* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] GOOD MORNING. UH, I'M JACK UP MOORE AND I'M THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS ADVISORY BOARD MEETING. AND I'M CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER AT, UH, 10 32 ON JULY 2ND, 2025. UH, I THINK, UH, WE USUALLY DO A, A, UH, ROLL CALL. WELL BEFORE ROLL CALL. DON'T WE HAVE TO DO THE COMMENTARY? COMMENTARY? THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. IT'S, AND THEN WE'LL DO ROLL CALL. BRIAN, THANK YOU, THOUGH. THAT IS THE POWER PRESENTATION. SPANISH INTERPRETATION THING. DO I NEED TO READ? GOOD MORNING. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, COULD WE DO THE ROLL CALL NOW, PLEASE? JACK UP MORE. PARDON ME HERE. COULD BARELY HEAR YOU. OKAY. JACK UP MORE HERE. LOUIS FARAS. HERE. JEFF BYER. SCOTT BERGER. HERE. JOHN MARTIN. HERE. GREGORY MCFARLAND? HERE. ADRIAN CONTRERA. SPENCER RAMSELL. HERE. GEORGE SALIVA. PRESENT. EDUARDO DEL TORO? HERE. GARY KONZ. ROBERT HANLEY. HERE. LON CULBERTSON SPEAKING. MICHAEL RUST. MARK ROSS? HERE. BRIAN SMITH? HERE. JOE LAOS. WILLIAM BURRIS. KAREN CARPENTER. HERE. FRANK LEY. GOOD JOB. A QUORUM IS PRESENT. I OKAY. YES. I WAS JUST SEEING, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? OKAY, THANK YOU. DO THE MEETING MINUTES INDIVIDUALLY OR BOTH TOGETHER? THE, WHAT DID THE MEETING MINUTES, WHICH IS INDIVIDUALLY, BECAUSE THERE'S TWO OF THEM ARE DOING, YEAH, WE HAVE TWO SETS OF MINUTES THAT I HAD, BUT ON HERE, IT'S ONLY SHOWING FOR THE, UH, UH, DECEMBER 6TH. OR YOU WANNA DO THESE INDIVIDUALLY OR TOGETHER? THE NOVEMBER 15TH. THAT'S YOUR PLEASURE. ALRIGHT, LET'S, UH, CAN WE REVIEW BOTH, UH, SETS OF MINUTES FOR NOVEMBER 15TH, 2024 AND DECEMBER 6TH, 2024? UH, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. UNLESS THERE'S ANY CHANGES OR MODIFICATIONS, I MOVE APPROVAL OF BOTH THE, UH, NOVEMBER 15TH, 2024 AND DECEMBER 6TH, 2024. MEETING MINUTES OF THIS COMMITTEE. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION CHANGES, ET CETERA. EXCUSE ME. WHO WAS THE SECOND? WE DID HAVE A SECOND. YEAH. THANK YOU MR. MARTIN, DID YOU GET IT? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL AGAINST MOTION PASSES. HI, GOOD MORNING. UM, I'LL TAKE A SECOND TO INTRODUCE MYSELF. I'M YOUR NEW BOARD LIAISON WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I'M RACHEL PARRISH. I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN ME VIA EMAIL. UH, ROBERT IS GONNA BE HECKLING ME MOST OF THE TIME HERE. UM, POR HAS DEALT WITH ME MORE THAN ANY OF Y'ALL HAVE BEEN FORCED TO, SO I APPRECIATE Y'ALL. UM, AND I WILL BE YOUR POINT OF CONTACT HERE FOR THIS BOARD NOW. SO OUR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO INVOLVES A 60 DAY SUSPENSION OF THE PLUMBING REGISTRATION FOR MR. JUAN OLIVAREZ. DOES PRONOUNCE THAT RIGHT, UH, WITH ANY TIME PLUMBING DATED JUNE 12TH, 2025, UM, WE DENIED THE, OR WE SUSPENDED THE RES REGISTRATION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OUTLINED IN SECTION 10 DASH FIVE A OF THE CITY CODE. I WANTED TO START WITH A TIMELINE OF HOW THIS DEVELOPED. UH, GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THE BACKGROUND ON THIS. IN APRIL 2ND, WE ISSUED A 30 DAY SUSPENSION. THIS IS NOT THE ONE BEING APPEALED. THIS IS JUST THE HISTORY. THE 30 DAY SUSPENSION WAS ISSUED FOR FAILING TO PROPERLY PERMIT AND INSPECT PLUMBING WORK AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION. UM, BUT THAT LEADS INTO THE FACT THAT THIS IS NOW A 60 DAY SUSPENSION. THAT'S WHY IT'S RELEVANT TO THIS CASE. IN MAY 29TH, UH, OF THIS YEAR, THE SENIOR PLUMBING INSPECTOR [00:05:01] WENT TO ONE 15 HARDIMAN, UH, TO DO A ROUGH IN INSPECTION AND FOUND UNLICENSED AND UNREGISTERED CONTRACTORS THERE. THIS IS THE REASON FOR THE, THE SUSPENSION THAT WAS ISSUED ON JUNE 12TH, 2025. AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT IS BEING APPEALED. TODAY WE HAVE A COPY OF THE SUSPENSION OF REGISTRATION FOR THE 30 DAYS. AGAIN, THIS ONE IS NOT THE ONE BEING APPEALED. THIS IS THE ONE GIVEN FOR HISTORY. AND I'VE SUMMARIZED THE INSPECTOR'S NOTES FROM THE DAY IN QUESTION AT ONE 15 HARDIMAN. HE, HE DESCRIBED AS GOING TO THE LOCATION FOR A ROUGHIN AND TOP OUT INSPECTION BEGAN THE INSPECTION WITH MULTIPLE INDICATORS INDICATING THAT PLUMBING WORK WAS BEING DONE, INCLUDING PLUMBING FIXTURES BEING LOCATED ON SITE IN OPEN BOXES AND BEING USED. THERE WERE TWO CONTRACTORS, A MALE AND FEMALE INSTALLING A SHOWER VALVE AT THE TIME. HE ASKED THEM IF THEY WERE PLUMBERS AND REQUESTED TO SEE A PLUMBING LICENSE. THERE WAS A LANGUAGE BARRIER. THE TWO ONLY SPOKE SPANISH. THE WOMAN AFTER THAT LEFT, UH, WE WERE NOT ABLE TO GET ANY INFORMATION REGARDING HER, BUT THE MALE STAYED. HIS NAME WAS CARLOS. HE ASKED, UH, GOT ANOTHER PERSON ON SITE TO COME UP AND PROVIDE THE TRANSLATION. UH, HE WENT AND CALLED HIS BOSS, HIS BOSS, UH, MIGUEL. UH, THEY CALLED HIM AND HE SAID THAT HE WORKED FOR SOMEONE NAMED MATTE MARTINEZ. AND MARTINEZ IS THE ONE THAT THEY CALLED AND SAID HE WORKED FOR ANYTIME PLUMBING. WE THEN CALLED ANYTIME PLUMBING, WHO CONFIRMED THAT MARTINEZ DID WORK. AND THEY, UH, HE IS ONE OF THEIR EMPLOYEES. I HAVE THE PERMIT INFORMATION IN HERE. THIS IS THE PERMIT FOR THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION, UH, PULLED BY ANYTIME PLUMBING AND THE RELEVANT CODE SECTIONS, THE SECTION 10 DASH ONE 18 A IS THE ONE REQUIRING THE PLUMBING LICENSE TO DO WORK ON SITE. I'LL GIVE YOU A SECOND ON THIS ONE. AND THAT THESE PLUMBING LICENSE NEED TO BE REGISTERED WITH THE CITY. ONE 16 IS THE CITY OF REGISTRATION AND INSURANCE SECTION, BUT IT HAS THE QUALIFICATIONS OF CONTRACTORS, AGAIN, THAT THE PLUMBING, UH, LICENSES REQUIRED TO DO THE WORK, UH, ON THE PERMIT AND THE CANCELLATION AND SUSPENSION OF CITY LICENSES CAN BE DONE IF THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE PROVISIONS OF THIS CHAPTER. THIS IS THE 60 DAY SUSPENSION LETTER. IT SHOULD BE IN YOUR PACKET. AND THAT IS THE END OF OUR PRESENTATION. AS FAR AS THE SUSPENSION, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, I CAN HEAR THEM NOW. OKAY. UM, AND THEN I WILL SEE THE MICROPHONE TO MR. OLI. THANK YOU. WELL, THE FIRST TIME I'VE BEEN IN THIS APPEAL NEVER HAD AN APPEAL IN MY, AFTER 60 YEARS IN BUSINESS. NEVER BEEN IN THIS SITUATION. SIR. COULD YOU TELL JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS? UM, JUAN J OLIVAREZ. THANK YOU. LINE'S NUMBER M TWO EIGHT. TWO TWO. UH, YOU'RE GONNA ASK QUESTIONS OR SHOULD I NO, GO AHEAD. YOU CAN CONTINUE. YOU DON'T NEED TO TELL US YOUR LICENSE NUMBER'S FINE. ME. WELL, AS, UH, THE LADY SAYS, INSPECTOR JOE HERNANDEZ SHOWED UP FOR MY TOP OUT INSPECTION. AND, UH, HE GOT ALL THOSE PEOPLE DOING SOME WORK. I TOLD JOE, MR. HERNANDEZ IS MY, IS THE ONE TRUCKS OUT THERE. YOU SEE, I GOT BIG OLD LETTERS WITH MY PHONE NUMBER, MY LICENSE, AND ONE, MY TRUCKS ARE OUT THERE IN THE, IN THE PARK ON THE PARKING LOT. NO, THEN THEY'RE, NONE OF MY PEOPLE GIMME A MINUTE. AND I INVESTIGATE. WHO ARE THEY? THE THREE PEOPLE? UH, I GUESS HE, YOU YOU RUSHED IT. AND I SAID, I CALLED HIM BACK. UH, TWO HOURS, TWO HOURS LATER. SHE, I, I INVESTIGATED. I CAN ASK, TELL YOU ALL THOSE QUESTIONS. HE SAYS, IT'S TOO LATE. I ALREADY DID THE PAPERWORK. IT'S OUTTA MY HANDS. AND THAT'S HOW I GOT IN TROUBLE. WELL, ANYWAY, I INVESTIGATED AND [00:10:01] THE, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE WORKING THERE WERE JC WORKERS. THIS IS MR. SAUL RAMIRO SALGADO, MY NAME. HE IS A, HE IS A JC ON THE JOB. AND, UH, THEY WERE THE PEOPLE, THEY WERE HIS PEOPLE. THEY WERE LOWERING A, A SHOWER HAT WITHOUT MY CONCERN. AND THAT'S HOW THEY GOT CAUGHT. AND I HAD, AT THAT TIME, I HAD AN INSPECTION COMING AND JOE, AND THEN THEY SHOWED UP AT, AT THAT TIME. SURE. GO AHEAD ROBERT. THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY. BEFORE I GET TOO FAR, WHAT IS JC, ARE THEY A PLUMBING COMPANY OR WHO ARE WHO'S JC SIR? NO, I, I, I AM, UM, GEN, I THINK HE MEANS, I THINK HE MEANS GENERAL CONTRACTOR. OKAY. I'M NOT GENERAL CONTRACTOR, BUT I'M THE OWNER. OH, OKAY. I OWNED THE PROPERTY. AND SO IT WAS YOUR PEOPLE, NOT MR. VARS PEOPLE? YES. IT WAS A FRAME DOING THE PLUMBING, A FRAMER. IT WAS, YEAH. THEY WERE MOVING AHEAD. UH, SHOWER HEAD. THEY WERE MOVING IT UP BECAUSE IT WAS A LITTLE LOW. OKAY. ALRIGHT. BUT I DIDN'T, I I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WAS AN INSPECTION OR ANYTHING. I DIDN'T KNOW I COULDN'T DO IT. YEAH. I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS EASY. JUST, JUST MOVE IT UP A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW. OKAY. I WAS JUST TRYING TO, BASED ON YOUR DIALOGUE, AND I WANTED TO PUT THE RIGHT PIECES TOGETHER. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD. SO THAT'S HOW I GOT IN TROUBLE. UM, UH, RAMIRO HERE, HE HAD HIS PEOPLE WORKING. I, I GOT AFTER HIM. I TOLD 'EM, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. YOU'RE SURE TO CALL ME. NOW WHAT? I SEND MY PLUMBERS TO RAISE THAT SHOWER HEAD. I, I HAD THEM SPEAKER COMING AND, UM, THEY GOT CAUGHT. I MEAN, INSPECTOR WAS JUST DOING YOUR JOB AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT, UM, I TOLD 'EM TO GIMME TIME. I'M INVESTIGATE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH WHO THOSE PEOPLE. WELL, BY THE TIME I CALLED HIM BACK, HE SAID IT WAS OUT OF HIS HANDS. THIS IS GREG MCFARLAND. SO JUST TO SUMMARIZE, YOU WERE NOT WORKING ON THE JOB AT ALL? NO, SIR. I WASN'T. OR, OR, AND YOU, MY, MY PLUMBERS, JOHN MARTIN. UH, THIS IS JOHN MARTIN. SO WERE YOUR PLUMBERS ON SITE THAT DAY, OR CAN YOU GIMME AN IDEA OF WHEN YOUR PLUMBERS WERE ON THE PROJECT WHERE THEY WERE, WAS DOING A SERVICE CALL PROPERLY, DOING A SERVICE CALL? I, I, I DON'T HAVE NO, UM, RIGHT NOW, I, I'M STILL, RIGHT NOW, I DON'T HAVE NO NEW JOBS OR ANYTHING. I WAS DOING JUST LITTLE SERVICE CALLS. THAT'S HOW MAIN, UH, KEEP, KEEP UP. RIGHT NOW I GOT SIX TRUCKS AND FIVE A PARK, BECAUSE IT'S LOW. IT'S MARK. ROSS, CAN WE GO BACK TO THE SLIDE, THE INSPECTOR'S STATEMENT? SO WHO IS CARLOS AND WHO IS MIGUEL? UH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I LIKE TO KNOW THE GUY, THE GUY, THE PEOPLE JUST PANIC AND STARTED MAYBE TUNING NAMES ALL OVER THE PLACE. SMART MARTINEZ. I'D LIKE TO KNOW THAT TOO. YEAH, TO ME. ANYBODY WHO, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, C CARLOS AND MIGUEL ARE THE GUYS WHO, UM, WERE THERE AT THE SITE WORKING, WORKING FOR ME. BUT, UM, MIGUEL, UM, MARTIN, I DON'T KNOW WHO THE MARTIN IS. I DON'T KNOW THIS MOVIE. BE CONFUSION IN THE NAMES, BUT, UM, MIGUEL, I KNOW WHO HE'S, HE WAS, HE, HE WORKS, HE HE WAS DOING SOME WORK THERE AND CARLOS AS WELL. PEOPLE THAT I SENT THAT I HAVE WORKING THERE, THEY WERE CLEARING THE AREA AND THEY WERE, UH, DOING, UH, THEY MOVE THE, UH, THE SHOWER HEAD THAT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT I COULD, I MEAN, IT, I I UNDERSTAND IT'S MY MISTAKE BECAUSE I THOUGHT WAS EASY JUST TO MOVE IT. I SHOULD HAVE CALLED MR. OLIVER. BUT I, I, THE TRUTH IS I DIDN'T. SPENCER RAMEL, I HAD A QUESTION FOR YOU. IF YES SIR, IF THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR WAS THE ONE MOVING UP THE SHOWER HEADS, DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM GIVING THE NAMES OF THE ACTUAL PLUMBERS THAT DID [00:15:01] THE WORK PREVIOUS THERE, THAT ACTUALLY DID THE TOP OUT? I'M ASSUMING THEY DID IT THE WEEK BEFORE. I MEAN, DO WE GOT A NAME OF THOSE? TOKYO PLUMBERS? THE BURNING OR, OR TRADESMEN AND THEN THE YEAH. APPRENTICE'S NAMES AND THEN THEIR LICENSES AS WELL. VERIFY. I, I DIDN'T BRING, VERIFY THAT THEM WITH, I DIDN'T BRING THAT WITH ME. BUT, UH, TOKYO IS A TRADE MAN LICENSE. I GOT TWO, TWO PEOPLE WORKING. I'M THAT SLOW. I LAID UP, I LAID OFF EVERYBODY. IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE THAT VERIFICATION FROM THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY ACTUALLY DID THE WORK, THE, THE WORK PRIOR TO THAT. YES, SIR. I CAN PROVIDE THAT. THIS IS LUIS . I GOT A QUESTION FOR THE, UH, CITY, UH, IN PARTICULAR THE INSPECTOR THAT, UH, UH, WROTE THE NOTES, IS IT VERIFIED THAT THE ONLY WORK THAT HE SAW BEING DONE WAS ON THE, UH, RAISING OF THE SHOWER HEAD? OR WAS THERE ANY OTHER WORK BEING DONE DURING THAT TIME ALSO? WERE THERE FITTINGS OUT? WAS THERE MATERIAL OUT? DID IT LOOK LIKE THAT THEY WERE WORKING ON OTHER AREAS OF THE HOUSE? I HAVE, UM, PICTURES REGARDING THIS, THE WORK THAT WAS ALREADY DONE. UM, WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THIS PROPERTY HAD STARTED WITHOUT PERMITS. AND SO THERE WAS A GOOD AMOUNT OF PLUMBING WORK THAT WAS DONE BEFORE PLUMBING PERMITS WERE PULLED. UH, WE DON'T HAVE RECORD OF WHO WAS DOING THAT AT THE TIME OF THIS. SO YES, QUITE A BIT OF PLUMBING WAS ALREADY DONE. UH, WITH THIS ONE, THE ONLY ITEMS THAT WERE SEEN BEING DONE WAS THE FIXTURE ITSELF WAS BEING WORKED ON AT THE TIME. AND THEN THE REST OF THE PLUMBING FITTINGS THAT WERE NEARBY, UM, IMPLYING THAT ADDITIONAL PLUMBING WORK WAS DONE. BEYOND THAT, CAN WE SEE THE PICTURE? UM, HELLO, MY NAME IS JOE HERNANDEZ. I'M THE CITY INSPECTORS SENIOR, UH, LICENSED T TEXAS STATE BOARD OF PLUMBING. 42 0 9 IS MY ID. UH, I WAS THERE ON SITE. UH, I DID SEE FITTINGS, FIXTURE, UH, UH, FITTINGS THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN JUST THROWN OUT TO GET WHATEVER FITTINGS YOU NEED AT THE BUCKET. THAT'S KIND OF LET ME KNOW THAT THEY WERE LIKE PLUMBERS WERE HERE. WENT UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR. UM, AND THAT'S WHEN I SAW TWO INDIVIDUALS. THEY WERE INSTALLING A, UH, A SHOWER VALVE. UM, THEY DID STATE THAT THEY WERE MOVING ONE DOWN, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT MY PICTURES, THERE WAS NO, THERE WAS NOTHING THERE. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE DIDN'T HAVE THE, UH, DROP EAR ON THERE. SO THEY WERE INSTALLING THAT. AND THAT'S WHERE, UH, THEY WERE THERE ON THAT LADDER. I ASKED, HEY, CAN I SEE HIS LICENSE? UM, THEY DIDN'T, THERE WAS A LANGUAGE BARRIER. THEY WENT AHEAD AND THAT'S WHEN THEY, UH, WALKED OFF. UH, GEORGE SALIBA. DID YOU ACTUALLY SEE THEM WORKING ON THE POTABLE WATER SIDE OF THAT VALVE? YES, I DID SEE THEM SCREWING THE, UH, THE SHOWER VALVE. AND THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO ADJUST THE, UH, SHOWER HEAD OR THE, UH, THE HEAD. BUT THAT'S WHEN I NOTICED THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A, A DROP EAR. I CAN UNDERSTAND IF HE WAS SAYING IF HE WAS GOING TO PUT IT IN THERE, THE DROP EAR, THEY'LL UNSCREW IT, MOVE IT WHERE THEY WANT, BUT THERE WASN'T A DROP EAR INSTALLED. SO I'M LIKE, GUYS, Y'ALL OBVIOUSLY DOING PLUMBING. IS KAREN, UH, GEORGE COMPANY OR GEORGE PLUMBING OR GEORGE SLEEP AGAIN? SO, SO YOU DIDN'T, YOU YOU SAW THEM ACTUALLY, OR YOU, YOU SAW THEM WORKING ON THE POTABLE WATER SIDE. OKAY. BUT YET THEY SAY THEY WERE JUST RAISING THE SHOWER AHEAD. SO DID, SO DID THEY HAVE PRESS TOOLS ON THE FLOOR AND EVERYTHING? YES. THEY HAD THEIR PRESS TOOLS RIGHT THERE WITH THEM. AND ALL THE FITTINGS WERE DUMPED OUT ON THE FIRST FLOOR. UM, THEY DIDN'T REALLY TELL ME NOTHING BECAUSE THERE WAS A LANGUAGE BARRIER. THERE WAS AN INDIVIDUAL ON THE FIRST FLOOR WHEN THEY STARTED WALKING OUT TO THE SECOND FLOOR. I WAS LIKE, HEY GUYS, I NEED TO SEE HOW'S LICENSE. I'M AN INSPECTOR. AND THE LADY, SHE JUST WENT OUT, TOOK OFF IN HER CAR. BUT THEN AN INDIVIDUAL STAYED AROUND AND THE OTHER GENTLEMAN THAT WAS THERE, I WAS LIKE, HEY, CAN YOU TALK TO HIM? AND THAT'S WHEN THEY STARTED TALKING. HE WAS TRANSLATING FOR HIM, WHAT'S GOING ON? AND HE'S SAYING, NO, THEY'RE FRAMERS. THEY'RE JUST MOVING THE, UH, THE SHOWER HEAD. THEY'RE MOVING IT UP OR, OR, OR LOWERING IT. GEORGE, SLEEP AGAIN. I'M SORRY, KAREN, GO AHEAD. UM, SO YET THEY HAD CALLED IN A TOP OUT INSPECTION. IS THAT RIGHT, MR. VEZ? YES. AND IF THAT WAS THE CASE, THE SHOWER VALVE SHOULD HAVE BEEN INSTALLED ALREADY. IT WAS THE THEY MOVED IT, THE SHOWER HAD WAS INSTALLED ALREADY. YOU MEAN THEY RELOCATED THE WHOLE SHOWER VALVE? MAYBE THEY DID. I TOLD WHAT I TOLD MR. [00:20:02] S RAM RO THE, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON? HE SAID, WELL, WE GOTTA MOVE THAT THE SHOWER HEAD AND MAY MAYBE WE GOT MOVE THE VALVE A LITTLE BIT THE WAY YOU GOT IN TROUBLE THERE. SO AGAIN, UH, I'LL DIRECT THE TO THE INSPECTOR. HI, MY NAME'S JOSEPH BRUNO. I'M THE STRIKE TEAM BUILDING CHIEF. SO ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WAS ASKED OUT THERE WHEN, UH, SENIOR INSPECTOR JOSE WAS OUT THERE WAS, WHO WAS MARTIN MARTINEZ? THAT'S WHO THEY GOT ON THE PHONE. AND WE KNOW MR. MARTINEZ IN THE PAST. HE DOES WORK FOR ANYTIME PLUMBING. AND HE DID VERIFY. THOSE ARE MY GUYS. I WENT OFFSITE. SO THAT'S WHY THEY RAN. SO THEY DID RUN FROM US. AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE SAYING IF YOU'RE NOT GUILTY OR YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, DON'T RUN TALK TO US. WE UNDERSTAND MISTAKES HAPPEN, BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. THEY RAN AND THEN THE TIMELINE IS FAIR. IT'S THE 29TH. WE DIDN'T WRITE THE LETTER UNTIL LATER. AMIN DIDN'T AM MEAN, TAMMA DID NOT WRITE AND SIGN IT THE SAME DAY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE GIVE THEM TIME. I CONTACTED ANYTIME PLUMBING AS WELL AND HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THEM. SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE JUST SAID, HEY, WE'RE NOT TALKING TO YOU GUYS. THEY, THEY DID GIVE US REASONS ON WHAT THEY FELT WAS GOING ON. IT JUST DIDN'T ADD UP FOR US. SO THAT, THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT WE HAD. MR. MARTINEZ. SO I ASKED A QUESTION EARLIER, WHO IS MARTIN? MARTIN MARTINEZ. AND YOU SAID THERE'S ABOUT THREE GUYS. THEY ALL, THEY GET CAUGHT OR SOMETHING AND THEY PUT ME, THEY PUT ME ON A, A WORK PARENT ANYTIME. WHY THEY DO THAT? I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW MARTINEZ HAS DONE IT TWICE. I MEAN, YOU TOLD THAT MARTINEZ WAS A, AN . I DON'T KNOW HIM, BUT I KNOW THAT HE HAS, UH, SAY THAT HE WORKS FOR ME. I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE MAN. SO AGAIN, IS THIS MARTINEZ YOUR EMPLOYEE? BUT HE IS NOT, UH, MARTINEZ. IT IS MIGUEL. MIGUEL MARTINEZ. THAT'S HIS NAME. MIGUEL MARTINEZ. BUT THE POINT OF IT, THIS IS YOUR EMPLOYEE YEAH. IS CLAIMING HE'S AN EMPLOYEE OF MR. OLIVERES. UH, IS THAT WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S BEING SAID RIGHT NOW? MIGUEL IS WORKING FOR, MIGUEL IS WORK. HE WAS WORKING FOR ME THERE. YES, BUT MARTIN, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW MARTIN. OKAY. SO IT'S DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS. THE SAME LAST NAME IS PROBABLY A CONFUSION THERE, BUT IS MIGUEL MARTINEZ, THAT'S HIS NAME. SO WHEN I WAS THERE, I DID ASK THE GUY, CAN YOU HAVE HIM LET ME TALK TO HIS BOSS? YOU KNOW, I WANT TO KNOW WHO THIS GUY IS. CARLOS THEN SAID, HEY, I'M GONNA TALK TO YOU, WHICH WAS MIGUEL. SO I GO, HEY MIGUEL, WHO ARE YOU? THESE ARE NOT YOUR ONLY I. AND I STATED, WHAT WAS STATED THERE? YOU'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO HAVE A LICENSED PLUMBER. HE GOES, NO, NO, NO. I WORK FOR THE PLUMBER. AND I GO, BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER. AND THEN HE GOES, NO, NO, NO. AND I GO, WHO DO YOU, WHO, WHO DO YOU? HE GOES, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THE NUMBER AND YOU CAN CALL HIM. I GO, WHO AM I CALLING? HE GOES, I AM NOW I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THE NUMBER TO MARTIN MARTINEZ. HE'S THE ONE THAT HIRED US. SO THEN CARLOS WAS ON SITE. HE CALLED HIS BOSS. 'CAUSE USUALLY THE, WHEN YOU GO UP TO HIM AND SAY, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON? HOLD ON, LET ME, I'M GONNA CALL MY BOSS. ALWAYS. THE FIRST THING THAT HAPPENS, HE CALLED HIS BOSS, WHICH WAS MIGUEL. MIGUEL THEN SAID, NO, NO, NO. I GO, ARE YOU THE PLUMBER? NO, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THE NUMBER TO THE PLUMBER. HE THEN GAVE ME THE NUMBER TO MARTINEZ. MARTINEZ. I SPOKE TO MARTINEZ MARTINEZ. AND I GO, HEY MAN, WHAT'S GOING ON? HE GOES, NO, NO, IT'S MY JOB. I HIRED THESE GUYS. AND I GO, DUDE, THEY DON'T HAVE LICENSE. WELL, NO, NO, NO. AND I GO, WHO DO YOU WORK FOR? WHO'S YOUR MASTER PLUMBER? HE THEN STATED THAT HE WORKS FOR ANYTIME PLUMBING. I THEN HAD A CONVERSATION WITH ANYTIME PLUMBING. I GO, THIS IS A GUY THAT'S LINKING YOU TO HIM, MARTIN MARTINEZ. IT ALL COMES BACK TO THIS GENTLEMAN. HE'S SAYING THAT HE IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WORKS FOR YOU. HE THEN HIRED THESE OTHER GUYS TO DO THE THE WORK. TO DO THE WORK ACCORDING TO. UM, AND DID SOMEONE FROM ANY TIME PLUMBING VERIFY THAT MARTIN MARTINEZ WOULD WWO WORK FOR THEM? OR WAS A SUBCONTRACTOR OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? YEAH. THIS IS JOSEPH GAN. YES. WE VERIFIED IT. WE'VE ALSO, WE'VE ALSO CAUGHT MR. MARTINEZ AT ANYTIME PLUMBING BEFORE WE JUST GAVE THEM A WARNING. THAT TIME WE TALKED TO THEM ABOUT IT. WE DIDN'T ISSUE ANY SUSPENSION. THAT'S WHY DANNY FORKEY FROM THE PLUMBING TEAM IS HERE AS WELL. 'CAUSE HE'S ALSO CAUGHT THEM. AND THEY WERE THE PART OF THE ORIGINAL SUSPENSION THE FIRST TIME. THAT WAS ACTUALLY THROUGH THE PLUMBING TEAM, FINDING THEM ON SITE, WORKING WITHOUT PERMITS AND INSPECTION. SO MR. MARTINEZ DOES WORK FOR HIM. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE Y'ALL CAUGHT AT THEM TOTAL? UH, JUST THIS YEAR. YEAH, JUST THIS YEAR. THREE. YOU, ARE YOU TALKING THAT, THAT 30 DAY SUSPENSION I HAD, UH, DANNY PORT CAUGHT ME. MY MA WERE DIGGING RIGHT THERE BY THE CLOSE TO THE [00:25:01] CITY CONNECTION. I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS GONNA NEED A PERMIT OR NOT. WHEN HE SHOWED UP, I TOLD HIM I, I'M, IT'S A REPAIR. UH, IF I NEED A PERMIT, I, OF COURSE I I'LL RUN AND GET ONE. UH, I DIDN'T WANNA APPEAL THAT ONE. SO, SO YOU GOT THE EARLIER ONE. IF I HEARD CORRECTLY, THIS JOB THAT WE'RE APPEALING THE SUSPENSION ON, THEY STARTED PLUMBING WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT. YOU WENT AND GOT A PERMIT. THIS ONE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? YES. NO, I GOT PERMIT WHEN I STARTED. THERE WAS PLUMBING STARTED. SO YOU CAN SEE THAT. NO SAYING IT WAS, IT WAS, THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK DONE ALREADY WAS WITH THE STRIKE TEAM. WHO WAS DOING THAT WORK? I DON'T KNOW SIR. NO, WE HAD SOME OTHER CONTRACT. YEAH. WHEN I WAS PERMITTED, CORRECT ME FOR THIS JOB, WHEN I GOT THE CONTRACT, THE PLUMBING WAS ALREADY PERFORMED. SOME SO YOU'RE SAYING SOMEBODY ELSE HAD STARTED PLUMBING? YEAH, SOMEBODY ELSE. AND I CAME TO A PICTURE WHEN IT WAS ALREADY DONE, SOME OF IT, AND I TOLD, UH, JAY-Z, THAT THAT'S YOU, THAT, THAT JOB ON THE STRIKE TEAM. HE SAID HE KNOWS THAT. I TOLD HIM, WE, I'LL FINISH IT FOR YOU AND GET A PERMIT. SO IS THE, THE OWNER JACK TMORE HERE, DID, DID YOU HIRE THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE THAT CAME IN AND DID IT WITHOUT THE PERMIT? NO. UM, I BOUGHT THE PROPERTY THE WAY IT WAS AND THERE WAS ALREADY SOME, UH, PLUMBING PERFORMED IN, ACTUALLY, THERE WAS ALREADY, UM, A KITCHEN IN THE TOP FLOOR. IT WAS ALREADY SOME WORK DONE IN, IN, IN THAT PROPERTY WHEN I BOUGHT IT. SO WHEN, WHEN I PULLED MY PERMITS FOR, UM, CHANGING THE WINDOWS AND GENERAL, UH, CONSTRUCTION, UH, I WAITED FOR, FOR, FOR THE PLUMBING FOR LATER BECAUSE, UH, I, I NEEDED TO HIRE SOMEONE WITH A LICENSE. SO WHAT I DID WAS, I WAS CHANGING, I WAS WORKING WITH, WITH, UH, THE PERMIT THAT I PULLED AND THE PULLOUT AND, UH, SOME INSPECTOR CAME. I, I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS, I WASN'T THERE. BUT, UM, THEY TOLD ME THAT I, I, I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, BUT I, I PULL LIKE PERMIT FOR FIVE OR THREE WINDOWS AND IT WAS MORE WINDOWS, THE ONES THAT, THAT NEEDED TO BE CHANGED. SO THEY PUT ME LIKE A STOP WORK. SO RIGHT AWAY MY GUYS CALLED ME. I CAME BACK TO THE, UM, TO, TO, TO THE OFFICE. AND I ADDED EVERYTHING THAT I NEEDED TO ADD THAT THEY ASKED ME THAT I HAD TO DO SO, WHICH I DID. AND THEN AFTER THAT, I HIRED, UH, PLUMBING A PLUMBER, MR. EZ, TO PERFORM THE WHOLE WORK FOR, FOR THE BUILDING. THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. UH, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. RACHEL, CAN YOU SHOW US THE PHOTOGRAPHS AGAIN? IT SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS A RE THEY'RE SAYING IT'S A REPAIR, BUT IT LOOKED LIKE IT'S A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION. YEAH, IT'S, IT, IT, IT'S A REPAIR. BUT, UM, THE, UM, REPAIR. OH YES. OH, I'M SORRY. SO THESE ARE FROM THE FIRST INSPECTION WHERE IT WAS, UM, WHERE THE INVESTIGATION STARTED FOR DOING WORK WITHOUT PERMITS. RIGHT. THIS IS JOSEPH BERNAL AGAIN. YEAH. SO WHEN WE GET THESE HOMES, YOU GOTTA REMEMBER, WE DON'T KNOW HALF THE STUFF THAT GOES ON IN THEM ANYMORE. SO WE GET 'EM HALFWAY THROUGH. UH, I'M NOT SURE IF THE OWNER WAS AN INVESTOR, THEY BOUGHT THIS PROJECT, BUT WE ALWAYS GET THEM WHEN WORK IS ALREADY STARTED. AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM OUR PHOTOS, IT'S MORE THAN WHAT THEY PULLED ON THEIR INITIAL PERMIT. SO IF HE GETS HIS BUILDING PERMIT AND THERE'S ALREADY PLUMBING WORK OR ELECTRICAL WORK OR WHATEVER STARTED, THEY'RE GONNA GET CITED FOR THAT WORK BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY THERE. SO WE DON'T KNOW THE TIMELINE OF WHEN THAT STARTED. AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE FIGHTING FOR ON THIS ONE. IT'S FOR AFTER THE PERMITS HAVE BEEN PULLED. 'CAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS, MR. OLIVAREZ UNDERSTANDS THAT THERE'S WORK ALREADY TAKING PLACE. SO HE'S COMING IN, TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL THAT OLD WORK. 'CAUSE IT STILL NEEDS TO BE PERMITTED. PLUS ANYTHING HE'S GONNA DO IN THE FUTURE, IT JUST SO HAPPENS HE GOT CAUGHT FOR THE FUTURE STUFF TOO. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. SO THE, THE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, THE, IT'S MARK ROSS, THE, THEY HAD LIKE A PRO PRESS MACHINE OUT THERE AND THE FITTINGS FOR THE PRO PRESS AND ALL THAT STUFF? UH, NO. I DO HAVE A PICTURE OF THE FITTINGS THAT THEY WERE USING, BUT THEY WERE THE, UH, THE, UH, PEX PRESS, JUST THE REGULAR ONES. IT WASN'T A PRO PRESS. UM, THEY HAD THAT ON THE, UH, ON ONE OF MY PHOTOS. AS SOON AS I WALK IN, YOU COULD SEE I'VE NEVER SEEN A SHEET ROCKER OR A FRAMER THAT HAS THAT KIND OF STUFF. NO, EXACTLY. I DIDN'T SEE, NOW THAT THEY SAID THEY WERE FRAMERS, I DIDN'T SEE NO GUNS. I MEAN, BEING IN CONSTRUCTION AS MUCH AS, AS OF, AS LONG AS IF I'VE BEEN IN IT, YOU CAN SEE CERTAIN THINGS. SO WHEN HE DID SAY NO, THEY'RE DOING THIS, I WAS LIKE, WELL THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. YOU CAN [00:30:01] SEE ALL THE FITTINGS AND ALL THE BOXES THERE. THERE'S EMPTY BAGS OF THINGS THAT THEY WERE USING OF THEIR PRO PRESS. THEY EMPTIED OUT ALL THE FITTINGS AND THAT LED ME TO BELIEVE THESE WERE PLUMBERS. SO AS WE DO IN ALL OUR INSPECTIONS, WHEN I'M THERE AS A PLUMBING INSPECTOR, I GO, HEY, CAN I SEE US LICENSE? ESPECIALLY WHEN I SEE THEM PHYSICALLY WORKING ON THE, UH, ON THE EQUIPMENT OR THE FIXTURES. WERE YOU ABLE TO LOOK IN THE BACK OF THE TRUCK AND SEE ANY KIND OF PLUMBING FITTINGS OR ON THE BACK OF THE TRUCK? NO. UH, THERE WAS NO, UH, IT WASN'T AN ANY TIME PLUMBING TRUCK. I, I DIDN'T SEE THAT AS WELL. UH, HE WAS CORRECT. THERE WASN'T AN ANYTIME PLUMBING VEHICLE THERE. IT WAS JUST THIS LADY WHO DROVE OFF AND THE, AND THE GENTLEMAN, CARLOS, HIS TRUCK THAT I DID MANAGE TO TAKE A PICTURE OF, UH, GEORGE SALIBA. WERE THERE ANY OTHER INFRACTIONS? WAS HIS PREVIOUS PLUMBING TOTALLY OUT CODE? UM, NO. WE WERE, WE WERE THERE. THAT WAS GONNA BE OUR, OUR FIRST ONE, OUR, OUR INITIAL TO THAT ONE. UM, HE WAS ON THE ADDRESS WAS ON STRIKE TEAM. SO WE WERE THERE TO, YOU CAN SEE THAT'S WHAT EVENTUALLY WHAT I SAW THERE THAT LED ME TO BELIEVE THOSE ARE FITTINGS AND THAT'S WHY. YEAH. SO BECAUSE THEY WERE, WE WERE ON SITE AND I SAW THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A LICENSE. I WENT AHEAD AND I COULD NOT PERFORM THE INSPECTION. THEY WEREN'T LICENSED THERE. I DID SEE THEM TOUCH EVERYTHING THAT CANCELED EVERYTHING. SO THAT'S WHEN I WENT AHEAD AND I SAID, HEY, WE CAN'T DO THIS INSPECTION. WE'RE NOT LICENSED HERE. I OBVIOUSLY SEE THAT UNLICENSED PEOPLE ARE THERE. THAT PICTURE RIGHT THERE TELLS IT ALL. LISTEN, SMOKING GUN. YES SIR. AND SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BASED UPON YOUR PHONE CALLS AND EVERYTHING YOU DID, THAT THIS GENTLEMAN WAS LIKE A SUBCONTRACTOR OR SOMETHING FOR ANY TIME PLUMBING. IS THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S HOW I TOOK IT. OKAY. UH, QUESTION. SO, SO WE'RE STILL BACK. THIS IS GREAT. WE'RE STILL AT THE POINT WHERE MR. OLIVERAS IS SAYING THIS IS NOT HIS EMPLOYEE. WE KNOW, UH, AND I'M SORRY I DIDN'T CATCH YOUR NAME. RAMIRO RAMIRO RAM RAM, UH, THAT YOU HAD AN EMPLOYEE WHO WAS ON SITE PERFORMING PLUMBING WORK. WELL, YEAH, THEY WERE MOVING. WERE MOVING, YES. AND, AND, AND I JUST, I'M GONNA ASK THIS QUESTION TO THE CITY. WHAT IS THE, WHAT IS THE CITY CODE REQUIREMENT? IS A PERMIT REQUIRED TO MOVE A FIXTURE? I KNOW IN SOME JURISDICTIONS I'VE DONE WORK IN, IT HAD TO MOVE MORE THAN 12 INCHES BEFORE A PERMIT WAS REQUIRED. SO IN SAN ANTONIO, YOU NEED A PERMIT TO TOUCH ANY PART OF THE PLUMBING SYSTEM. THEY DID HAVE A PERMIT. SO ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS STATE BOARD OF PLUMBING, THEY ALL RULES AND REGULATIONS STATE THAT TO DO ANY PLUMBING YOU NEED TO HAVE A PERMIT. THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT SAN ANTONIO DOES. WE ALSO HAVE IT IN OUR CHAPTER 10. THE ISSUE WASN'T THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PERMIT. THE ISSUE IS THAT PART OF WHAT THE TEXAS STATE BOARD OF PLUMBING, WHAT THEY REGULATE AND WHAT ACCEPTED SAN ANTONIO. WE WENT AHEAD AND WENT FROM THE INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE AND OUR CHAPTER 10 IS THAT ALL PLUMBING BE DONE BY A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL. AND THAT'S WHAT WE DIDN'T HAVE HERE. THEY WERE UNLICENSED. THEY DIDN'T SHOW ME THEIR CARD, THEY DIDN'T TELL ME ANYTHING. THEY REFUSED TO SPEAK TO ME. AND THAT'S WHERE WE GOT 'EM FOR. THAT'S WHERE I SAID, I HAVE TO STOP THIS INSPECTION HERE YOU ARE UNLICENSED PLUMBERS DOING WORK. AND THAT'S WHERE I STOPPED IT AND SAID, I NEED TO SEE Y'ALL'S A PLUMBING CARD. CAN I SAY SOMETHING REAL QUICK? UH, BRIAN? YES, GO AHEAD. BRIAN SMITH. SO I JUST KINDA WANNA BRING THIS AROUND AND JUST KIND OF, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF GOING AROUND, SO I JUST KIND OF WANNA MAKE SURE WHAT I'M HEARING AND SEE IF WE CAN KIND OF BRING THIS TO AHEAD. SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS ORIGINALLY WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE INVESTIGATING THAT THERE WAS A COUPLE GUYS ON THERE AND IT HAD TO GO UP THE, UP THE CHAIN A LITTLE BIT TO FINALLY GET TO SOME GUY. THAT GUY WAS SAID TO BE AT ANY TIME YOU CALLED ANY TIME. AND THEN THEY VERIFIED THAT THAT PERSON AT THAT TIME HAD WORKED. WHAT I'M HEARING NOW IS A DIFFERENT STORY I'M HEARING NOW, IT WAS THE OWNER'S PLUMBER THAT HAD HIRED TO DO THIS. SO IT SEEMS LIKE THE STORIES HAVE CHANGED, IF I'M LISTENING CORRECTLY, UM, OF WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY AND SUCH. AND AS FAR AS WHAT REGULATIONS, YES, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S UNDER HIS PERMIT AND HE WAS GETTING HIS INSPECTION. UM, BUT FROM WHAT I'M HEARING NOW, THE OWNER IS SAYING IT WAS MY GUYS, NOT HIS THAT WAS DOING IT. AND I'M THE ONE WHO'S RESPONSIBLE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CITY'S THING WOULD BE ON THAT, IF THAT IS CORRECT, BUT IT'S KIND OF STRANGE THAT SOMEHOW STORIES HAVE CHANGED IN LESS THAN 30 DAYS. I CAN I ADD TO THAT JACK MORE HERE JUST TO GO WITH THAT. RAMIRO, THOSE PARTS THAT THEY HAVE THIS PICTURE OF THAT'S ON HERE RIGHT NOW, ALL THOSE PARTS SITTING THERE, ALL THOSE PLUMBING PARTS, WHOSE PARTS ARE THEY? UM, I'M REALLY CAN'T GUARANTEE WHOSE PARTS ARE THEM, BUT I THINK THE, THE, THE PLUMBING SERVICE WAS WORKING THERE. SO THEY WERE LEAVING SOME, SOME TOOLS AND SOME SPARES WHEN THEY WERE WORKING. SO, UH, I COULDN'T GUARANTEE THEY WERE, THEY WERE THEM OR NOT. THE BRIAN SMITH [00:35:01] AGAIN. SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, WE WERE DOING A ROUGH IN INSPECTION, WHICH, WHICH, UM, ANYTIME PLUMBING WAS DOING, I'M STILL TALKING, I'M SORRY. WHICH ANYTIME PLUMBING WAS DOING THEN IT WAS THEIR INSPECTION. SO THEY HAD, THEY COULD HAVE HAD SOME PARTS STILL THERE FROM THEIR DOING THERE. THAT'S, BUT THE GUYS WERE MOVING A SHOWER HEAD UP AND THERE WAS THESE GUYS THAT HAPPENED AT THIS TIME THAT WAS GOING ON. UM, I KNOW IT LOOKS, I KNOW IT LOOKS BAD. IT IT DOES BECAUSE THERE WAS A STORY CONFIRMED WITH THE CITY FOR 30 DAYS AGO AND NOW IT'S DIFFERENT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE IT, IT'S DIFFICULT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND WHO'S TELLING THE TRUTH, WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON. I DON'T THOSE KIND OF THINGS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. MR. RAMELLE, I JUST WANT TO THROW OUT SOMETHING HERE. AND I, I MEAN I FEEL THAT THIS INSPECTION PROBABLY WAS CALLED IN EARLY WHERE SOMEONE SAID THIS WAS GONNA BE READY. OBVIOUSLY IT WASN'T READY THAT DAY, IT WAS READY SHOWED UP. MY QUESTION IS FOR INSPECTOR HERNANDEZ, HOW MUCH OF THAT TOP OUT RUFFIN WAS ACTUALLY COMPLETE, LIKE ON A PERCENTAGE WISE? WAS IT AT 95%, 80%? YOU KNOW, WHAT PERCENTAGE WAS ACTUALLY DONE COMPLETED? 'CAUSE IT WASN'T READY WHENEVER YOU GOT THERE. NO. UM, IF I HAVE TO SAY ANYTHING BESIDES THE SHOWER VALVES, IT DID SEEM LIKE IT WAS, IT WAS CALLED PREMATURELY. UM, THE VALVES WEREN'T IN YET. NOTHING WAS ON TEST. BUT BECAUSE I DID SEE THEM WORKING IS WHEN I STOPPED IT, I DIDN'T DO ANY OF THE INVESTIGATION. I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY SAY, THEY'RE GONNA MOVE IT. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT MY PICTURES, THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE DROP EARS IN THERE. THEY WERE GONNA HAVE TO ADD THAT, THAT IS A PLUMBING FIXTURE. YOU, I'VE, I'VE BEEN THROUGH CONSTRUCTIONS SINCE I'VE GRADUATED AND THEY COME IN, THEY UNSCREW AND THEY ADJUST IT. THEY DON'T CARRY AROUND THEIR OWN, UH, CRIMP TOOLS. THEY DON'T CARRY AROUND ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THAT WAS TO ME IN INDICATING THAT THEY WORKED ON IT. 'CAUSE THEY HAVE THAT STUFF THERE. UM, THE WAY ANYTIME PLUMBING GOT INVOLVED, YOU FIGURE WITHOUT THE VALVES NOT ON TEST, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY STILL HAD BOXES OF INSULATION. LOOKED LIKE STUFF NEEDED TO BE INSULATE. YEAH. THEY WERE NOT READY FOR INSPECTION. ABOUT 80% DONE. I WOULD EVEN SAY ABOUT 50%. NONE OF THE INSULATION AT BEST. YEAH. AND, UH, ANYTIME PLUMBING GOT INVOLVED BECAUSE MARTIN MARTINEZ SAID, NO, I WORK FOR ANYTIME PLUMBING. I DIDN'T SPOKE TO ANYTIME PLUMBING. THEY GO, HEY MAN, HE'S SAYING HE'S YOUR GUY. I, NO, I'LL TALK TO HIM, I'LL TALK TO HIM ANYTIME. PLUMBING. WHO DID YOU TALK TO AT ANY TIME? PLUMBING. I TALKED TO THE MASTER PLUMBER AND I DID TELL HIM ABOUT, UM, MARTIN MARTINEZ, THAT HE WAS, THAT, HEY, YOUR GUY'S SAYING THAT HE HIRED THESE GUYS. AND THAT'S HOW I WENT WITH IT TO BRING IT TO ANY TIME PLUMBING. THEY DIDN'T SAY NOWHERE WAS THE OWNER INVOLVED. NOWHERE ANY OF THAT IN MY INSPECTION. AND I WOULD THINK IF THIS HOUSE WAS ALL PRETTY MUCH A HUNDRED PERCENT READY TO GO, MINUS THEY'RE IN THERE MOVING A SHOWER HEAD, THIS THING WOULD BE UNDER TEST EVERYTHING. THE INSTALLATION, YOU STILL WOULDN'T HAVE ALL THESE, UH, FITTINGS OUT. I THINK THAT THIS HOUSE WAS IN THE PROGRESS OF STILL BEING TOPPED OUT, ROUGHED IN FROM WHAT I'M LOOKING AT JOSEPH BURN AGAIN. I'M GONNA BRING UP DANNY FOR OBSERVATIONS OUT IN THE FIELDS. OKAY, SORRY ABOUT THAT. I'M GONNA BRING UP DANNY FORKE AGAIN. UH, HE WILL TALK ABOUT MARTINE MARTINEZ. GOOD MORNING. THIS IS DANNY FORKE, SENIOR INSPECTOR PLUMBING. UM, THERE WAS PREVIOUS OCCASIONS THAT WE DID CATCH ANY TIME PLUMBING DOING WORK. AND WHEN I ASKED THE, THE PLUMBERS ON SITE WHO, WHO THE, WHO THE BOSS WAS, THEY SAID MARTIN MARTINEZ. I CALLED HIM, TALKED TO HIM. HE DID VERIFY I WORKED FOR ANYTIME PLUMBING. I DID CALL JJ UP AND SAY, HEY, WHO'S MARTINE? THAT'S MY GUY. SO THERE WERE SEVERAL TIMES THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE. YEAH, I, I THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY AGAIN. UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS IT, IT APPEARS, MAN, I'M GONNA FOLLOW UP WITH WHAT BRIAN SMITH WAS SAYING, THAT, UH, THIS IS A MESS AND IT HAD A LOT OF PLAYERS AND YOU'RE HEARING DIFFERENT STORIES. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT INDICATED A SHOWER HEAD, UH, BEING MOVED OR ANYTHING ELSE LIKE THIS. BUT THE QUESTION, IT APPEARS TO ME THERE WAS SOME WORK DONE ON THE PLUMBING THAT WAS NOT UNDER MR. OLIVER'S PERMIT. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHO'S REALLY AT THE CULPABILITY? JUST BECAUSE MR. RA RETAINED A PERMIT UNDER HIS LICENSE JUROR, UH, BUT SOMEBODY ELSE DID STUFF THAT VIOLATED THE BUILDING CODES, MR. BERNAL. SO WHAT AMOUNT OF LIABILITY DOES MR. RA REALLY HAVE? SO, AND WHERE SHOULD THIS BE DIRECTED TO? BUT, AND I'LL TAKE THAT ONE. SO, UH, THIS PARTICULAR HEARING IS ON THE 60 DAY SUSPENSION, ON WITNESSING THE TWO INDIVIDUALS THERE THAT WERE NOT LICENSED DOING WORK. SO AS FAR AS THE WORK AND WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS UNDER THE PERMIT WOULD BE, UM, A DIFFERENT PROCESS ALTOGETHER, WHICH IS NOT BEING APPEALED. SO THIS ONE IS STRICTLY INVOLVING THE TWO INDIVIDUALS ON SITE, THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NOT LICENSED AND WHETHER OR NOT MR. OLIVAREZ IS AWARE THAT THEY'RE ON THERE AND THEY'RE WORKING FOR HIM. OKAY. RACHEL, LET ME JUST CLARIFY WHAT YOU JUST SAID. IN [00:40:01] MY, FROM MY OWN UNDERSTANDING, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE WORKING THERE, BASED ON WHEN THE CITY INSPECTORS, UH, WERE OUT THERE, UH, THEY WERE NOT MR. RE'S EMPLOYEES. SO THE QUESTION THAT IS THE QUESTION. YEAH. SO THE QUESTION REALLY IS, IS HE BEING PENALIZED FOR WORK BEING DONE BY SOMEBODY ELSE THAT WERE NOT LICENSED? AND THAT WOULD BE WHAT THE IS BEING BROUGHT, UH, TO THE BOARD RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE CHAIN IS, IF THEY'RE WORKING UNDER THE MASTER PLUMBER PERMIT, UM, AND HE'S THE ONE IN RESPONSIBLE CHARGE OF THIS PERMIT, THE WORK THAT IS BEING DONE WITH REGARDS TO THIS PERMIT IS UNDER HIS DIRECTION. SO THAT WOULD BE THE APPEAL THAT IS BEING BROUGHT FORWARD TO YOU, UM, IS WHETHER OR NOT THESE TWO AND THE LACK OF LICENSE IS TIED TO MR. OLIVAREZ. SO THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE WHAT YOU ARE HEARING RIGHT NOW. THIS IS JOHN MARTIN. EVERYTHING THAT I'M HEARING, I, I DON'T SEE OR HEAR ANYTHING COMPELLING TO. UM, YOU KNOW, IN REGARDS TO THE APPEAL, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO UPHOLD THE SUSPENSION AS ISSUED AND TO DENY THE APPEAL. SECOND, WHO WAS THE SECOND FOR THE RECORD? WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO UPHOLD THE SUSPENSION AS PRESENTED TODAY BY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. DO WE HAVE ANY DISCUSSION? IT'S A BIG OLD MESS. YEAH, THOSE, THOSE ARE NOT MY ALL IN. I'M SORRY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU SIR. NEXT ITEM, PLEASE. JJ DIRECTOR. HI. SO I'M NOT THE DIRECTOR. UM, NOTHING'S CHANGED. YOU'RE NOT THE DIRECTOR. HE'S TALLER THAN I AM. HAS REDDER HAIR. UM, SO I JUST WANTED TO FILL YOU IN ON WHAT WE'RE DOING REGARDING THE VACANCIES BECAUSE I KNOW, UM, ALL OF YOU HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL IN SERVING, UH, WITH US. BUT I KNOW YOU HAVE ALL SERVED WAY LONGER THAN THE TERMS WE PROMISED YOU. SO I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS ARE STILL IN HOLDOVER STATUS. WE ARE POSTING THESE POSITIONS TO BE FILLED AS WELL. UM, THAT BEING SAID IS SOME UPDATES FROM CITY COUNCIL WITH THE CHARTER CHANGES THAT HAPPENED A LITTLE WHILE BACK. THEY HAVE INSTITUTED A SUNSET COMMITTEE REGARDING BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. YOU MAY BE INTERVIEWED BY THIS COMMITTEE. JUST KNOW THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS NOT BEEN FORMED YET. AND WE DO NOT KNOW WHEN THIS WILL HAPPEN, BUT THEY NEED TO INTERVIEW THE NEW APPLICANTS IN THIS NON FORMED COMMITTEE BEFORE THEY CAN BE PUT ON THE BOARD. SO I DO NOT HAVE A TIMELINE FOR YOU GUYS, BUT THE APPLICATIONS WILL BE OPEN UNTIL AUGUST 31ST. YES, SIR. RACHEL, ARE, IS EVERYBODY ON THIS CURRENT COMMITTEE CURRENT THAT'S ON A HOLDOVER, UH, OR ALL THEIR TERMS EXPIRED OR THERE STILL SOME HERE THAT HAVE SOME, UH, DURATION LEFT? EVERY ONE OF YOU LOVELY PEOPLE HAVE EXPIRED TERMS AND ARE IN HOLDOVER. AND I LOVE Y'ALL FOR COMING TO THIS. THANK YOU . SO ALL OF US EXPIRED PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE INTERVIEWED BY A COMMITTEE THAT DOESN'T EXIST, CORRECT? PATRICK. AND, AND ARE WE SUPPOSED TO APPLY AGAIN? NO, YOU CANNOT. YOUR TERMS ARE DONE. YOU CANNOT APPLY AGAIN. YOU ARE CURRENTLY IN HOLDOVER. NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT IN, I HAVE SEVERAL YEARS LEFT IN MY SERVICE TO THE SIX OR EIGHT OR 10 YEARS, WHATEVER IT IS, MAX. I BELIEVE IT'S TWO TERMS AT THREE YEARS EACH. I'VE ONLY SERVED ONE TERM. OKAY. I CAN CONFIRM. I WENT THROUGH ALL OF THE ORDINANCES TO CONFIRM, BUT I WILL DOUBLE CHECK ON ALL OF THEM. I BELIEVE EVERYBODY'S IN HOLD OF HER. I COULD BE MISTAKEN. SO LET ME CHECK ON THAT. OKAY. R RACHEL, JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, I DON'T RECALL THE BYLAWS FOR THIS COMMITTEE WHEN IT WAS SET UP YEARS AND YEARS AGO THAT, UH, YOU COULDN'T REAPPLY. SO ARE, IS THERE SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS AFTER YOUR TERM IS UP THAT YOU CANNOT REAPPLY FOR TWO YEARS, FIVE YEARS? WHAT HAPPEN YOUR TERM OUT AFTER? LIKE, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS EIGHT YEARS BECAUSE IT'S TWO YEARS. YEAH. I'VE HAD SUCH A HARD TIME EVEN FINDING AN ALTERNATE. I I KNOW. THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANT YOU TO REAPPLY. IF YOU CAN'T, WE WILL HAVE YOU IN HOLDOVER FOREVER. WELL, ANYWAY, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF, UH, YOU CAN DO THAT NOW, UH, RACHEL. BUT UH, IF YOU JUST LET US KNOW AND JUST SAY, HEY, UNDER THE FOLLOWING THINGS BECAUSE MM-HMM . I DIDN'T THINK YOU, YOU, UH, WHEN YOUR TERM WAS UP THAT YOU WERE GONE, UH, BUT THAT YOU COULD REAPPLY AT SOME TIME IN THE YOU CAN, BUT YOU CANNOT HAVE CONSECUTIVE TERMS. MEMBERS SHALL BE LIMITED TO THREE CONSECUTIVE TWO YEAR TERMS. MM-HMM . SIX YEARS TOTAL. DOESN'T MATTER. CONSECUTIVELY, I DON'T THINK I'VE BEEN ON HERE THAT MM-HMM . I'VE BEEN ON HERE [00:45:01] SINCE 2012. SECOND THAT MOTION. SO LET ME CONFIRM. YOU MAY HAVE BEEN, UM, SO LET ME GO BACK AND CONFIRM BECAUSE UM, I ACTUALLY PULLED ALL OF THE ORDINANCES FOR YOU GUYS AND I MAY BE MISTAKEN ON THAT AS I'M SPEAKING ON PUBLIC RECORD. UM, SO LET ME CONFIRM. I WILL COME BACK WITH THE NEXT HEARING ON EXACTLY WHERE EVERYTHING IS. I'LL PROBABLY DO IT BY EMAIL JUST TO INFORM YOU. YES. THIS IS JOHN MARTIN. SO ANY UH, CLARIFICATION OF THE TERMS FOR ALTERNATE VERSUS PRIMARY, IF YOU MOVE FROM ONE TO THE OTHER, DOES THAT RESET THE CLOCK? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I IF YOU WOULD RESET YES. BECAUSE THEN WOULD NO LONGER BE ALTERNATE STATED PREVIOUS. BRIAN SMITH CONSIDERED THE SOURCE. SO WHEN IT SAYS SHALL BE LIMITED TO THREE CONSECUTIVE TWO YEAR TERMS, IT'S NOT SPECIFIC AS TO THE POSITION, BUT LET'S SAY AN ALTERNATE WERE TO MOVE TO A MAIN ONE, THEY WOULD BE FINISHING OUT A TERM AND SO THAT ONE WOULDN'T COUNT AGAINST THEM. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH. BUT WHEN WE WORKED ON THE ORDINANCE MM-HMM . I THINK IT IS MY TERM IS THAT OF AN ALTERNATE. SO I CAN SERVE SIX YEARS AS AN ALTERNATE IF I GET APPOINTED AS THE PRIMARY. THAT IS A BRAND NEW POSITION AND TERM. AND SO I THINK YOU COULD DO POSSIBLY, I MEAN LIKE I CAN, I CAN TALK TO THE CITY ATTORNEYS. I MEAN IF Y'ALL ARE DYING TO STAY ON HERE, I WILL FIND YOU SOME WAYS TO KEEP HAVING TERMS. THE PROBLEM IS, IS IF YOU HAVE A, YES, I APPRECIATE IT. CHANGE THE TERMS. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A WHOLE TOOL TERM. YOU COULD ACTUALLY THEN BRING IT AND MAKE IT QUICKER AND THEN BRING IT BACK IF YOU WANTED TO BECAUSE THAT KEEPS IT FROM BEING A CONSECUTIVE TERM. WELL, BECAUSE POSSIBLY IF YOU GO THROUGH A CODE CYCLE WITH 25 NEW PEOPLE HERE, I DON'T WANT TO GONNA BE THE MOST MISERABLE PERSON THAT GOD PUT ONTO THIS. I DON'T WANT TO. WOULD YOU DO ME A, A FAVOR RACHEL AND ASK THE CITY ATTORNEY WHETHER THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODE APPEALS ADVISOR HAS THE ABILITY TO MODIFY THE BYLAWS? OBJECT? NO, BECAUSE, NO, BECAUSE IT'S IN CHAPTER 10. THEY'RE NOT TAKEN OUT AS YOUR BYLAWS. BUT DON'T WE, UH, DOESN'T THIS COMMITTEE MODIFY CHAPTER 10? UH, AND THEN IT GOES TO COUNCIL? YEAH, THAT'S FINE. YEAH. YOU CAN APPEAL TO YOURSELF. YEAH, IT HAS TO GO THROUGH, IT WOULD BE AN OUT OF CYCLE AMENDMENT. IT WOULD BE NOW ON CYCLE AMENDMENT. BUT YOU COULD IN THEORY. OKAY. JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF THE, HOW WE, DO YOU JUST WANNA PUT YOUR NAME IN PARTICULAR IN THERE AS FOREVER SURVEY? WELL, NO, IT'S JUST, IT WAS YEARS AGO WHEN I WORKED WITH JAY BARRY ARCHER TO GET THIS COMMITTEE FORMED. IT WAS VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. THEY FALL BY THE WAYSIDE BECAUSE I'VE TRIED FOR MANY YEARS TO TRY TO EVEN GET AN ARCHITECTURAL ALTERNATE. AGREED. AND SO I'M TRYING TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR THE CITY AND YOU KNOW, AND THIS SEGMENT, THIS CHARGE THAT WE AS A COMMITTEE HAVE, I THINK IT'S A VERY GOOD PROCESS BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS PROCESS WAS PRETTY MUCH A NIGHTMARE. WE NEVER HAVE CORN. REMEMBER ALL THE CORN PRIOR? MM-HMM. NOPE. CORN ALL YOUR VARIANCES. EXACTLY. MAJOR ISSUE FOR THE CITY BECAUSE YOU COULD NOT GET CORN FOR THE ELECTRICAL AND ALL THAT UNTIL THEY BROUGHT THE SUPER CORE TOGETHER. THIS HAS BEEN THE ONLY ONE TO BE ABLE TO GET. AND EVEN US, WE'VE HAD DIFFICULTIES, CERTAIN AREAS AND EXACTLY. ESPECIALLY, AND IF WE CAN GET A CITY ATTORNEY'S OPINION THAT SAYS YOU CAN SWITCH BETWEEN ALTERNATE YES. AND THAT AND SERVE SIX YEARS ON EACH AND IT'S NOT CONSIDERED CONSECUTIVE. THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC. YES. SO I WOULD SUGGEST YOU MIGHT WANT TO WRITE IT AND HAND IT TO 'EM AND JUST SAY, IS THIS OKAY? THIS IS OUR INTERPRETATION. RATHER THAN ASKING THE QUESTION. BECAUSE ROBERT, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD THEN APPLY TO BE AN ALTERNATE. CORRECT. GET APPOINTED AND THEN IT'D BE HARD TO HAVE AN ALTERNATE WITH NO PRIMARY, BUT YES, WITH NO PRI WE CAN GET A PRIMARY AND LET TELL HIM PLEASE SIR. JUST YEAR. SO, SO LET ME ALSO SAY THAT THE WAY THAT I'M DOING APPLICATIONS THIS TIME IS GONNA BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT IN THE HOPES THAT IT WILL GET ADDITIONAL APPLICANTS. SO GENERALLY WHENEVER WE GET THE APPLICANTS, WE ASK FOR YOU TO PROVIDE THE LETTER FROM YOUR UM, DESIGNATED ORGANIZATION. WHAT I AM DOING, I AM OPENING THE FIELD TO EVERYONE. I'M HAVING EVERYBODY APPLY. I'M SENDING A LIST TO THE ORGANIZATIONS AND SAY, HERE'S YOUR LIST. PLEASE ENDORSE ONE OR TWO. OKAY. SO I'M HOPING THAT WE'LL BRING IN MORE CANDIDATES THAN WAITING FOR THEM TO COME TO US WITH WHO THEY WANT TO BE ON THE BOARD BECAUSE WE AREN'T HAVING A LOT OF LUCK WITH THEM BRINGING US CANDIDATES. YOU DO UNDERSTAND PART OF THE OBSTACLE, RACHEL, ON THAT, OF BRINGING CANDIDATES. A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT IF I SERVE ON THAT BOARD, I CAN'T APPLY FOR CITY PROJECTS. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THAT IS TRUE. I KNOW THAT IS A BIG OBSTACLE. THAT IS THE BIGGEST ONE THAT WE HAVE. I HAVE HAD ROUND AND ROUND CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. AND THE ANSWER IS LET'S NOTHING MORE THAN 10%. [00:50:01] MORE THAN 10%. YES. SORRY. CITY WORK. SO THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO BOTHER ME. ROBERT WOULD NEVER TAKE CITY WORK. HE LIKES THE BOARDS TOO MUCH. OKAY. IS THAT BECAUSE OF A STATE LAW THAT PROHIBITS THAT? IT IS IN THE CITY CHARTER. OKAY. SO I'LL ASK MAYBE ONE OTHER, WHO'S IS OUR ELECTRICAL PE HERE? OUR COURT ELECTRICAL PE. ELECTRICAL FEE. IS THAT YOU? NO, I'M NOT. SEE TEXAS ONLY. NO, NO, NO. TEXAS ONLY LICENSES AS ENG ENGINEERS. MM-HMM SO I CAN FLIP IT BE ELECTRICAL, STRUCTURAL, MECHANICAL. THEY DO. THEY HAVE DISCIPLINES NOT BUT NOT ON OUR LICENSES. MY LICENSE, MY DEGREE IS, BUT I COULD APPLY. THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST GONNA SAY THAT ONE TOO. OKAY. MAYBE SOME OF US PES CAN JUST FLIP FLOP AROUND. WELL, YEAH. BUT HOWEVER, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO GET THE ORGANIZATION TO SUPPORT YOU. THAT'S CORRECT. MM-HMM . AND THAT, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT IS REAL IMPORTANT SO THAT YOU HAVE MM-HMM . BY HAND, BY THE GROUPS. AGREED. SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANARCHY WHEN YOU KNOW YOU GET SOMEONE WHO IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE GROUP. CORRECT. OKAY. WELL LET US KNOW. I MOVE THAT WE ADJOURN THIS MEETING. MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND. SECOND. SO MOVED. MEETING'S ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.