[ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items ]
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I,[00:11:33]
AND I'D LIKE TO ASK EVERYBODY IF YOU HAVE A INSPECTION ISSUE TO HOLD IT TILL WE GET TO THAT SECOND ONE.BUT THIS IS, DO THE STANDARDS NEED TO BE CHANGED? AND NOBODY HAS TALKED AT ALL ABOUT MOVING THE STANDARDS LOWER AT THIS POINT.
SO IF WE CAN GET A MOTION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, HAVE TO EITHER.
HAVE WE HEARD FROM THE PERSON WHO FORTH THIS, THIS IS DISTRICT 10 SHARED, UH, REACHED OUT TO DISTRICT 10 YESTERDAY, TALKED TO THEM, KINDA LET 'EM KNOW OUR RECOMMENDATION, AND THEY, THEY WERE IN FAVOR OF THAT, THAT WE WERE RECOMMENDING THAT WE DIDN'T CHANGE THE VALUES, BUT THAT WE DO MORE EDUCATION AND, YOU KNOW, WORK ON THE EDUCATION AND ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF IT.
AND I WOULD ASK IT, IT'S GERMANE TO CHANGING THE STANDARDS.
IF, IF IT'S ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD INSPECT OR EDUCATION.
LET'S HOLD IT UNTIL COLLEEN'S AMENDMENT.
MY QUESTION IS, WHEN THEY CALL 3 1 1, WHERE DOES THE CITY DIRECT THESE COMPLAINTS AT, SAY, CITY? WELL, I MEAN, ASCA WAS SAYING THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CALL IN DIRECTED AT THREE ONE ONE.
SO ONE, THE FIRST MOVE WOULD BE TO WORK WITH 3 1 1.
SEE IF WE CAN IMPROVE THE APP TO ADD THIS AS A, AN EASY APP SECTION, UM, OR AT LEAST A NOTIFICATION ON THERE OF IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING EMAILED THIS.
UH, BUT THE, WE WOULD WORK ON THAT.
I, I, I DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION FOR THAT CORRECTLY RIGHT NOW, BUT THE INTENT IS TO FIND A SOLUTION TO BE EDUCATING BETTER AND ALSO HAVE THAT COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE CITIZEN AND STAFF SO THAT WE CAN GET OUT THERE.
ONCE WE GET THE INFORMATION AND WE KNOW ABOUT A SIGN, WE'RE VERY PROACTIVE.
WE CAN GET OUT THERE AND LOOK AT IT, UH, AS SOON AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.
IT'S MORE JUST THAT COMMUNICATION OF YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT ABOUT A SIGN, GET THAT INFORMATION TO US SO WE CAN GO OUT THERE AND, AND RETROACTIVELY TAKE CARE OF IT.
YEAH, I SEE THIS, THERE'S A PARALLEL SITUATION WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
CODE ENFORCEMENT IS, IS ENFORCING THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
THIS IS A POLLUTION, AN EYE POLLUTION, UM, SITUATION.
SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMEPLACE WHERE YOU CAN CALL, UM, 'CAUSE IT'S A, THAT'S BASIC, IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE.
I MEAN, THERE WOULD BE A NUMBER AND WE'LL COME WITH THAT.
IT JUST DON'T, PROBABLY WON'T BE A LIVE ACT, A LIVE STAFF TO TALK TO AT TWO IN THE MORNING, BUT LEAVE A MESSAGE.
WE'LL ACTIVELY REACH OUT TO YOU THE NEXT DAY.
UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, OUR ASSIGNED COMMITTEE OR OUR ASSIGNED TEAM WOULD BE THE POINT OF CONTACT FOR THAT.
AND ARE YOU TRACKING WHERE MOST OF THE COMPLAINTS ARE COMING FROM? WHICH AREA OF THE CITY IS GETTING MOST HERE? CAN I, CAN WE HOLD OFF ANY OF THE INSPECTION QUESTIONS? WE HAVE A ITEM ON THE, THE DEAL.
ALL THIS IS SAYING IS, DO WE WANT TO CHANGE THE STANDARDS OR NOT? SO AS CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE COMMENTS THAT ARE GERMANE TO THAT ISSUE SO WE CAN JUST GET TO THE BIGGER ISSUE AND WE'LL HAVE ALL THAT DISCUSSION WITHIN THAT ISSUE, IF YOU WILL ALLOW ME THAT.
I, I GUESS I'M NOT GONNA GET AN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION,
UM, BUT I THINK IT'S COMPREHENSIVE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT STANDARDS, I THINK THE CITY SHOULD ALSO ADHERE TO THOSE STANDARDS, UM, WITH THEIR ON DIGITAL PREMISE SIGNS.
AND I THINK THAT'S BEEN AN ISSUE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST.
UM, BUT ONCE AGAIN, IT GOES TO THE, THE TOPIC OF WHAT WE'RE DOING IN, IN GENERAL FOR SIGNS AND THE, THE CONFUSION THAT WE HAVE WITH PEOPLE WITH
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ON-PREMISE AND OFF PREMISES.WE SEEK TO ADD MORE DIGITAL SIGNS IN OUR RIGHT OF WAY.
WE WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY'S A GOOD ACTOR.
AND SO WE WANNA UPHOLD THESE STANDARDS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.
UM, HOW, HOW DOES THIS TIE IN WITH, UM, ITEM NUMBER THREE? IT, ITEM NUMBER THREE BEING PUTTING THE RULES CITYWIDE? UH, SO ITEM NUMBER THREE IS THE, UH, IN DARK SKY CHANGING THE HILL COUNTRY.
UH, UH, OVERLAY AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND PROVIDING IT WOULD, IT WOULD, IF WE CHANGE NUMBER THREE, IT WOULD AFFECT THIS ONE, BUT THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING THIS IS JUST A STANDALONE.
SO IF WE CAN JUST GET TO THE NEXT ITEM, WE CAN START HAVING THAT DISCUSSION.
SO, WELL, AND CHAIR, I, I THINK THERE IS A LITTLE GERMANE HERE.
SO NUMBER THREE, THEY HAVE MADE SOME REQUIREMENTS, AND THIS HAS GONE THROUGH THE U D C, SO ANYTHING WITHIN THE M L O D AND THERE'S NO MORE LONGER, UH, REGION ONE AND REGION TWO OF THAT.
AND NOW IT'S ALL AREAS OF THE M L O D.
THEY HAVE INCREASED THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE KELVIN, NOTHING AS FAR AS THE KNITS MEASUREMENTS OR THE FOOT CANDLE MEASUREMENTS, BUT THEY CHANGED THE LIGHT, COLOR OR TEMPERATURE.
AND, AND, UH, DON WILL BE UP HERE FOR NUMBER THREE TO KIND OF CLARIFY THAT A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN I CAN.
UH, BUT, SO THERE WILL BE SOME NEW REQUIREMENTS, AT LEAST WITHIN THE M L O D NUMBER THREE IS TO ULTIMATELY MAKE THOSE UNIVERSAL FOR THE CITY.
I THINK THERE MIGHT BE OTHER COUPLE ITEMS. I DON'T WANNA, UM, SIMPLIFY TOO MUCH FOR THAT ONE.
BUT THERE, SO IN THAT, IN THAT SAME VEIN, WE'RE ALREADY SEEING A NEW REQUIREMENT OF, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOTTA MEET KNITS, IT'S GOTTA MEET THE FOOT CANDLE, AND NOW IT HAS TO HAVE IN THE M L O D LOWER KELVIN TEMPERATURE LIGHTS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
SO ASSUMPTION WOULD BE THERE'S A REDUCTION.
AND OUR STAFF'S THOUGHT IS, INSTEAD OF CHANGING MULTIPLE THINGS, LET'S SEE HOW THIS GOES, SEE WHAT THE CHANGE IS OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE'RE GETTING LESS COMPLAINTS AS WELL.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO ADD IN OR CHANGE LATER, WE CAN, WHEN WE REEVALUATE CHAPTER 28.
SO YOU'RE SAYING ACTION WE TAKE ON THIS WILL NOT AFFECT THE POSSIBLE ACTIONS WE COULD TAKE ON THAT, CORRECT? YEAH, NO, THAT IS CORRECT.
THAT WAS THE ONLY CLEAR, I'M SORRY.
ARE YOU LOOKING FOR MOTION? I WOULD LIKE A MOTION, BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE IT.
THAT APPROVES THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO KEEP THE, THAT IS, WELL, JUST TO REJECT THAT APPLICANT REJECT THE AMENDMENT.
SO, SO IF I CAN GET ONE OF THE TWO VOTING MEMBERS TO JUST MAKE A MOTION TO REJECT THIS, WELL RECOMMEND TO NOT APPROVE IS RECOMMEND TO NOT APPROVE.
IT'LL BE UP TO THE BOARD TO MAKE THAT FINAL DECISION.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO NOT RECOMMEND TO APPROVE THIS.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
OPPOSED? ABSTENTIONS AND I VOTE? YES.
SO CHAIR, SINCE WE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COLLEEN'S ITEM, I KNOW DON'S HERE AND I'M NOT TRYING TO, BUT WE'RE KIND OF IN THAT VEIN ALREADY.
DO WE WANNA MOVE TO THAT AGENDA ITEM OR DO WE WANNA TALK ABOUT YES, WE COULD DO THAT RIGHT NOW.
I THINK, WE'LL, OKAY, LET ME SEE WHICH ONE THAT IS.
SO THIS WOULD BE AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE.
AND THIS CAME IN, UM, AN EXTERNAL REQUEST TO INSTITUTE AN ANNUAL INSPECTION FEE PER SECTION 28 DASH 76 FEE SCHEDULE FOR AN PREMISE DIGITAL SCIENCE TO COVER COST OF ENSURING THAT ACTION OF AND BRIGHTNESS OF SIGN REMAINS CONSISTENT WITH CODE.
THE FEE SHALL NOT APPLY TO DIGITAL SIGNS THAT PASS INITIAL INSPECTION CAN ONLY REMAIN STATIC OR CHANGE MANUALLY, SUCH AS GAS PRICES AND ARE NOT ABLE TO HAVE LIGHT INTENSITY INCREASE.
WE'VE HAVE NOT BROUGHT THIS FORMALLY TO THE COMMITTEE.
THAT'S WHY I ADDED THIS ONE TO THIS SO WE CAN TAKE ACTION ON IT.
THIS WAS MORE OF A DISCUSSION ORIGINALLY.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND, BUT I, I THINK FROM THAT DISCUSSION WE, WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT, WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE? UH, BUT I I, FROM OUR DISCUSSION WITH AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, THE INTENT IS THIS MIGHT BE WHERE RECOMMENDATION COULD COME, YOU KNOW, UH, I'VE HEARD FROM THE NON APPOINTED MEMBERS THAT MAYBE STAFFING IS TOO LOW, YOU KNOW, WE COULD USE THIS AS A RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, TO COUNCIL AS WE ADOPT CHAPTER 28 IN THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR TO WORK ON INCREASING STAFFING, WHETHER THAT IS IN CORRELATION WITH A FEE OR NOT.
UH, BUT ALSO ONCE AGAIN, THAT GETTING THE NOTIFICATION OUT THERE, UH, WORKING WITHIN THIS TO, UH, DO A BETTER JOB OF EDUCATING OUR COMMUNITY AND COMING UP WITH WAYS TO, UH, PROVIDE THAT COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND OUR ASSIGNED STAFF SO THAT WE CAN GO AFTER ANY SIGNS THAT ARE OUT OF COMPLIANCE, WHETHER THAT BE PROACTIVELY THROUGH THIS PROCESS OR SOME OTHER PROCESS THAT WE HAVE.
YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEM WITH THIS, IT WOULD BE A NIGHT CREW, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, COULD BE THE MEASURE.
I DON'T THINK WE COULD, YOU KNOW, SET STAFF TO SAY THAT WE WANNA MOVE TO THIS.
BUT IF THE COMMITTEE WANTS TO RECOMMEND SOMETHING AS FAR AS WE WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING, BEING MORE PROACTIVELY LOOKING AT DIGITAL SCIENCE THROUGHOUT THE CITY, OR IF IT'S MORE BOLSTERING, UH, THE REACTIVE APPROACH THAT WE CURRENTLY USE BY EDUCATION AND INCREASING THAT COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE CITIZENS AND THE STAFF.
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BUT, UM, I KNOW THE APPLICANT FOR THIS ONE IS HERE, SO I, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ON IT, ON THE STAFF SIDE.BUT COLLEEN, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU WANT TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT.
UM, NO, I, I JUST LIKE TO HEAR.
SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS, IS A ANNUAL INSPECTION FEE.
SO WE'RE DO, WE'RE WE'RE HAVING AN INSPECTION PROGRAM, LIKE A A, A TAX ON HAVING A DIGITAL SIGN AND ADDITION TO EVERY OTHER COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
SO, SO IN A CITY OF 1.2 MILLION PEOPLE, WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 60, UM, SIGNED VIOLATIONS IN FIVE YEARS.
AND WE WANNA ADD A TEXT 120, NO, 48% OF WHICH FAILED.
JUST AT LEAST THROUGH THE REACTIVE APPROACH THAT WE HAVE.
ONCE AGAIN, I, I THINK, UH, FROM WHAT THE COMMUNITY'S SAYING HERE, IS THAT INCONCLUSIVE TO THE AMOUNT OF SIGNS THAT ARE OVERLY BRIGHT AND NOT WITHIN COMPLIANCE? IT'S HARD TO SAY BECAUSE IT IS A REACTIVE AND IT'S ONLY UP TO THOSE THAT GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF NOTIFY US, NOTIFYING US IF WE IMPROVE THIS SYSTEM, MAYBE WE'LL SEE, YOU KNOW, THROUGH EDUCATION AND INCREASING THE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THOSE THAT ARE SEEING SIGNS THAT THEY BELIEVE ARE OUT COMPLIANCE AND D S D, WE MIGHT SEE A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN STAFF IS KIND OF PREPARED FOR THAT.
THE, WHAT IS THE INTENT OF AN INSPECTION FEE? WHAT DOES THIS, WHAT DOES THIS DO FOR US? WHAT CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE MECHANICS OF HOW THIS WORKS AND HOW IT IMPROVES LIFE? COLIN, YOU WANT ME TO TAKE THAT ONE? I, I'M HAPPY TO, I MEAN, I THINK THE INTENT REALLY IS MORE OF A PROACTIVE APPROACH.
I, I THINK INITIALLY THIS WAS LOOKING AT CAN WE MAKE IT A PROACTIVE REQUIREMENT THAT WE GO OUT AND WE'RE CHECKING SIGNS AND YOU KNOW, I, I THINK, I DON'T THINK BRINGING THE STRIKE TEAM IS THE RIGHT WORD, BUT IT'S KIND OF THAT THING, LOOK, WE'RE LOOKING FOR BAD ACTORS USING THE STRIKE TEAM TO GO OUT AND FIND THOSE BAD ACTORS INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR SOMEBODY TO SAY, HEY, I SEE SOMEBODY BUILDING WITHOUT PERMITS.
WELL, THAT TYPE OF STUFF, I, I'M THE, THE TERM BAD ACTORS BEEN THROWN AROUND A LOT LATELY.
UM, IN OTHER VENUES, UH, SOMEONE WHO FAILS AN INSPECTION IS NOT A BAD ACTOR.
I MEAN, I THINK WE SHOULD MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR, UM, TO EVERYBODY.
UM, YOU KNOW, NO, NOT COMPLIANCE.
SO SORRY FOR THE SEMANTICS, BUT I JUST NO, BUT NO, YOU'RE RIGHT.
AND THAT, THAT, THAT IS, YOU'RE VALID.
'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, I CAN SEE IT, YOU KNOW, YOU CHANGE YOUR ADVERTISEMENT, SOMETHING'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY WITH THESE KNITS READINGS.
FROM WHAT I'VE LEARNED AS THIS GOES, YOU COULD NOT KNOW THAT YOU'RE OUTTA COMPLIANCE AND YOU JUST MADE A CHANGE IN YOUR ADVERTISEMENT.
NOW, WHILE YOU'RE OUTTA COMPLIANCE, AS SOON AS SOMEBODY LETS YOU KNOW, YOU'RE OUTTA COMPLIANCE, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OH, OKAY, I'M SORRY.
LET ME CHANGE THAT REAL QUICK.
SO THE INTENT IS TO HAVE COMPLIANCE.
SO WHAT, I MEAN, WHAT IS THE MECHANICS OF, OF WHAT THIS, WHAT ARE YOU ENVISIONING AS THE MECHANICS OF THIS PROGRAM? WHAT IS THE FEE? WHAT DOES THE FEE ACCOMPLISH? LIKE IN REALITY, LIKE WHAT'S THE ACTUAL, NOT, NOT THE, YOU KNOW, THE THEORY.
WHAT DOES THE ACTUAL, WHAT DOES THIS DO FOR US? HOW, HOW DOES IT LOOK? I THINK A LOT OF CITIZENS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE MEANS TO MEASURE.
WE, WE, WE SEE A SIGN AS WE'RE DRIVING ALONG THE HIGHWAY THINK WE THINK IT'S TOO BRIGHT, UM, UNSAFE.
AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER, WE DON'T HAVE THE MEANS TO ASSESS THAT.
WE ALSO KNOW THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO, WHEN THEY'RE REPORTED, GO AND ADJUST THEIR SIGN AND WITHIN A WEEK IT'S BACK AT THE ORIGINAL BRIGHTNESS.
THIS WOULD GIVE THE CITY THE MEANS TO GO OUT THERE WITHOUT CONTACTING THEM IN ADVANCE, TEST IT AND DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ONCE A YEAR.
IT, IT'S NOT A LOT, BUT, UH, I THINK IT'S, IT'S WORTH, UM, AS WE INCREASE THE NUMBER OF SIGNS, UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE BOTH ON-PREMISE AND OFF-PREM SIGNS ARE GOING TO INCREASE IN NUMBER.
AND, AND, UM, I THINK THAT WE ARE NOT SEEING THE FULL EFFECT OF THE, OF THE SAFETY ISSUE.
AND AT THIS POINT, IT'S GOING TO INCREASE AND, AND THE RISKS ARE GOING TO INCREASE.
SO I, I, I, I MEAN, I, I FEEL YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE, THE BRIGHTNESS.
I, I GUESS MY POINT IS, UM, LET'S SAY WE FUND A, A ONCE A YEAR INSPECTION AND THE INSPECTOR COMES OUT AND THEY FIX THEIR SIGN.
YOU'VE ALREADY SAID THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA CHANGE THE SIGN JUST CHANGE IT RIGHT BACK.
RIGHT? SO HOW DOES A PROACTIVE INSPECTION, A LIKE, DO ANY, ANYTHING? I, I THINK ANYTIME THAT A VIOLATION IS FOUND, UM, THAT IT WOULD BEHOOVE THE CITY TO GO BACK OUT A COUPLE MORE TIMES TO SEE IF THAT'S HAPPENING.
BECAUSE THAT IS, OH, SOMEONE THAT IS CAUGHT ONE TIME IS A VIOLATOR, NOT NECESSARILY A BAD ACTOR.
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ARE THE ONES THAT ARE REPEATEDLY DOING IT AND CAUSING PROBLEMS FOR OTHERS.AND THIS ALLOWS THEM US TO DEFINE WHICH ONES ARE BAD ACTORS.
SO, CHAIR, I'M SORRY, LET ME QUICK CHAIR.
UH, SO JOE HAD TO STEP OUT FOR A PHONE CALL.
THAT'S, WE WERE BELOW QUORUM AT THIS POINT, SO WE'RE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK PAUSE.
WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE A, DO YOU HAVE TO TAKE A PAUSE OR DO YOU CAN, YOU CAN, CAN YOU THE DISCUSSION AND YOU JUST CAN'T TAKE A VOTE? OH, I'LL LET MY LEGAL AID DEAL
'CAUSE IF JOE NEEDS TO VOTE ON THIS, HE SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE DISCUSSION.
BUT WHAT I CAN DO, UH, WHILE WE'RE LOOKING AT, DON, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT TODAY? I CAN GO AHEAD AND START GETTING THAT UPLOADED.
WELL I WAS GONNA TRY TO KILL SOMETIME WITH THAT.
SO EVERYBODY, SO HERE I WANT TO GIVE AN UPDATE BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN ACTION ITEM ON THE AGENDA WHILE EVERYBODY'S HERE.
UH, THE BILLBOARD GROUP HAS MET LIKE NUMEROUS TIMES AND, UH, WE HAVE COME UP WITH A FRAMEWORK FOR, UH, THAT EVERYBODY SO FAR HAS AGREED TO.
WE WILL SEND THAT OUT BOTH TO THE, THE BILLBOARD WORKING GROUP AND THE SIGN COMMITTEE.
SO YOU HAVE AN IDEA WHEN YOU GET IT, DON'T FREAK OUT.
TO WHERE IT, IT'S MORE CLEAR AS YOU GO THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
BECAUSE THE DRAFT DOCUMENT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON, WE'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, CHANGING A WORD HERE, CHANGING AND IT AFFECTS THINGS UP THE LINE.
SO I WENT THROUGH AND JUST READ ALL MY NOTES, DID IT, PUT IT INTO A LITTLE DIFFERENT FORMAT.
WE'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY, UH, FOR THE WORKING GROUP TO COMMENT BACK IF THEY WANT SOMETHING MODIFIED, BUT I, THERE'S NO CHANGES INTO WHAT THERE, SO IT MAY BE JUST A LITTLE WORDSMITHING TO MAKE IT CLEAR.
WE WILL USE THAT DOCUMENT TO GO OUT TO THE COMMUNITY.
AND THEN AFTER THAT PROCESS AND AFTER, YOU KNOW, WE GET THROUGH WITH THIS PROCESS AND THEY DO THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS, BOTH GROUPS WILL GET BACK TOGETHER, UH, TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, LISTENING TO THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND DO WE WANNA MAKE CHANGES BEFORE IT GOES FORWARD.
JUST A TECHNICAL QUESTION FOR JEREMY.
SO ARE THOSE PUBLIC HEARING DATES? ARE THOSE FIRM? YES MA'AM.
AT WHAT POINT CAN I SHARE THOSE? ANYTIME WITH, WITH OUR ORGANIZ WITH THE SOCIETY.
FEEL FREE MEMBERS FREE TO, TO START GOING AHEAD AND GETTING THAT.
AS SOON AS WE HAVE, WE'VE SENT IT OUT TO ALL COUNCIL DISTRICTS, SO THEY'RE ADDING BACK TO THEIR NEWSLETTERS AND GETTING IT OUT THERE.
UH, I'M NOT SURE WE ARE WHERE WE STAND ON GETTING THE PRINTOUTS.
WE DIDN'T GET AN UPDATE YESTERDAY, SO HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET THE PRINTOUTS SO WE CAN GET THOSE DISTRIBUTED TO THE LIBRARIES, OUR COUNCIL DISTRICTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND JEREMY CAN YOU IS A COURTESY TO EVERYBODY THAT'S BEEN ATTENDING THESE MEETINGS AND ARE ALSO OUR ASSIGNED MEETING, UH, BILLBOARD MEETING.
CAN YOU JUST GO AHEAD AND SEND OUT A CALENDAR INVITE FOR ALL OF THE DATES TO EVERYBODY SO IT'S ON THEIR CALENDARS? PRETTY PLEASE.
I HAVE A FOLLOW UP TO THAT DATE QUESTION.
ARE THE LOCATIONS FOR, WE STILL DON'T HAVE SOMETHING IN THE HILL COUNTRY GATEWAY CORRIDOR.
SO COLLEEN, I'M SORRY, WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION? UM, WE HAD SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED, UH, ONE OF THOSE HEARINGS BE HELD IN THE HILL COUNTRY GATEWAY CORRIDOR GOING OUT I 10.
IT, IT'S REALLY A AREA OF, OF BIG DISCUSSION.
UM, REALLY AFFECTS THE OFF-PREMISE SIGN PEOPLE.
I MEAN THE ON-PREMISE SIGN PEOPLE, UM, AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE WHO TRAVEL THAT CORRIDOR A LOT.
AND I'D LIKE TO SEE ONE OF THOSE HELD SPECIFICALLY IN THAT CORRIDOR ALONG I 10, NOT I GO LIBRARY.
IT'S A GOOD WAYS OFF THAT CORRIDOR.
WELL WHAT WHAT WE DID IS WE LOOKED FOR THE CLOSEST CITY PROPERTY TO HAVE THE MEETING.
THE IGO LIBRARY IS THE CLOSEST ONE AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE DOING IT THERE.
I KNOW I HEARD FROM PROBABLY SOME OF YOU, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, LAST MEETING YOU WANTED AT THE CHURCH OR HILL'S CHURCH.
I DON'T WANNA HAVE A MEETING THERE.
AND THEY HAVE A DIGITAL SIGN AND THERE IS CONFLICT OF INTEREST.
SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO DO IT IN A CITY PROPERTY.
I MEAN, I LIVE IN THAT AREA AND IGO LIBRARY IS NOT TOO
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FAR.THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, THEIR KIDS GO TO BRANDEIS ACROSS FROM IGO LIBRARY.
SO I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S WITHIN THEIR REACH.
I DISAGREE WHEN YOU'RE TALKING GETTING HOME FROM WORK AND GETTING TO A MEETING, UH OH.
YOU NEED TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
WE'LL, WE'LL FIND, WE'LL FIND SOMETHING.
WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL FIND AN AREA.
I, I HAVE A COUPLE IDEAS, BUT IT'S TRICKY 'CAUSE WE ARE LIMITED IN FACILITIES, BUT WE'LL FIND SOMETHING.
WE'LL MEET I AND I AGREE THAT THE CHURCH WITH A DIGITAL SIGN ISN'T THE BEST CHOICE
SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, THEN, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE KIND OF SET ONE OF THOSE FIVE DATES AND TIMES, SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND KEEP THOSE.
UM, I KNOW THERE'S, YOU KNOW, SOME REQUESTS ON HOW WE REACH OUT AND, AND GET SOME COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT.
SO WE'LL PROBABLY TREAT THAT ONE AS KIND OF MORE DEDICATED TO THIS TOPIC SPECIFICALLY.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL, I HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP TOLD TELLING ME HOW TO REACH OUT JUST YET, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'LL FOLLOW IT UP.
BUT YEAH, WE'LL HAPPILY GET THAT RESOLVED SO WE CAN, WE CAN PUT IT OUT THERE JUST SO WITH A PETE, UH, T B D NO, ON THAT LOCATION, I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT ON IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THAT EXTRA ONE IN THE HILL COUNTRY CORRIDOR, THAT WHATEVER NOTICE WENT OUT FOR THE ZONING CHANGE WHEN THEY DID THE ZONING OVERLAY DISTRICT TO BEGIN WITH.
IF IT IS NOT EXORBITANTLY EXPENSIVE, THEY USE THE SAME NOTIFICATION.
DOES ANYONE IN HERE BELONG TO THE DOMINION COUNTRY CLUB? OKAY, SO WE'LL, WE'LL WORK THAT OUT AND YEAH, WE'LL, AND GET BACK TO EVERYBODY.
WE'LL COME BACK AROUND FOR THE BREAK.
CALLING THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER.
UH, SO I THINK LET'S, I APOLOGIZE, I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WORD, WORD.
MIKE HEAD WAS SPEAKING WHEN JOE WALKED OUT.
SO YOU GET TO CONTINUE IF YOU WISH.
IS THERE A MOTION FROM THE COMMITTEE? YES.
UM, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF, UH, THIS FEE BECAUSE THE FEE REVENUE COULD HELP SUPPORT ADDING A STAFF PERSON OR EXPAND THE ABILITY TO INSPECT.
WE HAVE CODE INSPECTORS THAT, UM, VISIT ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND AREAS OF SAN ANTONIO EVERY DAY DURING THE DAY CHECKING FOR CODE VIOLATIONS.
SO WE SHOULD HAVE THAT SAME OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE, UH, CODE INSPECTORS AT NIGHT TO BE ABLE TO CHECK FOR ANY POTENTIAL CODE VIOLATIONS.
IT ONLY WOULD REALLY BE APPARENT IN THE NIGHTTIME HOURS.
SO IF THE FEE REVENUE COULD POSSIBLY, AND I'M NOT EX I'M NOT SAYING IT SHOULD BE A BIG FEE, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT IF THERE WAS THAT, THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HELP SUPPORT ADDITIONAL STAFF.
THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S STOPPING ANY OF THE, UM, STAFF WHO ARE CHARGED WITH ENFORCING CODES FROM, UM, ENFORCING THE SIGN CODE.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT ANOTHER FEE IS, UH, NECESSARILY REQUIRED.
I THINK IT'S UP TO, UH, IT CITY STAFF TO ORGANIZE CO CODE ENFORCEMENT IN A MANNER THAT ALLOWS FOR, UH, UM, SIGNS SPECIFICALLY TO BE, UH, INSPECTED.
DO Y'ALL HAVE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS WORKING AFTER HOURS? UH, NO.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE NORMAL HOURS ARE REGULAR HOURS.
NOW, IF WE HAVE A SPECIFIC CASE THAT WE NEED TO ATTEND TO OR INVESTIGATE, WE DO GET THEM TO WORK OVERTIME, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE STAFF WORKING SO LATE AT NIGHT.
SO IF IT'S A NOISE ORDINANCE THING AND SOMEBODY HAS A METER TO GO LISTEN TO NOISE, THERE'S NOBODY AT NIGHT THAT GOES AND DOES THAT.
I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT EARLIER.
I, I, I HEARD CODE ENFORCEMENT ENFORCES NOISE THREE TIMES IN THIS MEETING.
CODE ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT ENFORCE NOISE ORDINANCE AT ALL.
WE, WE DID IT AS A PILOT PROGRAM, UH, EARLIER THIS YEAR JUST TO TEST IT FOR SIX MONTHS.
BUT WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE TO ENFORCE NOISE ORDINANCE TODAY OR PRIOR TO THE, TO THE PILOT PROGRAM.
AT, AT, AT LEAST FOR NOW UNTIL, YOU KNOW, NEW ORDINANCE COMES OUT POTENTIALLY.
WHAT ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT BARKING DOGS AT NIGHT? THAT'S
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ANIMAL CARE SERVICES AND, AND PD AND THEY WORK AFTER HOURS, CORRECT? THEY DO HAVE TEAM THAT WORKS, UH, AT NIGHT.SO IS THERE A MOTION, BIANCA? SORRY, SORRY, I HAD A COMMENT.
I DON'T AGREE WITH THE VEHICLE TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL.
UM, WHICH I THINK IS IDENTIFYING THE FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE PROACTIVELY LOOKING AT DIGITAL SIGNS FOR COMPLIANCE.
SO I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL FEE.
I THINK THE COST RECOVERY OBVIOUSLY IS IN THE FINES THAT ARE ISSUED, UM, TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS.
BUT IT'S OBVIOUS WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING PROACTIVE GOING ON.
AND AS THE CITY INVESTS IN CORRIDORS, UM, THROUGHOUT OUR CITY AS WE HAVE, UM, UH, CORRIDORS ALL OVER OUR HIGHWAYS AND OVER OUR URBAN CORRIDORS WITHIN THE CITY, UM, THAT THOSE ARE AREAS THAT THE CITY SHOULD START TO FOCUS ON.
AND I WOULD HOPE THAT AN ELEMENT THAT COULD COME OUT OF THIS, INSTEAD OF INITIATING A FEE MIGHT BE A SUGGESTION OR A RECOMMENDATION THAT CITY STAFF ESTABLISH SOME TYPE OF PROACTIVE, UM, VISUAL INSPECTION DOWN SOME OF OUR SIGNIFICANT CORRIDORS.
THE CITY IS SEEKING TO GET MONEY DOWN THE SAN PEDRO CORRIDOR, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE SEEKING TO DO THINGS, WE WANNA ENSURE THAT EVERYONE IS IN COMPLIANCE AND THAT WE'RE ALL WORKING TOWARDS THE COMMON GOOD AND THAT IT'S NOT HAVING AN ADVERSE IMPACT ON ANYBODY.
AND SO I THINK MAYBE INSTEAD OF AN AGENDA ITEM INSTEAD OF AN A, A CHANGE THAT WE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US RECOMMEND THAT THERE BE A PROACTIVE INSPECTION, UH, ALONG SOME OF OUR MAJOR CORRIDORS THAT ARE IDENTIFIED AND ARE CODIFIED BY THEIR ACTION.
UM, MOST RECENTLY THE BANDERA ROAD CORRIDOR WAS TAKEN, UH, ACTION BY COUNCIL JUST EARLIER THIS MONTH.
SO IN SUPPORTIVE OF THAT EFFORT, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE, I THINK WE'VE ALL BEAT THIS TO THE BONE THAT THERE'S NO PROACTIVE, IT'S ALL REACTIVE.
AND TO YOUR POINT, WHEN PEOPLE REPORT IT HAS TO BE DONE IN THE EVENING BECAUSE IT'S, YOU DON'T SEE THE VIOLATION DURING THE DAY.
AND SO IT IS, UM, ARDUOUS I THINK TO GET A REPORTING DONE BY A COMMON CITIZEN.
UM, SO I THINK TAKING ALL THIS FEEDBACK BACK, UH, WOULD BE BENEFICIAL.
I I WOULD SUGGEST MAYBE A RECOMMENDATION FROM OUR COMMITTEE INSTEAD.
AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO WITHDRAW MY AMENDMENT IN SUPPORT OF THAT SORT OF RECOMMENDATION THAT, THAT THE CITY DEVELOP A PROACTIVE, REALISTIC PROGRAM.
UM, BECAUSE THE POLICE DOING IT CLEARLY, JUST LIKE NOISE ISN'T A SOLUTION.
THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE BIGGER FISH TO FRY.
SO I WOULD SUPPORT, WELL, A DEVELOPMENT OF A PROACTIVE PROGRAM.
AND, AND I, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS, IS THIS IS A RESOURCE ISSUE.
SO, SO TOMORROW YOU COULD HAVE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS WORKING IN THE EVENING, GOING OUT AND RUNNING DOWN SIGNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO NECESSARILY BE A SIGN INSPECTOR TO BE ABLE TO BE TAUGHT HOW TO USE THE METER.
DON'T YOU HAVE TO BE A SIGN INSPECTOR FOR REGISTERING VIOLATION? BUT, BUT I, I WOULD WE'LL WE WILL ADD THAT JEREMY, IF YOU WILL, TO THE LIST TO DISCUSS.
SO WE WILL PUT THAT ON THE LIST.
UH, SO IF WE CAN GET A MOTION EITHER UP OR DOWN TO RECOMMEND THIS OR NOT.
SO REAL QUICK, SO LET MEM CAN I JUMP IN QUICK? UM, SO I TOTALLY AGREE WITH BIANCA.
I THINK THIS IS REALLY NOT A CODE ISSUE, IT'S REALLY POLICY ISSUE.
SO WE CAN INTERNALLY LOOK AT THIS AND COME UP WITH A PROACTIVE, UH, POLICY THAT WE CAN PROACTIVELY INSPECT CERTAIN CORRIDORS IF NEEDED.
UM, I MEAN, WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND LOOK AT THE RESOURCES AND FIGURE THAT OUT.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S A CODE CHANGE.
WELL, THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
I MEAN IT'S JUST SOMETHING, AND IT'S NOT A, YOU KNOW, WE AS A CITY, THEY JUST NEED TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANT TO ALLOCATE THE RESOURCES OR REALLOCATE RESOURCES TO COVER THAT.
SO CAN WE IMAGINE, AND AS FAR AS REAL QUICK THOUGH, INSTEAD OF ADDING A NEW ITEM TO THIS, AND JUST TO LET ME KNOW IF I'M WRONG, MY THOUGHT WOULD BE THAT THE RESPONSE TO THIS PROPOSED AMENDMENT IS THAT RECOMMENDATION.
Y'ALL JUST PROVIDE THAT RECOMMENDATION THAT WE STAFF LOOK AT SOME, YOU KNOW, POLICY CHANGES OF TRYING TO BE MORE PROACTIVE AND THEN ALLOW STAFF TO KIND OF LOOK AT WHAT THAT IS AND, YOU KNOW, TAKING THE, THE COMMUNITY INPUT FROM WHAT THIS IS AND, AND FIND WAYS THAT WE CAN BE MORE PROACTIVE APPROACH.
SO ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT I AMEND MY PROPOSED AMENDMENT? NO, THE, THE MOTION, I MEAN THAT'S, I'M JUST ASKING SO THAT TO BASICALLY, SO THIS COMMITTEE IS COMING FORTH WITH A RECOMMENDATION.
SO WHAT I WOULD, THAT WE FIND A PROACTIVE WAY TO DO IT
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TO BE DETER DETERMINED IN THE FUTURE.SO RATHER THAN, RATHER THAN ACT QUICKLY ON THIS, I WANT TO PUT IT AT, ON THE LIST, GIVE STAFF AN OPPORTUNITY TO THINK ABOUT IT, TO COME UP WITH WHAT THAT RECOMMENDATION MIGHT LOOK LIKE, BRING IT BACK TO US, AND THEN WE CAN MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION RATHER THAN MAKING A BLANKET RECOMMENDATION THAT NONE OF US HAVE A CLUE WHAT THAT INCLUDES.
AND SO IT'S YOUR IDEA OF MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION IS OFFICIALLY ON THE LIST WILL, WE CAN EITHER ACT ON IT AT OUR NEXT MEETING OR WAIT TO ACT ON IT IN OUR LAST MEETING RIGHT BEFORE THIS THING MOVES FORWARD.
SO IT'S NOT BEING BLOWN OFF, BUT I, I'M NOT PREPARED TO SAY WE RECOMMEND A PROACTIVE INSPECTION PROGRAM AND NONE OF US KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
AND SO IF AS A VOTING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE, IF I'M ASKED TO TAKE A VOTE ON RECOMMENDING A PROACTIVE INSPECTION, MY VOTE RIGHT NOW WOULD BE NO.
WELL, LET'S JUST TABLED IT THEN.
INSTEAD OF ADDING IN AS A NEW ITEM.
SO WE AREN'T GOING WELL, NO, I, I I I THINK WE CAN AMEND THIS ONE TO MEET THE INTENT BECAUSE THE INTENT OF IT IS TO TRY TO FIND A PROACTIVE APPROACH.
BUT I WANT TO JUST CLARIFY WHAT THEY ARE.
SO IF YOU'LL JUST HUMOR ME AND ADD IT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.
SO WE, WE ARE NARROWING DOWN WHAT WE'RE
COULD YOU DEFINE THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST? THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST TODAY OR AT A FUTURE DATE? NO, BOTTOM OF THE LIST AT A FUTURE DATE.
SO WE HAVE STILL OUTSTANDING ISSUES WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TALK ABOUT AND YOU KNOW, SO IT'S NOT GETTING BLOWN OFF, BUT YEAH.
SO CAN I GET A MOTION TO ACT ON THIS MOTION TO NOT APPROVE THIS AS PRESENTED TODAY AND WOULD BE ADJUSTED FOR A LATER DATE? THANK YOU.
SECOND THIS ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
ALRIGHT, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M, I'M ALL FOR
SO REAL QUICK JUST TO SUMMARIZE, WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO IS, IS STAFF AT THE, AT THE NEXT P C D, OR I'M SORRY, AT THE NEXT, UH, SECO COMMITTEE STAFF WILL PRESENT SOME FORM OF A PROACTIVE APPROACH IF WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD WORK WITHIN OUR CURRENT STAFFING ABILITY, UH, AND OUR CURRENT, UH, FEE SYSTEM AND SEE WHAT, WHAT THE COMMITTEE THINKS OF THAT, UH, AS SOME TYPE OF APPROACH.
I APPRECIATE ALL THE EXTRA WORK I'M ASKING FOR
WELCOME YOU, YOU'RE NOW IN MY WORLD.
NOW MOVING BACK TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM 13 DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO AMEND MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 28 TO UPDATE THE CODE TO REFLECT CURRENT NIGHT SKY FRIENDLY LIGHTING STANDARDS AND MAXIMUM VALUES AS RECOMMENDED BY THE INTERNATIONAL SKY DARK SKY ASSOCIATION, THE ILLUMINATING ENGINEERING SOCIETY, AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON ILLUMINATION.
I'LL STEP OVER TO THE COMPUTER, I CAN PULL UP THE, UH, PROPOSED CHANGES.
UM, ALSO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT HERE, DON DAVIES, UH, TO DISCUSS THAT.
AND, UH, THE CHAIRS ALSO ASK ME TO, I CAN PULL UP A SCREENSHOT OF WHAT THE M L E M L O D OVERLAY FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS CURRENTLY.
UH, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID EARLIER, UH, INHERENTLY THIS IS A LOT OF SIMILARITIES OF TRYING TO BRING THE CHAPTER 28 TO WHATEVER'S ALREADY REQUIRED, UH, WITHIN THE M L O D, UNDER THE NEW U D C REQUIREMENTS.
CAN I, CAN I ASK A QUESTION WHILE, WHILE YOU'RE GETTING THAT UP AND, AND THIS WOULD BE A MIC OR A MEAN QUESTION PROBABLY.
WHY DID THE, UH, U D C NOT MAKE THOSE REQUIREMENTS JUST CITYWIDE VERSUS BESIDES STARK SKY YEAH.
SO, SO IF IT COVERS, YOU KNOW, 70% OF THE CITY IS IN THE MILITARY OVERLAY DISTRICT OR WHATEVER IT IS, WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST GO AHEAD AND SAY EVERYTHING? WAS THERE SOME DISCUSSION OF THAT? IS THAT AN ACCURATE NUMBER? IS IT, IS IT 70% OF THE CITY IS COVERED BY, WELL, I'LL JUST START.
SO, UM, SO REMEMBER THE MILITARY PROTECTION PROGRAMS THAT THE CITY HAS BEEN WORKING ON SINCE REALLY THE 2005 BRACK IN 2007 AND OH EIGHT, THE CITY, UM, APPROVED A LIST OF
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INITIATIVES BY MAYOR AND COUNCIL TO LOOK AT ORDINANCES THAT WILL HELP PROTECT THE MISSION AROUND, UH, SAN ANTONIO, UH, THE MILITARY INSTALLATIONS.AND MOST OF THOSE HAVE TO BE, UH, TIED INTO, UH, THE J L STUDIES THAT HAPPEN.
AND ONE OF THEM WAS MILITARY LIGHTING OR MILITARY, UH, DEVELOPMENT AROUND THE MILITARY INSTALLATIONS AND THE LIGHTING AND THE IMPACT AND ALL THAT.
SO WE STARTED, OF COURSE, ON THE NORTH SIDE WITH CAMP BULLIS.
UH, THEN WE CERTAINLY, UH, WENT TO THE OTHER INSTALLATIONS RECENTLY AS THEY WERE UPDATED.
SO IT'S REALLY INTENDED, THE CITY SO FAR HAS JUST INTENDED IT TO BE A MILITARY PROTECTION.
HOWEVER, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT QUOTE UNQUOTE DARK SKY ISSUES FOR THE GOOD OF THE WHOLE CITY.
UH, AND THEN CERTAINLY THAT'S BEING DISCUSSED AND DEBATED THROUGH SOME OF THE U D C AMENDMENTS THAT WERE JUST RECENTLY PASSED.
THERE WAS SOME, ACTUALLY SOME LANGUAGE THAT WAS PASSED FOR LIGHTING AROUND THE CITY.
UM, BUT IT, WE, WE HAVEN'T, IT HASN'T BEEN A COMPLETE DARK SKY YET.
UM, AND I THINK THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE DEBATED, UM, BY THE AMERICAN COUNCIL, BUT THE REASON WHY WE'VE FOCUSED ON MILITARY BECAUSE IT'S IN LINE WITH THE MILITARY PROTECTION INITIATIVES THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING FOR THE LAST 15 OR 17 YEARS.
SO, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ANSWER.
SOMEONE CAN ASK THE QUESTION, CERTAINLY.
WELL, IF 70% OF THE CITY IS COVERED, WHY DON'T YOU JUST WELL, IT'S NOT, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ABOUT 50.
SO WHATEVER THE PERCENTAGE IS, BUT THERE'S A GOOD, GOOD PORTION OF THE CITY THAT'S COVERED THROUGH THESE, UH, QUOTE UNQUOTE DOWNWARD LIGHTING DARK SKY REGULATIONS.
AND, AND MOST OF IT APPEARS TO BE, YOU KNOW, IN THE URBAN THAT'S NOT COVERED IS THE URBAN AREAS AND THEN THE FRINGES BETWEEN THE, THE DISTRICTS.
SO AS I SAID IT AT, WHEN WE INITIALLY BEGAN THIS CONVERSATION, THE M L O D STANDARDS ARE, HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND BY ALL OUR PARKS ALSO.
AND ALSO OUR LINEAR, UH, CREEK TRAILS ALSO ARE ALL DARK SKIES.
SO WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT THE EMERALD NECKLACE THROUGHOUT OUR CITY, YOU START TALKING ABOUT THE PARKLAND THAT WE HAVE THAT'S NOT ON THAT MAP, THAT'S ALSO IN THE M L O D ALSO ALL THE 1300 LANDMARKS, UM, AND THE 30 HISTORIC DISTRICTS, THOSE ARE NOT LIT UP ON THAT MAP RIGHT THERE.
WHAT'S LIT UP IS THE M POD, WHICH IS THE MISSION PROTECTION OVERLAY DISTRICT.
UM, BUT ONCE YOU START ADDING ALL THOSE ON, IT SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASES THE AREA.
I MEAN, I THINK THE CITY HAS ADOPTED THAT AS THEIR STANDARD AS WE SEE IT THROUGH ALL THE TRAILWAYS AND THROUGH THE PARKS, UH, AS THEY'RE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, AS WE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE BASELINE IS, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE, WE IDENTIFY THAT BECAUSE THAT IS PART OF OUR BASELINE, WHICH IS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE AREA ON THAT MAP.
AND THEN MY NEXT QUESTION, UH, IS ON THE ELECTRICAL CODE THAT WE JUST ADOPTED, IF YOU'RE NOT WITHIN THE OVERLAY DISTRICTS, THE DARK SKY RULES FOR HOW THE LIGHTING POINTS AND ALL THAT DON'T APPLY, CORRECT? THAT THAT IS CORRECT.
SO, UH, YOU GET A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO MAKE YOUR PITCH.
WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE PRESENTING ON THIS THAT SEEM TO HAVE BEEN AN AREA OF QUESTION THAT I WANTED TO CLARIFY WAS THAT KELVIN TEMPERATURE IS NOT A DEFINITION OF BRIGHTNESS.
SO I THINK LAST TIME WE MET THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT DECREASING THE TEMPERATURE WOULD REQUIRE THE ADDITION OF FURTHER LIGHTING.
SO KELVIN TEMPERATURE AND OR LUX OR KNITS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANIMALS.
SO WE ARE JUST PROPOSING THE DECREASE OF THE COLOR TEMPERATURE ITSELF THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY DENOTE THE REQUIREMENTS TO THEN THUS DECREASE OR INCREASE THE BRIGHTNESS.
SO ONE OF THE THINGS I WANNA ADDRESS WITH THAT, ESPECIALLY IN THE REALM OF SIGNAGE AND ADVERTISING, I KNOW FOR ME PERSONALLY, AND I'M I'M SURE PROBABLY FOR A LOT OF FOLKS HERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD AND LOOKING AT SIGNAGE ADVERTISING, I AM IMMEDIATELY TURNED AWAY FROM ANY BRIGHT WHITE LIGHTING, ANY BRIGHT WHITE THAT HAS THAT BLUE EMISSION SIGNAGE.
SO ONE OF THE BENEFITS HERE OF DECREASING THAT TEMPERATURE, THE WARMER LIGHTING, IS A MUCH MORE APPEALING AND INTRIGUING SIGNAGE.
SO WHILE I STILL CAN'T GIVE YOU A DEFINITIVE ANSWER OF WHAT THE EXACT PERCENTAGE, UM, YOU KNOW, DECREASE IN LIGHT POLLUTION IS GOING TO BE, I HAVE IT ON MANY ACCOUNTS AND AUTHORITIES THAT ANY BIT HELPS.
NOW, FROM AN ENERGY STANDPOINT, I'M NOT SURE IF THIS WAS BROUGHT UP THE LAST TIME IT PRESENTED, BUT GLOBALLY, YOU KNOW, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE A LIGHT POLLUTION ISSUE IN THE UNITED STATES ALONE, WE'RE SPENDING $3.3 BILLION A YEAR THAT'S BEING WASTED ON UPLIGHT.
THAT'S NOT SHINING TO YOUR ADVERTISERS, THAT'S
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NOT SHINING ON THE GROUND, THAT'S JUST GOING UP IN THE LIGHT NIGHT.AND TEXAS DOES ABOUT $490 MILLION BASED ON POPULATION AND GLOBAL AND, UM, GENERAL DENSITY POPULATION DENSITY.
THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS WASTING ABOUT $19.6 MILLION AND ELECTRICITY IN LIGHTING OF ALL KIND EXTERIOR THAT IS SHINING UPWARD.
SO THIS IS GOING TO BE A FINANCIAL SAVINGS FOR THE CITY.
IT'S GONNA BE FINANCIAL SAVINGS FOR BUSINESS OWNERS, FOR RESIDENTIAL OWNERS, FOR, YOU KNOW, ANY KIND OF BUSINESS OWNER THAT HAS EXTERIOR LIGHTING.
IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, IN LINE WITH THE TEXAS STATE LAW, UM, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE TWO 40.031, UM, WHICH IS SPECIFIC TO ANY CITY WITH FIVE OR MORE MILITARY BASES AND A POPULATION OF MORE THAN 1 MILLION PEOPLE.
UM, YOU KNOW, L E D OR I'M SORRY, L E E D, THE, THE LEAD.
YOU KNOW, THEY LOOK AT THIS AS WELL AS BEING BENEFICIAL IN ANY CAPACITY.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ANSI CODES, THEIR ASHRAY CODES, I E SS N A CODES AND STANDARDS THAT ALL COMPLY AND FOLLOW AND ADVISE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS JUST NOT ONLY BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PASSED BY THE CITY, UM, BACK IN NOVEMBER FOR THE U D C, FOR THE MILITARY LIGHTING OVERLAY DISTRICT, UM, BUT ALSO FOR THE BENEFIT OF, YOU KNOW, AS MS. MALONA WAS MENTIONING, THE HISTORIC LANDMARKS, THE PARKS, THE TRAILWAYS, THE FACILITIES AND LOCATIONS AND NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ALREADY COMPLY TO THIS, WHICH DOES EQUAL TO WELL OVER 60% OF THE CITY.
UM, THE ONLY REASON WHY THIS HASN'T SPREAD ACROSS THE CITY IS BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GONE INTO THAT PORTION OF THE, THE LIGHTING CODE YET.
SO WE'RE WORKING ON THIS ONE STEP AT A TIME, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT EVENTUALLY THIS CITY WILL BE MADE DARK
NO, IT'LL, I MEAN WE HAVE TO HAVE REALITY.
OKAY, WHEN I SAY DARK, I DON'T MEAN TURNING OUT ALL THE LIGHTS.
I MEAN HAVING PROPER LIGHTING, HAVING, EXCUSE ME, HAVING PROPER LIGHTING THAT'S PROPERLY SHIELDED, THE PROPER TEMPERATURE, THE PROPER DIRECTION.
THIS MAKES IT SAFE FOR EVERYONE.
IT MAKES IT HEALTHIER FOR EVERYONE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU'RE HUMAN OR WILDLIFE OR NATURE.
SO WHEN I SAY MAKING IT DARK, I MEAN JUST MAKING IT SHOW THAT WE CAN APPRECIATE THE NIGHT SKY AND THE BENEFITS THAT COME FROM THAT.
BUT I'M NOT SAYING TO BLANKET THE CITY IN DARKNESS, THERE'S A DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN HAVING PROPER NIGHT SKY PRESERVATION LIGHTING AND NOT CAN, CAN YOU GIMME AN EXAMPLE OF THIS? YOU WERE SAYING $19 MILLION THAT THE CITY IS WASTING EVERY YEAR ON LIGHTING THAT'S GOING TO THE SKY THAT'S DOING NOTHING.
CAN YOU GIMME AN EXAMPLE OF LIKE ONE, WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY ONE EXAMPLE.
ONE EXAMPLE OF THE LIGHT THAT GOES UP TO THE SKY THAT'S DOING NOTHING.
SO ANY SIGNAGE THAT PROTRUDES ABOVE THE HORIZON.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT A GLOBE LIGHT IN A NEIGHBORHOOD OR IF A BUSINESS HAS A LIGHT THAT'S SHINING UPWARDS, THAT LIGHT IS NOT SHINING AT A PERSON OR AT THE GROUND OR AT A BUILDING, IT IS SHINING UP INTO THE SKY, NOT REFLECTING OFF OF ANYTHING.
BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE THE, WE'RE DEALING SPECIFIC, BUT NO, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE EXTERIOR SIGNAGE LIGHTS DO DO THIS, BILLBOARD LIGHTS DO THIS.
I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT DOESN'T APPLY TO ANYTHING THAT IS EXISTING.
SO THIS IS ONLY NEW AND THERE'S NO MORE NEW BILLBOARDS THAT ARE EVER GONNA BE PUT UP IN SAN ANTONIO OTHER THAN CONVERSIONS.
AND THOSE WILL BE DIGITAL SIGNS FROM THE, UH, UPLIFT SIGNS.
SO ACTUALLY, AND THEY ARE, THEY ARE, THE BILLBOARD COMMITTEE IS RECOMMENDING THAT THEY COMPLY WITH THE DARK SKY RULES.
I BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT THAT MO WHATEVER IT IS, YOU KNOW, AN ISSUE IS.
SO I, I MEAN I JUST, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH LIGHTS ON BUILDINGS.
ALL WE'RE DEALING WITH LIGHTS ON SIGNS.
WHAT WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT THE LIGHT, BUT IF THE SIGNAGE IS ON THE BUILDING NO, NO, I, I, I UNDERSTAND.
SO, SO IF YOU ARE, I'D HAVE NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER SUPPORTING SOMETHING THAT SAYS ALL SIGNS HAVE TO BE DOWN LIT.
BUT TO APPLY RULES ACROSS THE CITY, I, I PERSONALLY I CAN'T, BUT MANY OF THESE BILLBOARDS THAT I'VE SEEN HAVE LIGHTS THAT SHINE UP AT THE, AT THE SIGN.
BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING OF THIS.
THIS IS NOT DEALING WITH BILLBOARDS.
THIS IS DEALING WITH BASICALLY ON-PREMISE SIGNS.
BECAUSE THE BILL, THERE IS NO, BUT THERE IS NO NEW BILLBOARDS.
SO THERE'S NO, IT'S, IT'S ALL SIGNAGE, SO IT APPLIES.
BUT IT REALITY, ALL WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS ON-PREMISE SIGNS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO NEW BILLBOARDS, AND THIS DOES, THIS RULE DOES NOT APPLY TO EXISTING SIGNS.
ANY BILLBOARDS THAT ARE GOING TO BE CONVERTED ARE GOING TO BE CONVERTED TO DIGITAL,
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WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE, THEY'RE COMPLYING WITH THE DARK SKY RULES AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE BILLBOARD IS COVERED UNDER MAINTENANCE, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY'RE GONNA RE BE REPLACING THE FIXTURES WITH EXACTLY WHAT THEY HAVE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THERE'S NO PERMIT REQUIRED.DO WE NOT STILL ALLOW A TAKE DOWN OF TWO BILLBOARDS TO PUT UP A NEW ONE? AND WOULD IT NOT BECOME IMPORTANT AT THAT TIME THAT THERE'S NOT UPLIGHTING ON THAT, THAT THAT FOLLOWED? SAY THAT AGAIN? RELOCATION, TIM.
IT IT'S THE RELOCATION OF OF AN EXISTING BILLBOARD.
IT, IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL, YOU WANT THE NEW, THE, THE RELOCATED BILLBOARDS TO COMPLY WITH DARK SKY, IN MY OPINION, RATHER THAN HAVING THE LIGHTS THAT SHINE IN.
BUT MY GUESS IS IN TALKING OVER THE, BECOMING AN EXPERT IN BILLBOARDS OVER THE LAST, OR A QUASI EXPERT, THAT ALL OF THOSE TAKEDOWNS THAT THEY'RE DOING ARE GOING TO BE TAKEDOWNS TO BE ABLE TO PUT UP DIGITAL SITES.
SO TIM, THIS IS A QUESTION, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR SOMEONE WHO MAKES BILLBOARDS AND USES THEM AND SELLS 'EM.
IF YOU UPLIGHT A BILLBOARD, DO YOU POINT THE LIGHT IN THE SKY OR DO YOU POINT THE LIGHT AT THE SIGN? WELL, IT'S A COMPLICATED ANSWER AND THANK YOU FOR OPENING THE DOOR FOR ME.
UM, WE HAVE, I THINK AT THE CURRENT INVENTORY LEVEL, 88% OF THE BILLBOARDS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
AND ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO AT OUR OWN COST, WE CHANGED OUT EVERY OUTLET BOARD IN THE CITY FROM A THREE OR FOUR LUMINAIRE SYSTEM TO A THREE LUMINAIRE SYSTEM THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY CREATED TO BE MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT AND ALSO TO, TO FOCUS THE LIGHT MUCH MORE ONTO THE SIGN FACE, MUCH LESS SIGN SPILLS.
I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR ANYBODY ELSE.
SO, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, OF COURSE, YES.
WE TRY TO ANGLE, WE WANNA LIT LIGHT THE BOARD.
WE HAVE NO INTEREST IN SPILLAGE.
IF WE COULD STOP IT COMPLETELY FROM THE, THE, THE, THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEMS WITH UP WITH DOWN LIGHTING THAT COME TO US, UH, WHEN IT'S RECOMMENDED.
UH, AND I GUESS I'M STARTING TO TAKE A LITTLE UMBRAGE WITH, YOU KNOW, AS HARD AS WE TRY IN THIS COMMUNITY TO DO IT RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT BAD ACTORS.
WELL, I'M, I PUT THE WHITE HAT ON.
I'D BE HAPPY TO CHANGE EVERY SIGN I GOT INTO DIGITALS.
IF YOU GUYS WANT TO, WE'LL SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
BUT I'M JUST SAYING, YOUR PROBLEM AIN'T THE BILLBOARDS, THE, THE, FROM CLEAR CHANNEL'S POINT OF VIEW, IT DON'T GET NO BETTER THAN WHAT WE ARE DOING IN THE REALITY, LIKE YOU'RE SAYING OF ALL THE EXISTING BILLBOARDS ARE NOT GONNA BE TOO MANY NEW ONES.
I WOULD SUGGEST BROADENING YOUR SCOPE A LITTLE BIT FROM THE BILLBOARDS, AND I'M SAYING BILLBOARDS, YOU KNOW, UH, NOT ON PREMISE.
I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR THOSE GUYS.
I WOULD SUGGEST YOU, YOU BROADEN YOUR SCOPE A LITTLE BIT FROM TALKING ABOUT THE BILLBOARD.
'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE'RE THE PROBLEM THAT WE ARE PERCEIVED TO BE.
AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE REALLY INTENDED TO POINT THE FINGER AT BILLBOARDS.
I WAS JUST SAYING THAT THIS INCLUDED BILLBOARDS.
IT WOULD, IT WOULD INCLUDE BILLBOARDS.
BUT WHAT I, WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS IT'S, MOST OF IT IS ON-PREMISE SIGN BECAUSE THERE'S NO NEW ONES.
YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE MAY BE ONE NEW BILLBOARD, A HOW MANY BILLBOARDS WERE ADDED IN THE LAST THREE YEARS? BRAND NEW SIGN STRUCTURES THAT WENT UP.
DO ANY, YEAH, SO I, IT IT'S, YOU'RE REALLY DEALING WITH ON-PREMISE SIGNS.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, IS THERE A FEELING TO GET THE DISCUSSION GOING FROM THE COMMITTEE BEFORE WE GO INTO DISCUSSION, A MOTION EITHER WAY, AND THEN WE'LL HAVE DISCUSSION ON WHETHER WE SHOULD ADOPT IT OR NOT.
THEY'RE ASKING TO THAT, THAT BASICALLY THE SIMILAR RULES TO THE MIL MILITARY OVERLAY DISTRICTS AS TO SIGNAGE BE APPLIED IN 100% OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, RATHER THAN JUST IN THE MILITARY OVER
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LATE TO EXISTING OR TO NEW, TO BRAND NEW.I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S EXISTING, IT EXISTS.
I JUST HAVE A REAL SIMPLE QUESTION.
WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT TO UPDATE TO, TO THE STATEMENT CODE TO REFLECT CURRENT NIGHT SKY FRIENDLY LIGHTING STANDARDS AND MAXIMUM VALUE? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH IT COSTS? I DON'T BECAUSE I WASN'T ASKED TO FIGURE THAT OUT.
BUT BUT HOW MUCH, AND MY, MY SECOND PART OF THAT IS HOW BIG IS THE DIFFERENCE? NO, NO.
IS IT REALLY RE MORE RESTRICTIVE? AND I GUESS THIS IS POINTED TO YOU 'CAUSE YOU'RE THE PROFESSIONAL HERE ON THAT.
HOW RESTRICTIVE IS IT IN COMPARISON TO WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS NOW? HOW MUCH OF THE UPDATE OF THAT CODE TO REFLECT THE CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS, WHAT IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE ON THAT? I MEAN, OVERALL WE'RE IN, IN ANY CITY WHERE WE'RE MAKING CHANGES TO LIGHTING ORDINANCE, WHETHER IT'S STREET LIGHTING THAT P E C IS INSTALLING OR WHAT C P S IS DOING TO COMPLY WITH THE M L O D, I MEAN, WE'RE LOOKING AT NEW TECHNOLOGY, WE'RE LOOKING AT MORE ACCESSIBLE IN MANY WAYS, MORE COST EFFECTIVE, REQUIRING LESS MAINTENANCE.
I MEAN TO, TO ME AND TO THE FOLKS THAT WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY AND THE FOLKS THAT RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, VOTED ACROSS THE DIFFERENT COMMITTEES FOR THE U D C, IT'S A NO-BRAINER.
WHY WOULD YOU KEEP WITH THE, THE STANDARD LOWER QUALITY LIGHTING? UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO NEW INSTALLATIONS, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO GO WITH THE NEWEST TECHNOLOGY THAT WHICH IS PROGRAMMABLE FROM YOUR PHONES OR YOUR COMPUTERS.
THAT WHICH YOU KNOW, IS BENEFICIAL TO ALL.
AS I'VE SAID, YOU KNOW, ANY IMPROVEMENT IN LIGHTING IS A BENEFIT.
I CAN'T SEE WHY ANYONE WOULD CHOOSE TO NOT USE SOMETHING THAT'S BENEFICIAL.
AND THAT, THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT I HAD IN ONE OF SOME OF OUR FIRST MEETINGS, AND I THINK IT WAS WITH YOU I ABOUT BEING ABLE TO MONITOR AND CHANGE YOUR LIGHTING, UH, WITH THE NEW TECHNOLOGY FROM YOUR PHONE OR FROM YOUR TABLET.
MAYBE Y'ALL DON'T REMEMBER THAT CONVERSATION, BUT IT, IN MY OPINION, IT WAS WOW, IF YOU COULD DO THAT, NOT HAVE TO SEND A GUY OUT TO CLIMB A POLE TO FIX IT, HOW WONDERFUL THAT WOULD BE.
THAT ONLY, THAT ONLY APPLIES TO, I UNDERSTAND, AND THIS IS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION ONLY.
I UNDERSTAND THESE GUYS RIGHT NOW, UNDERSTAND, WHAT I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO YOU IS THE ONLY SIGN THAT WOULD APPLY TO IS A DIGITAL, WHAT I CALL READER BOARD THAT HAS, THAT IS RECEIVING ITS MESSAGE BY CELLULAR.
OKAY? WHICH, WHICH MOST OF THE NEWS SIGNS, THAT'S HOW THEY'RE DOING IT.
BUT IT WOULD NOT, THERE'S NOT ONE SIGN IN TOWN THAT IS A, WHAT I CALL A STATIC ON-PREMISE SIGN THAT HAS A CONTROL THAT YOU CAN GO HERE AND SAY, I WANT MAKE THE LIGHT BRIGHTER OR LESS BRIGHT.
SO THERE IS TECHNOLOGY FOR THAT THOUGH, BY THE WAY, JUST A STATIC LIGHT.
AND YOU KNOW THAT FOR A FACT THAT THERE'S CAN DO A SINGLE SIGN.
YOU CAN DO THAT IN THE ENTIRE CITY THERE.
DIGITAL REGULAR SIGN HERE, GARY, YOU MAY, YEAH, I HOW MANY PROPERTIES DO YOU MAKE YOUR COMPANY? I DON'T THINK THAT THAT A TYPICAL ILLUMINATED BACKLIT SIGN THAT YOU SEE ON A STOREFRONT, UM, HAS THE ABILITY TO HAVE THE, UH, THE BRIGHTNESS ADJUSTED.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT SAYING WELL, THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
DIGITAL BILLBOARDS, BECAUSE OF THEIR NATURE RECEIVE THEIR MESSAGING.
NOW, ANY NEW SIGN HAS A LITTLE THING ON IT, AND IT BASICALLY, YOU GO ONTO A COMPUTER, IT SENDS A CELLULAR SIGNAL TO THE SIGN, IT CHANGES THAT THAT TECHNOLOGY EXISTS.
AND IT'S PRETTY MUCH EVERY SIGN, EVERY DIGITAL SIGN THAT IS MADE HAS THAT CAPABILITY.
BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BILLBOARDS AND OTHER SIGNS.
ANY BACKLIT SIGN THAT IS EITHER ON A SIGN POLE OR, OR ON A BUILDING, IT'S EITHER THE SIGN'S ON, THE SIGN'S OFF.
I WOULD VENTURE TO SAY THAT 100% OF ALL THOSE SIGNS THAT ARE BEING INSTALLED RIGHT NOW ARE LIT BY L E D BULBS.
AND, AND BECAUSE THERE, THERE'S NOBODY THAT'S PUTTING FLUORESCENT LIGHTS ANYMORE IN, YOU KNOW, BACKLIT SIGNS.
AND WHEN YOU HAVE A BALLAST THAT GOES OUT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I'LL ASK GARY THIS QUESTION.
WHEN YOU, YOU MANAGE A LOT OF PROPERTY WHEN YOU HAVE A SIGN, A BACKLIT SIGN WHERE THE BALLAST GOES OUT OR SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE MESSED WITH INSIDE THE ELECTRONICS OF THE, OF THE BACKLIT SIGN.
ARE Y'ALL USING L E D FOR THE REPLACEMENT? YEAH, I MEAN IT'S L E D LIGHTS AND THERE'S NO WAY TO ADJUST THE, UH, THE BRIGHTNESS.
BUT WE'RE NOT TALKING BRIGHTNESS.
[01:05:01]
I'M NOT TALKING BRIGHTNESS.NO, I'M TALKING COLOR TEMPERATURE.
THOSE ARE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
BUT MOST, MOST OF THE L E D IS NOT, IS THAT COLORED LIGHT TOO? YES, ABSOLUTELY.
L E D COMES IN EVERY LIGHTING COLOR SPECTRUM.
SO, SO WHEN, WHEN EVERY TIME WE REPLACE THE BULBS, OR WELL, IF I REPLACE OUT THE INTERIOR CAN OF THE SIGN WITH L E D, DOES THAT, IS THAT MAINTENANCE OR DOES THAT REQUIRE A PERMIT? NO, IT'S MAINTENANCE.
MAINTENANCE THAT'S UNDER GENERAL MAINTENANCE.
SO ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW IS, SO IT WOULDN'T APPLY TO ANYTHING THAT'S UP.
ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS BRAND NEW SIGNS.
I MEAN, THE SAME THING HAPPENED TO NEIGHBORHOODS WHEN THE M L O D WAS EXPANDED.
IT DIDN'T TELL THESE NEIGHBORS THAT THEY HAD TO GO REPLACE ALL OF THEIR LIGHTING AND IT DIDN'T TELL 'EM THEY COULDN'T PUT CHRISTMAS LIGHTS UP.
IT TOLD THEM THAT WHEN THEY MADE NEW IMPROVEMENTS, THEY NEEDED TO BE COGNIZANT OF THESE PARAMETERS.
AND SO THAT'S ALL WE'RE SAYING IS THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR AMENDMENT, AS IT'S SUGGESTED, IS THAT THEY'RE NOT ASKING TO MAKE A CHANGE OF YOUR EXISTING SIGN.
IT'S WHEN YOU HAVE A NEW SIGN.
AND SO I THINK AS A STANDARD MOVING FORWARD, THIS WOULD BEHOOVE THE CITY TO HAVE A STANDARD FOR THE ENTIRE CITY MOVING FORWARD, WHICH IS SUPPORTIVE OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND CONSISTENCY AND LIGHTING TO AVOID, UH, LIGHT SPILLAGE AND LIGHT POLLUTION.
THERE ARE VERY MANY POSITIVE BENEFITS TO IT.
I UNFORTUNATELY DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY WITH A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION OUTTA THIS COMMITTEE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE DIVERSI DIVERSI DIVERSIFICATION IN THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE MOVING THIS ITEM FORWARD TO VOTE.
SO I MEAN, WE CAN SIT HERE AND ARGUE THIS BACK AND FORTH, BUT I HAVE A FEELING IT'S GONNA GET MOTION DENIED.
YOU ALREADY SIGNALED, MARK THAT YOU WERE GONNA KILL IT WITH YOUR THUMB.
UM, I JUST THINK THAT YOU KNOW IT FOR TIMELINESS, IF WE CAN JUST MOVE ON AT THIS POINT, AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THE MOST STRONGEST RECOMMENDATION THAT THIS DOES MOVE FORWARD FOR A COUNCIL CONSIDERATION.
AND IF THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN, THEN MAYBE A COUNCIL MEMBER WILL DO A C C R ON THIS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM AS THOUGH THE INDUSTRY IS SUPPORTIVE OF WANTING TO MEET AN M L O D STANDARD FOR THE ENTIRE CITY FOR NEW SIGNAGE AND THAT, THAT UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.
SO I JUST, I I THINK THAT, UM, WE COULD SIT HERE AND GO BACK AND FORTH ALL DAY ON THIS ONE, BUT THANK YOU.
SO I, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT ON THIS? WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT ON THE SCREEN? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING, IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? IS THAT THE, THE, THE STANDARDS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ADOPTING? OR IS THERE SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT SEEING? I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT EXACTLY IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
I'D BE HAPPY TO STEP THROUGH, BUT THIS IS ONE OF THEM.
SO CAN I, CAN I JUST, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST POSTPONE CONSIDERATION OF THIS AND DIRECT STAFF TO GET WITH TWO OR THREE SIGN COMPANIES TO EVALUATE IS THERE A COST DIFFERENCE TO PUTTING A NEW SIGN UP THIS WAY VERSUS WHAT THE CURRENT STANDARDS ARE.
AND IF THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE IN THE COST, THEN I'LL SURPRISE YOU AND I WOULD PROBABLY SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
AND SO, BUT, BUT TO ASK TO DO A WHOLE WHOLESALE CHANGE WHERE NOBODY HAS A CLUE WHAT THE COST DIFFERENTIALS ARE, I, I THINK WE NEED TO FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT, WHAT IT IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
BECAUSE IF IT'S ANYTHING THAT WAS ON THE SCREEN, IT'S NOT JUST, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT CALVIN TEMPERATURE OR ANYTHING.
I MEAN, THERE WAS RESTRICTIONS ON THERE ABOUT HOW MANY SIGNS CAN GO UP.
I MEAN, IT'S, I MEAN, WE HAVE TO BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
IF IT'S NOT JUST BILLBOARDS, THERE'S NO RESTRICTION ON HOW MANY SIGNS CAN GO UP.
OKAY, OUR, WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIND OUT BECAUSE IT'S JUST NO ONE WHICH LANGUAGE, LANGUAGE IS THE PROPOSED CHANGE.
THE BLUE LANGUAGE IS THE ONLY THING.
ALL THE OTHER LANGUAGE IS EVERYTHING ELSE IS CURRENTLY EXISTING.
SO, SO I WOULD LIKE, IF THERE'S NO OBJECTION TO DELAY THIS TO THE, THE LAST MEETING AND GET SOME QUANTIFIABLE NUMBER, AND IN OTHER WORDS, IF THIS COSTS NOTHING TO PUT UP IN A NEW SIGN, THEN I THINK IT'S A NO BRAINER.
IF IT'S A 10 OR 15 OR 20 OR 25 OR A HUNDRED PERCENT DIFFERENCE IN THE COST OF ERECTING A NEW SIGN WITH THE NEW RULES, THEN I HAVE A PROBLEM BECAUSE IT IS ALSO AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, AN ECONOMIC GENERATOR ISSUE FOR SMALLER BUSINESSES WHO ARE GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THIS.
AND SO IF THERE'S NO OBJECTION FROM THE VOTING MEMBERS, I WOULD LIKE TO SUSPEND IT AND
[01:10:01]
BRING IT BACK.BUT DIRECT STAFF TO WORK WITH LARRY AND WHOEVER THE SIGN INDUSTRY IS TO GET A, A QUANTIFIABLE COST PICK A SIGN AND, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COST OF ILLUMINATED SIGNS MUST MEET FULL CONTROL CRITERIA.
NO LIGHT OUTPUT EMITTED ABOVE 90 DEGREES AT ANY LATERAL ANGLO AROUND THE FIXTURE, AND SHALL NOT EXCEED A C C T OF 3000 KELVIN THAT'S, THAT'S THE CORRECT ONLY THING THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
SPEAKING OF THE OTHER SIGN RULES.
WELL, WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO.
WHAT OTHER SIGN RULES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? IS THAT THE ONLY RULE YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT IS THE CONSISTENT LANGUAGE ACROSS ALL OF OUR AMENDMENT REQUESTS.
SO, SO THAT IT, IT'S IN A, IT'S IN SEVERAL PLACES.
J JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHAT, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS ADDING AN ADDITIONAL CRITERIA OR RESTRICTION, UM, TO, UM, SIGN OWNERS THAT DOESN'T CURRENTLY EXIST.
BUT IF IT DOES, THAT DOESN'T, THAT DOESN'T CURRENTLY EXIST OUTSIDE OF THE M L O D M O D, OUTSIDE OF THE M L O D.
THOSE REQUIREMENTS STILL EXIST WITHIN THE M L O D.
THE OTHER THING, AND, AND I AGREE WITH THE COMMENT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER, THIS IS A MUCH BIGGER ISSUE THAN THIS COMMITTEE.
I THINK IN THE FIRST PRESENTATION WE ESTABLISHED THAT THE, UH, THE LIGHT, UH, ILLUMINATED FROM SIGNS IS A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL LIGHT THAT IMPACTS THE DARK SKIES.
AND SO, TH THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE THAT I BELIEVE, UM, THE CITY NEEDS TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IF IT'S, IF IT'S IMPORTANT AND A PRIORITY TO THE CITY, THERE'S NOTHING WE'RE GONNA DO IN THIS COMMITTEE TO IMPACT THE OVERALL DARK SKY ILLUMINATION.
I, I ALSO, AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY BECAUSE I MADE THAT COMMENT, I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA SURVIVE OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT A DIVERSIFIED COMMITTEE.
WE DON'T HAVE EQUAL REPRESENTATION WHEN IT COMES TO INDIVIDUALS IN THE COMMUNITY AND INDUSTRY HOLDERS IN VOTING AND MAKING A RECOMMENDATION.
THAT'S WHY I FEEL IT'S NOT THAT IT'S NOT A BIGGER ISSUE.
I THINK THIS COMMITTEE SHOULD SUPPORT IT.
UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S NOT GOING TO BASED ON COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE AND, AND AND SO FORTH.
I, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S THE, A BALANCE HERE.
AND I, YOU KNOW, HOPE THAT AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN THIS COMMITTEE CONVENES IN THE FUTURE, THAT IT'S LOOKED TO BE A MORE BALANCED AS COMMUNITY MEMBERS, WE ALL SIT HERE AND SIR, YOU SIT HERE WITH US TOO.
WE HAVE A VOICE, BUT OUR VOICE ONLY GOES AS A DISCUSSION POINT HERE AT THE COMMITTEE.
AND SO I'M RESPECTFUL OF EVERYBODY'S POINT.
THIS ISN'T ASKING ANYBODY ELSE TO CONVENE IT.
I MEAN, IF YOU REALLY WANNA TAKE A, A THRESHOLD, IF YOU LOOK AT THE M L O D, ALL THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS WERE NOTIFIED BECAUSE THAT WAS A ZONING OVERLAY CHANGE.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PUBLIC BEING EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT M L O D IS AND PROPERTY OWNERS BEING NOTIFIED ABOUT IT, WE CAN GO PULL THE NUMBER OF OBJECTIONS THAT CAME IN FROM ALL THOSE ZERO, THOSE ZONING CASES THAT WENT THROUGH THE CITY COUNCIL.
SO MAYBE THAT'S YOUR, YOUR, UH, WEATHER VEIN ON THE COMMUNITY AND PROPERTY OWNERS.
AND THEY'RE NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL, THEY'RE ALSO COMMERCIAL PROPERTY OWNERS.
WHEN ALL THOSE M L O D OVERLAYS PASSED AND THEY DIDN'T ALL PASS AT ONE TIME, THEY PASSED IN A SERIES AND THEY PASSED IN TWO STEPS IN TWO DIFFERENT TYPES.
SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT, UM, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT EDUCATING THE COMMUNITY, WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO FOCUS ON A STANDARD FOR OUR COMMUNITY THAT REALLY FITS TOWARDS ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND BEING, UH, RESPECTFUL OF LIGHT POLLUTION AND SPILLAGE AND LUMENS MOVING FORWARD.
THE ONLY THING THIS DOES IS IT TALKS ABOUT THE BRIGHTNESS AND IT TALKS ABOUT THE ANGLE OF THE LIGHT.
AND I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE.
IT TALKS ABOUT THE TEMPERATURE AND THE LIGHTS.
I I HOPE THAT THE LOGIC THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW NO ONE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE M MODS IS ABLE TO CARRY ON THE LOGIC OF ONLY 121 COMPLAINTS IN, IN FIVE YEARS.
IT'S, IT'S D IT'S DIFFERENT
I MEAN, THIS SEEMS LIKE THIS IS A MUCH BIGGER ISSUE THAN THE, THAN THE COMMITTEE WE'RE JUST PICKING ON SIGNS.
'CAUSE WE HAVE THE, THE PLATFORM TO DO IT HERE.
THE SIGNS ARE NOT GONNA MAKE AN IMPACT ON ANYTHING.
AND I HAVE TO SAY, IT'S AN ABSOLUTE FANTASY TO THINK THAT A CITY OF 1.2 MILLION PEOPLE IS EVER GONNA HAVE DARK SKIES.
I MEAN, WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME MEASURE OF REALITY IN WHAT THE CITY IS CAPABLE OF ENFORCING AND WHAT IS WORTH PURSUING IN A TIME WHEN EVERYTHING IS MORE EXPENSIVE.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, THIS IS NOT A VACUUM THAT WE'RE LIVING IN, YOU KNOW, THE FANTASY OF CONTROL OF THINGS IS JUST BEYOND ME.
I'LL JUMP IN, ALTHOUGH I KNOW AMIN'S BEEN WAITING TO, EXCUSE ME, AM AMINE NEXT.
AND THEN, SO LEMME JUST JUMP IN, UH, CONCEPT WISE, I MEAN, I,
[01:15:01]
I UNDERSTAND AND I OVERALL AGREE WITH IT, BUT I, I THINK SEVERAL OF YOU MENTIONED THIS.THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE THAN THIS CODE.
SO CHAPTER 28 NORMALLY SAYS TO FOLLOW THE U D C U D C IS THE MAIN CODE FOR THE CITY.
IT'S THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE THAT ADDRESSES ZONING.
M L O M L O D IS ACTUALLY A ZONING LAYER THAT IS REQUIRED BY, AGAIN, THE ZONING THROUGH THE U D C.
SO THIS CODE FOLLOWS THAT THIS CHANGE, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITH THE U D C CHANGES, BECAUSE IF YOU MADE THAT ZONING THROUGHOUT THE CITY, THEN WE ARE GONNA COMPLY WITH IT HERE.
LIKE AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS A BIGGER DISCUSSION THAN CHAPTER 28, IN MY OPINION.
UH, NOW, BUT I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND BECAUSE I THINK IT SOUNDS THE RECOMMENDATION IS FOR US TO GO TALK TO, UH, CONTRACTORS TO GET SOME INFORMATION.
SO I JUST WANNA ASK A QUESTION.
WHEN WE ARE SAYING WE DON'T WANT THE LIGHT TO GO ABOVE THE 90 DEGREES, SO ARE WE SAYING JUST TO PUT A SHIELD, IS, IS THE ADDITIONAL COST TO SHIELD, IS THAT WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? THAT THAT COULD BE ONE OF THE COSTS.
IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE FIXTURE HAS ALREADY ATTACHED TO IT.
SO SOME FIXTURES MAY ALREADY HAVE SOME FORM OF SHIELDING.
SOME FIXTURES MAY ALREADY BE FULL CUTOFF.
SO IT'S GONNA BE IN A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
AND THEN THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE, SO THE 19 POINT SOMETHING MILLION THAT THE CITY IS WASTING, I GUESS WITH ENERGY, IS THAT SPECIFICALLY SIGNS OR YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S CITYWIDE? NO, THAT'S, THAT'S JUST EXTRAPOLATING BASED ON THE FIGURES THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN AND BASED ON THE POPULATION DENSITY.
I CAN TRY TO GET YOU A MORE EXACT NUMBER, BUT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE RANGE, BUT THAT, THAT'S CITYWIDE.
IT IS NOT JUST SIGN YOU ARE CORRECT, YES.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE AND WHY, WHY THIS WAS NOT INCLUDED.
I MEAN, WE ARE WORKING WITH THE VARIOUS CODE UPDATES IN THE U D C AS THEY COME ALONG.
SO AFTER THE M L O D, THIS WAS THE NEXT ONE.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE WILL BE LOOKING AT EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE THAT COMES UP WITH CODE CHANGES AND, AND CODE ADJUSTMENTS.
BUT JUST SPEAKING TO MS. MALDONADO'S COMMENT, YOU KNOW, WE WENT THROUGH THE ALMOST YEAR LONG PROCESS WITH THE M L O D AMENDMENTS, AND THAT WAS ZERO COMPLAINTS THAT WENT THROUGH OVER HALF A DOZEN COMMITTEES AND OVER 79 PEOPLE VOICING LETTERS, PUBLIC COMMENTS, EMAILS, PHONE CALLS FOR THIS.
SO I AGREE THAT, THAT IT DOES NEED BETTER COMMUNITY REPRESENTATION BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A BALANCED REPRESENTATION OF THE COMMUNITY CENTER.
YOU GUYS, SO DID, DID YOU GUYS GO THROUGH THE U D C? WE, WE JUST WENT THROUGH THAT A YEAR OVER A YEAR PROCESS AND THEY CHANGED A LOT OF THINGS THAT U D C.
YEAH, WE, WE WENT THROUGH THE ENTIRE U D C PROCESS WITH YOU AND IT WAS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL JUST LAST MONTH.
SO IT IS APPROVED THAT THE WHOLE CITY IS NO, THIS IS FOR THE MILITARY LIGHTING OVERLY DISTRICT ORDINANCE.
SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO AND, AND IS DIRECT STAFF TO GO BACK, TALK TO THE SIGNED CONTRACTORS, FIGURE OUT EXACTLY, TAKE, TAKE A SIGN, TAKE TWO, SIGNED, AND JUST GET WHAT THE DIFFERENTIAL IN COST IS TO COMPLY VERSUS THE WAY THEY WOULD BUILD IT RIGHT NOW.
AND IF THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, IF THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN THE COST OF DOING IT, IT BECOMES A NO-BRAINER.
IF THERE IS A COST OF DOING IT, THEN THAT BECOMES PART OF THE DISCUSSION.
'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, YOU'RE THE EXPERT, DON, NOT ME, BUT WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PUT IN FULL CUTOFF, MY UNDERSTANDING OF FULL CUTOFF IS ESSENTIALLY THE LIGHT SOURCE HAS TO BE, I'M GONNA HAVE TO TAKE MY FINGER OFF.
THE LIGHT SOURCE HAS TO BE COMPLETELY SHROUDED BELOW THE, THE HORIZONTAL.
DIGITAL BILLBOARDS, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, BUT RIGHT NOW, THE WAY DIGITAL BILLBOARDS, THE ONES WE PUT UP, AGAIN, NOT TALKING ABOUT ON PREMISE IS WE HAVE LOUVERS.
I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
WE HAVE LOUVERS THAT COME UP, BUT THAT'S NOT A FULL CUTOFF.
THAT, THAT MY UNDERSTANDING, I'M, I'M LOOKING FOR YES, NO, FROM YOU.
THAT DEFINITION PRECLUDES THE USE OF DIGITAL BILLBOARDS.
I MEAN, I'M, I'M ASKING YES, IT WOULD, IT WOULD SEEM SO.
NO, BECAUSE WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION IN OUR WORKING GROUP, RIGHT? HUH? WE HAD THAT, WE TALKED ABOUT, WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND YOU EXPLAINED TO US HOW YOU DID IT.
AND I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THAT IS WORKS AND IS COMPLIANT.
BECAUSE THINK, THINK OF PARKING LOTS.
AGAIN, I GOTTA TAKE MY HAND OFF THE BUTTON.
AND IF YOU'RE ELIMINATING A BUTTON, A A, UH, PUT THE BULB BUTTON IN HERE.
HOW DO YOU COMPLETELY STOP LIGHT FROM A HORIZONTAL PLANE SPACE? AND I'M TALKING ABOUT ON-PREMISE TOO.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS SOLVES A PROBLEM.
HOW DO YOU STOP LIGHT FROM INTER FROM A GETTING
[01:20:01]
ABOVE THE HORIZONTAL PLANE 180 DEGREES? UNLESS THE LIGHT IS COMPLETELY, IS COMPLETELY CONS.WHICH YOU COULD NOT ELIMINATED OUTDOOR ADVERTISING, AT LEAST FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.
WELL, YOU TOLD US IN OUR WORK GROUP THAT YOU WERE M L O D COMPLIANT.
DIGITAL BILLBOARDS AREN'T INCLUDED IN THE M L O D LOOK, I WAS IN, I WAS IN THAT NEGOTIATION IN 2008.
I TALKED TO THE MILITARY MYSELF.
THEY PRECLUDED DIGITAL BILLBOARDS.
THEY TOOK THEM OUT ON, ON ON PURPOSE.
BUT YOU TOLD US YOUR DIGITAL BILLBOARDS MEET M L O D STANDARDS.
THEY DO BECAUSE THEY'RE, THEY DO, DIGITAL BILLBOARDS ARE NOT PART OF IT.
BECAUSE AS IT CAME IN THE M L O D IN 2008, DIGITAL BILLBOARDS WERE INCLUDED.
WE HAD THOSE, THE MILITARY TOOK THOSE OUT.
SO, SO I THINK THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE.
SO WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE IT AND MOVE ON.
BUT I WOULD, I WOULD ASK YOU, SO, SO WE WILL, HERE'S, WE'LL WORK WITH THE CITY, GET THE REQUEST OF YOU.
HERE'S WHAT I WANT FROM THE CITY IS TO GET THE COST DIFFERENT.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE FROM Y'ALL IS TO DEFINE TO THEM BEFORE THEY GO TO THE CONTRACTORS, WHAT IT MEANS.
BECAUSE IF YOU'RE SAYING I HAVE TO, IN OTHER WORDS, A BACK LET'S SIGN, SIGN THAT HAS BULBS BEHIND THE, THE PLASTIC FRONT, THERE IS NO WAY TO SHROUD THAT SO THAT YOU HAVE NO ADMISSION OF LIGHT PAST THE HORIZON.
IT'S, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE BASICALLY ALL IT IS IS LIT.
AND SO IF YOUR RULE THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING SAYS THAT I CAN'T PUT ANY MORE SIGNS UP ANYWHERE BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO MAKE ONE THAT IS LIT COMPLIANT, THEN I THINK THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME.
SO YOU NEED TO TELL THE STAFF EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS.
'CAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE, WE AGREED IN THE BILLBOARD, UH, WORKING GROUP THAT ALL DIGITAL BILLBOARDS NEEDED TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE LOUVERS WHERE THE LIGHT IS, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY IT'S LIT, BUT, BUT POINTING DOWN.
BUT IF, IF WHAT TIM'S SAYING IS THAT, OKAY, THIS FULL STANDARD, THERE'S NO WAY TO MEET THAT AND STILL HAVE A DIGITAL BILLBOARD.
AND IF YOU CAN'T DO IT WITH A DIGITAL BILLBOARD THAT'S LOUVERED DOWN, YOU CAN'T DO IT WITH AN ON-PREMISE SIGN.
AND I THINK THAT IS A BIGGER DEAL.
SO WE'RE MOVING TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM EIGHT DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO AMEND CHAPTER 28 FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF SAN ANTONIO ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT OVERLAY ZONING THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE CREATION OF DOWNTOWN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND PUBLIC ART PROGRAM POWERED BY OUTDOOR MEDIA.
SO BEFORE WE GET INTO THIS ONE, I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A VERY QUICK ONE.
CITY STAFF HAS REQUESTED THAT, UH, THIS IS NOT REALLY APPROPRIATE AT THIS TIME FOR THE SIGN CODE.
SO IF I, WHAT I WOULD LIKE IS A MOTION TO PUNT THIS, THAT IF THEY WANT TO DO THIS, THE PROPER AVENUE IS TO GO TALK TO THEIR COUNSEL PEOPLE AND GET COUNSEL TO POINT SOME KIND OF TASK FORCE TO LOOK AT THIS.
SO TECHNICALLY, YES, THIS IS, UM, A BIGGER ISSUE AND WE TALKED TO THE APPLICANT AS WELL, AND THEY ARE WILLING TO, UH, PROCESS THAT THROUGH COUNCIL.
BASICALLY THEY CAN GO TO A COUNCIL COMMITTEE TO PRESENT THEIR CASE AND, UH, POTENTIALLY IF, IF IT GOES THROUGH, THEY GET WHAT THEY WANT.
IT'S REALLY A POLICY ISSUE, NOT, NOT REALLY CHAPTER 28 CODE ISSUE AT THIS POINT.
SO CAN WE GET A MOTION TO THAT EFFECT? PLEASE? CAN WE NOT JUST NOT MAKE A MOTION AND IT DIES FOR LACK OF EMOTION? YEAH.
SO THAT THIS ITEM IS, THIS ITEM'S BASICALLY BEING PULLED AND REFERRED TO, UH, SOMEBODY ELSE BECAUSE WE'LL BE HERE ALL DAY.
OKAY, SO WE, UH, ALREADY ADDRESSED THAT AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE.
SO WE'RE MOVING TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, CHAPTER 28, AMENDMENT ITEM 11 DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO AMEND THE PERMITTING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE TEMPORARY PLACEMENT OF TEMPORARY SIGNS WITHIN THE PROPERTY LINES, OR ON THE RIGHT OF WAY DIRECTLY ABUTTING
[01:25:01]
THE PROPERTY OF THE SIGN INSTALLER AND SIGNS WITHIN THE GEOGRAPHICAL BOUNDARIES WITHIN A REGISTERED NEIGHBORHOOD OR HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION PER SECTION 28 DASH SEVEN FOUR C SMALL SIGNS.SO I BELIEVE THIS ONE WILL ALLOW THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION TO PUT UP SIGNS, UH, ABOUT THEIR, UH, MEETINGS AND STUFF AND MAKE IT LEGAL WITHOUT HAVING TO GO GET ONE OF THOSE LITTLE GREEN PERMITING THINGS EVERY TIME THEY DO IT.
SO REALLY THERE'S TWO, TWO CHANGES THAT THIS WOULD, UH, COME IN.
SO ONCE AGAIN, WHERE WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS TEMPORARY SIGNS, AS WE DISCUSSED, ANY SIGN THAT'S LESS THAN FIVE YEARS, THIS IS A SMALL SIGN SIZES OF, UH, 10 SQUARE FEET OR LESS.
THESE ARE EXEMPTIONS TO THE REQUIREMENTS HERE AS OLDER PEOPLE CAN'T SEE THE, UH, AND INCLUDING ME.
SO ONCE AGAIN, SMALL SIGNS, UH, 10 FEET, SQUARE FEET OR LESS, THREE FEET ABOVE THE GROUND OR LESS.
UH, THEN THERE'S RULES ABOUT THE TEMPORARY PLACEMENT OF THE TEMPORARY SIGNS THAT ARE SMALL.
THESE WOULD BE TWO EXEMPTIONS TO THOSE SECTIONS FOR A THROUGH C, NOT FOR D.
SO D THERE'S STILL REQUIREMENTS ON HOW THEY'RE INSTALLED.
TWO STAKES, UH, NOT BEING ALLOWED TO BE INSTALLED ON STREET LIGHTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND THEY'D BE SELF-SUPPORTING WITH TWO STAKES IN THE GROUND.
BUT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN AN EXEMPTION OF AN APPLICANT IS REQUIRED TO APPLY FOR AND ISSUED AN PERMIT TO PLACE A TEMPORARY SMALL SIGN.
THIS EXEMPTION REQUIRES AN ANNUAL PERMIT.
THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT MUST RE REVIEW THE APPLICATION.
THAT WOULD STILL GO THROUGH THE, THE ANNUAL SIDE.
THE TEMPORARY PLACEMENT IS AUTHORIZED FROM FRIDAY TILL NO LATER THAN 9:00 PM THE FOLLOWING MONDAY.
SO IT WOULD KIND OF REMOVE THIS.
SO IT WOULD ALLOW, THIS EXEMPTION WOULD ALLOW THESE INDIVIDUALS TO INSTALL THESE SIGNS THROUGH PRETTY MUCH AT THIS 0.3 65 24 7.
THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT TIMES OF EXEMPTIONS.
FIRST IS, IF YOU PULL AN ANNUAL PERMIT, THEN YOU CAN INSTALL THIS ON YOUR PROPERTY OR THE ADJACENT RIGHT OF WAY OF YOUR PROPERTY.
SO THIS WOULDN'T BE PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE IN THE CITY.
IF YOU HAVE A PROPERTY, THEN YOU CAN INSTALL THIS TEMPORARY SIGNS AT ALL TIMES OUT THERE WITH THE ANNUAL PERMIT.
AND THEN THE SECOND ONE IS FOR KIND OF THE A H H O A OR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION.
IF YOU'RE A REGISTERED OR ASSOCIATION WITH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING SERVICES DEPARTMENT, THEN YOU COULD PULL A PERMIT AS WELL AND INSTALL THAT SIGN ANYWHERE WITHIN YOUR GEOGRAPHICAL LOW, UH, BOUNDARIES AS IDENTIFIED DURING YOUR REGISTRATION WITH THAT ORGANIZATION.
AND HOW MUCH IS THE PERMIT FEE PER YEAR? DO YOU KNOW? OR NO.
I MEAN, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A NOMINAL FEE.
SO WHAT'S THE LIMITING PRINCIPLE THAT ALLOWS HOMEOWNER ORGANIZATIONS TO DO THIS LOCATION? THAT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, THE REQUEST TO BE ABLE TO PUT IT THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE BOUNDARY.
IF WE DIDN'T HAVE IT SET UP BY LOCATION, THEN ANYBODY COULD PUT UP A SIGN ANYWHERE THEY WANTED TO WITH THIS AMENDMENT WITH AN ANNUAL, AND THIS IS NOT HERE.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT A, WHAT I CALL A GATED COMMUNITY KIND OF THING.
SO IF YOU HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, LIKE WE HAVE INGRAM HILLS THAT RUNS INGRAM CALLAHAN, THAT THEY WOULD, IN THEIR BOUNDARIES, COULD PUT UP A SIGN TO SAY, WE'RE HAVING AN ANNUAL MEETING, DO THIS, OR IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU KNOW, IT NO GARAGE.
IT'S MORE OF WE HAVE NO RULES ON WHAT IT CAN AND CAN'T BE.
SO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS A BUDDY DRIVEWAY DOESN'T HAVE A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION NOT ALLOWED TO DO THE SAME THING.
WELL, NOT HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, BUT ANYTHING THAT'S REGISTERED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND HOUSING ASSOCIATION, WHICH I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR THAT.
SO, POINT OF CLARIFICATION, YOU DON'T REGISTER WITH N A H SS D ANYMORE.
IT'S THAT NEW DEPARTMENT WITHIN G P A IS WHERE YOU REGISTER.
SO MAYBE JUST, OKAY, JUST PUT REGISTER UP OF LANGUAGE CITY.
I I MEAN IT WOULD, THE, THE PUR, THE, THE, I BROUGHT BOTH OF THESE FORWARD.
SO YOU, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE RULES THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO LIVE BY, IT SHOULD BE THE SAME RULES FOR EVERYBODY.
HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS PUT UP, YOU KNOW, DON'T CUT YOUR TREES.
WE'RE HAVING A COMMUNITY PARTY AND THERE'S NO MECHANISM WHERE THEY CAN LEGALLY PUT UP THE SIGN WITHOUT GOING TO GET ONE OF THOSE LITTLE STICKERS.
[01:30:02]
OR IN OUR CASE, IT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE PROPERTIES THAT WE WANNA, UM, SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING, WE CAN DO IT INSIDE OUR PROPERTY LINE.AND I DON'T THINK THE CITY COULD SAY MUCH ABOUT IT IF WE'RE DOING FREEZE WARNINGS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT IF WE WANT TO ADVERTISE ON THE RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE HAVE A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT, YOU KNOW, ALL BILLS PAID, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO PUT THAT SIGN UP AND NOT HAVE TO GO GET A LITTLE GREEN TAG EVERY YEAR, YOU KNOW, EVERY DAY TO BE ABLE TO PLACE THAT SIGN.
AND SO THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF BOTH OF THESE DEALS.
I AM ASSUMING THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IS NOT GOING TO BE PUTTING UP SIGNS THAT SAY GARAGE SALE AND THAT USUALLY IT'S, UH, RELATED TO THE OPERATION OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, NEIGHBORHOOD MEETINGS, COMMUNITY PARTIES, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO, YOU KNOW, FOR MY BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, GO GET A LITTLE GREEN TAG TO PUT THE SIGN IN, YOU KNOW, RIGHT IN FRONT OF PROPERTY THAT I AM.
SO THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THIS.
SO I'LL OPEN IT UP IF FURTHER DISCUSSION.
KLI, I, I THINK MIKE HAS A POINT WHEN IT COMES TO NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND THE REGISTRY, WHILE IT SERVES A VERY IMPORTANT POINT OF NOTIFICATION AND IN ZONING AND ALL THAT, THERE ARE MANY, THERE ARE MANY NEIGHBORHOODS WHO HAVE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS WHO ARE NOT, WHO ARE NOT REGISTERED WITH THE CITY.
AND I THINK THEY STILL BENEFIT THE, THE CITY TO SOME DEGREE, AND CERTAINLY THE HOMEOWNERS IN, IN PROVIDING AN ORGANIZATION FOR SOCIALIZATION AND A LOT OF OTHER, AND COMMUNICATION.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT, THAT WE WANT TO NECESSARILY RESTRICT IT TO THAT.
I WOULD RATHER WE RESTRICT CONTENT MORE THAN WHICH HOAS WE CAN.
AND I I ALSO SEE, NUMBER ONE, UNFORTUNATELY CONTENT, YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T RESTRICT CONTENT.
THE, THE REASON WE WENT THIS ROUTE IS TO MEET WHAT THE REQUESTER WAS ASKING FOR.
THIS IS THE ONLY MEASUREMENT 'CAUSE LOCATION, WE CAN RESTRICT LOCATION.
SO THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE HAVE WITHIN THE CITY, AT LEAST SOME FORM OF PROCESS TO SAY, HEY, HERE IS A LOCATION WHERE YOU CAN DO THIS, THAT'S REGISTERED WITH ANOTHER CITY DEPARTMENT.
IF WE GO BEYOND THIS, WE KIND OF REMOVE THAT RESTRICTION, THEN IT'S REALLY A BLANKET, HEY, GO PAY $50 ANNUALLY AND YOU CAN PUT SIGNS UP ANYWHERE YOU WANT ANYTIME AND NEVER HAVE TO TAKE 'EM DOWN.
SO IF YOU TAKE OUT, JEREMY, IF YOU TAKE OUT THE WORD OR JOSEPH REGISTERED AND JUST SAY BONAFIDE, WHICH MEANS THAT IT COULD BE BY DEEDED RESTRICTION AND THEY CHOOSE NOT TO REGISTER BECAUSE THAT MAKES THEM BONAFIDE OR THEY REGISTER AND THAT MEANS THEY'RE OFFICIAL.
WOULD IT MATTER? I I THINK PART OF THIS IS YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOME SORT OF ENFORCEMENT, RIGHT? AND, AND SO HAVING, UH, SOMETHING TO REFER BACK TO THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE KIND OF GETTING INTO SOME SLIPPERY SLOPES STUFF HERE AS FAR AS THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF REGULATION.
A AGAIN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A, PROBABLY THE VAST MAJORITY BE COMPLIANT, BUT TO ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN ISSUES, UM, THAT THAT POP UP, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE SOME FRAME OF REFERENCE TO, TO, YOU KNOW, UH, ENFORCE THIS.
YEAH, I MEAN, I MEAN, I THINK WITH THIS IS NOT CURRENTLY BEING FORCED.
IT NEVER HAS BEEN ENFORCED ON NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I JUST THINK IT'S, NOTHING'S GONNA CHANGE TOMORROW.
BUT I THINK MAKING, IF WE'RE GONNA TIGHTEN UP ON THE SIGN, YOU KNOW, THESE LITTLE BANDIT SIGN RULES, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO MAKE IT WHERE THERE'S SOME EXEMPTION FOR THOSE GROUPS.
AND SO I THINK BONAFIDE DOES IT, AND THEN IT JUST PROVIDES THAT CUTOUT FOR THEM.
AND, AND THEN IF THAT DOESN'T WORK, WE CAN COME BACK NEXT, GO AROUND AND MAKE IT SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
BUT I, IT'S JUST BUSINESSES SHOULD BE ABLE TO PLACE SIGNS IN FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY AND WITHOUT GOING AND PAYING THE CITY A FEE.
AND, YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME THEY WANT TO PUT SOMETHING UP AND SO SHOULD THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
COLLEEN, I HAVE A QUESTION ON, ON NUMBER ONE.
[01:35:01]
FOR EXAMPLE, APARTMENT COMPLEXES.DO THEY PERMIT ALL THOSE TEMPORARY SMALL SIGNS THEY PUT UP? I MEAN, I, I SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FREEZE WARNING AND THREE PETS ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S MORE ADVERTISING IN NATURE.
ARE THEY CURRENTLY PAYING? ARE THEY CURRENTLY GETTING PERMITS? AND ARE WE, WHAT WE TALKING ABOUT, IS THAT PER PROPERTY OR PER SIGN? DO YOU WANT THE REAL ANSWER? THE ANSWER IS NOBODY IS ANSWER.
THE REALLY IS NOBODY IS DOING IT.
IF THE SIGN IS LOCATED OFF OF THEIR, WHAT I CALL THEIR FRONTAGE A LOT ARE BECAUSE THE CITY WILL FIND YOU IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, FIVE MILES DOWN THE STREET.
AND SO THESE, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FIVE MILES DOWN THE STREET.
AND THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY NOT.
I, I DON'T WANNA SAY NO ONE, BUT MY GUESS WOULD BE IS, YEAH.
AND SO WE WANT TO PROVIDE THE EXEMPTION FOR BOTH TO BRING THEM INTO LEGAL COMPLIANCE SO THAT AS, AS THE ENFORCEMENT GETS UP, YOU KNOW, IN, IN MOST APARTMENTS OR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, AND THIS WOULD APPLY TO SEVEN 11 OR, OR UH, OR BILL MILLER OR WHATEVER THAT PUTS A NOTE NOW, HIRING LITTLE BANDIT STAKE IN FRONT OF THEIR PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD JUST BE ABLE TO GET A NOMINAL ANNUAL PERMIT AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE THOSE UP WITHOUT HAVING TO GO GET A STICKER EVERY WEEK, EVERY FIVE DAYS PER SIGN OR PER PROPERTY.
IT'S PER PROPERTY OR PER NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION.
SO WHEN I SAY BONAFIDE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE CITY WOULD, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD MAKE THAT DETERMINATION IN ISSUING THIS SIGN UNDER WHATEVER LOOSEY GOOSEY REGULATIONS.
THEY WANT TO COME UP TO DO THAT BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION ARE GONNA PUT A BUNCH OF SIGNS UP ALL OVER THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, THAT'S GONNA DETRACT OR THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE GONNA THAT.
SO IN THE RULES, UM, AND I'M SORRY, IS THERE A LIMIT TO THE NUMBER OF SIGNS YOU CAN PUT UP ON ONE PROPERTY AND IS THERE A LIMIT TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT PARTICULAR SIGN STAYS UP? WELL, THERE OR IT HAS TO COME DOWN.
SO IF YOU PUT A TWO BEDROOM, ONE BATH SIGN OUT FRONT, IT CAN STAY THERE IN PERPETUITY, EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE AVAILABLE.
OR ARE YOU GONNA PULL IT DOWN? UH, I WOULD SAY, AND, AND I WOULD TELL YOU IT DEPENDS ON THE CHARACTER OF THE SIGN.
SO THERE ARE SOME, THERE ARE SOME PROPERTIES THAT HAVE SIGNAGE ALONG THEIR FRONTAGE THAT ARE WHAT I CALL PERMANENT, MORE PERMANENT IN NATURE.
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS BANDIT SIGNS.
I HAVE THESE SIGNS IN FRONT OF MY PROPERTIES.
KIDS GET HOME FROM SCHOOL, SCHOOL BUS, THEY KICK THEM ALL THE TIME.
WHAT IT'S, I MEAN, THESE ARE MORE WHAT I CALL THE LITTLE CORRUGATED PLASTIC.
YOU KNOW, YOU STICK IN THE GROUND, IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, OPEN HOUSE OR WE'RE HAVING A MODEL OR NOW OPENING OR TWO BEDROOM AVAILABLE.
YOU CONCERN ABOUT THE NUMBER? I MEAN, UH, LAST TIME WE DID THIS, WE, THE ONE OF YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW WHY, UH, I GUESS, UM, IT WAS THOSE FLAGS, RIGHT? WHAT WERE THOSE? YEAH, SO WE MADE A RULE THAT THEY HAVE TO BE SPACED OUT CERTAIN AMOUNT.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A FINE BEST IF THAT'S, IF THAT ADDRESSES, YEAH.
HAVING SPENT A NUMBER OF, YOU KNOW, MANY, MANY YEARS IN PROPERTY MANAGEMENT, I PUT MY BANDIT SIGNS OUT ALL THE TIME, LEFT THEM THERE BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T REGULATED.
BUT FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WAS GOOD FOR YOU, GOOD FOR ME.
WELL, THEY BECAME, THEY BECAME LITTER MIKE, THEY WERE LITTER AND THEY GOT GRAFFITI.
IF YOU'RE DOING, YOU KNOW, UH, FREE WIFI, STORAGE UNITS, GARAGES, WHATEVER, THAT WOULD BE A SIGN, A BANDIT THAT WOULD STAY UP ALL THE TIME.
'CAUSE IT'S ADVERTISING, AN AMENITY IN YOUR PROPERTY IS DIFFERENT FROM IF YOU PUT TWO BEDROOM, ONE BATH AVAILABLE OR YOU KNOW, FREE.
WELL, NO, I UNDERSTAND YOU CAN'T REGULATE CONTENT, BUT ARE GONNA, CAN YOU REGULATE, UM, JUST THE NUMBER OF SIGNS? WHAT ARE YOU THE SIGN, PLEASE, YES, YOU CAN NUMBER, BUT THAT'S MY POINT.
YOU DON'T WANNA PUT, UH, UH, HOW, HOWEVER MANY SIGNS, IF YOU GOT A WHOLE BLOCK,
[01:40:01]
SAY OF WEST AVENUE FROM SILVER SANDS, YOU KNOW, DOWN TO THE SHOPPING CENTER AND YOU'VE GOT ONE EVERY 20 FEET, WHICH IS REALLY GOOD BECAUSE YOU CAN REALLY RENT YOUR APARTMENTS WHEN YOU DO THAT.BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S FOR ME IS OVERKILL.
SO YOU PUT, ALSO PUT A LIMIT ON ABBY.
YOU'VE PUT A LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF, THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU PUT A NUMBER, A LIMIT, THE NUMBER SIGNS YOU CAN PUT UP OR, YOU KNOW, CHANGE 'EM OUT.
SO ARE YOU LIMITING THE NUMBER OF SIGNS THAT A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION COULD PUT UP TO? NO, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES.
YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD SIGNS ARE GONNA BE UP THERE FOR YOUR HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION MEETING FOR YOUR 4TH OF JULY HOLIDAY, YOU KNOW, BARBECUE DOWN AT THE POOL, OAK WILT DRIP, YOUR FAUCETS, THAT SORT OF THING.
THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
I, TRUST ME, I CONCUR WITH YOU ON WHAT YOU'RE WANTING.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, WITH THAT.
I JUST THINK IF YOU JUST, IT'S NOT BEING REGULATED RIGHT NOW AND NOBODY IS CALLING IN TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE BUSINESSES HAVING A SIGN.
MOST OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE PROBLEMS OR ONES ON TELEPHONE POLES, WHICH THE CITY DOES A GREAT JOB OF TAKING THOSE OFF AND SIGNS THAT ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE, YOU KNOW, MILES DOWN THE ROAD, MOST BUSINESS OWNERS, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST IN MY INDUSTRY, CURB APPEAL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA, THEY'RE NOT GONNA MAKE THEIR PROPERTY LOOK JUNKY.
MY SUGGESTION IS WE PUT IT IN, WE LET IT PERCOLATE AND THE NEXT CYCLE, BECAUSE MY, MY GUESS IS WE'RE GONNA BE GOING, DOING ALL THIS AGAIN IN, YOU KNOW, TWO TO THREE YEARS AS WE DO THE CODE CYCLES.
AND IF IT'S A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN COME BACK AND ADDRESS IT THEN.
BUT I DON'T THINK AT THIS POINT, UNTIL WE KNOW, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S WORKING OR NOT, AND PEOPLE ARE PULLING PERMITS OR NOT, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK IT'S EASIER TO LEAVE IT MORE GENERAL AND SEE HOW IT GOES.
AND THEN IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH IT, WE'LL COME BACK AND ADDRESS IT.
COLLEEN, DID YOU HAVE, I'D ALMOST JUST ASSUME LEAVE IT THE WAY IT IS.
UM, I THINK IF YOU CONDONE IT AND LET 'EM PAY AN ANNUAL FEE, EVERY LITTLE BUSINESS IS GOING TO HAVE MULTIPLE SIGNS ALONG THEIR PROPERTY AND IT'S JUST GONNA LOOK JUNKY.
I REALIZE, I REALIZE IT'S NOT CURRENTLY ENFORCED.
I RECOGNIZE THAT, BUT I DON'T SEE THAT, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS GONNA KNOW THAT THIS EXISTS UNTIL THEY GET THEIR FIRST NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
WELL, AND AGAIN, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HAVING LIMITED RESOURCES TO UH, UM, ENFORCE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE CODE, THIS FREES UP THOSE RESOURCES.
NOTHING'S GONNA CHANGE RELATIVE TO THE NUMBERS, THE TYPES, THE, UH, THE OVERALL SIGNS.
IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF DO WE WANT CODE ENFORCEMENT FOCUSED ON THIS OR FOCUSED ON SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.
SO LET ME JUST JUMP IN HERE REAL QUICK.
WE, WE PAY OVER TIME, BASICALLY TO HAVE THE TEAM GO OUT ON SATURDAY AND JUST SWEEP, I GUESS THE CITY, IF YOU WILL, OR MOST, MOST OF THE AREAS.
AND IF THEY SEE ANY BANDIT SIGNS, THEY REMOVE THEM.
I MEAN WE, WE, I DUNNO HOW MANY BANDIT SIGNS WE REMOVED, I THINK HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF, OR MILLION OR WHATEVER.
UM, SO YEAH, I I GUESS COLLEEN TOUCHED ON THAT.
SO I KNOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EXCEPTION TWO, WHICH IS THE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS AND NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS, BUT THEN EXCEPTION ONE, I KNOW WE WERE TALKING ABOUT APARTMENTS, WHICH I, I PERSONALLY THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE, BUT I, WE CANNOT JUST SAY IT'S ONLY FOR APARTMENTS.
SO THAT EXCEPTION ONE, IT'S REALLY FOR EVERYBODY.
SO ANY BUSINESS YOU MENTIONED BILL MILLER'S MCDONALD'S, ANYBODY CAN GET AN ANNUAL PERMIT AND THEY JUST PUT SIGN AFTER SIGN AND REMOVE ONE, PUT ANOTHER ONE.
SO ALL YEAR LONG YOU'RE GONNA SEE A BUNCH OF SIGNS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
NOW IF I WANNA SEND A TEAM TO REMOVE BANDIT SIGNS AT EVERY LOCATION, THEY NEED TO STOP TO SEE DO THEY HAVE A PERMIT OR NOT.
AND THEN IF THEY HAVE PERMITS, LEAVE IT.
IF NOT, THEN THEY PULL IT AND GO TO THE NEXT ONE.
SO THE ENFORCEMENT GONNA BE A LOT HARDER IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THREE SOURCES.
I MEAN NOW I KNOW IT'S NOT ALLOWED.
SO WE REMOVE BASICALLY EVERY BANDED SIGN.
AGAIN, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE, WE KNOW THAT THIS, THIS IS NOT JUST HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS AND APARTMENTS.
I KNOW THAT'S THE FOCUS DISCUSSION, BUT REALLY EXCEPTION ONE OPENS IT UP FOR EVERYONE.
WELL, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT OPENING IT UP FOR EVERYONE.
I PERSONALLY HATE BANDED SIGNS.
I WISH, UM, THEY WERE JUST EXCEPTION ONE EXCEPTION ONE OPENS IT UP IF YOU PULL A PERMIT, ANNUAL PERMIT.
AND SO I THINK THERE'S GOTTA BE
[01:45:01]
A WAY TO CRAFT LANGUAGE THAT, UH, DIFFERENTIATES.SO LET'S GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND WE'LL PRESENT IT AT THE NEXT MEETING AGAIN AND SEE IF THERE IS JOSEPH, CAN YOU ALLOW, CAN YOU ALLOW AN EXEMPTION BASED UPON A USE? UH, YEAH, IT IS.
YOU'RE GETTING NOT MASSIVE USE OF THE PROPERTY.
WELL, HOW IS IT THAT, HOW IS IT THE POLITICAL SIGNS ARE EXEMPT? WELL, THOSE ARE THE MOST JUNKY SIGNS THAT THERE ARE.
WELL, WELL MY POINT IS IF YOU CAN COME UP WITH AN EXEMPTION FOR POLITICAL SIGNS, THEN I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO DO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING.
THERE'S STATE LAW PROVISION FOR POLITICAL SIGNS IN THE ELECTIONS CODE.
SO, BUT SO IN A NEIGHBORHOOD IN MY FRONT YARD, I CANNOT PUT UP A 50 FOOT SIGN BECAUSE IT'S A RESIDENTIAL ZONED AREA.
AND SO CAN YOU CREATE A EXEMPTION BASED UPON THE ZONING AND USE OF THE PROPERTY? AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING.
WAS THAT THE LAST ITEM? I HOPE? YES.
YOU GOT THREE MINUTES JUST SINCE WE'RE STILL ON THIS REAL QUICK, BUT YOU COULD, THIS DOESN'T APPLY TO, LIKE, IF SOMEBODY SAYS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO PUT UP THE LITTLE MESSAGES LIKE MOTHERS AGAINST THE LAST GOVERNOR THAT SET UP, IF YOU GET AN ANNUAL PERMIT, YOU GET TO LEAVE THAT, LEAVE THAT UP ALL YEAR.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA CHECK IN.
CORRECT? YEAH, CHECK WITH THAT.
I MEAN IT DEPENDS ON WHAT STIPULATIONS PUT ON THERE.
THAT'S, THAT'S LIKE EYE POLLUTION.
SO I MEAN IN, IN, AND WE'RE GONNA SEE HOW CLOSE WE CAN GET TO, UH, REGULATING CONTENT WITHOUT REGULATING CONTENT.
SO, SO I JUST, I JUST HAVE ONE LAST COMMENT ON THIS OBJECT.
PROSTITUTION, I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT, BUT WHEN YOU GET INTO NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY DON'T OWN PROPERTY, UM, TO PLACE THESE SIGNS.
SO THE SIGNS THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS ARE PLACING OUT ARE PLACED ON PRIVATE PROPERTY AND SO, BUT THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED.
OKAY, WELL YOU GET YOUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH TO SOME EXTENT OF BEING ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT SOME GARGANTUAN SIGN IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD.
UH, WHEN WE
SO THERE'S THAT TO WEIGH IN ON ALL OF THIS.
SO JUST, BUT THEY'RE PLACING IT IN THE PUBLIC.
MOST OF THOSE SIGNS ARE IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF AWAY, NOT THE ONES I'VE SEEN.
THEY'RE LIKE ON CORNER LOTS WHERE PEOPLE LIVE ON THE CORNER LOTS, BUT THEY'RE CORNER LOTS ON THE FIRST 10 FEET IS PUBLIC RIGHT OF AWAY, WHICH MEANS YOU CAN'T, YOU DON'T OWN IT.
SO REGARDLESS OF THAT, IF YOU COULD IN YOUR REPORT COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG SOMEBODY COULD PUT A, A SIGN IN PRIVATE PROPERTY, UM, NOT IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
UM, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOOD SIGNS GO.
OKAY, JEREMY, WHAT'S THE LAST ITEM? UH, WE HAVE, WELL LUCKILY THE LAST ONE WAS THE, WAS BEEN PULLED.
SO NUMBER SEVEN, THIS IS CHAPTER 28 AMENDMENT ITEM 15 DASH ONE.
REQUEST TO AMEND THE PROCESS REQUIREMENTS FOR MODIFYING AN EXISTING SIGNED MASTER PLAN SS AND P WHEN AN EXISTING LOT OWNER WITHIN THE S AND P IS NONRESPONSIVE TO REQUEST FOR CHANGE.
SECTION 28 DASH FOUR NINE SIGN MASTER PLAN DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT.
YEAH, THIS CAME OUT OF THE, ONE OF THE BIG CASES THAT JUST WAS HERE BY THE BIG BOARD AND CORRECT THE RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF, I BELIEVE IS TO APPROVE THIS.
WE, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY REAL ISSUES 'CAUSE THIS WOULD BE, THERE'S NOBODY THAT HAS ANY OBJECTIONS FOR MOVING FORWARD ONLY.
SO BASICALLY WHAT THIS IS, IS YOU FI YOU ORIGINALLY FILE A SIGNED MASTER PLAN, IT LISTS ALL THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND THEN SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE TO IT 25 YEARS LATER.
AND ONE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS WON'T RESPOND WITHIN A GIVEN PERIOD, EITHER YES OR NO.
AND BASICALLY WHAT THIS SAYS, I BELIEVE IS IF THEY FAIL TO RESPOND WITHIN THE TIME PERIOD, EITHER POSITIVE OR NEGATIVELY, IT CAN STILL GO FORWARD.
SO POINT OF CLARIFICATION, WHO'S THE APPLICANT FOR THIS AMENDMENT? IS IT STAFF? THIS? NO, THIS WAS, UM, FROM LARRY.
IT'S LARRY, BUT BUT IT FROM THE BOARD, IT CAME OUT OF, IT CAME OUT OF THE CASE.
WELL NOT A BOARD MEMBER A THAT HE'S, HE'S NOT ON THE BOARD.
HE'S, HE'S JUST A, UH, CONTRACT.
I WAS JUST ASKING WHO THE APPLICANT WAS.
[01:50:01]
IT WAS BASED UPON A CASE THAT THE, THE BIG BOARD JUST HEARD WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE DIRECTOR COULD NOT APPROVE IT BECAUSE ONE OF THE, THE WELLS FARGO SOMEWHERE, I BELIEVE SOMEPLACE WOULDN'T RESPOND TO.IS IT OKAY OR IS IT NOT OKAY SO THAT THE STAFF COULD NOT APPROVE THE MODIFICATION TO THE MASTER PLAN.
IT, IT HAD TO GO IN FRONT OF THE BIG BOARD TO BASICALLY, AND THE BIG BOARD VOTED TO APPROVE THE CHANGE.
AND SO THIS IS JUST A PROCESS CHANGE.
IT'S A GOOD ONE BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU MAY HAVE AN OWNER THAT DOESN'T RESPOND AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HOLD UP THE WHOLE PROCESS.
I JUST POINT OF CLARIFICATION.
AND DOES STAFF HAVE A POSITION ON THIS STAFF SUPPORTIVE OF IT ALSO? WE ARE.
BECAUSE ONCE IT'S NOT RETROACTIVE TO ANY CURRENT S AND P, SO NOBODY THAT'S WENT INTO AN AGREEMENT IS NOW RETROACTIVELY BEING CHANGED ON WHAT THEY, THE REQUIREMENTS ARE.
AND IF THERE IS A NON-RESPONSE FROM THE PERSON THAT IS PART OF THAT SIGN MASTER PLAN TO AMEND IT, NONE OF THE CHANGES THAT ARE CHANGED CAN NEGATIVELY IMPACT THAT.
THEY CAN'T SAY, OH YOU KNOW WHAT, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE A SIGN OVER HERE, BUT NOW THEY'RE NOT.
SO REALLY IT'S KIND OF A, WE CAN CHANGE OTHER THINGS AROUND ON THIS PROPERTY WITHOUT IMPACTING THE NON-RESPONSIVE.
SO IF WE GET A MOTION, THANK TO APPROVE MOTION TO APPROVE THE CHANGES TO THE SIGNED MASTER PLAN DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AS PRESENTED.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE.
AND THEN THE LAST ITEM WAS THE 85 FOOT INCREASEMENT THAT, UH, LARRY ASKED US TO LOOK AT FOR, AND THAT'S BEEN ON-PREMISE.
THAT'S, WE'VE LET 'EM KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, STAFF WOULDN'T REALLY RECOMMEND ANYTHING.
WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS WITH THAT.
AND REALLY ON-PREMISE SIGNS HAVE A LOT MORE MODALITY TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES.
THEY CAN MOVE IT ON THEIR PROPERTY.
THEY CAN ALREADY GO UP TO 70 FEET IF THEY'RE NEXT TO AN EXPRESSWAY BECAUSE OF THAT ADJACENT, IF THEY'RE A MULTI-TENANT SIGN.
SO WE JUST KINDA LOOKED AT IT LIKE THESE ARE VERY ISOLATED EVENTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ON THE BILLBOARDS.
THIS WOULD BE ALL OVER THE CITY.
SO WE DON'T REALLY RECOMMEND LOOKING AT THAT.
AND SO HE'S WITHDRAWN THAT CHANGE.
SO WE'LL LEAVE THAT AMENDMENT ITEM AS ALREADY VOTED ON BY.
[ Director's Report ]
HERE'S THE PROCESS GOING FORWARD.WE ARE NOT HAVING ANOTHER MEETING, I DON'T BELIEVE UNTIL AFTER ALL THE PUBLIC HEARINGS.
BOTH THE BILLBOARD COMMITTEE AND THIS COMMITTEE WILL GET BACK TOGETHER TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE CHANGES THAT WE NEED TO MAKE.
WE'LL HAVE HOPEFULLY JUST ONE MORE MEETING BEFORE IT GOES TO THE BIG BOARD OF BOTH OF THOSE GROUPS.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR PUTTING IN ALL THIS HARD EFFORT.
I KNOW SOME, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE IN THE BILLBOARD SUBCOMMITTEE BECAUSE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BEEN DOUBLE MEETINGS AND I'D LIKE TO WISH EVERYBODY A HAPPY HANUKKAH.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HOLIDAYS, KWANZA, WHATEVER ELSE I MISS SO THAT I'M CORRECT.
SO HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO EVERYBODY AND THANK YOU.
AND IF WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED.