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JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY FOR OUR BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD MEETING FOR FEBRUARY 13TH, 2024.
I'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE CHAIR.
GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
TIME IS NOW 10 0 6, FEBRUARY 13TH, 2024.
MY NAME IS JACK TMORE AND I AM THE CHAIR OF THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS ADVISORY BOARD OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
UH, HEREBY CALL THIS MEETING INTO SESSION.
CAN WE HAVE OUR INTERPRETERS READ THE INTERPRETATION SERVICES AVAILABLE FOR THIS MEETING, PLEASE? THANK YOU.
[ Roll Call ]
COULD WE AS STEPH PLEASE CONDUCT THE ROLL CALL? LEWIS LES PRESENT, JEFF BYER.UH, I'D LIKE TO REMIND ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS TO USE THE MICROPHONE WHEN SPEAKING FOR THOSE WATCHING LIVE AT HOME OR THE RECORDING AT A LATER TIME.
[ Approval of Minutes ]
AT THIS TIME, HAS EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MEETING MINUTES OR THE FULL BOARD MEETING ON JANUARY 5TH, 2024? THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY.I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES UNLESS ANY OF THE, MY COLLEAGUES AND MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE HAVE, UH, MODIFICATIONS OR CHANGES TO THE MEETING MINUTES THAT WERE ISSUED.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE THE BOARD MEET MEETINGS, MINUTE MEETINGS.
UH, DO I HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
PRIOR TO THE MOVING ON TO THE INDIVIDUAL ITEMS, AGENDA ITEMS, IS THERE
[ Public Comments ]
ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC THAT HAS SIGNED UP TO TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT? YES.UM, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S ONLY ONE, SO YOU CAN, AT THE DISCRETION, GIVE THEM ON TIME MAIL OR ALLOW THEM, UH, TO SPEAK AS LONG AS THEY'D LIKE.
UH, YEAH, IF THERE'S ONLY ONE, I THINK WE COULD HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.
UH, SO THE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK IS ENTER TWO.
SO I AM GENTER TU AND I'M A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE DEAF COMMUNITY HERE IN SAN ANTONIO.
I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TODAY, AND I'D LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE FIRE CODE.
I DID REVIEW SOME OF THE INFORMATION AND THERE'S SOMETHING THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU GUYS.
I CALLED 2 1 1 FOR SOME RESOURCES SPECIFICALLY, AND IT WAS A STRUGGLE.
THEY KEPT CONNECTING ME TO OTHER OPERATORS AND THE PHONE CALL TOOK A WHILE.
SO THERE'S ONE THING I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST.
MAYBE THERE COULD BE AN AMENDMENT WE NEED FOR ANY NEW BUILDINGS.
WE SHOULD INCLUDE STROBE SMOKE AND FIRE ALARMS. YOU KNOW, I'VE OWNED A HOUSE SINCE 2017 NOW.
SO I'D LIKE THAT TO BE SOMETHING YOU GUYS CONSIDER ADDING SPECIFICALLY TO THE CODE THAT WE REQUIRE.
STROBE SMOKE ALARMS TO ANY NEW HOUSE OR A NEW BUILDING, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S AN APARTMENT, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, IF THERE WAS A FIRE, YOU KNOW, WE'D ALREADY HAVE THAT TECHNOLOGY THERE.
AND, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE WITH THEIR PRIVATE HOMES, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT YET.
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IRC NOW, I UNDERSTAND YOU GUYS MIGHT RECALL, IT'S STILL SLOW AND IT'S BEHIND THE IRC DOES HAVE DEAF MEMBERS.BUT I'M HERE, YOU KNOW, TAKING THE OPPORTUNITY TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO PREVENT SOMETHING HAPPEN.
YOU KNOW, THERE COULD BE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT YOU KNOW, ARE LOST OR LOSE THEIR LIVES OR INJURED BECAUSE OF A FIRE EMERGENCY.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU GUYS SHOULD MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO.
[ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items ]
LET'S GO AHEAD AND, UH, BEGIN WITH OUR INDIVIDUAL AGENDA ITEMS. THANK YOU, CHAIR.SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO IS PRESENTATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE APPEAL OF THE VOTING OFFICIALS DECISION TO NOT ACCEPT, NOT ACCEPT THE DRYER VENT INSTALLATION AS CODE COMPLIANT PER IMC 5 0 4 0.1 FOR THE PROJECT LOCATED AT 2 0 2 WEST LOOP 1604.
UH, THE APPEAL IS DOCUMENTED IN OUR BILL ESSAY UNDER THAT REFERENCE NUMBER, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO OUR DSD ENGINEER UNDER PLAN REVIEW RACHEL PARISH, UH, TO PRESENT.
FOR THOSE OF Y'ALL WHO DON'T KNOW ME, UM, AGAIN, RACHEL PARRISH.
I AM THE DSD ENGINEER OVER PLAN REVIEW.
THAT INCLUDES THE RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, THE SCHOOL TEAMS, UM, AND THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TEAMS. SO, HOW THIS PROJECT STARTED, I'M, I'M GOING TO GIVE Y'ALL THIS IN MY LAYMAN'S TERMS BECAUSE, UH, ABOUT A YEAR AGO, THIS IS HOW IT HAD TO BE EXPLAINED TO ME.
UM, AND SO FORGIVE ME IF I'M TALKING TO THE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS THAT ARE LOOKING AT ME, ASSUMING THAT I'M SAYING ALL OF THIS, LIKE, Y'ALL ARE DUMB.
THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO.
I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT IN LAYMAN'S TERMS FOR YOU GUYS.
SO THE BACK OF THE DRYER IN, IN YOUR HOME IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEXES, THEY HAVE THAT FLEXIBLE, UH, METAL TUBE THAT GOES TO THE WALL.
UM, IT'S CALLED A TRANSITIONAL VENT, IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.
I SAY THAT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I HAD TO LEARN WHAT IT WAS CALLED.
IT'S NOT CALLED A SCRUNCHIE SILVER THING THAT GOES FROM YOUR DRYER TO THE WALL.
UM, SO
SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE CUT SHORT.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO STRAIGHT FROM YOUR DRYER TO THE WALL AND NOT HAVE A LOT OF, UH, CURVES IN IT.
AND IT HELPS THE AIRFLOW GO, UH, FROM THE DRYER UP INTO THE WALL AND OUT THROUGH THE VENT ON THE OUTSIDE.
BUT FOR IT TO WORK PROPERLY TO GET ALL OF THIS LINT OUT, IT NEEDS THE AIRFLOW.
AND SO I'M SAYING ALL OF THIS BECAUSE THAT'S THE BASIS OF WHAT, UH, WE'RE MAKING OUR CODE DECISIONS ON.
UH, AND I KNOW THAT, UH, AT THE END OF THIS, WHEN, WHEN I FIRST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS, I WENT HOME AND I STARTED CHECKING MY DRYER AND
UM, SO I'M HOPING THAT Y'ALL REALIZE IT'S THE SAME, UH, LIFE SAFETY ISSUE THAT I DO.
UH, WE HAVE LT IN THE DRYER, OBVIOUSLY, AND IF Y'ALL ARE LIKE ME, YOU DON'T CLEAN THOSE LINT TRAPS NEARLY AS OFTEN AS YOU SHOULD.
UM, OR YOU HAVE A SPOUSE BECAUSE I KNOW IT WOULDN'T BE ANY OF Y'ALL WHO FORGET TO PUT THE LINT TRAP BACK IN.
YEAH, DEFINITELY NOT Y'ALL TOTALLY THE SPOUSE
SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THE LINT TRAVELS FROM THE DRYER INTO THESE VENTS, AND IF THERE'S NOT THE AIRFLOW THERE THAT LIN BUILDS UP.
AND NOW YOU HAVE THIS COMBUSTIBLE MATERIAL RIGHT NEXT TO A MACHINE WHOSE SOLE PURPOSE IS TO CREATE HEAT.
SO THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A FIRE HAZARD, UM, AND WE'RE TRYING TO PREVENT THIS.
SO THE CODE ACTUALLY SAYS, UM, FOR Y'ALL, A REMINDER, NOT THAT Y'ALL HAVEN'T BEEN ON THE BOARD, THAT Y'ALL'S CHARGE IS TO SEE IF WE ARE INTERPRETING THIS CODE CORRECTLY AND THAT WE ARE APPLYING THE CODE CORRECTLY.
SO THESE ARE THE TWO THINGS THAT I'M ADDRESSING ON THIS ONE, THOUGH I AM HAPPY TO ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS THAT COME ABOUT, UH, REGARDING THIS IN GENERAL.
SO THE BASIS OF THE APPEAL IS FROM THE 2021 IMC, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT THE CLOTHES DRYERS SHALL BE EXHAUSTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.
THE IMC REALLY LEAVES THIS FOR THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS BECAUSE EACH PRODUCT IS DIFFERENT.
AND CAN YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE FOR ME? UM, OH, THAT ONE ENDED UP TOO LATE.
SO THE PLANS THAT WE GOT, WE ORIGINALLY SAW THESE SMALL COMPARTMENTS.
I'VE HIGHLIGHTED THEM IN YELLOW WHERE THEY HAVE THE STACKABLE WASHER AND DRYERS.
SO WE FIRST NOTICED THAT THIS WAS KIND OF A CRAMPED SPACE, AND WE'RE GONNA CIRCLE THROUGH A HANDFUL OF PLANS HERE.
YOU'LL SEE THAT THEY'RE ALL VERY SIMILAR IN THIS ONE STRUCTURE, THOUGH THERE ARE MULTIPLE STRUCTURES IN THIS DEVELOPMENT.
THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR IS THE ONE THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING TODAY.
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SO THERE ARE, UH, THREE FLOORS.THEY ALL HAVE THIS VERY CONFINED SPACE FOR THIS STACKABLE WASHER AND DRYER UNITS.
AND THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS DO GO INTO NOT COLLAPSING THE DUCTING.
UM, DON'T USE THE EXCESSIVE EXHAUST LENGTH.
SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
IT NEEDS TO BE, UH, SHORTY SH JUST LONG ENOUGH TO REACH FROM THE DRYER TO THE WALL.
IT REALLY SHOULDN'T HAVE A LOT OF EXTRA LENGTH AND IT SHOULDN'T HAVE THESE BINS AND TURNS IN THEM BEFORE IT HITS THE WALL TO RESTRICT THE AIRFLOW.
IN ADDITION, IT SAYS DON'T CRUSH THE DUCT AGAINST THE WALL.
I FEEL LIKE THAT ONE'S PRETTY INTUITIVE.
UM, BUT IT DOES HAVE THAT IN THERE AS WELL.
SO THE EXHAUST LENGTH THAT ADDRESSES, UM, AGAIN, WHAT I HAD SAID EARLIER, THAT IT ACCUMULATES LINT AND CREATES A PO, A POTENTIAL FIRE HAZARD.
THESE ARE ALL EXCERPTS FROM THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS THEMSELVES.
UM, AND THEN IT ALSO GOES INTO THE SEPARATIONS OF TURNS OF AT LEAST FOUR FEET BETWEEN THE 90 DEGREES THAT THEY TALK ABOUT HERE.
AND THIS WILL COME UP LATER, BUT THIS DOES ALSO GIVE US, UM, SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AS TO THE INTENT ON NOT HAVING THESE BINS IN THESE, IN THESE TRANSITIONAL VENTS.
SO THESE ARE THE PHOTOS OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY INSTALLED THERE.
AND SO YOU CAN SEE THESE VENTS, THEY, THEY DROP DOWN, THEY PERFORM A 180 AND GO BACK UP.
AND THE REASON THAT THIS IS HAPPENING IS BECAUSE OF THIS CONFINED SPACE, THEY'RE HAVING TO MOVE THESE WASHER AND DRYER UNITS COMPLETELY OUT TO HOOK THESE UP.
AND OF COURSE, NOW YOU HAVE THIS, THIS VERY EXTENDED LENGTH OF THE, UH, TRANSITIONAL VENT, AND THEN THEY HAVE TO PUSH IT BACK IN.
AND THERE'S REALLY NOT A GOOD WAY, THE WAY THAT IT'S BUILT RIGHT NOW TO KEEP THESE FROM DOING EXACTLY THIS.
SO WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH SOME MORE PICTURES.
YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF THESE ARE CRUSHED AS WELL.
UM, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE THIS, THIS DROP WHERE IT CREATES THIS 180 DEGREE BEND AT THE BOTTOM.
AND THESE ARE ALL DIFFERENT UNITS.
SO WE DID, WE DID REQUEST, AND, AND I DO VERY MUCH APPRECIATE, UM, THE GENERAL CONTRACTORS FOR LETTING US COME AND TAKE THESE PICTURES FOR YOU GUYS, UM, BECAUSE IT DOES SHOW WHAT OUR CONCERNS ARE IN ALL OF THESE.
SO I DO ALSO WANNA GO THROUGH THE TIMELINE ON HOW ALL OF THIS HAPPENED, BECAUSE WE DID SEE THESE CRAMP SPACES IN THE PLAN REVIEW.
WE CONDUCTED A PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING DURING THIS PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING.
WE DID TELL THEM THAT WE SAW THIS AS A POTENTIAL ISSUE THAT NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED, THAT WE DON'T THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THESE FROM CREATING, FOR LACK OF A TECHNICAL TERM.
AND, UH, MY MECHANICAL ENGINEER OVER HERE CAN TELL ME WHAT THE ACTUAL TERM IS FROM CREATING A LINT TRAP IN THIS.
UM, AND SO IN MY, MY, YOU KNOW, LAYMAN TERMS, I'M, I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS IN LAYMAN'S TERMS, RIGHT? MY LINT TRAP IS THE SAME THING AS THAT SCREEN.
IT'S JUST GONNA ALL COLLECT AT THE BOTTOM THERE WHERE IT'S DOING THAT BEND.
AND SO WE'RE CALLING THIS A TRAP SITUATION WHERE IT'S TRAPPING ALL OF THESE ITEMS. SO THIS PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING HAPPENED IN JANUARY OF 2023 OVER A YEAR AGO, UM, WHERE I GOT MY FIRST LESSON IN ALL OF THIS.
AND SINCE THEN, UH, IN APRIL WE DID THE MECHANICAL ROUGHING.
YOU CAN SEE THE RESULT COMMENT ON THE SIDE WHERE WE DID ALSO SAY, AGAIN, THIS IS A PROBLEM.
WE THINK THIS IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE A PROBLEM.
AND WE NEED YOU GUYS TO ADDRESS THIS BEFORE WE WILL PASS THIS FINAL INSPECTION IN MAY, UH, MAY 12TH OF 23, WE THEN HAD A MEETING WITH THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR AGAIN TALKING ABOUT THIS SITUATION BECAUSE WE DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE INSTALLED WITHOUT CREATING THIS TRAP.
AND THE CONTRACTOR SAYS, NO, WE CAN DO IT.
WE'LL DO A MOCKUP AND WE WILL SHOW YOU.
UM, AND WHENEVER WE HIT THE NEXT SLIDE, YOU WILL SEE THE PHOTOS THAT WE GOT OF THIS MOCKUP THAT THEY DID.
SO THEY DID PROVIDE THE MOCK-UP PHOTOS ON SEPTEMBER 15TH, UM, AND SHOWED THAT THEY COULD INSTALL THIS WITHOUT CREATING THIS CONDITION.
AND SO WE SAID, OKAY, BUT JUST KNOW THAT IF THE TRAPS ARE HAPPENING, WE ARE NOT GOING TO PASS THIS FINAL.
SO ON THE NEXT ONE YOU CAN SEE THESE ARE THE PICTURES OF THE MOCK-UP THAT THEY GAVE US, WHICH WE SAID, OKAY, IF THEY CAN BE INSTALLED LIKE THIS, THEN WE ARE GOOD.
BUT WE MADE OUR CONCERNS KNOW, KNOWN THAT WE DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE POSSIBLE.
BUT IF Y'ALL ARE ABLE TO DO THIS, THIS WILL PASS.
SO ON DECEMBER 20TH, OUR MECHANICAL FA UH, FINAL WAS PARTIAL PASSED SINCE THEY DID HAVE THE TRAP CONDITIONS THAT WE SHOWED IN THE PHOTOS.
AND WE DID, UH, TALK TO THE, UH, THE APPEALER, UH, MR. ANTHONY ORLANDI, WHO I BELIEVE IS HERE TODAY.
I AM SORRY, I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY MET YOU IN PERSON.
SO, UM, AND THEN THEY DID ALSO
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SUBMIT A MECHANICAL ENGINEER'S LETTER FROM A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER, UM, WHICH I HAVE ON THE NEXT SLIDE.UM, AND THEN JANUARY 29TH WE RECEIVED THE APPEAL AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
SO THE ENGINEER LETTER THAT I DISCUSSED, UM, THEY SENT US AN EMAIL ON THE RIGHT FROM GENERAL ELECTRIC WHERE THEY SAID THAT BASED ON THE SPACE CONSTRAINTS, WHICH IS OUR CONCERN, UM, THE DRY VENTS WERE PROPERLY INSTALLED BASED ON HOW TIGHT THIS WAS.
UM, BUT AFTER THAT THEY DID ALSO GIVE US THE SNIPPET OF THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS WHERE, UH, ITEM THREE UH, SAYS THAT YOU ARE TO CUT OFF AND REMOVE THE EXCESS DUCT, UM, KEEP THE DUCT AS STRAIGHT AS POSSIBLE FOR THE MAXIMUM AIRFLOW.
SO THIS IS IN THE EMAIL FROM GE.
UH, THE MECHANICAL LETTER THAT WAS SENT, UM, DOES NOT ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY OR SAY THAT IT IS A LIFE SAFETY ISSUE.
UM, IT SAYS THAT, UH, THEY GOT AN EMAIL FROM GE.
UM, SO AT THIS POINT I AM, I AM STILL ON THE STANCE THAT WE ARE FOLLOWING THE MANUFACTURER'S GUIDELINES AS THEY WERE INTENDED TO BE INTERPRETED.
UM, THEY DREW US A PICTURE FOR THE LOVELY PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO, UM, DON'T NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND IT, TO SHOW US THAT THIS IS NOT THE INTENT OF IT.
AND WE HAVE SUGGESTIONS AT THIS POINT ON HOW THEY CAN COME INTO COMPLIANCE WITH THIS.
SO THE ENTIRE TIME WE HAVE BEEN DOING WITH SUGGESTING MAINTENANCE PANELS ON THE OTHER END OF THIS, SO THAT WHENEVER THEY GO AND THEY CUT THIS TWO SIDES, THEY CONNECT IT TO THE BACK OF THE DRYER, THEY MOVE IT BACK AND THEY CAN NOW REACH INTO THIS MAINTENANCE PANEL TO CONNECT IT TO THE WALL.
UM, AND THEN WE ACTUALLY FOUND, UM, HERE, LIKE TWO DAYS AGO, THESE MAGNETIC VENTS, WHICH ARE PRETTY NIFTY, UM, YOU CONNECT IT TO THE BACK OF THE DRYER, THEY'RE RELATIVELY STIFF.
YOU GET IT IN ROUGHLY THE RIGHT POSITION AND YOU HAVE THE MAGNETIC CONNECTOR THAT HOOKS ONTO THE WALL.
AND AS YOU BACK THE DRYER UP, IT GOES IN, IT SUCKS ITSELF TO, UH, TO THE WALL.
SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A PRETTY NIFTY ITEM.
UM, SO WE DO HAVE WAYS TO ADDRESS IT AT THIS POINT.
UM, BUT THAT IS ALL THAT I HAVE AND I'M WELCOME TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.
COULD YOU GO BACK TO THAT PICTURE REAL QUICK THAT SHOWS THE FLOOR PLAN? SURE.
AND, UH, REAL QUICK, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
I JUST WANNA READ INTO THE RECORD THAT WE DO HAVE A BOARD MEMBER, JEFF BEYER CAME IN AT 10 15.
WHAT'S THE VERTICAL DISTANCE? I, I HEARD YOU SAY THIS IS THREE FLOORS.
SO WHAT'S THE VERTICAL DISTANCE BETWEEN THE FIRST FLOOR WALL INLET AND WHERE THE DISCHARGE IS AND HOW MANY ELBOWS? SO, UM, I DON'T HAVE THE, I DON'T HAVE THAT ANSWER, BUT I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT, AT THE, UM, THE EFFECTIVE LENGTH OF IT.
WE HAVE THE CALCULATIONS FROM THE PLANTS.
IT'S 38 FEET, UM, AT THE MAXIMUM.
AND SO WITH THESE ADDITIONAL ONES, UM, MY BALLPARK ABOUT 10 FEET PER BEND, WHICH IS WHAT THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS HAVE ADDING PER 90 DEGREE ELBOW, UH, WE HAVE THE RIGHT AT THE DRYER AND THEN THE TWO 90 DEGREES TO MAKE UP THAT U AND SO THAT'S AN ADDITIONAL 30 FEET.
AND WE'RE RUNNING AT ABOUT 68 FEET NOW WITHOUT KNOWING THE EXACT MODEL NUMBER OF THE DRYER.
'CAUSE I SAW IN THE, THE MANUFACTURERS, AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO PUT THAT ON THE SCREEN FOR THE RECORD, BUT THE MANUFACTURER HAD FOUR DIFFERENT TABLES YES.
ON, ON HOW THEY WANTED THIS TO LOOK.
I MEAN, DO WE KNOW EXACTLY WHICH DRYER'S INSTALLED AS A, UH, WHAT'S THE EXIT CONDITION? UM, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT, IT TALKS ABOUT THE, AGAIN, DO THESE GO THROUGH THE ROOF OR DO THESE COME HORIZONTALLY OUT THE SIDE? OUT THE SIDE THROUGH THE SIDEWALL? MM-HMM.
I THINK THOSE ARE THREE THINGS WE KIND OF NEED TO KNOW OF WHAT'S, WHAT'S THAT LOOK LIKE COMING OUT? 'CAUSE I KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A TWO INCH HOOD OR I THINK IT HAD THE FLOPPY FOUR INCH.
RIGHT? SO IT IS A FOUR INCH HOOD IS, IS WHAT THE APPELLANT IS, IS SAYING.
UM, SO WE'LL BE IN THAT ONE PARTICULAR TABLE.
I ASSUME THIS IS NOT THE HIGH PRESSURE, SIR, THE TWO 50 FOOT LENGTH ONE, WHICH NEVER, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW EXISTED AT THE TIME, BUT, OKAY.
UM, IS IT, IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET THAT MANUFACTURER'S CHART AND PUT IT UP ON THE SCREEN FOR EVERYBODY TO SEE, JUST SO WE CAN ALL LOOK AT THAT 25, 26 AND 20? LET'S SCROLL UP A LITTLE BIT.
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YEAH.SO AS WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE RECOMMENDED, RECOMMENDED FOR EXHAUST LENGTH FOR NORMAL VENT MODELS.
AND WE ALREADY KNOW THERE'S AT LEAST THREE, AND I WOULD ASSUME THERE'S A FOURTH ELBOW AS IT GOES VERTICAL AND TURNS HORIZONTAL IN THE CEILING CAVITY.
SO WE'RE AT LEAST FOUR ELBOWS IN.
SO THAT GIVES YOU 25 FEET AT MOST.
DO WE KNOW HOW MANY FEET OF STRAIGHT DUCT? NOT EQUIVALENT LENGTH, BUT STRAIGHT DUCT IS ACTUALLY.
SO BY THE TIME THAT WE SAW IT, IT WAS COVERED.
BUT AGAIN, I HAVE, UM, ON THE PLANS, WHICH I CAN GET YOU THE TABLE WHERE THE ENGINEER ACTUALLY DID THE EFFECTIVE LENGTH CALCULATION FOR ALL OF THE DUCTED FROM THE WALL TO THE OUTLET.
UM, I, I, I REALLY DON'T WANT TO SEE EQUIVALENT LENGTH IF WE'RE RELYING ON A MANUFACTURER'S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.
THEY'RE SAYING YOU HAVE 25 FEET OF STRAIGHT DUCT.
HE DOES HAVE IT BREAK BROKEN DOWN.
I CAN GET YOU THE NUMBERS ON NINETIES AND EVERYTHING.
CAN, CAN YOU CLARIFY FOR ME, 'CAUSE I'M ALSO, UH, ONLY CAPABLE OF SPEAKING IN LAYMAN'S TERMS ON THIS
UM, IS THE ISSUE THE DUCT LENGTH THAT WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, OR IS THE ISSUE THE ACTUAL CONNECTION FROM THE DRYER ITSELF TO THE PORT IN THE, IN THE CLOSET THERE AND THAT IT'S LIKE DIPPED AND CRUSHED? IT'S THAT IT'S DIPPED AND CRUSHED.
UM, BUT I UNDERSTAND THE RE IF I'M, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE REASON THAT HE'S ASKING ABOUT THAT IS TO CONFIRM WHETHER OR NOT, UM, HE BELIEVES THAT THE AIRFLOW WOULD BE ENOUGH TO OVERCOME THAT.
SO WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M KIND OF LOOKING AT THIS, THE CRUSHING OF THE DUCT JUST CAN'T HAPPEN.
THAT'S, THAT'S A STRAIGHT UP, YOU JUST CAN'T DO IT.
THE LINT TRAP FROM A PRACTICAL CONCERN, AND I KNOW WE'VE GOT SOME FOLKS HERE THAT, THAT HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF APARTMENT COMPLEXES AS WELL.
SO I'D LOOK AT YOUR REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE WITH SOME OF THIS.
IF YOU'VE RUN INTO IT, THE, THE U BEND WHILE MM, IT'S NOT A CODE VIOLATION.
I DON'T, I'M UNAWARE OF THAT U BEND BEING A CODE VIOLATION.
HOWEVER, THOSE TWO EXTRA ELBOWS CAN PUSH US OUTSIDE OF WHAT THE, THE MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE.
AND THAT'S THE PIECE THAT THAT THAT I'M SITTING HERE LOOKING AT THIS GOING, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S WHERE I'M LOOKING FOR.
IF, IF WE VIOLATE THE MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATION ON THAT, THEN I JUST DON'T THINK THERE'S, THERE'S A, A WAY AROUND IT.
THE, THE, THE END USER WILL HAVE TO GET THAT, THOSE TWO EXTRA ELBOWS OUT OF THERE AND COMPLY WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S TABLE.
WELL THAT, THAT ACTUALLY LEADS TO MY QUESTION, YOU KNOW, IS IN CODE IN PRACTICE, THE CONNECTION FROM THE DRYER TO THE WALL COUNT IN THAT, IN THAT RUN AS PER CODE.
'CAUSE I'M ASSUMING THAT THE ROUGH IN WAS ALL MEASURED GENERALLY.
NO, BUT IN THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS IT DOES SPECIFICALLY ASK US TO COUNT IT IN THERE.
YEAH, YOU HAVE TO COUNT IT BECAUSE EXACTLY THESE SITUATIONS, YOU'LL, YOU'LL END UP WITH HORRIFIC RUNS OF FLEX DUCT THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH THREE ELBOWS IN IT.
SO I, THAT, THAT'S MY CONCERN IS THAT, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE AN INSTALLATION ERROR, YOU KNOW, THE WAY IT'S BEEN PRESSED IN THERE, THAT THAT'S EASILY FIXABLE.
BUT THE CONCERN IS, YOU KNOW, 20 YEARS FROM NOW WHEN YOU'RE ON OWNER NUMBER FIVE, ARE THEY STILL BEING SMASHED IN THERE AND, AND NO ONE'S LOOKING AT IT ANYMORE, YOU KNOW, SO IS IS THERE AN ACTUAL STRUCTURAL, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WRONG? AND I, I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING THAT ADDRESSED.
THE, THE OTHER PIECE THAT I'LL ADD ONTO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT DRYER MODELS HAVE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO THAT'S ALSO A LITTLE BIT IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD OF IF, YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW WHEN THIS DRYER, I HATE TO USE THE WORD BURNS UP, BUT FAILS THERE, I'LL USE THE BETTER WORD, WHEN IT FAILS, WHAT'S THE NEXT DRYER THAT'S BROUGHT IN? I MEAN, IS IT GONNA HAVE THE STATIC CAPABILITY TO, TO GO, YOU KNOW, 25 FEET WITH FOUR BINS? SO THERE'S A BIT OF WORRY FOR ME AND, AND ON THE END USERS, AGAIN, I CAN'T FORECAST THE FUTURE.
I CAN'T MAKE A STATEMENT ON THE FUTURE, BUT IT'S IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD.
SO, AND OUR CONCERN, OH, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.
OH, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY OUR CONCERN ON THE 180, I, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT THAT IT'S NOT DIRECTLY PROHIBITED.
UM, BUT THAT IS WHY I HAD CLIPPED THE SECTION FROM THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS WHERE IT ASKS FOR THE SEPARATION OF FOUR FEET, UM, BETWEEN THE BINS.
THEY ARE NOT ASSUMING THAT THIS 180 IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
THEY ALSO SAY FOR BEST PERFORMANCE, THEY DON'T SAY THAT SHALL NOT TRUE THEY DO.
SO AS A OPERATOR, UH, SORRY, MARK ROSS AND I AM ON THE, I AM AN ALTERNATE ON THE COMMITTEE.
SO AS AN OPERATOR, CAN WE GO BACK TO THE PICTURES? I AM ASSUMING IT'S HARD PIPE FROM WHERE THE FLEX CONNECTION ALL THE WAY OUT? YES.
SO THE, THE ONE PROBLEM IS, IS WHEN YOU PULL THE DRYER OUT AND PUSH IT BACK IN, THERE IS NO WAY IN THAT TIGHT CLOSET TO GET RID OF THE EXCESS BECAUSE IT'S JUST GONNA GO.
SO LOOKING BACK AT THE FLOOR PLAN, WHAT Y'ALL ARE SUGGESTING IS ON THE BACKSIDE OF THAT WALL, YOU
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PUT A PANEL THAT YOU BASICALLY CAN REACH YOUR HAND IN AND JUST MAKE THE CONNECTION TO THE PIPE.WHERE, WHERE IT JUST GOES AND FLOWS AND YOU CUT IT.
AND I THINK THAT IS A REASONABLE DEAL BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE MAINTENANCE GUY ON THE PROPERTY, ONCE THE DRYER COMES OUT AND GOES BACK IN, IS EVEN GONNA PAY ATTENTION TO THAT.
AND I, I MEAN, IT'S JUST, WELL, EVEN THE COMPANIES THAT DELIVER IT, I MEAN, I HAD A BRAND NEW DRYER INSTALLED.
THEY PUT THE FLEX DEAL, THE FLEX, YOU KNOW, I, I ACTUALLY LOOKED AND IT, YOU KNOW, I HAD TO CLIMB OVER THE WASHER AND DRYER, PULL THE WASHER OUT, YOU KNOW, TO GET IN THERE TO REDO IT, TO GET RID OF ALL THAT BECAUSE IT WASN'T DRYING.
AND SO ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS WITH THE DRYER IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LONGER THE RUN, THE MORE TIME IT TAKES TO DRY, WHICH MEANS THE MORE HEAT THAT BUILDS UP TO GET IT TO DRY, I'M NOT WOR IT'S LESS THAN 25 FEET FROM WHERE THE POINT IS GOING OUT TO THE BUILDING.
BECAUSE I THE FLOOR PLAN, THERE'S NO WAY THAT IT'S A MORE THAN A 25 FOOT RUN, WHICH WOULD GIVE YOU FOUR BENDS.
THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS, IS WHEN YOU PUSH THE DRYER BACK, THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BEHIND IT.
AND SO I THINK YOUR, YOUR SUGGESTION OF PUTTING AN ACCESS PANEL IN THE BACKSIDE IS REASONABLE TO COMPLY.
AND THAT'S WHAT MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE.
BECAUSE IF YOU GO BACK TO THE FLOOR PLANS, IT, IT APPEARS TO BE AN EMPTY WALL BEHIND ALL THE DRYERS.
UH, JUST JUST A CLARIFICATION.
THAT ONE MOCKUP THAT YOU SHOWED US, WAS THAT ACCEPTABLE? IF, IF IT HAD BEEN INSTALLED LIKE THAT? YES, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE I THINK TO, TO, UH, MARK'S COMMENT AND I, I THINK IF WE SAW VIDEO OF HIM CLIMBING BEHIND THAT DRYER, I BE SHOCKED.
AND THEN BY THE TIME HE GOT OUT OF THAT DRYER, 'CAUSE HE'S, HE'S NOT A, HE DOESN'T HAVE LONG SKINNY ARMS. IF HE HAD A WIMPY'S ARMS, I THINK
AND THIS IS A COMMON PROBLEM, AND I HAD A QUESTION WAS, ARE THESE ALL OWNED BY THE APPLICANT? ALL THE DRYERS? YES.
SO THE INSTALLATION OF THEM, EVEN WHEN THEY DO GO OUT, WILL BE AGAIN, PART OF THE APPLICANT'S DUTY TO REPLACE, REPAIR, ET CETERA, AND HOOK 'EM UP CORRECTLY? HOPEFULLY.
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW SOMEBODY GETS BACK THERE IN THAT LITTLE SPACE.
IT'S A COMMON PROBLEM AS A HOME BUILDER.
I GO BACK AND SOMEBODY PUTS IT IN.
IF YOU DON'T PUT THAT DRYER IN FIRST, AND THEN YOU'RE REACHING IN THERE WITH THIS FLEXIBLE THING, TRYING TO CONNECT IT TWO INCHES OVER THE CAP LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, AND THEN PUSH THAT DRYER IN THERE, THERE'S NO ROOM FOR ANYBODY TO GET BEHIND THESE.
I MEAN, THIS IS, THIS IS A REAL SPATIAL ISSUE.
UM, SO THERE'S A JACK, THERE'S ALSO A DOOR, SO YOU'RE NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO GET OVER TO SEE THE BACK.
SO I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE, HAS THE QUESTIONS GOTTA BE ANSWERED, HOW IS THAT MOCKUP GOING TO BE ACHIEVED? HOW? RIGHT.
AND THAT IS, THAT IS, DID YOU WANT COMMENT OUR CONCERN AS WELL, DID WOULD, I DON'T THINK THE APPLICANTS EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO COMMENT YET.
WERE WE GONNA LET THEM TALK IN IN A LITTLE BIT? THAT IS UP TO Y'ALL.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION? I WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH WHAT YOU SAID, JACK, ABOUT, UH, THE MOCKUP THAT WAS APPROVED AND OBVIOUSLY WASN'T INSTALLED AND THE ISSUE WAS RAISED.
SO TO FOLLOW UP ON WHAT, JACK, JUST TO BE CLEAR ON THIS, RACHEL, IF THEY INSTALLED IT PER THE MOCKUP, THE CITY WOULD REMOVE THEIR OBJECTIONS, CORRECT? YES.
HEY EVERYONE, UH, I'M ANTHONY ORLANDI, UH, VICE PRESIDENT CONSTRUCTION WITH LYNN DEVELOPMENT.
UH, WE ARE THE DEVELOPER AND WE ARE ALSO THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY.
AND WE MAIN, UM, WE PLAN TO MAINTAIN THE PROPERTY AS WELL MOVING FORWARD.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT JUST, UH, THE DEVELOPER THAT KIND OF RUNS AWAY AFTER THE FACT.
UM, RACHEL DID A GREAT JOB PRESENTING EVERYTHING.
UM, OBVIOUSLY I'VE SENT EVERYTHING TO YOU GUYS ALREADY AT THIS POINT.
I, I'M NOT PLANNING ON PRESENTING ANYTHING IN ADDITION TO THAT.
UM, MORE OR LESS, UH, JUST TO KIND OF GO THROUGH, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU GUYS MAY HAVE.
AND I DO WANT TO POINT OUT A COUPLE THINGS THAT RACHEL SAID, A COUPLE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS KIND OF MENTIONED.
UM, LET'S GO, UH, LET'S OPEN UP THE, LET'S OPEN UP THE IBC PICTURE RIGHT THERE.
SO THIS IS, I APOLOGIZE FOR THIS.
UM, BECAUSE THIS IS THE REAL REASON WHY WE'RE HERE GUYS,
[00:30:01]
IS TO DISCUSS ARE WE IN CODE VIOLATION, WHAT WE DID OUT THERE IN THE FIELD, WHAT OUR PERMIT DRAWINGS SHOW AND WHAT WE DID.ARE WE IN A CODE VIOLATION? HERE IT IS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S OUR INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE, UM, THAT WE ARE NOT, I DON'T LIKE TO DO THIS GUYS.
I'VE
I'VE NEVER HAD A, TO COME IN FRONT OF A, A PANEL LIKE THIS TO TRY TO PRESENT A CODE AND, AND ARGUE OUR CASE.
TYPICALLY, YOU WORK THROUGH IT, YOU TALK THROUGH IT WITH THE INSPECTORS, YOU GET IT HANDLED.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S HANDLED IN THE FIELD.
SO, UM, NOT SOMETHING I LOVE TO DO.
UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY WE'RE, WE'RE HERE.
UM, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS PEOPLE INTERPRETING WHAT THEY THINK THE CODE IS, RIGHT? SO YOU READ THROUGH GE AND READ THROUGH, YOU KNOW, 50 PAGES OF THEIR, THEIR MANUAL AND YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS WHAT I THINK IT'S SAYING, RIGHT? ON OUR END, WE HIRE GE TO NOT ONLY, UH, FURNISH ALL THE UH, UH, DRYERS AND WASHERS AND DRYERS, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE THE INSTALL.
SO GE USED THEIR, THEIR CERTIFIED INSTALLER TO INSTALL ALL THESE.
OKAY, I'M GONNA ASK FOR CLARIFICATION.
'CAUSE EARLIER I THINK A STATEMENT WAS MADE THAT THE DRYERS ARE GONNA BE OWNED BY THE TENANTS AND INSTALLED BY THE TENANTS.
CAN WE CLARIFY THAT? WE CAN CLEAR YEAH, I, I MISUNDERSTOOD.
SO THIS IS A, AN APARTMENT BUILDING THAT WE OWN AND WE WILL MANAGE.
SO WE DO OWN THE WASHERS AND DRYERS.
I MAY, I MISUNDERSTOOD THAT QUESTION.
SO YOU, YOU WILL BE IN, IN ESSENCE, IN FULL CONTROL OF ANY REPLACEMENT DRYERS, ANY REPLACEMENT FIXTURES, ALL THEIR INSTALLATIONS THAT IS ON YOU AS THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING, AS THE OWNER, CORRECT? YES.
AND AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY THEY'RE GOING IN NOW, RIGHT? IF IT WAS A TENANT, WE WOULD DO OUR FINAL INSPECTIONS.
THEY WOULDN'T, THE WASHER AND DRYER WOULDN'T BE IN THERE.
WE WOULD'VE GOT A FINAL, NO ONE WOULD EVEN KNOW, RIGHT? SO WE'RE TRYING TO BE PROACTIVE, INSTALL 'EM, YOU KNOW, TAKE IT OFF THE TENANT AS A CONSTRUCTION PROFESSIONAL AS DEVELOPERS AND INSTALL 'EM.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST JUMPING BACK REAL QUICK TO WHAT I WAS SAYING IS, IS GE FURNISH INSTALLED WITH THEIR OWN CERTIFIED INSTALLERS? RIGHT? SO THIS ISN'T, YOU KNOW, A GUY OFF THE BACK OF THE TRUCK THAT JUST CAME AND INSTALLED 'EM.
UM, AND, AND ON TOP OF THAT, WE HAD GE BACK OUT TO REVIEW THEIR INSTALL.
THE, UM, UH, THE GENTLEMAN THAT'S IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE SOUTHEAST BRACKET FOR GE, INCLUDING ALL OF TEXAS, UM, REPRESENTING ABOUT 20,000 UNITS CURRENTLY, PROBABLY HALF OF 'EM WITH THE SAME CONDITION, CAME TO THE SITE, REVIEWED OUR SITE, AND SAID, YOU GUYS ARE IN COMPLIANT WITH WHAT OUR GUIDELINES SAY, THE GE MANUAL.
WHAT'S IN THERE? YOU GUYS ARE NOT VIOLATING OUR MANUAL AND OUR GUIDELINES.
SO GE PUT TOGETHER THE, THE LETTER, UM, THEY SENT IT OVER AT, AT THIS POINT, THIS CODE RIGHT HERE SAYS IT.
UM, DRYERS ARE, ARE, ARE TO BE INSTALLED PER MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.
SO THAT TAKES THE ONUS OFF OF THE ARCHITECT.
THAT TAKES THE ONUS OFF OF THE ENGINEER TO A DEGREE.
THAT'S WHY THE ENGINEER SENT THE RESPONSE.
WE'RE DEFERRING TO GE BECAUSE THAT CODE SAYS YOU DEFER TO THE MANUFACTURER.
THE MANUFACTURER GAVE US A LETTER THAT SAID WE ARE IN COMPLIANT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO THE FLEX DUCT, YOU HAVE TO BE EIGHT FOOT OR LESS.
THAT'S HOW THE CODE READS, RIGHT? THE FLEX DUCT CAN BE EIGHT FOOT OR LESS.
NOW YOU CAN INTERPRET THE DIPS AND DIVES AND ALL THAT STUFF.
UM, BUT AS LONG AS YOU'RE WITHIN EIGHT FEET, WHICH EVERYTHING COMES IN STOCK LENGTHS OF EIGHT FEET.
SO YOU CAN'T REALLY, YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU'RE TETHERING ONTO IT, YOU CAN'T, CAN'T BE TOO MUCH, UH, GREATER THAN EIGHT.
UM, AND THEN YOU CAN'T CRUSH IT.
YOU CAN'T COLLAPSE IT, YOU CAN'T SMASH IT, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT STUFF, RIGHT? AND THERE'S WAYS TO COMBAT THAT BY PUTTING STOPS BEHIND THE WASHER AND DRYER.
SO YOU CAN'T PUSH IT BACK MORE THAN FIVE OR SIX FEET.
SO IN THE FUTURE, I KNOW THAT WAS A CONCERN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU PUT A STOP ON THE FLOOR.
SO WHEN YOU'RE PUSHING THE WASHER AND DRYER IN, YOU CAN'T PUSH IT BACK FAR ENOUGH TO SMASH IT.
UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT OPTIONS.
I I HADN'T HEARD THE, UM, THE MAGNETIC DUCT ONE.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE A, IT MIGHT BE A VIABLE OPTION.
UM, WE'VE SENT THE, THE LONG RANGE VENT TO, UH, THE TEAM, AND THAT WAS REJECTED.
THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME DRYER, UH, WITH A, WITH A STRONGER FAN.
SO THE FAN ALLOWS IT TO PUSH, UH, LINT OUT FURTHER, UM, TO THE TUNE OF, YOU KNOW, PLUS OR MINUS A HUNDRED FEET, SUBTRACT THE BENDS AND WHATNOT.
UM, THAT WE THOUGHT WAS A VIABLE SOLUTION.
IT WAS KIND OF WORKING WITH YOU GUYS AND TRYING TO COME OR WORKING WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, TRYING TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT WAS REJECTED.
SO, UM, AT THIS POINT WE'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T THINK WE'RE WITHIN, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE, WE DON'T THINK WE'RE VIOLATING ANY CODE.
UH, WE HAVE 360 APARTMENTS AT THIS BUILDING, SO I KNOW WE PUT A FLOOR PLAN UP THAT SHOWED 24.
SO WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT DOING, YOU KNOW, ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE TO DO.
IT'S THE MULTIPLIER, YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND DOLLARS HERE
[00:35:01]
BY 360, DO THE MATH.SO I HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU ON, ALL OF Y'ALL HAVE APARTMENT COMPLEXES ALL OVER THE CITY, CORRECT? MM-HMM,
I DON'T KNOW THAT, UM, ARE, I'M, I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE NEW BUILDS WE DO, UM, SOME OF THE ONES THAT WE OWN THAT MAYBE WE, WE PURCHASED THROUGH AN ACQUISITION, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
I WOULD SAY WE DO, BUT I CAN'T ANSWER THAT.
UH, LET ME, UH, UH, JUST COMMENT BECAUSE IN THE VALUATION PROCESS, AND EVERYBODY HERE ON THIS BOARD HAS, OR COMMITTEE HAS THEIR OWN SORT OF INTERPRETATION.
UH, I I HOPE YOU DO REALIZE THAT IF THERE WAS AN ISSUE AT THIS COMPLEX, UH, THE FIRST PERSON'S GONNA BE CALLED, UH, IF THERE'S AN ISSUE, A FIRE OR A PROBLEM, UH, THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO DEVELOPMENT SERVICE WILL BE THE FIRST CALL.
SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT IT DOESN'T VIOLATE THE CODES, THE PART THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN PROVEN IS DRYER EXHAUST SYSTEMS SHALL CONVEY THE MOISTURE AND ANY PRODUCTS OF COMBUSTION TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT IS THE INTERPRETIVE PROVISION THAT ALLOWS THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES STEP IN AND MAKE THE COMMENT THEY DID.
UH, COULD YOU RESTATE WHAT IT, WHAT UH, WELL, MY, MY POINT IS, IS THAT, UM, YOU SAID THAT IT DOESN'T VIOLATE CODE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES HAS MADE AN INTERPRETATION AND BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, TO WHEN ANYTHING GOES WRONG IN THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT IN THE CITY.
THE FIRST PERSON THEY GO TO, AND YOU'LL SEE MIKE SHANNON ON THE TV ASKING THEM WHY IS THIS AND EVERYTHING, BUT YOU'RE QUESTIONING THAT THEY'RE, YOU'RE NOT VIOLATING A CODE.
AND THE INTERPRETATIVE OF SENTENCE TO ME IN MY MIND, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE REST OF THE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, IS DRYER EXHAUST SYSTEMS SHALL CONVEY THE MOISTURE AND ANY PRODUCTS OF COMBUSTION TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
THE REVIEW PARTY IN THAT CASE IS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES.
AND IN THEIR INTERPRETATION, YOU APPROVED A MOCKUP.
AND I WAS DISAPPOINTED IN THE PRE-CONSTRUCTION MEETING ON THE 19TH, JANUARY 19TH, AND THEN A FOLLOW UP ON 4 25 AND THEN ANOTHER FOLLOW UP ON FIVE 12, AND YOU BUILT A MOCKUP AND YOU APPROVED IT.
BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WAS BUILT.
RIGHT? SO I PERSONALLY, IN MY PARTICULAR OPINION IS, IS THAT IN YOUR INTERPRETATION, YOU HAVEN'T VIOLATED ANY BUILDING CODES, BUT THAT LANGUAGE IN 5 0 4 0.1 ALLOWS THE CITY TO MAKE THAT INTERPRETATION.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S A GUIDELINE, RIGHT? THAT'S A, THAT'S A GUIDE THAT YOU'RE READING THE GUIDELINES FROM GE AND THE MANUFACTURER HAS STATED, WE HAVEN'T VIOLATED OR WE'RE WE'RE IN COMPLIANT WITH THEIR GUIDELINES.
WELL, I DON'T KNOW, IT'S JUST, IT'S KIND OF LIKE A, AND I AGREE WITH THE MOCKUP.
NO, I, I AGREE WITH THE MOCKUP.
WE HAD THE MOCKUP THAT WAS A PERFECT WORLD.
IT, IT'S, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE CONFINED TO THE SPACE THAT WE HAVE IN THESE CLOSETS, WHICH AGAIN, BASED ON THE GAPS, IF YOU READ THE WHOLE GE MANUAL, WE'RE WITHIN THEIR GUIDELINES.
THAT, THAT, THAT'S THE, THE REAL CRUX OF IT IS IT IS A REAL TIGHT CLOSET.
I I, I'D LIKE TO JUMP BACK IN BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS.
CAN WE BRING UP THOSE, THOSE CALCULATIONS? AND I WANT TO CONFIRM WE'RE UNDER THE 2021 IBC OR IMC, RIGHT? OUR PERMIT WAS 2018 IBC, BUT OKAY.
THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.
THAT'S WHY I NEED TO KNOW THIS.
I NEED TO KNOW EXACTLY, BECAUSE 2018 HAS DIFFERENT, I THINK HAS DIFFERENT PROVISIONS THAN 2021 FOR DRIVER EXHAUST.
I'M, I'M CONFIRMING NOW I THOUGHT WE WERE 21, BUT I'LL DOUBLE CHECK THAT.
THE PERMIT DRAWINGS, UM, FIRST PAGE OF THE PERMIT DRAWING IS 2018.
THE, THE REASON I BRING IT UP IS IF WE BRING, YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING AT THE DRYER VENT CALCULATIONS, OVERHEAD ENGINEERED EQUIVALENT.
AND I'M SEEING CAN, CAN YOU PAN DOWN JUST A LITTLE BIT? I'D LIKE TO KIND OF, UH, SORRY.
THE OTHER DIRECTION AND, AND I'M JUST, I'M SEEING SIX INCH DIAMETER ROUND, I'M SEEING DUCT TRANSITION.
'CAUSE I BELIEVE 21 SAYS EVERYTHING'S GOTTA BE FOUR INCH AND FOUR INCH ONLY.
AND 18, I THINK ALLOWED DIFFERENT SIZES.
AND, AND ONE THING TOO, I KNOW YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER, GREG, SORRY, SORRY, SORRY.
CAN WE GET A, A COPY OF THE 2018 CODE AND PUT UP ON THE SCREEN? 'CAUSE I DID NOT REVIEW THE 2018 CODE EXPLICITLY.
JACK GE DID GE INSPECT EVERY UNIT WHEN THEY WROTE THE LETTER? UH, GE WHEN ON THEIR FOLLOWUP, INSPECT, FOLLOW UP INSPECT, YOU SAID YOU MADE THE POINT THAT GE INSPECTED THE INSTALLATIONS AND CERTIFIED THEY ALL MET THE COAT.
SO DID THEY, THE PICTURES THAT WE SAW HAD CRUSHED VENTS, HAD WEIRD CONFIGURATIONS TO
[00:40:01]
GET TO THE VENT.SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT GE INSPECTED 300 UNITS WORTH OF UH, NO, WE DON'T HAVE 300 UNITS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE ONE BUILDING THAT'S AVAILABLE AND THEY INSPECTED EVERY SINGLE UNIT IN THAT BUILDING.
THEY INSPECTED, UH, I WOULD SAY THE UNITS THAT WERE OPEN WITHOUT 10.
SO THEY DID NOT, AND THEY, THEY CAN'T CERTIFY THAT THEY ALL ARE INSTALLED PROPERLY AND MEET THEIR MANUFACTURERS.
THAT, AND NO, THEY, THEY DID A, A PERCENTAGE OF 'EM ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING I WOULD TELL YOU IS THAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS.
WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A LONG-TERM SOLUTION BECAUSE, UH, THE LEND COMPANY AT SOME POINT IN THE NEXT THREE TO FIVE YEARS IS GOING TO SELL THIS PROPERTY TO SOME OTHER OPERATOR WHO MAY CHOOSE TO TAKE ALL THE DRYERS OUT AS THEY ARE THERE.
AND THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WAY TO HOOK THE DRYER UP GOING FORWARD THAT MEETS THE CODE.
AND I WOULD TELL YOU, A BEND DOWN AND BACK UP IS NOT GOOD BECAUSE THAT IS A BOER TRAP AND BASICALLY YOU'RE GONNA, IT'S LIKE A STILL CAN YOU SCROLL, SCROLL BACK.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S GOOD, UH, MIKE, BUT YOU'RE INTERPRETING YEAH.
MIKE HAD A QUESTION OVER HERE INTERPRETING THE CODE AGAIN.
SO, UM, BEFORE I ASK MY QUESTION, I JUST WANT TO, ROBERT, I I KIND OF RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH THE COMMENT YOU MADE.
I THINK THAT THIS GENTLEMAN HERE PROBABLY CARES MORE THAN ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT A FIRE HAPPENS AS, AS AN APARTMENT OPERATOR.
I, I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT NONE OF US WANNA GO HOME AND, AND FEEL RESPONSIBLE FOR, FOR A FIRE.
BUT I GET THE POINT YOU'RE MAKING THAT THEY, THEY'RE THE PROVEN AUTHORITY.
BUT LET'S NOT, LET'S NOT FORGET, DON'T FORGET, MIKE, I DIDN'T SAY HE DIDN'T CARE ALL, AS I SAID, THE RESPONSIBILITY, IF THERE'S AN ISSUE, IT'S ALWAYS GONNA COME.
SO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES HAS SOME GOVERNING JURISDICTIONAL AUTHORITY TO REVIEW THESE CONDITIONS.
UM, BUT I DID, I DID, I DID WANNA CLARIFY THAT.
SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS THIS, UM, HOW OF ALL THE OTHER ONES THAT YOU'VE DONE, I MEAN, I LOOK AT THAT INSTALLATION OF A DRYER DUCT AND, UM, I I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE, I MEAN, HOW MANY, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF DRYERS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO MM-HMM.
AND, AND HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THE ACTUAL CODE HERE? SO FOR THE MOST PART, UNLESS THE, UH, DEVELOPER ACTUALLY OWNS THE WASHER DRYERS, LIKE IN THIS CASE, UM, THEY ARE NOT INSTALLED AT THE FINAL.
UM, SO WE DON'T GENERALLY SEE THAT TRANSITION DUCT.
WHENEVER WE DO NOW, WE INSPECT FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE.
THE DRYERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE INSTALLED AT FINAL.
UH, JUST TO ADD ON TO THAT AS A, AS A HOME BUILDER AND PUTTING IN HOME, WE NEVER, THE, THE HOMEOWNER BRINGS GENERALLY, AND THIS, I KNOW THIS IS A COMMERCIAL TYPE SITUATION, BUT A HOMEOWNER BRINGS THE DRYER.
THE ONLY TIME WE'D EVER SEE IS WE CAME BACK AND THE HITS HAD SOME KIND OF AN ISSUE.
AND THE CITY INSPECTORS ALWAYS INSPECT ALL THE ROUGH ENDS THAT ARE, WHICH Y'ALL DO.
IT'S NOW PART OF, IN THAT VERBIAGE IT SAYS THE SYSTEM.
AND BECAUSE THAT APPLIANCE IS ACTUALLY CONNECTED, THE, PROBABLY THE ONLY OTHER ONE AND BEING IN THIS FUND INDUSTRY IS THESE INSTALLERS.
UM, I DON'T WANNA SAY THEY DON'T CARE, BUT YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU CERTIFY EVERY SINGLE ONE AND ACTUALLY GO DOWN THERE AND LOOK AT IT, MOST OF 'EM ARE PROBABLY GONNA LOOK LIKE THAT CRAPPY INSTALL.
SO JUMP JUMPING BACK OVER TO THE, THE ACTUAL CODE AND INSTALLATION FIVE, THIS IS 20 18, 5 0 4 8 1 EXHAUST DUCT SHALL HAVE A SMOOTH INTERIOR FINISH AND SHALL BE CONSTRUCTED OF METAL, NOT LESS THAN A SIX 16,000 THICKNESS.
THE EXHAUST DUCT SIZE SHALL BE FOUR INCHES NOMINAL IN DIAMETER.
SO HOW DID WE GET PAST THE INITIAL PLAN REVIEW WHERE THEY'VE GOT SIX INCH DIAMETER? UH, I, I, I ALMOST, IS THERE A SQUARE IN HERE TOO? I MEAN, I SCROLL UP SO WE CAN SEE THE, THE DUCT RUN, BUT THE, THE, SO WE GOT, WE GOT FOUR INCH, WE GOT SIX INCH, FIVE INCH IN TRUSS SPACE.
HOW, HOW, HOW DID WE GET ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CITY REVIEW WITH DIFFERING DUCK SIZES THAT VIOLATE CODE? I HEARD WHAT THEY DID.
UH, I, I'M HONESTLY, I'M NOT, I'LL SAY THAT'S OPEN TO BOTH PARTIES, THE CITY AND THE DEVELOPER.
THAT ONE I'M HONESTLY NOT FAMILIAR WITH.
UM, I DIDN'T LOOK INTO THAT ONE BEFORE THIS.
UM, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE IT WAS OVERLOOKED.
IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IT WAS COMMUNICATED AND, UH, BECAUSE IT COMES THROUGH THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING TEAM AND THEY'RE BOTH THE PLAN REVIEWERS AND INSPECTORS, AS LONG AS EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THEY CAN RED LINE PLANS, UM, BEFORE APPROVAL AND THEY'LL LET THEM KNOW SO THAT THEY CAN GO OUT AND DO THE INSPECTION SINCE THEY'RE ALREADY AWARE OF THE ISSUE.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE.
[00:45:01]
UM, BUT I CAN LOOK INTO IT AS WELL.I I, I'M GONNA KIND OF PUT SOME OTHER QUESTIONS ON HERE.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY WILL HAVE CONSTRUCTION PHOTOS THAT, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR, TO, TO EVERYBODY'S KIND OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HAVING A QUOTE UNQUOTE LOW SPOT OR A U BEND.
IF THAT FIVE INCH TO FOUR INCH TRANSITION, OR FOUR INCH TO SIX INCH TRANSITION IS A CONCENTRIC REDUCING IE THAT IT OPENS UP ON BOTH SIDES.
THE CENTER LINE OF THE, OF THE DUCTS DON'T CHANGE.
BUT IF WE GO TO AN ECCENTRIC WHERE AT LEAST THE BOTTOM OF THE DUCT IS THE ELEVATION OR A, A PLANE DOESN'T CHANGE THAT WAY, WE, WE'D HAVE THE LINT THAT FALLS TO THE BOTTOM WOULD CONTINUE TO BLOW OUT OVER THAT 25 FOOT HORIZONTAL RUN AND EVENTUALLY EXIT THE SPACE.
IF IT'S A CONCENTRIC REDUCER, THAT'S GONNA BE A LOW SPOT AND TRAP EVERYTHING THE ENTIRE TIME.
BUT, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S A GOSH, I, I, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA LOOK TO THE CITY ON, ON A PIECE OF THIS OF GOING, YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER CODE VIOLATION IN HERE.
SO I I I, I BROUGHT UP THIS PHOTO JUST SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE A ROUGH IN, UH, PHOTO OF A ANOTHER UNIT THAT'S OBVIOUSLY IN PROGRESS.
WE HAVEN'T STARTED DRYWALL ON IT.
UH, TO GIVE YOU KIND OF AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE HAVE, I, I DON'T A HUNDRED PERCENT KNOW THE SIZE THROUGHOUT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S FOUR INCHES ALL THE WAY OUT.
I JUST CONFIRMED WITH THE INSPECTOR, HE DOES REMEMBER IT.
HE SAYS IT'S FOUR ALL THE WAY OUT.
SO THEN THE EQUIVALENT CALCULATIONS THAT WERE PRESENTED ON SCREEN ARE NO LONGER.
UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I GET SEEING THAT AS A SIX INCH AND THEN A TRANSITION BACK AND IT, THE TRANSITION FITTING SHOWN ON THESE PLANS IS A CONCENTRIC REDUCER FROM SIX TO FOUR AND FROM FIVE TO FOUR.
UM, BUT, OR IS HOW, HOW IS THAT, AND NOW I'M SEEING ONE THAT SAYS SEVEN 70 FEET OR LESS.
I MEAN, IS THAT AN ACTUAL INSTALLED INSTALLATION? NO, NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT, I DON'T THINK THAT, UH, THAT'S JUST THE, UH, GENERAL DETAIL IN THE, IN THE DRAWINGS ARE GONNA SHOW YOU THE ACTUAL FLOOR PLAN OF THE DRAWINGS WHERE IT SHOWS EVENT GOING ACROSS AND OUT ARE GONNA GIVE YOU THE ACTUAL RUN.
YEAH, BECAUSE I SEE HERE IN THE BOTTOM LEFT IT SAYS DRYER DUCT CALCULATIONS AND YOU KNOW, I SEE MI MR. CHAIR.
MY, MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE, THEY'VE ALREADY MADE A DECISION THAT EVERYTHING ELSE MEETS THE CODE AND THEY'RE NOT APPEALING THAT PORTION OF IT.
THAT'S, I DISAGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT.
GERMANE TO OUR DISCUSSION OR DISCUSSION IS HOW DO YOU HOOK UP TO THIS DEAL? THEY PROVIDED A, HOW YOU DO IT.
SO WHAT IS ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE, WHAT'S IN THE ROOM DIRECTLY BEHIND THAT BOX? UH, THAT'S A BATHROOM, BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE DIFFERENT LAYOUTS, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE, YOU COULD BE IN A BATHROOM, IN, IN, IN ONE ROOM.
YOU COULD BE ON AN OUTSIDE WALL IN ANOTHER, YOU COULD BE IN A SHOWER.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF, WE GOT ELECTRICAL PANELS.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON.
AND, AND I TO, I THINK WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH THAT IS PUT AN ACCESS PANEL, RIGHT? THAT'S AN EASY, BUT YOU'RE STILL DEALING WITH A SMALL SPACE.
SO SOMEBODY'S STILL GOTTA GET THEIR HANDS IN THERE TO TRY TO MAKE CONNECTIONS.
AND WE'RE WORKING, WORKING AROUND A LOT OF MEPS THAT ARE IN THOSE WALLS.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S AND, AND THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF COSTS.
SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN VI IF WE'RE IN VIOLATION OF A CODE.
WE HAVE A QUESTION REAL QUICK HERE.
I WANNA CONFIRM THAT, UM, THEY'RE UP AGAINST THE LIVING ROOM OR THE BATHROOM.
UM, NONE OF THEM ARE, UH, UP AGAINST EXTERIOR WALLS IN THIS BUILDING.
I THINK THERE'S OTHER BUILDINGS IN THIS BUILDING, CORRECT? IN THIS BUILDING, IN THIS QUESTION.
UH, THIS IS JUST FOR GENERAL FUTURE OTHER, UH, INSTALLS LIKE THIS.
UM, AND IT'S PROBABLY TO THE CITY.
UM, THE QUESTION IS WHAT IF THE DEVELOPER CHOOSES TO HAVE THE FINAL INSPECTION THEN LATER BRING IN ALL THE APPLIANCES? SO THE REASON THIS CASE IS UNIQUE IS BECAUSE WE DID SEE AHEAD OF TIME THE SPACE CONSTRAINT, AND WE DID TELL THEM IT WAS GOING TO BE A SPACE CONSTRAINT.
AND SO IN THE CASE THAT THEY DIDN'T DO THE INSTALL, WE WOULD CIRCLE BACK AND SAY, OKAY, WELL HOW ARE YOU PLANNING ON INSTALLING IT? UM, SO PART OF THE REASON WHY WE ALLOWED THE MOCK-UP TO GO THROUGH IS BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY HAD INSTALLERS THAT COULD DO IT THIS WAY.
NOW, I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT, IF THEY HAD NOT INSTALLED IT AT THAT POINT, UM, WE MAY HAVE ASKED FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, BUT WE DID KNOW WE WERE GOING TO SEE THIS AT THE FINAL.
AND JUST TO, JUST TO JUMP IN THERE TOO, REAL
[00:50:01]
QUICK, JUST REPRESENTING MY GENERAL CONTRACTOR AS WELL, WHO I WASN'T PRIVY TO THOSE ORIGINAL MEETINGS ON SITE WITH THE MOCK-UPS.SO I CAN'T SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THOSE, BUT JUST TO, UM, TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, STICK UP FOR THEM A LITTLE BIT.
THEIR, THEIR WHOLE STANCE WAS WE CAN INSTALL IT PER MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS, RIGHT? SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY LOOKED AT IT ORIGINALLY AND SAID, YOU KNOW, THE MOCKUP DOESN'T, IT DIDN'T WORK.
WE, WE KNOW THAT I, I'VE STATED THAT YOU CAN'T GET UP AND OVER, YOU CAN'T GET AROUND, YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH IT.
UM, SO THE MOCKUP, IT, IT WAS A, IT WAS A FAILED MOCKUP, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.
UM, BUT THEIR, THEIR WHOLE STANCE HAS BEEN, AND, AND I THINK THEY'VE STATED TO THE INSPECTORS ON SITE, WE CAN IN, WE CAN GET IT INSTALLED PER MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE FEEL LIKE WE DID.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
I DO WANNA CLARIFY ON THAT BECAUSE I, I WAS PART OF THE CONVERSATIONS WITH THAT GENERAL CONTRACTOR.
UM, THEY SAID THEY COULD INSTALL IT WITHOUT HAVING THAT BEND ON THE BOTTOM.
THEY DIDN'T SAY PER MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.
THEY WERE CLEAR ABOUT THEY CAN INSTALL IT SO THAT IT DOES NOT CREATE THAT TRAP THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.
CAN, CAN WE SEE THOSE PICTURES AGAIN? SURE.
IT'S A DRYER, IT'S A TOP DRYER.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE CONCERN, GUYS.
'CAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MANUAL, IT'S A PERFECT SCENARIO, RIGHT? THE DRYER'S SITTING ON THE GROUND, YOU CAN GET BEHIND IT.
WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH A PERFECT SCENARIO.
WE'RE DEALING WITH A STACKED WASHER AND DRYER.
SO THE, THE DRY, CAN YOU PUT THE MOCKUP BACK UP? CAN WE LOOK AT THE MOCKUP? AND THEN ALSO, UM, THE GE MANUFACTURERS, I KNOW HOW THEY WORK IS, HOW CAN HE SEE IT? I MEAN, I, WE CAN'T SEE IT.
HOW DO YOU INSPECT SOMETHING HE CAN'T SEE, BUT HE SAYS EVERYTHING'S GOOD.
UH, THE SAME WAY THAT THE, THE CITY DID, RIGHT? WE, WE TRIED TO PUSH THE WASHER AND DRYER OVER AS FAR AS WE CAN.
YOU'RE TAKING PICTURES, RIGHT? YOU'RE, YOU'VE GOT A MIRROR, YOU'RE USING A MIRROR, YOU KNOW, CAN WE SEE THOSE? THERE'S NOT A, THERE'S NOT A, THERE'S NOT A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO, CAN WE SEE THOSE PICTURES AGAIN WITH THE APPLIANCES? UH, YEAH.
AND I ACTUALLY HAVE, I ACTUALLY HAVE PICTURES OF THE, THE ACTUAL APPLIANCES THEMSELVES IF YOU WANNA NO, THE ACTUAL, THE, THE PICTURES OF THEM INSTALLED THAT THEY TOOK, THAT THE CITY TOOK, THAT YOU WERE SHOWING US WHILE AGO.
CHAIRMAN CAN I ASKS RACHEL SHOW WE'RE DOING THAT.
I DO HAVE A QUESTION AND SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID, UH, THE MOCKUP WAS, UH, SUBMITTED TO THE CITY.
THE QUESTION I HAVE IS WHEN YOU REALIZED IT DIDN'T WORK, DID YOU REACH BACK OUT TO THE CITY AND SAY, HEY, THE MOCK-UP THAT YOU APPROVED DIDN'T WORK, SO WE'VE HAD TO DO SOMETHING ELSE? OR DID YOU JUST WAIT TILL THEY RESPONDED? NO, I THINK THAT, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW FROM ITALIAN PERSPECTIVE 'CAUSE THAT'S ALL HANDLED THROUGH THE GENERAL, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE REALIZED IT DIDN'T WORK IS WHEN WE GOT THE WASHER AND DRYER AND PUT 'EM IN THERE.
AND THAT WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE TIME THEY WERE COMING FOR A FINAL.
SO IT WAS WITHIN PROBABLY A COUPLE DAYS OF KNOWING IT DIDN'T WORK PER THE MOCKUP, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.
CAN I HAVE US JUMP BACK TO THE SURE, GO AHEAD.
THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS AND DISTANCES AND, AND THE REASON I'M JUST BRINGING IT UP IS I SEE OUR, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT MEASUREMENT WAS DONE IN THAT CHART.
I DID SEE THE ONE THAT SAID FOUR INCH DUCT AND, YOU KNOW, 31 FEET, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S COMBINED HORIZONTAL RUN AND THE LITTLE THREE OR FOUR FOOT VERTICAL.
AND REMEMBER TOO, UH, GREG, THAT CHART IS, IS THE RIGID METAL, THAT'S A RIGID METAL CHART, RIGHT? SO, UM, THE, THE TRANSITION IS, THE TRANSITION IS, IS IS FAIRLY VAGUE.
GUYS IN, IN, YOU KNOW, IN THEIR MANUAL, THERE'S NOT A NICE LITTLE CHART WITH SHOWING YOU ALL THE BENDS AND WHATNOT.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR, THEIR FEW REQUIREMENTS, WHICH ARE THE EIGHT FOOT AND THE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T CRUSH IT, COLLAPSE IT, AND SMASH IT.
SO, UM, AND, AND JUST TO KIND OF, WHEN I SHOWED THAT, I WANTED TO SHOW YOU THAT DRYER BOX VENT THAT WE HAVE, RIGHT? SO WE HAVE A DRYER BOX IN THE WALL THAT GOES STRAIGHT UP.
WE GOT A 90 AT THE CEILING AND NINETY'S OVER AND THERE'S A 45.
SO WE'RE DEALING WITH LIKE ONE 90 AND A 45.
I SAW THERE WAS ONE THAT WAS 45.
SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA READ THIS IN.
IS, UH, ANY ELBOW GREATER THAN 45 SHOULD BE TREATED AS A 91 ELBOW OF 45 OR LESS MAY BE IGNORED.
THAT'S OUTTA THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.
SO KNOWING THAT YOU'VE GOT INSTALLATIONS, WELL ALMOST ALL OF THEM EXCEED THE 25 FOOT RIGID METAL LENGTH THAT PUT LIMITS YOU TO NO MORE THAN THREE 90 DEGREE ELBOWS.
YOU'VE ALREADY GOT ONE IN THE CEILING, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ONE IN THE BACK OF THE DRYER JUST TO TURN HORIZONTALLY TO GO UP AND CONNECT.
SO YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT.
UM, WELL, COMING OUT OF THE DRYER IS THE, IS THE ACTUAL, THAT'S THE ACTUAL FLEX.
EITHER HAVE, HAVE ONE AT THE DRYER OR YOUR, IT APPEARS YOU ALMOST HAVE THREE AT THE DRYER AND, AND KIND OF READING IN BETWEEN.
EVERYBODY'S ON THIS OTHER SIDE OF STUFF IS NORMALLY THE CITY WOULD JUST LOOK AT WHAT'S IN THE WALL WITH AN ASSUMPTION.
I, YOU KNOW, I, I MIGHT GO ONE OR TWO ELBOWS IN
[00:55:01]
THE FLEX DUCT AND DOES IT WORK.SO, YOU KNOW, PART OF ME SITTING HERE AT THIS GOING, IF IT'S THERE AND THEY SEE IT, THIS IS A CODE VIOLATION.
AND I HATE PLAYING GAMES LIKE SOMEBODY HAD ALLUDED EARLIER, DO THE FINAL BEFORE THE INSTALLATION, YOU KNOW, BUT EVEN, EVEN AT THAT, THE ONUS FALLS BACK ON YOU, ON THE INSTALLER AND THE OWNER TO MAKE SURE IT'S PER CODE.
IF THERE'S A FIRE, THE LIABILITY'S GONNA FALL BACK ON YOU.
UM, BUT SINCE IT'S THERE AND WE SAW IT, I, I THINK I'VE GOTTA LOOK AT THIS.
THIS IS A CODE VIOLATION AND YOU'VE GOTTA TAKE, YOU GOTTA TAKE AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE ELBOWS OUT IN ORDER TO, TO COMPLY WITH, YOU KNOW, 35 FOOT, IT'S THREE ELBOWS MAX.
YOU ALREADY GOT ONE IN THE CEILING.
SO YOU CAN HAVE NO MORE THAN TWO ELBOWS ANYWHERE ELSE.
SO REALLY YOU'RE GONNA BE LIMITED TO JUST THAT ONE ON THE BACK OF THE DRYER, WHETHER THAT'S THE MAGNETIC ATTACHMENT WITH SOME WAY TO GET THAT TO WORK.
I, I, THAT'S THE LAST OF, I THINK, SO WE'RE, YOU'RE SAYING IF WE'RE WITHIN 35 FEET IN YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THE, THE, THE, THE GUIDELINES WE'RE WITHIN CODE, IF YOU HAVE NO MORE THAN THREE ELBOWS, BUT YOU GOT FOUR WITH U BEND, YOU GOT FOUR, YOU GOT OUT ONE, YOU BEND TWO AND THREE UP TO THE CEILING FOUR.
SO THE ONLY WAY, AND IF YOU'RE AT FOUR, YOU CAN'T GO MORE THAN 25 FOOT OF OF RUN OF STRAIGHT DUCT.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU'VE GOT IN THE CEILING.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH YOU HAVE IN THE WALL, BUT, SO IF THAT'S WHERE WE'RE, WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH IT, THAT IT'S THE, THE RUN, WHICH IS KIND OF DIFFERENT.
RIGHT? THEN WHY CAN'T WE USE THAT OTHER DRYER THAT'S AN UPGRADED MODEL DRYER ALONG VENT DRYER.
UM, I, IF THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GONNA GO WITH IT, I CAN'T SAY THAT WE'VE USED THAT IN AUSTIN, GUYS.
I'VE ACTUALLY HAD THOUGHTS ON THAT AND MY ONLY CONCERN ABOUT THAT.
I WOULD SAY THEN YOU WOULD BE CODE COMPLIANT IF YOU USED THE ONE DOWN BELOW EXHAUST LENGTH FOR LONG VENT MODELS.
SO IF YOU HAVE FOUR ELBOWS, YOU CAN GO 155 FEET.
SO IF THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH IT, THEN I'LL, I'LL PAY THE UPGRADED MODEL TO DO THAT.
I, YOU KNOW, I JUST, THE ONLY, THE ONLY THING IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A COUPLE MONTHS, SO WE'RE THE ONLY THING TENANTS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT HAPPY.
AND THE ONLY THING ON THIS THAT, THAT I WORRY ABOUT ON THAT IS THE FUTURE INSTALLATION.
AND YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE'VE ALL BEEN IN THE REAL WORLD AND WE KNOW THE NEXT DRYER THAT GETS BOUGHT TO GO IN THERE IS NOT GONNA BE THIS MODEL.
THE GOOD NEWS IS YOU CONTROL ALL THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE DO GET INTO THE CONUNDRUM OF I THINK THE MECHANICAL, SO CODE SAYS PER MANUFACTURER'S INSTALLATIONS, BUT THEN DOWN BELOW IT'S GOT THE, THE ELBOWS AND LENGTH ON IT TOO.
AND WE GET INTO THAT CONFLICT.
UM, MY OWN PERSONAL THOUGHT IS, WELL, I THOUGHT, AND IT'S ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, IN THE, IN THE MANUAL AND THE CODES, IT'S ALWAYS, IT'S THE USER'S ONUS, RIGHT? IT'S, IT FALLS ON THE USER SO IT KNOW WE CAN CONTROL IT BECAUSE WE ARE THE OWNER, BUT IT, THAT ALSO IS PUTTING US IN A BAD POSITION BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING HELD TO OTHER STANDARDS THAT NO ONE ELSE IN THIS CITY IS.
WELL, I, THE ONLY THING, UNFORTUNATELY, I, AND I UNDERSTAND IT, I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE THE, WE'RE THE OPERATOR.
SO THE, THE, AND, AND, UH, MIKE, YOU MADE, MICHAEL MADE A GOOD POINT.
I CARE ABOUT THIS MORE THAN ANYBODY, RIGHT? THIS IS THE LAST THING IN THE WORLD I WANT.
AND, AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT CAN BE ANOTHER APPLIANCE, RIGHT? I'M, I'M, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE LAST THING WE WANNA DO IS GET THAT CALL ANY OF US WANNA DO IS GET THAT CALL, RIGHT? SO, YEAH.
UM, I'M NOT TRYING TO CUT CORNERS AND, AND TRYING TO DO SOMETHING.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, BEEN DOING A LONG TIME AND, AND, UH, I HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS.
SO, WELL, THE ONLY THING ON THOSE, THOSE LONG LENGTH MODELS, AND THIS IS MORE TOWARDS THE CITY, IF WE ARE, NO, THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN A DRYER THAT HAS THAT CAPABILITY.
'CAUSE I HAD A HOUSE THAT WAS, OH MY GOD, A DISASTER.
I FINALLY JUST BOUGHT A VENTLESS DRYER.
UM, BUT MAYBE AS A FUTURE CODE CYCLE, WE SHOULD PUT A NOTE.
IF A LONG VENT MODEL PER THE MANUFACTURER, WE NEED TO HAVE A PERMANENTLY AFFIXED SOMETHING IN THAT DRYER BOX THAT WAY THAT THE NEXT PERSON OR THE NEXT OWNER REALIZES THAT YOU CAN'T JUST PUT, YOU KNOW, THE KENMORE SPECIAL THAT'S IN THERE.
THAT'S, THAT, IT JUST WON'T WORK.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S GOT A LONGER LINE.
I, I THINK FOR, FOR MY END OF DISCUSSION ON THIS IS IT'S EITHER YOU GOTTA COMPLY WITH THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS, WHICH IS THE LIMIT, THE NUMBER OF ELBOWS, OR YOU GOTTA USE A LONG, A LONG VENT MODEL.
THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M AT ON THIS ONE.
SO THE, UH, QUESTION STILL REMAINS, I MEAN, WE, THIS, THIS WHOLE PRESENTATION IS ABOUT, UH, THE CITY DECISION TO NOT ACCEPT THE DRYER VENT INSTALLATION AS CODE COMPLIANT PER IMC 5, 0 4 0.1.
SO DO WE HAVE WHAT YOU WOULD ACCEPT OR WHAT THE CITY WOULD ACCEPT? YES, SIR.
WE HAVE THE, UM, FOR THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO, SCENARIO, WE HAVE THE TWO SOLUTIONS AT THE END, UM, AS FAR AS THAT MAINTENANCE ACCESS PANELS, SO THAT THEY CAN CONNECT OR THAT MAGNETIC VENT, WHICH, UM,
[01:00:01]
MY APOLOGIES.WE DID SEND IT OVER TO THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR, UM, A COUPLE DAYS AGO, UM, AS, AS A POSSIBLE SOLUTION THAT THEY COULD LOOK INTO.
UM, BUT, UH, IN MY, LIKE I SAID, MY APOLOGIES FOR NOT INCLUDING YOU IN THAT ONE.
UH, BUT IN THE FUTURE, UM, WE WOULD STILL ACCEPT THESE TWO ITEMS. UM, BUT OUR RECOMMENDATION IS, UM, TO EITHER CHANGE THE DESIGN, WHICH I CAN UNDERSTAND IS EXPENSIVE, OR TO, AGAIN, HAVE THE MAINTENANCE PANELS THAT YOU CAN, YOU CAN REACH IN AND CHANGE THESE OUT, BUT NOT AN UPGRADED UNIT.
I WOULD HESITATE TO DO AN UPGRADED UNIT.
UM, BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS DO, I MEAN, THEY DREW YOU A PICTURE.
I MEAN, THEY, THEY FLAT DREW YOU A PICTURE AND SAID, DON'T DO IT.
THE PICTURE WAS FOR EXCESSIVE LENGTH OF PIPE.
RIGHT? SO WHEN, WHEN THE, WHEN THE, UH, GUIDELINES SAY EIGHT FOOT OR LESS.
SO THAT'S, THE GUIDELINES SAY THAT'S AN INTERPRETATION OF WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT THE PICTURE IS AND WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU INTERPRET.
I UNDERSTAND THE GUIDELINES DO ALSO SAY, CUT IT TO LENGTH TO THE SHORTEST, SHORTEST LENGTH POSSIBLE.
SO IF YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT IT, THE, THE DRYER, AND WE STATED THAT THE DRYER'S OUTSIDE, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO CONNECT IT.
UNFORTUNATELY, THESE DRYER VENTS, THEY'RE FLEXIBLE, BUT THEY'RE LIKE SLINKIES.
SO WHEN YOU PUSH THE DRYER IN AND THEN YOU GET THE DIP IN IT, UH, THIS ONE, THIS MAGNETIC VENT IS, IF, IF THAT WORKS, THAT'S, THAT'S AN OPTION.
CAN I HAVEN'T SEEN ONE OF THOSE YET, SO I HAVE TO DO SOME READING.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU PUT THE, UH, THE PLAN UP THAT HAD THE FOUR INCH DUCT WORK EQUIVALENT, THAT SMALL CHART IN THE BOTTOM LEFT CORNER? NOT THAT WAY.
IF YOU CAN ZOOM IN ON THAT, PLEASE.
SO THIS IS THE ONE I WAS REFERRING TO WHERE ALMOST EVERY O OTHER THAN A ONE AND A TWO, YOU EXCEED THE 25 FOOT, I GUESS A THREE TECHNICALLY IS IN THERE.
UM, A ONE, YOU'VE ACTUALLY GOT 2 45, SO THAT'S GONNA COUNT AS A 90.
SO IN THAT CASE, YOU'D ACTUALLY HAVE FIVE NINETIES.
SO THAT ONE WOULD BE, AGAIN, OUT THE BACK.
ONE UBIN, TWO, THREE CEILING, 4, 2 40 FIVES, FIVE.
AND I THINK, UH, DON'T, NOW I DON'T REMEMBER IF THERE WAS A CHART FOR FIVE ON THE, THE O EIGHT, THE MANUFACTURERS, BUT I DON'T THINK IT DID.
SO I THINK BETWEEN A ONE B ONE B TWO, AND C ONE, YOU'VE, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A CODE COMPLIANT INSTALLATION.
AND I'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE CITY.
I THINK IN THEORY YOU COULD LEAVE THE U BEND AS MUCH AS I HATE IT ON, ON THE A TWO AND A THREE.
UM, BUT LIKE I SAID, I, I DON'T KNOW, ARE WE READY FOR, FOR POTENTIALLY A MOTION ON THIS OR WE ARE, BUT, UH, BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS HAVE MORE DISCUSSION AFTER THE MOTION IN A SECOND.
BUT JUST, UH, JUST RECALL AGAIN THAT THIS IS AS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO.
THIS IS A PRESENTATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON THE APPEAL OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL'S DECISION TO NOT ACCEPT THE DRYER VENT INSTALLATION AS CODE COMPLIANT PRIOR IMC 5 0 4 0.1.
IF YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, GO AHEAD.
UH, BUT JUST TO CLARIFY, UH, CHAIRMAN, UH, BASICALLY IT'S, DOES THE CITY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT DECISION? THAT'S PART OF WHAT THE APPEAL IS.
AND, AND MY CONTENTION IS THE CITY DOES HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
AND I THINK ALSO PART OF OUR CHARGE IS DO WE AGREE THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT DECISION? I THINK IT'S, IT'S PART OF IT.
UM, BEFORE WE DO DO THAT, UM, I JUST, I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY AGAIN BECAUSE I'M NOT A TECHNICAL EXPERT ON THIS BOARD, OBVIOUSLY.
UM, IF IT WAS INSTALLED IN A WAY THAT IT RAN, LIKE THE WAY IT'S CONSTRUCTED AND EVERYTHING IN BEHIND THE WALL IS PAST CITY INSPECTION, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THAT THE WAY IT'S INSTALLED WITH THE EXTRA BINS ADDS TOO MUCH LENGTH.
IT CREATES THIS, THE, THE, THE TRAP YOU'RE SAYING IT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS.
IF THEY FOUND A WAY TO CONNECT THOSE, LIKE SAME DRYER, SAME HOLE IN THE WALL, IF THERE WAS SOME WAY TO INSTALL IT SO THAT IT DIDN'T FALL DOWN BEHIND AND JUST WENT STRAIGHT INTO THE DRYER DUCT, YOUR CONTENTION IS THAT, OR THE CONTENTION OF THE CITY IS THAT IT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE? I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE ISSUE IS.
AND, AND, AND BASED ON THE RUNS, THE, THE LONG VENT IS NOT AN OPTION.
I, I'M, I'M CONFUSED BY HOW THAT WOULD NOT BE AN OPTION WHEN THAT, WHEN YOU'RE MAKING YOUR MOTION THAT WE'RE, WE'RE WITH, WE'RE, WE'RE OUTSIDE OF OUR ALLOWABLE LENGTH.
WHEN THE LONG VENT CHART THAT YOU'RE REFERENCING WOULD SAY WE'RE WITHIN THAT I, I, I'M GONNA TAKE BY A LOT.
I'M, I'M GONNA TAKE AS AN EASY WAY OUTTA THAT AND GO, THE APPEAL DOES NOT INCLUDE THE INSTALLATION OF, OF THE LONG VENT.
I KNEW YOU WERE GOING
[01:05:01]
TO DEAL WITH.BECAUSE HE'S RIGHT NOW THAT THESE ARE AVAILABLE, I'M GONNA TELL YOU, THEY'RE A GODSEND BECAUSE I FOUGHT DRYER VENT FOR, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES, YOU KNOW, HIGH RISE BUILDINGS THAT ARE 10 STORIES TALL, AND YOU HAVE TO DO AN NFPA CHASE AND TURNIPS AND AN EXHAUST FAN ON THE ROOF.
AND YEAH, THAT WAS ALL VERY CONFUSING TO LISTEN TO IT.
'CAUSE I DON'T NO, I'M JUST KIDDING.
I, BUT, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S A PICTURE AND AN F BUT I'M TRYING TO ISOLATE WHAT THE ISSUE IS.
SO, AND HYPOTHETICALLY IF THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL, THIS CLOSET WAS THE OUTSIDE AND IT JUST WENT BOOM, STRAIGHT OUT THE WAY THAT DRYER VENT IS INSTALLED OR THAT DUCT IS INSTALLED WITH THAT BE ACCEPTABLE AND NOT TO US, NO, BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS IN OUR OPINION, UM, SAY DO NOT CREATE THIS EXCESSIVE LENGTH, UM, REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL, IT SAYS CUT IT TO LENGTH, UM, AND KEEP IT AS STRAIGHT AS POSSIBLE.
SO ACCORDING TO THE, AND AGAIN, I HATE TO BE THAT, JUST I'M, I'M TRYING TO SIMPLIFY IT ENOUGH FOR MYSELF.
SO, SO THE, THE POSITION IS THAT, UM, IT HAS NOT, IT'S NOT THAT WE CREATE THE EXTRA BENDS IN THE RUN, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT TECHNICALLY BE A, A LEGITIMATE ASPECT, WE'RE SAYING THAT BECAUSE IT'S SO LOOSE, IT, IT HAS THE EXTRA EXCESS AND IT ALLOWS IT TO BE CRUSHED, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
SO EVEN IF YOU HAD THESE HIGH POWERED OR THE UPGRADED MACHINE THAT WAS ABLE TO PUMP THE AIR OUT AT A HIGHER RATE OF CUBIC FEET PER MINUTE OR WHATEVER, UM, THAT WOULD NOT BE OKAY BECAUSE THE ISSUE TO YOU IS THAT THE WAY THE DUCT, THE FLEXIBLE DUCT FALLS DOWN BEHIND AND GOES BACK UP IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
AND THAT'S WHY WHENEVER THEY HAD REQUESTED IT, WE HAD DENIED IT.
THAT BEING SAID, THAT IS NOT, UM, PART OF THIS BUILDING.
IT WAS, UM, IT WAS BROUGHT UP FOR ANOTHER ONE.
NO, I'M JUST BEING HYPOTHETICAL.
JUST FOR CLARITY FOR ME, FOR THE LAST QUESTION I'M GONNA HAVE IS YOU CAN ASK MORE.
SO IF THE MANUFACTURER SENT A REPRESENTATIVE INSPECTED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THESE DRYERS UNIT BY UNIT, IF THEY APPROVED THEM AND SAID THERE PER OUR MANUFACTURER'S SPECIFICATIONS, WOULD THEY BE ALLOWED? MY GENERAL CONCERN WITH THAT IS, SO A LITTLE BACKGROUND, I USED TO WRITE THESE AS AN ENGINEER.
UM, SO GENERALLY THE ENGINEERS ARE WRITING THEM AND THEY'RE BEING INTERPRETED BY NON-ENGINEERS.
AND SO TO HAVE A NON-ENGINEER GO AND INTERPRET IT AND SAY THAT IT DOESN'T MATCH IT, I WOULD HAVE A HARD TIME ACCEPTING IT.
UM, EVEN FROM A GE MANAGER, WHICH IS WHO WE GOT THE EMAIL FROM.
SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A ENGINEERS THEMSELVES, UH, AN ENGINEER FROM GE.
IF THEY SAID, YES, THIS IS THE INTENT OF WHAT WE TRIED TO WRITE IN THESE INSTRUCTIONS, YES, I WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO LISTEN TO THAT.
'CAUSE THAT AS SOON AS YOU, THE PE BEHIND THE NAME, THEN THAT PERSON HAS TAKEN THE LIABILITY.
AND SO I, I WILL SAY THE LETTER THAT PRESENTED HAVING WRITTEN SOME OF THOSE FUN QUASI LEGALISTIC TECHNICAL, THEY DIDN'T ABSORB ANY LIABILITY ON IT.
IT WAS THE PE WHO PUT A STAMP AND SAID, I GOT A LETTER FROM GE.
GE IT'S NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY THOUGH, EITHER.
AND I WON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT, BUT THROWING A STAMP ON A LETTER IS KIND OF GETTING INTO THE POINT OF LIKE, OH, LOOK, I'VE GOT A HIGHER LEVEL OF AUTHORITY.
BUT WHAT THEY SAY IN THE LETTER IS, HEY, LOOK, IT'S, GE SAYS IT'S INSTALLED PER IT.
NOW I'M GONNA PUT A STAMP ON IT.
UM, I I, TO KIND OF ANSWER, TO GO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE CRUSHING THE DUCT, I'LL SAY THAT'S KIND OF TWO INDEPENDENT PIECES.
THERE'S, THERE'S AN OPINION OF EX WHAT IS EXCESSIVE BECAUSE IT'S NOT DELINEATED.
IT'S, IT'S OPEN, OPEN-ENDED QUESTION.
CRUSHING IS A PRETTY DEFINITE THING.
AND I THINK WE'VE EVEN GOT THAT AS AN ISSUE IN THESE TWO.
SO THAT MAY BE A PIECE THAT ANYTIME THAT DUCT IS CRUSHED, UH, IT'S AN AUTOMATIC CODE VIOLATION.
IT'S AGAINST I AGREE WITH THAT.
THAT THAT'S A, THAT'S AN, UH, A ONE AND DONE EASY.
THE EXCESSIVE LENGTH, I THINK IS WHERE WE'RE COMING IN AND HAVING TO GET TECHNICAL.
AND FROM A TECHNICAL STANDPOINT, WHEN AS SOON AS YOU PUT FOUR ELBOWS IN THAT THING, YOU CAN'T BE MORE THAN 25 FOOT OF, OF LENGTH OF PIPE.
AND THAT INCLUDES NOT JUST THE HARD PIPE AND THE CEILING AND THE WALL THAT INCLUDES THAT EIGHT FOOT THAT'S, THAT'S ATTACHED.
AND SO, UM, I'M TRYING TO THINK HOW I WANNA WORD A MOTION, BUT I, I THINK I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, HELP ME, HELP ME WORD THIS ONE RIGHT, THAT WE AGREE WITH THE CITY, THAT THIS IS A NON CODE COMPLIANT INSTALLATION, EVEN PER MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATION BECAUSE YOU'RE EXCEEDING 25 FOOT IN LENGTH OF, IN ESSENCE, IT'S A STRAIGHT, RIGHT.
CAN I ASK A QUESTION FIRST? YOU'RE, YOU'RE INTERPRETING THE, THE AMOUNT OF NINETIES IN THERE TOO? A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT CLEARLY DEFINED IN THERE.
AND BY DEFINITION IT'LL LOOK AT ANY OF 'EM.
IT'LL TELL YOU IF IT'S A 90 IN THE FLEX DUCT OR THE HARD PIPE.
BUT IF WE COULD GET THAT UNDER TWO YES.
IF YOU CAN GET THAT UNDER TWO, IF GET THE FLEX STACK UNDER TWO NINETIES, WHAT YOU'RE INTERPRETING YEAH.
WERE WITH, WERE WITHIN OUR ALLOWABLE LIMITS.
IF YOU HAD TWO ELBOWS, IF YOU THREW THAT CHART BACK UP, IT WAS, WHAT, 50 FEET? I DON'T REMEMBER
[01:10:01]
WHAT IT WAS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.WELL, WE GOT ONE IN THE ONE IN THE CEILING, BUT IT WOULD BE WITHIN, UH, IT'S EITHER 35 OR 45 4.
AND, AND I THINK YOU'D BE COMPLIANT.
LEMME HOW, HOW MUCH ROOM BEHIND THE DRYER TO THE WALL WITH YOUR SPACE THAT YOU HAVE.
HOW MUCH ROOMS? I'LL SAY PLUS OR MINUS SIX INCHES.
THEY, THEY SELL A, THEY DO SELL A DRYER VAN THAT'S GOT A LITTLE FLEX IN IT, I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY.
AND IF YOU SHOW THOSE BOXES, ARE THOSE BOXES LINING UP RIGHT BEHIND WHERE DRY VENT, WHERE THE DRY VENT COMES OUT? ARE THEY OFF-CENTERED FROM THAT? ARE YOUR DRY VENTS LINING UP AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT BOX TO WHERE YOU CAN PUT A LITTLE FLEX IN THERE WHERE IT'LL, IT'LL CONNECT? YEAH, THEY'RE SITTING.
I MEAN, IF, IF YOU'VE GOT SIX INCHES, YOU SHOULDN'T CRUSH FOUR INCH.
UNLESS THAT'S NOT THE CASE, RIGHT? YEAH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT SITTING PERFECT.
UM, I DON'T REMEMBER THE DIMENSIONS ON IT.
BECAUSE IF YOU GOTTA PUT AN ELBOW ON THAT THING AND THEN TRY TO MAKE AN ELBOW AND THEN MAKE ANOTHER ELBOW INTO THE BOX, IT AIN'T NEVER GONNA WORK.
SO THIS IS THE BACK OF OUR, OUR DRYER VEST.
SO THE DRYERS ARE COMING OUT CENTER LINE AT ABOUT 44 INCHES.
WE'RE AT DOES LINE UP WITH THAT? THE BOX IS AT 61, WE'RE AT 44 COMING OUT.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE BOX SHOULD HAVE DONE, IS LINED UP WITH THE BOTTOM OF THE VENT COMING OUT? WELL, WELL, HE'S, UH, YES AND NO BECAUSE WE GOT, BECAUSE WE HAVE THE FLEX AND IT GETS A LITTLE DIP IN IT.
BUT THAT'S, THAT IS HOW YOU WANT IT.
YOU WANT IT TO GO RIGHT UP LIKE THAT, RIGHT? FROM 44 UP, IT LOOKS LIKE, LIKE, BECAUSE YOU GOT, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GOT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOUR WASHER HOSES.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA GET THAT THING TO NOT SMASH IS MY QUESTION.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE CITY WAS SAYING YOU COULD PUT A TWO BY SIX ON THE FLOOR AGAINST THE WALL, AND THEN THE BACK OF THE DRYER, YOU STOP HER BACK THERE, WOULD STOP IT FROM CRUSHING.
BUT AGAIN, I'M, THAT'S AN INSTALLATION ISSUE THAT, THAT NOT COMPLETELY US.
WELL, I THINK THE WHOLE THING, ISN, I'M, THAT MOTION, UH, TURNED INTO LIKE EIGHT PARAGRAPHS.
SO WE
SO IF WE, SOMEBODY WANTS TO, BUT WE'RE FIGHTING GE NOW, RIGHT? WE'RE FIGHTING GE.
WELL, I THINK IT'S STILL, AND I'M IN THE MIDDLE.
IT'S STILL, IT'S STILL BOILS DOWN TO WHETHER THE CITY HAS THE RIGHT TO, UH, DECIDE WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO NOT CREATE A FIRE HAZARD OR A LT TRAP OR WHATEVER.
WE'RE EITHER HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT, THE APPEAL, IT'S UP TO YOUR PROBLEM OR IF IT'S UP TO THE CITY.
AND THAT'S WHAT OUR CHARGE IS.
SO SOMEBODY NEEDS TO MAKE A MOTION.
SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO CONCUR WITH THE CITY'S INTERPRETATION THAT THE INSTALLATION IS A CODE VIOLATION.
ANY MORE DISCUSSION? YEAH, I THINK WE SHOULD JUST KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.
SO AGAIN, THE WAY I UNDERSTAND THIS IS THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING IS SUFFICIENT.
IF THERE'S SOME LEVEL OF, UH, I GUESS, INGENUITY THAT ALLOWS THAT HOSE TO BE CONNECTED WITHOUT FALLING DOWN BEHIND THE WASHER OF THE, OF THE STACK, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE SIX INCHES, BETWEEN THE BACK OF THE DRYER AND THE WALL, AND WHAT HOWEVER DEEP THAT INSET OF THE DRYER VENT IS, THIS IS CORRECT.
THEY'LL, THEY'LL BE SO, SO LIKE THOSE MOCKUP PHOTOS IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
IF THEY, IF THEY HAD BEEN INSTALLED THE SAME WAY THAT THOSE MOCKUP PHOTOS LOOK, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WHERE IT GOES STRAIGHT FROM THE DRYER UP, IT'S, IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF EXCESSIVE LENGTH IN THERE, IT DOESN'T DIP, THEN YES, THAT WOULD BE CODE COMPLIANT.
RIGHT? AND NOT NECESSARILY JUST EXACTLY PERFECT, BUT JUST NOT ALL THE WAY CORRECT.
SO IF, IF, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE WAY I WOULD INTERPRET THE CODE WITHOUT A DEFINITION FROM THE MANUFACTURER OR OUR CODE FOR ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT CONNECTION, I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN EVER REALLY COMPLY WITHOUT THAT.
LIKE AN AMENDMENT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE US ACCESS, YOU KNOW, OR WE'RE GONNA ALWAYS FAIL.
THERE'S NO WAY TO MAKE ANY KIND OF FLEXIBLE DRYER VENT DUCT CONNECTION NO MATTER WHERE THAT BOX IS PLACED.
EVEN IF YOU DID IT IN A RIGID, YOU'D STILL HAVE TO HAVE ACCESS.
NEITHER THE MANUFACTURER NOR OUR CODE SPECIFIES AN ACCESS TO MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS EXIST.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T DICTATE ACCESSIBILITY TO IT.
BUT THE CODE DOES SAY THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE MORE THAN SO MANY ELBOWS IN A RUN OF DUCT.
AND HOW YOU GET THERE, WHETHER IT'S, WAS IT MARK THAT WAS HANGING UPSIDE DOWN BEHIND THE DRYER, HAVING BEEN THAT PERSON MYSELF WHEN I WAS 12 YEARS OLD AND MY DAD HOLDING ME UPSIDE DOWN AND I COULDN'T YELL AT HIM TO HOLD THE FLASHLIGHT ANY BETTER BECAUSE HE DROPPED ME.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE KICKER ON THIS ONE IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, IF THIS WASN'T A STACKED A STACK SYSTEM AND YOU COULD GET BACK THERE AND IF IT WERE LAYING ON THE GROUND, IT WAS JUST AN S BEND, YOU'D ONLY HAVE TWO INSTEAD OF THREE ELBOWS IN THE FLEX DUCT, YOU'D COMPLY.
[01:15:01]
'CAUSE YOU'D BE, YOU'D, YOU'D BE, YOU KNOW, 1, 2, 3 IN THE CEILING AND YOU'D BE BACK TO 35 FOOT AND YOU'D BE ALL RIGHT.BUT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THAT UBIN, THAT'S WHAT'S CATCHING YOU FROM A TECHNICAL STANDPOINT.
THE, THE HERE WHY I'M CAUGHT IN THE, IS THIS, UM, WE HAVE A CODE THAT SAYS PER MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDATION, WE HAVE THE MANUFACTURER SAYING THIS IS OKAY.
RIGHT? SO I I, AND, BUT I ALSO SEE THE CITY'S POINT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT, WHO FROM THE MANUFACTURER SAYS IT'S OKAY.
RIGHT? I CAN WE PUT THAT LETTER BACK UP? YEAH.
AGAIN, WELL, THE LETTERS FROM THE ENGINEER, THE, AND THEN THE MANUFACTURER SAYING THAT, THAT IT IS, SO, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S A TOUGH ONE BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU ALMOST SEE WHERE BOTH SIDES ARE RIGHT ON THIS.
BUT AGAIN, WHAT WHAT'S WRITTEN IN THE CODE IS PER MANUFACTURER SPECIFICATION AND THE MANUFACTURER'S SAYING YES.
SO HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE DECIDE THAT WE, IT'S NOT MANUFACTURER ENOUGH? UM, WHO SAID IT? THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHERE I'M KIND OF HUNG UP HERE.
THIS IS A VERY, VERY TYPICAL DETAIL.
AND IF YOU OWN APARTMENTS OR YOU MANAGE APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A VERY TYPICAL DETAIL.
CAN YOU PUT THAT LETTER BACK? AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT GUYS, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT NOW IN MORE PROBABLY PROPERTIES AND IT'S GONNA BE A, A BIGGER ISSUE.
I JUST WANT TO, UH, ADDRESS, UH, MY COUNTERPARTS COMMENT.
WE RECEIVED AN EMAIL, NOT A LETTER FROM, UH, GE.
UH, IT'S NOT STAMPED, SEALED, SIGNED OR ANYTHING.
WE DON'T KNOW THIS INDIVIDUAL'S QUALIFICATIONS.
IF AN ENGINEER WOULD ACTUALLY INSPECT THESE THAT REPRESENTS GE, THAT'D BE DIFFERENT.
SCROLL UP JUST EVER SO SLIGHTLY.
'CAUSE IF YOU READ IT AND READ IT, LIKE A LAWYER WOULD READ IT, YOU'LL FIND THAT IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, IT GETS INTERESTING.
WELL, YOU, I I MIGHT ADD THAT IT DOESN'T IDENTIFY THE UNITS THEY LOOKED AT, UH, DOESN'T HAVE PICTURES OR ANYTHING TO WHAT THEY ADDRESSED IN THEIR, UH, INVESTIGATION.
THIS ONE, I WILL ACTUALLY SAY THEY WROTE IT A LITTLE BIT NICER NOW THAT I'M ABLE TO READ THROUGH IT A LITTLE, LITTLE BIT BETTER.
BUT IT, BUT IT'S STILL HAVING BEEN THAT ENGINEER, SOMEBODY'S GONNA SEND YOU THE PERFECT PICTURE AND NOT TELL YOU ABOUT ALL THE OTHER ONES.
SO I, I'M, I THINK I'M SAYING THE SAME THING, MARK.
YEAH, JACK, IF THEY SWITCH TO A DRYER THAT PUSHES 155 FEET AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, I I I'M BACK TO WHERE MIKE IS, IS THE BEND ILLEGAL? BECAUSE NO, IT, IT IS, IF THE BEND IS NOT ILLEGAL, THEN WHAT GREG IS SAYING, IT'S A LENGTH ISSUE.
IF THEY GO TO A DIFFERENT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT PUSHES OUT FURTHER, THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO WAY TO PUT A STACKABLE WASHER AND DRYER INTO AN AREA WITHOUT HAVING AN EXCESSIVE, WITHOUT HAVING A BIG DIP IN IT.
BECAUSE YOU, YOU HAVE TO PULL IT OUT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER DEEP THE CLOSET IS.
SO THE MINIMUM IS, YOU KNOW, FIVE FEET, SIX FEET TO BE ABLE TO REACH AROUND AND DO THAT.
AS LONG AS IT'S NOT CRUSHED AND THEY'RE USING A DRYER, THAT WILL PUSH OUT FAR ENOUGH.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WITHOUT AN ACCESS PANEL.
I MEAN, YOU'RE STILL STATING WITHOUT AN ACCESS PANEL, WITHOUT AN ACCESS PANEL BE BECAUSE, WELL, WE'RE NOT REQUIRED.
EVERY, EVERY, EVERY DRYER THAT'S INSTALLED, IF WE WENT AND LOOKED AT EVERY DRYER, NONE OF 'EM WOULD MEET COAT.
I I MEAN, UNLESS YOU HAVE A BIG ROOM WHERE THE DRYER'S AFOOT, YOU KNOW, OFF THE WALL BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE MAKING THE BENDS TO GET THERE.
AND 90% OF THE TIME, WHEN YOU PUSH IT BACK, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CREATING A KINK IN THE LINE OR IT DIPS RIGHT.
SO I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT IF THEY CHANGE THE EQUIPMENT OUT, THEY WOULD BE IN COMPLIANCE BECAUSE THE MANUFACTURER'S IN INSTRUCTIONS SAY THAT IT WILL PUSH 150 FEET.
IF WE GO BACK TO THE TABLE WITH FOUR BENDS, A HUNDRED, 155 FEET WITH FOUR BENDS, WAS THE EQUIPMENT SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE, THE PERMITTED PERMIT CHAIR? CHAIR? THIS IS, I MEAN, THOMAS'S DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, YOU HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND ON THE FLOOR, THE DISCUSSION NEEDS TO REMAIN WITH THE BOARD, AND YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
THE TYPICALLY, ONCE THE MOTION IS SET, HAS BEEN MADE, DISCUSSION IS LIMITED TO THE MOTION, THE PUBLIC PORTION OF THE HEARING IS, IS CLOSED.
JUST, YOU KNOW, AS A REMINDER AND ASK THE QUESTION TO THE, ON THE CLARIFICATION, YOU CAN REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING SET ASIDE.
I MEAN, THAT'S PROCEDURALLY, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A PROCESS.
[01:20:01]
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND, UH, DO YOU WANT TO RESTATE THE MOTION AGAIN? THE MOTION WAS TO CONCUR WITH THE CITY'S INTERPRETATION THAT THE INSTALLATION WITH THE SAG, THE, THE U BEND IS NOT A CODE COMPLIANT INSTALLATION WITH A STANDARD LENGTH STANDARD VENT DRYER.AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE, JEREMY, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE GONNA HIT? YES, SIR.
SO WHERE DO WE LEAVE THAT GUY? WELL, JEFF FIRED.
JEFF, WHAT'S THE OPTIONS FOR THIS GUY? HE'S GOTTA DO SOMETHING TO, TO WHAT? MAKE IT COMPLIANT.
THEY GAVE HIM TWO, MAYBE IT'S BRING THAT UNIT IN AND, BUT SHE TOLD HIM HE COULDN'T USE THE DRYERS, WHICH IS NOT RIGHT.
YOU'VE GOT A NON CODE COMPLIANT INSTALLATION.
I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET WITH THIS GUY WHERE WE JUST SQUISHED THIS POOR DUDE AND WE DIDN'T GIVE HIM AN OPTION.
AND THAT'S AN ENGINEERING TALK.
NO, NO, TO ME, IT, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT LEGITIMATE TALK THAT, AGAIN, THAT'S NOT LIKE, AND THE, THE DRYER THAT HE SHOWED DOES MEET THE CODE AND THEY JUST TOLD HIM HE COULDN'T USE IT.
IF HE WERE TO USE THE LONG VENT MODEL, THAT WAS ONE OPTION THAT HE COULD COME BACK TO THE CITY AND ASK IF IT WOULD GO THROUGH OR TWO.
HE CAN REMOVE TWO ELBOWS OR ONE REALLY, IT'S ONLY ONE ELBOW.
HE COULD REMOVE ONE ELBOW FROM THAT ENTIRE SYSTEM AND HE WOULD BE CODE COMPLIANT.
SO HE'S GOT OPTIONS TO FIX IT.
WELL, Y'ALL KNOW, 98% OF ALL DRYERS IS EXACTLY LIKE THEY JUST SHOWED HIM AND WE JUST SQUISHED THIS DEED.
I, I, I'D SUGGEST WE HOLD THIS DISCUSSION AND, AND STICK TO THE AGENDA.
AND WE'RE WAITING ON JEREMY, WE'RE JUST TALKING.
UH, YEAH, LEMME PULL UP THAT DOCUMENT, UH, REAL QUICK.
SORRY, I'VE BEEN REMOTE, SO I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHERE I SAVED IT, BUT I KNOW I SENT IT TO Y'ALL.
SO LET ME, UH, LEMME PULL IT FROM THAT EMAIL REAL QUICK.
SOMEBODY NEEDS TO INVENT A RETRACTABLE DUCT TOGETHER.
BOARD HERE NEEDS TO BE, THIS IS A SHARK TANK.
UH, SO ONCE AGAIN, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, THIS IS AN AGENDA ITEM, UH, THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IN OUR JANUARY 5TH MEETING.
UM, MR. SHANNON, OUR DIRECTOR, UH, BROUGHT THIS TO Y'ALL IN WHAT IT IS, IS WE FINALIZED ALL OUR COMMITTEE MEETINGS OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS TO ADOPT ALL THE, UH, APPROVED CODES UNDER CHAPTER 10, CHAPTER 11 FOR THE FIRE CODE AS WELL AS CHAPTER 28.
IN ORDER TO DO THAT, THIS BOARD CREATES VARIOUS COMMITTEES, UH, TO REVIEW THOSE AND THEN BRING THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE TO THIS BOARD.
CURRENTLY, WE HAVE IN LANGUAGE TO ALLOW NON-BOARD MEMBERS TO BE MEMBERS OF THAT COMMITTEE.
UH, WE DID THAT SPECIFICALLY WITH THE SIGN CODE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO, MOVING FORWARD, WE'LL DEFINITELY TRY TO, UH, ENCOURAGE THE COM NON APPOINTED MEMBERS, UH, TO JOIN THESE COMMITTEES ON ANY OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES THAT WE HAVE, BUILDING ELECTRICAL, MECHANICAL, PLUMBING.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME AS WELL IN THESE NON APPOINTED MEMBERS THAT WERE PART OF THE SIGN CODE, AS WELL AS ANOTHER, UH, CHAPTER THAT WE DO THROUGH OUR BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD FOR PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, WAS THEM BEING NON-VOTING.
UH, SO WE, WE UNDERSTOOD THAT WE RESPECTED THAT, AND WE WANNA BRING THIS TO, UH, BOTH THE ALL AND THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD TO LOOK AT MAKING THESE NON APPOINTED MEMBERS VOTING MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.
UH, SO ONCE AGAIN, THIS THE COMMITTEE LEVEL THAT GETS A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD, THOSE NINE APPOINTED MEMBERS ARE NOT PART OF THE BOARD.
THE VOTE FINALLY GOES TO THE BOARD FOR FINAL DECISIONS BEFORE WE TAKE THAT TO, UH, CITY COUNCIL.
UH, SO WE BROUGHT THAT FORWARD TO Y'ALL.
Y'ALL HAD SOME, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, TO US.
AND I CAN PULL THAT SECTION UP HERE REAL QUICK, BUT Y'ALL ALSO HAVE A HARD COPY OF THAT CHECK.
[01:25:01]
SO, JEREMY, WHERE IT SAYS, AND I THINK WE'RE GONNA NEED TO CORRECT THIS BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE MULTIPLE HOME BUILDERS THAT REPRESENT ONE CATEGORY, BUT THERE'S MULTIPLE VOTING MEMBERS.AND WHAT THIS SAID, SAYS IS THAT IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN, YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE MORE THAN ONE PER CATEGORY VOTING.
YEAH, I CAN, I'LL GET WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM TO MAKE SURE, BUT I THINK IT'S WRITTEN MORE THAT WAY IN THE PAST, AND I THINK WE STILL HAVE, WE HAVE TWO CATEGORIES.
WE ONLY HAVE ONE POSITION THAT HAS, OR ONE PROFESSIONAL THAT HAS TWO POSITIONS OF THE SAME CATEGORY.
IT, IT WOULD GO BY IT, IT WOULD GO BY DESIGNATION OF WHO'S THE PRIMARY AND WHO'S THE ALTERNATE.
SO IF YOU'RE DESIGNATED AS A PRIMARY, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE VOTING, UM, AUTHORITY.
BUT WE ALSO HAVE TWO PRIMARY HOME BUILDERS AND TWO ALTERNATE HOME.
UH, SO WE JUST HAVE TWO SLOTS FOR THE SAME THING.
WOULD THAT WORDING KEEP THEM FROM BOTH BEING ON THE SAME? DO WE NEED TO AMEND THAT WORDING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO BE, WE, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT, BUT IF THEY'RE, IF THEY'RE PRIMARIES, IF THEIR PRIMARIES, IN OTHER WORDS, IF THEY WERE ON THE BOARD TOGETHER AND, AND BOTH ABLE TO VOTE, THEN THEY, THEY'RE ABLE TO VOTE IN THE COMMITTEE.
YEAH, BUT THAT'S NOT, I THINK THE INTENT BOTH, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT IT SAYS.
YEAH, WE CAN AMEN THAT AS WELL.
AND ADDITIONALLY, UH, I HAVE A BIG ISSUE AFTER CHAIRING THE SIGN COMMITTEE OF HAVING FOUR NON-MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE SERVE ON MOST OF THE REST OF IT.
BECAUSE IF, IF THE SIGN COMMITTEE AND JACK AND, UH, OTHERS WERE ON IT, IF THAT IS AN INDICATION OF HOW EVERY MEETING IS GONNA GO, WE'LL BE WORKING ON EACH INDIVIDUAL CODE TASK FORCE COMMITTEES FOR, YOU KNOW, 10 WEEKS EACH, BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S GONNA WANT TO HAVE A SAY.
SO I, I JUST THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT INCREASING THE SIZE ON WHAT I CALL THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEES TO THE MEMBERS OF THE GROUP ONLY, AND POSSIBLY FOR THINGS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF WHAT I CALL, YOU KNOW, OR DEAL WITH BIGGER ISSUES LIKE THE SIGN CODE THAT GOES INTO WHAT CAN BE PUT UP AND WHAT CAN'T.
MAYBE THOSE, IF THERE'S A WAY TO IDENTIFY THOSE.
AND THEN I ALSO GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID IS THAT I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME LIMITS OR QUALIFICATIONS ON HOW YOU PICK WHO SERVES.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S ONE AFFECTED PARTY, ONE MEMBER OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE FOR THE SIGN COMMITTEE, THE REAL ESTATE WHO, SO THAT YOU SPLIT THE PEOPLE TWO AND TWO BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON, I, I KNOW WHAT YOU SAY HERE, BUT BASICALLY YOU'RE, YOU COULD HAVE A SITUATION IN OUR SIGN COMMITTEE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE THREE OF THE MEMBERS SHOWED UP.
YOU HAD FOUR, THREE OF THE, UH, VOTING NON-VOTING NON-MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, WHICH MEANS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD HAVE A MAJORITY OF THOSE VOTES.
AND I THINK THAT'S JUST DANGEROUS.
JEREMY WILLIAM BURRIS, UH, BOARD MEMBER.
A FEW QUESTIONS ON THE HISTORY THAT INITIATED THIS.
IS THIS AN INITIATIVE THAT'S COMING OUT OF THE CITY COUNCIL'S OFFICE? IS THIS A DSD INITIATIVE? ARE THERE, UH, REPRESENTATIVES OBVIOUSLY, UH, OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, THAT WERE PUSHING FOR THIS, THAT WANTED REPRESENTATION ON A, A BOARD OF SOME TYPE? WHAT, WHAT PROMPTED THIS POTENTIAL CHANGE? AND THEN I ALSO, GOING BACK, UH, DOES THIS BOARD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE THAT PROVISION OF THE, THE CODE, THE CITY CODE? OF COURSE.
SO I WANNA SAY THE INITIATIVE OF ALL THREE ASPECTS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT.
SO WHERE WE WENT THROUGH WITH THE SIGN CODE AND THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD, WHERE WE DID ALLOW COMMUNITY MEMBERS THROUGH THIS PROVISION TO BE PART OF THOSE COMMITTEES, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A GREAT SUCCESS.
WE, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD DIALOGUE.
WE GOT CHAPTER 28 AND THE SIGN CODE UPDATED AND UNIFORMLY EVERYBODY WAS VERY HAPPY.
BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE ONLY NEGATIVE THAT I THINK WE SAW COME OUT OF THAT, UH, WHEN THE C THOSE COMMUNITY MEMBERS WERE TALKING TO COUNCIL, UH, YOU KNOW, YES, WE WERE MEMBERS OF THAT, YES, WE GET TO SIT, BUT WE WERE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE.
SO AS, AS AN INITIATIVE THAT DSD, YOU KNOW, NOT ANY DIRECT REQUIREMENT FROM CITY COUNCIL, BUT WE LOOKED AT THAT AND WE SAID, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE TRYING TO BE AS OPEN AS POSSIBLE.
WE WANT THESE MEETINGS AND THESE PROCESSES TO BE NOT JUST THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE, BUT ALSO, UH, THE CITIZENS THEMSELVES.
AND WE'RE TRYING TO OPEN THAT UP AND MAKE IT AS UNIFORM AS POSSIBLE.
AND THAT WAS THE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE TAKEAWAYS THAT CAME FROM THAT WAS, OKAY, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T LIKE TO NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO VOTE AT THE COMMITTEE LEVEL, WHICH ULTIMATELY DOES COME
[01:30:01]
BACK TO THE BOARD.THE FINAL DECISION COMES TO THE BOARD, ULTIMATELY THE FINAL DECISION, THEN WE'LL GO TO CITY COUNCIL, THEN THEY CAN, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS THE CITY COUNCIL.
BUT IT JUST ELIMINATES SOME OF THOSE THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT ON THE NEGATIVE SIDE.
SO I WOULD SAY, YES, IT'S AN INITIATIVE FROM DST, I KNOW MIKE SHANNON WANTS US TO DO, TO LOOK AT THIS AND TRY TO IMPROVE ON THAT.
UH, IT WAS FROM THE CITIZENS THAT SIT ON THOSE COMMITTEES, AND IT WAS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, NOT A, A DIRECT REQUIREMENT FROM CITY COUNCIL SAYING DO THAT.
UM, AND THEN, UH, THE SECOND QUESTION YOU HAD, UH, WHETHER WE'RE ALLOWED TO, YES, THIS IS A CHAPTER 10.
UH, SPECIFICALLY IT WAS DEVELOPED BY DSD TO CREATE CHAPTER 10.
WE NEED TO FALL WITHIN OTHER GUIDELINES.
UM, THE CITY CLERKS AND ATTORNEY'S OFFICE WILL VERIFY AND MAKE SURE WE MEET ALL THE OTHER ROBERT'S RULES AND STATE LAWS REQUIREMENTS.
UH, BUT SOME OF THESE, SOME OF THE SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WAS SPECIFIC TO DSD AND CHAPTER 10, AND THE BSB, UH, THE BOARDS, MR. ROBERT JEREMY, UH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, AND, AND I DON'T THINK OVERALL THE CONCEPT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE MODIFICATIONS AND THE LANGUAGE IN THE TENT, BUT YOU DID SAY SOMETHING THAT THE MEMBERS WHO WERE NON-VOTING MEMBERS COMPLAINED TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
WE AS MEMBERS, ARE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAN A NON-VOTING MEMBER.
WE HAVE TO TAKE ETHICS COURSES, WE HAVE TO DO OUR FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE REPORTS.
AND SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A MEMBER AND A NON-MEMBER WHO'S NOT PART OF THIS BOARD THAT HEAD UP SOME OF THESE SUBCOMMITTEES.
SO I'M NOT SURE HOW TO RESOLVE THAT, BUT I JUST WANTED TO RAISE THAT ISSUE.
YOU CAN COMPLAIN TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS WHAT YOU WANT, BUT YOU'RE NOT HELD TO THE SAME LEVEL OF STANDARDS FOR COMMITMENT AND REQUIREMENTS AS THAT WE ARE AS BOARD MEMBERS.
I DO WANNA CLARIFY REAL QUICK, UH, BECAUSE I JUST GOT FOUR MESSAGES FROM THE CITY ON COMPLETING MY FDR
BUT I DO WANT TO SAY IN, YOU KNOW, IN CASE ANY OF THEM, I, I, I DIDN'T MEAN TO SOUND LIKE THEY WERE COMPLAINING, BY NO MEANS THEY, THEY WORKED WITH US AND THEY, THEY DID APPRECIATE THE PROCESS.
UH, IT REALLY WASN'T A COMPLAINT.
IT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST A, IF WE COULD IMPROVE KIND, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, I, AS ANYTIME WE SEND OUT THE SURVEY TYPE STUFF AND YOU ALWAYS WANNA SEE, HEY, WHERE CAN YOU IMPROVE? SO IT WAS JUST SOMETHING THEY BROUGHT TO BEFORE COUNCIL, BUT I, I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS A COMPLAINT.
UH, THE, THE MEMBERS THAT ARE HERE, THE ALTERNATES AND THEN THESE, UM, OTHER FOLKS THAT MIGHT BE PART OF THESE COMMITTEES, IS THERE A REQUIREMENT IN EACH CASE FOR, UH, CITIZENSHIP IN SAN ANTONIO TO LIVE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS? UM, SO THERE'S NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR THIS BOARD.
IT DOES HAVE TO BE, UM, IF YOU'RE NOT WITHIN THE CITY OF, UH, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO LIMITS, THEN THE, WE BRING THAT UP TO THE, TO PCDC, THE PLANNING, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, UH, OF CITY COUNCIL, UH, MADE UP OF FIVE OF THOSE MEMBERS.
AND THEY HAVE TO KIND OF, I, I THINK THERE'S A PROCESS THROUGH THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE WHERE THEY KIND OF ACCEPT THAT, HEY, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE NOT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S, BUT WE DON'T HAVE OTHER APPLICANTS AND WE NEED TO GET THAT POSITION FILLED, SO WE'LL APPROVE IT.
UM, SO IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT.
AND KIND BACK TO WHAT MARK WAS SAYING, WHEN, WHEN WE DEVELOPED THIS AND Y'ALL THE OPTION, THIS ISN'T A REQUIREMENT, THIS IS A MAYBE PRESENT.
SO IT'S UP TO THE BOARD AND THE COMMITTEES TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE DO WANNA HAVE SOME COMMUNITY MEMBERS, MOST LIKELY WE, WE'D WAIT TO SEE IS THERE AN INTEREST, UM, OR IF THERE'S AN INTEREST FROM Y'ALL TO US FOR US TO GO OUT THERE AND BE VERY VOCAL AND TRY TO GET SOME IN.
OR IS IT JUST THROUGH THAT PROCESS WHEN WE START KICKING THIS OFF, WHEN WE HAVE OUR INITIAL MEETINGS AND WE START DEVELOPING THESE COMMITTEES, IF THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST FROM THE COMMUNITY AND THEY'RE COMING HERE AND SAYING, HEY, WE WANNA BE PART OF THIS, THAT'S WHEN Y'ALL AS A BOARD CAN MAKE A DECISION.
OH, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE DO WANNA ADD SOME COMMITTEES.
WE DO WANT THEM TO BE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO REQUIREMENTS.
UH, AS MARK SAID, WE WANT SPECIFIC SEATS.
WE WANT A SEAT FOR THIS TYPE TO COVER THIS, THIS, Y'ALL CAN, YOU KNOW, IT'S, WE'RE TRYING TO LEAVE IT A LITTLE BIT VAGUE SO THAT Y'ALL COULD, YOU KNOW, MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.
'CAUSE ULTIMATELY THE WAY THE PROCESS WORKS IS WE RECEIVE APPLICATIONS, UH, THE, THE COMMITTEE OR THE BOARD, AND I, I WORD IT THAT WAY.
SO THE BOARD COULD EITHER TAKE THE TIME TO DO THIS OR THE COMMITTEE ITSELF.
UH, THE, THE BOARD MEMBERS ON THAT COMMITTEE WOULD TAKE THOSE APPLICATIONS, GO TO EXECUTIVE SESSION, REVIEW THEM, AND THEY MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON WHO IS ON THOSE.
SO THEY ARE VOTING ON THOSE MEMBERS.
SO THE BOARD MEMBERS STILL HAVE CONTROL OF HOW MANY, WHAT TYPE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHO THEY WOULD VOTE TO BRING BROUGHT IN.
UH, AND LIKE I SAID, WE'RE WORDING IT TO WHERE EITHER THE BOARD CAN MAKE THAT DECISION OR THE COMMITTEE COULD QUICK, QUICK QUESTION.
WHERE IT SAYS A NUMBER OF APPOINTEES TO THE COMMITTEE THAT ARE NOT APPOINTED BY THE MARIN CITY COUNCIL, THAT'S US, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT THERE.
Y'ALL ARE APPOINTED BY, WE'RE APPOINTED.
ARE THERE OTHER PEOPLE THAT THE MARIN CITY COUNCIL CAN SAY, LIKE, YOU SPECIFICALLY ARE GONNA SIT ON THIS COMMITTEE? NOT WITHOUT ORDINANCE.
I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO, UH, YEAH, THE, THE WAY IT'S SET UP NOW, YOU GUYS ARE, ARE APPOINTED BY MAYOR AND COUNCIL, AND THEN ANYTHING ELSE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS SUBCOMMITTEES IS, IS THIS LANGUAGE HERE.
AND, AND AGAIN, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE THIS RECOMMENDATION, WHATEVER Y'ALL APPROVE OR, OR, OR NOT, UM, IF THERE IS A CHANGE, THEN, THEN IT WOULD BE A CODE CHANGE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE AT COUNCIL LEVEL.
SO CITY COUNCIL WOULD APPROVE, UH, ANY RECOMMENDATION COMING FROM HERE, AND IT'S TO ACTUALLY AFFECT A CODE CHANGE.
AND SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S
[01:35:01]
NOT A CASE WHERE THEY CAN JUST PICK OTHER PEOPLE TO, TO PUT 'EM ON OUR THING.SO IT'S STILL PRIMARILY US AS THE NOT APPOINTED BY OR, AND EVERYBODY THAT'S NOT US IS NOT APPOINTED BY THE, BY THE CITY COUNCIL.
I, MY ONLY RECOMMENDATION BE TO MAYBE INSTEAD OF NOT TO EXCEED US, ALWAYS BE ONE LESS THAN US.
UM, THAT MIGHT BE A PROTECTION.
'CAUSE IN MY MIND, THERE'S A, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
YOU KNOW, THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEES THAT WE DO, ELECTRICAL AND MECHANICAL, ALL THOSE THINGS ARE, YOU'RE IMPORTING CODE THAT'S BEEN WRITTEN BY, YOU KNOW, A BODY THAT'S RECOGNIZED BY THE CITY AS THE BODY THAT WRITES OUR CODES.
AND WE'RE, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSING THOSE SPECIFIC CODE TECHNICAL ITEMS ABOUT WHETHER TO ADOPT 'EM OR NOT.
WHEN YOU GOT INTO THE SIGN CODE.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A TECHNICAL CODE.
BUT WHAT HAPPENED, THOSE IN THOSE MEETINGS WAS A LOT OF, HONESTLY, IT WAS A LOT OF POLICY DEVELOPMENT MASQUERADING AS CODE CHANGES.
AND I THINK IT'S DANGEROUS TO LET THE TECHNICAL SIDE LOSE CONTROL OF, OF, OF THAT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I UNDERSTAND, I DON'T EVER WANT THE CITY TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I WAS IN THOSE MEETINGS TOO, WHERE THEY, THEY WERE ACTIVELY COMPLAINING DURING THE ME THEY WERE COMPLAINING, I'M SORRY,
UM, SO I, I THINK IT'S A GOOD BALANCE TO ADD, TO ADD THIS, IN MY OPINION.
UM, I THINK ROBERT'S POINT ABOUT THE, THE CODE OF ETHICS IS VERY, IS VERY RELEVANT.
BUT I'VE BEEN ON OTHER TASK FORCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE CITY GETS PEOPLE TOGETHER AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST TRUSTED TO, TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION.
AND THEN IT, IT DOES HAVE TO BE ADOPTED BY THIS BOARD.
WHATEVER COMES UP WITH THESE COMMITTEES DOES HAVE TO BE ADOPTED BY THE FULL BOARD THAT NOBODY ELSE GETS A VOTE ON.
SO I THINK IT'S A FAIR BALANCE OF GIVING, YOU KNOW, VOICE TO, UH, THE COMMUNITY AND, AND ISSUES THAT WE TAKE UP.
BUT ALSO WE HAVE THE CHECK OF THE, THE VETTED MEMBERS, SO TO SPEAK OF THIS BOARD, HAVE TO STAMP WHATEVER COMES OUT OF IT.
I, I WANT TO DOVETAIL ON THAT TOO, BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE, THE BOARD, THE ETHICS, THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES, YOU KNOW, I WASN'T IN ANY OF THOSE MEETINGS, BUT I'M JUST SITTING HERE GOING, WE COULD HAVE SOMEBODY SHOW UP AND SUDDENLY BECOME A VOTING MEMBER AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEIR FINANCIAL INCENTIVES ARE BEHIND IT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PIECES THAT DO IT.
SO I THINK THAT'S A PIECE THAT IF WE PUT THIS IN HERE, I MEAN, THEIR, THEIR INFORMATION IS NOT GONNA BE MADE PUBLIC.
THEIR EMAIL IS NOT GONNA BE ON THE CITY PAGE.
SO I THINK, I THINK TO STOP SOME OF THE, JUST WANT TOBES, I'LL SAY IT THAT WAY.
THEY NEED TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT WE GO OTHER THAN THE APPOINTMENT BY THE CITY, THE MAYOR AND THE CITY COUNCIL.
BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE TO DO THE ETHICS, THEY SHOULD HAVE TO DO THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE ALL THOSE SUBCOMMITTEES AND ALL OUR INFORMATION IS OUT THERE IN THE PUBLIC, AND THEY SHOULD FOLLOW THE EVERYTHING FOR THEM AS SOON AS THEY'RE ON IT.
WANNA BE ON A, A VOTING MEMBER OF A SUBCOMMITTEE, THEY SHOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO.
UM, I AGREE WITH MY COUNTERPART THAT, UH, THERE SHOULD BE FAIR REPRESENTATION.
UM, AND, AND, UH, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT NECESSARILY ON THE BOARD SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO TALK AND VOICE THEIR OPINIONS AND DIRECTION.
THEY HAVE THAT, RIGHT? THEY CAN COME TO ANY OF THE COMMITTEE MEETINGS AND, AND EXPRESS THEIR PRODUCT, EXPRESS THEIR THOUGHTS, AND THE COMMITTEE CAN, UM, WEIGH IN ON THAT AND JUDGE IT AND CONSIDER IT.
UM, IF THE COMMITTEE'S RECOMMENDATION IS AGAINST WHAT THEY SAY AS A A CITIZEN, UM, AND, UH, THE OVERALL BOARD, UH, VOTES A, UH, AGAINST, UH, THE CITIZEN, UH, THAT CAME TO THE COMMITTEE.
THE CITIZEN THEN STILL HAS THE ABILITY TO GO TO CITY COUNCIL, UH, WHEN WE ADOPT OUR NEW CODES, UM, AND, AND, UH, EXHIBIT THEIR, THEIR IDEAS THEN, UM, SO I, I THINK THEY HAVE PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS THEIR THOUGHTS AND CONCERNS, UH, FOR CONSIDERATION WITHOUT BEING A BOARD MEMBER, WITHOUT BEING A, A SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBER.
UM, AND AGAIN, THE, YEAH, THE WHOLE THING ABOUT THE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURES AND EVERYTHING THAT'S, THAT WEIGHS HEAVILY.
JUST TO CONTEND SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T SAY, BUT I THINK SPECIAL INTEREST IS, IS SOMETIMES PLAYS A BIG PART OF THAT.
I WAS LEADING, I KNOW YOU DIDN'T SAY IT, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE MEANING, BUT I WENT AHEAD AND SAID IT FOR THE RECORD, BUT GO AHEAD, MARK.
JEREMY, CAN WE CHANGE THE NAMES FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS TO SUBCOMMITTEE BECAUSE THEY'RE REALLY SUBCOMMITTEES AND WHEN WE REFER TO US, WE'RE REFERRING TO US AS THE FULL COMMITTEE.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD HELP IN, IN JUST, THIS IS A BOARD, NOT A COMMITTEE.
YOU HAVE THREE COMMITTEES OR COMMISSIONS, RIGHT? YES.
THIS IS TECHNICALLY A BOARD BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN COMMITTEES.
AND SO, BUT I MEAN, WE CAN, IF IT HELPS CLARIFY, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT.
AND THEN THE SECOND THING THAT MADE IT DIFFERENT THAN EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE, WHEN WE APPOINTED THE FOUR PEOPLE, WHICH WAS THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WE APPOINTED, THEY HAD FULL RIGHTS TO PARTICIPATE IN EVERYTHING.
LIKE THEY WERE VOTING MEMBERS OTHER THAN VOTING.
[01:40:01]
EVERY TIME, ENLISTED THEM, EVEN THOUGH IT DIDN'T COUNT TOWARDS WHERE WE WENT.BUT 99% OF EVERYTHING WE VOTED ON WAS CONSENSUS, YOU KNOW, BY EVERYBODY.
SO I, I DON'T CARE IF THEY VOTE OR THEY DON'T VOTE, I JUST THINK YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL, YOU KNOW, IN THE SELECTION WOULD, IF THEY WERE VOTING, THE SELECTION PROCESS WOULD'VE BEEN DIFFERENT.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE SIGN COMMITTEE, BECAUSE THEY WERE NON-VOTING, WE DID ONE REAL ESTATE PERSON AND THREE, UH, WHAT I WOULD CALL GENERAL CITIZENS THAT HAD A SLANTED VIEW AGAINST ANTIS SIGNS.
SO THEY WERE THE, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS AND TWO NEIGHBORHOOD, ONE CONSERVATION SOCIETY.
HAD THEY ALL BEEN VOTING VOTING'S PROBABLY WOULD'VE MADE IT TWO AND TWO, ONE BILLBOARD PERSON, ONE REAL ESTATE AND YOU KNOW, ONE NEIGHBORHOOD, MAYBE THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY.
SO I THINK THAT'S GONNA AFFECT HOW MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE GET PUT ON GOING FORWARD.
BUT ON THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEES, YOU KNOW, I JUST CANNOT, UH, I MEAN I SAT THROUGH A COUPLE OF THE, THE BSB MEETINGS AND I'M KIND OF GLAD THAT I DIDN'T GET SELECTED, EVEN THOUGH MIKE AND I PUT OUR NAMES IN BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE, IT WAS A CLUSTER.
I MEAN, THEY WENT ON FOR HOURS ABOUT MINUTIAE THAT, YOU KNOW, ADDED NOTHING TO, IN MY OPINION, TO THE DISCUSSION OF THE CODE.
AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL AND I LIKE MIKE'S IDEA THAT HOWEVER MANY YOU APPOINT NEEDS TO BE, WERE BASICALLY, I I LIKE THE WAY THIS IS RI WRITTEN BECAUSE I'M ASSUMING IF THERE ARE EIGHT PEOPLE APPOINTED TO THE COMMITTEE, IT TAKES FIVE VOTES TO MOVE SOMETHING OUT.
IS THAT CORRECT, JOSEPH? YEAH.
BUT, BUT IF ONLY FIVE PEOPLE SHOW UP, IT WOULD STILL TAKE FIVE VOTES TO APPROVE IT, CORRECT? THE WAY THAT'S WRITTEN? NO, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST A MAJORITY OF, OF THOSE WE, WE HAD, THERE'S OTHER PROVISIONS THAT, FOR INSTANCE, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WHERE THERE'S ABSOLUTE MINIMUMS. BUT FOR THESE, IT'S JUST MAJORITY.
AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A QUORUM, THEN, THEN IT'S A MAJORITY.
WELL, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT SAID.
IT SAYS A MAJORITY OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AUTHORIZED TO VOTE, WHICH MEANS THAT IF THEY'RE SERVED ON THE COMMITTEE, THEY'RE AUTHORIZED TO VOTE.
SO I THINK IF THAT'S NOT THE INTENT, YOU NEED TO JUST, IT'S, IT CORRECT LANGUAGE WOULD BE A MAJORITY OF THOSE PRESENT.
THE WAY THAT READS IS IF THERE ARE EIGHT PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE THAT ARE AUTHORIZED TO VOTE, IT WOULD TAKE FIVE VOTES TO MOVE SOMETHING FORWARD.
AND I KIND OF LIKE THAT BECAUSE THAT WAY YOU CAN'T JUST GET THE NON-VOTING MEMBERS TO HAVE CONTROL OF SOMETHING BECAUSE ONCE YOU'RE DONE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ONE ITEM THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS THAT OUR BOARD VOTED AGAINST WHAT THE SUBCOMMITTEE CAME OUT.
MAYBE ONE OR TWO, THE WHOLE PROCESS.
AND SO WE RELY ON THOSE COMMITTEES TO DO THE WORK OR ELSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REHASH EVERYTHING.
SO, UH, JUST REAL QUICK SUMMARY.
SO IT LOOKS LIKE RECOMMENDED CHANGES AT THIS POINT ARE TO MAKE SURE WE LIMIT THE COMM NON APPOINTED NUMBERS TO LESS THAN BY ONE INSTEAD OF EQUAL TO.
AND THEN ALSO, UM, LOOK AT CHANGING THE MAJORITY REQUIREMENTS TO BE MAJORITY OF ALL VERSUS AND, AND CLARIFY THAT LANGUAGE, WHAT MARK'S SAYING.
THOSE ARE SOME GOOD RECOMMENDATIONS.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR HERE.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO MAKE A FINAL DECISION.
WE WANT TO JUST, YOU KNOW, WE TOOK WHAT Y'ALL SAID LAST TIME, UH, TRY TO, YOU KNOW, ADD THAT TO THE LANGUAGE AND THEN GIVE Y'ALL A LITTLE BIT MORE FORMALIZED LANGUAGE.
UM, WE CAN DEFINITELY DO THAT.
WE'LL LOOK AT THE, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE WORK LANGUAGE.
UH, I'VE ALWAYS CALLED A COMMITTEE, BUT EVERYBODY I ALWAYS TALK TO CALLS IT SUBCOMMITTEE 'CAUSE THAT'S JUST WHAT THEY'RE INGRAINED WITH.
AND I'D RATHER JUST BE UNIFORM ACROSS THE BOARD.
SO IF, IF WE'RE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO CALL IT SUBCOMMITTEE, LET'S JUST DO THAT AND BE DONE WITH IT.
UH, BUT YEAH, WE, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
THERE'S SOME PROVISIONS IN THE ARTICLE TWO THAT GO INTO IT TOO, BUT WE'LL MAKE IT ALL WORK.
SO, UM, AND I, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, I TALKED TO, UM, OTHERS BEFOREHAND.
THEY GOT SOME GOOD RECOMMENDATION I THINK, AND THEY CAN SEND ME SOMETHING INDIVIDUALLY CORRECT.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, HEY, THIS IS SOME IDEAS I HAVE AND I CAN INCORPORATE THOSE AS LONG AS I PRESENT THAT TO THE BOARD BEFORE ANY SURE.
UM, NOW, AND I'LL LOOK INTO THE REQUIREMENTS.
UH, WE CAN TALK TO THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE, BUT I, ROBERT, I KNOW YOU SAID ON THE P TAC, WHAT IS THE PTAC? AND I KNOW MY DIRECTOR'S HERE AND HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT.
BUT NOT ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE PTAG GO OR SIT ON A BORDER COMMISSION, CORRECT? SOME OF THOSE ARE, OR DO EVERY ONE OF THOSE SIT ON A BORDER COMMISSION FOR THE CITY? NO, O ONLY CERTAIN SLOTS LIKE ZONING, THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT PLANNING COMMISSION HAS A COUPLE.
SO THERE'S EAR CAN USE THE MIC.
[01:45:01]
UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE CORRECT.THERE, THERE ARE CERTAIN SLOTS ON THERE, LIKE THE ZONING COMMISSION, THERE'S A COUPLE FOR PLANNING COMMISSION, THERE'S BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
THOSE ARE SLOTS, BUT THE REST OF THEM DO NOT REPRESENT OTHER BOARDS OR COMMISSIONS NECESSARILY THEIR CITIZENS AT LARGE.
DO YOU KNOW IF THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW THE ETHICS OR GO THROUGH ALL THAT PROCESS WITH THE FDR? ABSOLUTELY.
SO THERE'S A PRECEDENCE FOR THAT.
SO IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S YEAH, WE'LL GET WITH THE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AS WELL.
IT'S NICE TO, I DON'T HAVE TO INVENT THE WILL.
AND ALL OF THOSE MEMBERS THAT ARE NOT, UH, ASSIGNED, UM, BY THE, THE BOARDS THAT THEY SERVE, UM, ARE REQUIRED TO BE APPROVED BY THE LARGER, LIKE US PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO EVERY TIME YOU REAPPLY, YOU COME IN HERE, YOU INTERVIEW AND YOU'RE EITHER RE YOU ARE REAPPOINTED TO THAT PARTICULAR PC T COMMITTEE.
BUT IT DOESN'T GO THROUGH COUNCIL, RIGHT.
AND ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE THAT LANGUAGE THERE CURRENTLY OF WHETHER YOU WANNA BE DONE AT THE BOARD.
Y'ALL CAN MAKE THE DECISION, HEY, WE WANNA DO THIS, THE BOARD, OR YOU KNOW WHAT, NO, LET'S LET THE COMMITTEE HANDLE THAT.
BUT ULTIMATELY WHATEVER A MEMBER GETS ADDED THAT'S NOT APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL WOULD BE HANDLED, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THIS BOARD OR THAT COMMITTEE LEAD, UH, OR SOME COMMITTEE IF THAT'S WHERE WE MOVE TO THE TERMINOLOGY.
SO THOSE ARE THE, UH, THAT'S, I'LL RESEARCH THAT AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
'CAUSE THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGER HANGUPS AND I AGREE WITH THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, Y'ALL ARE VETTED AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, WE'LL ALSO DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH OF WHAT OTHER INFORMATION CAN Y'ALL ASK FOR, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS Y'ALL'S, UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE FULL FDR AND WHO GETS TO LOOK AT THAT.
BUT ALSO, I KNOW Y'ALL HAD SOME QUESTIONS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE WHO, YOU KNOW, WHO'S BACKING YOU OR YOU KNOW, IS IT, IS IT SPECIAL INTEREST OR IS IT REALLY JUST YOU AS A ORGANI ORGANIZER AND YOU KNOW, I I REPRESENT, YOU KNOW, 20 OR 30 NEIGHBORHOODS.
UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE, WE, WE WILL VET THAT AND SEE WHAT QUESTIONS Y'ALL CAN ASK AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT REQUIREMENTS WE WOULD HAVE THROUGH AN APPLICATION PROCESS, UH, THAT Y'ALL WOULD BE ABLE TO REVIEW.
UM, WE'LL COME BACK TO THIS, BUT YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL DEFINITELY FOLLOW UP WITH THIS.
I'LL, UH, I'LL WORK ON THIS, GET ALL THAT INFORMATION, PROVIDE SOME STUFF, AND, UH, GIVE Y'ALL SOME OTHER LANGUAGE OF THIS.
AS JUSTICE SAID, IT SEEMS LIKE Y'ALL CAN, YOU KNOW, FEEL FREE TO PROVIDE ME INDIVIDUAL COMMENTS THAT I CAN INCORPORATE, UM, AS WELL AND BRING TO Y'ALL AS A FULL TIME BOARD.
[ Director's Report ]
I THINK I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF I ITEMS. ALL RIGHT.UM, SO WILLIAM BARR, AS YOU ALREADY POINTED OUT, FDRS ARE DUE APRIL 2ND.
UM, SO THOSE THAT HAVE COMPLETED THEM, I APPRECIATE THAT.
I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO, UH, PULL THE REPORT TO SEE, I KNOW A COUPLE OF Y'ALL HAVE REACHED OUT AND LET ME KNOW.
UM, SO IF Y'ALL EMAIL ME AND SAY, HEY, I'VE GOT IT, I'LL, I'LL PULL THE REPORT AT SOME POINT AND CONFIRM AND I'LL EMAIL YOU BACK.
I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME TIMES WHERE GLITCHES HAS GONE THROUGH AND IT'S LIKE, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT? CITY CLERKS HASN'T SAID IT'S BEEN DONE, AND I'LL GET YOU IN CONTACT WITH THEM IF Y'ALL FOR SOME REASON HAVE, BUT, UH, APRIL 2ND.
UM, SO I'LL PROBABLY EMAIL EVERYBODY OUT AS A REMINDER, EARLY MARCH AND THE PHONE CALL START, YOU KNOW, LATE MARCH.
SO, UH, HOPEFULLY EVERYBODY'S WRAPPED UP BEFORE THEN.
UM, AND THEN ALSO, UH, WE ARE REACHING OUT TO, UH, CITY COUNCIL'S OFFICE OR ACTUALLY THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE.
THAT'S THE ONE THAT, UH, OVERSEES I, UH, GETTING US SOME COMMITTEES, UH, THE PCDC AND APPROVING ANY VACANCIES.
UH, MY BIG HANGUP RIGHT NOW IS I DON'T HAVE THE SIGN CODE, UH, POSITION AND THERE'S GENERAL CONTRACTOR AND A FEW VACANCIES THAT I'M REALLY TRYING TO PUSH.
UM, I'LL BE REACHING OUT TO THOSE THAT ARE, UM, I HAD ONE TERM LIKE, UH, GREG, I THINK YOU'RE ONE OF THEM ON, UH, WHETHER Y'ALL WANNA SIT ON, UM, GO AHEAD AND GET REAPPOINTED OR SIT AS A, UH, NON, YOU TRY AS A HOLDOVER MEMBER.
UM, AND MOSTLY Y'ALL ARE HOLDOVERS AND, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY ASKING TO TAKE OFF SOME POSITION, SO WE'LL PROBABLY KEEP IT THE HOLDOVER, BUT WE'LL SEE WHAT CITY COUNCIL HAS, UH, WHEN WE GO TO THAT COMMITTEE.
UH, IF THERE'S ANY PUSHBACK ON THAT, WE'LL UH, FOLLOW UP.
BUT I'LL BE PUSHING THROUGH WITH THAT HOPEFULLY IN THE NEXT SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS TRYING TO GET THAT RESOLVED.
BUT I'M WORKING WITH CITY CLERK'S OFFICE RIGHT NOW.
ANYTHING, WILLIAM? THANK YOU, JEREMY.
I KNOW YOU, YOU BRIEFLY DISCUSSED IT, UH, AT OUR LAST MEETING, BUT, UH, ANY UPDATES ON THE, UH, 2024 ICC ADOPTION? UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF CHANGES OR INITIATIVE TO WANT TO ADOPT THAT, UH, BUT I WAS JUST CURIOUS.
UM, ACTUALLY YOU'RE, I, I OWE MY BOSS, UM, A SUMMARY OF THE CHANGES.
I'M, I'M ABOUT THREE WEEKS BEHIND ON THAT.
UM, I WILL GET THAT WRAPPED UP THIS WEEK.
BUT YEAH, THEY, THEY ASKED US, UH, SO WE'VE, WE'VE LOOKED AT THE, UH, 2124 CHANGES, UH, AND I'VE ASKED MY CHIEFS TO, UH, REVIEW THOSE AND GIVE ME, YOU KNOW, HIGH TICKET ITEM, LIKE WHAT ARE THE BIG, UM, YOU KNOW, COST IMPACTS, WHETHER THEY BE POSITIVE NEGATIVES.
LUCKILY I ACTUALLY DID SEE A COUPLE ON THE MECHANICAL SIDE THAT WERE, UH, POSITIVES ON, ON THE FINANCIAL SIDE.
UM, WE UNDERSTAND WITH THE CODE, USUALLY IT'S NOT THAT CASE.
USUALLY IT IS, YOU KNOW, MORE COST IMPERATIVE.
SO IT'S, WELL WHAT IS THAT? WHAT ARE WE GETTING AND GAINING ON THE, UH, SAFETY SIDE? UH, SO TRYING TO COMPILE IT DOWN TO LIKE 50 OR 60 SIGNIFICANT ITEMS FOR THE DIRECTOR, UH, TO REVIEW AND, AND FACTOR THAT
[01:50:01]
INTO HIS DECISION.BUT AT THIS POINT, AND UNLESS MIKE WANTS TO SAY MORE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE WEIGHING THAT OPTION AND SEEING IS THAT SOMETHING WE WANNA LOOK INTO, UH, OR MOVE INTO THE 2020 SEVENS.
AND UH, JUST TO ADD, I, AND THE REASON I ASK IS I ALWAYS KNOW, UH, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S ALWAYS BEEN ON THE FOREFRONT OF THE ADOPTION PROCESS AND UH, THEY'RE KNOWN FOR THAT AROUND THE COUNTRY.
UH, I WORK AROUND THE COUNTRY AND UH, IT'S A KUDOS TO YOU GUYS, UH, FOR DOING THAT.
JEREMY, ROBERT HANLEY, UH, USUALLY IN THE HISTORY OF DOING THESE CODE UPDATES ON THIS THREE YEAR CYCLE, THE BIG CHANGES, MAYBE NOT IN MECHA IIMC OF THE FPC, IT'S USUALLY THE FIRE CODE AND IT'S THE ENERGY CODE.
SO THOSE ARE THE TWO THAT PROBABLY, UH, IN, AS YOU DO YOUR REVIEW AND YOU MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO A MADE IS PROBABLY WHERE YOU'RE GONNA PROBABLY HAVE MORE OF YOUR, UH, SIGNIFICANT CHANGES THAT IMPACT THE INDUSTRY.
AND THEY TOLD ME, DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THE ENERGY CODE 'CAUSE THEY KNEW THOSE, IT'S A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE BETWEEN 21 AND 24.
THAT'S, THAT WAS TOO BIG OF A DOCUMENT FOR ME TO HAND OVER, UH, FOR THEM TO REVIEW.
THEY'LL JUST REVIEW THE WHOLE CHAPTER.
UH, BUT YEAH, NO, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY BY THE, I THINK BY THE NEXT TIME WE HAVE A MEETING, UNLESS I GET AN APPEAL TOMORROW, UH, HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE SOME BETTER INSIGHT OF WHAT, WHAT THE, THE CITY'S DECISION'S GONNA BE ON MOVING FORWARD BETWEEN THE 24 AND 27.
WE DON'T HAVE ALL ANYTHING ELSE.