* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          SO 
          [00:00:01]
I'D LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. 
          MORNING CHAIR JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT. 
          THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD SIGN CODE COMMITTEE MEETING FOR FEBRUARY 14TH, 2023. 
          FIRST MEETING OF THE NEW YEAR. 
          WE'RE AT 9 0 5. 
          STARTING THE MEETING. 
          WE'LL START WITH THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF OUR INTERPRETATION. 
          I'LL, ALRIGHT, HOW'S THAT? GOOD MORNING. 
          THIS IS A BRIEF, UH, ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT INTERPRETATION SERVICES. 
          I THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          NEXT 
          [
Roll Call
 ]
WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL FOR QUORUM. 
          ADRIAN CONTES. 
          JOE LEOS. 
          HERE. 
          MARK ROSS. 
          HERE. 
          MICHAEL RUST. 
          LIDDEL TOY. 
          PETE LEY JACK UP MOORE. 
          HERE WE HAVE THREE OUTTA THE FIVE PRIMARY HERE WE HAVE QUORUM. 
          THANK YOU. 
          IN ADDITION, WE, UH, DO A ROLL CALL FOR OUR NON APPOINTED MEMBERS, BIANCA MALDONADO PRESENT. 
          GREG MANN. 
          COLLEEN BECK HERE. 
          PATTY ZIONS. 
          THANK YOU, UH, ONCE AGAIN FOR ANYBODY THAT'S GONNA WATCH THIS ON A RECORDING. 
          UNFORTUNATELY, OUR STREAMING SERVICES ARE DOWN, BUT WE WILL RECORD AND, AND PUT THIS ON THE WEBSITE WITH ALL THE OTHER MEETINGS. 
          UH, THEY CAN USE THESE AS REFERENCES FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THESE PROPOSED CHANGES FOR THE CHAPTER 28. 
          WE HAVE NO OPENING, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THIS TIME, SO WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH MOVING INTO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE. 
          AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE IS TO 
          [
Approval of Minutes
 ]
APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARDS SIGN CODE COMMITTEE THAT WE HELD ON DECEMBER 21ST, 2022. 
          MOTION TO APPROVE. 
          SECOND JOE MOVED. 
          RIGHT, JOE? THANK YOU. 
          OKAY. 
          ANY DISCUSSION? CORRECTIONS, ADDITIONS? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. 
          AYE. 
          POSE. 
          MOTION CARRIES. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU CHAIR. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 
          [
Briefing and Possible Action on the following items
 ]
TWO IS NOT REALLY AN ACTIONABLE ITEM. 
          THIS IS MORE OF A REQUEST THAT CAME THROUGH CHAPTER, UH, OUR MEETING ON DECEMBER 21ST. 
          IN THAT DIS, THAT MEETING, WE'RE DISCUSSING THE BRIGHTNESS OF DIGITAL SCIENCE, BOTH ON-PREMISE AND OFF-PREMISE. 
          UH, WE HAD TWO PROPOSED AMENDMENTS THAT CAME IN. 
          ONE, ASKING US TO REEVALUATE THE BRIGHTNESS LEVELS THAT ARE APPROVED BOTH THROUGH THE KNITS AND FOOT CANDLES WITHIN CHAPTER 28 FOR BOTH ON-PREMISE AND OFF-PREMISE SIGNS. 
          AND ADDITIONALLY, A, A, UM, A REQUEST FOR US TO LOOK AT A PROACTIVE APPROACH, UH, THROUGH A FEE PROCESS, UH, LOOKING AT ALL ON-PREMISE SIGNS, UH, AND DOING AN AN ANNUAL IN INSPECTION OF THOSE BRIGHTNESS LEVELS. 
          UH, ULTIMATELY THOSE BOTH WERE, UM, NOT RECOMMENDED TO BE APPROVED BY THE COMMITTEE. 
          UH, BUT THE WORKER OR THE SUGGESTION WAS THAT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND D S D STAFF LOOK AT SOME FORM OF PROGRAM THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO BE DOING PROACTIVE INSPECTIONS OF THE ON-PREMISE DIGITAL SIGNS. 
          ONCE AGAIN, ON THE OFF-PREMISE DIGITAL SIGNS, WE DO INSPECT THOSE ANNUALLY AS PART OF THE PROCESS OF THE OFF-PREMISE SIGNS PERMITTING IN REQUIREMENTS. 
          UH, BUT THE, UH, ON-PREMISE SIGNS, WE'VE ONLY INSPECT THOSE AT THE INITIAL INSPECTION REQUIREMENTS TO WHEN THEY PERMIT THAT SIGN TO ALLOW THEM TO START USING IT. 
          AND THEN IF ANY COMPLAINTS COME IN. 
          SO IT'S A REACTIVE APPROACH. 
          UH, SO WE LOOKING AT SOME GUIDELINES TO, TO APPROACH A PROACTIVE, UH, PILOT PROGRAM. 
          SO LOOKING AT THAT INTERNALLY, WE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS WHAT WOULD BE SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS WE NEED TO DO. 
          UH, ONE OF THE BIGGEST ONE IS, IS WHEN THE SUN GOES DOWN DURING THE SUMMER SUN GOING DOWN AT NINE 30 AT NIGHT, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO GO OUT AND DO THESE INSPECTIONS. 
          UH, SO WHAT WE SAID WAS, WE KINDA NEED IT TO BE WHERE THE SUN IS GOING DOWN BEFORE AROUND 7:00 PM WHICH REALLY KIND OF COINCIDED LOOKING AT, UH, THIS, THE TYPICAL SUNSET TIMES ABOUT OCTOBER 1ST, WHICH FORTUNATELY FALLS WITHIN OUR NEXT FISCAL YEAR. 
          UH, SO IF WE DO GO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME TYPE OF PILOT PROGRAM, WE CAN KIND OF LOOK AT THAT ON THE FISCAL SIDE, UM, ALL THE WAY THROUGH DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME. 
          ONCE DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIMES HITS, THAT HOUR CHANGE, UH, SUNSETS A LITTLE BIT LATER. 
          UH, THAT'S ABOUT WHEN IT CUT OFF. 
          START MOVING CLOSER TO EIGHT O'CLOCK. 
          SO THE PILOT PROGRAM, WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE WEEKS BETWEEN OCTOBER 1ST, 2023 THROUGH MARCH 10TH, 2024. 
          WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS TWO INSPECTORS PERFORMING ABOUT THREE HOURS, UH, ONCE A WEEK. 
          UH, ONCE AGAIN, THESE WOULD NOT BE DEDICATED INSPECTORS. 
          THESE WOULD BE INSPECTORS 
          [00:05:01]
THAT ARE DOING THEIR NORMAL 40 HOUR WEEKS, UH, DURING THE DAY. 
          UH, I MEAN, DOING SOME OVERTIME. 
          UH, SO WE WANT TO OVERSTRESS THEM. 
          UH, SO AS A PILOT PROGRAM, UH, WE ANTICIPATE DURING THOSE THREE HOURS BEING ABLE TO COMPLETE THREE SIGNS PER NIGHT. 
          UH, THE CIS MEASUREMENTS, UH, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DO FIVE MEASUREMENTS PER SIGN, UH, SET UP AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          SO OUR, OUR AGGRESSIVE APPROACH IS THREE, UH, TO GET US THROUGH THAT. 
          UH, WHAT WE'LL ALSO DO IS WE'LL FIND AN AREA WITH DIGITAL, UH, THREE DIGITAL SIGNS NEAR EACH OTHER TO LIMIT DRIVE TIME. 
          SO THE WHOLE POINT IS WE'LL DO A LITTLE PROACTIVE APPROACH. 
          FIND, YOU KNOW, HERE'S A GOOD SPOT, UH, THAT WE CAN KNOCK OUT THESE THREE SIGNS ALL AT ONE TIME WITHOUT DRIVING ACROSS THE CITY AND WASTING TIME, UH, THROUGH COMMUTING CHARACTERISTICS OF THE SIGN SELECTED. 
          UH, THREE SIGNS SELECTED FOR EACH NIGHT WILL BE FOR A UNIQUE INDUSTRY. 
          SO WE DON'T WANT TO ISOLATE AND GO AFTER ONE INDUSTRY. 
          SO WHAT WE'LL TRY TO LOOK FOR IS, UM, AN AREA THAT HAS THREE SIGNS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, ONE PROVIDING A SERVICE, ONE PROVIDING A PRODUCT. 
          UH, ONE OF THEM, UH, MAYBE, YOU KNOW, DOING SOME OTHER FORM OF ADVERTISEMENT, UH, FOR THAT, FOR THAT PROPERTY. 
          BUT THE GOAL BEING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST NOT LOOKING IN ISOLATING TO ONE, UH, YOU KNOW, CAR DEALERSHIP TYPE THING. 
          UM, WE'LL SPEND, WE'LL SPREAD THE LOCATIONS ACROSS ALL 10 COUNCIL DISTRICTS AS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. 
          AND WE'LL FOCUS TO, UH, ON PROTECTED STREETS AND EXPRESSWAYS FOR AT LEAST 50% OF THE SIGNS INSPECTED. 
          SO WE'LL LOOK AT ALL OF OUR, UH, SP PROTECTED CORRIDORS, GATEWAY CORRIDORS, URBAN CORRIDORS, THINGS SUCH AS THAT. 
          UH, WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT AT LEAST 50% OF THOSE OF THE SIGNS INSPECTED OVER THIS PILOT PROGRAM FALL WITHIN THOSE PROTECTED AREAS. 
          WE ANTICIPATE THIS BEING ABOUT, UH, WITH HOLIDAYS, POTENTIAL FOR WEATHER, UH, STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          DOING ABOUT 20 INSPECTIONS FOR A TOTAL OF 60 INSPECTIONS OF THE, OF THE PILOT PROGRAM. 
          AND JUST FOR REFERENCE OF WHAT THAT MEANS ON DIGITAL, WE PULLED A QUICK REPORT, UH, BETWEEN 2017 AND NOW WE ISSUED ABOUT 250 DIGITAL ON-PREMISE DIGITAL SIGNS. 
          SO OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS, YOU KNOW, THAT 60 WOULD BE A GOOD 20% OF THOSE ROUGHLY. 
          UM, AND I'M SORRY, 240, I FORGOT THAT I ACTUALLY PUT IT IN THERE. 
          SO, UH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S KINDA WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, OF PERCENTAGE OF PROACTIVE INSPECTIONS. 
          NOW, ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE ALSO GONNA BE GOING THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO EDUCATE THE, THE COMMUNITY, HELP THEM UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS OF, OF NOTIFYING US OF ANY SIGNS THEY FEEL ARE ARE BRIGHT. 
          SO ANY SIGNS THAT WE GET DURING THAT TIME PERIOD THAT IS A COMPLAINT, WE WOULD NOT COUNT TOWARDS THIS PROACTIVE APPROACH. 
          SO WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT ANY COMPLAINTS THAT COME IN, UH, WOULD BE IN ADDITION TO, UH, THESE, UH, 60 OTHER INSPECTIONS. 
          ONE QUESTION, ONE QUESTION I HAVE IS, I'M ASSUMING IF THEY GET A COMPLAINT AND YOU FIND THAT THEY'RE IN VIOLATION, THEY'LL GET REINSPECTED ON A MORE REGULAR BASIS? WELL, I MEAN, CURRENTLY IF WE GET A COMPLAINT, WE GO OUT THERE AND WE, WE INSPECT IT UNTIL THEY COME, UNTIL THEY PASS. 
          SO IF WE GO OUT AND THEY FAIL, WE NOTIFY THEM, WE TELL THEM TO GET WITHIN COMPLIANCE, TYPICALLY THEY ADJUST IT. 
          UM, WE GO OUT THERE THE NEXT DAY OR TWO WHEN WE HAVE AN AVAILABILITY AND TEST IT AGAIN UNTIL IT, UNTIL IT PASSES. 
          UM, SO, SO WITH THIS PROACTIVE APPROACH, YOU KNOW, THAT I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE BEYOND THE PILOT PROGRAM. 
          'CAUSE WHAT I DON'T WANT IS US GOING AFTER ONES THAT DO HAVE ISSUES OR THE GOAL IS TO KIND OF SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE NEED FOR THE PILOT PROGRAM IF OF THESE 60 INSPECTIONS THAT DON'T HAVE ANY COMPLAINTS OR HAVE ANY ISSUE, HOW MANY ARE FAILING. 
          YOU KNOW, IF WE COME OUT AND WE COME IN AND SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE DID 60 AND ONLY ONE OR TWO OF 'EM FAILED, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO WEIGH WHEN WE GO TO COUNCIL AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS IS GONNA BE A PERMANENT PROGRAM AND THIS IS GONNA BE THE COST IMPACTS FOR THAT. 
          WHAT ARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT NUMBER OF, UH, POTENTIAL INFRACTIONS WILL WE COME ACROSS THROUGH THAT PILOT PROGRAM? SO WE DON'T WANNA MUDDY THE PILOT PROGRAM 60 WITH ANYTHING. 
          WE GET COMPLAINTS. 
          BUT ONCE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, IF WE GET A COMPLAINT, YOU KNOW, THAT MIGHT BE ANOTHER PROCESS OF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GET A COMPLAINT IN THE LONG TERM, THEN YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA TEST YOU OUT EVERY THREE MONTHS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE GET PAST THE PILOT PROGRAM. 
          OKAY. 
          I MEAN, BECAUSE ONE THING I WOULD TELL YOU IS, IS THAT IF THEY FIGURED OUT HOW TO TURN UP THE BRIGHTNESS, THEY MAY COME INTO COMPLIANCE AND THEN THE MINUTE THEY PASS, SOMEBODY TURNS IT BACK UP AGAIN. 
          AND SO I JUST THINK YOU MIGHT, YOU KNOW, WANT TO MAYBE LESSEN THE AMOUNT OF INSPECTIONS DURING THE PILOT IF YOU HAVE TO, AND KEEP US NOT INCLUDE THE COUNTS FOR THE PEOPLE THAT GOT COMPLAINTS IN THE PILOT, BUT MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH RE THAT SOME OF THOSE RESOURCES ARE REALLY TARGETED AT THE PE THE OFFENDERS YOU NEED TO SPEAK IN. 
          UM, HOW MANY COMPLAINTS DO YOU GET IN A COURSE OF SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR? ON, ON THESE? WE'VE GONE OVER THIS, I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER, 
          [00:10:01]
BUT SAY ON THE MAGNITUDE OVER FIVE YEARS, I THINK WE WENT OUT FOR ABOUT 80 ON, ON ROUGHLY, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN A HUNDRED OVER FIVE YEARS, YOU KNOW. 
          BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHAT WE'VE LEARNED FROM THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS IN DISCUSSING THIS, IT, IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY MORE OF AN ERROR OF NOT KNOWING WHAT TO DO. 
          COMMUNITY MEMBER GOES OUT TO SEE A BRIGHT SIGN, BUT THEY HAVE NO, YOU KNOW, BEYOND REACHING OUT TO COUNSEL AND STUFF LIKE THAT, WHAT WE'RE GONNA ALSO DO IS EDUCATE. 
          SO WE ANTICIPATE PROBABLY GETTING A LOT MORE COMPLAINTS AS WE START GOING OUT EDUCATING, ADDING IT, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY TO 3 1 1, STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          SO IT ALLOWS OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO IMMEDIATELY SAY, I SEE A BRIGHT SIGN. 
          I WANT TO, YOU KNOW, PUT THAT IN IMMEDIATELY BEFORE I GET DISTRACTED DOING SOMETHING ELSE. 
          AND WE'RE GETTING NOTIFIED FOR IT. 
          SO THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS WE RECEIVE VERSUS THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS THAT ARE OUT THERE, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE A GOOD GAUGE OF, OF THAT'S ACCURATE. 
          UH, THE, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED IN FIVE YEARS. 
          I DON'T KNOW. 
          IT JUST SEEMS THAT IT'S NOT MUCH OF A PROBLEM. 
          AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GOING A LITTLE BIT OVERBOARD ON TRYING TO, UH, SOLVE A, SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T CURRENTLY EXIST. 
          BUT, WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S THE GOOD THING ABOUT THE PILOT PROGRAM. 
          IF WE DO 60 INDIVIDUAL SIGNS, YOU KNOW, ACROSS MULTIPLE INDUSTRIES, DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE CITY, WE CAN GET AN ASSESSMENT OF, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE 60 INSPECTIONS, IF ALL OF THEM PASSED, THEN YES, THAT HELPS US PROVIDE SOME DATA. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT, THIS MAY NOT BE A PROBLEM, UH, THROUGH THE EDUCATION, MAYBE WE CAN FIX IT. 
          BUT IF, IF 30 OF THEM FELL, THEN WE SEE THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, MAYBE THIS IS A PROBLEM. 
          BUT THAT'S THE GOAL OF THE PILOT PROGRAM IS, IS TO SEE IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE NEED OUT THERE, UH, FOR MORE PROACTIVE APPROACH. 
          YES, BIANCA, I JUST WANNA SAY THANK YOU BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS REALLY RESPONDING TO SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAD, UM, THAT CAME FROM A COUNCIL OFFICE WANTING TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF VIOLATIONS IN AN AREA, REPEAT OFFENDERS ALSO. 
          AND THEN, SO HOW DO YOU, AND THEY HAD RECEIVED COMPLAINTS, OBVIOUSLY NOT JUST THE, THE COUNCIL MEMBER HAD, HAD VISUALIZED THESE VIOLATIONS, BUT ALSO THEIR CONSTITUENTS. 
          AND UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE EXPENSE FOR THESE SIGNS, THEY, THEY ARE NOT EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED AMONGST COUNCIL DISTRICTS. 
          THEY ARE, UM, MORE PREVALENT IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE CITY. 
          AND SO I THANK YOU FOR THE PROACTIVENESS. 
          I THINK THIS IS REALLY GONNA BE AN EDUCATIONAL TOOL. 
          UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO, UM, WHEN WE WERE HAVING THE DIGITAL BILLBOARD DISCUSSION CONFUSE THE ON-PREMISE WITH THE OFF-PREMISE SIGN, AND WE SEE THE BAD ACTORS IN THE ON-PREMISE, NOT THE OFF-PREMISE. 
          AND SO THERE'S THAT CONSTANT CONFUSION OF UNDERSTANDING AND REALLY TRYING TO DELINEATE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE FOR AN ON-PREMISE AND THE STANDARDS FOR AN OFF-PREMISE SIGN AND HOW THOSE ARE BEING OPERATED IN OUR COMMUNITY. 
          UM, ONE THING I WOULD ASK, UH, FOR, MAYBE FOR STAFF TO CONSIDER IS THE 3 1 1 APP JUST UNDERWENT A WHOLE NEW REVAMP. 
          AND THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT I THINK MS. STALCUP WAS LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK TO INCLUDE. 
          THIS WOULD BE A GREAT ONE TO INCLUDE. 
          UM, BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT 3 1 1 ISN'T OPERATING AT NIGHT. 
          WHEN YOU DO SEE A VIOLATION OF BRIGHTNESS FOR, UM, UH, ON-PREMISE SIGNS FOR SOMEONE TO REPORT, IT'S NOT EASY. 
          YOU KNOW? 'CAUSE IT'S NOT IN THAT DROPDOWN MENU. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE MENUS, YOU'RE LIKE, WELL, WHAT IS THAT PERMITS? UH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, THERE'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT STICKS OUT THAT, THAT TRULY RELATES TO THIS ITEM. 
          AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, PHOTOS, A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL STOP AND TAKE PHOTOS OF THAT TOO. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, I CAN THINK OF THREE OR FOUR RIGHT NOW THAT ARE IN VIOLATION, BUT I DIDN'T CALL 'EM IN 'CAUSE IT WAS LATE AT NIGHT. 
          SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS WHERE IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU SEE THEM, YOU WANNA BE ABLE TO, TO SAY SOMETHING. 
          BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY EDUCATING PEOPLE BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, WHEN THOSE SIGNS GET INSTALLED, NEW OPERATORS COME TO MAINTAIN THOSE MANAGEMENT CHANGES. 
          AND SO IT'S JUST THE EDUCATION OF WHAT THAT BRIGHTNESS CAN DO TO OUR, UM, TO OUR C COMMUNITY AND ALSO TO OUR OVERALL POPULATION, ESPECIALLY ON THOSE MAJOR CORRIDORS. 
          SO THANK YOU FOR THIS. 
          YES MA'AM. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND YES, WE ARE GONNA LOOK AT THE 3 1 1 AS AN ADDITION ALONG WITH THE, UM, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC EDUCATION PROCESS. 
          AND IN YOUR DOCUMENTATION, WILL YOU INCLUDE ALL OF THE MEASUREMENTS EVEN IF THEY PASS? YES, MA'AM. 
          YEAH, THAT'S OUR TYPICAL, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE FROM ALL THE ONES IN THE COMPLAINTS AND PASS AND FAIL OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS. 
          SO WE'LL DO ALL THAT. 
          AND THAT'S KIND OF, YEAH. 
          SO HERE REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS TWO INDIVIDUALS GOING OUT FOR SIX HOURS, UM, ON OVERTIME. 
          BUT DURING THE, DURING THE WEEK, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE SOMEBODY TASKED WITH FINDING THE LOCATION DURING THE WEEK AND THEN ALSO DOCUMENTING. 
          SO WE ANTICIPATE BEING ABOUT 10 HOUR WEEKLY, UM, COST AT THIS TIME AS PART OF THE PILOT PROGRAM. 
          I, I THINK THAT'LL HELP BECAUSE IT'LL HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT THE THRESHOLD IS THAT PEOPLE PERCEIVE THAT IT'S TOO BRIGHT, BUT IT'S WITHIN CODE. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT IN VIOLATION. 
          BUT WHAT IS THE PERCEPTION OF TOO BRIGHT? YES. 
          AND THAT, AND WE DO HAVE ALL THAT DATA FROM ALL THE COMPLAINT ONES THAT CAME IN THAT WE KNOW WHERE WE DID HAVE THE, THE 50% FAILURE. 
          UM, AND WE HAVE ALL THOSE NUMBERS, EVERY, EVERY NUMBER FROM ALL THOSE COMPLAINTS. 
          AND HAPPY TO KIND OF DIV THROUGH THAT AS PART OF THIS PILOT PROGRAM AS WELL. 
          [00:15:01]
SO JUST TO CLARIFY YOU ANY, WELL, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU COLLECT THE DATA ON THE BRIGHTNESS OF EVERY CALL YOU MEASURE, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO KNOW IF THEY ARE WAY OUT OF LINE OR, YOU KNOW, TWO, TWO OF THE TESTS PASSED AND ONE FAILED. 
          BECAUSE THEN YOU MAY NEED TO TWEAK IT EITHER WAY. 
          CORRECT. 
          UH, WE DO, WE, WE'VE, WE CONTAIN, WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION. 
          WE'LL CONTINUE TO TAKE THAT INFORMATION AND, AND COLLECT IT AND USE THAT FOR ANY ANALYSIS. 
          THANK YOU SIR. 
          NEXT ITEM. 
          OH, ALRIGHT. 
          UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE. 
          UH, THIS IS, UH, AMENDED ITEM SEVEN DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO AMEND ARTICLE FOUR, DIVISION TWO, SUBDIVISION SUBDIVISION, FIVE OFF-PREMISE SIGNS TO PERMIT SIGN BUILDERS TO CONVERT EXISTING 14 BY 48 FOOT STATIC FACE SIGNS OR PRINTED STATIC, UH, FACE SIGNS TO DIGITAL SIGNS ALONG LIMITED HIGHWAYS WITHIN THE CITY. 
          SO THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL PROPOSED, UH, REQUEST THAT CAME IN. 
          UH, FROM THERE WE CREATED THE WORKING GROUP. 
          AFTER MEETING WITH THIS COMMITTEE, UH, THE FIRST TIME BACK IN, I WANNA SAY JULY, UH, THAT THAT WORKING GROUP MET MANY TIMES, I WANT TO, UH, THINK ABOUT FIVE OR SIX, UH, WORKING GROUP MEETINGS SO FAR. 
          UH, THEY DEVELOPED A DRAFT PROPOSAL THAT I SENT OUT TO EVERYBODY PRIOR TO THIS MEETING. 
          I'M HAPPY TO PULL IT UP. 
          WE CAN LOOK AT IT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I, RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS, I DON'T THINK WE'RE LOOKING FOR A YES OR NO, UH, APPROVED OR NOT APPROVED UNLESS THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THE COMMITTEE'S JUST COMPLETELY AGAINST US MOVING FORWARD. 
          BUT THE GOAL IS TO, TO KIND OF DIGEST THAT PROPOSED DRAFT THAT'S BEEN SENT OUT, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN TO THIS COMMITTEE. 
          BUT WE ALSO SEND IT OUT TO ALL THE, THE CONTRACTORS THAT HOLD, UH, OFF-PREMISE BILLBOARD LICENSES. 
          UH, WE SUBMITTED IT OUT, UH, THROUGHOUT OUR, UH, COMMUNITY MEETINGS THAT WE HAD THROUGHOUT FEBRUARY, OR I'M SORRY, JANUARY. 
          UH, WE HAVE IT ON OUR WEBSITE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FOR AS MUCH INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE. 
          WE ALSO HAVE THE SURVEY THAT'S CURRENTLY OUT THERE. 
          UH, WE'VE HAD ABOUT A HUNDRED RESPONSES. 
          I'M HAPPY TO PULL THAT SURVEY UP AND, AND KIND OF LOOK AT THAT, UH, AS A COMMITTEE HERE, UH, WE HAVE THAT SURVEY THAT'S GONNA GO, IT'S GONNA GO OUT THROUGH FEBRUARY 28TH. 
          UH, SO THAT'S, UH, WE, WE'VE GOT IT SET. 
          UH, WE TALKED WITH, UH, DISTRICT EIGHT AND EVERYBODY ELSE, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS GONNA STAY OPEN UNTIL FEBRUARY 28TH. 
          SO THE QUEST RIGHT NOW FROM STAFF TO THIS COMMITTEE IS IF THERE'S AN APPETITE TO MOVE FORWARD, THEN WE WILL SPEND THE TIME AND WORK, UH, WITH OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT TO ACTUALLY CODIFY, UH, WHAT WE HAVE AS KIND OF A DRAFT PROPOSAL, UH, AND GUIDELINES, UH, FOR THIS PROPOSAL, UH, YOU KNOW, CONVERSION OF PRINTED STATIC, UH, TO A DIGITAL SIGN. 
          SO AT THAT POINT, I GUESS I'LL HAND IT OVER TO THE CHAIR. 
          YOU LET ME KNOW WHAT, HOW FAR YOU WANT ME TO GO DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE AT THIS TIME. 
          YEAH, FIRST I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYBODY WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE FIVE OR SIX MEETINGS. 
          UH, IT WAS, UH, I THINK A GOOD WORKING GROUP WHERE EVERYBODY WAS SEARCHING FOR COMPROMISE. 
          AND I BELIEVE WE GOT THAT. 
          UH, WE WENT ALL OVER THE PLACE AS TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN, WHO SHOULD GET THE PERMITS, HOW YOU FARE YOU'RE FAIR TO EVERYBODY. 
          AND I THINK, UH, WE CAME UP WITH A GOOD COMPROMISE, YOU KNOW, JUST FOR EVERYBODY WHO WASN'T PART OF THE PROCESS, UH, IT'S BASICALLY STARTS AT A FOUR TO ONE CONVERSION RATE AND THEN THERE IS EXTRA CREDIT GIVEN WHERE YOU CAN LOWER THE AMOUNT OF CREDITS REQUIRED TO MAKE THE CHANGE OUT IF YOU'RE TAKING DOWN SIGNS IN ONE OF, YOU KNOW, FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT AREAS. 
          SO ONE WOULD BE, AND I THINK WE CALLED IT THE DOWNTOWN U, WHICH WOULD BE I 10 OVER HERE. 
          I 35 ON THAT SIDE OF DOWNTOWN, 37 THIS WAY, BASICALLY THROUGH THE DOWNTOWN AREA. 
          AND THEN, UH, THE HISTORIC CORRIDOR THAT EXISTS ON, UH, EITHER I 10 OR HIGHWAY 90, WHICHEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT. 
          THAT'S THE MISSION AREA. 
          THEN HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND, UH, SOME OTHER AREAS. 
          SO I THINK THE EFFORT WAS, IS TO TRY TO GET, UH, SIGNS TAKEN DOWN WHERE PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM TAKEN DOWN AND GIVING THE SIGN THE BILLBOARD INDUSTRY SOME INCENTIVE TO TARGET THOSE AREAS. 
          AND THEN IN, YOU KNOW, WE SET A LIMIT OF HOW MANY COME DOWN PER YEAR AND HOW THOSE ARE ALLOCATED AMONG THE COMPANIES. 
          AND, UH, BASICALLY THE LARGER COMPANIES GET MOST OF THE ALLOCATION BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONLY ONES THAT CAN MEET THE TAKE DOWN REQUIREMENTS TO DO THAT. 
          BUT NOT PROHIBITING THE SMALLER COMPANIES FROM GROUPING 
          [00:20:01]
TOGETHER AND MAKING SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT TO, UH, BE A PARTNERSHIP WHERE THEY, UH, TAKE A SIGN DOWN AND, UH, THEY ALL SHARE SOMEHOW WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, BUT THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THE ORDINANCE HOW THEY GET TO THAT. 
          AND SO, UH, I THINK IT WAS A GREAT COMPROMISE ON EVERYBODY IF YOU HAVE, UH, I REDRAFTED IT BASED UPON KIND OF PUTTING THINGS IN WHAT I CALL SOME KIND OF LOGICAL ORDER AS WE MOVE DOWN THE THING. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON 'EM, JUST EMAIL 'EM TO JEREMY AND YOU KNOW, I WAS VERY CAREFUL NOT TO ADD ANYTHING OR JUST, BASICALLY IT'S JUST CLARIFICATIONS AND MOVING, UH, THINGS AROUND. 
          SO IT, THERE WAS SOME SEMBLANCE OF ORDER SO THAT WHEN, UH, WHOEVER GETS TO DRAFT IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S IN ORDER. 
          COLLEEN, YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YES. 
          ARE, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, ARE WE COMBINING ITEMS THREE AND FOUR? I I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME. 
          SO IF YOU CAN, WHAT IS ITEM THREE? SO ITEM FOUR WAS COLLEEN'S, UM, PROPOSAL THAT CAME IN. 
          TAKE MY NAME OFF OF IT 'CAUSE IT'S NO LONGER MINE. 
          . 
          OKAY, THAT'S FINE. 
          I AGREE. 
          THAT'S WHERE THAT WHOLE THING STARTED. 
          BUT YEAH, I MEAN, I PUT IT ON THERE. 
          I I UNDERSTAND. 
          I MEAN THE, THE, WHAT IT CAME ON WAS KIND OF, UH, THE, THIS TWOFOLD ON THIS PROPOSAL FOR ITEM NUMBER THREE, UH, FOUR, YOU KNOW, IT WAS KIND OF, I, I DON'T KNOW IF PIGGYBACK IS THE RIGHT WORD, BUT IT IS, I THINK IN RESPONSE TO THIS REQUEST, UM, THE REQUEST ON THAT PROPOSED AMENDMENT WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO MAKE IT AS, AS EQUITABLE ACROSS ALL THE SIGN INDUSTRY, UH, PARTICIPANTS AS POSSIBLE. 
          AND THEN ALSO, UH, SPACING. 
          NOW I THINK IT'S MY OPINION THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, WE DISCUSSED THESE DURING THOSE WORKING GROUPS. 
          I FEEL LIKE IT'S ENVELOPED INTO THE PROPOSAL. 
          SO I, I JUST WANTED TO PUT IT ON THERE SO WE CAN MAKE A FORMAL, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN WITHDRAW OR, OR HOWEVER WE WANNA DO IT. 
          IT'S JUST, IT WAS A PROPOSED ITEM OUT THERE THAT WE HAVEN'T ADDRESSED AT THIS COMMITTEE YET. 
          SO I PUT IT ON THERE AS AN ACTIONABLE ITEM SO WE CAN ADDRESS IT AND TAKE CARE OF IT. 
          SO YOUR ITEM, AND I AGREE, IT NEEDS TO MOVE FORWARD. 
          DEFINITELY. 
          I MEAN, WE WORKED TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE ENDED UP WITH SO FAR. 
          I AGREE WITH THAT. 
          SO, SO MY QUESTION GOES BACK TO ITEM THREE, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS MATT'S PROPOSAL. 
          I AT THIS, AT THIS POINT, THE, THE DIGITAL CONVERSION IS WHAT I WOULD CALL THE SIGN WORKING GROUP'S PRODUCT. 
          SO I THINK WE SHOULD, I THINK ITEM THREE AND ITEM FOUR, IT'S ALL IN THERE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND SO WE PROBABLY SHOULD TAKE PEOPLE'S NAMES OFF OF IT AND, AND JUST IF THERE'S CONSENSUS AMONG EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM, AND WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE A VOTE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PRODUCT IS GOING, I, I THINK THERE'S CONSENSUS THAT THE, THE PRODUCT SHOULD GO FORWARD. 
          AND THE PEOPLE THAT SUBMITTED THREE AND FOUR, THOSE IDEAS HAVE BEEN ENCAPSULATED INTO THE WORK PRODUCT AND ARE JUST SHELVED IN LIEU OF THE WORK PRODUCT. 
          JUST LIKE WHAT SUBCOMMITTEE? YEAH. 
          YEAH, CORRECT. 
          YEAH, I MEAN, ONCE AGAIN, I, I, I MEAN THAT WAS JUST A PROPOSAL. 
          THERE IS NO RULE, LIKE BEYOND THE DOCUMENT THAT WE GOT TO INITIATE THIS CONVERSATION. 
          THERE IS NO OWNERSHIP BEYOND THAT. 
          UM, AND WE DON'T BRING IT UP ON ANY, ANYTHING WE CODIFY WILL NOT BE, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE, UH, BEYOND THAT. 
          SO WE'RE GONNA PUT YOUR NAME ON THE PROPOSAL. 
           , JIM, A LITTLE VALENTINE'S HUMOR TODAY. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO WITH THE CONSENSUS OF THE GROUP THREE AND FOUR ARE OFF THE LIST AND HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY SUBSTITUTING THE COMMITTEE'S, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE'S WORK. 
          AND I THINK THERE'S CONSENSUS TO MOVE FORWARD WHATEVER NEEDS TO BE DONE. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND USING A MIC SITTING HERE, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SIT AT THE TABLE. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, MY ONLY QUESTION WAS PLEASE USE THE MICROPHONE. 
          YOU GOTTA PRESS THE, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. 
          PRESS THE BUTTON BUTTON. 
          YOU GOTTA HOLD IT. 
          YOU GOTTA HOLD IT OUT. 
          YOU GOTTA HOLD IT. 
          HOLD IT OUT. 
          UM, I'M WITH LAMAR ADVERTISING. 
          MY NAME'S ALAN REER AND I WE'RE KIND OF GETTING INTO THIS THING A LITTLE LATER ON AND IT'S, THAT'S OUR FAULT. 
          AND I'M SORRY FOR BEING LATE TODAY, BUT YOU MIGHT'VE REFERRED TO IT. 
          BUT HOW DO YOU TREAT, UH, DEMOLITION PERMITS AND TAKE DOWNS PRIOR TO THIS POINT IN TIME? BECAUSE I HAVE TWO OR THREE LOCATIONS WHERE WE HAVE REMOVED THE STRUCTURE AND I WANTED TO KNOW IF THEY, THEY WILL BE COUNTED. 
          NO, AT THIS POINT. 
          [00:25:01]
THOSE WOULD NOT BE COUNTED. 
          THOSE ARE STILL GOOD TO BE USED TOWARDS ANY RELOCATION PERMIT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE. 
          UH, BUT ALL DIGITAL PERMITS WOULD OFF TO BE KIND OF CONCISE AT ONE TIME. 
          KIND OF AN ANNUAL APPROACH. 
          HERE ARE THE FOUR BILLBOARDS OR MORE IF NEEDED, DEPENDING ON, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT BASED ON STRUCTURE, IT'S BASED ON SQUARE FOOTAGE. 
          BUT WHATEVER STRUCTURE YOU DO APPROACH, YOU HAVE TO TAKE DOWN THAT FULL STRUCTURE. 
          SO IT COULD JUST BE A SINGLE PHASE OF A STRUCTURE, BUT ULTIMATELY THE FOUR TO ONE IS A, UM, SQUARE FOOTAGE. 
          SO IF YOU WANNA PUT UP 625 SQUARE FOOT OF DIGITAL, IT'D HAVE TO BE THAT 2,500 SQUARE FOOT OF, OF, OF STATIC OR PRINTED. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE SMALLER SIGNS, YOU MIGHT NEED TO DO MORE TO REACH THAT, TO REACH THAT 2,500. 
          BUT THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE KIND OF, I SPECIFICALLY TOOK DOWN THESE SIGNS, UH, BILLBOARDS FOR THIS DIGITAL CONVERSION. 
          SO ANYTHING THAT'S BANK CURRENTLY WOULD ONLY STILL BE ALLOWED TO BE USED TOWARDS YOUR RELOCATION PERMITS ONLY. 
          SO FOR A STATIC CAN HERE, JUST HOLD ON ONE SECOND. 
          RELOCATION FOR A STATIC. 
          THAT IS CORRECT. 
          YES. 
          SO LET, LET ME ASK A QUESTION. 
          RATHER THAN HAVING NEW STATIC SIGNS BEING PUT UP, WHAT Y'ALL'S FEELING ON LETTING PEOPLE, AND BECAUSE WE REALLY, I DON'T REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS, BUT I MISSED ONE OF THE MEETINGS, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DID LETTING THOSE CREDITS BE USED TOWARDS THE CONVERSION RATHER THAN HAVING A NEW SIGN POP UP THAT THEY COULD PUT UP SOMEPLACE ELSE. 
          I THINK THEY ALREADY HAVE THE RIGHT, NO, NO, NO. 
          I KNOW THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT IT UP, BUT IF WE CAN KEEP IT FROM GOING UP BY ALLOWING THEM TO BE USED FOR THE CONVERSION, WOULD THAT BE A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING? AND I, I HAVE NO FEELING EITHER WAY, BUT I JUST, MR. CHAIR, I THINK YOU ALREADY CAN, THERE, THERE, THERE'S NO DELINEATION. 
          WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A, A REMOVAL OR A TAKE DOWN. 
          A SIGN IS A SIGN AS A SIGN. 
          SO WHETHER IT'S USED AS A TWO FOR ONE IN THE RELOCATION ORDINANCE, OR IT'S USED AS ONE OF THE FOUR IN A NEW BILLBOARD, THERE'S NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN THEM. 
          A SIGN IS SIGN AS A SIGN. 
          NO, THE INTENT IS YOU WOULD JUST DEFINE THAT AND WHY PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BIGGEST ISSUE,  THE BIGGEST ISSUE, AND I, YOU KNOW, AND I, I THINK THIS IS WHERE THE COMMUNITY, AND THIS IS WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM THE COMMUNITY, I DON'T WANNA PUT MANY WORDS IN, BUT THIS WHOLE THING HAS BEEN ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE, I TOOK DOWN THESE FOUR SIGNS FOR A DIGITAL, THAT THAT CURRENCY, IF IT'S ALREADY GONE, IF WE PASS THIS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN DIGITAL SIGNS ARE GOING UP AND THOSE SIGNS ARE COMING DOWN, THE PERSPECTIVE IS, SO I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT I HIGHLIGHT THAT, HEY, THERE'S, THERE ARE 20, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD'VE TO DO A DEEP DIVE OF ALL THE PERMITS THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE AND PUT THOSE OUT THERE AND SAY, LOOK, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ALREADY 20 SIGNS THAT COULD BE USED TO TOWARDS CONVERSION. 
          WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE PERSPECTIVE IS YES, WE TOOK DOWN SIGNS, BUT EVERYTHING WE'RE SELLING TO THE PUBLIC RIGHT NOW AND PUSHING FORWARD IS THESE ARE FUTURE TAKE DOWNS, NOT EXISTING. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO, SO ALL WE'RE SAYING, ALL YOU'RE SAYING, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING, AND I THINK WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE HERE, IS IF THIS GOES INTO, INTO, UH, EFFECT SEPTEMBER 1ST OF 23, WE ONLY START COUNTING SIGNS THAT ARE TAKEN DOWN SEPTEMBER 1ST OR AFTER, CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          YEAH, NO, WE'RE, THAT'S FINE. 
          THAT'S WHERE WE'RE NOW WAS RIGHT HERE. 
          ANY BANKED TIME OUT. 
          SO MY QUESTION IS TO THE COMMUNITY IS IS IT A GOOD IDEA OR A BAD IDEA TO ADDRESS THAT? AND I HAVE NO FEELING EITHER WAY, YOU KNOW, TO KEEP NEW SIGNS FROM COM, NEW STATIC SIGN BECAUSE TECHNICALLY YOU COULD USE THE PERMIT TO RELOCATE IT, PUT A BRAND NEW SIGN UP, AND THEN TAKE IT DOWN IMMEDIATELY FOR THE CONVERSION. 
          AND SO SIX SIGNS, 2, 2, 2 FOR THE RELOCATION AND FOUR MORE FOR THE DISTRICT, SIX SIGNS IN THAT DIRECTION. 
          NO, NO. 
          SO WHAT, WHAT MY QUESTION IS, IS DO WE WANNA KEEP NEW SIGNS FROM GOING UP? BECAUSE THE CREDITS ALREADY EXIST. 
          BIANCA, ANY ORDINANCE IS AN ENACT, ENACT AND THE PROVISION IS ALLOWED, THAT IS WHEN THE SIGN SHOULD COUNT. 
          SO, SO REMOVAL, OKAY. 
          OUT A SIGN. 
          I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD SIT HERE AND START SAYING, WELL, LET'S GO BACK A YEAR. 
          THEY HAD A PERMIT TWO YEARS AGO. 
          UM, WE'VE BEEN HAVING THIS DISCUSSION FOR A VERY LONG TIME. 
          AND SO THEY PROBABLY HAVE SIGNS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT TAKING DOWN THAT THEY'RE NOT TAKING DOWN RIGHT NOW IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS ORDINANCE. 
          I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE OTHER, UM, COME TO THE TABLE NOW IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE SOME IN THE, IN THE PROCESS, BUT I'M SORRY, YOU'VE REALLY GOTTA BE TRANSPARENT TO THE COMMUNITY. 
          I NO, THAT'S, I'M GOOD WITH JEREMY. 
          [00:30:01]
TOTALLY HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WHEN HE EXPLAINED IT. 
          NO, I'M, LAST TIME THERE WAS JUST, I, I JUST WANNA REITERATE, THERE WAS JUST A LOT OF CONCERN THAT PEOPLE COULD NOT IDENTIFY WHERE THE TAKE DOWNS OCCURRED WHEN THOSE NEW DIGITALS WENT UP. 
          AND SO WHILE THEY'RE TIED TO THE PERMIT, NOT EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW TO GO IN AND DIG INTO HANSSEN AND, YOU KNOW, THE OLD SYSTEM AND PULL ALL THE PERMITS THAT WERE TIED TO THOSE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS AND THE LOCATIONS THAT WENT DOWN. 
          SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE DELIBERATE IN THE MESSAGE THAT WE'RE GIVING THE COMMUNITY THAT WE TRULY, UM, CARE ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT THESE ARE HAVING. 
          BECAUSE THE WHOLE GOAL IS TO REMOVE, YOU KNOW, A SATURATION IN SOME AREAS TOO WITH THE NEW BILLBOARD. 
          AND SO WITH, WITH THE, THE ABILITY TO ALLOW A DIGITAL BILLBOARD. 
          SO I THINK IT'S ALSO IN THE MESSAGING OF WHAT THE INTENT IS BEHIND THE ORDINANCE. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, AND THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING TO THE TABLE. 
          I THANK LAMAR FOR COMING. 
          WE OBVIOUSLY ASKED STAFF MULTIPLE TIMES TO REACH OUT TO THEM BECAUSE WE KNEW YOU WEREN'T HERE WHEN ALL THIS BEGAN. 
          AND, AND WE'RE THANKFUL THAT YOU'RE HERE AND YOU KNOW, REALLY HOPE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU UNDERSTAND THE INTENTION BEHIND THIS AND WHY THE, THE DIRECTION IS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S TRULY YOU WANT EVERYTHING TIED TOGETHER. 
          YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO GO PULL BACK AND PULL IT ALL TOGETHER, ROLL FORWARD. 
          SO I JUST, I HATE TO BEAT THE DRUM ON THIS, BUT I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          IF YOU AGREE, JUST YES, NO, I AGREE. 
          OKAY, PERFECT. 
          SO WE'RE LEAVING IT LIKE, IT IS, SO IT ONLY, THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE ORDINANCE. 
          YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO THAT IF YOU REALLY WANTED, YOU COULD PUT UP A, YOU KNOW, USE YOUR TWO CREDITS TO PUT UP A BRAND NEW SIGN AND THEN SOMETIME LATER TAKE IT DOWN TO GET THE, THE CREDIT. 
          BUT I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, NOT REALLY GONNA HAPPEN 'CAUSE THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA GO THROUGH THAT EXPENSE. 
          COUNTERPOINT TO THAT IS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A BRAND NEW SIGN, OTHERWISE YOU'RE JUST GONNA HAVE A CONVERSION OF ONE DIGITAL PHASE, A ONE STATIC TO A DIGITAL. 
          SO YOU'RE NOT ADDING ANY SIGNAGE. 
          NOW, I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IF THIS, BUT IN THIS CASE THEN WE'RE GONNA JUST BUILD A NEW 14 BY 48. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH, I MEAN MY THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, ON THIS WOULD BE WITH IT BEING KIND OF A TRIAL PERIOD, WE'RE ADDING A THREE YEAR, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENT. 
          THIS IS ONLY GOES FOR THREE YEARS AND THEN IT HAS TO BE REEVALUATED. 
          UH, I THINK WE'LL PROBABLY PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT FORCES US TO SIT DOWN, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE, AFTER THE SECOND YEAR SO THAT IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, ANY GAP. 
          IT'S KINDA LIKE, ARE WE GONNA MOVE FORWARD OR NOT AND KIND OF HASH THAT OUT AND GO TO COUNCIL BEFORE THE END OF THAT THIRD YEAR. 
          THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WE LOOK AT AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, AT THAT POINT. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, WE GET A GAUGE OF THE CITIZENS AND HOW THIS PROGRAM IS WORKING. 
          THEN THERE MIGHT BE SOME, SOME THOUGHTS OF, YOU KNOW WHAT, OKAY, YOU GOT THESE BANKS, I'D RATHER NOT SEE A NEW ONE GO UP AND JUST PUT A DIGITAL UP. 
          BUT FOR THIS ONE, BEHIND IT BEING THE INITIAL, THE TAKE ON IT, THE BIG PUSH IS FOUR TAKE DOWNS FOR THE ONE. 
          UH, BUT IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WE CAN REEVALUATE AT THAT THREE YEAR MARK AS WELL. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THE ONE COUPLE OF SUGGESTIONS FROM JUST HEARING THE COMMENTS IS ONE IS, UH, D S D NEEDS TO DO A BETTER JOB POSSIBLY OF PUTTING WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS ON THE WEBSITE TO SAY, OKAY, DIGITAL BILLBOARD WENT UP HERE, HERE'S THE CALCULATION OF THE SIGNS THAT CAME DOWN SO THAT THE COMMUNITY HAS AN EASY WAY TO DO THAT. 
          OR YEAH, WE CAN SEE THAT. 
          DEFINITELY TRACK THAT AND, AND THEN LOG THAT. 
          THE OTHER THING, UH, IS JUST TO, YOU KNOW, A RATHER WHEN IS THE NEXT CYCLE FOR THIS TO HAPPEN? WE'RE GONNA FOLLOW WITH U D C. 
          SO IN FIVE YEARS, SO THE U D C WILL BE THE 2028. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO FIVE YEARS. 
          SO, SO WE WILL DO THIS SIGN DEAL, I GUESS AGAIN IN THREE YEARS AND THEN TWO YEARS AFTER THAT. 
          'CAUSE IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO, IS THIS THE BILLBOARDS GOING, THE CONVERSION IS PART OF THE SIGN ORDINANCE? CORRECT. 
          IT WILL BE ALL PART OF CHAPTER 28 UPDATE. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT I THINK ONCE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA LOOK AT THIS SPECIFICALLY KIND OF OUTSIDE OF THAT NORMAL PROCESS. 
          OKAY. 
          TO SEE, SO THIS, THIS ITEM WILL BE RECON REVISITED SOMEWHERE IN THE TWO TO THREE YEAR PERIOD. 
          AND THEN, UH, FOR CHANGES, IF EVERYBODY AGREES THAT IT'S WORKING WELL, IT MAY GO FURTHER, IT MAY GET TWEAKED ALONG THE WAY IF IT'S NOT WORKING. 
          SO, UH, BUT THEN IT WILL GO ONCE WE GET IT WORKED OUT EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S REVIEWED, IT'LL BE ON THE REGULAR U D C CYCLE QUESTIONS. 
          OKAY. 
          NEXT ITEM. 
          OKAY, SO THREE AND FOUR. 
          SO ONCE AGAIN, AND NOW I'LL SEND THIS OUT. 
          THIS IS JUST A LINK TO ALL THE SURVEY. 
          UH, SO ONCE AGAIN, I WASN'T SURE WHICH Y'ALL WANTED TO LOOK AT. 
          UH, BUT I'LL SEND THAT OUT TO ANYBODY. 
          UM, I THINK YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GO TO THE SURVEY, I THINK YOU CAN GO AND LOOK AT THE RESULTS AND, AND REVIEW ALL THE RESPONSES THAT WE'VE HAD. 
          UH, BUT I'LL HAPPY TO SEND THAT OUT TO THIS FULL COMMITTEE AND EVERY, ALL THE ATTENDEES THAT WE'VE BEEN ADDING. 
          AND THEN ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS 
          [00:35:01]
ITEM NUMBER FOUR. 
          UM, I GUESS REAL QUICK, YOU KNOW, DO WE WANNA TAKE ACTION ON THIS ONE IN THE SENSE, DO WE STILL NEED THIS ONE OR DO WE FEEL LIKE IT'S COVERED WELL ENOUGH WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO? OR DO YOU WANNA KEEP IT AND TAKE ACTION ON BOTH THREE AND FOUR? IS THIS THE ONE, IS THIS YOURS? THIS IS THE ONE THAT CAME A RESPONSE. 
          I'M JUST, THIS IS JUST A COLLEEN, COLLEEN HAS WITHDRAWN HER DEAL, CORRECT? I DON'T KNOW IF THIS, THIS IS NOW A COMMITTEE FROM . 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          I I, I DON'T THINK WE NEED A MOTION UNLESS WE HAVE TO. 
          I THINK THERE IS CONSENSUS  AMONG THE GROUP THAT THREE AND FOUR WERE TAKEN OVER BY THE WORKING GROUP AND THE WORKING GROUP CAME BACK. 
          OKAY. 
          AND THEN WHAT WE'LL DO IS WHEN WE TAKE A FINAL ACTION ON THIS APPROACH, WE'LL JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE KIND OF JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, THESE TWO ITEMS ARE BEING ADDRESSED UNDER THAT MOTION WHEN WE GET TO IT. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT WORKS FOR ME. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          UM, ITEM NUMBER FIVE. 
          UH, THIS IS ONE WE TALKED ABOUT IN LAST DECEMBER. 
          UH, TALKED ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THAT. 
          THIS IS MOVING INTO SMALL SIGNS. 
          SO FROM 625 FOOT SIGNS TO TWO BY THREE SIGNS. 
          UM, THIS IS A ANNUAL PERMIT REQUEST THAT ALLOWS, THERE'S TWO EXCEPTIONS TO THE SMALL TEMPORARY SIGN PERMIT REQUIREMENTS THAT WE ARE PROPOSING. 
          AND I'LL PULL THOSE UP HERE SHORTLY. 
          UH, BUT ONE IS SPECIFIC TO PRETTY MUCH ANY, ANY PROPERTY OWNER, UH, THROUGHOUT THE CITY THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO PULL A PERMIT SIGN, UH, GET AN ANNUAL PERMIT AND BE ABLE TO INSTALL SMALL SIGNS, LARGE AND HIGH. 
          THE SIZE IS USUALLY TWO AND A HALF BY THREE AT THE LARGEST. 
          I THINK THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT SMALLER THAN THAT. 
          UH, BUT KIND OF THE LITTLE PLACARD SIGNS THAT YOU SEE THROUGHOUT THE CITY. 
          AND THEN THE OTHER ONE IS SPECIFIC TO, UM, HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS OR REGISTERED NEIGHBORHOODS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          SO LEMME PULL UP THE, UH, PROPOSED LANGUAGE FOR THAT AND WHY, WHILE YOU'RE PULLING IT UP, UH, I WANNA GET, I ASKED SOME QUESTIONS THIS MORNING AND I JUST WANNA SHARE THAT. 
          SO THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO FOR LEASE OR FOR SALE SIGNS BECAUSE THAT'S COVERED IN A DIFFERENT AREA OF THE CODE. 
          AND THEN WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, I TALKED WITH STAFF BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE PUTTING YOUR NAME AND PERMIT NUMBER ON IT IS EASILY COUNTERFEITED, SO IT MAKES IT HARD ON THE CITY TO KNOW IF IT'S LEGITIMATE. 
          SO THIS MORNING IN TALKING WITH JEREMY AND ART, WE CAME UP WITH A, WHAT I THINK IS A BETTER PROPOSAL THAT I WANT BEFORE WE GET INTO THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE, TALK ABOUT THE WHOLE ISSUE IS, AND I'LL START WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION WOULD TAKE OUT A PERMIT THEY WOULD GET, RATHER THAN THEM HAVING TO PRINT THEIR NAME AND PERMIT ON THE SIGN AND THE CITY INSPECTOR HAVING THEN TO GO LOOK UP THE PERMIT NUMBER TO MAKE SURE IT'S LEGIT IS ARE CAN YOU HOLD UP THE, OR JUST PASS 'EM AROUND. 
          THEY, THEY WOULD, THE CITY WOULD DEVELOP A PERMIT STICKER FOR THESE KIND, BOTH OF THESE KIND OF SIGNS. 
          IT WOULD SAY 2023, THE STICKER WOULD HAVE TO BE PLACED ON THE SIGN THAT'S GOING UP BECAUSE THE INSPECTOR THEN WILL KNOW THIS IS AN OFFICIAL DEAL. 
          THEY'VE GOTTEN THE PERMIT. 
          AND BASICALLY THE COMPROMISE IS, IS, YOU KNOW, YOU GET A PERMIT, YOU WOULD GET, YOU KNOW, 25 OR 50 STICKERS WHEN YOU GET THE PERMIT, YOU PUT IT ON THE SIGN, YOU CAN PUT THE SIGN UP. 
          OKAY. 
          AND IF YOU GET IT IN JANUARY, YOU GET 12 MONTHS. 
          IF YOU GET IT IN DECEMBER, YOU GET ONE MONTH. 
          BUT BECAUSE THE COST IS RELATIVELY NOMINAL, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. 
          BUT THAT WOULD ALLOW THE SIGN INSPECTOR TO KNOW THAT THIS SIGN IS OFFICIAL, WHICH MEANS IT WOULD BE NO DIFFERENT, IT, IT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT STICKER THAN LIKE THE ONESIES THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY PUTS UP FOR A GARAGE SALE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. 
          BUT IT WOULD BE EASY FOR THEM TO IDENTIFY THAT IT IS LEGIT. 
          SO I THINK THAT IS THE IDEA. 
          WE'RE GONNA RUN THROUGH UP THE FLAGPOLE ON THIS. 
          YOU KNOW, IF YOU GET 50, YOU KNOW, THEY COST ABOUT 31 TO 50 CENTS TO DO, YOU GET 50 OF 'EM. 
          SO THE, THE, THE STICKERS TO THE PERSON, THE CITY COSTS ABOUT 15 BUCKS. 
          THERE'S ABOUT A $35 LEFT OVER TO COVER WHATEVER THE COST IS OF, OF ISSUING 'EM. 
          WE WOULD PUT IT UP IN SOME ONLINE APPLICATION, 
          [00:40:02]
YOU KNOW, WHERE SOMEBODY COULD DO THIS REMOTELY OFF OF THE INTERNET AND IT HAS A NUMBER HERE. 
          AND THE CITY WOULD SAY WE ISSUED, YOU KNOW, STICKER NUMBER ONE THROUGH STICKER NUMBER 50 TO THIS GROUP. 
          SO WE WOULD BE ABLE TO TRACK WHO GOT WHICH ONE AND THAT IT'S IN THE RIGHT PLACE IF THEY NEEDED TO. 
          AND THAT SEEMS TO BE A WHOLE LOT EASIER ON EVERYBODY THAN ME CREATING A STICKER THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, X, Y, Z BUSINESS, THIS IS THE PERMIT NUMBER. 
          AND THEN THE CITY HAS TO GO ENTER INTO THEIR COMPUTER TO SEE THAT IT'S RIGHT. 
          SOMETHING OFFICIAL WOULD BE EASIER ON EVERYBODY. 
          AND I, AND I TOLD JEREMY THAT I AS A BUSINESS PERSON, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS THE FEE IS NOMINAL AND COVERS WHAT THE EXPENSE, YOU KNOW, THE CITY HAS, YOU KNOW, I REALLY DON'T CARE IF I HAVE TO PAY $50 FOR ONE MONTH OR YOU KNOW, I GET A WHOLE YEAR IF WE, WE ARE LATE TO THE GAME AND DECIDE IN DECEMBER, WE WANNA START PUTTING THESE THINGS OUT BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN THE BIG SCHEME OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GONNA HIT THE RADAR. 
          YEAH. 
          ANY COMMENTS ON THAT COLLEEN? A SO COULD THESE BE, I'M SORRY, COLLEEN, COULD THESE BE ISSUED TO INDIVIDUALS OR IT HAS TO BE A REGISTERED HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION OR BUSINESS? IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ISSUED TO A REGISTERED BUSINESS FOR THAT PROPERTY ONLY, OR A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION? I THINK THE LANGUAGE SAYS WITHIN THEIR GEOGRAPHIC AREA. 
          IF FOR EXAMPLE, I WANTED TO GO PUT A SIGN UP IN THE CITY RIGHT AWAY, YOU KNOW, A HALF A MILE AWAY, I WOULD HAVE TO GET AN INDIVIDUAL PERMIT FOR THAT PARTICULAR SIGN. 
          SO THIS IS ONLY GOOD ON, YOU KNOW, IN A NEIGHBORHOOD IN YOUR BOUNDARY AND IN A BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO BE ON YOUR PROPERTY. 
          SO AN INDIVIDUAL CAN'T BUY ONE AND PUT A SIGN IN THEIR YARD THAT SAYS GARAGE SALE SECOND WEEKEND IN MAY AND IN OCTOBER. 
          THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO YEAH, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD THEN THEY WOULD GO TO THE PROGRAM THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW IN ORDER TO, WELL, UH, I DON'T KNOW. 
          I MEAN, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THIS CODIFIED. 
          I MEAN THAT RIGHT NOW THEY COULD, RIGHT NOW, I MEAN THE ONLY WAY I COULD REALLY LOOK AT EXCEPTION NUMBER ONE IS YOU BUY A PERMIT, ANNUAL PERMIT FOR AN ADDRESS, YOU KNOW, AND ANYBODY COULD BUY THAT PERMIT FOR THAT ADDRESS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, SO YEAH, I THINK AS WRITTEN CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, UH, THAT SOMEBODY COULD COME IN AND SAY, HEY, I WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GET THIS FOR MY HOUSE AND I'M GONNA PUT THIS UP. 
          UM, SO IF I'M NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THAT'S GETTING INTO CONTENT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT AND YOU GOTTA A LITTLE BIT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CAREFUL WITH THAT. 
          NOW, OPTIONS, AS I PUT IN MY EMAIL ABOUT THIS, WE HAVE THE RE RIGHT TO, YOU KNOW, PUT ZONING WORK RESTRICTIONS ON THIS. 
          SO IT'S VERY EASY FOR US TO SAY, NOT IN RESIDENTIAL, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IS I THINK A LOT OF, I DON'T KNOW, DO ANY APARTMENTS FALL WITHIN A RESIDENTIAL ZONING OR WOULD Y'ALL ALWAYS BE A COMMERCIAL THERE, THERE, OR IS IT KIND OF A HODGEPODGE? DEPENDS WHICH IS WORSE. 
          NO, UH, THEY ARE IN A RESIDENTIAL, THEY'RE ZONED ARE, YOU KNOW, IN A RES THEIR ZONE? WELL, NO, MOST OF 'EM ARE MF, BUT THE UNDER THE OLD ZONING CODES, THEY MAY BE IN A BUSINESS DISTRICT AND IF THEY EXISTED BEFORE, UH, LIKE THE CITY TOOK THEM IN, THEY MAYBE HAVE GOTTEN, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN THAT'S ANNEX COMES IN, IS OUR, WHATEVER IT IS. 
          AND SO I, I JUST DON'T SEE, I DON'T SEE SOMEBODY WHO IS GETTING A GARAGE, HAVING A GARAGE SALE, WHICH REQUIRES A PERMIT, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE THE GARAGE SALE SPENDING THE $50 TO GET THIS KIND OF DEAL WHEN THEY CAN BUY THE LITTLE. 
          SO, BUT, BUT I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          IF SOMEBODY HAD A GARAGE SALE IN THEIR YARD AND THEY WANTED TO PUT UP A SIGN IN THEIR YARD, NOT IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, BUT ON THEIR YARD THAT SAYS GARAGE SALE WHILE THE GARAGE SALE'S GOING ON, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO, DOES THAT REQUIRE A PERMIT RIGHT NOW? NO, SIR. 
          WITH THE GARAGE SALE PERMIT, THEY RECEIVE TWO SORT OF LIKE DECALS THAT THEY'LL CUT AND PASTE ON THE SIGNS IF THEY WANT ADDITIONAL DECALS, THEN THEY COME THROUGH US THROUGH THE TEMPORARY WEEKEND SIGN PROGRAM, WHICH 
          [00:45:01]
IS A $50. 
          THOSE DECALS YOU HAVE THERE. 
          YEAH, THOSE ALLOWS THEM TO PUT THE SIGNS, MORE ADDITIONAL SIGNS IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY. 
          SO IT'S KIND OF ALREADY COVERED IN THE GARAGE SALE ORDINANCE THAT THEY GET TWO STICKERS TO PUT ON SIGNS THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN THIS. 
          THIS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, IS MORE FOR BUSINESS OR HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS TO BE ABLE TO PUT UP THE SIGNS IN THEIR GEOGRAPHIC AREA. 
          AND THE INSPECTOR, IF WE USE SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO KNOW EASILY THAT IT'S LEGIT, I THINK THAT'S A MUCH BETTER SYSTEM THAN JUST LETTING SOMEBODY PUT A, YOU KNOW, A PRINTED LABEL OFF THE COMPUTER THAT NOBODY KNOWS IS IF IT'S REAL OR NOT REAL AND TAKES A WHOLE LOT OF TIME TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A LEGIT PERMIT OR NOT. 
          UM, MARK, YES, UH, I SEE THIS HELPING IN SOME FORM OR FASHION, BUT, UM, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE, UH, 75% OF SIGNS THAT GO UP THAT DON'T HAVE THIS PERMIT? HOW, HOW DO THOSE GET TREATED MOVING FORWARD? YEAH, I MEAN THIS IS, THIS IS BASICALLY THE LITTLE PLASTIC SIGNS WHAT IT IS, BUT OKAY, SO, SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN YOUR QUESTION? THE CITY, IF IT'S PUT UP AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE OF THESE STICKERS ON THE CITY RIGHT NOW, PICKS THOSE SIGNS UP AND THERE'S SOME KIND OF ENFORCE OR THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF ENFORCEMENT AGAINST THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PUTTING IT UP ILLEGALLY. 
          WHETHER THAT ALWAYS HAPPENS OR NOT BECAUSE OF THE VOLUME, IT'S HARD, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO WANNA DO IT RIGHT WOULD BE PROTECTED BY HAVING A STICKER ON THE SITE. 
          I'M JUST CONVINCED I'M NOT GONNA SEE MANY STICKERS ON THESE SIGNS. 
          THAT'S JUST ME. 
          YEAH, WELL, BUT THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, SO, BUT ALRIGHT. 
          HOW MANY SIGNS DO Y'ALL THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS PICK UP ANNUALLY? YEAH, I MEAN IT WAS, WE, WE, GOING BACK TO FEBRUARY OR MARCH WHEN WE HAD OUR FIRST MEETING, I THINK WE PRESENTED ON IT, BUT OVER LIKE A FIVE YEAR PROGRAM. 
          I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING TENS OF THOUSANDS. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I MEAN, AND THAT'S, THAT WAS OUR MAJOR CONCERN EVEN BEFORE WE MET THIS MORNING. 
          AND WHY STAFF? YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS THE ONLY REASON STAFF IS NOT GOING TO ADVOCATE FOR THIS OR PROPOSE THIS, BUT ONE OF THE BIGGEST ONES WAS LIMIT OUR ABILITY TO GO AFTER BANDIT SIGNS. 
          UM, BECAUSE OF, ALL THIS HAD TO REQUIRE WAS SOMEBODY TAKING AN AFRICAN NUMBER THAT LOOKS LIKE A PERMANENT NUMBER AND PUTTING IT ON THERE AND THEIR BUSINESS ADDRESS, THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO STOP RESEARCH, PULL UP OUR COMPUTERS, OUR LAPTOPS, IS THAT A VALID PERMIT? IS THIS THE ADDRESS? AND IT WOULD SLOW US DOWN FROM THEN JUST, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW WHAT WE DO IS WE JUST DRIVE AROUND AND WE SEE A SIGN THAT DOESN'T HAVE A STICKER ON IT. 
          WE CAN PULL IT UP, THROW IN THE BACK OF OUR TRUCK AND KEEP MOVING. 
          SO IT WOULD SLOW DOWN THE BANDIT SIGN AND PROGRAM. 
          NOW ADDING THE STICKER WILL HELP WITH THAT SUM, YOU KNOW, WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW, WE'LL STILL REQUIRE, I STILL WANT, YOU KNOW, THE BUSINESS NAME AND THE PERMIT NUMBER, BUT ANYBODY CAN PRINT THAT, YOU KNOW, THEMSELVES. 
          THEY DON'T HAVE TO COME FOR US. 
          BUT BY HAVING THIS STICKER, WE CAN AT LEAST SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT STICKER'S GOOD FOR THIS YEAR. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE COLOR, THEY CAN SEE THAT AND MOVE FORWARD. 
          SO THAT HELPS A LITTLE BIT. 
          BUT STILL WE DO HAVE CONCERNS WITH JUST, YOU KNOW, A LOT MORE OF THESE SMALL SIGNS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. 
          YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE, THIS KIND OF CAME UP TODAY. 
          I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO VET THIS WITH MY EXECUTIVE TEAM TO SAY, WHERE DOES DSTS FALL ON THIS? UM, YOU KNOW, IT, IT IS AN IMPROVEMENT, UH, WE'LL SAY AS ON THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE, THE STICKER REQUIREMENT IS A CONSIDERABLE IMPROVEMENT. 
          IT'LL ALLOW US TO POLICE IT BETTER. 
          UH, BUT THOSE THERE ARE STILL CONCERNS OF, YOU KNOW, MORE BANDIT OR NOT BANDIT SIGNS, BUT MORE SMALL TEMPORARY SCIENCE BEING INSTALLED THROUGHOUT THE CITY. 
          YOU KNOW, I, YEAH, I, I RUN THAT BY MY EXECUTIVE TEAM BEFORE I WOULD SAY THAT WE, YEAH. 
          SO THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS. 
          WE'LL PROBABLY TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN AT THE NEXT MEETING, BUT I WANTED TO PROVIDE SOME FEEDBACK. 
          MY PERSONAL, AND THEN I'LL CALL ON EVERYBODY IS THAT IT'S NOT GONNA INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF SIGNS. 
          IT'S NOT GONNA DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF SIGNS. 
          IT'S JUST GONNA HELP IDENTIFY WHICH ARE KOSHER AND WHICH ARE NOT. 
          COLLEEN AREN'T, WASN'T THE IDEA OF THESE TEMPORARY SMALL SIGNS YOU COULD PUT 'EM OUT, YOU KNOW, ON THE WEEKEND, TAKE 'EM UP, THEY WEREN'T FOREVER. 
          AND AREN'T YOU, AREN'T YOU BASICALLY NOW TAKING AWAY THE TEMPORARY NATURE OF THESE SIGNS AND CREATING THE VISUAL CLUTTER, SHOULD I SAY CONDONING THE VISUAL CLUTTER? I MEAN, I WOULD JUST SAY IT'S, IT TO NOT LABEL IT TOO MUCH, BUT YES, WE ARE REMOVING CURRENTLY SMALL TEMPORARY SIGNS WHEN THEY GET THE STICKER. 
          HAVE TO BE, YOU KNOW, CAN ONLY BE UP FOR MOSTLY FRIDAY THROUGH MONDAY. 
          UM, THEY HAVE 
          [00:50:01]
TO COME DOWN AFTER THAT WHERE THIS WOULD ALLOW THEM TO BE UP ALL YEAR LONG. 
          YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO LIMITATION ON THAT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD'VE TO GET A NEW STICKER, THEY COULD, YOU KNOW, USE THE SAME SIGN. 
          I MEAN, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GO THROUGH WASTE OF, YOU GOTTA THROW THAT SIGN AWAY, YOU GOTTA, BUT POTENTIALLY, YES, SOMEBODY I THINK WITH THIS CURRENT APPROACH COULD KEEP A SIGN OUT THERE AND JUST ADD A NEW STICKER EVERY YEAR TO IT. 
          UH, BUT ONCE AGAIN, IT WOULD AT LEAST AT THAT POINT BE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT MORE, WELL, AND THIS IS NOT SIGN IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. 
          IT'S SIGN ON YOUR PROPERTY. 
          AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALREADY UP. 
          AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, AND I DON'T THINK THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, WHEN THEY DRIVE, AND I'M NOT PICKING ON CIRCLE K, BUT DRIVE BY CIRCLE K AND IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, APPLY FOR A JOB INSIDE THAT. 
          THOSE ARE THE SIGNS THEY'RE PULLING DOWN. 
          THEY'RE PULLING DOWN SIGNS THAT ARE ON VACANT LAND AND THAT, AND, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S, IT'S FAIRLY CONFINED TO WHERE IT GOES. 
          AND IN OTHER WORDS, IT WOULD APPLY TO LIKE IN AN APARTMENT FREEZE WARNING SIGNS THAT YOU'RE PUTTING UP WHERE YOU CAN DO 'EM KOSHER OR YOU KNOW, THE ONE THAT APPEARS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD BESIDES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING A PARTY OR, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE OAK WILT SIGNS AND THOSE STAY UP, YOU KNOW, ALL THE TIME FROM, YOU KNOW, IN THE SEASONS WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO CUT THEIR TREES, THAT IT'S NOT A GOOD THING. 
          SO I THOUGHT THIS WAS, IT WAS BETTER TO REGULATE THE ONES THAT ARE OKAY VERSUS THE ONES THAT END UP ON THE TELEPHONE POLES AND ON VACANT PROPERTY AND, YOU KNOW, GET FLOWN, YOU KNOW, GET CAUGHT BY THE WIND AND BECOME TRASH AND ALLOWING PEOPLE TO, YOU KNOW, UTILIZE THEIR PROPERTY AND MESSAGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          AND THEN AGAIN, WE CAN LOOK AT IT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE REVIEW IT AND IF IT DIDN'T WORK, WE JUST TAKE IT OUT AND GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS. 
          BUT THESE SIGNS ARE GOING UP REGARDLESS. 
          AND THIS WOULD BE, THE PERMIT IDEA WAS AN EASY, YOU KNOW, WITH A OFFICIAL STICKER, MAKES IT EASY ON EVERYBODY TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WHAT'S OKAY VERSUS WHAT IS AN UNAUTHORIZED SIGN ON SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY, YOU KNOW? AND THE ONES I HAVE, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH IT WE CAN'T REGULATE IS THE POLITICAL SIGNS. 
          'CAUSE THEY END UP, YOU KNOW, ON EVERYWHERE AND EVERYTHING. 
          AND ON OUR VACANT LAND, YOU KNOW, WE DRIVE BY AND, YOU KNOW, WE FIND THAT WE'RE SUPPORTING, YOU KNOW, 45 DIFFERENT PEOPLE FOR ELECTION BECAUSE THEY, THE SIGNS JUST POP UP. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I'M A HOMEOWNER. 
          HOW DO I KNOW THAT I HAVE TO GET ONE OF THESE THINGS TO PUT ON MY SIGN? YOU, YOU AS A HOMEOWNER, YOU PROBABLY, THE ONLY TWO SIGNS THAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT MOST PROBABLY UP IN YOUR YARD IS GARAGE SALE, WHICH REQUIRES A PERMIT, WHICH YOU GET THE STICKERS ANYWAY. 
          AND FOR LEASE OR FOR SALE SIGNS, WHICH DON'T REQUIRE THE PERMITS. 
          AND, AND OTHER THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERY OTHER SIGN THAT'S UP IS A POLITICAL MESSAGE AND THOSE DON'T REQUIRE ANY KIND OF STICKERS EITHER. 
          CORRECT. 
          JOSEPH? CORRECT. 
          BIANCA, I DON'T KNOW. 
          WHEN I READ ANNUAL TEMPORARY SIGN, SMALL SIGN PERMIT, IT'S NOT TEMPORARY TO WHAT COLLEEN MENTIONED. 
          UM, AND SMALL, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF SMALL, UM, WHAT'S THE SIZE ASSOCIATED WITH THAT? I'M ASSUMING THERE'S ONE UP THERE FURTHER UP. 
          YEAH, SO I UNDERSTAND THE INTENT INITIALLY AND HOW THIS WAS PROPOSED, BUT MANY OF THE SIGNS THAT I SEE IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT SAY OAK WILL, BUT OAK WILL USUALLY ONLY COMES OUT DURING A CERTAIN SPECIFIED TIMEFRAME. 
          UM, NEIGHBORHOODS AND HOAS PUT OUT INFORMATIONAL SIGNAGE THAT'S USUALLY TIME SENSITIVE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT AN UPCOMING MEETING. 
          YOU KNOW, THAT REMINDER, THERE'S THE MONTHLY MEETING AT THE END OF THE MONTH. 
          YOU KNOW, IT USUALLY GOES OUT AT LEAST IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DAYS BEFORE THAT ACTUAL MEETING. 
          BUT IT DOESN'T STAY UP ALL THE TIME. 
          AND SO I THINK THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ANNUAL WITH THE WORD TEMPORARY, I DON'T THINK IT ACCOMPLISHES OUR GOAL. 
          I THINK IT'S CONTRADICTIVE TO OR CONTRADICTS, UM, REGARDING BANDIT SIGNS AND OUR WHOLE GOAL OF KEEPING OUR, OUR, OUR COMMUNITIES FROM 
          [00:55:01]
BEING, UH, CLUTTERED. 
          BECAUSE WHEN THAT BECOMES ESSENTIALLY A TEMPORARY, WE CALL IT A TEMPORARY, BUT IT'S ESSENTIALLY A PERMANENT SIGN, IT RAISES CONCERNS IN MY MIND FOR OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS, OUR LANDMARKS, OUR NCDS AREAS THAT THE CITY HAS PUT PROTECTIONS IN AND HAS A SIGNAGE OVERLAY, UH, RESTRICTION THAT'S IN PLACE. 
          AND SO IT IN ESSENCE ISN'T A TEMPORARY SIGN ANYMORE. 
          IT BECOMES PERMANENT AND THEN, OH WAIT, WELL A PERMANENT SIGN HAS TO HAVE A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN. 
          CAN'T, YOU KNOW, ALL DIFFERENT THINGS WHEN IT, WHEN YOU COME INTO AND START TALKING ABOUT THE 30 HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND THE 1300 LANDMARKS AND WHAT IS THAT, NINE OR 10 NCDS? SO THAT'S MY BIG CONCERN. 
          AND, AND I, I GUESS MAYBE COULD, COULD, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD TALK ABOUT FURTHER OFFLINE ABOUT HOW, BECAUSE IT'S THE WORD, IT'S THE USE OF THE WORD TEMPORARY. 
          YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALLOWED A TEMPORARY, UH, SIGNAGE AND HOW THAT, HOW THAT WILL OCCUR BECAUSE NOW IT BECOMES PERMANENT. 
          SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY NUMBER ONE CONCERN. 
          NO, THAT'S FAIR. 
          SO LET ME, I I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF IS SO WITHIN, CAN SOMEONE GET, RIGHT NOW IN ONE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS, THE LITTLE STICKER TO PUT THE SIGN UP AND THE RIGHT OF WAY THAT PERMIT WOULD FLAG HISTORIC? SO HISTORIC WOULD'VE TO APPROVE IT, TO PUT UP A BANDIT SIGN? CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF, IF YOU HAVE TO, DO YOU HAVE TO DELINEATE WHEN YOU BUY THE STICKER WHERE THE STICKER IS EXACT, WHERE THE SIGN WHERE EXACTLY YOU'RE PUTTING THE SIGN? CORRECT. 
          SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THE ADDRESS THAT PROVIDED, THAT'S THE ONE THAT FLAGS THE HISTORIC REVIEW. 
          SO THEY CAN GET AN, UH, PERMIT FOR AN ADDRESS THAT'S NOT WITHIN HISTORIC, BUT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO GO UP TO THREE MILES IN ANY ONE DIRECTION OF THAT ADDRESS. 
          SO THAT FALLS INTO HISTORIC, THEY POTENTIALLY CAN PUT IT UP THERE WITHOUT THEIR APPROVAL. 
          OKAY. 
          SO JEREMY, I ASSUME WE'LL JUST LEAVE THIS ON THE LIST, BUT WHAT, BUT IF WE DON'T PASS SOMETHING, I, I THINK YOU NEED TO QUIT SELECTIVELY ENFORCING WHICH BANDIT SIGNS YOU PULL UP AND NOT, AND IF, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T INCLUDE SOMETHING FOR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THOSE ORGANIZATIONS WHO PUT UP ILLEGAL SIGNS WHO DON'T GET STICKERS NEED TO GET FINED AND HAVE THEIR SIGN REMOVED LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. 
          SO THAT WE'RE PLAYING FAIR WITH EVERYBODY. 
          SO WE'LL, WE'LL PUSH THIS, UH, YEAH, I WOULD JUST ASK FOR WHY DON'T RUN THE STICKER IDEA OF YEAH, WE CAN, YEAH, YEAH, WE CAN LOOK AT THE CODIFYING OF THE STICKER AND, AND SEEING WHAT WE NEED TO DO AND SEE IF WE CAN DO THAT WITHIN OUR CURRENT FEE STRUCTURE AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY FEES THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE. 
          I IDEALLY NOT, UH, THAT WOULD BE THE GOAL. 
          UM, BUT I GUESS ANY ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THE ZONING STIPULATION ADDING, UM, SOME FORM OF ZONING, STIPULATION TO EXEMPTION ONE, ONCE AGAIN, I MEAN, THERE ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE ZONED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL RIGHT NOW THAT HAVE THE OLD B TWO WHEN THAT B ONE B TWO CONVERSION OCCURRED. 
          SO, AND THAT, THAT'S NOT CLEAR ON THE ZONING MAP. 
          YOU HAVE TO DO A LETTER OF DETERMINATION TO FIGURE THAT OUT. 
          IT'S NOT PUBLICLY AVAILABLE. 
          UM, SO I THINK PUTTING A ZONING, I MEAN, I'D LOVE TO SAY NO RESIDENTIAL ON ITEM ONE, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S CLEAR, BUT MAYBE YOU CAN TALK TO THE ZONING DEPARTMENT AND SEE WHAT, WHAT THEY THINK AND I'LL HAPPY TO WHERE IT BE. 
          SO, SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION, JOSEPH, A QUESTION SINCE YOU'RE SITTING THERE. 
          SO QUIET. 
          UH, THE, UH, CAN WE PUT A STIPULATION FOR GETTING THIS PERMIT THAT THE PERMIT APPLIES TO BUSINESS ONLY? SO BECAUSE THEY HAD TO GET A C F O, THEY, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BUSINESS VERSUS WHAT'S RESIDENTIAL? SO, UH, REGULATION BY ZONING DISTRICT IS PRETTY WELL ESTABLISHED ONCE YOU GET INTO OCCUPANCY USE. 
          AND I, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S MANY CITIES THAT GO THAT ROUTE. 
          UM, YOU HAVE CERTAIN CITIES, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE HOUSTON THAT DON'T HAVE ZONING, BUT THEY CREATE SPECIAL SIGN DISTRICTS THAT ARE LOOSELY KIND OF BASED ON, UM, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, ESSENTIALLY ZONING. 
          UH, BUT COULD YOU PUT A SENTENCE IN THERE THAT SAYS A BUSINESS MAY? YEAH. 
          THEN YOU GET INTO, AND THAT'S SO, AND, AND YOU, YOU THEN YOU START GETTING INTO THAT THE USE AND, AND, AND IT MAY BE A REACH, BUT, AND THE SAME THING WITH NUMBER TWO WITH, WITH, 
          [01:00:01]
YOU KNOW, ALLOWING THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS. 
          IS SOMEBODY GONNA MAKE THAT JUMP TO, OKAY, NOW YOU'RE KIND OF REGULATING CONTENT BECAUSE THE BUSINESS IS GOING TO, YOU KNOW, ADVERTISE CERTAIN THINGS OR, OR SPEAK TO CERTAIN THINGS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IS GONNA SPEAK TO CERTAIN THINGS. 
          AND, AND, AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE'D HAVE TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, IS, AND IT MAY, AGAIN, IT MAY BE A LEAP, BUT IN THIS, HOW THESE RECENT COURT CASES HAVE COME OUT, ANY SORT OF CONNECTION TO CONTENT IS, IS GONNA BE LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, VERY STRICTLY. 
          SO CAN YOU PLEASE LOOK AT THAT FOR THE NEXT MEETING? I MEAN, I JUST CAN'T SEE A SINGLE FAMILY HOMEOWNER SUING THE CITY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GET THIS PERMIT, YOU KNOW, AND SPENDING THAT KIND OF DOLLARS TO GO FORWARD, OR SOME CLASS ACTION SUIT OR SOME, YOU KNOW, NONPROFIT CHAMPIONING THIS DEAL. 
          BUT I, I AGREE IT NEEDS TO STAY OUT OF, YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS OTHER THAN FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SIGNS, WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, MOST PEOPLE THINK IT'S OKAY. 
          AND A LOT OF THOSE SUBDIVISIONS ARE, YOU KNOW, THE, THERE IS NO, WHAT I CALL RIGHT OF WAY BECAUSE THE STREETS ARE PRIVATE, BUT LIKE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, THE STREETS ARE ALL PUBLIC AND THE SIGNS ARE UP, YOU KNOW, OAK WIL FREEZE MEETINGS, SWIM PARTIES, YOU KNOW, MEMORIAL DAY, JULY 4TH, YOU KNOW, PARTY AT THE POOL, YOU KNOW. 
          SO IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO, YEAH. 
          WE'LL, WE'LL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, OKAY, BIANCA, SO I KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN PROPOSED U D C AMENDMENTS AND YOU'VE COME BACK WITH A PILOT PROGRAM, OR YOU'VE COME BACK WITH SOMETHING YOU COULD DO ADMINISTRATIVELY TO POTENTIALLY ADDRESS THE SAME CONCERN. 
          SO I JUST WANT TO THROW THAT OUT THERE, IF THAT MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA, IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU CAN DO WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THIS IS A CONCERN THAT THERE ARE SIGNS THAT ARE BEING REMOVED, AND I GUESS THEY'RE NOT BEING TURNED OVER BECAUSE THEY'RE BANDIT SIGNS, ESSENTIALLY ON A PROPERTY. 
          AND SO MAYBE THERE'S A PILOT PROGRAM THAT CAN BE DONE WHERE THEY ARE TURNED BACK INTO THE OWNER, SAY, YOU CAN'T BE PUTTING THESE OUT HERE. 
          IT'S EXCESSIVE, THE EDUCATIONAL PIECE, CARROT INSTEAD OF THE STICK, I GUESS, UM, MENTALITY. 
          SO I JUST WANNA THROW THAT OUT THERE INSTEAD OF POTENTIALLY HAVING TO CHANGE THE CODE. 
          JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          YEP, WE CAN DO THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND THE BIG, THE BIG REASON THAT I SUGGESTED THIS AS A NEIGHBORHOOD, FORMER NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT AND A BUSINESS OWNER WAS THE PROCESS TO GO GET THE STICKER IS NOT EASY. 
          AND, AND SO IF FOR, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S YOUR OWN PROPERTY OR IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD FIGURING OUT A WAY TO DO IT ONCE A YEAR, YOU GET WHATEVER YOU NEED TO GET AND YOU'RE DONE OVER FINISHED, RATHER THAN HAVING TO COME GET IT EVERY SINGLE TIME. 
          AND IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, I'M ASSUMING WHEN YOU APPLY FOR THE PERMIT, THE SAME KIND OF PROCESS. 
          YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WE'RE NOT GONNA ISSUE YOU A THE ANNUAL PERMIT IF, YOU KNOW THE, THERE'S ANOTHER ORDINANCE THAT PREVENTS THOSE KIND OF SIGNS IN, IN THE AREA. 
          SO I THINK WE CAN ADDRESS THAT. 
          BUT I WANT, RATHER THAN CONTINUING THE DISCUSSION, LET'S KICK IT BACK TO STAFF TO DO SOME MORE RESEARCH. 
          AND IF YOU HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, COMMENT OR SUGGESTIONS, JUST EMAIL JEREMY AND HE'LL SEND IT OUT TO WHOEVER, COLLEEN. 
          THAT'S OKAY. 
          I'LL, I'LL, IS THAT, ARE YOU OKAY? YOU'RE WELCOME TO SAY IT IF YOU WANT. 
          I, I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT. 
          . 
          SORRY. 
          . 
          I APOLOGIZE. 
          . 
          OKAY. 
          JEREMY, NEXT. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO THIS IS BRINGING US TO THE FINAL ITEM FOR TODAY. 
          AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SIX, CHAPTER 28, AMENDMENT ITEM 13 DASH ONE, EXTERNAL REQUEST TO AMEND MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 28 TO UPDATE THE CODE TO REFLECT CURRENT NIGHT SKY FRIENDLY LIGHT LIGHTING STANDARDS AND MAXIMUM VALUES, AS RECOMMENDED BY THE INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION, THE ILLUMINATING ENGINEERING SOCIETY, AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON ILLUMINATION. 
          SO, DON, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START OFF OR, SO ONE THING WE WANTED TO CONSIDER, UM, IS HOW WE MIGHT PULL THE LANGUAGE OVER FROM THE M L O D, UH, FROM THE U D C UPDATES THAT WERE MADE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR INTO THIS LANGUAGE. 
          UM, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE ONE OF THE CLEANER WAYS TO MAKE THE CHANGES THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO HERE, UM, WHILE STILL KEEPING SOME OF THE 
          [01:05:01]
LANGUAGE DEFINITIONS THAT WERE ADDED ON, UM, AND THE REQUESTS OR REQUIREMENT TO MEET 3000 KELVIN OR LOWER. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, SO THAT WOULD JUST BE MOSTLY TRYING TO FIND WITHIN CHAPTER 28 SAYING, ARE ALL REQUIREMENTS FOR M L O D LIGHTING ON SIGNS AND IT'S ENFORCEABLE FOR ALL SIGNS THROUGHOUT THE CITY, ULTIMATELY IS KIND OF THE REQUEST ULTIMATELY? YES. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, UNFORTUNATELY BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE M L O D IS SET UP, IT'S VERY TWO VERY DISTINCT SECTIONS THAT WE WOULD NEED TO PROBABLY WORK WITH YOU TO FIND WHERE THEY FIT INTO THE MUCH MORE LENGTHIER SIGN CODE. 
          SO, JEREMY, UH, HAVE WE FIGURED OUT WHAT THE COST OF THIS IS, OR, YEAH, WE DID SOME RESEARCH, UM, WE GET, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO R TWO, REACHED OUT, WE REACHED OUT TO THREE SIGN COMPANIES ON THE DIGITAL SIDE, AND WE REACHED OUT TO THREE SIGN COMPANIES ON MORE OF THE FABRICATED, UH, INTERNAL LIGHTING, UH, YOU KNOW, STATIC OR PRINTED SIGNS. 
          THANK YOU ART. 
          ON THE RESPONSE FROM THE COMPANIES THAT, UH, WE ASK QUESTIONS IF THE IMPACT WOULD WOULD BE ON DIGITAL SIGNS, AND ALL THREE OF 'EM SAID NEGATIVE BECAUSE THE DIGITAL UNIT ITSELF COMES ALREADY WITH LOUVERS AND IT HAS THE TECHNOLOGY TO, UM, REDUCE THE BRIGHTNESS, BUT ON THE STATIC SIGNS, THEY WOULD'VE TO ADD SOME SHIELDING OR SOME LOUVERS. 
          SO THAT ONE, THEY'RE LOOKING APPROXIMATELY 20% ADDITIONAL COST FOR THE FABRICATION. 
          SO MY, UH, SIGN, HOW MANY PEOPLE HERE ARE IN THE SIGN BUSINESS IN THE ON-PREMISE SIGN BUSINESS? OKAY. 
          SORRY. 
          SO DO YOU THINK THAT NUMBER'S GOOD? YES. 
          SO, SO EVERY SIGN WOULD COST, EVERY NEW SIGN WOULD COST 20%. 
          THE DIGITAL, IT, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. 
          'CAUSE THEY'RE BASICALLY, IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, THEY ARE ALL BUILT THAT WAY. 
          ALL THE INDIVIDUAL LIGHT THINGS POINTED DOWN TO THE ROAD. 
          AND YOU CAN, THE BIG ONES ARE THE, UH, THE BACKLIT SIGNS AND THE SIGNS THAT ARE LIT BY LIGHTS. 
          CORRECT? YEAH. 
          SO CAN SOMEBODY EXPLAIN TO ME, 'CAUSE WE BUY A LOT OF SIGNS, HOW YOU GET LOUVERS ON A BACKLIT SIGN? NOT REALISTIC OF ALL. 
          CAN YOU, CAN YOU SPEAK INTO THE MIC? SORRY. 
          I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S NOT REALISTIC TO TALK, TO TALK ABOUT LOUVERS ON A, UM, REGULAR BACKLIT SIGN. 
          I MEAN, WORST CASE SCENARIO, I GUESS WE COULD PUT A CAP ON THE TOP THAT WOULD, UM, UH, ELIMINATE SOME OF THE UPLIGHTING. 
          UM, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S ABOUT THE ONLY OPTION. 
          I ASSUME. 
          I ASSUME WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THOSE DISTRICTS WHERE IT WOULD BE NECESSARY. 
          SO IF I CAN COMMENT, THE BACKLIT SIGNS, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THEY TYPICALLY, MUCH LIKE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS AND DIGITAL SIGNS ARE FRAMED. 
          CORRECT. 
          SO THAT WOULD MEET THE COMPLIANCE OF THE FULL CUTOFF. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          SO EXPLAIN IT. 
          IT IT HAD MOST BACKLIT SIGNS ARE IN A BOX. 
          THEY HAVE A FRONT ON IT, THE LIGHT SHINES OUT AND GOES EVERY WHICH WAY. 
          IT'S A NON-DIRECTIONAL LIGHT. 
          AT LEAST THAT'S MY EXPERIENCE. 
          THERE'S TUBES IN IT AND IT JUST SHOOTS THE LIGHT OUT. 
          IT DOESN'T, BUT, BUT IT DOESN'T PROHIBIT LIGHTING FROM GOING UP. 
          AND THERE'S NO REAL PRAC, AT LEAST IN MY EXPERIENCE, NO REAL PRACTICAL WAY TO SHIELD OUT THE FRONT TO KEEP THE LIGHT THAT'S BEING ADMITTED FROM GOING UP. 
          IS THAT? WELL, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT IF YOU IMAGINE, YOU KNOW, A, A BOX THAT THE LIGHT SITS WITHIN, IT'S GOING TO BE FRAMED ALONG THE TOP AND THAT FRAMING IS GOING TO MEET, OR EVEN IN SOME CASES, MAYBE EXCEED SLIGHTLY THE EDGE OF THE DIGITAL DISPLAY OR THE LIGHTING DISPLAY. 
          SO THAT WOULD TECHNICALLY MEET THAT CUTOFF OF 90 DEGREES BELOW THE HORIZON. 
          YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. 
          LIKE A TWO INCH SLIP, UM, WHICH HANGS OVER THE TOP OF THE SIGN. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A LIP OVER THE TOP OF THE SIGN TO MEET THAT. 
          WELL, ALMOST ALL OF 
          [01:10:01]
OUR SIGNS HAVE A, A LIP TO KEEP THE WATER OUT. 
          WELL, TO KEEP THE WATER OUT, TO KEEP FROM DAMAGING THE, THE LIGHTING SURFACE. 
          CORRECT. 
          THAT'S HOW WE BUILD THEM. 
          YEP. 
          ON, ON MOST OF THE BACKLIT SIGNS, THEY HAVE A LIP ON THE TOP. 
          WELL, THAT'S THE FRAME. 
          AND THE FRAME EXTENDS OUT OVER THE FACE AND EITHER A INCH AND A HALF OR TWO AND ALMOST EVERY CASE. 
          SO, SO REALLY IT WOULDN'T COST ANYTHING EXTRA. 
          NOT IF WE'D BUILD THE SIGNS THE WAY WE'RE BUILDING 'EM RIGHT NOW. 
          NO. 
          AND IF THAT LIP COUNTS, YES. 
          SO WHAT SIGNS WOULD COST 20%? WHAT KIND OF SIGNS WOULD COST 20% MORE TO BUILD? WELL, I, I, I'M NOT SURE. 
          I MEAN, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STANDARD SIGNS THAT WE BUILD, UM, AND THEY ALL DO HAVE THAT FRAME AND THE LIP, UH, I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT KIND OF ON-PREMISE SIGN ARE. 
          WHAT KIND OF SIGNS WERE WE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER? WHEN, WHEN YOU HAVE A, A REGULAR CABINET AND YOU HAVE TO PUT, UH, A SHIELD ON TOP OF YOUR EXISTING CABINET TO PROTECT THE LIGHT FROM PROJECTED UPWARDS. 
          SO THAT ADDITIONAL COST IS WHAT THEY WERE TELLING ME WOULD BE RUN ABOUT 20% MORE, BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE ADDING ANOTHER ELEMENT TO THE CABINET TO WHERE IT PROJECTS FURTHER FROM THE CABINET ITSELF. 
          SO MORE LIKE A LURE TYPE OR LIKE THE OLD CARS HAD THE, THE FLANGE THAT COMES OUT. 
          I MEAN, IT'S, I, IT'S HARD TO PREDICT WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE IS GONNA BE. 
          I MEAN, MAXIMUM 20%. 
          BUT, UM, IT'S, IT'S REALLY NOT A REALISTIC SITUATION. 
          I CAN'T, OKAY. 
          SO MY QUESTION IS, IS THAT IF IT APPLIED TO ALL DIGITAL SIGNS AND ALL SIGNS THAT HAVE AN EXTERNAL LIGHTING, AND YOU'RE TELLING US THAT THE CABINET SATISFIES THE REQUIREMENT, WHETHER IT HAS THE LITTLE LIP OR NOT, WOULD IT BE OKAY TO EXCLUDE, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO EXCLUDE BACKLIT SIGNS? I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A REASON TO EXCLUDE BACKLIT SIGNS. 
          ARE THERE ANY SITUATIONS THAT YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHEN A INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED SIGN WOULD NOT HAVE THAT FRAMEWORK OR WOULD EXTEND BEYOND THAT FRAMEWORK? YEAH, BECAUSE I'M ALSO WANTING, I'M ALSO WANTING TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION DIGITAL SIGNAGE SUCH AS, UM, YOU KNOW, PERMANENT DIGITAL, A FRAMES OR KIOSK SIGNAGE, OR MAP SIGNAGE. 
          THAT WOULD BE FOR THE PURPOSES ON, YOU KNOW, GROUND LEVEL FOR PUBLIC USE THAT ARE ANGLED FOR READING PURPOSES THAT WOULD SHINE UP. 
          SO WHILE YOUR SIGNAGE MAY NOT NEED TO MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS, 'CAUSE THEY ALREADY DO, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS THIS PRECEDENT IN PLACE FOR ANY NEW TYPE OF SIGNAGE OR ANY NEW SIGNAGE THAT COMES ON BOARD. 
          SO IT, IT WOULD NOT AFFECT, FROM WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU, IT WOULD NOT AFFECT YOUR SIGNAGE. 
          BUT WE'RE WANTING TO ALSO PROTECT AGAINST ANY OTHER VISUAL DISPLAYS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, ANGLED UPWARD JUST BY DESIGN OR NEW DESIGN THAT MAY COME ALONG IN THE FUTURE. 
          SO IF THE CITY WANTS TO PUT UP IN THE ALAMO AREA, DIGITAL SIGNS THAT ARE LIKE, SO YOU CAN READ WHAT'S GOING ON, THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO THAT. 
          THAT AT THAT POINT IT'S POINTING UP. 
          THERE'S NO SHIELDING. 
          SO THEY WOULD BE PROHIBITED. 
          THEY WOULD NEED TO COME UP WITH A DESIGN THAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME KIND OF OVERHANG TO BLOCK THAT LIGHT. 
          SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUILD A STRUCTURE OVER THE DISPLAY TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. 
          AND, AND WHAT ABOUT LIKE DIGITAL, LIKE GATE ENTRY SYSTEMS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT REALLY DON'T HAVE A COVER? THEY'RE MADE TO BE OUTSIDE. 
          WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY GATE ENTRY SYSTEMS? EVERY GATE ENTRY SYSTEM WE HAS HAS A TV SCREEN IN IT THAT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE NEW, RATHER THAN HAVING THE LITTLE PUSH BUTTON THAT DIALS. 
          BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S PERMITTED AS SIGNAGE. 
          IS IT NOT? HUH? IS THAT PERMITTED AS SIGNAGE? NO, THAT WOULD NOT BE. 
          NO. 
          AND IT'S, THAT WOULD NOT, IT'S ONLY, IT WOULD NOT BE INCLUDED. 
          YEAH. 
          SO MOST SIGN CABINETS THAT ARE, THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE MANUFACTURED, SOME HAVE THE LITTLE LIPS, SOME JUST HAVE THE TOP OF THE CABINET JUST ROLLS OVER WHERE THE SIGN FACE COMES IN. 
          SO THEY BUILD IT DIFFERENTLY AND I JUST DON'T, HOW SO IF, IF THE ALAMO DOESN'T WANT TO PUT UP A A, A COVER OVER THE DEAL OR SOMEBODY IN A, I I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, AND I MAY 
          [01:15:01]
BE AD NAUSEUM AS TO FIGURING OUT EVERY SITUATION, BUT IS THERE IF, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THOSE THINGS? SO YOU'RE SAYING, SO THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL OVERLAY IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE THAT YOU'RE GIVING, UM, THAT WOULD PROTECT AGAINST SOME OF THESE CONCERNS THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING ABOVE AND BEYOND ANY CHANGE TO THE U D C AT THIS POINT? SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN A REALISTIC SITUATION, UM, YOU KNOW, DIGITAL ON-PREMISE SIGN IS, YOU KNOW, PROHIBITED IN, IN MANY OF THESE AREAS LIKE THE RIVERWALK AND THINGS OF THOSE AREAS. 
          SO I THINK YOU TAKE A STEP BACK AND I, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT A REALISTIC EXAMPLE. 
          UM, WHAT I'D BE INTERESTED TO KNOW IS HOW MANY SIGN PERMITS WERE PULLED FOR NEW SIGNAGE, UH, WITHIN THE PAST YEAR THAT WERE NON-DIGITAL FOR ON-PREMISE? IS THAT A NUMBER YOU CAN GET FOR US? THAT MOST WE CAN PULL THAT THOUSANDS, MOST ALL THOUSANDS, I MEAN, PERCENTAGE WISE DIGITAL TO AND TO NON-DIGITAL. 
          I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, 95% OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE PUT UP IN SAN ANTONIO OR NON-DIGITAL SIGNS, WOULD THAT BE, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING. 
          WHAT'S THAT NUMBER ABOUT AT LEAST? YEAH, I MEAN, WE'D HAVE TO PULL IT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I, LIKE I GAVE EARLIER, THERE'S 240 OVER FIVE YEARS ON DIGITAL, SO WE'D HAVE TO PULL HOW MANY PERMITS THAT WE'VE ISSUED FOR ON-PREMISE PERMANENT SIGNS. 
          WE CAN GET THAT INFORMATION. 
          YEAH, BUT IT, BUT IT'S THOUSANDS IN THAT SAME PERIOD. 
          IT, OR WHAT WOULD YOU SAY YOUR GUT, HOW MANY PERMITS DO WE ISSUE A YEAR FOR ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE? SAY MAYBE A FIVE, 300. 
          AROUND 300, SAY THREE TO 500 A YEAR. 
          SO, UH, YOU KNOW, 240. 
          SO IT'S ON THE ORDER OF 5% OR LESS ARE DIGITAL. 
          YEAH. 
          SO MO MOST OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE PERMITTED AND PUT UP  ARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT I CALL STATIC SIGNS. 
          IT'S A NON-CHANGING MESSAGE. 
          MOST OF, I WOULD GUESS THAT MOST OF THEM ARE BACKLIT SIGNS. 
          IS THAT, WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? EXCEPT SOMETIMES WE USE OUTLINE NEON SIGNS ON A FACE INSTEAD OF BACKLIGHTING IT. 
          YEAH. 
          SO HOW WOULD YOU DO A NEON SIGN? SO ACTUALLY THERE'S A ELEMENT WITHIN THE D SS D THAT SPEAKS TO THAT. 
          LET ME PULL THAT UP. 
          ANDREA. 
          M L D RULES THAT NEON IS EXEMPT. 
          NEON LIGHTING IS EXEMPT KIND OF FASTER THAN I DID. 
          OKAY. 
          THIS, UH, AGENDA IS IDENTIFY DIFFERENT KINDS OF LIGHTING. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE I'M GETTING CONFUSED HERE. 
          UM, WHEN I LOOK AT THIS, IT MEANS ALL KINDS OF LIGHTING. 
          I DON'T CARE ABOUT DIGITAL OR YOU KNOW, OR ANYTHING THAT, SO DO WE NEED TO IDENTIFY THAT OR IS IT IDENTIFIED IN THE U D C CODES? I MEAN, WELL, I MEAN, SO YEAH, THIS IS BROAD AND IT'S ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF LIGHTING AND, AND THE PROPOSED CHANGES FALL THROUGHOUT THE, THE CODE TALKING ABOUT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, UH, TO KEEP, YOU KNOW, MEET THAT. 
          SO SAY YOU HAD EXTERNALLY ELIMINATED SIGN, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LIGHTS HAVE TO FACE DOWN, HAS TO BE SHIELDED. 
          IF IT'S INTERNALLY ELIMINATED, IT HAS TO HAVE, PROVIDE SOME SHIELDING. 
          IF IT HAS, IF IT'S DIGITAL, IT'S GONNA HAVE THE LOUVERS TO PROVIDE THAT. 
          SO IT KINDA GO TO EACH ONE OF THOSE TYPES AND TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST, BUT THE, THE MAIN INTENT IS THAT YOU DON'T, YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF SHOOTING THAT ISN'T ALLOWED TO GO BEYOND THE HORIZON TO GO ABOVE THE 90. 
          UM, SO WHATEVER TYPE OF SIGN IT IS, MODIFIES, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT TYPE OF SHOOTING NEEDS TO BE. 
          BUT THE INTENT BEING THAT NO SIGNS WILL, YOU KNOW, ALLOW LIGHTING TO GO UP, UH, FROM THE INITIAL LIGHT SOURCE. 
          SO IT HAS SOME FORM OF SHIELDING. 
          UH, AND ALL THE THREE, YOU KNOW, TYPICALLY IT'S THREE. 
          SO IT'S EXTERNALLY ELIMINATED WITH A LIGHT BULB FACING DOWN ON IT INTERNALLY ELIMINATED WHERE IT HAS LIGHT FACING THAT PUSHES IT OUT THROUGH SOME FACE OR IT'S DIGITAL. 
          AND IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ANYTHING OTHER THAN SIGNS. 
          CORRECT? CORRECT. 
          THIS, I MEAN, THIS IS NORMAL MONUMENTS NO MONUMENT SIGNS. 
          IT WOULD APPLY TO A MONUMENT SIGN. 
          YES. 
          A LIGHT SHOOTS UP TO THE MONUMENT, NOT AT 90 DEGREES, BUT IT A SAY A 45 DEGREE ANGLE. 
          YEAH. 
          I'M NOT SURE. 
          CAN YOU SPEAK TO THAT? SO SMALL MONUMENT SIGNS ENTRY TO A SUBDIVISION. 
          MM-HMM. 
           TYPICALLY YOU HAVE THE LIGHT ON THE GROUND FACING. 
          AND, AND, UM, WOULD THAT BE, HOW IS THAT ADDRESSED BASED ON THE PROPOSED CHANGE? SO THAT WOULD NEED TO BE MODIFIED SO THAT THE LIGHT JUST FACES DOWNWARD. 
          SO WHETHER THAT'S THE LIGHT ATTACHED, THE TOP OF THE SIGNAGE YOU HAVE DIRECTED DOWNWARDS AND SHIELDED OR ILLUMINATED FROM INTERNALLY. 
          I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY MONUMENT SIZE AS FAR AS WHAT THE MATERIAL'S MADE OUT OF. 
          SO NO GROUND LIGHTING SHOOTING TOWARDS A SIGN IS ALLOWED, DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF GROUND LIGHTING, THE ANGLE AND HOW IT'S SHIELDED AND HOW THE SIGNAGE IS SHIELDED, THAT MAY APPLY, BUT IT'S GONNA BE, YOU 
          [01:20:01]
KNOW, IN A CASE BY CASE BASIS, DEPENDING ON HOW THE, THE LIGHTING HAS BEEN DESIGNED FOR THAT SPECIFIC SIGNAGE. 
          SO THE ANSWER IS NO MORE DOWN LIGHTING UPLIGHTING OF SIGNS BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY. 
          BUT IT WOULD ONLY APPLY TO NEW MONUMENT SIGNS OR REHABIL. 
          ARE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OR ARE THEY LIKE NO DISCUSSION, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS? NO, I MEAN THIS IS, WE CAN VOTE. 
          NO, NO, I MEAN, IT, IT'S LIKE WE'VE HAD SIGNS ALL OVER THE CITY AND I MEAN, THIS KIND OF GOES BACK TO AGAIN, EVEN BILLBOARDS. 
          I LOOKING AT BILLBOARDS THAT I LOOK AT THAT HAVE, THEY DON'T HAVE UP LIGHTING. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE POINTING AT THE BILLBOARD AND YOU GO TO A LOT OF THE BILLBOARDS AND YOU GO, CRAP, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THE LIGHT BULBS OUT, YOU COULD SEE THAT THAT PORTION OF THAT BOARD IS NOT BEING LIT BECAUSE THAT LIGHT'S OUT. 
          IT'S NOT SHINING UP AT THE SKY, IT'S SHINING AT THE BOARD. 
          AND I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, I JUST FLEW IN FROM OUTTA TOWN AND THE AMOUNT OF LIGHTS AROUND THE CITY FROM STREET LIGHTS TO LIGHTS ON, BUILDINGS THAT ARE LIGHTING UP THE WHOLE PERIMETERS. 
          AND IT IS, IT'S SO OVERWHELMING. 
          JUST LIKE IF YOU GO TO ANY CITY, VEGAS, WHEREVER YOU GO, THERE'S LIGHTS EVERYWHERE. 
          BUT TO PENALIZE A GUY TRYING TO LIGHT HIS SIGN IN FRONT OF HIS SUBDIVISION OR SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU'RE JUST SHINING DIRECTLY AT THAT, YOU'RE NOT SHINING UP IN THE SKY TRYING TO LIGHT UP THE BIRDS AND THE TREES. 
          YOU'RE SHINING AT A SIGN AND SAYING, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE. 
          YOU GOTTA BUILD A NEW SIGN THAT'S GOTTA HAVE A SHROUD OVER IT. 
          AND, AND IT'S GOTTA LIGHT DOWN BECAUSE IT'S SHINING AT THAT SIGN. 
          IT JUST SEEMS, IT, IT, IT DOESN'T SEEM EQUITABLE TO ME AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ANYWAY, BECAUSE MOST EVERY UP UPLIGHT FIXTURE WE, UH, PUT ON A MONUMENT SIGN IS, UH, SELF ENCLOSED. 
          THE BULB IS SET BACK FROM THE ENCLOSURE. 
          SO IT'S JUST POINTING RIGHT AT THE SIGN. 
          SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION EITHER WAY TO ACCEPT IT, MODIFY IT? I, I WOULD SAY THAT I WOULD PROBABLY MAKE A MOTION NOT TO ACCEPT IT BASED ON THE, THE, JUST THE OVERLYING, UH, WHEN YOU'RE SAYING RE YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE THESE NIGHT SKY FRIENDLY STANDARDS AS RECOMMENDED BY THESE THREE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE NOT CRYSTAL CLEAR, BUT THEY PENALIZE A LOT OF BUSINESSES. 
          I THINK THAT THEIR INTENT IS NOT TO, TO LIGHT THE SKY. 
          THERE'S LIGHTS ALL OVER THE PLACE THAT ARE LIGHTING AND IT, IT JUST SEEMS VERY, UH, NOT VERY CLEAR. 
          AND SO I, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE CAN JUST HAVE A BLANKET RECOMMENDATION, UH, THAT'S NOT THAT REALLY CLEAR AS TO WHY, WHY A LOT OF BUSINESSES ARE ALLOWED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS, BUT THEN YOU'RE PENALIZING, UH, PEOPLE THAT THEIR WHOLE GOAL IS NOT TO, TO LIGHT UP THE TREES AND THE, THE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE NOT POINTING STRAIGHT UP IN THE SKY, OF COURSE A LOT OF HOMES, HOMEOWNERS, THEY HAVE LIGHTS THAT THEY BUY AT HOME DEPOT ALL THE TIME, AND THEY GOT 'EM AND THEY POINT STRAIGHT UP, THERE'S MORE GOING IN SKY. 
          WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT SIGNAGE, ILLUMINATING SIGNAGE AND ILLUMINATED SIGNAGE HERE. 
          I I GET IT, BUT YOU'RE PENALIZING WHATEVER, JUST THOSE PEOPLE WHEN THERE'S 1.5 MILLION HOMES THAT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO LIGHT THE SKY A LOT MORE THAN A FEW SIGNS, WELL, WE'LL GET TO THEM WHEN WE GET TO THAT PART OF THE ORDINANCE. 
           IS THERE ONE STEP AT A TIME. 
          THAT'S WHY PEOPLE MOVE THE COUNTRY. 
          THERE IS A MOTION ON THE FLOOR NOT TO ACCEPT THE PROPOSAL. 
          IS THERE A SECOND? THERE IS A SECOND. 
          OKAY. 
          DISCUSSION BIANCA, THANK YOU. 
          I THINK YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT ABOUT LIGHT POLLUTION IN GENERAL, BUT DON'T WE HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE? I THINK THAT THE CITY HAS DONE THAT IN MANY OF THE ORDINANCES THAT THEY HAVE PASSED WITH M L O D, WITH THEY THEMSELVES ADHERING TO M L O D IN ALL OUR CITY PARKS, OUR GREENWAY TRAIL SYSTEM. 
          UM, THIS IS A VERY COMMON ASK OF NEIGHBORHOODS WHEN A INFILL DEVELOPMENT COMES INTO THEIR COMMUNITY WITH BUSINESSES BEING BUILT SPECIFICALLY ADJACENT TO, UM, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL. 
          YOU TALK ABOUT THE DENSITY THAT THE CITY WANTS TO ADD INTO THE, THE URBAN CORE AND, AND, AND BUILD FOR TOMORROW. 
          ESSENTIALLY WE SEE ALL THESE PEOPLE COMING INTO OUR CITY. 
          AND WITH THAT COMES, YOU KNOW, INTENSITY OF USE POTENTIALLY. 
          IT ALSO BRINGS, UH, SIGNAGE ONTO A PROPERTY THAT MAY NOT HAD SIGNAGE IN THE PAST. 
          AND SO M L O D IS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY TALKED ABOUT AT, AT ZONING. 
          IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY A CONDITION YOU CAN ASK FOR THAT THEY HAVE M L O D LIGHTING. 
          AND SO WHILE WE CAN'T POPULATE ALL THOSE ZONING CASES WHERE THAT WAS A DISCUSSION, IT'S ALSO TO ME, A, UH, A WEATHER VEIN 
          [01:25:01]
OF TELLING THE DIRECTION OF WHERE COMMUNITY WANTS TO SEE LIGHTING GO. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I'LL GIVE YOU AN INSTANCE, A LITTLE PARK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, POCKET PARK, THEY INSTALLED A, A GROUND LIGHTING TO ILLUMINATE A MONUMENT SIGN. 
          UM, UNFORTUNATELY THEY ESTO INSTALLED, THEY DIDN'T SIZE THE LIGHT APPROPRIATELY, AND IT WAS PROBABLY 10 TIMES BRIGHTER THAN IT NEEDED TO BE. 
          AND PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS A MOTORCYCLE HEADLIGHT WHEN THEY WERE DRIVING AROUND THE CURVE APPROACHING THE, THE, UH, THE PARK, THERE WAS NO SHIELD ON THIS LIGHTING. 
          IT WAS JUST A LIGHTING THAT THEY PUT ON. 
          AND IT WAS JUST, IT WASN'T SIZE DRY. 
          BUT WHEN THE CONVERSATION HAD, WAS HAD ABOUT PROPER SHIELDING, PROPER DIRECTIONAL LIGHTING, WE ENDED UP WITH A BETTER RESULT IN THE COMMUNITY THAT DIDN'T RAISE A CAUTIONARY ISSUE FOR DRIVERS. 
          I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A CAUTIONARY ISSUE FOR DRIVERS IN EVERY SITUATION. 
          I THINK THE, THE, UM, THE PURPOSE HERE TODAY IS TO ENSURE THAT FOR THE LIGHTING MOVING FORWARD, THAT YES, WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE A HINDRANCE, BUT WE WANNA CREATE AN EDUCATION. 
          BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOWER THE BRIGHTNESS OF A LIGHT TOO, YOU CAN ALSO POTENTIALLY HAVE SOME ENERGY SAVINGS TOO. 
          AND SO I THINK WHILE WE TALK ABOUT THE COST ON THE FRONT END, I ALWAYS SAY IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT THE COST OF THE OPERATIONAL OVER THE, ITS ENTIRE PERIOD. 
          THERE'S A VERY PROMINENT DOWNTOWN BUILDING WHO HAD A VERY BRIGHT, UH, ILLUMINATION ON THEIR BUILDING. 
          THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH O H P TO GET APPROVAL, THEY WERE IN VIOLATION. 
          WELL, GUESS WHAT? THE ENERGY SAVINGS BY ITSELF AND REDUCING THE BRIGHTNESS OF THAT WAS MONUMENTAL. 
          MONUMENTAL. 
          IT WAS SIGNIFICANT. 
          AND SO I JUST THINK THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT WE CAN SIT HERE AND TALK ABOUT, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO EXPLORE A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL BEFORE WE ADOPT IT OR BEFORE WE CAN TABLE IT. 
          AND SO I JUST WOULD APPEAL TO YOU FROM AN ENERGY CONSERVATION STANDPOINT, FROM A WANTING TO MOVE FORWARD AND, AND BE A LEADER BECAUSE THERE'S NEW TECHNOLOGY TOO. 
          AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE, THE CHALLENGE TOO IS THAT LIGHTS ARE BRIGHTER TODAY THAN THEY'VE EVER BEEN BEFORE. 
          YOU HAVE MORE CAPABILITY TO UTILIZE NEWER TECHNOLOGY IN HOW YOU ELIMINATE SOMETHING. 
          AND SO WITHOUT A, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE IN TAKING ACTION ON THIS TODAY WITHOUT SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, AND I WOULD JUST ASK THAT YOU GIVE US AN, ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK. 
          AND I WANNA WORK WITH STAFFS FOR SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THIS, UM, REGARDING THE DIFFERENCE OF, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE DONE THIS AND WHERE IT'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL. 
          UM, BECAUSE I, I DO UNDERSTAND THE COST OF WHAT IT WOULD, THE UPFRONT COST, YOU KNOW, AND THIS IS NOT FOR PEOPLE TO BE, UM, COMPLYING TO THIS. 
          THIS IS ONLY WHEN SOMETHING IS NEW. 
          AND SO I THINK THAT'S THE IMPORTANT MESSAGE TOO. 
          AND SO FOR, FOR THAT STANDPOINT, I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT WE JUST REALLY HAVEN'T DELVED INTO REGARDING THE ENERGY SAVINGS AND THEN THE TRUE COST. 
          I KNOW THAT WE SAID THE FABRICATION IS 20%, BUT ON WHAT TYPE OF SIGN? AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND HELPING UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, UH, A BACKLOG SIGN AND MAYBE WE GET AN EXAMPLE AND WE SAY, WHAT WOULD IT COST? YOU KNOW, IS THIS M L L O D COMPLIANT? THERE'S A LOT OF SIGNAGE THAT IS TODAY. 
          AND SO ASSUMING THAT WHAT WE HAVE TODAY ISN'T M L O D COMPLIANT IS NOT, UH, I THINK A GOOD POSITION EITHER. 
          AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT SIGNAGE TODAY IS AND WHAT IS NOT AND, AND WHAT THAT TRUE IMPACT IS. 
          AND I DON'T FEEL I HAVE THAT INFORMATION. 
          AND SO BEFORE WE TAKE ACTION, JUST ASK FOR YOU TO RECONSIDER. 
          THANK YOU. 
          AND I, I'M READING THIS AGENDA ITEM AND IT, IT'S, UM, TALKING ABOUT, UH, NIGHT SKY FRIENDLY LIGHTING STANDARDS AND MAXIMUM VALUES AS RECOMMENDED BY THE INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION, WHICH I KNOW SOME PEOPLE FEEL WILL NEVER HAVE DARK SKIES. 
          HOWEVER, THE LAST TWO ARE VERY VALID. 
          ELIMINATING ENGINEERING SOCIETY AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION ON ELIMINATE ELIMINATION. 
          THESE ARE GROUPS THAT FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THAT LIGHTING IS FUNCTIONAL. 
          AND, UH, THEY STILL HAVE PUT OUT STANDARDS THAT STILL ALLOW THAT. 
          SO I, I DON'T, I, I THINK I'M, I WOULD BE HESITANT TO, TO, I WOULD HATE TO SEE IT MOVE FORWARD AT THIS TIME. 
          YEAH. 
          ONE, ONE COMMENT I WOULD MAKE IS THIS IS ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS AS AN OPERATOR WHO PAYS THE ELECTRIC BILL, THAT THERE'S NO COST SAVINGS OVER TIME TO THE UPFRONT COST BECAUSE THE LIGHTING IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE WITHIN THE SIGNED CASE. 
          I WOULD SAY 99% OF ALL BACKLIT SIGNS TODAY ARE L E D BECAUSE OF THAT COST OF OPERATION. 
          I WOULD TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, MOST OPERATORS OF SIGNS THAT, NOT 
          [01:30:01]
NOT BILLBOARDS, BUT SIGNS WHEN THE BALLOT GOES OUT IN A SIGN, AT LEAST AT OUR COMPANY, THE, WE'RE JUST CHANGING IT OUT TO L E D BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER TO PUT THE L E D BULBS IN AND IT IS TO, UH, REWORK THE FLUORESCENT TUBING AND THE BALLAST. 
          AND IS THAT WHAT Y'ALL ARE FINDING THAT MOST A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE DOING? YEAH. 
          OUR CLIENTS LIKE H E B AND GOLD'S GYM, WE'RE JUST RETROFITTING ALL OF THEIR OLD SIGNS WITH LEDS RIGHT NOW TO SAVE THOSE COSTS, CORRECT? YEAH. 
          AND SO THE, THE ENERGY SAVINGS PART, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GONE THROUGH LIKE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR PROPERTIES AND REPLACED OUT ALL THE FLUORESCENT BULBS, ALL THE INCANDESCENT BULBS, ALL THE HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM, ALL THE MERCURY VAPOR LIGHTS WITH L E D. 
          AND BECAUSE THE PAYBACK PERIOD IS, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN 12 MONTHS, AND THE CITY HAS PROGRAMS TO GO RETROFIT SIGNS. 
          SO IF THE CITY REALLY BELIEVES IN DARK SKIES, THEY CAN COME UP WITH A PROGRAM THAT SAYS, OKAY, WE'LL KICK IN X NUMBER OF DOLLARS TO GO RETROFIT SIGNS THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE. 
          SO I DON'T, I HAVE NO FEELING EITHER WAY OF POSTPONING IT. 
          WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW FOR FOUR MONTHS, FIVE MONTHS, AND WE'RE GETTING TO THE POINT THAT WE NEED TO START MAKING CONCLUSIONS TO GET THIS THING TO THE BIG BOARD AND ONTO TO THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE, UH, AS PART BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY KIND OF CODE THAT HASN'T BEEN ADOPTED YET. 
          SO I WILL LEAVE IT TO THE MAKER OF THE MOTION AND THE SECOND WHETHER THEY WANT TO POSTPONE IT AND MOVE FORWARD, FORWARD. 
          CAN I MAKE ONE CLARIFYING COMMENT? YES. 
          UM, I KNOW THAT THAT BLANCA WAS MENTIONING BRIGHTNESS. 
          THAT IS NOT ONE COMPONENT OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. 
          I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S VERY CLEAR. 
          'CAUSE I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME CONFUSION ABOUT THAT. 
          COLOR TEMPERATURE IS NOT BRIGHTNESS, IT IS A, JUST A COLOR TEMPERATURE AT THAT. 
          SO WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR THE INCREASE OR DECREASE OF BRIGHTNESS IN THIS, THIS AMENDMENT SUGGESTION. 
          WE'RE, WE'RE ASKING FOR LIMITATION ON THE COLOR TEMPERATURE. 
          THAT'S ALL. 
          SO I, I THINK WHAT'S THE, THE PROBLEM ISSUE THAT I SEE IS, IS, IS THE, NOT THE CONFUSION, BUT NOT THE CLARITY OF WHAT THAT ENTAILS, OF, OF, WITH THE, THE WHOLE, THIS WHOLE CHANGE IN THIS, UH, CHAPTER. 
          IF, IF THIS AMENDMENT, I JUST THINK IF, IF THERE'S, WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION, I DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD TAKE IT TO THE BIG BOARD WHEN WE GET TO THE BIG BOARD, BRING IT UP ANOTHER PRESENTATION THAT BRINGS MORE CLARITY AND LET THE GROUP DECIDE. 
          I'M OKAY WITH THAT TOO, BUT I JUST THINK RIGHT NOW FOR US TO JUST PASS IT, I, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH IT. 
          CAN YOU MAYBE GO INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL OF WHAT KIND OF CLARITY YOU ARE REQUESTING? JUST BECAUSE IN THE ACTUAL CODE, THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE RECOMMENDED ARE FAIRLY, I, I FEEL THEY'RE FAIRLY WELL OUTLINED, BUT IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT IS NOT CLEAR, I WOULD DEFINITELY LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THAT IS AHEAD OF TIME SO WE CAN ADDRESS THAT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. 
          WELL, IF YOU, IF YOU WOULD SAY, OKAY, THAT YOU WERE REQUIRED TO USE ON ALL NEW SIGN MANUFACTURING, THIS KIND OF LIGHT, IT WOULD BE EASY TO EVALUATE WHAT EFFECT THAT IS. 
          BUT WHAT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS KIND OF LIGHT? SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE MAKING BROAD, IN OTHER WORDS, A SUBDIVISION SIGN IS, AT THIS POINT, WOULD HAVE TO BE MOVED TO BE DOWN LIT, CORRECT? THAT WOULD BE CORRECT. 
          WELL LIT, LIT IN A CAPACITY THAT IT DOES NOT CAUSE LIGHT TO PRO PROCEED PAST THE 90 DEGREE OR ANY EXCESSIVE GLARE AND NEW NO, I, I UNDERSTAND. 
          BUT, BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT WHAT THAT MEANS IS NOT CLEARLY, AT LEAST TO ME FINE, WHAT THAT MEANS. 
          OKAY. 
          WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE JACK SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MONUMENT SIGNS, AT LEAST PART OF THE CONVERSATION. 
          AND, UM, IT'S JUST UGLY TO PUT A FIXTURE ON TOP OF A MONUMENT SIGN INSTEAD OF UPLIGHTING IT WITH A GROUND FIXTURE THAT IT HAS ITS SELF ENCLOSED, UM, BULB INSIDE. 
          WHY, WHY WOULD YOU WANNA MAKE A SIGN LESS, UH, AESTHETICALLY PLEASING BY PUTTING FIXTURES ON TOP OF THE SIGN? IT MAKES NO SENSE. 
          I, I MEAN, THERE'S NOT A, IT, IT, THERE IS, IT'S NOT THE ONLY OPTION IS MY UNDERSTANDING. 
          THAT'S NOT THE ONLY OPTION TO PUT 'EM ON THE TOP AND AIM 'EM DOWN BASED ON SHIELDING AND BASED ON THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LIGHT OR THE, UH, THE, UM, UH, THE RATING OF THE LIGHT, LIKE THE, THE, THE WATTAGE ON IT? WELL, MOST OF THE ONES WE DO ARE INTERNALLY 
          [01:35:01]
LIT, BUT EVERY NOW AND THEN WE GROUND LIGHT ONE AND THE LIGHT ONLY SHINES ON THE MONUMENTS. 
          YEAH. 
          SO SINCE THERE IS NOT A MOTION TO POSTPONE CONSIDERATION TO A LATER DATE, AND THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR, UH, ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. 
          HMM. 
          LET'S CALL FOR THE NEXT QUICK. 
          I, I'M NOT PLEASE, I, I JUST THINK AS PRESENTED, I WOULD, I WOULD, UH, HAVE THE SAME MOTION. 
          OKAY. 
          SO ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION PLEASE SAY AYE. 
          AYE JOE. 
          AYE. 
          I'M GONNA ABSTAIN. 
          UH, NAY. 
          NAY. 
          OKAY. 
          SO IF YOU'LL RECORD, THERE'S TWO IN FAVOR, ONE ABSTENTION AND THE TWO NON-VOTING MEMBERS VOTED NO. 
          OKAY, THANK YOU. 
          I JUST HAVE A COMMENT THAT I APPRECIATE YOUR, UM, TENACITY TO BRING THIS FORWARD BECAUSE WE DO SEE THE WEATHER VEIN. 
          WE DO SEE THAT AS A CONCERN FOR THE COMMUNITY, UM, WITH RESPECT TO, UH, LIGHTING IN THE COMMUNITY SPILLAGE AND SO FORTH, AND HOW THAT IMPACTS THE OVERALL QUALITY OF LIFE. 
          I THINK THERE MAY BE, UM, INITIATIVES FROM COUNCIL THAT COULD COME FORWARD TO ENACT THAT OUTSIDE OF IT, COMING THROUGH THIS ORGANIC PROCESS. 
          UM, AND, AND I THINK THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT TO BE EVALUATED, BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, WE'RE NOT VOTING MEMBERS. 
          THIS IS NOT A BALANCED, UH, REPRESENTATION OF THE CITY FOR WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE. 
          AND, AND SO THAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME. 
          WE SAW THAT AT THE, UM, THE PTAC, THAT THAT IS A MORE BALANCED, UH, PANEL THAT HEARS THESE CONSIDERATION REQUESTS. 
          AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, TAKE THAT BACK FROM THE CITY. 
          YOU KNOW, WE TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, WE TALK ABOUT REPRESENTATION AND EQUITY AND EQUALITY IN THESE SITUATIONS, AND WE WANNA ENSURE THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT CHANGES TO POLICY, THAT IT'S DONE SO IN THAT LENS. 
          SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          NO, AND IF COUNCIL WANTS TO BRING IT FORWARD, OR SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO A FIVE SIGNATURE MEMO, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD HAVE PASSED THIS, UH, WHEN THEY DID THE U D C CHANGES THAT MADE IT BLANKET ACROSS THE CITY, THEY CHOSE NOT TO. 
          WE DON'T, I MEAN, I THINK THE MESSAGE IS, IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PASS THIS KIND OF STUFF, NEED TO UNDERSTAND MORE OF WHAT IT EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS. 
          BECAUSE I WOULD TELL YOU, YOU'VE MADE THREE PRESENTATIONS AND I, I CONSIDER MYSELF FAIRLY EDUCATED IN HOW THINGS WORK, AND I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS. 
          WELL, I WILL STATE THAT IT, IT DID PASS WITHIN THE M L O D. 
          SO WHAT I'M JUST WAS HOPING FOR WAS TO BRING THE ENTIRE CITY INTO THIS LEVEL OF COMPLIANCE ACROSS THE BOARD, BECAUSE IT ALREADY EXISTS IN A PART OF THE CITY AS IT STANDS. 
          NO, I, I UNDERSTAND. 
          BUT THEY, THEY DID THAT FOR A SPECIFIC REASON TO KEEP THE MILITARY BASES IN SAN ANTONIO. 
          THEY COULD HAVE MADE THE REQUIREMENT ALL OVER THE CITY BLANKET. 
          THEY CHOSE, THE COUNCIL CHOSE NOT TO DO THAT. 
          AND IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS AS IT MOVES FORWARD. 
          COLLEEN AND I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT, UM, STAFF DID GO THROUGH A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE 67 PAGE, UH, THING THAT SPECIFIED HOW, HOW THE CODE WOULD CHANGE AND WITH, WITH THIS, SO I, I, I CAN'T SAY, AND, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE SIGN PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND IT BETTER THAN I CAN. 
          SO I, I CAN'T SAY THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY DETAIL THERE. 
          NO, I WASN'T SAYING THAT. 
          WE DON'T HAVE DETAIL. 
          WE HAVE A LOT OF DETAIL INFORMATION, BUT AS A PERSON WHO IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE MINUTIAE OF THE SIGNS, I COULDN'T VOTE EITHER WAY. 
          AND THAT'S WHY I ABSTAIN BECAUSE I JUST DON'T, UM, YOU KNOW, GIVE ME A, A PRACTICAL EXAMPLE OF WHAT THAT MEANS. 
          AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO DARK SKIES, BUT I, I UNFORTUNATELY OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS HAVE PROBABLY SPENT 200 TRIPS FLYING OVER THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. 
          AND WHAT I SEE MOSTLY OF LIGHTING, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU FLY OVER NEIGHBORHOODS AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE STREETLIGHTS AND YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, HOUSE SUBDIVISIONS BEING LIT UP AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, AND, AND IF I 
          [01:40:01]
REMEMBER CORRECTLY, YOU SAID VERY LITTLE OF THE LIGHT POLLUTION IS COMING FROM SIGNAGE. 
          IS THAT A, A SMALLER PORTION COMPARED TO STREET LIGHTING? I DIDN'T GIVE EXACT NUMBERS AND I, I PLEASE, YEAH, I DID NOT GIVE EXACT NUMBERS BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THEM, THE SEVERAL NUMBERS WE'RE GIVEN OUT TODAY WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIATING BACKUP. 
          BUT THE, THE ISSUE IS THAT WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS. 
          I CAN'T MAKE IMPROVEMENTS IN THIS COMMITTEE ON YOUR STREETLIGHTS OR THE LIGHTS THAT RESIDENTIAL HOMES USE, BECAUSE THIS IS JUST FOR SIGNAGE. 
          NO, I, I UNDERSTAND. 
          NEXT ITEM, PLEASE. 
          UH, THAT WAS THE LAST ITEM FOR THE AGENDA CHAIR. 
          SO CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY GO OVER WHAT'S OUTSTANDING? WE HAVE THE, UH, THE, THIS ISSUE THAT, SO CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, UM, WHAT WE HAVE FROM TODAY'S MEETING, TWO OF THE AGENDA ITEMS ARE STILL OUT THERE. 
          UH, WHAT WE'LL BE DOING ON THE SMALL SIGNS, UH, TEMPORARY SIGN, UH, ANNUAL PERMIT, WE'LL BE EVALUATING THAT. 
          WE'LL LOOK AND SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT OUR OPTIONS MIGHT BE THROUGH ZONING OR THROUGH SOME OF FORM OF C F O, YOU KNOW, STIPULATION. 
          SO WE'LL, WE'LL VET THAT AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO WITH EXCEPTION NUMBER ONE ON TRYING TO IMPROVE, WHO CAN, YOU KNOW, PULL THAT PERMIT AND TRY TO LIMIT, UM, YOU KNOW, SEEING THAT BE ALL THROUGHOUT THE CITY, WHETHER IT BE THROUGH ZONING OR SOME OTHER MEANS. 
          WE'LL LOOK AND SEE WHAT WE ABLE TO DO THROUGH THAT. 
          AND THEN ALSO WE'LL ADD SOME WORDING ON THERE ABOUT THE, UH, USING THE STICKER. 
          IN ADDITION TO THAT. 
          UH, THE NEXT ONE IS THE CONVERSION. 
          UH, SO FROM THIS PUSH FROM THIS COMMITTEE AND THE WORKING GROUP, WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL ALLOW THE, THE SURVEY TO CONCLUDE THROUGH THE END OF THIS MONTH SO THAT WE HAVE ALL THAT INFORMATION. 
          BUT WHILE DOING THAT, WE'LL ALSO START WORKING WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM AND, UH, SOME OF THE COMMUNITY OR SOME OF THE INDUSTRY TO HELP US PROVIDE SOME CODIFICATION OF THAT PROPOSED DRAFT OF THE CONVERSION OF FORD ONE. 
          AND THEN FINALLY, UH, WE ALSO HAVE, UH, THE ONE THAT WE HAVE THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS ON, WHICH IS THE GATEWAY CON HILL COUNTRY GATEWAY CORRIDOR ALONG I 10 U T SS A BOULEVARD THROUGH THE CITY LIMITS. 
          UH, WE HAVE TWO MEETINGS SCHEDULED FOR THAT, UH, NEXT TWO, NEXT MONDAY, FEBRUARY 20TH AT LEON SPRINGS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AT 6:00 PM AND THEN ALSO ONE IN OUR TRAINING ROOM ON WEDNESDAY, SEP, FEBRUARY 22ND AT 1:30 PM OR TWO O'CLOCK. 
          TWO O'CLOCK. 
          RIGHT. 
          UH, SO WE'LL HAVE THOSE TWO COMMUNITY MEETINGS. 
          I'LL GET SOME FEEDBACK FROM, FROM THOSE COMMUNITY MEETINGS AND BRING BACK THAT PROPOSED CHANGE OF THE HILL HILL COUNTRY GATEWAY CORRIDOR ON PREMISE DIGITAL SIGN ALLOWANCES, UH, TO THIS COMMITTEE. 
          SO THOSE WILL BE THE LAST THREE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE. 
          UH, TECHNICALLY TWO ITEMS WITH THE CONVERSION, UH, ITEM NINE DASH ONE AND AND SEVEN DASH ONE. 
          BUT THOSE ARE ALL THE PENDING ITEMS THAT WE HAVE AT THE CONCLUSION OF, UH, TODAY'S MEETING. 
          OH MY GOD. 
          LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL. 
          SO I, SO HERE'S WHAT, HERE'S WHAT I WOULD ASK IS, IS THAT Y'ALL GO AHEAD AND PREPARE A DRAFT OF THE CONVERSION? YES, SIR. 
          YEAH, WE, WE, YOU CIRCULATE IT BEFORE THE MEETING TO ALL THE INTERESTED PARTIES FOR COMMENT. 
          UH, YOU GET THAT COMMENT BACK. 
          WE MAY CONVENE ANOTHER, UH, WHAT I CALL TASK FORCE MEETING JUST TO GO OVER IT. 
          AND, AND IF WE'RE GONNA DO THAT, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE BY ZOOM IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH A ZOOM MEETING AND WE CAN, JOSEPH DOESN'T HAVE ANY NO, IT'S A WORKING GROUP. 
          SO WE CAN DO ANYTHING WE WANT WITH THAT ONE. 
          AND TO MAKE IT EASY WHERE WE ALL DON'T HAVE TO TRAS DOWNTOWN AND ASSIGN PEOPLE THAT WANT TO PARTICIPATE, UH, THE BILLBOARD COMPANIES THAT WANT TO PARTICIPATE, IT MAKES IT EASIER WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE FROM ALL OVER TO GET HERE TO GO OVER IT ONE TIME BEFORE IT COMES BACK TO THIS GROUP TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LANGUAGE, AND WE'VE COVERED EVERY AREA THAT NEEDS TO BE COVERED, AND EVERYBODY, BOTH SIDES ARE HAPPY WITH THE LANGUAGE. 
          AND THEN WE'LL BRING THAT BACK. 
          AND THEN, UH, ALSO, UH, THE, THE LAST THING WE'LL DEAL WITH IS THE HILL COUNTRY. 
          THE RECOMMENDATION ON THE HILL COUNTRY AFTER WE HEAR, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S COMMENT THERE, UH, HOPEFULLY THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER TURNOUT AT THOSE MEETINGS THAN THEY HAD AT ALL THE, THE ASSIGNED COMMITTEE HEARINGS. 
          I THINK YOU HAD WHAT, A TOTAL OF FIVE OR 10 PEOPLE AT ALL OF THOSE? LESS THAN FIVE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND YEAH, DEFINITELY. 
          HOPEFULLY THERE'S MORE TURNOUT FROM THOSE, YOU KNOW, THEN WE'LL BE PUSHING THE SAME ITEMS AT THOSE MEETINGS. 
          AND I DON'T IF THAT INDICATES PEOPLE DON'T CARE OR PEOPLE WEREN'T, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T GET ENOUGH NOTICE. 
          BUT THERE'S PROBABLY NOTHING IN THE PROPOSAL THAT 
          [01:45:02]
STIRRED EVERYBODY'S RANK OR WHAT, WHAT'S, CAN YOU JUST WITHOUT HAVING TO LOOK AT IT, 'CAUSE WE CAN LOOK AT IT JUST BEFORE WE END. 
          WHAT A BRIEF TAKEAWAY FROM WHAT THE SURVEY WELL, AS OF LOOKING AT IT YESTERDAY, UM, I WOULD SAY IT'S 50 50. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THERE'S SOME CONSENSUS THAT THEY DO WANNA SEE LESS SIGNS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, SOME COMMENTS WERE TAKE 'EM ALL DOWN , OF COURSE. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS AT LEAST, UM, 50% OF THE APP OF THE RESPONDENTS WERE IN FAVOR OF A, OF A SWAP, OF A CONVERSION OF, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT, I'LL, I'LL TAKE SOME DOWN. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S, THEY WOULD LIKE SOME MORE INFORMATION. 
          YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA CODIFY. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, THAT BROUGHT UP BRIGHTNESS AS A CONCERN. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, ONCE AGAIN, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE AN EDUCATIONAL PROCESS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT SIGNS FALL WITHIN THE CITY OF SAN SAN ANTONIO. 
          SOME OF THESE ON-PREM OFF-PREMISE SIGNS MIGHT BE TOO BRIGHT AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT WE HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. 
          UH, BUT THEN ALSO, UH, YOU KNOW, THE ON-PREMISE VERSUS OFF-PREMISE. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, SO IF THEY, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE SOME LARGE OFF ON-PREMISE SIGNS. 
          I MEAN, AN ON-PREMISE SIGN COULD BE, YOU KNOW, OVER 300 SQUARE FEET DIGITAL AND, YOU KNOW, YOU SEE THAT, YOU'RE GONNA ASSUME THAT'S A BILLBOARD PORS DEALERSHIP. 
          IT'S HARD TO, TO SEND, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THOSE TWO AND SAY, WELL, THAT'S A BILLBOARD, THAT'S NOT A BILLBOARD, UH, FOR THE LAYMAN. 
          SO THAT, THAT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING WE'LL, UH, WORK THROUGH ON THE EDUCATIONAL SIDE AS WE TALK ABOUT THIS. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, AND WE'LL, WE'LL PUSH THIS ONE HEAVILY IN THIS COMMUNITY MEETING. 
          I MEAN, THE MO FOCUS OF THIS, THESE TWO COMING UP IS THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR, BUT THERE IS SOME OVERLAP IN A LOT OF THE SAME, UH, CONCERNS AND CITIZENS, UH, FOR BOTH. 
          SO, WE'LL, WE'LL BE ADDRESSING THAT ONE BECAUSE WE NEED TO HIGHLIGHT, YOU KNOW, THE GATEWAY CORRIDOR IS SPECIFIC TO ON-PREMISE DIGITAL VERSUS OFF-PREMISE. 
          BUT YOU KNOW, THERE IS PROPOSAL OUT THERE FOR OFF-PREMISE, UH, WHICH COULD FALL WITHIN THAT SAME CORRIDOR. 
          AND THEN HOW MANY RESPONSES HAVE YOU HAD? THE OFF-PREMISE COULD FALL WITHIN THAT SAME, UH, CORRIDOR. 
          UM, I, I'M SORRY, I MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT OFF PREMISE DIGITAL'S RESTRICTED AT THAT? NO, FROM THE WORKING GROUP. 
          THE WHOLE IDEA WAS THE ONLY PLACE THAT WE'RE LIMITING IS THE, YOU, THE, UH, COMING FROM THE AIRPORT DOWN TO THE DOWNTOWN AREA AND THEN THE HISTORICAL OVERLAYS. 
          IF, I THINK THE DISCUSSION WAS, IF WE TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING PROTECT , CHANGING THAT HILL COUNTRY GATEWAY PORTAL FOR THAT AS WELL. 
          AND I DON'T THINK IT WAS . 
          NO. 
          THE ONLY RULES ON THAT ONE IS THAT THEY'RE PROHIBITED DIGITAL, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T INSTALL NEW, BUT THERE'S NO PROHIBITION OF, OF UPDATING AND MODIFYING. 
          OKAY. 
          I'LL LOOK UP. 
          YEAH. 
          OKAY. 
          SO, SO HOW MANY, HOW MANY SURVEY RESPONSES HAVE YOU GOT TO DATE? LESS THAN A HUNDRED. 
          ROUGHLY A HUNDRED. 
          OKAY. 
          YEAH. 
          IS THAT, AND I JUST WANNA SAY FROM P TTAC, WE HAD WHAT, 114 PEOPLE FOR ALL OF THOSE AMENDMENTS. 
          SO I THINK WE'RE DOING A STELLAR JOB AT, WE'RE AT A HUNDRED RIGHT NOW AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN DONE THE PUBLIC MEETINGS. 
          AND YOU'RE GONNA REFERENCE THE SURVEY WHEN YOU DO THE PUBLIC MEETINGS TOO, RIGHT? CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          THAT'S WHY WE WANTED TO EXTEND IT PAST THAT MEETING. 
          YEAH. 
          UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAD THAT OUT THERE. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? YES, JEREMY? I NOTICED THERE'S A WORD MISSING ON THE CONVERSION, UH, PROPOSED DRAFT WHERE WE LIMITED I 37 FROM JONES MALTSBERGER TO DOWNTOWN. 
          IT WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY SOUTH JONES MALTSBERGER. 
          'CAUSE THERE WAS TWO JONES MALTSBERGER. 
          YES. 
          THAT THAT IS CORRECT. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT, THAT'S MY, SO YOU NEED TO ADD THE WORD SOUTH WHEREVER JONES MALT. 
          YES. 
          IT'S, SO BASICALLY RIGHT WHERE IT CROSS, IT'S FROM JONES MALTSBERGER INSIDE LOOP FOUR 10 TO DOWNTOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          AND MAYBE THAT'S A BETTER WAY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY. 
          I'M NOT SURE. 
          IT'S NORTH AND SOUTH. 
          I, I, YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO I THINK IT'S JUST JONES SMALL. 
          YEAH, WE'RE GO TO CODE INSIDE. 
          WE'LL FIGURE OUT WHAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, THE PROPER JURISDICTION. 
          BUT YEAH. 
          SOUTH OF FOUR 10. 
          YEAH. 
          BASICALLY WE'LL GET THE LANGUAGE RIGHT TO DOWNTOWN. 
          THAT THAT IS THE INTENT. 
          THE DRAFTER APOLOGIZES. 
          'CAUSE I, IT'S LIKE I DON'T GO THAT WAY, SO I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. 
          THERE'S TWO JONES SMOKER. 
          YEAH. 
          ANY OTHER COMMENTS? YES, SIR. 
          YES. 
          QUESTION AND A COMMENT QUESTION AND A COMMENT. 
          UM, I'D LIKE TO APPEAL THAT THE, THE ISSUE OF RELOCATION OR PERMITS, DEMOLITION PERMITS AS HAVING BEEN DONE IN THE PAST, BEING ABLE TO APPLY BECAUSE THIS WOULD TAKE EFFECT WHAT, SEPTEMBER THE FIRST. 
          OKAY. 
          IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN I'M GONNA BE RUSHED INTO BUILDING A NEW STRUCTURE WITH FOUR TO SIX HALL OF FAME, 400 WATT BULB SHOOTING INTO THE AIR. 
          IF YOU FLY OVER A BILLBOARD, YOU CAN SEE IT. 
          IF YOU LOOK AT A DIGITAL FROM ALL AROUND, WE ALL KNOW THE LIGHTING ASPECTS OF THE DIGITAL, BUT I WANT PEEL THAT 
          [01:50:01]
HERE. 
          HERE IS WHAT I SUGGEST IS THIS HAS ONE MORE GO OF ANYTHING WE'VE DECIDED SO FAR TO THE, UH, THE FULL BOARD, THE JACK CHAIRS. 
          SO YOU'RE WELCOME TO ASK THAT IT BE RECONSIDERED AT THAT LEVEL. 
          THERE'S ANOTHER LEVEL, YOU KNOW, I, I AM ASSUMING THIS, YOU KNOW, OUT OF EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, THE SIGN ORDINANCE, THIS PROBABLY WILL GET THE MOST ATTENTION WHEN IT GETS TO COUNCIL. 
          SO THERE'S ANOTHER GO WITH THAT. 
          UH, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS YOU WRITE THE REASONS AND, AND PROVIDE SOME SAMPLE LANGUAGE. 
          THERE'S ONE MORE WORKING GROUP MEETING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BEFORE IT COMES BACK HERE, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU MAKE YOUR CASE AND THOSE, THERE'S THREE PEOPLE THAT I WOULD SAY YOU NEED TO HAVE THAT VISIT WITH BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN APPETITE AMONG THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE WORKING GROUP TO, YOU KNOW, OPEN THE THING BACK UP WHERE WE START FROM SCRATCH. 
          BUT IF YOU CAN CONVINCE THEM THAT IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO IN THE WHY, THAT MAY HELP YOUR CASE. 
          AND DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YOU SAID QUESTION WAS THIS TAKES EFFECT SEPTEMBER THE FIRST? NO, NO, THIS HASN'T EVEN BEEN PASSED YET THAT, YEAH, SO, SO THAT LEADS ME INTO KIND OF A QUICK, YOU KNOW, SO MY EXECUTIVE TEAM HAS BEEN PUSHING ME, YOU KNOW, UD C'S WRAPPED UP, ICOS HAVE BEEN WRAPPED UP. 
          THIS ONE'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WE'RE AIMING FOR P C D C IN FEBRUARY. 
          OF COURSE THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. 
          THESE COMMUNITY MEETINGS CAME UP. 
          UH, WE ARE AIMING FOR TRYING TO GET THIS TO P C D C PLANNING A COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, UH, WHICH IS A CITY COUNCIL, UH, GROUP THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO GO TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          THAT IS MARCH 23RD. 
          SO I AM GOING TO BE PUSHING TO SEE IF WE CAN, YOU KNOW, BY NO MEANS TRYING TO SHORTCUT THE SYSTEM, UH, BUT I WILL BE PUSHING TO TRY TO GET MEETINGS IN PLACE. 
          BUT IN ORDER FOR THIS PROCESS TO HAPPEN, WE GOTTA COMPLETE NEXT WEEK'S COMMUNITY MEETINGS. 
          WE NEED TO DIGEST THAT, THE INFORMATION THAT COMES OUTTA THAT PLUS THE SURVEY FOR THE TWO SIGNIFICANT ITEMS THAT ARE STILL LEFT. 
          WE'LL NEED TO MEET AS A COMMUNITY, AS A COMMITTEE TO DIGEST THOSE TWO AND MAKE A PROPOSAL TO THE FULL BOARD. 
          I NEED TO MEET WITH THE FULL BOARD. 
          I ASSUME THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA TAKE TWICE. 
          I, MAYBE WE'LL GET IT DONE IN ONE, BUT I'M GONNA TRY TO PLAN IN ABOUT TWICE, WHICH MEANS I WOULD NEED TO BE KIND OF WRAPPED UP BY MARCH 14TH OR SO IN ABOUT A MONTH FROM NOW, FROM THE FULL BOARD FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO GO TO, UH, P C D C, UH, MARCH 23RD. 
          YEAH. 
          IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, BY MEANS I'M NOT GONNA FORCE THE ISSUE, BUT I'M GOING TO JUST KIND OF, YOU KNOW, MAKE OURSELVES HAVE ENOUGH MEETINGS AND KIND OF PUSH THE, YOU KNOW, PUSH THIS GROUP TO MEET WHEN POSSIBLE. 
          UH, SO WE, IF WE CAN MAKE IT GREAT, IF WE CAN HAVE ALL THE, THE DISCUSSION AND GET THE FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT WE NEED TO, UH, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S JUST KIND OF WHAT I, MY GOAL IS TO TRY TO MAKE THAT P C D C FOR MARCH 23RD, UH, SO WE CAN AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, SEE WHERE WE STAND ON, ON MOVING FORWARD. 
          OKAY. 
          SO CAN WE DO THIS TO MEET AND I, I'M 50 50 ON WHETHER WE'RE, IF I HAD TO BET ON WHETHER WE'RE GONNA MEET THAT SCHEDULE, BUT WE'LL TRY. 
          AND SO, BUT CAN WE GO AHEAD AND GET THE WORKING GROUP, UH, UH, MEETING THE ZOOM MEETING SCHEDULED SO THAT IT, AT LEAST WE HAVE A TARGET DAY. 
          IT MAY GET MOVE, BUT WE'RE EVERYBODY, THE MOST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE. 
          SO CAN WE SEND OUT LIKE A DOODLE POLL WITH A COUPLE OF DAYS, UM, EITHER LATE NEXT WEEK OR EARLY THE FOLLOWING WEEK? WELL, DO WE WANT TO WAIT UNTIL THE, AFTER THE 28TH WHEN THE SURVEY ENDS? SO I, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S A TUESDAY, THE 28TH. 
          UM, SO I CAN DEFINITELY AIM FOR SOMETHING THAT THURSDAY OR FRIDAY RIGHT AFTERWARDS. 
          YEAH, BECAUSE, SO I CAN GET THE RESULTS OF THAT, SENDING IT OUT TO EVERYBODY. 
          HEY, HERE'S THE RESULTS FROM THE SURVEY. 
          UM, LET'S ADD THAT INTO OUR CONVERSATIONS. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT I WOULD ALSO, THE MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SURVEY INFORMATION IS TO GET THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE CORRECT. 
          YEAH. 
          WE'LL CONTINUE TO, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. 
          WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE THAT READY TO GO AND WE CAN GET THAT OUT A WEEK OR SO BEFORE THAT MEETING. 
          SO THAT WOULD REALLY, WE TRY TO WORK ON SOMETHING AND HAVE SOMETHING OUT BY MID NEXT WEEK. 
          YEAH. 
          'CAUSE I, I, THAT IS GONNA BE AS IMPORTANT AS ANY MORE INPUT THAT WE GET INTO IT BECAUSE IF, IF WE CAN'T AGREE ON WHAT THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE IS, THEN YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO POINT IN TRYING TO MOVE EVERYTHING ELSE ON BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WON'T TAKE THREE OR FOUR MEETINGS TO GET THAT WORKED OUT. 
          CORRECT. 
          BIG TEST. 
          JOSEPH . 
          JEREMY, TO HIS POINT, DOES HE NEED TO FILE AN APPEAL AS YOU KNOW, FORMALLY? WELL, I MEAN, NO. 
          I MEAN, AT THIS POINT IT'S, IT'S 
          [01:55:01]
A WORKING GROUP AND, YOU KNOW, SITTING IN THAT MEETING AND, AND, AND PUSH FOR IT. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY AS ANYTHING GOES THROUGH THIS, I MEAN, YOU CAN COME TO THIS COMMITTEE, ASK THIS COMMITTEE TO, TO WEIGH THE PROPOSAL, THE FINAL VOTE THAT COMES OUTTA THIS COMMITTEE WILL GO TO THE P UH, FULL, THE FULL BOARD. 
          UM, SIMILAR TO, UH, THE NICE GUYS. 
          THEY CAN GO TO THE FULL BOARD AND PRESENT A REQUEST THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST A, THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OR NOT APPROVAL TO THE FULL BOARD. 
          THE FINAL VOTE GOES TO THE FULL BOARD. 
          BUT EVEN THEN, ANYTHING CAN CHANGE AFTER THE FULL BOARD TO P C D C. 
          AND ANYTHING FROM P C D C CAN CHANGE, UH, TO CITY COUNCIL. 
          SO THERE'S AN OPEN VENUE FOR DISCUSSION. 
          UM, YOU KNOW, TAKE IT TO YOUR COUNCIL MEMBERS, TAKE IT TO, UM, THE BOARD MEMBERS. 
          YOU KNOW, I WENT TAKE IT TO THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT MIGHT BE GETTING A LITTLE BIT IN THE WEEDS OF, OF OPEN MEETINGS AND STUFF. 
          BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING'S OPEN TO COUNCIL, UH, P C D SIM MEMBERS OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE FIVE MEMBERS ON THAT COUNCIL. 
          YOU CAN LOOK UP AND SEE WHO THEY ARE AND START REACHING OUT TO THEM AT ANY TIME, UH, FOR THIS PROCESS. 
          BUT THOSE ARE THE AVENUES. 
          THERE'LL BE THREE VOTES, UH, YOU KNOW, FOUR VOTES TECHNICALLY, UH, BEFORE THIS IS FINALIZED. 
          I GUESS P C D C DOESN'T OFFICIALLY VOTE. 
          THEY JUST RECOMMENDED SOME CHANGES OR NO CHANGES OR GO BACK AND, YOU KNOW, DO IT AGAIN. 
          UH, TYPE APPROACH. 
          THOSE ARE REALLY THE THREE THINGS THEY GIVE US. 
          TAKE IT TO COUNCIL, TAKE IT TO COUNCIL'S OUR RECOMMENDATION, OR GO BACK AND TAKE IT BACK TO THE PUBLIC OR THE COMMITTEE. 
          WELL, AND, AND WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST AGAIN IS THAT WE HAVE THREE COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT ARE AS PART OF THIS GROUP, THAT YOU FLOAT THAT IDEA BY EITHER EMAIL OR PERSONAL CONTACT WITH THEM. 
          AND JEREMY CAN PROVIDE YOU CONTACT INFORMATION. 
          UH, THE SECOND THING IS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, TO COME UP WITH SOME KIND OF SPECIFIC PROPOSAL IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT, RATHER THAN SAYING EVERYTHING COUNTS, BECAUSE IT COULD BE THAT, UH, IT MAY BE MORE PALATABLE IF WE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A PREVIOUS CREDIT THAT YOU WANT TO USE FOR DIGITAL. 
          AND I'M NOT SAYING I SUPPORT THIS, 'CAUSE AT THIS POINT, I JUST, I'M GONNA SUPPORT WHATEVER THE COMMITTEE SUPPORTS THE TASK FORCE WORKED OUT. 
          BUT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, LESS, IT COUNTS LESS. 
          SO IT'S MAYBE 50 OR 75% OF WHAT IT WAS. 
          AND YOU CAN CHOOSE, YOU KNOW, SO, BUT JUST BE SPECIFIC AS TO WHAT YOU ARE REQUESTING SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN UNDERSTAND WHEN, IF WE'RE GONNA TAKE IT UP. 
          BUT MY GUESS IS, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, NOTHING'S FINAL, BUT WE'VE WORKED ON IT FOR FIVE OR SIX WEEKS OR LONGER, FIVE OR SIX MONTHS, , YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE MESSAGE I WOULD DELIVER TO EVERYBODY THAT'S LISTENING IS IF YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON WHAT HAPPENS, YOU HAVE TO BE AT THE TABLE. 
          THANK YOU, BIANCA. 
          WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS, WHY DON'T WE HAVE A SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THIS AND LISTEN TO HIS PROPOSAL BEFORE WE MEET, AFTER THE SURVEY CLOSES. 
          I MEAN, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, HAPPY TO. 
          YEAH, WE CAN. 
          I, I THINK WE SHOULD DO THAT. 
          LET'S REACH OUT TO PATTY AND LET'S FIND A DATE FOR THE THREE OF US FOR IT TO MEET. 
          YOU'RE WELCOME TO JOIN US. 
          WELL, WE HAVE A FOUR IF YOU WANNA COME. 
          WE HAVE A FOUR THAT IS AS, AS THE CHAIR OF THE TASK FORCE AND THE SIGN. 
          BUT I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, IF YOU CAN CONVINCE OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, YOU'LL HAVE EASY SAILING. 
          AND IF NOT, IT'S PROBABLY, I, I JUST DON'T THINK AT THIS LATE DATE WE'RE GONNA MAKE A BUNCH OF CHANGES UNLESS THERE'S BROAD SUPPORT. 
          AND IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE, WHAT WE'LL DO THEN, AS I'M DON'T, DON'T WANNA PRECLUDE, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY'S PARTICIPATION IN IT. 
          SO ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO COME, BUT I SUGGEST YEAH. 
          WE'LL REACH OUT TO THE SUGGEST WE DO THAT BY, BY ZOOM OR YOU KNOW, WEBEX OR WHATEVER. 
          WE CAN DO A MIX OPTION YEAH. 
          TO ROOM AND DO BOTH. 
          WHAT WE'LL TRY TO DO THEN IS WE'LL TRY TO GET, YOU KNOW, A ROUGH DRAFT OF THE CODIFIED APPROACH, UH, TO THIS. 
          SO WE CAN SIT DOWN AND JUST DO LIKE A QUICK, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF JUST SENDING IT OUT TO YOU, WELL, HEY, HERE'S WHAT IT IS. 
          GO THROUGH IT REAL QUICKLY, UH, WITH THE WORKING GROUP, AND THEN Y'ALL CAN, UH, AT YOUR OWN, UH, PACE REVIEW IT OVER THE NEXT WEEK WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE SURVEY TO FINISH. 
          BUT WE CAN ALSO SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS, UH, THE PROPOSAL OF, OF USING, UH, BANKED, UH, PERMITS. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND SO, BUT I WILL, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS YOU COME UP WITH SOME WRITTEN SPECIFIC EXACT, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR, BECAUSE I HAVE FOUND THAT WHEN WE DO THAT, THE DISCUSS, RATHER THAN GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL, THERE'S SOMETHING ON THE TABLE THAT YOU CAN MODIFY OR WORK OFF OF. 
          YEAH. 
          YES. 
          CAN CAN YOU ALSO PROVIDE US A LIST OF WHO HAS OUTSTANDING YEAH. 
          CREDIT, OUR DIRECTOR'S ALREADY ASKING FOR THAT. 
          WE DON'T HAVE IT, YOU KNOW, HE'S, HE'S ASKING FOR HIMSELF, BUT YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S DIFFERENT IF WE'RE TALKING A HALF A DIGITAL SIGN CREDIT, WE'RE GIVING HIM 
          [02:00:01]
AS OPPOSED, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE FOUR MORE DIGITAL STRUCTURES. 
          CORRECT? YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          CORRECT. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S THE WHOLE THING IS WOULD BE, THERE ARE, I WANT TO JUST CLEAR THERE ARE GONNA BE ZERO. 
          ANYTHING WE DO, WE HAVE NO INCREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF DIGITAL THAT ARE GOING TO BE PUT UP. 
          WHAT IT WILL AFFECT IS, IS IT WILL AFFECT HOW MANY NEW SIGNS ARE TAKEN DOWN, BUT IT WILL ALSO AFFECT HOW MANY STATIC SIGNS THAT CAN GO UP. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, SO THE, THE TRADE OFF MAY BE, AND I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, AT THIS POINT I'M SUPPORTING WHATEVER THE GROUP SUPPORTS IS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TRADE OFF CAN BE IS WE PREVENT 20 NEW SIGNS FROM GOING UP, YOU KNOW, AND A FEW LESS GET TAKEN DOWN. 
          SO, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO WORK, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME SPECIFIC PROPOSAL TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE RATHER THAN HAVING, YOU KNOW, A PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER IT'S RIGHT OR WRONG. 
          SO, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WILL GO MUCH QUICKER. 
          CORRECT. 
          UH, THE LAST QUESTION I HAVE TO THE COMMITTEE, DO Y'ALL FEEL, I KNOW LARRY'S GONE, BUT ON THE OTHER WORKING GROUP, DO WE FEEL AFTER THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS ON THE HILL COUNTRY GATEWAY CORRIDOR, DO WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN JUST COME TO THIS COMMITTEE WITH THAT AND THERE'S NO NEED TO, TO, 'CAUSE I, I GUESS WHEN I LOOK AT IT, IT'S REALLY ONE OF THOSE THINGS, LIKE, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A WHOLE LOT. 
          IT'S REALLY GONNA BE GO BACK TO WHAT IT WAS, ALLOW IT MAYBE A SMALL MODIFICATIONS AND NOT BE GENERAL TO THE OTHER ONES. 
          BUT IT'S NOT A LOT OF WORDING THAT WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH. 
          IT'S REALLY KIND OF PRINCIPLE, IS IT GONNA BE ALLOWED OR NOT. 
          UH, SO MY THOUGHT IS WE CAN JUST BRING THAT RIGHT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE AND, AND ADDRESS IT HERE. 
          I MEAN, WE'LL OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE ALL THE, THE FEEDBACK AND, AND INFORMATION THAT WE GET FROM THOSE COMMUNITY MEETINGS TO THE, TO WORKING GROUP OR TO THE COMMUNITY BEFORE THAT. 
          UH, BUT MY THOUGHT IS WE WOULDN'T DO A WORKING GROUP, BUT I WANT TO CONFIRM THAT BEFORE WE GET TOO LATE. 
          I DON'T, THE AS CHAIR, I DON'T THINK WE NEED A WORKING GROUP. 
          IT'S EITHER THE GROUP IS GOING TO SUPPORT THE CURRENT LANGUAGE AS IT WAS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL OR GO TO THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT GOT PRESENTED TO EITHER THE PLANNING OR ZONING COMMISSION PRIOR TO THEM MAKING THE TWEAK THAT NOBODY KNEW ABOUT AND CORRECT. 
          YEAH, THAT'S, I I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. 
          SO IT, YEAH, I JUST WANTED TO GET A CONSENSUS ON THAT FOR, IS THAT, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO EVERYBODY? I THINK THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE BECAUSE THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THAT SUBCOMMITTEE WAS REALLY TO TALK ABOUT PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT, UM, MOVING FORWARD AS WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. 
          AND WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED THAT ALREADY. 
          SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. 
          AND I'D LIKE TO COMMAND EVERYBODY FOR WORKING THAT OUT. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, NOTICES WENT OUT TO EVERY PROPERTY OWNER THAT'S AFFECTED BY IT. 
          IT WENT OUT IN SEVERAL MEDIUMS TO COMMUNITY GROUPS AND NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND EVERYTHING. 
          SO I THINK THE PROCESS WORKED, AND I BELIEVE IT'S IN THE CORRIDOR, CORRECT? LEON? THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. 
          IT WAS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CORRIDOR. 
          CORRIDOR. 
          OKAY. 
          IN FACT, IT RECEIVED A LETTER. 
          . 
          I SAW THAT ONE. 
          I WAS LIKE, OKAY. 
          JUST MAKING SURE. 
          OKAY. 
          ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE DID GO OUT TO COMMUNITY GROUPS AND HOAS IN EMAIL FORMS? YEAH. 
          AND WE'RE GONNA SEND OUT ANOTHER ONE, UH, THIS WEEK, UH, AS A, AS A REMINDER, BUT, UM, AND AS WELL AS, UH, ALL THE, THE CHAMBERS, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, COUNCILS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          ANYTHING ELSE? IF NOT MEETING IS ADJOURNED. 
          PERFECT. 
          YOU ALL VERY MUCH.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.