* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [9:00 AM – Call to Order] [00:00:09] I WILL NOW CALL, I WILL NOW CALL TO ORDER THE COMPLIANCE AND TECHNICAL ADVISORY BOARD AT 9 0 2. COULD WE PLEASE HAVE ROLL CALL DAVIS PRESENT FLORES GARCIA ARD. HERE. ZER FULLERTON PRESENT P*****K. HERE. VASQUEZ PRESENT AND VEDA PRESENT. WE HAVE A QUORUM AT THIS TIME. TRANSLATION SERVICES, PLEASE. GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. YES. THANK YOU. THANKS. THANK YOU EVERYONE. THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR BEING HERE. THE COMPLIANCE AND TECHNICAL ADVISORY BOARD IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I AM JUANITA CHAIRWOMAN, AND THE VICE CHAIR IS JASON VAZQUEZ. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE BOARD TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER IN ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERN CERTAIN APPLICANT APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT AND LANDMARKS. IN CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE BOARD SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANY PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO AN ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY. NO, IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF OR REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON THE CASE. YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS, CALL IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOR THE, FOR THE OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON. SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO REP TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE BOARD DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MAY BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE BOARD WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE, THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORICAL PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. MORNING EVERYONE. UM, JUST A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT. UM, TOMORROW IS OBVIOUSLY THANKSGIVING AND SO CITY OFFICES WILL BE CLOSED ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY OF NEXT WEEK. THAT INCLUDES OHP. UM, SO JUST A REMINDER, IF YOU HAVE ANY WEEKEND PROJECTS PLANNED FOR NEXT WEEK, UM, BE SURE TO GET THOSE COA REQUESTS IN IN ADVANCE OF THAT HOLIDAY BREAK. UM, AT THIS TIME, WE CAN DO MEETING MINUTES FROM LAST MONTH, WHICH WILL BE OCTOBER 18TH. MADAM CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER 18TH, 2024 CTA MEETING. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. COULD WE TAKE ROLL CALL DAVIS? AYE, GARCIA? AYE. BRI REGARD? AYE. FULLERTON AYE. P*****K. AYE. VASQUEZ AYE. AND SEPULVEDA AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. UM, WE HAVE NO ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, SO WE'LL GET RIGHT INTO INDIVIDUAL [INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION] ITEMS BEGINNING WITH ITEM NUMBER ONE. ITEM NUMBER ONE ON THE COMPLIANCE AND TECHNICAL ADVISORY BOARD. AGENDA CASE NUMBER 2 0 2 4 DASH 3 6 4 2 18 DELAWARE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL [00:05:01] A FOUR FOOT TALL CATTLE PANEL STYLE FRONT YARD FENCE WITH THE PEDESTRIAN GATE AND 12 FOOT, UH, GATE SPANNING THE DRIVEWAY. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO INSTALL A FOUR FOOT TALL CATTLE PANEL STYLE FRONT YARD FENCE WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE FRONT YARD FENCE RETURNED TO THE FRONT FACADE AT THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT THE VEHICULAR GATE IS SET BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE PLANE OF THE HOUSE AND NOT SPAN ACROSS THE DRIVEWAY. STAFF FINDS THAT THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT UPDATED DRAWINGS REFLECTING THE STIPULATION PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND APPLICANT CHAD BRADSHAW IS PRESENT TODAY. CHAD BRADSHAW, TWO 18 DELAWARE. GOOD MORNING BOARD. UH, YES. WE WAS JUST WANTING TO PUT UP A, UH, 48 INCH FENCE. UH, THE STIPULATION HERE RECOMMENDS THAT WE PUT THE GATE, UH, BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE. HOWEVER, THERE IS A PROPERTY, UH, TWO HOUSES OVER ONE 30 DELAWARE, WHICH I UPLOADED INTO THE SYSTEM. UM, THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS, UH, WHERE THE GATE SITS AT THE FRONT OF THE YARD. UM, REASON IS THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SPACE TO PUT A SLIDING GATE, UH, IN THE DRIVEWAY RIGHT NEXT TO THE, UH, HOUSE FACADE. SO WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, UH, IF THERE MAY BE A VARIANCE, UM, TO CONTINUE MOVING FORWARD WITH PUTTING THE GATE WHERE WE WOULD LIKE. UH, THIS, UH, LADY PATRICIA, SHE HIRED US TO, UH, DO THE WORK AND SHE HAS A GARDEN THERE AND SHE WAS SAYING THAT THERE'S BEEN HOMELESS PEOPLE COMING UP ON HER, UM, ON HER UH, PORCH SOMETIMES. UM, SO THERE'S, THERE'S SOME, YOU KNOW, ALSO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IN THAT AREA THAT SHE WAS KIND OF CONCERNED ABOUT. SO THAT WAS ANOTHER REASON SHE WANTED TO PUT A GATE UP IN THE FRONT, UM, FRONT YARD. SO ANYWAY, UH, THAT'S , THAT'S THE REQUEST. SO NOT SURE HOW THIS WORKS. . YEAH, WE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS ON THIS. UM, SO WE CAN GET RIGHT INTO THE DISCUSSION. AND I WILL JUST CLARIFY STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UM, OVER THE PAST 10 YEARS OR SO, THIS HAS BEEN PRETTY INCONSISTENT IN TERMS OF OUTCOMES OF THE COMMISSION. SOMETIMES THE DRIVEWAY GATE IS APPROVED, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT. UM, AND SO WE UPDATED OUR POLICY A COUPLE YEARS AGO JUST TO CLARIFY STAFF'S POSITION ON THIS. UM, AND SO WE HAVE A POLICY GUIDE THAT'S BEEN APPROVED AND, UH, AND IS ILLUSTRATED, UM, THAT SHOWS KIND OF THE PREFERRED LOCATION OF FRONT YARD FENCES. UM, AND THIS IS GONNA BE BASED ON A LOT OF KIND OF CONDITIONS OF THE SITE, INCLUDING WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S ROOM TO SORT OF RETURN THAT FRONT YARD FENCE BACK INTO THE, THE FRONT OF THE HOME, UM, WHICH WE THINK THAT THERE IS HERE. UM, SO IT'S REALLY, UM, UP TO YOU ALL AT THIS POINT TO SORT OF, UM, LOOK AT THE, UH, CONDITIONS OF THE SITE AND SEE IF THE DRIVEWAY GATE IS WARRANTED. MADAM CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. GO AHEAD, COREY. IN, IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND, UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, IS THERE ROOM LIKE THE APPLICANT IS SAYING FOR IT TO GO BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE? YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK, UH, CAITLYN, IF YOU COULD PULL UP ON GOOGLE STREET VIEW JUST TWO 18 DELAWARE AND WE KIND OF TAKE A LOOK AROUND. UM, BUT WE DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ROOM TO FOLLOW THE POLICY IN THIS, UH, SITUATION. BUT I WILL STATE THE OBVIOUS, WHICH IS, EXCUSE ME, THERE IS A DRIVEWAY GATE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM HERE. UM, AND THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED A FEW OTHER SAMPLES. I JUST WANTED TO EXPLAIN THAT THAT HAS SORT OF BEEN INCONSISTENT OVER THE YEARS. DO YOU KNOW IF THE OTHER ONES WERE PERMITTED GIVEN COAS FOR THOSE? WE ARE NOT IN THE HABIT OF DOING AN ENTIRE KIND OF RECORD CHECK EVERY TIME WE GET ONE OF THESE. UM, MANY TIMES THEY ARE PERMITTED, UM, YEAH, BUT OFTEN NOT. SO THE WAY THE GATE WOULD BE POSITIONED, THE, THE CLIENT WANTS TO HAVE IT SLIDE INTO THE FENCE JUST SIMILAR TO, UH, THE 1 1 30, UH, DELAWARE. BUT ANYWAY, UM, IT'S JUST A TIGHT FIT. I MEAN, WE COULD PUT A SWINGING GATE, UM, BUT FOR THE CURB APPEAL THAT SHE WAS WANTING, UM, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD LEAVE IT OPEN BASED OFF OF ANY STIPULATIONS REQUIRED BY THE CITY, OF COURSE TO NOT SPAN THE DRIVEWAY, WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT. UM, BUT UH, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A CONVERSATION WE HAD AS WELL. AND KAITLYN, IF YOU CAN SWING US AROUND TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET, THERE'S ACTUALLY A GOOD EXAMPLE. THERE'S TWO HOUSES THAT HAVE EACH KIND. SO THIS ONE HAS THE DRIVEWAY GATE AND THEN ONE DOWN. YOU CAN SEE THE FENCE IS RETURNING, UM, WITHIN THE FRONT YARD SPACE. AND SO [00:10:01] THAT IS THE RECOMMENDED TREATMENT. AGAIN, IT'S NOT ALWAYS, UH, ATTAINABLE, JUST DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH SPACE THERE IS. OKAY. UH, THANK YOU. UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT SURE. THAT WHILE I CAN, UM, SYMPATHIZE WITH THE OWNER IN TERMS OF, UM, MAYBE WANTING TO HAVE SOME SENSE OF CONTROL OVER WHO COMES INTO THE YARD AND WHO DOESN'T. I THINK THAT FOR UM, HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS THAT UM, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE CAR NOT BE GIVEN TOO MUCH EMPHASIS, UH, FROM THE FRONT FACADE. AND I COULD, I CAN ALSO UNDERSTAND WHY, UH, YOU LIKE THIS IDEA OF CURB APPEAL, BUT TO ME, AND LOOKING AT THE EXAMPLES WHERE, UH, THE GATE DOES START AT THE TOP OF THE DRIVEWAY APRON, IT JUST STARTS TO CREATE THIS SENSE OF, UM, DEFINITELY STAY OFF MY LAWN. AND IT'S, IT'S MORE ABOUT SECURITY THAN IT IS ABOUT NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I THINK FOR A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, PART OF THE APPEAL IS THAT THERE'S THAT SENSE OF COMMUNITY. AND SO FOR ME, UM, I LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL WHERE WE'RE NOT HISTORIC, BUT WE HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND WE ALSO ARE ASKED TO PUT THAT GATE FARTHER BACK. AND SINCE IT THE I, YOU COULD STILL DO A SWING GATE BACK THERE EVEN IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE ROOM. SO FOR ME, UM, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT I'M IN FAVOR OF KEEPING WITH THAT HISTORIC, UH, REQUIREMENT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? GIVEN THAT THERE ARE OTHER GATES, COULD WE LOOK AND SEE WHEN ONE 30 DELAWARE WAS APPROVED AS A C OF A, BECAUSE IT'S, I UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENTS AS WELL. TOTALLY GET IT. I'M JUST SPEAKING , SHE WAS VERY IRATE WHEN SHE FOUND OUT THAT THE GATE HAD TO BE PUT BACK THAT FAR. SO, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT TOO, BUT YOU'RE GONNA GET CONTESTANTS WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW. IS THAT BECAUSE IT IS, EXCUSE ME? IS THERE A QUESTION TO IT? OH NO, THERE'S NO QUESTION. UM, I WILL RESPOND. ONE 18 DELAWARE WAS APPROVED IN 2019. UM, GIMME ONE CHANCE HERE TO LOOK AT THE, UM, DETAIL. MAYBE I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD THAT THERE BE SOME SORT OF METRIC AS A PERCENTAGE RATIO OF HOW MANY GATES COULD FURTHER BE CAUSED TO HAVE THIS KIND OF CASE PRESENTED. 'CAUSE I COULD SEE YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO HAVE AN OPEN COMMUNITY, UM, BUT I COULDN'T IMAGINE WAKING UP AND SEEING SOMEBODY IN MY YARD THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE EITHER, YOU KNOW? SO THAT WAS HER MAIN CONCERN. AND THEN THE AESTHETICS OF IT, UM, FOR HER, SHE'S PUT A LOT OF MONEY INTO THE PROPERTY. UM, SO CORY, WHAT WAS THE, WERE YOU ABLE TO FIND THE ONE THAT WE WERE TRYING TO VERIFY? IT WAS APPROVED. IT WAS APPROVED IN 2019 BY THE HCRC, WITH THE DRIVEWAY GATE. THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER CLARIFICATIONS OR QUESTIONS? I'D LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. I DO. I HAVE A SECOND. SECOND. ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS. AYE. GARCIA? AYE REGARD? FULLERTON? AYE. P*****K, NAY, VASQUEZ. AYE. AND VEDA. AYE. UH, KAREN, CAN YOU TURN ON YOUR, UM, CAMERA FOR YOUR VOTE PLEASE? [00:15:04] SO IF NOT, WE CAN JUST USE THE SIX VOTES WE HAVE. AND MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU GUYS. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, CTAC, CASE NUMBER 2024 DASH 3 78 4 15 BELKNAP. THE APPLICANT'S REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING WOOD SIDING LOCATED ON THE NORTH, SOUTH AND WEST WALL PLAINS WITH FIBER CEMENT SIDING WITH A SIMILAR PROFILE. UM, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL AT THIS TIME PRIOR TO APPROVAL. THE APPLICANT MUST DEMONSTRATE THE FOLLOWING, ONE THAT THE EXISTING WOOD SIDING IS DETERIORATE, DETERIORATED TO A POINT WHICH WOULD WARRANT WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT OVER THE RECOMMENDED SPOT TREATMENT. AND TWO, THAT THE PROPOSED HARDY PRODUCT BE SIMILAR VISUALLY TO THE HISTORIC WOOD SIDING PROFILE TO A POINT WHICH WOULD BE INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY. THE APPLICANT TREVOR, UH, POLLARD IS HERE IN PERSON. UH, MR. POLLARD, IF YOU'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF IN THE MICROPHONE AND, UM, UH, WALK THE COMMISSION THROUGH YOUR PROJECT. DO I PUSH A BUTTON? IT'S ALREADY TURNED OFF. OKAY. HI, I'M TREVOR POLLARD. GOOD MORNING. UH, FOUR 17 BENA, OR FOUR 15 THEY SAME BUILDING. AND IF YOU WANNA JUST WALK THE COMMISSION THROUGH, UM, KIND OF YOUR, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, THE REASONING BEHIND WHY YOU WANTED TO DO THE WHOLESALE, UH, WOOD REPLACEMENT FOR THE HARDY PRODUCT. SURE. THE, FROM THE STREET VIEW, THE, THE ORIGINAL PINE SIDING, IT'S A COLONIAL STYLE PINE SIDING THAT'S WAS REPLACED ACTUALLY WHEN I PURCHASED THE BUILDING. UM, SINCE THEN, THE, THE THREE OTHER FACADES HAVE EXTENSIVE DRY ROT, I MEAN A LOT. AND, UM, IT REALLY NEEDS TO BE FIXED. I THINK IT WOULD BE, UM, MORE ADVANTAGEOUS AND AND QUICKER TO REMOVE ALL THAT WHOLESALE AND JUST REPLACE IT. UM, AND MY HOPE WAS TO REPLACE IT WITH A HARDY PLANK BECAUSE, UH, IT'S, UH, IT'S ACTUALLY, I KNOW IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T ACHIEVE THE GOALS OF THE, OF THE SOCIETY PER SE. I ACTUALLY BROUGHT SOME, SHOULD I BRING THE SAMPLES UP? EXCUSE ME. WHO TO GIVE THEM TO IF YOU WOULD LIKE, YOU CAN JUST KIND OF, UH, BROADLY SHOW THEM THEN. UM, SO IF WE GET A STAFF MEMBER, WE CAN, UM, GO AHEAD AND, UH, UH, PASS THEM ALONG ONCE WE'RE DONE. OKAY. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL LAP SIDING AND THIS IS THE HARDY PLANK. AND YOU CAN SEE THE SAME, IT'S SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE THAT. IT'S NOT THE SAME THICKNESS, BUT IT'S THE SAME WIDTH. THE ADVANTAGE OF THE, OF THE HARDY PLANK IS THAT IT'S NON-COMBUSTIBLE. IT LASTS 50 YEARS, IT'S A LOT CHEAPER. AND, UM, IT GETS US A BACKING AND A PLYWOOD BACKING TO MAKE IT MORE STABLE. UM, AND I WAS REALLY CONCERNED THAT AFTER ABOUT FIVE TO 10 YEARS, THE, THE PINE WILL DETERIORATE AGAIN AND IT'LL HAVE TO BE DONE AGAIN. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE GOAL TO REPLACE THE, THE, THE PINE WITH THE HARDY PLANK. UM, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF BUILDINGS QUITE NEARBY WITHIN A BLOCK THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN REVISED WITH HARDY PLANK. SO I'M NOT SURE IF THAT WEIGHS INTO THE DECISION MAKING AT ALL, BUT THAT'S, THAT WAS MY ASK. THAT'S ABOUT IT REALLY. PEOPLE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? AND YOU, YOU CAN SEE FROM THE, WELL, YOU CAN SEE THE EXTENT OF THE DAMAGE THERE, BUT YOU CAN SEE FROM, UM, THE OTHER PICTURES OF THE LOCAL OH YES, THANK YOU. THE LOCAL, UH, BUILDINGS THAT WERE SIMILAR, THAT IT LOOKS QUITE GOOD FROM THE, FROM THE STREET AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE THREE SIDES FROM THE, FROM THE STREET THAT I'M PROPOSING TO REPLACE. SO THE LOOK, THE STREET APPEAL WILL BE THE SAME. UM, ADDITIONALLY TO, UM, THE, THE APPLICANT'S NOTED THAT THE PRODUCT THAT STAFF IS HANDING OUT, UM, THE, THE APPLICANT WOULD, UM, INSTALL A HARDY PRODUCT FEATURING A SMOOTH FINISH. SO IT WOULD NOT FEATURE THE FAUX WOOD GRAIN ON THE [00:20:01] EXAMPLES PROVIDED. I CAN PUT UP EITHER ONE, WHICHEVER THE COMMITTEE PREFERS, BUT CARE CURRENTLY, CURRENTLY IT'S SMOOTH. MAY I ADDRESS THE APPLICANT? ABSOLUTELY. THANK YOU. UM, SO THESE, IS THIS THE ONE YOU'RE HOPING TO USE SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT? YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S UPSIDE. YOU'VE GOT IT UPSIDE DOWN, BUT YEAH. BUT THIS LOOKS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN, THAN WHAT THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE, RIGHT? CORRECT. BUT WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU INSTALL IT, YEAH, THERE YOU GO. THERE YOU GO. WHEN YOU INSTALL IT, IT OVERLAPS. SO YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE MOST OF THAT ON THE PINE. YOU CAN'T SEE MOST OF THAT CURVATURE THERE WHEN IT'S OVERLAPPED. AND HOW OLD IS YOUR HOME? OOH, 1925 I THINK. SO IT'S LASTED ALMOST A HUNDRED YEARS WITH JUST THE WOOD. WELL, UM, ACTUALLY STAFF CAN ADD SOME CLARIFICATION. SO, GO AHEAD. UM, A PART OF FINDING A, FOR OUR, UH, RESEARCH ON THIS PROPERTY, UM, THERE USED TO BE A STRUCTURE, UM, IN THAT LOCATION IN, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST IN THE 1930S, UH, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE DOESN'T APPEAR THOUGH IN ANY MAP UNTIL 1951. SANBORN MAPS, UM, IT FIRST APPEARS AS A REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE FOR THE, UM, BUILDING FACING THE, UH, THE SOUTH STREET. I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME, BUT, UH, THIS PROPERTY ITSELF IS NOT FROM 1925. OKAY. SO THEN MAYBE ABOUT 80 YEARS, 70 YEARS. BUT IT'S LASTED THIS LONG. UM, WITH JUST THE REGULAR WOOD? WELL, DEBATABLE, DEPENDING IF YOU LOOK AT THE ROD, YEAH. YEAH, SURE. OKAY. AND I'LL ADD, I DON'T, I MEAN WE'RE ASSUMING THIS IS ORIGINAL, I THINK IT COULD BE. UM, BUT UNLESS WE WERE TO PULL IT OFF AND REALLY LOOK AT THE WOOD GRAIN AND GET A SENSE OF HOW OLD IT IS, THIS IS A PRETTY COMMON PROFILE. AND SO IT COULD HAVE BEEN REPLACED OVER TIME, LIKE WITH SOMETHING SIMILAR. UM, SO JUST MY 2 CENTS. SO THE ONE YOU'RE OF THE TWO YOU SHOWED RIGHT NOW, UH, THAT YOU PASSED AROUND, I SEE QUITE A DIFFERENCE IN THEM AND UM, I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY LOOK SIMILAR AND EACH LITTLE CHANGE YOU MAKE TO THAT HOME CHANGES IT BIT BY BIT AND PIECE BY PIECE AND THAT HELPS DETERIORATE THE HISTORIC APPEAL OF THE HOME. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT? SURE. SO FROM, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, FROM THE FRONT, THE FRONT FACADE WILL BE MAINTAINED THE SAME. AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S ALL YOU CAN SEE FROM THE STREET APPEAL. SO THE SIDES WOULD, THE SIDES IN THE, THE REAR WOULD BE THE, WOULD THE BE THE HARDY PLANK. AND AS I SAID, WHEN, WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM THE STREET, WHETHER YOU LOOK AT THE ONE ON BELL NAP AND WOODLAWN THAT WAS RECENTLY REVISED, IT LOOKS VERY SIMILAR FROM THE STREET. BUT I'LL GRANT YOU, I MEAN IT'S CLEAR VISUALLY AND ON, YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PROFILE. BUT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A FRONT ON, YOU CAN'T SEE A DIFFERENCE FROM THE STREET. AND WHAT YOU'RE HOPING TO PUT IS ON, WHERE IS THIS GONNA BE APPLIED TO? TO THE, THE, THE SIDES IN THE BACK. THE SIDES IN THE BACK. NOT THE FRONT. THE FRONT'S ALREADY BEEN REPLACED WITH THE ORIGINAL GOOD. WELL, WITH THE, WITH THE COLONIAL PINE. WITH THE COLONIAL PINE, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL WAS OBVIOUSLY. WELL, I'M NOT EVEN THAT OLD. I'M OLDER THE MOST Y'ALL, BUT THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM MY COLLEAGUES TO THE RIGHT? I HAVE A QUESTION. GO AHEAD MA'AM. UM, ARE YOU SAYING THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME HOMES IN THE, IN THE VICINITY THAT HAVE THE HARDY PLANK ALREADY? YES. ARE ARE WE ABLE TO PULL ONE OF THOSE UP TO SEE WHAT THE DIFFERENCE LOOKS LIKE? WANNA DO YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE ADDRESSES? IT'S AT THE CORNER. I, I SUBMITTED A COUPLE OF PICTURES, THE CORNER OF BELKNAP AND, AND WOODLAWN. THERE'S TWO VERY CLOSE TO THEM THERE. THAT'S ONE OF THEM. AND THEN MY, MY SECOND QUESTION IS DO THEY TALK, UH, ARE THERE EXPECTED LONGEVITY BETWEEN THE, THE WOOD AND THE HARDY PLANK THAT ARE LIKE KNOWN? I KNOW YOU SAID THE, THE HARDY PLANK. YEAH, THE WOOD'S EXPECTED TO LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS. THE HARDY PLANK'S GUARANTEED AT LEAST 50. MAY I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? YES MA'AM. SO IS THAT, UM, WHERE DID YOU GET THE 10 YEAR FOR THE WOOD FROM THE CONTRACTOR [00:25:01] AND THE WOOD SUPPLIER? MM-HMM. UM, IS THAT IF IT'S PROPERLY MAINTAINED, MEANING THAT IT'S SEALED SO THAT THE MOISTURE CAN'T GET INTO IT? I DON'T KNOW INTO THAT, YEAH. OKAY. MAINTENANCE IS, IS FAR SIMILAR, FAR EASIER WITH THE HARDY PLANK. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BASICALLY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO IT. SO I DON'T PLAN ON OWNING THE, THE HOME FOR DECADES, BUT THE NEXT OWNER WILL HAVE A LOT EASIER TIME MAINTAINING IT TO MAINTAIN THE, THE APPEARANCE WITH THE HARDY PLAN. 'CAUSE YOU BASICALLY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING TO IT, RIGHT? YOU CAN PAINT IT, BUT DON'T HAVE TO. I'M NOT FAMILIAR. OKAY. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD SIR. I HAVE A QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OR CAN YOU SPEAK TO THE IMPROVEMENTS IN ENERGY EFFICIENCY FROM THE HARDY PLANKS AS HARDY PLANK AS TO THE WOOD? NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE TO THAT EFFECT. BUT WITH THE HARDY PLANK, THEY DO ADD ANOTHER LAYER UNDERNEATH IT. 'CAUSE THEY HAVE TO SECURE IT TO, TO IT. SO THAT'S ANOTHER LAYER. AND THEN THEY PUT THE TIGHT DECK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A MOISTURE BARRIER MORE THAN INSULATION. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR CLARIFICATIONS? I WOULD LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MADAM CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STEP STIPULA STAFF STIPULATIONS. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT. ROLL CABO, PLEASE. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? UM, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT, UM, HARDY PLANK IS A GREAT PRODUCT. UM, I SH I SH I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD CON SAY THAT WITH CONDITIONS, BUT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION I THINK IT WORKS REALLY WELL. UM, BUT I THINK THAT IN LOOKING AT THIS STRUCTURE, UM, I THINK IT, IT'S NOT BEYOND REPAIR, SO NO. ANY OTHER FURTHER DISCUSSION OR COMMENTS? RO CAVO PLEASE. DAVIS AYE. GARCIA? AYE. REGARD? AYE. FULLERTON? AYE. P*****K. AYE. VASQUEZ AYE. AND VEDA AYE. MOTION CARRIES. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD SIR. OKAY. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER THREE C TAB CASE NUMBER 2024 DASH 3 77 4 4 4 43 DONALDSON AVENUE. THE APPLICANT'S REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO PAINT THE EXTERIOR MASONRY STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST. BASED ON THE FINDINGS, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT REMOVE THE EXISTING EXTERIOR PAINT WITHOUT DAMAGE TO HISTORIC MASONRY ON SITE. THE APPLICANT KEVIN SHANNON IS HERE. UM, IN PERSON, UH, THERE ARE TWO IN PUBLIC, UH, TWO IN-PERSON PUBLIC SPEAKERS SIGNED UP TO DISCUSS THIS REQUEST AS WELL. UM, MR. SHANNON, IF YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF, UH, TO THE COMMISSION AND THEN WALK THE COMMISSIONERS THROUGH YOUR PROJECT, YOU'LL HAVE 15 MINUTES. ALRIGHT, KEVIN SHANNON, 4 43 DONALDSON, FIRST OF ALL, I AGREE. PAINTING THE HOUSE TAKES AWAY THE BEAUTY, THE HISTORIC VALUE, AND CERTAINLY THE MONETARY VALUE, WHICH IS MY CONCERN. BUT THE HOUSE WAS PAINTED BACK IN MARCH AND I THINK Y'ALL CITED THEM IN APRIL. I DIDN'T BUY THE HOUSE UNTIL JULY. I'VE SPENT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AT MAN HOURS TRYING TO GET THE PAINT OFF THAT WE DIDN'T PUT ON THERE. I'VE USED A COAL SLAG, EVERYTHING THAT Y'ALL HAVE RECOMMENDED. WE'VE USED STEAM, WE'VE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE. AND ON SOME OF THE HOUSE THAT CAME OFF, BUT ON THE SIDE WHERE THE SUN HITS, IT'S NOT COMING OFF. WE'VE TRIED EVERYTHING TO GET IT OFF, BUT Y'ALL THINK THAT WE PAINTED IT, WE DID NOT PAINT THAT IT WAS NOT PAINT THAT IT WAS LIKE THAT WHEN I BOUGHT THE HOUSE. I HAVE THE DEED HERE. I THINK I SENT COPIES OF IT TO SHOW I DIDN'T BUY IT UNTIL JULY. I WISH I COULD GET THE PAINT OFF. I DO, BUT I I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO. AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER HOUSES [00:30:02] CLOSE BY. ONE OF THE THINGS I'D LIKE TO SAY IS WE'VE TRIED PRESSURE WASHING, WE'VE TRIED, AND YOU ARE, SIR, COULD YOU IDENTIFY MY NAME? I'M HIS PARTNER. UH, WE'VE, WE'VE TRIED PRESSURE WASHING, WE'VE TRIED THE COAL LAG, WE'VE TRIED USING STEAM. WE'VE TRIED, UH, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTAL FRIENDLY CHEMICALS. NOTHING HAS WORKED WELL THAT IS NOT AFFECTING THE INTEGRITY OF THE BRICK AND THE GROUT. AND THAT'S MY BIG CONCERN, RIGHT? HOW STRUCTURALLY SOUND IS IT GONNA BE IF WE CONTINUE TO TRY TO GET THAT OFF AT ALL COSTS? RIGHT. AND, AND WE HAVE IMAGES AND WE, I JUST GOT THEM, BUT WE HAVE IMAGES OF WHERE IT'S AFFECTING THE INTEGRITY OF NOT ONLY THE BRICK, BUT ALSO THE GROUT. AND WE'D BE DOING A LOT MORE DAMAGE TAKING IT OFF THAN IF WE PAINTED IT. AND THERE IS ALSO, UM, I, I ASKED ABOUT A HOUSE AT 4 54 DONALDSON, WHICH HAS BEEN PAINTED, AND THEY TOLD ME THAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN, HAD TO HAVE BEEN PAINTED PRIOR TO 1991 AND HAD BEEN GRANDFATHERED TO BE ALLOWED TO KEEP THE PAINT ON THE HOUSE. BUT WE ACTUALLY HAVE IMAGES WHERE IT WAS PAINTED, WE BELIEVE IN 2021, FEBRUARY OF 2021. IT WAS NOT PAINTED. AND SINCE THEN IT HAS BEEN PAINTED. ALL WE'RE ASKING IS THAT WE BE ABLE TO FINISH THE HOUSE, MAKE IT LOOK PRETTY, AND STILL KEEP THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE BECAUSE REMOVING THE PAINT IS NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT VIABLE. WOULD YOU GUYS LIKE TO SEE THE IMAGES? I WOULD GO AHEAD AND PROVIDE THEM. I'LL OPEN UP THE FLOOR TO, UH, QUESTIONS NOW TO MY COLLEAGUES STARTING AT THE RIGHT. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SURE. UH, WHAT TYPE OF PAINT IS IT? IT, IT'S JUST A, A WATER-BASED EXTERIOR PAINT. AND HAVE YOU READ, UM, THE MANUFACTURER'S INFORMATION IN REGARD TO POTENTIALLY HOW TO REMOVE IT? WE'VE TRIED ALL KINDS OF STUFF. HOWEVER, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PARTICULAR BRAND NOR THE PARTICULAR, UH, PAINT MODEL IS. WE JUST KNOW WHAT KIND IT IS. WE DIDN'T PAINT IT. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DIDN'T PAINT IT, BUT, UM, I WOULD THINK IN DOING DUE DILIGENCE THAT YOU COULD TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO MAYBE KNOWS ABOUT PAINT. HAVE YOU DONE THAT? ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. WE'VE, I'VE TALKED TO MY, UH, REGIONAL RED PPG. HIS NAME'S MATT. GOOD. I'VE KNOWN MATT FOR YEARS. WE'VE ASKED HIM WHAT DO WE DO? HOW DO WE DO THIS? WHAT CAN WE DO? WE HAVE TO GET IT OFF. WE HAVE SPENT WEEKS AND HUNDREDS OF MAN HOURS TRYING TO GET IT OFF BY HAND BY, YOU KNOW, ANY MEANS NECESSARY. IT'S NOT WORKING. LIKE HE SAID, THERE ARE SOME AREAS WHERE IT'S COMING OFF, YOU KNOW, IT, IT TAKES SOME WORK, IT TAKES SOME DOING, BUT IT'S, IT'S COMING OFF. THERE'S AREAS WHERE IT'S NOT. AND LAST THING WE WANT IS THE BRICK TO, TO NOT BE VIABLE. RIGHT? WE DON'T WANT THE, THE STRUCTURE OF THE HOUSE. ANO ANOTHER THING, IN MY OPINION, IF WE WERE TO PAINT IT, I THINK IT WOULD BE A BETTER OPTION EVEN IF IT WAS EASY TO TAKE OFF, RIGHT? THERE ARE SOME AREAS WHERE IT'S BEEN REPAIRED AND YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE GROUT THAT'S OLD AND THE NEW GROUT. AND IT, IT, UH, IF WE WERE ALLOWED TO PAINT IT, IT WOULD HELP US TO HIDE THAT AND MAKE IT MORE UNIFORM. UM, MADDEN CHAIR, BEFORE WE CONTINUE, UM, I JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU THAT, UH, OR REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT THERE'S TWO PUBLIC SPEAKERS AS WELL THAT ARE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. ABSOLUTELY. UM, AND SIR, ARE ARE Y'ALL DONE WITH Y'ALL'S PRESENTATION? I THINK SO, UNLESS Y'ALL HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS. WELL, THEY, THEY WILL HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS, BUT, UM, SO THE STRUCTURE OF THE COMMISSION IS, IS THAT YOU HAVE A, UM, PRESENTATION PERIOD AND THEN IT ALLOWS PUBLIC SPEAKERS. SO IF, RIGHT? SURE. ALRIGHT, GREAT. THANK YOU. PAM CARPENTER. GOOD MORNING BOARD. PAM CARPENTER, 2 45. MARY LOUISE DRIVE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE. UM, THIS TUDOR REVIVAL HOME SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN PAINTED. IT GOT NEUTERED IN THE PROCESS OF A REHAB AND ITS IDENTITY HAS BEEN COMPROMISED. THE INVESTOR THAT DID THIS DAMAGED THE MOST DISTINGUISHING VISUAL AND PHYSICAL FEATURE OF THIS PROPERTY. WHAT WAS DONE TO THE VENEER WAS CARELESS AND GROSSLY IRREVERENT TO OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT AT LARGE. NATURAL MASONRY MATERIALS ARE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF MONTICELLO PARK. OUR HOUSING STOCK IS TYPIFIED BY AUTHENTIC EARTH AND TONE, CLAY AND STONE MATERIALS THAT DON'T HAVE COATINGS OR FINISHES TO OBSCURE WHAT THE MATERIAL IS. FURTHER, THIS WAS NOT A REHABILITATION [00:35:01] PROJECT, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW. BY DEFINITION, REHABILITATION ARE FOR A COMPATIBLE USE FOR THE PROPERTY THROUGH REPAIRS AND ALTERATIONS WHILE PRESERVING ITS CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES. THE REHABILITATION STANDARD IS THAT THE CHARACTER WILL BE RETAINED OR PRESERVED AND MATERIALS WILL BE REPAIRED RATHER THAN REPLACED AND MATCH PAINTING. BRICK IS VERY DESTRUCTIVE PRACTICE AND IT SHOULD BE REMOVED THROUGH THE MOST GENTLEST TREATMENTS POSSIBLE. IT IS POSSIBLE TO REMOVE, WHILE MECHANICAL METHODS WILL DAMAGE THE MASONRY FINISH. IT HAS NOT BEEN ON THAT LONG AND SHOULD BE REVERSIBLE USING CHEMICAL METHODS. THERE ARE SPECIALTY CONSTRUCTION CHEMICAL MANUFACTURERS SUCH AS PROCO, THAT PROVIDE CUSTOMER FIELD SUPPORT FOR REMOVAL TREATMENTS OF HIGH, MOST HIGH STRING PAINTS, AS WELL AS OFFER FREE SAMPLES FOR THEIR PRODUCTS TO TEST OUT SUCH AS SAFE STRIP OR SAFE STRIP EIGHT BY PROCO, ALLOWING THE OWNER NOT TO REMOVE THIS PAINT SETS A BAD PRECEDENT TO OTHERS WHO DO SO WITHOUT CITY APPROVAL. IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT HAVE HAD TO DO SO IN THE PAST. THE INTEGRITY OF THE EXTERIOR MATERIAL AS WELL AS THE CONSISTENCY TO THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD NEEDS TO BE RESTORED. THE PAINT NEEDS TO BE STRIPPED OFF. 4 4 3. DONALDSON IS A CONTRIBUTING PART OF A COLLECTIVE RESOURCE THAT IS A WELL-PRESERVED HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT EXTENDS BEYOND AN INDIVIDUAL PROPERTY OWNER'S PREFERENCES. OWNERS OF THESE HOMES BUY INTO AN ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ADHERES TO GUIDELINES TO PRESERVE CHARACTER INTEGRITY. THE OWNERS SHOULD BE AWARE OF THIS THROUGH THE REAL ESTATE TRANSACTION DISCLOSURES, VISUAL EVIDENCE, AND THAT IDENTIFY THIS CLEARLY AS A HISTORIC PROPERTY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH REQUIRES APPROVALS FOR EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS ARE BROWN STREET SIGN DESIGNATION MEANS SOMETHING. IF WE CAN PUT ROVERS ON MARS, WE CAN TAKE PAINT OFF THIS BRICK. THANK YOU. COUNCIL MALDONADO, OUR NEXT PUBLIC SPEAKER, . GOOD MORNING. BIANCA MALDONADO FROM MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. PO O BOX 1 0 0 3 1 5. WE ARE HERE TO STRONGLY ADVOCATE FOR STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. I WANNA LET YOU KNOW THIS IS A BLATANT VIOLATION. THEY WERE ISSUED A STOP WORK ORDER AND THEY CONTINUE TO PAINT THE NEXT DAY. THERE WAS A COMPLIANCE AGREEMENT THAT WAS EXECUTED WITH THE PRIOR OWNER AND WITH OHP, THESE ARE ALL CONDITIONS THAT ARE DISCLOSED WHEN A PROPERTY SELLS. THESE ARE THE CONDITIONS IN WHICH THE CURRENT OWNER HAS INHERITED. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT THE BRICK DID GET PAINTED. I WILL SPEAK THAT TO 4 54 DONALDSON. THE PROPERTY THAT THEY WERE BRINGING UP, THAT'S ALSO PAINTED, THAT'S AN ACTIVE VIOLATION CASE TOO. WE CAN ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY FOR INTERPRETATION OF WHERE THAT CASE STANDS IN THE COMPLIANCE PROCESS TOO. BUT AS MS. CARPENTER STATED, MASONRY ELEMENTS ARE A CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THERE IS A HUGE SUCCESS OF A PAINTED, UM, IT WAS A ROCK BRICK MIXTURE, UM, AND IT DID COMPROMISE THE MORTAR, BUT THAT IS PART OF THE REPAIR PROCESS WHEN THEY BROUGHT THAT HOME BACK AND REMOVED THE PAINT ON THE CORNER OF SUMMIT. UM, THAT HOUSE ALSO IS IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT THE MOST CRITICAL PIECE IS THAT YES, WE UNDERSTAND THERE COULD BE DAMAGE THAT'S DONE IN THE REMOVAL WITH THE MORTAR, BUT WE'VE ALSO SEEN AN ENTIRE BRICK WALL REMOVED AND PUT BACK ON EVEN ON THIS BLOCK. THAT'S PART OF THE RESTORATION OF THE PROCESS OF REMOVING THIS PAINT AND BRINGING THE STRUCTURE BACK TO LIFE. AND I THINK THOSE ARE ELEMENTS THAT THEY'RE INHERITING. THIS IS WHAT THEY BOUGHT, THIS IS WHAT THEY GOT INTO. THERE WAS A COMPLIANCE AGREEMENT I HOPEFULLY WAS DISCLOSED. UM, THIS IS A HIGH CONCERN IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WITH THESE, UM, INDIVIDUALS THAT COME IN AND WANNA DO IMPROVEMENTS AND ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES. AND WE ASK FOR ADHERENCE FOR THOSE GUIDELINES FOR THIS APPLICANT AND FOR ALL APPLICANTS IN THE FUTURE. THANKS SO MUCH FOR CONSIDERATION OF COMMENTS AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HAPPY TO RELAY THE INFORMATION. IT WAS REPORTED TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN THE HOUSE BEGAN TO BE PAINTED. WE KNOW THEY WERE ISSUED A STOP WORK ORDER. WE CALLED OHP AND SAID THE WORK IS CONTINUING THE NEXT DAY. AND THAT WAS WITH THE PRIOR OWNER. SO IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT WHAT IS OCCURRING, UM, AND IT TOOK THIS LONG FOR THE REMOVAL PROCESS TO BEGIN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE'LL GO AHEAD AND ADDRESS ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANTS AND POSSIBLY THE FIRST SPEAKER. UM, YOU CAN WE GO AHEAD AND BRING THE APPLICANT UP TO THE MIC FIRST PLEASE? I KNOW YOU GUYS HAD SAID YOU TRIED A, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT METHODS TO REMOVE THE PAINT AND THEN I KNOW THE FIR FIRST SPEAKER MENTIONED SOME IN PARTICULAR. [00:40:01] AND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAUGHT THOSE. UM, MA'AM, WOULD YOU MIND REPEATING THE, THE TYPES OF REMOVAL, UM, THE PRODUCTS THAT YOU MENTIONED? YES, IT'S, UH, THE COMPANY'S CALLED PROCO, P-R-O-S-O-C-O, AND THEY SPECIALIZE IN, UM, PAINT REMOVAL, GRAFFITI REMOVAL AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS. AND SO THEY HAVE CUSTOMER SUPPORT, PRODUCT REPRESENTATIVES, PEOPLE THAT'LL COME OUT THERE. THEY'LL OFFER FREE SAMPLES AND IT'S CALLED SAFES STRIP, S-A-S-S-T-R-I-P AND THEN SAFES STRIP EIGHT. THAT SHOULD BE SUCCESSFUL. AND UM, THERE'S, THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF SUPPORT THROUGH THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY. I'M SURE THERE'S OTHERS OUT THERE, BUT AS, AS A BASIS OF RECOMMENDATION THAT THAT'S A GOOD COMPANY TO, TO USE. HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU TRIED LIKE METHODS LIKE SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT OR THAT COMPANY IN PARTICULAR? AS I MENTIONED, I CALLED MAC DUDE WHO'S, UH, REGIONAL, UH, REP FOR PPG. AND PPG IS SOLD AT HOME DEPOT AND LOWE'S AS WELL AS THEIR OWN STANDALONE STORES, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. WE DID USE SAFE STRIP AND WE TRIED A COUPLE OTHER THINGS. WE TRIED, UH, I MEAN WE TRIED EVERYTHING ACETONE IN SMALL AREAS. OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE WANT TO DO BECAUSE ONE, IT'S EXPENSIVE. TWO, IT'S NOT AS ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY AS SOME OF THESE OTHER THINGS. BUT WHEN YOU TRY THE ENVIRONMENTALLY STUFF, ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY PRODUCTS AND THEY DON'T WORK, WHAT DO YOU DO? RIGHT? WE GOTTA GET IT OFF. WE GOTTA GET IT OFF. I'M TRYING, WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO? WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO, THERE'S A DIALOGUE BETWEEN HE AND I RIGHT? AND I'M IN THE FIELD DOING, BELIEVE ME, WE WOULD'VE, WE WOULD'VE PREFERRED IT NOT BE PAINTED, BUT THIS IS, THIS IS OUR LOT, RIGHT? THIS IS WHAT WE INHERITED. SO WE'RE MAKING THE BEST OF A BAD SITUATION. UH, I AGREE. IT WOULD BE BEAUTIFUL IF WE COULD HAVE KEPT A BRICK AND IT'S NOT JUST THE MORTAR, IT'S THE BRICK THAT'S BEING AFFECTED. YOU GUYS HAVE THE IMAGES, I CAN'T, WHAT AM I GONNA DO? RE BRICK THE WHOLE HOUSE. AND UH, THE COMPLIANCE AGREEMENT THAT WAS BROUGHT UP, WAS THAT DISCLOSED TO YOU GUYS WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE HOUSE? I'M SURE IT WAS. HE DOES. HE GOES TO SIGN-INS AND ALL THAT, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING IT. I DON'T DOUBT IT WAS THERE, BUT I WENT THROUGH IT AND I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THAT THE HOUSE WAS IN A LAWSUIT FROM THE HISTORIC SOCIETY. IT IT WAS, YEAH. OH, AND THEN LASTLY, ARE THE PHOTOS SUBMITTED KIND OF THE MOST RECENT AFTER YOUR ATTEMPTS TO REMOVE THE PAINT? YES MA'AM. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN, WE, WE WANT TO BE COMPLIANT, BUT HOW DO WE DO THAT WITHOUT JEOPARDIZING THE INTEGRITY OF THE BRICK, THE MORTAR? SURE. WHATEVER WE COULD, WE COULD PUT MORTAR IN, BUT WE CANNOT RE BRICK THE ENTIRE HOUSE. THAT WOULD JUST, WE'VE DONE OTHER HOUSES IN THE HISTORY. YEAH. WE JUST FINISHED ONE AT THREE 20 CLUB AND WE PRIDE OURSELF, WE ON KEEPING IT TRUE TO THE AGE. YEAH. LIGHT FIXTURES. I MEAN, WE DO A PHENOMENAL JOB ON THESE OLDER HOMES WITH, BUT THIS ONE IS JUST AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE SOMEBODY COVERED IT. SOMEBODY DID WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO WITHOUT ANY REGARD TO, AS YOU ALL HAVE MENTIONED, THE HISTORIC SOCIETY. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE DO. RIGHT. YOU CAN GO LOOK AT THREE 20 CLUB. WE STAY TRUE TO THE HOUSE INSIDE AND OUT. IT'S, IT'S HOW WE DO IT. WE DID THE SAME THING AT WAVERLY. YOU KNOW, WE, IT'S 130 4-YEAR-OLD HOUSE AND SO YOU GUYS HAVE A HISTORY OF WORKING WITH HISTORIC HOMES AND KIND OF BRINGING THEM BACK AND RENOVATING. SO YOU HAVE A HISTORY OF TRY OF THESE METHODS OR WORKING ON THESE METHODS OR TRYING THESE THINGS ON, ON SIMILAR HOMES. EXACTLY. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN REMOVING PAINT FROM BRICK BEFORE? WE'VE NEVER HAD TO TRY AND WE'VE TRIED EVERYTHING. I MEAN, I'LL GLADLY TRY THIS PARTICULAR BRAND, BUT YEAH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS I HAVE? WHAT A QUESTION. SURE. SO YOU SAY YOU'VE TRIED EVERYTHING. HAVE YOU TRIED ENGAGING THE SERVICES OF A PRESERVATION EXPERT WHO SPECIALIZES IN THIS KIND OF, UH, BRICKWORK AND REMOVAL OF PAINT? I WOULDN'T SAY A A SPECIALIZED EXPERT, BUT I HAVE CONSULTED WITH, AGAIN, I, MATT GOOD WITH PPG, HE'S BEEN DOING IT FOR 30 YEARS. UH, I'VE BEEN TALKING TO HIM AND HE USING HIM FOR SEVEN YEARS. SO I'VE NEVER BEEN IN A SITUATION WHERE HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO HELP ME OR OFFER A GOOD SOLUTION. AGAIN, IT'S NOT THE ENTIRE HOUSE, IT'S JUST CERTAIN AREAS WHERE WE CAN'T GET IT OFF. AND WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO? THE SUN'S QUITE GOOD IN. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? UH, I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION ONLINE IF, IF THAT'S OKAY. I ABSOLUTELY GO AHEAD. OH, THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. UM, SO THIS IS ACTUALLY PROBABLY FOR STAFF, PLEASE. UM, COULD STAFF OR [00:45:01] MADAM CHAIR, EITHER ONE. COULD YOU READ, UM, THE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS MORE TIME? EXCUSE ME, MS. ARD? THANK YOU. WE NEED YOU ON CAMERA. YES, WE NEED YOU ON CAMERA, PLEASE. OH, I, I DUNNO IF IT'LL GO, UM, I CAN TRY. OKAY. UM, I, YEAH, MY, MY CAMERA'S GOING IN AND OUT, BUT, UM, I JUST WOULD LIKE THE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS TO BE READ AGAIN. I'M SORRY. WE NEED YOU ON CAMERA IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEETING. OH, OKAY. I, OKAY. I, I, CAN YOU SEE ME NOW? YES. BRIAN, GO AHEAD AND READ THAT WHILE WE WORK ON THAT. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU. I I JUST WOULD LIKE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS READ AGAIN. SURE. SO, UM, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST BASED ON THE FINDINGS. UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT REMOVE THE EXISTING EXTERIOR PAINT WITHOUT DAMAGE TO HISTORIC MASONRY ON SITE. OKAY. THANKS. I HAVE A COMMENT, MADAM. GO AHEAD. INTERESTING. THE WAR, THE VERBIAGE USED IN THE RECOMMENDATION IS WITHOUT DAMAGE. RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. YES. AND, AND JUST TO CLARIFY TOO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR PAINT REMOVAL WITHOUT DAMAGE TO HISTORIC MASONRY, IT, IT'S PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON THE BRICK. UM, AS THE APPLICANTS HAVE NOT NOTED, YOU KNOW, THERE WITH PAINT REMOVAL, THERE IS SOME EXPECTATION OF, UM, SOME TYPE OF MORTAR DAMAGE. BUT, UM, AS SOME OF THE PUBLIC SPEAKERS NOTED, UM, PART OF THE REPAIR OF A STRUCTURE USING BRICK WOULD BE THE IN KIND REPAIR OF ME, UH, MORTAR AS WELL. AND SO, UM, AS NOTED WITH, UH, UH, MS. MALDONADO'S, UH, OTHER CASE THAT WE'VE WORKED ON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR, UH, PAINT REMOVAL, UM, THAT HAD ALSO EXPERIENCED MORTAR UH, DAMAGE AS WELL, AND THAT WAS REPAIRED IN KIND. SO, UM, THAT'S JUST TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UM, UH, BUT YEAH, IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, PLEASE LET US KNOW. I, I, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THE MASONRY DAMAGE AND THAT'S VERY EASY FIX, BUT I'M CONCERNED WITH THE DAMAGE TO THE BRICK AND IT APPEARS TO ME BASED ON THE PHOTOS THAT THAT MAY BE OCCURRING. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION, SIR. ON YOUR REVIEWING ON BEING ABLE TO FIND LIKE PRODUCTS TO BE ABLE TO REMOVE THE PAINT, HAVE YOU RECEIVED RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE, UH, FROM THE STAFF? YES. THAT WAS A AND YOU TRIED THOSE AS WELL? COAST LAG WAS THEIR RECOMMENDATION AND WE TRIED IT. OKAY. AND THEN YOU WENT TO OHP AND YOU'VE USED THEIR PRODUCTS AS WELL, OH BECAUSE YOU, THE RE THE STATEMENT THAT YOU MADE IS YOU'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE GENTLEMAN WHO'S DONE PAINT FOR 30 YEARS. P-P-G-P-P-G. YES. HOWEVER, HE'S NOT IN THE SPECIALTY AREA, IS THAT CORRECT? NO, BUT SO MY CONCERN WOULD I, HE'S A I SIR. UM, I DIDN'T INTERRUPT YOU. OKAY. SO THE STATEMENT IS THAT YOU HAVE NOT GONE TO A HISTORICAL SPECIALIST WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THESE HOMES. AND YOU MAY HAVE HAD THAT, HOWEVER, HAVE YOU GONE TO OHP AND WORKED DIRECTLY WITH THEM SO WE CAN COME UP WITH A SOLUTION? WHAT IS OHP? THAT'S US. AND I'LL JUST CLARIFY. OUR RECOMMENDED SOLUTION IS THE SAME PRODUCT OR, UM, TREATMENT THAT THE PROPERTY ON DONALDSON USED TO REMOVE THE PAINT AND IT'S NOT SAND BLASTING INSTEAD OF SAND, THEY USE COAL SLAG. AND SO IT'S NOT AS ABRASIVE. UM, IT DOES GET IN THERE AND MAY, MAY REQUIRE SOME REPAIRS. WE USE THAT. WE TRIED IT, WE WENT THROUGH 50 POUNDS IN, IN AN AREA ABOUT THREE BY THREE, AND WE DID NOT GET THE RESULTS THAT WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WAS CLEAR IT AGAIN IN VIDEO IT IF WE'D LIKE TO COME OUT AND WATCH IT. MADAM CHAIR. GO AHEAD, SIR. SO, UM, IT WAS MENTIONED BY, UH, STAFF AND ONE OF THE SPEAKERS THAT THERE'S A HOUSE ONE BLOCK UP RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER ON WEST KINGS HIGHWAY. UM, WEST KINGS HIGHWAY INVOL, UM, THAT IS MADE OF STUCCO. MM-HMM. STONE AND BRICK. MM-HMM. . THAT HOUSE WAS PAINTED OVER, NOT ONCE BUT TWICE, UM, WITH TWO DIFFERENT LAYERS OF PAINT. WHAT TYPE? I'M NOT SURE, BUT THEY SUCCESSFULLY REMOVED IT AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT ORIGINALLY WAS OKAY. UM, IT WAS STUCCO, STUCCO PAINT AND IT'S MADE OF STUCCO BRICK AND BRICK AND STONE. AND THEY PAINTED OVER ALL THREE AND THEY WERE SUCCESSFUL IN REMOVING THE PAINT FROM THAT. SO I THINK, UM, IT'S [00:50:01] POSSIBLE WITH THIS, IN THIS CASE AS WELL, STONE IS A LOT TOUGHER THAN A HUNDRED YEAR OLD BRICK. SAY IT AGAIN. STONE IS A LOT MORE DURABLE THAN A HUNDRED YEAR OLD BRICK. SURE. BUT THE STONE IS ONLY AN ACCENT ON THAT HOUSE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS HOUSE AND UH, THAT HOUSE HAS MOSTLY BRICK AS WELL. CAN I MAKE A SUGGESTION? WHAT IF WE PAINTED IT TO MATCH THE SIR? NO, SIR. THE DISCUSSION IS ACTUALLY ON WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION IS FROM THE STAFF AND YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO GO BACK AND WORK WITH OHP. OKAY. WELL, SO AT THIS POINT, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AND CLARIFICATIONS? AND MADAM CHAIR, MAY I ASK ONE QUESTION OF STAFF? ABSOLUTELY. UH, BRIAN, WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE, THE BRICK THAT YOU NOTICED OF, UM, AS IT IS CURRENTLY? UM, I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE SPECIFIC CONDITION. I KNOW THAT THE APPLICANT TODAY IS PRESENTED PHOTOS TO THE COMMISSION FOR REVIEW. UM, STAFF HAS NOT HAD A CHANCE TO INCORPORATE THOSE IN ANY RECOMMENDATION, UH, TO THIS COMMISSION. OKAY. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD SIR. I, I, IF THAT'S THE CASE, UH, MY THINKING IS THAT THE STAFF GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE EXTENT OF THE REMEDIATION AND THEN COME BACK WITH A SECOND RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THE RESULTS OF YOUR INSPECTION. DO WE HAVE A, IS THAT A MOTION? MADAM CHAIR? I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. GO AHEAD, SIR. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. DO I HAVE A SECOND? CLARIFICATION AND LEGAL? CAN YOU THINK, CAN WE GET, WE'RE REQUESTING CLARIFICATION. GO AHEAD. I, I'M JUST NOT SURE WHAT THE RECOMMENDATION WAS ON. SO YOU'RE PROVING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION? MM-HMM. , IS THAT CORRECT? MA'AM? THAT'S YOUR MOTION, CORRECT? YES. MOVE TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. ALRIGHT. AND THE MADAM CHAIR HAS ASKED FOR, FOR IT WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY DENYING OKAY. AND THE PAINT, RIGHT? IT WOULD BE TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS? YES. AND THAT WAS MY MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? I WILL SECOND. THIS IS KAREN. CAN WE HAVE DISCUSSION? UH, MY DISCUSSION? MY POINT IS, IS WHO DETERMINES WITHOUT DAMAGE? AND I, I UNDERSTAND THE MORTAR DAMAGE CAN BE EASILY REPLACED, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE EXTENT OF THE DAMAGE IS TO THE BRICK BEFORE WE APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE ANYTHING. AND I WOULD LIKE THE STAFF GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE BRICK AND, AND, AND WORK WITH THEM. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? IS THAT AN AMENDED MOTION, MR. P*****K? YES, I DO HAVE A CONCERN. UM, AND I THINK IT'S RELATED TO THE ONE THAT WAS JUST, UH, STATED, AND THAT IS THAT, UM, IN LOOKING AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS, I HAVE TO SAY, UH, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DAMAGE DONE IN YOUR ATTEMPTS TO, TO REMOVE THE MATE THE PAINT. AND I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATE. UM, AND I WOULD JUST SAY THAT I, I REALLY BELIEVE IT KIND OF NEEDS TO BE DONE UNDER SOME KIND OF EXPERT SUPERVISION. UH, WHICH MAYBE GOES BACK TO, YOU KNOW, THE OHP DOING ANOTHER INSPECTION AND MAYBE DOCUMENTING WHERE IT IS IN THE PROCESS NOW IN TERMS OF, OF, YOU KNOW, METHODS THAT HAVE BEEN USED AND HOW YOU USE THEM. BECAUSE JUST BECAUSE YOU FOLLOWED SOMEBODY'S RECOMMENDATION, IT DEPENDS ON HOW YOU'RE APPLYING THAT SOLUTION AS TO WHETHER IT'S GONNA BE SUCCESSFUL OR NOT. AND, UM, I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT SOMEBODY WITH 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN THE PAINT BUSINESS IS NOT A PRESERVATION EXPERT MAKE IN REGARD TO PAINT. SO I THINK THAT THERE'S STILL MORE THAT CAN HAPPEN HERE. UM, AND I WOULD JUST ALSO, I MEAN, MY CONCERN IS THAT NOTHING ELSE GETS DONE UNTIL SOMETHING GETS, YOU KNOW, GO AHEAD, FIGURED OUT AS A GAME PLAN. I JUST, I CAN SUPPORT WHAT YOU SAID, UH, HAVING [00:55:01] THE STAFF RE-LOOK AT IT AND, AND MAYBE MAKE SOME MORE RECOMMENDATIONS. AND UNFORTUNATELY, IN ESSENCE, WE'RE ESSENTIALLY KICKING IT DOWN THE ROAD A LITTLE BIT. BUT, UM, BUT I CAN SUPPORT WHAT YOU SAID. OKAY. IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? WELL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY I CONCUR BECAUSE MY CONCERN AT THIS POINT WOULD BE THE FOUNDATION AND THE BRICK. THE, I GUESS THE STABILITY OF THE BRICK IS MY CONCERN AT THIS POINT. AND I DON'T, I WOULDN'T WANT TO DESTROY SOMETHING THAT WAS ALREADY D LIKE, LIKE MONTICELLO'S, UH, I GUESS WAS, HAS ALREADY DEMONSTRATED THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE ONCE AND SO WE CAN'T DO IT AGAIN. AND, UH, AGAIN, IF WE HAVE AN EXPERT IN PRESERVATION, IS WHAT WE NEED TO SEEK, IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA NEED TO SEEK. SO THE AMENDMENT RIGHT NOW IS STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE, OF THE REQUEST BASED ON THE FINDINGS, BUT AMEND IT TO, WHAT WAS THE AMENDMENT FOR CLARIFICATION, PLEASE. UH, THAT WE HAVE THE STAFF GO BACK AND RE-LOOK AT THE DAMAGE AND MAYBE MAKE ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS AS FAR AS REMEDIATION. AND THERE WAS A MOTION ALREADY ON THE, THE FLOOR AND IT WAS SECONDED. IS THE AMENDED MOTION SECONDED? NOT YET. IT HASN'T BEEN YET. DO I HAVE A, A SECOND FOR AN AMENDED MOTION? WELL, CAN I JUST CLARIFY, THE WAY I HEAR IT IS THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER P*****K IS AGREEING WITH THE MOTION, BUT HE'S ADDING THE CLARIFICATION THAT STAFF NEEDS TO BE ON SITE TO CONFIRM THAT ADDITIONAL DAMAGE DOES NOT OCCUR. SO I FEEL LIKE IT'S THE SAME MOTION, SAME MOTION JUST IMPROVED. WOULD YOU AGREE? YES, I'M FINE WITH THAT. WE, I WILL GO AHEAD AND TAKE A ROLL CALL. VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS. WAIT, HOLD ON JUST A MOMENT. BUT THIS IS NOT WITH THE, MY MOTION WAS WITHOUT ANY AMENDMENTS. I KNOW, BUT THE STIPULATION IS THAT WITHOUT THE STIPULATION HAS LANGUAGE, THAT ADDITIONAL DAMAGE DOES NOT OCCUR. AND SO I THINK THE CLARIFICATION IS THAT STAFF WOULD WORK WITH THE APPLICANT JUST TO CONFIRM THAT STIPULATION IS UPHELD. RIGHT, REGARDLESS. OKAY, SO THEN WE DON'T NEED NO AMENDMENTS. SO THERE IS NO AMENDMENTS, CORRECT? NO CALL THE RULE. UH, I'M SORRY. CAN WE JUST HAVE ONE MORE STATEMENT OF WHAT, WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON? BRIAN, PLEASE READ STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO THE RECORD. THIS IS BASICALLY THE MOTION. UM, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST BASED ON THE FINDINGS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT REMOVE THE EXISTING EXTERIOR PAINT WITHOUT DAMAGE HISTORIC MASONRY ON SITE. AND SO WE'RE SAYING THAT WE AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER P*****K, LIKE STAFF WILL MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN WITH WHATEVER THE TREATMENT IS. SO THAT WAS THE CONCERN. AND SO THE MOTION WITHOUT AMENDMENT ADDRESSES THAT ALREADY. ROLL CALL, VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS. AYE. GARCIA? AYE. REGARD? YES. AYE. FULLERTON. AYE. P*****K. AYE. VASQUEZ. AYE. AND SEPULVEDA. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. MADAM CHAIR. DID I MAKE A POINT OF INFORMATION? GO AHEAD, SIR. UH, THANK YOU. I I'M I'M CURIOUS WHAT, OH, P'S UM, PROCESS IS FOR, UH, SORT OF, UH, UH, ITERATIVE LEARNING, UH, IN CASES LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE IT'S A PARTICULAR KIND OF BRICK OR BECAUSE IT'S A TEXTURED BRICK AND MAYBE THAT MIGHT BE, UH, COMPLICATING THE PAINT REMOVAL PROCESS. SO I'M, I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S A WAY WHERE IF WITH THE GUIDANCE OF OHP AND ANY OTHER THIRD PARTY, UM, ADVISOR, WE DO HAVE SUCCESS OR MAKE SUCCESS, I GUESS AT THIS POINT, WHATEVER THE RESULT MAY BE, IF THERE'S A WAY WE CAPTURE SOME OF THAT INFORMATION, NOT IN A FORMAL PROCESS, BUT AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, MAYBE AS A, A PART OF A, AN UPDATED GUIDELINES. UM, SO THAT WHEN, WHEN THE STANDARD TREATMENT DOESN'T WORK, WE HAVE A, YOU KNOW, SECONDARY AND TERTIARY LEVEL APPROACHES FOR DEALING WITH SOME OF THESE, UH, MATERIALS. UM, YES, SHORT ANSWER IS YES. UM, WITH THE OTHER PROPERTY WHERE THIS WAS DONE, UM, THERE WAS A LOT OF TRIAL, TRIAL AND ERROR AND, UH, DOCUMENTATION WITH STAFF OF EACH TECHNIQUE. AND SO EVENTUALLY THROUGH MAYBE FIVE OR SIX DIFFERENT TREATMENTS, WE APPROVED THE COAL SLACK BECAUSE THAT SEEMED TO GET THE MOST DONE WITH THE LEAST AMOUNT OF DAMAGE. NOT TO SAY IT WAS DAMAGE FREE, BUT IT WAS SORT OF THE TRADE OFF IN TRYING TO FIND THAT, YOU KNOW, WORKABILITY. RIGHT. [01:00:01] AND SO, UM, I KNOW YOU SAID YOU TRIED THAT. UM, I THINK WE WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO TRY AGAIN AND I CAN PUT YOU IN CONTACT WITH THE CONTRACTOR THAT WAS SUCCESSFUL ON THE OTHER PROPERTY AND SEE IF THERE WERE SOME SPECIFICATIONS THAT COULD BE INCORPORATED. COREY, THAT'S THE PROPERTY ON KING'S HIGHWAY IN VOL. IT'S ON DONALD BIANCA'S. MY ADDRESS PERSON. I CAN'T REMEMBER. I THOUGHT IT WAS ON DONALDSON, THE ONE WITH THE STUCCO STONE AND THE BRICK. YEAH, IT'S, IT'S WEST KING'S IN VALLUM. I APOLOGIZE. OKAY, SO THAT WAS WHAT I WANTED TO ASK, RIGHT? THAT WAS THE HOW DO WE GET IN TOUCH WITH OHP AND WHO CAN WE CONTACT TO FIND OUT? RIGHT THERE? YEAH, RIGHT HERE. OKAY. SO BRIAN, EASIER CASE MANAGER. OKAY. AND THEN WHO CAN WE CONTACT TO GET THIS INFORMATION RIGHT? BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'D BE BETTER FOR US IF IT LOOKED THE WAY IT DID ORIGINALLY. RIGHT? AND AND WE, WE WANT TO DO THAT, WE WANT TO ACHIEVE THAT, BUT WE NEED TO DO SO AND STILL MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY. YEAH. AND YOU DID A BEAUTIFUL JOB AT THE LOCATION ON CLUB. THANK YOU. I LOOKED IT UP. THANK YOU. THAT'S GREAT. YEAH, SO HOPEFULLY YOU CAN BITTER BRING, PLACE THE HOUSE ON DONALDSON TO THE SAME BEAUTY. THAT'S OUR GOAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU GENTLEMEN. THANK Y'ALL. Y'ALL HAVE A GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU. GOOD FOLLOW THANK YOU'ALL, ACTUALLY. OKAY. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR H CTAP CASE NUMBER 2024 DASH 3 6 1 9 15 MASON. THE APPLICANT'S REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING, ALL EXISTING WINDOWS ON SITE WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS FEATURING INTERNAL FOAM BUTTONS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THEIR REQUEST BASED ON THE FINDINGS. UM, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL SALVAGE OR NEW WOOD WINDOWS THAT NEEDS TO HAVE STANDARD WINDOW STIPULATIONS. THE APPLICANT CHAD BRADSHAW IS HERE VIRTUALLY. AND MR. BRADSHAW, IF YOU WANNA INTRODUCE YOURSELF AGAIN AND, UH, WALK THE COMMISSION THROUGH YOUR REQUEST. I'M A HOLOGRAM, UM, DEJA VU. SO ANYWAY, UH, YES, UH, CHAD BRADSHAW, UM, NINE 15 MASON, UH, CARPENTER HERE. UH, YEAH, I'M RAMSEY Z GABE, NINE 15 MASON AS A WITNESS. UM, SO TO JUMP IN ON THIS ONE, UM, THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT WITH THE BOARD AND, UM, A YEAR AGO, ACTUALLY ALMOST TO THE DAY, UH, THERE WAS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, C OF A THAT WAS ISSUED. UH, PART OF THE STIPULATION WAS THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO, WELL, THE OTHER CONTRACTOR. SO WE ADOPTED THIS PROJECT FROM ANOTHER CONTRACTOR WHO DID NOT FOLLOW UNFORTUNATELY, UM, THE STIPULATIONS OF THE BOARD AND THEY PUT IN, UH, ALUMINUM WINDOWS WHEN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, UH, AS YOU GUYS STIPULATED, ALL OTHER WINDOWS ARE RETAINED AND REPAIRED IN PLACE, WHICH WERE AT THE TIME, UM, I'M GOING TO USE THE WORD ASSUME TO BE WOODEN. IN FACT, THEY WEREN'T EVEN WOODEN. UM, THEY WERE ALUMINUM WINDOWS AND WOODEN CASING. UH, SO WE'RE IN A SITUATION OF BACKTRACKING BECAUSE, UH, ALUMINUM WINDOWS WERE ALREADY PUT IN PLACE IN THE PROPERTY. AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S AN NSET REQUIREMENT. UM, AND AS YOU SEE IN THE PICTURE, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. UM, THOSE ARE GRID WINDOWS THAT THE IMAGE IS KIND OF DARK IN THAT AREA. UM, WHERE, YEAH, THERE YOU GO. UH, SO I WE'RE ASKING THE BOARD IF THERE'S SOME SORT OF, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T, THIS WORD'S NOT FAVORED IN HERE LENIENCY. UM, BUT, UH, SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE OF WHAT WE CAN DO. 'CAUSE WE'VE ALREADY PUT THE WINDOWS IN AND THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER AT HER DEFENSE, UM, A NOVICE INVESTOR HIRED A CONTRACTOR, SAID HE WAS GONNA DO WHAT HE DIDN'T DO UNFORTUNATELY. AND, UM, WE'RE BACKTRACKING. SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE STORY ON THIS ONE. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? WE DO NOT. OKAY. I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP FOR QUESTIONS STARTING TO MY LEFT PLEASE. I, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME. I DON'T EITHER. JASON, HANG ON. I'M GOING THROUGH THE CASE FILE HERE AND SURE. MAKING [01:05:01] SURE EVERYTHING. SO IS THIS A HOME YOU ACQUIRED THAT ALREADY HAD THESE, UH, WINDOWS THAT ARE OUTTA COMPLIANCE? CORRECT. AND I CAN'T TELL FROM THE PHOTOS, BUT BRIAN, WERE SOME OF THE WINDOWS, UH, FILLED IN WITH IT LOOKS LIKE IN SOME OF THE IMAGES? YEAH, THE, THAT'S HORRIBLE. THIS PROPERTIES EXPERIENCED QUITE A BIT OF, UM, MODIFICATION OVER THE YEARS. AND SO, UM, THE, UH, SO THE SPECIFIC REQUEST TODAY IS BASICALLY, OR TO PROVIDE THE, JUST THE WINDOWS FACT? YEAH, IT'S JUST THE WINDOWS. AND SO, UM, THEY ORIGINALLY FEATURED WIND WINDOWS AS THE APPLICANT HAS STATED. UM, THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL ON FILE WAS FOR WOOD WINDOW REPAIR. UM, THIS CAME TO OHP STAFF AS A VIOLATION REPORT. AND SO AT SOME POINT THE WOOD WINDOWS WERE, WERE REPLACED, UM, WITH THESE ALUMINUM WINDOWS FEATURING THE, UH, UH, INTERNAL FOAM BUTTONS. AND THE, THE BACK ADDITION THAT WE SEE ON THERE, IT, IT HAS RECEIVED HGRC APPROVAL AS OF LAST YEAR. IT DID IT, IT DID. UM, NOW IT, IT DID NOT RECEIVE APPROVAL WITH THOSE PARTICULAR WINDOWS, BUT, UM, THE MASSING ROOF FORM, UM, IS CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, APPROVAL ON FILE. UM, OBVIOUSLY AT THIS POINT IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY SIDING, BUT IT'S, IT'S A WORK IN PROGRESS. OKAY. UM, I, I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS 'CAUSE THE WINDOWS ARE STRAIGHT UP OUT OF COMPLIANCE . NO. SO I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SO WERE ALL THE WINDOWS ALREADY REPLACED OR WERE SOME OF THEM REPLACED BY YOU? UH, SOME OF THEM WERE REPLACED BY US AND THAT WAS PART OF THE PROBLEM. UM, THE STIPULATION WAS THAT TO USE THE WOODEN WINDOWS THAT WERE ALREADY THERE, BUT THERE WOODEN WINDOWS THERE, SO IT WAS BASICALLY OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. THERE WAS NO WINDOWS AT ALL WHEN WE GOT THE PROJECT, THE SHED THAT'S ON THE SIDE, WHICH YOU CAN'T SEE, WAS, UH, BROKEN INTO AND SOMEONE STOLE ALL THE MATERIALS OUT OF THERE BEFORE WE GOT THIS PROJECT. ALL THE MATERIALS BEING THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS, LUMBER. THE WOOD WINDOWS, YES MA'AM. AND THEN, AND THANK YOU. THERE WAS ONLY TWO WOOD WINDOWS BEFORE THAT THEY WERE ON THE FRONT, WHICH WE WERE GONNA REPURPOSE, UM, AS WELL. BUT THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED. THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. SO YOU DO STILL HAVE THE TWO WOOD WINDOWS THAT WERE ON THE FRONT PORCH? NO, THAT'S WHAT WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE SHED WHEN THE SHED WAS. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. AND I DON'T WANNA ASSUME, BUT THERE WAS A POLICE REPORT MADE TO THAT. UH, NO MA'AM. THERE WASN'T, UM, THE OWNER DID NOT FILE A POLICE REPORT ON THAT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I DO HAVE A QUESTION. GO AHEAD MA'AM. GIMME JUST A SECOND. SURE. I GUESS IT HAS TO DO WITH THE TIMELINE IN TERMS OF, UH, WHEN YOU WERE SIGHTED WITH THE VIOLATION AND WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS ACQUIRED, BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING THAT ALL OF THE WINDOWS WERE ALREADY TAKEN OUT, UM, ALL THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS, SO THEY WERE JUST OPEN, RIGHT? CORRECT. UM, BUT CAN YOU HELP ME OUT WITH THE TIMELINE IN TERMS OF HOW THAT OCCURRED? UH, ABSOLUTELY. SOME OF THE WINDOWS WERE ALREADY REPLACED. ABSOLUTELY. SO THE UM, PROJECT STARTED TO, UH, FROM MY KNOWLEDGE BACK IN 2022 WAS WHEN THIS PROJECT ACTUALLY STARTED, UM, TWO YEARS AGO. AND THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR STARTED WORK AND HE RECEIVED A VIOLATION. UM, AND THEY PUT A STOP WORK ORDER ON IT. AND THEN FROM THERE THE WINDOWS HAD ALREADY BEEN TAKEN OUT AND PUT IN THE STORAGE SHED TO THE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. SO LET'S SAY NOVEMBER OF 2022. IT TOOK ALMOST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR TO GET, UH, OHP APPROVAL FOR THE ADDITION BECAUSE HE WAS ALREADY STARTING THE ADDITION. THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH WITH THIS PROPERTY ALREADY, UM, WITH YOU GUYS AS WELL AS THE CITY. UM, I HAD TO WORK WITH CPS AS WELL TO GET THE POWER TURNED ON. SO I'M FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF THIS TIMELINE, BUT I'M JUST SPEAKING OF GENERALITIES. IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE. UM, IF THAT HELPS ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. [01:10:01] THANK YOU. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. ADAM, CHAIR. GO AHEAD SIR. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. I'LL SECOND IT. UM, ANY DISCUSSIONS? CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? GO AHEAD MA'AM. UM, I REALLY FEEL THAT IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT YOU'RE IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE AND THAT THE OWNER HAS TO, ALL OF YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS, BUT UM, THERE ARE STILL AVENUES TO PURSUE IN TERMS OF MAYBE FINDING SALVAGED WOOD WINDOWS, UM, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, WHICH IS IN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UM, AND LIKE I SAID, I CAN SYMPATHIZE WITH THE SITUATION, BUT YEAH, THAT TYPE OF WINDOW IS JUST NOT REALLY ACCEPTABLE TO A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, IS IT, UM, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING? ARE THERE EXCUSE, SORRY, THERE WAS NO QUESTIONS. SORRY. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS? HEARING NONE. I'LL TAKE ROLL CALL VOTE DAVIS. AYE GARCIA? AYE. REGARD? AYE. FULLERTON? AYE. P*****K. AYE. VASQUEZ. AYE. AND SVE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. MAY I GET A STIPULATION ON THE, UH, ON THE A RIGHT NOW THAT I JUST HEARD? SO DO WE HAVE TO REPLACE ALL THE WINDOWS OR JUST THE FRONT? 'CAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT $10,000 OF WORK. SO, YEAH, SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, UH, WOULD BE THE, UH, THE ENTIRETY OF THE PROPERTY, UM, AS FAR AS WINDOWS ARE CONCERNED. SO, UM, YEAH, SO IT WOULD BE ALL THE WINDOWS AND THE C OF A, IT'S STIPULATES PUBLIC VIEW. SO WHAT ARE WE CONSIDERING? PUBLIC VIEW, THAT'S ALL I'M TRYING TO CLARIFY. I, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH, UM, WITH THAT. UM, BUT IF YOU WANT TO, I MEAN, WE WILL EMAIL TOGETHER AND WE'LL WE CAN FIGURE THAT OUT. BUT AS FAR AS THE STIPULATION FOR TODAY, THAT WAS BROUGHT BEFORE THE COMMISSION, IT'S THE REPLACEMENT OF ALL THE WINDOWS. AND SO THE, THE WINDOWS ON THE PROPERTY WOULD NEED TO BE EITHER SALVAGED OR NEW WOOD WINDOWS, UH, MEETING OR RECOMMENDATION OR OUR STIPULATIONS. SIR, YOU'LL NEED TO SCHEDULE A TIME AND ANOTHER TIME SO YOU CAN SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS THAT WITH THE POLICE. THANK YOU. HAVE A GOOD DAY MEETING ADJOURN. SURE. . YOU HAVE A GOOD THANKSGIVING. THANK YOU. 10 15. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.