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[00:00:08]

>> GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYBODY. WELCOME TO THE MEETING TODAY. WE APPRECIATE Y'ALL BEING HERE.

IT'S 8-19-20234. THE TIME -- THE TIME IS 2:04.

I WILL ASK FOR A ROLL CALL.

>> WE HAVE QUORUM. >> THANK YOU. TODAY WE HAVE ONE ITEM ON OUR AGENDA OR -- THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO. THE FIRST IS GOING TO BE

[Approval of Minutes  ]

APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JUNE 4TH, 2024. SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND TAKE THAT ISSUE UP FIRST. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ANYBODY NEED ANY AM AMENDMENTS OR CHANGES TO THE MINUTES? IF NOT, I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR JUNE 4TH, 2024 OF THE MEETING.

OKAY. MOTIONS ARE MADE AND SECONDED.

NO ONE HAD ANY CHANGES. ALL IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE MINUTES

[Briefing and Possible Action on  ]

SAY AYE. ANY IN OPPOSITION? HEARING NONE, THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. OUR ITEM TODAY IS A BRIEFING AND POSSIBLE ACTION ON COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST BY COUNCILMEMBER JALEN MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ, AND IT IS REGARDING HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES AND THEIR OPERATION -- CONTINUED OPERATION, FUTURE OPERATIONS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. WE HAVE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE WHO SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE TODAY. I'VE GOT A LIST OF 23 INDIVIDUALS. I'M GOING TO ASK EACH PERSON TO TAKE TWO MINUTES TO GO AHEAD AND LET US KNOW WHAT THEIR INTERESTS OR CONCERNS ARE. I'LL GO AHEAD AND BEGIN BY CALLING THE FIRST PERSON ON THE LIST, ROSE HILL. NEXT IS STEPHANIE GARCIA. SO ROSE HILL. OKAY.

IF SHE'S NOT AVAILABLE, NEXT IS STEPHANIE GARCIA.

I'M SORRY. I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.

>> OH, SO THEN YOU WON'T BE SPEAKING? OH, YES.

WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE, PLEASE?

>> OKAY. AND WHO ELSE? OKAY.

I SEE. YEAH. THERE EGG WITH.

WE GO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU HAVE SIX MINUTES.

PARDON ME? >> I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO MY YOUNGEST DAUGHTER, LEAH, MY GRANDSON, THEO, WHO IS 19 MONTHS, MY GRANDDAUGHTER WHO IS SIX MONTHS. MY TWO COMPANIES THAT ARE UNDER THREAT TODAY ARE FAMILY RUN AND THEIR FUTURE.

TO PHASE US OUT OR MOVE US OUT OF THE DOWNTOWN AREA WILL BANKRUPT MY FAMILY. A SAVED SURVEY THAT ISN'T CYNIC, 22 MILLION FOLLOWERS FROM NEW YORK THAT COULD BE TAKEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN BY THE INCOGNITO OF GOOGLE, WHICH DOESN'T FLAG IP ADDRESSES, AND PEOPLE WITH ESTABLISH VPNS. WE'VE HAD COUNCILMEMBERS TO VISIT OUR FACILITIES. THERE WAS NO DOUBT THAT THE HORSE HAS BEEN LOOKED AFTER AT HOME. IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHY WOULDN'T THEY BE SAFE AND CARED FOR ALSO? MY GENTLE GIANTS HAVE RECEIVED THEIR ANNUAL TESTS AND PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS, AN EXAMPLE OF THE REGULATIONS SET BY THE CITY ORDINANCE. THERE'S BEEN MENTION THAT WE DON'T FOLLOW OUR ORDINANCE. IS THIS BECAUSE OF THE CITATIONS BROUGHT TODAY? IT CLEARLY SHOWS THAT THE [INDISCERNIBLE] AFTER THE CCR WAS FILED IN NOVEMBER OF 2022.

COULD THIS BE BECAUSE THEIR THERE ON AN DAILY BASIS NOW AT THE REQUEST OF THE CITY AND WAS WE HAVE TO WORK FROM ONE COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE, EVEN AFTER WE'VE REQUESTED MORE CARRIAGE STANDS AS ALL THE ONES WE HAVE THAT WERE MENTIONED IN THE ORDINANCE HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY WITH US. IT'S LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN THE BARREL.

WE'RE AN EASY TARGET. WHY ARE WE NOT DISCUSSING HOW MANY OF

[00:05:02]

THESE TICKETS ARE DISMISSED? I THINK YOU WILL FIND MOST ARE. THEN WE TURN TO THE TEXAS SUMMERS GETTING HOTTER AND HOTTER. THE ORDINANCE STATE WE CANNOT WORK WHEN THE TEMPERATURE IS 5 AND ABOVE. YOU'LL SEE PHOTOGRAPHS OF CAR DRIVERS SHOWING THEIR CAR TEMPERATURES AT 100 DEGREES. MY CAR SHOWS RIDICULOUS TEMPERATURES, TOO. IT'S NOT ACCURATE.

WHAT PEOPLE PAY NOT KNOW AND WHAT COUNCILMEMBERS MAY NOT KNOW IS THAT WE HAVE TO WORK FROM ONE WEATHER STATION DICTATED BY THE CITY.

THIS BEING WEATHER UNDERGROUND KTX 1779. LET'S MOVE ON TO THE RESCUES FOR OUR WELL CARED HORSES. RESCUES ARE OVERRETURN AND UNDERFUNDED. DRAFT WORKING HORSE CAN EAT ALMOST FOUR TIMES WHAT EYE REGULAR HORSE CAN EAT. THEREFORE, AN EXPENSIVE ANIMAL TO KEEP AND EXERCISE. AT NO POINT AS AN OWNER HAVE I SAID I WOULD EUTHANIZE ANY OF MY FAMILY.

WHAT WE'RE GOING -- WITHOUT DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING, WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO KEEP THEM. THEN THE PEOPLE WITH THE DREAMS OF OWNING THESE BEAUTIFUL ANIMALS COME ALONG AND BUY THEM AND REALIZE HOW EXPENSIVE THEY ARE TO KEEP AND SELL THEM CHEAP.

THIS IS HOW OUR FAMILY EARNED A THREAT. HOW LIKE LIKE IT IF SOMEONE SAID I'M TAKING YOUR BEE LOVED CAT OR DOG AND GIVING THEM TO A SHELTER WHEN THEY WOULD NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE AND CARE YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM. THESE HORSES ARE BRED TO WORK AND PULL. THE JOB THEY HAVE WITH US IS EASY GOOD LIFE. WOULD YOU RATHER THEY BE PLOWING AN AMISH LAND WHERE THERE'S NO ORDINANCE OR TEMPERATURE, WHAT BREAKS OR HOURS THEY WORK, OR IF THEY GET WATER AFTER A RIDE? LET ME TELL YOU, IT'S MUCH HARDER PULLING A CARRIAGE OR CART IN SAND THAN RIDING ALONG THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO.

WE WILL SOON HAVE WORKING ANIMALS IN SAN ANTONIO FILMING THE SERIES 1923. ARE WE GOING TO BAN THEM, TOO, ALONG WITH POLICE HORSES AND DOGS? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF HORSES HAVING LUNG ISSUES WITH WORKING IN THIS TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT.

WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE CITY. LET'S PILOT THE HORSES ELECTRIC CARRIAGES IF THAT'S WHAT THE CITY WANTS US TO DO.

BUT I IMP I EMPHASIZE PILOT. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SHARE IN THE ELECTRIC CHARGES AS WE HAVE TRAVELED TO THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, GUADALAJARA AND FLORIDA ON OUR OWN EXPENSE.

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF WORK TO GET THESE ELECTRIC CHARGES ROAD LEGAL AND READY TO ROLL FOR THE PUBLIC. ALL I ASK IS THE CITY COMES TO THE TABLE AND TALKS TO THE EXERTS BEFORE SMALL MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES ARE RUINED AND LOST FOREVER.

WE'VE ALREADY PUT OUR IDEAS FORWARD. WORK WITH US, PLEASE.

I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. I'M SORRY ABOUT THE

NOISE. >> THANK YOU. NEXT IS SKYLER NEWMAN TO BE FOLLOWED BY MARIAH SMITH. SKYLER NEWMAN.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS SKYLER NEW MAN.

I'M A MANAGER. I'M URGING YOU NOT TO PASS THE CC AND R.

THIS HAS BEEN THE LONGEST AND MOST DISHEARTENING ROAD. SO MANY UNEDUCATED OPINIONS. PEOPLE LIKE TO WALK AROUND AND TAKE PICTURES OF GOOD, HEALTHY, HAPPY HORSES DOING WHAT THEY LOVE. BUT SOMEONE CAN CAPTION IT WITH SOMETHING NEGATIVE AND NOT TRUE AND NOW OUR INDUSTRY AND HORSES HAVE A THREAT IN THE FUTURE. A COUNCILMEMBER SAID WE WOULD EUTHANIZE OUR HORSE IT'S THIS WENT THROUGH. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY ABSURDITY. WHAT HAPPENED WAS, LIKE STEPHANIE SAID, WE WOULD SELL THESE HORSES TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE FANTASIES OF OWNING THESE HORSES BUT HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP THEM ALIVE.

ONCE THEY REALIZE HOW EXPENSIVE THEY ARE, THAT'S HOW THEY WOULD END UP IN KILL PENS. YOU HAVE A LIST OF RESCUES, THERE'S THERE'S NO LIST. THE RESCUES ARE OVERRUN. IF YOU WANT TO HELP HORSES, SHOULD YOU START THERE WITH THE ONES FACING IMMEDIATE DEATH EVERY DAY BEFORE YOU COME LOOKING AT OUR HORSES WHICH ARE

[00:10:02]

PROMISED A LONG, HAPPY, HEALTHY LIFE. I KNOW YOU MIGHT FEEL LIKE YOU'RE HELPING OUR BABIES, BUT YOU CAN'T FIX WHAT'S NOT BROKEN.

THEY LIVE A GREAT LIFE. I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE AWARE, BUT CLYDESDALES ARE FACING EXTINCTION IN THE UNITED STATES. WE FOUND A WAY TO GIVE THEM THE BEST THE BOTH WORLDS. THEY WORK THREE TO FOUR NIGHTS A WEEK, NEVER ABOVE 95, AND THEY GO HOME EVERY NIGHT.

I PERSONALLY WORK 6 DAYS A WEEK TO MAKE SURE THEY GO HOME EVERY NIGHT.

I AM ONE OF THE HAULERS. THAT BEING SAID, I HOPE YOU RECONSIDER THIS CCR AND NOT TAKE AWAY WH WHAT'S BEEN OUR WAY OF

LIFE FOR 18 YEARS. >> THANK YOU, MS. NEW MAN.

MARIAH SMITH. >> I'M BE TAKING THE TIME OF DARIUS COLEMAN

AND LEAH LA PORTE. >> THANK YOU. GO AHEAD.

YOU HAVE SIX MINUTES. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMITTEE MEMBERS. MY NAME IS MARIA. AS YOU ALL KNOW, I'M AN ACTIVE CONSTITUENT AND COMMUNITY ADVOCATE.

I AM HERE TODAY IN SUPPORT OF A FULL BAN ON HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES AND THE TRANSITION TO A MORE MODERN AND HUMANE OPTION, ELECTRIC CARRIAGE. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE CITY FOR SEEKING OUT PUBLIC INPUT AND PROVIDING MANY PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINION ON THIS ISSUE. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A VERY PASSIONATE ISSUE WE HAVE HERE AND I THINK IT SAYS A LO THE THAT THE SURVEY BROKE RECORD LEVEL PARTICIPATION WITH MORE THAN 47,000 RESPONSES MUCH THIS WAS A WIDELY TAKEN SURVEY BECAUSE THIS WAS SOMETHING NOT ONLY OPEN TO RESIDENTS BUT TOURISTS PARTICIPATED AS WELL.

AS ONE OF THE ADVOCATES WHO HAS BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR MANY YEARS NOW, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN CITIZEN-LED FROM THE START. I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE OTHER SIDE AND THE MEDIA, TRY TO PAINT US OUT TO BE ACTS VISIT.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN CITIZEN-LED. PEOPLE ARE COMING AT THIS FROM ALL DIFFERENT ANGLES, NOT JUST THE WELFARE SIDE BUT FOR CONCERNS LIKE PUBLIC SAFETY AND CONSTRUCTION AND INCREASED CONGESTION.

LAST MEETING, WE WERE ALL ABLE TO SEE THE 119 CITATIONS FOR VIOLATIONS THESE CARRIAGE COMPANIES HAD. KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS 119 THAT SAPD KNOWS OF AND I WANT TO PINPOINT THAT BECAUSE SAPD ISN'T ALWAYS OUT THERE. WITHOUT A DEATH, THERE'S MORE BECAUSE I'M OUT THERE EVERY WEEK AND I'VE SEEN MANY MORE. SAPD ALSO DID ADMIT TO US THEY DON'T MONITOR THE SERVICE REGULATIONS, NOR DO THEY REGULATE THE HORSES LIKE WATER BREAKS OR LAMENESS, SIGNS OF DEHYDRATION, EXHAUSTTION, OPEN WOUNDS AND UNCONTROLLABLE BEHAVIOR WHICH WE'VE SEEN IN PICTURES OR VIDEOS. I BELIEVE 119 CITATIONS OF VIOLATIONS SAYS A LOT EVEN THOUGH THAT NUMBER IS EXTREMELY UNDERREPRESENTED. THESE PEOPLE SHOW US TIME AND TIME AGAIN NOT ONLY THAT WE CAN'T TRUST THEM BUT THEY CAN'T ABIDE BY THE RULES AND PROFIT REALLY IS UTMOST IMPORTANT TO THEM, NOT WELFARE AND PUBLIC SAFETY. THIS PROFIT SEEKING INDUSTRY IS JUST THAT, TRUE WE WILL NARE DOES NOT EXIST IN THIS INDUSTRY AND MANY VETS KNOW THIS. ABOUT A MONTH AGO, YOU ALL SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM A COALITION OF MORE THAN 100 TEXAS VETERINARIANS LISTING THE ADVERSE EFFECTS HORSES IN THIS INDUSTRY SUFFER FROM.

I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THESE ARE VETERINARIANS NOT PAID FOR BY THE CITY. THERE'S NO CONFLICT UNLIKE CITY VET WHO HAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE HIS JOB IS ON THE LINE.

IF WE WERE TO TRANSITION THIS PRACTICE, HE WOULD NO LONGER BE MAKING MONEY OFF THESE POOR HORSES. SO I DON'T FIND IT APPROPRIATE. WE TRUST THE EXPERTISE OF SOMEONE WHO MAINTAINS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST HERE. I KNOW THERE'S A COUPLE COUNCILMEMBERS THAT HAVE VISITED THE BARNS AND RANCHES CLAIMING TO SEE THE OTHER SIDE OF THINGS. HAS ANYONE VISITED THE HOURS OF OPERATION AND THE PRACTICE DEBATED HERE.

IF THE CARRIAGE OPERATORS HAVE A HEADS UP AND ARE EXPECTED SOMEONE OF IMPORTANCE LIKE YOU OR THE MEDIA TO COME AND EXPECT THEIR LIVING CONDITIONS, THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS UP TO PAR AND SHOW YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS YOU GUYS COME OUT DURING OPERATING HOURS AND SEE FOR YOURSELF HOW DANGEROUS AND HEARTBREAKING THIS ACTUALLY IS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN AROUND IT FOR 14 YEARS NOW. SO THAT'S WHY I CONFIDENTLY STAND WHERE I STAND ON THIS ISSUE. I'M BEGGING YOU, COME OUT AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. SEE HOW EVERY CORNER YOU

[00:15:01]

TURN, THERE'S A POTENTIAL ACCIDENT OR LINE OF CARS BEING HELD UP BY A CARRIAGE OR A BUS DRIVER GETTING FRUSTRATED WITH THEM AND HORSES LAGGING AND DRAGGING AND FOAMING AT THE MOUTH AND CHOKING ON THE STREET AND EXHIBITING CLEAR SIGNS UNFIT FOR USE.

LAST MEETING THE CARRIAGE PEOPLE SAID EVERYTHING I HAVE ON THEM IS PERFECTLY TYPED. THE PICTURES ARE WHAT THEY ARE. THERE'S NO THING AS PERFECTLY TIMED.

I'M OUT THERE AND PUT THE WORK IN TO PROVIDE YOU GUYS WITH EVIDENCE AND FOR EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO FEEL COMFORTABLE IN YOUR DECISION IN THIS. I AM ABLE TO OBTAIN BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS HAPPENING. IF YOU SPENT TIME OUT THERE, YOU WOULD SEE FOR YOURSELF. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR ANYONE GOING IN THIS WITH THE MIND-SET OF JUST WANTING TO REGULATE AND MOVE THEM ELSEWHERE LIKE A PARK, PARK STILL HAVE THOSE CONDITIONS. AS ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING CONDITIONS, IT'S NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS ANYMORE.

OUR PARKS ARE CROWDED. THEY ARE UNMONITORED, KIDS SCREAMING AND RUNNING ALL OVER THE PLACE. JUST LIKE EVERYTHING IN OUR CITY, OUR PARKS ARE UNDERGOING CONSTRUCTION AS WELL.

FROM WHAT I CAN RECALL, PARKS SUFFER FROM TRAFFIC CONGESTION AND TWO YEARS AGO, THE CITY WAS TRYING TO CREATE A NEW PLAN TO REDUCE TRAFFIC THROUGHOUT THE PARK. SO ADDING CARRIAGES TO THE MIX IS NOT VERY SMART. AND I THINK THE LAST THING WE ALL WANT TO SEE IS A FATAL ACCIDENT IN A FAMILY SETTING WITH CHILDREN INVOLVED. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO TOUCH UP ON THE MISINFORMATION THAT THESE HORSES ARE SENT TO SLAUGHTER WHEN IT'S NOT TRUE AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO HAPPEN THAT WAY. WE HAVE RESCUES LINED UP AND EAGER TO TAKE THEM IN FOR WHATEVER REASON THE PEOPLE WHO CALL THESE HORSES THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS WANT TO SLAUGHTER THEM.

RESCUES LIKE HABITATS FOR SOURCES AND EQUINE REHAB FOR TEXAS WOULD GLADLY TAKE OPEN OWNERSHIP N RECOGNITION OF STATE LAW, THEY ARE THEIR PROPERTY. YES, THE DECISION IS UP TO THE CARRIAGE PEOPLE.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE TO HEAR THE EXCUSES AND FEAR TACTICS THEY LOVE TO CIRCULATE. IS THAT MY TIME? ALL RIGHT.

THANKS. >> THANK YOU, MS. SMITH.

BRYAN WHEAT TO BE FOLLOWED BY CHRIS DAVIS.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNCILMEMBERS. I'M BRAIN WHEAT AND I'M A BORN AND RAISED TEXAN WITH FAMILY LOCAL HERE TO SAN ANTONIO.

I AM A FOUNDER OF THE 510C4 NONPROFIT ANIMAL ADVOCACY GROUP.

I THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING UP THIS ISSUE. WITH HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS PASSED AND ADOPTED BY THE SAN ANTONIO CITY COUNCIL.

I HAVE NO HATE IN MY HEART FOR PEOPLE ARE TYING TO MAKE A LIVING, BY WHICHEVER MEANS THEY KNOW HOW. BUT IF THEIR BUSINESS IS NEGATIVELY IMPACTING OTHERS, THEN WHO ARE THEY REALLY HELPING WITH THEIR SERVICES? YALL OF THESE HORSES DESERVE TO SPEND THEIR LIVES ALT AN ANIMAL SANCTUARY AND HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO SERVE HUMANS. I APPRECIATE THAT THE COMMITTEE IS LOOKING FOR A TRANSITION THAT CAN SERVE AS A MODEL FOR OTHER BUSINESSES DEPENDENT ON ANIMAL EXPLOITATION. WE ARE AWARE OF THE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS AND ANIMAL CRUELTY EYESORES THEY BRING INFORM DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. I BELIEVE EVERY SAN ANTONIO RESIDENT FORCED TO SHA SHARE THE ROAD WOULD BENEFIT FROM THE BANISHMENT WHERE

THEY BELONG. >> THANK YOU, MR. WHEAT.

NEXT IS CHRIS DAVIS TO BE FOLLOWED BY JOSHUA REYNA.

SO MS. DAVIS, YOU'RE TAKING JOSHUA R REYNA, AND WHO ELSE?

YOU HAVE SIX MINUTES. >> THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO START BY READING A REPORT GIVEN BY DR. BEN ESPE WHO WAS HOSPITALIZED TODAY AND UNABLE TO BE HERE. HE HAS ASKED THAT THIS BE READ INTO THE RECORD. SO ONE OF THE TOP EQUINE VETERINARIANS IN THE COUNTRY. HE SAYS PRIOR TO THE START OF MY CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AS IT'S VET MARIAN IN 2015, EQUINE SERVICES FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WERE INSPECTED AND MONITORED BY SMALL ANIMAL-SPECIFIC VET THEY'RIANS. AT THE URGING OF THE BOARD, MY SERVICES WERE ENGAGED TO PROVIDE CRUELTY INVESTIGATIONS

[00:20:01]

FOR ALL TYPES OF FARM ANIMALS AND TO BE IN CHARGE OF CARRIAGE HORSE PERMITTING. IN THE ENTIRE TIME THAT I HAVE BEEN THE VETERINARIAN FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, I CAN SAY THAT I'VE NEVER BEEN CONTRACT TACTED BY THE MAYOR OR ANY CITY OFFICIALS EMPLOYED AT CITY HALL AND SAID TO REPRESENT THE CITIZENS OF SAN ANTONIO ABOUT ANY PATTERNS RELATED TO THE WELFARE OF THEHE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES OPERATING IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. THAT'S WHY SAN ANTONIO'S CITY COUNCIL'S RECENT MOVE TO PHASE OUT HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES WAS SURPRISING. IF I HAD BEEN CONSULTED PRIOR TO THE FILING OF THIS REQUEST, I WOULD HAVE ADVISED AGAINST IT.

THE CURRENT WORKING CONDITION FOR HORSES ARE NOT INHUMANE, AND THEY WOULD KNOW THIS IF THEY SOUGHT INPUT. IN ADDITION TO MY WORK WITH THE CITY, I HAVE BEEN THE HEAD VETERINARIAN FOR THE SAN ANTONIO STOCK SHOW AND RODEO WHERE MY WORK INVOLVES THE MOVEMENT AND HEALTH CARE FOR *6 0,000 ANIMALS OVER 21 DAYS EVERY YEAR IN FEBRUARY. I'VE BEEN A VETERINARIAN FOR 26 YEARS AND BOARD CERTIFIED IN REPRODUCTION AND NEONATOLOGY AND TRAINED IN THE WELFARE OF HORSES. MY OPINION, AS AN EQUINE SPECIFIC VETERINARIAN IS THE SCHEDULES AND CARE THEY RECEIVE ARE NEITHER INHUMANE NOR CRUEL. THEY RECEIVE REGULAR EXERCISE AND PASTURE TIME AS MOST COMPANIES HAVE FAR MORE HORSES THAN PERMITS WHICH ALLOWS ONE PASTURE TIME WHILE ONE HORSE IS WORKING.

THEY ARE INSPECTED BY MY AND EMBEDDED MICRO HIPS AND MONITORED.

THE HORSES ARE KEPT SHAWED WITH BORE YUM OR COX AS PRESCRIBED BY ANIMAL CARE CITY ORDINANCE THAT SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THEIR CARE. AS THE VETERINARIAN FOR THE WORLD CHAMPION YOUNG LIVING HORSES, SPECIFICALLY BRED AND TRAINED TO PULL CARTS, WAGONS AND CARRIAGES, I CAN CONFIRM THESE ANIMALS HAVE BEEN IN THIS WORK CAPACITY FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS.

THEY WERE INITIALLY BRED IN MEDIEVAL TIMES TO CARRY KNIGHT ARE KNIGHTS IN BATTLE AND BROUGHT TO THE UNITED STATES FROM EUROPE IN THE 1800S.

DRAFT HORSES WERE USED TO PULL WAGONS DURING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD, TRANSPORT ANY AND YOU'LL GOODS TO, MARKET, AND FULL FIRM IMPLEMENTS. THE AMISH STILL USE DRAFT HORSES TO PULL HEAVY LOADS. REGARDLESS OF WEATHER OR TIME DURING A TYPICAL DAY. THEY ARE NOT LARGE PEOPLE.

SWEEPING ASSESSMENTS ABOUT WHAT IS TOO THE HOT, HUMID, COLD, OR HEAVY DEPENDS ON THE HORSE PULLING THE LOAD. MAKING UNINFORMED DECISIONS NOT ONLY IRRESPONSIBLE FOR DETRIMENTAL TO SAN ANTONIO'S TOURISM INDUSTRY AND SHOWS A LACK OF INTEREST FROM CITY OFFICIALS IN SEEKING OUT TRUTHS AND SERVING THEIR CONSTITUENCIES. THE CURRENT LACK OF CONTACT FROM CITY HALL -- FOR 17 YEARS, I REMAIN AVAILABLE TO CONSULT WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS TO DISCUSS THE MATTER FURTHER. HE SENT TWO TEXTS.

HE SAID TELL THEM THIS, TOO. I WANTS TO EMPHASIZE THAT ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT THE CITY HAS NEVER, LARGE LETTERS, CONTACTED ME. AND HE WANTS Y'ALL TO KNOW THAT AS FAR AS PUTTING HIM OUT OF BUSINESS, HE GETS -- PLEASE TELL THE GROUP MY ANNUAL INCOME AVERAGES IN THIS FOR THE MONEY -- AND I CAN'T GIVE AN UNBIASED OPINION -- IS RIDICULOUS. HE WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO PRICE AND HIRE AN OUTSIDE VETERINARIAN, EQUINE VETERINARIAN, THEY WON'T FIND ONE WITH THE FRACTION OF MY QUALIFICATIONS.

I HAVE SPOKEN FOR DR. BEN ESPE. >> LEAH BARNES.

[00:25:57]

RACHEL WOLF. >> I'M COMING. >> ARE YOU MS. BARNES? I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD. YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES.

>> THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO BRING THIS DOWN BECAUSE CHRIS IS A LITTLE TALL. MY NAME IS LISA BARNS. ACTUALLY, I HAVE MY SON HERE WITH ME TODAY BECAUSE HE STARTED KINDERGARTEN THIS YEAR, AND I THOUGHT HE SHOULD HEAR THIS BECAUSE HE KNOWS HIS MOM GOES TO WORK AT NIGHT AND I WANT HIM TO SEE THAT WE MOVED HERE FROM HAWAII TO A CITY THAT WE LOVE IN SAN ANTONIO, AND I GOT A JOB FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS WITH HORSES WHICH I LOVE. I WANT TO SPEAK UP AND LET IT BE KNOWN THAT THIS IS A STAPLE DOWNTOWN AND I KNOW EVERYTHING THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING AS FAR AS TRADITION, YOU KNOW, IT'S OLD SCHOOL, WE SHOULDN'T DO IT ANYMORE.

THAT'S LIKE SAYING, MARRIAGE, WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT ANYMORE.

THEY REMAIN FOR REASONS AND IN GOOD STANDING, YOU KNOW, FOR FAMILIES LIKE MY SON. COME HERE. I JUST WOULD LIKE TO ALSO SAY IN THE MIDDLE OF MY SPEECH THAT THE FEMALE SPEAKING EARLIER, MIRANDA, FLAT OUT LIED TO YOU GUYS, AND I ALSO AGREE WITH ONE THING SHE SAID COME DOWN AND SEE THE HORSES. FOAMING AT THE MOUTH, THE LONG HOURS, THAT'S NOT -- FOLLOWING THE RULES, SHE BLATANTLY LIED TO YOU. PLEASE COME DOWN. SEE THAT WE FOLLOW THE RULES AND LOVE OUR HORSES AND WE DON'T GO OUT PAST 95 DEGREES.

MY SON CAN ATTEST TO THAT. HE STAYS IN THE BARN WITH US OR WITH THE HORSES UNTIL IT IS UNDER 95 DEGREES UNTIL WE GO OUT AND CAN TAKE CARE OF OUR HORSES. WE DON'T WANT TO BE REPLACED WITH PETTY CABS AND FIRE DEPARTMENT OTHER JOBS. WE ARE SUPPORTING FAMILIES ON THIS INCOME BECAUSE THIS IS THE INCOME WE NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITH AND THE HORSES. THE HORSES WON'T HAVE THE SAME LIFE. OUR CHILDREN WON'T HAVE THE SAME LIFE.

AND FUTURE FAMILIES WON'T HAVE THE SAME LIFE.

PEOPLE COME DOWNTOWN TO ENJOY THEMSELVES FROM ALL OVER TEXAS AND ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THE TWO MAIN THINGS THEY DO IS THE HORSE RIDES AND THE BOATS. SO PLEASE KEEP US. THANK YOU.

IS THAT MY BEEP? >> THANK YOU, MS. BARNES.

RACHEL WOLF FOLLOWED BY CATHIE STEVENS. >> GOOD AFTERNOON.

I'M RACHEL WOLF. I'M A FOUNDING MEMBER OF VOICE FOR ANIMALS.

WE WERE ESTABLISHED IN 1987. SHORTLY AFTER WE WERE FOUNDED, WE STARTED THIS ISSUE. SO WE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THIS ISSUE SINCE THE EARLY '90S. THAT'S 30 YEARS.

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WE'RE NO LONGER LIVING IN MEDIEVAL TIMES.

WE SHOULD MOVE AHEAD. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO MOVE ANYBODY OUT OF THEIR LIVELIHOOD. MOTORIZED CHARGES WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE.

WHAT I HAVE PROVIDED TODAY ARE THE POLLS FROM TWO OF THE TV STATIONS THAT SHOW THAT 57% AND 59% OF SAN ANTONIANS SUPPORT THE BAN.

SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS A MINORITY OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR HORSES. THEY CLAIM THEY LOVE THEM, BUT THEY ARE UNDER TREMENDOUS STRESS. THEY ARE NOT WORKING UNDER THE SAME CONDITIONS OF MEDIEVAL TIMES.

THERE'S TRAFFIC, CONGESTION, HIGHER TEMPERATURES.

IT'S ABOUT TIME. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING THIS ISSUE FOR SO LONG.

I WAS WORKING BACK IN THE DAYS WITH NELSON WOLF AND NED LAMERS WHEN I SAT ON THE ADVISORY BOARD. WE WERE NOT ABLE TO DO VERY MUCH EXCEPT TO MOVE SOME PROGRESS WITH CHAPTER 5 LIMITATIONS.

[00:30:02]

IT HELPED, BUT THERE ARE NO ENFORCEMENT. PEOPLE AREN'T OUT THERE WATCHING WHAT'S HAPPENING. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, A VERY BIG THANK YOU TO THE COUNCILMEMBERS MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ AND VIAGRAN FOR BRINGING THIS ISSUE UP YET AGAIN.

IT'S HIGH TIME. WE ARE LOOKING, AGAIN, AT PROFIT OVER THE ENVIRONMENT. PROFIT OVER PEOPLE. IT HAPPENS FREQUENTLY IN OUR SOCIETY THESE DAYS. RIGHT NOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT PROFIT OVER THE COMPASSION FOR ANIMALS. IT'S HIGH TIME THAT WE HAVE A BAN.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, MS. WOLF. CATHIE STEVENS.

MS. STEPHENS, YOU'LL BE FOLLOWED BY SHANE TILTON.

>> HELLO. THANK YOU. WE'RE THRILLED TO MEET WITH YOU GUYS AGAIN TODAY IN THIS HOT TOPIC.

WE HAVE NET MET WITH SEVERAL OF YOU COUNCILMEMBERS WHO HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO COME OUT AND MEET US. WE HOPE THAT THE ONES WHO HAVE NOT WILL TAKE THAT TIME AS WELL. YOU HAVE HEARD TODAY THAT WE DON'T OPEN OUR DOORS WHEN IT'S UNSOLICITED.

WE HAVE AN OPEN DOOR POLICY WHICH WE'VE ANNOUNCED TO EVERY COUNCILMEMBER. YOU CAN COME AT ANY TIME.

NO APPOINTMENT NECESSARY TO OUR RANCH, TO OUR STABLES.

WE'VE HAD THE MEDIA -- SOME MEDIA MEMBERS HERE THEMSELVES WHILE DRIVERS WERE PREPARING. THEY HAVE BEEN ON OUR CARRIAGES, TRAVELING DOWN THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO. IT'S BEEN AIRED AND PUBLICIZED.

WE LOVE OUR HORSES. THAT'S BEEN TOLD TO YOU GUYS MANY TIMES.

YOU GUYS HAVE ATTESTED THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE CARE THAT WE'RE GIVING IS UTMOST. WE WANT YOU TO TAKE THE TIME TO REFLECT ON THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SURVEY THAT WAS DONE WITH THE COMPANIES TO SEE THAT THIS IS MORE THAN JUST ABOUT TWO SIDES OF A STORY.

THIS IS A BUSINESS. WE ARE LOCALLY, MINORITY OWNED BUSINESSES, FAMILY OWNED AND FAMILY RAISED BUSINESSES AS WELL. WE TAKE THE TIME TO HIRE VETERANS TO WORK WITH THE STAFF MEMBERS THAT PROBABLY CAN'T GET REGULAR JOBS IN THE REGULAR WORKFORCE. WE SUPPORT SINGLE MOTHERS, SINGLE FATHERS. WE HAVE SEVERAL.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IMPACTING. WE CAN'T WORK IN -- SOME OF THEM CAN'T WORK IN A TRADITIONAL JOB SETTING BECAUSE THEY NEED ACCOMMODATIONS TO BE ABLE TO BRING THEIR KID WITH THEM TO WORK FOR A COUPLE HOURS WHILE YOU'RE GETTING YOUR HORSE READY.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT AT MCDONALD'S OR KOHLS OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

WE HAVE A LOVE AND DESIRE TO DO OUR JOB. I LEFT THE CORPORATE

WORLD TO DO THIS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, MS. STEVENS. OKAY. WE HAVE SHANE TILTON AND

SHANE YOU'LL BE FOLLOWED BY REBELIE TURAN. >> AM I GOOD TO GO? I'M SHANE. I'M A FAIR YES, SIR. I'M AFA CERTIFIED.

I WORK WITH NATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND STATE ORIGINATIONS THROUGH THE ASSOCIATION. THE CARE THAT IS GIVEN TO THESE HORSES, I'M OUT ONCE A WEEK PUTTING SHOES ON THESE HORSES. I'VE GOT OWN $20,000 INVESTED IN CONTINUATION OF EDUCATION FOR THESE SPECIFIC HORSES.

I STARTED OFF AS A CARRIAGE DRIVER. I THEN MOVED INTO THE FERRIER INDUSTRY SO I CAN HELP OUT THESE PEOPLE AND HORSES SPECIFICALLY. I JUST GOT BACK FROM VACATION YESTERDAY ATTENDING ANOTHER CERTIFICATION COURSE AND CAME BACK EARLY DUE TO ONE OF THE HORSES NEEDING THEIR FEET DONE.

THAT WAY THEY WERE NOT IN ANY SORT OF PREDICAMENT THAT CAN CAUSE A CONTINUATION OF ISSUES. IF THESE HORSES ARE LEFT UNATTENDED FOR ANY AMOUNT OF TIME, THEIR FEET WILL DETERIORATE OR DISSOLVE. THAT IS A MAJOR ISSUE THAT A LOT OF THESE HORSES WILL HAVE IF THEY GO TO SOME OF THESE CARE PLACES THAT SOME OF THESE OTHER PEOPLE ARE SUGGESTING. WE ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM. IT IS A VERY EXPENSIVE PROCESS.

IT COSTS ME OVER $100 IN MATERIALS PER HORSE TO GET THEM SHOED.

IT COSTS THESE CARRIAGE COMPANIES OVER $300 A HEAD TO GET THEM DONE SO THAT WAY THEY ARE TAKEN CARE OF. WITHOUT A GOOD FOUNDATION, A HORSE IS NOT HEALTHY. THEY WILL NOT BE HAPPY.

YOU HAVE TO START FROM THE GROUND UP JUST LIKE WITH YOUR CORNERSTONES.

THE CORNERSTONE OF A HORSE STARTS AT THE FEET.

SO WITHOUT THE PROPER EDUCATION AND PROPER REASONS HE AND METHODS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THESE HORSES, IT WON'T HAPPEN.

[00:35:02]

I INVITE ANY AND EVERY ONE OF YOU THAT ARE BOTH CARRIAGE DRIVERS OR AGAINST US TO RIDE IN MY TRUCK ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

I WORK 7 DAYS A WEEK FROM 7:00 A.M. TO 7:00 P.M. I SHOE OVER 800 SOURCES IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, AND I INVITE YOU TO COME RIDE WITH ME AT YOUR DISCRETION. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MR. TILTON. REBELIE TURAN FOLLOWED BY VALERIE REFORT. ]

>> CAN YOU STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN. >> SAMANTHA.

>> REBELIE. >> THAT'S MY HUSBAND. I'M TAKING HIS MINUTES.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE HIS TIME. >> YES.

>> GO AHEAD. >> I BELIEVE IT IS IMMORAL TO FORCE ANYONE INTO FORCED LABEL FOR FINANCIAL GAIN, ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES, ANYTHING. SO I AM FOR THE BAN OF HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES.

MOST OF US IN THIS ROOM PROBABLY DON'T AGREE ON EVERY SINGLE TOPIC, BUT IF ANYBODY IN THIS ROOM WAS FORCED TO DO LABOR AGAINST THEIR WILL, I WOULD BE SIGNING UP FOR YOU GUYS TO GIVE YOU A VOICE IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE ONE. THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MS. TURAN. THIS IS VALERIE REFERT.

>> HELLO. I'M VALERIE. I'M BORN AND RAISED IN SAN ANTONIO. NOT AN ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST NOR CRAZY ANIMAL PERSON. I DON'T EVEN OWN A PET CURRENTLY.

HOWEVER, I HAVE WORKED DOWNTOWN IN SAN ANTONIO, AND I'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH THE TRAFFIC AND THE CONGESTION THAT THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES CAUSE, WHICH WHY ARE WE DOING THINGS CAUSING TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION? JUST TO KEEP THIS SHORT AND SWEET, YOU FEEL -- WELL, TURNING A BLIND EYE TO CREW CRUELTY FOR FORECAST IS NOT NEW. WHAT ELSE IS CRUEL AND PROFITABLE WAS ALSO SLSLAVERY. WE SHOULD BAN POLICE HORSES AND DOGS. WE SHOULD BAN THOSE, TOO.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, VALERIE. NEXT IS JAMES BARNES

FOLLOWED BY MARICELA MARTINEZ. >> GOOD EVENING.

JAMES BARNES. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE.

I'M FROM DISTRICT 6. LET ME SAY I LOVE SAN ANTONIO.

I LOVE THE CITY. I'VE GOT FIVE KIDS HERE RAISING THEM UP TO STAY HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO LOVE IS WE LOVE THE HORSES. I MEAN WORKS DOESN'T LOVE HORSES? THERE'S A BIG CONVERSATION GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

I WAS PRIVILEGED TO HELP WORK WITH THE HORSE CARRIAGE COMPANIES, TRY TO GET SOME OF THE MEETINGS SET UP. I WAS REALLY SHOCKED AT HOW DIFFICULT THAT WAS TO GET SOMEBODY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS VERY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION. IN FACT, THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY IT TOOK TO HAVE -- TO WORK TOWARDS THE MEETINGS, I WISH WE HAD PUT THAT SAME AMOUNT OF ENERGY IN OTHER AREAS. I WORK IN MINISTRY.

IT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS TO DO. EVERY SATURDAY, I'M FEETING 140 HOMELESS PEOPLE AND THEY'RE LIVING UNDER THE BRIDGES AND IN TUNNELS AND PLACES IT SHOCKS ME. SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF WE COULD MAYBE TURN SOME OF THIS ENERGY FROM THE HORSES BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT -- WELL, WE'VE HEARD THE SIDES.

WE KNOW THEY ARE BEING WELL CARED FOR. SO NOW, MY DAUGHTER WHO IS 12 YEARS OLD, WHEN WE DRIVE TO H-E-B LESS THAN HALF A MILE AWAY, THERE'S 50 PEOPLE LIVING RIGHT THERE UNDER THE BRIDGE.

SO I ENCOURAGE US TO KIND OF PUT THIS ISSUE ASIDE, FIGURE IT OUT REAL QUICK, MAKE QUICK DECISIONS, AND REALLY GET TO THE REAL MEAT AND POTATOES OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN SAN ANTONIO BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR ME. IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR ANYONE AROUND DISTRICT 6 WHERE I LIVE. IT'S INSANE. AND WE'RE HAVING THIS HORSE CONVERSATION. IT SEEMS OUT OF PLACE WHEN WE NEED TO GET PRIORITIES GOING. AIM JAMES BARNES. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO FEED HOMELESS PEOPLE WITH ME. DISTRICT 6 EVERY SATURDAY, 1:00. WE GO ALL OVER THE PLACE. EITHER WAY, WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR ENERGY, REFOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MALTERS.

THERE IS HUMAN BEINGS SUFFERING ON THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO.

CAN WE FIGURE OUT THIS HORSE AND MOVE ON? THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MR. BARNES. MARISELA MARTINEZ FILED

BY TYLER. >> I DO WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR ALLOWING ME THIS TIME. I WANT TO ADDRESS A COUPLE THINGS THAT WERE SAID BY THIS LADY HERE. IF I SPENT 14 YEARS FOLLOWING ANYBODY AROUND

[00:40:02]

ALL DAY LONG, I'M GOING TO FIND YOU DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

THERE'S NO WAY I'M NOT BECAUSE WE ALL DO SOMETHING WRONG.

I WOULD SAY AT THAT POINT I NEED TO GET A LIFE.

NOW, AS FAR AS THE HORSES ARE CONCERNED, I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, I JUST GOT BACK FROM PORT ST. LUCIE IN FLORIDA WHERE THEY BANNED THE HORSES, AND THEY HAVE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES.

GUESS WHAT? WHEN I WENT TO GET ON IT, PEOPLE SAID NO, DON'T GET ON. IT'S WASTING OUR ELECTRICITY.

NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, IT'S GOING TO -- SOMEBODY'S GOING TO COMPLAIN. NOW, GETTING RID OF USS IS GOING TO HAVE A DOMINO EFFECT ON THE WHOLE CITY. WE'RE HERE -- WE TALK ABOUT HELPING THE VETERANS, HELPING THE MINORITIES, HELPING THE SMALL BUSINESS. WELL, THESE BUSINESSES ARE OWNED BY VETERANS, FAMILIES, BY MINORITIES, AND THEY'RE SMALL BUSINESSES, OBVIOUSLY.

SO WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, WE'RE NOT -- WE'RE NEVER GOING TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY. I FOR ONE CAN TELL ANYBODY HERE THAT YOU TELLING ME THAT YOU CARE MORE ABOUT MY HORSE THAN I DO, IT WOULD BE LIKE ME TELLING YOU, HEY, YOU'RE NOT TREATING YOUR CHILD RIGHT. I CARE MORE ABOUT THEM THAN I DO BECAUSE I GO OUT THERE AND I INSPECT THESE HORSES BEFORE I BUY THEM.

I SPEND DAYS AWAY FROM MY FAMILY TO TAKE CARE OF THESE HORSES.

I BRING THEM BACK HERE. NOBODY'S GOING TO MISTREAT ONE OF MY HORSES BECAUSE THOSE ARE MY HORSES. IT WOULD BE LIKE ME SAYING, YOU'RE MISTREATING YOUR DOG BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GIVE THEM WATER. ANOTHER THING SHE MENTIONED, WE'RE NOT TO BE TRUSTED? I WOULDN'T TRUST ANYBODY UNLESS I KNEW THEM.

THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT THERE EVERY DAY SWEATING, LOOKING AT THE HORSES, TALKING ABOUT GROUND TRANSPORTATION, THEY ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOB. WELL, THEY ARE A LIAR BECAUSE THEY ARE OUT THERE DAILY, WALKING THE STREETS, FOLLOWING THE HORSES AROUND, MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE COMPLYING. SO RIGHT THERE, YOU CAN'T JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE. ANYWAY, THANK YOU ALL

FOR YOUR TIME. HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. >> THANK YOU, MS. MARTINEZ. NEXT, TYLER PARISKI: TYLER.

OKAY. NEXT IS HARLEY HAR -- PARLAN.

>> HAILEY. >> OKAY. I'M SORRY.

LET ME MARK THAT. SOPHIA. I DON'T HAVE A LAST NAME

FOR SOPHIA. >> I'M SORRY. HAILEY PARLAN'S MINUTES ARE GOING TO THIS LADY.

>> I'M CINDY DOMINGUEZ. >> MS. DOMINGUEZ, I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU SIGNED

UP ON OUR LIST. >> I'M GOING TO TAKE HER MINUTES.

>> WELL, NO, I'M SORRY. THE PEOPLE WHO SIGNED UP CAN SPEAK OR THEY CAN GIVE THEIR TIME TO SOMEONE ELSE WHO SIGNED UP TO SPEAK, BUT YOU HAVEN'T SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. THEY CAN'T GIVE YOU

THEIR TIME. >> THANK YOU. SO I'LL GO BACK TO HAILEY PARLAN IF SHE WANTS TO SPEAK HER OWN TIME.

>> I SIGNED UP TO SPEAK BUT [INDISCERNIBLE]. >> I UNDERSTAND.

ROSE, YOU CAME IN LATE. I PUT YOU ON THE LIST. YOU HAVE TO WAIT.

>> YES, SIR. >> OKAY. MS. PARLAN, YOU'LL GIVE

YOUR TIME TO ROSE HILL. >> YES. >> YOU'LL BE UP IN A MINUTE. AGAIN, SOPHIA. OKAY.

THAT PERSON IS NOT HERE, I PRESUME. THEN WE ARE AT THE END. LIST.

ROWS HILL. SOMEONE -- LET'S SEE. MS. PARLAN GIVE YOU HER

TIME. YOU HAVE FOUR MINUTES. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS ROSE HILL. I'M A 35 YEAR ORGANIZER AND COMMUNITY LEADER AND COCONSTITUENT OF DISTRICT TWO.

I'M ASKING YOU TO LISTEN AND REMOVE THE CCR. WE TALK ABOUT HISTORY, 1955. THAT'S HOW LONG THIS COMPANY HAS BEEN AROUND. MARTIN LUTHER KING SAID I HAVE A DREAM.

CESAR CHAVEZ SAYS [INDISCERNIBLE]. I HOPE THIS IS BASED ON EVIDENCE, NOT HEARSAY. I WANT TO THANK THE COUNCILMEMBERS WHO LOOKED AT THE CARRIAGES. SAN ANTONIO IS ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND GROWTH. THAT'S WHAT THIS HORSE AND CARRIAGE COMPANY BRINGS. THEY BRING GROWTH AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THEY BRING REVENUE TO SAN ANTONIO.

SAN NTONIO SHOULD BE SUPPORTING THESE BUSINESSES, NOT TEARING IT UNDO. WE TALK ABOUT JOBS. THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOBS. THEY PROVIDE FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR THEIR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES. TRAFFIC CONGESTION, LET'S LOOK AT THE DOWNTOWN CONSTRUCTION. HOW LONG DID THAT TAKE? THAT WAS CONGESTION.

WE'RE POSSIBLY TALKING ABOUT BRINGING A BASEBALL FIELD DOWNTOWN

[00:45:04]

AND POSSIBLY THE SPURS. THAT'S GOING TO BE CONGESTION, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. SO WHEN THAT HAPPENS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO CALL IT? CONGESTION. THESE GROUPS THAT ARE AGAINST HORSES TODAY THAT SPOKE HAVE NOT GONE DOWN THERE AND THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED AND SEEN WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THESE HORSES. WHAT ABOUT THE RODEO IN FEBRUARY? THESE HORSES THAT WORK DILIGENTLY FOR TWO STRAIGHT WEEKS ROPING COWS, WHY ARE THEY NOT PROTESTING AGAINST THE RODEO? ISIS THAT NOT ANIMAL ABUSE. UNTIL THEY CAN ACTUALLY PROVIDE EVIDENCE, THOSE HORSES HAVE BEEN MISTREATED, I WOULD CALL THAT DISCRIMINATION. I TAKE THOSE HORSES AND THOSE FAMILIES SERIOUSLY. WHY? BECAUSE I'M NOT A PERSON THAT JUST GETS UP HERE AND TALKS THROUGH MY MOUTH AND THROUGH MY EARS. I WENT DOWN THERE. I SPENT A WEEK DOWN THERE INVESTIGATING, WALKING, AND SEEING THOSE HORSES BEING FED, TAKING THEM OUT TO PASTURE, AND I SAW HOW DILIGENTLY, HOW PASSIONATE THOSE PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THOSE HORSES, HOW THEY WASH THEM, HOW THEY TAKE CARE OF THEM, FEED THEM, WHAT THEY DO, BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THEY'VE GOT TO TAKE CARE OF THOSE HORSES. THAT'S THEIR BREAD AND BUTTER. THEY LOVE THEM BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY MAKE A LIVING. THAT'S HOW ALL OF US IN THIS ROOM MAKE A LIVING. RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE ARE HAVING A HARD TIME WITH HOUSING, PAYING THEIR BILLS, PAYING RENT, MORTGAGE, AND WE WANT TO TAKE DOWN THE SMALL BUSINESS? SAN ANTONIO IS TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. WE KEEP PUSHING IT, AND I KEEP HEARING IT FROM ALL THE COUNCILMEMBER AT THE DAIS.

WHAT DOES IT REALLY MEAN? THAT MEANS WE'VE GOT TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PEOPLE FIRST, OUR PEOPLE. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF MAKING SURE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE, THEY ARE IN DISTRICT 2.

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE TODAY. IT HURTS ME TO KNOW THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING HERE TODAY FOR THEIR FAMILIES, FOR THEIR JOBS, TO KNOW WHEN THE NEXT PAYCHECK IS GOING TO GET TO THEIR FAMILIES. SO PUTTING PUT ON THEIR TABLE.

I ASK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, BECAUSE YOU ALL HAVE FAMILIES, YOU ALL HAVE CHILDREN, YOU ALL KNOW WHERE YOUR PAYCHECK'S COMING FROM MANY TO, BUT THEY PROBABLY WON'T. I'M ASKING YOU TODAY, TAKE IT INTO YOUR HEARTS AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR DECISION AND HOW YOUR DECISION IS GOING TO IMPACT THE FAMILIES AND THE BUSINESSES OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS FOR HORSE AND CARRIAGE. WORK WITH THESE PEOPLE.

THEY WANT TO WORK WITH YOU ALL IN THE MOST ULTIMATE WAY.

WORK WITH THEM. STOP, LOOK, AND LISTEN, AND LET'S TALK ABOUT OUR HEARTS WHO WE REALLY ARE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT SAN ANTONIO.

WE DO NOT TEAR BUSINESSES DOWN. WE DO NOT TEAR FAMILIES DOWN. WE COME TOGETHER. WE UNITE.

WHO SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THE ISSUE. AT THIS TIME, I WILL --

PARDON ME. >> CHAIR, I WANTED TO REMIND YOU THAT THERE WAS A WRITTEN COMMENT THAT WAS SUBMITTED BY A RESIDENT CARRIAGE OPERATOR EMILY DOUGHERTY FOR THE RECORD. IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE READ INTO THE RECORD, BUT I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT YOU HAVE IT, AND

I'M GOING TO MAKE NOTE IN THE MINUTES. >> YES.

OKAY. I THINK EVERY COMMITTEE MEMBER RECEIVED A COPY OF THIS. IT'S RATHER LONG. I'LL READ IT INTO THE

RECORD THOUGH. >> YOU DON'T HAVE TO. >> OKAY.

AS LONG AS WE'VE GOT A COPY AND EVERYONE HAS ONE.

HOPEFULLY EVERYONE HAS HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT OVER.

OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.

AT THIS TIME THEN I'LL ASK THE CITY STAFF TO BRING FORWARD THE PRESENTATION THEY HAVE. THE CITY HAS DONE RESEARCH ON THIS AND HAS PREPARED SOME THOUGHTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE COMMITTEE TO

CONSIDER. PLEASE, LET'S GO. >> THANK YOU.

GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE. I'M RICK RILEY, THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OF THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT.

THE PURPOSE OF TODAY'S BRIEFING IS TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE COMMITTEE'S REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOLLOWING THE JUNE 4TH, 2024, BRIEFING AND REQUEST INPUT FROM THE COMMITTEE ON THE NEXT STEPS GOING FORWARD. AS BACKGROUND, CCR WAS SUBMITTED ON NOVEMBER 28TH, 2022. THE CCR ASKED THE STAFF TO DEVELOP A PLAN TO PHASE OUT THE USE OF HORSES WITH HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES TO INCLUDE THE ABOLISHMENT OF ORDINANCES AND POLICIES AS THIS IS RELATED TO CHAPTER 33. ADDITIONALLY, THE CCR ASKED THAT THE PLAN INCLUDE A DETERMINATION. FEASIBILITY AND ESTABLISHMENT OF A PROGRAM TO SUPPORT WORKFORCE TRANSITION, ESTABLISHMENT OF A PROHIBITION OF THE USE OF HORSES WITH CARRIAGE RIDES AND IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF THE ISSUANCE OF ALL NEW HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE

[00:50:01]

PERMITS. THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE HEARD IT ON APRIL 17TH, 2024 AND REFERRED IT TO THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE. THAT ISSUES WAS DISCUSSED HERE ON JUNE 4TH, 2024. SOME BACKGROUND JUST TO REFRESH MEMORY, AS YOU'LL RECALL, THE HORSE CARRIAGES CURRENT OPERATION THAT'S ARE GOVERNED BY CHAPTER 33 OF THE CITY CODE, THE CITY HAS ISSUED PERMITS FOR HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES SINCE 1865.

THERE ARE FIVE PERMITTED COMPANIES EACH HOLDING FIVE PERMITS FOR A TOTAL OF 25 CARRIAGES THAT EMPLOY 81 PERMITTED HORSE CARRIAGE DRIVERS.

CHAPTER 33 IS ENFORCED BY SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT'S GROUND TRANSPORTATION UNIT THAT CONSISTS OF ONE SUPERVISOR AND THREE INSPECTORS. FOLLOWING THE BRIEFING TO THE COMMITTEE ON JUNE 4TH, THEY REQUESTED ADDITIONAL STEPS TO BE TAKEN BEFORE A SECOND BRIEFING. YOU'LL SEE THOSE IN FRONT OF YOU BEGINNING WITH A SURVEY OF RESIDENTS, TOURISTS, AND IS ABOUTS.

YOU ASKED WE RESEARCH OTHER CITIES, THAT WE BRIEF THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICESSARD BOO, THAT WE CONTACT AN INDEPENDENT VETERINARIAN TO EVALUATE THE HORSES, THAT WE WORK ON WORKFORCE TRANSITION PLAN FOR FEEDBACK, AND THAT WE COME BACK AND BRIEF THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE TODAY. TODAY'S PRESENTATION WILL PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THOSE REQUESTS. AS YOU'LL SEE IN FRONT OF YOU, THE BRIEFING WILL BE AS FOLLOWS: AFTER MYSELF, ALANA REED WILL TALK ABOUT THE SURVEY. I'M COLONIAL BACK UP -- COME BACK UP TO TALK ABOUT OTHER CITIES' SURVEYS, ALEX LOPEZ ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER WILL DISCUSS PRELIMINARY OPTIONS FOR WORKFORCE TRANSITION, AND THEN WE ASK THE COMMITTEE TO PROVIDE SOME DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION GOING FORWARD. SO AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO INVITE ALANA REED TO TALK ABOUT THE SURVEY.

>> THANK YOU, RICK. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS AND ENGAGEMENT. OUR TEAM WAS TASKED WITH HOSTING A SURVEY TO UNDERSTAND HOW RESIDENTS, TOURISTS, AND INDUSTRY STAKEHOLDERS FEEL ABOUT THE PROPOSAL TO BAN HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. THE SURVEY WAS AVAILABLE IN ENGLISH AND SPANISH. IT RAN BETWEEN THURSDAY, JULY 25TH, AND TUESDAY, AUGUST 13TH. IT TOOK AN AVERAGE OF TWO MINUTES AND TWO SECONDS TO COMPLETE, AND THE QUESTIONS ASKED, ARE ARE YOU A TOURIST, RESIDENT, OR BUSINESS OWNER? HAVE YOU RIDDEN IN A HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE? IF YES, WHAT DID YOU LIKE ABOUT IT? IF NO, WHY NOT? AND FINALLY, WHICH ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS TO HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES, DID ANY, THEY LIKE BEST.

THERE ARE OPTIONAL DEMOGRAPHIC QUESTIONS. THE CITY RECEIVED 50,476 RESPONSES TO THE SURVEY, WITH 94%, COMPLETION RATE.

77.04% OF RESPONSES CAME FROM SAN ANTONIO RESIDENTS.

21.66% IDENTIFIED AS TOURISTS. 1.30% HE SAID THEY WERE SAN ANTONIO DOWNTOWN BUSINESS OWNERS. 51.98% OF RESPONDENTS THOUGHT THAT THE CITY SHOULD TRANSITION HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES TO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AND PEDESTRIAN OTHER CAPS AND BAN HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES COMPLETELY. 29% SAID TO KEEP HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES OPERATING AS IS. 11.1% SAID CONTINUE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES WITH ALTERNATIVE HOURS DOWNTOWN, AND EXPAND OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN.

7.9% SAID CONTINUE HORSE DROWN CARRIAGES WITH ALTERNATIVE HOURS AND MOVE THEM TO CITY PARKS. THAT TOTAL 48.02%.

THAT CONCLUDES THE SURVEY PORTION OF THE PRESENTATION.

I'M GOING TO TURN IT BACK OVER TO RICK. >> THANK YOU, ALANA.

SO SINCE THE JUNE 4TH, 2024, TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE SAPD MET WITH ALL FIVE HORSE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY COMPANIES. ALL FIVE EXPRESSED CONCERN FOR THE LIVELIHOOD OF THEIR BUSINESS, THEIR STAFF, EMPLOYEES, FAMILIES, AND THE FUTURE OF THEIR HORSES.

THEY PROPOSED REDUCING OPERATING HOURS. FOUR OF THE FIVE COMPANIES WERE OPEN TO OPERATING ELECTRIC CARRIAGES IF THE CITY WERE TO PROVIDE FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE TO PROCURE THEM AND THEY WOULD REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PERMITS BY 20%. ON AVERAGE, THE HORSE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY REQUESTED FIVE YEARS TO TRANSITION AND PHASE OUT OF THE INDUSTRY. IN JULY, SAPD WENT TO THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICES

[00:55:02]

BOARD AND BRIEFED THAT BOARD ON THE CCR AND RECEIVED FEEDBACK FROM MANY MEMBERS OF THE BOARD FROM THEIR COUNCILMEMBERS.

STAFF RESEARCHED THE STATE OF THE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY IN OTHER CITIES, INCLUDING THOSE PERMITTING HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES, THOSE PROHIBITING HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES, AND CITIES OPERATING ELECTRIC CARRIAGES. I WOULD FIRST LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CITIES WHERE HORSE CARRIAGES ARE PERMITTED. YOU'LL SEE A LIST THERE, THE TWO IN TEXAS, DALLAS AND AUSTIN, AND THEN WE MOVE THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES FROM INDIANAPOLIS TO NEW YORK AND DOWN TO FLORIDA.

SOME QUICK FACTS, IN DALLAS, THERE'S A COMPANY OPERATING WITH FIVE CARRIAGES. IT OPERATES IN THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT OF DALLAS, AND AT CHRISTMASTIME GOES THROUGH THE HIGHLAND PARK AREA. AUSTIN, THERE'S TWO COMPANIES CURRENTLY OPERATING, AND THEY OPERATE IN DOWNTOWN AND IN THE OLD WEST NEIGHBORHOODS. NEW YORK IS CENTRAL PARK.

CHARLESTON IS DOWNTOWN AREA OF CHARLESTON, AND INDIANAPOLIS PROVIDES TOURS EVERYWHERE FROM THE CAPITAL BUILDING IN THE CANAL DISTRICT AROUND DOWNTOWN, LUCAS OIL STADIUM AS WELL AS PARKS AND MONUMENTS.

CITIES BANNING HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES, ANOTHER AREA THAT THE COMMITTEE ASKED US TO LOOK AT. SO YOU'LL SEE THERE, CHICAGO, LAS VEGAS BANNED THEM IN '85 AND ALLOWED THEM TO RETURN IN 2014 ALTHOUGH NOT ON THE STRIP. SALT LAKE CITY, CAMDEN, NEW JERSEY, AND ASHEVILLE, NORTH KOREA. INTE -- NORTH CAROLINA.

THERE WAS NO TRANSITION PLAN WHEN THE CITIES BANNED HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES. SO SAN ANTONIO WOULD BE THE FIRST TO OFFER SOME TYPE OF TRANSITION PLAN IF THE COUNCIL WERE TO DECIDE TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION. SOME BACKGROUND HERE, CHICAGO CITY COUNCIL VOTED TO PLAN HORSE CARRIAGES BY SIMPLY NOT RENEWING LICENSES, AND THEY DID THAT IN APRIL OF 2020 TO TAKE EFFECT IN JANUARY OF 2021.

IN SARMENT LAKE CITY, THE BAN WENT INTO EFFECT AFTER THE LAST COMPANY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS IN SEPTEMBER 2014, AND THE BAN OCCURRED SHORTLY THEREAFTER. IN ASHEVILLE, THEY DID ALLOW TWO YEARS TO TRANSITION IN ASHEVILLE. THERE WAS A COMPANY THAT WAS OPERATING AT THE TIME OF THE TRANSITION. THE COMMITTEE ASKED THAT SAPD LOOK AT THE ELECTRICAL HORSELESS CARRIAGES, AND THESE, AS YOU'LL SEE A PICTURE THERE IN FRONT OF YOU, REPLACED THE HORSE WITH MECHANICAL PROPULSION. THESE ARE CUSTOM MADE, USUALLY COMING OUT FROM OVERSEAS. CURRENTLY, THEY'RE OPERATING IN FLORIDA AS WELL AS BEING TESTED IN PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA.

BOTH IN FLORIDA AND PENNSYLVANIA, THEY ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO WORK ON CITY STREETS. WHERE YOU SEE THESE IS, YOU SEE IN FLORIDA, THE STATE HAS NOT UPDATED THE REGULATIONS TO ALLOW NEIGHBORHOOD ELECTRIC VEHICLES TO VATE. YOU ASK WHAT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD ELECTRIC VEHICLE? THAT CAN BE A GOLF CART TO ELECTRICAL VEHICLES THAT WE HAVE HERE THE AND ELECTRIC CARRIAGES YOU SEE HERE.

THEY, THOSE CITIES, ARE TRYING TO WORK WITH THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION TO GET THOSE AUTHORIZED. SIMILARLY, IN PENNSYLVANIA, THEY ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO OPERATE ON CITY STREETS, AND IT'S REALLY PENNDOT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND ELECTRIC VEHICLES BECAUSE THEY'VE NEVER HAD THIS REQUEST BEFORE.

THEY'RE TRYING TO UNPACK THAT AND FIGURE OUT, WHAT ARE THE REGULATIONS THAT WE WOULD PLACE ON THAT INDUSTRY? THE COST THERE YOU'LL SEE IS ABOUT $20,000 PER ELECTRIC CARRIAGE. ANOTHER AREA THAT THE COMMITTEE ASKS US TO LOOK AT WAS OBTAINING A OBJECTIVE VETERINARIAN OF THE HORSES TO DETERMINE THE IMPACT ON WORKING CONDITIONS AND SUITABILITY. STAFF HAS CONTACTED FIVE VETERINARIANS.

THEY CITED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE THIS ASSIGNMENT. I'LL TURN IT OVER TOLE ALEX LOPEZ WHO'LL BRIEF

US. >> GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.

AT A VIE HIGH LEVEL, I'M GOING TO SHARE SOME OF THESE OPTION THAT'S WE EXPLORED AND HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED. BEFORE I DO THAT, I JUST WANT TO SHARE MORE CONTEXT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE THINKING OF AS FAR AS THE CARRIAGE DRIVERS THEMSELVES. I GOT THIS INFORMATION FROM SPEAKING WITH THE BUSINESS OWNERS. FIRST AND FOREMOST, THEIR AGES -- I KNOW YOU HEARD FROM A LOT OF THEM TODAY.

I'LL SHARE MORE GENERAL INFORMATION I GOT. THEIR AGES RANGE FROM TEENAGERS IN COLLEGE TO SENIORS OVER 60. THERE'S VETERANS, SINGLE

[01:00:03]

PARENTS. THERE'S DISABLED INDIVIDUALS OR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES. THERE'S A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY ASSOCIATED WITH THIS WORK. THEY ARE ACTUALLY INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS. SO MOST OF THEM I DON'T KNOW OF ANY ACTUALLY THAT ARE EMPLOYED BIT BYSES THEMSELVES.

THEY OPERATE AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS. THAT'S GOING TO FRAME INTO SOME OPTIONS THAT WE IDENTIFIED. SO MOVING INTO THOSE THAT WE DID IDENTIFY, THE FIRST ONE WOULD REALLY BE IF THEY WERE TO TRANSITION TO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES, MAKING SURE THERE'S A TRAINING PROGRAM ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. THAT TRAINING PROGRAM WOULD HAVE TO BE DESIGNED BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THE CARRIAGE THEMSELVES AND ALSO BY THE CARRIAGE OPERATOR, THE BUSINESS OWNER, TO MAKE SURE IT'S STILL ALIGNED WITH THEIR BUSINESS PRACTICES.

SO THAT WOULD BE THE FIRST OPTION, SHOULD THAT BE THE METHOD OF TRANSITION. THE SECOND OPTION WOULD BE TO TRANSITION INTO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF TOUR -- SO WE'RE THINKING OF RIVER BARGES, PEDESTRIAN OTHER CAPS AND TROLLEYS. SOME OF THESE MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE.

FOR EXAMPLE, PEDI-CABS. BUT GIVEN THE INTEREST -- THAT WAS ANOTHER THING THAT WE LEARNED. WHAT ARE THE EXPERIENCES, THE QUALIFICATIONS THAT PEOPLE THAT DO THIS TYPE OF WORK, FIRST AND FOREMOST, THEY LIKE HORSES.

THEIR EXPERIENCE IN SALES AND MARKETING, THEY HAVE STRONG INTERPERSONAL COMMUNICATION SKILLS. THEY HAVE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO. SOME OF THOSE SKILLS COULD TRANSLATE INTO OPPORTUNITIES WITH OTHER TYPE OF TOUR GUIDE OPERATIONS DOWNTOWN.

THEN LASTLY, AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, WE THOUGHT THE OPTION OF THEM, PERHAPS, WANTING TO START THEIR OWN BUSINESS MIGHT BE SOMETHING THEY WANT TO EXPLORE.

IF THAT IS THE CASE, WITH HE WOULD DEFINITELY WANT TO CONNECT THEM WITH LAUNCH SA FROM A BUSINESS PLANNING PERSPECTIVE AND THEN WITH LIFTFUND BECAUSE WE DO SUPPORT A 0% INTEREST PROGRAM -- 0% LOAN PROGRAM THAT WE WOULD WANT TO MAKE AVAILABLE TO THEM AS WELL SHOULD THEY CHOOSE TO LAUNCH THAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITY.

SO THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF THE OPTIONS THAT WE STARTED EXPLORING.

OUR NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO ACTUALLY MEET WITH DRIVERS, SHARE SOME OF THESE THOUGHTS WITH THEM, GET THEIR INPUT, AND SEE HOW THESE OPTIONS COULD FURTHER BE REFINED FOR THEM. WITH THAT --

>> SO THAT COMPLETES STAFF'S BRIEFING, AND WE'RE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND AWAIT NEXT STEPS FROM THE COUNCIL.

THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND LEAD OFF SOME COMMENTS THAT I WANT TO SHARE WITH THE COMMITTEE. I HEARD A COUPLE CHALLENGES HERE TODAY.

ONE CHALLENGE WAS TO COME OUT AND SEE THE CARRIAGES OPERATING FOR MYSELF, TO SEE HOW THE ANIMALS ARE TREATED, HOW THEY LOOK OUT THERE.

SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER DOING. I'VE ALREADY BEEN OUT TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE BARNS. ONE THING THAT WAS MENTIONED WAS THAT THERE ARE RESCUE GROUPS THAT ARE WILLING TO COME AND TAKE THESE ANIMALS IF THE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY IS SHUT DOWN. BUT I HAVEN'T HAD THEM WRITE ANYTHING TO ME. THEY HAVEN'T COME TO PRESENT THEMSELVES TODAY TO SAY HOW THEY WOULD DO THAT. SO I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THEM COME FORWARD AND TELL US HOW THEY WOULD TAKE CARE OF THE ANIMALS SINCE THAT IS ONE OF THE PRIME CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE AN OBJECTION ARE SHOWING.

I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE SURVEY. SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, AMONG THE TOURISTS, WHICH WAS 21.66%, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THEIR PERCENTAGE OF CONTINUING THE OPERATIONS WERE? WE KNOW IT WAS ABOUT 52% AGAINST OUT OF THE TOTAL. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, OUT OF THE TOURISTS, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEM WERE FOR SHUTTING IT DOWN? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEM WERE FOR KEEPING THE

OPERATION? >> SO FOR THE TOURISTS, WHICH WE HAD 10,931 RESPOND TO THAT QUESTION, 63.69% SAID THEY WOULD SUPPORT

TRANSITIONING. THAT'S 6,580. >> OKAY.

SO TRANSITIONING? >> YES. >> SO WHAT DID THEY MEAN

[01:05:01]

BY THAT? WOULD THAT BE ELIMINATING OR USING

DIFFERENT OPTIONS? >> SO THE OPTION WAS TRANSITION HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES TO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AND PE DI-CABS AND DRAWN HORSE DRAWN

CARRIAGES COMPLETELY. >> WE ARE A TOURIST CITY.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HEAR FROM THE TOURISTS ABOUT THAT.

THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT. I WAS CONCERNED THAT WE COULDN'T FIND ANOTHER VET TO GO AND LOOK AND CHECK THESE ANIMALS.

YOU CONTACTED FIVE, AND THEY ALL DECLINED. I'M SURPRISED WE DIDN'T GO MAYBE FURTHER AWAY FROM SAN ANTONIO WHERE WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND

OTHERS WHO ARE WILLING TO COME IN AND DO IT. >> COUNCILMEMBER, WE HAVE REACHED AS FAR AS DOWN SOUTH AS LAVERNIA AND WE HAVE A CALL TO [INDISCERNIBLE] TO THEIR EQUINE VET TO SEE IF THEY ARE WILLING TO DO IT. WE SATURATED THIS AREA TO YOUR QUESTION, WE HAVEN'T GONE AS FAR SOUTH AS CORPUS OR AS FAR NORTH AS AUSTIN TO

ASK THAT QUESTION. WE CERTAINLY CAN. >> OKAY.

THERE WAS A -- SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW THE WORKERS MIGHT TRANSITION INTO SOMETHING ELSE. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THE COMPANIES OR THE OWNERS AND HOW THEY MAY TRANSITION.

WAS THAT DISCUSSED, AND DID WE HAVE ANYTHING ON THAT?

>> NO. THE FOCUS OF THE OPTIONS THAT WERE PRESENTED SO FAR WERE REALLY FOCUSED ON THE WORKFORCE OF THE ACTUAL OPERATORS OF THE ACTUAL DRIVERS. I'M SORRY. I THINK I MIGHT HAVE FORGOTTEN TO MENTION ONE OF THE PRIMARY OPTIONS AS WELL, WHICH IS READY TO WORK. THE IDEA OF DRIVERS BEING ABLE TO TRANSITION INTO OCCUPATIONS IN THOSE FIELDS, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE FLEXIBILITY THAT THEIR CURRENT SCHEDULE ALLOWS, THAT'S HIGHLY COMPATIBLE WITH GOING INTO ANY TRAINING, IF THERE'S A PHASE TO THIS POLICY.

>> ANOTHER COMMENT I'LL MAKE IS ABOUT SURVEYS IN GENERAL.

A LOT OF SURVEYS CAN GO OUT, IF THERE ISN'T SUFFICIENT DETAIL AND EDUCATION ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ARE RESPONDING TO, A LOT OF TIMES SURVEYS DON'T TELL US ENOUGH ABOUT A SITUATION.

IF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT AND SOMEBODY SAYS, ARE YOU FOR IT OR AGAINST IT, IT'S REAL EASY TO SAY I'M FOR OR AGAINST BECAUSE YOU MAY NOT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT. I THINK THIS IS VERY COMPLEX ISSUE. I THINK THINGS HAVE BEEN SAID THAT WE HAVE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION AND DIFFERENCES IN EXPERTISE ON HOW IT SHOULD BE INTERPRETED. BUT I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT WE HAD ALMOST 50,000 PEOPLE ANSWER A SURVEY. SO THAT'S SIGNIFICANT.

I THINK THAT'S THE END OF MY COMMENTS AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

DID YOU NEED TO LEAVE EARLY? OKAY.

SO COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ HAS THE FLOOR.

THANK YOU. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO CAME OUT TO SPEAK TODAY. I APPRECIATE CITY STAFF WHO HAVE DONE THE WORK WE ASKED FOR.

VIAGRAN AND I FILED THIS BACK IN NOVEMBER OF 2022, THE INTENTION WAS ALWAYS TO BEGIN A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE FUTURE OF HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES IN SAN ANTONIO AND IT'S ONE THAT OUR COMMUNITY WAS EAGER AND WILLING TO HAVE. I PERSONALLY AT THE TIME WAS MOVED BY YEARS LONG EFFORTS TO BEGIN THIS DISCUSSION INCLUDING PETITIONED LED BY RESIDENTS CALLING FOR A BAN THAT RECEIVED THOUSANDS OF SIGNATURES WITH CONCERNS ABOUT THE WELL-BEING OF ANIMALS, ONGOING CLIMATE CRISIS, NEVER ENDING TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION DOWNTOWN. WE WANTED TO ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THE TRADITIONS OF TODAY AND NORMAL RIGHT AND JUST FOR HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES AND HOW CAN WE FACILITATE A JUST TRANSITION TO A FULL BAN? WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM OUR CONSTITUENCY, IT'S TIME TO PHASE THEM OUT. I KNOW THAT WITH CHANGE COMES CHALLENGES. WE HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO FACILITATE SOMETHING NEW, SPECIAL, AND MEMORABLE THAT BOTH RELIEVES TRAFFIC CONGESTION AND CREATES A SPECIAL EXPERIENCE TO FAMILIES AND TOURISTS.

EACH OF MY COLLEAGUES RECEIVED A MEMO FROM COUNCILMEMBER VIA VIAGRAN AND MYSELF. WE REQUEST A THREE-YEAR PLAN.

IT SHOULD INCLUDE AN ORDINANCE IN ESTABLISHING E CARRIAGES. IT SHOULD JOULE LINE PERMITTING AND HOURS, INCLUDING REDUCTION IN HOURS AND OPERATORS FROM 5 TO 2 AND ALLOWS TEN

[01:10:05]

VEHICLES EACH WHILE ONE OPERATOR IS LIMITED TO FIVE.

THIS SHOULD INCLUDE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR WORKING CONDITIONS FOR WATER BREAKS AND CONSIDERATION OF TEMPERATURE. THE PLAN SOME INCLUDE EVALUATION OF SUPPORT THAT WE CAN PROVIDE IN ACQUISITION OF E CARRIAGES AND WORKFORCE TRANSITION PLAN FOR EMPLOYEES WHO CHOOSE NOT TO CONTINUE EMPLOYMENT WITH EXISTING OPERATORS AS THEY TRANSITION TO E CARRIAGES TO INCLUDE MUCH OF WHAT WAS SAID TODAY PRIORITIZATION OF READY TO WORK, TRAINING FOR THOSE WHO DO CHOOSE THE PHASEOUT PLAN SHOULD ALSO INCLUDE TO OPERATE SEASONALLY IN PARKS DURING THAT TRANSITION. I DO SEE A LOT OF THIS MENTIONED IN STAFF SLIDES. I'D LIKE TO NOTE THAT WE WERE CONNECTED TO AN ANIMAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION, THE BRADY HUNTER FOUNDATION THAT CAN BE LOOPED INTO THE CONVERSATION. THEY CAN ALSO SUPPORT IN TRANSPORTING HORSES TO RESCUES IN AND OUT OF STATE AND THEY'RE WILLING TO BE BROUGHT IN AS A PART OF THIS PHASE-OUT PLAN AND PROVIDE THESE SERVICES. COUNCILWOMAN VIAGRAN AND I PROVIDED THREE YEARS AS A BASE. WE'RE APPROACHING TWO YEARS SINCE WH WE FILED THE CCR, SO WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH A SHORTER TRANSITION AS THE WILL OF THIS BODY. I'VE REACHED OUT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE TO SEE IF WE'VE HAD ANY CONFLICT WITH THE LAWS. ECARRIAGES WOULD BE OKAY AS LONG AS THEY FOLLOWED THE RULES. MY FIRST PRIORITY WOULD BE GETTING PARAMETERS AND REGULATIONS FOR ECARRIAGES AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND CONVENING STAKEHOLDERS TO DISCUSS THE FUTURE OPERATION OF ECARRIAGES SO THEY CAN GET MOVING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO LOOK AT POLICE HORSES AND WE SHOULD PROBABLY DO AWAY WITH THOSE AS WELL. I WOULD ASK FOR MY COLLEAGUE'S FEEDBACK BEFORE I MAKE A MOTION AT THE CONCLUSION OF THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU, CHAIR. >> COURAGE: COUNCILWOMAN ALDARETE GAVITO?

>> GAVITO: THANK YOU, CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO START BY THANKING ALL THE SPEAKERS ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

THANKS FOR MAKING THE TIME TO BE HERE TODAY AND MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD.

I'D LIKE TO THANK COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE. COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ AND VIAGRAN FOR BRINGING THIS UP.

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE RESIDENTS WHO DID TAKE THE TIME TO ANSWER THE SA SPEAKS UP. I AM IN FULL SUPPORT OF A TRANSITION PLAN AND BAN FOR HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES DOWNTOWN. I DO WANT TO THANK CITY STAFF FOR OUTLINING OPTIONS FOR WORKFORCE TRANSITION, INCLUDING READY TO WORK, TOUR GUIDE OPERATIONS, ET CETERA. MY MAIN CONCERN IS PUBLIC SAFETY, AND THAT CONFLICTS -- AND THE CONFLICT THAT EXISTS WHEN FIRST RESPONDERS ARE TRAVELING DOWNTOWN AND ENCOUNTER TRAFFIC DUE TO THE SLOW MOVEMENT OF CARRIAGES. OUR CITY SHOULD ALWAYS PRIORITIZE PUBLIC SAFETY AND WE NEED TO STRUCTURE THIS CONVERSATION WITH THAT IN MIND. I'M GLAD TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE RESCUES WHO WILL TAKE THESE HORSES SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE A SAFE TRANSITION WHILE WE PHASE THESE CARRIAGES OUT. I DO WANT TO -- I WILL SAY THAT I AM IN FAVOR OF DOING A QUICKER TRANSITION TO BE CLOSER TO A YEAR IN LENGTH.

THE RESULT OF THE SURVEY ARE CLEAR, PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE TO OUR CURRENT ENVIRONMENT REGARDING THIS INDUSTRY AND WE NEED TO FIND SOLUTIONS TO MOVE OUR CITY FORWARD. THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU, CHAIR.

>> COURAGE: THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS WANT TO MAKE COMMENT? OKAY. COUNCILPERSON KAUR?

CHAWRS THANK YOU, CHAIR. >> KAUR: THANK YOU, CHAIR.

I WANT TO THANK ALL THE PEOPLE THAT CAME OUT TO SPEAK TODAY.

WE REALLY NEED Y'ALL TO CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCESS BECAUSE I THINK OUR JOB HERE IS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE REPRESENTING THE VOICE OF OUR DISTRICTS, BUT ALSO THINKING ABOUT WHAT DOES OUR CITY NEED TO DO TO MOVE FORWARD AND GROW. SO I APPRECIATE YOU ALL. AND, OF COURSE, THANK YOU TO CITY STAFF FOR YOUR DILIGENCE ALREADY ON THIS.

I KNOW THIS IS A REQUEST ON TOP OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU ALREADY DO, SO THAT BEING SAID, I THINK AS CHAIRMEN SHUNNED, THIS IS A TOUGH -- WE'RE AT A TOUGH DECISION, RIGHT? WE'RE LOOKING AT FIVE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT HAVE SMALL BUSINESSES WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY THAT HAVE DONE A LOT TO SUPPORT THE TOURISM INDUSTRY FOR SAN ANTONIO. AND THAT MEANS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IT MEANS JOBS, IT MEANS FOLKS BEING ABLE TO ENJOY THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO ON HORSES. AND AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, AS WE SIT UP HERE, WHAT DOES OUR CITY LOOK LIKE 20 YEARS FROM NOW, AND WHAT DOES THE GROWTH AND INNOVATION THAT WE WANT TO SEE DOWNTOWN, AND HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE NOT LEAVE BEHIND THE FOLKS THAT HAVE HELPED -- HAVE GOTTEN US TO GET HERE, BUT ALSO MAKE SURE WE ARE CREATING A SAN ANTONIO THAT OUR KIDS AND OUR -- ALL OF US CAN

[01:15:01]

ENJOY IN AN EQUITABLE AND HUMANE WAY FOR ALL, AND I TRULY DO BELIEVE THAT ALL INCLUDES THE ANIMALS THAT LIVE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ACS ISSUES, OR TALKING ABOUT HORSES, I BELIEVE IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS, NOT ONLY FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, BUT ALSO FOR THE FOLKS THAT LIVE AND SEE.

SO I KNOW A LOT OF THE CHALLENGE COMES FROM THIS AS A PERCEPTION ISSUE, RIGHT? HOW DO WE KNOW WHO'S THE EXPERT? GETTING LETTERS FROM -- WE GOT LETTERS FROM VETERINARIANS THAT ARE IN OPPOSITION AND WE ALSO HEAR SPOKEN WORD FROM VETERINARIANS THAT ARE IN SUPPORT. SO A LOT OF THIS COMES DOWN TO UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS IT -- WHAT WAY CAN WE MOVE FORWARD FROM WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW? AT THE SURVEY DATA OF FOLKS THAT ARE ACTUALLY ENGAGING.

THIS IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST RESPONSES TO ANY SURVEY THAT WE'VE SEEN, WHICH I THINK IS INCREDIBLE, SO ALANNA, A SHOUTOUT TO YOUR TEAM.

I DON'T KNOW -- TRANSPARENTLY, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DID A LOT DIFFERENTLY IN THIS SITUATION, I JUST THINK FOLKS HAD OPINIONS THAT THEY WANTED TO SHARE. BUT CAN YOU COME UP AND ANSWER A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THE SURVEY FOR ME. ONE, I KNOW Y'ALL'S TEAM IS REALLY SMALL AND MIGHTY, WHICH I KEEP SAYING, SO WE NEED Y'ALL TO GET MORE HELP AND RESOURCES, BUT IT WOULD BE GREAT IF YOU COULD SEND US THE BACK END OF THE DATA SO WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND PARSE IT OUT IN DIFFERENT WAYS. DO WE HAVE DATA BY DISTRICT THAT YOU CAN

SEND OVER TO US? >> YES, WE CAN BREAK IT DOWRN TO YOUR INDIVIDUAL

COUNCIL DISTRICTS. >> KAUR: I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT.

DO WE HAVE DATA BY DOWNTOWN VERSUS -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THAT

SPECIFIC. >> FOR RESIDENTS WE DID ASK FOR THEM TO PROVIDE THEIR ZIP CODE SO THAT COULD POSSIBLY HELP US NARROW IT DOWN EVEN

FURTHER. >> KAUR: THAT WOULD BE GREAT SO WE CAN SEE DOWNTOWN RESIDENTS AND THEIR PERCEPTIONS AS WELL.

AND THE SECOND THING IS, DID YOU REMOVE FROM DUPLICATES, BASICALLY TAKE OUT ANY DATA DUPLICATES FROM THE SAME IP?

>> SO WE ANALYZED THE IP ADDRESSES, WHICH WE DID TRACK, AND THERE WERE 39,461 UNIQUE IP ADDRESSES AND 11,015 DUPLICATE IP ADDRESSES, BUT A DUPLICATE IP ADDRESS DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT'S A

DUPLICATE RESPONSE. >> KAUR: BECAUSE SOMEBODY COULD HAVE HANDED THEIR

PHONE TO SOMEBODY ELSE. >> FOR EXAMPLE, WE ANALYZED THE CITY'S IP ADDRESS AND THERE WERE 72 RESPONSES FROM USING THE CITY'S NETWORK.

>> KAUR: GOT IT. >> SO WE WENT INTO THOSE INDIVIDUAL 11,015 DUPLICATE IP ADDRESSES AND THE RESPONSES WERE VERY DIFFERENT.

>> KAUR: OH, INTERESTING. OKAY.

WELL, THAT'S GOOD. IF THERE'S -- I WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE WEREN'T LIKE CONTINUOUSLY RESPONDING TO THE SAME SURVEY, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT WAS THE CASE. BUT MAYBE FOR FUTURE, WE MAY WANT TO THINK OF A UNIQUE IDENTIFIER IN SOME WAY.

I KNOW THAT'S TRICKY BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP IT ANONYMOUS, JUST THINKING THAT WE DON'T HAVE FOR YOU TO, LIKE, PARSE THROUGH ALL OF THESE LINE ITEMS OF SURVEYS, BUT I APPRECIATE THAT.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE RESULTS BY DISTRICT ONE. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> KAUR: AND I HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF.

THINKING ABOUT THE TRANSITION OPTIONS, WHICH I THINK ARE GREAT.

AND THANK YOU TO THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT ARE IN SUPPORT OF SOME OF THESE TRANSITION OPTIONS. DO WE KNOW WHY THE

FIVE-YEAR TRANSITION OPTION WAS REQUESTED? >> YES, COUNCILWOMAN.

THE FIVE YEARS WAS AN AVERAGE THAT THE HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS ASKED FOR AS A RESULT OF DEBT THAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE, BE IT IN THEIR HORSES, STABLES, LEASES FOR STABLES, THAT TYPE OF THING.

>> KAUR: OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. AND THEN ALSO FOR -- DID YOU ALL LOOK AT WHAT OTHER PARKS OR WHAT OTHER AREAS MIGHT BE OF AN

OPTION AS DURING THE TRANSITION PART? >> SO WE LOOKED AT BRACKENRIDGE AS A POSSIBILITY. WE ALSO LOOKED AT SOUTHTOWN AS A POSSIBILITY. I WILL TELL YOU FULL TRANSPARENCY THE HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS AND OPERATORS WERE NOT IN FAVOR OF THAT AND DON'T FEEL AS THAT WOULD BE A PROFITABLE BUSINESS FOR

THEM. >> KAUR: I ALSO THINK FOLKS FROM THOSE STAKEHOLDERS IN THOSE AREAS WOULD ALSO HAVE TO BE ENGAGED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE -- WE'RE GETTING THEIR INPUT AS WELL.

OKAY. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. AND I WOULD -- I GUESS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS FOR THE EMPLOYEE TRANSITION PLANS -- SORRY, I THOUGHT OF ONE MORE THING. FOR THE EMPLOYEE TRANSITION PLANS, I'D LOVE TO SEE IN THE NEXT PHASE WHEN YOU ALL COME BACK WHEN A TIMELINE IS PROPOSED, AN ACTUAL SURVEY OR SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN SEE RESPONDENTS SELECT EACH ONE OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES, JUST BECAUSE THERE IS A LITTLE BIT CONCERN ABOUT THAT -- I LOVE THE IDEA OF THE ENTREPRENEURSHIP, THEY KNEW, BUT DO WE HAVE ENOUGH SUPPORT BUILT IN WITHIN OUR E ECOSYSTEM TO ACTUALLY MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF ALL OF THOSE EMPLOYEES WANT TO PURSUE THAT ROUTE, IF IT'S FEASIBLE. MAYBE THEY CAN EVEN GET A READY TO WORK PRESENTATION TO SEE IF THAT'S AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE AS A CONTRACT OPPORTUNITY YOU'RE NOT GETTING BENEFITS.

IT COULD BE A WAY FOR THEM TO ALSO GET BENEFITS, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT, TOO. I GUESS IN SUMMARY, MY

[01:20:04]

REQUEST WOULD BE TO WORK ON A TRANSITION PLAN AND, YOU KNOW, I ABSOLUTELY FAIR -- IF THE BUSINESS OWNERS ARE ASKING, IF THEY ARE WILLING TO DO A FIVE-YEAR TRANSITION PLAN TO SEE WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE, AND IF THERE WERE OPPORTUNITIES TO GO TO A SEPARATE AREA OR SEASONALITY AS WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A FAIR ASK.

SO THAT'S WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IN THE NEXT ITERATION ALONG WITH SOME OF THOSE OTHER SPECIFIC REQUESTS THAT I JUST MADE.

THANK YOU. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, COUNCILWOMAN.

COUNCILWOMAN CABELLO HAVRDA? HARVEY THANK YOU, CHAIR.

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE CITY TEAMS THAT WERE INVOLVED, PD, TRANSPORTATION, OUR -- WITH THE CARRIAGE OPERATORS, RESEARCHED WITH OTHER CITIES WERE DOING AND GIVEN US SOME SOLID OPTIONS TO CONSIDER.

OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S A LOT OF PASSION ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

I DID HAVE THE CHANCE TO VISIT A FACILITY ON IOWA STREET AND SPOKE WITH THE OWNER AND EMPLOYEES AND SAW THE HORSES, OBSERVED HOW THEY'RE CARED FOR.

AND LIKE A LOT OF YOU HAVE SAID TODAY, I HAVE NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW THEY'RE CARED FOR WHEN THEY'RE HOME. AS I'VE MENTIONED BEFORE, MY CONCERN IS HOW THEY'RE BEING TREATED. AND NOT EVEN HOW THEY'RE BEING TREATED. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE BEING TREATED BADLY, BUT HOW THEY'RE BEING WORKED ON THE ASPHALT STREETS OF THE CITY.

BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE CITY HERE.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE DEBATING HERE IS HOW -- HOW WE'RE MOVING FORWARD. THERE'S CONCERNS THAT OUR COMMUNITY HAS RAISED, THE -- AS FAR AS THE ALLEGATIONS THAT WE'RE NOT SERVING OUR CONSTITUENCIES, THE PA JORTY OF THIS CITY AS WE SEE FROM THE DATA IS SAYING THAT THEY WANT A BAN, AND SO I THINK THAT THIS PROPOSAL TODAY IS A FAIR COMPROMISE. I DO HAVE TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE BY THIS BODY, NOT THE PUBLIC, THAT WE'RE REQUESTING PUBLIC OPINION AND WE SAY THAT WE VALUE PUBLIC OPINION, BUT THEN WHEN WE DON'T APPRECIATE THE RESPONSE, SAYING THAT MAYBE THEY DON'T KNOW ALL OF THE INS AND OUTS OF THE ISSUES, SO I THINK THAT'S AN ATTEMPT TO NEGATE THE SURVEY, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S -- I THINK IT'S DISINGENUOUS. SO WHERE WE CAN STAND OUT, AND I THINK I HEARD FROM YOUR PRESENTATION, WAS THAT WE CAN -- FROM THOSE CITIES THAT HAVE BANNED HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, WE CAN STAND OUT BY EXPLORING WAYS OF SUPPORTING A SMOOTH TRANSITION, IF THEY WANT TO GO TO ECARRIAGES, IF THERE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF SUPPORT OR DIFFERENT KINDS OF JOBS, I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE CAN SET OURSELVES APART AND BE ABLE TO FIND, AGAIN, THAT FAIR COMPROMISE. YOU KNOW, IN NEGOTIATIONS, IF EVERYBODY COMES OUT FEELING LIKE THEY LOST, THEN IT'S PROBABLY A GOOD NEGOTIATION. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE. THE PLAN SHOULD INCLUDE, THOUGH, VERY SPECIFIC DELIVERABLES. I THINK TIMELINES, TECHNICAL SUPPORT, FINANCIAL OPTIONS FOR ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS, AND THEN, OF COURSE, WE HAVE TO THEN TALK ABOUT IF WE GO THE ROUTE OF THE ECARRIAGES, SETTING UP THOSE PERMITS AND SETTING UP THOSE FEES AND SUPPORTING ANY EMPLOYEES AND THE OWNERS THAT MIGHT WANT TO TRANSITION TO OTHER EMPLOYMENT. YOU KNOW, THE HEART OF THIS ISSUE FOR ME IS THE -- ARE THESE HORSES. SO MANY OF THE CONCERNS WERE U ALREADY BROUGHT UP TODAY, PUBLIC SAFETY, THE CARE OF THE ANIMALS, HEAT STRESS, DEHYDRATION, THE DANGERS OF TRAFFIC, AIR POLLUTION, NOISE, OVERALL STRESS ON THE ECOSYSTEM.

I THINK THAT THIS COMPROMISE ADDRESSES ALL OF THAT AND I THINK IT'S MORE THAN FAIR TO THE OPERATORS. I DO THANK THEM FOR COMING AND TALKING WITH US. I THANK THOSE THAT HAVE INVITED ME OUT TO THEIR FACILITIES AND I WAS ABLE TO GO.

I THINK THIS IS THE TRANSITION THAT'S BEEN APPROVED -- OR SORRY, IT'S NOT BEEN APPROVED. THAT'S BEEN PROPOSED, I THINK, IS SOLID.

I THINK IT'S FAIR, TO SAY THAT OVER AND OVER, I DON'T MEAN TO, BUT I THINK IT'S FAIR. I DO QUESTION MAYBE THE THREE-YEAR TIMELINE.

I'M OPEN TO SUGGESTION FROM COMMUNITY, OF COURSE FROM MY COLLEAGUES, BUT I THINK IT'S -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE IMMEDIACY OF THE CONCERN FOR THE ANIMALS, THREE YEARS IS A LONG TIME TO WAIT TO SEE THAT HORSES ARE BEING TAKEN OFF THE STREET. SO I WOULD ASK THE COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER A SHORTER TRANSITION PLAN, BUT, OF COURSE, I'M ALWAYS OPEN TO HEARING DIFFERENT OPTIONS. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU, CHAIR. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU. I'M GOING TO ADD A COUPLE MORE THOUGHTS BASED ON WHAT THE OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE SAID.

AND IT'S PRETTY APPARENT FROM WHAT WE HEARD FROM CITIZENS AND THE GIST OF WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS THAT WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD ON A TRANSITION PLAN. I THINK SOME OF WHAT WE HEARD IS IMPORTANT TO

[01:25:01]

CONSIDER, AND THAT IS THE BUSINESS OWNERS THAT -- THEMSELVES ARE OPERATING A PROFITABLE BUSINESS, AND IF WE WERE TO SAY, OKAY, IN 12 MONTHS, YOU'VE GOT TO SHUT THAT DOWN, HOW DO YOU SHUT DOWN A PROFITABLE BUSINESS AND HOW DO YOU TAKE CARE OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR YOU AND HOW DO YOU PAY OFF DEBT, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, AND HOW DO YOU GET OUT OF LONG-TERM LEASES YOU MAY HAVE IN JUST A YEAR? SO I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A BIT OF AN UNREASONABLE EXPECTATION. AND, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE ASK IN THIS IS TO OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES TO REPLACE THAT.

WE HEARD THAT THEY COST $20,000 EACH, AND SO, AGAIN, YOU'D BE LOOKING AT THE OWNERS OF THE OPERATIONS, IF THEY WANTED TO CONTINUE, HAVING TO MAKE A PRETTY BIG FINANCIAL COMMITMENT.

NOW, WE DO HAVE SMALL BUSINESS FUNDING AVAILABLE THROUGH THE LIFTFUND TO HELP BUSINESSES, AND MAYBE THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE WAYS TOHAT MAYBE THREE YEARS IS A LONG TIME, BUT I THINK ONE YEAR IS JUST NOT ENOUGH TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO GO AHEAD AND MOVE FORWARD AND REMAIN TO BE SUCCESSFUL AS INDIVIDUALS WITH THEIR COMMITMENT TO THEIR BUSINESS AND THEIR EMPLOYEES, SO I HOPE THAT ANY RECOMMENDATION COMING FORWARD WOULD BE, AT LEAST TWO YEARS. AND THAT CAN BE THE OUTSIDE LIMIT, AND ASK THEM TO COMPLETE THEIR TRANSITION BEFORE THAT, NO LATER THAN, SO TO SPEAK TWO YEARS. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I SEE A LOT OF THE POINTS THAT WERE BROUGHT FORWARD AS REASONABLE.

THE ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, THOUGH, IS REALLY A DETAIL PLAN, AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK THAT WE WOULD WANT TO SEE PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL. AND SO THAT WOULD MEAN WE'D ASK THE CITY TO GO THROUGH NOT JUST THE CHOICES, FOR EXAMPLE, ON HELPING PEOPLE GET A JOB, BUT MAYBE SETTING UP A MECHANISM THAT WOULD HELP THOSE PEOPLE BE PREPARED TO MOVE INTO ANOTHER JOB. AGAIN, WORKING WITH LOCAL FINANCE OPERATIONS TO HELP ANY OF THOSE IN TRANSITION TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT PAYING OFF DEBT OR BUYING THE ELECTRIC CARS.

THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF IT, SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THAT THE CITY STAFF PREPARE A VERY DETAILED TRANSITION PLAN BASED ON WHAT WE'VE GOT IN OUR OUTLINE HERE FROM THE CITY -- OR FROM OUR COUNCILMEMBERS, AND GIVING US -- GIVING IT A UP TO 24 MONTH PERIOD TO GET IT ESTABLISHED.

AND THEN I THINK, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO LOOK AT THAT AND MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES, BUT I'D REALLY LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE GET THE STAFF TO PUT THAT TOGETHER, LIKE THEY DO IN A LOT OF OTHER CASES WHEN WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING WITH A BUSINESS.

SO THAT'S MY RECOMMENDATION RIGHT NOW.

YES, COUNCILMAN? >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER

COMMENTS, I'M WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION FOR THAT. >> COURAGE: OKAY.

>> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: I MOVE THAT STAFF PRESENT OPTIONS FOR A ONE-YEAR AND TWO-YEAR PHASE OUT TRANSITION PLAN AT A B SESSION TO APRIL 16TH FOR COUNCIL FEEDBACK AND CONSIDERATION. SHOULD INCLUDE A CHANGE IN THE DOWNTOWN FOOTPRINT, A PHASEOUT PLAN TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF HORSE CARRIAGES OPERATING DURING THE TRANSITION AND OPTIONS TO PROVIDE SUP FORT FOR THE TRANSITION TO ECHARGES CHARGES.

>> HAVRDA: I'LL SECOND. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: A B SESSION BETWEEN

SEPTEMBER 18TH TO OCTOBER 16TH. >> OKAY.

I JUST WONDER IF THERE'S ANY FLEXIBILITY THERE? I KNOW THERE'S LOTS GOING ON. I DON'T HAVE THE CALENDAR IN FRONT OF ME.

I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THERE MAY BE SOME NEED TO FLEX THERE, IN PARTICULAR TO GET STAFF READY IN TIME, AND ALSO BASED ON WHAT'S ON THE SCHEDULE. I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

>> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: I'D BE WILLING TO -- LET'S DO --

>> END OF OCTOBER IS FAIR. DO I NEED TO RESTATE ALL THAT?

>> MOTION THAT'S BEEN MADE AND SECONDED FOR THE CITY STAFF TO DEVELOP A TRANSITION PLAN. YES, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION?

> >> KAUR: I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF MY COLLEAGUES WOULD BE OPEN TO A TWO- AND THREE-YEAR. I JUST FEEL LIKE A PHASEOUT FOR ANYTHING IN ONE YEAR IS REALLY DIFFICULT IN TERMS OF --

[APPLAUSE] >> COURAGE: PLEASE, QUIET.

>> KAUR: YEAH. IN TERMS OF JUST FOR CHANGE IN JOBS AND EMPLOYMENT. LIKE I THINK TWO YEARS WOULD BE GREAT, BUT -- I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF HAS A COMMENT ON ONE, TWO AND THREE.

[01:30:02]

I DON'T WANT TO GIVE Y'ALL MORE WORK, BUT I'M JUST THINKING ABOUT LONGEVITY FOR THE BUSINESSES. BUT IF NOT, I WILL

SUPPORT THIS MOTION. >>

>> VILLAGOMEZ: GOOD AFTERNOON, MEMBERS OF THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE, MARIA VILLAGOMEZ, C DEPUTY CITY MANAGER. FOR PURPOSES OF THE TRANSITION, WE CAN PROVIDE THE OPTIONS FROM ANYWHERE FROM 12 UP TO 36 MONTHS, AND THEN WE CAN DEVELOP SOME MILESTONES AND THAT WAY WE CAN GIVE

YOU OPTIONS FOR YOU TO DECIDE. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: I'LL

ACCEPT A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. >> KAUR: FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO RECEIVE A TRANSITION PLAN FROM 12 TO 36 MONTHS.

>> COURAGE: OKAY. IF THE MAKER ACCEPTS IT AND THE COMAKER --

SECONDER ACCEPTS IT. >> SECOND. >> COURAGE: OKAY.

SO THEN WE HAVE A MOTION BEFORE US FOR THE CITY STAFF TO DEVELOP THE TRANSITION PLAN AWAY FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN SAN ANTONIO.

THAT PLAN WILL INCORPORATE A ONE- OR A TWO-OR A THREE-YEAR TIME FRAME AND IT WILL COME TO US IN A B SESSION BETWEEN THE 15TH OF SEPTEMBER AND THE -- THE 18TH OF SEPTEMBER AND THE 31ST OF OCTOBER.

OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS ON THAT? HEARING NONE, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. (AYES.)

>> COURAGE: OKAY. ANY OPPOSED? HEARING NONE, THE WORK OF THE COMMITTEE IS DONE FOR TODAY. WE ARE

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.