* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [3:00 P.M. – Call to Order] [00:00:08] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 16TH, 2023. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? GIBBS HERE. FISH. HERE. SAVINO? HERE. VELAZQUEZ? HERE. MOOKA? HERE. CARPENTER? HERE. GRUB HERE. SERV HERE. HOLLAND? HERE. AND ZER HERE. WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE HAVE A BRIEF ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING THE INTERPRETIVE SERVICES AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETING. IF I COULD PLEASE HAVE THE TRANSLATOR COME UP AND GIVE THAT MESSAGE. GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND VICE-CHAIR SCOTT CARPENTER. FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER IN ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY, AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF A REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR TWO MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO IS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON. SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. OKAY. UM, THANK YOU YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. WE HAVE A FEW ANNOUNCEMENTS. UM, FIRST WE WANT TO WELCOME MR. LUKE HOLLAND, OUR NEW COMMISSIONER REPRESENTING DISTRICT 10. WELCOME LUKE. UM, AND THEN WE ALSO ARE SAYING GOODBYE TO, UM, VICE-CHAIR SCOTT CARPENTER. UM, SCOTT WAS VICE-CHAIR WHEN I STARTED WITH O H P MORE THAN 10 YEARS AGO. AND THEN YOU TOOK A BREAK AND CAME BACK AND HAVE BEEN VICE CHAIR FOR MOST OF YOUR SECOND TENURE HERE. SO PROBABLY AROUND 10 YEARS OF, UM, EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE ON THE COMMISSION. AND WE CERTAINLY WANNA THANK YOU THAT, AND WE'LL RECOGNIZE YOU AT A FUTURE HEARING AND WE'LL HAVE SOME OF OUR PAST COMMISSIONS COME BACK AND BE RECOGNIZED. UM, BUT THAT BRINGS US TO OUR NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS, WHICH IS, UM, ELECTION OF A NEW VICE CHAIR IN SCOTT'S ABSENCE. UM, SO WITH THAT, I'LL KICK IT OVER TO THE CHAIR. YES. DO WE HAVE ANY NOMINATIONS FOR THE VICE CHAIR MI, MR. CHAIR BEF BEFORE WE DO THAT, I, I'D JUST LIKE TO SHARE A QUICK WORD MR. CARPENTER HERE TO, TO MR. CARPENTER FOR HIS SERVICE ON THE COMMISSION. UH, I, I, I'D LIKE TO JUST SAY TO YOU, MR. CARPENTER, THAT, THAT LOOKING TO YOUR, UH, WISDOM AND EXPERTISE IN THE AREA OF ARCHITECTURE AND PRESERVATION HAS BEEN A VERY, UH, IMPORTANT, UH, LET'S SAY BENCHMARK FOR ME ON THIS COMMISSION. UH, THE, THE WORK ON THIS COMMISSION IS LIKE DOING AN ALGEBRA PROBLEM. AND, AND YOU KNOW, HOW WE SOMETIMES LOOK OVER THE SHOULDER OF SOMEONE TO, TO, TO AT LEAST GET SOME GUIDANCE AS TO HOW TO DO THIS PROBLEM. RIGHT. AND YOU, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT, UH, YOU ARE SUCH AN INDIVIDUAL AND, AND WHATEVER IT IS, AND WHEREVER YOU GO IN, IN THE, IN THE WORLD OF ARCHITECTURE, THAT YOU ARE AN ASSET. AND I THINK THAT YOUR, YOUR INTEGRITY, UH, IS, IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT I'VE ALWAYS FELT I CAN COUNT ON. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WHO YOU ARE. THANK YOU FOR THOSE KIND WORDS. COMMISSIONER FISH. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO MO, UH, NOMINATE MONICA SAVINO FROM DISTRICT TWO. IF SHE'S [00:05:01] WILLING. . I'LL SECOND IT FOR THE ROLE OF VICE CHAIR. YOU HAVE A MOTION? A SECOND. IS MONICA WILLING TO SERVE IF ELECTED? UM, SURE. OKAY. UM, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? CONGRATULATIONS. YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I, I APPRECIATE THE HONOR TO, UH, SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY AND THE PUBLIC, UM, IN THEIR APPLICATION AND THEIR SENTIMENTS AS WELL AS SUPPORTING, UH, THE COMMISSIONERS HERE. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, [Approval of Minutes] NEXT, UM, BEFORE WE GET TO ITEMS ON CONSENT, WE DO HAVE MEETING MINUTES FROM MARCH 15TH AND AUGUST 2ND. MOTION TO APPROVE MINUTES FROM MARCH 15TH AND AUGUST 2ND. 2023. SECOND. SECOND. ALL IN, UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? GIBBS AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO ABSTAIN. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. ZUKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MINUTES APPROVED. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. UM, YES MA'AM. MAY I HAVE THE, UM, TAKE A PRIV A POINT OF PRIVILEGE FOR JUST A MOMENT? UM, I DO WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE, UM, THAT COMMISSIONER FROM DISTRICT ONE CURTIS FISH IS STEPPING DOWN ALSO. IS THAT CORRECT? AND, OH, I DIDN'T REALIZE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY, UM, IF YOU WERE TO, DISTRICT ONE IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DISTRICTS IN THE CITY, NUMBER TWO, DISTRICT TWO IS SECOND. UM, IF YOU COULD STAY, WE WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO STAY. UM, BUT I JUST WANT THE, BECAUSE YOU ARE SUCH A, UM, A AN AWARE AND SENSITIVE PERSON TO NOT ONLY THE PRESERVATION NEEDS OF OUR DISTRICT, AND THAT'S WHAT DISTRICT ONE NEEDS, BUT ALSO VERY AWARE OF NEW DEVELOPMENT NEEDS AND THE ABILITY TO BALANCE IT. AND THAT'S WHAT DISTRICT ONE NEEDS, A STRONG ARCHITECT LIKE YOURSELF FOR BOTH PRESERVATION AND UH, CHANGES. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY. I'M SORRY, IS ME , MEGAN REMINDED ME OF ONE MORE THING. UM, YOU HAVE ALL RECEIVED EMAILS REMINDING YOU TO COMPLETE THE MUNICIPAL LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE TRAININGS, UM, THAT IS REQUIRED FOR ALL MEMBERS ON CITY BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. SO JUST YOUR REMINDER, SCOTT'S OFF THE HOOK. I KNOW YOU'VE DONE SOME ALREADY, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMPLETE THOSE NOW. BUT JUST A [CONSENT AGENDA Items are placed on the consent agenda when staff recommends approval or recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant agrees to. Any member of the public desiring to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and be heard prior to voting on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda and have it placed on the individual consideration agenda. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.  ] QUICK REMINDER. OKAY. NOW, IF WE COULD QUICKLY, UM, BRING OUR ATTENTION TO, UM, THE ITEMS ON THE SCREEN. WE HAVE CONSENT ITEMS ONE THROUGH NINE. UM, WE HAVE RECEIVED PUBLIC COMMENTS ON A FEW OF THOSE THAT WE'LL PLAY THROUGH. NOW, STARTING WITH VOICEMAILS FOR ITEM TWO. YES. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 DASH 2 8 8 17 39 WEST SUMMIT AVENUE. MY NAME IS BIANCA MALTO. I CHAIR THE MONTICELLO PARK ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE OFFERING COMMENTS ON BEHALF OF DREA GARZA, PRESIDENT OF THE MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THE NINE MEMBER N P A BOARD OF DIRECTORS PO BOX 1 0 0 3 1 5 7 8 2 0 1. WE THANK THE OWNER FOR INITIATING THE HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION FOR 1739 WEST SUMMIT AND RE, THE REQUEST FOR H. AND WE REQUEST FOR H D R C TO SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS APPLICATION. IT IS IMPORTANT TO PRESERVE AND CELEBRATE OUR COMMUNITY'S HISTORY AT TIMES PARCEL BY PARCEL WHEN OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDARIES OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER OUR SUPPORT AS THE APPLICATION PROCEEDS THROUGH THE CITY'S PROCESS FOR DESIGNATION. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION OF OUR COMMENTS. NEXT IS ITEM 5 5 21 RIVER WALK. THIS IS KATE RUCKMAN, 1 0 7 KING WILLIAMS STREET. REGARDING ITEM NUMBER 5 5 21 RIVERWALK. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OPPOSES THE REMOVAL OF LANDSCAPED AREAS NEXT TO THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER. THE REMOVAL OF LANDSCAPING WEAKENS THE NATURAL AND VISUAL APPEAL OF THE HISTORIC RIVERWALK. WHEN WILL WE RUN OUT OF GREEN SPACE ALONG OUR HISTORIC RIVERWALK? THE RIO GUIDELINES PROVIDE SUGGESTIONS FOR HARDSCAPE ELEMENTS, BUT DO NOT ADDRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF LANDSCAPING. THE CONTINUED EROSION OF GREEN SPACE ALONG THE RIVERWALK SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. THANK YOU. ITEM 7 2 15, QUENTIN? YES. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 DASH 3 0 7 2 1 5. QUENTIN, MY NAME IS BIANCA [00:10:01] MALDONADO. I CHAIR THE MONTICELLO PARK ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE OFFERING THOMAS ON BEHALF OF DREA GARZA, PRESIDENT OF THE MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THE NINE MEMBER N P N A BOARD OF DIRECTORS. WE THANK THE APPLICANT FOR WANTING TO INVEST IN THEIR HOME. UNFORTUNATELY, WE RAISED CONCERN WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS CASE AS THE RECOMMENDATION IS INCONSISTENT FOR CONTRIBUTING HOMES IN THE MONTICELLO PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH RESPECT TO ROOF MATERIAL CHANGES FROM SHINGLED ROOF TO METAL ON THE SAME BLOCK. STAFF RECOMMENDED DENIAL FOR THE SAME ROOF MATERIAL CHANGE. WHEN PRESENTED TO H D R C BASED ON A CONVERSATION WITH THE CASE MANAGER, MR. MORALES, WE WERE INFORMED AN ADMINISTRATIVE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS REQUEST WAS SUBMITTED TO REPLACE ALL EXISTING ROLLED ROOFING MATERIAL ON THE REAR ADDITIONS AND FREESTANDING CARPORT, A SECONDARY STRUCTURE WITH THE SAME MATERIAL. THEREFORE, THE CARPORT STRUCTURE AND SUBSEQUENT REAR ATTACHED ADDITION SHOULD BE EXCLUDED IN AN H D R C APPROVAL FOR MATERIAL CHANGE, WE WOULD GENERALLY BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE MATERIAL CHANGE FOR THE ORIGINAL MAIN STRUCTURE AND ONE SECONDARY STRUCTURE, THE GARAGE. WE ASK FOR CLARIFICATION IN THE AREA OF THE MATERIAL CHANGE TO BE ADDED TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS CASE AS THE LANGUAGE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA IS FOR MORE THAN ONE SECONDARY STRUCTURE WHEN ONLY THE GARAGE SHOULD BE MENTIONED. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION OF OUR COMMENTS. THAT CONCLUDES VOICEMAIL FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. COMMISSIONERS, PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE ARE, UH, LETTERS, ALSO YOUR DESKTOPS. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS FOR DISCUSSION? ITEM FIVE, MR. CHAIR. OKAY. ANY OTHERS? ITEM NUMBERS? CAN I JUST MAKE A COMMENT? ITEM SEVEN. WELL, I WAS GONNA COMMENT ON THAT IS DO WE HAVE TO PULL IT IF, UH, STAFF, WOULD THEY MAKE THE RECONSIDERATION FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ADD THE COMMENTS, ADD THE SPECIFICATION OF THE STIPULATIONS? I I SUPPOSE THAT COULD BE INCLUDED IN AN ACTION FOR APPROVAL AND CONSENT. BUT IF YOU'RE WANTING TO ADD A STIPULATION, THEN THAT WOULD NEED TO BE CONSIDERED INDIVIDUALLY. I MEAN, I GUESS IT WASN'T STIPULATION, IT WAS MORE LIKE THE LANGUAGE IT WAS USED THAT WERE JUST TO SPECIFY THAT IT WAS A CARPORT, WHATEVER. WE CAN PULL IT WHATEVER YOU WANT. YES. COMMISSIONER SAVINO HAS PULLED IT SO WE CAN DISCUSS THAT ONE. ANY OTHERS? I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE BALANCE. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE TO FOR APPROVAL OF THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. HAVE A MOTION IS SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. ZUKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS EIGHT 19 FREEMAN, 1739 WEST SUMMIT, 5 0 9 DELAWARE, 1 0 6 HYMAN 2 29 MADISON, 10 0 9 ROSEWOOD, AND 1 24 ADAMS. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER OR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAIL TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. THANK YOU ALL. AND I DO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE APPLICANTS FOR EIGHT 19 FREEMAN AND 1739 WEST SUMMIT, BRINGING THOSE FORWARD AS, UH, FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE, UH, 5 21 RIVER WALK. THE APPLICANT, UH, MR. MIKE BEATTY IS HERE IN PERSON. THIS PROJECT IS A, UM, UH, I WOULD CALL A MODEST ADDITION TO AN EXISTING RESTAURANT PORCH SYSTEM. UH, WE ARE PROPOSING TO ADD TWO SMALL WOOD DECKS, UH, TO BE LOCATED, UH, BEHIND THE RIVERWALK WITH ADJOINING THE EXISTING PATIOS OF THE RESTAURANTS. UH, THESE DECKS WOULD BE LOW STRUCTURES WITH A SMALL CURB, UH, THAT WOULD NOT REQUIRE RAIL IN FRONT. UH, THE MATERIAL FOR THE DECKS WOULD BE GARA WOOD, WHICH IS A BRAZILIAN ASH MATERIAL THAT IS EXTREMELY, UH, STRONG AND DENSE. UH, IT'S A HUNTING COLOR AND, UH, DOES NOT REQUIRE, OR ACTUALLY CAN'T BE, CAN'T BE STAINED OR WOODS TOO, UH, UH, DENSE FOR, FOR THAT PURPOSE. UM, THE AREAS WHERE [00:15:01] THESE DECKS WOULD BE PLACED ARE EXISTING, UH, EARTH, UH, ZONES DOMINATED BY, UH, LARGE MATURE TREES. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE REALLY ISN'T, IT'S A, IT'S A PLANTER, I GUESS, IN NAME ONLY. BUT IN PRACTICE, THE CITY HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THINGS TO GROW BASED ON THE ROOT FLARE OF THE, OF THE MATURE TREES. UH, SO THE DECKS ARE THERE TO PROVIDE SOME ADDITIONAL SEATING. THEY WOULD NOT REQUIRE, UH, SERVERS GOING INTO THE RIVERWALK. IT WOULD BE SERVED FROM THE OPPOSITE, UH, SIDE. IT HAS A LOW VISUAL IMPACT. IT'S REVERSIBLE IN THE SENSE THAT THESE ARE LIGHT PLATFORMS SITTING ON THE EXISTING, UH, GRADES. UM, AND I GUESS ANOTHER POINT WOULD BE THIS, THIS REAL ESTATE WOULD BE LEASED FROM THE CITY AND THE MONEY THAT'S PAID IN RENT BY OUR, OUR CLIENT WOULD BE, UH, WOULD GOES INTO A FUND TOWARDS IMPROVEMENTS TO THE OVERALL RIVERWALK. UM, IN ADDITION, THERE IS A, A SMALL OUTDOOR BAR TO BE ADDED ON AN EXISTING DECK, UH, IN THAT ZONE. SO THAT'S BASICALLY OUR, UH, OUR SCOPE. BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. THANK YOU MR. BEATTY FOR THE PRESENTATION. UM, MR. CHAIR, I'M NOT, UM, CERTAIN THAT, THAT THERE IS NECESSARILY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT MORE, UH, DIALOGUE FOR THE COMMISSION WITH RESPECT TO THE EXISTING PATTERN OF THAT AREA OF THE RIVERWALK. UH, SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S MOST APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THESE COMMENTS. UH, LET'S SEE IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AND THEN, UH, ONCE WE GET TO A MOTION, WE CAN HAVE THE DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER SAVINO. UM, THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. UM, THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR YOU MR. BEATTY, IS ON REFERENCING PAGE 17 IN THE P D F AND IT'S, YOU'RE DRAWING A FOUR AND I'M LOOKING AT THE FOUNDATION THAT YOU ARE USING FOR THE NEW DECK AREA. AND I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, IS, UM, BASED ON THE DRAWING, IT LOOKS LIKE, UM, THESE ARE SURFACE MOUNTED FOUNDATION PADS, PIERS, AND THAT THIS WOULD BE REVERSIBLE. YES, MA'AM. AND CURRENTLY THE EXCAVATION REQUIRED INTO THAT, UM, THE DIRT AND THE AREA SURROUNDING THE TREE IS MINIMAL. IS THAT, THAT'S HOW Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT IT? THAT'S CORRECT. WE'RE, WE'RE BASICALLY BUILDING WHAT I WOULD CALL A BARGE, A A A FLOATING, A STIFF STRUCTURE THAT FLOATS AND IF THE, THE TREE WINS ALL THE BATTLES ON THE RIVERWALK. SO, UH, IF IT DECIDES TO PICK THE THING UP, WE JUST WANT IT TO ALL MOVE AS AS ONE PIECE. UM, AND IT'S, THERE'S A, THERE'S A TERM CALLED, UH, THERE'S, UM, ROOT, I'VE LOST THE, THE TERM. IT'S, IT'S THE, THE TYPICAL TREE HERE. IT MAY BE SIX FEET IN DIAMETER, BUT THE BASE WHERE IT MEETS THE GROUND CAN BE 15 FEET. AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE. AND THAT'S WHY THE, THEY AREN'T UNABLE TO, UH, GROW PLANTS IN WHAT IS A PLANTER. THERE'S JUST NOT ENOUGH EARTH. MM. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. SO, UM, THAT'S PROBABLY THE BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR BUILDING ON TOP OF THAT AREA SO THAT WE DON'T LOSE THE TREES. THE CYP, THOSE CYP. EXACTLY. OKAY. AND THIS, THE WOOD WILL BE GAPPED. SO THE, UH, AERATION OF THE TREE AND THE, UH, UH, THE WATERING OF THE TREE WILL REMAIN. UH, AND I'LL JUST TELL YOU AS AN ASIDE, WE'VE BEEN DOING WORK ON AND NEAR THE RIVERWALK FOR 30 YEARS AND WE HAVEN'T, UH, MET, UH, A PIECE OF CONSTRUCTION THAT COULD HURT ONE OF THESE TREES. THEY'RE JUST LITERALLY, AND THEY'RE IN THIS AREA, THEY'RE INTERWOVEN WITH THE, WITH THE WALL OF THE RIVER. SO THERE IS, THERE'S A SYMBIOTIC KIND OF RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE ORGANIC AND THE INORGANIC, UH, THINGS THAT ARE THERE. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. CHAIRMAN? I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. YES. SO IN SPEAKING TO THOSE FOOTINGS, THE SPOT FOOTINGS, UH, ARE THOSE A PRECAST ELEMENT? THAT'S, THAT'S THE IDEA. SO YOU'RE NOT CASTING THEM RIGHT IN, UH, OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THESE ARE UNCOVERED PATIOS? YES. UH, WELL THERE'S, THERE'S THE CANOPY OF EIGHT HUGE TREES. SO, UH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE SHADY, BUT THEY'RE NOT LITERALLY COVERED. THIS IS A VERY VERDANT AREA. IF YOU WALK BY THERE, UH, THE TREES ARE, UH, MASSIVE AND, UH, AND IT'S, IT'S A VERY GREEN LOOK. [00:20:02] OKAY, THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GRUBE. I'LL DO A MOTION. OKAY. MOTION TO APPROVE THE STAFF STIPULATIONS. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER GRUBE, DO YOU ADD ANYTHING? NO, I HAVE, I MEAN, UH, THE APPLICANT IS AGREEING TO THE STIPULATIONS, CORRECT? YES, MA'AM. YEAH, I MEAN, UM, YOU'VE ANSWERED ALL THE QUESTIONS AND I FEEL LIKE, UM, I MEAN, IT, I YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, IS REMOVABLE, RIGHT? YES, MA'AM. AND, UM, AND THE PLANERS WILL PROBABLY BE, YOU KNOW, SUBSTITUTING THESE SMALL, VERY WEAK PLANTS. SO THE TENANT WILL BE TAKING CARE OF THE PLANT, THE PLANTERS. YES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OTHER COMMENTS? YES, SIR. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. WELL, MR. CHAIR, THE REASON THAT I PULLED IT WAS TO, TO HOPEFULLY HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE, UM, THE CHANGE IN THE, I GUESS THE KINDA THE HISTORIC EXPERIENCE IN THAT AREA OF THE RIVER. THAT THIS IS THE AREA WHERE THE MAJORITY OF PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC IS GONNA EXIST BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE KEY ENTRY POINTS TO THE RIVER. UM, IT'S ALSO ONE OF THE MORE KINDA DANGEROUS PEDESTRIAN WAYS BECAUSE ANYONE THAT, THAT HAS FREQUENTED THE RIVER KNOWS THAT WALKING BACK AND FORTH DURING THE HIGH PEAK, UH, PERIODS, WHICH, OR THE POPULAR TIMES TO GO TO THE RIVER, LIKE SAY THE DAY AFTER THANKSGIVING, RIGHT. THAT IT, THAT IT BECOMES CRITICAL THAT PEOPLE HAVE A, A SPACE TO, FROM WHICH NOT TO, TO HAVE ANXIETY. SO, SO THE PLANNERS IN THAT, IN THAT AREA ARE, ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, THAT EXPERIENCE IN AN AREA THAT HAS BEEN REALLY OVER DENSIFIED REGULARLY. NOW, IT ALSO, UH, KIND KIND OF, UH, BRINGS TO MIND THE RECENT CASE IN, IN, IN THE, UM, RECENT APPLICATION FOR, UH, LIKE PATIOS, UM, IN ANOTHER AREA OF THE RIVERWALK THAT'S EVEN LESS, UH, UH, DENSE WITH RESPECT TO, UH, PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC. SO IT SEEMS THAT, THAT, THE REAL QUESTION HERE IS THIS, THE DESIGN IS APPROPRIATE AND THE, AND THE, AND THE QUALITY OF MATERIALS AND THE TECHNIQUE THAT'S BEING USED FOR ALL OF THAT IS, IS, IS NOT A QUESTION, BUT, BUT MORE ABOUT THE, THE PATTERN OF, OF PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC AND THE COMFORT ZONE AT PROBABLY THE MOST HEAVILY TRAFFICKED ENTRY POINTS OF THE RIVER. UM, SO IT, IT, IT, IT JUST SEEMS UNWISE TO, TO CHANGE OR TO, TO, IN, TO INCREASE, UH, THAT THE DENSITY OF, UH, OR TO DECREASE THE SPACE AVAILABLE FOR THAT MASS AMOUNT OF, OF PUBLIC THAT GOES THROUGH THAT AREA. UH, AND IT SEEMS THAT IT, IT REALLY PRESENTS A CULTURAL CHANGE TO THE RIVER THAT, THAT I REALLY THINK IS A QUESTION IN, IN THIS, UH, CIRCUMSTANCE, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE CASE FURTHER DOWN THE RIVER THAT DIDN'T HA THAT DOESN'T HAVE THIS LEVEL OF TRAFFIC, DOESN'T ALREADY HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY FOR THE PROPERTY. SO IF, IF IT WAS A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE IT ALREADY EXISTED AS A, AS A REAL ESTATE CONTRACT, IN WHICH CASE IT WOULD BE MERELY A DESIGN SITUATION LIKE MUCH AT THE PALACIO RIO, THIS IS DIFFERENT. THIS CHANGES, UH, UM, UH, THE, THE, THE AVAILABLE OPEN SPACE GREEN SPACE PLANNERS IN THE SAME VEIN AS THE WAY THAT, AS THE WAY THAT THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY IS, UH, DESCRIBING IT. THANK YOU, SIR. COMMISSIONER SAVINO. UM, TO THAT POINT, I DO AGREE WITH THAT. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. UM, DURING THIS LAST ROUND OF U D C AMENDMENTS, WERE THE RIO, WHAT'S THE RIO MANUAL OR THE RIO CATEGORIES ADDRESSED DURING THAT TIME? UM, NOT SUBSTANTIALLY IN TERMS OF CONTENT, BUT THERE WERE SOME REVISIONS, JUST KIND OF CLERICAL MM-HMM. ADMINISTRATIVE SORTS OF THINGS, CLEANING UP, UM, WELL, PERHAPS IN ANTICIPATION OF THE NEXT U D C ROUND, UM, THERE SHOULD BE DISCUSSION WELL BEFORE THAT TO IDENTIFY THE CHARACTER, UM, THE FUTURE OF THE RIVERWALK IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA. I GUESS THAT'S RIO THREE. AND, UM, BEGIN THAT CONVERSATION ON HOW WE WANT THIS TO, YOU KNOW, WITH A GOOD GROUP OF STAKEHOLDERS, HOW WE WANT THIS TO, TO REFLECT OUR CITY AND OUR HISTORY. AND, UM, HOPEFULLY BY THE TIME THE U D C AMENDMENT CYCLE COMES BACK AROUND, WE'LL BE WELL POSITIONED. THANK YOU. UH, EDWARD, CAN YOU PUT UP, UH, SLIDE NINE AND [00:25:01] 10 PLEASE? I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE FACT THAT, UH, LANDSCAPING IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE CHARACTER OF THE RIVERWALK. UM, BUT LOOKING AT THESE TWO PROPOSED LOCATIONS FOR THE, UH, DECK AREAS, THERE IS A LOW STONE WALL THERE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW OFTEN, UH, WITH CROWDS PEOPLE ACTUALLY STEP OVER THE WALL INTO THE PLANTER OR, UH, FROM THE DRAWINGS. IT LOOKS LIKE THE, UH, DECKS ARE FLUSHED WITH THE TOP OF THE STONEWALLS. IS THAT CORRECT, MR. BEATTY? UH, THERE'S SIX INCHES BELOW, SIX INCHES BELOW SO THAT THERE'S A, A, A, A CURB EFFECT. THERE'S NOT A RAIL, BUT JUST A CURB. OKAY. SO THE DECK IS ONE FOOT TWO ABOVE THE RIVER WALK. THE LOW WALL IS ONE FOOT EIGHT, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING PATIO THAT'S BETWEEN THESE TWO. MM-HMM. . SO THE, UH, THE LOOK IS FAIRLY MONOLITHIC ALONG THERE IN TERMS OF HEIGHT AND SCALE. I'D ALSO POINT OUT THAT THE RIVERWALK, UH, IS, IT'S NOT REALLY THAT WIDE IN ANY SPOT, BUT IT IS A LITTLE WIDE HERE. IT'S SEVEN TO EIGHT FEET IN PLACES, UH, WHERE MOST, MOST OF THE TIME IT'S MORE LIKE FIVE OR SIX FEET. AND THAT WE ARE NOT ENCROACHING ON THE ACTUAL PATH OF THE RIVERWALK IN ANY, IN ANY WAY WE'RE BUILDING BEHIND THE EXISTING WALL. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO ACTUALLY, IF PEOPLE NEEDED TO STEP OFF THE RIVERWALK, BECAUSE OF THE CROWDS STEPPING OVER THE STONEWALL ONTO A, A RAISED DECK MAY ACTUALLY BE BENEFICIAL RATHER THAN TRYING TO STEP ALL THE WAY DOWN INTO THE PLANTER, UH, IN THESE PARTICULAR LOCATIONS. AND AS A CONCLUSION, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER SINO THAT, UM, IT'S PROBABLY PUT IT ON OUR CALENDAR WHEN U D C DISCUSSIONS OCCUR. AGAIN, TO LOOK AT THE ENTIRE, UH, RIVERWALK AREA AND SEE IF THERE'S, UM, THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, SUCH AS THIS. OTHER COMMENTS JUST HAVE AN ADMIN, IT SAYS IT WAS CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED ON AUGUST 16TH, I THINK. YES. YES, MA'AM. TODAY IS AUGUST 16TH. THAT MAY BE A TYPO IS IN MAY. OKAY. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S CORRECTED RIGHT. WE'VE ALSO HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH C C D O, WHICH IS THE CITY DEPARTMENT THAT HAS CONTROL OVER THE LEASING OF THE SPACE. AND, UH, THAT'S RESULTED IN SLIGHTLY LOWERING THE DECKS AND MAKING SOME SUBTLE CHANGES, UH, THAT WERE CONCERNS OF THEIRS. BUT THEY'RE, THEY WELCOMED THE IDEA OF, UH, NOT HAVING TO TRY TO GET PLANTS TO GROW IN A, IN A PLACE WHERE THEY REALLY WEREN'T ABLE TO DO IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. IF THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS, UH, ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. NAYYY. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES, NAY, HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM SEVEN. UM, AND COMMISSIONERS FOR THIS ITEM, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE THE APPLICANT, UM, BUT IT'S GONNA BE HELPFUL IF WE PULL THIS IMAGE UP AND JUST EXPLAIN, UM, SO THERE'S NOT CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT THE REQUEST IS. AND SO, AS YOU CAN SEE THIS, THIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN ADDED ONTO THROUGH THE YEARS, AND IT'S ALMOST EVEN TOUCHING AN ACCESSORY TO THE REAR. UM, THE REQUEST IS TO REPLACE WHAT YOU SEE IN SHINGLES WITH METAL, AND THEN WHAT YOU SEE, KIND OF THE FLAT PORTIONS OF LIKE THE ROLL ROOF THAT'LL BE REPLACED WITH SIMILAR MATERIAL. SO NOT THE METAL. SO IT'LL BE A WHITE BITUMEN MATERIAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IS RATED FOR THAT TYPE OF SLOPE. AND SO THAT IS THE REQUEST. COMMISSIONER SAVINO, UH, THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. I PULLED THIS CASE BECAUSE OF THE, UH, LETTER FROM THE COMMUNITY AND ALSO COMMISSIONER GROUP HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. UM, STAFF, CAN YOU EXPLAIN OR, UM, GIVE US SOME MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE OTHER CASE THAT HAD BEEN DENIED THE METAL ROOF AND THEN THIS CASE, AND WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? UM, APPARENTLY THIS OTHER CASE WAS PRETTY RECENTLY. UM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE DIFFERENCE MIGHT HAVE BEEN? I DON'T DUNNO IF WE HAD TIME TO PULL IT UP BECAUSE I'M WITHOUT AN ADDRESS. IT'S HARD TO DO IT QUICKLY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? I MEAN, SO THE RECOMMENDATIONS CAN VARY DEPENDING ON THE, UM, ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE HOUSE. AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHICH OTHER PROPERTY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT WE HAVE MADE A NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION FROM METAL ROOFS FOR, UM, TUDORS OR MASONRY HOUSES, UH, [00:30:01] THAT WERE, IT'S JUST NOT AN APPROPRIATE STYLE OF ROOF MATERIAL. UM, MY OWN CONCERN ABOUT THIS IS WHAT THIS, UM, DOES TO THE APPEARANCE OF THE CARPORT SITTING OUT FRONT AND THE BRIGHT WHITE ON THAT. UM, SO, UM, ANYWAY, THAT'S WHAT MY CONCERN IS. I THINK COMMISSIONER GRU HAS SOME OF HER THOUGHTS. I WAS JUST ASKING, UM, IF YOU READ THE COMMENTS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY JUST WANT CLARIFICATION OF THE AREA OF MATERIAL CHANGE TO BE ADDED TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS CASE AS THE LANGUAGE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA IS FOR MORE THAN ONE SECONDARY STRUCTURE, WE ONLY THE GARAGE SHOULD BE MENTIONED. THAT'S ALL. SO I JUST WANTED STAFF TO ADD THAT TO THE COMMENTS. AND YES, IT SAYS STRUCTURES RECOMMENDATION, BUT IT SHOULD SAY STRUCTURE. IT'S A . YEAH, AND THAT'S BASICALLY, UM, I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M IN FAVOR OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR STAFF. I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT TO THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION. WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION COMMISSIONER GRIB A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS? SECOND. SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINA. AYE. VELAZQUEZ ABSTAIN. MAZUA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION  ] NUMBER 10. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 10, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 DASH 5 5 7. ADDRESS, 6 1 6 DASH 6 1 8 WILMINGTON. AND UH, THIS IS A REQUEST, UH, FOR A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION REGARDING A DESIGNATION OF THE PROPERTY AT 6 1 6 DASH 6 1 8 WILMINGTON. UH, THIS, UH, REQUEST IS FROM THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. MR. CHAIR? YES. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE, UH, WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE ON THIS. UH, WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A D R C, SO THE PROCESS WE AGREED ALSO WITH THE OWNER WAS WE FOUND HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE IN THE FIRST ROUND. THEN THAT WAS APPROVED WITH ZONING AND CITY COUNCIL. SO NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT DESIGNATED AS A LANDMARK. YEAH, LET ME, LET ME JUST CLARIFY THE STEPS. AND SO THIS DID COME TO YOU PREVIOUSLY FOR A QUESTION REGARDING THE ELIGIBILITY. SO THE COMMISSION DID CONCUR THAT THE PROPERTY WAS ELIGIBLE FOR DESIGNATION. FROM THERE, IT REQUIRES CITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION IN ORDER TO PROCEED WITH THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION PROCESS BECAUSE IN THIS CASE, THE OWNER DOES NOT SUPPORT THE, THE DESIGNATION. UM, AND SO THE OWNER IS HERE TO SPEAK. UM, WE ALSO HAVE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. AND SO WE'LL BE HEARING TESTIMONY FROM BOTH SIDES. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE CHARLES WAS DONE WITH THE PRESENTATION. I COULDN'T TELL IF YOU WERE CONTINUING OR NOT. UH, NO. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING US UP TO SPEED. OKAY. SO WITH THAT, WHY DON'T WE GO AHEAD, UM, AND HEAR FROM OUR CITIZENS TO BE HEARD AND THEN THE OWNER AS WELL. UM, SO, UM, RICKY KUSHNER, I SIGNED IN TO SPEAK AND THEN WE HAVE ONE VOICEMAIL AS WELL. I, MY NAME IS FREDERICA KUSHNER. I LIVE AT 4 0 5 EAST MYRTLE STREET, UH, SAN ANTONIO, 7 8 2 1 2. AND I'M SPEAKING FOR THE TOBIN HILL COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION. THE HOUSE AT 6 16 6 18 WILMINGTON AVENUE IS A SHOTGUN DUPLEX, A STYLE OF HOUSING THAT IS RARE IN SAN ANTONIO. IT WAS INTENDED AS MODEST HOUSING. THE OTHER HOUSES ON THE STREET WERE OBVIOUSLY BUILT FOR MIDDLE INCOME FAMILIES, CLERKS AND STORE MANAGERS, AND ARE STILL OCCUPIED. THIS DUPLEX BUILT BY DEWEY E WRIGHT IN 1925 WAS OWNED AND OR OCCUPIED BY THE WRIGHT HAMAN FAMILY UNTIL AT LEAST 1948. DURING THOSE YEARS, ONE OF THE TWO UNITS WAS ROOTED TO PEOPLE LIKE THE YOUNG BANKER, TOM C FROST, JR. WHO LIVED THERE TAKING ON THE RESPONSE BEFORE TAKING ON THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF HIS FAMILY'S PROFESSION. LATER IN THE 1960S, THE BUILDING WAS OWNED BY CHARLES L FRANZ, WHO OWNED THE FRANZ ICE STATION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. ONE OF HIS WORKERS LIVED THERE FOR A WHILE, AS DID AN EMPLOYEE OF SAMUEL'S GLASS COMPANY. THE DUPLEX HAS A LONG HISTORY OF PROVIDING LOWER MID INCOME HOUSING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND WE BELIEVE IT CAN STILL DO THAT. 6 16 6 18 WILMINGTON OCCUPIES THE SAME FOOTPRINT AS WHEN IT WAS BUILT [00:35:01] WITH A SIMPLE DUPLEX PLAN AND TWO CHIMNEYS. IT RETAINS MUCH OF ITS ORIGINAL FABRIC VISUALLY, IT FITS WITH THE OTHER HOUSES ON THE STREET. IF THE CITY IS TO RETAIN ITS CHARACTER AND ITS VISUAL APPEAL, IT NEEDS ARCHITECTURE LIKE THIS IN STREET, STREET SCAPES LIKE WILMINGTON. WE ARE ASKING YOU TO RECOMMEND HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION FOR 6 16 6 18 WILMINGTON AVENUE. AS ALWAYS, WE THANK O H P STAFF FOR THEIR WORK ON THIS CASE. AND WE THANK THE H D R C FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU. AND THE VOICEMAIL, CHARLES, THIS IS KATE RUCKMAN, 1 0 7 KING WILLIAMS STREET REGARDING ITEM NUMBER TEN SIX SIXTEEN AND SIX 18 WILMINGTON STREET. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO IS PLEASED TO SUPPORT THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF THIS HISTORIC HOUSE IN THE TOBIN HILL NEIGHBORHOOD. IT IS ESPECIALLY SIGNIFICANT AS ONE OF ONLY 12 REMAINING EXAMPLES THAT EMBODY THE REAR JUNCTION DOUBLE SHOTGUN FORM. THANK YOU. OKAY. AND THEN I HAVE, UM, REPRESENTATION FROM THE OWNER, RUSS ECKLES. MR. ECKLES, YOU SHOULD BE UNMUTED IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. I THINK I, I HAVE, UH, MR. HANK COLEMAN ON MY PHONE. CAN Y'ALL, HANK CAN YOU HEAR THEM? I CAN HEAR THEM, YEP. OKAY. CAN Y'ALL HEAR MR. COLEMAN? YEAH. SO WE CAN HEAR BOTH OF YOU AS WELL. OKAY, I'LL, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO HANK THEN. UM, I, I WANT TO CONTRADICT WHAT THE LADY SAID EARLIER, BECAUSE IF YOU GUYS WOULD LOOK AT THE TAX ROLLS FOR THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY, JUST ON THE TAX ROLLS ALONE, EACH SIDE IS GONNA HAVE TO CHARGE SOMEWHERE AROUND 12 TO $1,500 JUST TO PAY THE TAX BILL THE OVERHEADS. 'CAUSE IT'S A DUPLEX, WHICH MEANS IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED. THE REGIONAL STRUCTURE IS FALLING APART. UM, THIS IS COME OUTTA LEFT FIELD. NOBODY HAS EVER MENTIONED HISTORICAL DESIGNATION UNTIL WE WENT FOR A DEMO PERMIT. WE'VE OWNED THE PROPERTY AND TRIED TO FIX AS THE COMMISSION OR SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE HEARD, WE DID EVERYTHING. THE ENTIRE FOUNDATION OF THE HOUSE IS COLLAPSED. THEY'RE TO LIFT THAT HOUSE UP AND FIX IT. IT'S IN EXCESS OF $300,000. THERE IS NO WAY ANYBODY IS GOING TO RENT THAT AS AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE STORY. NOTHING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING. AND THE IDEA THAT THIS PORTABLE DUPLEX, WHICH HAS GONE TO RUIN LONG BEFORE WE OWN IT, IS SOMEHOW GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING. WE HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOLKS. WE WERE ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO START DOING THINGS IN EAST SIDE PROMISE. AND WE KNOW WHAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING LOOKS LIKE. THIS ISN'T IT, THIS IS NOT THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR IT. THE PRICE, THE LAND PRICE ALONE. JUST IF YOU WILL GO TO THE TAX ROLLS AND SEE WHAT THE LAND PRICE APPRAISAL IS, THERE'S VIRTUALLY NO APPRAISAL ON THAT PROPERTY FOR THE STRUCTURE BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE'S NOT WORTH ANY. AND SO WE HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT WE HAD TRIED, AS WE'VE DONE WITH, AND RUSS WILL TELL YOU, RUSS HAS RENOVATED OVER 70 HOUSES IN EAST SIDE PROMISE. WE HAVE HOUSES IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO GO LOOK ON OMAHA AND IDAHO. THE ONLY REASON WE LOST HOUSES ON IDAHO WAS BECAUSE OF, UH, I MEAN ON OMAHA WAS BECAUSE WE HAD OUR, WE FIXED UP EVERY HOUSE. WE'VE MADE UNCONTROLLED COST OVERRUNS TO FIX PROPERTIES. THIS PROPERTY, IF SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO BUY IT FOR WHAT THE TAX ROLL SAY IT'S WORTH, I WILL BE HAPPY TO SELL IT TODAY. IF I CAN ADD TO THAT, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY HOUSE THAT WE'VE EVER DEMOLISHED. WE, WE HAVE NEVER DEMOLISHED A HOUSE. SO WE ARE, WE ARE SITTING HERE AS GOOD STEWARDS OF ORIGINAL HOUSING IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS DRIVE WITH ME. ANYBODY IS WELCOME. I WILL PUT THEM IN MY STORE TRUCK AND DRIVE THEM AROUND AND SHOW THEM HOUSE AFTER HOUSE AFTER HOUSE THAT WE'VE RENOVATED, SOME OF WHICH ARE HISTORICAL HOUSES. THIS ONE IS IMPOSSIBLE. WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO SELL IT BACK TO THE CITY FOR ALL OF THESE PEOPLE WHO LIVED THERE A LONG TIME AGO. BUT A ONE BEDROOM, AND BY THE WAY, IT'S, THESE ARE NOT ONE BEDROOM DUPLEXES. THEY HAVE BEEN [00:40:01] MISCHARACTERIZED THAT WAY BECAUSE PEOPLE WENT IN AND ADDED ON BEDROOMS IN THE BACK. THEY'RE NOT ONE BEDROOM DUPLEXES. SO JUST ON THE TAX ROLL, JUST ON WHAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PAID IN TAXES FOR ANYONE TO COME IN AND RENOVATE THAT PROPERTY, WE WOULD NEED A SUBSIDY OF PROBABLY AROUND $25,000 A YEAR TO DO THAT AS LOW INCOME HOUSING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO, OR YOU CAN ABATE ALL THE TAXES. AND WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. OTHERWISE, THAT PROPERTY IS UNFIXABLE. AND IF SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO, AS I SAID, IF SOMEBODY WOULD LIKE TO PURCHASE THAT UNFIXABLE PROPERTY FROM US, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SELL IT TO THEM AND WHAT I PAID FOR IT, WHICH IS VASTLY UNDER WHAT I'M BEING TAXED FOR. SO I, YOU KNOW, FOLKS, IF, IF THIS GOES THROUGH IN A NON, IF I BOUGHT THIS IN A HISTORICAL DISTRICT, I WOULD UNDERSTAND. I WOULD SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT WE GOT OURSELVES INTO. IT'S NOT IN A HISTORICAL DISTRICT, IT'S OUTSIDE OF ANY HISTORICAL DISTRICT. AND YET WE'RE SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT A HISTORICAL PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT ISN'T IN A DESIGNATED AREA FOR HIS, FOR HISTORICAL. IT'S OUTSIDE OF IT. SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY OPTIONS. WE'VE EXPLAINED IT. WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN GOOD STEWARDS TO BARN AND LOTS AND LOTS OF ORIGINAL PROPERTIES IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. THIS ONE'S IMPOSSIBLE. AND SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DESIGNATE IT, WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO GO FOR A DEMOLITION PERMIT BECAUSE WE CAN'T FIX IT. AND NOW, LIKE I SAID, IF THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO BUY IT BECAUSE IT HAS SOME HIGH HISTORICAL DISTRICT VALUE, I'D BE HAPPY TO SELL IT TOMORROW. IF NOT, I'M GONNA DEMOLISH THE HOUSE BECAUSE IT IS UNFIXABLE. OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? COMMISSIONER CERVANTES? YES. QUESTION FOR STAFF. UH, IF THIS IS DESIGNATED, WHAT IMPACT DOES IT HAVE ON THE OWNER'S ABILITY TO MOVE THE HOUSE? UM, DESIGNATED HOUSES. IT WOULD COME TO THE H C R C FOR APPROVAL FOR RELOCATION, AND THAT HAS ROUTINELY BEEN APPROVED, UM, IN RECENT MEMORY OR, OR SELL IT AND THEN HAVE THE NEW OWNER MOVE THE HOUSE AND NOT, NOT THE LOAN. THE HOUSE IS NOT MOVABLE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO TELL YOU GUYS. THE HOUSE, YOU CANNOT MOVE THIS HOUSE, IT WOULD CRUMBLE. YEAH, I HEARD THAT SCENARIOS. WE HAVE GONE THROUGH EVERY SCENARIO WE THOUGHT POSSIBLE, INCLUDING THE LAST TIME WE WERE AT THE HOUSE WITH FOLKS FROM THE COMMISSION VOLUNTEERING TO HAVE IT SALVAGED AS OPPOSED TO JUST DEMOING THE HOUSE. UM, AND WE SALVAGE, AS RUSS WILL TELL YOU, WE SALVAGE OURSELVES. WE, IF WE, IF WE HAVE TO GO IN AND REPLACE, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURAL UNDERPINNINGS AND WE HAVE TO TAKE UP ORIGINAL FLOORS, WE, WE SALVAGE, WE DO THAT. OKAY. MY QUESTION WAS TO STAFF. THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING THE QUESTION. ANY, ANY PROPERTY OWNER CAN REQUEST RELOCATION OF A DESIGNATED PROPERTY. UM, THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT IT BE APPROVED BY THE H C R C AND THAT THE NEW PROPERTY ALSO BE DESIGNATED AS A LANDMARK AFTER IT'S MOVED. GOT IT. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR? YES. COMMISSIONER GROOVE. JUST SO WE, YOU KNOW, MIGHT NOT REMIND OUR PURVIEW. SO THIS IS HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION AFTER HISTORIC, UH, SIGNIFICANCE, WHICH STILL GIVES THE ABILITY AFTER THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION STILL GIVES THE ABILITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, CONSISTS WITH ECONOMIC HARDSHIP OR, AND THEN WE CAN LOOK AT NUMBERS AND THEN WE CAN LOOK AT WHETHER DEMOLITION OR PARTIAL DEMOLITION OR MOVE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT TODAY IS HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION. YES. AND THERE'S ALSO THE, IF IT IS LANDMARKED, UH, DOESN'T PRECLUDE, UH, ADDITIONS TO THE BUILDING. OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER FISH. I HAVE A, A QUESTION FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, UH, IN RE RELATIONSHIP TO, UH, THE PROPERTY BEING ON THE MARKET. HAS THIS PRO, HAS THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL BEEN LISTED ON THE REAL ESTATE MARKET ANYTIME IN, IN THE, IN THE PROCESS OF THE INITIATION OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION, WHICH I GUESS WOULD BE TWO YEARS? MR. RUCKLES, CAN YOU ANSWER THAT? HANK, ARE YOU THERE? I'M JUST THINKING, I THINK THE LAST TIME THE PROPERTY WAS UP FOR SALE, I'D BE HAPPY. DIDN'T SHARE THE PRICE BECAUSE ANYBODY COULD GO WHERE THE TAX RECORD YOU PAID $168,000 STOCK RENOVATED. [00:45:03] BUT I THINK WHAT THEY'RE ASKING YOU IS HAVE YOU HAD IT UP FOR SALE SINCE YOU BOUGHT IT? IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. WE'RE AROUND $180,000 BECAUSE EVERYBODY THINKS IT'S A LOT. NOW, THE LOT VALUE ACCORDING TO THE, AND I DON'T, WHICH I'M SITTING IN LA HUI HAWAII, I HAD ASKED WHOEVER WAS CALLING THIS, GIVE ME TIME TO GET BACK. I TOOK MY GODCHILDREN FOR VACATION THAT I HAVEN'T HAD FOR FIVE YEARS SINCE MY WIFE DIED. SO I AM DOING THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, ON MY CELL PHONE, GETTING MY RECORDS IN FRONT OF IT. BUT OFFER I HAD WAS FOR AROUND $180,000, WHICH IS NOT WHAT IT, OKAY, THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. I THINK, I THINK I GOT THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION. THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS IT HAS NOT BEEN LISTED FOR SALE THANK WITH THE REALTOR. THANK YOU FOR THAT. MR. CHAIR. IN THE INTEREST OF GETTING INTO, UM, COMMISSIONER DIALOGUE, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION BEFORE THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION, SIR, WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM COMMISSIONER GIBBS. THANK YOU, UM, FOR THE APPLICANT. UM, QUESTION, UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT, UM, THE PROPERTY IS NOT WORTH WHAT THE CITY IS SAYING. UH, IT IS WORTH, AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, B C A D, YOU KNOW, VALUES PROPERTIES FOR TAXING PURPOSES. AND I'M LOOKING AT B C A D RIGHT NOW, AND I'M SEEING THAT IN 2021 WAS THE ONLY YEAR IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THAT THE PROPERTY VALUE WAS LESS THAN THE PREVIOUS YEAR. SO MY QUESTION IS, IF YOU'RE DISPUTING THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY, HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU DIS, HAVE YOU FILED PROTESTS AND HAVE YOU, YOU KNOW, DONE THAT WITH THE, UM, WITH THE COUNTY IN ORDER TO, UM, CHANGE THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY? I HAVE. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR YOU. YOU SAID YOU HAVE I I HAVE, YES. OKAY. AND SO UNSUCCESSFUL OR, BECAUSE I MEAN, I'M, I'M SEEING A STEADY INCREASE HERE. SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE UNSUCCESSFUL WITH THAT? I'VE BEEN VERY UNSUCCESSFUL BECAUSE EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, OF COURSE, IS GOING UP QUITE CONSIDERABLY IN TERMS OF THEIR VALUE. SO YES, I HAVE ATTEMPTED, UH, LET'S SAY, SO THAT'S WHY, HOWEVER, YOU WILL SEE THAT THE PROPERTY THAT IS THE ACTUAL ITSELF, THAT IS THE BUILDING, HASN'T GONE UP THAT MUCH. IS THAT OUR FIRST PROTEST, WE WERE LIKE, THIS IS A TEAR DOWN. AND SO THEY TOOK EVERYTHING AND PUT IT ON THE LAND. SO THAT'S WHAT THE TAXING, THAT'S WHAT THE TAXING AUTHORITY DID. I AM SEEING THAT. THANK YOU, SIR. YEP. OKAY. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. UH, WELL, MR. CHAIR, IN THE INTEREST OF, UH, COMMENCING DIALOGUE OF THE COMMISSION, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION DENYING, UH, LANDMARK STATUS. SECOND, YOU HAVE A MOTION? A SECOND. SO, DISCUSSION, COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, MR. CHAIR, THERE, THERE'S A, THERE'S A PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE OCCURRING WITHIN THE REAL ESTATE OR THE HOUSING ENVIRONMENT THAT IMPLICATES ALL LEVELS OF DEVELOPMENT. AND IN THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN, WITH AN INCREASE IN, IN VALUATIONS, WHICH IS THE SCIENCE OF, UH, THE APPRAISAL DISTRICT AND HIGH INTEREST RATES AND, AND LOSS OF AFFORDABILITY IN COMMUNITIES, UH, MUCH OF THE, OF THE BURDEN IS BEING PUSHED ON THE PROPERTY OWNERS WITH, WITH, WITH RESPECT TO JUST THE COMMON VALUATION. AND, AND NOW TO ADD, UH, OVERLAYS THAT REALLY, UM, UH, ENCOURAGE, UM, THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT REALLY CREATES THE, THE MOST OUT OF REACH AFFORDABILITY THAT'S, THAT'S AVAILABLE. SO WITH RESPECT TO THE COMMENTS OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, BUT, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, WITH RESPECT TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF, OF, UH, THE PRESENTATION THAT THE GENTLEMAN IS MAKING WITH RESPECT TO THE, UH, AFFORDABILITY ISSUE AND US LOOKING AT THESE PRETTY HOUSES AND, AND ROMANTICIZING THAT THERE'S GONNA BE A, A, A LOW INCOME, UH, COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, LIVING IN, IN THESE, IN THESE HOUSES. IT, IT REALLY POINTS TO THE GREATER ISSUE THAT, THAT, UM, IN REALITY WHAT WE'RE DOING IS WE'RE INCREASING THE COST OF, OF THESE HOUSES. AND, AND AFFORDABILITY DOESN'T EXIST IN THIS COMMUNITY BEFORE IT EVER REACHES THE H D R C. AFFORDABILITY IS ALWAYS GONNA MEAN THAT THERE IS A SUBSIDY ASSOCIATED WITH THE RENTAL OR THE DEVELOPMENT. SO IF IT'S A TAX CREDIT DEVELOPMENT, OR IF IT'S A HOUSE THAT IS DEVELOPED, THINKING THAT THEIR BREAKEVEN POINT WILL BE THROUGH A SECTION EIGHT WHERE THE TENANT AFFORDABILITY IS OFFSET BY GOVERNMENT SUBSIDY. THE REALITY IS IN [00:50:01] THE CITY WHERE PROPERTY VALUES ARE AND THEN WHERE CONSTRUCTION COSTS ARE EASILY PUT, THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THIS HOUSE IS SOMEWHERE IN THE $400,000 RANGE, IN WHICH CASE THE RENT REASONABLY IS BASED ON THAT RANGE. AND, UH, THE AFFORDABILITY, UH, PROBLEM IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT, UM, THAT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH THAT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS SAYING THAT, UH, WE'RE GONNA CREATE MORE AFFORDABILITY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT KIND OF TAXES THE LEVEL OF THE THRESHOLD OF WHAT WE ARE CONSIDERING. UM, UH, A HISTORIC STRUCTURE THAT MAY HAVE LOST ITS HISTORIC INTEGRITY, UH, VERSUS THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, THE CHANCES THAT THIS BUILDING SITS THERE AND GOES FURTHER AND FURTHER AND FURTHER, UH, UNDEVELOPED AND UNRESTORED AND, AND, AND, AND REALLY BECOMES, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST A WORSE CIRCUMSTANCE. UH, THE PICTURES INDICATE THAT, THAT, THAT THE BUILDING IS IN, IN, IN VERY BAD DISREPAIR. UH, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT A BUILDING LIKE THIS CAN'T BE MOVED. THE, THE, THE, UH, APPLICANT IS, IS CLEARLY, UH, OPEN TO THE IDEA OF DISMANTLING THIS AND PERHAPS DISMANTLING A WAY WHERE IT CAN BE RECONSTRUCTED SOMEWHERE ELSE. BUT, UH, THE IDEA THAT, THAT THIS HOUSE IS GOING TO SERVE SOME LOW INCOME, UH, OBJECTIVE JUST ON THE, ON THE LAND CAUSE IS, IS, IS, IS BEING DISINGENUOUS. NOW, LAST COMMENT. THE, YOU KNOW, HOUSES IN, IN, IN THESE COMMUNITIES ALWAYS HAVE A DEVELOPER AND, AND IN A LOT OF CASES A BANKER, DEVELOPER. SO I, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING HISTORIC ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPER WHEN WE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, UH, A FROST, UH, BEGINNING HERE NOW, NOW THAT IS SIGNIFICANT, BUT I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT ALSO WOULD RELY ON THERE BEING STRONG SUPPORT FROM A MEMBER OF THE FAMILY TO, TO PUT FORTH A, A, A POSITION THAT SAYS THAT YES, THIS IS FORMATIVE TO THE FROST LEGACY. UH, UH, UH, UM, ABSENT THAT, UM, IT SEEMS THAT THE CONDITION OF THIS BUILDING MAKES IT A CANDIDATE FOR HABS DRAWINGS, FOR DISMANTLING AND STORING, UH, ARE, UH, UH, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, IT, IT JUST SEEMS UNFAIR THAT, THAT AN APPLICANT IS TAXED IN A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE CHAIR, AGAIN, THIS IS BEING ONE OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE IT SEEMS THERE'S A WEAPONIZING OF, OF A THANK YOU COMMISSIONER ORDINANCE. THANK YOU, SIR. YES. COMMISSIONER GRU. YEAH, WELL, I'LL, THERE'S NOBODY, UM, I THINK THAT WE JUST NEED TO NOT DISAGREEING WITH TAXING. I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH THAT. IT MIGHT NOT BE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT, UH, WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US, HISTORIC DESIGNATION, I DID GO TO THE SITE VISIT. WE HAVE VOTED ON FINDING HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. WE DID FIND HISTORIC ELEMENTS ON THIS PROPERTY, SO I WILL NOT SUPPORT THE MOTION. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES? NO, NO. I WAS GONNA YIELD SOME TIME TO FELLOW COMMISSIONER, BUT NO COMMENTS. COMMISSIONER, FISH. UM, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. I CONCUR WITH THE ORIGINAL ASSESSMENTS IN TERMS OF THE, THE QUALIFICATION AND MEETING THE GUIDELINES ON THE U D C. AND I'M GOING TO BE SUPPORTING COUNSEL'S RESOLUTION THAT PASSED ON JUNE 8TH. UH, IN SUPPORT OF THIS DESIGNATION, UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THE POSITION PRESENTED BY THE OWNER, AND I DO THINK UNDER A DESIGNATION, THERE'S A PROCESS BY WHICH THESE PROPERTIES CAN BE, UH, REDEVELOPED, UH, WITHOUT WHOLESALE DEMOLITION. AND I WOULD NOTE THAT SIGNIFICANT TAX INCENTIVES WOULD BECOME AVAILABLE FOLLOWING THE OVERLAY APPLICATION AND THE, AND THE DESIGNATION. SO, UH, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SAVINO. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. UM, WITH THESE CASES, UM, IN A GROWING CITY, THE REDEVELOPMENT POSSIBILITIES ARE CRITICAL. AND SO WHAT, WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT THIS EXISTING BUILDING IS IT IS MULTI-FAMILY OR NOT MULTI-FAMILY. TWO, UM, TWO FAMILY DWELLING, A DUPLEX. AND IT SHOWS HOW MULTIPLE UNITS CAN FIT IN A MODEST SINGLE FAMILY BLOCK AND A NEIGHBORHOOD FROM AN URBAN DEVELOPMENT STANDPOINT. UM, BUT ALSO WHAT'S IMPORTANT ABOUT THE BUILDING IS IT GIVES US A CLUE HOW TO FURTHER DEVELOP A LOT. I WISH THERE WAS A SURVEY IN THE, UM, IN THE PACKAGE THAT WOULD GIVE US SOME DIMENSIONS. UM, BECAUSE MORE UNITS CAN BE BUILT IN THE BACK, THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM TO CONTINUE TO REDEVELOP. SO YOU HAVE A HISTORIC FRONT THAT FITS THE REST OF THE BLOCK. AND THEN IN THE BACK IS WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR NEW CONSTRUCTION AND YOU CAN GO BEYOND, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF HAVING ONE ONES AS THESE HISTORIC DUPLEXES ARE MAYBE TWO ONES IN THE BACK, YOU CAN GO WITH THE TWO [00:55:01] TWOS AND THREE TWOS IF YOU WANT. UH, IT'S ALREADY ZONED FOR IT. SO MY, MY BRAIN IS THINKING AS A DEVELOPER, WHERE ARE THE POSSIBILITIES WHEN THIS IS HISTORIC? AND I THINK IT WOULD MAKE FOR A MUCH MORE, UM, UH, CHARACTER FULL BLOCK TO, TO MAINTAIN THE HISTORIC, UM, UH, STRUCTURE. SO I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. ARE THERE COMMENTS? I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION EITHER. UM, BELIEVE THE, THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMISSION PREVIOUSLY TO COUNCIL AND, AND THEN COUNCIL'S, UM, APPROVAL TO MOVE THIS FORWARD. I THINK, UH, HAS THIS RIGHT. CAN I OFFER A SUBSTITUTE MOTION? YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR THIS ONE. YES. I DON'T WANNA CONFUSE EVERYONE, BUT AL AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF CASE THIS SAYS THIS IS A VOTE ON THE DESIGNATION OR A CHANGE IN ZONING TO BECOME HISTORIC LANDMARK. IT REQUIRES NINE VOTES. AND SO IT IS CLEANER IF THE MOTION IS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, AND SO WE CAN SEE IF WE GET NINE OR NOT. UM, AND SO YES, A ALTERNATIVE MOTION COULD BE FOR THE AFFIRMATIVE AND THEN WE COULD GO AHEAD AND TAKE, VOTE ON THAT AND THEN SEE WHAT HAPPENS. SO ARE YOU PROPOSING A, I THINK WHAT HE JUST SAID IS WE VOTE ON THIS ONE AND THEN I'LL DO AN ALTERNATE MO MOTION. NO, NO, YOU WOULD MAKE THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION NOW. NOW. OKAY. SO I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE WITH STAFF. THERE'S NO STIPULATIONS. MOVE TO APPROVE. SECOND MOTION. AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS? AYE FISH TO, TO STAFF? JUST A QUICK QUESTION. THE VOTE ON THE MOTION IS FOR THE SUBSTITUTE OR THE PRIMARY? CORRECT? WE'RE VOTING ON THE SUBSTITUTE. OKAY, THANK YOU. IF IT, UM, PASSES, IT PASSES. IF IT FAILS, WE REALLY DON'T NEED A VOTE ON THE ORIGINAL MOTION BECAUSE THE ITEM WILL FAIL. UNDERSTOOD. THANK YOU. AYE SINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. NAYYY. MAZUA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES. NO. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. SO THAT'S EIGHT VOTES. THE MOTION DOES FAIL. MOTION FAILS THE CASE. THERE'S NO ALTERNATE MOTION NEEDED. OKAY, WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND, AND MR. CHAIR, I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THE REASON WHY I MADE THE MOTION TO DENY PRIMARILY IS UNDERSTANDING THE PROCESS. IT DOES PRESENT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO BE A SECOND MOTION. SO IT'S SOMETHING TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IN, IN TERMS OF THE WIDEST, UH, OPPORTUNITY FOR COUNT FOR THE COMMISSION TO UTILIZE ITS PROCESSES. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 11, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 23 2 9 5 8 49 EAST COMMERCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING SET OF ENTRANCE DOORS ON THE, ON THE BLUM ALLEY, WHICH IS THE NORTH FACADE OF RIVER CENTER MALL WITH REPLACEMENT DOORS. THE EXISTING DOORS WERE MANUFACTURED BY ELLISON BRONZE AND LIKELY DATE TO 1939. THE DOORS ARE PROPOSED TO BE REPLACED WITH NEW ALUMINUM DOORS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED DOOR REPLACEMENT WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT DOORS MATCHED THE HISTORIC DOORS AND PROFILE FINISHING MATERIAL, AND TWO, THAT THE ORIGINAL DOORS WOULD BE SALVAGED AND STORED ON SITE FOR POSSIBLE REUSE. IN THE FUTURE. UH, THE APPLICANT'S, UH, MR. AL ALI AND UM, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM H AND M ARE HERE, UH, VIRTUALLY, UH, COMMISSIONERS, PLEASE NOTE, UM, THIS WAS HEARD AT THE AUGUST 2ND H D R C HEARING WHERE IT WAS REFERRED TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING. AT THAT DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING, UH, THERE WAS A GENERAL CONSISTENT CONSENSUS FROM THE COMMITTEE, UM, THAT AN ALTERNATIVE BE PROPOSED. THAT ALTERNATIVE, UH, WAS INSTEAD OF HAVING, UH, GOING FROM THREE INDIVIDUAL DOORS OR THREE SETS OF DOORS TO TWO SETS OF DOORS, UH, THAT THE APPLICANT PUT FORTH AN OPTION, UH, THAT MAINTAINED THE, THE SET OF THREE, UH, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING ON THE SCREEN HERE NOW. UH, SO, UM, THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, I CAN ANSWER THOSE. IF NOT MR. ALI OR MS. DOLLIVER, UH, CAN ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. MR. CHAIR, IF, IF, UM, EDWARD IS ASKING FOR QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, I'D LIKE TO ASK EDWARD A QUESTION. ED EDWARD, IS THERE A VERY QUICK WAY THAT YOU CAN SYNOPSIS THE, THE ASK HERE? UH, I MEAN GENERALLY, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA TAKE ANYTHING FROM THE APPLICANT. UH, ESSENTIALLY THE APPLICANT IS NOTING THAT THE EXISTING DOORS ARE BEYOND THEIR TIME, THEIR TIME THE APPLICANT IS, UH, CONSIDERED [01:00:01] REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT. UM, THERE AREN'T PARTS AVAILABLE. THE, UH, DOOR MANUFACTURER SPECIALIZES IN THE REPAIR REHABILITATION OF HISTORIC DOORS LIKE THESE HAS CONFIRMED THAT THERE'S NOT THAT OPPORTUNITY. UM, THE DOORS ALSO DON'T CONFIRM, CONFIRM TO, UH, A D A ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS. UH, SO THE APPLICANT IS LOOKING TO REPLACE THE DOORS, GAIN A D A ACCESS TO WHERE ALL THREE DOORS CAN FUNCTION AND PROVIDE ADEQUATE A D A ACCESS AS WELL AS SECURITY. UH, AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER, UM, UH, OTHER, UH, MARKETING RELATED ISSUES THAT I THINK H AND M IS ALSO CONCERNED WITH. THANK, THANK YOU EDWARD. MR. AL ALI, UH, DO YOU WISH TO ADD ANYTHING TO THE PRESENTATION SO FAR? I'M SORRY, I HAVE NOT ADDED HIM. GIMME ONE SECOND. OKAY. MR. ALI, ARE YOU THERE? HI. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM, NO, I DO NOT HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP, UH, UH, AND THE REVIEW ON THE D R C AND, UM, WE MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION. OKAY. UH, COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, YOU HAD A QUESTION FOR STAFF? I, I ASKED IT. OKAY. YOU ANSWERED IT. CHAIRMAN. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR STAFF. UM, IS STAFF MAKING A RECOMMENDATION ON THE TWO OPTIONS? UH, YOUR WELL REMAINING NEUTRAL ON? WELL, I, I WILL SAY THIS. UM, GIVEN THE TIME THAT WE RECEIVED THE UPDATE, UM, IT WAS PASSED OUR NORMAL REVIEW WINDOW. SO OUR COMMENTS DO NOT REFLECT THIS, UH, OPTION THAT SHOWS THREE DOORS. UM, IF THERE WAS AN OPTION, IF YOU'RE ASKING STAFF TO PICK NOW, I THINK THAT OPTION THAT HAS THREE SETS IS MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE AS THAT IS CLOSER TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL PROFILE IS, RATHER THAN GOING FROM THREE SETS TO TWO SETS. MR. HOLLY, I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, QUICKLY PRODUCING THIS AND, AND SUBMITTING IT. AND I KNOW IT'S ALWAYS A LITTLE, A LITTLE AWKWARD WHEN WE RECEIVE THINGS AT THE LAST MINUTE LIKE THIS THAT'S IN, IN RESPONSE TO A D R C, BUT THIS WAS A, A REQUEST THAT, UH, THAT CAME OUT OF THE D R C PROCESS CHAIRMAN AND, AND, UM, I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR, FOR DESIGN OPTION B. UH, OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE ONE QUESTION YES. TO THE APPLICANT, AND IF THAT WAS A MOTION GOVERNOR, I, I TAKE IT, BUT, UH, ARE YOU IN AGREEMENT WITH THE STIPULATION STAFF WAS PROVIDED IN THE RECOMMENDATION? YES, WE ARE IN AGREEMENT. I I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. YES, SIR. SIR, IS THERE A, A REASON WHY THE CENTRAL BAY, UH, DOES NOT RECEIVE A, A DOOR THAT IS, UM, ARTICULATED AWAY FROM THE HISTORIC AR AREA WHERE, WHERE THE FRAMEWORK OF THE ORIGINAL DOOR IS, IS IT REMAINS, AND THEN THE, THE A D A ACCESS DOOR IS DESIGNED IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO, TO, UM, NOT, NOT DESTROY THE EXISTING FRAMEWORK, THE EXISTING FRAMEWORK AND THE EXISTING HARDWARE AND THE DOORS ARE, UH, DAMAGED AND BEYOND REPAIRED. THE CENTER DOORS, THE ORIGINAL CENTER DOORS HAVE BEEN LOCKED FOR 18 MONTHS BECAUSE THERE ARE NO PARTS FOR THE DOORS. AND IF WE DO REMAIN WITH THE ROUGH OPENINGS THAT WE HAVE, THE ROUGH OPENS IN EACH SINGLE DOOR HERE IS, IF I RECALL, UM, JUST, UH, 59 INCHES. SO FOR EACH SINGLE DOUBLE DOOR IT'S 59 INCHES. UM, SO THAT WOULD NOT WORK OUT WITH THE AADA A COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE BELOW BE BELOW THE, UH, AADA A COMPLIANCE THRESHOLD OF A DOOR OPENING. RIGHT. BUT NOW, AND THAT WOULD BE THREE, LEAVE THEM IF WE LEAVE THEM AS IS. BUT NOW ASIDE FROM THE DESIGN, UM, UM, CRITERIA RIGHT OF, OF, UM, OR, OR, OR WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE DESIGN DESIGN CRITERIA FOR AN A D A ENTRY, UH, D DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU RE YOU'VE RECEIVED REGULATORY, UM, REASONING THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THREE SETS OF DOORS. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT, THAT THE CENTRAL UNIT IS A SINGLE DOOR THAT IS A 40 INCH DOOR? AND I MEAN, DOES THAT FACILITATE A D A AND DOES THAT FACILITATE THE TRAFFIC NEEDS PER CODE OR, OR IN, IN OTHER WORDS, UH, IN, IN TERMS OF INVESTIGATING THE POSSIBILITY THAT ALL ACCESS IS DONE THROUGH THE CENTER AND IF ONE DOOR, ONE SINGLE DOOR, UH, CAN FACILITATE THE A D A ACCESS AND THE TRAFFIC NEED, THEN PERHAPS THIS, [01:05:01] UH, THIS, UH, HISTORIC ENTRY DOESN'T HAVE TO BE, UH, UH, COMPLETELY, UH, DEMOLISHED. UH, IS THAT, IS THAT A CONSIDERATION THAT'S BEEN MADE OR HAS IT GONE THROUGH AN 88 STUDY FOR A SINGLE DOOR? OKAY, SO LET'S JUST BEGIN WITH, UH, THE HARDWARE ISSUE. UH, THE CHAIRMAN HAS SENT US AN EMAIL AND RECOMMENDATION TO CONTACT A FEW COMPANIES AND ONE PARTICULAR COMPANY, UNION DOOR COMPANY, WHICH WE SOURCE HARDWARES AND SOMETIMES HAVE HARDWARE FOR THESE KIND OF DOORS. THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY HARDWARE. THE ISSUE IS THE DOORS. UM, THEY SET THE DOORS TO BE LOCKED FOR 18 MONTHS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT OPERATE THE TWO, UH, DOORS ON THE, THE TWO ORIGINAL DOORS ON THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT, THEY OPEN A JAR, UM, TO, THEY NEVER CLOSED FULLY. AND 'CAUSE THE HARDWARE IS BROKEN, UH, ONE OF THE, THE LEFT SET DOORS, UM, THEY'RE BEYOND A D A COMPLIANT IN PUSHING AND PULLING TO, UH, UH, AGGRESS. SO WE HAVE, UH, LOOKED AT EVER THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE, UH, OF THE CHAIR. WE HAVE, UH, INVESTIGATED EVERY OF OUR OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE. AND THE RECOMMENDATION THAT WE CAME UP ON THE D R C IS TO COME UP WITH THE HELP WITH, UM, THE CO-CHAIR, UH, THE OUTGOING CO-CHAIR. MR. CARPENTER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP. UM, THIS IS A SUGGESTION THAT WE CAME WITH BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO REPAIRING THE DOORS OR, UM, AS WE HAVE SAID BEFORE, IF THE CITY IS WILLING TO GIVE US A WAIVER, UH, ON THE AADA A COMPLIANCE 'CAUSE THESE DOORS ARE NOT AADA A COMPLIANCE, THEN H AND M IS WILLING TO CONSIDER THAT, BUT THERE IS, WE FACE THE ISSUE OF HOW DO WE REPAIR THE DOORS. SO WE'RE KIND OF RUNNING AROUND THE CIRCLES HERE, CHASING OUR TAILS IS, UH, DO WE GET THESE DOORS AND FIX THEM? SORRY, DO WE GET THESE DOORS AND REPLACE THEM TO LIKE, FOR LIKE, AS MUCH AS WE CAN AND HAVING THE ORIGINAL, UH, EXTERIOR FACADE, WHICH IS WITH, UM, EDWARD, IF YOU CAN GO TO PAGE FIVE, PLEASE. MR. HALL, I THINK IT WAS PAGE NUMBER FIVE. UH, I'M SORRY. YOUR, UH, P D F MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM MINE. UH, DO YOU, IS IT A DRAWING SHEET OR PHOTOS OR A DRAWING SHEET WHERE IT SHOWS THE GOLDEN, YEAH. ONE BACK PLEASE. SO ALL OF THESE GOLDEN AR THESE PAGE ARCHES HERE, THESE ARE THE ORIGINAL HARDWARE, ORIGINAL, UH, FLUTES, UM, TRANSOM AND A TOP. UH, ALL THE INFIELDS ARE GONNA BE ORIGINAL. THE DOORS WHICH ARE NOT INFILL ARE GONNA BE NEW DOORS. SO YOU ARE STILL GONNA HAVE AN ELEMENT OF THE OLD HARDWARE OR THE OLD HARDWARE, BUT NOT THE DOOR HARDWARE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FRAMING AND THE TRANSOMS AND THE, UH, TWO FRAMES ON THIS ON THE END. AND IF WE GO TO THE NEW DESIGN THAT, UH, THAT WAS REVIEWED AND DISCUSSED IN THE RC. SO ALL OF THE, AGAIN, ONCE THING AGAIN, THE, THE COLOR INFILL IS GONNA BE THE ORIGINAL. THE, THE, UH, BLACK AND WHITE WILL BE THE NEW DOORS. SO THAT'S HOW MUCH WE'RE TRYING TO INCORPORATE, UH, INTO THAT. BUT WE DO NEED NEW DOORS, UH, TO MAKE IT A D A COMPLIANT AND TO SEAL THE BUILDING AND TO HAVE ACTUALLY DOORS THAT ARE, DO NOT HAVE LOCK CHAINS ON THEM BECAUSE THEY DON'T WORK. OKAY. AND THERE'S BEEN LOCK CHAINS ON THE FOR THE LAST 18 MONTHS. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER FISH. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT, UH, ABOUT DESIGN OPTION B. I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM WITH THE APPLICANT THAT DESIGN OPTION B, UH, IS AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION FOR YOU HERE TODAY. IT IS AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION FOR THE CLIENT. WE HAVE SPOKEN TO THEM, AND IF IT'S, UM, UH, ACCEPTABLE, IT'S APPROVED, THEN THE CLIENT CAN MOVE FORWARD AND, UH, BECAUSE THE FUNDS WILL DISAPPEAR FOR THIS PROJECT ON SEPTEMBER 1ST, UH, IT'LL BE ALLOCATED TO A DIFFERENT LOCATION. SO THAT'S WHY THEY JUST WANT TO GET THE, 'CAUSE THE MONEY'S BEEN A APPROPRIATED FOR THIS SINCE LAST YEAR, AND THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET APPROVAL SINCE LAST YEAR. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAD A VERY QUICK TURNAROUND AND WE WERE ABLE TO DISCUSS IT WITH THE DESIGN TEAM AND THEY HAVE APPROVED IT AND THEY WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS DESIGN. OTHERWISE, THE MONEY THAT'S BEING SET ASIDE FOR THIS PROJECT WILL BE ALLOCATED TO A DIFFERENT PROJECT IMMEDIATELY, SO IT DOESN'T GO BACK INTO THE TREASURY. AND, UM, IT MEANS THIS PROCESS WOULD HAVE TO BEGIN INTERNALLY BIT WITHIN THE H M ORGANIZATION FOR, UH, APPROVAL AND PREPARATION FUNDS, WHICH WILL BE NEXT YEAR. AND THEN THE DOORS WILL MEAN, WILL NOT BE CHANGED 2025. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER [01:10:01] SAVINA, UH, MR. CHAIR? UH, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, BUT IF THERE ARE NO QUESTIONS, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? GO AHEAD. UM, I, I MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT THE PROPOSAL FOR DESIGN OPTION B WITH ALL OF STAFF STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND, SECOND. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A ROLL. MR. MR. CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO JUST KIND OF POSE A QUESTION JUST TO OUR COMMISSION HERE, UH, IN THE D R C, WERE THERE EVER CONSIDERATIONS FOR, SAY, GLASS, GLASS, PARTITION, GLASS DOOR, MU MUCH LIKE WHAT THEY DO IN MEXICO CITY, WHEN, WHEN NOT WANTING TO TOUCH THE HISTORIC, THE MOVE AWAY FROM IT. AND IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S ENOUGH ROOM IN THE VESTIBULE TO TO, TO, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY ENCAPSULATE, RIGHT? THAT, THAT, THAT HISTORIC, UH, FACADE, WE SAY, SAY THE DOORS ARE, ARE, ARE LOCKED OPEN, AND THAT THE, THE DOOR SYSTEM IS IN FRONT. UM, THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL BUILDING, RIGHT? AND THESE, THESE, THESE DOORS ARE, ARE, UM, VERY IMPORTANT TO THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY. I, I, I ALSO AT THE SAME TIME WANT TO WANT TO BE ABLE TO SEPARATE MYSELF RIGHT FROM SAYING THAT MY EXPERIENCE IN THIS BUILDING MATTERS BECAUSE I THINK MAYBE I'M BEING, YOU KNOW, TAINTED BY MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT I DON'T WANNA SEE THESE DOORS GO. BUT I KNOW THAT, THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, I'M ONE IN, IN, IN THE GENERAL WHOLE OF PEOPLE THAT NEED TO GET IN AND OUT OF THIS BUILDING, RIGHT? SO I, I DON'T WANT TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, SAY, WELL, THEIR, THEIR GOAL, THE MEMORIES, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, I I THINK PART OF OUR, OUR, OUR TASK HERE IS TO BE SENSITIVE RIGHT TO THE HISTORY OF THIS BUILDING. AND WE CAN SEE HOW THE STREET LEVEL OF THIS BUILDING WRAP AROUND IS REALLY DISSOLVING. IT'S GOING AWAY WITH THE BLACK STOREFRONT AND ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE DESTROYING THIS BUILDING. THE, THE DOORS HERE ARE LIKE THE DOORS IN A LITTLE JEWELRY BOX. WE TAKE 'EM OUT AND THE THE LITTLE JEWELRY BOX, IT, IT, YOU, YOU AIN'T GOTTA PUT YOUR PRECIOUS THINGS IN IT ANYMORE BECAUSE IT, IT, THE DOOR IS THAT IMPORTANT. SO I JUST THINK THAT THERE'S POSSIBILITY THAT, THAT PERHAPS THE SOLUTION ISN'T ALTERING THESE DOORS, BUT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE LARGE, UM, VESTIBULE HERE TO, TO, UH, MAKING THE DOORS AN ARTIFACT BY, UM, OTHER MEANS MY THOUGHTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OTHER COMMENTS? YEAH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO COMMENT ON THAT. 'CAUSE I THINK YES, THERE, THERE'S SOME INTERESTING THOUGHTS THERE AND I, I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS, BUT, UM, I, WE, DURING THE D R C, WE DID DISCUSS COULD OTHER DOORS BE USED TO SATISFY THE ACCESSIBILITY CONCERNS HERE? AND THERE WERE FACTORS INVOLVED THERE EITHER STEPS OR TRANSITIONS OR THINGS LIKE THAT THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT POSSIBLE. AND SO THROUGH THAT DISCUSSION AND DIALOGUE, WE FELT LIKE, UH, HOW COULD WE SAVE AS MUCH OF THE MATERIAL AS POSSIBLE? AND PARTICULARLY THAT VERY DISTINCTIVE FLUTED SORT OF DECO, UH, DOOR JAMS AND THAT SORT OF DENTAL WORK ABOVE, ABOVE THE DOORS. AND IN THE INITIAL PROPOSAL OF THE TWO PAIR DOORS, THE PROPORTIONS WERE ALL OFF FOR THE SORT OF STREAMLINED DECO OF, UH, APPEAL OF THE, OF THE, UM, OF THE, THIS ENTRANCE. UH, SO THAT'S WHAT LED TO THE PROPOSAL OF TRYING TO GET BACK TO A TRIPARTITE, UH, PRESENTATION OF THESE DOORS, TO RETAIN SOME OF THAT SPIRIT AND ALSO RETAIN AS MUCH OF THE ORIGINAL MATERIALS AS POSSIBLE WHILE ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THE DOOR PANELS THEMSELVES WERE REALLY BEYOND THEIR SERVICEABLE LIFE AND THEIR HARDWARE COULDN'T MAKE THE ACCOMMODATIONS THAT WERE REQUIRED FOR, FOR ACCESSIBILITY. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 12, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 23 3 1 7 34 36 ROOSEVELT. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL SIGNAGE AT 34 36 ROOSEVELT LOCATED WITHIN THE MISSION HISTORIC DISTRICT. WITHIN THIS REQUEST, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED THE FOLLOWING, ONE, INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTER SIGNED TO FEATURE 11.6 FEET IN LENGTH AND EIGHT FEET IN EIGHT FEET IN HEIGHT FOR A TOTAL SIZE OF 92.8 SQUARE FEET. THE PROPOSED SIGN WILL FEATURE NON ILLUMINATED BACKER PANEL AND WILL WILL REPLACE AN EXISTING INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTER SIGN. ITEM [01:15:01] NUMBER TWO, INSTALL ONE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTER SIGN FEATURE 5.3 FEET IN LENGTH AND TWO FEET IN HEIGHT FOR A TOTAL SIZE OF 10.6 SQUARE FEET. THE PROPOSED SIGN WILL FEATURE A NON ILLUMINATED BACKER PANEL. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE REPLACEMENT WALL SIGN BASED ON FINDING C AS SUBMITTED STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO, A SECONDARY WALL SIGN. READING COCA-COLA LOCATED ON THE PRIMARY FACADE IS NOTED IN FINDING D UH, THE APPLICANT IS HERE VIRTUALLY. UH, MS. MS. SHARON MERCED. MS. MERCED, ARE YOU THERE? HELLO? GOOD AFTERNOON. HELLO? YES, I CAN HEAR YOU. OKAY. HI, I AM THE AGENDA ADDRESS, 34 36 ROSEBURG AVENUE, UH, H G I AIR CASE NUMBER 20 23 3 17, UH, IN THE HISTORY DISTRICT NAME MISSION, AND WE ARE, UH, UH, WE ARE APPLYING FOR A PER SIGNED PERMIT IN THIS PROPERTY. UH, WE ONLY, OUR SIGNED PROPOSAL IS BASIC IN TWO SIGN IN THE SIGN OF THE, IN THE TOP OF THE BUILDING, WHICH IS VITAL TACOS, VITALI, AND THE COCA-COLA SIGN, THE OTHER SIGN, THE THIRD SIGN THAT, UH, IT'S IN THE BUILDING BUT IS IN, IS NOT IN SAME WALL, UH, IS BEHIND THE, OR IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BUILDING, IT'S, UM, AN EXISTING SIGN IN THAT BUILDING. SO OUR TIME PROPOSAL IS A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, UH, DIFFERENT IN, IN THE TOTAL SQUARE FEET THAT THE, THAT THE REVIEWERS HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, ANANA ANALYZING OUR, OUR REQUEST. UH, IT'S JUST THE COCA-COLA SIGN THAT THEY, THEY DON'T WANT TO APPROVE OF, BUT WE SAY THAT WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, TOO MUCH SPACE IN THE, IN THE, IN THE AREA, IN THE WORLD AREA. IT'S, IT'S GOOD, HAS A GOOD SIZE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EXTRAORDINARY, UH, AND TAKING THE WHOLE, THE WHOLE WORLD. SO IT'S ONLY THAT AND WE ARE KINDLY REQUESTING APPROVAL FOR, FOR THAT TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR STAFF? MR. CHAIR? IF NOBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL DO A MOTION. OKAY. UM, I'LL MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. I THINK, UH, WELL, I'LL SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I THINK STAFF HAS IT RIGHT ON THIS ONE. I THINK WE'RE, I MEAN, UH, WE'RE NOT ASKING THE APPLICANT TO, UM, GET RID OF THE DRIVE THROUGH SIGN, UH, ACCEPTING A, A LARGER SIZE SIGN ON THE TOP, UM, WHICH, YOU KNOW, WE NORMALLY WOULD NOT, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE EXCEEDING THE NORMAL SIZE. UM, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT ABOUT THE, UH, THE SIZE AND AMOUNTS OF SIGNAGE. I'M NOT SURE IF, UM, THE PURPOSE OF THE COCA-COLA SIGN WILL, YOU KNOW, EVEN BENEFIT. UM, JUST I WOULD RATHER NOT INTRODUCE MORE SIGNAGE TO WHAT'S ALREADY EXISTING. AND COMMISSIONERS BRIEFLY, UM, THE SIGN THAT WE WILL READ MEXICAN STREET TACOS AND THE, THE NAME OF THE BUSINESS, UM, IS A BIT LARGER THAN WHAT WOULD NORMALLY BE RECOMMENDED. UM, HOWEVER, UH, WHEN THIS BUILDING WAS DESIGNED, IT CAME THROUGH THE COMMISSION AND THAT MARQUEE OR THAT AREA WAS, UH, SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO HOUSE SIGNAGE. UH, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY THE THIRD SIGN THAT'S BEEN PLACED THERE. UH, PROPORTIONATELY, IT, IT FITS WITH THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING AND THE ARCHITECTURE. SO WE FIND, UH, AN IN KIND OR A SIMILAR REPLACEMENT THERE TO BE APPROPRIATE. UM, HOWEVER, THE INTRODUCTION OF ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE, UH, THAT WOULD NEARLY DOUBLE, UH, THE AMOUNT OF RECOMMENDED SIGNAGE BY THE GUIDELINES IS WHAT WE FIND TO BE INAPPROPRIATE. MR. CHAIR, THANK YOU. YES, SIR. UH, I, I, UM, YOU, THIS PROJECT IS IN DISTRICT THREE, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE FREQUENT IT A LOT AND IT'S ALWAYS KIND OF AMAZING TO SEE THE SIZE OF THE BURGER SIGN, RIGHT? IT'S A GIGANTIC SIGN. SO IT'S, IT'S REALLY KIND OF A, I THINK IN TERMS OF THE APPLICANT, A VERY KIND OF COOL TRADE OFF BECAUSE THEY MOST DEFINITELY ARE GETTING A SIGN THAT IS GREATER THAN ANY SIGN IN THE SOUTH SIDE. UM, I, I WANNA SUPPORT THE MOTION, BUT I DO JUST WANT TO ADD THAT THE, THE COCA-COLA SIGN, IT DOES ADD A BIT OF, UM, UH, NOVELTY [01:20:01] AND, AND, AND KIND OF A, AN ARTISTIC BALANCE TO WHAT IS GONNA END UP BEING A BLANK FACADE. THAT, THAT, THAT COCA-COLA SIGN SIZED PROPERLY AND PLACED PROPERLY REALLY ADDS SOME, SOME SOMETHING TO THE, TO THE, TO THE BUILDING ITSELF. NOW, I, I AM SUPPORTING THE MOTION AS, AS IT IS, BUT I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ALSO BE ABLE TO, TO, TO LOOK AT IT FROM, YOU KNOW, THE SIGN AS A PART OF, UH, THE ARTISTIC BALANCE OF THAT, OF THAT STRUCTURE. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. OTHER COMMENTS? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINA? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. ZUKA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. TWO. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 13. AGENDA ITEM 13, H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 23 2 4 5 2 27. QUENTIN, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A ONE STORY STRUCTURE, APPROXIMATELY 1,459 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH O WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A SETBACK DIAGRAM SHOWING THE SETBACK RELATIVE TO ADJACENT STRUCTURES TO STAFFER REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C BASED ON FINDING D TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A DIAGRAM SHOWING THE SCALE AND MASSING OF THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE RELATIVE TO THE ADJACENT STRUCTURES, INCLUDING FOUNDATION AND FLOOR HEIGHTS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C BASED ON FINDING E THREE THAT THE APPLICANT MODIFIES THE ROOF PITCH TO BE IN KEEPING WITH THE PREDOMINANT LOWER SLOPED ROOFS OF ADJACENT STRUCTURES BASED ON FINDING F UPDATED ELEVATION DRAWINGS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO RETURN TO THE H D R C FOUR THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A TOTAL PERCENTAGE OF LOT COVERAGE TO STAFF FOR REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C BASED ON FINDING G FIVE, THAT THE FIVE RECEIVING SIDING FEATURE REVEAL NO MORE THAN SIX INCHES IN A SMOOTH TEXTURE BASED ON FINDING H SIX THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSES A SIDING, OR EXCUSE ME, A SKIRTING MATERIAL THAT IS MORE IN KEEPING WITH SKIRTING MATERIALS TRADITIONALLY FOUND IN THE DISTRICT AND SUBMITS UPDATED MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AND DRAWINGS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C BASED ON FINDING H UH, STIPULATION SEVENS IN REGARDS TO OUR WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS. EIGHT, THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSES AN UPDATED FENESTRATION PATTERN THAT FEATURES TRADITIONAL PROPORTIONS AND LOCATIONS FOR THE OPENINGS AND SEPARATION OF GAINED WINDOWS WITH MILLION OF APPROXIMATELY SIX INCHES AND ADDITIONAL OPENINGS ON THE EAST AND WEST ELEVATIONS. BASED ON FINDING J THE APPLICANT MUST SUBMIT UPDATED DRAWINGS TO STAFF PRIOR TO REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C, UH, KNOWING THAT THE, THAT THE HEIGHT OF THE SKIRTING IS REDUCED AND THAT THE EXTENSION OF THE SKIRTING IS UNIFORM ON THE SIDE. ELEVATIONS BASED ON FINDING K THE APPLICANT IS RESPONSIBLE, EXCUSE ME, IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT UPDATED DRAWINGS TO STAFF REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C 10 THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSES A DRIVEWAY THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES BASED ON FINDING L AND SUBMITS AN UPDATED MEASURED SITE PLAN AND STAFF REVIEW THAT DOES NOT EXCEED 10 FEET IN WIDTH AND A DRIVEWAY APRON THAT DOES NOT EXCEED 12 FEET IN WIDTH PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C 11, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A FINAL DIMENSION SITE PLAN FEATURING A FRONT WALKWAY THAT IS FOUR FEET IN WIDTH. THE STAFF REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C BASED ON FINDING M AND 12, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS A COMPREHENSIVE LANDSCAPING PLAN TO STAFF REVIEW PRIOR TO RETURNING TO THE H D R C BASED ON FINDING O UH, THE APPLICANT IS MR. REED KIRKSEY. HI, THANKS FOR HAVING ME. I'M REED KIRKSEY AND HERE ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND MY WIFE WHO CANNOT BE HERE. WE, UH, JUST HAD A NEWBORN ABOUT SIX DAYS AGO. SO GLAD SHE'S NOT HERE TAKING CARE OF THAT KID. INSTEAD OF, UM, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 2, 2 7 QUENTIN AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE STAFF HAS MADE ON THIS PROPERTY. UM, MOST OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE, I THINK ARE GOOD AND I CAN SUBMIT, UH, WHAT THEY'VE REQUESTED. UM, A COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT I'VE FINDING OR NOT, MAYBE NOT ISSUES, BUT JUST REQUEST FOR THE RECOMMENDATION TO BE STRIKED IS, UH, REC RECOMMENDATION NUMBER THREE, WHERE THE APPLICATION APPLICANT MODIFIES THE ROOF PITCH TO BE IN KEEPING WITH PREDOMINANT LOWER SLOPED AND OF ADJACENT STRUCTURES. UM, 2 3 5 [01:25:01] QUENTIN, 2 0 2 2 2 8 2 2 6 2 2 4 2 4 4 QUENTIN ALL HAVE STEEP ROOF PITCHES. SOME ARE MUCH STEEPER THAN SIX OVER 12 ROOF PITCHES. AND THE HOUSE I'M PROPOSING TO BUILD, UH, I BELIEVE WILL SCALE CORRECTLY ON THE STREET. UM, YES, THE HOUSES ON EITHER SIDE ARE LOWER PITCH ROOFS, BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF, SO TWO HOUSES DOWN IS A TWO STORY HOUSE THAT HAS GOT, I BELIEVE IN THE FIVE 12 RANGE, AND THEN 2 0 2 DEFINITELY IS LIKE A 1212 IF NOT GREATER PITCH ROOF. THERE'S JUST A NUMBER OF HOUSES ON THAT STREET THAT HAVE GREATER THAN WHAT AS A BUILDER CONSIDER A LOW PITCH ROOF WOULD BE LIKE A TWO 12 PITCH. AND I'M, I, I JUST DON'T SEE THAT WHAT WOULD FIT, UH, FOR THIS HOUSE. UM, ADDITIONALLY, UM, THE RECOMMENDATION, RECOMMENDATION NUMBER FIVE FOR THE FIBER CEMENT SIDING FEATURE REVEALED NO MORE THAN SIX INCHES IN A SMOOTH TEXTURE. UH, 2, 2 4, QUENTIN, 2, 2 3, 2 3, 1, 2, 3 5 AND 2 5 4 ALL HAVE WOOD GRAIN SIDING. SOME OF IT IS LAPSED SIDING. UH, AND SOME OF IT IS THAT OLD ASBESTOS SHINGLE SIDING, WHICH IS JUST, IT'S NOT USED ANYMORE, UH, FOR THE ASBESTOS PURPOSES, BUT IT'S ALL WOOD GRAINED MATERIAL. AND SO THE MATERIAL THAT I'M RECOMMENDING USE IS, UH, A WOOD GRAINED FIBER CEMENT MATERIAL. IT'S THE HARDY EQUIVALENT. UM, AND IT'S GOT A SEVEN INCH REVEAL, NOT THE SIX INCH. THE STAFF IS, UM, RE RECOMMENDING. UM, MOVING ON, RECOMMENDATION NUMBER SIX THAT THE SKIRTING MATERIAL WILL BE IN KEEPING WITH TRADITIONALLY FOUND IN THE DITCH IN THE DISTRICT. A BUNCH OF ADDRESSES HERE, 2 2 2 0 2 2 0 6, 2 11, 2 35, 2 51, 2 55, AND 2 59 ALL HAVE MASONRY SKIRTING THAT IS IN VARYING HEIGHTS AND MATERIAL. UH, THERE'S NOT A UNIFORM MATERIAL OR PATTERN USED ON THE STREET. AND SO I'M HAPPY TO PROVIDE, UM, THE SKIRTING MATERIAL. I, I REALIZE I HAVE NOT DONE THAT, BUT, UH, JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT VARIAN VARIANCE, UH, VARIATION ON THE STREET, AND IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHAT IS KEEPING WITH THE AREA WHEN THE AREA IS JUST SO DIFFERENT. UM, LET'S SEE. I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE THAT'S ALL OF THE ISSUES OR THINGS THAT I WANTED TO BRING UP. UH, COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE ONE VOICEMAIL. UM, IF CHAIRMAN, IF YOU WANNA PLAY THAT NOW? YES, PLEASE. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 13, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 2 DASH 2 4 5 2 2 7. QUENTIN, MY NAME IS BIANCA MALDONADO. I CHAIR THE MONTICELLO PARK ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE OFFERING COMMENTS ON BEHALF OF DREA GARZA, PRESIDENT OF M P N A AND OUR M P N A BOARD OF DIRECTORS. WE THANK THE APPLICANT FOR HIS COMMITMENT TO BUILD A NEW HOME ON THE 200 BLOCK OF QUENTIN, AND THANK HIM FOR RESPONDING TO H DRCS. CONCERNS EXPRESSED DURING THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING. WE AGREE AND STRONGLY SUPPORT ALL STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, ALL 12 OF THEM, AND OFFER THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS. THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE THE NEW HOME IS A BIT INTERTWINED WITH RANCH AND CRAFTSMEN, AND WE RAISE CONCERN WITH THE FOLLOWING ELEMENTS, WHICH WE HOPE CAN BE REFINED AS THE APPLICANT WORKS TOWARDS FINAL APPROVAL. NUMBER ONE, THE USE OF DRY STACKED STONE WA AND COATING IS AN INCONSISTENT MATERIAL FOR HOMES IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE WOULD RECOMMEND STONE OR BRICK AS ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS FOR THE WAINS COATING AND FOR IT TO BE EXTENDED TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT ELEVATIONS. NUMBER TWO, THE COLLINS TAPER AND HAVE UNUSUAL BRACKETS THAT SHOULD BE REFINED. NUMBER THREE, THE EXPOSED BEAM FOUR BY 12 ON THE FRONT FACADE ARE UNNECESSARY EMBELLISHMENTS. NUMBER FOUR, THE FRONT DOOR SHOULD BE OF WOOD CONSTRUCTION. IT IS UNSPECIFIED IN THE PLANS AND SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE HOMES ARCHITECTURE. NUMBER FIVE, WE THANK THE OWNER FOR REORIENTING THE GABLE ROOF, BUT AGREE THAT WITH STAFF THAT ITS MASSING IS STILL NOT IN SCALE WITH THE OVERALL CHARACTERISTICS OF THE ROOF ON THIS BLOCK. A HIP ROOF WITH A GABLE VENTING WOULD BE A MORE APPROPRIATE EN MASSING, THE LEFT AND RIGHT NUMBER SIX, THE LEFT AND RIGHT [01:30:01] ELEVATION STILL NEED ADDITIONAL ARTICULATION WITH RESPECT TO WINDOW FENESTRATION, THE MASSING OF THE GABLES AND THE MASONRY WA WAINS COATING. WE WISH THE APPLICANT'S SUCCESS AND LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH HIM AS HE PROGRESSES TO FINAL. THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION OF OUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU. WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S COMMENTS? UM, SHE MENTIONED SOME POSTS IN THERE, UM, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN SOMETHING I MISSED OVER AGAIN. IT'S JUST THE STREET HAS LOTS OF DIFFERENT STYLE COLUMNS. UH, FOR THE FRONT PORCHES, THERE'S A NUMBER THAT HAVE EIGHT BY EIGHT, UH, PRESSURE TREATED COLUMNS. THERE'S A NUMBER THAT HAVE THE METAL DECORATIVE COLUMNS. THERE'S A NUMBER THAT HAVE FOUR BY FOUR PRESSURE TREATED COLUMNS AND SIX BY SIX. AND SO IT'S JUST HARD TO KNOW WHAT'S ACCEPTABLE OR WHAT, WHAT IS IN SYNC WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN ESPECIALLY THIS BLOCK HAS SO MUCH VARIATION. UM, ALSO THE FENESTRATION PATTERN, UH, HAS BEEN CALLED OUT. UM, I BELIEVE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TWO ELEVATIONS, THE EAST AND WEST ELEVATIONS. UH, IT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WINDOWS ON EITHER SIDE. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S, I MEAN, TO ME THAT'S A PERSONAL OPINION, UH, BUT 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE 'EM FROM THE STREET, UH, I GET THAT THERE'S SOME HISTORIC, UH, VALUE ON, OR NOT VALUE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING. ANYWAYS, I'M OPEN TO RECOMMENDATIONS. THERE'S NOT A SPOT ON THOSE PLANS WHERE I CAN ADD A NUMBER OF WINDOWS ON EITHER SIDE. UH, ONE, MOST OF THEM ARE IN THE BATHROOM. YOU DON'T ADD EXTRA WINDOWS IN A BATHROOM. AND SO, MR. CHAIR, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YES, SIR. UH, ON THE, THE LIST OF, UH, OF 12 ITEMS, WHICH, WHICH ARE THE ITEMS THAT YOU'RE NOT, UH, UM, IN AGREEMENT WITH? IF I COULD JUST GIMME THE NUMBERS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL ME WHICH THEY'RE SURE. EDWARD, CAN YOU PUT THOSE ON THE SCREEN? UH, YES. SORRY. COMMISSIONERS. I, I HIGHLIGHTED THOSE. SO IT'S THREE, FIVE, AND SIX, I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. AND LET'S MAKE 'EM BIGGER. YEAH. THANK YOU EDWARD. MR. CHAIR? YES. COMMISSIONER GROUP. I WOULD LIKE TO DO A MOTION TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE A MOTION? OKAY, GO AHEAD AND I'LL JUSTIFY IT. UM, I'LL MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS. AND THIS IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, ALL TO APPROVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. OKAY. UH, DISCUSSION. UM, AND I THINK, UM, I THINK A LOT OF YOUR QUESTIONS AND SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS COULD ACTUALLY BE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSED IN AN ADDITIONAL DESIGN MEETING. I THINK YOU'RE GOING THE RIGHT WAY. UM, I WANTED TO KEEP THE, THE THREE STIPULATIONS STILL THERE. I MEAN, STILL JUST UP FOR DISCUSSION BECAUSE I DO FEEL, UM, STIPULATION THREE, I DO FEEL LIKE THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT LIKE JUST THE STREET AND THE BLOCK, BUT I ALSO FEEL LIKE YOU SHOULD LOOK OUT TO THE DISTRICT. SO ONE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. I I DO LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS WILL BE THE THIRD, WELL, IT'S CURRENTLY SECOND NEW BUILD, BUT THIRD NEW BUILD APPROVED SINCE THE NINETIES. SO I'M JUST GONNA SAY I, I FEEL LIKE I, I WANT TO BE A LITTLE BIT EXTRA PICKY AND EXTRA REALLY, LIKE, JUST MAKING SURE WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. AND THAT'S WHY I DO WANNA KEEP THOSE STIPULATIONS. YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUSTIFYING IT, I THINK, BASED ON WHAT'S EXISTING IN THE STREET. BUT I DO ALSO WANT YOU TO LOOK A LITTLE FURTHER OUT IN THE DISTRICT, JUST IN WITHIN THE SAME, YOU KNOW, FEW STREETS OVER AND BACK, UM, FOR THE ROOF. I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD DID COME WITH SOME, YOU KNOW, GOOD OPTIONS THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED. UM, STIPULATION FIVE IS VERY COMMON FOR NEW BUILDS. I THINK WE'RE GONNA KEEP THE, YOU'LL FIND THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE, YOU KNOW, SEE IN ALL NEW BUILDS. YOU WON'T SEE IT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE NEW BUILDS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THEN, UM, STIPULATION SIX, THE SKIRTING MATERIAL, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAME UP WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS. IT IS TRUE. AND YOU SAID JUST HARD TO FIND EXAMPLES. THERE REALLY IS EXAMPLES OF SKIRTING AROUND HISTORIC HOMES IN THE DISTRICT. UM, BUT THE FEW THERE ARE, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE THAT LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAKES ME STAND. MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBORHOOD SUGGEST THIS BREAK, BUT YOU CAN FIND OPTIONS OR MAYBE JUST RECONSIDER IT. SURE. SO THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO KEEP THOSE STIPULATIONS ON THERE. THE WINDOW STIPULATION IS SUPER IMPORTANT, EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN'T SEE THE EAST AND [01:35:01] THE WEST SIDE OF THE ELEVATIONS, I FEEL, UH, WE ARE VERY CONSISTENT ABOUT HAVING, YOU KNOW, FE RATIO ALONG OR SOMETHING THAT JUST, YOU KNOW, BREAKS UP THE WALL AND NOT MAKE LIKE LONG BLANK SPACES. SO EVEN IF YOU HAVE BATHROOMS OR, OR HOWEVER THE DESIGN IS ON THE SIDE, OUR PREVIEW IS ON THE OUTSIDE. UM, SOMEHOW, I MEAN, I KNOW YOU WON'T MAKE IT WORK. YOU CAN MAKE IT WORK AND IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT, UM, THAT WE DO FIND, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT MORE APPARENT OF FENESTRATIONS ON THOSE ELEVATIONS. SO, YOU KNOW, KEEP CONSIDERING THAT AS WELL. AND I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS, UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FOUR BY 12 BEAMS. I THINK IT WAS JUST LIKE THE ADDED CROSS BEAMS THAT YOU HAVE ON THE FRONT. I THINK THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY USUALLY EITHER FIND IN, IN, UM, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THAT WAS MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. YES, THANK YOU. AND I, I CONCUR WITH EVERYTHING THAT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER JUST MENTIONED. I ALSO LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO ARE YOU GOING TO BE MOVING YOUR FAMILY INTO THIS HOME? THAT IS, THAT IS OUR PLAN. FANTASTIC. WELCOME. CONGRATULATIONS ON THE, ON THE NEW BABY AND, AND WELCOME TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THANKS. UM, I, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY THERE'S A LOT OF VARIETY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT YOU WANNA TRY TO DO IS FIND WITHIN YOUR OWN HOME SOME CONSISTENCY OF, OF ATTITUDE, OF STYLE AND NOT MAKE IT TOO MUCH OF A, A GRAB BAG. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT AR ARCHITECTURAL STYLES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO DRAW UPON. PICK THE ONE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, MOST DEAREST TO YOUR HEART AND KIND OF RIFF OFF OF THAT RATHER THAN SORT OF TRY TO COBBLE SOME THINGS TOGETHER. I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S COMMENTS ABOUT THAT KIND OF LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION OF, IS IT CRAFTSMAN? IS IT, YOU KNOW, RANCH, MID-CENTURY MODERN? YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S, IT'S GOTTEN A LITTLE MUDDLED AS A RESULT OF THAT. SO I AGREE. I THINK YOURE REALLY CLOSE. I THINK THE, THE MASSING IN WHAT YOU HAVE HERE, THE, THE MATERIAL MATERIAL PALETTE IS VERY APPROPRIATE. I THINK THERE'S SOME OF JUST THOSE DETAILS THAT CAN GET HAMMERED OUT. AND I THINK WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND CONTINUED DIALOGUE WITH THEM AND WITH US, IF YOU WANNA COME BACK FOR A D R C, YOU'RE GONNA GET THERE. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. MR. CHAIR? YES, SIR. UM, LOOK, LOOKING AT THE, UM, THE LEVEL OF, UM, INSPECTION BY STAFF, UH, FOR THERE TO BE QUITE, QUITE A NICE LIST OF, OF, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, THE, THE, THE GENTLEMAN IS, IS, UM, UH, HE'S IN LINE WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF WHAT STAFF IS, UM, UH, REQUESTING NOW IN THE CONTEXT OF A CONCEPTUAL, ACCEPTING ALL OF THE REC, ALL OF THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS EXCEPT FOR THE THREE THAT HE'S ASKING FOR, TAKES EVERYTHING THAT STAFF IS LOOKED AT IN CONCEPTUAL AND REALLY GETS HIM FAR DOWN THE LINE WITHOUT HIM HAVING TO COME BACK FOR CONCEPTUAL AGAIN. NOW HE'S ASKING FOR THREE THINGS. PITCH THE, THE FIBER DIMENSION AND, AND THE QUALITY OF STONE IN A CONCEPTUAL, THE, THE TERM STONE CAN BE APPROVED AND, AND STAFF AND HE CAN HASH OUT. OR IN THE NEXT PHASE, THEY CAN HASH OUT WHAT STONE IS APPROPRIATE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAYNE'S COATS THROUGHOUT THAT AREA, THERE'S A VARIATION OF STONE. OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S NOT ONE, LIKE THE ONE THAT IS BEING VERY POPULAR NOW THAT WE KIND OF SEE MORE AS INAPPROPRIATE IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. RIGHT. UH, BUT THERE ARE, THERE ARE OPTIONS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HE, HE, HE MAY, UH, BE OPEN TO STILL WITH, WITH A BASIC APPROVAL OF CONCEPTUALLY SAYING STONE IS RIGHT. THE PITCH, UM, CAN, CAN BE AN ARGUMENT BECAUSE IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THE HOUSES THAT HAVE THE LOW PITCH HAVE THE LOW PITCH BECAUSE OF BUDGETARY, UM, CONSIDERATIONS IN THAT PERIOD AND THAT STYLE OF HOUSE, WHICH IS NOT NECESSARILY A RANCH HOUSE, RIGHT? IT, IT, THEY, THEY WERE VERY SMALL HOUSES AND THEY WERE CLOSER TO TRACT HOUSES WHERE THE PITCHES CAME DOWN 'CAUSE THEY WERE CHEAPER. THAT DOESN'T MAKE 'EM BETTER, RIGHT? SO HE'S CLEARLY HEADED TOWARD A CERTAIN DESIGN STYLE. UM, IT IS AN ANOMALY, BUT IT'S, IT'S IN KEEPING WITH THE OTHER ANOMALIES IN THAT AREA THAT ARE CLEARLY THE HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT OUTSIDE OF THE STYLE, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK ACROSS THE STREET. THEY'RE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT HOUSES AND THE HOUSES ON HIS SIDE OF THE STREET. ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, I THINK THAT, THAT IT, IT, IT MIGHT BE VERY APPROPRIATE FOR, TO MAKE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION, UH, TO APPROVE WITH ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS LESS THREE AND FIVE AND THE MATERIAL OF SIX, YES. BUT THE TYPE OF MATERIAL THAT HE COMES BACK AND CONSIDERS MATERIALS THAT ARE CLOSER TO WHAT IS IN THAT, IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THAT'S A SUBSTITUTE MOTION. SECOND. OKAY. WE HAVE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION AND A SECOND DISCUSSION. [01:40:02] CAN I CLARIFY THAT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I HEARD WAS A DETAIL ABOUT STIPULATION SIX? YES, SIR. THAT, THAT HE CONCEPTUALLY THREE AND FIVE FROM THERE, DELETE, DELETE ITEM ITEM THREE, THANK YOU. AND FIVE AND MATERIAL CHANGE IN SIX. MR. CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT. YES. COMMISSIONER GROUP. I AM, UH, AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE GONE RIGHT TO FINAL WITH A LOT OF STIPULATIONS IN THIS CASE. I WILL JUST ASK MY COMMISSIONERS TO DO CONSIDER, UH, CONCEPTUAL FOR NOW. UM, BUT LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS WOULD BE THE THIRD NEW BUILD WE APPROVED SINCE THE NINETIES IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, ONLY ONE IS ACTUALLY BEING BUILT RIGHT NOW. SO I REALLY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE WITH THE APPLICANT ON MATERIALS AND ON EVERYTHING. AND, AND, AND IT MAY JUST BE ONE ADDITIONAL MEETING. WE HAD A CASE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT, THREE IN APRIL THAT WE WENT BACK AND FORTH WITH THE APPLICANT MAYBE SIX TIMES. AND THE APPLICANT IS ACTUALLY, UH, BUILDING RIGHT NOW, FINISHING UP THE HOUSE. AND SUPER GRATEFUL THAT WE WENT BACK AND FORTH BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY FELT LIKE THEY ENDED UP WITH A MUCH BETTER DESIGN. SO I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT CONSIDERATION TO MY CURRENT COMMISSIONERS, MR. CHAIRMAN, TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT. I, I AGREE WITH THAT KIND OF CAUTION, UH, BECAUSE OF THE, THE RARITY OF NEW, NEW BUILDS WITHIN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT I THINK YOU'RE MUCH FURTHER ALONG THAN THAT OTHER APPLICANT WAS. AND SO I THINK THIS IS ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE TO BE AT A, AT A, UH, CONCEPTUAL LEVEL OF APPROVAL WITH THESE, THESE ITEMS OF STIPULA, THESE STIPULATION ITEMS TO, TO WORK THROUGH MOVING TOWARDS VINYL. AND, AND MR. CHAIR, I, I, I DON'T, UM, IN SPIRIT DISAGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. IT'S JUST THAT I I DO CONSIDER THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS TO THIS DEGREE REPRESENT, UH, UH, SOMEWHAT OF A NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE APPLICANT AND STAFF. AND THE APPLICANT IS SAYING THAT HE'S, HE'S ALL RIGHT WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE, THESE, UH, STIPULATIONS. SO HE COMES IN PUTTING NINE STIPULATIONS ON THE TABLE, AND, AND THE OTHER THREE I THINK ARE VERY PARTICULAR TO HIS, TO HIS STYLE AND HIS LIFESTYLE AND, AND HIS INTRODUCTION OF HIS PERSONALITY IN AN AREA THAT, THAT ALLOWS THE ANOMALY BY EVIDENCE IN THE, THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT IN THAT AREA. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FAITH FOR, UH, THE APPLICANT TO BE ABLE TO LEAVE KNOWING THAT HE'S NOT GONNA HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE PITCH, WHICH IS PROBABLY BETTER FOR HIS HOUSE. HE'S NOT GONNA HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE DIMENSION OF THE FIBER, UH, BOARD. AND HE'S STILL GONNA NEGOTIATE ON THE SIX. HE'LL GET HIS WAINS COAT, HE KNOWS HE'S LEAVING WITH A WAIN'S COAT, AND WE JUST HAVE TO AGREE ON WHAT THE, WHAT THE, WHAT THE, UH, STONE IS. AND, AND THEN THERE'S THE OTHER SEVEN THAT IT'S CONCEPTUAL. SO THERE'S STILL A LOT OF WORK THAT HAS TO BE DONE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THOSE. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. UM, I'LL BE SUPPORTING THE ORIGINAL MOTION IF THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION DOESN'T PASS, KNOWING THAT, UM, IT IS CONCEPTUAL AND THAT, UH, WITH SOME FURTHER DOCUMENTATION, UH, PHOTOS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO DOCUMENT THE ROOF PITCHES THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING, UH, THE, THE, UH, CEMENT SIDING, UH, EXPOSURE AND, AND POSSIBLE SKIRTING MATERIALS. UH, I THINK COMING BACK, I WOULD RECOMMEND COMING BACK TO A D R C IF WE GET TO THAT POINT AND, UM, UH, DEALING WITH ALL OF THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS AS WELL. SO, UM, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? ON THE SUBSTITUTE MOTION GIBBS, CAN YOU REITERATE THE MOTION? SO THE MOTION WE'RE VOTING ON NOW IS FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF'S STIPULATIONS, MINUS THE ONES THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED. UM, AND THEN CLARIFICATION THAT THE SKIRTING MATERIAL CAN, CAN STILL COME BACK AND BE PROPOSED AS AN ALTERNATE. IS A FINAL APPROVAL CONCEPTUAL, CORRECT? NO CONCEPTUAL. IT'S STILL CONCEPTUAL. CONCEPTUAL. WE CAN'T ACT ON FINAL AS OPPOSED AS CONCEPTUAL? NO, THIS IS, THIS IS, IT'S STILL CONCEPTUAL. YES, SIR. MR. CHAIR, LEMME JUST CLARIFY THAT THAT IS THE REASON WHY I THINK IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE FOR HIM TO GO WITH A COUPLE OF THINGS BECAUSE HE'S AGREEING TO EVERYTHING, BUT HE'S LEAVING HERE, COMING BACK FROM SCRATCH, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE PRETTY FAR DOWN THE LINE. A PERSON THAT'S GOTTA GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD, CHANGING THAT ROOF PITCH WILL KNOW THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO COMPLETELY REDESIGN. SO IF, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STAYING WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE FIRST MOTION, THEN WE HAVE TO BE UPFRONT ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE'RE [01:45:01] TALKING ABOUT A HOUSE THAT LEANS MORE TOWARDS A RANCH HOUSE. AND THAT'S KEEPING IN MIND THAT THOSE ARE CASEMENT WINDOWS WITH PARTICULAR RHYTHMS. BUT IF YOU DO A GOOGLE, UH, UH, STREET VIEW AND YOU LOOK AT THAT AREA WITHIN SAY, 15 HOUSES THIS WAY, 15 HOUSES THIS WAY, IT, THERE'S AN ANOMALY OF, I MEAN, THERE'S A, THERE'S A RANGE OF HOUSES AND ROOF PITCHES AND STYLES AND TWO STORIES AND ONE STORIES. I THINK WE THAT, THAT HE'S COMING CHAIR POINT OF ORDER. YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR, OH, OKAY. YOUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU, SIR. ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS NAYYY FISH. NAY, SENO NAY VELAZQUEZ AYE. ZUKO NAY. CARPENTER. NAYYY GROUP. NAYYY CERVANTES. YES. HOLLAND NAY AND FETZER NAY. MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. UH, ROLL CALL PLEASE. ON THE ORIGINAL MOTION, GIBBS AYE. FISH? AYE. SINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. MAZUA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. ORIGINAL MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 15, I THINK WE SKIPPED 14. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 14, H C CASE, I'M SORRY, 2023 DASH 3 21. UH, 3 27 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT ONE STORY, UM, I'M SORRY, ONE TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY STRUCTURE AND ONE ONE STORY DETACHED GARAGE AT 3 27 EAST KINGS HIGHWAY. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH Y STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. ITEM ONE, UH, THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDED DIAGRAM SHOWING THE HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IN RELATION TO THE NEIGHBORING TWO STORY STRUCTURE, INCLUDING PROPOSED FOUNDATION AND FLOOR HEIGHTS BASED ON FINDING F N G. UM, NUMBER TWO, STAFF FINDS THAT THE APPLICANT SHOULD SIMPLIFY THE PROPOSED MATERIAL PALLET AND INCORPORATE MATERIALS THAT ARE IN KEEPING WITH THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE BLOCK BASED ON FINDING J. ITEM THREE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT FINAL PRODUCT DETAILS FOR THE WINDOWS AND DOORS PRIOR TO RETURNING THE H T R C BASED ON FINDING K, AND YOU'LL FIND OUR STANDARD WINDOW STIPULATION. UM, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSED WINDOW SIZES, PATTERNS, PROPORTIONS AND TRIM, AND STILL DETAIL THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND HISTORIC PRECEDENTS IN THE DI IN THE DISTRICT AS AN INFIN L IN ITEM FIVE, THAT THE NEW CONSTRUCTION INCORPORATES ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS THAT ARE RESPECTFUL OF THE HISTORIC CONTEXT AND ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES BASED ON FINDING M ITEM SIX THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS FOR PROPOSED PORCH COLUMNS FOR STAFF REVIEW BASED ON FINDING N SEVEN THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS LANDSCAPE ELEMENTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY IN THE DISTRICT AND SUBMITS A COMPREHENSIVE LANDSCAPING PLAN TO STAFF PRIOR TO RETURNING H T R C BASED ON FINDING R ITEM EIGHT, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A GARAGE THAT WITH THE DESIGN THAT MIMICS WOOD CONSTRUCTION AND FEATURES A SMOOTH FINISH WITHOUT A FAUX WOOD GRAIN TEXTURE. FINAL GARAGE DOOR SPECIFICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO RETURNING H T R C BASED ON FINDING X AND NUMBER, UM, NINE, THAT THE APPLICANT MEETS ALL SETBACK STANDARDS AS REQUIRED BY CITY ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAIN A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS IF APPLICABLE. AND THE APPLICANT, UH, RAUL SALVA IS ATTENDING IN PERSON. HELLO, GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE I AM REPRESENTING, UM, OUR CLIENT, UH, MR. PAT MALONEY. AND IN REGARDS TO THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, IN REGARDS TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS, I DID SUBMIT, UH, UPDATED DRAWINGS, UH, WITH THOSE UPDATED COMMENTS AND HAVE MET MULTIPLE TIMES WITH THE MONTE VISTA, UH, ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE AND ACTUALLY WORKED WITH ON, ON A, A ONE-ON-ONE BASIS, UM, SINCE THEY KIND OF ASSIGNED A, A MEMBER, UH, TO WORK WITH, UM, WITH ME ON, ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, WHICH WAS, UH, MARIO PENA. AND, UM, DOING THAT ON OUR LAST MEETING, UM, THEY, WE ADDRESSED ALL THE FENESTRATIONS ON THE, ON THE PROP ON THE WINDOWS OF THE, OF THE PROJECT AND, UH, MATERIALS IN REGARDS TO THAT. UM, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS BESIDES COMING TODAY WITH MAYBE A SAMPLE OF THE STONE AND OR THE, UH, STUCCO FINISH, UH, FOR THEM TO, UH, I GUESS TO PRESENT. UM, I DID CHANGE THE, WE DID [01:50:01] CHANGE THE, UM, ORIGINAL DESIGN OF THE GARAGE, WHICH HAD A SHED ROOF, AND WE JUST WENT AHEAD AND, AND CHANGED THAT ALSO. UM, AGAIN, UH, I THINK THAT'S, UH, WE DID CHANGE THE, UH, WINDOWS AND STYLES, UH, ADDED, UH, MOLD, MOLD WINDOWS AND, UH, DIVIDED LIGHTS ON THERE TO KIND OF GO WITH MORE OF THE STYLE. UM, AGAIN, AND THEY ARE, UH, WE DID RECESS THE WINDOWS, UH, TWO INCHES. AND ON THE PACKET I DID, UM, ADD A WINDOW DETAIL SHOWING THAT PARTICULAR, UM, UH, DETAIL ON ALL THE WINDOWS AND DOORS, UH, FOR THE PROJECT. UM, AND ALSO IN REGARDS TO THE, UM, IN THE PACKET, WE CAN SEE THE, UM, FOUNDATION SLOPE AND HOW IT'S, OR, OR JUST THE, THE SKIRTING OF IT, OF, OF WHAT'S THE AVERAGE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH WAS APPROXIMATELY LIKE THREE AND A HALF, UH, FEET, UH, ONE FOOT AND WE'RE LIKE RIGHT THERE. SO, UM, AND WHAT ELSE? OH, THE SETBACKS WE DO ALIGN WITH WHAT THE AVERAGE SETBACK OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE BLOCK IS. UM, EVEN THOUGH PER OUR FIVE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE 10 FOOT SETBACK, BUT WE GO A LITTLE BIT FURTHER BACK AND ADDRESS THAT PORTION. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, HOPEFULLY. OKAY. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY VOICEMAILS FOR THIS? NO, BUT WE DO HAVE ONE LETTER AND IT'S IN YOUR PACKET. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? COMMISSIONER, FISH? I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE SETBACK AS IT RELATES TO THE, THE PROPERTY ON THE, ON THE RIGHT. IS IT FURTHER BACK THAN THE, THAN BOTH THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES? IS IT FURTHER BACK? UM, SO YOU DESCRIBED THE SETBACK AS BEING AVERAGE OF THE BLOCK. I GUESS I'M ASKING MORE SPECIFICALLY THE, WHAT IS IT SETBACK RELATED TO THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES? SO ON, UH, SHEET A THREE ONE, UM, I DID A DIAGRAM DOING THE AVERAGE SETBACKS FOR THAT STREET. UM, SO THE PROPERTY RIGHT NEXT TO IT ARE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE, OF OUR, UH, OUR SITES WOULD BE 21.1, UM, FROM THE SETBACK OR THEIR SETBACK. AND UH, THE ONE ON THE RIGHT WOULD BE 21.7, UM, ON THE SETBACK. AND YOURS IS 26 1 FROM THE SAME POINT OF MEASURING? THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. COMMISSIONER GROUP? YEAH, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS TOO. UM, SO STAFF HAS NOT HAD TIME TO REVISE ANY UPDATED DRAWINGS? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT? YEAH, WE HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO UPDATE ANY RECOMMENDATION BASED ON LATE SUBMITTALS. OKAY. SO, WELL THIS, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TODAY IS NOT PART OF THE LATE SUBMITTALS. THIS IS WHAT WAS POSTED. YEAH. YEAH. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NEW. WELL, THIS THOUGHT YOU SAID EARLIER THAT YOU HAD SUBMITTED SOME NEW DOCUMENTS TO I DID ADDRESS THE STIPULATIONS. OKAY. SO IT'S, THE STAFF HAS REVIEWED IT AND, AND KEEPING SOME OF THE STIPULATIONS, WELL, I GUESS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ONES WHEN WE MET LAST TIME IN APRIL FOR D R C. NO, MA'AM. UM, ACTUALLY I APOLOGIZE. UH, I SPOKE TO RACHEL AND BECAUSE TO GET THIS, THIS MEETING, I NEEDED TO SUBMIT DRAWINGS, UH, ON OR BEFORE, WHAT WAS IT, WHAT THE DEADLINE WAS. UM, AND IT WAS SUBMITTED. I PUT THE APPLICATION ON THERE AND, UH, I MEAN ALL THE DRAWINGS AND EVERYTHING WHICH YOU'RE SEEING, SO, OKAY. THESE ARE THE ONES MM-HMM. . OKAY. I JUST WANTED, I DIDN'T WANNA UNDERSTAND. SO, UM, I WAS ALSO PART OF THAT, UM, MEETING IN APRIL MM-HMM. . UM, SO I, I MEAN, I SEE SOME CHANGES, BUT YOU KNOW, STAFF IS STILL NOT RECOMMENDING, UH, APPROVAL AND THERE'S STILL A LOT OF THE STIPULATIONS, BUT THAT, THAT'S THE THING. IF THEY ARE SAYING THAT IT'S THE SAME ONES OR THEY HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT, SO HAVE THEY REVIEWED IT OR NOT REVIEWED IT? 'CAUSE STAFF HAS REVIEWED WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW, AND THESE ARE STILL THE, OUR STIPULATIONS AND THAT, IT'S KIND OF MY COMMENT TO ALSO LAST TIME, I THINK THERE'S SOME LIKE, MISUNDERSTANDING ON WHAT THESE STIPULATIONS REALLY MEAN. NO, THERE'S NOT MISUNDERSTANDING. THE THING IS, I'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH, YOU GUYS RECOMMENDED ME TO GO TO THE MONTE VISTA ARCHITECTURAL, UM, COMMITTEE, OR, YOU KNOW, REVIEWERS, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING SINCE APRIL. AND SO FINALLY NOW THEY'RE, THEY SAY IT'S OKAY. THEY'RE, THEY'RE OKAY WITH THE PROJECT. SO THAT'S HENCE ME APPLYING AGAIN FOR THIS FROM THE, THERE'S SOME COMMENTS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT TOO. WHAT IS YOUR TOTAL AREA OF, UH, IMPERVIOUS COVER? SO NOT ONLY CONSTRUCTION, WE'RE TALKING POOL, DRIVEWAY, PAVERS, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT. I WOULD HAVE TO, UH, CALCULATE IT, BUT I MEAN, IN REGARDS TO PER YOUR GUIDELINES, UH, WE ARE UNDER THE 50% OF, UH, THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE VERSUS [01:55:01] THE LOT COVERAGE. SO JUST THE STRUCTURE. BUT IS THAT ALSO INCLUDING, I MEAN, DRIVEWAYS CONCRETE? CORRECT. NO. OKAY. WHAT ELSE? BUT THAT'S, UH, PER CO I MEAN, YOU DON'T INCLUDE, UM, TYPICALLY YOU INCLUDE THE, WELL, YOUR FAR IS YOUR MAIN STRUCTURE AND ANY OTHER STRUCTURE ON THE, ON YOUR PROPERTY, NOT CONCRETE. UM, I GUESS WE CAN, UH, FURTHER DISCUSS THAT IN DISCUSSION. I HAVE NO MORE QUESTIONS. I GOT A QUESTION. YEAH. YES. COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, UH, THE, THE, UM, THE DESIGN, DO YOU CONSIDER THE DESIGN LIKE HOLISTIC, LIKE IT, IN TERMS OF THE INTENT OF THE DESIGNER MM-HMM. , THAT, THAT, THAT CHANGING ANYTHING CHANGES THE SPIRIT OF THE DESIGN. BECAUSE, BECAUSE THERE'S SOMETIMES THERE'S LIKE, WELL, YOU CAN CHANGE THIS AND YOU CAN CHANGE THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, IF IT WAS ME, I WOULD SAY, YEAH, BUT IF YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE GONNA BREAK MY HEART. RIGHT? WHICH MEANS THAT, AND, AND I THINK, UH, UM, GOING WITH OR, OR WORKING WITH THE MONTE ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE, WE'VE BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH AND WE'VE BEEN VERY FLEXIBLE WITH THEIR, UH, COMMENTS AND, AND REQUIREMENTS, WHICH, BUT AT THIS POINT, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, UM, IT GETS TO A POINT WHERE IT'S LIKE, WHERE'S THAT DEADLINE? WHERE, WHERE'S WHAT'S ENOUGH? YOU KNOW? AND AT THIS POINT MY CLIENT'S LIKE, OKAY, THAT THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHAT I LIKE. I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE, WE DID CHANGE THE FINISH FENESTRATIONS. IF YOU LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL ONE THAT WAS SUBMITTED BACK IN APRIL, UM, AND YOU GUYS, UH, REQUESTED A, YOU KNOW, THE TYPE OF LANDSCAPE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE WERE PROPOSING, WHICH, UH, I AM SUBMITTING AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW, IN REGARDS TO THE TWO INCH, UH, RECESSED WINDOWS. DID THAT, UM, THE, YOU KNOW, SO WE HAVE ADDRESSED, UH, THE MAJORITY OF THOSE COMMENTS, IF NOT ALL. I THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. . AND AGAIN, WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT THE HOUSE THREE STORIES OR THREE PROPERTIES OVER, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S A, IT'S A, I GUESS A SOAR, UM, TOPIC. BUT WE DO HAVE A PRECEDENT THERE. WE ALSO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, IN OUR DESIGN ARE NOT AS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, ON YOUR HISTORIC PACKET GUIDELINES, THERE'S HOMES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, MODERN SLASH YOU KNOW, NEW. SO WE CAN GO THROUGH THOSE IF NEED BE EXAMPLES. WELL, LOOKING AT THE MONTE VISTA ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE LETTER. OKAY. UH, THEY DO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM AND YOU WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THEM AS YOU MOVE FORWARD. MM-HMM. TO A FINAL. UM, BUT THEY ALSO SAY, WE DON'T DISAGREE WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. SO THAT'S KIND OF LIKE, UM, CONTRADICTORY TO WHAT THEY TOLD ME AT THAT MEETING, WHICH I HOPE I WISHED THEY, ONE OF 'EM WOULD'VE BEEN ONLINE, OR WHICH THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE, WOULD, WOULD BE. SO, UH, I'M KIND OF, AND THAT'S WHAT THE FRUSTRATION PART OF IT IS BECAUSE IT'S, WE'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH AND TRYING TO, UH, THEY TELL ME ONE THING AND THEN I DO IT. AND THEN NOW, YOU KNOW, I'M HEARING TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S WAS TOLD. AND WHICH ACTUALLY I RECORDED THAT CONVERSATION. 'CAUSE I DIDN'T WANT THIS WHOLE THING TO KIND OF GO BACK AT THIS. SO NEED BE, I, I COULD SHARE THAT, UH, MEETING WHICH WAS RECORDED AND, YOU KNOW, WHICH CONTRADICTS TO WHAT IS BEING TOLD ON THAT LETTER. AND THAT'S THE, THE FRUSTRATE, UH, FRUSTRATING PART BECAUSE, UH, I CAME HERE HOPING THAT A LOT OF THESE COMMENTS THAT WERE JUST READ OR RECOMMENDATIONS HAD BEEN ADDRESSED AND WOULDN'T, YOU KNOW, PROHIBIT US FROM GETTING A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO KIND OF GO TO THE NEXT STEP. AND, UM, HAVE THERE NO MORE QUESTIONS? I'LL DO A MOTION. I STILL HAVE A QUESTION. I'M SORRY. I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES. SO THEN STAFF, JUST REAL QUICK, HOW WOULD YOU GUYS DECONFLICT SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR ANNOTATE SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THE PACKAGE WHEN HE IS WORKING WITH THE, WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUNITY? AND THEN IF THERE IS SOME CONTRADICT, PROCEDURALLY, HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT? IT'S COMPLETELY SEPARATE. AND SO WE OBVIOUSLY ENCOURAGE APPLICANTS TO WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE THEY PARTICIPATE IN THE PUBLIC PROCESS. AND SO IT'S JUST GOOD TO HAVE THAT OPEN LINE OF COMMUNICATION, UM, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SUPPORT FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, BUT YOU ARE NOT BOUND TO ANY SPECIFIC DIRECTION FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, AND ULTIMATELY THE, THE, UM, UH, SORRY, THE BODY THAT TAKES ACTION ON YOUR CASE IS HERE AT C H D R C. AND SO THEY WILL CERTAINLY CONSIDER THE FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMUNITY, [02:00:01] UM, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S BEEN OUTREACH. UM, BUT ULTIMATELY, UH, THIS IS WHERE THE DECISION IS MADE. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THAT'S WHY I THINK I TOOK THE, WE TOOK THE NECESSARY STEPS TO ACTUALLY GET THEM INVOLVED SO WE COULD GET THEIR BACKINGS, WHICH KIND OF BACKFIRED BECAUSE THEY TOLD THE, THEY TOLD ME I WAS AT THAT MEETING, SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, SUBMITTING. SO I'VE JUST WASTED ALL THAT TIME, UM, BASICALLY FOR A, WE'RE GOING BACK TO SQUARE ONE, WHICH IS A LITTLE FRUSTRATING, YOU KNOW, TO BE, YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU. UM, DID Y'ALL HAVE QUESTIONS? I, MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. YES. I, I'M HOPING IT'S A QUICK QUESTION. UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU, YOU ARE, ARE, ARE SAYING THAT A LOT OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT ARE LISTED HERE TODAY MM-HMM. , YOU FEEL HAVE BEEN ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED. BUT CAN YOU POINT TO THOSE STIPULATIONS SPECIFICALLY THAT, THAT YOU, THAT YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR CHALLENGE AGAINST? AND MY GUESS IS WINDOWS IS, WINDOWS IS ONE OF THEM. A LOT OF THIS STUFF, I DON'T KNOW THAT WELL, THE WINDOWS, I THINK, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. GO AHEAD. JUST, NO, I SAID, UH, REGARDING THE WINDOW COMMENT, I THINK I DID, UM, WE DID ADDRESS IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHANGED ACCORDING TO RECOMMENDATIONS AND FENESTRATION. UH, WE EVEN TALKED ABOUT MAYBE MAKING 'EM A LITTLE BIT SQUARE, ALIGNING THEM TO THE BOTTOM OF THE WINDOWS ON THE FIRST FLOOR, WHICH WE DID. AND THE ONES THAT AREN'T REALLY ALIGNED, IT'S BECAUSE WE REALLY CAN'T, WITHOUT REALLY CHANGING THE WHOLE DESIGN OF THE SECOND FLOOR. UM, AND THEN WE ADDED, YOU KNOW, KNOW THE DIVIDED LIGHTS ON IT. UH, SO YEAH, WE DID. AND EVEN THE STAIRCASE, YOU KNOW, WINDOWS THAT WERE KIND OF A, UM, THE MAJOR COMMENTS, UH, WE DID ADDRESS THOSE AND MADE IT A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, I GUESS SMOOTHER OR, UM, DESIGNED TO IT. SO I, I JUST, AGAIN, UH, THAT'S ONE OF 'EM. UH, IN REGARDS TO THAT, AGAIN, LANDSCAPING EXAMPLES OF PLANTS, UM, THAT WE NEEDED TO CEMENT. WE DID THAT, UH, THE DRIVEWAY AND, AND THE, AND THE SIZING OF THE DRIVEWAY, WE DID, YOU KNOW, ADDRESS THAT. THE GARAGE DOOR, WE DID ADDRESS THAT, THE GARAGE, UH, ROOF. WE DID ADDRESS THAT. SO WE HAVE ADDRESSED A LOT OF THOSE COMMENTS. SO TO KIND OF LIKE GET THAT LIKE NEGATIVE KINDA FEEDBACK AGAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, IT ISN'T APPROVED. IT REALLY IS AGAIN, FRUSTRATING BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN WORKING TO GET THAT APPROVAL TO NOT EVEN GET A, A CONCEPTUAL, UH, APPROVAL AND MOVE TO THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIR. OKAY. COMMISSIONER GROUP. I'M, I'M ACTUALLY GONNA MOVE TO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, BUT, UM, I'M, I'M GONNA JUSTIFY THAT. SO I'LL MOVE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATION SECOND. OKAY. MORE THAN A SECOND. MM-HMM. I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE WORKED ON THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT. TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. WE LOOKED AT THAT. YOU HAVE LISTENED, WE LOOKED AT IT. I SEE THAT YOU'VE PUT SOME, I, UM, THE REASON WHY I KEPT ALL THE STIPULATIONS AND SOME OF THEM I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MORE CONCERNING FINAL, AND I THINK YOU'LL BE FINE. THE FOUR STIPULATIONS THAT I FEEL THAT SHOULD BE WORKED ON, AND I REALLY WANNA GO BACK TO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD LETTER. THEY DID NOT SAY THAT THEY'RE, YOU'RE NOT WORKING WITH THEM AND THEY'RE NOT SAYING THAT THERE'S AGREEMENT. I THINK WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE STIPULATIONS SHOULD STILL BE THERE AND THEY ARE SAYING TWO THINGS. ONE WAS, UM, THE STONE PLACEMENT ON THE BUILDING STILL SEEMS ARBITRARY TO YOUR COMMITTEE AND THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY WILLING TO, WE WERE AGREEING TO WORK ON SOME OF THE EXTERIOR MATERIALS. SO THAT'S WHY I FEEL LIKE I THINK WE'VE, WE MOVE ON WITH CONCEPTUAL AND STILL KEEP THE STIPULATIONS AND YOU STILL WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE STILL WORK TOGETHER, THEN I THINK WE MIGHT COME TO A SOLUTION. UM, SO THE STIPULATIONS THAT I FEEL HAS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED A LITTLE MORE IS 1, 2, 4, AND FIVE. ONE IS STILL THE, I REALLY WANNA SEE THE, THE HEIGHTS OF THE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES AND ALL THAT. THAT'S ON THE, ON THIS SET ALSO WAS THE HEIGHTS THERE. MM-HMM. . OKAY. IT'S ON, UH, SHEETS. UM, AND I CAN, I MEAN, OKAY. UM, I MEAN THERE MIGHT BE, I DON'T KNOW THEN WHY STAFF STILL HAS IT, IF NOT, IT'S, I SAW IT'S VERY HARD TO READ. IT'S ON SHEETS A 3.2, WHICH IS ONE OF THE, I GUESS, PREVIOUS COMMENTS AND, AND THAT WAS ADDRESSED. YEAH. SO STIMULATION TWO IS REALLY SIMPLIFYING THE MATERIALS, AND I THINK THAT'S SOME OF THE THINGS I THINK YOU'VE NOW, LIKE YOU WENT FROM LIKE COMPLETE STUCCO TO NOW ALMOST LIKE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF ROCK. SO I THINK, UM, NOW, YEAH, NO, ACTUALLY IT'S LESS ROCK NOW FROM THE ORIGINAL ONE, BUT FOR THAT SAME REASON. SO, BUT THAT'S OKAY. I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD MOVE TO SIMPLIFY. I THINK THAT STIPULATION SHOULD STAY THERE. AND THEN ON THE WINDOWS, YES, YOU HAVE WORKED, I I COULD ACCEPT SOME OF THE SQUARE WINDOWS IN THE BACK AND I [02:05:01] JUST FEEL LIKE YOU STILL HAVE A LOT OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, UH, IF YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT ONE WHERE WE CAN DO EAST AND WEST ELEVATION LEFT AND RIGHT. AND, AND IF I, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, I THINK ONE OF THE, UH, I GUESS SUGGESTIONS WAS FROM MS. VINNO, UH, LAST TIME IN REGARDS TO MAYBE CHANGING THEM TO A SQUARE, KIND OF DIVIDING 'EM INTO THAT. YEAH. I'M JUST GONNA FINISH. SO THERE'S STILL SOME WALLS THAT HAVE MISSING SOME FENESTRATION, AND THEN ON THE TOP ONE THERE'S A LOT OF FENESTRATION LIKE ALTOGETHER. SO I THINK YOU JUST HAVE ANOTHER DISCUSSION OF THOSE WINDOWS. I THINK WE'RE MOVING TOWARDS IT. THAT'S WHY I WOULD KEEP THAT STIPULATION. AND THEN ON STIPULATION FIVE, I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH ON THE DISCUSSION OF, OF THAT ONE PROPERTY IN THE CORNER, BUT ALSO JUST ON THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I REALLY STILL WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'RE INTRODUCING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S COMMONLY FOUND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S ONE CASE. BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE STILL ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND HOW THAT RELATES TO THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. OKAY. MAY I, I MAKE MR. CHAIR ONE MOMENT. LET HIM RESPOND. UH, SO IN REGARDS TO THE WINDOWS AND THE PLACEMENT OF IT, JUST TO KINDA, UH, GIVE YOU AN IDEA LIKE, UH, WE HAD MORE OF A HORIZONTAL, UH, WIN LARGER WINDOW, AND SO THAT'S WHY WE PLACED LIKE THE MOST, UH, THE INDIVIDUAL. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I THINK THIS IS NOT THE SETTING FOR US TO DESIGN IT, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT LIKE, JUST, I MEAN, THAT IS NOT THE SOLUTION I THINK THAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR. UM, AND THEN THE BLANK WALL DOWN THERE STILL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME MISS SOME WINDOWS THAT STILL COULD BE ADJUSTED, SO, OKAY. I JUST FEEL LIKE THAT, I THINK WE COULD COME TO A SOLUTION. OKAY. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, WHO, MR. CHAIR. I, I'M SECOND INTO THE MOTION. UH, ALTHOUGH I, I DO, UH, KINDA BECAUSE IT'S CONCEPTUAL, MUCH LIKE THE OTHER ONE, I, I WOULD ASK STAFF, THE APPLICANT HAS, UH, MET SOME OF THE, UM, OR, OR HAS ADJUSTED, AND APPARENTLY THERE WAS A SUBMITTAL THAT WENT TO RACHEL. RACHEL'S NOT HERE, SO WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO GO BY, BUT IT SEEMS THIS IS THAT SUBMITTAL. OKAY. SO HE'S PROVIDED IT TO RACHEL BY THE APPLICATION DEADLINE. WE REVIEWED IT AND IT'S HERE TODAY. THERE'S BEEN NO CHANGES SINCE THEN. OH, OKAY. SO THAT BEING SAID, AND PARTICULARLY WITH, UH, CONSIDERING THE DIMENSION, THE DI DIMENSION, THE DIMENSION OF THE WINDOWS, THE TWO INCH, THE ADJUSTMENTS THAT THEY MADE, UM, I JUST WANNA BE VERY, VERY CLEAR ON SUPPORTING THE MOTION THAT I DON'T WANT IT TO, TO, THAT IT'S MORE, MORE IN TERMS OF SUPPORTING THIS APPLICANT AND THE CHANCES THAT IT DOESN'T PASS BECAUSE THE WRONG THING IS SAID, HIS CON, IF WE'RE CONCEPTUAL, WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DESIGN, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT THERE'S BEEN VERY CAREFUL ADJUSTMENT OF THE WINDOW LINES. AND IT'S ALSO VERY CLEAR THAT IT'S A HOLISTIC DESIGN, THAT IT'S A MODERN DESIGN AND IT'S INTENDED TO BE ITS OWN THING. IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S STEPPING AS FAR AWAY FROM F HISTORICISM AS IT POSSIBLY CAN. THERE'S A HOUSE IN, IN ALAMO HEIGHTS THAT JOHN GRABLE DID, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO COMPARE THIS TO JOHN VARIABLE, SO DON'T GET A BIG HEAD. RIGHT. BUT, BUT IT, BUT, BUT IT IS SIMILAR IN THE SENSE THAT IT, IT IS SPEAKING ITS OWN LANGUAGE IN, IN THE CONTEXT OF A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, SO, SO I, I, I WANNA MAKE THESE COMMENTS TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THIS DESIGN. 'CAUSE I FEEL FOR, FOR THE DESIGNER, UH, SUBMITTING WHAT IS TO THIS DESIGNER A HOLISTIC DESIGN. I DO THINK THAT WE'RE OVERSTEPPING OUR BOUNDARIES UNLESS WE ARE SAYING THAT THERE ARE THESE ABSOLUTE, UH, UM, UH, NO DO, NOT DO. BUT WE'RE NOT, UH, UH, WHEN A, WHEN A BUILDING MOVES THIS FAR, UH, AWAY FROM THE NORM, THEN WE RUN THE RISK OF OUR COMMENT REALLY ENTERING INTO THEIR DESIGN AUTHORITY. SO I, I WANNA MAKE VERY CLEAR THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT I RESPECT YOUR DESIGN, BUT I'M SUPPORTING THE MOTION SO THAT YOU LEAVE HERE WITH A CONCEPTUAL 'CAUSE MY FEELING IS THAT IT'S GONNA PASS WELL, AND, AND I, AND THAT'S, I THINK JUST LIKE I HAVE BEEN DOING PREVIOUSLY WITH THE MONTE VISTA, UM, ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE. I AM HAPPY, WE ARE HAPPY TO KIND CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION, BUT IT'S LIKE WE DON'T WANT TO BE STUCK ON THIS CONCEPTUAL PART OF IT FOR ANOTHER SIX MONTHS AND KIND OF LIKE LOSE, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR ANYWAYS. UH, SO I, I, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT. AND WE'RE WILLING TO CONTINUE HAVING THAT CONVERSATION, LIKE Y'ALL SAID, IN REGARDS TO THOSE LITTLE ELEMENTS TO KIND OF MOVE, MOVE ALONG. YES. AND WE APPRECIATE THAT, MR. SANDOVAL AND WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WORKING WITH STAFF. AND, UM, I GUESS AS A SUGGESTION, AS YOU LOOK AT THESE COMMENTS [02:10:01] AND UH, SEE HOW SOME REFINEMENTS MAY HAPPEN, UH, I SUGGEST MAYBE ANOTHER D R C WITH, UH, THIS COMMISSION, UH, BEFORE YOU COME BACK FOR A FINAL. OKAY. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. AND THEN, UH, JUST A SUGGESTION. AND RIGHT BEFORE RACHEL WENT ON VACATION, I ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, SAW THE EMAIL, WHICH KIND OF BASICALLY, AND ONE OF THE NOTES WAS THE WINDOW, TWO INCH RECESS, YOU KNOW, THING. AND I CALLED HER RIGHT AWAY AND I SAID, WELL, WE, WE ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE. AND SHE GOES, WELL, YEAH, SOME OF THOSE COMMENTS ARE LIKE, THEY, THEY'RE GONNA BE ON THAT COMMENT NO MATTER WHAT. SO, WHICH IS OKAY, BUT THEN IS THAT GONNA, UH, KIND OF DO A, YOU KNOW, REVERSAL, LIKE IT'S SHOWING THAT WE HAVEN'T DONE IT, BUT WE HAVE DONE IT. SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE, UH, A CONTRADICTORY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATION ON THAT. WELL, IN MANY CASES, THESE ARE STANDARD, UH, GUIDELINES. MM-HMM. THAT STAFF LISTS, ESPECIALLY FOR THE WINDOWS. MM-HMM. AND ROOF MATERIALS AND, AND THAT SORT OF THING. AND WHEN, WHEN IT DOES COME BACK FOR FINAL MM-HMM. STAFF WILL NOTE ON THE, UH, CASE, UH, INFORMATION WHETHER THEY FEEL IT'S BEEN MET OR NOT. OKAY. YEAH. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER ? UH, YEAH, I, I WILL BE SUBMIT, UM, SUPPORTING THE MOTION, UM, TO, UM, APPROVE FOR CONCEPTUAL WITH THE STIPULATIONS. A COUPLE OF THE AREAS THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME AGAIN MM-HMM. ARE THE WINDOWS MM-HMM. AS WELL. AND THERE ARE PLACES WHERE, UM, TOO MANY WINDOWS COULD TURN INTO ONE WINDOW THAT ACTUALLY SUPPORTS THE USE OF THAT UTILITY OR BATH AREA INSIDE. OKAY. I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THAT, LOOK AT THE PLAN IN A, UH, IN A DIFFERENT WAY TO, UM, WORK IN COORDINATION WITH BETTER WINDOWS. OKAY. UH, TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S CONCERNS AS WELL AS MINE ABOUT THE MATERIALITY ON EXTERIOR. I THINK WHAT'S, WHAT'S ODD ABOUT IT IS THAT WHEN WE NORMALLY SEE A MASONRY MATERIAL, IT, IT HAS SORT OF A TRADITIONAL, UH, SYMBOLISM. AND THEN THAT IS ABOUT, IT'S ON THE MAIN PART OF THE HOUSE. IT IS PART OF THE LANGUAGE OF, OF, WHAT DO YOU SAY? STRUCTURE AND HIERARCHY. SO THE MAIN PART OF THE HOUSE WILL BE ROCK, AND THEN THE ADD-ONS WILL BE MAYBE GO TO STUCCO AND THEN WOOD, THERE'S A HIERARCHY OF MATERIALS. MM-HMM. . AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'M MISSING WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS. SO AS YOU'RE APPROACHING WHERE THE STONE GOES AND WHERE THE STUCCO GOES, THINK ABOUT THE HIERARCHY OF THE MATERIAL IN A STRUCTURAL WAY AND WHAT IT'S, UM, WHAT IT'S HIGHLIGHTING. OKAY. OR, OR PRESENTING IN THE HOUSE. AND, UM, PERHAPS, UH, Y'ALL COULD LOOK AT THAT. OKAY. FOR THE NEXT SESSION ALSO. YES, MA'AM. MM-HMM. . THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IF THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS, A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. ZUKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES. YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU COMMITTEE MAYOR FOR YOUR TIME GETTING THIS OVER THE FINISH LINE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NOW AGENDA ITEM 15. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 15 H C R C CASE 2023 DASH 3 23 20 MADISON STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING METAL ROOF WITH A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF IN CHARCOAL GRAY. STAFF. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPROVAL OF THE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF FEATURING PANELS THAT ARE 18 TO 21 INCHES WIDE. SEAMS THAT ARE ONE TO TWO INCHES HIGH AND A CRIMPED RIDGE SEAM PANEL SHOULD BE SMOOTH WITHOUT STRIATIONS OR CORRUGATION. RIDGES ARE TO FEATURE DOUBLE MUNCH OR CRIMPED RIDGE CONFIGURATION. NO VENTED ROOT RIDGE CAPS OR END CAPS ARE ALLOWED. ALL CHIMNEY, FLUTE AND RELATED EXISTING ROOF DETAILS MUST BE PRESERVED AND ON ONSITE INSPECTION MUST BE SCHEDULED WITH O H P STAFF PRIOR TO THE START OF WORK TO VERIFY THAT THE ROOFING MATERIALS MATCHES THE APPROVED SPECIFICATIONS. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL STANDING SEA METAL ROOF IN STANDARD GAL BLOOM FINISH IN A OR AN A PRE WEATHERED GAVEL FINISH TO MATCH THE PREVIOUSLY H T R C APPROVED. UM, K H T R C CASE NUMBER 2021 DASH 2 93 BASED ON FINDING B AND THREE THAT THE APPLICANT DOES NOT INSTALL FRONT FACING ROOF FENCE WHERE THEY DO NOT EXIST HISTORICALLY BASED ON FINDING B, THE APPLICANT HAS CONSENTED TO ITEMS ONE AND THREE. UM, AND THEN THE APPLICANT, MAGGIE, WILL WILLMONT IS HERE IN PERSON. GOOD AFTERNOON, I'M MAGGIE WILLM. MY HUSBAND MATTHEW IS BEHIND ME. UH, WE ARE HERE SOLELY TO SEEK APPROVAL ON THE SPECIFIC COLOR OF THE [02:15:01] CHARCOAL FINISH, UH, AS OPPOSED TO, UH, A PRE WEATHERED GLOOM OR GLOOM ROOF COLOR. UM, THE ORIGINAL SUBMISSION WAS, UH, THAT COLOR WAS SELECTED, UH, AT THE SUGGESTION OF ONE OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS DURING A CONFERENCE HEARING IN JULY OF 2021 WHEN WE APP APPLIED TO DO A MATTE BLACK ROOF. UM, THE PRE WEATHERED GAL LOOM ROOF IS THE ONE THAT WOULD BREAK MY HEART TO USE MR. VELASQUEZ'S, UH, TERMED OR PHRASE. UM, THE NON-COMPLIANCE OF THIS ROOF WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE ROOFER AND THE CONTRACTOR. AND IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE STRIDED PANELS OR, UH, THE RIDGE CAPS AND COWS WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. THOSE ALSO BREAK MY HEART. SO I'M FULLY, UH, THAT'S BEEN HANDLED WITH THE ROOFER THAT ROOF WILL BE A, WILL BE REPLACED. MY CONCERN WAS WHEN THE C OF A WAS REISSUED, UH, THAT VERBIAGE PRE WEATHERED GAL LOOM CAME BACK, UH, AFTER OUR ORIGINAL DISCUSSION THAT A DARK GRAY WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. UH, AND SO, UH, RACHEL SUGGESTED I SUBMIT A, UH, APPLICATION FOR C F A APPROVING THIS SPECIFIC COLOR. OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION. UM, AND JUST IF I CAN FURTHER CLARIFY, 'CAUSE THIS IS A LITTLE CONFUSING. UM, CLAUDIA, CAN YOU PUT THE COLOR CHART ON THE SCREEN? OKAY. SO WHAT IS, WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY RECOMMENDED IS THE, UM, STANDARD GAL LOOM, WHICH IS CIRCLED IN RED, AND THEN ALSO THE ZINC GRAY WAS DETERMINED AT THAT TIME TO BE A COMPARABLE ENOUGH COLOR TO THE GLUM TO TO BE APPROVABLE. UM, WHAT HAS BEEN INSTALLED. SO YOU HAVE THE UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE INSTALLED IS THE CHARCOAL GRAY, AND THAT IS THE COLOR THAT'S REQUESTED TODAY. SO NOW YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE PHOTOS AND YOU CAN SEE THAT COLOR CHAIRMAN, QUICK COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. YEAH. QUICK QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. SO YOU ALL WILL, UM, REROUTE THE EVENT STACK. SO THOSE GO ON THE OTHER, UH, SIDE OF THE, OF THE RIDGES AND ABSOLUTELY THEY'RE HIDEOUS, UH, 100% AND THEY, I'M JUST GLAD IT CAME IN WRITING FROM YOU 'CAUSE THAT JUST GAVE ME A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION TO, TO APPROACH. YEAH, THAT WAS A MISTAKE. UH, SO, WELL I, I THINK I MAY HAVE BEEN THE ONE THAT HAD TALKED ABOUT THE PRE WEATHER GAL LOOM AS A WAY OF SORT OF TOWING DOWN THIS SORT OF DARKNESS OF ADDING A, YOU KNOW, A JET BLACK ROOF ON TOP OF THAT. AND I APPRECIATE THAT YOU ALL WERE TRYING TO GO TOWARDS THAT DIRECTION, UH, OF, OF SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT GRAYER, YOU KNOW, EITHER THE, THE, THE DARK GRAY OR THE, THE, THE OTHER GRAY COLOR THAT WE HAVE, UH, PROPOSED THERE. SO I, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT AND I'M GLAD YOU'RE, UM, ABLE TO WORK WITH YOUR, YOUR ROOFER TO REPLACE THE S STRIDED PANELS. I THINK THAT'S A, THAT'S A GOING A A LONG WAY TOWARDS, UM, CORRECTING THE ISSUE. ARE THEY GOING TO ALSO DO THE, THE MUNCHED, UH, RIDGES AND, AND, UH, THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN, HERE ARE THE GUIDELINES, YOU DIDN'T FOLLOW THEM. OKAY, HERE ARE THE GUIDELINES KIND OF THING. AND SO IT YEAH, IT WAS, YEAH, IT WAS SOMETHING THAT NEEDED ALL THESE THINGS FELT NEEDED TO BE ADDRESS TOGETHER TO MAKE IT FEEL ABSOLUTELY MORE COMMERCIAL RATHER THAN RESIDENTIAL. AND THAT, THAT JUMPS OUT EVEN MORE THAN THE, THE COLOR AT THIS POINT. FAIR. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. YES, THOSE ARE, THOSE HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED. WE JUST DIDN'T WANNA REORDER MATERIALS BEFORE THIS. I, BEFORE I HAD IT IN WRITING, THAT GRAY WAS EQUIVALENT ENOUGH TO PRE WEATHERED GLIN COMMISSIONER FISH. UM, I CONCUR WITH, UH, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER. I, I DO THINK THE, THE BETTER COLOR IS THE LIGHTER COLOR, BUT IN THE, IN THE, IN THE SPIRIT OF COMPROMISE AND MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I APPRECIATE THAT ALL THESE CORRECTIONS ARE GONNA BE MADE AND WILL SUPPORT THE ROOF IN ITS CURRENT COLOR. THEREFORE, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS ONE AND THREE AND, UH, APPROVAL OF THE COLOR SUBMITTED. SECOND. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS? AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. ZUKA. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GRUB. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 16 HAS BEEN POSTPONED BY THE APPLICANT. UH, AGENDA ITEM 17, ITEM 17 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH 3 0 1 4 4 CLUB DRIVE 4 4 5 CLUB DRIVE. THE APPLICANT REQUESTS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING METAL. SECOND STORY BALUSTRADE WITH POSTS AND A NEW METAL BALUSTRADE IN POSTS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST TO REPLACE THE EXISTING SECOND STORY BALUSTRADE IN POSTS BASED ON FINDINGS [02:20:01] A THROUGH C WITH FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT RESTORES THE ORIGINAL CONDITIONS OR PROPOSES A REPLACEMENT PRODUCT THAT CONFORMS TO GUIDELINES, SPECIFICALLY A DESIGN COMPATIBLE WITH THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE TWO THAT THE NEW BALUSTRADE MEETS ANY U D C AND RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS. AND, UH, WE HAVE, I BELIEVE, SORRY, I BELIEVE THERE'S ONE VOICEMAIL. DOUBLE CHECK MY NOTES. YEAH, THERE'S ONE VOICEMAIL AND THEN, UH, OWNER CAROLYN THOMAS IS HERE IN PERSON. YES. THE VOICEMAIL FIRST, OR, UH, YOU CAN GO AHEAD FIRST. OKAY. UH, I'M CAROLYN THOMAS AND 18 MONTHS AGO I MOVED TO SAN ANTONIO AND BOUGHT, UM, THIS TWO STORY DUPLEX AT 4, 4 5 AND 4 4 7 CLUB DRIVE AS MY PRIMARY RESIDENCE. AND, UM, I OCCUPY, OCCUPY THE UNIT UPSTAIRS. MY SON AND MY FOUR YEAR OLD GRANDSON LIVED DOWNSTAIRS. UM, THE HOUSE HAD BEEN NEGLECTED IN MANY WAYS AND, UM, THE FOUNDATION WAS IN BAD NEED OF, OF REPAIRS AND, AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THAT I DIDN'T EXPECT. SO, BUT ANYWAY, SO, UM, WE'VE BEEN GETTING THINGS CHANGED AND, AND I HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT I HAD INCLUDED WITH THE, THE TILE APPROVAL FOR THE C O A FOR THAT. I HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT I HAD THE APPROVAL, I HAD INCLUDED THE UPSTAIRS RAILING AND THAT, AS I FIND OUT IS NOT TRUE. THE OTHER THING IS, IS THAT, UM, WHEN THE RECOMMENDATION IS, IS TO, I LIKE REPLACE THE ORIGINAL. I DON'T HAVE IT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO, TO KEEP THAT. AND IN DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I GOTTA SAY THAT, I MEAN, I'M ONLY TWO YEARS. THE HOUSE IS ONLY TWO YEARS OLDER THAN I AM. SO FOR THIS HOUSE TO HAVE A HISTORIC DESIGNATION, IT'S KIND OF LIKE, 'CAUSE IT'S A RED BRICK POST-WAR BOX, YOU KNOW, SO IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF PERSONALITY. SO WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, UM, TO DO TO, UM, MAKE IT MORE ATTRACTIVE AND ALSO TO MEET CODE, WE CAME UP WITH THE DESIGN THAT IS SOMEWHAT NEW ORLEANS. AND FROM DRIVING AROUND, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND STUFF, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF ORNAMENTAL IRON, UH, YOU KNOW, RAILINGS. WHAT I DIDN'T, AND I WAS VERY CONSCIOUS OF MAKING SURE THAT THE HEIGHT WAS TO MEET CODE. AND WHAT I AM WAS NOT AWARE OF AND IS, UM, THE CONCERN FOR ME IS TO, HOW TO FIX THIS IS THAT, UM, THERE'S THE FOUR INCH SPHERICAL CLEARANCE ISSUE, WHICH WAS EXPLAINED TO ME WHEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE, UM, CAME OVER, UM, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AND LOOKED AT IT, YOU KNOW, AND I INVITED THEM UPSTAIRS TO, TO LOOK AT IT AND, AND EVERYTHING. AND THEY SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT THIS ISSUE. AND I'M LIKE, OKAY, WELL I DON'T KNOW HOW TO, HOW TO FIX THAT WITHOUT COMPLETELY CHANGING THE DESIGN. SO I GUESS I'M KIND OF HERE ON, YEAH, I MEAN, LIKE, TELL ME WHAT I NEED TO DO BECAUSE, UM, I CAN'T COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS TO FIX SOMETHING IF I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT, WHERE I'M HEADED OR IS THE FOUR INCH, YOU KNOW, VERTICAL CLEARINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I MEAN, A UM, A SPINDLE COULD BE ADDED BETWEEN EACH ONE OF THOSE. UM, AND I TALKED TO THE COMPANY THAT I BOUGHT THE, THE DESIGN WORK FROM OUT OF DALLAS AND THEY, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THEIR CATALOG DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE, THE CLEARING OF THE LITTLE TEARDROP SHAPE THINGS. BUT WHEN I, I TOOK A, A SALZA BOW THAT WAS FOUR INCHES IN DIAMETER AND I WENT OUT THERE AND I STARTED STICKING IT AND I MEAN, THEY'RE LIKE, IT'S, IT'S OVER FOUR INCHES, NOT BY A LOT. AND I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE FOUR INCH SPHERICAL CLEARING IS ALL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE UM, I MEAN, I, I CAN'T IMAGINE A CHILD HAVING A FOUR INCH SPHERICAL HEAD AND TRYING TO, TO GO THROUGH ANYTHING LIKE THAT. UM, SO I GUESS I NEED YOU TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IS IT THAT'S WRONG WITH IT OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT I DID IT WITHOUT A C O A, WHICH I KNOW, YOU KNOW, MIA CULPA AND THE FACT THAT THAT, UM, I DON'T HAVE THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL ANYMORE. I CAN'T, I MEAN, I, I OFFERED IT ON FACEBOOK AND SOMEBODY CAME AND PICKED IT UP OFF THE CURB, SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS. AND THAT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN REDESIGNED TO BE ANYTHING, UM, COMPLIANT, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD'VE JUST COMPLETELY DESIGNED WHAT WAS THERE. UM, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE, I MEAN, Y'ALL TELL ME WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT. , WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, WE DO HAVE A VOICEMAIL AND THEN WE'LL GET QUESTIONS FROM THE [02:25:01] COMMISSION. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 17, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 3 0 1 4 4 5 CLUB DRIVE. MY NAME IS BIANCA MALDONADO, OFFERING COMMENTS ON BEHALF OF DREA GARZA, PRESIDENT OF THE MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THE NINE MEMBER M P N A BOARD OF DIRECTORS. WE THANK THE APPLICANT FOR WANTING TO IMPROVE THEIR PROPERTY AND BELIEVE THAT IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE SITUATION WHICH HAS LED US TO THIS CASE, US TO THIS CASE. WE DO NOT SUPPORT WORK BEING DONE WITHOUT A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE ORIGINAL RAILINGS AND COLUMNS ON THE SECOND FLOOR ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE FOR SALVAGE OR REUSE. WE THANK THE APPLICANT FOR WELCOMING US TO HER BALCONY AND AGREE THE BALLAST TRAYS AND COLUMNS ON THE SECOND FLOOR NEEDED TO MEET THE HD, UH, U D C REQUIREMENT FOR HEIGHT AND SPATIAL RELATIONSHIPS. AS PRESENTED, THE DESIGN WOULD NEED TO BE ALTERED TO MEET THE U D C WITH ADDITIONAL VERTICAL RAILINGS BEING ADDED TO MEET THE FOUR INCH SPACING AND SPHERE REQUIREMENTS IN THE U D C. THE ORIGINAL DESIGN WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNIFICANTLY ALTERED TO ACHIEVE THE U D C REQUIREMENTS. THEREFORE, FOR THIS CASE, WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST H D R C TO NUMBER ONE, APPROVE THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN AS SUBMITTED. AND NUMBER TWO, THAT THE NEW BALUSTRADE MEET ALL U D C AND RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODE REQUIREMENTS. WE THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERATION OF OUR COMMENTS. OKAY. JUST CURIOUS. YES. YEAH. SO THE ORIGINAL RAILING, WAS IT DETERIORATED? WAS THAT THE IMPETUS BEHIND, WELL, IT WAS RUSTING, BUT IT WAS ALSO LIKE, OH, SORRY. IT WAS, IT WAS, IT WAS RUSTING AT THE JOINTS. RIGHT. AND IT WAS ALSO LIKE SMALLER THAN MY LITTLE FINGER, SO IT WAS NOT SUBSTANTIAL AT ALL. AND IT WAS ONLY, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, THE TOTAL HEIGHT WAS LIKE 26 INCHES OFF THE GROUND, SO IT WASN'T SAFE. I WAS VERY FEARFUL FOR MY GRANDSON TO GO OUT THERE AND THE, UM, FOR FEAR THAT HE WOULD FALL OVER, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE IT WAS THAT LOW. SO, UM, I THOUGHT BY DOING WHAT I HAVE DONE, THAT I WAS MAKING SOMETHING BOTH BEAUTIFUL AND SUBSTANTIAL. AND I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FOUR INCH, YOU KNOW, CLEARING. I JUST, I MEAN, I WASN'T AWARE OF THAT AND CLEARLY THE GUY THAT DID THE WORK WASN'T AWARE OF IT OR HE IGNORED IT. BUT I MEAN, EVEN THE PIECES THAT I BOUGHT, THEY WOULDN'T MEET IT, YOU KNOW, SO THE PIECES THAT I BOUGHT HAVE WOULD HAVE TO BE MODIFIED TO NOT JUST THE SPACE IN BETWEEN, BUT THE, TO COMPLY. RIGHT. DID YOU INVESTIGATE REPAIRING THE ORIGINAL RAILING AT ALL AND THEN MODIFYING IT TO SAY, RAISE THE, THE HEIGHT? WAS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OR EXPLORATION OF THAT AS AN OPTION? UM, YES. AND IT WAS JUST LIKE WITH ALL THE CHANGES THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO MAKE IT COMPLIANT, I MEAN, IT WASN'T GONNA LOOK, IT WAS JUST GONNA BE A BUNCH OF, YOU KNOW, STICKS AND, I MEAN, IT WAS, IT WAS GONNA BE UGLY AND IT JUST, IT DIDN'T HAVE ANY, UM, CHARACTER TO IT THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, WOULD COMPLIMENT THE HOUSE OR COMPLIMENT THE ORIGINAL DESIGN AT ALL. THE REASON WHY I ASK THOSE QUESTIONS JUST TO, TO DO COMMENTARY ON THIS A BIT AND THEN TURN IT OVER TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS IS YOU, WE GENERALLY WANNA TRY TO REPAIR RATHER THAN REPLACE. AND, YOU KNOW, AND IF YOU HAVE TO REPLACE, THEN YOU'RE REPLACE IN KIND AND THIS IS KIND OF LIKE GONE TWO STEPS BEYOND THAT. RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHAT THE CONCERNS IS. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GIBBS. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. MA'AM, I HAVE A QUESTION. SO YOU, IN YOUR COMMENTS, UM, SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID STUCK OUT TO ME, AND YOU SAID THAT WHEN YOU GOT THE APPROVAL FOR THE TILE, YOU THOUGHT THAT YOU HAD APPROVAL FOR THE RAILING. WHAT GAVE YOU THAT IMPRESSION THAT YOUR, THE DE RAILINGS WOULD'VE BEEN APPROVED WHEN, UM, THAT CLEARLY WASN'T IN THE LANGUAGE? WELL, I'VE NEVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE. AND WHEN I BOUGHT THE HOUSE AND THEY SAID IT'S AN HISTORIC DIS DISTRICT, I WAS LIKE, WOO, I'M GONNA GET A PLAQUE FOR THE FRONT DOOR. SO I HAD NO CLUE AS TO WHAT WAS INVOLVED IN THE RESPONSIBILITY ASSOCIATED WITH OWNING A HISTORIC DESIGNATED HOME. SO IN TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING THE RIGHT WAY, YOU KNOW, UM, WHEN I WAS WRITING IT UP, I HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT I HAD, BECAUSE WE WERE MAKING OTHER, OTHER CHANGES AS WELL, YOU KNOW, AND I WAS GETTING, I GOT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THOSE THINGS. SO I'M, AND I REALLY THOUGHT IT WAS ALL INCLUDED IN THERE, YOU KNOW, THAT IT WAS THE TILE FOR THE FRONT PORCH, THE BALCONY AND THE RAILING. BUT WHEN I TALKED TO, UM, TO JESSICA, UM, I MEAN SHE SENT ME THE, THE C O A AGAIN, AND I LOOKED AT IT AND IT, I MEAN, IT WASN'T INCLUDED AND THAT WAS JUST THAT, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, MY MISTAKE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES. UM, MS. THOMAS, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO MEET WITH, UH, DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, UH, SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS, UH, IT'S MORE INFORMAL DISCUSSION WHERE WE COULD TALK ABOUT POSSIBLE MODIFICATIONS TO THIS RAIL? SURE. I MEAN, IDEALLY [02:30:01] I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO, BECAUSE IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE FOR ME BECAUSE I'VE BEEN OUT SO MUCH MONEY ON THINGS THAT I HADN'T PLANNED ON THAT TO BE ABLE TO MODIFY THIS, TO, TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS AS OPPOSED TO TAKING IT DOWN. 'CAUSE I'VE LOOKED AT OTHER DESIGNS AND IT'S LIKE LOOKING AT THIS CATALOG ONLINE, AND I MEAN, THERE ARE, I MEAN, I'M, YES, I CAN TAKE THESE DOWN AND FIND SOMETHING. SO CAN WE APPROVE THIS WITHOUT MEETING THE U D C? RIGHT. WE CAN, RIGHT. SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO MEET THE FOUR INCHES. IT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE. UM, SO I BELIEVE THE ISSUE IS IN THE RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODE, UM, NOT THE U D C. UM, AND YEAH, IF IT WAS APPROVED, IT WOULD COME FOR A PERMIT, THERE WOULD BE REVIEW, AND IF THERE WERE REQUIRED MODIFICATIONS AS A RESULT OF THAT PERMIT REVIEW, THEN WE COULD REVIEW THOSE AS AN AMENDMENT TO THE C O A. BUT IT IS TRICKY TO KIND OF SPECULATE WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THAT WOULD BE. 'CAUSE WE'RE NOT THE PERMIT REVIEWERS, AND SO THAT'S JUST A SEPARATE DISCIPLINE. OH, SO SHE'LL STILL HAVE TO GO GET A PERMIT EVEN IF WE APPROVE IT AS, YOU KNOW, LEGISLATION. RIGHT. IT'S, YOU GUYS ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF THE RESIDENCE RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODE. OKAY. SO IF WE APPROVE IT AS IT IS TODAY, SHE STILL WOULD HAVE TO DO THE MODIFICATIONS FOR THE FOUR INCH SPACING POSSIBLY. BUT THAT'S A LITTLE CART BEFORE THE HORSE BECAUSE THAT REVIEW HASN'T OFFICIALLY HAPPENED YET. OKAY. AND THEN I JUST HAVE ONE. I THINK IT'S LIKELY, HUH? IT'S LIKELY BASED ON HOW IT READS, BUT, AND THEN I HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION AND NOT RELATED TO THIS, BUT JUST FOR YOU, WHERE ARE THE SHUTTERS OR WERE THE ORIGINAL? OH, THE SHUTTERS THAT, THAT WE TOOK DOWN WERE PLASTIC AND THEY WERE DETERIORATING. AND SO I CAN'T AFFORD THE $2,500 FOR CUSTOM MADE WOOD SHUTTERS, SO THEREFORE THEY'RE NOT THERE YET. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I WOULD LIKE TO DO A MOTION. WELL, MR. CHAIR, I, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? COMMENT TO THE APPLICANT HERE, MA'AM? YES. IT LOOKS LIKE, LIKE WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE IT THE FOUR INCH QUESTION THAT YOU HAVE, IS THAT YOU'D NEED TWO RAILS PER IN EVERY SECTION. BECAUSE THE WAY THOSE DETAILS ARE TYPICALLY DESIGNED IS TO GO BETWEEN THE RAILS, RIGHT? SO THERE'S A SPACE BETWEEN THE DESIGNS. SO YOU WOULD, CAN YOU PULL UP A PICTURE AND, AND SHOW ME WHAT SURE. STAFF, CAN YOU PUT WHAT? YEAH, THERE. OKAY. SEE, SEE HOW YOU HAVE A GAP BETWEEN THE TWO DETAILS, MR. CHAIR, BETWEEN THE SQUIGGLIES YEAH, YOU EXCUSE ME. COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE COULD DISCUSS IN THE, OKAY, WELL, SHE, SHE ASKED. OKAY, SO, OKAY. WELL THEN I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. WELL, I REQUESTED A MOTION. I, I THINK YOU'RE BREAKING PROTOCOL, BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU. WELL, I, I'M SORRY. DID SAY EARLIER THAT I WAS GONNA DO A MOTION COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, THAT WAS THE REASON. COMMISSIONER GRU. POINT OF ORDER CHAIR THAT MR. CHAIR. I'M SORRY, MR. CHAIR, WE ARE IN QUESTION. ANSWERS BE RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS. AND SO BEFORE JUMPING INTO MOTIONS, I RECOMMEND THAT WE EXHAUST THAT PROCESS. ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? MAY I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? I WOULD LIKE TO DO A MOTION, MR. CHAIR, COMMISSIONER GROUP, A MOTION TO APPROVE AS, UH, TODAY AS THE APPLICANT HAS PRESENTED WITH, I'M GONNA ADD THE STIPULATION TO, UH, COMPLY WITH ANY RESIDENTIAL CODE PERMIT, UH, REGULATION. THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY STIPULATION. OKAY. SECOND. AND, AND JUST TO JUSTIFY, UM, AND I KNOW MR. CHAIR, YOU WERE, YOU WERE MAYBE FISHING FOR A D R C? UM, I FEEL LIKE MAYBE THE MONTICELLO NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION DID OUR WORK. UH, THEY'RE PRETTY STRICT AND THEY'VE ALREADY DONE A SITE VISIT AND APPARENTLY HAD AN, UH, MEETING WITH THE APPLICANT. SO I TOOK THOSE COMMENTS TO US TO SAY, UM, THAT I FEEL LIKE IF, UH, YOU KNOW, IF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS, AND, AND YOU KNOW, IN, IN AGREEMENT WITH WHAT'S BEING INSTALLED, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY THERE. IT'S GONE. SO WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING. BUT I DO FEEL LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO SOME MODIFICATIONS AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT'S OUR DUTY TO DESIGN THOSE MODIFICATIONS UNLESS YOU HAVE TO COME BACK JUST TO, YOU KNOW, UH, WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO BE TO DO FOR THE RESIDENTIAL CODE. SO I'M KIND OF CONFUSED. WHAT AM , WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO NOW? SO THIS, THIS DESIGN IS APPROVED, UM, YOU'RE STILL SUBJECT TO A PERMIT REVIEW WHERE THEY'RE GONNA REVIEW IT AGAINST ANY APPLICABLE CODES. IF THERE IS A CHANGE REQUIRED AS A RESULT OF THAT REVIEW, THEN WE WILL WORK WITH YOU ON ANY MODIFICATIONS TO THIS DESIGN THAT ARE NEEDED. UM, IF [02:35:01] THEY'RE MINOR, WE'LL HANDLE IT ADMINISTRATIVELY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME BACK HERE. IF IT'S A COMPLETE REWORK AND WE FEEL THAT IT NEEDS FURTHER COMMISSION REVIEW, THEN YOU MIGHT RETURN TO THIS BOARD. BUT THIS VOTE WOULD GIVE YOU THE APPROVAL TO PROCEED WITH THE NEXT STEP. OKAY. OH, THAT'S GOOD. SO, OKAY, SO THEN I'LL BE WORKING, SOMEBODY WILL, I WOULD SUBMIT SOMETHING TO MODIFY THIS TO MEET THE CODE, WHICH IS SEEM TO GET A PERMIT. THAT'S ALL, THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED A PERMIT FOR. THAT'S THE, THE STEP IN THE PROCESS THAT WOULD ADDRESS THE FOUR INCH GAP ISSUE. AND, AND, OKAY. AND COREY, JUST, JUST TO BE CLEAR, YOU SAID THAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN APPROVED, IT HASN'T BEEN APPROVED YET, BUT SHOULD IT BE APPROVED THROUGH THE VOTE IS WHAT YOU MEAN, RIGHT? CORRECT. YES. YES. MR. CHAIR. AND THEN I JUST WANNA MAKE, MAKE CLEAR THAT WHAT COMMENTS TO THE APPLICANT I THINK ARE MORE RELEVANT TO THE COMMISSION THAT, THAT WE HAVE IN OUR MINDS. THAT THERE'S POTENTIAL THAT THIS COMES BACK, UH, FROM CODE, THAT THERE'S TWO RAILS REQUIRED BECAUSE THE NATURE OF THE DETAILING IS THAT IT'S A DETAIL RAIL, A DETAIL RAIL, A DETAIL RAIL. THAT'S HOW THE WELDING IS DONE IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE. IT SEEMS THAT THE GAP THAT THE ARTISAN DID WAS KIND OF ILL-ADVISED, UH, IT WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER IF HE HAD MADE 'EM CONNECT BECAUSE NOT CONNECTING THE FOUR INCHES IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE. SO IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THE, IF THE MAKER OF THE MOTION INCLUDED THE POTENTIAL FOR THERE TO BE ONE OR TWO RAILS. THAT WAY ADMINISTRATIVELY STAFF HAS DIRECTION FROM US AND TECHNICALLY THAT THAT HAS BEEN AN ASSUMPTION FOR APPROVAL. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE THAT, THAT, UH, UM, LEMME SEE IF I CAN SUGGESTION. YEAH, SO, OKAY, LEMME JUST, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE APPLICANT ACTUALLY ALSO HAS THE OP NOT DO IT. IF THE PERMIT DOES NOT REQUIRE, THIS IS THE REASON WHY I DID NOT SAY IT. YES, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN PUT IT VAGUE ENOUGH TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, ANY ALTERATIONS THAT HAVE TO BE MADE AND, AND I DO NOT WANNA HAVE TO DESIGN HERE IF IT HAS TO BE A HORIZONTAL OR VERTICAL, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE DON'T DECIDE THAT RIGHT NOW HERE EITHER. SO ANY MINOR ADJUSTMENTS TO MITIGATE THE FOUR INCH REQUIREMENTS WILL LEAVE IT TO STAFF. SECOND CONCURS SECOND CONCUR. ANY MORE DISCUSSION? I THINK YOU CAN SAY OUTSIDE DISTRIBUTION COMEBACK TO STAFF THAT ARE CONSISTENT, THAT ARE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH DESIGN WE SEE TODAY, THEN THOSE CAN BE HANDLED BY OKAY. ARE WE GOOD WITH OUR MOTION? OKAY. ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO NAY. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA AYE. CARPENTER NAY GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. EXPLAIN IT TO ME. THANK YOU ALL. AGENDA ITEM 18. AGENDA ITEM 18, H D R C CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH THREE 19 1003, SOUTH NEW BRAUNFELS AVENUE. THE APPLICANT REQUESTS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT ARREAR DETACHED 720 SQUARE FOOT GARAGE AND A 480 SQUARE FOOT CONCRETE PAD. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A REAR DETACHED 720 SQUARE FOOT GARAGE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH F WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A FIBER CEMENT BOARD THAT FEATURES A REVEAL NO MORE THAN SIX INCHES AND A SMOOTH FINISH FINISH. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSES A SPLIT SPLIT BAY GARAGE DOOR THAT USES WOOD AS THE PRIMARY MATERIAL OR HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF WOOD. AND THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT MEETS ALL SETBACK STANDARDS AS REQUIRED BY CITY'S ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAINS A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY LETTERS OR VOICEMAILS. AND THEN THE APPLICANT, JERRY WOLF IS HERE IN PERSON. UM, AND I'LL NOTE, YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. UM, THE APPLICANT INDICATED, UH, CONSENT TO ONE AND THREE, BUT THAT, UH, ITEM TWO I THINK WAS THE, THE ISSUE, THE SPLIT BAY GARAGE DOOR. UM, THEY WOULD PREFER TO DO A, A SINGLE FULL LENGTH DOOR. I NEVER PROPOSED A A, A SPLIT VIEW. YES, WE'RE, WE'RE STIPULATING THAT IT BE A, A SPLIT BAY BECAUSE THE SINGLE ONE, THE DOUBLE WIDE DOESN'T CONFORM. I BUILT ALL MY GARAGES IN HISTORICAL WITH A, A SINGLE LARGE DOOR. I I BUILT MANY GARAGES. I INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THEM. I'M SORRY, I'M JERRY WOLF, THE, UM, BUILDER AND I'M TRYING TO BUILD A GARAGE IN THIS CUSTOMER'S BACKYARD. UM, [02:40:01] I HAVE BUILT AND GOT APPROVAL ON 16 FOOT GARAGE DOORS ON EVERY ONE OF MY, UM, H D R C APPLICATIONS. NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE WHERE IT NEEDED TO BE A SPLIT FIRST TIME. HEARD ABOUT THAT ONE AND I AM FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES OF WOULD APPEARANCE OR WOULD I DID AGREE TO THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? OKAY. I'LL JUST ASK YOU, MR. WOLF, UH, WOULD YOU AGREE TO STIPULATION TWO OR YOU DO NOT WANNA DO A SPLIT? I PRE I PREFER NOT TO. MY CUSTOMER WANTS A DOUBLE GARAGE DOOR, NOT TWO SINGLES. BUT IT WOULD STILL BE BIG ENOUGH TO FIT TWO BIG CARS, CORRECT? WELL, IT'S A EIGHT FOOT, EIGHT FOOT EACH COMPARED TO ONE WIDE. 16. I DON'T AGREE. I I'VE NEVER BEEN ASKED TO DO THAT BEFORE AND I'VE GOTTEN MANY OF, UM, H D R C APPROVALS. I FEEL COMPELLED TO NOTE THAT THE APPLICANT WAS JUST HERE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WITH 2030 WEST MULBERRY AND, UH, STAFF STIPULATED A SPLIT BAY GARAGE AND IT WAS, UH, APPROVED BY H D R C. OKAY, ONE MORE QUESTION, MR. CHAIR, IF I MAY? YES. COMMISSIONER RUB. AND THIS WOULD BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, CORRECT? IF I'M LOOKING AT IT, IT'S NOT A CORNER PROPERTY. IS IT A CORNER? YOU CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE STREET. THERE'S A FENCE AND THE DRIVEWAY WILL LIKE END INTO LIKE ONE SIDE OF THE GARAGE? YES. YES. THE DRIVE, THERE'S NO LIKE FENCE OR ANYTHING LIKE THE DRIVEWAY? NO, THERE'S A FENCE. THERE'S A FENCE AT THE HOUSE. I DON'T HAVE A PICTURE OF IT. YEAH, THERE'S A FENCE AT THE STREET. OH, BUT THERE'S NOT LIKE THE DRIVEWAY WILL GO STRAIGHT INTO IT. NO, NO, NO, IT'S IN THE BACK. IT'S ON THE REVERSE SIDE. THE ENTRANCE IS GONNA BE TOP RIGHT CORNER. THERE'S A TOP LEFT. SO YOU RIGHT TOP LEFT, RIGHT THERE. THAT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE THE ENTRANCE TO THE GARAGE. THERE'S AN EXISTING CURB CUT THERE. YES. RATHER THAN INSTALLING A DRIVEWAY, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A, A SORT OF PARKING PAD IN FRONT OF THE GARAGE. THAT DOESN'T EXTEND TO THE RIGHT OF WAY. ACTUALLY A APRON A QUESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE ONE QUESTION. YES. COMMISSIONER FISHER. I BELIEVE I SAW WHAT IT, WHAT IT WAS IN THERE, BUT CAN YOU TELL ME THE WIDTH OF THE, THE GARAGE DOOR OPENING THAT YOU ARE REQUESTING? 16 FOOT. 16 FOOT. SO IF IT WERE TO ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY BE SPLIT, YOU'D, THERE'D BE A SEAM AND YOU'D NEED A MINIMUM OF EIGHT OR NINE FOR, FOR A SINGLE BAY. SO THIS IS A PRETTY NARROW DOUBLE BAY COMPARED TO SOME OF THOSE 24, 20, 22, 26 FEET, LARGE BAYS. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT OBSERVATION. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS? I'M GONNA MAKE A MO IF THERE ARE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. WOULD THAT INCLUDE STAFF STIPULATIONS THAT HE HAS AGREED TO? YES SIR. YES SIR. ONE AND THREE. ONE AND THREE SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER SAVINO? YEAH, MR. CHAIR. I DO HAVE QUESTIONS SIMPLY BECAUSE BASED ON WHAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED, I FEEL LIKE I NEED TO GO TO THE SITE TO SEE WHAT THE STREET CONDITION IS, WHAT THE DRIVEWAY CONDITION IS. WHAT THE FENCE IS. BECAUSE BASED ON THE DRAWING HERE, IT'S TELLING ME THAT IT WOULD BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. YES, I KNOW WE DO. I KNOW WE DO A NUMBER OF, UH, OR ON OCCASION WE DO SINGLE, UH, VERY WIDE GARAGE DOORS. UM, BUT THEY'RE HIDDEN. VERY WELL HIDDEN. THIS IS VISIBLE FROM THE STREET AND BASED THIS ONE IS ON THE DIMENSIONS OF THE BUILDING THAT YOU'RE SHOWING. UM, I FEEL LIKE THE GUIDELINES WOULD APPLY TO THIS PARTICULAR GARAGE. UM, SO MY COMMENTS ARE THAT, UM, I WOULD ALMOST PREFER TO SEE, UM, A BETTER PACKAGE SHOWING THE ACTUAL SITE AND, UM, AN ELE UH, NO WE HAVE AN ELEVATION, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE ACTUAL SITE. THANK YOU. THERE. COMMENTS RIGHT THERE. CAN I'S RIGHT THERE. I ASK THE MOTION MAKER. CAN WE KEEP THE MATERIAL TYPE THAT WAS SUGGESTED BY STAFF, WHICH IS THE WOOD OR CAN WE KEEP THAT IN THE MOTION? IT, IT IS, IT IS. THE ONLY ONE THAT'S NOT IS THE WIDTH OF THE IS IS TO ACCEPT HIS, HIS WIDTH AT NUMBER TWO. SO STIPULATION TWO, UH, ONE AND THREE ARE IES THE MATERIAL. SO THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF WE CAN ADD THE MATERIAL THAT'S IN STIPULATION [02:45:01] TWO. 'CAUSE YOU WERE REMOVING STIPULATION TWO FOR THE SPLIT BAPE, BUT I WOULD LIKE IF YOU COULD PLEASE YES, YES. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GRU. UH, AND HE HAD AGREED TO THE NON-WOOD, UH, SIDE OF THE FIBER BOARD. SO, UH, UM, STAFF OF YOU MAKE NOTE IN THE MOTION THAT MY INTENTION IS TO KEEP THE, UH, FIBERBOARD AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF. I WANNA CLARIFY, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GARAGE DOOR MATERIAL IN STIPULATION TWO. OH, OKAY. YES, I AGREE TO THAT. YEAH. YES. AND HE'S AGREEING TO IT. YES. THANK YOU. SO WE'RE CLEAR WE KEEPING THAT IN THE MOTION? YES. KEEPING THE STAFF RECOMMENDED MATERIAL, UH, MATERIAL, UH, TEXTURE IN THE MOTION, ADDING IT OR KEEPING IT SECOND STANCE. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. I HAVE A ROLL CALL, UH, COMMISSIONER SABINO FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT, NOW THAT WE HAVE THE GOOGLE VIEW HERE TO LOOK AT, UM, I WOULD STILL ENDORSE TWO DOORS BECAUSE IT IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I JUST HAVE ONE COMMENT. I KNOW THIS IS A LOT ABOUT A, A LOT ABOUT A DOOR, BUT I, I THINK THE, THE, THE LIMITATION OF 16 FEET IS VERY IMPORTANT IN MY MIND FOR THIS TO BE CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE, A, A, A WIDER PROPOSAL, 1820 FEET. I THINK THIS BECOMES A SITUATION WHERE I WOULD NO LONGER SUPPORT THE PROPOSAL AND I WOULD SUPPORT STAFF'S, UH, AGREEMENT. SO I, I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS ADEQUATELY PRESENTED IN THE MOTION. I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR. THANK YOU. THERE'S NO OTHER COMMENTS. UH, ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO. NAY. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER, NAY GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGENDA ITEM 19. YES. OH, GOOD JOB. ITEM 19 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH 3 0 8 11 15 WYOMING STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ADD A DORMER TO THE ROOF ON THE PRIMARY ELEVATION. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST TO ADD A DORMER TO THE ROOF WITH ON THE PRIMARY ELEVATION BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE DORMER IS CENTERED ON THE ROOF STACKED VERTICALLY ABOVE THE DOOR. AND TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITS WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS AND CUT SHEETS FOR THE THREE WINDOWS PROPOSED FOR, FOR THE DORMER, SHOWING THAT THEY CONFORM TO STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS IN NEW CONSTRUCTION. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY LETTERS OR VOICEMAILS. UM, THE APPLICANT, ROBERT RADO AND THE OWNER KATE RUCKMAN, ARE HERE IN PERSON. HI, I AM KATE RUCKMAN. I'M THE OWNER OF THE HOUSE. I CURRENTLY LIVE AT 3 27 SIMON STREET IN THE LONE STAR NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU MAY REMEMBER THIS HOUSE, UH, YOU HELPED SAVE IT A COUPLE YEARS AGO FROM A PREVIOUS OWNER WHO WANTED TO DEMOLISH IT AND, UH, WITH YOUR HELP IT WAS LANDMARKED AND I'M REALLY GLAD THAT HAPPENED. THE NEXT OWNER, UM, INTENDED TO RESTORE IT. I THINK AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT HE SAID, BUT HE ONLY GOT AS FAR AS REMOVING THE ROOF AND THEN WASN'T ABLE TO CONTINUE. SO IT HAS SAT WITHOUT A ROOF ON IT FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS, AND THEN I BOUGHT IT FROM HIM IN JUNE. AND WITHOUT THE ROOFING ON, YOU CAN SEE THE GRID KIND OF STRUCTURE, UH, THAT WAS, UH, BUILT TO HOLD THE ORIGINAL WOOD SHINGLE ROOF. AND WE NOTICED RIGHT AWAY THAT THERE'S A SORT OF A HOLE OVER TO THE RIGHT, UH, WITH FRAMEWORK AROUND IT. AND, UM, SO THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE. THE QUESTION IS WHAT, AND AT FIRST I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE, MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CHIMNEY BECAUSE I FOUND A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE, UH, FROM I THINK 1905 THAT MENTIONED A TORNADO THAT CAME THROUGH SAN ANTONIO AND DID KIND OF MINOR DAMAGE TO MANY HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND IT LISTED THE GRUMBLES HOUSE, UH, ON WYOMING STREET AND THAT, UH, CHIMNEY HAD BEEN BLOWN OFF. AND SO I WANTED TO RECREATE THE CHIMNEY IF THAT WAS THE CASE. BUT AFTER WE GOT INSIDE THE HOUSE AND GOT A BETTER LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN, UM, WE REALIZED THAT THAT HOLE IS RIGHT ABOVE THE [02:50:01] MIDDLE OF A ROOM OF A BEDROOM. SO IT DIDN'T SEEM TO MAKE SENSE THAT IT WAS A CHIMNEY AFTER ALL. AND WE CAME TO THE BELIEF THAT IT WAS PROBABLY A DORMER. WE DON'T HAVE ANY EARLY HISTORIC PHOTOS, SO I DUNNO EXACTLY WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE. SO THE NEXT BEST THING WAS, UH, WE DROVE AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. ROBERT ACTUALLY DID THAT. MY CONTRACTOR, HE'LL TALK AFTER ME AND TOOK PICTURES OF MANY HOUSES FROM THAT ERA, UH, WITH DORMERS, AND I PICKED THE ONE THAT I LIKED THE BEST. AND NOW WE'RE PROPOSING TO BUILD THAT OVER THE HOLE WHERE WE THINK THERE USED TO BE A DORMER. UM, STAFF HAS SUGGESTED THAT IF WE DO BUILD A DORMER, IT SHOULD BE INSTEAD OF IN THAT LOCATION, SHOULD BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOF PLANE CENTERED ABOVE THE DOOR. AND I DO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY OF HOUSES HAVE. THEY, THEY DO HAVE THE DORMERS IN THE CENTER OF THE ROOF, PLANE CENTERED OVER THE DOOR, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM. I FOUND SEVERAL EXAMPLES JUST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ALSO IN OTHER HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE KING WILLIAM THAT HAD OFFSET DORMERS. AND SO I'VE INCLUDED SOME PICTURES OF THOSE. AND SO I THINK THEY, IF YOU'RE ABLE TO APPROVE ADDING A NEW DORMER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOF WHERE WE KNOW THERE NEVER WAS ONE THAT YOU SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO APPROVE ADDING ONE IN THE OFFSET LOCATION. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING YOU TO APPROVE. I, I AGREE TO THE OTHER STIPULATION ABOUT THE, THE WINDOW, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT IN THIS OFFSET LOCATION. AND I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE MY CONTRACTOR, ROBERT ALVARADO. WE'VE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER FOR ABOUT 17 YEARS, RESTORING MANY HOUSES IN MOSTLY LONE STAR, BUT ALSO LAVACCA AND KING WILLIAM. THIS IS OUR FIRST ONE ON THE EAST SIDE AND WE'RE BOTH VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT. SO HERE'S ROBERT. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. ROBERT ALVARADO. I LIVE AT 4 0 1 GROVE IN SAN ANTONIO IN, UH, ROOSEVELT PARK NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, WE'VE STABILIZED THE HOUSE AND, UM, WE DID, AS KATE MENTIONED EARLIER, WE DID NOTICE THAT WAS THE HOLE AND THAT WAS, UH, WHERE WE FIGURE PERHAPS A DORMER WOULD'VE BEEN. UH, THE REASON WE CHOSE THIS SHAPE WAS FOR A COUPLE OTHER REASONS. ALSO, YOU COULD SEE ON THE FRAMING ON THE BOTTOM PART THAT IT WAS MORE THAN JUST A SQUARE AT THE BOTTOM. SO WE, IT'S MOST LIKELY THIS OCTAGONAL OR HEXAGONAL SHAPE, WHICH, UH, WE FOUND SIX HOUSES IN A THREE BLOCK RADIUS THAT HAD THAT DORMER. ONLY ONE WAS NOT IN THE CENTER THOUGH. UH, BUT WE HAVE FOUND OTHER HOUSES WHERE THE DORMER IS OFF CENTER FROM THE ROOF STRUCTURE. UH, WE, WE'VE, UH, KATE'S ASKED TO DO THIS JUST FOR THE, UH, SHEER HISTORIC, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, RESTORATION OF THIS HOUSE. UM, THE STIPULATION ON THE WINDOWS IS FINE. WE MAKE OUR OWN WINDOWS AND WE WILL MEET ALL THE CODES OF THE TWO INCH, UH, SETBACK AND IT'LL BE A DOUBLE LONG WINDOW. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES, WITH RELATION TO THAT ROOM, THAT THAT HOLE, IS THAT, WHERE WOULD THE DORM ROOM FIT AS YOU'RE INSIDE IN THAT ROOM? WHERE WOULD IT BE IN THE ROOM? IS IT IN THE CENTER? IS IT LOCATED IN A PLACE THAT MAKES SENSE FOR A DORMER TO BE? IF YOU'RE INSIDE THE HOUSE, IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT THAT DORMER. THERE'S SOME FRAMING THAT GOES ACROSS. IT WAS EVER A LIGHT OR A WINDOW FOR A SPACE, AND THERE WAS THAT HOUSE NEVER HAD A SECOND FLOOR. WE ARE PROPOSING TO ADD A SECOND FLOOR TO PUT A ROOM UP THERE, AND THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO HAVE LIGHT NOW INTO THAT ROOM. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I'M SORRY. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION. S FOR STAFF. UM, CONSIDERING THE EVIDENCE ON THE ROOF, WHY IS THIS BEING CONSIDERED AN ADDITION VERSUS A RECONSTRUCTION? UM, STAFF DOESN'T FIND THE EVIDENCE COMPELLING ENOUGH TO CONFIRM THAT THAT WAS A DORMER. UM, THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE, THE AGE OF THE HOUSE, TYPICALLY WE SEE DORMERS LIKE THIS CENTERED OVER SOME KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE AND TO HAVE IT OVER CENTERED OVER NOTHING ON THE HOUSE, UH, IT'S JUST NOT IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE STYLE OF THE HOUSE. UM, WE'VE HAD OTHER CASES WHERE WE'VE APPROVED THE ADDITION OF DORMERS WHERE WE KNOW THERE WASN'T ONE BEFORE. UM, TYPICALLY CENTERED OVER AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE LIKE A FRONT DOOR. BUT IN THIS CASE WE, WE DIDN'T FIND THE EVIDENCE COMPELLING ENOUGH TO CONFIRM THAT THAT WAS AN HISTORIC LOCATION. OKAY. SO IF THERE ARE, IF THERE IS AN EXAMPLE NOT SET OVER THE DOOR, DID YOU SAY THAT THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE NOT CENTERED OVER THE DOOR? YES, WE SUBMITTED ANOTHER FOUR OR FIVE HOUSES THAT WE FOUND WHERE THE, IT WAS NOT IN THE CENTER. I THINK THE, THE OKAY. PHOTOS HAVE SHOWN A FEW OF THEM. SO HOW DOES THAT, HOW DOES THAT BEAR OUT TO THE STYLISTIC, UH, CONVENTIONS? AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS [02:55:01] IS NOT A COMMON CONVENTION AMONG, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT BOTH EVIDENCE ON THE HOUSE NOT BEING COMPELLING, UM, AS EVIDENCE THAT THERE WAS A DORMER THERE. UM, AND THEN ALSO THAT THE OVERWHELMING THE, THE DOMINANT PATTERN IS TO HAVE THESE DORMERS OVER SOME KIND OF ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT. OKAY. ANY SPECULATION ON WHAT COULD'VE BEEN HERE THAT REQUIRED THE EXTRA FRAMING? I WOULD LIKE MORE EVIDENCE OF THE EXTRA FRAMING. I'M SORRY, WHAT I, CAN YOU SPECIFY WHICH FRAMING YOU'RE SPEAKING OF? UH, THE CONTINUE? WELL, WE CAN TELL THAT THE PURLINS ARE CONTINUING OVER FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER OF THE OPENING AND THERE'S THE, UM, INFILL BETWEEN THE PURLINS ON THE ROOF THAT MIGHT, UH, RECOLLECT SOME KIND OF FEATURE THERE. WHAT WOULD THAT FEATURE BE? STAFF DOESN'T KNOW. OUR BEST WORKING THEORY IS THAT IT WAS, UH, A PATCH ON THE ROOF THAT THERE WAS DAMAGE TO THE ROOF AND THIS IS HOW THAT WAS RECTIFIED. MR. CHAIRMAN. REALLY? YES. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. YEAH. I WOULD LIKE TO FIRST OF ALL COMMEND YOU ALL FOR YOUR, YOUR BRAVERY IN TAKING THIS ON AND, UM, REALLY WANT TO SEE YOU, UH, SUCCEED WITH THIS GREAT CHALLENGE. AS I RECALL THIS, THIS HOME WAS THE, UH, THE HOME FOR THE, UH, LOCAL CHAPTER HEAD FOR THE N W C C C P. YEAH. UM, AND SO IT'S, IT IS, YOU KNOW, TREMENDOUSLY SIGNIFICANT FROM THAT STANDPOINT, FROM THAT ASSOCIATION, BUT IT'S ALSO ARCHITECTURALLY VERY INTERESTING. I HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH. WHEN I LOOK AT THE FRAMING OF THIS, OF THE WHOLE, IF WE COULD GO TO THAT IMAGE, UM, THERE APPEARS TO BE A CONTINUOUS RAFTER THAT WOULD GO UP RIGHT IN, IN THE MIDDLE OF WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE A A A DORMER IF THE PROPOSED DORMER THAT YOU'RE HAVING THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU'RE SPECULATING THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THERE, BUT THE WIDTH OF THE DORMER THAT YOU'RE CREATING, IT GOES ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE EDGE, THE RIGHT EDGE OF THAT OPENING. CORRECT. IS THAT KIND OF THE EXTENT OF THE FRAMING? YEAH, AND THAT'S CORRECT. AND WHAT WE'VE, WE'VE RESTORED A MORE THAN ONE HOUSE THAT HAD DORMERS THAT WERE JUST IN THE ATTIC AND SOME OF 'EM WERE JUST VENTS. AND THAT CENTER FRAMING THAT WAS THE RAFTER REMAINED. SO IT, IT REMAINED CONTINUOUS IN WHAT YOU SAW IN THOSE OTHER CASES WHERE THEY THEY BROUGHT IT IN MORE. OKAY. BECAUSE WHAT I'VE TYPICALLY SEEN IS WHERE THAT IT'S, IT GETS HEADED OUT ALL THE WAY AROUND THAT AND THEN YOU DON'T GET THE RAFTER, UH, INTERSECTING THROUGH THE OPENING OF THE, WE HAVE THAT ON, ON HOUSES WHERE THEY'RE USING THE SECOND FLOOR OR WHERE THAT DORMER OPENS UP TO THE GROUND FLOOR. THAT'S, THAT THAT IS THE CASE. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONER FISH? I JUST HAVE A QUESTION IF WE CAN PUT THE PRINCIPAL ELEVATION ON THE SCREEN. I MEAN, IT, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT IF THE, THE OPENING THAT WE SEE IN THE PHOTO IS PROPERLY REPRESENTED HERE IN THE PLACE OF THE DORMER, THAT THAT'S GONNA BE CENTERED ON THE FACE OF THE BUILDING THAT HOLDS THE FRONT DOOR. IS THAT MY READ ON THAT OR IS IT MORE IRREGULAR THAN IT APPEARS? I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY TRUE. THE, THE DOOR THAT'S OVER ON THE RIGHT IS STEP BACK. THERE'S A WRAPAROUND FOR IT. YEAH. SO THAT WOULD BE THE CENTER OF THE SECOND STEP BACK, WHICH HOLDS THE FRONT DOOR. I MEAN, I, I I MEAN THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT CENTERING. I SEE A CENTERING ACROSS A PROMINENT PLANE, BUT IT'S NOT HIGHLIGHTED IN THE DRAWING. SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK THE QUESTION. WE BASED THE DRAWINGS ON THE DIMENSIONS OF, UH, WHAT WAS, WHAT WE FOUND. THERE'S A LATER PHOTO THAT WE TOOK. THE, THE FIRST PHOTO THERE YOU'RE SHOWING WITH THE PLASTIC ON IS WHEN KATE PURCHASED THE HOUSE BEFORE WE GOT ANY PERMISSION TO DO ANYTHING. WE'VE SINCE REMOVED ALL THE MATERIAL AND WE'VE STABILIZED THE HOUSE. WE'VE GOT PUT A NEW FOUNDATION ADDED 64 NEW PEERS, UM, AND WE'RE SQUARING IT OFF RIGHT NOW AND WE'RE GETTING READY TO PUT THE ROOF ON PROBABLY IN A MONTH. RIGHT. THANK YOU VELAZQUEZ. MR. CHAIR'S GONNA MAKE A MOTION. I'LL DEFER TO MR. COMMISSIONER ENO'S COMMENTS I HAVE, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. I'LL DEFER TO YOU, COMMISSIONER. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE A MOTION? OKAY. COMMISSIONER SINO, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO MOTION THAT WE, UH, SUPPORT THE REQUEST, UH, WITH THE DORMER AS REQUESTED AND WITH STAFF STIPULATION OF NUMBER TWO REGARDING THE WINDOWS SECOND MOTION IS SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION I HAVE SO YOU MR. CHAIR? OH YEAH, GO AHEAD. PERMISSION. UM, I, I I FEEL LIKE, UM, VARIETY OF VICTORIAN HOUSES THAT WENT UP PRETTY QUICKLY OVER ON THE EAST SIDE WERE BUILT BY INDIVIDUALS AND VARIOUS BUILDERS AND THERE'S A HIGH LEVEL OF OF VARIETY AND, UM, WE DON'T KNOW. WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY. THERE WAS SOMETHING HERE BASED ON THE WAY IT'S, IT'S FRAMED DOWN. I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE FRAMING. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER FISH FOR POINTING OUT, UM, UM, WHERE THAT LOCATION IS IN A LARGER [03:00:01] STRUCTURE. UM, BUT FIRST OF ALL, I'M JUST TICKLED THAT WE HAVE SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO SAVE THIS VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT STRUCTURE IN OUR COMMUNITY. THE GRUMBLES HOUSE, UH, DESERVED TO BE SAVED AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU CAUGHT IT. THANK YOU. OTHER COMMENTS? COMMISSIONER GIBBS? THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. UM, I ALSO LIKE TO APPLAUD YOU ON THE WORK FOR THIS HOUSE. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH, UM, MR. JA GRUMBLES 'CAUSE I'M, I'M A MEMBER, A LIFE MEMBER OF THE NAACP, SO HIM BEING ONE OF OUR, I MEAN BEING A FIRST PRESIDENT, UM, OF THE SAN ANTONIO BRANCH IS SOMETHING TO BE APPLAUDED AND ALSO FAMILIAR WITH THE PERSON WHO BOUGHT THE HOUSE BEFORE YOU. SO I KNOW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO DO, BUT I'M GLAD YOU HAD THE HOME. SO, UM, JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I'M GOING TO BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION AND, UM, THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE HERE. I, I'D JUST LIKE TO ADD ONE THING AND IT'S, UH, SOMETHING I HEARD EARLIER ABOUT THE DUPLEX ON WILMINGTON, BUT THE WORD IMPOSSIBLE DOESN'T COME INTO PLAY. JUST LETTING IT KNOW. THANK YOU. MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. GIBBS. AYE FISH? AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES AND KUDOS TO YOU FOR TAKING THIS ON. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 20. MY NAME IS LISA Z. ITEM 20 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH 3 12 5 0 9. KING WILLIAM, THE APPLICANT REQUEST A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL. TWO. ONE. DISMANTLE AND SALVAGE THE EXISTING WOOD FENCE ALONG KING WILLIAMS STREET AND CONSTRUCT A NEW FENCE WITH STEEL POSTS WITH WOOD CAPS, STEEL AND WOOD RAILS AND WOOD PICKETS TO MATCH THE DESIGN OF THE EXISTING FENCE. TWO. REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD AND METAL FENCE ALONG EAST JOHNSON STREET WITH A NEW FENCE WITH STEEL POSTS AND WOOD CAPS, STEEL AND WOOD RAILS AND WOOD PICKETS TO MATCH THE DESIGN OF THE EXISTING FENCE ALONG KING WILLIAMS STREET. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE AND TWO BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THE DEFENSE POSTS BE FULLY WOOD OR WOOD CLAD AND MATCH THE EXISTING POST DIMENSIONS. AND TWO, THAT IF ANY WOOD MEMBERS SALVAGE FROM THE EXISTING FENCE ARE DETERIORATED BEYOND USE ANY REPLACEMENT LUMBER MATCHES THE EXISTING AND MATERIAL PROFILE AND DIMENSION. UM, WE HAVE ONE LETTER ON FILE, ONE VOICEMAIL AND THE APPLICANT DANIEL CRUZ, IS HERE IN PERSON. HI GUYS. UH, DANIEL CRUZ. UH, BEEN HERE BEFORE, I THINK IT WAS THE LAST HEARING OR THE ONE BEFORE. UM, SO WE CHANGED OUR DESIGN A LITTLE BIT HERE. UH, WE KIND OF INCORPORATE A LITTLE BIT MORE. UH, WE REDUCED THE OVERALL STEEL CONCEPT AND KIND OF DID A HYBRID VERSION, IF YOU WILL. UM, JUST TO ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE RIGIDITY TO THE EXISTING FENCE. UH, OUR, OUR GOAL HERE IS TO REESTABLISH THIS FENCE SO THAT IT COULD LAST AND STAY FOR ANOTHER A HUNDRED YEARS. UM, AS STATED BEFORE, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY DID KEEP UP WITH IT, HOWEVER, THEY ENDED UP DOING MORE DAMAGE TO THE FENCE, UH, RATHER THAN RESTORING IT IN OUR OPINION. UM, A LOT OF THE CONNECTIONS, THE JOINTS THEY PUT IN, UH, JUST CAUSED AREAS FOR WATER TO KIND OF SIT AND ERODE THE FENCE OVER TIME. UM, SO IN THE END WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST REQUESTING TO, UM, KIND OF DO A HYBRID BETWEEN THE STEEL AND WOOD AND, UH, WE'RE NOT IN OPPOSITION TO CLADDING OUR STEEL POSTS WITH WOOD TO MATCH THE DIMENSIONS. SO WE WOULD SAY THAT WE WOULD ABIDE BY THE STIPULATIONS, UM, THAT ARE REQUESTED BY H T R C. ANY QUESTIONS? WE DO HAVE A VOICEMAIL. MY NAME IS LISA LIN, CALLING FROM THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ON BEHALF OF THE ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THIS IS REGARDING 5 0 9 KING WILLIAMS STREET. CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 DASH 3 1 2. DEAR COMMISSIONERS, THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEWED THE APPLICATION WITH THE O H P STAFF CITING RELEVANT HISTORIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS. THE EXISTING FRONT YARD WOOD FENCE ALONG KING WILLIAMS STREET DATING BACK TO BEFORE 1927 IS IN REMARKABLY GOOD CONDITION. WE CONCUR WITH THE O H P RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL WITH STIPULATIONS THAT THE REPAIRS AND NEW FENCE UTILIZE IN-KIND MATERIALS TO MATCH THE HISTORIC FENCE. THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. I'LL DO A MOTION. UM, MR. OKAY, MR. CHAIR, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. I JUST HAVE A QUESTION JUST TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO STAFF STIPULATIONS. [03:05:02] WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S TWO, THERE'S TWO OPTIONS WITHIN THAT FIRST STAFF STIPULATION. SO LET'S BREAK, LET'S BREAK THAT DOWN SO WE MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE CORRECT, I THINK WE ARE, BUT WE MIGHT NOT BE. I DON'T WANT TO, WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE WOOD POSTS. WE WERE WILLING TO REDUCE OUR STEEL POSTS DOWN TO A MAYBE A FOUR BY FOUR OR FIVE BY FIVE AND CLAD IT WITH A WOOD TO MATCH THE, AND TO BE AND TO BE CLEAR, STIPULATION ONE IS THAT THE FENCE POSTS BE FULLY WOOD OR WOOD CLAD, WHICH WOULD MEAN A STEEL POST CLAD AND WOOD. CORRECT. SO THAT'S ACCEPTABLE. THAT'S ACCEPTABLE. OKAY. I THINK WE ARE THE SAME PLACE. GO. GO AHEAD COMMISSIONER GRO. I'M SORRY. I MEAN I THOUGHT I UNDERSTOOD THAT, BUT THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. I MEAN, I, I WAS GONNA MOVE TO APPROVE WITH, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS SINCE YOU AGREED TO THE STIPULATIONS. SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? YES, MR. CHAIR. QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT, UM, WHERE YOU'RE REPAIRING THE WOOD, YOU'RE KEEPING THE WOOD OBVIOUSLY WHERE YOU ARE REPLACING THE WOOD, WHAT IS THE SPECIES YOU'LL BE USING? UH, WE WERE THINKING OF UH, OR MAHOGANY. OKAY. SOMETHING LONG TERM. SORRY. EXACTLY. OKAY, GREAT. YEAH, THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? AYE FISH? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND WE THANK THE, UH, APPLICANT AND YOURSELF FOR REVISITING THIS AND UH, OF COURSE KEEPING WHAT WE COULD WE'LL BE BACK FOR MORE, SO. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANKS GUYS. AGENDA ITEM 21. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 21 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH 24 4 3 28 MADISON STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD FRONT PORCH DECKING WITH COMPOSITE P V C DECKING. TWO, REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD SHAKE SHINGLE ROOF ON THE FRONT PORCH OF AN ARCHITECTURAL OR WITH AN ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLE ROOF. THREE, DEMOLISH THE REAR DECK AND CONSTRUCT A NEW REAR COVERED PORCH WITH AN ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLE ROOF COMPOSITE P V C DECKING IN A NEW COLUMN THAT REPLICATES THE HISTORIC COLUMN AT THE REAR. FOUR, MODIFY THE EXISTING FENESTRATION PATTERN AT THE REAL REAR FACADE. FIVE. INSTALL A NEW REAR DRIVEWAY AND HARDSCAPING FEATURES SIX. REPAIR THE EXISTING FENCE AND GATES. SEVEN, MODIFY THE FENESTRATION PATTERN OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURES NORTH FACADE. AND EIGHT, MODIFY THE DETACHED ACCESSORY BY DEMO. DEMOLISHING A NON-ORIGINAL C M U PORTION AND INSTALLING NEW DOUBLE GARAGE DOOR WINDOWS, UH, SIDING AND SLIDING DOOR OR SIDING AND SLIDING DOORS AND ROOF FORM. STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF ITEMS TWO THROUGH SEVEN BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH I WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANTS CONSTRUCT THE REAR PORCH WITH THE ROOF AND DECK THAT MATCHES THE FRONT PORCH. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT MEASURED ELEVATION DRAWINGS FOR THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE FOR FINAL APPROVAL. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL TRADITIONAL ONE OVER ONE WINDOWS RATHER THAN THE PROPOSED FIXED WINDOWS ON THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. FOUR THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL A FULLY WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW THAT MEETS STAFF STANDARDS. WINDOW STIPULATIONS AND SUBMITS UPDATED SPECIFICATIONS TO STAFFER FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. THE WINDOW SHOULD FEATURE AN INSTEAD OF TWO INCHES WITH, UH, WITHIN FACADES AND SHOULD FEATURE PROFILES THAT ARE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY, MEANING RAILS MUST SEE NO TALLER THAN ONE AND A QUARTER INCHES AND STILLS NO LONGER THAN TWO AND A QUARTER INCHES WHITE MANUFACTURER COLOR IS NOT ALLOWED AND COLOR SELECTION MUST BE PRESENTED TO STAFF. UM, THERE SHOULD BE A MINIMUM OF TWO INCHES IN DEPTH BETWEEN THE FRONT FACE OF THE WINDOW TRIM AND THE FRONT FACE OF THE TOP WINDOW STASH. THIS MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY RECESSING THE WINDOW SUFFICIENTLY WITH THE WIND WITHIN THE OPENING OR WITH THE INSTALLATION OF ADDITIONAL WINDOW TRIM TO ADD THICKNESS WINDOW TRIM. WINDOW TRIM MUST FEATURE TRADITIONAL DIMENSIONS AND ARCHITECTURALLY APPROPRIATE. STILL DETAIL WINDOW TRACK COMPONENTS MUST BE PAINTED TO MATCH THIS WINDOW TRIM OR CONCEALED BY A WOOD WINDOW SCREEN SET WITHIN THE OPENING FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT RETAINED THE DOOR CONFIGURATION ON THE EAST AND NORTH ELEVATION AND REPAIR ANY DAMAGE IN KIND SIX THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT A MEASURED LANDSCAPE PLAN SHOWING THAT THE PROPOSED HARDSCAPE ELEMENTS ALLOW FOR 50% NATURAL GREENERY. UM, SEVEN THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT A MEASURED SITE PLAN AND MATERIAL DETAILS FOR THE REPLACEMENT WERE REPAIR OF THE EXISTING FENCE. UM, EIGHT THAT THE APPLICANT SPOT REPAIRED THE HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING ON THE A D U NINE THAT THE APPLICANT MAINTAINED THE HISTORIC FENESTRATION PATTERNS OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURES NORTH FACADE. IF THE COMMISSION APPROVES THIS ITEM, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT USE ALL THREE WINDOWS IN THE RELOCATION AND THE PROPOSED RELOCATION. INTEND [03:10:01] THAT THE APPLICANT MEET ALL SETBACK STANDARDS AS REQUIRED BY CITY ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAIN THE VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. UM, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM EIGHT BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH P STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT RETAIN THE HISTORIC FENESTRATION PATTERN FOUND ON THE A D U, UM, INCLUDING THE SPLIT, UH, SPLIT BAY GARAGE. UM, THE APPLICANT, GEORGE TORRES IS HERE IN PERSON, AND THERE'S ONE LETTER FOR THE COMMISSIONER REVIEW AS WELL AS ONE VOICEMAIL. UM, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO NOTE, UH, STAFF IS NOT, UH, IS ALSO NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE. OKAY, MR. TORRES? YES. UM, HELLO EVERYONE AGAIN. MY NAME IS, UH, GEORGE TORRES ARCHITECT HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, AND I'M REPRESENTING, UM, SCOTT AND MARY WELLS, WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF, UH, THE PROPERTY. AND, UH, JUST TO KIND OF GIVE YOU A LITTLE OVERVIEW OF THE HOUSE, UM, IT ORIGINALLY WAS CONSTRUCTED AS A DUPLEX. SO THERE WAS A UNIT ON THE FIRST FLOOR, AND THE SECOND UNIT ON THE SECOND FLOOR, UM, IN THE, AROUND TWO THOUSANDS, UM, EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, IT WAS CONVERTED INTO A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE. UM, AND THE, THERE WAS SIGNIFICANT MODIFICATIONS TO THE, TO THE FRONT PORCH. AND THEN, UH, AS YOU WILL SEE LATER ON IN THE PHOTOS, UM, THE REAR PORCH WAS ALSO, UH, ENCLOSED, UM, BOTH ON THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR. SO THEY WERE, THEY WERE OPEN, UM, PORCHES AT ONE POINT, WHICH, UH, WERE ENCLOSED. SO, UM, YEAH, IF WE CAN BACK UP TO THE SITE PLAN, UH, WE ARE PROPOSING, UM, TO DO SOME MODIFICATIONS TO THE, TO THE REAR YARD, UM, STARTING WITH THE REPLACEMENT OF A BRICK PAVED DRIVEWAY. UM, AND WE'RE PROPOSING TO REPLACE IT WITH A CONCRETE DRIVEWAY, UM, WHICH IS SMALLER IN DIMENSION OVERALL DIMENSIONS AND, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE. SO WE'RE REDUCING THE, UH, IMPERVIOUS COVER THERE. UM, AND WE'RE ALSO DEMOLISHING THAT REAR A D U, UM, WHICH IS A C M U ADDITION, WHICH ISN'T CLEAR ON WHEN IT WAS DONE, BUT ASSUMING, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH THE 2000 RENOVATIONS. UM, SO OVERALL, I THINK WE ARE REDUCING THE IMPERVIOUS COVER BY A COUPLE PERCENT. UM, SO I, I FEEL LIKE WHAT WE ARE DOING, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CLIENT IS, THEY, THEY WANT AN, UH, TO USE THE BACKYARD AND TO BE ABLE TO ENTERTAIN AND TO, UM, ALSO JUST KIND OF ENJOY THE, UM, THE SPACE. SO WE'RE PROPOSING, UM, SOME, SOME, UH, LIKE A HOT TUB AREA, A, UH, COVERED ROOF PORCH AT THE, UM, BUILT ON TOP OF THE ADDITION OR BESIDE THE ADDITION. UM, AND THEN ALONG WITH THE NEW REAR PORCH THERE, THAT KIND OF ADDRESSES, UM, THE CURRENT ISSUES, WHICH IT'S NOT REALLY, UH, IT'S NOT THE IDEAL, UM, CONFIGURATIONS, I GUESS. SO, UM, IF YOU'D LIKE TO GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, UH, JUST SOME PHOTOS OF THE CURRENT CONDITIONS OF THE FRONT PORCH, UM, AND THEN THE, UM, WOOD SHAKE SHINGLES THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO REPLACE WITH ARCHITECTURAL COMPOSITE SHINGLES. UM, AND IN THE FRONT PORCH WE WILL OR PROPOSING TO REPLACE WITH A COMPOSITE DECKING. AND AGAIN, DUE TO JUST MAINTENANCE ISSUES, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOS. THE NEXT SLIDE, UH, SOME PHOTOS OF THE, UH, REAR DECK AND THE REAR AWNING, WHICH WE ARE PROPOSING TO REPLACE WITH, UH, A NEW DESIGN AND A NEW COVERED PORCH. UH, WE'RE ALSO PROPOSING, UM, TO ADJUST OR I GUESS INCREASE THE, THE FIXED WINDOWS. UH, THERE'S FOUR TWO BY TWO WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR THERE THAT YOU CAN SEE. AND, UH, WE'RE TRYING TO GET SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, DAYLIGHT IN THE SECOND FLOOR. SO WE'RE, UH, PROPOSING TO CHANGE THOSE TO TWO BY FOUR CONFIGURATION. SO SIMILAR, UM, JUST TALLER. UM, THESE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE, UH, REAR YARD CONDITIONS AND, UH, JUST KIND OF WHAT'S THERE AND WHAT, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO DEMOLISH. AND, UH, THIS, THESE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE, UH, A D U STRUCTURE, WHICH, UH, WE BELIEVE IS ORIGINAL TO THE PROPERTY. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING, UH, SOME MODIFICATIONS TO MAKE IT USABLE. UH, CURRENTLY YOU CAN'T FIT A CAR, UH, IN THE GARAGE, SO WE'RE PROPOSING EXTENDING THE, THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT ABOUT FOUR FEET, UM, [03:15:01] OUT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO FIT, UH, TWO CARS. WE'RE ALSO COMBINING THE, THE GARAGE DOORS INTO A 16 FOOT, UM, DOOR, WHICH, UH, IS, AS YOU WILL SEE, CARRIAGE STYLE AND WE BELIEVE IS, IS, UM, ARCHITECTURALLY APPROPRIATE, UM, AS, AS WE, YOU COULD KIND OF MOVE FORWARD. UH, THIS IS THE A D U THAT WE'RE PROPOSING, UH, TO DEMOLISH, AGAIN, NOT ORIGINAL TO THE, THE PROPERTY. AND THEN WE GET INTO THE DRAWINGS, UM, ON THE, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO, UM, IS THE REAR PORCH DESIGN. WE ARE PROPOSING A, UM, JUST A HIP ROOF SIMILAR TO THE FRONT PORCH, UM, SO THAT WE BELIEVE IS ARCHITECTURALLY APPROPRIATE. UM, AND WE ARE PROPOSING TO, UM, REPLACE THE EXISTING DOORS, UM, LEADING INTO THE, YOU KNOW, ON THE REAR PORCH, UM, WITH A MULTI BIFOLD, UH, CONFIGURATION WINDOW AS WELL AS, UM, TALLER. SO WE'RE KIND OF REMOVING THE TRANSOMS AND JUST KIND OF INCREASING THE OVERALL, UH, OPENING, UH, DIMENSIONS THERE. AND AGAIN, THE REASON THAT THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO ENTERTAIN, THEY WANNA BE ABLE TO OPEN THE, OPEN IT UP ON THE, THE DAYS THAT SAN ANTONIO DOES HAVE GOOD WEATHER. UM, SO THAT, THAT KIND OF EXPLAINS THE, THE PORCH MODIFICATIONS. UM, AND THEN THIS NORTH ELEVATION HERE, UM, WE ARE DOING A, AN INTERIOR REMODEL, AND THE ENTRY, UH, FOYER RIGHT NOW IS, UH, RELATIVELY, UM, NARROW AND DIMM. AND SO WE ARE TRYING TO KIND OF INCREASE THAT FOYER REDESIGN IT, UM, AND IN TURN, UH, REQUIRES US TO, TO RELOCATE SOME OF THE WINDOWS, UH, TO GET SOME MORE NATURAL LIGHT INTO THAT FOYER. UM, AND ON THE SECOND FLOOR, YOU WILL SEE THERE THAT WE'RE, UH, I GUESS PROPOSING TO REMOVE AND, UH, ONE OF THE WINDOWS JUST BECAUSE, UM, IT KIND OF FALLS WITHIN, UM, A WALL LOCATION, YOU KNOW, UM, CLOSET. SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S THAT. AND THEN THESE ARE PROPOSED MATERIALS. UM, AGAIN, OUR ARCHITECTURAL, UM, COMPOSITE SHINGLE, WOOD CLAD WINDOWS. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING TO MATCH THE TRIM, UH, AT THE REAR PORCH WITH, UM, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THERE NOW. SO VERY SIMILAR, UM, CONFIGURATIONS. AND THEN, UH, THE PORCH ALSO HAS A NEW, NEW POST THAT, UH, RESEMBLES THE EXISTING, UM, UH, COLUMN YOU SEE THERE, THE PI LASTER. AND THEN THESE ARE SOME, UM, FLOOR PLANS OF THE, THE A D U. UH, AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, WE ARE ABLE TO NOW FIT TWO CARS AND, UM, ALSO PROPOSING TO DO KIND OF A ROOF DECK CONDITION, UH, WHICH ARCHITECTURALLY KIND OF RESEMBLES, UH, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE A PORTE, UH, UM, CONFIGURATION, UH, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT REALLY PARKING A VEHICLE UNDERNEATH IT. UM, IT ALLOWS FOR SOME, SOME SHADED, UM, AREAS TO, TO SIT UNDER. AND THEN A PERGOLA STRUCTURE, UM, OVER THE HOT TUB AREA THERE. UM, JUST KIND OF CEILING PLANS. YEAH. UM, PRETTY BASIC THERE. AND THEN, UM, ANOTHER THING TO NOTE WITH THE A D U IS THAT THE, WE ARE PROPOSING TO ENCLOSE AN EXISTING BALCONY SPACE ON THE SECOND FLOOR. UM, AND THAT, UH, ESSENTIALLY INCREASES THE SECOND FLOOR SQUARE FOOTAGE. UM, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A VARIANCE THAT WILL MORE THAN LIKELY HAVE TO, UM, REQUEST FROM THE CITY, BUT WE FEEL LIKE, UM, IT IS AN EXISTING CONDITION, AND WE ARE, YOU KNOW, JUST IN KIND OF ENCLOSING THE SPACE THERE. AND IN TERMS OF THE ROOF CONFIGURATION, WE'RE PROPOSING, UH, A LITTLE, UH, HIP STRUCTURE THERE, UM, I GUESS CONFIGURATION IN ORDER TO SET IT BACK FROM THE, UM, NEIGHBORING, UH, HOTEL. SO THERE'S CURRENTLY, YOU WALK OUT ON THE SECOND FLOOR, UM, AND YOU COULD SEE INTO THE HOTEL POOL, UM, AND ESSENTIALLY KIND OF JUST, UH, SEEING EVERYONE SWIM AND EVERYTHING. SO, UH, WE'D LIKE TO TRY TO IN, IN THIS MOVE, YOU KNOW, WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE BEING A GOOD NEIGHBOR AND, UH, IN CLOSING THAT AND PROVIDING SOME FENESTRATION, UM, LIKE HIGHER WINDOWS, UM, JUST FOR VISIBILITY. AND, UM, AGAIN, JUST SCREENING OF, UH, NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. SO, AND AGAIN, THESE ARE THE ELEVATIONS AS, AS YOU CAN SEE, UM, UM, ON THE, [03:20:01] UH, WEST ELEVATION, WE'RE PROPOSING THAT 16 FOOT GARAGE DOOR. UM, AND WE ARE MODIFYING THE FENESTRATION OF THE WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, IN ORDER TO, UM, INCLUDE A, UH, YOU KNOW, PAIR OF FRENCH DOORS, UH, TO ALLOW ONTO THE SECOND, UH, FLOOR BALCONY THERE. AND AS I MENTIONED, THE, UM, THE NEW WINDOWS ON THE SOUTH AND NORTH ELEVATIONS, UH, AS LONG AS, AS WELL AS THE ENCLOSURE OF THE SECOND FLOOR BALCONY AREA. SO ON THE EAST, UM, THESE ARE SOME, I GUESS THE PROPOSED MATERIALS WE'RE MAINTAINING THE EXISTING ROOF. AND WE WILL PLAN TO, UH, TIE IN WITH, WITH A NEW ROOF, UM, GOV GOLUM STANDING SEA METAL ROOF, UM, WOOD CLAD WINDOWS, MORE, MORE THAN LIKELY ALUMINUM WINDOWS, UM, ALUMINUM CLAD WINDOWS, SORRY. AND, UH, THE PICTURE OF THE PROPOSED GARAGE DOOR, UH, THE EXISTING, UM, DUTCH LAP SIDING THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO KEEP. UM, AND THEN I GUESS ON THE ELEVATIONS, WE'RE, WE'RE ALSO ON THE, ON THE ENCLOSED PORTION OF THE SECOND FLOOR. WE ARE PROPOSING TO, UH, USE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, UH, EXPOSURE FOR, FOR THE SIDING THERE, JUST TO DIFFERENTIATE FROM EXISTING TO THE NEW. UM, AND THEN IN TERMS OF A RAIL, UH, AGAIN, THAT WILL ALSO BE A PROPOSED, UM, COMPOSITE RAILING, UM, BUT TRADITIONAL IN NATURE, UM, TO STAY IN LINE WITH THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO, AND I BELIEVE THAT CONCLUDES THE PRESENTATION. THANK YOU. UM, AND WE HAVE THE VOICEMAIL, PLEASE. MY NAME IS LISA LYNN. I'M CALLING FROM THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ON BEHALF OF THE ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE. THIS IS REGARDING 3 28 MADISON, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 2 4 4. DEAR COMMISSIONERS, THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEWED THE APPLICATION WITH THE O H P STAFF CITING RELEVANT HISTORIC GUIDELINES AND FINDINGS. WE RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE SINCE THERE ARE NUMEROUS PREVIOUS APPLICATIONS APPROVED BY THE H D R C, WHERE COMPOSITE DECKING WITHOUT FAUX WOOD GRAIN FINISH HAS BEEN APPROVED TO REPLACE ROT AND PORCH DECKING. WE CONCUR WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL WITH STIPULATIONS FOR ITEMS NUMBER 2 3 6. WE REQUEST THAT THE APPLICANT CONSIDER DESIGN ALTERNATIVES TO AVOID FILLING IN THREE WINDOWS ON THE NORTH ELEVATION OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IN ITEM SEVEN. NOT ONLY IS IT AGAINST THE GUIDELINES AS NOTED IN FINDING I, BUT IT WILL ALSO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO MATCH THE EXISTING BRICK AND MORTAR. FINALLY, THE TWO-STORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS INDICATED ON THE SANDBORN MAP. HOWEVER, THE ONE STORY C M U PORTION IS NOT A PART OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. DEMOLITION OF THE C M U PORTION IN ITEM EIGHT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. AS NOTED IN FINDING J WE REQUEST THAT THE APPLICANT INVESTIGATE DESIGN ALTERNATIVES TO UTILIZE THE OF THE ORIGINAL TWO-STORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES, COMMISSIONER GROUP. I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. CAN STAFF PULL UP THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS? YEAH, AND I WANNA JUST NOTE, UM, BEFOREHAND, SO WE SAID WE'RE, WE HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEMS TWO THROUGH SEVEN. WE SOMEHOW MISSED ITEM ONE, BUT I WILL READ THE FINDING, UM, THAT BASICALLY SAYS THERE'S CONCERN WITH THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT, BUT WE DO AGREE SIMILAR TO THE COMMENTS OF THE KING WILLIAMS ASSOCIATION, THAT COMPOSITE MATERIALS HAVE BEEN APPROVED AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR WOOD DECKING. UM, AND SO OUR RECOMMENDATION IS THAT THE COMPOSITE MATERIAL FOLLOWS THE ADOPTED POLICY GUIDE, WHICH IS NO FAUX WOOD GRAIN, THREE INCHES, UM, TONGUE AND GROOVE. OKAY, THAT WAS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS. AND THEN YOU'RE SAYING YOU CONCEPT APPROVE ITEMS TWO TO THROUGH SEVEN, BUT ITEM SEVEN IS ELIMINATING THE WINDOWS ON THE NORTH FACADE, AND YOU HAVE STIPULATION NINE SAYING THAT THE APPLICANT MAINTAINED THE HISTORIC FENESTRATIONS. SO WE'RE NOT REALLY RECOMMENDING APPROVAL ON ITEM SEVEN. THAT'S CORRECT. I'M SORRY, THAT'S . THERE'S A LOT OF ITEMS NOT JUST CLARIFY. AND THEN CLEAR STIPULATIONS EIGHT, THAT THE APPLICANT'S SPOT REPAIR, THERE WAS AN HORIZONTAL, AN HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING ON THE A D U, IF YOU'RE NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL ITEM EIGHT, WHAT DOES THAT RELATE TO? PROBABLY NOT. UM, THERE, THERE MIGHT BE SOME SPOT REPAIR NEEDED ON THE A D U. SO IF, UM, IF THE APPLICANT NEEDING TO DO THAT, THEN [03:25:01] UM, THEN STAFF WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THAT. OKAY. BUT THEN YOU DID SAY IN THE, UH, IN SOME OF THE FINDINGS THAT YOU WERE CONCURRING THAT THE, THE ADDITION COULD BE DEMOLISHED, BUT YOU'RE STILL NOT APPROVING ITEM EIGHT, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL ITEM EIGHT. SURE. SO, UM, LET ME, LET ME GO UP. SO ITEM EIGHT, UM, HAS SEVERAL PARTS TO IT. UH, GENERALLY STAFF WOULD BE RECOMMEND, UM, STAFF WOULD, UH, BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE DEMOLITION OF THE C M U PORTION THAT'S NOT ORIGINAL AND DOESN'T APPEAR ON ANY SANBORN MAPS, UM, OR STAFF HAS SOME, UM, YOU KNOW, DIFFERING OPINION OR WOULD BE THE, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THE FENESTRATION PATTERNS, THE, YOU KNOW, AND A FEW. OKAY. SO KIND OF ALSO LIKE, ALONG WITH THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION COMMENTS. UH, YES. THOSE WERE MY QUESTIONS. UH, AND THEN LAST TO YOU, HAVE YOU HAVE NOT REALLY RESPONDED TO THESE STIPULATIONS, DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THEM OR, UM, SURE. YEAH. SO I BELIEVE, UM, NUMBER THREE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLED ONE OVER ONE WINDOW CONFIGURATIONS, UM, AT THE EAST ELEVATION. SO THAT'S THE, THE REAR. UM, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW THEY'RE, THEY'RE TWO BY TWO FIXED WINDOWS AND WE'RE JUST, UM, GONNA MODIFY 'EM TO TWO BY FOUR, UH, FIXED WINDOW CONFIGURATIONS. SO, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY FEEL THAT WE'RE, WE'RE PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES THERE. UM, AND THEN AS, AS WELL AS THE, THE DOORS, UH, LEADING TO THE, TO THE REAR YARD, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT, UM, IS A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEMPORARY. BUT, UH, IT IS, YOU KNOW, UM, ALLOWING FOR MORE USABILITY, UM, FOR THE CLIENT, THEIR, THEIR, THEIR NEEDS AND THEIR WANTS, UH, IN, IN REGARDS TO WANTING TO ENTERTAIN AND THEN, UH, KIND OF HAVE A INDOOR OUTDOOR, UH, SPACE THERE. SO, UM, THEN THE OTHER ITEM NUMBER FIVE, UH, THAT, WHICH I JUST TOUCHED ON, RIGHT, THE DOOR CONFIGURATION ON THE EAST AND NORTH ELEVATION. SO AGAIN, THAT'S TO THE REAR YARD. UM, AND I DON'T, WE'RE STILL KEEPING THE OVERALL DIMENSIONS AND, AND THE FENESTRATION, HOWEVER, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE REMOVING THOSE, UM, THE CLEAR STORY WINDOWS THERE. AND AGAIN, UH, THOSE, THOSE WINDOWS AND DOORS ARE NOT ORIGINAL TO, UM, THE PROPERTY. SO WE ARE REQUESTING TO, TO CHANGE THOSE, UM, WITH THE RENOVATIONS. UM, AND THEN THE LAST ONE THAT I HAVE MARKED IS NUMBER NINE, UM, THAT THE, HIS, UM, APPLICANT, YOU KNOW, MAINTAINED A HISTORIC FENESTRATION PATTERN OF THE, UH, A D U. UM, SO AGAIN, UM, WE ARE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO, UM, IMPROVE ON, ON WHAT'S THERE, THAT THAT STRUCTURE IS IN REAL POOR CONDITION. UM, IT IS JUST A, YOU KNOW, TWO BY FOUR FRAMING WITH THE, UM, THE CLA SIDE OR, YOU KNOW, THE, THE SIDING, UH, HOLDING EVERYTHING KIND OF IN PLACE. UH, THERE'S NO SHEATHING, THERE'S NO, UM, AIR BARRIER OR WATERPROOFING, UM, ON THE WALLS. SO, UH, WE'RE GONNA BRING THAT UP TO CODE. UM, BUT AS WE DO THAT, WE, WE DO WANT TO, UM, KIND OF ADJUST THE FENESTRATION, UM, BASED ON THE NEW DESIGN. SO THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. COMMISSIONER SAVINO, UH, YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. TORRES. UM, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE A D U BRINGING IT UP TO CODE, UM, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT REMOVING ALL OF THE EXISTING SIDING TO THEN SHE THAT, AND THEN BRINGING IT UP TO A MODERN? NO. UM, SO THE, THE CONTRACTOR THAT I'M, I'M WORKING WITH, UM, HE, HE FEELS THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO, UH, MAINTAIN THE EXISTING SIGHTING. SO THAT'S, WE'RE TRYING TO DO THAT WHERE POSSIBLE, UH, WHICH IN THIS CASE IS THE MAJORITY OF, OF THE A D U, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE NEW, UH, WINDOWS BEING PROPOSED. UM, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS, YOU KNOW, INSULATING, UH, ON THE INSIDE AND THERE, THERE'S A, THERE'S A, UH, PRODUCT THAT ACTS AS A, UM, KIND OF A WATERPROOFING, UM, UM, LAYER MM-HMM. BEFORE YOU INSTALL YOUR, YOUR INSULATION, SO MM-HMM. MM-HMM. . AND THEN HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO, UH, USE THE ORIGINAL SIDING TO EXTEND, TO GET THE ADDITIONAL FEW FEET IN THE LARGER FOOTPRINT THAT, UM, WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? RIGHT. SO THAT WE'D HAVE TO KIND OF LOOK AT HOW MUCH WE ARE PULLING OFF AND, UH, WHICH IN THE, IN ON, I GUESS ON THE FIRST FLOOR, UM, THAT MIGHT [03:30:01] MAKE MORE SENSE TO DIFFER, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE NEW, UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN MATCH THE EXISTING SIGHTING, OBVIOUSLY. RIGHT. 'CAUSE IN A CASE LIKE THAT, IF IT'S AN ADDITION, IT SHOULD DISTINGUISH ITSELF FROM THE ORIGINAL. SO THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE TO, UM, USE A DIFFERENT MATERIAL AND MM-HMM. USE A SEPARATOR. OKAY. YEAH. AND WE CAN, YEAH, TOTALLY. LOOK AT THAT. UM, YEAH, THAT, YEP. MR. CHAIR, COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, UH, I, I'M LOOKING AT THE, THE LIST OF, UH, ALL OF THE STIPULATIONS HERE, AND, AND I WANNA ASK STAFF A QUESTION REAL QUICK. UH, IN TERMS OF STAFF SAYING, AND I KNOW THIS IS JUST COMMON, I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IT RIGHT NOW, THE STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF ITEMS TWO THROUGH SEVEN. IS THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THIS, THE RECOMMENDATIONS OR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF WHAT THE GENTLEMAN IS PRESENTING AS IT RELATES TO WHAT HE'S PRESENTING? THERE'S A NUMBER OF ITEMS THAT WE'VE NUMBERED ONE THROUGH EIGHT DIRECT. SO WE, THE APPLICANT IS ASKING FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF HIS ONE THROUGH EIGHT, NOT THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF ONE THROUGH EIGHT. OKAY. RIGHT. SO THEN, SO THEN, SIR, J J, JUST TO, I DO WANT TO GET A, A FEEL FOR HOW YOU WOULD RESPOND TO ANY, ANY SUGGESTION THAT THE, THE, THE WINDOW ALTERATION IN THE BRICK PART MM-HMM. , RIGHT? HOW, HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO A QUESTION OF ENCAPSULATING THE WINDOW ON THE INTERIOR SIDE AND LEAVING THE WINDOW ON THE OUTSIDE FOR REVERSIBILITY REASONS? MM-HMM. , UM, UH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I BROUGHT UP, UH, TO MY CLIENT. UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE. UM, THEY'RE NOT, NOT NECESSARILY OPPOSED TO THE IDEA. I GUESS WHAT THEY, WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE IS TO REALLY GET, UM, NATURAL LIGHT INTO THAT, THAT FOYER. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT'S A STRETCH TO TRY TO KEEP THOSE EXISTING WINDOWS WHERE THEY'RE AT, UM, AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION TO, UM, YOU KNOW, CLOSE 'EM OFF FROM THE, FROM THE INSIDE. THANK YOU, SIR. MM-HMM. ? YES. UH, ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, A QUESTION, DID YOU LOOK AT KEEPING THE THREE EXISTING ONES IN PLACE, BLOCK 'EM OFF ON THE INSIDE AND THEN ADDING THE TWO WINDOWS THAT YOU WANT FOR THE FRONT VESTIBULE? DID YOU STUDY THAT ELEVATION AT ALL? UM, NO, BUT YOU CAN, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IF , IF YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD PROBABLY, UH, GET A GOOD, UM, PICTURE OF, OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. UM, AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE OPPOSED TO IT. I I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME CONCERNS ON, UM, UH, WATERPROOFING, UH, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE LINE AND, AND HOW WELL, UH, SEALING THOSE WINDOWS, UM, WILL PERFORM IN THE FUTURE. SO I, I THINK THAT'S A CONSIDERATION OF THE CLIENT. UM, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR MIND IF, IF WE'RE INFILLING THOSE OPENINGS, THEN WE'RE ADDRESSING A NUMBER OF THINGS, UM, WITH THAT. OKAY. COMMISSIONER FISH, I, I MEAN, I'M, I'M KIND OF WHERE THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS HERE. I'VE GOT QUESTIONS ABOUT SEVEN AND EIGHT. I THINK A D R C WOULD GO A LONG WAY IN CLEARING UP ITEMS SEVEN AND EIGHT. I FEEL PRETTY COMFORTABLE WITH ITEMS ONE THROUGH SIX, SO I, I DON'T DUNNO IF YOU, YOU WOULD PREFER TO KIND OF KEEP THIS ALL TOGETHER AND HAVE A D R C TO DEAL WITH ITEM SEVEN AND EIGHT, WHERE THERE'S SOME GREAT SPECIFIC DISCUSSION NECESSARILY NEC, LIKE, THAT'S PROBABLY REQUIRED TO FIND A RESOLUTION. OR MAYBE IF WE COULD, IF WE SHOULD SPLIT THIS INTO TWO PIECES. WELL, IT, IT'S CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, SO YOU COULD STILL DO A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH SOME OF THE STIPULATIONS, SEND SOME OF THEM SPECIFICALLY TO D R C AND, AND YOU'RE REFERENCING TO, UM, ITEM SEVEN AND EIGHT OF THE REQUESTS, RIGHT? YES. ITEM SEVEN, EIGHT OF YOUR REQUEST, NOT STIPULATIONS SEVEN AND EIGHT. OKAY. I KNOW THEY'RE NOT ALIGNED, RIGHT. SO IT'S, IT'S CLEANER AND THAT'S GONNA BE THE FENESTRATION CHANGE IN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND THEN THE, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BITS, I, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BEST WAY FORWARD. UH, I, I DO WANT IT'S CONCEPTUAL ANYWAY, COMMISSIONER FISH. SO IT, IT IS, I, I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A, UH, I, I, I AGREE WITH STAFF AND WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON, ON IDA REQUEST ITEMS ONE THROUGH SIX AND THEIR STIPULATIONS GENERALLY. SO I'M, I DEFINITELY SUPPORT THOSE. AND THE OTHER TWO I'D LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT. SO I, I'LL MAKE A MOTION THAT WE CAN DISCUSS AND MAYBE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD, UH, MOVE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ON ITEMS ONE THROUGH ON REQUEST ITEMS ONE THROUGH SIX WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS TO REFER ITEMS SEVEN AND EIGHT TO A D R C. SECOND. SECOND. UH, JUST [03:35:01] A NOTE, AND MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE, BUT THERE WAS A D R C. YES. YES. UH, WE MET WITH THE D R C AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL. YES. I ATTENDED, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO ELSE, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYTHING THAT WAS PRESENTED TODAY WAS ACTUALLY REVIEWED BECAUSE HE, IT WASN'T THAT FAR IN THE PLAN. IT WAS THE, THE NORTH ELEVATION DIDN'T, UM, INCLUDE THE, THE IN FILLING OF THE WINDOWS. THAT'S THE ELEVATION. YEAH, THAT'S THE BIG THAT THAT'S THE BIG ONE. MM-HMM. SO, UH, AND I WILL SAY THAT HE HAS MADE SOME MODIFICATIONS, UH, TO HIS ORIGINAL DESIGN BASED ON THE D R C DISCUSSION, SUCH AS THE HIP ROOF ON THE REAR ADDITION TO THE A D U. PREVIOUSLY HE HAD A GABLE, UH, ROOF ON THAT, AND ALSO ON THE BALCONY OF THE A D U. ORIGINALLY HE HAD TWO PAIRS OF DOORS, UH, OPENING ONTO THE BALCONY, AND WE DISCUSSED LOOKING AT THE PRECEDENT, WHICH IS A PAIR OF WINDOWS, UH, ON THAT, UH, FACADE, AND THEN WORKING A DOOR INTO THAT, UH, DESIGN. SO HE HAS MADE SOME MODIFICATIONS, BUT THAT'S JUST FOR INFORMATION. WELL, CAN I ASK TO THAT AS A DISCUSSION ITEM, HAS THIS BEEN SAID, DOES THIS MEAN THAT IN THE D R C YOU WERE IN AGREEMENT WITH EXPANDING THE A D U FOUR FEET TO ONE SIDE AND MODIFYING BASICALLY EVERYTHING ON IT? WAS THAT DISCUSSED? WE REALLY DID NOT DISCUSS THE CHANGING OF WINDOWS. WE WERE OKAY WITH ENLARGING THE D THE A D U TO ACCOMMODATE VEHICLES AND THEN ENCLOSING THE BACK, UH, PORTION TOWARDS THE, THE NEIGHBOR. I THINK THE MOTION STILL WEREN'T, UH, I MEAN, IT'S OPTIONAL BY THE D R C, BUT I THINK THAT IF I, IF I COULD JUST CLARIFY THE MOTION ON CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, IT'S ESSENTIALLY A NON-BINDING MOTION, BUT KIND OF GIVES YOU A CLEAR DIRECTION IN WHERE WE'RE COMFORTABLE, WHERE WE'RE NOT. UH, I THINK A D R C WOULD PROBABLY GO A LONG WAY IN CLEARING UP SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ON, ON REQUEST ITEM SEVEN AND EIGHT. I DON'T BELIEVE YOU'D HAVE TO COME BACK FOR AN ADDITIONAL CONCEPTUAL REVIEW OF THOSE ITEMS, BUT COULD FOLD IT INTO JUST COMING BACK FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SO I DON'T, I I'M NOT, IT MIGHT SOUND LIKE I'M TRYING TO ADD A STEP. I'M NOT TRYING TO ADD A STEP. RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND. FOLLOW UP ON ITEM SEVEN AND EIGHT. IS THAT CLEAR TO THE COMMISSION? IT DOES. AND MR. CHAIR, I WOULD WOULD LIKE TO JUST COMMENT TO THE APPLICANT HERE. IT'S A, IT'S BEAUTIFUL DESIGN. THANK YOU. AND, AND THE, THE WAY THAT IT'S PRESENTED, ONE CAN PUT THEMSELVES IN THE SPACE AND, AND FEEL WHAT THE LIFE WILL BE LIKE IN THAT SPACE IS, UH, WELL PUT TOGETHER. THE, UM, THE WINDOW CIRCUMSTANCE, I THINK IS PROBABLY ONLY OUTSTANDING IN THE BRICK ASPECT OF IT. MM-HMM. THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE FEAR THAT, THAT THERE'S AN UNUSED WINDOW AND IT'S SUBJECT TO MOISTURE AND WHATEVER'S ON THE OTHER SIDE. RIGHT. UM, IS ALWAYS A QUESTION OF WHAT'S APPROPRIATE, UH, AND OR WHAT IS PERMANENT. RIGHT. DOES THAT REALLY APPRECIATE THAT, THAT YOU'VE LOOKED AT THAT, UH, AND HAVE TALKED TO YOUR, YOUR CLIENT ABOUT THAT. IT'S VERY SENSITIVE, BUT, BUT VERY NICE DESIGN. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. COMMISSIONER SAVINO. THANK YOU. UM, TO THE D R C THAT WE HAD, WE DID DISCUSS QUITE A FEW THINGS ABOUT THE A D U, AND IT RANGED FROM THINGS THAT ARE, UH, APPEARING ON THE RE UH, MODIFICATION OF THE DRAWINGS. I THINK THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE, THE CONNECTION, THE STAIR CONNECTION RELATIVE TO THE ENTRYWAY AND THE DECK, AND HOW DOES THAT BEGIN TO REALLY MODIFY WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL, UM, A D U, UH, THE SINGLE LARGE DOOR, ALSO THE BALCONY ON THE FRONT. SO ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT LED TO THE POINT THAT HOW MUCH OF THIS A D U, THE ORIGINAL A D U IS REALLY LEFT. SO THE, UM, SO THE GOAL HERE IS TO KEEP OR KEEP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND OF THE PARTS THAT REMAIN, MAKE THEM AS VISIBLE AS POSSIBLE. SO REINSTATING THE TWO WINDOWS ON THE FRONT IS A REALLY GOOD MOVE, UM, TO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE, UH, ELEVATION WITH THE, THE WINDOW RELOCATIONS. UM, I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IF YOU WOULD CONSIDER A D R C AND BRINGING A FLOOR PLAN SO WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CONSIDER WITHOUT A FLOOR PLAN. WE'RE JUST TALKING. YEAH, YEAH, SURE. NOT A PROBLEM. OKAY, THANKS. MM-HMM. , I HAVE ONE MORE . I JUST WANTED TO, I JUST WANTED TO, UH, SECOND THAT, YOU KNOW, TO MAKE A COMPELLING ARGUMENT ABOUT INTRODUCING MORE LIGHT INTO THE VESTIBULE THAN SHOW US THAT PLAN, EVEN IF IT'S JUST A PORTION OF THAT PLAN. RIGHT. I THINK, I THINK THAT WILL STRENGTHEN YOUR ARGUMENT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WELL, I MEAN, IT IS CONCEPTUAL, SO THERE'S A LIMIT TO HOW MUCH WE CAN ASK FOR IN OF THE FLOOR PLANS AND ET CETERA. UM, BUT I, YOU KNOW, IF, IF HE'S ASKING TO ALTER THE EXTERIOR OF THE, OF THE BUILDING'S FENESTRATION, [03:40:01] I THINK IT'S REASONABLE TO ASK FOR PLANS. YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK EVEN AT CONCEPTUAL LEVEL, I THINK AT LEAST ALSO, CAN WE GET A PICTURE? LIKE, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A BIG ASK, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S NOT COMMONLY THAT WE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, DO SEE A FENESTRATION CHANGE. I SEE IT VERY, I MEAN, IT HAS TO BE A REALLY, REALLY STRONG COMPELLING CASE. MM-HMM. , I THINK IF WE'RE TALKING CONCEPTUALLY, I THINK THE MOTIONS THEN THAT I WOULD GO WITH WHAT THE MOTION IS, BUT I DID NOT SEE EITHER ANY PICTURES OR ANY DETAILS. AND I THINK, UM, STAFF HAS IT RIGHT OF LIKE, HOW DO YOU, HOW ARE YOU GONNA MATCH THAT BRICK AND HOW IS THE MORTAR? THAT'S GONNA PROBABLY BE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE MORE THAN RIGHT. AND, UM, RIGHT. SO I'VE, I'VE REQUESTED THAT THE CONTRACTOR START LOOKING AT THAT AND, AND, UM, TRYING TO GET SOME INFORMATION ON WHERE WE'RE GONNA SOURCE THE BRICK AND SEE IF WE COULD KIND OF COMPARE IT. UM, AND THEN JUST SPEAKING ON AGAIN, THE, THE HISTORY OF THE HOUSE THERE, UH, LIKE THE, THE FRONT PORCH, UH, THERE ON THE NORTH ELEVATION, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE THE VARIATION IN THE, THE NEW AND THE EXISTING, LIKE WHAT WAS TRULY ORIGINAL. UM, IT'S NOT REALLY APPARENT IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT, UM, JUST IN, IN PERSON, UH, THERE IS, THERE ARE AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN INFILLED. I THINK AT ONE POINT THE, THE DUPLEX HAD AN ELEVATOR, UH, ON THE EXTERIOR, UM, THAT, THAT OPENING GOT, YOU KNOW, UH, COVERED AND, AND THINGS. SO, SO THERE'S, UH, THERE'S MERIT TO, TO YOUR COMMENTS AND I, AND I FEEL LIKE, UM, WE, WE WOULD TAKE THE APPROPRIATE STEPS TO, TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, SHOW YOU THAT WE'RE GONNA DO, DO IT CORRECTLY. SO, BUT, UM, TO ADD TO THAT, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE WILL PRESENT A COUPLE OPTIONS, UM, ON THE ELEVATION FOR CON CONSIDERATION ON THAT D R C MEETING. OKAY. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM 22. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 22 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH THREE 14. THIS IS FOR 1519 ALITOS UM, STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL. TWO, ONE, INSTALL A WROUGHT IRON VENT, PEDESTRIAN GATE AND VEHICLE GATE ON THE PROPERTY. TWO, MODIFY THE FENESTRATION PATTERNS ON EACH SIDE OF THE STRUCTURE. THREE. INSTALL FLOOR, UM, GLASS BLOCKS ON THE WESTERN PORTION OF THE PROPERTY. FOUR. MODIFY ROOF FEATURES. UM, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR BASED ON FINDINGS BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH I WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE APPLICANT PRESENT TO STAFF AND AN AN IN KIND WINDOW REPLACEMENT FOR WINDOWS THAT ARE FOUND TO BE BEYOND REPAIR FOR FINAL REVIEW BY STAFF IF NEEDED. TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL A WOOD DOOR THAT IS SYMPATHETIC TO THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OF THE STRUCTURE ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE SOUTH FACADE AND SUBMIT TO STAFF FOR FINAL APPROVAL. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT RETAINED THE HISTORIC WINDOW OPENING ON THE SECOND FLOOR. FOUR, THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS FOR THE PROPOSED CLEAR STORY WINDOWS ON THE STRUCTURE AND SUBMIT MANUFACTURER CUT SHEETS FOR THE WINDOWS PRIOR TO APPROVAL WITH STAFF. STANDARD STIPULATIONS LISTED FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT ACCURATE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS FOR THE SOUTH ELEVATION TO STAFF FOR REVIEW PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. SIX, THAT THE APPLICANT RETAIN THE HISTORIC ROOF FENCE. AND SEVEN, THAT THE APPLICANT MEET ALL SETBACK STANDARDS AS REQUIRED BY CITY ZONING REQUIREMENTS AND OBTAIN A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS IF BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IF APPLICABLE. OKAY. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME'S ERIC. I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE OWNER OF 1519 ALITO STREET. UM, I JUST WANNA COME WITH THE REMARKS, UM, GIVEN BY THE OWNER. UM, HE, HE AGREES TO ALL THE STIPULATIONS, UM, WITH THE ONE EXCEPTION OF JUST, UH, THE REMOVAL OF THE HISTORIC BENT ROOFS AS THEY WEREN'T A PART OF THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE OLD FIRE STATION 16, UH, THAT WAS CONSTRUCTION IN THE 1920S. UM, THE ROOF FENCE WERE INSTALLED IN THE 1970S, UM, AS THAT WAS NOTIFIED. UM, SO THAT'S THE ONLY, I THINK, ITEM ON THAT LIST THERE THAT THEY KIND OF HAVE SOME KIND OF PUSHBACK ON. UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, EVERYTHING ELSE AS FAR AS THE WINDOWS, DOORS, EVERYTHING'S MEANT TO BE RESTORED IN KIND, UH, TO MATCH THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AND THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE OF THE [03:45:01] FIRE STATION 16, UH, THE OWNER IS VERY SYMPATHETIC IN MAINTAINING THE ORIGINAL LOOK OF THE BUILDING ON THE EXTERIOR. UM, SO ALL WINDOWS, DOORS, EVERYTHING ON THE HISTORIC BUILDING IS MEANT TO STAY, AS IS, UH, THE TWO ADDITIONS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO THE FIRE STATION 16 WERE BUILT AFTER AND NOT CONSIDERED HISTORIC. UM, SO THOSE, THERE WILL BE SOME WINDOWS, SOME MINOR SMALL, UH, SKYLIGHT WINDOWS THAT WILL BE PUT ONTO THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO GIVE LIGHTING INTO THE KITCHEN. UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, EVERYTHING ON THE STORAGE SIDE, UM, IT WILL BE REMAINING THE SAME. AND AS FAR AS THE COMMENT OF UPDATING THOSE, UH, DOCUMENTS, UH, I SPOKE WITH THE OWNER TO GET WITH THE ARCHITECT TO UPDATE THOSE DRAWINGS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE TO GET 'EM OVER TO Y'ALL'S RECORDS. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER SAVINO? YES. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. UM, A FEW QUESTIONS. STAFF, ALTHOUGH THE ADDITION, THE FLAT ROOFED ADDITIONS ARE NOT ORIGINAL, THEY'RE STILL CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTING AND HISTORIC, RIGHT? RIGHT. THEY'RE PART OF THE HISTORIC PROPERTY AND SO WE REALLY YEAH, BUT THEY'RE JUST CONSIDERED NOT ORIGINAL, SO THEY ARE HANDLED DIFFERENTLY. JUST SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE HAD BEEN A FINDING OF NON, OF A NON-CONTRIBUTING ON THIS PROPERTY. THERE'S LOWER PRIORITY ON HOW ALTERATIONS ARE MADE TO THOSE LATER ADDITIONS. OKAY. UM, WHEN YOU'RE REFERRING TO, UM, MR. MERLO, WHEN YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE ROOF FENCE, ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE TRIANGULAR END VENTS OR THE ROOF JACKS? I THINK THE, THE TRIANGULAR, THE ONES THAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THE ELEVATION ON THE, I BELIEVE THE EAST SIDE ELEVATION ON THE EAST AND THE WEST, RIGHT? YES. THE VERY TOP, THOSE TRIANGULAR PIECES. OKAY. WELL, NO, THE, NOT THE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TALKING ABOUT THESE, RIGHT? YEAH. UH, NO, UH, NOT, NOT THOSE MA'AM. UH, THE, THEY'RE THE ONES STICKING OUT ON THE SIDE. THE ROOF JACKS. YEAH, THE ROOF CHECKS, YEAH. OKAY. OKAY. PERFECT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, YOU HAD QUESTIONS? I'LL DEFER TO COMMISSIONER, UH, BROTHER COMMISSIONER HERE. I'M SLOWING THE BRAIN RIGHT NOW. COMMISSIONER, FISH, FISH. UM, I, I BELIEVE THE STIPULATION THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO, I, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU'RE ACTUALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH, YOU'RE REFERRING TO SOMETHING ELSE IN THAT. SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU CONSENT TO ALL OF THE STIPULATIONS HERE. YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THEREFORE, I, I MOVE FROM, CAN WE JUST CLARIFY THAT THE, THE ROOF FENCE ARE THAT STAFF ARE TALKING ABOUT, THEY WERE DIFFERENT THAN THE ONES HERE. STAFF IS TALKING ABOUT THE ROOF FENCE ON THE, THE THE TRIANGULAR BITS ON THE, ON THE SIDE. YES. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I, I'M SORRY. SO STAFF IS, UH, REFERRING TO THE ROOF FENCE OF THE, UM, OF THESE METAL ONES RIGHT HERE. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS, UH, RECEIVED AN ADMINISTRATIVE, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR REPAIRING KIND OF THE, UH, OF THE TRIANGULAR ROOF FENCE. SO YOUR STIPULATION THAT THE A CORRECT? I, I THINK, I THINK MAYBE YOU SHOULD CALL 'EM PLUMBING VENTS VERSUS DUTCH HIPS, RIGHT? THEY, THEY'RE DUTCH HIPS, BUT THEY'RE VENTED. OKAY. SIR, YOU WANNA REMOVE THEM, RIGHT? NUMBER SIX. YOU WANNA REMOVE THEM FROM THE ROOF, RETAIN THE HISTORIC ROOF VENTS? YES. WHAT IS STAFF REFERRING TO? I, I'M SORRY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE, I DON'T REMEMBER DISCUSSING THIS, BUT THE PLUMBING VENTS THAT WE SEE IN THIS PICTURE DO NOT NEED TO BE RETAINED. SO WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE A, A STIMULATION HISTORIC. THAT'S WHAT I WAS, OUR POINT WAS. SO I BELIEVE THAT WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE. YOU DON'T HAVE ISSUE, THERE'S NO ISSUE. SO THEREFORE I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS SECOND. YEAH. CAN WE NOT REMOVE STIPULATION SIX? MOTION AND A SECOND? YOU REMOVE STIPULATION SIX. STIPULATION SIX SHOULD REFER TO THE VENTS ON THE SIDE, IN WHICH CASE THEY ARE TO BE PRESERVED. OKAY. AND DON'T REFER TO PLUMBING VENTS, THE PLUMBING VENTS THAT ARE NON HISTORIC. SO I BELIEVE IT CAN REMAIN AS IS AND ISN'T A PROBLEM AND THERE IS NO DISAGREEMENT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? YOU HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? GIBBS? AYE. FISH? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. MOOKA? AYE. CARPENTER? AYE GROUP? AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. AND FETZER. [03:50:01] AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. OH, THANK YOU. YOU HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. GOOD NIGHT. AND BEFORE WE ADJOURN, I WANT TO SAY FOR THE RECORD THAT, UM, WE APPRECIATE COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S SERVICE TO THE COMMISSION, HIS LONG TERM SERVICE AND WISH HIM WELL. AND WE WELCOME COMMISSIONER HOLLAND TO THE COMMISSION AND LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, WORKING WITH HIM. YOU READY FOR 10? THE COMMISSION? WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND MR. CHAIR, COMMISSIONER FISH IS LEAVING TOO. HE'S TRYING, I THINK I'M ON CALL UNTIL THE UH, UNTIL THE NEW APPOINTMENT COMES THROUGH. OH, YOU'LL BE HERE FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS. ? NO. ONE, ONE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.