* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] ALL RIGHT, EVERYBODY. GOOD? BOARD SUBCOMMITTEE READY? OKAY. EXCELLENT. GOOD MORNING. JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES BOARD LIAISON FOR THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES PILLS AND ADVISORY BOARD. THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME TODAY. THIS IS THE THIRD MEETING OF THE ELECTRICAL CODE SUBCOMMITTEE. TODAY IS OCTOBER 16TH, 2024. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO THE CHAIR. ALRIGHT, UH, COULD WE GO AHEAD [ Roll Call  ] AND DO OUR ROLL CALL AND CONFIRM QUORUM? SORRY. MARK ROSS. HERE. RON ECKES. HERE. PRESENT. EDWARD DEL TORO. HERE AMONG CULBERTSON. HERE. JOE LAOS HERE. ALL RIGHT. OUR, UH, FIVE PRIMARY MEMBERS ARE PRESENT AND WE DO HAVE QUORUM. AND THEN I THINK WE CAN DO THE INTERPRETERS OF ANNOUNCEMENT REAL QUICK. GOOD MORNING. SPANISH TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE DURING THIS MEETING. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED IN SPANISH. TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE FOR APPLICANTS. AND THOSE THAT SIGNED UP TO RECEIVE A CALLBACK BU THANK YOU. ADDITIONALLY, WE DO OFFER, UH, A SL INTERPRETERS IF ANYBODY WOULD REQUEST THAT PRIOR TO THE MEETING. UH, WE'LL WORK TO BRING THOSE INTERPRETERS HERE FOR THE MEETING. ALL RIGHT, OUR FIRST ITEM ON [ Approval of Minutes  ] THE AGENDA IS APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER 8TH. MOVE APPROVAL. WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? A MOTION TO SECOND. DO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? NO PUBLIC COMMENTS. [ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items  ] DO WE HAVE ANY ADDITIONS TO THE SECOND COMMITTEE? UH, WE DO. WE HAVE, UH, MR. CHRIS ALVARADO, UH, THAT WOULD LIKE TO JOIN THE SUBCOMMITTEE. UM, THERE'S, I KNOW WE KIND OF WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS. UM, ON THE APPLICATION WE RECEIVED, THERE WAS MISCOMMUNICATION. WE THOUGHT HE WANTED TO BE ON THE BUILDING AND FIRE CODE. SO THAT'S WHAT WE ADDED. UM, EARLIER IN THIS PROCESS, WHEN WE HAD THE FULL BOARD MEETING, UH, BASED ON SOME COMMUNICATIONS WITH HIM, I, WE'VE, UH, CORRECTED THAT ISSUE. UH, HE WASN'T ABLE TO MAKE THE YES. LAST WEEK'S MEETING, AND HE WAS NOT AWARE OF THE CHANGE THAT WE MADE TO THE BEGINNING OF THIS, OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE WHEN WE MOVED FORWARD. UH, 'CAUSE I WASN'T COMMUNICATING WITH HIM ON THAT ONE. UH, BUT HE WOULD LIKE TO ATTEND THIS LAST MEETING AS PART OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE. MOVE TO APPROVE CHRIS RADO TO THE SUBC. WE HAVE A MOTION TO ACCEPT. CHRIS, DO WE HAVE A SECOND? EDWARD DEL TORO. I ACCEPT THE MOTION. WE HAVE A MOTION. AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. MOTION CARRIES. WELCOME, CHRIS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALL RIGHT. UH, SO I WILL TURN IT OVER TO CHIEF VALERIE GLISTEN AND ASSISTANT DIRECTOR CRYSTAL GONZALEZ TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION OF THE NEC. GOOD MORNING. THIS IS VALERIE GLEASON, CHIEF ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR. I KNOW WE WERE GONNA GO BACK AND TALK ABOUT A FEW SECTIONS. UH, ONE OF THEM I THINK WAS ADDITIONAL CPS INPUT. THIS WAS, UH, CHAPTER 10, SECTION 2 30, 30 B, CONCERNING THE CONCRETE ENCASEMENT OF TYPES. H-D-P-E-R, T-R-C-N-U-C-C, OR TYPE PVC. UM, WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING WAS ADDING CONTROLLED LOW STRENGTH MATERIAL OR CLSM TO THOSE FOUR TYPES. ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? IS THERE A PSI REQUIREMENT FOR CONCRETE? YOU MEAN FLOWABLE FILL? WELL, UH, GOING BACK TO THE CONCRETE, IT SAYS IT HAS TO BE ENCASED IN CONCRETE. SO YOU DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF CONCRETE AND WHAT THE STRENGTH OF THE CONCRETE IS OR ANYTHING, AS LONG AS IT'S THREE INCHES. SO I WANNA BE CLEAR. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SECONDARY SIDE OF MM-HMM. OF THE TRANSFORMERS. AND TYPICALLY THAT'S CUSTOMER, UH, DRIVEN. SO, [00:05:01] I MEAN, FROM, FROM A CPS STANDPOINT, WE DO CONCRETE IN CASE OUR PRIMARY, UM, AND ALSO IN, IN AREAS REQUIRED FLOW WILL FILL IT. UM, BUT YEAH, BUT, BUT TO, TO THAT QUESTION ON OUR PRIMARY, OUR, OUR PSI RATING, I THINK FOR FLOWABLE FILL WAS IN OUR CONTRACTS OF, OF 300 PSI. THAT'S GOOD. ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR CLARIFICATIONS? I DID HAVE ONE OTHER CLARIFICATION TO ADD. THIS WILL BE FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS ONLY. CPS RAISED A CONCERN ABOUT IF WE HAD SOMETHING EXISTING AND THEN THEY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO ADD THE CONCRETE ENCASEMENT. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEW INSTALLATIONS. SO DO WE WANT TO ADD SOMEWHERE IN THE, FOR NEW INSTALLATIONS SOMEWHERE? IS THERE A WAY, DO THAT NEW INSTALLATIONS OF UNDERGROUND SERVICE CONDUCTOR IS THE WAY THIS CURRENTLY READS. IF THEY REPLACE SOMETHING OR SOMETHING, IT WOULD ALSO LOOK LIKE, RIGHT. WE WERE LOOKING AT, LIKE, IT IS ON THIS SCREEN IN RED IS THE SECTION I, WE CAN PROBABLY ADD NEW INSTALLATION THERE. ALL OF THEM. I MEAN, YOU, DOES IT APPLY TO ALL OF THEM? THOSE FOUR TYPES? THOSE FOUR THE MOST COMMON? YES MA'AM. UM, THE MOST COMMON WOULD BE THE PVC UH, QUE QUESTION. THIS IS LON. HI LON. HI. GOOD MORNING. UM, I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WOULD IN ANY WAY BE, UH, REQUIRED FOR AN EXISTING INSTALLATION BECAUSE WHAT'S THERE IS THERE, YOU'RE NOT BUILDING ANYTHING? WELL, CAN YOU CLARIFY, IF THEY WERE TO, UM, SAY, UNCOVER IT FOR ANY REASON, MAYBE ADD ANOTHER BECAUSE THE SERVICE IS BEING UPGRADED, SO THEY'RE ADDING ANOTHER LINK TO IT. WE WEREN'T GONNA ADD THAT EXPENSE IN AN EXISTING CONDITION TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. OKAY. SO, SO TO BE CLEAR, FOR EXAMPLE, I EXPOSE THE EXISTING CONDUIT MM-HMM. . AND THEY HAD ANOTHER ONE. I MEAN, MY THINKING IS I'D WANT THE FLOWABLE FILL OVER ALL OF IT. MM-HMM. . IS THAT WHAT THE CODE LANGUAGE WOULD REQUIRE? NOW, DID YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, I KNOW MATTHEWS HAD BROUGHT UP A CONCERN ABOUT EXISTING CONDITIONS, IF THERE WERE ANY REASON THIS WOULD BE UNCOVERED. SO, SO IN SOME CASES, WE'LL HAVE TO REPLACE, YOU KNOW, OLD OR OUTDATED EQUIPMENT OUT IN THE FIELD. A TRANSFORMER, LET'S JUST SAY, AND IT HAS TO BE RELOCATED. IT CAN'T GO BACK IN THE SAME PLACE. AND SO AS, AS OUR DUE DILIGENCE, WE'LL, WE WILL MOVE IT AND THEN HAVE TO TIE BACK INTO THE EXISTING. AND SO THAT, THAT IS WHERE THAT BECOMES AN ISSUE. OR IF THEY SAY, HEY, IT'S GOTTA GO, YOU KNOW, ALL THE WAY. AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE OUR QUESTION WAS, IS WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MATCH UP TO AN EXISTING CONDUIT RUN, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD THOSE REQUIREMENTS BE? BUT WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO TIE ONTO WHAT LAWN? I THINK WHAT IF YOU MOVE IT 10 FEET AND YOU'RE EXTENDING ALL THE WIRES 10 FEET TO CONNECT TO A NEW TRANSFORMER LOCATION, WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO COVER IT WITH THE FLOW WILL FILL? I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ASKING. RIGHT? WELL, WELL, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE WOULD PUT FOLDABLE FILL OVER SOMETHING THAT'S BURIED. AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD REQUIRE THAT. BUT IF YOU EXPOSE 20 FOOT OF IT COVERED UP MM-HMM. . BUT YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DIG ACROSS AND FILL IT BACK IN. EXACTLY. THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY EXACTLY. THINKING OF WHAT I WOULD WANT THE CONTRACTOR TO HAVE TO DO. CORRECT. IF THERE WERE, UH, DAMAGE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE WOULDN'T REQUIRE IT. THIS WAS ACTUALLY IN THE CHAPTER 10 UNTIL THE LAST TIME, THE LAST CODE ADOPTION AND IT AT ONE TIME RESTRICTED CERTAIN MATERIALS, WHICH UNDER STATE LAW WE COULDN'T DO. SO THE ENTIRE SECTION WAS REMOVED RATHER THAN JUST THE CONCRETE ENCASEMENT PORTION. SO THEY WERE, AT ONE TIME IT EVEN INCLUDED NO EXPOSED PVC ABOVE GROUND TOO. SO, WHICH WAS A CONCERN. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF THE EXISTING ONES OUT THERE ACTUALLY AREN'T ALREADY IN CONCRETE, YOU KNOW, SO YEAH, I GUESS TO, TO SUMMARIZE, I, I JUST WOULD NOT WANT THE LANGUAGE TO REQUIRE SOMEONE TO DIG UP AND EXPOSE SOMETHING JUST TO PUT CONCRETE ON IT. NO, NO, NO. DIDN'T, THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE INTENT. NO, NOT, NOT NONE WHATSOEVER. OR REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT ADDITION. I COULD SEE THAT. BUT IF YOU'RE HAVING TO MOVE THE TRANSFORMER FOR WHATEVER REASON, AND ONLY A PORTION OF THAT RUN IS BEING REPLACED, NOT THE ENTIRE RUN, WE WOULDN'T WANT THAT TO BE DONE AT THAT KIND OF COST TO BE PUT ON THE CUSTOMER. BUT THE NEW RUN SHOULD BE IN ENC CASE, CORRECT. THE NEW PORTION, I SUPPOSE. [00:10:01] YEAH. BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE 'EM DIG UP THE WHOLE REST OF IT TO DO THAT. YEAH. WE DON'T WANNA IMPOSE ADDITIONAL COST BEYOND THAT. SO, SO, SO VALERIE, LET ME ASK YOU YES, SIR. A QUESTION. MM-HMM. WOULD THAT BE, WOULD YOU HAVE ANY REQUIREMENTS JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY FOR UNPAVED AREAS, WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT IF IT WAS UNPAVED VERSUS, VERSUS A, YOU KNOW, PARKING LOT? NO, THIS, THIS SECTION ACTUALLY WHEN IT WAS IN THERE APPLIED TO THE ENTIRE SERVICE LATERAL, THE PORTION, THE ONES THAT WE INSPECT, WHICH WOULD BE COMMERCIAL, AND THEN THE THREE PHASE APARTMENTS. SO WE DON'T INSPECT PAD MOUNTS, SINGLE PHASE APARTMENTS. WE DON'T LOOK AT THAT. SO, SO IN EFFECT, IT WOULD BE IN EFFECT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS TO SERVICES? YES, SIR. OKAY. SO CAN WE GET THAT ADDED TO THE END OF THAT PLEASE? AND THAT LAST SENTENCE INCLUDES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION? YEAH. I MEAN, IF YOU ARE INSTALLING SOMETHING THAT, THAT'S NEW CONSTRUCTION. MM-HMM. , DO YOU, ARE YOU PROPOSING ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE OR IS THAT, YEAH. IN OTHER WORDS, IF IT'S A BRAND NEW LINE, YOU HAVE TO DO IT LIKE THIS. AND IF YOU'RE ADDING TO AN EXISTING LINE, YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO IT FOR THE NEW ADDITIONS ONLY. SO I JUST THINK THE NEW CONSTRUCTION AND ADDITIONS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? OKAY. OKAY. SO THAT SHOULD CLOSE OUT TWO 30. AND NEXT WE'LL MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT HOT TOPIC, WHICH WAS A 2 51 20, WHICH, UH, WAS A PROPOSAL TO ADD, UH, A FOUR WIRE FEEDER WHEN REPLACING A, LIKE FOR LIKE INTERIOR PANEL. NOW I DO HAVE SOME CLARIFICATIONS AND SOME, UH, QUALIFICATIONS FOR THIS. AND I ALSO HAVE A FEW OTHER THINGS THAT LOOKED INTO, I FOUND IN RESEARCH. SORRY. SO WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING, UM, SHALL BE INSTALLED IN ACCORDANCE WITH 2 51, 20 A, B, AND C IN ONE TO TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS REPLACEMENT OF A PANEL THAT WILL REQUIRE A FEEDER TO INCLUDE A SEPARATE GROUNDING, INCLUDE SEPARATE GROUNDING AND GROUNDED CONDUCTORS, UNLESS THE TWO WIRE SYSTEM IS STILL IN PLACE. I FURTHER CLARIFIED THAT TO INCLUDE, OR IF THREE WIRE RECEPTACLES WERE INSTALLED IN COMPLIANCE WHEN 2 51 30 C OR 4 0 6 4D TWO B OR C, AND THAT'S WHERE THEY USE THE, UTILIZE THE GFCI PROTECTION FOR DOWNSTREAM RECEPTACLES. OR THEY ADD, WHEN THEY ADD A RECEPTACLE TO A TWO WIRE AND THEY TAKE AN EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR FROM THAT RECEPTACLE BACK TO ANY GROUNDING POINT ON THE SYSTEM. SO SOME OF THE LANGUAGE I ACTUALLY FOUND ONLINE, I ACTUALLY HAVE A 59 NEC, WHICH IS THE OLDEST ONE. I HAVE, SOME OF MY STAFF ACTUALLY FOUND SOME OLDER WHERE A THREE A FOUR WIRE A FEEDER WAS ACTUALLY REQUIRED AS FAR BACK AS I BELIEVE 1956, I THINK. YEAH. THAT'S THE OLDEST I FOUND. YEAH, 47 IS THE OLDEST I FOUND. OKAY. HE FOUND 47. NOW I DON'T, I TRIED TO GET THOSE BOOKS, BUT THEY'RE, THE ONES THAT ARE, UH, AVAILABLE ARE VERY EXPENSIVE. SO YEAH. VALERIE, ONE CONCERN I HAVE MM-HMM. . AND, AND I THINK WE JUST, IF, IF THEY'RE JUST REPLACING THE PANEL MM-HMM. AND THEY'RE NOT ADDING ANY SERVICE TO IT. MM-HMM. . MM-HMM. . I JUST THINK NO MATTER, LIKE EVEN IN AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY MM-HMM. . 'CAUSE YOU HAVE APARTMENTS THAT WERE BUILT BEFORE THAT. MM-HMM. , YOU SHOULD ALLOW IT IN EVERYWHERE BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE GOING TO BUY REFURBISHED BREAKERS. MM-HMM. AND, AND REALLY PUSHING THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHEN YOU GET THEM, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY STAMP 'EM AS UL CERTIFY. MM-HMM. , WE HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THEY'RE BEING MADE, WHAT'S GOING ON, OR IF THEY'RE NOT COUNTERFEIT. UNDERSTOOD. AND SO LAST CODE CYCLE WHERE WE ALLOW THE PANELS TO BE REPLACED LIKE IN A, IN CLOSETS, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN CORRECT. MM-HMM. REPLACING THE PANEL. MM-HMM. , I THINK THIS NEEDS TO APPLY ACROSS THE BOARD BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, IN AN OLDER APARTMENT COMMUNITY MM-HMM. WHERE YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE $50,000 TO RUN THE LINE ACROSS A BUILDING TO GET IT THAT EXTRA WIRE IN. AND SO I THINK HAVING NEW EQUIPMENT IS BETTER THAN HAVING MM-HMM. , YOU KNOW, AN OLD FUSE BOX OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO I WOULD JUST ASK THAT, UM, WE JUST TAKE [00:15:01] OUT THAT THE IN ONE, IN TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS AND JUST PUT REPLACEMENT OF PANEL WILL BE WHERE, WHERE IT WOULD APPLY TO APARTMENTS ALSO TO REPLACE THE FEEDER WHERE THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO REPLACE, ADD THE EXTRA WIRE UHHUH , IF ALL YOU'RE DOING IS REPLACING THE PANEL. CORRECT. WHICH IS YOU'RE NOT UPGRADING THE SYSTEM, YOU'RE NOT ADDING ANY PLUGS TO THE SYSTEM, YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN SWAPPING THE PANEL UP. SO IF THEY ADD PLUGS OR SOMETHING ELSE, THEN THIS IS MOOT AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO UPGRADE THE PANEL. WHICH IS KIND OF WHY I CLARIFIED THIS WITH THESE OTHER SECTIONS. 'CAUSE WE'VE RUN INTO A NUMBER OF OLDER HOMES WHERE SOMEBODY AT SOME TIME HAS GONE IN AND PUT THREE WIRE RECEPTACLES AND HASN'T COMPLIED WITH THESE OTHER REQUIREMENTS. SO THE CAVEAT OR THE REQUIREMENTS WOULD EITHER BE TAKE IT BACK TO A TWO WIRE RECEPTACLES, PUT THOSE BACK IN, OR REPLACE THE FEEDER. THAT'S WHY I, I ADDED THIS OTHER SECTION TO CLARIFY, BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY HOUSES OUT THERE THAT HAVE DONE THIS AND IT'S CREATING A HAZARD. NO, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT YOU ADDED. I MM-HMM. , I WOULD LIKE TO JUST TAKE OUT THAT IN ONE, IN TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. MM-HMM. WHERE, WHERE, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE JUST MAKING THE REPLACEMENT, LIKE FOR LIKE, AND ALL YOU'RE DOING IS REPLACING THE PANEL AND YOU STILL HAVE TWO WIRE PLUGS AND ALL THAT, THAT'S WHY IT, IT SAYS THE TWO WIRE IN THERE. OKAY. AND I, I KNOW, BUT IT, IT, IT QUALIFIES AT THE BEGINNING THAT THIS ONLY APPLIES TO ONE AND TWO THIN LEAD DWELLINGS. SO YOU WANT ME TO HAVE IT IF, IF THEY'VE ADDED THE THREE WIRE RECEPTACLES LEGALLY? NO, NO. I'M JUST WANTING THAT IT APPLY TO APARTMENTS, UHHUH, , MULTIFAMILY, ALSO ALL, ALL RESIDENTIAL UNITS. OKAY. SO IF THE THREE WIRE RECEPTACLES HAVE NOT BEEN REPLACED LEGALLY BY ONE OF THESE OTHER METHODS FOR ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS AND APARTMENTS, WE WANT THAT ADDED EQUIPMENT GROUNDING CONDUCTOR. IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE ASKING? YEAH. IN OTHER WORDS, I'M JUST ASKING THAT WE STRIKE IN ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. OKAY. SO I WAS TRYING TO TAKE BABY STEPS WITH THIS BECAUSE I REALIZED WHAT A COST THIS WOULD BE TO APARTMENT COMPLEXES, YOU KNOW, BUT, BUT THE WAY IT READS NOW, THE WAY IT READS NOW IS THAT IF AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY MM-HMM. . AND, AND YOU ABSENT THIS MODIFICATION, WHAT'S IN THE NEC RIGHT NOW? MM-HMM. IS, IF I SWAPPED OUT THE PANEL MM-HMM. . AND IT HAS ONLY, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE GROUND ALL THE WAY BACK AT THAT POINT, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SWAP OUT THE PANEL. YOU HAVE TO RUN THE GROUND ALL THE WAY BACK. CORRECT. IF YOU HAVE THREE WIRE RECEPTACLES THAT DON'T COMPLY WITH THESE OTHER SECTIONS, NO. READ, READ THE LAST PART. IT SAYS, UNLESS THE TWO WIRE SYSTEM IS STILL IN PLACE IN THE DWELLING. RIGHT. SO IF IT'S STILL A TWO WIRED, UH, SYSTEM, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE GROUND, THEN YEAH, YOU COULD SWAP IT. BUT IF SOMEBODY HAS GONE IN THERE AND DONE SOME ILLEGAL WORK AND THEN, YOU KNOW, GROUND THE RECEPTACLES AND MADE IT A THREE WIRE SYSTEM, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO EITHER FIX IT MM-HMM. BACK TO A TWO WIRE SYSTEM, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PULL THE GROUND OR RE RE-PULL THE FEEDER. IS, IS THAT THE WAY I'M READING? YES, SIR. UHHUH . BECAUSE THERE'S TWO METHODS OF REPLACING TWO WIRE RECEPTACLES AND STILL KEEPING THE FEEDER AS IT IS. SO THAT'S WHY IT ADDED THIS CAVEAT. AND AGAIN, I WAS TRYING TO TAKE BABY STEPS WITH THIS WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT LIKE APARTMENTS MAYBE NEXT TIME DOWN THE ROAD. BUT, SO ABSENT THIS WOULD AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY THAT HAS A TWO WIRE SYSTEM MM-HMM. BE ABLE TO REPLACE THE PANEL. MM-HMM. CURRENTLY WITHOUT HAVING TO GO, UH, UPGRADE THE GROUND ALL THE WAY BACK IF IT RETAINED ITS TWO WIRE RECEPTACLES. YES, SIR. OKAY. MM-HMM. . NOW DO YOU STILL WANT ME TO ADD THE APARTMENTS TO THIS OR NO, I'M, I'M FINE. I, MM-HMM. , I MEAN THE ONE THING THAT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT, BECAUSE THE UNDERLINE IS USUALLY SOMETHING YOU ARE ADDING MM-HMM. TO THE CODE. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THE CURRENT CODE LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE ADOPTING IN 2 51 20 MM-HMM. WHERE IT'S TALKING ABOUT I AM ASSUMING THE, THE A, B AND C IS WHAT'S THERE. AND I'M TRYING TO LOOK IT UP TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET IT INTO AN ISSUE WHERE THEY REPLACE A PANEL IN A REAL OLD PLACE OR A FEW, YOU KNOW, FUSES TO A BREAKER, WHICH IS [00:20:01] A GOOD THING. MM-HMM. , RIGHT. EXISTING BUILDING CODE, YOU HAVE AN EXISTING CONDITION. THEY RETAINED THE TWO WIRE RECEPTACLES, UH, OR COMPLIED WITH ONE OF THE METHODS TO REPLACE THE TWO WIRE WITH THREE WIRE, THEN WE'RE GOOD. WE'RE NOT ASKING IT TO BE REPLACED. OKAY. AND I'M GOOD. OKAY. ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THAT? I THINK OKAY. UH, LET'S SEE. FOUR 40.8 ON THE AC AND REFRIGERATION EQUIPMENT. DID WE RESOLVE THAT THE LAST TIME? I SHOW THAT ONE AS BEING TABLED ALSO. OKAY. YEAH. OH, DIDN'T WE OR SOMETHING? NO, WE DIDN'T. THE LANGUAGE. YEAH, I THINK YOU WERE JUST GONNA COME UP WITH SOME LANGUAGE. OH, THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. THAT'S SHOWN ON THE SCREEN THAT THE UNDERLYING PORTION, UNLESS FULLY CONCEALED ABOVE THE CEILING, UM, THAT WAS, THAT UNDERLYING LANGUAGE IS MM-HMM. WHAT WE ADDED, THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE UNITS THAT'S FULLY COVERED BY THE DOOR OR THE ACCESS PANEL. GOOD ENOUGH. OKAY. THANK YOU. I FORGOT. SO 4 45 POINT 18 A, UH, THIS WAS TALKING ABOUT THE DISCONNECTING MEANS FOR THE RESIDENTIAL GENERATORS. UM, WE DID DO SOME ADDITIONAL RESEARCH, UM, IN 4 45 POINT 19. IT WAS TALKING ABOUT AN EPO SHUTTING DOWN THE PRIME MOVER. ONE OF THE SITUATIONS, I THINK, AND I HAVE ONE OF MY INSPECTORS HERE, MR. MICHAEL BENNETT, SENIOR INSPECTOR MICHAEL BENNETT DEALS WITH A LOT OF GENERATORS AND SOLAR. HE DID TELL ME THAT KOHLER, WHICH IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT HAS AN INTERIOR DISCONNECTING MEANS, AND A LOCKED COVER, HAS A, UM, MEANS FOR ADDING AN EXTERIOR BATH. YES. THEY HAVE A REMOTE SWITCH, UH, KIT YEAH. THAT THEY SUPPLY. THANK YOU. BUT IT'S AVAILABLE. BUT THEY ALSO COULD JUST PUT A REGULAR BREAKER BOX OUTSIDE OF IT THAT HAS YES, SIR. THAT'S WHAT WE HAD SUGGESTED THE LAST TIME. A NON FUSED DISCONNECT, EPO. SO EITHER AN INTEGRATED, UH, SWITCH THAT'S READILY ACCESSIBLE MM-HMM. OR AN INDEPENDENT TOOL. YEAH. AND IF YOU'D SEE IT ON THE SCREEN, THIS IS THE, UH, KOHLER DESIGN WITH THE INTERIOR AND THE LOCKED COVER. AND THEN GENERAC HAS ONE ON THE OUTSIDE. I DIDN'T, I'M NOT, I KNOW OTHER BRANDS THAT ARE OUT THERE. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT. SO THAT'S WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT. GOOD MORNING. THIS IS CHRIS. QUICK QUESTION, SIR. IS THIS YES, SIR. STRICTLY FOR PERMANENT, PERMANENT, PERMANENT INSTALLED GENERATORS. YES, SIR. UH, HOW DOES A TRANSFER SWITCH? A LOT OF THESE COME WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSFER SWITCHES. YES. HOW IS THAT CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE DISCONNECT OR NOT? UH, DOESN'T SHUT OFF BECAUSE IF IT, WHEN THE DISCONNECT GOES THERE, IT DOESN'T COMPLETELY KILL POWER FROM THE GENERATOR. OKAY. IF YOU JUST SWITCH THE TRANSFER SWITCH, YOU'RE STILL GONNA HAVE POWER TO THE GENERATOR RUNNING INSIDE, INSIDE THE HOUSE. AND THIS IS FOR BENEFIT OF THE, OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. SO A DISCONNECT PRIOR TO THE TRANSFER? AFTER THE TRANSFER EXTERIOR? NO, SIR. IT WOULD BE AT THE GENERATOR. YES, SIR. UHHUH . AND AGAIN, THIS WOULD ONLY BE FOR THE ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. IT'S ONLY FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. THERE'S SIGNAGE REQUIRED. OKAY. I THINK SO. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CRYSTAL, SEND YOU A PICTURE OF IT, OF THE EXTERNAL SWITCH. OKAY. OKAY. SO QUICK QUESTION ON THIS. YES, SIR. UM, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALL GENERATORS, NOT JUST A RESIDENTIAL. WELL, THE, THE COMMERCIAL GENERATORS AND GENERATORS OVER A CERTAIN KBA ACTUALLY ALREADY HAVE THIS REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A REMOTE EMERGENCY DISCONNECT FOR COMMERCIAL. 'CAUSE I'VE HAD A FEW HOSPITALS BALKING OUT THE REMOTE DISCONNECT TOO. SO, SO THAT, THAT EPO BUTTON, UH, MEETS THAT REQUIREMENT. YES, SIR. UHHUH, IT SHUTS DOWN THE PRIME MOVER. SO I DON'T HAVE TO BUY A NO SIR. 2000 AMP BOX. PUT IT ON THE WALL. NO. OKAY. NO, THE, UH, THE ISSUE IS THE RESIDENTIAL THAT THE, THE CODE SAYS THE, UH, UM, EMERGENCY, UH, THERE NEEDS TO BE AN EMERGENCY SHUTDOWN MEANS THE EMERGENCY POWER OFF, UH, EXTERIOR OF THE HOUSE AND READILY [00:25:01] ACCESSIBLE. MICHAEL, WE NEED YOU TO USE THE MIC, PLEASE. OH, AM I ON PUSH? YOU GOTTA PASS THE BUTTON. PUSH AND HOLD. HOLD. OKAY. I, SORRY. OKAY. UM, SO THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT THE EMERGENCY POWER OFF BE, UM, EXTRA, UH, OUTSIDE THE HOUSE AND READILY ACCESSIBLE. READILY ACCESSIBLE IS IF IT'S, IF A COVER IS LOCKED, THAT'S OKAY. IF THE WHOEVER NEEDS IT HAS THE KEY AND AN EMERGENCY, THE FIREFIGHTERS ARE NOT GONNA HAVE THE KEY TO THAT COVER. SO THEREFORE, UH, THAT'S WHY WE REQUIRING THE SWITCH TO BE OUTSIDE OF THE UNIT AND NOT INSIDE THE UNIT WHERE THE LIDS LOCKED. SO GENERAC, UH, ONE OF THE MOST COMMON BRANDS ALREADY HAS A SWITCH ON THE OUTSIDE AS IS IN THE PICTURE. UM, KOHLER DOES NOT, BUT THEY DO MAKE AN ACCESSORY KIT FOR THAT PURPOSE. AND SO IT'S MY FAULT. AND SO THAT'S BASICALLY THE ONLY ISSUE ON RESIDENTIAL. IT'S MY FAULT. SO, UH, FOLLOW UP QUESTION. UH, FOR THE ELECTRICIANS, UH, HERE. SO A LITTLE MUSHROOM HEAD, EPO BUTTON, IT NEEDS TO BE LOCKABLE IN THE OPEN POSITION. ARE THOSE QUITE AVAILABLE? SO I CAN JUST BUY ONE, I CAN PUT A PADLOCK IN. WHAT YOU CAN DO IS YOU CAN GET THE, UH, TAMPER PROOF COVERS THAT GO OVER 'EM THAT ARE LOCKED. YEAH. THANK YOU. RIGHT. BUT THEY CAN'T, BUT THE SWITCH CAN'T BE LOCKED. I MEAN, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT YOU CAN'T, AND THIS APPLIES TO, YOU KNOW, ONE AND TWO, BUT YOU COULDN'T PUT IT IN A BOX THAT'S LOCKED BECAUSE IF YOU PUT IT IN A BOX THAT'S LOCKED, IT'S THE SAME THING AS HAVING IT INSIDE THE GENERATOR. OH, I'M SORRY. THE, UH, THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO ISSUES AND IT'S PRETTY MUCH, UH, PERTAINS TO COMMERCIAL, IS THERE, IS THE DISCONNECT. OKAY. I'M SORRY. THAT KILLS THE POWER FROM THE GENERATOR. AND THEN THERE'S A REQUIREMENT TO ACTUALLY SHUT THE GENERATOR DOWN. RESIDENTIAL, YOU HAVE THE REQUIREMENT TO, UH, SHUT THE, UH, GENERATOR DOWN THE EMERGENCY POWER OFF. SO IN THAT CASE, YOU JUST NEED A, UH, A SWITCH LOCATED OUTSIDE, READILY ACCESSIBLE COMMERCIAL. YEAH. YOU CAN USE THAT EPO SWITCH AS A DISCONNECT IF IT CAN BE LOCKED OFF. BUT RESIDENTIAL DOESN'T HAVE THAT REQUIREMENT TO MY UNDERSTANDING. SO CAN SOMEBODY JUST CLARIFY, AND THE ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW FOR RESIDENTIAL, IT'S NOT TO SHUT THE GENERATOR OFF, IT'S TO CUT THE POWER BETWEEN THE GENERATOR AND THE HOUSE, CORRECT? NO, THE ACTUAL, WHAT WE'RE UH, DISCUSSING IS THE, UH, ACTUALLY TO SHUT THE GENERATOR OFF, WHICH IS A CODE REQUIREMENT IN 7 0 2, 7 OR FIVE, WE'RE DISCUSSING 44 4 4 5 18 A RIGHT? CORRECT. AND, AND IT DOESN'T TALK ABOUT SHUTTING IT OFF, IT'S JUST TALKING ABOUT HAVING A DISCONNECTION MEANS THAT IT TAKES THE GENERATOR AND CUTS THE POWER GOING FROM THE GENERATOR TO THE HOUSE SO THAT IT'S SAFE AND THERE'S NOT POWER. IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT SHUTTING THE GENERATOR OFF. CORRECT. DISCONNECTING MEANS MEANS A, IF, IF YOU READ FURTHER, UH, FOUR 50, UH, 4 45 19 SAYS THAT THAT EPO BUTTON WOULD MEET THE REQUIREMENTS AT 4 5 4 45 18. SO THAT'S WHERE THAT CONVERSATION LED FROM THE EPO BUTTON BEING LOCKED IN THE OPEN POSITION SO THE FIRE SAFETY GUYS CAN PUT THEIR PADLOCK ON IT, MAKE SURE IT'S NOT GONNA RUN. THAT WOULD BE, UH, 4 45 POINT 19 A THAT TALKS ABOUT THE EPO SHUTTING DOWN THE PRIME MOVER. UH, SO THE OTHER THING THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WITH THE, THE EPO IS WHEN YOU LOOK AT 4, 4, 5 19 A TWO MM-HMM. THAT IF YOU INITIATE A SHUTDOWN, IT REQUIRES A MECHANICAL RESET. SO HAVING AN OLD WALKABLE EPO IS NOT, IS NOT NEEDED. MM-HMM. . YEAH. SO ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT ON 4 4 5 18 A [00:30:01] IS, UM, ELIMINATING THE NEW LANGUAGE THAT WAS ADDED TO THE 23 AND SIMPLY RETAINING THE LANGUAGE THAT WE HAD PREVIOUSLY. MM-HMM. . SO WE'RE GOOD WITH THIS THEN, OR, OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. FIVE 17.6. UH, WHICH WOULD BE RECONDITIONED EQUIPMENT NOT APPLYING TO PATIENT CARE ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT. UM, MARK ROSS I THINK HAD RAISED A CONCERN ABOUT INTERIM BEING ABLE TO USE THE RECONDITIONED EQUIPMENT ON AN INTERIM OR PARTIAL BASIS UNTIL THE, UH, EQUIPMENT, THE ACTUAL REPAIR EQUIPMENT OR REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT COULD BE ACHIEVED AND INSTALLED. SO WE COULD ADD A, A PORTION TO THAT AMENDMENT OR ADD AN AMENDMENT THAT SAYS THAT, UH, THE RECONDITION EQUIPMENT COULD BE USED. FIVE 17.6 COULD BE USED, UH, ON A TEMPORARY BASIS. IS THAT, YEAH. I MEAN, BECAUSE IN THE EMERGENCY WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T GET STUFF AND NOTHING MM-HMM. , I THINK YOU JUST NEED HAVING HOSPITALS OPEN RIGHT. IS MORE IMPORTANT. RIGHT. BUT I THINK ALSO MAYBE, YOU KNOW, I'M GOOD WITH THIS LANGUAGE IF YOU ALL ARE GOOD WITH IT, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU MAY WANT TO PUT A TIMEFRAME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. MM-HMM. , YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, SO THAT IT'S NOT, YOU GET SOMEBODY THAT'S NEVER ENDING. IT'S ON ORDER, BUT IT'S NOT. YEAH. WELL, SO I MEAN, BUT I DON'T, I'M, I'M GOOD IF YOU'RE GOOD, I THINK WE COULD LEAVE IT BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A CASE BY CASE. I KNOW WHAT THE LEAD TIME ON SOME SWITCH GEARS, SWITCHBOARDS AND SOME OVER CURRENT DEVICES IS RIGHT NOW. IT'S RIDICULOUS. SO I LIKE THIS LANGUAGE. UH, IT ALLOWS ROOM FOR JUDGMENT OF MM-HMM. , EVERYBODY INVOLVED, WHICH IS GOOD. CORRECT? CORRECT. AND, AND JUST TO NOTE, TEMPORARY EQUIPMENT IS A DEFINED TERM, UM, IN THE NEC, UH, WHICH IS STILL A LITTLE BROAD, BUT IT JUST SAYS THAT THE, UM, PRESUMED TO BE REMOVED AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE EVENT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. . SO SIX 90.31 B ONE ABOUT THE CONDUCTORS OF DIF DIFFERENT SYSTEMS IN, UM, PV WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DELETING EXCEPTIONS ONE AND THREE, BUT I THINK THAT BECAUSE THE INSULATION RATING OF ALL THE WIRING IN THERE HAS TO BE THE MAXIMUM VOLTAGE IN THE, THAT'S IN THE ENCLOSURE, I THINK WE WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT. SO WE MAY NOT REALLY NEED TO REMOVE THAT. WAS THAT CORRECT, JOHN? YES. WE'RE, WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU GUYS. YEAH. DON'T REMOVE WHAT, WE WON'T NEED TO REMOVE THOSE, THOSE TWO EXCEPTIONS. SO WE DON'T NEED THIS AMEND. NO, SIR. NO MA'AM. I'M, SO YOU'RE SAYING NO CHANGES TO THE NEC ON THAT ONE? THAT'S CORRECT. LONG MM-HMM. . YEAH. THE EXCEPTION IS WHERE ALL CONDUCTORS OR CABLES HAVE AN INSTALLATION RATING EQUAL TO AT LEAST THE MAXIMUM CIRCUIT VOLTAGE APPLIED TO ANY CONDUCTOR WITHIN THE SAME WIRING METHOD. SO IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING LESS THAN THAT, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT ANYWAY. SO. OKAY. AND 7 0 1 0.4 D. UM, I WAS WAITING FOR, WE'RE GONNA STEP BACK TO, UM, COMMENT BY CPS ENERGY FOR PARALLEL OPERATION. [00:35:12] IT WASN'T ON THERE, I APOLOGIZE. UH, IT WAS JUST RAISING THAT QUESTION. UM, FOR LEGALLY REQUIRED STANDBY SYSTEMS, THE PARALLEL OPERATION. YEAH. PARDON? WERE WE GOOD ON THAT? DID YOU NEED TO MAKE ANYTHING ON THAT? WELL, I THINK WE WERE JUST, AND I, MAYBE IT WAS AGREED UPON MM-HMM. , BUT IT WAS JUST THE FACT THAT, UM, THAT IT WOULD REQUIRE UTILITY APPROVAL TO, TO PARALLEL DURING AN, I MEAN, IN, IN THE EVENT OF AN OUTAGE. DID YOU WANNA PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT THAT WE SPECIFY THAT IN THE EVENT OF AN OUTAGE? I, I BELIEVE THAT'S COVERED IN THE CP SRES. YES. YES. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE GETS, GETS CONFUSED BY, YOU KNOW, SEEING A, A TYPE OF LANGUAGE HERE AND THINKS, OH, OKAY, WE'RE JUST GONNA DO IT WITHOUT STILL RUNNING THROUGH THE UTILITY FOR, FOR, YOU KNOW, OUR REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF, OF HOW THEY'RE GOING TO INTERCONNECT AND PARALLEL DURING THEN WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO JUST SIMPLY ADD A NOTE TO REFER TO THE CPS REGULATIONS? WE COULD. YEAH. THAT WOULD BE, WELL, I MEAN, WE ENFORCE, WE ENFORCE THE STANDARDS ANYWAY. SO WOULD THAT BE SUFFICIENT OR WOULD WE NEED TO, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S JUST, IF IT'S THERE AS AN AMENDMENT, IT MAKES IT EASIER TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE TO OKAY. A NON PERSON WHO'S COMING FROM OUT TOWN KNOW WHERE TO GO WORK. THAT'S EXACTLY WHERE I'M, SO CAN YOU GET THE EXACT PLACE WITHIN THE CPS REGULATIONS WHERE THAT IS? SO WE CAN JUST PUT C WHATEVER SECTION OF THE REGULATIONS. YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN GO BACK AND GRAB, GRAB WHERE ALL THOSE DOCUMENTS WOULD BE LOCATED DOING THIS. ARE WE DOING THIS NOW? ? YEAH. WE CAN ENTER A SECTION LIKE THAT AND THEN JUST INCLUDE THE REFERENCE TO CPS. IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? OKAY. ALRIGHT. CRYSTAL NEEDED TYPING IN REFERENCE. I KNOW. OKAY. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. . SO 7 0 5 POINT 50, UH, SAID IT WAS TABLED AND WAITING FOR CPS ENERGY INPUT. UM, YOU HAVE A, THE COPY THAT I GAVE YOU OF THIS. YES. SO, SO AGAIN HERE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON, ON THE EVENT OF A, OF AN OUTAGE, A UTILITY OUTAGE TO BE ALLOWED TO, TO DISCONNECT FROM OTHER SOURCES OF POWER. THIS IS TO INCLUDE DISCONNECTION FROM YOU IS ONLY ACCEPTABLE DURING THE UTILITY. YEAH. 7 0 5 15. YEAH. OKAY. THAT'S ME. OKAY. MM-HMM. ANY QUESTION OR COMMENTS ON THAT? OKAY. SO WHY IS IT IN, WHY DO YOU CARE IF IT'S ONLY IN POWER OUTAGES? IF, BECAUSE I, I'M ASSUMING YOU DON'T WANT SOMEBODY MAKING THEIR OWN POWER. SO, SO IN OUR, IN OUR RATES AND TARIFFS RIGHT? WE HAVE A LOT OF LANGUAGE STIPULATING THAT RIGHT? FOR, FOR THE USE OF BACKUP GENERATION AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. UM, THIS KIND OF FALLS ALONG IN THAT SAME CATEGORY. ADDITIONALLY, YOU KNOW, CPS IS A, IS A NOE, YOU KNOW, SAN ANTONIO AND, AND OUR CPS SERVICE TERRITORY IS A NOE, UH, AREA, RIGHT? SO IT'S A NON OPT-IN, UH, FOR COMPETITIVE MARKETS. SO WHAT DIFFERENCE IS THE MICROGRID IN PUTTING IN, UH, LIKE SOLAR IN PRODUCING YOUR OWN POWER? SO, SO WHEN THEY DO THAT, RIGHT, THAT IS, THAT IS IN, IN PART OF OUR PROGRAMMING WITH OUR, AGAIN, PART OF THE COMPLICATION WITH THIS, RIGHT? WE ALSO HAVE NET METERING, SO WE ALLOW FOR THAT PARALLEL TO TAKE PLACE. BUT MICRO GRIDDING AND ISLANDING IS SPECIFIC TO DETACHING FROM THE UTILITY SOURCE THAT WOULD FURTHER ISSUE OTHER COMPETITIVE COMPLICATIONS. WE COULD PROBABLY HAVE TO GO THROUGH LEGAL IF, IF SOMETHING THAT LIKE THAT WAS TO, TO, IF YOU WANTED TO ADOPT THAT DURING OUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE POWER TO OUR CUSTOMERS. SO, HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION MRS. LON. SO SUPPOSING, [00:40:01] UH, THE EXTENSION OF THE CPS POWER IS COST PROHIBITIVE FROM THE OWNER'S PERSPECTIVE ON A PROPERTY BUILDS A LITTLE MICROGRID. CAN YOU DO THAT? SO I, I WOULD SAY AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO. RIGHT? I MEAN, 'CAUSE AGAIN, WE ARE, WE ARE THE, THE PROVIDERS WE ARE, WE ARE ESTABLISHED TO PROVIDE ALL POWER TO ALL OUR CUSTOMERS. AND THIS WOULD BE BASICALLY IN BETWEEN OUR CUSTOMERS, RIGHT? SO IT IS NOT A SAFETY ISSUE, IT'S A MONEY ISSUE BOTH, RIGHT? I MEAN, AGAIN, WE HAVE TO ALSO COMMISSION, RIGHT? THAT DOESN'T MM-HMM. THAT DOESN'T NEGATE ANY ISSUES THAT WE DO HAVE. AND, AND AGAIN, WE, WE DO THIS ALL THE TIME WITH COMMISSIONING SYSTEMS, RIGHT? TO ALLOW FOR PARALLEL, UM, UNDER OUR NET METERING PROGRAM. UM, BUT TO ISOLATE 100% FROM THE UTILITY, UM, THAT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC. SO IF SOME, SOMEBODY WANTED TO HAVE A SOLAR ARRAY AND BATTERY STORAGE AND NOT HAVE ANY CPS LINES TO THEIR PROPERTY AT ALL, THAT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED. I THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN UP WITH LEGAL AND, AND PER THIS, UH, WHAT THE LANGUAGE SAYS IT, IT'S, IT WOULDN'T BE INTERCONNECTED. SO THIS MM-HMM. PARAGRAPH WOULDN'T APPLY TO IT. MM-HMM. , CORRECT? YEAH. YEAH. BASICALLY DISCONNECTING FROM OTHER SOURCES IS THE, IS THE ISSUE, RIGHT? MM-HMM. . SO ARE WE GOOD WITH THAT? YEAH. THANK YOU FOR THE DISCUSSION. IT'S HELPFUL. MM-HMM. WHAT LANGUAGE DO WE NEED TO PUT IN THERE, JOHN, IF ANY? WELL, I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IF WE'RE JUST STATING THAT IT'S DURING A, YOU KNOW, CAN BE ALLOWED TO BE DISCONNECTED DURING A, DURING A UTILITY OUTAGE AND THAT THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH GENERATION OR ANY OTHER MATTER WITHIN OUR RATES AND TARIFFS. OKAY? OKAY. BUT THIS, THE CODE WOULD NOT PROHIBIT THE MICROGRID STANDALONE ON ITS OWN. THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT AREA THAT SOMEBODY WOULD'VE TO GET INTO OTHER THAN THE CODE, THE CODE'S NOT PROHIBITING MIGHT ENTER MICROGRID TO BE ISLAND ONLY. IT'S JUST SAYING IF IT'S INTERCONNECTED, IT CAN ONLY BE USED AS AN ISLAND WHEN THE POWER OUT. I THINK, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GETTING INTO SOME LEGAL ASPECTS OF A, OF OUR NO E TERRITORY IN THE WAY WE'RE STRUCTURED. YEAH. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO BE SENSITIVE TO IS WHEN YOU, UH, LOOK AT THE DEFINITIONS FOR MICROGRID STATES, AN ELECTRICAL POWER SYSTEM CAPABLE OF OPERATING AN ISLAND MODE AND CAPABLE OF BEING INTERCONNECTED TO AN ELECTRICAL POWER PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION NETWORK QUALIFIES. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO ANY OTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT ONE? QUESTIONS? OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, MOVING ON TO, UH, CHAPTER TEN SEVEN. OH 6.7. I WAS TALKING ABOUT ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS SHALL BE COMMISSIONED UPON INSTALLATION. UH, CPS WANTED TO BE ABLE TO STRIKE THE SECTION THAT SAYS EXCEPT FOR ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. THEN WE WOULD THEN ADD THIS OTHER SECTION THAT SAY, THAT SAYS, THE COMMISSIONING OF ONE IN TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS FOR ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS SHALL ONLY BE BY CPS ENERGY NOT ASKING FOR ANY OTHER OUTSIDE COMMISSIONING. SO YOU COMMISSION EVERYTHING. CORRECT. SO MY SUGGESTION IS, IS YOU JUST STRIKE OUT EVERYTHING THAT SAYS ESS SHALL BE PERMISSION UPON INSTALLATION BY CITY PUBLIC SERVICE PERIOD, SIR. AND I THINK WE'RE GETTING BACK TO THAT SAME ISSUE OF, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE, ANY CONFUSION WITH, YOU KNOW, COASTA INSPECTORS NOT BEING REQUIRED TO COMMISSION TEST OR WITNESS TEST ANY EQUIPMENT VERSUS OUR COMMISSIONING ABILITY TO, TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT DURING THE INTERCONNECTION PROCESS THAT IT ISOLATES PROPERLY AND EVERYTHING ELSE TO, TO, TO MEET WITH IEEE. WE SUPPORT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SO, BUT I'M JUST SUGGESTING AN EASIER LANGUAGE IS TO SAY ESS SHALL BE COMMISSIONED UPON INSTALLATION BY CPS [00:45:01] PERIOD. THAT'S HOW WE HAD, AND IT, IT APPLIES TO EVERYTHING NOT BECAUSE THE WAY THIS READS NOW, IS IT, BY ADDING THE SENTENCE, THE WAY YOU'VE ADDED IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE THE ONLY SYSTEMS THAT'S GONNA BE COMMISSIONED BY CPS IS ONE IN TWO FAMILY DWELLS. I AGREE WITH THAT. I I LIKE THE LANGUAGE, UH, THAT'S IN THERE BECAUSE, UH, THERE ARE OTHER REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMISSIONING THAT DON'T INVOLVE CPS THAT INVOLVE THE ENGINEER, CONTRACTOR AND OWNER AND THE NDC PANEL. PUT THAT IN THERE FOR GOOD REASON. MM-HMM. . I, I JUST DID NOT WANT THAT TO GO TO THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS AND CREATE THAT BURDEN ON MM-HMM. A HOMEOWNER AND A THOSE CONTRACTORS. SO I AGREE WITH CPS LOOKING AT IT, BUT I WOULD NOT STRIKE THE OTHER LANGUAGE. I WOULD LEAVE THAT IN THERE. THAT'S, THIS IS LON. OKAY. THAT'S FINE. MM-HMM. AND, AND CRYSTAL? I WOULD SAY CPS ENERGY. YOU'RE GONNA REFERENCE CPS? YES. GOOD. MM-HMM. . ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? SEVEN. OKAY. ALRIGHT, SO I THINK THAT WAS EVERYTHING. JOHN, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? DID Y'ALL HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY. ALRIGHT. I DON'T THINK THOSE WERE, IT. SO ARTICLE 7 22 WAS WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST TIME, CORRECT? YES. OKAY. UM, SO, BUT WE'RE BACK TO NOT DISCUSSING CHANGES. NOT TABLE THAT. YEAH. SO, OKAY. SO ARTICLE 7 22, UH, CABLES FOR POWER LIMITED CIRCUITS FAULT MANAGED POWER CIRCUITS IS A NEW ARTICLE WIRING DEALS WITH WIRING METHOD METHODS FOR POWER LIMITED CIRCUITS AND FAULT MANAGED POWER CIRCUITS. ARTICLE 7 24 DEALS WITH CLASS ONE POWER LIMITED CIRCUITS AND REMOTE CONTROL AND SIGNALING CIRCUITS. ANOTHER NEW ARTICLE, ARTICLE 7 26 DEALS WITH CLASS FOUR FAULT MANAGED POWER SYSTEMS. UH, IT'S FAIRLY NEW TECHNOLOGY, UH, TRANSMITS SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNTS OF POWER OVER NON-POWER WIRING. AGAIN, ANOTHER NEW ARTICLE. OKAY, I REALIZE I WAS ABOUT SEVEN 60.1. UH, INSTALLATION OF FIRE ALARM. FIRE ALARM CIRCUIT SHALL COMPLY WITH 300 POINT 21. UH, NEW LOCATION. SPECIFYING THAT FIRE ALARM CIRCUITS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE WIRING METHODS REQUIRED FOR HAZARDOUS LOCATIONS. UH, BEAR IN MIND THAT AS, UM, ELECTRICAL INSPECTORS, WE TYPICALLY DON'T LOOK AT THE FIRE ALARM SECTION. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DOES, BUT WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT Y'ALL WERE AWARE OF THIS TOO. SO BASICALLY IF IT GOES TO A HAZARDOUS DEAL OR WHATEVER THE REQUIREMENTS FOR HAZARDOUS THAT'S CORRECT, SIR, WOULD APPLY TO THE WIRING FOR THE FIRE SYSTEM? THAT'S CORRECT. MARK UHHUH 800.1 79. COMMUNICATION WIRES AND CABLES, COMMUNITY ANTENNA TV CABLES, NETWORK POWER BROADBAND CABLES SHALL BE LISTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH 800.179 A THROUGH L. CHAPTER NINE, TABLE 13. UH, IT'S AN EXPANDED TABLE THAT DEALS WITH EQUIPMENT SUITABLE FOR CLASSIFIED HAZARDOUS LOCATIONS. SO GOING BACK TO THE BROADBAND BECAUSE THAT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE COMMON ALL OVER. MM-HMM. THIS. SO IF YOU HAVE LIKE WIFI THROUGHOUT YOUR BUILDING, IT'S SAYING IT HAS TO, THE NEW INSTALLATION HAS TO COMPLY WITH THIS 801 79, THE COMMUNICATION CABLES. CAN WE JUST GO TO SEE THAT SIR? ONE 70? YEAH, IT'S RIGHT AFTER. BEFORE THE TABLES. RIGHT AFTER, YEAH. RIGHT AFTER. YEAH. WHERE IT'S SAYING THAT SOME OF THAT STUFF HAS TO GO IN RACEWAYS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. WHAT HAPPENS IF IT'S AN EXISTING BUILDING AND YOU'RE PUTTING IT IN, BUT IT'S A NEW INSTALLATION, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT STUFF. WELL, THE NEW INSTALLATION WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE CURRENT CODE. [00:50:28] ARE THEY DOING THIS FOR SAFE? SAFE? CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE SAFE, WHAT THE HAZARD IS WITH THIS STUFF? I THINK IT'S MORE FOR PROTECTION FOR FIRE. UM, THE LISTING OF EQUIPMENT AND WHERE THAT CAN BE INSTALLED OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CABLES. AS YOU CAN SEE, A IS PLENUM CABLES THEN, UH, THEY GO TO RISER CABLES. THERE WERE CHANGES MADE THERE. THOSE WERE ALREADY IN THERE. AND SO RIGHT NOW, MM-HMM, , IF YOU WANT TO PUT IN WIFI IN A BUILDING, YOU, I MEAN NOBODY PULLS A PERMIT FOR THAT, CORRECT? NO SIR. UHUH, UH, UNDER 50 VOLTS, CORRECT? I'M SORRY. YES. SO THIS WOULD NOT APPLY TO ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE. AND BELOW 50 VOLTS AND BELOW IT WOULD STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE ARTICLE. UM, BUT PERMITS ARE NOT REQUIRED IF IT IS 50 VOLTS AND BELOW FOR COMMUNICATIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. THE COMMUNICATION SECTION, PRETTY MUCH THE THING THAT WE LOOK AT IS THE GROUNDING, THE ATTACHMENT TO THE GROUNDING ELECTRODE SYSTEM. THE FACT THAT IT NEEDS TO GO ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE GROUNDING ELECTRODE SYSTEM AND NOT STOP AT A GROUND BUS IN A PANEL OR SOMETHING. SO, OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? OKAY, SO INFORMATIVE ANNEX A, WHICH AGAIN, IS NOT, UH, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE ENFORCED, BUT, UH, IT'S PRODUCT SAFETY STANDARDS EXISTING ANNEX A, IT WAS REVISED TO REFLECT CURRENT SAFETY STANDARDS. ANNEX E IS FIRE RESISTIVE CONSTRUCTION TYPES, UH, WAS REVISED TO INCLUDE THE HEAVY TIMBER. AND THEN WE MOVE ON TO A SECTION IN THE CHAPTER 10 LICENSING SECTION. AND IT'S JUST A, A CLARIFICATION OR CHANGING, OR A LITTLE BIT CLARIFICATION, THE WORDING TO MEET DEFINITIONS. SO WHAT WE WANTED TO ADD TO THE JOURNEYMAN ELECTRICIAN OR JOURNEYMAN SIGN ELECTRICIAN WAS PROVIDE DIRECT ON SITE SUPERVISION OF THE REQUIRED OR THE ALLOWABLE NUMBER OF APPRENTICES. AND THE SAME FOR THE RESIDENTIAL WIREMEN. BASICALLY IT WAS REWARDED TO INCLUDE THE ONSITE. AND ONSITE IS A DEFINITION IN THE CHAPTER 10. SO THIS WAS ALREADY IN THERE, THE RATIO AS WELL AS THE DIRECT SUPERVISION. WE JUST ADDED THE ONSITE. AND I THOUGHT Y'ALL RECEIVED BIG PUSHBACK ON THAT FROM SOME OF THOSE YEAH, SOME OF THEM BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY COULD SUPERVISE BY ELECTRONIC MEANS OR SOMETHING ELSE LIKE THAT, CORRECT? NO, NOT YET. WE DISCUSSED THAT ONE DURING THE, UH, PLUMBING. PLUMBING. MM-HMM. . YEAH. SO WHAT DID, DID, DID, IS THIS LANGUAGE MIRRORING WHAT WE SAID IN THE PLUMBING? UM, IT, UH, A LITTLE BIT, UH, BECAUSE THE, THE STATE PLUMBING BOARD WAS PROPOSING TO ALLOW THE, UM, VIDEO INSPECTION OR V VIDEO SUPERVISION. BUT, SO IF IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE PLUMBERS, WHY ISN'T IT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE ELECTRICIANS? T-D-R-T-T-D-L-R MANAGES THE ELECTRICIANS. THAT VERBIAGE IS NOT IN THERE YET. UM, AS AN LICENSED, LICENSED MASTER ELECTRICIAN WHO STARTED THE TRADE IN 1981, I LEARNED THE TRADE BY BEING DIRECTLY TAUGHT, DIRECTLY SUPERVISED. AND IN MY, MY PERSONAL OPINION FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, AND, AND MY STAFF AS AN APPRENTICE, YOU DON'T LEARN IF YOU'RE BEING SUPERVISED BY BEING, YOU KNOW, SUPERVISED BY A TELEPHONE OR, HEY, DID I DO THIS RIGHT, KIND OF THING AS EVIDENCE SOMETIMES BY EVEN RVI INSPECTIONS THAT WE KEEP THOSE LIMITED TO CERTAIN TYPES OF INSPECTIONS BECAUSE THINGS CAN BE NOT SHOWN OR MISLEADING ON PURPOSE. SO HAVE Y'ALL DONE OUTREACH TO BOTH THE, UH, I GUESS THERE'S A UNION, UH MM-HMM. , UH, TRADE ASSOCIATION AS WELL AS THE, THE IEC, UH, IEC TO GET COMMENT BACK THAT THEY'RE OKAY OR THEY KNOW ABOUT THIS? THIS WAS ALREADY IN THERE. NO, ON ONSITE WAS [00:55:01] NOT RIGHT. THE ONLY WORD THE DEFINITION WAS IN THERE, ALL WE DID WAS ADD IT TO REFERENCE. WE, IT WAS, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DIRECT SUPERVISION. NOW DIRECT, BUT DIRECT SUPERVISION DOESN'T NEED TO NECESSARILY BE ON SITE. AND SO I JUST THINK BEFORE WE GET INTO SOMETHING BIG TIME THAT YOU DO, I, I BELIEVE THAT'S DEFINITION BELIEVE OUTREACH TO THE EFFECTIVE INDUSTRIES. SO I WOULD LIKE, CAN I PAUSE ONE SECOND. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF, AND ARTICLE ONE? WE COULD HEAR A LITTLE BIT TOO FROM, UH, THOSE, THOSE FOLKS RIGHT HERE SITTING AT THE TABLE. THE, THE PROBLEMS I'VE SEEN ON INSTALLATIONS THAT OFTEN WITH, WITH A REALLY POOR WORKSMANSHIP OR JUST STUFF THAT'S ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE COMES FROM NOBODY OUT THERE RUNNING IT AND A BUNCH OF HELPERS AND, AND NOT, DOESN'T HAPPEN TOO OFTEN, BUT, WELL, YOU WANT SOMEONE OUT THERE. WELL, PROBABLY MORE FROM YOUR POINT, YEAH. YOU WANT SOMEONE OUT THERE THAT KNOWS THAT'S RESPONSIBLE. THAT'S CORRECT. AS THE ENGINEER, I WOULD, I WOULD SUPPORT IT. I, UM, I STARTED WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AS AN ELECTRICAL INSPECTOR IN 1995. UM, AND AFTER 21 YEARS IN PLAN REVIEW, OBVIOUSLY CAME BACK TO INSPECTIONS AND WAS APPALLED AT SOME OF THE LEVEL OF WORK THAT I SEE NOW. YOU KNOW, NOT ALL THE TIME, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD WORK GOING ON OUT THERE, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF BAD WORK AND THERE'S A LOT MORE BAD INSTALLATIONS OR POOR INSTALLATIONS THAN USED TO BE. SO, AND IT'S OBVIOUSLY BY UNLICENSED PEOPLE, WHICH WE'RE TRYING TO BLOCK AS MUCH AS WE CAN. UM, MY GUYS ARE GOING OUT THERE, THEY'RE CHECKING LICENSES. I WAS OUT ON A, UM, ON A JOB SITE ONE TIME IN A HOTEL, UH, TO MEET THE OWNER ON A COURTESY SITUATION. THEY HAD A DISAGREEMENT WITH INSPECTOR'S CALL AND A GUY WALKED UP AND STARTED PULLING THE COVER OFF THE PANEL IN THE HALLWAY ACROSS FROM ME. AND I JUST ASKED HIM FOR HIS LICENSE AND HE HANDED ME AN APPRENTICE CARD. NO JOURNEYMAN ON THE SITE. NOW I DIDN'T SHUT HIM DOWN OR CITE HIM 'CAUSE HE HADN'T REALLY STARTED WORKING. BUT NOBODY OUT THERE ON THIS HUGE FOUR STORY HOTEL, NO. UM, WE HAVE HAD ARGUMENTS, UH, FROM SOME CONTRACTORS, HEY, MY, MY APPRENTICES CAN WORK CIRCLES AROUND SOME OF THE JOURNEYMEN AND TO ME, WHY NOT ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET THEIR LICENSE? UH, WHAT I DID WANNA DO WAS GO TO THIS DEFINITION OF ONSITE, WHICH IS WAS IN THERE LAST YEAR, UH, PERTAINS TO THE DEFINITIONS OF ELECTRICAL APPRENTICE AND ELECTRICAL SIGN APPRENTICE. IN THIS ARTICLE, WHEN REFERENCING ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS, IT MEANS RESIDENTIAL LOTS THAT ABUT EACH OTHER WHEN REFERENCING MULTI-FAMILY DWELLINGS, COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL STRUCTURES OR FACILITIES. IT MEANS WITHIN THE STRUCTURE OR ON THE PREMISES. NO, BUT THAT DEFINITION WOULDN'T HAVE APPLIED TO THAT SECTION BECAUSE IT JUST SAYS SUPERVISION. NO, THAT WAS THE INTENT OF ADDING THAT DEFINITION. I'M JUST ASKING THAT YOU, YOU, BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN WE GET TO THE BIG BOARD, THAT, THAT YOU CONTACT BOTH OF THE AFFECTED TRADE ASSOCIATIONS. I'LL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. TELL 'EM WHAT THE PROPOSAL IS AND JUST MM-HMM, THAT THIS IS WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED BECAUSE I JUST THINK IT, IT WILL MAKE IT EASIER. YOU KNOW, THEY MAY SAY GREAT, AND I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT. . I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD IDEA. MM-HMM. . BUT I JUST THINK BEFORE YOU, YOU REGULATE SOMEONE, YOU GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT CERTAINLY. AND THEY MAY NOT HAVE EVEN KNOWN THAT THIS WAS IN THERE. AND IF THEY'RE GONNA RAISE THIS THING, I WOULD RATHER KNOW ABOUT IT EARLY IN THE PROCESS. UNDERSTOOD. I'LL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT. WELL, I, I CAN TELL YOU FROM ORGANIZED LABOR PERSPECTIVE, THERE'S ALREADY RATIOS IN PLACE. YEAH. MM-HMM. . YEAH. QUICK QUESTION, UH, TWO QUESTIONS HERE FROM CHRIS. IS THE DEFINITION OF SUPERVISION AND DURATION OF SUPERVISION, IS IT GETTING THEM GOING, LAYING 'EM OUT VERSUS THEY MUST STAY THERE THE WHOLE ENTIRE TIME? THAT IS THAT TO FIND SOMEWHERE THE INTENT IS MEANT THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE JOB SITE. OKAY. AND IF THAT IS THE INTENT, IS THE SUPERVISOR ALSO ALLOWED TO DO WORK? YES. OR IS HE ONLY SUPERVISING UP TO A CERTAIN LIMIT? NO. IS A JOURNEYMAN. UM, I MEAN CERTAINLY THEY'RE NOT GONNA PAY A JOURNEYMAN TO JUST SIT AND WATCH THE OTHER GUYS. THEY WOULD EXPECT THAT PERSON TO WORK. YOU HAVE TO, YES. SO THERE'S NO LIMITATIONS OF IF THERE'S 15 GUYS YOU CAN ONLY SUPERVISE. IF WE HAD, IF YOU HAVE A JOURNEYMAN OUT THERE AND THERE WERE 15 APPRENTICES, THEY WOULD NEED TWO JOURNEYMEN. GOTCHA. YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT CHANGES. OKAY. UH, NO, ACTUALLY THAT DID NOT CHANGE. THAT WAS IN THERE. YEAH. I'M SORRY. IT'S UHHUH, THE SUPERVISOR, EXPONENTIAL RATIO CHANGES, [01:00:02] LIKE BASED ON EXISTING LANGUAGE. MORE PEOPLE, MORE SUPERVISORS. YES, SIR. UHHUH WAS, THAT WAS, WAS IN THERE FROM THE LAST TIME. SO, OKAY. I AM SORRY. WE ALSO HAD A SECTION FROM THE CPS ENERGY STANDARDS THAT THEY HAVE ASKED THAT WE CONSIDER MOVING INTO OUR CHAPTER 10. APPARENTLY AT ONE TIME IT WAS IN THE CHAPTER 10. I, I DON'T RECALL AND HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND WHEN IT WAS, BUT IT WAS APPARENTLY MANY YEARS AGO. AND THIS IS IN 2 0 7 0.2 AND IT'S JUST A SECTION OF THE STANDARDS THAT DEALS WITH, UM, OH, I'M SORRY. IT'S FIVE AFTER 10. DO WE WANNA SEE ABOUT TAKING A BREAK? YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, WHY DON'T WE TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK, COME BACK AT A QUARTER AFTER. MM-HMM, . OKAY. THANK. SPREAD OUT ALL OVER. ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GONNA CALL THE MEETING BACK TO ORDER. ALL RIGHT. SO I'M GONNA JUST DO A QUICK RECAP OF WHERE WE'VE BEEN, THE JOURNEY WE'VE BEEN ON THIS MORNING. SO WE'VE COVERED SEVEN DIFFERENT ARTICLES THAT WE HAD TABLED. TWO 30 POINT 30 B FOUR 40.86, 90 POINT 31 B 1, 7 0 5 POINT 52, 51 24, 4 5 18 A AND FIVE 17.6. IN ADDITION TO THOSE, WE ALSO COVERED 7 0 5 POINT 50, THE TABLE THAT WAS PART OF CPS REVIEW THAT I MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO. 7 0 6, 7 22, 7 24, 7 26, 7 6800. CHAPTER NINE ANNEXES A AND E. AND NOW WE'RE UP TO CHAPTER 10. THIS IS VALERIE GLEASON. CPS ENERGY STANDARD SECTION 2 0 7 0.2 REQUIRES A MINIMUM TWO HOUR FIRE BARRIER TO SEPARATE THE AREAS SERVED BY EACH SERVICE. THIS IS ONE, YOU'RE ALLOWED MORE THAN ONE SERVICE. UM, IF YOU FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF THE APARTMENT BUILDINGS HAVE A SERVICE AT THIS END, A SERVICE AT THIS END. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO BE DIVIDED BY MINIMUM TO OUR FIRE BARRIER. THIS SECTION IS ENFORCED, IT'S IN THE CPS ENERGY STANDARDS, WHICH WE ENFORCE. UM, BUT IT'S ALSO LOOKED AT BY THE A HJ. UM, IT'S BASICALLY CPS PUTS IT BACK ON US TO ENFORCE, UH, AND CPS. PARDON? AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION. YEAH. MM-HMM. CPS IS ASKING US TO MOVE THIS BACK INTO OUR CHAPTER 10. SO CAN I ASK THEM A QUESTION? SO I HAVE A RETAIL CENTER THAT HAD TWO SERVICES SERVICING ONE, TWO DIFFERENT PROP, TWO DIFFERENT LEASE SPACES NEXT TO EACH OTHER. OKAY. THEN THEY ARE COMBINED INTO ONE SERVICE. I MEAN ONE SPACE WITH TWO DIFFERENT, WHERE YOU ARE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE TWO SERVICES NOW WITHOUT HAVING TO GO BACK AND TEAR EVERYTHING OUT AND REDO THAT, THIS WOULD PROHIBIT THAT. SO I'M NOT QUITE FOLLOWING YOUR EXAMPLE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIKE A STRIP CENTER? I HAVE A STRIP CENTER. IT HAD ORIGINALLY HAD TWO, TWO TENANTS, TWO DIFFERENT SPACES, TWO HOUR FIREWALL SEPARATION BETWEEN SPACE A AND B. AND THEN A AND B ARE COMBINED INTO ONE LOCATION FOR, BECAUSE THEY EXPAND THEIR SPACE OUT. WHAT THIS SAYS IS AT THAT POINT, YOU COULD NOT JUST CUT A HOLE IN THE WALL AND, AND LET THEM EXPAND. YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND TEAR EVERYTHING OUT AND REDO EVERYTHING BECAUSE YOU DON'T NO LONGER HAVE A TWO HOUR SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO METERS. I, I THINK, AND THAT'S WHERE IT KIND OF FALLS UPON COST OF THE POLICE AFTER THAT POINT. RIGHT? WE, IN, IN SOME OF THESE INSTANCES, WE POINT OUT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE, UM, COST RECOVERY, YOU KNOW, TWICE THROUGH A METER RIGHT. VERSUS JUST ONCE. UM, SO WOULD [01:05:01] THEY DROP THE ONE METER AND THEN WIRE EVERYTHING IN FROM THE, FROM A SINGLE POINT? I MEAN WE JUST DID THIS. WE LEFT THE BOTH METERS THERE BECAUSE WE WANTED IT, IF THEY LEAVE TO BE ABLE TO JUST PUT IT BACK, PUT THE WALL BACK AND CALL IT A DATE. SO IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE PAYING FOR TWO METERS, WHICH I GUESS IS GOOD FOR YOU BECAUSE IT'S MORE REVENUE SERVICES. BUT YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD INCLUDE THAT THIS WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO GO W 'EM ALL TOGETHER. I'M SORRY, MARK. THIS IS VALERIE GLEASON. SO WE ACTUALLY HAD TWO SERVICE GUTTERS ON THE BUILDING AND THE TWO METERS WEREN'T FED FROM THE SER SAINT GUTTER? NO, IT'S IN THE SAME, IT'S IN THE SAME GUTTER. OKAY. THEN THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO PICTURE A BUILDING, FOR EXAMPLE, A MULTI-TENANT BUILDING AND YOU HAVE A SERVICE GUTTER AT ONE END OF THE BUILDING AND ANOTHER SERVICE GUTTER AT THE OTHER END OF THE BUILDING. AND THOSE TWO AREAS THAT ARE SEPARATELY SERVED ARE DIVIDED BY A MINIMUM TO OUR FIRE BARRIER UNLESS THE BUILDING CODE REQUIRES SOMETHING MORE. OKAY. SO WHAT YOU HAVE IS PERFECTLY FINE. OKAY. YEAH. WE ALLOW THAT BECAUSE WE REALIZE THE COST YOU WOULD INCUR IF THEY DECIDE TO GO BACK TO TWO LEASE SPACES AND WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND ADD ANOTHER METER. SO WE DON'T MAKE YOU, THE ONLY THING WE WON'T LET THEM DO IS GO IN AND ADD YET ANOTHER METER RATHER THAN UPGRADING. OKAY. SO SERVICE MEANS ONE, THE DROP FROM THE POLE, NOT THE INDIVIDUAL METER CAN. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. MM-HMM, . OKAY. MY, MY TURN TO THROW THE CURVE BALL AGENT. SURE. SO I'M GONNA USE, UH, THE USA UH, FACILITY. THEY'VE GOT BUILDINGS G AND H OR BOTH SERVED BY DOUBLE-EDGED SUBSTATIONS. MAIN TIME MAIN. SO YOU HAVE A SERVICE COMING FROM FREDERICKSBURG ROAD SUBSTATION. YOU HAVE A SERVICE COMING FROM THE BLUE MILL ROAD SUBSTATION, TWO SERVICES COMING INTO A SINGLE ELECTRICAL ROOM. MM-HMM. THAT'S ISOLATED FROM THE REST OF THE FACILITY BEYOND THE FACILITY. IT'S SERVED IN FROM AN INDIVIDUAL SERVICE. 'CAUSE THEY'LL SERVE OFF, OFF OF ONE SIDE NORMALLY. HOW DOES THIS APPLY TO A SITUATION LIKE THAT WHERE YOU GOT A DOUBLE-ENDED SUBSTATION? SO I THINK YOU SAID THAT IT GOES INTO ONE ELECTRICAL ROOM THOUGH, CORRECT? MM-HMM, . SO THAT AGAIN, YOU, REGARDLESS OF IT'S TWO SEPARATE SOURCES, YOU'RE YOU'RE STILL GOING TO THAT ONE ROOM. UM, SO THAT'S STILL A, THAT'S STILL THE SERVICE, SINGLE SERVICE ENTRY POINT. MM-HMM, . OKAY. WHERE WE SEE A LOT OF THIS COME UP AND, AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT, WE, WE HAVE DISCUSSIONS WITH ENGINEERING FIRMS AND THINGS IS WHEN IN APARTMENT COMPLEXES MAINLY. UM, AND THEN LOOKING AT IT FROM A STANDPOINT STANDPOINT OF UTILITY, WHY ARE YOU, YOU TRYING TO ENFORCE SOMETHING YOU KNOW, WELL BEHIND THAT, THAT POINT OF DELIVERY. AND SO, YOU KNOW THAT, THAT'S WHERE IT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC AND, YOU KNOW, THEY MAY COME TO US FIRST BEFORE THEY GO TO THE CITY AND SO, YOU KNOW, IT IT, IT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC AND WE DON'T POLICE IT THAT FAR BACK INTO THE BUILDING. CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A TWO HOUR FIRE BETWEEN THE TWO SERVICES? WELL, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S EXPRESSED IN THE NEC IN SOME LANGUAGES ABOUT THE TWO FIRE, TWO HOUR FIRE BARRIER SEPARATION. I THINK, AND I'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO SOME OF THE HISTORY. I THINK VALERIE MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE LANGUAGE EVEN USED TO SAY FIREWALL GOT CHANGED TO BARRIER. UM, PART OF THIS ISSUE IS TO, TO LET YOU KNOW, ELECTRICIANS KNOW AND, AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT KNOW WHERE THINGS AND, AND PREVENTION OF FIRE SPREADING RIGHT FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER, BEING THAT THERE'S A CLEAR SEPARATION WHEN YOU HAVE TWO POINTS OF SERVICE TO A BUILDING, RIGHT. SEPARATED AND NOT CO-LOCATED. THE OTHER EXCEPTION AS WE TALKED ABOUT IS IF THE SERVICES ARE GROUPED SO THE FIRE BARRIER FALLS OUTTA THE PICTURE WHEN SERVICES ARE GROUPED. YEARS AGO, UM, WHEN WE WENT FROM THE UBC TO THE IBC, THE UNIFORM BUILDING CODE TO THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, UM, IT WAS ACTUALLY A FIREWALL WHICH MADE IT SEPARATE BUILDINGS. THE FIRE BARRIER DOES NOT MAKE IT SEPARATE BUILDINGS, BUT AGAIN, IT'S THE IDEA TO KEEP CIRCUITS DIVIDED. THE SECTION, UM, ADDITIONALLY TALKS ABOUT, UM, THAT CIRCUITS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CROSS THIS, THIS FIRE BARRIER. SO IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE METER AT ONE SERVICE, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE THAT HOUSE POWER TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING. YOU WOULD ESSENTIALLY HAVE HOUSE POWER AT BOTH FROM BOTH LOCATIONS. SO IT'S BASICALLY MEANT TO PROTECT THOSE THAT ARE SERVICING, WHETHER IT'S THE MAINTENANCE PEOPLE, IT'S AN ELECTRICIAN THAT GOES OUT, THEY'RE MAYBE NOT SO FAMILIAR WITH THE SITE. UM, WE DO HAVE CERTAIN CASE BY CASE SITUATIONS, MALLS, UM, THE AIRPORT, [01:10:01] THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH OTHER IDEAS THAT FIRE BARRIERS NOT FEASIBLE. AND THEN SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE A, A WATER CURTAIN OR SOMETHING ELSE TO MAKE IT WORK. UM, THE LARGER INSTALLATIONS LIKE THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE A CASE BY CASE, BUT THE TYPICAL, WHAT WE SEE ON A REGULAR BASIS WOULD HAVE THIS. OKAY. CAN WE TALK ABOUT WHERE WE'RE GONNA BRING IT IN? UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT MOVING THAT INTO TWO 30.2 AND TO MOVE THAT INTO CHAPTER 10, UH, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT NUMBER OF SERVICES, . JOHN, LOOKING AT THE, THE LANGUAGES ALSO TALKS ABOUT LOCATIONS OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS, SO, RIGHT. UH, WE, MM-HMM. , YOU KNOW, AGAIN, HAVE THIS, UH, UNIQUE SITUATION WHERE WE CROSS MULTIPLE AHJS. RIGHT. UM, HAVING YOU GUYS ADD THAT IN THERE KIND OF HELPS REINFORCE IT. I MEAN, BY FAR AWAY THE MAJORITY OF ISSUES COME UP IN, IN CSA DEVELOPMENT AREAS. UM, BUT AT AT LEAST THAT'S A WAY FOR US TO POINT THEM BACK TO SAY, HEY, WE'RE, WE'RE BOTH, UH, IN AGREEMENT. IT'S NOT JUST CPS. UM, WE WOULD LOOK AT HOW WE HAVE TO CRAFT THAT FOR AREAS OUTSIDE, BUT AGAIN, NOT NECESSARILY WANTING TO, TO BE THE SOLE STANDALONE POLICER OF THAT, OF THAT PARTICULAR SECTION. BUT HOW CAN YOU PUT SOMETHING IN THE BUILDING CODE THAT APPLIES OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS OF SAN ANTONIO? BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T, WE, WE CAN'T. WE, WE DON'T, WE DON'T. SO WE JUST TAKE THAT LANGUAGE, THAT PORTION OF THE LANGUAGE OUT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S JUST, YES, WE, WE WOULDN'T INCLUDE ANYTHING THAT REFERENCES OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS. MM-HMM. , I THINK IT MIGHT BE A CATALYST TO FORCE THOSE OTHER, NOT FORCE, BUT THE OTHER HJS WOULD RECOGNIZE US AS THE LARGE MUNICIPALITY. THEY'RE HEADING THAT DIRECTION. SO, BUT THAT'S CORRECT. UH, LOOKING AT PUTTING IT IN TWO 30.2, UM, SIR, THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. MAKE IT 2 32 POINT F AND ADD THIS. PLEASE BEAR IN MIND THAT EXCEPTION ONE, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO LEGALLY REQUIRED FIRE PUMPS. WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE THE WALL OFF THAT. THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES THAT'S THE ONLY WAY A FIRE PUMP CAN BE FED IS BY A SEPARATE SERVICE. SO THAT'S NOT GONNA BE ONE. AND THE OTHER EXCEPTION IS WHERE SERVICES ARE CO-LOCATED. . OKAY. SO TWO 3.2 F. ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE? YEAH. CAN WE GO BACK TO THE DEFINITION OF ONSITE? AND I DON'T, I AM SUPPORTIVE OF THE RECOMMENDATION TO HAVE THE JOURNEYMAN ON HAVING JUST A WIREMAN SUPERVISE PEOPLE, BUT I THINK THE LANGUAGE HERE IS NOT GOOD. IF YOU'RE GONNA ADD IT TO THAT SECTION, BECAUSE I GAVE THE EXAMPLE ON AN APARTMENT COMMUNITY THAT IS 20 ACRES BIG, AND IF I HAVE EIGHT PEOPLE WORKING, I CAN HAVE ONE PERSON SUPERVISING ON ALL 20 ACRES, BUT ON THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, IF THE LOTS ARE NOT CONTIGUOUS. SO I HAVE A LOT HERE, SKIP ONE, THEY'RE BUILDING A HOUSE HERE, SKIP ONE BUILDING ONE HERE, AND THEN ONE ACROSS THE STREET. AND YOU COULD NOT, YOU WOULD HAVE HAD ONE JOURNEYMAN PER HOUSE, OR ONE WIREMAN PER HOUSE BECAUSE THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS DON'T ABUT. AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT DEFINITION BY THE TIME WE GET TO THE BOARD THAT ALLOWS FOR THE SUPERVISION WITHIN THE AREA. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, THE GOOD VERBIAGE FOR THAT IS. MM-HMM. . BUT IT, IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU HAVE FOUR HOUSES THAT ARE WITHIN A COUPLE OF HUNDRED FEET OF EACH OTHER, I THINK THE INTENT IS THAT ONE PERSON COULD SUPERVISE THAT. BUT THE WAY THE LANGUAGE IS DRAFTED, IT DOESN'T SAY THAT HAVE IN THE NATURE WHERE WE'RE ALL GETTING HAMMERED ON AFFORDABILITY AND EVERYTHING. MM-HMM. , IF YOU HAD TO HAVE ONE JOURNEYMAN PER HOUSE BECAUSE YOU'RE BUILDING ONE HERE AND THERE'S A LOT BETWEEN [01:15:01] AND ONE NEXT DOOR. MM-HMM. . AND THEN MY OTHER POINT IS, IS THAT WHATEVER THE LANGUAGE SAYS, IT SHOULD BE WHAT'S ENFORCED. NOT, YOU KNOW, PRACTICE. WE NEED TO TAKE PRACTICE AND MOVE IT INTO THE, THE LANGUAGE. BUT WE CAN LEAVE TABLE OR JUST LEAVE IT NOW AND JUST BRING THE DEFINITION BACK TO THE BOARD. OKAY. WHEN WE DO THE BID, I WOULD CERTAINLY WELCOME SUGGESTIONS ON THAT WORDING. SO YEAH. YEAH. THE IMMEDIATE THING THAT COME COMES TO MY MIND IF, IF WE DID SOMETHING ALONG, ALONG THE LINES OF WITHIN A ONE ACRE TRACK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YEAH. SOME, SOME, BECAUSE I COULD HAVE FIVE HOUSES ON 20 ACRE TRACKS THAT ABUT EACH OTHER. AND THAT WOULD MEAN, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD BE A MILE OR TWO APART MM-HMM. YOU COULDN'T ENFORCE IT BECAUSE THEY GREW, BUT MM-HMM. , IT'S, IT JUST GETS A LITTLE TIRESOME WHEN WE'RE OUT THERE AND THE, I, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN MY DAY AS AN APPRENTICE. YOU DIDN'T SEND THE JOURNEYMAN TO THE SUPPLY HOUSE BECAUSE THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING WE HEAR. YOU ALWAYS SENT THE HELPER. SO, BUT YEAH, I WOULD CERTAINLY, IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING, I'M CERTAINLY THE WORD A BUT IN, IN THE SUBDIVISIONS IS A CONCERN. SO, AND, AND IF YOU LOOK, I ASSUME THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF THE STATE. YEAH. WHICH MEANS THAT THIS PERSON REALLY DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THERE WHILE THEY'RE WORKING UNDER THE STATE DEFINITION. THEY JUST HAVE TO GO BACK AND CHECK EVERYTHING THEY DID TO MAKE SURE THEY DID IT RIGHT. IF I'M READING THAT CORRECTLY. WELL, THERE'S ONE THING ABOUT DOING IT RIGHT, AND ONE THING ABOUT BEING TAUGHT. SO AT WHAT POINT DO I LIMIT, I'VE GOT A GREEN FIRST YEAR HELPER OUT THERE WHO'S NOT BEING DIRECTLY SUPERVISED, DOESN'T COMPLETELY KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING, AND THE COST OF HAVING TO GO BACK AND FIX THE THINGS THAT HE DID. NO, I, I UNDERSTAND. BUT I MEAN, I THINK YOU'RE, THE STATE IS THE ONE THAT DECIDES WHAT SUPERVISION IS REQUIRED IF WE CAN, I I THINK WE STILL CAN, WE CAN BE MORE STRICT, REQUIRE MORE. YES, SIR. UH, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO START WITH THAT AND THEN ADD TO IT SO THAT IT IS THE SAME. I DON'T, I DON'T LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE NOT THERE. I THINK THE INTENT IS THEY NEED TO BE ON AROUND AND LOOKING AND WATCHING. MM-HMM. RIGHT. AND INSPECTING THE WORK. AND I THINK PART OF IT IS IF YOU MAKE 'EM GO FIX IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. MM-HMM. , THEY'RE GOING TO GET THAT MESSAGE. GET IT. RIGHT. YEAH. BUT, BUT I JUST THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE, I LIKE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN X NUMBER OF FEET OR SOMETHING THAT'S MEASURABLE BECAUSE LIKE I GAVE THE EXAMPLE OF YOU'RE BUILDING THE TOYOTA PLAN. MM-HMM. , I COULD HAVE EIGHT APPRENTICE, EIGHT APPRENTICES WORKING IN THE TOYOTA PLAN A DIFFERENT CORNERS OF THING WITH ONE PERSON ON SITE. AND THAT'S LIKE A A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. CORRECT. RIGHT. BUT I COULDN'T HAVE SOMEBODY ON WIRING A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE WHERE THERE'S THREE LOTS WITHIN, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM. A COUPLE OF HUNDRED FEET OF EACH OTHER. OKAY. SO I JUST THINK WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT IN THE DEFINITION AND THEN WE NEED TO ENFORCE IT. WELL, WE DEFINITELY NEED THIS. COMMITTEE'S HELP IN DOING THAT. MM-HMM. I WOULD WELCOME EMAILS. I MEAN, YOU ALL HAVE MY CONTACT INFORMATION. CORRECT. SO, SO ONE, ONE COMMENT, THIS IS WHY. YES, SIR. SO I WOULD NOT THINK THE INSPECTOR WOULD ASK FOR LICENSES EVERY SINGLE TIME, ALTHOUGH THEY MIGHT MM-HMM. . BUT WHAT I, WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IS SOMETHING'S CLEARLY NOT DONE WELL OR THERE'S A PROBLEM YOU WANT THE ABILITY TO SAY, PUT SOME TEETH IN IT AND MAKE SURE SOMEBODY'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AND IS ONSITE. THAT'S CORRECT. IF THEY'RE NOT, YOU'VE GOT A WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT. RIGHT? YEAH. AND, AND WE DO. UM, THEY DON'T CHECK EVERY SINGLE TIME. THEY DO CHECK FREQUENTLY. AND I PROBABLY HAVE SOME THAT CHECK A LITTLE MORE THAN OTHERS. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THE SUPERVISION IS OCCURRING THE WAY WE FEEL IT SHOULD GET THAT AND, AND THE OTHER GET SIDE OF THIS MM-HMM. IS WE, WE DON'T WANT TO DIMINISH OH NO. THE, THOSE FOLKS THAT HAVE DONE THAT WORK AND ARE DULY LICENSED, WE DON'T WANT TO MINIMIZE THAT. THERE'S NO VALUE TO IT. YES. YEAH. AND VALERIE, CAN YOU DO ME A FAVOR AND JUST CAN YOU EMAIL ME OR CRYSTAL THE STATE LANGUAGE AND [01:20:01] I'LL PLAY WITH THAT AS WELL AS SURE. WHAT'S ON SITE AND JUST IN THIS EMAIL AND I'LL WORK ON SOMETHING. OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD. AND THEN I'LL, UM, VISIT, REACH OUT AND SEE WHAT THEIR OPINIONS ARE TOO. THAT'S ALL I HAVE, SO. OKAY. SO KEEPING SOME CONSISTENCY IN THE PRIOR MEETINGS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID IS ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE ARTICLES THAT WERE COVERED DURING THE SESSION. UM, SO I, AT THIS POINT, POINT, I WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE ARTICLE. UH, JUST REAL QUICK, JEREMY MCDONALD, UH, I WANNA MAKE SURE, UH, SO WE HAVE TWO AGENDA ITEMS AND WE HAVE, UH, THE ONE ITEM THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE GONNA MAKE A MOTION ON RIGHT, THE CHAPTER 10. UH, IF Y'ALL DO MAKE A MOTION ON THAT, THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE MOTION SINCE THAT WOULD BE A DIFFERENT, UH, AGENDA ITEM. SO JUST TO MAKE SURE Y'ALL HAVE THAT ON, ON YOUR AGENDA APPROVAL OF ALL THE NEC ITEMS WE DISCUSSED WITH OUR CHANGES. ALRIGHT, I HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? UH, EDWARD DEL TORO IS SECONDED. ANY DISCUSSION? ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? OKAY. MOTION CARRIES CHAPTER 10, MOVE APPROVAL OF THE CHAPTER 10 AMENDMENTS WITH THE PROVISION THAT A DEFINITION FOR ONSITE WILL BE BROUGHT TO THE BOARD. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? EDWARD DEL TORAH. I, I SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. A OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES . GOOD JOB. ALRIGHT, SUBCOMMITTEE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR Y'ALL'S TIME, UH, FOR THESE THREE MEETINGS. DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THAT. UH, DOUBLE CHECKING, MAKE SURE WE ARE GOOD WITH NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH ANY OTHER SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS FOR THIS ELECTRICAL SUBCOMMITTEE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO, UH, WE WILL, UH, ADJOURN THIS SUBCOMMITTEE AND TAKE ALL THE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, TO THE BOARD. UH, WHEN WE MEET IN EITHER NOVEMBER OR DECEMBER. UH, THINGS ARE MOVING PRETTY QUICKLY, UH, THROUGH EVERYTHING. UH, EVEN WITH OUR BUILDING AND FIRE CODE. UH, WE'LL BE STARTING THE EXISTING BUILDING CODE, MOVING INTO THE IRC NEXT WEEK, UH, EXISTING BUILDING CODE TOMORROW IRC NEXT WEEK. UH, SO DEPENDING ON HOW THAT, SO WE MAY MOVE FORWARD, UM, MAYBE EVEN LATE NOVEMBER, UH, WITH SOME OF THE ACTUAL BOARD MEETINGS INSTEAD OF WAITING UNTIL DECEMBER IF WE CAN. SO WE'LL PUSH THAT AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. UH, BUT I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S TIME AS PART OF THIS SUBCOMMITTEE. IT WAS DEFINITELY INVALUABLE, UH, TO STAFF AND, UH, PROVIDE ALL THE COMMENTS AND SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS, UH, OPINIONS ON ALL THIS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THAT CONCLUDES EVERYTHING FROM STAFF CHAIR. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST EXTEND A THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY FOR TAKING TIME OUT OF OUR BUSY SCHEDULES TO BE HERE. THANK YOU FOR CPS FOR BEING HERE ALSO FOR CITY STAFF. UM, IT'S A PLEASURE TO WORK WITH YOU WITH A GREAT TEAM. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.