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GOOD[ Roll Call ]
MORNING, JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS, THIS MORNING.
THIS IS THE SECOND MEETING OF THE ELECTRICAL CODE SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD.
UH, LOOKING AT REVIEWING THE 2023 NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE.
WE'LL, UH, START OFF WITH A QUICK, I'LL GO AHEAD AND DO THE INTERPRETERS REAL FAST.
SPANISH TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE DURING THIS MEETING.
THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH.
TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE FOR APPLICANTS AND THOSE THAT HAVE SIGNED UP TO RECEIVE A CALLBACK.
IN ADDITION, IF, UH, REQUESTED PRIOR TO THE MEETING, WE ALSO ARE AVAILABLE TO, UH, ADD AMERICAN SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETATION AS NEEDED.
UH, BEFORE WE GO TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE, WE'LL DO A QUICK ROLL CALL FOR QUORUM.
WE HAVE, UH, FOUR OF THE FIVE PRIMARIES PRESENT.
UH, LAN'S THE ONLY ONE MISSING.
WE ALSO HAVE, UH, MICHAEL ROSS, WHO I HAVE AS THE ALTERNATE TO MARK ROSS.
SO ANY VOTE WILL GO TO MARK ROSS AND, UH, GARY KOONS AS ALTERNATE TO EDWARDS.
SO ANY VOTE WILL GO TO EDWARD, UH, WHILE THEY'RE STILL PRESENT.
UH, BUT WE DO HAVE QUORUM SO WE CAN
[ Approval of Minutes ]
MOVE TO AGENDA.CAN WE PULL THE AGENDA UP SO WE CAN SEE IT? OH, THAT'S THE, THAT'S BASICALLY THE AGENDA.
WE JUST HAVE IT MORE IN THE POWERPOINT FORM.
SO LAST TIME WE GOT, UH, THROUGH QUITE A BIT OF, OF, UH, THE ARTICLES IN QUESTIONS.
SO STARTING WITH CHAPTER ONE AND MOST OF THE WAY THROUGH CHAPTER FOUR, UH, WE FINISHED OFF OF, UH, FOUR 40.8.
SO THAT SHOULD BRING US TO 4 45 POINT 18 A, UH, REAL QUICK CHAIR.
WE WANNA DO, UH, THE MANY MINUTES? THE MINUTES, YEAH, THE MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING.
UM, DO WE HAVE ANY, DO WE HAVE A MOTION REGARDING THE MINUTES? ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE MINUTES? SO, MAY WE HAVE A MOTION, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? IF, IF I CAN MAKE A COMMENT REAL QUICK.
WILL THERE BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY COMMENTS ABOUT THE LAST WEEK'S MEETING, UM, OVER THE MINUTES OR SPECIFIC AGENDA ITEMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED? SPECIFIC ITEM? OH YEAH, DEFINITELY.
UH, THE, THE AGENDA ITEM IS BASICALLY NEC 2023.
SO, UH, AS A COMMITTEE, Y'ALL CAN, UH, REVISIT ANY OF THOSE ITEMS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE.
SO WE DEL TORO I'LL, UH, SECOND.
SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE PRIOR MEETING.
[ Public Comments ]
[ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items ]
TWO, WE CAN TABLE, UH, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO ADD ANY, UH, NEW ADDITIONAL SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS OR REMOVE ANY SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS.SO, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE AND AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR.
'CAUSE WE MIGHT GET TO THAT TODAY.
UH, SO THREE IS THE DISCUSSION OF THE 2023 NEC WITH ANY PROPOSED AMENDMENTS, UH, TO BE, UH, CAPTURED IN CHAPTER 10 OF THE I OF THE CITY CODES, AS WELL AS OTHER SECTIONS OF CHAPTER 10 THAT DON'T PERTAIN SPECIFICALLY TO THE NEC.
THIS IS MORE REGISTRATION, UH, PERMITTING.
ANYTHING THAT WE MIGHT DISCUSS THAT DOESN'T FALL UNDER THE NEC UH, WOULD BE A AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR.
SO IF WE GET TO A AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR, I THINK THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ITEMS AT THE END OF THE LIST, IF WE GET TO THAT TODAY, THEN WE'LL NEED TO DO TWO MOTIONS.
UH, CLARIFY AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE SPECIFIC TO THE NEC, AND THEN ANY OTHER AGENDA ITEMS, UH, WOULD FALL UNDER, UM, ANY OTHER ITEMS WOULD'VE FALLEN UNDER AGENDA FOUR.
I'LL TURN IT OVER TO, UH, CHIEF VALE GLEASON AND ASSISTANT DIRECTOR CRYSTAL GONZALEZ.
THIS IS VALERIE GLEASON, CHIEF ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR.
I BELIEVE WE WERE GOING TO REVISIT FOUR 40.8, UH, FOR THE AC REFRIGERATION EQUIPMENT NOT TO BE INSTALLED OVER A TUB OR A SHOWER.
UM, I WAS ABLE TO OBTAIN SOME CLARIFICATION FROM THE IAEI ANALYSIS OF CHANGES.
AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT SAID WAS IT WAS TALKING ABOUT WALL MOUNTED EQUIPMENT.
IT WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE EQUIPMENT THAT WAS ABOVE
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A BARRIER OR A DOOR WITHIN THE SHOWER SPACE, OR MOSTLY MOST OFTEN A BATHTUB SPACE.SO I KNOW THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER THAT EQUIPMENT AND NEW INSTALLATIONS WOULD BE ALLOWED TO, TO GO BACK INTO THAT AREA.
SO TO CLARIFY, AIR HANDLER FURNACE UNIT ABOVE THE CEILING OF THE TUB SPACE IS NOT IMPACTED BY THIS.
THIS IS STRICTLY IF YOU WANTED TO BASICALLY SURFACE MOUNT A SOME KIND OF EQUIPMENT ON THE INSIDE OF THE SHOWER.
UM, BASICALLY I THINK WHAT THE INTENT WAS IS APPARENTLY MANY SPLITS DOES SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
UM, I, I VISITED WITH OUR MECHANICAL STAFF.
IT HASN'T HAPPENED HERE, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN IT HASN'T HAPPENED SOMEWHERE.
SO, SO CAN WE JUST ADD AN AMENDMENT THAT CLARIFIES THAT SO THAT IT'S CRYSTAL CLEAR? BECAUSE I THINK WHEN I READ IT, IT IT WAS ANYTHING.
AND SO I'D LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE JUST ADD A EXTERIOR, ADD A CLARIFICATION THAT IT'S EXTERIOR MOUNTED AIR HAMMERS OR MAYBE, UH, FOR WALL MOUNTED, UH, TO PREVENT WALL MOUNTED AND TO ALLOW ABOVE THE CEILING AS LONG AS THERE'S A BARRIER IN PLACE.
I MEAN, I THINK IF YOU JUST SAY IF WALL MOUNTED, WALL MOUNTED, EVERYTHING ELSE IS, SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, SO IF IT'S ABOVE THE SHEET ROCK, IT'S OKAY.
WOULD THAT BE A, WOULD THAT BE AN AMENDMENT OR WOULD THAT BE LIKE SOME KIND OF LIKE, ID OR, OR SOME KIND OF, UM, CODE OF OFFICIAL'S INTERPRETATION? I MEAN IT, GO AHEAD, CHRIS.
SO WE WOULD, UM, WE WOULD WANNA SEE THAT AS AN AMENDMENT.
SO IT'S ABSOLUTELY CLEAR A CODE INTERPRETATION WE USUALLY TRY TO BRING INTO THE AMENDMENTS.
UM, SO IF WE ADOPTED THIS AND THEN WE SOLVE PROBLEMS, WE WOULD WRITE A CODE INTERPRETATION TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR.
UM, SO SINCE WE'RE DISCUSSING THIS NOW, WE WOULD EXPECT TO SEE THAT, UM, IT'S AN AMENDMENT, UM, RATHER THAN AN IB, WHICH IS, IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE CODE.
IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE INFORMATIONAL ONLY.
THIS IS OUR PROCESS, THIS IS OUR PROCEDURE.
THIS IS HOW YOU DO BUSINESS IN THE CITY.
UM, BUT IF WE WANTED TO CLARIFY THIS, WE WOULD EXPECT TO SEE IT IN AMENDMENTS.
SO, UH, MOVING ON, UH, WE WERE LOOKING AT 4 45 POINT 18 A, UM, GENERATORS FOR INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCIES SHALL HAVE THE DISCONNECTING MEANS ON THE EXTERIOR AND IT SHOULDN'T BE OF THE DISCONNECT SHOULD BE OF THE RESIDENCE.
I HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL ITEM THAT WE TABLED FROM LAST TIME.
THAT WAS TWO 30 POINT 30 BCPS IS GONNA REVIEW AND COMMENT.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THAT.
I BELIEVE THE ISSUE ON THAT WAS IDENTIFYING DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT, UH, WIRING METHODS AND CONCRETE ENCASEMENT.
YEAH, IT WAS, IT WAS THE CONCRETE ENCASEMENT.
UM, AND, AND EVENTS THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, LIKE FOR LIKE, IF, IF THERE'S A PROVISION FOR, FOR GRANDFATHERING, UM, AGAIN, WE COME ACROSS IT FROM TIME TO TIME WHEN WE HAVE TO REPLACE TRANSFORMERS AND THEY CAN'T GO BACK INTO THE EXISTING LOCATION.
UM, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE KIND OF LOOKING FOR.
THAT WAS THE, UH, CHAPTER 10 SECTION WHERE WE USED TO REQUIRE ENCASEMENT OF PVC, UH, N-U-C-C-H-D-P-P AND RTRC ON SERVICE LATERALS FROM PAD MOUNTED TRANSFORMERS ONLY.
AND I THINK WHAT CP S'S CONCERN WAS FOR EXISTING CONDITIONS TO HAVE THEM ALLOWED TO GO BACK IN THE WAY THEY WERE, IS THAT CORRECT? YES.
TO GO BACK IN THE WAY THEY WERE.
UM, AND IN, IN NON, I GUESS NON-DRIVABLE SURFACES AS WELL.
WHERE, WHERE WE REFER TO CONCRETE ENCASEMENT OR FLOWABLE FILL ACTUALLY IS WHAT WE REFER TO.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF IF THERE'S A DIFFERENTIATION OR DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT YOU ARE YOU'RE
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LOOKING FOR.UM, BUT IN, IN DRIVABLE SURFACES WE USE FLOWABLE FILL.
I KNOW, RON, YOU'RE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH WHEN WE USED TO REQUIRE THIS AND IT WAS OMITTED IN THE LAST CHAPTER 10 BECAUSE PART OF THIS SECTION, UH, DID NOT PERMIT WIRING METHODS THAT ARE IN THIS LIST AND WE'RE NOT PROPOSING THAT OBVIOUSLY.
SO DO WE NEED TO MAYBE BE WORD AROUND THAT TO MAKE IT FLOWABLE FILL OR, I WOULD, I WOULD CAUTION ON THE FLOWABLE FILL BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF MORE OF A GENERIC TERM.
IT DOESN'T GET ENOUGH SPECIFIC.
SO WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND WE DO IS IDENTIFY THE SPECIFIC, UH, CONCRETE MIX THAT WOULD BE ADMISSIBLE.
I THINK, LIKE RON SAID, THE FLOWABLE FILL IS KIND OF GENERIC.
SO COME UP WITH A CERTAIN PSI REQUIREMENT OR YEAH.
UM, I THINK WE NEED TO CHECK AND SEE IF THERE'S A, A MORE INDUSTRY STANDARD TERM.
UM, SO I KNOW WE USE THE TERM FLOWABLE FILL ALL, ALL THE TIME.
BUT WHEN YOU START GETTING MIXED CALCULATIONS AND, AND DIFFERENT THINGS FROM THE VARIOUS CONCRETE SUPPLIERS MM-HMM.
YOU CAN ORDER IT THAT WAY, BUT THAT'S NOT THE WAY THAT THEY REFER TO IT.
WE CREATE A GENERIC TERM MM-HMM.
SO I CAN, UM, GET WITH THEM WITH CPS AND WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING, CHECK INTO WHAT CONCRETE STRENGTH WE'RE LOOKING AT, WHAT DEFINED AMOUNT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
MAYBE JUST THE MINIMUM AMOUNT, THE MINIMUM PSI OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING PROBABLY.
SO IT JUST REALLY AFFORDS A BETTER PROTECTION WHEN WE HAVE THESE PLASTIC CONDUITS, BUT IT'S ONLY FOR THE PAD MOUNTS ON COMMERCIAL INSTALLATIONS DOESN'T APPLY TO THE APARTMENTS AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO UNLESS IT'S LIKE A THREE PHASE TRANSFER TAP BOX EXCEPT FOR THE THREE PHASE.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE EVEN REQUIRED IT FOR THOSE BACK THEN, SO THAT WE DIDN'T SEE TOO MANY THREE PHASE APARTMENT COMPLEXES LIKE WE DO NOW.
AND THIS, UM, MR. MCG GROSS, THE, THE BOOK READS A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY THAN THE, THAN THE IC BOOKS.
THIS NUMBER 11, HAS THAT BEEN REVISED OUT? WHAT THAT IS THE REASON THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE, THE AMENDMENT NUMBER 11 IN BOOK, THERE'S A NUMBER 11 TYPE TCER CABLE WHERE IDENTIFIES WITH SERVICE ENTRANCE USE IN DIRECT BURIAL APPLICATIONS.
WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S PUT BACK IN.
WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO RESTRICT ANY MATERIALS.
SO CAN WE JUST ADD THE SHADED LANGUAGE INTO THE AMENDMENT? YEAH.
SO I'M JUST MAKING THAT ANNOUNCEMENT REAL QUICK FOR THE RECORD.
UM, SO THE NEXT ONE, THIS WAS ALSO SOMETHING WE'RE PROPOSING TO MOVE INTO THE CHAPTER 10.
BY ELIMINATING THIS PART OF THIS SECTION IN 4 45 18, UH, THE GENERATORS FOR, UH, INDIVIDUAL OCCUPANTS SHOULD HAVE THE DISCONNECTING MEANS ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
SIGNAGE SHALL BE PROVIDED AT THE SERVICE DISCONNECT INDICATING THE LOCATION OF OTHER DISCONNECTING MEANS.
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ELIMINATING THE SECTION THAT'S GOT THE LINE DRAW THROUGH IT.THE REASONING IS, IS A COUPLE OF THE GENERATOR MANUFACTURERS ACTUALLY HAVE THEIR DISCONNECTING MEANS ON THE INTERIOR OF THE EQUIPMENT WHERE YOU'D HAVE TO LIFT THE LID.
SO IN THE INTEREST OF OUR FIRST RESPONDERS, WE WERE PROPOSING AN ADDITIONAL DISCONNECTING MEANS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE EQUIPMENT.
SO WE REALLY HAD A LOT OF GENERATORS COMING IN IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, EVER SINCE THE SNOW STORM.
SO, BUT IF, IF THE EQUIPMENT HAS A DISCONNECT, MEANS MM-HMM.
WHAT, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? I MEAN, WELL, IT'S, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE EMERGENCY SITUATION.
I DID VISIT WITH OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT INSPECTORS ON THIS, UM, AND THEY FELT LIKE IN THE INTERESTS OR THE EX INTEREST OF EXPEDIENCY BEING ABLE TO GET TO IT, LIFTING THE LID, IT'S MORE FOR THEM, IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S EVIDENT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE EQUIPMENT OR ADJACENT TO THE EQUIPMENT, IS EASIER FOR THEM TO FIND.
SO HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH DOES OF THE DISCONNECT BY A COUPLE OF HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR THE INSTALLATION?
IT WOULD MERELY BE AN ISOLATION, NON FUSED NONCURRENT PROTECTION DISCONNECT.
I BELIEVE BRANDS LIKE GENERAC ALREADY HAVE AN EXTERIOR MOUNTED DISCONNECT.
SOME OF THEM, IT'S JUST, YOU HAVE TO LIFT THAT LID AND SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY LOCK THAT CLOSE.
AND I REALIZED, YES, FIRE DEPARTMENT CAN CUT THAT LOCK, BUT IT'S ONE ADDITIONAL MOTION OR, OR SITUATION THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
BUT THEY CAN LOCK, I MEAN, JUST LIKE THEY CAN LOCK THE DISCONNECT RIGHT NOW, BUT BOTH THERE'S A, ALL THE ONES THAT HAVE THAT LITTLE
I MEAN, I JUST THINK IT'S OVERKILL.
MOST OF YOUR RESIDENTIAL GRADE DISCONNECTING SWITCHES ARE GONNA BE LOCKABLE IN THE OFF POSITION, NOT IN THE OFF POSITION.
THERE ACTUALLY IS A REQUIREMENT THIS TIME AROUND THAT ANY DISCONNECTING MEANS LIKE THAT HAS TO BE KEPT, UM, BASICALLY LOCKED OR MEANS TO KEEP IT CLOSED FROM UNQUALIFIED PERSONNEL IF IT'S ACCESSIBLE.
SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A LOCK, IT CAN BE A DISCONNECTING MEANS.
SO ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THIS ONE OR? SO IF THE GENERATOR HAS A DISCONNECTING MEANS INSIDE A PANEL, THE GENERATOR STILL HAS TO CONNECT TO THE HOME POWER, RIGHT? MM-HMM,
SO IF I'M A FIRST RESPONDER AND I NEED TO, TO DISCONNECT POWER TO THE HOME, THAT HAPPENS AT THE SAME PLACE GENERALLY, RIGHT? BECAUSE AREN'T YOU STILL PUTTING POWER IN THROUGH WHERE THE WELL, IF YOU LOSE POWER THERE VIA THE TRANSFER SWITCH, THE GENERATOR'S GONNA KICK IN.
I KNOW, BUT THE POWER FROM THE GENERATOR STILL ENTERS THE HOUSE AT THE SAME PLACE.
'CAUSE THAT'S HOW THE WIRING IS.
ALL IT ENTERS THROUGH A TRANSFER SWITCH.
AND THEN IT GOES, THEY, THESE NEW PERMANENT GENERATORS THAT THEY'RE PUTTING IN, MOST OF 'EM ARE NATURAL GAS.
A FEW OF THEM THEY ARE, ARE HOOKING UP WITH PROPANE.
THEY ACTUALLY CUT IN A NEW TRANSFER SWITCH THAT THEN BECOMES IN PLACE OF THE ORIGINAL SERVICE DISCONNECT.
IT ACTUALLY HAS NO RECURRENT DEVICE INSIDE OF IT.
SO IT WOULD REMAIN HOT UP TO THAT POINT.
UP TO THE POINT OF WHERE IT ENTERS THE HOUSE.
NO, UP TO THE POINT OF THAT TRANSFER SWITCH.
WHICH, WHICH WOULD HAVE A DISCONNECT AT THAT POINT.
WELL, THE TRANSFER SWITCH SWITCHES FROM THE NORMAL.
BUT YOU STILL NEEDED A CPS DISCONNECT.
THE THE ISSUE IS THAT ONCE YOU LOSE MAIN POWER, YOUR GENERATOR'S RUNNING AND IT'S POWERING THROUGH THE TRANSFER SWITCH BACK TO EVERYTHING ELSE.
AND SO THE ONLY WAY TO ISOLATE THE GENERATOR TO BE GO BACK TO THE, TO THE GENERATORS DISCONNECTING SWITCH.
SO YOU'RE, YOU, YOU CAN'T JUST HANDLE IT.
YOU WOULDN'T FLIP IT AT JUST ONE LOCATION.
YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD, IF YOU WERE THINKING TO ISOLATE FROM THE HOUSE AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE DOING THE GENERATOR, YOU WOULDN'T, THE, THE MINUTE YOU, YOU KILL THE HOUSE POWER YOUR GENERATOR'S KICKING ON.
I, UH, UH, UH, HERE'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO.
WHAT WE DON'T WANNA DO IS MAKE GENERATORS ILLEGAL, BUT PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT IT AND BEEN MANUFACTURED.
SO, OR, OR LIKE THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO CHANGE THE STRUCTURE OF THE GENERATOR.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU'RE SAYING YOU NEED TO HAVE A DISCONNECTING SWITCH, IT CAN'T BE IN A PANEL THAT IT CAN BE IN THE PATH FROM THE GENERATOR TO WHERE IT CONNECTS TO THE HOUSE.
SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, MAKE OBSOLETE GENERATORS THAT ARE
THE, THE GENERATORS HAVE A BUILT-IN DISCONNECTING MEANS.
UM, IT'S JUST SOME OF THEM ARE BUILT, THEY'RE PUT IN INSIDE THE UNIT WHERE YOU HAVE TO LIFT THE TOP TO GET TO 'EM.
OTHERS HAVE THE DISCONNECT ON THE OUTSIDE.
WHAT I, WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET THAT TO
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IS THAT THE ONES THAT HAVE IT BEHIND A PANEL, UHHUH CAN STILL BE USED UHHUH.IT JUST MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO ADD SOME KIND OF DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE GENERATOR AND THE HOUSE.
WE WERE JUST, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO.
WE WERE ASKING FOR ONE ADDITIONAL BETWEEN THE TRANSFER SWITCH AND THE GENERATOR.
AND THAT ONE WOULD HAVE TO BE LIKE A, A PULL ONE WHERE THERE'S NO LID ON.
IT CAN'T BE JUST LIKE A FLIP OVER BOX, LIKE ON, ON OUR AIR CONDITION STUFF.
THE THE LID WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THE ACTUAL LID OF THE GENERATOR.
I MEAN, ANY PANEL ON THE OUTSIDE HAS A COVER OVER THE DISCONNECTING MEANS.
SO UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A HUGE DISCONNECT, WHAT THE ISSUE'S GONNA END UP BEING IS THAT THE GENERATORS ARE IN, UH, A WEATHERPROOF ENCLOSURE.
AND THOSE WEATHERPROOF ENCLOSURES IS WHERE THE PROBLEM COMES IN, WHERE IT'S A TRADITIONAL DISCONNECT.
AND MARK, TO YOUR POINT THAT THEY DO MAKE DIFFERENT ONES WHERE YOU'VE GOT THE REMOVABLE BLOCK THAT'S INSIDE THE UNIT.
THAT'S, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT SITUATION.
SOMETHING THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S FAMILIAR WITH.
DEPARTMENT COMES ON THE SCENE AND YOU GOT VARIOUS VARIETIES OF GENERATORS AND WEATHERPROOF ENCLOSURES.
HOW DO THEY ACCESS THE DISCONNECTING MEANS IT'S INSIDE EACH ONE OF THESE DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS.
UH, THE CHANGE JUST LISTS THE TYPES OF TRANSFORMERS THE ARTICLE DOESN'T COVER.
UH, FOUR 50.2 TRANSFORMERS SHALL INDIVIDUALLY COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ARTICLE.
UNLESS SPECIFIC PROVISIONS ARE ALLOWED FOR INTERCONNECTION OR OPERATION AS A SINGLE UNIT, UM, DROPPED OVER TO FOUR 70.2.
RECONDITIONED RESISTORS SHALL NOT BE PERMITTED.
AND RECONDITIONED REACTORS SHALL NOT BE PERMITTED.
THEY SHALL BE, IT SHALL NOT SHALL.
RECONDITIONING REACTORS, SHELBY.
SO BASICALLY YES, YOU'RE CORRECT, MARK.
UH, ARTICLE 4 95, WE KIND OF SKIPPED DOWN.
IT SAYS, NEW ARTICLE COVERING EQUIPMENT OVER A THOUSAND VOLTS AC OR 1500 VOLTS DC SKIPPING OVER TO 500.1 A AND B CLARIFIES WHAT THE ARTICLE COVERS AND WHAT ISN'T COVERED.
500.4, UH, WHICH WE THINK IS A, A REAL HELP TO OUR PLAN REVIEW FOLKS AND OUR INSPECTORS, IT REQUIRES DOCUMENTED DRAWINGS TO SPECIFICALLY LIST CLASSIFIED AND UNCLASSIFIED AREAS FOR HAZARDOUS LOCATIONS.
500.5 D ONE CLARIFICATIONS FOR COMBUSTIBLE FLYERS AND FIBERS AND FLYING AND IGNITABLE FIBERS AND FLYING TO ALIGN.
ALIGN WITH NEW, UH, DEFINITIONS.
ADDITIONAL PROTECTION PROTECTION TECHNIQUES NEEDS 500.8 D TWO AND THREE, UH, LANGUAGE LINE WITH NEW DEFINITIONS OF THE COMBUSTIBLE FLYERS.
AND FIVE A, I'M SORRY, FLYING 500.
5 0 5 0.9 C REFERENCES NEW TABLES IN CHAPTER NINE, TABLE 13 EQUIPMENT SUITABLE FOR HAZARDOUS LOCATIONS.
ARTICLE FIVE 12 IS A NEW ARTICLE FOR CANNABIS OIL EQUIPMENT AND CANNABIS OIL SYSTEMS USING FLAMMABLE MATERIALS.
CAN YOU SLOW DOWN A LITTLE BIT? SURE.
UM, FLAMMABLE COMBUSTIBLE LOCATIONS.
IT ADDED ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THE FIBERS AND FLYING, UH, THE TABLE THAT IT ADDED TO THE BACK, UH, IN CHAPTER NINE.
IT'S A MORE EXTENSIVE TABLE FOR EQUIPMENT SUITABLE FOR THOSE HAZARDOUS LOCATIONS.
RATHER THAN KEEPING IT IN THE ARTICLE, IT EXPANDED IT AND MOVED IT BACK IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK.
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COURSE, WITH CANNABIS OIL, IT'S, UH, HIGHLY FLAMMABLE.SO I GUESS WITH SO MANY STATES PASSING IT, THEY NOW HAVE TO ADDRESS IT'S PRODUCTION.
IS IS IT LEGAL IN TEXAS? NOT YET, I DON'T THINK.
I GUESS MEDICAL GRADE WOULD APPLY.
AND THE, AND THE OTHER THING WITH FIVE 12 IS THE ENTIRE ARTICLE IS NEW.
SOMETHING SPECIFIC ABOUT CANNABIS OIL.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT LIKE APPLICABLE FROM OTHER FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS.
IT'S, IT'S KIND OF LIKE SOME OF THE OTHER SPECIFIC ARTICLES IN 500 WHERE WE DEAL WITH GAS STATIONS AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, AIRCRAFT, LOCATIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO I GUESS MAYBE 'CAUSE THERE'S SPECIAL APPLICATIONS TO SOME OF THOSE EQUIPMENT, SOME OF THOSE LOCATIONS, AND THAT'S WHY THEY CREATED A SPECIAL ARTICLE FOR IT.
SO, UH, FIVE 17.6 RECONDITIONING REQUIREMENTS OF THIS CODE SHALL NOT APPLY TO PATIENT CARE RELATED ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT.
HAVE OTHER AREAS, I BELIEVE WHERE CERTAIN OVER CURRENT DEVICES AND THINGS LIKE THAT ARE PERMITTED FOR RECONDITIONING.
THEY WON'T BE FOR ANY PATIENT CARE AREAS.
THAT YOU CANNOT, IF IT SAYS YOU CAN USE RECONDITIONING WHEN IT'S PATIENT CARE, YOU CAN'T.
OR IF IT'S SAYING THAT'S CORRECT.
YOU CAN'T USE RECONDITIONED WHEN YOU PATIENT CARE.
NO, YOU CAN'T USE IT IF IT'S RELATED TO PATIENT CARE.
CAN YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF THAT OVER CURRENT, LIKE A BREAKER, CIRCUIT BREAKER THAT FEEDS AN AREA IN WHICH PATIENT CARE OCCURS.
SO YOU CAN USE A RECONDITION BREAKER LIKE IN A RESIDENTIAL UNIT.
YOU CANNOT USE IT IN ANY AREA THAT, THAT IS ANYTHING THAT IS RELATED TO HOSPITAL EQUIPMENT IT'S PLUGGED INTO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WELL, WELL, YOU COULD EVEN TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER.
YOU CAN'T USE IT IN PATIENT CARE AREAS.
SO SAY FOR EXAMPLE, YOU GOT AN AREA IN THE HOSPITAL THAT'S SET UP FOR THE CAFETERIA.
AND THIS WOULD ALLOW US, FOR EXAMPLE, ON SOME OF THE OLD BREAKERS THAT ARE NO LONGER MANUFACTURED OR ANYTHING, BUT THEY DO SELL THE RECONDITIONED BREAKERS.
WE COULD USE THOSE TO REPLACE SOMETHING THAT'S NO GOOD.
UNDER THE, UNDER THE GOVERNING PROVISION, UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THE NEC.
THERE'S SOME OTHER AREAS WHEN WE WENT BACK THAT COVERS WHAT CAN AND CAN'T BE RECONDITIONED IN DIFFERENT ARTICLES.
AND, UH, SO THIS, UM, IS THIS A NEW CODE ITEM OR DO THEY JUST REWRITE IT? LIKE, BEFORE WE ADOPT THIS, COULD RECONDITION CIRCUIT BREAKERS OR, YOU KNOW, WOULDN'T BE PUT IN PATIENT CARE AREAS? I THINK IT JUST CLARIFIED IT, TO BE HONEST.
I DON'T THINK IT WAS SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED IN THE NEC.
IT'S LISTED AS NEW MATERIAL FIVE, 17.6.
SO PRIOR TO IT'S ALL NEW THIS MM-HMM.
BECAUSE RECONDITIONS STARTED TO COME ABOUT MM-HMM.
AND SO NOW YOU GOT TO REALLY BE SPECIFIC ON WHAT CAN AND CANNOT BE RECONDITIONED.
SO I IMAGINE THAT RECONDITION COME ON THE MARKET BECAUSE OF, UH, MATERIAL AVAILABILITY AND COST CONSIDERATION.
IS THERE A, UH, UM, A LOT OF EVIDENCE WHERE PATIENTS ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THIS? OR, OR, UH, WHAT IS, I MEAN, I, I, I SEE EYE ROLLING, BUT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING WE DO MAKES PEOPLE PAY MORE EVERYWHERE THEY GO.
AND, UM, I DON'T THINK I, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST ADDING COST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE BOOK.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.
SO IS THERE, IS THERE A RATIONALE OTHER, OTHER THAN, UM, SAFETY IS THAT PARALYZES, UM, COMMUNITIES EVERYWHERE? I MEAN, IS IT EQUIPMENT FAILURE? I, IS WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO AVOID? RIGHT.
AND IF SOMEBODY WHO USES THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM QUITE EXTENSIVELY, I THINK I WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE THAT EQUIPMENT FEEDING THE AREAS THAT I'M IN.
I WOULD RATHER RELY ON NEW EQUIPMENT.
UM, AND AGAIN, AS, AS RON SAID, IT WOULDN'T BE RESTRICTING THE ENTIRE HOSPITAL FACILITY, FOR EXAMPLE, IT WOULD BE ONLY THOSE AREAS THAT SAY, FED THE CT AREA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR THEY CRITICAL CARE AREAS OF THE HOSPITAL OR PATIENT'S CARE IS INVOLVED.
[00:30:01]
YOU STILL HAVE THE OFFICE AREAS, THE, YOU KNOW, THE CAFETERIA AS RON SUGGESTED, THINGS LIKE THAT.SO YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REPORT IS ON.
I HAVE HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND STUFF, BUT MM-HMM.
BECAUSE LIKE RON SAID, IT'S JUST FOR THE PATIENT CARE AREAS WHERE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ACTUALLY, IF THEY'RE OPERATING ON SOMEBODY AND THEY GOT A, YOU KNOW, REFURBISHED BREAKER AND IT FAILS, THEN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT ONE THING THAT WE WANT TO LOOK AT.
SO IF THIS IS GONNA BE A SAFETY, UH, MATTER, I THINK WE GOTTA TAKE SAFETY OVER HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST FOR A BREAKER.
I JUST, I, I JUST FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREE WITH THAT.
THERE'S, THERE'S SAFETY, THERE'S BASIC SAFETY, AND THEN THERE'S, I MEAN, UNDER THAT RATIONALE, WE COULD, I MEAN, WE, THERE'S NO LIMIT TO WHAT REQUIREMENTS WE COULD MAKE TO MAKE THINGS ABSOLUTELY SAFE.
LIKE MY COLLEAGUE HAS SAID BEFORE, YOU KNOW, UM, HOW MANY, UM, HOW MANY HEART ATTACK VICTIMS WOULD SURVIVE IF THERE WAS A FIRE STATION EVERY OTHER BLOCK IN THE CITY? UM, AND THE ANSWER IS A LOT OF THEM.
BUT THE OTHER ANSWER IS YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO PUT A, A FIRE STATION EVERY OTHER BLOCK.
BUT IF SAFETY IS THE NUMBER ONE CONCERN, WE WOULD, AND COST IS NOT A FACTOR.
SO COST IS A FACTOR EVERYWHERE AND FOR EVERYTHING.
UM, AND SO I, YOU KNOW, I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND I, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR CON I JUST, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, I'M JUST ONE PERSON AND, AND, AND FRANKLY, I DON'T EVEN HAVE A VOTE
SO WE, SO WE ADOPT IT BECAUSE OF SAFETY WHEN, UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO INDICATION THAT WE CARE MORE ABOUT THAN THE HOSPITAL DOES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PATIENT SAFETY.
UM, AND I JUST THINK WE NEED TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT ADOPTING THINGS BECAUSE IT FEELS SAFE WHEN, UM, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT ELSE IS, IS EFFECTIVE.
SO THAT'S ALL I'LL SAY ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT IT'S SAYING.
THE ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THOUGH, IS THE ABILITY ON A TEMPORARY BASIS TO PUT A RECONDITION IN, MAYBE YOU HAVE TO PULL A SPECIAL PERMIT TO DO THAT AND THEN SWITCH IT OUT.
BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE FINDING, AND I'M SURE IT'S THE SAME THING, THE BIGGER BREAKERS IS THE SUPPLY CHAIN IS ALL MESSED UP.
AND IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A BREAKER GOES DOWN AND THE WHOLE WING OF THE HOSPITAL HAS TO GO SHUT DOWN, THAT IS EQUALLY AS UNSAFE AS HAVING A RECONDITIONED BREAKER BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE SERVICE.
SO IF WE, I'D LIKE TO JUST RECOMMEND THAT THERE BE SOME PROCESS, WHETHER THAT BE ADMINISTRATOR, WHERE YOU COULD TEMPORARILY FOR A WEEK OR TWO WHILE YOU'RE WAITING FOR THE NEW ONE TO COME IN, BECAUSE SOME OF THIS STUFF HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, MANUFACTURED AND SOME, YOU KNOW, IT TOOK US TO GET A THERMOSTAT FOR AN AIR CONDITION.
IT TOOK US FOUR MONTHS TO GET THAT IN, YOU KNOW, AND SO YOU HAVE TO USE SOMETHING ELSE.
AND SO I JUST THINK WE HAVE TO ALLOW FOR THOSE SITUATIONS, ESPECIALLY NOW, WHERE PARTS ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SPECIALTY BREAKER AND IT HAS TO BE MADE OR THAT, OR THEY HAVE A RECONDITIONED ONE THERE WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHUT THE WHOLE WING DOWN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET A BREAKER.
I MEAN, CERTAINLY AS A STOP GAP I COULD SEE, BUT NOT AS A PERMANENT INSTALLATION, YOU KNOW? UM, I THINK SOMETHING TO CONSIDER TOO IS THAT THE STATE ADOPTS THIS, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN DO ANYTHING LESS THAN WHAT'S IN THE BOOK.
YOU, ONE THING I THINK THAT MAY BE HELPFUL FOR THE GROUP TO MM-HMM.
AND SO YOU HAVE, UH, PROPOSALS THAT ARE SUBMITTED FOR SOME RECOMMENDATIONS, THOSE GO TO THE CODE MAKING PANELS FOR EVALUATION, THE CODE MAKING PANELS, THEN HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT, REJECT, REJECT WITH COMMENTS.
EXCEPT IN PART, EXCEPT IN PART WITH COMMENTS.
IF THEY DO ANYTHING BUT ACCEPT A PROPOSAL THAT'S GETTING SENT IN, THEN THEY HAVE TO TELL THE SUBMITTER WHY THEY ARE TAKING THE PARTICULAR ACTION.
SO THEN THAT GIVES THE SUBMITTER AN OPPORTUNITY THEN IN THE NEXT PHASE TO GIVE IT ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, AS, AS I LOOK AT FIVE 17, THAT'S COVERED UNDER CMP CODE MAKING PANEL 15 ON CODE MAKING PANEL 15, YOU HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE THAT REPRESENTS HEALTHCARE ON THAT PANEL.
AND THAT'S, UH, DAVID, AND I'M NOT GONNA TRY TO PRONOUNCE DAVID'S LAST NAME, HE WOULDN'T TRY TO PRONOUNCE MINE EITHER, BUT AT ANY RATE, UM, HE WORKS FOR WENTWORTH DOUGLAS HOSPITAL SYSTEMS. SO THEY HAVE REPRESENTATION ON THOSE PANELS, AND THEY, I CAN TELL YOU, HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT ON THOSE PANELS, THEY
[00:35:01]
TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES AT LENGTH.AND SO IF THIS WAS PLACED IN, IT WAS PLACED IN EITHER BECAUSE THERE WAS AN INCIDENT OR THERE'S A CONCERN OF A POTENTIAL INCIDENT THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO MANAGE, UM, I, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE COMMENT ABOUT A, A TEMPORARY STOP GAP MEASURE AND BEING ABLE TO MANAGE, BECAUSE YOU'VE GOTTA BE ABLE TO GET THE HOSPITAL SYSTEM BACK OPERATIONAL IF SOMETHING DOES OCCUR.
AND THEY USUALLY HAVE, UM, SITUATIONS IN PLACE TO WHERE THEY CAN MANAGE THAT IN-HOUSE.
BUT, UM, IF THE CITY'S OKAY WITH THAT, I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY THEY, THAT WE COULDN'T ALLOW FOR A YEAH, I MEAN, I, I SUPPORT THE WAY IT'S DRAFTED.
I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD AN AMENDMENT OR SOMETHING IN THERE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALLOWS THE CODE OFFICIAL TO, UH, APPROVE A TEMPORARY, YOU KNOW, USE WHILE THE PART IS BEING ORDERED.
BECAUSE IN, IF YOU HAVE A CALAMITY, YOU JUST GOTTA GET THE PART AND YOU GOTTA GET THE HOSPITAL UP AND FUNCTIONING.
AND IF YOU JUST SAY NO, YOU KNOW, THINK ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA OR SOMEWHERE WHERE SOMEBODY HAS A BREAKER THAT'S COMING FROM SOME OTHER PLACE, YOU KNOW, AND HAS IT, AND IT GETS THE HOSPITAL UP.
THIS WOULD SAY, NO, YOU CAN'T USE IT, PERIOD.
WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOMETHING IN MY, IN MY OPINION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD BE A CASE BY CASE WHERE AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE A HJ, IT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD WORK HAND IN HAND WITH THE CONTRACTOR ON, YOU KNOW, OR THE IN-HOUSE, MANY OF THE HOSPITALS HAVE MASTER OF RECORD AND HAVE THEIR OWN, UM, MAINTENANCE STAFF.
BUT IF THE CODE SAYS YOU CAN'T DO IT, YOU CAN'T OVERRIDE IT.
AND SO I'M JUST ASKING THAT WE PUT SOMETHING IN THAT PROVISION THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, MM-HMM.
UH, I HAVE A QUESTION ON THIS.
SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A USED BREAKER AND A RECONDITIONED BREAKER? AND AS IT REGARDS, UH, THE ELECTRICIAN INSTALLING IT, THE INSPECTIONS, UM, AND WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE OUT IN THE FIELD, I MEAN, THE RECONDITION IS TESTED.
UM, IT DOES TALK ABOUT HAVING TO HAVE THE ORIGINAL LISTING MARKINGS REMOVED.
UM, I, I THINK RATHER THAN USED, BECAUSE THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS ABOUT REUSING, UTILIZE OR REUSING USED EQUIPMENT, UM, I MEAN, CERTAINLY COULD PUT SOMETHING BACK IN ON THE SAME INSTALLATION, BUT AS FAR AS USING IT SOMEPLACE ELSE, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA WITHOUT IT HAVING BEEN TESTED AND RECONDITIONED IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATION.
AND THE QUE THE QUESTION WAS, UH, YOU KNOW, ENFORCEMENT, HOW DO YOU SEE THIS WHEN YOU GO OUT AND LOOK AT IT? YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE OWNER GONNA DO IF, IF THE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR IS JUST MOVING SOME BREAKERS FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURING TYPE OF A PANEL TO ANOTHER ONE, UM, AND HE CLEANS THEM UP, I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYONE WOULD NECESSARILY EVEN OBSERVE THAT IT WAS NOT BRAND NEW.
AND, AND SO THAT'S KIND OF A QUESTION ON HOW THAT'S
NO, I WOULD, I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
UM, WE CAN'T GOVERN OR TELL ON EVERY SINGLE SITUATION, YOU KNOW, BUT CERTAINLY WE WOULDN'T ALLOW THEM TO.
WE CAN YOU PRETTY MUCH AS AN ELECTRICIAN TELL IF IT'S A DIFFERENT PLACE, IF THEY'RE TAKING A USED ONE FROM HERE AND PUTTING IT IN SOMEPLACE ELSE.
YOU CAN TELL A USED BREAKER LOOKING AT IT UNLESS IT'S ALL USED EQUIPMENT THEY PUT OVER THERE.
AND, UH, PERHAPS EARL, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION.
SO UNDER ARTICLE 100 DEFINITIONS, RECONDITIONED MM-HMM,
THIS DIFFER PROCESS DIFFERS FROM NORMAL SERVICING OF EQUIPMENT THAT REMAINS WITHIN A FACILITY REPLACEMENT OF LIST EQUIPMENT ON A ONE-ON-ONE, ONE-TO-ONE BASIS TEMPORARY SERVICING.
ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? THANK YOU, RON.
SO WE'RE GOING TO EVALUATE ADDING, UM, MM-HMM,
[00:40:01]
FOR RECEPTACLE LOADS SUPPLIED BY BRANCH CIRCUIT SHALL BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH TWO 20.1 10.AND IF YOU RECALL, THEY ADDED A NEW SECTION IN ARTICLE TWO 20, DEALT WITH LOAD CALCULATIONS SPECIFICALLY FOR RECEPTACLE LOADS IN, IN, UH, HOSPITALS AND PATIENT CARE AREAS.
FIVE 18.2 CASINOS AND GAMING FACILITIES WERE NOW INCLUDED IN THE LIST OF ASSEMBLY OCCUPANCY.
EXAMPLES, FIVE 50.32 MOBILE HOME SERVICE EQUIPMENT SHALL BE MOUNTED IN A READILY ACCESSIBLE OUTDOOR LOCATION WITHIN SIGHT OF THE MOBILE HOME IT SERVES.
UM, WHAT IT DID, IT WAS A CHANGE THAT WENT, ORIGINALLY SAID 30 FEET FOR THIS SECTION, AND IT WENT TO 50 FEET TO CORRELATE WITH THE REQUIREMENT OF INSIGHT FROM.
SO INSTEAD OF HAVING A SPECIALIZED DISTANCE, IT JUST WENT TO THE 50 FEET.
THAT'S GENERAL THROUGHOUT THE NEC.
IT ALSO HAS TO BE IDENTIFIED AS THE EMERGENCY DISCONNECT IS REQUIRED.
I WHY THIS FIVE? AND I APOLOGIZE FOR SOME REASON, SOME OF THIS 5, 5 17 GOT SKIPPED AROUND A LITTLE BIT.
FIVE 17.3, THE ESSENTIAL ELECTRICAL SYSTEM SHALL HAVE TWO OR MORE SOURCES OR SETS OF SOURCES.
ONE ONSITE SHALL BE SUPP SIZED TO SUPPORT THE ENTIRE ESS.
AND ANOTHER OFFSITE OR ONSITE SHALL BE SIZED TO SUPPORT THE ENTIRE SS ESS.
ADDITIONAL SOURCES ARE PERMITTED.
SO ONE WOULD BE YOUR NORMAL AND THE OTHER WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOUR GENERATOR BACKUP SYSTEM.
UH, THIS WAS ENTERED TO ALIGN WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH THE NFPA 99 HEALTHCARE CODES.
SO IS A MINOR EMERGENCY CLINIC, A HEALTHCARE FACILITY? IT'S A HEALTHCARE FACILITY.
IT'S NOT CONSIDERED A HOSPITAL.
BUT WOULD IT APPLY TO THEM? WOULD THIS APPLY TO THEM? UM, THERE'S ALL THESE LITTLE MINOR EMERGENCY CLINICS AROUND.
IS THERE A DEFINITION OF WHAT, UH, WHAT HEALTHCARE FACILITIES THIS APPLIES TO? BECAUSE THIS WOULD BE GREAT FOR HOSPITALS AND, AND MAJOR, YOU KNOW, STUFF OR SURGICAL CENTERS.
BUT IF IT APPLIES TO MINOR EMERGENCY CLINICS, I THINK WE NEED TO EXEMPT THEM OUT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT NO, THE MINOR EMERGENCY CLINICS DO PROVIDE EMERGENCY CARE AND THEY ARE CONSIDERED A HOSPITAL.
I MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU FIRST SAID.
URGENT CARE DO NOT HOS THE EMERGENCIES ARE ACTUALLY A HOSPITAL FACILITY.
SOME ACTUALLY HAVE PATIENT BEDS IN THEM.
SO, SO WOULD THIS APPLY TO LIKE THE READY CLINIC OR NO? OR NO, IT WOULD TO LIKE THE BAPTIST EMERGENCY HOSPITALS.
THE LITTLE FREESTANDING AREAS.
THAT, THAT, THAT TO ME IS THE HOSPITAL, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
BUT, BUT IT WOULD NOT LIKE THE DOC IN THE BOX THAT PEOPLE GO TO.
THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO, NO SIR.
UHUH, THE ONLY THING YOU'D HAVE FOR THOSE IS THE STANDARD REQUIRED REDUNDANT GROUNDING, WIRING, THAT KIND OF THING.
SO, AND IT WOULD FALL UNDER OTHER HEALTHCARE FACILITIES IN FIVE 17.
VERY SPECIFIC ON WHAT IS AND ISN'T REQUIRED IN THOSE.
UHHUH FIVE, 17.3 B ONE, FOUR, AND FIVE.
WHERE UTILITY SUPPLY POWER IS USED AS A NORMAL SOURCE, IT SHALL NOT BE USED AS THE ALTERNATE ALTERNATE SOURCE UNLESS PERMITTED ELSEWHERE IN THE NEC ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS WERE ADDED AS AN ALTERNATE SOURCE.
HEALTHCARE MICROG MICROGRID THAT SUPPLIES NON-ESSENTIAL LOADS SHALL ALSO ALSO BE PERMITTED TO SUPPLY THE ESS HEALTHCARE MICROGRID SYSTEMS SHALL BE DESIGNED WITH SUFFICIENT RELIABILITY AND SHALL NOT BE COMPROMISED BY FAILURE OF THE NORMAL SOURCE.
THEY JUST CHANGED THE X-RAY TITLE TO DIAGNOSTIC IMAGING AND TREATMENT EQUIPMENT TO ENCOMPASS OTHER EQUIPMENT THAT'S NOW BEING USED.
ARTICLE FIVE 30 MOTION PICTURE TELEVISION STUDIOS REMOTE LOCATIONS.
THEY RESTRICT PUBLIC ACCESS TO A LIST OF LOCATIONS.
THEY REORGANIZE THE ARTICLE TO MEET CURRENT AND EMERGENCY EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES ADJUSTED WIRING
[00:45:01]
METHODS AND GROUNDING REQUIREMENTS.THEY ADDED EQUIPMENT LISTING REQUIREMENTS WHEN GFCI PROTECTION IS REQUIRED AND WHEN IT CAN'T BE USED.
AND IT ADDRESSES PORTABLE EQUIPMENT IN STUDIOS, REMOTE LOCATIONS AND SUPPORT AREAS.
I THINK THE MOST WE WOULD PROBABLY DEAL WITH IS PROBABLY THE NEWS STATIONS AROUND TOWN.
SO AT 5 47 0.26 IN AGRICULTURAL BUILDINGS, NON-METALLIC, UH, SHEATH CABLES SHALL NOT BE PERMITTED TO BE CONCEALED WITHIN WALLS OR CEILINGS OF BUILDINGS THAT ARE CONTIGUOUS WITH OR PHYSICALLY ADJOINED TO LIVESTOCK CONFINEMENT AREAS.
THAT'S, UH, BECAUSE OF DAMAGE BY RODENTS OR PESTS WOULD NOT BE AS EVIDENT NORMALLY.
UH, NON-METALLIC SHEATH CABLE USED IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN ONE TWO FAMILY OR MULTIFAMILY OF TYPES THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE CONSTRUCTION IS REQUIRED TO BE CONCEALED BY 15 MINUTE FIRE RATED FINISH.
AND IN THIS INSTANCE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE OUT IN THE OPEN ABOUT, THE ONLY THING I CAN THINK OF IS PROBABLY WHERE THE RODEO HAPPENS.
SO
FIVE 50.32 MOBILE HOME SERVICE DISC SIS DISCONNECT.
I THINK WE ALREADY COVERED THIS.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT GOT MOVED AROUND LIKE THAT.
THE ELECTRICAL DATE IN PLAIN DISTANCE FOR RV AND RV PARKS IS DETERMINED BY THE NORMAL HIGH WATER LEVEL.
THIS HAS TO DEAL WITH RV AND RV PARKS ADJACENT TO BODIES OF WATER.
IT'S DETERMINED BY THE NORMAL HIGH WATER LEVEL AND ENCOMPASSES TIDAL MOVEMENT IN AREAS AFFECTED BY CLIMATE, RAIN OR BY HUMAN INTERVENTION OPENING AND CLOSING OF DAMS OR FLOOD GATES.
DISTANCE IS NOT DETERMINED BY NATURAL OR MANMADE DISASTERS.
A CONNECTION OF THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM FOR RVS PRODUCED BY A GENERATOR SHALL PROVIDE AN EFFECTIVE GROUND FAULT RETURN PATH WHEN OPERATIONAL 5 55 0.4 SERVICE EQUIPMENT FOR A FLOATING BUILDING DOCK OR MARINA SHALL BE LOCATED ON LAND NO CLOSER THAN FIVE FEET HORIZONTALLY FROM THE STRUCTURE SERVED.
SERVICE EQUIPMENT SHALL BE ELEVATED MINIMUM OF 12 INCHES ABOVE THE DATE IN PLAIN 5 55 14 A AND B ECHO POTENTIAL PLANE SHALL BE INSTALLED.
WHERE REQUIRED BY THE SECTION BONDING CONDUCTOR SHALL BE A MINIMUM NUMBER EIGHT.
EACH MARINA POWER OUTLET OR ENCLOSURE THAT PROVIDES SHORE POWER TO BOATS SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH A LISTED EMERGENCY SHUTOFF DEVICE OR DISCONNECT THAT IS CLEARLY LABELED EMERGENCY DISCONNECT.
ALL LUMINAIRE AND RETROFIT KITS SHALL BE LISTED FOR THEIR USE IN THEIR INTENDED ENVIRONMENT.
AND THIS INCLUDES UNDERWATER ILLUMINATORS.
600.5 A REQUIRED BRANCH CIRCUITS SHALL BE PERMITTED TO SUPPLY LOADS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE CONTROL OF THE SIGN, SUCH AS ELECTRONIC OR ELECTRICAL MECHANICAL CONTROLLERS.
THEY ADDED A CLASS A-G-F-C-I TO THE VERBIAGE IT DEALS.
UH, IT CLARIFIES THE TYPE OF GFCI PROTECTION FOR ELEVATORS AND ESCALATORS, THAT KIND OF THING.
SIX 20 POINT 12 COMMUNICATION CABLES USED FOR CLASS TWO OR COMMUNICATION CIRCUIT SHALL HAVE A CURRENT LIMIT EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN THE CURRENT REQUIRED TO POWER FOR CLASS TWO OR COMMUNICATION DEVICE MINIMUM SIZE 24.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD REALLY FALL UNDER THE, UH, AGES OF THE ELEVATOR PEOPLE WITH TDLR OR IF WE STILL HAVE JURISDICTION ON THIS.
SO, SO, SO DO WE, WHO DO WE FIND OUT? I, I REACHED, I REACHED OUT TO, UM, THE STATE AND HADN'T GOTTEN AN ANSWER BACK WITH THEM TO FIND OUT IF THIS IS OURS OR BELONGS TO THE MRIS.
SO DO WE NEED TO TABLE THIS UNTIL WE GET AN ANSWER ON THAT? I DUNNO IF IT'S THE WAY I CAN, BUT WOULDN'T THIS BE LIKE NEW CONSTRUCTION? YES, SIR.
NONE OF THIS IS, I SUPPOSE IF THEY PUT IN A NEW ELEVATOR SYSTEM, BUT
[00:50:01]
PROBABLY NO, A NEW ELEVATOR.YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE TO GO BACK AND NO SIR.
YEAH, I DON'T NECESSARILY CARE TOO MUCH ON THAT.
BEFORE WE FLIP THE PAGE, DO ONE QUESTION, SIR.
ALL THIS STUFF, I'M JUST, MAYBE THIS IS JUST CURIOSITY.
ALL THIS RV STUFF, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU EVER NEED TO, I MEAN, WE DON'T PULL PERMITS TO HAVE A NO, IT'S THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTION OUTSIDE VEHICLE.
WHICH ONE?
SO WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? LIKE WHAT DOES THIS, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR, FOR US HAVING, I THINK IT REALLY DOES AFFECT THE MANUFACTURERS, RIGHT? SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR, FOR US? WHAT CAN IT MEAN FOR US? I MEAN, IF WE ADOPTED THIS LINE, DOES THIS SAY THAT THE CITY NOW HAS SOME PURVIEW OVER RVS THERE ON THE ROAD? WE WOULDN'T, THE WOULDN'T INSPECT THOSE OTHER THAN JUST, I MEAN, WE STOP AT THE CONNECTION FOR THE, THE RECEPTACLES OR THE PEDESTALS THAT ARE INSTALLED FOR THESE THINGS IN THESE PARKS.
I THINK WHAT IT APPLIES TO MIKE IS THE NEC HAS ADOPTED THE MANUFACTURER TO BE A HEAD CODE APPROVED NEEDS.
UM, WE ALSO HAVE THE SECTION ABOVE IT ABOUT GENERATORS CONNECTED TO RVS.
I THINK, AGAIN, ALL OF THIS APPLIES TO THE, THE RV MANUFACTURERS.
I WAS, I'VE ADDED THOSE JUST AS SECTIONS AND YOU'RE CORRECT.
IT'S, WE PROBABLY DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY COVER OVER THIS AT ALL.
SO WE, WE WOULD'VE RESPONSIBILITY FOR COVERING THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS UP TO THIS POINT TO, TO WHERE THE, THE RECREATIONAL VEHICLE WOULD, UH, CONNECT THEIR POWER CORD.
BUT THE REQUIREMENTS WITHIN THE RV IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE THAT CORRECT.
LESS FACILITY WERE TO START BUILDING RVS
UM, BUT THIS GIVES THEM REQUIREMENTS.
ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE RV INDUSTRY HAS STRUGGLED WITH IS ANY KIND OF OVERSIGHT THEY'VE HAD VERY, VERY LITTLE.
AND SO THE NEC HAS, HAS STARTED TO, UH, ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
SO THE MANUFACTURERS HAVE GUIDELINES FOR THEM TO FOLLOW.
AND SO BASICALLY, WHERE'S THE D MARK BETWEEN US? MM-HMM.
AND IT WOULD BE THE CONNECTION POINT, THE RECEPTACLE, RIGHT? WHERE THEY SPLIT IN.
I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T ENTER AN RV TO SEE IF THIS IS MEETS THE REQUIREMENT OR NOT.
WE STOP RIGHT THERE AT THAT CONNECTION.
RIGHT? NO, I, LISTEN, I, I GET IT.
UM, BUT THIS BEING IN HERE ALLOWS A TICKED OFF ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR TO GET INVOLVED IN THE SOMEBODY IN THE RV AND THEIR GENERATOR.
I MEAN, IT DOES, IT GIVES THE AUTHORITY TO DO THAT.
'CAUSE WE'VE ADOPTED THIS CODE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE CONNECTION BETWEEN A GENERATOR AND AN RV.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE I LIKE THAT.
WELL, SOMEBODY THAT'S BEEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A UNHAPPY INSPECTOR IN THE PAST WHO JUST DOES STUFF, I, WE WANNA SAY IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, BUT IT DOES.
I'M NOT WELL, I KNOW IT DOES ENTIRE DEPARTMENT, BUT THERE'S CERTAINLY A, A WAY FOR THAT TO BE ADDRESSED TOO.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S LIKE MOBILE HOMES.
WHEN THE GUYS HAVE GONE OUT TO GO IN, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GO IN THE MOBILE HOME OTHER THAN TO CHECK WHERE THE CONNECTION'S MADE.
THE REST OF IT IS NONE OF OURS TO LOOK AT.
SO I THINK SHE JUST MEANT, UH, IF YOU COME ACROSS THAT, JUST CALL HER.
SO SIX 20.2, A SEPARATE ELEVATOR CAR LIGHT CIRCUIT IS PERMITTED TO FEED EMERGENCY RESPONDER, EMERGENCY RESPONDER RADIO COVERAGE, CAR VENTILATION, PURIFICATION SYSTEMS, CAR EMERGENCY SIG SIGNALING COMMUNICATIONS DEVICE, INCLUDING THEIR ASSOCIATED CHARGING CIRCUITS.
6 25 0.6 ELECTRIC VEHICLE POWER TRANSFER SYSTEM EQUIPMENT FOR THE PURPOSES OF CHARGING POWER EXPORT OR BIDIRECTIONAL FLOW SHALL BE LISTED.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IS THAT LIKE PUTTING A TRUCK UP TO THE HOUSE? YES, SIR.
YOU, IT'S NOT LIKE THE FORD COMMERCIAL WHERE YOU JUST GO PLUG THE WHOLE HOUSE INTO, INTO THE TRUCK.
[00:55:01]
NOA NON LOCKING TWO POLE, THREE WIRE, THREE POLE, FOUR WIRE GROUNDING TYPE RECEPTACLE OUTLET OR RATED A HUNDRED AND TWENTY TWO FIFTY VOLTS, SINGLE PHASE 30, 50 OR 60 AMPS AS PERMITTED.
THEY DID ADD THE 60 AMPS IN THIS ADDITION OF THE CODE.
UH, SOME EV EV MANUFACTURERS HAVE THAT.
OH, NOW FOR THE LEVEL TWO CHARGING 6 25 0.49, ELECTRICAL VEHICLE POWER EXPORT AND BIDIRECTIONAL ELECTRIC VEHICLE SUPPLY EQUIPMENT THAT INCORPORATES A POWER EXPORT FUNCTION SHALL BE PERMITTED TO BE PART OF AN INTERCONNECTED POWER SYSTEM OPERATING IN ISLAND MODE.
AND THIS WAS ONE I HAD MADE A NOTE TO ASK IF CPS HAD ANY COMMENTS ON THIS.
SO THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO STILL GO THROUGH THE, THE PORTAL AND THE, THE, UH, COMMISSIONING PROCESS.
JUST LIKE YOU MENTIONED BEFORE.
IT'S THE ACTUAL EQUIPMENT THAT HAS THAT BI-DIRECTIONAL CAPABILITY.
ALL A HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE, FIFTEEN AND 20 AMP RECEPTACLES FOR ELECTRIC HAND TOOLS.
PORTABLE LIGHTING EQUIPMENT SUPPLIED BY SINGLE PHASE BRANCH CIRCUITS.
150 VOLTS TO GROUND OR LESS INSTALLED IN WORK AREAS WHERE WELDERS ARE OPERATED SHALL HAVE GFCI PROTECTION FOR PERSONNEL.
UM, THIS MOSTLY DEALS, UH, WITH THE SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE THE TRADE SCHOOLS, SECONDARY SCHOOLS, COMMUNITY COLLEGES.
I DO REMEMBER HAVING WELDING CLASS AT APPRENTICESHIP SCHOOL.
SO I THINK THAT'S KINDA WHAT THIS MIGHT BE TALKED ABOUT.
THIS GOES BACK AND MIRRORS, UH, ARTICLE ONE 10 IN THE WORKING CLEARANCE.
UM, IN MODULAR DATA CENTERS WHERE THERE'S EQUIPMENT OR OVER SIX FEET IN WIDTH OR DEPTH DOORS SHALL OPEN TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THEIR DESIGNED EGRESS OPENING.
AND APPARENTLY SOME OF THE MODULAR DATA FACILITIES ACTUALLY HAVE A SLIDING DOOR.
SO THEY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOOR OPENS TO THE FULL EXTENT, IT ALLOWS THE PROPER EXITING 'CAUSE THERE'S NO WAY TO PUT PANIC HARDWARE ON THAT EQUIPMENT.
SIX 80.5 B AND C IN ADDITION TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF TWO 10.8 GFCI AND S-P-G-F-C-I.
NOW SPECIAL PURPOSE GFCI PROTECTION SHALL BE REQUIRED FOR RECEPTACLES AND OUTLETS ON BRANCH CIRCUITS RATED 150 VOLTS TO GROUND 60 AMPS OR LESS, OR SINGLE PHASE OR THREE PHASE.
AND THEN C BRANCH CIRCUITS OPERATING AT VOLTAGES ABOVE 150 VOLTS TO GROUND.
NOT EXCEEDING 40 VOLTS FACE TO FACE, SINGLE OR THREE PHASE PROTECTION SHALL BE SPECIAL PURPOSE GFCI NOT TO EXCEED 20 MILLIAMPS GROUND FAULT TRIP.
THAT WOULD REALLY ADDRESS MORE OF OUR LARGE OAK COMMERCIAL SWIMMING POOLS WITH THE HOTELS AND HIGH RISES.
SIX 80 POINT 10 B ELECTRICALLY POWERED SWIMMING POOL HEAT PUMPS AND CHILLERS USING THE CIRCULATING WATER SYSTEM AND PROVIDING HEATING COOLING, OR BOTH SHALL BE LISTED AND RATED FOR THEIR INTENDED USE.
THE AMPACITY OF THE BRANCH CIRCUIT CONDUCTORS AND THE RATING OR SETTING OF THE OVER CURRENT DEVICE SHALL BE SIZED TO COMPLY WITH THE NAMEPLATE SIX 80 POINT 12 A AND B.
IT ADDED UNLESS EQUIPMENT IN POOL EQUIPMENT, ROOMS, OR PITS IS RATED OR IDENTIFIED FOR SUBMERSION.
AND THEN B, AT LEAST ONE GFCI PROTECTED 125 VOLT, 15 OR 20 RECEPTACLE SUPPLIED BY A GENERAL PURPOSE BRANCH CIRCUIT SHALL BE INSTALLED IN THE EQUIPMENT ROOM SIX 80 POINT 14 B.
OTHER EQUIPMENT SHALL BE SUITABLE FOR USE AND CORROSIVE ENVIRONMENTS OR BE INSTALLED IN CORROSION RESISTANT ENCLOSURES.
EQUIPMENT LISTED FOR POOL OR SPA USE SHALL BE CONSIDERED SUITABLE FOR USE.
SIX 80 POINT 20 1D WHERE A POOL PUMP MOTOR IN SIX 80 POINT 21 C IS REPLACED OR REPAIRED GROUND
[01:00:01]
FAULT PROTECTION COMPLYING WITH SIX 80.5 B OR C SHALL BE PROVIDED.CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YES SIR.
I THINK WE NEED TO INVESTIGATE THIS.
'CAUSE I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM IS, IS OUR PUMPS USED TO GO INTO A GROUND FAULT PROTECTOR DEAL AND WE TOOK THEM OUT BECAUSE EVERY TIME THE PUMP TRIGGERED MM-HMM.
AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT FROM THE POOL MANUFACTURER PEOPLE THAT REAL LIFE SITUATIONS WHERE THAT IS NOT GONNA OCCUR.
IN OTHER WORDS, EVERY OTHER PLUG, WILL WE PLUG SOMETHING ELSE INTO IN THAT POOL AREA IS GROUND FAULT PROTECTED EXCEPT THE PUMP BECAUSE THAT'S DIRECT, YOU KNOW, USUALLY DIRECT WIRED INTO SOMETHING AND NONE OF THOSE CIRCUITS ARE USUALLY HAVE BEEN GROUND FAULT PROTECTED.
BECAUSE NOW A LOT OF TIMES THE PUMP RATHER THAN RUN CONTINUOUSLY WILL BE, YOU KNOW, PUT ON A TIMER TO SAVE ELECTRICITY AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
I CAN TELL YOU, UM, HAVING HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT ON PANEL 17, THAT GFCI PROTECTION FOR POOLS IS ONE OF THESE THINGS THAT IS, AS YOU'VE WITNESSED, I'M SURE HAS EVOLVED OVER TIME.
AND THE 20 MILLIAMP, UH, THRESHOLD THAT THEY'VE ESTABLISHED, THEY BELIEVE ADDRESSES THESE TYPES OF NUISANCE STRIPPINGS THAT WE SAW IN EQUIPMENT THAT, UH, WHERE WE DID HAVE PROBLEMS IN THE PAST.
NOW IS THAT TRULY ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM? TIME WILL TELL.
BUT, UM, I THINK WE NEED TO BE PREPARED TO ADDRESS THIS, THIS QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S GONNA COME UP.
I MEAN I, I'M, I'M NOT AGAINST IT, BUT I JUST FROM AN OPERATIONAL POINT OF VIEW, IT'S LIKE EVERY SINGLE TIME, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE PLUG OR IT CORRODED BECAUSE OF THE CHLORINE AND WE PLUGGED IT IN MM-HMM.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY CORRECTED IN HOW THEY'RE MANUFACTURING RULE PUMPS WHERE IT TURNS ON MORE SLOWLY OR IT DOESN'T DRAW THE SAME AMPERAGE THAT WOULD TRIP, YOU KNOW, THE CIRCUIT.
BUT I JUST THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE A MAJOR PAIN IF EVERY TIME, YOU KNOW, SOME THAT PUMP KICKS ON OR SOMETHING HAPPENS WHERE IT GETS SOMETHING IN IT AND IT TRIGGERS A LITTLE EXTRA CURRENT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE MOTOR IS STRESSED BECAUSE SOMETHING WENT THROUGH THE POOL PUMP THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUT THROUGH THE POOL PUMP IT TRIPS IT AND SHUTS IT OFF.
SO, YOU KNOW, SO KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU'VE GOT TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF G-F-I-G-F-C-I PROTECTION.
AND SO IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S CONNECTED TO A 20 MILLIAMP DESIGN CIRCUIT AND YOU REMOVE THAT AND CONNECT IT TO SOMETHING THAT THE PERSONNEL PROTECT, IT'S GOING TO TRIP THE GFCI.
SO THEN MAYBE THAT, THAT, THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION.
FEEL LIKE THE THRESHOLD IS BIT DIFFERENT.
SIX 80 POINT 22, A FOUR AND SIX 80 POINT 22 B FOUR.
CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? YES, SIR.
RON, WHEN YOU HAVE A CIRCUIT THAT IS NON GROUND FAULT PROTECTED, HOW HARD IS IT TO CHANGE IT OUT TO A PROTECTED IN AN EXISTING ENVIRONMENT? BECAUSE THIS IS BASICALLY A RETROFIT REQUIREMENT.
SO THE SERVICE TO THAT EQUIPMENT, WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE CHANGED ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PANEL? SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE'RE, IF WE HAVE, IF WE'RE CHANGING OUT JUST A SINGLE PUMP, THEN IT WOULD BE THE, THE FEEDER BREAKER FOR THAT PUMP.
SO THE WIRING THAT GOES TO IT SINCE, LIKE IN A RESIDENTIAL APPLICATION, MOST LIKELY IT'S ROM X CABLE.
THE STANDARD TWO WITH ONE GROUND WOULD BE ENOUGH TO INSTALL THE BREAKER SOMEWHERE TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.
AS LONG AS THE WIRING SYSTEM HAS, UH, AN EQUIPMENT RHYMING CONDUCTOR, THEN YOU SHOULD, THEN YOU'LL BE FINE.
IF IT DOESN'T HAVE AN EQUIPMENT RHYMING CONDUCTOR, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO ADD IT.
[01:05:01]
IF IT DOESN'T HAVE IT, IT NEEDS TO HAVE IT.I THINK THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT, IF YOU CAN AFFORD A POOL, I THINK YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADD THE EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT ONE? OKAY.
SIX 80 POINT 22 A 4 6, 80 POINT 22 B FOUR.
ALL RECEPTACLES RATED 125 VOLTS THROUGH TWO 50 VOLTS, 60 AMPS OR LESS THAT WERE LOCATED WITHIN 20 FEET.
FROM THE INSIDE WALLS OF THE POOL SHALL HAVE GFCI PROTECTION, COMPLYING WITH SIX 80.5 B OR SPECIAL PURPOSE GFCI PROTECTION, COMPLYING WITH SIX 80.5 C AS APPLICABLE AND APPLYING TO LUMINAIRE LIGHTING OUTLETS AND CEILING SUSPENDED FANS INSTALLED IN THE AREA, EXTENDING BETWEEN FIVE FEET AND 10 FEET HORIZONTALLY FROM THE INSIDE WALLS OF THE POOL.
I MEAN, IS, IS THIS SOMETHING NEW? 'CAUSE I MEAN MY UNDERSTANDING OF THAT IS EVERY ELECTRICAL OUTLET WITHIN THE POOL YARD MM-HMM.
UH, UP TO, IT WAS UP TO 20 FEET, I BELIEVE IN SIX 80.
UH, IT DID EXPAND TO INCLUDE THE SPECIAL PURPOSE GFCI NOW TOO FOR THE HIGHER VOLTAGES, HIGHER INCAPACITIES, WHERE CAN YOU GO? THAT SECTION, IT IS BASICALLY UPDATING THAT SECTION TO ADD THAT S-P-G-F-C-I AND SOME CLARIFICATION IN IT.
SIX 80 POINT 23 B TWO METAL CONDUIT, UH, RUN TO WET NICHE LUMIN AIR FORMING SHELLS SHALL BE LISTED AND SHALL BE RED BRASS OR STAINLESS STEEL.
I JUST KIND OF REVISED THE TEXT TO CLARIFY IT.
THE EQU POTENTIAL BONDING REQUIRED BY SIX 80.26 B AND C TO REDUCE VOLTAGE GRADIENTS IN THE POOL AREA SHALL BE INSTALLED FOR POOLS WITH OR WITHOUT ASSOCIATED ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT RELATED TO THE POOL.
SIX 80.32, GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER AND SPECIAL PURPOSE, GROUND FAULT CIRCUIT INTERRUPTER PROTECTION.
IT JUST REVISED THE TITLE TO INCLUDE THE S-P-G-F-C-I, UM, AND DID THE SAME THING ALSO FOR SIX 80 POINT 44, UH, FOR SPA AND HOT TUB INSTALLATIONS.
SIX 80 POINT 54 C EQUAL POTENTIAL BONDING OF SPLASH PADS.
FOR THE PURPOSE OF THE EQU POTENTIAL BONDING, THE SHALL OF A SPLASH PAD SHALL COMPRISE THE AREA TRAVERSED BY PEDESTRIANS, BOUNDED BY THE EXTENT OF THE FOOTING OF THE SPLASH PAD AND RISING TO ITS EXPOSED SURFACE AND ITS COLLECTION BASIN AREA.
THE BOUNDARY OF THIS AREA SHALL BE CONSIDERED TO BE THE INSIDE WALLS FOR THE PURPOSE OF PERIMETER BONDING SIX 90.
THEY JUST ADDED PV SOURCE CIRCUIT, UM, INSTEAD OF PV OUTPUTS, OUTPUT CIRCUIT SIX 90.9 D OVER CURRENT PROTECTION FOR POWER TRANSFORMERS SHALL BE INSTALLED IN ACCORDANCE WITH 7 0 5 0.3 F SIX, 90 POINT 12 EXCEPTION.
NUMBER TWO, UH, IN INFORMATIONAL NOTE, THIS WAS ONE OF MY OTHER SENIORS THAT DEALS WITH SOLARS A LOT HAD ENTERED SOME OF THIS INFORMATION.
SO, UH, PV CIRCUITS ON NON ENCLOSED DETACHED STRUCTURES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO PARKING SHADE STRUCTURES, CARPORTS SOLAR T TRELLIS AND SIMILAR STRUCTURES SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH SIX 90 POINT 12 AND SAYS TO REVISE THE LANGUAGE TO ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR RAPID SHUTDOWN REQUIREMENTS, UH, WHERE FIREFIGHTERS AREN'T REQUIRED TO GET ON THE ROOF, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE OUT HERE IN OUR PARKING LOT.
AND SO, SIX 90 POINT 12 B2 UH, ADDED TWO OPTIONS.
THEY WERE REVISED BY CODE MAKING PANEL FOUR, UH, FOR RAPID SHUTDOWN COMPLIANCE WITHIN THE ARRAY BOUNDARY.
THE PREVIOUS OPTION THREE WAS ELIMINATED,
[01:10:01]
UH, CHAPTER TEN SIX NINETY THIRTY ONE B ONE CONDUCTORS OF DIFFERENT SYSTEMS, THE EXCEPTION WHERE ALL CONDUCTORS AND CABLES HAVE AN INSULATION RATING EQUAL TO AT LEAST THE MAXIMUM CIRCUIT VOLTAGE APPLIED TO ANY CONDUCTOR WITHIN THE SAME WIRING METHOD.THE FOLLOWING SHALL BE PERMITTED.
AND I HAVE IT IN HERE ABOUT NOT ADOPTING EXCEPTIONS ONE AND THREE.
AND THEN HAVE SECTION ONE AND THREE UHHUH.
DO WE HAVE IT IN THERE? YEAH, IF I COULD.
IF YOU CAN SEE ON THIS SCREEN OVER HERE, UH, ITEM ONE WAS A MULTI CONDUCTOR JACKET.
CABLES FOR REMOTE CONTROL SIGNALING OR POWER LIMITED CIRCUIT SHALL BE PERMITTED WITHIN THE SAME WIRING ENCLOSURE, CABLE OR RACEWAY AS A PV SYSTEM, DC CIRCUITS.
UM, AND THEN ITEM THREE WAS PV SYSTEM DC CIRCUITS UTILIZING MULTI CONDUCTOR JACKETED CABLE OR METAL CLAD CABLE ASSEMBLIES ARE LISTED.
WIRE HARNESSES IDENTIFIED FOR THE APPLICATION SHALL BE PERMITTED TO OCCUPY THE SAME WIRING METHOD AS INVERTER OUTPUT CIRCUITS AND NON PV SYSTEMS. I THINK ONE OF THE REASONINGS THAT THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS WAS HAVING CONDUCTORS OF DIFFERENT SYSTEMS IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE FOR COLLECTION OF THE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS OR ELECTRICIANS GETTING IN THERE UNLESS IT'S CLEARLY IDENTIFIED OR SEPARATED.
WELL, I THINK THAT THE TAKEN OUT EXCEPTIONS MM-HMM.
SO I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD REMOVE EXCEPTIONS THAT MM-HMM.
SO I DON'T KNOW QUITE ON THIS APPLICATION IF IT, IF IT'S GONNA HAVE SOME ISSUES WITH THAT, IF IT'S, IF, IF IT'S NOT AN EXCEPTION.
THE ONLY THING I COULD ADD TO THAT IS THAT USUALLY WE DON'T SEE ANY RELAY OR COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT FROM THE POINT AIR CONNECTION OVER TO THE AGGREGATE PANEL.
USUALLY, LIKE IN THE J BOX WHERE A LINE SIDE TAP MAY TAKE PLACE, OR IN THE SERVICE PANEL WHERE A LOAD SIDE CONNECTION MAY TAKE PLACE, THEY MAY HAVE SOME SMALL CTS UTILIZED FOR RELAY OR CONTROL EQUIPMENT.
THEY ROUTE FROM THERE OVER TO THAT EQUIPMENT SPECIFICALLY, BUT THEY'RE NOT RUNNING IT THROUGH EACH CONDUIT OVER TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE PV METER, THE PVAC DISCONNECT THE AGGREGATE PANEL OVER TO THOSE POINTS.
AND SO WE HAVE THAT, BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE THAT CONDUCTOR RUN THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRETY OF THE SYSTEM THOUGH.
SO IS THERE ANY REASON NOT TO LEAVE THOSE EXCEPTIONS IN THAT WERE WRITTEN INTO THE CODE? I THINK, UH, WHAT IT WAS IS, AND I WISHED HE'D BEEN ABLE TO ATTEND, HE HAD TOO MANY INSPECTIONS ON HIS LIST, AND IT WAS, UH, MR. BENNETT, SO SENIOR INSPECTOR THAT DEALS MOSTLY WAS SOLAR INSPECTIONS.
UM, AND HIS SUGGESTION WAS MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE BEING IN THE SAME RACEWAYS BEING IN THE SAME JUNCTION BOXES, UNLESS THEY'RE CLEARLY MARKED, YOU KNOW, KNOW, I MEAN, IT HAS TO HAVE THE SAME INSULIN RATE INSULATION RATING OF THE MAXIMUM VOLTAGE IN THE RACEWAY OR IN THE IN CONTAINER OR THE JUNCTION BOX.
SO ARE YOU, ARE YOU TRYING TO LIMIT IT SPECIFICALLY TO JUNCTION BOXES AND NOT BOXES ANY ENCLOSURE? I THINK THAT'S THE WAY IT'S WORDED.
MAY MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER CONVERSATION ON THAT, A LITTLE IN DEPTH ON SOME OF THAT.
'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, SOME OF THE EQUIPMENT EQUIPMENT IS PRETTY SOPHISTICATED THAT NOW CAN, LIKE, WHEN YOU'RE GOING BACK TO THESE A TS THAT AUTOMATICALLY SWITCHES OVER FROM BATTERY, UM, AND EMERGENCY SITUATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO I'M NOT QUITE SURE THE, THE, THE GAUGE OF INSULATION THAT WOULD BE THERE.
[01:15:01]
SAY YES, I TAKE, SO UNTIL WE CAN TALK WITH CPSA LITTLE BIT MORE.SO WE'VE BEEN GOING FOR A LITTLE OVER AN HOUR ABOUT IF WE TAKE A 10 MINUTE BIOLOGY BREAK.
WE'LL RETURN AT, LET'S MAKE IT 10 25.
IF WE COULD, UH, BRING, GET READY BACK THERE SO WE CAN RECONVENE.
SO WE JUST FINISHED WITH 6 90 31 B ONE.
WE TABLED THAT ONE FOR ADDITIONAL CPS REVIEW, WHICH BRINGS US TO 703.
SWITCHING MEANS INCLUDING INTERLOCKS.
AND THIS REFERS TO EMERGENCY SYSTEMS. UH, SWITCHING MEANS INCLUDING INTERLOCKS SHALL BE LISTED AND PROVIDED WITH MECHANICAL, MECHANICAL ELECTRICAL INTERLOCKING.
AND THAT'S TO PREVENT INADVERTENT INADVERTENT INTERCONNECTION OF POWER SOURCES.
A PERMANENT CONNECTION POINT FOR THE TEMPORARY GENERATOR SHALL BE LOCATED OUTDOORS AND SHALL NOT HAVE CABLES FROM THE CONNECTION POINT TO THE TEMPORARY GENERATOR RUNNING THROUGH DOORS, WINDOWS, OR SIMILAR OPENINGS.
AND A PERMANENT LABEL SHALL BE FIELD APPLIED AT THE PERMANENT CONNECTION POINT TO IDENTIFY A SYSTEM VOLTAGE, MAXIMUM AMPS AND SHORT CIRCUIT CURRENT RATING OF THE LOAD SIDE OF THE EQUIPMENT SUPPLIED AND THE UNGROUNDED CONDUCTOR IDENTIFICATION IN ACCORDANCE WITH TWO 10.5.
AND THIS HAS TO DO WITH THE TEMPORARY GENERATOR FOR MAINTENANCE REPAIR IN THE ALTERNATE POWER SOURCE.
DID THIS APPLY TO SOMEBODY WHO IS, LIKE, POWER GOES OUT AND THEY HAVE A TEMPORARY GENERATOR? NO, THIS IS MOSTLY FOR THEM TO PULL MAINTENANCE ON THEIR SYSTEM OR IF, IF SOMETHING WERE TO GO WRONG, THEY CAN PULL IN THIS TEMPORARY GENERATOR CONNECTS TO A, A MULE, I GUESS IS WHAT WE USED TO CALL 'EM FROM, RIGHT? YEAH.
THEY, THEY STARTED IN A INSTALL A LOT OF THESE, UH, MANUAL TAP BOXES.
AND THEY'LL USE THE QUICK CONNECTS AND, BUT THEY ALL HAVE TO BE APPROPRIATELY RATED MM-HMM.
OR CURRENT PROTECTION SELECTIVE COORDINATION.
I HAVE A NOTE IN HERE ABOUT PARALLEL OPERATION.
UM, I KNOW THAT THE CPS ENERGY STANDARDS PREVENT OR PER DON'T, DO NOT PERMIT PARALLEL OPERATION OF EMERGENCY SYSTEMS OR ALTERNATIVE SYSTEMS WITH THE NORMAL POWER, WITH THEIR POWER.
BUT I WANTED THEM TO WEIGH IN ON THIS.
SO SINCE THIS IS EMERGENCY SYSTEM, DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THIS ONE OR, SO WE DO HAVE PROVISIONS WHERE THEY CAN MOMENTARILY PARALLEL MM-HMM.
AND THEN WE DO HAVE PROVISIONS, UM, FOR, FOR SYSTEMS TO, TO RUN AN PARALLEL, BUT THAT GOES, THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE, YOU KNOW, THE INTERCONNECT STUDIES.
CONTRACTUAL PROVISIONS, UM, TO OPERATE BACK ONTO THE GRID.
[01:20:03]
YEAH, I THINK, I THINK SPECIFICALLY, DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE A SPECIFIC POINT ON THIS ITEM? UH, NO, JUST THAT IT WAS, UH, NEWLY ADDED.UH, THE THING IS, IS THAT THIS DOES REFER TO EMERGENCY SYSTEM IS CERTAINLY ONE WE WOULD PROBABLY WANNA KEEP, BUT AS YOU SAID, IF WE HAVE, IF CPS HAS TO DO A OR IN YOUR, THE SUBMISSION OF DOCUMENTS TO Y'ALL THAT'S MADE, IT'S CERTAINLY LOOKED AT WHEN Y'ALL DO YOUR REVIEW, CORRECT? YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT.
SO IS IT A MONEY ISSUE OR IS IT A, DOESN'T WORK TOGETHER ISSUE? SO, SO IT'S BOTH.
IT'S, IT'S, AND I, AND I'M, I'M NOT SAYING MONEY, BUT IT'S, IT'S THE FACT THAT WE'RE THE NOE.
SO AS FAR AS BUYING AND SELLING POWER IN, IN THE SERVICE TERRITORY, UM, THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS TO BE VETTED AND COMPLIED.
UM, BUT PRIMARILY, I THINK FROM THIS STANDPOINT, WITH PARALLEL OPERATION, YOU'RE REALLY WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT, THAT ALL THE CHECKS ARE DONE IN THE EVENT THAT A CIRCUIT IS DOWN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENS.
THAT ONE, YOU'RE, WE DON'T HAVE FOLKS WORKING OUT THERE ON THE LINES THAT THIS COULD POTENTIALLY BACKFEED AND, AND ENDANGER.
AND THEN TWO, UM, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT COULD BE A POTENTIAL IS THE CUSTOMER'S EQUIPMENT GETS DAMAGED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OUR SYSTEM WOULD OVERWHELM IF IT'S NOT SYNCED PROPERLY.
UH, AND THERE'S MOMENTARY ALLOWANCE FOR, FOR SINKING TO COME BACK, UM, FROM A, LET'S JUST SAY AN OUTAGE BACK TO UTILITY POWER, RIGHT? SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANOTHER BLIP.
YOU'D HAVE THE BLIP OF AN UNEXPECTED OUTAGE, BUT THEN GOING BACK, UM, THOSE PROVISIONS HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT.
AND THERE'S, IT'S A VERY SMALL SHORT WINDOW, RIGHT? SO MANY MILLISECONDS.
AND SO IT'S ARTICLE 700 DEALS WITH EMERGENCY SYSTEMS. THAT'S WHY WE WOULD REALLY WANT TO PROBABLY LEAVE THIS AS IS.
I GUESS THAT WOULD BE MY QUESTION IS WHAT'S THE EMERGENCY SITUATION THAT WOULD REQUIRE PARALLELING? WELL, JUST THE, UH, ABILITY, THE TIME LAG, UH, NOT TO HAVE THAT TIME LAG, CORRECT.
WELL, ON THE, I WOULD SAY ON THE EMERGENCY SIDE, SIMILAR TO THE EXAMPLE I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IS WHERE YOU'VE GOT A FACILITY THAT HAD A UTILITY OUTAGE, THEY WENT ON TO GENERATOR, NOW THEY WANT TO WALK OFF A GENERATOR, BACK ONTO UTILITY.
AND, YOU KNOW, AND IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY COORDINATE CLOSELY WITH.
CPS SAY, OKAY, WE'RE READY TO COME BACK.
IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THEY JUST TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES TO DO.
NO, THAT IS ALLOWED AND PERMITTED, BUT WE JUST HAVE TO OKAY.
SO ARE WE GONNA LEAVE IT IN? YES, SIR.
700.5 D AND EXCEPTIONS EMERGENCY LOADS ARE SUPPLIED BY SINGLE FEEDER.
THE EMERGENCY POWER SYSTEM SHALL INCLUDE REDUNDANT TRANSFER EQUIPMENT OR BYPASS ISOLATION SWITCH FOR MAINTENANCE REQUIRED BY 700.3 C.
IF THE REDUNDANT TRANSFER SWITCH IS MANUAL, IT SHALL BE ACTIVELY SUPERVISED BY QUALIFIED PERSON WHEN THAT A TS IS DISABLED.
EXCEPTIONS INCLUDE FOUR ALTERNATIVES THAT WOULD ALLOW NO ADDITIONAL REDUNDANT TRANSFER SWITCH OR BYPASS.
700 POINT 11 CLASS TWO CIRCUITS SHALL BE IDENTIFIED, UH, BOXES AND ENCLOSURES EXPOSED CABLE TRAYS AND RACEWAYS SHALL BE PERMANENTLY MARKED AT INTERVALS NOT EXCEEDING 25 FEET AND WITHIN THREE FEET OF EACH CONNECTOR.
IF CLASS TWO CIRCUITS ARE INSTALLED ALONGSIDE NON-EMERGENCY CIRCUITS, EMERGENCY CIRCUITS SHALL BE BUNDLED SEPARATELY, AND THE WIRING PROTECTION SHALL COMPLY WITH 300.4 UNLESS ONE OF THE EXCEPTIONS LISTED APPLIES.
AND THIS ADDRESSES NEW TECHNOLOGIES SUCH AS POWER OVER ETHERNET OR LOW POWER CONSUMPTION LIGHTING CLASS TWO CIRCUITS USED WHEN THEY'RE USED FOR EMERGENCY LIGHTING, 700 POINT 12 C AND 7 0 1 12 C UH, 7 0 1 DEALS WITH LEGALLY REQUIRED STANDBY SYSTEMS. UH, SUPPLY DURATION OF EMERGENCY POWER SYSTEMS SHALL NOT BE LESS THAN TWO HOURS UNLESS USED FOR EMERGENCY ILLUMINATION.
AND THIS ALIGNS WITH NFPA 99 1 10 AND 11 1 11 FOR POWER, EMERGENCY POWER, STANDBY POWER AND ENERGY STORAGE.
[01:25:03]
I BELIEVE IT WENT UP FROM 90 MINUTES TO TWO HOURS.700 POINT 12 E ONE AND TWO JUST DEALS WITH A STORED ENERGY POWER SUPPLY SYSTEM, UM, SUPPLYING POWER FOR EMERGENCY SYSTEMS AND 7 0 1 4D FOR LEGALLY REQUIRED TALKS ABOUT PARALLEL OPERATION OF LEGALLY REQUIRED STANDBY SYSTEMS. IT SHALL COMPLY WITH PART ONE AND TWO OF ARTICLE 7 0 5, WHERE THE SOURCE CAPACITY REQUIRED TO SUPPLY THE LEGALLY REQUIRED LOAD IS MAINTAINED AT ALL TIMES.
THE ALTERNATE SOURCE SHALL BE PERMITTED TO OPERATE IN PARALLEL WHERE THE NECESSARILY EQUIPMENT TO MAINTAIN A SYNCHRONOUS CONDITION IS PROVIDED.
AND SHALL BE EITHER THE FOLLOWING SUPPLIED BY SINGLE OR MULTIPLE FEEDERS WITHOUT AN OVER CURRENT DEVICE AT THE SOURCE OR SUPPLIED BY A SINGLE OR MULTIPLE FEEDERS WITH OVER CURRENT DEVICE, PROVIDED THAT PROTECTION IS COMMON TO A LEGALLY REQUIRED STANDBY SOURCE AND OTHER LOADS THEY'RE SELECTIVELY COORDINATED DOWNSTREAM WITH, UH, OTHER RECURRENT DEVICES.
7 0 5 POINT 30 F TWO TRANSFORMER SECONDARY CONDUCTOR SHALL BE PROVIDED IN ACCORDANCE WITH TWO 40 POINT 21 C 7 0 5 POINT 50 INTERCONNECTED.
MICROGRIDS MICROGRID SYSTEMS SHALL BE CAPABLE OF OPERATING IN AN INTERACTIVE MODE WITH A PRIMARY SOURCE OF POWER UTILITY OR OTHER POWER PRODUCTION OR DISTRIBUTION NETWORK.
MICROGRIDS, MICROGRID SYSTEMS SHALL BE PERMITTED TO DISCONNECT FROM OTHER SOURCES AND OPERATE IN ISLAND MODE.
SO A QUESTION FOR CPS, SO WE TALK ABOUT ISLAND MODE, WHICH SOUNDS NIFTY.
UM,
UM, YEAH, WE, WE'D HAVE TO SAY THAT.
I MEAN, WE DO A COMMISSIONING TEST, RIGHT? ALL, ALL THE SYSTEMS HAVE TO BE REGISTERED WITH US.
UM, ESPECIALLY NORMALLY THESE ARE IN, IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY WANT A NET METER RIGHT? WHERE THEY WANT CREDIT FOR, FOR BILLING.
UM, AND SO WE GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS TO, TO VET, UM, A LOT OF THESE SYSTEMS YOU SEE IS WITH THE BATTERIES, RIGHT? WHEN THEY WANT TO OPERATE AS A, AS A BACKUP, UH, FOR EMERGENCY POWER.
LEMME LET ME TAKE THIS, VALERIE AND, AND TAKE IT BACK AND KIND OF LOOK AT THAT AND, AND WITH OUR REST OF OUR STUFF,
THIS IS ONE WE'RE PROPOSING FOR IN ADDITION TO CHAPTER 10.
AND THIS IS ON BEHALF OF CPS ENERGY, UH, ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS SHALL BE COMMISSIONED UPON INSTALLATION.
AND WHAT WAS ADDED INTO THE CHAPTER 10 WAS, EXCEPT FOR ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS.
SO CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT COMMISSIONED MEANS? IT'S WHERE CPS DOES THEIR TESTING OF THE SYSTEM, SO, SO YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL GO AND, UM, SO WE ENSURE THAT THE SYSTEM IS BUILT TO THE WAY IT WAS DESIGNED, UM, AND SUBMITTED FOR US FOR, FOR APPROVAL ON INTERCONNECTION.
UM, AND THEN WE WILL, UH, AT THAT POINT VALIDATE THAT IT, IT WORKS PROPERLY FOR THE CUSTOMER, AND THEN WE WILL, UH, SWITCH THE METERS OUT.
SO WE HAVE TO SWITCH, WE HAVE TO PLACE A, A BIDIRECTIONAL METER INSTALL A, A PV METER IN THE CASE OF SOLAR.
SO WHY DOES THE CODE EXEMPT OUT ONE IN TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS? AND YOU WANNA PUT THEM BACK IN? I I, I, I DON'T KNOW.
FROM, FROM OUR STANDPOINT, WE'RE JUST ENSURING THAT THE WAY IT'S INTERCONNECTED,
[01:30:01]
UM, DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH THE GRID.UM, SO QUESTION, UH, THIS IS LON.
UH, I KNOW ON THE, UH, ENERGY CODE, UH, THERE'S SPECIFIC THINGS FOR COMMISSIONING THAT LEAD TO, UH, SOMEBODY ON THE OWNER SIDE SPENDING MONEY TO FILL OUT REPORTS, DO THINGS A LOT OF TIMES THEY'RE VERY USEFUL AND GOOD, AND THERE'S A THRESHOLD THAT IS APPLIED.
SO MY QUESTION, NOT KNOWING EXACTLY WHERE ALL THIS LANDS, IS IT, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE OWNERS, UH, THE BUILDERS BEING REQUIRED TO HIRE A, UH, INDEPENDENT COMMISSIONING AGENT TO PROVIDE FORMS THAT WOULD THEN GO SOMEWHERE? NO, SIR.
THIS IS CPS ACTUALLY PERFORMING THE COMMISSIONING THEMSELVES.
SO THEY, THEY WOULD PREFER TO HAVE THE ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLING EXCEPTION REMOVED.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, THEY WOULD STILL BE IN THERE SO THAT THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED, YOU KNOW, CPS WOULD BE ALLOWED TO PERFORM THEIR COMMISSIONING.
AND THIS IS FOR ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS. AND WHAT, WHAT IS THE COST THAT YOU CHARGE THE CUSTOMER? IT'S FREE.
WE, WE DON'T CHARGE THE CUSTOMER FOR THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ESSENTIAL FOR, FOR US TO SWAP OUT THE, THE EQUIPMENT RIGHT.
AND I THINK BY NOT ALLOWING US TO, TO DO THAT, I THINK THAT MAY EVEN BE A CONFLICT OF OUR CUSTOMER TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF HAVING, YOU KNOW, 24 7 ACCESS TO, TO THE EQUIPMENT AND SITE.
UM, YEAH, I'M NOT QUITE SURE HOW OR WHAT THE NAC IS REFERRING TO WHEN THEY SAY COMM WHEN THEY SAY COMMISSIONING MM-HMM.
THE, THE, PROBABLY THE ONLY PERSONNEL THAT'S REQUIRED TO BE THERE IS, OR THE EVENT OF HAVING TO BE THERE AS THE INSTALLER WHEN IT COMES TO SITUATIONS OF BATTERIES.
UM, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING DOESN'T WORK RIGHT, THEY'RE THERE TO, TO FIX IT ON SITE.
UM, SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO BE REPROGRAMMED.
RIGHT? UM, AND THEN SOMETIMES THE ACCESS IS WITHIN A GARAGE.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE ENTRANCE FOR THAT.
THAT'S SOMETHING WE DON'T NORMALLY DO IS, IS GO INTO ANYONE'S PROPERTY FROM THAT STANDPOINT.
UM, SO THIS IS, UH, NOT CURRENTLY THE CODE IN SAN ANTONIO.
THE NEC HAS ADDED THE WORD COMMISSIONING.
AND, AND, UH, MY, MY CONCERN IS THAT THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER RAMIFICATIONS TO THIS, AND THAT THIS VERBIAGE MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY BE A, EITHER PREVENT OR ALLOW CPS AND I, I JUST DON'T WANT TO, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS TO DO COMMISSIONING.
'CAUSE IT'S, THAT PARTICULAR THING HAS CAUSED, THAT WORD HAS CAUSED CHALLENGES FOR US IN THE INDUSTRY.
UH, SO, SO CAN YOU GO TO THE NEC DEFINITIONS AND IT GIVES A DEFINITION OF WHAT COMMISSIONING IS? YES, IT IS.
SO COMMISSIONING AND PROCESS PROCEDURES, TESTING USED TO SET UP AND VERIFY INITIAL PERFORMANCE, OPERATIONAL CONTROLS, SAFETY SYSTEMS, AND SEQUENCE OF OPERATION OF ELECTRICAL DEVICES AND EQUIPMENT PRIOR TO IT BEING PLACED INTO ACTIVE SERVICE.
SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT IS, IS IF YOU VERIFY THAT IT'S GONNA OPERATE AS, AS EXPECTED BEFORE IT GOES INTO SERVICE.
AND MY GUESS IS THE REASON THEY HAD TOOK OUT ONE IN TWO FAMILIES BECAUSE THE SIZE OF THE SYSTEM IS INSIGNIFICANT, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT TO PEOPLE THAT IN THOSE UNITS HAVE TO PAY FOR THE TESTING.
BUT SINCE CPS DOES IT FOR FREE, I DON'T THINK IT'S A ISSUE.
MY, MY GUESS IS THAT THE, UH, UTILITY MEMBERS OF THE NFPA BOARD WANTED THE SINGLE DWELLINGS REMOVED, BUT SINCE CPS IS OKAY WITH IT, PUTTING IT BACK IN MM-HMM.
WELL, ALL DUE RESPECT TO OUR CPS FRIENDS IN THE HOUSE HERE.
WHAT'S THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURDEN ON THAT? BECAUSE I MEAN, JUST TO BE BLUNT, CPS UM, BUILDS SIGNIFICANT TIME INTO THE TIMEFRAME OF PROJECTS.
UM, BUT THEN NOW CPS IS GONNA COME OUT WITH THEIR COMMISSIONING STANDARDS.
THAT MAY BE WHAT DIFFERENT, IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT
[01:35:01]
THE CITY SEES THAT'S IN THE CODE, WHY DO WE NEED CPS TO DO IT? AND THEN AGAIN, CPS IS NOT REALLY DESIGNED FOR RESIDENTIAL, BASICALLY INSPECTION PROCESSES.I MEAN, I, AND AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE GRATUITOUS, BUT SEE, LIKE JUST HAVING BEEN DEALING WITH CPS ON, ON SOLAR STUFF, I MEAN, IT'S BUILT A TON OF TIME INTO THE PROCESS, UH, JUST WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING.
AND SO DO WE REALLY WANT TO INFLICT THAT UPON THE, WELL, THIS IS ONE MORE DISTRIBUTED GENERATION SYSTEM.
IT WOULD JUST ADD TO THE LIST OF OTHER DISTRIBUTED GENERATION THAT CPS ALREADY COMMISSIONS, INSPECTORS DON'T DO ANY KIND OF TESTING FOR HOW THE BACK FEED IS WORKING INTO THE SYSTEM, HOW IT'S PREVENTED.
SO THEY'RE LOOKING AT PROTECTION OF THEIR FOLKS TOO, AT THE SAME TIME.
WHEN COMMISSIONING OCCURS, RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, AND WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO GO AND INSTALL A BI DIRECT, PHYSICALLY INSTALL A BIDIRECTIONAL METER.
SO THAT'S PART OF THE INSPECTION, OR THAT'S PART OF THE, I'M SORRY, COMMISSIONING OF THE SYSTEM NOW, I THINK, YOU KNOW, OFFLINE AND, AND WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS THE TIME BUILT IN TO YOUR SPECIFIC PROJECT.
THERE WAS CERTAIN ISSUES RELATED TO PLATS AND OTHER THINGS THAT, THAT HAD BROUGHT INTO THAT ONCE WE WENT INTO THAT SITE.
THAT WAS A ANOTHER PIECE OF THAT.
I MEAN, AGAIN, VOLUME DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS HOW THAT GOES, BUT I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN OPERATING AT LIKE A ONE WEEK TURNAROUND TIME TO, TO GET THOSE KIND OF THINGS DONE.
THAT IT'S NOT JUST THAT PLATTING ISSUE, IT'S ALWAYS THAT WE, WE CAN
WELL, WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN IS AT, AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME, AND THIS MAY CHANGE OVER TIME, HOW MANY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS YOU'RE ACTUALLY SEEING BEING INSTALLED IN ONE, TWO FAMILY GOING? YES.
AND, AND THE SYSTEMS ARE GETTING LARGER.
ARE SEEING, YOU KNOW, SYSTEMS OVER 25 KW YOU KNOW, AT TIMES.
AND SO FOR US, IT'S SIGNIFICANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'VE GOT EYES ON AND, AND MAKE SURE IT OPERATES AND ISOLATES PROPERLY.
I MEAN, WE, I KNOW JUST COMING OFF OF THE, UH, NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION CONFERENCE, THERE'S A LOT MORE OF THESE SYSTEMS. MM-HMM.
THERE, THERE'S, THE STANDARDS REALLY HAVEN'T COME INTO PLAY YET.
THERE'S NOT, YOU KNOW, BUT I WOULD SEE IN THE NEXT CODE CYCLE MAYBE TOO, WHERE THIS PARTICULAR ARTICLE SPECIFICALLY IS REALLY GONNA START GETTING DIALED IN.
SO, SO ONE MORE, ONE MORE FOLLOW UP.
SO THE CODE SAYS IT SHALL BE COMMISSIONED MM-HMM.
SO, UM, THE INSPECTOR CAN SAY, HEY, YOU NEED TO COMMISSION THIS BEFORE I GIVE YOU AN APPROVAL, AND YOU GOTTA GET THAT APPROVAL BEFORE YOU CAN CONNECT EITHER UTILITY.
SO NOW WHAT HAPPENS? WHO COMMISSIONS IT? SO THE, THE CITY CAN ENFORCE THAT AND SAY, NO, YOU NEED TO COMMISSION THIS, BUT WHAT ARE THE, WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS? AND THEN ALSO HOW DOES THAT IN ANY WAY ALLOW OR PREVENT CPS? I JUST DON'T EXACTLY UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS.
WELL, WHEN WE SEND OUR, UH, WHEN WE DO OUR INSPECTION, THE RELEASE IS SENT TO THEM ONCE IT'S APPROVED, IS SENT TO CPS ENERGY.
SO AT THAT TIME, THEN THEY KNOW THEY'RE COMMISSIONING, IT'S BACK, IT'S OVER IN THEIR SIDE OF THE HOUSE, IF YOU WILL, SO THAT THAT RELEASE TELLS THEM THAT WE'VE APPROVED IT AND WE'VE DONE IT.
WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN PLACE TO DO ANY KIND OF REQUIREMENT FOR COMMISSIONING TO US, WHAT CPS DOES IS THE COMMISSIONING.
NOW, WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS IT DOES MAKE REFERENCE TO, UM, NFPA 8 55.
I COULD CERTAINLY RESEARCH INTO THAT AND SEE WHAT THAT HAS TO SAY ABOUT COMMISSIONING.
BUT IN OUR ESTIMATION, THE COMMISSIONING WE LOOK AT IS WHAT CPS ENERGY DOES ON THESE DISTRIBUTED GENERATION SYSTEMS. YEAH.
AND I THINK THAT THEN EC LANGUAGE IS NOT CLEAR THAT THAT'S WHAT'S BEING ASKED FOR, RIGHT.
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE ALLOW CPS TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO MM-HMM.
TO MAKE IT SAFE, BUT NOT HAVE IT UNCLEAR.
NOT HAVE A THIRD PARTY LIKE THE ENERGY CODES REQUIREMENT.
IT'S WELL JUST NOT TO KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN BY ALLOWING THIS.
'CAUSE THERE WAS A REASON WHY THE CODE MAKING PANEL IN A DELIBERATE FASHION TOOK THAT OUT OF THERE.
AND IF, IF, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TOTAL PROCESS TO GET A LITTLE MORE INFO ON WHY THAT LANGUAGE IS IN THERE, AND THEN MAYBE THERE'S A
[01:40:01]
SPECIFIC CHAPTER 10 THING THAT SAYS, THIS IS FOR CPS TO BLESS THE SYSTEM OR COM COMMISSIONER IT OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO.WELL, IF YOU WANT WANTED TO TABLE THIS ONE, I COULD RESEARCH IT MORE INTO THE NFPA SECTION THAT IT REFERS TO, AND THEN MAYBE WE COULD AT THAT TIME CONSIDER ENTERING SOMETHING INTO THE CHAPTER 10 THAT REFERS THAT THE COMMISSIONING THAT THIS SECTION REFERS TO IS DONE BY CPS ENERGY.
I THINK MORE INFO WOULD BE GOOD.
I I WOULD DEFER TO THE GROUP TO HEAR SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT.
BUT I, IF IT'S GOING TO BE COMMISSIONED BY CPS, I THINK WE SHOULD JUST SAY COMMISSIONED BY CPS UPON INSTALLATION.
SO THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT A THIRD PARTY CAN'T BE, BECAUSE THE WAY THIS READS IS THAT WE COULD HIRE AN ENGINEER TO COMMISSION IT, AND AT THAT POINT IT'S, WE MET THE CODE WITH THE, AND THAT'S REALLY NOT WHAT Y'ALL WOULD WANT.
THAT'S, THAT WOULDN'T BE WHAT WE'RE CHECKING FOR, TO MAKE SURE THAT IN THE CITY LIMITS, THERE ARE NO OTHER POWER SUPPLIERS OTHER THAN CPS.
SERVICE TERRITORY EXTENDS BEYOND THE CITY.
BUT THIS, THIS CODE ONLY APPLIES TO CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
NO, NO, I KNOW, BUT, BUT THE AMENDMENTS WE'RE MAKING ONLY CORRECT.
WELL, I THINK TO THAT POINT, CPS, COULD THAT ADD THAT REQUIREMENT TO THEIR STANDARDS AS WELL? MM-HMM.
SO ARE WE TABLING IT OR DO YOU JUST WANNA HAVE THAT SECTION ADD ADDED? THE CPS IS, IS COMFORTABLE WITH THIS JUST SIMPLY ADDING VERBIAGE THAT COMMISSIONING BE PERFORMED BY THE CITY, BY CPS ENERGY.
THEN I THINK YOU, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO TAKE ONE THAT, THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE AS STILL ALLOWING US TO DO THE COMMISSIONING.
SO, SO WOULD THAT CPS COMMISSIONING APPLY TO, UH, AND MAYBE YOU CAN SPEAK, UH, A LITTLE BIT WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE ON A LARGER COMMERCIAL INSTALLATION AND, AND WHAT YOU WOULD SEE WITH CPS AND THE COMMISSIONING VERSUS THE, WE DON'T WANNA DISQUALIFY AN UNKNOWN FROM DOING THE COMMISSIONING SAYING, OKAY, HERE IT WORKS.
YOU, YOU MAY NOT SEE THAT ON THE SMALLER RESIDENTIALS, AND YOU, I KNOW CPS WANTS TO LOOK AT THIS STUFF, UHHUH
SO HOW DOES THAT WORK WITH THE BIGGER JOBS? THE, THE SAME WAY, I MEAN, WE STILL GO OUT, WE STILL HAVE TO SWAP THE, THE, THE PHYSICAL METER.
WE STILL ENSURE THAT IT, IT ISOLATES WHEN REQUIRED.
UM, SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES, AT LEAST AT THE TIME OF COMMISSIONING, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES, UH, WITH IMPROPER BACK FEEDING.
AND, AND SO CCPS COMMISSIONING THESE SYSTEMS NOW BECAUSE THAT, THAT CODE CHANGE PUTS THAT WORD IN THERE.
I'M JUST, I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CODE CHANGE VERSUS WHAT CPS IS DOING.
WHAT, WHAT I'VE SEEN OCCUR IN THE PAST IS THE ENGINEER RECORD IS GONNA PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION TO CLEARLY OUTLINE AND IDENTIFY THE EQUIPMENT AND INSTALLATION AND INTENT MOVING FOR, FOR PROJECT AT CONCLUSION, UH, THEY ARE GOING TO DO A FAIRLY EXTENSIVE COMMISSIONING PROCESS, TESTING PROCESS IN-HOUSE TO, TO VALIDATE THAT EVERYTHING OPERATES CORRECTLY.
AT THAT POINT, THEN CPS WOULD BE INVITED IN, NOT UNLIKE WHAT A FIRE ALARM CONTRACTOR DOES.
THEN AT THAT POINT, THE ELECTRICAL WOULD BE FULLY TESTED.
CPS WOULD BE INVITED TO COME IN, WITNESS WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, ASK ANY QUESTIONS, REQUEST ANY ADDITIONAL TESTING REQUIREMENTS AND PARAMETERS TO BE ESTABLISHED AND PERFORMED.
AND THEN THE SYSTEM BE TURNED OVER AND ENERGIZED IS TYPICALLY THE WAY WE WORK.
AND SO THE, THE CLARIFICATION THAT I'M SEEING, I MAY NOT BE QUITE RIGHT ON THIS, IS THAT THE, UH, QUALIFY OR THE, UH, ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE TO SAY THAT CPS IS DOING THIS COMMISSIONING REALLY APPLIES TO THE, UH, ONE OR TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS.
WELL, CPS DOES COMMISSIONING ON ALL OF THESE ANY DISTRIBUTED GENERATION SYSTEM, BUT IT'S NOT INTENDED TO PUT A RESTRICTION TO NOT ALLOW A BUILDING OWNER TO HIRE SOMEBODY TO DO IT.
[01:45:01]
BUT IN THE END OF THE DAY, THERE IS A REQUIREMENT THAT, THAT CERTIFICATION BY THE PRIVATE CONTRACTOR MM-HMM.
AND SO, SO THE COMMISSIONING, THE COMMISSIONING IS DONE BY CPS, NOT BY A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR, THE PRIVATE CONTRACTOR'S, JUST ENSURING THAT WHEN CPS GETS OUT THERE, IT'S A FIVE MINUTE PROCESS RATHER THAN A FIVE DAY PROCESS? YEAH.
FROM OUR STANDPOINT, AGAIN, WE ARE ENSURING THE, THE COMMISSIONING IS HAPPENING AND WE'RE ENSURING THAT THE SYSTEM PROPERLY ISOLATES FROM US AND FUNCTIONS THE WAY IT'S INTENDED TO.
AND THEN WE'LL SWITCH THE, THE METERS OUT FOR A BI-DIRECTIONAL METER.
PERHAPS THE VERBIAGE COULD SAY SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF, UH, COMMISSIONING IS CONSIDERED PROCESS DONE BY CPS ENERGY.
I WOULD JUST, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT SHALL BE COMMISSIONED BY CPS UPON INSTALLATION.
IT'S A LITTLE AFTER 11 MM-HMM.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS RECAP WHAT WE'VE COVERED SO FAR TODAY.
SO WE BEGAN WITH TWO SECTIONS THAT WERE TABLED FROM OUR PREVIOUS MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 24TH.
THAT WAS ARTICLE FOUR, 40.8, AS WELL AS TWO 30 POINT 30 B.
THEN WE WENT ON AND WE COVERED ARTICLES.
4 45, 4 54 74 95, 505 0 5, 5 0 9, 5 12, 5 17, 5 18, 5 35 47, 5 55, 51, 5 55, 600, 6 26 25, 6 30, 6 46, EXCUSE ME.
90 31 B ONE, WE'VE TABLED FOR CPS REVIEW.
WE TABLED 7 0 5 POINT 50 FOR CPS REVIEW.
AND THEN, UH, WE JUST FINISHED, UH, OUR CONVERSATION ON 7 0 6.
I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ACCEPT THESE ARTICLES AS LISTED.
SO MAY WE HAVE A MOTION? DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
ANY DISCUSSION? JUST BRIEFLY? I DON'T HAVE A, I'M NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE, SO I DON'T IF I'M ALLOWED TO TALK RIGHT NOW, BUT, UH, FOUR 40.8, WE WERE GONNA ADD AN AMENDMENT.
SO DO WE NEED TO, UNTIL WE SEE THE LANGUAGE OF THAT AMENDMENT, HOLD OFF ON ASSIGN THAT ONE.
AND SAME WITH 10, CHAPTER 10, SEVEN.
OH 6.7 WAS GONNA BE AN AMENDMENT.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE OF THAT AMENDMENT.
DO WE WANNA WAIT AND, AND SEE IT? OR DID IS, DID I MISS THAT? IS IT THERE? WE HAD NOT SHOWED THAT LANGUAGE, UM, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THAT.
LET'S SEE IF WE COULD HAVE THAT LANGUAGE PREPARED FOR US FOR NEXT TIME.
SO THAT WAS TWO 30 POINT 30 B.
AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER ONE IS FOUR 40.8, AND THEN THE 7 0 6 0.7.
AND ALSO THE NUMBERING ON 7 0 6, BECAUSE THE BOOK ENDS AT 7 0 6 5.
DOES IT NEED TO BE SIX MINUTIA? NOT SURE MATTERS FOR NOW.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE AMENDMENT 7 0 6 0.7.
I'M LOOKING AT THE, IS THAT THE 2023? ARE YOU, ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE 2023 BOOK? JUST TO MAKE SURE YOU, THAT MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE.
THERE IS A 7 0, 6 0.6 AND A SEVEN.
[01:50:02]
INDIVIDUAL WHO PRESENTED THE MOTION BE WILLING TO MODIFY THE MOTION? YES.THAT, SO WE WILL, WE'RE GONNA REVISIT TWO 30 POINT 30 B AS WELL AS FOUR 40.8 ALONG WITH SIX 90.31 AND 7, 7 0 5 POINT 50.
SO WE HAVE MARK ROSS AS THE MOTION.
WHO WAS THE SECOND JUST FOR RECORD? UH, EDWARD.
OKAY, SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND AS AMENDED.
AND THEN RON, CAN WE ALSO, IF SOMEBODY HAS SOMETHING THEY WANT REVISITED, BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED THAT WHEN YOU STARTED.
I MEAN, WE CAN NEED TO IDENTIFY THOSE SO THEY GET BACK ON THE LIST TO TALK ABOUT.
GARY, DO YOU WANT, WE PROBABLY WON'T TALK ABOUT IT NOW, BUT IF YOU WANT TO LET US KNOW WHAT THEY ARE, WE CAN MAKE SURE WE HAVE IT READY TO GO.
UH, CHAPTER 10 AMENDMENT, UH, TWO 50.1 20.
UH, THE CITY REQUIRING THAT WHEN A CIRCUIT BREAKER PANEL IN AN EXISTING HOUSE IS REPLACED AND IT HAS A THREE WIRE SERVICE CONDUCTOR, IT, A FOUR WIRE SERVICE CONDUCTOR IS GONNA BE REQUIRED TO BE INSTALLED.
AND THERE WAS SOME, UH, COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, SOME OF THESE CHANGES AND THE POTENTIAL COST THAT'S GOING TO BE OCCURRED TO THE HOMEOWNERS.
AND I SEE THIS AS A, A SIGNIFICANT COST TO A HOMEOWNER OR A PROPERTY OWNER, UH, TO FOLLOW THIS PROVISION.
AND THEY'RE, THE HOMEOWNER'S GOING TO, UM, UH, FOR LACK OF BETTER WORDS, UH, NOT BE VERY HAPPY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCING ONE COST THAT MAY BE A COUPLE THOUSAND DOLLARS TO REPLACE A PANEL DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF IT.
BUT HAVING TO REPLACE THAT CIRCUIT FROM THE OUTSIDE OF THE INSIDE, UH, COULD BE DRAMATICALLY MORE WHERE YOU, DEPENDING ON THE STRUCTURE, IT COULD BE A TWO STORY WHERE THE, THE BREAKER PANEL IS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND THE FEEDER IS RUN THROUGH THE TRUSSES ON THE, BETWEEN THE TWO FLOORS.
NOW YOU'RE GOING TO INCUR A LOT OF CUTTING, PATCHING, REPAIRING.
SO, LONG STORY SHORT, THIS IS GOING TO BE A, UH, A BIG TIME ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE HOMEOWNERS AND TO, TO CONTINUE ON.
THE COMMENT THAT WE'RE GONNA GET FROM THE HOMEOWNER IS, I'M NOT CHANGING ANYTHING.
I'M JUST REPLAYING, LIKE, FOR LIKE ITEMS, WHY DO I HAVE TO, TO MAKE THIS FEEDER CHANGE WHEN IT WAS NOT A PROBLEM BEFORE.
AND I THOUGHT IN THE LAST CODE CYCLE, BECAUSE WE RAISED THIS ISSUE IN APARTMENTS WHERE THEY WERE REPLACING PANELS AND CLOSETS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT WE ADDED AN AMENDMENT THAT SAID, AS LONG AS YOU REPLACE, LIKE, WITH LIKE, YOU COULD MAKE THE REPLACEMENT WITHOUT DO RELOCATING IT, CHANGING THE WIRES, DOING ANYTHING.
SO THAT WAS AN AMENDMENT WE MADE THE LAST CODE CYCLE BECAUSE THAT WAS OUR ISSUE LAST TIME.
BUT I THINK IT'S APROPOS TO THIS ONE.
SO IF YOU'RE, I MEAN, IF EVERYTHING IS THE SAME AND YOU'RE JUST UPGRADING THE PANEL, YOU KNOW, WHY HAVE TO GO TO THE EXPENSE OF SPENDING PROBABLY FOUR OR $5,000 BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, OR MAYBE MORE DEPENDING ON HOW FAR YOU HAVE TO GO AND HOW HARD IT IS TO GET.
WELL, JUST SO WE CLARIFY, AND I REALIZE THIS IS ONLY GONNA BE PUT ON THE AGENDA SO WE DON'T GET TOO BOGGED DOWN IN IT.
AN UPGRADE WOULD NECESSITATE A FEEDER REPLACEMENT.
A REPLACEMENT IS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, I THINK, AND I, I COULD, I'LL HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK, BUT I THINK WHAT WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT WAS NOT TO, UM, MOVING IT OUT OF A CLOSET.
SO WE JUST MAKE SURE IT'S ON THE AGENDA.
SO I, I KNOW IT'S A BIG CAN OF WORMS AND I DON'T WANT TO GET IT OPEN TOO FAR NOW, SO.
SO DISCUSSING THAT, SO I KNOW EDWARD AND GARY ARE OUT COMPLETELY NEXT WEEK, OR WHAT IS Y'ALL'S? NO, IT CHANGED.
WELL, HOPEFULLY, UM, ALL RIGHT, WELL THEN, PERFECT.
SO THAT GIVES US, UH, SO EVERYTHING SHOULD BE GOOD.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY? SO WE'RE MOVING TO WEDNESDAY NEXT WEEK AT 9:00 AM IS THE, UH, CURRENT SCHEDULE FOR, UH, WHAT MAY BE THE LAST, IT'S OUR LAST SCHEDULED
[01:55:01]
ELECTRICAL, UH, COMMITTEE MEETING.UH, WE CAN DEFINITELY ADD ANOTHER ONE IF NEEDED.
UH, WE'LL FIND SOME TIME AVAILABLE, BUT I THINK BASED ON WHAT WE'RE SEEING, HOPEFULLY IF WE CAN PROVIDE ALL THE INFORMATION, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO WRAP THIS UP, UH, THAT MEETING.
BUT ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH, UH, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE HAVE QUORUM FOR NEXT WEDNESDAY AT NINE O'CLOCK.
UH, THEN THAT CONCLUDES EVERYTHING ON OUR END.
SO I'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE CHAIR TO END THE MEETING.
I THOUGHT SOMEBODY DID I MISSED YOU.
ANY DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.