* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] OKAY, WE'LL CALL THE MEETING. HAVING A GOOD, WE'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. JEREMY, WE'RE READY TO GO. YOU WANT THIS ONE? NO, I'M I I'LL JUST REMEMBER TO PRESS THE BUTTON AND THAT WAY THEY DON'T HEAR MY COMMENTS IN BETWEEN. CAN WE GET THE TRANSLATION? ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. JEREMY MCDONALD, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. THANKS EVERYONE FOR JOINING US TODAY. THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE MECHANICAL CODES SUBCOMMITTEE. UH, THINGS HAVE BEEN MOVING ALONG REALLY WELL WITH ALL OUR SUBCOMMITTEES. UH, WE'VE KNOCKED OUT A LOT OF THE TRADES. UH, THINGS ARE MOVING REALLY WELL WITH THE OTHER ONE, SO APPRECIATE EVERYBODY BEING HERE TODAY. UH, WE'LL DO A FIRST, WE'LL DO AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF THEIR, UH, INTERPRETERS AVAILABLE. GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING, LOS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THERE ARE NO MINUTES. UH, NO, NO. THERE ARE NO MINUTES. WE'LL [ Roll Call  ] DO A QUICK ROLL CALL. UM, MICHAEL RUST. MARK ROSS PRESENT. GREG MCFARLAND. SCOTT BERGER. PRESENT. JEFF BYER. PRESENT. GEORGE OLIVA. PRESENT. WILLIAM BURRIS. CORY PALMER. PRESENT. ALRIGHT, WE HAVE QUORUM [ Briefing and Possible Action on the following items  ] SO WE CAN, UH, VOTE TO ADD A CHAIR. I MOVE THAT WE, THIS IS COREY PALMER. I MOVE THAT WE NOMINATE MIKE RUST AS CHAIR AND MARK ROSS AS CO-CHAIR. THERE A SECOND. GEORGE SLIVA WILL SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? EXCEPTIONS. MOTION CARRIED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, AND CO-CHAIR, MARK. WE'LL, UH, TURN IT OVER TO YOU. NEXT SLIDE. UH, SO THIS IS JUST ON THERE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REASON RIGHT NOW. UM, I GUESS REAL QUICK, JUST SO WE HAVE, UH, QUORUM FOR NEXT WEEK. I KNOW GREG'S BEEN, UH, HE'S BEEN HAVING SOME HEALTH ISSUES, SO I DON'T WANNA COMMIT THAT HE WOULD BE HERE. HOPEFULLY HE CAN BE. BUT WHAT DOES EVERYBODY'S TIME LOOK LIKE FOR NEXT WEEK? IF WE HAVE EVERYBODY THAT'S HERE NOW, THEN WE'LL AT LEAST HAVE QUORUM. I KNOW WILLIAM BARRIS, UH, AS THE FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEER WANTED TO BE ON HERE, BUT I, I THINK HE MAY NOT BE AVAILABLE NEXT WEEK AS WELL. SO THE ONLY REASON I ASK IS IF WE NEED SIX OR IF WE HAVE SIX, THEN I NEED FOUR. BUT IF WE ONLY HAVE FIVE, THEN I ONLY NEED THREE. SO IF IT LOOKS LIKE WE WON'T HAVE ALL FOUR OF Y'ALL HERE NEXT WEEK, THEN I WOULD RECOMMEND WE GO AHEAD AND DROP IT DOWN. BUT IF ALL Y'ALL ARE COMMITTED AND IT LOOKS GOOD, THEN I WOULD SAY WE KEEP THEM. SO WHAT'S THE DATE NEXT WEEK? UM, TUESDAY 29TH. OKAY. I'LL DOUBLE CHECK AND GET IT ON YOUR CALENDAR, UH, RIGHT NOW SO THAT WE'RE GOOD THERE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. BUT THEN, YEAH, I SAY WE TABLE THIS AND NO, NO CONCERN WITH THAT. MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. OKAY. THEN I WILL, UH, WE ARE MOVING INTO THE MEAT OF THE PROJECT. UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE IMC, UH, FIRST AND, UH, CHAPTER 10, SECTION 10 62, WHICH IS THE AMENDMENTS ADOPTED, UH, WITH THE INTERNATIONAL MECHANICAL CODE. I'LL TURN IT OVER TO ASSISTANT DIRECTOR CRYSTAL GONZALEZ TO REVIEW THAT WITH Y'ALL. THANK YOU. THANKS, CRYSTAL. JUAN. GOOD MORNING. UH, CRYSTAL GONZALEZ, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, AND I HAVE JASMINE ROA HERE. SHE'S A SUPERVISOR IN OUR PLAN REVIEW DIVISION. UM, WE HAVE, UH, CHIEF JOE HERE, MECHANICAL CHIEF, UH, VIVIAN LOPEZ, SENIOR PLAN REVIEWER IN OUR, UH, PLAN REVIEW DIVISION. SO, UM, THERE ARE EXPERTS THAT ARE DOING THIS EVERY DAY, UH, REVIEWING PLANS AND IN THE FIELD. SO HAPPY THAT THEY ARE HERE TO ANSWER ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. SO WE'LL GET STARTED WITH ITEM NUMBER ONE. SO IF YOU WERE ON ANY OF THE OTHER COMMITTEES, YOU'LL REALIZE THAT THIS SECTION WAS CONSISTENT THROUGH SEVERAL OF THE CODES. SO THEY'VE REMOVED THE, UH, CUTTING NOTCHING AND BORING SECTIONS AND JUST REFERENCED THE IBC. UM, AGAIN, THIS IS CONSISTENT ACROSS ALL THE, ALL THE CODES. SO WHEN THEY UPDATE IT, UPDATE THOSE REQUI REQUIREMENTS, THEY ONLY HAVE TO DO IT IN ONE PLACE AND EVERYTHING JUST REFERENCES BACK TO THAT. AND THAT WOULD BE ONE AND TWO OR BOTH OF THAT. ONE AND TWO ARE BOTH THAT? YES. SO TWO IS FOR THE COLD FORM STEEL FRAMING. ANY QUESTIONS ON THOSE? PRETTY SIMPLE. START OFF. EASY WITH SOME SOFTBALLS HERE. LOBBING IT UP FOR Y'ALL. UM, ITEM NUMBER THREE. THAT WAS A, UH, CHANGE TO THOSE EXISTING SECTIONS. 3 0 5 0.5 AND [00:05:01] 3 0 5 5 1. SO REALLY THIS WAS JUST THE, UM, ADDITION OF THE SHIELD PLATES THERE TO, FOR PROTECTION AGAINST PHYSICAL DAMAGE. ANY ISSUES WITH THAT SECTION? SO BASICALLY WHAT THIS IS, IS IT REMOVES THE REQUIREMENTS TO MANDATORILY HAVE THE PLATES, UNLESS IT'S NOT EXACTLY IN THE CENTER IN WORDS. THINK THEY ACTUALLY, YOU DON'T HAVE THE INCH AND A QUARTER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE PLATE. IF, IF YOU HAVE AN INCH AND A QUARTER, YOU DON'T. CORRECT. ALL RIGHT. NEXT ITEM. THIS WAS A CHANGE TO THE REQUIREMENT FOR PERMANENT ACCESS. SO WE SAW THIS IN THE, UH, FUEL GAS CODE AS WELL. WE HAVE AN IMAGE FOR THE LADDER HERE. SO THESE REQUIREMENTS WERE UPDATED FROM OSHA, LIKE ITEM TWO ADDED THE MINIMUM RUNG SPACING OF 10 INCHES. ITEM THREE INCREASED TO MINIMUM TOE SPACING FROM SIX TO SEVEN INCHES AND ADDED A MAXIMUM OF A 12 INCH DEPTH. THIS IMAGE. AND THE FALL PROTECTION WOULD BE THE LITTLE ROUND THING THAT GOES AROUND IT. IF IT'S HIGHER THAN 24, THE, LIKE THE CAGE. IS THAT, YEAH, IT'S, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND IT. IT SAYS THE MAXIMUM 24 FEET ON THE PICTURE FALL PROTECTION WOULD BE A CAGE AROUND IT. OKAY. BUT WE DON'T, THAT'S NOT REQUIRED IN THE IMC. IS IT? THAT'S, THAT'S THE OSHA STANDARD. THIS IS THE, THE PICTURE THAT, THAT WE BROUGHT OVER FROM THE OSHA STANDARDS JUST TO KIND OF EXPLAIN SOME OF THE, THE EXTENSION AND THE, UH, CLEAR WIDTH AND RUN SPACING. ANY QUESTIONS NEXT? ALRIGHT, MOVING INTO CHAPTER FOUR. WE MIGHT NOT NEED A MEETING NEXT WEEK. Y SO I'M JUST SAYING WE'RE, IF WE'RE MOVING THIS QUICKLY, UM, CHAPTER FOUR IS VENTILATION. SO YOU'LL SEE LOTS OF CHANGES TO TABLE 4 0 3, 3 0.11 FOR MINIMUM VENTILATION RATES. THEY ADDED THE ANIMAL FACILITIES, OUTPATIENT HEALTHCARE FACILITIES, ADDITIONS OF MORE SPECIFIC USES UNDER THE FOOD AND BEVERAGE SERVICES, HOTELS AND DORMS, OFFICE AND WORKSPACES. THIS WAS REALLY JUST TO, UH, MATCH THE ASHRAY REQUIREMENTS. SO THEY, THEY REALLY JUST EXPANDED THIS TABLE TO ADD MORE OF THOSE OCCUPANCY CLASSIFICATIONS AND THEN THE, UH, VENTILATION REQUIREMENTS THAT, THAT ARE APPLICABLE TO THOSE. AND IS EVERYTHING IN BLUE, IS WHAT THEY ADDED? YES. EVERYTHING IS BLUE. WAS THIS A REQUIREMENT BEFORE THROUGH A DIFFERENT CODE? UM, SO THIS HAS, THIS TABLE HAS BEEN HERE, SO THEY ADDED MORE SPECIFIC USES. SO A LOT OF TIMES IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND LIKE WHERE A USE WOULD FIT INTO THE OCCUPANCY CLASSIFICATION. THEY'VE MADE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO IDENTIFY, UM, WHICH LINE TO USE, WHICH ROW O. BUT THESE MINIMUM VENTILATION RATES ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL OCCUPANCIES. THIS JUST HELPS IDENTIFY, UH, MORE CLEARLY. WHICH ONE, UH, WHICH ONE ON THE ASHRAY? IS IT 62.1? IS THAT, IS THAT IT'S THE NEW ESTIMATE SHOULD BE, I'LL LOOK REAL QUICK IN THE STANDARDS TO SEE. YES. 2022. SO THAT'S THE CODE WE USE NOW. THAT'S THE ASHRAY STANDARD THAT IT'S REFERENCING. OKAY. NEXT ITEM OF, OKAY, CHAPTER FIVE. CHAPTER FIVE IS EXHAUST SYSTEMS. 5 0 1 0.3 0.1. SO THIS, THIS SECTION REVISED ITEM NUMBER THREE. SO THIS IS LOCATION OF EXHAUST OUTLETS THAT SAYS THE TERMINATION POINT OF EXHAUST OUTLETS AND DUCKS CHARGING TO THE OUTDOORS SHALL BE LOCATED WITH THE FO FOLLOWING MINIMUM DISTANCES. [00:10:02] FOR NUMBER THREE, ALL ENVIRONMENTAL AIR EXHAUST THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, THREE FEET FROM OPERABLE OPENINGS, EXCEPT WHERE THE EXHAUST OPENING IS LOCATED AT LEAST A FOOT ABOVE THE GRAVITY AIR INTAKE OPENING. SO THIS IS A KIND OF A RELAXATION OF THE CODE, UH, AND, AND WILL BE BENEFICIAL FOR ANY MULTIFAMILY OR ANY OCCUPANCY WHERE THE WALL SPACE IS LIMITED. SO DOES THE, DOES IT REMOVE THE THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE? NO, NO. THE THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE IS STILL THERE. OKAY. AND IT, YOU HAVE TO BE THREE FEET FROM OPENABLE, UH, OPERABLE OPENINGS. AND THIS IS KIND OF AN EXCEPTION TO THAT. ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? ALRIGHT, ITEM NUMBER SEVEN. WE ARE IN 5 0 1 0.6 COMMON DUCTS. SO THIS NEW SECTION STATES THAT THE DISCHARGE FROM EXHAUST FANS SERVING SEPARATE DWELLING OR SLEEPING UNITS SHALL NOT BE CONNECTED TO A COMMON DUCT OR SHAFT. MAKES SENSE. EXCEPT WHERE THE COMMON DUCT OR SHAFT IS MAINTAINED AT NEGATIVE PRESSURE. SO THIS IS A, A NEW SECTION AND WE ARE SEEING THIS, UM, LIKE IN A HOTEL, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE THAT, UH, NEGATIVE PRESSURE, THERE'S NO ISSUE WITH THAT. COMMON, COMMON DUCT. AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN IS THAT THERE'S A FAN ON THE TOP SECOND AIR OUT. YEP. AND IT'S, YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL CONNECTED, BUT IF IT'S JUST REGULAR FLOW SO THAT IT DOES GO FROM UNIT TO UNIT. CORRECT. OKAY. IS THIS APPLIED FOR RESIDENTIAL AS WELL OR IT DOES INCLUDE DWELLING UNITS? UM, APARTMENTS IS WHERE WE WOULD MOST LIKELY, OR WE, WHERE WE COULD SEE THIS. YEAH, THIS IS INSPECTOR FRIS. UH, WE DON'T NORMALLY SEE THAT ON RESIDENTIAL OTHER THAN WHEN YOU HAVE MAYBE TWO EXHAUST FANS CONNECTED, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, RESTROOM EXHAUSTS THAT ARE CONNECTED. THAT'S, THAT'LL, THAT'LL BE FINE BECAUSE THE EXHAUST FAN ITSELF HAS A DAMPER IN ITSELF. SO IF ONE IS ON THE OTHER ONE'S OFF, IT WON'T, IT'LL GO BACK OUTSIDE. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS SAYS. THIS SAYS IF YOU HAVE A COMMON DEAL, YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE PIPE UNLESS IT'S UNDER NEGATIVE. YEAH. NEGATIVE PRESSURE. NOT, NOT POSITIVE. IT DOESN'T, YEAH, BUT IT DOESN'T TALK ABOUT IF IT'S DAMPERED. IT JUST SAYS THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO, THE WAY THIS IS DRAFTED, THE WAY I READ IT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE TWO SEPARATE DUCKS OUT FOR EACH FAN UNLESS YOU PUT THE FAN ON THE ROOF. IT SOUNDS LIKE Y'ALL WANTED THIS FOR HOTELS AND BIG SP NOT FOR HOUSES IS WHAT I'M THINKING. CAN WE JUST CALL, TAKE OUT RESIDENTIAL? THE, THE, THE, THE RESIDENTIAL FALLS, THE I OR C? SO THIS IS MOSTLY FOR COMMERCIAL. IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THAT'S WHAT HE'S SAYING. SO IF WE'RE GONNA SAY IT NEEDS TO SAY FOR COMMERCIAL, NOT FOR RESIDENTIAL. 'CAUSE RESIDENTIAL IS DIFFERENT. IT'S GOT BACK DRAFT CAMP IN ALL YEAH. THINGS. CAN WE JUST ADD AN EXCEPTION LANGUAGE FOR SINGLE FAMILY AND DUPLEXES? SO WE DO OR DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE? IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE. WE DO ADOPT THE MECHANICAL SECTIONS OF THE IRC. SO ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS WOULD FALL UNDER THE MECHANICAL SECTIONS OF THE IRC AND NOT THIS CODE. OKAY. SO CAN WE JUST GO VERIFY THAT THIS LANGUAGE DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE IRC? DEFINITELY. SO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT. WILL DO. BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES IT'S, IF IT MADE IT INTO ONE, IT MAKES IT ALL YOUR CHAIR . OKAY. SO JUST FOR THE RECORD, 5 0 1 0.6 DOES NOT APPLY TO SINGLE FAMILY OR DUPLEXES. CORRECT. OKAY, THEN I THINK THAT'S GOOD. SO MIKE'S READY TO BREAK. WHAT'S THAT? LET, LET'S THE RECORD LOOK LIKE MIKE SHOWED UP AND I'M NOW NOT CHAIR PRETTY SERIOUS. SERIOUS. DO YOU HAVE A SHEET SHOWS YOU TO BE LATE? WE CAN GO TO EIGHT. OKAY. I'LL STALL TO GIVE OUR CHAIR A CHANCE TO CATCH UP. [00:15:05] OKAY. THIS IS A, UM, FAIRLY SIMPLE AS WELL. NUMBER EIGHT, THOSE WERE NEW SECTIONS FOR 5 0 5 0.7 AND 5 0 5 0.8 FOR GROUP I, TWO I ONE AND I TWO OCCUPANCIES. SO THOSE ARE OUR, UM, ASSISTED LIVING OCCUPANCIES IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS GOING TO APPLY TO. UM, IT SAYS THAT FOR THOSE OCCUPANCIES, OER UNDER, UH, DOMESTIC COOKING EXHAUST EQUIPMENT, SO FOR THOSE OCCUPANCIES HOOD INSTALLATIONS OVER DOMESTIC COOKING EQUIPMENT, UH, INSTALLED PER THE BUILDING CODE SHALL COMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING. SO THE RANGE HOOD SHALL HAVE A MINIMUM AIRFLOW RATE OF 500 CFM. THOSE ARE, THAT'S A NEW REQUIREMENT. UM, THE MECHANICAL VENTILATION SHALL BE PROVIDED TO THE ROOMS OR SPACES CONTAINING THAT DOMESTIC COOKING EQUIPMENT THAT WAS ALREADY INCLUDED. UM, AND AND NUMBER THREE IS A NEW ITEM THAT THOSE RANGE HOOD EXHAUST SHALL DISCHARGE TO THE OUTDOORS EXCEPT THREE WOULD NOT APPLY IF YOU ARE DOING THE CHARCOAL FILTER ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT. CORRECT. THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR THOSE DUCTLESS RANGE HOODS. CAN WE JUST, UH, I'M NOT SAYING WE SHOULD NOT, I WANT TO ADOPT IT, BUT CAN WE JUST VERIFY THAT THERE ARE RANGE HOODS IN LIKE STANDARD KITCHEN RESIDENTIAL RANGE HOODS THAT MEET THAT 500 STANDARD THERE? THEY'RE OVER MOST OF THEM. OKAY. THANK YOU YOUR HONOR. OKAY, NUMBER NINE. THESE ARE NEW SECTIONS FOR A LIGHT TEST AND WATER SPRAY TEST. UM, WELL THE LIGHT TEST WAS REQUIRED AND IT SPECIFIED A POWER RATING OF AT LEAST A HUNDRED WATTS. SO THEY CHANGED THAT TO THE 600 LUMENS BECAUSE MOST INSTALLERS ARE USING LED LAMPS, WHICH ARE RATED IN LUMENS INSTEAD OF WATTS. SO IT'S JUST, UH, BASICALLY AN EQUIVALENT, UH, JUST A CHANGE IN, UM, THE HOW IT'S MEASURED. AND THE WATER SPRAY TEST IS AN ALTERNATE TO THE LIGHT TEST. SO TO COMPLY WITH THIS, YOU HAVE TO, IN A COMMERCIAL BUILDING, YOU HAVE TO RUN A LIGHT THROUGH THE WHOLE DUCT SYSTEM TO SEE IF THERE'S UM, ANY HOLES. ANY, YEAH. MM-HMM, . OKAY. WE OKAY? YEAH, NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. WE ARE IN 5 0 7 NOW COMMERCIAL KITCHEN HOODS 5 0 7 0.1. SO NEW EXCEPTIONS. SO THIS SECTION SAYS THAT COMMERCIAL COOKING, COMMERCIAL COMMERCIAL KITCHEN EXHAUST HOOD SHALL COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SECTION. EITHER TYPE ONE OR TYPE TWO. AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS EXCEPTIONS TO THAT. SO NUMBER THREE WAS ADDED FOR OVENS LISTED AND LABELED FOR USE WITH WOOD FUEL IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE UL STANDARD NUMBER FOUR APPEARS TO BE NEW. AN ELECTRIC COOKING APPLIANCE LISTED AND LABELED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT UL STANDARD FOR REDUCED GREASE EMISSIONS. THAT WAS AN EXCEPTION PREVIOUSLY, UM, ALLOWED UNDER 5 0 7 2, WHICH IS FOR TYPE ONE HOODS, COMMERCIAL ELECTRIC DISHWASHERS INCORPORATING SELF-CONTAINED CONDENSING SYSTEM. SO AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL EXCEPTIONS, SO WE LIKE EXCEPTIONS. THOSE ARE GOOD. YOU DON'T HAVE TO MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS IF YOU PROVIDE THIS TYPE OF EQUIPMENT. UM, NUMBER SIX, UH, THAT WAS ALSO PREVIOUSLY INCLUDED FOR, UM, TYPE TWO HOODS. 5 0 7 3. YES. TYPE TWO HOODS. SO IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF CHANGES, BUT A LOT OF THAT LANGUAGE WAS ALREADY INCLUDED FOR EITHER TYPE ONE OR TYPE TWO. AND IT MOVED, THEY MOVED THEM TO THIS EXCEPTION. UH, THAT'S RELEVANT FOR BOTH TYPE ONE AND TWO. [00:20:03] WE GOOD WITH THAT? OKAY. NUMBER 11, THIS WAS A REVISION OF 5 0 7 1 3 FOR FUEL BURNING APPLIANCES. THE LANGUAGE WAS REALLY REWRITTEN. THE INTENT IS THE SAME, JUST A LITTLE MORE DIRECT FOR FUEL BURNING APPLIANCES. UH, APPLIANCES EQUIPPED WITH DRAFT HOODS OR ATMOSPHERIC BURNERS SHALL NOT BE LOCATED IN THE SAME ROOM OR SPACE CONTAINING A TYPE ONE OR TYPE TWO HOOD EXCEPT WHERE THE APPLIANCE IS LOCATED IN A SEALED ENCLOSURE EQUIPPED WITH A SELF-CLOSING DEVICE WITH COMBUSTION AIR OBTAINED FROM THE OUTDOORS OR OTHER SPACES IN THE BUILDING IN ACCORDANCE WITH CHAPTER SEVEN OR THE FUEL GAS CODE. WHAT IS AN ATMOSPHERE OF VERNA JOE? I HAVE NO IDEA. WE WE'RE THAT THEY'RE NOT VERY, I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN ONE IN SAN IN IN SAN ANTONIO. WELL GOOD. WE WON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS SECTION MUCH. AND AGAIN, UH, SAME INTENT AS THE PREVIOUS CODE. JUST A LITTLE MORE DIRECT IN THE MEANING, UM, IN THE SUMMARY OF CHANGE ON YOUR SPREADSHEET, I HAVE THE 2021 IMC LANGUAGE. THERE YOU CAN SEE THAT IT, IT'S, IT'S REALLY THE SAME, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T WANT US TO, IT HUNG UP ON ALL THE BLUE THAT WE SEE SCROLLING THROUGH THE, UH, THE DIGITAL VERSION HERE. I, UH, JUST REAL QUICK. SO THE ATMOSPHERIC REALLY IS JUST SAYING THE, THE COMBUSTION AIR THAT'S BEING ADDED TO THE BURNERS TO PRODUCE THE FLAME IS NOT DONE MECHANICALLY. IT'S JUST THERE'S NATURAL PULLS FROM THE AIR. SO A LOT OF WHAT WE SEE IS KIND OF ATMOSPHERIC. THEY JUST DON'T CALL IT THAT. UH, AND WE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THIS WHEN WE DID THE REVIEW TO, TO KINDA LOOK AT IT AND SEE WE'RE NOT REALLY ADDING ANY MORE REQUIREMENTS. IT WAS JUST KIND OF, YOU HAD THIS TYPE OF KITCHEN WHERE YOU HAD THE, THE HOODS AND IF FOR SOME REASON YOU HAD YOUR HOT WATER HEATER IN THE SAME ROOM, YOU WOULD'VE TO PUT SOME TYPE OF BOAT. NOW WE LOOKED AT ALL THE SCENARIOS. WE REALLY NEVER SEEN ANY TIME WHERE THIS REALLY CAME IN PLACE. WE THINK MAYBE IT WAS LIKE A COUPLE OF SPECIFIC SCENARIOS THAT CAME UP IN THE CODE REVIEW CYCLE WHERE SOMEBODY SAID, HEY, I'M SEEING THESE. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO MIXING OF COMBUSTIBLE AIRS AND, AND COMBUSTION WITH THE VIN HOODS SINCE THEY'RE CREATING THAT DRAFT. SO THEY JUST KIND OF WANT A LITTLE BIT OF A BARRIER BETWEEN ANYTHING THAT, UH, IS KIND OF LIKE AN OPEN ATMOSPHERE BURNER THAT YOU COULD SUCK SOME OF THOSE GASES INTO THE ROOM BECAUSE YOU HAD THE BEEN HOOD CONSTANTLY GOING AND THEY JUST WANNA ELIMINATE THAT BY HAVING SOME TYPE OF BARRIER. OH MY GOD. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT, THAT THEY HAVE ENCLOS, THE WATER HEAT TYPE OR ANYTHING THAT'S USING THAT OPEN ATMOSPHERIC FROM OUTSIDE SEE A RESTAURANT? YEAH. SEE A LOT OF WATER HEATERS JUST IN THE KITCHENS ANYMORE. THEY KIND OF, I TRY TO ELIMINATE THAT. YEAH, EXACTLY. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING. WE, WE COULDN'T REALLY FIND A LOT OF SCENARIOS WHERE THIS WAS HAPPENING, BUT IT MAKES SENSE AND THAT, THAT THEY JUST WANNA LIMIT HOW MUCH THOSE COMBUSTIBLES ARE IN THE ATMOSPHERE. I I THINK WE'RE ABOUT TO GET REPRIMANDED FOR NOT USING OUR MICROPHONES, SO PLEASE MENTION THAT WE ALWAYS USE THEM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU CHAIR . ALRIGHT, SO ARE WE GOOD ON 5 0 7 1? WE'RE GOOD ON 5 0 7 1 3 REPRIMAND MYSELF. OKAY. ITEM NUMBER 12. THIS WAS A NEW SECTION OR APPEARS TO BE A NEW SECTION OF 5 0 7 0.3 0.4 FOR THE CAPACITY OF TYPE TWO HOODS. SO THIS SECTION WAS ORIGINALLY WRITTEN TO INCLUDE TYPE ONE AND TWO. SO IT'S COPIED OVER FOR TYPE ONE HOODS IN HERE. YOU'LL SEE IT FOR TYPE TWO HOODS THAT THE TYPE TWO HOOD SHALL EXHAUST A MINIMUM NET QUANTITY OF AIR DETERMINED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SECTION AND THE FOLLOWING SECTIONS. THE NET QUANTITY OF EXHAUST AIR SHALL BE CALCULATED BY SUBTRACTING ANY AIR FLOW SUPPLIED DIRECTLY TO A HOOD CAVITY FROM THE TOTAL EXHAUST FLOW RATE OF HOOD. GOOD. NEXT ITEM. WE ARE JUST A QUICK GO AHEAD, QUICK QUESTION. SO THIS, UM, IN A PREVIOUS SECTION WE TALKED ABOUT DISHWASHER APPLIANCES AND THE, THE STANDARD WAS THAT THERE WAS AN EXCEPTION IF YOU PUSH 0.7 CFM PER SQUARE FOOT, YOU DIDN'T NEED THE SPECIFIC KIND OF HOOD. AND THEN THIS REFERENCES THREE OR 5 0 7 3 4 2 SAYING THAT IT SHOULD BE 100 CFM PER LINEAR FOOT OF HOOD LENGTH. [00:25:01] I MEAN, DO THEY JUST DO THIS TO TORTURE, TORTURE ME OR WHAT IS IT, LIKE HOW DIFFERENT ARE THE, ARE THOSE STANDARDS OR IS IT THE SAME STANDARD? WHERE ARE YOU SEEING THE ONE OH, OKAY. WITH THE DISHWASHER. RIGHT, BUT THE OTHER ONE TALKS ABOUT SQUARE FOOT POINT 0.7 CFM. SO THAT WASN'T, OH, THAT WAS THE EXCEPTION. DISHWASHER AND APPLIANCE BECAUSE THEY'VE CHANGED THE, THEY'VE CHANGED THE STANDARD OF CALCULATION, I GUESS IS WHAT I'M ASKING. SO I'M ASKING YOU TO DO MATH FOR ME. I THINK THIS POINT, SO THAT'S FOR THE COOKING APPLIANCES, SO REREADING THAT EXCEPTION. SO THE FIRST SENTENCE WE'RE WHERE THE FIRST SENTENCE WHERE HEAT AND MOISTURE LOADS FROM THE DISHWASHER AND APPLIANCES THAT PRODUCE HEAT OR MOISTURE. AND THE SECOND SENTENCE IS SPECIFIC. THOSE SPACE SPACES CONTAINING COOKING APPLIANCES THAT DON'T REQUIRE TYPE TWO HOOD SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH THAT EXHAUST RATE. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? YOU'RE MAKING ME THINK HARD HERE EARLY THIS MORNING. THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FROM MAKING ME BE CHAIR WHEN I WENT IN HERE. 5 0 8 0.1 0.1 PLEASE. OKAY, SO WE'RE IN COMMERCIAL KITCHEN MAKEUP AIR. THIS SECTION IS MAKEUP AIR TEMPERATURE THAT SAYS HVAC SYSTEMS THAT SERVE THE KITCHEN SPACE SHALL HAVE THE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY NECESSARY FOR THEIR LATENT AND SENSIBLE LOADS THAT ARE INTRODUCED BY THE MAKEUP AIR SUPPLIED TO SUPPLIED TO THE KITCHEN SPACE OR THE MAKEUP AIR SHALL BE CONDITIONED BY DEDICATED SYSTEMS SUCH THAT THE DIFFERENCE IN TEMPERATURE BETWEEN THE MAKEUP AIR SUPPLIED TO THE KITCHEN SPACE AND THE DESIGN SET POINT TEMPERATURE IN THE KITCHEN SPACE IS NOT GREATER THAN 10 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT. SO THIS, UM, THAT THOSE, THOSE, UM, SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS WERE ALREADY INCLUDED. THIS SECTION JUST, UM, REWRITES THAT THE INTENT AND IT CLARIFIES THAT THAT 10 DEGREE DIFFERENTIAL APPLIES TO THE THERMOSTAT SET POINT TEMPERATURE IN THE KITCHEN, NOT JUST WHAT IT HAPPENS TO BE AT ANY GIVEN POINT DURING THE DAY. SO THAT MEANS IF IF THE THERMOSTAT IS SET TO 78 DEGREES, THE MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE OF AIR COMING IN THROUGH THE VENTS, THE MAKEUP AIR TO BE 8 88, WHICH CAN'T, WHICH MEANS YOU WOULD HAVE TO CONDITION THE MAKEUP AIR COMING INTO THE SYSTEM, WHICH IS REALLY EXPENSIVE. THAT IS CURRENTLY REQUIRED. YES. THAT IS WHY WHY ARE WE YES, YES. WELL, IT KIND OF IS. THERE'S A WAY AROUND IT WITH SOMEBODY ELSE CODE, BUT THAT, THAT LITTLE BRING UP THE 21. YOU CAN DO IT WITHOUT, YOU CAN DO HOODS WITHOUT ADDING AIR CONDITIONING, MAKEUP, AIR. YOU CAN'T DO IT BY CODE STEEL. BUT THAT IS A, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE THOUGH, IS THEY'RE GONNA, THEY HAVE TO AIR CONDITION ALL THE OUTSIDE OF THAT IS A MAJOR, MAJOR EXPENSE FOR A RESTAURANT. NOW. I KNOW. AND, AND MY QUESTION IS WHY WE GOOD? WELL AGAIN, THIS IS EVERYTHING. YOUR AIR CONDITIONING YOU'RE PUTTING BACK ON THE ROOF. YEAH, JUST THINK ABOUT THAT. YEAH. WELL THIS IS CHIEF FRIS, SO OKAY. IF YOU, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE CONDITIONING THE AIR IN THE KITCHEN, RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO BE COMFORTABLE FOR THE COOKS, RIGHT? AND YOU SAY YOUR THERMOSTAT, LIKE HE SAID AT 78, YOU WANT THE MAKEUP AIR TO BE CONDITIONED IF YOU'RE, IF YOUR OBJECT OBJECT OR YOUR, YOUR INTENT IS TO COOL THE KITCHEN, YOU DON'T WANT TO BRING IN A HUNDRED DEGREE AIR BECAUSE NOW THE AC IS GONNA BE ON ALL THE TIME. SO WHAT NORMALLY HAPPENS IN KITCHENS IS THAT IT'S NOT 78. IT IS PROBABLY 88 OR 'CAUSE YOU'RE IN THE KITCHEN. SO IF IT'S AT 88 THEN THE OUTDOOR TEMPERATURE WILL BE 98. SO AT THAT POINT IT MIGHT NOT EVEN BE CONDITIONED. YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S THAT'S NOT WHAT IT SAYS IT PLAN. THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SET ON. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'LL SET THE THERMOSTAT AT 78. AT 60. SO, YEAH. WELL, AND BASICALLY WHEN THE KITCHEN, I MEAN OUR EXPERIENCE IN OUR RETAIL STUFF IS WHEN THE KITCHEN IS [00:30:01] OPERATING, THE AIR CONDITION IS RUNNING 24 7 WHILE THAT KITCHEN, BECAUSE THE HEAT LOAD IN THE KITCHEN COMING FROM THE, ALL THE BURNERS AND STUFF. AND SO, YOU KNOW, THE KITCHEN'S PROBABLY 88 DEGREES, BUT THE THERMOSTAT'S ON 60. AND THE WAY THIS SAYS IS THE, THEY PUT THE THERMOSTAT ON 70, YOU NEED 80 DEGREE AIR COMING IN, WHICH MEANS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO CONDITION ALL THE MAKEUP AIR BEFORE IT GOES INTO THEIR REGION. WHICH IS VERY EXPENSIVE. VERY EXPENSIVE. I MEAN, I THINK THAT IS THE, IT ALL SOUNDS GOOD, BUT IT, IT IS GOTTEN VERY EXPENSIVE BY DOING THAT. YOU'RE RAISING BIG COST ON A KITCHEN. I'M TALKING 25, $30,000. SO IS THERE AN APPETITE TO, UM, OFFER OR REQUEST AN AMENDMENT FOR THE AMEND THIS OUT? I THINK MAKING IT A CODE, WE HAVE TO DO IT. IT'S KIND, IT'S SORT OF AN OWNER'S CALL. 'CAUSE IT'S ALL ABOUT HEATING THE COOK, LET'S CALL IT WHAT IT IS. IT'S NOT, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY ENVIRONMENTAL, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY. IT'S ALL ABOUT HEAT, UH, COOLING THE COOK. THAT SHOULD BE AN OWNER'S OPTION, NOT OUR OPTION TO TELL 'EM THEY HAVE TO DO IT AND SPEND AN EXTRA 30 TO $50,000 ON A KITCHEN, IN MY OPINION. SO THE 2021 SAYS THE TEMPERATURE DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN MAKEUP, AIR AND THE AIR IN THE CONDITION SPACE SHALL NOT EXCEED 10 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT, EXCEPT WHERE THE ADDED HEATING AND COOLING LOADS OF THE MAKEUP AIR DO NOT EXCEED THE CAPACITY OF THE HVAC. I FEEL LIKE IT'S STILL, IT STILL IS STATING THAT, THAT THOSE HVAC SYSTEMS THAT SERVE THE KITCHEN SHALL HAVE THE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY, UH, CAPACITY NECESSARY, OR IT SHALL BE CONDITIONED BY DEDICATED SYSTEMS. YOU GOTTA DO IT TWO WAYS. IF YOU, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TEMPERATURE OF THE KITCHEN THE OWNER WANTS. SO YOU EITHER GONNA DO IT WITH SOME OF THE OUTSIDE AIR AND THE REALLY, THE REASON THEY WANT THEY JUST COOLING CAME. I'M TELLING YOU IT CAME FROM THE COOKS BECAUSE THE OUTSIDE AIR TYPICALLY BLOWS RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE HOOD, RIGHT IN FRONT OF WHERE THEY'RE COOKING. SO THEY'RE GETTING HOT AIR BLOWN ON TOP OF THEM THAT GOES RIGHT BACK IN THE HOOD AND GOES OUT. THAT'S WHERE THIS CAME FROM. BUT IT'S JUST AN EXPENSE I THINK THAT WE'RE PUTTING ON PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD BE THE OWNER'S OPTION BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, WE DO SIZE THE KITCHEN UNIT TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE LOAD TO THE KITCHEN. THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE COOK . IT'S, IT'S FRONT, I THINK IT'S, CAN WE TABLE THIS ONE TO THE END AND SEE IF WE CAN MOVE ON AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND FIND OUT HOW MUCH THIS COST TO DO THIS IF THAT'S POSSIBLE. YES. TABLE. ALL RIGHT, WE'LL TABLE WE'LL TABLE 13 AND MOVE ON TO 14. OKAY, ITEM 14, NEW ITEMS WERE ADDED TO 6 0 1 0.5. SO NOW WE'RE IN DUCT SYSTEMS CHAPTER SIX. SO RETURN AIR OPENINGS, RETURN AIR OPENINGS FOR HEATING, VENTILATION, AND AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEMS SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL OF THE FOLLOWING. SO WE ADDED NUMBER EIGHT. UH, RETURN AIR FROM A CLOSET SHALL SERVE ONLY THE CLOSET AND NOT REQUIRE A DEDICATED CLOSET. SUPPLY DUCT. NUMBER NINE, RETURN AIR TAKEN FROM A CLOSET SMALLER THAN 30 SQUARE FEET SHALL REQUIRE THE CLOSET DOOR TO BE UNDERCUT, NOT LESS THAN ONE AND A HALF INCHES, OR HAVE EITHER A LOUVRE DOOR OR, OR AN AIR TRANSFER GRILL EACH WITH A NET AREA, FREE AREA OF NOT LESS THAN 30 SQUARE INCHES. SO THOSE ITEMS WERE ADDED TO COMBAT MOLD GROWTH IN CLOSETS DUE TO HIGHER INTERIOR MOISTURE LOADS. SO THAT ALLOWS A LIMITED AMOUNT OF AIR, UM, ALLOWING A LIMITED AMOUNT OF AIR OF RETURN. AIR PROVIDES A MEANS OF CONTROLLING THAT CLOSET MOISTURE LEVEL, WHICH IS, HAS BEEN CAUSED BY INCREASE IN THERMAL RESISTANCE OVER THE PAST FEW CODE CYCLES. SO IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU HAVE A THREE FOOT BY 10 FOOT CLOSET, YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA UNDERCUT IT. AND YOU REQUIRED TO PUT SUPPLY INTO THE CLOSET? NO, NO, JUST SUCK AIR OUT OF THE CLOSET. JUST RETURN AIR. OKAY. 6 0 2. WE ARE IN PLENUMS NOW. SO THESE NEW SECTION, OR APPEAR TO BE NEW SECTIONS ALL IN BLUE FOR LOCATIONS LIMITED, LIMITED TO A FIRE AREA. FUEL FIRED APPLIANCES, WERE JUST A REWRITE OF THESE ITEMS. NO NEW REQUIREMENTS OR LIMITATIONS WERE [00:35:01] ADDED. SO FOR PLENUMS GENERAL SUPPLY RETURN, EXHAUST RELIEF AND VENTILATION, AIR PLENUM SHALL BE IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE SECTIONS. FUEL FIRED APPLIANCES SHALL NOT BE INSTALLED WITHIN A PLENUM. SO THEN WE MOVE ON TO 6 0 2 0.3. THIS IS ITEM 16 FOR MATERIALS IN PLENUMS. SO MATERIALS WITHIN PLENUMS SHALL BE NON-COMBUSTIBLE OR SHALL BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE REQUIREMENTS OF THESE FOLLOWING SECTIONS. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, UH, MATERIALS EXPOSED WITHIN PLENUMS AND ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLING. SO THAT THAT WAS ALREADY INCLUDED AS AN EXCEPTION. COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS FULLY ENCLOSED WITH WITHIN ONE OF THE FOLLOWING, THOSE WERE ALSO INCLUDED. NUMBER THREE, YOU CAN SEE THAT, UM, THAT THAT APPEARS TO BE NEW, BUT THAT WAS ALSO INCLUDED FOR MATERIALS IN A GROUP H. SO AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL THE EXCEPTIONS. CRYSTAL, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? GOING BACK ORIGINALLY I ASKED IF THIS APPLIED, THIS CODE APPLIED TO ONE AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. NOT HERE IN SAN ANTONIO BECAUSE, OH, NOT IN SAN ANTONIO, CORRECT. BUT IN OTHER PLACES IT COULD. YES. OKAY, THANK YOU. AND SO THIS IS, I MEAN, TYPICALLY WHEN IT'S JUST A REWRITE, WE DON'T INCLUDE IT ON THIS. SO IS THERE ANY ANYTHING MEANINGFUL? NO, THERE WAS NOTHING, UH, NO NEW REQUIREMENTS. THESE WERE ALL, UM, JUST REWRITES. YEP. GOOD. ALRIGHT. SET. 17, PLEASE. I JUST NEEDED TO BE PREPARED, MIKE, IN CASE YOU ASKED FOR THESE. I ALWAYS ASK ABOUT THE YOU'RE RIGHT. I APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY, MOVING ON. ITEM 17, WE ARE IN 6 0 7 NOW FOR DUCT AND TRANSFER OPENINGS. SO 6 0 7 0.2 0.4 AND 6 0 7 0.241. MECHANICAL, ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING CONTROLS. IF YOU WERE HERE FOR PLUMBING, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ALREADY, THAT THOSE CONTROLS SHALL NOT BE INSTALLED IN DUCT SYSTEMS. THERE IS AN EXCEPTION FOR THAT. UH, AND THOSE CONTROLS ARE NOT, NOT PERMITTED TO BE INSTALLED THROUGH DAMPERS. WE'RE TALKING WIRES. . OKAY. A LOT OF, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE COMMON SENSE, SO WE'RE GONNA ADD IT TO THE CODE. ALL RIGHT, I THINK WE'RE GOOD. AND MOVE TO, UH, 18. ALL RIGHT. WE SKIP CHAPTER SEVEN, COMBUSTION AIRS. REALLY JUST TWO PARAGRAPHS, NO CHANGES TO CHAPTER EIGHT FOR CHIMNEYS AND VENTS. CHAPTER NINE, SPECIFIC APPLIANCES, FIREPLACES, AND SOLID FUEL BURNING EQUIPMENT. HAD A COUPLE OF CHANGES, SO LIKE IN INCINERATORS AND INFRARED RADIANT HEATERS, NOTHING WE FELT WAS SIGNIFICANT FOR YOU GUYS. UH, SO NOW WE'RE IN CHAPTER 10 FOR BOILERS, WATER HEATERS AND PRESSURE VESSELS. SO ITEM 18 AT WATER HEATER PAN REQUIRED. SO WE SAW THIS IN THE PLUMBING CODE AND NOW THEY, UM, THEY ALLOW THE PLASTIC PAN, SO WHERE STORAGE TYPE WATER HEATER OR WATER HEATER STORAGE TANK IS INSTALLED IN LOCATION WHERE WATER LEAKAGE FROM THE TANK WILL CAUSE DAMAGE. THE TANK SHALL BE INSTALLED IN A PAN CONSTRUCTED OF ONE OF THE FOLLOWING. THIS KIND OF BROUGHT THIS OVER FROM THE PLUMBING CODE. SO BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING ANYWHERE THAT IT SITS IN WITH AN AIR CONDITIONER OR SOMETHING, THEY, OR PRETTY MUCH ANYWHERE, RIGHT? THE WATER HEATER? YEAH, BASICALLY, YEAH. I MEAN, ARE THERE LOCATIONS WHERE A PAN WOULDN'T, YOU DON'T INSTALL A PAN? YEAH, THE, THE MANUFACTURERS NOW ARE REQUIRING IT OR, OR NOT REQUIRING IT, RECOMMENDING. SO THAT SUPERSEDES COULD, IF THAT WATER HEATER BREAKS, IT'S GONNA LEAK ALL OVER ANYWAY. LITTLE PAN AIN'T HOLDING NOTHING. , YEAH, IT SAYS PANNED. IT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE DRAIN. ALL RIGHT, ITEM, ITEM 19. THIS WAS A REVISION TO 10 0 6 0.6. SO WE'RE IN SAFETY AND PRESSURE RELIEF VALVES AND CONTROLS. SO SAFETY AND RELIEF VALVE DISCHARGE PIPE SHALL BE OF RIGID PIPE THAT IS APPROVED FOR THE TEMPERATURE OF THE SYSTEM. THAT PRESSURE STEAM SAFETY VALVES SHALL BE VENTED TO THE OUTSIDE OF THE STRUCTURE. THE DISCHARGE PIPING SERVING PRESSURE RELIEF VALVES, TEMPERATURE RELIEF VALVES IN COMBINATION OF SUCH VALVES. SHALL THIS LIST OF NOW 13 OR THIS [00:40:01] LIST OF 13 ITEMS? SO ITEM SEVEN WAS REVISED. IT SAYS DISCHARGE DETERMINATION POINT THAT IS READILY VISIBLE AND OBSERVABLE BY THE BUILDING OCCUPANTS. SO WE, IT ADDED IF THE DISCHARGE TERMINATION POINT IS NOT READILY VISIBLE, UH, A LEAK DETECTION MONITORING DEVICE WITH ALARM IS REQUIRED. SO WE'VE ALWAYS SAID IT SHALL BE VISIBLE AND OBSERVABLE. OBSERVABLE. BUT NOW IF YOU CAN'T DO THAT, YOU HAVE AN OPTION. SO CAN YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE WHERE IT WOULDN'T BE VISIBLE OR OBSERVE? IN OTHER WORDS IS IF IT'S ANYWHERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING, IS IT VISIBLE AND OBSERVABLE? NOT READILY. SO WHERE YOU TYPICALLY HAVE ISSUES LIKE THIS, YOU PUT A SURGERY CENTER SOMEWHERE IN THE BUILDING THAT WHERE YOU WALK INTO IT IS A LOT OF PEOPLE. SO THEY DEFINITELY, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T GET IT WHERE EVERYBODY'S GONNA SEE IT. UM, AND NUMBER 13 LOOKS LIKE A CHANGE. UH, IT REFERENCES, IT REFERENCED A TABLE IN THE IPC FOR THESE PIPING MATERIALS. UM, AND SO NOW JUST REFERENCES A SECTION IN THIS CODE FOR HYDRONIC PIPING, WHICH IS ALMOST IDENTICAL MATERIALS. ALL RIGHT, CHAPTER 11. WE ARE DID YOU HAVE, GO AHEAD. A QUICK QUESTION CRYSTAL. SO A LOT OF THIS IS, YOU KNOW, OVER FROM THE PLUMBING CODE. I MEAN, I ASSUME THAT'S MOSTLY DESIGNED FOR MUNICIPALITIES THAT MIGHT NOT ADOPT THE IPC. I MEAN IT SEEMS LIKE REDUNDANT THAT, THAT WE GO THROUGH THESE. IS THERE ANY REASON IF, SINCE WE ARE A MUNICIPALITY THAT ADOPTS THE IPC THAT WE NEED TO ADOPT THESE DUPLICATE CHAPTERS? IS IT JUST TO, SO THAT YEAH. WHAT WHAT WOULD BE THE, WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE? YEAH, WHAT UM, WATER HEATERS IN THE MECHANICAL CODE AND PLUMBING CODE. WELL, I MEAN THIS, THIS IS ALSO RELATES TO LIKE CHILLERS AND COOLING TOWERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO SOMETIMES THEY PULL A TRAY PERMIT, WHICH IS JUST A MECHANICAL, UH, IT HAS TO BE INCLUDED IN THE IMC BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A PLUMBING, UH, PERMIT, YOU KNOW, TO DO THOSE CONNECTIONS OR TO DO THIS. SO WE WILL HAVE TO INSPECT THIS AT THAT TIME. I THINK THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF WHY THEY'RE PUTTING IT ON THE IMC. ALSO, I'M SURE THAT THE, ANY CHANGES IN THE IPC MATCH YOU, LIKE WE'VE DONE THE, THE CHECKING THAT EVERYTHING IS STILL OKAY. CHAPTER 11, REFRIGERATION 1101. UH, I'M SORRY, CRYSTAL, MAYBE, I GUESS I'M REALLY CONFUSED. I MEAN, YES, THIS IS REALLY INCLUDED IN THE PLUMBING CODE, BUT YET IT'S MUCH MORE DEFINITIVE THAN THIS. THIS JUST SAYS JUST DISCHARGE IT, IT DOESN'T TELL YOU IN THE PLUMBING CODE WHERE IT TELLS YOU HEIGHT AND YOU KNOW, AND EVERYTHING FROM THE GROUND. SO YOU HAVE THAT PROTECTION. IF WE'RE GONNA ALLOW HVAC TO DO IT, NO, BUT GO BACK AND GET, DON'T BE ADDING MORE STUFF TO US. 10. OH, IT WAS ALREADY WRITTEN. IT'S NOT A CHANGE. CORRECT. THAT'S NOT A CHANGE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ITEM 20. THESE WERE REVISIONS TO THE SECTION FOR REFRIGERANTS OTHER THAN AMMONIA AND AMMONIA REFRIGERANT. SO THIS PROPOSAL BREAKS DOWN WHEN TO USE EACH OF THE REFERENCES. IMC DOES NOT REGULATE AMMONIA. UM, SO IT REFERENCES BACK TO THE IIAR UH, SYSTEMS USING CARBON DIOXIDE AS A REFRIGERANT WILL SEE POSSIBLY A COST INCREASE DUE TO THE NEW STANDARD THAT NEW IIAR STANDARD, WHICH IS PUT IN PLACE TO ASSURE THESE SYSTEMS ARE PROPERLY REGULATED. ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS? QUESTIONS? UM, JUST THIS SEEMS LIKE SINCE WE'RE TALKING REFRIGER, REFRIGERATIONS, ARE WE TALKING REFRIGERANTS YET? REFRIGERANTS. SO DO WE EVER TALK ABOUT THE, UH, THE EVER CHANGING, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY THIS. SO YOU'RE GETTING AHEAD, WE'RE GETTING THERE. THE A TWO L, WE'RE THERE. YEAH. THANK YOU. IT IT'S COMING DOWN THE ROAD. I MEAN DOWN THE LIST NUMBER, NUMBER 21. SO THIS IS [00:45:01] A NEW SECTION, UH, THE TABLE AHEAD OF IT, THE 1101 0.2 WAS ADDED IN THE LAST CODE CYCLE TO REFERENCE ALL THE APPROPRIATE STANDARDS FOR FACTORY BUILT EQUIPMENT. UH, THE LIST INCLUDES STANDARDS THAT REGULATE THE USE OF GROUP A TWO A, TWO L, A TWO A THREE AND B ONE REFRIGERANTS. SO THIS SECTION WAS ADDED FOR THOSE HIGH PROBABILITY EQUIPMENTS, UM, IN REFERENCES THAT YOU ALL STANDARDS THAT THAT EQUIPMENT HAS TO COMPLY WITH SUPER SIMPLE CHANGE. AGAIN, JUST REFERENCING A STANDARD, BUT Y'ALL AREN'T REALLY EXPECTING LIKE A, YOU BUY A REFRIGERATOR FOR A RESTAURANT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YOU'RE NOT REALLY INSPECTING THAT AS COMPLYING WITH ANY STANDARD, RIGHT? NO. 22 PLEASE. SO THIS SECTION 1101 0.7 WAS REVISED CHANGING REFRIGERANT. THIS PROPOSAL PROVIDES CLARIFICATION TO ADDRESS THE CHANGE OF REFRIGERANT, BUT DOES NOT INTRODUCE ANY ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS THAT WOULD IMPACT THE COST. IS THIS ALL NEW OR IS THIS A REWRITE? IT'S A, LIKE HOW MUCH OF THIS WAS ALREADY EXISTING? IT'S A REWRITE. IS THIS APPLICABLE TO, UM, IF YOU HAVE LIKE A FOUR 10 A SYSTEM AND YOU'RE PUTTING ONE OF THE SUBSTITUTE REFRIGERANTS, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SUBSTITUTE? OR I LIKE A YEAH, WELL, YEAH, YEAH. JUST THE NEW PHASE OUT OF EQUIPMENT OF NEW REFRIGERANTS COMING AND THEN EVEN R 22 TO FOUR 10 A. YEAH, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN WITH THIS CODE? I THINK WE'LL HAVE TO KINDA LOOK AT THE TYPE OF REFRIGERANT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. SO THIS, WHEN WE WENT THROUGH THIS KIND OF JUST RESONATED LAID, THERE'S HIGHER LEVELS OF, OF, UH, CONCERNS WITH THE DIFFERENT KIND OF GASES. SOME ARE MORE COMBUSTIBLE, MORE CONCERNING THAN OTHERS. AND SO THEY SET SOME REGULATION ON LIKE WHEN YOU COULD INSTALL THOSE. AND THAT'S, I THINK IN A LITTLE BIT LATER CHAPTER. BUT I THINK IT KIND OF GOES BACK TO THIS OF LIKE IF YOU HAVE LIKE CERTAIN, I THINK IT WAS LIKE TWO A AND TWO B, UH, IT'S ON THE TABLE. LIKE THOSE ARE CAN BE USED WHEN YOU'RE GONNA BE AROUND ACTUAL OCCUPIED AREAS. SO I THINK IT WOULD LIMIT 'EM WHAT YOU CAN USE, UH, BASED OFF THAT TABLE. SO IF YOU'RE CHANGING OUT A SYSTEM WHERE YOU KNOW THE REFRIGERANT LINES AND EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE AROUND AN OCCUPIABLE AREA, THEN YOU'RE LIMITED ON WHAT TYPE OF REFRIGERANT YOU COULD USE. BUT I THINK THAT'LL BE DETERMINED ON THE OTHER SECTION IN THAT TABLE BECAUSE WHEN THEY PHASED OUT R 22, YOU KNOW, THEY CAME OUT WITH ALL THESE ALTERNATIVE VARIANCE SO THAT YOU KEEP THE SYSTEMS ALIVE. AND WOULD I NEED TO HAVE AN EVALUATION OF THE SYSTEM BY A REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL IN ORDER TO DO THAT? YES. CAN WE ADD AN EXEMPTION TO THIS THAT SAYS, CAN I GET MY, I'D LIKE TO GET MY ANSWER QUESTION. PERFECT ANSWER. CAN WE FOLLOW BACK ON YOUR QUESTION THEN? I'M SORRY. I MIGHT HAVE GET AHEAD OF MYSELF ON THIS. THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE OTHER CONCERNS WERE WITH THE REFRIGERANTS. WHAT WAS THE QUESTION ONE MORE TIME, MIKE? LIKE WHEN YOU HAD, BACK WHEN WE WERE PHASING OUT R 22 A AND WE WOULD PUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE SUBSTITUTES THAT THE MANUFACTURERS CAME UP WITH IN BY THE, WHAT? I HAD HAD TO HAVE A REGISTERED DESIGN PROFESSIONAL APPROVE THAT FOR ME TO DO THAT IN THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN. SO WE HAVE THE APPROVED BY CODE OFFICIAL. UH, SO THEN, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT NEED TO LOOK AT IT. UH, I'M NOT SURE THE INDUSTRY ON THAT SIDE, IS THERE A WHOLE LOT OF THIS WHERE WE'LL SEE LIKE, OKAY, IS IT UNIFORM FOR THE NEXT LIKE SIX MONTHS? WE SEE THIS PRODUCT BEING PRETTY CONSISTENT, THE USED OUT THERE AND WE CAN WORK WITH THE ORGANIZATIONS OUT, UH, YOU KNOW, PHCC AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, THEY KIND OF PRESENT THAT TO US AND SAY, LOOK, HERE'S KIND OF WHAT'S OUT THERE IN THE MARKET RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA BE UNDER THIS CODE FOR THE NEXT TWO AND A HALF TO THREE YEARS AND WE CAN KIND OF SEE, OKAY, HERE'S WHAT'S ON THE MARKET. WOULD Y'ALL APPROVE THIS? AND WE CAN HOPEFULLY DO KIND OF A, A UNIFORM APPROVAL, UH, FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT VERSUS, UH, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE A DAY, YOU KNOW, LIKE, HEY, I, I GOTTA FIX SOME REFRIGERANT IN MY APARTMENT COMPLEX. DO I NEED TO STOP WHAT I'M DOING, GET APPROVAL FROM THE A HJ BEFORE I DO THAT? UH, THE GOAL WILL, I THINK WOULD PROBABLY BE USING 2.3 THE APPROVED BY THE BUILDING, UH, CODE OFFICIAL. UH, BUT UNIFORMLY, YEAH, BUT THAT MEANS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO KEEP UP WITH IT EVERY MINUTE AND MAKE THE APPROVAL. I, I THINK WHAT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE IS TO ADD A 2.4 AND SAY, YOU KNOW, IT IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, BY THE PREON MANUFACTURER THAT THIS IS A REPLACEMENT PREON FOR THIS KIND OF THING, AND THEN YOU'RE OKAY. BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, [00:50:01] IN R 22, I THINK THERE WERE TWO OR THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE DIFFERENT VERSIONS AS THEY WENT ON AS TO WHAT WAS OKAY TO, AND WE'RE STILL, YOU KNOW, PUMPING THAT FREON INTO R 22 SYSTEMS. WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT. THERE IS NO POINT TO, Y'ALL CAN'T REGULATE IT, SO THERE'S NO REASON TO EVEN HAVE IT IN THERE. IT'S JUST A WASTE. OKAY. SO TO CLARIFY THIS, THE NEW A TWO L REFRIGERATOR IS MANDATED, UM, CANNOT BE MIXED WITH 14 A. SO IF THEY COME OUT WITH A REPLACEMENT FOR 14 A, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE WHAT THEY DID WITH R 22, WHERE THEY WENT TO THE DIFFERENT DEALS, RIGHT? I THINK THE INTENT OF THIS PARTICULAR SECTION IS WHEN YOU HAVE, UH, MANUFACTURER FACTORIES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHERE THERE'S HUGE, HUGE, UH, DEALS WHERE THEY'RE GONNA CHANGE THE FREON. THEY DON'T WANT CHANGING OUT THE EQUIPMENT IS GONNA BE TOO DIFFICULT. SO THEY'RE GONNA RETROFIT THE EQUIPMENT THAT THEY HAVE AND ADD NEW FREON. BUT, AND, AND WHAT THE CODE SECTION SAYS, IF YOU'RE GONNA USE THE NEW FREON, WHICH IS, IT FALLS INTO A DIFFERENT, UH, CHARACTERISTIC. YOU HAVE TO MEET THE NEW CODES. IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU'RE GONNA USE A TWO L, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT MORE FLAMMABLE THAN WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE, THEN YOU MAY HAVE TO RUN YOUR LINES MAY HAVE TO BE ON, YOU KNOW, FIRE READY SHAFT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE DO NOT REGULATE THAT ALL, ALL EVERYTHING THAT IT SAYS RIGHT THERE, WE DON'T KNOW WHEN YOU CHANGED IT OUT OR IF YOU TOP IT OFF OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THERE'S NO WAY TO REGULATE THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, ON RESIDENTIAL HOMES. I MEAN, OR APARTMENTS. YOU KNOW, YOU TOP IT OFF WITH MP 99, YOU, YOU, WE CAN'T, WE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO PUT A STICKER FOLLOW THAT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW. WE WE'RE NOT CHECKING THAT. SO I, I THINK THE INTENT IS LIKE, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING HUGE, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, A BILL MILLER'S OR SOMEONE WHERE YOU HAVE A LOT OF REFRIGERANT AND YOU'RE GONNA SWITCH IT TO ANOTHER ONE THAT I THINK THE INTENT IS THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA SWITCH IT TO THIS MORE FLAMMABLE, THEN YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO MEET THE NEW REQUIREMENTS. I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. THIS JUST SEEMS LIKE A WASTED SECTION FOR ME. BUT MANUFACTURER, Y'ALL HAVE NO, NO, Y'ALL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MANUFACTURER. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WARRANTY. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE, YOU CAN'T REGULATE THIS. SO WHY EVEN HAVE IT IN THERE? I, I THINK IT'S GOING BACK TO WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT AND WE'LL GET TO THAT NEXT SECTION. I THINK THIS KIND OF GETS IN FRONT OF THAT. BUT WHAT WE'RE WATCHING OUT FOR IS YOU'RE TAKING A SYSTEM THAT DOESN'T HAVE A FLAMMABLE REFRIGERANT IN IT, POTENTIALLY ADDING A FLAMMABLE REFRIGERANT IN IT. AND THERE ARE NOW NEW GUIDELINES WITHIN THE CODE FOR IF YOU'RE USING A FLAMMABLE REFRIGERANT OF WHEN YOU CAN DO THAT. IS IT NEAR OCCUPIABLE AREAS? IS IT PENETRATING MULTIPLE FLOORS AND DOES IT NOT HAVE A SHAFT? THOSE ARE SCENARIOS YOU CAN'T REGULATE THAT. THAT'S WHAT OUR NEW REFRIGERANT'S GONNA HAVE PROPANE IN IT. SO THIS IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, I'M SURE. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. I MEAN, MANUFACTURER, YOU, YOU, THEY'RE GONNA TELL YOU THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY WARRANTY ON THIS EQUIPMENT. THERE'S NO WAY FOR Y'ALL TO REGULATE IT. SO WHY WOULD WE STICK IT IN THERE? THIS IS WHERE WE'RE MAKING RULES. THIS DON'T MAKE SENSE. IT JUST PUTS MORE ON YOU GUYS TO KIND OF THINK YOU'RE IN CHARGE OF IT, BUT YOU, YOU CAN'T REGULATE IT. YOU, YOU CANNOT REGULATE THIS. BUT WHAT WE'RE REGULATING IS YOU CAN'T HAVE A FLAMMABLE MIXTURE WHEN IT DOESN'T MEET THE CURRENT CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR SEPARATION. THAT'S WHY WE AIR CONDITIONING LICENSE. IF YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE NOT VERY SMART. YOU STILL CAN'T REGULATE THAT. I MEAN, THE MANUFACTURER'S GONNA TELL YOU, YOU CAN'T PUT THIS REFRIGERANT WITH THIS. AND IT'S JUST ABOUT CLEANING IT UP IS ALL IT IS. BUT YOU CAN'T REGULATE IT. SO WHY, MAN, YOU MAKE A LOT OF RULES FOR SOMETHING WE CAN'T DO NOTHING ABOUT. WAIT, OKAY, SO ARE YOU, ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THERE'S, YOU CAN'T THINK OF A SCENARIO WHERE YOU WOULD ADD THE FLAMMABLE MIXTURE IN AN EXISTING SYSTEM? NOT IF YOU'RE IN THE AIR CONDITIONED BUSINESS AND YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. NO, YET WE HAVE A LICENSE. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ONE. OKAY. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU CAN'T MIX. SO DO YOU HAVE OH, WELL, EXACTLY. OKAY. AND SO THAT, THAT'S WHERE I THINK WE CAN COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE. WORK WITH THE NEW, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU AND THIS PROPANE, THE NEW PROPANE REFRIGERANT'S, A VERY SMALL AMOUNT. WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING SOME BIG MEASURES FOR A SMALL AMOUNT OF PROPANE THAT MEANS NOTHING, UH, WITH ALL THESE SAFETIES AND STUFF. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? EQUIPMENT, THAT IT'S GONNA, WE TALK ABOUT INFLATION, WE TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING TO EVERY SINGLE HOME AND EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS. IT'S GONNA COST ABOUT 3,500 BUCKS PER SYSTEM TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING FOR THESE REGULATIONS. FOR THAT LITTLE BIT OF PROPANE THAT'S IN THAT REFRIGERATOR, WE'RE NEARLY NOT ADDRESSING WHAT THE REAL PROBLEM, WE WE'RE HAULING THAT AROUND IN TRUCKS NOW . SO, SO IT SOUNDS, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE A OPINION TO AMEND OUT NUMBER 22 11 0 1 0.7. IS THERE, UM, SOME SUPPORT FOR THAT WITH THE REST OF THE COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE? AND, AND I, YOU KNOW, I, I TEND TO AGREE. I I, I THINK THERE WE NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION AND THERE'S LIMIT AS TO WHAT WE CAN DO. BUT UM, [00:55:01] IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. IT'S OUTRAGEOUS WHAT IS BEING DONE TO THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF COSTS INCREASES, UM, FOR, FOR THESE SYSTEMS AND THE DANGER AND ALL THE, THE SIDE EFFECTS 'CAUSE OF WHATEVER MINIMAL, SOMETIME THE NEXT A HUNDRED YEARS ETHEREAL, UM, ENVIRONMENTAL, UM, BENEFIT MIGHT ACCRUE. UH, BUT THE, THE COSTS ARE SIGNIFICANT AND THEY'RE NOW, AND WHATEVER WE CAN DO, I THINK WE NEED TO TRY AND DO. UM, AND THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO GET AT, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT REFRIGERANTS SOON? BUT IT, IT'S OUTRAGEOUS AND WE, WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO EVERYTHING FOR THE CITIZENS OF THE CITY THAT WE CAN. I THINK THESE LITTLE BITTY THINGS ARE JUST GOING UP AND UP AND UP. I MEAN, I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, EQUIPMENT ALONE JUST FOR THIS NEW REFRIGERANT IS GONNA GO UP 40%. THAT, THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY FOR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T REALLY DO MUCH. AND, AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE WE PUT THESE LAWS WHEN WE PUT THESE CODES IN PLACE AND NO ONE EVER PUTS A PENCIL TO WHAT IT IS. THIS IS, THIS NEW REFRIGERANT IS GONNA BE ABSOLUTELY DEV DEVASTATING TO OUR AIR CONDITIONERS FOR WHAT? IT'S GONNA RAISE THE COST, COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS AND ON RESIDENTIAL. SO WHEN YOU SPEND, YOU KNOW, 15,000 REPLACE YOUR UNIT, YOU'RE GONNA SPEND 25. THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY. AND THAT MEANS SOMETHING. AND I DON'T THINK WE GAIN NOTHING FROM IT. OKAY, SO LET ME, LET ME, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT, BUT THE, THE NEW REFRIGERATOR IN E TWO L, UM, THERE'S NO RESTRICTIONS ON THE IRC. SO THE WAY YOU'RE DOING BUSINESS RIGHT NOW, ON, ON, ON RESIDENTIAL, YOU, YOU CAN CONTINUE DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING. THE ONLY THING IT'S GOING TO AFFECT IS THE AMOUNT OF REFRIGERANT IF YOU DO AN APARTMENT AND HOW YOU RUN YOUR COPPER ON THE THIRD OR FOURTH LEVEL. AND AGAIN, IT'S A, IT'S A TABLE. IT'S A TABLE AND IF, IF, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU DESIGN IT, BUT MOST OF 'EM, THE WAY THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT GONNA AFFECT ANYTHING. THE ONLY THING IS, IS WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING, YOU KNOW, PENTHOUSES FIVE TON UNITS UP ON THE FIFTH FLOOR AND YOU'RE RUNNING ALL YOUR COPPER THROUGH ONE PLACE. AND SO AT THAT POINT ON A COMMERCIAL SIDE, IT MIGHT HAVE, AND IT CAN BE REDESIGNED TO WHERE YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN INSTEAD OF RUNNING THE COPPER THROUGH THE WALL, YOU'RE GONNA RUN IT THROUGH THE OUTSIDE OF THE WALL AND THAT'S IT. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S SOME COMMERCIAL APARTMENT TYPE LOOKING THING, YOU KNOW, BUT RESIDENTIAL IS NOT GONNA AFFECT ANYTHING THE WAY YOU'RE DOING IT NOW, YOU CAN CONTINUE DOING IT. THIS RIGHT HERE, WHAT THE INTENT IS FOR MANUFACTURE LIKE HEB THAT HAS TONS OF, YOU KNOW, REFRIGERANT GOING THROUGH AN EXISTING SYSTEM FOR THEIR WAREHOUSES AND THEY'RE GONNA CHANGE IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO USE 14 A AND THEY WANT TO GO TO THE NEW. AND SO NOW THIS IS SAYING, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT, THEN YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE APPROVE THEY CHANGE TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOT A SAFETY ISSUE WITH THE NEW REFRIGERANT. THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T, BUT YOU CAN'T USE THE NEW REFRIGERANT AND OLD EQUIPMENT. WELL YOU CAN'T, BUT WHAT HE'S SAYING, BUT SEE, THAT CAUSES AN ISSUE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING NOW YOU, YOU CAN USE THE SAME PIPE, YOU JUST GOTTA CLEAN IT UP. YOU JUST, BUT YOU CAN'T MIX REFRIGERATOR. THAT'S IN R 22 TO FOUR 10 A. NOW YOU CAN'T MIX REFRIGERANT. NO, I KNOW THAT ONLY HAVE SOME, BUT THIS IS WHEN THE TOTAL CHANGING, CHANGING REFRIGERANT AND NOT MIX IN, NOT TOPPING OFF, IS CHANGING THE ENTIRE SYSTEM FROM 14 A TO WHATEVER THE NEW REFRIGERANT IS. YOU CAN'T, CHA MY UNDERSTANDING IS, IS THE OLD EQUIPMENT WILL NOT WORK WITH THE NEW FREEDOM. THERE'S, THAT'S EXACTLY, THAT'S CORRECT. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT'S CORRECT. YES. SO IN OTHER WORDS, AT AT SOME POINT, IF I'M CHANGING REFRIGERANT TO THE PROPANE DEAL, I NEED A NEW CONDENSER, NEW AIR HANDLER, EVERYTHING'S GOOD FOR US, BAD FOR THE CITIZENS. AM I CORRECT? YES. OKAY. YEAH, BUT THIS IS NOT REFERENCE A TWO L THIS IS ANY OTHER TOUGHER REFRIGERATOR. SO IF I, WHAT THIS SAYS IS IF I WANT TO CHANGE MY REFRIGERANT FROM R 22 TO THE, THE REPLACEMENT FREON THAT THE FREON INDUSTRY SAYS IS THE REPLACEMENT FON THERE, I HAVE TO EITHER GET PERMISSION FROM YOU HIRE AN ENGINEER TO SAY IT'S OKAY. THERE IS NO ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER THAT'S GONNA SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING. I THINK Y'ALL THINK YOUR INTENT FROM WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT CHASES. CORRECT. WERE A LOT OF REFRIGERANT PIPES GOING UP EITHER IN A CHASE OR THE GROUND. THAT'S, IF THEY CHANGE THAT TO THE NEW REFRIGERANT, THAT'S WHERE THIS IS COMING IN INTO EFFECT, WHATEVER THE REFRIGERANT IS, DEPENDING ON THE TABLE WHERE IT FALLS A TWO L OR ANY OF THE OTHER REFRIGERANTS, DEPENDING IF IT'S CONSIDERED FLAMMABLE, HIGHLY FLAMMABLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO THIS RIGHT HERE, TO ME IT, THE INTENT IS FOR LARGE EQUIPMENT THAT CAN'T BE SWITCHED OVER. I'M NOT SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, 14 A CAN BE USED WITH A TWO L THAT'S A RESIDENTIAL ISSUE. BUT I THINK WHAT THIS IS SAYING IS THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA, BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LARGE AMOUNTS OF REFRIGERANT. WELL I, I LOOK AT, I LOOK AT MULTIFAMILIES RESIDENTIAL, BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING RESIDENTIALS BY ITSELF AND THEN YOU GOT MULTIFAMILY MULTIFAMILIES WHERE THIS IS A PROBLEM. 'CAUSE ALL THEIR COPPER TYPICALLY [01:00:01] GOES UP IN THE SAME SPOT. YEAH, A LOT OF IT GOES, YOU KNOW, FOR THE, FROM THE LOWER FLOORS. AND YOU'RE TRULY NOT ASKING A MULTIFAMILY THAT HAD, THAT IS MANDATED TO SWITCH TO THE PROPANE FREON WHEN THEY REPLACE THEIR EQUIPMENT. 'CAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU CAN DO TO GO BACK IN AND TEAR OUT EVERYTHING ALL THE WAY BACK DOWN TO THE FIRST FLOOR WHEN THE AIR CONDITIONER'S ON THE ROOF TO GO, YOU KNOW, MESS WITH 55 UNITS TO GET ONE COPPER LINE UP TO THE ROOF. WHY I DON'T UNDER THAT, I DON'T GET RIGHT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING. I DON'T THINK HE'S SAYING REPLACE ANYTHING. I THINK HE'S JUST TALKING ABOUT REFRIGERANT CHANGE. BUT I, I JUST THINK IT'S A THING Y'ALL CAN'T REGULATE. I DON'T KNOW WHY WE PUT IT IN THERE. IT'S, IT'S LET LET THE MANUFACTURERS HANDLE, HANDLE THIS WITH THE, WITH THE AIR CONDITIONING GUYS. 'CAUSE THE EQUIPMENT'S NOT GONNA WORK. UM, NO ONE HAS PROVED THAT THIS NEW PROPANE, THIS NEW REFRIGERANT, ALL THESE RESTRICTIONS WE'RE PUTTING ON EQUIPMENT THAT WE'RE GONNA BE PAYING FOR, NO ONE KNOWS WHAT THAT OUTCOME IS. SO WE'RE MAKING ALL THESE ASSUMPTIONS AND MAKING CODE, JUST LIKE THE EQUIPMENT GUYS, THERE'S A SENSOR ON THESE UNITS GONNA, THAT'S MY COST IS $900 AND WE'RE, IF YOU AIR CONDITIONING GOES OUT AT YOUR HOUSE NOW WITH THIS NEW REFRIGERANT, I CAN'T FILL IT UP. I CAN'T GET YOU GOING. YOU GOTTA FIX IT BEFORE YOU CAN GET IT GOING. PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THIS AND WE'RE MAKING ALL THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT CONSUMERS DON'T KNOW. IT'S GONNA COST THEM A FORTUNE WITH THIS NEW REFRIGERANT. SO, UM, LET'S DO THIS. LET'S, IT'S UH, FIVE AFTER 10 AND FOR THE MOST OF Y'ALL HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A FULL HOUR. I HAVEN'T. UM, BUT WE'LL TAKE, WE'LL TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK. UH, WE'LL COME BACK AT 10 15. UM, AND UM, YEAH, SO WE'LL ADJOURN FOR 10 MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. SO IT'S 10 16, WE'RE GONNA COME BACK TO ORDER. WE'VE BEEN IN THE, UM, DURING THE BREAK WE STARTED HAVING SOME UNOFFICIAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT 1101 0.7. SO WE WANTED TO GET BACK ON THE RECORD SINCE WE KIND OF STUMBLED INTO AN ACCIDENTAL QUORUM WHILE WE WERE HAVING THAT, UH, CONVERSATION. UM, SO I THINK THIS IS, THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE ARE RIGHT NOW. AND THEN IF Y'ALL KIND OF DISAGREE, LET ME KNOW. I THINK, UM, DURING THE BREAK WE HAD 1101 0.7, THE 2021 VERSION PUT UP ON THE SCREEN AND THERE SEEMS TO BE CONSENSUS, UH, FOR AN APPETITE TO MAKE AN, YOU KNOW, OFFER AN AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 10 THAT TAKES 1101 0.7 AND JUST REINSERT THE 2021 LANGUAGE. UM, IF I MISUNDERSTAND THAT CONSENSUS, PLEASE SOMEBODY PLEASE SPEAK UP OR IF THAT, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE CITY'S PER, PER UH, SIDE OF THAT. I MEAN DEFINITELY I THINK WE, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AND, AND TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THIS SECTION ONLY TALKS ABOUT THE A ONE THEN IT ALSO SAYS IF YOU FALL OUTSIDE THE A ONE, THEN YOU GOTTA GET THE BUILDING OFFICIALS APPROVAL, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM. SO EVEN GOING BACK TO THIS, I DON'T THINK WOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION. 'CAUSE THE REASON OF THE BIG CHANGE IS WE NOW HAVE THE NEW TABLE WITH A LOT DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS AND THOSE CLASSIFICATIONS KIND OF SET DIFFERENT BOUNDARIES OF WHEN IT'S APPROVED, WHEN IT'S NOT APPROVED. UM, SO I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THE INTENT, UM, OR LET'S, LET ME DIGEST THROUGH THE INTENT REAL QUICKLY SO WE CAN MAYBE LOOK AT SOME PROPOSED AMENDMENTS AND BRING THAT BACK TO THE SUBCOMMITTEE. UM, OUTSIDE OF A THREE STORY APARTMENT COMPLEX WHERE THEY'VE PROBABLY RUN THE COPPER INSIDE A WALL WITHOUT A CHASE. IS THERE ANY OTHER SCENARIOS THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF CONCERNS WITH THIS BEYOND, BECAUSE I CRYSTAL, I'M SORRY, CAN YOU BRING UP THE OTHER SECTION? 'CAUSE I, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE KIND OF PUT THAT APPROVAL SECTION AND GIVE THAT RESOLVE. SO LOOKING AT TWO GO AHEAD MIKE. HOW ABOUT WE DO THIS? HOW ABOUT WE TABLE THIS ITEM AND GIVE YOU ALL SOME TIME TO, I MEAN, YOU'VE KIND OF HEARD THE CONVERSATION, YOU KIND OF KNOW WHAT, WHAT OUR CONCERN IS. OVERREGULATION, I MEAN YOU SAY OUTSIDE OF APARTMENTS, BUT APARTMENTS IS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OUR CITIZENS, YOU KNOW, THAT. SO IT'S A BIG IMPACT. UM, AND NOT JUST BECAUSE THAT'S MY BUSINESS, BUT I MEAN IT, IT IS JUST, YOU KNOW, OBJECTIVELY, UM, A BIG IMPACT TO THE CITY. UM, SO JUST FOR THE SAKE OF MOVING ON, I MEAN, AND IF YOU WANT TO GET SOME MORE, IF YOU WANT SOME MORE CLARIFICATION FROM THE COMMITTEE ON WHAT THE CONCERNS ARE, WE CAN, WE CAN, WE CAN CONTINUE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION. BUT I THINK MAYBE FOR TODAY WE'LL TABLE THIS AND GIVE YOU, GIVE THE CITY SOME TIME TO KIND OF DIGEST AND REBUT SOME OF WHAT WE DID. YEAH, SOUNDS GOOD. BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST TWO, IT'S NUMBER FOUR, TWO, IT'S PROBABLY A BIGGER ONE. WELL, EXACTLY. THAT'S KINDA THE ONLY CLARIFICATION I WANTED TO GET WAS CAN WE ASSUME THAT TWO IS TAKEN CARE OF? 'CAUSE WHEN I WAS, UH, DURING THE BREAK WE WERE TALKING WITH JEFF, IF THE MANUFACTURER, ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER SAYS, HEY, THIS NEW REFRIGERANT'S GOOD. AND THEY LET Y'ALL KNOW THAT VIA SOME FORMAL DOCUMENT AND THEY TELL THE INSTALLER, HEY, THIS IS GOOD. I LOOK AT 2.1 AND SAYING, OKAY, YOU'RE GOOD. SECTION TWO IS NOW CLEAR. YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING FROM THE BUILDING OFFICIAL'S, NOT WHAT HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE. SO GOING BACK TO JEFF'S COMMENT ABOUT [01:05:01] THE PROFESSIONALS, I MEAN, WHAT WOULD Y'ALL USE AS YOUR GUIDELINES TO SAY, I HAVE THIS SYSTEM, I HAVE THIS REFRIGERANT, I THINK I CAN USE THIS REFRIGERANT FON COMPANY. THE FREON MANUFACTURER SAYS WE ARE MANUFACTURING A PRODUCT FOR THE REPLACEMENT OF R 22 OR R 11 FREON. AND THAT WOULD BE THERE. SO IT'S, SO IT'S, IT'S A WRITTEN IT. I JUST THINK IT'S, IT'S BASED UPON THE MANU GET RID OF, IT'S NOT THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER THAT SAYS THAT OR THE REFRIGERANT MANUFACTURERS. SO THE AMENDMENT MAY BE EITHER ORIGINAL INSTALL OR ORIGINAL EQUIPMENT OR MANUFACTURERS ARE REPLACEMENT AND REFRIGERANT MANUFACTURERS RIGHT. APPROVAL. THE MANUFACTURER ON ANY OF THE, THE REFRIGERANTS THAT COME IN IS LIKE WHAT I CALL AN R 22. THE ONES THAT THEY, IT WAS A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT ONES THAT WERE REPLACEMENTS. ANYTHING WOULD DO THE WARRANTY ON EQUIPMENT. THE EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURER WILL TELL YOU IF YOU CAN USE THOSE. YEAH. OR THEY TELL YOU NO. YEAH. SO IN THAT SCENARIO, I THINK YOU'RE GOOD THAT SCENARIO. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CONTACT US OR ANYTHING. WHEN SYSTEM OLD, YOU'RE TAKING A CHANCE AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE HOPING THE REFRIGERANT GUY THAT'S TOLD YOU THIS IS THE REPLACEMENT, IT'S A REPLACEMENT. MOST TIMES THEY HAVE BEEN OKAY. YEAH. THE PROBLEM RUNS IN ON, YOU KNOW, SOME OLDER APARTMENTS BUILDING THE SIXTIES OR SEVENTIES AND, YOU KNOW, THOSE TYPICALLY ARE THE LOWER INCOME PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING THERE. AND YEAH. AND THAT'S, SO WE'D BE BUILDING THE BIGGEST EXPENSE, EXPENSE ON, YOU KNOW, THE MOST VULNERABLE POPULATIONS AND THAT, THAT'S PART OF MY CONCERN. SO I, I THINK WE'LL GO AHEAD AND TABLE THIS FOR TODAY. YEAH. BUT THAT GIVES US SOME GOOD GUIDE. NO, PERFECT. THANK YOU. THANKS JEREMY. BUT JEREMY, JUST BEFORE YOU LEAVE, I JUST THINK Y'ALL HAVE TO REALIZE NO, NO, BUT BUT BEFORE Y'ALL THAT IN THE REPLACEMENT OF EQUIPMENT NUMBER FOUR IS OH NO, 100%. I, I AGREE. ONE NUMBER FOUR IS THE, IS MY BIGGEST HANGUP RIGHT NOW. AND WE GOTTA LOOK AS A FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEER. THAT'S ONE I'M LOOKING AT. AND LIKE, THAT'S THE LIFE SAFETY THING. I UNDERSTAND THE TWO, THE TWO IS A LIABILITY OF YOU'RE DESTROYING EQUIPMENT. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A LI I, I DON'T SEE THAT AS THE LIFE SAFETY CONCERN. NUMBER FOUR IS THE LIFE SAFETY CONCERN. I WANNA GET THAT RESOLVED AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, MINIMIZES IMPACT OF COST NUMBER TWO. THAT'S, THAT'S MORE OF A KIND OF, I THINK WE CAN FIND SOME REGULATION WITH THAT ONE. NUMBER FOUR IS THE ONE THAT I'M GONNA DO THE DEEP DIVE ON AND, AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO THERE. BUT I THINK THE REASON I TALK ABOUT IT, I TALK ABOUT THIS'S NOT, IT'S NOT JUST FOR THE, THE VRF SYSTEM IS WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU TALK ABOUT APARTMENTS AND THESE CHASES WITH THIS REFRIGERANT IN IT IN A COMMERCIAL BUILDING WHERE A VRF, IT'S ALL ABOVE THE CEILINGS AND PLENUM RETURN. YEAH, EXACTLY. WHAT ARE YOU TELLING US? THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING APARTMENT COMPLEXES, THAT'S WHERE WE GOTTA REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT WE TELL PEOPLE ON THIS. 'CAUSE YEAH, THIS COULD CRUSH THE VRF BUSINESS, WHICH IS THE MOST EFFICIENT SYSTEM OUT THERE. YEAH, AND I GUESS MIKE OR JEFF, WHAT I'M ASKING FOR THEN, 'CAUSE YOU'VE MENTIONED THAT, IF YOU COULD JUST KIND OF GIVE ME LIKE WHAT CODE SECTIONS THAT YOU KNOW, LIKE, AND, AND EXPLAIN THAT TO ME. IF YOU COULD WRITE THAT OUT TO US. THAT WAY WE CAN AMEND TO THESE CONCERNS AND NOT JUST THROW SOMETHING OUT. THAT'S OUR BIGGEST CONCERN. WE DON'T WANNA JUST LIKE SAY, OH YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO USE THIS SECTION AT ALL. WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE AMENDING THINGS, BUT STILL KIND OF REGULATE THE INDUSTRY AS AS NEEDED PROPERLY. THAT MAKES SENSE. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU JAMIE. THANK YOU. I JUST WANNA NOTE THAT ITEM FOUR IS, WOULD ALREADY BE INCLUDED IN THE PREVIOUS LANG LANGUAGE WHERE IT SAYS 30 POUNDS OF ANY OTHER GROUP REFRIGERANT SHALL NOT BE CHANGED WITHOUT PRIOR NOTIFICATION AND COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE CODE PROVISIONS FOR THE NEW REFRIGERANT TYPE, RIGHT? THAT'S THE OLD LANGUAGE LANGUAGE. I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT. BUT RESIDENTIAL DOESN'T HAVE 30 POUNDS OF FRI ON IT. IT HAS FIVE OR SIX, CORRECT. IS THAT, JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT THE NEW REFRIGERANT, THE REPLACED REFRIGERANT WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE NEW REFRIGERANT TYPE. THANK YOU, CHRISTIAN. ALL RIGHT. UM, HOW ABOUT, UM, 1103 0.1. ITEM NUMBER 23. ALRIGHT, SO YOU'LL SEE LOTS OF ITEMS ADDED TO THIS TABLE. SO IT UPDATES THE TABLE WITH NEW REFRIGERANTS THAT WERE ADDED TO, UM, ASHRAY 34 SINCE THE LAST CODE CYCLE. SO YOU'LL, WE, AS YOU SCROLL THROUGH THE TABLE, YOU'LL SEE LOTS OF BLUE JUST, UM, ADDED THOSE PER EXISTING ASHRAY REQUIREMENTS OR ASHRAE TABLES. ALL. ALL RIGHT, WE GOOD? ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE TO 24. OKAY. ITEM 24. SO WE'RE IN SECTION. MY CONCERN, I'M SORRY, JUST GO AHEAD. MY, MY CONCERN LOOKING AT IT WAS THAT, UM, LATER ON THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, THEY MIGHT RESTRICT OUT SOME OF THESE. THEY MIGHT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS IS SAYING. THEY'RE BASICALLY, THEY'VE ADDED THE NEW THAT, YEAH. [01:10:01] ALRIGHT, FAIR ENOUGH. YEAH. SO THIS IS YOUR CONCERN RIGHT HERE, MIKE, WHERE WE NOW GO INTO REGULATIONS BASED ON EACH OF THOSE GROUPS. SO WE REFERENCED BACK TO THAT TABLE. SO THAT TABLE KIND OF TELLS US, BASED ON THE SCIENCE AND THE SAFETY CONCERNS OF EACH LEVEL OF GAS, HERE'S KIND OF A CLASSIFICATION FOR EACH. AND THEN NOW WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT, BASED ON THOSE CLASSIFICATIONS, HERE'S WHERE YOU CAN AND CAN'T USE THEM OR WHAT, WHAT SAFETY PRECAUTIONS ARE NEEDED WHEN YOU'RE USING A MORE, UH, HIGHER SAFETY CONCERN. GAS. GOT IT. THANK YOU JAMIE. KIND OF READ MY MIND THERE. UM, SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO 24 11. OH 4.31. OKAY, NOW WE'RE IN SECTION 1104 REFRIGERATION SYSTEM APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS. SO THIS SECTION WAS REVISED. SO THIS PROPOSAL REQUIRES THAT THESE SYSTEMS USE GROUP A ONE OR A TWO L REFRIGERANTS OR OTHER REFRIGERANTS PROVIDED THE MAXIMUM CHARGE DOES NOT EXCEED 6.6 POUNDS FOR RESIDENTIAL APPLICATIONS AND 22 FOR COMMERCIAL RATHER THAN THIS SECTION, RATHER THAN LISTED WHAT'S PROHIBITED, IT LISTS WHAT SHALL BE USED. YOU BRING UP THE OLD LANGUAGE. I DON'T HAVE, THIS IS HOW YOU CONGRATULATE THAT. SEE THAT'S PRO WE, WE ADD SOME OF THESE LITTLE, THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN, INSPECTOR'S GONNA WALK OUT THERE WITH A SCALE AND WATCH 'EM CHARGE THIS THING. HOW YOU GONNA KNOW THAT? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A TRUST IN THAT SENSE. YEAH. I MEAN IT'S ON THE, ON THE NEW INSTALL. I MEAN THAT WOULD, WE MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT IT ON, I MEAN IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S TYPICALLY ON THE DESIGN DRAWINGS OF HOW MUCH POTENTIAL? NO, NO, NO. 'CAUSE YOU CAN PUT ON A DRAWING ALL YOU WANT. YOU COULD STILL HAVE MORE 5, 10, 15, 20 FOOT MORE COPPER. THAT TAKES MORE REFRIGERANT. THERE. THERE'S NO WAY TO REGULATE THIS. I MEAN, WHY THIS IS JUST PUTTING STUFF OUT THERE ON THE INSPECTORS AND THIS IS HOLDING, YOU CAN'T REGULATE. AND DOES IT MATTER? WHAT, WHAT DO Y'ALL CARE IF I PUT 7.2 POUNDS OF REFRIGERANT IN OR 31.6? WHAT'S IT MATTER? FUEL LOAD. HUH? IT'S THE FUEL LOAD OF IT AS THE FIRE PROTECTION ENGINEER. IT'S THE FUEL LOAD IN LIFE SAFETY SIDE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CONCERNED WITH. BUT YOU'RE CONCERNED WITH SOMETHING NOBODY KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT YET. CORRECT. BUT THE GOAL IS TO, IF WE GET TO THAT, IF YOU HAVE THIS TYPE OF GAS AND IT HAS, AND IT MEETS THIS SAFETY CONCERN, YOU CAN'T EXCEED 6.6 AND HAVE IT BE IN THE COMMON AREA WITH, SO WHY WOULD YOU STICK IN THERE IF YOU CAN'T REGULATE IT? YOU CANNOT REGULATE THIS. BUT YOU'RE SAYING EARLIER THAT THE PROFESSIONALS ARE THE ONES THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO TRUST. BUT IF WE DON'T SET, THIS IS THE GUIDELINES IN PLACE THAT THEY HAVE TO FOLLOW, THEY HAVE TO REGULATE THEMSELVES AS WELL ON THAT. THEY DON'T TELL US HOW TO CHARGE A SYSTEM THAT'S ALL UP ON THE AIR CONDITIONING GUY. THAT, THAT HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ENGINEERING IS NOT TELLING ME HOW MUCH REFRIGERANT TO PUT INTO A SYSTEM. CORRECT. BUT I MEAN THERE'S GOTTA BE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD ASSUME ON THE DESIGN SIDE, IF, HEY LOOK, IF BASED ON MY PROPOSED COPPER THAT I'M GONNA RUN IN THIS BUILDING AND I'M SITTING AT 10% FROM THIS MINIMUM OR MAXIMUM, MAYBE I SHOULD LOOK AT A DIFFERENT REFRIGERANT OR FIND OTHER WAYS OF MEETING THAT. BUT I'M NOT, I'M NOT CONVINCED I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I'M, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS IS WHERE I GET IRRITATED WITH GOVERNMENT. WE ADD ALL THESE, THIS SAYING, IT'S BASICALLY SAYING YOU'RE REGULATING HOW MUCH GAS I'M PUTTING IN THIS MACHINE. YOU CAN'T REGULATE THAT. SO WHY WOULD YOU PUT IT IN THERE? IT'S A WASTE OF EVERYBODY'S TIME. YOU, WE THERE, I CAN'T GET AN INSPECTOR NOW I CAN'T IMAGINE SAYING, HEY, CAN YOU COME OUT AND WATCH ME START THIS OR I CAN SHOW YOU. I PUT IN 6.2 POUNDS OF, OF GAS. OKAY. SO THERE, THERE IS A WAY TO REGULATE THAT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS ON THE EQUIPMENT THAT YOU SELL, IT TELLS YOU IF YOU USE SEVEN EIGHT COPPER, IT'S GONNA, YOU KNOW, AND 25 FOOT RUN, IT'S GONNA GIVE YOU THIS MUCH, YOU KNOW, UH, THAT IT ACTUALLY TELLS YOU HOW MUCH REFRIGERANT THAT CONDENSER HOLDS OR HOW MUCH THE PRESSURE SHOULD BE. SO IF YOU TAKE IN CONSIDERATION ALL OF THAT, AND YOU LOOK AT THE MANUFACTURER INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS, IT TELLS YOU IF YOU'RE GONNA RUN 30 FEET OF SEVEN-EIGHTHS COPPER, THEN THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IT, SO IT HAS SOMEWHAT CAN BE REGULATED IN THAT BECAUSE WE KNOW THE THICKER, THE BIGGER THE COPPER, THE MORE FRICTION IT'S GONNA TAKE. NOW AS FAR AS HOW MUCH, WELL, I MEAN IF YOU UNDERCHARGE IT, IT IS NOT GONNA WORK. WE KNOW THAT TOO. SO I'M PRETTY SURE THAT BASED ON ON THAT THERE, THERE'S SOME SORT OF REGULATION THAT WE CAN DO. HOW, I MEAN, AGAIN, YOU'RE WANTING US TO APPROVE SOMETHING TO PUT IN HERE. YOU CANNOT REGULATE THAT. YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE THE TIME. AND MY QUESTION IS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PUBLIC GUYS. THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GETTING INTO STUFF THAT WE'RE JUST WRITING THINGS. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T GET NOTHING DONE AND EVERYTHING COSTS A DAMN MUCH MONEY. WE'RE PUTTING IN THINGS THAT WE AND WHAT WE DO, WE'RE [01:15:01] SITTING HERE IN THIS MEETING RIGHT NOW SAYING, WELL LET, LET'S JUST KINDA LET IT GET IN THERE AND WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. ONCE IT'S THERE, IT'S THERE AND THERE JUST, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS YOU JUST CAN'T, YOU CAN'T REGULATE. YOU CAN'T REGULATE MY CHARGE. THERE'S NO WAY. EVEN IF WE DON'T REQUIRE A PERMIT OR WE DON'T INSPECT AN ITEM, THESE ARE THE CODE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE THE MINIMUM CODE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE PUT IN PLACE. BUT WHY DON'T YOU JUST KEEP IT TO THE MANUFACTURER? Y'ALL DON'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE MAKING THESE RULES. DON'T KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE, IT IS LIKE ASHRAY. WE FOLLOW ASHRAY. ASHRAY HAS MISSED THE MARK ON A LOT OF THINGS GUYS, IF Y'ALL DON'T KNOW THAT OUTSIDE AIR IS ONE OF THEM. WE GOT MORE SICK BUILDINGS TODAY THAN WE'VE EVER HAD AND WE KEEP ADDING MORE AND ADD MORE AND ADD MORE AND PUTTING REGULATIONS ON IT AND REGULATIONS. THAT'S WHY THIS HOOD THING'S A BIG DEAL. SO CAN I ADD WHAT IS A ONE? LET'S FOR US NOVICES GROUP A ONE AND A TWO L REFRIGERATOR IS WHAT WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT LIST ON THE TOP, UH, BACK TO THAT TABLE. SO THAT TABLE'S WHAT TELLS US WHICH TYPE OF REFRIGERANTS, BUT BASICALLY WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO IS THE LEAST SAFETY CONCERNED ONES THOUGH. THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT SAYING FOR, UM, HIGH CONTACT WITH, UH, OCCUPANTS, THE HEADING YOU'RE ALLOWED TO USE THESE SAID, UM, THE EXCEPTIONS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS SAYING, LOOK, YOU'RE ACTUALLY ALLOWED TO USE THE OTHER TYPES, THE MORE CONCERNING ONES, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T GO TOO HIGH ON THE, THE LOAD. BUT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO USE ALL OF THE A ONE WITHOUT ANY CONCERN ABOUT THE THE FUEL OR HOW MUCH, UH, GAS IS IN THERE. SO IS THE A ONE AND A WHATEVER THE OTHER ONE A TWO L BOTH THE ONES THAT ARE FOR RESIDENTIAL REON, CORRECT? YEAH. WELL THEY'RE, THEY'RE FOR OCCUPIED AREAS. SO RIGHT NOW, RIGHT NOW EVERYBODY USES THE SAME REFRIGERATOR JUST FOR EVERYTHING EXCEPT BARGAIN MACHINE. YEAH. EVERYBODY RIGHT NOW USES THE SAME REFRIGERATOR, BUT I THINK THEY'RE GONNA SEE MANUFACTURERS. THERE'S EVEN MORE MANUFACTURERS THAT USE DIFFERENT REFRIGERANTS BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THEY'RE TRYING TO LOCK IN PRICING JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE. AND WHAT IS THE NEW REFRIGERATOR CALLED THERE? THERE'S DIFFERENT BRANDS. SO IT, THE, IT IT'S NOT THE REFRIGERANT THAT WE'RE CONCERNED IS WHAT'S INSIDE THE, THE, THE, WHAT THE, THE GASES ARE THAT MADE THE REFRIGERANT. SO THAT'S HOW THEY'RE LABELED, BUT THAT'S HOW THEY'RE CLASSIFIED. SO A TWO L ALL THAT MEANS IS THAT THE REFRIGERANT THAT THEY'RE USING HAS SOME, SOME PROPANE IN IT. PROPANE. SO A TWO L WOULD BE THE NEW FREON? YES. BUT THERE'S DIFFERENT BRANDS. THERE'S DIFFERENT TYPES. IT'S HOW THEY CLASSIFY IT'S DIFFERENT NUMBERS. BUT ALL THE FREON THAT HAS PROPANE IN IT WOULD BE EIGHT. THE NEW FREON AND RESIDENTIAL UNITS THAT'S GOING TO BE MANDATED WOULD BE A TWO L, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S, THAT'S AS OF JANUARY ONE. YES. AND SO LEMME ASK THIS, THIS IS A QUESTION I HAVE, SO I DON'T, OF ALL VARIANCE OF FOUR 10 A, UM, ARE THEY ALL A ONE OR A TWO L? YES. OKAY. SO THIS DOESN'T PRECLUDE US FROM, I MEAN, 'CAUSE AT SOME POINT WE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT SOME LEVEL OF SANITY WILL BE RESTORED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S REGULATION OF THESE THINGS ONCE THEY REALIZE THAT I DOUBT IT. THEY'RE BANKRUPTING THE, THE POOREST AMONG US. YEAH, I, I DOUBT IT TOO. BUT WE, WE CAN ALL HELP AND I THINK WE JUST NEED TO HAVE OUR CODE PREPARED THAT WILL ALLOW WHEN THAT SANITY IS RESTORED, THAT WE DON'T THEN HAVE TO COME CHANGE OUR CODE. THAT OUR CODE IS PERMISSIVE OF AS MANY THINGS AS, AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT THE UH, UH, FOR 10 A IS BEING REPLACED WITH R 32 AND R 4 54 B, WHICH ARE A TWO LS, BUT IT SAYS THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY CONTAIN PROPANE. THEY'RE ACTUALLY AT A LOWER OR MILDLY FLAMMABLE RATING. UM, IT'S LESS FLAMMABLE THAN HYDROCARBON REFRIGERANTS LIKE PROPANE AND THAT. AND THOSE ARE ALSO A ONE OR A TWO L. SO AS LONG AS YOU KNOW THAT, THAT'S MY POINT, I JUST WANNA BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THESE SYSTEMS AVAILABLE TO US. RIGHT. THE WAY THE CODE THAT SECTION READS IS IF YOU USE ONE OF THE NEW FREONS, YOU'RE FINE. ANY OF THE NEW IN R 22, R FOUR, 10 A, THE NEW FON, ANY OF THOSE ARE OKAY. THAT IS CORRECT. YEAH. THESE EXCEPTIONS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE, IF YOU WANT TO USE THE, THE HIGHER CONCERN, THE HIGHER SAFETY CONCERN ONES, YOU'RE LIMITED ON HOW MUCH OF THOSE YOU COULD USE. SO IF IN A RESIDENTIAL YOU WANT TO USE SOMETHING BESIDES A ONE OR A TWO L, YOU CAN DO THAT AS LONG AS YOU DON'T EXCEED 6.6 POUNDS. AND THEN WHAT? AND INDUSTRIAL OR IN COMMERCIAL, YOU CAN DO 22 POUNDS IN INDUSTRIAL YOU CAN USE IT WITH NO REGULATIONS WHATSOEVER. SO INDUSTRIAL, YOU CAN USE ANY OF THOSE. SO MY, MY QUESTION IS, IS FROM ONE OF THE AIR CONDITIONING GUYS, WHAT WOULD BE A USE IN A RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY WHERE YOU WOULD USE ONE OF THE, THE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT EIGHT ONE OR EIGHT TWO L THAT'S NOT REALLY THE ISSUE I'VE GOT. I GOT THE ISSUE WHERE THEY'RE MANDATE AND HOW MUCH YOU CAN PUT IN THE, THERE'S NO WAY TO REGULATE THAT. WELL, I MEAN THEN WHAT WE WOULD DO IS REMOVE THESE. CAN WE SCRATCH EXCEPTIONS? CAN WE SCRATCH? WELL, BUT BUT WHAT YOU'RE, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE. [01:20:01] SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOUR EXCEPTION IS I WANT TO USE SOMETHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN, OR THE HIGHER SAFETY CONCERN THAN A ONE OR A TWO L FOR THIS RESIDENCE. IF WE SCRAPS THAT OUT, THEN YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO RIGHT NOW YOU COULD AS LONG AS YOU CAN REGULATE AND YOU KNOW, AS THE INSTALLER SAY, LOOK, I'M NOT GONNA GO ABOVE 6.6. I'VE LOOKED AT THIS SYSTEM AND MOST IT'S GONNA BE FOUR OR FIVE POUNDS AND THEN I'M GOOD TO GO. SO I CAN SWAP IT OUT RIGHT NOW AND I MEET THE CODE. NO CONCERN. BUT IF YOU GO ABOVE THAT 6.6, THEN YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT. IF WE REMOVE THIS EXCEPTION, THEN THERE IS NO OPTION TO USE ANYTHING BESIDES A ONE OR A TWO L. SO THE REQUIREMENT IS YOU ONLY USE A ONE OR A TWO L AND RESIDENCE. THE EXCEPTION IS YOU CAN USE SOMETHING BESIDES THOSE AS LONG AS YOU DON'T GO TOO HIGH ON THE POUNDS. NOW IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT POUNDS ARE, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S, I MEAN, WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS ACTUALLY REMOVING OPTIONS INSTEAD OF ALLOWING MORE OPTIONS. I'M GONNA TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE 'CAUSE FROM WHAT I HEARD YOU SAY, CHIEF, IT IT'S THAT YOU CAN, BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE EQUIPMENT AND THE SIZE OF THE COPPER, YOU CAN KNOW HOW MUCH, HOW MANY POUNDS ARE. AND SO YOU, IT'S WITHIN YOUR CAPABILITY TO SEE IT. BUT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS, UM, SHOW ME WHY THE NUM THE THE AMOUNT OF POUNDS MATTERS. UM, EXACTLY. AND AND AND THAT AND WHY IT NEEDS TO BE REGULATED. BECAUSE WHEN HE SAY IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU'RE PUTTING IT IN THE CODE. SO IT'S GOTTA MATTER. BUT, BUT MY QUESTION IS, IS CAN SOMEBODY GIVE US AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE YOU WOULD USE IN A RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY, SOMETHING OTHER THAN A ONE OR A TWO? YOU'RE NOT GOING TO, SO IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER. THE THE, THE THE NEW REQUIREMENTS, THE NEW EQUIPMENT HAS TO USE A TWO L. YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. THAT'S WHAT THE MANUFACTURERS ARE GONNA BUILD. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA PUT IN. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SO I DON'T KNOW. WELL, LET ME TELL Y'ALL WHY THIS, THE, THESE, A LOT OF THIS IS DONE BY, A LOT OF THIS IS ASHRAY FIELD LOOK, AND I'M, I'M NOT TRYING TO OFFEND ANY ENGINEER IF THERE IS ONE IN HERE, BUT THEY PUT THIS IN THERE TO WHERE THEY CAN, WHERE IT DOES ELIMINATE SYSTEMS. I WILL TELL YOU THEY'RE TRYING TO ELIMINATE A VRF SYSTEM. I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THIS INFORMATION. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO PREVENT. WHAT IS A VRF SYSTEM? A VRF SYSTEM IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING A LOT IN COMMERCIAL BILLINGS WHERE YOU GOT ONE CONDENSING UNIT AND YOU'VE GOT 30 OR 40 AIR HANDLERS ON IT WITH ONE RE ONE REFRIGERANT SYSTEM THAT CONTROLS ALL OF THEM AND IT HOLDS MORE THAN 200 POUNDS OF REFRIGERANT. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE ONES WHERE THEY, IT'S BASICALLY A BIGGER, A BIGGER, BIGGER COMMERCIAL SYSTEM. YEAH. AND IT, IT'S BASICALLY NOT REALLY, I MEAN IT'S EVEN SMALL STUFF NOW YOU SEE VRF IN A LOT OF THINGS JUST 'CAUSE IT'S VERY EFFICIENT. BUT WE JUST NEED, I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY THING I'M TRYING TO PROTECT. YEAH, I I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE RESIDENTIAL, YOU'RE NEVER GONNA USE ANY OTHER REFRIGERANT OTHER THAN THE A ONE OR THE A TWO L. YOU'RE NOT. YEAH. SO THAT EXCEPTION REALLY, IT'S JUST IF FOR SOME REASON AND KIND OF WHAT MARK HAS BROUGHT UP OF MAKING SURE WHEN WE LIVE UNDER THESE CODE FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS, IF SOMETHING COMES OUT, IT'S SAYING, LOOK, YOU HAVE THIS EXCEPTION. IF SOMETHING COMES OUT THAT IS MORE THAN THAT AND IT GETS APPROVED THAT YOU CAN, THEN THEY'RE JUST SAYING, HEY, YOU CAN DO THAT AS LONG AS YOU DON'T EXCEED THIS POUNDAGE. OKAY. SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE GOOD WITH IT. I MEAN THEY'RE LOOKING AT A LOT OF THIS FROM THE OLDER STUFF FROM R 11 AND THINGS LIKE THAT ON THE, ON THE FLAMMABLE SIDE, WHICH ALL NEW REFRIGERANTS ARE NOT NEAR AS FLAMMABLE AS THE OLD ONES WERE. AND TECHNICALLY THE R 11 STILL IN THAT TABLE. SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE WE'RE CITING SOME GUIDELINES IT'S IN, YOU'RE STILL SEEING IT FOR SOME PLACES. YEAH. SO WE'RE GONNA MOVE TO ITEM 25 11. OH 4.3 0.2. OKAY. THAT'S KIND OF THE OPPOSITE, SAYING THAT, UH, GROUP A TWO AND B TWO REFRIGERANTS SHALL NOT BE USED IN HIGH PROBABILITY SYSTEMS. UM, GROUP A THREE AND B THREE REFRIGERANTS SHALL NOT BE USED EXCEPT WHERE APPROVED. SO THERE ARE A COUPLE NEW ITEMS HERE, UH, THAT WERE BROUGHT OVER, UM, BASED ON THE UPDATES TO THE ASHRA 15. OKAY, I'M GONNA ASK AN EXCEPTIONALLY DUMB QUESTION. WHAT IS A HIGH PROBABILITY SYSTEM? SO THAT'S, UH, IT'S DEFINED, BUT IT'S THE UH, HOW INTERACTION WITH OCCUPANTS. UH, SO THEY KIND OF DO DEFINE IT, BUT IT, THE WHOLE POINT IS, IS THAT REFRIGERANT'S LIKE AROUND WHERE THE OCCUPANTS ARE GONNA BE. THIS IS ANOTHER VRF PART ISSUE HERE. THIS, SO REAL QUICK, JEFF, ON THE VRF, DO THEY USE A TWO AND B TWO SYSTEMS? WELL THEY DO RIGHT NOW, BUT I'M GONNA TELL AROUND WE WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T KNOW. 'CAUSE THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T CHANGE THEIR REFRIGERANT UNTIL NEXT YEAR. SO WE'RE WRITING CODES SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA BE. GOTCHA. OKAY. SO POTENTIALLY WHATEVER A NEW REFRIGERANT COMES OUT, IT COULD FALL UNDER A TWO B TWO. GOTCHA. OKAY, THAT MAKES SENSE. OKAY, NEXT TO ITEM NUMBER 26, THESE ARE NEW SECTIONS. SO NOW WE'RE IN MACHINE ROOM SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS. 1106 0.4, UH, AND 4.1 AND 4.2 AND 4.3. SO WITH GROUPS A TWO L AND B, TWO L REFRIGERANTS RESEARCH HAS PROVEN THAT OPEN FLAMES AND HOT SURFACES [01:25:01] CAN BE AT A HIGHER TEMPERATURE THAN GROUPS A TWO, A THREE, B TWO AND B THREE REFRIGERANTS. SO THIS SECTION ADDS SPECIAL PROVISIONS FOR GROUPS A TWO L AND B TWO L REFRIGERANTS REGARDING HOT SURFACES. SO THIS CHANGE REALLY CLARIFIES THE REQUIREMENTS FOR VENTILATION OF A MACHINE ROOM. UM, GOING ONTO THE, UH, UH, VENTILATION AS WELL, LIKE THAT IS 4.3. UM, IT DELETED THE MINIMUM EXHAUST RATE TABLE AND ADDED A POINTER JUST TO ASHRAY 15. HEY COREY, ON ANY OF THE NEW AID BUILDS THAT Y'ALL ARE DOING, DO YOU, THERE'S NO CHILLER SYSTEMS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT ANYMORE, RIGHT? IT'S ALL INDIVIDUAL ACS. I MEAN, IS THIS, YEAH, OKAY. I JUST, I WAS JUST ASKING IF THERE'S, HE WAS SEEING A LOT OF CHILLER SYSTEMS BEING INSTALLED IN NEW MULTIFAMILIES. YEAH, TELL ME ABOUT IT. UH, ALL RIGHT, WELL THERE'S NOT A LOT OF BIG CHANGES FROM THE LAST CODE ON THIS, IS THERE? NO, FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, NO. NO, I THINK IT'S JUST SEPARATING THE NEW CLASSIFICATION AND HAVING TO ADD SOME MORE CLARIFICATION AND THEN ALSO POINTING TO ADDED, WHICH THAT'S ALWAYS KIND OF BEEN THERE, BUT NOW THEY'VE KIND OF CLARIFIED IT. EXACTLY. YEAH. AND THEN I THINK POINTING TO ASHRAY HELPS AS WELL, SO THAT AS THINGS CHANGE, ASHRAY ISS USUALLY A LITTLE BIT MORE ON TOP OF IT. I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN AND MAYBE NOT ALWAYS, BUT I WOULD SAY MORE ON TOP OF IT. WELL, MAYBE MORE THAN THE I CODES I GUESS IS, IS PROBABLY HOW TO PUT IT ITSELF. I DON'T THINK THOSE GUYS AIN'T LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES. NO COMMENT ON THAT ONE, SIR. OKAY, ITEM 27. THIS IS 1109 0.2 0.2 FOR REFRIGERANT PIPE ENCLOSURES. SO IT ADDED SOME ADDITIONAL EXCEPTIONS OR AND EXCEPTION OUTSIDE THE BUILDING ALLOWS REFRIGERANT PIPING TO BE INSTALLED OUTSIDE THE BUILDING IF PROTECTED IN ONE OF THE LISTED MANNERS. SO PROTECTED DAMAGE FROM WEATHER. WHAT, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE FROM THAT NOW TO WHAT THIS IS? AND WE CAN PUT A COMMENT ON ANY OUTSIDE, ANY BUILDING YOU WANT TODAY IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT IT. YEAH, YOU'RE CORRECT ON THAT. IT'S NOT ASKING FOR A SPECIAL, UH, THAT MAY BE COVER AROUND WHAT, WHAT ARE WE ASKING FOR HERE? IT'S DIFFERENT 'CAUSE YOU COULD ALWAYS BE ABLE TO PUT REFRIGERANT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING. UM, YEAH, I'M TRYING TO THINK WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS, WAS THIS MAYBE ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE SOME AHJS MIGHT'VE REGULATED SAYING YOU COULDN'T, AND THIS JUST KIND OF GIVES THAT OPTION. IT'S LIKE, LOOK, YES, YES YOU CAN, IF YOU GET IT OUTSIDE THE BUILDING, YOU DON'T NEED TO CHASE, YOU DON'T NEED TO PROTECTION, UM, SIGNS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME MECHANICAL PROTECTION THAT IT REQUIRES, UH, YOU KNOW, BUT BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, PUT A SHROUD AROUND IT AND WE'RE GOOD TO GO. UH, WHICH I THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD DO. SO WE, IF SOMEONE SAYS YOU CAN'T DO IT, ARE WE SAYING YOU HAVE TO DO IT? YOU CAN. THAT'S NOT, NO, IT'S JUST AN EXCEPTION. IT'S AN OPTION NOW. SO BASICALLY IT'S JUST FORMULATING THAT AS AN OPTION SO THAT IF THERE WAS AJS OUT THERE SAYING, NO, YOU CAN'T PUT IT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING, YOU HAVE TO PUT IT INSIDE A ROAD CHASE OR SOMETHING. NOW THAT'S JUST SAYING NO, THAT MEETS THE INTENT OF THIS SECTION. PUT IT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING, PROTECTS IT FROM THE WEATHER AND WE'RE GOOD TO GO. YOU'RE BASICALLY GOT THE COVER WITH SOME KIND OF METAL THAT'S NOT THE CODE DOWN METAL. THE THE CODE TODAY IS NOT YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COVER IT WITH NOTHING. YEAH, WELL YOU DON'T. SO QUESTION, ARE YOU SAYING WE GOTTA ADD A, THAT'S WHAT I'M, ARE WE HAVING TO ADD A COVER? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU CAN STRAP THAT BABY ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. IT'S LEGAL. THIS IS SAYING YOU HAVE TO PUT SOME KIND OF COVER TO PROTECT IT. WHAT KIND OF COVER, WHAT WOULD WE SEE AS A PROTECTION FROM WHETHER THE, THE PROTECTION FROM WEATHER IS PROBABLY JUST YOUR, UH, INSULATION. THE ARMOR FLEX. YEAH, I MEAN, BUT IT HAS TO BE, UH, YEAH, PRETTY MUCH. WE DON'T MAKE US PAINTED NOW ANYWAY. SO I MEAN WHAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE LINE SET COVERS. WE'VE SEEN THAT WE'VE SEEN, UM, JUST, UH, DIFFERENT MATERIALS TO COVER IT, YOU KNOW, OR PAINT OR, UM, THE KFL INSULATION THAT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT PROTECTS IT FROM THE ELEMENTS, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. I MEAN, IT'S SECURED TO THE WALL. WHERE'S THE LIST? DO YOU HAVE THE LIST? IT'S, UH, YEAH, SO THOSE ARE THE FOUR RIGHT THERE OR THE THREE OPTIONS. I, WHEN I'M READING THIS, IT'S MORE PROBABLY YOUR HORIZONTAL RUNS ON THE TOP OF THE CEILING, UH, THE ROOF, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT NOBODY'S FOOT TRAFFIC STEPS ON IT AND KICKS IT. UH, MAKING SURE IF IT IS SIGNIFICANT SIZE ENOUGH THAT, YOU KNOW, A WHOLE BUNCH OF, UH, SNOW LOAD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. TYPICALLY WHAT YOU REALLY DO. YEAH, EXACTLY. I MEAN ON ITEM NUMBER ONE. YEAH, I THINK, I THINK SO. I I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT REALLY IS JUST EXPANDING AND MAKING IT CODIFIED WHAT WE'RE ALREADY APPROVING. EXACTLY. IT WASN'T PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED IN THE [01:30:01] CODE THAT YOU COULD HAVE THE PIPING OUTSIDE THIS SECTION SAYS REFRIGERANT PIP ENCLOSURES INSIDE THE BUILDING. SO I'M SURE THERE WERE JURISDICTIONS THAT SAYS THAT'S NOT ALLOWED, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT OUTSIDE. IT SAYS RIGHT HERE. IT HAS TO BE INSIDE. SO THIS IS AN EXCEPTION NO ONE IS FOR OUTSIDE, UH, OF THE REFRIGERATOR PIPE. BUT WHEN IT SAYS PROVIDE WITH THE, WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT THE PROTECTED FROM DAMAGE, THE QUESTION IS WHAT, 'CAUSE ME AND HIM, OUR, MY INTERPRETATION IS THE ARMAFLEX. YEAH, BUT HE'S SAYING, UH, WITHIN THE EXPECTED FOOT, FOOT OR TRAFFIC PATH. SO THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT PROBABLY WHAT'S LAYING ON THE GROUND PROTECTED FROM DAMAGE FROM COPPER THAT IS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING GOING ACROSS A PATHWAY OR SOMETHING. AND THAT'S THE CODE NOW. SO. YEAH, EXACTLY. AND, AND, AND HONESTLY I THINK THE REASON THEY KIND OF BROKE IT DOWN LIKE THIS IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU READ FURTHER DOWN ON THE A TWO L, YOU KNOW, REFRIGERANT THAT WE'RE ABOUT TO GET TO INTO NEXT IS THAT YOU HAVE OPTIONS. YOU CAN RUN IT THROUGH THE INSIDE OF THE BUILDING ON A FIRE READY SHAFT ALL THE WAY, THREE, FOUR FLOORS UP. OR YOU CAN RUN IT ON THE OUTSIDE WITHOUT ANY VENTILATION. AND I THINK THEY ADDED THIS JUST TO COVER THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GOOD? YEAH, I MEAN IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING THAT, THAT UM, THAT PUTTING IN THE CODE FOR OTHER, I MEAN, SAN ANTONIO ALREADY IS KIND OF ENFORCED IT THIS WAY AND I'M JUST WONDERING WHO BRINGS THIS STUFF UP. . WELL YOU, YOU PROBABLY REMEMBER MY MULTI-YEAR CRUSADE TO GET RID OF THE LOCKING CAPS. YOU KNOW, SAME THING. WELL, CODE HERES ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW IN CALIFORNIA , I DON'T LIVE THERE. AND THERE'S A REASON WHY WE, WE TRY NOT TO CUSS. I HOPE WE DON'T MAKE THIS CALIFORNIA. ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM 28. ALL RIGHT, ITEM 28. THIS, UH, WE ARE PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO THIS SECTION. SO THIS IS FOR REFRIGERANT PIPE SHAFTS. SO REFRIGERANT PIPING THAT PENETRATES TWO OR MORE FLOOR CEILING ASSEMBLY SHALL BE ENCLOSED IN A FIRE RESISTANT RATED SHAFT ENCLOSURE. THE SHAFT ENCLOSURE SHALL COMPLY WITH THE IBC AND THERE ARE THREE EXCEPTIONS. SO EXCEPTION NUMBER TWO SAYS PIPING IN A DIRECT REFRIGERANT SYSTEM USING GROUP A ONE REFRIGERANTS. SO WE WANT TO REMOVE USING GROUP A ONE REFRIGERANTS TO ALLOW THIS EXCEPTION FOR ALL REFRIGERANTS. SO THIS, UM, THIS IS CURRENTLY BEING BROUGHT, PROPOSED, UM, IN THE 2027 IMC AND WE HAVE THAT PROPOSAL, BUT IT ALSO MATCHES WHAT ASHRA SAYS NOW. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO, WE WHAT SOMEONE NEEDS TO, YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN THAT TO ME ON, ON CHASE. 'CAUSE WE TALKING, I'M, I'M BRINGING UP VRF AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S BIG, THERE'S A LOT OF HORIZONTAL RUNS. IF YOU READ THIS AND THEN WHEN YOU PUT THE WHOLE LIST OF REFRIGERANTS IN THERE, IT'S GONNA ELIMINATE VRF ABOVE CEILINGS WITHOUT SHAFTS AROUND THEM. AND THERE'S A LOT OF REFRIGERANT ABOVE, ABOVE CEILINGS. YEAH. THIS IS PENETRATION BETWEEN FLOORS. SO HORIZONTAL RUNS SAY THAT SO WE CAN MEET NO, DOES DOES IT SAY HORIZONTAL RUNS? VERTICAL RUNS VERTICAL. IT NEEDS TO SAY VERTICAL RUNS. IT SAYS PENETRATION BETWEEN TWO OR MORE FLOORS, CEILING ASSEMBLIES. SO IF IT'S NOT GOING THROUGH THOSE ASSEMBLIES, LISTEN, I DEAL WITH YOU GUYS ALL THE TIME. I'M NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN, BUT IT NEEDS TO SAY IF IT'S, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT VERTICAL RUNS, LET'S CALL IT VERTICAL RUNS, VERTICAL CHASES IT, IT, IT SAYS PENETRATION THROUGH A SUBFLOOR SLASH CEILING. IT, IT DOESN'T, UH, FLOOR SLASH CEILING PENETRATION. SO I MEAN THAT'S ONLY UP AND DOWN. YEAH, LIKE, UH, IT DOESN'T SPECIFY WALL BARRIER OR FIRE BARRIERS OR, OR FIREWALLS. SO THE HORIZONTAL OR THE VERTICAL, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PENETRATE AS MANY BARRIERS AS YOU WANT ACCORDING TO THIS SECTION. I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THE 27, BUT I THINK THE 24 REFLECTS THAT SAME THING ABOUT, SO I GUESS BRING UP THE 24 LANGUAGE. CAN I NO, THE JUST THE, THE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO ASK, ASK Y'ALL TO ADDRESS IS IF A SYSTEM IS REPLACED IN AN EXISTING BUILDING THAT HAS THE VERTICAL GOING MORE THAN TWO, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN BASICALLY IT'S MORE THAN ONE. IF IT CONNECTS FROM ONE FLOOR TO ANOTHER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT IN A CHASE. YOU WANNA SEE THE 21, ARE YOU GONNA MAKE IT BRING UP THE 2021 A RETROFIT REQUIREMENT FOR ANY SYSTEM THAT'S REPLACED? AND IF YOU ARE, I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT THAT WE EXEMPT THOSE OUT. THAT'S KIND OF GOING BACK TO WHAT WE ARE ASKING US TO LOOK AT FOR THE CHANGE OF REFRIGERANT TYPE. I THINK, YEAH, IT MAKES SENSE THAT WE WOULD ALSO LOOK AT THAT IF YOU'RE JUST ALSO CHANGING OUT YOUR SYSTEM. SO WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AND EVALUATE THAT AND SEE WHO IS IT IMPACTING AND WHAT EXEMPTIONS CAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT EXCEPTIONS CAN WE DO OR AMENDMENTS THAT MAKES SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE FALLING WITHIN THOSE A TWO LS AND [01:35:01] A ONES, THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS CONCERNING NOT, I DON'T THINK THE ISSUES OF HAVING THE CHASES. I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WHEN YOU SAY ALL OF THE LIST OF THESE REFRIGERANTS INCLUDED IN THIS, IT MAY JUST BE PART OF, OF THOSE THAT ARE, SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THAT CHASE. IT SHOULD ONLY BE THE REFRIGERANTS THAT ARE A PROBLEM, NOT THE WHOLE LIST. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE AMENDMENT IS. WE'RE REMOVING THE A ONES BECAUSE YOU, UH, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT INCLUDES THOSE, BUT THE ONES THAT WE HAVE ISSUES WITH THE A TWO L, SO THE, THE, THE NEW ASHRAY TABLE REMOVES THE A THE IS GONNA, WELL ACTUALLY NO, IT, IT INCREASES THE AMOUNT OF REFRIGERANT. YOU CAN USE A TWO L REFRIGERANT THAT YOU CAN USE, BUT THE A ONE, THEY JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, THEY ALSO REMOVED IT. AND SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO KEEP THAT THE SAME AS WHAT'S GONNA COME UP. I WOULD LIKE TO RESEARCH THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT AND THE ONLY REASON WHY IS, 'CAUSE I KNOW WHAT ASHRAY IS TRYING TO ELIMINATE VRF, JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT BECAUSE THEY LIKE CHILLERS, THEY LIKE WATER, THEY DON'T LIKE REFRIGERANT. LET'S DON'T KILL AN INDUSTRY JUST BECAUSE ASHRAY WANTS IT. LET'S, LET'S REALLY DO SOME RESEARCH ON 'CAUSE MAKE SURE WHAT WE'RE DOING AS A CITY IS NOT DOING WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO. BUT I HAVE YOU DO THAT. BUT MY UNDERSTANDING, SO LIKE THE, THE, THE LANGUAGE THAT WE SEE HERE HIGHLIGHTED IS ALREADY IN, IT'S ALREADY ADOPTED, IT'S IN 2021. THE ONLY THING WE'RE DOING IS CROSSING OUT USING GROUP A ONE REFRIGERANT SO THAT WE ARE EXPANDING THE LIST OF REFRIGERANTS THAT CAN MEET THE ACCEPTED OUTTA THIS EXCEPTION. EXACTLY. SO IS THAT, THAT'S YOUR CONCERN THAT THERE'S REFRIGERANTS THAT SHOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED? IS THAT, IS THAT WHAT YOU I THINK SO, YES. I JUST WANNA LOOK, I I HAVE TIME TO LOOK. OKAY, SO LET, WE CAN WAIT ON THIS TIME. ALRIGHT, WE GOOD WITH THAT? I'LL TABLE THIS ONE THEN. ALRIGHT. AND LET'S MOVE ON TO THAT. YEAH, I I'M NEVER OPPOSED TO TAKING MORE TIME A LOOK AT SOMETHING, ESPECIALLY SINCE I DON'T UNDERSTAND HALF OF THIS STUFF ANYWAY. I'M JUST, THAT'S A JOKE FOR ANYWAY. UM, DO WE HAVE TIME TO GET INTO 29? BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT'S GONNA BE A LONG, I THINK, I THINK THIS ONE MIGHT, THIS IS MAYBE I'M, MAYBE I'M WRONG, BUT IS THIS, IS THIS A SHORT CONVERSATION CRYSTAL? YEAH, THESE ARE SMALL REVISIONS TO 1109 0.3 AND, AND IF WE GET A COUPLE MINUTES INTO IT AND, AND WE WANNA GO AHEAD AND STOP, WE CAN DEFINITELY MAKE THAT DECISION. SO THESE SECTIONS, UH, WERE COMBINED TO INCLUDE ALL OF THE REFRIGERANTS CONTINUOUS VENTILATION WAS ALREADY REQUIRED FOR THE A TWO, A THREE B TWO OR B THREE REFRIGERANTS. SO THERE WERE TWO SECTIONS. UM, AND THEY JUST COMBINED THEM ALL INTO ONE SECTION. SO THIS IS REALLY NO NEW REQUIREMENTS. YOU CAN LOOK TO SEE, UH, WHAT WAS ADDED, UM, TO 1109 0.3. IT JUST COMBINED THOSE REFRIGERANTS. IF WE WANNA BRING UP THE, UH, 21 LANGUAGE, YOU CAN SEE HOW THAT WAS SHOWN BEFORE. GO BACK TO THAT DETECTOR. YOU JUST PASSED ONE UP. OKAY, GO TO THE 24. HOLD ON, WE'RE GONNA BRING UP THE, BRING BACK UP THE 2024. 2024. SO YOU ARE MAKING WE'RE AT, WE'RE AT THAT YOU ARE A REFRIGE DETECTOR ON THAT. SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS REQUIRED, HUH? THAT WAS REQUIRED. YEAH. THIS HAS NOT CHANGED FROM 2021, IT'S JUST THAT WE'VE NEVER DEALT WITH IT WITH A TWO L REFRIGERANT, BUT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE. WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH LOT. SO MY QUESTION, AND I THINK IT GOES BACK THAT IF YOU'RE DOING A RETROFIT AND BUILDING OF A SYSTEM THAT HAS A TWO L IN AS THE REFRIGERANT, ARE YOU GONNA GO BACK AND MAKE IT RETROFIT THE WHOLE THING I'LL MAKE TO MAKE 'EM DO IT UNLESS IT'S A MAJOR REMODEL? WELL, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THAT. OKAY. SO THE, THE CODE SECTION, THE TABLE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER ABOUT REMOVING THE A ONE THAT TABLE SHOWS THE, WHEN THAT SHOWS THE LIMITS OF REFRIGERANT THAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO PUT IN A SYSTEM, UH, BEFORE YOU HAVE TO PUT A FIRE READY SHAFT. SO MOST APARTMENTS THAT ARE THREE, THREE STORES OR BELOW ARE PROBABLY NOT GONNA REQUIRE THE SHAFT BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF REFRIGERANT THAT'S IN THE SYSTEM, RIGHT? SO IT'S JUST THE SHAFT IS ONLY REQUIRED WHEN [01:40:01] YOU HAVE FOUR OR FIVE COPPER LINES GOING THROUGH ONE SHAFT. AND THERE'S GONNA BE A HIGHER CONCENTRATION OF THIS REFRIGERANT AT THAT POINT IS WHEN YOU'RE GONNA REQUIRE A SHAFT WITH DETECTORS WITH EXHAUST TO, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU DO THAT ON A RETROFIT IN A BUILDING WHERE YOU HAVE NO ACCESS TO THIS SHAFT AT ALL? THEY DON'T MAKE YOU DO IT ALL RIGHT. THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YEAH, THERE'S NO WAY. I MEAN IN IN APARTMENT COMPLEX FOR THE MOST PART, YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY PUT IN A TWO TON OR MAYBE A THREE TON AT THE, IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, TWO, THREE BEDROOM APARTMENT AND THEN IT JUST DEPENDS ON, ON WHERE IT IS. FIRST FLOOR, SECOND FLOOR, YOU GOTTA, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE EQUIPMENT, BASED ON THE COPPER THAT YOU'RE RUNNING, BASED ON THE LENGTH OF THE RUN THAT YOU'RE RUNNING IT, IT'LL DETERMINE, IT'LL SHOW YOU ON THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS HOW MUCH FREON IS PROBABLY GONNA NEED. AND SO AT THAT POINT, AT THAT POINT, AT THAT POINT YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO TELL, YOU KNOW, IF I HAVE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ONLY DOING ONE, IT'S NOT REQUIRED. IT, YOU CAN'T, WE WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE YOU TEAR DOWN THE WHOLE THREE, FOUR FLOORS JUST TO RUN A FIRE READY SHAFT. YOU DON'T, YOU KNOW, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE TABLE, IT TELLS YOU, IT GIVES YOU THE LIMITS OF REFRIGERANT THAT YOU CAN HOLD. I IF YOU KNOW, FOR WHATEVER APARTMENT THAT YOU'RE DOING. SO IF YOU HAVE 10 APARTMENTS THAT ARE RUNNING THE COPPER UP THE SAME SHAFT THAT IT WASN'T REQUIRED TO BEGIN WITH, IS IT GOING TO AT SOME POINT TRIGGER YOU HAVING TO DO THIS WHEN YOU GET TO THE FIFTH UNIT THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE NOW YOU ARE ABOVE WHAT, WHAT IS THE LIMIT ON POUNDAGE? IT IT, IT'S ON THE TABLE THAT WE WERE, THAT WE PUT OFF FOR. YEAH, I THINK HIS BIGGEST QUESTION IS, IF YOU GO IN AND ALL IT TAKES IS ONE PERSON TO SAY YOU GOT ONE OF YOUR INSPECTORS THAT GO OUT THERE AND WANNA PLAY HARD HARDBALL AND SAY, LISTEN, YOU JUST PUT SIX SYSTEMS, THEY ALL GO UP TO THIS SAYING, WHERE'S YOUR SHAFT AND WHERE'S YOUR VENTILATION AND WHERE'S YOUR DETECTORS? THAT'S THE QUESTION YOU HAVE. AND I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. WE HAVE NO, YOU'RE NOT GONNA TO GO IN AND DO THAT , RIGHT? AND AND THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW WHERE THOSE FON LINES RAN. DID THEY, DID THEY RUN IN A SHAFT? DID THEY RUN IN A UP, UH, INSIDE A WALL? MOST DEPARTMENTS, THEY, THERE'S SOME SHAFTS, BUT IN REALITY THEY'RE, THEY'RE RUNNING 'EM WHEREVER THEY CAN GET 'EM. SO A BIGGER CONCERN EVEN THAN, OR NOT A BIGGER BUT A SIMILAR CONCERN IS, UM, FOR THE NEW STUFF, RIGHT? 'CAUSE IF WE'RE GONNA BE SADDLED WITH A TWO L FOR THE, FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, SO WHERE AS IT USED TO BE THAT THEY WOULD JUST RUN THE COPPER WHERE THEY COULD, NOW THEY'RE GOING TO HOW MUCH MORE, HOW MUCH OF A CHANGE IS THIS TO HAVE TO HAVE THIS SHAFT IN PLACE TO RUN? WHAT BEFORE WAS AN A ONE SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, FOUR 10 A AND NOW IT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE AN A TWO L SYSTEM. SO IT'S NOT JUST RETROFIT COST'S, IT'S MONEY. I MEAN IF IT'S, IT'S, I'M GONNA SAY FOR ADDING THE SENSORS AND THE VENTILATION, YOU'RE LOOKING AT FIVE GRAND A SHAFT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE, NOT KNOWING WHAT THE SENSORS COST YET. 'CAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE 'EM YET. IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE DESIGN OF THE ARCHITECT ENGINEER. IF YOU RUN THE COPPER ON THE OUTSIDE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT A SHAFT. IF YOU RUN YOUR COPPER, LET'S SAY YOU RUN THREE UNITS ON THIS WALL AND THREE OTHER ON THE OTHER WALL, THEY'RE NOT RUNNING TOGETHER AND YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T EXCEED THE TABLE, THEN YOU SHOULD BE OKAY. YEAH. SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA BUILD A $50 MILLION BUILDING AND RUN THE COPPER ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING TO LOOK WE'LL DO DECORATIVE. I I THINK WE'RE, THAT, THAT'S WHY I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE RESEARCH ON THIS STUFF. I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE PUNTING A LITTLE BIT AND I THINK IT'S HARD TO PUNT WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHO'S GONNA CATCH THE BALL. I MEAN THE, I MEAN LISTEN, THE, THE PROBLEM IS ONE THAT'S HARD FOR US TO COPE WITH IS THAT AGAIN, THIS DICTATE THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO USE A TWO L FROM HERE ON IS CAUSING MASSIVE PROBLEM, MASSIVE EXPENSE FOR EVERYBODY. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I I URGE US TO FIND EVERY WAY WE CAN TO, TO CIRCUMVENT THAT, UNDERCUT IT, HOWEVER MUCH IT SKIRTS THE, WHATEVER WE CAN DO AND BE MAYBE IN AN OASIS OF SANITY IN AN INSANE WORLD IF WE, YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CAN, UH, BECAUSE IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. IT'S ABSOLUTELY, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY I THINK WE'RE MAKING ANYBODY KNOWS WHAT EXPENSE IS BEING BUILT INTO THEIR LIVES WITH THIS. AND WE'RE MAKING THESE ASSUMPTIONS ON AND I I I, I COULDN'T EVEN BUY A JUG OF REFRIGERANT THE OTHER DAY WITH THIS STUFF IN IT. SO I, I HAVE NO CLUE AND I'VE BEEN OUT THERE SNIFFING IT. I'M NOT GONNA LIE TO SAY CAN I SMELL PROPANE IN IT JUST 'CAUSE I'M STICKING IN MY TRUCKS. I'M SURE I'M GONNA THE INSURANCE SAY I CAN'T INSURE YOUR TRUCK 'CAUSE YOU GOT PROPANE IN THIS INSIDE OF IT. WHO KNOWS. SO I DO THINK WE GOTTA BE REAL CAREFUL WITH THIS. OH, LET'S TABLE THIS ONE AS WELL AND, AND, UM, AND THEN WE'LL CALL IT A DAY. SO I'VE GOT US TABLING ITEMS 13 22, 28 AND 29. UM, OTHER THAN THAT, I'D ACCEPT THE MOTION TO, UM, UH, APPROVE THE ONES, UH, UP THROUGH 29, UH, WITH EXCEPTION TO THE 13 22, 28, 29. I SECOND IT A MOTION. SO MOVED. THANKS CO. THANKS COREY. CAN I GET A SECOND? I SECOND IT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. UM, ANY, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THOSE? [01:45:02] ALL RIGHT, SO THE MOTION IS TO APPROVE ALL BUT 13 22, 28 AND 29. ALL IN FAVOR? SAY YES. YES. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? SAY NO. ANY ABSTENTIONS. ALRIGHT. AND, UH, IS THERE ANY OTHER, ANYTHING ELSE ON THE AGENDA? NO, THERE WERE NO OTHER AGENDA ITEMS TO DISCUSS. GREAT, THANK YOU. THE TIME IS EXACTLY 11 O'CLOCK. THE MEETING'S ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.