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OKAY, AGAIN, THANK YOU, EVERYBODY, SORRY FOR THE DELAY I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE TODAY THIS IS A MEETING OF THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE ON JUND BEGIN WITH TAKING ROLL CALL. MADAM CLERK.
>> CLERK: CHAIR, WE HAVE QUORUM. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU VERY MUCH THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS IS TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM OUR MAY 21 MEETING. HOPEFULLY ALL OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THOSE. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS, ANY CHANGES, ANY MODIFICATIONS TO THOSE MINUTES? AND HEARING NONE, I'D LIKE TO HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM MAY 21. OKAY. A MOTION HAS BEEN MADE AND SECONDED FOR THE MINUTES.
AGAIN, THERE WEREN'T ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE, SO ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
HAVE TWO BRIEFINGS AND POSSIBLE ACTION TODAY. THE FIRST BRIEFING IS ON THE STATUS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC CALMING INITIATIVES. AND SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND BEGIN WITH THAT, AND
LET'S SEE, JOHN, WHO WILL BE MAKING THE PRESENTATION ON THAT. >> RAZZ DISCI.
>> COURAGE: OKAY. GOOD MORNING RAZI. >> GOOD MORNING CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. TODAY'S BRIEFING IS TO PROVIDE YOU UPDATE ON FY24 NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC CALMING PROGRAMS, WHICH IS INCLUDED TRAFFIC SAFETY OPERATION IMPROVEMENTS, RADAR FEEDBACK SIGNS, FLASHING STOP SIGN, AND NEIGHBORHOOD ACCESSIBILITY AND MOBILITY PROGRAM, COMMONLY KNOWN AS NAM PROGRAM. IF BY 2024 ADAPTED HAS $1 MILLION FOR TRAFFIC SAFETY OPERATION, $700,000, UP TO 100 RADAR FEEDBACK SIGNAGE INSTALLATION, 300, UP TO 100 100 FLASHING STOP SIGN INSTALLATIONS, AND OF COURSE $550,000 FOR NEIGHBORHOOD ACCESSIBILITY OR COMMONLY KNOWN NAMP PROGRAM. TRAFFIC SAFETY OPERATION IMPROVEMENT, AS PER 2024 AS I MENTIONED, $1 MILLION WAS APPROVED TO IDENTIFY OPERATIONAL ISSUES RELATED TO SPEED, VOLUME, AND DRIVER BEHAVIOR. COMPLETED 31 IN HOUSE TRAFFIC EVALUATION. BEGAN DESIGN PROJECTS, PROJECTS INCLUDE RAISE PEDESTRIAN MEDIAN AND CROSSING, TRAFFIC SIGNAGE, AND OF COURSE UPGRADE ON PAVEMENT MARKINGS. IF FLASHING STOP SIGN, AS PART OF '24, $300,000, WE'RE BUDGETED FOR THIS PROGRAM, SIGN ENH ENHANCEMENT THAT PROVIDES MOTORISTS ADDITIONAL VISUAL REMINDERS TO STOP. LOCATION IDENTIFIED THROUGHOUT THE CORRIDOR, AND WORK WITH THE CITY TO HELP WITH THOSE, THREE OF THOSE LOCATIONS, THE CRITERIA FOR THIS INSTALLATION, LOCATION HAS TO HAVE THREE OR MORE CRASHES WITHIN THE LAST THREE YEARS. AVERAGE TRAFFIC FOR AT LEAST ONE ENTERING ROADWAY EXCEED 1500 VEHICLES PER DAY OR 2.5 PER MINUTES. FLASHING STOP SIGN, AS OF APRIL 30, 2024, ALL LOCATIONS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED. WE'RE ANTICIPATING 34 LOCATION. 120 HAS BEEN INSTALLED AS OF APRIL, AND WE ARE DOING MORE.
REMAINING SIGNS HAVE BEEN ORDERED, AND WE'RE ANTICIPATING ALL TO BE COMPLETED BY SUMMER OF THIS YEAR. RADAR FEEDBACK SIGN PROGRAM. AS PART OF APRIL 2024, THE BUDGET FOR THIS PROGRAM IS 700,000 TO INSTALL UP TO 100 RADAR FEEDBACK SIGNS. THE SIGNS WILL BE PROGRAMMED TO ALERT DRIVER WHEN THEY'RE TRAVELING FASTER THAN THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT. LOCATION IDENTIFIED THROUGHOUT THE CORRIDOR AND SHARED THE LOCATION LATE LAST YEAR WITH EACH PERSON, AND THEY HAVE CONFIRMED ALL OF THOSE LOCATIONS. CRITERIA FOR INSTALLATION OF THIS DATA OR FEEDBACK SIGNING INCLUDE AVERAGE SPEED EXCEEDS 5 MILES OVER THE POSTED SPEED LIMIT SIGN, AVERAGE DAILY TRAFFIC EXCEEDS 500
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VEHICLES PER DAY, TWO OR MORE SPEED-RELATED CRASHES WITHIN PAST 3 YEARS, EXISTING CURVE WARNING SIGN IS 5 OR LESS, POSTED SPEED LIMIT TRANSITION FROM HIGHER SPEED TO LOWER SPEED, ANY TIME YOU'RE GOING FROM HIGH SPEED TO LOWER SPEED, QUARTER MILE OR MORE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE EXISTING TRAFFIC CONTROL DEVICES, AND HIGH NUMBER OF SPEEDS OFS IDENTIFIED BY SAPD. AS OF APRIL 30, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED ALL 10 LOCATIONS PER EACH COUNCIL DISTRICT, ONE HAS BEEN INSTALLED, 27 IS CONSTRUCTION READY, ALL THE REMAINING MATERIAL HAS BEEN ORDERED, AND WE ARE ANTICIPATING THIS PROGRAM ALSO TO BE DONE IN SUMMER OF THIS YEAR. ON NAMP, WE HAVE $550,000 PER EACH COUNCIL, 5.5 MILLION FOR TEN COUNCIL DISTRICTS. WE GET THIS TWO TIMES PER YEAR, EACH TIME, EIGHT OF THEM, EACH TIME 16 ESTIMATED. WE HAVE EASED THE CRITERIA ON THESE NAMP-FUNDED PROJECTS, ALSO ELIGIBLE PROJECT CAN BE INCLUDED, INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENT, ADD SAFETY, MULTIMODAL TRANSPORTATION, CONNECTIVITY, AND ROADWAY FUNCTIONAL ACTIVITY OR PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY ON CITY PROPERTY.AS OF NAMP, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED 76 PROJECTS WORKING WITH EACH COUNCIL DISTRICT AT THE VALUE OF $3.4 MILLION, AND WE'RE CONTINUING TO IDENTIFY OTHER LOCATIONS TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT THESE IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. THIS IS THE END OF MY PRESENTATION, HAPPY TO TAKE ANY
QUESTIONS. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, RAZI. I HAD A QUESTION. WHAT WOULD BE THE COST YOU WOULD PRESUME TO ANY DISTRICT THAT WANTED TO ADD FLASHING STOP SIGNS BECAUSE THERE MAY BE OTHERS BESIDES WHAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED? SO DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE COST COULD BE PROJECTED FOR A COUNCILMEMBER TO TAKE SOME MONEY OUT OF THEIR FUNDS TO ADD FLASHING STOP SIGNS
SOMEWHERE. >> IT DEPENDS ON THE NUMBER OF THEM, IF IT'S A FEW, WE COULD DO IN-HOUSE, BE A LITTLE BIT LESS EXPENSIVE. IF IT WAS MORE -- LET'S SAY EACH COUNCIL DID AN ADDITIONAL FIVE.
MULTIPLY BY TEN, THAT WOULD BE 50 ADDITIONAL PROJECTS, WE COULDN'T DO THAT IN HOUSE, THAT WOULD BE MORE EXPENSIVE IF YOU DO IT THROUGH THE
CONTRACTORS. >> COURAGE: WELL, I'M JUST SAYING THERE MAY BE ONE OR TWO IN MY DISTRICT OR ANY OTHER DISTRICTS WE REALLY NEED A FLASHING STOP SIGN HERE, AND I KNOW THAT WE'VE ALLOCATED MONEY THROUGH YOUR BUDGET, BUT IF WE WANTED TO DO ADDITIONAL ONES, DO
YOU KNOW WHAT THAT COST WOULD BE? >> $30 -- HOW MUCH WOULD
IT BE, MARC, $3,000 PER EACH. O >> COURAGE: OKAY. ABOUT $3,000 IF WE WANTED TO ADD SOME. OKAY AND YOU DON'T MENTION IN HERE, AS FAR AS TRAFFIC CALMING, THE COST FOR PUTTING IN A SPEED BUMP. AND, AGAIN, I KNOW WE'VE MODIFIED THE PROCESS FOR THAT, AND THAT WASN'T ADDRESSED IN YOUR PRESENTATION, BUT USING THE NEW PROCESS THAT'S IN THERE, WHAT WOULD BE THE AVERAGE COST FOR PUTTING IN A SPEED BUMP, AND IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE THAT WAS JUST ALL ASPHALT, AND IS THAT THE ONLY ONE WE'RE USING NOW? BUT I'VE SEEN THE ONES THAT ARE COVERED WITH, LIKE, A RUBBER MATERIAL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO, YOU KNOW,
WHAT WOULD THOSE RUN? >> MOSTLY, WE'RE USING ASPHALT NOW, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, WE HAVE EASED THE REQUIREMENTS SIGNIFICANTLY. BEFORE, WE HAD TO HAVE SIGNATURE FROM THREE QUARTERS OF THE PEOPLE LIVING ON THAT BLOCK, NOW IT'S 51% ONLY, THEY DON'T HAVE TO SIGN, AND WE HAVE EASED THE LOCATION ALSO. COST, I DON'T HAVE HANDY, I CAN GET BACK TO
YOU THE COST OF ASPHALT, IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE. >> COURAGE: YEAH, THAT WOULD BE USEFUL. I KNOW WE ALL APPRECIATE THE SPEED SIGNS AND RADAR FEEDBACK SIGNS, BUT WE ALWAYS GET REQUESTS FOR MORE THAN WHAT WE'VE GOT BUDGETED, AND IF WE'RE GOING TO USE OUR BUDGET FUNDS, IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR US KNOWING, IF YOU COULD FORWARD THAT INFORMATION TO OUR
OFFICES WE WOULD ALL APPRECIATE THAT. >> SURE.
>> COURAGE: AND IS THERE A TIME FRAME OF COMPLETION FOR THE MAJORITY OF THESE? DO YOU
EXPECT THEM TO BE DONE WITHIN 12 MONTHS, 18 MONTHS. >> WE'RE EXPECTING MOST OF THEM TO BE DONE BY THE END OF SUMMER. WE ORDER ALL THE MATERIAL, MATERIAL TAKES TIME TO ARRIVE, BUT AFTER IT ARRIVES, IT'S RELATIVELY
NOT TOO DIFFICULT TO INSTALL. >> COURAGE: OKAY. THOSE ARE THE
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ONLY QUESTIONS I HAVE RIGHT NOW COUNCCOUNCILMCOUNCILMEMBER. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR, THANK YOU SO MUCH, RAZZ CITY FOR THIS PRESENTATION AND THANK YOU, TOO FOR ALL OF PUBLIC WORKS FOR HELPING US, I KNOW WE'VE WORKED WITH NEIGHBORHOODS TO GET STOP SIGNS IN PLACE, AND THEY'VE BEEN SO APPRECIATIVE, WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTS STOP BY OUR OFFICE TO TELL US THANK YOU AND TAKE A PICTURE WITH THEM AND STUFF LIKE THAT, SO I REALLY APPRECIATE PUBLIC WORK'S HELP WITH ALL OF THAT.
I KNOW THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SPEEDING AND NEIGHBORHOOD TRAFFIC CALMING FOR A LONG TIME. I KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS ALL OF MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES AND I TALK ABOUT ARE THE CITY WIDE ISSUE BECAUSE WE'RE ALL SEEING IT AND FEELING IT, AND I KNOW WE'RE WORKING WITH SAPD AND THE COURTS, I FEEL THAT'S REACTIVE THOUGH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SPEEDING DOWN YOUR STREET, IT CAN ALREADY CAUSE A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS TO HAPPEN, AND SO I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE A LOT OF THESE MEASURES IN PLACE, BUT NOTHING IS MOVING THE NEEDLE BECAUSE WE'RE ALL STILL SEEING A WHOLE LOT MORE SPEEDING. I'M HAPPY TO SEE THE EFFORTS MADE IN THE FISCAL YEAR 2024 BUDGET, BUT I THINK WE DO NEED TO DOUBLE DOWN TO MAKE A GREATER IMPACT. I WAS LISTENING TO A PODCAST THE OTHER WEEK, AND IT WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW TRAFFIC FATALITIES ARE AT A 40-YEAR HIGH IN THE U.S., WHICH IS SCARY AND I THINK SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HOW SAN ANTONIO FAIRS ON THAT, SO COULD WE GET THE DATA ON WHERE WE STAND ON TRAFFIC
FATALITIES. >> I THINK WE CAN. >> ALDERETE GAVITO: OKAY. THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. AND LAST NIGHT THERE WAS A TRAFFIC FATALITY IN DISTRICT 7, WE'RE STILL INVESTIGATING ON IF IT WAS DRIVER BEHAVIOR, BUT WE WANT TO PRIORITIZE PUBLIC SAFETY. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT THE PODCAST -- THAT I WAS LEARNING ABOUT ON THE PODCAST WAS THAT WE'RE SEEING TRENDS IN OTHER MAJOR CITIES, NEW YORK CITY AND D.C. ON EFFORTS TO LOWER SPEED LIMITS ON RESIDENTIAL STREETS. STUDIES SHOW THAT A PERSON GETTING HIT BY A CAR GOING 30 MILES PER HOUR IS 70 PERCENT MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED THAN A CAR GOING 25 MILES PER HOUR. IT ALSO SAID THAT CITIES THAT REDUCE LIMIT TO 25 MILES PER HOUR SAW A 60% REDUCTION IN COLLISIONS INVOLVING CHILDREN, WHICH I THINK IS EXTREMELY IMPACTFUL. SO I THINK IT'S -- THIS IS A DISCUSSION WHERE IT'S SAN ANTONIO HAVING GIVEN THESE STATISTICS. SO WITH THAT, I HAVE A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS. CAN YOU ALL GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT SPEED LIMITS LOOK LIKE IN
RESIDENTIAL AREAS THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO? >> YEAH. COUNCILWOMAN, WE TRIED THIS ONE, STATE CHANGED THE SPEED LIMIT FROM 30 TO 25, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT DIDN'T GO. THE MAJORITY OF THE REZ DEN USUALS ARE IN A 30 MILES PER HOUR MINIMUM. INCLUDING THIS RADAR FEEDBACK SIGN IS GOING TO REALLY HELP US, HOW FAST PEOPLE ARE DRIVING, HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE DRIVING FAST, AND THEN IT GIVES US AN IDEA OF WHAT'S THE ISSUE WITH THAT PARTICULAR ROADWAY, MAYBE WE CAN CHANGE IT. IT'S GOING TO GIVE US A
LOT OF INFORMATION WE DO NOT HAVE TODAY. >> ALDERETE GAVITO: OKAY. SO THE RADAR ENFORCED SIGNS TRACK THE SPEED OF ALL OF THAT AND SPEED THE INFORMATION TO YOU.
>> CORRECT. >> ALDERETE GAVITO: BUT DOESN'T NOTIFY POLICE.
>> CORRECT. WE CAN NOTIFY THE POLICE, THEY KNOW WHAT ROADS PEOPLE ARE TRAVELING FASTER AND WHEN. NIGHT, MORNING, AFTERNOON.
>> ALDERETE GAVITO: YEAH, IT WOULD BE EASY TO SEE FROM THE RADAR-ENFORCED SIGNS AND BE ABLE TO ANALYZE THE SPEED, REALLY IN RESIDENTIAL STREETS BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE'RE ALL HEAR ALL OF THE COMPLAINTS ABOUT, IS SPEEDING CONSTANTLY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I WANTED TO SEE WAS, WHAT IS THE CURRENT PROCESS IN PLACE TO REQUEST A REDUCTION OF THE POSTED SPEED. SO IF WE WANTED TO REDUCE THE SPEED IN A CERTAIN AREA, WHAT WOULD HE HAVE
TO DO? >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: IF I COULD ADD. SO I THINK RAZI WAS TRYING TO ARTICULATE DURING THE LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, THERE WAS A REQUEST FROM THE CITY TO REDUCE THAT SPEED, RIGHT. SO THE CURRENT LOW IS 30, CORRECT, RAZI, AND THAT'S WHAT RESIDENTIAL STREETS ARE AT. SO TO GET BELOW 30. STATE LAW IS STANDING IN THE WAY OF THAT, IS
THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT? >> THAT'S CORRECT, YES, THAT'S CORRECT, AND I UNDERSTAND WE DID HAVE THAT INITIATIVE GO FORWARD. THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND, REGULAR TORY STUDIES AND SUCH. SO THERE ARE OTHER THINGS TO DO THAT, NOT ENTIRELY THE CITY'S DISCRETION.
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>> ALDERETE GAVITO: INTERESTING AND HAVE WE WORKED WITH OUR STATEWIDE ELECTED OFFICIALS ON
THAT? >> ABSOLUTELY. >> YES, WE HAVE.
>> ALDERETE GAVITO: OKAY. YEAH AND WE COULD FOLLOW UP ONLINE JUST TO SEE WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES AND HOW WE, AS A CITY, COULD WORK AROUND THEM, SO THAT'S ALL I HAD. THANK YOU SO
MUCH, RAZI. >> CABELLO HAVRDA: THANK YOU, CHAIR, AND THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION, RAZI, I WANTED TO TAKE A QUICK MOMENT TO THANK YOU AND YOUR TEAM AND PUBLIC WORKS FOR ALL THE WORK YOU'RE DOING IN ONE OF MY NEIGHBORHOODS, IT'S BEEN A STICKY SITUATION, AND YOU GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND AND CAME UP WITH A HOPEFULLY COMPROMISING SOLUTION. I ALSO VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THIS PRESENTATION. IT'S VERY POSITIVE IMPACTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT I TALK WITH, NOT ONLY THE FLASHING SIGNS, STOP SIGNS, BUT THE RADAR FEEDBACK SIGN PROGRAM. AS A MATTER OF FACT, IT CAME UP IN THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. THEY SEEM TO BE FAIRLY EFFECTIVE, THE RADAR FEEDBACK SIGNS, SHORT OF HAVING A POLICE OFFICER ON THE -- YOU KNOW, ON A ROADWAY, THEY SEEM TO BE DOING A GOOD JOB. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS ABOUT THAT SIGN, BUT WHEN YOU SEE YOUR SPEED, IT'S HUMAN NATURE TO SAY, OH I'M NOT FOLLOWING THE RULE, I NEED TO FOLLOW THE RULE; RIGHT? SO I REALLY THINK IT'S AN INTERESTING EFFECT. BUT GOING BACK TO THE SIGN, THE FLASHING STOP SIGNS HAVE BEEN WELL RECEIVED. THE NAMP FUNDING HAS GIVEN MY TEAM A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY, AND WE'RE ABLE TO MORE QUICKLY RESPOND TO RESIDENT'S CONCERNS AND GIVE THEM OPTIONS, SO THAT'S ANOTHER THING I'M REALLY THANKFUL FOR.
THIS FEELS LIKE A VERY IMMEDIATE EFFECT, AND NOT JUST IN OUR RESPONSE TO COMMUNITY, BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN COMMUNITY, THE FLASHING SIGNS THAT I'VE SEEN GO UP IN NEIGHBORHOODS HAVE REALLY MADE AN IMPACT, AND LIKE THE COUNCILWOMAN SAID, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF POSITIVE FEEDBACK FROM COMMUNITY. I THINK I'M ASKING SOMEWHAT SIMILAR QUESTIONS TO COUNCILWOMAN ALDERETE GAVITO, BUT THE PUBLIC SAFETY OR MAYBE A PD QUESTION, BUT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE EFFECT OF THE TRAFFIC CALMING INITIATIVES ON CRASHES, RIGHT, CAR CRASHES, BIKE, PEDESTRIAN ACCIDENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD BRING HERE LATER, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THOSE STATISTICS BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD AND PEOPLE ARE HAPPY, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE SAFE, ESPECIALLY IN NEIGHBORHOODS, SO I'M CURIOUS IF
WE HAVE ANY OF THAT DATA. WE DON'T NOW, DO WE? >> THE INSTALLATION OF 100 RADAR FEEDBACK AND ANOTHER 100 FLASHING LIGHTS IS GOING TO MAKE A BIG DENT, AND THEY'RE REALLY NOT EXPENSIVE, EITHER, TO REDUCE THE TRAFFIC SPEED. 300 -- $3,000 FOR FLASHING STOP SIGNS, $7,000, THAT'S REALLY NOT MUCH MONEY TO SPEND IF IT'LL REDUCE TRAFFIC.
>> CABELLO HAVRDA: YEAH. AND WE DON'T HEAR THAT A LOT IN CITY GOVERNMENT. THAT'S A NICE THING. IT'S NOT TERRIBLY EXPENSIVE. WHICH LEADS TO THE NEXT QUESTION AND, I'M PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT. WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND FOR THESE INITIATIVES IN THE NEXT BUDGET, WOULD YOU BE
CHANCE. >> I THINK 100 PER COUNCIL DISTRICT IS GOOD. MORE THAN, THAT IT WOULD PROBABLY BE CHALLENGING TO HANDLE IN ONE YEAR, EVEN IF YOU GIVE US MORE MONEY, IT WOULD PROBABLY GO THROUGH THE FOLLOWING YEAR. LET US START WITH 100, AND IF WE COULD DO IT SOONER THAN FASTER, AND WE HAVE THE CONTRACT IN MATERIAL ORDER, THEN
WE COULD INCREASE THAT TO A HIGHER NUMBER. >> CABELLO HAVRDA: 100K PER
DISTRICT. >> NO. 100K PER CITY. TEN FLASHING SIGNS.
>> CABELLO HAVRDA: OKAY. THANK YOU. Q. AND WE COULD DO A FEW MORE
FROM YOUR NAMP FUNDING? >> CABELLO HAVRDA: YEAH. AND SOME OF THE BUDGET ASKS WERE
ASKING INCREASE IN NAMP AS WELL. >> I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT WE HAD THE EXPERIENCE WITH THE FLASHING STOP SIGNS THAT NOT ALL WORKS GREAT. SO IN SOME NEIGHBORHOODS IT'S IMPACTFUL TO HOMELESSNESS, WE'VE HAD TO BE CAREFUL, WE'VE PUT SOME IN AND REMOVED THEM, SO THEY'RE USEFUL
IN PARTICULAR SITUATIONS BUT NOT IN ALL. >> CABELLO HAVRDA: THAT'S A GOOD POINT. YOU DON'T WANT A RED FLASHING SIGN CONSTANTLY IN YOUR WINDOW. RIGHT. THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. BUT YA'LL ARE DOING THAT WORK BEFORE INSTALLING, IS THAT YOUR POINT?
THERE'S A STUDY DONE. >> CORRECT. >> CABELLO HAVRDA: OKAY. THANK
YOU SO MUCH, THANKS, CHAIR. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN. COUNCILMAN
MCKEE RODRIGUEZ. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: THANK YOU, CHAIR, BEFORE I FORGET, THE WEBSITE REFLECTS THE OLD STANDARDS, THE HOMEOWNERS SIGNATURES AND 2/3 APPROVAL, IF
THAT COULD BE FIXED THIS WEEKEND. >> SORRY ABOUT THAT.
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>> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: YEAH. AND PART OF IT IS THE TRANSITION FROM ONE WEBSITE TO ANOTHER, IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE. I'LL ECHO SOME SENTIMENTS FROM MY COLLEAGUES. RESIDENTS ARE SO EXCITED WHEN THEY SEE THE PROJECTS AND PROGRAMS COMING ALONG. ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WITH NAMP SOMETIMES, WE WHEN GET ESTIMATES, THEY'RE EITHER CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE. AND SO YOU HAVE TO DO MORE PLANNING BETWEEN YEAR TO YEAR, BUT WHAT I LOVE SO MUCH ABOUT NAMP AND CIP AND ECHOING COUNCILMEMBER DID A BY A OWE HAVRDA IS THAT SO OFTEN WITH PUBLIC WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, THE ANSWER IS YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT, IT'S A FIVE-YEAR WAIT LIST OR THIS OR, YOUR PROJECT IS COMING UP IN FOUR YEARS, AND RESIDENTS DON'T LIKE TO HEAR THAT, SO SOMETIMES WHEN THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE MORE PRESSING AND WE HAVE A BIT OF MONEY TO ALLOCATE IMMEDIATELY, THAT GOES A LONG WAYS, AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE ADVOCATED FOR INCREASES TO NAMP AND CIP, AND I IMAGINE WE CAN CONTINUE TO DO THAT. SOMETHING I WOULD LOVE TO EXPLORE IN YOUR PORTFOLIO OF CALMING METHODS, THE ADDITION OF ASPHALT ART. SO I WAS LOOKING AT OTHER THINGS FOR A DIFFERENT REASON, BUT WHEY FOUND INTERESTING WAS IT ACCOMPLISHED GOALS AT THE SAME TIME, REVITALIZE COMMUNITIES, CONNECT COMMUNITIES DOWNTOWN TO NEIGHBORHOODS OR NEI UNIVERSITIS DOWNTOWN. SOMETIMES THEY SAW 60%. THEY SAW THE PERCENTAGE OF DRIVERS YIELDING FROM RIGHT OF WAYS INCREASES TO 78%. HUGE TRAFFIC IMPACTS BASED ON THE ART, SO THAT'S SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO EXPLORE WITH YOU AND I THINK IT ACCOMPLISHES OUR ART GOALS OF HAVING EVERY COMMUNITY WITHIN A DISTANCE FROM ART, AND SO I THINK THAT'S A CREATIVE METHOD THAT MAYBE WE HAVEN'T EXPLORED TO ITS FULLEST YET. BUT THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THIS, WE'RE SUPER ABOUT -- WE LOVE
TRAFFIC CALMING. THANK YOU. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN. I HAD A COUPLE OF OTHER POINTS I JUST WANTED TO MAKE. ON THE RADAR FEEDBACK SIGNS THAT WE'RE INSTALLING, DO THEY RECORD TO WHERE THAT RECORDED INFORMATION COULD BE DOWNLOADED AND USED BY SAPD TO UNDERSTAND THE KIND OF TRAFFIC ON -- THAT'S GOING ON IN THOSE STREETS.
>> YES, SIR. >> COURAGE: AND I'D LIKE TO SEE US ESTABLISH SOME KIND OF PROCESS TO WHERE SAPD WOULD ACTUALLY -- OR YOUR DEPARTMENT WOULD ACTUALLY DOWNLOAD THAT INFORMATION AND FORWARD IT TO THE NEAREST SUBSTATION, AND THAT WOULD GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY AS COUNCILMEMBERS TO REVIEW WITH THE LOCAL SUBSTATIONS HOW THEY'RE USING THAT INFORMATION TO BETTER CONTROL TRAFFIC WITH THEIR RESOURCES. SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD ANTICIPATE IT AS A PROCESS TO DOWNLOAD THAT INFORMATION AND PASS IT ON SAPD, OR WITH THE CORPORATION OF SAPD, THEY WOULD WORK ON IT TOO, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR HOW WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO THAT AT A FUTURE MEETING SO THAT WE KNOW THAT IT'S NOT JUST FLASHING A WARNING AT PEOPLE, BUT IT'S INFORMING THE CITY AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT ABOUT THE ACTUAL
TRAFFIC FLOW ON THOSE STREETS. >> COUNCILMAN, YOU'RE CORRECT. WE'RE GOING TO SHARE THE INFORMATION FOR THE CITY, AND ALSO -- WE WANT TO REALLY SEE WHY PEOPLE ARE DRIVING FASTER THAN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE, WHEN ARE THEY DRIVING, AND FIND THE REASON. MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING WE
NEED TO DO WITH THE ROADWAY ITSELF. >> COURAGE: RIGHT. ANOTHER THING IS ON STRIPING. I KNOW THAT WE'VE CHANGED THE POLICY TO WHERE THE CITY IS GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT STRIPING IS REDONE EVERY THREE YEARS RATHER THAN FIVE YEARS; IS THAT CORRECT.
>> THAT'S CORRECT. COUNCIL DOUBLED OUR BUDGET FOR 2024. WE USED TO DO FIVE YEARS ON THE RESIDENTIAL AND OTHER, DOWNTOWN AND MAJOR CORRIDOR WE WOULD DO EVERY THREE YEARS. NOW EVERY ROADWAY IS
GOING TO BE ONCE EVERY THREE YEARS. >> COURAGE: DOES THAT INCLUDE CROSSWALKS AND LANE MARKINGS AND THINGS IN THE ROAD SAYING RIGHT TURN ONLY, OR, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT SAY SPEED, 30 MILES PER HOUR, WHATEVER IT IS? ARE ALL OF THOSE MARKINGS SCHEDULEED TO
BE CHANGED EVERY THREE YEARS? >> ALL OF THE MARKINGS WILL BE REDONE IN THREE
YEARS. >> COURAGE: OKAY. WILL THAT SHOW UP IN OUR MIP SO THAT WITHIN MY DISTRICT I'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK AND SEE WHERE THOSE MARKINGS ARE SCHEDULED TO BE REDONE IN THE NEXT YEAR AND THEN THE SECOND YEAR, THIRD YEAR, ET CETERA.
>> THEY ARE SCHEDULED LIKE WE HAVE SCHEDULED FOR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS, SIDEWALKS, WE CAN SHARE THAT INFORMATION WITH YOUR
OFFICE. >> COURAGE: OKAY. AND, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT SUGGEST -- AND I
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THINK THE OTHER COUNCILMEMBERS WOULD PROBABLY AGREE. SOMETIMES WE HEAR FROM PEOPLE IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT -- MAN, I CAN'T EVEN SEE THOSE MARKINGS ANYMORE, AND IF THEY'RE NOT ON THE SCHEDULE FOR THIS YEAR BUT THEY'RE SCHEDULED FOR YEAR 2 OR YEAR 3, SOMETIMES WE CAN MAKE ARRANGEMENTS WITH YOUR DEPARTMENT TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE THAT SEEM TO BE MORE IMMEDIATEIN NEED, ISN'T THAT RIGHT? >> YES, WE CAN, AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT JUST GOING TO BE ISOLATED ALL OVER THE PLACE BECAUSE THE CONTRACTOR DOESN'T WANT TO GO FROM ONE PLACE, MAYBE A NEIGHBORHOOD ONE TIME
RATHER THAN DOING JUST ONE ROADWAY. >> COURAGE: OKAY. HAVE WE EVER EXPLORED THE POSSIBILITY OF SENDING OUT CREWS TO CLEAN THE MARKERS RATHER THAN TOTALLY REPLACE THEM? BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, THEY GET COVERED WITH DIRT OR GRIM, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE OUT A SPRAY WASHER THAT PEOPLE USE ALL THE TIME ON STREETS AND SIDEWALKS, AND THEY COULD BE, YOU KNOW, REFURBISHED IN A FEW MINUTES, AND THEN IT SAVES US TIME AND MONEY. HAVE
WE THOUGHT ABOUT INVESTING IN CREWS TO DO THAT. >> ACTUALLY, COUNCILMAN, WE HAVE DONE IT, IT'S AS EXPENSIVE TO PRESSURE WASH THAN IT IS REPAINTING BECAUSE MANY TIMES THEY'RE CRACKED, IT'S NOT PEOPLE COULDN'T SEE, IF YOU PAY ATTENTION, YOU REALIZE THEY'RE CRACKING AND FALLING OUT. THERE'S NOT MUCH TO SALVAGE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU PRESSURE WASH, YOU REMOVE SOME OF THE LOOSE MATERIAL, IT'S AS EXPENSIVE TO PRESSURE WASH THAN IT IS TO STRIPE IT.
>> COURAGE: BUT WE DO THAT IN SOME OCCASIONS WHEN IT SEEMS LIKE IT MAKES SENSE.
>> WE CAN. WE CAN. >> COURAGE: ALL RIGHT. WELL THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU'VE GIVEN US TODAY. THANK YOU.
NOW, SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED THAT I DID NOT DO OUR PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING. WE HAVE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME HERE TODAY TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE SECOND AGENDA ITEM THAT WE HAVE, AND SO I'VE DELAYED THAT. WE'VE GOT APPROXIMATELY -- WELL, WE'VE GOT THREE GROUPS AND AN ADDITIONAL SIX OTHER INDIVIDUALS WHO WANTED TO MAKE PUBLIC COMMENT, I BEDROOM ALMOST ALL OF THEM MAY N THE SECOND ITEM. SECOND ITEM IS BRIEFING AND POSSIBLE ACTION FROM THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT REGARDING HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES. AND SO AT THIS POINT, I'LL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AND WE DO HAVE GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS, I'LL CALL THEM AS I HAVE THEM POSTED HERE. THE FIRST GROUP IS LED BY STEPHANIE GARCIA. SHE WILL HAVE NINE MINUTES, AND I BELIEVE SHE BROUGHT A VIDEO FOR US TO SEE.
SO, MS. GARCIA, WOULD YOU JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO EVERYBODY. >> YEAH. MY NAME IS STEPHANIE GARCIA, I'M THE OWNER OF YELLOW ROSE AND HRH CARRIAGE COMPANY IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. SO I BELIEVE THE VIDEO IS BEING PASSED THROUGH.
>> WE HAVE BEEN IN OPERATION FOR DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO FOR MANY YEARS, MUCH LIKE MANY OF THE COMPANIES YOU'LL SEE ROLLING THROUGH THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO. OUR HORSES THAT YOU SEE HERE WITH US TODAY ARE OUR FAMILY, AS WELL AS OUR BUSINESS. THE HORSES ARE VERY WELL MAINTAINED, CARED FOR, LOVE WHAT THEY DO. ON A DAILY BASIS, OUR HORSES SEE PEOPLE AND GET HAPPINESS, AFFECTION AND LOVE, NOT ONLY FROM US,
BUT AS WELL AS ON THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO. >> I HAD NAME IS DR. BEN ES PI, I'M A VETERINARIAN, GRADUATED FROM TEXAS A&M IN 2006 I DID A RESIDENCY, ABORTED SPECIALIST AND HORSE MEDICINE, AND PRACTICED IN LEXINGTON KENTUCKY FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND THEN MOVED BACK TO SAN ANTONIO WHERE I'M FROM. THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO CODE FOR CARRIAGE HORSES WAS VERY OUTDATED UNTIL THEY HIRED ME, ME AND AUDRA REDID THE CITY CODE TO MAKE IT MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THE USE OF HORSES. THESE HORSES ARE BRED TO WORK, THEY'RE BRED TO PULL HEAVY OBJECTS. EVER SINCE THEY WERE INTRODUCED TO THE UNITED STATES FROM EUROPE, YOU KNOW, BACK IN THE 1800S, THEIR ONLY GOAL AND ONLY JOB HERE IN THE CONTINENTAL U.S. IS TO PULL.
THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DESIGNED TO DO, AND THAT'S WHAT THEIR MENTALITY IS DESIGNED TO DO, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE PHYSICALLY SUITABLE TO DO. IN THE VETERINARIAN INDUSTRY, WE DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE HORSES ARE LARGE HUMANS. SO HORSES HAVE TO BE TREATED LIKE HORSES AND CARED FOR, OBVIOUSLY, BUT WE DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE YOU CAN EXTRAPOLATE HORSE MEDICINE FROM SOME NEBULOUS CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SMOG, OR CAR POLLUTION AND THAT KIND OF THING. I'VE NEVER, IN MY
[00:30:07]
LIFE, SEEN OR HEARD OF A DECLINE EMPLOYEE, OR A GOOD WAY TO THINK OF THEM, CITY AMBASSADORS. I'VE NEVER SEEN A HORSE IN THIS ENVIRONMENT OR COMPETITIVE DRAFT HORSE ENVIRONMENT THAT'S BEEN AFFECTED BY ENVIRONMENT, TOXIC GASES.NEVER SEEN A HORSE GET PNEUMONIA FROM WORKING ON A STREET IN A METROPOLITAN AREA, NEVER SEEN A HORSE GET ASTHMA FROM WORKING DOWNTOWN, SO WE DON'T SEE THE RESPIRATORY -- WE SEE MORE RESPIRATORY DISEASE IN HUMANS THAN WE DO IN HORSES, FOR SURE. YOU KNOW, I'M A CONTRACT EMPLOYEE FOR THE CITY. I MEAN, I GET PAID FOR INSPECTING THESE HORSES, SO I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT AT SOME POINT IF THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY, THAT THEY WOULD TALK TO THE PERSON
WHO'S IN CHARGE OF THE MEDICAL CARE OF THE HORSES. >> MY NAME IS SKYLER NEWMAN, I'M A MANAGER HERE. AND THERE'S A COMMON MISCONCEPTION WITH THE PUBLIC, WHEN WE SAY THEY'LL END UP IN RESCUES, IT'S NOT THAT WE'LL SELL THEM TO RESCUES, WE'LL SELL THEM TO PRIVATE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FANTASIES OR DREAMS OF OWNING HORSES, AND THEY GET THE BIG HORSES AND THEY DON'T REALIZE HOW EXPENSIVE THEY ARE AND HOW MUCH LAND AND CARE THEY NEED, AND THEN IT BECOMES TOO MUCH, AND THAT'S HOW OUR HORSES WILL END UP IN KILL PENS AND PLACES THAT WE DON'T WANT OUR FAMILY MEMBERS TO GO TO, THEY'RE NOT JUST TOOLS, THEY'RE FAMILY.
>> KIERA REEVES. I'VE BEEN HERE TEN YEARS. I OVERSEE THE CARE IN THE BARN, THE DRIVERS, MAKING SURE THEY'RE DOING EVERYTHING THEY SHOULD BE DOING FOR THE HORSES.
LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN HERE TEN YEARS NOW, I'VE INVESTED THE ENTIRETY OF MY ADULT LIFE INTO THE COMPANY AND THIS JOB, I SPEND A LOT OF TIME HERE. IF WE SHUT DOWN, A LOT OF THESE GUYS WON'T BE HERE ANYMORE. WE DON'T LIKE TO CALL THEM OUR JOB, HE'S MY PARTNER. HE LISTENS TO ME WHEN I HAVE A BAD DAY. I KEEP HIM HAPPY AND HEALTHY, HE KEEPS ME HAPPY AND SANE. SO IT'S HARD. I RAISED MY KID ON THIS JOB, I'VE GROWN INTO AN ADULT AT THIS JOB, AND IT WOULDN'T BE WITHOUT THESE GUYS.
>> WE ARE EMOTIONALLY AND FINANCIALLY IMPACTED BY THE IMPACTS OF THE CCR. WALKING AROUND THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO, THERE HAS BEEN CHANGES FOR SAN ANTONIOIANS AS WELL AS THE COMPANY IS IMPACTED BY THE CHANGES IN DOWNTOWN FROM CONSTRUCTION, FROM ROAD CLOSURES, FROM CHANGES OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR DOWNTOWN AS WELL AS PEOPLE VISITING SAN ANTONIO. THAT HAS BEEN THE SAME FOR US THAT WAS TEN AND FIFTEEN YEARS AGO WHEN I STARTED DOING THIS, AS WELL AS HERE TODAY. SAN ANTONIO HAS TO CHANGE EVER SO SWIFTLY WITH THE TIMES BUT ALSO KEEP THE HISTORY OF OUR DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR. OVER THE YEARS, THERE IS NEW CONSTRUCTION AT THE ALAMO, WE ARE CHANGING, WE'RE INNOVATING, WE'RE MAKING THE ALAMO A DESTINATION PLACE FOR SAN ANTONIO. THAT'S A PART OF OUR GREAT HISTORY, BUT THE HORSES AS WELL ARE A PART OF THAT AS WELL. OUR HORSES ARE TURNED OUT ON A REGULAR ROTATION, SO NOT JUST HERE IN THE STREETS OF DOWNTOWN, HERE GETTING BATHS IN OUR BARN, IN OUR PASTURES, RUNNING AROUND PLAYING, GETTING SPRINKLER TIME, GETTING MOUNDS OF HAY AND GRASS, SO NOT JUST THE LIFE YOU'LL SEE FOR OUR HORSES. I SPEND PROBABLY OVER $150,000 IN JUST FOOD FOR GRAIN FOR THESE HORSES A YEAR. IF OUR BUSINESSES ARE SHUT DOWN, A SINGLE PERSON HAS A HARD TIME COVERING THAT COST FOR THESE HORSES AS WELL AS GIVING THEM THE EXERCISE THAT THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO BE AS HEALTHY AS YOU SEE THEM SITTING HERE TODAY. WE, AS AN INDUSTRY, GAVE OVER 300,000 PEOPLE RIDES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA LAST YEAR, AND THAT'S NOT EVEN COUNTING CHILDREN. SAN ANTONIO AND THE TOURISM, THEY WANT US HERE, THEY COME HERE TO SEE US, AND I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE A BIG IMPACT OF WHAT'S LOOKED AT IN THE CCR COMING TODAY.
>> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MS. GARCIA, YOU STILL HAVE I BELIEVE A FEW MINUTES OF TIME.
>> OKAY. I KNOW SOME OF YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT MY HORSES AND HOW WE TREAT THEM. INSTEAD, THEY MAKE IT THE MISSION TO RUIN LIVES OF SMALL BUSINESSES BY FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND PERFECTLY TIMES PHOTOS OF MY FAMILY GOING ABOUT THEIR DAY-TO-DAY BUSINESS. YES, THEY CATCH A HORSE WITH ITS TONGUE OUT OR FOAM AROUND ITS MOUTH, YOU DON'T REALIZE THAT FOAM AROUND ITS MOUTH IS BECAUSE THE HORSE IS PLAYING, IT'S HAPPY, THEY SAY IT'S DOWN TO DEHYDRATION. CAN YOU
[00:35:02]
FOAM AT THE MOUTH IF YOU ARE THIRSTY. THESE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE NAMES OF THE ANIMALS, THEY DON'T REALIZE THE BOND BETWEEN THE DRIVER AND THE HORSE. YOU'VE SEEN AND HEARD FROM EXPERTS TODAY. ON THE 22ND OF MAY, WE ATTENDED THE MEETING TO START SOME DISCUSSION, PRESENTED IDEAS AND DISCUSSIONS THROUGH CARRIAGE STANDS THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY OVER THE YEARS. SOME OF THEM ARE DOWNTOWN, MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE CARRIAGES TO SPREAD OUT AND USE ROUTES. IT WAS MENTIONED THE CONGESTION WAS BAD, BUT THIS IS NOT EVERY DAY.IT LASTS ABOUT 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR, AND, YES, THIS IS THE ONLY SIDE OF DOWNTOWN THAT MOST PEOPLE SEE, AND WE ARE INCLUDED IN THE MIDST OF T BUT WOULDN'T THESE HORSELESS ELECTRIC CARRIAGES, SLOW MOVING VEHICLES, ALSO BE IN THE MIDST OF IT CAUSING CONGESTION, WE'VE ALSO REDUCED HOURS, NOT WORKING MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. GOING OUT LATER SO WORKERS DOWNTOWN CAN DISPERSE. IF YOU TAKE US OUT OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA COMPLETELY, IT'S LIKE TURNING THE LIGHTS OUT ON OUR BUSINESSES, WE JUST WOULDN'T SUR SURVIVE. THE TOWN VOTED UNANIMOUSLY FOR THIS TO BE PASSED BACK SO THEY CAN WORK WITH THE INDUSTRY AND GET WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CITY AND THE HORSE CARRIAGES. THERE'S BEEN MENTION ABOUT CITATION, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF CITATIONS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS. I'VE SPOKEN WITH MANY DRIVERS THAT HAVE BEEN WITH ME FOR NUMEROUS YEARS. BETWEEN 20 OF THEM, THEY'VE HAD TICKETS FOR VARIOUS THINGS, DIAPER BAGS OR NOT HAVING LICENSE. 11 WERE DISMISSED. TWO REDUCED. TWO STILL TO GO TO COURT, AND THE OTHERS WERE PAID. SO THE ONLY REASON THEY WERE PAID IS BECAUSE THE DRIVERS DID NOT HAVE TIME TO GO TO COURT TO CONTEST THEM. ALL WE ARE ASKING IS THAT WE -- WE HAVE A GREAT ORDNANCE, WE LEAD THE WAY IN THE COUNTRY, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT, WE WANT TO COMPROMISE, WE WANT TO WORK TOGETHER, PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN, THE CARRIAGE HORSES BELONG
IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MS. GARCIA. NEXT IS KATIE JARL
YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES. >> THANKS. GOOD MORNING, MY NAME IS KATIE JARL, I'M A RESIDENT OF DISTRICT 1, AND I'M HERE TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF PROBITTING CARRIAGE IN SAN ANTONIO. WHILE I AM HERE TODAY IN MY CAPACITY AS A RESIDENT OF THIS CITY, I'VE DEVOTED MY PROFESSIONAL CAREER AND ALL OF MY VOLUNTEER TIME TO ANIMAL WELFARE ISSUES AND WORKED ON EQUINE PROTECTION POLICY AT THE NATIONAL, STATE, AND LOCAL LEVELS FOR NEARLY 2 DECADES, SO OF COURSE ONE OF MY PRIMARY REASONS FOR SPEAKING TODAY IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE INHUMANE WORKING CONDITIONS THESE HORSES SUFFER IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. IN FACT, THE CONCERN FOR THE ANIMALS VOICED BY LOCAL RESIDENTS IS THE PRIMARY REASON THE MAJORITY OF SAN ANTONIO WANTS TO SEE THIS PRACTICE DISCONTINUED IN VARIOUS POLLS AND SURVEYS. THIS IS NOT PERSONAL, NOR MEANT TO ATTACK ANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT OPERATE THESE CARRIAGES, AND I AM NOT HERE TO SAY THAT HORSES SHOULD NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES PULL A CARRIAGE. IT IS ONLY TO SAY THAT SAN ANTONIO'S DOWNTOWN STREETS HAVE OUTGROWN THE ABILITY TO ACCOMMODATE THE HORSE ARRAIGN CARRIAGES SAFELY, SOMETHING THE VIDEO WE WATCHED ACKNOWLEDGED. THE TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS HAVE CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE THESE PERMITS WERE FIRST ISSUED IN 1865, AND I AM SURE OUR COUNCIL HAS RIGHTFULLY REVISITED THE VIABILITY OF SAFETY AND MANY ISSUES, TRANSPORTATION AND OTHERWISE, OVER THE LAST 150 YEARS. TODAY, THE HORSES DOWNTOWN ARE FACING HOTTER TEMPERATURES DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE, CONSTRUCTION AT EVERY TURN, FORCING THEM TO VENTURE ON TO EVEN MORE POPULATED ROADWAYS AND NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS, INCLUDING MINE IN DISTRICT 1, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE A CRITICAL EMERGENCY ROUTE FOR THE AMBULANCES AND FIRE TRUCKS AT FIRE STATION NUMBER 7. THE HORSES ARE FORCED TO ENDURE AN INCREASED AMOUNT OF CAR AND BUS EXHAUST FUMES PUMPING INTO THEIR FACES AS THEY NAVIGATE THE AREA FOR THE 7TH LARGEST CITY IN THE COUNTRY. THESE CONDITIONS EXIST DAILY, DESPITE THE WELL-MEANING REGULATIONS ON THE BOOKS MEANT TO PROTECT THEM. THE HORSE CARRIAGES ARE RELICS OF THE PAST IN A CITY THAT IS FOCUSED ON BECOMING A MORE RESILIENT CITY IN THE FUTURE. MANY CITIES, BOTH DOMESTIC AND ABROAD, INCLUDING OUR SISTER CITY OF GUADALAJARA, MEXICO,
[00:40:01]
HAVE TAKEN THE SENSIBLE ACTION WE HOPE YOU CONSIDER TODAY. REMOVE THE HORSES FROM THE DANGERS THEY FACE DAILY AND HELP US MOVE TOWARDS THE TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS OF THE FUTURE THAT BETTER ALIGN WITH OUR VALUES AND NEEDS AND BETTER REFLECT THE MODERN, MAJOR,METROPOLITAN CITY WE ARE TODAY. THANK YOU. >> COURAGE: HE HAS -- BEN ESPY
IS NEXT, SPEAKING FOR A GROUP. NINE MINUTES. >> GOOD MORNING. I DON'T HAVE A PREPARED STATEMENT. I WANT TO MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE SINCE I'VE BEEN THE VETERINARIAN FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO SINCE 2006. I'VE INSPECTED ALL THE CARRIAGE HORSES SINCE 2011. I'M HERE ON PUBLIC RECORD TO TELL YOU THAT NO COUNCIL PERSON HAS EVER CONTACTED ME ABOUT THE HEALTH OR WELFARE OF THE ANIMAL. NO CITIZEN GROUP HAS EVER CONTACTED ME ABOUT THE HEALTH OR WELFARE OF THE ANIMALS. THE ANIMALS THAT I TAKE CARE OF, AS I SAID IN THE VIDEO, HAVE NOT HAD ANY INJURIES OR HEALTH EFFECTS FROM BEING WORKED ON THE CITY STREETS. THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF EQUINE PRACTITIONERS IS THE NATIONAL BOARD -- OR THE NATIONAL GROUP THAT ALL EQUINE VETERINARIANS ARE MEMBERS OF. IT NUMBERS BETWEEN 7,000 AND 10,000 PEOPLE THAT ARE EQUINE VETERINARIANS WORLDWIDE, APPROXIMATELY 7,000 OF THOSE ARE AMERICAN VETERINARIANS, AND THEN OF COURSE WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL MEMBERS. I AM ALSO THE LIAISON TO THE AVMA FOR EQUINE WELFARE, SO I'M THE HORSE VETERINARIAN -- OR HORSE REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE AVMA, WHICH IS THE AMERICAN VETERAN MED CAL ASSOCIATION. SO I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE PUBLIC HEALTH CONCERNS ASSOCIATED WITH LIVING IN A METROPOLITAN AREA, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I HAVE DRAFT HORSES THAT I DEAL WITH AS FAR AWAY AS IN SALT LAKE CITY UTAH. I PRACTICED FOR THE VETERINARIAN AS THE 2019 AND 2021 WORLD CHAMPION DRAFT HORSE HITCH FOR YOUNG LIVING ESSENTIAL OILS, AND THE ONLY REASON THAT'S RELEVANT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A VERY CLEAN AND PRISTINE ENVIRONMENT AS OPPOSED TO OUR METROPOLITAN AREA, THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF SALT LAKE CITY IN MONA, UTAH, AND THEY PULL LOADS OF BETWEEN 6 AND 8 HORSES ATTACHED TO THE SAME HITCH. I HAVE WORKED WITH ANHEUSER-BUSCH ON THE BUDWEISER CLYDESDALES AND THE VETERINARIAN FOR THE SAN ANTONIO RODEO, WHICH INCLUDES DRAFT HORSE PARTICIPATION IN THAT EVENT, AND I AM CURRENTLY A CONTRACT LABORER PERSON FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. SO POINT, IS THAT I HAVE CONTACT AND AM IN CHARGE OF THE HEALTHCARE FOR DRAFT HORSES IN A HIGH ALTITUDE, CLEAN ENVIRONMENT. I'VE BEEN A DRAFT HORSE VETERINARIAN FOR ANIMALS IN A COMPETITION ENVIRONMENT IN ARENAS. I AM A MEMBER OF THE AEP BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND A LIAISON TO THE AVMA. AND I'M ALSO THE CITY VETERINARIAN, JUST COINCIDENTALLY, FOR THESE DRAFT HORSES. SO I DON'T KNOW OF ANYTHING MORE I CAN ACCUMULATE OR AGES OF EXPERIENCE I CAN GARNER, BUT, AGAIN, I'VE NEVER BEEN CONTACTED BY ANYBODY CONCERNED ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THESE ANIMALS. SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO OPEN IT UP FOR ANY QUESTIONS THAT YA'LL HAVE AS FAR AS CONCERNS THAT YA'LL MIGHT HAVE. I'M NOT REALLY SURE WHERE THE GROUNDS OF THIS -- OF THESE CONCERNS CAME FROM BECAUSE IN 2022, THE SAME CONCERNS WERE RAISED, AND THEY WERE
QUASHED FOR -- I'M NOT SURE WHY. >> THANK YOU, THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS FOR YOU LATER, BUT AT THIS TIME, WE'RE JUST ALLOWING
COMMENTS TO COME TO THE COMMITTEE. >> OKAY. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> YES, SIR, THANK YOU. >> COURAGE: KATHY STEVENS.
[00:45:05]
MS. STEVENS, YOU HAVE THREE MINUTES, AND IF YOU COULD IDENTIFY YOURSELF.>> HI, I'M KATHY STEVENS, I'M THE MANAGER FOR BLUEBONNET AND LOLLIPOP CARRIAGES, THIS THATWAS MY VOICE ON THE VIDEO, SO YOU HEARD A LOT OF WHAT I HAD TO SAY ON THE VIDEO. THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE TODAY THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE DO. I UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT WE DO IS A VERY ODD JOB. HORSES ARE MAGNIFICENT ANIMALS, BUT ALSO ARE NOT UNDERSTOOD COMPLETELY IN THEIR ABILITIES, AND WE USE DRAFT HORSES. THESE HORSES WEIGH ANYWHERE FROM 1500 POUNDS TO OVER 2,000 POUNDS. MY SMALLEST HORSE CAN PULL FIVE TO SIX TIMES HER WEIGHT, SO I CAN TELL YOU, WHEN I HAVE FOUR TO SIX PEOPLE SITTING IN MY CARRIAGE, SHE'S NOT EVEN STRUGGLING AS FAR AS WHAT SHE'S WALKING THROUGH. EVERY PART AND PIECE OF THEM IS DESIGNED TO HELP THEM WALK, TO BE ABLE TO FLOW WITH THEM. SO WHEN YOU SEE THESE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT EMERGENCY VEHICLES, THESE HORSES CAN'T STOP OR ARE STOPPING EMERGENCY VEHICLES FROM OPERATING, MY HORSE JUST SIMPLY WILL STEP OVER, JUST LIKE A CAR WHEN A FIRE TRUCK GOES BY, GOES OVER TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, THAT'S WHAT OUR HORSES DO. SO WE ACTUALLY WORK WITH SAFD WHEN WE BRING IN NEW HORSES TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE OKAY WITH FIRE TRUCKS AND AMBULANCES AND SIRENS AND ALL OF THAT, AND IF A HORSE DOES NOT LIKE IT OR ISN'T OKAY WITH IT, THEY DON'T EVER COME DOWNTOWN. SO THIS IS PRACTICES THAT WE ALL TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AND ENSURE THE SAFETY OF OUR HORSES ARE THE PEOPLE, US, MYSELF, WHO DRIVES THE CARRIAGES, I WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M SAFE ON THE ROADS, AS WELL AS THE PASSENGERS THAT WE TRANSPORT DOWN THE STREET. I DRIVE A HORSE THAT, AS HAS BEEN -- AS YOU'LL HEAR FROM THE YOUNG LADIES HERE, FOAMS AT THE MOUTH. HE WAS IN THE VIDEO BECAUSE HE PLAYS WITH HIS BIT, HE ENJOYS BEING DOWNTOWN, HE'S EXCITED TO COME DOWNTOWN, HE RUNS ALL THE WAY DOWN. HE PLAYS WITH HIS BIT, CONSTANTLY GOING LIKE THIS, AND THAT MAKES HIM FOAM AT THE MOUTH. HE'S HYDRATED. MY HORSE GETS WATER AFTER EVERY SINGLE RIDE HE DOES. HE CARRY 12 GALLONS OF WATER ON THE CARRIAGE WITH ME AND HAVE BACKUP WATER IF NEEDED. MY HORSE IS OFFERED WATER EVERY TIME, THIS IS THE SIGN OF A HEALTHY AND HAPPY HORSE. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S CONFUSION, WE'RE INVITING YOU TO COME AND UNDERSTAND WHAT WE DO.
WE BROUGHT THE CITY VET HERE TO EXPLAIN AND ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THAT HORSES AREN'T EVERYBODY'S BEST FRIEND OR WORK PARTNER, SO COME FIND OUT ABOUT US, WE ALSO INTRODUCED. I BELIEVE YOU'VE ALL EMAILED COPIES OF REQUEST FOR NEW LOCA LOCATIONS FOR THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE DOWNTOWN AREA, THAT ARE A LOT OF THE CONCERNS FROM WHERE WE'RE CURRENTLY OPERATING FROM, AND IF YOU HAVEN'T RECEIVED THAT, WE HAVE COPIES WE CAN GIVE YOU TODAY, BUT WE ASK THAT YOU LOOK AT THAT.
>> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MS. STEVENS. NEXT, CHRIS DAVIS. >> I'D LIKE TO TAKE A
MOMENT FOR LISA BARNS, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT. >> I'D LIKE TO TAKE THE
MINUTES OF LISA BARNS IF THAT'S ALREADY. >> COURAGE: YES, LISA SIGNED UP
IF YOU WANT TO TAKE HER MINUTES, YOU'LL HAVE SIX MINUTES. >> YES. THANK YOU.
GOOD MORNING, THANK YOU FOR HEARING US, MY NAME IS CHRIS DAVIS, I'VE BEEN A CARRIAGE DRIVER DOWNTOWN FOR 12 YEARS. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME HERE. I KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO HEAR LONG SPEECHES FROM PASSIONATE PEOPLE, AND I'M ONE OF THEM. SO I HAVE TWO MAIN POINTS TODAY. ONE OF THEM IS THAT THIS CCR WAS INITIATED THROUGH MISINFORMATION, FALSE FACTS, AND A REFUSAL TO COMMUNICATE. WE HAVE TRIED TO EDUCATE, WE HAVE TRIED TO OPEN OUR BARNS AND OUR HEARTS TO SHOW PEOPLE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON. WE HOPE THAT WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED THAT. WE'VE AT LEAST MADE IN ROADS IN IT. WE WOULD LIKE TO URGE YOU TO PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR OWN CITY EXPERTS WITH THE EDUCATION AND THE EXPERIENCE AND THE AUTHORITY RATHER THAN THE HYSTERICAL MISINFORMATION FROM PEOPLE LOOKING FOR SOCIAL MEDIA CLICKS. IT'S A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT FOR SURE. WE ARE A PART OF THE PASSION AND THE HISTORY AND THE LOVE OF DOWNTOWN, AND I TRULY BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE FULLY PROVEN OUR LOVE AND OUR WELFARE FOR OUR HORSES. I DON'T NEED TO EXPOUND ON THAT ANYMORE.
[00:50:04]
I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THERE HAS BEEN REGULATIONS FOR IN PLACE FOR LONGER AND STRICTER FOR ANIMALS THAN THERE HAVE BEEN FOR CHILDREN.SO THE THING I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT IS WHAT I THINK IS PROBABLY MORE OF INTEREST TO YOU IS THE CONGESTION. BECAUSE THERE IS CONGESTION DOWNTOWN, NOBODY IS MORE AWARE OF IT THAN THE PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR WORKING HOURS NAVIGATING IT. WE ARE INTIMATELY AWARE OF THE EBB AND FLOW OF EVERY BIT OF TRAFFIC WHEN T THE MAJESTIC LETS OUT. WE ALL COMMUNICATE -- THEY I CAN'T TALK WITH MY HANDS BEHIND MY BACK.
SO WE COMMUNICATE, AVOID ST. MARY'S, COLLEGE STREET, WE KNOW WHEN THE LIGHTS ARE TIMED WRONG, CREATING MORE TRAFFIC INSTEAD OF LESS TRAFFIC, AGAIN, THERE'S ALTERNATE ROUTES, EVENTS HAPPENING, DON'T GO TRAVIS PARK. WE TRY TO AVOID THE TRAFFIC. TRAFFIC EXISTS WITHOUT US. WE HAVE 100 PICTURES OF CONGESTED STREETS WITHOUT A HORSE CARRIAGE IN SIGHT. THE CARRIAGES ARE NOT THE ONES CREATING THE CONGESTION. WE NAVIGATE TO AVOID IT. THERE ARE CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY UPSET ABOUT THE BUSES HAVING TO SHARE THE STREETS WITH US.
THE BUSES HAVE NOT HAD TO CHANGE THEIR SCHE SCHEDULES, THEIR VERY STRICT SCHEDULE, THEY HAVE TO PASS A HORSE CARRIAGE ON A BUSY STREET. IT'S OKAY. THEY PASS CARS THAT ARE PULLED OVER AND UBER DRIVERS THAT ARE PULLED OVER. UBER DRIVERS ARE KIND OF MY PET PEEVE BECAUSE THEY STOP IN THE MIDDLE OF ANYWHERE, IF ANYBODY IS CAUSING CONGESTION, IT'S YOUR UBER DRIVERS DOWNTOWN. 12 YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE, AND WE STARTED AT THE ALAMO, AND MANY OF YOU MAY REMEMBER THAT, WE WERE ALL AROUND THE ALAMO 10 YEARS AGO. THEY SAID WE WERE WAY TO CONGESTED, SPREAD OUT. WE REJOICED, WE LOVED IT, WE WERE ABLE TO SPREAD OUT, NAVIGATE MORE OF THE CITY, SERVE MORE OF THE CITY, NOT BE SO IN ONE AREA. AND IN THE LAST 1 Y 10 YEARS TIME, 5 YEARS TIME, THE CITY HAS CLOSED DOWN AROUND US, THEY'VE TAKEN AWAY EVERY SINGLE CARRIAGE STAND WITHOUT EXCEPTION. WE HAVE NOWHERE TO GO. WE ARE FUNNELED DOWN TO ONE TINY AREA. WE ARE NOT FIGHTING TO REMAIN EXACTLY AS WE ARE. WE ARE FIGHTING TO GO BACK TO WHAT WE USED TO BE, EXPANDED THROUGHOUT THE CITY, MULTIPLE LOCATIONS, LEGAL PARKING FOR US SO THAT WE CAN SAFELY CARE FOR OUR HORSES, GIVE THEM WATER, LOAD RIDES, TALK TO PEOPLE. WE ARE ASKING FOR THE ABILITY TO BE SAFE, BE LEGAL, BE SPREAD OUT, TO EASE OUR CONGESTION. NONE OF US LIKES TO NOT PULL -- TO PULL IN TO NOT HAVE PARKING, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE WORSE THINGS, THERE'S SIX PARKING SPOTS FOR 25 CARRIAGES, AND WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO DROP A RIDE WITH A GTU OFF AS THEY'RE STANDING THERE READY TO WRITE YOU A TICKET FOR PARKING ILLEGALLY AND YOU HAVE NOWHERE TO PARK YOUR RIDE, NO ONE WANTS THAT, WENT TO SPREAD OUT. SPEAKING OF GTU, I'M GOING TO CLOSE WITH THE TICKETS. YOU KNOW ONE OF THOSE UNPREPARED -- ONE UNFINISHED TICKETS WAITING TO BE PAID IS MINE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT I GOT A TICKET FOR? I DISCOUNTED A RIDE FOR A LARGE FAMILY. THAT'S WHAT OUR TICKET IS FOR. IF THIS IS A GREAT CRIME FOR TELLING A FAMILY OF EIGHT ADULTS YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE FULL PRICE, I'LL DO YOU A SOLID, I'LL TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOU, THAT'S ONE OF MY TICKETS, AND THAT'S ONE OF THOSE 20 TICKETS THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS WE DEAL WITH.
IT'S NOT ALL EVIL SITUATIONS. I HAVE NOTHING MORE TO ADD.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HEARING US TODAY. WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
KATIE GARCIA HERE? I THOUGHT THAT WAS LISA BARNS YOU TOOK. ANYWAYS, MS. GARCIA IS NOT HERE ANYWAYS, ROSE HILL IS HERE TO SPEAK WITH A GROUP. ROSE, YOU HAVE NINE MINUTES WITH YOUR
GROUP. >> THANK YOU, GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS, MY NAME IS ROSE MARIE HILL, PRESIDENT OF THE AND D2 ROUND TABLE WHICH CONSISTS OF 232 NEIGHBORHOODS HERE ON
[00:55:01]
THE EAST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO. I'VE BEEN A COMMUNITY LEADER FOR 35 YEARS. I'M HERE TODAY IN SUPPORT OF KEEPING THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE INDUSTRY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. THERE HAS BEEN FALSE INFORMATION AND ACCUSATIONS REGARDING THE MISTREATMENT OF THESE HORSES. I TAKE MY POSITION OF A LEADER SERIOUSLY, BEING A LEADER FOR 35 YEARS. I DO MY RESEARCH AND GIVE MY FACTS BEFORE I EVER SUPPORT OR STAND BEHIND AN ISSUE, SO, YES, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FACTS AND RESEARCH SHOW THAT THESE HORSES ARE FED WELL. THEY'RE PUT OUT IN THE PASTURE TO REST AND KEPT OUT OF THE HEAT WHEN IT GOES PAST 95 DEGREES. THESE HORSES ARE LOOKED AFTER BY A PROFESSIONAL VET. THEIR STALLS ARE ALWAYS KEPT CLEAN AND IN AN AIR-CONDITIONED FACILITY. THE WORKERS WHO HANDLE THE HORSES LOVE AND CARE JUST LIKE FAMILY. THE VET MADE A PUBLIC STATEMENT IN THE SUPPORT OF THESE HORSES. THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE BUSINESS HAS BEEN EXISTENCE SINCE 1865. THIS IS PART OF OUR HISTORY OF DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. NOW WE WANT TO REPLACE WITH ELECTRIC CARRIAGES, WE'RE MISSING THE TRUE MEANING OF THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE INDUSTRY. WHEN SOMEONE GETS MARRIED, THEY WANT TO STROLL DOWN IN A ROMANTIC FASHION WITH THEIR LOVED ONES TO SHARE THAT SPECIAL MOMENT AND THE BEAUTY THAT SAN ANTONIO DOWNTOWN AREA HAS TO OFFER. NO ONE WANTS TO SIT IN AN ELECTRICKED CONDITIONED CAR WITH A WINDOW ROLLED UP, MAKES NO SENSE. THE TOURISTS THAT COME TO SAN ANTONIO LOOK FOR A STROLL IN THE BEAUTIFUL CAROLINAS, WHAT IS THE REAL REASON WE WANT THEM GONE? I SAY FOLLOW THE MONEY. WHO WILL BENEFIT FINANCIALLY IF THEY'RE REMOVED. THE ANIMAL ACTIVISTS SAY THERE'S MISTREATMENT TO THE HORSES, THEN SHOW US THE PROOF. WORDS AND FALSE ACCUSATIONS TELL ME YOU HAVE NOT VISITED OR DONE YOUR HOMEWORK. AGAIN, HOW MANY OF THOSE WHO HAVE CLAIMED FALSE INFORMATION HAVE VISITED WITH THE OWNERS OR VISITED THEIR FACILITY. AS OF THIS DATE, ONLY ONE COUNCILMEMBER, MR. JOHN COURAGE, WHO I COMMEND, VISITED THE FACILITY. HOW COULD CITY COUNCIL PROPOSE TO SHUT THEM DOWN WHEN THEY HAVE NOT ALL VISITED, HAVE NOT ALL INVESTIGATED THE FACILITIES. WE TALK ABOUT PUBLIC PARTICIPATION, WE TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY. WHY HAVE THEY NOT SAT DOWN AT THE TABLE FOR A FULL DISCUSSION. OUR DISTRICT 2 LEADER. I REMEMBER YOUR EXACT WORDS TO ONE OF YOUR CAMPAIGN FORUM YOU ATTENDED YOU SAT AND TALKED AND SAID I WILL TALK, AND I WILL WORK WITH THE OWNERS OF THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE. YOU BROKE YOUR PROMISE. IF A COUNCILMAN IN DISTRICT 2 MAKES A PROMISE AND BREAKS IT, WHACK WE EXPECT. YOUR WORD IS YOUR BOND. TODAY I HUMBLY ASK EACH OF YOU TO SUPPORT THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE BUSINESS AND THOSE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO THAT LOVE AND APPRECIATE THOSE BEAUTIFUL HORSES AND THE TRUE MEANING OF THE HISTORY AND JOY THEY BRING SAN ANTONIO. IF WE SHUT THEM DOWN, WHAT ARE THE OTHER SMALL BUSINESSES OF SAN ANTONIO EXPECTING FROM THE CITY, WHAT SMALL BUSINESS COULD BE NEXT? WE TALK ABOUT -- THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TALKS ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. WE TALK ABOUT THE WORKFORCE COMMISSION. WE TALK ABOUT JOBS EVERY DAY WE TALK ABOUT JOBS. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THESE FAMILIES WHEN THEY LOSE THEIR JOBS? THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT THIS CITY COUNCIL IS GOING TO SAY THAT YOUR FAMILY WILL BE GUARANTEED A SALARY, YOUR FAMILY WILL BE GUARANTEED FOOD ON THE TABLE, YOUR FAMILY WILL BE GUARANTEED A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD. THERE'S NO GUARANTEE. IF YOU CAN PUT THAT IN PAPER, I WILL -- I WILL RETRACT ALL OF MY THINGS I SAID TODAY. THE CITY HAS TO PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH. WHEN SOMEONE GOES TO COURT, THEY HAVE TO DO DISCOVERY. THEY HAVE TO GATHER EVIDENCE, THEY HAVE TO GET PROOF IN ORDER TO PROVE THEIR CASE. WELL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND THE CITY COUNCIL, TODAY YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT. YOU HAVE NOT DONE DISCOVERY, YOU HAVE NOT GONE OUT AND TALKED TO THE PEOPLE AND VISITED THE FACILITY, YOU HAVE NOT GATHERED EVIDENCE, ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO SAY THAT THESE HORSES ARE BEING MISTREATED, AS WE'RE BEING TOLD AND AS WE'RE BEING SAID TODAY. CCRS, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, CAN BE PUT TO GREAT USE AND CAN BE MADE WONDERFUL -- MAKE THINGS HAPPEN WONDERFUL IN SAN ANTONIO, BUT IF YOU TAKE A CCR AND USE IT IN A WRONGFUL WAY WITH NO TRANSPARENCY, NO PUBLIC COMMUNICATION, AND TRY TO SHOVE IT DOWN THE THROATS OF THE CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO WITHOUT ANY KIND OF INPUT, THAT'S WRONG. WE -- SAN ANTONIO IS NOT ABOUT THAT. THE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO IS ABOUT THE PEOPLE, ABOUT THEIR VOICES. EACH ONE OF YOU SAY THAT YOU REPRESENT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS OR NEIGHBORHOODS, WELL, YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO ALL THE PEOPLE. I HEARD, YOU KNOW, A FEW HEARSAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE CITIZENS ARE AGAINST IT. I DON'T SPEAK FOR ALL THE CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO, I SPEAK FOR THE RESIDENTS IN MY AREA THAT I HEAR IN DISTRICT 2 SAY THAT THIS REPRESENTS A LOT TO THE PEOPLE OF SAN ANTONIO. WE WANT TO SEE THOSE JOBS, THOSE PEOPLE AND FAMILIES, CONTINUE TO WORK HARD, PROVIDE FOR THE FAMILIES AND ASK YOU, JUST, PLEASE, STEP BACK, STOP, LOOK, AND LISTEN. DON'T MAKE YOUR DECISION TODAY. GO AND VISIT THOSE FACILITIES, EACH ONE OF YOU, GO AND[01:00:02]
VISIT THEM. TALK WITH THEM. SEE FOR YOURSELVES BEFORE YOU GO MAKE A IRRATIONAL DECISION. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TEACHING OUR YOUTH TODAY IS TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS. WELL YOU -- ALL OF YOU CITY COUNCIL REPRESENT US AND DISTRICT 2. I HOPE THAT HE WILL CONSIDER IT -- COLD HEARTED CONSIDER WHAT PEOPLE IN DISTRICT 2 WANT TOO, A LOT OF THEM. SO TODAY I ASK EACH OF YOU, HUMBLY, STOP, LOOK, AND LISTEN, DON'T MAKE A RATIONAL DECISION WITHOUT GETTING YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. GO VISIT FACILITIES AND MAKE YOUR DECISION. IF YOU SEE THOSE HORSES ARE BEING HARMED, IF YOU SEE THOSE HORSES FALLING DOWN THE STREETS WITH SOMETHING WRONG, THEN I COULD SAY, YES, THEN SHUT THE HORSE INDUSTRY DOWN, BUT UNTIL YOU'VE DONE AND GOT ALL OF YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, PLEASE DON'T DO THAT, PLEASE TAKE THAT IN CONSIDERATION, AND PLEASE KEEP THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE BUSINESS GOING. THANK YOU.>> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MRS. HILL. NEXT SPEAKER IS MARIAH SMITH. YOU HAVE 3
MINUTES, MS. SMITH. >> OKAY. GOOD MORNING, COMMITTEE MEMBERS. MY NAME IS MARIAH SMITH, AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR HORSE CARRIAGE BAN FOR SOME YEARS NOW, AND I ADVOCATE FOR THINGS I BELIEVE WILL STRENGTHEN THE CITY. TODAY I'M IN SUPPORT OF A FULL BAN BECAUSE I BELIEVE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES ARE NOT ALIGNED WITH THE PROGRESSIVE NEEDS OF SAN ANTONIO. JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, THE CITY ANNOUNCED WE'RE RANKED NUMBER 1 IN THE NATION FOR RESIDENTIAL GROWTH.
UNFORTUNATELY WITH THIS GROWTH, IT'S LEFT TRANSPORTATION FALLING SHORT, SO WE REALLY MUST ADDRESS SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT ARE PREVENTING US FROM ATTAINING GOALS. TODAY THIS MEANS HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES, WHICH GOES AGAINST FORWARD THINKING PLANS WE ALL HAVE IN MIND FOR SAN ANTONIO. AS A PERSON WHO'S DOWN HERE EVERY WEEK MONITORING THESE CARRIAGES SINCE SAPD RIGHT-HAND, SINCE THEY CAN'T, I CAN SAY I'VE SEEN IT ALL. BUT ONE OF THE RELEVANT THINGS I BRING UP IS I CONTINUALLY WITNESS THESE CARRIAGES NOT ONLY HINDERING THE PUBLIC'S COMMUTE BUT THE OPERATIONAL EFFICIENCY OF VIA, SAPD AND ALL OTHER SERVICES FROM THEIR ABILITY TO PROPERLY AND EFFICIENTLY SERVE THE PUBLIC. WE WANT TO SUPPORT THE VISION OF VIA FOR A MORE VIBRANT AND MOBILE FUTURE AND HELP IMPROVE THE ROUTE AND DESTINATION TIMES. I HAVE MANY VIDEOS, AND I'VE SEEN FIRST HAND THESE CARRIAGES IRRITATE A LOT OF VIA BUS DRIVERS AND CAUSE A LOT OF EN ROUTE CHALLENGES FOR THEM. SO IF WE COULD DO SOMETHING TO CREATE A BETTER SERVICE THAT WILL IMPROVE RIDER EXPERIENCE AND HELP TRAVEL TIMES, I WOULD HOPE OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WOULD DO IT. I'M ALSO IN LOVE WITH THE KEEP SA MOVING INITIATIVE, AND I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE CITY HELP MOVE PEOPLE FASTER AND FARTHER AND START HERE BY THE BAN ON HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. IT'S UNDENIABLE THAT THE CARRIAGES DELAY THE COMMUTES AND DELAY LOCALS AND TOURISTS FROM TAKING CERTAIN ROUTES AND GOING INTO CERTAIN BUSINESSES. WE ALL KNOW THE ONGOING DOWNTOWN CONSTRUCTION HAS LEFT A DETRIMENTAL IMPACT ON BUSINESSES. THESE CARRIAGES ONLY ADD TO THE CONGESTION AROUND DYING, SMALL BUSINESSES AND DOING AWAY WITH THEM IS ONE STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO SUPPORTING REAL SMALLTOWN BUSINESSES THAT DON'T INVOLVE MISERABLE HORSES. TO CLARIFY, I HAVE NO DESIRE TO PUT ANYONE OUT OF BUSINESS, WHICH IS WHY I'M HAPPY TO ANNOUNCE WE'RE INCREDIBLY GRATEFUL TO HAVE A BRADY HUNTER FOUNDATION IN THE CORNER WHO IS WILLING TO PAY FOR THE FULL EXPENSES TO PROVIDE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES TO THESE COMPANIES AND TRANSFER THEM TO A HUMANE OPTION.
AND ALSO ALL THE HORSE OWNERS THAT WOULD TAKE IN THE FAMILY MEMBERS THEY'RE HOPING TO SLAUGHTER. IN SUMMARY, I SEE SO MUCH POTENTIAL FOR SAN ANTONIO, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE HORSE CARRIAGES ARE WITHHOLDING A LOT OF THAT POTENTIAL. IT'S 2024. NOT 1824. IT'S TIME TO EVOLVE AND LEAVE THE HORSE CARRIAGES TO THE STORK DAYS.
>> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MS. SMITH. THAT IS THE CONCLUSION OF THE SPEAKERS WHO HAVE SIGNED UP, HOWEVER, ONE OF OUR COUNCILMEMBERS SUBMITTED A STATEMENT, I'LL ASK THE CLERK TO
GO AHEAD AND READ THAT INTO THE RECORD. >> CLERK: STATEMENT IS FROM COUNCILWOMAN PHYLIS VIAGRAN. DISTRICT 3. I WANTED TO ADDRESS THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE REGARDING THE CCR I COAUTHORED WITH COUNCILMEMBER.
>> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: I TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THE DOWNTOWN SUMMERS, HEAT HIGHLAND EFFECT.
PUBLIC COMMENTS AND OUTREACH BY STAKEHOLDERS INITIATED DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE CARRIAGE COMPANIES, THE CITY, AND THE TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD TAB TO FIND POSITIVE SOLUTIONS FOR ALL PETERS INVOLVED. SINCE SUBMITTING THE CCR, I'VE SPOKEN WITH MY TAB REPRESENTATIVE,
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GEORGE GARCIA WHO INFORMED ME OF THE RECOMMENDATION. THEY SUGGESTED THAT THE CITY COUNCIL SHOULD KEEP THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES AND FOR CITY STAFF TO COLLABORATE WITH THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE INDUSTRY TO ESTABLISHING CONTINUES FOR CONTINUING ADDITIONALLY MY CHIEF OF STAFF HAS VISITED THE HORSE DRAWN PROVIDERS AND VISITED THE STABLES IN DISTRICT 2. DURING HIS VISIT I LEARNED ABOUT THE CARE PROVIDED FOR THE HORSES AND OPERATORS, INCLUDING ENSURING THAT NO HORSE WORKS TWO DAYS IN A ROW OR MORE THAN EIGHT HOURS A DAY. AS A LONG-STANDING ADVOCATE FOR SMALL MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES, I WANT TO WORK WITH THE FIVE COMPANIES THAT EMPLOY OVER 115 WORKERS COLLECTIVELY TO ENSURE THEY HAVE AS MANY OPTIONS AS POSSIBLE SUCH AS CONTINUING EDUCATION FOR THEIR STAFF THROUGH READY TO WORK OR FINDING CREATIVE WAYS FOR RIDERS, OPERATORS AND HORSES TO CONTINUE TO CO-EXIST IN THEIR DOWNTOWN FOOTPRINT. I UNDERSTAND THAT OUR ORDINANCE HAS SERVED AS A MODEL FOR OTHER CITIES ACROSS THE NATION, BUT WE CAN STILL DO BETTER.IN MY CONVERSATIONS I SHARED MY CONCERNS ABOUT SUMMER HEAT, VEHICLE EXHAUST, CONGESTION AND HOURS OF OPERATION, AS WELL AS ALTERNATIVE ROOTS.
THE HDC COMPANIES WERE OPEN TO MEETING AND HAVE PROPOSED ALTERNATIVES TO CHAPTER 33 ARTICLE 4 OF THE CITY ORDINANCE THAT I AM PLEASED WITH THE AMENDMENTS BUT BELIEVE WE NEED TO HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH ALL CITY COUNCIL AT A FUTURE B SESSION. AMENDMENTS INCLUDE: NUMBER 1, PHASING OUT DAY SHIFTS DURING THE WEEK EXCEPT ON HOLIDAYS. NUMBER 2, REDUCING HOURS FROM SEVEN P.M. TO ONE A.M. THAT ALLOWS DOWNTOWN TRAFFIC TO DIE DOWN.
KEEPING TEMPERATURE RESTRICTIONS AND GUIDELINES AS SPECIFIED IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE. I WOULD LIKE FOR MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES TO CONTINUE COLLABORATING WITH THE FIVE OPERATORS AND COULD BE NEW STRATEGIES THAT BENEFIT BOTH THE CITY, THE TAB AND THE OPERATORS, PHYLLIS VILLA GRAND, COUNCIL MEMBER.
>> COURAGE: AT THIS TIME WE'LL HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT OVERSEES THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE INDUSTRY.
THANK YOU. >> GOOD MORNING TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS RICK RILEY AND I'M THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND TODAY I'M GOING TO PROVIDE A BRIEFING ON THE CCR AND THE PURPOSE OF TODAY'S BRIEFING IS FOUR THINGS. ONE IS TO PROVIDE BACKGROUND OF CHAPTER 33 AND HOW SAPD ENFORCES HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE REGULATIONS. TWO IS TO PRESENT PRELIMINARY RESEARCH ON HOW OTHER CITIES HAVE ADDRESSED HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE OPERATION. THREE [INDISCERNIBLE] HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES.
AND FOUR, ASKING FOR COMMITTEE ACTION ON THE PROPOSED TIMELINE.
SO YOU WILL SEE THERE THE PRESENTATION OVERVIEW THAT I JUST COVERED AS PART OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO GET THROUGH TODAY. THE FIRST THING THERE IS THE COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY.
THIS WAS OFFERED BY COUNCIL MEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ AND COUNCIL MEMBER IN 2022.
THEY ASKED TO DEVELOP A PLAN TO PHASE OUT THE USE OF HORSES WITH HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES TO ABOL ORDINANCES OR POLICIES AS THEY RELATE TO CHAPTER 33 PERMITTING EQUINE DRAWN CARRIAGES. IN SIGHT OF THAT THERE WERE THREE SPECIFIC ASKS.
ONE, DETERMINE THE EVALUATE AND ESTABLISHMENT OF A PROGRAM TO SUPPORT A WORKFORCE TRANSITION FROM HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES TO EITHER ELECTRIC CARRIAGES OR PEDICABS. TWO, THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A PROHIBITION FOR HORSES TO BE USED FOR CARRIAGE RIDES. AND THREE, THE IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF THE ISSUANCE OF ALL NEW HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGESE PERMITS. THE CCR WAS HEARD AT THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE ON APRIL 17TH, 2024, AND REFERRED HERE TO THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE. HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE ORDINANCES ARE GOVERN BY THE CITY CODE. AND AS MENTIONED THE CITY HAS ISSUED PERMITS TO THE HORSE DRAWN INDUSTRY SINCE 1865.
CURRENTLY THERE ARE 65 HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE COMPANIES EACH FOR A TOTAL OF 25 WORKING IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO THAT ALLOW 81 PERMITTED HORSE DRAWN DRIVERS. THE GROUND TRANSPORTATION UNIT, A UNIT WITHIN THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT, IS TASKED WITH ENFORCING THOSE REGULATIONS AND MONITORING THE OPERATIONS. SOME OF THOSE REGULATIONS, AND YOU HEARD IT MENTIONED, ARE THE SERVICE REGULATIONS.
THOSE INCLUDE THAT CARRIAGES SHALL NOT OPERATE WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IS ABOVE
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95 DEGREES. AND THE CARRIAGE OPERATIONS ARE SUSPENDED FROM 12:00 P.M. TO 8:30 P.M. ON AIR QUALITY HEALTH ALERT DAYS. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HORSE WELFARE, AS WAS MENTIONED, ALL HORSES MUST BE LICENSED BY THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICES AND EXAMINED BY A VETERINARIAN EVERY SIX MONTHS.THEY'RE REQUIRED TO BE OFFERED WATER AND GIVEN A 10 MINUTE BREAK BETWEEN TRIPS.
THEY CANNOT WORK MORE THAN EIGHT HOURS DURING A 24 HOUR PERIOD AND REQUIRE AT LEAST 16 HOURS OF CONTINUOUS REST. AND A HORSE IS DEEMED UNFIT IF THEY HAVE LAMENESS, OPEN SORES, WOUNDS, DEHYDRATION, EXHAUSTION, ET CETERA.
HORSES MUST BE AT LEAST 300 POUNDS TO WORK IN THE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY.
SOME OF THE REGULATIONS REGARDING THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES IS THEY MAY NOT OPERATE OUTSIDE AN AREA OF TWO MILES FROM CITY A HALL. IT GOES DOWN TO KING WELL AND UP TO TOBIN HILL, THAT AREA. THIS SLIDE HELPS SUMMARIZE THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT I TALKED ABOUT, THE FIRST BEING THE TWO-MILE RADIUS OUTSIDE OF CITY HALL. HORSES ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING ON CERTAIN STREETS WITHIN THE CITY. THE FIRST BEING HOUSTON BETWEEN FLORES AND SOUTH ALAMO, SO THAT'S THAT AREA IN FRONT OF THE MAJESTIC THEATER. LOIS IS A AS IT'S A ONE WAY STREET.
COMMERCE EXCEPT FOR ROUTES TO AND FROM THE BARN. AND CESAR CHAVEZ BETWEEN I-10 AND I-35. THERE IS A RESTRICTION FOR HORSES IN THE KING WILLIAM DISTRICT. NO HORSE CARRIAGE CAN OPERATE AFTER 10H30:00 P.M.
SEVEN DAYS A WEEK AND ON SUNDAY NO HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE IN THE KING WILLIAM DISTRICT BEFORE 12:00. THE HOURS OF OPERATION, I APOLOGIZE FOR THE MISPRINT ON THE SLIDE, IT'S MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, NINE TO 4:00, AND THEN A BREAK TO ALLOW CONGESTION OF DOWNTOWN TO TRY TO CLEAR OUT. AND IT'S ACTUALLY 6:00 P.M.
TO 2:00 P.M. MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY. AND SATURDAY, SUNDAYS AND HOLIDAYS IT'S CONTINUOUS FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 2:00 A.M.
THE RATES THAT YOU SEE THERE ARE SET BY THE -- PROPOSED BY THE CARRIAGE COMPANY AND THEN THE CHIEF OF POLICE APPROVES THOSE RATES. AND AS WAS TALKED ABOUT STAGING AREAS OR CARRIAGE STANDS AS THEY'RE KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY, RIGHT NOW ANY UNOCCUPIED COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
THE PRIMARY LOCATION IS THAT COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE ON CROCKETT ACROSS FROM THE HARD ROCK CAFE. WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE GROUND TRANSPORTATION UNIT WITHIN OF SAPD. THE GROUND TRANSPORTATION UNIT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL VEHICLES FOR HIRE. THAT INCLUDES YOUR TAXICABS, YOUR TOUR BUSES, YOUR ELECTRIC VEHICLES, OBVIOUSLY THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE. THERE'S ONE SUPERVISOR AND THREE TRANSPORTATION INSPECTORS. THEY CONDUCT RANDOM FIELD INSPECTIONS ON ALL PERMITTED VEHICLES. YOU SEE THEIR SCHEDULE THERE. YOU SEE THE NUMBER OF CITATIONS, 119 FOR VIOLATION OF SPECIFICALLY HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE RULES ISSUED OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS AND THROUGH THE END OF MAY. JUST TO GIVE YOU KIND OF AN IDEA OF WHAT EACH OF THOSE CITATION TYPES MEAN, TRAFFIC-RELATED IS UTILIZING AN UNAUTHORIZED STREET, ROLLING THROUGH A STOP SIGN. DRIVER CONDUCT CAN BE ANYTHING FROM UNPROFESSIONAL CONDUCT TO THE DRIVER TO THE DRIVER DOESN'T HAVE THEIR TEXAS DRIVER'S LICENSE WITH THEM. CARRIAGE, FOCUSED ON THE CARRIAGE. YOU'VE GOT A LOOSE WHEEL, YOU HAVE LIGHTS THAT ARE INOPERABLE OR NOT INSTALLED. THE DIAPER BAG STREET, IT'S NOT AFFIXED CORRECTLY TO CATCH THAT SOLID WASTE OR THEY'RE NOT CLEANING THE STREETS. UNINTENDED CARRIAGE WHILE THE CARRIAGE IS IN THE STAND, THE DRIVER IS REQUIRED TO HAVE HOLD OF THE REINS OF THE HORSE SO THE HORSE DOESN'T BOLT. AND OVERLOADING OF CARRIAGE IN SAN ANTONIO THE MAXIMUM NUMBER IS 14, THAT'S 13 RIDERS PLUS THE DRIVER. SO IF YOU PUT MORE THAN 14 IN THAT CARRIAGE YOU MAY RECEIVE A CITATION FOR AN OVERLOADED CARRIAGE.
THE NEXT AREA THAT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IS COMPARABLE CITIES AND WE'LL START IN TEXAS WITH THE CITY OF DALLAS. HERE THE PERMIT HOLDER MUST FURNISH A CERTIFICATE IDENTIFYING THE HORSE BY A DESCRIPTION OR PHOTOGRAPH AND THAT THE HORSE HAS BEEN EXAMINED WITHIN THE PROCEEDING MONTHS BY A LICENSED VETERINARIAN SPECIALIZING IN EQUINE MEDICINE.
HORSE WELFARE IN THE CITY OF DALLAS IS VERY SIMILAR WITH SOME VARIATIONS TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. FOR EXAMPLE, IN DALLAS THEY HAVE TO BE OFFERED NOT LESS THAN FIVE GALLONS OF DRINKING WATER AT LEAST EVERY TWO HOURS.
AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST A 10-MINUTE REST PERIOD AFTER EVERY 50 MINUTES WORKED. IN DALLAS THEY ALLOW THEIR HORSES TO WORK EIGHT HOURS IN A 24 HOUR PERIOD WITH A 12-HOUR REST. AND MUCH LIKE SAN ANTONIO, DALLAS HAS THE PROHIBITION ABOUT WORKING WHEN THE OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE IN DALLAS' CASE EXCEEDS 99 DEGREES OR THAT HEAT INDEX EXCEEDS 150 DEGREES.
RECENTLY THE CITY OF DALLAS BRIEFED THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE ARTS AND CULTURE COMMITTEE TWICE IN THE LAST FIVE MONTHS, SIX MONTHS. DECEMBER OF 2023 AND THEN
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CAME BACK AGAIN IN APRIL OF 2024. IN APRIL OF 2024 THE QUALITY OF LIFE ARTS AND CULTURE COMMITTEE [INDISCERNIBLE] HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES AND LOOKING FOR ALTERNATIVE MECHANICAL OR ELECTRICAL CARRIAGE OPERATIONS.HOWEVER, THE COMMITTEE DID ASK CITY STAFF TO COME BACK WITH ANOTHER PRESENTATION ON HOW THE CITY CAN WORK TO INCORPORATE ALTERNATIVE CARRIAGES ON THE ROADS.
ANOTHER COMPARABLE CITY TO SAN ANTONIO IS THE CITY OF AUSTIN WHERE THEY HAVE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE OPERATIONS. AND HERE A PERMIT HOLDER HAS TO FURNISH A LETTER FROM THE LICENSED VETERINARIAN 90 DAYS PRIOR TO THE ANIMAL IS GOING TO BE USED IS TO PROVIDE THE SERVICE BEING USED. AGAIN, HORSE WELFARE, SIMILAR TO SAN ANTONIO WITH A FEW VARIATIONS. HERE THEY CAN -- IN AUSTIN NO MORE THAN ONE HOUR OF WORK WITHOUT A 10-MINUTE REST PERIOD.
THEY CAN ONLY WORK THREE CONSECUTIVE HOURS WITHOUT A CONTINUOUS ONE-HOUR REST PERIOD. THEY CAN WORK SIX HOURS A DAY FOR FIVE CONSECUTIVE DAYS. AND THEN A 24-HOUR REST PERIOD BEFORE THEIR NEXT WORKING DAY. AND AUSTIN, LIKE SAN ANTONIO, HAS THE PROHIBITION WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IS REPORTED TO BE ABOVE 95 DEGREES, THEY CAN ONLY WORK FOR TWO HOURS AT A TIME AND THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK WHEN THE TEMPERATURE DROPS BELOW 30 DEGREES. ADDITIONALLY THERE ARE SIMILAR REGULATIONS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES ON CARRIAGE OPERATIONS.
AS I MENTIONED, SOME PRELIMINARY RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THAT IN INDIANAPOLIS, FOR EXAMPLE, NO HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE ON THE ROAD DURING THE RUSH HOUR PERIOD, SIX A.M. TO NINE A.M. AND AGAIN THREE TO 6:00. IN SAN ANTONIO WE DON'T START UNTIL 9:00 AND THEN OBVIOUSLY WE ARE OFF BETWEEN 4:00 AND 6:00.
OKLAHOMA CITY THERE IS INTERESTINGLY NO REGULATION ON THE REST PERIODS OR MAXIMUM WORK HOURS PER DAY. AND IN NEW YORK CITY HORSES CAN ONLY WORK FOR NINE HOURS IN ANY CONTINUOUS 24 HOUR PERIOD WITH A REST PERIOD OF 15 MINUTES FOR EVERY TWO PULLING HOURS. AND IN NEW YORK CITY, THEY ALSO HAVE THE TEMPERATURE PROHIBITION WHEN THE TEMPERATURE REACHES A HIGH OF 90 OR A LOW OF 18 DEGREES HORSES ARE PROHIBITED FROM WORKING. THIS SLIDE PROVIDES A SUMMARY OF ALL OF THOSE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT I'VE TALKED ABOUT.
I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE REST PERIOD AND WORK MAXIMUM FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, WE ARE THE STRICTEST ON HOW LONG A HORSE CAN WORK AND HOW LONG A HORSE MUST REST. SO YOU SEE THERE EIGHT HOURS PER DAY WITH 16 HOURS OF REST. AND WE PROVIDE 10-MINUTE BREAKS ACCORDING TO OUR ORDINANCE AFTER EVERY TRIP. AND YOU CAN SEE THERE DALLAS IS AN EIGHT-HOUR DAY AND 12 HOURS OF REST. AND YOU CAN GO DOWN, NEW YORK IT'S NINE HOURS PER DAY, AUSTIN HAS THE SIX HOURS FOR FIVE CONSECUTIVE DAYS. SO IT GIVES YOU A COMPARISON OF TEMPERATURE RESTRICTIONS AND THEN SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS AS WELL. WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT HORSE CARRIAGE BANS RECENTLY. SO THIS BEGAN IN POM PAN KNOW BEACH, FLORIDA IN 1993. IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST IN MY PRELIMINARY RESEARCH THAT WE WERE ABLE TO FIND AND IT HAS MOVED ALL THE WAY MOST RECENTLY TO CHICAGO, ILLINOIS IN 2021 TO BAN HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE. THERE ARE CITIES THAT ARE CONSIDERING BANS RIGHT NOW. I MENTIONED DALLAS IS ONE, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA IS ANOTHER. SO IF WE HAVE TO MOVE AWAY FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE ALTERNATIVES? WELL, THE FIRST ONE IS YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT THE ELECTRICAL HORSELESS CARRIAGES.
IT REPLACES THE HORSE WITH A MECHANICAL PROPULSION, CURRENTLY BEING TESTED IN PHILADELPHIA AND IT'S CURRENTLY OPERATING IN MATADOR, FLORIDA.
IT'S A CUSTOM MADE CARRIAGE. AND THEY ARE WORKING IN GUADALAJARA AS WELL. ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE ABOUT THE HORSELESS CARRIAGE IS ROAD WORTHINESS. AND THAT'S SOME OF THE RESEARCH THAT WE'RE GOING TO PROPOSE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR IN MY TIMELINE COMING UP. AS WAS MENTIONED, THE TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD MET ON MAY 22ND AND PUBLIC COMMENT INCLUDED ALL OF THE OWNERS OF THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE INDUSTRY COMING AS WELL AS THEIR DRIVERS, SOME OF THEIR MANAGERS AND OTHERS TO SPEAK. AND AT THAT TIME AS YOU HEARD FROM COUNCIL MEMBER VILLAGÓMEZ, AS YOU HEARD FROM THIS COMMITTEE, THE TAB UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED THAT THE CITY COUNCIL CONSIDER KEEPING THE HORSE HAPPEN DRAWN CARRIAGES IN DOWNTOWN AND WORK WITH THE INDUSTRY TO SET CONDITIONS TO CONTINUE HORSE CARRIAGE SERVICE IN DOWNTOWN. SO THE TIMELINE.
WE'RE HERE TODAY AT FIRST BRIEFING. WHAT WE HAVE PROPOSED IS THROUGHOUT JUNE TO CONTINUE OUR RESEARCH ON OTHER CITIES' OPERATIONS AND REGULATIONS. MOVING INTO JUNE AND JULY IS TO TAKE AND PRESENT THIS AS ISSUED TO THE ASC ADVISORY BOARD. MEET WITH STAKEHOLDERS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH OF JULY AND THEN COME BACK TO THIS COMMITTEE IN AUGUST TO BRIEF
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ON THE FINDINGS OF THE ACS BOARD FEEDBACK AND THE STAKEHOLDER INPUT.WE'RE LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK TODAY FROM THE COMMITTEE AND THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS ON THE SCOPE OF THE CCR AND OUR PROPOSED TIMELINE TO ADDRESS THE CCR THAT CONCLUDES MY BRIEFING AND I'M AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
>> COURAGE: THANK YOU. I'LL OPEN IT UP NOW TO COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
COUNCILMAN MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: THANK YOU, CHAIR.
I WOULD LIKE TO THANK STAFF FOR THE EFFORT THEY PUT FORWARD IN RESEARCHING AND THE BRIEFING. I WOULD ESPECIALLY LIKE TO THANK ALL THE RESIDENTS, HORSE CARRIAGE COMPANIES AND ADVOCATES WHO TOOK TIME TO SHARE THEIR FEEDBACK TODAY.
I AM THANKFUL WE ARE FINALLY HAVING THIS DISCUSSION AND I AM THANKFUL FOR THE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION ON IMPORTANT ISSUES BEFORE US TODAY. I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE, DR. ESPEY THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
IT'S NOT THE CITY THAT IS CONTRACTED ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
WE DO NOT HAVE AN ANNUAL CONTRACT. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO GO TO SLIDE 17 REAL QUICK. SO I'M LOOKING AT THIS TIMELINE AND FIRST BIT OF FEEDBACK IS GOING TO BE, WELL, QUESTION IS GOING TO BE HAVE WE IMPLEMENTED A BAN
ON HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES? >> NO, SIR. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: SO WE'RE ABOUT TO ENGAGE IN WHAT WE'VE HAD AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC ON A NUMBER OF TIMES OF WHICH THERE HAVE BEEN PLENTY INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE COME OUT AND SPOKEN. THIS IS THE PUBLIC INPUT PROCESS.
THIS IS WHAT THE CCR CALLS FOR AND THIS IS WHAT A CCR DOES SO I DID WANT TO CLEAR UP THAT CONFUSION ON WHAT A CCR DOES AND THE FACT THAT THERE ARE QUESTIONS OF WHETHER OR NOT CCRS ARE TRANSPORT OR IF WE'VE HAD -- TRANSPARENT OR IF WE'VE HAD A PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT PROCESS. THIS IS THAT, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC TO COME OUT AND SPEAK, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DIFFERENT COUNCIL MEMBERS TO GIVE THEIR FEEDBACK AND FOR US TO GIVE DIRECTION TO STAFF BASED ON ALL THE FEEDBACK THAT THEY'VE HEARD OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS SINCE THE -- ONE AND A HALF YEARS SINCE THE CCR WAS FIRST FILED. I'LL ALSO REFLECT A LITTLE BIT ON MY LAST CAMPAIGN AND I FORGET WHAT TIME THAT SOUTHWEST PREP CAMPAIGN FORUM WAS, BUT I REMEMBER IMMEDIATELY AFTER -- AND THAT FORUM BECAME LARGELY ABOUT THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT, MEDIA OUTLETS HAD REPORTED ON IT, I BEGAN RECEIVING A BUNCH OF CALLS FROM MY CONSTITUENTS WHO ARE SAYING THANK YOU. WHO WERE SAYING THANK YOU FOR INITIATING THIS CONVERSATION. I AGREE, IT WAS OVERWHELMING. AND I DO WANT TO CHALLENGE THE FACT THAT YOU THINK, MS. HILL, RESPECTFULLY, THAT I DON'T REPRESENT MY CONSTITUENCY AND I'LL -- I'LL NAME IT. I WON A PLURALITY OF EVERY SINGLE PRECINCT IN THE DISTRICT, EVEN WITH THIS BEING A MAJOR ISSUE AT THE TIME WITH PROP 8 BEING A MAJOR ISSUE AT THE TIME. SO I JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT.
LAST WEEK I MET WITH TWO OPERATORS TO HEAR THEIR FEEDBACK AND CONSIDERATION.
I ALSO MET WITH MY TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD MEMBER.
AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THEIR WILLINGNESS TO SPEAK WITH ME, PROVIDE THEIR HEARTFELT PERSPECTIVE AND TO OFFER COMPROMISES AND TO ASK A QUESTION OF WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE. AND I'VE GIVEN THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION TO MANY COMPROMISE SCENARIOS AND ALTERNATIVES. HOWEVER, IN MY HEART AND WHAT I BELIEVE IS IT'S CLEAR THAT WE DO NEED TO MOVE AWAY FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES ON CITY STREETS ALTOGETHER. I READ AN ARTICLE WHERE SOMEONE REPRESENTING A ZONING CASE FOR AN OPERATOR SAID IF IT'S AN ISSUE OF HOW WE OPERATE WE CAN FIX THAT.
BUT IF -- AND IT'S AS CLOSE TO A QUOTE AS I CAN GET. IF THEY JUST DON'T WANT US HERE, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT. AND THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT WE HAVE TO ANSWER IS AT A CERTAIN POINT WHEN DO WE -- WHEN DO -- WHEN DOES THE EXISTENCE OF HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES OPERATING DOWNTOWN CLASH WITH THE CHANGING CULTURE OF SAN ANTONIO? AND I'LL ACKNOWLEDGE IN 1865 WAS WHEN WE FIRST STARTED ISSUING THE PERMITS FOR THE HORSES, 1865 WAS ALSO THE SAME YEAR THAT ENSLAVED PEOPLE IN TEXAS WERE FINALLY NOTIFIED OF THEIR FREEDOM. IT IS A CHANGING TIME.
AND I DON'T NEED A REMINDER OF 1865. THAT'S NOT NOSTALGIA TO ME.
SO I JUST WANT TO CHALLENGE THAT. I STILL STAND BEHIND THE ORIGINAL INTENTION AND FOCUS OF THE CCR, WHICH BEARS REPEATING.
A JUST TRANSITION FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. THIS MEANS WE TAKE THE TIME TO ENGAGE FOLKS WHO WILL BE IMPACTED BY THIS DECISION AND WE CREATE AVENUES TO REDUCE NEGATIVE IMPACTS AND INCREASE THE POTENTIAL FOR THEIR ONGOING SUCCESS IN THE NEW ENVIRONMENT. THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ENGAGE THE STAKEHOLDERS, ENGAGE THE OPERATORS, AND I UNDERSTAND RIGHT NOW WHERE THE OPERATORS ARE IS NOT A BAN. NO INDUSTRY IS EVER GOING TO SAY YES, WE WANT YOU TO BAN OUR INDUSTRY. BUT HOW WE GET THERE I THINK MATTERS AND I THINK WE CAN GET THERE BY PROVIDING AS MUCH SUPPORT AS WE CAN. AND I KNOW THERE'S
[01:25:03]
CONTENTION ON WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. BUT AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE ALREADY EXPECTED TO HIT TRIPLE DIGIT TEMPERATURES THIS WEEK, JUST THE FIRST WEEK OF JUNE, IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE ENSURE ALL OUR RESIDENTS, INCLUDING THE ANIMALS, ARE TAKEN CARE OF AND OUT OF HARM'S WAY. OTHER CITIES HAVE HAD SUCCESS MOVING AWAY FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, WITH ELECTRIC VEHICLES OR OTHER MODES OF OPERATION. I KNOW WE'VE MENTIONED BEFORE INTEREST IN SEEING PART OF THAT TRANSITION CAN BE OPERATION AT CITY PARKS LIKE BRACKENRIDGE.AND I KNOW THERE'S CONTENTION ON WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE AND HOW MUCH SUPPORT THERE IS, BUT THE DIRECTION I WOULD GIVE TO STAFF IS TO BEGIN DOING DUE DILIGENCE ON WHAT A JUSTICE TRANSITION PROCESS IS AND TO STAKEHOLDERS ON WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. AND AT THE AUGUST MEETING I WOULD APPRECIATE IF WE HAD A DRAFT OF WHAT A PLAN COULD LOOK LIKE SO WE COULD OFFER FEEDBACK ON WHAT THAT WOULD
BE. THANK YOU, CHAIR. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, COUNCIL MEMBER. NEXT, COUNCIL MEMBER HAVRDA.
>> HAVRDA: THANK YOU. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE THAT THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES ARE ONE OF THE REMAINING CUSTOMS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR CITY FROM THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR. SOME PEOPLE THINK IT'S TIME WE LEFT THAT PRACTICE BEHIND AND I'LL TELL YOU THAT I AGREE WITH THEM. I'VE HEARD ALL THE CONSIDERATIONS AND MY THINKING IS THAT OUR CITY SHOULD MOVE BEYOND THIS PRACTICE. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES TO SATISFY THE TOURISTS WHO COME HERE LOOKING FOR UNIQUELY SAN ANTONIO EXPERIENCE, LIKE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES MENTIONED TODAY. AND I MEAN, I JUST WANT TO SPEAK REAL QUICK TO OUR ORDINANCE THAT'S BEEN SAID A NUMBER OF TIMES, AND IN THE PRESENTATION WE HAVE MAYBE THE BEST ORDINANCE OUT THERE. BUT HAVING THE BEST ORDINANCE ON SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING AT ALL IS OF VERY LITTLE COMFORT.
SO HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, I DO WANT TO SAY I GREW UP RIDING HORSES.
I HAVE A LOT OF PASSION FOR HORSES. I DON'T DOUBT IN ANY WAY THAT ANY OPERATOR, BUSINESS OWNERS HERE FEELS THE SAME WAY AND HAS THE SAME AFFECTION AND CARE FOR THE ANIMALS UNDER THEIR CARE. I DO HAVE A CONCERN BECAUSE THEY'RE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS ABOUT HOW THEY'RE TRANSITIONING AWAY, IF THAT'S THE CASE FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES AND HOW WE CAN HELP THOSE BUSINESSES. I THINK ONE OF THE SPEAKERS HERE EVEN MENTIONED SOME POTENTIAL ALTERNATIVES. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHEN WE COME BACK IN AUGUST THAT'S A BIG PART OF THE DATA AND THE INFORMATION WE WANT YOU TO COLLECT.
I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION -- A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE -- I GUESS DR. ESPEY MENTIONED THAT HE'S -- THAT HE'S THE CITY VETERINARIAN FOR THE DRAFTHOUSES.
CAN YOU TELL ME DOES HE JUST WORK WITH THE HORSES? >> HE'S GOING TO BE THE ONE
TO ANSWER THAT. >> HAVRDA: OKAY. >> HAVRDA: YOU MENTIONED YOU WERE THE CITY VETERINARIAN FOR THE HORSES.
>> YES. IN 2011 THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICES VETERINARIAN WAS PROVIDING THE CARRIAGE INSPECTION. AND FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. AND THERE WERE SOME COMPLAINTS FROM INSIDE --
>> HAVRDA: I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. I'M SORRY, I HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME. I WAS JUST ASKING WHAT KIND OF YOUR ROLE IS WITH THE
CITY. >> OKAY. I GUESS I'LL ALSO ANSWER COUNCIL PERSON RODRIGUEZ' COMMENT. I AM THE ONLY EQUINE VETERINARIAN THAT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO USES TO INSPECT HORSES.
>> HAVRDA: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. SO MY CONCERN IS -- AND I APPRECIATE WHAT YOU SAID, BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THAT POSITION WITH THE CITY ANYMORE.
I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, THANK YOU. SO MY CONCERN IS LOOKING FOR OBJECTIVE VETERINARIAN EVIDENCE, SOMEBODY THAT CAN TALK TO US ABOUT -- GO OUT, AS MS. HILL MENTIONED, GO OUT TO THEM AND DO KIND OF AN OBJECTIVE, NOT WITHIN THE CITY, NOT WITHIN ANYBODY THAT HAS ANY INTEREST IN IT AND LOOKING AT THESE CONDITIONS. BECAUSE I DO APPRECIATE THAT SOME COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE GONE OUT THERE, AND I CAN GO OUT THERE AND I KNOW HORSES, BUT I CAN'T -- I'M NOT A VETERINARIAN AND I CAN'T TELL THEM THIS IS IN COMPLIANCE OR THE HEALTH OF THE ANIMAL. SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO LOOK FOR OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE AS WE MOVE INTO THE AUGUST MEETING.
THEN LASTLY ON SLIDE -- I THINK IT WAS SLIDE 14, CAN YOU TELL ME WHY IN THOSE CITIES -- THAT THE ORDINANCES WERE -- I'M SORRY, THE CARRIAGES WERE
BANNED? >> THAT'S PART OF OUR PRELIMINARY RESEARCH, COUNCILWOMAN. WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT FAR YET.
IT'S KIND OF A RESEARCH THAT WE CAN DO ON THE INTERNET RIGHT NOW, WHERE HAVE THEY
[01:30:02]
BEEN BANNED. IT'S -- THE REASONS ARE INNUMERABLE AND IF I STARTED TO LIST THEM OFF THEY MIGHT APPLY TO CITY A OR NOT CITY F OR CITY G.THAT'S PART OF THE ADDITIONAL RESEARCH THAT I WOULD ASK SOME TIME TO
CONDUCT TO PROVIDE TO THIS BODY IN AUGUST. >> HAVRDA: OKAY.
SO THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE I WAS GOING. I'D LIKE TO SEE WHY THEY WERE BANNED, BECAUSE THIS IS BEYOND -- WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF IT HERE TODAY.
IT'S BEYOND THE CARE OF THE ANIMALS OR THE SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRAFFIC, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONDITIONS OF THE ROAD, ALL KINDS OF THINGS. SO I THINK THAT INFORMATION IS GOING TO BETTER INFORM ALL OF US MOVING FORWARD. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT AUGUST MEETING.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU, CHAIR. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU,
COUNCILWOMAN. COUNCILWOMAN GAVITO? >> GAVITO: THANK YOU,RY FOR THIS PRESENTATION AND THANK YOU TO ALL OF THE SPEAKERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE THAT ARE HERE WITH US TODAY FOR SHARING YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINION.
I AM A SUPPORTER OF SMALL BUSINESSES A AND THE IDEA OF PUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF WORK IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M PARTICULARLY FOUND OF. AT THE SAME TIME I DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES THAT CAN COME UP AND THE WELFARE OF THESE ANIMALS. SOME SPECIFIC CONCERNS I HAVE ABOUT THE CARRIAGES INCLUDE VIDEOS OF SEEING THE HORSES TRY TO RUN RED LIGHTS, CONCERNS FROM THE HORSES BECOMING DEHYDRATED IN THE TEXAS HEAT, THE IMPACTS THAT CARRIAGES HAVE ON TRAFFIC, AND ALSO, TOO, THEIR POTENTIAL IMPACT ON FIRST RESPONDER VEHICLES TRYING TO GET THROUGH DOWNTOWN, WHICH WE ALL KNOW IS TRICKY.
THE BEST CASE SCENARIO HERE WOULD BE SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE THAT DOESN'T COMPLETELY DEVASTATE BUSINESS OWNERS, BUT THAT ALSO DOESN'T COMPROMISE PUBLIC SAFETY AND ANIMAL SAFETY AS WELL. I DO ECHO COUNCILMAN MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ'S COMMENT ABOUT A PLAN SO THAT WE CAN REVIEW IN AUGUST ON WHAT A TRANSITION LOOKS LIKE. IF WE DO END UP PHASING THE CARRIAGES OUT, I WANT TO ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A PLAN NO IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT THE HORSES ARE ACCOUNTED FOR AND DON'T GET PUT DOWN. THAT'S A PRIORITY. I DO HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU, RICK. HAVE WE CONSIDERED OTHER ALTERNATE LOCATIONS WHERE THESE CARRIAGES AND THE HORSES COULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE? I'VE HEARD BRACKENRIDGE A COUPLE OF TIMES. HAVE WE EXPLORED ANY OTHER
POTENTIAL? >> COUNCILWOMAN, WE HAVE. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT BRACKENRIDGE PARK. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE SOUTH TOWN AREA AROUND HEMISFAIR PARK, MAYBE THAT HELPS RELIEF SOME OF THE SUGGESTION.
AND THE PEARL AREA AS WELL THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT. BUT THOSE ARE ALL VERY MINOR IN THE ECONOMIC STUDIES FOR THE CARRIAGE OPERATORS THEMSELVES.
>> THAT'S HELPFUL. ARE THERE ANY REPORTS OF ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE
CARRIAGES EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY? >> SO NO ACCIDENTS, PER SE, IN THE RECENT PAST. THERE HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST WHERE A HORSE HAS HIT A CAR DOOR OPENING OR SOMETHING TO THAT NATURE, BUT NOTHING THAT HAS CAUSED SERIOUS
BODILY INJURY. >> GAVITO: OKAY. THAT'S HELPFUL, THANKS.
AND WHEN WE ARE RESEARCHING THE OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE BANNED IT, COULD WE RESEARCH THE OUTCOMES TO THE BUSINESS OWNERS AND HORSES AND SEEING HOW THEY WERE ABLE TO TRANSITION OUT? I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR US TO SEE.
ONE OF THE OTHER CONCERNS I HAD WAS ON SLIDE 8 TO SEE THE NUMBER OF CITATIONS OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS. I DID NOTICE THAT HUGE SPIKE FROM 2022-2023.
IS THIS DUE TO MORE ENFORCEMENT OR IS THERE ANOTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTOR
HERE? >> I THINK ONE OF THE CONTRIBUTING FACTORS, AND DATA DOESN'T SUPPORT THIS, IS THAT THERE'S ONE CARRIAGE LOADING ZONE.
AND THEY'RE KIND OF AN EASY TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY FOR MY INSPECTORS TO GO OUT AND GO, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, AND WRITE THOSE CITATIONS, WHERE TAXICABS ARE CIRCULATING THE CITY, ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE CIRCULATING THE CITY, IT MAY BE A LITTLE TOUGHER TO CATCH THOSE IN A STAGNANT, STANDING STILL POSITION TO INSPECT THOSE THINGS.
>> GAVITO: THAT MAKES SENSE, THANK YOU. AND CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT
SOME OF THE TRAFFIC-RELATED VIOLATIONS WOULD BE? >> SO TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS MAY BE RUNNING A RED LIGHT, TROTTING THROUGH A TRAFFIC SIGNAL, BEING ON AN UNAUTHORIZED STREET. SO IF YOU'RE ON HOUSTON STREET IN THOSE AREAS WHERE
YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. >> GAVITO: OKAY. THAT'S HELPFUL.
THANK YOU. ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN I WAS MEETING WITH SOME OF THE BUSINESS OWNERS, YOU KNOW, I DID HAVE A CONCERN THAT THEY DIDN'T FEEL THAT THEY WERE NOTIFIED ABOUT THESE MEETINGS AND WHEN THEY'RE COMING UP ON THE AGENDA.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SA SPEAKS UP IS PUBLIC, BUT I DO THINK THAT US AS A CITY SHOULD BE TAKING AN ADDITIONAL STEP TO NOTIFY FOLKS WHEN THEIR BUSINESS AND LIVELIHOOD IS ON THE LINE. SO MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE BACK JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOTIFYING BUSINESSES ACCORDINGLY ABOUT IF THEIR AGENDA ITEM IS
[01:35:01]
COMING UP. I JUST WANT TO REITERATE THAT PUBLIC SAFETY AND ANIMAL WELFARE ARE TOP CONCERNS FOR ME ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO DOWNTOWN, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO LOOKING AT A PLAN BY AUGUST.THAT'S ALL MY COMMENTS I HAVE. THANKS, CHAIR.
>> COURAGE: THANK YOU. >> I JUST WANTED TO OFFER THAT ALL FIVE COMPANIES WERE REACHED OUT TO DIRECTLY AHEAD OF THESE MEETINGS. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE.
>> GAVITO: THANK YOU. THAT'S NOT WHAT I UNDERSTOOD YESTERDAY, BUT THAT'S
HELPFUL. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN, THANK YOU.
COUNCILMAN KAUR, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AT THIS TIME?
>> KAUR: THANK YOU, CHAIR. I WANTED TO START OFF BY SAYING LIKE COUNCIL MEMBER HAVRDA, I USED TO RIDE AS A KID.
I ALSO LOVE HORSES AND HAVE ALSO BEEN BUCKED OFF A COUPLE OF TIMES SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THE DANGER THAT SOMETIMES HORSES PRESENT, BUT THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS. I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE DISTRICT 1 RESIDENTS THAT CAME OUT TO ASSESSMENT WE APPRECIATE YOU ALL TAKING TIME OUT OF YOUR DAY TO SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US. AND THE BUSINESS OWNERS.
AS A SMALL BUSINESS ADVOCATE I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE PERSPECTIVE THAT YOU ALL ARE COMING FROM AND I ALSO WANT COMMEND YOU ON HOW YOU ARE TAKING CARE OF YOUR HORSES.
I DID NOT GET A CHANCE TO SPEAK WITH YOU ALL, BUT I UNDERSTAND THE HORSES ARE WELL TAKEN CARE OF. THEY'RE DRAFT HORSES AND THE WORK THEY'RE DOING IS BECAUSE THEY'RE MEANT TO WORK. BUT ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, I DO HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. ONE IS THE 95-DEGREE THRESHOLD.
HOW IS THAT REGULATED? IS IT LIKE IF IT'S PROJECTED TO BE OVER 95 DEGREES THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK OR AS SOON AS THE TEMPERATURE GETS THAT WAY YOU HAVE TO STOP? HOW IS THAT MEASURED AND REGULATED?
>> THE TRANSPORTATION INSPECTORS THAT ARE ON DUTY ON THOSE DAYS AND TIMES REGULATE THAT -- MONITOR THAT TEMPERATURE, AS WELL AS THE HORSE CARRIAGE DRIVERS THEMSELVES. SO IF THERE'S A DISPUTE BETWEEN WHAT AN INSPECTOR SAYS AND A HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATOR SAYS, WE DON'T, PER SE, GET WITH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE OUT OF AUSTIN OR SAN ANTONIO TO SAY HEY, WHAT'S THE
TEMPERATURE. WE MONITOR IT OURSELVES. >> KAUR: ARE THERE ANY DAYS THAT ARE PROJECTED TO BE OVER 95 DEGREES, ARE THOSE INSPECTORS OUT?
>> THE INSPECTORS ARE OUT ON A REGULAR SCHEDULE, COUNCILWOMAN.
AND WHAT WE DO FOR AIR QUALITY HEALTH ALERT DAYS, WE DO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION IN ADVANCE, OKAY. IT'S AN AIR QUALITY HEALTH ALERT DAY, IT'S BEEN BROADCAST OVER THE NEWS, NO CARRIAGE OPERATIONS BETWEEN 12:00 P.M. AND 8:30 P.M. BEFORE THEY GO OUT. TEMPERATURE CAN BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT. IT MAY BE PREDICTED TO BE X AND WE'LL GET A COLD FRONT BLOW THROUGH OR VICE VERSA. SO WE HAVE TO MONITOR THAT AS WE GO.
>> KAUR: I'D BE INTERESTED TO SEE IN THE MONTHS OF LIKE JUNE, JULY AND AUGUST HOW MANY DAYS DOES IT HIT OVER 95 DEGREES. AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE CAN BE LIKE A -- RATHER THAN DECIDING DAY-BY-DAY BASIS IF THERE IS A SUMMER MONTH POLICY THAT NEEDS TO BE CREATED. THEN ON THE INSPECTION COMPONENT, ON THE CHART THAT COMPARES OUR INSPECTIONS TO OTHER CITIES, IT SAYS THAT WE INSPECT RANDOMLY. IS THERE A CADENCE FOR THAT RANDOM? DO WE ENSURE THAT WE INSPECT EVERY SIX MONTHS AT LEAST ONCE?
>> SO EVERY YEAR THE CARRIAGE UNDERGOES A COMPLETE INSPECTION AS PERMITS ARE RENEWED. AND THEN ON A DAILY BASIS WITH THE TRANSPORTATION INSPECTORS ARE OUT, THEY ARE CONSTANTLY INSPECTING THOSE CARRIAGES.
SO THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS KIND OF TWOFOLD.
YEARLY UPON PERMIT RENEWAL AND THEN DAILY DURING OPERATIONS.
>> GOT IT. I'M ASSUMING THE DAILY INSPECTIONS AREN'T THOROUGH. THEY'RE LIKE A QUICK SCAN TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T SEE
ANYTHING -- ANY BIG VIOLATIONS. >> ON THE CARRIAGE OR YOU MAY ASK THE DRIVER I NEED TO SEE YOUR PERMIT OR YOUR TEXAS DRIVER'S LICENSE.
THOSE ARE QUICK AND SIMPLE INSPECTIONS. >> KAUR: OKAY.
ON YOUR MEETING WITH STAKEHOLDERS, WHAT DOES THAT PUBLIC INPUT PROCESS LOOK LIKE? HAS THAT ALREADY BEEN DEVELOPED.
>> NO. WE'RE GOING FROM HERE IS HOW DO WE DEVELOP THAT, HOW DO WE GET ALL THESE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM IS THE BEST METHOD A TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD OR IS IT BEST TO DO IT, HOW DO WE BRING ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS TOGETHER, NOT ONLY OPERATORS, OWNERS, TOURISTS THAT USE IT OR CITIZENS THAT WANT TO COME
SPEAK ABOUT ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE. >> KAUR: YEAH.
I'D LIKE FOR YOU ALL TO THOUGHTFULLY CONSIDER ABOUT HOW WE'RE GETTING INPUT.
WE HATE HEARING WHEN FOLKS FEEL LIKE PUBLIC INPUT ISN'T INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS.
AND I WANT TO THANK COUNCIL MEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ FOR SHARING THAT THIS CCR IS THE START OF THAT PROCESS, BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE AT THE SAME TIME THAT SINCE WE ARE GATHERING INFORMATION WE'RE DOING IT WELL AND THAT WE'RE GETTING IT FROM A
[01:40:04]
COMPREHENSIVE GROUP OF FOLKS. AND AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND THAT AS A BUSINESS OWNER AND BEING DEEP IN THIS WORK THE PERSPECTIVE THAT IS THERE, BUT SO MANY CONSTITUENTS THAT I SPEAK TO FEEL THAT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE ALREADY ADDRESSED AND TAKEN CARE OF IN TERMS OF THE FACT THAT THEY SEE HORSES DOING THIS WORK IN THIS HEAT. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT REGULATING A COMPREHENSIVE IDEA OF WHERE OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE AND HOW WE CAN BETTER SUPPORT THIS INDUSTRY. AND SO THAT BEING SAID, WHETHER THAT LOOKS LIKE SURVEYS OR ACTUALLY GOING OUT AND SPEAKING TO TOURISTS, BECAUSE THERE IS A PERCEPTION THAT TOURISTS WOULD NOT USE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES, BUT WE DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE DATA ON THAT. ON IN THE PUBLIC INPUT PROCESS THIS SUMMER IF WE COULD DO A SURVEY OF TOURISTS DOWNTOWN AND ASK THEM IF THEY WOULD STILL BE INTERESTED IN THE CARRIAGE IF IT WAS ELECTRIC, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD DATA POINT FOR US TO HAVE WHEN YOU GUYS BRING IT BACK TO US AT TRANSPORTATION.AND THEN THE LAST REQUEST THAT I JUST HAVE IS WE ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT THERE ARE 81 CARRIAGE DRIVERS, SO IF WE MAKE ANY DECISION WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CONSIDERING WHAT HAPPENS TO THOSE FOLKS BECAUSE THESE ARE JOBS THAT THEY HAVE CURRENTLY AND SO I'D LIKE FOR CITY STAFF TO CONSIDER THINKING ABOUT A TRANSPORTATION PLAN. SINCE EACH OF THESE FIVE COMPANIES HAS FIVE PERMITS, IS THERE A WAY TO TRANSITION WHERE MAYBE IN THE FIRST YEAR SOMEONE ACTUALLY -- A CONSTITUENT SHARED THIS IDEA WITH ME ABOUT GETTING INFRASTRUCTURE GRANTS FOR THESE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES BECAUSE THE BUSINESS OWNERS DID TELL ME THAT THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AREN'T MANUFACTURED HERE, THEY'RE NOT EASILY AVAILABLE.
SO IS THERE A WAY THAT WE COULD HELP SUPPORT GETTING SOME KIND OF SUPPORT OR FUNDING FOR ELECTRIC CARRIAGES IF THAT'S THE DIRECTION THAT WE MOVE? AND IS THERE A TRANSITION PLAN WHERE WE COULD TEST THAT WHERE MAYBE WE DO ONE OR TWO PERMITS FOR ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AND SEE IF THEY'RE AS SUCCESSFUL OR IF THEY'RE GETTING ANY TRACTION. SO I'D JUST LIKE TO -- LIKE COUNCILWOMAN HAVRDA AND COUNCILWOMAN GAVITO, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY I AGREE THAT WE WANT TO HONOR AND RECOGNIZE OUR PAST, BUT MAKE SURE WE'RE MOVING TO THE FUTURE IN A WAY THAT'S SUPPORTIVE OF ALL, INCLUDING ALL OF OUR ANIMALS THAT WE LOVE SO MUCH AS WELL.
THOSE ARE ALL MY COMMENTS. THANKS, CHAIR. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN. I HAD A QUESTION. I SAW SOMETHING INTERESTING IN AN EARLY PRESENTATION. MS. GARCIA, IN THE VIDEO I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WE SAW. I THINK RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING OF THAT VIDEO, I THINK IT SHOWED A PERSON PULLING ONE OF THOSE CARTS. IS THAT LIKE A PROPOSAL TO
REPLACE THE HORSES? >> NO. WE'RE JUST SHOWING HOW EASY IT IS. THESE CARRIAGES ARE VERY LIGHT.
FOR A HORSE THAT'S 1500 POUNDS TO 2,000, SOME OF THEM ARE EVEN MORE THAN 2,000 POUNDS, TO PULL A CARRIAGE LIKE THAT IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO IS NOT
HARD. >> COURAGE: OKAY. THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE THAT. WOULD ANY OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS THAT THEY'D LIKE TO MAKE? COUNCILMAN?
>> I WOULD RECOMMEND A MEETING OF JUST CITY STAFF AND CARRIAGE OPERATORS.
MY GOAL WOULD BE TO MINIMIZE CONTENTION BETWEEN ANY OPPOSING GROUPS.
I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES TO MEET WITH JUST ADVOCATES AND THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY WITH JUST THE CARRIAGE OPERATORS. AND THERE SHOULD BE SPECIFIC OUTCOMES THAT YOU WANT TO COME UP WITH THAT, INCLUDING WHAT WOULD A TRANSITION AND TIMELINE LOOK LIKE. IN ADDITION TO THEIR CONCERNS WITH SUCH A BAN AND CONSIDERATIONS TO MAKE, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
I WOULD -- I KNOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A MOTION, BUT I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION FOR TRANSPARENCY PURPOSES. I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO APPROVE THE TIMELINE, BUT TO ADD THAT AT THE AUGUST 2024 COMMITTEE MEETING STAFF WILL PRESENT A DRAFT PLAN FOR THE PHASING OUT OF THESE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES AND THAT MEETINGS WITH CARRIAGE OPERATORS CAN START TO TAKE PLACE IN JUNE 2024.
>> I'LL SECOND THAT. >> COURAGE: OKAY. THERE'S BEEN A MOTION AND A SECOND THAT REQUIRE AT OUR AUGUST MEETING WE HAVE A PLAN TO GO AHEAD AND MOVE FORWARD IN WHATEVER DIRECTION WE MAY. AND I THINK THAT THERE MAY BE -- THIS IS JUST A THOUGHT. THERE MAY BE A COUPLE OF OPTIONS THAT WILL BE DISCUSSED IN THAT KIND OF A PLAN.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE WHAT WE'RE ALL EXPECTING? OKAY.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT? IF NOT, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE? HEARING NONE, THEN WE ARE CONCLUDED -- OH, YES. COUNCILWOMAN KAUR, DO YOU
[01:45:05]
CONCUR WITH THE MOTION? >> KAUR: YES, SORRY, I RAISED MY HAND.
>> COURAGE: OKAY, THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, THEN, THAT CONCLUDES OUR AGENDA FOR TODAY. THANK YOU EVERYBODY.
WE'LL BE MEETING AGAIN ON THIS IN AUGUST. I WILL ALSO MENTION WE PROBABLY WILL NOT HAVE A COMMITTEE MEETING IN THE MONTH OF JULY.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.