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I'M ONLY WRITING A THOUSAND CHECK
IF WE'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER AND DO THE JUST YET.
DOUBLE CHECK WITH THE BIANCA SAID SHE DOESN'T NEED A MICROPHONE TODAY.
GOT THE FUNCTIONING ONE TODAY.
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR COMING, UH, SO EARLY.
JUST AT THE OTHER MEETING, I HAD TO BE SOMEWHERE, SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE WERE GETTING ALL THE POINTS DOWN BEFORE I LEFT.
JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
THANK Y'ALL FOR JOINING US TODAY.
THIS IS THE SEVENTH MEETING OF THE SIGN CODE COMMITTEE AS A COMMITTEE OF THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES, APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD.
LOOKING AT MODIFYING CHAPTER 28 OH OH.
SO WE'LL, UH, START OFF WITH OUR SPANISH INTERPRETERS ANNOUNCEMENT.
ALL RIGHT, NEXT WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL OF THE BOARD MEMBERS.
ADDITIONALLY, WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL OF THE NON APPOINTED MEMBERS.
GREG MANN, COLLEEN AK HERE, PATTY ZIONS HERE.
UH, ONCE AGAIN, WE PUT THIS OUT THERE FOR ANYBODY THAT'S WATCHING THIS EITHER LIVE OR ON THE VIDEO.
THESE ARE THE LINKS, UH, FOR VARIOUS INFORMATION.
YOU CAN GO TO OUR, THESE WEBSITES TO LOOK AT THE UPDATES, UH, FOLLOW ALONG WITH THE PROPOSED CHANGES.
UH, GO TO THE MEETINGS THAT ARE ALL SEVEN MEETINGS THAT WE'VE HAD SO FAR.
UH, WATCH THE RECORDINGS OF THAT OR WATCH 'EM LIVE.
AND THEN ALSO, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO SUBMIT TO THIS COMMITTEE FOR REVIEW OR STAFF SIGN CODE REVIEW@SANANTONIO.GOV IS THE EMAIL ADDRESS.
START OFF WITH JUST OPEN PUBLIC COMMENTS, LARRY.
UH, I'D LIKE TO JUST THROW, THROW SOMETHING OUT THERE FOR CONSIDERATION REGARDING SIGN MASTER PLANS.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, HAVE THE COMMITTEE PERHAPS CONSIDER LANGUAGE THAT SAYS, UM, A PROPERTY OWNER AFFECTED BY A MASTER SIGN PLAN WILL HAVE UP TO SIX MONTHS TO RESPOND OR LOSE THEIR RIGHTS TO CHALLENGE IT.
SO IF YOU WILL, I KNOW YOU'VE TALKED TO THEM, BUT IF YOU COULD GET THE EXACT LANGUAGE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE INSERTED, WE WILL ADD IT TO THE, UH, OUR LIST OF THINGS TO DO.
SO FIRST ITEM WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IS ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH IS THE GATEWAY.
AND I WANT TO REPORT THAT THE SUBCOMMITTEE, UH, CHAIR REAL QUICK, UH, WE, WE'VE MADE THIS MISTAKE MOVING TOO QUICKLY.
CAN WE DO THE MEETING MINUTES BEFORE? OH, YEAH.
SO, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE IS APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE JULY 15TH, 2022 COMMITTEE MEETING.
ANY DISCUSSION OR CORRECTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
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OPPOSED? ABSTENTION MOTIONS CARRIES.UH, JACK WAS THE MOTION AND DE LIDDEL WAS, LIDDEL WAS SECOND.
SO EIGHT IS JUST, WELL, IT'S A BRIEFING, BUT IT COULD TURN INTO A RECOMMENDATION.
SO WE'RE THE SUBCOMMITTEE MET, IT WAS RECOMMENDED THAT THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE, WHICH ALLOWED FOR A 75 SQUARE FOOT L E D SIGN TO BE INSTALLED WITHIN THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR, WHICH WAS THE ONLY CHANGE THAT WAS MADE AFTER IT WENT OUT OF THE WORKING GROUP TO ALL THE COMMITTEES BE WHAT IS RESUBMITTED AS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMITTEE TO CITY COUNCIL TO MODIFY THE, UH, ORDINANCE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE TO BEGIN WITH.
THE SECOND STEP OF THAT PROCESS IS WE WILL CONDUCT THIS COMMITTEE OR GROUP OF THIS COMMITTEE WILL CONDUCT TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS.
ONE DURING THE DAY, UH, PROBABLY HERE AND ONE IN THE EVENING, SOMEWHERE OUT SIDE LOOP 1604 INSIDE, I MEAN OUTSIDE FOUR 10 INSIDE 60 0 4, SOMEWHERE TWO OR THREE MILES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER OF I 10 CHAIR REAL QUICK.
YOU, YOU SAID ITEM NUMBER EIGHT THAT'S REGARDS TO THE STATIC TO DIGITAL CONVERSION.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, WHICH SEVEN? EIGHT.
THE OVERSPEAK FROM THE SPANISH TRANSLATION IS MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO HEAR YOU.
COULD YOU SPEAK UP PLEASE? SORRY.
BUT SHE'S SPEAKING VERY LOUDLY AND IT'S OKAY.
SO LET ME START REAL BRIEFLY BACK TO THE BEGINNING.
THE SUBCOMMITTEE, MATT, THEY DECIDED THAT WE, THE STARTING POINT FOR DISCUSSION IS THE ORIGINAL GATEWAY ORDINANCE.
BEFORE IT WAS MODIFIED AT THE, THEIR PLANNING OR ZONING COMMISSION AND WENT ON TO COUNCIL.
THE DISCUSSION WAS THAT WE WOULD HOLD TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS.
ONE OF THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS WOULD BE HELD HERE DURING THE DAY.
THE SECOND PUBLIC HEARING WOULD BE AN EVENING PUBLIC HEARING, AND EVENING COULD BE FIVE O'CLOCK, SIX O'CLOCK, SEVEN TO BE DETERMINED SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE LOOP FOUR 10 INSIDE LOOP 1604 AND A COUPLE OF MILES EITHER WAY OF I 10 TO ALLOW THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFECTED BY IT TO COME AND, AND PARTICIPATE IN A PUBLIC HEARING AFTER WORKING HOURS.
AT THAT POINT, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS WE WILL RECONVENE THE TASK FORCE TO GO OVER, YOU KNOW, ANY OF THE COMMENTS THAT CAME, UH, THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING, DISCUSS IT, AND THEN MAKE A FINAL RECOMMENDATION TO THIS COMMITTEE.
I WANT EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL THE END GAME IS IF WE, IF THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT THROUGH THE PROCESS, THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE THAT ALL WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING IS THERE'S REALLY NOT A PLACE IN THE SIGN CODE FOR THAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT OUR CHARGE IS.
BUT ALONG WITH THAT AND SOME OTHER THINGS, WE WILL, WE CAN VOTE IF WE WISH TO, TO MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION AS PART OF OUR PRESENTATION TO CITY COUNCIL ON THIS ORDINANCE OR THIS SIGN CODE TO SAY WE RECOMMEND THAT AND MAKE A LIST OF THESE THINGS.
AND ITEMS THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT WOULD, WOULD BE STUFF LIKE THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TAKING OVER THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE STATE AND SOME OTHER ITEMS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING.
SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'VE ACCURATELY REFLECTED WHAT THE COMMITTEE IS RECOMMENDING.
ANYBODY THAT WAS THERE, THAT WAS A BRILLIANT JOB OF SUMMARIZING.
YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHICH PART? THE GATEWAY MEETING.
WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH, WELL, NO, I WAS JUST GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF THINGS THAT WOULD
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NOT BE CONTAINED WITHIN THE SIGN ORDINANCE, BUT WILL BE ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS IF THEY'RE PASSED OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE TO THE CITY.NOT THAT THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ONE ANOTHER.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD WOULD BE, UM, HOW YOU PRESENTED IT IN THE BEGINNING.
OUR WHOLE INTENTION IS TO PRESENT THE AMENDMENT THAT'S BEING PRESENTED, TO EVALUATE THE RE UH, THE DIGITAL BAND THAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE, AND ALSO TO EDUCATE PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME WHAT THE OVERLAY DISTRICT WAS, HOW IT EVOLVED TO WHERE IT IS TODAY.
AND SO THAT INVOLVES, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE IN COMPARISON TO STANDARD SIGNAGE GUIDELINES.
I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO, JUST TO NOTE THAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT HOW IT EVOLVED, WHERE IT IS TODAY, AND THEN THE PROPOSAL ONLY FOR THE DIGITAL.
AND, AND PART OF THAT IS TO EXPLAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYWHERE ELSE IN SAN ANTONIO, HERE'S WHAT YOU CAN PUT UP HERE IS WHAT THE ORIGINAL, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE WORKING GROUP WAS.
AND THEN HERE'S WHAT CAME OUT OF THE AND ORDINANCE AND ASKING FOR COMMENT.
I'M GONNA, THEN WE ALSO NEED TO REFERENCE THE AREAS WHERE THERE ARE DIFFERENCES, BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER CORRIDORS WHO HAVE DIFFERENT RESTRICTIONS.
I WAS GONNA PROVIDE THE PRESENTATION FOR THAT WHEN, WHEN THE TIME COMES.
SO JUST GET WITH STAFF AND, AND I THINK EITHER AMME OR MIKE'S GONNA BE THE PERSON UP IN THE FRONT OF THE ROOM GETTING TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED AND, BUT I THINK ALL THAT HISTORY IS IMPORTANT.
SO IS EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT PROCESS? SO STAFF DIRECTION, IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH? YES, SIR.
YEAH, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WANTED.
WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT KIND OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR BEFORE MOVING FORWARD TO THE
SO THIS IS GOING BACK TO SOME OF OUR PROPOSED AMENDMENTS THAT WERE SUBMITTED ORIGINALLY.
THIS WAS AMENDMENT NUMBER FIVE DASH TWO EXTERNAL, UH, REQUEST TO ALLOW TEMPORARY PLACEMENT OF TEMPORARY SIGNS ON NON-RESIDENTIAL ZONE PROPERTIES AND NON-ORIGINAL RESIDENTIAL USES WITHIN ELECTRICAL EASEMENTS PER SECTION 28 DASH SEVEN FOUR B THREE TEMPORARY PLACEMENT.
SO A BRIEF HISTORY OF, OF THIS ONE, I KNOW IT'S BEEN A FEW, PROBABLY MONTHS SINCE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST.
THIS IS TEMPORARY SIGNS THAT REQUIRE PERMITS THAT WOULD GO, THEY'RE UP TO 32 SQUARE FEET, UH, IN SIZE, OR I'M SORRY, I APOLOGIZE, MORE THAN 32 SQUARE FEET.
32 DOESN'T REQUIRE A PERMIT FOR MOST OF THE TIME.
AND WHEN THEY GO TO INSTALL, THESE TEMPORARY SIGNS ARE ONLY ALLOWED FOR UP TO FIVE YEARS.
ONE OF THE AMENDMENTS WE CHANGED WAS KIND OF GOING THROUGH THAT, WHETHER IT'S ONE YEAR, TWO YEAR, THREE YEAR, UH, SO WE FINALIZE THAT ONE, BUT A TEMPORARY SIGN OF UP TO FIVE YEARS, UP TO 64 SQUARE FEET THAT THEY INSTALL IN EASEMENTS.
NOW, WHEN THEY PRE, UH, REQUEST A PERMIT, THEY'LL SAY, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GONNA INSTALL IT.
WE WANT INFORMATION ON IS THERE AN EASEMENT HERE? AND IF SO, DO YOU HAVE AN AGREEMENT FOR, UH, FROM THE EASEMENT HOLDER? UH, TYPICALLY C P S SOMETIMES SAWS, UH, THAT SAYS, YES, I CAN INSTALL THIS SIGN, WHICH IS, UM, THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED.
YOU KNOW, IT DOES TAKE A LOT OF PROCESS TO HAVE THAT DONE, UH, FOR THESE SIGNS.
AND SO THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO FIND A WAY OF MINIMIZING THAT THE, THE RED TAPE AND THE, THE TIME IT TAKES TO GET THAT APPROVAL FOR US TO ISSUE A PERMIT.
SO WE HAD C P S AND SAS CAME, COME AND PRESENT TO THIS COMMITTEE.
UH, WE HAVEN'T HAD A RESPONSE BACK FROM SASS.
THEY'RE STILL DIGESTING AND, AND LOOKING AT IT INTERNALLY OF WHAT OPTIONS THEY COULD HAVE.
BUT C P SS HAS PROVIDED TO US SOME GUIDELINES THAT THEY SAID, LOOK, IF, IF THE SIGN MEETS THESE GUIDELINES, THEN WE APPROVE D S D STAFF TO APPROVE A PERMIT FOR THAT SIGN WITHIN AN EASEMENT WITHOUT ANY LEGAL DOCUMENT SAYING FROM C P S AND THE, AND THE SIGN OWNER OR THE PROPERTY OWNER ALLOWING THAT SIGN.
AND CAN YOU BRIEFLY GO OVER WHAT SOME OF THOSE CONDITIONS WERE? YEAH, I WAS GONNA SHOW YOU THE DOCUMENT.
YEAH, BUT JUST LEADING UP TO THAT.
UH, SO LOOKING AT IT AS FAR AS CODIFYING IT, UH, WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM.
REALLY, THIS IS MORE OF A PROCEDURAL THING.
UM, AND C P SS ALSO ASKED, AND THIS DOCUMENT THAT I'M GONNA SHOW IS STILL GETTING FINAL TOUCHES AND APPROVAL THROUGH C P S LEGAL.
THIS IS MORE JUST KIND OF ADDRESSING HOW WE'RE HOPING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PROCESS.
IT WON'T BE A CODIFIED DOCUMENT, IT WOULD BE MORE OF A PROCEDURAL THING.
BUT THE UNDERSTANDING THAT AS LONG AS D UH, C P S APPROVES THE SPECIFIC SIGN, AND WE HAVE SOME FORM OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN THEM IN WRITING A FORMAL DOCUMENT THAT WE CAN THEN SAY, LOOK, C P SS ALLOWS
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US TO GO AHEAD AND ARBITRARILY APPROVE THIS, THIS SIGN WITHOUT AN EASEMENT AGREEMENT, THEN WE CAN MOVE FORWARD.NOW THAT DOCUMENT, THEY ASK THAT IT COULD BE CHANGED AT ANY TIME.
ANYTIME THEY WANT TO ADD SOME MORE REQUIREMENTS, IF THEY HAVE CONCERNS WITH WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE'VE STARTED THIS PROGRAM, UM, OR FULLY REMOVE IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S STILL ULTIMATELY AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN D S D AND C P S SAYING, C P S SAYS, IF THIS SIGN MEETS THESE REQUIREMENTS, Y'ALL CAN IMPROVE A PERMIT WITHOUT AN EASEMENT AGREEMENT.
SO I HAVE A, UH, LEGAL QUESTION.
IF THE COMMITTEE VOTES TO PUT THE LANGUAGE IN THE SIGN ORDINANCE LISTING, WHAT CONDITIONS DO NOT REQUIRE A, UH, APPROVAL BY SOME UTILITY TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD KIND OF MAKE IT PERMANENT VERSUS LETTING A UTILITY NILLY WILLY AS PEOPLE, UH, CHANGE SAY, OKAY, TOMORROW WE DID IT FOR THIS AND THEN WE RETHOUGHT ABOUT IT.
OR SOME, UH, LAWYER SAYS, AH, THAT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA, WE'RE GONNA YANK IT.
THAT, CAN YOU JUST COMMENT ESSENTIALLY? YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S, WHICH IS OKAY.
UH, NEITHER IS OKAY, BUT IF, IF IT GETS PUT IN THE ORDINANCE OR THE SIGN ORDINANCE, THAT'S JUST BECOMES THE CITY'S POLICY.
THE, THE ORDINANCE IS, I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE BOTH BASICALLY, UM, POLICY, THE ORDINANCE IS, AND THE CODE.
SO IT'S A, IT'S SOMETHING YOU BASICALLY, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, MORE OF A MANDATE.
I JUST KNOW WHAT'S, UM, I, THERE TO BE HONEST, I I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER WHAT THE, THE ISSUES C P S HAD, UM, WAS JEREMY, WAS THERE SOME, SOME ISSUE THEY HAD WITH, WELL, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, SO IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS.
WE NEED TO SHOW THAT THERE'S, THERE'S AN EASEMENT.
WE'RE NOT GONNA ISSUE A PERMIT WHEN THERE'S AN EASEMENT SAYING, HEY, WE NEED PROOF THAT THE EASEMENT HOLDER HAS APPROVED THAT SIGN TO BE THERE.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO CUT THROUGH THAT RED TAPE A LITTLE BIT BY WORKING WITH C P S AND ALSO HOPEFULLY SAWS THAT THEY CAN COME UP WITH THE SAME COMPROMISE OF SAYING, LOOK, WE WE'RE OKAY WITH YOU GOING AHEAD AND ISSUING THAT PERMIT WITHOUT AN EASEMENT AGREEMENT IF IT MEETS THESE SPECIFIC HEIGHTS, DEPTHS OF SIGNS, SIZE OF SIGNS, DURATION OF SIGNS, WHICH MOSTLY FALL UNDER WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE LAST ONE OF, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN TWO OR TWO FEET OR LESS.
12, 12 FEET IN HEIGHT OR LESS, UH, 64, UH, SQUARE FOOT OR LESS, WHICH IS THAT TEMPORARY SIGN SIZE AND ALSO FIVE YEARS OR LESS, WHICH FALLS UNDER EXACTLY THE SECTION THAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIND.
SO, SO DO YOU REALLY TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT? YEAH, LET ME, DO YOU HAVE A SLIDE? GO TO THE SLIDE PLEASE, MARK.
UH, THIS IS AMIN THOMAS, JUST TO KIND OF ANSWER YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE BIT MORE.
UH, THE CITY, AS YOU KNOW, HAS CODES.
AND WE, WHEN WE ADOPT THOSE CODES, THAT'S WHAT WE ENFORCE.
FOR EXAMPLE, C P SS, THEY HAVE THEIR GUIDELINES AND THEY DO UPDATE THEIR GUIDELINES ON REGULAR BASIS.
SO YOUR QUESTION IS, IF WE PUT THAT AGREEMENT, I GUESS IF YOU WILL, INTO THE SIGN CODE, THAT BECOMES THE CITY CODE.
NOW, IF C P S DECIDES TO CHANGE THEIR GUIDELINES AT ANY GIVEN TIME, AND IT'S, UM, NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR CODE, NORMALLY THE MORE RESTRICTIVE APPLIES.
SO, I MEAN, ADDING THAT TO THE CODE HERE DOESN'T MEAN A HUNDRED PERCENT THAT IT'LL NOT CHANGE IF PEOPLE CHANGE THAT C P S I KNOW, BUT, BUT THE, THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS THAT IF IT'S IN THE CODE, THEY ARE MORE, THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO MAKE THAT CHANGE, YOU KNOW? CORRECT.
SO LET'S JUST, IF JEREMY, WHY DON'T YOU JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE, SO EVERYBODY, WHY DON'T YOU JUST READ 'EM ONE AT A TIME.
UH, SO ITEM NUMBER ONE IS THAT THESE ARE TEMPORARY SIGNS OF NOT TO EXCEED FIVE YEARS, WHICH FALLS IN LINE WITH THE SECTION THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THESE ARE SIGNS THAT ARE MAXIMALLY ONLY ALLOWED UP TO FIVE YEARS.
KNOWN SIGNS MAY BE PLACED DIRECTLY UNDER TRANSMISSION CONDUCTORS.
ANY SIGN PLACED IN A TRANSMISSION AS EASEMENT MUST BE PLACED AT THE EDGE OF THE EASEMENT AND MUST NOT BE LOCATED DIRECTLY UNDER THE ANY POWER LINES.
SO CAN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT A TRANSMISSION CONDUCTOR IS? IT'S YOUR, IT'S JUST A WIRE
HUH? THE CONDUCTOR IS A WIRES OR, OKAY, SO IT WOULD BE, COULD NOT BE PLACED UNDER ANY KIND OF WIRES.
THEN WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING IT UNDER THE EASEMENT? IT'S UNDER POWER LINE.
IF IT'S NOT UNDER A POWER LINE, THEN IT'S, IT'S NOT IN, IN AN EASEMENT UNLESS INSIDE NO, THE EASEMENT, THE EASEMENT BE 20 FEET.
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I UNDERSTAND THAT.BUT THEY SAID THAT YOU DON'T, YOU CAN'T PUT IT UNDERNEATH AN ELECTRICAL CONDUCTOR.
SO THE MAJORITY OF THOSE, AND CHRISTIE YES.
SO THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
ANDREW PEREZ, MOST EASEMENTS HAVE A 14 FOOT GOING TOWARDS THEIR PROPERTY LINE.
USUALLY THEY'RE DIFFERENT EASEMENT NUMBERS.
SO EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT UNDER THE PROPERTY, THE WIRE, YOU CAN STILL BE WITHIN AN EASEMENT WITHIN AT LEAST FOUR FEET.
BUT THIS CHRISTY BARON, BUT WHAT, WHAT LIDDELL IS SAYING, I MEAN, LIKE YOU, LOTS OF TIMES WE WANNA PUT 'EM LIKE RIGHT UP AGAINST THE FENCE LINE, AND SO THEREFORE THAT THE POWER LINES WOULD RUN RIGHT ABOVE THAT.
SO THAT WOULD NOT BE, THAT REALLY DOES BASICALLY NOLL AND VOID WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.
I THINK THAT, UH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO, GET CLOSER.
BUT TO HIS POINT IS STILL AN EASEMENT.
EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT UNDER OR ABOVE, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT ON, NOT JUST UNDER, YOU COULD BE A FOOT AWAY.
YOU'RE STILL BEING IN AN EASEMENT IF THERE'S A 14 FOOT EASEMENT, FOR EXAMPLE.
IF YOU CAN GET CLOSER, JUST NOT UNDER THE POWER LINES.
SO WHO WOULD ENFORCE THAT? WOULD THAT BE ON THE CITY FOR LOOKING AND MAKING SURE IT'S NOT UNDERNEATH THE TRANSMISSION LINES? OR WOULD THAT BE C P S? NO, THAT WOULD BE THE SIGN OPERATOR THAT WOULD SUBMIT A PLAN THAT SAYS, HERE'S WHERE THE, THE LINE IS, WHERE THE TRANSMISSION IS.
AND SO YOU COULD BE TWO INCHES OUTSIDE OF THAT BOUNDARY, BUT NOT DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT, AND I HAVE, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE, THE LAST PART WHERE IT HAS TO GO UP AGAINST THE OUTSIDE EDGE OF THE EASEMENT.
IT JUST, MY RECOMMENDATION IS, IS IT'S JUST NOT UNDER THE POWER LINE.
IF C P S REALLY NEEDS TO GET TO THOSE, THOSE ARE TEMPORARY SIGNS AND THEIR MACHINE THAT THEY BRING OUT THERE TO DO IT CAN JUST KNOCK THE SIGN OVER.
AND WE SHOULD PROBABLY ADD SOMETHING IN, IN THE ORDINANCE THAT SAYS SIGNS PLACED WITH THE EASEMENT, YOU KNOW, OR AS PART OF THE PROCEDURE THAT SAYS, THE OWNER WHO'S MAKING THE PERMIT FOR THE SIGN IN THE EASEMENT UNDERSTANDS THAT THEIR SIGN MAY BE KNOCKED OVER, MOVED, DESTROYED IF THE UTILITY NEEDS TO GET AT.
WHICH I THINK IS WHAT HAPPENS IN PRACTICE.
SO I THINK ANDY WAS KIND OF TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
YOU KNOW, NORMALLY, LET'S SAY THE EASEMENT IS ABOUT 14 FOOT, THE LINES ARE NORMALLY RUN SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT EASEMENT.
THAT'S WHY C P S IS SAYING TO INSTALL IT AT THE END OF THE EASEMENT.
SO TECHNICALLY YOU ARE NOT PHYSICALLY UNDER THEIR LINES, BUT YOU ARE IN THE EASEMENT, BUT NOT DIRECTLY UNDER THE TRANSMISSION LINES.
SO IF IT, IF YOU CAN GET IT WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO ASK IF IT'S UNDERNEATH DIRECTLY UNDER A POWER LINE, IS THAT A PROBLEM? NOT NECESSARILY A PROBLEM, BUT I MEAN, I GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT ON ALL THIS AND SHOWED THE PICTURES OF ALL THIS, LIKE, THERE'S A MILLION SIGNS THAT ARE TEMPORARY SIGNS ALREADY UNDER DOING THIS.
THEY'RE JUST 32 SQUARE FEET AND UNDER, LIKE, THEY'RE ALL TEMPORARY IN NATURE.
AND LIKE C P S SAYS THEY'VE NEVER HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM WITH ANY OF THESE SIGNS AND ALL THE TIME THAT, THAT THE REPRESENTATIVE HAD BEEN HERE.
SO IF THESE ARE NOT AN ISSUE, THEY'VE NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE, THEN WHAT I, I GUESS WHAT IS THE ISSUE? SO, I MEAN, ONCE AGAIN, THOSE ARE NOT PERMITTED BY US.
THE ASK RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE ABLE TO ISSUE A PERMIT WITHOUT AN EASEMENT AGREEMENT.
WE DON'T DICTATE THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE EASEMENT HOLDER AND THE SIGN HOLDER.
THIS IS REALLY JUST A FORMALITY OF SAYING WE CAN GO AHEAD AND ISSUE THAT PERMIT WITH THAT, THAT AGREEMENT ULTIMATELY WHERE THE SIGN GOES.
IF THE C P S SAYS IT'S GOOD AND THEY WANT TO, Y'ALL CAN PUT IT DIRECTLY UNDER THERE.
THAT'S MORE OF A CONVERSATION.
ONCE AGAIN, BACK TO C P S, THIS IS MORE JUST, LOOK, IF Y'ALL CAN MEET THESE FIVE REQUIREMENTS, THEN WE CAN GO AHEAD AND ISSUE A PERMIT WITH THAT EASEMENT AGREEMENT.
IF Y'ALL WANT TO BE DIRECTLY UNDER THE POWER LINES, THEN Y'ALL HAVE TO GO BACK TO C P S AND GET THAT APPROVAL BEFORE WE CAN ISSUE THAT PERMIT.
ALL THE SIGNS THAT ARE 32 OR LESS DON'T REQUIRE US TO GET INVOLVED.
SO C P S DOESN'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S, ONCE AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S THEIR EASEMENT.
IF, IF THEY DON'T WANNA POLICE THAT EASEMENT, IT'S NOT ON US TO POLICE IT.
NOW IF THE CONCERN IS THAT MORE OF THIS IS HAPPENING, THE ONLY RECOURSE WE HAVE IS TO REMOVE THE RE THE RE, UH, EXEMPTION FROM A PERMIT UP TO 32 AND SAY, LOOK, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET A PERMIT FOR ALL THE 'EM SO THAT WE BETTER POLICE THIS.
YEAH, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOOD.
SO DO ME A FAVOR, LET'S CIRCLE NUMBER TWO AND COME BACK TO THAT BECAUSE,
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SO WHAT IS THE GUIDANCE FOR THE COMMITTEE TO, 'CAUSE ULTIMATELY, I THINK REALLY WHAT I NEED TO DO IS JUST HAVE SOMEBODY FROM THIS COMMITTEE THAT'S MORE, MORE VERSED IN WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, REACHING OUT TO C P S AND ULTIMATELY SA 'CAUSE SASS IS LOOKING AT THIS AS WELL.WELL, SO I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS, IS RATHER THAN BRINGING THEM BACK IN HERE AND COME TO NO CONCLUSION AND HAVE TO HAVE FOUR MORE MEETINGS, MAYBE WE CAN SET UP A MEETING BETWEEN THE INTERESTED PARTIES AND BOTH UTILITIES, BECAUSE Y'ALL HAVE A BETTER JOB AT GETTING THAT MEETING SET UP THAN THE REGULAR CITIZEN WILL BE.
AND REALLY, YOU KNOW, HAVING A DISCUSSION.
DOES IT MATTER? I KNOW THEY DON'T WANT IT.
YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY WOULD PREFER NOTHING HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, 50 FEET AWAY FROM THEIR POWER LINES.
BUT YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T ALWAYS GET WHAT THEY WANT.
SO WE HAVE TO WEIGH THE INTEREST OF EVERYBODY.
THERE ARE TONS OF SIGNS UNDER, UNDER ELECTRIC LINES ALL OVER.
BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IS THE SIGN IS PUT UP AND THEN THE CITY COMES AND EXPANDS THE ROADWAY AND THEN THE TRANSMISSION LINES GET MOVED TO THE EDGE OF THE BOUNDARY, WHICH, YOU KNOW, OFTEN PUTS THE SIGN UNDER THE EASEMENTS.
THEY FIGURE OUT A WAY AROUND IT.
AND IT HASN'T, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVEN'T SEEN ANYBODY'S ELECTRICITY NOT BEING ABLE TO BE DELIVERED OR FIXED OR REPAIRED.
YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE A LITTLE SLIGHTLY MORE DIFFICULT, BUT THEY HAVE ALL THESE THINGS UNDER THE EASEMENTS.
SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT A PARK, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PARKED CAR UNDER THE TRANSMISSION LINE AND A AND A SIGN.
THE SIGN'S ACTUALLY EASIER TO GET MOVED BECAUSE YOU JUST KNOCK IT OVER AND DRAG IT, YOU KNOW? SO I THINK, WHY DON'T WE SET UP THAT MEETING WITH THEM? I HAVE A QUESTION.
IS DOCUMENT C PS LANGUAGE OR IS IT, WHAT, WHAT? THIS IS THE DOCUMENT FROM C P SS AND I ALSO WANNA ITERATE STILL IN REVIEW.
THIS IS JUST WHAT THEY'VE GIVEN.
SO THIS, THIS CAME FROM THEM AND THIS IS THEIR LANGUAGE.
DOES ANYBODY WHO PUTS THESE UP, ARE THE POSTS MORE THAN 24 INCHES IN THE GROUND? NO.
UH, BEFORE WE MOVE TO THREE, UH, SO I'M GONNA TRY TO
GO BACK TO, I WAS THREE ON THE LIST.
I THOUGHT YOU MEANT ITEM THREE.
NO SIGNS COST TO BE SUPPORTED BY ATTACHED TO.
YEAH, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PROBLEM.
JERRY, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT ITEM ONE.
JEREMY, WHEN YOU GO BACK TO THEM, IF YOU COULD ASK THEM TO FI FIX THAT SENTENCE.
IT SAYS, TEMPORARY SIGNS MAY NOT BE PLACED WITHIN C P SS ENERGY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME EXCEEDING FIVE YEARS.
FOR CLARIFICATION, EASEMENT, SHOULD IT SAY C P S ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE? NO.
EASEMENT, EASEMENT OR, OR EASEMENT? NO.
WE'RE, WE'RE MISSING A WORD THERE.
ANYBODY YOU'RE 15 FEET FROM ANY POWER LINE AND I THINK FIVE IS 15 POWER.
I THINK THREE ALSO THE WORD DEVELOPERS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HAVING UNDERGROUND INFRASTRUCTURE LOCATED BEFORE INSTALLING SIGNS WITHIN AN EASEMENT.
I GUESS THEY'RE ASSUMING THAT THEY'RE ALL DEVELOPERS THAT ARE GONNA BE INSTALLING THESE SIGNS.
YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL FIX THE LANGUAGE UP TO GET TO WHAT I CALL CODE LANGUAGE.
UH, HOW HIGH IS THE NORMAL C P SS TRANSMISSION? LIKE IN A HE SAID THAT IN THE MEETING.
YEAH, I THINK THEY MENTIONED IT.
SO YEAH, SO WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THE 12 FEET AND THE 15 FEET ADD UP TO WHAT THAT DISTANCE IS, SO THAT WE'RE JUST NOT, YEAH.
SO, SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEETING WITH C P S AND SAS, WILL YOU EMAIL YOUR, UH, CONTACT INFORMATION TO JEREMY? JEREMY? WE WILL GET THAT MEETING.
THE, UH, SIGN CODE REVIEW@SANANTONIO.GOV WOULD BE THE BEST SOURCE.
YEAH, I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA HAVE LIKE A, A TASK FORCE LIKE WE HAD ON EVERYTHING ELSE MEETING.
I MEAN IT WOULD BE HOPEFULLY A, YOU KNOW, WEBEX OR SOMETHING OR IN PERSON.
HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO DO IT, HOWEVER YOU WANNA DO THAT.
I'LL REACH OUT TO THE C P S INSTALLS AFTER THIS.
BUT LET ME, LET ME JUST GET A SENSE OF THE GROUP.
THE SENSE IS, THE SENSE OF THE GROUP IS THAT THIS ITEM SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO MAKE IT EASIER ON EVERYBODY.
THAT'S MY SENSE FROM THE COMMITTEE, BIANCA.
UM, MY ONLY OTHER COMMENT WAS IS IS THERE ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDED ABOUT OBSTRUCTION OF THE RIGHT OF WAY VIEW FOR VEHICULAR ACCESS TO FROM YEAH, WELL THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
WELL, I MEAN THAT, THAT'S ADDRESSED THROUGH SIGN CODE.
[00:30:01]
C P S EASEMENT ITEM.BUT YEAH, THERE IS REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE SIGN CODE THAT DICTATE THAT YOU CAN'T BLOCK RIGHT.
ALL I FIGURED THERE IS, BUT I KNOW THE CITY DOESN'T LIKE TO REFERENCE REDUNDANCY.
YOU ONLY PUT IT IN ONE PLACE AND THEY HAVE TO GO LOOK.
WELL, I MEAN, AND I GUESS THAT'S WHERE I NEED, I MEAN, ONCE AGAIN, THE THOUGHT PROCESS FROM STAFF IS THE PROCESS WE WOULD FOLLOW WITH THIS IS THE, THIS IS AN AGREEMENT WITH C P S, I'M, I STILL DON'T KNOW HOW IF WE CODIFY THIS, THIS REALLY CHANGES ANYTHING.
'CAUSE ALL IT'S SAYING IS WE WOULD BE ISSUING PERMITS THAT ARE TECHNICALLY AGAINST WHAT THE EASEMENT HOLDER WANTS.
IF WE'RE PUTTING INTO CODIFICATION WHAT WE WILL APPROVE PERMITS FOR WITHOUT AN EASEMENT AGREEMENT, THAT IMMEDIATELY TURNS INTO ISSUES WITH THAT EASEMENT HOLDER SAYING, WHY ARE YOU ISSUING THESE PERMITS? BUT THAT'S BETWEEN THE EASEMENT.
THE PERSON WHO HOLDS THE EASEMENT AND THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND DOES, IT'S A CIVIL MATTER, NOT A CITY MATTER.
I WOULD, I WOULD JUST HAVE TO LEGAL, I WILL TELL YOU ALL OVER THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO PARKING LOTS GO, GO INTO THE EASEMENT RIGHT UP TO THE TELEPHONE POLE.
AND CARS AND TRUCKS AND VANS AND OTHER THINGS ARE PARKED ALL OVER THE EASEMENT.
AND THOSE ARE MUCH HARDER TO GET MOVED THAN TICKING DOWN A TEMPORARY SIGN OF WHICH SOME OF THEM ARE ON LEGS AND SOME OF THEM ARE TWO FEET IN THE GROUND.
ALL THEY GOTTA DO IS, YOU KNOW, TAKE ONE OF THEIR, YOU KNOW, BACKHOE OR THEIR TRUCK AND JUST LIFT IT AND MOVE IT.
I THINK THE ONLY THING WE HAVE TO CLARIFY IS IN THE APPLICATION THAT THE PERMIT HOLDER UNDERSTANDS THAT IF THEIR SIGN NEEDS TO BE MOVED TO MAKE REPAIRS OF UTILITIES WITHIN THE EASEMENT, THAT THE UTILITIES WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGE OR PUTTING IT BACK OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS WANNA WEIGH IN? YOU'RE ALL GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS DEPENDING ON WHAT IT ENDS UP BEING.
IS THERE AN INSPECTION DONE AFTERWARDS TO SEE THE LOCATION OF THE SIGN? THIS ART SIGN CHIEF? YES.
PART OF THE INITIAL PROCESS IS WE GO OUT AND DO A SURVEY PRIOR TO ISSUING THE PERMIT.
AND THEN ONCE THE SIGN IS INSTALLED, THE CONTRACTOR WILL SCHEDULE THEIR FINALS AND THEY WILL GO AT THAT POINT TO VERIFY.
SO AT THAT POINT YOU'LL KNOW IT'S NOT UNDER THE WIRES.
IF THAT'S WHAT, IF THEY ENDS UP
IT, IT'S EASILY, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED PERCENT.
SO CHAIR, THIS IS THE WORKING GROUP FOR SCOPE OF WORK.
SO THIS WORKING GROUP MET LAST WEEK.
UH, THIS IS THE ONE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY BROUGHT UP BY COMMITTEE MEMBER MICHAEL RUST.
UH, I THINK IN ONE OF OUR VERY FIRST MEETINGS ABOUT WHAT SCOPE OF WORK REQUIRES REGISTRATION AND PERMITTING WITHIN THE CITY, UH, FOR MAINTAINING AND INSTALLING AND, UH, VARIOUS ITEMS WHEN IT COMES TO SIGNAGE.
UH, THIS IS SPECIFIC TO ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE AND THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE WAS SENT OUT, UH, TO THE COMMITTEE.
UH, BUT MICHAEL RUST SAYS THAT MAYBE WE, UH, EMAILED ME, UNFORTUNATELY WE'LL BE HERE TODAY.
UH, BUT WHAT WAS SENT OUT, HE, HE FELT LIKE MAYBE HE WASN'T FULLY ACCURATE TO WHAT THE WORKING GROUP CAME UP WITH.
I'M HAPPY TO BRING UP WHAT WAS SENT OUT ONCE AGAIN, SO EVERYBODY CAN LOOK AT IT.
AND WHY DON'T LET THE COMMUNITY, DO YOU HAVE THAT AS A SLIDE? I DON'T HAVE IT AS A SLIDE.
SO THE WORKING GROUPS HAVE BEEN REALLY BUSY AND THANK YOU EVERYBODY WHO HAS GIVEN OF THEIR TIME TO ATTEND THOSE WORKING GROUPS.
WHO, WHO WAS AT THAT WORKING GROUP? SO JUST IF SOMEONE COULD
[00:35:01]
BRIEFLY, WHILE JEREMY'S LOOKING FOR IT, GIVE US A SENSE OF, IT WAS VERY SIMPLE ACTUALLY.I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST REMOVING TWO WORDS.
UM, DID IT GET MORE ROBUST THAN THAT, JEREMY? I DIDN'T PREVIEW THE LANGUAGE.
ART WAS THERE ART USING
AND SO WE UNDERSTOOD THAT IN THE COURSE OF MAINTAINING THAT SIGN, THERE ARE CERTAIN PERMITS THAT, YOU KNOW, MAY NEED TO BE PULLED REGARDING THE ELECTRICAL WORK, UM, AND SO FORTH.
BUT FOR THE SIMPLICITY OF THE PAINTING OF IT, UM, WE WERE JUST REMOVING THOSE TWO WORDS IN THE DOCUMENT, I GUESS WHEN JEREMY FINDS IT.
AND WOULD THE PAINTING REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO BE LICENSED? NO.
ONCE WE STRIKE PAINTING AND SERVICING FROM SECTION 28 DASH 23.
SO IN, IN DEFERENCE TO THE, UH, THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE, I THINK WE'RE GONNA DELAY IT.
AND, BUT WILL YOU SEND AN EMAIL TO MIKE ASKING THAT IF HE DOESN'T LIKE THE LANGUAGE YOU CAME UP TO SUBMIT WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS AGREED TO AND BUT IN STRIKING AND ADDING WHERE APPROPRIATE AND SO THAT WE HAVE SOMETHING TO COMPARE AT THE NEXT MEETING.
YEAH, HE DID SAY HE WOULD PROVIDE US WITH OKAY.
HIS RECOMMENDED CHANGES AND YEAH, WE COULD, AND I THINK HIS CHANGES ARE GONNA BE ABOUT THE DEFINITION.
I DON'T THINK HE HAS ANY PROBLEM WITH, WE WERE PRETTY DEAD SET ON THE 28 DASH 23.
SO IN THE DEFINITION OF MAINTENANCE AND, AND WHAT WAS HIS PROBLEM WITH THE DEFINITION? DO YOU KNOW? I DON'T KNOW.
'CAUSE THIS CAME TO US AFTER WE MET.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO CONVENE AGAIN TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HIS CONCERN WAS.
BUT MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THE WORD MAINTENANCE IS USED NOT ONLY IN 28 DASH 23.
SO WE WERE CAUTIOUS NOT TO CHANGE THE DEFINITION SO THAT IT WOULD NOT INCORPORATE.
SO, SO IT WOULD CONTINUE TO INCORPORATE THE INTENT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE U D C SIGN SECTION.
UM, I THINK HE'S GOT, WE CAN TALK FURTHER ON IT, BUT WE WERE VERY EXPLICIT HOW ELECTRICAL WORKS.
WE WERE GONNA REFERENCE THE EXISTING CODE THAT STILL EXISTED SO THAT THOSE PROPER PERMITS WOULD BE PULLED.
UM, BUT HE MAY HAVE CONCERN ABOUT THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY, THE ADDING OF THAT.
SO WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? I I I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THAT TO GET MIKE TO SUBMIT IN WRITING WHAT HE WANTS IT TO BE, BECAUSE I THINK THAT MAKES IT A WHOLE LOT EASIER WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING OR AT LEAST IDENTIFY WHAT THE ISSUES ARE IN WRITING.
SO THAT, AND THEN AFTER WE GET HIM BACK, IF IT'S MINOR, WE WILL JUST BRING IT BACK HERE AND IF IT'S MAJOR IT NEEDS, WE'LL SEND IT BACK FOR ANOTHER MEETING.
WHAT I'LL DO CHAIR, JUST TO MAKE SURE, UH, IF EVERYBODY WORKS WITH THAT, I CAN SUBMIT WHAT HE HAS ALONG WITH THIS TO EVERYBODY WHO WAS THERE FOR THE WORKING GROUP AND THEY CAN LOOK AT IT AND SAY, LOOK, WE'D LIKE TO MEET AGAIN.
MAYBE DISCUSS THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE.
LET'S TAKE IT TO THE COMMITTEE AND, AND, UH, FINALIZE IT.
EVERYBODY GOOD WITH THAT? C 10 IS ACCOMPLISHED IN 28 DASH 23 AND WHAT HE WANTED THE CONCERN IS JUST THE DEFINITION.
SO WE'RE VERY GOOD ABOUT KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.
MAYBE WE SHOULD, MAYBE WE SHOULD MEET AT THE PLAY ONE OF THOSE, UH, RESTAURANTS FOR DRINKS AND JUST BRING A CELL PHONE CAMERA.
WE'LL ALL BE DRINKING ICED TEA, RIGHT? OKAY.
SO THIS WAS A INTERNAL STAFF RECOMMENDED CHANGE, UH, WHEN STAFF WAS LOOKING AT THE CODE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE 20, THE 2017 CHANGE HAD A LOT OF SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.
AND ONE OF THOSE WAS THE CHANGE OF WIND SIGNS WERE REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT.
AND EVERYWHERE ELSE IN THE CODE, EVERYTHING WAS MOVED UP TO 32 SQUARE FEET STAFFED.
THIS IS, UM, SPECIFIC TO THE URBAN CORRIDORS.
SO LET ME, LET ME KIND OF STEP
[00:40:01]
THROUGH THE CODE SECTION THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.SO CAN YOU MAKE IT BIGGER? I I WILL.
LET ME, LET ME, I'M JUST GONNA KIND OF GO OVER REAL QUICK WHAT, WHAT THE SECTIONS ARE AND THEN WHEN I GET TO THAT SECTION, UM, THE SPECIFIC THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
BUT THIS IS KIND OF RULES ABOUT SPECIFIC AREAS UNDER THE CODE SIGN.
SO IT'S NOT A UNIVERSAL CODE SIGN REQUIREMENT.
THIS IS SPECIFIC TO URBAN CORRIDORS, WHICH ARE, CORRIDORS ARE U TO THE CHAPTER 28.
THEY'RE NOT UNDER THE U D C NOW.
THEY RUN WITH A LOT OF THE OTHER CORRIDORS.
UH, FOR THE MOST PART, LIKE A URBAN CORRIDOR IS LONGER THAN LIKE THE GC ONE THAT WE'VE BROUGHT UP IN THE PAST.
THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR ALONG THE HILL COUNTRY, UH, ALONG I 10.
THE URBAN CORRIDOR IS ACTUALLY OVERLAYS RIGHT ON TOP OF THAT.
IT JUST STARTS FURTHER DOWN INSIDE I 10 AND GOES FURTHER OUT.
I 10 THAN THAT URBAN, UH, THAN THAT GATEWAY CORRIDOR.
SO URBAN CORRIDORS ARE SPECIFIC TO CHAPTER 28.
WE HAVE SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT.
AND UNDER THAT IS THE TEMPORARY SIGNS.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT SIGN STANDARDS WITHIN THE URBAN CORRIDOR AND TEMPORARY SIGNS WITHIN THAT URBAN CORRIDOR THAT REQUIRE PERMITS.
SO ONCE AGAIN, THIS DOESN'T CHANGE THE RULES AND REQUIREMENTS FOR A A SIGN.
ALL IT IS IS MAKING IT UNIFORM WITH ALL THE OTHER SECTIONS OF THIS, OF THIS CHAPTER OF WHEN A TEMPORARY SIGN BY SIZE REQUIRES A PERMIT FROM GOING FROM 15 TO 32, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE, WITH THE STA UH, CHAPTER STAFF TO LOOK AT THIS AS MORE OF CLERICAL WHEN WE FIRST LOOKED INTO IT.
NOW WE UNDERSTAND THE COMMITTEE'S HAD SOME CONCERNS WITH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SPECIFIC TO AN URBAN CORRIDOR.
SHOULD WE BE MORE STRINGENT WITH THAT? SO WE WANTED TO BRING THIS BACK AGAIN, YOU KNOW, DID Y'ALL WANT US TO DO MORE RESEARCH? SO A 15 FOOT WOULD BE A THREE FOOT BY FIVE FOOT CORRECT SIGN, OR A FOUR BY FOUR SIGN.
AND 32 IS A FOUR BY EIGHT MOST.
AND AND THE TEMPORARY SIGNS REALLY ARE MOSTLY USED ADVERTISING PROPERTIES FOR LEASE OR FOR SALE, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT, SIR.
DIRECTIONAL SIGNS GOING TO A SUBDIVISION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YES, BUT YOU STILL NEED TO BE LICENSED TO INSTALL THEM.
YEAH, NO, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M, WHAT I'M ASKING IS, I'M TRYING TO GET THE CHARACTER OF WHAT THESE ARE, BIANCA.
SO I GUESS MY QUESTION, 'CAUSE I LIVE ON AN URBAN CORRIDOR, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MANY PERMITS YOU'VE ISSUED? NONE EXACTLY.
WE HAVE A HUGE COMPLIANCE ISSUE WITH SIGNAGE IN OUR CORRIDORS.
SO ANY CHANGE IN RELAXING IT, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF.
WE GET VERY LITTLE COMPLIANCE TODAY.
I UNDERSTAND YOU WANT COMPATIBILITY THROUGHOUT THE SIGN CODE, BUT THERE'S A REASON WE HAVE UNIQUE REQUIREMENTS FOR OUR URBAN CORRIDORS.
AND SO I WOULD NOT BE IN FAVOR OF CHANGING THIS.
BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE MORE OF A ENFORCEMENT ISSUE? I UNDERSTAND YOUR DILEMMA, BIANCA, BUT PART OF IT IS ALSO IS THAT WHEN YOU GET INTO THESE AREAS, THEY'RE VERY DENSE.
YOU HAVE VERY LIMITED RIGHT OF WAY.
I THINK YOU WANT ADDITIONAL REVIEW IN THESE AREAS.
I KNOW YOU WANT STANDARDIZATION SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ERRORS AND IT'S EASIER TO TRAIN THE STAFF, BUT I THINK WE REALLY WORK TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THESE CORRIDORS FOR A REASON.
THEY'RE DESIGNATED AS CORRIDORS AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS EVERYONE ELSE.
AND I THINK LIMITED RIGHT OF WAY WHERE THEY'RE PLACED, YOU HAVE A LOT OF RIGHT OF WAY, UH, RESTRICTIONS.
YOU KNOW, E C P S WANTS A 22 FOOT EASEMENT OFF FREDERICKSBURG ROAD THAT DOESN'T EXIST.
UM, SO THERE'S CONCERN WHEN YOU START INTRODUCING SIGNAGE LARGER, YOU KNOW, IF YOU START AT A SMALLER LEVEL, AT LEAST IT HAS THE CONVERSATION.
BUT TO MY WHOLE POINT, HOW MANY PERMITS HAVE BEEN ISSUED? SO, UM, THE ONLY ISSUE I SEE IS IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS ON A CORRIDOR WITH A FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN.
UH, IT'D PROBABLY BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET YOUR MESSAGE ACROSS TO HIGH SPEED TRAFFIC WITH A 15 SQUARE FOOT SIGN.
YEAH, I I MEAN THE, THE QUESTION AND EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS CORRECT.
THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE FOCUS BE ON THE BIGGER SIGNS, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY A DOUBLE FACE, YOU KNOW, FOUR BY EIGHT SIGNS, WHICH IS WHAT
[00:45:01]
THE, THE MAX IS I BELIEVE, ON, UH, THE TEMPORARY SIGNS? OR DO YOU WANT THEM TO FOCUS ON THE LITTLE FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN THAT'S PUT OUT THERE? IT MAY BE EVEN, YOU KNOW, SURFACE MOUNTED ON LEGS THAT SAYS PROPERTY FOR LEASE, IT STAYS UP UNTIL THE PROPERTY'S RENTED AND THEN IT'S GONE.AND THAT AND IT, AND AT LEAST IN MY DRIVING AROUND, THAT'S WHAT MOST OF THE SMALLER TEMPORARY SIGNS ARE.
THEY'RE REAL ESTATE LI SIGNS FOR LEASE AND THEN THEY COME DOWN.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE CORNER OF I 10 AND HEBNER, WHERE YOU HAVE THAT BIG OFFICE BUILDING, WHEN THEY START TO HAVE A LOT OF VACANCIES, YOU'LL SEE A TEMPORARY FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN JUST BE PUT ON THE GROUND AND YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY GET WHERE THEY WANT TO BE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T LOOK REAL PRETTY, THEY WANT IT DOWN SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THE PRETTY LANDSCAPE IN THE FRONT.
BUT DO YOU WANT THEM FOCUSING ON THE SMALLER SIGNS OR THE BIGGER SIGNS BECAUSE THE SIGNS GOING UP EITHER WAY.
SO, SO NOTHING BY CHANGING IT FROM 15 TO 32 MEANS THE SIGN IS GOING UP OR NOT.
IT JUST MEANS THEY HAVE TO PERMIT IT.
DO WE REALLY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GENERATE ALL THAT EXTRA WORK FOR THE CITY FOR THAT LITTLE OF A SQUARE FOOT? AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT THAT'S JUST A RHETORICAL QUESTION.
UM, I REMEMBER GOING TO ALL THESE URBAN CORRIDOR MEETINGS 30 YEARS AGO.
I WENT TO MANY, MANY IN ALL FIVE OF THE CORRIDORS NEAR WHERE I WAS LIVING.
AND THE CITY WAS TELLING US AT THAT TIME THAT THE REGULATIONS WERE ONLY GONNA GET TIGHTER ON RESTRICTING THE SIZE AND THE HEIGHT OF SIGNS.
NOW I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE BILLBOARDS, BUT IT ALSO APPLIED TO ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE.
AND NOW WE'RE TALKING TEMPORARY.
UH, YOU'RE GONNA BE LEANING ON THE TEMPORARY.
THE NEXT THING WILL BE THE ONPREM AND THEN THE OFFICE I GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, INCLUDING BUSINESSES WERE FAR TIGHTER REGULATIONS, THEY DIDN'T WANT A LOT OF MESSY CONFUSION ON THESE CORRIDORS.
THEY WANTED BEAUTIFUL SCENIC CORRIDORS THAT WOULD ATTRACT BUSINESS AND ATTRACT RESIDENTS AND MAKE THEIR, UH, THE CORRIDORS MORE WELCOMING FOR EVERYONE.
I THINK WE'RE GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION.
THE, SO I WANT TO JUST CLARIFY THAT NOTHING IN THIS PROPOSED CHANGE DOES ANYTHING TO CHANGE THE SIZE OF SIGNS THAT CAN BE PUT UP.
ALL THIS IS, IS DOES THAT SIGN REQUIRE THE TEMPORARY SIGN, WHICH IS TYPICALLY A FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN AND MOST OF THEM SAY FOR LEASE TO HAVE TO GET A PERMIT.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THE SIGNS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE STILL GOING UP REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DO HERE.
DO THEY HAVE TO GET PERMITTED THEN? I MISUNDERSTOOD.
I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE REGULATIONS TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE DEFENSE TO GET LARGE.
NO, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE SIZE.
SO CAN WE JUST GO OVER SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR FOR EVERYBODY? TEMPORARY SIGNS CAN BE HOW MANY SQUARE FEET TOTAL OR SQUA? YEAH, EVERYWHERE.
SO, SO IN ANY OF THESE PLACES THEY CAN PUT UP A 64 SQUARE FOOT, WHICH IS BASICALLY TWO FOUR BY EIGHT SHEETS PUT TOGETHER AS A TEMPORARY SIGN.
ALL THIS TRIGGERS THIS PORTION IS WHEN THEY HAVE TO GO GET A PERMIT.
IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE SIZES IS AT ALL.
SO IF A CORRIDOR HAS A SIZE LIMITATION ON TEMPORARY SIGNS, THIS DOESN'T AFFECT THAT.
ALL IT AFFECTS IS THE PERMITTING.
AND SINCE THOSE SIGNS GO UP AND COME DOWN REGULARLY, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK I UNDERSTAND ARITHMETIC AND IT LOOKS LIKE 15 ISED UP AND 32 IS PUT IN ITS PLACE.
IT IS LARGER, BUT IT ONLY DEALS WITH GETTING A PERMIT OR NOT.
[00:50:01]
THEY BY CODE ARE ALLOWED TO PUT UP 64 SQUARE FEET TEMPORARY SIGNS.SO IT, THIS JUST DEALS WITH DO THEY HAVE TO GET A PERMIT TO PUT IT UP OR CAN THEY JUST PUT IT UP? WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A, UH, I GUESS A SURVEILLANCE ISSUE OR, YOU KNOW, ENFORCEMENT ISSUE THAT THAT'S ALL THIS IS.
AND SO FOR EXAMPLE, IS THERE SOMEONE HERE FROM THE REAL ESTATE INDUSTRY, DO YOU WANNA EXPLAIN HOW YOU PUT THE, USE THESE FOR PUTTING UP LEASE SIGNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT? WHAT, WHAT'S THE QUESTION? WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? MY QUESTION IS, IS TYPICALLY HOW DOES YOUR INDUSTRY USE SIGNS LIKE THIS? NO, QUESTION FOUR.
BAY EIGHTS ARE USED ROUTINELY TO THE EXTENT OF GOING TO 64 SQUARE FEET.
IT'S ALSO USED, I DON'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE OF HAVING TO WONDER WHETHER WE'RE AT 32 OR 64 OR FOUR FOUR BAY EIGHT INDUSTRY OR THE SIGN INDUSTRY IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT.
AND THAT'S USUALLY WHAT WE PUT UP TO ORDER.
THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE ALL OVER TOWN.
AND THE QUESTION IS, DO YOU WANT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE GOING UP TO BE PERMITTED BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE USUALLY VERY TEMPORARY IN NATURE.
AND I WOULD MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THAT KIND OF SIGN AND ONE THAT IS 64 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS WHAT I CALL A MORE PERMANENT, THOSE ARE WHAT I CALL FIVE-YEAR SIGNS.
THEY USUALLY STAY UP FOR THE, THE LENGTH OF THE THING, THE SMALLER SIGNS, USUALLY AS SOON AS THE PROPERTY IS LEASED OR THAT THEY'RE GONE.
BIANCA, I WOULD LIKE, I HAVE A QUESTION.
YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, UH, CERTAIN LOCATIONS, CHAIR THAT ARE NOT RELEVANT TO OUR DISCUSSION.
CAN YOU PULL UP THE LIST OF THE URBAN CORRIDORS AS THEY EXIST? AND THEY ALSO HAVE THEIR OWN DESIGN GUIDELINES.
SO WHILE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE MAXIMUM SIGNAGE, UH, ALLOTMENT MAY BE CITYWIDE, THAT MAY NOT BE THE CASE FOR THESE CORRIDORS.
AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HIGH SPEED LIMIT, IT MAY NOT BE THE CASE FOR THESE URBAN CORRIDORS.
UM, FREDERICKSBURG ROAD, IT'S 30 MILES AN HOUR, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE MAYBE 35 MILES AN HOUR.
BUT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF 'EM IS UNIQUELY DIFFERENT.
AND UNTIL I GET MORE INFORMATION FROM STAFF, THEY HAVEN'T, IN MY CASE, MADE A HARDSHIP OF WHY TO RAISE THE SIZE THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT.
THEY CAN'T EVEN TELL ME HOW MANY PULL PERMITS TODAY.
AND I THINK IF WE PULLED THAT NUMBER, YOU WOULD ALMOST FIND IT NON-EXISTENT.
WHICH RAISES A BIGGER QUESTION BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THESE SIGNS THAT EXIST AND THEY'RE NOT BEING PERMITTED.
AND SO I FALL BACK TO MY ORIGINAL PIECE THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE CORRIDORS, YOU WANT TO INTERACT WITH THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE PUTTING SIGNS IN THESE CORRIDORS, EVEN ON THE SMALLER SCALE, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMPRESSED AREAS, THEY HAVE LIMITED RIGHT OF WAY LIMITED VISIBILITY.
YOU WANNA ENSURE THAT YOU ARE NOT PROVIDING VISUAL CLUTTER.
YOU HAVE PEDESTRIAN ACCESSIBILITY ISSUES IN A LOT OF THESE CORRIDORS.
AND SO IT JUST GOES TO THE WHOLE ESSENCE OF AN URBAN CORRIDOR, UH, WAS REALLY FOCUSING ON THE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE THERE.
AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT THEY PUT IT IN TO HAVE IT PERMITTED AT A LOWER LEVEL.
I MEAN, STAFF IS JUST SAYING IT WAS OVER AND IT WAS AN OVERSIGHT AND IT WASN'T RAISED TO THE OTHER LOCATIONS.
AND I, I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT AT THIS POINT I DISAGREE.
I DISAGREE THAT IT WAS INTENTIONALLY DONE TO HAVE MORE OVERSIGHT IN THESE AREAS.
AND I, I CAN UNDERSTAND IF SOMEBODY SAID, WELL, THERE'S A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PAYING THIS FEE AND THEY FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULDN'T, BUT WE ARE, THAT'S NOT THE DISCUSSION POINT.
THE DISCUSSION POINT THAT'S BEING BROUGHT FORWARD IS STAFF JUST WANTS TO UNIFORMLY HAVE THE SAME CONDITION REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT IS IN THE CITY.
AND TO ME THAT IS DISRESPECTFUL OF THE ENTIRE INTENT OF AN URBAN CORRIDOR AND WHY WE HAVE DIFFERENT OVERLAY DESIGN STANDARDS FOR THOSE LOCATIONS.
SO HOWEVER, UM, IF SOMEONE WANTS A FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN, THEY'RE GOING TO PERMIT IT.
SO WHY NOT EASE THE WORKLOAD ON THE CITY INSPECTORS, UH, FOR PERMITTING SIGNS OVER 15 SQUARE FEET? BECAUSE IF A DEVELOPER OR A LANDOWNER WANTS TO PUT A FOUR BAY SIGN UP, ALL HE HAS TO DO IS APPLY FOR A PERMIT AND AND IT'S GONNA BE GRANTED.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THEY CAN SAY NO.
AND, AND ON TOP OF THAT, CORRECT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE, WE'VE DISCUSSED AND OUR OTHER GROUPS HOW OVERLOADED THE SITE INSPECTORS ALREADY ARE.
I MEAN, IT TAKES LIKE WEEKS TO GET PERMITS SOMETIMES FOR A TEMPORARY SIGN.
SO JUST PUTTING MORE WORKLOAD ON AN ALREADY OVERBURDENED DEPARTMENT AND ARE, YOU'RE NOT GETTING ANY MORE INSPECTORS ON ON THAT.
AND I'LL TELL YOU THIS, THE REASON IF THEY ARE UP, IT'S BECAUSE THE CI IT IS GENERALLY ACCEPTED THAT A FOUR BY EIGHT IS STANDARD AND NOT, DOES NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT.
[00:55:01]
SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHY YOU'RE NOT SEEING PERMITS BE PULLED IF THEY'RE NOT THERE BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE 32 AND UNDER IS STANDARD TO NOT PULL A PERMIT.AND IT'S NOT NORMAL IN A SENSE TO HAVE TO GO PULL A PERMIT.
MAYBE WE CAN JUST RAISE THE 32 SQUARE FOOT LIMIT ON THE HIGHWAY FRONTAGES THAT ARE IN THE URBAN CORRIDORS.
YOU TALK LOUDER, ANDY, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU.
MY SUGGESTION IS THAT WE JUST RAISE THAT NUMBER UP TO 32 AND THE HIGHWAY FRONTAGES, BUT LEAVE LIKE FREDERICKSBURG ROAD AND OTHER ONES THE SAME.
BUT IN PRACTICALITY, WHEN AN INSPECTOR IS DRIVING AROUND AND THEY DON'T HAVE A BOOK THAT IDENTIFIES WHAT THE CORRIDOR IS, MY GUESS IS, IS THEIR VIEW IN GENERALITY BELOW FOUR BY EIGHT DON'T NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT IT ABOVE FOUR BY EIGHT.
I NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT IT.
YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE THE SIZE OF THE SIGN.
AND I KEEP HEARING AS I GO THROUGH MORE AND MORE OF THESE MEETINGS, EVERYBODY WANTS THE SIGN INSPECTORS TO BE, YOU KNOW, PULLING DOWN ALL THESE SIGNS THAT ARE ON, UM, GUARDRAILS AND YOU KNOW, RIGHT OF WAYS WHERE THEY DON'T BELONG AND TELEPHONE POLES AND THEY DO THAT.
AND SO I I JUST, I JUST THINK UNIFORM ACROSS THE BOARD IS EASIER TO ENFORCE.
THAT'S JUST SCIENCE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.
I THINK THAT'S TRUE IN ANYTHING.
BUT THERE WERE IS A REASON THESE CORRIDORS WERE CREATED, CREATED.
ALSO, WE'RE VERY FOCUSED RIGHT NOW ON THE REAL ESTATE.
WHAT ARE THE PURPOSES? DO THESE SIGNS, WHAT ARE OTHER USES ARE THERE FOR THESE SIGNS WE'RE SAYING THAT POLITICAL REAL ESTATE, THEY WOULD COME DOWN 'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANT 'EM.
I CAN GIVE YOU A VERY SPECIFIC EXAMPLE ALONG NORTHWEST MILITARY WHERE THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED.
THE SIGN IS SO FADED YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT ANYMORE.
AND IT'S IN, IN FRONT OF A HIGH-END SUBDIVISION.
AND AND WHERE, WHERE WOULD THAT BE? IS IT IN SAN ANTONIO OR IS IT IN CASTLE HILLS OR IS IT IN IT'S IN SAN ANTONIO.
THE COMMUNITY INPUT, THE PRESERVATION COMMUNITY INPUT.
THERE WAS A LOT OF INPUT INTO PROTECTING, DEVELOPING THESE URBAN CORRIDORS FOR THIS VERY REASON.
I CONCUR A HUNDRED PERCENT WITH WHAT BIANCA HAS SAID.
I AM SYMPATHETIC TO THE SIGN INDUSTRY, BUT THERE'S A REASON FOR THIS AND I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS AND KNOW THAT REAL ESTATE SIGNS, PEOPLE ARE OUT LOOKING FOR REAL ESTATE.
THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT 'EM WHETHER THEY'RE A FOOT OR WHETHER THEY'RE 65 FEET IF IT'S FOR LEASE.
AND ALSO THIS IS REVENUE THAT COMES INTO THE CITY.
YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT REVENUE ALL THE TIME.
REVENUE COULD PERHAPS, LIKE I WILL CHAMPION MORE INSPECTORS FOR THE DEPARTMENT.
SO I CONCUR WITH BIANCA AND I CONCUR WITH COLLEEN AND MY COLLEAGUES AND I WILL NOT SUPPORT CHANGING IT.
IS THERE ANYBODY THAT FROM AMIN? THIS IS AMIN THOMAS.
SO, UM, EVERYBODY SAID REALLY AND BROUGHT UP REALLY GOOD POINTS ON ALL KIND OF SIDES.
UH, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY INTENTION TO REDUCE BASICALLY THE RESTRICTIONS.
UH, ALL WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE IT UNIFORM.
IF SOMEBODY CALLS IN THE CALL CENTER AND SAYS, HEY, I'M INSTALLING A SIGN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, 32, UH, DO I NEED A PERMIT? THE ANSWER GONNA BE NO.
A LOT OF TIMES THEY DON'T ASK ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
SO WE ARE TRYING JUST TO MAKE IT UNIFORM.
THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS.
I UNDERSTAND THE RESOURCES, I UNDERSTAND ADDITIONAL PERMIT FEES, WHICH INCREASES REVENUE.
THAT'S REALLY NOT OUR INTENTION EITHER WAY.
WE WERE NOT THINKING ABOUT EITHER ONE OF THOSE.
WE WERE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE UNIFORM.
BUT OBVIOUSLY, I MEAN, IF THERE IS NO APPETITE FOR IT, AND I SEE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE RESOLVE THIS ISSUE RIGHT NOW.
WE GONNA WITHDRAW THIS PROPOSAL? NO, I, AND, AND BE DONE WITH IT.
NO, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.
SO, BECAUSE AS, AS THE PEOPLE WHO PROPOSE THIS, WE CAN WITHDRAW THIS, UH, PROPOSAL.
SO YOU WANNA, WITH, SO HOW ARE, HOW ARE YOU AS A CITY, WHEN I CALL UP AND SAY I'M PUTTING IT UP, UH, I WANT TO PUT UP A FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN.
DO I NEED TO BE LICENSED OR DO I NEED TO HAVE A PERMIT? WHAT, WHAT IS THE THE RESPONSE GONNA BE? BECAUSE I THINK THE WORST OF ALL WORLDS IS YOU TELL THEM ON THE PHONE THAT NO, YOU DON'T NEED A
[01:00:01]
PERMIT.AND THEN THEY GET CITED BY CO COMPLIANCE A DAY LATER AFTER THE SIGN GOES UP, WHICH IS THE WORST OF ALL WORLDS.
SO I MEAN, NUMBER ONE, OUR CALL CENTER, WE HAVE A SCRIPT FOR EVERYTHING.
SO IF SOMEBODY CALLS FOR SIGNS, THEY GO TO THAT AND THEY SHOULD ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.
ALL THOSE QUESTIONS ARE LISTED.
NOW, AGAIN, IF THE PERSON JUST DOESN'T FOLLOW THE SCRIPT, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE MISSING SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS.
THEREFORE THE ANSWER MIGHT BE WRONG.
BUT LET'S ASSUME IT WAS, THEY CALLED, LET'S ASSUME NUMBER ONE THEY CALLED, WE TOLD THEM, NO, YOU DON'T NEED PERMIT NUMBER THREE.
CODE ENFORCEMENT GETS OUT THERE WHEN WE SEE THE SIGN CODE ENFORCEMENT WILL ISSUE A NOTICE.
THEY SAY GO PULL PERMIT RIGHT NOW OR REMOVE THE SIGN.
SO AGAIN, THEY CAN STILL PULL PERMIT IF THEY CHOOSE TO.
IF IT'S OVER 15, UH, SQUARE FEET BASICALLY PERMIT.
SO, UM, NOW YOU'RE REALLY NOT BEING SYMPATHETIC TO OUR INDUSTRY.
WE DON'T NEED THE SYMPATHY BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA PUT THE SIGN UP ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
BUT, UM, SO ART, UM, OR I MEAN, IF THEY GET A PERMIT FOR A FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN IN THE CORRIDOR, UM, DO YOU HAVE TO GO INSPECT IT? YES SIR.
THERE'S ANOTHER REASON WHY WE SHOULD, WE SHOULD JUST KEEP IT AT 32 SQUARE FEET.
BUT SEE ALSO TOO, THE KEY WORD IS TEMPORARY.
SO COLLEEN, LIKE TO YOUR POINT ON THAT INVER SIGN OR WHATEVER THE, HOW LONG HAS THAT SIGN BEEN UP? IF IT'S FADED? IT'S BEEN UP THERE FOR A LONG TIME.
THAT, THAT SONG'S BEEN THERE FOR PROBABLY 20 YEARS AND NOBODY'S, NOBODY EVEN SEES IT.
AND THE ONLY REASON I KNOW, 'CAUSE I DRIVE BY IT ALL THE TIME WHEN I LOOK AT EVERYTHING 'CAUSE I'M A WEIRDO.
BUT MOST PEOPLE THAT DRIVE, MOST PEOPLE DRIVE DOWN THAT ROAD.
I GUARANTEE YOU TAKE A POLL AT THAT, STOP AT THAT LINE WHERE THEY'RE, UH, THE GUYS ARE OUT THERE ASKING FOR A DOLLAR.
I GUARANTEE YOU, I WOULD BET YOU THAT MY TRUCK, THAT 99% OF THOSE PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT SIGNAGE THERE.
SO LET ME, LET ME ADD, BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS A BIGGER ISSUE.
SO I MEAN, WOULD THERE BE A WAY FOR THE SMALLER SIGNS RATHER THAN GETTING A PERMIT THAT TIES UP EVERYBODY TO DO A SIGN THAT REALLY DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY INSPECTIONS OF A, OF THE TEMPORARY SIGNS HAVE Y'ALL MADE THAT YOU HAVE DENIED BECAUSE THEY WERE AN INSTALLED RATE DENIAL NORMALLY COMES, UH, AT THE INITIAL PROCESS ON RE NO, I KNOW, BUT SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU GO OUT AT THE END OF THE DAY AND INSPECT IT, HOW MANY OF THOSE FAIL? THEY WOULD FAIL FOR OTHER REASONS OTHER THAN PLACEMENT.
HOW MANY PERMITS HAVE YOU GOTTEN BETWEEN 15 AND 32 SQUARE FEET WITHIN THIS URBAN CORRIDOR? PROBABLY ZERO.
BECAUSE EVERYBODY THINKS THAT LIKE UP TO 32 IS LEGAL, SO THEY'RE GONNA DO IT ANYWAY.
AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN GONNA KNOW IT.
YOU'RE PROBABLY, THERE'S PROBABLY SIXTY FOUR, A HUNDRED TWENTY EIGHT, A HUNDRED NINETY SIX, THERE'RE MASSIVE SIGNS OUT THERE THAT YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT DON'T HAVE PERMITS.
AND SO 15 TO 32 IS SUCH A MINUSCULE THING THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO ANYWAY.
IT'S JUST A PAPERWORK PROCESS THAT IS A PAIN IN THE ASS.
SO IT'S BASICALLY 30, THE CURRENT ONE IS WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE NORMAL SIZE OF THAT KIND OF SIGN? 32.
BUT AT, AT THE CURRENT, AT THE CURRENT, UH, SIZE A FIVE BY FOUR.
HOW MANY SQUARE FEET IS IT? 15.
WHICH IS NOT EVEN, WHICH IS LIKE A THREE BY FIVE SIZE ANYWAY.
WHICH MEANS THAT, WHICH MEANS THAT THAT THREE BY FIVE SIGN IS PROBABLY GONNA COST YOU DOUBLE WHAT THE FOUR BY EIGHT SIGN IS BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAD TO CUT, MAKE THE CUT.
SO MARK, YOU ASKED A QUESTION A WHILE AGO THAT YOU GET ANY ANSWERS FOR.
YOU SAID, WHAT WOULD THE VOTING MEMBERS.
AND I'M, AND I'M TELLING YOU THAT I AGREE WITH THE UNIFORMITY REASONING FROM THE CITY OF MAKING THAT FROM 1532 FROM 'CAUSE OF ALL THE DISCUSSION WE'VE HAD HERE.
DO YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE GO WITH THE LANGUAGE AS PRESENTED.
3 32 SECOND SQUARE FEET IN SIZE.
I HAD ADDITIONAL COMMENTS BASED ON, UM, WHAT AMIN SAID.
AMIN, WE STRUGGLE WITH THIS NOT JUST IN AN OVERLAY DISTRICT, BUT WITH D S D AS A WHOLE, WHEN THEY INTERACT WITH RESIDENTS UNDERSTANDING WHAT OTHER OVERLAYS THEY LIVE IN.
WE RUN INTO THIS WITH HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
WE RUN INTO THIS WITH NEIGHBORHOOD CONSERVATION DISTRICTS.
WE RUN INTO THIS WITH FLOODPLAIN.
THEY'LL SAY, OH, YOU DON'T NEED A PERMIT TO PUT A NEW
[01:05:01]
DRIVEWAY ON YOUR PROPERTY THAT DOESN'T CONNECT TO CITY STREET, BUT YOU DO NEED A FLOOD PLAIN REVIEW IF YOU'RE IN A HUNDRED YEAR FLOODPLAIN.SO TO ME, THIS IS CONSISTENCY IN HOW, IF YOU'RE SAYING FOR YOUR STAFF, SO THAT YOU WANT UNIFORM UNIFORMITY, THAT WHEN AN OVERLAY OF ANY KIND IS ADOPTED, THAT THERE'S AN EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT OF INDIVIDUALS WHO INTERACT.
THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PLACED IN YOUR SYSTEM TO CATCH THESE THINGS WHEN YOU TRY TO ENTER 'EM.
BUT YOUR WHOLE POINT IS WHEN YOU GET THAT PHONE CALL.
AND SO FOR THAT REASON, I DON'T SUPPORT THIS, THIS COMPLETELY GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING IN EVERY OVERLAY THAT ANY INDIVIDUAL WOULD MAKE.
SO IF THE COMMITTEE TAKES ACTION TODAY, I WOULD HIGHLY REQUEST THE CITY WITHDRAW THEIR AMENDMENT.
I OFFICIALLY ALREADY WITHDRAW IT.
SO I'M NOT SURE WHY WE'RE DOING MOTION AND IT'S NOT WELL, BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT UP TO YOU WHETHER YOU SUBMITTED.
ONCE YOU'VE SUBMITTED IT, IT'S UP TO COMMITTEE TO EITHER CHOOSE TO ACT ON IT OR NOT ACT ON IT.
SO YOU BROUGHT UP A POINT, THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
NO, UH, IF, IF THE APPLICANT WITHDRAWS AND IT'S, IT'S NO LONGER VIABLE, BUT THE COMMITTEE CAN DO IT ON ITS OWN.
YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT WE CAN'T CONSIDER ANYTHING THAT THE COMMITTEE WANTS THE COMMITTER CONSIDER, RIGHT.
IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE APPLICANT HAS WITHDRAWN IT, UM, I GUESS THAT'S WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW.
SO IS DO YOU WISH TO, I I'M JUST ASKING, DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE WITH YOUR MOTION? WELL, I THINK AT THIS POINT, ONLY POINT OF ORDER WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND WE HAVE DISCUSSION.
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? OR AT SOME OTHER POINT? YEAH.
SO THERE'S A MOTION ON FROM THE COMMITTEE ON THE FLOOR TO ADOPT THIS.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? YEAH.
IT'S ALSO, YOU GOTTA HOLD THE, THERE'S ALSO POLITICAL SIGNS.
AND SOMETIMES THEY'RE NOT SO TEMPORARY, BUT THEY'RE GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER AND THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.
WE ALL, WE ALL AGREE WITH YOU.
HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT THEY FALL INTO A DIFFERENT CLASS THAN THESE BECAUSE THERE'S SOME, WOULD SOMEBODY EXPLAIN THAT AGAIN? THERE'S SOME SUPREME COURT CASE THAT PROHIBITS YOU FROM TAKING DOWN POLITICAL SIGNS.
YOU JUST DON'T WANT GO IN THAT ARENA LIKE WE'VE DISCUSSED.
YOU DON'T WANNA GO INTO THAT ARENA BECAUSE THEN THE CITY IS THEN POLICING WHO GETS TAKEN DOWN.
AND SO WE JUST DON'T TOUCH IT BASICALLY.
THERE CON OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, CONTENT NEUTRALITY AS, AS IT HAS TO BE RESPECTED.
SO WE CAN'T BE READING SIGNS AND DETERMINE IF THEY STAY UP OR NOT.
I MEAN, WE, WE WOULD ALL AGREE THAT THE, THE MOST EGREGIOUS VIOLATORS OF SIGN CLUTTER THAT LOOKS UGLY AND IS IN TONS OF PLACES THAT THEY DON'T BELONG ARE THE POLITICAL SIGNS.
BUT NOBODY REALLY HAS A GOOD ANSWER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T REGULATE.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY COME DOWN AND THEY'RE ALLOWED IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, YOU KNOW, DURING ELECTION SEASON, I BELIEVE.
AND THEY DON'T REQUIRE, THE CITY DOES NOT REQUIRE ALL THOSE SIGNS TO BE STICKERED AND, UH, TO BE PUT IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY.
AND NOBODY REALLY WANTS TO GO THERE.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS CORRECT OR INCORRECT.
AND IF YOU REALLY FEEL STRONGLY THAT THE CITY SHOULD START TAKING SIGNS DOWN THAT ARE IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY, UH, THAT ARE STICKERED, YOU'RE WELCOME TO SUBMIT THAT.
HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, NO, THERE IS NO CITY OFFICIAL OR CITY EMPLOYEE THAT IS GONNA START TAKING DOWN POLITICAL SCIENCE.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST NOT WELL, I'LL GIVE YOU, FOR INSTANCE, UM, I LIVE ON A BEAUTIFUL PARK AND I AM TAKING REAL ESTATE SIGNS DOWN FROM THAT PARK.
AND ONE TIME I WAS TAKING A POLITICAL SIGN DOWN FROM THE PARK AND THE POLICE THREATENED TO ARREST ME.
NOW I THINK THE POLICE WAS ON THE SIDE OF THAT PARTICULAR POLITICIAN.
YEAH, I'M NOT, I'M NOT GONNA GO THERE.
BUT I, I, I KNOW WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS AT PREVIOUS MEETINGS AND WE'VE ALL DECIDED TO STAY AWAY.
IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
OPPOSED? AND I'M GOING TO ABSTAIN.
SO IT'S THREE TO ONE, AND THEN LET'S GET THE VOTES OF THE NON-VOTING MEMBERS.
[01:10:01]
OKAY.SO LET, PLEASE LET THAT, THERE'S THREE OF US HERE TODAY.
SO WE, WE HAVE, UH, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
IT'S THREE BOARD MEMBERS, THREE, ONE ABSTENTION, ONE ABSTENTION, AND ONE AND THREE OF THE FOUR.
AND I WANT MINE RECORDED AS ZIONS.
WE ALL, WE ALL, YEAH, WE GOT THAT.
SO IF THE APPLICANT WITHDRAWS THE AMENDMENT, THEN THE, UM, ACTION FALLS, IT DOESN'T PROCEED TO THE BIG BOARD, IS THAT CORRECT? AS A PROCEDURAL? NO, IT, THIS IS GOING TO THE BIG BOARD AS A RECOMMENDATION.
THE THE COMMITTEE ONE ACT, ONCE THERE IS A MOTION ON THE FLOOR, IT MOVES FORWARD REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE APPLICANT DOES OR NOT.
IT'S NOT TH THIS IS THE ORDINANCE IS A BELONGS TO THE COMMITTEE AND THE WHOLE COMMITTEE.
SO IT GOES FORWARD TO THE BIG BOARD.
SO YOU'RE WELCOME AT THE BIG BOARD AND THE STA AND THEN THE CITY WOULD RECOMMEND DENIAL, YOU WOULD CHANGE YOUR RECOMMENDATION FOR YOUR AMENDMENT.
IS THAT CORRECT? NO, THIS, WHEN WE GO TO THE FULL BOARD, THIS NEEDS TO BE PRESENTED AS THE APPLICANT WITHDREW THE PROPOSAL, BUT THE SUBCOMMITTEE DID MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
THAT'S HOW IT'S GONNA BE PRESENTED.
ALONG WITH ALL MEMBERS OF WHO, HOW THE FAVOR OF ALL MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, BOTH APPOINTED AND NON APPOINTED WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE FULL BOARD ITEM NUMBER FIVE.
UH, SO THIS IS ANOTHER ITEM THAT CAME IN INTERNAL REVIEW FROM CSSA REQUEST TO MODIFY THE PHRASE, THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE USED IN A TOTAL OF SEVEN TIMES IN THE JULY 3RD, THIRD 2017 EDITION OF THE CHAPTER 28 SIGN CODE IN ORDINANCE, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY UNDER, AND LOOKING TO MODIFY, EITHER MAINTAIN THAT REFERENCE ORDINANCE SECTION TO BE EFFECTIVE THE DATE OF JULY 3RD, 2017, OR KEEP THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE LATEST VERSION OF THE ORDINANCE.
SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR HERE IS WE REFERENCED IT SEVEN TIMES.
THEY USED THE PHRASE, EFFECTIVE THE DATE OF THIS, OF THIS ORDINANCE.
SOMETIMES THAT DATE NEEDS TO BE MAINTAINED AT JULY 3RD, 2017.
CASE IN POINT, ONE OF THOSE IS THE DEMOLITION PERMITS THAT COULD BE USED FOR BILLBOARDS FOR THE TWO TO ONE COUPON SAID TWO YEARS UP TO, YOU KNOW, ANY DEMOLITION OF A BILLBOARD WITHIN TWO YEARS OF THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE COULD BE USED.
SO IF WE KEEP THAT LANGUAGE, THEN THAT MOVES THAT TWO YEARS, FIVE YEARS FORWARD OR SIX YEARS FORWARD, DEPENDING WHEN THIS GETS APPROVED VERSUS JUST TWO YEARS BEFORE JULY 3RD, 2017.
THERE WAS OTHER TIMES WHERE THE ORDINANCE AS IT GETS UPDATED, THAT SECTION NEEDS TO JUST KIND OF FOLLOW WITH THAT ORDINANCE.
SO IT'S, IT'S MORE OF A CLERICAL.
UH, WE SUBMITTED OUT ALL OF THOSE SEVENS.
I CAN PULL THOSE UP, BUT YEAH, I, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS MORE OF A CLERICAL ITEM DON'T NECESSARY.
SO IF WE CAN JUST GET A MOTION FOR THEM TO MAKE THE CHANGES THAT MAKE IT WORK.
OR DO YOU WANT TO SEE EVERY SINGLE ONE? I DON'T, BUT I'M, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO PUT THAT INTO MOTION.
JUST SAY I MOVE, I MOVE THAT WE ADOPT AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE.
I MOVE THAT WE ADOPT AGENDA NUMBER FIVE.
IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND SHALL US ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
OPPOSED? MY NON-VOTING MEMBERS ALL AGREE.
SO IS THERE A SUBSEQUENT, IS THERE A SUBSEQUENT DATE TO 2017? YEAH, IT WOULD BE THE DATE THAT THIS ORDINANCE GETS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL.
SO WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IS, THERE ARE SOME THINGS WITHIN THE ORDINANCE THAT WERE TWO YEARS FROM THE DATE OF 2017 AND THEY DON'T WANT TO EXTEND THEM.
LIKE, UH, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THE BILLBOARDS.
SO IF, IF YOU LEAVE THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT SAYS EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE, THEY'RE BASICALLY GRANTING THAT PERIOD TO START OVER.
AND THAT IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED SO FAR.
BUT THE SENIOR BLONDE IS NOT GETTING IT.
LET ME OR JERRY, YOU WANT ME TO GO AHEAD AND BRING UP THE EXAMPLES REAL QUICK? I CAN, YEAH.
SO, UH, ONCE I THINK THE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TWO YEAR, UH, OR WHICH ONE IS THAT? IT'S 31.
[01:15:01]
TWO FOR ONE CAN ON YOU MAKE IT, UH, ANYTIME THAT YOU DEMO.HERE, I'LL JUST LOOK OVER HERE.
SO THE BILLBOARD INDUSTRY, IF THEY WERE TO DEMO OUT A PER A BUILDING OR A PER A BILLBOARD, THEY WOULD GET A COUPON THAT THEY COULD RELOCATE.
ANOTHER UH, ONE, ONCE THEY DEMO TWO THEY COULD RELOCATE AND ADD AN, UH, SO IT'S A TWO FOR ONE TRADE OFF.
AND WE KINDA SAID WHEN THEY UPDATED THE, OR CREATED THE 2017, THIS WAS KIND OF A NEW PROGRAM.
SO THEY ADDED THAT IT WAS GOOD FOR TWO YEARS PRIOR.
SO REALLY IF YOU HAD A DEMOLITION PERMIT AND IT WAS APPROVED, YOU CAN PRESENT THAT TO THE CITY, THEN YOU COULD ASK FOR A COUPON.
TECHNICALLY IF WE DON'T UPDATE THAT DATE AND WE SAY ONCE IT'S APPROVED BY THE ORDINANCE, THEN ANY DEMOLITION COUPON THAT THEY HAVE BETWEEN 20 UH, 2015 AND 2020 WOULD NOW BECOME NU AND VOID BECAUSE IT'S NOT WITHIN TWO YEARS OF THIS NEW ORDINANCE.
SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE REFERENCING BACK, HEY, THAT THAT DEMOLITION COUPON IS STILL VALID AS LONG AS IT WAS APPROVED BY THE CITY AFTER THAT 27 ORDINANCE, NOT THE 2022 ORDINANCE OR 2023 DEPENDING ON WHEN THIS GETS FULLY ADOPTED.
AND PATTY, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, UH, WHAT IS THE DATE THAT YOU CAN GO BACK TO USE YOUR DEMO PERMITS? SO IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE.
SO ANY OFF-PREMISE SCIENCE STRUCTURE REMOVED BY THE CITY WITHIN TWO YEARS PRIOR TO JULY 3RD.
SO THAT WOULD BE JULY 3RD, 2015.
SO ANY DEMOLITION PERMIT OF JULY 3RD, 2015 IS STILL GONNA BE VALID.
SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S REFERENCED THEN, 'CAUSE WE DON'T CHANGE THAT LANGUAGE, THEN IT WOULD BECOME, SAY WE ADOPT THIS JULY 3RD, 2023, THEN IT WOULD ONLY BE DEMOLITION PERMITS FROM JULY 3RD, 2021, WHICH IS NOT THE INTENT.
SO WOULD, WOULD THAT DATE BE JULY 3RD 15? WELL, WE'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE THE LANGUAGE, SO IT'LL STILL BE TWO YEARS BEFORE JULY 3RD.
INSTEAD, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE.
I MEAN WE COULD'VE CHANGED IT TO THAT, BUT WE JUST KEPT THE, THE STRUCTURE THE SAME.
SO ARE THERE PERMITS OUT THERE FOR DEMOLITION THAT HAVE NOT BEEN USED AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE EXTENDING THIS FOR? CORRECT.
IF THEY, IF THEY HAVE TAKEDOWNS TECHNICALLY IF THEY STILL HAVEN'T, HAVEN'T PRESENTED IT TO US AND GOTTEN A COUPON, IF SOMEBODY FINDS ONE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN, THEN THAT WOULD STILL BE VALID TO SAY, HEY, I DEMOED IT SINCE 2015 AND I WOULD LIKE TO USE THAT AS A COUPON FOR A RELOCATION.
SO IT'S NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.
IT'S KEEPING EVERYTHING STATUS QUO.
IT'S JUST MAKING CLEAR IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WHAT THE DATES ARE.
SO THEY STILL HAVE, SO THEN THEY CAN DO A TAKE DOWN AND PUT UP A NEW SIGN? THAT IS CORRECT.
YOU AND IF THEY HAVE, ISN'T THAT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER DAY? OKAY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THEY WOULD LIKE THAT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? LET ME, LET ME JUST CLARIFY THIS.
SO AGAIN, THERE ARE SEVEN LOCATIONS IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WAS ADOPTED IN 2017 THAT STATES THIS EFFECTIVE DATE IS THE ORDINANCE DATE.
SO ALL WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS WHEN IT WAS APPROVED IN 2017 WHERE IT SAYS THIS ORDINANCE, WE ARE PUTTING THAT DATE THERE SAYING THIS IS THE DATE THAT WAS EFFECTIVE AT THE TIME OF THE 2017.
SO THAT WAY WE ARE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.
WE'RE NOT GIVING PEOPLE MORE TIME, LESS TIME.
WE'RE NOT CHANGING ANYTHING, WE ARE JUST MAKING SURE THAT WORD CHANGED TO THE 2017 DATE.
OTHERWISE, IF WE LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS, EVERY TIME WE ADOPT THE CODE, IT'S GONNA SAY THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE.
WHICH NOW IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON FOR THIS.
IT'S REALLY ADMINISTRATIVE CLEANUP.
AND THEN THANK YOU JEREMY FOR THAT.
AND JEREMY, CAN WE JUST GO BACK AND CHECK THE DATE? SO FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN IT SAYS PROSPECTIVELY AFTER JULY 3RD, 2017, THE WAY THAT LANGUAGE READS IS THAT IF THAT APPLIED TO A COUPON AND THAT COUPON WAS ISSUED ON JULY 3RD, 2016 AND IT HAD BEEN USED, IT'S NO GOOD.
AND SO I THINK YOU NEED TO GO BACK AND TRACK THAT DATE AS TO THE DATE OF WHEN THE ORDINANCE WENT INTO EFFECT, WHERE YOU GOT THESE COUPONS AND IT'S EVERY DATE AFTER THAT.
SO JUST IF YOU'LL CHECK THE DATES JUST TO MAKE SURE THEY JIVE WITH THAT.
BUT ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
OPPOSED MY NON-VOTING MEMBERS ALL.
SO THIS IS THE EXTERNAL REQUEST.
[01:20:01]
TO REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT FOR PERMITTING.THE TEMPORARY PLACEMENT OF TEMPORARY SIGNS WHEN THE PROPERTY LINES ARE THE RIGHT OF WAY DIRECTLY ABUTTING THE PROPERTY ON THE SIGN INSTALLER.
THIS IS UNDER THE SAME SECTION WE'VE BEEN KIND OF TALKING ABOUT A LOT TODAY.
UH, TEMPORARY SIGNS 28 74 C SPECIFIC FOR SMALL SIGNS.
SO I'M GONNA PULL UP THAT CODE LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WHO AND WHO SUBMITTED THIS ONE? THIS IS YOURS.
OH, THIS IS THE ONE FOR, FOR NEIGHBORHOOD SIGNS AND LITTLE DIRECTION.
SO BASICALLY THE REASON I SUBMITTED THIS IS A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS AND LIKE APARTMENT COMMUNITIES PUT SIGNS OUT THAT SHOULDN'T NEED TO GET STICKERED EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE IN THEIR FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTIES.
AND SO THIS COULD BE ANYTHING FROM WE HAVE TWO BEDROOM AVAILABLES OR POOL OR TENNIS COURTS, OR WE'RE HAVING A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING.
OR DON'T FORGET THAT IT'S OAK QUILT SEASON.
TECHNICALLY ALL THOSE SIGNS THAT ARE IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY REQUIRE A STICKER.
AND RATHER THAN MAKING IT, UH, MORE DIFFICULT, SO IF IT'S IN A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, IT WOULD BE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.
IF THEY PUT UP SOME SIGNS THAT ARE SAYING SLOW DOWN OR, UH, CHILDREN AT PLAY OR A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING TONIGHT, OR DON'T CUT YOUR TREES BECAUSE IT'S OAK WILT OR WHATEVER, THEY WOULD NOT NEED TO GET PERMITS IN APARTMENT COMMUNITIES THAT YOU KNOW ARE DOING SIMILAR THINGS LIKE FREEZE WARNING OR, UH, YOU KNOW, AMENITIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE.
AS LONG AS IT'S ON THE FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO GET THE STICKER.
SO COULD WE GET A MOTION TO APPROVE? MOTION TO APPROVE.
OKAY, WAIT UNTIL WE GET A SECOND.
SO IF YOU'LL GO BACK TO WHAT YOU'RE ADDING INTO THE ORDINANCE, I THINK WHAT THE CHAIR EXPLAINED AND WHAT THE VERBIAGE IS ON THE SCREEN IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
AND SO THAT IS, UM, MY ONLY CONCERN BECAUSE THIS TALKS ABOUT IN FRONT OF A BUSINESS BEING ADVERTISED, BUT THE CHAIR EXPLAINED PUTTING SIGNS IN FRONT OF, YOU KNOW, IN NEIGHBORHOODS AND HOAS.
AND UNLESS IT'S ON THE H O A OWNED PROPERTY OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD OWNED PROPERTY, IT WOULDN'T ADDRESS NEIGHBORHOOD SIGNS.
SO I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE INTENT, UH, IS THE INTENT YOU DESCRIBED, CAN WE JUST ADD NO, IT IT'S, IT WAS BOTH.
SO CAN WE ADD THE WORD JEREMY? CAN YOU DO EDITS PLACE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF A H O A? WELL, BUT THEN NOT EVERY IT HAS TO BE YEAH.
WELL, YEAH, BUT THAT WOULD BE A, I WOULD, I WAS GONNA CHANGE THE WORD BUSINESS TO PROPERTY.
PROPERTY OWNER? NO, JUST PROPERTY.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE TEMPORARY BANDIT SIGNS.
YOU KNOW, THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO GET A STICKER FOR MARK.
YOU MEAN THAT THIS WOULD BE CITYWIDE THAT NO ONE WOULD HAVE TO PERMIT A BANDIT SIGN? NO.
IF, IF YOU'RE PLACING THE BANDIT SIGN.
OKAY, SO LET, LET'S TAKE A APARTMENT JUST ON YOUR PROPERTY.
BETWEEN YOUR TWO BOUNDARIES IN THE STREET.
YOU WOULD NOT, IF YOU GO 10 FEET OFF OF YOUR BOUNDARY, YOU NEED A STICKER.
BUT IT, BUT IS YOUR ONSITE LIKE AT ONE OF YOUR PROPERTIES ON YOUR OWN LAND? ON OUR OWN LAND.
OR EVEN IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY BECAUSE NOBODY EXACTLY KNOWS WHERE THAT LINE IS.
BUT, BUT BASICALLY YOU TAKE THE TWO SIDE PROPERTY LINES, YOU GO OUT TO THE STREET, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO PUT WHATEVER YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, THE SMALL BANDIT SIGNS AND THEN WITHOUT HAVING TO GO DOWN TO THE CITY AND GET A STICKER.
HOWEVER, IF YOU'RE PUTTING DIRECTIONAL SIGNS LIKE A REAL ESTATE SIGN THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, A ESTATE SALE OR SALE HERE ON THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY,
[01:25:01]
YOU WOULD NEED TO HAVE A STICKER.BUT THE H O A WOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
SO IF WE CAN CHANGE THE WORD THAT TO IN FRONT OF A PROPERTY.
SO IT JUST TO CLARIFY IN THEORY, THIS DOESN'T, SINCE WE HAVE A SEPARATE SECTION FOR TEMPORARY SIGNS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, THIS DOESN'T NECESSARILY ADDRESS THAT.
IT'S JUST, IT IT IS THE PROPERTY, BUT IT IN THEORY DOESN'T EXTEND IT INTO THE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO WHY DON'T WE DELAY THIS AND I'LL GO BACK AND READ IT AND NEXT MEETING WE'LL PRESENT SOMETHING THAT HANDLES ALL THAT.
'CAUSE IT'S, IT NEEDS TO COVER BASICALLY EVERYTHING.
I MEAN, I'M ASSUMING THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE AN, THE CITY IS, HAS NO OBJECTION TO THE PROPERTY OWNER PLACING ABANDONED SIGN IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN PROPERTY, EVEN IF IT'S IN THE RIGHT OF WAY WITHOUT HAVING TO GO GET A STICKER.
SO ONCE AGAIN, THE, THE REASON THIS, YOU KNOW, WE BROUGHT THIS UP BEFORE.
AND THE CITY'S CONCERN ONCE AGAIN WITH THIS IS THE BANDIT SIDE PROGRAM IS HOW DO WE ENFORCE THE BANDIT SIDE PROGRAM? WE HAVE A LOT OF NON PERMITTED NON-ST STICKERED SIGNS OUT THERE AND, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO, TO TRAIN OUR STAFF.
NO, YOU CAN'T TOUCH THAT SIGN.
THAT DOESN'T HAVE A, YOU KNOW, BOTH OF THOSE DON'T HAVE PERMITS.
WHAT'S ALLOWED WAS NOT ALLOWED.
SO WE DO HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS, BUT ONCE AGAIN, THIS WAS A REQUEST THAT'S PRES PRESENTED.
WE'RE HAPPY TO PRESENT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE.
WELL, YEAH, BUT IF YOU, ONE OF THE REASONS I ADDED THE, THE, THE REQUIREMENT THAT IT, IT NEEDS TO AT LEAST SPECIFY THE BUSINESS THAT THEY'RE ADVERTISING.
IT CAN'T JUST BE THREE BEDROOMS AVAILABLE FOR AN APARTMENT COMPLEX THAT NOT SAY WHAT THAT APARTMENT COMPLEXES IS.
SO WE CAN DRIVE BY AND SAY, HEY, THREE BEDROOMS AVAILABLE, THIS ISN'T PERMITTED, BUT IT'S THREE BEDROOMS AVAILABLE AT THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY THOUGH, WHICH IS AS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF YEAH, BUT THAT'S, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE GONNA WANT TO PUT ON IT ON A LITTLE BANDIT.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BIG ENOUGH TO WHERE THE DRIVERS CAN SEE IT.
BUT WE NEED SOME WAY IN ORDER TO POLICE THE BANDIT SIGNS SOME WAY TO SAY, LOOK, THIS SIGN MEETS THAT REQUIREMENT BECAUSE IT'S SPECIFIC FOR THIS BUSINESS, OUR PROPERTY, WHATEVER THAT PROPERTY WANTS TO ADVERTISE IS FOR DIRECTLY WITHOUT THAT, THEN HOW DO WE DISCERN THAT FROM A FOUR, THREE BEDROOM AVAILABLE, YOU KNOW, WITH A PHONE, IT WANTS THE HOUSE.
SO, SO LET'S, LET'S SEND THIS BACK AND, AND WE'LL, I'LL WORK WITH YOU ON THE LANGUAGE AND BRING IT BACK.
BE JUST ONE ADDITIONAL THING THAT, UH, JEREMY, I GUESS DIDN'T TALK ABOUT.
SO THIS GONNA BE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
SO IF I HAVE A SHOPPING CENTER WITH 10 TENANTS, TECHNICALLY EACH TENANT CAN PUT A SIGN OUT THERE.
AND IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANT TO DO AGAIN, THIS, THIS BASICALLY GONNA OPEN THE DOOR, BUT THEY CAN DO IT WITH AND FLOOD THE CITY WITH BANDIT SIGNS, RIGHT? YEAH.
UH, I THINK WE'LL HAVE THAT DISCUSSION AND THEN WE'LL BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE.
UH, SO SIMILAR TO NUMBER SEVEN, THIS IS NUMBER ITEM NUMBER EIGHT.
THIS WAS THE EXTERNAL REQUEST TO AMEND ARTICLE FOUR, DIVISION TWO, SUBDIVISION B OFF-PREMISE SIGNS TO PERMIT SIGNED BUILDERS TO CONVERT EXISTING 14 BY 48 FEET STATIC SIGNS, FACE SIGNS TO DIGITAL SIGNS ALONG WITH LIMITED HIGHWAYS WITHIN THE CITY.
THE APPLICANT PRESENTED TO THE COMMITTEE PREVIOUSLY A PRESENTATION ABOUT THIS REQUEST.
UH, MOSTLY WHAT WE WANNA DO IS SUMMARIZE WHERE THE WORKING GROUP IS AT CURRENTLY.
THE FIRST MEETING OF THAT WORKING GROUP WAS LAST WEEK.
THERE WAS BOTH INDUSTRY AND CITIZENS, PUBLIC ENTITIES.
ULTIMATELY, I THINK WHAT CAME OUT OF IT, AND DEFINITELY PLEASE SPEAK IF YOU'RE AT THAT MEETING, I DON'T WANNA MISSPEAK, BUT THE, THE TAKEAWAY WAS THERE'S A LOT OF GUIDANCE GIVEN TO THE INDUSTRY TO TRY TO FIND SOMETHING THAT MAY WORK WITH THAT DIGITAL CONVERSION THAT WOULD MEET, UH, THE CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO'S REQUEST AS WELL AS BE VIABLE TO THEM.
UM, THAT WE COULD CODIFY THE, THE STAFF HAS SENT OUT AN EMAIL TO ALL THE BILLBOARD OWNERS WITHIN THE CITY AND NOTIFYING THEM OF THIS WORK WITH THE HOPE THAT THAT INDUSTRY WOULD THEN KIND OF TAKE THAT EMAIL, START COMMUNICATING AMONGST THEMSELVES, COME UP WITH SOME GUIDELINES THAT WOULD THEN COME BACK TO THAT WORKING GROUP, UH, TO REVIEW AT THIS TIME.
SO HERE, JUST IN SUMMARY, AND I'M PROBABLY NOT GONNA GET EVERYTHING, SO YOU'RE WELCOME TO ADD, IF I MISS SOMETHING.
YOU KNOW, THE FIRST AREA THAT WE, WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE MEETING IS WHAT IS THE CURRENCY THAT IS GOING TO BE USED TO PAY FOR THE CONVERSION? AND WHEN I SAY THAT CURRENCY NOT BEING NECESS, NOT BEING NECESSARILY MONEY, IT COULD BE TAKING SIGNS DOWN.
[01:30:01]
PAYING THE CITY AN ANNUAL FEE, A PERCENTAGE OF THE REVENUE.IT COULD BE ADVERTISING TIME FOR THE CITY ON THE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS TO MAKE THEM WHAT I CALL COMMUNITY MESSAGING BOARDS ALL OVER THE CITY.
SO THAT WAS THE FIRST THING, NOTHING GOT DECIDED, BUT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
THE SECOND THING THAT, UH, WE ASKED FOR IS IF ANYBODY HAD INFORMATION ON THE EFFECTS OF REGULAR STATIC BILLBOARDS VERSUS DIGITAL BILLBOARDS AS TO THEIR EFFECT ON, UH, DARK SKIES TO PLEASE PRESENT THAT TO THE COMMITTEE FOR REVIEW.
AND THIRD THING WAS, IS WHERE THE SIGNS, YOU KNOW, IF THE CURRENCY IS TAKE DOWN, YOU KNOW, WHERE THOSE SIGNS SHOULD COME DOWN AND WHAT THE RULES FOR THAT PROCESS SHOULD BE.
WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, SPACING REQUIREMENTS FOR DIGITAL BILLBOARDS.
UH, WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT ANYTHING, WELL, HERE, ANY, I KNOW WE HAD A COUPLE MORE THINGS.
ONE OF MINE WAS, UM, TIMING AND YOU KNOW, HOW MANY SHOULD BE TAKEN DOWN AT A TIME AND, AND WOULD THERE BE AN ADDITIONAL PROCESS WHERE THE CITY DETERMINED IF MORE SIGNS COULD BE CONVERTED? YEAH.
AND, AND THIS WOULD BASICALLY, IF THIS, AGAIN, AND I WOULD, WE'RE NOT DOING THIS INTO THE SIGN ORDINANCE.
THIS WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE SIGN COMMITTEE TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
UH, SO I JUST WANNA MAKE THAT CLEAR, BIANCA.
WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STATIC AND A DIGITAL BILLBOARD AND THE IMPACTS FROM THE VISIBILITY, THE, THE, UM, WHAT A DIGITAL BILLBOARD HAS AS FAR AS COLOR SPECTRUM IN COMPARISON TO A STATIC, HOW VIBRANT IT IS.
UM, WE TALKED ABOUT THE EVOLUTION.
WE DIDN'T GO INTO THE ALL THE DETAILS, BUT THE EVOLUTION OF HOW THE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS STARTED IN SAN ANTONIO AND WHERE THEY ARE TODAY.
WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY MARKET SHARE.
WE ASKED CLEAR CHANNEL AND OUT FRONT TO WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE THEY BOTH HAVE PROPOSALS THAT THEY WERE PRESENTING, UM, IN THIS PROCESS BECAUSE THERE'S A CONCERN WITH, UM, A CERTAIN, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRY INDIVIDUAL THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO TAKE DOWN.
SO THERE WAS CONVERSATION OF TAKE DOWN VERSUS, UH, BILLBOARD CREDITS, I GUESS PER SE.
THIS WAS SOME OF THE DISCUSSION THAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU LEFT, UM, THE MEETING.
AND THEN WE ALSO TOLD THEM ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THINGS ABOUT IN THE INDUSTRY, UM, IN REGARDS TO WE, WE TALKED ABOUT SPACING.
WHAT ELSE DID WE MENTION? I'M, DO YOU REMEMBER THE REST? WE, WE DISCUSSED OUTREACH TO SOME OF THE SMALLER
SO, SO THE, THE GAME PLAN IS TO SEE IF THERE IS SOME KIND OF MIDDLE GROUND THAT EVERYBODY, UH, CAN AGREE TO.
IT WOULD SET UP JUST THE FRAMEWORK OF THE RULES SO THAT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, WHAT I CALL SEPARATE DEALS DON'T NEED TO BE CUT EVERY TIME SOMEBODY WANTS TO PUT A DIGITAL BILLBOARD.
ONE THING THAT CAME TO MY MIND AS I WAS DRIVING, UH, HOME FROM THE MEETING WAS, OKAY, THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS, UH, THAT BILLBOARDS YOU, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM DOWN.
AND IF WE CAN IDENTIFY THOSE AREAS THAT I WOULD SAY ARE MOST IMPORTANT IS POSSIBLY GIVING EXTRA CREDIT FOR TAKING BILLBOARDS DOWN WITHIN THOSE AREAS OR CORRIDORS OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL 'EM, TO WHERE THEY MAY GET A BONUS CREDIT FOR TAKING ONE DOWN WITHIN AN AREA THAT WE WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE ONE COME DOWN VERSUS, YOU KNOW, TAKING IT SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE THE CREDITS ARE THE SAME EVERYWHERE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GONNA GET ADDED TO THE DISCUSSION POINT TO DO THAT.
SO THERE'S, WE'RE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS, IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE AT LEAST THREE OR FOUR MEETINGS TO DO THAT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST STARTING BLOCKS IS, IS TO GET SOME, YOU KNOW, LIKE I STARTED OUT WITH IS, YOU KNOW, DOES IT HAVE AN EFFECT IF, IF ALL THE BILLBOARDS GOT CHANGED OUT TO DIGITAL, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE EFFECT ON THE DARK SKY PLUS OR MINUS? SO THAT WE JUST HAVE THAT IN MIND BECAUSE I KNOW THAT IS A CONCERN.
[01:35:01]
ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE IDENTIFIED.SO WE SPENT THE WHOLE MEETING IDENTIFYING WHAT THE ISSUES THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS, AS WE START WORKING ON EACH INDIVIDUAL ITEM, WE'LL HAVE A FRAMEWORK TO SAY, OKAY, WE'VE HANDLED THIS, THIS, THIS, AND THIS.
SO I HAVE MORE FOR YOUR LIST THAT I THOUGHT OF AFTER THE MEETING TO, OKAY, SO IF YOU'LL DO ME A FAVOR, THIS WAS THIS, THIS IS NOT A COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, SO IF YOU WILL GET THAT LIST TO JEREMY, HE WILL SEND IT OUT TO THE WORKING GROUP AND WE WILL PASS THAT AROUND AMONG US TO ADD IT TO THE LIST OF THINGS TO CONSIDER.
I WAS JUST REPORTING, IT'S JUST TWO ITEMS AND IT WAS AGENDA, SO I FIGURED I COULD GO AHEAD, ADAM.
UM, IT'S KIND OF A BROAD CATEGORY.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, UNDERSTANDING YOUR ENERGY CONSUMPTION OF AN L E D DIGITAL BILLBOARD COMPARED TO YOUR STATIC BILLBOARD NUMBER ONE.
AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS WITH ALL THOSE FACES ON YOUR STATIC BILLBOARDS WHEN THEY ARE REMOVED? UM, LIKE WHATEVER THE SCREENING MATERIAL.
DO YOU RECYCLE IT FOR THE IMAGING THAT'S ON YOUR STATIC BILLBOARDS? YEAH, I RECYCLE IT.
SO IF YOU, IF YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, JUST INCLUDE THAT IN SOME INFORMATION THAT YOU FOLLOW BACK UP TO US.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS REPORT, UH, ON THE DARK SKIES AND HOW IT WOULD THE DARK SKIES WOULD BE AFFECTED.
I MEAN, WELL HERE WE, WE ASKED INCLUDING PATTY TO SEND IT TO JEREMY AND THEN THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE COMMITTEE THERE.
IF YOU, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO START ATTENDING, YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME, YOU KNOW, AND GET A RESPONSE.
GET A RESPONSE FROM MS. DAVIES.
I TOLD JEREMY IT WAS OKAY TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER THIS MEETING TO REALLY BUG HER TO CALL BACK BECAUSE THEY'D BEEN BUSY.
THEY HAD AN APPEAL YESTERDAY ON A, ON SOMETHING AND SO THEY'VE BEEN SWAMP BUSY AND SO I GAVE OKAY TO WAIT TO START BUGGING HER UNTIL THIS AFTERNOON.
SO YE YES, BECAUSE THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF, I HEAR TWO THINGS WHEN I SAY NO BILLBOARD, NO DIGITAL BILLBOARDS.
ONE IS, YOU KNOW, THE LIGHTING INTO THE ATMOSPHERE AND THE OTHER ONE IS TRAFFIC SAFETY AND, AND YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE TWO BIG ISSUES ALONG WITH THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE IDENTIFIED THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT AND IT COULD BE THE BRIGHTNESS IN THE DRIVER'S EYES, BUT I PUT THAT INTO THE TRAFFIC CATEGORY.
AND SO WE WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO GET SOME INFORMATION ON BOTH.
AND THEN IF THE COMMITTEE FEELS THAT IT'S NEUTRAL, YOU KNOW, THEN IT, THAT DISCU THAT POINT JUST GETS KICKED AND WILL PAY ATTENTION TO EVERYTHING ELSE.
IF DIGITAL BILLBOARDS PRODUCE MUCH MORE AMBIENT LIGHT INTO THE ATMOSPHERE, THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.
AND ESPECIALLY WHERE THEY ARE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE WHICH IS TRUE 'CAUSE I'VE READ ARTICLES ON THE INTERNET BOTH WAYS.
AND SO I HAVE SPENT, YOU KNOW, FIVE HOURS THIS WEEKEND TRYING TO GET EDUCATED.
AND IT'S HARD BECAUSE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHO'S PRODUCING THE STUDY, IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHICH WAY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AS WE FOUND THROUGH THE COVID THING, YOU KNOW, THEY START OUT WITH HERE'S THE CONCLUSION AND NOW LET'S GO PROVE THE REPORT.
AND SO I WOULD JUST, YOU KNOW, LIKE TO TRY TO GET ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT, SO WE'VE ASKED THE DARK SKY COMMUNITY TO SUBMIT REPORTS AND IF IN FACT, UH, THE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS ARE HAVE LESS EFFECT ON DARK SKIES, SO THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT BECOMES AN ARGUMENT TO DO MORE OF THEM THAN LESS.
AND IF THEY INCREASE AMBIENT LIGHT INTO THE DARK SKY, THAT MAY BE AN ARGUMENT TO DO MUCH LESS.
SO THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION MARK, I GET THAT THAT REASONING FOR ALL THOSE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY THE DARK SKY, I THINK THAT'S ALWAYS A, A MAJOR CONCERN THAT WE, WE'VE GOTTA LOOK INTO IT.
I'M SURE THEY HAVE, UH, AND HAVE THAT STUDY.
BUT YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH THE, THE WHOLE ARENA OF ALL THIS, I MEAN, MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING, AND IT'S AGAIN, I'M SURE THERE'S STUDIES FROM POLICE AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT IT SEEMS LIKE THE MAJORITY OF ISSUES WITH DRIVING AND ACCIDENTS AND DRIVER SAFETY IS, IS SAPPING, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S STARING AT THEIR PHONE, THEY'RE DRIVING.
[01:40:01]
THINGS IS, IS IS PROBABLY THE MOST SIGNAGE THAT CAUSES ACCIDENTS ON THE HIGHWAY IS THE TXDOT SIGN THAT IT DOES AMBER ALERTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE SLOW DOWN TO READ THE AMBER ALERT AND GET REAR-ENDED.AND THERE WAS SOME KIND OF STUDY THAT WAS JUST RELEASED BY TDOT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT SIGNAGE, BUT YOU KNOW, WHICH I FOUND TO BE, YOU KNOW, NOT FUNNY, BUT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF IRONIC.
BUT ALSO THE SILVER ALERTS THAT EVERYBODY'S MAKING SURE THAT'S, WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, THE SIGN NOT THEIR PARENT OR THEIR FRIEND.
THE, THE SILVER ALERT, YOU KNOW, THE MESSAGE BOARD THAT GOES RIGHT ACROSS THE HIGHWAY THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY, THE THE LETTERS, THE SIGN IS, IS TOO SMALL TO HAVE THE LETTERS BIG ENOUGH TO SEE IT FAR A BIT ENOUGH SO WHEN PEOPLE GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO READ IT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HAVING ACCIDENTS.
SO THAT WAS JUST KIND OF IRONIC AND I THINK IT WAS JUST ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT THAT DOES CAUSE DISTRACTION AND ACCIDENT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE MOST HIGHEST CAUSE.
BUT IT WAS JUST, IT WAS A LITTLE IRONIC THAT SOMETHING THEY PUT UP TO HELP PROMOTE SAFETY IS ACTUALLY NOT NECESSARILY DOING THAT.
BUT IT, IT WASN'T TALKING AT ALL ABOUT THE BILLBOARDS OR ANYTHING, BUT I BELIEVE WHEN THEY DID THE BILLBOARDS THE SECOND TIME, PART OF THE STUDY THAT WAS DONE AND ASKED FOR BEFORE THEY WENT TO ROUND TWO IS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT BASICALLY GAVE A PRESENTATION TO COUNSEL BETWEEN BILLBOARD OR DIGITAL NUMBER ONE AND DIGITAL NUMBER TWO SAYING THERE WAS NO APPRECIABLE DIFFERENCE IN TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS ON THE HIGHWAY.
AND I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE TWO BIGGEST CAUSES OF, UH, IS MAKEUP AND CELL PHONES
NO, I'M BEING, I'M BEING SERIOUS.
I MEAN, I, I ALMOST GOT HIT ON THE WAY DOWN HERE.
'CAUSE SOME OF THE LA SOMEBODY WAS, YOU KNOW, PUTTING ON AN EYELINER.
AND, AND NUMBER THREE PROBABLY IS KIDS IN THE CAR.
I WAS GONNA SAY, HOW ARE YOU GONNA GET RID OF THEM? YEAH.
SO, OKAY, SO COMMENT QUESTION.
UM, IN REGARDS TO THESE TRANSITIONS, WE NEED TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION A STATIC TO POTENTIAL DIGITAL IN A NEIGHBORHOOD AREA OR JA ADJACENT TO A NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND RIGHT, THE ZONING, IN OTHER WORDS, WHERE THEY CAN BE LOCATED IS ALSO PART I WAS ON THE LIST THAT, THAT I REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT.
OKAY, SO ITEM, THERE ARE NO MORE ITEMS. DIRECTOR'S REPORTS.
YOU CAN GET ALL THE STUFF ON THE WEBSITE AGAIN, AND IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS CALLED SITE CODE REVIEW AT SAN ANTONIO, DID THAT, THAT'S, THANK YOU.
THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR COMING.
AND THEN JUST AS A REMINDER, WE CANCELED THE DIGITAL BILLBOARD WORKING GROUP MEETING THIS WEEK TO ALLOW EVERYBODY TO HAVE SOME TIME TO DO THAT.
I FIGURED YOU GUYS KNOW PART OF THAT.
JEREMY, WHEN'S THE NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING OF A WORKING GROUP? SO SEPTEMBER 1ST, NEXT MEETING OF THE WORK GROUP IS THE SEPTEMBER 1ST.
I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MOVE IT TO ONE 30 DUE TO AVAILABILITY OF ROOM.
SO IT'D BE SECOND, FIRST AT ONE 30 FOR THE DIGITAL CONVERSION.
THE OTHER WILL DECIDE IF WE NEED ANOTHER WORKING GROUP FOR THE, WE'RE NOT MEETING ON THIS AND PROBABLY UNTIL THE WORKING GROUPS ARE DONE.