* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] I'D LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. JUST BEFORE YOU GET OUTTA HERE, MIND. OH, INITIALLY ON THIS ONE, YOU'RE STILL OVER HERE. OH, NO, I FIXED IT. OKAY. AND I FIXED IT ON THE, THE RED. OKAY. SO JEREMY, CAN WE START BY A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? GOOD AFTERNOON. JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UH, MARK, BEFORE WE DO THE ROLL CALL, WE'LL DO OUR QUICK SPANISH INTERPRETER PERSON ANNOUNCEMENT. GOOD AFTERNOON. LOS. THE INTERPRET. THE INTERPRET. ALL RIGHT. ROLL CALL FOR QUORUM OF THE APPOINTED BOARD MEMBERS, OR SORRY, COMMITTEE MEMBERS. ADRIAN CONTRE, IF YOU'LL ENTER THE MIC, PLEASE. THANK YOU. PRESENT. UH, JOE LAOS. MARK ROSS. HERE. MICHAEL RUST, LIDDEL TOY. PETE LEY JACK UP MORE HERE. UH, WE HAVE THREE OUT OF THE FIVE PRIMARY PRESIDENT AND WE HAVE QUORUM. GO AHEAD AND, UH, ROLL CALL FOR THE D S D STAFF OF NON APPOINTED MEMBERS. BIANCA MALDONADO. PRESENT. GREG MANN PRESENT. COLLEEN WAPAC PRESENT. PATTY ZIONS PRESENT. HE GOT EVERYBODY'S NAME RIGHT? GIVE HIM A BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE. YES, MA'AM. . UM, SO I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO GO THIS IN TOO DEPTH, UH, TOO MUCH DEPTH, BUT THIS IS, ONCE AGAIN, FOR ANYBODY THAT'S WATCHING FROM HOME OR IF THEY'RE WATCHING THE RECORDING, THESE ARE THE LINKS. UH, YOU CAN GO TO THE, THE FIRST ONE THERE TO KIND OF SEE THE PROCESS, THE TRACKING, ANY CALENDAR DATES OF, UH, OF PENDING MEETINGS. UH, THE NEXT ONE IS THE LOCATION OF TRYING TO FIND ALL THE RECORDINGS IF YOU WANNA WATCH IT LIVE, BUT ALSO ALL THE, UH, THE SAVED RECORDINGS OF ALL THE DIFFERENT MEETINGS. YOU CAN GO TO THE MEETINGS, VIDEOS. AND THEN ALSO IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU'D LIKE TO PRESENT TO THIS COMMITTEE, IF YOU CAN'T BE HERE IN PERSON, UM, OR IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO COMMU, UH, COMMUNICATE WITH STAFF, YOU CAN EMAIL US AT SIGN CODE REVIEW@SANANTONIO.GOV. THANK YOU. CAN WE GET A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? OKAY. SO MOVED. SO THAT'S, UH, JACK UP. MORE MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES. NO ONE JACK UP. MORE APPROVING MINUTES. YEAH. OR MAKE A MOTION FOR HIM ANYWAYS. IS THERE A SECOND? ADRIAN? A SECOND ADRIAN. KNOW WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SECOND? I'LL SECOND. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, ADRIAN. IS THERE ANY, UH, ADDITIONS, CORRECTIONS, CONVERSATION, HEARING NONE. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? ABSTENTION MINUTES ARE APPROVED. UH, GEN I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. OH, GO AHEAD. OKAY. UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO IS JUST THE ONE THAT WE'RE GONNA CARRY OVER AS NEEDED. UH, BUT AT THIS TIME, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY FROM THE FULL BOARD THAT WOULD LIKE TO BE ADDED TO THE SIGN CO COMMITTEE. SO I THINK WE CAN TABLE THE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, AND WE'RE GONNA MOVE AROUND A LITTLE. CORRECT. SO, BECAUSE OF SOMEBODY'S, UH, WE DO HAVE A SPEAKER HERE THAT WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT ITEM NUMBER NINE, WHICH IS A NON-ACTION ITEM. UH, IT'S MORE OF AN INFORMATIVE INFORMATION AT THIS TIME, BUT HE HAS A PRESENTATION, SO WE'LL TURN IT OVER TO, UH, MR. DAVID LAC. THANK YOU. AND EVERYBODY'S WELCOME TO SIT AT THE TABLE AS LONG AS THERE'S SEATS. SO IF YOU WANT TO, MY NAME'S DAVID ERLICH. UH, MY ADDRESS IS TWO 16 SOUTH MILWAUKEE STREET, DENVER, COLORADO, 8 0 2 0 9. AND I AM GOING TO TALK TO YOU TODAY, UH, OR AT LEAST INTRODUCE A CONCEPT, WHICH I THINK, UM, I'M HOPING YOU FIND EXCITING, UM, AND INTERESTING. UH, BUT I [00:05:01] ALSO ENCOURAGE YOU, UH, IT'S, IT'S A SHORT PRESENTATION. IT'S REALLY FOCUSED ON GIVING YOU AN IDEA ABOUT WHAT IT'S ABOUT. UM, AND THEN, UH, BUT YOU CAN INTERRUPT AND JUMP IN AND ASK QUESTIONS DURING THE PROCESS. UH, DAVID, REAL QUICK, I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, UH, JUST SO THAT EVERYBODY KIND OF WHERE THIS IS COMING FROM IN OUR PACKETS. SO THIS HAS BEEN, UH, ONE OF THE REQUESTS SUBMITTED TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO FOR CONSIDERATION. IT'S ITEM EIGHT DASH ONE. SO, UH, SINCE IT'S ON THE NON AGENDA ITEMS, SO WE KIND OF HAVE THE, THE PACKET THAT WE PRESENTED TODAY, AGENDA ITEMS FIRST, AND THEN THE NEXT ROUND IS, AND THAT'LL BE AT THE TOP OF THAT. SO EIGHT DASH ONE IS ON THE TOP THERE. UM, SO AGAIN, DAVID ERLICH, THE THE GROUP I WORK FOR IS, IS A, IS A NON-PROFIT THAT I FORMED CALLED URBAN ACTIVATION INSTITUTE. AND I FORMED THAT BECAUSE ABOUT 12 YEARS AGO, I HELPED BUILD A ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT IN DOWNTOWN DENVER. UM, BASICALLY WE TOOK A SMALL AREA OF DOWNTOWN DENVER, CREATED AN OVERLAY ZONING THAT ALLOWED FOR COMMERCIAL SIGNAGE UNDER SOME SEVERE RESTRICTIONS. IT WAS ACTUALLY A COMPLETELY NEW WAY TO DO BUSINESS WITH OUTDOOR MEDIA. AND OVER THE LAST 12 YEARS, IT'S BEEN A, A GREAT SUCCESS IN DOWNTOWN. WE'VE REINVESTED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO ART AND CULTURE. UH, WE'VE DONE A BUNCH OF GREAT PROGRAMMING, UM, AND THIS MODEL HAS BECOME VERY ATTRACTIVE AND HAS BEEN ADOPTED BY CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. SO, I JUST WANNA TELL YOU ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT. IT'S BASICALLY, HOW DO YOU CREATE AND WHAT ARE THE QUALITIES OF AN URBAN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT, AND DOES THAT POTENTIALLY HAVE SOME BENEFITS FOR DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO? SO ON THE NEXT SLIDE, THE CONCEPT HERE AGAIN, IS OVERLAY ZONING. SO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS TAKING A SMALL AREA SPECIFICALLY ONLY DOWNTOWN IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO AND DOING AN OVERLAY ZONE. SO THIS IS ESSENTIALLY ADDITIONAL RIGHTS FOR OUTDOOR MEDIA COMPANIES TO HELP YOU BUILD AN ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT DOWNTOWN. UM, ESSENTIALLY THE ENTITY IS GOVERNED BY THE CITY OR A BID. UM, AND WHAT ARE THE, THE, THE KEY CHARACTERISTICS ARE YOU CREATE THIS ZONE, BUT THE POINT OF THIS IS NOT TO SIMPLY ADD MORE SIGNS TO DOWNTOWN. THE POINT OF THIS IS TO GENERATE REVENUE AND ACTIVITY AND LIGHT AND VITALITY. SO HOW DO YOU DO THAT? SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU DO IS YOU CREATE A ZONING. IT'S OPEN TO ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO PARTICIPATE, BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THEY HAVE TO LIVE UP TO OR THEY CANNOT PARTICIPATE. SO AGAIN, IT'S REALLY A FLIPPING OF, OF WHAT OUTDOOR MEDIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN. GENERALLY IN THE PAST, REALLY FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS, OUTDOOR MEDIA WAS ALLOWED TO GET A LEASE AND PUT UP A SIGN, AND THERE WAS VERY LITTLE SORT OF CITY CONTROL OR DOWNTOWN STAKE STAKEHOLDER CONTROL. THIS CHANGES THAT COMPLETELY, IT ACTUALLY FLIPS IT. THIS TAKES OUTDOOR MEDIA AND MAKES IT A TOOL FOR URBAN AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SO BASICALLY, YOU CREATE A DISTRICT. THE DISTRICT IS RUN BY EITHER THE CITY OR DOWNTOWN BID. IT'S VERY FOCUSED AND IT'S VERY LIMITED. SO AGAIN, YOU'LL HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF LOCATIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED. 10 LOCATIONS, 15 LOCATIONS. IN DENVER, IT'S UNLIMITED, BUT WE HAVE ABOUT 20 AND ATLANTA, THIS HAS BEEN ADOPTED INTO A SIMILAR NUMBER. BALTIMORE IS A LOT SMALLER. SO AGAIN, YOU HAVE A FOCUSED LIMITED AREA. NOW, AGAIN, YOU GO TO THE MEDIA COMPANIES AND YOU SAY, LOOK, YOU CAN PARTICIPATE, BUT HERE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS YOU HAVE TO GIVE US. THE DISTRICT COULD BE THE CITY, LET'S SAY IT STAYS IN THE DEPARTMENT OF ART AND CULTURE. ANY SIGN THAT YOU PUT UP, YOU HAVE TO GIVE US 15% OF GROSS REVENUE FROM DOLLAR ONE. SO ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU MAKE RIGHT BACK INTO THE CITY FOR ART AND CULTURAL PROGRAMMING. ADDITIONALLY, WHEN YOU PUT UP THESE DIGITAL SIGNS, THEY'RE VERY POWERFUL MEDIA PLATFORMS. AND 20% OF THE TIME ON EVERY SINGLE DIGITAL SIGN HAS TO COME TO THE DISTRICT FOR OUR USE. NOW, IN DENVER, WE FOCUSED ON PUTTING A TON OF DIGITAL ART ON THOSE SIGNS. WE HAVE A VERY VIBRANT YOUNG ART COMMUNITY, AND IT'S BEEN A GREAT OUTLET FOR THEM. THAT'S REALLY UP TO SAN ANTONIO TO DECIDE. BUT AGAIN, THE KEY CHARACTERISTICS OF THE DISTRICT ARE A REVENUE SHARE AND A TIMESHARE. SO WHAT DOES THE REVENUE SHARE MEAN SPECIFICALLY FOR SAN ANTONIO? WE'LL GET TO THIS IN A SECOND IN SPECIFICS, BUT I'LL SORT OF, I'LL SORT OF GET TO THAT BASED ON OTHER CITIES THAT I'M WORKING ON, AND BASED ON 12 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE OF RUNNING THE DENVER THEATER DISTRICT, YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING ONCE. THIS IS MATURE OF AROUND $750,000 A YEAR GOING TO THE DISTRICT FOR REINVESTMENT INTO DOWNTOWN. AGAIN, ART PROGRAMMING, CULTURAL PROGRAMMING, ADDITIONAL LIGHT. UM, BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE THIS ENDS. SO EVERY CITY I WORK ON, WE SORT OF TAKE ALL THE BEST PRACTICES FROM THE OTHERS AND APPLY IT TO THE NEXT CITY. SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SAN ANTONIO, WHAT ELSE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? WELL, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LIMITED NUMBER OF LOCATIONS, AND YOU CANNOT HAVE IT ANYWHERE OTHER THAN IN DOWNTOWN, YOU CREATE AN EVALUATION MECHANISM. AND ONE OF THE EVALUATION STANDARDS IS WHAT DO THE SIGNS LOOK LIKE? SO WE WILL NOT ACCEPT SIGNS THAT ARE NOT AESTHETICALLY PLEASING. SO THE CITY COMES UP WITH AESTHETIC [00:10:01] STANDARDS, AND IF THE MEDIA COMPANY DOESN'T LIVE UP TO THAT, THEY CAN'T PUT UP THE SIGN. SO WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF AN AESTHETIC STANDARD? ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE THINKING ABOUT FOR SAN ANTONIO IS MAYBE THE FRAME OF EVERY SINGLE SIGN IS DESIGNED BY A LOCAL ARTIST. SO AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU DON'T EVER SEE IN THE OUTDOOR MEDIA WORLD. IF YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE HIGHWAY, YOU SEE A RECTANGLE. THESE ARE NOT RECTANGLES. THESE ARE INTENDED TO BE MEDIA PLATFORMS THAT REPRESENT THE COMMUNITY. SO ANOTHER EXAMPLE FOR SAN ANTONIO THAT'S NEVER BEEN DONE ANYWHERE IS THE SIGNS CAN BE CARBON NEUTRAL. SO WHETHER THAT'S THROUGH ENGINEERING OR CARBON OFFSETS, UH, AND THE SUNSET STRIP OF WEST HOLLYWOOD, SEVERAL OF THE NEW SIGNS ARE CARBON NEUTRAL. I'VE TALKED TO MEDIA COMPANIES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND I SAID, WELL, WHAT IF ALL THE SIGNS IN A DISTRICT HAD TO BE CARBON NEUTRAL? AND I SAID, WELL, IT'S WORTH IT FOR US TO BE DOWNTOWN. WE'LL LIVE UP TO THAT. SO AGAIN, AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN SORT OF SEE UP THERE SOME OF THE EXAMPLES, BUT THESE ARE NOT YOUR TYPICAL SIGNS. SO YOU BASICALLY CREATE AN OVERLAY ZONING. YOU MAKE SURE THERE'S A REVENUE STREAM COMING TO THE CITY. YOU MAKE SURE THERE'S A TIMESHARE COMING TO THE CITY, AND THEN YOU CREATE STANDARDS FOR THE MEDIA COMPANIES TO LIVE UP TO THAT MAKE YOU COMFORTABLE. SO VIRTUALLY ANYTHING THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN COME UP WITH. FOR EXAMPLE, AGAIN, WHAT IF THE SIGN'S TOO BRIGHT? WHAT HAPPENS? WELL, IF YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE HIGHWAY AND THE SIGN'S TOO BRIGHT, IT COULD TAKE MONTHS TO GET FIXED. SO WHAT WE DO IN THIS CASE IS UNDER THE ZONING ITSELF, WE REQUIRE THE MEDIA COMPANIES TO SIGN A SERVICES AGREEMENT, AND THAT GOVERNS THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DISTRICT. AND IN THAT AGREEMENT, WE SAY, IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH LIGHT BRIGHTNESS, YOU HAVE TO FIX IT IN SIX HOURS. YOU HAVE TO FIX IT IN FOUR HOURS. YOU HAVE TO NOTIFY ALL THE RESIDENTS THAT HAVE BEEN AFFECTED WITHIN THREE HOURS. IF YOU DON'T, THAT WILL AFFECT YOUR PERMIT. SO THE MEDIA COMPANIES ALWAYS COMPLY WITH THAT 'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA RISK THEIR PERMIT. AGAIN, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE. UM, THE OTHER KEY POINT I WANNA MAKE BEFORE MOVING ON TO THE NEXT SLIDE, THIS IS COMPLETELY PRIVATELY FUNDED. THERE'S NO NEW TAXES, THERE'S NO TIFFS, THERE'S NO PUBLIC MONEY AT ALL. AGAIN, THE INTENTION HERE IS HOW DO WE GENERATE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR SAN ANTONIO TO REINVEST IN DOWNTOWN THROUGH ART AND CULTURE PROGRAMMING, THROUGH HISTORICAL PROGRAMMING, BUT NOT COST THE TAXPAYERS ANYTHING. SO AGAIN, THIS IS A PRIVATELY FUNDED MEDIA COMPANY FUNDED, UH, EFFORT THAT THE CITY AND THE COMMUNITY BENEFITS FROM. UM, HAS THIS DONE, BEEN DONE BEFORE? EVERYTHING I'M TELLING YOU HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE. SO AGAIN, DENVER THEATER DISTRICT HAS BEEN OPERATING FOR 12 YEARS. UH, WE HAVE A LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM THE HEAD OF ARTS AND VENUES THAT WE CAN SHARE WITH YOU. YOU CAN CALL THE MAYOR, UH, THE MAYOR OF DENVER, ACTUALLY APPROVED OF THE DENVER THEATER DISTRICT NEWS ON CITY COUNCIL. IT'S A BIG FAN, UM, ATLANTA. SO ATLANTA LAUNCHED ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO, AND IT'S BEEN EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL. WE HAVE A LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM THAT. WEST HOLLYWOOD IS GOING DIGITAL. SO YOU ALL KNOW ABOUT THE SUNSET STRIP AND THEY'RE NOW GOING DIGITAL. AND I'LL SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES. SO THAT EXAMPLE ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS A, IS A SIGN OWNED BY ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE ROCK BAND DEVO. AND IT SHOWS YOU THE AESTHETIC QUALITIES THAT THEY PUSH FOR. THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE IS ACTUALLY VERY IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND. THAT'S A SIGN AT THE WESTERN HOTEL IN DOWNTOWN DENVER. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE IS A DIGITAL, THE TOP SIGN IS A DIGITAL WITH SOME DIGITAL ART ON IT THAT WRAPS AROUND THE BUILDING BELOW. IT IS A STATIC, AND THE NEXT TO IS A STATIC. NOW, THE REASON THOSE THREE SIGNS ARE TOGETHER IS BECAUSE IN THE DISTRICT, WE TOLD THE MEDIA COMPANIES, WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE SIGNS FIT IN ARCHITECTURALLY WITH THE BUILDING AND THE SURROUNDING AREA. AND SO YOU CAN'T SEE IT IN THAT PICTURE, BUT THERE'S A BIG TOWER IN DENVER CALLED THE D N F TOWER, THAT SIGN ON THE RIGHT THAT GOES UP THE BUILDING REFLECTS THE VERTICALITY OF THE TOWER. SO AGAIN, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU WOULD SAY AS THE CITY'S EVALUATING THESE SIGNS, AND AGAIN, REMEMBER, MEDIA COMPANIES DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT UP THESE SIGNS. THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH A CITY PROCESS, EVEN WHEN THE DISTRICT'S PASSED. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS YOU ASK THE MEDIA COMPANIES IS EXPLAIN TO US HOW THIS FITS IN WITH OUR ARCHITECTURE, WITH OUR DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO ARCHITECTURE. AND THEY HAVE TO DO THAT OR THEY CAN'T GO FORWARD. UH, BALTIMORE ALSO JUST, UH, PASSED A DISTRICT. UM, SO, SO WHY DO THIS AGAIN? I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY NOT TO DO THIS ON THE SURFACE, RIGHT? SO, SO PEOPLE DON'T WANT ANY SIGNS. I UNDERSTAND THAT PERSPECTIVE. I ACTUALLY DO NOT WORK ON ANY SIGNED DEALS UNLESS THEY'RE WITHIN THIS FORMAT. I'M NOT A SIGNED GUY. I I USED TO BE IN SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT. I WAS A LAWYER THAT ESCAPED FROM A LAW FIRM BEFORE THAT. UM, I STILL FLINCH A LITTLE BIT WHEN I MENTION THAT, BUT IN ANY EVENT, I'M NOT A SIGNED GUY. I HAVE NEVER WORKED ON A PROJECT THAT DIDN'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT COMMUNITY BENEFIT TO THE SIGNS, AND I WON'T. SO IF SAN ANTONIO CAME BACK TO ME, I KNOW THIS WON'T HAPPEN, BUT IF SAN ANTONIO COMES BACK AND SAYS, HEY, WE LOVE THIS IDEA, BUT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT ALL THAT COMMUNITY STUFF, LET'S JUST PUT UP MORE SIGNS. I WOULD NOT BE YOUR GUY. I DO THIS. I PUT MY NAME ON THIS BECAUSE DENVER'S GENERATED A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR LOCAL ART AND LOCAL CULTURAL PROGRAMMING, AND I'M VERY PROUD OF THAT. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD BE WANT TO BE INVOLVED WITH IN SAN ANTONIO. AND SO, AGAIN, ON THE NEXT SLIDE, WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS? WHY, WHY, WHY DO THIS? WHY, WHY ARE SOME OF THE POSITIVES? AGAIN, REMEMBER, THIS IS VERY CONTROLLED. EACH STEP OF THE WAY IS CONTROLLED BY THE CITY. THIS DOESN'T GET PASSED AND THERE'S SIGNS EVERYWHERE. WE'RE ALSO TALKING [00:15:01] ABOUT ALL OF DOWNTOWN AND POTENTIALLY 10 TO 20 LOCATIONS. SO AGAIN, IT'S NOT LIKE A TIME SQUARE. IT'S SORT OF THE OPPOSITE. IT'S VERY STRATEGIC, IT'S VERY FOCUSED, BUT IT GENERATES A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF REVENUE FOR THE DISTRICT, FOR THE CITY ITSELF. AGAIN, APPROXIMATELY $750,000 A YEAR TO THE DISTRICT. NOW, THE CITY WILL ALSO GENERATE REVENUE, POTENTIALLY AS A LANDLORD. SO AGAIN, 15% OF GROSS REVENUE GOES TO THE DISTRICT FOR PURE COMMUNITY PURPOSES. THEN THE MEDIA COMPANIES GO OUT AND THEY COMPETE FOR LEASES WITH EITHER PRIVATE ENTITIES OR THE CITY. SO IF THE CITY DOES AN R F P, THEY'LL ADDITIONALLY MAKE ANYWHERE FROM 15 TO 25% OF GROSS REVENUE OFF THESE SIGNS DIRECTLY INTO CITY COFFERS. SO WHEN YOU COMBINE THAT, YOU'RE IN FAR EX EXCESS OF A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR FOR THE CITY. NOW, AGAIN, IN DENVER, ART AND CULTURE HAS BEEN VERY POSITIVE. SO PUTTING ART AND CULTURAL, UH, ACTIVITIES, PROMOTIONS ON THE STREET, BUT IT'S ULTIMATELY UP TO SAN ANTONIO AS TO WHAT TO DO WITH THE MONEY. AGAIN, MY INITIAL RECOMMENDATION IS ENLIVENING THE STREETS WITH LIGHT AND ART AND CULTURE MAKES PEOPLE COMFORTABLE. IT MAKES THEM FEEL MORE SECURE. IT KEEPS THEM DOWNTOWN LONGER. THAT HELPS TAX REVENUE. BUT AGAIN, YOU'LL SHAPE THAT HOWEVER YOU WANT. UM, SO THERE'S A, A LANDLORD SHARE FOR REVENUE. THERE'S A TIMES SHARE. THE OTHER THINGS TO THINK ABOUT ARE YOU GET 20%, YOU BEING THE COMMUNITY GET 20% OF THE TIME ON THESE SIGNS. THAT'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME AND YOU DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH IT, AND YOU CAN DO MULTIPLE THINGS. SO YOU MAKE IT A PLATFORM FOR ART, BUT YOU ALSO MAKE IT A PLATFORM FOR PROMOTING LOCAL NONPROFITS. NOW AGAIN, THAT'S A REALLY POSITIVE THING FOR NONPROFITS FROM ALL OVER SAN ANTONIO, NOT JUST DOWNTOWN, BUT FOR ALL OVER SAN ANTONIO TO GET A PROMOTIONAL PLATFORM FOR FREE IN THE HEART OF DOWNTOWN IS SIGNIFICANT. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT COULD COME UP IS, WELL, LOOK, IT'S NOT EASY TO RUN A NONPROFIT THESE DAYS. I DON'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO PUT TOGETHER AN AD PROMOTING MYSELF. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A LEGITIMATE CONCERN. SO I WENT TO ONE OF THE BIGGEST MEDIA COMPANIES IN THE COUNTRY, OUT FRONT MEDIA. I SAID, LOOK, THIS IS AN ISSUE. IT DOESN'T HELP A NONPROFIT. IT DOESN'T HELP THE CITY TO GET TIME IF THEY CAN'T USE IT, IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO PUT TOGETHER THE, THE PROMOTIONAL MATERIALS. AND OUT FRONT SAID, WELL, WE HAVE IN EVERY REGION OF THE COUNTRY AN ARTS GROUP THAT CREATES CONTENT AND WE WILL DO THAT FOR THE NONPROFIT FOR FREE. AND I SAID, OKAY, DONE. THAT'S NOW AN OBLIGATION. UM, BUT AGAIN, THINK ABOUT THAT. SO A NONPROFIT WANTS TO GET THE WORD OUT. THEY CAN GET FREE TIME ON THESE SIGNS, AND THEY CAN GO TO ONE OF THE MEDIA COMPANIES AND WE WOULD MAKE IT APPLY TO ALL OF THEM AND SAY, HEY, HERE'S WHAT I WANT TO PROMOTE. WE HAVE A, A, THE JUNETEENTH, UH, PARADE COMING UP. OR WE SIMPLY WANT TO SAY, TELL PEOPLE, HEY, WE'RE THIS REALLY COOL MUSEUM IN A SMALL NEIGHBORHOOD THAT NO ONE'S HEARD, HEARD ABOUT OUT FRONT. OR THE MEDIA COMPANY WILL CREATE THE CONTENT AND THEN SHOW IT. IT'S WORTH HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OVER THE COURSE OF TIME. SO THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT PLATFORM. AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT JUST STARTING CULTURE OVER COVID. IN DENVER, WE DID A TON OF COVID MESSAGING, AND AGAIN, IT WAS MORE JUST UPLIFTING, POSITIVE MESSAGING, LIKE STAY TOGETHER, CARRY ON, ET CETERA. UM, AGAIN, THAT'S UP TO YOU GUYS. I THINK FOR SAN ANTONIO, AT LEAST WHAT I'M LEARNING IS HAVING HISTORICAL MESSAGING WOULD BE REALLY INTERESTING. I MEAN, THE HISTORY IN THIS TOWN JUST HITS YOU EVERYWHERE AND YOU CAN DEVOTE TIME ON THESE SIGNS TO TELLING TOURISTS LIKE ME, ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS I'M SEEING. AND WHAT'S THE CONTEXT OF THAT? 20% OF THE TIME IS A LOT. UM, THE OTHER THING I WOULD TELL YOU IS THAT IT'S A FREE MARKETING PLATFORM FOR THE CITY ITSELF. SO NOT JUST THE CITY, BUT VISIT SAN ANTONIO. SO AGAIN, SIMILARLY, WE WERE TALKING TO A CONVENTION CENTER IN BALTIMORE AND THEY SAID, WELL, WHAT, WHAT IF I WANNA PROMOTE BALTIMORE? AND I SAID, LOOK, LET ME THINK ABOUT IT. I WENT BACK TO OUT FRONT AGAIN, I SAID, HEY, YOU WORK ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. WOULD YOU THROW IN TIME IN OTHER CITIES AS PART OF THESE DEALS AS PART OF THIS 20%? AND THEY SAID, YES. SO VISIT SAN ANTONIO NOW HAS A NATIONAL PLATFORM WHERE THEY CAN GO AND AS PART OF THIS DEAL, THEY CAN SAY, VISIT SAN ANTONIO, COME FOR, COME FOR THE FINAL FOUR, ALL THAT STUFF. UM, THE LAST THING I JUST WANNA TELL YOU, WHICH IS VERY RELEVANT TO SAN ANTONIO AND NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO THAT MANY CITIES, AND I I USED TO WORK FOR STAN KRONKE AT, AT PEPSI CENTER, UH, AVALANCHE NUGGETS AND ALL THAT. AND WE WOULD GO AFTER BIG EVENTS LIKE YOU GUYS DO. SO SAN ANTONIO IS ONE OF THE PREMIER, AS YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE PREMIER DESTINATIONS FOR THE FINAL FOUR FOR SIGNIFICANT EVENTS. IT'S A COMPETITIVE WORLD THAT YOU GUYS ARE IN, AND THEN YOU DO A GREAT JOB. ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT COMES UP THOUGH, I'LL TELL YOU EVERY TIME YOU BID ON A BIG EVENT, COULD BE THE FINAL FOUR. IT COULD BE A CONVENTION, IS THE GROUP YOU'RE TALKING TO SAYS WE CANNOT HAVE GORILLA ADVERTISING THAT P****S OFF OUR SPONSORS WHEN THEY COME TO YOUR DOWNTOWN. SO WE CREATED THE CONCEPT UNDER THESE DISTRICTS CALLED THE CLEAN ZONE. THE CLEAN ZONE MEANS THAT ONCE A YEAR YOU CAN GO TO THE MEDIA COMPANIES AND SAY, HEY, CLEAN YOUR SIGNS. MAKE THEM BLANK FOR WHEN THE FINAL FOUR IS HERE. AND YOU CAN ONLY SELL TO NON-COMPETITIVE SPONSORS. SO IF THE FINAL FOUR HAS A COKE SPONSORSHIP, YOU CAN'T SELL TO PEPSI AND P**S THEM OFF BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA TELL THEM THAT ON THE FRONT END. [00:20:01] SO WHEN WE'RE BIDDING ON THE FINAL FOUR FOR 2030, WE'RE GONNA SAY THAT ALL THESE SIGNS IN THE DISTRICT ARE POSITIVE FOR YOUR EVENT, NOT NEGATIVE. AND IT'S GREAT FOR THE MEDIA COMPANIES BECAUSE THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE PREMIUM SALES. BUT IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE YOU'RE INVITING AND YOU'RE GETTING, AND YOU GUYS ALREADY DO THIS, THESE SIGNIFICANT EVENTS, AND YOU WANNA STAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE IN TERMS OF COMPETING FOR THOSE EVENTS. SO AGAIN, THIS IS AN AMAZING TOWN THAT PUNCHES ABOVE ITS WEIGHT IN TERMS OF SPORTS AND NATIONAL CONVENTIONS. THIS JUST HELPS. IT'S JUST A, A ANOTHER ARROW IN YOUR QUIVER TO DO THAT. UM, SO AGAIN, I THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, I'LL WRAP UP. I I'D LOVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS CONCEPTUALLY. WHAT, WHAT I'M, I'M HERE TO DO IS I WANNA START SOCIALIZING THE IDEA WITH SAN ANTONIO. I THINK SAN ANTONIO IS A GREAT MARKET. IT'S A PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD EFFORT TO IMPLEMENT. YOU HAVE AN OVERLAY ZONING STATUTE, THE STATUTE CREATES, AND I'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED DRAFTS, WHICH I'M HAPPY TO SHARE WITH ANYBODY. THE STATUTE BASICALLY SAYS, WITHIN THIS AREA, NO MORE THAN 15, 20 LOCATIONS. YOU CAN HAVE COMMERCIAL SIGNAGE IF THE SIGN GOES THROUGH THE STRICT PROCESS GOVERNED BY THE CITY. SO YOU HAVE A STATUTE THAT SAYS THAT. THE STATUTE ALSO SAYS, IF YOU WANNA UNDERSTAND MORE, READ THE SIGN PLAN. THE SIGN PLAN WILL TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS DISTRICT. IT'LL HAVE ALL THE PRIORITIES, IT'LL HAVE THE, THE, THE STRATEGIC GOALS. IT'LL HAVE THE TYPES OF SIGNS THAT ARE FAVORED. AND THEN WITHIN THE SIGN PLAN ITSELF, IT SAYS ALL MEDIA COMPANIES THAT WANT TO PARTICIPATE ARE WELCOME, BUT THEY MUST SIGN A SERVICES AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY OUTLINING THEIR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS. THEN YOU HAVE A CONTRACT. SO EVERY MEDIA COMPANY THAT GETS ASSIGNED, AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT YOU POINT TO WHEN THE LIGHTS ARE A LITTLE BIT TOO BRIGHT AND SOMEONE FROM ONE OF THE DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS IS COMPLAINING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT THREE MONTHS TO FIX IT. YOU GO TO THE CONTRACT, YOU CALL UP THE MEETING COMPANY, YOU SAY, HEY, BY CONTRACT YOU HAVE TO FIX THIS IN THREE HOURS, OR YOUR PERMIT IS IN JEOPARDY, IT WILL GET FIXED IN THREE HOURS. SO IT'S REALLY JUST A THREE-TIERED STRUCTURE. OKAY. SO I DON'T MEAN, SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT I, IT IT'S NOT AN ACTION ITEM AND IT'S GONNA REQUIRE A WHOLE LOT MORE STUDY BEFORE IT GETS TO THAT POINT. IF IT DOES. MY, MY QUESTION TO THE GROUP IS, DOES ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS? AND IF YOU CAN JUST BE MORE BROAD IN NATURE, BECAUSE IF, IF WE DECIDE TO TACKLE THIS, WE'RE GONNA PUT A WORKING GROUP TOGETHER TO, TO COME BACK TO THE COMMITTEE. SO I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS. LARRY, WHEN YOU SAY ALL OF DOWNTOWN, AND YOU GOTTA PRESS AND HOLD THE BUTTON? NO, PRESS AND HOLD. YEAH. OH, WHEN YOU SAY ALL OF DOWNTOWN, ESPECIALLY IN DENVER AND, UM, ATLANTA, I ASSUME YOU DON'T, YOU'RE NOT INCLUDING THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN THOSE CITIES? NO. GREAT QUESTION. SO AGAIN, IN, IN DENVER, I'LL BE SPECIFIC. IN DENVER, THE DISTRICT IS REALLY ONLY ABOUT, UH, FOUR BLOCKS BY EIGHT BLOCKS. SO IT'S A VERY SMALL PORTION OF DOWNTOWN ATLANTA'S A MUCH BIGGER PORTION INCLUDES CENTENNIAL PARK, ET CETERA. SO IN DENVER, FOR EXAMPLE, WE DO NOT ALLOW SOUNDS ON HIS, UH, ALLOW SIGNS ON HISTORIC FACADES, ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS. UM, SO NO, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY A, UM, A WINNOWING OUT OF, OF, OF ELEMENTS THAT ARE NOT APPROPRIATE FOR SIGNS THAT NO, NOBODY WANTS TO SEE A SIGN ON A, ON A HISTORIC BUILDING. AND, AND SO THE OTHER CITIES CONSISTENTLY DO NOT ALLOW THAT. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? PATTY? AN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, MR. GOTTMAN SAN ANTONIO HAS 36 SQUARE MILES OF HISTORIC DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO, BIANCA? NO, I THINK I'M PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THAT. YES. BIANCA, I GUESS, WHERE DO I START? BIG PICTURE, I APPRECIATE YOUR PRESENTATION. WHAT I FEEL IS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BIGGER PICTURE IS UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS ALREADY GOING ON DOWNTOWN TODAY WITH RESPECT TO PUBLIC ART, PARTICULARLY IN VACANT BUILDINGS. AND WHAT, UM, LIGHTING IS ALREADY UNDERWAY AND HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION THROUGH A OVERLAY PROCESS THAT PROTECTS THE INTEGRITY OF OUR DOWNTOWN, OUR RIVERWALK, OUR UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE. UM, I'M NOT AWARE THAT DENVER OR ATLANTA HAS THAT ELEMENT IN THEIR CITY BECAUSE THEIR CITIES ARE 163 AND 174 YEARS RESPECTIVELY COMPARED TO SAN ANTONIO, WHICH IS 3 0 2. UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT OUR OVERALL DOWNTOWN, NOT ONLY DO WE HAVE, UH, LANDMARK PROPERTIES, WE ALSO HAVE VIEW SHED PROTECTION OF OUR ALAMO. WE ALSO HAVE OVERLAY TO OUR RIVER WALK, UM, IN ADDITION TO THE TWO ELEMENTS THAT I MENTIONED IN THE BEGINNING ABOUT LIGHTING STANDARDS ALREADY AND OUR, IN OUR DOWNTOWN CORE. AND I FEEL YOUR PRESENTATION TALKS AS THOUGH IT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT, OR IT DOESN'T [00:25:01] TAKE ANY OF THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. AND ALL OF THOSE ELEMENTS THAT I MENTIONED HAVE EXTREME SIGNAGE RESTRICTIONS, WHICH IS NOT ADDRESSING YOUR PRESENTATION. AND THERE IS SO MUCH THAT'S DONE TO TODAY WITH THE COMMITMENT THAT PEOPLE ASK AND THE CODIFIED DEVELOPMENT OF HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES TO ENSURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING TODAY DOWNTOWN. SO FOR THE INVESTMENT AND THE HISTORICAL TIMEFRAME THAT'S BEEN PUT INTO PROTECT OUR DOWNTOWN, THIS IS COUNTERINTUITIVE TO THE PRESENT, THE PRESERVATION OF OUR DOWNTOWN, THE INVESTMENTS THAT ARE BEING MADE IN HEMISPHERE PARK, IN, UM, MAINE PLAZA, YOU, UH, LAVATA, YOU START THINKING OF TRAVIS PARK. IT'S NOT JUST BUILDINGS, IT'S PLACES, IT'S SPATIAL ORIENTATIONS. AND WHILE YOU WANT LIGHTING FROM AN ADVERTISEMENT THAT WILL CONTAIN A PORTION OF ART TO GENERATE ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR ARTS, I MEAN, I MEAN, WE CAN HIRE ONE PERSON AND DO SOME MORE ENFORCEMENT WITH SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND GET A MILLION DOLLARS FOR HOT TAX. AND THAT'S ARTS AND CULTURE. SO I'M, I'M THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA GET MORE MONEY FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND FOR FOR ARTS, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE HOT TAX GOES FOR. SO I THINK, HEY, IF WE CAN ENFORCE MORE SHORT TERM RENTALS, WE KNOW WE'RE NOT CAPTURING ALL THE PEOPLE PERMITTED. BUT MY POINT IS, I UNDERSTAND YOUR END OBJECTION. HOWEVER, THE VEHICLE IN WHICH YOU WANNA GET THERE, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE ARE THE RIGHT PLACE TO START THE CONVERSATION, TO BE QUITE HONEST, BECAUSE OF THE DOWNTOWN, UH, ZONING, THE RIVER, UH, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OVERLAYS THE LANDMARKS AND THE PARKS THAT ARE WITHIN OUR DOWNTOWN, THOSE ARE A LOT OF COMPLEXITIES. OH, DON'T LET ME FORGET OUR UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE SITE TOO. MM-HMM. . SO WHILE THEY'RE NOT THAT BUILDING, IT HAS A PERIPHERAL IMPACT. AND SO WITH THAT, THAT'S WHY I THAT THANK, THANK YOU. NO, WHAT I'D LIKE TO RESERVE IT IS IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, WE'RE NOT HERE TO DISCUSS RIGHT NOW, GOOD, BAD, UGLY. PERFECT. BUT I, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS THAT WILL, AS WE MOVE THROUGH AT A LATER DATE, SOME KIND OF DISCUSSION ON THIS, EITHER UP OR DOWN TO, JUST BEFORE HE HAS TO CATCH A PLANE TO GO BACK TO, UH, DENVER, IS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO SAY? ANDREW PEREZ, I LIKE YOUR IDEA. UM, I JUST THINK THE HISTORICAL ASPECT OF IT IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS YOU NEED TO LOOK AT ANOTHER PSYCH. I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT OF ANOTHER IDEA WHERE SOMEWHERE MAYBE I 10 WEST OR SOMETHING OR OTHER, OR SOUTH TOWN, WE HAVE THAT BECAUSE IT'S A BEAUTIFUL THING. WE NEED TO KEEP UP WITH TECHNOLOGY AND AREAS THAT ARE NOT HISTORIC. 'CAUSE THEY DON'T ALLOW DIGITAL SIGNAGE NOR OFF-PREMISE ADVERTISING, WHICH IS ALL WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT IT'S A GREAT IDEA. I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT A DIFFERENT AREA AND, UH, THANK YOU. OKAY. I'M SORRY, COULD I, QUESTIONS? QUESTION. QUESTION. OKAY. HAS THE, UM, APPLICANT CONSIDERED OTHER LOCATIONS OTHER THAN, THAN DOWNTOWN? UH, HAPPY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION AND TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ANSWER. WHAT WAS SORT OF THE FIRST QUESTION. THE FIRST QUESTION I THINK THAT YOU STATED IN A SENSE WAS, AGAIN, THIS IS A BASIC PRESENTATION AND JUST LIKE THE POINT OF THE DISTRICT ART AND CULTURE HAS TO BE SHAPED BY SAN ANTONIO, NOT BY SOME GUY FROM DENVER. SO DOES THE STRUCTURE AND THE WAY IT INTERACTS WITH ALL THE OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS YOU'VE DONE HERE. SO I, I ESSENTIALLY AGREE COMPLETELY WITH YOUR STATEMENT, WHICH IS THIS IS JUST THE STARTING POINT AND IT HAS TO BE SHAPED. I I, I WASN'T GONNA BE PRESUMPTUOUS AND SAY, HEY, I'M GONNA LEARN ALL ABOUT SAN ANTONIO IN THREE WEEKS. COME DOWN AND TELL THEM HOW IT'S GONNA FIT IN WITH ALL THE DIFFERENT UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS. I'M NOT DOING THAT. I WILL WORK WITH YOU. BUT YOU GUYS, THE INTENTION IS SAN ANTONIO DOES THAT. SO I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY. UM, YOU KNOW, AND I'M, I APOLOGIZE. I I AND THE SECOND QUESTION THAT YOU JUST ASKED, ARE THERE SITES, I'M SORRY. SO LOCATIONS, LOCATIONS WITHIN THE CITY? NO, SIMILARLY, SO, AGAIN, TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, THE FOCUS, UM, ON ALL THESE DISTRICTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS DOWNTOWNS BECAUSE OF THE, THE NATURAL VIBRANCY OF A DOWNTOWN. YOU'RE NOT GONNA PUT LIGHT IN A RESIDENTIAL AREA, ET CETERA. SO THE SHORT ANSWER IS CURRENTLY NO. THE FIRST FOCUS WAS DOWNTOWN. 'CAUSE THAT SEEMED TO BE THE LOGICAL PLACE TO START. HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY. SO, UH, BEFORE IDENTIFY WHO YOU ARE AND BALTAZAR, SIR, I'M AN ATTORNEY HERE IN TOWN. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION. SO WHAT DOES THIS COMMITTEE CONSIDERED DOWNTOWN? IS, IS ST. PAUL SQUARE CONSIDERED DOWNTOWN? 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, THERE'S, PEOPLE CONSIDER DOWNTOWN BETWEEN 37 AND AND 35, RIGHT? IS ST. PAUL, UH, SQUARE CONSIDERED DOWNTOWN FOR THIS BOARD? OR THIS, OR THIS COMMITTEE [00:30:01] IS, UH, U T S A IS U T S A. THE U T S A AREA ON THE WEST SIDE CONSIDERED DOWNTOWN. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DON'T CONSIDER THAT DOWNTOWN. I'D LIKE TO GET THIS COMMITTEE'S IMPRESSION OF WHAT YOU CONSIDER DOWNTOWN. YEAH, AT THIS POINT, I DON'T THINK WE KNOW WHAT IS EXACTLY DOWNTOWN. WE'RE NOT HERE TO HAVE A, WHAT I CALL A PRO AND CON DISCUSSION ON THIS. THAT WILL COME IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO TAKE IT UP AT A LATER TIME. THIS IS JUST INFORMATIONAL. SO THE ANSWER IS, IT COULD BE PUT ANYWHERE THAT IF THIS GROUP WANTS TO RECOMMEND IT IN THE RECOMMENDED AND THE COUNCIL APPROVES IT ANYWHERE IN SAN ANTONIO, THAT YOU CAN GET SIX VOTES TO DO IT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, HOW IT WORKS IN SAN ANTONIO. AND, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE AT A POINT NOW TO EVEN HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITHOUT A LOT OF FURTHER INFORMATION AND FACT FINDING. AND THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN TODAY. SO WALTER, YOUR THE ANSWER IS IT COULD GO IN AREAS IF THERE IS A APPETITE FOR IT TO GO THERE OR IF IT WORKS IN THE AREA, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE ANOTHER FUNDING SOURCE FOR, FOR ARTS AND CULTURE. BUT IF, IF IT'S GONNA MAKE THE DOWNTOWN LOOK LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, TIMES SQUARE, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY'S GONNA GO FOR THAT. WE'RE NOT AT THE POINT TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION BECAUSE THIS IS JUST, WE WERE ASKED TO GET BRIEFED ON IT BY, BY A CITIZEN GROUP. AND SO WE'RE DOING IT AND THAT'S ALL WE'RE DOING TODAY. SO ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? I JUST HAD A COMMENT. AS A RESOURCE CITY HAS A ZONING MAP THAT HAS THE OVERLAY DISTRICTS FOR ALL THE, WHAT ARE WE AT 30 HISTORIC DISTRICTS, 1300 LANDMARKS. AND ALSO THE DOWNTOWN ZONING OVERLAY BECAUSE THAT IS AN ADDITIONAL OVERLAY ON TOP OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE RIVERWALK OVERLAYS FOR YOU TO EVALUATE. AND THE CITY IDENTIFIES, YOU KNOW, THEY TALK ABOUT THE ORIGINAL 36 SQUARE MILES IN THEIR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT JUST DEVELOPMENT IN GENERAL, IT'S REFERENCED THERE. IF THOSE ARE, COULD BE SOME REFERENCE POINTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE, I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRING THIS UP. OKAY, BACK TO THE REGULAR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE. THANK YOU CHAIR. JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. SO ITEM NUMBER THREE IS ONCE AGAIN A NON-ACTION ITEM. THIS IS REALLY, THERE'S A LOT OF DIALOGUE FROM PREVIOUS MEETING ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT INVENTORY AND OVERLAY MAPS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO THIS AGENDA ITEM'S GONNA KIND OF PRESENT TO THE COMMITTEE WHAT WE'VE FOUND SO FAR AND GET A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEARER UNDERSTANDING OF HOW YOU WANT TO USE THAT INFORMATION AND PRESENT IT TO Y'ALL IN THE FUTURE. AND JEREMY, AFTER YOU DO THIS, CAN WHATEVER YOU'RE PRESENTING, CAN YOU EMAIL THAT OUT TO THE COMMITTEE SO THEY HAVE IT ALSO CORRECT? YEAH, I'LL EMAIL IT OUT TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT I'LL ALSO, WE'LL PUT THIS ON THE WEBSITE. OKAY. I JUST WANNA GET THE FORMATTING FIGURED OUT FROM WHAT THIS COMMITTEE'S LOOKING FOR. SO THE FIRST ONE WAS JUST AN INVENTORY. SO WE HAVE AN EMAIL SPREADSHEET AND NOT THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THIS AT ALL, BUT, SO THE FIRST QUESTION WAS JUST WHAT IS THE INVENTORY? SO THIS IS ALL THE BILLBOARDS LOCATED IN THE CITY. THIS IS THE DESIGNATION NUMBER THAT WE USE IN OUR OLD HANSON SYSTEM, WHICH IS CORRELATED WITH OUR NEW BUILD SA SYSTEM. UH, THIS IS THE PERMIT TYPE. THE ADDRESS ARE THEREABOUTS OF SOME OF THESE SIGNS. IT'S NOT ALWAYS GONNA BE 100% SINCE THEY'RE NOT TECHNICALLY ON AN ADDRESS. UH, THE CONTRACTOR FOR, UH, CURRENTLY ENTER THE PERMIT FOR THAT SIGN. THIS IS THE OLD FORMAT OF, OF LOOKING THINGS UP. AND THE OLD, I, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT WE CALL THE, THE BOOK, BUT , THIS IS AN OLD MAPPING SYSTEM, UH, BUT THE MORE IMPORTANT ONE IS THE SIZE OF THE SIGN. SO THIS IS THAT INVENTORY AND THOSE, UH, ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE, AND WE CAN POST THIS OUT THERE, UH, ON THE WEBSITE FOR THE COMMITTEE AND ANYBODY ELSE THAT'S INTERESTED TO, TO SEE THE NEXT QUESTION WAS WHERE DID ALL THOSE FALL AT? SO WE CREATED A MAP BASED OFF OF THAT INVENTORY. ONE SECOND. THAT ONE THAT PULLS UP. AND JEREMY, WHILE YOU'RE PULLING THAT UP QUESTION TO THE BOARD, UM, SO THE EXCEL SPREADSHEET THAT JEREMY SHOWED YOU WITH ALL THE SIGNS, AS HE MENTIONED, HE WALKED THROUGH THE COLUMNS. ONE OF THE COLUMNS IS WHO IS THE PERMIT HOLDER RIGHT NOW? AND AGAIN, THE PLAN IS TO PUT EVERYTHING ONLINE. IS THAT AN ISSUE WITH ANYONE? IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION ANYWAYS, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE YOU GUYS ARE AWARE WE GONNA PUT IT ONLINE. I THINK THAT'S GREAT. DOES THAT INCLUDE OWNER ALSO, OR JUST I DIDN'T SEE THE OWNERS ON THERE. I THINK IT'S, IT'S JUST THE PERMIT, THE SIGNED COMPANY, THE PERMIT HOLDER, THE PERMIT HOLDER. [00:35:01] 'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY HAVE, THEY KEEP TRACK OF THAT. SO THIS IS A GOOGLE MAPS THAT WE WERE OVERLAID ALL THOSE UH, ADDRESSES ONTO AND IT WOULD JUST BE A LINK. SO WE WOULD ADD THIS LINK TO THE WEBSITE AND WE'VE KIND OF BROKE IT DOWN INTO THREE DIFFERENT LAYERS. SIGNS THAT ARE 450 SQUARE FEET OR LESS SIGNS BETWEEN 4 51 AND 6 72. AND THEN ANYTHING 800 TO 1200, THERE'S NOTHING BETWEEN 6 72 AND 800. UH, SO Y'ALL CAN JUST KIND OF GET AN IDEA. THERE'S ABOUT 400 PLUS OF THE FOUR 50 OR LESS 400 PLUS OF THE 4 51 TO 6 72 AND THEN ONLY I THINK 13 SIGNS OF THE 800 TO 1200 SQUARE FEET. CAN YOU, YEAH, SO THIS IS JUST A GOOGLE MAP WITH A DESIGNATION OF WHERE THEY'RE AT. SO IS ANYTHING YOU CAN DO WITH A GOOGLE MAP? I CAN, YOU KNOW, CHANGE IT OVER TO UM, SATELLITE IMAGES, STUFF LIKE THAT. SO IT, IT'D JUST BE A LINK THAT WE'LL PUT ON THE WEBSITE AND THEY CAN TOGGLE OFF, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WANTED TO KIND OF LOOK AT CERTAIN SIZES ONLY. UM, SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO AS WELL. SO WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION, WE'LL PUT THAT OUT THERE FOR YOU. UM, SO I THINK THAT'S PRETTY EASY. THAT KIND OF ANSWERS THOSE QUESTIONS WHICH Y'ALL ASKED FOR LAST TIME. THE NEXT ONE IS THE OVERLAYS. Y'ALL KIND OF ASKED FOR IN THE CORRIDORS, SO, AND I'M PROBABLY DIDN'T CATCH ALL OF THEM. AS BEYOND WAS KIND OF POINTING OUT. WE DO HAVE QUITE A FEW, UH, BUT AREAS THAT GOVERN RULES ABOUT BILLBOARDS AND FOR MOST OF THESE, I THINK ACTUALLY SAY NO BILLBOARDS UNLESS THEY'RE UM, NON-CONFORMING HIS, UH, ALREADY EXISTING OR NOT ALLOWED. SO WE HAVE UH, SCENIC CORRIDORS AND I CAN PULL THIS UP. THIS ONE ISN'T FALLING UNDER THE GI I S WHAT I WAS GONNA DO IS PULL UP THE GI I S WHICH HAS URBAN CORRIDORS, GATEWAY CORRIDORS, RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY DISTRICTS, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICTS, AND HISTORICAL DISTRICTS ON THE G I M SS. UH, THE ONLY ONE THAT DOESN'T SHOW UP ON THAT IS THE SCENIC CORRIDORS, UH, WHICH FALLS UNDER CHAPTER 28. SO YOU WOULD'VE TO GO TO, UH, CHAPTER 28 DASH FIVE EIGHT SCENIC CORRIDORS AND HISTORICAL DISTRICTS. AND IT'S JUST KIND OF A DETAIL OF WHAT THOSE ARE. AND THEN IF ANYBODY'S INTERESTED IN LOOKING THIS UP, SO THIS IS THE SAN ANTONIO.GOV/DSD GOING TO ONE STOP ZONING MAP, HAVE TO GO TO THE LAYERS UNDER ONE STOP AND ZONING AND TURN ON THE CORRIDORS OVERLAY HISTORICAL LANDMARKS AND HISTORICAL DISTRICTS, NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. THE RIVER DISTRICT IS THE ONE AS WELL. I FEEL LIKE I'M MISSING ONE . SO THIS WOULD BE A MAP OF ALL THAT IF CORRIDORS AND DISTRICTS THAT WOULD NOT ALLOW FOR THOSE BILLBOARDS. SO THAT'S THE INFORMATION OUT THERE. I WASN'T SURE HOW Y'ALL, THE COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE US. IF THERE'S ANYTHING FURTHER YOU WOULD WANT US TO DO WITH THIS INFORMATION, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU JUST SEND OUT A STEP BY STEP OF HOW TO DO IT AND EVERYBODY CAN JUST GO ON AND DO IT IF THEY'RE INTERESTED. BECAUSE I THINK AS WE GO THROUGH THE DISCUSSION, THERE'S DIFFERENT ONES THAT ARE GONNA NEED TO BE APPLIED TO. SO FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT RAISING THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGNS, YOU KNOW, AND WE TALKED ABOUT, OKAY, YOU CAN RAISE IT TO 85 FEET, BUT YOU GOTTA TAKE ONE DOWN AND SOMEBODY, I THINK PATTY, PATTY MADE A SUGGESTION THAT MAYBE IT GOES, YOU CAN DO THAT IF YOU TAKE ONE DOWN IN THE SAME CORRIDOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO WE CAN GET, IT WOULD BE NICE TO, AS WE GO THROUGH THAT, TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE ONE MIGHT BE THAT'S AFFECTED AND IS IT IN A CORRIDOR AT ALL. AND IF IT'S NOT IN A CORRIDOR, YOU KNOW, WHERE DOES IT GO? AND, BUT WE'LL GET THERE AT SOME POINT. THIS IS REALLY HELPFUL, JEREMY. THANKS. OKAY, THANK YOU. YES, CHAIR. I JUST HAD A COMMENT, COULD YOU SHARE THAT LINK WITH OUR PREVIOUS PRESENTER ON HOW TO LOCATE THIS INFORMATION? THANK YOU. YES MA'AM. NOW I WAS PLANNING ON DOING THAT AFTER YOU BROUGHT UP THE GOOD END. PERFECT. A GREAT IDEA. OVERDO HIM. OKAY. ALRIGHT, SO ITEM FOUR. OKAY, SO THAT CONCLUDES ITEM NUMBER THREE, WHICH WAS A NON-AG AGENDA ITEM. NOW WE'RE MOVING INTO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, WHICH IS THE FIRST ACTION ITEM THAT WE COULD TAKE TODAY. AND ALL THE ACTION ITEMS THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING TODAY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO THIS COMMITTEE BEFORE. UH, SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, NOT SAYING THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE COMPLETE ACTION ON [00:40:01] 'EM. IF Y'ALL WANT MORE INFORMATION, DEFINITELY WANNA PROVIDE THAT. UH, BUT LET ME PULL UP KIND OF THE LIST AND IF YOU GOT THE PAMPHLET, THIS KIND OF STARTS US THROUGH THE VERY BEGINNING. SO, UH, THE FIRST PAGE IS TALKING ABOUT ITEM ONE DASH TWO AND THE LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THE MIDDLE COLUMN IS WHAT IS BEING SUGGESTED, CORRECT? CORRECT. SO THIS IS SECTION 28 DASH 52 1. THIS WAS ORIGINALLY BROUGHT UP TWO MEETINGS AGO WITH CLEAR CHANNEL. THIS WAS A PROPOSAL SUBMITTED BY CLEAR CHANNEL TO BETTER DEFINE WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT AN ADJACENT STREET TO DETERMINE THE HEIGHT OF A SIGN ABOVE THE 42 AND A HALF MAX. AND I THINK DURING THAT CONVERSATION, EVERYBODY, IT SEEMED LIKE EVERYBODY IN THE COMMITTEE WE'RE KIND OF IN FAVOR WITH BETTER DEFINING WHERE WE TAKE THAT MEASUREMENT POINT FROM. REALLY WHAT THE HANGUP WAS IS WHEN WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE 60 FOOT AND MOVING FROM 42 AND A HALF TO 60 FOOT AS THE BASE THAT WE WANTED TO TABLE THIS NOW SINCE THEN, THE DISCUSSION OF PER APPROVING, THE ABILITY TO BRING UP SIGNS HIGHER AND HAVING THAT AS A SPECIFIC AGENDA ITEM, UH, CLEAR CHANNEL, AND I DON'T, DON'T LET ME MISSPEAK, BUT TALKING WITH CLEAR CHANNEL, THEY SAID THEY'RE OKAY WITH KIND OF MOVING THAT OUT AND JUST DEFINING THE MEASUREMENT POINT BASED OFF OF WHAT THE STATE REQUIRES. SO ALL WE'RE REALLY DOING IS TAKING THE STATE REQUIREMENTS AND ADDING THAT TO OUR CODE LANGUAGE. SO JUST TO GO OVER IT ONE MORE TIME, DO YOU HAVE THE PICTURE, THE, DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE PICTURE? UH, I DON'T HAVE IT WITH US. WE CAN GO GET IT IF WE NEED TO. IF YOU WOULD LIKE HERE I MAY HAVE IT. LEMME SEE. NO, NO. BUT THE PROPOSAL RIGHT NOW, THIS IS THE LANGUAGE. THE UNDERLINED IN RED WOULD BE WHAT WE ADD TO BED TO ADD CLARIFICATION OF THAT. OKAY, SO ADJACENT STREET GRADING MEASUREMENT POINT. SO BASICALLY WHAT IT IS, IS IT'S CLARIFYING AND LET'S USE THE DOWNTOWN WHERE YOU HAVE A DOUBLE DECKER HIGHWAY OR THE HIGHWAY IS ABOVE WHERE THE SIGN IS LOCATED. THE POINT OF MEASUREMENT IS THIS, WHERE THE HIGHWAY IS NOT THE ACCESS ROAD THAT'S ADJACENT TO THE SIGN. OKAY. AND SO THEY CAN GO UP TO THE LESSER OF 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THAT POINT OF MEASUREMENT, BUT NOT MORE THAN 60 FEET FROM THE BASE OF THE SIGN TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN. SO WHICHEVER OF THOSE DISTANCES IS LESS, THAT BECOMES THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT. SO IF, IF FOR EXAMPLE, ON FOUR 10, IF IT'S FLAT ALL THE WAY ACROSS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHERE THE SIGN IS, IS THE SAME HEIGHT AS WHERE THE HIGHWAY IS ALL THE WAY ACROSS, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT WOULD BE 42 AND A HALF FEET. AND UH, IF THE HIGHWAY IS BELOW WHERE THE SIGN IS, THEY CAN GO UP TO 42 AND A HALF FEET. IF IT IS HIGHER, THEY CAN GO UP 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THE ROADWAY, BUT NO MORE THAN 60 FEET TOTAL FROM THE BASE OF THE SITE. SO THERE'S TWO LIMITING, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE APPLIED. QUESTIONS. YES. SO I, I HAVE A CONCERN. UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY UM, IDEA ON THE HEIGHT OF IN, IN THE PARTICULAR LOCATIONS? WHAT'S THE HEIGHT OF THE INTERSTATE? LIKE, I DON'T KNOW THE HEIGHT OF I 10 WESTBOUND COMING OUTTA DOWNTOWN. I DON'T KNOW THE HEIGHT, THE 35 AS IT SPLITS BETWEEN THE UPPER AND LOWER LEVEL AS IT'S ON THE WEST SIDE OF DOWNTOWN. DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THOSE HEIGHTS ARE TODAY? MY GUESS IS IT'S 20 TO 25 FEET ABOVE BECAUSE THE, IT'S 15 AT LEAST TO THE BOTTOM PLUS WHATEVER THE HIGHWAY IS, WE ARE NOT MAKING ANY CHANGE IN WHAT IS BEING ENFORCED RIGHT NOW. WE ARE JUST CLARIFYING THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS THE SAME IS EXISTS FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS. ALL WE'RE DOING IS CLARIFYING WHERE THE POINT OF MEASUREMENT IS. SO NOBODY, WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE HEIGHTS, WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING. ALL WE'RE DOING IS SAYING HERE'S WHERE YOU MEASURE [00:45:01] FROM. CAN I GET A COMMENT FROM STAFF THAT THAT IS TRULY THE INTENTION OF THIS AMENDMENT, PLEASE. THANK YOU. THAT IS CORRECT. YEAH. SO THIS AMENDMENT WOULD NOT CHANGE PRACTICE, JUST CLARIFY LOCATION, THAT'S WHERE LA LAST TIME IT GOT BROUGHT UP WAS WHERE THE 60 FOOT CHANGE GOT BROUGHT INTO CONCERN AND WHY WE MOVED IT TO A DIFFERENT AGENDA ITEM. SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT SPECIFICALLY. SO THIS IS THE GOAL IS HIGHLIGHT THIS ONE AND SEE IF WE CAN CHECK IT OFF AND HAVE IT BE COMPLETED. UH, SO WE WOULDN'T CHANGE IT HERE. AND THEN, UH, WE ALSO HAVE TO, WE ADJUST ADJACENT GRADE AS WELL UNDER TABLES TWO AND UH, TABLE ONE AND TWO FOR ON ONSITE PREMISE AS WELL. AND I'LL, I'LL BRING THAT UP HERE IN A SECOND. BUT IT'D BE THE EXACT SAME VERBIAGE TO SAY WHEN USING ADJACENT STRAIGHT UH, STREET GRADE TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGN, THIS IS WHERE YOU MEASURE TO IMPROVE THAT. SO JEREMY, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. UH, SO THE, THE PROPOSAL WE RECEIVED ORIGINALLY FROM CLEAR CHANNEL HAD KIND OF TWO POINTS IN IT. ONE IS ADJUSTING THE HEIGHT AND THE SECOND ONE IS TO DEFINE THE MEASUREMENT POINT. SO WHAT WE DID IS WE KIND OF SPLIT THOSE TO TWO AND NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ONLY THE MEASUREMENT POINT, WHICH AGAIN, WE'VE BEEN ENFORCING THIS WAY, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS QUESTIONS ABOUT IS THIS ACCURATE OR NOT? SO THIS IS JUST TO CLARIFY HOW WE MEASURE THE 42 AND A HALF UP TO 60. THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS PATTY? SO THE ORIGINAL UH, CODE IS FOR THE ADJACENT ROAD, LIKE THE ACCESS ROAD. SO IT SAYS 42 AND A HALF FEET IN HEIGHT ABOVE THE ADJACENT STREET GRADE, WHICH COULD BE THE ACCESS ROAD, THE FRONTAGE ROAD, CORRECT? YEAH, WELL NOBODY ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THAT MEANT, SO, OKAY, SO THE CITY AND PRACTICALITY, WHAT THEY WERE DOING IS GOING TO THE, THE HIGHWAY OR THE THE STREET. SO IN PRACTICE NOBODY DEFINED WHAT ADJACENT STREET GRADE WAS BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW IF THAT WAS THE ACCESS ROAD OR LOOP FOUR 10 IN THE MIDDLE OR WHATEVER. BECAUSE YOU HAVE SITUATIONS WHERE THE HIGHWAY IS EITHER ABOVE WHERE THE SIGN IS LOCATED, BELOW WHERE THE SIGN IS LOCATED AND NOBODY COULD FIGURE OUT. SO BASICALLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED, YOU KNOW, BE ASKING A BUNCH OF QUESTIONS IS WE ARE NOT CHANGE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S A GREAT PICTURE. SO THE POINT OF MEASUREMENT FOR THAT SIGN WOULD BE THE HIGHWAY TO THE RIGHT OF WHERE THE SIGN IS AND THEN THEY COULD GO 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THE HIGHWAY OR MAX OF 60 FEET, WHICHEVER IS LESS. OKAY. SO I'M STILL BLOND AND I'M STILL OLD AND I'M STILL CONFUSED. SO WAS THIS SIGN, IF ANY OF YOU GUYS OVER THERE KNOW FOR ME THE ORIGINAL CODE SAYS THE ADJACENT ROAD, WHICH FOR ME IS THE FRONTAGE ROAD. SO BUT THEY'VE BEEN MEASURING FROM THE HIGHWAY? NO, THE CENTER LANE. SO JUST SAY ONE THING. ARE YOU MEASURING FROM THE FRONTAGE ROAD CENTER LINE? ARE YOU MEASURING FROM THE EXPRESSWAY? CENTERLY FROM THE EXPRESSWAY? CURRENTLY EXPRESSWAY YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY? YEAH, YEAH. YES. FROM THE EXPRESSWAY. FROM THE EXPRESSWAY. SO THIS SIGN WAS MEASURED FROM THE EXPRESSWAY, CORRECT. TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE. THE THIS IS, I MEAN WITH DEVELOPER SERVICES, THE WAY, THE WAY WE'VE DONE IT SO FAR IS WE MEASURE FROM BOTH POINTS. SO WE MEASURE FROM THE HIGHWAY AND WE MAKE SURE IT'S NOT HIGHER THAN 42 AND A HALF. BUT THEN WE MEASURE FROM THE WHERE THE SIGN IS AND WE MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T EXCEED 60 OR WHATEVER IS LOWER. OKAY, MAKES SENSE. SO I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR THE LANGUAGE IN THE CODE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IN MY MIND, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST TIME TOO, AND YOU HAD SHOWED YOUR PHOTOS AND I WAS, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WAY IT'S READ AND IT'S ALL IN THE LANGUAGE THAT, UH, FOR ME IT'S PRETTY CLEAR WHERE YOU MEASURE ORIGINALLY. SO YOUR POINT OF CLARIFICATION IS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE MEASURING FROM THE RIGHT SPOT, WHICH ALL HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE DOES IT ONE WAY AND ONE DOES IT THE OTHER. SO NOW YOU'RE GETTING, MAKING IT VERY DEFINED. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING. OKAY, NOW I UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU. OKAY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UM, ANDREW PEREZ, I THINK THAT WAS NOT THE GREATEST EXAMPLE BECAUSE THE BASE OF THE SIGN WAS IN LINE WITH THE ACCESS ROAD. SO IF THE BASE OF THE SIGN IS BELOW THE ACCESS ROAD, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT EXAMPLE TO SHOW WHERE DO WE MEASURE FROM THERE? AND IN MY POINT OF OPINION IS FROM THE BASE OF THE, FROM THE ACCESS [00:50:01] ROAD, NOT THE BASE OF THE POLE? NO, IT'S THE BASE OF THE POLE. SO FROM THE BASE OF THE POLE TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN CANNOT BE MORE THAN 60 FEET. NO, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THAT'S THE CURRENT CODE RIGHT NOW. YEAH, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING, WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IT? WELL, SO WE CAN HAVE CHANGE AND MY CHANGE IS THAT IF THE BASE OF THE POLE IS BELOW WHEREVER THEY'RE MEASURING THE ACCESS ROAD OR HIGHWAY, WHATEVER, WELL THEN WE NEED TO MEASURE FROM THAT POINT UP, NOT FROM THE BASE OF THE POLE AT THE 60. WELL THEY, THEY WOULD GET TO MEASURE 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THE ADJACENT ROAD. THAT'S THE, THAT THAT IS WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW, MIKE. SO WHAT'S BEEN INSERTED IS THE STATE LANGUAGE, RIGHT? IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS MADE UP BY THE CITY. THE FACT THAT EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN OPINION, I THINK SPEAKS TO THE IMPORTANCE OF DOING THIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT ELIMINATES EVERYBODY'S OPINION. WE JUST TAKE THE STATE STANDARD, WHICH IS THE CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TRAVELED WAY, NOT INCLUDING A FRONTAGE ROAD OR CONTROLLED ACCESS HIGHWAY. CORRECT. AND THEN WE, SO THIS SOLVES THE PROBLEM OF EVERYBODY'S DISPARATE OPINIONS BY ADOPTING THE LANGUAGE THAT'S BEEN ADOPTED BY THE STATE THAT'S BEEN ENFORCED ANYWAY BY THE CITY FOR THE PAST NUMBER OF YEARS. THANK YOU. AND ALL WE'RE DOING IS CHANGING THE HEIGHT BECAUSE THE STATE WOULD LET YOU GO UP TO 80 OR 85 FEET DEPENDING. YES. I JUST HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL POINT OF CLARIFICATION. UM, IT HAS BEEN SAID MULTIPLE TIMES THAT IT WOULD BE THE LESSER OF THE TWO, BUT I DON'T SEE LANGUAGE THAT REFLECTS THE LESSER OF THE TWO DISTANCES. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT WAS VERBALLY COMMUNICATED IN THE EXPLANATION, BUT IT DOES NOT, IT IT'S IN THE LAST SENTENCE. THE MAXIMUM, YOU CANNOT EXCEED NOT TO EXCEED A MAXIMUM OF 60 FEET ABOVE GROUND LEVEL. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE, THAT'S THE MAX IT'S IMPLIED. YES. WELL, IT'S NOT IMPLIED. IT, IT'S EXPLICIT. THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THE SIDE FROM THE SIGNED BASE IS 60, CAN'T BE HIGHER THAN SIX. I THINK THAT LANGUAGE IS AMBIGUOUS. MAY I? YES. THEN, THEN YOU'RE SAYING IF YOUR ACCESS ROAD AND YOUR MAIN TRAVELED ROAD ARE ALL AT THE SAME HEIGHT, THAT SIGN CAN BE 60 FOOT? NO, IT CANNOT BE MORE THAN 42 AND A HALF FEET. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT SAYS. YEAH. YEAH. THE, THE FIRST TEST IS IT CANNOT BE HIGHER THAN 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THE POINT OF MEASUREMENT. OKAY. AND THEN THE SECOND STANDARD IS, IS FROM THE BASE OF THE SIGN TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN CANNOT BE MORE THAN 60 FEET. SO ESSENTIALLY IF THE SIGN IS NEXT TO ONE OF THOSE BIG FLYOVERS OR 2 81 MEETS, WHEREVER IT MEETS, IT'S A SIGN 42 FEET ABOVE 50 FEET IN THE AIR. RIGHT? IT IT'S, IT'S 60 FEET MAX. AND WHEN IT SAYS GROUND LEVEL, IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE BASE OF THE SIGN. SO MY SUGGESTION IS, IS TO CLARIFY THAT C NOT TO EXCEED A MAXIMUM OF A 60 FEET ABOVE BASE OF SIGN, THE BASE OF THE SIGN AT GROUND LEVEL OR ABOUT, WHY DON'T WE JUST CHANGE IT TO BASE OF SIGN? IS THAT CLEAR? I MEAN, BECAUSE GROUND LEVEL COULD BE ANOTHER YOU BASICALLY FROM WHERE THE DIRT IS ON THE BOTTOM TO THE TOP OF THE SIGN. YEAH. BASE GROUND DIRT PER FARMLAND. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? OKAY, FROM THE CONSENSUS FROM THE VOTING MEMBERS, IS THAT OKAY? YES. OKAY. NEXT ITEM. AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION PLEASE. SO THAT WILL CHANGE ALSO TABLES ONE AND TWO, BUT THE EXACT SAME THING, IT'S REALLY JUST ADDING THAT CLARIFICATION OF YEAH, THAT WHERE THE MEASUREMENT IS. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK COLLEEN. OH, COLLEEN, PLEASE LET THE MINUTES SHOW THAT I OBJECT TO THAT. I STILL THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT CLEAR. SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. TELL US HOW YOU WOULD CHANGE IT TO MAKE IT CLEAR. CAN WE GO BACK TO THE, I I MEAN WOULD, WOULD YOU FEEL BETTER IF WE INSERTED THE WORD SOMEWHERE IN THE BEGINNING THAT SAYS LESSER OF? OKAY. ABSOLUTELY. BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT SHOULD NOT, IF THE BASE OF THE SIGN IS AT THE STREET LEVEL, IT ALLOWS IT TO BE 60 FOOT. IT DOESN'T NO, [00:55:01] BUT BUT HERE JEREMY, CAN YOU TYPE IN THERE? LEMME TYPE YEAH. AFTER THE WORD SHALL, WHICH, WHICH ONE? THAT'S TWO SHALL NO. UH, THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS PROVISION SHALL BE THE LESSER OF 42 FEET. AND THEN JUST THE MEASURE FROM THE GREATER OR 60 FEET ABOVE THE BASE OF THE SITE. IS THAT ? IT'S GONNA BE THE SAME THING FOR ALL OF 'EM. THEY'RE JUST GONNA CHANGE WHAT THE, THE FEED ARE. DOES THAT TAKE CARE OF? YES. AND THEN I UH, JEREMY, IF YOU COULD SHOW US THE TABLES TOO. WELL HERE, LET, LET'S JUST FINISH THIS ONE. SORRY, PLEASE. THE SECOND SENTENCE YOU CAN SAY NOT TO EXCEED. GET RID OF, NOT TO EXCEED. JUST PUT THE WORD OR THAT'S 42 OR MR. CHAIR. CAN I FOUR? WE'RE AN HOUR INTO THE MEETING AND WE'VE ON, WE'RE ON ITEM NUMBER ONE HERE. UH, I MEAN I THINK THE LANGUAGE AS WRITTEN PREVIOUSLY SAYS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GONNA SPEND 10 MINUTES FIXING IT TO SAY JUST IN A DIFFERENT WAY. UM, WELL, BUT I WOULD JUST LIKE EVERYBODY HAPPY, SO THAT'S JUST NOT EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE HAPPY. IS THAT COLLEEN DOES THAT HANDLE IT? YOU, YOU HAVE TO SAY YES. YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE LANGUAGE BEFORE. YOU CAN'T JUST SAY I DON'T LIKE IT. WHAT DO YOU WANT? IS THAT WHAT THAT THAT IS? DOES THAT CLARIFY? BUT I WAS ASKING FOR. OKAY. AND WE WERE HERE TO CLARIFY. SO WE ALL AGREED TO THE SAME THING. GREAT. SO IS THIS, IS THIS CLEAR? YES. OKAY, SO VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, IS THAT CONSENSUS? YES. OKAY. TABLES. SO THIS IS THE ON-PREMISE SIGNS WHERE IF YOU'RE ADJACENT TO EXPRESSWAY, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO ABOVE THE TABLE UNDER THIS ASTERISK HERE, AN EXTRA 10 FEET. ONCE AGAIN, IT'S JUST IN HEIGHT ABOVE THE ADJACENT STREET GRADE, ADDING THE CLARIFICATION THAT THE STATE HAS NOT TO EXCEED. SO IF I'M HAPPY TO WORDSMITH THIS, IF THE COMMITTEE WOULD LIKE ME TO, I CAN MIRROR THIS EXACTLY AS THE OTHER ONE. WELL THIS ONE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT TWO DIFFERENT MEASUREMENTS OF 42 OR THAT I THINK THIS ONE'S CLEAR. IT'S JUST SAYING WHERE IT'S MEASURED. WE, WE WILL, WE WILL MODIFY IT TO MATCH WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. 'CAUSE IT HAS THE 50 AND THE 60. OKAY, PERFECT. AND THEN THIS IS THE EXACT SAME THING, JUST A DIFFERENT AREA OF LOCATION. SO YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO BETWEEN 16 AND 70, BUT I WILL HAVE THESE BE MIRRORING WHAT WE JUST WENT OVER FOR THOSE TWO ITEMS. THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM. SO ITEM NUMBER, WHAT ARE WE ON HERE? ITEM ITEM NUMBER FIVE IS SUBMITTAL FIVE DASH ONE. THIS WAS AN EXTERNAL SUBMITTAL FROM SEVEN 13. SIGNS AND GRAPHICS. L L C FROM CHRISTIE BARON. WE DISCUSSED THIS PREVIOUSLY. THIS IS IN REGARDS TO TEMPORARY PERMITS. SO BASICALLY WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE IS YOU CAN PULL A PERMIT, YOU CAN CHOOSE AT THE TIME YOU PULL THE PERMIT FOR ONE YEAR, TWO YEAR, THREE YEAR, FOUR YEAR, FIVE YEAR. AND PAY THAT FEE RIGHT UP FRONT, WHICH MEANS THAT THE SIGN COMPANY DOESN'T HAVE TO COME TO PAY A $25 FEE AND GO THROUGH ALL THAT ADMINISTRATIVE STUFF. EASIER ON THE CITY, EASIER ON THE PEOPLE WHO GET THE TEMPORARY SIGNS AND THE FEE WILL BE THE SAME. YOU JUST, YOU WANT A FIVE YEAR, YOU JUST PAY THE SAME, YOU WOULD'VE PAID AND YOU ONLY HAVE TO FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK ONCE. ANY QUESTIONS? EVERYBODY GOOD WITH IT? OKAY. NEXT AGENDA. ITEM NUMBER SIX IS CSSA FOUR INTERNAL. THIS IS A CLARIFICATION. THE EXPRESSWAY STANDARDS SET IN TABLES ONE AND TWO SHALL NOT ALSO APPLY TO LOTS OR ANY PORTIONS OF LOTS LOCATED WITHIN [01:00:01] 500 FEET. SO WE WENT OVER THIS NOT AS AN, AS AN ACTION ITEM LAST PERIOD, UH, LAST MEETING, BUT WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT IT AND PRESENTED THIS INFORMATION. SO THE INTENT TO THIS CLARIFICATION IS, WAIT, HOLD ON, HOLD ON, HOLD ON. WE JUST NEED TO DELETE THE WHOLE SENTENCE AFTER THAT, THAT PERMIT CAN RENEW UP TO FOUR TIMES. THE WHOLE THING HAS JUST GO AWAY. NO, I'M SORRY. NO, IT, WELL, YOU, IT NEEDS, THE WAY I WAS THINKING NEEDS TO STAY THERE IN CASE THE PEOPLE WANT TO DO IT ONE YEAR AT A TIME. BUT I THINK YOU NEED TO ADD IT GIVES THEM THAT OPPORTUNITY IF THEY WANTED TO, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO, SO. OKAY. THAT'S WHY IT'S STAYED. OKAY. OKAY. SO, UH, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THESE TWO TABLES. THIS IS ON-PREMISE SIGNS AND THOSE TABLES KIND OF SPECIFY THE HEIGHT THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO BE AT, UH, IN DIFFERENT AREAS. SO THEY HAD TABLE ONE AND TABLE TWO. UH, TABLE TWO ACROSS THE BOARD, DEPENDING ON WHAT TYPE OF STREET ARTERIAL, EXPRESSWAY OF WHAT HEIGHT YOUR SIGN CAN BE AND WHAT SQUARE FOOTAGE. IF YOU ARE A PROPERTY NEXT TO AN EXPRESSWAY, THEN IF, AND IF THERE'S AN ADJACENT DIFFERENCE, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GO UP AN ADDITIONAL 10 FOOT OVER THAT TABLE. UH, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE NEED TO, WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THAT VERBIAGE AS THAT ASTERISK TO MEET WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT. BUT IF YOU'RE A PROPERTY THAT'S WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE EXPRESSWAY, YOU CAN USE EXPRESSWAY REQUIREMENTS, BUT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE EXPRESSWAY ALLOWANCE OF THAT EXTRA TENT. SO WE'RE ADDING SOME CLARIFICATION IN THE LANGUAGE. LET ME GET TO THAT SECTION REAL FAST. SO JEREMY, CAN YOU GO PUT THE MAP UP WHERE IT'S THE PROPERTY MAP THAT YOU JUST, YOU HAD UP LAST TIME? I'M NOT SURE. PROPERTY MAP, LIKE A PARCEL MAP THAT SHOWS WHICH ARE ADJACENT AND WHAT WOULD NOT BE. YEAH, YEAH. PERFECT. SO THE ONE THAT SAYS C THREES WOULD GET ANOTHER 10 FEET AND THE ONES THAT SAY THE ONE BEHIND IT THAT HAS THE TWO ARROWS THAT INTERSECT WOULD NOT GET THE EXTRA 10 FEET BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THE HIGHWAY. CORRECT. AND THAT IS THE CURRENT PRACTICE. WE'RE JUST CLARIFYING THE LANGUAGE TO BETTER INDICATE THAT FOR THE CUSTOMERS. IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT? OKAY. AND THAT'S THE LANGUAGE THERE, EXCLUDING THE 10 FOOT INCREASE FOR ADJACENT GRADE ALLOWANCE. SO THEY'RE ALLOWED TO USE THOSE TABLE, BUT NOT THOSE AMENDMENTS TO THE TABLE OR THE ADDITIONS TO THE TABLE. THANK YOU. NUMBER 14. UH, SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THIS IS COSTA FIVE. INTERNAL FREESTANDING SIGNS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN ACCORDANCE WITH TABLE ONE FOR RESIDENTIAL R TWO AND THREE OCCUPANCIES. WE DISCUSSED THIS ONE AS AN AGENDA ITEM LAST MEETING, UH, ABOUT ADDING MF 33. UM, ACTUALLY WE CAME CLOSE TO ACTUALLY WANTING TO WITHDRAW THIS. UH, BUT WE WERE SEEING THE MISTAKE THAT WE MADE WHEN WANTING TO ADD MF 33 TELLS US WE PROBABLY NEED TO ADD A LITTLE BIT OF CLARIFICATION. SO ONE SECOND, LET ME FIND THAT SECTION. SO HERE IT IS. SO THIS PROVISIONS APPLICABLE TO RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. FREESTANDING SIGNS ARE, ARE ALLOWED IN ACCORDANCE WITH TABLE ONE FOR RESIDENTIAL R TWO AND THREE OCCUPANCIES. NOW, WHEN WE BROUGHT THIS TO THE COMMITTEE, WE WERE ACTUALLY LOOKING READING THAT AS RRN TWO AND R THREE ZONING DISTRICTS, BUT REALLY WHAT THEY'RE SPECIFYING IS OCCUPANCIES. SO WE JUST WANNA ADD SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT THIS IS R TWO, R THREE AS DEFINED BY THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE PER CHAPTER 10 AND NOT ZONING DISTRICTS. SO WHAT THIS ALLOWS IS WE REALLY SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING INTO ANY NEW BUILDS. UH, ZONING DISTRICTS ARE SLOWLY MOVING AWAY. ANYTHING THAT'S IN OUR RESIDENCE OR OUR DISTRICT, UH, FOR ZONING, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE MULTI-FAMILIES WITHIN THAT. THEY WOULD ALL FALL UNDER SOME FORM OF COMMERCIAL OR MF OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT IF IN CASE THERE IS ANYTHING THAT STILL KIND OF HADN'T BEEN CAUGHT UP AND YOU HAVE SOME FORM OF MULTIFAMILY OR ANY TYPE OF R TWO OR R THREE OCCUPANCY TYPES, THERE'S A LOT OF, THERE'S A LIST OF LIKE BOARDING HOMES AND STUFF THAT, SUCH AS THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE SOME SIGNAGE PER THAT TABLE ONE IN THOSE DISTRICTS. AND THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN THERE HISTORICALLY. SO, SO WHAT IS OUR, WE HAVE THAT AS A, WE DON'T WANT TAKE AWAY WHAT'S ALREADY THERE. WE JUST WANNA CLARIFY WHEN YOU CAN USE IT. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT OCCUPANCY TYPES WOULD BE? R TWO GENERALLY? YEAH, LEMME PULL THAT UP REAL QUICK. AND WHAT'S OUR THREE? SO BY THE TIME JEREMY PULLS THAT, UM, SO WHEN WE LOOKED AT THIS AGAIN, UH, LAST WEEK ACTUALLY INTERNALLY, WE PULLED THE PRIOR CODE [01:05:01] BEFORE 2017 BEFORE WE UPDATED THE CODE. AND THAT SECTION WAS SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT APARTMENTS AND DORMS. AND I BELIEVE I WASN'T PART OF THE DISCUSSION IN 2015 TO 17, BUT I GUESS THE DISCUSSION WAS WHY WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT APARTMENTS AND DORMS. IT SHOULD BE R TWO AND R THREE OCCUPANCY. THAT INCLUDES, AGAIN, LIKE BOARDING HOMES, UH, ASSISTED LIVING, THINGS LIKE THAT. JEREMY WILL PULL EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS. SO TECHNICALLY THE R TWO AND R THREE IS THE TYPE OF OCCUPANCY, NOT THE ZONING AT ALL. SO AGAIN, IT WAS OUR MISTAKE WHERE WE ADDED THE MF 33 AND WE JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY IT NOW TO SPECIFICALLY SAY IT'S R TWO AND THREE OCCUPANCIES BASED ON THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE. SO CAN WE GET RID OF THE WORD, UH, RESIDENTIAL IN FRONT OF THAT? FREESTANDING SIGNS ARE ALLOWED IN ACCORDANCE WITH TABLE ONE, FOUR, R TWO, AND R THREE OCCUPANCY TYPES DEFINED BY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAKES MORE SENSE. YEAH, YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S PERFECT. OKAY. ANYBODY, UH, ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? I THINK IF WE HAVE AN R ONE AND WE DON'T SAY RESIDENTIAL, IT MAY BE NOT USED FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES, BUT HAVE A SMALL BUSINESS IN THERE. WOULD THAT CONFUSE THINGS LATER? WELL, IF IT'S A BUSINESS, THEY'RE ALLOWED SOMEWHERE ELSE TO HAVE A SIGN, CORRECT. BUT IF WE TAKE OUT THE RESIDENTIAL PART, RES RES, UM, BUSINESSES ARE DEFINED IN THE BUILDING CODE AS B OCCUPANCY OR IF IT'S MARK AND TELL IT'S M I MEAN THERE'S OTHER DESIGNATIONS. SO, WELL, LIKE ON THE WEST SIDE, THERE'S STILL SOME, I DON'T, UNLESS IT'S CHANGED THE LAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS, THERE'S A LOT OF R ZONES THAT WE HAVE. SMALL GROCERY STORES AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THERE. AGAIN, THE, THE CONFUSION YOU ARE, I GUESS YOU ARE SEEING THE SAME THING WE SAW PREVIOUSLY. WE WERE THINKING THIS IS ZONED R BUT IT'S NOT. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TYPE OF OCCUPANCY. SO NOT THE ZONING, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE PROPERTY, WHAT THE PROPERTY IS ZONED FOR. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TYPE OF OCCUPANCY. SO IT COULD BE BUSINESS MARKET, ANDELE, FACTORY INDUSTRY, IT COULD BE RESIDENTIAL. AND UNDER RESIDENTIAL THERE IS R 1, 2, 3, AND FOUR. BUT THIS IS SPECIFICALLY FOR R TWO AND THREE OCCUPIES ONLY. THANK YOU. SO POINT OF CLARIFICATION TO HIS POINT. IF YOU SCROLL UP JEREMY, YOU'LL LOOK AT THE TITLES THAT THEY CALL, THEY CALL IT RESIDENTIAL GROUP, R ONE, MAYBE CALLING IT RESIDENTIAL GROUP BECAUSE TO YOUR POINT I THOUGHT IT WAS R ONE, R TWO, R THREE ZONING. UM, BUT IT MAY BE PUTTING RESIDENTIAL GROUP IN THE FRONT OF IT, UM, WOULD HELP KEEP PEOPLE FROM THINKING THIS IS R ONE, R TWO, R THREE ZONING. THANK YOU. THAT'S FINE. AND IT SHOULD BE CAPITALIZED BOTH WORDS, COLLEEN. SO PREVIOUSLY WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT, UM, WE HAD MF 33 IN THERE. IT DID. YOU DETERMINE THAT'S NOT NEEDED IN THERE. NOW AGAIN, M MF 33 IS A ZONING DESIGNATION, NOT AN OCCUPANCY DESIGNATION. AND AGAIN, SORRY, WE, WE DID THAT MISTAKE THE MINUTE WE SAW R R TWO AND R THREE, WE ASSUMED IT'S, YOU KNOW, ZONING AND WE, BECAUSE MF 33 WAS NEWLY ADOPTED, I GUESS. SO WE JUST THREW IT THERE, BUT THEN WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT, IT WAS A MISTAKE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? OKAY, NEXT ITEM. SO THIS IS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, COSA SIX, INTERNAL CLARIFICATION. WE DISCUSSED THIS LAST TIME. THIS IS, UH, THE USE OF DIGITAL PROJECTIONS AND VIDEOS ON DIGITAL SIGNS ABOVE 32 SQUARE FEET. ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE NOT REALLY CHANGING THE INTENT OR THE PRACTICE AT THIS TIME. WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO CLARIFY WHEN YOU'RE ALLOWED TO USE, UH, VARIOUS THINGS ON DIGITAL SIGNS. AND KINDA LOOKING AT IT, WHAT WE ORIGINALLY BROUGHT THE, THE COMMITTEE KIND OF JUST ASKED US TO DEFINE VIDEO OR SOME FORM OF WORD AND ADD IT HERE AND BE KIND OF DONE WITH IT. UH, BUT WHAT WE ACTUALLY KIND OF LOOKING AT THAT WE SEE THAT THIS ORIGINALLY IS TITLED DIGITAL DISPLAYS AND ON-PREMISES, BUT WE ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PROJECTIONS. 'CAUSE YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE PROJECTIONS AS WELL AS A SIGN. SO IT KIND OF FALLS UNDER THE SAME INTENT. AND WE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ANYWHERE ELSE TO [01:10:01] PUT DIGITAL AS DISPLAYS. THE REASON THIS KIND OF CAME UP WAS WE WERE THINKING ABOUT JUST REMOVING DIGITAL PROJECTION HERE, BUT IF WE DID, THEN TECHNICALLY NOWHERE IN THE SIGN CODE WILL WE BE ABLE TO SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE A DIGITAL PROJECTION AS A SIGN AT ANY SIZE. SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. FINAL FOUR COMES TO TOWN, THEY WANT TO PUT A, A VIDEO PROJECTION UP AGAINST ONE OF THE, THE, UH, CITY OWNED BUILDINGS THAT SHOWS SOMETHING THAT'S MOVING AND STUFFING LIKE THAT. ARE WE GONNA TELL 'EM NO? WHAT SO FINAL FOUR COMES TO SAN ANTONIO AND THEY WANT TO PUT A COKE COMMERCIAL UP BECAUSE COKE'S PAYING THE FREIGHT TO HAVE THE CITY HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO BE ABLE TO PUT ON THE EVENT. ARE WE GONNA TELL 'EM NO, THEY CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT ALLOWED AND IT'S MORE THAN 32 SQUARE FEET. I CAN'T DO IT. COKE CAN'T DO IT. NO, I, NO, I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S WHAT WE WANT. BECAUSE SOME LARGE CONVENTIONS THAT COME TO TOWN WANT TO HAVE IMAGES ON THE BUILDING AS PART OF THEIR WELCOMING TO THEIR 30,000 PEOPLE CONVENTION. YOU KNOW, LIKE ON THE SIDE OF THE CONVENTION CENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT SAYS WELCOME X, Y, Z GROUP, THIS WOULD PROHIBIT THAT. AND SO I THINK WE JUST NEED TO BE CAREFUL AND SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TALK TO THE CONVENTION BUREAU AND STUFF LIKE THAT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVEN'T JUST DONE SOMETHING THAT HAS A HUGE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. 'CAUSE I KNOW WHEN MY BIG TRADE ASSOCIATION GOES TO DENVER, SOMETHING ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING THERE IS A HUGE WELCOME AND IT'S ANIMATED AND YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT. YES. BIANCA, I THINK WHEN YOU MENTIONED THE FINAL FOUR, THOSE TYPES OF EXEMPTIONS ARE APPROVED AT COUNCIL WHEN THEY USUALLY IMPROVE AN INCENTIVE PACKAGE. JUST LIKE THEY WAIVE THE ABILITY FOR THEM TO HAVE ALL THE VENDORS OUT THERE. SO THAT'S ALREADY TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN THEY WANNA BRING BIG THINGS. UM, SO I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT MAY BE PERCEIVED UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES IS, I BELIEVE THERE ARE ALREADY STEPS THAT PROTECT THAT FOR SOME BIG EVENTS THAT YOU MENTIONED ALREADY, THOSE GO DIRECTLY TO COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL, NOT, NOT TRADE, NOT CONVENTIONS, NONE OF IT CONVENTIONS TODAY MAKE VIDEO PROJECTIONS TODAY? I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW SOME THEY DO NOT. SOME PLACES I KNOW IN SOME PLACES, BECAUSE I ATTEND A LOT OF NATIONAL TRADE SHOWS THAT THEY HAVE STUFF UP ALL OVER AND, AND YOU KNOW, THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL. THE CONVENTION CENTER WORKS WITH THE DEAL. IF THIS GETS IN, THEY, THE CONVENTION CENTER WOULDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO WAIVE IT BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE. AND SO I JUST THINK I, I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA. BUT I THINK BEFORE WE GET TO THE BIG BOARD WITH IT, YOU MIGHT WANT TO RUN THE TRAP AND WITH THE CONVENTION BUREAU AND SAYING, OKAY, IS THIS A PROBLEM ADDITIONALLY, WOULD THIS PROHIBIT, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING THAT THE UH, THE WHATEVER THE DRIVE, THE ONLY REMAINING DRIVE-IN IS IN A BUILDING AND IT PROJECTS ON A BUILDING. WOULD THIS PROHIBIT THAT? ALSO SPECIFIC ABOUT SIGNS? DO THAT AGAIN SPECIFICALLY ABOUT SIGNS. SO IT SHOULDN'T AFFECT DRIVE-IN MOVIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I MEAN, I, WE CAN I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN, MARK AND I I THINK WE CAN GET WITH LEGAL TO SEE, I MEAN, THE INTENT OF THIS WHOLE CHAPTER IS SIGNS. IF SOMEBODY'S SHOWING A, YOU KNOW, A PROJECTION OF A SIGN THAT COULD BE LOOTED, THEN YES, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO COME IN AND SAY YOU CAN'T PROJECT SIGNS. BUT IF THEY'RE PROJECTING SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SIGNAGE, DOES THIS, WOULD YOU, WOULD WE BE ABLE TO INFER THAT THIS CHAPTER OVER SUPERSEDES THAT AND SAYS YOU CAN'T EVEN SHOW VIDEOS OR ANYTHING BECAUSE OF HOW THIS IS WORDED? YEAH, WE, IT WOULD BE LOOKED AT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. I, I MEAN I, IT WOULD, UM, I I, YOU KNOW, WE CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT, THAT IT MIGHT APPLY. I JUST, UH, HAVE TO KIND OF LOOK AT IT TO SEE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE DETAILS OF IT ALL. BUT, UM, WE, WE WOULD LOOK AT THAT. SO I MEAN, FOR THE CHAIRS, THIS IS, I MEAN, UM, SCROLL DOWN TO STANDARDS JEREMY, REAL QUICK. SO TECHNICALLY AS OF TODAY IN OUR CURRENT CODE, IT TALKS ABOUT THE USE OF THIS DIGITAL PROJECTION IS PROHIBITED. AND IF IT'S OVER 32 SQUARE FEET, IT'S ALREADY IN THE CODE. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE IN THE CODE TODAY. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE ENFORCING. SO ADDING THE WORD VIDEO IS NOT CHANGING THE DIGITAL PROJECTION OR ALLOWING IT OR JUST ALLOWING IT. IT'S, [01:15:01] IT'S KEEPING IT THE SAME, IT'S JUST ADDING THE WORD VIDEO ON IT. OKAY. SO IT'S THE CLARIFICATION, WE'RE NOT CHANGING POLICY IN THIS. CORRECT. CORRECT. THANK YOU. BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE ENFORCING POLICY. SO I, WHAT WHAT, AND THAT'S THE WORST OF ALL WORLDS WHERE YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS, UH, AS OUR LEGAL COUNSEL SAID, IS GONNA BE CONSIDERED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE. AND SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE ADOPT THE WORD IN IT AND SOMETIME BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN THIS GOES TO THE BIG BOARD TO JUST COVER, TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF WE NEED TO ADD AN EXEMPTION SECTION IN FOR TRADE ASSOCIATION CONVENTIONS OR CONVENTIONS BOOK BY THE, THE, THE CONVENTION CENTER OR SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AT A LATER DATE. I JUST THINK THEY ALREADY BYPASS IT TODAY WITH COUNCIL ACTION WHEN THEY DID LIKE THE TRICENTENNIAL CELEBRATION AND THEY HAD PROJECTIONS DOWNTOWN ON SOME LARGE SURFACES THAT WAS BASED ON COUNCIL ACTION. IT'S NOT QUITE, YEAH, THAT'S NOT A WHAT I'M, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. BUT THAT IS CONVENTION BASED BECAUSE IT WAS PROJECTED ON THE CONVENTION CENTER. NO, IT'S NOT. THESE THINGS ARE NEGOTIATED WITH THE, WITH THE CONVENTION CENTER BUREAU BY EVERY CONVENTION THAT COMES TO TOWN. IT NEVER GOES TO COUNCIL. COUNCIL DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT. AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING TO HURT OUR, YOU KNOW, I THINK GRAVY. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT WE CAN'T JUST SAY CONVENTION OR ELMO DOME OR SOME OTHER EVENT. IT HAS TO BE ACROSS THE BOARD FOR EVERYBODY. NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING, OKAY, I THINK WE SHOULD ADOPT IT LIKE IT IS IN BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN IT GOES TO THE BIG BOARD, JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE RUN THE TRAPS WITH THE CONVENTION CENTER BUREAU THAT IT DOESN'T NEED SOME TWEAK OR SOMETHING. BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE THAT THE RULE STANDS BY ITSELF AND IT'S NOT SELECTIVELY BEING ENFORCED. I BELIEVE THERE'S A RULE IN THE, WHEN, WHEN WE CREATED THE CODE LAST TIME THAT ALLOWED WHEN, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE HAD PARADES AND UH, A NEWS COMPANY WAS THERE WITH A LARGER THAN THREE, TWO SQUARE FEET DISPLAY. AND THAT WAS ALLOWED FOR THAT. IT MAY BE IN THERE ALREADY. OKAY, SO ITEM NUMBER 22, JEREMY. SO WE TABLED THAT ONE, IS THAT CORRECT? NOW WE'RE GONNA ADOPT IT LIKE IT IS AND THEY'RE GONNA DO SOME MORE JUST C Y A CHECKING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE OKAY AND WE'RE NOT HURTING ANY OF OUR, YOU KNOW, WHAT I CALL MAJOR SOURCES OF CITY REVENUE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, TOURISM BY DOING THAT. THANK YOU CHAIR. YEAH, WE'LL DO THAT. SO WE'LL TAKE IT AS IS THE INTENT BEING NO PROJECTIONS FOR SIGN ONLY? THAT'S CORRECT. AND WE'LL LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF WE NEED TO ADD ANY TYPE OF LANGUAGE THAT CLARIFIES THAT THIS DOESN'T HAVE ANY OVERREACH TO PROJECTIONS OF MOVIES OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED ANYWHERE ELSE. THAT IS CORRECT. THE INTENT IS SIGNAGE ONLY. OKAY, CHAIR, THAT IS CONCLUDES ALL OF OUR ACTIONABLE ITEMS FOR TODAY. AND THEN THE REST OF THE TIME WE WANTED TO REVIEW THE, THE PENDING ITEMS AND KIND OF GET A CLEAR FROM THE COMMITTEE OF HOW THEY WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT THESE TO THE COMMITTEE, ANY DISCUSSION THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE. SO LET'S DO THIS OF THE NEXT MEETING. LET'S DO THIS FIRST ITEM ON THE LIST. AND I'M GONNA READ THE NUMBERS. I NEED A MOTION, UH, BY A VOTING MEMBER, NOT AN ALTERNATE TO APPROVE NUMBER 2, 7, 13, 14 AND 15 AS WE AMENDED THEM. SO THAT IS NUMBER 2, 7, 13, 14, AND 15. AS WE AMENDED THEM MAKE JACK UP MORE, I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION FOR ITEMS 2, 7, 13, 14, AND 15 THAT WE ACCEPT THEM AS AMENDED. THANK YOU. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. THANK YOU. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? ABSTENTION. MOTION CARRIES. OKAY, SO WE TALKED ABOUT 22. NOW I WANT TO GO BACK TO, UH, DO WE HAVE ANY LANGUAGE YET ON ITEM NUMBER ONE? SO BY THE NEXT MEETING, AT LEAST THE WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING, WILL YOU GET SOME LANGUAGE [01:20:01] ON THE MAINTENANCE? THIS IS, THIS IS, IT'S, IT'S NOT EVEN A LANGUAGE. IT'S, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE MERELY, MERELY MAKING APPLICATION TO TDOT FOR CERTIFICATION. IT'S, IT'S, THERE'S, IT'S OKAY. NO, NO, THAT IS THAT NOT THE RIGHT ONE, NUMBER ONE? NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. NO, BUT YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT ONE. I WAS ON THE WRONG ONE. OKAY. SO IS THERE BEEN ANY YEAH, I CAN TALK ABOUT ONE DASH ONE. UH, THAT'S THE CER UH, GETTING CERTIFIED WITH THE STATE. SO WE ARE IN CURRENT TALKS RIGHT NOW WITH SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES WITHIN THE, UH, TEXAS THAT ARE PART OF THAT AND SOME THAT ARE NOT. JUST KINDA GET A LITTLE BIT OF FEEDBACK, UH, STAFF STILL TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE FULL SCOPE OF WHAT THAT MEANS FOR BOTH OUR SIGN CODE, UH, WORKING WITH THE STATE, OUR CONTRACTORS, AND THEN JUST LIKE WHAT IS THE WORKLOAD TO MAINTAIN THAT CERTIFICATION AND IF THERE'S BEEN ANY ISSUES FOR OTHER CITIES WITH THAT. SO WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE ALL THAT DONE IT, THE GOAL, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON WHEN WE SET THE NEXT MEETING, IF WE CAN HAVE THAT READY, WE'LL DEFINITELY BE ABLE TO BRIEF ON THAT. BUT I, I THINK ULTIMATELY AS, AS TIM WAS KIND OF SAYING, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD BE TRULY AN ACTION ITEM THAT SAYS WE AMEND THE CHAPTER 28 AS MUCH AS THE COMMITTEE PROVIDING SOME GUIDANCE TO THE VOTING OFFICIAL AND, UH, STAFF TO MOVE FORWARD WITH CREATING THAT OKAY. RELATIONSHIP WITH THE STATE. YEAH, BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY MENTIONED IN THE CODE, IS IT? NO. CORRECT. OKAY. SO THAT, OKAY, SO IF WE ARE DOING THAT ONE, WE WILL DO THAT BY JUST MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BIG BOARD THAT THE CITY DOES THAT. AND IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO IT BEFORE THE BIG BOARD GETS THIS, THAT WOULD BE Y'ALL'S OPTION. OKAY. SO ITEM THREE IS WHAT I WAS ORIGINALLY TALKING ABOUT. HAVE WE GOT LANGUAGE ON WHAT MAINTENANCE? YES SIR. WE'VE SUBMITTED LANGUAGE TO THE, TO THE STAFF. SO CAN WE PUT THAT AS AN ACTION ITEM FOR THE NEXT MEETING? AND WILL YOU, UH, AS PART OF THE STUFF THAT GOES TO US, UH, GIVE US THAT LANGUAGE AT LEAST A WEEK, BE NO THEM A WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING SO THAT WE CAN JUST READ OVER IT AND LOOK AT IT AND PERUSE IT BEFORE IT GETS TO THE MEETING. SURE. LUIS DELATORRE A CLEAR CHANNEL OUTDOOR WE DID AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEAR AND THEY HAVE THANKS. OKAY. AND I MEAN, ULTIMATELY I'M SURE YOU'RE ASKING FOR STAFF TO PROVIDE THAT TO THE ? THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH, NO, WE'LL, WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK TO GET THE INFORMATION. WE'LL WORK WITH CLEAR CHANNEL AND MAKE SURE WHAT WE'RE PRESENTING MAKES SENSE FOR BOTH THE CITY AND CLEAR CHANNEL AND THEN THE, THE COMMITTEE CAN MAKE THEIR FINAL RECOMMENDATION. YEAH, AND, AND IF YOU CAN COME TO SOME AGREEMENT AS TO WHAT THAT LANGUAGE LOOKS LIKE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. AND IF YOU CAN'T, WE, I'D LIKE WHAT YOUR STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS AND WHAT CLEAR CHANNEL'S RECOMMENDATION SEPARATELY SO THAT THE COMMITTEE CAN LOOK AT BOTH AND DECIDE. BUT IF YOU CAN COME TO SOME, UH, MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AS TO WHAT THAT IS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. , YES. UM, I'M, I'M REFRESHING MY MEMORY. UM, IF, IF THE CITY TAKES OVER, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMPLY WITH BOTH CITY AND STATE STANDARDS. YOU HAVE, WELL, YOU, YOU, I GUESS SO AS IT IS WITH TEXDOT, THE CITY CAN HAVE TITER STANDARDS. YES. THAT, SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY IF WE HAVE, IF YOU ARE FOLLOWING THE CITY STANDARDS, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH, WITH THE STATE IF IT'S GREATER, IF IT'S MORE RESTRICTIVE. IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. IT SEEMS NO, THAT'S NOT, THE CITY STANDARDS HAS TO BE EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN WHAT THE STATE RULES ARE, CORRECT? NO, BASED ON THE APPLICATION PROCESS, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE SEEING. WE'RE SEEING THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO VET IT AND THEY WANNA SEE THOSE. BUT IF APPROVED, THEN OUR CITY IS THE ONLY STANDARDS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH. IS THAT CORRECT? HOW YOU READ IT TO ME THAT THAT'S BASICALLY TRUE, UH, WHEN YOU'RE GETTING CERTIFIED, SINCE THERE IS A BASELINE, A FEDERAL BASELINE OF WHAT MUST BE COMPLIED WITH. FOR EXAMPLE, THE EASIEST ONE TO, TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REQUIRES THE STATE OF TEXAS TO HAVE SPACING BETWEEN BILLBOARDS OF NO LESS THAN 500 FEET. THERE IS NO METHOD THAT A CITY COULD VIOLATE THAT. THERE IS ALWAYS THOSE A FEW BASELINES THAT MUST BE COMPLIED WITH, OTHERWISE THE STATE LOSES FEDERAL HIGHWAY FUNDING. SO, SO WHAT I, WHAT THEY PRESENTED, IT HAS TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL THE FEDERAL RULES AND THEN WHATEVER THE SAN ANTONIO RULES ARE THEN WOULD BE OVER THAT. AND THEY HAVE TO BE GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO WHAT THE FEDERAL [01:25:01] STANDARDS ARE. BUT DO THEY HAVE TO BE GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO THE TEXAS STANDARDS? I DON'T, THE, THE LATITUDE THAT'S GIVEN THE CITIES IS THAT THEY CAN GO, UH, MORE OR LESS RESTRICTIVE GENERALLY MOST ARE MORE RESTRICTIVE. THE FEW TIMES WE GET CAUGHT IN, THE EXAMPLE WE GAVE WAS THE CITY HAD APPROVED THE PROGRAM TO PUT DIGITALS ON THE BACK. THIS IS TIM ANDERSON BY THE WAY. I GUESS I SHOULD SAY THAT. UM, THE CITY HAD HAD APPROVED THE PROGRAM FOR US TO PUT BACK DIGITALS ON ALL OF OUR 13 SIGNS THAT WE BUILT. WELL, THE CITY SAID FINE, WE TOOK DOWN SIGNS AND EVERYTHING. TXDOT LITERALLY CHANGED ITS MIND ON AN INTERPRETATION OF ITS RULE AT THAT TIME. AND THEREFORE WE'VE NOW HAVE TWO WE CANNOT PUT UP 'CAUSE WE, UH, THE, THE TEXT DOTS RULES ARE IN THE WAY. BUT THAT IF YOU LOOK IN THE LONGER TERM, IN FACT I'LL, I'LL TIE THIS INTO YOUR SUGGESTION THAT'S GONNA COME UP LATER. IF THERE IS LATER SOME KIND OF DEAL OF 61 71 8 TO ONE, UH, FOR DIGITALS IN THE FUTURE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM. THE TEXTILE RULES AS THEY CHANGE OR COULD BASICALLY SCUTTLE THE DEAL, IF YOU GET CERTIFIED, THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. OKAY. SO THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK TO US. DID THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION? WELL, I, I'D, I'D KIND OF LIKE TO KNOW WHERE THE CITY CODE AND TEXAS DIFFER. UM, HOWEVER I UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SAVES YOU HAVING TO DEAL WITH BOTH OF THEM AND, AND IT SAVES YOU MONEY. I MEAN, THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE. NOT MUCH. IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT MUCH. IT'S MORE THAN DEALING WITH THEM WITH TWO ENTITIES. NOT WELL, BUT IT, IT'S MORE ABOUT WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY DECIDE TO COME TO THE TABLE AND MAKE A DEAL, NOBODY IS GONNA MAKE A DEAL IN THE FUTURE IF THEY, YOU KNOW, YOU SHAKE HANDS, WE GOT AN AGREEMENT AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT AT THE TABLE, TABLE COMES IN AND OR YOUR DEAL. SO, YOU KNOW, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY CAN GO BACK BECAUSE THE STATE WON'T LET, THE CITY CAN'T DELIVER WHAT THEY PROMISED? DO THEY GET TO PUT UP ALL THOSE BILLBOARDS THAT THEY TOOK DOWN IN RETURN FOR THAT? AND I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO GO THERE AND CHAIR REAL QUICK TO WELL, YEAH, BUT COLLEEN, I'M SORRY, CHAIR REAL QUICK. JUST SO WE CAN KIND OF, COLLEEN, UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. WE'RE HAPPY TO PROVIDE A COMPARISON OF CITY AND STATE REQUIREMENTS WHEN WE PRESENT THIS TO Y'ALL. I THINK OVERALL CITIES WILL BE MORE RESTRICTED MOST THE TIME. SO, BUT, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHERE DIFFERENT. OKAY. WE'RE HAPPY TO PROVIDE THAT, UH, WHEN WE BRING THIS TO THE COMMITTEE. PERFECT. OKAY, NEXT ONE IS, UH, NUMBER FOUR. SO NUMBER FOUR, THIS IS THE, UH, REQUEST TO ADD ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, TO LOOK INTO FINDING WAYS TO ADD DIGITAL SIGNS BACK TO THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR FOR HILL COUNTRY. I KNOW ONE CITY STAFF STILL WANTS TO REACH OUT TO, UH, CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR TO GET SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT. AND ALSO LIDDEL TOY, HE'S TALKING WITH HIM LAST, HE'S KIND OF BOUNCING OUTTA STATE WITH SOME ITEM. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S SOMETHING WE WANT TO, DEPENDING, HIS ONLY AVAILABILITY IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS IS JULY, UH, JUNE 30TH. SO DEPENDING ON, I'M SORRY, JULY 1ST. SO DEPENDING ON WHEN WE MEET AGAIN, WE MIGHT OKAY, ADD THIS OR NOT. WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA TABLE THAT. AND THAT IS BASICALLY FOR EVERYBODY, IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS, THERE WERE DIGITAL SIGNS THAT WERE ALLOWED TO PUT UP ALREADY THAT BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW THAT THE CORRIDOR EXISTED. THE QUESTION THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET INTO IS, OKAY, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE WE GONNA ALLOW MORE AND IF, IF WE ARE GONNA ALLOW MORE, ARE THERE SEPARATE RULES THAT MIGHT BE ESTABLISHED WHERE THE MESSAGING HAS TO STAY UP FOR 24 HOURS OR WHATEVER, WHERE IT JUST BECOMES MORE LIKE A SIGN THAT'S ON A THING THAT CAN BE CHANGED VERSUS A DIGITAL BILLBOARD FOR AN ONSITE USE? UH, YES. PATTY. PATTY . SO MY QUESTION IS, IT STATES HERE THAT COUNCILMAN PIAS AGREES WITH THE CHANGE. DID THAT COME TO STAFF OR DID THAT COME FROM MR. TOY THAT CAME FROM THE APPLICANT? AND THAT'S WHERE STAFF WOULD LIKE TO REACH OUT TO COUNCILMAN. WE'RE GONNA TALK TO EVERYBODY BEFORE WE TAKE ANY ACTION TO SEE WHAT EVERYBODY REALLY THINKS FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH. I APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH. 'CAUSE I KNOW MR. ELIAS AND MR. NURNBERG WAS MY COUNCILMAN AT THE TIME OF THIS AND I KNOW THAT THEY HAD SPECIFIC OPINIONS ABOUT IT. SO I'D LIKE TO HEAR, THANK YOU MARK. STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S [01:30:01] MOUTH. AND MY OTHER QUESTION IS TO YOU STAFF RIGHT NOW IN THE CORRIDOR, WHEN A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER GOES IN AND DEVELOPS AN AREA LIKE THE RIM OR FARTHER OUT, UH, TOWARD OUR CITY LIMIT, ARE THEY NOT NOW ALLOWED TO DO SIGNAGE AT THE ENTRANCES TO THEIR DEVELOPMENT THAT'S MANAGED A MANAGED, UH, UH, SIGNAGE PROGRAM FOR THEIR DEVELOPMENTS WHERE THE CITY AGREES? YES. WHERE THEY COME TO YOU BECAUSE THEY'RE SIGNED THERE, THERE MAY NOT BE A LOT OF DIGITAL PRO PROLIFERATION OUT THERE, BUT THERE IS SIGNAGE TO DEVELOPMENTS CURRENTLY THERE? NO. THAT, THAT'S, THEY'RE ALL ALLOWED TO DO THAT. WHAT THIS IS SPECIFIC TO IS A DIGITAL, UH, AND, AND I CALL IT A CHANGING MESSAGE SITE. AND ARE THESE ON-PREMISE OR OFF-PREMISE? BOTH ON ALL ARE ON PREMISE. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THE PORSCHE SIGN THAT'S ON I 10 OR, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, I I I THINK THERE'S CONSENSUS AMONG THE GROUP THAT WE DON'T WANT ONE OF THOSE BLINKING SIGNS THAT CHANGES. THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE SOMETHING SHORT OF THAT THAT EVERYBODY COULD SAY? OKAY. AND I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GONNA GET THERE, BUT WE'LL SEE. AND WILL, UH, J B S A AND CAMP BULLIS, WILL THEY BE ABLE TO CHIME IN ON THIS? IT DOESN'T AFFECT THEM BECAUSE ALL THE SIGNS AND ALL THE LIGHTS HAVE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE DARK SKY RULES. I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I DO THINK THEY SHOULD BE NOTIFIED OF THIS POSSIBILITY BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE DARK SKY RULES AND YOU MAY HAVE SHROUDS AND HOODS, ET CETERA, BUT YOU DO GET LIGHT POLLUTION. IT'S INEVITABLE WHEN YOU HAVE A LOT OF LIGHTS. MY PERSONAL COMMENT, OKAY, A LETTER FROM LA DEL TOY THAT HE ASKED ME TO READ OUT ABOUT THIS SUBJECT. SAY THAT AGAIN? I HAVE A LETTER FROM LA DEL TOY, HE ASKED ME TO READ OUT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT. YEAH, WE'RE NOT GOING TO, WE'RE NOT. I, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS IF YOU JUST GIVE IT TO THE STAFF, THEY'LL EMAIL IT TO EVERYBODY. WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE THIS ACTION ITEM UP UNTIL, UH, STAFF CONTACTS THE COUNCIL PERSONS AND THE MAYOR. AND SO IF THAT IS OKAY. YEAH, I MEAN, AND ANDREW, I MEAN, RIGHT NOW WE'RE KIND OF JUST DISCUSSING AND TRYING TO SET UP WHEN WE ACTUALLY WANT TO REALLY DEL DELVE INTO THESE THINGS AND I THINK THAT'D BE A BETTER TIME AND ONE WE'LL DEFINITELY TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT LIDDELL'S AVAILABLE. BUT IF WE'RE RUNNING INTO SCHEDULING CONFLICTS, I UNDERSTAND HE'S KIND OF APPOINTED YOU AS HIS AS A SECOND TO THIS AND WE'LL MAKE SURE. YEAH, SO JUST GET IT TO THE STAFF, THEY'LL EMAIL IT OUT SO BY THE TIME WE GET IT, EVERYBODY'S HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT IT. IF THANK YOU, THAT'S OKAY. SO CHAIR, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THIS AS A CONSIDERATION FOR THE NEXT MEETING. WE'LL TRY TO NO, BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA NEED, AND WE, YEAH, WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF STUFF NEEDS TO, IT'S, IT'S NOT MY NECK THAT'S GONNA GET CHOPPED OFF IF IT'S WRONG. SO I WOULD SUGGEST WE DO ALL THE DUE DILIGENCE THAT WE NEED TO, TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS IT'S COMING AND, AND, AND JUST BECAUSE THEY NECESSARILY WANT IT OR DON'T WANT IT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE AS A COMMITTEE NEED TO DO WHAT WE, WHATEVER WE THINK IS BEST AND THEN THEY CAN MAKE A DECISION. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THE DECISION MAKER, BUT WE'RE JUST GONNA GIVE A RECOMMENDATION. YES. MAY I ADD SOME REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION? UM, COULD WE HAVE THE, THE, UM, DEFINITION OF WHY THAT GATEWAY CORRIDOR WAS ESTABLISHED AND THEN WHEN THE RESTRICTION WAS PUT ON FOR, TO RESTRICT ON PREMISE DI DIGITAL SIGNS? COULD WE HAVE THE MINUTES OF THOSE MEETINGS PLEASE? YES, MA'AM. I'LL LOOK UP THOSE TWO ORDINANCES AGAIN AND TRY TO FIND THE MEETINGS FOR THOSE MINUTES BECAUSE I THINK FOR THAT MEETING WILL CLARIFY FOR US. YOU, MS YOU KNOW, IT SAID SOMETHING ABOUT IT TOOK PLACE BEFORE THERE WAS MUCH DEVELOPMENT OUT THERE AND THERE WAS ALREADY QUITE A BIT OF DEVELOPMENT OUT THERE AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHY IT WAS CREATED WAS BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO KEEP IT FROM PROLIFERATING. YES MA'AM. YEAH, NO, HAPPY TO PULL THOSE MINUTES AND PROVIDE THAT TO THE COMMITTEE, BUT THEN WHEN WE DO BRING THAT FORWARD, OKAY, SO NUMBER EIGHT. SO NUMBER EIGHT, THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF SEVEN 13 SCIENCE AND GRAPHICS, L L C FROM CHRISTIE BARON STAFF FEELS, I THINK AT THE NEXT MEETING WE'D BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THIS ONE. THE, THE COMMITTEE DID ASK ONE ON THIS IS TRYING TO HAVE C P S AND SAS COME TO PRESENT, UH, TALK ABOUT IN EASEMENTS AND WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWED AND NOT ALLOWED. AND SO WE'RE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE NEXT TIMING OF THE NEXT MEETING, BUT WE CAN WORK TO HAVE C P S AND SALS BE HERE AND WE CAN PROBABLY PUT THIS ONE ON THAT AGENDA. OKAY. SO, SO HERE IS THE DIRECTION I, I WOULD GIVE C P S AND SAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME. I WOULD TELL THEM THAT [01:35:01] IT'S COMING UP AND IF THEY'RE NOT, IF THEY CANNOT PROVIDE A REPRESENTATIVE TO BE HERE, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ACTION. AND IF IT GETS APPROVED BY COUNSEL, THAT BECOMES THE LAW. 'CAUSE IT'S JUST NOT FAIR TO EVERYBODY TO HAVE TO BE HERE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ITEM AND IT'S NOT GONNA COME UP. SO THAT WOULD BE THE NEXT MEETING. AND SO NUMBER 20, UH, THIS ONE I THINK WE'D BE ABLE TO ADD TO THE AGENDA ITEM AS WELL. THIS ISN'T REALLY CHANGING CHAPTER 28, BUT THE TEMPORARY EVENT SIGN PERMIT APPLICATION, THIS ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT SIGNATURES ARE REQUIRED FOR ON-PREMISE VERSUS OFF-PREMISE. SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS ONE AS AN OFF-PREMISE SIGN. UH, BUT TRYING TO MODIFY IT TO WHERE THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE SAME PAPERWORK THAT, OR WE WOULD D S D STAFF WOULD ACCEPT THE SAME PAPERWORK FOR ON-PREMISE AS OR FOR OFF-PREMISE THAT WE CURRENTLY ACCEPT FOR ON-PREMISE, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT MORE EASY FOR THE INDUSTRY TO PROVIDE. UH, WE'VE SENT THAT TO LEGAL AND WE'LL GET WITH LEGAL, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO ISSUES THERE. BUT I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT CLEARED UP AND READY TO PRESENT TO THE NEXT MEETING. OKAY. BECAUSE I WOULD TELL YOU FROM THE LAST MEETING, THERE IS CLEAR CONSENSUS AMONG THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE THAT YOU SHOULD MAKE IT EASY AS POSSIBLE ON EVERYBODY. SO UNLESS THERE IS SOME SPECIFIC LEGAL REASON WHY YOU CAN'T, I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT WE FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO IT. PLEASE. UNDERSTOOD. AND THEN 17. SO 17, THIS ONE I THINK IS FAIRLY CLEAR AND STRAIGHTFORWARD, BUT THE REASON WE DIDN'T BRING IT FORWARD ON THIS AGENDA ITEM, IT KIND OF COMES BACK TO, UH, COMMITTEE MEMBER MICHAEL RUSS REQUESTS TO CLARIFY WHAT WORK REQUIRES PERMITS. SO THIS, THIS CHANGE IS WHAT IS WHEN IS REQUIRED TO BE A PERMITTED AND THUS BE REQUIRED TO BE INSTALLED OR BY A LICENSED CONTRACTOR WITH THE CITY OR REGISTERED CONTRACTOR WITH THE CITY. THE REASON THIS CHANGE WAS MADE, AND I THINK THE COMMITTEE ASKED FOR THIS CLARIFICATION IN THE LAST MEETING OF, OF GOING FROM A 15 SQUARE FOOT TO A 32 SQUARE FOOT SIGN NEEDING A PERMIT OR NOT FOR TEMPORARY SIGNS. THIS ORIGINALLY WAS UNDER THE 2017 IS WHEN THIS WAS MADE. AND THE REASON THEY MADE THIS CHANGE WAS UNDER THE 20 SEVENTEENS, THEY ACTUALLY INCREASED THE AMOUNT OF BOND REQUIRED FOR A CONTRACTOR TO PROVIDE WHEN THEY WERE BEING REGISTERED WITH THE CITY. WHICH, YOU KNOW, MADE IT FOR A LOT OF SMALLER CONTRACTORS OUT THERE, MORE COSTLY TO BE REGISTERED WITH THE CITY BY INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF BONDS THAT THEY WOULD'VE TO COVER. SO THE COMPROMISE WAS TO SAY, WELL, 32 SQUARE FOOT SQUARE FOOT SIGNS ARE KIND OF AN INDUSTRY STANDARD. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN BE DOING THAT WITHOUT HAVING TO GET REGISTERED WITH THE CITY. SO IT ALLOWED MORE PEOPLE TO BE ABLE BE ABLE TO CONTINUE DOING THEIR WORK WITHOUT BEING REGISTERED WITH US. SO THIS WAS REALLY MORE OF A CLARIFICATION. THIS IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY ALREADY PRACTICING. ANYTHING THAT'S 32 OR OR LESS DOES NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT. AND WE'RE JUST TRYING TO CLARIFY THAT, WHICH IS, BUT THAT IS THE REASON THAT WE ORIGINALLY WENT FROM 15 TO 32 IN 2017. OKAY. SO WILL YOU BRING THAT BACK NEXT MEETING? YEAH, WE'LL ADD THIS TO THE AGENDA. THIS IS BIANCA. I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. BECAUSE IT'S SPECIFICALLY TARGETING, UH, THE URBAN CORRIDORS. UM, CAN YOU ENSURE THAT YOU PRESENT THE MAP THAT YOU SHOWED EARLIER IN YOUR PRESENTATION AND SHOW THOSE URBAN CORRIDORS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? BECAUSE THERE'S VERY FEW OF THEM. UM, I HAVE STRONG OPPOSITION TO THE CHANGE. THANK YOU. UNDERSTOOD. HAPPY TO DO THAT. SO BIANCA, IS YOUR OPPOSITION TO IT THAT SOMEBODY'S GONNA BE REQUIRED TO GET A PERMIT OR THERE'RE GOING UP AT ALL? THERE'S JUST A LACK OF COMPLIANCE PERIOD. JUST LIKE WE SAW IN ANOTHER INSTANCE WHERE SIGNAGE WAS ALLOWED IN AN OVERLAY DISTRICT. AND SO, UM, I THINK KEEPING IT AT THE SMALLER DIMENSION IS, IS, IS APPROPRIATE AT THIS MOMENT. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO I I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY WHAT WE'RE DOING. IT, IT, THE, THE 30 THE, THE SIZE OF THE SIGN, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. ALL THIS DOES IS SAYS I NEED TO GET A PERMIT OR I DON'T NEED TO GET A PERMIT. RIGHT. IT DOESN'T CHANGE WHAT SIZE SIGN IS ALLOWED AT ALL. NO, IT DOESN'T. IT IT'S SAYING THAT IF YOU PUT ANYTHING LARGER THAN 15 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE, YOU HAVE TO GET A PERMIT. YOU HAVE TO GET A PERMIT. YEAH. MY CONCERN IS WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE SPECIFIC URBAN CORRIDORS, IT'S VERY UNIQUE AND IN THESE AREAS YOU HAVE SOME VERY SHALLOW RIGHT OF WAYS. YOU HAVE, UM, OBSTRUCTIONS, YOU HAVE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS THAN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CITYWIDE. OKAY. THAT HAD BEEN MY CONCERN ABOUT IT. THAT'S, THAT'S, YEAH, I STATED THAT MORE IN DETAIL IN THE LAST YEAH. MEETING, BUT I JUST FOR PERSPECTIVE 'CAUSE THAT THAT MAY BE A SEPARATE, IN OTHER WORDS, THE THE 32, THE FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN IS ALREADY ALLOWED [01:40:01] AND IT'S JUST A QUESTION, DO YOU HAVE TO COME IN AND GET A PERMIT FOR IT OR NOT GET A PERMIT? AND SO I UNDERSTAND. YEAH. OKAY. IS THIS THE ONLY PLACE WHERE WE ADDRESS MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS? SO I HAVE APPOINTED YOU TO CHAIR A TASK FORCE ON PERMIT REQUIREMENTS OR NOT, AND I COLLECTED A WHOLE BUNCH OF CARDS FROM PEOPLE. SO IF YOU CAN JUST KIND OF SET UP A MEETING WITH THOSE GROUPS AND I MEAN THE INFO, I'D LOVE TO YEAH. TAKE AN AX TO THAT. YEAH, NO, UH, CORRECT MIKE, IT'S NOT ON THIS LIST, BUT THE, AND THAT'S WHY I KIND OF HAVE, IT'S, IT'S STILL OUT THERE. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS DONE THROUGH SOME FORM OF MEANS AND WE'RE STILL WORKING WITH LEGAL ON WHAT IT'LL MOST LIKELY STILL HAVE TO BE SOME FORM OF OPENING MEETING AND WHAT, WHAT, HOW FAR THAT GOES, WHETHER IT NEEDS TO BE INTERPRETERS AND LIVE VIEW AND ALL THAT. YEAH, I DON'T, DON'T, I DON'T BECAUSE THE WORKING GROUP IS, I I HAVE A QUESTION FOR LEGAL PLEASE. SO IF IT IS JUST A STAKEHOLDER MEETING OF STAKEHOLDERS THAT HAVE SIGNED PERMITS AND PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT IT, THOSE MEETINGS HAPPEN ALL OVER THE CITY WITHOUT HAVING AN INTERPRETER, WITHOUT BEING IT ON TV. WHY DOES THIS, WHY IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT WHEN THEY'RE JUST GOING TO JUST HAVE A DISCUSSION AND BRING SOMETHING BACK TO THIS GROUP AS TO RECOMMENDED CHANGES? WELL, IF IT'S JUST A MATTER OF KIND OF COLLECTING INFORMATION, CAN THE INFORMATION JUST BE SUBMITTED? IT, IT'S, IT'S KIND OF THE, UH, THE DISCUSSION THAT GOES TO AN ITEM THAT WOULD BE ON THE AGENDA, YOU KNOW, TO MAKING A DECISION. SO IF IT'S JUST INFORMATION GATHERING, THEN, THEN THAT INFORMATION CAN BE SUBMITTED, THEN PRESENTED TO THE FOR DISCUSSION AT THE, UH, THIS COMMITTEE. SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY CAN MEET AND IT BE FACILITATED BY STAFF AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN ONE OF THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE MEETING? WELL, WHAT WOULD THE PURPOSE OF THE MEETING BE? TO HAVE A DISCUSSION TO GO THROUGH AND THEN SAY WHERE, WHERE DOES, WHERE THE, THERE MAY BE POTENTIALS TO BRING TO THIS GROUP RECOMMENDED CHANGES. WELL, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT. 'CAUSE IT, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT JUST WOULD BE, WOULD HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, IN, IN, FOR THIS MEETING. IF, IF IT'S INFORMATION GATHERING THAT'S GONNA BE USED BY THE, BY THE MEMBERS TO VOTE. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE SPECIFICS AND SEE WHAT THE PARAMETERS ARE. CAN MIKE HOST A, CAN MIKE HOST A MEETING AT HIS OFFICE WITH SOME OF THE STAKEHOLDERS TO HAVE A DISCUSSION? YEAH, IF IT'S INFORMATION GATHERING, THAT'S, YEAH. OKAY. WHICH MIKE YOU TALKING ABOUT? AND THEN ANYBODY ON THE COMMITTEE THAT WOULD LIKE TO GO, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT A VOTING MEMBER SO THAT WE DON'T GET TOO MANY OF THE VOTING MEMBERS THERE, BUT IF YOU'RE A NON-VOTING MEMBER, YOU'RE WELCOME TO ATTEND BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT VOTING. SO MY VOICE DOESN'T MATTER. NO, I'M KIDDING. . NO, IT DOES MATTER, BUT IT DOESN'T, I WOULD LIKE TO JOIN THE GROUP, SO IF YOU COULD INCLUDE ME. THANK YOU. OKAY. 18. I BELIEVE THAT ONE IS KIND OF DEAD BECAUSE, UH, I DON'T, I'M NOT, WE STAFF HAS REALLY NOT HAD A CHANCE TO FULLY GO INTO THIS ONE. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF THE, THE MORE SMALLER HANGING FLUTE ONES. UH, SO I MEAN, OKAY. SO CAN YOU DO ME A FAVOR? CAN YOU REACH OUT TO COUNCILMAN PERRY'S OFFICE AND HAVE THEM GIVE YOU A LIST OF FIVE SIGNS THAT THEY THINK ARE TOO BRIGHT? WE CAN PUT THAT REQUEST INTO COUNCILMAN PERRY. I THINK, I MEAN, RIGHT. YEAH. I I I WILL REACH OUT TO COUNCILMAN PERRY. MY UNDERSTANDING IS HE DOES HAVE A, UH, SOME LOCATIONS. SO SAY THAT AGAIN. HE DOES HAVE SOME LOCATIONS IS WHAT I'VE KIND OF HEARD THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE THAT HA I THINK HE'S EVEN REPORTED THEM TO 3 1 1. SO THERE COULD BE CASE HISTORY TOO. THANK YOU. YEAH, THERE IS, THERE IS FEW LOCATIONS THAT I'M AWARE OF. UH, HE REPORTS THEM DIRECTLY TO ME OR TO MIKE SHANNON. UH, BUT I'LL ASK FOR THE TOP FIVE I GUESS. YEAH. AND, AND THEN WE'LL SEND, WE CAN SEND A SIGN INSPECTOR OUT THERE WITH THE METER TO SAY, YEAH. AND WERE THEY ALL BELOW THE, OKAY. YEAH. E EVERY TIME WE GET A COMPLAINT FROM THE COUNCILMAN OR ANYBODY ELSE, OBVIOUSLY WE SEND AN INSPECTOR AND WE GET THE READING. UH, OKAY. SOME OF THEM PASSED OR PASSING. UH, SOME OF THEM HAD ISSUES AND WE HAD TO ASK THE OWNER TO REDUCE THE BRIGHTNESS. OKAY. AND THEN CAN YOU ALSO ASK, WHEN YOU CALL HIM WHAT LEVEL HE WOULD LIKE IT REDUCED TO? BECAUSE I THINK NONE OF US HAVE A CLUE WHAT [01:45:01] THAT IS. ISN'T THAT ALREADY IN CODE? YEAH, IT, WELL, NO, HE'S, THE, THE REQUEST IS THAT THE BRIGHTNESS SHOULD BE ADJUSTED AND I AM ASSUMING HE FEELS THAT IT SHOULD BE ADJUSTED DOWN, NOT UP. AND SO YEAH, THERE IS A NUMBER IN CODE, BUT, BUT IF HE WANTS IT ADJUSTED, WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT WHAT HE WOULD LIKE IT ADJUSTED TO, AND I THINK HE WANTS IT IN A SPECIFIC AREA, NOT CITYWIDE ADJACENT TO CAMP BULLIS. IS THAT MM-HMM. . BUT THAT'S ALREADY, THAT'S ALREADY COVERED BY THE DARK SKY. YEAH. SO SOME, SOME OF THE SIGNS THAT HE BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION, THEY'RE ACTUALLY, UM, NOT WITHIN FIVE MILES OF ANY MILITARY BASE OR, OR, UH, SO NOT NECESSARILY THE, YOU KNOW, THE DARK SKY I GUESS. UM, SO THIS MAY BE ONE WHERE SOMEBODY IS NOT FOLLOWING WHAT THE CURRENT ORDINANCE SAYS. THE CURRENT ORDINANCE IS FINE, BUT WE'RE GONNA GET THAT AT OUR NEXT MEETING. IF I MAY ADD, MY DAUGHTER LIVES IN COUNCILMAN, UH, PERRY'S DISTRICT AND POINTS OUT TO ME REGULARLY THAT SOME OF THE SIGNS ARE OUT OF COMPLIANCE. SO WELL THEN SHE, SHE DIAL CAN WE TRY MAKE AGENDA ITEM FOR THE NEXT MEETING? YEAH. 'CAUSE I'M NOT SURE IF STAFF WILL BE, DEPENDING ON WHEN THE NEXT MEETING IS AND WHAT WE'RE, THIS SEEMS LIKE A FAIRLY BIG, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PREVENT MORE INFORMATION TO THIS ONE, BUT WE WANT THIS TO BE AN ACTIONABLE ITEM AT THE NEXT MEETING OR MORE JUST STAFF TRY TO PREPARE AND PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF INFORMATION. YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS, IS ARE WE GONNA ADDRESS IT OR NOT? WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE ACTION, BUT IF, IF THE PROBLEM IS, IS THE SIGN IS TOO BRIGHT BECAUSE IT IS OUTSIDE OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE CURRENT ORDINANCE, THEN WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE SIGN ORDINANCE. IF THE SIGN IS TOO BRIGHT IN THEIR OPINION BECAUSE, AND IT IS IN COMPLIANCE, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION BECAUSE WE MAY SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA MAKE THE BRIGHTNESS LESS. BUT I, I AM NOT A LIGHTING ENGINEER. SO THAT IS, AND IN, IN ADDITION TO THIS CHAIR, UH, SO STAFF HAS BEEN WORKING TO ACCUMULATE ALL THE INFORMATION WE HAD FROM TAKING READINGS AND WE'RE HAPPY TO PRESENT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE AS WELL OF WHAT READINGS WE'VE TAKEN BOTH ON COMPLAINTS AND ON PERMITTED SIGNS TO, TO BE PASSED AND APPROVED, UH, FOR USE. OKAY. 21. WHERE, WHERE ARE WE ON THAT? IS THIS, ARE Y'ALL GONNA BE READY WITH SOMETHING FOR NEXT MEETING? YEAH, THEY'RE NOT HERE CURRENTLY. WE'LL WORK WITH THEM. I MEAN, GENERALLY WHAT DO THEY WANT? NO, I WAS , I CAN'T REACH AROUND ME. YOU LOOKED AT ME . YOU KNOW WHAT, I'LL, I'LL TALK TO THEM. I'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THEM PRESENT SIMILAR, UH, TO THE PRESENTATION TODAY. IT PROBABLY WON'T BE AN AGENDA ITEM, BUT THEY DO HAVE A PRESENTATION. I'LL, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THEM PRESENT AND THEN THE COMMITTEE CAN GIVE US SOME GUIDANCE THAT'S FINE. ON HOW THEY WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD ON THAT ONE. SO WHY DON'T WE SCHEDULE THAT FOR NEXT MEETING FOR THEM TO MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION. AND IF YOU WILL DO THIS, PUT THEM UP AT THE, AT THE TOP OF THE, THE, LIKE WE DID TODAY, THE YES SIR FIRST. YES SIR. YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT. OKAY. 23. SO 23, 24 AND 25 ARE RELATIVELY NEW. AND I HAVE UPDATED THEM, COLLEEN, FROM YOUR ORIGINAL THAT I KNOW YOU SENT ME SOME EMAILS TO CLARIFY THAT AND WHAT'S ONLINE NOW REFLECTS THAT AS WELL. UH, SO I GUESS COLLEEN, AND DO YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THIS ONE? MICROPHONE? CAN YOU MICROPHONE COLLEEN? YEAH, PRESS THE BUTTON AND, AND JUST IF YOU'LL, WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE ACTION TODAY, BUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO GET A A LITTLE BRIEF OVERVIEW OF WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT WE WANT TO ACCOMPLISH. UH, NINE ONE IS BASICALLY TO INSTITUTE AN ANNUAL INSPECTION FEE FOR ON-PREMISE DIGITAL SIGNS. UM, FROM WHAT I SEE DRIVING AROUND THE CITY, THE OVERLY BRIGHT SIGNS DON'T APPEAR TO BE THE, FOR THE MOST PART THE BILLBOARDS AND THE OFF-PREMISE SIGNS, IT'S THE ON-PREMISE SIGNS. SO I'M SUGGESTING THAT, UM, THAT THEY, YOU KNOW, WE INSTITUTE A FEE SO THAT THEY HAVE, HAVE AT LEAST AN ANNUAL, UM, INSPECTION, UNLESS IT'S A SIGN THAT, UM, CAN'T, [01:50:01] CAN'T BE CHAINED, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT A SET AMOUNT OF LUMENS THAT IS, UM, OR LIKE A GAS SIGN THAT HAS TO BE CHANGED MANUALLY. I MEAN MANUALLY ON THE COMPUTER OF A GAS PRICE SIGN OR SOMETHING. UM, JUST SO THAT, UM, HOPEFULLY IT, IT GOES BACK TO THE COMPLIANCE ISSUE. UM, AND WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH NOISE, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S AND WE JUST WENT THROUGH ALL THAT WITH THE SIX MONTH STUDY. SO, UM, SO IS YOUR, IS YOUR PROBLEM THAT THEY'RE TOO BRIGHT OR THE MESSAGING IS NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH, IT'S MAINLY THAT IT'S TOO BRIGHT, NOT ON ALL SIGNS, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS THE BAD ACTORS THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEMS AND, AND ALSO SOME, SOME OF THEM IT'S THE FLASHING AND, AND SUCH. YEAH, I, I MEAN I THINK IT'S, IT'S AN OKAY IDEA. HOWEVER, I'LL CHIME IN FOR MY FRIEND MIKE WHO'S GETTING READY, YOU KNOW, TO, TO PUT A TAX ON EVERY SINGLE SIGN OWNER IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO BECAUSE FIVE PEOPLE ARE NOT DOING IT RIGHT. I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS JUST, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TO INSTITUTE SOME KIND OF PENALTY WHEN IT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S REPEATED VIOLATIONS BECAUSE MY GUESS IS, IS THE SAME 25 PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING IT WRONG ALL THE TIME AND THE MINUTE THE SIGN INSPECTOR COMES OUT AND INSPECT, THEY CRANK IT OR SOMEBODY NEW. AND SO MAYBE WE TREAT IT LIKE WE TREAT VACANT LOTS WHERE, YOU KNOW, AFTER YOU'RE CITED ONCE AND YOU FIX IT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE, IF IT HAPPENS AGAIN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SUBJECT TO AN IMMEDIATE CITATION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WOULD THAT BE BECAUSE TO, TO MAKE I UNDER, WE HAVE A BUNCH OF THESE SIGNS TO MAKE US COME FILL OUT A PIECE OF PAPER AND WAIT FOR AN INSPECTOR AND PAY ANOTHER FEE WHEN WE'RE BEING FEED TO DEATH ALL OVER THE PLACE. AND I KNOW THAT SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE, UH, CHRISTY BARON. UM, I JUST WANNA SAY THAT WE'VE RUN INTO THE SAME KIND OF ISSUE WITH THE EVENT SIGNS AND TO ONCE THAT ON-PREMISE, LIKE SIGN GET BOUGHT THAT SIGN OPERATOR, I WOULD ASSUME LIKE THAT'S, THAT SIGN IS THEIRS AND THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. SO TRYING TO GET THESE RE LIKE RE PERMITTED OR RE REINSPECTED, WHO'S GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF THAT? IS IT GOING TO BE THE ACTUAL OWNER OF THE SIGN NOW OR THE SIGN COMPANY THAT, THAT INSTALLED IT ORIGINALLY? WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THAT? WHO HAS TO APPLY FOR THE REINSPECTION? TRY WHO HAS TO DO ALL OF THAT? THE ENFORCEMENT OF IT IS, I WOULD SEE BEING AN ISSUE FROM THE CITY STANDPOINT, I THINK, AND I, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHY A FEE HELPS BECAUSE IT HELPS PAY FOR THOSE SALARIES. JUST AS WE FOUND OUT ON THE NOISE ORDINANCE, WE DON'T HAVE THE STAFF TO MONITOR IT. SO, UM, I, I'M, I'M OPEN TO OTHER SOLUTIONS, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS PROGRESSIVE PENALTIES, UM, AND ALL, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE STAFF PARTICULARLY SINCE A LOT OF THAT HAS TO BE DONE AT NIGHT. RIGHT. BUT MY QUESTION IS, IS IF IT'S UP AND NOBODY'S COMPLAINING ABOUT IT AND NO ONE CALLED 3 1 1 TO REPORT IT, DOES IT REALLY MATTER TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING AROUND IT OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD? HUH? NO, IT DOESN'T. I MEAN IT'S, IF IT'S IN COMPLIANCE AND NO ONE'S COMPLAINING, THEN IF, IF IT'S IN COMPLIANCE AND NOBODY'S COMPLAINING, WHY PUT EVERYBODY THROUGH THE HA BE, BECAUSE I AS A COMPANY THAT HAS TO GO GET A MAINTENANCE PERMIT FROM THE CITY ONCE A YEAR, IT IS THE MOST, YOU KNOW, AND WE, WE HAVE TO DO A BUNCH OF 'EM. SO THIS WOULD BE EVERY SIGN WE OWN, YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO THE SAME THING. AND THEY'RE NOT SET UP TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT REGISTERED IN THEIR SYSTEM TO DO THAT KIND OF THING. AND NORMALLY IT'S HANDLED BY THE CO COMPLIANCE OFFICER THAT COMES OUT AND SEES SOMETHING OR SOMEONE MAKES A COMPLAINT AND SO IT'S COMPLAINT DRIVEN RATHER THAN REGULATORY. AND SO IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S JUST THE PAIN. OKAY. I, I UNDERSTAND THAT. SO THEN LET'S TALK ABOUT INCREASING PENALTIES INSTEAD. OKAY. YOU KNOW, I, I, I'M FINE WITH THAT. SO MAYBE AT THE NEXT MEETING WE GET WHAT THE PROCESS IS, EXPLAIN NOT, NOT NECESSARILY AS AN ACTION ITEM, BUT OKAY, SOMEBODY CALLS IN A COMPLAINT, IT HAPPENS ONCE, TWICE, THREE TIMES IS, WHAT'S THAT PROCESS? DOES THAT WORK, COLLEEN? THAT WOULD BE OKAY. YES. OKAY. PERFECT. MR. CHAIR. YES, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT NOW THAT MIKE'S IN THE ROOM, EVERYTHING ON OUR AGENDA [01:55:01] RELATES TO MORE SIGNS. YOU'RE LOOKING AT DIGITAL SIGNS, YOU'RE LOOKING AT LUMENS. SO I WOULD URGE THE CITY, THIS BEING YOUR DEPARTMENT, THAT THERE DOES NEED TO BE AN EXPANSION OF STAFF TO BE ABLE TO MONITOR AND REVIEW EXACTLY WHAT COLLEEN HAS BROUGHT UP. YEAH, I DON'T WANNA PUT THE ONUS ON THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE SIGN OWNER OR THE SIGN MAINTAINER OR ERECTOR, BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME AS THE CITY GROWS AND MORE SIGNS GO UP, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO HAVE MORE STAFF. SO I WOULD JUST SAY NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, ADD MORE, ADD MORE SIGN INSPECTOR AND EXPAND YOUR DEPARTMENT TO BE ABLE TO, BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY GONNA GET MORE. NOT GONNA GET LESS. MY LITTLE SOAPBOX COMMENTARY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU BIANCA. I WAS JUST GONNA ADD, MAYBE IT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL, COLLEEN, AND I'M WELCOME TO JOIN YOU TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH STAFF AS YOU PULL YOUR NUMBERS TOGETHER. WHAT, WHAT IS 3 1 1 TELLING YOU ABOUT THE NUMBER OF VIOLATIONS THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED FOR SIGNAGE, SPECIFICALLY DIGITAL SIGNAGE AND WHAT WAS, WHAT WAS DONE? BECAUSE I KNOW I HAVE STRUGGLED FOR COMPLIANCE JUST ON STATIC SIGNS AND GETTING THINGS ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH THE 3 1 1 SYSTEM. SO I THINK IT'S A BIGGER ISSUE TO COLLEEN'S POINT. UM, AND THEN RESPECTFUL OF MARK'S COMMENTS OF NOT PROVIDING THAT ADDITIONAL FEE TOO, IF IT'S REALLY THE, THE ORDINANCE AS IT'S WRITTEN TODAY WOULD WORK IF WE HAD PROPER ENFORCEMENT, PROPER COMPLIANCE. AND THEN TO UM, PATTY'S POINT, IT'S BUDGET INPUT TIME. SO EVERYBODY CONTACT YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT YOU'D WANNA SEE IN THE UPCOMING BUDGET TO THIS POINT OF EXPANDING PERSONNEL TO BE ABLE TO DO BETTER ENFORCEMENT. MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A SIDE MEETING ABOUT THAT OR LIKE AS A SUBCOMMITTEE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. THANK YOU. AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE THE SIGN PROVIDER. I ASSUME THERE'S SOME PROCESS ON ON-PREMISE DIGITAL SIGNAGE WHERE IT'S INSPECTED TO START WITH WHEN IT'S INSTALLED. WHEN IT'S INSTALLED. SO IN MY OPINION, AFTER THAT IT IT'S THE SIGN OWNER WHO HAS THE CONTROL AND HIS, HIS PHONE OR SOMETHING. CORRECT. AND, AND SO TO ME THAT WOULD BE THE PERSON, RIGHT? BUT THEY'RE, AND I DON'T THINK IT WOULD NECESSARILY REQUIRE GETTING A NEW PERMIT EACH TIME. IT WOULD JUST REQUIRE SOMEBODY FROM THE CITY GOING OUT THERE AND CHECKING IT AND PREFERABLY WHEN THEY DON'T KNOW YOU'RE COMING. YEAH, NO, THAT'S, THEY'RE WELCOME TO INSPECT ANYTIME THEY WANT THEY DRIVE BY, IT'S ON THE STREET. IT'S, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN GO UP TO THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY AND DO IT. THE PROBLEM IS, IS TO HAVE ANOTHER 10,000, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVING TO REGISTER ON GO BUILD SAN ANTONIO, WHICH YOU KNOW, IS NOT FOR A PERSON THAT DOESN'T USE IT REGULARLY IS NOT EASY AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE MISERABLE AND IT'S GONNA CREATE AS MANY HEADACHES. SO I THINK IF WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT HOW TO TRIGGER IT FROM AN ENFORCEMENT TO THE BAD ACTORS, THAT WOULD BE A PLACE TO START. AND WE CAN ALWAYS, IF THAT DOESN'T WORK THE NEXT TIME AROUND, GO LOOK AT SOMETHING ELSE. AND I'M CERTAINLY NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYBODY HAVING TO RE PERMIT. IT WOULD SIMPLY BE A VIOLATION OF YOUR CURRENT PER YEAH, BUT THERE IS NO, THEY, THEY INSTALL THE SIGN, THEY HAVE THE CURRENT PERMIT. WHEN IT'S INSTALLED AND PUT UP, IT'S THE PERMIT'S DONE, IT'S FINISHED, IT'S OVER. SO IT TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, EVERY SINGLE PERSON AND THERE'S PROBAB SIGNS THAT I SELL ASSIGNED TO HAS TO THEN GO REGISTER IN THE SYSTEM A SELL A AND LET ME TELL YOU, THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. IT, IT'S, I CAN'T EVEN GET MY CLIENTS TO DO IT FOR THEIR MANY SIGNS TO DO IT. IF YOU'RE TALKING LIKE A OFF-PREMISE BILLBOARD TYPE SITUATION WHERE THEY OWN THE SIGNS THEN, BUT YEAH, SO, SO I, I THINK THIS IS STILL TO THE CODE COMPLIANCE AND I THINK OVERALL, YOU KNOW, I'M A PERF PERFECT EXAMPLE OF JUST THIS LAST WEEK. IF WE HAVE A BILLBOARD ON SOME PROPERTY CODE COMPLIANCE CALL ME. HE DIDN'T KNOW THAT I'M ON THIS COMMITTEE AND THEY SAID, HEY, THERE'S A TREE TREE FALLING DOWN. YOU'VE GOT A FENCE THAT'S MESSED UP. I SAID, I'LL GET IT, YOU KNOW, AS SOON AS I CAN. WELL, THREE DAYS LATER HE CALLED ME AGAIN. HE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT TREE THAT WELL, I GOT IT DONE 'CAUSE HE CALLED ME THREE TIMES. 'CAUSE THEN IT WAS, SO EVERYTHING YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I AGREE NOT TO PENALIZE EVERYBODY OUT THERE FOR THE FEW BAD APPLES OR SO THAT DO SOMETHING, BUT MAKE US DO WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO DO OR MAKE THOSE PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY'VE GOTTA DO. AND I THINK THEY'RE DOING THAT. I MEAN, MAYBE A COUPLE MORE MIGHT GET TO HIRE SOME MORE PEOPLE, A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOKING FOR A JOB. UH, BUT JUST HAVE 'EM KEEP DOING WHAT THEY'RE DOING BUT DON'T PENALIZE EVERYBODY THAT HAS A SIGN. I AGREE. SO LET ME JUST JUMP IN. SO DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, HAVING MORE STAFF, WE ALL APPRECIATE THAT. BUT [02:00:01] IN REALITY, LOOKING AT THE DATA WE HAVE EVERY CALL THAT WE GET IN REGARDS TO DIGITAL SIGN ISSUE, WE DO DISPATCH INSPECTORS AT NIGHT TO GO AND INSPECT IT AND GET THE READINGS. AND IF THE SIGN MEETS CODE, THEN WE CLOSE THE CASE. IF THE SIGN DOES NOT MEET CODE, WE REACH OUT TO THE OWNER AND NOT YOU SPECIFICALLY THE OWNER OF THE SIGN AND WE TELL THEM THEY NEED TO MODIFY IT OR LOWER THE BRIGHTNESS. AND AGAIN, WE GO BACK AND REINSPECT AGAIN TO MAKE SURE THEY COMPLIED. SO, I MEAN, I THINK THE PROCESS IS IN PLACE RIGHT NOW, AND WE DID COLLECT THE DATA SO WE CAN, I GUESS, SHOW YOU THAT DATA AT SOME POINT WHERE WE INSPECTED EVERY CALL WE RECEIVED AND WHAT WAS THE RESULT AS WELL. OKAY. 9.2, DO YOU WANT TO INCREASE THE DISTANCE TO 1500 FEET, INCLUDING ACROSS THE HIGHWAY? WHAT IS THE CURRENT I WOULD GOING OUT FRONT PRESENTATION ON WHAT THEY SAID THEY WANTED, YOU KNOW, ADOPTED THEIR, THEIR, UM, PROPOSALS ARE ADDING THOSE LINES. COLLEEN, CAN YOU USE YOUR MIC SO THE PEOPLE AT HOME CAN HEAR IT? THEY DON'T HEAR YOUR COMMENTS WHEN THEY'RE WATCHING LIVE. AND SO IT'S JUST DEAD AIRSPACE. THANK YOU. COLLEEN WAGA PACK. UM, JUST, UM, I BASED THIS OFF OF, OF OUTFRONT MEDIA'S PROPOSAL. THAT WAS THE DISTANCES I BELIEVE THAT THEY PUT IN THEIR PROPOSAL FOR, UM, ADDING DIGITAL SIGNAGE. SO, UM, TO ME, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S THE RIGHT DISTANCE WE SHOULD HAVE, WHETHER IT'S WHETHER WE ADD DIGITAL SIGNAGE OR NOT. OKAY. SO 24 IS TIED TO 21, CORRECT? YES. NO, IT, IT COULD BE INDEPENDENT OF. OKAY. SO WHAT DID, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT FOR SPACING FOR DIGITAL SIGNS IS? IT IS 2000 FEET. SO YOU'RE, YOU WANNA MAKE IT LESS, IT'S 2000, CORRECT. UM, I'M HAPPY TO PULL THAT SECTION UP. I'M SURE THEY WOULD BE HAPPY TO MAKE IT SHORTER. WHAT, WHAT IT IS 2000 LEWIS DELLA TORY. IT'S THREE 2000. SAME SIDE OF THE ROAD THOUGH. OKAY. OKAY. SO 24 IS OFF THE LIST AT THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT WHO MADE IT 25. SO AS I READ THIS, WHAT YOU WANT TO TRY TO DO IS, IS MAKE IT EQUITABLE BETWEEN THE PERSON WHO HAS ONE OR TWO VERSUS SOMEBODY THAT OWNS A HUNDRED. MY POSITION IS IF WE ARE GOING TO ADD DIGITAL SIGNAGE, WE NEED TO MAKE IT EQUITABLE. SO THAT ALL, SO TELL ME WHAT EQUITABLE MEANS TO YOU SO THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND. O OKAY. I, I'M TALKING ABOUT, SIMILAR TO THE TRADE OUT WE DID LAST TIME WHEN WE ADDED, UH, DIGITAL SIGN FACES TO THE EXISTING DIGITAL, UH, STRUCTURES AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME WHO DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH, UM, OF THE LARGE BILLBOARDS IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE. AND THIS WOULD PROVIDE A MEANS FOR THEM TO PARTICIPATE. SO MY FIRST CHOICE WOULD BE NO MORE DIGITAL SCIENCE. I'LL, I'LL BE, I'LL LAY THAT OUT THERE, BUT IF SO, I THINK IT SHOULD BE EQUITABLE. AND THAT, UM, THERE, THERE SHOULD BE SOME DISCRETION ON WHERE THE SIGNS COME DOWN FROM AND WHAT SIZE THEY'RE, OKAY. SO LET ME, AND I'M GONNA ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS, AND I DON'T, I'M NOT PICKING ON YOU, BUT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND, SO IF I OWN, WHAT, WHAT IS THE CURRENT REQUIREMENT? HOW MANY DO I HAVE TO TAKE DOWN TO GET ONE? THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT, NO DIGITAL SIGNS ARE PERMITTED. NO NEW DIGITAL UNDER THE CURRENT CODE. DIGITAL SIGNS. SO EVERY TIME YOU WANT TO INCREASE YOUR DIGITAL SIGN, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A ONE Z TWO Z DEAL WITH THE CITY TO SAY, THIS IS OUR OFFER UP TILL NOW. THAT IS THE WAY IT'S OPERATED. YES. OKAY. SO LET, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. IS THAT FAIR TO HAVE TO NEGOTIATE EVERY SINGLE TIME? OR SHOULD WE COME UP WITH A POLICY? I MEAN, DIGITAL SIGNS ARE HERE TO SAY THAT IS WHERE IF YOU DRIVE ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, WHICH, YOU KNOW, FOR THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO IN MY VOLUNTEER TRAVEL, DIGITAL SIGNS ARE EVERYWHERE. AND, AND [02:05:01] THEY'RE ACTUALLY, TO ME, AND THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL VIEW, MUCH MORE VISUALLY APPEALING THAN, THAN THE OLD BILLBOARD SIGNS. EVERYBODY SAYS THEY'RE MORE DISTRACTING, BUT I, I AM A BILLBOARD READER. SO WHEN THEY PUT UP THAT BILLBOARD THAT HAS THE ITTY BITTY PRINT ON IT THAT YOU CAN'T READ IT, I'M PAYING ATTENTION TO READ WHAT THE THING IS VERSUS SEEING AN AD. SO I, I PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE A LITTLE MORE. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU WOULD BE IS SHOULD WE COME UP WITH JUST A POLICY THAT SAYS, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA DO A DIGI, WE'RE GONNA REDUCE THE NUMBER OF SIGNS IN SAN ANTONIO BILLBOARDS AND HERE, AND, BUT THEY MAY ALL END UP BEING DIGITAL SIGNS, BUT IS THAT WORTH THE TRADE OFF FOR GETTING A LOT MORE SIGNS DOWN? IT MIGHT, IT MIGHT NOT BE, BUT, UM, I, I, TO ME, UM, THE OUT FRONT PROPOSAL WAS NOT PALATABLE, SO I WAS TRYING TO PROVIDE SOME OTHER OPTION. OKAY. CAN I DUNNO IF THIS IS RELEVANT. CAN, CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE RELATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OF A DIGITAL SIGN VERSUS A REGULAR BILLBOARD THAT YOU HAVE TO DRIVE OUT TO AND PRINT ON THE TARP AND PAY SOMEBODY TO GO OUT THERE? YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE, UM, ENVIRONMENTALLY EFFICIENT TO, TO JUST BE ABLE TO CHANGE IT DIGITALLY. I KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT ENERGY, BUT AS FAR AS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CARBON FOOTPRINT AND STUFF LIKE THAT, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT TO SPEAK INTELLIGENTLY. AND THAT'S VERY RARELY I'LL SAY THAT. . WELL, I'M, I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A, HERE, IF YOU HAVE A BILLBOARD, THAT MEANS SOMEBODY'S GOTTA DRIVE OUT THERE TO CHANGE IT. SOMEBODY HAS TO CLIMB UP ON A LADDER TO GET THERE TO CHANGE THE PAPER. YOU'RE MAKING PAPER PRODUCT THAT YOU'RE THROWING IN THE LANDFILLS, YOU'RE, YEAH, IT'S ALL VINYL PRODUCT. BUT YES. SO NOW WE'RE DOING PLASTIC THAT GOES INTO THE, IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT RECYCLABLE. OKAY. BUT YES, WE'RE USING VINYL. YEAH, BUT, AND WE DO. YEAH. SO, SO MY MY POINT IS THAT I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A DISCUSSION ON IS IF YOU COULD GET HALF OF THE SIGNS IN SAN ANTONIO TAKEN DOWN, BUT THE TRADE OFF IS THE REST THAT ARE REMAINING ARE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS. IS THAT GOOD OR BAD? I THINK THAT'S NOT JUST FOR ME TO DECIDE. I THINK THAT'S, WELL NO, BUT I CITY NO, I I KNOW CITY CITIZENS TO DECIDE, RIGHT? BUT WE ARE THE CITIZENS THAT ARE BEING ASKED TO TACKLE THAT ISSUE. AND THEN ONCE WE TACKLE IT, EVERYBODY WILL HAVE A, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN SHOW UP AT THE MEETING AT THE TIME WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION, OR THEY CAN TALK ABOUT IT TO THEIR COUNCILMEN LATER. BUT WE HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH GOING THROUGH AND MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS. I THINK THIS IS ONE IMPORTANT ONE THAT WE, YOU KNOW, SO IF YOU COULD TAKE DOWN, YOU KNOW, 50% OF THE SIGNS AND TRADE IT OUT WITH 50% DIGITAL, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING GOOD OR BAD? AND, AND BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING TO THE COMMITTEE FOR IS, AND THE PEOPLE WHO ATTEND THE MEETING IS JUST FEEDBACK. YOU KNOW, NOT YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT HERE REPRESENTING A GROUP. YOU'RE HERE REPRESENTING YOURSELF. SO, AND, AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE GROUP BACKGROUND, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GIVE US, YOU KNOW, YOUR WISDOM. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR IS WISDOM ON, ON TRYING TO BE SOLOMON, YOU KNOW, AND, YOU KNOW, NOT SPLIT THE BABY IN HALF, BUT, BUT JUST TO, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO SAY, OKAY, WHAT'S, WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE CITY? SO IN MY OPINION, I WOULD RATHER DRIVE AROUND A CITY THAT HAD ALL DIGITAL BILLBOARDS AND LESS OF THEM THAN I WOULD ALL THESE BILLBOARDS UP EVERYWHERE AROUND. AND, BUT THAT'S MY PERSONAL BELIEF. AND, AND SO WE'RE GONNA, ALL THIS WOULD GET IT FOR YOU. YEAH. BUT, AND I'M, YOU KNOW, YES, IF WE COULD CUT 'EM IN HALF, BUT I WANT SPECIFICS ON WHERE SIGNAGE WOULD COME DOWN AND SIZE OF SIGNAGE AS WELL. YEAH. AND IT COULD BE THAT IT HAS TO COME DOWN IN THE SAME CORRIDOR THAT IT CAME THERE, BUT, BUT GOING BACK TO YOUR LAST PART, I THINK WE ALSO, FOR THOSE COMPANIES THAT ARE NOT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIG OPERATORS THAT HAVE HUNDREDS OF SIGNS, SO IF I HAVE ONE OR TWO SIGNS, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHANGE THOSE. CHANGE THOSE, RIGHT. WELL, AND, AND WE MAY, AND WE MAY SET, YOU KNOW, BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF SIGNS YOU HAVE, THERE'S A DIFFERENT SLIDING SCALE OF WHAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE DOWN OR, I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS WE CAN GO, BUT I THINK IN PRINCIPLE WE NEED TO START OUT WITH A DISCUSSION OF DO WE WANT TO GO THERE OR DO WE [02:10:01] JUST WANT TO PUN, OKAY. BECAUSE IF WE WANT PUNT, THERE'S NO POINT IN HAVING THE DISCUSSION. BUT IF WE WANT TO TACKLE THAT AS PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, AND, AND FIGURE OUT A WAY WHERE IT'S WIN-WIN FOR EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEN IT'S WORTH DOING THAT. BIANCA, I THINK IT'S BENEFICIAL BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH DIGITAL BILLBOARDS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED BY AGREEMENTS, INDIVIDUAL AGREEMENTS PER SE. AND THEY WERE UNIQUE BASED ON THE INFORMATION. UH, AND THERE WERE THREE INSTANCES, THE ORIGINAL CLAUSE THAT ALLOWED THE INTRODUCTION TO BILLBOARDS, THE CLEAR CHANNEL PROPOSAL TO DOUBLE SIDE, AND THEN THE OUT FRONT REQUEST THAT WENT TO CITY COUNCIL SO THAT THEY COULD GET THEIR DIGITAL BILLBOARD. AND SO WHEN THOSE AGREEMENTS OCCURRED, THE LOCATIONS OF THE TAKE DOWNS WERE NOT CLEARLY DELINEATED AT THAT TIME. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK HER POINT IS VALID IS THAT WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THESE ONE-OFF DEALS, THERE'S NOTHING THAT CODIFIES THAT SAYS, HEY, DID ALL THOSE TAKE DOWNS OCCUR? AND UH, IS THE STRUCTURE STRUCTURALLY SOUND WHAT CHANGED WHEN THOSE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS WERE INTRODUCED IN THOSE LOCATIONS? AND MARKET SHARE? BECAUSE MARKET SHARE HAS INFLUENCED THE CONDITION OF WHO GOT A DIGITAL BILLBOARD IN THE AREA AND WHO DIDN'T. AND THEN OF COURSE, WE'RE ONLY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND THERE ARE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THAT EXIST WITHIN OUR, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WRAP AROUND AND THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AGREEMENTS AND UM, WE SEE DIGITAL PRODUCTS IN THOSE LOCATIONS. AND SO I THINK IT'S WORTH HAVING AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT FIRST DIGITAL, UH, DEAL PER SE, THE SECOND PROPOSAL AND THE THIRD PROPOSAL, AND THEN WHAT WAS THE END RESULT. SO MAYBE A BASELINE CONVERSATION TO GET US TO THE CONVERSATION POINT OF WHERE SHE'S AT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE MISSING THAT CONTEXTUAL HISTORY. NO, THAT'S FAIR. UM, SO THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT, AT LEAST FOR STAFF AND, AND HER EQUITABLE ISSUE IS, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN, IN, IN MARKET SHARE. AND WE CAN'T DOMINATE MARKET SHARE NOR CAN WE ALLOW SOMEONE TO HAVE A, UM, A BETTER POSITIONING IN THE MARKET BECAUSE THE MARKET IS THE MARKET THAT'S, THAT'S, UM, IT'S SETTING LIKE THE, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S SETTING COMPETITION ESSENTIALLY. I MEAN THAT'S SETTING AN UNFAIR PRECEDENT. UM, AND WE, I DID SAY, I DID ASK CLEAR CHANNEL WHAT THEIR MARKET SHARE WAS, AND IT'S 95%, NO, 90, WHAT WAS IT? NO, IN SAN ANTONIO, WHICH YOUR, IT'S IN THE EIGHTIES. IN THE EIGHTIES, BUT IT'S, IT'S SIGNIFICANT. SO, AND AND OUT FRONT IS ANOTHER OPERATOR, BUT THERE ARE OTHERS OUT THERE TOO. SO UNDERSTANDING TO YOUR WHOLE POINT, WE TALKED ABOUT WHO OWNS IT. SO I THINK THAT THAT UNDERSTANDING IS, IS A GOOD POINT BECAUSE TO YOUR WHOLE POINT, SOME OF THESE LITTLE GUYS MAY NEVER GET TO THE POINT OF BEING ABLE TO MEET A REQUIREMENT PER SE BASED ON HISTORY ON EACH PROPOSAL OR THE THREE THAT HAVE GONE APPROVED BY COUNCIL THUS FAR TO EVER PARTICIPATE. THANK YOU. YEAH. AND I, AND I THINK IT'S UP TO US TO MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION OF THAT IN PRINCIPLE. IT'S A GOOD THING. I THINK YOUR EQUITY, LET'S SAY IT'S, I NEED TO TAKE DOWN FOUR SIGNS TO GET ONE DIGITAL, BUT I ONLY OWN THREE SIGNS. OKAY? AND I WOULD TELL YOU TODAY, NOBODY IS GOING TO SELL A DIGI ANY KIND OF BILLBOARD TO ANYBODY BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST TOO VALUABLE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET 'EM RE-PUT UP. SO YOU'VE ACTUALLY INCREASED THE VALUE BY SCARCITY. IT'S KIND OF LIKE THE TAXI CAB BUSINESS. AND, AND SO I THINK WE START THE DISCUSSION THERE. I THINK THE INFORMATION THAT BIANCA WANTS IS GOOD AND, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST A VERY BRIEF BRIEFING ON HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT WORKED WELL AND WHAT DIDN'T WORK. AND YOU KNOW, WE ALREADY KNOW ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THE CITY MADE A DEAL THAT CAN'T BE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BUYER OF THE DEAL DOESN'T GET WHAT THEY WERE PROMISED. AND I THINK THAT IS, YOU KNOW, BAD BECAUSE IF YOU CAN'T DELIVER, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GOT, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA MAKE THE DEAL AGAIN. AND OR YOU'RE GONNA MAKE IT CONTINGENT UPON, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY ELSE APPROVING IT, WHICH MEANS THAT IT MAY NEVER HAPPEN. BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH HAVING THE DISCUSSION AND WE'LL DO THAT. AND I THINK EQUITY IS IMPORTANT, AND WE MAY HAVE TO SET SOME SLIDING SCALE RULES THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE LESS THAN THIS, YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA TAKE EVERYTHING DOWN. YOU HAVE TO GET THE ONE IF YOU'RE UNDER IT. BECAUSE I WOULD TELL YOU GOING FORWARD, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK 20 YEARS INTO THE FUTURE AND, AND I THINK THEY'RE ALL GONNA BE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS. AND AT SOME POINT, AT SOME POINT SOME COURT'S GONNA [02:15:01] RULE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GONNA ALLOW THE BILLBOARD UP, YOU KNOW, CONTROLLING WHAT'S ON THE FACE OF IT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A, A REALLY GOOD REASON FROM A SECURITY OR SAFETY, YOU KNOW YOU'RE DONE. SO WE MIGHT AS WELL TRY TO MAKE THAT DEAL WHILE WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THE DEAL. AND, AND THERE MIKE, JUST BRIEFLY, 'CAUSE I HAVE TO LEAVE, I HAVE ANOTHER MEETING I GOTTA GET TO. UM, YOU KNOW, I DISAGREE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THIS EQUITY ARGUMENT, YOU KNOW, MARKET SHARE WASN'T GIFTED TO ANY BUSINESS. THEY EARNED IT. AND THERE'S RULES OR THE RULES AND YOU APPLY THE RULES. IF, IF WE THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO TRADE TOO MANY SIGNS TO TURN DIGITAL AND THAT CUTS PEOPLE OUT, THEN MAYBE IT'S NOT A GOOD RULE. UM, BUT I THINK YOU CREATE A RULE AND YOU ENFORCE IT UNIFORMLY AND YOU GET INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE AND A LOT OF NONSENSE MOVING AROUND, MOVING AROUND THAT. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I'M JUST HAPPY TO LIVE IN AN AREA WHERE BUSINESSES FIND VALUE AND BUYING SIGNAGE AND YOU KNOW, I THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, IN THE WORLD WHERE WE, WE STARTED BEING, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR ABOUT DIGITAL BILLBOARDS. WE HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN THERE BELT WITH DIGITAL BILLBOARDS. NOW WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE, I, YOU KNOW, IN MY OPINION, THEY'RE NOT A HARSH SHOW. UM, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S VALUE IN, IN IN SIGNS. IT CAN BE EASILY CHANGED, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THEY'RE LIT, THEY'RE LIT UP AT NIGHT, WHETHER IT'S A DIGITAL OR NOT, THERE'S A BIG BRIGHT LIGHT SHINING ON THE BILLBOARD. AND WE'VE GOT A LOT OF YEARS NOW WHERE WE'VE GOT, GOT THESE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS OUT IN THE WORLD AND IT'S NOT A HELLSCAPE. UM, SO ANYWAY, THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE MY OPINION. I GOTTA GO AND I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ANY, UH, YEAH, JUST, JUST A COMMENT. MAYBE ON GUYS CAN LIKE HELP THIS WITH THIS. 'CAUSE I WAS DEFINITELY NOT PART OF THIS DISCUSSION WAY BACK IN THE DAY, BUT WHAT IS THE REASON THAT CAN'T JUST CONVERT ALL OF THEM IF THEY'RE WITHIN THE SPACING REQUIREMENTS? LIKE WHY DO THEY HAVE TO TURN 'EM IN TO GIVE LIKE CITY, I GET THE PILOT PROGRAM TO MAKE SURE I GET THE PILOT PROGRAM. YEAH. JUST CHAPTER 28 DOESN'T ALLOW FOR NEW DIGITAL BILLBOARDS OR CONVERSIONS. CAN THAT CHANGE THOUGH? IT COULD, YES, IT CAN CHANGE. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE HERE TO, YEAH. HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AND THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, BUT IF THESE, I, I GET THAT THERE WAS HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL MANY, MANY YEARS AGO WHEN THIS WAS GOING ON, BUT NOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN RESEARCH AND DATA LIKE MIKE JUST TALKING ABOUT, THERE'S NO MORE INCREASE IN ACCIDENTS WITH A DIGITAL BILLBOARD VERSUS, I I MEAN, NOBODY'S PRESENTED A CREDIBLE STUDY THAT SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, NO, NOBODY CAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S PERSONAL PREFERENCE OF WHETHER YOU WANT THE LIGHTED PAPER OR VINYL DEAL VERSUS THE, THE, UH, DIGITAL SIGN FROM AN ECONOMICS, YOU KNOW, PERSPECTIVE. I AM ASSUMING YOU MAKE WAY MORE MONEY ON DIGITAL BILLBOARDS THAN YOU MAKE ON VINYL BILLBOARDS. AND SO THERE, THERE IS WHAT I CALL A OPPORTUNITY FOR A WIN-WIN SITUATION THAT MAY SAY, OKAY, HERE'S THE DEAL AND HERE'S THE RULES. SO, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE YOU WANT A DIGITAL BILLBOARD IN THIS CORRIDOR THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE IT UP. YOU TAKE DOWN X NUMBER, YOU CAN DO IT. IT'S, IT BECOMES A, WHAT I CALL NONPOLITICAL DEAL. IT'S ADMINISTRATIVE. EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THE RULES ARE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME IN AND NEGOTIATE BECAUSE I GUARANTEE YOU, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT FEEL LIKE CLEAR CHANNEL TOOK EVERYBODY TO THE, YOU KNOW, GOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO GET. NOT THAT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT REALITY, BUT THAT'S HOW THEY BELIEVE BECAUSE THEY'RE THE, THE BIG BOY IN TOWN AND THEY WERE HEADQUARTERED HERE, AND SO THEY GOT SPECIAL DEALING WHERE THE LITTLE GUY DIDN'T GET THE SAME DEAL AND, BUT THAT THE OTHER GUY HAS PORCHED HERE SOMEWHERE. NO, NO. BUT I, I JUST, YOU KNOW, I I JUST THINK WHEN, WHEN THE RULES ARE CLEAR AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO INTO A BACK ROOM WITH A BUNCH OF LAWYERS TO NEGOTIATE OUT WHAT THE DEAL IS, AND THE DEAL IS DONE WITH TRANSPARENCY LIKE IT IS HERE AND EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THE RULES ARE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE ARE MUCH BETTER OFF DOING THAT THAN THE BACKROOM DEAL. YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, HIRES A LOBBYIST TO GO TALK TO A CITY COUNCILMAN WHO BRINGS THE FIVE SIGNATURE MEMO UP TO DO IT. AND, AND I JUST THINK, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, IF THEIR DIGITAL BILLBOARDS ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN REGULAR BILLBOARDS, AND I DON'T THINK THEY PUT OUT ONE IOTA MORE LIGHT THAN A LIT SIGN, A LIT BILLBOARD DOES, YOU KNOW, AND NOBODY CAN GIVE A SAFETY REASON OF WHY IT IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OH, THE MESSAGE CHANGES, YOU KNOW, WELL THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD PUT A DIGITAL BILLBOARD UP THAT'S THE SAME MESSAGE EVERY 30 DAYS, WHICH IS WHAT THEIR CONTRACT PERIOD [02:20:01] USUALLY IS ON, ON THE VINYL STUFF. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE TO US, THE CITIZENS, YOU KNOW, DO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, LIKE FOR POLICY CHANGES TO YOUR WHOLE POINT TO HAVE A TRANSPARENT CONVERSATION OF WHERE DID WE START WITH THIS DIGITAL CONVERSATION? WHAT WAS PRESENTED FOR APPROVAL AND VOTED ON? AND THEN WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED? BECAUSE TO THE WHOLE POINT ABOUT YOUR DOUBLE SIDEDNESS, NOBODY'S TALKED ABOUT WHY YOU DIDN'T DOUBLE SIDE ALL YOUR OTHER BILLBOARD, YOU KNOW, WHY YOU DIDN'T GET TO THE FULL AMOUNT. RIGHT? SO I THINK THAT IS A GOOD PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THE HISTORICAL AND ALSO TALK ABOUT, 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T GOOGLE THAT INFORMATION ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE TO GET A, A TRUE ACCOUNTING OF WHERE THE TAKE DOWN OCCURRED. AND SO I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR OUR CONVERSATION. BUT TO YOUR POINT, NO, I, I TOTALLY AGREE. TRANSPARENT. SO WE UNDERSTAND WHERE WE'VE GONE YEAH. TO WHERE WE CAN MAYBE GO NO, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GONNA PRESENT AT THE NEXT MEETING WHEN WE HAVE A DISCUSSION OF THIS, OF WHAT THE, A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF WHAT THE THREE TIMES THEY ALLOWED IT AND WHAT HAPPENED. AND LIKE BE, BECAUSE I MEAN, IF YOU'RE CALL TO COLLEEN'S POINT, IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU, LIKE THE LITTLE GUYS WOULD TAKE SIGNS DOWN TO BE ABLE TO GET ONE, SO THEY LOSE THOSE LOCATIONS. IF, IF THEY'RE MEETING THE SPACING REQUIREMENTS AND THERE'S NO DANGER, WHAT'S THE POINT? I MEAN, AND THEY HAVE THE MONEY TO CONVERT THEM. WHAT'S THE WHY? WHY NOT ALLOW IT? I MEAN, JUST LIKE THE EVENT SIGNS, UH, IF SOME OTHER SIGN CONTRACTOR GETS WITHIN THE SPA, THEIR SPACING REQUIREMENTS WITH OURS. SO IF SOME OTHER SIGN CONTRACTOR BEATS US TO THAT LOCATION, YOU KNOW, I'M S O L I CAN'T GO PUT A SIGN UP. SO IF, YOU KNOW, CLEAR SAIL BEATS EVERYBODY TO THESE LOCATIONS, THEN THEY WIN. AND YEAH. AND THEN FREE MARKET WILL DETERMINE THAT. BUT I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE FAIR, AND I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE A BIGGER DISCUSSION HERE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION IS WHAT THE HELL IS THE DIFFERENCE NOW BETWEEN DIGITAL AND VINYL, OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A STIGMA ATTACHED TO DIGITAL BECAUSE YOU KNOW EVERYBODY RIGHT. YOU KNOW, DID THE ALARM QUICK CHAIR, SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF. UH, JUST WE WANNA PUT THAT IN THE MEETING MINUTES THAT JACK MOORE HAD TO LEAVE. OKAY. SO THAT TAKES US OUTTA QUORUM, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE ACTIONABLE ITEMS. YEAH. WE'RE MORE THAN HAPPY TO CONTINUE TALKING. I THINK WE'RE DONE WITH THIS DISCUSSION AND WE'LL GET IT. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL CARE ABOUT AT ALL? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL IS GOOD FOR Y'ALL? ARE Y'ALL? YES. OR I THINK IT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY SO MANY FACTORS. I, I MEAN, I THINK AFTER DISCUSSION AND AFTER REVIEW, WE CAN GIVE YOU A BETTER ANSWER. IN FULL DISCLOSURE, I WAS DOING THIS EXACT SAME THING IN 2009 WHEN THIS WAS PUT TOGETHER. SO I, I'VE HEARD A LOT OF STUFF. SO WE'RE JUST SITTING BACK, JUST LAUGHING. LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. NOT LAUGHING AT ALL. NO, JUST TELL US WHAT YOU THINK. SO, WE'LL, WE'LL GO FROM THERE. CHAIR, THIS IS EMIN THOMAS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE ARE CLEAR ON WHAT WE NEED TO BRING NEXT MEETING. YOU SAID STAFF STAFF WILL BRING SOMETHING NEXT MEETING. YEAH. WHAT IS THAT? WHAT DO YOU NEED? IT WAS, BIANCA SUGGESTED THAT YOU GIVE US A SHORT BRIEFING ON THE THREE DIGITAL ORDINANCES THAT WENT TO COUNCIL AND WHAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T NEED A MAP OF EVERY, YOU KNOW, SIGN LOCATION THAT GOT WAS TO BE TAKEN DOWN. WE JUST WANT TO KNOW THAT THEY WERE TAKEN DOWN MAYBE IN A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF THE GENERAL AREAS OR WHAT TYPE OF SIGNS THAT CAME DOWN. WELL PAUSE TO THAT BECAUSE I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, THAT COLLEEN MENTIONS IS WHERE THOSE TAKE DOWNS OCCURRED IN RELATION TO WHERE A NEW DIGITAL SIGN WENT UP. SO A MASTER LISTING OF ALL THE ONES THAT CAME DOWN FOR EACH ACTION ITEM? NO, NO. THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING TO, THEY WILL PRESENT THAT IN A DOCUMENT FORM. BUT FOR THE BRIEFING FOR EVERYBODY IS JUST A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF THIS GOT ALLOWED A AND THIS GENERALLY WAS TAKEN DOWN. I KNOW IN ONE OF 'EM THEY TOOK DOWN A WHOLE BUNCH OF THE LITTLE BILLBOARDS ALL OVER TOWN TO GET THE DIGITAL HOW MANY? BUT I, I DON'T NEED A MAP OF EVERYWHERE NECESSARILY. THAT'S A LOT OF WORK. IF, I MEAN, HOW MANY SIGNS CAME DOWN KNOW 500, 500 JUNIOR POSTERS AND 40 OF THEM. DO YOU WANT A, DO YOU WANT A MAP OF EVERYWHERE THE SIGN CAME DOWN, BUT ADDITIONALLY THERE WERE 40 OF THE LARGE BOARDS THAT WENT DOWN AND THERE WERE SPECIFICS AROUND WHERE THEY HAD TO COME DOWN IN THAT ORDINANCE. MEANING WE WERE PUTTING A BOARD UP IN ONE OF THE CORRIDORS WHERE IT NEEDED TO COME DOWN TO BE ABLE TO MATCH THAT. OKAY. SO I THINK JUST GENERALLY WE NEED SOME, YOU KNOW, WELL WE CAN CREATE THAT. SO SIMILAR, WE HAD THE ADDRESSES, WE CREATED THE, THE OTHER ONE BASED OFF OF ADDRESSES. SO, WE'LL, WE'LL DO THAT. OKAY, PERFECT THEN. AND THEN WHERE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO DOUBLE FACE AND WHY THANK YOU. YEAH, WE CAN PROVIDE THAT. YEAH, I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF ANY DIDN'T COME DOWN THAT WERE PLANNED TO COME DOWN. YEAH, WE, WE, [02:25:01] WE THE CITY OWES THEM TWO BIT DIGITAL BILLBOARDS. THERE'S TWO. WELL, THE ONLY THING I WOULD CLARIFY TO THAT IS ON ONE OF THE STRUCTURES THAT WAS NOT CONVERTED BECAUSE OF OUR CHALLENGES WITH TDOT, THE LARGER UNITS THAT WOULD'VE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ONE STRUCTURE WERE NOT TAKING DOWN. YEAH. WE HAVE OTHERS WHERE WE DID TAKE DOWN THE STRUCTURES THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO AND THEN DIDN'T, WEREN'T ALLOWED THE CONVERSION. AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'LL TALK TO. SO, OKAY, PERFECT. I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. THAT'S 'CAUSE NOBODY KNOWS THAT. THANK YOU. MIKE CONSTANTINO, CITY STAFF. JUST TO TOUCH UP ON THAT, WE WOULDN'T ISSUE THE DIGITAL PERMIT UNLESS ALL THE DEMOLITIONS WERE DOWN. THAT'S PART OF THE PROCESS. OKAY, THANK YOU. NEXT TIME YOU CAN SIT AT THE TABLE . AND THEY DIDN'T GIVE MIKE A MICROPHONE SO IT'S NOT LIKE NO, I DO. UM, SO SHE WAS ASKING ME DO I STILL WANT THE MAP? SO TO YOUR POINT, THE DEMOLITIONS THAT JUSTIFIED THE ERECTION OF THE PERMIT BEING ISSUED, MAYBE JUST A SIMPLE LOCATION, JUST A LIST OF ALL OF THEM BY LO YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAP 'EM. JUST A LIST OF ALL THE ONES YEAH, THEY, THAT WERE ASSOCIATED, ASSOCIATED ONE GONNA, THEY'RE MAKE, OH, THEY'RE GONNA MAP IT. THANK, YEAH, WE HAVE THE LIST. WE CAN PROVIDE THE LIST AND YEAH, ULTIMATELY IF THEY WANNA MAP, WE'LL CREATE A MAP. YEAH. PERFECT. ALRIGHT. SO ANYTHING ELSE? SIX CHAIR. AND THEN THE CITY HAS ONE GENERAL ONE BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE WAS ORIGINALLY, UH, TALKING ABOUT BEFORE THE ADOPTION. THEY'RE GONNA JUST CLARIFY AND WE'RE NOT GONNA GO OVER EVERY PLACE THEY'RE GONNA DO IT, BUT THEY'RE, WE'RE GONNA, IT'S ONLY A HANDFUL. I WANNA SAY THERE'S LIKE FIVE OR SIX. IF THERE'S ANYTHING OF SUBSTANCE, WE'LL BRING IT TO THE COMMITTEE. BUT MOSTLY IT'S A CLARIFYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER IT'S, SHOULD IT BE ADJUSTED TO A CERTAIN DATE, WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT'S CLARIFIED. AND THEN AS I SAID, ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES IS JUST GENERALLY WHEN IS A, YOU KNOW, WHEN DO YOU NEED A PERMIT AND WHEN DO YOU NEED TO BE LICENSED TO DO STUFF? BECAUSE I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THERE'S REAL ESTATE SIGNS AND OTHER KIND OF SIGNS THAT ARE GOING UP ALL OVER THE CITY THAT NOBODY IS PERMITTING AND NOBODY HAS A LICENSE TO INSTALL 'EM. AND THAT IT, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY DOESN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE. AND, BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THAT DISCUSSION TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. AND MIKE'S LITTLE STAKEHOLDER GROUP THAT HE'S GONNA BE SETTING UP IS GOING TO JUST HAVE THAT BROAD DISCUSSION. AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND, YOU KNOW, TO THAT DISCUSSION GROUP, UH, JUST DROP OFF YOUR CARD WITH JEREMY AND HE WILL ADD YOU TO THE LIST. ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS? NO, I'M SORRY, MARK. WE STILL HAVE FOUR MORE ON THE AGENDA. EXCUSE ME, WHICH ONES? SO NUMBER 27, THIS IS WHAT WAS BROUGHT FORWARD TO STAFF AND THE COMMITTEE IN REGARDS TO FINDING MEANS OF INCREASING THE HEIGHT OF SITES FROM 60 FOOT TO 85 FOOT AND PROVIDING SOME LANGUAGE OF WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. SO THAT'S WHAT ITEM NUMBER 27 IS? 10 DASH ONE. MR. CHAIR? YES, THIS IS TIM ANDERSON. UH, JEREMY, IT LOOKED LIKE SOME OF THAT LANGUAGE GOT TRUNCATED. DID IT? OKAY. I JUST WANNA CONFIRM THAT. YOU MEAN NUMBER D? YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, EXCEL HAS A MAXIMUM OF HOW TALL YOU CAN MAKE A CELL, SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE THERE. BUT I'M HAPPY TO, UH, LEMME SEE IF I CAN MAKE IT WHERE WE CAN SEE IT. , CORRECT? YEAH, YOU YOU DID PROVIDE THAT. I DIDN'T HAVE IT HERE, BUT YEAH, YOU, THERE WAS AN ADDITION TO THIS. A LIMITATION OF NO MORE THAN I BELIEVE THREE OF THESE PERMITS WOULD BE PERMITTED WITHIN A CALENDAR YEAR FOR ANY OPERATOR. OKAY. D D WHAT'S E IS THAT E I CAN'T, IT WOULD BE AN E OR IF IT COULD JUST BE INCLUDED AS AN, IS THERE A TAKE DOWN REQUIREMENT TO RAISE IT? YES. ONE SIDE FOR EVERY PERMIT APPLIED. OKAY. WE, WE TRIED TO WRITE IT MR. CHAIR, THE WAY WE UNDERSTOOD THE, THE, UH, VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE WERE INTERESTED IN IT. OKAY. AND, AND IS THERE A, IF IT'S IN A CORRIDOR, DOES THIS TAKE DOWN HAVE TO BE IN THE SAME CORRIDOR? WE HAD DISCUSSIONS ON THAT AND THOUGHT THAT MAYBE THAT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THE COMMITTEE TO DECIDE IF THAT WAS APPROPRIATE. SO WE LEFT IT MORE VAGUE OF JUST ANYWHERE AT THIS POINT. SO PATTY, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION AS MY GO-TO SIGN PERSON RIGHT NOW. UM, REALLY? YEAH, SHE'S BACK THERE. SO [02:30:01] IF, BECAUSE IT WAS YOUR IDEA, YOU WERE TALKING ORIGINALLY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT FAIR TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, GET A SIGN ON 2 81 AND THEN TAKE ONE DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE. AND SO MY QUESTION IS, IF WE SET A, LIKE SOME GENERAL GUIDELINES THAT, AND LEFT IT UP TO THE DIRECTOR TO SAY THE SIGN BEING TAKE DOWN MEETS THOSE GUIDELINES, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WHERE THE EQUAL TRAFFIC COUNT WITHIN, YOU KNOW, 80% OF THE TRAFFIC COUNT, WHERE THE SIGN'S GONNA BE RAISED OR WITHIN A MILE OR TWO MILES OR FIVE MILES OF, OF THE LOCATION OF WHERE THE SIGN IS AND WE'LL WORK ON WHAT THE, THOSE SPECIFICS ARE. WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE OKAY? UH, YES. MR. CHAIR? I THINK SO. I THINK THE WHOLE POINT IS, IS THAT, UH, THAT IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT, THEN YOU DO NEED TO TAKE DOWN A SIGN THAT'S IN THE GENERAL VICINITY OF WHERE THE EXISTING SIGN THAT YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE IS GOING TO BE. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, PUT ONE AT 2 81 AND THEN TAKE ONE DOWN, YOU KNOW, OVER HERE ON RA STREET, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO IT IN THE GENERAL VICINITY, YOU KNOW WHERE THAT IS? RIGHT? . UM, SO GOOGLE IT. PATTY'S GONNA TAKE YOU ON A TOUR, I'LL TAKE YOU. HEY, WHEN YOU'RE A PRESERVATIONIST YOU GET INTO THOSE OLD NEIGHBORHOODS. SO, UM, I DO AGREE WITH THAT. SO THAT WOULD BE OKAY AS LONG AS WE DEFINE OUT WHAT THOSE ARE. YES, THERE SHOULD BE GUIDELINES AND IF THE GUIDELINES ARE ESTABLISHED, AGREED UPON AND FOLLOWED, THEN I SHOULD THINK THAT STAFF SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE, UH, DECISIONS. AND IF A COMPANY HAD SMALLER SIGNS AND WANTED TO RAISE ONE SIGN, ARE YOU OKAY IF THEY TOOK DOWN FIVE, YOU KNOW, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF WHATEVER THEY'RE RAISING, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE SIGN THEY'RE TAKING DOWN WOULD HAVE TO BE EQUAL OR THEY WOULD HAVE TO DO MULTIPLE TO GET THE ONE HIGHER? I I WOULD CONCUR WITH THAT AS WELL. OKAY. I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME EQUITY THERE. SO YOU KNOW, IF YOU EQUITY BOTH WAYS. YEAH, YEAH. EQUITY BOTH WAYS. OKAY. I DO BIANCA, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REST OF THE GROUP THINKS, BUT THAT'S MY OPINION. I'M STICKING TO IT. MY SECOND GO-TO SIGN PERSON. MY ONLY OTHER UH, CONCERN WOULD BE THAT THIS ISN'T JUST RIGHT RAISING THE HEIGHT TO, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN NO CHANGE IN THE FREEWAY. I WOULD LIKE TO THERE TO BE A CONSIDERATION LIKE WHERE THERE'S BEEN AN IMPROVEMENT THAT HAS CHANGED THE ELEVATION OF THE FREEWAY IN THAT AREA SO THAT WE DON'T SEE AREAS WHERE THERE'S BEEN NO CHANGE AND THEY JUST TRY TO MAKE IT, RAISE IT HIGHER. BECAUSE I THINK TO YOUR POINT, THE INTENT WAS TO ADDRESS THE FLYOVERS IN CERTAIN AREAS WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE. AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE IN EXISTENCE SO THAT WE DON'T SEE SIGNS STARTING TO BE RAISED ALONG 1604 PER SE, WHERE WE KNOW THERE'S GONNA BE IMPROVEMENT. YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE A FOUR DECKER INTERSTATE AT THE INTER INTERSECTION OF 1604 AND I 10. AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME VERBIAGE POTENTIALLY CONSIDERED THAT WOULD ADDRESS THAT CONCERN. OKAY. SO, AND I MAY BE DENSE SO I APOLOGIZE. SO AT RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, ONE INTERSECTION WOULD BE 2 81 AND FOUR 10 WHERE ALL THE FLYOVER, EVERYBODY HAD SIGNS UP AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THE FLYOVERS OCCURRED AND NOW YOU CAN'T SEE ANY THE, YOU CAN'T SEE THE SIGNS ARE IN KIND OF NO MAN'S LAND WHERE YOU HAVE TO PAY REALLY GOOD ATTENTION LOOKING OVER THE SIDE OF YOUR CAR TO READ WHAT'S ON IT, WHICH IS I'M NOT GONNA DRIVE ANYWHERE WHERE YOU'RE UPSET ON THE YEAH, , THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA. NO, BUT, SO LET'S TAKE THE, THE 10 AND 1604 WHERE IT'S LIKE HORRENDOUS. SO THE SIGNS THAT ARE UP NOW AT SOME POINT ARE GONNA HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AS 2 81 AND FOUR 10 BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA MAKE A FLYOVER. THAT WAS GOOD. NOW IT'S 42 FEET 'CAUSE IT'S FLAT ALL ALL THE WAY ACROSS. THEY, ONCE IT'S UP, THEY CAN'T RAISE THE SIGN. WOULD THEY BE ABLE, WHEN THE FLYOVER HAPPENS TO TRIGGER THIS AND RAISE THEIR SIGN AND TAKE DOWN IF THERE'S LANGUAGE THAT SAYS THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. WELL, NO, I I I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING BEYOND THEIR CONTROL CAUSED THIS PROBLEM TO HAPPEN AND WE'LL WORK THE LANGUAGE OUT. CORRECT. BEFORE IT I JUST, THE WAY, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE [02:35:01] SAYING. YES SIR. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT, NOT WHAT I'M SAYING, NOT JUST RAISE IT BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE IT. CORRECT. OKAY. 'CAUSE WE HAVE, AND AND, AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I MEAN I KNOW THAT Y'ALL HAVE THE LION'S SHARE, BUT YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY OWNER OF BILLBOARDS IN THE CITY. AND SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR IN THE INTENT ON THIS IS TO ADDRESS SITUATIONS WHERE INTERCHANGES HAVE NEGATED, UM, THE VISIBILITY IN THESE SECTIONS LIKE 2 81 AND FOUR 10, LIKE 1604 AND 2 81. I MEAN, AND I, I HAVEN'T BEEN OUT TO THE NEW, WHAT IS THAT? HIGHWAY 94 10? SO I DON'T KNOW THE TOTAL IMPACTS AND WHAT 1 51 AND FOUR 10. UM, BUT THERE IT IS FOR A VERY UNIQUE AREA. I MEAN I THINK THAT'S HOW THAT'S WELL, OR OR I 35 WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT DOUBLE DECKING IT YES. YOU KNOW, OUT FOR A LITTLE BIT. SO YOU HAVE 42 FOOT SIGNS THAT AGAIN ARE GONNA BE IN NO MAN'S LAND AND, AND ONCE THE SIGNS ARE UP THEY CAN'T RAISE 'EM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE ANTI, YOU KNOW, IMPROVEMENT LANGUAGE. BUT I THINK WE'LL GET THE LANGUAGE. SO, WELL WHAT IS, IF I CAN JUST GO BACK. SO IF THE EVENT IS TRIGGERED BY SOMETHING BEYOND THE SIGN HOLDER'S DEAL, THEY, THE ROAD IS RAISED TO BLOCK THEIR SIGN. THERE IS GENERAL CONSENSUS THAT IF THEY TAKE DOWN ONE SOMEWHERE IN THE GENERAL VAIL VICINITY AND THE SAME SIZE, UH, SAME AMOUNT OF SQUARE FEET THAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, TAKING DOWN AND THAT THE MAX HEIGHT STAYS 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE THE THING WITH A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OR THE LESSER OF 42 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE WHEREVER THE ROAD IS OR 85 FEET FROM THE BASE OF THE SIGN UP, THERE'S CONSENSUS THAT, THAT IT WOULD BE OKAY IF THE LANG AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO WORK THE LANGUAGE OUT. BUT I MEAN, CONCEPTUALLY THAT IS OKAY. YES. BUT I WOULD SAY AT THE 2 81, UM, FOUR 10 INTERCHANGE BY THE AIRPORT, I DO HAVE CONCERNS AND, AND MAYBE THEY'RE CRAZY, BUT FOR THE LIGHTING FOR PILOTS AND FOR THE HEIGHTS RESTRICT HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS IF NECESSARY, I DON'T KNOW. BUT, UH, I WOULD BE CONCERNED IT WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE AIRPORT DIVISION YES. TO THE AIRPORT, UH, ADVISORY OR WHOEVER THEY ARE TO BE ABLE TO GET, ADD A STIPULATION FOR THAT PARTICULAR INTERCHANGE TO REQUIRE APPROVAL BY THE AIRPORT. YEAH. I THINK EVERYTHING HAS TO GO THROUGH THE AIRPORT DIVISION WITHIN THOSE AREAS. AND FOR THE FUTURE AT, AT I 10 AND 1604, THE, UH, M L O D, YOU KNOW YEAH. FOR THE MILITARY LIGHTING OVERLAY. SO, FAIR ENOUGH. ONE LAST COMMENT. YES. SO THERE ARE BILLBOARDS AS YOU WERE TRAVELING 2 81 NORTHBOUND APPROACHING THE FOUR 10 INTERSECTION WHERE YOU CAN EXIT OFF TO THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AND YOU'LL SEE THOSE BILLBOARDS THERE, BUT THEY WERE NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY THE CHANGE. SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DELIBERATE IN THE LANGUAGE SO THAT IT'S NOT LIKE ALL THE SIGNS IN THAT AREA THAT DID NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF SIDE OBSTRUCTION IMPACT, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS AN IMPROVEMENT THAT OCCURRED IN THAT AREA. BECAUSE I WOULD NOT BELIEVE, YEAH, I JUST BECAUSE THEY WANT TO PUT A HIGHER SIGN. YEAH, NO, NO, NO. I, THAT'S JUST MY ONLY CONCERN THAT WE'RE, WE ARE, YOU KNOW, YEAH. FOCUSING ON THE ONES OF CONCERN WE'RE THE DETAIL, THE DETAILS ARE IN WHAT THE ACTUAL WORD SAYS, BUT I, IN OTHER WORDS, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY BUILT ONE OF THOSE RAMPS THAT GOES UP AND DOWN TO GET YOU TO THE HIGHWAY AND I HAD A BILLBOARD FACING THIS WAY ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE RAMP, THEN I MIGHT BE ABLE TO RAISE IT. BUT IF IT, THAT SAME SIGN IS IN FRONT OF WHERE THE RAMP IS AND THERE'S NO VISUAL OBSTRUCTION WHATSOEVER, THEY CAN'T JUST RAISE IT. I THINK THAT IS RIGHT. BUT IN, IN CRAFTING THAT LANGUAGE, SO WE'RE NOT GENERAL ABOUT ANY SIGNS WITHIN THIS PARTICULAR YEAH. YEAH. BUT THANK YOU. I THINK THE LANGUAGE MIGHT, SHE MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR IS DUE TO GOVERNMENT ACTION. WELL, YEAH, BUT IT HAD, IT'S DUE TO GOVERNMENT ACTION PLUS IT VISUALLY OBSTRUCTS YOUR SIGN FROM, YOU KNOW, WHERE, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO WORK. YEAH. SO GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, AND BEING, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 60 AND 80% OF THE MARKET, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD FIND? YES. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE'LL, WELL IT'S YOUR INTENT, RIGHT? YEAH. OKAY. SO CHAIR, REAL QUICK, I WANT TO CIRCLE BACK ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIRED TO LOSE TO DO THIS. I KNOW PATTY KIND OF MENTIONED NOT IN, NOT IN ONE FOR ONE IN THE SENSE THAT IF I'M TAKING UP A 800 SQUARE FOOT SIGN, THEN I HAVE TO TAKE DOWN AN 800 SQUARE FOOT SIGN. WHAT IS THE GUIDANCE FROM THE COMMITTEE ON THAT LANGUAGE? I BELIEVE, CAN I INTERJECT REAL QUICK? I, [02:40:01] SINCE WE DON'T HAVE QUORUM, THIS, THE OFFICIAL MEETING IS OVER. SO GETTING INTO TOO MANY DETAILS ON, ON THE MERITS OF SOME OF THESE AMENDMENTS. I WOULD, I WOULD HOLD OFF ON THAT. UM, SOME, SOME DISCUSSION IS OKAY, BUT WHEN WE'RE KIND OF DECIDING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT DECIDING ANYTHING UNTIL THE COMMITTEE TAKES A VOTE. SO I, I I UNDERSTAND. I I'VE SERVED ON A LOT OF BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS AND AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT TAKING OFFICIAL ACTION, SO THERE IS NO VOTE, WE'RE JUST DISCUSSING IN A CONCEPT J J I I UNDERSTAND, BUT JUST SO THAT SOME OF THE DISCUSSION IS GOING TO THE MERITS AND, AND IT, YOU KNOW, BORDERLINE DELIBERATION AND, AND THAT'S, I JUST WANNA THROW THAT CAUTION OUT THERE. OKAY, THANK YOU. IT'S NOTED. POINT TAKEN, BUT MY, I DON'T HAVE A VOTE. SO WHO ELSE AM I GONNA TELL? SORRY. NO, I, I WITHDRAW MY QUESTION. I MEAN, I GET, I GET YOUR NO, BUT I, I THINK THE GENERAL INTENT OF AT LEAST THE STARTING PORT FOR THE DRAFTING IS IF YOU WANT, YOU HAVE AN 800 SQUARE FOOT SIGN, YOU NEED TO TAKE OUT 800 SQUARE FEET SOMEPLACE, WHETHER THAT'S ONE OR MORE. AND IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE SAME VICINITY. SO IT NEEDS TO BE, AT LEAST MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMITTEE IS IT'S AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, ONE FOR ONE. SO IN THEORY WE WOULD NEED LIKE A FILL IN THE BLANK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD REMOVE SO MUCH SQUARE FOOTAGE, WHETHER IT HAD, AND WHETHER IT HAD TO BE WITHIN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DISTANCE. THAT'S THE KIND OF LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE ASKING STAFF TO PREPARE. THAT IS CORRECT FOR THAT. IN OTHER WORDS, JUST WE'RE GONNA START WITH SOME GENERAL LANGUAGE GUIDELINES THAT WE'RE GONNA DO, LIKE WE DID ON THE OTHER AND WORDSMITH IT UNTIL EVERYBODY'S COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT WE CAME UP WITH CHAIR. WE CAN, WE CAN WORK ON THAT. BUT AGAIN, I JUST WANNA BE CAUTIOUS WITH, AGAIN, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BEING EQUAL AND EQUITY WITH EVERY CONTRACTOR. SO IF I HAVE A CONTRACTOR WHO HAS ONLY TWO OR THREE SIGNS, ONE IN THE NORTH, ONE IN THE EAST, ONE IN THE WEST, AND THEY WANNA RAISE THIS ONE, THERE'S NOTHING CLOSE BY. NO. SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY CANNOT DO IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT WITHIN THE VICINITY OF THE ONE THEY WANNA RAISE. I THINK YOU GET THAT POINT. YOU GIVE SOME WIGGLE ROOM FOR THE DIRECTOR TO DO THIS BASED UPON A SET OF GUIDELINES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HE GETS TO SAY OKAY OR NO. YES. I THINK THAT'S, IT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND I THINK STAFF DID SOME GREAT PLOTTING OF ALL THOSE LOCATIONS ON THE MAP, SO WE CAN PULL IT UP AND SEE WHO OWNS THOSE BILLBOARDS AND SEE IF THAT IS A SITUATION WE NEED TO ADDRESS. UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE DATA NOW WE CAN SEE WHO OWNS THEM IN THOSE PARTICULAR IMPACTED AREAS BECAUSE OUR INTENT IS BASED ON WHERE IMPROVEMENTS HAVE OCCURRED AND THEN IN THE FUTURE WHEN THEY'RE COMPLETED IS MY UNDERSTANDING. AND SO THERE'S VERY SPECIFIC AREAS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, SO WE CAN LOOK AT THAT IN A MINUTE. IT'S SPECIFIC AS OF TODAY, BUT AS THEY DO CONTINUE DOING HIGHWAY PROJECTS, IT CHANGES. SO I THINK TO HAVE A GREAT ORDINANCE THAT STANDS THE TEST OF TIME, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WIGGLE ROOM AND THEN IT'D BE, YOU KNOW, AND, AND YOU KNOW, IN REALITY THE DIRECTOR IS NOT GONNA DO ANYTHING THAT'S GONNA GET 5,000 PHONE CALLS, YOU KNOW, SO IT IT ALL WORKS OUT. YEP. YES. AND PERHAPS IN THOSE AREAS WHERE THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE A SIGN, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A FALLBACK WOULD BE THAT THEY HAVE TO TAKE OUT OFF DOWN A, THAT THE SEAMS SIZE SIGN IN ONE OF THE CORRIDORS THAT HAS GRANDFATHERED SIGNS THAT NO LONGER ALLOW OFF-PREMISE SIGNS. YEAH. SO I MEAN, THERE, THERE COULD BE A LOT OF THINGS, BUT WE NEED TO START, THE HARDEST LANGUAGE TO ME IS GONNA BE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TRIGGERS THIS. EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU KNOW, IS JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S EASIER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DRAFT SOME LANGUAGE THAT REALLY TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENTAL ACTION AND REALLY BLOCKING YOUR SITE VIEW AND STUFF LIKE THAT. JEREMY, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? UH, YES SIR. SO ITEM 11 DASH ONE, THIS IS IN REGARDS TO TEMPORARY SIGNS. I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY BRING THIS ONE AS A SIMPLE AGENDA ITEM. IT'S ACTUALLY, WE HAVE AN INFORMATION BULLETIN OUT THERE THAT ALREADY HAS THIS LANGUAGE IN THERE, KIND OF WHAT'S ALLOWED. SO WE WANT TO JUST CODIFY THAT SO WE CAN PRESENT THAT. SO I, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THIS ONE. IT IT'S BASICALLY ALLOWING A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION OR PROPERTY OWNER'S ASSOCIATION OR A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION TO PUT SIGNS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY ANNOUNCING MEETINGS AND OTHER STUFF. IS IT JUST MEETINGS, EVENTS, EVENTS? SO LET, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. WHAT IS THE, WE, WE TALK ABOUT EQUITY AND WHAT YOU CAN PUT UP AND WHAT YOU CAN'T PUT UP AND IT BEING NEUTRAL IS WHY [02:45:01] DO THEY, WHAT WOULD THEY BE DIFFERENT THAN, LET'S SAY AN APARTMENT ASSOCIATION THAT WANT AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY THAT IS LOCATED? AND I'LL GIVE YOU A, A PERFECT EXAMPLE IS ACROSS FROM THE HE EBNER OAKS ENTRANCE THAT'S BURIED BACK BEHIND, BEHIND THE, AN SIERRA DEALERSHIP. YOU KNOW, WOULD THEY BE AS BE ABLE TO PUT EVENT SIGNS UP ON THE RIGHT OF WAY OUT ON HENER ROAD, JUST LIKE A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION IF THERE WAS A BUNCH OF HOUSES SINCE THE CITY OWNS THE RIGHT OF WAY TO BOTH? ISN'T, ISN'T THIS, THIS IS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, RIGHT? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT NO, I BELIEVE THIS IS ON PUBLIC PROPERTY SAYS PRIVATE, ON THE PRIVATE PROPERTY. ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. BUT WOULDN'T THIS CITY, WOULDN'T THIS NOT BE ALLOWED BASED OFF THE SUPREME COURT CASE TO BA TO, TO SPECIFY LIKE INDUSTRIES THAT CAN DO IT IN LIKE CONTENT, CONTENT NEUTRAL, RIGHT? AND, AND NONE OF THESE PLACES ARE PUTTING IT UP ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. OKAY. SO THE ONLY PRIVATE PROPERTY IS A GATED COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY OWN THE STREETS. SO IF YOU GO TO EVERY OTHER SUBDIVISION THAT DOESN'T HAVE GATES THAT HAS A MEDIAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEAL, THE MEDIAN IS REALLY PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY THAT THE GROUP JUST MAINTAINS AND THEY PUT A SIGN PROBABLY ILLEGALLY ON THE, ON PUBLIC LAND. AND WE JUST DO THAT. SO WE MIGHT WANT TO ADDRESS, SO THIS IS ALSO NEIGHBORHOODS WHO PUT SIGNAGE IN PERSONAL PROPERTY WITHIN JUST NEIGHBORHOODS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN H O A TO PUT A NEIGHBORHOOD SIGN ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY INDICATING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A MONTHLY MEETING OR BIMONTHLY MEETING OR THAT YOU'RE HAVING A HOME TOUR OR THAT YOU'RE HAVING OTHER EVENTS THAT OCCUR WITHIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT DON'T HAVE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS AND AN ORGANIZATION LIKE AN H O A THAT IT'S ALL VOLUNTARY. THAT INFORMATION BULLETIN MAY HAVE BEEN BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT CASE. YEAH, YEAH. WE, THIS IS JOSEPH HANNEY WITH CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. AGAIN, WE DEFINITELY HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT ON THE CONTENT NEUTRALITY AND THE EQUAL PROTECTION AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF THAT COMES INTO PLAY THERE. OKAY. SO I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT BEING IN THERE BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, MY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, WHEN THEY HAVE A MEETING GO TO THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY AT THE ENTRANCES TO BOTH ENTRANCES, THEY PUT UP A SIGN, SAYS WE'RE HAVING A PARTY ON MAY, YOU KNOW, MEMORIAL DAY PARTY, PLEASE COME. GREAT. OKAY. IF, IF THAT SAME, BUT IT HAS TO BE CONTENT OR GROUP NEUTRAL. AND SO IF THEY CAN DO IT ON THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, CAN THE APARTMENT COMMUNITY PUT THE SAME KIND OF SIGN TO ANNOUNCE TO THE RESIDENTS ON THE PUBLIC RIGHT. OF SAYING WE'RE HAVING THE SAME KIND OF PARTY, YOU KNOW, AND THEY SHARE THE DRIVEWAY GOING UP LIKE THEY SHARE ON BOTH I 10 AND HENER BEHIND IN THE ROAD THAT RUNS BEHIND IN WHERE YOU HAVE THAT APARTMENT. SO WHAT, YOU KNOW, AND I JUST THINK WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE DIFFERENCE AND IF IT'S CONTENT NEUTRAL AND GROUP NEUTRAL, UH, I DOUBT IF THEY GET A PERMIT EVERY TIME THEY PUT OUT A, A SIGN THAT SAYS LET YOUR, LET YOUR PIPES, YOUR FAUCETS. YEAH. BUT THOSE KIND OF SIGNS THEY PUT UP ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY. WELL, AND I THINK THAT THOSE GROUPS COULD, BECAUSE THEY DO HAVE LIMITED ENTRANCES, CAN PUT IT ON THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY. NO, NO, I UNDERSTAND. BUT WHAT I'M ASKING IS WHAT, EXPLAIN TO ME THE DIFFERENCE IF THOSE WERE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES BACK THERE OR THERE'S AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY ONE'S ALLOWED TO PUT THE MONUMENT SIGN UP, YOU KNOW, AND WE ALLOW A LOT OF, I ASSUME ALL THE MONUMENT SIGNS THROUGH SUBDIVISIONS ARE NOT PLATTED AND THAT'S PART OF THE, THEY'RE PUT INTO THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. CORRECT. IF I'M UNDERSTANDING THE QUESTION IS CAN YOU PUT A MONUMENT SUN ON CITY RIGHT AWAY? THE ANSWER WOULD BE NO. THEY'RE UP ALL OVER AND THE CITY APPROVES 'EM ALL OVER THE TIME BECAUSE THEY GOT ELECTRIC TO 'EM AND WATER TO 'EM AND EVERYTHING. HAS THAT CHANGED CITY STAFF? CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? I'M SORRY. STAFF WAS LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE. I HAVE AN ENTRANCE TO A SUBDIVISION THAT HAS A MEDIAN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TWO ENTRANCE EXIT AND THERE IS A GRASS PLANTED AREA IN THE MIDDLE AND THE RIGHT OF WAY RUNS FROM SIDEWALK TO SIDEWALK. BUT THERE'S STILL SIGNS IN THE PUBLIC [02:50:01] RIGHT OF WAY DE WE ALLOW THAT. AND IF WE ALLOW IT, WE PROBABLY NEED TO ADDRESS IT IN THE SIGN CODE. IT, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING YOU CORRECTLY, IT'S ALLOWED, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE WEEKEND, THE PERMITS, AND THERE'S A TIME PERIOD THAT CAN BE UP FROM FRIDAY TO MONDAY. AND NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PERMANENT MONUMENTS. THE ONE THAT SAID THE PERMANENT MONUMENTS, THEY, THEY HAVE TO PERMANENT. I CALL A MONUMENT SIGN. IT'S THE, LIKE THE, SO FOR EXAMPLE, AT EBNER ROAD IN, AT THE ENTRANCE TO EBNER OAKS, THAT WHOLE DEVELOPMENT, THERE IS A RIGHT OF WAY, THERE IS A CITY MEDIAN BETWEEN THE TWO LANES AND THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL MM-HMM. ART ARTWORK IN THE CITY THAT SAYS HENER OAKS AND IT HAS HENER OAKS THAT IT WAS CONSTRUCTED, IT WAS PERMANENT, I'M ASSUMING THEN WAS SO, BUT HOW DO YOU PERMIT A SIGN ON CITY RIGHT OF WAY. THEY GET APPROVAL FROM RIGHT OF WAY ONCE IT'S APPROVED, SIMILAR TO ONE OF THE I AGENDA ITEMS WE HAVE ABOUT EASEMENTS. IF SOMEBODY COULD PROVE TO US THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED APPROVAL TO GO THERE, THEN WE WILL PERMIT THAT SIGN. SO WHETHER IT BE IN A RIGHT OF WAY, AN EASEMENT. OKAY. SO THAT'S WHAT THE PROCESS WOULD BE. THANK YOU. AND SO DOES THAT NEED TO BE COVERED IN THE SIGN ORDINANCE THAT SAYS THAT'S OKAY? I DON'T, I MEAN, I THINK IT IS IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S NOT ALLOWED WITHOUT, I MEAN WE, IT'S THROUGH THE REVIEW PROCESS AND THE PERMITTING PROCESS OKAY. OF LOOKING AT THAT SOMEBODY, SO LET US KNOW WHERE HIS LINE'S GONNA BE. WE MAKE SURE IT MEETS CHAPTER 28. ANYTIME WE HAVE ISSUES WITH EASEMENTS OR RIGHT OF WAY, WE GET THOSE, UH, CLARIFIED THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS AS WELL. THANK YOU. SO THAT KIND OF GOES UP. OH, GO AHEAD PATTY. THAT GOES BACK TO THE QUESTION SLASH STATEMENT I MADE ABOUT DEVELOPMENTS IN THE CORRIDOR THAT THEY GET PER, THEY GET PERMISSION IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT ITSELF FOR THEIR ENTRYWAY SIGNAGE. THAT'S PART OF THEIR ORIGINAL PLATTING AND PERMITTING AND, AND STREET PLATTING AND ALL THAT. BLESS YOU. THAT, THAT KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE A MASTER SIGN PLAN, WHICH HAS TO GO, AND THAT'S IN CHAPTER 28, A MASTER SIGN PLAN ON THE PROCESS OF GOING AND GETTING ONE OF THOSE APPROVED BY THE CITY. AND THEN WITHIN THERE THEY HAVE RULES OF KIND OF WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO ON THAT PROPERTY FOR A MASTER SIGN PLAN. UH, BUT CORRECT THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, ON A BIG DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD USUALLY COME IN AND PRESENT THAT TO US AND GET THAT APPROVED. THERE ARE SOME INSTANCES OR WHERE, WHERE AT ONE TIME THAT WHEN THEY DEVELOPED THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, IT WAS PRIVATE, THE STREET WAS A PRIVATE STREET. ONCE THE WHOLE DEVELOPMENT HAD BEEN DONE, THEN IT'S ISSUED TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIOS RIGHT AWAY. YEAH. SO I MEAN I I JUST THINK WE NEED TO MAYBE NOT ADDRESS IT, BUT JUST MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. BECAUSE THERE, I WILL TELL YOU, THERE ARE TONS OF SIGNS UP ALL OVER SAN ANTONIO ON, AND I CALL 'EM MONUMENT SIGNS. THERE ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, A LOCATION SIGN THAT SAYS X, Y, Z SUBDIVISION OR WHATEVER, IT'S AT THE ENTRANCE. IT'S 90% OF THE TIME IT'S IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MEDIAN THAT IT HAS BECOME CITY RIGHT AWAY DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THERE. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS EVER PERMITTED, BUT I THINK WE JUST NEED TO ALLOW FOR THOSE THINGS TO HAPPEN AT THE ENTRANCES, THE SUBDIVISIONS AND WHEREVER ELSE. AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WAY TO PERMIT IT AND THERE'S RULES FOR IT. AND BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE, YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS TO TRIGGER SIZE RULES AND YOU KNOW, WHO, IF IT'S UP IN THE CITY RIGHT AWAY, WHO'S, WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING IT. SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT, I WOULD THINK, WITH THE CITY THAT SAYS WE'RE GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR WHATEVER HAPPENS BECAUSE AS THE PROPERTY OWNER, THE CITY AND THAT THING FALLS ON SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, WHO'S, WHO'S GONNA GET SUED. SO I THINK WE JUST NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. JEREMY, NEXT ITEM. YES. BUT IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR, UM, PROPOSED AMENDMENT, YOU'RE TALKING MORE ABOUT TEMPORARY SIGNS, NOT MY STYLE. YEAH, THIS IS JUST TEMPORARY SIGNS. OKAY. AND THIS DOESN'T, THIS IS, IN OTHER WORDS, THIS REALLY IS NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT IS IF I WANT TO PUT A SIGN OUT IN FRONT OF ONE OF MY APARTMENTS THAT SAYS WE HAVE TWO BEDROOMS AVAILABLE, WE HAVE ONE BEDROOMS AVAILABLE AND WE TAKE IT DOWN AND I'M PUTTING IT ON MY PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, OR EVEN THE RIGHT OF WAY OUTSIDE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF MY PROPERTY, I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO GET ONE, COME DOWN AND GO GET ONE OF THOSE STICKERS. YOU KNOW, SO, SO I, BECAUSE IT'S ON YOUR, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY IT'S ON YOUR PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, THE CITY MAKES YOU MOW IT WHEN THE SIDEWALK BREAKS, IT'S ON PUBLIC PROPERTY. THEY MAKE YOU FIX IT, YOU KNOW, [02:55:02] AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE JUST, THAT WAS WHAT THIS IS DEALING WITH. BUT I I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION THAT PUT SIGNS UP AT THE, AT ON THEIR, YOU KNOW, ON THE RIGHT OF WAY INTO THE ENTRANCE, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT THOSE SIGNS UP WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO GO GET STICKERS OR PERMITS OR STUFF LIKE THAT BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE RESPONSIVE TO THE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO I WOULD JUST, YOU KNOW, AS WE FINISH THE LANGUAGE ON THIS, IT'S BIGGER THAN JUST HOAS. IT'S JUST, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A TIME LIMIT FOR REMOVING IT OR HOW LONG, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A SIZE, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNS CAN'T BE MORE THAN THIS, BUT MY SUBDIVISION PUTS OUT A SIGN, YOU KNOW, TWO OR THREE TIMES A YEAR THAT REMINDS EVERYBODY ABOUT OAK WILL, YOU KNOW, AND, AND SO THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT THAT UP AND LEAVE IT UP WHILE THE OAK WORLD SEASON IS IN PLACE, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT HAVING TO DO THAT. BUT IF WE'RE GONNA ENFORCE RULES AGAINST BUSINESSES AND OTHERS, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY NEEDS TO BE ENFORCED EQUALLY. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE GET MET. OKAY. 29 OR 11 12 1, UH, CLEAR CHANNEL. WOULD YOU LIKE TO DISCUSS THIS ONE? THIS IS THE LAST ONE Y'ALL SUBMITTED. YEAH. WE'RE PREPARED TO SPEAK TO THIS AT THE NEXT MEETING IF YOU'D LIKE. WE JUST HAVE SOME LANGUAGE THAT IS KNOWING THAT BEFORE C O IN 2020, WE STRUCTURED THE PROGRAM WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TO CONVERT REVERSE SIDES OF THOSE CURRENT DIGITALS. AND WE REMOVED ALL THE JUNIOR POSTERS, REMOVED THE OTHER 40 PLUS ADDITIONAL LOCATIONS WAS A TIME WINDOW IN THAT, UH, IN THAT AGREEMENT TO EXECUTE THOSE. SO WE ARE ASKING THAT BECAUSE TWO OF THOSE CONVERSIONS CONVERGENCE DID NOT TAKE PLACE FOR US TO SEEK PERMISSION TO PLACE THOSE REMAINING DISPLAYS PROVIDED ALL THE OTHER PIECES OF THAT AGREEMENT ARE FOLLOWED. SO, OKAY. SO CAN I, I HAVE A STAFF QUESTION. CAN Y'ALL JUST DO THAT BY AN AGREEMENT BECAUSE IT WAS NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN? OR DOES IT HAVE TO GO BACK INTO THE ORDINANCE? THESE ARE THE TWO YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE STATE HAD A PROBLEM WITH AND, AND SO YOU'RE BASICALLY PAST THE DEADLINE FOR INSTALLING IT. CORRECT. OKAY. RIGHT. SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT Y'ALL CAN JUST COME TO AGREEMENT THAT BECAUSE IT'S NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN AND WE DON'T HAVE TO CRAFT A WHOLE SECTION OF, I THINK IT NEEDS TO GO BACK TO COUNSEL WHERE THOSE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS WHO TOOK THE ACTION AND THERE WAS NO CAVEAT THAT WAS PUT IN THERE AND THERE'S NO CAVEAT THAT EXISTS. SO IT WAS AN AGREEMENT OF THE, ONE OF THE THREE THAT I WAS ASKING FOR THE BRIEFING ON. UM, I I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD CODIFY AN AGREEMENT. SOMETHING THAT WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF NOT BEING EXECUTED FOR A ONE TIME FIELD AS OPPOSED TO CORRECT SOMETHING IN THE U D C TODAY. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I THINK WE'RE SPEAKING TO IT'S NOT IN THE CODE. IT IT'S NOT IN THE CODE. RIGHT. IT'S NOT IN THE CODE TO CORRECT THAT. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO, I I DON'T THINK IT'S, THIS IS, THIS ISN'T THE RIGHT COMMITTEE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT COMMITTEE TO MAKE THAT DECISION. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HEAR THOUGH, TO THE WHOLE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT HAPPENED WITH AGREEMENT ONE, TWO, AND THREE, HOW WE GOT IN THIS SITUATION THAT WE'RE GONNA DO. BUT THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO AGREEMENT TWO. YEAH. OF THE 1, 2, 3 THAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING. WE DID, THIS COMMITTEE DID NOT MAKE AGREEMENT TWO WITH YOU, NOR IS AGREEMENT TWO ADDRESSED IN THE SIGN CODE. IT IS MR. CHAIRMAN. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A DEAL YOU MADE WITH CITY COUNCIL AND THEY APPROVED DOING IT. IT'S IN ORDINANCE, IT'S IN THE CODE, IT IN ORDINANCE 28 DASH 50 28. YEAH. 28 DASH 54 D MM-HMM. . SO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR IS IF YOU DO SOMETHING, SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT'S BEYOND YOUR CONTROL, THAT, THAT THE AGREEMENT THAT YOU ENTERED INTO, YOU JUST WANT AN, YOU WANT THE DIRECTOR TO BE ABLE TO EXTEND THE AGREEMENT, JUST AN EXTENSION OF TIME TO EXECUTE THE DEAL AS WE, AS WE PUT IT FORWARD. OKAY. CAN I ASK WHY TEXDOT OBJECTED TO THE OTHER FACE. IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF TEXDOT OBJECTING. IT'S, IT'S, AND THIS IS, THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON IN THE REGULATORY WORLD THAT YOU GO ALONG FOR YEARS AND YEARS WITH AN INTERPRETATION. AND EVEN THOUGH YOU MAY EVEN CONTACT THE REGULATOR AND SAY, THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GONNA GO, RIGHT, THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GONNA GO. RIGHT. WHICH I CAN SHOW YOU THE EMAILS. I HAVE THE PROOF AND IT WAS YES, YES, YES. AND THEN IF THE LAST MINUTE, THE PERMIT, THE PERMITS WITH TXDOT, WHICH WE WERE REQUIRED TO GET, YOU KNOW, WITH THE CITY, THEY TURNED 'EM DOWN AND SAYS, WELL, WE'VE LOOKED AT THIS AGAIN. AND WE DON'T THINK THAT [03:00:01] THIS IS THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION, SO WE'RE CHANGING IT. THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT HAPPENED WITHOUT A REASON. THEY JUST, THEY CALLED IT A REASON. NO, BUT A LOT OF TIMES WHAT HAPPENS IS SOMEONE NEW COMES IN THAT GETS INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS. WELL, NO, EXACTLY. SO YOU'RE, SOMEBODY GOT A NEW BOSS. YOU'RE PROPOSING, I'M JUST TRYING TO CLARIFY, UM, THAT YOU TAKE DOWN TWO STATIC FACES AND OR YOU'RE PROPOSING A NEW STRUCTURE. UH, THIS IS TIM ANDERSON. NO, WHAT THE COUNCIL HAD AGREED WITH US TO DO WAS THE 13 ORIGINAL SIGNS FROM NUMBER ONE, WE COULD PUT DIGITALS ON THE BACKSIDE ON 11 OF THEM. THERE ARE DIGITALS PRESENT. TWO, THERE ARE NOT. SO ALL WE'RE WE'RE ASKING YOU TO DO IS PUT THEM ESSENTIALLY WHERE THEY WERE GONNA BE IN THE FIRST PLACE THREE, FOUR YEARS AGO ON THE BACKSIDE OF TWO EXISTING ALREADY. DIGITAL SIDE ONE, TWO, LEMME MAKE A SMALL CORRECTION. IT'S NINE OF THE 12 WERE CONVERTED. ONE OF THE 12 WAS CONSIDERED NOT FEASIBLE CONSTRUCTION WISE TO PUT A BACKEND ON. AND THE TWO OF THE 12 THAT REMAIN PENDING, ISN'T TECH DOT GOING TO PRE PREVENT THAT? NOW THIS PART IS TIED TO THE CERTIFICATION EARLIER. OKAY. SO IF THEY GET, IF THE CITY GETS CERTIFIED, ALL THE PROBLEMS GO AWAY. 'CAUSE THE CITY ISSUES, THE PERMIT AND WE'RE DONE DEAL WE MADE WITH THE CITY CAN BE EXECUTED. RIGHT. AND YOU'LL BE IN THE SAME PLACE BECAUSE YOU WOULD'VE HAD TO TAKE THAT STATIC PHASE DOWN ANYWAY. RIGHT. AND THEY WILL HAVE TO TAKE THE SIGNS DOWN THAT THEY AGREED AND THE OTHERS WERE ALREADY TAKEN DOWN, ALL OF THE OTHERS. SO, OKAY. I HAVE A POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR ORDERING FOR THE AGENDA. IF WE COULD PUT, WE'RE GONNA HEAR THESE AMENDMENTS AND WITH SOME OF THE OTHER ONES THAT WE GROUP 'EM LIKENESS TOGETHER IF POSSIBLE. SO THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE, THAT IS A GREAT SUGGESTION. THANK YOU. OKAY. FIVE, SIX AND 10 . UM, NO. SO THE LAST ONE WE HAVE THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED OKAY. AND BROUGHT TO THE BOARD OF THE COMMITTEE. WHICH ONE? IT IS NUMBER 30, 30 IS AT THE TOP WAY ON TOP PAGE. PAGE. OH, OKAY. SORRY. UH, SO THIS IS 13 DASH ONE. UM, THIS CAME FROM HILL COUNTRY ALLIANCE AND WHO IS HILL COUNTRY ALLIANCE AND, UM, MS. DAVIS MULTIPLE LOCATIONS. SO, UH, THIS IS ALL ABOUT NIGHT SKY INITIATIVE AND THIS WILL BE AT, SO CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN GENERALLY WHAT THEY WANT TO DO? IT'S, THEY WANT TO ADD SOME CODE LANGUAGE THROUGHOUT THE CHAPTER AND THEY, THEY'VE PROVIDED THAT, LEMME SEE IF I CAN PULL THAT UP REAL QUICK. IS IT SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY DID IN CHAPTER 35? UM, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEY DID FOR CHAPTER 35. I THINK IT IS. THERE IS A U D C AMENDMENT THAT CAME THROUGH ON P TAC FROM THEM REGARDING LIGHTING. SO, SO, SO DO YOU REMEMBER GENERALLY WHAT THEY WANTED? GENERALLY? NO, I DON'T BECAUSE WE HASHED IT OUT. THE, THEY WEREN WERE LESS LIGHTS. SO YOU CAN SEE THE STARS, THEY WANTED CONSISTENT LIGHTING. MY UNDERSTANDING THERE, THERE WERE, IT WAS A LITTLE CONVOLUTED BECAUSE IT ENDED UP BEING, UM, UM, UM, MERGING OF TWO AMENDMENTS AND REMOVAL OF LANGUAGE. BUT IT TALKED ABOUT ON-PREMISE LIGHTING IN THAT REGULATORY AREA TO ENSURE THEY ENDED UP CHANGING THEIR U D C AMENDMENT TO MATCH, UH, ANOTHER AMENDMENT THAT HAD BEEN PROPOSED. AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT THE REASON WAS FOR THE OTHER AMENDMENT TO BE PROPOSED, BUT IT WAS CONTROLLING LIGHTS SPILLAGE ESSENTIALLY, AND LIGHT POLLUTION IN THE AREA AND FOCUSING ON THE LUMEN BRIGHTNESS OF LIGHTING IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. OKAY. SO I GUESS WE, YOU WILL GET THEM TO MAKE A PRESENTATION AT THE NEXT, CORRECT? YEAH, I'LL LET THEM KNOW. AND I MEAN, BUT WHAT WE HAVE, AND YOU CAN, THIS WILL BE AVAILABLE, UH, THROUGH THE SPREADSHEET OF PROPOSED CHANGES, BUT THIS IS PRETTY MUCH CHAPTER 28 AND EVERYTHING IN BLUE IS THEIR PROPOSAL FOR A CHANGE. SO IT'S QUITE EXTENSIVE. SO WE WOULD WAIT, UH, WE'LL GET THEM TO COME AND PRESENT. SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. IS THERE IS, IS THERE THIS ISSUE THAT THEY WANT GONNA TAKE LIKE AN HOUR OR TWO TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING THEY WANT? IF [03:05:01] NOT MORE? HUH? IF NOT MORE. SO WHY DON'T WE JUST HOLD OFF ON THIS? AGREED. YEAH. LATER I THINK WE, SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE A FAIRLY FULL AGENDA, IF NOT MORE THAN WHAT WE CAN HANDLE. YEAH. THIS NEXT MEETING. WELL, I, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GET THEM THERE AND THEN WE NOT BE ABLE TO HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. BUT CAN YOU, WHEN WE ARE GOING TO GO OVER THEIR LANGUAGE, CAN YOU MAKE SURE TO SEND OUT THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE, LIKE IN A SEPARATE P D F THAT, I MEAN IT'S, SO WE CAN READ IT BEFORE HAPPY TO DO THAT, BUT I MEAN, IT'S ALL OUT THERE ON THE WEBSITE. YEAH, BUT I, IT'S EASIER, IT'S EASIER FOR YOUR COMMITTEE MEMBERS TO HAVE AN EMAIL THAT THEY CAN JUST GO CLICK AND BE DONE. BUT THANK YOU. YES, SIR. SOUNDS GOOD. OKAY. FIVE, SIX. AND SO THAT'S EVERYTHING. WHAT ARE FIVE, SIX, AND 10? THOSE ARE ALL TAKEN, YOU ALREADY DID THOSE TAKEN CARE OF? YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, THOSE AND EVERYTHING BEYOND THAT IS APPROVED, DENIED, OR OH, WITH NO PENDING REVIEW. OKAY, PERFECT. SO THE ONLY QUESTION I HAVE IS WHEN DOES THIS COMMITTEE WANT TO MEET AGAIN AND HOW LONG OF A MEETING SHOULD I BE TRYING TO STRUCTURE? BECAUSE I WON'T LIE. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF Y'ALL ASK. I WOULD RATHER NOT MEET ON FRIDAY AFTERNOONS, , THE GUYS CITY SECOND, THAT MOTION. SO THERE'S SOME DATES ON THE CALENDAR ALREADY FOR FUTURE MEETINGS FOR THIS GROUP. ARE THOSE DATES THE ONES WE'RE LOOKING AT? UM, I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANYTHING FOR THIS GROUP. THIS WAS THE LAST PLANNED MEETING. SO THERE'S NOTHING ELSE ON THE CALENDAR FOR THE SIGNED CO COMMITTEE? THERE'S STILL, THERE'S STILL SOME, STILL SOME OUT THERE. WENT TO JULY. THAT'S WHY WE YEAH, THEY DO, BECAUSE I PUT 'EM ON MY CALENDAR. THOSE WERE TENTATIVE DATES THAT WERE ON THE WEBSITE. OKAY. SO IF EVERYBODY WILL GET THEIR CALENDAR OUT, PLEASE. JEREMY, I KNOW WE HAVE A, A THURSDAY THE 30TH WE HAVE A A ONE O'CLOCK FOR THE WHOLE BOARD, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT. SO I AM ASSUMING YOU DON'T WANT TO DO, UH, THAT MORNING BEFORE THAT MEETING FOR THIS, I'M, LET ME SEE WHAT THAT CALENDAR IS AVAILABLE FOR THIS BOARDROOM. UM, NO WE CAN'T. THAT'S ACTUALLY ALREADY TAKEN UP BY, UH, B S B. HOW ABOUT FRIDAY THE FIRST IN THE MORNING? UH, WE COULD DO FRIDAY. THE, THE, WELL, I'M SORRY, I I WAS ON THE WRONG DATE, SO I APOLOGIZE. SO JUNE 30TH IS OPEN AND SO IS FRIDAY MORNING THE FIRST, BUT I'M ASSUMING YOU DON'T WANT TO MEET BEFORE THE BIG BOARD MEETS IN CASE YOU HAVE TO GET SOMETHING READY FOR THE BIG BOARD. I MEAN, CORRECT. I MEAN, IT, IT WOULD BE A LOT FOR STAFF, BUT IT, Y'ALL, Y'ALL, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA WORK WITH THE COMMITTEE AND WHATEVER WORKS FOR THEM THIS MORNING OF FRIDAY. THE FIRST WORK? YEAH. YEP, YEP, YEP, YEP, YEP, YEP. OKAY. WHY DON'T WE DO IT? EIGHT 30? EIGHT 30. EIGHT 30? SOUNDS GREAT. THANKS. OKAY, SO WE'LL, DO WE GET BREAKFAST JULY 1ST? EIGHT 30 BOARDROOM? WE'LL GET THAT. OR WOULD YOU RATHER DO TUESDAY THE FIFTH? OH, THAT'S JULY. THAT THAT WOULD BE, YEAH, THAT WOULD BE RIGHT AFTER BREAK. FRIDAY THE FIRST 8 38. OKAY. WE'LL PUT THAT OUT THERE AND WE'LL GET THAT OUT THERE TO EVERYBODY. ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS YOU WANT TO DO THE CLOSING? IS THERE? NO, I MEAN WE'VE ALREADY PUT OUT THE WEBSITE INFORMATION. I THINK THAT'S ENOUGH. OKAY. WE SHOULD BE GOOD. THANK YOU EVERYBODY. SO YOU GET TO DRIVE EARLY, BUT YOU GET TO GO HOME EARLY. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.