* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] I'D LIKE TO CALL THE ORDER AT THE [ No cases to be heard until 4:00 P.M. 12:30 P.M. - Commissioners will participate in a virtual training. 4:00 P.M. – Call to Order] HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING FOR, UM, MARCH 20TH, 2024. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CASTILLO? HERE. SINO? HERE. VELASQUEZ. HERE. GALLOWAY. HERE. MOOKA? HERE. GUEVARA. HERE. GROUP. HERE. CERVANTES. HERE. HOLLAND? HERE. FETZER HERE. AND GIBBS HERE. WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. THE HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS IN, EXCUSE ME, MR. CHAIR. WE'LL HAVE OUR, UM, ANNOUNCEMENT FROM INTERPRETIVE SERVICES FIRST. THANK YOU. CAN I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT FROM INTERPRETER SERVICE, PLEASE? GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. THE STORE DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I AM JAYMAR GIBBS CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE CHAIR IS JEFFREY FETZER. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER IN ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN THE STORY DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY AND THE RIVER OVERLAY, I'M SORRY, THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. AND FOR DEMOLITIONS AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEETS. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF OR REPRESENTATIVE OF A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR TWO MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON. SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY'RE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. GOOD. GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY. UM, FIRST ITEM [Approval of Minutes] IS APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM MARCH 6TH. I HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES, MR. CHAIR. SECOND. UM, WILL I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? THANK YOU. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THE MOTION. THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY. SECOND. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? CASTILLO? AYE. SINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. MOOKA. AYE. GIADA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THIS TIME WE CAN LOOK [CONSENT AGENDA Items are placed on the consent agenda when staff recommends approval or recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant agrees to. Any member of the public desiring to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and be heard prior to voting on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda and have it placed on the individual consideration agenda. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.  ] AT THE SCREEN. UM, WE HAVE SIX ITEMS THAT WERE SCHEDULED FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. UM, WE DO HAVE, UM, IN-PERSON SPEAKERS, UM, FOR A COUPLE OF THOSE ITEMS. SO I'LL CALL THOSE UP NOW, UH, BEGINNING WITH SARAH GOULD. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, MY NAME IS SARAH GOULD. I AM MY DISTRICT SEVEN RESIDENT, BUT THIS IS, UH, DISTRICT FIVE. UM, I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MEXICAN AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS INSTITUTE, AND I'VE BEEN REALLY HAPPY THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO WORK WITH THE CITY ON, ON SOME HONORARY STREET DESIGNATIONS STARTING LAST YEAR WITH EDMONTON YOKO MEMORIAL WAY, UH, WHICH THIS BODY, UH, APPROVED. WE'RE NOW WORKING TO HAVE EQUALLY RECOGNIZED ON THE STREET WHERE SHE LIVED FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS. [00:05:01] AND, UM, WE APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT WITH THIS. THANK YOU. SANDRA SANCHEZ. HI, GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M SANDRA SANCHEZ. I'M THE GREAT NIECE OF HOVI JUAREZ. AND COULD SUGGEST YOUR MIC, MA'AM, BRING IT DOWN. OKAY, SURE. IS THAT BETTER? OKAY. SO ANYWAY, GOOD AFTERNOON, . I AM THE, UH, GREAT NIECE OF HOVI JUAREZ, AND OF COURSE I'M A LITTLE BIAS. I'M FOUR AND, UM, YES, SHE DID LIVE ON, UH, BED STREET. AND, UM, THE REASON I THINK THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD DO THIS IS TO BRING AWARENESS TO, UM, SAN ANTONIANS, TO TEXANS, TO AMERICANS, UH, ABOUT WHAT SHE'S DONE, YOU KNOW, FOR SOUTH TEXAS MOSTLY. SO, THAT'S IT. THANK YOU RAFAEL SANCHEZ. GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. UH, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO JUST BASICALLY WANNA SAY I'M, EXCUSE ME, SIR, INTRODUCE YOURSELF. PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, PLEASE. OH, YES, RAPHAEL, S UH, THAT WAS MY WIFE. I'M IN SUPPORT FOR THE FAMILY OF, UH, NAMING THE STREET. UH, THE, UH, I'M FOR IT BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT IN LINE WITH THE US MINT, UH, UH, HAVING THE COIN, BUT IT ALSO REPRESENTS THE CITY REALLY WELL, AND IT'S A BIG PLUS FOR THE CITY IN THAT REGARD. SO, UH, I'M ALL FOR IT. AND, AND HOPEFULLY I'M ASKING FOR YOUR SUPPORT, PUT IT THAT WAY TOO, FOR THE NAMING. AND THAT'S IT. THANK YOU AGAIN. THANK YOU. UH, FOR ITEM TWO, WE HAVE SAM PAN. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I'M SAM CHE, I'M THE OWNER OF YOUR RESTAURANTS ON THE RIVERWALK. AND I JUST, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHY I AM SPEAKING ACTUALLY, UNLESS THERE'S QUESTIONS, BUT, UM, I JUST WANT TO, I APPRECIATE THE WORK YOU'RE DOING AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR TAKING A LOOK AGAIN WITH THE COMMITTEE LAST WEEK ON THE PROJECT AT LEVITA. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THAT'S TRUE. SAM, I FORGOT YOU'RE THE APPLICANT. I JUST SAW YOUR NAME AND READ IT. UM, AND DAVID ES STRANGE IS ALSO SIGNED IN TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT, BUT HE'S ALSO PART OF THE APPLICATION TEAM. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY OTHER, UH, SPEAKERS OR VOICEMAILS FOR ITEMS ON CONSENT. THANK YOU. DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY ITEMS? I DO, SIR. I'LL POLL NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO. ITEM THE ONE AND TWO. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO POLL ITEM NUMBER FIVE. ITEM FIVE. MR. CHAIR. WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA. THAT WOULD BE THREE, FOUR, AND SIX STAFF STIPULATIONS? YES, SIR. WHAT STAFF STIPULATIONS THERE? SECOND. SECOND. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY. SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CASTILLO? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA. AYE. GIDA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 4 21 EAST COMMERCE TWO 11 WIX AND 3 23 CEDAR, YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER OR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. OKAY? OKAY. SO ITEM ONE IS, UM, A REQUEST FROM THE CITY AND SO STAFF CAN FIELD ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. UM, OHP, UM, AS WELL AS DSD STAFF ARE AVAILABLE. HI, GOOD AFTERNOON, CLAYTON WALLACE, PLANNING COORDINATOR WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UM, LIKE CORY SAID, THIS IS A MEMORIAL DESIGNATION REQUEST SUBMITTED BY CITY COUNCIL DISTRICT FIVE FOR, UM, A MEMORIAL DESIGNATION ON ROBERT B. GREEN WAY, UH, TO CREATE THE MEMORIAL DE DESIGNATION OF JOTA IAR MEMORIAL WAY. UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, HAPPY TO ANSWER 'EM. YES. UM, AGAIN, I I JUST WANNA ACKNOWLEDGE THE, THE ACHIEVEMENTS OF BOTH INDIVIDUALS AND I APPRECIATE, UH, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE WITH, UH, UH, HONORING MS. HOVITA YAR. I JUST WANNA KNOW, WHAT ARE WE DOING TO CONTINUE TO HONOR ROBERT GREEN? I SEE HE HAS A HOSPITAL, A NAMED, NAMED AFTER HIM, BUT IS, IS THE SIGN GONNA BE CHANGED TO SOMETHING THAT COMBINES BOTH NAMES OR, YEAH, SO THE STREET IS ACTUALLY GONNA REMAIN ROBERT B GREENWAY. UM, THERE'S TWO SEPARATE PROCESSES OF [00:10:01] EITHER, YOU CAN EITHER DO A FULL STREET, UH, RENAME OR YOU CAN DO THE MEMORIAL DESIGNATION. UH, THE MEMORIAL DESIGNATION IS TYPICALLY, UM, YOU KNOW, ANYONE CAN APPLY FOR TO CITY COUNCIL CAN REQUEST IT, AND IT INVOLVES THE CREATION OF THOSE BROWN. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE SEEN THEM. THEY'RE GENERALLY, YOU MIGHT SEE 'EM ON THE SIDE OF THE HIGHWAY, UM, OR AROUND TOWN, BUT IT'LL JUST BE A BROWN SIGN THAT'S STANDALONE. AND SO IN THIS CASE IT'LL SAY HOVITA DARMA MEMORIAL WAY, AND THEN ADDITION TO THE ROBERT B. GREEN, UH, WEIGH SIGNS THAT WILL REMAIN IN PLACE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR. YEAH, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS. I HAVE A MOTION I MOTION TO APPROVE AS, UH, AS PRESENTED RIGHT WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS RATHER SECOND SPEND, MOVE AND PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? CASTILLO? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA AYE. GIDA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. ITEM TWO, PLEASE. UH, THIS IS ITEM 2 5 15 V TO STREET. UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, SAM, UH, IS HERE IN PERSON AGAIN. OKAY, HERE WE GO. THANK YOU. AND BEFORE YOU GET STARTED, I KNOW YOU ALREADY INTRODUCE YOURSELF, BUT ONCE AGAIN FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, SIR. UH, SAM PONCHE. I'M THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, WELL, THE TENANT OF THE PROPERTY. THANK YOU. OKAY, SIR? YES. UH, THREE THINGS. MR. MR. CHAIR THAT I HAD, UH, WANTED TO BRING UP. ONE, I WAS LOOKING TO SEE, UH, HOW THE SITE VISIT WENT, IF, IF ANYBODY WOULD JUST BRIEFLY TALK ABOUT THE SITE VISIT. UM, AND THEN I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE, THE BALCONY WINDOW THAT'S IN THE BACK THERE. IS THAT STAFF, IS THAT AN ORIGINAL DESIGN? IS THAT ORIGINAL TO THE, THE, THE RAILING IN THAT, THAT BALCONY WINDOW, THAT LITTLE GREEN BALCONY WINDOW THAT STICKS OUT? IS THAT ORIGINAL TO THE PROPERTY? IS THAT, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT, UH, NO. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO THE ONE THAT'S BEING REPLACED WITH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S INDIFFERENT TO WHAT WAS THERE BEFORE THEN, RIGHT? FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WINDOW'S BEING REPLACED. NO. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF THE RENDERING OF WHAT THE, THE BALCONY WINDOW'S GONNA LOOK LIKE IN THE BACK, IT DOESN'T LOOK ANYTHING LIKE THAT ONE THERE. YES. UM, WE DID MAKE A SITE VISIT AND, UH, LOOKED AT SEVERAL THINGS. ONE WAS THE, UH, THE MURALS THAT ARE ACTUALLY, UH, VINYL THAT IS APPLIED TO THE STUCCO FINISH. AND, UM, THE APPLICANT SHOWED THAT, UH, REMOVAL OF THE VINYL DOES NOT, UH, DAMAGE THE STUCCO BENEATH. UM, ONE OF THE RENDERINGS WAS A LITTLE, UH, CONFUSING AND WE CLARIFIED, LEMME SEE IF I CAN FIND THE DRAWING. UH, SLIDE 31. THIS RENDERING APPEARS TO SHOW A MURAL ON A FREESTANDING WALL. UH, THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE CASE. IT IS A, UH, VINYL MURAL APPLIED TO THE SIDE OF THE ADJACENT BUILDING, WHICH, UH, LIEUTENANT, IF YOU GO TO A SLIDE 25, YEAH, THAT, UH, TAN WALL IS WHERE THAT, UH, THE LARGE MURAL IS ON THE, ON THE, UH, RIVERSIDE. UM, SO THAT WAS CLARIFIED. UM, WE ALSO CLARIFIED THAT THE, THE POSTS FOR THE, THE TRELLIS WOULD BE, UH, PAINTED STEEL TO MATCH THE PAINTED STEEL RAILINGS AND THAT THE, UH, HORIZONTAL MEMBERS WOULD BE ALL WOOD FRAMED. THANK YOU. AND JUST MY FINAL THIRD AND FINAL QUESTION ON, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, STIPULATION FOR THE ALTER ON THE FRONT, UH, I JUST WANNA LOOK AT THE VERBIAGE HERE AND MAKE SURE I, I'M GETTING IT RIGHT. UH, CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, NOTING THE HEIGHT, DEPTH, AND CONSTRUCTION MEANS OF THE ALTER TO BE SUBMITTED TO OHP STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. WHAT EXACTLY IS OHP STAFF GONNA BE LOOKING FOR TO APPROVE THAT? UH, ESSENTIALLY A DOCUMENT THAT NOTES THAT THE STRUCTURE WON'T BE ATTACHED TO THE HISTORIC WALL. UH, AND THE APPLICANTS NOTED THAT THE STRUCTURE IS TO BE BUILT IN A MEANS WHERE IT CAN BE REMOVED IF NEEDED. UH, SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT IS WELL DESIGNED BUT TEMPORARY IN NATURE AND THAT WON'T DAMAGE THE EXISTING SITE PAVING OR, UH, HISTORIC STRUCTURES WALL. [00:15:02] OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIR? MR. CHAIR? YES. GO AHEAD. AND I WAS ALSO AT THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AND I, UH, THANK YOU ALSO FOR SUBMITTING THE, UH, PICTURES OF THE MOCKUP OF THE TRELLIS, WHICH WAS ANOTHER ITEM THAT WAS ON DISCUSSION AND I THINK, UM, THE MOCKUP, UM, SO WE ASKED THE APPLICANT TO, IF YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S LIKE THIS TEMPORARY WOOD, JUST THE, THE LIGHT WOOD RIGHT THERE. YEAH. THEY PUT UP TO KIND OF SHOW US THAT WOULD BE THE MAX HEIGHT MAX, UH, WHERE IT COMES OUT, UM, TO KIND OF JUST HAVE A VISUAL OF THE IMPACT. AND WE ASKED THEM FOR A PICTURE FROM THE RIVER, WHICH I GUESS WAS THE PREVIOUS SLIDE. YEP. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. AND, UM, I'M READY TO DO A MOTION. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. OKAY. UH, I ALSO ATTENDED THE SITE VISIT AND APPRECIATED THE INFORMATION PROVIDED, UM, IN THE CONVERSATION ABOUT ITEM NUMBER FOUR, THE ALTAR IN THE FRONT. YES. UM, YES, YOU MAY, YOU CLARIFIED THAT IT WOULD BE SEPARATE STRUCTURALLY SEPARATE FROM THE BUILDING AND THE WAY IT WAS BEING DESCRIBED. THAT ALTER WOULD NOT BE OBSCURING THE WINDOW OPENING. IS THAT CORRECT? COMPLETELY AGREE. IT'LL BE LOWER THAN THE ACTUAL WINDOW OPENING. YOU WANT TO KEEP THE, IF YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF IT, YOU WANT TO KEEP THE WINDOW, UM, IN FULL SIGHT OF EVERYONE. SURE. EXACTLY. YES. GREAT. GREAT. AND THEN, UM, TO THE, TO THE MASSING MOCKUP OF THE VIEW FROM THE RIVER, I APPRECIATE SEEING THAT THAT IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE RIGHT OF WAY VIEW IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE VITA STREET VIEW FROM THE FRONT. SO I APPRECIATE THAT ADDITIONAL PHOTO MONTAGE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF I MAY HAVE A MOTION? I GUESS I JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION. UM, PER STAFF RECOMMENDATION ITEM ONE, THE APPLICANT HAS, UM, COMPLIED WITH THE STIPULATION CORRECT? WITH WHAT'S SUBMITTED TODAY? UH, CORRECT. SO THE FIRST PART OF THAT WAS THAT THE TRELLIS IS WE PAINTED TO COMPLIMENT THE EXISTING TONES AND COLORS FOUND HISTORICALLY ON SITE THE UPDATED RENDERING, UH, NOTES, COMPLIANCE WITH THAT. AND TWO, THE INSTALLATION OF THE PROPOSED TRELLIS STRUCTURE SHOULD NOT RESULT IN ANY RAINWATER DRAINAGE DRAINING IN ONTO THE PUBLIC PATHWAY AT THE RIVERWALK. UH, IT'S OPEN, SO IT'S NOT GONNA CAST OR NOT IN ANY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT WATER, SO, CORRECT. YES. MM-HMM, , THANK YOU. AND I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR STAFF. WE NOTICED ON SITE, UM, WORK BEING DONE REPAIR WORK BEING DONE ON PORCH COVERINGS AND BALCONY COVERINGS UPSTAIRS. IS THAT BEING ADDRESSED WITH ADMINISTRATIVE COAS? UH, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF ADMIN COAS, UH, FOR PAINTING AND REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE, UH, THE WINDOW REPAIR THAT'S ON THE, AT THE STREET LEVEL. UM, IF NOT, THEN STAFF WILL ADDRESS THAT WITH THE APPLICANT. I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT SPECIFIC COAS TO SEE WHAT ALL HAS BEEN ISSUED. OKAY. THAT'D BE GOOD. THANK YOU. I MOVE TO APPROVE WITH, UM, STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY. SECOND, IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF NOT, MAY I, I JUST WANT TO, I JUST WANNA NOTE THAT, UM, I WILL PROBABLY BE APPROVING THIS MOTION, BUT I, I WANNA ALSO ON THE RECORD STATE THAT THIS WAS THIS BUILDING OR THIS, THIS WAS A HOME, I THINK INITIALLY STARTING OUT WITH WHEN IT WAS BUILT, IT WAS A HOME. SO AS IT'S BEING ADAPTED TO COMMERCIAL USE, I WOULD HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU DO WITH IT, UH, THAT IT FLOURISHES AND IT SUCCEEDS, BUT YOU ALSO KIND OF KEEP IT LOOKING LIKE A HOME. YOU KIND OF KEEP THAT AESTHETIC, YOU KNOW, AS, UH, AS YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR, UH, SUPPORT IN TRYING TO, TO, TO KEEP THIS ON, ON PAR WITH THE REST OF THE, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU. FURTHER OF DISCUSSION, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CASTILLO? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. MOOKA AYE. GIDA AYE GROUP? AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ITEM NUMBER FIVE? YES, THIS IS THE REQUEST FOR 1 3 4 EAST MULBERRY. I DON'T BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS WITH US VIRTUALLY. COREY, CAN YOU CONFIRM THE APPLICANT IS ALBERTO ENCINO? NO. UM, WITHOUT THE APPLICANT HERE, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THIS BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT I REPRESENTATIVE. YEAH, WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE THAT CAN, THAT CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS. OKAY. HELLO? JAMES MCKNIGHT 1 1 2 EAST PECAN. YES, MA'AM. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. HOLD ON A SECOND. UM, THIS IS REQUESTING THE C OF A C OF A FOR OKAY. YEAH, I DIDN'T, FOR HIS REPLACEMENT GARAGE [00:20:01] FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE STAFF HAS A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS. SOME OF THEM ARE QUITE BASIC. MM-HMM. AND QUITE STANDARD THAT DON'T APPEAR THAT IN MY MIND, UM, PRESENT AN INCOMPLETE, UH, APPLICATION. SO I JUST WANTED TO, UM, UH, REVISE THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATION TO AN APPROVAL FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT RETURN WITH THE FINAL DRAWINGS AND FULFILLING FINAL STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND THAT AND I'D LIKE, UM, I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK SURE. BEFORE I FORMALLY MAKE THAT MOTION. YEAH, PLEASE. NO. UH, SO YEAH, THE, HIS, UH, CONTRACTOR WAS THE ONE MAKING THE DRAWINGS. I DON'T THINK HE UNDER FULLY UNDERSTOOD THAT MAYBE THEY NEEDED TO BE THAT DETAILED WORKING WITH STAFF. OUR UNDERSTANDING, OR THEIR UNDERSTANDING I SHOULD SAY, WAS THAT ALL OF THOSE THINGS WOULD HAVE TO BE MET AS THAT PERMIT WOULD COME FORWARD. FOR, FOR INSTANCE, THE, THE WOOD DOORS, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SHOW THAT THAT WOULD, WOULD BE A WOOD DOOR BEFORE THEY WOULD ACTUALLY ISSUE THAT PERMIT, THAT THE HEIGHT WAS CORRECT. THEY'RE SHOWING THE SLOPE, THEY'RE SHOWING THE PLATE HEIGHT, SO YOU KNOW, THE ROOF IS ROUGHLY 13 FEET HIGH. THOSE ISSUES WOULD ALL BE MET AND CAN WORK WITH, THEY CAN WORK WITH STAFF TO GET THAT BEFORE THEY GET THEIR PERMIT. AND THAT WAS THEIR UNDERSTANDING. SO THEY FELT LIKE THAT WAS ENOUGH. OKAY. UM, I STILL FEEL LIKE, UM, AND, AND BELIEVE TO, TO BE FAIR TO OTHER APPLICANTS WHO DO PRESENT FULL, UH, DRAWINGS THAT SHOW THE FINISH HEIGHT, THAT SHOW THESE THINGS. UM, I, I THINK IT WOULD BE, UM, FAIR AND ALSO INFORMATIVE TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL AS TO THE, THE DATABASE THAT WE HAVE A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS POINT. AND IF THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT, UM, THOSE ARE THE ELEMENTS THAT WOULD BE ADDED, UH, FOR A FINAL, THEN WE'LL LOOK AT THEM THEN. OKAY. I MEAN, HE, HE HE'S GOING TO PROVIDE ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT I MEAN, WE ARE SURE. YEAH, SURE. THANK YOU. CONSISTENCY. SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO, UM, ACCEPT, UH, TO, UM, APPROVE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND, SO JUST IF I MAY ASK A COMMENT OR QUESTION. UM, WELL, UM, OKAY, WAIT A MINUTE. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECONDED, BUT GO AHEAD AND YOU ASK YOUR QUESTION. WELL, I GUESS IT CAN BE A DISCUSSION BECAUSE I WANTED TO ASK COMMISSIONER SAVINO, I MEAN, UM, OR MAYBE STAFF. I MEAN, I DO SEE A SALVAGE PLAN. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THERE, I MEAN, IS IT A MORE FULL ESTABLISHED PLAN THAT YOU WANT? I MEAN, THE WINDOW STIPULATION IS ALWAYS GONNA BE THERE ALMOST, YOU KNOW, AT EVERY POINT THEY DID SUBMIT ONE WOOD DOOR SPECIFICATION. YEAH. THESE ARE RELATIVELY NORMAL STIPULATIONS. I MEAN, MOST, MOST ITEMS WILL HAVE A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS THAT GET DOCUMENTED WITH STAFF BEFORE WE ISSUE THE COA. IT'S JUST ABOUT THE DOCUMENTATION. IT IS ULTIMATELY THE DISCRETION OF THE COMMISSION IF THEY WANT TO SEE THOSE UPDATES HERE, UM, FOR, FOR ACTION, FOR FINAL APPROVAL. UM, BUT THAT IS, IT IS NORMAL BECAUSE THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED IT, YOU'RE JUST PUTTING THEM THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE STANDARD STIPULATION THAT WILL BE THERE ALWAYS UNTIL IT'S CONSTRUCTED. RACHEL, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DO HAVE THOSE THINGS DOCUMENTED. I'M SORRY, ONE MORE TIME. THE SALVAGE AND REUSE PLAN? YES. SO THE SALVAGE AND REUSE PLAN HAS NOT BEEN SUBMITTED WITH THIS PACKAGE. UH, SO STAFF IS REQUESTING THAT BEFORE A COA IS ISSUED. ADDITIONALLY, THE FINAL, UM, HEIGHT OF THE STRUCTURE, SO WE DO SEE THAT THE TOP PLATE IS NINE FEET, BUT BEFORE THE COA WOULD BE ISSUED, WE WOULD REQUEST THAT A FULLY DIMENSION DRAWINGS ARE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND THEN THE MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AS WELL. SO THE ISSUE IS WHETHER IT COMES BACK TO THIS COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL OR IF THAT IS DEFERRED TO STAFF FOR ACTION. AND MAY I ADD ALSO, MR. CHAIR THAT, UM, ASSUMING THAT APPLICA THE APPLICANT SUBMITS ALL OF THOSE DETAILS AND UPDATED DRAWINGS TO SHOW THE, UM, SUBORDINATE, UM, CONCEPT RELATIVE TO THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, UM, IT COULD GO ON CONSENT FOR THE NEXT TIME. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WELL, MR. CHAIR, I, I, UM, UH, FI FIND AGREEMENT WITH, UM, COMMISSIONER GROUP, UM, AND I DO WANNA BE RESPECTFUL OF THE MOTION BECAUSE IT, IT DOES ALSO, UM, NEED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH OTHER, UM, DECISIONS THAT WE'VE MADE. I, I'M, I'M JUST WONDERING FROM, FROM THE DRAWING THAT YOU HAVE ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW, IF YOU HAVE THE PLATE HEIGHT AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE PITCH OF THE ROOF IS, THEN THE, THE OVERALL HEIGHT CAN BE EXTRAPOLATED FROM THAT OUTSIDE OF THE FOUR, UH, PENETRATIONS AND THE, AND THEIR GARAGE DOORS. I'M WONDERING JUST IN, IN TERMS OF ACTIONS MOVING FORWARD THAT IF, IF, UH, STAFF IS, IS, [00:25:01] IS GIVEN THE, THE, UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THE RIGHT WORD IS JURISDICTION TO, TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS ADMINISTRATIVELY, THEN PERHAPS IT PROVIDES AN EXAMPLE OF, OF A MINOR PROJECT THAT, THAT FINDS, UH, BETTER WORKFLOW. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S A QUESTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE, THESE ARE THE TYPE OF DECISIONS THAT SHOULD BE, UH, UH, MICROMANAGED AT THE, AT THE COMMISSION LEVEL, WHICH IS A, WHICH IS IMPORTANT, UH, FOR PRECEDENT OR IF IT'S ALSO PRESENTING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO, UH, TRUST STAFF AS ITS CHARGE IS VERY SPECIFIC TO MAKING IT CONSISTENT WITH, WITH WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE BY THE GUIDELINE. SO, UH, I KNOW THERE'S A MOTION ON THE, ON THE TABLE AND THAT, AND THAT WE WOULD BE VOTING FOR, UH, UH, CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. AND I, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE A, A ANY COMMENT WITH RESPECT TO, NOT NECESSARILY JUST THE, THE PROJECT ITSELF, BUT WHAT WE WOULD THINK IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF WORKFLOW AS IT'S PRESENTED, UH, UH, UH, STAFF'S, UH, CAPABILITY TO, TO MANAGE IT SHOULD BE MANAGED PROPERLY. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. IF STAFF CAN CLARIFY, THIS DID RECEIVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ON JANUARY 17TH, SO THIS WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THAT ADDITIONAL STIPULATION AS WELL. OKAY. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF THEN. AT THAT PREVIOUS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UM, WERE THE STIPULATIONS THERE ADDRESSED IN THIS PACKAGE? SURE. AS YOU'LL SEE, UM, ON THE SCREEN, A NUMBER OF THEM WERE ADDRESSED. UH, THE TOTAL HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE WAS A STIPULATION AT THAT TIME AS WELL. UM, SO THAT STIPULATION STILL REMAINS THROUGH FINAL APPROVAL FOR THIS REVIEW. SO THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS THAT WERE NOT MET THIS SECOND TIME AROUND THAT YOU'RE REQUESTING AGAIN, CORRECT, YES. OKAY. WHICH FURTHER, I GUESS, UM, SHOWS THAT, UM, MAYBE WE CAN RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME SO THAT WE CAN SEE, ESPECIALLY THE COMPARISON IN HEIGHT AND SPACING BETWEEN THE PRIMARY BUILDING AND THE ADDITION, WHICH WE DO FOR OTHER CASES. UH, THAT, THAT, UH, MR. CHAIR WITH YOUR PERMISSION, THAT BEING SAID, WOULD IT BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR US TO HAVE A CONTINUANCE ON, ON THE HEARING FOR WHERE WE ARE TODAY AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TWO CONCEPTUAL APPROVALS WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE ONE AND WE'RE JUST WAITING ON THE INFORMATION THAT WAS REQUESTED AT THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL? SAME EFFECT. SAME EFFECT. ACCORDING TO CO SAY THAT AGAIN, SAY, SAID IT WOULD BE THE SAME EFFECT. BE THE SAME EFFECT, BUT IN TERMS OF LET'S JUST SAY HIERARCHICAL PROTOCOL, WHAT IS MORE APPROPRIATE? IT, IT REALLY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. AND WE, AND WE DO HAVE A MOTION ON THE TABLE CAN ASK THE QUESTION, MR. CHAIR. SURE, GO AHEAD. HAS THERE BEEN COMMUNICATION WITH THE OWNER? YES. UM, SO THEY DID NOT RESPOND TO OUR MOST RECENT EMAIL WITH, UM, HEARING INFORMATION, BUT WE WERE IN COMMUNICATION FOR FINALIZING THE CASE FILE AND ALSO FOR STAFF'S REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION AS WELL. THEY FULLY AWARE THAT THEY NEED THIS AND THEY'RE, I MEAN, THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY CORRECT OBJECTION TO SEND IT OR NOTHING, CORRECT. IT'S JUST MAYBE A MATTER OF THEY HAVEN'T FOUND THE DOORS OR SPECIFIC WINDOWS OR MOST LIKELY AND THEY WERE CONSENTING TO STAFF STIPULATIONS. WELL, WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, IN THAT CASE, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION FOR A CONTINUANCE. LET ME UM, STOP YOU FOR A SECOND. SO, AS COREY STATED, IT'S NOT NECESSARY. SO LET'S, UM, VOTE ON THIS MOTION AND BECAUSE HE SAID IT'S GONNA HAVE THE SAME EFFECT. SO HAVING DOING THAT IS NOT, IS REALLY A MOOT POINT AT THIS TIME. I I UNDERSTAND THAT. I, I UNDERSTAND THAT HAS BUT TWO CONCEPTUAL APPROVALS IN INDICATE THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SETS OF DECISIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE AND THERE HAVEN'T BEEN WITH RESPECT TO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. SO IT, IT SEEMS IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE A CON HEARING PENDING THE INFORMATION THAT WAS REQUESTED AS OPPOSED TO APPROVING A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED. I'LL DEFER TO, UM, CITY ATTORNEY. SO SINCE, SINCE IT, UM, COREY STATED THAT IT HAS THE SAME EFFECT, UM, IS IT NECESSARY TO, TO DO A CONTINUOUS OR CAN WE CONTINUE ON WITH THIS MOTION? HE'S MADE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION. I HAVEN'T HEARD IT. SECOND. OKAY. MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF A SECOND. MR. CHAIR, I CALL FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION. THANK. MOTION. THANK YOU. MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. CASTILLO. AYE. SINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. GALLOWAY. AYE. MOOKA. AYE. GUDA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS? [00:30:01] AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER [INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION  ] SEVEN, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, HDRC, CASE NUMBER 20 23 4 0 8 909 0 6, AND 9 0 4 WEST HOUSTON, OH ONE 11 NORTH THREE OH AND 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE ADDRESSED AS 909 0 4 AND 9 0 6 WEST HOUSTON AND ONE 11 NORTH THREE OH COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE RICH BOOK BUILDING AND REQUEST ITEM NUMBER TWO TO DEMOLISH THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE ADDRESS AS 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON, COMMONLY KNOWN AS THE S SA D WORKS BUILDING. THE STRUCTURE IS ON A PARCEL THAT INCLUDES THE STRUCTURE FRONTING AND ADDRESSES 101 18 NORTH MEDINA. THE STRUCTURE FRONTING NORTH MEDINA IS NOT PART OF THIS REQUEST AND IS NOT PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED FOR ITEM NUMBER 1 909 0 4 AND 9 0 6 WEST HOUSTON AND ONE 11 NORTH THREE OH. STAFF FINDS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SATISFIED THE BURDEN OF PROOF REQUIREMENTS TO DEMONSTRATE AN UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF DEMOLITION WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT A SUBSTANTIAL SALVAGE PLAN EITHER BE DEVELOPED AND SUBMITTED A STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL TO SALVAGE AS MANY ORIGINAL ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS AS POSSIBLE TO INCLUDE FACADE, BRICK, CASTSTONE, AND FACADE LETTERS. AND THEN NUMBER TWO, THAT THE REPLACEMENT PLANS BE DEVELOPED WITH RECONSTRUCTION OF THE ORIGINAL RICH BOOK BLOCK FACES NORTH AND THE EAST FACADES IN MINE. USING THE BUILDING LETTERS AND OTHER SALVAGE MATERIALS WERE FEASIBLE. A DEMOLITION PERMIT WILL NOT BE ISSUED UNTIL REPLACEMENT PLANS ARE APPROVED AND PERMITTED. ALL REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDC SECTION 35 614 D AND E MUST BE SATISFIED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A DEMOLITION PERMIT AND FOR REQUEST. ITEM NUMBER 2 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON. STAFF FINDS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SATISFIED THE BURDEN OF PROOF REQUIREMENTS TO DEMONSTRATE AN UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF DEMOLITION WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT A SUBSTANTIAL SALVAGE PLAN BE DEVELOPED AND SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL TO SALVAGE AS MANY ARCH ORIGINAL ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS. IM AS POSSIBLE TO INCLUDE FACADE, BRICK, CAST, STONE COPING, AND PARAPET CAPS AND OTHER DECORATIVE FACADE ELEMENTS. AND TWO, THAT REPLACEMENT PLANS BE DEVELOPED WITH THE REPLICATION OF THE WEST HOUSTON STREET FACADE IN MIND. A DEMOLITION PERMIT WILL NOT BE ISSUED UNTIL REPLACEMENT PLANS ARE APPROVED AND PERMITTED. UH, AND THE APPLICANT, DAVID ATMAN, IS HERE IN PERSON. GOOD AFTERNOON, JAMES MCKNIGHT WITH ORTIZ MCKNIGHT, 1 1 2 EAST PECAN HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. DAVID DELMAN IS HERE. UM, BUT I WANTED TO SET THE TABLE JUST FOR A COUPLE OF THINGS. UH, I KNOW THAT REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION CAN BE A REALLY CHARGED ITEM AND CAN BE FULL OF EMOTIONS, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF FACTS INVOLVED IN THIS. ONE. I WANT TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THE PURVIEW TODAY IS ABOUT ECONOMIC HARDSHIP AND UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. AND THAT MEANS WE CAN'T MAKE A REASONABLE RETURN OR REAL, I'M SORRY, A REASONABLE BENEFICIAL USE OF THE PROPERTY OR GET A REASONABLE RETURN ON THE PROPERTY. THE STRUCTURE CANNOT BE REASONABLY ADAPTED FOR BENEFICIAL USE, WHICH WOULD RESULT IN A REASONABLE RETURN. I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THAT CAN IT BE ADAPTED? ALL KINDS OF BUILDINGS CAN BE ADAPTED. WILL IT BE A REASONABLE RATE OF RETURN? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA PROVE TODAY. THAT'S WHAT DAVID IS GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY. WE'VE HAD THE BUILDING FOR TWO YEARS AND WE HAVE MARKETED THAT TO OTHERS WHO HAVE LOOKED AT THE PROPERTY AND SAID IT WOULDN'T WORK FOR THEM. SO WE'VE SATISFIED THOSE REQUIREMENTS. I KNOW IT'S TOUGH, BUT WE HAVE PROVEN THOSE THINGS AND I, I WANT DAVID TO, TO EXPLAIN THOSE IN MORE DETAIL. I JUST WANTED TO SET THAT TABLE. THANK YOU. HI, DAVID DELMAN, UH, FIVE 13 ELMHURST. SO I WANT TO RUN THROUGH THIS PRESENTATION WITH YOU GUYS AND KIND OF TALK THROUGH WHERE WE'VE BEEN. I THINK JAMES SAID TWO YEARS. I THINK THE NUMBER IS MORE LIKE 10 YEARS, UM, THAT WE'VE BEEN TOILING WITH THIS PROPERTY, UH, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN. IN FACT, WHEN WE FIRST BOUGHT THE RICH BOOK BUILDING, UH, VIA CENTRAL PLAZA THAT YOU SEE ON THE AERIAL RIGHT THERE WASN'T EVEN BUILT AT THAT TIME. SO WHEN WE ENTERED THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WERE LOOKING TO, TO BUILD AND REDEVELOP, UH, AND RESTORE THE RICH BOOK BUILDING, UH, THAT PROJECT WASN'T EVEN THERE AT THAT TIME. SO, UH, I WANNA START WITH JUST AN INTRODUCTION FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO I DON'T KNOW. UM, I'M A DEVELOPER IN THIS TOWN AND PROPERTY OWNER, UH, BEEN HERE, UH, SINCE 1995. I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE, UH, BORN IN 1969. SO I'VE BEEN HERE MY WHOLE LIFE EXCEPT FOR COLLEGE. AND SO WE ARE DEEPLY COMMITTED TO HISTORIC BUILDING RENOVATIONS AND HISTORIC BUILDING, UH, OPERATIONS. WE OWN A BUNCH OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN SAN ANTONIO. WE OWN A BUNCH OF OLD BUILDINGS AND BEEN VERY DEEPLY INVOLVED IN, IN THOSE. SO I POINT OUT A FEW OF THEM. THE MAVERICK BUILDING, WE RESTORED THE BURNS BUILDING ON HOUSTON STREET. WE RESTORED, UM, THE OLD PLUMBING WAREHOUSE WITH SAN ANTONIO PLUMBING [00:35:01] ON JONES AVENUE, A RED BRICK WAREHOUSE THERE. YOU SEE, IN FACT, WE WON AN AWARD FROM A I A FOR THAT PROJECT. WE JUST RECENTLY COMPLETED RESTORATION OF THE FORMER BORDEN DAIRY BUILDING. WE CALL IT THE CREAMERY. UM, JUST RECENTLY COMPLETED THAT PROJECT, UH, SUBMITTED FOR HISTORIC TAX CREDITS. UM, WE USE THE HISTORIC TAX CREDIT PROGRAM FOR THE BURNS BUILDING AND THE MAVERICK BUILDING. SO I KNOW THE PROGRAMS, UH, TOP TO BOTTOM. I'M PROBABLY AS EXPERIENCED AS ANYBODY IN IN SAN ANTONIO TODAY DOING HISTORIC RENOVATION. AND I WILL TELL YOU WE LOVE IT. I I SIGN UP FOR IT OVER AND AGAIN AND, AND CONTINUE TO DO IT. SO IF THERE'S A WAY TO DO IT, IF THERE'S A A POSSIBILITY, UH, I BELIEVE THAT OUR COMPANY AND MYSELF IN PARTICULAR, UM, ARE COMMITTED TO IT. UM, SECONDLY, MY PARTNER IN THIS PROJECT, BARKLEY ANTHONY IS NOT HERE TODAY, BUT BARKLEY AND I GREW UP TOGETHER. WE WENT TO LEE HIGH SCHOOL. WE BOTH WENT TO UT FOR COLLEGE, UH, BARKLEY AND HIS FAMILY OWN SEA ISLAND RESTAURANTS. THEY'VE BEEN HERE SINCE. THOSE RESTAURANTS HAVE BEEN OPEN SINCE 1965. BARKLEY IS, IS A COMMITTED, UH, SAN ANTONIO AS WELL AS I AM. SO I I JUST WANTED TO SET THE TABLE FOR THE DISCUSSION SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT FOR SURE. THIS, THIS CASE THAT WE'RE PRESENTING ON ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. IT COMES WITH A LOT OF BACKGROUND AND, AND KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE. UM, GETTING TO THIS POINT, AND I DON'T TAKE THIS LIGHTLY, THIS REQUEST LIGHTLY. UM, IN APRIL OF 18, THE RICH BOOK BUILDING, WE HAD A, A BAR IN THE BASE, IN, IN THE FIRST FLOOR. AND WE HAD SINGLE ROOM OCCUPANT RESIDENTIAL ON THE SECOND FLOOR. AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR US, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE MANAGING THE BUILDING, UM, ALLOWED SOME DRUG DEALER INTO THE BUILDING THAT WAS DEALING DRUGS. THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO DID A BIG STING ON THE BUILDING, UNBEKNOWNST TO, NOT UNBEKNOWNST TO, THEY LET US KNOW A COUPLE DAYS IN ADVANCE AND CLEARED IT OUT, AND THEY FORCED US TO VACATE IT. AND THEY SAID BECAUSE OF THE DANGEROUS SITUATION, WE WERE NOT ABLE TO OCCUPY THE BUILDING FOR A FULL YEAR. THAT HAPPENED BACK IN 2018. SINCE THAT TIME, WE HAVE BEEN VACANT AND MARKETING THE PROPERTY AND TRYING TO COME UP WITH A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN. IS IT LOCKED? OKAY. ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID IN 2019 WAS WE CAME UP WITH A REDEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT WE LOOKED AT, HOW WOULD WE REDEVELOP IT? AND ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS ON THE VERY LEFT, YOU SEE FRONTING MEDINA STREET, WE OWN A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING THAT IS HISTORIC, WOULD NEVER BE TORN DOWN, IS A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING. IT'S, UH, HAS SOME OFFICE TENANTS IN IT THAT'S BEEN DIFFICULT OF LATE, BUT WE DO HAVE OFFICE TENANTS IN THERE AND WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH OPERATING OFFICE BUILDINGS LIKE THAT. SO WHAT WE CAME UP WITH WAS A CONCEPTUAL PLAN THAT IF WE COULD TAKE DOWN THE TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE AT ISSUE TODAY, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD A MIXED USE BUILDING, WHICH WOULD HAVE RETAIL AND PROPER PARKING. SO WHAT YOU SEE THERE IS A, IS A PARKING STRUCTURE THAT FITS ACROSS THE PROPERTY WITHOUT THAT DEMOLITION THAT THIS PLAN IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE BUILT. SO AT THAT TIME, WE SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION, WE MET WITH THE DRC. THERE WAS NO INTEREST IN DOING THIS, UH, DEMOLITION AT THAT TIME. AND THEY SAID, YOU HAVEN'T MARKETED THE PROPERTY ENOUGH, YOU HAVEN'T DONE ENOUGH FOR US TO CONSIDER THAT. SO WHAT DID WE DO AFTER THAT? OH, BUT THIS, THIS WAS THE PLAN. AND ACTUALLY WHAT WE CAME UP WITH WAS A MULTIFAMILY PROJECT. AND WE WOULD TO, TO, ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT STAFF HAS MADE, RECREATE THE TWO STORY BUILDING ON THE LEFT ON THE RIGHT WITH ADDITIONAL DENSITY, WHICH WOULD ALLOW US TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY. WE HIRED, UM, JLL TO MARKET THE PROPERTY BACK IN 2020. WE HAD MARKETING MATERIALS, WE OFFERED IT FOR LEASE. WE OFFERED IT FOR SALE. WE OFFERED IT AS A REDEVELOPMENT, UH, TO ANY AND ALL COMERS, ANYTHING THAT WE COULD, UH, TURN UP TO CONSIDER HOW TO REDEVELOP THIS. UM, WE HAD A NUMBER OF LOOKERS, PROSPER WEST, WHO'S A WEST SIDE REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY. THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME, WE OFFERED TO CONTRIBUTE THE BUILDING TO A JOINT VENTURE. WE OFFERED TO CONTRIBUTE EQUITY, UM, TO HELP THEM REDEVELOP IT AND OPERATE SOMETHING THERE. UH, THEY ULTIMATELY TOOK A PASS. AND SO WE PROVIDED A LETTER FROM PRO PROSPER WEST JUST TO DEMONSTRATE THAT WE DID THAT. WE ALSO HAD A, A PRETTY STRONG LOOK WITH, UH, MARK LARSON, WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE CHARTER SCHOOL BUSINESS AND CITY EDUCATION PARTNERS LOOKED AT MOVING THEIR OFFICES THERE. AND THEY PASSED ON THE SITE FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS THAT HE MENTIONS. UM, AND I, THERE WERE MORE LOOKERS THAN JUST THAT, BUT I JUST PUT EXAMPLES TO DEMONSTRATE THAT NOT ONLY DID WE MARKET THE PROPERTY, BUT WE DID HAVE LOOKERS AND THEY DECLINED. AND WE, AND WE REPRESENTED THAT. UM, MORE RECENTLY IN 2023, THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SHOWED UP, UH, WITHOUT US ASKING OR ANYTHING, AND THEY IDENTIFIED THE BUILDING WITH A BIG RED X THAT THEY SAID, IT'S SO UNSAFE. THE BUILDING IS SO PHYSICALLY [00:40:01] UNSAFE THAT SHOULD IT CATCH FIRE, WE WOULDN'T ENTER THE BUILDING TO FIGHT A FIRE. WE WOULD ONLY DEAL WITH WHATEVER HAPPENS FROM THE OUTSIDE. SO IT'S ACTUALLY CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS STRUCTURE. AND THEY TOLD US IT'S ONE OF THE VERY FEW DANGEROUS STRUCTURES IN SAN ANTONIO THAT HAS THIS DESIGNATION. SO IF YOU'VE, IF YOU'RE ON THE DRC AND YOU WALK THROUGH THE BUILDING, YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND IT'S COMPLETELY ROTTED OUT ON THE INSIDE. IT'S A REALLY, REALLY, UH, TOUGH SITUATION WE HAVE THERE. UM, WE SUBMITTED A FULL APPLICATION AND I JUST MENTIONED THAT, THAT WE PUT ALL THE DETAILS, EVERYTHING THAT JAMES MENTIONED REGARDING ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. WE, WE PUT THE, ALL THE PROPER INFORMATION TOGETHER THAT, UH, VALIDATES THAT POSITION. UM, WE HIRED A PROPERTY CONDITION ASSESSMENT CONSULTANT TO COMPLETELY REVIEW THE BUILDINGS SORT OF TOP TO BOTTOM. UH, WE PROVIDED THAT AND WE HAD A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WRITE A VERY CONCISE LETTER THAT EX EXPLAINING WHAT HE SEES. AND WHAT HE SAID WAS, IF YOU WERE GOING TO REDEVELOP JUST THE BUILDINGS WITHOUT ADDING FLOORS TO THE BUILDING, IF YOU WERE JUST GONNA REPURPOSE THE BUILDINGS AS THEY CURRENTLY ARE TODAY, YOU WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY LOSE THE FACADES. AND HE COULDN'T GIVE US, HE SAID, I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ENGINEER A PLAN FOR YOU TO REBUILD THE STRUCTURE TO HANDLE NORMAL FLOOR LOADS, GIVEN THAT THEY'RE JUST OLD WOOD FRAME BUILDINGS THAT ARE LITERALLY ROTTED OUT WITHOUT PUTTING THE FACADES AT RISK. THOSE FACADES WOULD LIKELY COLLAPSE. AND THAT'S WHAT HE DEMONSTRATES IN THAT LETTER. AND, AND HAVING BUILT A LOT OF PROPERTIES AND RESTORED A LOT OF PROPERTIES, THESE PARTICULAR BUILDINGS ARE VERY, I'M GONNA CALL LIGHTLY BUILT. I MEAN, THEY'RE JUST BRICKS AND OLD WOOD THAT'S STUBBED INTO THE BRICK. THERE'S NOT A SIGNIFICANT STRUCTURE IN PLACE. UH, WE PUT OUR PERFORMANCE TOGETHER THAT WE'RE PRETTY, UH, SIMPLE. WE, WE GOT COST AND VALIDATED THOSE COSTS. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT, UH, BASED ON WHERE RENTS ARE TODAY, UH, RETURN ON COST IS IN THE 1% RANGE. OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU, UH, THAT'S THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP THAT WE CANNOT, WE CAN'T MAKE THAT WORK AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY CAN MAKE THAT WORK. THAT'S FOR THE FIRST BUILDING. AND THEN AGAIN, FOR THE SECOND BUILDING, IT'S A SIMILAR THING. WE GOT THE COST ESTIMATES AND EVEN HAWTHORNE CONTRACTING THAT WE TALKED TO RECENTLY, UH, FROM THE DATES THAT THEY ISSUED THESE COST ESTIMATES, THEY SAID, LOOK, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF WE COULD DO IT FOR THAT PRICE TODAY. SO IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BEEN FOLLOWING CONSTRUCTION COSTS, IT HASN'T DONE ANYTHING, BUT, BUT GO UP, WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY ABATEMENT AND COST, SO WE WOULDN'T EXPECT IN THE FUTURE OR NEAR FUTURE TO SEE COST DECLINING. THESE COSTS ARE ONLY GONNA GO UP FROM HERE AND UNFORTUNATELY, THE RENTS AREN'T KEEPING PACE IN TERMS OF WHAT'S POSSIBLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER IS YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, WE DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE PARKING. AND SO YOU'RE ALMOST BUILDING BUILDINGS THAT WOULD HAVE ALMOST ZERO PARKING. AND SO YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE LIKELIHOOD OF, OF TENANT PROSPECTS WITH NO PARKING. AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD HASN'T EVOLVED AND DEVELOPED, UH, WHERE THERE'S ANY OTHER PARKING ALTERNATIVES AROUND, LITERALLY ALMOST NONE. SO I CLOSE WITH, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE, WE'VE MADE A, A SOLID CASE. WE KNOW WE WOULDN'T DEMOLISH THESE BUILDINGS UNTIL WE HAD AN ADEQUATE, UH, REDEVELOPMENT PLAN. THAT'S THE CITY CODE. WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE WORK WITHIN THAT ALL THE TIME, AND WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION TO PLEASE GRANT THIS SO WE CAN DO SOMETHING. IF YOU'VE DRIVEN BY THERE, YOU'LL RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION. UM, YOU CAN SEE JUST THIS WAS A VERY CURRENT IMAGES I TOOK OF THE BUILDING, SO YOU COULD SEE WHAT, WHAT WE'RE FACED WITH. AND I FEEL STRONGLY THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REDEVELOP THE SITE COMPLETELY, WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE LOOKING AT THAT FOR THE NEXT DECADE. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING CHANGING IN ANY KIND OF IMMEDIATE FUTURE THAT I CAN SEE. AND I, AGAIN, I DON'T ASK FOR THIS REQUEST LIGHTLY AND I HOPE YOU'LL CONSIDER IT AND I HAVE TIME TO ANSWER QUESTIONS OR WHATEVER THE NEXT STEPS. THANK YOU. UM, EDWARD, DO WE HAVE ANY VOICEMAILS? AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A NUMBER OF IN-PERSON SPEAKERS. UM, I'VE NOTICED A FEW PEOPLE CAME IN. UM, IF YOU WANNA GO AHEAD AND SIGN UP ON THE SHEET THAT I'LL LEAVE OUT HERE, I'LL START READING FROM THE FIRST LIST. FIRST UP IS SARAH GOULD. GO AHEAD. HELLO AGAIN. UM, FOR THE RECORD, MY NAME IS SARAH GOULD. UM, I'M A RESIDENT OF DISTRICT SEVEN. I DO WORK IN DISTRICT FIVE. UM, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO GET THIS PROPERTY OFF THEIR HANDS, AND I DON'T BLAME THEM. I THINK MOST OF YOU, IF NOT ALL OF YOU, HAVE BEEN ON SITE VISITS DOWN TO THIS, UM, GROUPING OF BUILDINGS. AND, AND THE AREA UNFORTUNATELY, REALLY REPRESENTS A MORAL FAILURE ON OUR PART. I DON'T, [00:45:01] I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYBODY THAT WOULD WANNA LIVE OR WORK THERE BECAUSE OF THAT MORAL FAILURE THAT THE AREA REPRESENTS. IT IS ALSO AN AREA THAT IS ESSENTIALLY THE ELLIS ISLAND OF TEXAS FOR PEOPLE OF MEXICAN DESCENT. SO FOR TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OF MEXICAN DESCENT WHO LANDED IN SAN ANTONIO IN 1910 AND UP TO 1920, THEY CAME IN VIA THE INTERNATIONAL AND GREAT NORTHERN RAILROAD AND LANDED IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, SET UP HOUSING HERE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, SET UP SMALL BUSINESSES HERE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS WAS A VIBRANT COMMUNITY AT ONE POINT, UNFORTUNATELY, URBAN RENEWAL HIT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UM, RIGHT NOW WE'RE EXPERIENCING A CRISIS OF UNHOUSED PEOPLE. THE BUILDINGS CANNOT BE BLAMED FOR OUR MORAL FAILURES. THE BUILDINGS, AGAIN, MAY REPRESENT AN IMPORTANT PART OF SAN ANTONIO HISTORY. AND MY REAL CONCERN HERE IS THAT CUMULATIVELY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING IN THIS AREA, AND I WOULD, I WOULD JUST EXPAND IT OUT A LITTLE BIT ALL THE WAY TO, UM, THE RAILROAD TRACKS AND EVEN A LITTLE BIT BEYOND. BUT THIS AREA, WE'VE SEEN SO MANY DEMOLITIONS. IT'S JUST A CU CUMULATIVE IMPACT THAT IS ERASING THAT, YOU KNOW, EARLY 20TH CENTURY HISTORY OF MEXICAN AMERICANS IN SAN ANTONIO. PLEASE WRAP UP YOUR COMMENTS, MA'AM, AM I OUTTA TIME? I'LL STAND. PLEASE WRAP UP YOUR COMMENTS. OKAY. SORRY. UM, THANK YOU. UM, EDUARDO JUAREZ, HE'LL BE FOLLOWED BY RAY MORALES. YEP. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. UM, MY NAME IS EDUARDO JUAREZ. UH, I LIVE AT 29 18 WEST POPLAR STREET ON THE, UM, ON THE WEST SIDE. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THE WEST SIDE. I, UH, WENT TO CENTRAL CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL. I'M A RETIRED CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY. UM, AND I'M RECENTLY MOVED BACK TO THE WEST SIDE, UM, TO MY CHILDHOOD HOME. AND SO THIS AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP PASSING BY THESE BUILDINGS. UH, I GREW UP WITH MY, UH, FAMILY SHOPPING IN THE AREA AND, UM, AND SO THEY MEAN A LOT TO ME. BUT I I WANTED TO MAKE A POINT IS THAT ONE THING THAT IS CLEAR IS THAT THE OWNERS PURCHASED THE PROPERTIES KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THEY HAD BEEN HISTORICALLY DESIGNATED BECAUSE, UM, THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION HAPPENED IN 2008. I'M SORRY, NINE, YES. 9 19 88. 1988. OKAY. BUT, AND THE PURCHASE HAPPENED IN 2014, RIGHT? YES. SO IT WOULD, IT WOULD SUBVERT THE WHOLE HISTORIC DESIGNATION PURPOSE TO ALLOW AN OWNER TO PURCHASE IT KNOWING THAT IT HAS A HISTORIC DESIGNATION, AND THEN JUST SIT ON THE PROPERTY AND, AND WAIT AND THEN REQUEST A DEMOLITION. UM, AGAIN, I THINK THE, THE LOSS OF THESE BUILDINGS WOULD BE AN IRREPLACEABLE LOSS TO SAN ANTONIO, BUT NOT ONLY TO SAN ANTONIO, TO THE WEST SIDE COMMUNITY OF WHICH I AM A MEMBER. THANK YOU. RAY MORALES. RAY WILL BE FOLLOWED BY SHERRY CAMPOS. ONE MOMENT MA'AM. RAY AND THEN SHERRY. GO AFTER HIM. SHERRY, I WAS ANXIOUS. , IT'S ON ALREADY. OKAY, WHEN I START THIS, I'M RAY MORALES WITH 2 0 3 MEDFORD DRIVE WITH A HISTORIC WEST SIDE RESIDENCE ASSOCIATION. I'M A RETIRED ARCHITECT OPPOSED TO THE PROPOSED DEMOTION OF 900 WEST HOUSTON, THE RICH BOOK BUILDING IN 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON, THE SAN ANTONIO D WORKS. I VISITED THE SITE TWICE WITH THE OWNERS AND I DISAGREE WITH O P'S RECOMMENDATIONS. I'M CONVINCED THAT THE PROPERTIES CAN AND SHOULD BE, UH, REHABILITATED FOR ADAPTIVE REUSE. I FIND IT STRANGE THAT NO DUE DILIGENCE REPORT WAS CONDUCTED PRIOR TO THE PURCHASE. ANY REASONABLE INVESTOR WITH A PLAN TO REUSE AND REHAB THE STRUCTURE WOULD HAVE CONDUCTED ONE. UM, THE PCA THAT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER, UH, STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS WASN'T DONE UNTIL THE, UH, JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. HAVE YOU GUYS SIT AT THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER WALK DURING THESE PAST HOLIDAYS? I DID. AND THE RIVER WALK IS AS BEAUTIFUL AND POPULAR AS EVER. IMAGINE IT PAVED OVER AS ONCE PROPOSED BECAUSE IT PRESENTED A SAFETY ISSUE, A HEALTH ISSUE, [00:50:01] OR HAD NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT. IF WE DEMOLISH THESE BUILDINGS, WE ALL LOSE, THIS WOULD BE AN IRREPLACEABLE LOSS TO THE QUALITY AND CHARACTER OF SAN ANTONIO, AND WE LOSE A VITAL LINK TO SAN ANTONIO'S RICH AND DIVERSE HISTORY. IMAGINE THE OUTCOME. WE SEND OUT THE MESSAGE TO ANYONE LOOKING TO PURCHASE A CURRENTLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC STRUCTURE THAT, THAT THEY CAN WAIT LONG ENOUGH THAT NO REPLACEMENT PLAN IS NEEDED ON WHAT TO DO WITH THE STRUCTURES. THE DEMOLITION IS JUSTIFIED DUE TO THE ECONOMIC DECLINE OF THE AREA, OR JUSTIFIED DUE TO A GENERAL CLAIM OF UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. WILL WE HAVE ANY TANGIBLE OR INTANGIBLE HISTORIC RESOURCES LEFT AFTER THIS MISSION IS SENT? THE STRUCTURES WERE CLEARLY DESIGNATED INDIVIDUAL HISTORIC LANDMARKS BACK IN 1988, AND THEY HAVE NOT LOST THEIR HISTORIC CULTURAL AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE NOW OR WHEN THEY WERE PURCHASED IN 2014. ONCE THE TANGIBLE, THE PHYSICAL STRUCTURE IS GONE, THE INTANGIBLE HISTORY, THE MEMORY OF A RICH CULTURAL PAST DISAPPEARS AT SOME POINT. WE HAVE TO THINK BEYOND THE RATE OF RETURN AND DECIDE WHAT WE TRULY VALUE IN THIS COMMUNITY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. SHERRY CAMPOS, FOLLOWED BY ALBERT CAMPBELL. EXCUSE MY VOICE. MY NAME IS SHERRY CAMPOS. I LIVE AT 3 0 3 SOUTH PINTO STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS SEVEN EIGHT TWO ZERO SEVEN. BORN ON APRIL 15TH IN 1882 IN ROMANIA, MORRIS RIDGE BOOK SET OUT ON A JOURNEY TO AMERICA IN SEARCH OF A BETTER LIFE. MORRIS RIDGE BOOK MADE SAN ANTONIO HIS HOME AND QUICKLY BECAME AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE COMMUNITY. IN 1910, FULFILLED HIS DREAM OF OWNING A BUSINESS STORE, OPENING RICH DEPARTMENT STORE. THE STORE QUICKLY BECAME A BELOVED FIXTURE IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO OFFERED A WIDE RANGE OF GOODS AND SERVICES TO THE RESIDENTS OF THE CITY. HISTORICAL BUILDINGS HOLD THE STORIES OF OUR ANCESTORS, THE BLOOD, SWEAT, AND TEARS THAT POUR INTO EVERY BRICK AND BEAM. THERE ARE A TESTAMENT TO THE ARCHITECTURAL GENIUS AND CRAFTSMANSHIP OF THE PAST. AND TO DESTROY THEM IS TO DENY FUTURE GENERATIONS THE OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM THEIR HISTORY. IMAGINE WALKING THROUGH THE CORRIDORS OF A BUILDING THAT HAS STOOD THERE FOR CENTURIES, FEELING THE WEIGHT OF TIME AND ECHOES OF THE PEOPLE WHO ONCE LIVED AND WORKED WITHIN ITS WALLS. THESE BUILDINGS ARE MORE THAN JUST STRUCTURES. THEY'RE LIVING ENTITIES THAT CONNECT US TO OUR PAST AND SHAPE OUR FUTURE. TO DEMOLISH OR ALTER A HISTORICAL BUILDING IS A CRUEL AND DISRESPECTFUL ACT AKIN TO SPITTING ON THE GRAVES OF THOSE WHO CAME BEFORE US. IT'S A BETRAYAL OF THE TRUST THAT WAS PLACED IN US TO PRESERVE AND TO PROTECT THESE MONUMENTS TO OUR SHARED HERITAGE. ADDING ANOTHER FLOOR OR CHANGING THE STRUCTURE OF THE HISTORICAL BUILDING IS TO TAMPER WITH A VERY FABRIC AFA COLLECTIVE MEMORY. IT IS TO TAKE AWAY A PART OF THE KIPP SOUL OF THE COMMUNITY, A PART OF THE HISTORY THAT BINDS US TOGETHER. WE MUST RESIST THE URGE TO MODERNIZE AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR HERITAGE. WE MUST HONOR THE VISION OF THE ARCHITECTS AND BUILDERS WHO CREATED THESE STRUCTURES, PRESERVE THEM FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO ADMIRE AND CHERISH. IN CONCLUSION, TO DEMOLISH OR CHANGE OUR HISTORICAL BUILDING IS TO NOT OUR PAST AND ROB OUR FUTURE OF ITS RICHNESS AND DEPTH. WE MUST STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH THE ARCHITECTS AND BUILDERS OF THESE STRUCTURES AND PROTECT THEM FROM RAVAGES OF TIME AND PROGRESS. OUR HISTORIES IS OUR LEGACY AND WE MUST PRESERVE IT WITH THE UTMOST CARE AND RESPECT. AND I'M SORRY, I HAVE LARYNGITIS, SO I TRIED . THANK YOU. ALBERT CAMPBELL. ALBERT BE FOLLOWED BY IRMA HOFFMAN. MY NAME IS ALBERT CAMPBELL AND I LIVE IN THE DISTRICT FIVE AREA. UM, MY FAM MY FAMILY CAME AND BEEN HERE SINCE THE 1930S. SO THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT IN 1914 AND IT'S BEEN A HISTORICAL BUILDING. THIS DEVELOPER KNEW THAT IT WAS A HISTORICAL BUILDING AND EVEN TOLD YOU THAT HE LOVED IT AND HE EVEN RESTORED IT, BUT THEN HE NEGLECTED IT SO IT CAN BE DEMOLISHED. AND HE SAID HE EVEN GOT SOME GAIN BY HISTORICAL TAX. SO THIS IS JUST A WAY TO DESTROY AND ROB OUR HERITAGE AS HISPANICS AND THIS OF DISTRICT FIVE. THIS IS A WAY THAT DEVELOPERS DO. THEY COME AND THEY START THIS GENTRIFICATION AND ROB US OF OUR HERITAGE, OUR CULTURE, AND OUR LIVES, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN SEEING THIS BUILDING SINCE I WAS BORN IN 1969. SO THIS IS THE WAY OF THINGS THAT BUSINESS HAS DONE. HE KNEW IT THAT WHEN HE BOUGHT IT, IT WAS HISTORICAL AND THERE WAS GOING TO BE A LOSS. THERE'S, IN BUSINESS IS THERE'S NEVER A CHANCE THAT YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO GAIN, BUT YOU'RE ALWAYS, SOMETIMES YOU GONNA LOSE. [00:55:01] BUT SINCE HE FOUND, TRIED TO DO A LOOPHOLE AND NEGLECTED IT TO BE ABLE TO POINT TO SAY IT'S GONNA BE DEMOLISHED, HE KNEW WHAT KIND OF GAME HE WAS PLAYING. AND THAT'S NOT THE THE WAY TO DO BUSINESS. IF WE GONNA HAVE SOME KIND OF HONOR SYSTEM, BE HONORABLE, BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY TO COME AND DECEIVE THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO OR THE CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO. IRMA HOFFMAN, FOLLOWED BY THERESA VELAZQUEZ. HELLO, MY NAME IS IRMA HOFFMAN AND I AM A SAN ANTONIO RESIDENT. BORN, UH, A MILE AND A HALF FROM HERE, CLOSE TO THE, UH, FAMOUS, UH, UNION STOCKYARDS WHERE MY GREAT-GRANDFATHER. WE, I WAS BORN IN THE HOME THAT IS STILL THERE, UH, BY MY GREAT-GRANDFATHER. AND, UM, THIS SITUATION IS ABOUT HONESTY AND RESPECT. UH, IT IS TRUE THAT THE DEVELOPER SAID, UH, THAT HE BOUGHT THESE BUILDINGS AND HE KNEW THEY WERE HISTORIC. IT'S LIKE SOMEBODY BUYING OUR HOME AND SAYING THEY WILL, UH, TAKE CARE OF IT AND RESPECT IT AND KEEP THE HISTORIC VALUE OF IT, AND THEN LETTING IT DETERIORATE AND SAY, WELL, NOW I HAVE TO TEAR IT DOWN BECAUSE I HAVE LOST MONEY. IS IT A LOSS OF MONEY? IS IT A LOSS OR IS IT A LOSS OF RESPECT? IS IT A LOSS OF HONESTY? IS IT A LOSS OF HISTORY? SO WE HAVE TO ASK MR. EDELMAN THAT AND WHEN IT IS SAID THAT HE WAS BORN HERE. YES, YOU WERE BORN HERE AND WE RESPECT THAT, BUT YOU WERE NOT BORN THERE WHERE A LOT OF US HAVE BEEN BORN AND WE SHOPPED. DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN THAT WERE RAISED THERE? DO YOU HAVE GRANDPARENTS THAT HAVE THEIR LITTLE CASITAS THERE? DO YOU HAVE GREAT GRANDPARENTS THAT ARE STILL IN THE CEMETERY RIGHT THERE, A MILE AWAY FROM THE RICH BUILDINGS AND SO FORTH? CONSIDER THAT AND SAY, WILL YOU RESPECT THE PEOPLE OF THE AREA? WILL YOU UPHOLD WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY HAD SAID YOU WOULD KEEP YOUR WORD AND DO. THANK YOU. THERESA VELAZQUEZ, FOLLOWED BY SUSANNA ZURA. HI, GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS THERESA VELAZQUEZ AND I WAS BORN HERE IN SAN ANTONIO AS WELL. AND MY, ACTUALLY MY GRANDMOTHER HAD A HOTEL RIGHT NEXT TO THE CATTLE, THE CATTLEMAN'S UH, BUILDING THERE. AND TODAY I DROVE BY THERE AND IT'S JUST AN EMPTY FEELING KNOWING THAT THAT WAS GONE. BUT GOING BACK TO THE CULTURE OF THE WEST SIDE, MY FATHER WAS ALSO FROM MEXICO, THIRD GRADE EDUCATION. AND SO KNOWING THAT MY GRANDMOTHER WHO WAS BORN IN THE 1920S AND MY FATHER AGAIN, WHO HAD LESS THAN A THIRD GRADE EDUCATION, THEY WERE ABLE TO BE ENTREPRENEURS AND SHOW THAT TO US, THE CHILDREN, GRAND GRANDCHILDREN AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. AND SO, KNOWING THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS BOUGHT, KNOWING THAT IT WAS HISTORICAL, I JUST ASK THAT HONOR, LIKE ONE OF THE GENTLEMEN MENTIONED HONOR AND RESPECT BE GIVEN TO THESE BUILDINGS IN THE PROCESS OF RESTORING OR REFURBISHING OR MAINTAINING SOMETHING THAT WILL REMIND US OF THE CULTURE AND THE WHAT OUR ANCESTORS, THE RICHNESS THAT THEY BROUGHT TO THIS COMMUNITY. AND, UH, UM, MS. HOFFMAN IS CORRECT WHEN SHE SAID THAT THERE WAS KIDS RUNNING UP AND DOWN THESE BLOCKS. I WAS ONE OF THEM IN MY AND MY GRANDMOTHER'S HOTEL, JUST LEARNING DIFFERENT LESSONS, YOU KNOW, HOW, AGAIN, HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS WITH SUCH LITTLE EDUCATION. AND BACK THEN I I, IT WAS A PLACE THAT YOU COULD 8, 9, 10 YEARS OLD BE RUNNING UP AND DOWN THERE AND IT WAS SAFE AT THE TIME. AND SO AGAIN, JUST, I'M JUST ASKING FOR HONOR AND RESPECT IN THE PROCESS OF REFURBISHING OR RE RENEWING THIS, THESE BUILDINGS. THANK YOU. SUSANNA ZURA, FOLLOWED BY GRACIELA SANCHEZ. HELLO, MY NAME IS SUSANNA SEGURA. I LIVE AT TWO 18 SOUTH COLORADO STREET IN DISTRICT FIVE. UM, I'M A COMMUNITY MEMBER THAT BELIEVES IN HISTORIC PRESERVATION. UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE FEEL THAT THIS IS ABOUT HONOR AND RESPECT, BUT IN REALITY IT'S ONLY ABOUT MAKING A PROFIT. IT'S ABOUT CAPITALISM. IT'S ABOUT THE ALMIGHTY AND HOLY DOLLAR ADAM AND BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY 10 YEARS AGO KNOWING THAT IT WAS HISTORIC. [01:00:06] HE MENTIONS NO PARKING OPPORTUNITIES YET VIA CENTRAL IS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET AND THEY TOUT OFF OF THEIR OWN WEBSITE THAT THERE'S 90 BUS LINES THAT RUN THROUGH VIA CENTRAL. SO I DON'T THINK THAT PARKING SHOULD BE AN ISSUE IF WE'RE ENCOURAGING ALTERNATIVE MODES OF TRANSPORTATION. THE ESPERANZA PEACE AND JUSTICE CENTER, WHICH IS WHERE I WORK, UH, TOOK OWNERSHIP OF A BUILDING THROUGH PURCHASE CALLED NIGHTCLUB BACK IN 2013 AND 2012 ACTUALLY, WE SPENT 13 YEARS WORKING HARD TO PRESERVE THAT BUILDING AND THAT BUILDING WAS IN DANGER OF DEMOLITION BY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S OWN CODE PROCESS AND THE DANGEROUS STRUCTURES COMMITTEE. WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT TO FUNDRAISE SO THAT WE COULD PRESERVE THAT PART OF OUR COMMUNITY THAT COMMUNITY'S IMPORTANT TO MEXICAN AMERICAN WORKING CLASS CULTURE. IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUNTO MUSIC AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE ENTIRE NATION. THIS IS OUR OWN AMERICAN FOLK MUSIC. I FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT THE RICH BOOK BUILDING AND THIS NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS SUFFERED AT OUR OWN HANDS THROUGH OUR OWN PROCESSES THAT WE HAVE CREATED. AND WE NEED TO STOP ALLOWING THESE DEVELOPERS TO CRUSH ALL OF OUR DREAMS. THANK YOU. GRACIELA SANCHEZ, FOLLOWED BY JAVIER REYES. UM, JAVIER, UM, MAY BE GIVING UP HIS TIME FOR ME AND MAYBE JASMINE ALSO, BUT WE'LL SEE HOW MUCH TIME. HI JAVIER. CAN YOU RAISE YOUR HAND? PERFECT. UM, MY NAME IS GRACIA LOS SANCHEZ. UH, I LIVE AT 27 18 MONTEREY, ALSO IN DISTRICT FIVE. UM, WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THE WEST SIDE. AS YOU'VE HEARD FROM OTHERS. THE BUILDINGS AT NINE HUNDRED AND NINE OH EIGHT WEST HOUSTON RESIDE AT THE CATTLEMAN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT AND ARE PART OF THE MEXICAN, MEXICAN AMERICAN AND IMMIGRANT HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO. WHAT IS SAD ABOUT CATTLEMAN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS THAT IT'S BEEN DISAPPEARING SINCE 1988. WHAT'S THE POINT OF HAVING A HIS AN HISTORIC DISTRICT IF SOMEONE, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEONE THAT HAS AN EXCUSE TO TAKE ANOTHER BUILDING DOWN AND 909 0 8 AND THE AVANZA BUILDING, ALSO KNOWN AS HYMAN BUILDING AND THE OTHER BUILDING, THEY'RE ALL TOGETHER IN A NICE SUITE, SET OF STRUCTURES, AND THEY SHOULD ALL BE REMAINING TOGETHER, UH, AS OTHERS HAVE SAID. AGAIN, ALMAN KNEW THAT THESE BUILDINGS WERE HISTORIC WHEN HE BOUGHT THEM. THE UDC SAYS, THESE BUILDINGS CANNOT BE DEMOLISHED UNLESS THERE IS REASON UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. THE PERFORMANCE SHARED BY ALMAN AND HIS LOBBYISTS ARE INCOMPLETE. THEY DO NOT OFFER YOU OR WE, THE PUBLIC, THE FUNDS THAT ALMO CAN ACCESS FROM THE MANY SOURCES AT THE CITY, COUNTY, STATE, AND FEDERAL LEVEL TO OFFSET THE MORE THAN $6 MILLION FOR THE RENOVATIONS OF THIS BUILDING. WE ARE HAPPY WITH WHAT HE HAS DONE WITH OTHER HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND WE WELCOME HIM TO DO THE SAME HERE. AND WE WELCOME HIM TO REACH OUT TO THE CITY AND TO THE COUNTY AND EVERYBODY ELSE. I AM THIS MORNING JUST STARTED LOOKING, YOU KNOW, THE 68 AT HEMISPHERE, THE MAVERICK, THE BURNS BUILDING, ALL THESE THAT HE TALKED ABOUT. HE RECEIVED $941,710 AND AN ADDITIONAL 415,000 IN TAX REIMBURSEMENTS FOR MAVERICK BUILDING. HE RECEIVED 255,880 FOR THE BURNS BUILDING AT 4 0 1 EAST HOUSTON FOR THE 1221 BROADWAY. HE, HE GOT MONIES OF $530,000 FOR 2 0 3 EAST BUILDING EAST JONES. HE GOT 200 AND, AND 2010, HE GOT $960,000 OF EDIF AND A FORGIVABLE LOAN OF $1.9 MILLION FOR GENERAL FUND FROM THE GENERAL FUND FOR THE BROADWAY LOSS. HE AND THERE ARE MORE, RIGHT? I JUST SPENT A FEW MINUTES LOOKING AT ALL THE MONEY HE'S RECEIVED. THOSE ARE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. DELMAN CAN ALSO GET STATE OF TEXAS HISTORIC CREDITS OF 20% FOR A $6 MILLION PROJECT. THAT'S $1.2 MILLION. HE, WE HAVE $150 MILLION OF HOUSING BOND MONEY. HE CAN ASK FOR MONIES FOR THEIR [01:05:01] THIS BILL. THESE BUILDINGS ALSO RESIDE IN THE OPPORTUNITY TAX IN, UH, INCENTIVE, WHICH WAS ESTABLISHED IN 2017 BY, UM, A PREVIOUS, UH, PRESIDENT. AND IT'S TO SPUR LONG-TERM PRIVATE SECTOR INVESTMENTS IN LOW INCOME, URBAN AND RURAL COMMUNITIES. THIS, THESE BUILDINGS RESIDE IN CENSUS BLOCK 11 0 6, 1 OF 24 CENSUS BLOCKS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO THAT QUALIFY FOR THESE FUNDS. THERE IS NO ECONOMIC HARDSHIP FOR DAVID EDELMAN, WHO CAN ALSO HIRE A LOBBYIST, JAMES MCKNIGHT, TO BUILD A CASE TO DEMOLISH THE BUILDING. HE PURCHASED THESE BUILDINGS IN 2014 AND THEN PURCHASED THE AVANZA BUILDING IN 2018. UM, AND NOBODY KNOWS EXACTLY HOW MUCH, BUT BCAT HAS IT AT JUST UNDER $2 MILLION. SOMEHOW ALMAN HAS BEEN ABLE TO FIND MONEY TO ACQUIRE THESE AND OTHER BUILDINGS OR PROJECTS, BUT HAS NO CLUE HOW TO SAVE THESE PRECIOUS HISTORIC BUILDINGS. AND SO IF WE CAN GET, UH, THE OTHER ONE FOR JASMINE, WHO WAS THE LAST PERSON, I'M VERY SAD THAT HE USES ECONOMIC HARDSHIP WHEN IT'S ONLY ABOUT HOW MUCH LESS HE WILL MAKE FROM THESE INVESTMENTS BY TEARING IT DOWN AND BUILDING FIVE STORIES HIGH. AND THEN THAT'S WHEN HE MAKES, AND I GUESS THAT'S WHAT SUSANNA WAS POINTING TO, THE PROFIT THAT HE'LL MAKE, RATHER THAN JUST MAINTAINING THE HISTORIC BUILDING WHERE HE CAN, WITH ALL THIS MONEY, HE CAN MAKE HIS MONEY BACK. WE NEED TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORY, OUR TREASURES, OUR PEOPLE. MR. IF MR. EDELMAN DOESN'T WANT TO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY TO PRESERVE THESE HISTORIC BUILDINGS, THEN WE ASK HIM TO DONATE THE BUILDINGS TO THE COMMUNITY SO THAT WE CAN RESTORE AND REHAB IT AND BRING THE BUILDINGS BACK TO LIFE. COMMUNITY MEMBERS WANT AND NEED HOUSING AND A COMMUNITY LAND TRUST COULD HELP THE KEEP THE HOUSING AFFORDABLE. PLEASE HONOR YOUR ROLE TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORIC BUILDINGS. UH, IF AN ORGANIZATION LIKE DI ESPERANZA WITH NO EXPERIENCE IN RESTORING AND FINANCING A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING COULD SAVE DERMAS, WHICH OHP HONORED AND RECOGNIZED IN 2022, THEN DATE DAVID DELMAN, ONE OF THE CITY'S LEADING DEVELOPERS, CAN PRESERVE THE RICH BOOK BUILDING AND 9 0 8 AS WELL, GRACIA. AND AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL WITHIN THE CITY'S WEBSITE, BUT IF YOU WANNA SEE THEM, I GOT THEM. THANK YOU. CAROL GONZALEZ. HELLO, MY NAME IS CAROL GONZALEZ AND I HAVE LIVED, UH, MY ENTIRE LIFE IN THE WEST SIDE, RIGHT THERE, CLOSE TO, UM, SAN FERNANDO AND COLORADO. AND I OPPOSE OF THE, UM, DEMOLITION. CAN YOU HEAR ME? I'M SORRY. OKAY. AND IT'S VERY, UM, FOR ME, IT'S VERY SYMBOLIC OF THE WEST SIDE. I STILL TAKE THE BUS RIGHT THERE, SO IT'S VERY CONVENIENT. AND JUST SEEING IT, IT'S KNOWING THAT IT MIGHT BE TORN DOWN. IT'S SOMETHING SAD, UM, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST FOR ME, BUT FOR OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHERE THE CATTLEMEN WAS AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE USED TO BE A NEXT TO IT, IT USED TO BE WHERE NOW IT'S, UH, THE, UM, I'M SORRY, THE VIA TRANS, WHERE THEY USED TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, UM, MUSIC FESTIVALS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. AND THAT WOULD BE SAD TO BE LOSING MORE AND MORE, UM, HISTORIC THINGS GOING ON. AND ALSO, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO USE THE REST OF MY TIME TO READ COMMENTS, UM, FROM MY FRIEND ANTONIO CASTANEDA, WHO COULDN'T BE HERE. AND IT SAYS, I AM ANTONIO CASTANEDA, 24 20 MCCULLOUGH AVENUE NUMBER, UH, APARTMENT 3 0 2, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 2. WRITING ABOUT ITEM 2023 DASH 4 0 8 9 0 8 AND NINE OH NINE HUNDRED AND NINE OH EIGHT WEST HOUSTON STREET AS A PROFESSIONAL TRAINED HISTORIAN, UH, FOR, UH, PROFESSOR ED MARITA, UM, ST. MARY'S UNIVERSITY, A MEMBER OF THE WEST SIDE PRESERVATION ALLIANCE, AND A 30 PLUS YEARS, UM, CIVIC ENGAGED STUDENT OF SAN ANTONIO. I WRITE IN STRONGEST OPPOSITION TO THE DEMOLITION OF THE RICH BU BOOK BUILDING, WHICH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO LANDMARK, 1985 IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OF KAMEN SQUARE, AND LIKEWISE TAKE GREAT ACCREDITATION TO THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION STAFF APPROVAL OF DEMOLITION TO WIT. ONE, THE CURRENT OWNERS KNEW THESE PROPERTIES WERE INDIVIDUAL LANDMARKS. UM, THANK YOU. UH, HAVE I DONE, WERE YOU CAROL? YES. SORRY. ISABEL GALVAN. [01:10:04] HI, UM, MY NAME IS ISABEL GALVAN AND I'M HERE. UH, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, MY OPPOSITION OF THE DEMOLITION OF CATTLEMAN SQUARE. I THINK THAT AT SOME POINT, WE AS A COMMUNITY, UM, NEED TO BE MORE CONSCIOUS AND RESPONSIBLE WHEN MAKING DECISIONS REGARDING HISTORICAL LANDMARKS AND THEIR CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. UM, PREVENTING THE INVASIVE GENTRIFICATION OF OUR LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES AND SAVORING OUR NEIGHBORHOODS FROM THIS GREED DRIVEN, DISINGENUOUS ONE-SIDED TRAJECTORY HAS BEEN AN ONGOING BATTLE FOR MY PEOPLE. THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS SURROUNDING THE SQUARE DOES NOT JUSTIFY DEMOLITION OF HISTORICAL STRUCTURES THAT CAN BE REHABILITATED AND REPURPOSED. UM, THIS AGENDA PRESENTS AND REQUESTS DEMOLITION WITH NO RESOLUTION. AND BECAUSE OF THAT ALONE, YOU CANNOT APPROVE THIS MOTION. IT IS NOT FEASIBLE. IT MAKES NO SENSE. CATTLEMAN SQUARE HOLDS PURPOSE, NOT JUST TANGIBLE, BUT ALSO IS A SYMBOL OF WHAT WAS ERASING HISTORY. INSTEAD OF PRESERVING, IT LEAVES MORE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY AND THE FUTURE GENERATIONS. WHAT IS MINIMAL? WHAT IS MINIMAL AND NOT A BIG DEAL. TO SOME IS THE COMPLETE AND TOTAL ERASURE OF AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND WILL HAVE A DEVASTATING IMPACT AND DOWN SPIRALING INFLUENCE ON AN ENTIRE DISTRICT SURVIVING IN A POVERTY STRICKEN AREA. PRESERVE, NOT DESTROY. THANK YOU. AND GILBERT? HERRERA. GILBERT. OKAY. UM, WE DO HAVE VOICEMAILS, EDWARD, IF YOU WANNA START THOSE. I, I THINK THERE'S 21 TOTAL. SO JUST REPAIR, UH, COMMISSIONERS WILL BEGIN WITH EXISTING VOICEMAILS AND THEN WE WILL TRANSITION TO THOSE THAT WE RECEIVE TODAY. BERNARD SANCHEZ, I LIVE AT 4 2 2 DRESDEN DRIVE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 3. I'M CALLING IN REGARDS TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16, UH, HDRC, CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 3 4 0 8. UH, IT'S IN REGARDS TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CATTLEMAN SQUARE, UM, ADDRESSES OF THE BUILDINGS 900 WEST HOUSTON, 9 0 4 WEST HOUSTON, 9 0 6 WEST HOUSTON, AND 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON. OUR CURRENT OWNER IS JAMES MCKNIGHT, ALONG WITH SOME OTHER PEOPLE. UM, PLEASE DO NOT DEMOLISH THESE LANDMARKS. UM, THE, WE HAD A MEETING WITH THINGS LIKE KNIGHT AND OTHER PEOPLE ON HIS SIDE ON ONSITE MEETING ABOUT A MONTH AGO. UH, THERE WAS AT LEAST 15 PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE. UM, AND MCKNIGHT STARTED THE MEETING BY SAYING THAT HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS, UH, DESIGNATED AS A HISTORIC DISTRICT. IT IS THE CATTLEMAN'S SQUARE DISTRICT, UM, IN THE FRONT OF US, IN FRONT OF THE MEETING, UH, OF THE BUILDING. UH, 900 WEST HOUSTON. THERE'S A A YEAR THAT HAS, THAT'S ON TOP OF THE BUILDING THAT SAYS 1923. UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE YEAR THAT IT WAS STARTED OR COMPLETED, BUT I THINK A HUNDRED YEARS CONSIDERED, YOU CAN CONSIDER IT AS, UM, AS HISTORIC. ANYWAYS, THIS GENTLEMAN, MCKNIGHT AND HIS COMPANY, THEY'RE NOT FROM SAN ANTONIO, THEY DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY, AND I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD, UH, ALLOW HIM TO DEMOLISH THIS BUILDING AGAIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, BERNARD. F MY NAME IS LINDA ORTEGA. I LIVE AT 25 0 5 SAUNDERS AND I AM CALLING ABOUT ITEM 16. I AM ALSO WITH THE HISTORICAL WESTSIDE ADDRESS ASSOCIATION. PLEASE DO NOT DESTROY THE TWO HISTORIC BUILDINGS WHICH ARE LOCATED IN CATTLEMAN SQUARE. THIS IS PART OF OUR HISTORY AND WE NEED TO SAVE THEM. IT SHOULD NOT BE DESTROYED, AND WE NEED TO STOP THE DEVELOP DEMOLISHES STRUCTURES IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE, JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE FEELS THAT THEY HAVE NO VALUE HISTORICALLY OR OTHERWISE, THEY ARE PART OF OUR HISTORY HERE IN THE WEST SIDE. AGAIN, I OPPOSE THE DEMOTION OF THE TWO HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN [01:15:01] CATTLEMAN SQUARE. THANK YOU. HELLO, MY NAME IS RACHEL . I LIVE AT 45 37 MONTEREY STREET IN DISTRICT FIVE, AND I AM CALLING ABOUT THE PROPOSED DEMOLITION OF BUILDINGS IN KAMAN SQUARE. ITEM 16, THE ADDRESSES ARE 909 0 6 9 0 4, 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON STREET AND 1 1 1 NORTH RIO. THIS BUILDINGS ARE ALMOST A HUNDRED YEARS OLD. I CAN SEE FROM THE RICH BOOK COMPANY NINE, UH, BOOK, UH, BUILDING 1923. AND I CAN SEE THAT INTRICATE BRICK PATTERN THAT IS PROBABLY NOT, UH, DOABLE AGAIN, AND I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE DEMOLISHED. THERE'S PLENTY OF, UH, WASTE THAT IT CAN BE RESTORED, AND ESPECIALLY IN AN AREA WHERE VIA UTSA, THERE'S HOSPITALS, SO THERE'S A LOT OF BUSINESSES IN THAT AREA, AND FUTURE USE COULD GO INTO HOUSING AND RETAIL. SO AGAIN, I SAY THAT THEY DO NOT NEED TO BE DEMOLISHED, NEED TO FIND SOMEONE THAT'S WILLING TO MAKE THE EXTRA EFFORT OF REHABBING THE BUILDING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGAIN, MY NAME IS RACHEL DELGADO AND I AM A RESIDENT OF DISTRICT FIVE. THANK YOU. HELLO, MY NAME IS SHANE BUCO. I AM FROM DALLAS, TEXAS, AND I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT ITEM ONE AND ITEM 16. I AM A HISTORIAN OF SAN ANTONIO, AND I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, PRESENT MY OPINIONS AGAINST ITEMS ONE AND 16, AS THE ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE OF BOTH OF THESE AREAS HAVE ALREADY BEEN LOST TO AN INSTRUCTION AND THE URBAN RENEWAL ALREADY AS THE WIDENING OF THE HOUSTON STREET IN THE EARLY, UM, 19 HUNDREDS, THE WIDENING OF HOUSTON STREET CAUSED MANY BLOCKS TO HAVE MAJORITY OF THE DWELLINGS AND BUILDINGS DESTROYED, WHICH TOOK A LOT OF THE ARCHITECTURAL HERITAGE OF THE SPANISH MISSION, UH, STYLE, THE SPANISH MISSION HOMES, AND ALSO THE ADOBE AND HAKA HOMES THAT WERE ALREADY THERE. AND SO THIS TOOK AWAY A LOT OF THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE SPANISH, MEXICAN, AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THAT LIVED IN SAN ANTONIO FORMALLY ON THE WEST SIDE. I'D ALSO LIKE TO NOTE THAT THE WIDENING OF THE HISTOR, THE HISTORY OF THE WIDENING OF STREETS AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND RENEWAL OF THESE AREAS LED TO THE GENTRIFICATION OF THE WEST SIDE, AND WHICH THEN ENDED UP LEAVING THE WEST SIDE, UM, OF SAN ANTONIO TO BE IGNORED AND HEAVENLY DISPLACED OF MEXICAN RESIDENTS. AND ITEM, ITEM ONE. HELLO, MY NAME IS SKY LINEHAN AND I AM CALLING FROM 1530 EAST CROCKETT STREET WHERE I LIVE. I'M CALLING ABOUT A CONCERN I HAVE ABOUT ITEM NUMBER 16. UM, SPECIFICALLY THE ADDRESS IS 900 AND 908 WEST HOUSTON STREET THAT ARE BOTH OWNED BY THE SAME PROPERTY OWNERS, I BELIEVE. SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS NOT CONDUCTED A STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING ANALYSIS OR PERFORMED A DUE DILIGENCE REVIEW WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS PURCHASED. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, THERE'S NO PROSPECTIVE BUYER, THERE'S NO DEVELOPER LINED UP, THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT PLAN ESTABLISHED IF THE DEMOLITION IS ALLOWED. AND THERE'S NO ALTERNATE PLAN PROPOSED FOR PARTIAL DEMOLITION OR EXPANSIONS OR ADDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED. THERE'S NO SPECIFIC USE OR TENANT OCCUPANCY THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED AT THIS TIME, EITHER FOR REHABILITATING THE STRUCTURE OR FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. THE PROPERTY OWNERS KNEW THAT THE PROPERTIES WERE INDIVIDUAL LANDMARKS BEFORE THEY PURCHASED THE PROPERTIES, AND THESE ARE STRUCTURES THAT WERE DESIGNATED HISTORIC IN THE YEAR 1985. AND THAT IS A BIG DEAL TO A LOT OF US IN THE COMMUNITY, SPECIFICALLY COMMUNITY MEMBERS OF THE WEST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO, WHO CONSIDER, UH, COWMAN SQUARE, VERY HISTORIC AND CULTURALLY IMPORTANT TO MANY GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE AND FAMILIES TO DEMOLISH THESE STRUCTURES IS A HUGE SLAP IN THE FACE TO THE HISTORIC WEST SIDE COMMUNITY THAT CONSIDER THESE MORE THAN JUST PROPERTIES [01:20:01] WITH VALUES TO MAKE PROFIT OFF OF. THESE PLACES HAVE CULTURAL STORIES TIED TO THEM THAT I'M NOT SURE THE DEVELOPERS FULLY GRASP. I REALLY CAN'T PUT INTO WORDS HOW MUCH OF A LOSS THIS WOULD BE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IF DEMOLITION IS CHOSEN OVER HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND REHABILITATION, AND WE'RE AT A POINT IN TIME WHERE SO MUCH OF CATTLEMAN SQUARE HAS ALREADY BEEN CHANGED AND ALTERED IN WAYS THAT ARE NOT REMINISCENT OF THE HISTORY OF THE AREA, I REALLY, REALLY URGE YOU TO CONSIDER WHAT THIS COULD DO TO THE PSYCHOLOGY OF A WHOLE COMMUNITY. EDWARD, I THAT ONE'S BEEN TWO MINUTES QUITE, AND THEN FULL PAUSE. UM, WE FOUND GILBERT HERRERA, IF HE WANTS TO COME UP AND GIVE YOUR COMMENTS. HI, HOW ARE YOU DOING FOLKS? HI. SORRY, I, I APOLOGIZE. UH, WITH MY ENTRANCE AND BACK AND FORTH, I WAS JUST KIND OF NERVOUS AND, UH, SO, UM, 'CAUSE BACK IN HIGH SCHOOL, I, I, I DID SPEECH. SIR, SIR, BEFORE YOU CONTINUE, UM, YEAH, I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. INTRODUCE YOURSELF, PLEASE. YES, I'M SORRY. YES. UM, SO TALKING ABOUT THE WEST SIDE, UH, RIGHT HERE. UM, SIR, SIR, INTRODUCE YOURSELF, PLEASE. OH, I'M PAUSE. I, I'M SORRY. UM, MY NAME'S GILBERT. UH, UH, ED, I DO APOLOGIZE. I'M JUST NERVOUS. SO, UM, WITH THIS, UH, HISTORIC WEST SIDE, UM, AND ALSO, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN LIVING HERE IN THE WEST SIDE, AND IF YOU, AND THEY LIVED HERE SO MANY, LIKE, SO MANY YEARS BEYOND GENERATIONS AND WITH THIS BUILDING, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE ERASING THEIR HISTORY AND WE DON'T WANT TO ERASE THEIR HISTORY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A A YOUNG KID LIKE ME, YOU KNOW, I, I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT MORE OF THIS, THIS BUILDING ABOUT, ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THE WEST SIDE, ABOUT EVERYTHING IN, IN, IN THE CULTURAL, UH, OF THE WEST SIDE. YOU KNOW, I, I WANT TO GET TO KNOW THAT, BUT HOW AM I GETTING TO KNOW THAT IF WE'RE GONNA KNOCK DOWN BUILDINGS, IF WE'RE GONNA REMOVE PROPERTIES, REMOVE HOUSES, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST, JUST LIKE THE SAME THING AS, YOU KNOW, WHAT I'VE, UH, WHEN I MOVED TO THE WEST SIDE, IT IS JUST, YOU KNOW, THEM TALKING ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, TO, YOU KNOW, DEMOLISH OR TO REMOVING, YOU KNOW, UH, THE STUDIO OF, OF, YOU KNOW, UM, THE UNIVISION, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY VIS ON, UH, THE STUDIO, I WAS LIKE, OKAY, WELL, MY GRANDMA AND GRANDPA, MY GRANDPARENTS, YOU KNOW, THEY GREW UP WATCHING THAT, YOU KNOW, AND I KIND OF LEARNED A LITTLE BIT MORE SPANISH AS THEY WENT ALONG, BUT THEN JUST LIKE HEARING THAT, I WAS LIKE, WHOA. I MEAN, THAT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA ERASE, YOU KNOW, CULTURAL, YOU GOTTA ERASE, UM, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, LIKE THE STUDIO, YOU ERASE THE WHOLE SHOW. I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE WHERE IT'S GONNA GO, BUT, YOU KNOW, ERASING THAT, IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, BUT, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT THIS, THIS RIGHT HERE, IT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST CAN'T. PLEASE. THANK YOU. WE WILL CONTINUE WITH VOICEMAILS. GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS SUZANNE BAKER, AND MY ADDRESS IS 10 22 SLY AVENUE IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 1 0. THE REASON I'M CALLING IS REGARDING THE ITEM NUMBER SIX IN YOUR AGENDA. UH, REGARDING CASE NUMBER 2023 DASH 4 0 8. THIS IS REGARDING THE BUILDINGS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OF CARMEN SQUARE. ADDRESSES ARE 900 WEST HOUSTON STREET, 9 0 4 WEST HOUSTON STREET, 9 0 6 WEST HOUSTON STREET, 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON STREET, AND ONE 11 NORTH RIO STREET. AS YOUR AGENDA ITEM STATES, THESE BUILDINGS ARE LOCATED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND SHOULDN'T BE DEMOLISHED. THE DEVELOPER PURCHASED THESE PROPERTIES KNOWING THEY ARE HISTORIC LANDMARK STRUCTURES AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE EXPOSED TO DEMOLITION. THE VALUE OF THESE STRUCTURES IS BOTH TANGIBLE AND INTANGIBLE. THE PHYSICAL FEATURES OF THE BUILDINGS, SUCH AS THE DESIGN, THE STYLE OF THAT AREA, THAT MY MATERIAL AND CONSTRUCTION ARE REFLECTIVE OF A TIME AND ERA MEANINGFUL TO THE EVOLUTION OF OUR CITY. THE BUILDINGS ARE TESTIMONY AND REMINDERS OF THE TRADITIONS, STORIES, AND EXPERIENCES THAT ARE INGRAINED IN THE MEMORY OF OUR LONG-TERM RESIDENTS. OUR PEOPLE IN SAN ANTONIO, OLD AND YOUNG, HAVE A DIRECT CONNECTION TO THESE STRUCTURES. I AM ASKING YOU TO CONSIDER THIS AND DO NOT APPROVE THE DEMOLITION, BECAUSE ONCE THESE STRUCTURES HAVE DEMOLISHED, THE INTANGIBLE HISTORY IS LOST AS WELL. THANK YOU. HELLO, MY NAME IS SUSAN RICHARDSON AND I RESIDE AT 1 1 8 EAST CAROLINA STREET. I AM CALLING ON BEHALF OF [01:25:01] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16 ON TODAY'S H DRCS, UM, AGENDA. UM, THE CATTLEMAN SQUARE PROPERTIES WERE PURCHASED BY MASTER PROPERTY PARTNERS IN 2014, KNOWING THEY WERE HISTORIC LANDMARKS, BUT HAVE MADE SO FAR ZERO EFFORT TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY WITHIN THAT CONTEXT. AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN SELLING THE PROPERTIES FOR A LARGE ENOUGH PROFIT FOR THEIR SATISFACTION. THIS IS THE ONLY REASON, TWO REASONS THAT THEY ARE WANTING TO HAVE THIS PROPERTY DEMO DEMOLISHED. TOO MANY BUILDINGS IN THAT DOWNTOWN AREA THAT ARE A PART OF THE HISTORICAL NARRATIVE OF OUR CITY HAVE BEEN DEMOLISHED RECENTLY. SO I URGE THE HDRC TO DE DENY THE MCKNIGHT'S PLC REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION, ESPECIALLY SINCE NO REPLACEMENT PLAN HAS BEEN PRESENTED FOR THIS PROPERTY AND OUR PROPERTIES. AND THESE WERE PURCHASED NEARLY A DECADE AGO, WHICH PROVIDES AMPLE TIME FOR DOING SO. AGAIN, I URGE YOU TO DECLINE OR DENY THE REQUEST ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 16. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. HELLO, MY NAME IS AMY CALEY. MY ADDRESS IS 2 33 LOTUS. MY, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THE BUILDINGS AT, IN THE NINE HUNDREDS ON HOUSTON STREET. UM, I AM OPPOSED TO THE REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION, UM, FOR SEVERAL REASONS. FIRST OF ALL, WE KNOW THAT THE CURRENT OWNER OF THE BUILDINGS, UH, PURCHASED THE BUILDINGS WHEN THEY WERE ALREADY, UH, DESIGNATED AS HISTORIC. UM, AND, UM, AS THE CITY ORDINANCES SAY, THE DEMOLITION OF A HISTORIC LANDMARK IS AN IRREPARABLE, UM, LOSS TO THE COMMUNITY, AND THAT'S VERY TRUE. HERE IN THE HISTORIC CATTLEMAN SQUARE, UM, AREA, THE CURRENT OWNER PURCHASED, AS I SAID, THE CURRENT OWNER PURCHASED THE BUILDING AS WHEN IT WAS ALREADY DESIGNATED AS, AS HISTORIC. THAT MEANS THAT IT WAS PURCHASED FOR A PRICE LESS THAN MARKET VALUE, OR AT LEAST THE MARKET VALUE, GIVEN THAT THERE WAS, AND IS THIS LIMITATION ON THE USE OF A BUILDING, WHICH IS CLEARLY SPELLED OUT THAT YOU CAN'T BUY A HISTORIC BUILDING AND THEN, UM, DEMOLISH IT. UM, THE PETITIONER, THE REQUESTER, SAYS THAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO SELL THE BUILDING, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT PRICE WAS ASKED. UM, BEAR COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT HAS THE VALUE OF THE BUILDING AT $1, UM, OR $100. I THINK THAT, UM, THERE SHOULD BE BUYERS. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS THAT IT WAS OFFERED FOR. UM, IT'S ALSO CLEAR IN THE, UM, THIS STATEMENT IS FOR HDRC, CASE 2023 DASH 4 0 8. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN FOR 900 WEST HOUSTON AND 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON. MY NAME IS TONY GARCIA. I LIVE AT 2 43 EAST ATCH AVENUE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. PER THE CITY, DEMOLITION OF A HISTORIC LANDMARK CONSTITUTES IRREPLACEABLE LOSS OF THE QUALITY AND CHARACTER OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. YET THE CITY RECOMMENDS DEMOLITION OF THESE BUILDINGS PER THE BCA WEBSITE. THE OWNERS HAVE HAD POSITION OF THESE BUILDINGS SINCE MAY 15TH, 2014, ALMOST 10 YEARS, AND NOW ARGUE FOR AN UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP 10 YEARS WITH NO IMPROVEMENTS TO THESE BUILDINGS AND OWNERSHIP WHEN MARKET CONDITIONS WERE FAVORABLE FOR ADAPTIVE REUSE. THIS APPEARS TO BE AN EXAMPLE OF DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT. THE HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION SHOULD NOW SHOULD IN NO WAY BE SUPPORTING DEMOLITION BY NEGLECT BY APPROVING THIS APPLICATION. I RESPECTFULLY ASK THE COMMISSION TO SUPPORT THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION FORESIGHT SHOWN BY SAN ANTONIO CITY COUNCIL BACK ON NOVEMBER 18TH, 1988 BY DENYING THIS APPLICATION. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. HI, THIS IS KAYLA MIRANDA, 10 13 SOUTH SAN JACINTO STREET, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 0 7. I AM CALLING ON ITEM NUMBER SEVEN 900 WEST HOUSTON. IT'S KNOWN AS THE RICH BOOK BUILDING. UM, [01:30:01] MY COMMENT IS THAT I AM AGAINST THIS, UM, I'M AGAINST THE DEMOLITION. UH, WE NEED TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORIC BUILDINGS, AND IT IS DESIGNATED HISTORIC FOR A REASON. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS IN DANGER OF CONSTANT GENTRIFICATION. WE'RE LOSING OUR CULTURE, WE'RE LOSING OUR HISTORY, AND WE'RE BEING BOUGHT OUT BY OUTSIDERS. IT'S TIME FOR PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY TO COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT AGAINST US. WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO LOSE. AND OUR COMMUNITY WHEN WE'VE ALREADY LOST SO MUCH, THE ENTIRE CATTLEMAN SQUARE IS IN DANGER RIGHT NOW. OPENING THE DOOR FOR ONE PROPERTY WILL OPEN THE DOOR FOR EVERY OTHER DEVELOPER THAT IS LOOKING FOR THEIR NEXT LUXURY APARTMENT COMPLEX. THE AVERAGE INCOME IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS 25,000 A YEAR. WHEN YOU REALLY BREAK THAT DOWN, THAT IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, YOU HAVE TO MAKE $22 AN HOUR TO AFFORD A TWO BEDROOM APARTMENT, AND THAT IS NOWHERE NEAR THE INCOME THAT WE HAVE. YET ALL OF THE INVESTORS THAT ARE COMING INTO OUR COMMUNITY ARE WANTING TO START EFFICIENCY APARTMENTS AT $1,200 A MONTH. THAT IS RIDICULOUS. IT IS NOT FOR OUR COMMUNITY. IT'S NOT FOR OUR PEOPLE. NOT TO MENTION ALL THIS, THE LEGACY HOMEOWNERS THAT PROPERTY TAXES WILL GO UP AND THEY'LL BE PRICE OUT OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES. A LOT OF OUR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR MORE THAN THREE GENERATIONS. I'M COMPLETELY AGAINST US. PLEASE DO NOT DEMOLISH. HI, MY NAME IS LUISA EZ. I'M AT 1750 WEST SUMMIT AVENUE 72 0 1, AND THAT WAS CAUSING IN REGARDS TO ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, UH, REGARDING THE RICHWOOD BUILDING, UM, IN THE KETTLEMAN SQUARE AREA. UM, I WANTED TO, UM, SUPPORT, SUPPORT EXPRESS MY SUPPORT FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THAT HISTORIC BUILDING. I BELIEVE THAT THE OWNER, UH, SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT, UH, HE WAS PURCHASING, UH, A TREASURE OF OF SAN ANTONIO HISTORY. AND, UM, IF HE HAS THE RESOURCES TO BUILD A MULTI-STORY COMPLEX THERE, HE, HE SHOULD HAVE THE RESOURCES TO, TO PRESERVE, UM, AND, AND CREATE, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL THERE THAT, THAT TELLS THE HISTORY OF, OF THAT AREA OF OLD SAN ANTONIO. UM, THANK YOU. HI, MY NAME IS NOCO. I LIVE AT 3 0 3 SOUTH PIT, SOUTH PINTO STREET, 7 8 2 0 7. UM, ITEM NUMBER SEVEN FOR, UH, RICH BOOK. AND I AM REQUESTING, OR I AM AGAINST THE DEMOLITION OF RICH BOOK. THANK YOU. HI, MY NAME IS STEVE VERTI, UH, 1 0 5 RENO STREET. I'M WITH GOVERNMENT HILL TOMORROW, AND I'M CALLING ABOUT 909 0 8 WEST HOUSTON STREET. UM, I, I, I DON'T, I'M, I'M CONCERNED THAT ALTHOUGH WE MAY BE, UH, FOLLOWING THROUGH ON EXECUTING A FAIR PROCESS, IT IT'S NOT REALLY EQUITABLE FOR THE THE WEST SIDE RESIDENTS. I, I DON'T, I I DON'T THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE INTENT OF PUTTING A A VIA BUS STATION THERE WAS TO TEAR DOWN ALL THE BUILDINGS AROUND IT AND PUTTING NEW ITEMS THERE THAT WAS DECLARED HISTORIC FOR A REASON. AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE MAINTAINED. I DON'T THINK A VACANT LOT BETTER SERVES THE WEST SIDE RESIDENCE. UH, PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW DEMO DEMOLITION. THANK YOU. HI, MY NAME IS LETICIA SANCHEZ AND MY ADDRESS IS 17 CRUZ ZIP CODE 7 8 2 0 7. I'M THE CO-CHAIR PERSON OF THE HISTORIC WEST SIDE RESIDENCE ASSOCIATION, WHICH REPRESENTS RESIDENTS WHO LIVE IN DISTRICT FIVE, THE MENIERE WEST SIDE. I'M SPEAKING ON AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. OUR ASSOCIATION OPPOSES THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST TO DEMOLISH THESE HISTORICALLY DESIGNATED STRUCTURES, WHICH ARE PART OF SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORIC CATTLEMAN SQUARE AND ARE LOCATED ONE NORTH OF OUR, UH, ONE STREET NORTH OF OUR ASSOCIATION'S BOUNDARIES. THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR OUR OPPOSITION. ONE, THESE BUILDINGS ARE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT TO OUR RESIDENTS. TWO, THE CITY SHOULD NOT APPROVE THE DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC LANDMARKS JUST BECAUSE THE OWNER IS UNABLE TO DEVELOP OR SELL OFF PROPERTIES AT A PROFIT MARGIN THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE OWNER, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE OWNER KNOWS HE OR SHE IS PURCHASING A HISTORIC LANDMARK. THREE, THE OWNER [01:35:01] HAS NOT EXHAUSTED ALL OPTIONS IN FINDING FUNDING TO REHABILITATE THE STRUCTURES. WE OPPOSE THE DEMOLITION OF THESE STRUCTURES BECAUSE WE WANT THE CITY TO SAVE THE FEW REMAINING HISTORIC STRUCTURES IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT HELP TO TELL THE STORY OF OUR PEOPLE AND OUR CULTURE. CATTLEMAN SQUARE HAS ALREADY LOST 50% OF THE STRUCTURES WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. IF EACH NEW REQUEST TO DEMOLISH AN HISTORIC BUILDING IS APPROVED, THE ENTIRE HISTORIC DISTRICT WILL DISAPPEAR. AND ALONG WITH IT, THE HISTORY OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HELPED TO BUILD OUR CITY, OUR ASSOCIATION IS COMPRISED OF RESIDENTS WHOSE FAMILIES HAVE LIVED IN THE HISTORIC WEST SIDE FOR MANY GENERATIONS, AND WHOSE HISTORY IS TIED TO THESE BUILDINGS. THESE ARE FAMILIES WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED THEIR LABOR TO MAKE THE CITY WHAT IT IS. UNFORTUNATELY, EACH YEAR WE LOSE MORE AND MORE OF OUR HISTORIC STRUCTURES TO DEMOLITIONS. AND WITH EACH BUILDING THAT IS DEMOLISHED, MORE AND MORE OF OUR COMMUNITY'S HISTORY IS ERASED. IN CONVERSATION WITH MR. EDELMAN, HE STATED THAT ALTHOUGH THE BUILDINGS WERE HISTORICALLY DESIGNATED, THERE WAS NOTHING HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT ABOUT THEM. I'M HERE TO STATE THAT THEY ARE HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT TO OUR PEOPLE AND OUR CITY. OUR HISTORY MATTERS TOO. THE RECOMMENDATION TO PRESERVE THE FACADE OF THE BUILDINGS IS UNACCEPTABLE. WOULD ANYONE, HI, MY NAME IS MIRANDA LARSON. I'M A PROPERTY AND BUSINESS OWNER AT 1601 GUADALUPE STREET, AND I'M CALLING TO, UM, SPEAK ON ITEM NUMBER 16. UM, I WANTED TO SPEAK AGAINST THE CATTLEMAN SQUARE DEMOLITION. I THINK IT WOULD BE A HUGE HISTORIC LOSS TO OUR COMMUNITY SINCE IT WAS AN IMPORTANT COMMERCE CENTER FOR IMMIGRANTS. AND AS A PROPERTY OWNER OF, UM, A BUILDING THAT IS HISTORIC MYSELF, I DO THINK THAT PART OF WHAT IT MEANS TO TAKE A PROPERTY ON LIKE THAT IS THAT YOU DO HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN, AND THAT IS TO PROTECT AND UPKEEP IT. THANKS. BYE-BYE. HI, MY NAME IS DR. JEAN MORALES. MY ADDRESS IS 2 2 0 0 ABDO LANE, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 2 4. I'M CALLING IN REFERENCE TO ITEM SEVEN, ADDRESS 909 0 4 9 0 6 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON STREET AND ONE 11 NORTH RIO STREET. UH, DEAR MEMBERS OF THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION, MY NAME IS JIM MORALE. I'M A CONCERNED SAN ANTONIO CITIZEN AND FORMER HDRC MEMBER. THIS CONCERNS THE AGENDA. ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THE RICH BOOK BUILDING IN CATTLEMAN SQUARE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. I RECOMMEND THAT THE HDRC VOTE AGAINST DEMOLISHING THE BUILDING. THE COMMISSION REPRESENTS THE HISTORICAL VALUES OF OUR COMMUNITIES, BUT ALSO NEEDS TO UPHOLD THE IDEALS OF NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION BY OPPOSING ITS DESTRUCTION. THE DEMOLITION OF THIS BUILDING WILL BRUSH AWAY THE CITY'S HISTORY AS PREVIOUS MEASURES LIKE SEGREGATION, RED LINING, AND URBAN RENEWAL HAVE DONE TODAY. DEVELOPERS IN KAMAN SQUARE USE SIMILAR WEAPONIZED TACTICS TO TRY TO DESTROY COMMUNITIES RATHER THAN PRESERVE SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORY FOR ITS PEOPLE, PLEASE PRESERVE THIS BUILDING IN KAMAN SQUARE AND THE HISTORIC WEST SIDE, PRESERVE IT FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS BY VOTING AGAINST ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, THIS IS VINCENT MICHAEL OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO AT 1146 SOUTH ALAMO STREET. CALLING ON BEHALF OF PRESIDENT KATHY VIC. WE HAVE A STATEMENT REGARDING AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN 900 WEST HOUSTON STREET, 9 0 6 WEST HOUSTON, 9 0 4 WEST HOUSTON ONE 11 NORTH 3 0 9 0 8 WEST HOUSTON. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OPPOSES THE DEMOLITION OF THESE TWO HISTORIC BUILDINGS ON HOUSTON STREET. THE 1923 RICH BOOK BUILDING RETAINS EXCEPTIONAL ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE WITH ITS WIRE CUT TAPESTRY, BRICK FACADE SURMOUNTED BY A MOLDED MASONRY CORNICE WHILE REHABILITATION COSTS RISE. SO DO COST FOR DEMOLITION IN NEW CONSTRUCTION. NO PLAN FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED. TO PROVIDE A COMPARISON WITH THE COST OF REHABILITATION, THE CLAIM OF ECONOMIC HARDSHIP RESTS SOLELY ON HOW CURRENT RENTAL RATES AFFECT REHAB OF THE EXISTING BUILDING. IT DOES NOT ENTERTAIN ANY SCENARIOS THAT WOULD REDEVELOP THE ENTIRE BLOCK AT A HIGHER DENSITY, GIVEN THE LARGE AMOUNT OF VACANT LAND AND PARKING. SECONDLY, THE HARDSHIP CLAIM DOES NOT INCLUDE MARKETING INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS FOR SALE, ONLY THIS SITE AS A WHOLE. FINALLY, THE OWNERS HAVE NOT DEMONSTRATED HOW DEMOLITION IN AND OF ITSELF WOULD ALLEVIATE THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP OR IMPROVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD DEMOGRAPHIC PLANS FOR LOFT DEVELOPMENT AT 4 21 NORTH MEDINA, A SIMILAR BUILDING THREE BLOCKS AWAY, PASSED ITS ZONING COMMISSION JUST WEEKS AGO, DEMONSTRATE THE POTENTIAL FOR THESE BUILDINGS RE USED, RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED. THERE ARE ALSO, UH, FOUR VOICEMAILS THAT NEED TRANSLATION SERVICES. SO I'D ASK THE TRANSLATION SERVICES TO COME UP NOW. WE'LL PLAY THOSE VOICEMAILS AND THEN THEY'LL TRANSLATE. [01:40:23] YOU ALREADY TRANSCRIBED THEM. SAY THAT AGAIN? DID YOU ALREADY TRANSCRIBE THEM? I, I HAVE THAT. YOU CAN JUST READ THEM. YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. HELLO, MY NAME IS ANNA POLANCO. MY PHONE NUMBER IS (210) 750-2582. I'M CALLING BECAUSE I DON'T AGREE WITH THE DEMOLITION OF RICH BOOK BUILDING. THIS IS AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. HELLO, MY NAME IS BLANCA RIVERA. I'M CALLING ABOUT ABOUT A RICHWOOD BUILDING I SUPPORT. WELL, I GIVE MY SUPPORT FOR THE BUILDING NOT TO BE DEMOLISHED BECAUSE IT HAS A LOT OF HISTORY, A LOT OF TRADITION, WHICH NEEDS TO BE KEPT. INSTEAD, IT NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED. HELLO, MY NAME IS OLIVIA CRUZ. MY ADDRESS IS TWO ONE ONE NINE REVA STREET. MY PHONE NUMBER IS (210) 287-4634. I'M CALLING ABOUT THE DEMOLITION OF THE KERMAN BUILDING. WE ARE AGAINST THE DEMOLITION. IT'S A HISTORIC PLACE. THANK YOU. GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS EVANGEL ANGELINA VINUEVA. MY PHONE NUMBER IS (210) 797-2379. I'M CALLING BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH THE DEMOLITION OF THE CATTLEMAN BUILDING. IT'S A HISTORIC BUILDING AND IT'S NOT FAIR TO DEMOLISH IT. PLEASE TAKE OUR OPINION INTO CONSIDERATION TO AVOID DEMOLITION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, AND THAT CONCLUDES THE PUBLIC COMMENT. THANK YOU. UM, DO ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY REBUT? UM, CAN I HAVE THE APPLICANT COMMENT? DO YOU HAVE ANY, WANNA REBUT ANYTHING THAT YOU'VE HEARD TODAY? UH, JUST PULL TO MIC TO YOU, PLEASE, SIR. PUSH, THERE IT IS. I MADE A FEW NOTES, SO I WANT TO JUST RESPOND TO A FEW THINGS. UM, ON THE NO REPORT, WHEN WE BOUGHT THE BUILDING, WE ACTUALLY DID HAVE A REPORT. WE, I WOULD SAY WE FUNDAMENTALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT WE WERE DEALING WITH. SO WE DIDN'T PROVIDE THAT REPORT BECAUSE WE PROVIDED A MORE CURRENT REPORT, WHICH, SO CONSISTENT WITH WHAT TYPICALLY THE COMMISSION REQUIRES AND WHAT STAFF SUGGESTS WHEN YOU ASKING FOR SOMETHING, THAT'S A VERY CURRENT PIECE OF INFORMATION. IN FACT, THAT SAME COMPANY, PCA CONSULTANTS THAT WE HIRE GENERALLY ALMOST ALWAYS TO EVALUATE BUILDINGS. WE HAD THAT SIMILAR REPORT, HAPPY TO PROVIDE IT. UM, THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE THAT THE BUILDINGS, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS DESIGNATED IN 1988 AS A, AS A LA AND I MADE A COMMENT THAT THE BUILDINGS PRIOR TO THAT DESIGNATION HAD NOT BEEN INDEPENDENTLY OR INDIVIDUALLY LANDMARKED. SO THEY WERE NEVER ON A CITY LANDMARK LIST. THAT WAS THE COMMENT I WAS MAKING. SO I FEEL LIKE IT GOT TAKEN OUTTA CONTEXT WHEN THAT ONE PHONE CALLER MENTIONED IT. UM, THERE WAS A CALL, UH, MENTIONED THAT I NEGLECTED THE BUILDINGS OR WE NEGLECTED THE BUILDINGS. I WOULD SAY THEY'RE SUBSTANTIALLY IN THE SAME CONDITION AS WHEN WE BOUGHT 'EM. I, WE'VE MAINTAINED THEM AND TAKEN CARE OF WHAT WE'VE HAD. WE HAVE NOT DONE A MAJOR RENOVATION BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO MAKE THAT ECONOMIC MODEL WORK. AND AS I MENTIONED, WE'VE TRIED, BUT I DON'T FEEL IT'S FAIR TO CATEGORIZE WHAT WE'VE DONE AS NEGLECT. BUT HAVE WE RENOVATED AND IMPROVED THEM? NO, THAT, NOT SIGNIFICANTLY. UM, AND I WANTED TO RESPOND ALSO TO GRACIE A LITTLE BIT. WE'VE TALKED AND, UM, SHE MADE THE POINT THAT I'M SUPER FAMILIAR WITH THE INCENTIVES AND SHE MADE A GREAT POINT. I NOT EVEN RECOGNIZE THE TOTALITY OF SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT SHE HAD MENTIONED. AND SO I WOULD SAY THAT THE POINT THAT I WAS MAKING WAS IF I COULD DO IT, IF THE INCENTIVES WERE ADEQUATE, IF I WOULD KNOW HOW TO DO IT, AND IT WOULD BE DOABLE AND I WOULD DO IT. THAT'S WHY WE BOUGHT 'EM. SO I DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, A LOT HAS BEEN SAID, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S FACES THE HARDSHIP QUESTION DIRECTLY, BUT THE SORT OF MORE MORAL QUESTION AND THE HONOR QUESTION THAT'S BEEN SUGGESTED BY MANY OF THE SPEAKERS HERE TODAY, I FEEL LIKE I NEED TO RESPOND TO, WHICH IS, UM, YES. I MEAN, THAT WAS OUR FULL INTENTION. AND JUST BECAUSE IT WAS OUR, WHEN WE BOUGHT THE BUILDINGS, WE KNEW WE WERE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. YES, I UNDERSTOOD THAT. WE KNOW THAT APPRECIATE THAT. UH, WE BELIEVED IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD'S DEVELOPMENT [01:45:01] AND SORT OF EVOLUTION. I BELIEVE THAT I PUT A STAKE IN THE GROUND. WE BOUGHT THE BUILDINGS, WE WERE DOING THAT, AND AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO MAKE ANY VIABLE ECONOMIC REASONABLE, NOT EVEN MINOR, JUST EVEN REMOTELY REASONABLE, UH, RATE OF RETURN ON ANY PROJECT THAT WE'VE TRIED TO CONCEIVE OF OVER THESE 10 YEARS. SO THERE, THERE'S NO DOUBT WE WEREN'T WAITING TO GET THIS. LIKE IF I COULD, AS I TOLD GRACIE AND OTHERS ON THE WALK, IF I COULD UNWIND HISTORY AND NOT HAVE BOUGHT, YES, I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT I WOULDN'T HAVE BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SO DIFFICULT. AND THE OTHER COMMITMENT THAT I WILL MAKE TO THE COMMISSION, AND IT'S NOT, YOU CAN TAKE THIS HOWEVER YOU WANT IT, BUT, BUT ASSUMING THAT YOU GRANT OUR REQUEST, WE DON'T HAVE THE REPLACEMENT PLANS IN PLACE BECAUSE WE WILL TAKE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT OF DOLLARS TO DEVELOP A SET OF PLANS THAT WE COULD CONSIDER TO MAKE THAT PROJECT WORK AND BRING IT BACK TO, TO GAIN APPROVAL OF THAT. BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THOSE PLANS IF WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO, NO, WE CAN CAN DO THAT WITH THE SITE. BUT WHILE THAT IS UNDERWAY, I'VE TOLD CROSS YELLOW BEFORE AND I'VE TOLD OTHERS, WE ARE HAPPY TO WORK WITH YOU IF THERE'S A WAY TO DO THIS. IF, IF SOMEBODY KNOWS ABOUT INCENTIVES THAT I DON'T KNOW ABOUT, BUT IT'S GONNA BE SIGNIFICANT AND WE PROVE THAT WE POINTED THAT OUT, IT'S GONNA BE A, AN INSANE AMOUNT OF MONEY ON THESE PROJECTS NOW TO GET IT TO GO. AND IT'S GONNA BE VERY DIFFICULT. SO, BUT I'M HAPPY TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THAT. I GIVE MY COMMITMENT, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE RULING ON OR STIPULATING TOO, BUT I, I AM WILLING TO DO THAT. AND SO WE WILL CONTINUE TO TALK TO PEOPLE. THAT'S WHY WE MARKETED THE BUILDINGS, MADE IT AVAILABLE. UM, I'LL MEET WITH THE COMMUNITY, THE WEST SIDE COMMUNITY ON A REGULAR BASIS. AS I SAID, I'M FROM HERE AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HERE, WE'RE JUST DOWN THE STREET, SO HAPPY TO CONTINUE. SO YEAH, I'M WILLING TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE. SO, UM, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WANNA SAY, SIR? I DID, I DID WANT TO ADD SOMETHING TO IT, JUST, JUST BECAUSE I WAS THE ONE THAT WAS BRINGING UP THE, THE CODE. I WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING. I, I JUST, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF HEARING PEOPLE, USING HIM, BUYING THE PROPERTY AS SOME KIND OF, UH, USE IT AGAINST HIM IN THIS INSTANCE. I MEAN, THE CODE CONTEMPLATES SOMEBODY OWNING A BUILDING THAT MAY NEED DEMOLITION. AT ONE POINT THEY WERE NOT NEGLECTING THE BUILDING. THEY WERE TRYING TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF THE BUILDING. HE HAS BEEN GOOD STEWARDS OF OTHER BUILDINGS, BUT IT IS CONTEMPLATED THAT SOMEBODY AND OWNER, IT MAY NOT WORK AND THEN MAY HAVE TO COME FORWARD WITH DEMOLITION. AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A BALANCE. IT SAYS THAT IN THE CODE. IT IS A BALANCE. NO ONE'S SAYING THAT HISTORIC IS NOT IMPORTANT, BUT IT'S A BALANCE AGAINST THE COMMUNITY AS WELL. WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE COMMUNITY? WE, WE HAD A LETTER FROM THE GARDENDALE NEIGHBORHOOD SAYING THE MANY UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES IN SUPPORT OF THIS SAYING THAT MANY UNDEVELOPED PROPERTIES SIT WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF GARDENDALE SIMILAR TO THE, THESE BUILDINGS. WITH OUR CITY EVOLVING AND THRIVING WITH NEW DEVELOPMENT IN OTHER AREAS, PROGRESS IN OUR INNER CITY WEST SIDE IS INEVITABLE. THERE ARE INDIVIDUALS AND DEVELOPERS READY TO INVEST IN OUR AREA AND OUR TIME IS NOW. DEVELOPMENT AT THIS POINT IS CRUCIAL. WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH DEVELOPING THE AREA. SO THE BALANCE I'M SAYING HERE IS PART OF, UH, WHAT CAN BE A DRAG ON THE COMMUNITY IS LEAVING A BUILDING JUST SITTING THERE AND NOT BEING ABLE TO ECONOMICALLY GET THAT MOVING. SO I WANT THAT TO BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION AS WELL, IS THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT ALL THOSE THINGS AND NOW WE'VE SHOWN THAT WE MEET THE REQUIREMENTS THAT CODE STAFF IS, IS IN SUPPORT OF THAT. SO I, I JUST DON'T WANNA FORGET THE FACT THAT IT CAN BE, THAT THAT BALANCE IS THERE. IT CAN BE A DRAG ON A COMMUNITY TO LEAVE IT THERE TOO. THANK YOU. SO, UM, BEFORE WE OPEN UP QUESTIONS FOR COMMISSIONERS, I, I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, SO BASED ON, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MUCH ALL THE COMMENTS THAT WERE HAPPENING FROM THE, UM, FROM THE COMMUNITY, UM, ONE THING THAT WAS STATED CONSTANTLY AND AND YOU'VE EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT YOURSELF, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE BUILDING, YOU HAVEN'T DONE, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING INSIDE OF THE BUILDING AND YOU STATE THAT IT'S GONNA BE A, UM, SIGNIFICANT COST, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, IMPOSSIBILITY FOR YOU TO, TO TURN A PROFIT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, IN YOUR WORDS, IT WAS LIKE AROUND 1%, UM, FOR THE BUILDING. SO YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR QUITE SOME TIME, SO I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY BUILDING, EVERY PROPERTY DOESN'T RETURN THE SAME TYPE OF PROFITS. UM, SO IN THIS SITUATION, WHY NOT, YOU KNOW, TRY TO REHAB THE INSIDE OF THIS BUILDING AND GET IT, YOU KNOW, HABITABLE TO USE? YEAH, I, I THINK IT'S ABOUT THE OVERALL LEVEL OF, I HATE TO SAY IT THIS WAY, BUT THE LOSS. HOW BIG IS THE LOSS? WE'RE NOT MAKING MONEY ON THIS. EVEN IF WE HAVE THIS RIGHT TO DEMOLISH, WE WE'RE ALREADY GONNA BE IN A LOST POSITION. AND THAT'S WHY ON THOSE PROFORMAS, I PUT ZERO AS THE CURRENT VALUE, UM, TAKING 'EM FROM ZERO TO, TO GO FORWARD. SO WE RECOGNIZE THEM THAT WE'RE IN THAT LOST POSITION. [01:50:01] SO THE, THE QUESTION IS, CAN YOU GO WITH THAT DEEP OF A LOSS? UM, THAT'S WHY WE'VE DEALT WITH PROSPER WEST. WE CITY EDUCATION PARTNERS, WE TALKED TO NONPROFITS THAT COULD POTENTIALLY, UH, BRING OTHER RESOURCES TO PLAY, NONE OF WHICH WERE SUCCESSFUL. SO I WOULD SAY IT'S JUST THAT THE, THE TOTALITY OF THAT IS, IS SIGNIFICANT. AND SO, UM, I'M NOT PREPARED TO DO THAT AND NOT, LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S A COMPLICATED QUESTION. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP THE LOSS IS AND WHAT, WHAT YOU WOULD THINK IS, IS OKAY, BUT I'M NOT PREPARED TO DO IT. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE COMMISSION? I DO, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. MR. CHAIR, I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT I THINK COMMISSIONER ZUKO ALSO HAD HIS HAND RAISED. JIMMY, YOU CAN SPEAK FIRST. THANK YOU. JUST VERY QUICKLY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR A FEW PEOPLE. MR. ALDERMAN, UM, WHEN YOU PRESENTED THIS IN 2021 FOR, FOR DEMOLISHING AND IT WAS DENIED, DID YOU APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AT ALL AT FOLLOWING THAT DECISION? WE ACTUALLY WITHDREW AFTER MEETING WITH THE DRC. WE NEVER HAD A RULING AND, AND SPECIFICALLY RESPONDED TO THE REQUEST THAT YOU NEED TO MARKET THIS MORE, YOU NEED TO DO MORE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID. SO I, AND I EVEN TOLD MY PARTNER GUYS, WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO WORK EVERY ANGLE POSSIBLE TO FIND A, A WAY TO SAVE THESE BUILDINGS AND FIND A USER OR TENANT BUYER, ANY OF THE ABOVE TO DO IT. THAT'S WHAT WE DID. AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, BASED ON WHAT YOU'VE PRESENTED HERE, UH, ARE YOU COMMITTED TO THE DEBRIS DEVELOPMENT ALL THE WAY TO COMPLETION WITH THE PLANS THAT YOU'VE LAID OUT, UH, IN THE PACKET? YES. OKAY. THEN MY NEXT QUESTION IS FOR STAFF. UM, WHAT'S DIFFERENT ON THIS APPLICATION VERSUS THE 2021 APPLICATION? THERE'S A LOT MORE, ACTUALLY. UM, MORE RECENTLY THERE'S BEEN TWO ADDITIONAL STRUCTURAL, ACTUALLY THREE ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING LETTERS THAT SPEAK TO THE FEASIBILITY OF ADAPTING FOR A REUSE AND WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED IN TERMS OF REPLACING STRUCTURE. AND, AND REALLY KIND OF THE, THE TIPPING POINT FOR THE RICH BOOK BUILDING IS THE FACT THAT, UM, THE STRUCTURE WOULD HAVE TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY UPGRADED IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE ANY OTHER USE. UM, AND GIVEN THE CONDITION OF THE, THE FACADE, WE THINK THAT WE'RE ALREADY LOOKING AT A SUBSTANTIAL REBUILDING OF A LOT OF THE THINGS JUST TO PRESERVE IT. UM, SO I THINK THAT CASE HAS BEEN PRESENTED HERE. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION WAS IN 2021? I DON'T KNOW THAT WE EVER GOT TO THAT POINT BECAUSE IT NEVER WAS SCHEDULED FOR A HEARING. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. IF I MAY INTERJECT SINCE I WAS THERE BACK THEN AND I DID GO TO THE SITE VISIT BACK THEN, UM, I DON'T, IT WASN'T SO MUCH AS A CASE. IT WAS REALLY A SITE VISIT TO ALSO SEE KIND OF THE, THE AREA, THE, THE STATE OF THE BUILDING. UM, I WOULD SAY THE BUILDING HAS, OF COURSE, WELL, THERE'S A SHORT LITTLE FIRE IN THE OTHER, I DON'T KNOW WHICH NUMBER, THE SMALLER BUILDING. BUT I THINK ALREADY THERE WE GOT A SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT? AND I THINK THE CONCLUSION ALSO FROM THAT, MY RECOMMENDATION AS ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS AT THAT MEETING WAS, WE NEED TO LOOK AT ECONOMIC HARDSHIP AS BEING, THERE'S CLEARLY NOT A LOSS OF CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. I MEAN, LIKE THAT IS, BUT THAT'S NOT EVEN TO BE DISCUSSED HERE. I MEAN, WE, WE CAN KEEP THE, I MEAN THE BUILDING, THE HISTORY, UM, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, RIGHT? I MEAN, SO I DO BELIEVE THAT BACK THEN WAS THE DECISION, ECONOMIC HARDSHIP IS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED. THERE JUST HADN'T BEEN ENOUGH TIME TO EVEN DO THAT CLAIM. BUT BUILDING, I MEAN, ITSELF, THE STRUCTURE AND THE DETERIORATING ON ONE SIDE, IT'S THE SAME. IT'S NOT LIKE THERE WAS NO NEGLECT IN THE LAST THREE YEARS. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. UM, AND THEN TO, UM, MA'AM, I FORGOT GARCIA GARCIA, UH, FOR COMMUNITY ACTIVISM, WHAT HAS GONE ON IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD? NOT THE BUILDING, NOT THAT BLOCK, NOT THAT CORNER, BUT WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES HAVE YOU SEEN GO ON IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD? AND YOU CAN ELABORATE AS LITTLE OR AS MUCH JUST OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD. YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING. JUST KIND OF GETTING AN IDEA FOR WHAT GOES ON THERE. I'M, I MEAN, I THINK THAT 34 PEOPLE THAT SPOKE UP ARE, ARE BASICALLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEARNED MORE ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION. I THINK WE RECOGNIZE THAT THE WEST SIDE, UNLIKE OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS IN THE CITY, AND THIS WAS THE ONLY HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THE WEST SIDE, YOU KNOW, IS NOT BEING PROTECTED. SO I THINK THERE'S THE CONSCIOUSNESS, I THINK IN 2021, THE WHIT BUILDING CAME UP AND THAT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF, OF, YOU KNOW, COVID. BUT PEOPLE WERE STILL ORGANIZING AND TRYING TO PRESERVE IT. AND WE CAME TO YOU ALL AND YOU ALL AGREED WITH US. AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT HAS TO BE DONE, BUT THERE'S CONVERSATION. YOU KNOW, WHEN SCOBY BUILDING CAME UP, I THINK COMMUNITY MEMBERS WERE [01:55:01] SPEAKING TO HOUSING, BUT HOUSING THAT COULD ALSO BE AFFORDABLE FOR THE RESIDENTS IN THAT AREA AND NOT JUST PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE COMING IN. I KNOW THAT, UH, EDELMAN'S, UM, UH, UH, UH, HIS OTHER PERSON THAT'S ON THIS, UH, GROUP, WHEN WE WENT TO VISIT IT, YOU KNOW, WE, I SAID, I LOOKED AT BCAT AND IT SAYS IT'S A HUNDRED DOLLARS VALUE AND $350,000 IN THE LAND. WHY DON'T YOU GIVE IT TO US? WE'LL PAY A HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR IT AND WE'LL TRY PRESERVING IT. UM, HE KIND OF THOUGHT ABOUT IT, HE DIDN'T SEEM TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HISTORIC TAX CREDITS FROM THE STATE. SO WHEN I MENTIONED THAT HE COULD GET $1.2 MILLION, HE WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED. SO AGAIN, HARDSHIP AGAIN MEANS, YOU KNOW, LET, LET'S LOOK AT THESE OTHER NUMBERS. OKAY. MR. SO I'M ANSWERING THE QUESTION. I'M SORRY. SORRY. I WANNA FOCUS ON THE QUESTION. WHAT LOOKING FOR, AND SO, SO THERE'S, THERE'S JUST BEEN A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS AROUND HOUSING MA'AM. WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES LIKE DOISM TYPE STUFF. NOT, NOT PROTESTS, NOT MARCHES. I'M TALKING ABOUT HAVE THERE BEEN, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY FESTIVALS THERE, FAIRS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, NOT THAT CITY, NOT THAT BLOCK, RATHER IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES GO ON THERE TO STIMULATE COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? AND MA'AM, BEFORE YOU ANSWER, PLEASE BE BRIEF. 'CAUSE WE HAVE OTHER COMMISSIONS. I MEAN, I, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ORGANIZING TO, AGAIN, HAVE PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THAT AREA. UM, PARADES, FESTIVALS THERE. THE PA WEST SIDE, YOU HAVE PARIS FESTIVAL NAME FOR THAT. THE CATTLEMAN SQUARE. SIR, SIR, IF WE WANNA SPEAK THAT. SO THE CATTLEMAN SQUARE FESTIVAL, UM, I THINK AGAIN, A LOT OF COMMUNITY GROUPS, IT'S NOT EVEN ONE. I WAS SURPRISED WHEN THREE FOUR GROUP PEOPLE CAME TODAY. THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THAT. OH, ROLAND ZUKA GUYS, SIR? SURE. I HAD GONE ON, UH, ROLAND MOOKA, DISTRICT FIVE. I HAD GONE ON, UH, THE SECOND TO THE LAST SITE VISIT AND WE WERE ABLE TO GO INSIDE THE BUILDINGS. I RECOGNIZED THAT THE TOTAL RESTORATION OF THE RICH BOOK BUILDING WOULD BE RATHER EXPENSIVE AND IT WOULD BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO REPURPOSE. BUT I, I'M A LITTLE, I WAS A LITTLE TAKEN ABACK THAT THERE'S NO, UH, HALFWAY MEASURES, UH, TO SAVING THE FACADE. THERE'S A, A, AN ILLUSTRATION OF, I THINK IT WAS THE GOMEZ SOMETHING, UH, FIRM THAT DID A, A ILLUSTRATION OF A BUILDING THAT UTILIZED THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING AND THEN BUILT UP BEYOND THAT. UH, THERE IS ALSO THAT SECOND BUILDING, THE SA DIE BUILDING THAT, UH, LOOKED LIKE IT WAS, UH, RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE. AND ACCORDING TO THE BUDGET THAT YOU HAVE, IT WAS JUST MAYBE $2 MILLION OR SOMETHING, UM, TO DO OR LESS THAN THAT. I'M LOOKING AT, UH, LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW. UH, THAT BUILDING COULD BE SAVED. THE, THE PLANS THAT YOU HAVE FOR THE, FOR THE APARTMENT BUILDING, MIXED USE APARTMENT BUILDING WITH THE, WITH THE PARKING GARAGE. UH, THAT PARKING GARAGE COULD TOTALLY SURROUND THAT SA DIE AS A TOOL AND DIE OR WHATEVER IT IS. COMMISSIONER MAZU, MR. MAZUA, CAN I ASK, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? 'CAUSE YOU'RE MAKING STATEMENT. SO DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? HOLD ON. WE JUST HAD AUDIO DROP. HOLD ON FOR A SECOND. WE CAN'T HEAR YOU. GIMME ONE SECOND. ACTUALLY, I HAVE A MESSAGE ON MY SCREEN. DID YOU SEE THAT? I FEEL LIKE, CAN CAN I ANSWER WHAT I THINK WAS THIS QUESTION? OKAY. YEAH. COMMISSIONER HAD ISSUE. CAN YOU TRY SPEAKING AGAIN? YEAH, WE CAN COME BACK. YEAH. CAN YOU TRY AND MUTING, I I THINK IT'S SOMETHING ELSE. I GOT A WEIRD MESSAGE ON MY SCREEN, UM, WHEN IT CUT OFF. SO WE WILL TRY TO TROUBLESHOOT AND THEN WE CAN CONTINUE WITH QUESTIONS. GOTCHA. SO I CAN LET YOU CALL ON CERTAIN ANSWER. I MEAN, QUICK, BRIEFLY PLEASE. BECAUSE I HAVE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS. [02:00:02] I THINK WHERE HE WAS HEADED WAS ON A, THAT 1.362 MILLION SEEMED LIKE NOT A LOT OF MONEY. AND SO I WOULD POINT TO THE FACT THAT BILLING'S ABOUT 3000 SQUARE FEET. SO IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN THE PER SQUARE FOOT, THAT'S WHERE IT PROBABLY ANSWERS THIS QUESTION. AND SECONDLY, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET THAT PARKING GARAGE. THE GEOMETRY OF THAT PARKING GARAGE, WE STUDIED IT AND TRIED TO HOLD IF WE COULD HOLD THE 9 0 8. BUT THE ARC, THE ENGINEER ALSO SAID THE WAY THE WOOD TRUSSES INTERSECT THAT FACADE TO GET THE TRUSSES ON THAT SECOND FLOOR TO SUPPORT ANY BUILDING CODE LOAD REQUIRED, WE, YOU WOULD LOSE THAT FACADE. IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO RETAIN THAT FACADE AND, AND RESTORE THAT WOOD STRUCTURE. SO IT, I'M REFERRING BOTH THOSE THINGS, I THINK IS WHERE HE WAS HEADED. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION, MR. CHAIR? I HAVE QUESTIONS. I HAVE A, FOR THE APPLICANT, UM, ONE OF THE CON ONE OF THE PUBLIC MEMBERS MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT TAX CREDITS BEING USED ON THIS PARTICULAR BLOCK, UM, NOT INCLUDING THE AVANSE BUILDING, UM, WHETHER IT WAS FOR CREDIT SUBSIDIZATION OR WHATEVER FOR REPAIRS OR SECURING. UM, DID THIS PROPERTY RECEIVE ANY OR HAS TA BENEFITED FROM THAT? NO. OKAY. UM, AND THERE WAS ALSO A COMMENT ABOUT MARKETING, AND THIS IS SOMETHING I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT ALREADY MONTHS AGO, AND THAT IS THE MARKETING OF THE PROPERTIES, THE BUILDINGS IN SMALLER INCREMENTS THAT COULD BETTER ADDRESS MORE SPECIFIC PRESERVATION AND FEASIBILITY CONCERNS. WAS THAT, UH, UTILIZED? YES. WE, WE WERE WILLING TO LEASE OR SELL ONE OR ALL TOGETHER OR NOT TOGETHER. SO WE LOOKED, WE HAD PROSPECTS FOR THE RICH BOOK BUILDING PROSPECTS FOR THE 9 0 8, BUT AGAIN, THE ECONOMICS KEPT BREAKING DOWN. SO ANYBODY THAT LOOKED WALKED AWAY. SO WITH THE SIGNAGE AND THE LISTINGS, COMMERCIAL LISTINGS IN JOURNALS, WERE THOSE LISTINGS CLEAR THAT THEY WERE AVAILABLE ON A SMALLER PARCEL OR IS THAT THE KIND OF CONVERSATION THAT CAME INTO PLAY WHEN SOMEBODY WAS LOOKING AT THE LARGER PARCEL? SO MOST OF OUR MARKETING MATERIALS FOR FOR SALE OR FOR A LEASE FOR INFORMATION, PLEASE CONTACT. OKAY. SO I WOULD SAY PROBABLY NOT SUPER CLEAR ON THE MARKETING MATERIALS, BUT FAIRLY CLEAR AND FAIRLY KNOWN THAT WE WEREN'T MARKETING ALL OR NONE. THAT THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT. SOME WE JUST NEED TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND THAT'S ALL DIVE IN. OKAY. ANOTHER QUESTION. UM, SHOULD YOUR REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION BE APPROVED, WHAT WOULD YOUS, WHAT WOULD YOU SPECULATE THAT THE TIMELINE WOULD BE BEFORE NEW CONSTRUCTION BEGAN? MINIMUM IS 12 MONTHS. MINIMUM IS 12 MONTHS. IT'S PROBABLY MORE LIKE 18. IT TAKES NO LESS THAN NINE TO 12 MONTHS TO DRAW A SET OF PLANS AND GET PERMITS AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND PROBABLY MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS TO MOBILIZE AND FINANCE A PROJECT THAT WE COULD DO. OKAY. AND BASED ON THE, UM, SCHEMATIC OR THE ELEVATION WE SAW FROM 2021 AND THAT APPEARS IN THIS PACKAGE, UM, WHAT WOULD YOUR BEST ESTIMATE BE FOR THE CONSTRUCTION AND ALL, ALL CONSTRUCTION COSTS AND FINISHING FOR A PROJECT OF THAT SIZE? YOU KNOW, TODAY IT'S PROBABLY, AND WE WERE CONTEMPLATING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WORKFORCE HOUSING, SO WE'RE PROBABLY IN THE 250,000 A UNIT TO CONSTRUCT THESE DAYS. SO YOU'RE PROBABLY, IT WAS A 120 UNITS, SO IT'S PROBABLY A $50 MILLION PROJECT ALL IN. AND YOU'RE GUESSING JUST A GUESSTIMATE RIGHT NOW? REASONABLY. OKAY. THANK YOU. REASONABLE ESTIMATE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GROUP. UH, I WAS, I WAS GOING ALSO IN LINES OF, UM, I, I'M JUST TO SAY I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH LIKE, WHEN SOMEBODY WILL GO IN AND, AND TRY TO RENT SOMETHING. I MEAN EVERYBODY WILL KNOW AND HOW TO NEGOTIATE AND HOW TO SPLIT IT UP. AND CAN WE DO PARTS, BECAUSE I THINK I HEARD AT THE DRC MEETING YOU'VE LOST A TENANT IN THE OTHER BUILDING TOO, RIGHT? SO HOW MANY TENANTS DO YOU NOW HAVE? WE'RE DOWN TO ONE, ONE TENANT IN A BUILDING THAT USED TO HAVE SEVEN. AND HOW LONG HAVE THAT BEEN TRYING TO GET LEASED? IT'S BEEN A, I'D SAY IT'S BEEN A DOWNHILL SLIDE FOR THE LAST GOOD THREE TO FOUR YEARS. THANK YOU. I MEAN, AND AGAIN, IT'S TOWARDS THE ECONOMIC PRESSURE. IS THERE NO MORE QUESTIONS? I WOULD LIKE TO DO A MOTION. I HAVE A QUESTION. OKAY, SIR. UM, YOU SAID YOU TALKED TO SEVERAL OTHER, UH, ENTITIES, THE SAN ANTONIO EDUCATION AND PROSPER. UM, [02:05:01] DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH UTSA? I KNOW THAT THEY ARE DOING A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT JUST SOUTH OF THIS AREA AND, UM, I WOULD THINK THAT, WELL HAVE YOU HAD ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH UTSA? YES. HARD NO. A HARD NO. YEAH. OKAY. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE, THE TEAM OVER THERE AND WE TALKED TO 'EM ABOUT WHAT THE POSSIBILITIES COULD BE NO INTEREST. OKAY. IN FACT, THE CON THE POINTS THAT'S BEEN MADE MULTIPLE TIMES BY JAMES AND OTHERS THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS IN SUFFERING IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN WILLING TO MAKE INVESTMENT OVER THERE. I THINK WE'RE JEOPARDIZING THAT EXISTENCE OF THAT INVESTMENT OVER THERE AS IT IS. OKAY. AND THEN, UM, I GUESS ASKING AGAIN ABOUT THE ALL THE HISTORIC TAX CREDITS, ABATEMENTS, ET CETERA, LOCAL, STATE AND FEDERAL, UH, WHEN LOOKING AT THE TOTAL PROJECT, UH, THOSE AVAILABLE, UH, TAX INCENTIVES, UH, JUST SWORN ENOUGH FOR YOUR, YOUR INVESTORS? CORRECT. EVEN FOR MYSELF, IT JUST, THEY, IT, WE COULDN'T GET OVER THE HUMP. OKAY. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS? SO THIS IS COMMISSIONER, UH, COMMISSIONER ZUKA AGAIN. UH, YOU UM, WE CAN HEAR YOU AGAIN. GO AHEAD. UM, COMMISSIONER ZUKA, GO AHEAD. CERTAINLY, I, UH, I'M NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED, BUT I WAS, I COULDN'T HEAR YOU AND YOU, UH, YOU PROBABLY COULDN'T HEAR ME, BUT I HAD WONDERED WHETHER ANY HALFWAY MEASURES HA HAD BEEN CON CONSIDERED. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF WHAT I SAID WAS HEARD. UM, UH, REUSING THE, UH, SA DIE BUILDING SURROUNDING IT WITH PARKING. UH, IF IT'S GOING TO BE FOR APARTMENTS, YOU'VE GOT VIA RIGHT ACROSS THE WAY A LOT OF PEOPLE COULD POSSIBLY DO WITHOUT A CAR JUST TAKING VIA TO WORK AND COMING BACK AND, UH, USING THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHICH WILL CHANGE. UM, AND SO WHAT, WAS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR DOING SOME KIND OF HALFWAY MEASURES TO KEEP THE FACADE OF THE RICH BOOK BUILDING AND PERHAPS ALLOW THE SECOND BUILDING TO STAY AND BE USED IN PART OF THE APARTMENT BUILDING SET UP? Y YES. AND SO THE GEOMETRY OF THE DYE BUILDING DOESN'T ALLOW FOR A GARAGE TO FIT ON THE SITE. AND SO IT'S EITHER YOU FIND A WAY TO RESTORE THOSE BUILDINGS AND MAINTAIN WHAT YOU HAVE THERE, OR YOU'VE, OR YOU HAVE TO GO THIS ROUTE. SO YES, WE DID CONSIDER THAT. AND THEN I WOULD SAY WHAT PEOPLE COMMONLY REFER TO AS A FACADE ENEMY OR SAVE THE FACADE, BUT DEMO THE BUILDING IS ABSOLUTELY NOT VIABLE FOR THE RICH BOOK. IT IS NOT IN THE STATE AND CONDITION THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND THAT LEVEL OF CONSTRUCTION AROUND IT. A LOT OF THOSE FACADES, WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO ATTEMPT TO SALVAGE 'EM TO END UP EITHER FALLING, CAVING IN OR, OR FALLING APART DURING CONSTRUCTION, I THINK IT'S, IT WOULD BE DISINGENUOUS TO SAY THAT THAT COULD BE DONE. I, I THINK THE ECONOMIC HURDLES AND HARDSHIPS TO, TO THIS PROJECT ARE SO HIGH ALREADY THAT WOULD ABSOLUTELY, UH, KILL ANY PROJECT. I MEAN, CADDY CORNER TO US, THERE'S AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT THAT'S BEEN TRYING TO GET OFF THE GROUND FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER AND IT'S NOT EVEN BEEN ABLE TO MAKE AND IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT KIND OF ECONOMIC HARDSHIP LAYERED ON TOP OF IT. IT WOULD JUST KILL THE PROJECT. THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION. GO AHEAD. MY FIRST QUESTION IS, UH, IF I UNDERSTAND THE BEXAR COUNTY APPRAISAL RECORDS IN THE DOCUMENT, UH, CORRECTLY, IT RANGES, UH, SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 300,000 AND 2 MILLION ISH. DO I UNDERSTAND THAT CORRECTLY? I BELIEVE THAT'S PAGE 1 34, 1 35. YEAH, IF YOU CAN REFER ME TO IT, IT'LL HELP, BUT I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THAT INCLUDES THE AVANSE BUILDING. OKAY. OR THE HYMAN BUILDING. IF YOU REFER TO IT AS THE HYMAN BUILDING, THOSE ARE THE HIGH QUALITY, GOOD BUILDINGS FACING HYMAN STREET. SO HERE WE SEE, UH, APPRAISED VALUE 3 3 4 6 1 6 1 0. UH, AND THAT'S YOUR TAX BASE. CAN YOU FIND THE, THE ADDRESS THERE? POINT ONE TWO NINE LANE, LOOKS LIKE THAT'S 900 HOUSTON STREET. YEAH, THAT'S THE RICH BOOK. AND CAN WE GO TO THE NEXT ONE DOWN THAT BLOCK? IT'S ALL AGGREGATED [02:10:01] WITH THE HYMAN. THAT'S WHY YOU SEE THAT NUMBER. YOU SEE THAT GOES ALL THE WAY TO HYMAN STREET. SO IT'S NOT THE 9 0 8. BY ITSELF, YOU WOULD SAY 9 0 8 IS A QUARTER OF THAT VALUE. EIGHTH OF THE VALUE LAST PROBABLY, I'D SAY 10% OF THE VALUE. 'CAUSE THE HYMAN BUILDING HAS BEEN FULLY RENOVATED AND IS A GOOD HIGH QUALITY BUILDING, AND THAT OTHER IS A SHELL. THAT'S, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, UH, OR IS BASED ON THAT WE'VE GOT ROUGHLY $500,000 IN VALUE, EVEN IF IT'S LIKE THE LAND ITSELF. UM, SO WHEN YOU, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU DEMO THE BUILDING, OBVIOUSLY THE IMMEDIATE LAND VALUE IS GONNA GO UP, UH, BASED ON THAT BECAUSE YOU EITHER HAVE TO FIX THE BUILDING, RIGHT, OR YOU HAVE TO DEMO IT, MAKES THE LAND VALUE SHOOT UP AND THEN BUILD SOMETHING ON TOP OF THAT SINCE IT'S LIKE DOWNTOWN PRIMO PROPERTY. THAT'S FAIR. HOW MANY PUBLIC MEETINGS HAVE YOU HAD WITH THE COMMUNITY, UH, BEFORE YOU GOT HERE TODAY? I, YOU KNOW, WE'VE DONE I THINK THREE. I FEEL LIKE IT'S BEEN THREE NOW. I MEAN, THE STAFF CAN MAYBE HELP. WE, WE'VE DONE TWO ONSITE. WE'VE DONE, UM, ONE WHERE WE HAD A, A ONLINE DEAL. AND DO YOU KNOW THE LARGEST, LIKE, NUMBER OF PEOPLE AT ONE OF THOSE MEETINGS OR THE, THE LARGEST MEETING? 10 TO 12, I'D SAY. SO MORE SPEAKERS TODAY THAN AT YOUR LARGEST COMMUNITY MEETING? YEAH. AND I SHARED MY CELL PHONE NUMBER WITH EVERYBODY AND SAID, CALL ME, MAKE COME BACK. I'LL MEET YOU ANYTIME. UM, AND I JUST WANNA CONFIRM YOU HAVEN'T APPLIED FOR ANY OF THE HISTORIC PROPERTY GRANTS, ABATEMENTS, LIKE ANY OF THAT STUFF? WE HAVE NOT MADE FORMAL APPLICATION, THAT'S RIGHT. 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE A VIABLE PLAN TO SUBMIT ON. OKAY. UM, MY ARGUMENT IS LIKE, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, UH, HAS BEEN MET BASED ON, LIKE, YOU HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE IS IDENTIFIABLE DOLLARS OUT THERE TO HELP. UM, SO I THINK THAT THIS IS EITHER JUST LIKE A BUSINESS LOSS AND SOMEBODY ELSE TAKES THE, THE, THE, THE PROJECT ON, OR LIKE, MAYBE THE NEXT, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS STEP IS SOMETHING ALONG THOSE ABATEMENTS AND STUFF. BUT I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'VE MET THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HOLLY. HI. UM, QUESTION ON THE LAST COUPLE YEARS OF TRYING TO MARKET THE PROPERTY. SO, AND I IT WAS, IT WAS WITH, BEFORE IT WAS WITH, UH, JEREMY JESS, IT WAS WITH SOMEBODY ELSE. UM, WHAT, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO-ISH? YEAH. JLL FIRST AND THEN THE JEREMY JESSOP SECOND. SO JLL. CAN YOU JUST SORT OF TALK ABOUT, UM, THE MARKETING EFFORTS AT THAT TIME, UM, AND, AND HOW THEY WENT UP UNTIL YOU DECIDED TO MOVE ON TO JESSUP? YEAH, SO THEY, THEY WERE ABLE TO GENERATE SOME, SOME LEASING INTEREST, BUT MOSTLY WITHIN THE HYMAN BUILDING. THEY GENERATED NO PROSPECTS AT ALL FOR THE RICH BOOK OR THE 9 0 8 BUILDING. AND JEREMY'S KNOWN AS A DOWNTOWN. IT'S MUCH MORE INTEGRATED INTO DOWNTOWN AREA AND HAS, SO WE THOUGHT WE WOULD CHANGE BROKERS AND GIVE IT A TRY. THE BROKER WHO HAD MAYBE BETTER RELATIONSHIPS IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. BUT WHAT WE SAID WAS, YOU CAN'T WAIT FOR THE PHONE TO RING. YOU HAVE TO MAKE PHONE CALLS. YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, REALLY REACH OUT TO PEOPLE. AND, AND JEREMY WAS WILLING TO DO THAT. AND JLL RUNS A MORE TRADITIONAL MARKETING PROGRAM. AND, AND, UH, IT'S OUT THERE, IT'S AVAILABLE, IT'S IN KNOWN RESOURCES FOR PEOPLE, BUT, AND SIGNS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, AND YOU CAN CALL THEM, BUT I THINK THEY WERE NOT AS AGGRESSIVE AS WE WERE LOOKING FOR. SO THAT'S WHEN WE WENT TO JEREMY JESSOP AND, AND THEY PUSHED HARD ON IT. AND COULD YOU PUT A NUMBER ON HOW MANY INDIVIDUALS OR ENTITIES YOU ENGAGED WITH, WITH JLL WHO PASSED? GOSH, MAN, I'D BE GOING BACK INTO MY MEMORY BANKS HERE. I, I I, BETWEEN FIVE AND 10 PROSPECTS AND, AND REALLY WITH JESSUP, SAME QUESTION. I MEAN, WE HAD THE, AND THE REASON I'M ASKING IS WE SAW THE LETTER FROM, UH, PROSPER WEST AND, UH, AND, AND THE OTHER LETTER AND, AND CATEGORIZING THAT THEY, IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THEM. AND, AND WHAT I'M WONDERING IS HOW MANY VERSIONS OF THAT HAVE YOU ENCOUNTERED? MANY. BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T WRITE YOU A LETTER. SO, YOU KNOW, WE SOUGHT THOSE OUT WITH PEOPLE THAT GAVE IT A REALLY HARD LOOK SO THAT WE'D BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT WE, IN ORDER TO MEET THIS TEST THAT WE DID WHAT WE WERE, UH, OBLIGATED TO DO BY LAW. THANK YOU. ANY FINAL QUESTIONS [02:15:01] FOR A MOTION, MR. CHAIR? I'LL DO A MOTION. THANK YOU. UM, JUST, UH, MR. ADAM, ARE YOU AGREEING TO THE STIPULATIONS? I'M OVER HERE, YES. OKAY. UM, I'LL MOVE TO APPROVE WITH, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND THAT. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? YEAH, I WOULD LIKE TO. UM, SO I MEAN, I HAVE BEEN SEEING THIS PROPERTY, UM, PROBABLY SINCE 2020 OR MAYBE EVEN BEFORE WE WERE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT PHYSICALLY ALSO BEING OUT THERE AND, UM, AND SOME DRC MEETINGS, UM, I, I, IT'S NOT NO DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BUILDING BEING CULTURALLY SIGNIFICANT, BEING THE WEST SIDE, BEING, YOU KNOW, THAT. BUT I MEAN, IT IS, AND I HAVE SEEN IN MANY YEARS ON MY BOARD HERE, I MEAN, THIS IS A CLEAR ECONOMIC HARDSHIP. AND, AND I THINK IF KEEPING IT WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF WHAT'S PRESENTED TODAY, WHICH IS ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, I, I MEAN, JUST WITH WHAT'S BEEN PRESENTING AND ALSO WITH WHAT I'VE BEEN LIVING MYSELF LOOKING AT THIS PROPERTY FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS THROUGH THIS BOARD, I MEAN, I, I DO THINK THAT YOU STAFF HAS A RIGHT AND, AND I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS NOW MADE THAT CASE. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION. I GO AHEAD. NEXT, IF NOBODY'S, GO AHEAD, MR. MR. CHAIR. UH, UH, I, I WON'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS, UH, MOTION, BUT, UH, I WANNA EXPLAIN WHY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE EVIDENCE BEFORE US IS CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ARE DIRECT RESULT OF THE INCREASED, UH, POVERTY IN SAN ANTONIO. IT WAS JUST TWO WEEKS AGO. THERE'S REPORT SAYING THAT 250,000 PEOPLE, UH, ARE LIVING BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. AND THAT'S A, I THINK, A MODEST, UM, UM, AVERAGE. BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT A NEW BUILDING IS GONNA CHANGE THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, WE ALREADY KNOW FROM SAN FRANCISCO AND PHILADELPHIA AND COMMUNITIES THAT WERE THRIVING THAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF, UH, HOMELESSNESS IS NEGATIVELY AFFECTING THE DOWNTOWN AREAS. BUT THAT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE. I MEAN, IT, IT, IT COULD BE, UM, UH, POSSIBLE THAT IF THE SCOBY BUILDING IS REDEVELOPED, AND ONCE THE HOTEL IS REDEVELOPED, THAT THE AREA COMES, UH, THRIVING BACK TO LIFE. UH, AND IF WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT THE ECONOMY, UH, UH, IS REPAIRING ITSELF, THAT THE ONLY THING THAT WILL BE MISSING, UH, IF, IF, IF WE'RE AMBITIOUS WITH OUR HOPES THAT, UH, OUR TIMES GET BETTER, THE ONLY THING MISSING WILL BE THAT BUILDING. UM, THE BUILDING IS A, A A IS A PART OF A COLLECTION IN AN ENCLAVE THAT HAS BEEN, UM, UH, DEEMED, UH, PRE, UH, UM, WORTHY OF PRESERVATION OVER THE COURSE OF MANY YEARS, UH, LEADING A TREND IN, IN, UM, UM, UH, DISTRICTS AS EARLY AS AN EARLY 1980S. AND MOST DEFINITELY THOSE THAT, THAT DIDN'T JUST START SEEING THIS BUILDING WHEN IT ARRIVED TO, TO OUR, OUR OUR, UH, OUR DOCKET HERE. BUT, BUT THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN, IN, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT AREAS OF PRESERVATION WOULD KNOW THAT, UH, BEGINNING WITH THE RESTORATION OF THE, OF THE, UH, WHAT WAS THE EMPLOYEE FEDERAL CREDIT UNION, UH, UH, IS A BUILDING THAT WAS GONNA GET TORN DOWN. THAT IT WAS RESTORED. AND THE CORNERSTONE OF THAT AREA IS KNOWN AS CATTLEMAN SQUARE. SO, UM, UH, BUT, BUT I DO WANNA MAKE VERY CLEAR THAT THE MAIN TIME, UH, THE MAIN REASON YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT THE MR. CHAIR POINT OF WATER. HE DIDN'T HAVE FULL TIME. HE DIDN'T HAVE A FULL TIME. THE, UH, THE, THE MAIN REASON IS THAT, UH, IT IS, IT IS UNPRECEDENTED THAT WE WOULD ENABLE A DEMOLITION WITHOUT A REPLACEMENT PLAN LEADING THAT, UH, UH, REQUEST. AND I'LL JUST LET US NOTE THAT WE HAD A GARAGE THAT CAME BEFORE US, A COUPLE OF, YOU KNOW, TWO CASES BEFORE THIS. AND WE ARE ASKING THAT PERSON FOR A DRAWING FOR A COUPLE OF WINDOWS. THIS IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT BUILDING. AND, AND, AND SOMETHING AS WITH, WITH THE GRAVITY OF THIS REQUEST SHOULD COME WITH, UH, WHAT IS EXPECTED TO, TO REPLACE THIS BUILDING, BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE THAT, UH, UH, OR IT'S, IT IS REASONABLE TO SAY THAT AN AN ADAPTIVE REUSE IS MOST APPROPRIATE. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A SUBSTITUTE MOTION. ONE MOMENT, PLEASE. IF I CHAIR PUTER? YES, I WOULD, UH, AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ THAT, UM, I THINK TO GIVE A APPROVAL FOR DEMOLITION WITHOUT REPLACEMENT PLANS. UH, EVEN THOUGH, UH, ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS IS A DEMO PERMIT [02:20:01] WOULD NOT BE ISSUED UNTIL REPLACEMENT PLANS ARE APPROVED, I THINK IS, UH, PREMATURE. UM, I THINK THAT, UM, PLANS SHOULD BE DEVELOPED TO, UH, STUDY FURTHER WHETHER THE EXISTING FACADES AND AND STRUCTURES COULD BE INCORPORATED INTO THE NEW DEVELOPMENT. UM, AND IF THAT CANNOT BE DONE TO BE SHOWN, UM, WHY IT COULDN'T BE DONE. AND SO, UH, AS THE MOTION STANDS, I WILL NOT BE, UH, SUPPORTING IT. THANK YOU. SO, QUESTION ON THAT. WE'RE ASKING AN APPLICANT TO COME UP WITH, I MEAN, HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, MR. CHAIR POINT OF ORDER WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT'S YOUR, WHAT'S YOUR POINT OF ORDER? THE QUESTION, THE, THE POINT OF ORDER, SIR, IS THAT, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER SPEAKING UNRECOGNIZED, AND WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THAT IS VARYING FROM THE MOTION THAT WAS MADE. SO SHE WAS, SHE IS THE MAKER OF THE MOTION. SHE WAS RECOGNIZED, I RECOGNIZED HER. SO, GO AHEAD, CONTINUE. IT WAS JUST REALLY A QUESTION TO THE, I MEAN, WE'RE IN DISCUSSION NOW, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S A MOTION, AND IT'S, THAT'S KIND OF, IT IS PART OF, WE'VE, I THINK WE'VE DONE IT MANY TIMES. I JUST FEEL LIKE, OKAY, SEEING IT, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, AND WE'RE TRYING TO GO THROUGH THE NORMAL PATH OF WHAT WE ASK APPLICANTS TO DO WHEN IT'S HISTORIC HOMES, YOU KNOW, CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, WE ASK THEM TO GO GET THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP, WAIT YEARS, AND THEN WE CAN GRANT THEM DEMOLITION. BUT NOBODY WILL DEMOLISH ANYTHING, AND NOTHING IS GRANTED UNTIL THOSE REPLACEMENT PLANS HAVE BEEN. SO, I MEAN, I DON'T SEE WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN THIS CASE THAN ANY OTHER CASE THAT WE HAVE SEEN DEMOLITION WHERE WE GO BACK. BUT WE ARE AT LEAST GRANT, I MEAN, THEY HAVE TO KNOW WHAT DIRECTION TO GO AFTER FOUR YEARS. MR. CHAIR, I, UH, ONE MORE BIT. DID YOU SAY YOU HAVE SUB DEMOLITION? UM, CAN I ALLOW THE COMMISSIONER TO SPEAK AND THEN I'LL MAKE IT? OKAY. YEAH. I, I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO AGREE WITH MY, UH, WITH, UM, SOME OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HERE, WE HAVE REQUIRED MUCH MORE DETAIL ON CONSTRUCTION PLANS FOR POST DEMOLITION ON SMALLER PROJECTS, HOUSES TO INDIVIDUALS. THE AMOUNT OF DETAIL THAT HE'S PROVIDED IS JUST NOT NEARLY AS ADEQUATE. THERE'S, I MEAN, WE CAN GO DOWN THE LIST, BUT I'M SURE STAFF CAN HELP HIM WITH THAT. BUT THIS IS, THIS IS NOT, UH, SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE APPROVED IN THE PAST FOR OTHER PROJECTS. UM, AND SO I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT FOR THE APPLICANT. UH, HE'S AT A LOSS RIGHT NOW. I GET IT. TIME MITIGATES LOSS. IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY THAT IT'S NOT MY MONEY, RIGHT? UM, BUT THEN I WOULD LOOK TO THE COMMUNITY AS WELL, RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, HE'S HOLDING THE BAG, RIGHT? WHAT IS THE COMMUNITY DOING? YOU KNOW, AND AGAIN, IT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION, RIGHT? IT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION. WE ASK. WE NEED TO ASK OURSELVES, WHAT ARE WE DOING TO HELP THE ENVIRONMENT AROUND THE BUILDING, NOT THE BUILDING, NOT THAT BLOCK, BUT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? CITY, YOU KNOW, THE, SOME OF THE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE CITY. WHAT ARE WE DOING TO HELP, UH, UH, UH, SPUR SOME SORT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? YOU KNOW, MAYBE MITIGATING SOME TAX BREAKS. AGAIN, THIS IS, THESE ARE TOPICS FOR, UH, ANOTHER DISCUSSION, BUT I CANNOT SUPPORT THE MOTION AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, UM, PARTICULARLY FOR, UH, THE LACK OF CONSTRUCTION DETAILS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. MAY I CLARIFY? YES, GO AHEAD AND CLARIFY, PLEASE. MY STATEMENT THAT REPLACEMENT PLANS, UH, I ACKNOWLEDGE MY COMMISSIONER'S COMMENT ABOUT, UH, THE COST OF THOSE. UH, BUT REPLACEMENT PLANS START WITH SCHEMATIC DESIGN AND, UH, COST ESTIMATES. AND, UH, I WOULD THINK THAT AS A MINIMUM, THOSE REPLACEMENT PLANS SHOULD COME FORWARD WITH THE REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION TO SHOW WHAT'S POSSIBLE AND WHAT THE TOTAL ECONOMIC IMPACT IS. COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, SORRY TO INTERRUPT ONE MOMENT. DID YOU STILL WANNA DO A SUBSTITUTE MOTION? I DO, YES. UH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UM, THAT WE CONTINUE THIS, THAT WE PUSH IT, UH, AND, UH, REQUIRE THE, UH, THE OWNER TO COME BACK WITH THE, WITH THE SCHEMATICS, UH, THAT, UM, THAT THE COMMISSIONER JUST MENTIONED. THANK YOU. THERE A SECOND. OKAY. MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF A SECOND. COMMISSIONER HOLLAND. I JUST, I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT, THAT THERE'S A REALITY WHERE ONE MAKES A PURCHASE WITH INTENT TO MAKE A PROJECT, AND THEN IS UNABLE TO DO THAT. AND I BELIEVE WE'RE IN A SITUATION HERE. UM, THE IDEA THAT THE APPLICANT TACTICALLY DEGRADED THE BUILDING DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. AND, AND THE PURVIEW OF THE COMMISSION TODAY IS TO DECIDE WHETHER ECON ECONOMIC HARDSHIP HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED. IT'S CLEAR THAT ECONOMIC HARDSHIP HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED BECAUSE NOTHING'S [02:25:01] HAPPENED TO THE BUILDING IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS ACTIVELY MARKETED THE PROPERTY WITH MULTIPLE BROKERS AND IS DOWN TO ONE TENANT. UM, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOMETHING THERE, UH, THAT SET OUT. I WOULD BE OPEN TO SOME SORT OF A CONTINUANCE. I, I DON'T, I, I'D LOVE TO SEE, I'D LOVE TO SEE THE PROJECT MOVE FORWARD, UM, IN, IN SOME WAY. UM, I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE APPLICANT'S PROJECTS AND, UH, AND THEY'RE ALL GREAT. SO, UM, I, I HEAR MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS MOVE FORWARD. I, I WOULD BE OPEN TO SEEING THIS MOVE FORWARD. WHAT I DON'T WANNA SEE TODAY IS A DENIAL, BECAUSE THAT BUILDING WILL SIT VACANT FOREVER AND IT WILL ROT, AND NOTHING WILL EVER BE THERE. MR. CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER. I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, FIRST OF ALL SAY I REALLY APPRECIATE AND VALUE THE WORDS FROM THE PUBLIC, THE COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE LIVED IN THE AREA FOR SO LONG. I'VE LEARNED QUITE A BIT ABOUT NOT ONLY THE SITE, THE BUILDINGS, BUT ALSO THE HISTORIC, UM, RHYTHM OF THE PLACE AND ALSO WHAT YOU, UM, WHAT YOU VALUE. AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING THE TIME TO COME OUT HERE, SHARE THAT WITH THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY GONE ON TO, UM, THEIR OTHER COMMITMENTS. UH, THE OTHER THING THAT I WANTED TO COMMENT ON IS I'M LOOKING AT THAT ENTIRE AREA. ALSO. I'M LOOKING AT, OF COURSE, AT THE MERITS OF THE CASE, BUT ALSO THE CONTEXT OF THAT URBAN AREA. WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY BUILDINGS GO DOWN. UM, THERE IS A PLETHORA OF VACANT LOTS AND SURFACE PARKING, AND I DO HAVE DOUBTS THAT, UM, THIS ONE PROJECT COULD BE THE CATALYST TO CHANGE IT INSTANTLY. I THINK THIS IS A LONG HAUL, LONG, VERY CAREFUL, THOUGHTFUL HAUL. AND THAT WAS WHAT, UM, PROMPTED ME TO ASK ABOUT THE SMALLER PARCEL, INCREMENTAL SALE AND CHANGE, UM, OF THAT BLOCK. SO FOR THAT REASON, I, I AM RESERVED ABOUT THINKING THAT THIS ALL OR NOTHING, DEMOLITION AND LARGE APARTMENT WILL SAVE THAT SIDE. I ALSO VALUE THE, UM, HISTORIC CONTEXT, THE, THE SCALE AND THE MASSING AND THE VIEW AS YOU LOOK AT THE, THE TERMINAL, THE TRAIN STATION THERE, AND THE BUILDINGS. UM, ALSO SPEAKING TO THE BALANCE THAT YOUR COUNSEL, UH, MR. EDELMAN, YOUR COUNSEL MENTIONED AND REQUESTING BALANCE, AND THAT THERE BE BALANCE IN THIS CONSIDERATION. I THINK THE BALANCE COMES WHEN THERE ARE REPLACEMENT PLANS, THEN WE KNOW MORE THAN WE KNOW MORE ABOUT THE FEASIBILITY. THE BALANCE DOESN'T COME JUST ASKING FOR THE DEMO DEMOLITION. SO I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THE MOTION AS MADE. MR. CHAIR, THANK YOU. IF, IF THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER COMMENTS, I'D LIKE TO, TO ONE MORE REENGAGE, DOES ANYONE TO HAVE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT, BE BRIEF, PLEASE. WELL, MI MR. CHAIR, I WANNA, UH, COMMENT TO FELLOW, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, GALLOWAY'S, UH, UH, VERY THOUGHTFUL, UH, COMMENTS, UH, UH, THAT THAT RESULT IN, IN, UH, GIVING THE APPLICANT A PROACTIVE OPPORTUNITY. UH, BUT I, I DO THINK THAT, THAT THE TIMELINE OF THAT TYPE OF A, OF A DELAY, IT'S VERY SHORT AND CLEARLY ANY THOUGHTFUL REDEVELOPMENT PLAN WOULD TAKE TIME. SO IT SEEMS THAT THE OPTION IS EITHER THAT, UH, WE TAKE A VOTE AND THAT THERE'S A CHANCE THAT IT PASSES, OR A CHANCE THAT IT FAILS, BUT THAT THE APPLICANT ALSO HAS THE OPTION TO RESCIND THE APPLICATION. IT MAY DO MORE FOR THE OVERALL PROCESS THAT A DENIAL DOES NOT EXIST. UM, WHILE A DENIAL MAY BE, UM, UM, ADVANTAGEOUS TO, TO SOME PERSPECTIVES, UH, IF THE ADAPTIVE REUSE OR THE VERY THOUGHTFUL ADAPTIVE REUSE EXISTS, THEN A RESCINDING AND A NO DECISION MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL TO THE OVERALL RECORD OF A POSITIVE, PROACTIVE, UH, INITIATIVE TO, TO, UH, CONTINUE TO INVEST IN THE URBAN PATTERN THAT EXISTS HISTORICALLY IN THAT AREA. SO, JUST JUST TO SAY THAT, THAT, UH, WE, WHILE WE HAVE THE OPTION TO VOTE, THE APPLICANT, UH, SHOULD ALSO KNOW THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO RESCIND THE APPLICATION IF, UH, STAFF WOULD CLARIFY IF THAT'S AN OPTION. AND IF IT'S AN OPTION, WE SHOULD AT LEAST PUT THAT ON THE TABLE. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. UM, THIS IS FOR THE APPLICANT. UM, MY NEXT STEP IS I'M ABOUT TO CALL FOR A VOTE. UM, SO I WANNA SAY ASK SOMETHING. OKAY, WAYNE, BEFORE YOU. OKAY. UM, ACCORDING , DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER SAID YOU WOULD, YOU WANNA ENT YOUR APPLICATION OR YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THE VOTE? [02:30:01] THANK YOU COMMISSIONER GROUP. WELL, AND THAT WAS GOING TO BE, UM, I APPRECIATE COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ BRINGING THIS UP, UH, STAFF, WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE DENIAL? UM, IT'S A DENIAL OF REQUEST FOR A COA. AND SO THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPEAL OR THEY COULD SEEK, UM, ANOTHER ACTION BY THIS BOARD WITHIN A YEAR. OKAY. SO AT THIS MOMENT, OR LEMME REPHRASE, AFTER A YEAR'S TIME AND AN APPROVAL DOES NOT GRANT THEM ANY, ANY RIGHT TO DEMOLISH ANYTHING? THAT'S CORRECT. I MEAN, THE CODE, I MEAN, THAT JUST GIVES THEM A GREEN LIGHT TO ACTUALLY GO OUT AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I WOULD EVEN IMAGINE THAT YOU WOULD GO OUT AND HIRE SEVERAL ARCHITECTS AND SEVERAL FIRMS AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK OUT FOR PROJECTS. AND, AND I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE APPLICANT IS REALLY MOVING TOWARDS GETTING THAT GUIDANCE. I DON'T EVEN THINK ENOUGH COMMISSIONERS AND TODAY HAS EVEN, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, ARE WE LEANING TOWARDS GIVING THEM THAT? IS IT CLEAR ENOUGH THAT EVEN IF THEY WERE TO RESIGN, THAT THEY HAVE A CLEAR GUIDANCE TO WHETHER TO GO AND ENGAGE WITH ARCHITECTS? I APPRECIATE THE COMMENT FROM COMMISSIONER ERTI BECAUSE I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH IN THE MEANTIME THE COMMUNITY STILL HAS A NUMBER, STILL HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO BACK AND TRY TO, YOU KNOW, REVIVE, I AM SURE THAT HE WOULD RATHER SPEND $10 MILLION THAN $50 MILLION IF IT WAS POSSIBLE. YEAH, I JUST WANNA SPEAK TO THAT. SO, I MEAN, THE QUESTION TODAY IS FOR THE DEMOLITION AND IF APPROVED, THE APPLICANT COULD NOT WALK IN THIS BUILDING, GET A PERMIT TOMORROW, THE CODE ANTICIPATES THAT YOU WILL ALL BE REVIEWING THE REPLACEMENT AND WEIGHING THE MERITS OF THE DEMOLITION AGAINST THE REPLACEMENT. NOW, I KNOW AT SOME LEVEL YOU WANNA HAVE A GOOD COMFORT LEVEL WITH WHAT THE REPLACEMENT IS. UM, BUT THE OTHER QUESTION IS TO WHAT END? I MEAN, DESIGN DEVELOPMENT IS COSTLY, TAKES TIME AND THAT, AND SO I, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE APPLICANT WOULD PROBABLY WANT AN ANSWER ON THE DEMOLITION BEFORE THEY GO TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD ABOUT WHAT THE REPLACEMENT IS, MR. CHAIR. SO I WOULD LIKE, THINK, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR SOME CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF. I'M ABOUT TO GIVE IT. SO I THINK IF THE MESSAGE TO THE APPLICANT IS THAT YOU ARE WANTING TO SEE MORE DESIGN DEVELOPMENT IN ORDER TO FEEL COMFORTABLE TAKING ACTION, I WOULD JUST RECOMMEND, UM, KIND OF ADDING CLARITY ABOUT WHAT THAT IS. IS IT, WHAT IS FEASIBLE TO DEVELOP HERE? IS IT SCHEMATIC DESIGN? IS IT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE DESIGN DEVELOPMENT? UM, BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA BE IMPORTANT INFORMATION TO UNDERSTAND. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF A QUESTION. GO AHEAD, SIR. UH, CORY W WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE, UH, AGREEING THAT, THAT THIS WOULD DEFINE EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE OF A REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION THAT FROM HERE ON FORWARD, THAT WOULD NEVER REQUIRE THAT THERE ARE PLANS BEFORE A DEMOLITION, UH, ARRIVES TO THIS DAIS IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES? NO, IT WOULDN'T DO THAT. THANK YOU, COREY. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? YOU SAY IF, OR I, NO, WHAT IS IT? CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? EITHER, EITHER. IF YOU WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH EVERY REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION COMING BEFORE THIS DAIS WITHOUT A REPLACEMENT PLAN. SORRY, I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS POINTED AT ME. I WAS SAYING THAT THIS ACTION WOULD NOT CREATE PRECEDENT FOR OTHER CASES COMING FORWARD WITHOUT REPLACEMENT PLANS THAT ACTUALLY HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST. NO, NO, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS. I MEAN, BECAUSE THIS SEEMS TO BE COREY AS FAR AS STAFF AND SAY, I'M, I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, BECAUSE THIS SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE FURTHEST REACHES WITH RESPECT TO STAFF RECOMMENDING A DEMOLITION OF SUCH A SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF ARCHITECTURE. SO RIGHT NOW, WE'RE AT A POINT HERE WHERE WE'RE GONNA TAKE A VOTE. SO THE THING IS, IS THAT THE VOTE IS GOING TO DECIDE WHICH WAY THIS GOES FROM HERE ON OUT. SO, UM, AS COREY STATED, THIS IS NOT CREATING PRECEDENT FOR ANY OTHER CASE. AND, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE ARGUED ABOUT WHAT STAFF HAS DONE HERE VERSUS WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN OTHER CASES, BUT WE TRY TO BE AS CONSISTENT AS POSSIBLE. SO, UM, RIGHT NOW WE'RE GONNA TAKE A VOTE AND THEN WE'LL SEE WHERE THIS GOES. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CASTILLO NAY, SINO NAY, VELAZQUEZ NAY, GALLOWAY NAY, MOOKA, NAY GIDA NAY GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES, NO. HOLLAND AYE. FETZER NAY AND GIBBS NAY. MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. SO WE NEED A NEW MOTION. MAY I HAVE A NEW MOTION, PLEASE? A MOTION TO DENY THE REQUEST. [02:35:01] IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? YEAH. OH YEAH. I, I DOES THE APPLICANT, SIR, ARE YOU DONE? OH, I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. I THOUGHT YOU JUST VOTED. WE, WE DID, WE WE'RE DOING ANOTHER VOTE WHEN THE MOTION FAILS. WE NEED TO GET A NEW MOTION. UNLESS, I MEAN, UNLESS YOU DIDN'T GET WHAT YOU WANTED. BUT SEE, HERE'S THE THING, RIGHT? YOU'RE GETTING SOME ADVICE HERE. AND SO IS THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? THIS GENTLEMAN'S HOLDING THE BAG, RIGHT? HE'S HOLDING A BIG BAG. ALL RIGHT? AND THE CITY CAN CHIME IN AS WELL, RIGHT? WE'RE ALL A MARY CANS, NOT A MARY CANS, RIGHT? AND I BELIEVE THAT THIS BUILDING CAN BE SAVED, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE INPUT FROM THE CITY, FROM THE OWNER AND FROM THE COMMUNITY TO COME TOGETHER AND HELP REALIZE THE PROBLEM. NOW, THE COMMUNITY CAN'T GO UP THERE WITH BOARDS AND HAMMERS AND START FIXING THE BUILDING, RIGHT? BUT ENGAGE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? WHICH YOU, I THINK YOU ALREADY ARE, RIGHT? SO AGAIN, UH, UH, THERE'S SOMETHING TO BE LEARNED HERE INSTEAD OF JUST WALKING OUT. THANK YOU. MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. CASTILLO. AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA. AYE. GIDA. AYE. GROUP. NAY CERVANTES. YES. HOLLAND. NAY. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. OKAY, NEXT ITEM. AGENDA, ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, HDRC. CASE NUMBER 20 24 6100 NORTH MAIN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A 10 STORY HOTEL STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT LOT AT 100 NORTH MAINE, LOCATED WITHIN THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN DISTRICT, THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY DISTRICT THREE, AND THE MAINE AND MILITARY PLAZA. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AT THIS TIME. THE PROPOSED DESIGN IS GENERALLY INCONSISTENT WITH THE QUALITY AND CHARACTER OF DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO, WHILE, EXCUSE ME. WHILE THE APPLICANT HAS MADE REVISIONS TO INCORPORATE HIGHER QUALITY MATERIAL, STAFF REMAINS CONCERNED WITH THE SUBURBAN NATURE OF THE DESIGN AND ITS ORIENTATION, WHICH DOES NOT ADEQUATELY RESPOND TO MAINE PLAZA. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT FURTHER DEVELOPED THE EAST COMMERCE FACADE TO READ MORE AS A PREDOMINANT FACADE AND NOT AS A SIDE ELEVATION BASED ON THE FINDINGS. THIS INCLUDES IMPROVING THE SYMMETRY OF THE ELEVATION AND REVISING THE FENESTRATION PATTERN. STOREFRONT SYSTEMS SHOULD BE HIGH QUALITY AND FEATURE DEPTH AND SEPARATION. THE STREET LEVEL OF THIS ELEVATION SHOULD ALSO BE CLOSELY STUDIED TO RESPOND TO THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE. THIS INCLUDES THE INCORPORATION OF TRADITIONAL STREET LEVEL STOREFRONT, THE GROUND LEVEL ON EAST COMMERCE BASED ON FINDINGS M AND U2, THAT STONE, THAT THE STONE CLADDING AT THE STREET LEVEL BE REPLACED WITH A CONTINUOUS BRICK BASED ON FINDING T. ADDITIONAL AREAS OF BRICK SHOULD ALSO BE EXPLORED. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE FENESTRATION AND WINDOW OPENINGS, UH, THAT ARE MORE ACCURATE, THAT MORE ACCURATELY RELATE TO THOSE FOUND IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY, SUCH AS THOSE FOUND ON THE MUNICIPAL PLAZA. BUILDING IS NOTED IN FINDING YOU GAINED WINDOWS TO BE SEPARATED BY TRUE MULIAN COMPOSED OF MASONRY OR ANOTHER COMPATIBLE MATERIAL. FOUR. THAT ALL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED FROM VIEW WITH ARCHITECTURAL BUILDING ELEMENTS. AS NOTED IN FINDING L THIS IS TO INCLUDE ROOF LEVEL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT ALL FIRE HOOKUPS AND OTHER STREET LEVEL MECHANICAL ITEMS BE LOCATED IN A MANNER THAT DOES NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE. FIVE. THAT ALL HARDSCAPING ELEMENTS BE SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL AND BE CONSISTENT WITH THE UDC SECTION 35 6 72 AND 35 6 73 THAT ALL FU THAT ALL FUTURE OUTDOOR AND SITE FURNITURE BE CONSISTENT WITH THE UDC SECTION 35,673 I THAT A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN BE DEVELOPED AND SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION. ALL SIGNAGE SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE UDC SECTION 3 5 6 78 AND INSTALLED IN A MANNER THAT DOES NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE SCENIC QUALITY AND CHARACTER OF MAIN PLAZA. UH, AND EXISTING BELMONT STREETLIGHT POLE EXISTS ON SITE AND STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE EXISTING POLE BE REMOVED AND IF NOT REINSTALLED ON SITE RELOCATED ELSEWHERE DOWNTOWN. THERE'S ALSO A, A FINDING, OR EXCUSE ME, A COMMENT ABOUT ARCHEOLOGY, UH, PROJECT SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL LAWS, RULES AND REGULATIONS REGARDING ARCHEOLOGY. UH, THE APPLICANT'S, UH, DAVID MERRIT AND ARC KIBR ARE HERE IN PERSON AND I BELIEVE, UH, DANNY BOUNDS IS IS ONLINE VIRTUALLY, UM, COMMISSIONERS, I DO HAVE, UH, AN UPDATED PRESENTATION THAT THE APPLICANT WILL TALK THROUGH. UM, AND SO I CAN PULL THAT UP NOW. PLEASE COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF. GOOD EVENING. UH, MY NAME IS, UH, DAVE MERRITT. I'M, UH, BASED IN AUSTIN, BUT HAVE A STRONG FAMILIARITY WITH, UH, WITH THIS GROUP. I'VE TAKEN THREE OTHER HOTELS THROUGH THE PROCESS [02:40:01] HERE, UH, ALL WITHIN TWO BLOCKS OF THIS LOCATION. AND, UH, THANK YOU GUYS FOR, UH, FOR REVIEWING THE PROJECT. AND AS, UH, EDWARD KNOWS AND THE TEAM WE'VE WORKED WITH, IT IS OUR INTENT TO FIND, UH, COMMON GROUND ON OUR DESIGN. WE'D LIKE TO DO A, UH, STRONG PROJECT AS, AS MADE, UH, EVIDENCE BEFORE. AND TODAY WE'RE GONNA LOOK FOR A LITTLE CLARITY. THAT'S OUR GOAL TODAY. ALSO, I'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE ART KIBR. HE IS OUR ARCHITECT, AS IS DANNY BOUNDS, WHO IS ON WEBCAST. THANK YOU. YES, GOOD EVENING. I'M ARTHUR KIBR WITH BGKT ARCHITECTS OUT OF HOUSTON AND MEMPHIS. DANNY IS ON, ON THE LINE FROM MEMPHIS, UM, WITH DAVE. WE'VE, WE'VE DONE, UH, BEEN BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE ON OTHER PROJECTS NEARBY, SO WE'RE EXCITED TO SHOW THIS ONE TO YOU, GET SOME FEEDBACK, UM, HAVE SOME DISCUSSION. WE'VE ASKED, UH, EDWARD AND HIS STAFF TO, TO SORT OF WALK US THROUGH THE PRESENTATION AND WE'RE HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO DOING MORE WITH YOU THIS EVENING. UH, YEAH, ART, IF YOU WANT TO, UM, WE CAN START OFF WITH THE SITE LEVEL OR WE CAN ACTUALLY START OFF WITH, UM, THE SOUTH FACADE, WHICH FACES E-COMMERCE. UM, SO I'LL GO BACK TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UH, SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION ITEM NUMBER ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT FURTHER DEVELOPED THE ECOMMERCE FACADE TO READ MORE AS A PREDOMINANT FACADE AND NOT A SIDE ELEVATION BASED ON THE FINDINGS. THIS INCLUDES IMPROVING THE SYMMETRY OF THIS ELEVATION AND REVISING THE FENESTRATION PATTERN. STOREFRONT SYSTEMS SHOULD BE HIGH QUALITY AND FEATURE DEPTH AND SEPARATION. THE STREET LEVEL AT THIS ELEVATION SHOULD ALSO BE CLOSELY STUDIED TO RESPOND TO THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE. THIS INCLUDES THE INCORPORATION OF TRADITIONAL STREET LEVEL STOREFRONT AT THE GROUND LEVEL. UH, UH, SO HERE'S A STREET LEVEL, UH, PERSPECTIVE OR RENDERING THAT THE APPLICANT'S PROVIDED. UH, SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT THE APP THAT STAFF HAS GIVEN THE APPLICANT IS, UH, WITH MAIN PLAZA BEING TO THE IMMEDIATE SOUTH OF THIS SITE. AND WITH THE FACADE FACING EAST COMMERCE, UH, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE DIRECTS AN APPLICANT TO ORIENT AND DESIGN A STRUCTURE TO FEATURE ITS PROMINENT ORIENTATION OR THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. YOU COULD SAY TO FACE THE PRIMARY STREET, UH, THE PRIMARY STREET STAFF FINDS IN THIS SITUATION IS EAST COMMERCE, UH, WITH MAIN PLAZA BEING ACROSS THE STREET. STAFF FINDS THAT THAT IS THE PROMINENT OR SHOULD BE THE PROMINENT FACADE. SO WHAT STAFF IS ESSENTIALLY RECOMMENDING IS THAT THE APPLICANT PUT MORE DESIGN EMPHASIS ON HOW THIS FACADE CAN RELATE TO MAIN PLAZA, WHETHER THAT'S THROUGH THE FENESTRATION PATTERN OR DETAILING OR MATERIALS. UM, LEADING INTO THAT, SOME OF THE STAFF'S PREVIOUS COMMENTS, UH, INCLUDED, UH, MODIFICATIONS TO THE STREET LEVEL. UH, SO THE APPLICANT HAS INCORPORATED, UM, ADDITIONAL STOREFRONT WINDOWS AT THE STREET LEVEL, UH, PREVIOUSLY, UM, AND ART, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE THE, UH, PRIOR RENDERING, BUT, UH, PREVIOUSLY THERE WERE STOREFRONT. THE STOREFRONT DID NOT EXTEND AS FAR TO THE EAST AS IT DOES ON THIS ELEVATION. UH, PREVIOUSLY COMMISSIONERS, IF YOU ATTENDED SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS, YOU MAY ALSO REMEMBER THAT THE, UH, GROUND LEVEL FEATURED A LIMESTONE FACADE. UH, STAFF RECOMMENDED TO THE APPLICANT THAT TO BETTER RELATE TO EXISTING STRUCTURES AND HISTORIC STRUCTURES IN THE VICINITY, UH, AND TO GIVE THE BUILDING A, A MORE PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY AND HUMAN SCALE QUALITY, UH, THAT BRICK BE EXTENDED ALL THE WAY TO THE STREET LEVEL. UH, AND SO THE APPLICANT HAS INCORPORATED THAT. UM, WE, UH, STAFF MET WITH THE APPLICANT PREVIOUSLY AND WE DISCUSSED HOW, UH, FENESTRATION MAY BE FURTHER DEVELOPED, UH, ON THE, THE SOUTH SIDE AND HOW MATERIALS MAY BE FURTHER DEVELOPED, UH, TO RELATE THE BUILDING A BIT MORE CLOSELY TO, UH, MAINE PLAZA. UM, SOME OF THE STAFF'S OTHER CONCERNS, UM, WHILE, UM, THE PROPERTY OR THE, THE LOT IS LOCATED WITHIN THE MAINE AND MILITARY PLAZA HISTORIC DISTRICT, THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF VERNACULAR ARCHITECTURE AND HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE IN THE VICINITY. UH, STAFF'S ASKED THE APPLICANT TO EXPLORE WAYS WHERE TRADITIONAL BUILDING ELEMENTS SUCH AS WINDOW OPENINGS, UH, WHETHER MOLDINGS AROUND WINDOW OPENINGS, WHETHER THOSE ARE S SEALS THAT ARE BRICK OR CASTSTONE OR CUT STONE, UH, CORNICES, UH, THAT THOSE BE DEVELOPED IN A WAY THAT EXPRESSES THE TRADITIONAL ELEMENT OR THE TRA TRADITIONAL FORM, UH, BUT CAN BE DONE SO IN A WAY THAT, UH, HAS A MODERN EXPRESSION TO IT. UM, AND I KNOW THAT THE APPLICANT HAS BROUGHT A FEW EXAMPLES OF IDEAS OF HOW THEY COULD POTENTIALLY, UH, INCORPORATE, UM, I DON'T WANNA SAY STREAMLINED, BUT [02:45:01] A MORE CONTEMPORARY APPROACH TO A TRADITIONAL ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT, BUT NOT LOSE THE LEVEL OF DETAIL, NOT LOSE BUILDING CAPS AND FACADE SEPARATION. UM, SOME OF THE OTHER REVISIONS PREVIOUSLY THE APPLICANT HAD PROPOSED, UM, EFIS AND THEN AN EFIS BRICK MATERIAL. UH, THE APPLICANT HAS SINCE REVISED THE MATERIAL PALETTE TO INCLUDE TRADITIONAL MODULAR BRICK, UH, AND ACTUALLY APPLIED STUCCO. UH, AND SO, UM, THERE'S NO LONGER AN APPLICATION OF EFIS. UM, SO THIS MAYBE GIVES A SUMMARY AND AN OVERVIEW OF SOME OF THE STAFF'S, UH, PRIMARY CONCERNS. UM, THERE ARE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND I THINK A VOICEMAIL, SO I CAN PLAY THOSE. AND THEN COMMISSIONERS, UH, WE CAN GET INTO DISCUSSION AND ART. AND, UH, DAVE, IF Y'ALL HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR IF YOU WANT CLARIFICATION ON STAFF COMMENTS, THEN WE CAN DO THAT AT THAT TIME. OKAY, THANK YOU. HELLO, THIS IS VINCENT MICHAEL OF THE SAN ANTONIO CONSERVATION SOCIETY, 1146 SOUTH ALAMO ON BEHALF OF PRESIDENT KATHY VIC, WE HAVE A STATEMENT REGARDING AGENDA ITEM NUMBER EIGHT 100. NORTH MAIN STATEMENT IS AS FOLLOWS, THE SOCIETY CONCURS WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN FOR THE HOTEL AT 100 MAIN STREET ON MAIN PLAZA STILL DOES NOT REACH THE LEVEL NECESSARY FOR SUCH A CENTRAL HISTORIC LOCATION IN SAN ANTONIO. THE CURRENT DESIGN WOULD LOOK AT HOME AT ANY SUBURBAN HIGHWAY INTERCHANGE. IT OFFERS NO CONCESSIONS TO ITS SITE, MERE STEPS FROM WHERE THE CITY WATER IS ESTABLISHED IN 1731. WHILE STONE IS USED FOR A PORTION OF THE LOWER LEVEL, THE PROPOSED IFIS AND STUCCO LIKE MATERIALS ARE AMONG THE CHEAPEST MATERIALS IN USE, THE FACADE DELINEATION MAKES NO REFERENCE TO PLAZA DE OR NEARBY HERITAGE STRUCTURES, RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED. AND COMMISSIONERS, I THINK THERE'S ALSO A, THAT LETTER IN YOUR PACKETS AS WELL AS A LETTER FROM CENTRO. UM, QUESTION, DO YOU HAVE ANY, DO YOU, DO YOU WANNA RESPOND? I DO, I DO. UM, AGAIN, DAVE MERRIT, UH, I HAVE HEARD THE, THE REFERENCE IN THE COMPARISON TO A SUBURBAN HIGHWAY PROPERTY, WHICH I WOULD TAKE EXCEPTION TO. THIS IS A HIGH RISE, MASONRY CONSTRUCTED HOTEL WITH HIGHER END FINISHES. AND WE HAVE A WELL REGARDED SAN ANTONIO BASED RESTAURANT AND BAKERY COMPANY WHO IS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN OUR STREET LEVEL, RIGHT AT THE HARD CORNER OF MAINE AND, UH, AND COMMERCE STREET AS WELL. SO IF YOU'RE COMPARING THAT TO A THREE STORY WOOD FRAME, UH, EFIS PRODUCT, IT'S VERY DIFFERENT. THIS IS A ENDURING HIGH QUALITY, EXPENSIVE BUILDING. THANK YOU. YEAH. AS ART KIBR AGAIN, AND I WOULD ADD TO, TO THAT, THAT THESE COMMENTS WERE MADE ON A PREVIOUS ITERATION OF THE DESIGN. SO WE HAVE MADE IMPROVEMENTS, UM, TO THE STREETSCAPE ON THE, UH, COMMERCE SIDE, UH, SINCE, SINCE THE CONSERVATION, UM, SAW THIS. SO WE'RE CONTINUING TO WORK WITH STAFF AND WE'VE, WE'VE CHANGED THE MATERIAL SINCE THAT. AND, UH, AND AS, AS DAVE WAS MENTIONING, WE HAVE ACTIVATED THE ENTIRE FAC UH, PEDESTRIAN LEVEL OF THIS PROPERTY, UNLIKE YOU WOULD DO ON A, ON A TYPICAL SUBURBAN PROJECT. SO IT'S, IT'S EXCITING THAT WE HAVE AN OWNER WHO WANTS TO PUT A, UM, AN INDEPENDENT, UM, CAFE, UH, AT, AT THE PROMINENT CORNER. AND, AND WE'RE PROVIDING ALL THE ARCHITECTURAL, UH, ELEMENTS THERE TO, TO ENHANCE THAT AND MAKE THAT AT A VERY ACTIVE FACADE. WE ALSO HAVE ACTIVE FACADE TO THE MAIN ENTRY ON, ON, UH, SOUTH MAIN AND THE, UH, THE, UH, FITNESS ROOM FOR THE HOTEL, YOU KNOW, FRONTING THE SIDEWALK. SO THERE'S A LOT OF ACTIVITY, UH, ALL AROUND THE BUILDING, WHICH MAKES IT FIT THIS URBAN SITE. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? YES, MR. CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, ASK OUR APPLICANTS, UM, WOULD YOU ALL LIKE TO GO THROUGH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ONE BY ONE? AND I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, BETTER UNDERSTAND YOUR POSITION ON THE ONE THROUGH SIX ITEMS? SURE. OKAY, SURE. FIRST ONE IS ADDRESSING THE FACADE ON EAST COMMERCE STREET. AND, UM, UH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE APPLICANT FURTHER DEVELOP THESE COMMERCE STREET FACADE. UM, THERE'S ALSO COMMUNITY, UH, FEEDBACK THAT, UM, UH, WANTS, UH, A BETTER QUALITY, UM, SOLUTION TO THAT. RIGHT? RIGHT. YES. WE, WE, UM, WE INTENDED TO, TO SHOW [02:50:01] YOU ANOTHER ITERATION OF THIS, SHOW IT TO STAFF, BUT, UM, AFTER SEEING THESE, THESE MOST RECENT, UH, UH, RENDERINGS HERE, WE NOW UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT STAFF AND WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR TO, TO, TO MAKE THIS BUILDING REALLY SPEAK WELL TO THE OTHER MUNICIPAL BUILDINGS, UH, AROUND THE PLAZA. SO WE FULLY INTEND TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND, AND MAKE THIS FACADE. WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOME GOOD IDEAS FROM STAFF. IT MIGHT ALSO MEAN SOME FUNCTIONING OR PROGRAM CHANGES. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, A NUMBER OF US HAVE COMMENTED ON, AND I'M NOT QUITE SET WITH, IS HOW THE, UH, TRASH IS BEING ADDRESSED AND WITH THE GATE AND THE ACCESS. AND THAT MIGHT REQUIRE SOME RELOCATION. UM, NUMBER TWO, THE STONE CLADDING AT THE STREET LEVEL, YOU'VE SHOWN YOUR, WITH YOUR RENDERING THAT YOU HAVE A CON, UH, CONTINUOUS BRICK, UM, RIGHT BASE MM-HMM, . UM, ALSO STAFF NOTES THAT ADDITIONAL AREAS OF BRICK SHOULD BE EXPLORED. UH, WHAT OTHER, AND, AND SO THAT GOES TO THE, THE THEME OF THE MATERIALS, THE STUCCO. I WILL SAY THE STUCCO DOESN'T SEEM TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR THAT PLACE. WE DO SEE STUCCO, UM, ON A COUPLE OF NEW, UM, PROJECTS, BUT, UM, I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT IF YOU HAVE SOME OTHER THOUGHTS ABOUT MATERIAL CHANGES? I'LL JUMP IN FIRST, UH, AS IT RELATES TO, INITIALLY WE WERE LOOKING AT STONE ON THE STREET LEVEL. MM-HMM. . AND OUR PURPOSE IN LOOKING AT STONE WAS TO REPLICATE THE FORMER HISTORIC BUILDING ON THE SITE. THAT'S WHY WE LOOKED TO, TO THE STONE INITIALLY AND THOUGHT THAT WOULD GIVE RESPECT TO THE PREVIOUS USE IN THE, IN THE BUILDING BEFORE IT, IT BURNED DOWN AS WELL AS SOME OF THE CORNICES. SO WE LOOKED AT THAT BUILDING TO SORT OF BRING, BRING SOME OF THAT INTO, INTO, INTO THIS, THIS, UH, VIEW. NOW WE WERE FINE REPLACING THE, THE, THE SORT OF PHOBIC WITH, WITH GENUINE BRICK. WE'RE FINE WITH THAT. UM, I THINK THAT THE, THE THREE STORIES OF BRICK LOOK VERY SHARP. I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A NICE LOOK. IT'S AN ELEVATED LOOK. MM-HMM. . AND WE'RE ABSOLUTELY FINE DOING THAT. AND I THINK WE'RE LOOKING AT STRATEGIC LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE BUILDING TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL, ADDITIONAL BRICK, WHICH WE WOULD BE COMFORTABLE. OKAY. SO YOU'D BE WILLING TO RETURN TO THE TABLE WITH STAFF AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER DRC TO WORK THROUGH MATERIALS. RIGHT. AND WE'VE ALREADY HAD INCREASE THE QUALITY. YEAH. AND WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS RELATIVE TO THE, TO THE TRASH RECEPTACLE AREA. WE'VE, WE'VE REDESIGNED THAT AND WE HAVE A, A NICE SHIELD AND MAYBE ART, YOU WANT TO, UH, SORT OF ELABORATE ON THAT AND WITH ONE OF THE VIEWS THAT SHOWS THE CHAIR? I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD COMMISSIONER GROUP. SO I'M, I'M TOTALLY WITH YOU. WHAT YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU OPEN, YOU, YOU'RE AGREEING TO ALL THE STIPULATIONS. I AM ACTUALLY GONNA GO ON A TANGENT HERE 'CAUSE I'M GONNA GO WITH COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. OKAY. STAFF, WE HAVE NEVER ASKED FOR SO MUCH AND NOT RECOMMENDING CONCEPTUAL, THIS IS JUST CONCEPTUAL. I MEAN, I TOTALLY AGREE THAT MANY TIMES WE HAVE GRANTED CONCEPTUAL WITH A BUNCH OF STIPULATIONS AND IT SEEMS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE WILLING, THEY'VE BEEN GOING BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN RECOMMENDING CONCEPTUAL. WELL, STAFF FINDS THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT THINGS THAT COULD BE ADDRESSED. UM, THE APPLICANTS WORKING WITH STAFF, WE'VE WORKED OUT, UM, WAYS THAT NORMALLY YOU WILL DO NOT CONCEPTUAL IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MASSING AND HEIGHT AND LIKE SOMETHING THAT REALLY WOULD AFFECT THE OVERALL PROJECT. WE'RE TALKING MATERIALS, YOU KNOW, DEPTH AND SEPARATION. WE THINK THAT THAT COMMERCE STREET FACADE IS THAT IMPORTANT. WE THINK WE'VE GOTTA GET THIS RIGHT. IT'S ON MAIN PLAZA. SO YOU'RE ASKING THE APPLICANT. SO MORE SPECIFICALLY, OKAY. GUIDANCE HERE IT SAYS THAT THE COMMERCE STREET FACADE, I'M STILL ON MY TIME COMMERCE SEAT FAC, COMMERCE STREET FACADE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT. AND YOU ARE SAYING THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO GO BACK AND KEEP WORKING WITH STAFF. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT WASTING ANYBODY'S TIME HERE. UM, SO BASICALLY IF THEY GO BACK RIGHT NOW, THEY COULD JUST SAY, HEY, WE CAN ASK FOR CONTINUANCE, GO BACK INSTEAD OF NOT GRANTING CONCEPTUAL, WE ALREADY KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND THEY ARE WILLING TO WORK MORE AND MORE. CORRECT. I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR THE APPLICANT, BUT I BELIEVE THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK AND, UM, A BIT MORE CONFIRMATION FROM THE COMMISSION, UH, ON A DIRECT PATH OR A WAY THAT THEY COULD MOVE FORWARD. UH, SO THAT WHEN THEY DO COME BACK, UM, STAFF AND COMMISSION, UM, ARE GENERALLY SATISFIED WITH THE DESIGN. THEY WOULD THEN RECEIVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND WOULD DEVELOP THEIR, UH, THEIR CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS SET. I MEAN, I THINK WE ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP RELATIVE TO AN ARCHEOLOGIST AND, AND A HANDFUL OF THOSE OTHERS PATIO FURNITURE. I'M NOT SURE WHY WE'RE HAVING THOSE DISCUSSIONS. THE, THE TOPIC THAT [02:55:01] WE'RE HAVING TODAY IS PURELY ABOUT THE, THE, THE FACADE IN FRONT OF THE PARK. AND ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS, AND WE'VE GONE, WE'VE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS AND EACH TIME WE THINK WE'VE MET THOSE REQUIREMENTS, WE'RE GIVEN A NEW LAUNDRY LIST OF ITEMS THAT WE DIDN'T HEAR BEFORE. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET SOME CLARITY SO THAT WE CAN DESIGN SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY'S EXCITED ABOUT. MR. CHAIR, THATS OUR GOAL. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ. WELL, WELL, SIR, I, I, UM, WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GRU. UH, BE, BECAUSE WE LOOK AT THIS, THE MASTER SIGNAGE PLANS NOT CONCEPTUAL AND FURNITURE OUTDOOR HAS NO PLACE ON A CONCEPTUAL, UH, RECOMMENDATION LIST. UM, SO THE PADDING, THE GETTING TO THE ENTRY, NOW THEY HAVE TWO ELEVATIONS THAT WE'VE SEEN. UM, THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE FIRST WITH THE LIMESTONE AND THIS, UH, UH, PLAZA IS THAT WE ALL KNOW THAT THE PLAZA IS NOT HISTORIC. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PLAZA DE WE TORE THAT UP, THAT DOES NOT EXIST. SO THE MISHMASH OF, OF, UM, COLLAGE OF MATERIALITY THAT IS BEING, UM, UH, RELATED TO, WITH RESPECT TO THE HISTORIC CHARACTER THAT THIS BUILDING WOULD BE COMMISSIONER'S. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, SIR? UM, YES. CAN DO A MOTION SO YOU CAN CONTINUE IF YOU WANT. I THINK I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH. WELL, OKAY. I MAKE A MOTION TO WELL, NO, WAIT, HOLD UP. SO ARE YOU WELL, I, NO, I HAVE QUESTIONS. I HAVE QUESTIONS. OKAY. SO GO AHEAD, MAKE YOUR QUESTION. UH, WERE YOU GUIDED TO, TO RESPOND TO THE PLAZA, WHICH IS THE HISTORIC, UH, SQUARE OR THE SQUARE AS IT EXISTS TODAY? WE WERE SUGGESTED TO LOOK AT THE STEP TO THE MIC. PLEASE, SIR. STEP TO THE MIC. THANK YOU. WE WERE, WE WERE SUGGESTED TO LOOK AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS A WHOLE AND MAKE A DETERMINATION, WHICH IS DIFFICULT, RIGHT? 'CAUSE THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S ALL OVER THE PLACE. RIGHT. AND I, AND I SEE THAT, THAT THAT THE, THE MOST, UH, DECIDING FACTOR THERE IS THE BUILDING THAT YOU'RE ATTACHED TO, RIGHT. THAT HAS THE RED BRICK AND RIGHT. UH, EDWARD DID, WERE THEY DIRECTED TO STUDY PLAZA DE DE AS INSPIRATION, OR WERE THEY DIRECTED TO STUDY THE PLAZA AS EXISTS AS CRITERIA? UH, AS IT EXISTS? UH, STAFF, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE TELLS AN APPLICANT TO DESIGN A BUILDING TO ADDRESS PEDESTRIAN CIRCULATION OF PRIMARY STREET. UH, AND IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, UH, THERE'S A PUBLIC PLAZA. UM, SO FROM A DESIGN REVIEW STANDPOINT, UH, IT, IT STAFF IS GUIDED TO RECOMMEND THE APPLICANT TO DESIGN THE BUILDING TOWARD THE PROMINENT PEDESTRIAN PATHWAY OR LOCATION OR PLAZA OR STREET, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE. WELL, THA THANK YOU EDWARD. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT, THAT, THAT WE ALL AGREE AND UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S NOTHING HISTORIC ABOUT MAINE PLAZA AT THIS POINT, OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S UNDERNEATH SPIRITUALLY. THAT, THAT, THAT EVERYTHING THERE AND, AND IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE AS WE ARE QUESTIONING THE APPLICANT, THE MATERIALITY THEN BECOMES AN ISSUE. AND WE HAVE TO BE AWARE THAT WE ARE NOT RELATING TO A HISTORIC CONTEXT BECAUSE EVEN SAN FERNANDO CATHEDRAL WAS PLASTERED. OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. VICE CHAIR ER, YES. UM, I WANNA THANK THE APPLICANTS FOR COMING TO SEVERAL DRCS, UH, LISTENING TO STAFF AND, UH, COMMISSIONER COMMENTS. AND I THINK THE, THE PROJECT HAS COME A LONG WAY. UH, I THINK THAT STILL NEEDS A LITTLE WORK ON THAT SOUTH FACADE TO, UH, RESPOND TO STAFF'S COMMENTS. AND, UM, I GUESS IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION. GOOD. SIR, I MOVED FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MR. CHAIR? GO AHEAD. I MEAN, IF COMMISSIONER FETZER FIRST GOOD SIR. OH. UM, SINCE THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN WILLING TO WORK WITH STAFF AND, UH, THE COMMISSION THROUGH DRCS, UM, I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT, UH, THEY'LL CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL, UM, WE GET TO A, A RESOLUTION THAT, THAT SATISFIES EVERYONE. GREAT. AND YEAH, AND THIS IS, AND THIS IS AN YOU, I THINK IT'S ENOUGH THAT YOU'VE PRESENTED FOR CONCEPTUAL, THAT MEANS, OKAY, NOW WE CAN GO INTO THE DETAILS. NOW WE CAN REALLY GET INTO THE WORK, RIGHT? THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU JUST MAKE A COUPLE OF CHANGES NEXT TIME. THIS DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. I THINK IT NEEDS A LOT OF WORK. A LOT OF WORK. I THINK STAFF'S GOT IT RIGHT. I JUST FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO GET CONCEPTUAL AND THERE NEEDS TO BE TWEAKS. AND I [03:00:01] THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT CENTRAL MENTIONED AND WHAT THE OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE VERY IMPORTANT. THIS IS GONNA BE AN IMPORTANT BUILDING TO THE REST OF DOWNTOWN, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE'RE RIGHT THERE ON MAIN PLAZA. SO ALSO TAKE SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN ALREADY DONE HERE ON THE COMMISSION, UM, ABOUT WHERE ARE YOU TAKING THE INSPIRATION? WHERE IS THE INSPIRATION IN SAN ANTONIO? CAN WE PLANT THIS IN PHILADELPHIA? DO THE SAME THING IN OTHER CITIES, OR ARE WE REALLY LOOKING AT WHERE'S THE, WHERE'S THE SAN ANTONIO? AND LIKE, TELL US THE STORY, RIGHT? AND I WASN'T EXPECTING THAT UNTIL WE'RE LOOKING AT FINAL. SO I WILL SUPPORT THE MOTION. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. YES. I WILL SUPPORT THE MOTION, UH, BECAUSE I AGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. I ALSO WILL, UH, REITERATE THE PRIORITIES THAT, THAT I HAVE HAD AS A, AS A PEDESTRIAN. AND THAT IS FOCUS, PRIORITIZE THAT PEDESTRIAN REALM. UM, AS YOU LOOK AT, UH, YOUR TRASH REMOVAL AS YOU LOOK AT YOUR DROP OFFS, YOUR VALET AREAS, TREE PLANTINGS, PLEASE PRIORITIZE IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION. UM, I'LL JUST KNOW FROM A STAFF STANDPOINT, UM, WE'VE HAD AN OPEN DIALOGUE WITH THE APPLICANT AND THE DESIGN TEAM, UM, AND THE DRC HAS AS WELL. SO STAFF WILL CONTINUE THAT. AND, UM, I'M SURE THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO RETURN TO THE DRC, UM, TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION. UM, AND THEY'VE ALREADY GOT SOME IDEAS OF HOW THEY COULD ADDRESS OUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CASTILLO? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. GALLOWAY. AYE. MOOKA. AYE. GIDA. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO, COME BACK TO A DRC OR AS MANY AS YOU, UH, FEEL YOU NEED TO, TO GET TO SOME RESOLUTION. GREAT, THANK YOU. WE'LL, THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER NINE. ITEM NINE ON THE HDRC AGENDA, CASE NUMBER 2024 DASH 7 7 3 15 WEST SUMMIT AVENUE. THE APPLICANT REQUESTS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A 306 SQUARE FOOT OPEN STUCCO CLOUD EDITION WITH FIREPLACE TO THE SIDE. PATIO STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN OPEN STUCCO CLOUD CMU EDITION WITH FIREPLACE TO THE SIDE PATIO BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH D, A RARE ADDITION OR SIDE ADDITION OR PERGOLA THAT IS SET BACK FROM THE FRONT FACADE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE AND MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW AND APPROVAL. UM, JUST AS A QUICK CASE NOTE, THE REQUEST WAS FIRST HEARD BY HDRC ON MARCH 6TH. UH, THE COMMISSION SENT IT TO DRC FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. APPLICANT WENT ON SITE WITH MEMBERS OF DRC AND STAFF AND HAS SINCE PROVIDED, UM, UPDATED PLANS THAT CONFORM TO RECOMMENDATIONS. THE NEW PLANS ARE IN THE LATE FILE FOR COMMISSIONER REVIEW AND I'LL BRING THOSE UP WITH THE CASE FILE. UM, THE APPLICANT, KURT LA HERE IN PERSON. UM, THERE'S ONE LETTER ON FILE FROM THE MONTE VISTA HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION IN SUPPORT OF THE NEW PLANS. UH, AND NO VOICEMAILS FOR THIS ONE. WELL, WHY DON'T YOU PUT THE NEW PLANS ON THE SCREEN. I MEAN, WE TALKED INTERNALLY AND WE THINK THIS MEETS STEPH'S PREVIOUS RECOMMENDATIONS. SO I WAS GONNA ASK AND I THINK CAN GO THIS FAR. THE DRC WENT REALLY WELL. I THINK WE ALL CAME TO AN AGREEMENT AND IF THEY WENT AHEAD WITH WHAT WE DISCUSSED AND WHAT THEIR IDEA, AND I THINK IT GOES WITH WHAT'S PRESENTED TODAY. IT BASICALLY GOES WITH STAFF RELATIONS. AND I'LL BE DOING A MOTION IF THERE'S NO QUESTIONS. WELL, I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, WOULD THE APPLICANT PLEASE COME UP? YES, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELVES. KURT LAER, LICENSED CONTRACTOR HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU. UH, UH YES. THANK YOU FOR MEETING WITH US AND YOUR ARCHITECT. UM, AND THE OWNERS OUT AT THE SITE, UH, APPRECIATE THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT OF THE PLANS. UH, I THINK THE, THE WOOD ROOF, UH, WOOD ROOF FRAMING, UH, ADDRESSES SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT THE COMMISSION HAD LAST TIME. UH, ONE THING THAT WE DID TALK ABOUT AT THE, UH, SIDE VISIT WAS HAVING COLUMNS, UM, AT THE, I SHOULD SAY THE HOUSE END OF THE, THE, UH, STRUCTURE. AND IN THE NEWS PLANS, I DO NOT SEE ANY COLUMNS. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE STILL POCKETING THE, THE BEAMS INTO THE EXISTING WALLS AND WONDERING HOW UH, UH, THAT HAD DEVELOPED OR NOT DEVELOPED. [03:05:02] I THOUGHT YOU WERE THERE WHEN WE WENT AROUND THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND WE WERE TRYING TO MATCH THE DETAILS, EXCUSE ME, OF THE CARPORT STRUCTURE THAT ALSO HAS THREE SIDED STUCCO FALSE COLUMNS ON THE EDGE OF THE HOUSE. WELL, IF YOU LOOK ON YOUR NEW PLAN SHEET, FIVE. OKAY. ON THE BILL BUILT IN NUMBER SIX. SO ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THERE'S AN EXISTING PERGOLA WITH, UH, FREESTANDING COLUMNS AND PY LASTERS SUPPORTING A WOOD, UH, UH, TRELLIS ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE WHERE YOUR NEW, UH, PROPOSAL IS. YOU HAVE THE COLUMNS SUPPORTING IT ON THE LEFT, BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE POCKETING INTO EXISTING, UH, PILASTER, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE, I GUESS I WAS EXPECTING ANOTHER PY LASTER THAT WOULD BE UNDERNEATH THE ROOF STRUCTURE SIMILAR TO WHAT'S UNDER THE, THE CARPORT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CARPORT, YOU HAVE THE, THE, THE WALL. SO COMMISSIONER FETZER YES, THAT WAS EXACTLY THE DISCUSSION WE HAD THAT DAY. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER THEY WERE GONNA DO WOOD OR STUCCO BY THE CHIMNEY SIDE, RIGHT? YES. AND THEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, AND I WAS ALSO SUGGESTING, BUT THEN LOOKING AT IT, IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE 'CAUSE WE WERE GOING IN, THEY'RE GOING INTO THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING. AND I GUESS IT'S BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A DRAWING. THERE'S A PICTURE. LEMME SEE. NO, WHAT I WAS, WHAT I REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT WAS HAVING COLUMNS AT THE, THE BUILDING WALL AND NOT POCKETING INTO THE EXISTING PILOTS. WELL, THEY ALREADY HAVE THOSE COLUMNS AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH ON. IT'S UM, CAN WE GO TO PICTURE NINE? I MEAN, STUCCO COLUMNS UNDERNEATH THE, UH, BUILDING SIDE OF THE ROOF WOULD THEN TELL US THAT THAT IS IN A NON-ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, WHICH IS WHAT THE ISSUE WAS. THAT IT, IT'S LOOKED, I GUESS WE HAVE TO DO A MOTION AND THEN WE CAN GO IN DISCUSSION. HAVE A MOTION PLEASE. THE COLUMNS HE'S ASKING, THERE ARE BASICALLY THERE ALREADY, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S TWO COLUMN LIKE STRUCTURES, RIGHT. WHERE THAT ROOF IS GONNA TIE INTO. RIGHT. AND WE TALKED ABOUT DOING WOOD POSTS AT ONE POINT, RIGHT. AND THEN YOU MIGHT WANT A WOOD POST BACK THERE, BUT THE CUSTOMER SAID, THE CLIENT SAID THAT THEY LIKE THE STUCCO COLUMNS AND THERE ARE STUCCO FACADE COLUMNS RIGHT THERE. WE'RE, WE'RE GOING TO BE TYING INTO JUST LIKE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? WELL, AND IF YOU DON'T MIND, I THINK IT'S JUST CLARIFICATION, SO WE CAN CONTINUE, OR I, I'LL DO A MOTION TO APPROVE AS SUBMITTED. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO JUST TO CLARIFY WITH THE APPLICANT AND, AND COMMISSIONER FITZER, SO WE ALL KNOW, WHAT I UNDERSTOOD WAS THAT YOU'RE TYING IN, AND THIS PICTURE IS REALLY HARD TO SAY, BUT ON THE INSIDE, ON THE TWO INSIDES BETWEEN THOSE TWO COLUMNS THAT ALREADY EXIST, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO THAT GIVES US THAT, YOU KNOW, TWO FEET FROM THE WALL. IT'S KIND OF LIKE ON THE INSIDE OF THOSE ALREADY EXISTING COLUMNS. SO NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, NOTHING'S GONNA BE VISIBLE, WHETHER IT WAS WOOD OR STUCCO. SO WE'RE KIND OF USING THOSE EXISTING COLUMNS AS LIKE, OKAY, THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE ON THE PATIO. AND THEN WE WERE DISCUSSING WHETHER WE WERE DOING WOOD OR STUCCO ON BY THE CHIMNEY SITE. CORRECT. I WOULD LIKE TO ADD FROM THAT SITE VISIT, ONE OF THE MAIN CONCERNS WE HAD WAS, AGAIN, WHAT DOES THIS OBJECT LOOK LIKE? IS IT ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING? IS IT PART OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING? AND BY HAVING FOUR SEPARATE COLUMNS SUPPORTING WHATEVER THAT COVERING IS, SHOWS THAT IT IS, COULD BE FREESTANDING. I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S AN ADDITION RATHER THAN PART OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. NOW YOU'RE ASKING TO STICK A, A STUCCO COLUMN NEXT TO A STUCCO COLUMN. THOUGH I DON'T SEE THOSE EDGES AS BEING STUCCO COLUMNS. IT'S JUST AN EXAGGERATED PROJECTION THAT HAPPENS TO WORK UP TO THE, UP TO THE GABLE END OF THE HOUSE. UM, I MEAN WE CAN CALL IT WHATEVER WE WANT, BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME SITUATION AS ON THE OTHER SIDE. THE ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE TWO SUPPORTING ENGAGED COLUMNS, UM, REALLY ONLY GO UP TO THE UNDERSIDE OF THE, UH, CARPORT TOP. SO IT READS, IT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT THAT ADDED VOLUME SHOULD LOOK LIKE. A COVER WITH FOUR LEGS. IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE ENGAGED, IT COULD BE FREESTANDING, BUT IT [03:10:01] SHOULD BE LEGIBLE AS A COVERING THAT HAS ITS OWN SEPARATE SUPPORT STRUCTURES. AND THAT WAS THE CRUX OF THE, UM, CONCERN. WELL WE, I HAD TWO DISCUSSIONS GOING BECAUSE STAFF SAID THEY'RE OKAY AS LONG AS IT'S AWAY FROM THE WALL. SO MY WHOLE QUESTION WAS ARE WE ASKING THEM TO MAKE IT LOOK FREE STANDING OR ARE WE ASKING THEM TO MAKE IT GO AWAY FROM THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOME, WHICH WAS THE STIPULATIONS OF STAFF. SO THAT WAS MY WHOLE QUESTION IS ARE WE SENDING THIS TO DRC BECAUSE WE WANNA MAKE IT LOOK FREESTANDING OR IS IT BECAUSE WE WANTED TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT'S BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOME BY MAKING IT PERGOLA STYLE, THEY'RE MAKING IT LOOK LIKE IT'S BEHIND THE FRONT. WE'RE NOT MAKING IT PART OF THE HOME. SO WE SATISFIED THAT WE THEN IN THE DISCUSSION IN DRC, WERE GOING BACK AND FORTH STILL HERE, THIS IS A GREAT PICTURE. ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THEY ADD MORE STUCCO TO THE WHAT'S ALREADY EXISTING? AND THAT WAS THE WHOLE DISCUSSION. I EVEN STOOD UP THERE AND SAID, OKAY, SO WE ASKING THEM TO LIKE ADD IN THIS LITTLE CORNER MORE STUCCO? WELL THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE, THE, UH, DRIVEWAY SIDE. THEY HAVE STUCCO PILASTER ADDED TO THE BUILDING TO SUPPORT THE ROOF. AND WE, I WAS REFERRING TO THAT SO WE COULD JUSTIFY THE STUCCO USE ON THE CHIMNEY SIDE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICANT PREFERRED. SO THAT WAS WHERE THE DISCUSSION WAS GOING IS WOULD OR STUCCO GIVE THEM A CHOICE. AND WE SAID WE COULD USE THE STUCCO DESIGN FROM THE GARAGE TO JUSTIFY THE STUCCO ON THE CHIMNEY SIDE. NOW ON THE WALL SIDE, ARE WE THEN ASKING THEM TO ADD ANOTHER PIECE OF STUCCO TO WHAT'S ALREADY EXISTS? I UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE CONTINUANCE AND NOT THE SAME WAY AS THE GARAGE. THE GARAGE ARE LITERALLY LIKE, BUT THEN ARE WE AT THEN I WANNA KNOW, ARE WE ASKING THEM TO ADD A PIECE OF STUCCO MORE TO THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THE PERGOLA IS SITTING ON THAT CHAIR? THE, UH, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, THE, UH, THE, THE, WE'RE WE'RE CALLING THOSE OFFSETS COLUMNS. THEY'RE NOT COLUMNS. WHAT, WHAT THEY ARE IS REALLY A FANTASTIC TALENT OF HOW YOU CAN ARTICULATE A ROOF BY ADDING OFFSETS. AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE STATEMENT THE ARCHITECTURE IS MAKING, IT'S REALLY CREATING A GRANDEUR WITH A VERY SIMPLE TRICK. SO I THINK THE CONCERN IS THAT AS AN ARCHITECTURAL STATEMENT, RIGHT, AND IT'S HISTORIC, UH, EMBODIMENT THAT THE WAY THAT IT WOULD PRESCRIBE ITS CONNECTION WOULD BE TO ARTICULATE IT IN SOME WAY. SO IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, I, I'M READING FROM, UH, COMMISSIONER FITZER, THAT, THAT IT WOULD BE AN, AN, AN ADDED PIECE OF STUCCO. UH, IT, IT WOULD BE A, A COLUMN YOU WOULD CALL IT, A COLUMN THAT IS ARTICULATED, WHETHER IT'S AN INCH OR TWO INCHES, IT GETS A LITTLE HARDER TO STUCCO THE SIDE THAT'S AN INCH AWAY. IT COULD BE A A, YOU KNOW, A A SIX BY SIX, UH, OR AN EIGHT BY EIGHT SEATER COLUMN. BUT, BUT I THINK THE ISSUE IS THAT IT SHOULD BE ARTICULATED IN SOME MANNER. IN SOME CASES THEY JUST USE A REVEAL, RIGHT? THAT IT'S CONNECTED, BUT THAT THERE'S A REVEAL SO THAT IT DOESN'T GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT IT'S ORIGINAL. AND SECONDLY, SO THAT IT DOESN'T CONSTITUTE THE KIND OF TAKING AWAY AND CREATING A COLUMN OUT OF SOMETHING THAT ISN'T A COLUMN. IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A TRICK, UH, TO CREATE A, A, A GRAND AESTHETIC, WHICH, WHICH IS, UM, SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A, A CHARACTER DEFINING ELEMENT OF THIS HOUSE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION? YES. UM, THE REASON WE SENT IT TO DRC, MY UNDERSTANDING IS TO LOOK AT THE EXISTING CONDITIONS AND TO SEE, UH, WHAT OPTIONS THERE WERE TO MAKE THIS NEW ADDITION LOOK LIKE IT'S NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL HOUSE. AND THEY'VE DONE THAT BY, UH, CHANGING IT TO A WOOD FRAME ROOF STRUCTURE, UM, SIMPLIFYING THE, THE ROOF FRAMING AND GETTING RID OF THE PARAPET. UM, AT THE TIME WHEN WE WERE ON SITE, WE TALKED ABOUT HOW IT, UH, COULD OR SHOULD BE SUPPORTED AT THE BUILDING WALL, AND, UH, WE DID DISCUSS WHETHER IT WAS WOOD COLUMNS AND, UH, THEN WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, STUCCO SUPPORTING THE, UH, WOOD BEAMS. AND, UM, THEN WE WENT AND LOOKED AT THE PERGOLA AT THE DRIVEWAY, AND THAT HAS WHATEVER WE WANT TO CALL 'EM, SHORT COLUMNS, SHORT PY, LASTERS, WHATEVER, [03:15:01] BUT SOMETHING STRUCTURAL WITH A STUCCO FINISH THAT IS SUPPORTING THE END OF THE ROOF FRAMING AGAINST THE HOUSE. AND, UH, I STILL THINK THAT THIS STRUCTURE NEEDS SOMETHING TO SUPPORT IT AGAINST THE HOUSE. IF THAT MEANS ADDING ANOTHER STUCCO PY LASTER ON TOP OF THE EXISTING PY LASTERS, UM, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP THIS PARTICULAR, UH, PROPOSAL TO READ AS A SEPARATE OR NON-ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. SO YOU WANT IT TO BE VISIBLE ON THE LEFT SIDE? YES. YES. SIMILAR TO THE DRIVEWAY SIDE. OKAY. SO MY QUESTION HERE, IF WE LOOK AGAIN FROM THE TOP, AND, AND IF WE, IF THE APPLICANT AGREES TO THAT, THEN YOU KNOW, THAT WILL BE, SO WE ARE ASKING THEM TO GO SEVEN INCHES AWAY FROM THE FRONT FACE. SO WE'RE, CAN YOU EXPLICITLY SAY, ARE WE DOING THE INSIDE CORNER, WHICH IS WHERE THEY WERE INTENDING TO ATTACH TO THE MAIN HOUSE? OR ARE WE ASKING THEM ON THE OUTSIDE CORNER? WELL, MR. CHAIR, JUST TO, TO, FOR THAT QUESTION, THE, THE, YOU REALLY WOULDN'T MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHAT DIMENSION YOU WANT. YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE CORRESPONDING DIMENSION. SO IF YOU'RE SEVEN INCHES AWAY, THEN YOU WOULD BE SEVEN INCHES AWAY BECAUSE THE HOUSE FOLLOWS AN ORDER. SO IF IT'S DONE PROPERLY, YOU'RE NOT GONNA MAKE THAT DECISION. THE HOUSE IS GONNA MAKE THAT DECISION. SO IF, IF YOU GIVE A BLANK A BLANKET DIMENSION, IT WOULD BE SEVEN INCHES BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY DECIDED THAT YOU'RE MOVING SEVEN INCHES AND YOU'RE WORKING IN THE CONTEXT OF A SQUARE, AND THEY CALL IT, UH, USE IT A REGULATING LINE. OKAY. SORRY. THE SEVEN INCHES IS WHERE THE, THE KIND OF, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? THE, ON THE PER OR THE TOP PART? THEY GO ALL THE WAY OUT. YES, JESSICA? YES, YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD MOVE SEVEN INCHES AS WELL FROM THE, IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. CAN YOU DRAW A SQUARE AGAINST THE BUILDING IN LINE WITH THE COLUMNS THAT ARE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THIS PLAN? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? BASICALLY, TAKE THE COLUMN THAT'S FREESTANDING. OKAY. I PUT IT THERE. IT'S JUST, YES. LET ME CHANGE THE COLOR. CORRECT. THAT'S IT. HELLO, MAY I SPEAK? PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF. HI, MY NAME IS AMANDA BLOMQUIST. I'M ONE OF THE DESIGNERS ON THE PROJECT. UM, THIS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE CAN WORK TOWARDS AND DO. IT WAS NOT MY UNDERSTANDING BASED ON THE ONSITE MEETING THAT THAT WAS GOING TO BE NECESSARY. UPON LOOKING AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE, UM, WE IDENTIFIED THAT THE TWO COLUMNS THAT ARE, OR I'M SORRY, COLUMNS OR WHATEVER YOU'D PREFER TO REFERENCE THEM AS SUPPORTS. SUPPORTS WERE ON THE SIDE ATTACHING TO THE HOUSE ITSELF. WERE, THERE'S NO SEPARATION THERE. SO IT IS STUCCOED ALONG WITH THE HOUSE ITSELF. SO, UM, YES, SO THE BEAMS RIGHT THERE WHERE THE TREES KIND OF COVER THE IMAGE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE. I'M SORRY, THE OTHER PHOTO YOU ALREADY HAD . YES. SO THE COLUMNS THAT YOU SEE, THE SUPPORTS THAT YOU SEE ON THE RIGHT SIDE THAT ARE ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE ARE INDEED ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE. AND WE RECOGNIZED THE SIMILARITIES IN THAT STRUCTURE AND IN THAT BUILD TO WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND IN IDENTIFYING THOSE OTHER ARCHITECTURAL SUPPORTS THAT SPAN THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING ITSELF. UM, IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I'M SORRY IF I MISUNDERSTOOD ON SITE, BUT THAT THOSE COULD ACT AS THOSE SAME TYPES OF SUPPORTS THAT WE WERE BUILDING INTO AND BASING THAT OFF OF, IF WE DO DECIDE TO BUILD AN ADDITIONAL 17 INCH SQUARE STUCCO SUPPORT OFF OF THAT, THAT CORNER'S GONNA GET REALLY, REALLY BUSY. , YOU CAN SEE WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS ON THE, UM, THE SUPPORT WALL, THE DECORATIVE SUPPORT WALL THAT SPANS THE OUTSIDE OF IT AND COVERS AND GIVES SOME PRIVACY TO THE BACKYARD, ADDING ANOTHER 17 INCH THAT HAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SETBACK, BUT NOT THAT FULL SEVEN INCHES. IT, IT, IN MY MIND, IT GETS REALLY, AGAIN, BUSY AND THERE'S A LOT MORE ANGLES AND DETAILS THAT I DON'T KNOW [03:20:01] ARE ENTIRELY NECESSARY. WELL, WHAT IT DOES IS, AGAIN, IT LETS THIS COVERED PORCH READ AS NOT ORIGINAL AS AN ADDITION. UM, BUT IT LOOKS SILLY. NO, I MEAN, I DON'T, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN THAT AS INSULTING OR ANYTHING. JUST TO, WE MEASURED, SIR, IF YOU WANNA SPEAK, PLEASE SPEAK INTO THE MIKE. WE MEASURED THE SIZE OF THE ATTACHED COLUMN ON THE CARPORT SIZE AND PROPORTIONALLY AGREED THAT WHAT WAS THERE EXISTING AGAINST THE HOUSE WOULD, WOULD MEET THAT AESTHETIC REQUIREMENT. WELL, THEN THERE WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WHAT'S SUPPORTING THE PERGOLA ON THE DRIVEWAY SIDE IS, LIKE YOU SAY, ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE, BUT IT STOPS AT THE UNDERSIDE AND SUPPORTS THE WOODS ROOF STRUCTURE. AND WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS A COLUMN OF SOME SORT STUC OVER WOOD THAT SUPPORTED THE END OF THE NEW WOODS ROOF AND NOT PENETRATING, AND THAT'S SUPPORTING THE ROOF AND NOT PENETRATING THE EXISTING STUCCO SUPPORTS PILE LESTER DECORATIVE, WHATEVER THEY ARE. UM, AND I THINK THAT A NEW COLUMN, STRUCTURAL COLUMN THAT SUPPORTS YOUR WOOD BEAM AND YOUR ROOF STRUCTURE COULD BE BUILT NEXT TO THE EXISTING HOUSE. YOU COULD DO A REVEAL BETWEEN THE NEW STUCCO AND THE EXISTING STUCCO SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TIE IN, YOU KNOW, TEAR UP THE EXISTING STUCCO AT ALL, PUT A REVEAL THERE. AND, UM, AGAIN, IT WOULD ALLOW THIS ELEMENT TO READ AS AN ADDITION. MR. CHAIR, UM, I'M WONDERING IF, IF, MIGHT THE, THE, UH, MAKER OF THE MOTION, UH, ADJUST THE MOTION TO PASS ALL ELEMENTS OTHER THAN THE ARTICULATION OF THIS CON CONNECTION AND ALLOW THE DESIGNER THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO BACK AND COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT THAT IS VERY SPECIFIC TO ARTICULATING THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO? WELL, I MEAN, IT'S A DESIGN, IT'S A DESIGN ISSUE BECAUSE I DO KNOW NOTICE TO, TO COMMISSIONER FETZER'S, UH, UM, ALSO THAT THERE'S A CURVE IN THE WALL THERE WITH A BEAUTIFUL LITTLE DETAIL. AND I WOULD BE JUST AS CONCERNED, I THINK, AS THE, THE, THE, UH, THE DESIGNER HERE WOULD BE THAT THAT MASSING OBSCURES THAT BEAUTIFUL LITTLE DETAIL. MAYBE IT'S A PIPE, MAYBE IT'S A, MAYBE IT'S A WOOD ELEMENT, BUT SOMETHING THAT, THAT, THAT SOLVES THE ONE PROBLEM, THAT IT'S NOT ORIGINAL, THEREFORE IT'S SOMEHOW EITHER ARTICULATED AWAY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF IT BEING ONE THING OR THAT IT'S A ARTICULATE WAY IN THE CONTEXT OF IT BEING TWO THINGS, A POLE AND A WALL OR A WALL ARTICULATED. UM, SO THAT EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD BE, WOULD BE APPROVED FIREPLACE, PERGOLA, EVERYTHING. AND THAT THERE'S JUST A LITTLE WORK TO MAKE IT PERFECT FOR NOT, NOT JUST WHAT YOU WANT. BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THE EASIEST THING TO DO AND THE MOST SENSIBLE THING TO DO IS TO CONNECT IT TO THE BUILDING. RIGHT. BUT IN, IN THE CONTEXT OF IT BEING A HISTORIC BUILDING, ONE OF THE RULES OF THUMB IS TO ARTICULATE IT AWAY. AND IT, AS ARBITRARY AS IT SOUNDS, IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY, UH, UH, UH, THAT'S A RULE OF THUMB. SO COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ, WE DID HAVE THE DISCUSSION, AND THAT IS WHY I AM LIKE A LITTLE BIT SURPRISED TODAY BECAUSE WE WERE EXACTLY DISCUSSING THIS. AND HE ALSO EVEN MENTIONED THAT IF HE WERE TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD ACTUALLY CUT SOME SQUARE FOOTAGE AND IT HAS A ROOF, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENCE TO THE GARAGE, WHICH IS NO ROOF. SO IT DOES CONNECT TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE. WE KNOW THAT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S A, I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE PUTTING MATERIAL, WHAT LIP OR WHATEVER, A ALL THE WAY ABOVE THE DOORS, RIGHT? THE, IF WE CAN GO TO THE PICTURE TO THE TO YES, IT'LL BE TO THE FRENCH DOORS OR WHATEVER THEY ARE YES. STANDING SEAM ROOF. SO YOU'RE GOING KIND OF, YOU'RE MAKING IT LOOK. YEAH, THE WHOLE, THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED HERE, AND MAYBE I'M GONNA KEEP THE MOTION AS IS BECAUSE THIS IS, WHETHER OR NOT IT IS BACK MAKES IT LOOK LIKE IT'S NOT PART OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. LIKE THE FIRST DESIGN WAS, THIS IS SET BACK FROM THE FRONT AND IT, AND THEN THE DISCUSSION GOES TO WHETHER IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S NOT PERMANENT OR PART OF THE HOUSE. WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S TWO DIFFERENT DISCUSSIONS. STAFF ASKED THEM TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE, YOU KNOW, SET BACK FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. THAT IS WHAT WAS ASKED FOR BY STAFF. THAT IS WHAT THE INTENTION OF THE FIRST DISCUSSION WAS IN DRC. SO [03:25:01] WE WENT BACK AND WE WERE DISCUSSING THE STUFF, AND WE DID DISCUSS WHETHER TO PUT THOSE STUCCO COLUMNS, AND THEN WE WENT BACK TO THE GARAGE ALSO REALIZING THAT THAT WOULD BE OKAY JUSTIFYING THE ONES BY THE CHIMNEY, BUT AT THE HOUSE IT JUST, IT WOULD ALSO EVEN REMOVE SQUARE FOOTAGE. WE DID HAVE THIS DISCUSSION, MR. CHAIR, MAY I GO AHEAD, ADD MY OBSERVATIONS. UM, ORIGINALLY THE BULK OF THE CONVERSATION WAS ABOUT WOOD WHEN WE FIRST TALKED ABOUT THE THINGS REQUIRED TO, UM, EXPRESS THIS AS A FREESTANDING OBJECT. AND WE START, WE TALKED ABOUT WOOD EXTENSIVELY, DIDN'T WE? AND THE CHANGE MATERIAL YES, YES. OF THE RIDGE AS A CHANGE OF MATERIAL WOULD ALSO CHANGE THE EXPRESSION TOO, AND GIVE YOU A SMALLER DIMENSION TO WORK WITH AND FREE UP THE, THE, YOU KNOW, FLOOR SPACE FROM THE, UM, ORIGINAL STUCCO COLUMNS. UM, WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO CONNECT IT TO THE HOUSE. THERE WAS A CONCERN THAT IF WE CON IF YOU CONNECTED IT DEEP INTO THE STRUCTURE OF THE HOUSE, THAT IT WOULD BE A PERPETUAL LEAKING ISSUE WITH THE STUCCO AT THAT POINT. AND THAT WAS A BENEFIT OF MOVING THE STRUCTURE AWAY. I DON'T RECALL THAT BEING DISCUSS ALL BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, PUTTING A, AND THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM TO FLASH ONE STRUCTURE INTO ANOTHER. WE TALKED, YES, WE TALKED ABOUT FLASHING IT. IT'S, IT'S A COMMON CONSTRUCTION PRACTICE. IT'S NOT A CONCERN AT ALL. IT WASN'T UNTIL LATER IN THE CONVERSATION THAT IT DEVELOPED TO TALK ABOUT THE STUCCO. AND FRANKLY, YOU CAN DO THE STUCCO, BUT IT'S A DIMENSIONAL CHANGE BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT TYPE OF MATERIAL. SO YES, IT IS MORE CHALLENGING. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I AT THIS POINT, IF YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE RESULT THAT YOU WANT WITH THE DESIGN WITH A SEPARATE, UM, SUPPORTS NEXT TO THE WALL, YOU MAY WANNA CONSIDER GOING BACK TO A WOOD COLUMN THAT WOULD, AGAIN, FREE ALL THIS, ALL THIS WAS DISCUSSED ON SITE, AND THE CLIENT WAS GIVEN THE OPTION OF WOOD OR STUCCO. THE CLIENT SAID THAT THEY PREFERRED THE STUCCO COLUMN LOOK, AND WE STARTED ADDRESSING THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE. BUT IT'S A DIMENSIONAL, WE CAN, IT CAN AFFECT THE, THE FACT THAT THESE COLUMNS EDGES ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE GO ALL THE WAY UP TO THE SECOND STORY. THEY'RE EXISTING, THEY'RE THERE ADDING ANOTHER STUCCO COLUMN IN FRONT OF THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO, THEY'RE NOT ALL IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S, ANYWAY, THEY, I'M GONNA ASK STAFF, THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT IF IT'S SET BACK FROM THE FRONT FACADE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE AND MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW AND APPROVAL. SO IF YOU AGREE WITH THE UPDATED DRAWINGS, GO WITH YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS. CAN THIS BE ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVED? I MEAN, WE'RE HERE NOW, SO I THINK WE'LL LOOK FOR AN ACTION FROM THIS BODY. CAN WE STIPULATE WHATEVER DESIGN THE LETTER FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SAYS THAT THEY AGREE WITH WHAT WAS PRESENTED. HE WAS ALSO PRESENT AT THE MEETING. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE CONFUSION. I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS SOLVED. THIS SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THREE MINUTES TO PUSH THIS THROUGH. I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT ALL. I'M SORRY FOR THE MISUNDERSTANDING, BUT WHEN I SAW THE SUPPORTS FOR THE, UH, ROOF STRUCTURE, THE PERGOLA OVER THE DRIVEWAY, THEY CAME OUT AND ENGAGED OR SUPPORTED THE ROOF STRUCTURE AND THEY WERE MOUNTED ONTO THE FACE OF THE WALL. AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THAT AND THEN DOING THIS ON THE, THIS NEW PORTION ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE HOUSE FOR THIS, WHAT I IMAGINED WAS A SIMILAR DEAL THAT YOU TAKE THE BUILDING WALL AND YOU ADD ON A SUPPORT THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE, THE, UH, ROOF BEAMS. AND THAT WAY YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO, UH, CUT INTO THE EXISTING STUCCO TO SUPPORT YOUR BEAMS. AND THEREFORE, IN THE FUTURE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, ADDITIONS, UH, TRY TO DO IS MAKE IT REVERSIBLE. UM, AND SO HAVING A, ANOTHER SUPPORT AT THE END OF THE, THE, UH, WOOD STRUCTURE, UH, ADJACENT TO THE APPOINTED, IT'S THE, THE VERTICAL PY IS THE HOUSE AS OPPOSED TO WITH THE WALL ON THE, THE GARAGE SIDE. SO I WAS ENVISIONING AFTER THAT DISCUSSION, LOOKING AT WHAT WAS ON THE GARAGE SIDE, THAT THERE WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL STUCCO ADDED TO SUPPORT, STUCCO SUPPORT TO, TO SUPPORT THE, UH, UH, YOU DON'T ROOF, YOU DON'T RECALL LOOKING AT THE FOOTPRINT OF THAT. AFTER WE WALKED AROUND AND MEASURED THE COLUMNS UNDER THE CARPORT AND THAT WE BASICALLY ESTABLISHED THAT THREE-SIDED COLUMN, THAT'S NOT A COLUMN, IT'S NOT A SUPPORT COLUMN, BUT LOOKING AT THE FOOTPRINT OF THAT, THAT, THAT WAS EXACTLY WHERE WE WANTED IT. SO, UM, FOR RIGHT NOW, SIR, WE'VE, UM, I MEAN WE WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK AND FORTH WITH THIS. SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST GONNA CALL FOR A VOTE AND THEN WE'LL WE'LL GO FROM THERE. SO DO WHAT YOU MAY VOTE MR. CHAIR, VERY QUICKLY, CAN WE, CAN THAT [03:30:01] BE A STIPULATION THAT IT JUST NOT BE ATTACHED TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE? THAT'S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PROJECT THEN THAT, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EVEN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, IF THAT'S NOT VIABLE, THEN MY MOTION STANDS AS IS MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED WITH WHAT'S THERE, WHICH WAS ALSO COMPLETELY MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE CONCLUSION OF THE DRC, WHAT WE GUIDED THEM TO, WHAT STAFF UNDERSTOOD. WELL, RACHEL'S NOT HERE TODAY, AND WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION UNDERSTOOD. I, I'M ALMOST, OH, RACHEL, YOU WERE THERE. SORRY. THEN ARE WE WRONG? AM I WRONG? I, I THINK WE SHOULD VOTE. YEAH, VOTE. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? MR. CHAIR, I WANNA MAKE ONE OBSERVATION. ROLL CALL PLEASE. CASTILLO. AYE. SINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ A PASS. GALLOWAY AYE. MOOKA AYE. GIDA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER NAY AND GIBBS? NAY. NAY. VELAZQUEZ. OKAY, NAY. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AND I'M SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 10, H-H-D-R-C, CASE NUMBER 20 24 0 9 9 6 18 BROADWAY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, PERFORM REHABILITATIVE SCOPES TO THE FRONT BROADWAY FACADE TO INCLUDE REPAIR OF STUCCO AND DECORATIVE DEVELOPMENTS AND PAINTING. THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO PROPOSED REHABILITATIVE SCOPES OF WORK TO THE SIDES AND REAR FACADES. TWO. TO REPLACE THE EXISTING NON-ORIGINAL STOREFRONT SYSTEM WITH A NEW CLAD WOOD STOREFRONT SYSTEM. THE PROPOSED STOREFRONT SYSTEM REPLACEMENT WILL INCLUDE THE REINTRODUCTION OF TRANSOM WINDOWS. THREE, REPLACE THE EXISTING GARAGE DOORS ON THE REAR FACADE WITH A NEW STOREFRONT SYSTEM. FOUR, INSTALL A NEW CANOPY BETWEEN THE PROPOSED STOREFRONT SYSTEM AND TRANSOM WINDOWS. AND FIVE, REPLACE ALL EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS WITH NEW ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT INCLUDES EXISTING WOOD TRANSOM WINDOWS ON THE REAR FACADE, AS WELL AS STEEL CASEMENT WINDOWS ON THE SIDE FACADE. UM, COMMISSIONERS, I COULD READ THE RECOMMENDATION AND TO THE RECORD, UH, BUT THE APPLICANT, UH, HAS NOTED THE STAFF THAT THEY ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH ALL OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, AND THAT THEY, UM, FOR ITEM NUMBER FIVE, STAFF WASN'T RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF WINDOW REPLACEMENT. THE APPLICANTS NOTED THAT THEY WILL REPAIR WINDOWS, AND THERE ARE A FEW SELECT WINDOWS THAT, UH, DO QUALIFY FOR REPLACEMENT. UH, IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO READ THE RECOMMENDATION, I CAN, OTHERWISE THE APPLICANT CAN NOTE THAT THEY AGREE WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, AND WE CAN KEEP GOING. MR. CHAIR, THAT BEING SAID, CAN WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION IF NO ONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS? DO YOU AGREE WITH ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS? YES. I'LL TAKE, TAKE A MOTION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED IMPROPERLY. SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. CASTILLO. AYE. SINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. GALLOWAY. AYE. MOOKA. AYE. GUDA AYE. GROUP HAS STEPPED OUT. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. UH, MR. ALONSO, I'LL BE IN TOUCH WITH YOU TOMORROW. I NUMBER 11. THANK YOU, UH, APPRECIATE IT. ITEM 11, ITEM NUMBER 11, HDRC. CASE NUMBER 20 24 116. THIS IS THE MARKET STREET BRIDGE OVER THE FLOOD CHANNEL. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO APP FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING HISTORIC BRIDGE RAILING FOUND ON THE MARKET STREET BRIDGE WITH A TC FOUR 11 RAILING. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND WHOLESALE RAILING REPLACEMENT AT THIS TIME. ALTERNATIVES TO FULL RAILING REPLACEMENT THAT ADDRESS PUBLIC SAFETY WHILE PRESERVING HISTORIC CHARACTERS SHOULD BE FULLY EXPLORED PRIOR TO APPROVAL FOR A PLACEMENT. THIS COULD INCLUDE THE INSTALLATION OF AN INBOARD TRAFFIC BARRIER SUCH AS BOLLARDS OR CURVING AT THE STREET. UM, THERE ARE, UH, STAFF, UH, FROM THE CITY'S PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT, AS WELL AS JACOB POWELL FROM UH, P DAWSON. THANK YOU. PLEASE COME UP AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF. GOOD EVENING, JAKE POWELL PIPE, DOON ENGINEERS. UH, WE'RE AT, UH, NINE 11 CENTRAL PARKWAY NORTH. UH, I DID WANNA NOTE I'M THE, UH, PROJECT MANAGER FOR THE PROJECT. THE SUB, THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING WAS, UH, SUBCONTRACTED. UH, STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING ASSOCIATES DID THAT. SO JUST CLU ON THOSE. SO THE, UM, JUST REAL BRIEFLY, UM, WANT TO TALK ABOUT, AND THIS IS THE, THE RIGHT PICTURE TO LOOK AT. UH, WE UNDERSTAND STAFF'S POSITION. UM, THE WAY THIS OCCURRED IS A FEW YEARS AGO NOW, UH, THERE WAS A WRONG WAY DRIVER. I BELIEVE IT WAS IN A POLICE CHASE OR SOMETHING, AND THAT HIT THAT RAILING, UM, AND BROKE THROUGH IT. UM, PART OF OUR, OUR SCOPE WAS TO LOOK AT THIS BRIDGE AND ANOTHER BRIDGE, UH, FOR BRIDGE RECOMMENDATIONS [03:35:01] FOR THE ENTIRE BRIDGE. SOME, SOME OF THEM WERE TO PATCH SPALLING, THINGS THAT ARE MORE MINOR LIKE THAT. UH, THIS PARTICULAR BRIDGE WAS CONSIDERED A, A, A, A SERIOUS ISSUE, UH, FOR THE RAILING. AND OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER RECOMMENDED FULL REPLACEMENT OF THE RAIL. UM, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A, UH, YOU KNOW, A HISTORIC AREA AND THAT WE DID NOT WANT JUST, UM, THE STANDARD RAILING THAT YOU MIGHT SEE ON I 35 WHERE IT FEELS LIKE YOU'RE DRIVING THROUGH BOXES. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DOING. UH, WE'RE PREPARE, UH, UH, EXCUSE ME, RECOMMENDING THE C FOUR 11, UM, WHICH IS ONE OF TECH STUTTS, UH, MORE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING RAILS. UM, SPEAKING AS AN ENGINEER, IT LOOKS GENERALLY LIKE THIS. I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE DIFFERENCES. UM, THE, UM, BUT THAT RAILING WAS PROPOSED, UM, WITH THE PLANS. UH, ONCE, UH, SINCE THE PLANS HAVE BEEN REVIEWED BY STAFF, THERE WAS A RECOMMENDATION, UH, THERE WAS QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY THIS, THE RAILING COULDN'T MATCH, BASICALLY. EXACTLY, UH, WHAT WAS THERE, UM, AND WHY IT HAD TO BE A STANDARD. UH, THE REASON FOR THAT IS THE WAY THAT RAIL STANDARDS ARE, ARE APPROVED IS THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH CRASH TESTS. UM, AND SO TO, UM, IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE A, A, A, A CUSTOM RAIL FOR WHATEVER NEED YOU SEE FIT, NOT NECESSARILY THIS ONE, UH, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A SPECIAL DESIGN FOR THAT RAIL AND TWO DIFFERENT CRASH JETS FOR THAT RAIL. ALL THAT, UH, GOES TO THE TUNE OF ABOUT $300,000. AND THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT IT WORKS. UH, THAT CAN BE DONE THROUGH, UH, TTI, THE TEXAS TRANSPORTATION INSTITUTE. SO THAT IS POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE AND, AND VERY TIME CONSUMING. UM, SO WHAT WAS, UH, SUGGESTED, AND I BELIEVE THERE'S ANOTHER, THERE'S A MORE RECENT VERSION OF THIS WHERE, UM, KIND OF A WINDOW WAS ADDED AS WELL. I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF HAS THAT. UH, WE HAD IT IN THE FIELD WHEN, WHEN WE, WHEN WE WALKED THROUGH THERE. YEAH. SORRY. WE HAVE AN OUTDATED OKAY. DIAGRAM. UM, YEAH. SO WE'VE GOT THIS. UM, SO THE, THE QUESTION WAS CAN WE, UH, CAN THE COLUMNS, UH, BE MADE TO LOOK LIKE THE COLUMNS, UH, THAT ARE IN THE FIELD? UM, AND THE ANSWER IS YES, THAT WOULD BE ALLOWABLE AS LONG AS THE THE RAIL WAS CONSTRUCTED, UM, PER THE PLANS FROM, FROM A STRUCTURAL STANDPOINT, THEN THE FACADE OF THE RAIL COULD BE OF, OF THE COLUMNS COULD BE CONSTRUCTED TO MATCH THE SHAPE, UH, IN ADDITION. SO THE, THE WINDOWS RIGHT THERE, UM, TO THE RIGHT OF THE, THE BOARD, THE PLYWOOD THAT'S HOLDING IT IN PLACE RIGHT NOW. UM, WINDOWS LIKE THAT COULD ALSO BE FRAMED IN, UM, IN PLACES IN THE, UM, THERE YOU GO. PERFECT. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, THOSE WINDOWS COULD BE FRAMED IN TO MATCH, UH, AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO, UH, RIGHT THERE TO THE, UH, TO THE RAILINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE. UH, SO THAT IS, THAT IS OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO, UH, CONSTRUCT THAT RAIL, UH, REPLACE IT FULLY. UH, THE RAIL IS NOT VERY LONG. IT'S BASICALLY AS LONG AS THE RIVERWALK IS WIDE. SO IT'S JUST, UM, A FAIRLY SHORT STRETCH. UM, THE QUESTION WAS BROUGHT UP, IS IT POSSIBLE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY TO VERIFY WHETHER OR NOT THE REST OF THE RAIL ON THAT SIDE IS SOUND? UH, AND THE SHORT ANSWER IS, UM, THE ONLY WAY FOR ANY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TO CERTIFY THAT IS TO A CRASH TEST, WHICH IS NOT POSSIBLE. AND I WOULD CONSTITUTE THAT THE CRASH TEST HAS HAPPENED ALREADY, AND THAT THAT RAIL IS, IS NOT SOUND, UH, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING AT THIS TIME IS TO CONSTRUCT THE RAIL ONLY ON THIS SIDE OF THE RIVER FIRST. AND, UH, FRANK, LET ME, YEAH, OKAY. UM, AND THERE WOULD BE MOCKUPS INVOLVED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE FINISH COULD BE, COULD BE VERIFIED FIRST, AND THEN LET THAT CONSTRUCTION HAPPEN TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS SATISFACTORY BEFORE WE MOVE TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BRIDGE. UH, THE RECOMMENDATION IS ALSO, UH, TO REPLACE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BRIDGE. THERE'S NOT BEEN CATASTROPHIC DAMAGE ON THAT SIDE YET, BUT, UM, IT WAS BUILT AT THE SAME TIME AS THIS SIDE. UM, SO OUR RECOMMENDATION, UM, YOU KNOW, AS, AS THE DESIGNER AND REPRESENTATIVE FOR, UH, THE STRUCTURAL SUB IS TO ACTUALLY GO WITH THE PLANS OF REPLACING THE ENTIRETY OF THIS RAILING, UH, ON THIS BRIDGE. AND WITH THAT, I KNOW THERE WERE QUESTIONS IN THE FIELD, UM, I'D BE GLAD TO FIELD ANY QUESTIONS. NOW, THE PICTURE, THE PICTURE FOR THE FINISH, UM, ED, UH, I THINK YOU HAVE AN OLDER ONE TOO. THIS IS THE ONE, OKAY. YES, SIR. ALL RIGHT. SO THIS IS THE MOCKUP. UH, IS THAT THE RIGHT ONE, FRANK? THAT'S THE NEW ONE. OH, THAT'S THE NEW ONE. SO THIS IS THE MOCKUP, UH, JUST OF THE COLUMN, UM, THAT, UM, THAT THE CONTRACTOR IS OUR, IS, HAS PREPARED AT THEIR YARD, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, MIMIC THE SHAPE [03:40:01] AND THE FINISH. UM, AND I KNOW THERE ARE QUE QUESTIONS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE FINISH, UH, TO TRY TO, UM, TO MIMIC WHAT'S OUT THERE AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. GO AHEAD, SIR. UH, WHEN YOU SAY MIMIC THE FINISH, DOES THAT MEAN THAT'S TO HOLLOW SOMETHING WITH METAL IN IT, OR IS IT A SOLID PIECE OF ROCK? SO THE, THE CURRENT BRIDGE, UM, CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE PHOTO OF THE BROKEN BRIDGE POLICE, SIR? ALRIGHT, SO YOU, YOU CAN'T, IT'S, YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT FROM HERE, BUT THE, THE, UH, THIS COLUMN THAT IS BUSTED, YOU CAN SEE IF, IF YOU'RE WALK UP TO IT, UM, THE TOP OF IT IS BUSTED OFF AND THERE IS LIKE LIGHTER COLORED CONCRETE THAT'S THE CORE STRUCTURAL CORE INSIDE. AND THERE WAS A FACADE, UM, AND FORGIVE ME IF I USE THE WRONG WORDS, BUT THERE WAS A, YOU KNOW, UH, A FACING PUT ON IT THAT'S NOT STRUCTURAL. SO THIS IS, THIS IS DECORATIVE AND THE STRUCTURE'S INSIDE IT WOULD BE THE SAME. IT WOULD BE DONE THE SAME WAY. SO IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE CONCRETE AND REBAR TIED INTO THE BRIDGE DECK STRUCTURALLY, AND THERE WOULD BE, UM, A FACADE TO, TO MATCH THIS AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE. AND AND WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING IS JUST THAT COLUMN AND THAT SEGMENT OF WALL THAT WAS BUSTED THROUGH? NO, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE THE ENTIRETY OF THE RAILING ON THIS SIDE OF THE BRIDGE. OKAY. SO, SO I'M, UH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE ENTIRETY HAS TO BE, SO THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. YOU MOVED, IF YOU CAN ZOOM, JUST ZOOM BACK OUT OR ACTUALLY, NO, RIGHT THERE. RIGHT. THAT'S ACTUALLY THE, A GOOD PICTURE RIGHT THERE. YOU CAN SEE, UH, RIGHT THERE, THERE IS LITTLE, MAYBE ONE REBAR. IT'S, IT'S HARD TO TELL WHAT THAT IS. THERE'S VERY LITTLE, UM, REINFORCEMENT IN THESE, THESE, UH, SPAN AREAS. UM, AND IT'S HARD TO TELL IF THERE IS REINFORCEMENT, UM, RIGHT IN THERE AS WELL. SO, UH, FROM A STRUCTURAL STANDPOINT, UM, THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WOULD, UH, CANNOT RECOMMEND THAT THE REST OF THE RAIL IS STRUCTURALLY SOUND. AND SO THE, THE, IN OUR OPINION, IT'S, IT'S UNSAFE. AND SO IF YOU WERE TO JUST REPLACE THIS PORTION, UM, STRUCTURALLY IT WOULD BE TOUGH TO DO BECAUSE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT IS INSIDE THESE OTHER COLUMNS THAT WE WOULD BE TYING INTO. UM, SO EVEN IF YOU BUILT THIS MIDDLE AREA TO, TO SPEC, NOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE TYING INTO. UM, AND SO FOR THE STRETCH OF THE, IT'S ABOUT, I WANNA SAY IT'S ABOUT 70 FEET. SO THE, THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO REPLACE, UH, THIS SIDE IN ITS ENTIRETY. UM, IF THIS WERE A VERY LONG RAIL STRETCH WHERE WE COULD, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, MORE OPPORTUNITY TO, BUT, UM, WE'RE NOT CONFIDENT IN THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THIS RAILING, UH, AT ALL. UH, EVEN THE PORTION OVER HERE THAT HASN'T BEEN HIT WA WAS THAT A WPA WALL? NO, I DON'T THINK SO. NO. THIS WAS BUILT, UH, IN THE TWENTIES, UH, WHEN THE, WHEN THIS WORK WAS DONE. MR. I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. UM, UH, OKAY. UH, SO THIS CANNOT BE A, JUST A SIMPLE REPAIR FOR THE REASONS THAT YOU'VE YES, MA'AM. POINTED OUT, UM, BECAUSE THE CONNECTION WOULD BE INCONSISTENT. UM, HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS HAPPENED IN THE PAST A HUNDRED YEARS? SO MY, THAT'S, YEAH. I'M NOT A HUNDRED YEARS OLD. I'M GETTING CLOSE . UM, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS IS KIND OF THE WORST OFFENSE AS FAR AS AN ACUTE DAMAGE TO THE RAIL THAT'S, THAT'S OCCURRED, RIGHT? TO MY KNOWLEDGE. YEAH. YEAH. SO I, THERE COULD BE SOMETHING THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF. YEAH. UM, AND THIS WAS A PRETTY, THIS IS A LOW SPEED ROAD, RIGHT? SUPPOSED TO BE. YEAH. THIS WAS A GETAWAY CAR YEAH. THAT DID THIS. SO, UM, SO I CAN UNDERSTAND POSSIBLY A REPLACEMENT, PERHAPS E EVEN FOR THE REASONS THAT YOU CITED, UM, AND HOW YOU'RE CONNECTING INTO SOME, INTO THE EXISTING MATERIAL. UM, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE ROADWAY WOULD NEED TO BE DONE. IT SEEMS EXCESSIVE BECAUSE, UM, IT IS THE ORIGINAL A HUNDRED YEAR PLUS. UNDERSTOOD. SO THE, AND THAT, THAT'S THE BRIDGE. THAT IS A, A GOOD QUESTION. AND SO THE, OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WAS ASKED TO DO A FULL ASSESSMENT OF THE BRIDGE SURE. AND CAME UP WITH, UH, A SUITE OF RECOMMENDATIONS. SOME WERE MORE CRITICAL THAN OTHERS, UHHUH. AND SO FROM THIS STANDPOINT, THE, THE MINDSET WAS THIS, THIS RAILING IS NOT SOUND. THE OTHER ONE RAILING WAS BUILT AT THE SAME TIME, AND THEREFORE IT'S, IT'S NOT SOUND. UM, SO THAT WAS THE REASONING. UH, I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS DEFINITELY THE MORE CRITICAL SIDE. IF THE OPTION WAS TO JUST DO THIS ONE NOW FOR THE TIME BEING, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE DAMAGE ISAM, THIS IS ABOUT REPAIRING THE DAMAGE, MA'AM. IT'S NOT ABOUT PREVENTING A ONCE IN A HUNDRED YEAR EPISODE. WELL, SO THIS IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE OPINION IS, IS THE BRIDGE IS SOUND STRUCTURALLY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S RAILINGS ARE SOUND AND TRAFFIC SAFE STRUCTURALLY. AND THE ENGINEERING OPINION IS THAT NEITHER RAIL ARE [03:45:01] STRUCTURALLY SOUND FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT. SO WILL ALL OF THE BRIDGES THEN BE REDONE DOWNTOWN? SO THAT IS A, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. FRANK, CAN YOU TALK TO THAT PLEASE, SIR, OR SPEAK TO THAT. HELLO? HELLO. FRANK ORTA PUBLIC WORKS. UM, SO WE ARE LOOKING AT ALL THE BRIDGES DOWNTOWN. UM, BECAUSE OF THE CHALLENGES WE'VE HAD HERE, WE ARE, UH, TRYING TO DO AND, AND INCLUDE OHP MORE IN THOSE, WE HAVE A PACKAGE OF FIVE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT HAVE SOME DAMAGE. AND, AND JUST TO CLARIFY, WHEN WE STARTED THIS, WE, WE ALWAYS TRY TO JUST PATCH UP. WE ALWAYS TRY TO FIX WHAT'S THERE. UM, THE ENGINEER SAID IT'S STRUCTURALLY SOUND AND FOR LIABILITY REASONS, WE HAD TO, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE, AT THE LARGER STRUCTURE. NOW, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, UM, WE WILL BE ADDRESSING THOSE HAND IN HAND WITH OHP TO GET THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS AND MAKING SURE THAT, UH, MOVING FORWARD, ANY TYPE OF MAINTENANCE WE TRY TO KEEP OR INCORPORATE AS MUCH AS WE CAN OF THE ORIGINAL, UH, STRUCTURE, UM, WHILE WE'RE OUT THERE AND DESIGNING, UH, ALONG WITH OUR PARTNERS, UH, LIKE P DAWSON HERE. OKAY. THANK YOU. CAN, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? THESE BRIDGES WERE DESIGNED FOR WHAT PURPOSE OR THESE, THIS, THIS, UH, RAILING HERE TO STOP WHAT? WELL, I, I CAN'T REALLY SAY. I MEAN, IT WAS THE 1920S, I WOULD SAY. I'M ASKING, I WOULD SAY THAT THE, I I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE, THE VEHICLES THAT WERE TRAVELING ON MARKET STREET WERE DIFFERENT THEN THAN THEY ARE NOW. THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. YES. SO MODEL A, MODEL T 10, 15 MILES AN HOUR. HORSES, HORSES, HORSES. RIGHT. OKAY. UH, WOULD YOU SURVIVE A 30 MILE AN HOUR IMPACT? UH, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT FOR SURE. UH, BUT WHAT I CAN SAY IS, UM, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS TO REPLACE THESE WITH SOMETHING THAT WOULD SURVIVE A 30 MILE AN HOUR IMPACT. THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS? IF NOT, MAY I HAVE A MOTION? I'LL JUST ASK ONE MORE QUESTION. SURE. CHAIR. MR. CHAIR, WITH THIS NEW UPDATED, DOES THAT MEET STAFF STIPULATIONS? SO RIGHT NOW, UM, RIGHT NOW OUR, WHAT WE'RE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE DESIGN SIDE DOES NOT MATCH THIS CURRENT STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. I WILL SAY THAT, UH, THE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE POSTED IS THAT THEY WOULD, WE WOULD MEET IN THE FIELD, UM, AND THAT HAS BEEN DONE AND WE UNDERSTAND STAFF'S POSITION AND THAT THIS IS A, UM, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT PRECEDENT A LOT TONIGHT. AND SO WE'RE NOT TRYING TO SET THE PRECEDENT OF HOW WE DO EVERYTHING THAT THE QUESTION WAS THIS BRIDGE, AND THAT'S THE SOLUTION THAT, THAT WE CAME UP WITH. SO, UM, I, I WOULD SAY THAT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING DOESN'T MATCH EXACTLY WHAT STAFF IS SAYING, BUT THAT THAT IS A VALID POSITION FOR THE REST OF THE BRIDGES IN TOWN. OH, QUESTION. UM, YOU'RE TA TALKING ABOUT THE TXDOT DESIGN, UH, WITH, UH, MODIFYING THEIR STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS LIKE THE COLUMNS WITH A NEW, UH, HISTORICALLY ACCURATE SKIN, WE WOULD NOT BE MODIFYING THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS. THAT WOULD BE NO ADDING, NO ADDING TO IT. WE WOULD BE, WE WOULD BE ADDING A DIFFERENT FACE TO THE STRUCTURAL ELEMENTS. OKAY. YES, SIR. UM, HAVE YOU LOOKED AT A SECTION OF THE RAILING TO SEE WHAT THE CAP AND THE BASE LOOK LIKE AND HOW DIFFERENT ARE THEY FROM THE T STANDARD? AND, UH, CAN IT BE MODIFIED AGAIN IF IT'S A COATING OR SOMETHING ON TOP OF THE TXDOT STRUCTURE TO REPLICATE THIS DETAILING? SO WE HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THAT EXACTLY, BUT THE, WE HAVE, UH, WE HAVE BEEN AMENABLE TO MODIFYING, UH, THE COLUMNS AND ADDING THE WINDOWS TO, TO MATCH. BUT WE HAVEN'T LOOKED AT A, AN EXACT, UH, CROSS-SECTIONAL STRUCTURE. NO, SIR. MM-HMM, , I, I CAN ADD A LITTLE BIT TO THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS A CONVERSATION IN THE YARD YESTERDAY WITH THE CONTRACTOR AND EDWARD, IF YOU WANNA GO BACK TO THAT PREVIOUS PICTURE. UM, SO I MEAN, I THINK THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THIS HAS THAT SORT OF BEVELED FOOTER. UM, SO IT'S POINTED BENEATH THE ARCHES, AND SO THE TEXT DOT RAILING IS NOT GONNA HAVE THAT. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, THEY TALKED ABOUT DOING IS ACCOMPLISHING THAT IN THE FINISH WORK. AND SO WHEN THEY COME IN, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO BUILD THAT UP A LITTLE BIT. WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. UM, THE OTHER DIFFERENCE IS JUST LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF SPACING AND BETWEEN THE ARCHES THEMSELVES. AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OUTSTANDING, AND I THINK THIS WAS ASKED ON ON SITE, WAS WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S 10 FEET OF RAILING, HOW MANY ARCHES WOULD THE NEW RAILING HAVE VERSUS HOW MANY ARE THERE NOW THAT CAN, RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. SO MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT BASICALLY WHERE THERE WERE SIX ARCHES, THERE WOULD NOW BE FIVE, UM, JUST BECAUSE OF THE DIAMETER OF, OF THE ARCHES IN THE SPACING IN BETWEEN. SO, UM, [03:50:01] THAT IS, THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, LOOKING AT THE STANDARDS VERSUS COUNTING THERE. UM, WE CAN STILL VERIFY THAT, BUT, BUT IT'S NOT THE EXACT NUMBER. I THINK IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT LESS CHAIR ASK STAFF TO PUT THAT PICTURE UP. THAT WAS THE OLD PICTURE, THE HISTORIC PHOTO. AND THEN I HAD ANOTHER QUESTION, UH, WHICH I ASKED ON SITE. UM, HAVE Y'ALL, AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE REST OF THE COMMISSIONERS, DID Y'ALL EXPLORE PUTTING A DIFFERENT TYPE OF VEHICULAR BARRIER AT THE CURB LINE AND THEN JUST REPLACING THIS, UH, TO MATCH BUT NOT BEING TEXDOT RATED? SO, UH, NO SIR, WE DID NOT, AS PART OF THE DESIGN, EXPLORE THAT. WE DID TALK ABOUT IT IN THE FIELD. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP. THE, UM, IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE YOUR VEHICULAR BARRIER BE CLOSER TO THE CURB AND NOT NECESSARILY AT THERE, NECESSARILY AT THE EDGE OF THE BRIDGE. UM, IF YOU WERE TO DO THAT, SOME STRUCTURAL, UH, ANALYSIS WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE TO LOOK AT THE WEIGHT, THE DEAD LOAD OF, OF THE NEW, UM, BARRIER, UH, VEHICULAR BARRIER. UM, THERE'S ALSO THEN QUESTION THAT WHAT IS, WHAT IS NOT RESOLVED IS WHAT LEVEL OF DESIGN THE RAILING AT THE EDGE OF THE BRIDGE WOULD BE. UM, BECAUSE IF YOU, UM, IF YOU'RE WANTING TO SOMETHING TO GO BACK EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, UM, I CAN'T CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WOULD BE ABLE TO DESIGN IT EXACTLY THAT WAY. UH, WE WOULD'VE TO REALLY VERY CLEARLY IDENTIFY WHERE THE VEHICULAR SAFETY IS, UH, WHERE THAT STRENGTH WAS. UM, ARE THOSE BOLLARDS, IF IT'S A BOLLARDS EVER GONNA BE REMOVED, I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO THAT, UH, TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE RAILING AT THE, AT, AT THE EDGE LOOK LIKE. SO, UM, NO, WE DID NOT LOOK AT THAT SPECIFICALLY. UH, IT COULD BE DONE. I CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT THAT WOULD END UP WITH A RAIL A A RAIL THAT MATCHES EXACTLY WHAT'S OUT THERE TODAY BEING PUT BACK IN PLACE. I CAN'T SAY IT WOULDN'T, BUT I CAN'T SAY EITHER WAY RIGHT NOW. IT, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS A COMMENT. IT'S, IT'S VERY, THIS PICTURE'S VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT, IT SHOWS US WHY WE WOULD THINK THAT THAT RAIL IS SPECIAL IN ANY WAY, WHY IT MEANS ANYTHING. AND YOU KNOW, YOU GO TO PRAGUE AND IF YOU GO TO CHARLES BRIDGE, IT'S THERE, IT'S BEEN THERE FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG, AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CROSS THAT BRIDGE EVERY DAY. THESE ARE WELL CONSTRUCTED BRIDGES BECAUSE THEY'RE THERE BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THEY'RE THERE AND WE WALK BY 'EM AND HIT 'EM ALL THE TIME. AND WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG, YOU, YOU SIT ON THEM AND YOU JUMP IN THE WATER OFF OF, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THESE BRIDGES VERY WELL. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE JUMP OFF THAT ONE THAT WAS VERY HIGH, BUT THE, SAY THE ONE ON COMMERCE STREET. SO ONCE THEY'RE GONE, THEY'RE GONE AND IT, IT ALMOST MAKES SENSE TO REPAIR WHAT'S BROKEN. I HAD TO ASK YOU TO ASK A QUESTION. NOT, UH, THAT A QUESTION. WELL, I MEAN, IS IS IT, UM, I MEAN, I I I DON'T NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND THE, THE IDEA THAT, THAT THIS ONE IS STRUCTURALLY UNSTABLE BECAUSE IT WAS HIT BY A CAR, THE OTHER ONE ACROSS, I MEAN, NO, SIR. WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE THE ASSESSMENT IS THAT THIS RAILING IS BROKEN, UM, AND NEEDS TO BE REPLACED. THE RECOMMENDATION IS TO REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING THAT IS, THAT HAS THE STRENGTH TO WITHSTAND, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, CRASH TESTING. AND THAT IS WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED, UH, WITH THE CLOSEST STANDARD THAT WE'VE GOT TO THAT. UM, THEN WITH SOME MODIFICATION THAT, SO THAT'S WHAT'S BEING REQUESTED NOW THAT HAS BEEN EXTRAPOLATED TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BRIDGE. UM, BECAUSE WE WERE, AS A TEAM, WE WERE TASKED WITH ASSESS THE BRIDGE. AND SO OUR TEAM'S ASSESSMENT OF THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS RAILING THAT IS NOT BROKEN IS THAT IT DOES NOT MEET STANDARD, OR IT'S LIKELY TO NOT MEET STANDARD AS WELL. SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW WE ASSESS, THAT'S HOW WE WOULD, WOULD ASSESS THAT. UM, SO IT'S NOT THAT, UH, IT'S NOT THAT THE RAILING IS, IS NO LONGER STRUCTURALLY SOUND BECAUSE IT WAS HIT WITH A CAR THAT WHAT THE CAR KIND OF ILLUSTRATED THAT THERE'S AN ISSUE. AND SO THAT'S, WE'RE KIND OF COMING AT IT FROM THE, FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF IT. AH, THAT'S, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE. ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, AND, AND IS THAT IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT BRIDGE UPSTREAM, THE, THIS DETAIL IN BETWEEN THE COLUMNS, THEY LOOK DIFFERENT. THEY LOOK, THEY LOOK THE SAME ON THAT BRIDGE, BUT THIS, THIS BRIDGE HERE, [03:55:01] OH, THIS BRIDGE HERE HAS A DIFFERENT DESIGN THAN THIS ONE. AND, UH, THERE, IT'S, AND THAT'S WHERE IT'S HARD BECAUSE IT'S, IT IS HARD. WE ADMIT THAT IT'S HARD TO APPLY A STANDARD TO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT STANDARD. UM, THANK YOU. SURE. UM, AND I, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON YOUR, ON YOUR QUESTION THERE, UM, TO BE CLEAR, UM, BOTH STRUCTURES, BOTH RAILINGS ARE, UH, COMPROMISED, BUT WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NOT HAD AN INCIDENT WITH THE OTHER ONE. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S NO REASON TO TAKE IT OUT FOR THE SAKE OF TAKING IT OUT, RIGHT. UM, BUT WE, WE DO HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT NOW. WE ARE AWARE OF IT. THIS ACCIDENT HAS BROUGHT TO LIGHT THE VULNERABILITY OF IT, AND THERE'S ALSO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT USED THE VE WALK ARE UNDERNEATH TOURISTS COME TO THIS TOWN. ALL THOSE, ALL THAT STRUCTURE IS LITTLE WOBBLY SINCE THE CRASH. UM, AND SO NOW WE'RE UM, I GUESS HAVE SOME TYPE OF, UH, OBLIGATION TO KIND OF DO SOMETHING WITH THIS SIDE, MAYBE NOT THE OTHER SIDE. UM, AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. LIKE WE, ALTHOUGH WE'RE AWARE OF IT, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TO THAT A A LOT OF OTHER BRIDGES ON THE SAME CONDITION. AND THAT'S FINE. THIS ONE HAS BEEN HIT AND BEEN, UH, HAD A ENGINE, A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER LOOK AT IT AND GIVE US A REPORT SAYING THAT IT'S COMPROMISED AND IT'S CAUSING A HAZARD. SO THIS IS WHY WE'RE ASKING YOU, YOU KNOW, TO MOVE FORWARD. TWO QUESTIONS. UM, THE CRASH RATING THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, WHAT SPEED OF CAR IS IT RATED FOR? IT WOULD BE FOR A, UM, A LOW RATE OF, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE ARE, UH, BASICALLY THE WAY TEXAS DOES IT IS FOR LOW SPEED AND HIGH SPEED. THIS IS A LOWER SPEED RAIL, WHICH IS FOR ROADS WITH, WITH, UH, SPEED LIMITS UNDER 45 MILES AN HOUR. DO WE KNOW WHAT THIS CAR WAS TRAVELING? UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT OFFHAND. WE MAY KNOW THAT, UM, THE, WE WOULD'VE TO LOOK AT THE, THE GETAWAY CAR EVEN FASTER. YEAH, IT'S TRUE. WELL, IT'S, I MEAN, THERE THERE IS A HIGHER SPEED RAIL THAT IS ALSO OF, OF A, THE SAME TYPE OF, OF, OF DESIGN, UH, AESTHETICALLY, UM, THAT COULD BE LOOKED AT. THANK YOU. HAVE A MOTION PLEASE. YEAH, I'M GONNA PUT IT OUT THERE JUST, WE, WE CAN DISCUSS IT A LITTLE MORE IF WE NEED TO, BUT, UH, I RECOMMEND APPROVAL AS PRESENTED WITH THE STIPULATION THAT COSMETICALLY, YOU PUT SOMETHING OVER EITHER, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU DECORATE OR YOU YOU PLASTER IT OVER TO LOOK EXACTLY LIKE IT IS WITH NO LESS THAN FIVE LITTLE SLITS IN EACH COLUMN. THERE A SECOND. UH, I'LL SECOND IT 'CAUSE I KNOW WE'RE GONNA GET INTO CONVERSATION, RIGHT. I DON'T THINK I UNDERSTAND THE MOTION. SO BASICALLY WHAT I'M TELLING HIM IN THE MOTION IS WHATEVER HE PUTS IN UNDERNEATH THAT CONCRETE THERE AND HIS, CAN YOU GO TO THE SAMPLE? GO TO THE SAMPLE HE'S GOT THERE, WHATEVER THEY PUT IN THERE TO MEET THE STRUCTURAL AND ENGINEERING REQUIREMENTS, AS LONG AS HE COVERS IT AND COATS IT TO LOOK LIKE THAT, AND THE REST OF THE BRIDGE LOOKS LIKE IT, IS THAT IT GET APPROVED. MY QUESTION IS ABOUT THE NO LESS THAN FIVE SLITS . WELL, BECAUSE HE SAID HE, HE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET THE FULL SIX SLITS IN THERE. WELL, HE SAID HE COULD DO FIVE. WELL, I'M WITH FIVE. WELL, LET ME EXPLAIN WHY I THINK, WELL, WHAT JAKE IS PROBABLY OUGHT TO SAY IS THE REASON THAT THE TXDOT RAILING IS RATED THE WAY IT IS, IT'S THE COMBINATION OF ITS REINFORCEMENT, BUT THEN ALSO HOW MUCH CONCRETE TO VOID. AND SO ADDING VOID IS GOING TO NOW REQUIRE US TO VERIFY THAT THAT NEW DESIGN, SO MS OKAY, LEMME CLARIFY MY, MY MY MY CAVEAT WITH THAT. YOU SEE THOSE FLIPS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT THERE? THE GENTLEMAN JUST SAID FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT IT MAY BE FIVE. CORRECT? SO, SO THE, I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M ALLOWED TO DO THIS, BUT THE, THE WAY TO, THE WAY TO GET TO THAT NUMBER WOULD BE THAT THE SPACING, THE, THE, UH, THE OPENINGS WOULD MATCH THE TDO, THE, THE SPACING OF THE OPENINGS WOULD MATCH THE TXDOT STANDARD, THE TXDOT REINFORCEMENT STANDARDS, CORRECT? YES. OKAY. NOW, MY, MY SECOND WAS STAND MR CHAIR, BUT I, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THAT THE A DA RULE, UH, WOULD HAVE TO BE APPLIED AS WELL, PROBABLY THE TEXTILE STANDARD. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FEWER OPENINGS? THE MORE CHANCE A 3-YEAR-OLD WOULD FALL THROUGH A HOLE AT THAT LEVEL. SO THERE'S SO, SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GET BY USING THE HISTORIC BRIDGE IS THAT IT'S ALREADY THERE. AND IF IT'S THERE, IT, IT'S FINE, BUT, BUT ONCE WE GET BEYOND, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S FOUR INCHES OR SIX INCHES, THEN, THEN I CAN SEE WHY. IF, IF IT HAD TO BE A FLAT PANEL AND THEN IT WAS RECESSED TO MATCH, THEN IT WOULDN'T BE A FACSIMILE OF WHAT'S THERE. IT WOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE. WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHY SOME OF THE BRIDGES THAT HAVE BEEN REPLACED DOWNTOWN HAVE INCORPORATED ART AND HAVE GONE IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT DIRECTION. THEY'VE USED LIKE, UH, HOT FIRED CLAY DESIGN. [04:00:01] SO I'M NOT SO SURE IT'S AS SAYING THAT WE HAVE AS MANY OPENINGS AS WE WANT. I THINK THAT WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS? ONCE YOU, ONCE WE ALTER IT, IT'S A NEW DEAL. IT HAS TO MEET A WHOLE NOTHER STANDARD, I WOULD THINK. YEAH, I GUESS I WOULD CLARIFY THAT THE OPENING BE NO, NO WIDER THAN WHAT THEY HAVE THERE THEN. RIGHT? BUT SEE, THAT'S THE, THE THING, JIMMY, IS THAT BY, I MEAN, COMMISSIONER JIMMY IS THAT BY, BY IT BEING A HISTORIC EXISTING STRUCTURE, IT PASSES, BUT ONCE YOU REDO IT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MEET THE STANDARDS OF TODAY. I'M NOT EVEN SURE THAT IT COULD BE AESTHETICALLY WHAT WE WOULD WANT IT TO BE, BECAUSE IT'S GONNA HAVE TO MEET THE POSSIBILITY THAT A CHILD COULD FALL IN THE HOLE. RIGHT? I UNDERSTAND THAT. SO WHAT, WHAT CAN, WHAT I CAN SAY TO THAT IS THAT THIS RAILING MEETS THE A DA STANDARDS, THE PRO THE PROPO, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING MEETS THE A DA STANDARDS. SO, SO, SO THEN THE SPACE IS WHAT'S GOING TO DETERMINE HOW MANY ARCHES YOU HAVE, RIGHT? SMALLER THE SPACE, THE MORE ARCHES, THE BIGGER THE SPACE, THE FEWER ARCHES, RIGHT? BUT IT'S ALSO THE SPACE, IT'S THE, UM, FROM THE STRUCTURAL STANDPOINT, THE, THE CONCRETE IN BETWEEN THE SPACES AND THE STEEL IN BETWEEN THE SPACES AND THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S DETERMINING IT. UH, YOU COULD, RIGHT, BUT I'M NOT SUGGESTING THIS. YOU COULD GET RID OF ALL, YOU COULD, YOU COULD FILL IN ALL THE HOLES, UH, AND IT WOULD BE THE SAME STRUCTURALLY, RIGHT? UH, WHICH I'M NOT SUGGESTING, RIGHT? BUT SEE, THE, BUT SEE, THE CLOSER, THE MORE INTEGRITY YOU'RE GONNA HAVE CLOSER SUPPORTS ANY STRUCTURAL DESIGN FURTHER IS THE PROBLEM, RIGHT? SO IF, IF WE'RE GOING TO WHAT'S EXISTING THERE, THAT HAS TO MEET THE STANDARD OF TODAY. BUT, UH, I DO APPRECIATE JIMMY'S, UH, COMMISSIONER JIMMY'S, UH, MOTION. MR. CHAIR, I DO HAVE A QUICK QUESTION. SO WE'RE DISCUSSING OBVIOUSLY THE, UH, THE, UM, OPENINGS AND THE ARCHES AND THE DETAIL. WHAT ABOUT THE HEIGHT? IS THE HEIGHT OF THE NEW REPLACEMENT BRIDGE THE SAME AS THE HEIGHT OF THE EXISTING BRIDGE BALUSTRADE? THAT, UM, I'M NOT POSITIVE. I I'M NOT POSITIVE. THE, THE COLUMNS, I BELIEVE THE COLUMNS ARE THE SAME HEIGHT, BUT I, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT HEIGHT OF THE, THE BRIDGE, UH, THE, THE RAILING THAT'S OUT THERE TODAY, THE NEW RAILING DOES MEET ALL APPLICABLE SAFETY STANDARDS. RIGHT. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, BECAUSE RARELY DO THESE HISTORIC ELEMENTS HAVE THOSE SAME PROPORTIONS. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ALWAYS KNOCK OFF SOMETHING NEW SIMPLY BECAUSE IT MEETS CODE AND VISUALLY IT LOOKS DIFFERENT. AND SO WE HAVE A MOTION IN PLAY. RIGHT. AND I DO JUST HAVE A COMMENT THAT I, I AM VERY, VERY, UH, RELUCTANT TO SUPPORT THE MOTION SIMPLY BECAUSE, UM, I DO BELIEVE IN THESE BRIDGES AND THE SETS OF BRIDGES THAT THE HISTORIC NATURE, THE MATERIAL, THE DURABILITY, THE ENDURANCE, THE AESTHETIC, EVERYTHING IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT, UM, THAN A SIMPLE STOCK REPLACEMENT. IF THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO REPRODUCE THIS ACCURATELY EXACTLY, BUT USING THE STRUCTURAL, UM, CALCS THAT YOU NEED, THEN THAT WOULD BE A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY. MR. SAY PART OF REPEAT THE MOTION AS YEAH, THE MO, OKAY, SO THE MOTION IS, AND I'M CONSIDERING WE SEND IT MOVING TO A CONTINUANCE, BUT THE MOTION IS TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED WITH THE ENGINEERING REQUIREMENTS THAT HE'S, HE'S MENTIONED, MR. POWELL HAS MENTIONED HOWEVER, THE COSMETIC REQUIREMENTS AS HE'S PRESENTED IN HIS SAMPLE PHOTO, AND AS WE SEE IN THE PICTURES OF HOW THE BRIDGE IS NOW BE MAINTAINED, AND I STIPULATED THAT NO LESS THAN FIVE SPLITS BECAUSE HE SAID FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT, HE WOULDN'T, HE, HE MAY HAVE TO ONLY PUT FIVE SPLITS ON, ON ONE OF THE SECTIONS THERE. UH, IF YOU CAN DO SIX THE SAME SIZE, THE SAME WIDTH, I'M ALL FOR IT. DOES THE SECOND CONCUR OCCUR? THE SECOND CONCURS WITH RESPECT TO THIS SIDE, UM, RESPONDING TO THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY HAVING BEEN COMPROMISED. SO ARE YOU CONCURRING AS HE SAID IT, OR ARE YOU TRYING TO ADD SOMETHING ELSE TO YOU? I'M JUST ASKING THE APPLICATION. YOU'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT BOTH SIDES, RIGHT? YOU, I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS SIDE THAT NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED IMMEDIATELY, YOU KNOW, THE ETHICAL OBLIGATION TO THE OTHER SIDE. NOW THAT WE KNOW, HEAVEN FORBID, IN 2, 3, 10 YEARS, SOMEBODY FALLS OVER AND OR CRASHES OVER ON A MOTORCYCLE OR A VEHICLE AND YOU KNOW, THEN IT'S ON US. BUT BASICALLY WHAT I WANT HIM TO GET AT IS I WANT THIS BRIDGE ON THIS, ON THIS MOTION THAT I'M MAKING TO LOOK EXACTLY AS IT IS WITH VERY LITTLE VARIANCE. CAN YOU DO THAT? SO THE, WAIT A MINUTE, SIR, BEFORE YOU SPEAK. YES, SIR. IT'S A SECOND CONCUR. HE SO IS YES, YES OR NO, BUT, BUT HE ASKED HIM FOR A CLARIFY. I'M ASK FOR ANOTHER QUESTION. SO YEAH, I ASK FOR CLARIFICATION. FOR CLARIFICATION, I WOULD CONCUR. BUT IF HE GETS HIS CLARIFICATION AND RESPONDS, I MIGHT CONCUR [04:05:01] WITH HIS RE RESPONSE AS WELL. SO, SO I WOULD SAY THAT THE, THE WAY THAT THAT WOULD BE INSURED IS THAT THE CONTRACTOR WOULD NEED TO PREPARE A MOCKUP, NOT JUST OF THE COLUMN, BUT THERE IS IN BETWEEN AS WELL. AND THAT THAT COULD BE MADE AS PART OF THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE CONTRACTOR. UM, WE, WE CAN ASK THAT IS A REQUIREMENT OF THE CONTRACTOR. STEP TO THE MIC, PLEASE, SIR, TO SPEAK. WE CAN ASK THAT. WE CAN RE WE CAN ASK THE CONTRACTOR TO GIVE US A MOCKUP OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IN BETWEEN, SO WE CAN GET A VISUAL. HOWEVER, THE, THE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE FACADE, RIGHT? THE, THE, THE CORE, THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE THAT'S BUILT, THAT'S CRASH RATED, THAT'S A STANDARD DETAIL, RIGHT? SO I, I CAN'T WORRY. I KNOW THAT'S GONNA BE WHAT IT IS. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE DESIGN AND THE FACADE. I'M NOT SURE IF WE CAN MEET THE, THE EXACT WINDOWS. SEE THE, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE EXISTING WINDOWS AND THE NEW WINDOWS IS AN INCH, RIGHT? SO I'M NOT SURE WE CAN MEET THAT CRITERIA. WE CAN DO THE, THE MAKING IT, THE COLUMNS AND THE TEXTURE AND THE, AND THE AESTHETICS LOOK AS, AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE WITH VERY MINIMAL, BUT THE SPACING IN THE WINDOWS, WE'RE LOSING AN INCH PER, PER WINDOW. SO YOU MIGHT GET LIKE A HALF A WINDOW OR, OR MAYBE THREE QUARTERS OF A WINDOW THAT'S MISSING. BUT IT, IT WON'T ADD UP IDENTICAL AS FAR AS HOW MANY WINDOWS, BECAUSE IT'S A, IT'S A STANDARD DETAIL. UH, THE ONLY THING WE CAN, UH, ASSURE YOU AND GIVE YOU REASSURANCE IS IN THE AESTHETICS, THE PILLARS, THE WINDOW PAINT, THE TEXTURE, THE LOOK, ALL OF THAT. WE CAN ASSURE YOU CHAIR NOW THAT HAVING US KNOWING THAT THE WINDOW IS SMALLER, IS THE SPACE IN BETWEEN REQUIRED TO BE SMALLER. SO THE, SO WHEN HE SAYS WE'RE LOSING AN INCH OF MIKE, INSERT EDWARD, WILL YOU PUT IN THE, THE PHOTO OF THE PROPOSED RAIL FROM THE LATE FILE FOLDER, YOU'RE LOSING AN INCH OF THE NEGATIVE SPACE RIGHT? OF THE HOLE. THAT'S THE WHAT WE NEEDED. RIGHT? RIGHT, RIGHT. YOU'RE LOSING AN INCH OF THE HOLE. DOES THAT DO THE, THE, THE CONCRETE IN BETWEEN THE ARCHES IS WIDER. THAT'S WHAT'S GO, THAT'S WHY WE WOULD LOSE A WINDOW, RIGHT? SO THE CONCRETE BETWEEN THE ARCHES IS A LITTLE WATER THAT, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE YOU. THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE SIX WINDOWS. THIS ONE, THE ONE THAT WE TALKED, THIS IS A , THIS WHY I GET IT, RIGHT? I JUST, SORRY, WHAT, WHAT PHOTO IS THIS? THIS IS A GOOGLE PHOTO OF A SEAFALL EVENT. YES. OKAY. YES. THANK YOU. I WAS LIKE I SAID, THAT'S NOT MARKET STREET. THAT IS, THIS IS THE, THIS IS WHAT IS RECOMMENDED IN THE PLANS WITHOUT THE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE COLUMNS AND THE OTHER WINDOWS. SO THIS IS THE THANK YOU FOR PULLING THAT UP. THIS IS WHAT WAS IN THE PLANS, UM, AGAIN, WITHOUT THESE ADDITIONS. RIGHT. OKAY. SO LET ME CLARIFY MY, MY, MY MOTION THEN. ALL RIGHT. AND I KNOW I'M, THERE'S WE GONNA BE DISCUSSION IF YOU CAN MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THAT WITH THE COLUMNS THAT IT HAS RIGHT NOW ON MARKET STREET, I MOVE THAT, THAT HAS, HAS PRESENTED JUST LIKE THAT. THAT'S MY MOTION. AND I WOULD SECOND, YEAH, LET'S DISCUSS. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANY MORE DISCUSSION NECESSARY ON THAT? WELL, YEAH, SOMEBODY WAS SAYING THAT THEY'RE A LITTLE THICKER AND OH WELL, YEAH, MR. CHAIR, I'LL JUST SAY, I'LL JUST COMMENT THAT WE, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS, THERE IS SOMETHING VERY DISTINCT ABOUT THE EXISTING ONES. AND I, I WOULD SAY AN EXACT MATCH IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. YEAH. YEAH. I'M LOOKING FOR AN EXACT MATCH. AN EXACT MATCH THAT'S THINNER. IT'S PROBABLY LOWER THAN THE STANDARD. UM, THIS ONE'S ACTUALLY PRETTY TALL. WHICH ONE? THIS ONE? THE EXISTING, THE EXISTING ONE. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW TALL. SO THERE IS A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE VISUALLY AND I JUST THINK EVERYBODY SHOULD TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. SO TO CLARIFY WITH THIS DRAWING, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU WOULD MATCH THE COLUMNS AND YOU WOULD ADD THIS, UH, INTERMEDIATE PANEL? MM-HMM. WITH THE WINDOW BETWEEN THE COLUMNS? CORRECT. OKAY. FURTHER DISCUSSION. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CASTILLO? AYE. SAVINO NAY VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. MOOKA COME BACK. GUEVARA. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. FETZER, NAY AND GIBBS? NAY. I THINK I GOT SKIPPED HOLLAND. OH, I'M SORRY, HOLLAND. AYE. ZUKA, ARE YOU THERE? CAN YOU DO A VISUAL? [04:10:02] YOU CAN RAISE YOUR HAND OR GIVE A THUMBS DOWN. YOU CANNOT, OH, HE CAN'T HEAR ANYTHING. OKAY. IT'S SIX. SO MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU, . THANK YOU. THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT. YES. AND APPRECIATE YOU. ANOTHER COMMENT THAT WE MADE AT THE SITE THIS WEEK IS I WOULD ENCOURAGE Y'ALL TO STUDY THE OTHER BRIDGES IN TERMS OF PUTTING THE VEHICLE BARRIER OUTBOARD SO THAT THAT'S WHERE THE CRASH HAPPENS. IT ACTUALLY PROTECTS THE PEDESTRIANS ON THE SIDEWALK. IT PROTECTS THE HISTORIC, UH, BRIDGES FROM BEING DAMAGED AND FALLING INTO THE RIVER. SO I'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO STUDY THOSE OPTIONS. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. ITEM 12. ALL RIGHT, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 12, HDRC, CASE NUMBER 2024 DASH 88 10 28 SOUTH ALAMO. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL ONE APPROXIMATELY 27 SQUARE FOOT DOUBLE-SIDED ALUMINUM SIGN FEATURING AN APPROXIMATELY TWO SQUARE FOOT LOGO MOUNTED ON A SIX FOOT TALL ALUMINUM POST STRUCTURE WITH EXTERNAL ILLUMINATION. THE APPLICANT PREVIOUSLY RECEIVED HDRC APPROVAL ON DECEMBER 6TH, 2023 FOR THE INSTALLATION OF ONE SET OF REVERSE AND INDIRECTLY LIT CHANNEL LETTERS ON THE FRONT, UH, SOUTH ALAMO FACADE. THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED SIGNED TOTALS, UH, 17 SQUARE FEET. THE HDRC APPROVED THE REQUESTED SIGNAGE WITH THE STIPULATION THAT ANY FUTURE SIGNAGE WOULD NOT RESULT IN A TOTAL SIGNAGE THAT EXCEEDED 50 SQUARE FEET IN TOTAL. STAFF. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE SIGNAGE BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT MODIFIES THE PROPOSED SIGN TO FEATURE TWO POSTS AND A MORE SUBTLE DESIGN OF HISTORICALLY COMPATIBLE MATERIALS IN ORDER TO COMPLY WITH THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES AND SUBMITS UPDATED SPECIFICATIONS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A COA BASED ON FINDING D AND TWO, THAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE IS REDUCED TO NOT EXCEED 16 SQUARE FEET FOR EACH SIDE BASED ON FINDING D UPDATED SIGNAGE SPECIFICATIONS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A COA AND THE APPLICANT, PATTY EMBAS IS WITH US VIRTUALLY. PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND SEND YOUR CASE. YOU MIGHT NEED TO UNMUTE STILL, PATTY. IN THE MEANTIME, I'LL MENTION THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ANY VOICEMAILS FOR THIS REQUEST, BUT THERE IS A LETTER FROM THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION IN YOUR PACKETS, UH, THAT SUPPORTS STAFF STIPULATIONS. PATTY, ARE YOU THERE? CAN YOU HIT UNMUTE? ARE YOU THERE? WE, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU. UM, BUT IT MIGHT BE OUR PROBLEM. UM, ROLAND, CAN YOU TRY YOURS AGAIN SO YOU CAN HEAR US, BUT WE CAN'T HEAR YOU? OH, SO TRY AGAIN. PATTY, CAN YOU SAY SOMETHING SO WE CAN TELL YOU'RE TALKING, BUT IT'S, WE CAN'T HEAR IT THROUGH THE AUDIO YET AND WE THINK IT'S BECAUSE WHEN WE SWITCHED TO THE CEILING CAMERA, IT CHANGED THE INPUT. SO PATTY, WE'RE GONNA TRY TO GIVE YOU A CALL ON YOUR CELL PHONE. UM, IF YOU CAN ANSWER THAT, THE BEST WE CAN DO IS PROBABLY HOLD YOU UP TO A MICROPHONE. BUT LET'S, WE'LL KEEP TRYING. UM, MR. GIBBS, MAY I RECOMMEND A FIVE MINUTE RECESS? YES, MA'AM. THANK YOU, LET'S TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK WHILE WE WORK ON THESE TECHNICAL ISSUES. SHOES. OH, SORRY, EVERYONE. . IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY. [04:17:51] ARE WE READY? ALL RIGHT, WE ARE RECONVENING. WE'RE BACK IN SESSION. SO WE'VE READ THE ITEM. UM, PATTY, IF YOU CAN, UH, WALK US THROUGH YOUR REQUEST THROUGH THE PHONE. SURE. UM, FOR, LEMME PAUSE A AGAIN, JUST ONE SECOND. SO, UM, YEAH, HAVE A, UM, QUESTION FROM, UM, VICE CHAIR FETZER, UM, BEFORE YOU PRESENT YOUR CASE. SO GO AHEAD SIR. WELL JUST THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR PATIENCE. UM, JUST ONE QUESTION IF YOU'RE GOOD. ARE YOU GOOD WITH REDUCING THE SIZE OF THE, YOUR PAW PRINT HERE TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE RECOMMENDED BY STAFF? UM, I KNOW THAT THEY REALLY WANTED TO TRY TO HAVE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE SAY HOW WE HAVE IT RIGHT NOW, JUST BECAUSE THE BUILDING SIGN IS SO BASIC AND PLAIN AND THAT'S THEIR MAIN, UM, THEIR MAIN LOGO AND BRAND FOR ALL CITY VETS EVERYWHERE. AND SO THAT'S WHAT THEY WANTED ME TO TRY TO DO IF POSSIBLE. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. GO AHEAD. PRESENT YOUR CASE, MA'AM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, YEAH, I, UM, THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME SPEAK ON BEHALF OF CITI BET. UH, THEY, THEY WOULD PREFER NOT TO DO A DOUBLE POLL SIGN JUST BECAUSE THEY THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT ISN'T CONSISTENT WITH THEIR BRAND AND UM, THEY JUST DON'T FEEL IT LOOKS LIKE AS PROFESSIONAL AND AESTHETICALLY PLEASING, LIKE IT'S A SUPER CUTE SIGN. UM, WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT ANY, WE HAVEN'T MADE ANY RENDERINGS TO GO FOR THE 17 SQUARE FEET, SO NOT REALLY SURE HOW THAT WOULD LOOK. UM, I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO LIKE REALLY REDESIGN, YOU KNOW, PUTTING THE CITY VET PORTION LARGER AND THE COST SMALLER. BUT, UM, HEY PATTY, SO THEY WOULD PREFER TO TRY TO STAY WITH THE SIGN AS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, [04:20:01] PATTY, THE WAY WE HAVE THIS RIGGED UP, UM, I NEED YOU TO TURN THE VOLUME DOWN ON YOUR COMPUTER SPEAKERS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WHERE YOU CAN BARELY HEAR US. JUST BECAUSE, BECAUSE IT'S CAUSING IT ECHO. THAT'S FINE. IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU CALL AN RADIO. YES. OKAY. DO YOU WANT ME TO REPEAT WHAT I SAID? NO, WE COULD HEAR YOU JUST FINE. THERE WAS JUST AN ECHO. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. AND SO THAT, THAT IS THEIR MAIN THING. UM, YOU KNOW, THE MONUMENT SIGN THAT WE HAVE PROPOSED IS PRETTY CONSISTENT WITH OTHER CITY VETS, SO THEY WERE JUST HOPING TO BE ABLE TO KEEP IT THAT SIZE JUST BECAUSE THE WALL SIGNAGE IS VERY, YOU KNOW, MUTED. IT DOESN'T HAVE THE LOGO, SO THEY REALLY WANTED TO HAVE THAT POT JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THEIR MAIN BRAND. UM, AND LIKE I SAID, THEY DON'T REALLY WANNA DO THE TWO POLE SIGN. UM, AND JUST THE CURB APPEAL OF IT ALL, IT'S VERY CUTE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, I MEAN, IF WE DO NEED TO GO DOWN TO THE 17, I COULD DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, DO THAT. BUT THEY WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TRY TO STAY WITH WHAT WE HAVE SINCE IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A WHOLE LOT BIGGER. I KNOW IT IS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER, BUT, UM, IT'S NOT A WHOLE LOT BIGGER. SO THAT'S WHAT WE WERE HOPING TO DO. I, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF THERE'S NO QUESTIONS, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. WE CAN GO TO DISCUSSION, BUT I WOULD MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE SIGN WITH THE POST AS PRESENTED. BUT THE, UH, PAUL PART OF THE SIGN BE REDUCED TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF. SECOND. SPEND MORE THAN PROPERTY SECOND. GO AHEAD SIR. UM, I THINK BECAUSE OF THE, THE BUILDING THAT IT'S IN FRONT OF, I THINK THE, THE, UH, POLE IS, IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE, FOR THE STYLE OF THE BUILDING. UM, BUT I THINK REDUCING THE SIZE OF THE, UH, SIGN ITSELF, UH, IS ONE, KEEPING WITH THE, UH, SIGNAGE GUIDELINES AND ALSO, UH, THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING, UM, COULD USE A SMALLER, UH, EMBLEM. FURTHER DISCUSSION. MR. CHAIR, I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THAT AND SUPPORT THE MOTION. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION. ALRIGHT. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. I MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE. CASTILLO? AYE. SINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. GALLOWAY. AYE. MOOKA. OKAY, I THINK WE GOT THAT. HE'S NODDING YES. OKAY. PERFECT. GUEVARA. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR PATIENCE THIS EVENING. YOUR SERVICE MEETING IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU . * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.