[3:00 PM – Call to Order]
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I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? CASTILLO SAVINO.
AND GIBBS HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM.
MAY I HAVE TRANSLATION SERVICES, PLEASE? GOOD AFTERNOON.
THE HISTORIC DESIGN AND REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL.
I AM JAY MAURICE GIBBS CHAIRMAN, AND THE VICE CHAIR IS JEFFREY FEER.
IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY AND THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY.
AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL.
AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE.
IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEETS.
IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP.
IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF OR REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU WILL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED.
CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS.
SPEAKERS FOR, OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES.
EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR TWO MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP.
ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON.
SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY.
ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT.
PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK.
CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS.
NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS.
AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES.
I HAVE A, JUST, I WAS GONNA MAKE ANNOUNCEMENTS, BUT
SO, UH, MAY IS PRESERVATION MONTH, MAY IS PRESERVATION MONTH.
AND SO I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT A FEW THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING TO CELEBRATE.
UM, IF EDWARD CAN PULL UP, UM, ESSAY SPEAK UP.COM.
PRESERVATION MONTH EVENTS ARE THE THIRD ITEM.
IF YOU JUST SCROLL DOWN ON THAT PAGE, I'LL WAIT TILL THAT'S UP ON THE SCREEN.
SO I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT, UH, THREE EVENTS THAT OHP IS DOING.
UM, THE FIRST IS ON MAY 9TH, BECOME A CITIZEN HISTORIAN.
IF YOU EVER WONDER ABOUT HOW TO DO PROPERTY RESEARCH, THE KIND OF RESEARCH THAT WE AS STAFF DO WHEN WE, UH, PROVIDE RECOMMENDATIONS OR ASSESS PROPERTIES FOR LANDMARK, UH, DESIGNATION, UM, JESSICA ANDERSON FROM OUR OFFICE WILL TAKE YOU THROUGH ALL THE STEPS AND ALL THE FREE RESOURCE THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO YOU THROUGH THE LIBRARY TO DO THAT.
UM, AND SO THAT IS A FREE REGISTRATION.
UM, SO YOU CAN ATTEND FROM ANYWHERE VIRTUALLY.
UM, AND IT'S ALWAYS A POPULAR COURSE.
UH, WE'RE NE THIS IS A NEW EVENT FOR THIS FOR US.
WE'VE NEVER DONE THIS ONE BEFORE.
IT'S THE PICNIC IN A MOVIE IN THE EAST SIDE CEMETERIES.
UM, SO THE EAST SIDE CEMETERIES, IF YOU AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH, THOSE ARE HISTORIC CEMETERIES THAT DATE BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY.
UM, AND A LOT OF PROMINENT SAN ANTONIOS ARE BURIED THERE.
UM, AND FOR A FEW YEARS NOW, WE'VE PARTNERED WITH THE PARKS DEPARTMENT ON THE CEMETERY STEWARDS PROGRAM.
AND SO THAT IS TRAINING AND, UM, EDUCATION FOR HOW TO MAINTAIN AND CARE FOR THOSE MONUMENTS IN THOSE CEMETERIES.
AND SO RACHEL ALATA HERE LEADS THAT PROGRAM.
UM, AND THIS WAS HER, I, HER THIS EVENT WAS HER IDEA.
AND SO WE WILL BE HOSTING A FREE, UH, MOVIE IN THE CEMETERIES, JUST IN A DIFFERENT WAY TO SORT OF ACTIVATE THE SITE AND GET PEOPLE MORE FAMILIAR WITH THOSE SPACES.
UM, SO WE'RE GONNA SHOW THE GOONIES, WHICH IS A POPULAR 1980S MOVIE.
UM, BRING YOUR OWN FOOD AND A PICNIC BLANKET OR CHAIRS AND ENJOY.
AND THEN THE BIG ONE IS ON MAY 17TH.
THIS IS OUR, HIS HOME REPAIR FAIR, PREVIOUSLY KNOWN AS THE HISTORIC HOMEOWNER FAIR.
UM, AND THIS IS GONNA BE, UM, ON SATURDAY 17TH
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AT THE OLD, UH, WOOD COURTHOUSE IN HEMISPHERE.UM, AND SO THIS IS GONNA BE VERY HANDS-ON ENGAGING, LOTS OF DEMONSTRATIONS, A CHANCE TO ENGAGE WITH CONTRACTORS AND, UH, PRODUCT SPECIALISTS, UH, THAT ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE AND WORKING IN HISTORIC PROPERTIES.
UM, ANYBODY WITH AN OLD HOUSE IS ENCOURAGED TO ATTEND.
UM, YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN A STORE DISTRICT TO GAIN SOMETHING FROM THIS ONE.
UM, THERE'LL BE FOOD AND THEN IT'S RIGHT NEAR HEMISPHERE.
SO THERE'LL BE LOTS OF THINGS TO DO, UH, WHILE YOU'RE THERE ON YOUR SATURDAY.
SO FEEL FREE TO CHECK THAT OUT.
AND THERE'S MORE EVENTS, UM, POSTED ON THIS PAGE.
THE FULL CALENDAR OF OHP AND OUR PARTNER EVENTS ARE INCLUDED ON THIS ESSAY SPEAKUP PAGE.
UM, AND THEN FROM THERE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD TO APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES FROM A PREVIOUS MEETING ON APRIL 16TH.
COMMISSIONER CERVANTES? YES, THIS, THIS IS A QUESTION FOR STAFF VERY QUICKLY.
UM, DID OHP ISSUE A COA FOR DEMO ON THE ITC OR DID ANYONE FROM THE CITY ISSUE A PERMIT FOR DEMO ON THE ITC? NO, THAT PROPERTY IS OWNED BY THE STATE AND SO STATE PROPERTIES ARE EXEMPT FROM THE DEVELOPMENT CODE.
AND SO OUR NORMAL PROCESS FOR REVIEW OF A DEMOLITION PERMIT AND THEN ALSO LIKE, UH, HOW HISTORIC LANDMARKS ARE EVALUATED IS NOT SUBJECT TO A STATE OWNED PROPERTY.
UH, MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR THE HDRC MEETING OF APRIL 16TH, 2025.
ADDITIONALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THAT MOTION THAT OHP GIVE US A QUICK FIVE MINUTE BRIEFING AT OUR NEXT MEETING ON THE WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY, AND THE HOW OF THE ITC DEMO AND HOW IT GOT THERE.
AND WE CAN JUST DO THAT NEXT TIME, YOU KNOW, FIVE, 10 MINUTES SECOND WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS.
STAFF WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS.
WHAT'S, WHAT'S THAT? NO, JUST A MINUTE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? MAY I HAVE A, UH, ROLL CALL PLEASE? SAVINO? AYE.
[CONSENT AGENDA Items are placed on the consent agenda when staff recommends approval or recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant agrees to. Any member of the public desiring to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and be heard prior to voting on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda and have it placed on the individual consideration agenda. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.]
ALRIGHT, ME AGAIN? SO IF WE LOOK ON THE SCREEN, UH, WE HAVE 12 ITEMS ON TODAY'S CONSENT AGENDA.UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY IN-PERSON SPEAKERS, BUT WE DO HAVE A FEW VOICEMAILS FOR ITEMS THAT WE WILL PLAY AT THIS TIME.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO PULL, UM, GOOD MORNING.
THIS IS MELISSA DENAL, PRESIDENT OF THE LAVACCA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, CALLING IN REFERENCE TO CONSENT.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO TODAY FOR CASE 1 0 3 AT ADDRESS 7 1 0 SOUTH ST.
THE L AND A HAPPILY SUPPORTS THE REQUEST TO PAINT THE RESTAURANT'S NAME ON THE EXISTING MURAL.
WE FIND THE PLAN TASTEFUL AND CONSISTENT WITH OTHER BUSINESS SIGNAGE AND MURAL ART ALONG SOUTH P, SOUTH ST.
MARY STREET, ALSO NOTING THE PAY TO PARK MURAL THAT, UH, IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT.
HI, THIS IS LOUIS FRANCOIS, CHAIRPERSON OF THE DIGNITY HILL NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD REVIEW COMMITTEE CALLING IN ON HDRC CASE NUMBER 1 0 2.
WE AGREE WITH OHP STIPULATIONS, BUT ARE QUESTIONING THE REAR EAST FACING SETBACK FROM THE DRAWINGS PROVIDED.
IT LOOKS TO BE THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO CODE REQUIRES IT TO BE FIVE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
CAN THE APPLICANT PLEASE CONFIRM THAT IT WILL BE FIVE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TO MEET POSTED GUIDELINES? WE ARE ALSO ASKING THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE THE TYPE OF MATERIAL THEY PLAN TO USE FOR THE GARAGE DOOR FOR OHB APPROVAL.
THIS IS VALERIE CORTEZ CALLING ON BEHALF OF DIGNITY HILLS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD REVIEW COMMITTEE REGARDING CASE NUMBER 20 25 0 9 3 FOR BOOKER ALLEY.
WE DO NOT AGREE WITH O P'S APPROVAL.
WE WOULD LIKE TO CALL OUT OTHER ISSUES THAT WERE NOT ADDRESSED.
THESE INCLUDE THE HEIGHT TWO AND A HALF STORIES IS TOO TALL.
IF APPROVED, YOU WILL BE SETTING A PRECEDENT THAT DOES NOT MEET OHP GUIDELINES.
GUIDELINE HEIGHT AND MASSING SHOULD BE FOLLOWED.
AND THE FACT THAT THE HOUSE FACES AN ALLEY SHOULD NOT MATTER.
THE COLOR OF THE METAL ROOF SHOULD NOT BE CHARCOAL, IT SHOULD BE THE TRADITIONAL SILVER.
A 13 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED.
THE STANDARD WIDTH IS 10 FEET AND IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT THE DRIVEWAY WILL BE ACCESSED VIA AN ALLEY.
THE WINDOW AND GARAGE DOOR DESIGNS DO NOT MEET OHP GUIDELINES.
THE WINDOWS SHOULD ALL BE FUNCTIONAL AND BE ONE OVER ONE DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS.
THE DESIGN AND MATERIAL OF THE GARAGE SHOULD DOOR, SHOULD NOT BE ALUMINUM AND GLASS.
WE ARE ALSO QUESTIONING THE DISTANCE OF BOTH STRUCTURES TO THE PROPERTY LINES AND WOULD LIKE CONFIRMATION THAT THEY
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ARE BOTH AT A MINIMUM OF FIVE FEET ON THE EAST, WEST, AND SOUTH SIDES.THIS ARCHITECT HAS PREVIOUSLY LIVED IN DIGNITY HILL.
HE HAS ALSO PRESENTED IN FRONT OF HDRC BEFORE AS WELL.
HE IS AWARE OF WHAT THE OHP GUIDELINES CALL FOR, AND JUST BECAUSE THIS PROPERTY IS ON AN ALLEY DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD BE IGNORED.
HE SAYS THAT THE DESIGN IS APPROPRIATE AND SIZE, MASS AND PROPORTION.
WE DON'T AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT WHEN IT COMES TO THE TWO AND A HALF STORIES.
WE ALSO DO NOT WANT SOMEONE INTERPRETING THEIR VERSION OF A MODERN DESIGN, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T MEET OHP GUIDELINES BECAUSE AGAIN, THIS IS A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
WE WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT IF YOU START ALLOWING EXCEPTIONS BECAUSE THIS HOUSE FACES AN ALLEY, THEN YOU WILL BE SETTING NEW PRECEDENTS THAT OTHER HOMEOWNERS AND BUILDERS WILL TRY TO USE.
HDRC AGENDA ITEM NUMBER SEVEN, CASE 20 25 0 9 2 20 53 WEST GRAMERCY PLACE AND BLOCKS 1800 TO 2000 OF WEST GRAMERCY PLACE.
MY NAME IS ROBIN FOSTER MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW COMMITTEE OFFERING COMMENTS ON BEHALF OF BIANCA MALDONADO, PRESIDENT OF MONTICELLO PARK NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND THE MPNA BOARD OF DIRECTORS PO BOX 1 0 0 3 1 5 7 8 2 0 1.
WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS.
HOWEVER, WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THE INCLUSION OF THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT ANY EXISTING HAND RAILING ON THE SIDEWALK APPROACHES BE PRESERVED AND REINSTALLED.
TWO, IF THE SIDEWALK IMPROVEMENTS IMPACT THE STEPS BETWEEN THE RIGHT OF WAY AND THE HOME, THEN ANY NEW HAND RAILING SHALL BE SIMILAR TO PRIOR COSA PROJECTS IN THE MONTICELLO PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AS AN EXAMPLE, C3 15 CLUB DRIVE, TUBULAR METAL RAILINGS ARE NOT APPROPRIATE.
WHEN THIS NEW SIDEWALK ABUTS EXISTING STEPS IN FRONT OF A HOME, THE STEPS NEED TO BE UNIFORM IN RISER HEIGHT AND MEET CODE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION OF OUR COMMENTS.
COMMISSIONERS, THOSE ARE ALL OF THE VOICEMAILS FOR ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.
UH, FOR MANY OF THOSE CASES, THERE ARE LETTERS IN YOUR PACKETS.
DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY ITEMS? YES, SIR.
I'D LIKE TO PULL ITEM NUMBER NINE.
AND SIR, I'D LIKE TO PULL ITEM NUMBER 12.
ANY OTHER ITEMS I WOULD LIKE TO POLL NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER FOUR PLEASE.
AND THE OTHER ITEMS? IF NOT, MAY I HAVE A MOTION FOR THE BALANCE OF CONSENT AGENDA? I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM CONSENT.
AGENDA ITEMS NUMBER 1 3 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, AND 11 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SAVINO? AYE.
IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 1 25, SUITE FIVE 12 NORTH OLIVE 1127 AND 1119 SOUTH ST.
MARY'S 5 0 3 EAST GUNTHER, THE 1900 AND 2000 BLOCKS OF WEST GRAMERCY 26 0 2 NORTH FLORES, 3 31 CHANNING AND 1 22 LEOPOLD, YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF.
YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED IN EMAIL TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS.
ITEM NUMBER TWO IS SEVEN 10 SOUTH ST.
MARY'S THE APPLICANT, UH, MR. BRANDON SWINDLE, UH, IS HERE IN PERSON.
CAN YOU STEP UP PLEASE? PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, SIR.
UH, MY NAME'S BRANDON SWINDLE.
I'M THE DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS OVER AT MAVERICK, TEXAS.
MR. SWINDLE, UM, I PULLED THIS PRIMARILY BECAUSE, UM, I HAVE NO OBJECTION WITH THE THIRD SIGN ON THE BUILDING.
I DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT ITS SIZE AND HOW IT, UM, HOW IT ACTUALLY FITS IN THAT SETTING AS WELL AS THE, UM, GUIDELINES AND HOW WE'VE BEEN ADDRESSING OTHER SIMILAR REQUESTS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND THROUGHOUT OTHER HISTORIC DISTRICTS.
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UM, I GUESS I COULD ASK YOU, IS IT POSSIBLE, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, DO YOU KNOW THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE EXISTING SIGNS OF THE EXISTING SIGNS? WE HAVE ONE IN THE BACK THAT HAS THAT SAME MAVERICK BLOCK LOGO.SO THOSE ARE ALL, UM, I WANNA SAY LIKE FIVE BY 15, LIKE RIGHT AROUND THERE.
AND THEN WE USED TO HAVE ANOTHER SIGN THAT WAS PRE-APPROVED AND WE OPENED THE RESTAURANT, UH, WHICH WAS NOW BLOCKED OFF.
SO THAT WAS REALLY THE OTHER KIND OF YES.
SIDE REASON WHY WE WANTED TO HAVE JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE VISIBILITY.
AND THEN THAT OTHER BUILDING WAS TORN DOWN, SO IT KIND OF OPENED UP THAT ENTIRE WALL FOR US.
SOLY DID WE, WE DID HAVE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT RENDERINGS OF SIZE AND SCALE, SO IF IT IS AN ISSUE OF SIZE, WE CAN CERTAINLY SCALE DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
UM, 'CAUSE DIRECTLY NEXT TO THAT M IS ACTUALLY WHERE THERE'S THE, THAT BRAND NEW PAY TO PARK LOGO THAT YOU CAN NOW SEE ON THAT, ON THAT RENDERING THERE, SO RIGHT.
YEAH, WE WERE JUST GOING BACK AND FORTH ON WHAT WOULD LOOK GREAT AND APPROPRIATE AND NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT TOO BIG EITHER.
I, I THINK IF YOU WERE TO MATCH THE SIZE OF THE EXISTING FACES, UH, UH, EXISTING SIGNS.
AND THEN THE LOCATION, UM, I THINK WOULD BE UP TO YOU, UP TO YOU TOO.
MAYBE LIKE WE WERE THINKING TOO, GOING, KIND OF GOING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN JUST THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BULLS HORNS WHERE YOU HAVE THAT NICE CLEAN, JUST LITTLE BLOCK OF THAT RIGHT THERE AND, AND WE CAN SCALE IT DOWN.
I, I, AND I WAS KIND OF GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH IT GOING IN FRONT OF THE WALL ANYWAY, JUST FOR AESTHETIC.
I THINK YOU'LL STILL GET THE VISIBILITY, THE ATTRACTION, UM, FROM THE WESTBOUND TRAFFIC ON CHAVEZ.
THAT'S WHEN YOU SEE IT, BUT YOU ALSO SEE THE BACKSIDE OF YOUR BUILDING, SO YOU SEE MAVERICK ALREADY.
UM, BUT, UM, I, IF YOU'RE, UM, IF YOU'RE AMENABLE TO MATCHING THE SCALE AND THE SIZE, I HAVE A QUESTION BEFORE WE MOVE INTO MOTION.
WERE YOU GONNA LEAVE THE BULL OR WERE YOU GONNA PAINT IT OVER THAT? WE'RE GONNA LEAVE IT AND WE'RE GONNA JUST TIGHTEN IT UP AND CLEAN IT UP.
SO IT IS STAYING, IT IS STAYING THE BULL HAD, YEAH, WE, WE DEFINITELY GONNA LEAVE THE BULL.
UM, AND WE COULD CERTAINLY DO THE SIGN MUCH LIKE TIGHTER AND SMALLER NEXT TO IT.
AND THEN JUST CLEAN IT UP, YOU KNOW, KIND OF DARKEN OUT THE, THE SHADING OF THE BULL A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE YOU CAN KIND OF ACTUALLY SEE THE KINDA LITTLE AND WHAT WAS THE SIZE OF THE SIGN THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAD THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO REPLACE? THE ONE WHERE THAT WAS WHEN THE BUILDING CORD ON, UM, IT'S SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY ON PREA STREET.
UM, SO IT'S ABOUT HALF THE SIZE OF THAT REALLY.
I MEAN, IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, LOOKING BUT THE ONE THAT DISAPPEARED WHEN THE BUILDING GOT CORRECT.
IT'S, IT'S ABOUT THE EXACT SAME SIZE AS THE ONE ON, ON THE PREA WALL.
WHICH IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, IT'S IT'S PRETTY LARGE, BUT IT'S NOT, IT'S ABOUT HALF THAT IT SCALE.
QUESTION UNLESS THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS.
I'D LIKE TO MOTION, UM, TO ACCEPT THE, UH, APPROVE THE REQUEST WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE NEW LOGOS, THE NEW TEXT SIGNAGE, UM, NOT EXCEED THE HEIGHT AND THE WIDTH OR THE PROPORTION OF THOSE FOUND ON THE, UH, SOUTH PRESA AND THE ST.
SECOND, SPEND MORE THAN PROPERLY, PROPERLY SECOND.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? SO I'M JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND.
UM, I, I ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE NO INCONVENIENCE OF WHAT WAS PRESENTED TODAY.
THAT'S WHY YOU'RE ASKING THE APPLICANT.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? YES, IT WOULD BE THAT, THAT THAT'S THE SOUTH PRE SCALE THAT, THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TALKING, THAT WAS YOUR TIME MA.
THAT WOULD END LIKE RIGHT BY THE POOL.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SAVINO? AYE.
AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS 5 0 8 AND FIVE 10 BOOKER ALLEY.
UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, FELIX ZIGA IS HERE IN PERSON AS IS ARE THE PROPERTY OWNER.
PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, SIR.
I'M THE ARCHITECT ON THE PROJECT.
THANK YOU MR. ZIGA FOR STICKING ROUND.
UM, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
UM, I HAD SOME CONCERNS FROM OUR, UM, DRC OR PRE-SUBMIT EARLIER, AND, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS ADDITIONAL THINGS.
I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR, UM, UM, AMENABILITY TO ADJUST SOME THINGS.
UM, I'M LOOKING AT MY FILE HERE ON THE MONITOR AND I DON'T HAVE A SITE PLAN, SO COULD YOU BRING UP A SITE PLAN PLEASE? THERE WE GO.
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UM, COULD YOU ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT, UH, ESPECIALLY ABOUT WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION HAD REGARDING YOUR SETBACKS? EXPLAIN WHAT SURE.SO THE QUESTION WAS IF WE HAD, UM, MINIMUM FIVE FOOT SETBACKS ON THE EAST, WEST, AND SOUTH SIDES, AND WE DO, WHICH IS WHAT, FIVE FEET? YEAH.
FOR THE SIDES WE HAVE FIVE FEET AT, AT A MINIMUM ON THE SITE SETBACKS.
UM, THEY HAD COMMENTED ON THE GARAGE DOORS, THE GLASS GARAGE DOORS, UH, STAFF.
WAS THERE STIPULATIONS FOR THAT? I DON'T, I'LL HAVE TO LOOK.
UH, GENERALLY STAFF FOUND THE GARAGE DOORS THAT WERE PROPOSED TO BE APPROPRIATE.
UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ARE TYPICALLY THE GARAGE DOORS FEATURE WOOD OR METAL CONSTRUCTION.
UH, WE PRIMARILY WANNA STAY AWAY FROM UH, VINYL PANEL, GARAGE DOORS, BUT THIS HAS GLASS, THEY MATCH THE WINDOWS FOR THE HOUSE.
WE, WE DO HAVE SOME RESPONSES, UM, SPECIFICALLY LIKE FOR THE TWO AND A HALF STORIES BEING TOO TALL, UM, AND SETTING A PRECEDENT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HEAR THE CONCERN, BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE GUIDELINES AND THE GUIDELINES STATE THAT THE OVERALL HI OVERALL HEIGHT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE HEIGHT OF ADJACENT NEARBY HISTORIC BUILDINGS BY MORE THAN 50%.
AND THAT'S WHEN IT'S MEASURED FROM SIMILAR ELEVATION POINTS SUCH AS THE GROUND PLANE, HIGH HIGHEST RIDGE LINE, REGARDLESS OF THE ROOF PICTURE FORM.
UM, ANOTHER THING THAT WE HAVE KIND OF HIGHLIGHTED FROM THE, FROM THIS SECTION OF THE CODE, IT SAYS INCORPORATING ADDITIONAL HEIGHT INTO HALF STORIES OR WITHIN TRADITIONAL ROOF FORMS IS STRONGLY ENCOURAGED.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE DONE, UM, BY HAVING A PARTIAL HALF STORY WITH DORMERS IN, IN THE ATTIC
UM, THE ONLY ADJACENT HISTORIC HOUSE IS THE ONE AT THE CORNER OF NORTH CHERRY.
THE A DU TO THE EAST IS NOT HISTORIC.
THE PROPOSED DESIGN IS NOT TALLER THAN 50% OF THE HEIGHT OF THE HISTORIC TWO STORY HOUSE AS SHOWN ON THE STREET SECTION.
THE NEW HOUSE WILL NOT BE TALLER THAN THE HISTORIC HOUSE.
USING HALF STORY TO INCORPORATE ADDITIONAL HEIGHT IS ENCOURAGED BY THE GUIDELINES.
SO, UM, REGARDING THE METAL ROOF COLOR, UM, ALTHOUGH WE UNDERSTAND THE GAL FINISH IS MORE COMMON, THERE ARE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF NEW INSTALLATIONS OF CHARCOAL, UH, COLORED STANDING SEAM IN THE DISTRICT THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION IN THE PAST.
UM, REGARDING THE DRIVEWAY WIDTH, UM, I'M NOT SURE.
IT MAY BE THEY WERE LOOKING AT AN OLDER DRAWING, BUT OUR DRIVEWAY WIDTH IS 10 FEET.
BUT IT, BUT WHERE IT INTERSECTS THE ALLEY IS 10 FEET.
YOU HAD ADDITIONAL FROM THAT LETTER REGARDING THE WINDOWS AND THE GARAGE DOOR DESIGNS, UH, NOT MEETING OHP GUIDELINES.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE GUIDELINES.
ACCORDING TO THE WINDOW POLICY GUIDE, WINDOWS USED IN NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE SIMILAR IN APPEARANCE TO THOSE COMMONLY FOUND WITHIN THE DISTRICT.
IN TERMS OF SIZE, PROFILE AND CONFIGURATION, ALL PROPOSED WINDOWS ARE OPERABLE EXCEPT FOR THE ONES IN THE BATHROOMS REGARDING SQUARE FIX WINDOWS, THIS WINDOW TYPE WAS COMMONLY USED IN CRAFTSMEN STYLE HOMES FLANKING A FIREPLACE OR ABOVE BUILT-INS WHERE THERE WAS A FIXED ELEMENT BENEATH THAT DIDN'T ALLOW FOR LARGE RECTANGULAR WINDOWS.
IN ADDITION, THERE ARE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF HISTORIC HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH DIVIDED LIGHTS.
A ONE OVER ONE DESIGN IS NOT THE ONLY WINDOW CONFIGURATION FOUND IN THE DISTRICT.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE HAD FROM THE LAST, FROM THE DRC.
AND YOU'RE GOOD WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS FOR THAT? WE, WE AGREED WITH ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS.
WE WERE AMENABLE TO EVERYTHING THAT THEY RECOMMENDED.
AND WE'RE MAKING TWEAKS AND ADJUSTMENTS TO SATISFY, UH, ALL OF THE REQUESTS.
UM, REGARDING, YOU KNOW, ME HAVING LIVED IN THE DISTRICT AND THAT I SHOULD KNOW BETTER, UM, THE HISTORIC DEVELOPMENT OF AN ALLEY PROVIDES A VERY DIFFERENT PATTERN THAN THE HISTORIC DEVELOPMENT OF A MAIN STREET ALLEY SERVED AS BACK OF HOUSE ACCESS AND TYPICALLY NARROW UNPAVED WITH NO SIDEWALKS.
ALLEYS WERE NOT DESIGNED TO ENHANCE THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE, BUT RATHER TO BE STRICTLY UTILITARIAN.
HISTORICALLY, STRUCTURES THAT FACED AN ALLEY WERE SIMPLE AND UTILITARIAN IN NATURE, AND DID NOT HAVE AN, THE ELABORATE DETAILS OR GRAND ENTRANCES THAT HOUSES FACING A MAIN STREET HAD.
THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IS IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS WILL BE THE ONLY MAIN HOUSE FACING BOOKER ALLEY.
THE GUIDELINES ARE NOT BEING IGNORED, BUT THE DESIGN SHOULD BE SPECIFIC TO ITS CONTEXT.
REGARDING THE ME SAYING THAT THE DESIGN IS APPROPRIATE IN SIZE AND MASS, AND AGAIN, THEY DON'T AGREE WITH THE TWO AND A HALF STORIES.
THERE'S NOTHING IN THE GUIDELINES THAT PROHIBITS MODERN ARCHITECTURE.
THE GUIDELINES FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION, THREE A, 2, 4, 8, 3 ENCOURAGE ALTERNATIVE USE OF TRADITIONAL MATERIALS AND CONTEMPORARY INTERPRETATIONS OF TRADITIONAL DESIGNS AND DETAILS.
I WANT TO, I DO WANNA ADDRESS ONE AREA THAT I THINK WOULD BE MOST VISIBLE,
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AND THAT IS THE ROOF COLOR.UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE APPROVED, IN SOME CASES, SOME DARKER COLORS MM-HMM
UM, BUT TO THE GUIDELINES, UM, WE WANT TO USE SIMILAR MATERIALS IN TERMS OF FORM, COLOR AND TEXTURE.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE AERIAL OF THAT SPECIFIC AREA, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT WE'RE USING VERY LIGHT COLORED GROUPS, GALVANIZED WHITES AND VARIOUS LIGHT COLORS.
WE'RE NOT ALL FLYING AROUND IN A DRONE, BUT FROM UP THE STREET AND OVER THE HILL YOU CAN SEE THE ROOFTOPS AND THAT'S WHEN YOU WOULD SEE THIS.
UM, WOULD YOU BE AMENABLE TO, UM, TONING DOWN THAT BLACK TO PERHAPS A, UH, WEATHER GAL LOOM OR NOTHING SHINY LIKE THE BRIGHT GAL LOOM, BUT SOMETHING THAT HAS, UM, A LIGHTER SHAPE? UM, I KNOW OUR, OUR CLIENT HAS MADE MANY, MANY CONCESSIONS THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS.
AS YOU ALL KNOW, HE CAME IN WITH A TOTALLY DIFFERENT DESIGN.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU PULL UP THE ORIGINAL DESIGN? SO THAT'S, NO, THAT'S, NO.
WHAT ABOUT THE ONE ON NORTH PINE THAT YOU USE? AN EXAMPLE, WHAT ABOUT THAT ROOF COLOR? IF YOU CAN PULL SLIDE PAGE 26.
WHAT ABOUT THAT? BUT WE'VE GOT IN CHARCOAL APPROVED IN THE DISTRICT BEFORE WE GOT IT APPROVED AT SEVEN 14 SHERMAN.
WELL, THAT'S KIND OF A CHARCOAL RIGHT.
THIS IS THAT, UH, WEATHER GAL LOO LOOK.
AND IT GIVES A VERY CONTEMPORARY LOOK.
UH, IT CAN LOOK REALLY, REALLY SHARP AND IT REALLY AVOIDS THAT FLASHY BRIGHT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE NEW GAL LOOM FOR.
SO WE HAVE CHARCOAL AT OUR OFFICE BUILDING AND IT'S VERY MATTE FINISH.
UM, AND I KNOW THE, THE, OUR CLIENT, HE WANTS THE CONTRAST BETWEEN LIKE THE WHITE STUCCO AND THE ROOF AND THE WINDOWS WILL POP MORE IF THE MORE SIMILAR THE WINDOWS IN THE ROOF MATCH.
BUT AGAIN, NOW WE'RE TALKING AESTHETICS AND I THINK THAT'S OUTSIDE THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION.
WELL, I WAS JUST THINKING, TRYING TO FIND EXAMPLES, WHAT'S EXISTING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I, I SEVEN 14 SHERMAN, WE DID CHARCOAL ROOF THERE.
DO YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF THAT OR YOU WANNA PULL IT UP? I CAN PULL IT UP.
WELL THEN THIS, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S ON GOOGLE STREET VIEW YET.
I THINK IN THE SETTING OF CHERRY BOOKER AND DAWSON MM-HMM
THAT COLLECTION ALL IS VERY, VERY LIGHT COLOR.
UM, AND I THINK THE SETTING IS IMPORTANT.
THE CONTEXT, A SPECIFIC CONTEXT FOR THIS SPECIFIC HEIGHT HOUSE, IF IT HAD A, YOU KNOW, UM, A ROOF COLOR THAT WAS MORE BEFITTING, IT'S NOT NEARLY, IT'S NOT AS MUCH AN AESTHETIC CONCERN, BUT RATHER ONE OF CHARACTER AND FITTING INTO THIS PARTICULAR SITE.
YEAH, I KNOW THE, THE 1 3 14 SHERMAN, I KNOW THE ONE AT THREE 14 SHERMAN, UM, THAT WE GOT APPROVED, WE WERE LIKE ON THE FRINGE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH IS VERY, A VERY, VERY SIMILAR CONDITION TO THIS.
WE'RE IN AN ALLEY, WE'RE AT THE EDGE OF THE DISTRICT, UM, ON CHERRY.
AND I THINK ON THIS ONE WE GOT AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S, IT WAS A GABLE.
WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE HOUSE FROM THE FRONT, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THE ROOF COLOR.
AND THAT'S AGAIN, A VERY SIMILAR CONDITION TO WHAT WE'RE PRESENTING TODAY.
IS THERE A COLOR OF THE ROOF? IS THERE MORE SLIDES TO THAT MR. CHAIR? OH YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S OTHER PHOTOS.
SO LIKE WE, WE ACTUALLY TOOK IT DOWN AS ON PART OF THE COLUMNS RIGHT THERE.
UM, AND THEN THERE'S THE, AGAIN, YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THE ROOF, RIGHT 'CAUSE IT'S A GABLE.
UM, BUT IF YOU, THERE'S A COUPLE PICTURES WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT FROM THE SIDE.
I THINK COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ Y YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIR.
IT, IT'S, IT'S A RE REALLY GOOD, UM, I THINK PROGRESS BETWEEN THE HDRC AND THE APPLICANTS.
I KNOW THAT THEY CAME AND THEY, IF WE LOOK AT THE ORIGINAL, IT'S REALLY A, UH, A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT HOUSE.
UH, APPLICANT'S AMENABLE TO THE, UH, UH, COMMENTS OF STAFF.
IT SEEMS THAT THE COMMISSION HAS ONE, ONE, UM, UM, UH, DETAIL THAT, THAT, THAT WE CAN WORK OUT HERE.
THE PICTURE THAT WAS UP ON THE SCREEN OF THE PINE HOUSE, I THINK THAT WHAT LED THAT IT HAD AN EXISTING STRUCTURE ALREADY.
SO THERE WASN'T SO MUCH ABOUT THE APPROPRIATENESS OF JUST THE, THE, UH, THE, THE, UH, THE ZINC, UH, PATINA, BUT THAT, THAT NEW EDITION WAS WORKING WITH THAT EXISTING STRUCTURE.
AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE, UH, THE WAY THAT IT WORKS WITH THE WINDOWS, THAT CLEARLY,
[00:30:01]
WITH THE APPLICANT BEING ABLE TO REACH A POINT WHERE THIS IS A, AN APPROVABLE STRUCTURE, THAT THEY'RE GONNA GET TO THEIR HOUSE EVERY DAY AND THEY'RE GONNA LOOK AT THAT ROOF AND IT'S NOT GONNA BE THEIR ROOF FOR THIS, FOR THIS LEVEL OF AGREEMENT.IT, IT, IT SEEMS THAT, THAT THERE, THERE SHOULD BE SITUATIONS WHERE, UH, THE HDRC, UM, DEFERS ITS, UM, OPINION TO THE OPINION OF THE PEOPLE THAT WILL ACTUALLY OWN THE HOUSE AND PAY THE TAXES ON THE HOUSE AND BE A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTING, UH, ELEMENT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, SO I I I, I'D LIKE TO SUPPORT A MOTION THAT THAT WOULD APPROVE IT AS SUBMITTED.
PARTICULARLY THAT IT CAN GO WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT ALSO THAT, THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT THE DESIGNER IS EVEN LOOKING BACK AND DEFERRING TO THE OWNERS.
BECAUSE AT THIS POINT IT USED TO BE PULLED AT THE HEARTSTRINGS OF THE OWNERS.
NOW I REMEMBER THE SANDRA CISNEROS HOUSE AND WAS, WE ARGUED ABOUT THE COLOR OF HER HOUSE FOR HOW MANY YEARS.
AND CLEARLY AT SOME POINT, THE HDRC, THE OHP DECIDED THAT COLOR WAS NOT NECESSARILY GONNA BE OUR PURVIEW.
COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, LEMME STOP YOU FOR A MOMENT.
SO IF YOU, UM, IF THERE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, THEN WE, WELL, I, I COULD MAKE A MOTION, BUT I COULD ALSO DEFER TO SOMEONE ELSE TO MAKE A MOTION THERE.
OTHER QUESTIONS? I HAVE NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
UM, I DID WANT TO KIND OF SUMMARIZE WITH SOMETHING I KNOW ONE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT PRECEDENT AND IT'S FUNNY 'CAUSE THE MOST COMMON PHRASE WE'VE HEARD OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS AT THE HDRC, UM, IS THE HDRC DOES NOT SET PRECEDENTS.
'CAUSE EVERY CASE, EVERY SITE AND EVERY PROJECT IS UNIQUE.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD BE OF CONCERN.
I'D LIKE TO MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS.
SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY.
MR. CHAIR, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND, AND THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT MR. ZIGA.
I THINK EVERY PROPERTY IS DIFFERENT.
UM, AND THAT'S WHY I WAS LOOKING FOR EXAMPLES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO WHEN WE DID DISCUSS THE SHERMAN, I THANK YOU FOR REMINDING US OF THAT ONE.
THERE WAS, UM, ANOTHER CASE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO THAT WE, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T ACCEPT THE COLOR BECAUSE IT WAS WHAT'S AROUND THERE AND WHAT'S THE STREET AND WHERE'S THE PROPERTY LOCATED.
SO I'M JUST GONNA ASK YOU, I'M NOT GONNA ADD AS A STIPULATION IS IF THERE'S A WAY FOR THE APPLICANT TO CONSIDER FINDING WHAT'S IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND MAYBE GOING WITH SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE IN THAT CLOSE VICINITY.
AND IF NOT, JUST DON'T USE IT AGAINST US IN THE FUTURE.
PROPERTY INSIDE, MORE INSIDE, OH, LIKE WE JUST DID, RIGHT? UM, YEAH,
WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE CLIENT AND IF HE'S AMENABLE WE WILL DO IT.
BUT DEFINITELY WE'D PREFER IT NOT TO BE, UM, INTO, IN THE RECORD OR AS A STIPULATION.
YEAH, JUST LOOKING AT, UH, PAGE NINE OF THE PACKET.
I DUNNO IF YOU CAN PULL THAT UP.
SO WHEN YOU'RE WALKING DOWN CHERRY STREET, THAT SQUARE WHERE YOUR HOUSE IS GONNA BE IS TWO AND A HALF STORIES HIGH, CORRECT? YES, SIR.
I DON'T THINK IT'S UNREASONABLE TO TRY AND GET CLOSE TO THE COLOR OF THE OTHER ROOF BECAUSE YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE THAT FROM CHERRY STREET.
UM, FOR ME THAT'S, I'M GONNA VOTE NO BECAUSE OF THAT.
OTHERWISE EVERYTHING IS OKAY, BUT I THINK BECAUSE OF THE HEIGHT, TWO AND A HALF YEARS, I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE WELL OVER THE OTHER ONES.
AND YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE IT FROM, AND THAT'S GONNA POP THAT WHOLE, THAT HOUSE IS GONNA POP IN FROM ALL THE OTHER HOUSES BECAUSE OF THE UH, UH, OF THE TYPE OF ROOF IT'S GONNA HAVE.
SO I THINK YOUR PROJECT IS GREAT.
I THINK IT'S, YOU MOVED A LONG WAY.
IF IT WERE SHORTER, PROBABLY I, IF YOU COULDN'T SEE IT FROM CHERRY STREET, I PROBABLY WOULDN'T CARE SO MUCH, BUT BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE IT FROM CHERRY STREET, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, FOR ME, EVERYBODY ELSE HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION, BUT FOR ME IT'S, HOW IS IT GONNA LOOK FROM CHERRY STREET? YEAH.
I MEAN THERE ARE DARK ROOFS ADJACENT TO US.
THEY'RE JUST DIFFERENT MATERIAL.
SO I MEAN, IF YOU'RE TALKING COLOR, IT'S THE SAME COLOR.
I'M TALKING MAKING IT BLEND IN.
ARE YOU GUYS FAMILIAR WITH THAT COURT CASE THAT'S GOING ON IN SAN MARCOS? NO, YOU SHOULD.
UM, THERE, YOU ALSO, YOU SAID HIGHLY VISIBLE, RIGHT? THERE'S A VACANT LOT RIGHT THERE THAT ONCE THAT GETS BUILT, THE HOUSE IS GONNA BE ON AN ALLEY.
SO YOU, DO YOU PLAN FOR IT LIKE WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW OR FUTURE OR KIND OF SOMETHING IN BETWEEN? RIGHT, RIGHT NOW I THINK OUR BIGGEST THING IS THIS IS NEW CONSTRUCTION, SO I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD TREAT IT AS A HISTORIC PROPERTY OR AS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
IT'S A HISTORIC LOT, BUT IT'S STILL JUST A VACANT LOT.
[00:35:01]
HISTORIC DISTRICT.SO, SO AND SO THAT'S THE WHOLE THING.
AND SO YOU, UM, YOU SPENT TIME QUOTING TO US WHAT THE GUIDELINES STATE.
BUT YOU ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT AND WE COMPLY A HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE GUIDELINES.
WE ALLOWED YOU TO SPEAK, SO NOW YOU NEED TO HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY AS WELL.
SO THE THING IS THAT WE'RE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO THE THING IS THE GUIDELINES ARE JUST THAT THE GUIDELINES.
SO THE INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE RECEIVING, YOU KNOW, FROM THIS COMMISSION HERE IS, IS HELPING TO HOPEFULLY HELP YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR AND WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS LOOKING TO TRY TO GET APPROVED, GOING BACK AND FORTH.
TIT FOR TA WELL, YOU SHOULD DO THIS.
WE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S IN OUR PURVIEW, BUT WE ARE UNDERSTAND, WE'RE TRYING TO GET AN UNDERSTANDING FROM YOU SO WE BE CLEAR ON HOW WE SHOULD AS INDIVIDUALS AND AS A WHOLE, AS A COMMISSION VOTE, UM, FOR THIS PROJECT.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SAVINO NAY VELAZQUEZ AYE.
ITEM NUMBER NINE IS THREE 19 MISSION STREET.
THE APPLICANT NATE MANFRED IS HERE IN PERSON.
UH, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS.
I'M NATHAN MANFORD WITH FRENCH MICHIGAN HERE TO DISCUSS, UH, THREE 19 MISSION.
THANK YOU COMMISSIONER FETZER? YES.
UH, SPECIFICALLY EDWARD, IF YOU COULD PUT UP DRAWING 15 THE BUILDING ELEVATIONS THAT GIVES THE, UH, RELATIVE HEIGHTS OF THE STRUCTURE, MAYBE ZOOM INTO THE RIGHT, THAT FRONT ELEVATION.
UM, I THINK THAT THE TWO STORY A DU, UH, FITS INTO THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORHOOD.
YOU HAVE SOME OTHER TWO STORY ADUS UP AND DOWN THE ALLEY.
UH, WHAT MY CONCERNS ARE ARE THE CEILING HEIGHTS.
UM, AN A DU IS SUPPOSED TO BE A, UH, MORE, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, DIMINUTIVE STRUCTURE THAN THE MAIN HOUSE.
AND A NINE FOOT SECOND FLOOR SEEMS EXCESSIVE FOR AN A DU, UH, 10 FOOT ON THE FIRST FLOOR ACTUALLY SEEMS EXCESSIVE.
SO I WAS WONDERING IF YOU, YOU WOULD ACCEPT DROPPING THAT TO A, UM, A NINE FOOT ON THE FIRST FLOOR AND A EIGHT FOOT ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
UM, I CAN SPEAK TO MY CLIENTS ABOUT THAT, BUT I HAVE A FEELING THEY'RE NOT GONNA AGREE TO THAT.
UM, ONE IS THEY BOTH WORK FOR THE SPURS.
THEY'RE BOTH FORMER ATHLETES AND SO THEY'RE BOTH, OR ONE OF THE TWO IS A FAIRLY TALL INDIVIDUAL.
SO WHEN WE DESIGNED THIS, WE DID DISCUSS PLATE HEIGHTS AND THEIR PREFERENCE WAS TO HAVE SOMETHING A LITTLE TALLER.
THE OTHER PART OF THAT IS IN THE GARAGE THEY'D LIKE TO HAVE SINCERE ATHLETIC PEOPLE.
THEY HAVE ATHLETIC EQUIPMENT, THEY'D LIKE TO STORE SOME OF THAT ATHLETIC EQUIPMENT ABOVE THEIR VEHICLES IN THE GARAGE.
UM, I ALSO WOULD SAY THAT IT'S ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AS SOME OF THE OTHER STRUCTURES IN THE ALLEY.
YOU SUBMITTED SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND, UH, UM, IF YOU, UH, RELATED TO THE PHOTOS OF THE OTHER STRUCTURES IN THE FAMILY, RIGHT? UH, YOU SUBMITTED FOUR OF THEM.
ONE OF THEM, THEY'RE ALL SLIGHTLY SHORTER THAN THAN THE ONE YOU'RE PROPOSING.
UH, IN FACT, THE ONE OF THEM THAT YOU SHOWED WAS DOWN TO 22 FEET, UH, 24 FEET, 25 FEET.
AND THEN SO THEY'RE ALL, YOU KNOW, THREE OR FOUR FEET SHORTER THAN YOUR STRUCTURE.
I BELIEVE THIS GRAY ONE IS PRETTY CLOSE.
UM, UM, AND I'LL ALSO SAY I DID PRESENT THAT ELEVATION STUDY KIND OF SHOWING THE RELATIVE HEIGHTS.
UH, SO THIS STRUCTURE IS SUBSERVIENT IN TERMS OF HEIGHT.
I KNOW IT'S CLOSE JUST A FEW INCHES, BUT IT'S A FEW INCHES SMALLER.
AND, UM,
WELL, ON THE SECOND FLOOR, AS ANOTHER SUGGESTION, COULD YOU DROP THE PLATE HEIGHT AROUND THE PERIMETER AND THEN VAULT THE CEILING INSIDE TO GET YOUR CEILING HEIGHT? WE CAN CONSIDER THAT.
[00:40:01]
THE ROOF OVERHANGS, WE WANTED TO KIND OF COVER THAT, UH, PORCH AREA WHERE THE STAIRS COME UP.THE OWNERS WANTED TO HAVE THAT ALL COVERED.
SO WE HAVE A PRETTY LOW OVERHANG WHERE IT COMES DOWN.
WE'RE CLOSE TO THE SEVEN FEET HEIGHT TO HAVE CLEAR AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CLIENTS IS FAIRLY TALL.
I DID REVIEW, I'M SORRY, I DID REVIEW REALLY QUICKLY.
I DID REVIEW THESE DRAWINGS WITH KING WILLIAM ON MONDAY EVENING.
UH, DISCUSSED IT IN DETAIL WITH EVERYONE.
MADE SURE THAT THEY HAD THAT DRAWING TO DISCUSS ANY HEIGHT ISSUES.
THEY CAME BACK WITHOUT ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THAT MR. CONRAD OR ANY OF THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE KING WILLIAM A A C.
WELL, I GUESS BACK TO IT IS AN A DU.
SO, AND I THINK WE'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, SPECIAL CASES BEFORE.
SO FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, FROM THE STREET LEVEL, DO WE HAVE THAT STANDING AT THE STREET? WHAT PART WOULD BE VISIBLE? THE A DU FROM THE STREET? NOTHING WOULD BE VISIBLE.
EVEN AT THAT HEIGHT? YEAH, IT, I MEAN IT'S LOWER THAN THE MAIN PRIMARY HOUSE.
PRIMARY HOUSE LOOKS LIKE A ONE STORY STRUCTURE.
IT IS A BUILT OUT SECOND FLOOR ATTIC, BUT IT IS STILL GONNA BE SUBSERVIENT OVERALL IF YOU'RE STANDING AT THE STREET ON MISSION LOOKING BACK.
AND THEN THE PROPERTIES WITH THE, UH, TWO STORY AD USE EXAMPLES THAT YOU HAVE, THEY'RE LITERALLY IN THE ALLEY OF THIS PROPERTY, LIKE CLOSE BY, RIGHT? CORRECT.
IT'S, THE ALLEY'S VERY SHORT ON THAT BLOCK.
IT'S A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE FEW ALLEYS THERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD GOES STREET TO STREET DOESN'T GO EXTEND PAST AND MOST OF ED ADUS ON IN THAT ALLEY, LIKE WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT THAT ALLEY ARE ALL TWO STORY.
AND YES, I, I WOULD SAY THAT'S TRUE.
I MEAN, BECAUSE WE'RE THEN TALKING ABOUT BEING BETWEEN 24 AND 28.
I THINK IT'S KIND OF AN EXAGGERATION OF DISCUSSION, BUT, UM, SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, LIKE IT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO THIS ALLEY.
I MEAN, ONE IS A MEDIUM HEIGHT.
IT'S A LITTLE TALLER THAN THE MEDIUM HEIGHT.
AND THEN THERE'S THE TALL DARK ONE ON THE GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION.
AND THEN ONE NEXT TO OUR PROPERTY THAT'S, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A LITTLE TALLER THAN THIS ONE.
I CAN'T REMEMBER THE HEIGHTS EXACTLY, BUT IT'S ALSO A SMALLER SCALE.
BUT THE CLIENTS DID GO VISIT THE INDIVIDUAL WITH THE GRAY ONE, THE DARK GRAY ONE.
THAT'S THE TALLER ONE AND THE ALLEY TO GO INSIDE, GET A FEEL FOR THAT THE OWNER LET THEM COME THROUGH.
AND SO THEY, THEY BASICALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR.
AND AGAIN, ONE OF THE CLIENTS IS A TALL INDIVIDUAL.
OTHER QUESTIONS? I SURE, YES, SIR.
UH, HOW ARE YOU, UH, ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE WOOD WINDOWS OR THE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW OR THE, THE OPTIONS HERE? THE STANDING SEAM AND THE PANEL SIZES AND THE, THE, THE CLIENTS AGREE WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS AND WE HAVE THOSE FOR THE MOST PART NOTED IN THE DRAWINGS.
WELL, MR. CHAIR, THE, IF IF THERE AREN'T ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, I MAKE A MOTION.
SEEMS LIKE A SIMPLE ENOUGH MOTION.
SO I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS.
I'LL SECOND IT BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY.
SECOND FURTHER DISCUSSION, MR. CHAIR, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS A COUPLE OF ITEMS ON THIS.
UM, WE'RE GETTING MORE ADUS RIGHT? AS, EXCUSE ME.
THE, UM, CITY CODES HAVE CHANGED A LITTLE BIT AND THEY'RE POPULAR, THEY'RE USEFUL, INFINITELY USEFUL.
UM, BUT THIS, AND EACH ONE, EACH TYPE OF A DU WILL FIT ITS PARTICULAR SITE AND ITS NEIGHBORHOOD IN TERMS OF THE STYLE OF THE, THE, UM, PRIMARY HOUSE ARCHITECTURE MM-HMM
SO THE, THE ASPECT THAT CONCERNS ME ABOUT THIS ONE IS THAT IT AS WELL AS ALL THE OTHERS, THEY COM THEY CONFORM TO THE GUIDELINES IN THE LITERAL LETTER SENSE, BUT THEY KIND OF PUSH THE ENVELOPE A LITTLE BIT.
SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT TALL, THE FOOTPRINT IS A LITTLE BIT BIG, THE ROOF IS A LITTLE BIT BROAD ALL COMPARED TO THE VICTORIAN HOUSE IN THE FRONT.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT CREATES THE, UM, THE SENSE THAT IT'S NOT AN, OR A UM, UM, UH, SECONDARY UNIT.
LET'S SAY IT'S NOT LESS THAN THE MAIN HOUSE BECAUSE IT IS TALL, IT IS BROAD.
UM, AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE BEGINNING TO SEE A LITTLE BIT MORE ADUS THAT REALLY PUSH THE ENVELOPE OF THEIR SIZE.
UM, AND SO I'LL SUPPORT THIS, BUT I JUST THINK THIS IS A, A, AN INTERESTING CASE STUDY TO SEE HOW UH, THE FOOTPRINT AND HEIGHTS COMBINE CREATE A SIZE AND A MASS
[00:45:01]
THAT REALLY DO NOT SATISFY THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT DESCRIPTION.AND HERE I KNOW WE'RE COMBINING SOME THINGS.
SO WE HAVE AN ACCESSORY DWELLING WITH AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, WHICH IS A GARAGE AND WE HAVE A CABANA, ALL OF WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, ALLOWED BY THE CURRENT CODE AND REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO I GUESS UNTIL, IF THAT CHANGES THEN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THINGS WILL CHANGE, RIGHT? AND SO IT'S JUST AS SOMEBODY IS DEPENDENT UPON THE, THE LITERAL CODE AND THE ORDINANCES TO GET WHAT THEY DESIRE VERSUS YOUR ONE'S INTUITION LOOKING AT THIS GOING BY, THIS IS GOING TO BE BIG.
AND I THINK UNFORTUNATELY AS EVERYBODY KNOWS, PEOPLE WHO MOVE FROM OUTSIDE THE DOWNTOWN AREA, WE GET THIS ALL THE TIME.
WANT TO DO FIT SOMETHING THAT'S IN BURN OR SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND SO THAT'S ALWAYS A CHALLENGE AS WELL.
I WOULDN'T SAY THAT THIS IS THIS CASE WITH THESE CLIENTS, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS.
IT'S A SIMILAR CHALLENGE WE COME UP, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH MM-HMM
BUT THAT WAS JUST THE COMMENT I WANTED TO MAKE.
ANYTHING FURTHER? YEAH, AND, AND JUST TO ITERATE, THE REASON WHY I AM SUPPORTING THIS HEIGHT AND THIS UH, MASS, IT IS REALLY BECAUSE OF THE LOT SIZE, THE LOCATION AND BECAUSE WHAT'S EXISTING IN THAT CURRENT BLOCK, AND THAT'S WHAT WE SAY EVERY TIME, RIGHT? EVERY PROPERTY WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT INDIVIDUALLY OF COURSE.
AND WHAT'S AROUND IT, NOT WHAT'S FIVE BLOCKS, WHAT'S 10 BLOCKS AWAY OR WHERE THE PROPERTY SITUATED IS IMPORTANT TOO.
UM, SO THAT'S, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WHY, THE REASON WHY I AM I'M SUPPORTING THIS.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SAVINA? AYE.
ITEM NUMBER 12 IS 1113 PLEASANTON ROAD.
UH, AND A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE CITY IS HERE.
WELL, MR. CHAIR, I, I PULLED ITEM 12 AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT.
THERE WERE TWO VERY SPECIFIC REASONS WHY THEY'RE VERY SHORT.
FIRST IS JUST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ANY PUBLIC THAT'S VIEWING, UH, THIS HEARING TO KNOW THAT THERE'S A NEW FIRE STATION GOING ON PLEASANTON, AND IT SHOULD BE SAID AS MANY TIMES AS IT POSSIBLY CAN.
I'M, UH, APPOINTED BY THE, UH, DISTRICT THREE REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT AREA AND I'M, AND I'M SURE THAT SHE'S JUST AS EXCITED.
UM, IT'S A VERY, UH, IMPORTANT PART OF THE CITY AND UH, THE IDEA THAT, UH, THE FIRE STATION THAT IT HAD WAS NOT ADEQUATE, BUT NOW THAT IT WILL HAVE AN ADEQUATE FIRE STATION, I THINK IS A VERY BIG DEAL.
SO, UH, I WANT TO JUST SEND A, I DON'T KNOW IF IF IT'S PROPER TO SAY A SHOUT OUT TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND, AND THANK, THANK THE CITY FOR THAT.
BUT I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION FOR, FOR STAFF, JUST FOR, UH, UNDERSTANDING WHY THIS IS COMING BEFORE THE HDRC.
IS IT BECAUSE IT'S A CITY STRUCTURE? 'CAUSE IT'S NOT A HISTORIC DISTRICT, RIGHT? CORRECT.
UH, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIRES HDRC APPROVAL FOR CITY FACILITIES.
SO THEN, SO THEN IN, IN THAT, EDWARD EDWARD, JUST ONE, ONE LITTLE DETAIL, IT WOULD BE SPECIFICALLY LOOKING AT IT WITH RESPECT TO, UH, FROM THE CITY'S PERSPECTIVE, WHAT, WHAT ARE Y'ALL LOOKING AT WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT IN A HISTORIC CONTEXT BUT IS PROPERTY OWNED BY THE CITY? YOU'D SAY GENERAL DESIGN INTENT AND PURPOSES, UH, TO MAKE SURE THERE'S AT LEAST QUALITY ARCHITECTURE OR REPRESENTATIVE ARCHITECTURE.
THANK, THANK YOU EDWARD FOR THAT HARD ANSWER.
QUESTION, QUICK QUESTION, MR. CHAIR.
YEAH, ON THE, UM, ON THE INTRODUCTION IT SAYS THE SITE IS A LONG ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD AND SEVERAL, SO LOCAL LANDMARK AND SIGNIFICANT FACILITIES INCLUDING THE HARLANDALE METHODIST CHURCH TO MASONIC LODGE AND THE HARLANDALE BUILDING.
IS THAT ON THE PROPERTY? THAT WAS, THAT THAT'S BEEN, UH, UH, ACQUIRED? WERE ANY OF THOSE FACILITIES ON THAT PROPERTY AT ALL ON THE CURRENT PROPERTY? THE WHOLE FOOTPRINT, UH, THE FOOTPRINT OF THE PROPERTY IS SHOWN HERE.
UM, THERE IS A RELATED DEMOLITION, THE, THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING ON PLEASANTON THAT HAS GONE THROUGH THE DEMOLITION REVIEW PROCESS AND HAS BEEN APPROVED.
NO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TEXAN, RIGHT? YES.
BUT OKAY, SO, SO NOTHING LEFT OF THE FIRE STATION 21 WAS ANYWHERE ON THAT LOT.
THE HISTORIC STATION THAT IS USED NOW AS A DIFFERENT PROPERTY.
AND MR CHAIR, JUST FOR JIMMY'S REFERENCE, UH, THE TEXAN HAS MOVED DOWN SOUTH FLORES AND THEIR FISH IS STILL AS GOOD AS IT EVER WAS.
THAT'S RIGHT, YES, I'M FAMILIAR.
ANYTHING FURTHER? IF NOT, MAY I HAVE A MOTION? PLEASE MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS.
SECOND'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION JUST FOR ADMIN STUFF TO MR. CHAFE? SOME,
[00:50:01]
IF WE HAVE A GENERAL COMMENT TO A CASE, WE CAN JUST DO IT WHILE WE ARE ON THE CONSENT AND AGENDA.SO WE DON'T HAVE THE APPLICANTS WAITING OR UM, HAVE TO PUT IT UP FOR A VOTE OR RISK.
WE CAN ALWAYS JUST DO COMMENTS RIGHT TO CASE.
SO YES, SO IF YOU HAVE THAT IN FUTURE OR ANY, ANY COMMISSIONER, YOU COULD JUST MAKE THE COMMENT SO, UM, THAT WAY WE ARE NOT HOLDING IT UP SO, BUT I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DID IT BUT YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT IN THE FUTURE.
ALRIGHT, MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SAVINO? AYE.
[INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION]
ITEM NUMBER 13 PLEASE.AGENDA ITEM NUMBER 13 HDRC CASE NUMBER 20 24 0 5 4 4 12 NORTH OLIVE.
THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, MODIFY THE EXISTING FENESTRATION PATTERN BY CENTERING THE FRONT DOOR AND REMOVING A SIDE DOOR ON THE NORTH FACADE.
TWO TO INSTALL DOUBLE HUNG WOOD WINDOWS TO REPLACE THE EXISTING NON-ORIGINAL WINDOWS.
AND THREE, TO CONSTRUCT A REAR ADDITION TO FEATURE AN OVERALL FOOTPRINT OF 660 SQUARE FEET, WHICH WILL REQUIRE MODIFICATIONS TO AN EXISTING SHED ROOF AND REAR MASSING OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE.
STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF STAFF, RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, MODIFICATIONS TO THE FRONT FAC, FRONT FACADES FENESTRATION BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION.
ONE THAT ALL CURRENT WINDOW SIZES BE MAINTAINED AND THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT A WOOD DOOR, UH, FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL THAT IS CONSISTENT OR APPROPRIATE IN STYLE FOR THE FOLK.
VICTORIAN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO.
THE INSTALLATION OF DOUBLE HUNG WOOD WINDOWS BASED ON FINDING E WINDOWS SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE ADOPTED STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION AND SHOULD BE INSTALLED CONSISTENTLY WITH THESE STANDARDS.
AND THREE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REAR EDITION BASED ON FINDINGS F THROUGH I WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS.
ONE THAT WINDOWS BE CONSISTENT WITH THE ADOPTED STANDARDS FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION AND SHOULD BE INSTALLED CONSISTENTLY WITH THESE STANDARDS.
TWO, THAT THE COMPOSITE SIDING FEATURE IS SMOOTH FINISH AND FEATURING EXPOSURE THAT IS COMPARABLE TO THE PROFILE OF THE ORIGINAL SIDING BENEATH THE ASBESTOS SIDING TILES.
THE FENESTRATION BE ADDED TO BOTH SIDE FACADES AS THESE ARE LARGELY VOID TO FENESTRATION.
WINDOWS SHOULD BE CONSISTENT IN SIZE WITH THE WINDOWS FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT.
AND, UH, FOUR THAT EXTERIOR DOORS ARE WOOD AND FEATURE PROFILE APPROPRIATE FOR THE SIZE FOR THE STYLE DOORS ARE BE TO BE SUBMITTED TO OHP STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL.
UM, THE APPLICANT'S, UH, MR. DAVID PEREZ AND DR.
PLEASE, UM, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOUR CASE.
AND MS. PEREZ, I HAD TO MUTE YOU EARLIER 'CAUSE WE WERE GETTING SOME NOISES, SO YOU'LL HAVE TO UNMUTE AGAIN THERE.
YEAH, HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU.
PLEASE, PLEASE PRESENT YOUR CASE, SIR.
UH, WELL, UH, WE'RE GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH THIS AND I THOUGHT, I BELIEVE THAT WE'VE ALREADY, UM, EVERYTH ALL THE ITEMS THAT HAVE, WERE MEETING ALREADY.
UH, MR. PEREZ MAYBE, UM, A MORE DIRECT QUESTION.
UH, SO I EMAILED YOU OUR RECOMMENDATION, UH, THAT WE WERE RECOMMENDING APPROVAL, UH, OF THE ADDITION OF THE MODIFICATION TO THE FRONT FACADE, UH, AND OF THE WINDOWS, THE WOOD WINDOWS THAT YOU HAD PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED TO INSTALL.
UM, AND THERE WERE STIPULATIONS INCLUDED WITH THOSE.
UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT WE JUST NEED TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH THOSE STIPULATIONS.
UH, IF YOU DO, UH, THEN JUST NOTE THAT AND THEN THE REST OF IT CAN BE COORDINATED WITH STAFF AS FAR AS, UH, WHEN YOU START WORK AND WHEN YOU, UH, PROVIDE ANY ADDITIONAL, UH, MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS.
UH, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ANY OF THOSE STIPULATIONS, UH, THEN WE CAN DISCUSS THOSE NOW.
I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, MR. CHAIR.
UM, MR. PEREZ, I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR.
SO EDWARD ASKED YOU IF YOU WERE, UM, YOU WERE AGREEING TO EVERYTHING, SO YOU'RE AGREEING TO EVERYTHING AS FAR AS THE STAFF STIPULATION GOES, IS THAT CORRECT? I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE.
[00:55:02]
AHEAD, UM, SO IT'S NOT HISTORICALLY OF, I DON'T THINK THAT FRONT DOOR WAS THERE, RIGHT? OR WHAT'S THE STORY BEHIND THE DOOR? UM, CORRECT.SO, UM, IF YOU KIND OF PEEL OFF SOME OF THE LAYERS AND BEFORE I FORGET, UM, THERE'S A LETTER FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND A VOICEMAIL TO PLAY.
UM, BUT UM, THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS WERE REMOVED AND MODIFIED.
UH, IF YOU GO TO THE FIRST STREET VIEW AVAILABLE 2007, YOU CAN SEE THOSE MODIFICATIONS.
UH, THERE'S ALSO MODIFICATIONS TO THE FRONT FACADE.
UH, SO IN THIS CASE WE FIND THE FRONT FACADE BEING MODIFIED IN THE WINDOW SIZES, DOOR LOCATION, UH, THAT'S CENTERING A FRONT DOOR.
UH, AND HAVING AN APPROPRIATE SIZE AND PROFILE THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSED WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
AND THEN ON THE ADDITION SIZE, I MEAN IT'S STILL SMALLER IN SIZE THAN THE ORIGINAL, UM, STRUCTURE, CORRECT? YES.
WE FOUND IT TO BE APPROPRIATE WITH THE GUIDELINES REGARDING THE FOOTPRINT.
OTHER QUESTIONS? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
UH, I NEED TO PLAY THE VOICEMAIL FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
HI, THIS IS LULU FRANCOIS CHAIR PERSON OF THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD REVIEW COMMITTEE CALLING IN FOR HDRC CASE NUMBER 0 5 4.
WE DO NOT AGREE WITH O P'S RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE THE FRONT DOOR TO THE CENTER OF THE HOUSE AND TO COMPLETELY REMOVE THE SIDE DOOR.
IT SEEMS AS IF BOTH DOORS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR SOME TIME, WHICH WOULD THEN MAKE THEM HISTORICAL.
OHP GUIDELINES STIPULATE THAT DOORS AND WINDOWS SHOULD REMAIN IN PLACE.
OHP HAS PREVIOUSLY MADE APPLICANTS MOVE DOORS TO THEIR ORIGINAL LOCATIONS AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THESE TWO DOORS SHOULD STAY WHERE THEY ARE.
WE DO NOT AGREE WITH O P'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THE SIZE OF THE PROPOSED ADDITION.
ADDITIONS SHOULD NOT DOUBLE THE SIZE OF THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE.
WE ARE ASKING FOR CONFIRMATION FROM STAFF ON THE PROPER SIZE PERCENTAGE FOR AN ADDITION TO THE MAIN STRUCTURE.
WE DO AGREE WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THE DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS.
YOU ALSO SAYS A LETTER IN OUR PACKET, CORRECT? CORRECT.
THERE IS A LETTER IN YOUR PACKET.
ALRIGHT, I'LL HAVE A MOTION PLEASE.
UH, MOTION TO APPROVE WITH ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS.
SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY.
ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I JUST WANNA SAY, UH, MR. CHAIR, THAT THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN EMPTY FOR QUITE A LONG TIME.
IT'S IN STRUCTURALLY PRETTY GOOD CONDITION AND I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO, UH, MR. PEREZ'S WORK ON IT.
AND, AND MAYBE JUST FOR THE RECORD, COULD YOU STATE THE PERCENTAGES OF THE ADDITION VERSUS THE MAIN HOUSE? DO WE HAVE THAT AVAILABLE? THE PROPOSED REAR ADDITIONS FOOTPRINT IS 660 SQUARE FEET, UH, PER BCA.
THE FOOTPRINT OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS 870 SQUARE FEET.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SINO? AYE.
CASE NUMBER 2025, UH, 1 0 1 6 2 2 AND 6 2 6 NOLAN, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT FIVE TWO-STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES AT 6 22 AND 6 26 NOLAN STREET LOCATED WITHIN THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THREE STRUCTURES WILL BE CONSTRUCTED ON THE LOT.
6 22 NOLAN AND TWO STRUCTURES WILL BE CONSTRUCTED TO THE REAR OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE AT 6 26.
NOLAN STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE GENERAL LOT LAYOUT, BUILDING FOOTPRINT, AND BUILDING ORIENTATION WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS.
ONE THAT A SITE PLAN NOTING THE PROPOSED SETBACK IN RELATIONSHIP TO OTHERS ON THE BLOCK BE SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL WHEN, WHEN RETURNING TO THE COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE MEASUREMENTS OF THE HEIGHTS OF ADJACENT HISTORIC STRUCTURES TO CONFIRM THAT THE PROPOSED STRUCTURES HEIGHT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES.
THAT FOUNDATION HEIGHTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES BEING INCORPORATED.
AS NOTED IN FINDING HA FOUNDATION HEIGHT OF AT LEAST ONE FOOT SHOULD BE INSTALLED.
THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE LIGHT COVERAGE PERCENTAGES AS NOTED IN FINDING J FIVE.
THAT COMPOSITE SIDING FEATURE SMOOTH EXPOSURES, OR EXCUSE ME, FEATURE EXPOSURES OF NO MORE THAN FOUR INCHES AND NO FAUX WOOD GRAIN FINISH WINDOWS ARE TO ADHERE TO THE ADOPTED STANDARDS
[01:00:01]
FOR WINDOWS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION.ALL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS ARE TO BE SUBMITTED WHEN RETURNING TO THE COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
THAT FENESTRATION IS ADDED TO EACH SIDE FACADE OF THE FOUR REAR STRUCTURES AND THAT THE APPLICANT CONSIDER CENTERING THE SECOND LEVEL WINDOWS BENEATH THE FRONT SIDE.
GABLE AS NOTED IN FINDING N UH, SEVEN AT THE FRONT PORCH OF THE STRUCTURE FACING NOLAN STREET, FEATURE COLUMNS THAT RESPOND TO THE STRUCTURE'S ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN AND AT THE REAR STRUCTURES FEATURE A ROOF ELEMENT AT EACH PORCH IS NOTED IN FINDING O AND P, UH, EIGHT, THAT THE REAR STRUCTURES FE THAT THE REAR STRUCTURES FEATURE VARIOUS FACADE ELEMENTS, FENESTRATION PRO AND MATERIAL PROFILES TO DISTINGUISH THEM AS UNIQUE DESIGNS IS NOTED IN FINDING Q NINE THAT THE APPLICANT REDUCED THE WIDTH OF THE PROPOSED CENTRAL DRIVEWAY TO NO MORE THAN 10 FEET IN WIDTH.
IF ADDITIONAL WIDTH IS REQUIRED BY CODE TO ACCOMMODATE EMERGENCY VEHICLES, IT SHOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH THE USE OF MATERIALS THAT ARE, THAT ALSO SERVE AS LANDSCAPING ELEMENTS SUCH AS GRASS CREEK.
ADDITIONALLY, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE TWO PROPOSED SIDE DRIVEWAYS BE ELIMINATED AS THEY INTRODUCE FRONT YARD PARKING CONDITIONS.
10, THAT A FRONT WALKWAY BE ADDED FROM THE FRONT PORCH OF THE STRUCTURE FACING NOLAN TO THE SIDEWALK AT THE RIGHT OF WAY IS NOTED IN FINDING YOU 11, THAT ALL MECHANICALLY EQUIPMENT LOC IS LOCATED IN A MANNER THAT IS SCREENED FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC.
RIGHT OF WAY IS NOTED IN FINDING THE, UM, 11, EXCUSE ME, 12, THAT A DETAILED LANDSCAPING PLAN BE SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL AND RETURNING TO THE COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
AND 13, THAT THE REQUIRED INFIELD DESIGN APPLICATION SUPPLEMENT IS SUBMITTED WHEN RETURNING TO THE COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL IS NOTED IN FINDING C UH, THE APPLICANT, MR. OON, OCHO IS HERE IN PERSON.
I'M ALAN OCHO WITH THE PROJECT, UH, 6 2 2 AND 66 NOLAN STREET.
WE AGREE WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS THAT STAT OHP HAS RECOMMENDED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, UH, ITEM NUMBER SEVEN ON THE REAR STRUCTURE.
ALTHOUGH WE ARE GONNA GO AHEAD AND TAKE A LOOK AT THAT D UM, THAT REQUEST TO PUT A ROOF LINE AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO, UH, UM, ACCOMMODATE THAT AS WELL AS NUMBER NINE.
STAFF PROPOSED THE SIDE DRIVEWAYS BE ELIMINATED AS THEY INTRODUCED FRONT YARD PARKING CONDITIONS.
UM, THE PARKING THERE OFTEN, NOLAN WAS THE ONLY, UH, ACCESSIBLE AREA THAT YOU COULD HAVE A DRIVEWAY, BUT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE DO, UM, ABIDE BY THOSE.
UM, CAN I HAVE VOICEMAILS PLEASE? HELLO, THIS IS VALERIE CORTEZ CALLING ON BEHALF OF DICK WOOD HILLS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD REVIEW COMMITTEE REGARDING CASE NUMBER 2025 DASH 1 0 1 FOR NOLAN STREET.
WE STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH O P'S RECOMMENDATION OF CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
ALL THE HOUSES ON NOLAN STREET FROM NORTH CHERRY TO NORTH NEW BRAUNFELS ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WITH BACKYARDS USED BY THE HOMEOWNERS.
ALL THE HOUSES ON THE 600 BLOCK OF NOLAN TO INCLUDE 6 22 AND 6 26 ARE ZONED R SIX SINGLE FAMILY EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE THAT IS ZONED R FOUR SINGLE FAMILY.
WHY WOULD STAFF EVEN CONSIDER ALLOWING FOUR MORE HOUSES TO BE ADDED TO THESE TWO LOTS? INFILL DEVELOPMENT WITH TOWNHOUSES IS NOT NEEDED NOR WANTED.
THE APPLICANT DID MEET WITH THE BOARD AND PRESENTED THIS DESIGN.
HE WAS SPECIFICALLY TOLD THAT IT WOULD NOT BE SUPPORTED AND A REQUEST WAS MADE FOR HIM TO SIMPLY BUILD THE MAIN HOUSE AT 6 22 NOLAN.
IF HE WANTED, HE COULD ADD INDIVIDUAL ADUS FOR EACH HOUSE.
BUILDING FOUR ADDITIONAL TWO STORY HOUSES ON THESE TWO LOTS WILL HEAVILY IMPEDE THE PRIVACY OF THE NEIGHBORS.
IT COMPLETELY GOES AGAINST THE EXISTING MAKEUP OF THE REST OF THE HOUSES ON NOLAN, ALL THE WAY FROM NORTH CHERRY TO NORTH NEW BRAUNFELS.
AND WE HAVE NOT EVEN TALKED ABOUT THE PROBLEMS THE DESIGN WILL CAUSE FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO ACCESS THE BACK OF THEIR HOUSES FROM BOSTON ALLEY.
THE APPLICANT SAID IN HIS PACKET THAT HE IS COMMITTED TO MAINTAINING THE HISTORIC AESTHETIC OF DIGNITY HILL, ALIGNING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S PRESERVATION GOALS.
IF THAT IS TRUE, THEN HE SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO THE REQUEST MADE OF HIM AT THE DIGNITY HILL BOARD MEETING AND NOT TRY TO CONTINUE WITH THIS DESIGN THAT CHANGES THE ENTIRE MAKEUP OF ALL OF NOLAN STREET.
THIS IS WHY WE STRONGLY ASK THAT THE HDRC COMMITTEE NOT APPROVE THIS APPLICATION.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMENTS? UM, NO THANK YOU SIR.
QUESTIONS FOR THE COMMISSION? I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
SO THERE'S THREE DRIVEWAYS ON NOLAN.
OH, WELL, ONE WOULD BE A MAIN APPROACH TO THE BACK,
[01:05:02]
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? YOU DO HAVE THE, UH, FIRST DRIVEWAY ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, UM, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE MAIN, THE MAIN ONE THAT LEADS TO THE BACK, UH, TO THE BACK, UM, RESIDENCE.AND THEN YOU HAVE THE ONE THAT WOULD BE FOR, UH, 6 2 6 ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.
WHAT'S EXISTING RIGHT NOW? UH, RIGHT NOW THERE IS ONE IN THE MIDDLE THAT'S 10 FOOT.
SO YOU WOULD ALSO BE ADDING, YOU WERE DOUBLING THE SIZE ON THAT ONE? UH, YES MA'AM.
SO JUST TO UNDERSTAND, UM, IS THIS GONNA BE ONE ADDRESS, TWO ADDRESS? HOW DOES THAT FUNCTION? UH, I BELIEVE THE CLIENT WOULD BE HAVING IT AS INDIVIDUAL ADDRESSES.
SO THE HOUSE THAT SAYS HOUSE ON THE LEFT IS GONNA BE ONE ADDRESS? ONE ADDRESS, YES MA'AM.
AND THEN THAT'S AN EXISTING PROPERTY RIGHT NOW? YEAH.
AND THEN THE OTHER HOUSE WILL HAVE THE OTHER ADDRESS? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND THEN THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ARE EACH ADDITIONAL ADDRESSES, YOU'LL HAVE SIX ADDRESSES.
SO YOU'RE GONNA DIVIDE IT IN SIX LOTS? THAT'S CORRECT.
MAYBE JUST TO GET THAT TO GO THEN, LIKE WHAT'S THE PROCESS HERE FOR YOU? IF YOU GET THIS CONCEPTUAL, THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO ZONING AND GET CORRECT.
RE PLATTERED AND ALL THAT? YES, MA'AM.
IS THAT THE REASON? YES, MA'AM.
SO IT WOULD BE SIX DIFFERENT PROPERTIES? YES, MA'AM.
WOULD BOOKER ALLEY HAVE AN ADDRESS OR, UM, I GUESS WHEN WE GO TO ZONING WE CAN LOOK AT THAT AND SEE IF THAT'S AN OPTION.
OTHER QUESTIONS? I, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF ED EDWARD.
THE, THE, IF, IF THIS DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION, WOULD A PERSON BE ABLE TO GO TO JUST DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND THAT THIS WOULD MEET ALL THE APPLICABLE CODES? AND THE ONLY THING, THE ONLY SNAG IS THAT, OH, IT'S GOTTA GO TO HP.
BUT IF IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME HERE, WOULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS PASS? UH, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM ZONING STAFF IS THAT THE APPLICANT NEEDS A CHANGE IN ZONING.
UH, SO, UM, IT, IT WOULD NEED, IT WOULD HAVE TO WORK THROUGH THAT PROCESS OUTSIDE OF THAT.
IDEALLY SOMEBODY, IF THIS WASN'T LOCATED IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE, IF THE ZONING WAS IN PLACE, SOMEONE COULD GO TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND SUBMIT A PERMIT APPLICATION, UH, AND THEN THEY WOULD JUST BE WORKING THROUGH A, A, AN ADDRESSING AND A BUILDING REVIEW MORE OR LESS.
WELL, THE REASON WHY I ASK IS THAT, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT THERE'S ANYTHING IN HERE RELEVANT TO WHAT THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING THAT IT'S, UM, A, A PRIMARY CONCERN.
IT WOULD SEEM THAT THE CONCERNS OR ANY APPLICABLE QUESTION, REALLY SERIOUS QUESTION THE APPLICANT COULDN'T ANSWER IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ON THE STAFF SIDE.
UH, OR THAT MR. CHAIR, THAT MAY PERHAPS WE WOULD HAVE A MOTION OR THAT MAYBE MAKE A MOTION THAT THE HCRC COULD DISCUSS THIS CIRCUMSTANCE.
I WOULD LIKE TO DO ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION BEFORE THE MOTION.
WELL, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, AND, AND, AND, AND, AND I, UH, WOULD BE RESPECTFUL OF YOUR QUESTION, UH, COMMISSIONER GRU, BUT ALSO ASK THAT IF YOUR QUESTION WOULD BE MORE ENABLED IN A DISCUSSION BETWEEN US IN TERMS OF THE, THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF THIS APPEARING OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
HOW ABOUT I DO MY QUESTION AND THEN WE CAN, OKAY.
MY QUESTION IS ACTUALLY TWO STAFF AND THE PROCESS.
SO THEY WILL GO TO ZONING TO GET THIS RE PLATTED TO SIX LOTS.
THEN EACH OF THESE HOUSES WILL BE THEN CONSIDERED INDIVIDUALLY IN FRONT OF US.
UM, I, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT SPECIFICALLY.
AS THE APPLICANT HAS IT LAID OUT.
NOW, HE WOULD NEED AN ADDITIONAL ZONING APPROVAL FOR THREE RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON 6 22 AND THE TWO ADDITIONAL UNITS ON, UH, 6 26.
UM, IF I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD WORK IF YOU WENT TO REPLAY AND HAVE, SO MR. CHOA, THE IDEA IS TO GET SIX DIFFERENT ADDRESSES.
SO THERE'S NOT LIKE AN HRA OR LIKE A, IT'S NOT GONNA BE, WE'VE SEEN THAT, RIGHT? THEY DO A MAIN HOUSE AND THEN TWO ADDITIONAL, AND THEN YOU KIND OF, BETWEEN ALL THE OWNERS OF THE HOUSES, IT'S JUST KIND OF MAINTAIN THE MAIN DRIVEWAY, STUFF LIKE THAT.
THE IDEA IS THAT EACH HOUSE WILL HAVE ITS OWN ADDRESS.
SO THEN WHEN WE COME TO THAT POINT, WE ARE, IF EACH OF THEM HAVE THEIR OWN ADDRESS, THEN WE ARE GONNA CONSIDER INDIVIDUAL THE DESIGN.
AND THEN THE GUIDELINES WE APPLY TO EACH INDIVIDUAL LOT AND COMPLETELY CHANGE THE RECOMMENDATIONS TODAY.
UH, WELL WE, I'LL ADD THIS IS, THIS IS THE RIGHT ORDER OF THINGS.
LIKE HE'S COMING HERE FIRST NOT FOR INFORMATION ON ADDRESSING, NOT FOR THE DENSITY, BUT SIMPLY SAYING, DOES THIS AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION, IS IT CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND IS IT CONSISTENT WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN FOR THE AREA? BUT SO WE'RE LOOKING AT LOT COVERAGE BUILDING HEIGHT, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING THEN LOT COVERAGE WILL BE AN ISSUE CO CORY, THAT'S WHY I SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE A DISCUSSION
[01:10:01]
BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER CASES TODAY.BUT THE, THE THING IS THAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID, I'LL DO A MOTION AND THEN WE CAN GO DISCUSSION.
HOW ABOUT THAT? WELL, IT'S BETTER IF WE JUST GO TO A MO WITHOUT THEM INVOLVED, THEN WE CAN HAVE A MOTION JUST TO DISCUSS.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT MOTIONS ARE GONNA DO.
SO THE APPLICANT IS NOT NECESSARILY INVOLVED IN THAT.
SO ONCE WE MAKE THE MOTION, MR. CHAIR, WE GO ONE MOMENT PLEASE.
ONCE WE HAVE THAT, THEN WE'LL GO INTO DISCUSSION.
THEN WE'LL BRING THE APPLICANT UP IF NEED BE.
AND THEN I UNDERSTAND THAT, MR. CHAIRMAN.
SEE WE CAN HAVE A MOTION JUST FOR US TO DISCUSS THIS, WHERE THERE'S NOT A MOTION TO APPROVE OR DENY JUST A MOTION TO DISCUSS.
SO CAN I MAKE A MOTION TO DISCUSS? ONE MOMENT PLEASE.
I'LL MAKE MOVE FOR FOR DISCUSSION.
CAN WE DISCUSS THEN THIS? OKAY, NOW, BECAUSE THEN I'M, CAN I CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION THAT STAFF WAS GONNA CLARIFY? THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR, SO WE HAVE TO VOTE ON THE MOTION RIGHT NOW.
WHAT? BUT, BUT NOW WE ARE IN DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION AND THE MAKER OF THE MOTION.
OKAY, SO WE WANNA HAVE DISCUSSION.
SO THE, THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR, BUT ALSO COMMISSIONER GROUP, YOU HAD, YOU HAD SOMETHING? NO, THAT IS A MOTION.
SO NOW WE CAN GO ONTO DISCUSSION.
AND THEN WE CAN CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE HAVING IF WE, ALRIGHT.
COMMISSIONER GROUP, JUST JUST BEAR WITH ME.
I THINK I'M ON THE SAME PAGE THAT YOU'RE ON, BUT WHAT I, WHAT I WE'RE TRYING TO GET AT IS, HAVE A SEAT, SIR.
PLEASE SEE, SEE THE HDC WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, MR. CHAIR, THERE'S BEEN A MOTION THAT HAS BEEN SECONDED.
WE'RE DISCUSSING THE MOTION AFTER THE VOTE TO APPROVE THE MOTION AS PRESENTED.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.
SO A CHICKEN OR THE EGG, BUT YEAH, I GOT YOU.
THE, THE HDRC HAS BEEN PUT IN THIS SITUATION A FEW TIMES AND IT CHIPS AWAY AT THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THERE'S NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT VEERS, BUT IT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME TO THE HDRC FIRST.
THE ONUS CAN BE ON THE OWNER TO GO DEAL WITH ALL OF THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES BECAUSE WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IN, IN MANY CASES, NOT JUST THIS CASE, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS US TO PREEMPTIVELY APPROVE A CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WE CAN ALREADY SEE IS NOT APPROVABLE DOWN THE LINE.
IF WE GET TO, UH, COMMISSIONER GRU'S, UH, UH, UH, REALLY, UH, A KIND OF, UH, SHARP QUESTION, THEY'RE GONNA COME BACK AND WE'RE GONNA PROVE SIX DIFFERENT UNITS AND WE'RE LOOKING AT THE CIRCUMSTANCE, AND IT WOULD BE THE ACTUAL CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL THAT ACTUALLY CREATES A SITUATION THAT COULDN'T POSSIBLY EXIST BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ZONING THAT EXISTS YET.
AND IT IS AN OUTCOME OF THE A DU THING.
AND, AND MAYBE THE, THE, THE, THE WAY THAT THERE HAS BEEN THE NEED TO CREATE MORE AND MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR HOUSING OR WHATEVER, AND THAT LOTS ARE GETTING PACKED IN.
AND IT'S NOT A NEGATIVE COMMENT TO THE APPLICANT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.
'CAUSE THAT'S KIND OF SOMETHING THAT IF IT'S AVAILABLE, THEN IT'S, IT'S PERFECTLY FINE.
BUT IF THERE'S NOT A ZONING CIRCUMSTANCE, THEN HOW CAN A PATTERN EXIST NOW DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY CAN'T MAKE A PATTERN HAPPEN, AND THEN WE COULD FIGURE OUT THAT IT EXISTS NOW AND IT'S, UM, VIABLE.
BUT I THINK THAT IT GETS TO KIND OF A MORAL QUESTION WITH RESPECT TO CHANGING THE PATTERNS IN COMMUNITIES WHERE WE CAN HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT OUR, UM, PATHWAY WOULD BE.
NOT THE APPLICANTS, BUT THE H DRCS EXPECTATIONS WITH RESPECT TO ZONING, UH, UH, VARIANCES, BOARDS OF ADJUSTMENTS, STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO JUST TO CONTINUE WITHOUT HAVING TO CHANGE ALL THE LAWS AND EVERYTHING.
AND, AND SO I WOULD SAY, I MEAN, I'M SUPPORTIVE OF WHAT YOU'RE PRESENTING TODAY BECAUSE OF THE PATH THAT YOU HAVE TO TAKE.
OKAY? BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IT IS RIGHT NOW IS IF WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS TWO, AS ONE ADDRESS, ONE LOT, RIGHT? WITH TWO NUMBERS.
SO YES, I AGREE THAT A LOT OF THESE STAFF STIPULATIONS HAVE TO STAY THERE, RIGHT? SO IT COULD BE THAT YOU CAN TAKE THIS ON, THERE'S TOO MANY DRIVEWAYS.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT THAT ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY.
WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE WANT TO LOT, LIKE MAYBE MAKE
[01:15:01]
IT LOOK LIKE IT'S TWO MAIN HOUSES AND THE A DU.WE'VE HAD THAT DISCUSSION MANY TIMES, RIGHT? SO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL COULD GET YOU TO GO TO ZONING, BUT A LOT OF THESE STIPULATIONS ARE VERY VALID AND THEY SHOULD ALL STAY.
NOW, IF YOU DO THAT AND YOU WANNA GO BACK AND THEN THESE BECOME SIX SLOTS, THEN THE CHANGE, THE COMPLETE EVERYTHING CHANGES BECAUSE THEN WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT LOT COVERAGE, LIKE THE 50% LOT RATIO AND PERMEABLE AREA AND DRIVEWAYS.
OKAY? THEN THAT'S A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.
SO I'M, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO DO THAT TO GO AND CHANGE IT TO SIX LOTS, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEN EACH ADDRESS WOULD BE HAVING ITS OWN DESIGN.
WE, WE DID THIS LIKE A MONTH AND A HALF AGO, SOMEWHERE THERE.
WELL, THERE, THERE, AND THERE MAY ALSO BE THE OPPORTUNITY.
UH, SO I THINK ONE THING IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THAT HISTORICALLY THESE WERE DEVELOPED AS TWO INDIVIDUAL LOTS WITH THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND THEN AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AT THE REAR.
UH, THEY'RE BOTH INCREDIBLY DEEP AND GO ALL THE WAY TO BOOKER ALLEY.
UM, AND SO, UM, THERE'S STILL THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THIS AS MAKING SURE, ENSURING THAT THE PRIMARY HISTORIC STRUCTURE ON 6 26 REMAINS AS SO, AND THAT THERE ARE TWO STRUCTURES THAT FEATURE A FOOTPRINT THAT MAYBE IS LESS AS HAS BEEN PRESENTED.
UM, AND THEN THE SAME OPPORTUNITY IN BUILDING A HOUSE THAT PRESENTS ITSELF AS A PRIMARY STRUCTURE FACING NOLAN.
AND THEN TWO ACCESSORIES BEHIND THAT.
UM, WE'VE ALSO HAD A, A HANDFUL OF OTHER APPLICATIONS IN THE PAST WHERE, UH, A HALF A BLOCK OR A THIRD OF A BLOCK OR A QUARTER OF A BLOCK, WHATEVER HAS BEEN DEVELOPED WITH SEVEN OR EIGHT INDIVIDUAL STRUCTURES.
UM, AND AT THAT TIME, THE COMMISSION HAS BEEN ABLE TO LOOK AT IT AND DETERMINE WHAT'S YEAH.
SO IF HE'S GONNA HAVE IT RE PLATTERED TO SIX DIFFERENT ADDRESSES, THEN IT BECOMES TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
WELL, I, I, I GUESS THE SECOND WAY TO LOOK AT THAT IS THERE HAVE BEEN APPLICATIONS TO WHERE ONE ADDRESS HAS BEEN SUBDIVIDED INTO SIX OR SEVEN ADDRESSES, AND EACH AD EACH STRUCTURE HAS ITS OWN ADDRESS ON THAT BLOCK.
UM, AND THEN HOW DO WE VIEW, HOW DO WE REVIEW THAT? I, IT, IT'S USUALLY BEEN ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT I WOULD SAY FOR THE MAJORITY OF THOSE, I, I THINK THE FOOTPRINT IS MORE THAN 50% OF THE SMALLER INDIVIDUAL LOT.
OUR HAND, OUR HANDS ARE SOMEWHAT TIED WITH THE PLATTING PROCESS.
SO PLATS ARE APPROVED AS LONG AS THEY'RE CONSISTENT WITH THE ZONING THAT IS STATE LAW.
AND THERE'S NOTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THIS ROOM THAT WOULD INFORM THAT PROCESS.
JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THE APPLICANT KNOWS.
SO WE DO HAVE TO, LIKE, IF THERE'S A PLAT, LIKE WE HAVE TO REVIEW AND CONSIDER IT AS A, AS A VALID REQUEST, WE CAN'T SAY, WELL, NO, WE, THIS WAS HISTORICALLY A BACKYARD, SO YOU CAN'T BUILD THERE.
AND SO YOU RAISE A GOOD POINT.
BUT WHAT I WAS JUST TRYING TO ITERATE IS THIS IS THE PREFERRED METHOD BECAUSE WHEN THIS GOES TO ZONING COMMISSION THE QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S AN HISTORIC, HISTORIC INDUSTRY IS GONNA BE, HAS THE HGRC SEEN IT AND WHAT DID THEY SAY? AND SO THE CONCEPTUAL REVIEW BECOMES AN IMPORTANT OPTIONAL NON-BINDING STEP TO GET THAT EARLY FEEDBACK.
IF THE EARLY FEEDBACK HERE IS IT'S TOO DENSE, THERE'S TOO MANY HOUSES, THEN THAT'S GOING TO INFORM WHAT HAPPENS DOWN THE ROAD WITH ZONING AND RE PLATING.
UM, WHERE WE'VE SEEN LOTS BROKEN UP INTO, UH, SUBDIVIDED IN NEW, UH, NEW PLATS, WE'VE AT LEAST SEEN WHAT THE PROPOSED PLATS ARE.
SO WE COULD SEE WHAT EACH STRUCTURE ON EACH INDIVIDUAL PLAT WAS LOOKING LIKE IN TERMS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, UH, LOT COVERAGE, UH, AND THAT SORT OF THING.
AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION, UH, IN THIS, UH, APPLICATION.
SO I THINK IT'S PREMATURE FOR US TO EVEN CONSIDER IT IF THE, IF THE GOAL IS TO EVENTUALLY RE PLAT IT INTO SIX, UH, INDIVIDUAL CASES MM-HMM
I AM POLITELY TRYING TO STEER YOU AWAY FROM THAT.
IF THIS COMES BACK AFTER PLATTING, THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT NO MATTER WHAT.
IF HE GOES INTO THE ZONING PROCESS WITH A RECOMMENDATION FROM THIS COMMITTEE, THEN THAT CARRIES MORE WEIGHT THAN NO ACTION.
RIGHT? THIS MAY I MR. CHAIR, GO AHEAD, SIR.
YOU GUYS SHOULD NOT BE BRINGING THIS TO US LIKE THIS.
NO ONE'S GONNA APPROVE SIX HOUSES ON HERE.
ALL RIGHT? IT'S, IT'S, YEAH, I GET IT.
IT'S PART OF THE PROCESS, BUT THIS IS, THERE'S NO WAY THIS IS GONNA COME IN.
LET'S JUST SAY HE GETS APPROVED.
HE'S GONNA GET SIX, SIX LOTS IN THERE.
THEN WE'RE GONNA BE APPROVING EACH INDIVIDUAL ONE.
IT'S GONNA GO AGAINST THE INTENT OF WHAT THE GUIDELINES SAY OVERALL.
I MEAN, YOU GUYS KNOW BETTER THAN TO BRING THIS AND SUGGEST THAT HE COME FORWARD WITH THIS.
I MEAN, THIS, THIS IS, THIS IS NOT HOW YOU GUYS SHOULD BE PRESENTING STUFF LIKE THIS TO US.
WELL, AND I'M LOOKING AT THE STAFF, I'M LOOKING AT STAFF ON THIS BECAUSE IT, IT'S JUST A, IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A FINGER DRILL.
YOU'RE NOT, NO ONE'S GONNA VOTE TO PUT SIX PROPERTIES ON TWO SINGLE FAMILY HOME PROPERTIES NO MATTER WHICH WAY YOU SKIN IT.
IT MIGHT PASS, IT WON'T PASS BY ME.
[01:20:01]
BUT THAT, THAT GOES AGAINST THE INTENT OF THE GUIDELINES.I YOU'RE TRYING TO GAME THE SYSTEM.
I DO WANT TO NOTE JUST WITH FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE, THE APPLICANT, I, SO IF, IF THE PROPERTY OWNER WANTED TO REPL IN THE SIX LOTS, THEN THAT'S A PROCESS THAT THEY COULD UNDERTAKE.
UH, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM ZONING IS, SO THESE ARE TWO SEPARATE LOTS THAT THE APPLICANT COULD GET A SIMPLE ZONING CHANGE AND THEN HAVE THE ZONING IN PLACE TO BUILD WHAT IS SHOWN ON THE SITE PLAN.
IF HE, HE GETS APPROVAL TODAY FOR A CON CONCEPT HERE.
WHAT IT'S, IF HE GETS APPROVED FOR THIS, THEN HE CAN REZONE THE SIX LOTS ANY WAY THAT THEY WANT.
RIGHT? WELL, AND THEN WE'RE, AND THEN WE'RE FORCED TO LOOK AT EACH INDIVIDUAL LOT.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS HE, HE TECHNICALLY WOULDN'T HAVE TO REPLANT IN THE SIX LOTS.
HE COULD GO AND GET A SIMPLE ZONING CHANGE AND BUILD WHAT'S SHOWN HERE ON THE TWO INDIVIDUAL LOTS.
SO HERE'S, THERE'S A LOT OF STIPULATIONS, AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT IS THIS IS CONCEPTUAL WITH A LOT, A LOT OF STIPULATIONS.
I ALSO DISAGREE WITH COMMISSIONER FETZER'S COMMENT ABOUT WHAT'S TOO EARLY.
I THINK THERE'S POTENTIAL, LIKE I KNOW THIS IS, I AGREE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE, THERE'S NOT REALLY A PATTERN FOR THAT MANY, BUT THERE HAS BEEN SOME EXAMPLES THEY HAVE.
AND I THINK THAT WILL, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING WHERE YOU HAVE TWO HOUSES AND MAYBE BECAUSE WE'RE USING BOOKER ALLEY, MAYBE FACING, I MEAN YOU HAVE NOT DONE THE WORK.
I ALSO DISAGREE THAT WE SHOULD MAKE YOU WORK MORE FOR SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO KEEP DISCUSSING.
WHEN IT'S REALLY JUST CONCEPTUAL AND YOU REALLY JUST NEED THIS FOR THE PLANNING.
WELL, WILL MR. CHAIR ONE CONSIDERATION, CONSIDER ONE MOMENT, SIR.
ARE YOU DONE? COMMISSIONER GROUP? AND THEN ALSO, IF YOU MAY WANNA TAKE EXAMPLES AND LOOK DOWN HAY STREET WHERE THEY DID THAT, WHERE THEY DID FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER WHERE THERE WASN'T ACCESS FROM AN ALLEY.
AND THERE'S MANY EXAMPLES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I I, THIS IS WHY I THINK THE STIPULATIONS ARE IMPORTANT IN EXACTLY THIS PROCESS BECAUSE THE ZONING WILL SEE THAT IT'S A RECOMMENDATION WITH A LOT OF STIPULATIONS.
WHEREAS ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS IS THE DRIVEWAY.
ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS IS AMASSING, ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS IS EXPOSURE, WHICH COMPLETELY CHANGES THE DESIGN, BUT THE STIPULATIONS ARE THERE AND YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.
MR. COMMISSIONER? HOLD A SECOND.
COMMISSIONER THE NEXT ONE? YES.
UM, I, TO THE MOST IMMEDIATE COMMENT, UM, THERE IS ONE EXAMPLE THAT I BELIEVE THAT HAS THE DRIVEWAY GOING THROUGH FROM A MAJOR STREET TO A, TO AN ALLEY THAT IS NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT, UM, UH, THIS ONE SEEMS TO BE, UM, EMULATING.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT WHAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT HERE TODAY, IF IT COULD HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, WE COULD ADDRESS IT IN THE WAY THAT STAFF INTENDS THIS PROCESS TO WORK.
AND THAT'S ALLOWING THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO GO TO ZONING.
BUT FRANKLY, WHAT YOU HAVE HERE OR WHAT IS HERE, UM, DOESN'T EVEN ALLOW THAT.
SO I WOULD SAY THIS IS INCOMPLETE SIMPLY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A FULLY, UM, A FULLY PLAYED OUT SITE PLAN.
AS COMMISSIONER FETZER SAID, YOU CAN PUT IN PLAT LINES, THEY'RE NOT REAL, BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING AS A PLAT LINE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAT IT, BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK WILL MAKE IT WORK.
WE SHOULD BE SEEING THAT WE SHOULD BE SEEING THAT INFILL DESIGN SUPPLEMENT.
CORRECT? THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT'S MEANT TO BE A TOOL AT THIS POINT.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT COMES IN AFTERWARDS AND GO, OH, BY THE WAY, I'VE CHECKED THE BOXES.
NO, IT'S MEANT TO BE A TOOL BECAUSE INFILL IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS IS A VERY SENSITIVE ENDEAVOR.
IT REALLY IS, AS THIS IS NOW, AND WHAT LITTLE INFORMATION WE SEE, I MEAN, OF WHAT LITTLE I COULD SAY IS IT DOESN'T FIT THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN, BUT THERE COULD BE WAYS TO MAKE IT FIT, BUT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION.
SO MY INCLINATION IS, UM, YOU KNOW, IS TO APPRECIATE THE PROCESS THAT STAFF HAS SET FORWARD WHERE WE DO REVIEW THIS FOR CONCEPTUAL, BUT AGAIN, YOU GOTTA GIVE US THE INFORMATION.
UH, MY INCLINATION AT THIS POINT WOULD, AND WE'RE NOT MAKING MOTIONS, BUT WE'RE JUST COMMENTING AND DISCUSSING IS, UM, SET IT UP FOR A DRC AND WE CAN WORK SOME OF THESE THINGS OUT, UM, IN THAT SETTING.
AND THEN WE CAN BE THOROUGH ABOUT IT.
IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN GO BACK AND, UM, UPDATE YOUR SITE PLAN BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT THE SITE PLAN.
SO, UM, THERE MAY BE WAYS TO DO IT SO THAT IT IS A LITTLE BIT MORE RELEVANT.
NO, UM, NOLAN STREET IS A MAJOR THOROUGHFARE, HIGH VISIBILITY FOR OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT THIS IS RIGHT.
[01:25:01]
SO THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING IN A WAY TO, TO GATHER EVERYBODY'S, UM, INTENT HERE.WELL, YOU KNOW, MR. MR. CHAIR, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE, WHEN I THINK OF DESIGN IN TERMS OF OUR, UH, PURVIEW, THERE ARE MANY ELEMENTS TO DESIGN, LANDSCAPE DESIGN, CONCEPTUAL DESIGN, UH, ROOF DESIGN, ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.
TO ME, THEY'RE LIKE, UH, A SCALE IN THE COMPARISON OF THE JUSTICE OF EACH CITIZEN ASKING FOR WHAT IT IS THAT THEY WANT.
WE HAD A DISCUSSION, CONTENTIOUS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE COLOR OF A ROOF, PUT A DROP ON THE SCALE.
THIS CHANGES THE PATTERN REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SUBJECT MATTER IS, WHERE THE SCALE OF CHANGE TO AN EXISTING DESIGN PATTERN IS AFFECTED DRAMATICALLY.
AND THOSE TWO THINGS ARE OUT OF BALANCE.
SO THE, THE WEIGHT OF OF THIS CHANGE, IT BRINGS UP, UH, THE DIFFERENT PATTERNS OVER TIME, HOW THERE ARE SOME PATTERNS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THOSE PATTERNS DISAPPEAR.
AND THERE ARE REASONS WHY THOSE PATTERNS DISAPPEAR.
LIKE LEAD PAINT DISAPPEARS, WHICH CHANGES COLORS AND THE, THE MOVEMENT TOWARD THE HO UH, TOWARD THE ACCESSORY DWELLING.
AND, AND THE DENSIFYING CAME WITH THIS IDEA THAT WE NEEDED TO BUILD MORE.
SO THE, UH, THE, UM, UDC CHANGED AND NOW THESE RULES THAT ARE ALLOWING THESE THINGS ARE ON THE BOOKS AND THEY'RE GOING INTO THESE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL LOTS DOING THINGS THAT ARE A LITTLE SHOCKING THAT WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST ALLOWED.
BUT THE PATTERN IS THERE AND SOMEHOW THE PATTERN IS ALLOWED, WHICH IS LIKE COREY'S SAYING PERFECTLY FINE, BUT A ZONING, UH, A SITUATION COULD SEEM THAT THAT SHOULD HAVE TO COME FIRST.
AND YES, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY THAT WE COULD GIVE A, A CONCEPTUAL THAT THAT EMPOWERS THAT ZONING EVEN FURTHER.
BUT WHEN THE ZONING COME FIRST, IT PUTS MORE PRESSURE ON THE DESIGNER AND ON THE OWNER TO DECIDE WHAT IS IT THAT THEY, THEY CAN GET AT THAT LEVEL BEFORE THEY COME HERE.
OTHERWISE, WE THEN BECOME REINFORCING THINGS THAT REALLY IN THE LONG RUN, THEY DISTURB NEIGHBORHOODS VERY, VERY MUCH IF THEY'RE OUTSIDE OF THE MF HIGHER PATTERNS, WHICH I THINK THIS FALLS RIGHT OUT.
SO IT'S JUST THAT I WANTED TO JUST HAVE A DISCUSSION, MR. CHAIR, I APPRECIATE YOU DOING THAT, BUT MORE, NOT SPECIFIC TO THIS CAUSE, BUT BECAUSE WE ARE EITHER A TREND MOVING PROGRESSIVELY IN THIS DIRECTION OR WE'RE A TREND SAYING, OKAY, THAT PERIOD HAS ENDED AT, OR AT LEAST WITH RESPECT TO WHAT WE CONSIDER OVER DENSIFIED.
ANY FURTHER QUESTION FOR STAFF? YES SIR.
FOR WE HAVE AN INFIELD DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION.
WOULD THAT PERTAIN TO THIS CASE? YES AND NO.
SO STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THAT SUPPLEMENT BE SUBMITTED FOR THIS.
IT'S NOT REQUIRED UNTIL THE APPLICANT RE REQUESTS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR SUBMITS FOR FINAL APPROVAL.
UM, AS WE SAID ABOUT OTHER OR NUMEROUS REQUESTS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, THE UDC DOESN'T HAVE A MINIMUM STANDARD FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
SO SOMEBODY COULD LITERALLY COME IN WITH A SITE PLAN, UH, FOR CONCEPTUAL TO GET FEEDBACK ON THAT.
UH, IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO HAVE THE INFILL SUPPLEMENT FOR THIS.
UH, BUT IT'S NOT A REQUIREMENT OF THE UDC FOR A CONCEPTUAL APPLICATION.
'CAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE VALUABLE TO HAVE IT AS, UH, IN THIS SITUATION TO COMPARE IT TO THE, UH, THE REQUIREMENTS IN THAT INFILL DEVELOPMENT PACKAGE.
I HAVE A QUESTION TO THAT, WHICH MEANS THAT IF HE DOES THAT, YOU WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF THIS CONCEPTUAL BECAUSE I MEAN, I DON'T WANNA HAVE THE APPLICANT COME BACK AND DO MORE WORK BECAUSE YOU'RE ALSO, ARE YOU ASKING FOR DESIGNS? ARE YOU ASKING FOR ALL THAT FOR HIM TO JUST GO TO ZONING OR, OR WOULD AN INFILL BE SOMETHING THAT THEN YOU WOULD CONSIDER? I MEAN, I'M JUST LAYING IT OUT HERE BECAUSE CONCEPTUAL, WE DO NOT REQUIRE IT AND WE DON'T REQUIRE E DETAILED DESIGNS EITHER.
BUT A CONCEPTUAL WILL ALLOW YOU TO GO GET THE ZONING TO BE DONE, RIGHT? WELL, NO, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT ZONING.
BUT IT ALLOWS HIM, THE OPPORTUNITIES PROCESSED THIS WHY THIS CASE IS DIFFERENT FORWARD AND GET FAVOR.
I SAID DOES THIS ALLOW HIM WHAT YOU JUST SAID, DOES THIS ALLOW HIM TO TAKE THE PACKET FORWARD AND GET FAVORABLE CONSIDERATION BY THE ZONING DEPARTMENT? THE ZONING APPLICATION ONLY REQUIRES A NOT VERY DETAILED SITE PLAN OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS SUBJECT TO A CHANGE.
THERE'S, SO NONE OF THIS WOULD BE SUBMITTED WITH A REQUEST FOR ZONING.
[01:30:01]
WHY IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IN MY OPINION, THAT ANY REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT WHERE NEW CONSTRUCTION IS THE GOAL, THAT THAT COMES WITH A RECOMMENDATION EITHER FOR OR AGAINST FROM THIS BODY TO THE ZONING COMMISSION.SO THEY CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU RECOMMEND.
MY QUESTION TO THAT WOULD BE NO MATTER WHAT'S ON THIS SCREEN RIGHT HERE, IF WE APPROVE SOMETHING OR WE APPROVE A CONCEPT THAT'S A FAVORABLE VIEW, EVEN THOUGH HE DOESN'T SUBMIT IT TO THE ZONING, THE FACT THAT WE APPROVED IT, THE ZONING SAYS, HEY, DID THEY APPROVE IT? YEAH, THEY DID.
AND THEN, OKAY, IT COULD BE A LEGO HOUSE ON THE SCREEN.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF WE APPROVE A LEGO HOUSE, HE'S GONNA GO TO ZONING AND ZONING'S GONNA BE LIKE, HEY, THEY APPROVED IT.
WHAT HAPPENS IS THERE'S A STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING COMMISSION, JUST LIKE YOU ALL GET, AND THERE WILL BE A FINDING THAT SAYS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
AND SO IF NOTHING HAPPENS HERE, WE LEAVE IT BLANK.
WE JUST SAY IT'S GONNA BE SUBJECT TO REVIEW IN THE FUTURE.
IF YOU ALL REVIEW IT CONCEPTUALLY AND YOU SAY IT'S TOO DENSE AND YOU DENY CONCEPTUAL REVIEW THAT GOES INTO THE FINDING.
IF YOU APPROVE IT, THAT GOES INTO THE FINDING AND IT DOES GET LOOKED AT.
OTHER COMMENTS? NOT MAY I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? MO MOTION FOR WHAT? WELL, WE HAVE UM, I'LL DO A MOTION.
OH, YOU WANT A MOTION? WE HAVE A MOTION FOR DISCUSSION NOW WE WHEN SORRY BARBARA, WE'RE GOING TO, I KNOW IT'S GONNA FAIL, BUT I'LL JUST DO A MOTION TO APPROVE A STAFF STIPULA, ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS.
IS THERE A SECOND? MOTION DIES FOR LACK OF A SECOND.
MAY I HAVE ANOTHER MOTION PLEASE? MR. CHAIR? I'D JUST LIKE TO ASK, DO, DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? YES.
I MEAN STAFF DO, DO WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER MOTION OR IS THAT CONSIDERED WE NEED, WE NEED MOTION ON THE APPLICATION.
UH, WHETHER THAT'S TO REFER TO SUBCOMMITTEE OR CONCEPTUALLY APPROVE OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
LET ME ASK A QUESTION ON THIS BEFORE WE DO A SECOND MOTION.
WHERE DOES THAT LEAD THE APPLICANT WITH THE MOTION TO? I KNOW WE DON'T LIKE TO DO MOTIONS TO DENY.
WHERE DOES THAT LEAD THE DENY? WHERE DOES THAT LEAD THE APPLICANT IN THE SAME BOAT? SO HE COULD COME BACK WITH A REVISED REQUEST.
IF HE WANTS TO SEEK ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK FROM THE COMMISSION, HE COULD SUBMIT A ZONING APPLICATION TOMORROW.
AND DEPENDING ON WHAT WAS THE OUTCOME THAT WOULD BE REPORTED IN THE FINDING, LIKE I SUGGESTED MR. CHAIR, I MOVE, UH, FOR DENIAL.
IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND FOR CONVERSATION.
I AM IN NO WAY SUPPORTIVE OF TEARING DOWN OR, OR ADDING OR STUFFING OTHER HOUSES INTO A BLOCK THAT HAS NICE LITTLE OLD HOMES ON THERE THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND SHOVING STUFF DOWN THE THROAT OF THESE TWO PROPERTIES HERE IS JUST NOT SOMETHING I CAN GET BEHIND.
SO THAT'S WHERE I'M AT ON THIS.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, I I FIND THIS VERY CHALLENGING AND SOME PROBLEMS, SOME INTERESTING THINGS HAPPENING.
ALSO INTERESTING POSSIBILITIES FOR THIS SITE.
UM, I DON'T THINK THAT THE SIX UNITS ON THIS PROPERTY WOULD, WOULD WORK, HONESTLY.
UM, AND TO GET A DENIAL, I MEAN WE COULD GO TO A DRC AND WHITTLE IT DOWN OR WE COULD JUST GIVE YOU A DENIAL AND YOU COME BACK WITH FOUR FOUR OR, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER ARRANGEMENT BECAUSE IN THE END YOU WILL HAVE TO DO A GOOD AMOUNT OF REDESIGNING SO YOU'LL END UP IN THE SAME PLACE REGARDLESS WHETHER WE GO TO DRCS AND GO BACK AND FORTH, OR IF WE JUST DENY IT OUT RIGHT NOW, SAVE YOU SOME TIME, YOU GO WORK ON IT, COME BACK AND MAYBE DO A PRE-SUBMIT CONSULTATION BETWEEN NOW AND THEN AND BRING IT BACK.
DOES THAT WELL, DO YOU HAVE NOTHING? COULD YOU HAVE COMMENTS, SIR? IT'S COMMON.
I JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO, UH, GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE'S NOT A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE THIS IS DONE.
I THINK WE MENTIONED ONE OF THE OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES AND YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF MORE FEET, YOU KNOW, ONE DIRECTION OR THE OTHER DIRECTION THINGS JUST START TO FEEL WHERE THEY WOULD ACTUALLY MEET CODE.
SO JUST CONSIDERING THAT IF YOU SUBDIVIDED IT, YOU SAY YOU WERE AN R FOUR, YOU CAN DO THE MATH.
NOW WHAT CAN BE PASSED THROUGH VARIANCES AND ALL THOSE THINGS, THAT'S ONE THING.
BUT THE RULE OF THUMB IS WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING CONCEPTUALLY, THE GOLDEN, THE GOLDEN MEAN THERE IS THAT, UH, THE ARGUMENT IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE OR, OR, OR HOW IT FITS.
BUT WHEN IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF WHAT TRADITIONALLY IS LIKE LIFE SAFETY, UH, PROXIMITY'S, UH, SUN, YOU CAN SEE THOSE THINGS RIGHT AWAY.
SO THIS CIRCUMSTANCE SEEMS THAT YOU'RE CUTTING A ROAD BETWEEN TWO HOUSES.
AND WHEN YOU DO A THING LIKE THAT, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE IT IMMEDIATELY CONCEPTUALLY SO THAT
[01:35:01]
WE CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT MASSING, BELIEVING THAT EVERYTHING ELSE IS THERE.SO THERE, THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE YOU CAN SEE THAT, THAT, THAT IT IS COMPLETELY POSSIBLE.
THIS SEEMS THAT IF IT WAS POSSIBLE, THE PRECEDENT, THE, THE DESIGN PRECEDENT THAT IT WOULD SET IS UH, VERY DISRUPTIVE.
UH, MUCH LIKE THE OLD RIVER ROAD UH, ARGUMENT THAT WE HAD MANY YEARS AGO.
UH, MAY I ASK ONE QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT? THIS BOTH LOTS ARE UM, ZONED R FOUR OR R SIX.
THEY ARE R SIX, WHICH ALLOWS AN A DU, CORRECT? AN A DU ALLOWS YOU TO DO FOUR UNITS, RIGHT? MM-HMM
YEAH, BUT THE THING IS THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT BUSINESS PERS BUT YOU GOTTA LOOK AT IT DOWN FROM THE LINE.
SO THEN IT'S GONNA BE LIKE AN HRA.
LIKE WE'VE DONE WHAT WE'VE SEEN BEFORE, WHICH IS BASICALLY NOT WHAT HE'S WANTING.
THIS IS WHY HE WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD AND WE'RE NOT APPROVING A FINAL DESIGN.
THIS IS WHY HE NEEDS THE ZONING.
IF WE CAN BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY DO THREE, THERE'S A TON OF STEEP RELATIONS THAT PROBABLY WON'T EVEN MAKE IT POSSIBLE AND WE PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY WON'T BECAUSE I'M TELLING, THAT'S WHY I WAS TELLING YOU.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE DOING? ONCE YOU DIVIDE IT IN SIX, THE WHOLE DESIGN CHANGES, CORRECT? 'CAUSE THEN THE GUIDELINES, SO IT IS PROBABLY NOT IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO DIVIDE IT IN SIX, WHICH IS NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION TODAY.
THIS IS WHY I WAS ASKING YOU THOSE QUESTIONS TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE AWARE OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE NOT TRYING TO JOIN TWO OF THE BACK HOMES TO DO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A DOUBLE OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA DO BECAUSE THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS BUSINESS MODEL.
CORRECT? THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE END SOLUTION, WHICH WE'LL COME BACK TO WHEN YOU GET IT DENIAL OR WHEN YOU FIGURE OUT THAT YOUR DESIGN DOESN'T WORK.
SO THAT'S WHY I'M MAKING SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND IF YOU GO AND GET ALL THIS ZONING CHANGE, EVERYTHING CHANGES.
WELL, BUT I, ONE THING TO, I'LL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE DENIAL FOR THAT REASON, BUT ONE THING TO BE CLEAR IS HE CAN STILL GO TO ZONING AND MAKE THE SAME REQUEST AND COME BACK WITH THE SAME DESIGNS AND THEN NOTHING CHANGES REALLY.
BUT HE WON'T HAVE THE WEIGHT OF THIS COMMISSION BEHIND IT.
IT'S JUST, IT'S NO WEIGHT HERE.
WE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN ACTION FROM US AND THAT'S ALL WE'RE GOING TO DO HERE AND THEN MOVE FORWARD.
IT'S NO WAIT, IT'S WHETHER IT'S APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL, DOESN'T MATTER.
IT IS A MOTION FOR DENIAL ON THE FLOOR PLEASE.
MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? SINO? AYE.
MM-HMM
OH, MR. OCHOA, IF YOU DO WANT TO REQUEST A UH, DRC WITH THROUGH STAFF AND HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION WITH SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO.
UM, THAT WAS THE LAST CASE ON THE AGENDA.