* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR, UM, SEPTEMBER 18TH, 2019. [Roll Call] MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ? HERE. FISH HARRIS VELAZQUEZ. HERE. MARTINEZ FLORES CARPENTER. HERE. . HERE. BOWMAN ZER. HERE. HERE. YOU'D LIKE TO DO THE, UM, TRANSLATION NOTICE? YES, GO AHEAD. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN OF THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION, AND THE VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE BOARD TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, AND THEN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARD FOR REHABILITATION. THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND ANY ADDITIONAL DESIGN GUIDELINES ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE CITIZENS TO BE HEARD SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP TO SPEAK. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF OR REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED, OTHER THAN CASE REPRESENTATIVES, SPEAKERS FOR, OR OPPOSED TO AN AGENDA ITEM WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES SPEAKING TIME PER SPEAKER. CITIZENS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD NEAR THREE MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP FOR A MAXIMUM OF NINE MINUTES. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME A SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON. SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP. APPLICANTS WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 20 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL THREE MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE READY WITHIN 10 DAYS AND WILL BE MAILED AND AVAILABLE TO BE PICKED UP IN PERSON AT THE HISTORIC COUNTER LOCATED ON THE FIRST FLOOR OF THIS BUILDING. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. [Announcements] THANK YOU. UM, WE DO HAVE A FEW ANNOUNCEMENTS. FIRST, I'M GONNA CALL UP DR. JENNY HAY. SHE'S THE, UM, MANAGER OF THE SCOUTS A PROGRAM, AND SHE'S GONNA GIVE US AN UPDATE ON THE TOBIN HILL SURVEY AND NEXT STEPS. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. UM, AS YOU'LL RECALL, UH, EARLIER THIS SUMMER, YOU HAD ASKED, UH, STAFF TO, UM, INITIATE A WINDSHIELD SURVEY OF THE TOBIN HILL COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION. SO I WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU OUR PROGRESS THUS FAR. UM, UH, I MENTIONED BEFORE THAT, UH, THERE WERE ABOUT 1300 PROPERTIES WITHIN THE SURVEY AREA. WE ARE ABOUT HALFWAY DONE, UM, WITH THE, UH, UH, PROPERTIES THAT HAVE A STANDING STRUCTURE ON THEM. UH, SO FAR JUST, UM, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE, UH, RESULTS THAT WE REPORTED TO YOU AT MY LAST UPDATE. UM, ABOUT 75% OF THOSE WE WOULD CONSIDER TO BE, UH, CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURES IF THERE WERE A HISTORIC DISTRICT IN PLACE. UM, SO, UH, THERE ARE, UM, CERTAIN, UH, PATTERNS THAT WE'RE STARTING TO SEE. UM, COMMISSIONER FETZER, YOU HAD ASKED A SPECIFIC QUESTION THAT I WANTED TO ADDRESS, UM, ABOUT HOW MANY, UH, POTENTIALLY ELIGIBLE LANDMARKS WE HAD IDENTIFIED. UM, AND, UH, SO FAR IT'S ABOUT 40. UM, I, UH, PERSONALLY WILL TELL YOU THAT I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT LOW, BUT I WANTED TO REMIND EVERYONE THAT, UH, WHAT WE ARE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS SIMPLY THE SURFACE LEVEL, RIGHT? IT'S JUST ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. UM, WE HAVE NOT DONE ANY RESEARCH TO IDENTIFY HISTORIC OR CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. UM, AND, UH, TO THAT END, I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE, UM, ARE WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY TO GATHER FEEDBACK, UM, ON, ON THE PROCESS AND PROVIDE INFORMATION TO THEM ABOUT WHAT WE FOUND SO FAR. UM, I ACTUALLY WILL BE ATTENDING THE TOBIN HILL COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION MEETING TOMORROW EVENING. UM, REALLY JUST TO DISCUSS THE PROCESS, ANSWER [00:05:01] QUESTIONS THAT THEY MAY HAVE, AND TO GET SOME INITIAL FEEDBACK ABOUT SPACES THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, OR, OR THAT MIGHT MATTER, UM, IN PARTICULAR TO THE RESIDENTS OF THAT COMMUNITY. BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, WHAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR OR WHERE WE'RE GOING FROM HERE. I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU AND, AND THE OTHERS OF THE, UH, O H P WHO HAVE STEPPED UP AND TAKEN ON THIS ADDITIONAL TASK TO YOUR REGULAR DUTIES. UM, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE, UH, COMMUNITY TO, AND THE CITY TO KNOW, UH, WHAT WE HAVE, UM, IN THIS AREA. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, SO BIG ANNOUNCEMENT, THE 11TH ANNUAL HISTORIC HOMEOWNER AFFAIRS THIS SATURDAY. UM, SO IT'S A, IT'S ONE OF OUR BIGGEST EVENTS OF THE YEAR. UM, WE HAVE ABOUT 1500 PEOPLE THAT ATTEND. UM, THIS YEAR'S FAIR IS GONNA BE, ONCE AGAIN AT THE PEARL STABLE. WE HAVE 55 EXHIBITORS, UM, AND A NUMBER OF EDUCATIONAL SESSIONS. UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S GONNA PARTICIPATE IN ONE OF THOSE SESSIONS FOR US. UM, SO IT'S A GREAT RESOURCE FOR ANYBODY WITH AN OLD HOUSE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN A STORE DISTRICT TO PARTICIPATE. UM, THERE'LL BE RESOURCES LIKE CONTRACTORS, UM, AND PRODUCTS THAT ARE, ARE CATERED TO, UM, THE OWNER OF A OLDER HOUSE. SO WE INVITED ONE TO ATTEND. UM, IT'S A FREE EVENT. UM, IT'LL BE GOING ON FROM 9:00 AM TO 2:00 PM UM, COINCIDES WITH THE FARMER'S MARKET AT THE PEARL. UM, AND THERE'S ALSO A TREE ADOPTION AND COMPOST GIVEAWAY. SO LOTS OF REASONS TO STOP BY. UM, THE NEXT HISTORIC RUN CREW IS THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 26TH. THAT'S NEXT WEEK AT, UH, LATUNA BAR AND GRILL. UM, IT'S GONNA BE A RUNNING, WALKING TOUR OF THE SOUTH TOWN AREA AND LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS THAT STARTS AT 7:00 PM UM, THERE ARE NO CITIZENS TO BE HEARD ON GENERAL ITEMS. ['A' CONSENT AGENDA] UM, SO NOW WE CAN LOOK AT THE SCREEN. UM, WE HAVE THREE ITEMS ON THE, UH, THREE A ITEMS ON CONSENT. UH, DO COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY OF THOSE ITEMS? YES, I'D LIKE TO PULL, UM, A ONE. OKAY. NOW WE CAN HAVE A MOTION FOR THE REMAINDER ON CONSENT. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF A TWO AND A THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES, YOUR HONOR, THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 1518 EAST GRAYSON AND TWO 19 EAST HOUSTON. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS MEETING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. [A-1 19-7016 Address/Description: 103 W GRAYSON ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-359 RIO District: RIO-2 Applicant: Lee Fordham/Harrison USA LLC Request: Addition, exterior modifications, landscaping/hardscaping City Council Dist.: 1] OKAY, ADAM, A ONE A C R C CASE 20 19 3 59, 1 0 3 WEST GRAYSON. UM, ITEM WAS PULLED BY COMMISSIONER FETZER FOR DISCUSSION. UM, I DO NOT BELIEVE WE HAVE AN APPLICANT PRESENT. I'M SORRY, SIR, PLEASE APPROACH THE PODIUM. HI THERE. MY NAME IS ALAN TAYLOR. I'M CHIEF DEVELOPMENT OFFICER FOR VELVET TACO, AND I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT OUR PROPOSAL. UM, THANK YOU. UM, THE REASON I PULLED IT WAS GOING THROUGH THE, UM, LIST OF DRAWINGS THAT HAD BEEN SUBMITTED. UM, I DID NOT SEE AN ELEVATION FOR THE SOUTH ELEVATION, THE WEST GRAYSON STREET, AND THE FACT THAT THIS IS A, UH, WEST GRAYSON ADDRESS. UM, WANTED TO SEE HOW Y'ALL ARE ADDRESSING ACTUALLY, UM, HOW YOU'RE INTERFACING WITH WESS GRAYSON ON THE, UH, OTHER THAN THE SIDE PLAN, WHICH SHOWS A SMALL GATE OVER ON THE, THE EAST SIDE OF THAT PROPERTY. UH, ARE YOU REALLY EMBRACING WESS GRAYSON AS THE, UH, THE ADDRESS FOR THIS PROPERTY? OUR, OUR FRONT DOOR IS GOING TO BE, I'M SORRY, OUR FRONT DOOR IS GOING TO BE ON ELMIRA. AND WHAT'S DICTATED REALLY IN LARGE PART, I'M NOT, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT, BUT, UM, BUT REALLY WHAT'S DICTATED OUR DESIGN IS THE TREE WE HAVE, EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE IS REALLY TO TRY AND PRESERVE THAT TREE. AND HONESTLY, THE TREE REALLY MAKES THE LOCATION IN MY MIND. AND SO, SO JUST, WE'RE LIMITED IN TERMS OF WHAT WE CAN DO. NOW, WE DO HAVE, UM, AND I, I DON'T SEE IT, BUT WE CAN GET YOU THE, THE ELEVATION CERTAINLY FOR WEST GRAYSON. UM, AND IT WILL CALL ATTENTION TO THE RESTAURANT, BUT THE MAIN ENTRANCE WILL BE LOCATED OFF OF, UM, EL ELMIRA. ARE YOU ACCEPTING TO THE STIPULATIONS, UH, REGARDING THE, UH, GRAFFITI ELEMENTS? WELL, THE, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS [00:10:01] BECAUSE, BECAUSE OF THE TREE TREE'S FAULT. UM, BUT BECAUSE OF REALLY OUR DESIGN, WE ARE ACTUALLY, WE HAVE TO EXPAND OUR KITCHEN. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE FEW AREAS IN WHICH, REALLY THE ONLY AREA IN WHICH WE CAN DO IT BASED ON OUR DESIGN. SO THE WALL THAT CURRENTLY HAS THE GRAFFITI IS, IS GOING AWAY EFFECTIVELY. SO THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO PRESERVE IT. THE OTHER THING TOO, AND MY ARCHITECT WAS, UH, BY THE SITE A COUPLE DAYS AGO, AND HE PHOTO SENT ME A PHOTOGRAPH. APPARENTLY THE GRAFFITI'S BEEN DEFACED BY ADDITIONAL GRAFFITI. SO AT LEAST IN HIS MIND, HE WAS TELLING ME, AND I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH I COULD SHOW YOU, BUT HE WAS TELLING ME THAT WE CAN'T EVEN PRESERVE IT. IF WE WANTED TO, WE WOULD JUST SIMPLY HAVE TO TRY AND REPLICATE IT. AND WE'RE, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT A COUPLE ITEMS FOR THE GRAFFITI FOR A COUPLE REASONS. ONE IS WE'RE OBVIOUSLY THIS IS TACO LAND, AND, BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO RESURRECT TACO LAND. WE'RE GONNA BUILD A VELVET TACO AND OPERATE VELVET TACO. AND, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE MINDFUL AND WE WANT TO PAY HOMAGE TO THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE. IT'S ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT APPEALED TO US WAS WE LOVE STEPPING INTO PLACES OF CHARACTER AND HISTORY, AND WE WANT, WE WANT TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT, BUT WE, WHAT WE DON'T WANNA DO IS CONFUSE PATRONS EITHER. 'CAUSE I THINK, AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, I THINK THE MOST RECENT ATTEMPTED REBOOT OF TACO LAND FAILED IN PART BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL PATRONS REJECTED IT FOR NOT BEING, BEING A FACSIMILE OF THE ORIGINAL. WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. WE WANT, WE'RE GOING TO OPERATE A VELVET TACO. BUT AT THE SAME TIME TOO, WE WANT TO, AS I SAID, PAY HOMAGE TO THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE. AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE A MURAL PLANNED OF RAM ON THE ELMIRA, UH, FACADE. UH, NOT ON THE GRAYSON, BUT IT JUST KIND OF FITS BETTER OVER THERE. AND WE WANNA REMIND PATRONS OF THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE. UM, BUT, BUT WE WANT TO DO IT TASTEFULLY, TACTFULLY, AND AT THE SAME TIME LET THEM KNOW THIS IS VELVET TACO, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THE DESIGN. AND SO UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE PRESERVE THAT GRAFFITI FOR ALL THE REASONS I JUST, I JUST STATED. SO, SO HAD THIS NOT BEEN PULLED TODAY, YOU WOULD'VE BEEN REQUIRED TO KEEP THAT WALL, I MEAN, BASED ON THE STIPULATIONS OF THE STAFF? CORRECT. AND YOU WERE OKAY WITH THAT WHENEVER YOU WENT TO CONSENT AGENDA? NO, NO. AND, UM, I, I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK FROM MY ARCHITECT, AND MY ARCHITECT WAS, HE'S LIKE, I'M NOT SURE WHAT WE DO, BECAUSE THAT WALL'S GOING AWAY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REMOVE IT FUNCTIONALLY FOR THE RESTAURANT. SO WE HAVE TO EXPAND THE KITCHEN OUT THAT DIRECTION. AND SO, SO WHEN HE TOLD ME ABOUT IT LAST WEEK, HE SAID, LOOK, I, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE RESPOND TO THIS BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY THAT WALL'S GOTTA GO AWAY. UH, HE TOLD ME ABOUT THIS MEETING YESTERDAY. I'M NOT SURE HOW LONG HE KNEW ABOUT IT. UM, I SAID, THANK YOU FOR THE NOTICE. SO I DROPPED EVERYTHING TO COME TO THIS MEETING BECAUSE THIS SITE'S VERY IMPORTANT TO US. IT'S, IT'S, WE, WE HOPE TO OPEN IT NEXT YEAR. AND, UM, AND I THINK WE'VE BEEN, I THINK THAT, THAT, I THINK OUR ARCHITECT HAS DONE A GREAT JOB FOR THE THINGS THAT I'VE TRIED TO CONVEY. UM, BUT NO, UNFORTUNATELY IT DOESN'T WORK. AND THERE'S, BECAUSE OF THE TREE, IT'S NOT LIKE WE CAN JUST TAKE THE KITCHEN IN ANOTHER DIRECTION. WE'RE REALLY LIMITED IN TERMS OF WHAT WE CAN DO BECAUSE OF THE TREE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. THAT CLARIFY. UM, THAT IS CORRECT. THAT PER THEIR PLANS, THAT THAT WALL WILL BE GONE AND YOU'RE STILL EXPECTING THEM TO KEEP THE GRAFFITI. UM, I'LL ANSWER THAT, EDWARD. UM, SO THE GRAFFITI ITSELF IS NOT OF HISTORIC AGE, BUT IT DOES COMMEMORATE THE HISTORY OF THE SITE, AND WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FROM A CULTURAL ASPECT. UM, SO WE'RE NOT REALLY STIPULATING THAT IT BE PRESERVED IN PLACE. WE'RE JUST STIPULATING THAT IT REMAIN IN PUBLIC VIEW. SO WE DON'T HAVE A, A PROPOSAL FROM THE APPLICANT THAT SHOWS, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT MIGHT BE RECREATED OR IF THERE'S A WAY TO REMOVE A SECTION OF WALL AND MOVE IT ON THE PROPERTY, THAT'S ANOTHER OPTION. UM, WE'RE OPEN TO, TO PROPOSALS. UM, BUT, SO IT'S KIND OF AN OPEN-ENDED STIPULATION. AND I, I APOLOGIZE, MY ARCHITECT SHOULD HAVE PROVIDED ELEVATIONS OF BOTH SIDES. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT WE ARE PUTTING RAMS, UM, BASE ON, ON THE ELMIRA FACADE. UM, IT'S NOT FINALIZED YET, BUT WE HAVE SOME PROPOSED ARTWORK FOR THAT, FOR THAT FACADE. UM, AS FAR AS TACO LAND, YOU KNOW, THEY PUT IN AT LEAST THEIR NOTES TO ME THAT WE COULD DO A VARIETY OF THINGS, THINGS TO COMMEMORATE THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE, BUT TO HAVE BIG LETTERS PAINTED TACO LAND ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING, IN MY MIND, WE'RE GONNA WIND [00:15:01] UP POTENTIALLY CONFUSING PATRONS THAT IT'S NOT TACO LAND, IT'S VELVET TACO. UM, AND AT THE SAME TIME TOO, I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT PATRONS TO THINK, ESPECIALLY ONES THAT, THAT ARE LONGTIME PATRONS OF TACO LAND. I DON'T WANNA MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE THAT THE LAST REBOOT DID. SO, UM, SO WE, WE, SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I'M, I HAVE NO, I MEAN, WE WANT TO COMMEMORATE THE HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY AS WELL. AND SO I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS WE CAN DO THAT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, PRESERVING THAT GRAFFITI ART, I DON'T THINK IS AN OPTION WITH OUR CURRENT PLAN. I AGREE WITH THE APPLICANT. I MEAN, MAYBE, I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIG, BIG, BIG WALL THAT'S THIS BIG TOGGLE IN, AND I WOULD AGREE THAT, UM, YOU COMING IN AS A NEW BUSINESS. BUT, UM, WHY DON'T WE JUST KEEP THE STIPULATION IN THERE IN A WAY THAT YOU'RE COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL WHERE YOU MAYBE RECREATING IT IN A SMALLER SCALE OR SOMEHOW, HOW ARE YOU GONNA COMMEMORATE THAT IN A, MAYBE IN GRAFFITI ELEMENTS AS WELL? WE, AND I HAVE IT ON MY PHONE, BUT I COULD SHOW YOU THE ELEVATION IF, IF THAT HELPS. BUT WHAT WE, BUT WHAT THEY ALSO SAID WAS WE COULD PUT UP SOME SORT OF MARKER OR SOME SORT OF SOMETHING THAT TALKS THROUGH THE HISTORY OF THE PLACE. UM, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO THAT AT ALL. IN FACT, WE WANT PATRONS TO KIND HISTORY HERE. I MEAN, WE COULD KEEP THE STIPULATION AND THEN YOU CAN RESUBMIT JUST FOR THAT AND THE, ALSO THE ELEVATIONS THAT WE'RE MISSING. OKAY. WE COULD TOTALLY DO THAT. IT'LL BE UP TO STAFF IF THEN WE'LL APPROVE IT. THERE'S ALSO A STIPULATION ABOUT WORKING WITH THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER AUTHORITY. UM, I ASSUME THAT'S GONNA BE AN ONGOING, UH, PROCESS FOR YOU GUYS MOVE. THAT'S CORRECT. SO NO ISSUES WITH THAT BEING A STIPULATION. UH, WE UNDERSTAND. SO, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH, UH, STIPULATION ONE BEING REPHRASED, THAT THE APPLICANT, UH, WORK WITH, UH, O H P STAFF ON SIGNAGE AND MURALS, UH, PERHAPS AS A SEPARATE APP APPLICATION, UH, MOVING FORWARD. AND THAT STIPULATION TWO REMAIN SECOND. A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR, FOR STAFF. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS COULD APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVELY? YES. PROVIDED AND MEETS THE STIPULATION MOTION A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. [A-4 19-7008 Address/Description: 1211 E Commerce HDRC Case No.: 2019-456 Applicant: Paul Kahlich/MCS Architects, LLC Request: Construction of a 4-story hotel City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM A FOUR H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 4 56. 1211 EAST COMMERCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A FOUR STORY HOTEL ON THE VACANT LOT AT 1211 EAST COMMERCE. THE LOT IS BOUNDED TO THE SOUTH BY EAST COMMERCE AND BY CENTER STREET TO THE NORTH. THE LOT IS BOUNDED TO THE WEST BY AN EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE AND TO THE EAST BY VACANT LOT. THIS LOT IS ZONED DOWNTOWN. ONLY STAFF IS FINDS THE APPLICANT HAS ADDRESSED MANY OF STAFF'S PREVIOUS COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDS APPROVAL. THERE ARE, UH, STIPULATIONS THAT GO INTO DETAIL IN, IN THE RECOMMENDATION THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. MY NAME IS PAUL COLLICK WITH THE M C S ARCHITECTS. AND DO WE WANT TO, EDWARD, DO YOU WANNA READ THIS STIPULATION THAT, AND THEN I'LL GIVE A RESPONSE? UH, YES. I THINK IT'D BE BEST IF WE WENT THROUGH, UH, EACH OF THE STIPULATIONS. UH, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS ADDRESSED OR HAS, UH, NOTED THAT THEY COMPLY WITH. UM, THOSE STIPULATIONS ARE, UH, STIPULATION THREE THERE. EXCUSE ME. STIPULATION TWO. UM, THERE HAVE BEEN WINDOWS ADDED TO THE SOUTH FACADE. AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS, UH, RENDERING. THEY ARE ALL FUNCTIONING WINDOWS AND THERE'S NO FAUX OPENINGS, UM, AS PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED, UM, STIPULATION THREE IN REGARDS TO E F I S, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED WITH THAT STIPULATION, STIPULATION TWO, OR EXCUSE ME, FOUR, IN REGARDS TO THE RECESSING OF WINDOWS TWO INCHES. THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO THAT STIPULATION. UM, I BELIEVE THAT THE APPLICANT ONLY NEEDS TO ADDRESS STIPULATIONS ONE AND FIVE. UM, THOSE HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED AT THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE STIPULATIONS SIX. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO NOTED THAT THROUGH, UH, CONSTRUCTION AND, AND FURTHER DEVELOPMENT OF CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS, UH, DETAILS WILL CONTINUE TO BE REFINED. UM, SO MR. CALLICK, DO YOU WANT TO TALK THROUGH STIPULATION ONE, UM, HOW THAT'S BEEN ADDRESSED THROUGH DESIGN REVIEW AND STIPULATION? UH, FIVE, I BELIEVE STIPULATION ONE, THE PRIMARY MASSING OF THE RETAIL COMPONENT. WE KEPT THE FACADE OF THE RETAIL PARALLEL TO THE EAST COMMERCE STREET, WHICH IS [00:20:01] ALSO PARALLEL TO THE, UH, HISTORICAL BUILDING TO THE WEST. THE FACADE HAS BEEN RAISED FROM 19 FEET TO 24 FEET, SO THAT THE TOP OF THE CORNICE IS AT 24 FEET, AND THAT'S CORRECT HEIGHT, AND THAT CREATES A CONTINUOUS BANDING PODIUM. THE CORNICE EMULATES THE CORNICE, THAT'S ON THE HISTORICAL BUILDING. THAT ONE'S 32 INCHES. THE ONE THAT WE HAVE, THE LARGER ONE IS THREE FOOT TWO INCHES MODIFIED THE, UH, PORT RICOCHET COVER TO BE 30 INCHES, REDUCING IT TO THREE INCHES. AND IT'S ALSO GONNA BE A SIMILAR SHAPE, THE, UH, AS A HISTORICAL CORNICE. MR. HALL, COULD YOU GO TO PAGE, UH, 20 IN THIS SET? I'M SORRY. I WAS TRYING TO GET THE MOST RECENT AT THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED JOHNSON TO THE, UH, ITEM NUMBER FIVE. DID ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS IN REGARDS TO STIPULATION ONE ON ITEM FIVE? ? ON OUR LAST ATTEMPTED APPROVAL, I HAD PUT A PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS MORE OF A PERSPECTIVE OF THE EXISTING HISTORICAL BUILDING AND IT REALLY DIDN'T READ WELL. AND I FINALLY CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT WE HAD APPLES AND ORANGES EVEN UNDER BEST CONDITIONS. SO I MADE APPLES AND APPLES SO THAT IT'S AN ARCHITECTURAL DRAWING LINE DRAWING SO THAT WE'RE MORE CONSISTENT IN EVALUATING THE PROPORTIONS AND THE DETAILING. I APPRECIATE, I APPRECIATE THAT THE INCLUSION OF THAT DRAWING. I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AND DOES THAT ACCURATELY REPRESENT THE, THE SPACE BETWEEN THE TWO? I SEE THE PROPERTY LINE INDICATED YES. IS IT? YES. OKAY, GREAT. YES, THANK YOU, SIR. I, I DIDN'T PUT THE ENTRY WITH THE GUARD GALE ON IT, BUT THAT'LL GO AWAY OVER TIME. IT'S CURRENTLY BEEN USED AS A HAUNTED HOUSE FOR THE LAST, I THINK, 10 YEARS. BUT WHAT I'VE DONE TO HELP WITH THE ANALYSIS, I BLEW UP THE TOP ROOF CORNICE OF THE EXISTING BUILDING, WHICH IS BEAUTIFULLY DETAILED WITH CASTSTONE. THEN I BLEW UP OUR CORNES DETAIL, WHICH HAS AN, A SIMILAR ITALIAN EIGHT FIELD WITH THE, UH, BRACKETS. AND ON THAT COMPONENT, I, I THINK WE DID WELL. THE NEXT COMPONENT WAS THE, THE HEAD AND SILL AND HEAD AND OF THE WINDOWS OF THE EXISTING BUILDING. AND WE PUT IN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN ZOOM IT, THERE YOU GO. WE HAVE A, WHAT LOOKS LIKE A CASTSTONE LENTIL ABOVE ALL THE WINDOWS THAT PROJECTS OUT ONE INCH FROM THE FACE OF THE WALL AND A SILL VERY SIMILAR IN DIMENSION, FIVE INCHES TO THE EXISTING SILL OF THE HISTORICAL BUILDING. AND IT ALSO IMITATES CASTSTONE. AND ADDITIONALLY, WE PUT IN THE FOUR INCH VERTICAL TRIM PIECES, WHICH ALSO PROJECTS ONE INCHES FROM THE MAIN BODY OF THE WALL'S GONNA BE A LIGHTER, WIDER COLOR THAN THE WALL, SO IT'LL AMPLIFY AND FRAME THE WINDOWS. THE THIRD ELEMENT WOULD BE THE CORNES ELEMENTS THAT WE SAW EARLIER IN THE PHOTOGRAPH. UH, NO GO DOWN. OH, YOU'RE GONNA LOOK AT IT. THE PICTURE. WELL, YEAH, THAT THERE'S A LOT OF IN AND OUTS, A [00:25:01] LOT OF SHADOW LINES, AND IT'S 32 INCHES. NOW IF WE GO TO OUR DRAWING, SEE THAT WE HAVE SIMILAR TREATMENT. AND ON THE BOTTOM BUBBLES YOU'LL SEE WE HAVE SIMILAR FEATURES THAT CREATE SHADOW LINES THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THE ADJACENT HISTORICAL BUILDING. THE WIDER ONE IS THREE FOOT, TWO INCHES, 38 INCHES. AND AT THE PORT RICOCHET, WE, AT THE DRIVE THROUGH, WE, WE DID HAVE A TWO FOOT NINE INCH DEPTH, AND NOW WE HAVE A TWO FOOT SIX, A 30 INCH. SO IT'S TWO INCHES SMALLER THAN HISTORICAL BUILDING CORNICE, BUT IT STILL RESPONDS TO THAT FEATURE. AND ALSO, IF YOU CAN SEE ABOVE THE WINDOWS, WE DID A SMALLER CORNICE NO, NO, ABOVE THE, UH, RETAIL WINDOWS. NOW SEE THAT LITTLE BUBBLE ON THE LEFT? SO IT HAS SIMILAR SHADOW LINES. YES, THAT'S IT. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASSING OF THE WINDOWS AND OUR STOREFRONT AND DOOR SYSTEMS, IF YOU ZOOM OUT, YOU CAN SEE THAT WE'RE SIMILAR TO THE HISTORICAL BUILDING MASSING. THOSE UNITS ARE THREE FEET EACH ON THE HISTORICAL BUILDING IN OUR UNITS ARE THREE FEET. ALSO, THE TRANSOM WINDOWS HAVE BEEN RAISED SEVEN INCHES TO ACHIEVE THE, THE 70%, UH, FENESTRATION REQUIREMENT FOR THE RETAIL GLAZING REQUIREMENT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ANSWERED? ALL MY QUESTIONS. UH, I'VE BEEN IN A COUPLE OF THE CONFERENCE CALLS WITH YOU AND ALL OF MY CONCERNS AS WELL. THANK YOU FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, COMPLYING WITH OUR REQUESTS AND, AND, UH, UH, PARTICULARLY I APPRECIATE THAT COMMERCE TREE ELEVATION SHOWING THE HISTORIC, UH, BUILDING IN CONTEXT WITH, UH, YOUR PROPOSAL. UM, I THINK IT'S, IT'S COME A LONG WAY AND IT'S, IT'S LOOKING GOOD. MY BOSS DIDN'T WANT ME TO DO IT, BUT I RAN MY OWN BUSINESS FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS AND DID A LOT OF RENOVATION. A LOT OF MEASURING. YEP. AND I KNEW IT HAD TO BE DONE WELL, AND YOU KNOW, NORMALLY WE DON'T, UH, REALLY ADVOCATE A LOT OF DIRECT REPLICATION OF HISTORIC DETAILS, BUT IF, UM, IF THERE WERE NOT SOME KIND OF, AS, AS YOU PUT THE SHADOW LINES AND, AND MATERIAL PROJECTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, UM, I THINK THE BUILDING WOULD COME OFF LOOKING REALLY CHEAP AND, AND AUTHENTIC, UH, WITHIN THE, THIS CONTEXT. AND, UM, I, I PARTICULARLY APPRECIATE HOW YOU'RE MEETING COMMERCE STREET WITH THE TWO STORY OR THE STORY AND A HALF EL ELEMENT, UH, THE CANOPY, THE WINDOWS, UH, ABOVE THE DOORS, THE, THE, UH, FAIR STORY. SO THE SCALE OF ALL THAT I THINK WORKS REALLY NICELY. AND, UH, I COMMEND YOU ON YOUR, ON YOUR WORK ON THIS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I WANTED TO ALSO COMMENT, WE PULLED THE BUILDING BACK FROM THE PROPERTY LINE FIVE FEET SO WE COULD, UH, ACHIEVE THE LANDSCAPE REQUIREMENTS ON EITHER SIDE OF THE ENTRY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE A MOTION TO SEE IF ANY OF THESE, UH, STIPULATIONS SHOULD REMAIN, BUT I THINK THEY'VE BEEN ADDRESSED AT THIS POINT. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL BASED UPON THE, UH, THE DOCUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED HERE TODAY. I'LL SECOND MOTION AND SECOND FOR APPROVAL. ANY DISCUSSION FAVOR? SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSE THE SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU. EDWARD HALL, [A-5 19-7094 Address/Description: 915 S Laredo HDRC Case No.: 2019-541 RIO District: RIO-7D Applicant: Mitsuko Ramos Request: Removal of the RIO-7D zoning overlay City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM 85 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 4 51 9 15 SOUTH LAREDO. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO REMOVE THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY SEVEN D OVERLAY FROM AN 813 SQUARE FOOT SECTION OF THE LOT, LOCATED AT NINE 15 SOUTH LAREDO ADJACENT TO INTERSTATE HIGHWAY 35. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO REMOVE THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY TO ALLOW FOR THE INSTALLATION OF A POLLAN SIGN TO ADVERTISE TO IH 35 STAFF. DOES NOT RECOMMEND REMOVAL OF THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY SEVEN D FROM THE NOTED 813 SQUARE FOOT PORTION OF THE SLIDE. STAFF. STAFF FINDS THAT THE REMOVAL OF THIS OVERLAY AND THE SUBSEQUENT INSTALLATION, A POLE POLLAN SIGN, WOULD BE INCONSISTENT WITH THE [00:30:01] PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ZONING ORDINANCES AND WOULD UNDERMINE THE OBJECTIVES OF RIO 70 ZONING. WE CAN HAVE THE APPLICANT UP, WE ALSO HAVE A SYSTEM TO BE HEARD LATER ON. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS MITSUKO RAMOS WITH GOVERNMENT RELATIONS GROUP OF TEXAS. MY CLIENT IS 9 0 1 LAREDO PARTNERS, L L C, OWNED BY DR. SHEF, ROBERT SHEF. UM, I ALSO HAVE HERE MARCELLO MARTINEZ WHO HELPED US PREPARE THE EXHIBITS FOR THE, UM, PROPOSED SIGN. UM, I PUT A LITTLE SUMMARY TOGETHER, UM, ABOUT DR. SHEF JUST TO REMIND H D R C, THAT HE'S NOT A DEVELOPER, HE'S NOT IN THE HABIT OF DEVELOPING LARGE PIECES OF PROPERTY. HE'S A DOCTOR. UM, HE'S BEEN OPERATING IN TEXAS IN SAN ANTONIO AND SURROUNDING AREAS FOR, UM, A LITTLE OVER 20 YEARS. HE IS THE FIRST, UM, WENT TO INTRODUCE HOME HEALTH, UH, HOME DIALYSIS CARE IN SAN ANTONIO, AND ALSO OFFERS, UH, RESEARCH AND NEW TECHNOLOGY IN SAN ANTONIO. SO THIS PROPOSED BUILDING IS A MEDICAL BUILDING THAT WILL NOT ONLY OFFER MEDICAL SERVICES, BUT IT ALSO WILL LAUNCH NEW INNOVATIVE TECHNOLOGY IN THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY. THAT'S GONNA BE THE FIRST OF ITS KIND IN TEXAS. UH, WE HAVE MET WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT AND THEY'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE NEW, NEW TECHNOLOGY THAT HE'LL BE BRINGING TO THIS FACILITY. IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE FIRST FLOOR IS, UM, GOING TO INCLUDE AN ART GALLERY TYPE OF, UH, LOBBY AREA WHERE THE PUBLIC, NOT JUST UM, PATIENTS, BUT ANYONE WHO WANTS TO COME IN TO LEARN ABOUT HEALTHCARE, THE KIDNEY, UM, HEART CAN DO SO. AND THERE'S GONNA BE AN INTERACTIVE AREA FOR CHILDREN AND ADULTS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HEALTHCARE. SO HIS, UM, APPROACH TO THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT IS TO, UM, EDUCATE THE COMMUNITY TO BE PROACTIVE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, STAY HEALTHY. UM, THE PURPOSE OF COMING HERE TODAY IS TO REQUEST HT C'S RECOMMENDATION ON A ZONING CASE. UM, BEFORE I MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT, I WANNA JUST TO PUT UP A FEW, UH, U D C REGULATIONS HERE. UH, CHAPTER 28, THE SIGN ORDINANCE, UM, NORMALLY WOULD ALLOW A, AN ON-PREMISE POLE SIGN NEAR THE EXPRESSWAY THAT WOULD NOT BE HIGHER THAN 50 FEET. AND THE MAXIMUM SIGN FACE IS 375, UH, SQUARE FEET. THE RIO WAS APPLIED AFTER, UM, MY CLIENT HAD DONE HIS DUE DILIGENCE TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY, UM, BEFORE THE RIO WAS APPLIED. HE HAD DONE EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON THE PROPERTY, MET HIS TEAM, MET WITH CITY STAFF, AS WELL AS, UM, H D R C OR THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION STAFF, WHO STATED AT THE TIME THAT THE SIGN WOULD BE PERMITTED. OF COURSE. UM, BY THE TIME HE PURCHASED THE PROPERTY, THE RIO HAD BEEN APPLIED TO THE LOT AND HE UNKNOWINGLY HAD PURCHASED THE PROPERTY, NOT REALIZING THAT THE RIO WOULD THEN RESTRICT THE ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE THAT HE HAD ALREADY MET WITH, UM, CITY STAFF ON AS WELL AS C P S ENERGY. UM, THE RIO STATES THAT, UH, WHEN H D R C OR THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICERS REVIEWING CERTAIN SIGNAGE, UM, THAT IT SHOULD RESPECT AND RESPOND TO THE ENVIRONMENT AND LANDMARK OR DISTRICT CHARACTER IN, IN WHICH IT'S GOING TO CONSTRUCTED. THE SIGNS SHOULD RESPECT AND RESPOND TO THE, THE RIO DISTRICT'S CHARACTER AND THE HISTORIC RIVERWALK, AND THE CONTENT OF THE MESSAGING SHALL PERTAIN TO THE BUSINESS THAT'S LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY. UM, MY CLIENT RESPECTS THESE GUIDELINES, AND I WOULD LIKE THE H D R C TO, UM, KEEP THIS IN MIND AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS PRESENTATION. UH, WE LOOKED INTO THE HARDSHIP PORTION OF RIO SEVEN TO SEE IF THERE WAS A WAY TO GET A VARIANCE, UH, SINCE HE HAD ALREADY STARTED THE PROCESS OF, UM, HAVING THE SIGN DESIGNED FOR THIS PREMISES. UH, AND I SPOKE WITH THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY, SUSAN GWEN, AND IT WAS DETERMINED THAT THERE IS NO VARIANCE THAT'S ALLOWED UNDER THIS CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE. SO THE ONLY WAY TO ALLOW THE ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE WOULD BE TO REQUEST, UH, REMOVAL OF THE RIO SEVEN JUST FROM THAT SMALL PORTION OF THE PROPERTY TO ALLOW THE ON-PREMISE SIGN. THIS IS THE, UH, AERIAL VIEW OF THE LOT, THE VACANT LOT THAT IS ABUTTING IH 35. IT'S CURRENTLY IN A BLIGHTED AREA. I HAD TRAVELED DOWN GUADALUPE A FEW TIMES AND I DID NOTICE SOME, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE KIND OF HANGING AROUND THERE. THAT'S WOULD PROBABLY LEAVE ONCE THAT AREA IS IS DEVELOPED. IT'S 0.907 ACRES, UM, WITHIN TS NUMBER 30. IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED C THREE [00:35:01] NA RIO SEVEN, AND IT'S ON THE CORNER OF GUADALUPE AND SOUTH LAREDO. THIS IS, UH, PHOTOGRAPHS OF SURROUNDING PROPERTIES NEARBY. UM, YOU CAN SEE, UH, THE VACANT PROPERTY THERE ON THE LEFT AND THE, THESE ARE THE STRUCTURES ON, ON EACH CORNER. THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH I TOOK JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, UM, OFF OF SOUTH ALAMO, SO IT'S JUST DOWN THE STREET. UM, YOU CAN SEE LOOKING NORTH ON 35, THE EXISTING SIGNAGE THAT IS CURRENTLY THERE, THE LARGEST ONE ONE IS A BILLBOARD. I WANTED TO STRESS THAT WE ARE NOT REQUESTING A BILLBOARD. UM, THIS IS AN ON-PREMISE SIGN THAT WOULD ONLY, UH, ADVERTISE FOR THE BUSINESS THAT'S GOING TO BE OPERATING ON THE LOT, AS WELL AS BEING USED AS A WAYFINDING TOOL DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE PROPERTY IS ABUTTING THE HIGHWAY, WHICH LIMITS THE VISIBILITY. HERE'S ANOTHER CLOSEUP OF SOME EXISTING SIGNAGE THAT'S ALONG 35. IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT NORTH OF, OF THE SITE. UM, THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE LEFT SHOWS LUCY'S DOGGY DAYCARE ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE, AND THE STRUCTURE THAT MY CLIENT IS CURRENTLY DEVELOPING IS JUST NORTH OF THAT. SO I HAVE LIKE A LITTLE ARROW JUST POINTING TO WHERE WE ARE PROPOSING THE SIGN. THIS IS THE, UM, EXHIBIT SHOWING WHERE THE RIO SEVEN IS APPLIED. UM, I WANTED TO JUST MAKE A POINT THAT MY CLIENT'S PROPERTY IS THE ONLY ONE ALONG IH 35 THAT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO INSTALL A ON-PREMISE SIGN FOR HIS BUSINESS. UM, IF YOU LOOK TO THE LEFT OF THE BORDER ALONG THE EXPRESSWAY, I BELIEVE THAT'S THE HISTORIC MARKET SQUARE THAT WAS EXCLUDED FROM THE RIO BOUNDARIES. SO THEY'RE STILL ALLOWED TO PUT UP, UM, ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE ALONG THE EXPRESSWAY. AND SO I DON'T THINK THE INTENT WAS TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST, UH, THE PROPERTY OR MY CLIENT. BUT, UM, AS A SIDE EFFECT, HE IS THE ONLY LOT IN THAT AREA WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE ANY SORT OF SIGNAGE THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE FROM THE EXPRESSWAY. MY CLIENT WENT TO H D R C IN 2018 TO CONSIDER THE, UM, DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR THE STRUCTURE, THE LANDSCAPING, THE PARKING LOT. UH, THE SIGNS WERE NOT CONSIDERED AT THAT TIME, BUT THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED. I INSERTED THAT HIGHLIGHTED AREA RECENTLY JUST TO SHOW WHERE THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE WOULD BE. THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS CONSIDERED IN 2018. UM, THE EXPRESSWAY IS JUST, YOU KNOW, ABOVE THAT LITTLE AREA, AND IT WOULD BE LOCATED BETWEEN THE BUILDING AND THE EXPRESSWAY TO WHERE IT WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE FROM THE SAN PEDRO CREEK OR FROM THE SURROUNDING AREAS. THIS IS A EXHIBIT OF THE PLAT ON THE LEFT AND THE EXHIBIT ON THE RIGHT SHOWS THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF THE SMALL PORTION OF PROPERTY THAT'S SUBJECT TO THE REZONING. UM, IT IS APPROXIMATELY 813.33 SQUARE FEET. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLAT, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S ALREADY A 14 FOOT, UH, EASEMENT THAT CANNOT BE CONSTRUCTED UPON. SO THE ACTUAL POLE, UH, WOULD BE EAST OF THAT AREA. WE DID INCLUDE THE EASEMENT AS PART OF THE REZONING JUST BECAUSE PART OF THE SIGN WILL BE IN, IN THE AIR RIGHTS, IF YOU WILL. BUT REALLY ABOUT 50% OF IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO, UH, WHERE THE CONSTRUCTION OF, OF WHERE THE SIGN WOULD BE. THIS IS A CLOSEUP AREA TO SHOW THE EASEMENT AND WHERE THE POLE WOULD BE CONSTRUCTED. AND, UM, ORIGINALLY IT WAS A LARGER, UH, SIGN FACE AREA, BUT WE DID REDUCE THAT AFTER, UH, MEETING WITH H DRCS ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE TO LIMIT THE, UH, SIGN FACE TO 197 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS, UM, THE SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE AS THE LUCY'S DOGGY DAYCARE SIGNAGE. HOWEVER, UM, IF WE CAN REDUCE THAT FURTHER, IF WE COULD STILL MEET THE GOAL, THEN WE'LL DO THAT AS WELL. THIS IS THE ORIGINAL EXHIBIT THAT WAS, UM, REVIEWED AT THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING. UM, I HAD CROSSED OUT THERE, NORMALLY IT'S, I THINK ORIGINALLY SAID 29.5, UH, FEET WIDE, BUT THAT WOULD BE REDUCED BY, UH, 10 FEET. SO IT'D BE SMALLER THAN WHAT'S SHOWN. UM, WE ALSO WILL NOT HAVE A WHITE BACKGROUND. WE WILL, UH, HAVE THE BACKGROUND THAT WILL NOT BE AS BRIGHT AND UH, THIS WOULD BE LIMITED TO JUST ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE. ONCE AGAIN, YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PHOTOGRAPHS, UM, ON THE LEFT, YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S LIKE THAT STRUCTURE WITH LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF YELLOW ON IT. THAT IS THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE TO DATE IT'S CURRENTLY BEING CONSTRUCTED. UM, THE PROBLEM WITH PROPOSED SIGNAGE [00:40:01] ON THE STRUCTURE IS THAT EVEN IF WE HAVE, UH, SIGNAGE ON THE STRUCTURE, IT'S NOT GONNA BE VISI VISIBLE TO PASSENGERS OR TO DRIVERS DRIVING ON THE EXPRESSWAY. SO WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND THE BUILDING, UM, WHEN THERE ARE CARS, YOU KNOW, GOING BACK AND FORTH, IT'S IT, THE VIEW WILL STILL BE OBSTRUCTED. UM, MY ASSISTANT WHO TOOK THESE PHOTOS WHILE I WAS DRIVING, UM, WE HAD TO GO BACK AND FORTH SEVERAL TIMES JUST TO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE HAD VERY LITTLE OR A FEW CARS THERE THAT WOULD OBSTRUCT THE VIEW. BUT I WANTED TO SHOW YOU AT LEAST A, UM, SO YOU COULD SEE THAT TRUCK IS, IS COVERING THE VIEW. AND WHEN THERE ARE A LOT MORE CARS ON THE, UM, EXPRESSWAY, IT MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE THE, THE STRUCTURE. THIS IS A RENDERING OF THE STRUCTURE THAT WENT TO H D R C IN 2018 THAT WAS APPROVED. UM, I KIND OF POINTED TO AN AREA WHERE THE SIGN WOULD BE, OBVIOUSLY THE SIGN'S NOT THERE 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T SEE IT. UM, IT, AGAIN, IT'S GONNA BE BETWEEN THE STRUCTURE AND THE EXPRESSWAY. AND THIS IS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF GUADALUPE AND SOUTH LAREDO. THIS PHOTO WAS TAKEN ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, AND THE IMAGE THERE, UM, WAS SELF-IMPOSED AS AN EXAMPLE AS TO WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IF YOU'RE ON SOUTH LAREDO LOOKING TO THE LEFT. THE PURPOSE OF THE SIGN IS FOR PASSENGERS OR DRIVERS ON THE EXPRESSWAY TO SEE THE, UH, SIGN FACE, UH, AS A WAYFINDING TOOL SO THAT THEY WILL KNOW TO GET OFF THE NEXT EXIT AND TURN AROUND. UM, SO WHEN YOU'RE WALKING ON SOUTH LAREDO, UH, THE PURPOSE IS NOT TO SEE LIKE A SIGN FACE TO ADVERTISE TO PEDESTRIANS. THIS IS ANOTHER RENDERING, AND I, AGAIN, POINTED TO AN AREA WHERE THE SIGNS BEING PROPOSED, WHICH IS NEAR THAT, THAT TREE. UM, THERE'S NOT A TREE THAT IT CURRENTLY EXISTS THERE, BUT JUST AS A REFERENCE, THIS IS AN AERIAL VIEW JUST TO SHOW THE DISTANCE BETWEEN SAN PEDRO CREEK AND THE PROPOSED SIGN. SO YOU CAN SEE SAN PEDRO CREEK AT THE, UM, BOTTOM PART OF THE, UM, PHOTOGRAPH. AND THE SIGN IS LOCATED WHERE THAT LITTLE STAR IS. UM, I WENT DOWN THERE AND YOU COULD NOT SEE, UH, THE AREA WHERE THE SIGN IS GONNA BE. I'LL SHOW YOU A PICTURE HERE IN A SECOND. SO ON THE LEFT, I'M STANDING IN FRONT OF SAN PEDRO CREEK ON GUADALUPE, AND IF YOU LOOK TO THE FAR LEFT, UM, YOU CAN SEE MAYBE A LITTLE TIPPY TOP OF THE STRUCTURE THAT'S BEING, UH, CONSTRUCTED, BUT THE SIGN WOULD BE, UH, NOT VISIBLE AT ALL FROM ANYONE WHO'S VISITING SAN PEDRO CREEK. UM, THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE IS A PHOTO I TOOK THE OTHER DAY, UM, OFF OF SOUTH ALAMO STREET. SO IT'S JUST DOWN THE STREET. UM, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THAT BILLBOARD IS ON THE LEFT AND THE STRUCTURE IS CURRENTLY NOT VISIBLE FROM THIS VIEW. THE SIGN WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE AS WELL. SO ANYONE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PURPOSE OF THE RIO, IN MY OPINION, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, IS TO PROTECT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE AESTHETICS AND THE VIEW FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA BE VISITING THE NEWLY DEVELOPED SAN PEDRO CREEK AREA. AND WE CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANT TO PROPOSE SOMETHING THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, UM, DISRESPECT THAT GOAL. THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH I TOOK FROM THE CORNER OF LAREDO STREET AND GUADALUPE ON THE LEFT. AND AGAIN, THE SIGN WHERE IT'S GONNA BE, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE IT BECAUSE THE, THE STRUCTURE IS BLOCKING THE VIEW. AND IF YOU WALK DOWN GUADALUPE STREET AND YOU'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT, YOU STILL CAN'T SEE THE SIGN WHERE IT'S BEING PROPOSED. YOU'D HAVE TO LITERALLY BE RIGHT GOING UNDER THE HIGHWAY AND LOOKING TO YOUR LEFT TO SEE THE SIGN. SO THIS IS, UM, A LITTLE SUMMARY OF MEETINGS THAT WE HAVE HELD TO GET INPUT AND, UM, SEEK SOME GUIDANCE. UM, WHEN MY CLIENT HAD CURRENTLY, OR HAD PREVIOUSLY, UH, LOOKED AT THE PROPERTY TO PURCHASE IT, UH, IT WAS BEFORE, UH, THE CITY STARTED CONSIDERING THE RIO. THIS WAS IN 2016. UM, THE, THE PROCESS TOOK A WHILE. HE FINALLY PURCHASED THE PROPERTY IN SEPTEMBER OF 2017. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THE, THE INTENT WHEN HE BOUGHT IT WAS TO HAVE A PROPERTY WHERE HE COULD PUT UP A, A PULSE SIGN TO AT LEAST MAKE THIS SITE VISIBLE. WE DID MEET WITH THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE. UH, THEY SAID THAT THEY HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE SIGN. UM, THEY WERE NOT GONNA OPPOSE IT. UH, THEY DO KNOW WE'RE GOING TO ZONING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL. UM, THEY DIDN'T FEEL LIKE WE WERE BEING DISRESPECTFUL TO THE RIO OR TO THE AREA. UM, THEIR REQUIREMENT WAS THEY WANTED US TO, UM, HAVE A SIGN FACE THAT WOULD NOT EXCEED 295 SQUARE FEET. BUT AGAIN, WE ARE GONNA GO DOWN TO, UH, 1 97. UH, WE ALSO MET WITH, UH, AGAIN, UH, H D R C ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW MEMBERS, AND WE RECEIVED SOME INPUT THAT THE SIGN SHOULD NOT EXCEED [00:45:01] THE SIZE OF LUCY'S DOGGY DAYCARE SIGN. WE ACTUALLY THINK WE MIGHT EVEN BE ABLE TO GO A LITTLE BIT SMALLER. UM, AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS, UH, LUCY'S DOGGY DAYCARE SIGN IS, IS RIGHT THERE AGAINST THE HIGHWAY. AND THE SIGN THAT WE WOULD BE PLACING WOULD BE JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER OUT FROM THE HIGHWAY. SO IT'LL BE A LITTLE BIT, UM, EASIER TO SEE. THIS IS A, AN EXHIBIT THAT MARCELLA PUT TOGETHER. UM, THIS SHOWS THE DIMENSIONS. I KNOW THAT, UM, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE REQUESTED THAT WE HAVE AN EXHIBIT THAT SHOWS A LITTLE BIT MORE SPECIFIC INFORMATION. THIS WOULD BE LIKE THE LARGEST SIZE THAT WE WOULD GO WITH IF WE HAD TO. UM, THE EXPRESSWAY OVERPASS HEIGHT IS APPROXIMATELY 32 FEET HIGH. AND SO IN ORDER FOR THE SIGN TO BE VISIBLE, THE POLE WOULD, UM, HAVE TO BE APPROXIMATELY 33 FEET HIGH. AND WE'RE PROPOSING A 10 FOOT HIGH BY 19.7 FOOT WIDE, UM, SIGN FACE. SO AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE 197 SQUARE FEET. UM, AGAIN, WE COULD REDUCE THAT IF, IF WE CAN STILL MEET THE GOAL. AND, UH, THE BACKGROUND WOULD NOT BE WIDE. IT WOULD BE, UH, SOMETHING THAT WOULD NEED TO BE COME BACK FOR APPROVAL. UM, WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING DIGITAL IMAGES, WHICH WE DISCUSSED AT THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETINGS. UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE REQUEST THERE AGAIN, WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE BACKGROUND WOULD NOT BE BRIGHT OR WHITE. AND, UM, WE HAD DETERMINED THAT IF WE HAD THE, UH, IMAGES CHANGE EVERY 15 SECONDS, THAT WOULD GIVE CARS ENOUGH TIME TO DRIVE BY WITHOUT IT ACTUALLY CHANGING AND BEING A DISTRACTION. AND AGAIN, AS FAR AS THE IMAGES ARE CONCERNED, UM, THIS HEARING IS JUST TO REQUEST A RECOMMENDATION. IF I'M NOT, IF I'M NOT, UM, MISUNDERSTANDING, EDWARD IS TO ASK FOR A RECOMMENDATION, UM, FOR THE ZONING CASE. AND IF THAT IS APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL, WE WOULD COME BACK FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, UM, IF NECESSARY FOR THE ACTUAL IMAGES. THIS IS SOMETHING I PUT TOGETHER. I'M NOT AN EXPERT AT SIGNAGE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SHOW YOU CONCEPTUALLY WHAT WE'RE THINKING. UM, THE TOP RIGHT, UH, IMAGE THERE IS JUST DIRECTION, YOU KNOW, NEXT EXIT TURN AROUND, THIS IS WHERE YOU GET OFF KIND OF THING. UM, THE BOTTOM IMAGE, WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE SOME IMAGES, IMAGES OF THE DOCTORS. UM, AGAIN, FINAL IMAGES WOULD BE, WOULD NEED TO BE APPROVED BY THE CITY. UH, DURING THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING, UM, WE WERE ALSO ASKED TO PLACE RESTRICTIONS ON THAT SMALL PORTION OF PROPERTY. UM, WE HAVE A CONCERN AS WELL AS WE KNOW THAT SOME OTHER, UH, STAFF MEMBERS HAVE A CONCERN THAT, UM, IF THE RIO IS REMOVED EVEN FROM AN 800 HUNDRED AND 13 SQUARE FOOT PIECE OF PROPERTY, THAT IF SOMEONE WERE TO BUY THE PROPERTY IN THE FUTURE AND REDEVELOP IT, WE DIDN'T WANNA LEAVE THAT AREA VULNERABLE. SO, UH, WE HAVE A PROPOSED SIGN EASEMENT THAT RESTRICTS THE PROPERTY FOR JUST THE SIGNAGE, UH, ON-PREMISE SIGNAGE ONLY. AND IF THE SIGN IS NO LONGER USED, THEN THE, UM, UH, THE RIO SEVEN WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, REAPPLIED OR, OR THE, UM, FUTURE REDEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE TO, UH, COMPLY WITH THE, WITH THE REGULATIONS, UM, OF THE RIO SEVEN AND OTHER U D C REGULATIONS. SO WE, AND IF WE, IF WE CAN DO ANYTHING MORE TO, UH, MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THIS AREA WOULD NOT BE, UM, TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IN THE FUTURE, WE WILL DO WHATEVER'S NECESSARY. I JUST WANTED TO REMIND, UH, H D R C OF THE HARDSHIPS THAT THE PROPERTY FACES. UM, IT, IT ABUTS THE EXPRESSWAY, WHICH LIMITS THE VISIBILITY OF THE STRUCTURE FROM THE STREET LEVEL. UM, ANY SIGNAGE ON THE STRUCTURE WOULD NOT BE VISIBLE TO, TO DRIVERS ON THE EXPRESSWAY, MOSTLY DUE TO CARS GOING BACK AND FORTH. UM, THE SIGNAGE WOULD JUST MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO IDENTIFY THE BUILDING AND, AND GET OFF THE EXPRESSWAY WHERE THEY NEED TO. UM, ALSO WHEN THEY THOUGHT AS HD C'S APPROVAL IN 2018, THERE IS A REQUIREMENT OR, UM, IT'S THE GUIDELINES TO HAVE PARKING IN THE REAR, NOT TO BE IN ON THE CORNER IN THE FRONT. UM, SINCE THIS FACILITY WILL BE TREATING A LOT OF, UM, DISABLED PATIENTS, IT'S IMPORTANT TO ALLOW THEM AN AREA TO BE DROPPED OFF. UM, SO THE ACTUAL FRONT ENTRANCE OF THE BUILDING IS FACING THE EXPRESSWAY, WHICH IS VERY ODD. NORMALLY YOU HAVE THE ENTRYWAY FACING THE, THE MAIN STREET AND THE FRONT DOOR IS ACTUALLY GONNA BE NOW FACING THE EXPRESSWAY. SO THAT FURTHER, UH, CAUSES A HARDSHIP FOR, FOR THE BUSINESS. AND AGAIN, UM, THIS LOT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT WOULD BE PROHIBITED FROM HAVING AN ON-PREMISE SIGN INSTALLED ALONG THE EXPRESSWAY. SO, AS I FIRST EXPLAINED IN [00:50:01] THE BEGINNING, UM, THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT THAT WILL ACTUALLY BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY. UM, WE ARE ALSO PROPOSING PUBLIC ART THAT WILL COME BACK TO H D R C IN THE NEAR FUTURE. UH, WE DO NOT BELIEVE, IT'S MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION THAT WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING IS NOT CONTRARY TO THE INTENT OF THE RIO SEVEN AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING AREA AND THE SURROUNDING, UM, BUSINESSES ALONG THE EXPRESSWAY. SO WE RESPECTFULLY, UH, REQUEST YOUR RECOMMENDATION FOR THE ZONING CASE. THANK YOU. UH, WE DO HAVE A CI CITIZEN TO BE HEARD AND THEN WE'LL CALL YOU BACK UP FOR QUESTIONS. THAT'S VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE 91 18 FAIRLAND, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONCURS WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS TO DENY REMOVAL OF THE RIO OVERLAY DESIGNATION FROM 813 SQUARE FEET OF NINE 15 SOUTH LAREDO. THIS REQUEST TO CHANGE IN ORDER TO ERECT A POLE SIGN IS CONTRARY TO THE OBJECTIVES OF THE RIO ZONING AND WOULD SET A BAD PRECEDENT FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF ITS DESIGNATED ZONING, WHICH PROHIBITS BOTH POLE MOUNTED CABINET SIGNS AND DIGITAL SIGNS. IN ADDITION, THE PROPOSED SIGN EXCEEDS THE SPECIFIED SQUARE FOOTAGE LIMITS. WE ASK THAT THE COMMISSION DENY THE REQUEST TO REMOVE THE RIO DESIGNATION FROM THE SPECIFIED PORTION OF NINE 15 SOUTH LAREDO. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, PATTY ZION'S PRESIDENT, WE HAD A REBRANDING YESTERDAY, SO NOW WE HAVE TO CHANGE EVERYTHING TO THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? YES. COULD YOU, UH, GO TO THE GRAPHIC THAT SHOWED THE EXTENTS OF THE RIO SEVEN AND, UM, WHERE THE PROPERTIES, UH, WERE GRANTED FULL SIGNS? THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COULD YOU POINT TO YOUR PROPERTY IS IT'S, I THINK I KNOW WHERE IT'S AT, BUT JUST MAKE SURE THAT I'M, UH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IF 3 0 7 IS REMOVED, WHAT GUIDELINES DO THE SIGNAGE WOULD APPLY? STILL FALL UNDER THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAWELL. IS IT COMMON FOR ZONING TO BE CHANGED FOR SPEC FOR JUST A SMALL PORTION OF A LOT? UM, IT IS POSSIBLE. UM, IT'S AN OPTION. UM, WE DON'T SEE THESE REQUESTS REMOVE AND OVERLAY THAT FREQUENTLY. UM, BUT WE HAVE HAD IT, UM, MOST RECENTLY TO, UM, AMEND THE BOUNDARIES OF, OF RIO DISTRICT TO ALLOW FOR ADDITIONAL HEIGHT. AND SO THE COMMISSION REVIEWED A SIMILAR REQUEST JUST LAST YEAR. UM, SO THIS IS REMOVAL OF THE OVERLAY COMPLETELY. UM, IN ORDER TO, UH, UH, GET AROUND THE PROHIBITION LEAGUE, WHICH WERE POLE SIGNS IN RIO, UH, MR. HALL, COULD YOU MOVE THE HAND UP? IT'S ACTUALLY CLOSER IF, IF YOU SEE GUADALUPE STREET RIGHT THERE. YEAH, IT'S THE PROPERTY'S RIGHT IN THAT, THAT AREA. THANK YOU. THE REASON WHY I BRING THAT UP IS JUST TO SHOW THAT IT IS CONTIGUOUS TO THE AREA THAT, UM, IS PERMITTED, UH, HAVE THE POLE SIGNS. MAY I COMMENT ON THAT OR MAY I CLARIFY MY STATEMENT? UM, I GUESS WHAT MY POINT WAS IS THAT THERE ARE CURRENTLY ALREADY SIGNS ALONG THOSE PROPERTIES, SO IF THOSE PROPERTIES WANTED TO RE REFACE THEIR SIGN, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE ABLE TO STILL ADVERTISE FOR THEIR BUSINESS. UM, MY CLIENT'S LOT WAS VACANT AND AS HE WAS INQUIRING ABOUT DEVELOPING THE LOT, THAT'S WHEN, YOU KNOW, I GUESS THE CITY WAS RECON OR CONSIDERING THE RIO SEVEN. UM, BUT ALSO I NOTICED THAT IF YOU LOOK NORTH OF THE BOUNDARY LINE, IT DOES NOT INCLUDE LIKE THE HISTORIC MARKET SQUARE. AND I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IF THE PURPOSE IS TO PROTECT THE, UM, HISTORIC LANDMARKS AND, UM, YOU KNOW, PROTECT THE VIEW OF THESE TYPE OF AREAS, UM, THAT AREA IS CONSIDERED TO BE EXCLUDED AND THEY CAN STILL ADVERTISE FOR THEIR BUSINESSES. BUT, UH, MY CLIENT'S PROPERTY IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN'T PUT UP A NEW, UH, FULL SIGN. AND, AND HIS DEVELOPMENT IS ONE OF THE, UM, IT MEETS ONE OF THE, UH, CRITERIA FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT TO [00:55:01] INCENTIVIZE THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. UM, SO THIS SITE WAS IMPORTANT TO HIM, NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S A CENTRAL LOCATION TO SHOW, UH, THE, THE SERVICES THAT HE PROVIDES, BUT TO ALSO LAUNCH THE NEW TECHNOLOGY AND SO FORTH. SO, UM, IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION, IT JUST SEEMS KIND OF CONTRADICTORY TO TRY TO INCENTIVIZE THIS TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT, BUT YET HE CAN'T ADVERTISE WHERE HIS BUSINESS IS LOCATED. DOES THAT CLARIFY THE PART OF, UH, MARKET SQUARE? WELL, MARKET SQUARE IS A LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, SO THERE WOULDN'T BE THE ABILITY TO HAVE, UM, A POLE SIGN OR ANY GROUND MOUNTED SIGN TALLER THAN SIX FEET IN HEIGHT. UH, UH, AND WHEN WAS THIS RIO SEVEN APPROVED? UM, THE, THE, UM, THE U D C AMENDMENTS WERE, UM, DRAFTED AND ADOPTED IN 2016, AND THEN THE ZONING WAS PUT IN PLACE IN EARLY 2017. YEAH, SO, UM, I JUST, UM, I MEAN THERE'S PROBABLY MORE COMMENTS, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT STAFF KIND OF HAS IT RIGHT ON THIS ONE AND, UM, I WOULD SEE HER TO, UH, FIND MORE, UM, REASONS TO REMOVE THE RIO SEVEN THERE. YEAH, I, I WOULD AGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER. I THINK THAT, UH, THE TAKING AWAY OF THIS, OF THIS OVERLAY IS, IS DIFFICULT 'CAUSE IT SETS A BAD PRECEDENT FOR, UH, PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE. AND I THINK THAT, UM, THE, THE, I GUESS THE BURDEN FOR YOU AND YOUR CLIENT WOULD BE TO KINDA SHOW THE TIMELINE OF THAT DEVELOPMENT AND TO SHOW THAT THOSE MEETINGS HAPPENED WITH THE CITY AND THAT THESE THINGS GOT APPROVED PRIOR TO THAT. I THINK THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL FOR ME. UM, 'CAUSE THE LAST THING WE WANNA DO IS BE UNFAIR TO SOMEONE WHO'S IN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. I THINK THAT THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE BASED ON WHEN THIS WAS APPROVED AND, AND KIND OF THE DEVELOPMENT TIMELINE OF THIS, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE THE MORE APPROPRIATE THING TO DO WOULD BE TO EXPLORE SIGNAGE ON THE BUILDING AND BASED ON THE, THE HEIGHT OF THE SIGNAGE THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING AND THE IMAGES THAT YOU PROVIDED, I THINK THAT PLACING THAT ABOVE THAT PARAPET AND, AND TRYING TO APPROACH IT THAT WAY MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO EXPLORE AND THEN TO BRING THAT BACK. BUT I, I, I CAN'T SUPPORT THE, THE REZONING AT THIS TIME OF THE IMAGES YOU SHOWED US INDICATED A TREE TO BE LOCATED IN THE ISLAND WHERE YOU'RE PROPOSING THE SIGN. YEAH, THAT WAS JUST A CONCEPTUAL RENDERING THAT WAS PREPARED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. UM, WE DO HAVE A PERMIT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION. AND, UH, THERE ARE AREAS, UH, THAT WILL HAVE A LANDSCAPING THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE CITY ALREADY. SO THAT WAS JUST, JUST TO SHOW WHERE THE LOCATION OF THE SIGN WOULD BE. THERE WOULDN'T BE A TREE THERE. SO THE TREE IS NOT REQUIRED TO MEET THE CITY'S LANDSCAPE ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS. WELL, UM, THE, THERE ARE GOING TO BE LANDSCAPING AND TREES, BUT THE EXACT LOCATIONS IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THAT RENDERING. THE RENDERING, THE PURPOSE OF THAT RENDERING WAS REALLY JUST TO SHOW WHAT THE STRUCTURE WOULD LOOK LIKE. EDWARD, COULD YOU PULL UP, UH, UH, 15 OF 26 PLEASE? JUST BELOW THE, THE, UH, SIGN YOU'RE SHOWING HERE THE, THE GRAY WALL THAT IS, UH, YOUR BUILDING BEING, UH, CONSTRUCTED, CORRECT? CORRECT. AND I TOOK THAT PHOTO SPECIFICALLY TO SHOW THAT, AND THAT'S A VERY SMALL COMPACT CAR. BUT AGAIN, I HAD TO GO BACK AND FORTH SEVERAL TIMES JUST TO EVEN GET A PICTURE OF THE STRUCTURE BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY VEHICLES GETTING ON THAT ARE MUCH LARGER THAT YOU CAN'T SEE THE STRUCTURE. I WOULD BE OPEN TO SEE A SIGNAGE PROPOSAL FOR THE BUILDING THAT INCLUDES A BIGGER SIGN AND MAYBE WE CAN BE MORE, UH, FLEXIBLE ON IN THAT PROPOSAL THAN ACCEPTING THIS POLE SIGN AND OR NOT ACCEPTING THE POLE SIGN MORE ACCEPTING THE REMOVAL OF RIO SEVEN. UM, I JUST WANT TO NOTE THAT RIO ALSO DISALLOWS ROOF-MOUNTED SIGNS, AND SO SOMETHING COULD BE MOUNTED ON THE BUILDING, BUT IT COULD NOT EXTEND ABOVE THE PARAPET AS WAS MENTIONED. UM, I I, I DO WANT TO JUST SAY THAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CAR THAT YOU, YOU SHOW IT, IT, UH, IS REALLY A GOOD EFFORT BECAUSE TOO OFTEN THE SIGNS LOOK LIKE THEY'RE SITTING ON THE HIGHWAY WHEN, WHEN THEY REALLY SHOULD BE A LITTLE HIGHER, EVEN IF, YOU KNOW, HEIGHT IS AN ISSUE. RIGHT. UM, UH, I'M WONDERING IF IF THE, IF THE SITUATION, UH, WERE THAT IF IT WAS NOT A POLE SIGN, BUT IT WAS A SIGN ABOVE THE BUILDING TO INCORPORATE ITSELF INTO [01:00:01] THE DESIGN, WHICH OF COURSE ASKS FOR A DIFFERENT KIND OF A VARIANCE, RIGHT? BUT THAT SEEMS THAT IT'S PART OF THE ROOF LINE THAT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THE SAME OBJECTIVE. UM, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME REMOVING THAT, UM, I THINK MAYBE THAT COMMON, UM, UH, OCCURRENCE THAT, THAT THE RIO'S TRYING TO, TO, UH, DISCOURAGE, WHICH IS THAT POLE SIGN, RIGHT. BUT, UH, IT DOES SEEM THAT IF THERE'S A SIGN ON THE BUILDING THAT IT WOULD CREATE THAT SITUATION OF NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE IT IF A CAR IS THERE OR IF, UH, OR IF, IF YOU'RE IN A LOW CAR NEXT TO THE EMBANKMENT. BUT IF THE SIGN WAS ABOVE AND, AND, AND THE, AND THE WALL LINE, UM, I I, I THINK THAT THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT MAY MAYBE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET A, UM, SUPPORT FOR ALL, ALL. ALTHOUGH I, I WOULD BE INCLINED TO SUPPORT THE THE SIGN AS IT IS BECAUSE IT'S, UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE REALLY ON THE FRINGE OF THE, OF THE DESIGNATED AREA AND, UM, YOU PROBABLY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE SAME RIGHTS AS THOSE OTHERS. I CAN TELL YOU AS WELL, UH, FROM SPENDING QUITE A BIT OF TIME IN THE AREA, THAT THE AREA'S VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS ENDEAVOR AND WITH THE LACK OF SERVICES IN THE AREA, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO KIDNEY AND ALL OF THAT, THAT THAT REALLY YOUR BUSINESS IS TO BE COMMENDED AND, AND WE HOPE MUCH, MUCH SUCCESS FOR YOUR BUSINESS. QUESTION FOR STAFF, UM, IF THE RIO OVERLAY WERE TO BE REMOVED, THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES WOULD STILL BE IN EFFECT ON THE PARCEL. CORRECT. AND THE, IN THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, UM, I THINK THAT'S CHAPTER 10 OF THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, UM, THOSE DISCOURAGED FREESTANDING SIGNS TALK ABOUT MONUMENT SIGNS AND BUILDING MOUNTED SIGNS. SO IF IT WERE RIO WAS REMOVED AND THIS WERE REVIEWED FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE DOWNTOWN SIGN GUIDE, IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY MEET THOSE EITHER, CORRECT? YEAH, TO BE HONEST, WE HAVEN'T REALLY REVIEWED THE ACTUAL SIGNAGE PROPOSAL UNDER APPLICABLE STANDARDS. LIKE WHAT THE REQUEST TODAY IS REALLY THE REMOVAL OF THE RIO. SO WE HAVEN'T MADE A RECOMMENDATION ABOUT THE ACTUAL SIGN THAT'S PROPOSED. OH, I SUPPOSE I'M ASKING BECAUSE THE PROCESS THAT'S BEING PURSUED HERE IS TO FACILITATE THE SIGN THAT'S BEING PROPOSED. SO THE CONSEQUENCE OF REMOVING THE RIO SEVEN IS THAT THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES WOULD BE LEFT. AND THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE SIMILAR IN NATURE TO THE RIO SEVEN IN MANY WAYS. THEY ARE. THERE WAS, UM, SO IF YOU RECALL, UM, LAST YEAR, UM, OUR DEPARTMENT, UH, UH, THE TRANSFER OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE HAPPENED AND IT CAME TO OUR DEPARTMENT FROM PLANNING. UM, SO PREVIOUSLY UNDER PLANNING'S, UM, ADMINISTRATION, THERE WAS A SIMILAR SIGN THAT WAS APPROVED FOR THE, FOR THE OTHER, UM, KIDNEY CENTER JUST FURTHER NORTH ON THIS ALONG OF THE INTERSTATE. UM, AND SO WE, WE DO KNOW THAT ONE WAS REVIEWED AND APPROVED UNDER THE DOWNTOWN GUIDE PREVIOUSLY BY ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT DONE A REVIEW, UM, UNDER THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE FOR WHAT'S PROPOSED. HOW ABOUT THAT? BUT I DO AGREE THAT WHEN THE OWNER BOUGHT THE BUILDING OR THE VACANT LOT AND THE PROJECT, EVEN IF, YOU KNOW, RIO SEVEN WAS PROBABLY NOT, UH, AWARE, HE WASN'T AWARE OF THAT. THE DOWNTOWN GUIDELINES WERE STILL IN PLACE BACK THEN AS WELL, RIGHT? SO I MEAN, FROM THE BEGINNING, THIS KIND OF SIGNAGE WOULD'VE REQUIRED, IT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN APPROVED. IT'S NOT ACCORDING TO THE GUIDELINES NOW, FROM, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, UH, UH, NAME IS BILL HILL WITH THE SIGN COMPANY, HAD MET WITH CITY STAFF. HE'S SUPPOSED TO SEND ME, UH, SOME EMAILS THAT HE HAD CORRESPONDED WITH OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND OTHER STAFF MEMBERS AS WELL AS C P S ENERGY TO PROVIDE ENERGY TO THE SIGN. SO I'LL GET THAT TOMORROW. I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE BIT TOO LATE, BUT, UM, HE DID SAY THAT THEY DID MEET WITH, WITH THEM AND, UM, THAT THE SIGN WOULD QUALIFY AND THAT WOULD BE APPROVED AS LONG AS IT MET THE REQUIREMENTS OF CHAPTER 28. I'M READY TO DO A MOTION. MOTION TO DENY SECOND, SECOND MOTION AND SECOND TO DENY ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSED SAY NAY. NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, AND JUST A QUICK NOTE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE. UM, I DO BELIEVE IT COULD BE APPROVED. UM, THE DIFFERENCE, THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE AND RIO IS THAT THIS TYPE OF SIGN IS PROHIBITED BY RIO. UM, SO IT'S DISCOURAGED IN THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE, BUT THERE'S NOT A PROHIBITION, SO THE COMMISSION IS ABLE TO APPROVE IF IT'S DEEMED APPROPRIATE, BUT [01:05:03] THAT'LL BE A FUTURE REQUEST [A-6 19-6956 Address/Description: 3310 SAN PEDRO AVE HDRC Case No.: 2019-474 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: George Lowery/GLA Permitting Request: Signage City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER A SIX H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 4 74 33 10 SAN PEDRO. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FREESTANDING PULSE SIGN WITH A NEW DUAL FACE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED MONUMENT SIGN. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REPLACEMENT OF THE EXISTING SIGN WITH STIPULATIONS THAT ARE OUTLINED IN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. UH, I'M JIM GRAFF WITH SECO AMERICA. UM, YOU'RE HERE FOR TACO CABANA. UH, THE SIGN WAS PROPOSED ONCE BEFORE, BUT WE HAD, UM, MADE IT THE SAME HEIGHT AND SQUARE FOOTAGE AS THE SIGN THAT'S ON THE, UH, VERY LEFT, UH, THAT WAS HIT A WHILE BACK, EXCUSE ME. AND THE SIGN'S NO LONGER THERE. UH, BUT THE SUPPORTS ARE, SO THE TWO OTHER IMAGES ARE, UH, REPLACEMENTS OF THAT SIGN THAT WAS, UH, DEMOLISHED. . I'LL NOTE, UH, STAFF'S ORIGINATION WAS FOR APPROVAL OF THE REPLACEMENT OF THE SIGN. UH, WE WERE JUST SIMPLY NOTING THAT, UH, WE FOUND, UM, A SIMPLER MASSING OF THE MONUMENT STRUCTURE TO BE APPROPRIATE. AND, UM, PER THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES, UH, FREESTANDING SIGNAGE SHOULDN'T BE TALLER THAN SIX FEET IN HEIGHT. UH, SO THAT WAS STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. UM, UH, PREVIOUSLY THIS WAS PROPOSED. UM, YOU CAN SEE THE TOTAL HEIGHT OF THE SIGN WAS APPROXIMATELY 14 FEET. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS SINCE, UH, MODIFIED THE HEIGHT OF THE BASE TO WHERE IT'S APPROXIMATELY TWO FEET TALL. UM, I'M ASSUMING IT'D BE COMPARABLE TO THE PREVIOUSLY EXISTING PLANNERS THAT WERE ON SITE. UM, THE APPLICANT IS NOTED AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF THE MONUMENT STRUCTURE, UH, OF APPROXIMATELY NINE FEET. UM, GENERALLY STAFF FINDS THE, UM, THE, THE CABINET WHILE ATYPICAL, UM, IN AN IMPROVEMENT OVER WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY ON SITE. WE'VE ALSO REDUCED THAT TO COME DOWN TO 24 SQUARE FEET, UH, VERSUS THE 72 SQUARE FEET FROM THE PREVIOUS SIGN. AND ALSO, UH, LINE OF SIGHT WAS A CONCERN. AND SO WE FLIPPED THE SIGN SO THAT THE SUPPORT, UH, THAT HOLDS THE OVERLAP IS FURTHER AWAY FROM THE INTERSECTION. SO WHEN YOU'RE APPROACHING THE INTERSECTION, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE AROUND THE, UH, STRUCTURE. I'M GONNA ASK YOU ABOUT THAT 'CAUSE THAT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT, UM, FACT. CAN YOU CONFIRM THE HEIGHT? WAS IT NINE FEET ON THE PREVIOUS ONE? ON THE, UH, THE, THE NEWEST SUBMISSION PROPOSAL? IT'S, IT'S NINE FOOT, UH, EIGHT INCHES ON THE VERY LEFT OF THE DRAWING. I MEAN, I SEE THAT SIX FEET WOULD, WOULD INTERFERE WITH THE LINE OF SIGHT. UM, IT DOES. AND ANY OF THE TRAFFIC THAT'S GOING BY THERE IN, UM, REALLY IN EITHER DIRECTION BLOCKS IT. IF WE GO UP TO SIX FEET AND THE SIGN THAT WAS DEMOLISHED IS MORE OR LESS THE SAME HEIGHT, THE NINE FEET? NO, THAT, THAT SIGN WAS, UH, 14 FEET. THE ACTUAL SIGN AREA WAS, UH, SIX FOOT BY 12 FOOT. AND THE NEW SIGN AREA IS THREE FOOT BY EIGHT FOOT ON ITSELF. AN INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CABINET, YES. BUT STAFF CALLS THE MONUMENT ELEMENT. CAN THAT BE DONE SLIMMER OR ANY WAY? I KNOW YOU'VE ALREADY WORKED ON THAT AND YOU'VE ALREADY DONE IT EVEN LESS. UH, YES. IT COULD BE TO MORE SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS EXISTING. THE, UH, WELL, THERE'S ACTUALLY A POLE INSIDE OF IT, [01:10:01] SO WE COULD GO DOWN TO PROBABLY 12 INCHES. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SHOWING. I, I THINK I'M OKAY WITH HOW IT'S PRESENTED, UH, ME PERSONALLY, AND I THINK THAT, UH, BRINGING IT DOWN SLIGHTLY IS A GOOD MOVE. AND I THINK THE, THE HEIGHT THAT YOU HAVE IT AT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. SO I THINK THAT, UH, THIS LATEST PROPOSAL, I, I THINK I CAN SUPPORT I AS WELL. DO YOU WANNA DO MOTION? UM, I, I CONCUR WITH THAT. I THINK IT'S, IT'S BEEN IMPROVED AND, AND REDUCED IN SIZE IS, IS HELPING, BUT IT DOES MAKE SENSE WITH THE TRAFFIC, THE BUSYNESS OF THE TRAFFIC THERE TO KEEP THAT, UH, TACO CABANA OVAL UP, UM, SO THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE A BETTER VIEW. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE, UH, UH, OF THE PROPOSAL AS PRESENTED TODAY WITH THE NINE FOOT, NINE FOOT EIGHT HEIGHT AND A, UH, 24 INCH, UH, WIDE VERTICAL SUPPORT ELEMENT. SECOND MOTION. AND SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [A-7 19-6960 Address/Description: 849 E COMMERCE ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-477 RIO District: RIO-3 Applicant: Ashley Schriedel/Alamo Sign Solutions Request: Signage City Council Dist.: 1] NUMBER A SEVEN H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 4 77 8 40 COMMERCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL A NUMBER OF SIGNS AND OUTDOOR ELEMENTS AT 8 49 EAST COMMERCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED SIGNS AS WELL AS OUTDOOR BRANDED ELEMENTS FOR LAND SHARK BAR AND GRILL. STAFF IS NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF A NUMBER OF THE SIGNS WHILE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THE REDUCTION IN SIZE. UM, THERE ARE SPECIFIC STIPULATIONS AND DETAILS AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS JAMES ALFARO WITH ALAMO SIGN SOLUTIONS. THERE ARE SEVERAL STIPULATION OR RECOMMENDATIONS BY STAFF, UM, ABLE TO ADDRESS THOSE. UH, YES, WE DID. WE, WE ACTUALLY WENT OUT AND JUST TOOK A LOOK AND I WANTED TO SHARE SOME PHOTOS THAT, UM, WE TOOK OF THE RIVERWALK, UM, IN AND AROUND THE AREA OF THE PROPOSED, UH, NEW BUSINESS. SO THIS PARTICULAR, UH, SIGNAGE IS DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE PROPOSED LAND SHARK BAR AND GRILL. UH, THERE'S CHILI'S WHO HAS, UM, THREE DIFFERENT PARTICULAR SIGNS, UM, REPRESENTING THEIR BUSINESS. THERE'S A HOOTERS, UM, PINE MARGARITAVILLE IS THE LARGEST ONE AND HAS SEVERAL, SO YOU CAN JUST GO THROUGH 'EM. EDWARD. UM, THERE'S THE NUMBER TWO, UH, THIRD THERE, AND THERE'S SOME SURFBOARDS THAT ARE MOUNTED ON THE WALL. THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY FACING THE RIVER WALK ITSELF, AND OF COURSE THEY HAVE A BAR AREA WITH SIGNAGE ABOVE THAT. AND THEN ALONG, UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S COMMERCE STREET. THERE IS A YARD HOUSE, WHICH HAS VERY LARGE SIGNAGE. AND THEN MARGARITAVILLE, AGAIN HAS TWO, TWO OTHER SIGNS ON THAT PART OF THE BUILDING. AND ALONG WITH THIS VERY LARGE, UM, CHAIR. SO, UM, UNDERSTANDING THE, UH, H DRCS RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE JUST ASKING FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THE, THE SAME ADVERTISING, UM, OPPORTUNITIES THAT THE OTHER BRANDS ACROSS THE RIVER TO WALK HAVE. UH, WITH REGARDS TO SIGNAGE, ESPECIALLY THE MARGARITAVILLE RESTAURANT, THEY, THEY HAVE, I THINK LIKE EIGHT SIGNS EVEN MORE IF YOU ADD THE SURFBOARDS. UM, OUR CUSTOMER IS ASKING FOR, UM, MOST IMPORTANTLY THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE THE LAND SHARK BAR AND GRILL UNDERNEATH THE CANOPY PORTION, UM, [01:15:01] OF THE MALL. YOU CAN GO TO THAT ONE. SO YOU CAN SEE, UM, WHERE IT SAYS BAR AND GRILL. AND JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT SAYS THE LAND SHARK. UM, WE DID SHOW ANOTHER DRAWING THAT REDUCED THE SIGNAGE, UH, BY A FEW FEET, UH, TO ACCOMMODATE, UH, THE COMMISSION. UM, BUT WE ARE REALLY WOULD LIKE TO, UH, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, HAVE APPROVE APPROVAL OF THE LAND SHARK, UH, SURFBOARD THAT WOULD BE MOUNTED ON ALONG THE PATIO STRUCTURE. UM, THE REASON WE'RE PRESENTING THAT IS BECAUSE THE LETTERING ON THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING IS KIND OF HARD TO SEE BECAUSE IT SITS UNDERNEATH THAT CANOPY. SO IT'S, THERE'S NOT REALLY A WHOLE LOT OF EXPOSURE THERE. UM, BUT WITH THE PATIO FEATURE THAT'S, THAT'S SHOWN, UH, IT, IT DOES PRESENT AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADVER ADVERTISE FOR THE BAR AND THE GOR, UH, WITH THAT SMALL LAND SHARK. UM, BASICALLY A SURFBOARD, WE CALL IT A SIGN, UH, SO THAT THEY CAN GET SOME MORE ADVERTISING CAPABILITIES TO THEIR LOCATION. UH, THEY'RE OKAY WITH DOING AWAY WITH, UH, THE BIG CHAIR. THEY'RE NOT REALLY CONCERNED WITH THAT, BUT THEY, THEY WOULD LIKE FOR THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER, UH, AT LEAST ALLOWING THEM FOR THE PATIO ADVERTISING, UM, ALONG WITH REDUCING THE SIGNS OF THE LETTERS THAT ARE GONNA BE PLACED ON THE BUILDING ITSELF. TALK TO THE, UM, LEASING OFFICE. 'CAUSE I THINK WE HAD DISCUSSED THIS LAST TIME THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE REASON OF STAFF'S, UH, RECOMMENDATION IS ALSO, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF SIGNAGE WE, HOW IT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR THE OTHER TENANTS AND WHAT, WHAT IS ALLOWED. I, I WILL NOTE, UM, FOR A LITTLE CLARIFICATION. SO, UM, A NUMBER OF THE EXAMPLES THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SHOWN, UM, ARE EITHER NOT LOCATED IN THE LAGOON AREA, UM, WHICH HAS A SLIGHTLY MORE RESTRICTIVE, UM, ALLOWANCE FOR SIGNAGE OR, UM, ARE ELEMENTS THAT HAVE AN INTERNAL ORIENTATION OR ARE ELEMENTS THAT ARE ON EAST COMMERCE. UM, EACH OF THESE YARD HOUSE, UM, MARGARITAVILLE HAVE ALL PUT TOGETHER A, A COMPLETE SIGN PACKAGE, UM, SIMILAR TO THIS ONE THAT THE COMMISSION HAS REVIEWED AND HAS APPROVED IN VARIOUS INSTANCES. UM, TO THAT POINT, I DON'T BELIEVE THIS WAS EVER INCLUDED. UM, I DO NOT BELIEVE THE COMMISSION WOULD'VE APPROVED THAT, BUT IT COULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED. UM, I STAFF'S MAIN CONCERN IS THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGES AT THE LAGOON LEVEL. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOS OF WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY THERE, UM, THE SIGNAGE WAS MUCH REDUCED. STAFF FINDS THAT EIGHT SQUARE FEET AT THE RIVER LEVEL WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. UM, THAT WOULD BE A REDUCTION OVER WHAT'S SEEN CURRENTLY HERE. UM, IN REGARDS TO THE PATIO, THIS RECEIVED CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UH, APPROXIMATELY A YEAR AGO. UH, PART OF THAT STIPULATION WAS THAT THE DETAILING AND MATERIALS MATCHED THAT WHICH IS FOUND AT THE RIVER LEVEL CURRENTLY, OR THE LAGOON LEVEL. UM, THAT STAFF'S PRIMARY CONCERN AS WELL AS THE ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE. UM, I, I DON'T, THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE THAT'S PROPOSED HERE IS NOT ONLY INCONSISTENT WITH THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY STANDARDS FOR THE RIVER LEVEL, BUT IT'S ALSO INCONSISTENT WITH THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN FOR THE MALL. UH, SO THAT'S STAFF'S PRIMARY CONCERN. THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING LAST TIME. WE DID ASK THE APPLICANT TO TALK TO THEM AND SEE IF HE COULD GET, UM, A COPY OF THAT MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN. WERE YOU ABLE TO DO THAT? NO, MA'AM. WE WERE NOT. IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, I THINK LAST TIME WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT, UM, MAYBE YOU COMING BACK WITH A DIFFERENT PROPOSAL. WE, WE CAME BACK AND WE REDUCED THE OVERALL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE SIGNS THAT WERE TO BE MOUNTED ON THE BUILDING, RESPECTFULLY REQUESTING THE ADDITION OF THE NON ILLUMINATED SIGN THAT'S ON THE PATIO WITH RESPECT TO THE OTHER BUSINESSES THAT ARE LOCATED IN THAT AREA, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE NOT, I GUESS THE LAGOON AREA IS AT THAT TURNAROUND. UH, BUT MARGARITAVILLE IS PRETTY CLOSE TO THAT LAG AREA. IF YOU, IF YOU COME AROUND IT TO MARGARITAVILLE IS JUST TO THE RIGHT, IT'S, IT'S ALMOST 45 DEGREE ANGLE ACROSS FROM WHERE THIS PROPOSED SITE IS NOW. SO, I MEAN, UM, [01:20:01] IT'S A FEW FEET . OH, I'LL ALSO NOTE THAT THAT LOCATION HAS SIGNAGE AT MULTIPLE LEVELS, WHICH PLAYS INTO THE FACT THAT ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE WAS APPROVED. UM, THE COMMISSION DOES HAVE THE ABILITY PER THE U D C TO APPROVE ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE AT THE RIVER LEVEL. UM, SO THE ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE, SQUARE FOOTAGE IS AN OPTION. UH, JUST NOTE THAT THERE IS A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN IN PLACE. I THINK IN ADDITION TO THE MASTER SCIENCE PLAN, I'M, I'M PRETTY CONCERNED ABOUT THE, THE CHARACTER OF THIS, UH, PATIO AND, UH, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THERE'S BEEN ANY EFFORT TO, UM, HAVE IT BE A BETTER INTEGRATED ELEMENTS IN THE LAUNA LAUNA AREA, WHICH IS ALL STONE PAVERS AND STONE WALLS AND STONE, STONE, STONE. AND I THINK THIS WOULD COME OFF LOOKING A LITTLE CHEAP IN, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE LAGUNA, WE ACTUALLY DID REDESIGN THE PATIO TO MEET THE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS. SORRY, YEAH, THAT I, BUT THOSE PICTURES ARE I RETRACT? YEAH. 'CAUSE I'M LOOKING AT A PACKAGE HERE THAT SH STILL SHOWS THE WOOD DECKS AND WOOD, UH, UH, SIDEWALLS AND THAT KIND OF THING. ARE WE LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT, A APPLICATION NOW OR? NO, IT'S DIFFERENT. IT'S, UM, IT, THIS IS JUST A LATE DOCUMENT THAT THE APPLICANT JUST HANDED ME. IT'S AN UPDATED DOCUMENT THAT APPARENTLY WASN'T SUBMITTED, BUT I WILL, THAT'S THE REDESIGN RIGHT THERE. I WILL NOTE, UM, JUST THAT GLANCE ON WHAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED, STAFF WOULD FIND THAT TO BE APPROPRIATE. UM, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, THE INCLUSION OF SIGNAGE ON THAT PATIO IS A CONCERN. UM, BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S AN OPTION FOR THE APPLICANT TO AT LEAST, UM, BE ABLE TO RECEIVE A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, SOME FOR SOME ITEMS TO MOVE FORWARD, AND THEN THE APPLICANT CAN RECONSIDER OTHER SIGNAGE ITEMS AND COME BACK WITH THAT. UH, FOR INSTANCE, UM, WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE SIGNAGE FROM THE PATIO, THE PATIO NOW APPEARS TO MATCH THE EXISTING MATERIALS AT THAT LEVEL. UH, SO THAT'S AN ITEM THAT THE COMMISSION COULD ACT ON. THE COMMISSION COULD ALSO ISSUE AN APPROVAL FOR SIGNAGE TO FEATURE H SQUARE FEET ABOVE THE PRIMARY ENTRANCE, AS WELL AS, UM, THERE WERE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR SOME OF THE OTHER BRANDED ELEMENTS, UM, THAT STAFF HAD THAT THE COMMISSION COULD, COULD RECOMMEND WITH THE STIPULATION, UM, AS WELL AS THE PEDESTRIAN MENU BOARD. UM, I CAN GO OVER THOSE IF THE COMMISSION WOULD FIND IT APPROPRIATE THAT MAY I JUST QUICKLY ASK YOU, DO YOU KNOW THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE EXISTING SIGNERS FROM THE FORMER TENANT? I DO NOT. IS IT MAYBE SOMETHING WE COULD CONSIDER AS MATCHING THE EXISTING SQUARE FOOTAGE? THE COMMISSION COULD CERTAINLY ENTERTAIN THAT. UM, I'M NOT FOR SURE OF THE EXISTING SIGN SQUARE FOOTAGE, THOUGH. IS IS THE IMAGE WE'RE LOOKING AT FROM A DIGITAL, FROM LIKE A IPAD OR SOMETHING? WHY DOES IT LOOK LIKE THAT? JUST A, A REALLY BAD CEILING CAMERA. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE OBJECTING DOWN ON THE TABLE? MAYBE WE CAN PASS IT ON. HA HAS STAFF RECEIVED, UH, CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS FOR THIS PATIO EXTENSION? THERE'S A, A PERMIT SET CURRENTLY, UM, THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. HOWEVER, STAFF HASN'T REMOVED OR REVIEW THAT SPECIFIC TO THAT, KNOWING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN STIPULATIONS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ADDRESSED. I, I, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. I, UH, I'M IMAGINING THAT CLEARLY THERE'S A, UM, SOME EFFORT TO ENSURE THAT EVERYBODY'S COMPETITIVE, RIGHT? SO IT WOULDN'T DO ANY GOOD FOR ONE BUSINESS TO DO REAL WELL. 'CAUSE IT HAS MORE THAN ENOUGH SIGNAGE AND ANOTHER BUSINESS NOT TO DO SO WELL, BECAUSE NOBODY CAN FIND IT, RIGHT? SO THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME, SOME OBJECTIVE OF THE SIGNAGE PERIOD BEFORE WHAT THE SIGNAGE LOOKS LIKE, RIGHT? THE COMMISSION'S ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE, UM, FROM THAT, FROM THAT STANCE, UH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING SIMPLY BASED ON THE U D C AND THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN, RIGHT. FOR THIS AREA. I FOLLOW YOU, BUT JUST KIND OF APPLES TO APPLES, RIGHT? THAT THERE'S OTHER BUSINESSES THERE AND THEY HAVE, UM, WHAT ONE COULD CALL ADEQUATE SIGNAGE, RIGHT? DO Y'ALL LOOK AT, DO YOU HAVE A, A, A VOCABULARY FOR, UM, REQUESTING UPGRADED SIGNAGE OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT YOU KINDA STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM AS YOU CAN? LIKE, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, THE MARGARITAVILLE HAS THIS NEON AND, AND THERE'S CLEARLY A CUSTOM HAND TO SOME OF THAT SIGNAGE. IS [01:25:01] IT THE AESTHETIC QUALITY THAT THAT, I MEAN, I MEAN, DO, DO YOU ALL OBJECT TO AESTHETIC AESTHETIC QUALITIES OR DO YOU OR YOU NOT HAVE A CODE THAT CAN DEAL WITH A WAY TO SAY YP TYPICALLY BETTER? TYPICALLY THAT'S LEFT UP TO THE COMMISSION'S DISCRETION. STAFF IS VERY CAREFUL ABOUT, UH, PROVIDING A CONSISTENT RECOMMENDATION. UM, WHILE THERE ARE SIGNS THAT ARE CLEARLY THAT MAY HAVE A, A BETTER DESIGN QUALITY THAN OTHERS, STAFF IS PAYING ATTENTION TO A HANDFUL OF THINGS THAT THE U D C DIRECTS US TO, TO TAKE NOTE THAT'S LIGHTING, SQUARE FOOTAGE AND MATERIALS, UM, AS WELL AS LOCATION. SO, UH, ESSENTIALLY STAFF IS GONNA MAKE A CONSISTENT RECOMMENDATION BASED ON WHAT'S PRESENTED. THE COMMISSION CAN THEN SAY, WHILE THIS IS MORE THAN WHAT'S RECOMMENDED OR OUTSIDE OF WHAT'S RECOMMENDED BASED ON DESIGN MERIT, WE FIND IT TO BE APPROPRIATE. UM, STAFF'S POSITION AND STAFF'S TASK IS TO ENSURE THAT THE U D C IS FOLLOWED AND THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING WHAT'S INSIDE OF THE U D C. WELL, WELL JUST GENERIC, JUST AS, KIND OF AS A GENERIC QUESTION. IF, IF THAT, THAT SAYS LANDSHARK CAME BACK MEETING ALL THE DIMENSIONS AND LOCATION, BUT THE MATERIALITY WAS THAT OF THE VILLE, WOULD THAT BE ALL RIGHT? I THINK THERE'S, EACH CASE IS DIFFERENT. WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL. UM, THE U D C GUIDELINES AND THAT'S WITH THE U D C GUIDELINES, DOESN'T DIFFERENTIATE BY ITS PER SIGN. IT'S NOT WHERE IT'S AT. RIGHT, RIGHT. NO, I THINK WHAT'S VERY IMPORTANT HERE IS THAT THIS LOCATION IS AT THE RIVER LAGOON. AND, AND I UNDERSTAND, I I I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M TRYING TO GET CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, SO I THINK I CAN, UH, EQUAL RIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD, RIGHT? FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A STAB AT THIS. YEAH. OKAY. UM, SO THE CODE HAS KIND OF A BASELINE, UH, STANDARDS FOR APPROVAL, AND THAT'S GENERALLY 50 SQUARE FOOT PER BUSINESS, THREE SIGNS. UM, NOW THAT ASSUMES MORE OR LESS A STOREFRONT. UM, THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABLES WHEN IT COMES TO SIGNAGE, SUCH AS BUILDING SIZE, UM, NUMBER OF ENTRANCES, UH, NUMBER OF STREET FACES, UM, AND IN THIS CASE, WITH THE MALL, WHEN THERE'S MULTIPLE TENANTS, UM, TYPICALLY WE APPROVE A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN. AND SO WHAT THAT DOES IS IT INFORMS WHAT THE SIZES AND LOCATIONS OF SIGN SHOULD BE FOR MULTIPLE TENANTS BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE SPACE THAT'S LEASED FROM IN THE BUILDING. AND SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT ONE BUILDING MIGHT HAVE ANCHOR TENANTS VERSUS, AND JUNIOR TENANTS AND SIGNAGE MIGHT BE SCALED ACCORDINGLY. UM, SO I CAN SAY, UM, MARGARITAVILLE WAS ONE OF THE LARGER TENANTS UNDER THE MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN APPROVED FOR THE MALL. AND SO THEY CAME IN AND, UH, DEMONSTRATED HOW THEY WERE CONFORMING WITH THE APPROVED SIGNAGE PLAN. UM, SO IN THIS CASE, UM, I THINK THE TONY ROMAS SIGNS DID CONFORM WITH THE MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN. AND SO WE'RE SEEING ADDITIONAL AND LARGER SIGNS FROM WHAT'S APPROVED. AND SO NOW WE ARE ON OUR OWN. WE DON'T HAVE A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN TO REFERENCE OR A APPROVAL RECORD FOR THIS, FOR THIS TENANT. UM, AND SO WE ARE REALLY JUST MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON WHAT THE CODE TELLS US TO. UM, AND GENERALLY THAT'S GONNA BE MORE RESTRICTIVE ON THE RIVER. AND ONE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS TO THE COMMISSIONER WAS TO SEE A MASTER SIGN PLAN, RIGHT? OR A MASTER MASTER PLAN. WELL, I WANTED THE APPLICANT TO LOOK AT IT. WE'VE SEEN IT BEFORE HERE, THE COMMISSION, AND IT WAS JUST MORE TO, FOR THE APPLICANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS BEEN APPROVED AND WHAT CAN BE APPROVED. UM, I'M, I'M WILLING TO, UH, I SEE THE PATIO DESIGN, IT LOOKS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE APPROVED PREVIOUS WITH THE, UH, RIVER CENTER MALL FOR THE PATIO WITHOUT THE SIGNAGE. UM, I THINK THAT ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE ON THE PATIO WOULD, UM, I THINK WE, I THINK IT CAN BE REPLACED WITH SOMETHING MAYBE LESS. UH, I THINK YOU CAN GO BACK AND MAYBE COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL THAT'S PROBABLY A BIT LESS IN SIZE BECAUSE OF ITS LOCATION. I WOULD BE WILLING TO APPROVE THE OTHER SIGNS ON THE BUILDING UNDER UNDERNEATH. UM, AND I WOULD BE WILLING TO SAY IT'S NOT ABOUT THE EIGHT SQUARE FEET, I WOULD SAY TO MATCH THE EXISTING TONY ROMOS, TONY ROMOS SQUARE FOOTAGE, AND STAFF WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS. YEAH, AND I THINK, UH, TO, TO CLARIFY TOO, UH, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF SIGNAGE. THERE'S LIKE WINDOW DECALS AND THERE'S NON BACKLIT SIGNAGE THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN MATCH THE TONY ROMA'S, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THAT TYPE OF SIGNAGE. AND THEN ALSO SEPARATE THAT FROM THIS BACKLIT, UH, OR HOW, HOWEVER THIS IS CONSTRUCTED. TONY ROMA SIGN, UM, THAT, EXCUSE ME, MATCH THAT WITH THE CHANNEL LETTER SIGNAGE THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING FOR LAND SHARK AND BAR AND GRILL. I THINK THOSE ARE THE TWO. UM, YOU KNOW, IF, IF YOU CAN DIFFERENTIATE THE TYPES OF SIGNAGE BY SQUARE FOOT, THEN I, I THINK I COULD SUPPORT MATCHING WHAT'S EXISTING THERE IN THE TONY ROMA SIGNAGE, AS WELL AS SOME OF THE BRANDED COMPONENTS THAT YOU HAVE. AND IF THAT WAS A STIPULATION, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF COULD VERIFY ON [01:30:01] THE BACKEND WITH THE APPLICANT AND, AND ISSUE A CERTIFICATE MICROPHONE IS, I'M GONNA KIND OF TRY TO CLEAR THE DECKS ON THIS. SO I AGREE WITH STAFF ON SOME OF THIS AND I WANNA REVISIT THE SIGN SPECIFICALLY, SO MAYBE WE CAN CRAFT A MOTION TO DEAL WITH IT AND GET THIS THING MOVING SO IT DOESN'T AFTER, UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS APPROVAL OF ITEMS SEVEN AND EIGHT WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS DENIAL OF ITEM NINE, AND WE CAN REVISIT THE SIGNS WHICH ARE 2, 2, 3, 6 FOLLOWING THIS MOTION. SECOND. MOTION A SECOND AS NOTED. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT ITEMS TWO THROUGH SIX. SO THE BARRING GRILL AND THE LAND SHARK, UH, SIGNS. CAN WE JUST PULL THOSE UP WHERE THEY'RE SHOWN IN THE CONTEXT? THERE WE GO. GO BACK RIGHT THERE. SO THE LAND SHARK SIGN IS CUT OFF. IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO TELL HOW MUCH AREA THAT'S COVERING RELATIVE TO THE BAY BECAUSE THESE ARE RECESSED UNDER THE AWNING WHERE VISIBILITY IS LIMITED. UH, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH IT MAYBE BEING A LITTLE BIT LARGER THAN THE TONY ROMO SIGN, WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT SIGN. THAT SIGN IS KIND OF GOING ACROSS THE WHOLE THING. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO GROUP IT IN PIECE A AND PIECE B, AND MY GUESS IS THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT, UH, STOREFRONT IS ARTICULATED. YES, EXACTLY. OKAY. LET'S LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE BAR AND GRILL AND THE LAND SHARK SIGNS. WHAT, WHAT SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, ARE EACH OF THOSE? BEAR WITH ME. UH, THE BAR AND GRILL IS APPROXIMATELY 19 SQUARE FEET, AND THE LAND SHARK IS APPROXIMATELY 67 SQUARE FEET. THE SMALLER LAND SHARK BAR AND GRILL IS APPROXIMATELY, I'M SORRY, THAT'S MOUNTED ON THE PATIO. SO I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE SIZE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BAR AND GRILL AND THE LAND SHARK AND HOW THAT RELATES TO THE PATIO. AND, UH, THE LAND SHARK, UH, IS A CA UH, A BACKLIT SIGN, OR IS THIS, IT IS ACTUALLY A, A FRONT LIT CHANNEL LETTER SIGN, FRONT LIT AND CHANNEL. IT SITS ON A RACEWAY. IT, EDWARD, DO WE HAVE A BETTER VIEW OF THAT SIGN IN, IN THE CONTEXT OF THE ELEVATION? UH, NO, THERE'S NOT, THERE MAY BE ONE THAT'S BEEN PASSED AROUND IN THE PACKET THAT THE APPLICANT'S BROUGHT. UM, THIS IS THE ONLY ONE IN CONTEXT, I BELIEVE THE NEW PACKET, SIR, I KNOW IT'S TRICKY, BUT WE NEED TO KEEP ALL OF THIS ON RECORD, SO PLEASE SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE. OH, IT IS, UM, MORE TO SCALE ON THE DOCUMENT THAT'S PASSING AROUND. WHAT OTHER SIGNAGE? UM, SO IN ELEMENTS TWO TO SIX, THERE'S DOSE TWO AND THE SURFBOARDS? YES, MA'AM. UH, THOSE ARE REALLY THE THREE SIGNS THAT MY CUSTOMERS IS REALLY SET ON HAVING, UM, DISPLAYED ON THEIR, THEIR NEW BUILDING. UM, THEY, THEY'RE OKAY WITH GOING OUT WITHOUT THE CHAIR, UM, AND WITHOUT SOME OF THE OTHER, UM, ELEMENTS THAT ARE, WERE PROPOSED IN THE PREVIOUS PACKAGE. UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST FOCUSING ON THE LAND SHARK, THE BAR AND GRILL AND THE SURFBOARD ON THE PATIO. OKAY, SO NO SURFBOARD UP AGAINST THE WALL? NO, MA'AM. AND I DO REMEMBER, IF I REMEMBER THE FINS UP SAN ANTONIO'S INSIDE THE BUILDING. YES, MA'AM. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THAT ONE, AND THAT'S ITEM NUMBER FOUR. NO, NUMBER FIVE. SO AS LONG AS IT'S [01:35:01] INSIDE, WE CAN APPROVE THAT. 'CAUSE IT'S, WELL, I MEAN, IT'S NOT EVEN OUR PURVIEW, RIGHT? I'M OKAY ACCEPTING THE, THE BARN GRILL AND THE LAND SHARK, UM, NOT THE PATIO SIGNAGE. IS THERE A CLARIFICATION ON THE SIZE OF, OF THOSE TWO PER THE RECENT DOCUMENT THAT'S BEEN PASSED AROUND? SO THE STAFF DOCUMENT THAT TODAY HAS BEEN GIVEN, WHAT, WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THE LAND SHARK? IN THE LATEST DOCUMENT, IT'S NOTED AS 19 SQUARE FEET, OR EXCUSE ME, LAND SHARK IS NOTED AS 67 SQUARE FEET AND, UH, BAR AND GRILL IS NOTED AT 19 SQUARE FEET. SO, UH, APPROXIMATELY THE SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE, UM, THAT IS NOTED IN THE, UH, IN THE ORIGINAL PACKAGE THAT YOU ALL HAVE REVIEWED. UM, THE RENDERING AND CONTEXT IS A BIT OUT OF SCALE, PARTICULARLY THE BAR AND GRILL. YOU KNOW, I, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH APPROVING ANY MORE OF THE SIGNAGE UNTIL THE MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN IS OBSERVED BY THE, UH, BY THE, UH, OKAY, SO ARE, THIS IS GETTING REALLY CONFUSING. I WISH WE COULD GET THE ORIGINAL, GET THE PROPOSAL AS IT IS TODAY UP ON THE SCREEN OR IN OUR PACKAGE. UM, SO THAT SIZE OF LAND SHARK IS, HOW TALL IS IT AND HOW LONG IS IT? BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IN THE PACKAGE IS THREE FEET TALL AND 22 FEET LONG. HOW BIG IS THIS? I BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS THE THREE FEET TALL AND 2 22 FEET LONG. UM, IT'S SIMPLY THAT THE RENDERING THAT'S SHOWN IN THE PACKET THAT WAS IN YOUR, THAT WAS IN THE POSTED AGENDA IS, IS OUT OF SCALE. CAN I APPROACH? OKAY. I BELIEVE THE FIRST TWO PAGES SHOWS A REDUCTION IN THOSE TWO PARTICULAR SIGNS. YEAH, SO THERE'S A, A SUBSTANTIAL REDUCTION. SO ORIGINALLY THE LAND SHARK WAS THREE FEET TALL. NOW IT'S A ONE FOOT EIGHT INCHES TALL AND, UH, 12 FEET LONG RATHER THAN 22 FEET LONG. SO THAT'S, THAT IS SIGNIFICANT. I APPRECIATE THAT. YES, SIR. THE BAR AND GRILL IS NOW ONE FOOT TWO INCHES TALL BY NINE FEET, TWO AND THREE EIGHTHS INCH. AND IN THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL IT WAS, SOMEONE CAN HELP ME HERE. YEAH, SIMILAR, SIMILAR TO THE OTHER. THERE IT IS ONE FOOT, IT WAS ONE FOOT EIGHT BY 13, ONE AND 11 16TH, SO IT'S GONE, GONE DOWN A BIT AS WELL. THANKS. BIG QUESTION FOR STAFF ABOUT, UH, THE REVERSE CHANNEL LETTERS. WHAT IS THE, THE PATTERN ALONG THAT SIDE? ARE THEY INTERNALLY ELIMINATED OR ARE THEY REVERSE, UH, LETTERS? THERE ARE, THERE ARE SIGNS THAT ARE INTERNALLY ELIMINATED THAT THE COMMISSION HAS APPROVED. UM, I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT NOTED A FEW OF THOSE IN THE, UH, LATE DOCUMENTS. I'M GONNA TRY MOTION, I'M GONNA APPROVE ITEM NUMBER TWO AND THREE AS THE APPLICANT HAS PRESENTED IN THE LATEST DOCUMENT. AND, UM, I BELIEVE, UH, THE OTHER ITEMS HAVE BEEN WITHDRAWN. SO SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I, I JUST MAKE A NOTE AND IT ISN'T A, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE A MAKE OR BREAK HERE, BUT I, I KIND OF FEEL LIKE THE BARN GRILL COMPETES WITH YOUR LAND SHARK AND IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, SO I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'D HAVE TO COME BACK FOR ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE DIMENSIONS, BUT TO CONSIDER SOME WAY OF, UH, BESIDES, UH, CAPITAL LETTERS VERSUS LOWERCASE, UH, FINDING A WAY TO MAKE THE BARN GRILL FEEL MORE LIKE A PART OF THE LAND SHARK. BUT, BUT I MEAN THAT'S, THAT WOULDN'T IN ANY WAY BE AN OBJECTION TO THE MOTION, JUST IF WITHIN THE PARAMETERS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED TO, TO CONSIDER THAT. CAN I ASK FOR CLARIFICATION ON THE MOTION? UM, [01:40:01] WAS THAT, UH, A APPROVING THE, UH, INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED SIGNAGE PROPOSED? YES. HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND IN DISCUSSION FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [A-8 19-7060 Address/Description: 1301 E COMMERCE STHDRC Case No.: 2019-532Historic District Name: Dignowity HillApplicant: Alonzo Alston/Sol Studio ArchitectsRequest: Exterior modifications, fenestration modifications, paintingCity Council Dist.: 2] NUMBER A EIGHT H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 4 58 13 0 1 EAST COMMERCE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO PERFORM EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AT 1301. EAST COMMERCE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH C STAFF FINDS THAT MODIFICATIONS TO STRUCTURES WITHIN HISTORIC DISTRICTS SHOULD RELATE TO MATERIALS AND STRUCTURES FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT. UM, THERE ARE ADDITIONAL, UH, STIPULATIONS OR CLARIFICATION AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION BELOW THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. ALONZO ALSTON WITH SOUL STUDIO ARCHITECTS. I'M ALSO JOINED BY CHRIS HARRIS, THE CLIENT, AND ASHLEY FAIRMONT. AND JODY PEPITONE, WHO IS THE CONTRACTOR ON THE PROJECT. CAN YOU BRIEFLY RUN THROUGH YOUR PROPOSED DESIGN AND, AND, UM, RESPOND TO STAFF STIPULATIONS? SURE. WE, WE PREPARED A, A SMALL, UM, RESPONSE TO STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, WE'RE NOT IN AN AGREEMENT WITH STAFF COMMENTS AS THEY RELATE TO THE RECOMMENDATIONS ONE AND TWO. THE, WE BELIEVE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD BE VALID IF THE SUBJECT BUILDING WERE A MORE REPRESENTATIVE ARCHETYPE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AS WE ALL KNOW, NUITY HILL DISTRICT IS NOT MADE UP OF A HOMOGENOUS STYLE ARCHITECTURE WITHIN IT. HOWEVER, IT IS PREDOMINANTLY MADE OF RESIDENTIAL HOMES BUILT AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY AND THE FOLK VICTOR STYLE OF ARCHITECTURE. THE SUBJECT BUILDING IS AN EXAMPLE OF A ATYPICAL STRUCTURE WITHIN THE DISTRICT. THE BUILDING, IN OUR OPINION, IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING, IS NON-CONTRIBUTING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WHY? WHEN THE BUILDING WAS ORIGINALLY BUILT CIRCA 1970, THERE WAS LITTLE CONSIDERATION DUE TO THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORING HOMES THAT WERE BUILT MORE THAN 60 YEARS PRIOR. IN OUR OPINION, THE ARCHITECT DESIGNED THE STRUCTURE IN THE VEIN OF THE LATEST DESIGN THEORIES OF THE TIME, WHICH IS ADMIRAL TO TO AN EXTENT. THE EXECUTION OF THE DESIGN COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER ACHIEVED BY UTILIZING A MORE APPROPRIATE PROPORTIONING SYSTEM. IN ADDITION, THE BUILDING WAS POORLY BUILT, RESULTING IN A DETERIORATION IN THOSE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF FACADE ELEMENTS. THE STAFF COMMENTS GENERALLY RESULT IN THE REQUEST TO REMOVE THE BAD ELEMENTS AND REPLACE THEM BACK IN THE SAME WING. THIS THOUGHT PROCESS OBVIOUSLY CHECKS ALL THE BOXES FOR PRESERVATION, BUT IT IS NOT THE BEST APPROACH FOR THE STRUCTURE. IN OUR OPINION, THE BUILDING SUFFERS FROM TWO MAIN COMPONENTS. ONE, THE BUILDING WAS POORLY BUILT TO THE BUILDING, WAS POORLY DESIGNED, AND THE BUILT, IF THE BUILDING WERE BETTER DESIGNED IN 1970, THERE WOULD BE MORE MERIT TO PRESERVE THE FACADE. IN MY OPINION, IT IS A BLIGHT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. OUR THOUGHT PROCESS DEVELOPING THE DESIGN WAS TO CONSIDER THE ARCHITECT'S DESIRE TO EMPHASIZE THE CURRENT THEORIES AND DESIGN REGARDING AESTHETICS. BUT TO CORRECT THE FUNDAMENTAL DESIGN ISSUES WITH THE FACADE, WE WANTED TO HONOR THE GREAT ELEMENTS OF THE BUILDING BY ALLUDING TO THE MANSARD ROOF BY GHOSTING AND FRAMEWORK AND PLACING THE ROOFING METAL THAT WOULD'VE BEEN ON IT ON THE WALLS. WE GAVE A NOD TO THE MASONRY FACADE BY PLACING MASONRY THREE COATS, STUCCO IN ITS PLACE, AS WELL AS STONE AS A STONE WA SCOTT. WITHIN THESE PARAMETERS, WE CORRECTED THE PROPORTIONS OF THE FACADE BY VARYING THE MATERIALS IN A WAY THAT IS IN MORE CONCERT WITH THE SCALES OF THE NEIGHBORING BUILDINGS. WE WORKED IN THE VEIN THAT WE HAD A DUTY TO THINK BEYOND CHECKING THE BOXES OF A CRITERIA THAT WOULD BE MORE SUITABLE FOR A STRUCTURE MOST COMMONLY FOUND WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF SIMILAR SCALE. WE BELIEVE THIS RESULTS IN A BETTER, MORE NEIGHBORLY IMPROVEMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. IN ADDITION, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH CITY STAFF ASSIGNED TO THE PROJECT AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE FACADE. WE HAVE REVISITED THE FACADE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE FEEDBACK RECEIVED ITEMS INCLUDED IN BRIEF, PROVIDING MORE DEPTH IN THE, OF THE FACADE BY VARYING THE DEPTH OF THE WALLS AND PROVIDING A LESS FLASH AS ASSORTMENT OF MATERIAL SELECTIONS, REDUCING THE SCALE OF THE STUCCO PATTERN TO BE LESS CORPORATE, EMULATE THE MANSARD ROOF BY FLARING OUT THE SIDES OF THE [01:45:01] PROPOSED STRUCTURAL FRAME WITH STAFF. COMMENTS IN MIND. WE CONSIDER THE USE OF MATERIALS ON THE BUILDING TO EMULATE THE ORIGINAL ELEMENTS. METAL FOR METAL, GLASS FOR GLASS MASONRY, FOR MASONRY. HOWEVER, WE FOUND THE MOST PROMINENT MASONRY ARCHETYPE FOR THIS BUILDING OF THIS SCALE TO BE STUCCO WITH A BASE OF STONE. WE TO COINCIDE WITH THE BUILDINGS FURTHER EAST ON COMMERCE STREET DEEPER INTO THE DISTRICT. THE RESULT WAS FOUR VETTED OPTIONS PRIOR TO THE SUBMISSION SINCE THE INITIAL SUBMITTAL A MONTH AGO. SO LOOKING AT THE, OKAY, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL BUILDING AT TOP, IT SHOWS A SARD ROOF IN THE MIDDLE AND STONE VENEER ON THE FLANKING SIDES. AND DURING THE EXPLORATION OF THE CONTRACTOR, UM, THERE WAS NOTICE THAT THE MANSARD ROOF WAS, UM, DETERIORATING FROM BEHIND ALL THE STRUCTURE BEHIND IT. SO, UM, WE HAD OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TAKE A LOOK AT THE INVESTIGATION AND DETERMINE THAT THE MANSARD ROOF SHOULD BE REMOVED. AND THEN LATER ON WHAT WAS DISCOVERED IS THE STONE IS ALSO, UM, BEING, UH, DETERIORATED FROM BEHIND ALL THE, THE SUPPORTS FROM BEHIND THERE. THIS IS OUR INITIAL SUBMITTAL TO H D R C ABOUT A MONTH AGO. UM, AFTER SUBMITTING THIS, WE ENDED UP PULLING IT FROM THE AGENDA AND WE STARTED WORKING WITH STAFF. AS WE'RE WORKING THROUGH STAFF, WE WERE WORKING THROUGH COLOR VARIATIONS AS WELL AS ARTICULATIONS ON THE FACADE. AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, WE ALLUDED TO THE MANSARD ROOF BY INTRODUCING THE STRUCTURAL FRAME IN THE FRONT, FRONT SIDE OF THE BUILDING. UH, HOWEVER, STAFF ALSO RECOMMENDED FOR US TO UPDATE THE PATTERNS ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING AS WELL AS, UM, EMULATING THE MANSARD ROOF A BIT MORE. THESE ARE SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE RECORDED DURING THAT, THAT TIME. AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE RED MARKS THAT WE TOOK, TOOK NOTE OF DURING THAT, THAT MEETING, IT RESULTED IN THIS FACADE THAT YOU SEE HERE, WHICH WAS, UH, A MORE NEUTRAL PALETTE. HOWEVER, THE FINAL RESULT WAS A COMPROMISE BETWEEN WHAT OUR CLIENT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE APPROVED AND WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE, WHAT WAS ACCEPTABLE TO, TO STAFF AT THE TIME OF THE MEETING, WHICH SHOWS THE MANSARD ROOF KIND OF, UH, REDUCED BUT EMULATED IN THE FRAMEWORK. AND THEN A METAL PANEL RIGHT BESIDE THAT, BREAKING DOWN THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING. AND THEN A SMALLER, UH, STUCCO PATTERN ON LINKING SIDES. I HAVE A QUESTION. I MEAN, UM, SO STAFF IS NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL, MAYBE, WAS THERE A D R C ON THIS? ANYBODY? NO, THERE WASN'T THE MISCOMMUNICATION POTENTIALLY. IS THERE ANYBODY FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? WE DID REACH OUT TO MONICA SAVINO AS WELL AS NICO BBAR. DO YOU HAVE LETTERS THAT SUPPORT O H P RECOMMENDATION? CORRECT. THERE ARE LETTERS IN YOUR PACKET, UM, FROM, UM, BOTH ARC AND THE END DECK, SEE THAT YOU COME AWAY FROM THE INITIAL, UM, PROPOSAL TO THIS. YES, MA'AM. UM, I DO THINK THAT STAFF, I THINK WE CAN BE, YOU KNOW, I CAN, I CAN SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, A CHANGE IN IN MATERIALS AND, AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING THE RIGHT WAY. AND I THINK ON THE MIDDLE PART, I GUESS THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK CAN BE STILL BE WORKED ON. UM, I THINK YOU GOT THE STONE AND TRYING TO REPLICATE THAT AND UPGRADE THAT, I THINK YOU GOT IT RIGHT, BUT NOT REALLY ON THE MIDDLE PART. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'D BE WILLING TO WORK MORE WITH? MAYBE YOU ALSO HAVE A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING? WE CAN ENTERTAIN THAT WITH OUR CLIENT. OF COURSE. WE WERE HOPING THAT WE WOULD GET APPROVAL FOR THIS ITEM AS SUBMITTED IN, IN, IN, IN. JUST IN TERMS OF, UH, GENERAL COMMENTS ON, ON THE WORK, I, I, I CAN SEE HOW Y'ALL ARE TELLING A STORY USING, USING ARCHITECTURE IN THIS, IN A WAY, KIND OF A DIFFICULT BUILDING BECAUSE IT'S A, THIS IS DONE ALL THE TIME. PEOPLE [01:50:01] BUILD WAREHOUSES AND IN ORDER TO GET CURB APPEAL, THEY, THEY ADD THINGS TO THE FRONT OF IT, RIGHT? UM, BUT I, I'VE LOOKING AT THE LETTER FROM THE ENGINEER, UM, YOU HAVE THE, HAVE HAD, I GUESS LOOKED AT THE OPTION TO, TO DO WHAT'S THERE OR TO BRING IT INTO A FUTURE NARRATIVE, I IMAGINE. YES. UM, I I CAN, I CAN APPRECIATE THAT. UM, AS IT, AS IT STANDS, I, I SEE IT, IT CONTRIBUTING TO THE, TO THE NARRATIVE ON THAT STREET, AND I, I I WOULD SUPPORT IT. I THINK THE DESIGN YOU'RE PRESENTING TODAY DOES, UM, HELP WITH THE, THE STREET FRONT AS BREAKING DOWN THE, THE MASS AND SCALE OF THAT, UH, EXISTING FACADE, UH, WITH THE STUCCO BANDS AND METAL PANEL BANDS. AND IN THE CENTER ELEMENT OR MANSARD ELEMENT, I THINK IT PROVES THAT, UH, STREET FACADE WHO'S, UH, I MEAN THE BIG, THE BIG QUESTION AS TO WHAT DETERMINATION SHOULD BE MADE HERE IS, IS IT APPROPRIATE, UM, TO CHANGE THE, THE, THE ROCK FACE TO A DIFFERENT SORT OF MASONRY MATERIAL IN A, IN A SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT SCALE AND MODIFY THE MANSARD AWNING IN A WAY THAT IS ALSO SIMILAR IN MATERIAL? CORRECT. SO WE'VE GOT METAL FOR METAL, GLASS FOR GLASS, ABSOLUTELY MASONRY FOR MASONRY. UH, I THINK, UM, GIVEN THE CONDITION OF THE MATERIAL AND THE, THE AGE OF THE BUILDING, THE, THE MATERIAL THAT'S THERE IS NOT PARTICULARLY SIGNIFICANT. SO I WOULD SUPPORT A CHANGE IN MATERIAL. AND I THINK THE SCALE AND PROPORTIONS THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE ARE APPROPRIATE. YES, I, I, I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THE, THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE MATERIAL, UH, GIVEN THE EXISTING MATERIALS, UM, AND THEIR LACK OF SIGNIFICANCE. AND THEN I, I, I AGREE WITH WHAT'S BEEN PROPOSED, UM, AND, AND YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE SCALE AND BREAKING DOWN THE SCALE, I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE BUILDING. IS THAT A MOTION? I, I COULD MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYE. THANK YOU. MOTION PASSES. UM, SO THAT CONCLUDES OUR A ITEMS, UM, STAFF WILL NEED ABOUT FIVE MINUTES TO RECONCILE THE CITIZENS BE HEARD SHEET. SO WE'LL JUST TAKE A QUICK BREAK AND WE'LL START WITH THE B ITEMS. THANK YOU. OKAY, I THINK WE'RE READY TO CONTINUE. UM, FIRST QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT. SPANISH TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETING, AND WE HAVE A QUICK VIDEO, WELL, I GOT THAT. S THE, AND THEN ONCE MORE WHILE EVERYONE'S HERE. JUST A QUICK PLUG FOR OUR HISTORIC HOMEOWNER AFFAIR THIS SATURDAY. UM, IT'S A FREE EVENT AT THE PEARL STABLE GOING ON FROM NINE TO 2:00 PM WE HOST THIS EVENT AS A RESOURCE FOR OUR, UM, FOR OWNERS OF OLD HOUSES IN SAN ANTONIO. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN A STORE DISTRICT TO ATTEND. UM, AND IT'S ALL SORTS OF RESOURCES AND EDUCATIONAL SESSIONS FOR YOU TO ATTEND. SO WE, WE ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO SWING BY. UM, ['B' ITEMS CONSENT AGENDA] WITH THAT, UM, WE CAN DRAW OUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. UM, WE HAVE SEVEN ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. UM, NO CITIZEN SIGNED IN FOR THOSE, AND WE CAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT, UH, AGENDA ITEMS, UH, B ONE THROUGH B SEVEN WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. THE MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES, YOUR HONOR, THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 10 32 DAWSON, 15 7 0 1 O'CONNOR 2 0 4 ARSENAL, 2 29 WEST HOLLYWOOD, 2 38 EAST CAROLINA ONE 20 CALLAHAN, AND MULTIPLE RIVERWALK LOCATIONS. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AN EMAIL TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RETURNED THE PUBLIC NOTICE, YARD SIGN POSTED ON YOUR PROPERTY, PLEASE DO SO AT THE O H P COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. I WILL NOTE THAT AGENDA ITEM B 8 4 34 SHERMAN HAS BEEN POSTPONED BY THE APPLICANT TO OCTOBER THE SECOND [B-9 19-7032 Address/Description: 111 BOSTON HDRC Case No.: 2019-463 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Robert Lee/LINDLEE LLC Request: Construction of a 2-story residential structure City Council Dist.: 2] [01:55:04] AGENDA, ITEM B NINE H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 4 63, 4 63, EXCUSE ME, ONE 11 BOSTON. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE ON THE VACANT LOT AT ONE 11 BOSTON, LOCATED WITHIN THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED FOR THE STRUCTURE TO FEATURE APPROXIMATELY 1,630 SQUARE FEET. STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT ADDRESS ITEMS LISTED BELOW PRIOR TO RECEIVING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. IN CONSIDERATION OF TIME, I WON'T READ THOSE ITEMS, UH, HOWEVER, IF THE COMMISSION HAS A SPECIFIC QUESTION, I CAN'T ADDRESS THOSE, THE APPLICANT HERE. PLEASE, PLEASE. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ROBERT LEE WITH LIN LEE DESIGN BUILD, AND WE'RE HERE LOOKING FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL ON ONE 11 BOSTON. IT, IT ACTUALLY MAY BE A LITTLE QUICKER IF I GO THROUGH 'EM. UH, STIPULATION ONE WAS THAT THE APPLICANT CONTINUED TO STUDY TO REDUCE THE PROPOSED MASSING ON THE STREET ELEVATION TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND ON THE BLOCK. UM, STAFF NOTED THAT AN INCREASED FRONT SETBACK MAY HELP WITH THAT. UH, STIPULATION TOO IS THAT THE APPLICANT CONTINUED TO REVISE THE WRAPAROUND PORCH ROOF. THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED AN UPDATED DOCUMENT THAT WE'LL REVIEW NOW IN REGARDS TO PORCH MASSING. SO AS FAR AS THE, THE MASSING GOES WELL, ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS WAS THE ROOF, AND SO WE ADJUSTED THE PORCH ROOF TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT STEEPER, UH, A RAKE ON IT, SO THERE'D BE MORE IN KEEPING WITH WHAT IS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, IT IS A WRAPAROUND PORCH. AS FAR AS THE MASSING GOES, WE ARE SETBACK. CURRENTLY THE HOUSE IS ADJACENT TO US ARE AT A, UH, A 10 FOOT SETBACK. AND SO WE ARE PROPOSING STARTING OUR PORCH, UH, 30 INCHES, SO TWO AND A HALF FEET AWAY FROM THE 10 FOOT SETBACK. SO WE'RE ALREADY AT 12 AND A HALF FEET. AND ADDITIONALLY, OUR PORCH IS A PROPER DEEP PORCH. UM, SO IT IS ABOUT EIGHT FEET DEEP, SO OUR MASSING OF OUR HOME, OR OUR FRONT FACADE IS A GOOD, UH, 11 AND A HALF, 12 FEET, UH, AWAY FROM THE, THE RED LINE YOU SEE THERE. SO WE FEEL THAT OUR, OUR, OUR MASSING DOES SET BACK AND IT DOES SHOW, UH, PROPER DEFERENCE TO THE HISTORIC HOMES OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE ARE ALSO ON AN INTERIOR LOT, AND, UM, SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY, ANY DIRECT NEIGHBORS CURRENTLY. UM, SO THE, THE LOT TO THE LEFT, WHICH IS THE SOUTH, IS, UH, BELIEVED THAT IS OLIVE AND THAT FRONT'S OLIVE. SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY, ANYONE DIRECTLY TO OUR, OUR LEFT IF WE'RE LOOKING FROM THE FRONT FACADE. SO WE BELIEVE THAT WE, UM, WE MEET THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS AND WE EXCEED THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, AND WE FEEL THAT OUR MASSING IS IN KEEPING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. ADDITIONALLY, WE HAVE, UM, THERE IS A SLOPE FROM THE NORTH TO SOUTH OF THE, IT, THERE'S A CHANGE IN, UM, IN GRADE AS YOU GO DOWN, ALSO FROM FRONT OF THE PROPERTY TO THE BACK. SO AS IT, IT STEPS DOWN THE STREET, WE FEEL THAT OUR, OUR HOUSE, UM, WORKS WELL WITH THE NEIGHBORS. AND ALSO THERE IS A, UH, A GRAPHIC OF TREES THERE THAT SEPARATES US FROM THE, THE HOUSE THAT FRONTS, UM, OLIVE. SO WE FEEL LIKE THERE'S A NICE BUFFER THERE. SO WE'RE NOT DIRECTLY ON TOP OF ANY OUR NEIGHBORS. THIS DIAGRAM IS IN RESPONSE TO STIPULATION THREE. THE APPLICANT HAD SUBMITTED A STREET DIAGRAM PREVIOUSLY, HOWEVER, IT DIDN'T SHOW THIS STORAGE STRUCTURE ADDRESSED TO OLIVE STREET. UH, STAFF RECOMMENDED THAT THE APPLICANT INCLUDE, UM, THAT STRUCTURE IN THIS DIAGRAM TO ENSURE THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY, UM, UH, MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HEIGHTS, UM, BETWEEN WHAT'S PROPOSED AND WHAT'S EXISTING. SO WHAT THE GUIDELINES DO STATE THAT, UH, WE WANT TO BE WITHIN ONE STORY OF ALL THE, UH, THE SURROUNDING STRUCTURES AND WE'RE COMFORTABLY WITHIN THAT. ALSO, ONE OF THE COMMENTS WAS, UH, MAKING SURE THAT OUR, OUR, UH, FINISHED FLOOR WAS HIGH ENOUGH. SO, UH, IF WE GO TO ONE OF THE FACADE PHOTOS, SO WE'RE PROPOSING BUILDING THE FRONT PORCH AT, UH, THE MINIMUM, IT WOULD BE A 12 INCH EXPOSURE FROM THE GROUND. AND SINCE THE, THE PROPERTY SLOPES, UH, YOU WOULD GET A GREATER EXPOSURE, UH, BOTH, UH, FROM LEFT OR RIGHT TO LEFT. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE FRONT FACADE AS WELL AS BACK TO THE PROPERTY, YOU WOULD BECOME MORE OUTTA THE GROUND. SO WE DEFINITELY, UM, CAN ACHIEVE THAT AND MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS. [02:00:01] I BELIEVE ONE OF THE, UH, STAFF'S, OTHER COMMENTS, UM, AND THIS ALSO ADDRESSED IN THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING WAS FOR THE EXTENSION OF THE, THE PORCH ROOF ACROSS THE ENTIRETY OF THE FRONT FACADE RATHER THAN, UM, STOPPING, UH, WHERE THE STOOP PORTION STOPS. WOULD YOU LIKE TO COMMENT ON THAT? SURE. WE ARE OPEN TO LOOKING AT THAT, UH, DESIGN CHANGE. WE JUST WANTED TO KIND OF, UH, MAKE THE, UH, THE PORTS A LITTLE MORE CONTEMPORARY, BUT BY NOT CONTINUING TO CROSS THE FRONT FACADE, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE'RE OPEN TO. THIS IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, SO YOU COULD STUDY THAT AS YOU DEVELOP THE, THE PLANS. WHAT'S YOUR, UH, OPINION ON ITEM NUMBER FOUR OR RECOMMENDATION NUMBER FOUR? THE MATERIALS? WE CAN DEFINITELY ACHIEVE THAT. UM, SO IN THE MARKETPLACE, UH, A CEMENT BOARD, SIDING GOES REALLY FAR. THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT. THEY WANT LOW MAINTENANCE. UH, WE CAN DEFINITELY ACHIEVE THE, THE SMOOTH FINISH, UM, THAT THE, UH, O H P IS LOOKING FOR, AS WELL AS THE FOUR INCH EXPOSURE. UH, THE CHALLENGES IS THE, UH, MITRE CORNERS BECAUSE YOU WOULD, WE WOULD JUST PUT, UM, CORNER BOARDS ON THE TRIM AND TRIM THAT OUT. IT'S VERY CHALLENGING TO DO A CEMENT BOARD, AND I'M NOT AWARE OF A, UM, A THREE QUARTER INCH, UH, CEMENT BOARD PRODUCT, UH, THAT I COULD REFER YOU TO ONE. OKAY. THE CHALLENGE IS TRYING TO GET THEM TO MEET, UH, YOU CAN'T PIN THE CORNERS LIKE YOU CAN WITH WOOD. UM, KIND OF OUR STANDARD AND, AND WE'VE SEEN IT IN MANY PROPERTIES. I THINK STAFF CAN WORK WITH YOU ON THAT ONE IF YOU WOULD LIKE. I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN KEEP THAT AS A STIPULATION AND THEN FORWARD WITH STAFF. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE, UH, THE METAL ROOFING, UH, STIPULATIONS AS WELL AS THE WINDOW DETAILING THE METAL ROOFING IS NOT A PROBLEM. UH, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DEFINITELY GET THE LARGER PAN THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND AS FAR AS THE WINDOW DETAIL WITH SITTING IT, UH, DEEPER TO MAKING, MAKING IT LOOK MORE APPROPRIATE IS NOT A PROBLEM. WE DID ADJUST THE WINDOWS, UH, PER O H P RECOMMENDATIONS TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF FENESTRATION ON ALL THE FACADES, AS WELL AS, UH, DIVIDING THE LIGHTS SO THAT WE WOULD GET A MORE HISTORIC AND AUTHENTIC LOOK. RIGHT NOW, ARE YOU CONSIDERING, UM, WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS? UM, WE ARE LOOKING, WE'RE LOOKING AT WOOD, WE'RE LOOKING AT BOTH. SO IT'S, IT'S, THIS IS GONNA BE, UH, WE'VE GOT A POTENTIAL CLIENT IN MIND AND, UM, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK WHATEVER'S MOST APPROPRIATE AND ALSO THAT FITS THEIR BUDGET. THAT'S THE DEFINITE CHALLENGE. SO I THINK THE INCREASED SETBACK IS PROBABLY GETTING TO RESOLVE SOME OF THAT MASSING ISSUE. SO I'M GONNA MOVE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH STIPULATION TO FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. [B-10 19-7048 Address/Description: 335 TRAILHDRC Case No.: 2018-533Historic District Name: River RoadRIO District: RIO-1Applicant: Katie Bingham, AIA/Mark Odom StudioRequest: Construction of a multi-family residential developmentCity Council Dist.: 1 (Part 1 of 2)] AGENDA ITEM B 10 H D R C CASE NUMBER 28 5 33 3 35 TRAIL. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE VACANT LOT LOCATED AT 3 35. TRAIL STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING Q, WHICH NOTES THE INCLUSION OF STREET FACING FRONT LOADED GARAGE DOORS, AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT THAT IS NOT PRESENT WITHIN THE RIVER ROAD. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF FINDS THIS DETAIL TO BE INAPPROPRIATE AND INCONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. UM, IF THE H D R C FINDS THE SUBMITTED DESIGN TO BE APPROPRIATE, STAFF HAS, UH, LISTED A NUMBER OF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE COMMISSION TO CONSIDER. UM, I WILL NOTE THAT THE APPLICANT HAS ADDRESSED A NUMBER OF THESE, OR HAS NOTED THAT THEY WILL COMPLY WITH A NUMBER OF THESE AND CAN GO INTO DETAIL ON THAT IF NEEDED. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF SPEAKERS, UM, FIRST WE'LL CALL IT THE APPLICANT FOR A PRESENTATION, NOT WE CAN SEE 20 MINUTES. UM, AND THEN WE'LL CALL CITIZENS. MY NAME IS DAVID MORIN. HI, I AM MARY MICHAEL GLASSELL, RYAN PLUGINS. SO MARY MICHAEL REPRESENTS OUR ARCHITECTURE FIRM. RYAN IS OUR CIVIL ENGINEER, AND I'M WITH THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM. SO I JUST WANT TO, AS A PRECURSOR TO THIS, THIS, THESE KIND OF MEETINGS. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NEXT. UM, WE'VE BEEN HERE 14 TIMES. THIS IS OUR 14TH [02:05:01] TIME TO APPEAR EITHER THROUGH A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE OR THROUGH A FORMAL HEARING SUCH AS THIS. UM, WE BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE WORKED AS DILIGENTLY AS POSSIBLE THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. WE'VE, UH, TAKEN A LOT OF FEEDBACK. WE'VE INCORPORATED IT INTO OUR DESIGN SEPARATELY. WE'VE MET WITH THE NEIGHBORS OVER ON, OVER SEVEN DIFFERENT OCCASIONS, UM, AND THEY'VE ALL BEEN PRESENT AT OUR D R C MEETINGS AND OUR H D R C HEARINGS. THE LAST TWO ITEMS THAT WE WERE ASKED TO ADDRESS IN OUR LAST H D R C HEARING, UM, AND THAT ARE SORT OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT TODAY. THE FIRST IS STAFF'S, UM, THE, THE, UH, FRONT FACING GARAGES ON TRAIL STREET. I THINK IN EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR D R C MEETINGS, COMMISSIONERS HAVE AGREED THAT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT, UM, IS REALLY A CONCERN JUST DUE TO THE STATUS OF TRAIL STREET ITSELF. UH, THE SECOND ITEM, UM, WHICH WE HAD TO ADDRESS FROM LAST MEETING WAS OUR STORMWATER DRAINAGE PLAN, WHICH WE DO NOT BELIEVE IS REALLY WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW. HOWEVER, SINCE IT IS CLOSE TO THE AEIA, WHICH IS A, UH, SENSITIVE AREA FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE, IN OUR LAST D R C MEETING SHOWED TWO PLANS, WHICH WE ALSO HAVE ATTACHED TO OUR, UH, APPLICATION, UM, TWO PLANS THAT ARE POSSIBLE, UH, STORMWATER SOLUTIONS. WE HAVEN'T CONFIRMED THOSE SOLUTIONS. WE'RE GONNA BE WORKING THROUGH THOSE SOLUTIONS, UH, THROUGHOUT BUILDING PERMIT JUST BASED ON COST BENEFIT ANALYSES. UM, BUT WE HAVE SHOWED THAT WE'VE COMMUNICATED THAT TO THE NEIGHBORS. OUR ENGINEER CAN SPEAK TO THAT ISSUE. UM, THE, THE STIPULATION THAT WE WANT TO DISCUSS TODAY IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE, UH, TALKED ABOUT WITH STAFF, UH, THROUGH EMAIL COMMUNICATION AND, AND WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IN OUR D R C MEETING, AND THIS IS JUST THE WINDOW TYPE. SO THE EXTERIOR OF THE WINDOW IS ALUMINUM. WE'RE PROPOSING A BLACK ALUMINUM, UH, WINDOW. AND, UH, WE'VE WORKED AS LONG FROM OUR COMMUNICATIONS WITH STAFF AND IN D R C MEETINGS, WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT AN ALUMINUM WINDOW COULD WORK SINCE IT LOOKS THE SAME ON THE OUTSIDE AS LONG AS IT MEETS THE DETAILS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE TO STAFF. UH, WE AGREE WITH THAT. WE'D LIKE TO WORK WITH STAFF ON THOSE WINDOWS. AND, UH, I'LL LET MARY MICHAEL GIVE OUR PRESENTATION. OKAY. I'LL START, UM, JUST WITH A NARRATIVE OF SOME OF THE CHANGES, ESPECIALLY FROM, UM, THE CIVIL AND THE ARCHITECTURAL SIDE. AND THEN I'LL LET RYAN TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE IN DETAIL ABOUT THAT. UM, OUR CIVIL AND LANDSCAPE DRAWINGS, WHICH WE INCLUDED AS AN ADDENDUM IN OUR SUBMITTAL, WE'VE NOW INCLUDED JUST THE OPTIONS HERE IN THE PRESENTATION SO THAT IT CAN KIND OF BE MORE CONVENIENT. SO WE'LL TALK, TALK THROUGH THAT OR I'LL LET RYAN KIND OF GIVE A BRIEF DESCRIPTION. WE DID WANNA NOTE THAT THE SITE CURRENTLY IS ONLY 52% IMPERVIOUS COVER, WHICH INCLUDES BUILDING AND CONCRETE FOOTPRINTS. I THINK THAT WAS A, A DISCUSSION TOPIC LAST TIME. I ALSO WANTED TO ADD THAT, UM, AND I'LL LET RYAN, UH, EXPAND ON THAT MOMENTARILY, BUT THAT THE PORCHES WERE ANOTHER DISCUSSION, WHICH WE HAVE CHANGED PER OUR CONVERSATION. WE ADDED SOME DOUBLE WOOD COLUMNS AND CHANGED THE PLANTER TO BE 24 INCHES, STILL BRICK, BUT DEEP ENOUGH TO BE A PLANTER. AND THESE PORCHES ARE FIVE BY SEVEN FOOT SIX ON EACH UNIT. THE OVERALL SITE PLAN, THE SIDEWALKS HAVE BEEN REDUCED. PORCH PLANNERS AND COLUMNS HAVE BEEN INCLUDED FOR EACH UNIT, AND THE FACADE WINDOW ALIGNMENT HAS BEEN ADJUSTED TO REFLECT OUR CONVERSATION PREVIOUSLY. AGAIN, JUST TO HIGHLIGHT THE STAFF STIPULATIONS THAT WERE GIVEN TO US ON MONDAY. WE'RE HAPPY TO COMPLY WITH ITEMS. 1, 2, 3, 4, OR SORRY, FOUR, SORRY, I'M LOOKING DOWN. FOUR IS THE WINDOWS AND WE JUST NOTED IT HERE EXACTLY HOW DAVID MENTIONED IT. FIVE, UM, SIX, SEVEN, AND EIGHT. WE'RE ALSO HAPPY TO COMPLY WITH AND OR HAVE SUBMITTED REQUESTED DOCUMENTATION. I DON'T FEEL NECESSARILY THE NEED TO GO THROUGH EACH SLIDE IN DETAIL, BUT OUR SITE PLAN, THIS IS JUST SHOWING KIND OF THE ADJUSTMENTS INCLUDING TWO NEW DETENTION PONDS AND THE NORTHEAST, AND THEN IN KIND OF THE CENTRAL, CENTRAL EAST LOCATIONS OF THE SITE, WHICH MAYBE, UH, RYAN CAN GIVE JUST A BRIEF DESCRIPTION ON. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY STORMWATER IS A BIG CONCERN FOR THIS SITE. UM, OVERALL THE SITE DOES NOT IMPACT AS FAR AS EVERYTHING THAT IS DRAINING TO THE SAIA. UH, BUT FOR MORE SITE SPECIFIC CONCERNS, WE WENT AHEAD AND DESIGNED A DETENTION PA TWO DETENTION PONDS TO MITIGATE THE INCREASES IN RUNOFF AS A RESULT OF THE IMPERVIOUS COVER OF THE SITE. SO RIGHT HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OR THE, UM, EXISTING DRAINAGE AREA MAP AND THE [02:10:01] PROPOSED DRAINAGE AREA MAP. THE CODE STATES THAT WE CANNOT INCREASE ANY RUNOFF TO, TO THE ASAKIA. SO UNDER CURRENT CONDITIONS, UM, OSS ONE, E TWO AND E THREE ALL DRAINED TOWARDS TRAIL STREET AND THE ASCIA. UNDER PROPOSED CONDITIONS ONLY P THREE DIRECTLY GOES TO TRAIL STREET, AND THEN OSS ONE AND P TWO ARE DETAINED AT OR BELOW THE EXISTING FLOW RATE. THAT IS THE ASSIA IS CURRENTLY SEEING. AND AS OF RIGHT NOW, THE PONDS ARE GONNA BE CONCRETE SIDE SIDING WITH SOME TYPE OF FACADE TO, UH, GO ALONG WITH THE, UM, THE BUILDINGS. UM, DAVID MENTIONED ANOTHER OPTION THAT WE'VE ALSO ENTERTAINED, WHICH IS, UH, SOME LID COMPONENTS IN ADDITION OR IN COMBINATION WITH THE DETENTION PONDS. SO AGAIN, LIKE DAVID MENTIONED, IT'S A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS THAT WE'RE STILL CRUNCHING THROUGH, BUT THE DETENTION PONDS THAT WERE SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE, UM, PACKAGE ARE DUE FUNCTION. THEY REDUCE THE PEAK RUNOFF FROM THE SITE, UH, WITH NO INCREASES DOWNSTREAM TO TRAIL STREET OR THE EC. THANK YOU, RYAN. UM, JUST AGAIN, SHOWING OUR SITE PLAN. THESE ARE OUR UPDATED ELEVATIONS IN WHICH THE WINDOW SPACING HAS ALL BEEN, UM, MADE CONSISTENT THROUGHOUT EACH TYPE OF GROUPING. ALSO, ALIGNMENTS WHERE, UM, NECESSARY OR NEEDED. THESE ARE OUR WINDOW DETAILS, AGAIN, SHOWING THAT WE ARE MEETING THE STIPULATION FOR THE DEPTH REQUIREMENT, WHETHER THIS IS AN ALUMINUM WINDOW OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD. AGAIN, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE SAYING THAT WITH AN ALUMINUM WINDOW, WE INTEND TO MEET THIS STIPULATION OF DEPTH AND INSTALLATION. THESE ARE SOME SHOTS OF AN ALUMINUM WINDOW. THESE ARE SOME UPDATED PERSPECTIVES THAT NOW INCORPORATE THE PORCH CHANGES. YOU CAN SEE IN PARTICULAR ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THIS KIND OF FIRST CLOSE UNIT HERE, OR A ZOOM IN IN THIS LOCATION. THE DOUBLE COLUMNS AGAIN WOULD BE WOOD WITH A BRICK PLANTER TO KIND OF WORK WITH THE SLOWER PORTION OF THE UNIT, UM, AND THE DEPTH NEEDED FOR A PLANTER. ANOTHER SHOT LOOKING BACK ALONG TRAIL STREET WHERE YOU CAN SEE, UM, THE PORCHES AS THEY'RE COMING INTO THE YARDS. UM, AWNINGS ON THIS KIND OF FRONT FACING UNIT HERE OR BACK FACING. AND THEN ON WE SATCH ALSO, THESE ARE LANDSCAPE PLANS THAT, UH, WE, I THINK WE SHOWED LAST TIME AS WELL. THESE ARE JUST TO SHOW KIND OF THE CONCEPTUAL IDEAS ABOUT HOW WE WANT THIS PROJECT TO BE KIND OF UNDERSTOOD AND REALIZED. THESE ARE KIND OF THESE IDEAS OF DIFFERENT POCKET PARKS THAT HAPPEN WITHIN THE COMMUNITY SPACES. KIND OF SMALL INTIMATE SCALE POOL PRINT SHOT. I THINK THAT THAT IS ALL WE HAVE FOR RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU TO WHOEVER ORGANIZED THIS SPEAKING LIST FOR ME. IT'S VERY HELPFUL. UM, RALEIGH WOOD, UH, MR. WOOD RECEIVED SIX MINUTES. KIM WOOD HAS YIELDED HER TIME. OH, GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. MY NAME'S RALEIGH WOOD, I LIVE AT 1 0 9 LINDELL IN THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD. AND UH, TODAY I'D LIKE TO PRESENT SOME OF THE AREAS OF CONCERN THE NEIGHBORS HAVE THAT WE BELIEVE, UH, NEED TO BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO FINAL APPROVAL. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO GO OVER FOUR AREAS RELATED TO THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES. UH, TRIED TO PRESENT THEM, IF YOU CAN READ THEM UP THERE ON THE BOARD. THE FIRST IS RELATES TO SCALE AND MASS. UM, IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, THE HEIGHTENED SCALE OF NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT EXCEED THAT OF A MAJORITY OF THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS BY MORE THAN ONE STORY. AGAIN, A MAJORITY OF THE BUILDINGS IN RIVER ROAD ARE ONE STORY AND A MAJORITY OF THE BUILDINGS ON THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT ARE THREE STORIES. UH, WE SUPPORT THE STAFF'S FINDING THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL THAT ALL BUILDINGS ON TRAIL STREET SHOULD BE TWO STORY IN REGARD TO LOT COVERAGE. UM, NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH ADJACENT HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN TERMS OF THE BUILDING TO LOT RATIO, LIMITING THE BUILDING'S FOOTPRINT FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION TO MORE, NO MORE THAN 50% OF THE TOTAL LOT AREA. UH, THE STAFF REPORT THAT THE PROJECT EXCEEDS 50% OF LOT COVERAGE. WE BELIEVE THAT THE PROJECT COVERS TOO MUCH OF THE SITE IS INCONSISTENT WITH [02:15:01] LIFE LOT COVERAGE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IN TURN WILL CONTRIBUTE TO THE DAMAGING STORMWATER RUNOFF INTO THE SIA UH, TREES. UH, THE GUIDELINES STATE THAT PRESERVATION TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT, UH, FROM DAMAGE EXISTING MATURE TREES AND HERITAGE TREES. UH, THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO REMOVE 11 SIGNIFICANT AND HERITAGE TREES AND PRESERVE FOR SIGNIFICANT AND HERITAGE TREES. WE BELIEVE THIS IS EXCESSIVE GIVEN THE UNIQUE PARK-LIKE SETTING OF THE SITE. AND FINALLY, IN TERMS OF DESIGN AND CHARACTER, GARAGE DOORS, UH, GARAGE DOORS WITH SIMILAR PROPORTIONS AND MATERIALS, AS THOSE TRADITIONALLY FOUND IN THE DISTRICT, UH, SHOULD BE USED. STAFF REPORT. THE PROPOSED FRONT LOADED GARAGES ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THOSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH ARE PRIMARILY, UH, DETACHED, UH, STRUCTURE REAR STRUCTURES. UH, THIS IS CITED AS A REASON FOR STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TODAY, THAT FINAL APPROVAL NOT BE GRANTED AND WE SUPPORT STAFF'S FINDINGS. UM, IN REGARDS TO, AND THIS IS THE, THE IMPORTANT AREA OF, UM, STORMWATER RUNOFF. UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD MET WITH SAN ANTONIO RIVER AUTHORITY, UH, GENERAL MANAGER, SUZANNE SCOTT, AND RIVER AUTHORITY STAFF. THEY REPORTED, AND THAT WAS APPROXIMATELY A WEEK AGO. THEY REPORTED THEY HAD MET WITH THE, UH, APPLICANT'S DESIGN TEAM, UH, PRIOR TO THE AUGUST H D R C MEETING. AND THIS WAS DESCRIBED AS AN INFORMAL PRELIMINARY CONSULTATION REGARDING IDEAS FOR LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT TO ADDRESS STORMWATER DRAINAGE. UH, SARAH STAFF STATED THAT THEY SUGGESTED THE USE OF PERMEABLE PAVERS AND A POSSIBLE NEED TO REDUCE UNITS ON THE SITE TO ALLOW FOR BIO RETENTION AREAS TO SLOW WATER DOWN. SARAH STA STAFF STATED THAT, UH, THE MEETING WITH THE APPLICANT'S TEAM SHOULD NOBODY IN NO WAY BE CONSTRUED TO AS AN APPROVAL OF ANY LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT PLAN, AS NO DESIGNS OR CALCULATIONS WERE PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT FOR REVIEW. ACCORDING TO SARAH, ALL DRAINAGE FROM THE SITE NEEDS TO BE MITIGATED, EVEN THOUGH WATER RUNNING OFF THE SITE TODAY IS A NON-COMPLIANT CONDITION, THE APPLICANT HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO MEET THE CITY'S RULE. NO WATER FROM THE SITE IS TO GO INTO THE ASAKIA. AND WE, I GUESS, BELIEVE THAT TODAY THAT THE, THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSALS ARE NOT WELL AS WELL FORMULATED AS WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN ORDER FOR A FINAL APPROVAL TO BE GIVEN A RELATED CONCERN. THE CITY, I BELIEVE, AND YOU COULD CHECK WITH THE, UH, APPLICANT IS REQUIRING THE APPLICANT TO INCREASE THE WIDTH OF WE SAT STREET BY FIVE FEET ALONG THE LENGTH OF THE SITE, AND TO INCREASE THE LENGTH, THE WIDTH OF TRAIL STREET BY THREE FEET ALONG THE WIDTH OF THE SITE. UH, WE BELIEVE THAT THIS ADDITIONAL EIGHT FEET OF STREET SURFACE WILL INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF STORM WATER RUNOFF REQUIRING MITIGATION, WHICH TO THIS POINT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S BEEN CONSIDERED BY THE APPLICANT, BUT WE THINK THAT THIS IS ANOTHER AREA THAT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED PRIOR TO FINAL APPROVAL BEING GIVEN. FINALLY, IN CONCLUSION, WE BELIEVE THAT THE SITE AS IT IS TODAY IS JUST TOO BIG. WE BELIEVE THE SITE AND THE MASS OF THE SITE CONTRIBUTES TO THE RISK, UH, FOR THE ASAKIA. AND THEN WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT STEPS FOR MITIGATION AT THIS POINT ARE UNCLEAR AND NEED TO BE FURTHER FORMULATED BEFORE FINAL APPROVAL BE GIVEN. UH, IT'S REQUESTED THAT FINAL APPROVAL BE DENIED UNTIL THESE CONCERNS CAN BE ADDRESSED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, JOHN HERTZ. MR. HERTZ RECEIVES NINE MINUTES. GEORGE NASH AND DONNA MARTIN HAVE YIELDED THEIR TIME. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS JOHN HERTZ, 1 25 ANASTASIA PLACE. THIS [02:20:01] IS A PROPERTY THAT'S RIGHT ACROSS THE ASAKIA FROM THE PARCEL THAT'S, UM, UNDER CONSIDERATION TODAY. I DON'T KNOW, UM, IF ALL OF YOU KNOW RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD, I MEAN PHYSICALLY, PERHAPS, BUT NOT THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. THIS IS THE SECOND OLDEST NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IN THE CITY. WE TAKE SERIOUSLY OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THE PORTION OF THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER THAT'S STILL IN ITS NATURAL STATE, IT'S THE LAST REMNANT IN THE CORE OF SAN ANTONIO THAT HASN'T BEEN REDEVELOPED. UM, WE'VE WORKED TO KEEP HOUSES IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT CONTRIBUTE FROM BEING DEMOLISHED. WE'VE WORKED TO TRY TO KEEP, UM, INAPPROPRIATE PROJECTS FROM BEING CONSTRUCTED, BUT WE ARE NOT AGAINST DEVELOPMENT. WE HAVE BUILT NEW HOMES, WE HAVE REMODELED HOUSES, WE HAVE RESTORED HOUSES, WE HAVE DONE ADDITION TO HOUSES. WE SUPPORT AN APPROPRIATE PROJECT FOR THAT PROPERTY. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE PROJECT. THIS PROJECT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IF IT WAS SITTING ON THE BROADWAY CORRIDOR OR DOWN AT THE PEARL. THIS PROJECT IS TOO BIG, IT'S TOO MASSIVE. IT'S ARCHITECTURALLY INAPPROPRIATE. WE DON'T HAVE MAN SERVE ROOFS. WE DON'T HAVE ROOFS WITH PITCHES THAT ARE DESIGNED FOR 10 FEET OF SNOW. THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD OF BUNGALOWS. THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD OF CRAFTSMAN STYLE HOUSES. THE TYPICAL HOUSE IS 16 FEET TALL AT ITS PEAK, NOT 36 FEET TALL AT ITS PEAK. WOULD YOU MIND? OH, I CAN DO THIS. THANK YOU. SO THE DENSITY IS A REAL ISSUE. THIS USED TO BE EIGHT LOTS WITH EIGHT HOUSES, ABOUT 7,000 SQUARE FEET OF CONSTRUCTION. IT IS NOW GOING TO HAVE 70,000 SQUARE FEET OF STR CONSTRUCTION ON IT. THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE INCREASE. THE BUILDING FOOTPRINT IS TOO EXCESSIVE. I MEAN, IT EVEN EXCEEDS THE 50% LIMIT THE SCALE. 95% OF THE HOUSES IN RIVER ROAD ARE ONE STORY. NO BUILDING EXCEEDS TWO STORIES. 90% OF THE PRO OF THE UNITS IN THIS PROJECT ARE THREE STORIES. THERE'S JUST SUCH A GAP BETWEEN WHAT'S BEING BUILT AND WHAT EXISTS, WHAT EXISTS. IT'S APPALLING. AND LOOK, THE INTERIOR GUIDELINES, DEPARTMENT INTERIOR GUIDELINES, WHICH I THINK ARE FUNDAMENTAL TO THE O H P AND TO THIS, UM, BODY STATE VERY CLEARLY THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE MAJORITY OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS BY WAR. THE ONE STORY AND EVEN, UM, U D C NOTES THAT PROJECTS THAT ARE BUILT SHOULD BE RELATED TO THE SCALE OF WHAT'S THEIR EXISTING. I COULDN'T LIST ALL OF THE TIMES I NOTICED THE, UH, APPLICANT TALKED ABOUT IT, THAT YOU HAVE MET, OR THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE HAS MET. AND EVERY TIME THE SAME THING IS SAID. IT'S TOO TALL, IT'S TOO DENSE, THE UNITS SHOULD BE REDUCED IN SIZE, BUT NOTHING HAPPENS. IT'S THE SAME PROJECT, THE SAME 24 UNITS, BASICALLY THE SAME THREE STORY DEVELOPMENT. NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN ALL OF THESE MEETINGS WITH US, AND NOTHING HAS CHANGED WITH ALL THE MEETINGS WITH YOU. THIS PROJECT IS JUST GOING FORWARD AS IT'S ALWAYS BEEN CONCEIVED. SURE, SOME DETAILS HAVE CHANGED. I JUST WANNA SHOW YOU ABOUT SCALE. HERE IS THE DRAWING ON SATCH, AND THERE ARE THE TWO HOUSES THAT ABUT IT. YOU COULD SEE THIS THING IS JUST, IT'S THE GOLIATH AND DAVID, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST WAY OUT OF SCALE. THIS PROJECT FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, I EVEN DID SOME DRAWINGS TRYING TO SEE THE SHADOW THAT THIS BUILDING WOULD PROJECT. I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE LAWS IN SAN ANTONIO, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES ABUTTING ONE ANOTHER, EVEN IN CLOSE PROXIMITY, THE SHADOW DOES NOT, UM, PERTURB. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A THREE STORY BUILDING, 36 FEET HIGH, SITTING NEXT TO A ONE STORY BUILDING FROM MARCH, FROM SEPTEMBER THROUGH MARCH, THIS, THESE HOUSES WILL BE IN SHADOW IN THE MORNING UP UNTIL ABOUT 10 O'CLOCK. THAT I THINK POINTS FURTHER TO THE INAPPROPRIATENESS OF THE SCALE. NOW, THE ONE THING THAT HAPPENED WAS IT WAS AGREED THAT THE, UM, NUMBER SIX, UH, BUILDING NUMBER SIX, WE REDUCED THE TWO STORIES. AND HERE'S WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE AT THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN. THREE UNITS IN BUILDING FIVE, UM, FIVE UNITS IN BUILDING SIX. BUT WHAT DID THE DEVELOPER DO? WELL, THE DEVELOPER DECIDED TO SWITCH THOSE AND [02:25:02] ONLY REDUCED THREE OF THE BUILDING, UH, THREE OF THE UNITS, BECAUSE BUILDING SIX SUDDENLY BECAME A THREE UNIT BUILDING. THIS IS WHAT IT REALLY SHOULD LOOK LIKE. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL HAS ANY, UM, GUIDANCE, IT SHOULD HAVE FIVE UNITS THAT ARE TWO STORIES TALL, AND THIS WOULD MITIGATE GREATLY THE EFFECT OF THIS OVERSCALED PROJECT ON TRAIL STREET. YOU KNOW, THIS BUILDING RIGHT HERE THAT WE'RE IN IS NOT EVEN 36 FEET HIGH. I HOPE. WHEN YOU WALKED IN THE DOOR, YOU THOUGHT, IMAGINE THIS BUILDING TELEPORTED TO THIS SITE IN THE MIDDLE OF RIVER ROAD. YOU WOULD AGREE. IT'S TOTALLY OUT OF SCALE. I KNOW THE, THE ARCHITECT HAS TALKED ABOUT, AND ACTUALLY SOME OF YOU ON ON THE COMMISSION HAVE MENTIONED, UM, HAVE COMPLIMENTED THE ARCHITECTS ABOUT, UM, HIDING THE, THE, THE VOLUMINOUS NATURE OF THE BUILDING BY PUTTING IN THIS MANSARD ROOF. BUT HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY? YOU CAN PUT A LIPSTICK ON A PIG, BUT IT'S STILL A PIG. WELL, YOU CAN PUT A MANSARD ROOF ON A THREE STORY BUILDING. IT'S STILL A THREE STORY BUILDING. IT'S STILL 36 FEET TALL IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THE BUILDINGS ARE WHERE 16 TO 18 FEET TALL. IT'S TOTALLY OUT OF PROPORTION FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND SHOULD NOT BE APPROVED. AND THEN HERE'S THE ARGUMENT THAT THE, UM, DEVELOPER MADE THE LAST TIME HE WAS HERE ABOUT WHY HE ONLY, WHY HE HAD TO FLIP BUILDING FIVE AND SIX. HE SAID THE HAMMERHEAD, UM, DROVE, UH, THIS DECISION. WELL, IT TURNS OUT THAT THE CODE REQUIRES THAT THE HAMMERHEAD IS WITHIN 150 FEET OF THE DEAD END OF TRAIL. THE LOT ITSELF IS ONLY 195 FEET. SO ANY POINT ALONG, BASICALLY THE LENGTH OF THE LOT THAT HAMMERHEAD COULD OCCUR. MATTER OF FACT, WHERE IT IS NOW, IT'S BASICALLY 60 FEET FROM THE END OF THE V. IF THEY DID THE PROJECT WHERE THE BUILDING SIX STILL WAS OF FIVE UNITS, IT WOULD ONLY BE 80 FEET FROM THE END OF THE, UH, THE END OF THE STREET. WELL, WITHIN THE, UM, CODE REQUIREMENTS. FINALLY, I WANNA CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE, WHICH IS THAT IN THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN, THE PROJECT WAS PRESENTED WITH NO WINDOWS TO THE EAST AND WEST. AND NOW IN THE FINAL DESIGN, THERE ARE WINDOWS IN THIS THREE STORY BUILDING THAT LOOK DOWN INTO THE NEIGHBORS. AND SOME OF THEM LOOK DOWN INTO MY HOUSE, SOME OF THEM LOOK INTO LARRY HAR CLARK'S HOUSE. SOME OF THEM LOOK INTO THE HOUSES OF OUR PRIVACY IS BEING STOLEN BY THE SHEER SCALE OF THIS. IF THESE WERE ONE OR TWO STORY BUILDINGS, IT WOULDN'T BE AS CRITICAL. BUT SINCE THEY'RE SO TALL, WE'VE LOST ALL OF OUR PRIVACY. THIS ISN'T RIGHT. SO WE'RE, OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS CONVINCED THAT THIS PROJECT IS NOT APPROPRIATE AND THAT THERE IS MUCH THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE IT APPROPRIATE. AND WE ARE ASKING YOU NOT TO, WELL, TO DENY A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BECAUSE THIS AIN'T APPROPRIATE. THANK YOU. NEXT IS PATRICIA PRATCHETT. MS. PRATCHETT RECEIVED SIX MINUTES. LUCY WILSON HAS YIELDED HER TIME. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS PATRICIA PRATCHETT AND I LIVE AT 7 33 ON, IN THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD. I WAS DRAWN TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD FIVE YEARS AGO BECAUSE OF THE RIVER, BUT ALSO BECAUSE OF THE BEAUTIFUL CANOPY OF TREES. OUR GOAL HERE TODAY IS NOT TO ALLOW FINAL APPROVAL FOR THIS PROJECT UNTIL ALL OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT ARE ADDRESSED APPROPRIATELY. PROJECT IS NOT READY FOR FINAL APPROVAL. NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION HAS PRESENT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO THIS COMMISSION. THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS SITE ARE NOT CAUSED BY ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE DESIGN AND THE DENSITY, WHICH IS BEING PROPOSED. [02:30:05] MANY OF OUR ISSUES HAVE ALWAYS CONCERNED TREES, AND WE FEEL LIKE TREES HAVE NOT DESERVED THE ATTENTION THAT THEY MERIT. TREES DEFINE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY'RE A HUGE EXISTING TREES, HISTORIC TREES, HERITAGE TREES ON THIS PROPERTY. ONE OF THEM PICTURED HERE IS 56 INCHES WIDE IN DIAMETER. IT IS, UM, A LIVE OAK AND WE ESTIMATE THAT IT'S PROBABLY 200 YEARS OLD AND IT WILL BE CUT DOWN. THIS IS WHAT RIVER ROAD LOOKS LIKE. WE LIVE IN PARADISE. THERE'S A, THERE'S A NICE BROAD VIEW OF WHAT RIVER ROAD LOOKS LIKE. LOOK AT THE, WHAT DO YOU SEE? YOU DON'T SEE HOUSES, YOU SEE TREES. THIS IS WHAT THE SITE LOOKS LIKE TODAY. AND WE LOST, UNFORTUNATELY IN THAT RED CIRCLE IS A PECAN, WHICH CAME DOWN RECENTLY IN A STORM. BUT THE REST OF THE, OF THE LOT IS REALLY COMPLETELY COVERED BY TREES. CONTRAST THAT WITH THIS PICTURE. AND, UM, MOST OF THE TREES ARE GONE. WE HAVE A LOT OF IMPERVIOUS COVER AS A RESULT. THIS SHOWS YOU THE PROPOSED TREE REMOVAL. UM, A FEW TREES, AND I'M GONNA SPEAK ABOUT THOSE ARE GOING TO BE RETAINED. UM, BUT BASICALLY 493 INCHES OF TREES ARE RE REQUIRED FOR MITIGATION AND A HUNDRED INCHES ARE BEING PROVIDED. THE RED CIRCLES REPRESENT ALL OF THE TREES, INCLUDING THAT NICE BIG OAK THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE. UM, THESE ARE ALL THE TREES THAT ARE GOING TO BE REMOVED. AND THIS SLIDE SHOWS YOU THE TREES THAT ARE GOING TO BE RETAINED. UH, THE ARROWS ARE POINTING TO AREAS OF GREAT CONCERN FOR THE EXIST, THE CONTINUED EXISTENCE OF THESE TREES. EACH OF THEM WILL BE COMPROMISED BY CONSTRUCTION. BUILDINGS ARE VERY CLOSE TO THE TREES. PHIL AND CONSTRUCTION WILL HAVE A BIG IMPACT. LET'S ENLARGE THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT. IF YOU LOOK ON THE TOP LEFT, YOU'LL SEE THAT ON, UH, WESTAT STREET, THERE IS A, UM, A 26 INCH HERITAGE BALL CYPRUS AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER, AND THE CONSTRUCTION IS RIGHT UP AGAINST IT. HOW DO YOU BUILD A THREE STORY BUILDING WITHOUT SCAFFOLDING, BOBCATS, ET CETERA? THAT'S REQUIRED IN THAT ZONE. IT'S, IT, IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN. AND THEN IF YOU MOVE DOWN TO THE BOTTOM TO YOU MOVE DOWN TO TRAIL STREET, YOU'RE GONNA SEE TREES THERE, UH, WITH A FOOT OF FILL DIRT ON THEIR ROOTS AND DRIVEWAYS AND CONSTRUCTION WITHIN SEVEN FEET OF THEIR TRUNKS. AGAIN, THESE TREES ARE SEVERELY COMPROMISED AND ONE OF THE MOST, OR ANOTHER VERY CONCERNING THING IS ALONG THE, UH, TRAIL THAT'S GOING TO BE BUILT, THE WALKING TRAIL. UM, HERE WE HAVE A, THESE ARE, AGAIN, ALL OF THESE ARE THE TREES TO BE RETAINED. UH, THIS IS A 24 INCH HERITAGE PECAN NEXT TO THE GARDEN. THE PROPOSED PATH REQUIRES EXCAVATION AND THE PLACEMENT OF GRAVEL MATERIAL OVER THE ROOT ZONE. IN ADDITION, THERE IS A PROPOSED ATTENTION POND THAT MAY TAKE A LARGE PART OF THAT TREE AS WELL. THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO BUILD VERY CLOSE TO THIS TREE AND ALSO CONSTRUCT A RETAINING WALL TO DIVERT DRAINAGE RIGHT THROUGH THE ROOT ZONE RIGHT UP TO THE TRUNK. SO NOW WE SEE THE CONSTRUCTION ALONG WITH THE TREES. YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S REALLY NOT MUCH PROTECTION. UM, FOR, FOR THE ROOT ZONE OF THESE, OF THESE HERITAGE TREES. THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED A TREE INVENTORY, BUT WE REALLY DON'T AGREE THAT THESE TREES WILL BE PRESERVED OVER THE LONG TERM. EVEN DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE, THEY ARE AT RISK. TREES HAVE REALLY BEEN GIVEN SHORT SHRIFT IN, UH, THIS WHOLE PROCESS, AND THAT'S WHY WE WERE BRINGING IT UP AGAIN TO YOUR ATTENTION. WE FEEL THAT THE TREES ARE SEVERELY COMPROMISED AND THE INTRUSION CAUSED BY CONSTRUCTION IS WITHIN TWICE THE ALLOWED DISTANCE REQUIRED AS A BARE MINIMUM STANDOFF DISTANCE. [02:35:05] HERE'S THE GRADING PLAN. I DON'T SEE ANY TREES, DO YOU? AND YES, NEW TREES ARE PROPOSED AND WILL BE PLANTED, I'M SURE, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY WON'T GROW FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. THAT'S TIME. WE DO NOT FEEL THAT THIS PROJECT IS READY FOR FINAL APPROVAL. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION. THANK YOU. THIS IS LARRY CLARK. MR. CLARK RECEIVES NINE MINUTES. JIM SMITH AND BETH WELLS HAVE YIELDED THEIR TIME. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON AND THANKS FOR ALL THAT YOU GUYS DO FOR WITH, UH, YOUR, YOUR SERVICE TO THE CITY. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. MY NAME'S LARRY CLARK AND UM, I LIVE AT 1 0 2 ALLISON ROAD, RIGHT ACROSS YIA FROM THIS PROJECT. AND I'M A PRACTICING LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT. I'VE BEEN PRACTICING FOR 35 YEARS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND HAVE DONE A LOT WITH RESPECT TO THE DESIGN OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND, UH, DRAINAGE AND OTHER PROJECTS. IN FACT, OUR OFFICE HELPED WRITE THE, UH, SAN ANTONIO RIVER AUTHORITIES, UH, GUIDELINES FOR LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT. AND, UH, I THINK WE'RE PRETTY EXPERT IN THESE AREAS. AND I'M NOT JUST A RAVING LUNATIC NEIGHBOR. NOT THAT ANYONE ELSE HERE IS. UH, OH. WE GOT IT. THANKS. UM, SO FULL DISCLOSURE, I WAS HIRED ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO FOR THIS PROJECT BY DAVID MORON. AND I RESIGNED FROM THE PROJECT AFTER REALIZING WE WEREN'T REALLY GETTING ANYWHERE. WE WEREN'T HAVING ANY HEADWAY WITH BENEFICIAL IMPACT TO THE DESIGN OF THIS PROJECT FROM A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURALS COMPONENT. AND IT WAS WELL OVER A YEAR AGO THAT I ADVISED DAVID AND FRANK AND OTHERS ON THE TEAM THAT THERE WERE HUGE CONSTRAINTS ON THIS PROPERTY THAT HAD TO DO WITH DRAINAGE, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH, AND TREES AND A YEAR LATER ISSUES HADN'T BEEN ADDRESSED AND WE WENT OUR WAYS. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THIS SITE IS ADJACENT TO THE UPPER LABORA SEIA. UM, AND THIS WAS DUG IN 1776 AND BROUGHT WATER FROM THE RIVER TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO SERVE, UH, FARM, UH, PROPERTIES IN THE AREA. UM, FURTHERMORE, THERE'S NO STORM WATER INFRASTRUCTURE DOWNSTREAM FROM THIS SITE. AND THIS SITE TOUCHES THE PARK AND THAT, UH, TOUCHES THE RIVER. SO WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF OUR HISTORY, THE SPANISH COLONIAL HISTORY AND THE ASAKI. AND WE'VE REALLY DONE A LOT TO TRY TO IMPROVE THE CONDITIONS AND TO RECOGNIZE THE ASAKI AS A KEY PART OF OUR LANDSCAPE. SO THE U D C STATES THAT ASAKIA SHALL NOT BE USED FOR DRAINAGE PERIOD. UM, THIS HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP MANY TIMES AND WE'VE REVIEWED DRAINAGE IN THE AREA AND TRIED TO MITIGATE, UH, THE RUNOFF THAT GOES THROUGH THE ASAKIA MANY TIMES. UM, WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT IN DETAIL. AND THE LATEST SET OF PLANS, THOUGH ASKED BY THE COMMISSION FOR MORE DETAIL STILL DOES NOT SHOW WHAT THE APPLICANT INTENDS TO DO ABOUT DRAINAGE AND RUNOFF FOR STORMWATER. THERE'S NO RESOLUTION. THE APPLICANT'S PACKET HAS A COUPLE OF OPTIONS FOR DRAINAGE. THAT FLOW OF OFFSITE IS NOT INCREASED, BUT, AND THOSE BOTH INVOLVE WHAT WE CALL CEMENT PONDS, BIG DETENTION PONDS. BUT THAT EXISTING FLOW TODAY IS NON-COMPLIANT. THAT RUNOFF GOES INTO THE ASAKIA, THAT'S A NON-COMPLIANT CONDITION. IT'S ALSO ALLOWED, UH, IT'S NOT ALLOWED BY U D C TO CONCENTRATE ANY OVERLAND FLOW AND RELEASE IT DOWNSTREAM. YOU GOTTA FIND A NEW ROUTE. YOU'VE GOT TO, UH, PROVIDE, UH, A LOW POINT AND NOT CONCENTRATE FLOW ONTO YOUR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. THOSE ARE BOTH KEY PARTS OF DRAINAGE LAW. THEY'VE IGNORED THIS PROBLEM AND IT STILL HASN'T BEEN ADDRESSED. SO, AS RALEIGH SAID ONE DAY PRIOR TO THE LAST H D R C COMMISSION MEETING, UM, THEY MET WITH A RIVER AUTHORITY AND TRIED TO GET SOME IDEAS FOR HOW TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. WE THINK IT'S WAY LATE IN THE GAME TO DO THAT. THE, UH, FLOW, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT MAY REQUIRE SOMETHING LIKE A FOUR FOOT DEEP GRAVEL FILLED B M P RUNNING THROUGH THE ENTIRE SITE. UM, AND AS YOU WERE TOLD IN THE LAST COMMISSION MEETING, IT MIGHT BE FOUR INCHES OF GRAVEL. IT'S FOUR FEET OF GRAVEL UNDER THAT. THEY WERE ALSO ADVISED THAT THIS MAY REQUIRE REMOVING A UNIT OR TWO TO FIT THESE BMPS INTO [02:40:01] THIS SITE BY THE RIVER AUTHORITY. AND SARAH ENGINEERING STAFF SAID THEY'D BE GLAD TO MEET WITH THE APPLICANT TO FIND WAYS TO SOLVE THE ISSUE. BUT SARAH IS NOT A REGULATORY AGENCY, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS. AND THE MORE THE APPLICANT LOOKS AT THIS, THE MORE THEY'RE GONNA FIND THAT THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS THE IMPACT OF THIS IN THEIR SITE DESIGN, INCLUDING DENSITY. AND OF COURSE, WHAT THESE DETENTION PONDS AND OTHER STORAGE IS GONNA LOOK LIKE. UM, PUT A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL RENDERINGS FROM COMPUTER RENDERINGS. UM, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF REALLY UGLY DETENTION PONDS, AND I'VE DRAWN IN A LITTLE CEMENT POND HERE THAT SHOWS THAT THAT TREE'S GONNA GO AWAY. BUT, UM, FROM THE DRAWINGS, MY CONCERN IS THAT THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE AESTHETIC RESOLUTION THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY COME UP WITH ON THIS SITE. A TWO FOOT, FOUR INCH HIGH CONCRETE WALL THAT WE'RE NOW TOLD MAY BE FACED WITH SOMETHING, UM, PUSHED UP AGAINST THE PROPERTY LINE RIGHT ON THE STREET, ON THE HIGHEST VISIBILITY CORNER OF THE ENTIRE PROPERTY NEXT TO THE GARDEN, REALLY. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS JUST DOES NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE CHARACTER OF THE STREET OR THE PROPERTY OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE OTHER PROPOSED CEMENT POND IS A 75 FOOT LONG, 22 FOOT WIDE CONCRETE TANK WITHIN FIVE OR SIX FEET OF THE ASAKIA WITH A CONCENTRATED OUTFALL GOING INTO THE ASAKIA WITH A NEW 22 FOOT WIDE DRAINAGE EASEMENT AT THE LOW POINT. SO THAT'S WHAT'S NOW SHOWN ON THE DRAWINGS, BUT WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DESIGN IS. THE CALCULATIONS AND SECTIONS NEED TO BE DEVELOPED. UM, BUT SO IS THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THESE COMPONENTS. HOW DO THEY FIT WHAT MATERIALS ARE GONNA BE USED? CONCRETE WITH SOME TYPE OF FACADE IS A COMMERCIAL RESPONSE, NOT A RESIDENTIAL RESPONSE. SO FAR WHAT I SEE IS, UM, NOT LOOKING GREAT. SO IT'S VERY, UH, CIVIL ENGINEERED, TYPICAL SORT OF DETENTION POND. I THINK THAT THERE ARE OTHER EXAMPLES TO LOOK AT THAT COULD BE INCLUDED, INCLUDING NATURALIZING THE SITE, AVOIDING THE USE OF WALLS, INTEGRATING IT INTO THE PROJECT. NO FENCING. I HAVE A GREAT BIG RAIN GARDEN IN THE MIDDLE OF MY WALKWAY ON THE WAY OUT TO MY DRIVEWAY FUNCTIONS. GREAT. TAKES ALL THE WATER OFF MY SITE, PUTS IT INTO THE GROUND. THIS PROJECT COULD DO THE SAME THING THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. THE OTHER THING IS THE EX, THE ASSIA IS NOT JUST THE OPEN DITCH. IT EXTENDS ACROSS THE ENTIRE PROPERTY AND ACROSS TO THE NORTH, ACROSS THE EDGE OF THE PARK. EVEN IF YOU CAN'T SEE THE DITCH, THE ACTUAL ALIGNMENT, IT REALLY ISN'T KNOWN UNTIL BETTER ARCHEOLOGY IS DONE. WE WON'T KNOW. UM, I'VE LOOKED AT OLD MAPS, I'VE GOT A LOT OF THEM, AND IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE IT MOVES A LITTLE BIT TO THE WEST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER UNDERNEATH THIS DETENTION POND THAT WE JUST LOOKED AT. SO THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT PLAN WAS ALSO REQUIRED FOR THIS. AND I THINK THAT THAT HAS NOT BEEN, UH, UH, FLESHED OUT. WE NEED TO SEE WHAT ARCHEOLOGY IS GONNA BE DONE, BUT NO. SO NO INCREASE IN FLOW INTO THE ASAKI IS NOT A SUFFICIENT RESPONSE. THE APPLICANT'S GOTTA SHOW THIS COMMISSION HOW THEY INTEND TO ELIMINATE THE NON-CONFORMING DRAINAGE INTO THE ASAKIA. AND THEY MUST COMPLY WITH THAT. AND THIS COMMISSION NEEDS TO SEE WHAT THE IMPACT'S GONNA BE. SO THEY SAID, WE DON'T THINK THIS IS YOUR PURVIEW. WE THINK IT IS YOUR PURVIEW. WE SUBMIT THIS IS AN HISTORIC ISSUE FOR H D R C. THIS IS GONNA RUN INTO A SPANISH COLONIAL AIA. THAT'S THE HEART OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND IT'S BEEN A PRIMARY PART OF THE SITE CONDITIONS FROM THE START OF THIS PROJECT, AND IT'S BEEN IGNORED AND ONLY LOOKED AT WITHIN THE LAST FEW WEEKS. UM, THEY MAY NEED, THEY MAY NEED TO MAKE CHANGES IN THEIR SITE PLAN THAT ARE GONNA AFFECT, UH, THIS SITE IN A BIG WAY. WE LOVE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I'M GONNA DIE IN MY HOUSE ACROSS THE DITCH FROM THIS PROJECT. AND IF THIS PROJECT DOESN'T ADDRESS THIS, UM, IT REALLY IS GONNA BE IN A BIG IMPACT. I THINK THAT THIS IS, AGAIN, NOT A PRO, NOT A A, UH, PROBLEM OF THE SITE. IT'S A PROBLEM OF THE SITE DESIGN. AND NOW WE'VE GOT A SHORT FILM. IF YOU COULD RUN THAT. IT'S, I KNOW YOU GUYS LIKE MOVIES, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE A LITTLE SHORT FILL REAL QUICK. THIS IS, THIS IS A, THIS IS THE DITCH IN A RAIN. I'M NOT KIDDING ABOUT THE DRAINAGE. I KNOW THIS LOOKS LIKE IT WAS TAKEN WITH A POTATO, BUT IT, UM, THAT'S [02:45:01] 'CAUSE THE RAIN WAS COMING DOWN IN DROVES AND IT WAS ALL I COULD DO TO GET UP AND AROUND. BUT THIS IS THE WATER COMING OFF OF THE PARCEL TODAY WITH PERVIOUS COVER WITH GRASS. NOW IMAGINE 52% OF THAT SITE IS COVERED UP WITH ROOFS AND PAVING, AND LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF WATER THAT COMES OFF OF THAT. OTHER AREAS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THIS WATERSHED. YEAH, A LITTLE BIT. UM, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT TRAIL STREET, THERE'S A, IT'S LUCKY IT'S NOT AN AMBULANCE AT THE END OF TRAIL STREET. IT'S A, THERE'S A VAN AT THE END OF TRAIL STREET UP TO ITS FRONT BUMPER AND IT'S COMPLETELY UNDERWATER. UM, MR. CLARK, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR YOU. UM, WE CAN CONTINUE THE VIDEO IF SOMEBODY ELSE IS HERE TO YIELD TIME TO GEMMA. SHE HAS THREE MINUTES, UNLESS THERE'S SOMEBODY ELSE WHO HASN'T SIGNED IN YET. THANK YOU. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I THANK YOU. I'M JIM MCKEN FROM RIVER ROAD. I LIVE FACING THE RIVER AND WE FLOOD . WE IN A FLOODPLAIN WHEN WE STARTED TO WORK WITH THE DEVELOPERS. I LOVE THEM AND WE REALLY WANTED THIS PROPERTY TO WORK. WE REALLY DID. 'CAUSE SOMEBODY'S GONNA DEVELOP IT. AND WE WORKED WITH DAVID. I LOOK BACK AT ALL OUR NOTES. AND SINCE OUR FIRST MEETING, STORMWATER HAS BEEN ALWAYS ON THE LIST. DENSITY HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE LIST. WE HAVEN'T WAVERED. WE WORK WITH THEM YET. DRIVEWAYS. WHY DO WE WANT DRIVEWAYS ON TRAIL? IMPERVIOUS COVER? WE WANTED TO TRY TO REDUCE IMPERVIOUS COVER BY HAVING MORE DRIVEWAYS THROUGH THE PROPERTY. EVERYTHING WE DO IS TRYING TO MAKE THAT PROPERTY SAFE AND USABLE FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM ALL OF THESE, THEY, WE JUST FLOOD. AND THAT'S ALWAYS WHY STORMWATER IS NUMBER ONE WITH US. IT IS PART BECAUSE OF THE ASAKIA, BUT NOT ONLY THE ASAKIA, IT'S THE WATER THAT'S GONNA BE RUNNING OFF INTO THESE OTHER HISTORIC HOMES THAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT. THE SOBRANO HOUSE, WHICH IS FROM 1780. ALSO, THE WATER COMES DOWN TRAIL. THEY JUST BOUGHT TRAIL, THEY HAD EXPAND TRAIL. TRAIL IS NOW THEIRS DOWN ON THE LOWER END. AND I JUST WANNA SAY WE DID WORK WITH THE DEVELOPERS. WE'VE TRIED OUR BEST. WE REALLY HAVEN'T MOVED FROM OUR POSITION ALL ON THE DENSITY AND STORM WATER. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR CITIZENS OF YOUR HEART. UM, I DO WANNA POINT OUT WE DO HAVE, UM, JACOB POWELL, UH, T C I, STORMWATER STAFF HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS RELATED TO THAT ASPECT IF NECESSARY, APPLICANT COME BACK. AND, UM, IF YOU'D LIKE TO RESPOND TO SOME OF THE COMMENTS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AT, AT THIS POINT, I THINK WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY WANT TO RESPOND. THERE'S ALWAYS A NEW, THERE'S ALWAYS A NEW PRESENTATION THAT APPEARS. UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE GENTLEMEN SAID THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PUT LIPSTICK ON A PIG AND IT'S STILL A PIG. WELL, YOU CAN SAY YOU'RE FOR DEVELOPMENT AND STILL BE ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO ANY DEVELOPMENT. UH, I, I BELIEVE WE'VE BEEN HERE ENOUGH TIMES. WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE CITY ON ALL STORMWATER RELATED ISSUES. WE'VE BEEN WORKING DILIGENTLY AS WE CAN THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. WE'VE BEEN EXTREMELY TRANSPARENT TO THE NEIGHBORS. I THINK THEY ALL KNOW THAT. THEY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT. AND EVERY TIME WE GET UP HERE, WE GET A NEW, SOMETHING NEW THROWN IN OUR, OUR FACE. I HAVE A PRESENTATION READY ON A ZIP DRIVE THAT CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THESE ISSUES IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IT. I THINK IT'S UNNECESSARY. I'D RATHER NOT DO IT. I THINK WE SHOULD JUST MOVE ON. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. UM, THERE IS, UH, ON THE ARCHEOLOGY, UH, STIPULATION ONE IS THAT THE INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN COMPLETED, SO MAYBE YOU CAN TALK TO THAT. AND THEN IT ALSO SAYS ABOUT THE, UM, ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT YOU ALLOW THE DRAIN, IT DOES NOT DRAIN INTO THE ASA AGAIN. SO BY US KEEPING THAT STIPULATION, WHO WOULD BE THE ONE ENFORCING THAT? UM, SO I'M GONNA CALL OUR CITY ARCHEOLOGIST, MATT ALVERSON, TO RESPOND. SO THE ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN COMPLETED PER THE, UH, U D C, UH, RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT WORK WAS PURSUED TO, UH, IDENTIFY IF THE, UM, AS, AS [02:50:01] LARRY CLARK POINTED OUT, THE, UM, UNKNOWN PORTION OF THE ASAA IS WITHIN THE, THE PROPERTY FOOTPRINT. UM, AND IF IT IS EX EXTENT, WOULD IT BE IMPACTED BY THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT? THE ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION DID NOT IDENTIFY THE ASA UH, UH, WITHIN THE PROPERTY. SO IT'S LIKELY PROBABLY UNDERNEATH THE PROPERTY LINE, THE EASTERN BOUNDARY OF THE PROPERTY. UH, THE WORK WAS ALSO COMPLETED OR, OR PURSUED TO IDENTIFY ANY INTACT, UM, ARCHEOLOGICAL FEATURES THAT COULD BE WITHIN THE PROPERTY THAT, UH, SHOULD BE PRESERVED, UM, AND, UH, OR, OR, OR AVOIDED, UM, BEFORE THE, UH, DESIGN WAS TOO FAR ALONG. NOW, UH, AT, AT THIS POINT, THE ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN COMPLETED. UH, SO THAT STIPULATION HAS BEEN SATISFIED. SO WE HAD TO PAY AN ARCHEOLOGIST TO GO OUT THERE AND DIG TRENCHES AND DO A, AN ELABORATE STUDY BECAUSE WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE EARLY ON IN THE PROCESS THAT WE WEREN'T GONNA BE DISTURBING ANYTHING WITH HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE. IF WE WERE TO HAVE FOUND THE ASEC ON OUR SITE, WE WOULD'VE NEVER PURSUED THIS PROJECT OR EVEN COME THIS FAR. I APPRECIATE THAT. SO, UM, THE STIPULATION HAS BEEN MET, BUT IT DOES SAY ON THE STIPULATION IS MORE DEATH DOES NOT ALLOW DRAINAGE INTO THE, SO, UM, I MEAN IT IS PART OUR PURVIEW, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY OUR PURVIEW TO DESIGN OR, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPED A DRUMS DRAINAGE PLAN. BUT WHO WOULD ENFORCE IT? MAKING SURE THAT NO WATER DRAINS TO THE AS I MEAN THAT WOULD HAPPEN AT THE PLAN REVIEW LEVEL. AND SO JACOB, IF YOU WANNA RESPOND, MY NAME IS JACOB POWELL. I'M THE, UH, STORMWATER ENGINEERING MANAGER FOR T C I. UM, SO FIRST I WANNA CLARIFY WHAT T C I HAS REVIEWED SO FAR. AND THAT IS THE PLAT APPLICATION. UM, AND WE GENERALLY LOOK FOR ADVERSE IMPACTS DOWNSTREAM IN TERMS OF SAFETY. UM, AND SO FAR THE PROJECT HAS MET CODE SPECIFICALLY FROM THE PLATT. NOW WE HAVE NOW REVIEWED A BUILDING PERMIT, AND THAT'S WHERE WE GO THROUGH THE DETAILS OF EXACTLY HOW, WHICH PIECE IS DRAINED. WHERE, UM, THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE CODE THAT TALKS ABOUT DRAINING TO THE AS, UM, THE, THAT'S MORE, UM, IN THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION SIDE OF THE CODE. UM, SO THE, THE, THE SOLUTION HAS TO BE COORDINATED BY THE APPLICANT BETWEEN THE TWO DEPARTMENTS. UM, THAT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN A DRAINAGE AND A SEWER CONFLICT HAS TO BE COORDINATED BETWEEN US AND, AND SAWS. SO THERE, THERE CAN BE SOLUTIONS. UM, SO IT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL WORK TOGETHER WITH O H P TO, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT MEETS THE CODE. THANK YOU. SO, UM, I WAS ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS PRESENT AT THE D R C WHERE THEY PRESENTED THE TWO OPTIONS FOR THE DRAINAGE. I THINK YOU PRESENTED IT ACTUALLY MORE DETAIL THAN YOU DID TODAY. I WAS PRETTY PLEASED, UM, WITH BOTH OPTIONS. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, YOU'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, RIGHT? UM, AND I THINK NOW BY THIS ALSO CONFIRMING THIS INFORMATION, YOU WILL HAVE TO, IF SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF, WE DON'T, WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A WATER PROBLEM OR RAIN PROBLEM, BIG RAIN. SO, UM, THEN, UM, I'M JUST LOOKING AT THE STIPULATIONS AND, AND STAFF HAS ALREADY POINTED OUT WHICH ONES YOU'RE COMPLIANT WITH. AND I'M JUST GONNA, THE ONE THAT JUST, I AM A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED IF YOU'RE ACCEPTING OR NOT ACCEPTING IS THE WINDOW STIPULATION. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO MISCOMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN YOU AND STAFF AND THE STIPULATION. YEAH, SO I MEAN IT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S IN, I MEAN IT'S, WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH STAFF AND, UM, WHAT STAFF HAS COMMUNICATED THROUGH EMAIL IS THAT THE RECOMMENDATION FOR ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD WINDOWS IS, IS PUT IN PLACE BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THOSE WINDOWS ARE GONNA MEET CERTAIN SPECIFICATIONS IN TERMS OF THE INSTALLATION AND THE OVERALL LOOK. AND THEY SAID SINCE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE PROPOSING AN ALUMINUM, ALL ALUMINUM WINDOW, THEY'VE USED ALL ALUMINUM WINDOWS IN THE PAST, AS LONG AS IT MEETS THAT KIND OF SPECIFICATION, UM, IT, IT'S CONFUSING TO US. YOU KNOW, WE, WE DON'T, I'M, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, WE SAW THAT AS A STAFF STIPULATION AS WELL, BUT I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE EMAILED STAFF, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT AND WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING IS WE'RE NOT REQUESTING TO GO IN WITH SOME, YOU KNOW, RANDOM WINDOW. WE'RE, WE'RE JUST REQUESTING TO WORK WITH STAFF ON AN ALL ALUMINUM WINDOW, WHICH IT'S ALUMINUM ON THE OUTSIDE, ALUMINUM IN THE INSIDE WHERE THE OTHER ONE'S ALUMINUM ON THE OUTSIDE WOOD ON THE INSIDE, WHICH ISN'T REALLY SEEN BY THE, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WALKING BY THE PROPERTY. IT'S KIND OF AN INTERIOR CHOICE. UM, SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE, MAKE SURE OUR WINDOW WORKS AND, AND WE THINK, YOU KNOW, WE JUST WANNA WORK WITH STAFF ON A, AN APPROPRIATE WINDOW. HAVE YOU PROPOSED A WINDOW? I THINK I SAW A [02:55:01] WINDOW IN HERE. AND DOES IT MEET THE DIMENSIONAL REQUIREMENTS THAT, UH, WE HAVE? WE HAVE JUST AN EXAMPLE UP HERE. WE WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS, BUT WE FOUND NOTHING IN ANY OF THE THREE MANUFACTURERS WE'VE LOOKED AT THAT WON'T ALLOW IT TO INSTALL IN THIS WAY. AND I THINK WE FEEL STRONGLY THAT IF WE PROPOSE AN ALTERNATE PRODUCT THAT CAN'T BE INSTALLED THAT WAY, WE'RE HAPPY TO FOLLOW THE STIPULATION, NOT JUST THE INSTALLATION. IT'S ALSO THE PROFILE, THE OFFSET AT THE MEETING RAIL, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF, UH, WHY AN ALUMINUM PLA WOULD WOOD WINDOW WOULD COMPLY. AND NOT ALL ALUMINUM WINDOWS MAKE COMPLY. WILL STAFF COMMENT ON THE COMMUNICATION AS THE APPLICANT'S NOTED, WE HAVE AN ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW OR A WOOD WOOD WINDOW BECAUSE WE ARE PRETTY SURE THAT THAT'S GONNA MEET OUR STIPULATION WITHOUT THE APPLICANT GOING TO A PRODUCT REP AND SPECIFICALLY REQUESTING A CERTAIN PROFILE. UM, IF THE APPLICANT IS ABLE TO PRODUCE AN ALUMINUM WINDOW THAT MEETS WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR, UM, THEN STAFF CERTAINLY WILL TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. UH, IF THE APPLICANT'S NOT ABLE TO FIND THAT, THEN THE APPLICANT WOULD COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION AND THE COMMISSION WOULD NEED TO TAKE ACTION ON THE WINDOW THAT THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSED IF THEY AREN'T WILLING TO INSTALL A WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD WINDOW. SO THAT'S WHAT I WANNA MAKE SURE IS THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THAT STIPULATION IS AND GONNA BE THERE. AND I THINK, LIKE, I THINK COMMISSIONER, UH, FEDS TOUCHED A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT IS IF YOU MEET ALL THOSE, NOT ONLY THE, THE SETBACK OR THE RESET, I MEAN EVERYTHING THEN YES, STAFF COULD PROBABLY CONSIDER THAT. YEAH, WE JUST, WE JUST WANNA WORK WITH STAFF BECAUSE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR THAT IT WILL BE AN INTERIM CLAD WOOD WINDOW UNLESS, UNTIL YOU FIND SOMETHING SPECIFIC. YES. WELL, SO STAFF STIPULATION HAS NOT CHANGED. WE'RE STILL STIPULATING ALUMINUM CLAD WINDOW. SO IF THE COMMISSION APPROVES USE OF AN ALUMINUM WINDOW, THEN THOSE DETAILS CAN BE PRESENTED TO STAFF FOR A C O A AND I THINK WE WOULD BE FINE WITH DOING THAT. AND, AND IF STAFF AGREES ON IT AS WELL, LIKE IF, IF IT AGREES, IF THEY AGREE THAT IT MEETS THEIR SPECIFICATIONS AND THE SAME KIND OF LOOK, WE WOULD DEFINITELY BE OPEN TO DOING THAT. WE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REQUESTING. BACK TO THE DRAINAGE. UH, I WAS AT THAT LAST, UH, D R C MEETING WHERE Y'ALL PRESENTED THE, THE FLOWS AND THE, UH, RE RETENTION PONDS AND ALL THAT. AND, UM, AT THAT TIME Y'ALL WERE STILL STUDYING THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE STILL STUDYING THAT TO SEE WHICH OPTION, UH, YOU'RE GOING TO SUBMIT TO THE CITY. UM, THE FACT THAT THE TWO RETENTION PONDS OR DETENTION PONDS ARE SUCH PROMINENT FEATURES ON THE SIDE, ESPECIALLY THE ONE ON ATCH AND THE ONE ADJACENT WELL, AND THE ONE ADJACENT TO THE, UH, UH, ASAKIA, UH, THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE YET SEAL GIVES ME CONCERN, UH, LIKE MR. CLARK SAID, THERE'S WAYS TO DO DETENTION PONDS THAT, UH, COMPLIMENT THE, THE SITE AND THE, UH, THE PARK-LIKE SETTING, UH, AS OPPOSED TO, UM, MORE COMMERCIAL ASPECT WHERE YOU JUST HAVE CONCRETE WALLS AND, AND CHAIN LINK FENCES. YEAH, SO I, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE, UM, IMAGE THAT, UH, WAS SUBMITTED WILL NOT BE WHAT THE DETENTION POND WILL LOOK LIKE. I MEAN, THERE'S NO REAL, THERE'S NO REASON WE WOULD EVER DO THAT. THAT'S AN UGLY, AS UGLY AS IT GETS DRAWING OF A DETENTION POND. UM, WE'RE PLANNING TO HEAVILY SCREEN IT LANDSCAPE AND WE HAVE OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT TOO THAT'LL, THAT CAN SPEAK TO SORT OF THE AESTHETICS OF THE DETENTION POND. AND I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN BECAUSE IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT IS IN THE CORNER RIGHT THERE, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY'S CLEAR THAT THE IMAGES PRESENTED WERE THE UGLIEST LOOKING IMAGES I'VE EVER SEEN OF A DETENTION POND. AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA EVEN COME CLOSE TO RECOMMENDING. SO BEYOND THE, THE AESTHETICS OF THOSE THOUGH, ARE THESE STRUCTURES THAT YOU'RE IMAGINING ALL COMPLETELY ABOVE GROUND, ARE THEY GOING TO BE STRUCTURES THAT ARE REQUIRING EXCAVATION RIGHT NEXT TO THE ASAKIA? SO THE LOCATION WHERE THE PONDS ARE PROPOSED ARE OUTSIDE OF THE ENVELOPE, THE ALLOWABLE ENVELOPE OF THE ASAKIA. SO, UM, WE HAVE THE LIST OF, UM, ITEMS THAT WE WERE SPECIFICALLY TOLD TO ADHERE TO FROM UH, O H P. UM, WE IDENTIFIED HOW THEY'RE GONNA, HOW THE SEIA IS GOING TO BE PROTECTED. WE'VE IDENTIFIED HOW FAR AWAY A MINIMUM, UM, I BELIEVE OF THREE FEET FROM THE SEIA. SO WE'RE OUTSIDE OF THAT. UM, THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT THE TREE EARLIER. WE CAN MODIFY THE WALL TO GO AROUND THE TREE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE OUTSIDE OF THE, UM, R P Z FOR THE TREE. [03:00:01] UM, LET'S SEE, FENCING AROUND THE ASE, WHICH THIS SITE IS 1.003 ACRES. SO BEING OVER ONE ACRE, WE ARE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH STORM WATER POLLUTION PREVENTION MEASURES. SO WE'LL HAVE SILT FENCING, WE'LL HAVE OUR ROCK BERMS, UM, PREVENTING OR HELPING PREVENT RUNOFF FROM LEAVING THE SITE AND, UM, PUTTING DISCHARGE INTO THE ASEC OR TO THE GARDEN AREA. UH, TREES WILL HAVE TO BE PROTECTED. UM, THERE'S SEVERAL MEASURES THAT ARE GONNA BE IN PLACE THAT WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH BECAUSE WE'RE WITH, UM, AN OVER AN ACRE, BUT, SORRY, THE PULL PONDS WILL BE IN PARTIALLY IN THE GROUND ON ONE SIDE AND THEN EXPOSED ON THE DOWNHILL SIDE, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE A FINAL DESIGN FOR THAT PART. RIGHT. THE, THE SIDE WE HAVE FOR, SO OPTION ONE I BELIEVE WAS THE, THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL STRUCTURES OF THE POND. THOSE MEET CODE THAT THEY'RE DESIGNED. SO IF WE GO WITH OPTION TWO, WHICH WAS A COMBINATION LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT AND DETENTION, UM, MARRIAGE, UM, THAT'S NOT DESIGNED, BUT WHAT WE HAVE HERE MEETS CODE. BUT I THINK WHAT, WHAT SHE'S ASKING IS JUST THE MATERIAL OR KIND OF NO, THE MATERIAL AND THE WAY THAT IT'S SHAPED HAS NOT BEEN DESIGNED. I THINK WE'VE BEEN PUTTING ALL OF OUR EFFORTS AND JUST KIND OF GETTING THROUGH THE O H P REQUESTS THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH WITH STORMWATER. AND I THINK THAT ALL I, I GUESS MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THAT THE WAY IN WHICH WE HAVE LOOKED AT THIS PRODUCT AND THE WAY THAT WE'RE TREATING THE YARDS AND THE PORCHES AND THE COMMON AREAS, THIS WOULD ALL BE STILL IN LINE WITH THE SAME LOOK AND FEEL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DETENTION PONDS. WE CERTAINLY DON'T WANT MAYBE TO REASSURE, JUST TO CLARIFY, I MEAN YOU'RE ADDING THIS TO THE DESIGN IF YOU, YOUR FINAL PLAN, YOU KNOW, SHOWS THE OPTION TWO, IF YOU WERE TO CHANGE TO OPTION ONE, I HAD TO DO SOME KIND OF A WALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION RIGHT. AND GET THAT APPROVED. I'M NOT A CIVIL ENGINEER. I NEED A LITTLE HELP IN UNDERSTANDING, UH, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE. UH, IN TERMS THE, ON THE, THE DETENTION PONDS FIRST IN TERMS OF THEIR SCALE, UM, WHAT WAS USED TO DETERMINE KIND OF THE FOOTPRINT THAT'S NEEDED THERE OR, UH, AVAILABLE SPACE AND DISCHARGE POINT FROM THE SITE. SO WE COULD PUT 'EM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OPEN SPACE AREA, BUT THAT WOULDN'T BE CONDUCIVE TO DRAINAGE. UM, WE'D BE BYPASSING A LOT OF FLOW AND ACCEPTING FLOW FROM OFFSITE. SO BEST LOCATION FOR DETENTION PONDS IS ON THE LOW POINT OF THE SITE AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED CURRENTLY. EVERYTHING DRAINS FROM WEST TO EAST. AND WHAT'S THE DISCHARGE POINT THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING? WHERE IS, UM, UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE PROPOSING, UM, THREE, I THINK THEY'RE SIX INCH AND FOUR INCH ORIFICES. SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT A HOLE LIKE THIS, ROUGHLY THIS SIZE THREE ON EACH POND. AND SO THEY CAN BE SPACED OUT SO WE'RE NOT POINT DISCHARGING DOWN TO THE ASAKIA OR THE GARDEN AREA. UM, WE HAVE KIND OF ROCK RUBBLE, WHICH CAN ALSO BE MODIFIED TO BE MORE EYE APPEALING. UM, AN AESTHETIC FOR THE SITE TO GO ALONG WITH, UH, BE MORE COHESIVE WITH IT. OKAY. SO GIVE WITH THE, USE THE CURSOR AND ON, ON, UH, LET'S DO THE ARCHITECTURAL MAP 'CAUSE I CAN UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT BETTER. SHOW ME WHERE THOSE DISCHARGE POINTS MIGHT BE AND HOW THEY WOULD RELATE TO THE GROUND. PAGE THREE SIX, TELL A, TELL A IS ONE OF THEM. IT SHOWS A FOUR INCH, UM, AT 6 72 0.5, A FOUR INCH AT 6 73 0.5, WHICH IS A FOOT HIGHER AND THEN A SIX INCH AT 6 74. AND SO THESE CAN, THE LOCATION OF THESE CAN BE MANIPULATED ALONG, UM, A WIDER AREA IF WE NEED TO. UM, BUT THIS IS JUST TO SHOW THAT THAT'S HOW WATER WOULD BE CONVEYED OUT OF THE POND. IT'S GONNA BE A SLOW RELEASE. AND THEN THE OTHER POND IS VERY SIMILAR. I, I UNDERSTAND. I SUPPOSE MY QUESTION IS WHERE ON THE SITE PLAN, IF YOU GO TO SLIDE 36 WOULD BE A CONDUCIVE LOCATION FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS. AND, UH, WHAT IS THE ELEVATION ABOVE THE EXISTING GRADE ABOUT? UM, SO FOR THE NORTHERN POND, WE'VE GOT IT RIGHT IN THIS CORNER HERE GOING TOWARDS [03:05:01] SATCH, AWAY FROM THE GARDEN, AWAY FROM THE ASAKIA. AND THEN FOR THE SOUTHERN POND, RIGHT NOW IT'S PULLED BACK A LITTLE RIGHT HERE, BUT WE CAN SPACE IT OR MODIFY THE OPENING LOCATIONS. OKAY. FURTHER SPACED OUT. OKAY. UM, I GUESS I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. POWELL ABOUT THE DISCHARGE. UH, HOW, HOW THAT'S CONSIDERED. IS THAT CONSIDERED, UH, MEETING OUR CODE? SO WE WOULD HAVE TO WORK WITH O H P BECAUSE THE, I'LL ANSWER. OKAY. WELL WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT DISCHARGE INTO TIA, LIKE WE WOULD CONSIDER THAT NON-COMPLIANT AND SO WE'D HAVE TO LOOK FOR SOMETHING ELSE, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE APPLICANT HAS ACTUALLY SUBMITTED A FINAL PLAN FOR THIS AS WELL. I MEAN, YOU CAN, WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH THE APPLICANT OR I'LL BE REQUIRING THIS PRIOR TO APPROVAL. SO, UH, I WANT TO ADD TO THAT, UH, I DO AGREE. WE, WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT DI DISCHARGING DIRECTLY INTO THE SAFETY AS POINTED OUT BEFORE, THE SITE IS ALREADY NON-CONFORMING. SO THAT DOES COMPLICATE DE THE DESIGN. UM, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED DETAILED DESIGN AT THIS POINT FOR THOSE PONDS, UM, WHICH IS NORMAL FOR, FOR THIS PROCESS. I WOULD SAY, MR. POWELL, IT'S, IT'S, WE KNOW IT'S ALREADY NON-CONFORMING AND THERE IS RUNOFF GOING INTO THE SDA. UM, THE REQUIREMENT THAT THEY HAVE, I BELIEVE IS NOT, NOT TO PREVENT ADDING FURTHER RUNOFF, BUT ELIMINATING IS THAT ELIMINATING THE RUNOFF INTO THE ASQ? IS THAT CORRECT? SO FROM A, FROM AN ADVERSE IMPACT STANDPOINT OF A SAFETY, WE HAVE LOOKED TO MAKE SURE THEY WON'T BE ADDING RUNOFF DOWNSTREAM. UM, WE HAVE NOT LOOKED SPECIFICALLY YET AT HOW THE WATER OR IF THE WATER GOES INTO THE SAIA BECAUSE WITH THE PLAT, THE PLAT IS MORE OF A HIGH LEVEL REVIEW, WHICH IS WHAT HAS BEEN COMPLETED. SO I CAN'T SPEAK COMPLETELY ON THIS YET. SO WE HAVE VERIFIED WITH O H P EARLY ON DURING THE PLOTTING PROCESS, UM, WE VERIFIED THAT NO ADDITIONAL FLOW IS ALLOWED TO THE SAKE. YEAH, WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE 60 PLUS ACRES THAT'S UPSTREAM OF US AND THAT'S GOING THROUGH OUR SITE AS WELL THAT WE, WE CAN'T SOLVE A LARGE PROBLEM WITH OUR ONE ACRE SITE. ALL WE CAN DO IS MITIGATE FOR OUR INCREASES AND MEET THE CODE. FORGIVE ME, I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN, IN, UH, HOW THE ADDITIONAL RUNOFF, UH, WOULD BE CALCULATED. UH, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT WATER MAY BE MOVING ACROSS THE SITE, UH, BUT THE WATER THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH THE SITE IS CURRENTLY GOING INTO THE ZEKI NATURALLY IS CURRENTLY GOING INTO THE ASAKIA AND THE DESIGN THAT'S PRO PROPOSED CONTINUES TO DRAIN INTO THE ASAKIA AT ITS CURRENT RATE. IS THAT CORRECT? NO, NO. INCREASES INTO THE ASAKIA. A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IF, IF THAT, DOES THAT MEET THE LETTER OF OUR GUIDELINES? I GUESS THIS IS A QUESTION FOR O H P STAFF AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER IT NOW IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. NO, I THINK WE WOULD HAVE TO BETTER UNDERSTAND, UH, WHAT SOME OF THOSE OUTFLOW RATES ARE TO REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FULL IMPACTS ARE. AND I THINK, I THINK WHAT I'VE BEEN HEARING FROM, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP BY STAFF IS THAT IT'S NOT JUST YOUR OBLIGATION TO, YOU KNOW, NOT INCREASE, BUT IT'S ALSO YOUR OBLIGATION TO NEGATE THE IMPACT OF YOUR SITE BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE DEVELOPING IT, SPENDING MONEY THERE. YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO NEGATE THAT AS A PART OF THIS DEVELOPMENT. AND WHAT I'M KIND OF NERVOUS ABOUT IS HAD WE NOT HAD THESE, UM, DE YOU KNOW, UH, DETENTION PONDS IN PLACE IN THOSE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, THE SITE WOULD'VE ALL BEEN DRAINING TO THE ASAKIA NATURALLY JUST FILLING. YEAH. THE, THE SITE AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, UNIMPROVED DRAINS INTO THE ASEC. SO WE WERE GOING TO, WE HAVE TO PROVIDE DETENTION PONDS JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH A WHOLE OTHER PROCESS WITH THE CITY. UM, SO THOSE DETENTION PONDS, SOME KIND OF SOLUTION WAS GOING TO BE THERE BECAUSE THE CITY REQUIRES IT. NOW THE QUESTION WAS THE NEIGHBORS WERE UNCERTAIN 'CAUSE THEY HADN'T SEEN A DETAILED STORMWATER PLAN THAT'S USUALLY JUST SUBMITTED TO THE CITY. AND SO WE WENT OUT OF OUR WAY TO PROVIDE TWO OPTIONS THAT CLEARLY SHOWED THERE WAS NO ADDITIONAL DRAINAGE INTO THE ASSIA AND ACTUALLY REDUCED FLOW TO TRAIL STREET. AND, AND THE REASON WHY WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS LAST TIME WAS, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT, AND I THINK WE'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH ON MAYBE SOMETHING THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU'RE GONNA COMPLY WITH AND THERE'S SOMEBODY ENFORCING [03:10:01] IT. OKAY. YOU'RE GONNA GET CLARIFICATION ON HOW MUCH YOU'RE ALLOWED TO AND ON THE NON-COMPLIANCE ISSUE AS WELL, I THINK WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU WERE TO IMPLEMENT DRAINAGE PONDS, WHERE ARE THEY? 'CAUSE THAT'S OUR PURVIEW AND IF IT WAS GONNA CHANGE ANY OF YOUR FINAL DESIGN. SO RIGHT NOW, I THINK THE APPLICANT HAS DONE A GOOD EFFORT IN SHOWING US WHERE THOSE DRAINAGE PONDS WOULD BE BASED ON THEIR INITIAL STUDY AND THE SIZE AND WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. AND I THINK THAT YOUR FINAL WILL PROBABLY BE NOT UNTIL YOU REALLY HAVE THOSE CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND IF THERE'S ANY CHANGES THAT HAS TO BE DONE, YOU'RE GONNA COME BACK. YES. IF WE HAVE TO CHANGE ANYTHING IN THE, THE, WITH THE BUILDINGS OR ANYTHING THAT HISTORIC REVIEW IS, YOU KNOW, CONCERNED WITH, I MEAN WE WILL BE BACK, BUT WE'RE GONNA BE COMING UP WITH THE ACTUAL A HUNDRED PERCENT STORMWATER SOLUTION. WE JUST SHOWED TWO OPTIONS THAT WORK. IT MIGHT BE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. WE MIGHT HAVE PART OF IT'S IMPERVIOUS COVER, YOU KNOW, IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT TAKES OUT A WHOLE POND. YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT HAVE TWO PONDS, WE MIGHT HAVE A SMALLER POND AND A PIECE OF THE IMPERVIOUS DRIVEWAY WITH A, YOU KNOW, THAT RETAINS STORM WATER. SO WE'RE WORKING THAT OUT. WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, LIKE WE HAVE TO THINK HOLISTICALLY ABOUT THIS. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE GO THROUGH THESE PROCESSES WITH THE CITY. AND SO WE'RE GONNA BE COMING UP WITH A SOLUTION. AND NOT ONLY THAT, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT OUR BUYERS, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BE BUYING THESE TOWN HOMES AND LIVING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND LIVING AND HAVING ACCESS TO THE PARK. WE WANT IT TO BE PRETTY FOR THEM AS WELL. WE WANT IT TO BE AS WELL, YOU KNOW, LANDSCAPED AS POSSIBLE. I MEAN, WE'RE NOT GONNA PUT A DUMPY, I MEAN, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU CAN SHOW ALL THE PHOTOSHOPPED RENDERINGS YOU WANT, BUT THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT, I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR AND I ACTUALLY THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, POOR TREATMENT. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE PHOTOSHOP. UM, I AM WORRIED ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE IMPACT OF THESE FEATURES WHERE THEY'RE CURRENTLY PROPOSED, UM, FROM THE CONTEXT OF THE STREET, FROM THE CONTEXT OF THE ASAKIA AND WHERE THEY'RE DISCHARGING AND KIND OF HOW THAT WORKS. SO I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE WATER MOVES ACROSS THE SITE NOW, HOW YOU'RE RECEIVING IT AND WHAT STRUCTURES ARE WE ADDING TO THE SITE. SO WE RUN INTO PROBLEMS SOMETIMES WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE HAVE TO ADD, UM, LARGE SITE FEATURES KIND OF AT THE END AND, AND SOME PROJECTS WHERE WE'VE, WE'VE REALLY STRUGGLED OR MAYBE, MAYBE WE HAVE A PROJECT THAT REQUIRES, UM, A SPECIAL KIND OF PARKING OR, UM, ACCESS TO EMERGENCY VEHICLES ON THE SITE THAT TOTALLY BLOWS SOMETHING OUT OF CHARACTER. SO ON SLIDE 30, CAN WE GO BACK TO THE SITE PLAN SLIDE? THE, THE ONE THAT SHOWS THE RETENTION PONDS, THE ARCHITECTURAL RULES 36 36, I MEAN, THIS IS THE DRAWING THAT I'M MOST INTERESTED IN IN TODAY. THE, THE RETENTION POND, UH, IN THE UPPER RIGHT HAND CORNER IS GOING ALL THE WAY TO THE STREET AT THE CORNER. THAT IS A PRIMARY VIEW. SO, UH, WE USUALLY PAY PRETTY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE PROFILE. FOR INSTANCE, HOW FAR IS THAT COMING UP? WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE SIDE OF IT? HOW DOES IT RELATE TO THE LANDSCAPING? I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE IS MAYBE, MAYBE THAT'S THE FOOTPRINT THAT YOU'LL NEED. YEAH, SO THIS IS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE. THIS IS IF WE NEED TWO FULL DETENTION PONDS WITH NOT DOING ANY IMPERVIOUS COVER, ANY IMPERVIOUS REQUIREMENT, WHICH ISN'T, DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH THE RIVER AUTHORITY, IT HAS TO DO WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. AND WE HAVE TO GO FOUR FEET IN DEPTH, EXCAVATE, INSTALL A BUNCH OF STUFF, AND THAT'LL, THAT'LL ACTUALLY RETAIN OR UH, DETAIN STORM STORMWATER. SO THIS IS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE. WE, WE WEREN'T ASKED TO SHOW AESTHETIC DETAILS OF THE STORMWATER PONDS. SO THIS IS, THIS IS EXAMPLE ONE WHERE WE HAVE TO DO THE FULL POND OPTION. EXAMPLE TWO COULD BE, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE A PIECE OF THE DRIVEWAY WHERE WE DIG FOUR FEET DOWN AND IT'S THAT FOUR FOOT IMPERVIOUS, WE COULD HAVE THE WHOLE DRIVEWAY. THE KEY IS THE KEY SITE FEATURE, RIGHT? THIS IS A BIG VISIBLE ELEMENT ON ATCH, BUT COMMISSIONER FISH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS MENTIONING BEFORE, IS WE NEVER REQUIRE THIS FROM THE APPLICANT AND IT'S NOT REQUIRED IN STIPULATIONS. THE APPLICANT WERE ASKED TO SAY LOCATION AND MAKE A STUDY, WE CAN APPROVE AND, AND APPLICANT HAS TO UNDERSTAND WE DO APPROVE A SITE PLAN, RIGHT? SO RIGHT NOW WE ARE GONNA APPROVE THIS SITE PLAN AND YOU HAVEN'T COME BACK. YOU'LL HAVE TO COME BACK EITHER TO STAFF OR TO US. AND WE CAN ADD THAT AS A STIPULATION IF THERE WERE TO DO ANY DESIGN TO THAT POND. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, FINAL DESIGN, SOME IT MAY NOT EVEN BE NEEDED, RIGHT? OR IT MAY JUST BE, IT MIGHT NOT EVEN BE NEEDED. IT MAY JUST BE A GREEN AREA. LET, LET'S I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER [03:15:01] FISH'S CONCERNED BECAUSE IF, IF WE WENT WITH THE EXTREME OPTION, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE, YOU'D WANT SEE, OKAY, WELL WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT WHOLE CORNER ISN'T A STORMWATER DETENTION POND OR IT, IT'S, WE'RE NOT I APPROVING ANY CONCRETE WALLS TODAY. YEAH, WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, WE JUST WANT, WE WERE ASKED TO SHOW HOW THIS AFFECTS THE A SECCHIA, UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO WE SHOWED TWO OPTIONS. I CAN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T GO TO THE FULL EXTREME OPTION. WE'RE GONNA BE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN. I HAVE A, A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. SO THE FOOTPRINT THAT YOU'RE SHOWING, IS THAT SCALED IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU'RE ONLY DETAINING THE STORMWATER OR IS THAT REPRESENTING A COMBINATION OF THE TWO? HOW MUCH STORM WATER IS BEING DEALT WITH FROM THE SITE IN, WITHIN THE FOOTPRINTS THAT ARE PROPOSED? ALL OF IT, OR PROBABLY 95% OF IT EXCEPT FOR THE AREAS, THE DRY AREAS ALONG TRAIL STREET. BUT YOU'RE NOT USING ANY PERVIOUS COVER TO REDUCE THE DETENTION REQUIREMENT. THAT'S FULL DETENTION. SO THIS, RIGHT. SO THAT, THAT'S A GRAY AREA BECAUSE, UM, WE'VE DISCUSSED WITH SARAH AS IT'S BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED, WE WENT THERE TO DISCUSS WITH THEM OPTIONS ABOUT, UM, PERVIOUS PAVERS, THEIR REBATE PROGRAM. UM, NOT RE WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO IT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THE RIVER, BUT AS A, UH, STEP OF GOOD FAITH BY THE DEVELOPER AND TO REDUCE THE FOOTPRINT OF ULTIMATE CONDITIONS. SO THE, I FORGOT WHERE I WAS GOING. THE IMPERVIOUS COVER AREA DOES TAKE SOME OF IT, YOU SAID THAT AND THE D R C MEETING? YES. SO ONE OPTION THAT WE PRESENTED AT THE D R C MEETING WAS, UM, THIS, WHAT YOU SEE HERE, THIS IS THESE PONDS CONTAIN THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT FOR THE SITE, THE DEVELOPMENT OF SITE. SO WE HAVE OFFSITE WATER THAT WE'RE ALSO DETAINING OR BRINGING INTO OUR PONDS THAT IT'S BEYOND OUR MEASURE. CAN YOU ILLUSTRATE WHERE THAT WATER IS COMING ONTO THE SITE? THE AREA LABELED OSS ONE, WE HAVE NO WAY OF BYPASSING THAT THROUGH OUR SITE. WE HAVE TO TAKE IT, THE OSS ONE IS BEING PICKED UP BY THAT. YOUR SOUTH RETENTION POND? THE NORTH POND OR THE MAJORITY? WELL, YES, THE SOUTH POND. THE, SO THE FOOTPRINT OF THE DETENTION PONDS THAT ARE THERE, IT'S COUNTING SOME IMPERVIOUS COVER THAT'S LIKE, AND THE SIZE FOR THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT, A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT, THEY ARE STILL DISCHARGING INTO THE ASAKIA. BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S GONNA BE A SLOW RIGHT. THE SOUTH POND DISCHARGES UPSTREAM OF THE ASAKIA, THE NORTH POND DISCHARGES TOWARD ATCH. THE DISCHARGE, THE COMBINATION OF THE DISCHARGE FROM THE SOUTH POND AND THE AREA P THREE DOES NOT EXCEED WHAT IS GOING TO ACTUALLY IS LESS THAN WHAT IS GOING TO TRAIL RIGHT TRAIL AND THE ASAKIA RIGHT NOW. OKAY. CAN, CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE, THE LOWER POND, UH, THAT WE CAN SEE ON THE ARCHITECTURAL SITE PLAN? SO EARLY IN THE PROCESS, UM, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THE ASAKIA, UH, AND SOME OF THE EARLY FOOTPRINTS. I THINK IT WAS BUILDING FOUR AND BUILDING SIX, AND PROBABLY IN ADDITION, UH, BUILDING TWO. UM, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN THERE, THERE WAS SOME AGREEMENT ON MAKING A WALKING TRAIL AND PUTTING AN EASEMENT THERE THAT, UH, WOULD REDUCE THE D THE, THE, THE DISTURBING OF THE SOIL AND, AND BETTER PROTECT THAT ELEMENT. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE THE HALF OF THAT DETENTION POND IS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE SIA AND INSIDE OUR SETBACK THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER ON. UM, SO, SO JUST REAL QUICK, THE WALKING TRAIL IS ACTUALLY UNTOUCHED BY THAT, UH, LOWER POND. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR THE CONNECTIVITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND OPENING UP TRAIL STREET AND HAVING A NICE WALKING TRAIL FOR THE RESIDENTS. SO WE MADE IT A POINT TO MAKE SURE THAT NONE OF THOSE PONDS IMPEDE UPON THE WALKING TRAIL. UM, SO THE WALKING TRAIL IS NOT DISTURBED BY THE POND? NO, I, I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S NOT THE CONCERN THAT I'M POINTING OUT. THE CONCERN THAT I'M POINTING OUT IS THAT THERE'S SIGNIFICANT EXCAVATION HAPPENING WELL WITHIN THE SETBACK THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN PHASE. UM, I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA BE DOING SOME, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA BE DOING THE POND THERE. I MEAN I I I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS EXCAVATION THAT WAS THE, IN THE DESIGN PHASE. YEAH. SO WE HAD CONCERN ABOUT THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING AND THE SOIL DISTURBING ACTIVITY ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE FOUNDATION. [03:20:01] RIGHT. 40 OF THE AREA WILL BE FILL HERE, NOT EXCAVATION. OUR PONDS ARE ABOUT TWO FEET ROUND AND SINCE WE'RE HAVING TO CONVEY THE OFF SITE, WE CAN'T GO MUCH HIGHER THAN THAT. SO THE MAJORITY OF THAT AREA IS ACTUALLY FILL, NOT EXCAVATION. SO THE POND KIND OF SITS ON THE EXISTING GRADE AND YOU'RE HAVING TO BUILD UP AROUND IT. CORRECT. SO THERE'S SOME TOPOGRAPHY THAT'S HAPPENING AROUND HERE THAT WE CAN'T SEE OR UNDERSTAND YET. RIGHT. SO WEST OF THAT POND TO THE LEFT, PLANNED LEFT, THAT WILL BE FILL, THAT'LL MEET THE TOP OF THE POND AND THEN ON THE DOWNHILL SIDE WILL BE EXPOSED. YOU TALKED ABOUT, I THINK WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER POND, BUT THE UPPER, UH, PORT, WHICH MEANS THE WALL OF THE DETENTION PONDS YOU ARE HOLDING THAT LEVEL IS, IS ABOVE LEVEL 6 74. UM, HOW HIGH IS THAT ABOVE EXISTING GRADE, UM, ON THE ATCH EDGE AND THEN KIND OF DOWN THERE BY THE ? FORGIVE ME COMMISSIONERS. I'M REALLY JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. NO, YOU WERE HITTING UPON WHAT I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT. ALL IF, IF THAT WAS INDEED EXCAVATION ADJACENT TO, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THE SAKE, EXCUSE ME, UH, THERE ARE OTHER APPLICANTS HERE TODAY. YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE AWARE OF THAT, UM, THAT THERE WAS GONNA BE EXCAVATION CLOSE TO AN ARCHEOLOGICAL SITE. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S SAYING THERE'S MORE FILL RATHER THAN CUT TAKING PLACE THERE. SO THE, THIS SHOWS THE NORTHERN POND AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER. UM, THERE'S EXISTING GROUND SPOT OF EVOLUTION, GROUND SPOT OF EAN AT 6 72, 62 6 72 22. I DON'T HAVE MY CHEATERS ON. SO IT'S WITH THE TOP OF THE POND. IT'S 6 75. AND THAT'S WORST CASE SCENARIO. UM, WE ARE 2.2 0.38 FEET TALL. SO ON THE ATCH SIDE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A TWO FOOT CONCRETE WALL, POTENTIALLY ALONG THE STREET. IF, IF WE HAVE A POND ON THE ATCH SIDE, WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A POND ON THE ATCH SIDE. SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A POND UP AGAINST THE ASAKIA BECAUSE IF THERE'S EXCAVATION THAT'S REQUIRED THERE. 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE'LL PERMIT THAT. SO THERE THERE'S TWO, THERE ARE TWO THINGS HAPPENING KIND OF THAT I THINK ARE EASY TO CONFUSE, UM, OR EASY TO MIX UP WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS. I THINK, UH, ONE OF OUR CHIEF RESPONSIBILITIES HERE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE, THE ASSIA THERE. THAT'S, UH, A SIGNIFICANT, UH, HISTORIC FEATURE THAT I THINK WE'RE OBLIGATED TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS PROJECT IMPACTS IT. UM, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT STORM WATER DRAINAGE AND THE PROHIBITION OF DRAINING INTO THE ASAKIA FROM THE BEGINNING OF TIME ON THIS PROJECT, AND WE'RE ASSURED THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED AT THE PROPER TIME. WELL, NOW, OR LAST TIME IS THE PROPER TIME, I THINK, TO SEE, TO SEE IT RESOLVED. UH, MY CONCERN IS THESE ARE BIG, THESE ARE LARGE SITE FEATURES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. KIND OF LIKE, WELL, THEY COULD BE BIGGER, THEY COULD BE SMALLER, THEY COULD BE HIGHER, THEY COULD BE LOWER, THEY COULD BE HERE, OR THEY COULD BE THERE. CAN, CAN, I CAN, CAN I, UH, TRY TO MAKE A MOTION REAL QUICK AND HEAR ME OUT ON THIS? UM, SO I'M, I'M GONNA MOVE TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, UM, FOR AND, AND STAFF. PLEASE HELP ME IF, IF I NEED HELP WITH THIS, BUT, UM, TO APPROVE WITHOUT, UH, THE EXACT LOCATION OF THE RETENTION SYSTEM IN PLACE. AND ONCE THAT IS RESOLVED WITH THE CITY, THAT THAT PARTICULAR ITEM BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED OR BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE BOARD, DEPENDING ON STAFF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. I AGREE THAT A MOTION THIS SECOND, AND YOU'RE ALL, ALL, UM, STIPULATIONS SECOND. A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I, I, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, TO TO SAY THAT, UM, FOR, FOR ME, THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THE PROJECT, A LOT OF ISSUES THAT ARE LEFT UNRESOLVED. I, BUT, BUT I COME ON NEWS. SO I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE DEFINITION OF, WITH, WITH REGARD TO THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU KNOW, WE USE THE WORD NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THIS IS LIKE AN ENCLAVE. SO IT'S NOT A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE ANY OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS FAR DISTANCES IN ALL DIRECTIONS. THIS IS A VERY TIGHT NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THE VIDEO OF THE WATER IS KIND OF TESTIMONY IN ITSELF BECAUSE THERE'S VERY FEW NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE CAPPED IN THAT WAY, WHERE THE WATER REALLY HITS YOU IN ALL DIRECTIONS. ANYBODY THAT'S BEEN IN THERE DURING A STORM [03:25:01] HAS PROBABLY GOTTEN STUCK IN THERE. I MEAN, YOU, YOU CAN, YOU CAN GET SWEPT AWAY IN THERE. UM, SO WHEN I SEE THOSE LARGE ROOFS, UM, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I, I CAN, I CAN, I HAVE A, A A EXPERIENCE IN, IN, IN KNOWING WHAT, WHAT THAT RUNOFF IS LIKE. 'CAUSE, BUT, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WERE DEFINED IF THEY WERE DEFINED BY THIS, BY THIS COMMISSION AS MANSARDS, BECAUSE I'VE NEVER SEEN A MANSARD ROOF THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT. YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY, THEY'RE MORE, IT'S MORE LIKE A WAREHOUSE ROOF. SO, SO THE, THE CHARACTER OF IT ALL TO ME DOESN'T, DOESN'T MEET THE STANDARD OF, UM, OF AN AESTHETIC IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S NOT A, A A, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT IT'S NOT GOING IN THAT DIRECTION. BUT FOR, FOR, FOR ME, IT JUST SEEMS THAT, FOR THAT ENCLAVE, FOR THAT TIGHT ENCLAVE, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S AMASSING THAT IS, THAT COMPETES WITH ANY, ANY, UM, INAPPROPRIATE MASSING IN ANY SITUATION IN THE CITY. BUT I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHY, WHY, UH, I, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S MY PURVIEW TO, TO HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OF WHY YOU FEEL THAT YOU NEED THAT MUCH MASSING. UM, YOU, YOU NEED THAT. YOU, YOU DO YOU NEED THAT MANY UNITS OR I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. SO I, I, I DO THINK THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT A PROJECT LIKE THIS IS A GOOD PROJECT AND IN THE ENVIRONMENT IT'S, IT, IT CAN BE DONE PROPERLY, IT CAN BE DONE, RIGHT. I DON'T, I DON'T WANNA OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS, BUT, UM, I I, I, I DON'T WANNA SAY THAT I WANT TO, I, THAT I COULDN'T SUPPORT IT, BUT I THINK I WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO ABSTAIN. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ON WHAT THIS COMMISSION HAS. SIR, WOULD IT HELP THAT THE EXISTING ZONING ON THE SITE, EXCUSE FAVOR, WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR, UM, AND A SECOND. AND, UH, I DO HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT. UH, I STILL HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE MASSING OF THE BUILDING ON TRAIL, THAT THERE, UH, BUILDING FIVE IS STILL THREE STORIES. UH, WHEN, UH, FOR A LONG TIME WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT OLIVE TRAIL BEING TWO STORIES. SO, UH, WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? YES. UM, I'VE BEEN WAITING TO MAKE A COMMENT FOR SOME TIME NOW. I STILL HAVE AT LEAST TWO CONCERNS. AND IT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT REGARDING DETENTION AREAS AND DRAINAGE. UH, I AGREE WITH A LOT OF THE CONCERNS OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. YOU SAY THERE'S GONNA BE DETENTION AREAS, BUT YOU CAN'T REALLY TELL US OR SHOW US EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GONNA LOOK LIKE. UM, SO YOU'RE ASK, YOU'RE SAYING WE WON'T MAKE THEM UGLY. WE'LL MAKE THEM AESTHETIC, AESTHETICALLY ATTRACTIVE, WHICH IS TO ME THE SAME AS SAYING, TRUST ME. AND THAT DOESN'T FLY WITH ME. UH, I ALSO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE, UH, DRAINAGE RUNOFF, WHICH SUPPOSEDLY IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED IN THE FUTURE. I DON'T THINK WE CAN APPROVE THIS WITHOUT SAYING YES, IT IS APPROVED NOW. SO I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE CURRENT MOTION. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND. THERE'S A STIPULATION IN THE MOTION THAT SAYS THAT, UM, IT'S NOT ABOUT TRUST. LIKE THEY HAVE TO GO TO STAFF OR TO US TO GET APPROVAL ON, ON THE FINAL DESIGN OF THE . MY, MY CONCERN THAT WAS DRAFTED INTO THE MOTION IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A SOLUTION NOW, AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH A PERMITTING PROCESS WITH THE CITY TO GET THAT SOLUTION. AND ONCE THAT SOLUTION IS THEN PROPOSED AND AND APPROVED BY THE CITY FOR CODE, THEN IT COMES BACK TO US TO GET AN AESTHETIC AND, AND, AND, UH, APPROVAL AT THAT STAGE. 'CAUSE I, I HAVE A FEELING AS MANY OF MY COMMISSIONERS, I I'M SURE AS AS WELL DO THAT IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THEIR SITE PLAN. IT'S GOING TO IMPACT, UM, THE NUMBER OF BUILDINGS ON THIS SITE AND IT MAY IMPACT, UM, WHERE THESE THINGS ARE LOCATED. AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT IT'S GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK TO US ANYWAY. WELL, AND JUST, JUST TO, YOU KNOW, UM, JUST FURTHER JUST A LITTLE BIT, EXPLAIN, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE MF 33, UM, I, IT, WHATEVER AN MF 33 SHOULD, YOU KNOW, CAN ACCOMMODATE IT SHOULD ACCOMMODATE, BUT, BUT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS A VERY STRONG CHARACTER AND IS VERY TRUE TO ITS ELEMENTS, PARTICULARLY THEIR HISTORIC, UH, THEIR HISTORIC VALUE. AND I, AND, AND IT'S AN EMPTY PROPERTY. AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO SHARE MY PHILOSOPHY IS THAT IT SHOULD, IT SHOULD HAVE THE LEEWAY TO DO, YOU KNOW, UH, THE THINGS THAT A NEW BUILDING CAN DO, RIGHT? BUT I, I, I JUST FEEL THAT THAT THE EFFORT TO HAVE THAT THIRD FLOOR, IF, IF IT, IF IT, IF IT'S BECAUSE IT'S, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A MAN, THEN YOU EXCEED THE MF 33 HEIGHT OR, OR YOU, OR YOU'RE TRYING TO REDUCE THE HEIGHT. BUT WHATEVER THE CASE IS, I THINK THAT IT CREATES A SITUATION THAT CAUSES YOU TO, TO CREATE THESE MASSING. AND IT'S, IT'S MOST APPARENT ON THAT WE ATCH BUILDING THAT'S ADJACENT THOSE TWO HOUSES [03:30:01] THAT, UM, IT, IT'S, IT'S COMMON COURTESY AND DESIGN TO, TO CREATE A LINE THAT ALLOWS THE LIGHT TO ENTER INTO THESE HOUSES. AND AT THE VERY BASIC HELP PREVENT SICK, SICK HOUSE SYNDROME WHERE THEY DON'T, WHERE THEY DON'T GET SUNLIGHT, THAT HELPS KILL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMMON, UH, UH, IN, IN, IN, UM, IN THIS AREA TO TRY TO, TO TRY TO MEET SOME OF THE CHARACTERISTICS AND, AND TO FLOW INTO THE DESIGN OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS, AS OPPOSED TO JUST PRESENT MASSING TO JUST PLOP THEMSELVES AND SIT DOWN IN, IN, IN AN ENCLAVE AS OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, NEIGHBORHOODS THAT EXPAND OUT MUCH FURTHER. AM AM I ABLE TO RESPOND? WELL, CAN I, CAN I GET A VOTE ON THAT MOTION? WE, IT'S BEEN ABOUT 30 MINUTES. YEAH. UM, I DO WANNA NOTE THAT THE MOTION INCLUDED ALL OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, AND THAT INCLUDES REQUIREMENTS FOR NO SUB SUBTERRANEAN WORK WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE EX EXTENT NAKIA. AND SO ANYTHING THAT EXCEEDS THAT WILL PROBABLY NEED TO COME BACK, WHICH IS WHAT THE INTENT OF THE MOTION IS, I BELIEVE. OKAY. MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL THE OPPOSED SAY NAYYY. NAY, NAY. SO WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL. ROLL CALL. VELAZQUEZ ABSTAIN, CARPENTER, NAY FISH, ZER, NAY, LAO AYE. FERNANDEZ. NAY, GRUE AYE. BOWMAN, AYE. MOTION FAILS. WE CAN ENTERTAIN A DIFFERENT MOTION AT THIS POINT. YEAH. CAN I, CAN I REQUEST A MOTION OR APPLICANT CAN, CAN WE RESPOND WHAT? WE HAVEN'T TAKEN ANY ACTION. OKAY. THAT'S WHY I WAS CURIOUS WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE. WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS? SO WE CAN ENTERTAIN A DIFFERENT MOTION, OR THE APPLICANT CAN WITHDRAW AND COME BACK TO A D R C WITH, UH, ADDRESSING SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN STATED TODAY BY THE COMMISSION. AND I, I JUST DON'T WANT TO DO A THOUSAND D R C MEETINGS. UM, I, I UNDERSTAND THE SENSITIVITY. WE WERE A, THE THING IS, RIGHT, RIGHT. WE WERE ASKED LAST TIME TO BRING IN A STORMWATER, A COUPLE STORMWATER OPTIONS THAT SHOW THAT NOTHING'S GONNA BE INCREASING FLOW TO THE EIA. WE DID THIS AS A COURTESY. UM, WE BROUGHT THOSE IN, WE SHOWED THOSE AT A D R C MEETING. NOBODY SEEMED TO HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH WHAT WE SHOWED AT A D R C MEETING. IF WE WERE ASKED, HEY, WHY DON'T YOU SHOW THE DESIGN OF THESE AND, YOU KNOW, WHATNOT TO THE NEXT H D R C HEARING, YOU KNOW, WE COULD HAVE DONE THAT. WELL, AT THE TIME YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE DESIGN WAS, AND WE ASKED WHAT IT WAS, AND IT'S BEEN, WHAT, TWO OR THREE WEEKS? AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE A DESIGN. SO I'M FEELING A LITTLE DEFENSIVE NOW THAT, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT ARE THESE THINGS GONNA LOOK LIKE? AND Y'ALL WERE STILL STUDYING AND HE STILL CAME BACK WITH TWO OPTIONS AND NONE HAS BEEN, UH, DEVELOPED FURTHER THAT YOU COULD SHOW US WHAT THESE THINGS LOOK LIKE. IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO, IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO, AS A STIPULATION, ENSURE THAT THESE PONDS WILL NOT BE VISIBLE? AND ALSO, AND WHETHER THAT'S COVERED BY LANDSCAPING OR, UH, AND ALSO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE DID NOT WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE, OF THE ASEC. I WAS AT THE D R C AND I WASN'T REALLY, I MEAN, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN UNDER THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THESE PONDS THAT WERE PRESENTED AT D R C AND PRESENTED TODAY ARE NOT EVEN FOR SURE. IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR, ALL YOUR PERMIT WORK AND YOUR CONSTRUCTION PLANS AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU'RE GONNA GO THROUGH WITH THE CITY. AND I ALSO NOW GOT CONFIRMATION TODAY THAT THE CITY WILL BE COMPLIANT. AND IF THERE'S ANY WALLS OR ANYTHING THAT'S HAS TO BE DESIGNED, IT SHOULD COME TO, IT'S GONNA COME TO THIS COMMISSION ANYWAY. I THINK THE APPLICANT DESERVES A, A MOTION FREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER. WE'VE, WE'VE SEEN THIS CASE A A NUMBER OF TIMES. UM, A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN PUT INTO THIS PROCESS. AND A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT ON BEHALF OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN PUT INTO THIS PROCESS. AND A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT FROM THE COMMISSION HAS BEEN PUT INTO THIS PROCESS. I CAN'T SUPPORT, UH, AN APPROVAL FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS UNTIL I UNDERSTAND THE DESIGN FOR THE DRAINAGE FEATURE AND HOW IT IMPACTS THE ASAKIA. SO MY DISCOMFORT, UH, WITH THE PREVIOUS MOTION IS THAT IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK CAN BE REMEDIED BY STIPULATION AND STAFF. I THINK IT'S A BIG ENOUGH SITE ELEMENT, [03:35:01] UM, THAT IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BEFORE, UH, UH, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HERE. UM, I APPRECIATE THAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED WITH ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS THAT ARE LISTED. ALL OF THEM, UM, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, NOT THE GARAGE ONE. RIGHT. AND, AND I SUPPORT YOU ON THE GARAGE. ONE, THERE'S SOME GARAGE FACING STRUCTURE STRUCTURES ON THIS STREET. THIS IS NOT SINGLE FAMILY. UM, I THINK THE GARAGE DOORS ARE APPROPRIATE. SO AS FAR AS, UM, THE STAFF COMMENTS HERE, UH, AND THE STIPULATIONS, I THINK WE'RE ON THIS, ON THE SAME PAGE, THIS DRAINAGE PLAN, I'M NOT ON THE SAME PAGE AND I DON'T, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW TO CRAFT A MOTION THAT REMEDIES THE PROBLEM. SO I'M GONNA SEEK THE COUNCILS, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO FIND A WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS. I, I THINK EITHER WE CRAFT A MOTION THAT APPROVES A, A PORTION OF IT TODAY WITHOUT IT AS WAS PREVIOUSLY PROPOSED, OR WE JUST SAY, COME BACK AFTER YOU GET YOUR DRAINAGE PLAN WORKED OUT WITH THE CITY. I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY WAY, UM, TO MAKE THAT JUDGMENT CALL, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GONNA REALLY KNOW THE FULL EXTENT OF THEIR DESIGN UNTIL IT'S APPROVED. UM, SO WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW HOW LARGE THOSE WALLS ARE, WHERE THIS IS LOCATED, WHERE THE OUTPUT IS. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT ENGINEERING PROCESS AND WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOW. AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA KNOW. AND WE, OH, I'M, I'M SORRY. WE, WE COULD, AND AS A POSSIBLE SOLUTION. AND LET ME CONSULT MY ENGINEER REAL QUICK JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT, SO THE OTHER OPTION FOR LIKE WHAT WE SHOWED WAS AN EXTREME PLAN FOR THE PURPOSES OF COMMUNICATING STORMWATER. WHAT IF WE AGREED TO OPTION THE OTHER EXTREME PLAN WHERE THE ENTIRE DRIVEWAY, YOU KNOW, OR THE PORTION OF THE DRIVEWAY SERVED AS THE IMPERMEABLE A K A, THE SATCH DETENTION POND, THAT NOW BECOMES THE DRIVEWAY. AND THEN WE APPROVE THE, UH, WE APPROVE THAT. AND IF WE GO BACK WITH SOMETHING WHERE IT'S GONNA BE SHOWCASED ON ATCH OR, YOU KNOW, AND IT, AND IT ABSOLUTELY CAN'T COME WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE ASEC, WE WOULD REMOVE THE NORTHERN DETENTION POND. AND, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO, I WANT TO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO HAVE FLEXIBILITY WHEN WE'RE DOING OUR STORM WATER PLAN. SO I DON'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, IF WE CAN CONCEAL THE WHOLE THING, I'D LIKE TO DO THAT. BUT WHAT IF WE APPROVED THE, I I DON'T, I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO, HOW WE CAN COME UP, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT, IT, IT JUST, SO, SO PREVIOUS, PREVIOUSLY, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN AND SKEPTICISM THAT YOU WERE GONNA BE ABLE TO MANAGE THE STORM WATER ON THE SITE WITH JUST PREVIOUS COVER ON THE DRIVES AND THAT THAT WOULD PREVENT, UM, STORMWATER FROM, UH, CAUSING HARM TO THE ASAE. SO WE ASKED FOR MORE INFORMATION ON IT, FOR INSTANCE, UM, HOW MUCH PERVIOUS COVER IS THAT? WHAT KIND OF, UH, RAIN EVENT IS IT CAPABLE OF? HOW, HOW MUCH, UH, STORM WATER WOULD BE MOVING ACROSS THE SITE TOWARD THE ASSIA? UM, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANSWERS ABOUT ANY OF THOSE LAST TIME. DIDN'T HAVE THE CIVIL ENGINEER HERE. UM, WE WERE CONCERNED THAT SITE SITE FEATURES WOULD BE REQUIRED TO MANAGE THE STORMWATER. UM, I APOLOGIZE, I COULDN'T MAKE THE, THE COMMITTEE MEETING, BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING ARE LARGE SITE FEATURES TO MITIGATE THE STORMWATER, NOT BECAUSE WE WANT LARGE SITE FEATURES TO MITIGATE THE STORMWATER. WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT'S BEING DEALT WITH IN RELATION TO THE ASEC. SO IF, IF THE ENGINEER HAS ANY, ANY INFORMATION ON, UM, UM, LET'S SAY AT LEAST MORE PERVIOUS COVER DEALING WITH STORM WATER AND EDUCATE US BRIEFLY ON HOW THAT WORKS AND HOW MUCH WATER CAN BE DEALT WITH. SURE. SO IN ORDER FOR THE CITY TO COUNT IMPERVIOUS AS COMPLETELY PERVIOUS, IT HAS TO HAVE STORAGE VOLUME FOR THE 25 YEAR STORM EVENT, WHICH I BELIEVE THIS IS PA THREE. SO IT WAS 3.96 INCHES. AND THAT EQUATES TO ABOUT, UM, ROUGHLY FOUR, GIVE OR TAKE. IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE I'VE DONE THE COMPUTATION, UM, WITHIN THE DRIVEWAY, WITHIN THE SHARED DRIVE. SO THAT WOULD, THAT AREA WOULD, UH, UM, HAVE VOLUME STORAGE FOR BUILDINGS 1, 2, 3, 4, AND THE OFFSITE AREA WE HAVE, WE ALSO HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. WE JUST CAN'T LET IT GO. SO, UM, THAT'S ONE OPTION FOR THE SHARED DRIVE AREA. UM, IN LIEU OF [03:40:01] A DETENTION POND, THERE WOULD BE SOME OUTFALL STRUCTURE, BUT IT WOULD CONSIST OF PIPES AND PRESSURE TO DISCHARGE THE RUNOFF FROM SITE. WHERE AND WHERE WOULD THAT BE? IT WOULD, IT'S VERY LOW PROFILE. UM, AND IT WOULD BE DIRECTED TOWARDS SATCH TO AVOID, UH, DIRECT DISCHARGE TO THE GARDEN AND POTENTIALLY THE ASA AS THE POND DISCHARGES. NOW, UH, THE OPTION FOR POND TWO, UM, WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME TYPE OF BIO SWELL, UM, SIMILAR CONCEPT, BUT NOT FOUR FEET OF GRAVEL. IT WOULD CONSIST OF, UH, PLANTS, UM, RAIN GARDENS, UM, CATCHMENT BASINS, BECAUSE THE AREA IS LIMITED THERE, UM, IT'S DIFFICULT TO, TO CONTAIN AS MUCH VOLUME. SAME THING. 25 YEAR STORM EVENT, 3.96 INCHES. I HAVE CLARIFY. WILL THESE ALL BE ISSUES THAT YOU CAN, YOU WILL ACTUALLY DEAL WITH ON THE CITY SIDE? SO YES, DURING THE PERMIT PROCESS, WE WOULD HAVE TO REVIEW ALL THE CALCULATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH ANY LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT, ANY DETENTION, ANY, ANY SWELLS, ANY, ANY, ANY PART OF THAT. UM, WE WOULD ALSO WORK WITH O H P TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THE SITE MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS FOR DISCHARGING OR NOT DISCHARGING INTO THE ASEC IS, UM, AS BEST AS POSSIBLE WITHIN THE CODE. AND IF THERE WERE ANY CHANGES TO THE SITE, IT WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK. YES. IF THERE WAS, UM, SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES TO ANY COMPONENT OF THE DESIGN SITE PLAN WHERE THE BUILDINGS ARE LOCATED, WHERE PERUS OR IMPERIOUS AREAS OF COVERAGE ARE LOCATED, UM, WE WOULD REFER THOSE BACK TO THE COMMISSION. I WANNA ATTEMPT ANOTHER MOTION. WELL, I, I DON'T THINK THIS IS GONNA BE MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE THAT, THE, THE SPIRIT OF THE FIRST ONE, BUT I'LL TRY TO DO IT THAT, UM, MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS, UH, AND WITH THE ADDITIONAL STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT RETURN FOR A SEPARATE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THEIR, UH, SOLUTION OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AFTER THEY'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLORE ALL OPTIONS. UH, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN, I THINK YES, BUT WE NEED TO REPHRASE IT TO WHERE IT'S NOT BEING A SEPARATE CERTIFICATE. 'CAUSE WE CAN'T REQUIRE A SEPARATE APPLICATION. ESSENTIALLY WE WOULD HOLD A CERTIFICATE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT UNTIL THAT WAS SATISFYING. SO LET ME TRY TO REPHRASE THAT THEN. UM, THAT THE, UH, MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND WITH THE ADDITIONAL STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT RETURN, UM, WITH THEIR STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, UH, PLAN SO WE CAN EVALUATE THE AESTHETICS AS WELL AS POTENTIAL IMPACTS TO THE ASAKIA. I HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? SAY NAY, NAY, NAY. AND A ONE ABSTAIN. OKAY, LET'S DO A ROLL CALL. VELAZQUEZ ABSTAIN CARPENTER. AYE. FISH. AYE. THAT AYE. UM, LAO A AY FERNANDEZ. AYE. RUBE AYE. BOWMAN? AYE. FOR MOTION PASSES. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THANK THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR ALL OF THEIR, UM, INTEREST AND COMMENTS. MOVING ON TO ITEM [B-11 19-7064 Address/Description: 504 KING WILLIAM HDRC Case No.: 2019-529 Landmark Name: Steves, Albert - House Historic District Name: King William RIO District: RIO-4 Applicant: Daniel Cruz/Design Coop Request: Construction of a second level porch City Council Dist.: 1] B 11 H G R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 5 29 ADDRESS, 5 0 4 KING WILLIAM. THE AD APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ADD A SECOND LEVEL PORCH WITH TURNED WOOD, BAST, STRADS, AND A HANDRAIL. THE PROPOSED TURNED BAST STRADS ARE TO BE GENERALLY TO GENERALLY MATCH THE DESIGN AND PROPORTIONS OF THE 1915 CONFIGURATION, BUT ARE PROPOSED TO BE 36 INCHES TALL TO COMPLY WITH RESIDENTIAL CODE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION AT THE HEIGHT OF THE PROPOSED WOOD TURNED WOOD BALUSTRADE MATCH THE HEIGHT OF THE 1915 PORCH CONFIGURATION. AS EVIDENCED BY ARCHIVAL PHOTOGRAPHS, THE APPLICANT MAY PROPOSE A SECONDARY SUBORDINATE DESIGN DETAIL TO MEET EXISTING CODE RAILING HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS OR THE PROPOSED 36 INCH HEIGHT. AS NOTED IN FINDING D, UPDATED DRAWINGS ARE REQUIRED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A C O A AND THERE IS A LETTER FROM THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION IN YOUR PACKETS. WELL, GOOD EVENING NOW, UM, BRETT FREEMAN DESIGN COBE. SO THERE WAS A PREVIOUS PORCH, UM, THAT WAS APPROVED, [03:45:01] UM, TURNING SECOND LEVEL PORCH, UM, TURNING, UH, THE RESIDENCE, UH, BACK, UH, INTO A HISTORIC SECOND LEVEL PORCH. UM, THERE WAS A EX, A W WOOD, A HANDRAIL AT THE TIME, UM, THAT WOULD, DOESN'T MEET THE CODE REQUIRED HEIGHT OF 36 INCHES. UM, OUR CURRENT CLIENT IS ASKING FOR A LIFE SAFETY, UM, CONCERN. UM, THEY HAVE SMALL CHILDREN, UM, THAT WE RAISE THE WOOD HANDRAIL TO 36, BUT ALL THE DETAILING WOULD BE, UH, SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS HANDRAIL. UM, THERE'S I THINK, COUNTLESS EXAMPLES IN KING WILLIAM WHERE THE HANDRAIL IS 36. THERE'S COMPONENTS OF THE TURN BALLISTERS THAT ARE STRETCHED, UH, EVER SO SLIGHTLY TO, TO ACCOMMODATE TO ELEVATION CHANGE FROM 30 TO 36. UM, A QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU. DID, DID, WE'VE SEEN THIS APPLICATION BEFORE AND I THINK WE'VE HAD A D R C ABOUT THIS ISSUE. WERE YOU, UH, INVOLVED IN ANY OF THAT? UH, I WAS NOT. MY COLLEAGUE WAS AT THE TIME, UM, BUT HE HAS EXPRESSED, UM, THAT NINE COMPONENTS TO ME. SO I THINK THE ARGUMENT CAN BE MADE THAT THE, ONE OF THE RESOLUTIONS WOULD, WOULD BE TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL COMPONENT, UM, TO THE HANDRAIL, WHICH TO ME, UM, HISTORICALLY SEEMS LESS APPROPRIATE THAN POTENTIALLY STRETCHING, UH, A TURN BAER, UH, EVER SO SLIGHTLY IN ITS PROPORTION TO, TO, TO MIMIC, UM, A TURNED HANDRAIL. I THINK HISTORICALLY, IF YOU ADDED A STEEL PIECE OR SOMETHING, UM, TO THE DESIGN, IT, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD HISTORICALLY TAKE AWAY MORE THAN, THAN THAN HAVING A TURNED BAER. SO, SO BASED ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, UM, I IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE APPROVING THE 36 INCH HEIGHT FOR THAT, UM, JUST REQUIRING UPDATED DRAWINGS. ARE YOU, BUT THE DRAWINGS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE CURRENTLY ARE UPDATED DRAWINGS. UM, AND, AND OUR PROPOSAL IS AT TIME OF CONSTRUCTION, WE WOULD EVEN TURN A A A A BALLAS OR PRIOR TO, UH, MOVING ON WITH FULL CONSTRUCTION. SO YOU'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS. OKAY. SO CAN WE WHAT, EXCUSE ME. WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL HEIGHT OF THE RAIL? WELL, THEY WANT US TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL, THE STAFF STIPULATIONS ARE FOR US TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL HEIGHT, NOT, AND WHAT WAS THAT HEIGHT? UH, 30 INCHES I BELIEVE. RIGHT? YEAH. LET ME, LET ME CLARIFY QUICKLY. SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS FOR APPROVAL OF THE CONCEPT OF A SECOND STORY PORCH. OUR STIPULATION IS TO RE CHANGE THE PROPOSED DESIGN THAT YOU SEE HERE TO HAVE THE WOOD BALUSTRADE MATCH THIS LINE. AS EVIDENCED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING THE DRAWING AS PROPOSED, WHICH IS A 36 INCH TALL RAIL. WE ARE STIPULATING THAT IT BE ESSENTIALLY RESTORED TO THAT PHOTO. THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE THE H D R C TO APPROVE A TALLER BALUT. RIGHT? WHICH IS, WHICH IS CODE REQUIRED. SO THE STIPULATION THAT WE INCLUDED IN OUR RECOMMENDATION FOR UPDATED DRAWINGS IS IF THE H D R C WERE TO APPROVE WHAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING, IF YOU APPROVE WHAT'S PROPOSED NOW, WE ALREADY HAVE THE DRAWINGS THAT WE NEED. GOT IT. OKAY. SO WE WOULD NEED UPDATED DRAWINGS FOR THE WOOD BALUSTRADE. WE, THOSE ARE THE CURRENT UPDATED DRAWINGS IF YOU WERE TO APPROVE THE REQUEST PER OUR STIPULATION. OKAY. MR, MR. CHAIR, ASK A QUESTION. THE, THE BALLADE THAT GOES BEHIND THE STONE PIECE OF THE ENTRY IS, IS THAT, IS THAT LINE RUN BEHIND THAT, THAT PIECE? OR IS IT ON TOP OF THAT PIECE FROM THE ELEVATION? LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE ADDING IT TO THE TOP OF THE, OF THE STONE. THE PLAN WAS JUST TO CONTINUE THE LINE ACROSS, UM, AT THAT PARTICULAR DETAIL THAT I DON'T, THAT PARTICULAR ADDED STONE DETAIL WAS DONE MUCH AFTER THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION. SO, SO THE WHAT WE SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, UH, WITH, WITH THE CARVING, IT'S NOT ORIGINAL THEN. HUH, INTERESTING. OKAY. WHAT A DETAIL RIGHT TO ADD. SO THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, THIS STRUCTURE WAS MODIFIED IN 1915. [03:50:02] HA HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU CONS CONSIDERED DOING THE, THE, THE, THE, UH, RAILING AT THE HEIGHT THAT, THAT YOU'D LIKE TO DO THE RAILING AT FOR SAFETY PURPOSES? RIGHT. AND THEN WHEN YOU GET TO THE STONE, NOT, NOT ATTEMPTING TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT IT'S HISTORIC, BUT ADDING A STONE PORTION THAT GETS YOU TO THAT HEIGHT SO THAT THE STORY TELLS. YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY. WE, WE WERE JUST, UH, RESPONDING TO THE STIPULATIONS AT HAND AT, AT THE CURRENT TIME, WHICH WAS BASICALLY THE ARGUMENT OF THE HEIGHT OF THE HANDRAIL. THE, THE, THE RETURNING THE PORCH BACK TO THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION WAS APPROVED. REALLY THE ONLY THING THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING RIGHT NOW IS THE HEIGHT OF THE HANDRAIL. CAN I FOR STAFF ONE MORE FOR STAFF STAFF IT, UM, I I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D CONSIDER THAT KIND OF A, A, A LATER TIME, UH, A ADDITION WITH THE PARTICULAR CHARACTER. UH, WHAT WOULD IT, WOULD IT, WOULD IT MEET YOUR, YOUR, UH, UH, WISHES IF, IF HE CONTINUED TO HEIGHT WITH A, A MATERIAL THAT WAS, UH, IN, IN, IN, UH, KIND WITH THE STONE THAT'S THERE NOW TO, TO, I DON'T THINK WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT. UM, THE 1915 STRUCTURE TO US IS A HISTORIC CONFIGURATION AND WE WOULDN'T WANT THE STONE ON TOP OF THIS AREA TO CONFUSE THAT, THAT, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO THAT'S KIND OF THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT. AND I BELIEVE YOU NEED 42 INCHES PROBABLY. DO YOU NEED 36 OR 42? WELL, WE WERE TRYING TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE, THE, THE HOMEOWNER IS WILLING TO ACCEPT 36 FOR A, UH, FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY CONCERN. UM, WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT, IF YOU GO TO 42, OBVIOUSLY THE STRETCHING OF THE SPINDLE'S GONNA BE DRAMATIC. SO WE'RE, WELL, I I'M SUPPORTIVE OF A RAIL AT 42 THAT MEETS CODE AND DEALS WITH ISSUES OF SAFETY FULLY. BUT THE STRETCHING OF THE, THE TURNED COLUMNS, PARTICULARLY AS THEY INTERACT WITH THAT STONE ELEMENT, THEY'RE IN THE PLANE OF THAT STONE ELEMENT WAS THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE BEFORE. SO I THINK OUR RECOMMENDATION IN THE D R C SAID, YOU CAN RECONSTRUCT THE, THE WOOD TURNED BALLISTERS IN THE WAY THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY, PREVIOUSLY CONFIGURED AND EXTEND AN ADDITIONAL ELEMENT THAT COULD ATTACH TO THOSE, COULD BE HAVE, BE MINIMAL IN PROFILE THAT TOOK YOU ALL THE WAY UP TO 42. 'CAUSE 36 DOESN'T EVEN REALLY DEAL WITH THE SAFETY ISSUE. YOU REALLY WANT 42 THERE. AND THERE'S JUST A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN STRETCHING THAT PROFILE AND IT REALLY INTERACTS WITH THE ELEVATION OF THE BUILDING POORLY. AND I THINK BY DOING SOMETHING MINIMALLY ON TOP OF SOMETHING THAT REPLICATES THE HISTORIC PROFILE THAT GIVES YOU A SOLUTION THEN TO HOW TO TREAT THE STONE, IS THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S SORT OF MINIMAL RIGHT NOW, THIS IS A LITTLE CONFUSING WHERE YOU GOT LIKE BITS OF, OF TURNED, UH, BALUSTRADE THAT'S APPEARING ABOVE THE STONE RATHER THAN MAYBE JUST A VERY SIMPLE PROFILED HAND HANDRAIL THAT'S STUBBED DOWN, YOU KNOW, TABBED DOWN TO THE, THE STONE ITSELF IN AS MINIMAL WAY AS POSSIBLE. AND, AND I, I WOULD, I WOULD ENCOURAGE STAFF TO, WELL, I MEAN, IF THERE WAS A MOTION, I THINK IT, IT WOULD BE IT GREAT IF IT INCLUDED SOME LEEWAY FOR THEM TO COME BACK WITH A, WITH A, WITH A SOLUTION FOR THE, FOR THE TOP OF THAT STONE THAT, UH, IS A HIGH LEVEL, UH, SOLUTION. I SOLUTION I THINK STAFF HAS IT RIGHT WITH, UM, WITH, SO, WELL I'M JUST SAYING BECAUSE I'VE, I'VE WORKED ON A LOT OF BUILDINGS LIKE THIS AND AND FAR BE FOR ME TO TELL YOU WHAT A SOLUTION WOULD BE, BUT YOU HAVE DISCRETION BECAUSE YOU'RE GONNA ALTER IT IF YOU, IF YOU PUT A, A HANDRAIL ON TOP OF IT, AND THAT IS AT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. AND IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS DONE WITH CAREFUL AND AND TALENTED, UH, DILIGENCE. SO IF, IF THE, IF THE 42 INCHES IS ACCEPTABLE OR THE 36 INCHES IS ACCEPTABLE, I COULD SUPPORT A MOTION THAT HAS THAT. BUT I, BUT I THINK THAT YOU SHOULD BE GIVEN THE ARCHITECTURAL LEEWAY TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT ISN'T JUST CHOPPING THE BOTTOMS OFF OF A, OF A BALLAST TRADE AND STICKING IT ON THERE BECAUSE, BECAUSE WE'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT IT. THAT WOULD JUST, THAT WOULD JUST RUIN YOUR HOUSE. WELL, I THINK THE ARGUMENT, UM, AND WE CAN ADDRESS THE, THE STONE ISSUE. UM, I GUESS THE QUESTION BECOMES IF WE, IF WE ARE, ARE GONNA BE ASKED TO LOWER THE HANDRAIL BACK DOWN TO THE 30 INCH HEIGHT, UM, AND ADD A COMPONENT ABOVE THAT, DESIGN-WISE, I'M, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BECAUSE 30 30 YOU'RE OVER 12 INCHES OF ADDITIONAL MATERIAL. UM, I DON'T, I JUST HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME DESIGN-WISE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MATERIAL WOULD BE THAT WOULD BE HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE. [03:55:02] LIKE WOULD YOU ADD, I MEAN THAT WOULDN'T, THAT WOULD ALSO, I THINK IT'S ANY MATERIAL THAT MAINTAINS A MINIMAL PROFILE AND ACHIEVES YOUR, UM, SAFETY HEIGHT OF THE RAIL. AND I THINK MAYBE IT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUGGESTED THAT COULD BE A PRETTY NARROW PROFILE PIECE OF STEEL THAT IS SCREWED ONTO THE TOP OF THAT, OR DIALED INTO THE TOP OF THE WOOD. BUT THE, THE PROBLEM WITH THE TURNED COLUMNS IS THOSE WERE HISTORICALLY THERE, THEY WERE HISTORICALLY AT 30 INCHES. THEY HAVE A REALLY STRONG VISUAL ELEMENT THAT ALIGNS WITH THE TOP OF THE HISTORIC STONE EDGE. SO THE STRETCHING OF THEM WAS JUST NOT VIEWED AS AN APPROPRIATE THING TO DO. AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YOU'RE SAYING, WELL YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING THAT I CAN'T STRETCH 'EM AND THAT I HAVE TO COME ALONG WITH A DIFFERENT MATERIAL TO RAISE THE HEIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S A DIFFICULT THING TO DO. WHAT MATERIAL'S APPROPRIATE? I, I AGREE WITH YOU. IT'S A DIFFICULT THING TO DO SOMETHING WITH MINIMAL PROFILE. IT WOULDN'T NEED TO BE WOOD. IT, IT WOULD NEED TO BE AS MINIMALLY VIS VISUALLY PERCEIVED AS POSSIBLE SINCE THE 30 INCH RAIL WAS HISTORIC AS OF 1915, THAT'S THE, UH, FEATURE THAT WE'RE TRYING TO, UH, BRING BACK. AND SO ANYTHING TO BRING IT UP TO CURRENT CODE HEIGHTS OR SAFETY, UH, ISSUES WOULD BE, UM, CONTRASTING TO THAT. IT COULD BE COMPLIMENTARY TO THAT. IT COULD BE, UH, MADE OUT OF STEEL WITH, UH, STAINLESS STEEL CABLES. IT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WHOLE, UH, SERIES OF, UH, DETAILS THAT, UH, I THINK HAVE BEEN USED SUCCESSFULLY IN OTHER HISTORIC PROPERTIES THAT HAD LOW WOOD RAILS THAT NEEDED TO BRING UP THE, THE TOP OF THE RAIL FOR, UH, SAFETY CONCERNS. SO I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU GUYS SAY IS THAT WE BASICALLY ARE GONNA BE FORCED TO PUT THE RAIL AT THE DIRTY INCHES AND THEN ADD, JUST ADD, ADD, ADD PIECES TO GET US TO THE ELEVATION THAT THE, THAT THE OWNER'S GONNA REQUIRE. I, MR. CHAIR, I, I DON'T, I'M, I THINK WHAT I WAS HEARING IS THAT THE 30, THE, THE, UH, THE REQUEST DID HEIGHT IS FINE AND IT, AND WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT IS THERE, THERE BECOMES THE, YOU DO GET THE, THE, THE PROBLEM OF OF, OF SOMEHOW, UM, UH, BEING IN CONCERT WITH THE BAND THAT EXISTS ON THE BUILDING. BUT I MEAN, THE OPTION IS TO PUT A 30 INCH RAIL THERE AND HAVE AN, AN UNUSABLE PORCH, RIGHT? YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYBODY GO OUT THERE 'CAUSE THEY'LL FALL OVER AND THEN IT'LL BE YOUR FAULT, RIGHT? SO THERE HAS TO BE SOME MODIFICATION MADE FOR THIS FOR, FOR THAT. IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE EXACTLY AS IT IS JUST EXTRUDED. UM, BUT THE, THE SOLUTION FOR, FOR THE PIECE ABOVE THE STONE, IT SEEMS THAT YOU SHOULD GO BACK AND HAVE SOMEONE, UH, UH, YEAH, WE COULD COME BACK WITH THAT SOLUTION. WE COULD ADDRESS THE SOLUTION AT THE STONE IF THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING. BUT I'M, WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M HEARING MR. FISH SAY IS THAT, THAT THAT WOULDN'T BE AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION. WELL, I I'M SUGGESTING THAT IT WOULDN'T BE AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION, RIGHT? MY OPINION. I, I, HERE'S WHAT I'M GONNA DO. UH, UH, I'M, I'M GONNA MOVE TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATION AND AT A SECOND STIPULATION, UM, TO, TO LEAVE THE DOOR OPEN FOR DIFFERENT MATERIAL COMING IN ON THE TOP. I HAVE A MOTION, DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND DISCUSSION? JUST, YOU KNOW, FURTHER DISCUSSION THAT THERE, THE SOLUTION MAY ACTUALLY LIE IN, IN TREATING THE RAILING THAT OCCURS ABOVE THE STONE BAND DIFFERENTLY THAN WHAT IS OCCURRING AT THE WOOD. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENT CONDITION, IT'S A DIFFERENT MATERIAL, IT'S A DIFFERENT DETAIL AND THAT THE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE EXPLORATION OF THAT, UH, WHERE THERE MIGHT BE A CONTINUITY OF A HORIZONTAL OF ONE MATERIAL, BUT HOW IT'S TOUCHING THE HISTORIC MATERIAL BELOW MAY BE DIFFERENT, WHETHER IT'S WOOD OR STONE. I, I MEAN, YOU, YOU KNOW, NOT NOT, NOT TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS, BUT I MEAN, IF YOU HAD A ION THAT CAME OFF OF THAT BAND IN THE SAME MATERIAL AND BROUGHT YOU DOWN, THEN YOU'D BRING THAT LINE DOWN. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S UP TO YOU TO, TO YOUR EXPERT TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT, THAT, THAT FEELS, THAT IT, THAT IT ADAPTED IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT FEEL SO NATURAL THAT NO ONE WOULD EVER KNOW THAT IT HAPPENED. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. THANK YOU. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR A SHORT RECESS. UM, IF WE CAN, WE QUICKLY [B-10 19-7048 Address/Description: 335 TRAILHDRC Case No.: 2018-533Historic District Name: River RoadRIO District: RIO-1Applicant: Katie Bingham, AIA/Mark Odom StudioRequest: Construction of a multi-family residential developmentCity Council Dist.: 1 (Part 2 of 2)] NEED TO REVISIT ITEM B 10. UM, AND I'LL LET, UM, OUR CITY ATTORNEY REPRESENTATIVE ALMA ANO EXPLAIN. UM, WE HAD, WE HAVE EIGHT MEMBERS PRESENT, UM, EIGHT MEMBERS WHO DELIBERATED, UH, CITY CODE REQUIRES PARTICULAR FOR H D R C ACTIONS THAT A MAJORITY OF THE QUORUM PRESENT, UH, SUPPORT A MOTION IN ORDER FOR ACTION TO TAKE PLACE. [04:00:01] SINCE WE HAD FOUR, UM, FOR APPROVAL OF THE PREVIOUS MOTION, THAT IS NOT A MAJORITY OF THE EIGHT REQUIRED. SO A NEW MOTION CAN BE RECRAFTED OR, UM, THE ITEM CAN BE TABLED OR CONTINUED. BUT BECAUSE ONE VOTE WAS ABSTAINED, WE HAD A MAJORITY OF THOSE WHO VOTED, BUT NOT THOSE WHO WERE PRESENT. UH, LEGAL QUESTION, IF ONE OF THE COMMISSIONERS LEFT THE ROOM, IT'S A MAJORITY OF THE, THE CODE SAYS A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS PRESENT WITH QUORUM. SO, SO LONG AS THE DELIBERATIONS ON THAT PARTICULAR MOTION, IF THERE IS ONE, UM, HAS LESS THAN YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, HAS LESS THAN EIGHT PERHAPS. OKAY. ESSENTIALLY WE WOULD GIVE COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ THE OPTION TO RECUSE HIMSELF DURING THE VOTE, OR, OR WE WOULD ENTERTAIN A DIFFERENT MOTION. SORRY, YOU CAN'T RECUSE BECAUSE HE'S BEEN HERE DURING THE DELIBERATION OF CONTINUE MOTION. YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE, OR THE MOTION HAS TO BE DIFFERENT. IF HE WOULD RECUSE, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE EITHER A NEW MOTION OR A CONTINUANCE. BUT THERE HAS ALREADY BEEN DELIBERATION ON THIS ITEM WITH EIGHT MEMBERS PRESENT. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY, WE TAKE A VOTE ON THE SAME MOTION IN CASE SOMEBODY, I DON'T KNOW, MOTION HAS FAILED THAT WAS PRESENTED TODAY. SO DO WE HAVE THE SAME MOTION ON THE FLOOR? DOES SOMEONE WANNA MAKE THE SAME MOTION? SEE IF THE VOTE VOTES CHANGE, THE MOTION FAILED. WELL, THE MOTION FAILED. SO WE NEED A NEW MOTION. I WANNA SEND MY APOLOGIES TO THE APPLICANT AND, AND TO THE REST OF THE APPLICANT'S. CAN I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? SO THE FIRST ONE, SORRY, THE FIRST ONE WAS THE ONE THAT FAILED. THE SECOND ONE CAN BE REMOTION, OR IS THAT THE SEC? THE BOTH MO THERE WERE TWO MOTIONS, BOTH FAILED. UM, YOU CAN TAKE UP ANOTHER MOTION OR THE ITEM IS AUTOMATICALLY CONTINUED. MR. CHAIRMAN, UH, IF WE, IF WE FAILED TO MAKE A MOTION, THIS IS AUTOMATICALLY CONTINUED. AND JUST FOR THE ABUNDANCE OF CLARITY FOR EVERYBODY HERE, IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. SO I MOVE TO CONTINUE. WELL, I'VE, I'VE ACTUALLY GOT ANOTHER MOTION IN CASE WE DON'T WANNA DO THAT. WELL THEN MAYBE NOBODY SHOULD SECOND MY MOTION. I HAVE A SECOND FOR CONTINUANCE. OKAY, DO I HAVE A NEW MOTION? OKAY. SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE, UH, FORWARD WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS, UH, APPROVE WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS EXCEPT FOR ITEMS NUMBER SEVEN AND EIGHT, UM, BECAUSE I BELIEVE ACTUALLY NUMBER EIGHT, UM, WASN'T, WEREN'T, WEREN'T WE, UH, CLEAR THAT ARCHEOLOGY STUDY HAD ALREADY BEEN TAKEN CARE OF. AND SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED. SO THERE IS A REQUIRED INVESTIGATION THAT HAPPENS UPFRONT, BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO COMPLIANCE DURING CONSTRUCTION. UM, AND SO WE WOULDN'T WANT TO LOSE, I MEAN, WE'RE STILL RECOMMENDING THAT THOSE MITIGATING EFFORTS DURING CONSTRUCTION HAPPEN. OKAY, I'M GONNA TRY MOTION, MOTION TO APPROVE ALL STIPULATIONS. UM, AND ALSO FOR THE APPLICANT TO SUBMIT A DETAILED OR A FURTHER DE, UH, PLANS ON THE RETAINING WATERS WITH DESIGN. UM, AND, UH, TO, FOR THE APPLICANT TO SUBMIT, SUBMIT DETAILS OR A MANUFACTURER FOR THE WINDOWS. UH, THAT I THINK THAT WAS A LITTLE UNCLEAR AND THAT YOU WEREN'T SURE, UH, VENDORS, UH, [04:05:01] TO SUBMIT TO STAFF, UM, FINAL WINDOWS OR, UH, WINDOWS. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAYING NAY. AYE. ABSTAIN THAT MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. MOVE TO CONTINUE. SECOND MOTION. SECOND TO CONTINUE. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? AYE. NAY. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. NOW I WOULD LIKE A SHORT RECESS AND I APOLOGIZE TO THE OTHER APPLICANTS I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE, UH, HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION. WE'RE ON TO I BELIEVE CASE B 12. UH, ITEM B 12 HAS ACTUALLY WITHDRAWN THEIR [B-13 19-6980 Address/Description: 3810 N ST MARYS/3910 N St Mary's HDRC Case No.: 2019-510 Landmark Name: Brackenridge Park RIO District: RIO-1 Applicant: Alonzo Alston/Sol Studio Architects Request: Signage, exterior modifications of the train depot and site modifications City Council Dist.: 2] APPLICATION. WE WILL MOVE ON TO B 13. OKAY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF, FOR APPROPRIATE, OR EXCUSE ME, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL SIGNAGE AT 39 10 NORTH ST. MARY'S. UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF SIGNAGE WITH A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS, UH, IN CONSIDERATION OF TIME. UM, I WON'T ADDRESS THOSE, BUT YOU CAN FIND THOSE IN OUR RECOMMENDATION. YES. WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF, PLEASE? ALONZO ALSTON WITH SOUL STUDIO ARCHITECTS. I'D LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR ENDURANCE. UM, SO BEHIND ME IS TIM MORROW, UH, C E O OF THE SAN ANTONIO ZOO, AND BILL PINNELL, REPRESENTATIVE FROM PARKS AND REC. UH, JUST GONNA DO THE INTRODUCTION HERE REGARDING OUR, UM, PROPOSAL TO THE COMMISSION. UM, WE ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH STAFF COMMENTS AS THEY RELATE TO RECOMMENDATIONS ONE, TWO, AND THREE. HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT IN AGREEMENT WITH RECOMMENDATIONS FOUR OR FIVE AND SIX. THE TEAM HAS PREPARED A PRESENTATION ILLUSTRATING REASONING FOR THIS CONCLUSION AS WE BELIEVE THEY RELATE TO A MORE UNSCREENED BUILDING TYPE OR MODEL. EXAMPLE, EXHIBITS WILL INDICATE REAL WORLD CON UH, CONDITIONS FOR THIS PROJECT. IN ADDITION, THE SOME PRACTICAL REASONS FOR THE SIGN PLACEMENT WILL BE ADDRESSED, INCLUDING STAFFING RECOMMENDATIONS TO LOWER ONE OF THE SIGNS TO SIX FEET, WHICH WOULD CONFLICT WITH TEXAS ACCESSIBILITY STANDARDS, AS WELL AS THE ABILITY TO SEE SIGNAGE THROUGH EXISTING VEGETATION. FURTHERMORE, THE FOLLOWING EXHIBITS WILL ILLUSTRATE THE REDUCTION OF SIGNAGE, OF EXISTING SIGNAGE, I SHOULD, I SHOULD SAY, DUE TO THE FEEDBACK FROM ZOO LEADERSHIP AND PARKS AND RECREATION LEADERSHIP. THANK YOU. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME, AND I'VE BEEN HUNGRY EVER SINCE VELVET TACOS WENT VERY FIRST. . UM, JUST GONNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE TIMELINE OF THE PROPOSAL. WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT FOR A COUPLE YEARS AND THEN, UH, IT, THE PACE PICKED UP IN THE LAST YEAR. AND SO HERE'S WHAT WE ARE TODAY. BUT, UM, CURRENT CONDITIONS, IT'S CURRENTLY THE TRAIN DEPOT THAT OPERATED, UM, FOR MANY YEARS BEFORE THE ZOO TOOK OVER IN 2001. IT HAS ABOUT 106 SQUARE FEET OF EXISTING SIGNAGE ON IT THAT, UH, WILL BE REMOVED AS PART OF THE PACKAGE. AND THE NEW LOCATION, THE NEW SIGNAGE YOU'LL SEE IN THE, IN THE NEXT SLIDES IS ABOUT 40 FEET. SO WE'VE GOT A SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION IN SIGNAGE. UM, WE RECEIVED A, WORKING WITH STARBUCKS. WE RECEIVED A FULL STARBUCKS SIGN PACKAGE WITH THEM FOR THAT BUILDING. UM, PRIOR TO MEETING WITH SAN ANTONIO PARKS AND RECREATION, WHICH WE DO ON ANY PROJECT, UH, WE REMOVED, UM, THE STARBUCKS MEDALLION ON THE EAST ELEVATION. WE REMOVED CHANNEL LETTERS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. WE REALLY WANTED TO PROTECT THE VIEW FROM THE HISTORIC, UM, WATER CROSSING FROM SIGNAGE, UM, FURTHER, AND THAT WE STARTED MEETING WITH PARKS AND RECREATION. UM, WE, AGAIN, NO VISIBLE SIGNAGE FROM THE HISTORICAL LOW WATER CROSSING WAS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE TAKING PHOTOS DOWN THERE. UH, WE REMOVED AN ARROW FROM THE STARBUCKS MEDALLION ON THE SOUTH WALL, WHICH YOU'LL SEE. WE REMOVED A PERMANENT SIGN CONCEPT FROM THE PYLON SIGN OUT IN FRONT OF THE BUILDING. AND THEN THE CURRENT CONDITION IS THE BUILDING BUILDING IS, UM, SURROUNDED 360 DEGREES BY VERY LARGE TREES AND A LOT OF BUSHES. SO IT'S A, IT'S A REALLY HIDDEN BUILDING. AND EVEN THE CONCEPT THAT STARBUCKS CAME UP WITH DIDN'T TAKE THAT TO ACCOUNT. UM, AND CURRENTLY THE SIGN PROPOSAL THAT YOU'LL SEE TODAY IS ONLY VISIBLE BY PEDESTRIANS WALKING, UM, FROM THE PARKING LOT TO AND FROM THE ZOO. IT'S NONE OF IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. SO THE NEXT SLIDE IS A VIEW FROM MULBERRY, WHICH WAS ONE OF THE, UM, QUESTIONS THAT CAME UP IN THE, UM, I'M CLICKING , UM, FROM MULBERRY TO SEE WHAT YOU BE ABLE TO SEE DOWN THE SIGNS DOWN THE STREET. AND YOU COULD SEE, YOU COULD NOT EVEN SEE THE BUILDINGS DOWN THERE. THE, THE TRAIN DEPOT'S ACTUALLY HALF A MILE DOWN FROM MULBERRY. SO NO SIGNAGE WILL BE VISIBLE FROM THAT INTERSECTION. AND THIS IS JUST A STREET VIEW OF THAT. AND THEN THAT SHOWS THE DISTANCE FROM MULBERRY DOWN TO THE, UH, THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE. AND THEN THIS [04:10:01] IS SOME CURRENT EXISTING SIGNAGE FROM THE, THE BUILDING AS IT EXISTS TODAY AS A CAFE. ON THE FRONT IS A QUARRY CROSSING SIGN, WHICH IS A BRANDED SIGN FOR THE BUILDING. AND THEN YOU SEE THE TWO, UM, BUILDING SIGNS UP ON THE TOP THAT ARE, UM, JUST SAY TRAINED CAFE FROM THAT'S BEEN THERE PROBABLY SINCE 2001. AND THIS IS SOME OF THE, UM, SIGNAGE THAT STARBUCKS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED TO US. UM, AGAIN, IT DIDN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE TREES. UM, THIS MEDALLION THAT FACES, UM, NORTH ST. MARY'S, IT CAN'T SEE IT THROUGH THE TREES. WE, WE REMOVED THAT THERE WAS SOME LETTERING ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. SO THIS IS THE RIVER CROSSING SIDE, THE STARBUCKS ON THE, ON THE ROOF LINE. WE TOOK THAT OFF. SO WHERE THESE ARROWS ARE IS SIGNS WE TOOK OFF BEFORE WE MET WITH PARKS AND REC. AND THEN INSIDE ONE OF THE WINDOWS IS A SIGN THAT WAS VISIBLE FROM THE OUTSIDE. WE MOVED THAT DOWN FURTHER INTO THE BUILDING, SO THAT WOULD NOT BE, UH, VISIBLE FROM, UM, THE RIVER CROSSING. AND SO THE REVISED VERSION JUST LEAVES, UM, THE, THERE'S ONE SIGN IN VISIBLE INSIDE, ALMOST LIKE A MENU SIGN WITH THE MEDALLION ON IT. AND THEN THE TWO MEDALLIONS ON THE WALL ON THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING. UM, THIS IS, UM, STARBUCKS ORIGINAL VERSION IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TRAIN DEPOT FROM THE PARKING LOT OF THE ZOO. SO THIS IS, UM, FACING SOUTH. WE REMOVED, THERE WAS AN ARROW UNDERNEATH THE STARBUCKS MEDALLION. WE'D REMOVED THAT. UM, AND THEN JUST LEFT THE MEDALLION ON THAT BUILDING ON THAT, ON THAT WALL. UM, THESE ARE SOME OF THE CURRENT CONDITIONS. SO THIS IS A VIEW DOWN FROM THE LOWER WATER CROSSING. UM, YOU CAN SEE THERE'S EXISTING SIGNAGE ON THE ROOF NOW THAT WE TAKE OFF. SO THAT WOULD REMOVE ALL THE SIGNAGE OFF THE BUILDING THAT'S VIEWABLE FROM DOWN THERE. UM, AND THEN THE OTHER, THE PICTURE IS, UM, NORTH ST. MARY'S, UM, COMING INTO THE ZOO. SO YOU CAN SEE, UM, YOU CAN'T SEE ANY OF THE, ACTUALLY THE BUILDING COMING INTO THE PARKING LOT DOWN NORTH ST. MARY'S. AND I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER NOW BACK TO ALONZO TO TALK ABOUT THE, UM, TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF THE SUN. 'CAUSE I'M JUST A SOCIOLOGY MAJOR. AND GET AN ARCHITECT. YES. UH, SO CAN I, CAN I INTERRUPT HERE AND JUST ASK ABSOLUTELY THE STAFF FOR SOME CLARIFICATION. UM, WE ARE LOOKING AT THE SLIDESHOW THAT WE'RE SEEING HERE THAT THAT WASN'T IN OUR PACKET. THIS IS A LATE CORRECT. IT'S THE SAME DESIGNED BUT PRESENTED IN A DIFFERENT WAY. WE'RE JUST KIND OF TELLING THE STORY. OKAY. YES, SIR. UM, THE, THE REDUCTION IN SIGN THAT THE SIGNAGE THAT WAS PROPOSED WAS THAT REVIEWED BY STAFF AND REFLECTED IN THE CURRENT STIPULATIONS. THIS IS, UH, I BELIEVE WHAT THE APPLICANT'S SHOWING IS SIGNAGE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED WELL BEFORE AN APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED TO STAFF. ESSENTIALLY, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT ALL OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE SHOWN FEATURE A METAL FACE OR INDIRECT LIGHTING. UM, THERE IS A ROOF SIGN THAT'S PROPOSED. UM, TECHNICALLY THAT SIGN IS PROHIBITED BY THE GUIDELINES IN THE U D C. UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THAT SIGN MAYBE SHIFT TO A LOCATION. UM, ON AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE, UH, THE GABLE PER, OR EXCUSE ME, THE DORMER ELEMENT PERHAPS, UM, WHERE IT WOULD FEATURE APPEAR MORE AS A WALL SIGN, UM, COMPARABLE TO WHERE THE BANNERS ARE CURRENTLY DISPLAYED. UM, AND THEN SA STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT ON THE POLE SIGN IT'D BE REDUCED TO SIX FEET TALL. I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT NOTED THAT, UH, DUE TO A D A ACCESS THAT'S, OR A CODE, UM, THAT, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, BUT THAT INSTEAD OF THAT SIGN FEATURING TWO BLADES THAT IT ONLY FACED ONE. SO ESSENTIALLY FROM EACH DIRECTION, NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, AND WEST, THERE WOULD BE ONE SIGN, UH, VISIBLE TO OR FROM THE BUILDING. DURING OUR PRESENTATION, WE'RE JUST SHOWING THE REAL WORLD APPLICATION OF, UH, HOW THE PROPOSED SIGNS, UH, WILL, WILL BE FEATURED, UH, TO A VIEWER, UH, AS OPPOSED TO STREET VIEW. AND IN THIS, IN THIS SLIDE IS JUST SHOWING HOW MUCH THE SIGN IS BEING SCREENED BY EXISTING TREES. AND I'M PRETTY SURE AS OVER TIME IT'LL FILL IN EVEN EVEN MORE. UM, THIS SLIDE IS KIND OF ILLUSTRATING THE SIGNS THAT WERE REMOVED, UH, KIND OF IN MORE DETAIL THAN, UH, MR. MORROW KIND OF SHOWED BEFORE. UM, AND IT ALSO, UH, INDICATES THAT THAT WALL MOUNTED SIGN ON, THE PICTURE ON THE LOWER RIGHT, UH, HAS BEEN REMOVED FOR A D A ACCESS AS WELL. AND WE MADE IT INTO A POLE SIGN. AND THE REASON WHY THE, UH, SIGN FACES HAVE, HAVE THE SIGN PANEL HAS TWO FACES IS BECAUSE OF THE, THE FLOW OF PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC LEAVING THE TRAIN AND ALSO THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC COMING FROM THE PARKING LOT. SO WE WANTED TO GET VISIBILITY FROM PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC FROM BOTH SIDES. UM, THIS SLIDE IS INDICATING THE, UH, SIMILAR INFORMATION BEFORE WHERE WE REMOVE THE ARROW THAT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE, AS WELL AS REMOVING THE, UH, STARBUCKS SIGN THAT'S ON THE NORTH SIDE. THIS IS ANOTHER ILLUSTRATION OF THE SAME THING. AND THIS, UH, EXHIBIT IS SHOWING THE ROOF MOUNTED SIGN. WE, UH, WORKED WITH THE STARBUCKS VENDOR, ASSIGNED VENDOR AND HELPED THEM, [04:15:01] UH, COME UP WITH A DETAILED THAT DOES NOT MAKE A PERMANENT, UH, ATTACHMENT TO THE ROOF LINE. UH, I THINK THEY WERE ORIGINALLY, UH, DESIGNING, DESIGNING A SYSTEM THAT DRILLED THROUGH THE ROOF. AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS SOMETHING THAT IS GONNA ATTACH TO THE RIBS OF THE ROOF. AND THEN THE EXHIBIT ON THE RIGHT IS SHOWING THAT WE ARE ELIMINATING THE PYLON SIGN PROPOSAL. THIS IS THE PROPOSED SOLUTION. ARE ALL OF THE MEDALLIONS, ARE THEY INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED? THE PLAN IS FOR THE ALL THE MEDALLIONS TO BE ELECTRIFIED? YES. IS THERE ANY, UH, OPPORTUNITY LIKE ON THE SOUTH FACADE, UH, FOR THAT MEDALLION TO BE ILLUMINATED FROM A SOFFIT MOUNTED LIGHT AND NOT BEING INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED? THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO RAISE THE ISSUE THAT THESE SIGNS WILL NOT BE ILLUMINATED ALL NIGHT LONG. UM, I THINK TIM CAN PROBABLY SPEAK A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO WHAT THE ACTUAL OPERATING HOURS WILL BE IN WHICH THE SIGNS WILL GO DARK AT A CERTAIN TIME. BRECKENRIDGE PARK CLOSES AT 11:00 PM SO WE WOULD BE LIGHTS OFF AT 11:00 PM THE ONLY LIGHTS REMAINING ON THAT AREA THAT THEY LEAVE THE PARKING LIGHTS ON FOR SECURITY DOWN THERE AT THE PARK. BUT, UM, THESE LIGHTS WOULD TURN OFF AT 11:00 PM CONSIDERED PUTTING THAT, UH, ROOF MOUNTED SIGNAGE ON ONE OF THE GABLES, LIKE STAFF COMMENTED. SO AS STAFF, UH, RECOMMENDED, UH, TO PUT IT AT THE, UH, CLEAR STORY AT THE TOP OF THE BUILDING, WE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD ACTUALLY, UH, BE A DETRIMENT TO THE, THE PLACEMENT OF THAT, THAT SIGN. NUMBER ONE, BECAUSE IT'D BE MORE PROMINENT. NUMBER TWO, BECAUSE THE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC THAT WE'RE TRYING TO ATTRACT, UH, WE WILL TOTALLY IGNORE THAT, THAT SIGN BEING UP THERE. BUT IT, IT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER IF THE SIGN WERE AT A LOWER, LOWER, UH, ROOF LINE. MR. CHAIR, IS IT APPROPRIATE TO MAKE A MOTION? UM, SO I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE PROPOSAL AS PRESENTED. A MOTION TO HAVE A SECOND, UH, STAFF WILL NOTE THAT THE ROOF SIGN IS PROHIBITED AS PRESENTED. UM, SO MAY THE COMMISSION KEEP THAT IN MIND DURING A MOTION IN, IN INSIDE OF THE MOTION JUST TO RESPOND TO STAFF? IT, IT, IT, I AGREE WITH THE ARCHITECTS. IT, IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE BUILDING TO BE WHERE STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT IT GO THERE. IT KIND OF DISAPPEARS WITHIN THE ROOF LINE. AND I MEAN, AT SOME POINT IT'S A STARBUCKS, RIGHT? SO IT, YOU IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A BRAND AND, AND PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW WHERE IT'S AT AND IT'S, IT'S SUBTLE. SO I I I LIKE TO KEEP MY MOTION ON, ON THE FLOOR AND ASK FOR A SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL THE OPPOSED SAY NAY. NAY, NAY. I THINK THAT MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. LEMME JUST TRY TO STAND. UM, OKAY, SO RECOMMENDATION ONE, TWO, AND THREE ARE FINE ON THE BLADE SIGNS, UM, THE A D A IT'S SEVEN FEET BECAUSE OF THE A D A. SO YOU JUST, YOU'RE GOING SEVEN FEET? YES MA'AM. AT THE TOP OF THE SIGN AT THE CLEARANCE. OKAY. AND I, I SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THAT SIGN WAS ACTUALLY REDUCED FROM 24 INCH DIAMETER TO 18 INCH DIAMETER BY THE ZOO. IT WAS SOMETHING THAT STARBUCKS WANTED TO DO IS A LARGER SIZE, AND THE ZOO ACTUALLY HAD THEM REDUCE THAT SIZE AND EXPLAIN WHY IT HAS TO BE A POLE AND NOT JUST A BLADE. WE ORIGINALLY, OR ACTUALLY THE, THE STARBUCKS DESIGNERS PROPOSED THE SIGN TO BE ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING AT THE EVE, HOWEVER IT CREATED HEAD CLEARANCE ISSUES. SO IT WAS THEN PROPOSED TO DO IT ON A POLE SO THAT WE COULD GET THE HEAD CLEARANCE NECESSARY FOR HANDICAP ACCESS. THERE'S SOME GUIDELINES, RIGHT? SO THE ROOF SIGN IS, AND I THINK STAFF'S GOT IT RIGHT ON THAT ONE. UM, IT'S NOT 'CAUSE OF BRAND OR I MEAN THERE IS SOME GUIDELINES THAT WE DO SOMETIMES CAN BE A LITTLE BIT FLEXIBLE. I THINK THIS ONE, UM, IT IS A HISTORIC BUILDING AND I THINK WE GOTTA BE CAREFUL WITH, UM, THAT ONE. I SHOULD POINT OUT THAT PART OF THE BUILDING, IT'S ACTUALLY CIRCA WHEN THE ZOO WAS BUILT, HOWEVER, WHEN WE WERE IN THE ATTIC WITH THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, HE DID IDENTIFYING THAT THE FRONT PORTION [04:20:01] OF THE BUILDING WHERE THE SIGN IS BEING PROPOSED, IT WAS AN ADD-ON IN THE EIGHTIES. SO WHEN WE LOOKED AT THAT, WE KNOW THAT THAT PORTION OF THE BUILDING IS NOT TECHNICALLY HISTORIC. I CAN CLARIFY THAT CORRECT. BUT THIS IS PART OF BRACKENRIDGE PARK, WHICH HOLDS HISTORIC DESIGNATION, UH, AS WELL AS LOCATED WITHIN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. UH, SO, UH, BOTH OF THOSE, UH, DOCUMENTS ARE GONNA, UH, PROVIDE INFORMATION OR PROVIDE GUIDANCE FOR SIGNAGE, UH, OVERALL SIZES, LIGHTING AND MATERIALS. UM, STAFF GENERALLY FINDS THE, THE SIZE PROPOSED FOR THESE SIGNAGE FOR THE SIGNS AND THE LOCATION TO BE APPROPRIATE. UM, WE JUST HAVE A SLIGHT CONCERN IN REGARDS TO THE INTERNAL ILLUMINATION, UH, WHICH IS NOT RECOMMENDED BY THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES. SO, SO THAT'S THE OTHER THING. UM, SORRY, I WAS GONNA JUST QUICKLY ASK THE ROOF SIGNAGE, WHICH, UH, RECOMMENDATION IS THAT ADDRESSED IN? WHICH IS THAT? UM, IT'S NOTED IN, IN F UH, SINCE IT'S PROHIBITED, IT'S NOT INCLUDED AS A REQUEST ITEM. OKAY. UM, BUT STAFF HAS ADDRESSED IT IN F TO GIVE GUIDANCE TO THE APPLICANT FOR WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE OR WOULD STAFF WHAT STAFF WOULD FIND TO BE APPROPRIATE, UM, WHEN THAT REQUEST RETURNED. BUT THEN YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOU COULD PROBABLY GET AWAY WITH THE INTERNAL LIGHTNING ON SOME OF THE SIGNAGE. YES. WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING WITH THE C E O, UM, A COMPROMISE ON THE STARBUCKS SIGN ON THE ROOF. IF THAT WERE NOT ILLUMINATED FROM INTERNALLY AND WE PROPOSE AN EXTERNAL LIGHT, UM, IN LIEU OF THAT, WOULD THAT BE MORE ACCEPTABLE TO MAINTAIN THAT, THAT SIGN ON THE ROOF? UM, SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, IN THE U D C IN RIO, THERE'S A LIST OF SIGN TYPES THAT ARE PROHIBITED. AND SO QUOTE, ROOF-MOUNTED SIGNS END QUOTE ARE PROHIBITED. SO WE'RE HAVING A HARD TIME JUST OBJECTIVELY FIGURING OUT HOW THIS IS EVEN A REQUEST THAT COULD BE ENTERTAINED. SURE. SO MY THOUGHT ON THAT IS WE CAN'T REALLY ENTERTAIN THAT. I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT IT THERE. AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION TO PUT IT ON THE WALL ELEMENT IS I VIEW PROBABLY NOT ONLY OPTION FORWARD, UH, FOR THAT PARTICULAR PIECE. UM, UH, THERE WAS SOME VISIBILITY PROBLEMS. IT'S HIGHER, RIGHT? YES. UM, I THINK THE COMMISSION IS GIVING YOU THAT WE WOULD SUPPORT IF YOU PUT IT ON THE GABLE, RIGHT? MAYBE. I BELIEVE WE'RE WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT, BUT THEN THE OTHER ISSUE IS THE INTERNAL ILLUMINATION. I THINK WE'RE WILLING TO COMPROMISE THAT AS WELL. SO, WHICH, WHICH OF THE SIGNS ARE ARE DIFFICULT IF, IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO ACCOMMODATE WITH A INDIRECT ILLUMINATION? I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THE BLADE, THAT THE DOUBLE BLADE SIGN ON A POLE IS GONNA BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO PROVIDE A IN INDIRECT LIGHTING ON. AND I WOULD SUPPORT, UH, FOR THAT PIECE TO BE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED. SO WHAT IF WE, WHAT IF WE WENT WITH THAT AS, UH, INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED, BUT ONLY DID IT IN ONE DIRECTION? WE ONLY PROVIDED ALLOWED FOR ONE OF THOSE SIGNS INSTEAD OF THE TWO? I WOULD SUPPORT IT IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. UM, I'M READY TO GO MOTION. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY YOU WANNA TRY. OKAY, SO A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, ITEM ONE, TWO, AND THREE WITH STAFF STIPULATION ITEM FOUR WITH AS PRESENTED, RIGHT? IT'S A POLE SEVEN FEET AT THE TERRANCE AND INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED ITEM NUMBER FIVE FROM, THAT'S THE WALL THAT HAD THE ONLY, ONLY STIPULATION I WOULD BE SAYING IS INDIRECTLY ILLUMINATED. AND ITEM NUMBER SIX, THAT ONE AS APPROVED AS PRESENTED. SECOND. DID YOU, SO THE ROOF SIGN IS NOT PART OF THIS? CORRECT? A A PROHIBITED SIGN CANNOT BE PART OF THE REQUEST. OKAY. AND THEN JUST A COMMENT TO THE APPLICANT, IF YOU WERE TO GO AHEAD AND, YOU KNOW, SUBMIT ANOTHER, UH, SIGN FOR THAT. I WOULD, I WOULD SUPPORT A SIGN ON THE GABLE INDIRECTLY ILLUMINATED THERE ON THE GABLE LAND OR ON THE, THE STONEWALL WHERE YOU HAVE THE SOUTH FACING MEDALLION, PERHAPS THAT, UH, STONEWALL COULD BE LOOKED AT AS A, A BASE FOR SIGNAGE THERE. AND TO CLARIFY YOU MEANT GABLE THE CLEAR STORY. OKAY. JUST, JUST WANTED TO BE SURE. I THINK ALSO JUST [04:25:01] TO ADD A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY TO IT, UM, THAT, UH, THAT PARTICULAR REQUEST ITEM WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THIS, SO WE CAN'T TAKE ACTIONS BUT, UH, SPECIFICALLY ON IT, IS THAT CORRECT? STAFF? I THINK STAFF HAS THAT DIRECTION SO WE KNOW WHAT TO DO. UH, FOR CLARIFICATION, UM, WAS ITEM FIVE AS SUBMITTED OR WAS THERE A STIPULATION INCLUDED? NO, NO, NO. ITEM FIVE, THE ONLY STIPULATION WOULD BE INDIRECTLY ILLUMINATED, CORRECT? YES. NOT BF METAL OR WOOD FACES. SO THE MATERIALITY CAN REMAIN. EXCELLENT. MOTION AND A SECOND? UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I OPPOSED A NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [B-14 19-7028 Address/Description: 506 N MESQUITE ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-500 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Adrian Aguileta Request: Construction of an addition and fenestration modifications City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 14 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 505 0 6 NORTH MESQUITE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE DAMAGED WOOD ELEMENTS INCLUDING SIDING AND TRIM. TWO, PERFORM FOUNDATION REPAIR. THREE, TO PAINT THE STRUCTURE. FOUR TO MODIFY THE EXISTING FENESTRATION PATTERN AND INSTALL WOOD WINDOWS ON THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. AND FIVE, TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION TO BE LOCATED TO THE SIDE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH THREE BASED ON FINDING B WITH STIPULATIONS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM FOUR. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM FIVE. THERE ARE DETAILS IN STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IF NEEDED. HOPE YOU GUYS ARE GETTING PAID OVERTIME. UM, YEAH, SO I'M GONNA KEEP THIS PRETTY SIMPLE. WE, UH, AND I'M NOT A PRO, SO THIS IS MY FIRST TIME UP HERE. UM, WE BASICALLY, WE WILL ABIDE BY THE, UH, THE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN ASKED OF US TO PUT IN WOOD WINDOWS IN THE PLACES THAT THEY ARE. WE DO NEED TO MAKE AN ADDITIONAL WINDOW, UM, IN THE FRONT WHERE THERE WAS, UH, PREVIOUSLY AN ADDITION. THERE'S NO WINDOW FOR THAT ROOM FACING THE FRONT, BUT WE WILL KEEP THEM THE SAME SIZE AS THE HISTORIC WINDOWS. UM, THAT'S JUST THE STREET VIEW. AND THEN THE DESIGN PLAN WILL SHOW, OH, THAT'S A GOOD ONE TOO. BUT THE DESIGN WITH THE BIG PICTURE WINDOWS WILL SHRINK THOSE BACK DOWN TO THE, UM, HISTORICAL SIZE. UH, AND THERE WILL BE THREE OF THEM IN THE FRONT. BUT THE REMAINING REMAINING WINDOWS THAT WE CAN REPAIR, WE WILL REPAIR. OTHERWISE WE'LL REPLACE THEM WITH WOOD WINDOWS. UM, CAN I ASK YOU, I'M, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, STAFF CAN FURTHER WORK WITH THE APPLICANT TO ENSURE HEAD HEIGHT, SEAL HEIGHT, AND, UH, WIDTH, SIR. APPROPRIATE. UM, AND THEN IN TERMS OF THE ADDITION, WE WERE ASKED TO MOVE THAT TO THE REAR OF THE, UH, LOT, WHICH IS FRANKLY JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WITH THE WAY THE HOUSE WAS LAID OUT ON THE LOT. UM, I KNOW THAT WITHIN THE GUIDELINES WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO A SIDE, UH, ADDITION. AND THE WAY THAT WE DESIGNED IT WAS, UH, PURPOSEFUL WITH THE LOT. IF YOU GO TO THE SURVEY I'VE JUST BRIEFLY DESCRIBED THERE, THE CURRENT PROPOSAL IS THE LEFT, THE 300 SQUARE FEET THERE TO THE LEFT, UM, AND THE REAR GOES BEYOND THE, UH, EASEMENT TO DO THE SAME AMOUNT OF SQUARE FOOT TO MAKE THIS PROJECT ACTUALLY FEASIBLE. CAN, CAN, CAN I POSE A QUESTION TO STAFF? WHY, WHY, UH, THE, UH, THE PROPOSAL TO GO OUT THE SIDE AS OPPOSED TO, I MEAN, OUT THE BACK AS OPPOSED TO THE SIDE? SO OUR GUIDELINES SPECIFICALLY NOTE THAT ADDITION SHOULD NOT, UH, MODIFY THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES MASSING TO AN EXTENT TO WHERE IT BECOMES UNIDENTIFIABLE. UH, SO HERE'S AN ELEVATION, A FRONT ELEVATION OF THE PROPOSED ADDITION. SO YOU CAN SEE THE ORIGINAL FORM OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, IF WE JUMP DOWN AND LOOK AT THE PLAN, WE SEE THAT TWO OR THREE FEET REMOVED FROM THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE WOULD BE A FACADE PLANE THAT NEARLY DOUBLES THE WIDTH OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, SO ESSENTIALLY THE PROPOSED ADDITION ON THE SIDE WOULD DOUBLE THE WIDTH OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE ALTERING THE, THE HISTORIC MASS. AGAIN, PROFILE OF THE FRONT FACADE. UH, SPECIFICALLY IS ASKED THAT THE APPLICANT EXPLORE A REAR ADDITION. UM, IF THE APPLICANT STRUGGLES TO FIND A REAR OR TO BE ABLE TO DESIGN A REAR ADDITION THAT HAS ADEQUATE SPACE, UH, STAFF THEN FINDS THAT THE APPLICANT COULD EXTEND TO THE SIDE. HOWEVER, STAFF WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE APPLICANT INCREASE THE SETBACK FROM THE FRONT FACADE SIGNIFICANTLY. UH, SO RATHER THAN TAKING A SIDE AND THEN BACK APPROACH, WE WOULD ASK A BACK AND THEN SIDE APPROACH. [04:30:01] WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. IN, IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES YOU CHANGED THE MATERIALITY OF, OF, OF AN ADDITION THAT'S NOT HISTORIC. IS THAT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION TO MAINTAINING SOMEONE'S EXPERIENCE? LOOKING AT THE BUILDING AND SEEING WHERE THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE WAS? I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT IN AN ADAPTIVE, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. THE MASSING WOULD STILL BE THERE. UH, SO WHILE WE WOULD ACTUALLY, UM, A CHANGE IN MATERIALS WOULD PROBABLY BE OR WOULD BE A NEGATIVE APPROACH PER OUR GUIDELINES, WHICH NOTE THAT MATERIALS NEED TO BE COMPARABLE. UH, SO FOR ADDITIONS, WE TYPICALLY RECOMMEND THAT THE APPLICANT MATCH THE EXISTING MATERIALS. UH, IF THE EXISTING MATERIALS CAN'T BE MATCHED, SO SAY, UH, WOOD SIDING TO A WOOD SIDING, WE RECOMMEND THAT A COMPOSITE SIDING WITH THE MATCHING PROFILE BE INSTALLED. UH, SO, UH, IT, THAT, THAT WOULD NOT CHANGE THE MASSING. IT, WE WOULD STILL HAVE THE MASSING ISSUE. AND THAT IS THE PLAN TO USE THE SAME MATERIALS, WOOD MATERIALS, YOU GO BACK TO YOUR SITE? THE, JUST THE SITE? YEAH, THAT ONE. SO IF TO GET TO SQUARE FOOTAGE, IF YOU KEPT IT, IF YOU MADE IT A REAR ADDITION AND KEPT IT INSIDE THE SETBACK. WELL, THE ACTUAL SETBACK, SO THE SURVEY SETBACK SAYS FIVE FEET, BUT THE PER OTHER GUIDELINES, WE HAD 15 FEET FROM THE CITY. BUT EITHER WAY TO KEEP THE SAME SQUARE FOOTAGE, THERE WOULDN'T BE. AND WE EXPLORED MULTIPLE OPTIONS WITH AN ARCHITECT. BUT THE SIDE PROPOSED ROUTE WAS THE, UM, MOST FEASIBLE AND MOST THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE HOUSE, IT'S ONLY 950 SQUARE FEET AND WE'RE ADDING 300. AND IF WE APPROVED IT, HE WOULD HAVE TO GO GET A FULL ADJUSTMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WELL, I BELIEVE WHAT THE APPLICANT'S NOTING IS AS PROPOSED, THERE WOULD NOT NEED TO BE A VARIANCE, UH, FOR THE SIDE SETBACK. UM, WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AT THE REAR, THE APPLICANT WOULD NEED TO OBTAIN A VARIANCE. I I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE PROPOSED SIDE SETBACK. CAN IT SHIFT FURTHER TOWARD THE REAR? AND IF SO, HOW MUCH CAN THE CURRENT PROPOSED SHIFT FURTHER TO THE REAR? WELL, THERE'S ALSO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FRONT ELEVATION, THERE IS QUITE A SLOPE TO IT. AND THE FURTHER BACK TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY YOU GO, THE HIGHER THAT SLOPE, WHICH MEANS YOU HAVE TO CUT FURTHER IN AND, UH, CREATE A RETAINING WALL, WHICH ALSO, UM, LIMITS THE ELEVATION. IT'S NOT QUITE SHOWN ON THAT. OR ACTUALLY YOU CAN SEE ON THE SECOND, UM, FROM THE TOP HOW THE ELEVATION SLOPES. SO IF YOU DO THE ADDITION FURTHER BACK, YOU PUSH THE FOUNDATION DOWN INTO THE ELEVATION, IT, IT WOULD, IT WOULD SEEM THAT THE APPROPRIATE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO MOVE OUT THE SIDE OF THE, OF THE STRUCTURE. I MEAN, DID, DID YOU HAVE A STIPULATION AND STIPULATION IS IS, OR, OR THE CITY, RIGHT. WOULD, WOULD HAVE A, A, A RULE THAT IS NOT SITE SPECIFIC. THE GUIDELINE ACTUALLY STATES YOU CAN DO A SIDE OR REAR. WE TRIED THE REAR, WE CAN'T DO THE REAR. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT, BUT TO, TO CITY STAFF THAT THERE, THERE WOULD MOST DEFINITELY EXIST SITUATIONS WHERE THE SITE ITSELF DICTATES. SO THAT'S WHY WE WOULD BE HERE, RIGHT? CORRECT. THESE ARE STAFF IS SIMPLY FOLLOWING THE GUIDELINES AND PROVIDING A RECOMMENDATION, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THAT'S CONSISTENT. UH, THE COMMISSION COULD CERTAINLY, UM, TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, UH, SPECIFIC SITE CONSTRAINTS SUCH AS, SUCH AS THIS LOCK CONFIGURATION. CAN, CAN I ASK THE EXACT SAME QUESTION AGAIN, ? SURE. CAN YOU SHIFT THE ADDITION TO THE REAR? AND WE HAVE THE, THIS DRAWING UP. OH, GO, GO. WHERE'D IT GO? WHERE IT SHOWS THE ELEVATIONS, THE DRAWING, UH, FOR ONE ON THE TOP. THAT'S THE ADDITION, CORRECT? WHAT AM I LOOKING AT UP THERE? THAT'S THE SIDE OF, YES, THAT'S THE ADDITION FROM THE SIDE ADDITION. SO WHEN I ASK, CAN THAT SHIFT CLOSER TO THE REAR, WHICH WOULD BEGIN TO REMEDY THE POSITION OF THE MASS, UM, AS IT'S IMPACTING THE HISTORICAL ELEVATION? IN OTHER WORDS, WE COULD TOLERATE MORE MASS IF IT'S FURTHER BACK FROM THE FRONT. SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S GONNA CUT INTO THE EARTH, UM, AND IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT HOW MUCH IT CUT, LIKE THE LEVEL OF THE FOUNDATION WOULD BE AT THE LEVEL OF THE DIRT, BASICALLY. WELL, I'M JUST, WHICH IS NOT UP TO CO BUILDING CODES. I, I I UNDERSTAND. I'M JUST ASKING AGAIN, BECAUSE I'M TALKING ABOUT TAKING THE REAR LINE OF THAT ADDITION TO THE REAR LINE OF THE HOUSE. SURE. AND THE ADDITION, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING IF IT'S POSSIBLE. YES, IT IS POSSIBLE. SO THAT'S ABOUT FIVE OR FIVE, SIX FEET IT LOOKS LIKE. SO BY SHIFTING THAT MASS TOWARD THE REAR BY FIVE OR SIX FEET, IT REDUCES THE IMPACT OF THE ADDITION ON THE FRONT ELEVATION. SO I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT IT SHIFT ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE REAR PROPERTY LINE, BUT 'CAUSE I CAN'T, YES. LOOK AGAIN ON THE, UH, OVERVIEW KIND OF. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M GONNA ATTEMPT A [04:35:01] MOTION HERE. UM, MOVE FOR APPROVALS OF I ITEM ONE THROUGH THREE, UH, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. UH, THE APPLICANT HAS ALREADY SAID THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING FENESTRATION PATTERN. SO ITEM FOUR IS NO LONGER RELEVANT. AND FOR ITEM FIVE, UH, APPROVAL, UH, WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE, UH, SIDE ADDITION, UH, BE SHIFTED TO ALIGN WITH THE REAR OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. SECOND, A MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? JU UM, JUST ONE, ONE COMMENT. I'D LIKE TO ASK MY, UH, A FELLOW BOARD MEMBER IF, IF, IF WE MIGHT GIVE THEM THE, THE, UM, A ONE FOOT TOLERANCE FROM THE CORNER. 'CAUSE WHEN ADDING TO A STRAIGHT LINE ON A WOOD BUILDING IT, IF, IF, IF THEY SO CHOOSE TO BE 12 INCHES, IT'LL HELP 'EM ARTICULATE THAT CORNER BETTER. I'D ACCEPT THAT AS A FRIENDLY, UH, . THAT MIGHT EVEN BE FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL STANDPOINT. UH, BE CLEAR AS TO WHERE, UH, OLD AND NEW EXISTING AND, AND NEW STOP AND START. I'M ASSUMING FINAL DRAWINGS HAVE TO SUBMITTED TO STAFF. THAT IS CORRECT. UH, WE WOULD REVIEW, UH, UPDATED CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS THAT MATCH WHAT'S DISCUSSED IN THE, IN THE, THE MOTION. ADDITIONALLY ON THE WINDOWS, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S NO MISUNDERSTANDING AND, AND WHICH YOU'RE GONNA REPAIR. STAFF HAS TO APPROVE IT BEFORE OR REPLACE, RIGHT? NOT ALL OF THEM. UH, IF THEY ARE FUNCTIONING, WE WILL UTILIZE THEM, BUT ONES THAT ARE NOT FUNCTIONING WILL BE REPLACED. WE'RE WE'RE GOING APPLES WITH APPLES WE'LL PERFORM AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU CONFIRM GU STAFF WHEN YOU REPLACE. IF IT IS, YEAH, JUST MAKE SURE BEFORE YOU DO IT, YOU DOCUMENT WHICH ARE BEING TAKEN OUT. WHICH ONES ARE BEING SURE THING. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. MOVING [B-15 19-6972 Address/Description: 901 MASON ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-514 Historic District Name: Government Hill Applicant: Logan Fullmer /901 MASON LLC Request: Landscaping modifications City Council Dist.: 2] ON. ITEM B 15 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 514. ADDRESS, 9 0 1 MASON STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO PERFORM VARIOUS LANDSCAPING IMPROVEMENTS, INCLUDING THE INSTALLATION OF PLANTING BEDS, PORTIONS OF THE EL DORADO GRAVEL AND THE INSTALLATION OF VARIOUS GRASSES. THE EXISTING GRASS AND DIRT PLANTING STRIP IS PROPOSED TO BE REPLACED WITH EL DORADO. GRAVEL STAFF IS SUPPORTIVE OF THE PROPOSAL, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE PLANTING STRIP. WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT THE PLANTING STRIP BE 50% GRASSES, 50% ELDORADO GRAVEL IN LIEU OF FULL GRAVEL. INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE. HELLO, MY NAME IS LOGAN FULMER. I'M THE OWNER OF 9 0 1 MASON STREET. WOULD YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE THE MOST RECENT ONE THAT I SENT YOU? THE MAY I APPROACH AND HAND Y'ALL THESE? THIS IS AN UPDATED VERSION. THE ONE YOU GOT EARLIER MAY BE DIFFERENT. THANK YOU. OH, ALSO. ALL RIGHT, SO MY NAME'S LOGAN FULMER. I'M THE OWNER OF 9 0 1 MASON. I'M HERE TO SEEK APPROVAL FOR A, UH, LANDSCAPING PLAN HERE. UM, THIS BUILDING WAS BUILT IN 1884, AND IT'S BEEN THROUGH SEVERAL RENDITIONS OVER ITS LIFETIME. AND CURRENTLY IT'S, UM, 5,500 SQUARE FOOT, UM, OFFICE BUILDING ZONE OH TWO. UM, I BELIEVE IT'S BEEN IN THIS CURRENT CONFIGURATION SINCE, UM, 1998 AND I PURCHASED IT IN NOVEMBER AND I'VE DONE SOME UPDATES AND JUST SOME CLEANUP WORK TO IT. UM, THE LAST PART IS THE LANDSCAPING PLAN. I, SO THE PROPOSED PROJECT WOULDN'T HARM OR INTERFERE WITH ANY EXISTING TREES. UM, CURRENTLY GRASS COVERS THE LAWN AND EXISTS IN SPARSE PATCHES, UH, FROM THE BUILDING TO THE CURB. UH, SOME ROCK BEDS EXIST IN THE SIDE AND ROCK SIDE AND, UH, REAR OF THE HOUSE. AND I BELIEVE THEY'VE BEEN THERE SINCE THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, ABOUT 20 YEARS OR SO. UM, SO WOULD YOU MIND GOING BACK TO THE, SO THERE YOU GO. THIS IS JUST A GENERAL, UM, VIEW OF THE BUILDING. IT'S ABOUT 0.45 ACRES, I BELIEVE, ON A CORNER. UM, THE, TO THE SOUTH IT FACES MASON STREET TO THE WEST. IT FACES SPOFFORD. UM, THIS WOULD BE THE AFFECTED AREAS IN A LANDSCAPING PLAN. GENERALLY SPEAKING, I WOULD JUST, UM, PUT NEW PLANT, UH, SEED SOD, UPDATE THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM, AND THEN WE WOULD DO GRASS BEDS ALONG THE HARDSCAPE AREAS, THE WALKWAYS. UM, AND THEN THERE WOULD ALSO BE PART OF THE LANDSCAPE WORK WOULD GO FROM THE FENCE OUT TO THE CURB. [04:40:01] AND THE AFFECTED AREA WOULD ONLY BE THE FRONT, WHICH WOULD BE THE SOUTH ONE THIRD OF THE LOT. THE BALANCE OF IT WOULD NOT BE AFFECTED. THIS IS A SITE PLAN TO THE LEFT IS MASON STREET. AND TO THE, UH, TOP OF THIS DIAGRAM IS SPOFFORD. SO IF YOU CAN SEE THE FOOTPRINT THERE IN THE MIDDLE, UM, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THE PROPOSED BEDS THAT WOULD, UM, INCLUDE MONDO GRASS, UH, SOME MONKEY GRASS AND A FEW OTHER, SOME FERNS AND A ROCK BED UNDER THOSE. SO THOSE WOULD, UM, THOSE WOULD BE BORDERS AROUND THE EDGE OF THE HOUSE. AND THEN THE FLAT WORK INSIDE THE FENCE LINE. UH, THE BROWN AREAS THAT ARE BETWEEN THE FENCE LINE AND THE STREET WOULD BE, UM, LIKE A ROCK BED BETWEEN FOUR AND SIX INCH SIZE STOCK. UM, AND THEN WHERE IT SAYS GRASS AND YELLOW, THE GRASS JUST NEEDS TO BE REWORKED. UH, THESE ARE THE MATERIALS THAT I WOULD PROPOSE. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE ELIMINATING THE PROPOSAL FOR THE EL DORADO STONE AND JUST GOING WITH THE KLON BACK COBBLE. THAT'S RIGHT. AND I'LL, I'LL TELL YOU WHY. LET ME RUN THROUGH THIS AS QUICK AS I CAN. I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG NIGHT. SO THIS IS A PROPERTY THAT'S OVER IN A DIFFERENT HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IN SUMMARY, IT'S, UM, A PRETTY GOOD EXAMPLE. JUST SIMILAR BEDS WITH CLUMPS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF GRASS. UM, I WOULD HAVE ROCK IN THOSE BEDS INSTEAD OF MULCH. AND THIS IS ANOTHER VIEW OF THE PROPERTY, UM, YOU CAN SEE THE SAME BEDS THAT ARE NO DEEPER THAN THREE FOOT THE EDGE OF THE BASE OF THE BUILDING, AND THEN ALSO COME OUT TO THEIR FENCE. SO THAT'S MY FRIEND'S HOUSE. AND HE HAS, UM, IT'S NOT MONKEY GRASS ON THE FRONT, IT'S ONLY MONKEY GRASS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE ON THE STREET SIDE OF THE FENCE. IT'S LIKE A, AND I NEED HELP FROM A, A LANDSCAPER HERE ON THE NAME OF THAT. UM, NO, IT'S, YEAH, IT'S KIND OF LIKE AN EYE, IT'S LIKE A GROUND COVER. YEAH, I WOULDN'T WANT TO USE ANY OF THAT KIND OF STUFF. THE THINGS, WELL, HE HAS NO ROCKS AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE STAFF IS, IS DEVIATING. IT'S BECAUSE OF THE ROCK. WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO DO MULCH? WOULD YOU, LEMME GET THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK AND I BET I'LL ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT MY PREROGATIVE. UM, MY GOAL TO, MY PLAN TO AVOID AND PREVENT SOME ITEMS LIKE THIS IS WHEN USE REALLY SMALL ROCK. I JUST DROVE AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THIS EXISTS ALL OVER MY SAME NEIGHBORHOOD. IT ENDS UP IN THE STREET, IT GETS EVERYWHERE. AND I KNOW SOMETIMES THE SUGGESTION IS PUT A, A BORDER AND A BOUNDARY THERE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP LEFT, THAT'S THEIR BOUNDARY. IT SOMEHOW SPILLS OVER. IT JUST, IT HAPPENS. UM, AND I, THIS IS AN OFFICE BUILDING, SO WE COME THERE AND WORK AND GO HOME AND MY GOAL IS TO MAKE IT LOW IMPACT ON WATER LOW MANAGEMENT, BUT STILL CLEAN. UM, I FIND A LOT OF THE, THE GRASS BEDS AND WHATNOT CATCH TRASH 'CAUSE OF THE THOROUGHFARE. SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO BE LOW MAINTENANCE, EASY TO MAINTAIN AND CLEAN. UM, SO THIS IS THE FABRIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE PLANT STRIPS ARE, THERE'S CONSIDERABLE ROCK IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, YOU'VE GOT SOME, SOME OF 'EM ARE TRASH CAN STRIPS, DIRT, UM, SOME GRASS. UM, A LARGE PORTION OF MY SECTION OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS COMMERCIAL. SO A LOT OF 'EM ACTUALLY ARE JUST CONCRETE. AND THEN SOME OF 'EM HAVE A COMBINATION OF MULCH AND ROCK AND THEN SOME ARE GRASS. UM, MOST OF THE LANDOWNERS ON MY STREET AND THE ADJOINING STREETS, I JUST WALKED AROUND ASKING 'EM, HEY, DO YOU GUYS LIKE THIS? THEY SEEM TO LIKE IT. I SHOWED 'EM THE DIAGRAM AND THE EXAMPLES OVER THE LAST COUPLE DAYS. UM, AND ALONG WITH THE NEIGHBOR ASSOCIATION, UH, THEY SEEMED TO THINK IT WAS GOOD FOR THEM. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE OTHER LETTERS AND I THINK YOU GUYS MAY HAVE SOME COPIES OF THEM, MR. WE ALSO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. ROSE HILL COMM COMMISSIONERS. HOW ARE Y'ALL DOING TODAY? UH, MY NAME IS ROSE HILL, PRESIDENT GOVERNMENT HILL ALLIANCE, AND UM, WE ARE IN SUPPORT OF THIS PROJECT FOR ONE, THAT HOUSE BEFORE, UM, THIS APPLICANT TOOK OVER WAS IN TERRIBLE SHAPE. THIS IS ONE OF THE BEAUTIFULEST HOUSES, I THINK IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, DETERIORATED, UH, COMPLETELY NEGLECTED. UH, THIS MAN HAS COME IN AND HE HAS DONE A TREMENDOUS JOB IN KEEPING THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE HOUSE, THE WINDOWS, EVERYTHING INTACT. I MEAN, DOWN TO THE, TO THE, TO THE NITTY GRITTY HE'S DONE. UM, IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WHAT HE'S ASKING ISN'T SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. ON CARSON STREET, YOU HAVE MANY OF THE HOMES ALREADY THAT HAVE THE SAME KIND OF ROCK THAT HE'S PROPOSING, UM, ON THE, I BELIEVE IT MIGHT BE 9 0 1, UH, EAST CARSON THAT HAS THE SAME EXACT ROCK. SO YOU'VE GOT A, THIS PATTERN THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE ROCK EXISTS IN MANY OF OUR HOMES IN, IN, IN GOVERNMENT HILL. AND SO WHAT HE'S ASKING THERE, I DON'T THINK IT, UH, IT'S GOING TO, UM, MAKE, NOT MAKE IT. I THINK IT'S GONNA ENHANCE IT MORE. UH, WE HAVE A STREET, NOT TWO BLOCKS FROM VALERO AND PEOPLE HAVE A VERY BAD HAND, [04:45:01] UH, HABIT OF THROWING TRASH ALL OVER THE PLACE. AND UH, YOU COME DOWN SOMETIMES MASON, AND IT'S REALLY FRUSTRATING TO SEE THAT. BUT, UH, THE NEIGHBORS IN THAT AREA ARE LOOKING TO DO LOT, ALL KINDS OF ARCHITECTURAL THINGS WITH THEIR NEIGHBOR, WITH THEIR, UH, LANDSCAPING. AND, UH, EVERYBODY ON THAT BLOCK SEEMS TO BE IN APPRECIATIVE OF WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE'RE SUPPORTING THAT. I, I THINK THAT IF IT WAS SOMETHING, UH, OUT OF THE EXTRAORDINARY, WE WOULDN'T SUPPORT IT. BUT WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO, HE'S JUST TRYING TO ENHANCE WHAT WASN'T THERE, UH, AND WHAT IS GOING TO MORE OR LESS BEAUTIFY THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAN FROM WHAT IT WAS. SO I ASK THAT YOU, UH, TAKE CONSIDERATION, UM, AND LETTING HIM DO THIS PROJECT BECAUSE IT'S GONNA ONLY ENHANCE FROM WHAT HE HAS DONE IN THAT HOUSE. IT'S UNREMARKABLE WHAT HE'S DONE AND THE MONEY HE'S PUT INTO IT, I'M SURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. UM, YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE AREA, WHAT I CALL THE PARKWAY BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE STREET, UH, YOU'RE RECOMMENDING THAT THAT REMAIN 50% GRASS, CORRECT? YEAH. SO OUR GUIDELINES RECOMMEND THAT 50% OF PORTIONS THAT ARE AFFECTED BE GRASS. SO THAT, THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST. THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE THAT PARKWAY, THE PLANTING STRIP TO BE FULLY ROCKS. AND WE ARE RECOMMENDING PER THE GUIDELINES THAT AT LEAST 50% BE SOME SORT OF LANDSCAPING. UM, IF THE COMMISSION APPROVED, UH, USE OF ROCK IN THAT AREA WITH PLANTINGS IN THE ROCK, SAY 50% OF THE AREA COVERED WITH PLANTINGS, WOULD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE? YES. OKAY. UM, I'M, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT THE APPLICANT IS SHOWING. UM, I'VE DONE SEVERAL HISTORIC HOMES AND TURN IN THE 19TH CENTURY, A LOT OF THE HISTORIC HOMES ACTUALLY DID NOT HAVE WHAT WE REFER TO NOW AS FOUNDATION PLANTINGS, SHRUBS, RIGHT NEXT TO THE HOUSE. THEY HAD, UH, BEDS OF SMALL GRAVEL. SO THIS REALLY KIND OF FITS IN WITH THAT, UH, HISTORIC, UH, APPROACH. SO I THINK WHAT THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING IS APPROPRIATE. YOU'RE YOU'RE SAYING A HUNDRED PERCENT GRAVEL? ALL OF IT? NO, 50 50. NO. UH, THE BEDS NEXT TO THE HOUSE, I'M SAYING HIS HISTORY INDICATES ARE OFTEN ALL GRAVEL. SO WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING, WE'RE RECOMMENDING OF THE ENTIRE PLAN, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THIS PORTION BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE SIDEWALK, THIS IS THE ONLY PORTION WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT IT BE 50 50. SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING, LIKE COULD IT BE A MIX AND LIKE YOU PUT UP ALONG THE FENCE, YOU PUT LIKE MONKEY GRASS OR THAT LIKE, IT'S LIKE A VERY LOW VY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ROCKS. IT'S LOW MAINTENANCE. RIGHT. I, I SUGGESTED THAT WHEN, WHILE WE WERE TALKING WITH STAFF AS MAYBE A MIDWAY POINT AND I REALIZE IT'S NOT REALLY WHAT I WANT TO DO. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE GOAL IS TO CUT DOWN ON THE TRASH COLLECTION, THE MAINTENANCE AND MY SPRINKLERS DON'T REACH ALL THE WAY OUT THERE. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOME SPRINKLER EXTENSION AND STUFF TO GET WATER OUT THERE. HOW NEED SOME SPRINKLERS ON THAT? WELL, TEXAS IS 110 DEGREES FOR MONTHS AT A TIME NOW. AND THE REST OF MY STUFF IS DYING OUT THERE. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE PLANT STRIP OUT FRONT OF THIS BUILDING HERE, IT'S BASICALLY DEAD. AND I REALIZE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WOULD LIKE, LET'S JUST LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE THAT CORNER, HOW YOU TURN IT, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS I SEE THAT PART. WHAT ABOUT THE PART UP AGAINST THE FENCE YOU GOT? THAT WOULD ALSO BE ABRUPTLY, LIKE JUST WHERE DOES THE GRAVEL END? 'CAUSE IT'S GRASS ALL AROUND THE EXACTLY AT THE FENCE. SO FROM THE FENCE TO THE CURB ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SIDEWALK, MY PROPOSAL WOULD INCLUDE ROCK AND IT WOULD STOP AT THE FENCE. SO, BUT BACK DOWN THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT CORNER, RIGHT THAT CORNER TO THE LEFT. SO I'M, THE GRASS CONTINUES SO ON IN THAT SIDE RIGHT NOW, THAT'S THE WESTERN BOUNDARY OF THE PROPERTY. I'M NOT PROPOSING TO DO ANY WORK THERE BECAUSE THERE'S NO CONTIGUOUS SIDEWALK. AND I, I BELIEVE I WAS TOLD BY SOME SURVEYORS THAT THE CITY'S PREPARING TO REDO THAT COMPLETE STREET AND I ASSUME CURBS AND SOME OTHER THINGS ARE IN ORDER AND I DON'T WANT TO SPEND ANY MONEY OUT THERE UNTIL THE CITY GETS THAT DONE. 'CAUSE IT'S GONNA GET TORN UP. SO I INTENDED TO ONLY DO, DO THE SOUTHERN ONE THIRD OF THE PROPERTY AND LEAVE THAT STRIP OUT UNTIL THE CITY DOES THEIR [04:50:01] DEAL. I'M, I'M OPEN TO DOING IT NOW, BUT YOU KNOW, WITH THE CONDITION OF THE SIDEWALK IN THE STREET, I THINK IT'D BE BAD MONEY SPENT. CAN I, CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION OF STAFF? UM, IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, RECENTLY WE MAY HAVE HAVE BEEN AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL ON A SIMILAR PROJECT, JUST A FEW HOUSES. THEY LOOKED LIKE WEST ON THE MAP. 8 0 7, 8 0 7. THAT MAY HAD TO BE THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND CORNER ONE THERE. IT'S THE ONE IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT HAND CORNER AND IT'S THE ONE THAT SHOWS 50% TRAVEL. UM, SO, UH, I THINK COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, UH, LFO'S COMMENT WAS, UM, WOULD EROTIC LANDSCAPING THAT'S BEDED IN THE STONE COUNT TOWARD, UH, UH, VEGETATION SURFACE AREA AND STAFF'S RESPONSE WAS, YES. SO I, I JUST WANNA BE AS CLEAR AS WE CAN. IT SOUNDS LIKE IF WE ARE ASKING THAT YOU PROVIDE EROTIC LANDSCAPING IN THE GRAVEL BED BY THE SIDEWALK, YOU WOULD'VE TO EXTEND ALL YOUR IRRIGATION SYSTEMS OUT THERE. SO YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN PURSUING THAT? I WOULD LIKE TO NOT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS, THE BUSINESS ISN'T MY HOME. I, I GO THERE AND WORK AND GO HOME AND I WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE TO GO OUT THERE AND WATER IT OR ADD SPRINKLERS. YOU KNOW, I, MY GOAL IS TO MAKE IT AS LOW MAINTENANCE AS I CAN. I REALIZE INSIDE THE PROPERTY WILL BE CONSIDERABLY MORE MAINTENANCE WITH ALL THE ADDITIONAL GREEN GREENERY THAT I'M GONNA ADD. UM, BUT I WOULD HOPE TO MAKE THAT SECTION CLEANER. THE OTHER ISSUE IS WE HAVE A LOT OF PARKING ON THIS STREET BECAUSE IT'S A COMMERCIAL OPERATION AND FOLKS ARE CONSTANTLY WALKING FROM THERE INTO THE GATE ACROSS THE SIDEWALK. AND PROBABLY FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EVERY OTHER COMMERCIAL BUILDING IN THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD CONCRETES FROM THE SIDEWALK ALL THE WAY TO THE STREET. UH, THAT WOULD BE THE SAME THOUGHT THAT I WOULD HAVE OR PROBABLY NEED. I WOULD BE OPEN TO ACCEPT THE ROCKS, UM, ON EVERYTHING FROM THE STREET TO THE SIDEWALK AND THEN MAYBE COME UP WITH SOMETHING LOW MAINTENANCE JUST UP AGAINST THE FENCE. SOMETHING THAT WOULDN'T REQUIRE IRRIGATION. THE IRRIGATION IS ONE PART OF IT THAT'S SURE. UM, THE OTHER PART IS, BUT YOU SEE, YOU CAN SEE TRASH IN THE PICTURE. TRASH COLLECTS THERE. AND ONE THING WE FIND WHEN WE DO THE MAINTENANCE IS WHEN GUYS COME WITH LEAF BLOWERS, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT'S GREEN OR PLANTS OR UM, MULCH, YOU HIT 'EM WITH A HIGH POWER LEAF BLOWER AND IT, IT GOES EVERYWHERE. IT TURNS INTO A MAINTENANCE NIGHTMARE WHERE THEY'RE GOING AND PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER AGAIN. AND WHEN IT'S JUST ROCKS WITH NOTHING GREEN IN THAT ONE SECTION, THEY HIT IT WITH LEAF BLOWERS AND THE LEAFS GO OUT. I MEAN, IT'S A VERY LOW MAINTENANCE, EASY, UH, EASY TO CONTEND WITH DEAL. AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S GONNA MAKE, I BELIEVE IT WILL ALLOW THE PROPERTY TO LOOK MUCH BETTER FOR LONGER, MUCH MORE CONSISTENTLY. AND THAT'S MY HOPE. MY HOPE IS TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A VERY ATTRACTIVE PROPERTY. UM, I HAVE A PROPOSAL FOR MY COMMISSIONERS, UM, WHAT IF UP INTO THE FENCE PORTION, UH, ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SIDEWALK, WE AGREE TO AN 80 20 LANDSCAPE TO STONE RATIO THAT WAY CAN AT LEAST, UM, OR STONE TO LANDSCAPE RATIO. I APOLOGIZE THAT WAY. IT AT LEAST DEALS WITH SOME OF THAT CONCERN. AND THEN THE REST OF THE AREA BEHIND THE FENCE, WE MAINTAIN THE 50 50 LANDSCAPE TO STONE, UH, RATIO. THAT WAY IT DEALS WITH YOUR IRRIGATION ISSUE, BUT IT ALSO ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF, UM, ZURICH PLANT PLANTING IN THAT FRONT AREA. THAT WAY IT'S LOW MAINTENANCE. THAT WAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WATERING IT, BUT YOU HAVE ENOUGH SPACE BETWEEN THOSE PLANTINGS TO WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE LEAF BLOWERS. UM, AND SO I THINK IF YOU JUST LOWER THE THRESHOLD ON THE, THE RATIO THERE, IT WOULD HELP, BUT IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW YOU TO KEEP A RELATIVELY, UH, GOOD PROPORTION THERE. LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION. THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THIS IS PROBABLY 15 EXAMPLES IN THE 150 HOUSE SUBDIVISION, OR I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE MORE, I DON'T KNOW. THERE ARE TONS OF THEM OUT THERE. I I JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SUCH A FAR STRETCH YET. IT'S A VERY, VERY COMMON WITH THE COMMERCIAL APPLICATION AND THE RESIDENTIAL. I THINK THOUGH, IF YOU, YOU JUST JUMP ON GOOGLE MAPS AND, AND LOOK UP AND DOWN YOUR STREET THERE, ALL THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THAT EIGHT, EIGHT, OH UH, SEVEN MASON, WHICH I HAPPEN TO KNOW THE OWNER OF THAT ONE. THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALL PRETTY MUCH JUST GRASS. AND SO THIS WOULD BE A PRETTY DRAMATIC INSERTION OF, OF A LOT OF HARDSCAPE, YOU KNOW, INTO, INTO THAT AREA. TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS ABOUT MAINTENANCE. TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NOT A RESIDENCE AND YOU'RE, YOU, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE THERE IN THE EVENINGS TO, YOU KNOW, PICK UP THE TRASH AND DO THE WATER AND THAT KIND OF THING. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY YOU GOT MAINTENANCE CREWS. YOU TRAIN THEM NOT TO BLOW IT OUT WITH THE, UH, [04:55:01] WITH THE UH, UM, WITH THE POWER BLOWERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I, I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE TO GO COMPLETELY WITH STONE WOULD BE JUST TOO, TOO MUCH OF A, OF A, A STARK CONTRAST WITH WHAT YOUR NEIGHBORS HAVE. SO I, I THINK, UM, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER, UH, BOWMAN, IT WAS ON THE TRAIL. SO, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE THERE. I, I DON'T THINK STAFF'S, UH, YOU KNOW, REQUEST TO THE 50 50 PLANTING IS, IS, UH, TOO OUT OF, OUT OF CHARACTER EITHER. I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A GOOD COMPROMISE. IT GIVES YOU SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, A LITTLE BIT LOWER MAIN MAINTENANCE THAN MULCH OR, UH, UH, UH, DECOMPOSED GRANITE THAT COULD WASH OUT AND THAT KIND OF THING. UH, YOU CAN STILL GO WITH THE COBBLES AND HAVE SOME HARDY, UH, ZEROSCAPE PLANTING IN THERE AND UM, AND, AND STILL HAVE THAT BE GREEN AND SOFT, A LITTLE BIT LIKE WHAT YOUR NEIGHBORS HAVE. SO I, YOU KNOW, I MOVE FOR, UH, APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. WELL LET ME, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING HERE FOR A MINUTE. WE TALK ABOUT 20% OF, IS IT THE OTHER GREEN PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN MY PROPOSAL OR IS IT I, 'CAUSE I HAVEN'T REVIEWED THE OTHER GUIDELINES ARE ACCEPTABLE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE THAT MEANS. I DON'T WANNA PUT CACTUS OUT THERE 'CAUSE IT DEFINITELY WOULDN'T JIVE. HOW ABOUT YOU GOT SOME SIDEWALKS OVER HERE? IF WE LINE THE SIDEWALKS FROM THE, NOT THE SIDEWALKS THAT ARE HEADING UP AND DOWN HERE, BUT MAYBE FROM MY PROPERTY OUT TO THE STREET, IF WE MAYBE PUT, PUT THEM ALONG THERE AND THEN THE OTHER SIDEWALK ALONG THERE THAT GIVES IT SOME SORT OF A DEFINITION. I THINK THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND, AND SAWS, THEY, THEY MAINTAIN A PLANNING LIST OF WHAT OF PLANTS THEY CONSIDER TO BE, UH, ZEROSCAPING AND THE ONES THAT THEY ACTUALLY GIVE REBATES ON. IF YOU, IF YOU MAKE USE OF THAT, YOU CAN CAN PROBABLY TAP INTO THAT ONLINE TO, TO SEE WHAT KIND OF, WHAT SPECIFIC PLANT MATERIAL, UH, WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. DO YOU THINK WE COULD JUST LINE 'EM ON THE SIDEWALKS AND GO FROM MY BUILDING OUT TO THE, OUT TO THE ROAD AT THE END OF THE DAY? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S 15% OR 10 OR WHAT IT IS, BUT IT WOULD GIVE IT SOME KIND OF DEFINED EDGE. SO WHEN THE EYE LOOKS AT IT, IT LOOKS, IT LOOKS PRETTY, UH, DEFINED AND CLEAN. OTHERWISE I DON'T, I MEAN WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO FIND A RATIO OF LIKE 20%, SO IT'S GONNA BE EIGHT INCHES FROM THE CURB. SO RIGHT NOW IT'S 50 50 AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD GOT A SECOND, BUT I'LL GIVE, I CAN'T FIND A SINGLE SECOND ON THAT. I CAN'T FIND A SINGLE PROPERTY IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK THERE'S ONE THAT ACTUALLY IS 50 50, SO I REALIZE THAT MIGHT BE A STIPULATION, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S REALLY APPLICATION AT ALL. STAFF WOULD WORK WITH YOU ON THE ACTUAL PLACEMENT. WE'RE NOT GONNA REQUIRE THAT IT BE EVENLY DISTRIBUTED PERFECTLY. WE'RE JUST REQUIRING THAT PLANS BE ADDED. HAVE, WOULD, WOULD, WOULD, WOULD UM, YOU TO HAVE A MOTION FELLOW COMMISSION FIRST? WE HAVE A MOTION. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. NOW DISCUSSION WOULD, WOULD, WOULD, UH, COULD MAYBE WE ENTERTAIN THE IDEA OF A HUNDRED PERCENT ON THE, THE AREA THAT'S OUTSIDE THE SIDEWALK AND THEN BETWEEN THE FENCE AND THE SIDEWALK, THE 50 50 SO THAT, SO THAT IF, IF HE DOES A SOLID ROCK AND THEN GOING UP TO THE FENCE, THERE'S A TRANSITION OF THAT ROCK INTO SAY SALVIA OR WHATEVER, MONKEY GRASS OR WHATEVER, THEN, THEN HE'S SOLID ON THE AREA. THAT'S BY THE STREET WHERE PEOPLE GET OUTTA THE CAR, WALK ACROSS THE GRASS, KILL THE GRASS, ALL THAT STUFF, BUT THEY DON'T WALK THROUGH THE FENCE. SO HE'S ENABLED TO TO TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. YEAH. THE, THE MOTION THAT'S BEEN MADE AND SECOND AND ALLOWS FOR THAT. LIKE THERE'S, THERE'S FLEXIBILITY. SO, SO THEN, SO THEN A HUNDRED PERCENT IS CONSIDERED THE PIECE OUTSIDE THE FENCE AND THE 50 50 COULD BE THE PIECE OUTSIDE THE SIDEWALK AND 50% ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SIDEWALK. SO I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE A HUNDRED PERCENT STONE OUTSIDE THIS, UH, YOU KNOW, IN THAT, THAT PARKWAY AREA. UM, I THINK THAT NEEDS TO HAVE SOME PLANTING TO BE CONSISTENT WHEN YOU LOOK UP AND DOWN THE STREET. WE CAN PLANT THEM, BUT IT'LL PROBABLY BE DEAD IN MONTH OR TWO. I, I THINK HE CAN WORK WITH STAFF IN THE SPECIFICS OF THE DISTRIBUTION WHERE IT'S MAYBE 75 TOWARDS THE FENCE AND 25 OUT TOWARDS THE STREET. UH, MR. CHAIRMAN. YEAH, AND I THINK WE COULD GET A VOTE. VOTE. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. OH, CAN YOU CLARIFY? SORRY TO INTERRUPT GUYS. I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING AT A HUGE BIG PROJECT AND WE'RE DRILLED DOWN TO LIKE A PLACE FOR A FEW PLANTS. GUYS, I'M REALLY A LITTLE FRUSTRATED AT THE MOMENT, BUT WOULD YOU CLARIFY THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT? SO WE'RE SAYING 20%, 80 20 BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE FENCE AND FROM THE SIDEWALK TO THE STREET IS ROCK. IS THAT RIGHT? MY MOTION WAS IN SUPPORT OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, WHICH SAYS 50% PLANTING AND 50% GRAVEL. HOW THAT GETS DISTRIBUTED IS YOU CAN WORK WITH STAFF ON THE, ON THE SPECIFICS OF THAT 50% OF THE AREA OUTSIDE THE FENCE, WHETHER IT'S IN THE PARKWAY OR BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE FENCE. THAT'S WHERE YOU'D WORK WITH STAFF TO GET YOUR 50% OUTSIDE THE FENCE. PICK A VOTE PLEASE. NOW LET'S DO A VOTE. CITIZENS TO BE HEARD HAS BEEN CLOSED. YEAH, EXCUSE ME. ROSE. POINT OF ORDER CHAIR. YES. CAN YOU CALL FOR A VOTE? I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR A VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. [05:00:01] AYE. AYE. I LOOK AT THE, UH, THE SUPPORT OF THE MAJOR CONSTITUENTS IN THIS DISTRICT AT ALL. EVERY SINGLE, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THE BLOCK AND ALL THE LARGE LANDOWNERS IN THE THREE BLOCK RADIUS WE DID IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. ITEM [B-16 19-6968 Address/Description: 2011 W MAGNOLIA AVE HDRC Case No.: 2019-517 Historic District Name: Monticello Park Applicant: Dorothy Choice/Horizon View Realty Investments LLC Request: Fenestration changes, Historic Tax Certification City Council Dist.: 7] NUMBER B 16 H T R C CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 5 23 ADDRESS, 2011 WEST MAGNOLIA AVENUE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ONE, REMOVE TWO EXISTING ONE OVER ONE WOOD WINDOWS ON THE REAR FACADE, FACADE AND ENCLOSED WITH SIDING. TWO, REMOVE ONE EXISTING ONE OVER ONE WOOD WINDOW AND A NON-ORIGINAL DOOR ON THE REAR FACADE AND INSTALL FRENCH DOORS. AND THREE, RECEIVE HISTORIC TAX CERTIFICATION. STAFF IS NOT RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE REMOVAL OF THE ONE OVER ONE WOOD WINDOWS. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF HISTORIC TAX CERTIFICATION WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT COMPLIES WITH ALL ADMINISTRATIVE AND H D R C APPROVALS, INCLUDING THE FINAL OUTCOMES OF ITEMS ONE AND TWO. GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME'S DANE BOKENKAMP. DOROTHY AND I OWN THE PROPERTY AT 2011 WEST MAGNOLIA. UM, DOROTHY AND I HAVE BEEN BUYING AND RENOVATING AND REFURBISHING HOUSING IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. THIS IS OUR FIRST HISTORIC, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR, UH, OUR LACK OF ADDITIONAL PRESENTATIONS. AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE PICTURE THAT'S ON THE, UM, ON THE SCREEN NOW. THIS IS THE BACK CORNER OF THE HOUSE. MY APOLOGY GOES TO THE FACT THAT WE JUST HAD A SURVEY DONE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH SHOWS ALL THIS. I TALKED TO STAFF AND I'M GONNA LEAVE THEM WITH WITH THIS COPY SINCE WE DIDN'T MAKE ANY FOR THEM. BUT, UH, SIGNIFICANT IN IT IS THAT THERE IS A WALKWAY FROM THE CARPORT TO THE, THIS LITTLE TINY BACK CORNER OF THE HOUSE THAT IS THE ONLY EGRESS INTO THE HOUSE FROM THE REAR THROUGH THAT, UH, THAT ONE DOOR. AND TO US IT WAS A SAFETY ISSUE. PICTURE. I'M GOING TO LEAVE WITH STAFF. THIS ONE DOOR, PARDON ME. THIS ONE DOOR OPENS UP INTO A LITTLE TINY PERFECT A DOOR OPENS UP INTO A LITTLE TINY LAUNDRY ROOM. YOU CAN SEE WASHER AND DRYER, EVEN PROTRUDE INTO THE PATHWAY. ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE PICTURE, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE HOT WATER HEATER IS. I'M ENVISIONING DOROTHY CARRYING A 32 COUNT OF NIAGARA WATER INTO THE HOUSE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE THAT, GET THROUGH IT. OUR SOLUTION WAS TO, IF YOU CAN GO BACK, WAS TO CANCEL THAT DOOR. AND THE AREA WHERE THAT WINDOW WAS IS A SMALL BREAKFAST NOOK. AND THERE IS ROOM TO PUT, NOT AN UNATTRACTIVE DOOR AS IS CURRENTLY INSTALLED, BUT AN ATTRACTIVE WOOD FRAMED FRENCH DOOR LEADING OUT TO A PROPOSED DECK THAT WE'RE GOING TO INSTALL THERE ALSO, UNLESS IT WAS JUST A SAFETY ISSUE. THIS IS MY CLUMSY ATTEMPT AT PORTRAYING THE, UH, PROSPECTIVE DRAWING. GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE. ALSO, ONCE THE DECK IS INSTALLED, THOSE TWO WINDOWS TO THE LEFT HAND SIDE, ARE THEY OPEN UP INTO THE MASTER BATH. SIR, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE DECK. IS THE DECK PART OF THE REQUEST ITEM OR IS THAT ANOTHER ISSUE? THE DECK IS ELIGIBLE FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. I'D LIKE TO COMMEND YOU ON YOUR EXHIBITS. I CAN UNDERSTAND FROM OURSELVES. WHAT TYPE OF WINDOWS ARE THE WINDOWS THAT ARE BEING CANCELED? I'M SORRY? WHAT TYPE OF WINDOWS ARE THE WINDOWS THAT YOU'RE PLANNING ON? THE ONES THAT GO TO THE, THE BATH RIGHT THERE, THEY'RE WOOD FRAME. THE WOOD WINDOWS. BUT YOU'RE KEEPING IT AS A BATHROOM? YES. THAT THAT ROOM IS BEING, UH, GONNA BE THE MASTER BATH. AND WE'RE KEEPING IT LIKE THAT. IT'S KIND OF AWKWARD. AS YOU CAN SEE, THOSE TWO WINDOWS ARE PUSHED TO THE OFF TO THE, THE RIGHT. UH, WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A, UH, CONFIGURATION OF VANITIES THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE HIS [05:05:01] OR HER SIZE. AND UH, IT, IT JUST WON'T FIT LIKE IT IS. AND AS YOU CAN SEE WITH THE NATURAL LIGHTING COMING IN, IT REALLY MAKES AN ATTRACTIVE ROOM. AND IT WOULD BE DESIRABLE. ONE OF THE REQUESTS THAT STAFF SENT, OR NOT A REQUEST, BUT ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO SHEET ROCK OVER ALL THAT AND LEAVE THE OUTSIDE THAT COULD BE DONE, BUT THEN, THEN YOU LOSE THE LIGHTING. YEAH. SO WHAT'S YOU'RE PROPOSING RIGHT NOW THOUGH, IS JUST THE, THE CLEAR STORY. A ONE FOOT BY SIX FOOT TRANSOM STYLE WINDOW UP ABOVE THE, UM, THERE WAS THE MAIN CONCERN. PRIVACY IN THOSE WINDOWS. YES. YES. BUILDING THAT DECK UP THERE. ALL OF A SUDDEN PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE FROM GROUND LEVEL WHERE THE WINDOWS ARE UP TO WHERE THEY'RE LOOKING RIGHT INTO THE MASTER BATCH. SO THERE, THERE ARE WAYS TO, TO BRING IN LIGHT AND STILL HAVE PRIVACY WITH THE FILMS AND EVERYTHING. AND THAT WAY YOU CAN MAINTAIN THOSE WINDOWS. ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT ON, UH, THIS COMMISSION IS THE REVERSIBILITY OF, OF A PROJECT. SO WHENEVER YOU, YOU KNOW, IN YOUR RENDERING, YOU, YOU, YOU'RE VERY GOOD ABOUT CAPTURING YOUR INTENTIONS THERE, WHICH IS VERY GOOD. UH, ONE OF THE, THE THINGS THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY SHOWN THERE IS THAT THAT SIDING, IF IT'S GOING TO BE FULLY REPLACED, THEN YOU, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO KIND OF DO THIS. BUT WHENEVER YOU FILL IN THOSE WINDOWS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO REPLACE SIDING AND IT'S GONNA HAVE A LINE WHERE THAT WINDOW WAS, OR YOU'RE GONNA FEATHER THAT SIDING IN AND THEN, WHICH, WHICH WAS OUR INTENT. AND THEN WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE ORIGINAL SIDING AND REPLACE IT WITH NEW. SO OUR, OUR GOAL IS TO ALWAYS TRY TO MAINTAIN THE ORIGINAL BONES AND STRUCTURE OF THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS. AND SO THAT'S WHY STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DOING SOMETHING ON THE INTERIOR WITH A WALL. THAT WAY YOU MAINTAIN THE STRUCTURE AND THE BONES OF THAT, THAT SYSTEM. SO I KNOW THAT IN THE PAST WE'VE SEEN QUITE A FEW OF THESE SITUATIONS, ESPECIALLY AT RESTROOMS. 'CAUSE THIS IS WHERE THIS ISSUE COMES UP ALL THE TIME. PRIVACY IN THE RESTROOMS. AND THE MOST COMMON SOLUTION IS, YOU KNOW, AN OPAQUE FILM THAT'S 80% THAT STILL LETS LIGHT IN, BUT, UM, GIVES YOU VISUAL PRIVACY OR, UM, SHEET ROCKING OVER A PERCENTAGE OF THAT WINDOW TO CREATE A CLEAR STORY. UM, I I DO KNOW THAT WE HAVE HISTORICALLY NOT APPROVED, UH, APPROVED, UH, SITUATIONS LIKE THIS. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S, THAT IS PART OF IT. THE OTHER PART IS THE WINDOWS, AS I SHOWED IN THAT PICTURE, ARE COCKED TO THE SIDE AND CONFIGURING ANY SORT OF AESTHETICALLY PLEASING BATHROOM FOR THE CONSUMER IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT. YEAH, IT'S PUSH. YOU CAN SEE IN THE BOTTOM LEFT IS WHERE THE TOILET IS. WE'RE GOING TO REDO THAT AND RUN VANITIES ALONG THE WHOLE SIDE OF IT. WE HAVE, WE'RE GOING TO PUT A PLAN IS FOR THREE 30 INCH VANITIES WITH A VESSEL SINK AT EITHER SIDE. SO IT'S A, WELL, WHAT CAN'T I AGREE WITH MY COMMISSIONER. IT'S KIND OF A DIFFICULT SITUATION, BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WITH THESE HISTORIC HOMES. AND IT'S REALLY, I THINK THESE WINDOWS ARE GIVING AN AMAZING LIGHT TO THIS BATHROOM. THIS BATHROOM LOOKS LIKE IT'S WELL KEPT ACTUALLY. BUT, UM, I THINK THERE'S SOME SOLUTIONS YOU'LL FIND. I, I AGREE THAT IT'LL BE HARD FOR ME TO PROVE THAT THE, THE TRANSOM WINDOW, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE USUALLY APPROVE. I THINK YOU CAN COME UP WITH A SOLUTION, BUT THEY'RE REALLY CONSIDER HISTORIC. YOU FIND 'EM INSIDE HOUSES OR NORMALLY WE WOULDN'T EVEN APPROVE THE EXTERIOR DOOR LIKE CANCELING A DOOR AND REPLACING WITH, UH, FRENCH DOORS. BUT I'D BE WILLING TO DO THAT. AND EXCEPT THE RELOCATION AND THE FRENCH DOORS. UM, BUT KEEPING THE WINDOWS. JUST ONE LAST, IS IT VINYL SIDING? YES, IT'S VINYL SING ON TOP OF THE WOOD SIDING. MM-HMM. ORIGINAL. IS IT UNDERNEATH? 'CAUSE I SEE LIKE A LITTLE PIECE TO THE RIGHT OF THE LAUNDRY DOOR THAT'S KIND OF LIKE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S CUT OFF VINYL SIDING AND THERE'S PLACES AROUND IT THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET MORE VINYL SIDING AND PATCH IT. I, I, I CONCUR WITH THAT AS WELL. THAT I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE WINDOWS, IT'S IMPORTANT NOT ONLY FOR THE REVERSIBILITY BUT ALSO THE PROPORTIONS. THESE LONG, UH, SKINNY WINDOWS LIKE THAT ARE, ARE VERY OUT OF CHARACTER WITH THE, THE HOUSE. A PAIR OF FRENCH DOORS LIKE THAT I DON'T FIND, UH, AS, AS OFFENSIVE AND OUT OF CHARACTER. AND I WOULD BE ACCEPTING OF THAT IF, IF YOU ALL WOULD, UH, ENTERTAIN MAYBE FINDING A DIFFERENT SOLUTION FOR THE WINDOWS IN THE, IN THE BATHROOM. UH, IF THAT'S THE DECISION, THAT'S THE DECISION, I'D LIKE TO JUST OFFER TWO MORE PICTURES SHOWING FROM THE BACK OF THE HOUSE ON ONE TO THAT CORNER. [05:10:03] THAT'S FROM THE NEIGHBOR'S CARPORT. THAT IS ALL YOU CAN SEE OF THE AREA THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO CHANGE. THAT IS THE BACK OF THE HOUSE UNDERNEATH OUR CARPORT. YOU CAN SEE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF IT. AND SO AGREEING THAT IT VIEWED IN WHOLE WITH THE OTHER WINDOWS, IT MIGHT BE SOMEWHAT OUT OF CHARACTER, BUT THIS IS AN ISOLATED LITTLE NICHE IN THE FOOTPRINT OF THE HOUSE THAT IS NOT SEEN BY ANYONE ELSE. ONE OF MY WORRIES. AND IT'S, AND IT'S TRUE. I MEAN, VISIBILITY IS SOMETHING THAT WE SOMETIMES CONSIDER, BUT YOU DO SAY IT'S THE ONLY ACCESS OTHER THAN THE FRONT DOOR. SO IT IS KIND OF, UM, I MEAN, IT IS GONNA BE YOUR SECONDARY ENTRANCE TO THE HOME. SO THAT'S WHY I'M, I'M LEANING, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME PROVING THAT WINDOW. I MEAN, IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, I JUST, THE REASON'S NOT THERE YET. UM, I'M FOR MYSELF, UM, I LIKE TO HAVE A MIRROR AND THE WAY THESE ARE SET UP, YOU'RE ONLY GONNA HAVE THEM, BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE AMAZING WINDOW LIGHT TO LOOK AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR SAYING, NO, HE'S, WELL NO, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT HE'S SAYING WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA SHOOT HUSBAND AND WIFE OR TWO PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN PLATE LIGHT ON TOP. SO YOU HAVE TO BE A NATURAL WIFE. I, I HAVE A, I HAVE A QUICK THOUGHT HERE. IF WE COULD JUST PULL UP THE IMAGE OF THE INTERIOR OF THE, UH, BATHROOM AND THEN I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION. UM, ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE MOVING, MOVING EXTERIOR FENESTRATION, WHETHER IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE STREET OR NOT IS, IS ALWAYS A BIG CHALLENGE. WHEN THE MATERIAL IS HISTORIC, WE TYPICALLY DON'T SUPPORT IT. I FIND IT DIFFICULT TO STOMACH THE, THE DOOR REVISION, BUT I'M GOING TO SUPPORT THAT THE WINDOWS I'M GONNA, UH, SUPPORT, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND LEAVING THEM IN PLACE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE IMAGE THERE, YOU, YOU SEE THE MEETING RAIL IN THE MIDDLE, MIDDLE OF THE WINDOW, THE HORIZONTAL LINE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WINDOW AND TOSS THE TOP SORT OF A SHADOW THROUGH THE CURTAINS. SO ONE POSSIBLE SUGGESTION IS THAT THE BOTTOM OF THE WINDOW BE COVERED OVER AND REPLACED WITH MIRROR, MAYBE ACROSS THE TOP WITH THE SINKS IN FRONT OF IT. SO THAT'S A SUGGESTION OF HOW ONE OF THOSE WINDOWS CAN BE MODIFIED, UH, WITHOUT NECESSARILY DRYWALLING OVER THE ENTIRE WINDOW WHERE THE LOWER SASH OF THE WINDOW IS COVERED AND INCORPORATED. UH, IN ANY CASE, STAFF MIGHT HAVE OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS TO HELP YOU DEAL WITH THAT. SO, UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE DOOR AND DENIAL OF THE WINDOW AND APPROVAL OF THE TAX CERTIFICATE. SECOND, THE MOTION IS SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. YOUR DRAWINGS WERE VERY INFORMATIVE. THANK YOU. WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. ITEM NUMBER B 17 H T R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 5 24 ADDRESS 1818 SAN PEDRO HAS BEEN POSTPONED TO THE NEXT HEARING. ITEM NUMBER B 18 [B-18 19-7079 Address/Description: 223 E CAROLINA ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-543 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Alan Yoshida Request: Demolition of rear accessory structure, installation of rear shipping container structure, fencing City Council Dist.: 1] H T R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 5 43 ADDRESS, TWO 20 EAST CAROLINA. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE DEMOLISH A CONTRIBUTING REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, AND TWO, CONSTRUCT THE ONE STORY SHIPPING CONTAINER STYLE REAR STRUCTURE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE DEMOLITION OF THE CONTRIBUTING REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. IF THE H D R C FINDS THAT A LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE HAS OCCURRED OR FINDS THAT THE CRITERIA FOR ESTABLISHING AN UNREASONABLE ECONOMIC ECONOMIC HARDSHIP HAVE BEEN MET AND APPROVES THE REQUESTED DEMOLITION, THEN STAFF MAKES THE FOLLOWING RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING THE NEW CONSTRUCTION REGARDING THE NEW CONSTRUCTION ITEM TWO STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF REQUEST. ITEM TWO, THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ONE STORY REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BASED ON FINDINGS TWO A THROUGH TWO G. INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE. I'M ALAN YOSHIDA. I'M THE OWNER. JUST RECENTLY PURCHASED 2 2 3 CAROLINA. WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS THE, UH, THE SHED WITH THE TWO SMALL DOORS THAT CAN'T EVEN FIT A SUBARU CROSS TREK, SUBARU CROSS TREK'S, A FAIRLY SMALL CAR AND I ALSO HAVE A FORD F ONE 50, SO IF STORMS HAPPEN, [05:15:01] MY CARS ARE COMPLETELY UNPROTECTED. SO WHAT I'D LIKE PERMISSION TO DO IS REMOVE THAT AND BE ABLE TO PUT THE STRUCTURE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT MORE SO WITH THE POWERPOINT SKETCHES. SO I DEFINITELY DIDN'T HIRE A ARCHITECT YET AND SOMETHING THAT CAN GIVE ME THE COVERAGE I NEED FOR MY VEHICLES. I HAVE A FORD F ONE 50 THAT I CAN'T EVEN GET INTO THE BACKYARD BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE IS JUST A LITTLE TOO CLOSE. IT'S ABOUT EIGHT FEET ISH, TOO CLOSE TO THE HOUSE AND THE AIR CONDITIONER AND STUFF LIKE THAT TO GET THE TRUCK IN AND OUT AND IT DOESN'T EVEN FIT THROUGH THE DOORS. SO REQUESTING PERMISSION TO BASICALLY PROTECT MY VEHICLES FROM, UH, STORMS. CAN I ASK STAFF IF WE HAVE THIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE ON A SANDBORN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YES, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S INCLUDED IN THIS. SORRY. DO YOU HAVE ANY, OH, I'M SORRY. THIS YOU FOUND THE SITE PLAN. DO WE HAVE A SITE PLAN THAT WE CAN PUT ON? THIS IS THE CURRENT SURVEY AND ALSO CURRENTLY YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THAT FROM THE STREET, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS WITH THE, UH, DISCUSSION AT ALL. WELL, IT DOESN'T . OKAY. AND I LET, I WANNA TALK ABOUT KIND OF THE, HOW WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS. SO THIS IS A, THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE THAT APPEARS MUCH NEWER THAN THE OLD HOUSE. SAY THAT AGAIN. IT'S NEWER THAN THE OLD HOUSE. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. YEAH, THIS WAS LIKE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN THE TWENTIES AND THE FIFTIES AND THAT OTHER, THE HOUSE IS LIKE THE EARLY 19 HUNDREDS, UM, BEFORE THE HOUSE. I'M GOOD TO GO. YEAH. BEFORE WE GET INTO, UH, COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS, WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. YES, WE DO. UH, VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE OR DO I MOVE? GOOD EVENING. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CONCURS WITH THE STA VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE 91 18 FAIRLAND, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CONCURS WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS CONCERNING THE DEMOLITION OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 2 23 EAST CAROLINA. THE TWO BAY BOARD IN BATON GARAGE REMAINS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF LAVACCA. ITS CONDITION WARRANTS REHABILITATION IN PLACE. ALSO, THE PROPOSED INSTALLATION OF A SHIPPING CONTAINER WITH AN ATTACHED CARPORT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN VOCABULARY. WE URGE THE COMMISSION TO DENY DEMOLITION OF THE HISTORIC ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND THE INSTALLATION OF A SHIPPING CONTAINER. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIOS. THANK YOU PETER. SO QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? IF I COULD JUST ASK STAFF TO READ. I THINK FINDINGS C THAT TALK ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTING STATUS OF THE STRUCTURE STRUCTURE IS A ONE STORY TWO BAY AUTO STRUCTURE CONSTRUCTED IN APPROXIMATELY THE SAME PERIOD AS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. THE STRUCTURE APPEARS ON THE 1911 TO 1951 SANBORN MAP IN APPROXIMATELY THE SAME LOCATION AND FOOTPRINT. THE SANBORN MAP SUGGESTS THE ORIGINAL USE OF A GARAGE AND THE STRUCTURE IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE DISTRICT BASED ON THIS RESEARCH. CAN I, CAN I ASK SETH? IT IT, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT IT'S TWO STRUCTURES JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT KNOWS HOW TO BUILD WOULD NOT HAVE THE PITCHES GO TOGETHER. AND THEN IT LOOKS LIKE ONE OF 'EM HAS A CONCRETE FOUNDATION. ONE SIDE DOES HAVE CONCRETE, THE OTHER SIDE'S DIRT SEE, SO IT SEEMS LIKE HALF OF IT MIGHT BE HISTORIC AND THE OTHER HALF THEY BUILT AND WITHIN THE YEARS IT TOOK THE CHARACTER OF THE OTHER, THOSE HINGES OR NEW HINGES. THE WOOD IS, IS NOT THE, IT DOESN'T LOOK WOOD. THE A LOT OF ROCK, THE EAVES ARE DIFFERENT. UM, SO SOMETHING IS PROBABLY THE PIECE THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE FENCE IS HISTORIC AND THE ONE NEXT TO IT IS, OR THE ONE ON THE CONCRETE FOUNDATION IS NOT HISTORIC. THAT'S THE ONE TO THE RIGHT. SO STAFF ALSO CONSIDERS THE TIME PERIOD OF CONSTRUCTION IN TERMS OF, UM, NOT JUST ORIGINAL TO THE SITE, BUT ALSO OVER TIME. SO WE HAVE REASONABLE BELIEF TO BELIEVE THAT THAT ADDITION, IF IT WERE TO ADDITION WOULD WERE TO BE, HAVE DONE OVER 50 YEARS AGO, WHICH WOULD TAKE ON ITS OWN SIGNIFICANCE. SO THAT'S THE BASIS OF OUR RECOMMENDATION FOR RETENTION. BUT, AND AND WHY, WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT IT WAS 50 YEARS? I MEAN, BASED ON THE SANDBORNE MAP THAT WE'RE FINDING RIGHT NOW, , IT, [05:20:01] IT SHOWS BOTH PITCHES. I MEAN THE LINE, THE LINES ON THE SANDBORN MAP SHOW THE LINES OF THE ROOF OR WE'RE PULLING IT UP. RIGHT NOW, THE SANBORNS AREN'T GONNA SHOW US WHAT THE BUILDING LOOK LIKE. WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT BUILDING FOOTPRINTS ON A, A MAP. AND SO WE'RE GENERALLY MATCHING THE SIZE AND THE LOCATION OF BUILDING FOOTPRINTS WITH WHAT WE SEE. IT'S NOT 100% ACCURATE, BUT IT GIVES US A GOOD IDEA. JUST ANOTHER COMMENT. OFTEN IT, IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR THESE, UM, ACCESSORY STRUCTURES TO HAVE BEEN BUILT WITH DIRT FLOORS AND THEN HAVE CONCRETE KINDA SLURRY SLABS BROUGHT IN AFTERWARDS O OVER TIME. UM, SO THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE CONSTANTLY BEING MODIFIED AND ADDED ONTO SO STAFFS GOT IT. RIGHT, RIGHT. IT'S A HISTORIC BUILDING AND WE'RE, AND IT'S REPAIRABLE. UM, NOW IT'S THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP THERE. YEAH. SO I CAN GO INTO THAT IF, IF YOU'D LIKE, LET ME TALK ABOUT THE, THE FIRST APPROACH THAT WE WOULD USE TO STRUCTURE. I BELIEVE IT'S CONTRIBUTING, UH, NO MATTER WHAT THEY FIND ON THE MAPS, I, I THINK I'VE SEEN THEM AND, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S, IT'S CONTRIBUTING. SO FOR US TO CONSIDER A DEMOLITION, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WE HAVE TO FIND ONE OF TWO THINGS. LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE, WHICH MEANS IT'S DETERIORATED SIGNIFICANTLY ENOUGH BEYOND REPAIR ALTERATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE TO THE EXTENT THAT ITS SIGNIFICANCE HAS BEEN LOST. THAT'S THE 50% DAMAGE THING? NO, NOT NECESSARILY. IT, IT, IT'S MAYBE A FELLOW COMMISSIONER COULD HELP ME ON WEIGHT THAT LIKE TWO AREA OR SOMETHING IN YOUR RULES GENERALLY WE'LL WEIGH A LOSS OF CONS. UH, A LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE BASED ON A LOSS OF A CRITICAL AMOUNT OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL. YEAH, EXACTLY. NOT A, NOT A 50% THIS OR THAT SORT OF THING, OR A CRITICAL AMOUNT OF STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY. YEAH, THAT WAS THE 50% THING, RIGHT? TWO A OR SOMETHING. WELL, THAT, THAT JUST MEANS LIKE IF, IF YOU ARE, IF SIGNIFICANT VERTICAL STRUCTURAL MEMBERS AREN'T REPAIRABLE OR IF THE CONNECTION TO THE FOUNDATION IS NON-EXISTENT AND THE STRUCTURE IS ROTTING TO THE GROUND, OR IF, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT DETERIORATED BEYOND REPAIR, MORE THAN 50% IN KIND REPLACEMENT. THAT ONE, THE PRINCIP PRINCIPLE NUMBER TWO, SAY FOR INSTANCE IT WAS A HOUSE THAT SOMEBODY CHANGED AND CHANGED AND CHANGED AND CHANGED AND THEN ONE DAY NONE OF THE OLD HOUSE WAS THERE ANYMORE. UH, COMMISSIONER FISH, CAN YOU CONTINUE? WELL, WE'RE ON THE RIGHT PATH. JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE AT RULE WISE. I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE IN THIS CASE. I THINK WE'VE SEEN, I ASSURE YOU, I ASSURE YOU, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS COMMISSION WILL FIND, BASED ON THE EXTERIOR PHOTOS ALONE, A LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE THAT, THAT IT'S, UH, DETERIORATED TO A STATE THAT IT'S NOT REPAIRABLE. UM, WE DO OCCASIONALLY MAKE SITE VISITS TO INSPECT THE INTERIOR TO SEE THINGS THAT AREN'T, UH, OFFERED IN EVIDENCE. AND, UH, MAYBE WE CAN CONSIDER THAT. UH, I, I DON'T THINK I CAN'T GET TO AN APPROVAL ON DEMOLITION. WHAT I MAY BE ABLE TO CONSIDER, UH, THAT MAY BE A SOLUTION TO YOU, UM, IS THAT, THAT THIS HISTORIC STRUCTURE BE REPAIRED AND RELOCATED FURTHER BACK ON THE LOT TO ALLOW THE, THE TRUCK TO COME IN. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS FEEL ABOUT THIS, BUT NOW YOU, YOU ANTICIPATE KIND OF WHERE I WAS, UH, THINKING ABOUT THIS AS WELL. THAT IT MAY BE THAT THIS, HE HAS A DEEP ENOUGH LOT THAT HE, HE OR, UH, WIDE ENOUGH LOT THAT HE MAY BE ABLE TO SHIFT IT OVER, RETAIN THAT AS A, AS AS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND THEN COME IN WITH A NEW STRUCTURE. UM, THEN THE, THE SECOND PART OF THIS IS THE CHARACTER OF THE ADDITION THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING HERE. THE, UH, AND, AND I DON'T THINK A, UM, A, UH, WHILE THEY'RE VERY TRENDY RIGHT NOW, THE, UH, SHIPPING CONTAINERS, UH, UH, ARE VERY POPULAR AMONGST, UH, DESIGNERS RIGHT NOW. I DON'T THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD TO HAVE THE SHIPPING CONTAINER IN THERE. WELL, LAVACCA HAS A LOT OF, AND I THINK THAT THE DESIGN OR WHAT RIGHT NOW IS NOT EVEN ON THE TABLE BECAUSE WE CAN'T REALLY GET RID OF, WE CAN'T APPROVE A DEMOLITION. HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE FEEL ABOUT, SINCE WE CAN'T GET RID OF THESE EXISTING STRUCTURE AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RELOCATE, RELOCATING IT ON THE SITE, THERE'S ANOTHER CRITICAL ASPECT OF THIS, WHICH IS THE CANOPY, THE AWNING. UH, WHAT, WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT THAT? BECAUSE I THINK THERE, THERE'S, WITH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, THERE COULD BE SOME REALLY BEAUTIFUL CREATIVE WAYS OF IN, YOU KNOW, INCORPORATING A, AN EXTERIOR COVERED CANOPY THAT WOULD MEET A LOT OF YOUR NEEDS. UM, AND SO I THINK THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO EXPLORE. WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PARTS HERE AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE, AND I AGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS THAT I DON'T SEE A LOSS OF SIGNIFICANCE TO THESE STRUCTURES. [05:25:01] UH, THERE MAY BE A POSSIBILITY TO RELOCATE 'EM ON THE SITE, RECONSTRUCT THEM. UM, ONE SUGGESTION IS TO, UH, SEND THIS TO A D R C WHERE WE COULD TALK MORE, UH, INFORMALLY AND A UH, GREATER LENGTH TO, UH, POSSIBLY INCORPORATE, UH, YOUR COVERED PORTION THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FOR YOUR PROTECTION, BUT INCORPORATING IT INTO THE EXISTING STRUCTURES OR, UH, COMPLIMENTING THE EXISTING STRUCTURES WITH A SOME SORT OF COVERED PORTION. COULD A COURSE OF ACTION BE ALRIGHT? SO I CAN'T PUT SOMETHING MODERN THAT'S GOING UP ON LEE STREET, JUST UP THE ROAD. I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING OLD. CAN I TAKE THE INTENT OR THE IDEA OF THIS OLD THING AND THEN MAKE IT SO IT CAN FIT THE VEHICLES? 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW THE DOORS JUST CAN'T EVEN FIT THOSE THINGS IN IT LIKE THE SUBARU CROSSTREK TINY LITTLE CAR. SO WE, I DON'T THINK IN ANY WAY THAT THE SHIPPING CONTAINER WAS A TOTAL DENIAL. I THINK YOU KNOW, IT JUST BECAUSE THE DEMOLITION. SO MAYBE IF YOU WANNA FIND ANOTHER PLACE, BUT YOU CAN'T DEMOLISH THOSE. SO WE WE'RE WILLING TO GET ANOTHER PRO PROPOSAL. THE TRUCK DOESN'T FIT BACK THERE SO THERE'S LIKE A DISTANCE CHALLENGE. HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU TESTED THE SHIPPING CONTAINERS TOO, FOR VEHICULAR? UH, 'CAUSE THOSE THINGS ARE TIED. NO, I'M, I'M NOT PARKING THE VEHICLE IN, SO IF WE CAN PULL UP MY NOT ARCHITECTURAL DRAWING. THE OVERHANG CONTAINER IS FOR STORAGE. YEAH, IT'S, IT'S DOING THE JOB OF THE SHED. THEN YOUR COVERED AREA IS FOR YOUR VEHICLES. EXACTLY. OKAY. BUT I'M ALSO SHIFTING IT BACK, SHIFTING IT BACK TO THE BACK OF THE LOT SO THAT I CAN ACTUALLY GET THE TRUCK IN THERE. 'CAUSE THE TRUCK'S LONGER THAN THE CROSSTREK. THE CROSSTREK DOESN'T EVEN FIT IN THE DOORS OF THIS SHED. I, I THINK, I THINK IF WE MOVE THIS TO D R C, YOU WOULD BASICALLY COME SIT DOWN WITH A FEW OF US AND THEN WE WOULD MAYBE HELP YOU DRAW UP SOMETHING THAT WOULD WORK. AND I THINK THAT, THAT WOULD BE, UH, BENEFICIAL TO YOU AND, AND MOVING FORWARD. YEAH. DON'T NEED TO ACTION. BEFORE I, I WAS TO HIRE AN ARCHITECT. I DIDN'T WANNA ITEM ONE, HAVE A NO IN FRONT OF ME, WHICH IS DEMOLISHING, I MEAN, OH, DEMOLISH VISIT WITH D R C YOU GUYS, I'M JUST ASKING IF WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION ON ITEM NUMBER ONE, WHICH IS A DEMOLITION, BECAUSE SENDING IT TO D R C WON'T CHANGE ANYTHING ON A DEMOLITION. SENDING THIS TO D R C WOULD THERE WOULD BE NO ACTION TAKEN ON THIS REQUEST PENDING A DEMOLITION, IT WOULD STILL BE PENDING. CORRECT. MOVE TO, UH, MOVE THIS TO D R C. SECOND MOTION IS SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU, EDWARD OR ONE OF THE STAFF WILL GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU TO ARRANGE FOR THAT MEETING VIA EMAIL OR SOMETHING, SO, OKAY. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. AGENDA, ITEM NUMBER B [B-19 19-6996 Address/Description: 706 E QUINCY HDRC Case No.: 2019-519 Applicant: Guy Chipman III/Guy Chipman Construction L.P. Request: Driveway modifications City Council Dist.: 1] 19, CASE NUMBER 20 19 5 19 AT 7 0 6 EAST QUINCY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO MAKE A WIDER CURVE CUT DRIVEWAY FROM 12 FEET TO APPROXIMATELY 20 FEET AND CREATE A LARGER PARKING PAD IN THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON THE FINDINGS. SIR, WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF? GOOD EVENING. I'M WOOD CHIPMAN. I'M WITH GUY CHIPMAN CONSTRUCTION. I REPRESENT, UH, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, STO, UH, WHO IS A RESIDENT OF CORPUS AND WAS NOT ABLE TO ATTEND. AND, UM, HIS PLANS FOR THE PROPERTY, UH, ARE RIGHT NOW THE PROPERTY IS CONSTRUCTED AS MULTIFAMILY. I THINK IT'S ESSENTIALLY A TRIPLEX OR MAYBE A, MAYBE FOURPLEX AT ONE TIME. UM, AND HE, HE WANTS TO UTILIZE THE PROPERTY FOR A SAN ANTONIO RESIDENCE WHEN HE COMES TO BUSINESS IN TOWN. AND, UM, THE, AND LIVE IN THE, THE, TAKE THE TWO UNITS ON THE UPPER FLOOR AND COMBINE 'EM INTO ONE, UH, PROPERTY FOR HIMSELF. AND THEN, UH, RENT OUT THE FIRST FLOOR AS A COMMERCIAL, UH, ENDEAVOR. UM, THE PROPERTY NOW HAS ABOUT A 10 FOOT DRIVEWAY PROP, APPROXIMATELY A 12 FOOT APPROACH OR APRON TO THE STREET. AND THE, UM, IT, THE DRIVEWAY AT ONE TIME MAY HAVE BEEN ASPHALT. THERE'S VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE OF IT BEING, UH, WHAT IT IS. UH, I THINK THERE'S, YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE ASPHALT, BUT THERE'S ALSO A NARROW CURBING, UH, ABOUT THREE FEET OFF THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, UM, ABOUT A THREE INCH WIDE CURB. UM, I SUBMITTED WE, UH, SOME OTHER PHOTOS OF, OF THE AREA THIS, THIS AFTERNOON IN RESPONSE TO THE, UM, H D R C REVIEW [05:30:01] COMMENTS. UM, WE HAPPENED TO BE THERE WITH A DESIGNER, UH, A FEW DAYS AGO. AND, UM, AT THAT TIME, UH, A YOUNG MAN IN A WHEELCHAIR CAME DOWN THE SIDEWALK AND HE REALLY HAD TO SLOW DOWN HIS PRO HIS PROGRESS TO CROSS THAT, UH, BROKEN PIECE OF SIDEWALK RIGHT THERE. AND IF YOU GO BACK A COUPLE OF SLIDES, WE, YOU CAN SEE, UM, DOWN THE STREET. HE IS ONE MORE, MAYBE YOU CAN SEE HE, THAT'S HIM DRIVING DOWN THE STREET BY THE YIELD SIDE, JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, THAT DARK VEHICLE. UH, THE, THE, THE SIDEWALKS ARE IN SUCH BAD REPAIR THAT THIS YOUNG MAN IN A WHEELCHAIR WAS FORCED TO TRAVEL DOWN THE STREET BECAUSE THE, UH, THE SIDEWALKS ARE IN SUCH BAD SHAPE. UM, THE, UH, IN THE AREA THERE IS A LOT OF, UH, THERE'S SEVERAL HISTORIC HOMES, UH, STILL IN EXISTENCE. THERE'S A LOT OF COMMERCIAL VEHICLE, UH, BUSINESSES UP AND DOWN THE STREET AS WELL. UM, BUT, UH, IF YOU LOOK, UM, TWO HOUSES, UH, TO THE, UH, WEST, UM, SEE, UH, 6 26 EAST QUINCY AS A COMMERCIAL BUILDING ON, UM, THAT'S THE, THE SIDE STREET THERE THAT'S 6 26 EAST QUINCY. UH, I GUESS IT'S A, A HISTORIC STRUCTURE. IT'S A LEGAL OFFICE. IT'S PROBABLY GOT A 15 OR 16 FOOT APPROACH RIGHT THERE. UM, THERE'S ANOTHER BUILDING, TWO HOUSES TO THE EAST THAT'S, UM, 7 0 3, LET'S SEE, 7 0 3 EAST QUINCY, UM, ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT. THERE'S ANOTHER BUILDING WITH A WIDE APPROACH. UM, THIS IS A, A, A STREET WHERE THERE'S ON STREET PARKING. UM, THE EXISTING APPROACH IS VERY DIFFICULT TO, WHEN CARS ARE PARKED UP NEXT TO IT, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO GET IN IF YOU, UH, GO TO THE VIEW FROM ACROSS THE STREET EIGHT THERE. YES. UM, USUALLY CARS ARE PARKED RIGHT UP TO THE EDGE OF THAT, UH, THAT CURB CUT RIGHT THERE AND COMING DOWN QUINCY, WHICH IS A BUSY STREET, IT'S DIFFICULT TO MAKE IT AROUND THE CORNER INTO THAT AREA. UM, ONE OF THE COMMENTS FROM THE STAFF WAS THAT, UH, UH, THE INCREASE IN IMPERVIOUS COVER WAS AN ISSUE. UM, WE CAN MITIGATE THAT BY USING A GRASSY PAVER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THE OTHER ISSUE WAS THAT THE VIEW OF THE, UH, THE HOUSE WOULD BE, UM, OBSTRUCTED BY, BY VEHICULAR, UH, PARKING THERE. UM, BUT BECAUSE THIS IS, IS COMMERCIALLY ZONED, THIS, UH, AREA IS ZONED, UM, F B Z, UH, T FOUR DASH ONE, WHICH IS HISTORIC SIGNIFICANT, UM, FORM-BASED ZONING. UM, BUT I, I BELIEVE THAT, UM, SINCE THERE'S A PRECEDENCE FOR OTHER BUILDINGS IN THE IMMEDIATE, UH, AREA THAT HAVE LARGER APPROACHES, UM, NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO, BECAUSE IT'S, UH, COMMERCIALLY ZONED, IT, IT, UM, SHOULD BE GRANTED. UH, PARKING. WE'RE ESSENTIALLY REQUESTING TO, YOU CAN SEE THE YELLOW SIGN IN THE, IN THE YARD, UH, APPROXIMATELY ONE THIRD OR LESS, PROBABLY A AQUA 25% DECREASE IN THE, THE GRASS IN THE FRONT YARD. UM, AND WE WERE GONNA BORDER THAT PAVING, UH, WITH A, UH, THREE INCH CURVE SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON, ON OTHER AREAS ON THE SITE. UM, I HAVE ONE PHOTO I DIDN'T SUBMIT WHERE YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT, A LITTLE NARROW CURVE RUNNING ALONG THERE. WE'RE TRYING, IT'S IN THE APPLICATION PACKAGE. I THINK I SAW IT. YEAH. OH, THAT, THAT PHOTO IS IN THERE. OKAY. I GOT A QUICK QUESTION WHILE YOU HAD THIS. OH, PLAN WENT AWAY. CAN WE PULL THIS SITE PLAN UP? THIS IS CURRENTLY ZONED, UH, OR IT BEING, HAS A COMMERCIAL USE IN HIS OWN COMMERCIAL. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. UM, HAS IT, I SEE A WOOD RAMP LABELED HERE. DOES IT HAVE A, AN ACCESS, AN ACCESSIBLE RAMP? NO. BEEN, UH, REMOVED. IT DOES NOT HAVE ONE AT PRESENT. THAT'S AN UPDATED PLAN OR SOMETHING. [05:35:07] SO I'M NOT SEEING ANY DIMENSIONS FOR THE PROPOSED, UH, ADDITIONAL PARKING AREA. WHAT IS THE DISTANCE FROM THE BACKSIDE OF THE SIDEWALK TO YOUR, YOUR CURB THAT, UH, YOU'RE CREATING AT? THAT ONE SUGGESTION IS, UH, SINCE THE FIRST FLOOR, WELL, SINCE IT'S ZONE COMMERCIAL, AND, UH, YOU WOULD NEED AN ACCESSIBLE ROUTE TO THE FIRST FLOOR, WHICH IS COMMERCIAL POLICE SPOT, IS TO, UM, PUT IN THE, OR REPLACE THE VERY DETERIORATED APPROACH AND PUT IN A CONCRETE, UH, DRIVE TO THE BACK WHERE YOU COULD HAVE YOUR PARKING AND YOUR, UH, ACCESSIBLE ENTRY. UM, IF IT DOESN'T HAVE THE WOOD RAMP NOW, YOU'LL, YOU'LL NEED TO, UH, I ASSUME, UH, PROVIDE AN ACCESSIBLE ENTRY TO THE BUILDING. SO, UM, HERE'S THAT, UH, THERE IS A FAIRLY LARGE BACKYARD WHERE, UH, ADEQUATE PARKING COULD BE PROVIDED AND THEN, UM, A, AN ACCESSIBLE RAMP DESIGNED TO, UH, COME IN OFF THE, THE BACK PARKING IN TERMS OF REPLACING THE EXISTING APPROACH. UM, I THINK THAT COULD BE DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY, BUT, UH, EXTENDING THE, THE DRIVE BACK TO AND PROVIDE PARKING IN THE BACK WOULD BE MY SUGGESTION. WELL, I MEAN, THERE WAS ORIGINALLY A DRIVEWAY GOING TO THE BACK, UM, THERE, BUT, AND THE PLAN IS TO BUILD A SEPARATE STRUCTURE IN THE BACK, UH, WITH A, UM, APARTMENT ON, ON TOP AND A PARKING BELOW, AND THEN UTILIZE THE BACK AREA FOR PARKING. BUT, UM, THAT'S A LATER PHASE OF THE PROJECT. AND INITIALLY WE WILL, UM, JUST HAVE SOME KIND OF PARKING OFF OF THE STREET THAT REQUIRE MANEUVERING DOWN THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING. 'CAUSE IT IS A NARROW DRIVEWAY. WHAT IS THE DIS THE DIMENSION FROM THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE FENCE TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE? A NOT MORE THAN 10 FEET, 10.3 FOR THE COMMISSIONER'S REFERENCE STAFF. JUST NOTICED THAT THE SITE PLAN SUBMITTED IS ACTUALLY THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY, AS YOU CAN SEE WITH THE FULL ASPHALT, UH, REAR YARD. SO THIS ISN'T THE SITE PLAN. SO THE PROJECT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, YES, THE OWNER WAS GIVEN THE WRONG SITE PLAN, BUT I GUESS WE GET THE IDEA. YOU WANNA, THERE'S TWO THINGS HERE. YOU WANNA WIDEN THE CURB FROM 12 FEET TO 20. THE GUIDELINES SAY 10, YOU ALREADY HAVE 12, I THINK STEPS. GOT IT RIGHT THERE. I THINK IT'S, IT, I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO GET THAT ONE. UM, AND THEN THE ASPHALT IN FRONT OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, I WOULD SAY, I MEAN, MY MAIN REASON IS, UM, WE NORMALLY DON'T, YOU KNOW, LIKE CAR PARKING IN FRONT OF HOMES. SO EVEN THOUGH IT'S ZONED COMMERCIAL OR WHATEVER IT IS, I WOULD, I WOULD CONCUR WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER. I THINK YOU'RE GONNA FIND PARKING IN THE BACK. UM, IN THE LONG RUN, PROBABLY A BETTER SOLUTION. AND I THINK YOU'RE GONNA FIND YOUR DRIVEWAY IS MORE LIKE 13 TO 14 FEET. UM, I, IT'S, IT'S LOOKS MUCH LARGER THAN 10 FEET. SO I THINK THE NEIGHBORING LOT IS REALLY, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS NOTICING. THIS HEIGHT PLAN SHOWED A 10 FOOT NARROW DRIVE AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE PROPERTY SHOW A MUCH WIDER SPACE. SO I'M WILLING TO APPROVE A CONCRETE DRIVE OF 10 FEET AND, UH, ALIGNED WITH THE CURRENT APRON, UH, THAT FLARES UP TO 12 FEET. AND A A ADDITIONALLY, UM, HARD LANDSCAPE MATERIAL ON MAYBE EITHER SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY, UH, ADDING A, A FOOT IN, IN FUNCTIONAL WIDTH TO EACH SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY. UM, LET ME TRY TO MAKE THAT INTO A MOTION. WHEN YOU SAY HARD LANDSCAPE MATERIAL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? LIKE BRICK, A BRICK BOARD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? SURE. IT COULD BE A MASON, LIKE A PAVED, UH, MASONRY [05:40:01] PATTERN. UM, SO THAT THE, THE VISUAL WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY IS CONSISTENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT YOU GET MORE, UH, DRIVE SURFACE THAT DOESN'T TURN INTO MUD. MAYBE DECOMPOSE GRANITE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IF PEOPLE, MORE ROOM TO WALK PAST A VEHICLE PARKED ON THE DRIVEWAY, THAT, AND TO KEEP THE WHEELS ON THE, ON THE HARD SURFACE. SO, UM, I MOVE FOR, UH, APPROVAL OF A NEW CONCRETE DRIVEWAY, UH, WIDTH OF 10 FOOT WITH AN ADDITIONAL FOOT IN WIDTH ON EITHER SIDE OF HARDSCAPE. WOULD YOU CON, UH, CONSIDER INCLUDING THE INFORMATION YOU HAD ABOUT THE, THE APRON AS WELL? THE EXISTING APRON? FIND ME WHAT THAT WAS. UH, THAT IT'S CENTERED ON THE EXISTING APRON, BUT THAT YOU CAN REPLACE THE, THE DAMAGED APRON AND THAT THE NEW DRIVEWAY BE CENTERED ON THE EXISTING APRON, BUT THAT THE EXISTING APRON AND SIDEWALK CAN BE REPAIRED IN KIND. I, I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, UM, ABOUT THAT MOTION. IS IT A RIBBON DRIVE WITH, UM, BRICK INFILL OR IS IT SOLID CONCRETE? UM, MY INTENT OF THE MOTION IS THAT IT WERE SOLID WITH ADDITIONAL MATERIAL ON EITHER SIDE. I, I'LL SECOND THAT A MOTION AND A SECOND. UH, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION. DO WE NEED TO SPECIFY THE LENGTH OF THE DRIVE AT THIS POINT? THINK IT CAN GO BACK A GOOD WAYS. , LET'S JUST ASK THE APPLICANT TO JUST REVISE, UH, THIS CORRECT SITE PLAN. AND BASED ON THIS, UH, YOU CAN MAYBE JUST, UH, WORK WITH STAFF. OKAY. ON THE LENGTH OF IT, I THINK YOU CAN DECIDE THAT WITH STAFF. 'CAUSE THE LENGTH MAY DEPEND ON YOUR, YOUR BUDGET AT THIS POINT AND THE REVISED PLAT. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED A NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [B-20 19-6988 Address/Description: 630 E CARSON HDRC Case No.: 2019-509 Historic District Name: Government Hill Applicant: Michael Heller Request: Window replacement, amendment to previously approved addition City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM NUMBER B 20, CASE NUMBER 20 19 5 0 9 AT SIX 30 EAST CARSON, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE ALL EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS WITH JELLED WIND, CUSTOM WOOD WINDOWS, AND TWO, TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ADDITION. FROM 64 SUITE TO 64 SQUARE FEET TO 90 SQUARE FEET, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE ADDITION AMENDMENT AND ONLY PARTIAL WINDOW REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDING B THROUGH D. WITH THE FALLING STIPULATIONS, ONE WHOLESALE NEW WINDOW INSTALLATION SHOULD ONLY BE CONDUCTED ON MISSING WINDOWS, WHICH STAFF IDENTIFIES EIGHT AND TWO, UH, PER THE PROVIDED CONTRACTORS QUOTE, WINDOWS IDENTIFIED AS REPAIRABLE SHOULD BE REPAIRED IN KIND, WHICH STAFF IDENTIFIED AS 18 AND THREE. ALL WORK WEATHER REPLACEMENT OR REPAIR SHOULD BE IN KIND TO THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS, INCLUDING THE STANDARD STIPULATIONS NOTED IN FINDING D. FINISH YOURSELF PLEASE. HI, I'M MICHAEL HELLER. I'M THE OWNER AND RESIDENT OF SIX 30 CARSON. SO THE REASON I'LL START WITH THE REASON THERE ARE MISSING WINDOWS IS THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL PORCHES ADDED TO THIS HOUSE OVER THE YEARS, AND, UM, THEY WERE ENCLOSED TO CREATE MORE LIVING SPACE. THERE WERE SEVEN APARTMENTS IN THE MAIN HOUSE, AND THEN THE CASITA IN THE BACK WAS NUMBER EIGHT. WHEN WE REMOVED THOSE PORCHES AND DEMOED THE INTERIOR, THAT'S WHEN I DISCOVERED THE WOOD, THE WINDOW OPENINGS. UM, AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE UPSTAIRS THAT HAD JUST SIMPLY DISINTEGRATED AND, AND WAS GONE. SO, UM, JOHN BULANT, MY CONTRACTOR, HE OWNS JAY CRAWFORD CONSTRUCTION, HAD TOLD ME EARLY ON THAT IT WAS NOT GONNA BE FEASIBLE TO REPAIR THE EXISTING WINDOWS. I FOUGHT HIM ON THAT. I WAS DETERMINED TO, TO SAVE THE WINDOWS AND, AND REPAIR THEM. UM, SO I CONTACTED SOME PROFESSIONAL HISTORIC WOOD WINDOW RESTORES. THE FIRST QUOTE TO REPAIR THE EXISTING WINDOWS AND TO FABRICATE THE MISSING WINDOWS WAS $80,990. AND THEN BARON RESTORATION, UH, DANIEL SIDLER, WHEN HE CAME TO DO THIS, HIS SITE VISIT, HE SAID THE SAME THING. HE SAID, IT'S NOT REALLY FEASIBLE TO REPAIR THESE WINDOWS, UH, A MUCH MORE, UH, SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE MUCH MORE FINANCIAL SENSE, WOULD JUST RE FABRICATE ALL OF THEM. AND HIS QUOTE WAS $45,162. AND THE JIN HISTORIC WOOD WINDOWS FOR ALL 24 OPENINGS COSTS $22,971. THE COST OF THIS, OF THE REHAB AT THIS HOUSE, UH, RIGHT NOW IS AT $338,000, $338,800. UM, AND TAKING THE RED, RED RIVER RESTORATION QUOTE, JUST REPAIRING THE EXISTING WINDOWS, YOU TAKE OUT THE, THE COST OF WHAT THEY HAD SAID TO FABRICATE THE MISSING WINDOWS, AND JUST TALK ABOUT THE COST OF REPAIRING WHAT WAS THERE THAT CAME TO AN EXTRA 50 3005, UH, $390. UM, I CAN TELL YOU A LOT MORE ABOUT [05:45:01] THE GENERAL CONDITION OF THE HOME WHEN I BOUGHT IT, AND, UH, WHAT A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER SAID ABOUT IT, UM, AND WHY I THINK THAT'S SIGNIFICANT TO THE WINDOWS. BUT I'LL SAVE THAT AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW. FIRST, I THINK I REMEMBER APPROVING THIS A WHILE BACK. I THINK YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON IT FOR A WHILE, ? YES. UM, JUST SCROLLING THROUGH THE PICTURES AND LOOKING AT THIS CASE. UM, I THINK WE'VE SEEN WINDOWS THAT ARE REPAIRABLE. I WOULD SAY YOU'RE KIND OF ON THE, ON THE BORDERLINE OF BEING REPAIRABLE. UM, I THINK YOU'RE PUTTING A LOT OF MONEY INTO THIS PROPERTY AND THE PROJECT, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT, IS GONNA BE, I MEAN, PRETTY BEAUTIFUL HOME. UM, I WOULD ENTERTAIN, UM, AN APPROVAL OF REPLACING IN KIND ALL THE WINDOWS OF THE HOME. YES. UM, IF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS DON'T AGREE WITH THAT, THEN I WOULD PROBABLY, UM, MOVE FOR A D R C TO GO VISIT ON A SITE VISIT AND REALLY LOOK AT THE, UM, AT THE WINDOWS, BECAUSE THE PICTURES REALLY SHOW SOME KIND OF BORDERLINE, I WOULD SAY. I, I APPRECIATE MY COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS. UH, I I DON'T THINK I COULD SUPPORT A WHOLESALE APPROVAL TODAY. I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE, UH, FOR BEING HERE. THE IMAGES OF THE WINDOWS LOOK LIKE MORE THAN 18 THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED BY STAFF FOR BEYOND REPAIR FIGHT VISIT TO LOOK AT THE CONDITION OF THE WINDOWS. UM, WELL, WE HAVE EVIDENCE HERE OF THOSE WINDOWS. DO YOU MIND JUST A WALK THROUGH THE 18 WINDOWS THAT STAFF IS SAYING IN REPAIRABLE RIGHT NOW? OH, THE SLIDESHOW. SURE. WHAT, WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR IS THAT A MAJORITY OF THE WINDOWS IN AN ELEVATION ARE BEYOND REPAIR. I'M LOOKING FOR A THRESHOLD AND I, AND I DON'T SEE IT, UH, YET. SO A WALK THROUGH THE 18 WINDOWS IN QUESTION MAY HELP US. OKAY. QUICK, A A QUICK ONE. MAYBE WE, IF WE COULD START WITH JUST THE FRONT WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS REPAIRABLE. THEY, WELL, IF I CAN JUST SAY THEY'VE IDENTIFIED ANYONE THAT'S STILL THERE AS REPAIRABLE THAT DAY. OH. HAS STAFF GONE THERE OR IS THIS BY PICTURES? IT'S BOTH, UH, A SITE VISIT AS WELL AS CONFERENCE WITH THE TWO, UH, PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS, NOT MY CONTRACTORS. THEY DIDN'T SAY THEY WERE REPAIRABLE. OKAY. YEAH, I WAS GONNA, I'M SORRY. YEAH, I WAS GETTING CONFUSED. THE TWO QUOTES THAT ARE PROVIDED IN THE SUBMISSION, YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE REPLACEABLE, THEY'RE REPAIRABLE BECAUSE OF THE QUOTES. SO, UM, YOU, THE SITE VISIT AND THE QUOTES, MAY I CLARIFY SOMETHING ON THE, THIS, THIS QUOTE WAS SOMETHING I GAVE TO, UM, RED RIVER. WELL, BOTH RED RIVER RESTORATIONS AND BARON RESTORATIONS, THEY WERE JUST MY AMATEUR ASSESSMENT OF THIS WINDOW'S HERE. IT NEEDS TO BE REPAIRED. UM, THAT'S WHY I WROTE THE WORDS REPAIR. THAT WASN'T THEIR ASSESSMENT. THAT WAS JUST, THIS IS WHAT IT WOULD COST TO REPAIR IT, IF THAT HELPS. OKAY. UH, WE WITH THIS LIST AND IS IT Y'ALL CONCLUSION THAT, UH, A GOOD PORTION OF THE WINDOWS COULD BE REPAIRED? YES, I DO. I MEAN, I, FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, YEAH, IT, SOME, ANYTHING CAN BE DONE. AND THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M AT. UM, WITH THE, WITH THE CONDITION OF THE HOME, UM, AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY, AMOUNT OF MONEY I'M ALREADY SPENDING TO, TO SAVE THIS HOME. UM, THAT, THAT'S REALLY, I WAS, AGAIN, I WAS ALL ABOUT KEEPING THESE WINDOWS AND I, I, I FOUGHT MY CONTRACTOR ON THAT. UM, IT WASN'T UNTIL I SAW THE BILL THAT, UH, I CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT IT. AND THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT IS ABOUT AT THIS POINT. QUESTION, ARE YOU GOING FOR, UH, HISTORIC TAX CREDITS ON THIS? YES. AND ARE YOU AWARE OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY GRANT PROGRAM? NOT FULLY, NO. JUST THEY, WELL, THEY'VE GOT ANOTHER WEEK OR TWO TO PUT IN APPLICATIONS FOR, UM, RESTORATION GRANTS, AND I THINK THEY CAN GIVE UP TO 25,000 PER GRANT. SO, UM, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO MAYBE REACH OUT TO THEM AND, UH, THEY COULD, UH, MIGHT APPLY IT FOR THEIR GRANT PROGRAM TO HELP YOU WITH SOME OF THIS WORK. I, I MIGHT COMMENT THAT I, I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WALK THROUGH THIS HOUSE BACK WHEN IT WAS, UH, FOR SALE [05:50:01] BEFORE YOU PURCHASED IT, AND IT IS IN REALLY ROUGH CONDITION. I APPRECIATE THAT YOU'VE TAKEN IT ON. IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT HAD GONE THROUGH A LOT OF MODIFICATIONS. THE, UH, I GUESS ALONG THE EAST SIDE, THE, THE FRONT PORCHES THAT HAD BEEN ADDED IN AND A LOT OF MODIFIC, IT JUST, IT WAS REAL MESS. AND SO I'M GLAD YOU'RE, YOU'RE TAKING IT ON AND I'M, AND I WISH YOU GREAT LUCK WITH IT. UM, THERE WAS SIGNIFICANT ROT IN DETERIORATION TO THIS, AND I USUALLY DEFER TO STAFF'S, UM, UH, JUDGMENT ON THE, UM, ON THE REPAIRABILITY OF THESE OF WINDOWS WHEN THEY GO OUT AND, AND MAKE THESE JUDGMENTS. BUT FROM WHAT I RECALL, UM, IT WAS SO DETERIORATED. WE RAN IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. AND SO I, I WOULD, UH, THERE, THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES TO BE DEALT WITH ON THIS PROPERTY THAT I, THIS IS ONE OF THE ONES THAT I WOULD GIVE MORE LENIENCY ON BECAUSE I, I THINK THE WINDOWS WERE IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE. THE, THE, UH, THE GEN WELD THING THAT THAT'S WRITTEN HERE IS THAT TO MATCH THE LINE AND THE DIMENSION OF EVERY WINDOW? YES, EXACTLY. EXACTLY AS IT IS IN A HISTORIC STYLE GEN WELD PRODUCT. CORRECT. WILL YOU MATCH THOSE? IF WE WERE TO DO SOME, UH, REPAIR, REPLACING KIND, UM, ARE YOU GONNA MATCH THOSE FRONT WINDOWS WITH THE, THE DIAMONDS? YEAH. YES. 'CAUSE I EVEN SEE ONE WINDOW IS PROBABLY MISSING A DIAMOND 'CAUSE IT WAS PROBABLY BROKEN AND THEY JUST DIDN'T REPLACE IT, OR CORRECT. PROBABLY SPECULATION, BUT PROBABLY. AND, UM, AND, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MUTTON WIDTH MATCHED EXACTLY. I MEAN, TO, TO EVERY DETAIL. I, I THINK THE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOW SIGNIFICANT DETERIORATION ON THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE WINDOWS THAT WERE, UH, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED. SECOND PLACEMENT. AND KIND SECOND OF A MOTION A SECOND. UH, ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE. APPROVAL OF [Approval of September 4, 2019, HDRC Meeting Minutes] SEPTEMBER 4TH MEETING. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECT. SECOND MOTION A SECOND FOR APPROVAL OF MINUTES. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. MOTION PASSES. WE ARE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.