHER THEY'VE COMPLIED, UH, WHETHER THEY NEED MORE TIME OR THEY WANT TO APPEAL THE NOTICE TO THE B S B TO SAY, I DON'T THINK A VIOLATION EXISTS.
SO IT DOES SPELL OUT ALL THOSE OPTIONS FOR THEM ON THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
UH, DANNY, UH, YOU, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE NOTICE DOES, UH, HAVE A, UH, I GUESS A TAB THAT YOU CAN TEAR OUT OR MAIL BACK WITH A RIGHT TO APPEAL.
UH, DOES THAT RIGHT TO APPEAL, UH, SPECIFY HOW AND WHERE THEY CAN APPEAL TO? IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I LOOKED AT THE NOTICE PER SE, BUT IT DOES SPELL OUT THE RIGHT TO APPEAL AND IT GIVES A TIME PERIOD, UM, FOR THE APPEAL TO BE SUBMITTED.
NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS ONCE WE GET THAT INFORMATION BACK, OUR B S B LIAISON, WHETHER IT'S ESTHER OR JUDY, WILL MAKE CONTACT WITH THAT PROPERTY OWNER OR THAT TENANT, UH, AND EXPLAIN THAT PROCESS TO THEM.
SO IF WE CAN, UH, GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM.
UM, I BELIEVE THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS WE'LL GET BACK ON.
SO JUST FOR MY RECORD, JUST SO I KNOW, SO THIS ITEM, WE'RE STILL GONNA CONTINUE TO TABLE IT OR, OKAY.
SO ITEM 11 WILL STILL CONTINUE TO BE TABLED FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION.
CAN YOU PUT THE NEXT ONE? OKAY.
SO THE NEXT ITEM, ITEM NUMBER 12, UH, AGAIN, WE'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE METHOD OF, OR RATHER, THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION AND THE METHOD OF SERVICE.
I MEAN, HOW DO WE DELIVER THAT NOTICE OF VIOLATION TO THE PROPERTY OWNER? OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO KEEP OUR SS A P M C AS WRITTEN.
[00:45:01]
AS YOU CAN SEE, UM, IN OUR CURRENT SS A P M C, UM, NOTICE IS SERVED IN SEVERAL, THREE DIFFERENT WAYS.UH, IT'S SERVED, UH, IN PERSON, RIGHT? SO IF WE GET OUT THERE, THERE'S SOMEBODY IN LOCATION, WE'LL GIVE THEM A HANDWRITTEN NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
UM, WE CAN CONCERNED BY CERTIFIED MAIL WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, POST, UH, PREPAID AND WITH RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED, OR WE CAN SEND IT BY FIRST CLASS MAIL, AND IT'S SENT TO THE OWNER OF RECORD THAT'S LAST RECORDED ON THE BEXAR COUNTY APPRAISAL.
UM, THE 2021 I P M C, UH, KIND OF SPELL OUT THE SAME DELIVERY METHODS, HOWEVER, OURS IS MORE SPECIFIC TO, UH, SAN ANTONIO IN REGARDS TO SPECIFICALLY THAT MAILS OUT OR SPELLS OUT RATHER, UH, BEXAR COUNTY.
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD TO KEEP THE S A P M C AS WRITTEN.
DID YOU SAY THAT YOU DO ALL THREE? WE CAN DO ONE OF THREE, CORRECT? UH, AND SOMETIMES WE MAY DO MORE THAN ONE.
SO WE MAY DELIVER A NOTICE IN PERSON, BUT ALSO MAIL ONE IN THE MAIL AS WELL.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THIS? UH, YES.
UH, IS THE ORDER THAT APPEARS, UH, THE ORDER THAT YOU FOLLOW TO, TO, TO DO IT, LIKE, DO, DO YOU FIRST TRY, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, NUMBER ONE, DELIVER PERSONALLY, IS THAT THE FIRST METHOD OF OR THE PRIORITY METHOD TO DO IT FIRST? YES.
YEAH, THAT'S GONNA BE THE FIRST METHOD BECAUSE OUR INITIAL INSPECTION WOULD BE ON LOCATION.
IF WE MAKE CONTACT, WE WANNA SERVE NOTICE THERE SO WE CAN EXPLAIN TO THEM IN DETAIL WHAT THE PURPOSE OF THE NOTICE IS, HOW MUCH TIME THEY HAVE TO COMPLY.
SO THAT'S OUR FIRST PREFERRED METHOD.
W WOULDN'T A, A MORE SECURE, MORE DEFINITE WAY OF CONTACTING THE OWNER OR THE, UH, PROPERTY, UH, MANAGER, UH, BE MORE SECURE IF IT WAS A REGISTERED MALE.
UH, I CAN UNDERSTAND IF, IF THE INSPECTOR OR THE CODE OFFICIALS THERE AND, AND THEY MAKE CONTACT WITH THE OWNER OR THE RESIDENT, UH, BUT A LOT OF TIMES BEING A PROPERTY OWNER AS WELL, UH, I DON'T GET THAT, UH, FROM A, UH, RENTER, UH, UH, SOMETIMES THOSE NOTICES GET LEFT ON THE TABLE AND, AND WHEN I VISIT OR, OR, UH, YOU KNOW, I TALK TO THE RENTER, I DON'T GET THOSE NOTICES.
SO, UH, WOULDN'T IT BE MORE PROPER AND MORE, UH, SECURE IF THAT FIRST METHOD, UH, OR AT LEAST IN CONJUNCTION WITH A PERSONAL, UM, UH, METHOD OF SERVICE.
IT, IT WAS ALSO, UH, AS REGISTERED MAIL? YES.
AND, AND JUST, SO LET ME JUST CLARIFY.
SO TO YOUR CASE, WELL, SO I'M USING THE EXAMPLE OF IT WAS A PROPERTY OWNED, RIGHT? SO IF YOU WERE A PROPERTY OWNER, I GO TO YOUR HOUSE AND I, YOU KNOW, I MADE CONTACT WITH YOU, THEN I WOULD SERVE YOU A NOTICE IN PERSON, HOWEVER IT'S TENANT OCCUPIED, THEN I MAY DELIVER A NOTICE IN PERSON TO YOU AS WELL.
ADDITIONALLY, MAIL A NOTICE OF VIOLATION TO THE PROPERTY OWNER 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A DIFFERENT RESIDING ADDRESS.
NOW MIND YOU, IT'S BASED ON WHAT'S RECORDED WITH THEIR APPRAISAL.
IF THE PROPERTY OWNER DOES NOT UPDATE THEIR MAILING INFORMATION OR THEIR MAILING ADDRESS, AND IT GOES BACK TO THAT LOCATION, THEN UNFORTUNATELY THE NOTICE WILL BE SENT TO THAT, THAT PROPERTY THAT'S ON FILE.
SO, AGAIN, TO ANSWER YOUR POINT, I THINK JUST YES, IF YOU'RE A TENANT, TENANT OCCUPIED NOTICE IN PERSON AND NOTICE OF MAIL TO THE PROPERTY OWNER, UM, BY MAIL AS WELL.
CAN, CAN WE RAISE THE MOTION TO SPECIFY THAT REGARDLESS OF THE CASE, UH, A CERTIFIED MAIL SHOULD BE THE PRIORITY.
AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IF THE PERSON IS PRESENT, DELIVER THE THE MESSAGE PERSONALLY.
BUT I THINK WHAT IS BEING SAID HERE IS THAT A SECURE WAY THAT MAKE SURE THAT EVERY PERSON WILL GET THE, THE NOTICE IS TO SEND EVERYBODY, REGARDLESS IF THE PERSON HAS BEEN RECEIVED OR NOT, UH, A, A A, A PERSONAL VISIT, UH, A CERTIFIED MAIL NOTICE.
UH, I BELIEVE WE DON'T HAVE QUORUM, SO WE CAN'T, CAN WE DO MOTIONS? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING AT THIS POINT, UM, AND THEN WE HAVE TO COME BACK WHEN WE HAVE QUORUM.
SO JUST SO I UNDERSTAND YOUR RECOMMENDATION, UM, IF IT'S A PROPERTY OWNED OR RATHER OWNER OCCUPIED PROPERTY, UM, IN ADDITION TO GIVING THE NOTICE IN PERSON, IF THEY'RE THERE, YOU WANT US TO MAIL A NOTICE OF VIOLATION TO THE CERTIFIED MAIL, IS THAT CORRECT? I WOULD, I WOULD SIMPLY SAY REGARDLESS OF WHO OWNS THE PROPERTY, WHO IS THERE, ALWAYS SEND A CERTIFIED MAIL ANYWAY, IF THERE'S A CODE VIOLATION OR, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT, OR THERE IS A RE REGISTRY FOR THE CITY ALSO TO SAY, YES, WE DID SEND YOU, HERE'S THE RECEIPT.
UH, AND, AND IT IS NOT US TARGETING YOU, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S JUST A MORE SECURE, CLEAN WAY THAT TO PROVE THAT EVERYBODY HAS RECEIVED A NOTICE, UH, TO FIRST ALWAYS SEND THEM BY A CERTIFIED MAIL.
EVEN IF THE PERSON IS THERE, EVEN IF HE GETS IN A FIGHT, IN IN PERSON, WE WILL,
[00:50:01]
YOU'LL BE RECEIVING THIS NOTICE ALSO BY CERTIFIED MAIL FOR, UH, UH, DAVID GARZA HERE.UM, I THINK WE DO THAT ALREADY.
YEAH, WE, WE, I FEEL LIKE WE ALREADY DO THAT ALREADY.
AND I FEEL LIKE THE FIRST SENTENCE ON THE METHOD OF SERVICE STATES THAT, UH, IT MAY NOT BE THE SAME WORDING MY COLLEAGUE, BUT I FEEL LIKE WE'RE ALREADY DOING THAT AND HELP ME UNDERSTAND IF I'M NOT NO, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
SO AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, OR RIGHT, SO IT'S ONE, OR, OR YOU KNOW, OR YOU CAN DO ALL THREE IF WE HAVE TO.
UH, MOST OF OUR NOTICES THAT DO GO OUT, THEY'RE GONNA GO OUT FIRST CLASS MAIL, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE, THERE, THERE IS A COST WITH, WITH CERTIFIED MAIL.
UM, AND, AND SO, BUT MOST OF OUR NOTICES, MATTER OF FACT, ALL OUR NOTICES PROBABLY DO GO OUT, UH, FIRST CLASS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A FEW NOTICES THAT, THAT DO GO OUT CERTIFIED.
UM, AND, AND FIRST CLASS MAIL IS GUARANTEED DELIVERY RIGHT? BY THE US POSTAL SERVICE.
SO THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT PROPERTY OWNER GOT THAT NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
AND, AND SO, UM, SO I THINK TO YOUR POINT, WE DO ALREADY DO THAT AS A POLICY.
THIS IS MORE SPELLING OUT THE DIFFERENT METHODS OF SERVICE THAT THAT WOULD ALLOW US, OR RATHER, UM, GUIDE US OR, OR, OR, YOU KNOW, UH, INTO, YOU KNOW, SERVING NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
SO WE'RE ASKING IS TO KEEP THE CURRENT P M C AS IS BECAUSE IT GIVES US THAT FLEXIBILITY TO DO ONE, TWO, OR ALL THREE IF, IF WE TO CHOOSE.
UM, MY COMMENT IS, UM, IF YOU ALREADY DO THAT, UM, PROVIDE CERTIFIED MAIL, UH, WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER, UH, TO GO AHEAD AND CODIFY IT AND SAY, LET'S DO THIS, THIS IS A, A POLICY.
UM, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT I, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE CITY TO COVER THEIR TRACKS AND AVOID LITIGATION.
UH, BECAUSE I, I THINK THERE'S NOTICES, THESE NOTICES ARE A VERY IMPORTANT, UH, EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE, UH, THE CITY AND THE PROPERTY OWNERS, AND THEY WOULD BEHOOVE THE CITY TO GO AHEAD AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE DOING THIS ALREADY.
UH, SO THAT, UH, UH, THERE'S NO QUESTION AS TO WHETHER THE NOTICES, UH, REACHED THE PROPERTY OWNER OR NOT.
UH, SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S ONE COMMENT.
AND THEN THE OTHER COMMENT, UH, WOULD BE, UM, BOTH THE, UH, 2018 AND THE 2000, UH, 2021 I P M C BOTH HAVE JUST AN ADDRESS ON THERE, UM, WHERE THE, UH, SERVICES ARE, ARE SENT TO AN ADDRESS.
UH, BUT SOMETIMES PO BOXES, THEY DON'T HAVE AN ADDRESS, THEY'RE JUST NUMBERS.
AND SO CAN WE PUT IN THERE, UM, UH, MAIL ADDRESS, UH, CAN WE INSERT MAIL, UH, RIGHT BEFORE ADDRESS? OKAY.
YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND, YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE RIGHT BETWEEN P PO BOXES AND, AND ADDRESSES.
ADDRESSES HAVE STREET NAMES AND, AND NUMBERS AND ALL THAT KINDA STUFF.
SO, UH, A PO BOXES DOES NOT HAVE AN ADDRESS ON IT.
SO TO YOUR FIRST POINT, UM, I WOULD DEFER TO LEGAL TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY ADDED BENEFIT TO SENDING SOMETHING CERTIFIED MAIL.
SO, UM, EACH ONE HAS ITS OWN ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES IN THE COURTROOM, AND THAT'S WHY WE DO, I HAVE THIS FLEXIBILITY.
IF IT'S A PERSONAL DELIVERY, THEN I HAVE A LIVE WITNESS WHO CAN TESTIFY.
I HANDED IT OVER TO SO AND SO.
IF IT'S CERTIFIED MAIL, THEN IF I GET THE GREEN CARD BACK, THEN I'VE GOT PROOF OF RECEIPT.
HOWEVER, THE TRIED AND TRUE METHOD IS BY FIRST CLASS MAIL, BECAUSE IN THAT WE HAVE WHAT'S CALLED THE MAILBOX RULE.
AND LEGALLY WHEN SOMETHING GETS SENT BY FIRST CLASS MAIL, THERE IS A LEGAL PRESUMPTION THAT IT WAS RECEIVED.
SO THERE'S NO ARGUMENT, THERE'S NO DISCUSSION IN A COURTROOM IN THAT INSTANCE.
WHEREAS WITH THE OTHER TWO, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE COULD BE SOME DISCUSSION OR THERE SHOULD, THERE COULD BE SOME CLAIMS, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT NEVER GOT TO ME OR IT DISAPPEARED OR WHATEVER.
AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY NO ONE OF THESE IS A SUREFIRE WAY, BUT THE COMBINATION OF THEM CERTAINLY DOES HELP US IN PROVING UP THAT WE HAVE PROVIDED NOTICE.
UH, COMMITTEE, IF I ALSO MAY, UH, READ FROM WHAT OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE STATES FOR CERTIFIED FIRST, UM, CERTIFIED MAILINGS, I'M SORRY, FIRST CLASS MAILING.
IF WE DO NOT, IF WE'RE NOT ABLE TO ISSUE A NOTICE IN PERSON, OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE DOES STATE THAT IT IS MAILED FIRST CLASS AND IT IS ALSO POSTED ON THE PROPERTY.
SO WE ACTUALLY DO PHYSICALLY PUT A COPY IN A POSTING, TYPICALLY EITHER ON THE FRONT DOOR OR ON A STAKE IN THE GROUND AT THE PROPERTY.
WE ALSO TAKE A PHOTO AND DOCUMENT THAT AS WELL TO SHOW THAT IT WAS PUT AT THE CORRECT PROPERTY AND WHERE IT WAS PUT IN PLACE.
SO IT IS, IT IS DEFINITELY IN OUR, IN OUR PAST
[00:55:01]
HISTORY, WE FOUND THAT TO ACTUALLY GET MORE, UM, COMMUNICATION EFFORTS STARTED THAN THE CERTIFIED LETTER, BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE DON'T SIGN FOR THE CERTIFIED LETTER, AND IF YOU DON'T SIGN FOR IT, YOU'LL NEVER GET IT.YOU JUST KEEP GETTING THE GREEN CARDS.
AND IF THEY, I THINK THEY ATTEMPT DELIVERY, I BELIEVE, TWO TO THREE TIMES, AND THAT DOESN'T OCCUR, IT GETS SENT BACK TO US AS UNCLAIMED.
SO NOT ONLY WERE WE INCURRING THE COST, BUT THOSE WERE NOT BEING SIGNED OR ACCEPTED, AND SO THEY NEVER RECEIVED THE LETTER THAT WAS, THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SENT.
'CAUSE WE, WE DID HAVE THAT A NUMBER OF, MANY, MANY YEARS AGO.
WE, WE CHANGED IT, UH, I BELIEVE IN THE LAST TWO REVISIONS TO DO THE CER, UH, THE FIRST CLASS AND THE POSTING.
UM, BUT, UM, UH, IF WE DO THAT ALREADY, UH, MY COMMENT IS CAN WE JUST REFLECT THAT LANGUAGE ON THIS, ON THIS, UH, SECTION, UH, THAT WE ALREADY DO THAT AND, AND, UH, JUST MODIFY IT.
MY MY MY BIG QUESTION IS, IS THE, THE, THE, THE WORD OR, BECAUSE IT GIVES US, UH, UH, TOO MUCH, UH, I GUESS, UH, FLEXIBILITY, ALTHOUGH I LIKE FLEXIBILITY, BUT HERE, IT, IT MAKES IT TOO VAGUE.
AND IF WE CAN JUST REFLECT THE LANGUAGE THAT WE ALREADY DO THIS, UH, UH, WHETHER IT'S, IT'S, UH, REGISTERED MAIL, FIRST CLASS MAIL, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
UH, WE JUST NEED TO COVER OUR TRACKS AS PART OF THE CITY.
THE ONLY THING I'LL ADD IS, IS LEGALLY WE ONLY NEED TO PROVIDE PROOF OF ONE SET OF NOTICES.
SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, ARGUABLY, IF THERE'S NO STATUTE THAT SAYS WE HAVE TO SEND BY, FIRST BY LET'S SAY CERTIFIED OR REGISTERED MAIL, THEN LEGALLY WE COULD SEND EVERYTHING BY FIRST CLASS MAIL AND EVERYBODY HAS NOTICE IT AND STOPS THE DISCUSSION AT THAT POINT.
UM, BUT AGAIN, BACK BACK TO THE POINT, EITHER ANY ONE OF THESE SINGLY AND INDIVIDUALLY WITH THE PROPER PROOF IN A COURTROOM IS SUFFICIENT AS A STANDALONE.
WHAT WHAT ABOUT THE COMMENT OF INSERTING MAIL ADDRESS ON THERE? UH, I DON'T, UH, THIS IS, I MEAN, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UM, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS IF WE GONNA SEND THE LETTER EITHER FIRST CLASS OR CERTIFIED, WE OBTAINED THE OWNER'S INFORMATION FROM B C AD BEXAR COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT.
A LOT OF THOSE ADDRESSES, IF IT'S AN INVESTMENT PROPERTY, THEY HAVE P O BOX.
SO IF I WANNA SAY SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS, AND I DON'T HAVE THE OWNER'S ADDRESS WHO LIVES IN CALIFORNIA OR EVEN LIVES HERE IN TOWN, AND THEY HAVE P O BOX ON THAT B AD, THEN I CANNOT MAIL ANYTHING.
SO WE HAVE TO JUST SEND IT TO THE INFORMATION WE HAVE ON B AD AS FAR AS THE OWNER NAME OR COMPANY OR WHATEVER.
AND THE ADDRESS LISTED THERE, IT COULD BE A P O BOX OR IT COULD BE A PHYSICAL ADDRESS.
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA MOVE FORWARD.
THIS IS, UH, THIS IS FRED ANDIS, ALSO THE POST OFFICE AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT RECOGNIZE A PO AS A PHYSICAL ADDRESS.
THAT'S WHY THE POST OFFICE DELIVERS TO POS BECAUSE IT IS CONSIDERED A PHYSICAL ADDRESS.
I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION VERY QUICK.
UH, IF THERE IS AN EMAIL ADDRESS IN THE VCA, UH, IS THERE A POSSIBILITY THAT THE, THE, THE, THE NOTICE, UH, UH, CAN BE SENT THROUGH EMAIL TO THE, THAT IS REGISTERED FOR THE OWNER? I WOULD, I WOULD SAY POTENTIALLY DOWN THE ROAD, BUT AS OF NOW, THERE IS NO EMAIL ADDRESSES LISTED ON VCA.
I, I WOULD LOVE TO SEND EMAILS INSTEAD OF SENDING LETTERS.
OKAY, LET'S MOVE FORWARD PLEASE.
OKAY, SO JUST FOR ITEM 12 AGAIN, ARE WE TABLING THAT ONE OR ARE WE GOOD WITH THE RECOMMENDATION? YEAH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TABLE EVERYTHING.
'CAUSE WE, WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T HAVE COURT.
WELL, I, I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY.
WE CAN DECIDE, BUT WE JUST CAN'T VOTE ON, UH, TAKE A MOTION ON ANYTHING.
SO WE CAN DECIDE WHETHER WE WANT TO ACCEPT THE CITY'S RECOMMENDATION OR TABLE FURTHER DISCUSSION.
IT'S HOW DO WE MAKE THAT DECISION WITHOUT MOVING NO, AT ALL.
IT WOULD, BUT I THINK WE'RE IN AGREEMENT.
WELL ALL OF THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE A VOTE AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
WE'RE GONNA TABLE, WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL DISCUSS 'EM AND THEN TABLE.
YES, THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT, TO BRING THEM BACK UP FOR NEXT ONE.
'CAUSE IF WE END THEM TODAY, WE CAN'T DISCUSS THEM AGAIN.
AND BY THE TIME WE DO GET, UH, A QUORUM AND DO VOTE ON THEM, WE'VE, WE'VE HAD ALL THE DISCUSSIONS, SO IT'S JUST GONNA BE A SIMPLE VOTE.
HOPEFULLY, LET'S KEEP MOVING ALONG THEN.
ALRIGHT, SO ITEM NUMBER 13, UM, IT'S A CITY'S RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP THE AMENDMENT AND UPDATE THE 2021 LANGUAGE.
UH, THERE'S ONE SIMPLE AMENDMENT, IF I CAN GET IT ON THE SCREEN.
UH, WE ARE CHANGING, OR RATHER THE 2021 I I P M C, UH, SCRATCHED OUT GENERAL AND ACTUALLY INSERTED UNSAFE CONDITIONS.
[01:00:01]
UPDATING IT TO 21.HOWEVER, WE WANNA KEEP OUR LANGUAGE BECAUSE AGAIN, 2021 I P M SPEAKS, UH, I P M C SPECIFICALLY SPEAKS TO CONDEMNATION OR CONDEMNING, UH, PURSUANT TO, AND OBVIOUSLY THE CODE ENFORCE DOES NOT CONDEMN PROPERTY.
SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP OUR LANGUAGE, UH, THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN IN 2018.
SO AGAIN, 2018, WE'LL READ 1 0 1, 1 0 8 0.1, UNSAFE CONDITIONS FOLLOWED BY WHEN EQUIPMENT IS FOUND AND SO FORTH AND SO FORTH.
SO WE'RE GONNA KEEP THE 1 0 8, NOT 1 1, 1 DASH ONE, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA USE UNSAFE, AND THAT'S IT.
ALL WE'RE GONNA ADD IS UNSAFE CONDITIONS BECAUSE THERE'S NO DISCUSSION.
I I DO HAVE A A, A OKAY, GO AHEAD.
A QUESTION, UH, AND I HATE TO JUST BE QUESTIONING EVERYTHING, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, UM, SOME THINGS ARE KIND OF VAGUE TO ME.
UM, THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, IT SEEMS THAT THE CODE OFFICIAL HAS ALREADY MADE THE DETERMINATION THAT THIS IS AN UNSAFE, UH, STRUCTURE, UH, OR UNLAWFUL STRUCTURE WITHOUT THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER HAVEN'T HAD A HEARING OR A, UH, MEANS TO APPEAL THIS.
AND, UM, SO WHEN IT SAYS HERE, OR THE EQUIPMENT SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE THREATS, THAT'S ALREADY A DETERMINATION IN MY OPINION.
UH, CAN WE CHANGE THAT TO MAY BE DEEMED TO BE THREATS BECAUSE, UH, THE, THE COURT OFFICIAL IS MAKING THE DECISION FOR WHATEVER COMMISSION OR WHAT, UH, WHATEVER HEARING MAY HAPPEN AFTER THAT.
AND, UH, SO INSTEAD OF SAYING SHALL, CAN WE SAY MAY, I THINK THESE CODE OFFICERS HAVE SO MUCH EXPERIENCE, THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, CIRCLE OUR HEAD AROUND TWO OR THREE TIMES, AND I BELIEVE THEY, THEY CAN RECOGNIZE WHAT IS UNSAFE AND WHAT IS NOT UNSAFE.
SO I DON'T THINK, THINK THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
THESE CODE OFFICERS HAVE 20 YEAR SERVICE AND MORE SO THEY'VE BEEN IN ENOUGH STRUCTURES TO REALIZE WHAT IS UNSAFE AND WHAT IS NOT.
I MEAN, WHAT'S THERE TO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT POINT ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE? I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
YES, UH, MY POINT IS I'VE BEEN AN ARCHITECT FOR OVER 40 YEARS, AND I CONTINUOUSLY ENCOUNTER, UH, PEOPLE OUT THERE MAKING DETERMINATIONS ON STRUCTURAL CONDITIONS, UH, STRUCTURAL UNSAFE STUFF.
WHEN THEY HAVE NO QUALIFICATIONS, UH, BEING ENGINEERS OR WHATEVER, THEY MAY HAVE 30 OR 40 YEARS EXPERIENCE.
AND SO I, UH, I'VE SEEN SOME OF THESE CODE OFFICIALS, UH, WELL MAYBE NOT SEEN THEM, BUT, UH, IT, IT, IT'S, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE TRAINING OF THESE CODE OFFICIALS IS WHEN THEY GO OUT TO A PROPERTY, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT ANYTHING STRUCTURAL UNLESS IT'S FALLING DOWN.
THEY'RE LOOKING AT THE CONDITIONS ON THE INSIDE OF THE STRUCTURE, WHETHER IT'S CLEAN, SANITARY, AND SAFE.
THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO SEE IF THE, THE BEAMS ARE RIGHT OR THE BEAMS ARE SET RIGHT.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT TYPE OF THING.
THEY ARE JUST LOOKING FOR THE, THE HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS.
NOW THOSE, THOSE CONDITIONS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MAY EXIST, BUT IT'S NOT TO THE CODE OFFICER'S, UH, YOU KNOW, LINE OF EXPERTISE.
SO THEY WOULDN'T BE COMMENTING ON THAT.
UM, THESE ARE FOR THE NOTICES OF VIOLATION, CORRECT.
SO LIKE ANY SORT OF INVESTIGATION, THERE HAS TO BE A BEGINNING, THERE HAS TO BE A MIDDLE, AND THERE HAS TO BE AN END.
THIS IS AT THE BEGINNING PORTION.
THIS IS AT THE BEGINNING PORTION OF IT, THE INVESTIGATION, RIGHT.
AND THE NOTICES OF THE RESULTS OF THAT INVESTIGATION.
SO TO ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS, THERE WILL BE DUE PROCESS.
THEY, THE PROPERTY OWNER WILL HAVE A CHANCE TO DISPUTE, AND IF THERE IS A FINDING AGAINST THEM TO APPEAL THAT FINDING TO A HIGHER COURT, WHETHER IT'S IN THE MUNICIPAL COURT SETTING, WHETHER IT'S IN THE ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING OFFICER SETTING OR THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD.
BUT AGAIN, JUST LIKE A POLICE OFFICER, UM, INVESTIGATING A REPORTED CRIME, IT ALL STARTS WITH, WITH THE INVESTIGATION AND THE REPORT.
AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY THE LANGUAGE IS AS SUCH.
IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE IS A DEEMED FINDING.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT HAS BEEN FOUND BY THE COURTS OR BY THE GOVERNING BODY.
AT THAT POINT, LET, UH, THIS IS FRED ANDES.
[01:05:01]
I CAN WALK IN AND TELL YOU IF IT'S PROBLEMS OR NOT.NOW, WHAT THE CODE OFFICER DOES, AS YOU'RE, HE MAY DEEM IT, THE STAFF MAY DEEM IT, BUT WHEN IT COMES IN FRONT OF THE BOARD, WE MAY NOT DEEM IT THAT.
OKAY? SO WHEN YOU'RE SITTING HERE, THIS IS THE GROUND LEVEL GUY, THIS IS THE, THE ONE THAT'S OUT THERE LOOKING.
WHEN WE SEE THE PICTURES AS THE BOARD, AS A, AS SITS UP HERE AND THE STAFF IS GIVEN THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS.
THEY'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE FOR WHATEVER ISSUES IT IS.
OKAY? SO THE WORD DEEMED TO ME IS NOT A PROBLEM.
THEN WE LOOK AT IT AS A BOARD AND WE'LL DETERMINE BASED OFF THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED BY BOTH SIDES, THEIR DUE PROCESS COMES INTO THE WELL 'CAUSE THEY GET UP HERE AND TALK, THEN WE'LL DETERMINE WHERE IT GOES FROM THERE.
SO THE WORDING IN HERE IS, SHALL, BUT YOU ALSO NOT LOOKING AT, AND OR, OKAY.
SO WHATEVER THEY'RE LOOKING AT IN THE FRONT THERE, THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO CONDEMN EVERYTHING OUT THERE.
IN FACT, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT EVEN 90% OF WHAT THEY DO.
THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF OUT THERE THAT SHOULD BE CONDEMNED.
BUT AGAIN, THE POLICIES AND THE STATE LAW PROHIBIT THEM FROM DOING THAT.
OKAY? WE ARE THE ONES IN THE BOARD HERE WHEN WE MEET THAT MAKE THE FINAL DETERMINATION.
AND THE LANGUAGE IN THERE IS ACTUALLY, HAS TO BE VAGUE BECAUSE IF YOU START TYING SPECIFIC LANGUAGE TO SPECIFIC THINGS, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO END UP SENDING THAT DIRECTION IN A WHOLE OTHER DIRECTION WHERE YOU CAN'T HAVE A COURT.
WHEN IT SAYS SHALL, THAT IS NOT VAGUE, UH, THAT IS PRETTY DETERMINED, UH, POSITION.
AND, UH, SO WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS MAY, UH, AS YOU STATED, UH, IT THAT THERE SHOULD BE A, UH, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY ON THAT.
UH, DAVID GARZA, BY THE TIME THE OFFICER GETS TO THIS POINT, TWO THINGS HAVE HAPPENED.
ONE, IT IS SO OBVIOUS TO THE OFFICER THAT THE EQUIPMENT IS UNSAFE, THAT HE DOESN'T NEED AN INVESTIGATION.
SO HE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO IT RIGHT THERE.
AND THEN THE OTHER SITUATION IS WHERE IT MAY NOT BE CLEAR AND MORE INVESTIGATION HAS TO BE DONE TO COME BACK AND MAKE THAT DECISION OR NOT MAKE THAT DECISION.
SO THE FLEXIBILITY, I BELIEVE, IS THERE.
MY COLLEAGUE, IT'S ALREADY THERE.
IT MAY, IT MAY NOT BE IN THE LANGUAGE OR IN THE WORDING THAT YOU WANT, BUT IT IS THERE.
AND I'M GONNA LISTEN TO MY ATTORNEYS BECAUSE KEY, ONE KEY WORD CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN WHAT HAPPENS IN THAT COURTROOM.
AND I APPRECIATE YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN YOUR FIELD, BUT I'M GONNA LISTEN TO THE ATTORNEY.
I, I APPRECIATE THE, THE COMMITMENT TO THE DUE PROCESS.
UH, BUT IT, IT JUST SEEMS THAT, UH, ONCE THE COURT OFFICIAL, UH, DETERMINES AND OR SAYS SHALL BE DEEMED TO BE THREATS, IT, IT STARTS A SLIPPERY SLOPE.
AND, AND THAT PROPERTY WILL BE, UM, SEEN AS A THREAT.
THIS IS BEFORE THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER AS ANY DUE PROCESS.
IT ALREADY HAS BEEN DESIGNATED AS A THREAT OR, OR THE, OR THE, THE EQUIPMENT OR THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN DESIGNATED AS A THREAT.
SO ONCE YOU HAVE A LABEL, UH, THEN IT'S VERY HARD TO DISMISS THAT LABEL.
OKAY, I'M GONNA REMIND, UH, EVERYONE THAT WE, WE DO NOT HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE CAN'T MAKE MOTIONS OR VOTE.
UM, SO LET'S MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM.
UM, JUST A, ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE A MOTION ON LATER WHEN WE DO HAVE QUORUM, JUST WRITE, KEEP A NOTE OF THAT.
THE NEXT ITEM IS ITEM NUMBER 14.
UH, SECTION 1 0 8 0.4, UH, PROHIBIT OCCUPANCY.
OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD TO KEEP THE S A P M C AS WRITTEN.
UH, IT READS ANY OCCUPIED STRUCTURE TERM BY THE CODE OFFICIALS TO BE A THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY OR WELFARE SHALL BE VACATED AS ORDERED BY THE CODE OFFICIAL FAILURE AS TO VACATE HIS ORDER BY THE CODE OFFICIAL IS A VIOLATION OF THIS CODE.
I, I, I THINK IT SPELLS IT OUT VERY CLEARLY, UM, AS OPPOSED TO THE LANGUAGE IN THE CURRENT, OR RATHER THE
[01:10:01]
PROPOSED, UH, 2021 I P M C.UM, SO AGAIN, OUR RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP THE SS A P M C AS WRITTEN, DID THAT NUMBERING'S GONNA GO TO, CORRECT? YES, YES, SIR.
CAN, CAN WE ACTUALLY HAVE YOU ASK THAT ON THE SPEAKER? SO IT'S ON THE RECORDING.
MY QUESTION WAS, ARE YOU GONNA CHANGE THE NUMBERING? AND THE ANSWER I GOT BACK WAS YES, IT'S GONNA BE 1, 1, 1 0.8, AND THEN WITH THE LANGUAGE FROM THE OLD CODE, CORRECT? NO, CORRECT.
SO, JUST TO CLARIFY, SO AGAIN, THE QUESTION WAS, IS THE NAMING CON OR ARE THE NUMBING CONVENTIONS GONNA CHANGE THE ANSWERS? YES.
SO THERE WERE SOME SECTIONS THAT WERE ADDED EARLY ON AND, AND, AND SO, UH, IT DOES MOVE EVERYTHING DOWN THE LIST.
SO THE NUMBER, UH, WILL CHANGE AS WELL.
MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER 15, UM, ABATEMENT METHODS, AGAIN, IT'S GONNA BE OUR RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP THE SS A P M C AS WRITTEN.
UH, 1 0 8 0.5 ABATEMENT METHODS, METHODS, THE OWNER OPERATOR OR OCCUPANT OF THE BUILDING PREMISES OR EQUIPMENT DEEMED TO BE A THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY OR WELFARE BY THE CODE OFFICIAL ABATE OR CAUSE TO BE ABATED OR CORRECT THE SUCH CONDITIONS EITHER BY THE REPAIR, REHABILITATION, DEMOLITION, OR BY APPROVED, UH, CORRECTIVE ACTION.
AGAIN, IT'S OUR RECOMMENDATION.
THEY KEEP, UH, THE SS A P M C HAS WRITTEN AS OPPOSED TO ADOPTING THE 2021 I P M C LANGUAGE DISCUSSION.
UH, UH, YES, THIS IS RED MORALES AGAIN, UH, THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, WHERE ONCE A PROPERTY IS DEEMED TO BE A THREAT OR, UH, EQUIPMENT DEEMED TO BE A THREAT, THEN IT STARTS AT SLIPPERY SLOPE.
UM, THIS IS BEFORE ANY DUE PROCESS.
AND THEN THE, THE ONLY THING I'LL, I'LL ADD TO THAT IS THAT AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S THE FIRST PART OF THE INVESTIGATION AND DUE PROCESS WILL FOLLOW, BUT IT, IT HAS TO START WITH A CERTAIN PREMISE OR A CERTAIN CONCLUSION DRAWN BY THE INVESTIGATORS OF THE CODE OFFICIALS.
AFTER THAT, OF COURSE, IT CAN BE CHALLENGED, IT CAN BE, UH, LITIGATED, IT CAN BE APPEALED QUESTION.
SO THE DUE PROCESS WE SHOULD ASSUME IS INHERENT AND ALL OF THESE STEPS? THAT IS CORRECT, SIR, WITHOUT THE LANGUAGE BEING THERE, IT'S THERE.
THESE, THESE REFER TO THE BEGINNING STAGES, TYPICALLY OF INVESTIGATIONS OR PROVIDING NOTICES OF CITATIONS OR NOTICES OF VIOLATIONS.
BUT THE DUE PROCESSES IS WRITTEN IN AND FOLLOWS WHETHER AGAIN, IT GOES THE CRIMINAL ROUTE OR THE B S B ROUTE OR THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATOR.
UM, LEGAL, IS THAT PART OF THE NOTICE WHEN, WHEN THEY GET A NOTICE OF A VIOLATION, DOES IT SAY THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING? OR, UM, DID, DOES STARCH THE PROCESS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? I DON'T KNOW THAT, THAT THEY EXPLICITLY SAY THAT.
UM, AND, AND AGAIN, TYPICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO CRIMINAL CITATIONS, WHETHER IT BE A TRAFFIC TICKET OR, UM, A, A HIGHER LEVEL OFFENSE, THERE IS NOT THAT, THAT PREFIX UH, EXPLAINING THAT THIS IS MERELY THE BEGINNING.
WELL, I BELIEVE IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I'VE GOTTEN A TICKET, BUT I BELIEVE IT SAYS YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO APPEAL.
THIS IS NOT A, UM, YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT ADMITTING GUILT.
YOU'RE JUST SAYING, YES, I GOT THE CITATION, ET CETERA.
SO IT'S SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT ON THE NOTICE, OR ANYONE THAT CAN ANSWER THAT.
THERE IS ONE THING I DID WANT TO ADDRESS TO MAKE SURE WE, UM, WE ADDRESS THE CONCERNS THAT YOU HAVE.
THE TITLE OF THIS SECTION IS ABATEMENT METHODS.
SO ONCE, IF, IF WE READ IT IN THE HOLE, INSTEAD OF TAKING OUT THOSE SHALLS OR POINTING THEM OUT, IT'S ONCE THE OWNER OR THE OPERATOR OR OCCUPANT OF A BUILDING, UM, PREMISES OR EQUIPMENT DEEMED TO BE A THREAT, WHAT IS TO BE DONE? WHAT'S TO BE DONE IS IT SHALL BE ABATED.
SO, I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN ABOUT IT, THAT THERE'S ALREADY SAYING THAT IT'S A BAD PROPERTY.
IT'S NOT THAT, IT'S WHAT ARE THE METHODS OF ABATEMENT? WELL, THE METHODS OF ABATEMENT FOR A PROPERTY THAT IS DEEMED TO BE A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND HEALTHY SHALL BE ABATED.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I, I'M, IT MAKES SENSE.
BUT, UH, IF YOU FOLLOW THE PHRASE THERE, IT SAYS, OR COST TO BE ABATED, RIGHT? SO, SO THE PROPERTY OWNER IS ALREADY BEING MADE TO ABATE, UH,
[01:15:01]
THE PROBLEM, UH, WHEN THEY HAVEN'T, UH, PROCEEDED WITH DUE PROCESS.BUT IT SHALL BE ABATED IF IT'S TO BE DEEMED A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY.
IF IT'S DEEMED TO BE A THREAT TO PUBLIC SAFETY, IT SHALL, IT SHALL BE CORRECTED.
THE, THOSE THREATS TO PUBLIC SAFETY SHALL BE CORRECTED.
SO, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND.
IT'S KIND OF THE WORDING SUCH AS WHAT SAM SAID, BUT ALSO GET TO WHAT THE ACTUAL TITLE OF THIS, THIS IS FRED ANN, LET ME GO BACK TO SOMETHING.
LET'S GO BACK TO THE VACANT PROPERTY.
IF THE VACANT PROPERTY IS WITHIN A THOUSAND YARDS OF A SCHOOL, THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE TO NOTIFY YOU.
THEY CAN GO ABATE IT, BECAUSE THE REQUIREMENT IS THE SAFETY OF THE CHILDREN AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO BASED OFF OF THAT, THE ABATEMENT IS DONE EITHER BY THE OWNER, BUT AT THE TIME THAT THE CITY WENT OUT THERE, BECAUSE OF THE RULE, THE STATE LAW SAYS A THOUSAND, A THOUSAND YARD, A THOUSAND FEET FROM THE SCHOOL.
OKAY? BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THAT, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ABATEMENT.
OKAY? THEN IT WILL BE DEALT WITH.
YOU CAN APPEAL IT WHEN YOU COME UP HERE, YOU CAN ACTUALLY, UH, APPEAL IT HERE.
BUT IF IT'S WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF AN IMMEDIATE ABATEMENT AS IT STATES AND THE SCHOOL, I, I DO, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE GET SOMETIMES HERE, PEOPLE DO NOT DO IT WITHIN THE REQUIRED TIME.
AND AT SOMETIMES IT'S THE GRASS IS SO HIGH, THEY'RE FOUR OR FIVE FEET HIGH, THAT THE CITY HAS TO DO IT FOR SAFETY REASONS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE'RE GONNA TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK.
I THINK WE GET STARTED, RIGHT? YES.
ARE WE GONNA TALK ABOUT THIS? YES.
SO EVERYONE, UH, IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU SHOULD RECEIVE A COPY OF THE, UM, NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
THIS IS THE NOTICE THAT'S HANDED, UH, IN PERSON TO THE PROPERTY OWNER OR TENANT.
UM, KIND OF WANNA WALK THROUGH QUICKLY THE NOTICE, UH, ITSELF.
UH, SO IN THE VERY TOWER POT FAR RIGHT, YOU SEE THE CASE NUMBER.
UH, WE, YOU KNOW, THE INFORMATION THAT WE REFER TO THE INFORMATION IS VERY IMPORTANT.
WHEN A PROPERTY OWNER CALLS, UH, 3 1 1, OR A TENANT CALLS 3 1 1 ASKING FOR AN UPDATE, UH, ON THEIR CASE, THEY REFER TO THAT NUMBER THERE.
OF COURSE, IT'S DATED, RIGHT? THE DATE WOULD BE THE DATE OF THE VIOLATION WAS ISSUED.
UH, THE ADDRESS OF VIOLATION IS THE, AGAIN, EXACTLY THAT, THE ADDRESS OF VIOLATION.
THE NAME IS WRITTEN ON THE TOP, WHETHER IT'S OWNER, OCCUPANT, OR AGENT.
AND THEN MAILING ADDRESS IS STOOD OUT AS WELL.
IF IT'S DIFFERENT, IT'S ALSO ADDED ONTO THE FORM.
UM, YOU'LL SEE THERE DOWN THE BOTTOM, LIKE A LITTLE RIBBON THERE.
UH, ALL OUR SS A P M C NOTICES ARE, UM, UH, TWO YEAR NOTICES.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT MEANS IS, UM, IF YOU RECEIVE ANOTHER VIOLATION, UH, OF THE SAME SUBSECTION WITHIN THAT, THAT TWO YEAR ANNIVERSARY, MEANING THAT FROM THE DATE YOU RECEIVED THE INITIAL NOTICE OF VIOLATION, UH, THE CITY NO LONGER OR DOES, IS NOT REQUIRED TO GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL NOTICE FOR THAT SAME VIOLATION.
UM, THEY CAN TAKE THAT NEXT STEP, THE NEXT STEP RATHER, UH, TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE, RIGHT? UM, RIGHT BELOW IT IS A LIST OF, UH, A CHECKLIST, RATHER OF ALL THE EXTERIOR INSPECTION VIOLATIONS THAT WE FINALLY, WE SEE, UH, KIND OF OUTLINES.
UM, RIGHT BELOW, IT'S WHERE WE OFFICER FILLS OUT, UM, THE NUMBER OF DAYS TO COMPLY.
YOU CAN SEE THERE, IT, IT'S INCLUDED.
WE SPELL OUT WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, 10 DAYS, WHATEVER, 30 DAYS, WHATEVER TIME PUT WE PUT, UH, KIND OF SPELLS OUT ALSO THE OFFICER'S CONTACT INFORMATION, THE BADGE NUMBER AND THE PHONE NUMBER.
AND THEN RIGHT BELOW IT, UM, IF SOMEONE'S THERE, WE HAVE 'EM SIGN FOR THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
SO, AGAIN, IF IT'S A TENANT OCCUPIED OR OWNER OCCUPIED, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY SIGN OFF ON IT AND THEN THEY GET A COPY OF THE NOTICE THEMSELVES.
UM, RIGHT BELOW THERE, AND, AND AGAIN, A LITTLE IN BOLD, IT'S THE, UH, COMMUNITY TWO S**T INFORMATION.
UH, IF SOMEBODY NEEDS ASSISTANCE WITH MAYBE, UH, A LAWNMOWER OR RAKE OR WHATEVER THIS, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE A HANDFUL OF, UH, GAS POWERED EQUIPMENT, TOOLS AND YARD TOOLS THAT ARE AVAILABLE, UH, TO HELP FOR THEM TO CHECK OUT AND CLEAN, CUTTING, CLEAN THE PROPERTY.
UM, AND THEN RIGHT BELOW IT IS WITH AREA, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT PORTION THAT CAN, UH, BE COMPLETED, SENT
[01:20:01]
BACK.UH, AND IT TALKS ABOUT THE APPEAL PROCESS, RIGHT? SO IT DOES FILL OUT, THE APPEAL MUST BE FILED, UH, NOT LATER THAN 10 BUSINESS DAYS AFTER THE SERVICE OF NOTICE.
SO AFTER WITHIN 10 DAYS, YOU HAVE TO RETURN THIS NOTICE.
UM, THE APPEAL MUST CONTAIN A BRIEF STATEMENT IDENTIFYING, UM, YOU KNOW, THE REASON FOR THE APPEAL, UM, DESCRIBING, YOU KNOW, WHAT ACTIONS YOU'D LIKE TO BE TAKEN, AND KIND OF ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER THE NOTICE SHOULD BE REVERSED, MODIFIED, OR OTHERWISE SET ASIDE.
UM, AND THEN OF COURSE, IF THERE'S ANY EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, WHETHER IT'S FINANCIAL ABILITY, UM, ANY OTHER KIND OF HARDSHIP, WHETHER IT'S MAYBE A, A MEDICAL HARDSHIP OR WHATEVER THE REASON MAY BE, UH, THEY CAN SPELL OUT AS WELL.
UM, HOWEVER, UH, THOSE ARE NOT NECESSARILY BASIS FOR APPEALS.
UM, MEANING THAT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE TO GO TO THE BOARD FOR MORE TIME.
WE, UH, ADMINISTRATIVELY CAN GIVE THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE TENANT MORE TIME WITHOUT GOING TO THE BOARD TO REQUEST MORE TIME.
IF, IF, IF THAT HELPS CLARIFY.
UM, AGAIN, IT DOES, UM, MAKE SURE YOU PROVIDE THE CURRENT MAILING ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER.
THAT'S WHERE STAFF WILL MAKE CONTACT WITH YOU AND KINDA EXPLAIN THE PROCESS IN DETAIL, WHAT THE APPEAL, UH, STEPS ARE.
AND IT KIND OF HAS A LITTLE MAILING ADDRESS AS WELL.
AND THEN ONCE THESE ARE RECEIVED, THEIR PROCESS THROUGH OUR ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF, UM, IF ANY APPEALS COME THROUGH.
SO I WENT THROUGH THAT RATHER QUICKLY, BUT IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS, UH, I, I APPRECIATE THIS, THIS FORM HERE, IT MAKES THINGS A LOT CLEARER.
AND IF WE HAD BEEN PROVIDED THIS EARLIER, I THINK WE WOULD'VE BEEN, UH, UH, AN HOUR AHEAD OF THE DISCUSSION.
UH, I, I LIKE THE, THE, THE FACT THAT ON THE APPEAL IT SAYS 10 BUSINESS DAYS, AND THAT IS WHAT I HAD BEEN ASKING FOR 10 BUSINESS DAYS AS OPPOSED TO 10 DAYS, WHICH ARE, UH, WHAT WERE EXPLAINED TO ME AS 10 CALENDAR DAYS.
UH, SO WHY IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE APPEAL FOR, UH, AS IT SAYS 10 BUSINESS DAYS AND, AND UP ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS YOU'RE HEREBY NOTIFIED TO COMPLY WITHIN 10, WITHIN BLANK DAYS.
UH, AND THAT IS A PER THE DISCRETION OF THE COURT OFFICIAL, BUT WHY IS IT NOT, UH, STATE THEIR BUSINESS DAYS? ALL RIGHT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SECTION RIGHT ABOVE.
UM, SO YOU WANT SPECIFICALLY THE LANGUAGE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE, WHY IS IT INCLUDED? WHY DOESN'T IT READ BUSINESS DAY AS OPPOSED TO JUST READING BLANK? CORRECT.
UM, I, I, I, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.
I JUST KNOW IT'S JUST, IT'S NEVER BEEN INCLUDED.
NOW AGAIN, THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, FROM A PRACTICAL STANDPOINT, FROM A, FROM JUST FROM FROM WORK.
SO OUR OFFICERS WORK FIVE DAYS A WEEK, RIGHT? AND SO THOSE ARE OUR FIVE BUSINESS WORK DAYS, IF YOU WILL.
UH, EVEN THOUGH WE SAY WE GIVE 'EM 10 DAYS, IT COULD BE POTENTIALLY JUST FIVE WORKING DAYS, RIGHT? UM, OR 10 WORKING DAYS RATHER.
UM, BUT WE WANTED TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO THE PROPERTY OWNER THAT THEY HAVE 10 BUSINESS DAYS.
IT ACTUALLY GIVES THEM MORE TIME AS OPPOSED TO CALENDAR DAYS TO FILE THEIR APPEAL TO CORRECT THAT VIOLATION.
'CAUSE AGAIN, GOING AND, AND I DON'T, NOT TO OVERCOMPLICATE THE PROCESS, BUT AGAIN, WE ACCOUNT FOR THAT MAIL-IN PERIOD, RIGHT? AND SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE AFFORD THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THEM TO, I, I APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT, UM, TO BE MORE CONSISTENT, UH, THE, UH, THE BOLDEN, UH, TEXT UP ABOVE, UM, IT, IT ONLY HAS DAYS ON THERE, BLANK, YOU KNOW, UH, AND, UH, UH, PARENTHESES OR, UH, BRACKETS, AND THEN DAYS, IT DOESN'T SAY BUSINESS DAYS.
AND TO BE CONSISTENT, YOU, YOU SHOW 10 BUSINESS DAYS ON THE APPEAL MUST BE FILED NO LATER THAN THAN 10 BUSINESS DAYS.
AND THEN FURTHER DOWN THE, THE, THE, THAT SECTION, IT, IT STATES FURTHER 10 BUSINESS DAYS.
SO WHY CAN'T WE JUST BE MORE CONSISTENT INSTEAD OF ADDING VAGUENESS TO THE PROCESS? SO, WE'LL, WE'LL DEFINITELY TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND CIRCLE BACK WITH AT OUR NEXT MEETING, UM, FOR, FOR MORE CLARIFICATION.
BUSINESS DAYS ARE USUALLY FOR BUSINESSES.
IF YOU'RE A HOMEOWNER, YOU'RE NOT WORKING ON A BUSINESS DAY CALENDAR, YOU'RE WORKING STRAIGHT.
SO IF YOU GET A 10 DAY NOTICE, THEN YOU GO, YOU'VE GOT 10 DAYS FROM THE TIME YOU GET THE NOTICE.
THE, THE PROBLEM IF, IF YOU'RE A HOMEOWNER IS THAT YOU CAN'T ACCESS A CITY, UH, UH, UH, DEPARTMENTS BECAUSE THEY ONLY HAVE 10 WORKING DAYS.
AND IF, UH, SO YOU MAY HAVE A LOT OF TIME, BUT THE CITY IS ONLY WORKING A CERTAIN NUMBER OF DAYS, SO YOU CAN'T CONTACT THEM ON THE WEEKENDS.
THIS IS, THIS IS, I MEAN, THIS IS, I MEAN, WITH THE CITY, AND I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
THAT'S THE REASON WHY THE APPEAL IS BUSINESS DAYS, NOT CALENDAR DAYS.
BECAUSE IF THE CITY IS CLOSED FOR A HOLIDAY, WE DON'T WANNA BURDEN YOU
[01:25:01]
AS A, A PERSON WHO RECEIVED A NOTICE TO SAY, OH, I COULDN'T APPEAL BECAUSE THE CITY WAS CLOSED.THAT'S WHY THE APPEAL IS PHYSICALLY 10 BUSINESS DAYS TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE 10 DAYS THAT THE CITY IS IN OPERATION AND YOU HAVE YOUR CHANCE TO APPEAL.
BUT I GUESS IN REGARDS TO THE REPAIR OR CUTTING YOUR GRASS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IT'S REALLY 10 DAYS BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED TO CUT THE GRASS ON A DAY THAT IT'S NOT HOLIDAY.
I GUESS MAYBE THAT'S THE EXPLANATION.
UH, BUT DIDN'T, WASN'T THE CASE THAT THE, UH, IT, IT WAS SAID THAT THE CITY COULD PROVIDE SOME, UH, EQUIPMENT TO HELP THE RESIDENTS WITH, UH, COMPLYING WITH THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
SO IF THE CITY'S CLOSED AND THE EQUIPMENT CANNOT BE REACHED, OR IF THE, IF THE, IF THE, IF THE OWNER, THE PROPERTY CANNOT FIND A, A, A CONTRACTOR ON A SUNDAY TO, TO GET TO DO THOSE THINGS, SHOULDN'T BE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE ARE SOME SERVICES, EITHER PRIVATE OR THE CITY THAT NEED TO BE REQUIRED FOR COMPLYING.
UH, THAT MAYBE MAKES SENSE TO CHANGE THAT TO CA UH, TO, TO BUSINESS DAYS.
I, I THINK IF WE'RE ALREADY DOING IT, UH, IF WE'RE PROVIDING THAT LENIENCY, UH, JUST PUTTING ON THEIR BUSINESS DAYS, IT IS NOT DIFFICULT.
SO THE NEXT ITEMS, ACTUALLY THE NEXT MOVE ON.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU RESTATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD? THANK YOU.
ONE THING I WOULD ADD TO HERE AS WELL AS IN THE PROCESS NOW THAT WE ARE IN THE, UH, 21ST CENTURY, IS TO BE ABLE TO DO THE PROCESS OF APPEALING OR WHATEVER BY EMAIL SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO, TO MAIL IT.
BECAUSE MAILING, I, I MEAN, ONE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING IS THAT BY THE TIME THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION LANDS ON MY DESK WITH THE, UH, CURRENT, UH, WAY THE MAIL SERVICE IS RUNNING, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE ONE DAY OR TWO DAYS LEFT, AND, AND WE'LL JUST CALL AND TELL 'EM, WE JUST GOT THIS AND THERE'S NO PROBLEM.
BUT FOR A CITIZEN WHO DOESN'T NECESSARILY KNOW HOW THE PROCESS WORKS, BUT ORGANIZATIONS, GOVERNMENTAL BODIES LIKE THE BEARER APPRAISAL DISTRICT ACCEPT APPEALS BY EMAIL AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND SO I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE EASIER, YOU KNOW, SO THAT IT COMES IN, IN A TIMELY, FAST FASHION THAT YOU'RE, ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE TO SEND IT IN BY EMAIL AND THEN LIST POSSIBLY THE CODE OFFICER'S EMAIL ADDRESS HERE ALSO, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU CAN SEND IT IN.
SO THAT WOULD BE ONE RECOMMENDATION THAT I WOULD HAVE ON THAT SECTION.
THIS IS EMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
UM, ON THE BREAK, WHEN WE GOT THE NOTICES, WE INTERNALLY TALKED ABOUT IT AND WE SAID WE'RE GONNA ADD EMAIL ADDRESS TO IT.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT YOU SAID AND WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IS WE ARE NOT GONNA INCLUDE THE CODE OFFICER EMAIL ADDRESS, BECAUSE AGAIN, IF, LET'S SAY THEY ISSUED A NOTICE AND THEN THEY GO ON TWO, THREE DAY VACATION, THEN THEY'RE NOT GONNA GET THAT EMAIL.
SO WE'RE GONNA INCLUDE AN EMAIL ADDRESS THAT MULTIPLE PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO.
THAT WAY WE CAN MONITOR THAT EMAIL ADDRESS.
SO COULD THERE BE A CENTRAL APPEAL EMAIL ADDRESS CREATED THAT, THAT THAT'S IT, THAT WOULD, EVERYTHING WOULD GO TO, ABSOLUTELY.
CAN I SAY SOMETHING? UH, THIS IS FRED.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GONNA BE HERE ON THE NEXT MEETING OR SO, IF YOU COULD EMAIL THE BOARD THE SAME COMMENTS.
'CAUSE WE CAN'T VOTE ON ANYTHING ON THE, ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IF NOT, WELL, I'M JUST SAYING, IF NOT, CAN YOU EMAIL SO WE HAVE IT ON THE RECORD AS WELL? THANK YOU.
THAT ALSO GOES FOR ANYONE THAT'S WATCHING.
IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, PLEASE EMAIL.
SO THE NEXT, UM, FOUR ITEMS, UM, ITEM 16, 17, 18, AND 19.
UM, DEAL WITH A MEANS OF APPEAL.
UM, JUST BEFORE WE KIND DIVE INTO IT, JUST AS MR. TOMAS MENTIONED EARLIER, UH, THE INTERNATIONAL PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE IS WRITTEN FOR, UH, ALL JURISDICTIONS, RIGHT? UH, LARGE AND SMALL.
AND SO THERE'RE SMALLER MUNICIPALITIES OUT THERE THAT DO NOT HAVE A, UM, UH, A, A MAYBE A BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD OR A MEANS OF APPEAL.
UM, BUT WE DO, AND SO, UH, THE NEXT FOUR SECTIONS, UM, AND I'LL GO THROUGH 'EM INDIVIDUALLY, HOWEVER, WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE COULD KEEP THE S A P M C AS WRITTEN OUR MEANS OF APPEAL.
THE APPELLATE PROCESS IS ALREADY SPELLED OUT IN CHAPTER SIX, UM, THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD.
[01:30:01]
RECOMMEND THAT WE KEEP IT AND NOT ADOPT THE, UH, 2021 I P M C LANGUAGE.THE, THE, UM, I WOULD, UH, I READ THE LANGUAGE ON THE 2021 I P M C, AND I PREFER THAT LANGUAGE BECAUSE IT, IT ESTABLISHED THAT BOARD OF APPEALS, UM, UH, SEPARATE FROM THE B S B I SUPPOSE.
UH, THAT'S THE WAY I INTERPRET IT.
AND THAT, UM, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN YOU, UH, HAVE A CASE BEFORE THE COURT, A COURT, UH, YOU DON'T GO TO THAT SAME COURT AND, UH, APPEAL YOUR CASE BEFORE THAT SAME COURT BECAUSE THE JUDGE OR THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THAT COURT, UH, HAS ALREADY RULED AGAINST YOU.
AND, UH, SO TO, TO APPEAL TO THE SAME BOARD IS, IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, UH, IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.
UH, IT JUST DOESN'T ENCOURAGE ANYTHING.
AND, UH, UH, SO THE WAY I READ THAT IS THAT THE BOARD OF APPEALS SHALL BE APPOINTED BY APPLICABLE GOVERNING AUTHORITY.
I'M NOT SURE WHO THAT GOVERNING AUTHORITY IS, WHETHER IT'S CITY COUNCIL OR D S D OR WHOEVER.
UH, AND, AND IF I HAD A VOTE, UH, THAT'S THE WAY I WOULD VOTE.
BUT, UH, YEAH, IT IS JUST MY 2 CENTS WORDS.
I, I THINK, I THINK THIS IS ERIC BURNS WITH LEGAL.
I DO WANNA MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.
UM, B S B APPEALS DO NOT GO BACK TO THE BOARD.
UM, B S B APPEALS GO TO DISTRICT COURT.
UM, THE BUILDING STANDARD BOARD IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL BOARD, WHICH HOLDS LEGAL WEIGHT.
SO FOR THAT BOARD, UH, ORDERS TO BE, UH, APPEALED, THEY GO TO DISTRICT COURT.
AND THEY JUST, AND JUST TO, OKAY.
JUST, JUST TO ADD TO THAT, SO BASICALLY, UM, WE JUST WENT OVER THE NOTICE.
SO IF, IF I RECEIVE THIS NOTICE AND I WANNA APPEAL THIS, BASICALLY I AM APPEALING THE CODE OFFICER'S DECISION AND I'M, I'M APPEALING THAT DECISION TO THE BUILDING STANDARD BOARD.
NOW, IF THE BUILDING STANDARD BOARD ISSUE AN ORDER AND YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN GO AND APPEAL THAT TO DISTRICT COURT, SO YOU'RE NOT APPEALING TO THE SAME ENTITY OR INDIVIDUAL.
SO AGAIN, SO ITEM NUMBER 16, AGAIN, OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD KEEP THE SS A P M C AS WRITTEN.
UH, ITEM 17, UM, AGAIN, DEALS WITH MEANS OF APPEALS.
SAME RECOMMENDATION, KEEP THE S A P M C AS WRITTEN.
ITEM 18 WOULD BE THE SAME RECOMMENDATION ITEM 19 AS WELL.
UH, BECAUSE AGAIN, THE MEANS OF APPEALS IS SPELLED OUT IN CHAPTER SIX.
OKAY, WE'LL TABLE THOSE ITEMS AND MOVE ON TO ITEM 20.
ITEM NUMBER 20, UM, DEALS WITH AUTHORITY.
UM, AGAIN, IT'S OUR RECOMMENDATION TO ADOPT THE, UH, UH, THE I P M C AS WRITTEN.
UM, IT REALLY JUST SCRATCHES OUT WHENEVER IT ADDS WHERE, RIGHT.
UM, AND SO WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT IT'S ADAPTED AS WRITTEN DISCUSSION MOVING FORWARD.
ITEM NUMBER 21, UH, DEALS OR SECTION TITLE ISSUANCE.
IT'S OUR RECOMMENDATION, AGAIN, TO ADOPT AS WRITTEN.
UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE WORD, A SCRATCH OR LETTER A SCRATCHED OUT, IT'S THE IN FRONT OF STOP WORK ORDER.
AND RATHER THAN DOING, UM, THEIR TRAINING IS TO PERFORMING.
AND SO WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT IT'S ADOPTED AS WRITTEN AS WELL.
UH, THE NEXT ITEM, ITEM NUMBER 22, UH, IS, UH, WITH TERMS OF, UM, DEFINED IN OTHER CODES.
UM, IT'S OUR RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP THE SS A P M C IS WRITTEN.
UH, WE ALREADY SPELL OUT AT THE END OF THE SS A P M C.
UH, THE OTHER CODES RATHER, THAT ARE APPLICABLE IN THIS SECTION IS CHAPTER EIGHT OF THE CITY CODE.
AND SO, RATHER THAN, UM, ADOPTING THE 2021 I P M C, WHERE THEY SPELL OUT INDIVIDUALLY EACH SECTION OF THE CODE, RATHER, IT'S ALREADY INCLUDED IN THE CHAPTER EIGHT OF OUR I P M C OR THEIR S A P M C DISCUSSION.
UH, IT'S ROBERT TO, I CAN'T HEAR.
UM, IT'S ROBERT TO, UM, I WANTED TO BRING UP THE VERY LAST, UM, REFERENCE TO INTERNATIONAL EXISTING BUILDING CODE.
[01:35:01]
SPECIFICALLY JUST PUT I P M C? YEAH.THAT'S THE INTERNATIONAL EXISTING BUILDING CODE.
IT'S, IT'S A SEPARATE BUILDING CODE.
IT'S A STANDALONE CODE ON ITS OWN.
IT'S THE I E X, UH, BC, OR I E I E B C.
THAT'S THE ACRONYM, ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT IS.
AND SO IT DEALS WITH THE EXISTING BUILDING CODE.
IT'S SEPARATE FROM THE BUILDING CODE AND FROM THE I P M C.
IT'S A, IT'S A STANDALONE CODE AS WELL.
SO SHOULD WE NOT PUT THAT ACRONYM IN? UH, I DON'T THINK NECESSARILY WE NEED IT.
'CAUSE I THINK IT'S SPELLED OUT ALREADY IN CHAPTER EIGHT, INCLUDES ALL THE CODES THAT, UM, THAT ARE OUT THERE AS WELL.
AND SO I BELIEVE IT, LEMME JUST DOUBLE CHECK.
I BELIEVE IT ALREADY INCLUDES IT IN CHAPTER EIGHT.
YEAH, IT, IT TALKS ABOUT A REFERENCE STANDARD IN, YEAH.
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION MOVING FORWARD? OKAY.
IT'S THE, UH, NEW SECTION UNDER GENERAL DEFINITIONS.
UH, THE I P M C ADDED A DEFINITION FOR EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENING, UH, WHICH WOULD BE AN OPENABLE EXTERIOR WINDOW DOOR, OR OTHER SIMILAR DEVICE THAT PROVIDES FOR A MEANS OF ESCAPE AND ACCESS FOR RESCUE IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY.
UM, WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT WE ADAPT THIS WRITTEN DISCUSSION.
I WOULD THINK THAT, THAT, UH, THIS IS RAY MORALES AGAIN.
I WOULD THINK THAT WE ALREADY HAVE THAT IN THE CODE.
SO, SO WE DO HAVE, UH, A DEFINITION OF EMERGENCY ESCAPE OPENING.
WE DON'T HAVE EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENING.
UH, THAT'S THE, UH, THE AMENDMENT THAT WAS ADDED TO THE I P M C.
SO THEY'RE ADDING, IF YOU, WHICH IS THE NEXT SECTION I'M GONNA GO INTO.
UM, THEY'RE ADDING RESCUE IN FRONT OF OPENING, MOVING FORWARD.
SO THE FINAL SECTION IS, UH, ITEM NUMBER 24 DEALS WITH EMERGENCY ESCAPE OPENINGS.
UH, AGAIN, UH, OUR RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO ADOPT THIS WRITTEN, UH, TO ADOPT OR TO RATHER TO, UH, TO AMEND OUR, OUR CODE TO READ, UH, EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND A RESCUE OPENING AS OPPOSED TO WHAT IT READS NOW.
UH, EMERGENCY ESCAPE OPENINGS DISCUSSION.
SO LET, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ON THIS HERE.
UH, THERE'S EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENINGS.
UH, THEY, THEY MAKE SENSE TO ME.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT HAVE, UH, BURGLAR BARS OR, UH, OTHER THINGS ALREADY BUILT INTO THE EXISTING BUILDINGS? WOULD THAT MAKE 'EM UNLAWFUL THEN? UM, CURRENTLY, THERE'S, THERE'S NO EXCEPTIONS, UH, TO THE CODE.
UM, THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE SPELLED ON OTHER EXCEPTIONS AND NOT IN THIS CASE HERE.
SO, UM, HOWEVER, IT DOES TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO BE OPENABLE WITHOUT A LOCK OR A KEY, RIGHT? SO THE IDEA IS SOMEBODY'S NOT TRAPPED IN A, UM, A BUILDING OR A STRUCTURE WHERE THEY NEED A SPECIAL TYPE OF TOOL OR, OR CERTAIN SKILLS TO UNLOCK IT AND TO GET OUT, RIGHT? SO, SO MY QUESTION AGAIN IS, UH, WITH THE EXISTING STRUCTURES, UH, WOULD IT BE BETTER TO, UH, CREATE AN EXCEPTION FOR THEM, UH, BECAUSE THEY WERE BUILT, UH, ACCORDING TO CODE AT THE TIME, AND NOW WE'RE ADDING THIS, UH, SECTION, IF YOU READ THE SECTION, IT SAYS, UM, IT SAYS, UH, PROVIDED THE, OH, A LITTLE BIT FURTHER DOWN.
OH, WITH THE CODE THAT WAS IN EFFECT AT THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION AND SUCH DEVICES SHALL BE RELEASABLE, ET CETERA.
THIS IS AMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
SO THE REQUIREMENT IS BASICALLY BASED ON THE TIME THAT STRUCTURE WAS BUILT.
SO IF THAT STRUCTURE WAS BUILT, LET'S SAY 20 YEARS AGO, THIS REQUIREMENT WAS THERE, AND IF THEY PUT BARS, THEN THAT'S AGAINST CODE.
BUT IF THE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE WAS BUILT 50 YEARS AGO, AND THIS WAS NOT A REQUIREMENT AT THAT TIME, THEN THEY'RE TECHNICALLY GRANDFATHERED, IF YOU WILL.
AND THEN WE'LL GET TO THE PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, ALSO, YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT, THIS IS ALSO IN CONJUNCTION WITH A FIRE CODE.
OKAY? SO THERE'S OTHER CODES OUT THERE THAT GOVERN EXISTING BUILDINGS THAT THEY DO GIVE THEM SPECIFIC TIMES TO, LIKE, IF YOU GET A
[01:40:01]
MODIFIED BUILDING OR YOU GO INTO REHAB, YOU'VE GOTTA COME UP TO CODE.SO EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE GRANDFATHERED, YOU STILL HAVE TO COME UP TO CODE IF YOU'RE DOING THE REMODELING OR, OR ANY KIND OF ISSUE.
BUT IF IT'S AN EXISTING BUILDING THAT'S, THAT HASN'T BEEN REMODELED OR, OR NO PERMIT REQUIRED SUBSEQUENT TO BEEN BUILT, AND IT WAS BUILT ACCORDING TO CODE, OKAY? SO AS A PERSON WHO'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME, IT'S NEVER BEEN LEGAL TO PUT BURGLAR BARS ON ALL THE WET THE BEDROOM DOORS THAT DON'T HAVE AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE WINDOWS TO BE, UH, AN ESCAPE ROUTE.
SO IF SOMEBODY CAME UP AND PUT BUILDER BURGLAR BARS IN ANY POINT IN TIME, AND BASICALLY THEY'VE CREATED A TRAP WHERE YOU KNOW YOU'RE GONNA DIE INSIDE YOUR HOUSE 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T GET OUT, THAT'S NOT LEGAL.
IT'S NEVER BEEN LEGAL, EVEN BACK TO THE, UH, PROBABLY 1950S, 1940S, 1930S, BECAUSE SINCE THE BUILDING CODE HAS BEEN ADOPTED, IT'S ALWAYS REQUIRED TO TWO INGRESS EGRESS POINTS OUT OF EVERY BEDROOM THAT THERE ARE.
AND SO, A HOUSE THAT HAS BURGLAR BARS THAT ARE SOLID WITHOUT YOU OPEN IT AND THERE'S A RELEASE DEVICE, THE CITY SHOULD BE GOING AND CLAMPING DOWN ON THAT BECAUSE YOU TRAGICALLY YOU SEE A FIRE THAT HAPPENS AND SOMEBODY'S DEAD BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET THROUGH THE BAR TO GET OUT.
OTHERWISE, THE ONLY REQUIREMENT THE CITY HAS CHANGED IS THAT IN THAT ROOM WHERE THE BURGLAR BAR IS INSTALLED, IT HAS TO HAVE A SMOKE DETECTOR IN THAT BEDROOM, WHICH I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN PROPONENTS OF REQUIRING EVERY HOUSE IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TO INSTALL SMOKE DETECTORS, YOU KNOW, ONE IN THE HALL AND ONE IN EVERY BEDROOM.
BUT THERE WASN'T AN APPETITE THE LAST CYCLE TO DO THAT.
IT'S REQUIRED IN, IN RENTAL PROPERTY, BUT NOT HOMEOWNER OCCUPIED PROPERTY.
AND, YOU KNOW, 90% OF THE DEATHS THAT OCCUR IN FIRES IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IN A, IN A HOUSE STRUCTURE, WOULD BE PREVENTED WITH JUST A SIMPLE SMOKE DETECTOR.
WELL, IT'S NOT JUST A SMOKE DETECTOR, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.
IT'S ALSO CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTORS ARE NOW REQUIRED.
SO ESPECIALLY IN YOUR, IF ONLY A NEW CONSTRUCTION, WELL, IF YOU NEED A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY, YOU GONNA HAVE TO HAVE THAT AS A RENTAL PROPERTY.
OKAY, SO IT WAS, WAS THERE ANOTHER COMMENT? UH, YES, JUST A QUESTION.
UM, IRMA HOFFMAN 30 11 WHITETAIL DRIVE, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, DOES THIS MEAN, LET'S SAY FOR, FOR MYSELF, FOR MY HOME THAT IS OVER 50 YEARS OLD, IT DOES HAVE LAR BARS AND IT DOES HAVE OPENINGS ON THE, UH, ON THE WINDOWS, BUT IT ALSO HAS THREE DOORS WHERE ONE CAN ESCAPE.
I MEAN, DOES THAT MEAN THAT SOMEBODY CAN KNOCK ON MY DOOR THAT, UH, WHAT I'M ASKING IS, DOES A CODE COMPLIANCE, IT GIVES CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICERS MORE FREEDOM TO KNOCK ON PEOPLE'S DOORS AND ASK THEM, YOU KNOW, LET ME LOOK AT YOUR HOUSE AND SEE IF YOU HAVE AN, UH, OPENINGS, UH, ON YOUR WINDOWS OR DOORS.
IS THAT, IS THAT WHAT THIS DOES? 'CAUSE IT'S A, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A FREE FOR ALL REALLY.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST ONE MORE THING TO CHECK ON.
AND I, I UNDERSTAND THE SAFETY ISSUES, BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HOMES, NOT ONLY HERE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, BECAUSE THIS IS INTERNATIONAL.
SO I MEAN, THEY, THEY CAN DO THAT, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S LIKE ONE MORE THING TO CHECK ON.
IS THAT CORRECT? I'M GONNA DEFER THAT ONE TO THE LEGAL.
I MEAN, THEY COULD DO IT, BUT THAT'S IN THEIR REALM.
AND I THINK THIS IS ALSO DAVID GARZA.
I THINK THIS IS JUST ALSO A COMMENT PERIOD.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS, IF THE CHAIR WANTS TO, UH, UH, GET INTO FULL DIALOGUE BASED ON THE COMMENTS, THAT'S ALL.
UM, YES, PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION.
SO YEAH, CERTAINLY ANY KIND OF, ANY KIND OF VIOLATION, UH, OF ANY SORT, WHETHER IT BE A CODE VIOLATION OR SOMETHING ALONG THIS LINES WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE SPECIFIC IN THE FIRE CODE.
UM, AND SO IN ANY EVENT, UH, YES, VIOLATIONS THAT ARE OBVIOUS TO THE EYE MAY BE INVESTIGATED.
YEAH, I JUST, I JUST FEEL IT'S VERY INTRUSIVE AND I CAN
[01:45:01]
UNDERSTAND THE SAFETY ISSUES.BUT THAT MEANS THAT EVERY CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER WOULD HAVE ONE MORE LIST OF THINGS TO CHECK ON TO SEE WHETHER CITIZENS ARE OBEYING.
AND I, I, I FEEL THAT THAT'S VERY FRIGHTENING.
'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY, WE ARE ALREADY, AS MANY OF YOU MAY PERCEIVE IN A, UH, IN A WORLD THAT IS MONITORING US.
AND, UH, IT'S JUST ANOTHER, ANOTHER WAY OF GETTING INTO PEOPLE'S HOMES.
UM, WHETHER IT, IT WOULD BE AN, UH, AN EXCUSE FOR CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICERS OR POLICE OFFICERS SAYING, WELL, THE CODE COMPLIANCE OFFICER SAID THAT YOU HAVE VIOLATED THIS, SO WE NEED TO ENTER YOUR HOME.
UM, UH, ALL OF ALL OF US ARE ALREADY SUBJECTED TO A LOT OF SURVEILLANCE.
AND IF Y'ALL CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE WORLD, IT IS, UH, FRIGHTENING IN A, UH, FRIGHTENING, I WILL SAY THIS.
AND, UH, WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD WITH, UH, I'M JUST GOING TO SAY IT, THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION THAT WANTS TO RULE ALL THE, UM, HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRIES, UM, LED BY, UM, UH, EVEN THAT IT'S BEING APPROVED.
IT'S VERY SCARY THAT OUR FAMILIES AND OUR CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN WILL BE SUBJECTED TO THIS.
THAT WE ALLOW THIS, THIS IS JUST ONE MORE EXCUSED TO KNOCK ON SOMEONE'S DOOR AND SAY, YOU ARE IN VIOLATION BECAUSE OF YOUR BURGLAR BARS OR, OR
SO, SO THAT IS, IS MY CONCERN.
I DO NOT PERSONALLY TRUST THE INTERNATIONAL, THIS INTERNATIONAL LAW.
THIS, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
JUST TO CLARIFY, UH, THIS REQUIREMENT HAS BEEN IN THE CODE FOR A LONG TIME.
UH, IT IS IN THE FIRE CODE AS WELL.
UM, THE REASON WHY, EARLIER WHEN I SAID 50 YEARS, BECAUSE WE HAD AN INCIDENT WHERE WE GET A COMPLAINT FROM, UH, A TENANT IN AN APARTMENT AND THEY SAID, UH, THEY HAD A SMALL FIRE IN THE KITCHEN AND THE ONLY WAY TO LEAVE THE BEDROOM TO GO THROUGH THE KITCHEN BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE A WINDOW.
AND WE WENT BACK, UH, WITH THE FIRE CODE, WITH THE FIRE CHIEF, AND WE REVIEWED THE BUILDING, INSPECTED THE BUILDING, WE LOOKED AT THE CODE AND WE WENT BACK TO THE TIME THE BUILDING WAS BUILT.
IT WAS 1964, AND THAT CODE WAS IN THE CODE, UH, THAT, THAT RULE WAS IN THE CODE.
AND WE ASKED THE OWNER TO COMPLY, AND HE DID ADD WINDOWS IN EVERY BEDROOM TO MAKE SURE NOBODY GET TRAPPED AND, YOU KNOW, DIE FROM A FIRE AGAIN.
SO MY POINT HERE IS IT'S LIFE SAFETY.
UH, IT IS IN THE CODE, BUT CODE OFFICERS DON'T JUST WALK INTO HOUSES AND KNOCK THE DOOR AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, I WANNA CHECK IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, UH, WITH THIS SECTION OF THE CODE.
UH, NORMALLY IT'S MORE A CODE COMPLAINT, UH, THAT WE, WE RECEIVE AND THEN WE GO RESPOND TO IT.
UM, I JUST WANNA STATE FOR THE RECORD, WE'RE GONNA TABLE THE MINUTES AS WELL, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE QUORUM EARLIER.
WE HAD DECIDED TO WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO COME AND, UM, THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
IS THERE A DIRECTOR'S REPORT? YES.
SO THERE ARE A FEW MORE ITEMS TO DISCUSS.
IF SO, ITEM NUMBER THREE, UM, IT WOULD'VE BEEN OPEN FOR DISCUSSION WITH PROPOSED SS A P M C AMENDMENTS.
UH, TO DATE, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY S A P M C AMENDMENT PROPOSALS FROM THE PUBLIC.
UH, WE ARE GONNA BE CANCELING NEXT WEEK'S MEETING JUNE THE THIRD TO ALLOW, UH, THE PUBLIC ANOTHER TWO WEEKS TO SUBMIT THEIR PROPOSALS IF THEY HAVE ANY.
UM, I DO WANNA WALK AGAIN THROUGH THE, JUST THIS IS A DIRECTOR'S REPORT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE MEETING TODAY IS THE 27TH.
WE'LL RECONVENE ON JUNE THE 10TH.
UH, UH, THE CLOSING DATE FOR ALL GENERAL PUBLIC, UM, COMMENTS IS NEXT FRIDAY, JUNE THE THIRD.
SO I GIVE SOME TIME TO PUT IT TOGETHER.
UM, IF WE DO GET SOME, AND WE CAN DISCUSS THEM ON JUNE THE 10TH.
AGAIN, JUST REMINDING THE PUBLIC THAT IF, IF THERE IS ANY PUBLIC OR RATHER, UH, THESE ARE SOME OF OUR WEBSITES HERE.
UH, AGAIN, ALL THESE MEETINGS ARE RECORDED.
YOU CAN SEE THE RECORDING ONLINE.
UH, YOU CAN EMAIL YOUR COMMENTS DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL ADDRESS AT SA CODE@SANANTONIO.GOV.
UH, IT'S A, UH, AN EMAIL THAT GETS SENT DIRECTLY TO A, A, A SMALL, UH, D S D STAFF, IF YOU WILL.
AND THEN, UH, AGAIN, ALL THE CODE ADOPTIONS, EVERYTHING WE'VE COVERED IS GONNA BE POSTED ONLINE AS WELL.
HAVE, EXCUSE ME, HAVE SOME OF THESE, UH, POSTINGS BEEN, UH, DONE
[01:50:01]
ON THE NEWSPAPER OR TELEVISION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? UH, SO THAT THE PUBLIC IS MORE AWARE THAT THIS IS GOING ON? UM, I, I UNDERSTAND YOU, YOU HAVE IT ON THE WEBSITE, BUT I, I'VE BEEN AN ARCTIC FOR SO LONG AND I DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THE WEBSITE.UM, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S JUST, UH, NOT INTERESTING.
BUT NO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, UH, ALL THIS INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE ONLINE, UH, ON OUR ESSAY SPEAKUP AND ALSO ON OUR D S D WEBPAGE.
WE'VE ALSO, UH, SENT EMAIL OUT TO ALL OUR, UH, WHAT WE CONSIDER OUR STAKEHOLDERS THAT WOULD HAVE SOME INTEREST IN THIS PROCESS.
UH, AGAIN, SO IT IS BEING FED OUT THROUGH DIFFERENT, I GUESS, SOCIAL MEDIA OUT AS WELL.
UH, AND SO WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE WORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO THE COMMUNITY AS WELL.
UH, THIS IS FRED ANS NOW THE 10TH IS THE LAST ONE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE UP THE THIRD, UH, THE, THE THIRD.
AGAIN, IT, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF, UH, AMENDMENTS THAT WE GET, UH, WE'RE CANCELING IT NOW TO GET PEOPLE SOME MORE TIME.
'CAUSE I DON'T WANNA CLOSE IT ON THE THIRD IF SOMETHING COMES AT A LATER DATE.
SO, UM, SO AGAIN, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY AMENDMENTS WE GET, WE MAY ADD ONE, WE MAY EXTEND IT, I'M NOT SURE.
BUT JUST WE'LL SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE ON, ON THE THIRD AT THAT POINT.
I THINK ON THE NEXT FULL BOARD OR THE FULL MEETING, THE NEXT ONE ON THE 10TH, I THINK WE'RE PRETTY MUCH GONNA BE DOING THE SAME THING.
I DON'T SEE US GETTING THROUGH ALL OF THEM ON THE 10TH.
'CAUSE THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT MORE COMMENTS OF THE PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T HERE.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT.
I, I'M HOPEFUL THAT, UH, THE 10TH, WE'LL GO OVER THE MINUTES FROM, UH, THE MEETING FROM THE 20, WAS IT THE 13TH AND TODAY'S MEETINGS.
SO, UH, AND THEN ALL THE COMMENTS OR THE DISCUSSION THAT WAS HAVE HAD TODAY AS WELL.
AND WE'LL MAKE A MOTION ON SOME OF THOSE.
I THINK A FEW OF THEM WERE, UH, THERE WAS A CONSENSUS ON SOME OF THEM.
I THINK SOME OF THEM WILL COME BACK FOR DISCUSSION.
UM, BUT IT'S ALL CONTINGENT UPON ON THE COMMITTEE.
LET ME ASK, UH, THERE WAS A FOURTH MEMBER SELECTED, UH, AS A NON-VOTING MEMBER.
UH, I DON'T BELIEVE I'VE SEEN THEM HERE TODAY.
UH, HAVE THEY BEEN CONTACTED OR ARE THEY THEY KNOW THEY'VE BEEN SELECTED.
SHE WAS, SHE WAS HERE, UH, UL WAS HERE LAST MEETING.
SHE EMAILED US EARLY THIS WEEK.
SHE UNFORTUNATELY WAS NOT GONNA MAKE IT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SO, UH, IT'S 3 21 AND WE CAN ADJOURN UNANIM AS YOU CAN.
DO WE HAVE TO VOTE? NO DECISION MAKING.
WELL YOU NEVER UNDERST DECISION.