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>> TATE: GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
THE TIME IS 1:11 P.M. ON THE 31ST DAY OF OCTOBER, 2024 WE'LL BEGIN OUR COUNCIL SPECIAL WORK SESSION. MADAME CLERK, COULD YOU READ THE ROLL?
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.
TODAY WE HAVE ONE ITEM ON OUR AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION. THAT IS A BRIEFING ON THE PROPOSED TRADITION FOR HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN SAN ANTONIO.
SO, ERIK, I'M GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO YOU. YOU CAN START THE
PRESENTATION. >> WALSH: THANK YOU, MAYOR.
YES. IN NOVEMBER OF 2022 WE HAD A COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST SUBMITTED BY COUNCIL MEMBERS MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ AND VIAGRAN REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT OF A PLAN TO PHASE OUT THE USE OF HORSES WITH HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN SAN ANTONIO . THE CCR WAS HEARD BY THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE IN APRIL OF THIS YEAR AND REFERRED TO THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE . STAFF ADDITIONALLY BRIEFED THE TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD, THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICES BOARD AS WELL AS THE COUNCIL COMMITTEE IN BOTH JUNE AND AUGUST OF THIS PAST SUMMER. THE AUGUST TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE MEETING, THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS REQUESTED THAT THE CITY STAFF DEVELOP TRANSITION PLANS AWAY FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN SAN ANTONIO AND TO COME TO B SESSION FOR FULL CITY COUNCIL FEEDBACK AND CONSIDERATION. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TODAY.
SO YOU'LL HEAR FROM -- WE'LL KICKOFF THE PRESENTATION BY RICK RILEY FROM THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT. WE'LL TRANSITION TO ALANNA, WHO WILL GIVE THE ENTIRE COUNCIL AN UPDATE ON THE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND SURVEY PROCESS.
AND THEN ALEX WILL ROUND OUT THE PRESENTATION IN TERMS OF WORK THAT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND READY TO WORK HAVE DONE. AND WE'LL BE LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK FROM THE ENTIRE COUNCIL TODAY TO DEVELOP THE NEXT STEPS.
RICK, KICK US OFF. >> THANK YOU, ERIK. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. MY NAME IS RICK RILEY. I'M THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT. AS THE CITY MANAGER MENTIONED, THE PURPOSE OF TODAY'S BRIEFING IS TO PROVIDE AN UPDATE ON THE COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST FOR A JUST TRANSITION FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES AND REQUEST INPUT FROM THE COUNCIL ON TRANSITION PLAN OPTIONS.
AS ERIK MENTIONED, I'LL BE PROVIDING A BACKGROUND OF CHAPTER 33, AN OVERVIEW OF THE CURRENT STATUS OF HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. AND HOW OTHER CITIES DEAL WITH HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. ALANNA WILL TALK ABOUT THE RESULTS OF THE SA SPEAKUP SURVEY AND ALEX LOPEZ WILL PROVIDE SOME BACKGROUND AND FEEDBACK FROM HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS AND DRIVERS AS WELL AS TRANSITION OPTIONS. WE'LL ASK FOR YOUR DISCUSSION AND DIRECTION. AS ERIK MENTIONED, THE CCR WAS SUBMITTED BY COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ AND COUNCILMEMBER VIAGRAN.
AND THE PURPOSE OF THE COUNCIL REQUEST WAS THREE THREE-FOLD.
IT'S A PROPOSAL TO PHASE OUT HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN THE CITY.
THEY ASKED US TO EXPLORE ELECTRIC ALTERNATIVES OR PEDICABS AND ESTABLISH A WORKFORCE TRANSITION PROGRAM FOLLOWING THE TRANSITION FROM HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES.
CITY MANAGER COVERED THE BRIEF TIMELINE. JUST TO ADD SOME THINGS IN THERE AS WELL AS A COUPLE OF TIMES BEING IN FRONT OF TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD. WE ALSO TWICE BRIEFED THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE. WE ALSO BRIEFED THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICES BOARD, CONDUCTED THE SURVEY THAT ALANNA WILL TALK TO YOU ABOUT, AND HAD MEETINGS WITH SAPD STAFF THAT MET WITH THE OWNERS OF THE FIVE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE COMPANIES. AND THEN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT MET BOTH WITH THE OWNERS AND WITH THE DRIVERS SEPARATELY TO DISCUSS TRANSITION PLANS.
SO CURRENT OPERATIONS TODAY, CHAPTER 33 GOVERNS THE OPERATION OF HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE. WE'VE ISSUED PERMITS SINCE 1865 BUT IT'S BEEN CODIFIED
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INTO ORDINANCE. THERE ARE FIVE PERMITTED HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE COMPANIES EACH HOLDING FIVE PERMITS SO 25 PERMITS FOR HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES ON THE STREET AND THEY EMPLOY ROUGHLY 81 DRIVERS . THE SAPD GROUND TRANSPORTATION UNIT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ENFORCEMENT OF CHAPTER 33.THAT UNIT IS MADE UP OF ONE SUPERVISOR AND THREE TRANSPORTATION INSPECTORS THAT ARE ON THE STREETS TO DO THAT. CHAPTER 33 REQUIREMENTS.
JUST SOME CURRENT REGULATIONS THAT PROHIBIT THE OPERATIONS.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THOSE FIRST. SO OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED OUTSIDE OF A TWO-MILE RADIUS FROM CITY HALL. IF THE TEMPERATURE IS ABOVE 95 DEGREES THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO GO OUT UNTIL THAT TEMPERATURE DROPS.
THAT TEMPERATURE IS MONITORED ON WEATHERBUG.COM. BOTH THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE OPERATORS, DRIVERS, AS WELL AS CITY STAFF HAVE ACCESS TO THAT AND THAT TEMPERATURE IS TAKEN FROM NEAR DOWNTOWN. AND THEN ON AIR QUALITY HEALTH ALERT DAYS, THEY'RE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING BETWEEN THE HOURS OF NOON AND 8:30 IN THE EVENING. INTERESTING, JUST AS A SIDE NOTE, AIR QUALITY HEALTH ALERT DAYS IN 2023, WE HAVE HAD 13. WE HAVE HAD 11 THIS YEAR.
GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHERE WE'RE AT ON THOSE. WHEN IT COMES TO THE HORSE WELFARE. SO THE HORSES HAVE TO MEET A NUMBER OF REQUIREMENTS.
THE FIRST OF WHICH IS THEY HAVE TO BE LICENSED AND EXAMINED BY THE CONTRACT VET FOR ANIMAL CARE SERVICES. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO BE OFFERED WATER AND A TEN-MINUTE BREAK BETWEEN EVERY TRIP. THEY CAN'T WORK MORE THAN EIGHT HOURS IN A 24-HOUR PERIOD AND HAVE TO HAVE 16 HOURS OF CONTINUAL REST IN BETWEEN. IF THE HORSE IS DEEMED UNFIT FOR ANY REASON: LAMENESS, OPEN SORES, MAYBE THEY'RE DEHYDRATED OR EXHAUSTED, LOSE SHOES OR UNCONTROLLED BEHAVIOR, THEY'LL PULL THEM OFF THE STREET AND THEY CAN'T WORK.
THE HORSE ALSO HAS TO BE AT LEAST THREE YEARS OLD AND WEIGH AT LEAST 1200 POUNDS.
SO THAT COVERS THE HORSE REGULATION PIECE OF IT. THIS GIVES YOU AN IDEA.
I TALKED EARLIER ABOUT THE PROHIBITION OF OPERATING OUTSIDE OF A TWO-MILE RADIUS OF CITY HALL. THE MAP HERE DEPICTS WHAT THAT RADIUS IS CURRENTLY SO YOU CAN SEE HOW FAR NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, AND WEST THAT THEY CAN OPERATE.
SOME ADDITIONAL RULES AND REGULATIONS ON HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES.
FIRST ONE THERE IS WHERE THEY CAN'T OPERATE. SO THEY ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING ON HOUSTON BETWEEN FLORES AND SOUTH ALAMO. THAT'S THE MAJESTIC TRAFFIC LANE. YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW CROWDED THAT CAN GET, ESPECIALLY ON A FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY NIGHT IF THERE'S A SHOW IN TOWN.
LOSOYA, IT'S A ONE-WAY STREET. COMMERCE, EXCEPT FOR ROUTES FROM THE BARN. WE HAVE ONE CARRIAGE COMPANY THAT USES COMMERCE AND THEY'LL GO TO AND FROM THE BARN. AND CESAR CHAVEZ BETWEEN THE I-10, I-35, AND ST. MARY'S. ADDITIONALLY, IN THE KING WILLIAM DISTRICT THEY CANNOT OPERATE AFTER 10:30 P.M. MONDAY TO SUNDAYS. AND THEN THEY CAN'T OPERATE BEFORE NOON ON SUNDAYS AS WELL IN KING WILLIAM. HOURS OF OPERATION, YOU'LL SEE THERE MAKE A LOT OF SENSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT 9:00 A.M. TO 4:00 P.M.
TAKE A BREAK FOR RUSH HOUR TRAFFIC AND THEN FROM 6:00 P.M. TO 2:00 A.M.
SATURDAYS, SUNDAYS, AND HOLIDAYS THEY CAN OPERATE FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 2:00 A.M.
YOU SEE THE RATES THERE, THOSE ARE SET BY THE CARRIAGE COMPANIES AND MONITORED BY CITY STAFF. THE MONITORING IS REALLY TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT THEY ARE PUBLISHING TO THE CITY IS IN FACT WHAT THEY'RE CHARGING PEOPLE TO RIDE THE CARRIAGES. IF YOU THINK ABOUT A $75 PER COUPLE RIDE FOR A 20-MINUTE RIDE FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR, IT'S A $35 EXTRA CHARGE FOR EVERY EXTRA INDIVIDUAL.
YOU'RE TALKING ROUGHLY $145 FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR TO RIDE A CARRIAGE FOR 20 MINUTES.
STAGING AREAS. CURRENTLY, IT CAN BE ANY UNOCCUPIED COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. THE PRIMARILY LOCATION RIGHT NOW YOU'LL SEE THERE IS ON CROCKETT STREET ACROSS FROM THE HARD ROCK CAFE.
WE HAVE LOST A NUMBER OF CARRIAGE STANDS OVER THE YEARS DUE TO DOWNTOWN CONSTRUCTION AND SO THIS IS A CONTINUAL CHALLENGE THAT THE TEAM TRIES TO OVERCOME TO FIND PLACES TO STAGE, FOR HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES TO STAGE.
THE NEXT REQUEST WAS TO LOOK AT RESEARCH ON OTHER CITIES, WHAT CITIES ARE PERMITTING HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. WHAT CITIES HAVE PROHIBITED HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES.
AND ARE THERE ANY CITIES THAT ARE OPERATING ELECTRIC CARRIAGES, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE ASKS FROM THE COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST.
SO FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT CITIES WHERE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES ARE PERMITTED. YOU'LL SEE THERE IN TEXAS BOTH DALLAS AND AUSTIN.
DALLAS HAS ONE COMPANY WITH FIVE CARRIAGES. AUSTIN HAS A COUPLE OF
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COMPANIES. THEN YOU GET INTO INDIANAPOLIS, OKLAHOMA CITY, NEW YORK, CHARLESTON, AND ONE IN FLORIDA. EACH ONE OF THOSE REALLY MIMICS OR MIRRORS THE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT WE HAVE HERE.THERE'S A REST PERIOD REQUIREMENT FOR THOSE CITIES.
THERE'S A REQUIREMENT FOR TEMPERATURE REQUIREMENTS. WHEN YOU START GETTING UP IN NEW YORK CITY YOU TALK ABOUT BOTH A HIGH AND A LOW TEMPERATURE REQUIREMENT.
ALL OF THEM REQUIRE A VETERINARIAN TO INSPECT THE HORSES PRIOR TO LICENSING THE HORSES TO BE USED TO PULL THE CARRIAGES. HERE YOU'VE GOT CITIES BANNING HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. SO YOU'LL SEE THERE CHICAGO IS THE FIRST ONE ON THE LIST BANNED IN 2021. THEY VOTED TO BAN THEM BY NOT RENEWING LICENSES. IN APRIL OF 2020. AND THEN IT BECAME EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2021. LAS VEGAS HAD BANNED THEM AND HAS SINCE BROUGHT THEM BACK BUT NOT ON THE STRIP. THEY ARE ABLE TO OPERATE OFF STRIP, IN PARKS, THAT KIND OF AREA. SALT LAKE CITY HAD ONE COMPANY AND THEY STOPPED OPERATING. YOU'LL SEE THERE IN 2014 WHEN THE COMPANY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. SO THEY JUST DIDN'T OPEN UP THE ABILITY TO PURCHASE PERMITS AFTER THAT. CAMDEN, NEW JERSEY AND ASHEVILLE.
CCAMDEN BANNED THEM IN 1883. ASHEVILLE IN 2016. WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT ASHEVILLE IS THEY GAVE THEM TWO YEARS TO TRANSITION AWAY FROM IT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT. THE OTHER INTERESTING THING HERE -- AND YOU'LL HEAR ALEX TALK ABOUT IS THAT NONE OF THESE CITIES PROVIDED ANY TRANSITION ASSISTANCE TO THE OWNERS OR TO THE CARRIAGE DRIVERS. SO WE'RE PLOWING NEW GROUND HERE IN TRYING TO DO THAT TO MAKE SURE IF WE GO IN THAT DIRECTION WE HAVE A PLAN THAT MAKES SENSE TO THE OWNERS AND THE DRIVERS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE TAKEN CARE OF. ELECTRICAL CARRIAGES OR HORSELESS CARRIAGES.
IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE. SOME OF YOU MAY HAVE SEEN ONE OPERATING IN AND AROUND DOWNTOWN. THERE'S NO HORSE. THE PROPULSION IS VIA ELECTRICITY BATTERY, EITHER A NICAD OR LITHIUM BATTERY. CURRENTLY IN PHILADELPHIA, YOU CAN SEE THE VIDEO OF IT BEING TESTED. THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION HASN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO TREAT THOSE.
IN TEXAS WE TREAT THEM AS NEIGHBORHOOD ELECTRIC VEHICLES.
THINK OF A GOLF CART. A GOLF CART CAN OPERATE ON A PUBLIC ROAD, SO SIMILAR TO THE GOLF CART, TEXAS WILL TREAT THAT ELECTRIC CARRIAGE AS A GOLF CART.
THE PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION HASN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO TREAT THEM YET SO THEY ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO WORK ON THE STREETS, PUBLIC ROADS.
BOTH OF THE PLACES IN FLORIDA, IT'S THE SAME THING.
THEY ARE ALLOWED TO WORK IN AND AROUND PUBLIC PARKS. MT. DORA IS A CIRCLE AROUND MT. DORA LAKE THAT THEY OPERATE IN. AND THEN THE BEACH IS PRIVATE ROADS THAT THEY OPERATE IN. INTERESTING THERE, THE COST IS APPROXIMATELY $20,000. AND THERE'S NO MANUFACTURE IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW SO THESE ARE BEING MANUFACTURED OVERSEAS AND WE WOULD HAVE TO PROCURE THEM OR THE OWNERS WOULD HAVE TO PROCURE THEM FROM OVERSEAS. TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD FEEDBACK. SO INCLUDING PUBLIC COMMENT, WE HAD A VERY LARGE TURNOUT FROM ALL OF THE OWNERS OF THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE COMPANIES AS WELL AS MANY OF THE DRIVERS THAT CAME. THE ONE THING WE LEFT WAS A TAB SAYING CAN CITY STAFF WORK WITH CITY COUNCIL TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO KEEP HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES OPERATING. SO THAT WAS THE RESULT OF THE FIRST TAB. THE SECOND TAB WAS REALLY AN UPDATE AFTER WE HAD GONE TO TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE, TO PROVIDE THEM HERE'S WHAT THE COMMITTEE'S ASKING FOR AND WE WERE GATHERING THAT INFORMATION.
I TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE JUNE AND JULY MEETINGS. WE MET WITH ALL FIVE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE COMPANIES. WHEN I SAY "WE," I MEAN SAPD. THEY HAD A NUMBER OF PROPOSALS.
ONE OF WHICH WAS REDUCING OPERATING HOURS. INTERESTING FOR THE FIVE COMPANIES WERE REALLY OPEN TO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES BUT ASKED THE CITY TO PROVIDE SOME FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE IN PURCHASING THOSE. REDUCING PERMITS AND THEN REALLY ASKED FOR AN AVERAGE OF FIVE YEARS TRANSITION TIME.
THE REASON THERE IS SOME OF THOSE COMPANIES ARE HIGHLY DEBT LEVERAGED AND THE FEAR IS THAT THEY WOULD GO INTO BANKRUPTCY AND ALL OF THE ASSETS THEN WOULD BECOME THE BANKRUPTCY TRUSTEE WOULD CONTROL THOSE ASSETS. AS I MENTIONED IN JULY, WE WENT AND BRIEFED THE ANIMAL CARE SERVICES BOARD. REALLY NO FEEDBACK FROM THEM. IT WAS AN INFORMATIONAL BRIEF TO THEM.
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NO QUESTIONS ASKED BACK TO STAFF. AT THIS TIME I'LL INVITE ALANNA UP TO TALK ABOUT THE SURVEY.>> THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M ALANNA, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS AND ENGAGEMENT AND OUR TEAM WAS TASKED WITH HOSTING A SURVEY TO UNDERSTAND HOW RESIDENTS, TOURISTS, AND INDUSTRY STAKEHOLDERS FEEL ABOUT A PROPOSAL TO BAN HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
THE SURVEY WAS AVAILABLE IN ENGLISH AND IN SPANISH AND THE SURVEY RAN BETWEEN JULY 25 AND AUGUST 13. IT TOOK PEOPLE AN AVERAGE OF TWO MINUTES AND TWO SECONDS TO COMPLETE. AND THE QUESTIONS ASKED: ARE YOU A TOURIST, RESIDENT, OR BUSINESS OWNER? HAVE YOU RIDDEN IN A HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE? IF YES, WHAT DID YOU LIKE ABOUT IT? IF NOT, WHY NOT? WHAT OPTIONS TO HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, IF ANY, THEY LIKED BEST.
THERE WERE ALSO OPTIONAL DEMOGRAPHIC QUESTIONS. THE CITY RECEIVED OVER 50,000 RESPONSES TO THE SURVEY WITH A 94% COMPLETION RATE.
77% OF THE RESPONDENTS CAME FROM SAN ANTONIO RESIDENTS. 21.6 IDENTIFIED AS TOURISTS.
AND 1.3 SAID THAT THEY WERE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS OWNERS. 51.98% OF THE RESPONDENTS THOUGHT THAT THE CITY SHOULD TRANSITION HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES TO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES OR PEDICABS AND BAN HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES COMPLETELY.
29% ALTERNATIVE HOURS DOWNTOWN AND EXPAND OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN.
AND 7.9% WANTED THE CITY TO CONTINUE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES WITH ALTERNATE HOURS AND MOVE OPERATIONS OUTSIDE DOWNTOWN IN CITY PARKS.
THESE TOTALED 48%. ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER ALEX LOPEZ WILL NOW PRESENT FEEDBACK FROM HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS AND OPERATORS AND A PROPOSED WORKFORCE
TRANSITION OPTION. >> THANK YOU, ALANNA. GOOD AFTERNOON, MAYOR AND COUNCIL. I'LL START OFF BY SHARING SOME DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION FROM HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATORS, WHICH YOU MIGHT HEAR ME REFER TO THEM AS DRIVERS. WE GATHERED THIS INFORMATION DURING TWO FEEDBACK SESSIONS THAT MIKE RAMSEY AND THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT TEAM HOSTED WITH THEM.
PLEASE NOTE THAT SOME OF THE NUMBERS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FROM RESPONSE TO RESPONSE BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT REQUIRED TO ANSWER EVERY QUESTION THAT WE ASKED. AT A HIGH LEVEL, DRIVERS WERE PRIMARILY FEMALE WITH A RELATIVELY EVEN AGE DISTRIBUTION. THE VAST MAJORITY OF OPERATORS HAD AT LEAST A HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA OR SOME COLLEGE OR POST-SECONDARY CREDENTIAL. BUT SOME HAD ACTUALLY EARNED ASSOCIATE'S, BACHELOR'S AND MASTER'S DEGREES. DISTRIBUTED BETWEEN FIVE TO TEN YEARS AND 11 TO 20 YEARS IN THE FIELD . 80% INDICATED THEY WORK MORE THAN 35 HOURS PER WEEK AND 70% INDICATED THEY EARNED OVER $50,000 ANNUALLY WITH 25% REPORTING EARNING OVER $90,000. AND FOR CONTEXT, I'LL ADD THAT HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATORS ARE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS SO THEY ARE THEREFORE RESPONSIBLE FOR SELF-EMPLOYMENT A SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY OF OPERATORS EXPRESSED NO CONCERNS WITH THEIR ABILITY TO OPERATE AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE.
HOWEVER, A SIMILARLY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF OPERATORS INDICATED THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED IN DRIVING AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE.
SHOULD HORSE DRAWN, YOU'RE CARRIAGES BE BRAND, 55.65% SAID THEY COULD SEEK OTHER EMPLOYMENT. 8.8% INDICATED THEY WOULD FINISH A COLLEGE DEGREE, AND 39.1% NOT SURE. ONLY 12.8% INDICATED ASSISTANCE FOR JOB TRAINING SERVICES, WITH AN ADDITIONAL 43.5% INDICATING A POTENTIAL INTEREST.
THE REMAINING 44.7% WERE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS TYPE OF HELP.
WHILE THE SURVEY QUESTIONS CAPTURED QUANTITATIVE DATA, WE ALSO GAVE THEM A CHANCE TO SHARE QUALITATIVE VERN RESPONSES DURING THE SESSIONS.
I'M GOING TO SHARE SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THAT FEEDBACK.
FOR EXAMPLE, MANY OPERATORS WERE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT HORSES WHICH WAS THE PRIMARY ARENA THEY GOT INTO THIS WORK. SOME HAVE INVESTED
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SIGNIFICANT TIME IN PREPARING FOR THIS CAREER INCLUDING TRAINING AND ACQUIRING THE NECESSARY SKILLS. AMONG THE PRIMARY CONCERNS THAT THEY SHARED WAS THE LOSS OF A JOB THAT OFFERS FLEXIBLE WORK HOURS AND STRONG EARNINGS, MAKING THIS PARTICULARLY ATTRACTIVE FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH CARE-GIVING RESPONSIBILITIES. WE ALSO HEARD CONCERNS ABOUT RIPPLE EFFECTS ON RELATED BUSINESSES AND STAFF INCLUDING FARRIER'S STALL CLEANERS, FEED PROVIDERS AND VETERINARIANS. HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATORS SEE IT AS A FORM OF ENTERTAIN AND THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE UNIQUELY TO OUR CITY'S TOURISM INDUSTRY.LASTLY, OPERATORS CITED EMPLOYMENT BARRIERS TO TRANSITION INTO OTHER JOBS INCLUDING JUSTICE SYSTEM INVOLVEMENT, DISABILITY STATUS, AND THE NEED FOR SIGNIFICANT UPSCALING TO MAINTAIN THEIR CURRENT INCOME LEVELS.
MANY ARE SINGLE MOTHERS AND RECENT FIRST-TIME HOMEOWNERS, SO THIS ADDED A SENSE OF URGENCY FOR THEM TO MAINTAIN THE STEADY EMPLOYMENT AND INCOME.
IN SUMMARY, THEIR FEEDBACK EMPHASIZED THE NEED FOR A THOUGHTFUL AND INCLUSIVE APPROACH ON ANY REGULATORY CHANGES, ENSURING TRANSITION SUPPORTS THOSE AFFECTED AND CONSIDERS THE ECONOMIC IMPACT FOR THESE CHANGES. I'LL SHIFT OVER NOW TO THE FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED FROM THE CARRIAGE BUSINESS OWNERS.
STAFF CONDUCTED AT LEAST ONE MEETING WITH EACH OF THESE BUSINESS OWNERS WITH SOME OF THEM ACTUALLY GETTING MULTIPLE MEETINGS. IN SUMMARY, THE BUSINESS OWNERS SHOWED LITTLE INTEREST IN COLLABORATING WITH RESCUE GROUPS, CITING CONCERNS ABOUT HORSE WELFARE AND THE POTENTIAL FOR NEED TO LIQUIDATE THEIR ASSETS TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE BUSINESS DEBT THAT THEY HAVE. ALL BUSINESS OWNERS HAVE CONDUCTED SOME LEVEL OF RESEARCH INTO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AND THEY DID EXPRESS SOME INTEREST IN A TRANSITION. HOWEVER, THEY NOTED SEVERAL CHALLENGES INCLUDING THEIR PERCEPTION OF SIGNIFICANTLY LESS PUBLIC INTEREST IN ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AND THAT THE FARE THAT AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE COULD COMMAND WOULD BE SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN A HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE. THERE WAS AN ASSUMPTION THAT MAINTENANCE COSTS FOR ELECTRIC CARRIAGES WOULD BE LOWER, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ANY RELIABLE DATA RIGHT NOW TO CONFIRM THAT. AND MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, THE LACK OF DOMESTIC MANUFACTURERS FOR ELECTRIC CARRIAGE WAS IDENTIFIED AS THE MOST SUBSTANTIAL RISK. JUST FOR CONTEXT, WE HAD ONE BUSINESS OWNER THAT HAD ALREADY ENGAGED A MANUFACTURER IN CHILDREN TO TRY TO OBTAIN AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE AND HE WAS BEING ASKED TO PAY FOR HALF UP FRONT THEN HE WOULD NEED TO PAY THE OTHER HALF BEFORE THEY WOULD SHIP IT.
SO ON A DIFFERENT POINT BUT STILL ON THE BUSINESS FEEDBACK, THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED IN EXPANDING THE PERIMETER THAT THEY ARE CURRENTLY ALLOWED TO OPERATE BECAUSE REALLY YOU SAW THE MAP, THEY CAN GO ALL THE WAY PAST THE PEARL ALL THE WAY DOWN TO KING WILLIAM. THEY DIDN'T THINK EXPANDING THAT WOULD BE NEEDED IN ANY WAY. AGAIN BECAUSE THEY SEE THE RIDE, THEY SEE THIS AS AN ENTERTAINMENT NOT NECESSARILY A MODE OF TRANSPORTATION.
SO THIS IN PART ALSO EXPLAINS WHY THE TRANSITION TO PEDICABS IS NOT SOMETHING THEY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN. THEY FEEL THEY'VE ALREADY INVESTED SIGNIFICANTLY INTO HORSES AND THEIR CARE, AND THEY ARE ALSO WORRIED THAT THE DRIVERS, THE CARRIAGE OPERATORS, WOULD NOT BE INTERESTED IN THAT TRANSITION BECAUSE OF THE DEMANDS IN OPERATING A PEDICAB. THE BUSINESS OWNERS EXPRESSED CONCERN WITH THE WELFARE OF THE ANIMALS, WITH THE FINANCIAL WELL-BEING OF THE OPERATORS, BUT MOST SIGNIFICANTLY IT WAS THEIR FINANCIAL WELL-BEING AND THE IMPACT ON THEIR BUSINESSES THEY WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT.
OWNERS DISCLOSED VARYING LEVELS OF FINANCIAL INVESTMENT INCLUDING SIGNIFICANT DEBT INCURRED BY THESE -- TO BUY THESE COMPANIES, TO MAINTAIN AND IMPROVE STABLES, AND FOR HORSE PURCHASES. THEIR DEBT RANGED FROM $67,000 TO $700,000 WITH REPAYMENT TERMS FROM 2028 TO 2050.
THE SOURCES OF THESE LOANS WERE SBA. THERE WAS SOME PRIVATE BANK LOANS. AND THEN THERE WAS OBLIGATIONS TO FORMER BUSINESS OWNERS AND TO FAMILY MEMBERS. MONTHLY DEBT SERVICE RANGED, BUT IT WAS AS HIGH AS $17,000 PER MONTH. AND THEY ALSO REFERENCED THE
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ONGOING EXPENSES ASSOCIATED WITH HORSE CARE AND FEEDING, WASTE MANAGEMENT AND STABLE OPERATIONS. AND LASTLY THEY WORRIED ABOUT RETAINING OPERATORS DURING THE TRANSITION PHASE. SO THE FOLLOWING TRANSITION PLANS WERE DEVELOPED IN RESPONSE TOD REQUEST FROM THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE.EACH PLAN INCLUDES THREE SECTIONS. CHANGES TO CITY CODE, STRATEGIES FOR BUSINESS OWNERS, AND THEN THE TRANSITION STRATEGIES FOR THE WORKFORCE. IN MANY CASES THE ITEMS IDENTIFIED IN EACH OF THESE SECTIONS MAY REPEAT FROM PLAN TO PLAN. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING THE TIME IN WHICH THEY WOULD BE IMPLEMENTED. EACH PLAN ALSO ASSUMES THAT CITY COUNCIL WOULD TAKE ACTION TO IMPLEMENT THE NECESSARY REGULATORY CHANGES IN LATE 2024 OR EARLY 2025. EXISTING HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS EXPIRE IN SEPTEMBER OF 2025 AND UNDER THE 12-MONTH PLAN, THEY WILL ONLY BE RENEWED UNTIL MARCH OF 2026. THIS PLAN WOULD NOT INCLUDE ANY CHANGES TO OPERATING HOURS OR OPERATIONAL PERIMETER, BUT IT DOES REQUIRE STAFF ESTABLISH A IMPLEMENT PROTOCOLS AND PROCEDURES TO ISSUE ELECTRIC CARRIAGE PERMITS BY SEPTEMBER OF 2025. NO MORE THAN 25 ELECTRIC CARRIAGE PERMITS WILL BE ISSUED WITH A LIMIT OF FIVE PER BUSINESS. FOR THE FIRST TWO YEARS ONLY EXISTING CARRIAGE OWNERS WOULD BE ALLOWED TO RECEIVE THOSE PERMITS.
BUSINESS OWNERS, THEY SHOULD IMMEDIATELY ADJUST THEIR FINANCIAL OBJECTIONS AND EXPLORE OPTION TO MITIGATE REVENUE LOSSES INCLUDING ALTERNATE BUSINESS MODELS, PLANNING FOR ASSET DISTRIBUTION AND DEBT RESTRUCTURE AND EXPLORE FINANCING OPTIONS INCLUDING THE CITY'S ZERO PERCENT INTEREST PROGRAM WITH LYFT FUND. STRATEGIES FOR WORKFORCE TRANSITION START WITH A SHORT-TERM PHASE FROM JANUARY THROUGH APRIL OF 2025 WHICH WILL FOCUS ON INTAKE AND ASSESSMENT SERVICES. DURING MONTHLY RESOURCE FAIRS, OPERATORS WILL RECEIVE GUIDANCE ON NAVIGATING RESOURCES AND ENROLLING IN PROGRAMS TAILORED TO THEIR INTEREST AND ABILITIES INCLUDING READY TO WORK. MONTHLY WORKSHOPS WILL INTRODUCE TO SAN ANTONIO'S IN-DEMAND TRAINING. THE EXPECTED WAGES FROM THOSE OCCUPATIONS AND THE CAREER GROWTH POTENTIAL WITHIN THEM. ONCE ELIGIBILITY HAS BEEN STOBBED AND THEY ARE ENROLLED IN READY TO WORK, EDUCATION LEVEL ASSESSMENTS WILL BE COMPLETED AND CAREER COACHES WILL HELP EACH OPERATOR IDENTIFY EXISTING SKILLS AND EXPLORE TRANSFER INTO A NEW PROFESSION. A CAREER PLAN WILL BE DEVELOPED AND OPERATORS INTERESTED IN PATHWAYS ALIGNED WITH READY TO WORK WILL RECEIVE TUITION ASSISTANCE TO THE PROGRAM AS WELL.
FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN ENTREPRENEURSHIP WHICH DURING THOSE WORK SESSIONS WE DID HEAR FROM SOME OPERATORS THAT WERE INTERESTED IN STARTING THEIR OWN BUSINESS, WE COULD CONNECT THEM WITH LAUNCH SA TO HELP WITH DEVELOPING A BUSINESS PLAN AND WITH LYFT FUND AGAIN FOR THE ZERO PERCENT INTEREST LOAN PROGRAM TO CAPITALIZE IF THAT'S THE PATH THEY WANT TO TAKE.
MID-TERM STRATEGIES. THIS WOULD BE FROM MAY THROUGH AUGUST OF 2025 AND FOCUSED ON TRAINING AND SUPPORT SERVICES. IN ADDITION TO THE ASSISTANCE PROVIDED THROUGH READY TO WORK, CARRIAGE OPERATORS WILL BE ENCOURAGED TO VISIT AMERICAN JOB CENTERS OPERATED THROUGH WORKFORCE SOLUTIONS ALAMO WHERE THEY CAN GET EMPLOYMENT SPECIALISTS TO HELP THEM WITH USING LABOR MARKET TOOLS TO MATCH THEIR SKILLS WITH IN-DEMAND OCCUPATIONS.
WORKFORCE SOLUTION ALAMO WILL ALSO PROVIDE JOB-SEEKING SERVICES TO OPERATORS WHO MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE DISLOCATED WORKER PROGRAM WHICH IS PART OF THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE INVESTMENT AND OPPORTUNITY ACT.
BUT THERE IS ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY FOR FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE THROUGH A JOB TRAINING PROGRAM. FROM SEPTEMBER OF 2025 TO APRIL OF 2026 THE FOCUS WILL BE ON EMPLOYMENT TRANSITION. OPERATORS NEARING THE COMPLETION OF THEIR TRAINING WILL RECEIVE SUBPOENA FORT FROM JOB SPECIALISTS TO SUPPORT A SMOOTH TRANSITION INTO CAREERS. THIS WILL INCLUDE ASSISTANCE WITH RESUMÉ PREPARATION, INTERVIEW PRACTICE AND HOSTED JOB FAIRS WITH EMPLOYERS IN THEIR FIELD OF TRAINING. WITH THE 24-MONTH TRANSITION OPTION, PERMITS WOULD BE RENEWED THROUGH SEPTEMBER OF 2027. PROVIDING BUSINESSES THE
[00:30:01]
OPPORTUNITY TO CONTINUE OPERATIONS AND GENERATE REVENUE DURING PEAK HOLIDAY SEASONS FROM 2025 AND 2026. THIS OPTION INCLUDES A 25% DECREASE IN OPERATING HOURS STARTING IN APRIL OF 2026. ALL OTHER STRATEGIES ASSOCIATED WITH ELECTRIC CARRIAGE OPERATION, BUSINESS OWNER AND WORKFORCE TRANSITION, THEY REMAIN THE SAME. THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IS THE TIME THE BUSINESS OWNERS AND THE OPERATORS WOULD HAVE H TO GENERATE ADDITIONAL REVENUE AND TO MITIGATE THE FINANCIAL IMPACT AND TO EXPLORE ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS BOTH ON THE WORKFORCE SIDE AND ON THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGE SIDE.LASTLY WITH THE 36-MONTH OPTION, PERMITS WOULD BE RENEWED THROUGH MARCH OF 2028. AGAIN NOW THIS WOULD PROVIDE THREE PEAK HOLIDAY SEASONS FOR THESE BUSINESSES AND FOR THE DRIVERS TO BE ABLE TO GENERATE REVENUE.
BUT THIS IS BALANCED WITH A 25% DECREASE IN OPERATING HOURS STARTING IN APRIL OF 2026 AND THEN ANOTHER DECREASE OF 25% IN APRIL OF 2027.
ALL OTHER STRATEGIES STAY THE SAME AGAIN, ONLY DIFFERENCE BEING TIME TO IMPLEMENT AND TO RESEARCH. IN CLOSING, I JUST WANT TO THANK -- YOU HEARD FROM A COUPLE DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS ALREADY. I WANT TO THANK BRENDA AND MIKE BECAUSE THEIR TEAMS HELPED ENGAGE WITH BUSINESS OWNERS AND DRIVERS AND HELP DEVELOP THE STRATEGIES WE INCLUDED TODAY. WE'RE HERE TO GET FEEDBACK
AND ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ALEX AND TEAM FOR THE PRESENTATION. WE'LL GET RIGHT INTO COUNCIL DISCUSSION, AGAIN FEEDBACK FOR OUR STAFF ON THE TRANSITION PLAN.
THIS IS FOR BRIEFING ONLY AT THIS POINT. COUNCILMEMBER PELÁEZ.
>> PELÁEZ: THANK YOU. THANKS TO EVERYBODY WHO GAVE US INPUT.
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TOOK THEIR TIME TO FILL OUT THEIR SURVEY, THAT'S NOT UNIMPORTANT, IN FACT IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET FOLKS TO SHOW UP AND GIVE RESPONSES.
IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, WE HAD MORE PEOPLE THAN WE EVER EXPECTED SHOW UP FOR THIS REALLY REFLECTING HOW IMPORTANT THEY THINK THIS ISSUE IS TO THEM.
AND SO I'VE HEARD, PEOPLE SAY CITY COUNCIL IS NOT LISTENING TO US.
WE DO LISTEN. I'VE LISTENED TO THE VOICES IN FAVOR OF THIS PROPOSAL TO RESTRICT OPERATIONS DOWNTOWN, I'VE LISTENED TO THE VOICES IN OPPOSITION.
FOR OUR CARRIAGE INDUSTRY, I'VE HEARD THE OBJECTIONS LOUD AND CLEAR.
I'VE HEARD THE OBJECTION THAT WHAT Y'ALL ARE SAYING AT CITY COUNCIL IS WE DON'T TREAT OUR HORSES HUMANLY, THAT'S NOT TRUE. WE LOVE THEM, TREAT THEM GREAT, TREAT THEM AS IF THEY WERE OUR FAMILY MEMBERS. THE OTHER OBJECTION IS THE RULES YOU HAVE PUT IN PLACE ALREADY ARE STRINGENT AND WE DON'T VIOLATE THEM, THEREFORE THIS IS UNFAIR. NUMBER THREE, THESE ARE HAPPY DRAFT HORSES AND THEY WILL BE DISTRESSED IF WE PUT THEM OUT TO PASTURE. NUMBER FOUR, WE MAKE A LOT OF MONEY AND IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR US TO MAKE THAT KIND OF MONEY DOING OTHER THINGS. AND I GET THAT. I'LL LET MY COLLEAGUES ADDRESS THE ANIMAL CRUELTY OR THE ANIMAL NEGLIGENCE OR SUFFERING COMPONENT OF IN.
I'M NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THAT. FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, FOR THE SAKE OF MY COMMENTS, LET'S ASSUME THAT ALL THE OBJECTIONS, THE FOUR OR FIVE I JUST LISTED ARE CORRECT. THAT THERE'S NO LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT TO MAKE TO OVERCOME THOSE OBJECTIONS.
ONE, WE ARE A CITY THAT GETS ABOUT 40 MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR.
MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE COME TO SAN ANTONIO IN THEIR CARS. 30 MILLION PEOPLE DRIVE INTO SAN ANTONIO AND THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THEM COME TO VISIT OUR DOWNTOWN. TWO, THIS WHOLE -- YOU KNOW, THIS PHENOMENON OF HORSES DROPPING DEAD OR SUFFERING HEAT STROKE ON PUBLIC STREETS IS NOT FAN FANTASTICAL, NOT MADE UP AND THE WAY WE KNOW THAT IS WHENEVER A HORSE DROPS DEAD OR COLLAPSES ON THE STREET, THE TOURISTS TAKE OUT THEIR PHONES AND START POSTING TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND IT'S A MATTER OF TWO DAYS THOSE VIDEOS GET MILLIONS OF HITS.
WHAT'S NOT UP FOR DEBATE IS THAT OUR TOURISM BRAND IS A TRUSTED BRAND AND IT MAY BE ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ASSETS THAT THE CITY OWNS. AND HORSE DEATHS OR HORSE
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COLLAPSES ON THE STREETS WOULD DO INCALCULABLE DAMAGE FOR THAT BRAND.AND THAT INDUSTRY IS WAY TOO IMPORTANT TO US, THE WHOLE INDUSTRY IS WAY TOO IMPORTANT TO US AND WE'VE PUT SO MUCH WORK TO MAKE SURE WE WRAP THAT INDUSTRY IN BUBBLE WRAP AND PROTECT AT ALL COSTS. SET ASIDE FOR THE FACT -- NO, DON'T SET ASIDE, WE KNOW THAT CONVENTIONEERS PICK AND CHOOSE THE CITIES ON WHETHER OR NOT THE CITIES HAVE HAD RECENT CONTROVERSY. THAT'S NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
WE KNOW THAT HAPPENS, THEY CHOOSE AND PICK CITIES BASED ON THE VALUES THE CITIES ESPOUSE. WE ALSO KNOW THAT A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE SURROUNDING AREA, THEY ARE SICK AND TIRED OF THESE HORSES CLOMPING THROUGH THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. I'VE SPOKEN TO SAN ANTONIANS ALL OVER THE CITY WHO EXPRESS MORE SUPPORT FOR INCLUDING HORSES FROM DOWNTOWN THAN KEEPING THE HORSES DOWNTOWN. I'VE YET TO HEAR ANYBODY CONTRADICT THOSE FACTS.
THOSE ARE -- YOU ARE WELCOME TO DEBATE THEM, BUT THEY ARE NOT CONTROVERTIBLE.
SO I UNDERSTAND THE PHASE-OUT PLAN. WE TALKED ABOUT A ONE YEAR OR 24 MONTH, RIGHT. THERE WAS EVEN A CONVERSATION AUDIO] ATTENTION TO THE FACT IT WAS FRUSTRATING BACK THEN, IT'S FRUSTRATING WE'RE HEARING ABOUT THIS TODAY. THE CCI SIGNED IN 2024, I THINK I WAS SIGNATURE NUMBER 4, IT WAS FILED IN 2022. TWO YEARS LATER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS DEAL.
WE DID AN AIRPORT DEAL FAST TORE THAN THAT. WE DID A BASEBALL, 126 MILLION-DOLLAR BASEBALL DEAL IN RECORD TIME, IN BREAKNECK SPEED.
AND THIS TOOK TWO YEARS JUST TO COME AND TELL US WHAT PEOPLE IN SAN ANTONIO SAID? I DON'T GET IT, RIGHT? AND SO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THOSE TWO YEARS, NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A ONE, TWO, THREE, FIVE, SEVEN-YEAR PHASEOUT, WHATEVER CHOICE WE ZERO IN ON, I THINK IT WOULD BE DISHONEST TO IGNORE THE FACT THERE'S BEEN A TWO-YEAR RUNWAY -- YOU GOT A TWO-YEAR RUNWAY THAT THIS JUMBO JET HAS BEEN ROLLING DOWN VERY SLOWLY INTO THE HANGAR AND NOBODY IN THIS ROOM, NOBODY SHOULD BE SURPRISED THIS IS WHERE WE ENDED UP. NOBODY IN THIS ROOM SHOULD BE SURPRISED WE ARE EVENTUALLY GOING TO PROHIBIT OR PHASE OUT THE HORSES FROM DOWNTOWN.
THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. THAT MEANS THAT BECAUSE -- I MEAN THE ADVANTAGES IS BECAUSE OF OUR BUREAUCRATIC FOOD DRAGGING, THE INDUSTRY IS GIVEN EXTRA TIME TO PREPARE FOR THIS. THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS [INAUDIBLE] OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS KNOWING THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO END UP. WHAT HAS THE INDUSTRY BEEN DOING TO PREPARE FOR THIS. THE ONLY EVIDENCE I HAVE THE INDUSTRY HAS DONE ANYTHING, THEY'VE TWEETED A LOT AT US AND FACEBOOKED AND CALLED EVERYBODY MONSTERS AND WHATEVER AND PUT UP SOME OF THESE STRAW MEN OBJECTIONS, BUT NOTHING HAS CHANGED.
SO I'M FOR PROHIBITING THESE HORSE CARRIAGES FROM OPERATING DOWNTOWN YESTERDAY. TO ME ONE YEAR SEEMS TOO MUCH.
THERE'S A LADY IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY NAMED KATIE JARRELL.
CAN YOU COME UP? SHE'S THE VICE PRESIDENT FOR THIS NORTH AMERICAN GROUP CALLED THE ANIMAL POLICY GROUP, A TRUSTED ADVISOR TO CITIES AND COUNTIES AND OTHER GOVERNMENT INDUSTRY GROUPS ON THIS VERY ISSUE OF HOW TO MAKE THEIR POLICIES MORE COMPASSIONATE, SMARTER, STRONGER. KATIE, YOU AND I WERE TALKING EARLIER, THIS IS SOMETHING YOUR GROUP HAS STUDIED, ALL THE OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE DONE THIS, WHAT ARE THE PHASEOUT PERIODS THEY'VE ADOPTED?
>> FIRST OF ALL -- HAPPY HALLOWEEN, EVERYONE. I WOULD SAY THE LONGEST PHASEOUT PERIOD I'VE SEEN, MAYBE NOTED IN ONE OF THE SLIDES, WAS ASHEVILLE AT TWO YEARS. THE MAJORITY OF CITIES HAVE GIVEN ONE YEAR OR LESS.
>> PELÁEZ: BASED ON THE RESEARCH YOU HAVE DONE, IS THERE A REASON WHY SAN ANTONIO IS AN OUTLIER, IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'VE SEEN THAT MAKES US AN OUTLIER THAT REQUIRES US TO CONSIDER MORE THAN TWO YEARS.
>> I HAVEN'T. >> PELÁEZ: THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS.
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER PELÁEZ. COUNCILMEMBER
MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: THANK YOU, MAYOR.
IT'S BEEN ALMOST TWO YEARS SINCE I FIRST FILED THIS COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST WITH COUNCILMEMBER VIAGRAN AND IN RESPONSE TO CALLS FOR THIS DISCUSSION.
THERE WERE PETITIONS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ASKING FOR THE END OF THE USE OF THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE. THE CCR WAS FILED ON NOVEMBER 28, 2022 AND CALLED
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FOR THE END OF HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES ON DECEMBER 31, 2023.ALMOST A YEAR AGO. THE CCR WAS SIGNED BY ME, COUNCILMEMBER VIAGRAN, COUNCILMEMBER ROCHA GARCIA, COUNCILMEMBER PELÁEZ AND FORMER COUNCILMAN ANA SANDOVAL. THE ORIGINAL TEXT REQUESTED A ONE-YEAR BAN.
AND IT'S DRAWN ON AND BEEN MET WITH A MIX OF O MISSILE, EXCITEMENT AND RESISTANCE AND OPPOSITION. IN THOSE TWO YEARS THE GOAL POST MOVES.
IN EVERY MEETING WE DISCUSS THIS THERE'S A NEW REASON FROM OPERATORS NOT TO BAN AND PHASE OUT THE INDUSTRY. WE KNEW THIS WOULD BE HARD AND DIFFICULT AND LIFE-CHANGING CONVERSATION TO HAVE. EARLIER WHEN THE CCR WAS HEARD AT THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE, I REQUESTED AS WE WERE DISCUSSING AN INDUSTRY AND ITS ASSOCIATED WORKFORCE AND LABOR THAT IT GO TO THE WORKFORCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE. INSTEAD THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE SENT IT TO THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE CHAIRED BY COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF OUR CONVERSATION WAS THE NEGATIVE IMPACTS OF A BAN, HOW WE CAN MITIGATE EFFECTS THROUGH OUR READY TO WORK PROGRAM AND OTHER SUPPORT MECHANISMS. IT WAS ABOUT ECONOMIC AND WORKFORCE LABOR. AS A RESULT THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, SAPD AND THE COMMUNICATIONS AND ENGAGEMENT TEAM DID A TAKE NOMINAL JOB TO THE BROADER SAN ANTONIO COMMUNITY TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
COMMITTEES WHY IN A SENSE ARBITRARY. COMMITTEES ARE ASSIGNED POLICY DISCUSSIONS, BUT THOSE DISCUSSIONS TAKE THE DIRECTION THAT THOSE FIVE COUNCILMEMBERS WANT THE CONVERSATION TO GO IN AND THEY ARE NOT JUST GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE TITLE OF THE COMMITTEE, THEY ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE AND POLICY AT LARGE. I BELIEVE THAT REPRESENTS IN MOST OF THESE COMMITTEES THE DIVERSITY OF OUR CITY COUNCIL. SO WE CAN MIX AND MATCH WHERE A POLICY DISCUSSION LIKE THIS GOES, BUT NOTHING COMPARES TO RECEIVING FEEDBACK FROM ENTIRE CITY COUNCIL. WE DECIDED TO SEND IT TO A B SESSION SO WE AS A FULL COUNCIL COULD HAVE THIS CONVERSATION.
WHEN WE HAVE THE COMMITTEE DISCUSSION, A MAJORITY OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS FAVORED ONE OR TWO-YEAR BAN. THE OTHER TWO COMMITTEE MEMBERS WANTED A BIT MORE TRANSITION AND HONESTLY IT WAS AN IMMEDIATE OR ONE-YEAR BAN AND THE ONE YEAR, TWO YEAR FELT A LITTLE MORE FAIR. THE OTHER TWO COMMITTEE MEMBERS, COUNCILWOMAN KAUR AND COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE WANTED -- WE ASKED TO PRESENT A PHASEOUT PLAN. THAT WAS AN INTENT AND LENGTHY AND IMPORTANT DISCUSSION THAT REPRESENTED A LOT OF VIEWS I BELIEVE WE HAVE HERE ON COUNCIL AND WE DECIDED IT WAS TIME FOR ALL COUNCILMEMBERS TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE SO WE COULD GET A TRUE SENSE WHERE WE ARE AND FINALLY GET SOME RESOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS. I'M COMFORTABLE WITH PERSONALLY AND I'LL SAY THIS, I'VE SAID IT BEFORE, DECEMBER 31, 2023, I UNDERSTAND WE'RE NOT DOING THAT. I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THE ONE-YEAR OR TWO-YEAR PHASEOUT OPTIONS. THREE YEARS TO ME IS A COMPROMISE AND ANY ADDITIONAL YEARS CREATES MORE FALSE HOPE. THESE HORSES DO NOT BELONG DOWNTOWN. I HAVE FULL FAITH IN OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TEAM AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FOUND IN THE NATURE OF TRANSITION, IT'S GOING TO BE FOUND FROM THE TYPE OF FINANCIAL AND OTHER SUPPORT INCLUDING PRIORITIZING THESE OPERATORS IN OUR ZERO PERSON LOAN AND OTHER PROGRAMS THAT MAY HELP IMPROVE THEIR FINANCIAL STANDING. I'M HAPPY WITH THE OPTIONS THAT YOU'VE PROPOSED AND I'VE HEARD FROM AT LEAST ONE CARRIAGE OPERATOR AN INTEREST IN EXPEDITING THE PROCESS TO ALLOW THEM TO OPERATE THE E-CARRIAGES. THAT WOULD REQUIRE A FAST DISCUSSION OF CODE AUTHORIZING USE. IT MENTIONS AUTHORIZATION IN SEPTEMBER 2025. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT EXPEDITED, BUT I THINK THAT HAS TO COME WITH A REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF HORSES THAT CAN OPERATE.
WE CAN TALK ALL DAY ABOUT A FIVE-YEAR, TEN-YEAR PLAN, BUT ALL THAT IS IS YEARS AND YEARS OF COLLECTING MORE DEBT, INCREASING FARES, INCREASED TEMPERATURES THAT WILL REDUCE OPERATING TIME AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THE CONTINUED USE OF HORSES ON HOT ASPHALT ROADS BREATHING IN EXHAUST IN 94-DEGREE WEATHER.
IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET HARDER FOR THE INDUSTRY TO SUCCEED AND I EXPECT IF WE WERE TO TRANSITION OVER A LONGER PERIOD OF TIME THAN THAT TWO TO THREE YEARS, I WOULD DEMAND HARSHER PENALTIES AND MORE STRICT RESTRICTIONS ON OPERATIONS THAT WOULD MAKE IT SIGNIFICANTLY LESS PROFITABLE TO OPERATE.
YOU CAN VIEW THIS IN A NUMBER OF WAYS, ANIMAL WELFARE, BUT THE NEED FOR URGENCY IS THE SAME. I'M SUPPORTIVE OF ONE YEAR, TWO YEAR, THREE YEAR WITH A PRIORITY FOR IMMEDIACY. AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO SEE US ADDRESS THIS BY THE END OF
THE YEAR. THANK YOU. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK
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YOU, COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ. COUNCILMEMBER ROCHA GARCIA.>> GARCIA: THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'LL START OFF BY THANKING THE OPERATORS WHO ARE HERE, THE CARRIAGE OPERATORS AND CITY STAFF AND IN PARTICULAR TWO OF MY A.IES, RITA, I DON'T SEE -- I DON'T KNOW IF RITA IS HERE, BUT EDDIE PETE RODRIGUEZ WITH THE TAB FOR THEIR REVIEW AFTERNOON WORK ON THIS TOPIC.
A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHEN THE CCR WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED, WE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS WITH SENSITIVITY AND THOROUGHNESS AND ONE OF MY STAFF MEMBERS, EDWARD, WHO IS SOMEWHERE HERE IN THE AUDIENCE ALSO, VISITED WITH THE YELLOW ROSE AND HRH CARRIAGE COMPANIES IN MAY OF 2023. AND I I BELIEVE WE WERE ONE OF THE FEW AT THE TIME, BUT HOPEFULLY YOU'VE HAD SOME OTHER FOLKS VISIT YOUR OPERATIONS. IN THE PRESENTATION I FEEL LIKE YOU ALL DID A GOOD JOB.
OBVIOUSLY THE STAKEHOLDERS, THAT WAS A GREAT INPUT AND I LIKE YOU INCLUDED THE FACT THERE WAS LIKE 11,000 DUPLICATE, RIGHT, ADDRESSES. SO I APPRECIATE THAT YOU ALL WERE VERY THOROUGH WITH THAT. THE CCR WAS FIRST SUBMITTED, I LEARNED WE HAD A VETERINARIAN THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY I THINK DOING SOME WORK. HAVE WE REACHED OUT AND SEEN IF THERE'S A DIFFERENT OPINION OR -- ON THE TREATMENT OF THE HORSES? OR HAS ANYTHING CHANGED I
GUESS IS MY QUESTION. >> UNFORTUNATELY, MA'AM, NO. IN FACT, STAFF HAS REACHED OUT AND BEXAR, WILSON, MEDINA AND KARNES COUNTY AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SECURE A VETERINARIAN TO COME IN AND PROVIDE AN INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT OF
THE HORSES. >> GARCIA: DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT IS?
WHAT'S YOUR THEORY? >> IT'S A VERY SMALL COMMUNITY THAT PROVIDES THAT SERVICE AND THAT THE CONTRACTED VETERINARIAN OF SAN ANTONIO PROBABLY EXPRESSED SOME DISPLEASURE WITH THE WAY THE PROCESS WENT FOR HIM.
THAT IS A TOTAL GUESS. >> GARCIA: THANK YOU. ON THE SLIDE WITH THE OTHER CITIES THAT WERE PERMITTED, IS THAT AN EXHAUSTIVE LIST? AND SO -- WHILE YOU COME UP, I SEE DALLAS, SAN ANTONIO AND AUSTIN ARE THE TEXAS CITIES.
CORRECT? >> INDIANAPOLIS, OKLAHOMA CITY, DALLAS, NEW YORK, AUSTIN, THERE ARE SOME PLACES OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT THOSE WERE THE MAIN ONES THAT WE LOOKED AT, YES, MA'AM. YOU'LL SEE THE THEME IS KIND
OF A TOURISTY THEME OR WESTERN-TYPE THEME. >> GARCIA: THE CCR ASKED TO LOOK INTO ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AND PART OF THAT WAS FINANCIALLY ASSIST OPERATORS WITH PROCURING THIS. HOW WOULD THAT WORK.
I GUESS THAT'S A ALEX QUESTION. WHAT STRINGS WOULD BE ATTACHED IF WE WERE TO ASSIST WITH THE PURCHASE OF THOSE?
>> SO WE DID GET SOME FEEDBACK BECAUSE SOME OF THESE OPERATORS HAVE BEEN LOOKING INTO HOW TO ACQUIRE THESE ELECTRICAL CARRIAGES ALREADY.
SO WE DO HAVE SOME OF THAT INFORMATION. WE DID NOT FIND ANY OTHER SOURCES BEYOND WHAT THEY HAD ALREADY IDENTIFIED AS FAR AS THE FOREIGN MANUFACTURERS.
ONE OF THE OPTIONS THAT WE DID EXPLORE WHICH WAS IDENTIFIED BY SOME OF THE STAKEHOLDERS THAT WE TALKED TO WAS THE IDEA OF ASSESSING A SURCHARGE ON RIDES TO DEVELOP SOME SORT OF FUND. BUT WE WERE INFORMED WE CAN'T DO THAT.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO GET CREATIVE WITH ANY POTENTIAL WAYS WE COULD PROVIDE SOME SORT OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT TO THEM IN THE ACQUISITION OF THESE CARRIAGES.
WHAT WE'VE GOT RIGHT NOW THOUGH IS THE LOW INTEREST OR ZERO PERCENTAGE
[INAUDIBLE]. >> GARCIA: AND I SAW THAT A MAJORITY OF THEM WOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR DIFFERENT JOB TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES, ET CETERA.
SO I APPRECIATE THAT YOU ALL OFFERED AND ASKED FOR THAT. I ALSO UNDERSTAND AND I THOUGHT IT WAS THOROUGH THAT YOU DID YOUR RESEARCH ON WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER THE NEEDS AND CAKE TAKERS, -- CARETAKERS. RIGHT NOW I FEEL LIKE I WANT TO HEAR SOME MORE FROM MY COLLEAGUES BEFORE I MAKE MY DECISION ON HOW MANY YEARS, BUT I APPRECIATE THE THOROUGH WORK AND LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION AND I'LL CHIME BACK IN ON THE SECOND ROUND. THANK YOU.
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER ROCHA GARCIA.
COUNCILMEMBER WHYTE. >> WHYTE: THANKS, MAYOR. I WANT TO BEGIN, COUNCILMEMBER ALDERETE GAVITO HAD TO STEP OUT AND SHE'S ASKED ME TO READ THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT FROM HER ON THIS ISSUE. THIS IS FROM COUNCILWOMAN
[00:50:04]
ALDERETE GAVITO. MAJOR CHANGES OFTEN COME WITH CHALLENGES AND THIS SITUATION IS NO EXCEPTION. I BELIEVE IT IS TIME TO ELIMINATE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. LOCALS KNOW THE FRUSTRATION OF GETTING STUCK BEHIND ONE WHILE DRIVING AND AS OUR CITY CONTINUES TO GROW TRAFFIC CONGESTION WILL ONLY WORSEN. REMOVING THESE CARRIAGES FROM DOWNTOWN WILL ENHANCE TRAFFIC FLOW AND IMPROVE PUBLIC SAFETY. I'M CONCERNED THE SLOW TRAFFIC CAUSED BY CARRIAGES COULD HINDER [INAUDIBLE]. SOONER RATHER THAN LATER WITH A PREFERENCE FOR THE 12-MONTH OPTION. ADDITIONALLY IT IS CRUCIAL TO ENSURE THE HORSES ARE TREATED HUMANLY AND THEIR WELFARE IS PROTECTED DURING THE PHASEOUT PROCESS AND BEYOND. AGAIN, THAT WAS FROM OUR COLLEAGUE COUNCILWOMAN ALDERETE GAVITO. MY POSITION IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD ACTUALLY -- I LOOKED AT A FIVE OR A SEVEN-YEAR PHASEOUT PLAN AND WHEN I CAME TO MY DECISION YESTERDAY AFTER LOOKING AT ALL THE INFORMATION, I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD DO A 60-MONTH, WHICH IS A FIVE-YEAR PHASEOUT PLAN. HERE ARE THE REASONS.THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THE LARGEST HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE OPERATIONS TO BE SHUT DOWN IN THE COUNTRY. AS OPPOSED TO SOME OF THOSE WE SAW ON THE SCREEN EARLIER, THIS WOULD INVOLVE FIVE COMPANIES AND SHUTTING DOWN FIVE COMPANIES AND OVER 81 PERMITS. THESE COMPANIES HAVE -- AS WE KNOW, THEY'VE INVESTED A SUBSTANTIAL SUM OF MONEY INTO THEIR OPERATION AND THUS THEY HAVE A LOT OF DEBT THAT THEY NEED TO RETIRE. AFTER TALKING WITH THESE GROUPS, IT DOES NOT SEEM REASONABLE TO ME BASED ON THEIR INVESTMENT THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO RETIRE THE DEBT WITHIN ONE, TWO OR THREE YEARS. THEY TALKED TO ME ABOUT NEEDING SEVEN YEARS, BUT I BELIEVE IN LOOKING AT SOME OF THE NUMBERS AND TALKING WITH THEM FURTHER THAT WE COULD GET THIS -- THAT THEY COULD GET IT DONE IN THE 60 MONTHS. SO I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE ECONOMIC IMPACT TO THEM. ALSO THINK ABOUT THE RISK TO THE HORSES.
SHUTTING THESE FOLKS DOWN SO QUICKLY AND CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF DEBT THEY HAVE IF THESE HORSES HAD TO BE AUCTIONED OFF, WHO KNOWS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM AND I THINK WE ALL WANT TO MAKE SURE THE HORSES INVOLVED ARE TREATING HUMANELY AND ARE CARED FOR. I WANT TO READ A TEXT MESSAGE FROM ONE OF THESE HORSE DRIVERS, HORSE CARRIAGE DRIVERS NAMED LISA. SHE SAYS I'M MAKING BETWEEN 95,680 AND -- ON AVERAGE PER YEAR. I'VE BEEN A CARRIAGE DRIVER FOR FOUR YEARS AND I DO IT BECAUSE IT FULFILLS EVERY AREA OF MY LIFE.
FINANCIALLY I'M ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR MY FAMILY AS A SINGLE MOM.
EMOTIONALLY AND SPIRITUALLY I'M ABLE TO CONNECT AND CARE FOR THE HORSES I LOVE.
I LOVE BEING AROUND PEOPLE AND GIVING FAMILIES AN EXPERIENCE.
THIS JOB SUPPORTS MY ENTIRE FAMILY AND PETS AND THE INCOME WILL BE HARD TO REPLACE WITH OTHER JOBS. I AM THE ONLY PROVIDER FOR MY FAMILY.
95,000 TO $100,000 A YEAR, IN CONTRAST WHEN WE LOOK AT THE READY TO WORK PROGRAM, A MEAN ANNUAL SALARY IS $44,009. THESE FOLKS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THE HORSE CARRIAGE INDUSTRY, NOT ONLY ARE THESE COMPANIES THEIR LIVELIHOOD AT STAKE, BUT ALL THE FOLKS THAT WORK FOR THEM, THAT SUPPORT THEIR FAMILIES WITH THESE GOOD-PAYING JOBS. THOSE ARE ARE THE LINE AS WELL. ADDITIONALLY, THIS WILL HAVE A BROADER FINANCIAL IMPACT THAN JUST ON THESE BUSINESSES. NEARBY BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, ON THE STREETS WHERE THESE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES GO, THEY COULD BE AFFECTED.
THE FOLKS THAT SHOE THE HORSES, THEIR FINANCIAL LIVELIHOOD COULD BE AFFECTED. CARRIAGE MAINTENANCE PEOPLE, SUPPLIERS, VENDORS, STABLE WORKERS. THERE'S A BROAD RANGE OF BUSINESSES THAT COULD BE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY SHUTTING DOWN THESE CARRIAGES SO QUICKLY.
ADDITIONALLY I'LL TELL YOU THAT I WASN'T ON CITY COUNCIL WHEN YOU GUYS FILED
[00:55:05]
THE COUNCIL CONSIDERATION REQUEST, BUT WHEN I STARTED TO LEARN ABOUT THIS ISSUE I WAS FIRST TOLD IT WAS AN ANIMAL RIGHTS ISSUE. I THINK WHAT WE HEARD FROM THE VET THAT THE CITY CONTRACTS WITH IS THAT THIS ISN'T -- THE HORSES THAT WORK IN THIS FIELD, THEIR HEALTH AND SAFETY IS NOT REALLY AT RISK.THAT A LOT OF THEM ARE BRED TO DO THIS. I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE VET AS WELL AND HE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THESE HORSES, IF THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK ANYMORE, THE NEGATIVE AFFECTS THAT IT COULD HAVE ON THEM.
MUSCLE ATROPHY AND THE REST WHEN THEY ARE NOT BEING USED LIKE THEY ARE NOW.
AND SO I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING THAT SAYS THERE IS A THREAT TO THESE ANIMALS.
IF I HAD SEEN SOME DATA OR HEARD FROM SOME PROFESSIONALS THAT SAY THAT THESE ANIMALS ARE MISTREATED OR THAT THIS IN SOME WAY HARMS THEIR HEALTH, I MAY THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THIS. I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO OUT WITH REPRESENTATIVE JOHN LUHAN AND TOUR ONE OF THESE FACILITIES AND I SAW HOW WELL THESE HORSES ARE TAKEN CARE OF OUT THERE. SO I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN THE EVIDENCE THAT THERE'S ANY MISTREATMENT OF THESE ANIMALS OR ELSE, AGAIN, MY OPINION HERE MAY BE DIFFERENT. SO ALL OF THAT IS TO SAY IT SEEMS CLEAR THAT THE CITY COUNCIL IS READY TO ELIMINATE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES FROM DOWNTOWN. AGAIN, DESPITE THE RECOMMENDATION FROM OUR TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD. IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SET ON DOING. AND SO I WOULD ASK THAT IF THAT'S THE WAY WE'RE GOING, LET'S DO IT IN A WAY THAT IS THE MOST -- OR IS THE LEAST -- WILL HAVE THE LEAST NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THESE COMPANIES AND EMPLOYEES OF THE COMPANIES.
AND SO LET'S -- I ASK CITY COUNCIL TO CONSIDER A FIVE-YEAR, A 60-MONTH PHASEOUT FOR THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. THANK YOU, MAYOR.
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER WHYTE. COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE.
>> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MAYOR. THANK YOU, COUNCILMAN.
I APPRECIATE YOUR REMARKS. YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO START OFF BY SAYING I'M PREJUDICE ABOUT THIS SO I PROBABLY AM NOT GOING TO MAKE AS EVEN-HANDED SET OF COMMENTS AS SOME OTHERS WAY BECAUSE IVORIEDEN IN HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES.
AND I THINK THEY ARE WONDERFUL. AND I HOPE PEOPLE GET TO ENJOY THAT EXPERIENCE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO AND MANY OTHER PLACES IN THE YEARS TO COME. AS LONG AS THEY ARE OPERATED THE RIGHT WAY.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A BRIEFING SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE A DECISION, BUT I REALIZE TODAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FIVE PRIVATELY OWNED PROFITABLE BUSINESSES IN THIS CITY. THEY ARE OPERATING WITHIN THE CITY ORDINANCE REGULATIONS. THESE BUSINESSES HAVEN'T HAD ANY KIND OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES. THEY HAVEN'T HAD CITIZENS OR ANIMALS HARMED.
THESE BUSINESSES HAVEN'T HAD OR THE CITY HASN'T ON THEIR BEHALF HAD CUSTOMERS OR EMPLOYEES COMPLAINTS. THESE BUSINESSES ARE PAYING LIVABLE WAGES TO SAN ANTONIO RESIDENTS WHO NEED THIS WORK, WHO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES.
THESE BUSINESSES ARE PROVIDING A POPULAR SERVICE. THESE BUSINESSES ARE PAYING TAXES AND FEES TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. THESE BUSINESSES DO NO HARM.
BUT THIS COUNCIL IS CONSIDERING PUTTING THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.
YOU KNOW, PART OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD TODAY OR SEEN TODAY IS A SURVEY, SURVEY OF ALMOST 50,000 PEOPLE. BUT OVER 20% OF THOSE PEOPLE OR 20% OF THE RESPONSES WERE DUPLICATES OR THEY CAME FROM THE SAME PHONE NUMBER A SECOND TIME.
NOW, SOMETIMES IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A SPOUSE OR ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER OR SOMETIMES IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY WHO SAID HEY, I'M GOING TO VOTE TWICE BECAUSE I REALLY CARE ABOUT THIS ISSUE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. EITHER WAY MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN MOST SURVEYS LIKE THIS HAVE A MARGIN OF ERROR BETWEEN 2 TO 4%.
AND THE MARGIN OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE YAYS AND NAYS IS LESS THAN THAT KIND OF
[01:00:02]
MARGIN OF ERROR. OFTENTIMES THE SIDE THAT'S ON THE LOWER SIDE OF THAT MARGIN ENDS UP WINNING AND PEOPLE SAY, WOW, THEY BEAT THE ODDS.SO I'M NOT EXACTLY SOLD ON THOSE NUMBERS AS BEING WHY WE NEED TO DECIDE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. AND YES, WE CAN ADD REGULATIONS AND WE CAN REALIGN HOW THE BUSINESSES CAN OPERATE. TO LOOK FOR PROBLEMS WITH TRAFFIC CONGESTION OR CHANGES IN THE CLIMATE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE IN THIS REPORT REPORTS FROM 13 CITIES.
AND IF YOU LOOK THIS OVER, FOUR OF THOSE CITIES HAVE SHUT DOWN THEIR OPERATIONS, BUT NINE CONTINUE TO ALLOW HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES. IT'S NOT LIKE EVERYBODY WHO IS DOING THIS IS SHUTTING IT DOWN. FOUR OUT OF 13 HAVE SAID NO MORE, NINE OUT OF 13 ARE SAYING YEAH, WITH REGULATIONS OR RULES, WE CAN ALLOW HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES TO CONTINUE. YOU KNOW, THE ARGUMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, IF A HORSE DROPPED DEAD, WHAT WOULD THAT DO TO US, WELL, NO HORSE HAS DROPPED DEAD IN OUR STREETS, AND IF ONE DID, YEAH, IT WOULD BE A BLACK EYE.
BUT NO RIVER BARGE HAS SUNK IN OUR RIVER AND NO PASSENGERS DROWNED, BUT IF SOMEONE HAD, IT SURE WOULD BE A BLACK EYE TOO. BUT WOULD WE THEN SHUT DOWN OUR RIVER BARGE? SO I HAVE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS LONG AND HARD AND I'LL GO BACK TO THE FIRST THING I SAID, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING OUT OF BUSINESS FIVE PRIVATELY OWNED PROFITABLE BUSINESSES THAT PROVIDE A SERVICE THAT PEOPLE ENJOY IN THIS CITY. SO I HOPE WE DON'T DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN MAYBE CHANGE A FEW OF THE REGULATIONS IN THE REQUIREMENTS AND ALLOW THESE BUSINESSES TO CONTINUE SERVING THE COMMUNITY. THANK YOU, MAYOR.
[APPLAUSE] >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE.
COUNCILMEMBER CABELLO HAVRDA. >> HAVRDA: THANK YOU, MAYOR. AS MENTIONED TODAY WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW. ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US ON TRANSPORTATION, WE'VE HEARD BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUES, WE'VE VISITED THE OPERATOR STABLES, DISCUSSED IT WITH A LOT OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS. OF COURSE THAT SURVEY WAS DOWN AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN COMMITTEE A COUPLE OF TIMES AND IT'S FRUSTRATING BECAUSE IT'S BEEN VETTED AND TALKED ABOUT NOW FOR A A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
I THINK THE PROPOSED PLANS TO PHASE OUT THE CARRIAGES ARE FAIR AND AS STATED IT'S THE WILL OF MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN OUR CITY. I STAND BY THE CITY'S SURVEY. I'M NOT A SURVEY STATISTICIAN, BUT I KNOW THAT THE CITY TAKES CARE OF THAT AND I TRUST THAT. ALSO JUST TALKING WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS, WE CAN BE ANYWHERE, AT THE GROCERY STORE, I'VE BEEN AT THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE AND PEOPLE HAVE BROUGHT THIS UP TO ME, PEOPLE CARE ABOUT IT AND THE HORSES AND THEIR WELFARE. WE TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC PROBLEMS, THE TOURISM INDUSTRY AND OUR COMMUNITY HAS EXPRESSED A DESIRE FOR MORE MODERN, HUMANE ALTERNATIVES. ANY TIME OVER A YEAR THAT, IN MY OPINION, IT NEGATES THE INTENT OF THE CCR. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GETTING HORSES OFF THE STREET, HORSE WELFARE, WE NEED TO DO IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
PHASING OUT THE BUSINESSES, ALL OF THESE PLANS, WE'VE WORKED ON THIS A COUPLE OF YEARS. I WONDER WHAT THE INDUSTRY HAS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS TO PREPARE FOR THIS BECAUSE IT'S BEEN COMING AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS. SO THAT'S IT. I'M JUST READY TO GET THESE HORSES OFF THE STREET. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. I THINK A YEAR IS A LONG TIME, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT WE DO NEED TO WORK WITH THE BUSINESSES SO I'M GOING FOR THE LEAST AMOUNT POSSIBLE. TOURISTS ARE GOING TO KEEP COMING TO SAN ANTONIO AND THE PLAN WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE BUSINESS OWNERS AND EMPLOYEES.
COMPARINGTHIS TO SOMETHING LIKE A BARGE IS DISINGENUOUS, A LARGE IS NOT ALIVE. SOME OF THE FARRIERS SAID THEY ARE RESHOEING HORSES EVERY WEEK. THAT'S TOO FREQUENT, CLEARLY HARD ON AN ANIMAL'S BODY.
MANY CITIES HAVE MOVED AWAY FROM THESE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES AND THIS IS INCREASING AWARENESS AND ADVOCACY FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS. I VISITED, AS MENTIONED, ONE OF THE CARRIAGE FACILITIES AND I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH THE WAY THE HORSES ARE TREATED IN THEIR HOMES. I DO THINK THEY ARE VERY WELL TAKEN CARE OF.
I FED THEM AN APPLE OR TWO. BUT THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. THAT WAS NEVER THE ISSUE.
[01:05:02]
IT'S WHEN THEY ARE ON THE STREETS OF SAN ANTONIO. I'LL CLOSE WITH THAT.WE JUST NEED TO REMEMBER WHAT THE INTENT WAS ABOUT AND IT'S GOTTEN CONVOLUTED WITH OTHER ISSUES BUT THE PLAN TODAY IS ADEQUATE AND I VERY STRONGLY ADVOCATE FOR
THE YEAR. THANK YOU. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER CABELLO HAVRDA. COUNCILMEMBER VIAGRAN.
>> VIAGRAN: THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'M GOING TO START WITH TWO QUESTIONS. ONE, DO WE HAVE -- DO WE KNOW HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST TO PURCHASE THE 35 HORSES IN DISCUSSION CURRENTLY? DID ANYBODY GET THAT PRICE
FOR US? >> NO, MA'AM, WE HAVEN'T ASKED WHAT THE HORSE WOULD
COST IF IT WAS SOLD ON THE OPEN MARKET. >> VIAGRAN: SO I -- I WANT THE PRICE OF HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST TO BUY THESE 35 HORSES SO WE COULD PLACE THEM IN WHAT MY COLLEAGUES ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE RESCUES OR THESE HOMES OR THE BETTER HOMES THAT WE WANT THEM TO HAVE. I NEED THAT PRICE FIRST BECAUSE I SEE A LOT OF PLAN, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY NUMBERS TO THAT.
>> SO THE ACQUISITION COST OF SOME OF THESE HORSES HAS BEEN UPWARD OF $35,000.
AND SO ONE OF THE CONCERNS WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THE DISPLACEMENT OR DISBURSEMENT OF ASSETS WAS THE CONCERN OF HAVING THE NUMBER OF HORSES THAT WOULD NEED TO BE SOLD AT ONE TIME. SO UNFORTUNATELY THERE IS NO ACCURATE -- WE WEREN'T ABLE
TO GET A TRUE SENSE OF WHAT IT WOULD COST. >> VIAGRAN: I NEED THAT NUMBER BECAUSE WHEN THIS STARTED AND AS THE CO-AUTHOR, THIS STARTED BECAUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF TRAFFIC I SEE THIS HORSE AND IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE IT'S HAVING A GOOD TIME. AND WHEN I -- 2022, WHICH IS A LIFETIME AGO I FEEL WHEN YOU SIT ON CITY COUNCIL, THIS SEEMED LIKE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO START HAVING THAT CONVERSATION. BUT AS I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL FOR TWO YEARS, I'VE REALIZED THIS IS MORE THAN JUST HOW ARE HORSES ARE TREATED, WHAT SORT OF JOBS ARE WE PROVIDING, THIS IS ABOUT TRAFFIC DOWNTOWN. THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER CONVERSATION. BUT OUR HORSE CARRIAGES GOT PULLED INTO THIS CONVERSATION AND WE THOUGHT THIS WILL BE THE EASY FIX. WE JUST LIMIT THESE PERMITS.
THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. AND WHAT I WANTED TO HAVE WAS A CONVERSATION AND A BACK AND FORTH. AND WHAT WE GOT WAS WHEN YOU SIGN A CCR, A CCR DOESN'T MEAN IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. IT MEANS IT'S GOING TO GO FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION.
AND WE HAVE CONVERSATION. AND SO ANYBODY THAT THINKS BECAUSE I PUT MY SIGNATURE ON IT IT'S A DONE DEAL AND YOU SHOULD HAVE STARTED WORKING ON THIS TWO YEARS AGO, THAT'S A FALSEHOOD. WE START WITH CONVERSATIONS. WHAT HAPPENED IS THE CONVERSATION GOT HIJACKED INTO ANIMAL RIGHTS ISSUES AND ACCUSATIONS WERE MADE ABOUT THE HORSE TREATMENT AT THE STABLES. AND WE HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT FOR ABOUT A YEAR. HOW ARE THEY BEING TREATED AND VETERINARIANS GOT, YOU KNOW, HAMMERED IN MEETINGS AND THERE WAS THAT BACK AND FORTH.
AND EVERYTHING GOT A LITTLE PERSONAL, A LITTLE TOO PERSONAL.
SO MY TEAM WENT IN AND THEY VISITED THE HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATORS.
I HAD RESIDENTS COME AND SAY WE DO THIS FOR BIRTHDAYS, FOR DINNERS.
AND THEN I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THE ENTERTAINMENT ASPECT.
WE KEPT IT IN TRANSPORTATION. NOBODY BROUGHT IT TO EWDC, NOBODY DID A B SESSION BRIEFING UNTIL WE GET IT HERE.
AND IT WAS LEFT ON THE COUNCIL AS IT SHOULD BE TO MEET WITH THE OPERATORS AND MEET WITH THE ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, WHICH I DID. AND WHAT I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER THAT HAD TO WIND DOWN HER BUSINESS IS THAT ONE, IF IT HAPPENS IN ONE TO TWO YEARS, YOU CAN BASICALLY GUARANTEE THERE WILL BE A BANKRUPTCY PROCEEDING. AND THE CITY SHOULD NOT BE IN THE BUSINESS OF CLOSING DOWN SMALL BUSINESSES. SO WE NEED FIVE YEARS, WE NEED 60 MONTHS, I NEED A GUARANTEE THAT IN TEN YEARS WHEN I'M GONE FROM THIS SEAT THAT WE'RE NOT DOING WHAT VEGAS DID IN BRINGING BACK HORSE CARRIAGES WITH OTHER COMPANIES AFTER WE CLOSE DOWN THESE BUSINESSES. I WANT TO KNOW HOW MUCH THESE HORSES ARE GOING TO COST. IF THE CITY IS THAT MUCH INTO WE WANT TO SAVE THESE HORSES, HOW MUCH IS IT GOODING TO COST TO PURCHASE AND REHOME THESE HORSES AND
[01:10:03]
MAKE SURE THEY ARE TREATED WELL. BECAUSE MY ANIMAL LOVER SIDE OF ME IS IN CONFLICT WITH MY SMALL BUSINESS SIDE OF ME. THE SURVEY RESULTS WERE 52% TO 48%. AND THE QUESTIONS WHICH I REALLY APPRECIATE THE QUESTIONS, BUT IF THE NEXT QUESTION IS ARE YOU WILLING TO PAY 3.5 MILLION TO PURCHASE THESE HORSES AND REHOME THEM, I WONDER IF WE WOULD GET THE SAME ANSWER FROM OUR RESIDENTS. IF WE HAD GONE THAT MUCH FURTHER.THIS ISN'T A TRANSPORTATION ISSUE. AND I APPRECIATE THE SURVEY, BUT WHEN YOU TELL ME THAT YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE 28 JOBS AWAY FROM WOMEN, I HAVE A REALLY BIG PROBLEM WITH THAT. AND YOU TELL ME THAT WE HAVEN'T CONVINCED THESE 28 WOMEN THAT ARE READY TO WORK, THAT A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE IS GOING TO HELP THEM IN THEIR LIFE, WE HAVE WORK TO DO.
SO AS CO-AUTHOR, AND BELIEVE ME 2022 WHEN I SIGNED THIS, I THOUGHT THIS WAS DOABLE.
BUT WHEN IT SITS IN COMMITTEE FOR TWO YEARS IN THE LIGHT OF 2024, IN THE LIGHT OF A 20% POVERTY RATE THAT IT MOSTLY INCLUDES WOMEN, I'M NOT READY TO PUT 28 WOMEN BACK INTO POVERTY. SO WITH THAT, I STILL WANT TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION.
I THINK FIVE YEARS, I THINK THE LIFE OF THE ANIMAL IF WE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY THEM ALL AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE TAKEN CARE OF AND REHOMED WELL, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT TOO.
BUT I THINK THIS IS WHERE THE DISCUSSION BEGINS, NOT IN A COMMITTEE MEETING.
THANK YOU. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER VIAGRAN.
COUNCILMEMBER CASTILLO. >> CASTILLO: THANK YOU, MAYOR.
AND THANK YOU STAFF FOR THE PRESENTATION.
WITH THE PUBLIC OUTREACH AND CONNECTING FOLKS WITH READY TO WORK.
I DO NOT TAKE THIS CONVERSATION LIGHTLY BECAUSE WHILE WE SAY PHASING OUT HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, IT'S KILLING 81 TEXAS JOBS AND ELIMINATING FIVE SMALL WISES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. THIS IS A -- BUSINESSES IN THE STATE OF TEXAS.
WHEN WE LOOK AT THE AVERAGE INCOME FOR HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATIONS AND SEE THE MAJORITY EARN OVER $50,000 WITH 11 OF THEM LEARNING ROUGHLY $90,000 AND TO TELL THEM THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RETRAINED AND POTENTIALLY EARN AT LEAST 44,000 IS INSULTING AND THAT'S NOT A JUST TRANSITION.
A JUST TRANSITION ENSURES THAT WORKERS AND DRIVERS AND THOSE OPERATORS ARE AT THE CONVERSATION AND GIVING INPUT AND THEY DID AND THEIR INPUT IS A RECOMMENDATION OF FIVE YEARS. I BELIEVE TAKING ANYTHING LESS THAN FIVE YEARS WILL BE PUTTING OUR SMALL BUSINESSES IN A VERY BAD POSITION WITH DEBT AND ASSET FORFEITURE.
WITH THAT WE KNOW THAT THESE HORSES ARE VERY VALUABLE AND ARE CONSIDERED ASSETS, AND MY CONCERN IS IF THEY DO FALL INTO DEBT, THOSE HORSES CAN BE SEEN AS COLLATERAL AND AUCTIONED OFF. WE DON'T KNOW THE SITUATION WHICH THOSE HORSES WILL BE PLACED IN. WHEN I LOOK AT THE CURRENT REGULATIONS THAT EXIST, THEY HAD WATER BREAKS BEFORE SAN ANTONIO CONSTRUCTION WORKERS HAD WATER BREAKS.
LOOKING AT HOW OFTEN THEY GO TO THE VETERINARIAN, THAT'S MORE THAN THE AVERAGE SAN ANTONIAN WHO LACKS ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, MORE THAN MANY RESIDENTS GO TO THE DOCTOR. ULTIMATELY I BELIEVE ANYTHING LESS THAN FIVE YEARS IS A DISSERVICE AND WILL CREATE FURTHER DISTRUST WITH SAN ANTONIO AND TEXAN RESIDENTS BECAUSE ULTIMATELY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS KILLING JOBS IN AN INDUSTRY WHERE WE KNOW THERE'S ALREADY ECONOMIC SECURITY. A TEAM OF RESEARCHERS FOUND SAN ANTONIO LOST 40% OF SMALL BUSINESSES DURING THE PANDEMIC AND WE KNOW SMALL BUSINESSES EMPLOY NEARBYLY HALF THE NORTHWESTERN WORKFORCE AND 43% OF THE GDP. WE'RE SEEING LAYOFFS THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF TEXAS, THE UNITED STATES AND A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF THOSE WE'RE SEEING IN SAN ANTONIO RANGE FROM THE ROUNDS OF LAYOFFS AT USAA, 138 FROM AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON. AND THESE ARE WORKERS, THESE ARE TEXT, THESE ARE SAN ANTONIANS AND WE'RE TELLING THEM GO GET RETRAINED AND FIND A LOWER PAYING JOB.
DURING THE TIME WHEN WE KNOW THERE'S SO MUCH ECONOMIC INSECURITY, IT'S DISAPPOINTING AND I'M NOT AS EAGER AS SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES TO KILL JOBS AND SMALL BUSINESS, BUT I THINK TAKING ANYTHING LESS WOULD BE A DISSERVICE TO TEXAN
[01:15:04]
WORKERS AND FOLKS WHO HAVE HELPED PROVIDE A SERVICE. I WILL CHALLENGE, I ACTUALLY GOT IN TROUBLE BY A D5 RESIDENT BY NOT BEING ON THE TRANSPORTATION AND I HAD TO LET HER KNOW I DIDN'T SERVE ON THAT COMMITTEE SO I DIDN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE INPUT. SHE SHARED SHE WOULD BE OPPOSED -- SHE WOULDN'T LIKE FOR ME TO SUBPOENA FORT PAYING THIS -- -- TO SUPPORT PHASE ING THIS OUT.IF WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMPONENT AND LITHIUM BATTERIES, THOSE CAN COME COMBUST. SO I THINK THERE'S JUST A WHOLE WEALTH OF CONVERSATIONS AND DIFFERENT POINTS TO BE MADE. ULTIMATELY I AM NOT SUPPORTIVE OF KILLING JOBS, KILLING SMALL BUSINESSES AND THAT'S WHAT THIS
CONVERSATION IS ABOUT TODAY. THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK
YOU, COUNCILMEMBER CASTILLO. COUNCILMEMBER KAUR. >> KAUR: THANK YOU, MAYOR.
I UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN IN CONVERSATION FOR A FEW YEARS AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR THE NEW CCR PROCESS WE HAVE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE CHALLENGE WHEN WE HAVE TOUGH DECISIONS TO MAKE SO I'M DISCUSS IT AND HAVE THOUGHTFUL RESEARCH THAT'S BEEN DONE BY CITY STAFF. THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THE CITY STAFF THAT HAVE PUT THIS TOGETHER. I ALWAYS LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHOUT OUT C AND E, BUT WE HAD THE HIGHEST RESPONSE SO THAT MAKES ME THINK MAYBE WE NEED TO DO MORE SURVEYS ABOUT CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES. I'M GLAD WE GOT SO MUCH COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT. EVEN IF YOU DON'T LIVE DOWNTOWN, I HAVE FOLKS THAT COME UP AND HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THIS ISSUE. SO WHILE I COMPLETELY EMPATHIZE WITH MY COLLEAGUES, THE CORE PART OF THE TRANSITION PLAN IS SMALL BUSINESSES, FOLKS WORKING IN A GREATLY PAID PROFESSION. THERE'S ALSO A LARGER COMMUNITY THAT WE HAVE TO SERVE. THAT INCLUDES MULTIPLE OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT AS WELL. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION -- A FEW QUESTIONS. ON THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGE CONVERSATION, WE SAW AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE THIS WEEKEND THAT WAS FAST AND COOL, BUT I HEARD THEY ARE NOT STREET LEGAL. IS THAT A POLICY WE WOULD NEED TO CREATE OR WHAT IS
THE BACKGROUND ON THAT? >> YES, COUNCILMEMBER. THEY CAN BECOME STREET LEGAL SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE A VIN IN ORDER TO GET A LICENSE PLATE FROM TXDOT.
ONCE THEY DO THAT MUCH LIKE A GOLF CART, WE REFER TO THEM AS NEIGHBORHOOD ELECTRIC VEHICLES, THEY CAN BE REGISTERED AND AN OWNER CAN OBTAIN INSURANCE ON THAT ELECTRIC VEHICLE, IF YOU WILL. THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGE.
>> VILLAGÓMEZ: WE ALSO HAVE TO MAKE A CHANGE TO OUR CITY CORRESPONDENCE TO ALLOW THEM -- ORDINANCE TO ALLOW THEM TO OPERATE ON OUR STREET AS VEHICLE FOR HIRE.
>> KAUR: BUT NOTHING WE COULD ADDRESS AS COUNCIL. >> VILLAGÓMEZ: THAT'S
CORRECT. >> KAUR: COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ AND I WERE DISCUSSING WE UNDERSTAND THERE'S A COST TO THIS AND THE ONLY OPPORTUNITY WOULD BE THE ZERO PERCENT LOAN. I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF WE COULD SUPPORT FUNDING FROM THE INNERCITY TOURISM. GIVEN THAT THERE IS A TRANSITION PLAN THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL WAY TO GET SOME OF THESE OPERATORS ON THEIR FEET WITH SOME OF THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES OPTIONS AT LEAST THE ONES THAT WERE INTERESTED. ON THE ZERO PERCENT LOAN, IF SOMEONE HAS EXISTING DEBT THEY MIGHT BE DEFAULTING ON, WOULD THEY BE ELIGIBLE FOR
THAT PROGRAM? >> THE OWNERS WOULD NEED TO MEET THE UNDERWRITING CRITERIA AS SET FORTH BY LIFT FUND. IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THEY
WOULD NOT BE ELIGIBLE. >> KAUR: I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHAT OTHER OPPORTUNITIES THERE WOULD BE THERE TO HELP. ALONG THE SAME LINES WITH THAT ANALYSIS, CAN WE GO TO THE ANALYSIS SLIDE FOR THE DEBT.
I SAW A LOT OF AVERAGES, BUT IT'S JUST FIVE COMPANIES YOU WERE ANALYZING.
DO WE HAVE A CHART THAT SHOWS THE TOTAL AMOUNT -- I ASK FOR THIS AND IF NOT IF WE COULD IT SAID UP TO $17,000 IS THE MONTHLY PAYMENT FOR ONE OF THE COMPANIES, BUT I'M WONDERING THE THERE'S A DIFFERENT SIZE AND SCALE FOR
ALL SIZE OR IF THAT'S THE AVERAGE. >> NO, THE COMPANIES WERE RATHER FORTHCOMING WITH SHARING A LOT OF THIS DATA, BUT WE DIDN'T COLLECT IT.
WE DID NOT ACTUALLY SECURE DOCUMENTATION. WE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM, THEY SHOWED US STUFF ON THEIR SCREENS, BUT WE DIDN'T COLLECT LIKE LOAN
DOCUMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. >> KAUR: I ASK FOR THAT
[01:20:03]
SPECIFICALLY. IF THERE'S A WAY, WHATEVER OUR NEXT STEP IS TO GET THAT LOAN DOCUMENTATION SO I CAN GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE I THINK THE HIGHEST AMOUNT OF DEBT SOMEONE HAD WAS 700,000, WHICH FOR A SMALL BUSINESS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF DEBT. I WAS CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THAT CAPITAL STACK LOOKED LIKE. IF WE COULD GET MORE INFORMATION THERE, THATWOULD BE WONDERFUL. >> WE CAN REQUEST IT. >> KAUR: AWESOME.
THANK YOU. ONE OTHER THING -- A COUPLE OTHER POINTS I WANTED TO MAKE WAS ON THE TRANSITION PLANS, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN BRING UP THAT SLIDE.
I DON'T HAVE THE SLIDE NUMBERS REFERENCED. THERE WAS AN OPTION FOR 25% DECREASE FOR OPERATIONAL HOURS BY -- DEPENDING WHICH YEAR IT WAS.
I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THE THREE-YEAR TRANSITION PLAN IT WAS A DECREASE OF 25% OF OPERATIONAL HOURS IN 2026 AND THEN IN 2027. CAN WE ENSURE THAT THE -- TWO SLIDES. YEAH. CAN WE ENSURE THOSE OPERATING HOURS ARE IN THE SUMMER SO THAT WE'RE NOT JUST SEEING 25% ACROSS THE BOARD BUT SPECIFYING FOR, YOU KNOW, TIMES WHERE IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE
DIFFICULT TO OPERATE? >> THAT WOULD FALL UNDER COUNCIL'S PURVIEW TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE TO DO THAT. COUNCIL WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE THOSE
HOURS. >> KAUR: THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO LIST OUT WHAT
THE LANGUAGE OF THE ORDINANCE WOULD BE FOR -- >> CORRECT.
>> KAUR: GREAT. COULD WE ALSO ADD THERE COULD BE NO NEW PURCHASES.
HORSES RETIRE AND A FEW IN THE NEXT. COULD WE PUT IN NO NEW HORSES COULD BE PURCHASED BY THE COMPANIES FOR THIS WORK? EVEN THOUGH WE'RE HAVING A
THREE-YEAR TRANSITION PLAN? >> COUNCILWOMAN, I THINK MARIA IS POINTING TO ME TO SPEAK TO PROHIBITIONS. WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A WAY TO ENFORCE OR GOVERN WHAT A BUSINESS CHOOSES TO DO IN TERMS OF ASSETS. OBVIOUSLY IF, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY IS EXPLICIT WHEN WHAT THE PHASE IS, IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO THEM HOW TO MANAGE THAT, BUT THERE'S NO WAY FOR US TO PROHIBIT PURCHASES BY COMPANIES.
>> VILLAGÓMEZ: COUNCILWOMAN, THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
PERHAPS MAYBE WHAT YOU WERE ALLUDING, OUR ANIMAL CARE SERVICES DEPARTMENT PERMITS THE HORSES, THAT WE CAN EXPLORE TO SEE THAT'S WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CITY COUNCIL WHICH IT MY BE SO WE DON'T PERMIT ANY ADDITIONAL SOURCES.
>> KAUR: I WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT THAT, THAT WE WOULD NOT PERMIT ANY NEW HORSESMENT THANK YOU BOTH FOR THAT RESPONSE. THE LAST QUESTION I IN JUST ON THE FOCUS GROUP SURVEY, IT SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN INTEREST IN COLLABORATING WITH THE HORSE EQUINE GROUPS. COULD ANYBODY EXPLAIN WHY
THAT WAS? >> YES, MA'AM. IN TALKING TO THE OWNERS, SEVERAL OF THE HORSES THAT THEY OWN NOW ARE ACTUALLY FROM THOSE TYPES OF GROUPS, FROM -- AND A LOT OF IT THEY JUST DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE WAY THE ANIMALS ARE TREATED WHEN THEY GO TO THOSE SANCTUARIES OR RESCUE KIND OF GROUPS.
>> KAUR: I USED TO BE ON THE BOARD FOR A HORSE EQUINE THERAPY ORGANIZATION THAT WORKS WITH SPECIAL NEEDS STUDENTS BECAUSE THE HORSES ARE DYNAMIC ANIMALS.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PARTNERSHIP. ALSO ANOTHER IDEA, IF THERE'S IS LAND INVOLVED IN IS THAT DEBT, MAYBE WE COULD LOOK AT PURCHASING IT FOR LAND BANKING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR ADDITIONAL WORK. ALL IN ALL MY STANCE ON THIS IS WE REALLY NEED TO WORK ON GRACEFULLY TRANSITIONING OUT THE FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN WORKING HARD FOR OUR COMMUNITY BUT AT THIS TIME BELIEVE IT IS A TIME OF TRANSITION. COUNCILMEMBER CABELLO HAVRDA SAID WE HAVE TO BUILD A SAN ANTONIO FOR OUR FUTURE AND I THINK THAT LOOKS LIKE LOOKING AT UNIQUE, INNOVATIVE WAYS TO PROVIDE ENTERTAINMENT AND TOURISM WHILE MAKING SURE WE'RE KEEPING OUR ANIMALS AT THE LEVEL THAT THEY NEED TO BE AND ENSURING PUBLIC SAFETY AS WELL. WITH THAT I WOULD SUPPORT A TRANSITION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. I DO THINK THREE YEARS IS A GOOD COMPROMISE, BUT THAT'S
WHERE I STAND ON THIS ISSUE. THANKS, MAYOR. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER KAUR. ANY FURTHER CONFUSION BEFORE I MAKE SOME COMMENTS?
COUNCILMEMBER PELÁEZ. >> PELÁEZ: THANK YOU. SO FIRST OF ALL, I WAS A COLLEGE STUDENT I THINK -- COUNCILMEMBER CABELLO HAVRDA, YOU ARE YOUNGER SO I THINK YOU WERE TOO, BUT THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THIS CITY COUNCIL DECIDED TO PROHIBIT SMOKING IN RESTAURANTS. AND I REMEMBER SOME OF OUR
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FRIENDS WHO STOOD AT THAT PODIUM TELLING US 245 IF WE PROHIBITED SMOKING IN RESTAURANTS, THE INDUSTRY WOULD HAVE TO DECLARE BANKRUPTCY, ALL THEIR EMPLOYEES WOULD BE PUSHED INTO THE STREETS TO LIVE LIVES OF HOMELESSNESS AND WE WOULD BE SENDING A TERRIBLE MESSAGE TO TEXANS AND IT WAS A LITMUS TEST WE WERE FAILING BECAUSE CLEARLY IT SPOKE TO CITY COUNCIL'S HATE OF SMALL BUSINESSES.IT WAS A DUMB ARGUMENT THEN AND IT'S A DUMB ARGUMENT NOW TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE DO HERE IS GOING TO LEAD TO ALL THOSE PARADE OF HORRIBLES IF WE MOVED THIS HORSE INDUSTRY OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO. I'M SORRY, OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. IT'S NOT A BLACK OR WHITE BINARY ISSUE.
NOBODY HAS SPOKEN ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO MOVE THESE HORSES TO OTHER PARTS OF DOWNTOWN THAT HAVE MORE SHADE. NOBODY HAS TOLD ME WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A VIABLE OPTION TO MOVE THEM TO BRACKENRIDGE PARK AND THAT WE MAKE THAT A MORE VIBRANT TOURISM EXPERIENCE FOR PEOPLE. BY THE WAY, THE SAME ARGUMENTS WERE MADE BY THE STRIP BARS WHEN CHIP HAAS SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY NEEDED TO BE SUBJECT TO SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES.
THAT ARGUMENT WAS THESE ARE -- IT'S THE ARGUMENT COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE MADE, THESE ARE PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESSES, THEY ARE NOT BREAKING THE LAW, PROVIDING A POPULAR SERVICE AND PAYING TAXES. STRIP BARS TOLD EVERYBODY THAT. BY THE WAY, IT'S THE SAME THING THE COCK FIGHTING INDUSTRY TELLS PEOPLE WHENEVER STATES OR CITIES TRY TO OUTLAW COCK FIGHTING.
IT'S THE SAME THING CIRCUSES STARTED ARGUING. WE HEARD COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE ALSO TALK ABOUT THIS IS THE AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD ANY OF MY COUNCILMEMBERS NIT-PICK THE MARGIN OF ERROR TO DEFEAT THE CONCLUSIONS THAT A SRVEY REACHES OR TO TRY TO DISTRACT FROM THE UNDERLYING MERITS OF A POLICY POSITION. THAT'S ACTUALLY A REALLY DISHONEST AND DISINGENUOUS POLICY CALLED THE MCNAMARA WHERE YOU DECIDE TO ATTACK THE STATISTICAL KNIT-PICKING ISSUE. ANOTHER ONE WAS HEY, OTHER NINE CITIES CONTINUE TO ALLOW HORSE CARRIAGES. THAT'S CALLED THE BAND WAGON FALLACY. JUST BECAUSE ANOTHER GROUP DOES IT, IT MUGS BE RIGHT.
THOSE CITIES ARE WRONG FOR CONTINUING TO STICK TO AN IDIOTIC POLICY.
IN THE EVENT SOMEBODY POSTS A MILLION LINKED VIDEO OF A HORSE DYING DOWNTOWN.
WOULD WE SHUT DOWN THE RIVER BARGE INDUSTRY IF ONE OF THEM WERE TO SINK.
THAT'S ANOTHER DISHONEST FALLACY. THAT'S CALLED A FALSE EQUIVALENCE. NO, IF A BARGE WERE TO SINK IN WAIST-DEEP WATER, WE WOULD TREAT IT LIKE A BARGE SUNK IN WAIST-DEEP WATER. I HEARD ANOTHER FALLACY, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T VISIT WITH AN ANGRY VETERINARIAN, I DON'T NEED A VETERINARIAN TO TELL ME THE DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES OF HAVING THE U TUBE VIDEO UP ON THE -- YOUTUBE. THOSE THE FOLKS DON'T WANT THE HORSES CLOMPING AROUND THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T NEED A VETERINARIAN TO TELL ME WHAT I'VE ALREADY HEARD FROM OTHER VETERINARIANS, PARTICULARLY THE VETERINARIAN MEDICAL ALLIANCE WHICH IS A COALITION OF THOUSANDS OF VETS DEDICATED TO HUMANE TREATMENT OF ANIMALS DOWNTOWN AND THEY HAVE SERIOUS OBJECTIONS ABOUT THE HANDLING OF HORSES, THE CAUSE OF HEAT EXHAUSTION AND, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC AROUND THE HORSES, STABLING ISSUES, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.
SO SORRY, I DIDN'T TALK TO THE ONE ANGRY GUY WHO IS PAID FOR FAVOR OF ONE PARTICULARITY. I LIKE TO -- -- PARTICULAR INDUSTRY.
KATIE, THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT LETTER WITH ME. I ENCOURAGE YOU TO SHARE IT WITH THE REST OF CITY COUNCIL. YOU GUYS KNOW MY POSITION.
I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE WE ARE ALL HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
I JUST WANT TO SEE IT HAPPEN SOONER. THAT'S IT.
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER PELÁEZ. COUNCILMEMBER
MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ. >> MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ: THANK YOU, MAYOR.
I JUST WANTED TO BRIEFLY ECHO, I THINK IT'S FUNNY THAT WE NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT THE ACCURACY OF SURVEYS WHEN IT TIME TO GIVE MORE MONEY FOR POLICE.
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I WANT TO ECHO SUPPORT FOR COUNCILMEMBER KAUR'S INTEREST IN -- PREVENT THE ADDITIONAL PURCHASE OF HORSES. I WOULD BE WILLING TO USE -- TO SUPPORT USE OF TOURIST DOLLARS TO PRESIDENT BUSH E-CARRIAGEES.I THINK IT'S A OPPORTUNITY TO HELP PROVIDE TANGIBLE SUPPORT TO KICK OFF AN EXCITING NEW INDUSTRY. THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE TO SAY I WOULD LIED ON ONE OF THE CHARGES ABOUT THERE WASN'T A HORSE. AND YOU ARE AS A BASE MISSING OUT ON THOSE FOLK. IT WAS ALSO DISAPPOINTING TO SEE THERE WAS AN INTEREST IN THE HORSE RESCUES OR ANYTHING OF THAT. I THINK IT'S DISINGENUOUS& AND I DID SPEAK WITH AN OWNER WHO AS HE RETIRES HIS HORSES HE GIVES AN OPTION TO DRIVERS WHO OWN LAND AND THAT'S ONE WAY ONE OF THE THREE OWNERS BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT'S NOT JUST FIVE BUSINESSES, IT'S THREE OWNERS, TWO OF WHICH OWN TWO BUSINESSES, AND SO AGAIN IT WAS A BIT DISAPPOINT TO GO SEE NO INTEREST TO WORK WITH THE HORSE RESCUES. WE'VE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE BRADY HUNTER FOUNDATION, A NATIONAL ANIMAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION AND THEY CAN'T BE INVOLVED IN POLICY, BUT THEY'VE EXPRESSED JUST LIKE THEY ARE IN CITIES LIKE PHILADELPHIA AND NEW YORK, THEY COULD BE THERE FOR BUSINESSES AND HAVE HELPED OTHERS CONNECT WITH REPUTABLE HORSE RESCUES AND PROVIDING TRANSPORTATION FROM HERE TO THERE.
AND AGAIN, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN APPROACHED BECAUSE THIS IS A LOOPHOLE AND I'VE SPOKEN WITH YOU PRIVATELY, BUT I THINK IT'S BENEFICIAL FOR COUNCIL DISCUSSION, WE DO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF BUSINESSES TO FIVE. AT THE TIME WE HAVE ONE BUSINESS -- EACH OF THOSE BUSINESSES IS ABLE TO OPERATE FIVE HORSE CARRIAGES. FOR A TOTAL OF 25. THERE ARE THREE OWNERS, ONE WHO OPERATES FIVE HORSES -- WHO OPERATES FIVE CARRIAGEES, ONE WHO OPERATES TEN, AND ANOTHER WHO OPERATES TEN. SO THERE'S A LOOPHOLE THAT IS ALLOWED TWO BUSINESS OWNERS THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLOIT THIS LOOPHOLE TO CREATE TWO BUSINESSES SO THEY CAN OPERATE MORE CARRIAGES WHILE ONE DOES NOT HAVE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES. THERE WOULD BE CHALLENGING FOR CLOSING THAT LOOPHOLE,
BUT IT IS A CONCERN OF MINE. THANK YOU. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK
YOU, COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE-RODRIGUEZ. >> GARCIA:.
-- COUNCILMEMBER ROCHA GARCIA. >> GARCIA: THANK YOU, MAYOR. I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH THE THREE-YEAR, I FEEL LIKE IT'S THE MEDIAN FROM WHAT I'M HEARING. I'M ALSO IN AGREEMENT WITH THE CESSATION OF NEW HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE PERMITS THAT COUNCILMEMBER KAUR MENTIONED. AND AS WELL AS IN FAVOR OF USING THE TIRZ OR SEEING HOW WE COULD DO BUSINESS OWNER STRATEGIES, WE HAVE THE EXPLORATION OF OPTIONS TO MITIGATE REVENUE LOSSES AND I'M WONDERING EXACTLY WHAT ARE WE INTENDING TO DO THERE?
>> THESE AREN'T NECESSARILY ITEMS THAT WE'RE REQUIRING BUSINESS OWNERS TO DO, BUT I THINK SOME OF THEM WERE MENTIONED UP HERE. WE STARTED JUST KIND OF FRYING TO BRAINSTORM OTHER OPPORTUNITIES BASED ON ASSETS THAT THEY HAVE.
JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ELSE COULD THEY DO WITH THE ASSETS AVAILABLE.
I THINK AS THEY HAVE TIME AND KNOW THIS IS THE WAY THAT THIS TRANSITION IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITHIN THIS TIME FRAME, IT MIGHT MAKE THAT REALITY A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC TO ENCOURAGE MORE OF THAT EXPLORATION, LET'S SAY.
>> GARCIA: WOULD WE BE ABLE TO -- MAYBE ONE ON ONE COACHING OR SOME SORT OF A BUSINESS TRAINING PROGRAM SO THAT THEY COULD SEE WHAT OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND LITERALLY HAND-HOLD THEM AND MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO AS MUCH I GUESS FINANCIAL
PLANNING AS POSSIBLE? >> WE ABSOLUTELY HAVE THOSE KINDS OF RESOURCES IN OUR COMMUNITY. IF LAUNCH SA IS NOT THE RIGHT FIT, WE COULD CONNECT THEM WITH OTHER RESOURCES FOR ESTABLISHED COMPANIES THAT ARE LOOKING TO
TRANSITION OR EVOLVE. >> GARCIA: THOSE ARE MY ONLY QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER ROCHA
GARCIA. COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE. >> COURAGE: THANK YOU, MAYOR. I SUPPOSE A FEW THINGS I SAID MAY HAVE HIT HOME WITH A FEW PEOPLE, BUT THERE'S -- I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS DENIED WE WOULD BE THE CAUSE
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OF SHUTTING DOWN THOSE BUSINESSES. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE SURVEY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RESULTS OF THE SURVEY, YOU CAN EASILY SEE THAT MORE THAN 20% OF THE VOTES WERE DUPLICATE VOTES. SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT A RELIABLE SURVEY, LET'S ELIMINATE THE DUPLICATION OF ANSWERS AND I THINK THAT THAT CAUSES ME TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CONCERN ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THE SURVEY. AND I HAVE TO SAY I'VE HAD PEOPLE COME UP TO ME AND SAY I LOVE HAVING THE CARRIAGES DOWNTOWN.SO WE HEAR FROM ALL SIDES. BUT LET'S LOOK AT THE FACT OF WHAT WE'RE DOING AND THE FACT IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF BUSINESS AND TAKING AWAY THEIR LIVELIHOODS FOR NO GOOD REASON OTHER THAN SOMEBODY DOESN'T LIKE TO BE STUCK IN TRAFFIC FOR A FEW MINUTES ONCE A WEEK OR TWICE A WEEK.
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER COURAGE. COUNCILMEMBER CASTILLO.
>> CASTILLO: THANK YOU, MAYOR. I WANTED TO BE SURE THAT I STRESSED THAT COMPARING A NON-SMOKING ORDINANCE OR A STRIP CLUB THAT'S REGULATION AND HERE WE HAVE THE PROPOSING OF SUNSETTING AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY.
IT'S A BUSINESS DISHONEST TO COMPARE REGULATION WITH ZEROING OUT A BUSINESS.
IT IS A BIT DISHONEST. I WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE TIRZ SUPPORTING FUNDING TO CARRY OUT THE E-CARRIAGES FOR THOSE DRIVERS INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING, BUT ULTIMATELY I -- IT WOULD BE GREAT IF MY COLLEAGUES WERE THIS PASSIONATE ABOUT KEEPING FOLKS HOUSED AND NOT DISLOCATING THEM FOR BASEBALL AND SO MANY OTHER PIECES, BUT HORSES IS A PASSION, BUT NOT KEEPING FOLKS HOUSED OR CONNECTING FOLKS TO SERVICES. THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU, MAYOR.
>> MAYOR NIRENBERG: THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER CASTILLO. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION BEFORE I MAKE MY COMMENTS? OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
JUST WANT TO MAKE CLEAR. FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE DEALING WITH REGULATIONS AND RULES, CHAPTER 33 IS SOMETHING THAT WE OPENED UP ON A REGULAR BASIS PROBABLY EVERY FIVE YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. AND SO SINCE I'VE BEEN SITTING AS MAYOR, WHEN THAT GOT OPENED UP AND ACTUALLY A COUPLE OTHER TIMES I'VE SAID IT'S TIME FOR US TO LOOK AT HORSE CARRIAGES AND THE USE OF THEM IN DOWNTOWN AREAS. THREE TIMES I CAN REMEMBER, AND IT WAS ON THE THIRD TIME THAT MY COLLEAGUES, I GUESS AGREED AND FILED A CCR SO I'M GRATEFUL FOR THAT INITIATION BECAUSE WE ARE FINALLY HAVING A CONVERSATION I THINK IS A LITTLE BIT OVERDUE. APPARENTLY I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE BECAUSE I DON'T PUT A WHOLE LOT OF SCIENTIFIC FAITH IN THE SURVEYS.
IT'S A PICTURE OF CONTEXT. IT'S AN INPUT. BUT IT ALSO REAFFIRMS THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY AND OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE HAD THIS CONVERSATION FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS. SO THAT'S NUMBER ONE.
I WANT TO APPLAUD THE STAFF BECAUSE AS FAR AS AN EVALUATION OF A POTENTIAL REGULATION, WE KNOW THAT WHEN WE REGULATE THINGS, INDUSTRIES OR OTHERWISE, THERE IS IMPACT, THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES. AND LET'S BE REAL ABOUT THAT. THERE COULD BE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES TO LEG RATING CERTAIN INDUSTRIES -- REGULATING CERTAIN INDUSTRIES AND WE HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR WHAT THOSE WOULD BE. I WANT TO APPLAUD THE STAFF AND COMMUNITY FOR HAVING AN OPEN, HONEST DIALOGUE ABOUT THOUSAND WE CAN DEAL WITH THOSE IMPACTS. IT'S NOT LOST ON US THESE ARE SMALL BUSINESSES IN OUR COMMUNITY, RESIDENTS IN OUR COMMUNITY, THEY DESERVE TO BE TREATED FAIRLY AND JUSTLY WHICH IS WHY I THINK THEY TITLED THE TRANSITION PLAN JUST THAT.
I WANT TO RESPOND TO A COUPLE OF THINGS. AGAIN, THE READY TO WORK PROGRAM HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP A COUPLE TIMES. THE AVERAGE PARTICIPANT IN THE READY TO WORK PROGRAM IS NOT MAKING $90,000 A YEAR WHEN THEY WALK IN.
THEY ARE MAKING $14,000 A YEAR. SO $44,000 A YEAR PLUS BENEFITS IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT FOR READY TO WORK PARTICIPANTS.
I WANT TO MAKE THAT VERY CLEAR. IF SOMEONE IS UNDER EMPLOYED OR UNEMPLOYED, THE READY TO WORK PROGRAM IS THEIR LIFE LINE FOR ECONOMIC MOBILITY.
THIS IS A DIFFERENT USE OF IT IF IN FACT THIS IS PART OF THE TRANSITION.
AND SO, AGAIN, I WANT TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THIS IS A JOB TRAINING PROGRAM FOR RESKILLING FOLKS WHO DO NOT HAVE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.
THAT BEING SAID, WHEN I BROUGHT THIS UP, IT WAS REALLY ABOUT THE FACT THAT
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WE ARE OPERATING MAJOR DOWNTOWN STREETS. AND THE TRAFFIC AND SAFETY ISSUES ARE ONLY INCREASING IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND IT IS TIME FOR US TO EVALUATE THAT SERIOUSLY. SO I AGREED WITH MY COLLEAGUES ON THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE THAT WE NEED TO DO SEND IT TO TRANSPORTATION. I HEARD THE COMMENTS FROM THE VETERINARIAN, I HEARD THE COMMENTS FROM THE OWNERS AND THE OPERATORS OF THE HORSE CARRIAGES. I DON'T -- I DON'T HAVE ANY MANNER TO DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THE CARE YOU PROVIDE TO YOUR HORSES. I'M NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH THAT, I BELIEVE YOU. AND SO THAT DOESN'T SOLVE THE ISSUE OF TRANSPORTATION TO ME. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS LONGER THAN TWO YEARS IN THIS COMMUNITY. IT'S JUST THE LAST TWO YEARS WE'VE BROUGHT IT UP FOR AN ACTUAL POLICY CONSIDERATION. WHERE I STAND ON THIS ISSUE, JUST TO WRAP IT UP, I BELIEVE IT'S TIME, I BELIEVE IT'S TIME ACTUALLY OVERDUE. I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO TANKS EGGS THOUGHTFULLY, COMPASSIONATELY AS SOON AS WE CAN.AND I ALSO -- BECAUSE THIS FOR ME WAS A TRANSPORTATION ISSUE, A MOBILITY ISSUE, I'M NOT SOLD ON THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES. I'M SORRY.
THIS DOES NOT, TO ME, SOLVE THE ISSUE WE WERE TRYING TO ADDRESS WITH THE CARRIAGES.
IN MY PERSPECTIVE AND MY HOPE IS THAT WE CAN DEAL WITH ONE ISSUE AT A TIME, ADDRESS THE TRANSITION. IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT ELECTRIC CARRIAGES AS A MEANS FOR OPERATING ENTERTAINMENT DOWNTOWN, I THINK WE THEODOSIA TO LOOK AT THAT SEPARATELY -- NEED TO LOOK AT THAT SEPARATELY. I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT AT ANY RATE I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S WORK. THE HONEST, CANDID DIALOGUE.
WHEN IT COMES TO A VOTE, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD AS SOON AS POSSIBLE IN A MANNER THAT IS FAIR TO OUR OPERATORS WHO ARE HERE. SO WITH THAT, IT'S JUST A DISCUSSION TODAY. WE'LL HAVE MORE VERY SOON, I SUPPOSE.
WE'LL CONSULT WITH YOU, ERIK, WHEN THIS WILL COME BACK.
DO YOU WANT TO WRAP UP WITH ANYTHING? >> WALSH: THANKS, MAYOR.
A GOOD CONVERSATION AND I THINK WE'RE HEARING THE FEEDBACK OF AN ITEM WE'LL BRING BACK TO COUNCIL WITH AN ORDINANCE IN PLACE THAT THE COUNCIL CAN APPROVE, THAT WILL TRANSITION THAT INDUSTRY OUT. AND I'LL TALK TO THE STAFF, BUT I HEARD ONE, TWO, THREE YEARS MAYBE, MAYBE THREE YEARS, BUT CERTAINLY SOONER ON THE FRONTER END. THERE'S A COUPLE OTHER ASPECTS OF IT REGARDING DURING THAT TRANSITION TIME WITH THE NUMBER OF PERMITS. WE'LL GATHER UP AS STAFF.
I'M ALSO HEARING LOUD AND CLEAR THE COUNCIL WANTS TO DEAL WITH THIS SOON, SO WE WILL INITIALLY TARGET TO BRING THIS BACK FOR COUNCIL ACTION THE FIRST COUNCIL
MEETING IN DECEMBER. >> MAYOR NIRENBERG: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYBODY. THE TIME IS 2:54 P.M. ON OCTOBER -- EXCUSE ME, YES, OCTOBER 31, 2024. HAPPY HALLOWEEN.
WE ARE ADJOURNED.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.