* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [3:00 PM – Call to Order] [00:00:06] COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17TH, 2025. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE MA'AM? PRESENT SAVINO. HERE. VELAZQUEZ. HERE. GALLOWAY. HERE. ZUKA. HERE. EVA? HERE. GROUP. HERE. CERVANTES. HERE. HOLLAND? HERE. FETZER HERE. AND GIBBS HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE TRANSLATION SERVICES, PLEASE? GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I AM JAYMAR GIBBS CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE CHAIR IS JEFFREY FETZER. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY AND THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. AND FOR DEMO DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON A PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF OR REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU WILL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR TWO MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON. SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TY TO BE STARTED WITHOUT THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. GOOD. A GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. UM, FIRST ITEM IS JUST APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER 3RD. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 3RD, 2025. SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? MAMON? AYE. SAVINO AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. MOOKA. AYE. EVA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. UM, [CONSENT AGENDA Items are placed on the consent agenda when staff recommends approval or recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant agrees to. Any member of the public desiring to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and be heard prior to voting on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda and have it placed on the individual consideration agenda. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.] WE HAVE A FULLY CONSENT AGENDA. I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME ITEMS WILL BE PULLED. UM, SO WE WILL GO IN ORDER OF, UM, SIGN UP AND VOICEMAILS. I ACTUALLY HAVE TWO SPEAKERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO, UH, SPEAK ON ITEMS FOUR THROUGH SIX, UM, HERE AT THE BEGINNING. SO WE'LL DO THEM FIRST. THEY'RE IN PERSON. UM, THE FIRST IS PATTY ZIONS. YEAH. TURN IT ON. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS PATTY ZIONS. I REPRESENT THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO AND I WILL BE SPEAKING ON THREE ITEMS. UH, NINE NUMBER 4 1 0 1 BOWIE STREET. I WILL TAKE THAT ONE FIRST. IT'S CASE NUMBER 20 25 2 2 5. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OPPOSES THE 1,200 SQUARE FOOT BILLBOARD PROPOSED FOR 1 0 1 BOWIE STREET. THE DIGITAL BILLBOARD RISES SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE THE EXISTING PARAPET OF THE BUILDING, FAILS TO ALIGN WITH EXISTING ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS. THE BILLBOARD ALSO APPEARS TO BE VISIBLE FROM THE HIGHWAY, BUT [00:05:01] THE APPLICATION DID NOT, UH, INDICATE TEXT APPROVAL ON ITEM NUMBER 5 5 0 6 SOUTH ST. MARY. IT'S 20 25, 2 30 ITEM. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OPPOSES THE BILLBOARD PROPOSED FOR 1 0 6 SOUTH ST. MARY'S. IT AWKWARDLY ADDS A CURVED ELEMENT TO A CUBIC BUILDING, FAILING TO CONSIDER THE EXISTING ARCHITECTURE. AND REGARDING ITEM NUMBER 6 1 0 5 AUDITORIUM CIRCLE, HGRC CASE 20 25 2 29. THE SOCIETY OPPOSES THE MASSIVE 1,250 SQUARE FOOT BILLBOARD PROPOSED FOR 1 0 5 AUDITORIUM CIRCLE. THE HUGE DIGITAL BILLBOARD POINTED TOWARD TRAVIS PARK DETRACTS FROM THE DOWNTOWN STREETSCAPE. ALL THREE OF THESE DIGITAL BILLBOARDS VIOLATE THE SIGN CODE CHAPTER 28 OF THE UDC, WHICH REQUIRES REMOVAL OF FOUR BILLBOARDS FOR THEIR CREATION OF EACH NEW DIGITAL BILLBOARD. MOREOVER, IT VIOLATES THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED DIGITAL MEDIA AND ARTS PILOT PROGRAM, AND IT DOES NOT CONTAIN A PERMANENT ART ELEMENT AS REQUIRED BY THE PILOT PROGRAM. THERE IS ALSO NO PROVISION FOR REMOVAL OF THESE INSTALLATIONS AT THE END OF THE PILOT PROGRAM. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED. LEWIS VEDER, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THE NEXT IS KATHLEEN RINARD. I LIKE THE WAY YOU SAID TR DID I DO IT RIGHT? SAY . RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF. I AM OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF DIGITAL BILLBOARDS PLACED OUR PROJECTED ANYWHERE IN OR NEAR OUR HISTORIC DOWNTOWN. A SURVEY WAS ALREADY CONDUCTED ONLINE BY THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO TO GAUGE SUPPORT FOR THIS PROPOSAL. OVER 70% OF THE RESPONDENTS WERE NEGATIVE. WHY DOES THE CITY EVEN BOTHER TO HAVE A SURVEY WHEN THEY WON'T ABIDE BY THE OUTCOME? MY DISTRICT SEVEN COUNCILWOMAN TOLD ME AND OTHERS, SHE WILL OPPOSE THIS PROPOSAL, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THE CITY COUNCIL GETS A SAY ON THIS. THE CITY'S EFFORTS TO ATTRACT MORE RESIDENTS INTO DOWNTOWN IS BEARING FRUIT. WITH MORE OFFICES BEING TRANSFORMED INTO APARTMENT COMPLEXES, BILLBOARDS WILL NOT COMPLIMENT, COMPLIMENT THIS ACCOMPLISHMENT. WHAT WE NEED IS MORE TREES AND DISCREET ATTRACTIVE LIGHTING. DOWNTOWN BILLBOARDS WOULD CONFLICT WITH THAT EFFORT AS WELL. PERHAPS THIS PROPOSAL IS ACTUALLY A TROJAN HORSE TO BYPASS THE UDC AS HAPPENED ALREADY WITH THE DIGITAL KIOSKS, ADVERTISING BEER AND CELL PHONES, UM, ON OUR SIDEWALKS AND OUR PARK PATHS. WHY IS SAN ANTONIO THE ONLY TEXAS CITY WHERE THIS IS BEING PUSHED? PERHAPS OTHER BILLBOARD INDUSTRIES ARE WAITING FOR THE CHANCE TO COMPETE WITH THIS COMPANY WITHOUT DEALING WITH THE UDC. WE'VE LOST OUR WAY SAN ANTONIO. WE CAN AND MUST DO BETTER. THANK YOU ALL. COMMISSIONERS. I'LL NOW PLAY, UH, VOICEMAILS. COREY, IS THAT ALL FOR IN PERSON? THAT'S ALL OF FOR IN PERSON. YEAH. SO THE NEXT TWO VOICEMAILS, UM, ARE IN REGARDS TO ITEMS FOUR THROUGH SIX AS WELL. PATRICIA PRATCHETT, 7 33 EAST WOODLAWN AVENUE. I'M CALLING TO RECOMMEND STRONGLY THAT YOU DISAPPROVED DIGITAL BILLBOARDS ITEMS FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX. WAIT, WHAT? THE FIRST TIME I HEARD ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL TO PUT DIGITAL BILLBOARDS IN OUR CITY, I THOUGHT I HEARD WRONG. WHY WOULD WE LITTER OUR BEAUTIFUL HISTORIC CITY WITH DIGITAL ADVERTISING SIGNS TRASHY AND FOR THAT MATTER, AN UNSAFE DRIVING DISTRACTION? THESE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN MORE SCREENS IN OUR LIVES. DON'T WE HAVE ENOUGH? CAN'T WE ESCAPE OUR DIGITAL LIVES WHILE DRIVING OR LEISURELY WALKING IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO? WHETHER WE'RE LOCAL OR VISITORS, I'M APPALLED AND DON'T KNOW HOW THIS ADVERTISING MEDIUM IS GOING TO HELP THE ARTS AND ARTISTS. THESE SIGNS ARE ALSO A THREAT TO MIGRATORY BIRDS. CAN YOU IMAGINE SEEING BIRDS FLY INTO THESE SIGNS AND THEN DROPPING TO THE EARTH? WE WERE DESIGNATED BIRD CITY, TEXAS IN 2021 BY TEXAS PARKS AND AUDUBON, TEXAS. RECOGNIZING THAT WE'RE [00:10:01] ON THE CENTRAL FLYWAY, WHICH IS A MAJOR MIGRATORY CORRIDOR, A CRUCIAL STOPOVER FOR MANY BIRD SPECIES. THESE BILLBOARDS CONTRIBUTE TO SKY GLOW, THE GENERAL BRIGHTENING OF THE NIGHT SKY OVER CITIES WHICH CAN LURE BIRDS OFF THEIR MIGRATORY PATHS AND TOWARD URBAN AREAS. WHAT HAVE OUR CITY PLANNERS DONE TO PROTECT MILLIONS OF BIRDS THAT TRAVELED THROUGH OUR CITY FROM THIS DANGEROUS VISUAL DISORIENTATION? AND DID YOU KNOW THAT MANY NATURALISTS AND BIRD WATCHERS VISIT SAN ANTONIO? BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT PLACE TO OBSERVE BIRDS ON THEIR MIGRATORY PATHS. THIS WHOLE PROPOSAL IS JUST WRONG. A BIG SELLING POINT HAS BEEN PROMOTION OF THE ARTS. IN FACT, ARTS WILL OCCUPY A SMALL PART OF THE OVERALL AREA OF THESE SIGNS AND WILL FLASH INFORMATION SPORADICALLY. IS THE DRIVER SUPPOSED TO LOOK AWAY FROM THE ROAD TO TRY TO TAKE DOWN INFORMATION ABOUT A CURRENT ART EXHIBITION? IS THIS HOW SAN ANTONIO WANTS TO PROMOTE THE ARTS? AGAIN, I'M JUST MYSTIFIED AND WHOLLY DISAGREE WITH THIS PROJECT. PLEASE DISAPPROVE IT. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING AND FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR CITY. SO THAT CONCLUDES PUBLIC. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS SUSAN AND I LIVE AT 6 0 7 RIVER ROAD. I'M CALLING ABOUT ITEM FOUR, FIVE AND SIX AND I'M URGING YOU TO VOTE AGAINST THOSE ITEMS WHICH WOULD PLACE ENORMOUS DIGITAL BILLBOARDS WITHIN THE HISTORICALLY PROTECTED AREA OF RIO THREE AND THE AUDITORIUM CIRCLE HISTORIC DISTRICT. GIVEN THE PLACEMENT OF THESE ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, IT APPEARS THAT THE APPROVAL IS A DONE DEAL. HOWEVER, AS AN EXPERT ADVISORY BODY CHARGED WITH WEIGHING IN ON THE PROTECTION OF RIO THREE, I URGE YOU TO MAKE YOUR PROFESSIONAL VOICES HEARD, EVEN IF THE END RESULT IS FOR ORDAINED RIO. THREE CALLS FOR RESPECTING TRADITIONAL FORMAL STREET LEVEL DESIGN PRECEDENTS. THERE IS NO PRECEDENT DOWNTOWN FOR THE SCALE OR GARISHNESS OF THIS COMMERCIAL ADVERTISING. TOURISTS AND LOCALS VISIT DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO FOR ITS HISTORY AND BEAUTY. AND THESE SIGNS WILL DO IMMEASURABLE DAMAGE TO THE FABRIC OF DOWNTOWN, THE PEACEFUL ENJOYMENT OF ITS RESIDENTS AND HOTEL GUESTS, THE TELEVISION AND FILM INDUSTRY, WHICH RELIES ON ITS HISTORIC FABRIC AS WELL AS THE NATURAL ENVIRONMENT AND MIGRATORY BIRDS. IF OUR CITIZEN EXPERT REPRESENTATIVES DON'T STAND UP FOR OUR PRESERVATION VALUES, WE WILL LOSE WHAT MAKES SAN ANTONIO UNIQUE AND BECOME SIMPLY A SECOND RATE. SUNBELT CITY AGAIN, PLEASE VOTE AGAINST ITEMS FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO THAT CONCLUDES OUR PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR THE AGENDA. THANK YOU. DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL ANY ITEMS FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA? YES, SIR. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WISH TO PULL FOUR, FIVE AND SIX. FOUR. FIVE AND SIX. ANY OTHERS? YES SIR. I'D LIKE TO PULL ONE AND TWO. ONE AND 2, 4, 5 AND SIX. ANY OTHERS? MAY I HAVE A MOTION ON THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA, PLEASE? YES. I'D LIKE TO MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF THE BALANCE, WHICH I BELIEVE IS THREE AND SEVEN WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY. SECOND. AND IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? MAMMON? AYE. SINO AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA. AYE. RA AYE. GROOM. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS FOUR 30 EAST COMMERCE OR 1 0 3 WEST MAGNOLIA, YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CASE MANAGER OR A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. UH, COMMISSIONERS FIRST UP IS ITEM NUMBER 1 1 23 ALAMO PLAZA. UH, THE APPLICANT, GREG ETT IS HERE IN PERSON. UH, AND I'LL GO AHEAD AND PULL THAT UP ON THE SCREEN. UH, EITHER GREG OR UH, STAFF CAN FIELD QUESTIONS. UH, MR. CHAIR, THE, THE REASON WHY I ASKED TO PULL WAS MORE, MORE TO, UM, ASK, UH, FOR A MOTION FROM THE COMMISSION TO HAVE, UH, UH, DIALOGUE. I FORGET WHAT THE LANGUAGE FOR THAT, WHAT WE HAD SAID. SO YOU PRETTY MUCH JUST WANNA MOVE, MOVE TO, UM, HAVE A DIALOGUE DISCUSSION CONCERNING YES. ITEMS ONE AND TWO. YES, SIR. OKAY. GO AHEAD AND MAKE THE MOTION, SIR, GO AHEAD AND MAKE OH, A MOTION TO ENGAGE THE COMMISSION IN DIALOGUE, UM, CON CONSIDERING ITEMS ONE AND TWO SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED [00:15:01] AND PROPERLY. SECOND FURTHER DISCUSSION, SIR. WELL, WELL, UM, MR. CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, UM, I'M SORRY. WE DO, UM, I WAS JUMPING A GUN. LET'S HAVE A, UM, VOTE PLEASE AND THEN WE CAN GO INTO YOUR DISCUSSION. UM, MAYOR ROLL CALL PLEASE. MAMON AYE. SAVINO AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA. AYE. GIDA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. SORRY. GOOD, SIR, IF I COULD ASK EDWARD, PLEASE, UM, ZOOM IN ON THE, UH, THE SIGN, LEAVING SOME SPACE ON EITHER SIDE. THE, THE, THE TAKE CARE OF ITSELF. I, I, I WANT ASK THE COMMISSION, UH, IT, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, THAT WITH RESPECT TO THE PROPORTIONS AND THE RESPECT TO THE BUILDING, THAT THERE'S AN AREA OF THE FACADE THAT PRESENTS ITSELF AS THE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR A SIGN. THIS SIGN IT STEPS INTO THE AREA OF DETAIL OF THE WINDOW, AND IT USES THE BAND ABOVE THE WINDOW, THE, THE, THE, UH, TRIM OF THE WINDOW AS ALMOST SAYING THAT IT'S AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THE SIGN. WHICH TO ME, IT, IT, IT APPEARS THAT THE SIGN IS, IS TOO BIG. IT'S NOT, THE SIGN ISN'T A APPROPRIATE, OR THAT, OR THAT A SIGN SHOULDN'T BE THERE. BUT IT, IT, IT WOULD APPEAR TO ME THAT, THAT THE T AND THE S SHOULD COME DOWN BELOW THE FIRST DASH LINE THAT IS THE, THE LOWER LINE. AND THAT AT THE VERY LEAST, A HAUNTED EXPERIENCE LIKE NO OTHER SHOULD BE RAISED TO A LEVEL THAT DOESN'T EXCEED HALF OF THAT WINDOW LINE SO THAT IT'S PROTRUDING INTO THE SPACE, BUT IT'S NOT CLAIMING THAT THAT AREA IS A SPACE THAT IS INTENDED FOR SIGNAGE SO THAT THEY CAN STILL GET THE EXTRA SPACE THAT THEY WANT. BUT FOR IT TO BE USED COMPLETELY AS A SIGN FREEZE, AND FOR THE TWO FIND ITSELF ON TOP OF THAT DETAILED PORTION THAT SEPARATES THE, THE TWO CENTER WINDOWS, IT SEEMS THAT IT'S JUST TOO, UM, IT'S ASKING FOR TOO MUCH OF THE FACADE. I KNOW THAT THAT PROBABLY SHRINKS A SIGN A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT. IT, IT'S MY OPINION. I'M, I'M NOT, UM, UM, YOU KNOW, I RESPECT THAT STAFF HAS IT ON THE CONSENT AND THAT, THAT THE COMMISSION, UH, MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME, UH, UH, OUTLOOK ON, ON, ON WHAT I'M, UH, ASKING. BUT I, I, I'D LIKE TO, IF THE COMMISSION, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT MAY HAVE PASSED US BY OR I'M JUST, UM, BEING TOO, TOO RIGID. THIS WENT TO A PREVIOUS DRC. IF ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS PRESENT AT THAT DRC WANT TO REPORT OUT ON, ON THAT MEETING, I DID ATTEND A COUPLE OF DRCS ON THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT. AND, UH, WE TALKED EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THAT, UH, PERCEIVED SIGN BAND ON THE BUILDING AND WORKING WITH THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUILDING. UH, THIS IS THE, UM, SMALLEST OF THEIR PROPOSALS. OTHERS WERE LARGER, UH, EXTENDING MUCH FURTHER BELOW AND ABOVE THE SIGN BAND. UM, AND WE ENCOURAGED THEM TO, UH, REDUCE IT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I THINK THIS IS 50 SQUARE FEET, WHICH I THINK THE CODE ALLOWS, AND I THINK THEY'RE JUST GOING TO THE MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE. COMMISSIONER GROUP, I JUST HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. IS THIS, UM, I'M ASSUMING THIS IS ALSO THE LOGO AND THE MARKETING, UM, OF THEIR BUSINESS? THE, UH, APPLICANT'S ON THE WAY TO THE PODIUM NOW. JUST ONE SECOND. THANK YOU. YES, COMMISSIONERS. GREG BURETT WITH APEX SIGN GROUP REPRESENTING THE, UH, CLIENT OF THIS PARTICULAR, UH, VENUE, UH, FOR ALAMO PLAZA. YES. THAT IS THEIR LOGO THAT THEY HIRED A MARKETING FIRM TO DEVELOP, AND, AND THEY WENT THROUGH MULTIPLE ITERATIONS TO COME TO THAT FINAL DESIGN, AND THAT IS THEIR LOGO. OKAY. UH, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING. AND, UM, JUST SINCE WE'RE IN DISCUSSION, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE, UH, ITEM AS PROPOSED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS ALSO BECAUSE, UM, OUR PURVIEW IS NOT TO DESIGN, UH, IT, IT'S WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF THE 50 SQUARE FEET. AND I, AND I APPRECIATE THE, UH, COMMISSIONERS THAT ATTENDED THE DRC TO, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOW WE'RE KEEPING WITHIN THE, THE SIZE LIMITS. [00:20:01] UM, AND NOT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, EVERY BUSINESS HAS THEIR LOGOS AND I THINK THAT'S, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT FOR THE LOGO. SO, AND I THINK THE, YOU KNOW, THE PLACEMENT GOES WITH THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SANTES? YES. MY QUESTION IS FOR STAFF. STAFF, DO THE GUIDELINES MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE SIGN CROSSING INTO THE LINES OF THE OVERHANG THE WAY IT DOES, WHERE IT KIND OF IMPEDES THE OVERHANG AND TAKES AWAY FROM IT? AND I GUESS WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS IT WOULD SEEM TO MAKE SENSE THAT IT WOULD, SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, EITHER SHIFTED UP A LITTLE BIT OR SQUEEZED DOWN A LITTLE BIT SO THAT IT DOESN'T IMPEDE THE DESIGN ELEMENT OF THE WINDOWS AND THE, THE OVERHANG THERE. WHAT DO THE GUIDELINES SAY ABOUT THAT? THE GUIDELINES SAY NOT TO OBSCURE UNIQUE ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES. UM, I CAN GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THIS BUILDING AND SIGNAGE. UH, SO FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO, UM, THERE WAS SIGNAGE THAT, UH, THE COMMISSION STIPULATED FIT WITHIN A CERTAIN SIGN BAND, UM, ON THIS FACADE. WHEN STAFF RECEIVED THE INITIAL APPLICATION, OR I GUESS IT WAS ACTUALLY PRIOR TO THE APPLICATION, THE APPLICANT REACHED OUT AND SAID, HEY, I'VE SUBMITTED SIGNAGE HERE BEFORE, AND THERE WAS DISCUSSION AT THE COMMISSION. I'D LIKE TO SPEAK WITH STAFF. UH, AT THAT POINT, UH, THERE WERE THREE OPTIONS THAT WERE PROPOSED. STAFF FOUND TWO OF THEM TO BE INCONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES, UH, ONE OF THEM TO POTENTIALLY BE CONSISTENT. UH, SO, UH, STAFF SCHEDULED THIS FOR TWO SUBCOMMITTEE REVIEWS, WHERE, WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON THE SCREEN NOW IS ESSENTIALLY THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION FROM THE SUBCOMMITTEE AFTER THE SECOND MEETING TO, UH, RAISE THE BOTTOM OF THE SIGN TO WHERE IT ALIGNED WITH THE TOP OF THE WINDOWS, UH, OF THE TRANSOM WITHIN THE OPENING. UH, AND THEN THE TOP OF THE SIGN TO BE PLACED WHERE IT IS THERE, UM, AT 50 SQUARE FEET IN THE LIGHTING THAT'S PROPOSED. TECHNICALLY, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE UDC AND THE GUIDELINES AS A REASE. CAN I, OKAY, THANK YOU. YEAH, I NOTICED THAT THE SIGN IS THERE NOW FROM THE PREVIOUS, UH, UH, OR THE ONE THAT APPEARS ON GOOGLE EARTH DOES NOT BLEED OFF INTO THE, INTO THE, UH, OPENING THERE. UM, OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION. I, I THINK IT KIND OF IMPEDES ON THE, UH, THE AESTHETIC, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. I FORGET, ROBERT. THANK YOU. . FURTHER DISCUSSION. WHAT MR. CHAIR? I JUST WANNA MAKE VERY CLEAR THAT THAT, UM, MY, UH, UH, INITIATION DISCUSSION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LOGO. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DESIGN OF THE LOGO. IT'S, IT'S JUST AS A STANDARD, IT SHOULDN'T LINE UP. IT, IT, IT SHOULD BE INTRODUCING ITSELF INTO THE SPACE. IT SHOULDN'T TAKE OVER THE SPACE. AND WHEN IT COMES TO THE TOP OF IT, I COULD SEE THE S AND THE T INTRUDING, BUT, UH, NOT OVERTAKING AND IT, AND IT DOES OVERTAKE THE LINES, BUT IF IT'S THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION, I, I SUPPORT THE, THE COMMISSION'S DECISION. UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE MY POSITION VERY CLEAR. THANK, THANK YOU, SIR. COMMISSIONER SAVAN CHAIR. OH, YOU TOOK IT DOWN. THANK YOU. UM, IF THERE'S NO MORE DISCUSSION, MAY I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? CAN I JUST ASK ONE MORE QUESTION, MR. CHAIR? ABSOLUTE, ABSOLUTELY. GO AHEAD. SO CURRENTLY IT'S THAT VEEVA SATX SIGN. UM, I THINK GUESS THE APPLICANT CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION. AND THERE'S LIKE THESE COLOR, IT'S ON THE APPLICATION, LIKE ALL THESE COLOR SQUARES THAT ARE ACTUALLY COVERING A LOT OF THE BUILDING, CORRECT? CORRECT. THE, UH, AREA THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER, UH, VASQUEZ IS MIS UH, MENTIONING THAT AREA IS COVERED BY NEON GRAPHIC, UH, ACCENT SIGN CHANNEL TYPE LETTERS CURRENTLY. AND THE APP, THE TENANT, THE OWNER IS GONNA REMOVE ALL OF THOSE. SO IT IS A DRAMATIC REDUCTION IN CLEANING UP OF THE STOREFRONT FACADE FROM WHAT IT CURRENTLY IS TO WHAT THIS, UH, NEW SIGN WILL LOOK LIKE. AND THAT'S ALSO MY QUESTION. YOU'RE NOT GONNA REPLACE THOSE NEON SQUARES WITH ANYTHING ELSE. THEY WILL BE GONE, THEY WILL BE REMOVED, AND THEY WILL NOT BE, THEY WILL NEVER BE SEEN DOWN ON ALAMO PLAZA AGAIN. OKAY. MR. I YOU A MOTION IF NO ONE ELSE HAS ANY? WELL, WELL, LET ME JUST, LEMME JUST, UH, JUST, I, I I WANT TO JUST MAKE CLEAR LOOK, THE, THE LOGO AND ALL THAT'S BEAUTIFUL. UH, IT'S NOT A CRITICISM ON THE LOGO. UH, I DON'T THINK THAT REDUCING IT WILL AFFECT ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE DOING. IN FACT, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT FROM MY STANDPOINT, IT ENHANCES THE BUILDING. IT ENHANCES THE SIGN AND BECAUSE THERE'S THE, THE, THE OBVIOUS SIZE OF THE SIGN IS BECAUSE THAT'S AS MUCH AS IT COULD GET. BUT THAT'S NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOOD DESIGN. THE SPIRIT OF GOOD DESIGN IS GONNA BE LOOKING AT THAT BUILDING AND MAKING IT FIT, MAKING IT, UH, APPROPRIATE. AND THAT'S SAYING THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING HERE IS, IS, IS NOT THE BUILDING, AND IT'S NOT THE SIGN. I MEAN, IT'S NOT THE BUSINESS AND IT'S NOT THE SIGN, IT'S THE BUILDING. OTHERWISE THAT'S TYPICAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. BUT ONCE IT COMES TO [00:25:01] US, OUR ROLE IS TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE BUILDING, WHICH IS A LITTLE HARD FOR MOST PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE AS WELL AS THE BUILDING WOULDN'T BE DOING ANYTHING IF THE BUSINESS WASN'T THERE. RIGHT. BUT IT JUST SEEMS THAT YOU'RE MISSING AN OPPORTUNITY. AND I JUST WANT TO VOICE THAT OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE IF THERE'S ANYONE THAT SAYS, HEY, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A BETTER OPPORTUNITY THAN, UM, DESIGN PREVAILS. OTHERWISE, UH, LIKE I SAID, I'M, I, I, I'LL, UM, UH, BE WITH THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, COMMISSIONER GROUP, I'M READY FOR YOUR MOTION, MA'AM. MOTION CHAIR APPROVE AS PRESENTED. SECOND. IT'S BEEN MOVED. I PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FINAL DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL? PLEASE, MA'AM? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA? AYE. KIVA AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER TWO, PLEASE. YES, MR. MR. CHAIR? SAME. UM, AS FOR THE MOTION JUST TO, UH, GAUGE COMMISSION INTO, UM, DIALOGUE, I, I WOULD SUBMIT TO THE COMMISSION THAT THE LOCATION OF THIS, OF, OF THIS ONE ASPECT OF THIS, UM, I GUESS IT'S A MASTER PLAN SIGNAGE, MASTER PLAN IS THE ROOFTOP RESTAURANT, UM, SIGN LOCATION. UM, IT, FROM, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE AZTEC SIGN HAS ENTERED INTO THE REALM OF PARTICULAR DESIGN ELEMENT OF THIS BUILDING. SO IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST A A, A MARQUEE ANYMORE. IT BECOMES LIKE THE MAJESTIC OR BECOMES LIKE THE TEXAS. NOW IT'S A THING IN ITSELF. THIS SIGN THAT IS PROPOSED SETS ITSELF NOT, NOT, NOT LESS THAN SIX INCHES OR NOT MORE THAN SIX INCHES FROM THE EXISTING CIRCLE OF THE BOTTOM OF THE AZTEC, IF I'M READING THIS PROPERLY. TO ME, IT, IT, IT TRIES TO FAKE ITSELF AS AN ABSTRACT PORTION OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE. AND, AND NOW IT'S COMING BACK IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T MIMIC IT. IT CREATES ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT, TO ME FALSE, UH, UH, DIALOGUES OF, OF ITS PURPOSE. AND ITS THROUGH ITS POSITIONING. UM, IT, IT, IT, TO ME, IT, IT NEEDS TO BE MUCH MORE, UH, APART FROM THIS, IT NEEDS TO RESPECT THE MARQUEE SO THAT, THAT PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE THIS, THIS ARCHITECTURAL GEM WITH THE, WITH THE SIGN AS A, AS A, AS A PIECE OF THE BUILDING. UH, MUCH LIKE MANY OF THE FAMOUS THEATERS OR FAMOUS BUILDINGS IN AMERICA, THAT THIS SIGN IS INAPPROPRIATE. I UNDERSTAND THE OPPORTUNITY THAT EXISTS TO BE ANYONE THAT COULD PUT THEIR LOGO RIGHT UNDERNEATH THE, UNDERNEATH THE AZTEC SIGN. AND, AND TO, TO, TO MIMIC THE IDEA THAT I, I WAS HERE AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN HERE, BUT TO ME, IT CREATES A FALSE PRESENCE. IT PRESENTS A GREATER CHALLENGE TO THE, TO THE LOCATION OF THAT SIGN. I, I, I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THAT'S A, UM, A BAD THING. IT, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S JUST NOT AN EASY THING. PARTICULARLY IF YOU, YOU KNOW, I THINK NINE, IF YOU ASK NINE TIMES, NINE PEOPLE OUTTA 10 PEOPLE, IF YOU COULD HAVE YOUR NAME ANYWHERE, YOU COULD HAVE IT. WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE IT? THEY'D PROBABLY PAINT SOMEWHERE OVER THERE BY THE UNDERNEATH THE MARQUEE. IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE. UM, BUT AGAIN, IF, IF IT'S THE WILL OF THE COMMISSION TO, TO, TO THINK THAT IT IS, WELL, I, I'D BE SUPPORTING IT AS WELL AT THIS POINT. I, I'M, I'M, I DON'T SEE THAT IT'S SENSIBLE. LAST, PASS IT TO THE COMMISSIONERS FOR, UM, THEIR OPINIONS. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GROUP. WELL ACTUALLY AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. HE HAS A POINT. UM, IS THE APPLICANT IN THE ROOM? UH, THE APPLICANT IS THERE IS AN APPLICANT OR AN INDIVIDUAL REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE COMPANY THAT IS ON VIRTUALLY, UH, MS. RHONDA WALLACE. SO JUST TO, TO KIND OF, UH, FOLLOW THAT, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SEPARATE IT FROM THE AZTEC SIGN AND MAYBE MAKE THE CIRCLE SMALLER JUST TO REALLY DIFFERENTIATE? MAYBE I WOULD LOWER IT AND MAKE IT SMALLER. WE COULD DO THAT. SO HOW FAR APART FROM THE AZTEC SIGN WOULD YOU GUYS WANNA SEE IT? WELL, AND I THINK IT SHOULD BE, IF, IF IT, WELL ACTUALLY GO BACK TO THE OTHER PICTURE, EDWARD. I MEAN, IT COULD BE THE OTHER ONE THAT YOU WERE BEFORE. I DON'T KNOW IF I'M DELAYED, BUT, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BUILDING, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT IT RIGHT THERE, BECAUSE YOU DO WANT SIGNAGE THERE, SINCE IT'S [00:30:01] THE ROOFTOP, NOT THE HOTEL. RIGHT, I GET THAT. SO IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM THE LOWER WINDOW AND MAYBE CENTER IT AROUND THAT, LIKE THAT PIECE OF RED BRICK THAT'S BETWEEN THE FRINGE, LIKE RIGHT WITH THE AZTECS, I MEAN, I, I DO AGREE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A SET AMOUNT OF INCHES OR FEET, BUT MAYBE CENTERING IT, YOU CAN CENTER IT TO THAT PART OF THE BUILDING SO IT'S A SEPARATE ENOUGH SO THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT'S PART OF THAT ORIGINAL ASPECT SIGN. AND THEN MAYBE REDUCING IT IN SIZE, UH, SO THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE, AGAIN, YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT PART OF THAT AZTEC SIGN AND NOT BE WILLING TO HEAR FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS. BUT I AGREE IF THE APPLICANT'S WILLING TO DO THAT, I WOULD PUT THAT IN THE MOTION. THANK YOU. VICE CHAIR FETZER? YES, I WOULD AGREE WITH, UH, MY PREVIOUS COMMISSIONERS THAT THE SIGN THIS NEW, UH, ROOFTOP RESTAURANT, UH, SIGN IS, UH, INAPPROPRIATELY TRYING TO CONNECT ITSELF TO THE AZTEC, UM, ELEMENT. AND I THINK LOWERING IT, UH, POSSIBLY CENTERING IT BETWEEN THE, THE CANOPY AND THAT CASTSTONE BAND, UM, ALONG THE RED BRICK LIKE COMMISSIONER GRU MENTIONED, AND DEFINITELY MAKING IT SMALLER, UM, THAN TRY AGAIN TRYING TO MATCH THE AZTEC SIGN. I THINK THAT'D BE MUCH MORE APPROPRIATE. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES? YEAH, JUST TO, JUST TO ADD TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS THERE ANOTHER IDEA PERHAPS WOULD BE BRINGING IT CLOSER TO THE CORNER AND MAKING IT LIKE A CLAMSHELL, KIND OF WHERE IT STILL FACES DOWN THE STREET, BUT IT'S NOT PART OF THE, UH, UH, OF THE MAIN SIGN, BUT IT'S KIND OF OPENED UP AT A, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT, A 45 DEGREE ANGLE WHERE IT'S KIND OF CLAMS SHELLED AND THEN, YOU KNOW, CLAMSHELL WITH THE MOUTH FACE IN THE CORNER OF THE BUILDING. AND THEN YOU, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF SETS ITSELF APART, BUT IT'S STILL THERE. AND THEN, AND THAT MIGHT EVEN ALLOW YOU TO KEEP IT AT THAT SIZE IF YOU DO SOMETHING. BUT THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE TOO DRAMATIC , I DON'T KNOW, BUT, AND JUST AN IDEA THROW OUT THERE. THANK YOU, SIR. UH, OKAY, SIR, I JUST, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER GRU THAT, UH, IT SHOULD BE LOWER AND, AND ABOUT THAT LEVEL THAT IS CENTERED ON THAT SECOND FLOOR COURSE OF WINDOWS. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER MASUKA. I, I ALSO THINK IT COULD BE THE SAME SIZE, THE CURRENT SIZE. THANK YOU, SIR. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? I'LL DO A MOTION, MR. CHAIR. OKAY, MA'AM. UM, WE'RE NOT THE DESIGNERS. I'M GONNA LET THE DESIGNERS FINISH THE WORK. SO I'M GONNA DO A MOVE TO APPROVE, UH, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND ADD A STIPULATION THAT THE, UM, SOUTHWEST CORNER SIGN BE LOWERED CENTERED IN THE BRICK CENTERED THE BRICK, UH, FOR THE SECOND STORY. AND THEN REDUCING THE SIZE JUST ENOUGH TO NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE PART OF THE, UH, AZTEC SIGN SECOND BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND FURTHER DISCUSSION. AND THAT'S REALLY JUST LEAVING IT OPEN TO THE DESIGNERS. IT'S NOT ABOUT, THEY DON'T HAVE TO REDUCE IT A LOT, IT'S JUST MAKING IT, YOU KNOW, JUST NOT MIMICKING. AND IT CAN BE SOMETHING THAT JUST VISUALLY IS REDUCED ENOUGH THAT DOESN'T MAKE LOOK LIKE IT'S PART OF THE AZTEC SIGN. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? MAMON? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ. AYE. GALLOWAY? AYE. MOOKA. AYE. GIDA. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MS. WALLACE. YOU CAN EMAIL THAT UPDATE DIRECTLY TO ME. OKAY. THANK YOU GUYS. ITEM NUMBER FOUR, PLEASE. COMMISSIONERS, I WILL PULL UP THE, UH, CASE FILE THAT WAS POSTED WITH THE AGENDA, BUT WE ALSO HAVE, UH, REVISED DOCUMENTS FOR ITEMS FOUR, FIVE, AND SIX. AND SO THOSE MAY BE MORE, UH, PERTINENT TO THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATIONS. UM, SO NICK, I JUST MADE YOU A PANELIST. UM, AND WE WILL PULL UP YOUR UPDATED DRAWINGS NOW. OKAY, GREAT. AND THEN ALSO WE HAVE TWO OTHER ORANGE RAIL TEAM MEMBERS ON. WE HAVE ANNA BERRYMAN, WHO IS THE S ONE OF OUR SENIOR DIRECTORS OF DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN NUN SADI, WHO IS OUR DIRECTOR OF ARCHITECTURE. I WANTED TO SEE IF THEY COULD HAVE SPEAKING AVAILABILITY AS WELL. YES, I GOT THEM. AWESOME. [00:35:01] THANKS ED. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, SHERIFF FETZER? YES. UM, I'VE PULLED ALL OF THE DIGITAL SIGNS TODAY FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION AND, AND, UH, GENERALLY HAVING TO DO WITH HOW THE SIGN RELATES TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. UM, IN TERMS OF THE 1 0 1 BUOY STREET, UM, BASICALLY CANTILEVER VERTICALLY ABOVE THE PARAPET, UH, DOES NOT RELATE OTHER THAN THE BOTTOM OF THE SIGN RELATING TO A BELT COURSE ON THE PARAPET. THERE'S NO OTHER RELATION TO THE EXISTING ELEVATION, UH, DETAILS THE, UH, MORTAR JOINTS OF THE, THE SPANDREL PANELS. UM, SO THAT IS, UH, ONE OF CONCERNS THAT I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE, THE DESIGNERS AND THE OWNER FOR, UM, OTHER THAN MAKING IT MORE VISIBLE FROM THE FREEWAY, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'D WANT TO DO THIS AND NOT RELATE IT TO THE BUILDING. UM, AGAIN, IT'S IN THE RIO DISTRICT AND, UM, WE'RE CHARGED WITH, UM, LOOKING AT SIGNAGE AS IT RELATES TO THE, UH, STRUCTURES THEMSELVES. UM, AND ONE THING WITH THE PROJECTING ABOVE THE PARAPET, UH, THERE WAS NEVER A DRAWING OR, UH, IMAGE PRODUCED TO SHOW WHAT SORT OF STRUCTURAL FRAME WOULD BE VISIBLE, UH, FROM THE SOUTH THAT WOULD, UH, SUPPORT THIS, UH, TALL SIGN. UH, I ASSUME THERE WOULD BE SOME SORT OF, UH, STEEL STRUCTURE THAT WOULD, UH, SUPPORT IT AND THAT WOULD, UH, BE VISIBLE FROM THE, UH, FROM THE SOUTH. SO I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE DESIGN, UH, IDEAS BEHIND THIS LOCATION. AND DETAILING, HI, THIS IS FROM ORANGE BARREL. I, I'M HOPING YOU CAN HEAR ME. UM, YES, YES. YES. THANK THANKS FOR GIVING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO, TO SPEAK ABOUT THE SIGN. UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY OUR FIRST IS CONCERN IS SIGHTING. WE PICKED THIS LOCATION BECAUSE WE WANTED TO BE ON, YOU KNOW, THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO AVOID THE RIVERWALK, OBVIOUSLY. UM, AND AS YOU MENTIONED, WE DID ALIGN THIS WITH THE ARTICULATION. OUR FOCUS IS NOT THE FREEWAY WE'RE TRYING TO MAINTAIN, TO CAPTURE THE STREET VISIBILITY THAT YOU SEE RIGHT HERE. AND THERE'S, I MEAN, THERE'S TREES AND THINGS. IF WE LOWER IT, IT'S JUST NOT VISIBLE. BUT THAT SAID, UM, YOU KNOW, AROUND THAT TREE YOU CAN SEE RIGHT THERE. BUT WE COULD WORK ON, UM, I THINK WE'RE LIMITED BY THE 672 SQUARE FEET, UM, TDOT LIMITATION. BUT WE COULD MAYBE INCORPORATE, UH, LIKE A KIND OF SLENDER FRAME TO GIVE IT A BIT OF A MORE REFINED LOOK AROUND IT. UM, AS FOR THE BACK, OUR INTENT IS WE'RE, WE'RE, WE HAVE ENGINEERED DRAWINGS NOW AND WE CAN PREPARE A REAR ELEVATION. UM, THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS ASKED US ALSO TO TREAT THE REAR OF IT. SO WE ARE LOOKING AT EITHER PUTTING SOME KIND OF NICE PERFORATED PANELS OR A MURAL ON THE BACK SO THAT, UM, GUESTS WOULD LOOK DOWN AT IT. SO WE, WE, WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO, UM, REFINE FOR NOT ONLY VEHICULAR TRAFFIC, BUT GUESTS OF THE HOTEL. OKAY. AND ONE OTHER QUESTION. UM, IS IT NECESSARY TO HAVE THE, UH, SIGN COMPANIES OR WHOEVER THAT LITTLE, UH, UM, MANAGEMENT COMPANY'S NAME DOWN BELOW THE IMAGE, THE, THE SIGN ITSELF, AND HAVE IT THAT'S IN ILLUMINATED AN AND ILLUMINATED? WELL, THAT'S INDUSTRY BEST PRACTICE. UM, WE CAN LOOK AT ALTERNATE CONFIGURATIONS OF IT, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE OUR NAME THERE. UM, I MEAN, SHOULD ANYTHING HAPPEN WITH THE SIGN, WE WOULDN'T WANT THEM CONTACTING THE HOTEL. THEY WOULD KNOW TO CONTACT US. UM, I MEAN, WE REMOTELY MONITOR THESE SIGNS AND, AND WE, WE PAY ATTENTION TO THEM, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS LIKE UNEXPECTED, UM, YOU KNOW, PERIODICALLY THERE'LL BE UNEXPECTED WEATHER EVENTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND SO IT'S USEFUL FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW TO ACCESS US. SO WE'D LIKE TO KEEP IT VERY CLOSE TO THE SIGN FACE SO IT IS CLEAR THAT IT IS NOT HOTEL BRANDING. UM, BUT IF IT WAS WITHIN THE, THIS, THE SIGN ITSELF IN THAT LOWER LEFT CORNER, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UM, SO FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WOULD PROPOSE THAT. [00:40:01] THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT BECOMES DIFFICULT AS THE SIGN OPERATOR BECAUSE THEN OUR BRANDING GETS INCORPORATED INTO THE ADVERTISER CONTENT AND IT MAKES THE, IT TURNS INTO SORT OF A MIXED MESSAGE. SO GENERALLY THAT'S JUST NOT INDUSTRY PRACTICE. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SABINO? YES, THANK YOU MR. CHAIR. UH, COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UM, SO WHAT OTHER REGULATORY STEPS DO YOU NEED TO TAKE FOR THIS TO BE COMPLETE? UM, COMMISSIONER, JUST SO YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE, UM, RACHEL PARISH WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES WHO'S OVERSEEING THE, THE ENTIRE PERMITTING PROCESS. AND SO I THINK IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE REQUIREMENTS OR PERMITTING PROCESS, SHE'D PROBABLY BE THE BEST WITNESS ON THAT. OKAY. UM, ANYBODY CAN ANSWER IT. YEAH, NO, YOU'RE FINE. UM, SO I WANTED TO EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THIS PROCESS WORKS. COME UP HERE AND THE, AND TELL ALL OF US. I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH QUESTIONS. THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS THAT ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS. I'M SORRY, SHE HAD A MIC. YEAH, NOT A PROBLEM CAMERA. SO I AM RACHEL PARISH. I'M THE DSD ENGINEER OVER FIELD SERVICES, INCLUDING THE SIGN TEAM. WE WERE LEAD IN DEVELOPING AND, UM, CHANGING THIS PROGRAM WHENEVER, UH, CITY COUNCIL WOULD GIVE US FEEDBACK. UM, AND SO THIS IS AN ORDINANCE THAT WAS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL IN JULY, JULY 12TH OF THIS YEAR. SO THIS PROCESS THAT WE'VE DEVELOPED, THEY CAN COME TO HDRC AT ANY POINT IN THE PROCESS. I WANNA BE CLEAR, BECAUSE NOT ALL OF THESE WILL BE PER WILL WILL HAVE APPLICATIONS FOR PERMIT IN THE SYSTEM RIGHT NOW. THEY CAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THIS ONE HAS NOT APPLIED YET WITH US, BUT WE DO NOT ISSUE THE ACTUAL PERMITS FOR THESE IF YOU GUYS ARE REQUIRED TO SEE THEM UNTIL YOU HAVE APPROVED THEM. SO WE WILL HOLD THEM AT THAT POINT. BUT AS PART OF THE PROCESS, WHAT WILL END UP HAPPENING IS THEY WILL APPLY FOR THIS PERMIT. WE GO THROUGH THE REQUIREMENTS, UM, THAT ARE IN CHAPTER 28, INCLUDING THE AMENDMENTS THAT WERE DONE WITH THIS ORDINANCE. UH, WE REVIEW FOR COMPLIANCE OF ALL OF THESE. AND THEN WE ASK FOR A SERIES OF DOCUMENTS THAT ARE VERY UNIQUE TO THIS PROGRAM. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE REVENUE SHARING CONTRACT AND AGREEMENT WITH OUR ARTS DIVISION, UM, OUR ARTS AND CULTURE DEPARTMENT FOR THE REVENUE SHARING PART OF, UM, THIS AND THE ART COMPONENT. SO THE ART COMPONENT DOES NOT COME TO YOU AT THIS TIME BECAUSE ARTS HAS THEIR OWN PROCESS THAT THEY WILL BE GOING THROUGH, BUT THEY NEED TO KNOW WHICH SIGNS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE PUT UP BEFORE THEY CAN GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS. AND SO OUR ROLE IN THIS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THESE SIGNS GET THE APPROVALS NEEDED, AND THEN ARTS WILL GO AND WORK WITH THE BUILDING OWNER TO DEVELOP THE ART COMPONENT AND THEN COME BACK TO YOU WITH THE ART COMPONENT APPROVAL. AS PART OF THIS PROJECT APPLICATION, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO GET TEXT PERMITS. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO GET ANY OHP APPROVALS, ANY APPROVALS FOR HDRC, ANY NORMAL, UH, PROCESS RELATED APPROVALS SO THAT THE PERMIT ISSUANCE IS THE LAST STEP IN ALL OF THIS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ART COMPONENT. THAT WILL HAPPEN AFTERWARDS. OKAY. THANK YOU. THAT'S, UM, A LOT OF, A LOT OF GOOD POINTS. UM, BUT MS. PARRISH, CAN YOU GIVE US AN IDEA OF WHAT THE TIMELINE IS FOR A TXDOT PERMIT OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS? THE TIMELINE FOR T PERMIT RIGHT NOW, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND FROM FEEDBACK, IS ABOUT THREE MONTHS. UM, JUST WANNA GET AN IDEA OF WHAT KIND OF TIME WE'RE LOOKING AT FOR ALL OF THESE DECISIONS. RIGHT. AND SO ABOUT THREE MONTHS IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT MINIMUM FOR ANYTHING THAT'S ON TXDOT. UM, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO FROM TO TDOT IF IT'S NOT VISIBLE FROM A, UH, A ROADWAY. WE HAVE A MAP AS PART OF ALL OF THIS MM-HMM . IT'LL SHOW WHICH ONES ARE ELIGIBLE. UM, AND UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER FACTORS THAT GO IN THAT WE LOOK ON ALONG THE WAY. SURE. MM-HMM . YEAH. THIS ONE ESPECIALLY IS VERY VISIBLE FROM 37. RIGHT, EXACTLY. YEAH. AND SO THIS ONE WOULD DEFINITELY, UM, MY SECOND QUESTION IS FOR THE APPLICANT. MM-HMM . THANK YOU. OH, LET ME ASK MS. PARIS WHILE SHE'S OUT HERE. SURE. JUMP IN. SURE. NOT A PROBLEM. UM, I KNOW THIS IS A PILOT PROGRAM. YES, SIR. SO CONCEIVABLY, UH, IT COULD BE NOT EXTENDED IN WHICH CASE SEE SIGNS WOULD COME DOWN. IS THAT CORRECT? THEY WOULD NOT. THAT WAS ACTUALLY BROUGHT UP AS PART OF THE INPUT PROCESS DURING THE COUNCIL DECISION. THEY DID NOT PUT THE REQUIREMENT FOR THE SIGNS TO COME DOWN AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM. SO ANY SIGNS THAT ARE APPROVED IN THIS PROGRAM WILL STAY UP IN PERPETUITY UNTIL THEY MODIFY IT TO THE EXTENT THAT IT IS NO LONGER VIABLE AS PART OF THE PROGRAM. FOR EXAMPLE, IF THEY NO LONGER HAVE AN AGREEMENT TO HAVE THE ART ON THERE AND THE ART GETS TAKEN DOWN, NOW THEY DON'T COMPLY WITH THE PROGRAM. UM, OR IF, I MEAN, THERE, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT'LL TRIGGER THE FACT THAT THE [00:45:01] SIGN HAS TO COME UP TO CURRENT CODE AND IF THE CURRENT CODE DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROGRAM IN PLACE AFTER TWO YEARS, THEY WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO HAVE THE SIGN. BUT NO, THE PROGRAM ITSELF DOES NOT HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR THE SCIENCE TO COME DOWN. OKAY. THANK YOU. I'LL HAVE ONE MOMENT PLEASE. MS. PARISH, UM, COMMISSIONER GROUP. YEAH, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR HER TOO. SURE. SO I NEED, I WANNA UNDERSTAND MORE OF THIS PROGRAM TOO. SO THERE'S EIGHT DISTRICTS, THESE ARE THE FIRST THREE WITHIN THOSE ADDITIONAL 10 SIGNS THAT WILL BE APPROVED? CORRECT. SO, UM, WE ARE ALLOWING BASICALLY AS MANY PEOPLE TO APPLY AS FOR THIS AS POSSIBLE. WHAT HAPPENS IS WE HAVE THE EIGHT DISTRICTS AND ONLY THREE ARE ALLOWED IN EACH DISTRICT. THE THREE THAT ARE GOING TO BE ALLOWED IN THE DISTRICTS ARE THE FIRST ONE TO HIT THE FINISH LINE IN PERMITTING. SO WHEN WE ISSUE THAT PERMIT, THEY LOCK IN THEIR SPOT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS. OKAY. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE DISTRICTS, WHAT DISTRICT DOES THIS FALL UNDER? THIS IS THE DOWNTOWN EAST DISTRICT? YES, THE DOWNTOWN EAST. THE THREE THAT YOU ARE HEARING TODAY SHOULD ALL BE DOWNTOWN EAST. SO THEY WILL ALL BE IN THAT ONE DISTRICT. YES, MA'AM. SO THAT LEAVES, UH, SEVEN SIGNS FOR THE OTHER EIGHT DISTRICTS. UM, SO TWO, TWO OF THEM WILL BE RESERVED FOR THE CITY. SO, UM, THAT WILL GO THROUGH A COMPLETELY SEPARATE RFP PROCESS. SO RIGHT NOW THERE WILL BE EIGHT AS THIS PART OF THE PROGRAM THAT WILL BE PERMITTED, UM, IN THIS WAY. SO, UH, IF WE ASSUME THAT ALL THREE OF THESE ARE APPROVED AND MAKE IT ALL THE WAY TO PERMITTING, THEN YES, THESE COULD BE THE THREE FOR THIS DISTRICT. BUT AS YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS THAT EACH DISTRICT CAN HAVE BASICALLY ALL EIGHT? NO, MA'AM. OKAY. NO ONE DISTRICT CANNOT HAVE, AND THEN TWO COMMISSIONER FETZER'S, UH, QUESTION ABOUT THAT ADDED THE BRANDING AND ALL THAT, IS THERE A SIZE LIMIT? AND DO YOU HAVE ALSO ANY, UM, CONCERNS ABOUT HOW THIS IS MOUNTED ON THE BUILDINGS? SO AS PART OF IT, ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE ARE GETTING IS VERIFICATION FROM A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER THAT THE BUILDING'S BEEN EVALUATED AND THAT IT CAN SUPPORT THIS STRUCTURE. UM, AND THEN AS FAR AS SIGNS, LIMITS, THEY CAN BE UP TO 25% OF THE BUILDING FACADE, BUT GENERALLY TEXT REGULATIONS ARE GONNA BE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN OURS. UM, AND I DID WANT TO GO BACK A SECOND BECAUSE I WANNA, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I'M CLEAR AND I MAY HAVE MISHEARD YOU. SO NOT ALL EIGHT CAN GO INTO ONE DISTRICT? NO, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE ONE IN EVERY DISTRICT. EVERY DISTRICT HAS A MAXIMUM OF THREE, BUT THERE IS NO MINIMUM. OH. BUT YEAH, I REMEMBER NOW. YEAH, THE THREE. OKAY. I KNOW IT'S JUST KIND OF A SHAME THAT YOU PUT THREE IN ONE DISTRICT , UH, WHEN IT'S A PILOT PROGRAM. UM, AND THEN I GUESS TO THAT QUESTION AGAIN, IT'S, SO HOW DOES THAT BRAND FALL INTO THIS? BECAUSE YOU, YOU TALK ABOUT REVENUE SHARING, YOU TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS TO BE A PERCENTAGE FOR THE CITY AND, AND ALL THAT. SO HOW DOES THAT LOGO AND THE, AND THE COMPANY ORANGE BARREL FALL INTO THAT? THE LOGO? WE REALLY DON'T HAVE AN OPINION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ON, THAT'S MORE OF A MARKETING THING. OKAY. BUT FOR US IT'S SIGNAGE. SO, AND THAT'S WHAT MAYBE STAFF, 'CAUSE IT SAYS THAT EVERYTHING SHOULD CONFORM TO EXISTING LAWS. DOES SIGNAGE NOT FALL UNDER THIS? BECAUSE LIKE OUR SIGNING OUR SIGNAGE LAWS GUIDELINES, WE DO. SO AS PART OF THE DIGITAL MEDIA AND ARTS ORDINANCE, IT DID REVISE OUR CHAPTER EIGHT, UH, 28 FOR OUR SIGN CODE. IT DID REVISE IT, WHICH MEANS THAT WE'RE NOW ALLOWING A SIGN BIGGER THAN 50 SQUARE FOOT. YES MA'AM. AS PART OF THIS PROGRAM, IT CAN BE UP TO 25% OF THE BUILDING FACADE WITH OTHER RESTRICTIONS. AND, AND THE MAJOR THAT IS, THAT IS OURS AS PART OF THE DIGITAL MEDIA AND ARTS, LIKE I SAID, THERE ARE OTHER PORTIONS OF CODE THAT THEY NEED TO COMPLY WITH, WHICH WILL LIKELY BRING THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE DOWN. BUT THIS PARTICULAR , OH, THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. IS OUR CODE, LIKE FOR HISTORIC DISTRICTS, DOES THAT FALL UNDER THAT? SO, I MEAN, THE MAJOR THING THAT THE PILOT DID IS IT ALLOWS FOR THE OFF-PREMISE SIGN. AND SO ESSENTIALLY A BILLBOARD, SO YOUR ADVERTISING SERVICES AND GOODS THAT ARE NOT PRESENT ON THE PROPERTY. AND SO THAT WOULD INCLUDE ORANGE BARREL. ORANGE BARREL DOESN'T LIVE AT THIS PROPERTY AND IT'S OFF PREMISE, BUT THAT IS ALLOWED UNDER THIS PILOT. UM, NOW, SO WE HAVE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR SIGNAGE ON HISTORIC PROPERTIES. WE JUST REVIEWED, UM, TWO REQUESTS. UM, UNDER THOSE GUIDELINES, THOSE DON'T REALLY APPLY BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE A SIGN ON A HISTORIC BUILDING UNDER THIS POLICY. UM, SO THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD APPLY REALLY IS RIO. UM, RIO DOES, AS YOU KNOW, HAVE SIMILAR, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR LIKE TOTAL NUMBER OF SIGNS FOR A BUSINESS. AND SO THIS IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT IS OFF-PREMISE ADVERTISING. UM, UNDER THE PILOT, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, UM, LARGER PARAMETERS THAT IT WOULD HAVE TO MEET. UM, BUT NO, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO MEET LIKE THE REQUIREMENTS OF RIO IN ORDER TO BE APPROVED BY THIS COMMISSION. WHAT WE'RE ASKING YOU ALL TO DO, AND WHAT THE ORDINANCE SAYS IS THAT IF IT IS IN RIO OR IF IT IS POTENTIALLY IMPACTING A HISTORIC PROPERTY, THAT YOU ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY IN THE PROCESS. AND SO I KNOW, BUT OUR GUIDELINES ARE, THERE'S NO [00:50:01] GUIDELINES OF OURS THAT APPLY HERE. SO IT'S KIND OF, MY THING IS LIKE, WHAT'S OUR PURVIEW HERE? BECAUSE THERE'S DMA GUIDELINES AND THEN OUR GUIDELINES ARE NOT VALID. SO WHAT, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT? HOW DO WE ACTUALLY APPROVE THIS BY SAYING, WELL, I MEAN PERSONAL OPINION OR NO, WE DON'T GET HOW IT'S CONNECTED TO THE, BECAUSE IN THIS THREE CASES YOU ARE ALL SAYING THAT THIS IS NOT, NOT A HISTORIC PART, AN HISTORIC BUILDING. SO TWO OF THEM ARE RIGHT. THEY'RE NOT ON THE HISTORIC PART OF THE BUILDING. THIS SIGN IS NOT CONSIDERED A HISTORIC BUILDING. SO YOU ALL RECOMMENDING APPROVAL, BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT ARE WE, WHAT IS OUR SAY, WHAT ARE OUR GUIDELINES? 'CAUSE I MEAN, IF THE DMAR GUIDELINES, WELL THEN OKAY, FINE. BUT THAT'S NOT OUR PURVIEW. SO THAT'S WHY I'M HAVING A HARD TIME FIGURING OUT IS WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TO ACTUALLY APPROVE. MR CHAIR, MAY I ASK A QUICK QUESTION ALSO TO CONFIRM, IS THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE NOT RELEVANT HERE TYPICALLY FOR A D DISTRICT D ZONING THAT WOULD BE IN PLACE? YEAH. SO THERE WERE NOT SPECIFIC POLICIES FOR DESIGN AND PLACEMENT AND MATERIALS THAT WERE ADOPTED UNDER THE PILOT. UM, WHAT WAS ADOPTED WAS THAT IT WOULD COME TO YOU ALL FOR RECOMMENDATION AND YOUR PURVIEW IS THE BUILDING. ESSENTIALLY, YOU ALREADY HAVE PURVIEW OVER ALTERATIONS TO ANY BUILDING WITHIN RIO OR HISTORIC PROPERTIES. AND SO, UM, SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT COME UP REGARDING KIND OF PROPORTION AND ALIGNING WITH ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS, UM, UNDERSTANDING THE VISUAL IMPACTS OF THE STRUCTURE, THOSE ARE ALL VALID QUESTIONS FOR THE INSTALLATION OF SOMETHING PHYSICAL LIKE THIS. UM, BUT TO COMMISSIONER GRU'S POINT, YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL POLICY FOR THE ACTUAL DESIGN OF THESE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN ADOPTED INTO THE PILOT. UM, AND, AND SO NO, THE, THE DECISION MAKING SHOULD NOT BE ARBITRARY OR OPINION BASED, BUT YOU DO HAVE THE ABILITY TO REVIEW THESE BASED ON THE ARCHITECTURAL IMPACT TO THE PROPERTIES. WELL, MR. CHAIR, AND JUST, CAN I FINISH THIS LAST THING ON THAT? SO WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY, UM, BRIEFING ON THIS, AND I DON'T WANT THIS TO BECOME A DISCUSSION OF OPINION OR DESIGN. SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK MY COMMISSIONERS IF MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN MOVE TO DRC. BECAUSE WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS THEY GET CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THEN THEY'LL GO AND ACTUALLY ASK FOR A PERMIT, BUT THEN IT WOULD ALREADY HAVE OUR APPROVAL. RIGHT? IT DOESN'T COME BACK TO US AGAIN. EVER. THE THING THAT WOULD COME BACK IS THE PUBLIC ART COMPONENT. SO MR. CHAIR, ONE MOMENT PLEASE. CHAIR, I GOT SOMEONE AHEAD OF YOU. UM, WAS THAT, UM, THE BALANCE OF YOUR QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER GROUP? THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER CERVANTES. YEAH, THANK YOU. MY CONCERNS ARE VERY SIMILAR. SO, BUT BOTTOM LINE, WHAT HAPPENS IF WE SAY NO ON THIS? THE A JUST LIKE ANY REQUEST FOR COA, THE APPLICANT COULD PROPOSE A REVISED APPLICATION OR A DIFFERENT LOCATION. OH, OKAY. UM, YEAH, I WOULD SUPPORT A DRC IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO DO THAT. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A DIGITAL SIGN IN THE WORLD THAT MATCHES WITH ANY HISTORIC BUILDING IN, IN THE CITY, SO. WELL, AND SO, YEAH, JUST TO CLARIFY, I THINK PEOPLE AGREE WITH THAT. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE COMPONENTS OF THE PILOT ORDINANCE IS THAT IT CANNOT BE LOCATED ON HISTORIC PROPERTY. AND SO PART OF THE, UM, REVIEW HERE IS CONFIRMING THAT YOU ALL AGREE THAT THERE'S NOT AN IMPACT TO HISTORIC BUILDINGS, OR YOU'RE CONFIRMING THAT YOU AGREE THAT, UM, THIS IS AN INSTALLATION THAT AFFECTS AN HISTORIC BUILDING. THIS BUILDING IS NOT HISTORIC. THIS IS COMING TO YOU FOR RIO. AND SO AGAIN, YOU CAN REVIEW IT. SIMILAR TO THE FIRST CASE TODAY, THERE WAS COMMENTS ABOUT THE PLACEMENT OF THE SIGN IN TERMS OF THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUILDING AND WHERE IT SHOULD FIT AND THAT SORT OF THING. THAT'S ALL RELEVANT HERE AND THAT'S ALL SOMETHING YOU CAN DISCUSS WITHIN THE, THE PARAMETERS OF RIO. UM, BUT THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT DIGITAL SHOULD BE ALLOWED HERE HAS ALREADY BEEN ANSWERED BY CITY COUNCIL. MR. CHAIR, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. GO AHEAD. OKAY, MA'AM. OKAY. UM, UM, FOR A SIGN THIS SIZE AS PROPOSED, WHAT IS THE WEIGHT OF THE SIGN? UH, I CAN DO A QUICK CALCULATION. IT'S 15 POUNDS PER SQUARE FOOT. PER SQUARE. OKAY. UM, AND WOULD IT BE YOUR FIRM OR WHO WOULD DO THE DRAWINGS FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF IT AND THE CLADDING THAT YOU MENTIONED? UM, SO IT'S ABOUT A THOUSAND POUNDS. OUR, OUR FIRM, IT CONTRACTS, WE'VE CONTRACTED A GROUP CALLED A NC. THEY'RE A DESIGN BUILD CONTRACTOR. SO THEY WILL SIGN, SEAL, ALL OF THE DRAWINGS THEY'VE COMPLETED. WE HAVE A FULL SET OF ARCHITECTURAL STRUCTURAL DRAWINGS FROM THEM THAT WE ARE GOING TO [00:55:01] BE SUBMITTING IN THE NEAR FUTURE. UM, AND THEY WOULD ALSO BUILD IT. OKAY. SO, BUT THAT IS A REQUIREMENT FOR THE PERMIT ALSO CORRECT? TO HAVE THOSE SEALED DRAWINGS? YES. WE, WE WILL HAVE THEM SUBMITTED AS SOON AS WE FINISH A LITTLE PAPERWORK. YEAH, THAT'D BE REALLY HELPFUL TO SEE. UM, BUT WITH THAT IN MIND, UM, DID YOU GUYS EXPLORE BRINGING DOWN THAT SIGN INTO THE NEXT, INTO THE LOWER BAND OF THE BUILDING TO BETTER INTEGRATE IT INTO THE BUILDING? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS VERY, UM, LIKE AN AFTERTHOUGHT. UM, DID YOU ALL EXPLORE THAT? WE, WE DID CONSIDER IT, IT LIMITED ITS VISIBILITY BECAUSE OF THE ADJACENT TREES. UM, AND WE OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WANT TO, UH, IMPACT THOSE TREES. UM, ON YOUR ELEVATION, YOUR PHOTO ELEVATION, IT LOOKS PRETTY VISIBLE TO ME. YES. SO THAT'S, THAT'S A GREAT POINT. UM, IF WE WERE TO PULL BACK A LITTLE FURTHER, YOU CAN SEE, UM, AND IF YOU WERE TO KIND OF PAN TO THE LEFT, YOU CAN SEE THOSE TREES, UM, THOSE TREES MAKE THE VISIBILITY A PRETTY SHORT WINDOW. SO WE OBVIOUSLY WE PICK THIS VANTAGE, UM, SO THAT WE COULD, WE COULD BEST CONVEY HOW THE BUILDING FITS TOGETHER WITH THE SIGN. BUT YES, YOU CAN SEE THIS, THIS TREE CANOPY IS, UM, THAT'S WHAT DRIVES THE VISIBILITY. YES. IT'S STILL VISIBLE THOUGH FROM EVEN THIS, UH, POINT OF VIEW. UM, THANK YOU ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ. WELL, I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT, IF IT WASN'T, UH, WORTH BRINGING TO THE COMMISSION FOR DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT WE THINK IS, UM, UH, WHAT IT IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. BECAUSE IF, IF ALL THE DIFFERENT REGULATIONS ARE TO SOMEWHAT WITH RESPECT TO ANY OPINION THAT WE COULD GIVE, THEY DOVETAIL WITH EACH OTHER. WHAT'S APPROPRIATE? WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE PLACE ON A BUILDING, WHETHER IT'S BECAUSE THE BUILDING IS A BUILDING IN RIO OR BECAUSE THE PURVIEW IS HISTORIC AND IT'S INAPPROPRIATE FOR A HISTORIC BUILDING, IT SEEMS THEY, ALL OF THOSE CONSIDERATIONS DOVETAIL WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THAT. IF CITY COUNCIL'S ALREADY MADE THIS DECISION, THAT GIVES THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE ISN'T ANY WAY THAT ANYBODY CAN SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THESE BUILDINGS IF THEY'RE NOT ON, OR THESE, THESE MARQUEES, IF THEY'RE NOT ON MR. CHAIR HISTORIC STRUCTURES. I'M SORRY. ASK YOUR QUESTION AGAIN. COMMISSIONER GROUP. NO, WE'RE, THIS IS QUESTIONS. WE DON'T HAVE A MOTION. WELL, MR. CHAIR, WE'RE ALSO NOT FOLLOWING THE CLOCK. RIGHT. WE'RE ALSO, YOU KNOW, TALKING FOR 10 MINUTES AND THEY'RE, I MEAN, IF, IF WE'RE GONNA BE LAX WITH THE RULES, LET'S BE LAX WITH THE RULES. IF WE'RE GONNA BE TIGHT WITH THE RULES, LET'S BE TIGHT WITH THE RULES. BUT DON'T START WITH ME, PLEASE. I APPRECIATE IF YOU DON'T START WITH ME, I DO A MOTIONS. ARE WE GO INTO DISCUSSION. WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS PERHAPS WE COULD HAVE A DISCUSSION BEFORE WE, WE MAKE A MOTION THAT THAT IS A MOTION BASED ON THE SIGN. LET'S HAVE A MOTION THEN WE CAN GO FURTHER INTO DISCUSSION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, MR. CHAIR, THAT WE HAVE, THAT WE ENTER INTO DISCUSSION WITH THE COMMISSION OVER WHAT WE UNDERSTAND OUR PURVIEW IS HERE. SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THAT? OKAY. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE, MA'AM? AYE. SAVINO. AYE. VELAZQUEZ AYE. GALLOWAY AYE. ZUKA. AYE. GIDA. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES. YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD SIR. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. MR. CHAIR. WE HAVE THREE OF THESE CASES BEFORE US. THEY'RE, THEY'RE, I WOULD SAY PRETTY MUCH IDENTICAL. I CAN TELL YOU THE ONE THAT, THAT THAT I THINK SPEAKS THE LOUDEST. THIS ONE IS PRETTY, PRETTY LOUD THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WITH RESPECT TO DROPPING IT, IT ALSO SEEMS TO MITIGATE THE HIGHWAY SITUATION, RIGHT? AND THE, AND THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT IS THAT IT'S FOR THE VISUAL, UM, UH, IMPACT WITH PEOPLE THAT WAY. SO THERE, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF ARGUMENTS WE'RE GONNA GET INTO AS TO WHY IT HAS TO BE UP THERE. AND I MEAN, IF YOU'RE IN THE SIGN BUSINESS, OBVIOUSLY YOU WANT EVERYBODY TO SEE IT, INCLUDING THE PEOPLE ON THE HIGHWAY. BUT WHEN WE GET TO THE SIGN, THAT'S AN AUDITORIUM CIRCLE THAT IS A SACRED SPACE IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. THAT'S A SPACE WITH A MUNICIPAL AUDITORIUM THAT'S A SPACE WITH ONE OF THE FINEST, UH, EXAMPLES OF, UH, TERRACOTTA IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES. AND I KNOW, 'CAUSE I WORKED ON THAT PROJECT, IT'S VERY, VERY, VERY PRECIOUS ARCHITECTURE. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT APPROPRIATENESS, UH, IT'S HARD, IT'S GONNA BE HARD FOR US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT APPROPRIATENESS MEANS WHEN IT'S, [01:00:01] UM, UM, UM, BOUNCED OFF OF, UH, THAT CITY COUNCIL'S ALREADY SAID THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE THAT DIGITAL SIGNAGE IS APPROPRIATE. UM, SO IS IT, IT IT WOULD, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT IT'S ALMOST NOT ALLOWED FOR US TO SAY THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE. AND JUST USING THE ONE ON AUDITORIUM CIRCLE, BECAUSE THE, THE BUILDING NEXT TO IT IS NOT A HISTORIC BUILDING, BUT THE ONE NEXT TO IT IS, AND, AND, AND A AND A AND AGAIN, A PRECIOUS PIECE OF ARCHITECTURE. SO ARE WE BEING ASKED TO BLESS A CULTURAL CHANGE IN THE ATTITUDE OF SIGNAGE DOWNTOWN BECAUSE CITY COUNCIL PASSED THAT ORDINANCE? OR ARE WE GIVEN THE POWER TO SAY YES, BUT NOT THERE? UM, BECAUSE IN ADDITION TO THE RIDICULOUS SCALE UNDER THE, UNDER THE, THE, THE UMBRELLA OF ART, UH, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT LUMENS, UH, THE POTENTIAL FOR THESE THINGS TO GO OFF THE, THE FACT THAT THEY MOVE AND THEY FLASH AND, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK AN EASILY AN EASY ARGUMENT THAT, UM, 50% SIGN, 50% ART IS A SIGN. AND THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO STIPULATION THAT THESE SIGNS ARE GONNA LEAVE AT ANY GIVEN TIME, THAT THEY MAY END UP BEING PERMANENT BILLBOARDS. UH, WE LOOK AT, UH, TIMES SQUARE. THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME INTELLIGENCE BEHIND WHAT NEW YORK IS TRYING TO ACHIEVE IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE. BUT WE LOOK AT SPORADIC PLACEMENT THROUGHOUT DOWNTOWN. THAT ITSELF HASN'T QUITE FOUND ITS IDENTITY. IT, IT, I, I MEAN, I WONDER WHAT OUR ROLE AS A, AS A COMMISSION IS MR. CHAIR, TO FORMULATE THE PATTERN OF A NEW DIGITAL CULTURE DOWNTOWN. AND I'M REALLY INTERESTED TO FIND OUT WHERE FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ARE. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, FURTHER DISCUSSION FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING. GO AHEAD MA'AM. PLEASE. AND I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONER, UM, VELAZQUEZ STAFF CLARIFIED IT'S NOT ABOUT, WE'RE NOT HERE TO DISCUSS APPROPRIATENESS OF THE SIGNAGE DIGITAL SIGNS IN DOWNTOWN. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APPROPRIATENESS TO THAT SPECIFIC BUILDING. EACH CASE IT'S SEPARATE. SO, AND AT NO POINT ARE WE BEING ASKED TO DISCUSS A APPROPRIATENESS OF DIGITAL SIGNS, NO PERSONAL OPINION OR DESIGNING THE ART. UM, I, WHEN I DO A MOTION, IT'S NOT WHETHER IT'S A YES OR A NO MOTION OF FOR OR AGAINST. THERE'S ALSO AN OPTION TO MOVE THIS TO A DRC, WHICH IS WHAT I WANTED BECAUSE I THINK THAT, UM, COMMISSIONER FETZER WOULD TOUCHING ON SOMETHING, EACH OF THESE SIGNS SHOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE TO THE BUILDING. AND EVEN IF WE WOULD JUST WANNA LOOK AT, UH, THE BOWIE ONE, IF YOU WANNA, UH, EDWARD, PULL UP THE DRAWING. I THINK WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT WHEN WE DO SIGN A, ALIGN IT WITH HISTORIC ELEMENTS OF THE BUILDING, WHILE THERE'S NO ALIGNMENT HERE. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE COULD BE A FURTHER DISCUSSION, I DON'T WISH TO DESIGN A SIGN ON THE DAIS. SO WHAT I WAS GOING FOR WAS A MOTION FOR A DRC. THANK YOU. YES. COMMISSIONER SANTES. YEAH, I DEFINITELY, UH, SEE SOME OF WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER VASQUEZ IS SAYING. UH, AND I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER GR THAT WE NEED TO MOVE THIS TO A-D-D-R-C. AND I WONDER IF WE EVEN NEED A SUBCOMMITTEE TO LOOK AT THE OVERALL IMPACT OF, UH, UH, UH, UH, TO UPDATING EITHER THE DRC GUIDELINES OR, OR STAFF GUIDELINES OR WHATEVER IT IS THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT TO KIND OF HAVE A, SOME SORT OF OVERVIEW ON THIS, UH, THE DIGITAL SIGN THAT'S GONNA BE GOING ON THROUGHOUT THE CITY, PARTICULARLY IN THE HISTORIC AREAS, AREAS RATHER. UM, BUT I WOULD SUPPORT A-A-D-R-C. THANK YOU. VICE CHAIR. PROFESSOR. YES. I WOULD ALSO SUPPORT A DRC. UM, THESE ARE THE FIRST SIGNS COMING TO US BASED ON THIS NEW ORDINANCE. AND, UH, IT MAY TAKE SOME DISCUSSION WITH THE DESIGNERS AND, UH, SOME CASES MAY BE, UH, MORE APPROPRIATE. BUT, UH, THIS ONE DEFINITELY I THINK NEEDS TO COME TO A DRC WHERE WE CAN HAVE A MORE IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION ABOUT, UH, WHERE AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION AND SIZE WOULD BE FOR THIS SIGN. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER FEER, ARE YOU, UM, STATING THAT, UH, DRC WOULD BE SUGGESTED FOR NOT ONLY, UM, BOWIE STREET, BUT THEN THE OTHER TWO AS WELL? SO FOR ALL THREE, UM, CASES, WE, I, WE CAN'T DO ALL THREE AT ONCE. WE NEED TO DISCUSS, DISCUSS EACH OF THOSE CAN ALL THREE AT ONCE, BUT GOTCHA. [01:05:01] GOTCHA. THANK YOU. I'LL SPEAK TO THAT WHEN THEY COME UP. MR. CHAIR. UM, I BELIEVE RACHEL HAD A CLARIFICATION THAT SHE WANTED TO MAKE. OKAY. GO AHEAD MA'AM. I JUST WANTED TO BE CLEAR. I KNOW, UM, A COUPLE OF THE CONCERNS THAT CAME UP HAD TO DO WITH THE FLASHING AND THE LUMENS. THOSE ARE REGULATED IN THE SIGN CODE. THEY DO NEED TO COMPLY WITH THOSE AS WELL. WELL, LET ME JUST CLARIFY THAT ONE MOMENT PLEASE, SIR. DON, DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING? YOU'RE GOOD. OKAY. GO AHEAD SIR. JUST TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE BUILDING IN AUTO TERM CIRCLE. SEE, SEE, THIS IS, THIS IS THE REASON WHY TALK ABOUT A CULTURAL CHANGE IS BECAUSE ON THE BUILDING, THAT'S ONE THING. THAT'S A SIGN ON A BUILDING THAT'S A PIECE OF ART ON A BUILDING. BUT WHEN THE THING STARTS TO ILLUMINATE AND IT STARTS TO CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT OF THESE SACRED SPACES, NOW IT ALMOST GIVES THE HDRC THE CAPABILITY TO SAY, LOOK, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY NOT HAVE CONSIDERED. BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MOST DEFINITELY REFLECTS, UM, UH, A CHANGE OF THE OVERARCHING ENVIRONMENT THAT IS CREATED BY THESE SACRED SPACES. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S LIKE AS IF YOU WENT INTO THE MIDDLE OF PRAGUE AND YOU PUT UP A DIGITAL SIGN. CLEARLY YOU CAN JUST LOOK AT THE SIGN AND YOU COULD SAY, THAT THING OVER THERE IS FLASHING. IF YOU WANNA IGNORE THE FACT THAT IT'S FLASHING ON ALL THE BUILDINGS AROUND IT. SO NOW THE BUILDINGS ARE, ARE PRODUCT OF, THEY'RE COLOR CHANGES OF EVERY EXPERIENCE THAT A PERSON CAN WALK INTO A SPACE LIKE THAT AND SAY, THIS IS WHAT IT REALLY IS UNAFFECTED. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE AUDIT TERM CIRCLE SPACE, FOR INSTANCE, MR. CHAIR, UH, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT SEEM THAT THEY HAVE TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. POINT OF ORDER. CAN WE DISCUSS THEM WHEN WE GET TO THAT ITEM? ALRIGHT. WE'RE ONLY ON ITEM NUMBER FOUR RIGHT NOW. SO THEN, WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING TO, IS THAT PERHAPS THE THREE COULD BE MOTION FOR DRC AS A SLATE. IS THAT AS A, AS A WE'LL DEAL WITH THEM AS THEY COME UP. SO, UH, WE'LL MAKE A MOTION. WELL, WE HAVE A MOTION OF, WE DON'T HAVE A MOTION YET, BUT ONCE WE HAVE A MOTION, I'LL DO A MOTION. MR. CHAIR. ALRIGHT THEN WE'LL FORWARD. GO AHEAD. COMMISSIONER GROUP. THANK YOU. A MOTION TO MOVE TO DRC. SECOND. SECOND. BEEN MOVED. I PROPERLY SECOND, SIR. AND LET ME JUST ADD TO THIS ALSO TO, UM, TO THE CITY. I THINK IT IS, UH, REALLY TO DISCUSS WHERE OUR ROLE IS NOT TO CHANGE THE ORDINANCE. WE CANNOT DO THAT. WE UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND NOW. THERE'S AN ORDINANCE HERE IN THE PILOT PROGRAM, UH, REALLY DISCUSS THE SIGNAGE, SIZE PROPORTIONS TO HISTORIC ELEMENTS AND MAKE IT LOOK, I WOULD ASK TO THIS DRC IF YOU COULD ACTUALLY BRING KIND OF ALSO A SITE PLAN LIKE FROM THE STREET IF YOU'RE SAYING YOU CHOSE THIS LOCATION BECAUSE OF THE TREES. SO SOMETHING THAT VISUALLY WILL HELP US UNDERSTAND HOW THE TREES PLAY A ROLE IN HERE. AND ALSO MAYBE, UH, OVERALL WITH THE WHOLE BUILDING, IF YOU CAN BRING THAT TO THE SPECIFIC TO THIS CASE TO THE DRC. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? MAMON? AYE. SAVINO? AYE. VELASQUEZ. AYE. GALLOWAY. AYE. ZUKA. AYEDA. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER FIVE, PLEASE. COMMISSIONERS, UH, THE APPLICANT, ASHLEY FAIRMAN IS HERE IN PERSON. UH, AND JUST LIKE, UH, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, WE HAVE, UH, UPDATED DOCUMENTS OR ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS THAT CAN BE SHOWN FOR ITEM NUMBER FIVE. MR. CHAIR, BASED ON LAST DISCUSSION, I WOULD LIKE TO DO A MOTION, ONE MOMENT ON THAT COMMISSIONER GROUP. UM, 'CAUSE COMMISSIONER, PROFESSOR POOL, THIS CASE, I'M GONNA SAY IF HE HE HAS ANY QUESTIONS, FIRST OF ALL, WE DO THAT. YES. UH, JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS AND THEN I WOULD SUPPORT A MOTION TO DRC. UM, THE ORIGINAL SUBMITTAL HAS THE ON THE SITE PLAN SHOWS THE SIGN LOCATION ON THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE BUILDING. ON ONE OF THE NEW DRAWINGS, THE ELEVATION OF THE SOUTH WALL SHOWS A SIGN ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF THE BUILDING. JUST CLAR CLARIFYING, WHAT IS THE LOCATION FOR THE PROPOSED SIGN? WAS THE, UM, THE ARCHITECTURAL DRAWING PUT IN THE LATE SUBMISSION THERE? YOU HAD IT THERE. YEAH, I KNOW. I'M GOING, TRYING TO FIND THE ONE IN THE NEW PACK. THERE IT IS. UM, COMMISSIONER FETZER, UM, SORRY. ASHLEY FAIRMONT KILLING GRIFFIN AND FAIRMONT, UH, THE INTENT IS [01:10:01] FOR THE RENDERED SIGN. IF YOU CAN PULL UP THE, THE SOUTHWEST CORNER. SO THE SOUTHWEST CORNER? YES, SIR. AS OPPOSED TO THE SOUTHEAST CORNER. YES, SIR. OKAY. UM, AGAIN, I HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THIS, UH, CURVED SIGN ON A, UH, VERY RECLINE AND, AND CUBIC, UH, BUILDING. UH, WHAT IS YOUR ACTUAL AUDIENCE WITH ONE WAY STREETS? YOU KNOW, ARE YOU REALLY GONNA SEE THE SIGN, UH, THE LOCATION ON THE BUILDING IN TERMS OF ALIGNING WITH SPAN PANELS AND WINDOWS? UH, BUT WE CAN GET INTO ALL THAT. UH, SHOULD THIS GET SENT TO DRC? SURE. AND, AND I HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE SIGN COMPANY. THEY'RE VIRTUAL HERE AS WELL, AND WE CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS OR BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE LAST CASE, I THINK WE WOULD BE SUPPORTIVE OF GOING TO A DRC MEETING AS WELL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER GROUP. I HAVE MOVED TO A, MOVED THIS CASE TO A TRC. SECOND, BEEN MOVED. I PROPERLY SECOND FURTHER DISCUSSION. AND I THINK ALL THESE QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONER FRAZER, ARE REALLY, REALLY GOOD. I, I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE LATE FILES AND I DON'T KNOW IF ALL THESE QUESTIONS WOULD BE ANSWERED, UH, HERE ON THE DIOCESE. AND I THINK THAT DEEPER DISCUSSION IS REALLY IMPORTANT. AND THE REASON FOR THE DRCI ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SEE, AND I KNOW IT'S NOT PART OF THE ORDINANCE OR I DON'T UNDERSTAND, LIKE, BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT HOW IT IMPACTS THE HISTORIC BUILDING VISUALLY, I ALSO REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE, UM, HOW THEY ARE ATTACHED TO THE HISTORIC BUILDING. IF, IF IT'S UNDER A PURVIEW. I, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, THIS, BUT THIS BUILDING IS ALSO NOT HISTORIC. THE SIGNS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS, SO IT'LL NEVER BE A HISTORIC BUILDING. IT'LL ALWAYS BE NON HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN RIO OR SOME OTHER PROPERTY THAT'S UNDER YOUR PURVIEW. OKAY. SO YEAH, YOU'RE CONSIDER RIGHT. AND THEN I ALSO ASK IF HOW, UM, THIS BUILDING RELATES TO THE, THERE IS A HISTORIC BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET, RIGHT? BUT I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONER FETZER'S QUESTIONS AGAIN, LIKE SAME WAY. WHAT, WHAT'S, HOW DOES A HEIGHT PLAY? WHY DID YOU CHOOSE THAT HEIGHT? HOW DOES IT CORRELATE WITH BOTH SIDES OF THE BUILDING? UM, AND HOW DOES IT, YOU KNOW, VISUALLY GO WITH MAYBE THE ADJACENT HISTORIC BUILDINGS? THANK YOU. OTHER QUESTIONS? UM, WE STILL HAVE ONE MORE, RIGHT? THAT WE'RE RIGHT. I'LL SAY COMMENT FOR THE LAST ONE. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I HAVE A COMMENT ON THIS ONE AND THE PREVIOUS ONE ALSO, I THINK THIS REALLY GOES TO THE POINT THAT EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE DESIGN GUIDELINES, WE'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE DESIGN DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE PER SE. THE SPIRIT OF THOSE DOCUMENTS NEEDS TO BE OBSERVED AND CONSIDERED IN THIS VERY HISTORIC SETTING. UM, TRUE THIS BUILDING HERE IS NOT HISTORIC, UH, OR DESIGNATED HISTORIC. IT IS A BUILDING OF ITS TIME, PROBABLY IN ANOTHER CONDITION OR D DIFFERENT SITUATION. IT COULD BE DESIGNATED HISTORIC, BUT IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE SIGNAGE OR THE SIGNAGE AS IT FITS WITHIN THE SPIRIT OF THE ARCHITECTURAL STYLE THAT IS ESSENTIAL IN PULLING THIS OFF. AND ALSO TO WHAT, UM, MY COLLEAGUE, UM, MENTIONED, WHAT DOES IT DO TO THE SPACE, THE SURROUNDING SPACE OF LANDMARKS ACROSS THE STREET IN EVERY DIRECTION? AND IF WE KEEP THAT IN MIND AS WE GO TO THE DRCS FOR THIS ONE AND THE PREVIOUS ONE, UM, MY HOPE IS THAT WE CAN, UH, DEVELOP A KIND OF DISPLAY THAT WILL MAKE THIS UNIQUE AND, UM, MAKE IT, UM, SENSITIVE TO ITS HISTORIC SETTING. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A TIMES SQUARE KIND OF EXPERIENCE. IT COULD BE A DIFFERENT KIND OF EXPERIENCE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING? I MAY HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE. MAY I, CAN I JUST ASK, ADD SOMETHING? AND, AND MAYBE JUST TO FINISH, UM, I THINK WE'RE ALL HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING WHAT'S OUR PURVIEW, RIGHT? AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW, I, I GET WHAT COMMISSIONER S SAID, AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF HOW THEY RELATE TO THE STORE BUILDING IS EVEN WITHIN OUR PURVIEW. BUT, UM, CAN I ALSO ASK THE CITY STAFF, IS THERE A WAY TO, I KNOW THESE THREE WILL BE IN ONE OF THE EIGHT DISTRICTS. IS THERE ANY INTENT OR COULD THAT BE SOMETHING DISCUSSED WITH THE APPLICANTS OF, OF UNITE UNIFYING THESE, THESE DISTRICTS AND REALLY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WOULD BE BEST? BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE RIGHT NOW IT'S LIKE FIRST APPROVAL GETS FIRST RIGHTS AND LET'S PUT THEM ALL DOWNTOWN AND THEN WE'LL FIGURE OUT WHERE THE REST GOES. OR IS THERE AN OPTION TO ACTUALLY LIKE, LOOK AT IT FROM, LIKE, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE ONE IN EACH DISTRICT OR [01:15:01] SEPARATE THEM A LITTLE BIT? UM, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M THE BEST PERSON TO ANSWER THIS. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY UP TO WHATEVER AGREEMENTS CAN BE BROKERED WITH THOSE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS. AND SO I KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF OUTREACH TO DIFFERENT PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN THE DIFFERENT DISTRICTS AND, YOU KNOW, SOME ARE MORE EAGER THAN OTHERS. AND SO IT'S, IT'S REALLY HARD FOR A THIRD PARTY THAT THEN PICK THE MOST APPROPRIATE LOCATIONS BECAUSE THEY MAY NOT BE VIABLE OPTIONS. I WANNA ADD ON THIS ONE. AS PART OF THE CONVERSATION FOR THIS ORDINANCE, THAT, UM, THE DISCUSSION ON HOW TO DISTRIBUTE THE SIGNS WAS DISCUSSED. IT WASN'T ARBITRARY, AND THEY DID, UM, AS A COUNCIL DECIDE TO HAVE JUST THE LIMIT ON THE NUMBER IN ONE PARTICULAR DISTRICT AND NOT HAVE A REQUIREMENT FOR A DISTRIBUTION ACROSS ALL OF THE DISTRICTS, UM, WAS CONSIDERED AND PART OF THE APPROVAL PROCESS. THANK YOU, UH, MS. PARISH. YES. ANOTHER QUESTION. UM, I KNOW THE SIGNS MAY END UP BEING PERMANENT, BUT IN YOUR NEGOTIATIONS ARE YOU ALLOW FOR THE LEASE AND ALL THAT AND THE PERMIT, ARE YOU, UM, WOULD THE MOUNTING OF THESE SIGNS TO THE BUILDINGS BE AVAILABLE TO BE DISCUSSED AND, UH, BASICALLY DICTATED THAT, THAT THEY ANCHOR THROUGH, UH, JOINTS IN THE MASONRY RATHER THAN THROUGH THE FACE OF A BIG STONE OR THROUGH THE BRICK? OR HOW IS IT ATTACHED TO THESE STRUCTURES EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT HISTORIC? UH, SHOULD THE SIGNS COME DOWN IN THE FUTURE, IT'S A LOT EASIER TO, UH, PATCH, UH, A HOLE IN A MORTAR JOINT THAN IT IS IN THE, I UNDERSTAND, IN THE PANEL. SO, UM, AS PART OF THE DSD PROCESS, WE CANNOT, UM, IMPOSE ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS OTHER THAN WHAT IS OUTLINED IN THE ORDINANCE. SO THAT ONE IS NOT PART OF OUR PURVIEW. WHAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO IS MAKE SURE THAT THE SIGN IS STRUCTURALLY SOUND, AND I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE BUILDING OWNER WOULD BE INCLINED TO MAKE SURE IT IS IN THE MASONRY JOINTS, BUT WE ARE NOT ALSO ABLE TO LOOK AT THE LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SIGNED COMPANY AND THE BUILDING OWNER. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . AND I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, SO I'M JUST GONNA STAY YOU'RE UNTIL Y'ALL ARE DONE. SO BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID. YES, SIR. SO THAT MEANS THAT THE BUILDING OWNERS THEMSELVES WILL HAVE A SAY SO IN HOW IT'S GOING TO BE, UM, ANCHORED TO THE BUILDING. SO EVEN THOUGH WHAT, UM, COMMISSIONER FESTER IS SUGGESTING, AND YOU SAID THAT'S NOT IN YOUR PURVIEW TO DO THAT, BUT THE BUILDING OWNERS THEMSELVES WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE A SAY THAT IF THEY SAY, I WANT IT, YOU KNOW, INSIDE, I MEAN THIS WAY, AND, AND IF THE SIGN OWNER SAYS, NO, THAT'S NOT HOW IT SHOULD GO, THEN THEY CAN BASICALLY DECLINE TO HAVE THAT ON THEIR BUILDING. IT WOULD BE ALL PART OF THE LEASE AGREEMENT. I MEAN, AND WHAT THEY DECIDE TO PUT IN THERE. I MEAN, IT MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. IT REALLY ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY AGREE TO AS FAR AS THE SIGN COMPANY AND THE BUILDING OWNER. THANK YOU. FURTHER DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. UH, COMMISSIONER ANTES? YES. JUST GOING BACK TO WHAT YOU JUST ASKED. SO IF THE BUILDING OWNER DECIDES THEY WANNA ALLOW SOMETHING ON THERE AND THEY WANT IT MOUNTED THE A WAY THAT VIOLATES THE GUIDELINES, WOULD THAT BE A SEPARATE, UH, A TOPIC BROUGHT TO THE, UH, TO THE COMMISSION JUST FOR THAT ALONE? I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK BASED ON WHAT SHE WAS JUST SAYING IS THAT, UM, THAT'S BETWEEN THE, A LEASE AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE SIGNED OWNERS AND THE BUILDING. SO, UM, IT, IT WOULDN'T SEEM THAT WE'LL COME BACK TO US FOR THAT BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'LL BE BETWEEN THEM TWO. SO OUR, RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST THIS WITH US NOW BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION OF THE SIGNS. THANK YOU. BUT NOT NECESSARILY BUILDING. OKAY, THANK YOU. BUT, BUT WE DO THIS ALL THE TIME. LIKE WE OFTEN INCLUDE STIPULATIONS IF THERE'S AN IMPACT IN MASONRY THAT IT BE PATCHED AND REPAIRED WITH INKIND MATERIALS. THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT COULD ALWAYS BE INCLUDED AS A STIPULATION OR CONDITION TO ANY OF THESE. THANK YOU, SIR. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL? PLEASE, MA'AM? AYE. SENO? AYE. VELAZQUEZ? AYE. GALLOWAY? AYE. ZUKA? AYE. GUEVARA. AYE. GROUP. AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER SIX, PLEASE. HEARING COMMISSIONERS. THIS IS 1 0 5 AUDITORIUM CIRCLE. UH, WE ALSO HAVE UPDATED DOCUMENTS THAT I CAN PULL UP FOR THIS ONE, A AND MR. CHAIR IN LIKE FASHION. IF, IF, UH, WE'RE GONNA END MAKING A MOTION FOR DRC, I'D LIKE TO MAKE THAT MOTION SO THAT I CAN MAKE A FEW COMMENTS AS WELL WITH IT. OKAY. I'LL TAKE YOUR MOTION, SIR. MOTION TO, UH, SEND, UH, 1 0 5 AUDIT TERMS. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S 1 0 5. WELL, AUDIT TERMS CIRCLE GO TO, UH, DRC. SECOND, IT'S BEEN MOVED AND PROPERLY. SECOND. UM, GO AHEAD, SIR. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK, UH, ED EDWARD, COULD YOU TAKE THE IMAGE TO PAGE [01:20:01] 14 OF 17? THE PDF OR THE, THE ONE THAT WE HAVE? OKAY. THANK YOU EDWARD. MAYBE ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT. TH THIS PICTURE IS A, IS A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE, MR. CHAIR OF THE, THE JUXTAPOSITION OF THESE TWO STYLES OF ARCHITECTURE. THE FACT THAT IT'S A SPACE THAT HAS BEEN CREATED, EVEN IF IT'S ON A STREET, THAT THAT THEN OBVIOUSLY TURNS INTO A PLACE THAT I, I DOUBT FEW PEOPLE IN SAN ANTONIO WOULD SAY IT'S NOT A SACRED SPACE, BUT IT APPEARS THAT IN THE THREE, UH, UH, PRESENTATIONS, THE, THE ACTIVITY, THE, THE PROCESS OF DESIGN SEEMS TO BE VOID. IT SEEMS TO, TO ALL HAVE BEEN A BILLBOARD SHAPED OBJECT, UH, PLACED SOMEWHERE. THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANYTHING APPROPRIATE ABOUT THE WAY THAT ANY OF THESE SIGNS WERE PLACED. NOW THAT WOULD GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE JUST SIMPLY NOT APPROPRIATE. BUT IF, IF I WERE TO BE AS PROACTIVE AS POSSIBLE, AND, AND TO SAY THAT, THAT A SIGN A A PIECE OF ART, HOWEVER WE WANNA CALL IT, IS GONNA GO ON THIS FLAT WALL POSSIBLY BECAUSE IT'S JUST A FLAT WALL. WELL, IF IT'S SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE OF ART, THERE, THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY THAT SOMEONE WOULD SAY, OR THAT THAT IT, THAT IT COULD GO TO A CLASS OF STUDENTS AND THEY'D HAVE TO COME BACK AND LEGITIMIZE WHAT WOULD MAKE A RECTANGLE VOID OF THE, OF, OF WHAT, WHAT IT PRESENTS THAT IT, IT IS IN, IN EFFECT, UH, APPROPRIATE FOR THE SPACE. IS IT A VERTICAL RECTANGLE? IS IT A HORIZONTAL RECTANGLE? AT SOME POINT, PERHAPS THE PILOT PROJECT DOES NOT ADAPT TO THE BILLBOARD WORLD. THEREFORE THE ONLY SOLUTION HERE IS THAT WHATEVER THE PILOT PROJECT IS, IS IT MUST BE A BILLBOARD SHAPED BILLBOARD. WHICH, WHICH IN A WAY BREAKS A LOT OF THE RULES. LIKE, LET'S JUST USE NEW YORK FOR EXAMPLE, THAT THEY'RE NOT AFRAID OF USING A HORIZONTAL OR VERTICAL, WHATEVER SEEMS TO BE APPROPRIATE IN A SPACE THAT CITY COUNCIL'S ALREADY DECIDED IS GONNA HAPPEN, RIGHT? SO HOPEFULLY IN THE DRC WE'RE ABLE TO, TO, TO ALSO FLUSH OUT THE, THE APPROPRIATENESS OF, OF A PIECE OF ART. AND I, I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT I'VE, I'VE SPENT MUCH TIME YEARS CO CONSULTING ON, ON THE PLACEMENT OF LARGE SCALE ART. AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK THAT I'M ON THIS COMMISSION AS THE ARTS COMMISSIONER, AT LEAST WHEN I FIRST GOT ON, THAT'S WHAT THE TITLE WAS. UH, SO, SO I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO, TO EXPLOIT THAT AND TAKE THAT VERY SERIOUSLY WHEN I TELL YOU THAT THERE IS A WAY TO DO THINGS. BUT, BUT, BUT IT'S NOT, YOU JUST CREATE A FRAME AND STICK ART IN IT WITH RESPECT TO ARCHITECTURE TO BE, TO, TO MAKE THIS PROJECT REALLY INTENTIONAL. UH, IT SHOULD TAKE A BEAUTIFUL WALL LIKE THAT. NOT SEE IT AS A FLAT SPACE, BUT RE REALLY BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE BEAUTY OF THIS PLANE, UH, AND MUCH IN THE WAY THAT WE LOOK AT THE LEGO AT THE LIBRARY. PLENTY OF PLANES TO PUT A DIGITAL BILLBOARD ON IT, BUT IF YOU WERE GONNA DO IT, YOU'D HAVE TO DO IT RIGHT. AND, AND THIS FACADE GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY THAT OF ALL THE DRCS, IF I CAN ASK THE COMMISSIONERS THAT PLAN TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT DRC TO, TO, TO CONTEMPLATE AND TO MEDITATE ON THIS WALL AND, AND TO BE VERY SENSITIVE IN TERMS OF WHAT WE ARE CALLING A PILOT PROJECT FOR THE PRODUCTION OF ART AS OPPOSED TO FINDING THE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR A BILLBOARD. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU SIR. COMMISSIONER GROUP. UH, YES. SO I, UM, JUST FOR THE DRC, ANOTHER THING THAT I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE, WELL, WE DON'T HAVE ANY LIKE, SPECIFIC DRAWINGS RIGHT HERE, LIKE SIZE AND LINES, RIGHT? LIKE WE TALKED ON THE OTHER ONES, BUT ALSO WE THINK WE DO. I DON'T UNDERSTAND REALLY WHERE'S THE VISIBILITY? I GUESS IT'S LIKE PEOPLE WHEN YOU'RE STANDING AT THE TOBIN. IS THAT WHERE WE'RE TRYING, LIKE WHAT I KNOW IT'S, YEAH. OKAY. AND I GUESS IT'S ON THIS, YOU KNOW, THE PACKAGE THAT WE ONLINE DIDN'T GET ACCESS TO, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT MORE DETAILS, UH, IN THE DRC AS WELL AS THE IMPACT OF WHERE, WHERE, WHAT PARTS OF TOWN ARE WE TRYING TO GET A VISUAL FROM FOR THIS SIGN AND FOR THE PLACEMENT THERE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER SAVINO? YES. UM, COREY, CAN YOU CONFIRM THE LANDMARK STATUS OF THE PROPERTY? SO THIS IS THE ONE WHERE I BELIEVE YOU ALL CAN MAKE AN INTERPRETATION FOR US. THE ORDINANCE SAYS SIGNS MAY NOT BE LOCATED ON HISTORIC BUILDINGS. THIS ENTIRE PROPERTY IS AN INDIVIDUAL HISTORIC LANDMARK. UM, OBVIOUSLY FOR THE SOUTHWESTERN BELL BUILDING, WHICH IS THE PORTION TO THE RIGHT, THE OLDER PORTION, THIS IS A LATER ADDITION, UM, AS PROBABLY AS LATE AS EARLY 1980S. UM, SO NON-CONTRIBUTING, NOT REALLY CONSIDERED HISTORIC, BUT THE [01:25:01] PROPERTY ITSELF IS HISTORIC. UM, SO WE ARE RECOMMENDING THAT THIS IS ALLOWABLE BECAUSE IT'S NOT ATTACHED TO THE HISTORIC BUILDING PER SE. UM, BUT YOU ARE ALL FREE TO INTERPRET THAT, UM, DIFFERENTLY IF, 'CAUSE THERE'S NOT REALLY A WRITTEN POLICY ON THAT. IT'S THAT DISTINCTION. RIGHT? SINCE THIS WAS BUILT, THIS EDITION WAS BUILT AFTER THE FIRST ONE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHY IT'S AN ADDITION, BUT IT WAS BUILT BEFORE THE DESIGNATION AS A LANDMARK. IT'S BEEN 25 YEARS PLUS. SO IT IS ELIGIBLE, OR WE WOULD IN ANY OTHER SITUATION IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT OR A LANDMARK, CONSIDER IT CONTRIBUTING UNTIL IT WAS PROVEN OTHERWISE, CORRECT. IS THAT CORRECT? LEGAL? YES. AT THE SAME TIME THOUGH, IF THIS PROPERTY IS, IS IT CORRECT, LEGAL? YES. THANK YOU. SO YES, IT'S, IT'S VERY DIFFERENT STYLISTICALLY. UM, AND SO ANYBODY ON THE STREET WOULD SAY, OH, THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS OTHER ORIGINAL 1933 OR 38 BUILDING. BUT IT IS A HISTORY OF THE COMPANY. IT'S A HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY AND THE REDEVELOPMENT OF DOWNTOWN. IT IS A BUILDING OF ITS TIME, BUT IT IS NOW HISTORIC. SO WHAT WOULD THE PROCESS BE FOR, IN ORDER TO MAKE THE, THE DIGITAL SIGN PROJECT GO THROUGH? WHAT WOULD THE PROCESS BE TO RENDER IT NON-CONTRIBUTING, BUT IT'S ALSO IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THAT TO CONSIDER AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THE BUILDINGS HISTORICISM, ARE WE, ARE WE, YOU KNOW, ARE WE AS A COMMISSION AND AS A COMMUNITY READY TO, UH, JUST REMOVE THE HISTORIC STATUS OF SOMETHING SO WE CAN, UM, YOU KNOW, PUT THE DIGITAL BILLBOARD UP? AND I DO, LIKE, I DO APPRECIATE THE IDEAS THAT YOU BRING TO THE, TO THE MEDIUM. UM, RATHER THAN, UM, LETTING THE BILLBOARD DRIVE IT OR THE COMMERCIALISM DRIVE IT, LET THE, UM, LET THE, THE CANVAS DRIVE IT AND THE PLACE DRIVE IT AND LET THE ARTS PROGRAM DRIVE IT. I APPRECIATE THAT. THAT'S A DIFFERENT TOPIC. EXCUSE ME, I'M STILL, I'M STILL TALKING. I HAVE 12 SECONDS. AND SO THOSE ARE THE COM THOSE ARE THE CONCERNS THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS IN OUR DRC. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER GROUP. WELL, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE KEEP WITHIN OUR PURVIEW WORK, UH, CITY COUNCIL HAS APPROVED A CITY ORDINANCE. WE ARE NOT TO CHALLENGE. THAT IS NOT OUR ROLE. AND IT'S, AGAIN, BACK TO, WE CAN GO FURTHER DISCUSSIONS, YOU CAN GO DISCUSS THIS WITH YOUR CITY COUNCIL THAT APPOINTED YOU. I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE DISCUSSION NEEDS TO GO, NOT WHETHER OR NOT THIS ORDINANCE. AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT I THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR. I'M GONNA ASK STAFF, BRIEF US ALL INDIVIDUALLY IF NEEDED. WHAT IS OUR PURVIEW WITH THIS ORDINANCE AND WHAT CAN WE ACTUALLY HAVE AN OPINION ON OR ACTUALLY VOTE ON? AND WHAT CAN WE BE PART OF OUR MR. CHAIR, MR. POINT OF ORDER? MR. POINT OF ORDER. I DON'T MOMENT. PLEASE, SIR. YEAH, WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ASK ME WHAT MY POINT OF ORDER IS. I, SIR COMMISSIONER WILL STATE HIS POINT OF ORDER, SIR. I UNDERSTAND, SIR, BUT WHEN I SAY ONE MOMENT PLEASE. I HEAR, I HEAR YOU. SO JUST GIVE ME A MOMENT TO FINISH THAT PART NOW, NOW THAT SHE'S DONE. YOU CAN GO AHEAD, PLEASE, SIR. WELL, I, I, UH, FORGIVE THE INTERRUPTION, BUT I INTENDED TO INTERRUPT BECAUSE WE'RE BEING GIVEN DIRECTIVE AND THE DIRECTIVE IS WITH RESPECT TO CITY COUNCIL. I, I HAVEN'T BEEN BRIEFED IN ANY LEGAL FASHION THAT TELLS ME THAT MY PURVIEW IS X AND CHAIR. YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN ME WHAT MY PURVIEW IS EITHER. SO FOR A COMMISSIONER TO BE TELLING ME WHAT MY PURVIEW IS WITH RESPECT TO CITY COUNCIL, WHAT I CAN AND CAN'T DO, WHAT I'M EXPECTED TO DO BY MY CITY COUNCIL PERSON, ALL THAT I FIND VERY INAPPROPRIATE. I APPRECIATE HER WILLINGNESS TO, UH, UH, FELLOW COMMISSIONER'S WILLINGNESS TO, TO INTERPRET AND PERHAPS FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL COMMISSIONERS OR THE GOOD AND WELL OF ALL COMMISSIONERS. BUT I INTERRUPTED BECAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW, IT MAKES ME FEEL VERY UNCOMFORTABLE AND IT MAKES ME FEEL AS IF I HAVE TO DO WHAT SOMEONE EXPECTS ME TO DO. AND I AM, AND I FEAR THAT GIVES THAT IMPRESSION TO THE CITIZENS THAT ARE WATCHING TELEVISION THAT I FIND INAPPROPRIATE, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS HERE, WHICH MEANS THAT THE END RESULT IS HOWEVER IT IS THAT WE VOTE BY MAJORITY. AND THE MAJORITY IS WHAT THE RULE IS. UM, UNLESS THERE'S A, A, A LEGAL, UM, DIRECTIVE THAT SAYS YOU WILL DO WHAT YOUR COUNCIL PERSON EXPECTS YOU TO DO. I'M CONFUSED. JUST TO CLARIFY, I NEVER SAID THAT THE UDC CLARIFIES YOUR ROLE. CITY COUNCIL HAS APPROVED THIS ORDINANCE WITH WHAT OUR ROLE [01:30:01] IS IN THIS ORDINANCE. IF YOU'RE AGAINST THE ORDINANCE, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS TO THE ORDINANCE? I SAY DIRECTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL. I NEVER SAID THAT. YOU DO WHATEVER YOUR CITY COUNCIL PERSON IS. I SAID WE'LL MAKE SURE WHAT OUR PURVIEW IS. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER CERVANTES. YEAH, I, I WANNA, I WANNA KIND OF ACTUALLY KIND OF JUMP ON THAT AS WELL. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S OUR, I I SEE IT AS OUR JOB TO WORK WITH THE CITY ORDINANCE. NOT NECESSARILY GO AGAINST IT OR OPPOSE IT, BUT IT'S, IT'S OUR, IT'S OUR JOB TO LOOK AT IT, INTERPRET IT, AND SEE HOW WE CAN BEST, UH, FIT THAT INTO WHAT OUR PURVIEW IS. BUT I ALSO DO TAKE ISSUE COMMISSIONER GRU, UH, WITH, WITH HER INTERRUPTIONS OF PEOPLE AND, AND TRYING TO KEEP PEOPLE EITHER STIFLED OR, OR, OR THAT PERCEPTION THAT I GET. UH, I KNOW HER KNOWLEDGE IS VAST AND I RESPECT HER EXPERIENCE ON THE STAFF, BUT I THINK WE GO AROUND IN CIRCLES, YOU KNOW, GETTING INTERRUPTED WHEN WE CAN JUST FINISH OUR COMMENT. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S ANY, ANYONE COMMISSIONER'S PURVIEW ASIDE FROM YOU, MR. CHAIR, UH, OR MS. MR. VICE CHAIR IN YOUR ABSENCE TO STIFLE PEOPLE'S COMMUNICATIONS. THANK YOU, SIR. AND I JUST WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR, UM, WHEN WE'RE IN DISCUSSION, UM, I AM, I DO GIVE A LITTLE LEEWAY, UM, FOR COMMISSIONERS TO VOICE BECAUSE THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE, THE TOPIC ITSELF GOES A LITTLE BIT OFF TOPIC OR OFF DESIGN FOR WHERE WE'RE GOING. BUT, AND I WOULD GIVE IT A LITTLE PURVIEW BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO GET TO A POINT, AND I CAN FEEL THAT BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD, YOU KNOW, BEING ON THE COMMISSION AND BEING HERE WITH YOU. SO JUST UNDERSTAND THAT FROM, YOU CAN HAVE, I MEAN, I'M TALKING TO YOU, COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR OPINION, YOUR STATE OF FACT, AND I'M NEVER GOING TO STIFLE THAT, YOU KNOW, FROM YOU. UM, SAME THING FOR COMMISSIONER GRU OR ANY COMMISSIONER THAT'S HERE. SO JUST KNOW THAT, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW TO TAKE HER COMMENT. UM, I DIDN'T TAKE IT THAT DIDN'T TAKE IT THAT WAY, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S NEITHER HERE OR THERE. YOU, YOU CAN FEEL THE WAY YOU FEEL. AND THAT'S, AND I RESPECT THAT. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE IT CLEAR THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, AS COMMISSION, I, I TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WORK TOGETHER AND THAT WE HAVE SOME TYPE OF, UM, HARMONIOUS DISCUSSIONS AND UNDERSTAND SOMETIMES IT GETS A LITTLE OFF, OFF KILTER AND THEN IT'S MY JOB TO REEL IT BACK IN, BUT UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYBODY'S POSITION OR EVERYBODY'S CONCERN, YOU KNOW, AS, AS LONG AS I'M HERE IS GONNA BE RESPECTED. AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL CLEAR AND THAT'S PLACED, PLACED ON THE RECORD THAT, UM, THAT'S MY POSITION AND HOW WE ARE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. SO IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ON THIS ITEM BEFORE I CALL FOR A VOTE? UM, VICE CHAIR PET, YES. UH, QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT? YES. YES. UM, THIS PILOT PROGRAM, UM, SPECIFICALLY SAYS, NO DISPLAY SHALL BE LOCATED ON ANY HISTORIC DESIGNATED STRUCTURES. MM-HMM . WHAT DISCUSSIONS DID YOU HAVE WITH CITY DSD OR OHP IN TERMS OF PLACING THIS SIGN ON THIS HISTORIC DESIGNATED LANDMARK? SURE. YEAH. SO, ASHLEY FAIRMONT, UH, KILLING GRIFFIN AND FAIRMONT, I'M HERE WITH THE SIGN COMPANY. ALSO, UH, I DO WANNA INTRODUCE, WE DO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES OF AT AND T HERE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE BUILDING. UH, SO ROBIN CURRY AS WELL AS THE ARCHITECT. UM, AND HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, BUT ALSO HAPPY TO DO THAT IN THE DRC WITH ALL OF US PRESENT THERE AS WELL. UM, SO WE DID LOOK AT THIS AND DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT DOES, THAT PROPERTY DOES HAVE THAT HISTORIC DESIGNATION ON THE ENTIRE PROPERTY. UM, BUT IN LOOKING AT IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, THE INTENTION OF THAT DESIGNATION IS FOR THE 1930S SOUTHWESTERN BELL BUILDING. THIS WAS IN A BUILDING, IT'S CALLED THE ANNEX BUILDING THAT WAS ADDED, UM, IN THE EIGHTIES, IS WHEN IT, YOU ALL KNOW IN THE STAFF REPORT, UH, THE BUILDINGS DON'T EVEN REALLY LINE UP IN TERMS OF FLOORS. SO, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF CONNECTION. SO WE FELT THAT IT WAS AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION FOR THE SIGN 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T BELIEVE IT WAS CONTRIBUTING TO HISTORIC. HAPPY TO CONTINUE THAT DISCUSSION WITH YOU ALL. UM, WE DID HAVE SOME PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WITH HISTORIC STAFF ON THAT AS WELL. UM, AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE BEFORE YOU, BUT ALSO AS SEEN FOR THE LAST FEW HOURS, THIS PROGRAM IS NEW. UM, AND THERE'S A LOT I THINK, TO BE DISCUSSED. SO WE'RE HAPPY, BUT WOULD APPRECIATE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO DRC TO TALK ABOUT IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I DO HAVE ONE LAST COMMENT JUST TO, TO THE OVERALL CONVERSATION. UM, YES, THE STRUCTURE, BOTH STRUCTURES ARE, UH, LANDMARK AS IS THE PROPERTY IS LANDMARKED. UM, AND TO OUR PURVIEW HERE IT IS TO FOLLOW THE ORDINANCE, THE DIGITAL MEDIA ORDINANCE, AND TO, UM, PROTECT OUR HISTORIC LANDMARKS, HISTORIC DISTRICTS, ET CETERA. SO IF WE WERE TO STRICTLY FOLLOW [01:35:01] THIS, OUR CHARGE, OUR PURVIEW, THIS WOULD BE AN EASY DENIAL BECAUSE PER ITEM NUMBER 12, NO DISPLAYS SHALL BE LOCATED ON ANY HISTORIC DESIGNATED STRUCTURES. SO JUST TO CLARIFY, AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE, THE, THE MUCK HERE AND THE CLOUDS AND, AND THE, THE NEBULOUS CONVERSATIONS, UM, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR TO ME. IT WAS PRETTY CLEAR WHEN I FIRST READ THE, WHEN I FIRST SAW THE CASE, WHEN I FIRST, WHEN THE ORDINANCE, IT WAS CLEAR. THANK YOU. UM, MR. CHAIR, JUST I WANNA CLARIFY SOMETHING A LITTLE. OKAY, SIR. UM, THE, I THINK, UH, THE INTENT WOULD BE, AND MY, MY, MY INTENT IS REALLY TO FOCUS IN ON WHAT IS APPROPRIATE. AND, AND, AND THAT'S NOT JUST, UH, UH, LIKE, SAY LUMENS, RIGHT? BUT, UH, ORIENTATION THAT, THAT WHAT YOU WANNA ACHIEVE, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ARTS, IF THAT'S THE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY THAT'S IN CHARGE OF THIS PROJECT, THAT THEY ACHIEVE WHAT THEY WANT TO ACHIEVE, BUT THERE'S AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO GO ABOUT SOMETHING, SOMETIMES SOMETHING THAT, THAT WOULD SEEM APPROPRIATE MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE AT ALL. BUT ALSO, UM, SOMETIMES IT COULD BE JUST THE LIMITATIONS OF THE IMAGINATION AND IT, I'M COMMITTED TO BEING JUST AS IMAGINATIVE AND JUST AS, UH, UM, PROGRESSIVE AS, AS NEED BE TO FIND THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THAT. AND ON A LIGHTER NOTE, JUST TO THE PEOPLE HERE FROM SOUTHWESTERN BELL, THE VERY FIRST JOB I HAD IN ARCHITECTURE WAS IN THAT BUILDING, MEASURING IT FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER. I KNOW THAT BUILDING LIKE THE BACK OF MY HAND. UM, SO MAYBE I'M A LITTLE UBER, UH, UH, SENSITIVE TO THE, TO THE PRECIOUS ENVIRONMENT THAT'S THERE. AND I, AND I PROMISE NOT TO LET THAT INTERFERE WITH, UH, UH, UH, FAIRNESS TO THIS, TO THIS PROJECT. UH, BUT I THINK AT THE SAME TIME ALONG THE LINE, SHOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, ALL OF OUR REASON FOR IT TO BE REALLY APPROPRIATE, IT'S, IT'S, IT SHOULD BE THAT SPECIAL TO US AS A COMMISSION BECAUSE THAT REALLY IS WHAT OUR JOB IS TO BE SENSITIVE BECAUSE THE BUILDINGS CAN'T SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. THA THANKS FOR THE TIME, MR. CHAIR. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. ALRIGHT. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE, MA'AM? AYE. SAVINA? AYE. VELASQUEZ? AYE. GALLOWAY? AYE. ZUKA? AYE. GUEVARA AYE GROUP? AYE. CERVANTES? YES. HOLLAND. AYE. FETZER. AYE. AND GIBBS? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THAT WAS THE LAST CASE ON TODAY'S AGENDA. WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU EVERYONE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.