* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:04] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 6TH, TWO, 2019. MAY I HAVE A ROLL [Roll Call] CALL, PLEASE? GIBBS CARPENTER. PRESENT. VELAZQUEZ. PRESENT FETZER. HERE. BOWMAN? HERE. OLA. HERE. GROUP A. HERE. MARTINEZ FLORES. HERE. FERNANDEZ. HERE. UNE AND FISH. UM, QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT. WE DO HAVE TRANSLATION SERVICES AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETING. UM, WE HAVE A VIDEO THAT WE ARE GOING TO PLAY. THANK YOU. [Chairman’s Statement] DO AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT. SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY, AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. IN CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF THE APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A, OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THIS PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU'RE THE OWNER OF OR REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 20 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL THREE MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR THREE MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO IS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKERS CALLED UPON SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY'RE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. UM, THANK YOU. UH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER ANNOUNCEMENTS AND WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR, UM, PUBLIC COMMENTS. UM, SO WE CAN NOW DRAW OUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. UM, WE HAVE ITEMS ['A' CONSENT AGENDA] A ONE THROUGH A SIX THAT ARE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. UM, WE HAVE CITIZENS TO BE HEARD FOR ITEM A SIX. AND SO THAT'LL BE PULLED AND HEARD ON INDIVIDUAL. AND SO NOW WE CAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE REMAINDER. MR. CHAIRMAN, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEMS A ONE THROUGH A FIVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED A NAY AYE. MOTION PASSES. YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS SEVEN 15 SOUTH ALAMO, 7 23 SOUTH ALAMO, 3 0 7 EAST JOSEPHINE 1 23 WEST VALS AND 9,800 AIRPORT BOULEVARD. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF, YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER. BE PREPARED AND EMAIL TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RETURNED THE PUBLIC NOTICE YARD SIGN THAT WAS PLACED ON YOUR PROPERTY, PLEASE DO SO AT THE O H B COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. SO THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM A [A-6 19-8313 Address/Description: 421, 427 S PRESA] SIX, UM, 4 21 SOUTH PRESA. WE HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. UH, MARY MEDFORD, I RECEIVE THREE MINUTES. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS INTO THE MICROPHONE FOR THE RECORD. UH, MY NAME IS MARY MEDFORD. MY ADDRESS IS, UH, 8 3 51 OAK NOLL. UM, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY IS WHO I'M HERE TO SPEAK FOR. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO DOES NOT CONCUR WITH A PROPOSAL TO ADD 30 FEET OF HEIGHT TO THE EXISTING BUILDING DESIGN. ADDING THIS HEIGHT TAKES THE BUILDING FROM 12 STORIES TO NEARLY 14 STORIES. [00:05:01] ALTHOUGH THIS HEIGHT CHANGE MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN DESIGN GUIDELINES, THE BUILDING SPECIFIC LOCATION AMONG SMALL SCALE HISTORIC STRUCTURES BECOMES LESS COMPATIBLE AS MORE MASS IS ADDED. ADDITIONALLY, IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT THAT THIS HEIGHT ADDITION DOES NOT AFFECT THE VIEW CORRIDOR LOOKING NORTH FROM SOUTH ST. MARY'S STREET TOWARD THE TOWER LIFE BUILDING. THANK YOU. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OF THE APPLICANT, WE CAN HAVE DISCUSSION ON THE ITEM AT THIS TIME. IF NOT, JUST A REMINDER THAT IT WAS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. DO HAVE ONE QUESTION AS TO WHY THE 30 FEET IS BEING ADDED TO THE PREVIOUS DESIGN? THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE. SPEAK TO THAT. PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND UH, RELATION TO THE APPLICATION AND TO THE MICROPHONE. UH, MY NAME IS ELAINE PROCTOR AND, UH, I OWN LANEY DEVELOPMENT. UH, WE'RE ADDING THE FLOORS JUST FOR FINANCIAL REASONS. WE HAVE TO GENERATE MORE REVENUE TO PAY FOR THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION. IS ADDING MORE, UH, LIVING UNITS CHANGE THE UH, PARKING REQUIREMENTS AT ANY? NO, IT WILL NOT. CAN STAFF SPEAK TO THE RECOMMENDATION? UH, YES. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL. UM, BACK WHEN THIS WAS REVIEWED FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND THE ORIGINAL FINAL APPROVAL, UM, THERE WASN'T A CONCERN IN REGARDS TO HEIGHT FROM STAFF. THERE WAS A CONCERN IN REGARDS TO PROPORTIONS AS THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING RELATED TO THE WIDTH. UH, SO ACTUALLY WITH THE INCREASE IN HEIGHT, THE BUILDING IS MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDE, WHICH NOTES THAT BUILDINGS SHOULD APPEAR TALLER THAN THEY ARE WIDE. UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE PROPOSED DESIGN IN REGARDS TO THE FLOOR PLATES AND THE OVERALL, UM, MERIT OF THE DESIGN HAS STAYED THE SAME STAFF FINDS SAY, BASED ON THE FINDINGS AND THE REAR GUIDELINES, I MOVE TO APPROVE. SECOND. THE MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? SAY NAY. NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. [A-7 19-8197 Address/Description: 4007 S FLORES ST/Toudouze Building HDRC Case No.: 2019-508 Applicant: Office of Historic Preservation Request: Finding of historic significance City Council Dist.: 3] ITEM A SEVEN ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 5 0 8 4,007 SOUTH FLORIDA STREET. THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS REQUESTING A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 4,007 SOUTH FLORIDA STREET. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE AND THAT THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION SHOULD RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF 4,007 SOUTH FLORIDA STREET TO THE ZONING COMMISSION AND TO THE CITY COUNCIL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH F. UM, AT THIS POINT, WE'LL CALL THE PROPERTY OWNER UP. UM, STAFF IS ALSO AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CASE. UM, WE DO HAVE CITIZENS BE HEARD AS WELL AFTER, UM, TESTIMONY FROM THE APPLICANT. RIGHT FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER. MY NAME'S MARK EZ. I OWN THE PROPERTY. UH, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED. I WAS HERE A MONTH AGO AND THE PROCESS WAS EXTENDED, BUT THE CASE THAT WAS EXTENDED WAS FOR 4,007 AND 2 0 2 SOUTH PLEASANTON. SO IS THIS A NEW CASE OR A CONTINUANCE OF THE OTHER CASE? WHAT ARE WE DOING TODAY? IT'S THE SAME CASE. SAME CASE. EVEN THOUGH THE ONLY THING THAT WAS DETERMINED, THE LAST ONE WAS THE POSTPONE IT FOR TWO WEEKS. THAT'S THE ONLY THING IN THE PUBLIC RECORD. SO WE CAME BACK TWO WEEKS AGO WITHOUT ANY COURTESY TO US, IT WAS POSTPONED, KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT. THAT'S TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE ON THE POINT OF STAFF. WE WERE TOLD AT THE LAST MINUTE NOT TO SHOW UP, BUT THE ONLY THING Y'ALL APPROVED WAS TO EXTEND IT FOR TWO WEEKS. THAT CASE BOTH ADDRESSES. SO AS THE OTHER PROPERTY PART OF THIS OR NOT PART OF THIS. SO AT THE LAST HEARING, UM, THERE WAS A REQUEST FOR THIS PROPERTY. UM, THE SAME MAP THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN WAS SHOWN. UM, THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL ADDRESS LISTED THAT HAS BEEN CORRECTED. THE ACTION WAS FOR A CONTINUANCE. UM, IT DID NOT SPECIFY TWO WEEKS, AND SO WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS THE ITEM. IT WAS, UH, MOVED ON TO THE NEXT MEETING, WHICH IS TWO WEEKS. THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN NO, THIS HAS NOT APPEARED ON ANOTHER AGENDA. OKAY. SO YOU JUST UNILATERALLY DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITHOUT, IN REGARDS TO MY OWNERSHIP RIGHTS, JUST THE CASE THAT'S ON THE AGENDA TODAY. JUST GO AHEAD AND ADDRESS THE COMMISSION REGARDING THE CASE. NOT ALL YOUR FAILINGS. [00:10:01] YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE FAILINGS IF YOU WANT, BUT JUST ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. OKAY. I REALIZE YOU'RE NOT BOUND BY THE TRUTH OR ANYTHING. SO LET ME GO FORWARD. OKAY. SO FIRST OFF, YOU TAKE MY PROPERTY AND COMBINE IT WITH ANOTHER PROPERTY THAT I DON'T OWN. OKAY? SO YOU MAKE ME RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY. NOW YOU DON'T MAKE IT. YOU STATED VERY CLEARLY, MR. FETZER, THAT WE ARE BOUND BY THE U D C. IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. OKAY. SO WE ARE ALL OPERATING UNDER THE U D C IN PLACE? CORRECT. OKAY. SO IS THIS A, AN EXTENSION OF THE ORIGINAL CASE FROM AUGUST 27TH? LEAVE THE TO CONTINUE IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO UNDER THE U D C, WHICH YOU'VE SAID GOVERNS THIS, ONCE THE APPLICATION IS MADE, Y'ALL HAVE 45 DAYS TO MAKE A DECISION. WE ARE WAY PAST 45 DAYS. THERE IS NO LANGUAGE IN THE U D C THAT SAYS UNLESS EXTENDED, YOU ONLY HAVE 45 DAYS. THERE'S ALSO NO FERMENTATION AFFIRMATION CLAUSE IN U D C THAT SAYS IN THE EVENT YOU DON'T VOTE, IT'S APPROVED. IF YOU DON'T VOTE IN THOSE 45 DAYS AND APPROVE IT, THEN IT'S DEEMED DENIED. SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY WE'RE HERE BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE DENIED THE MOTION. IT IT'S YOUR U D C, NOT MINE. I'M JUST READING IT. OKAY. AGAIN, TO BE CLEAR, THE WHAT IS ON THE A ON THE AGENDA TODAY IS A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR THE PROPERTY. THAT IS WHAT YOU CAN, YOU SHOULD BE DISCUSSING WITH THE COMMISSION. STAFF HAS INDICATED THAT IT MEETS AT LEAST THREE OF THE CRITERIA, WHICH IS WHAT MAKES IT ELIGIBLE FOR U D C. WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE OPPOSED TO THE DESIGNATION. IF THE COMMISSION ISSUES A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE, THEN IT WOULD GO TO CITY COUNCIL. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE POINT IS, Y'ALL FILED YOU, THE APPLICANT NOT ME, FILED SOMETHING ON AUGUST 27TH. THE U D C STATES THAT Y'ALL HAVE FOUR, NOT YOU PARTICULARLY. THE, THE COMMISSION HAS 45 DAYS TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER TO MOVE IT ON TO THE CITY COUNCIL. OKAY? THOSE 45 DAYS HAVE PASSED. THERE IS NOTHING IN THIS ORDINANCE THAT SAYS UNLESS EXTENDED THE 45 DAYS CHANGES. SO EVEN IF YOU CHOSE TO, TO SAY WE WANT TO EXTEND IT FOR FOR TWO WEEKS, YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT. SO THE 45 DAYS IS EXPIRED. THERE'S NOTHING IN THE U D U D SAYS IN THE EVENT, NO DECISION IS RENDERED. IT'S RENDERED THE AFFIRMATIVE AND IS APPROVED. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS, WHICH MEANS BY, BY LAW IT'S DENIED. WE CAN'T HAVE THIS CASE. MY UNDERSTANDING FROM STAFF AND LEGAL IS THAT, UH, EVERYTHING HAS BEEN FOLLOWED ACCORDING TO THE U D C AND THAT, UH, WE WILL TAKE ACTION TODAY. OKAY? SO WE'RE JUST GONNA THROW OUT ALL THE U D C, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A PROMULGATED ORDINANCE WE'RE OPERATING UNDER. SO YOU JUST SAID WE'RE OPERATING UNDER IT, BUT THEN WHEN WE CHOOSE TO APPLY IT, YOU SAY YOU'RE NOT GONNA FOLLOW IT, RIGHT? AND STAFF CLARIFY, THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID. THE DATE OF THE APPLICATION, AUGUST 27TH, IT'S ON YOUR APPLICATION RIGHT HERE. DATE RECEIVED AUGUST 27TH. OKAY. SO THE REASON I'M ASKING THIS, BECAUSE IF WE'RE GONNA SAY THIS IS THE APPLICATION AND WE'RE EXTENDING THE ORIGINAL CASE, THEN THE AUGUST 27TH, EIGHTH EITHER IS VALID OR NOT VALID. BUT LET'S, LET'S GO ON. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO IT SAYS, THIS PROCESS STARTS BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PROPERTY OWNER, WHICH IS ME BY HAVE NO RIGHTS CAN FILE AN APPLICATION. SO HOW WOULD YOU FILE THE APPLICATION? I HAVE YET TO SEE AN APPLICATION. I HAVE ASKED MS. MILLER AND SHE REFUSES TO TURN OVER THE APPLICATION. SO I'M ASKING HER ONCE AGAIN, MAY I SEE THE APPLICATION. YOU HAVE THE APPLICATION IN YOUR HAND, AS WE'VE INDICATED TO YOU MULTIPLE TIMES. THE APPLICATION GOES TO THE COMMISSION IN THE FORM OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND THE ITEM ON THE AGENDA. THAT IS THE APPLICATION. WHERE DOES IT, IT SAY, WELL, YOU PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE MERITS OF WHAT IS BEING CONSIDERED BY THE H D R C. WHERE DOES IT SAY APPLICATION? HOW AM I TO KNOW? THIS IS THE APPLICATION. I, I BELIEVE THAT WAS NOTED TO YOU AT THE LAST MEETING AS WELL. OKAY? SO IF I WANTED TO COME TAKE OUT A HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE LETTER ON YOUR HOUSE, WHERE WOULD I GO FIND THE FORM TO DO THAT? I'M SURE STAFF CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT. CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE TO FIND THAT FORM? [00:15:02] I'D BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS ANOTHER PROPERTY WITH YOU AT ANOTHER TIME. YOU KNOW WHY? WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA IS THAT PROPERTY, YOU KNOW WHY SHE'S DOING THAT? BECAUSE TECHNICALLY THERE IS NO FORM UNDER THE U D C FOR A FINE, FOR AN APPLICATION FOR HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. LOOK UP ON THEIR WEBSITE. THERE, THERE'S NOT A FORM TO START THIS PROCESS. THIS ISN'T ME. THIS IS HER. SIR. WE HAVE A LOT OF APPLICANTS THAT ARE HERE FOR OTHER CASES. WOULD YOU MIND REFERRING TO THE DETAILS AND WHAT IN YOUR PROPERTY? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. BUT, BUT WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORD PROMULGATED MEANS? IT MEANS ON PUBLIC NOTICE, IN EFFECT BY ORDINANCE OR LAW. OKAY. THE U D C IS A PROMULGATED ORDINANCE. THE REASON IT'S PROMULGATED IS SO THAT ANYBODY THAT GOES TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE CITY HAS TO USE THE SAME FORM. IT'S, YOU CAN'T GO GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE AND TAKE A NAPKIN AND SAY, HERE'S MY NAME AND ADDRESS. YOU HAVE TO USE THEIR FORM. THIS PREVENT STAFF FROM SAYING, WE WANT THIS, SO WE'LL GIVE 'EM THIS FORM. WE HATE THIS GUY. WE'LL GIVE 'EM THAT FORM. SO IF I WANT TO GO DO SOMETHING, THERE IS NOT A FORM ON THE WEBSITE PROMULGATED TO START THE PROCESS FOR A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. THERE'S ONE FOR LANDMARK HISTORIC DISTRICT DEMOLITION. OKAY? SECONDLY, IT SAYS TO START THE PROCESS, THE APPLICANT WEALTH FORM AND PAY THE CITY FEES. HAVE YOU PAY THE CITY FEES YOU'RE REQUIRED TO BY LAW, BY INTERFUND TRANSFER PAY THE APPLICATION FEE. DID YOU PAY IT? THIS IS NOT RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION TODAY. IT IS RELEVANT BECAUSE WE, WE, WE ARE FOLLOWING THE APPROPRIATE PROCEDURES. WE'VE CONSULTED WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. THE CASE IS ON THE AGENDA LEGITIMATELY, WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU GO AHEAD AND DISCUSS THE MERITS OF THE CASE WITH THE COMMISSION. OKAY, I'LL DO THAT. BUT I WANT TO MAKE SOMETHING CLEAR TO YOU. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE STATUTE AUTHORITY TO HAVE THIS CASE. YOU ARE NOT USING A PROMULGATED FORM YOUR PAST TO DATES. SHE CAN TELL YOU ALL SHE WANTS, BUT WHEN WE SUE THE COMMISSION, ALL Y'ALL INDIVIDUALLY AND HER AND THE CITY, YOU KNOW WHAT THE FIRST THING THE CITY'S GONNA DO? THE CITY SAY, YOU CAN'T SUE US. WE NEVER AUTHORIZE THESE PEOPLE TO DO THIS. WE NEVER AUTHORIZE THEM TO VIOLATE THEIR DUE PROCESS RIGHTS. THEY DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO IT. THIS IS A COMPLETE CLUSTER BECAUSE THEY WON'T FOLLOW THE RULES. OKAY? SO LET'S GET ON TO THE CASE, PLEASE. OKAY, SO THIS BUILDING SAT VACANT FOR EIGHT YEARS. NOBODY SAID ANYTHING. THEN WE FIND OUT, WELL, NO, THIS FAMILY OWNED IT. THE FAMILY THAT SUPPOSEDLY USED IT SORT EXHIBIT LEFT 40 YEARS AGO. SO FOR 40 YEARS AGO, THIS PROPERTY SAT THERE WITH NOTHING. OKAY? SO I COME ALONG, WE'VE SPENT 40 YEARS REDEVELOPING PROPERTIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. THE LAST 20 IN SAN ANTONIO, BROOK CITY, BAY CENTRAL PARK, MALL, W MARKETPLACE, BANDERA, WOODLAND, THE PARTS OF TOWN, NOBODY ELSE GOES TO PRIVATE MONEY. WE DON'T GET ANYTHING FROM THE CITY, COUNTY, ANYBODY GO DO WHAT WE DO. SO WE SEE THIS PROPERTY AND SAY, THIS IS A VIABLE NEIGHBORHOOD, LET'S GO DO SOMETHING. SO WE CHECK THE ZONING. THE ZONING SAYS THAT ON THIS PROPERTY WE HAVE C THREE ZONING. THIS WAS RESIDENTIAL ZONING. WE WENT THROUGH A ZONING CASE, GOT THIS ZONE C TWO TO DO A SHOPPING CENTER. THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE DOING THIS, THE COUNCILWOMAN AND HURRAY CHRIS VILLA WERE TRYING TO GET US TO AGREE TO REZONE THIS DOWN. THIS CASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. THIS IS AN A ZONING CASE BY PROXY, WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAW. BY THE WAY, THIS ONLY CAME UP BECAUSE WE HAVE C THREE ZONING AND WANNA DO A CAR WASH. IF THIS WAS C TWO, YOU NEVER WOULD'VE HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THIS, RIGHT, SHANNON? OKAY, WELL, SHE DOESN'T TELL YOU IS THE, THE, THE COUNCILWOMAN IS DRIVING. THAT'S NOT HER. EVEN THOUGH COUNCIL PEOPLE CAN'T DIRECT A STAFF MEMBER TO DO SOMETHING, SHE'S DOING IT. SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS GREAT BUILDING. THEY NEEDED TO DO THREE THINGS TO PROVE IT HISTORIC. SO THE FOUR THINGS THEY CAME UP WITH, NUMBER THREE IS THIS PROPERTY WAS LOCATED AT THIS LO STRUCTURE WAS BUILT IN 1926 AND HAS IT REMAINED AT THE CORNER OF PLEASANT AND THE SOUTH FLORIDA. SINCE YOU JUST DEEMED EVERY PROPERTY IN THIS CITY ELIGIBLE UNDER THAT CONDITION, YOU CAN'T MOVE A PROPERTY. SO TO COUNT THAT IS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. IT'S ONE OF FOUR THAT STAFF FOUND. UM, IT'S NUMBER THREE SIGNIFICANCE. OKAY? AND THE STRUCTURE BUILT IN 1926 HAS REMAINED AT THE CORNER OF PLEASANT AND FLO AND [00:20:01] SOUTH FLORIDA. SINCE YOU CAN'T MOVE THE PROPERTY, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT HISTORIC. SO INCIDENTALLY, THERE ARE HISTORIC PROPERTIES THAT, THAT HAVE BEEN MOVED, STRUCTURES THAT HAVE BEEN RELOCATED THROUGHOUT THE CITY, BUT, BUT THIS ONE HASN'T BEEN MOVED. AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SAYING THAT MEETS THAT CRITERIA. THIS BUILDING CANNOT BE MOVED BECAUSE OF ITS CONSTRUCTION. OKAY? YOU CAN BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT. IT CAN'T BE MOVED. SO WE'RE SAYING THAT ANY BUILDING THAT'S IN THE SAME PLACE, IT WAS WHEN IT WAS A BUILT, IS NOW HISTORIC. THIS BUILDING HAS HISTORIC, IT'S JUST OLD. THAT'S ALL IT IS. I'M OLD. I'M NOT HISTORIC. I'M JUST OLD AND BROKEN DOWN. SO WE HAVE A BROKEN DOWN BUILDING THAT'S BEEN VACANT FOR EIGHT YEARS. OH, WELL, IT'S THE TUDOS FAMILY. THEY'RE IMPORTANT. THEY LEFT 40 YEARS AGO. IF IT WAS IMPORTANT, WHY DIDN'T SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING 40 YEARS AGO? THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS WHEN WE BUY A PROPERTY, WE DO DUE DILIGENCE. WE CHECK THE ZONING WE HAD. THIS PROPERTY WAS NOT IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. THERE WAS NEVER ANY INDICATION THAT ANYONE REMOTELY THOUGHT THIS PROPERTY WAS HISTORIC. IN GOOD FAITH, WE BUY IT, START A, START A PROCESS. AND THEN BECAUSE THE COUNCILMAN CAN'T GET HER WAY ONE WAY, SHE DOES IT THIS WAY, THAT'S JUST NOT RIGHT. SO HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS. IF WE DON'T TEAR DOWN THIS BUILDING, WE CAN'T BUILD THE SHOPPING CENTER. WHY? BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE GREAT WALL OF CHINA BLOCKING THE VIEW. AND WHY WOULD WE GO SPEND ALL THIS MONEY ON A BEAUTIFUL NEW SHOPPING CENTER TO HAVE THIS IN FRONT? OKAY? YOU CAN'T SEE IT TILL YOU'RE PAST THE BUILDING. THE PROPERTY IS 20,000 SQUARE FEET AND HAS 10 PARKING SPACES. I CAN'T EVEN PARK THE EMPLOYEES. IF I COULD FIND A USE, I CAN'T PARK THE EMPLOYEES. SO I ASKED MS. MILLER AND SEE, HER COMMENT WAS, OH, WE'LL, I'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO DO IT RIGHT OUT THERE IN THE HALLWAY. SHE SAID, I'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO VOTE APARTMENT. I ASKED HER, HOW MANY PROPERTIES HAVE YOU REHABIL? HOW MANY HAVE DEVELOPED SILENCE? NONE. OKAY, SO HOW MANY, WELL, WE'LL LET YOU GET A VARIANCE SO YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PARKING BECAUSE BY CODE I HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF SPACES PER SQUARE FOOT. OKAY? RIGHT NOW ON THE SPACES I HAVE, I COULD LEASE A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET OUT OF THE BUILDING. OKAY, WELL, IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT YOU TAKE AWAY THE REQUIREMENT FOR PARKING. I STILL CAN'T EVEN PARK THE EMPLOYEES. SO NOW WE'VE GET INTO, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU READ ALL THIS PROPERTY? YOU COULD NOT GET A CO OR A BUILDING PERMIT ON THIS PROPERTY IN ITS CURRENT CONDITION. AND IF YOU WANT TO DO SO, YOU HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A CONTINUOUS CURB ALONG FLOORS IN PLEASANTON, THE CITY WOULD CLOSE IT DOWN TO ONE DRIVEWAY. I WOULD LOSE HALF MY 10 SPACES DOWN TO FIVE. SO MS. MILLER, WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT THIS BUSINESS THAN I DO? WELL, WE'LL LET YOU TEAR DOWN THE BACK, THE PORTION THAT WAS ADDED. WOULD YOU NOT AGREE YOU MADE THAT COMMENT? NOT SUGGEST THAT. OKAY, SHE SUGGESTED THAT. OKAY, SO I BROUGHT UP THAT'S FINE. BUT ART REINHARDT AND T C I ISN'T GONNA LET YOU BACK ONTO A CITY STREET. IT'S AGAINST THE U D C. YOU CAN'T DO IT. I FIGHT THIS FIGHT EVERY DAY ON FREDERICKSBURG ROAD, WHERE YOU BACK INTO THE STREET. OKAY? SO I GAINED NOTHING BY TEARING DOWN THE BACK BUILDING. SO HER RESPONSE, WELL CLOSE TO-DOS. OKAY? WASN'T THAT YOUR RESPONSE? HERE'S WHAT I'LL CLARIFY. WHAT I SAID TO YOU IS THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF SOLUTIONS AND THAT I AND T C I AND OTHERS WOULD BE HAPPY TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU TO DISCUSS 'EM IF YOU WANT TO, BUT YOU DID NOT TAKE US UP ON THAT. CAN YOU TELL ME ONE SOLUTION? I I'M AN IDIOT. I HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION. AGAIN, ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. I'M CLARIFYING FOR THEIR BENEFIT. WHAT I TOLD YOU, WE DID NOT HAVE ANY FOLLOW-UP CON CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE YOU DID NOT TAKE ME UP ON THE OFFER. WHEN I TRIED TO TAKE HER UP AND ASKED HER FOR HER EXPERIENCE, SHE SAID SHE HAD NONE. SO THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THE CODES. FIRST OFF, IF YOU GO TO CLOSE TODOS CHRISTINA DE LA CRUZ AND TRAFFIC, FIRST THING SHE'S GONNA DO IS, WELL, THAT'S A CURB. NOW THAT'S A CURB I WOULD HAVE TO ENTER FROM HERE TO GET ALL THE WAY UP HERE. THAT'S NOT FEASIBLE TO ENTER TO THE BACK OF A SHOPPING CENTER. OKAY? SO LET'S GO BACK TO THE WHOLE CLOSE TWO DUDES, WHICH WAS HER GREAT SUGGESTION. IF ONE OF HER POINTS OF CONTENTION IS THAT THE TWO DUDE'S NAME IS HISTORIC, WHY ARE YOU SO ENCOURAGING ME TO CLOSE TODO STREET AND GET RID OF THE NAME IF IT'S HISTORIC, IF IT CAN'T BE HISTORIC IN ONE SIDE OF THE STREET AND IT, AND NOT HISTORICAL ON THE OTHER. WE'RE NOT DOING QUANTUM PHYSICS HERE. IT CAN'T BE BOTH THINGS AT ONCE. SO IS THE NAME TUDU HISTORIC OR NOT HISTORIC? LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT DID THE FAMILY DO? THEY HAD FIVE GROCERY STORES. I'VE GOT 14 CAR WASHES. DOES THAT MEAN MY NAME'S [00:25:01] HISTORIC? WHAT DID THEY DO? THEY FAILED. THEY FAILED AT BUSINESS. SO WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO NOW? TAKE EVERY HANDY ANDY BUILDING AND SAY HIS HISTORIC, BECAUSE CHARLES BECKER, WHO WAS A FORMER MAYOR, OPERATED IT. ARE WE GONNA TAKE EVERY OLD FIRST MATE, FISH AND CHIP AND SAY HIS HISTORIC, BECAUSE RED MCCOMBS WAS AN INVESTOR IN IT. I MEAN, WE CAN GO ON AND ON WITH FAILED BUSINESSES IN THIS TOWN. SO IS THE FACT THAT YOU'RE A FAILED BUSINESS, HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT? SO, SO ONE THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY IS THAT THIS IS ABOUT ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE AND HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S OTHER ASPECTS TO THIS QUESTION. AND BY THE ARGUMENTS THAT YOU'RE MAKING, ARCHITECTURALLY, WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY HISTORIC, UH, BUILDINGS THAT WE COULD SAVE JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF, OF THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT. THIS, YOU KNOW, VOLUNTEER POSITION UP HERE. THIS IS NOT EASY. SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS TRYING TO HEAR, UM, BOTH SIDES OF THIS SITUATION. AND TO ME, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, I GUESS THE ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS BUILDING. AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE YOU TO SPEAK TO. OKAY. SO IF TWO ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, AND THEY NEED THREE OF 16 ITEMS TO DEEM IT HISTORIC, THEY ONLY REFER TO TWO ARCHITECTURAL CONDITIONS. SO IF WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT ON ARCHITECTURAL CONDITIONS BY THEIR OWN APPLICATION, THEY DON'T MEET THE CRITERIA. SO THE CRITERIA NOW BECOMES WHETHER A BUILDING MOVED OR NOT IS HISTORIC, OR WHETHER A FAMILY THAT FAILED AT BUSINESS, IS IT HISTORIC OR NOT? BECAUSE, AND I'LL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION IN A SECOND. I'M TRYING TO MAKE A POINT, IS IF THEY HAD SEVEN ARCHITECTURAL ARGUMENTS, OKAY, THEN I COULD SAY, OKAY, FINE, WE COULD ARGUE AND THEY COULD STILL HAVE THREE. BUT WHEN THEY ONLY HAVE TWO ARCHITECTURAL ARGUMENTS, THEY DON'T MEET THE CRITERIA. NOW, IN REFERENCE TO SIGNIFICANCE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH FREDERICKSBURG ROAD, THERE'S AN OLD BUILDING THERE CALLED JOE'S GYM. WE BOUGHT IT, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE BEEN BY THERE, BUT WE'RE DOING PROBABLY THE NEATEST REHAB YOU'LL EVER SEE. ART DECO, STAINLESS STEEL OPENED UP A PORTION OF THE BUILDING FOR AN OUTDOOR PATIO, DID LOTS OF NEAT STUFF. I OWN THE DECO BUILDING. I'M CONSTANTLY OUT THERE TRYING TO, TO FIX THAT UP. OKAY? SO IF SOMETHING HAS HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE THAT WE CAN PLAY OFF OF, WE'LL USE IT. THIS IS JUST AN OLD, UGLY BUILDING AND I CAN'T DO ANYTHING TO MAKE IT NOT AN OLD, UGLY BUILDING. THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO THAT CHANGES THIS INTO ANYTHING ANYBODY WANTS TO SEE. I, I, UM, AND LIKE MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE IS SAYING, IT, IT, IT CAN BE KIND OF, UM, DIFFICULT TO, UH, AGREE WITH EVERYTHING. I, I I I JUST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, LISTENING TO EVERYTHING AND, AND KNOWING THAT THERE'S MANY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. I I JUST BE STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH YOU. TO ME, THE, THE BUILDING'S VERY HISTORICALLY, UH, SIGNIFICANT AND ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT. NOW THAT, THAT'S REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE OR WHO I AM, YOU CAN HAVE YOUR OPINION, BUT, BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, BEING, BEING A SOUTH SIDER AND KNOWING WHAT BUILDINGS, UM, ARE SIGNIFICANT OR WHAT LANDMARKS ARE SIGNIFICANT TO, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST BEING, BEING IN THAT COMMUNITY, THE, THE, THE BUILDING IN ITS CURRENT CONDITION, I WOULD SAY, YEAH, IT, IT, IT IS, UH, KIND OF A VICTIM OF ARCHITECTURAL NEGLECT. BUT IF YOU, I MEAN, AND IT'S NOT A SUGGESTION, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF IT BEING AN UGLY BUILDING, IT, IT'S IN AN UGLY STATE, BUT HAVING A, YOU KNOW, QUITE A BIT OF EXPERIENCE IN PRESERVATION ARCHITECTURE, PERSONALLY, THAT'S A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING. IT JUST, IT IS JUST, IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T SEE THE WINDOWS THAT ARE COVERED, IF YOU CAN'T IMAGINE THEM, THEY'RE THERE. THE LINES, UM, AND I'M NOT SURE IT'S AN ARGUMENT FOR OR AN ARGUMENT AGAINST, IT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, A COMMON, UM, UM, THERE'S A SAYING IN ARCHITECTURE, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN IT'S ARCHITECTURE? AND THE ANSWER IS, IS IN, IN THE WAY THEY TEACH. THE ANSWER IS JUST THAT I LOOK AT IT AND I SEE THAT IT'S, IT'S BEAUTIFUL. YOU KNOW WHAT I SEE? SO, SO YOU CAN SEE, YOU CAN SEE IT A, A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING THERE THAT GOES BACK, I, I GUESS TOO, PRE, PRE, UH, CRASH PERIOD. IT TELLS A STORY OF WHEN THE TIME THE, THE AREA WAS, WAS VIBRANT. I DON'T KNOW IF THE DU FAMILY IS RELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT OF THE ARCHITECTURE. I KNOW IN TERMS OF THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO THE CITY, CULTURALLY, [00:30:01] THEY WERE A FAMILY WHO GAVE A LOT. UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW SIGNIFICANT THAT IS TO THE BUILDING. I, I KNOW THAT THE BUILDING AT ONE TIME WAS CONSIDERED LIKE THE FIRST OF THE COMMUNITY CENTERS. UH, SO IT, IT, IT, IT IS A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING WITHOUT A DOUBT. AND, AND I LOOK AT IT, I LOOK AND, AND, AND WONDER, IT SEEMS STRUCTURALLY SOUND, UM, IS, IS DOES THAT HELP TO KIND OF GUIDE? YEAH. AND LET ME, LET ME, LET ME ADDRESS YOUR, YOUR CONTEXT. FIRST OFF, CAN I JUST ASK FOR ONE THING, MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN WE MOVE ON TO THE PUBLIC CITIZENS THAT BEFORE WE START COMMENTING OR, AND THEN HAVE THE APPLICANT BACK UP AND WE CAN HAVE CONTINUOUS DISCUSSION? I'D LIKE TO ANSWER HIS QUESTION SINCE HE JUST ASKED HIM, OR, OR STATEMENTS. YOU'RE SAYING THE OOS FAMILY GAVE A LOT, SO THAT SHOULD MEAN SOMETHING. NO, NO, IT JUST, IN TERMS OF THE CRITERIA, THERE'S, THERE'S ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, BUT THERE'S ALSO CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE THAT WE'RE, UH, CHARGED WITH AS WELL. UH, SO, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF THE STORY THAT A PARTICULAR THING TELLS THE FUTURE ABOUT THE CITY, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT REALLY JUST A BRICKS AND MORTAR THINKER, RIGHT? WHEN IT COMES TO ARCHITECTURAL, ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT REACHES SO FAR BACK THAT IT TELLS US SOMETHING THAT WE COULD FORGET, UM, THEN IT, THEN IT HAS MERIT TO CONSIDER, UH, UH, HOW FAR DO WE GO WHEN IT COMES TO SAVING THINGS, RIGHT? BECAUSE CLEARLY, LIKE MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE SAID, WE COULD TEAR EVERYTHING DOWN. AND, AND IT'S VERY, IT IS A VERY, UH, UH, UH, CONTROVERSIAL AND VERY, UH, DIFFICULT SITUATION TO BE SITTING THERE AND TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT STAYS AND WHAT GOES. SO THAT'S KIND OF LIKE WHERE WE'RE AT AND WHERE THE LINE OF QUESTIONING OR THE LINE OF COMMENT SHOULD BE. AND SO THE MORE SIGNIFICANT THING TO ME FROM YOU IS WHY YOU THINK IT SHOULD GET TORN DOWN. SO FIRST OFF, ONE OF THE COMMENTS YOU MADE WAS THE, THE, THE FAMILY OR NOT? NOT, OKAY. NOT BE HISTORIC, RIGHT? OKAY. ONE OF THE COMMENTS YOU MADE IS, THE FAMILY NAME IS WORTH BECAUSE THEY GAVE THE COMMUNITY, I GAVE A PARK IN A SENIOR CENTER TO THE, TO THE CITY, GR NOTTA PARK FOR NOTTA SENIOR CENTER OVER IN DISTRICT ONE. SIGNIFICANT, SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL GIFT FOR ME, THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOVES IT. DOES HAVING DONE THAT MAKE ANYTHING I TOUCH HISTORIC? NO, I DID IT AS A STORY. 'CAUSE I GREW UP IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I HAVE A BELOW AVERAGE IQ AND TWO SEVERE LEARNING DISABILITIES. I LEARNED TO READ AT THE WESTFALL LIBRARY DOWN THE STREET FROM THIS PARK BY READING ALOUD AND SPELLING TO MY MOTHER. SO I WANTED, I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING FOR THE COMMUNITY, SO I GAVE TO THE CITY, RIGHT? BUT WHEN YOU'RE LONG GONE, I WOULD PROBABLY BE, UH, TALKING FOR PRESERVING YOUR, UH, UH, CONTRIBUTIONS THROUGH IF THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT BUILDING THAT YOU HAD AND THAT THINGS HAPPEN THERE AND THAT, THAT, THAT PEOPLE, THAT, THAT ARCHITECTURALLY IT'S SOMETHING OR THAT CULTURALLY IT'S SOMETHING. SO THE ANSWER IS TYPICALLY, LIKE IF WE WERE TO ASK, YOU MENTIONED THE MAYOR, HE MIGHT SAY, NO, DON'T SAVE THAT IN MY NAME. BUT THEN IN THE FUTURE, WE MAY, AND YOU MAY SAY, TODAY, NO, DON'T SAVE IT IN MY NAME, BUT IN THE FUTURE, WE MAY SAY, IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW HE FELT ABOUT THIS OR THAT HE A SIGNIFICANT BUILDING. OKAY, LET'S, IT COULD BE YOURS. WE HAVE SOME CITIZENS TO BE HEARD, AND THEN WE'LL CALL YOU BACK UP. OKAY? BUT I DO WANT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE BUILDING ITSELF. OKAY. OKAY. MARY MEDFORD. AND I'M MARY MEDFORD, AND I'M HERE IN, UH, FOR THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CONCURS WITH THE O H P STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR 4 0 0 7 SOUTH FLORES. THE 1926 TWOS BUILDING. THE BUILDING RETAINS ITS HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES, DESPITE BEING OBSCURED BY PAINT AND SIGNAGE. THE BUILDING REPRESENTS AN IMPORTANT CHAPTER IN SAN ANTONIO, AS IT WAS CONSTRUCTED BY AC OOS, WHO HAD A SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE ON THE COMMERCIAL HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY. ARCHITECTURALLY THE BUILDING UTILIZED CAST, CONCRETE AND BRICK TO CREATE A SPANISH ECLECTIC VARIATION ON THE PREVALENT, PREVALENT COMMERCIAL STYLE. THE SECOND FLOOR ORIGINALLY HOSTED THE COMMUNITY CENTER, TODOS HALL, AND ITS LOCATION AT FLORES. AND PLEASANTON IS AN ESTABLISHED AND FAMILIAR FEATURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CONCUR THAT THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION, THAT THE BUILDING MEETS FOUR OF THE CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. VANESSA RODRIGUEZ. [00:35:03] HELLO, WOULD YOU LIKE MY NAME AND ADDRESS? VANESSA RODRIGUEZ, ONE 20. CLAY IN THE HEART OF SOUTHTOWN. I'M HERE AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN, AND I OPPOSE THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION. I'M NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE DEVELOPER OWNER, SO IF YOU HAVE ANY NEGATIVE THOUGHTS TOWARDS HIM, PLEASE DO NOT TRANSFER THEM TOWARDS ME. I AM HERE JUST AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN BECAUSE I PASS THIS CORNER WEEKLY. AND TO ME, THIS BUILDING IS A VACANT EYESORE. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU APPRECIATE THE ARCHITECTURE AND WHAT THIS BUILDING USED TO BE, AND I'VE SEEN A DRAWING FROM 1941. IT WAS A COOL BUILDING. HOWEVER, SINCE I MOVED TO SOUTHTOWN, IT HAS BEEN A VACANT EYESORE, AND I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING. OH, SHE'S NEW TO SOUTHTOWN. SHE WANTS TO BRING ALL THIS CHANGE. I LIVE IN A GENERATIONAL HOUSE, UH, ONE THAT MY DAD GREW UP IN. HE WENT TO BLESSED SACRAMENT AND ST. HENRY'S AND WORKED AT WONG'S GROCERY STORE. I LIVE RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER FROM WONG'S GROCERY. SO I'M FROM THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL. AND I WANNA SEE THE CITY MOVE FORWARD. WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE PAST, AND THAT KEEPS US IN THE PAST. WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD, BRING MORE DENSITY, BRING MORE ECONOMIC GROWTH TO THIS AREA OF TOWN. I SHOP AT NO GTOS. MY DOG GOES TO THE ALAMO DOG AND CAT HOSPITAL ON PLEASANTON. I SPEND MY MONEY IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, AND WE NEED MORE PLACES FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO SPEND THEIR MONEY. INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE NORTH SIDE, THEY NEED TO SUPPORT THE SOUTH SIDE. AND YEAH, A CAR WASH MAY HAVE NOT BEEN MY FIRST CHOICE, BUT THEN AGAIN, I DIDN'T BUY THE BUILDING. IF I HAD BOUGHT IT, I COULD HAVE DONE WHATEVER I WANTED WITH IT. HE BOUGHT THE BUILDING. HE WANTS TO PUT A CAR WASH PEOPLE ON THE SOUTH SIDE, LIKE WASHING THEIR CARS. AND NOT JUST THAT, I SAW THE OTHER PLANS. THERE'S GONNA BE A RESTAURANT, AN ICE CREAM SHOP, MORE ACTIVITY. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED. THAT SECTION ISN'T NEGLECTED. IF WE HAVE MORE ACTIVITY, IT'LL SUPPORT THE TIRE SHOP THAT'S RIGHT THERE. IT'LL SUPPORT THE ALAMO DOG AND CAT HOSPITAL. PEOPLE WON'T BE GOING TO THE NORTH SIDE FOR ACTIVITIES AND FOR THEIR BUSINESS. THEY'LL KEEP THEIR MONEY ON THE SOUTH SIDE. THESE PLACES COULD EMPLOY LOCAL TEENAGERS. NOT EVERYBODY CAN WORK AT E G B. SO WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT AT ONE TIME, THIS BUILDING WAS SIGNIFICANT, AND THE ARCHITECTURE MAY BE BEAUTIFUL, SOMEWHAT, THIS BUILDING PROBABLY HAS A LOT OF LEAD PAINT AND ASBESTOS AND WILL NEED A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REMEDIATION AS WELL. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH IT AT THE COST OF THE FUTURE SAN ANTONIOS. AND SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. I'M ON MY LUNCH BREAK, I GOTTA GO BACK TO WORK, SO THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, THERE'S A COUPLE OF NAMES CROSSED OUT. THERE'S A, UM, TIM COCHRAN AND A MICHAEL HOSPITAL. OKAY, YOU DON'T WISH TO SPEAK. OKAY, TRICIA. UM, ADA FAY, EXCUSE ME. HELLO, MY NAME IS TRICIA FAY. I AM A LIFELONG SOUTH SIDE CITIZEN. I GREW UP IN DISTRICT THREE. I GREW, UH, I WAS BORN AND RAISED ON WEST PYRON. I ATTENDED DALE HIGH SCHOOL. I AM STILL CURRENTLY A SOUTH SIDE RESIDENT. I NOW RESIDE OVER IN THE PALM HEIGHTS LOCATION. UM, I AM OPPOSING FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THIS BUILDING. I'VE HEARD THE REMARKS OF NOT SEEN ANY HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. I'VE HEARD THAT IT'S ONLY AN EYESORE. WELL, IF OF COURSE, YOU LOOK AT THE BUILDING, YOU'VE GOT ALL THIS UGLY SIGNAGE. UM, PRO, AFTER THE TWO DES BUILDING WAS VACANT. AND NOT EVERY BUSINESS LASTS FOREVER. LOTS OF BUSINESS FAIL OR CLOSE FOR VARIOUS REASONS. WHEN YOU BOARD UP THE WINDOWS, WHICH, WHICH MAKES, WHICH BRINGS BEAUTY TO THIS BUILDING, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A EYESORE. JUST LOOK AT IT. IT'S GOT, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY WINDOWS, BUT IT'S GOT MANY, MANY WINDOWS. THIS CAN BE USED AS MAYBE LIVING SPACES UPSTAIRS, DOWNSTAIRS, AND CAN BE USED FOR A RESTAURANT. UH, ARTISTS, UM, WORK LIFT SPACES, RESTAURANT. IT CAN, IT HAS ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES. NOW, TO BE TORN DOWN FOR A CAR WASH SHOPPING CENTER IN THE BACK WILL HAVE A, ANOTHER NUMEROUS, UH, WAS HOW MANY DO WE HAVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE? HOW MANY WASS DO WE HAVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE? HOW MANY CAR WASHES DO WE HAVE ON THE SOUTH SIDE? BROOK CITY BASE, NEW DEVELOPMENT. HOW MANY CAR WASHES ARE ON THERE? WHAT IS, WHAT DOES THAT BRING TO THE COMMUNITY THAT DOESN'T BRING ANY BEAUTY AND SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL. WE DO [00:40:01] NOT NEED ANOTHER CAR WASH, ESPECIALLY IN THIS TRIANGLE. SOUTH SIDE IS GROWING, DEVELOPMENT IS GROWING. THIS IS A CORRIDOR TO SOUTH TOWN OF KING WILLIAM. I WANNA SEE SOMETHING DONE WITH THIS BUILDING. EVERY BUILDING. HA, EVERY OLD BUILDING HAS A BEST ASS LEAD PAINT, BUT IT'S DOABLE. WE ALL KNOW THAT. SO I WANNA SEE THIS BUILDING THRIVE. I WANNA, I DON'T WANT IT DEMOLISHED. I WANNA SEE SOME DONE SOMETHING WITH IT THAT WE NEED, THAT WE LACK IN THE SOUTH SIDE COMMUNITY. THEY HAVE, THERE'S NUMEROUS BUILDINGS ON SOUTH FLORIST, WHICH IS ONE OF THE OLDEST NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. THEY HAVE, WE HAVE MANY BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN, HAVE BEEN RENOVATED. I THINK THIS BUILDING DESERVES THE SAME LOVE. AND WE, THERE'S MANY POSSIBILITIES THAT CAN BE DONE WITH THIS BUILDING. SO THE LAST THING I WANNA SEE IS ANOTHER CAR WASH THAT WE DO NOT NEED ON THE SOUTH SIDE. WE DESERVE MORE AND BETTER THAN THE CAR WASH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR CITIZENS. YES. YES, SIR. PLEASE COME BACK UP. UH, SINCE WE WANNA GO WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS, THE BUILDING OR ALL THE WONDERFUL THINGS WE CAN DO WITH THE BUILDING, BECAUSE I'M TOO STUPID TO KNOW AS TO HELPING THE SOUTH SIDE. SHE REFERENCED BROOKS CITY BASE, BROOKS CITY BASE. AND MS. MILLER LAUGHED WHEN I MADE THIS COMMENT, BUT IF YOU KNOW THE HISTORY, YOU'LL KNOW I'M CORRECT. BROOKS CITY BASE TODAY EXISTS BECAUSE OF ME. IN, IN 2002, KAY BAILEY HUTCHINSON WAS GONNA TAKE BROOKS BACK FROM THE CITY FOR NON-PERFORMANCE. I WROTE, ME PERSONALLY WROTE THE 13 AND A HALF MILLION DOLLARS CHECK TO BUY THE FRONT TO BUILD THE FIRST SHOPPING CENTER, WHICH LED TO D B T LED TO THE HOSPITAL. IN 18 YEARS, WE HAVE CREATED OVER 7,500 JOBS AND $250 MILLION OF TAX BASE AT BROOKS CITY BASE. SO FOR HER TO SAY THE SOUTH SIDE DESERVES BETTER CITY-BASED OUTPERFORMS, BROADWAY, STONE OAK, AND ALL THE METRICS. SO WE BROUGHT STARBUCKS TO THE SOUTH SIDE. WE BROUGHT CANE'S, WE BROUGHT CHICK-FIL-A BEST BUY, CHILIES 54 STREET GRILL. I BROUGHT 'EM. I'M THE ONE THAT GOT LAUGHED AT CALLING ON THESE PEOPLE ABOUT THE SOUTH SIDE IS BUNCH OF POOR, UNEDUCATED MEXICANS. WE EDUCATED THEM AND WE'VE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL. FOR HER TO, TO, TO, TO TAKE A SHOT AT CITY BASE IS NOT BEING BROKEN IS TOTALLY WRONG. SECOND, YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT USE ALTERNATIVE THERE IS A DORMITORY. ASK THE PEOPLE IN BEACON HILLS HOW MUCH THEY LIKE THE DORMITORY AT FREDERICKSBURG AND I 10 WITH PEOPLE URINATING ON THE SIDEWALK DEFECATING, BECAUSE THAT'S ALL YOU CAN DO WITH IT. AND THAT'S ALL I WILL DO WITH IT. THERE NO ONE HAD PRESENTED ANY PLAN TO REDO THIS BUILDING. AND OF COURSE, PEOPLE ARE REAL GOOD WITH GIVING AWAY OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY. SO NO ONE HAS OFFERED ANY SUGGESTIONS. HOW I PAY FOR THIS, I, I'M WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO GET THEIR CHECKBOOKS OUT. SO IT COMES BACK TO THE BASIC ARGUMENT. YOU NEED THREE CRITERIA TO DEEM IT HISTORIC. ONLY TWO OF THOSE DEAL WITH ARCHITECTURE. IT, IT'S HER APPLICATION, NOT MINE. SO WHETHER OR NOT YOU BELIEVE IT'S ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT OR NOT ISN'T REALLY THE POINT HERE. IT'S DO YOU THINK BECAUSE A BUILDING HASN'T MOVED MEANS IT'S HISTORIC? OR DO YOU THINK BECAUSE A FAMILY HAD A BUSINESS THERE, IT'S HISTORIC. LET'S TALK ABOUT HISTORIC. MY DAD WAS THE FIRST MEXICAN AMERICAN TO MAKE DETECTIVE ON THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE FORCE POLICEMAN, THE YEAR 57 AND 58. HE WAS THE LAST SURVIVING GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL APPOINTED BY JOHN KENNEDY IN 1953 WHEN HE BECAME A US MARSHAL. THAT DOESN'T MAKE MY DAD HISTORIC. IT JUST MAKES HIM AN OLD DEAD GUY. ALRIGHT? I MEAN, WE WANT TO CREATE HI HISTORIES ABOUT THINGS THAT PEOPLE DID BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY DID FOR A LIVING. THE OOS SOLD GROCERIES. THAT IN AND OF ITSELF ISN'T HISTORIC. EV THEY DIDN'T INVENT THE SHOPPING CART OR SELF-SERVE, THEY JUST SOLD GROCERIES. SO IF, IF YOU WANNA SAY, MR. VELAZQUEZ IS THE BUILDING HAS HISTORIC, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA ARGUE WITH YOU. YOU CAN, YOU HAVE YOUR OPINION. I'M JUST SAYING THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO WITH IT OTHER THAN LEAVE IT AS A CURRENT CONDITION. SO WHAT HAPPENS? I LEAVE IT A CONCURRENT CONDITION. WE DON'T BUILD A SHOPPING CENTER. DO YOU HAVE THE PICTURES OF THE HOUSES? SO WE HAVE A BUNCH OF BURNED OUT VACANT HOUSES THAT ARE BOARDED UP, THAT SIT THERE. I'VE GOT CODE COMPLIANCE ON ME ABOUT DEMOING EVERYTHING, AND I CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE SHE TIED THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH SIDE. NO, NO, NO, NO. THOSE HOUSES HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED FOR DEMOLITION. I CAN'T DO ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER. THIS [00:45:01] IS WHAT WE'RE, WE WANT TO KEEP THIS BUILDING TO ALSO KEEP THIS, WE HAVE DONE THE ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT. IT'S GONNA COST ME A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TO TEAR EVERYTHING DOWN AND DO ENVIRONMENTAL RE REMEDIATION. MY UNDERSTANDING FROM MS. MILLER, THAT IS, SHE HAS MADE THE OFFER TO MEET WITH YOU ALONG WITH T C I AND DISCUSS OPTIONS FOR THIS SITE. THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN, IF THIS IS DEEMED SIGNIFICANT, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO WITH THE BUILDING. TELL ME ONE THING YOU CAN DO WITH IT. RETAIL WITH, WITH EIGHT PARKING SPACES. LEMME ASK YOU THIS. HOW MANY SHOPPING CENTERS HAVE YOU DEVELOPED? I DON'T KNOW, JUST 10, 20, 30? NOT THAT MANY. I'M ALL INTO THE TWO HUNDREDS. OKAY, SO YOU KNOW MORE. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, BUY THE BUILDING FROM ME. IF YOU THINK IT'S A RETAIL CENTER, GO BUY THE BUILDING FROM ME. I OFFERED ONE SUGGESTION. THERE'S MANY OPTIONS FOR THIS BUILDING. UM, I THINK UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME OTHER INFORMATION TO ADD TO, UH, YOUR, UH, ARGUMENT FOR NOT SIGNIFICANT DESIGNATION, UH, WE'D LIKE TO MOVE ON WITH THE CASE. GO AHEAD. DO WHATEVER YOU WANNA DO. CAN I ASK STAFF? UM, WE, UM, REDEEMED THIS HISTORIC BASED ON, UM, THE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE DONE WITH OTHER PROPERTIES. AND THEN THIS GOES TO CITY COUNCIL, RIGHT? SO WE'RE NOT THE LAST RESORT. WHAT CRITERIA DOES CITY COUNCIL LOOK AT? THEY LOOK AT, THEY'RE, THEY'RE BOUND TO THE SAME U D C CRITERIA THAT WE ARE. SO THEY SEE ALL OF THE PUBLIC EXHIBITS PRESENTED HERE IN CONSIDERATION OF THE CASE, AS WELL AS THE COMMISSION ACTION, UH, RELATED TO WHATEVER OUTCOME HAPPENS TODAY. AND, AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE, I THINK WE HAVE IN THE PAST MAYBE ONE OR TWO CASES SEEN THAT CITY COUNCIL HAS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION THE USE OR THE WHATEVER THE, UH, OWNER OF THE BUILDING PRESENTATION THEY DO AT CITY COUNCIL AS WELL, RIGHT? SO, YES, THE OWNER IS GIVEN TIME AT CITY COUNCIL AS WELL TO MAKE THEIR CASE. I, UM, I'M, I FEEL SORRY FOR THE OWNER THAT HE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE HE HAS ANY OUTLETS. I LIVE IN THE DECO DISTRICT. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE WORK THAT THE OWNER HAS DONE WITH OTHER BUILDINGS. I'M VERY PLEASED AND I KNOW THAT HE'S A VERY GOOD DEVELOPER AND BRINGS GOOD TO SAN ANTONIO. UM, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AS A PROPERTY NO MATTER WHO OWNS IT. UM, THERE ARE SOME CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE AND HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE, AND I AGREE WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT A MOTION MOTION TO IN A SECOND APPROVE THE LANDMARK. THE MOTION IS SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYE. MOTION PASSES. MOTION PASSES. YOU RETAIN YOUR RIGHTS UNDER A LAWSUIT, EVEN THOUGH THE OTHER SIDE GAVE UP AND AGREED TO YOUR RIGHT. SO, POINT OF ORDER, SIR. THIS TAKES A SUPER MAJORITY POINT OF ORDER. THERE'S BEEN, THERE'S BEEN ACTION TAKEN. WE'RE MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. Y'ALL ALL JUST BOUGHT YOURSELF A PERSONAL LAWSUIT. Y'ALL DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TAKE THIS ACTION, MR. GR THE CITY, THE CITY IS GONNA STOP, STOP THREATENING THE COMMISSIONERS NOW. I'M NOT THREATENING. I'M GIVING YOU JUST THREATENED THEM. SIT DOWN. Y'ALL ARE GONNA GET SUED. PERSONALLY. SIT DOWN. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, YOU'RE UNDER THE U D C AND THE U D C DOESN'T HAVE AN APPLICATION TO START THIS PROCESS. CASE NUMBER [A-8 19-8233 Address/Description: 123 N ST MARYSHDRC Case No.: 2019-633Landmark Name: Sullivan BuildingRIO District: RIO-3Applicant: Patrick Shearer/Crockett Urban Ventures LLCRequest: Amendments to a previously approved design regardingmaterials, approval of hotel signageCity Council Dist.: 1] A EIGHT, PLEASE. AGENDA ITEM A EIGHT H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 33 1 23 NORTH ST. MARY'S. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO NUMBER ONE, AMEND THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FACADE MATERIALS AND EXTERIOR DETAILS NOW TO INCLUDE PLASTER TO REPLACE THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED MASONRY. TWO TO INSTALL SIGNAGE AT THE PENTHOUSE LEVEL THREE, TO INSTALL SIGNAGE AT THE STREET ON THE STREET CANOPY FOUR, TO INSTALL SIGNAGE ADJACENT TO THE PRIMARY ENTRANCE DOORS. AND FIVE TO INSTALL A MONUMENT SIGN AT THE RIVER LEVEL. SAF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE AMENDMENTS TO THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED MATERIALS TO INCLUDE PLASTER WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. WELL, IN REGARDS TO TIME, I WON'T READ THE STIPULATIONS. YOU CAN LOOK AT THOSE IN DETAIL. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO, THE INSTALLATION OF SIGNAGE, THE PENTHOUSE LEVEL WITH STIPULATIONS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE, THE INSTALLATION OF SIGNAGE ABOVE THE NORTH ST. MARY STREET CANOPY. THE STIPULATION THAT THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE BE INDIRECTLY ILLUMINATED AND FEATURE METAL CONSTRUCTION STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM FOUR. THE INSTALLATION OF WALL PANEL SIGNS AS SUBMITTED AND STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER FIVE, THE INSTALLATION OF A MONUMENT SIGN AT THE RIVERWALK LEVEL, THE STIPULATION THAT THE SIGN FEATURE NO MORE THAN EIGHT SQUARE FEET IN SIZE AND BE INDIRECTLY LIT. [00:50:02] THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. HI, I'M LOUIS MCNEIL WITH LAKE PLATO ARCHITECTS. UM, GREAT, THANK YOU. UM, DO YOU UNDERSTAND ALL OF STAFF'S COMMENTS AND STIPULATIONS? YES, WE DO. AND I ALSO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE OWNER HERE TO SPEAK ON A FEW THINGS AS WELL IF NEEDED. UM, BUT THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK. I WANTED TO, UH, TELL YOU, UH, GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ON THE DESIGN, UH, AND WHERE THE, THE LATEST EXTERIOR DESIGN IS HEADED AND, UH, HOW WE BELIEVE IT'S, IT'S, UM, ADDRESSING THE STIPULATIONS AND LOOK FORWARD TO DISCUSSING THIS AS WE GO. UM, SO THE, THE PROJECT IS A TALL, SLENDER, UM, HOTEL DOWNTOWN. AND THE PRIMARY MATERIAL THAT'S, UH, COMPOSING THE EXTERIOR LOOK IS STUCCO. IT'S A, OR PLASTER. IT'S A THREE COAT INTEGRAL COLOR PLASTER AMONG SOME OTHER MATERIALS. UM, WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT, UM, SOME OF THE HISTORIC FEATURES THAT ARE EMBEDDED IN THE SITE. A COUPLE OF EXISTING, UM, BEAUTIFUL LIMESTONE WALLS THAT ARE BEING RECONSTRUCTED AND REHABILITATED THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY. UM, AND WE ARE RELYING ON A, UH, THE STRATEGY OF THREE CODE INTEGRAL PLASTER, UH, TO HELP THE HISTORIC FEATURES THAT WE ARE STEWARDING ON THE SITE TO REALLY STAND OUT AND TO NOT BE CONFUSED WITH ANYTHING, UH, NEW THAT WE ARE ADDING. UM, AND SO AT, AT THE SAME TIME, THERE IS PRECEDENT FOR THE, UM, INTEGRAL COLOR PLASTER. AND WE'RE LOOKING VERY HEAVILY AT THE SPANISH GOVERNOR'S PALACE DOWNTOWN AS A, AS A NEARBY PROPERTY THAT IS A VERY, VERY MINIMAL CRISP, UM, HISTORIC PLASTER APPLICATION AND, UH, WITH VERY LITTLE ORNAMENT. UM, AND WE ARE ACTUALLY TAKING THAT. AND THEN, UM, THERE'S OUR PROJECT WE FEEL HAS A LOT MORE ORNAMENT AND EMBELLISHMENT THAN, THAN THIS VERY SIMPLE, UM, BEAUTIFUL PLASTER STRUCTURE AS WELL. UH, THE OTHER THINGS WE'RE LOOKING AT ARE OUR NEIGHBORING, UM, BUILDINGS LIKE THE AZTEC THEATER AND THE COLOR, UH, TONES THAT ARE FOUND IN THE BRICK. UH, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE NICKS HOSPITAL BUILDING RIGHT DOWN THE STREET AND THE VERY INTERESTING POPS OF COLOR, VERY SUBTLE THAT YOU'LL SEE IN A MINUTE. UM, AND, UH, THE NEIGHBORING ESQUIRE GRILL, UH, THAT HAS SOME EXTERIOR STEEL AND, UH, INTERESTING POPS OF COLOR AS WELL. UM, SO WE'VE DEVELOPED A PALETTE OF COLORS, UH, THAT WE'RE APPLYING IN VERY CAREFULLY SELECTED WAYS. THERE'S TWO MAJOR COLOR FIELD COLORS, AND THEN A VARIETY OF, OF ACCENT COLORS. UM, AND THE, THE OVERALL LOOK OF THIS, OF THE TOWER AND THE, THE PLASTER THAT WE'RE USING IS MEANT TO BE, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PRECEDENT IMAGE, UH, OF HOTEL SAN JOSE, WHICH WE DID IN AUSTIN. USING A SIMILAR APPLICATION IS A VERY MODELED, UM, UH, SOMEWHAT IRREGULAR COLOR. IT'S NOT A, A SOLID, UH, BLANK, UM, PAINTED COLOR SURFACE. THIS IS A VERY HAND, UH, HAND APPLIED, UH, MATERIAL THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE HAVING ON A, UH, WITH A VARIETY OF COLORS ON A LARGE, UM, QUANTITY OF THE SURFACE OF THE BUILDING. UM, SO TO GET INTO THE, THE DETAILS OF WHAT WE ARE SHOWING, UM, DRAWING FROM THE NICKS HOSPITAL BUILDING DOWNTOWN, THERE'S SOME VERY SUBTLE SMALL LITTLE BITS OF THIS INTERESTING BLUE COLOR. WE'RE INTRODUCING THAT, UH, IN SMALL INTERESTING WAYS ON THE FACADE OF OUR BUILDING ON SEVERAL WALLS. UH, THERE'S ALSO A, A TERRACOTTA RED COLOR ON THAT BUILDING. UM, THE, AND SORRY TO GO BACK AGAIN. AND THE OVERALL STRATEGY OF COLORING OUR, OUR PROJECT IS, IS ABOUT ACCENTING THE FORMAL AND VOLUMETRIC CHANGES OF THE TOWER SO THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A, A MONOLITHIC, UH, SIMPLE SIMPLY, YOU KNOW, SINGLE COLORED, UH, TOWER, UH, GRACING THE CITY SKYLINE. BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF VOLUMETRIC MOVES THAT ARE GIVEN THAT ARE KIND OF COLOR CODED USING THE COLOR PALETTE THAT WE'RE DRAWN TEXT, UM, IN ADDITION TO THE, UH, COLOR PALETTES. UH, SO THERE'S, IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY AT THE AZTEC THEATER, THERE ARE THESE TWO TONES OF BRICK, WHICH WE ARE, UM, PICKING UP ON IN TWO OF THE COLORS OF OUR, OF OUR STECCO. UH, THERE'S ALSO A PALETTE OF EXPOSED STRUCTURAL CONCRETE, WHICH WE'VE BEEN VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE, UM, PATTERNING OF THE FORM WORK AS AN, AS AN, UM, A PART OF THE AESTHETIC LOOK OF THE, OF THE FACADE. SO IT'S A MIXTURE OF STUCCO AND PLASTER OF CONCRETE AND A FEW OTHER THINGS WHICH WE'LL GET INTO. UM, THIS BUILDING ALSO, UH, WORKS WITH PRESERVES AND, AND WORKS TO REHABILITATE AND RECONSTRUCT A COUPLE OF INTERESTING THINGS AROUND IT. UH, THERE IS THE, UH, EXISTING LIMESTONE BUILDING THAT IS ON OUR PROPERTY, WHICH WE ARE RECONSTRUCTING BLOCK BY BLOCK. AND, UM, RETURNING TO ITS, UH, WHAT WE BELIEVE IS THE MOST ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF ITS ORIGINAL STATE. UM, SO THERE WE HAVE THIS VERY SPECIAL HISTORIC LIMESTONE [00:55:01] MOMENT, UH, LONG COMMERCE STREET. UH, AND UP AGAINST THAT MOMENT, WE ARE PROVIDING SOME, WHAT WE SEE AS BREATHING ROOM FOR SOME, UH, QUIETER EXPRESSIONS OF OUR BUILDING AROUND THAT BUILDING. UH, AND ALSO MAKING SURE THERE IS AN INTERESTING ARCHITECTURAL REVEAL, UH, BETWEEN THE HISTORIC BUILDING AND OUR, UH, THE NEW FACADES OF OUR BUILDING NEXT TO IT. UH, THIS IS SHOWING HOW THE SAME COLOR STRATEGY IS CHASING ITSELF AROUND THE CORNER AND ON ALL SIDES OF OUR BUILDING. UM, SO, UH, AND THEN WHAT I BELIEVE IS MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL IS THE EXPERIENCE OF THE BUILDING AT THE STREET LEVEL AND AT THE RIVER WALK LEVEL. UM, AND SO THERE'S A VERY, UH, RICH VARIETY OF, OF COLORS AND TEXTURES AND MATERIALS GOING ON. UM, THERE IS, AS WE POINTED OUT, THE, THE HAND APPLY HAND TROW, UM, INTEGRAL COLOR PLASTER, UH, AT EVERY COLOR MOMENT, UH, AS YOU CAN SEE WITH THE EXAMPLE FROM SAN JOSE. UH, THERE IS, UH, AND WE DIDN'T COMMUNICATE THIS ASPECT OF THE DESIGN EARLIER AND WE'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS ON IT, SO I WANT TO ADDRESS THIS SPECIFICALLY. THERE IS A, UM, THERE ARE MOMENTS WHERE LIMESTONE IS VERY PRESENT IN THE PROJECT. UH, IT'S SIMPLY, UH, EXISTING LIMESTONE THAT WE ARE MAKING SURE WE ARE, ARE NOT, UM, UH, DETRACTING FROM. SO FOR INSTANCE, THE LIMESTONE AND BRICK INFILL WALL THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN, UH, EXISTS ON SITE. UH, WE'RE RECONSTRUCTING THAT, RECONSTRUCTING THAT, UH, WITHIN, ON ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION WITHIN THE LOBBY OF THE BUILDING. AND IT'S A VISIBLE, UH, LIMESTONE ELEMENT FROM THE STREET. SO YOU LOOK THROUGH THAT, UM, BIT OF GLASS, UH, AND YOU'RE PERCEIVING, UH, THE HISTORIC LIMESTONE THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN IN PLACE ON THE SITE. UM, UH, SO BRINGING TO THE STREET SIDE, UH, THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING, UH, WE FELT IT WOULD NOT BE RIGHT, UH, AT THIS POINT TO, UM, UH, GET IN THE WAY OF, AND TAKE AWAY FROM THE EXISTING LIMESTONE BY ADDING NEW, POTENTIALLY NEW LIMESTONE ON THE STREET FRONTAGE. UH, AND INSTEAD WE'RE, UM, REMAINING WITH OUR, UM, PLASTER AND EXPOSED CONCRETE PALETTE, UH, ALONG THE STREET SO THAT THE, UH, HISTORIC LIMESTONE REALLY SINGS BEYOND, UM, DRAWING FROM OUR NEIGHBOR, THE ESQUIRE GRILL. THERE'S PAINTED BLACK STEEL ELEMENTS, UH, GRAY, DARK GRAY STEEL ELEMENTS AROUND AS WELL, AND A VERY PROMINENT, UH, SOFFIT CEILING ON THE THIRD FLOOR, UH, WITH A POP OF COLOR THAT'S DRAWN DIRECTLY FROM THE TRADITIONAL PORCH ROOF KIND OF LANGUAGE THAT SHOWS UP ALL OVER THE PLACE IN, IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS OF OUR CITY. UM, AND THEN ON THE RIVERWALK LEVEL, A PART THAT WAS, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN IN PLACE BUT WASN'T ADEQUATELY COMMUNICATED VISUALLY EARLIER, UH, IS SOME MORE EXISTING HISTORIC LIMESTONE, UM, EMBEDDED BEHIND THE, THE KIND OF NEWER STRUCTURE OF OUR BUILDING ON THE RIVERWALK LEVEL. UH, WE ARE FINALLY EXPOSING TO VIEW A, UH, THE SITE OF A HISTORIC LIMESTONE BUILDING THAT WAS COVERED UP BEFORE, AS WELL AS THIS AMAZING BRICK CISTERN, UH, WHICH IS GETTING RECONSTRUCTED AND REHABILITATED RIGHT THERE ON SITE AS WELL. SO THOSE FEATURES ARE THE PROMINENT, UM, THING ON THE RIVERWALK THAT YOU'LL SEE. UH, WE ARE ALSO, UH, WE ALSO HAVE PLANNED SOME LOW LIMESTONE LANDSCAPE PLANTER WALLS IN FRONT UP ALONG THE RIVERWALK. UH, AND WE BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THAT THAT'S, UH, A GREAT THING TO DO TO, TO WARMTH, TO ADD WARMTH TO OUR, UH, THE COMPOSITIONS AND PALLETS OF OUR BUILDING. AND WE DON'T WANT TO GO ANY FURTHER, UH, WITH FURTHER STONE BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THAT THAT WILL REALLY START TO MUDDLE THE EXPERIENCE OF THE EXISTING STONE THAT WE LOVE SO MUCH, UH, AND WILL, UM, NOT CREATE QUITE AS COMPELLING OF A STORY OF THE OLD VERSUS NEW, UH, THAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS BUILDING. UH, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND LOOK FORWARD TO, UH, FIELDING ANY QUESTIONS. WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. JUST KIDDING. WE DON'T, DON'T HAVE ANY CITIZENS. I, I LIED. UM, SORRY, I WAS LOOKING AT THE DRAWINGS. UM, YES, IF YOU DON'T MIND COMING BACK UP. UH, ONE QUESTION. THE CORNER WALLS THAT ARE AT, UH, ST. MARY'S AND COMMERCE, THOSE ARE NEW LIMESTONE WALLS. THE CORNER WALLS, YOU MEAN DOWN LOW ON THE STREET? YES. ON THE LOWER TWO OR THREE LEVELS? NO, UH, ONE, THE ONE TO THE ON LONG ST. MARY'S STREET IS A STRUCTURAL CONCRETE. THE ONE AROUND THE CORNER ON COMMERCE STREET RIGHT NEXT TO THE HISTORIC STONE BUILDING IS, UH, A CONCRETE COLORED INTEGRAL PLASTER. YEAH, I'LL NOTE THAT THE, UM, APPLICANT AT A DESIGN REVIEW, UH, COMMITTEE MEETING, UM, SHOWED US THIS, UH, THESE MATERIALS AND HE'S DEVELOPED A LITTLE BIT FURTHER BASED UPON SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT [01:00:01] WE HAD. AND IN THAT, THAT CORNER THAT THE CHAIRMAN JUST POINTED OUT WAS ONE OF THE ITEMS THAT CAME UP AND IT WAS THE SUGGESTION OF PICKING UP ON SOME OF THE HOR HORIZONTAL DATUM LINES FROM THE, FROM THE HISTORIC LIMESTONE BUILDING AS CONTROLLED JOINTS FOR THE, THE STUCCO. AND, AND THE APPLICANT HAS PICKED UP ON THAT AND HAS IMPLEMENTED THAT SUGGESTION. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS REGARDING THE SIGNAGE OR STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE SIGNAGE SPECIFICALLY? ITEM NUMBER FIVE? YEAH, I'LL ASK, UH, PATRICKS SHEAR TO COME UP AND TALK TO THOSE, UH, WITH THE OWNER, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT. YES, PLEASE. THANK YOU. I'M PATRICK SHEARER, UM, 5 1 1 1 BROADWAY, AND I WORK WITH CROCKETT URBAN VENTURES, THE DEVELOPER. UM, REALLY APPRECIATED STAFF'S COMMENTS AND WE SHARE A LOT OF THE SAME CONCERNS ABOUT THE SIGNAGE AND MAKING SURE THAT WE GET IT RIGHT. UM, AS PART OF THAT, IN THE TIME THAT WE GOT THE ORIGINAL RECOMMENDATIONS LAST WEEK AND TODAY WE HAVE WORKED WITH OUR SIGNAGE MANUFACTURER AND THEY WERE ABLE TO SHARE SOME PRECEDENCE OF, UM, OTHER EXISTING SIGNS FOR CANOPIES THAT THEY'VE DONE. AND WE WOULD BE USING A SIMILAR, WE WERE PROPOSING TO USE A SIMILAR SYSTEM. UM, SO THIS FIRST IMAGE IS THE CANOPY IN DALLAS. UM, AND THE LIGHTING THAT'S IN THE INDIVIDUAL LETTERS IS A, UH, GE PRODUCT, UH, WITH L E D, UM, BULBS. IT'S AN ENERGY EFFICIENT, UM, AND, AND VERY, I THINK SUBTLE, SOPHISTICATED, UM, NARROW, UH, LETTERS IN THE TIGHT FACE, I THINK, UM, WOULD NEVER BE CONFUSED FOR SORT OF A BACKLIT BOX SIGN OR SOMETHING, UM, LESS ATTRACTIVE. UM, AND I KNOW THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER THERE WOULD BE A GLOW FROM THE, UH, THE SIGNS OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND, UM, WE'RE WILLING TO, UH, WORK WITH STAFF, UM, IN THEIR SUGGESTION TO HAVE AN ONSITE TEST ONCE WE GET TO THAT POINT. JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING IT RIGHT. WE'RE CONFIDENT THAT, UM, IT WILL LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THIS, AND NOT HAVE A UNATTRACTIVE GLOW. UM, THE SMALLER SIGN AT THE, UH, OH, THAT'S SORT OF WHAT IT LOOKS DURING THE DAY, BUT THAT'S OKAY. UH, THE SMALLER SIGN THAT'S AT THE PORT CHE ENTRANCE, UM, IS A SIMILAR, UM, TYPE PRODUCT, BUT ON A SMALLER SCALE, UM, IT WILL BE LESS DIMM THAN THE, UM, BUILDING LEVEL SIGNAGE. UM, IN FACT, THEY HAD SUGGESTED THE ONE THAT'S SHOWN, WHICH IS THE, UH, CANOPY HOTEL IN ATLANTA, UM, THAT WE COULD GO A STEP, UM, LESS BRIGHT THAN THE ONE THEY SHOWED THERE AT NIGHT. THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A GLOW ON THAT, UM, UH, NIGHTTIME ONE. SO WE COULD GO WITH THAT OR WE COULD GO SLIGHTLY, UM, LESS BRIGHT IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS PREFERRED AND WE'D BE OKAY WITH THAT. BUT THIS IS, UM, BRAND STANDARD KIND OF, UH, LIGHTING THAT HAS BEEN DEVELOPED FOR THE BRAND. AND SO IT IS IMPORTANT TO, UM, WE, WE REALLY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS TYPE OF LIGHTING AND AGAIN, ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH YOU ON THE BRIGHTNESS AND, AND ANY GLOWING ISSUES, BUT, UH, RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT WE CAN STICK WITH THAT LIGHTING. UM, AND THEN THE LAST ONE WAS THE RIVERWALK, UM, SIGN. THE ORIGINAL IMAGE THAT WAS IN, UM, THE APPLICATION, THE SIGNAGE PERSON HAD SORT OF PUT ON THE OLD BUILDING BEFORE IT WAS REDEVELOPED. AND SO IT REALLY DIDN'T REFLECT, UM, VERY WELL WHAT WOULD BE THERE. UM, WE ARE PROPOSING A SMALLER SIGN, UM, AS REQUESTED TO, TO CONFORM WITH THE U D C GUIDELINES, UM, THAT IT WOULD NOT EXCEED EIGHT SQUARE FEET. UM, YOU CAN SEE IN THIS, UH, PENCIL RENDERING THE PROPOSED LIMESTONE WALLS THAT, UH, LEWIS MENTIONED, UM, THAT WOULD BE PLANTED AND, AND AT THE ENTRYWAY, UM, OF THE RAMP INTO THAT PATIO AREA. AND SO WE'RE SUGGESTING A, A SMALL MONUMENT TO BE IN THAT SECTION. THAT WOULD BE MASONRY WITH CUTOUT LETTERS. IT WOULD BE INDIRECTLY LIT. UM, NOTHING WITH A BACK LIT AND I THINK WOULD BE THE RIGHT SCALE TO, UH, FOR THE PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC THAT DOES WALK ALONG THE RIVERWALK. MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO, TO, UH, TO, [01:05:01] UH, MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE, UM, APPLICATION WITH STAFF, UH, AS STIPULATED BY STAFF. CAN I COMMENT ON ONE SIGNAGE ITEM NUMBER THREE? I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH THE CLIENT THAT THAT CANOPY SIGNAGE, UM, NOT BE INDIRECTLY LIT AND CAN WORK WITH AND MAYBE JUST, UH, INSTEAD OF HAVING THE STIPULATION OF BEING INDIRECTLY PUT, ADD A STIPULATION THAT THEY WORK WITH STAFF WITH THE AMOUNT OF GLOW AND THE DIMMING OF IT A AS AMENDED BY MY COLLEAGUE O HERE, SECOND, SECOND. I'M NOT SURE I FULLY UNDERSTAND THE MOTION. UM, SO JUST MAKING SURE YOU INTEND TO INCLUDE ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS BECAUSE AS PRESENTED WOULD NOT MEET STAFF STIPULATIONS. WE WERE REQUESTING STONE AND MODULAR MASONRY ON THE STREET LEVELS. WELL, I WAS LOOKING AT THE, THE STAFF APPLICANT INCORPORATED INSTALLATION OF TECHNIQUE FOR ALL PLASTER. THE PRESENTATION TO ME SEEMS THAT THEY HAVE, UH, MADE GOOD EFFORTS TO BE VERY, UH, SENSITIVE TO WHAT WAS THERE HISTORICALLY AND AND TO WORK WITHIN THE MARRIAGE OF THE CONCRETE, THE LINES IN THE CONCRETE AND THEN THE LIMESTONE THAT'S OFF OF CORNER. SO I, I'M, I'M THINKING THAT, THAT WITH THIS PRESENTATION, THAT THEY'VE MET THE REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU WERE FORWARD, WELL, I GUESS IT'S THE ONE IS THE STIPULATION FROM 2016, CORY, THE, THAT YOU'RE THINKING THAT MAYBE WE CAN REMOVE THAT ONE. UM, LEAVE STIPULATION ONE AND TWO ON ITEM NUMBER ONE. EDWARD, WHAT'S OUR STIPULATION FOR ITEM ONE? STIPULATIONS FOR ITEM ONE ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE AN INSTALLATION TECHNIQUE FOR ALL PLASTER THAT ACCOUNTS FOR THE REMOVAL OF TEXT OF THE TEXTURE THAT THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED MASONRY WOULD PROVIDE. TWO, THAT TRADITIONAL MATERIALS SUCH AS BRICK LIMESTONE AND OTHER MASONRY MATERIALS SHOULD BE USED AT THE RIVERWALK AND STREET LEVELS AND ARRANGED IN A WAY THAT PROVIDES AN INTERACTIVE HUMAN SCALE THAT RELATES TO THE PEDESTRIANS AT THE STREET AND RIVER LEVELS. UM, AND THEN THERE WAS AN ADDITIONAL COMMENT AFTER THE RECOMMENDATION STIPULATIONS. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF FINDS THAT THE STIPULATION OF APPROVAL FROM THE AUGUST 16TH, 2016 HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION HEARING IN REGARDS TO STREET LEVEL DETAILING ON EAST COMMERCE BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO THE APPROVAL OF ANY OTHER DESIGN AMENDMENTS. WHILE SIGNIFICANT DESIGN MODIFICATIONS MAY NOT BE INCLUDED, STAFF FINDS THAT MORE DETAILING OTHER THAN A SIMPLE PLASTER FACADE SHOULD BE INCORPORATED. AND ONCE AGAIN, THAT WAS IN REGARDS TO THE ECOMMERCE FACADE. SO THAT COMMENT IS SOMEWHAT TIED TO STIPULATION TWO OF, UH, OF THE RECOMMENDATION FOR ITEM ONE. SO MY UNDERSTANDING BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS IS YOU PREFER FOR THE MOTION TO BE AS PRESENTED TODAY AS PRESENTED, BUT WITH, UH, THE COMMENT ON THE SIGNAGE THAT WAS MADE BY MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE, IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH OR YOU WANT US TO REPHRASE? NO, WE'RE GOOD. YOU HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [A-9 19-8209 Address/Description: 1009 AVENUE B HDRC Case No.: 2019-598 RIO District: RIO-2 Applicant: Jeremy Bateman/Imbimbo Architecture + Development Request: Site modifications, installation of shipping containers and development of a food truck park City Council Dist.: 1] A NINE H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 5 98 10 0 9 AVENUE B. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE PERFORM SITE WORK, INCLUDING THE INTRODUCTION OF PERVIOUS PAVEMENT PLANNING BEDS, IMPERVIOUS PARKING PADS FOR FOOD TRUCKS, CONCRETE CURBING A CONCRETE DRIVEWAY, APRON, AND SUNSHADES TWO TO CONSTRUCT VARIOUS SITE SPECIFIC ELEMENTS INCLUDING A PATIO DECK AND OUTDOOR COOLER AND SHIPPING CONTAINERS FOR AN OUTDOOR BAR AND STORAGE. AND THREE, TO INSTALL METAL FENCES AND GATES ON SITE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH THREE BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH N STAFF FINDS THE PROPOSED INSTALLATION OF SHIPPING CONTAINERS AS WELL AS THE PROPOSED INSTALLATION OF STORAGE AND SERVICE EQUIPMENT ON SITE THAT IS NOT BUFFERED, IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE UUD. C STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT DEVELOP NEW CONSTRUCTION ON SITE THAT ADDRESSES THE UD C'S NEIGHBORHOOD WIDE SITE AND BUILDING STANDARDS FOR THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE DESIGNED IN A MANNER THAT COMPLIMENTS BOTH THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER WALK AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IF SHIPPING CONTAINERS ARE INSTALLED, THEY SHOULD FEATURE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS AND MATERIALS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE U D C. THE PROJECT SHALL COMPLY WITH ALL FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL LAWS, RULES AND REGULATIONS REGARDING ARCHEOLOGY, UH, JEREMY BATEMAN WITH IN BIMBO ARCHITECTURE AND DEVELOPMENT. UM, SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE ON THE [01:10:01] SITE. AND THEN WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, UH, AS FAR AS THE COMMENTS ABOUT BUFFERING THE COOLER AND SOME OF THE OUTDOOR EQUIPMENT FROM THE, UH, WITHIN THE U D C BUFFERING THAT FROM KIND OF THE SEATING AREA WE PROPOSE, WE PROPOSED SOME MINOR CHANGES AS FAR AS SCREEN WORK THAT I'VE DEVELOPED HERE, YOU CAN SEE THAT'LL COVER THAT EQUIPMENT SEEN ON THE PLANS OVER IN, UH, THE C ONE. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE C ONE AREA THERE, YOU CAN SEE THE OUTDOOR COOLER AND THE, UM, ICE MACHINE. SO WE, WE OFFER SOME SCREENING FOR THAT TO MEET THAT. THERE WE GO. SO ESSENTIALLY THAT WOULD JUST BE A, UH, NOT A, A GATE THAT WOULD CLOSE OVER THOSE, THOSE PIECES OF EQUIPMENT, UH, AND BE ABLE TO LOCK, LOCK DOWN AS WELL BE ABLE TO KNOCK DOWN FOR A D A AS WELL FOR, OR FIRE SAFETY. UM, AS FAR AS, UH, THE DESIGN MEETING THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITHIN 150 FEET, YOU CAN SEE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF VERY SIMILAR DESIGN TO WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. UH, THERE ARE THREE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN STANDING THERE FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS OR MORE WITHIN, YOU KNOW, THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS IN WHICH I'VE BROUGHT ABOARD TO PRESENT WHAT THEY'VE DONE AS WELL. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT HERE IS OUR PROPOSED PROPERTY RIGHT HERE AND WHAT WE'RE OFFERING TO PRESENT THERE. UH, THE GOAL IS, YOU KNOW, KIND OF, UH, THE LUXURY MEETS THE FRIENDLY SPOT MEETS A GARDEN OASIS. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S ALL ABOUT PEDESTRIAN WALKING AND BRINGING GOOD FOOD AND A GOOD ATMOSPHERE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR A FA OR FAMILY FRIENDLY ATMOSPHERE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING THERE. WE'RE PROPOSING VERY LITTLE SIGHT WORK. EVERYTHING, UH, IS TO REMAIN PERVIOUS COVER TO MEET, UH, LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT NEEDS. UH, THAT BEING SAID, WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY HAVING ANY ACCESS TO THE RIVERWALK. I'VE BEEN IN DISCUSSIONS WITH SAN ANTONIO RIVER AUTHORITY AS FAR AS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO DO THAT, AND WHERE OUR PROPERTY JUST DOESN'T ALLOW FOR US TO REALLY HAVE ANY ACCESS OR ANY, ANY SIGHT LINES TO THE RIVER WALK ITSELF. IT'S CLOSE IN PROXIMITY AND A CORNER OF THE PROPERTY. UM, THE TOP LEFT HAND CORNER IS RIGHT THERE, BUT IT, IT, IT BARELY TOUCHES AND IT'S NOT REALLY FEASIBLE TO BUILD ENTRANCE THERE. UH, THE PROPERTY THAT YOU SEE RIGHT THERE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT VACANT LOT, VENTURA RIGHT HERE YOU CAN SEE IS JUST A PLYWOOD FRONT FACE BUILDING WITH LOTS OF GRAFFITI ON IT. UM, GREAT ARTWORK, BUT AS FAR AS THE BUILDING'S CONCERNED, IT'S JUST PLYWOOD. THE NEXT ONE OVER AVENUE B LOFTS, THE ENTIRE BUILDING IS CORRUGATED METAL. UH, AGAIN, SHOW THE, THE DESIGN PRECEDENTS ALREADY BEING IN THE AREA. AND THEN THE FUR, YOU KNOW, RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER DOWN IS THE LUXURY. I'M SURE EVERYBODY'S VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE LUXURY. IT'S KIND OF A STAPLE IN SAN ANTONIO. IT'S BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME. AND IT IS, AGAIN, SHIPPING CONTAINERS. UH, THEY AND THEIR SWIMMING CONTAINERS ARE JUST PLAIN PAINTED GREEN, RIGHT? WHAT WE'RE OFFERING TO DO AND WHAT THE OWNER HERE, RICKY COURT, RICKY PROPOSING IS THAT, UH, WE INVITE LOCAL ARTISTS THAT ARE UP AND COMING IN THEIR, IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS TO ESSENTIALLY REPAINT BOTH THE STORAGE CONTAINER AND THE FRONT FACADE OF THE SHIPPING CONTAINER. YOU KNOW, UH, ONCE A QUARTER TO EVERY TWO YEARS BASED ON SOMETHING THAT IS FAMILY FRIENDLY HAS, UH, WITHIN TASTE OF THE SAN ANTONIO CULTURE. BUT THE IDEA IS THAT IT'S A CONSTANTLY EVOLVING OUR ARTIST INSPIRED FACADE. UH, THE, THE PLYWOOD SCREENING FOR THE RESTROOMS IS TO BE MOUNTED IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT CAN BE REMOVED EVERY THREE MONTHS OR EVEN LESS, OR EVEN MORE IF NEEDED. AND THAT THE ARTISTS WILL PAINT ON THOSE SCREENS AND THEN THEY'LL BE ABLE TO BE EITHER GIFTED OR AUCTIONED OFF FOR EVENTS. UH, AND AGAIN, SO THE PLYWOOD SCREENING IS NOT MEANT TO, MEANT TO BE A, IT IS MEANT TO BE PERMANENT, A FIXTURE, BUT TO BE A CONSTANTLY EVOLVING FIXTURE. AND AGAIN, ARTISTS WILL COME IN THERE, EXPRESS THEIR, THEIR ART ON THERE, AND THEN THOSE SCREENS CAN BE UNBOLTED AND NEW ONES CAN BE PUT IN THEIR PLACE. THAT'S WHY WE WENT WITH AN INEXPENSIVE MATERIAL LIKE PLYWOOD, WHICH I UNDERSTAND IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WERE FLAGGED FOR U D C 'CAUSE IT'S NOT A APPROVED MATERIAL. BUT DOING SOMETHING INEXPENSIVE LIKE THAT ALLOWS US TO HAVE SUCH A SYSTEM. WE DO HAVE A SYSTEM TO BE HEARD. WE REALLY DO THIS TIME. MARY MEDFORD, MARY MEDFORD, UH, FOR THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONCURS WHAT THE O H P STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS CONCERNING THIS PROPOSED FOOD TRUCK VENUE [01:15:01] DEVELOPMENT OF THIS SITE SHOULD MEET THE BUILDING STANDARDS FOR THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY AND BE DESIGNED TO COMPLIMENT BOTH THE SAN ANTONIO RIVERWALK AND THE RIVER NORTH NEIGHBORHOOD. THE IMPERMANENT AND CLUTTERED IMPRESSION THAT SHIPPING CONTAINERS AND FOOD TRUCK STATIONS CONVEY IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR SUCH A PROMINENT RIVERFRONT SITE. THANK YOU. UH, MY RESPONSE TO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH, UH, THE CITY AND WE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A, WE DID A PRE-PLANNED REVIEW MEETING VERY EARLY ON TO MAKE SURE WE WEREN'T GONNA HIT ANY WALLS LIKE THIS. WE'VE ALSO HAD MEETINGS WITH COUNCIL MEMBER TREVINO, AND HE HAS SEEN THE PLANS AND HE IS IN FULL SUPPORT AND, UH, BELIEVES THAT THIS IS GOOD FOR HIS DISTRICT AS WELL. UM, THERE'S NOT MANY OPTIONS FOR, FOR INEXPENSIVE GOOD LOCAL CUISINE IN THE AREA. THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR GOOD LOCAL CUISINE, BUT INEXPENSIVE BEING THE KEY TERM THERE. UH, A LOT OF THE RESTAURANTS WITHIN WALKING JUST THIS PLACE, YOU KNOW, NEED A, YOU KNOW, THEIR HIGHER END ON THE PRICE SCALE. THAT BEING SAID, THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO OFFER HERE IS, IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE'S SAYING IT DOESN'T DO IS IS BRING SOMETHING TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE FEEL IS NEEDED AND THAT I BUT THE COUNCIL MEMBER IN THE CITY, BASED ON OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS, HAVE AGREED WITH US THAT IS NEEDED. SO WE'RE HERE TO, UM, BELIEVE WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THE U D C GUIDELINES. AND SO I AM, I'M, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A DENIAL, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE, UM, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH AND I THINK IT'S STILL MISSING A LOT. THAT CAN BE, IT CAN BE WORKED AND I THINK WE CAN COME TO A COMPROMISE. UM, THIS HAS NOT BEEN TO D R C, RIGHT? THIS HASN'T BEEN TO THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT 'CAUSE GOING THROUGH THEM RIGHT? RIGHT NOW, ACTUALLY, AS WE, SO D R C IS A SUBCOMMITTEE OF OURS WHERE WE OH, OKAY. CAN TALK INFORMALLY AND MUCH MORE ABOUT DESIGN DETAILS, BUT, SO WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, KIND OF SPEND TIME ON THAT RIGHT HERE AT THIS HEARING. UM, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO READ THE GUIDELINES IN RIVER LA AND SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO TO THE PROPERTY. BUFFERING DOESN'T MEAN LIKE HIDING OR PUTTING UP ANOTHER METAL OR SOMETHING LIKE VERY, ALL THESE PROPERTIES THAT YOU SHOWED HAVE BUFFERING LIKE THE PLANTING OR SOMETHING THAT KIND OF LIKE THE LUXURY HAS A SHIPPING CONTAINER UP AGAINST THE SIDEWALK THAT IS VERY EXPOSED AND WITH PLUMBING OUTLETS COMING OUT AT THE STREET. SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT THESE ARE SOME OF THE CONCEPTS. I THINK YOU SHOULD GO REVISE THE GO SEE THE LUXURY AGAIN. IT IS BUFFERED WITH PLANTS AND TREES AND IT'S SPREAD OUT. I THINK YOU CAN TAKE PIECES OF ALL THOSE, UH, PROPERTIES THAT YOU ACTUALLY MENTIONED AND BRING THEM. BUT I DO FEEL LIKE THIS, UM, I WOULD MOVE THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE SECOND, IF THAT'S A MOTION. MOTION TO MOVE TO D R C. MOTION IS SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [A-10 19-8273 Address/Description: 1418 SE MILITARY DR HDRC Case No.: 2019-661 Historic District Name: Mission Applicant: Bruce Ahlswede/SAR Sign Service Request: Signage City Council Dist.: 3] 18 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 61 14 18 SOUTHEAST MILITARY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE INSTALL INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED WALL SIGN TO READ ENTERPRISE TO FEATURE 15 FEET IN LENGTH AND THREE FEET IN HEIGHT FOR A TOTAL SIZE OF 45 SQUARE FEET. THE SIGN WILL FEATURE PLASTIC FACES AND TWO, TO INSTALL A NON ILLUMINATED WALL SIGN. READ ENTERPRISE TO FEATURE 15 FEET IN LENGTH AND THREE FEET IN HEIGHT FOR A TOTAL OF 45 SQUARE FEET. THE SIGN WILL, WILL FEATURE ALUMINUM CONSTRUCTION. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE AND TWO BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH D WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE PROPOSED SIGNAGE BE NON ILLUMINATED AND FEATURE METAL FACES THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. UM, BRUCE SALT WEED SIGN SERVICE. UH, ADDRESS 63 31 LES HARRISON. UM, I'M REPRESENTING MY CLIENT ENTERPRISE. UM, A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THIS. A COUPLE MONTHS AGO WE CAME TO YOU ASKING FOR ANOTHER SIGN ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING. UH, IT WAS DENIED THROUGH YOUR COMMITTEE. AND SO WE, WHEN WE CANCELED THE PERMIT, WE, IT WAS FOUND THAT THEY COULDN'T FIND THE ORIGINAL PERMITS FOR THE SIGNAGE. IN DOING SO, WE LOOKED, ENTERPRISE LOOKED, EVERYBODY'S LOOKING FOR THAT ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS, CANNOT FIND IT. UH, SO WHAT WE DID WAS APPLY FOR ANOTHER PERMIT FOR THE SIGNAGE THAT IT'S ON THE BUILDING RIGHT NOW. UM, AND SO [01:20:02] OUR, OUR ARGUMENT IS THAT WE, IT'S BEEN UP THERE FOR 13 YEARS. YOU'RE ASKING US TO CHANGE IT NOW THAT IT'S BEEN UP THERE FOR 13 YEARS. SIGNAGE IN THE AREA'S, UM, A LOT BRIGHTER THAN IT IS. UM, IT WOULD CHANGE THE STANDARD OF THE ENTERPRISE, THE ENTERPRISE, UM, DESIGN. SO, UM, UH, STAFF FOR STAFF 13 YEARS AGO, WHAT, WHAT WERE THE RULES? R WOULD'VE BEEN IN PLACE HERE. SO WE SAW THIS CASE A WHILE BACK. SO, UM, THE STAFF IS ACTUALLY RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE SIGNAGE AS YOU HAVE, UH, APPLIED TO. AND IT'S JUST NOT, UM, RECOMMENDING INTERNAL ILLUMINATION. I THINK THAT YOU CAN INDIRECTLY ILLUMINATE THE SIGN VERY WELL. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD BE OKAY WITH? THAT WOULD NOT BE BRAND STANDARD. THAT WOULD BE NOT WHAT? THAT WOULD NOT BE BRAND STANDARD. BRAND STANDARD IS INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED. SO OTHER SIGNS IN THE AREA ARE ALL INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED. THERE'S NOTHING INDIRECTLY ILLUMINATED DOWN THE STREET, BOTH SIDES. AND, AND PART OF THE DISCUSSION THAT WE HAD LAST TIME WAS THAT, UM, YOU WERE SAYING THAT THIS SIGNAGE NEEDED TO BE ILLUMINATED BECAUSE IT WANTED IT, YOU NEEDED THAT TO BE VISIBLE. UM, SO RIGHT NOW YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A SIGN THAT'S NOT ILLUMINATED IN ONE. THERE IS CORRECT. THAT IT'S BEEN UP THERE FOR 13 YEARS. AND STAFF, CORRECT ME, YOU'RE ACTUALLY RECOMMENDING IN INDIRECT ELIMINATION FOR BOTH SIGNS, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. UM, THAT THE APP, THE PROPOSAL INCLUDES NEARLY DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF SIGNAGE THAT THE GUIDELINES RECOMMEND. STAFF FINDS THAT DUE TO THE DISTANCE FROM THE RIGHT OF WEIGHT THAT MAY BE APPROPRIATE. UM, BUT THAT NON-DIRECT ILLUMINATION WOULD, UM, ACCOUNT FOR THE INCREASE IN SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND THAT WAS GONNA BE MY SIX. SORRY, WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS, WOULD YOU COMPROMISE AND SAY IF WE DO AN ILLUMINATED SIGNAGE, NOT HAVE TWO SIGNS? I ASK BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND BRAND GUIDELINES AND I KNOW WHY THAT IS IMPORTANT AND YOU CANNOT DEVIATE FROM THAT. UH, MY NAME IS STEVEN VEGAR AND I'M THE ENTERPRISE RENTAL CARD PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT. AND SO YEAH, IN INTERIOR ELIMINATED IS THE WAY THAT OUR BRAND STANDARD IS. UM, WE'VE HAD BOTH SONS UP THERE SINCE I WAS SIX WHEN WE BUILT THE BUILDING. UM, SO, AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE, THE RECORD KEEPING KIND OF FELL, FELL APART THERE. BUT AS FAR AS BUILDINGS ACROSS THE STREET, THERE'S A BANK ACROSS THE STREET THAT WE HAVE AND THEY'RE ILLUMINATED. THEY HAVE A, THEY HAVE A BIG GLOW ON 'EM. UH, SO I DON'T, I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW WE'RE ANY KIND OF A AND STAFF CLARIFY SECURITY SERVICES AT, WELL, I THINK WE APPROVED IT WAS INDIRECT LIGHTNING. I'M, I CAN'T RECALL WHAT THEY HAVE OR WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE. WOULD, WOULD, WOULD THE SIGN SIGNAGE HAVE GONE BEFORE? IF IT, IF IT WAS A NEW BUILDING WHEN THE SIGNAGE WENT UP, WOULD THE SIGNAGE HAVE GONE BEFORE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OR WHO, WHATEVER THEY WERE CALLED AT THE TIME? UH, IT WOULD HAVE, UM, THERE'S NO PERMIT ON RECORD THROUGH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND THERE'S NO CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS THAT STAFF CAN FIND. UM, BUT, BUT EVEN WITH THE BUILDING NOTES, THE APPROVAL IS THERE, ARE THERE BUILDING, UH, CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS ON, UH, OR A PERMIT FOR THE BUILDING ON FILE? THAT I CAN'T CLARIFY? I I WAS ONLY RESEARCHING SIGNAGE APPROVALS. SO HERE'S ALSO THE QUESTION IN MY, UH, WHAT ARE YOUR HOURS? WE OPEN AT SEVEN 30 IN THE MORNING AND WE'RE OPEN UNTIL SIX 30 AT NIGHT AND YOU WOULD KEEP THOSE LIGHTS ON ALL NIGHT? YEAH, THE LIGHTS WOULD BE ELIMINATED FOR THE STOREFRONT THAT WE HAVE NOW FACING THE STREET, THE MAIN SIGN, THE PRIMARY SIGNAGE IS ELIMINATED DURING THAT ALL NIGHT AS THESE NEIGHBORS ARE AS WELL. YEAH. SO THESE NEIGHBORS ARE ACTUALLY, UM, MORE DESTINATIONS THAT YOU PROBABLY, UM, WOULD NEED A G P S TO GO FIND. I AS, UM, I'M ASSUMING, AND I THINK THAT WAS DISCUSSED LAST TIME, YOUR BUSINESS DEPENDS ON THE DEALERSHIP NEXT DOOR OR THE REPAIR SHOP, AUTO SHOP NEXT DOOR. NO, VERY LITTLE BUSINESS COMES FROM. I, I WILL NOTE, UM, THE ONE THING THAT'S SPECIFIC TO EACH OF THESE THREE EXAMPLES THAT ARE, THAT THEY'RE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTERS, WHEREAS THE APPLICANTS PROPOSE AN INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CABINET. UM, IF THE APPLICANT WANTED TO PROPOSE A CABINET THAT WAS NOT ILLUMINATED, THAT ONLY HAD THE LETTERS ILLUMINATED, UM, THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE SOMETHING THAT STAFF COULD SUPPORT, UM, THAT, THAT WOULD BE GENERALLY CONSISTENT WITH RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE'VE OFFERED IN THE PAST. YEAH, I THINK TO ME THE DIFFERENCE IS, IS REALLY THE AMOUNT OF LIGHTING THAT YOU'RE ASKING TO INCREASE HERE FROM WHAT YOU HAVE TO THE NEW. SO [01:25:01] I THINK THERE ARE SOME COMPROMISES THAT CAN BE MADE HERE. AS FAR AS THE CHANNEL LETTER SUGGESTION THAT WAS JUST MADE OR WITH BOTH SIGNS BEING BACKLIT. I MEAN THERE, THERE'S SOME COMPROMISES THERE. I KNOW THAT YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN YOUR BRAND STANDARD, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THIS IS ADDITIONAL MARKETING, UH, BILLBOARD IN A HISTORIC AREA. SO I MEAN THERE, THERE ARE COMPROMISES THAT WILL HAVE TO BE MADE, ESPECIALLY FOR SOMETHING THAT WASN'T PERMITTED OR THAT IS NOT ON RECORD. I THINK THE APPLICANTS ESSENTIALLY NOTED THAT THEY COULD DO A BACKER PANEL THAT'S NOT ILLUMINATED AND THEN HAVE ENTERPRISE AND CHANNEL LETTERS THAT WERE, UM, AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT STAFF COULD, COULD WORK WITH THE APPLICANT WITH. SO I, I MOVE FOR, UM, THE APPLICANT TO WORK WITH STAFF, UH, TO DEVELOP THIS, UH, INTERNALLY AND UH, THAT THAT'LL BE HANDLED THROUGH STAFF. SECOND. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. UM, WE'RE READY TO MOVE ON TO B ITEMS UNLESS WE WANNA TAKE A QUICK BREAK. UH, LET'S TAKE A QUICK ORDER, THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR THE, UM, ITEM UNDER THE B AGENDA. YEAH. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT, UM, REGARDING TRANSLATION SERVICES, WHICH IS A VIDEO WE'RE GONNA PLAY. UM, THANK YOU. UM, QUICKLY, I ALSO WANNA WELCOME NEW COMMISSIONERS, UM, JANELLE GIBBS FOR DISTRICT TWO AND UM, AL AREOLA WHO IS ON HIS BREAK STILL REPRESENTING DISTRICT FOUR. UM, WELCOME TO THE COMMISSION. UM, ARE YOU GONNA READ THE CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT? THANK YOU. THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS A FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICANTS APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. AND CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIRE GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUB PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF A REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU WILL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 20 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL THREE MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR THREE MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER'S CALLED UPON SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY'RE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHIN A WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY UM, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL ITEMS AND SO WE CAN DIRECT OUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. UM, WE HAVE CONSENT ['B' ITEMS CONSENT AGENDA] ITEMS B ONE THROUGH B 22. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY SPEAKERS ON THOSE ITEMS. WE DO HAVE RECUSALS FROM COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. SO HE IS GOING TO, UM, STEP OUT OF THE ROOM WHILE WE TAKE ACTION. ON THE CONSENT AGENDA, I'D LIKE TO MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE B CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS B ONE THROUGH B 22. SECOND [01:30:03] CLARIFICATION. DOES THAT INCLUDE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS? OH, SORRY, YES, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. MY MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR, IF YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS THREE 14 WEST ELSMERE 1910 EAST HOUSTON, 4 21 SPOFFORD 8 25 DAWSON FOR BOTH TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. 1 6 1 16 EAST AGARITA 1 38 SOUTH JOSEPHINE TOBIN 2 0 5 WEST SUMMIT FOR CER CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION TWO 19 ADAMS 3 24 LEE 3 35 NORTH 9 0 5 EAST GUNTHER 2 23 LAUREL HEIGHTS, 2 21 MUNCIE 9 0 6 BURLESON 4 28 EAST MYRTLE 4 1 4 DONALDSON FOR BOTH TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. 32 22 SHIMMERING DAWN FOUR 15 NORTH MESQUITE AND 1126 EAST CROCKETT. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS MEETING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RETURNED THE PUBLIC NOTICE YARD SIGN ON YOUR PROPERTY, PLEASE RETRIEVE THAT SIGN AND RETURN IT TO THE O H P COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. UM, BEFORE WE PROCEED, I JUST GET A QUICK CHANGE TO THE ORDER. UM, ITEM [B-36 19-8333 Address/Description: 803 BURLESON ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-646 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Kristy Dakin Request: Historic Tax Certification, Door replacement, porch deck installation City Council Dist.: 2] B 36 8 0 3 BURLESON, UM, WAS SCHEDULED FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION. THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO STAFF STIPULATIONS. UM, SO WE'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THAT ITEM BEFORE PROCEEDING A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM B 36 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES AND WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH B 23. YEAH. AGENDA ITEM [B-23 19-8153 Address/Description: 335 TRAILHDRC Case No.: 2019-641Historic District Name: River RoadRIO District: RIO-1Applicant: Mark Odom/Mark Odom StudioRequest: Construction of a multi-family residential developmentCity Council Dist.: 1] B 23 H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 41 3 35 TRAIL. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A MULTI-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE VACANT LOT LOCATED AT 3 35 TRAIL. THE PROPERTY FEATURES LOTS THAT ARE LOCATED WITHIN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY ONLY, AS WELL AS THOSE THAT ARE LOCATED WITHIN BOTH THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY AND THE RIVER ROAD HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED FOR THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES TO FEATURE TWO AND THREE STORIES IN HEIGHT. ACCESS TO THE SITE WILL BE PROVIDED FROM TRAIL STREET AND ATCH STREET. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING Q, WHICH NOTES THE INCLUSION OF STREET FACING, FRONT LOADED GARAGE DOORS AND ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT THAT IS NOT PRESENT WITHIN THE RIVER ROAD. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF FINDS THAT THIS DETAIL STAFF FINDS THIS DETAIL TO BE INAPPROPRIATE AND INCONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. THE H D R C FINDS IS SUBMITTED, DESIGNED TO BE APPROPRIATE. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS THAT STAFF HAS ADDED. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO MEET THESE STIPULATIONS. UM, THERE HAS BEEN AN UPDATED STIPULATION THAT HAS BEEN ADDED, AND I WILL READ THAT ONE, THAT THE APPLICANT ADDED ADDITIONAL ONSITE RAINWATER CATCHMENT SYSTEMS OR CISTERNS TO COLLECT WATER FROM BUILDING FIVE TO PROVIDE DRAINAGE RELIEF TO TRAIL STREET. INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE. HOWDY. YES. MY NAME IS DAVID MORIN. UH, FRANK NAVARRO. WELL, FIRST OFF, I WANNA SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY. I SEE A LOT OF FAMILIAR FACES AND SOME NEW FACES AND, UH, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. SO THIS, THIS PROJECT HAS, UH, KIND OF HAD A LONG HISTORY WITH H G R C. WE'VE BEEN, UH, I THINK THE FIRST TIME WE MET WITH H G R C WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO. UH, WE'VE COME A LONG WAY SINCE THEN. UM, AND JUST WANTED TO KIND OF GIVE AN OVERALL SORT OF HISTORY OF THE PROJECT, UM, FROM CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO FINAL APPROVAL FOR SOME OF THE NEW MEMBERS, AND THEN ALSO KIND OF GO INTO WHAT WE UPDATED BASED ON OUR LAST, UM, HISTORIC DES DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION HEARING. SO THIS IS THE, UH, SITE PLAN WHERE WE RECEIVED, UH, IN JANUARY, 2019. THIS IS OUR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UH, AN UNANIMOUS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH SEVERAL [01:35:01] STAFF STIPULATIONS AND THE COMMISSION ACTION. UM, SAID THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF ITEMS FOUR, FIVE AND SIX NEEDS TO FOLLOW TWO STIPULATIONS SPECIFICALLY, UH, AT LEAST AN 18 FOOT SETBACK BE USED ALONG TRAIL STREET AND THAT A 15 FOOT SETBACK BE USED FROM THE AEIA. SO THERE WAS SOME SENSITIVITY TO THE AEIA AND THERE WAS ALSO SOME, UH, SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT, UM, DRIVEWAYS ALONG TRAIL STREET, MAKING SURE THEY WERE 18 FEET IN LENGTH. SO, GOING FROM THE COMMISSION ACTION, WE THEN, UH, HAD SEVERAL ADDITIONAL DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETINGS AND THEN SOME H D R C HEARING MEETINGS AND THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION MEETINGS, UM, UP UNTIL OUR HEARING WERE, WERE SORT OF ABOUT, YOU KNOW, AESTHETICS TO THE PROJECT, LIKE EAVES OF THE ROOFS AND HOW DO WE INCORPORATE BALCONY OR HOW DO WE INCORPORATE PORCHES THAT KIND OF INTEGRATE INTO THE DESIGN AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THEN, UM, A CONCERN CAME UP ON OUR STORMWATER DRAINAGE PLAN, AND THAT WAS KIND OF THE BIG CONCERN IN H D R C HEARING NUMBER ONE. THIS IS JUST KIND OF THE HISTORY OF, OF KIND OF ALL THAT WE'VE GONE THROUGH IN TERMS OF TALKING ABOUT, UM, A LOT OF ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS. AND THEN THIS IS OUR PREVIOUS H D R C APPLICATION SITE PLAN. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE ARE TWO AREAS IN HERE, UM, THAT SHOWCASE DETENTION PONDS. AND SO WE HAD TO DO, WE WERE KINDA WORKING BETWEEN A COUPLE OF OPTIONS, UH, WITH OUR STORMWATER PLAN. IT WASN'T, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WERE KIND OF WORKING WITH THE CITY ON IT, KIND OF SUBMITTING, TRYING TO SEE WHAT WOULD WORK. AND WE SUBMITTED TWO, TWO OPTIONS KIND OF. ONE WAS WITH A PERMEABLE PAVER SYSTEM AND THE DRIVEWAY THAT WOULD REDUCE KIND OF THE SIZES OF THE PONDS. AND THEN ALSO AN OPTION, KIND OF THE WORST CASE SCENARIO OPTION, WHICH WAS THESE TWO DETENTION PONDS. UM, AND IT WAS SORT OF A, WE KINDA DESCRIBED IT AS A CHICKEN OR THE EGG SITUATION. 'CAUSE WE HAD TO GET, YOU KNOW, WE GET HISTORIC APPROVAL, DO WE GET STORMWATER APPROVAL? HOW DO YOU WORK, HOW DO YOU WORK IT OUT? SO, AND, AND AT THE LAST HEARING, YOU KNOW, WE WERE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, JUST, JUST TO BE CANDID, WE WERE, WE WERE KIND OF CONFUSED BY THE, THE STORMWATER SITUATION AND YOU KNOW, WE, WE WERE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS REALLY KIND OF A QUANDARY FOR US. WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN WE DO, BUT IN, IN RETROSPECT, UM, THE PLAN THAT WE PRESENTED LAST TIME, I, I CAN DEFINITELY SEE HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION'S CONCERN ABOUT THE AESTHETICS OF THESE PONDS AND HOW, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD AFFECT THE AEIA. UM, YOU KNOW, WE SHOWED A DETAIL THAT HA OR A SECTION THAT SHOWED THAT THE MAX HEIGHT OF ONE OF THE PONDS COULD BE UP TO TWO AND A HALF FEET. UM, AND I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT. I WAS LIKE, THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S FOR JUST A STONE WALL. THAT'S KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT COULD BE, I I, I'D BE CONCERNED ABOUT IT. SO THIS IS OUR PREVIOUS ONE OF THE RENDERINGS WE SHOWED IN OUR PREVIOUS H D R C APPLICATION THAT WAS FOCUSING ON STORM WATER. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT'S OUR DETENTION POND, UM, HEIGHT. AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST KIND OF A POND. AND, AND COMMISSIONERS WERE WONDERING, WELL, I, YOU KNOW, IT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND HOW DOES IT INTEGRATE AND IS IT GONNA LOOK OUT OF PLACE? SO IT WAS A REAL CREATIVE, I MEAN, CHALLENGE FOR US. LIKE, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE ADDRESS ALL THESE NEEDS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE STORM WATER GOING AWAY FROM THE AEIA, UM, EXISTING CONDITIONS ON THE SITE. UM, HOW DO WE INTEGRATE A STORM WATER SYSTEM INTO A A, A HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD? YOU CAN SEE THIS IS ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE OR ANOTHER RENDERING OF THE, OF THE DETENTION POND. WE TRIED TO, YOU KNOW, CONCEAL IT WITH LANDSCAPING AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT MATCH SORT OF THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH THE, THE STONE TEXTURE OR KIND OF MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THE, THE BUILDING THAT WE'RE, WE'RE, UH, PRO PROPOSING. AND THESE WERE THE TWO PONDS AND THE HIGHLIGHTED [01:40:01] SECTIONS IF, UH, IF YOU KIND OF ZOOM IN THAT SHOWS THAT THERE'S THAT TWO AND A HALF FOOT MAXIMUM HEIGHT FOR THESE WALLS. SO WE, WE GOT TOGETHER, WE, WE SET UP A MEETING WITH STAFF AND, AND WITH STORMWATER, AND WE, WE PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER AND TRIED TO COME UP WITH A CREATIVE SOLUTION THAT COULD BE A MULTI-PRONGED APPROACH TO SOLVING A LOT OF THESE PROBLEMS. AND IT, IT WAS, IT WAS DIFFICULT TO COME UP WITH. IT TOOK A LOT OF, A LOT OF, UH, A LOT OF THINKING, A LOT OF ENGINEERING. AND WHAT WE'VE COME UP WITH IS A, OUR ENGINEER COULD SPEAK ON ON THE DETAILS OF IT, BUT THE, WE, WE CHANGED THE ELEVATION A LITTLE BIT TO WHERE WE NOW GOT RID OF THE STORMWATER DETENTION POND NEAR THE ASEC, WHICH WAS A CONCERN. UM, WE'VE ADDED SOME CISTERNS, UH, THAT CAN COLLECT RAINWATER FROM THE ROOF. AND I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT WE'VE, WE'VE DONE WITH THIS DETENTION POND, WHICH IS STILL A DETENTION POND, BUT I THINK WE'VE TURNED IT INTO A MULTIFUNCTIONAL AMENITY THAT I THINK REALLY INTEGRATES WITH THE EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE, WE TOOK THE POND AND WE'VE ADDED A FENCE, UH, A, A KIND OF GARDEN LOOP FENCE THAT IN, IN, YOU KNOW, ENCAPSULATES THE POND. WE'VE PUT SOME PLANTERS IN PLACE THAT WILL ALLOW OUR RESIDENTS TO HAVE THEIR VERY OWN COMMUNITY GARDEN. AND THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS IDEA WAS THERE'S A COMMUNITY GARDEN, THE RIVER ROAD COMMUNITY GARDEN'S ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY. UM, SO NOW OUR RESIDENTS WILL BE ABLE TO HAVE NOT ONLY THEIR OWN GARDEN, THEY CAN SHARE WITH THE RIVER ROAD RESIDENTS. THEY CAN ALL, IT KIND OF INTEGRATES WITH THE EXISTING COMMUNITY GARDEN, KIND OF THAT RUSTIC, UH, FEEL. AND PART OF THIS WAS WE LOOKED AT, WE LOOKED AT SOME CODE AND WE LOOKED AT WHAT WAS APPROPRIATE FOR A RIO DISTRICT. AND THEY SAID, DESIGN OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED AS A LANDSCAPE AMENITY. UM, WE'RE ABOVE GROUND, STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITIES ARE REQUIRED, SUCH FACILITIES SHALL BE MULTIPURPOSE AMENITIES. SO WE FELT LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, THERE'S NOT A MORE PERFECT THING WE COULD PUT TOGETHER THAN A COMMUNITY GARDEN THAT MATCHES THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE EXISTING GARDEN. IT ALSO ENCOURAGES, YOU KNOW, FOR ANY WALLS OR UH, FENCES AT DETENTION AREAS THAT A GARDEN LOOP IS PERMITTED. AND THAT'S KIND OF THE FENCING STYLE WORKING, WORKING ON. AS YOU CAN SEE, THE TRAIL TRAIL STREET TOWN HOME COMMUNITY GARDEN IS NOW DIRECTLY ADJACENT AND ONLY SEPARATED BY OUR, UH, CRUSH GRANITE WALKING TRAIL FROM THE EXISTING RIVER ROAD COMMUNITY GARDEN. THIS IS THE EXISTING RIVER ROAD GARDEN. AND THIS IS KIND OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR OUR, OUR SITE. THIS, THIS IS A SECTION THAT SHOWS THAT THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF THE, UH, DETENTION POND WALLS IS ACTUALLY DECREASED TO TOOTH, DECREASED TO TWO FEET. AND THAT'S NOT INCLUDING THE FENCE THAT'LL SORT OF CONCEAL THE ENTIRE, UH, ENTIRE WALL. AND THIS IS FROM OUR CIVIL ENGINEER, THIS IS FROM OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT. IT KIND OF DETAILS OUT THE PLANTERS, UM, KIND OF WHAT WE'RE THINKING IN TERMS OF THE FENCE. ANOTHER, ANOTHER, UM, SOME SECTIONS FROM OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, THEY CAN SPEAK MORE, MORE TO IT. UM, AND THEN ALSO ACROSS THE STREET IS WE SAT ACROSS, WE SAT, WHICH IS DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THIS COMMUNITY GARDEN. UM, THERE'S ALSO AN ADJACENT FENCE, UM, THAT LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN OURS, BUT IT, WE KIND OF FEEL LIKE WE'RE SORT OF IN BETWEEN THE RIVER ROAD FENCE AND THE ONE THAT'S RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. THESE ARE THE CISTERNS RIGHT NOW WE'RE, UM, STILL PICKING OUT A SPECIFIC [01:45:01] CISTERN, BUT WHAT WE'RE VERY LIKELY GOING TO DO IS HAVE TWO, UH, GALVANIZED STEEL OVER THERE NEAR THE YEC. AND THEN NEXT TO OUR POOL AREA, WE'LL HAVE SOME GREEN, UH, GREEN CISTERNS THAT ARE CONCEALED BY, UM, HANGING VINES OR, UM, OTHER LANDSCAPING FEATURES. YOU KNOW, STAFF MENTIONED THAT THERE WAS AN EXTRA STIPULATION ON AN ADDITIONAL CISTERN TO HELP, UH, DRAIN STORMWATER FROM BUILDING FIVE. AND, UM, WE'RE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH THAT. UH, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, TOTALLY FINE WITH ADDING AN ADDITIONAL CISTERN. ANOTHER THING TO NOTE ABOUT THESE CISTERNS IS THAT THEY WILL NOT BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, SO IT'LL ONLY KIND OF BE AN INTERNAL FEATURE TO THE PROPERTY. YOU'LL BE ABLE TO KIND OF WALK THROUGH, KIND OF GET A GARDEN, RAINWATER HARVESTING FEEL. THESE ARE JUST SOME EXAMPLES OF CISTERNS AND HOW, YOU KNOW, I I REALLY IN PARTICULAR, LIKE THE ONE ON THE UPPER RIGHT, IT KIND OF SHOWS HOW IT KIND OF BLENDS IN WITH THIS RUSTIC FEEL OF THE COMMUNITY. OUR ENGINEER CAN SPEAK TO THIS MORE, BUT, UM, ONE OF THE CONCERNS WAS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THIS, THIS SITE THAT IS, UH, EXISTING CONDITIONS TO THE SITE HAD STORM WATER DRAINING TO THE AEIA AND TRAIL STREET. AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S, WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, OKAY, WELL WE'RE NOT GONNA INCREASE THE FLOW TO EITHER OF THESE TWO SECTIONS, UM, BUT THEN WHAT CAN WE DO TO ACTUALLY DECREASE? AND SO YOU CAN SEE THESE TWO PLANS. THIS IS THE EXISTING RUNOFF AREAS, THESE WILL BE THE PROPOSED RUNOFF AREAS. AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S VERY, VERY LITTLE RUNOFF TO BOTH TRAIL STREET AND THE AEIA. OH, AND THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I HAVE ACTUALLY. COULD WE SHOW THE, UM, THE, UH, OTHER PRESENTATION? THIS IS WHAT WE PUT TOGETHER, KIND OF WHAT I JUST SHOWED WAS SORT OF A HISTORY, UM, JUST TO GET EVERYBODY ON THE SAME PAGE OF THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT. UM, THIS IS WHAT OUR ARCHITECT AND LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND ENGINEER HAVE PUT TOGETHER TO SHOW KIND OF THE NEW IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PLAN THAT WE'VE KIND OF GONE THROUGH ALREADY. BUT I'LL, I'LL RUN THROUGH IT AGAIN. THIS IS THE SITE. SO THERE'S A SECTION OF THE SITE THAT'S IN THE RIO ONE DISTRICT. IT'S A MULTIFAMILY 33 SITE AND SURROUNDED BY, UM, MULTIFAMILY 33 PROPERTIES ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, ZONED PROPERTIES. UM, THIS IS THE SITE PLAN. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S THE CISTERNS AND THE DETENTION POND. THIS IS OUR, UM, THESE ARE OUR ELEVATIONS. AND JUST TO GO BACK THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT, WHEN WE FIRST MADE THIS PROPOSAL TO H D R C, WE HAD AN EXTREMELY, I WOULD SAY, MUCH MORE MODERN LOOKING DESIGN. THE DESIGN WAS VERY UNIFORM, SO THE ROOFTOPS, IT WAS KIND OF ALL A-FRAME. NEXT ONE AFTER THE OTHER, NEXT TO EACH OTHER. AND THE BIG CONCERN WAS THAT LOOKS, THAT LOOKS TOO BIG, IT LOOKS, IT LOOKS LIKE TOO MUCH. AND SO WHAT WE DID IS WE VARIED THE ROOF LINES. AND SO WE HAVE KIND OF THIS UNDULATING ROOF WHERE YOU'LL HAVE A, A-FRAME, A-FRAME, AND THEN A SLOPED ROOF, A-FRAME, SLOPED ROOF. ALL OF THE BUILDINGS ACTUALLY ARE UNIQUE, UH, IN ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN. SO THEY ALL ARE UNIQUE. THEY'RE NOT, NO, NO BUILDING IS THE SAME. AND, UH, AND THEN WE BROKE THE BUILDINGS UP INTO SIX DIFFERENT BUILDINGS, UM, EACH ONE HAVING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF UNITS. WE WERE ASKED TO ADD SOME PORCH ELEMENTS, AND THIS WAS FROM A PREVIOUS, UH, PRESENTATION, BUT WE'VE SHOWN KIND OF HOW WE INTEGRATED THE PORCH ELEMENTS. AND THEN THIS IS THE VIEW FROM WE SAT STREET. YOU CAN SEE IT'S KIND OF A UNIQUE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN AND DIFFERENT ROOF LINES. IT SORT OF BREAKS UP THE BUILDINGS. THIS IS OUR KIND OF COMMON AREA, OUR GREEN SPACE THAT'S GONNA BE IN BETWEEN, UM, THE [01:50:01] BUILDINGS THAT ARE ON TRAIL STREET AND THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE IN THE INTERIOR OF THE SITE PLAN. AND THEN BACK TO OUR COMMUNITY GARDEN. WE ACTUALLY, UM, UPDATED THIS PRESENTATION TO SHOW THE ADDITIONAL CISTERN THAT WAS, UH, ASKED FOR OVER ON, UH, RIGHT THERE NEXT TO BUILDING FIVE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. WE DO HAVE CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. I DO. UH, MARY MEDFORD, EVERYONE WHO'S SPEAKING, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS INTO THE MICROPHONE FOR THE RECORD. MARY MEDFORD, I'M SPEAKING FOR THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO REGARDING THE DEVELOPMENT AT 3 35 TRAIL. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO SUPPORTS THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION THAT THE STREET FACE FACING FRONT LOADED GARAGE DOORS NOT BE APPROVED AS THEY ARE OUT OF CHARACTER. WITH THE DESIGN OF THE RIVER ROAD HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY FURTHER SUPPORTS THE SEVERAL STIPULATIONS THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS AGREED TO IN ORDER TO OBTAIN FINAL DESIGN APPROVAL, ESPECIALLY THE STIPULATIONS REGARDING PROTECTION OF THE ASAKIA. THANK YOU. RALEIGH WOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME'S RALEIGH WOOD. I LIVE AT 1 0 9 GLENDALE IN THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD. BEEN A RESIDENT THERE FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS. AND, UH, I KNOW THERE'S SOME NEW MEMBERS ON THE COMMISSION THAT WEREN'T HERE FOUR WEEKS AGO WHEN THIS PROJECT WAS BEFORE THIS COMMISSION AGAIN FOR FINAL APPROVAL. AT THAT TIME, THE PROJECT WAS DENIED FINAL APPROVAL, AND I HAD AT THAT TIME, CITY STAFF INFORMED COMMISSIONERS THAT FOR THE APPLICANT TO COME BACK, THE APPLICANT WOULD NEED TO HAVE A NEW, A NEW PROPOSAL IN ORDER TO PRESENT AGAIN. AND I, AND I THINK A LOT OF THE NEIGHBORS WERE HOPEFUL THAT OVER A PERIOD OF TIME THAT MAYBE THE APPLICANT WOULD GET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE COULD DISCUSS SOME ISSUES THAT WE HAD WITH THE PROJECT TO RESOLVE THEM. AND, UH, THERE WOULD BE SOME CHANGES BEFORE THE PRESENTATION CAME BACK AGAIN TODAY, I, I, THE APPLICANT HAS DONE SOME CHANGES ON DRAINAGE, SOME WORK ON DRAINAGE, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T SEE ANY REAL SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES WITH THE PROJECT TODAY. THAT'S, UH, WAS DENIED FINAL APPROVAL FOUR WEEKS AGO. AND HISTORICALLY, THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S MAJOR CONCERNS HAVE BEEN DRAINAGE. AND THE ISSUE THERE IS THAT THE LABORA SEIA IS ADJACENT TO THE PROPERTY AND THE PROPERTY WOULD BE DRAINING INTO THE LABOR BO AS SEIA. OTHER ISSUES HAVE BEEN THE DENSITY AND THE DESIGN, WHICH I, I BELIEVE SOME OF THE OTHER NEIGHBORS WILL ADDRESS. AND THE ISSUE, ANOTHER ISSUE HAS BEEN HYPED AND THAT ON TRAIL STREET THERE ARE TWO BUILDINGS THERE AND THE HEIGHT OF A MAJORITY OF THOSE BUILDINGS IS THREE. STORY. RIVER ROAD IS A ONE STORY HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, HISTORIC GUIDELINES EIGHT. THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT BE MORE THAN ONE STORY MORE THAN THE EXISTING MAJORITY OF THE EXISTING HOUSES IN THE, IN THE DISTRICT. SO WE WERE HOPEFUL THAT THE APPLICANT AT THIS POINT WOULD'VE COME BACK AND AGREED TO LOWER THE HOUSES ALONG TRAIL STREET, WHICH IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT TO TWO STORY. BUT AS I CAN SEE TODAY, THAT HASN'T HAPPENED. APPLICANT ALSO STARTED WITH 24 UNITS ON THIS PROJECT. AGAIN, TODAY THERE'S STILL 24 UNITS. THAT'S THE CONCERN WITH THE DENSITY. UM, BASICALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I WOULD HOPE THAT, UM, IN CONSIDERATION OF THIS PROJECT TODAY THAT YOU WOULD, AGAIN, BECAUSE THERE HAVE NOT BEEN SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES FROM THE LAST PRESENTATION, DENY THE APPLICANT'S, [01:55:01] UH, FINAL APPROVAL AND ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT TO WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO TRY AND REACH AN AGREEABLE SOLUTION. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. LARRY CLARK. MR. CLARK RECEIVES NINE MINUTES. PATRICIA PRATCHETT AND BETH WELLS HAVE YIELDED THEIR TIME. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M LARRY CLARK, 1 0 2 ALLISON, AND I'M ALSO SORRY, ALSO THE STEWARD OF THAT GARDEN. AND, UH, WE STARTED THAT GARDEN IN 2008. WE'RE VERY PROUD OF IT. I WANNA THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME AND THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO BE HEARD TODAY. YOU'VE HEARD FROM US MANY TIMES HERE, UH, ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS PROJECT DOESN'T FIT INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE'D LIKE AGAIN TO ASK YOU FOR, UH, DENIAL OF FINAL APPROVAL. STAFF CONTINUES TO RECOMMEND DENIAL. UH, CONSERVATION RECOMMENDS DENIAL. WE FEEL THIS COMMISSION SHOULD JUST TRUST, UH, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND THE OVERWHELMING, UM, NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, FEELING ABOUT THIS PROJECT. SO WE KNOW THAT YOU'VE SENT THIS APPLICANT AWAY MANY TIMES AND THAT, UM, YOU'VE ASKED THEM TO ALTER THEIR PLANS AND, AND, UH, COME BACK AND, UM, WE COULD SHOW YOU THE SAME POWERPOINTS THAT WE'VE SHOWN YOU IN THE PAST, UM, AND REITERATE ALL THE PAST ISSUES. BUT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO MAKE ANY IMPRESSION OR A CHANGE, UH, WITH THIS APPLICATION. THEY HAVEN'T REALLY CHANGED MUCH OF ANYTHING. AS RALEIGH SAID, THEY JUST CONTINUE TO REAPPLY TO ATTEMPT TO SORT OF WEAR US DOWN AND LARGELY HAVE IGNORED THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S CONCERNS AND STAFF'S CONCERNS AND THIS COMMISSION'S CONCERNS. SO THE SCALE, THE MASS, THE DENSITY, UH, HASN'T CHANGED. WE STILL HAVE A THREE STORY URBAN TOWNHOUSE PROJECT IN AN AREA THAT'S NOT URBAN. THIS IS A ONE STORY NEIGHBORHOOD, A ONE STORY HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEY WERE ASKED TO REDUCE THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS. THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT. NOTHING IN THE PROPOSED PLANS IS REMOTELY CLOSE TO THE FORM AND THE CONTEXT OF THIS HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS NEIGHBORHOOD'S 1920S COTTAGE BUNGALOWS AND, UH, ONE STORY IN HEIGHT. AND IN ABOUT A YEAR AND A A LITTLE WHILE IN OCTOBER OF 2018, WE WERE TOLD BY THIS APPLICANT THAT THIS PROJECT WOULD BE NO MORE THAN TWO AND A HALF STORIES. WE WERE TOLD THE PROJECT WOULD USE NEARBY BUILDINGS AS A PRECEDENT FOR THE DESIGN, FOR THE ROOF LINES, FOR THE OVERHANGS, FOR MATERIALS, FOR WINDOWS, FOR DOORS, MASS AND SCALE SETBACKS, ORIENTATION AND VIEWS AND VISIBILITY. THE PROJECT HAS USED NOTHING FROM THE SURROUNDING CONTEXT AS A DESIGN PRECEDENT FOR ANY OF THOSE FEATURES THAT MR. MOORE TOLD US WOULD BE USED. THIS IS THE ONE-STOP BUILDING OVER THE SITE. ACTUALLY, THIS PROJECT IS TALLER THAN THIS BUILDING AND THIS IS SORT OF THE MASS AND SCALE THAT'S GONNA BE INTRODUCED INTO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS. I, UM, ALL THESE UNITS JUST LOOK LIKE THEY WERE MACHINED. THEY'RE UNIFORM IN APPEARANCE, THEY'RE JUST REPETITIVE. YOU DON'T SEE THAT IN THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD OR EVEN IN ONE PROPERTY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS PROPERTY IS ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE OLDEST HOUSE IN SAN ANTONIO, NORTH OF THE ALAMO. IT'S ALSO ALONG THE IRRIGATION DITCH. THAT WAS THE UPPER LABOR BORA SEIA THAT WAS DUG IN 1776. AND THE HISTORY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD DOES NOT SEEM TO BE A CONCERN TO THIS APPLICANT. THEY'RE NOT COMING BACK TO YOU WITH ANYTHING NEW AND DIFFERENT. FOR MONTHS. THEY'VE HAD A LIST OF ITEMS THAT STAFF IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE ASKED FOR AND THEY'VE BEEN LARGELY IGNORED. THE COMMISSION ASKED THE APPLICANT TO REDUCE THE HEIGHT. IT'S STILL A THREE STORY PROJECT. NOW, THE PLAN SHOW TRAIL STREET WIDENED, AND WE'RE ASKED THAT THE RUNOFF, WE'VE ASKED THAT THE RUNOFF BE REMOVED, BUT WATER STILL RUNS INTO THE ASA FROM ROOFS AND DRIVES. THEY'RE SHOWING PIPES GOING THROUGH TREES THAT ARE SHOWN TO BE PRESERVED ON THE DRAWINGS. 12 INCH PIPE THROUGH A PECAN TREE THAT'S SHOWN TO BE PRESERVED A WALL THROUGH A 12 INCH PECAN THAT'S SHOWN TO BE PRESERVED. SO MANY OF THE THINGS ON THE DRAWINGS ARE SORT OF SMOKE AND MIRRORS IN MY OPINION. UM, THE PATH, THE CONNECTIVITY PATH THAT GOES ALONG THE EDGE OF THE SITE FROM ATCH TO TRAIL ENDS UP IN A DRIVEWAY WITH A 10% CROSS SLOPE ON THAT DRIVEWAY. AND THAT DRIVEWAY'S LIKELY TO HAVE A CAR PARKED IN IT. MUCH OF THE TIME. THERE'S GONNA BE CARS PARKED ALL ALONG TRAIL. [02:00:02] THE UM, APPLICANT SAYS THEY'RE RESPECTING THE ASAKI AND THEY'RE GONNA STAY AWAY FROM THE ASI, BUT THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THAT ASAKIA IS. THIS IS THE MAP OF THEES, THE 20 SIXES. AND IN 1897, THERE WASN'T MUCH HERE OTHER THAN THE ROCK QUARRY AND FARMS. UM, BUT IN 1920 THE PROPERTY WAS SURVEYED. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT RED LINE ON THE LEFT, THAT'S THE PROPERTY LINE AND IT SAYS CENTER LINE OF THE UPPER LABOUR DITCH IS THE PROPERTY LINE. OKAY, SO WE REALLY DON'T KNOW WHERE THE ASA IS, BUT WHAT IF ARCHEOLOGY FINDS THAT THE ACTUAL ASA IS CLOSER THAN 15 FEET? ARE WE GONNA PICK UP AND MOVE BUILDINGS? ARE WE GONNA LOSE A FEW UNITS? WE DON'T KNOW. IT'S LIKELY THAT THE EXISTING DITCH WAS PLACED NEXT TO THIS ALIGNMENT. YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT WIDENS OUT THERE FITS YOU IS IS ACTUALLY TRAIL STREET NOW. SO WE'VE BEEN HERE TIME AND TIME AGAIN. WE'VE TAKEN TIME OFF WORK TO ATTEND HEARINGS. UM, YOU HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME LOOKING AT THIS AS WELL, AND IT HASN'T MADE MUCH DIFFERENCE ON THE APPLICATION. WE'VE HEARD VERY STRONG OPPOSITION FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. HOW MANY OF MY NEIGHBORS THAT ARE HERE TODAY ARE IN OPPOSITION TO THIS? PLEASE. THANK YOU. WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME. WE'VE, UH, UNIFORMLY SAID THAT WE DON'T WANT THIS IN OURS. VERY SPECIAL POINT PLACE IN THE CITY. WE HAVE A REAL SPECIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S ALONG THE RIVER, IT'S IN THE CENTER OF THE CITY. IT'S VERY GREEN, BEAUTIFUL TREES. IF THIS COMMISSION DECIDES THEY'RE GONNA GO INTO THE WILL OF ALL OF THE NEIGHBORS WHO HAVE REPEATEDLY COME TO ALL THESE MEETINGS AND AGAINST CITY STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, YOU'VE GOTTA HOLD THEM TO THEIR WORD ON ALL OF THE PROMISES AND STIPULATIONS, NO DRAINAGE INTO THE ASAKI. REMOVE THE NON-CONFORMING RUNOFF THAT GOES INTO THE ASA. IF THEY'RE GONNA USE PERMEABLE PAVERS, THEY HAVE TO HAVE SUFFICIENT CAPACITY. THE A HUNDRED YEAR FLOOD SHOULD BE CONTAINED ENTIRELY ON THEIR SITE. YOU SHOULD ASK AND NOTE WHAT THE MATERIALS ARE FOR LANDSCAPE, INCLUDING THAT BASIN. THE STONE, WHAT IS IT EXACTLY? THIS IS A FINAL SET OF DRAWINGS FOR FINAL APPROVAL. THE HISTORIC FENCE WIRE THAT THEY'RE SHOWING IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE. SO HOW HOW'S THAT GONNA BE USED? WHAT EXACTLY ARE THOSE CISTERNS GONNA LOOK LIKE? WHY NOT ADD MORE CISTERNS? UM, AND HOW ARE THE DOWNSPOUTS GONNA MAKE THEIR WAY TO THESE CISTERNS? THERE'S NOTHING ON THE ELEVATIONS THAT SHOWS ANYTHING ABOUT GUTTERS OR DOWNSPOUTS. ARE THEY GONNA RUN ACROSS THE FACE OF THE BUILDING? WE DON'T KNOW. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A FINAL SET OF DRAWINGS, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE LEFT UNDEFINED. THE DETENTION BASIN IS UNLIKE ANYTHING IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. SCRUBBING IT UP WITH PLANTS AND HIDING IT IS NOT ENOUGH. WE NOW, WE SEE PLANTERS IN THE DETENTION BASIN. I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS. DOES THAT REDUCE CAPACITY? WE DON'T KNOW, BUT IT SEEMS ODD WITH A NEIGHBORHOOD GARDEN NEXT DOOR WHERE WE INVITE PEOPLE INTO THE GARDEN OR WE'RE PUTTING ANOTHER ONE IN NEXT DOOR. ARE WE GONNA BE INVITED INTO THAT GARDEN? WE DON'T KNOW. BUT THERE ARE STEPS IN AND OUT OF THAT GARDEN THAT ARE NON A D A. I MEAN, HOW DOES THAT WORK? WE KNOW THAT ALL THE TREES ON THE SITE ARE LIKELY TO DIE. THEY'RE REMOVING ALL OF THEM EXCEPT THREE. THOSE THREE, ONE ON THE ASAKIA EDGE NOW HAS A PIPE UNDER IT AND A WALL. AND THE DETENTION POND IS INSIDE THE ROOT PROTECTION ZONE. THE TREES ON TRAIL STREET HAVE A FOOT OF FILL OVER THEM. THERE'S A THREE STORY BUILDING, UM, WITHIN EIGHT FEET OF THE BALD CYPRUS. AND AGAIN, IT'S JUST NOT REALLY, UH, AN IDEAL CONDITION TO SAVE TREES. WE WANT THE APPLICANT TO HAVE TREE WARRANTIES ON THE TREES. UM, THEY'RE REQUESTING A FINAL CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, BUT THERE'S A BIG LACK OF INFORMATION. WE HAVE SUCH A GREAT SETTING. THIS IS THE PLACE WHERE WE LIVE. AND IN NINE, THE 1970S FORMER MAYOR, UM, WARREN MAVERICK WAS GIVING HOME TOURS OF HISTORIC HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, INCLUDING THE COLLUM HOUSE THERE. UM, WE'RE MADE UP OF GREAT HISTORIC HOMES, BUT WE ALSO HAVE A REAL CONCERN ABOUT NATURAL FACTORS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE'RE ON THE RIVER. WE HAVE EROSION, WE HAVE FLOODS. WE CENTER AROUND THE RIVER. AND WHAT WE ARE IS A NEIGHBORHOOD OF ONE STORY BUNGALOWS ON THE RIVER. AND WHAT'S PROPOSED IS NOTHING LIKE OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. THAT'S TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. WE WOULD REQUEST SEE YOU DENY THIS PROJECT. THANK YOU. LUCY WILSON. [02:05:02] MY NAME IS LUCY WILSON. I LIVE AT ONE 30 MAGNOLIA, UH, ROAD MAGNOLIA DRIVE. UH, AND AS I TOLD YOU LAST TIME, I'M A NEWBIE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS MY SECOND YEAR THERE. I HAD SOME CONCERNS SINCE I FIRST LEARNED ABOUT THIS PROJECT, UH, REGARDING TRAFFIC, AND I WASN'T SURE IF THAT WAS APPROPRIATE TO BRING BEFORE THIS GROUP. BUT THEN I CAME ACROSS, UH, IN THE APPLICABLE CITATION SECTION OF THE APPLICATION, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WIDE DESIGN STANDARDS, THAT IT INDICATED THAT IT DOES MATTER, UH, HOW, UH, THINGS DO AFFECT, UH, TRAFFIC IN THE ADJOINING AREA. AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE YOU AWARE THAT TRAIL, UH, IS A DEAD END STREET. IT'S ABOUT A BLOCK LONG. THE ONLY ENTRANCE AND EXIT ARE FROM ST. MARY'S. AND THIS IS WHERE IT INTERSECTS WITH TRAIL AND DEBERRY STREET. ON EACH OF THESE STREETS, THERE'S A STOP SIGN AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A STOP SIGN JUST BEFORE YOU ENTER ST. MARY'S, THERE'S ENOUGH ROOM FOR A CAR TO PULL UP AND WAIT TO GET ONTO ST. MARY'S. BUT IF A SECOND CAR PULLS IN BEHIND THEM, THAT THEN BLOCKS THE EXIT FROM ST. MARY'S. IT'S A VERY TRICKY LITTLE INTERSECTION, AND IT TOOK ME NEARLY A YEAR TO DECIDE THAT I WANTED TO RISK TRYING TO USE IT AS MY EXIT AND ENTRANCE INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, IT'S ALSO ENOUGH OF A CONCERN THAT OUR CITY COUNCILMAN, UH, TREVINO RECOGNIZES IT AS A POTENTIAL PROBLEM AND IS LIKELY TO REQUEST A TRAFFIC FLOW STUDY OF THIS AREA. CURBSIDE PARKING IS ALSO GOING TO BE AN ISSUE ON TRAIL STREET. THE STREET THAT I LIVE ON IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS ONE OF THE MORE NARROW STREETS, AND I AM SO LUCKY AS TO HAVE A FIRE HYDRANT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE SO NO ONE CAN PARK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE. ANYONE VISITING ME? FORTUNATELY, I HAVE A LONG, UH, DRIVEWAY SO THEY CAN PARK IN MY DRIVEWAY AND THAT'S WHAT WE DO. BUT I, I CAN SEE THERE BEING SOME REAL ISSUES FOR THE RESIDENTS WHO PURCHASE THESE, UH, HOMES. UM, I STILL HAVE CONCERN THAT THE PRO AS THE PROJECT CONTINUES TO MOVE FORWARD, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH, UH, THREE STORY STRUCTURES HAVE BEEN FI GIVEN FINAL APPROVAL, YET THEY ARE CLEARLY INVAL IN VIOLATION OF THE THE STANDARDS. UH, THE OTHER DAY I WAS WALKING MY DOGS ALONG SATCH AND LOOKED AT THE LITTLE, AT ONE OF THE SMALL HOUSES THERE, THE ONE THAT WOULD BE NEAREST TO THIS, UH, GROUPING. AND I SAW THE MAN WHO LIVES THERE WAS OUT IN THE BACKYARD WITH THIS LITTLE DOG AND THE FALL SUNLIGHT WAS HITTING RIGHT ON THEM BEAUTIFULLY. AND I THOUGHT AS SOON AS THAT THREE STORY STRUCTURE GOES UP BESIDE HIS HOME, HOW LIFE, HIS QUALITY OF LIFE IS GOING TO BE DRAMATICALLY IMPACTED. AS YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN TOLD YOU, RIVER ROAD IS A VERY UNIQUE NEIGHBORHOOD DUE TO ITS BOUNDARIES. PARTIALLY, UH, I'VE BEEN GIVEN EXTRA TIME BY BARBARA WHITT HOWELL. OKAY, BARBARA'S HERE. UM, SO THREE MORE MINUTES. UH, RIVER ROAD'S A VERY UNIQUE, UNIQUE NEIGHBORHOOD, PARTIALLY DUE TO, TO ITS BOUNDARIES, BUT I ALSO FIND IT'S HISTORICAL VALUE IS ALSO WITHIN THE STRUCTURE, THE SOCIAL FABRIC AS WELL AS ITS JUST, ITS STRUCTURAL NATURE. UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN AN ERA WHEN CITY PLANNERS ARE BEGINNING TO SEARCH FOR WAYS TO INCREASE AREAS FOR SOCIAL INTERACTION WITHIN THE CITY AND WITHIN NEIGHBORHOODS. AND RIVER ROAD HAS BEEN ABLE TO SUSTAIN THAT THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. YOU WALK DOWN THE STREET, YOU STOP. YOU CAN'T GET DOWN THE STREET WITHOUT STOPPING AND TALKING TO A NEIGHBOR. YOU WALK YOUR DOGS, YOU SEE THEIR DOGS. UH, WE KNOW EACH OTHER AND THAT'S IN DANGER AT THIS, UH, BEING PRESERVED. UH, ALONG BROADWAY WITH THE PLANS THERE, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT, WELL, WE DON'T WANNA DO BIKE LANES BECAUSE WE NEED SPACE FOR PEDESTRIANS. WE NEED SPACE FOR TREES. AND YET WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ALLOWING TREES TO BE REMOVED. UH, YOU KNOW, MAGNIFICENT TREES TO BE REMOVED IN OUR OWN NEIGHBORHOOD. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE'S SOME CONFLICTS OF VALUES GOING ON, AND I'M NOT SURE WHERE THEY ARE, BUT WE ARE LIKE A SMALL TOWN. IT'S, IT'S A VERY, UH, WONDERFUL PLACE TO LIVE. UH, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE ARD REPORT OVER THE WEEKEND, AND I JUST WANTED TO READ ONE LITTLE BIT OF WHAT THE MAN SAID WHO HAS JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT A HOME. HE SAID, WHEN YOU PULL INTO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S QUITE UNASSUMING. YOU EITHER ENTER BEHIND A RUB DUB CAR WASH ALMOST THROUGH [02:10:01] AN ALLEY, OR YOU DRIVE ALONG DAVIS PARK, WHICH IS ULTIMATELY JUST THE BIG FIELD. IT'S NOT UNTIL YOU DRIVE ALL THE STREETS, INCLUDING BOTH MAGNOLIAS, THAT YOU COME TO REALIZE THAT YOU'RE SOMEWHERE SPECIAL WHEN YOU'RE IN RIVER ROAD. YOU JUST KNOW THAT YOU'RE HOME. YOU AS COMMISSIONERS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HELP PRESERVE THIS. BUT APPROVING PROJECTS WITH THE POPULATION DENSITY AND STRUCTURAL HEIGHT OF THE ONE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT GRADUALLY EATS AWAY AT THE QUALITY OF LIFE. EATS AWAY AT OUR EXISTENCE AS A TRUE NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. JIM MCKEN. MS. KENNEDY RECEIVED SIX MINUTES. BILL SIBLEY HAS YIELDED HIS TIME. HI. THANK YOU GUYS FOR LISTENING TO US AGAIN. WE'VE BEEN HERE MANY TIMES. I'M GEM MCKEN. I LIVE AT 5 0 9 RIVER ROAD, WHICH IS JUST CORRECTION. YOU ACTUALLY RECEIVED NINE MINUTES. UM, ARLENE FISHER YIELDED HER TIME. OH, DON'T, DO YOU HAVE NINE MINUTES ON YOU? I DON'T NEED NINE MINUTES. IN FACT, WHAT I WAS GONNA DO IS WHAT MY FELLOW CO COLLEAGUES AND NEIGHBORS HAVE DONE. WE'VE BEEN HERE SO MANY TIMES. I'VE SAT IN AT THE DESIGN REVIEW MEETINGS. I'VE WORKED WITH O H P. WE HAD, EVEN BEFORE WE STARTED THIS PROJECT, WE HAD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES COME AND EXPLAIN TO THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD WHAT IS THE ZONING, WHAT DO WE EXPECT FROM T C I, WHAT DO WE EXPECT FROM STORMWATER? SO WHEN WE MADE OUR REQUEST TO THE DEVELOPER BACK IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER OF 1918, THAT WE WERE CLEAR PURPOSE, WHAT WE REALLY FELT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD EXPECTED. YOU'VE ALREADY HEARD MOST OF IT. WE, I'M EVEN DROPPING OFF SOME OF THE THINGS. AND MANY OF THE THINGS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED BY YOU SO MANY TIMES, AND I WAS GONNA GIVE YOU 8 MILLION DATES AND HOW MUCH TIME WE'VE PUT IN, BUT I'M NOT GONNA DO THAT. DENSITY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SIGNIFICANT THING FOR US IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ONES. WE UNDERSTAND THE ZONING ALLOWS THINGS, BUT WE ALSO KNOW WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS, HOW IT'S LOCATED. WE LIVE IN A FLOODPLAIN AND WE KNEW 24, UH, HOUSING UNITS WERE, UH, REALLY TOO MUCH, EVEN THOUGH IT'S A ZONE FOR A LOT LARGER THING, LOT LARGER PROPERTY. AS AN MF 33, WE REALIZED THAT WE WERE HOPING WE COULD, UH, DECREASE THE SIZE OF THE DENSITY AND REALLY HAVE REPEATED THAT NOT ONLY HERE, O H P HAS PUT IT IN THEIR FINDINGS FOR YOU. AND, UH, AND AS MANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS WHO HAVE MET HAVE ALSO MENTIONED THIS. THE OTHER THING AND IS THE SCALE. AND WE HAVE HISTORIC GUIDELINES FOR ONE PURPOSE, TO PROTECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND TO BUILD IT WITHIN, UH, THE BOUNDARIES THAT WE SEE FIT FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND HISTORIC WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO US SEEING, OBTAINING THAT. WE REALIZED TRAIL IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND PART OF THE OTHER HALF OF THE PROPERTY IS IN THE RIO. OF COURSE, THE HISTORIC, HISTORIC IS ALSO IN THE RIO DISTRICT. WE'VE ASKED NUMEROUS TIMES THAT ONLY TWO STORIES BE ON TRAIL. AND INSTEAD WE'VE PLAYED DIFFERENT GAMES WHERE WE HAVE FIVE BUILDINGS THAT ARE THREE STORY AND THREE BUILDINGS THAT ARE TWO TRAIL IS A SUBSTANDARD STREET, WHICH THEY'VE HAD TO EXPAND. WE THOUGHT MAYBE WHEN WE WERE EXPANDING, WE MIGHT GET A LITTLE MORE PUSHBACK. INSTEAD, WHEN WE EXPANDED, WE CUT THE DRIVEWAYS BY TWO FEET. SO, AND IF YOU GO BACK AND I CAN READ YOU ALL THE DATES WHERE EVERYONE HAS, UH, TALKED ABOUT SCALE AND IN THE FINDINGS OF O H P, WE'VE REQUESTED THAT. WE'VE ALSO REQUESTED TWO STORIES ON THE BUILDING ON ATCH. AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY'RE ADJACENT TO A ONE STORY BUILDING. AND ON OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSIONS, UH, WE'VE SHOWN PICTURES OF THAT. WE'VE SHOWN DATING OVER THE, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDINGS AND SHADOW IN THE NEIGHBORING BUILDINGS STARTED THEN WITH STORM WATER. AND WHY, FOR THE ONES WHO ARE VERY NEW, WHY STORM WATER? WHEN YOU LIVE IN A FLOOD PLAIN AND YOU'RE SURROUNDED BY WATER, AND WHEN STORMS COME AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT OF RIVER ROAD, WE HAVE AN ACCESS POINT, WHICH IS TRAIL STREET. THAT'S WHERE ALL THE CARS ARE GONNA HAVE TO GO WHEN RIVER ROAD IS COVERED WITH WATER. [02:15:01] SO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD REALLY TAKES FLOODING AND WATER CONTROL VERY SERIOUSLY. AND AS CHAIRMAN FETZER SAID ONE THING, STORM WATER DESIGNED FOR THIS KIND OF PROPERTY REALLY IMPACTS THE DESIGN YOU'RE GOING TO GET. AND, UH, WHAT WE FOUND WITH THE STORM WATER THAT THEY ARE MAKING PROGRESS IN DOING IT. AND I APPLAUD THEM FOR WORKING WITH, UH, UH, STORM WATER. WE TALKED WITH, UH, JACOB AND WE LOOKED AT THEIR PLANS, BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF UN ANSWERS. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU MENTIONED, MR. FETZER, IN ONE OF YOUR DESIGN REVIEW WAS THESE ROOFS. HOW ARE WE GONNA HANDLE, THERE'S NO PLACE FOR GUTTERS AND YET WE'RE GOING TO USE THESE FOR THE GUTTERS COMING DOWN. AND WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT THING WHEN YOU'RE HAVING WATER CATCHMENT AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS. I'M GLAD THEY PUT A STIPULATION ON THE FIVE BUILDINGS BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S LIKE 1500 GALLONS IN A ONE YEAR FLOOD. ROLLING OFF ROOFS AND WITHOUT ANY CATCHMENT IN THOSE FIVE BUILDINGS WOULD ALSO INCLUDE FLOODING THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDINGS. WE'VE, WE'VE STOPPED. REALLY. THEY TRIED. THEY WORKED THEIR BEST. IT STILL DOESN'T QUITE FIT IN WITH OUR, UH, HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE DON'T WANT ANYTHING IDENTICAL. 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW THE HISTORIC ISLAND WORK. I'M JUST GONNA END THIS. I'M NOT GONNA CONTINUE ON. I THINK YOU'VE HEARD MOST OF MY NEIGHBORS EXPLAIN TO YOU NUMEROUS TIMES ABOUT THIS. WE REALLY, I, I HAVE TO BE TRUTHFUL, WE REALLY WANTED SOMETHING DEVELOPED ON THAT. HAVING CONDOMINIUMS, YOU KNOW, THESE TOWNHOUSES WOULD BE CONDOMINIUMS, PEOPLE OWNING IT. WE LIKE TO BRING LIFE TO TRAIL STREET WHERE YOU HAVE NEIGHBORS THERE, THERE USED TO BE NEIGHBORS THERE, BUT ALL THOSE HOMES WERE TORN DOWN ON THAT LOT. SO WE STILL FEEL WE CAN'T APPROVE OF, UH, THE CERTIFICATION OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THIS, UH, PROJECT. WE REALLY WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A PROJECT THERE, BUT WE STILL SEE THERE'S PROBLEMS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ADDRESSED REALLY SINCE OUR FIRST MEETING IN AUGUST, 2018. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, TIME WAS YIELDED FROM MARK MARTINEZ, NOT ARLENE FISHER, I APOLOGIZE. UM, NEXT IS, UH, KIM WOOD. GEORGE NASH. UM, THE LAST NAME IS PATRICK, I BELIEVE. OKAY. UM, ARLENE FISHER. I THINK THAT'S IT FOR THE SPEAKERS. MORGAN, WILL YOU COME BACK UP, PLEASE? SO FIRST OFF, I WANNA SAY THANK YOU TO THE NEIGHBORS. UM, THIS HAS BEEN, IT'S BEEN A LONG PROCESS. UM, WE STARTED KIND OF GOING DOOR TO DOOR, MEETING THE NEIGHBORS, GOING IN THEIR HOUSES, HAVING COFFEE, DISCUSSING THE SITE PLAN. UM, WE HAD ORIGINALLY DISCUSSED ON A VERY CONCEPTUAL LEVEL. WE WERE DISCUSSING THE DRIVEWAY ON TRAIL STREET. WE WERE DISCUSSING THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WE WANTED TO DO. UM, WE WERE DISCUSSING, DO WE WANT TO DO FOR RENT, DO WE WANNA DO FOR SALE? UH, WE WERE DISCUSSING, YOU KNOW, WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITY AMENITIES ARE ARE NICE. WE WERE DISCUSSING THE DRIVEWAYS ON TRAIL STREET. WE WERE DISCUSSING TRAFFIC CONCERNS. WE HAD A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING, THINK ABOUT 40 NEIGHBORS WERE PRESENT. WE SPOKE TO THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, COUNCILMAN TREVINO'S, REPRESENTATIVE JEB MAUS WAS THERE. WE DISCUSSED DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE PLAN. AND, AND WHAT WE FOUND OUT WAS THAT THERE WASN'T UNANIMOUS CONSENSUS ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS TO WHAT EXACTLY WAS WANTED. UM, SO WE KINDA WORKED. WE GOT A LOT OF FEEDBACK, WE COLLECTED IT, WE PUT IT TOGETHER AND, UH, CAME UP WITH THE PLAN THAT WE HAVE TODAY. UH, OF COURSE, AFTER A LOT OF ITERATIONS GOING THROUGH H D R C DEVELOPMENT PLANS, ARCHITECTURAL PLANS ARE INCREDIBLY COMPLEX, INCREDIBLY DETAILED. UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF, A LOT OF ITEMS THAT CAN BE LASER FOCUSED ON. THERE'S A LOT OF ITEMS THAT CAN CAUSE CONFUSION. UM, WHAT WE'VE DONE THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE PROCESS IS WE'VE HAD THE SAME PLAN THAT WE SUBMITTED, UH, IN AUGUST. UM, WE'VE UPDATED THAT WITH WHAT WAS ASKED, WHICH WAS MAINLY THE STORM WATER, [02:20:01] UH, DRAINAGE DETAILS ON, ON TRAIL STREET AND, UH, THE ASEC. AND WE'VE UPDATED SOME OF THOSE DETAILS AS AN ADDENDUM TO THOSE DRAWINGS. BUT THE DRAWINGS HAVE BEEN THERE AND THE DETAILS HAVE BEEN THERE. FROM AN APPLICANT'S PERSPECTIVE, FROM SOMEONE TRYING TO BUILD MORE COMMUNITY IN SAN ANTONIO, UM, REALLY WE WANT TO BUILD IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD OF THE NORTHERN MOST POINT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO BRACKENRIDGE PARK. WE WANT FAMILIES, WE WANT INDIVIDUALS. WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO EXPERIENCE THE PARK EXPERIENCE SAN ANTONIO. UM, AS A, AS A NEW, AS A NEW COMMUNITY, UH, WE WANT, WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT LIFESTYLE. UM, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY OUR INTENTION ALL ALONG WITH THE PROJECT. IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, NEIGHBORHOOD, NEIGHBORHOOD COMMENTS THERE, THEY'RE, WE GET, WE GET BLINDSIDED EVERY MEETING BECAUSE WE JUST DON'T, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA COME UP. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA BE PRESENTED. I'M NOT ABLE TO LOOK THROUGH ALL OF OUR PLANS TO SEE IF THE INFORMATION WAS REAL, IF IT WAS FALSIFIED. UM, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DO OUR BEST TO FOLLOW THE PROCESS, UH, FROM CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO FINAL APPROVAL. I HAVE A TEAM, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF A LOT OF THESE KIND OF DETAILED AND, AND SOMEWHAT CONFUSING ASPECTS OF A DEVELOPMENT PROJECT. WE GO TO CITY DEPARTMENTS AND WE GET GUIDANCE REQUIREMENTS AND WE MEET CODE. UM, THESE ARE CODE IS EXTREMELY DETAILED. IT TAKES, IT TAKES A WHOLE SET OF EXPERTS TO INTERPRET WHAT WE NEED AND TO DESIGN THESE THINGS. UM, WE'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THAT PROCESS. WE'VE GONE TO THE CITY DEPARTMENTS, UM, WE'VE TALKED TO T C I, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ACTUALLY HAVE A, HAVE SAID THAT WE'RE REALLY DOING A GREAT JOB ON OUR NEW STORMWATER PLAN. WE ARE WORKING WITH PEOPLE THAT KNOW HOW TO COMPREHEND THESE OFTEN CONFUSING, EXTREMELY DETAILED PORTIONS OF A PROJECT. AND IN TERMS OF THE PROCESS, I MEAN, FROM CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO TODAY, WE, WE HAVE TO ASK, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT'S REALLY CHANGED? I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO CHANGE SIGNIFICANTLY FROM CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE GO AHEAD. THAT'S GO AHEAD. WE, WE'VE GIVEN UNANIMOUS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO THIS PROJECT WITH TWO STIPULATIONS. THAT'S THE GO AHEAD. IN TERMS OF, IN TERMS OF MEETING WITH NEIGHBORS, I MEAN, WE'VE DONE, I'VE DRIVEN AROUND WITH NEIGHBORS LOOKING AT NEIGHBORHOODS, LOOKING AT PROJECTS AS PRECEDENT. I'VE WALKED THE SITE WITH NEIGHBORS. I'VE PRESENTED, WE'VE HAD SO MANY DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETINGS. I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER ANYMORE, BUT NEIGHBORS ARE ALLOWED TO ATTEND. WE'RE GETTING FEEDBACK ON THE DESIGN AT THOSE MEETINGS. AND I, I REALLY THINK A PROJECT LIKE THIS, IT COULD, IT COULD GO ON FOREVER. IT COULD GO ON FOREVER, GIVEN THE INFINITE AMOUNT OF DETAILS, THE INFINITE AMOUNT OF CONFUSION. AND THAT'S WHY WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO RELY ON CITY DEPARTMENTS EXPERTS. AND, AND THERE'S NO, THERE WILL NEVER BE CONSENSUS ON ANY DESIGN. THERE WILL NEVER BE CONSENSUS ON ANY DESIGN. THERE WILL NEVER BE CONSENSUS ON ANY NEW PROJECT. WE'VE GOTTEN EMAILS FROM PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD SAYING, WHEN ARE THESE AVAILABLE? WE'D BE INTERESTED IN BUYING ONE. WE'VE HAD EMAILS FROM PEOPLE SAYING, WE LIKE THE DESIGN. UM, I THINK GIVEN WHERE WE WERE IN OUR LAST HEARING, GIVEN THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE AEIA, GIVEN THE YEAR THAT WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS, I BELIEVE THAT THE PROJECT IS READY FOR APPROVAL. AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT, WE'VE AC WE'VE EN AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROCESS, WE REALLY DID ENJOY WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORS. WE REALLY DID. WE MET WITH THEM SO MANY TIMES. I TALKED TO THEM ON THE PHONE. WE WERE REALLY TRYING TO FIND A SOLUTION THAT WOULD WORK. WE COULD NEVER GET UNIFORM OPINION, BUT WE DID AS, I MEAN, WE HAVE DONE. AND I THINK THE NEIGHBORS WOULD AGREE THAT WE'VE DONE AS MUCH AS WE CAN TO KEEP THEM IN THE LOOP, TO OPEN A DIALOGUE. AND WE'VE CREATIVELY FIGURED OUT ANOTHER SOLUTION BASED ON ANOTHER CONCERN. I THINK IT'S READY. AND I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF NEW MEMBERS AVAILABLE [02:25:01] THAT HAVEN'T BEEN THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE HISTORY OF THE PROCESS, BUT I THINK WE'RE READY TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS PROJECT. AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I THINK WE'VE COME TO A BETTER PROJECT BASED ON THIS PROCESS, AND THAT'S MY OPINION. I HAVE A QUESTION. YOU MENTIONED FIRST YOU SAID THAT YOU FELT AS THOUGH THAT YOU HAD CONSENSUS OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS. THEN YOU WENT AROUND AND SAID THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE CONSENSUS ON THE DESIGN. AND THEN YOU SAID THAT YOU COULD NEVER GET UNIFORM OPINION. OKAY, SO I'M KIND OF CONFUSED. YOU KIND OF WENT AROUND A CIRCLE THERE. YEAH, SORRY. I DIDN'T INTEND TO SAY THAT WE EVER HAD, UM, A UNANIMOUS CONSENSUS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT, WHAT WE HAD WAS WE, WHEN WE ENTERED INTO THIS MEETING, THERE WERE DIFFERING OPINIONS. THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE THAT LIKED THE DESIGN. THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE THAT WANTED A DRIVEWAY THROUGH THE PROPERTY CONNECTING TRAIL AND ATCH. THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T WANT A DRIVEWAY CONNECTING TRAIL AND ATCH. UM, SO YEAH, MY, SORRY IF I MISSPOKE. WE NEVER, WE NEVER HAD A UNANIMOUS APPROVAL FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE. UM, BUT WE'VE DONE, WHAT WE TRIED TO DO WAS TAKE ALL OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE COULD AND BALANCE THAT BASED ON THE NEEDS OF WHAT WE THINK THE MARKET DESIRES, THE NEEDS OF ALL OF OUR CITY DEPARTMENTS AND THE NEEDS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE COMMUNITY. AND IT'S A LOT OF, IT'S A LOT TO BALANCE, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE HAD TO, THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. I THINK THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE TO DO. UM, BUT WE'VE, WE OPENED UP DIALOGUE. WE HAD, WE REALLY, WE REALLY, I THINK WE'VE, WE'VE DONE EVERYTHING WE CAN TO, TO TRY TO MAKE THIS AND, AND, AND BLEND THIS IN, MAKE THIS A PROJECT THAT I THINK IS READY FOR APPROVAL. SO WERE THE NEIGHBORS THAT YOU SPOKE WITH, WHEN YOU SAID YOU FELT THAT YOU HAD SOME TYPE OF CONSENSUS, ARE YOU SAYING NOW THAT YOU DIDN'T, YOU DON'T FEEL AS THOUGH YOU HAD THAT? OR DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH YOU GOT CONSENSUS FOR A NUMBER OF THE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE IN THE COMMUNITY? I, I FELT LIKE IT WAS A MIXED BAG. SO SOME NEIGHBORS, SOME NEIGHBORS LIKED THE PROJECT AND LIKED WHAT WE WERE DOING IN TERMS OF TRAIL STREET. SOME PEOPLE WANTED LESS UNITS, BUT THEY DIDN'T MIND THEM BEING BIGGER, MORE EXPENSIVE UNITS. UM, MOST PEOPLE DISAPPROVED, I'D SAY 95% DISAPPROVED OF LIKE A FOR RENT PRODUCT VERSUS A FOR SALE PRODUCT. UM, IN TERMS OF DESIGN, IT'S, IT DESIGN'S SO SUBJECTIVE, BUT WE KNEW THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MODERN KIND OF ELEMENT OF OUR PREVIOUS DESIGN AND KIND OF UNIFORMITY OF IT WAS WE KNEW THAT WASN'T, WE WERE HEARING A LOT OF FEEDBACK THAT WE WANT THIS TO LOOK DIFFERENT. WE WANT IT TO KIND OF BE BROKEN UP. SO WE, WE ATTEMPTED TO DO THAT WITH OUR NEW DESIGN. I THINK IT'S, IT'S A DESIGN I REALLY LOVE. UM, SO WE'VE, WE'VE WORKED REALLY HARD TO, TO TRY TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO, TO, TO WORK WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK GIVEN THE BIG ISSUE IN THE LAST HEARING ON THE STORM DRAINAGE PLAN, I MEAN, IT WAS A, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO WORK AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE CITY DEPARTMENT WANTS TO DO FOR STORMWATER AND WHAT'S, UH, GOOD FROM AN ENGINEERING AND LIKE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE PERSPECTIVE. UM, MEANWHILE WE HAVE DEMANDS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, DEMANDS FROM THE COMMITTEE. AND SO WE WORKED TOGETHER, WE CAME UP WITH A PLAN WHERE WE HAVE NO DRAINAGE INTO THE ASEC, WE'RE DRAINING OUT TO, TO ATCH. WE MADE THAT POND A COMMUNITY GARDEN, AND WE'RE REALLY TRYING EVERYTHING. UM, AND I, I, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE COME, WE'VE COME A LONG WAY AND THIS IS JUST GONNA BE A GREAT PROJECT. IT'S GONNA ALLOW NEW RESIDENTS INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S GOING TO OPEN UP THE PARK. UM, I'M, I'M JUST EXCITED TO GET IT STARTED. WELL, WE THANK YOU FOR WORKING WITH THE COMMISSION AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND WE ALSO THANK THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR THEIR CONCERN AND ALWAYS COMING FORWARD WITH, UM, THEIR COMMENTS. UM, THE PROJECT HAS, UH, I THINK PROGRESSED TO A BETTER PLACE, UM, GETTING RID OF THE DETENTION POND ALONG THE ASAA, UH, DIRECTLY ADDING THE CISTERNS FOR WATER CATCHMENT, WHETHER YOU KNOW, WHAT THOSE LOOK LIKE, HOW BIG THEY ARE, MATERIALS, ALL THAT IS, IS A QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE, UH, DEFINED, UM, GARAGES ON TRAIL STREET. UH, I DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, I [02:30:01] I STILL HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING FIVE WITH THE BEING THREE STORIES ON TRAIL. UM, BUT, UH, I DO COMMEND THE, THE DEVELOPER AND THE ARCHITECTS FOR, UH, MOVING THE PROJECT FORWARD. YEAH, I I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, SAY THAT WE THANK YOU FOR WORKING WITH THE CITY ENGINEERS AND, AND TRYING TO DEVELOP THOSE A A REALISTIC APPROACH TO THE DRAINAGE. THAT WAS A REALLY LARGE CONCERN THAT, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME MORE FEEDBACK ON LATER. BUT I THINK FROM WHAT YOU'VE BEEN, WHAT YOU'VE PRESENTED IT, IT IT APPEARS TO BE A MUCH MORE REFINED SOLUTION, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. UM, AND THE OTHER THING, UH, STAFF, CAN YOU LOOK AT, UH, CAN YOU PULL UP A GOOGLE AERIAL JUST FOR OUR FELLOW COMMISSIONERS OF THE SITE, JUST SO THAT WE CAN KIND OF SHOW THE SURROUNDINGS THERE? THIS, TO ME, THIS SITE IS, UM, CAN YOU PULL IT UP ON LIKE GOOGLE MAPS? IT'D BE A LITTLE BIT BETTER. SO THERE'S, THERE'S A LARGE PORTION OF COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES JUST NORTH OF THIS. SO IT, IT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE IT'S A, IT'S ON THE NORTHERN MOST END OF THIS RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. I MEAN, USUALLY WHEN WE SEE THIS, UM, TYPE OF CONDITION, IT, IT ALLOWS US TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDING OF HEIGHT DIFFERENTIAL. WHENEVER YOU HAVE A HIGH RISE, YOU KNOW, RIGHT ACROSS THE BLOCK, WELL, YOU HAVE A RIO OVERLAY GUIDELINES ON ONE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY AND RIVER ROAD HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD GUIDELINES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. THAT'S WHY. YEAH. BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS CON, YOU KNOW, CONTEXTUALLY, YOU KNOW, JUST FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S SAKE, JUST FOR SCALE, UM, TO ME, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT APPARENT TO OUR, OUR NEW COMMISSIONERS, THE LOCATION OF THIS IN RELATION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, JUST BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. UM, SO I THINK THAT IT IS ON THE OUTSIDE BUFFER OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO NOTE. UM, BUT I, I COMMEND YOUR WORK. I THINK, UH, I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE DONE A LOT TOWARDS GETTING THIS TO A, AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION, SO I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU. I WANNA ASK STAFF, UM, HOW DID THIS COME FROM THE DENIAL BACK TO THE COMMISSION? UM, SO THE CODE DOES ALLOW WHERE CHANGES HAVE OCCURRED FOR A APPLICATION TO BE RECONSIDERED, BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THE DISCUSSION AT THE LAST MEETING WAS FOCUSED ON THE STORMWATER PLAN, AND WE SAW A REVISED PLAN, UM, WE FELT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO RECONSIDER IT. UM, I WILL SAY THAT IF THERE'S ANOTHER DENIAL TODAY, WE WOULD LOOK FOR SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES BEFORE THE ITEM COULD BE RECONSIDERED. SO I'VE, I WAS AGAINST THE DENIAL LAST TIME BECAUSE I FELT THAT, UM, THAT WAS NOT AN, A MOTION I WAS AGREEING WITH, BUT IT DIDN'T MEAN LIKE, I WAS NOT, AND I WAS TRYING TO GET A MOTION TO BE APPROVED. UM, I JUST WANNA TELL THE NEW COMMISSIONERS, I MEAN, THIS CASE HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A YEAR AND A HALF, AND WE'VE HAD, UM, CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND THEN MANY, MANY ATTEMPTS TO FINAL APPROVAL AND MANY FAILED MOTIONS. UM, WHICH FOR DIFFERENTIATE OPINIONS WITHIN THE COMMISSION, UM, WE HAVE TWO COMMISSIONERS ABSENT TODAY THAT HAVE HAD VERY, VERY STRONG ALSO FEELINGS TO THIS CASE. UM, I ACTUALLY FEEL VERY, UM, NOT, I DON'T FEEL RIGHT VOTING WITHOUT THEM. UM, I, ONE OF THEM WAS VERY CON WELL, THAT'S ACTUALLY BOTH OF THEM ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE STORM WATER AND THE DESIGN ITSELF, UH, WHICH I THINK YOU'VE TOUCHED ON TODAY. BUT IT IS ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY, UM, DID NOT WANNA APPROVE THE PROJECT. UM, AND WE HAVE TWO NEW COMMISSIONERS TODAY THAT HAVE NOT SEEN THIS PROJECT EVER AND, UM, WHO MAY OR HAVE THE RIGHT TO ABSTAIN IF THEY WANT TO. UM, SO I DON'T KNOW, AND I DON'T WANT THE APPLICANT TO KEEP GOING BACK AND FORTH. I HAD APPROVED THIS, UH, PROJECT BEFORE BECAUSE I HAD A FEELING THAT SOME OF THESE STIPULATIONS WERE NEVER GONNA BE ABLE TO BE MET. UM, THE STORMWATER ISSUE IS, I DON'T AGREE THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO APPROVE HOW IT'S GONNA BE DESIGNED WHEN IT BECOMES A REQUEST FROM THE CITY, WHICH YOU WILL BE THEN WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK HERE FOR A DESIGN. UM, THIS SOLUTION IS STILL NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT NOT. SO, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE CISTERNS ARE, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DETAILS. I DON'T FEEL THE CISTERNS ARE A SOLUTION. UM, YOUR NUMBERS DON'T LOOK RIGHT TO ME ON THE STORMWATER OR ON THE, HOW YOU'RE PUSHING THE WATER UP TO RESEARCH, THEN YOU'RE MISSING SOME OF THAT. UM, I, I JUST WANNA TELL THE COMMISSIONERS [02:35:01] THAT I'M, I'M, I'M, I'M NOT SURE WHICH WAY I'LL GO TODAY. , WOULD IT, WOULD IT HELP THE COMMISSIONERS IF, YOU KNOW, WE, AND AND THIS IS THE THING, IT'S JUST SUCH A CONFUSING, I MEAN, STORMWATER DRAINAGE IS A VERY TECHNICAL, I MEAN, IT'S AN ENGINEERING ISSUE. IT'S ALSO A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURE ISSUE. IT'S ALSO A HISTORIC ISSUE. AND WE HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE FROM I THINK T C I IS HERE THAT WE'VE, UH, DISCUSSED THE PROJECT WITH AND WE'VE DISCUSSED WITH OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT GIVE GUIDANCE. THEY, THEY MAKE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS. AND THIS IS A, THIS IS, THIS IS, I THINK, IN AGREEMENT AND, AND I KNOW WE'VE HAD EMAILS WITH STAFF, UM, COULD STAFF CONFIRM THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH T C I AND, AND WAS, YOU KNOW, UM, REALLY ENCOURAGED WITH THE ADDITION OF A NEW CISTERN NEAR BUILDING FIVE. I CAN READ OUR FINDING WHY, IF Y'ALL WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS REVISED PROPOSED DRAINAGE PLAN INCLUDE AN ONSITE RAINWATER CATCHMENT SYSTEM, CISTERNS AND PERMEABLE PAVERS WITHIN THE DRIVEWAYS TO HANDLE ROOFTOP AND PAVEMENT DRAINAGE, CISTERNS AND PAVERS WILL BE DESIGNED TO CAPTURE A TWO YEAR STORM EVENT, OR APPROXIMATELY THE FIRST FOUR INCHES OF RAINFALL, RAINFALL IN EXCESS OF THE TWO YEAR STORM ARE IN AREAS THAT DO NOT DRAIN TO THE PAVERS WOULD BE CAPTURED BY DRAINS THROUGHOUT THE SITE AND CONVEYED TO THE PROPOSED ONSITE DETENTION POND AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE SITE. THE DETENTION POND WILL RELEASE WATER ALONG SATCH. ADDITIONALLY, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A SMALL WALL OR CURB TO DETER RUNOFF WATER FROM ENTERING THE ASAKIA FROM THE SITE. THE OVERALL DRAINAGE PLAN WOULD RESULT IN A REDUCTION OF RUNOFF ENTERING THE ASAKIA ADJACENT TO THE SITE WHEN COMPARED TO EXISTING CONDITIONS. THE PROPOSED DRAINAGE PLAN HAS BEEN REVIEWED BY T C I WHO CONCURS THAT THE, THAT THE DESIGN IS GENERALLY COMPLIANT WITH STORMWATER CODE REQUIREMENTS AND DOES NOT USE THE ASAKIA AS PART OF THE PROPOSED DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE. I I ALSO WANNA POINT OUT THAT T C I STAFF INDICATING THAT THEY BELIEVE IT MEETS STORMWATER REQUIREMENTS, DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN ENDORSEMENT. AND O H P CONTINUES TO NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT. IS THAT APPROVAL, COREY, BASED ON THE GARAGES ON THE FRONT FACING GARAGES, OR IS THAT BASED ON THE, UH, PLAN THAT T C I WHAT TCI I'S RECOMMENDATION? SO IT'S WRITTEN IN THE STAFF REPORT, SO ANYONE CAN REFERENCE IT. IT'S BASED ON THE FRONT LOADING GARAGES ON TRAIL. UM, IF THE COMMISSION MOVES TO APPROVE THE PROJECT, WE DO HAVE ADDED RECOMMENDATIONS TO CONSIDER. AND I BELIEVE THAT RECOMMENDATION IS FOR THE ADDITIONAL CISTERN ON, UH, NEAR BUILDING FIVE. SO, UM, I WASN'T HERE FOR THE LAST TIME THIS WAS VOTED AND, UH, I WAS OUTTA TOWN FOR A PROJECT, BUT, UH, SO I'M KIND OF SURPRISED IT'S COME BACK YET AGAIN. BUT, YOU KNOW, I APPRECIATE YOUR PERSISTENCE, UM, AND I APPRECIATE THE NEIGHBORHOODS, UH, DILIGENCE AS WELL AND ARTICULATION OF YOUR CONCERNS. UM, TO GO BACK TO THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN, BECAUSE THAT WAS AN ITEM THAT YOU BROUGHT UP. UH, WHILE THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A UNANIMOUS VOTE, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE WEREN'T RESERVATIONS OR THERE WEREN'T, UH, STIPULATIONS OR IDEAS THAT, UH, THAT WERE PUT FORTH THAT WE FELT THERE COULD BE IMPROVEMENTS ON THE, ON THE PROJECT. SO IT WASN'T LIKE A, A RINGING ENDORSEMENT OF WHERE YOU WERE AT. IT WAS A ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT YOU'D SUBSTANTIALLY DEVELOPED A PROJECT ENOUGH THAT IT WOULD WARRANTED FURTHER DEVELOPMENT TO SEE IF YOU COULD FULFILL THE, THE, UH, THE, UH, STIPULATIONS AND, AND DESIGN GUIDELINES. UM, I GREATLY APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE ON THE STORMWATER, UH, IN SINCE I HAVE SEEN THIS PROJECT LAST, BECAUSE MY CONCERN ON THAT WAS NOT FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT. IT WAS PURELY FROM A, FROM A RESOURCE MANAGEMENT STANDPOINT OF WHAT COULD BE THE IMPACTS TO THE ASAKIA. THAT'S, I THINK, REALLY WHAT OUR PURVIEW IS AS, AS PART OF THIS, THIS COMMISSION. BUT I'M GLAD SOME DUE DILIGENCE HAS BEEN DONE WITH THAT. I'M GLAD T C I HAS HAS, HAS WEIGHED IN AND THINGS HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST A LITTLE BIT MORE TECHNICALLY REALISTIC FOR THAT. UM, AND I THINK YOUR, YOUR AESTHETIC TREATMENTS OF THE, UH, OF THE DETENTION POND AT THE, THE NORTH, UH, EAST CORNER ARE MUCH IMPROVED OVER WHAT I'D SEEN LAST, THOUGH I THINK LARRY CLARK RAISES SOME GOOD QUESTIONS ABOUT ACCESS AND THE FACT THAT THERE'S NOW PLANTERS IN THERE, DOES THAT DISPLACE CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THE CAPACITY OF THE, OF THE, UH, DETENTION POND. BUT I'M ASSUMING ALL THOSE CALCULATIONS HAVE TAKEN THAT INTO, INTO EFFECT. UM, BUT STEPPING BACK, FOR ME, IT STILL REMAINS THAT THERE ARE SOME GUIDELINES THAT ARE, ARE, ARE NOT BEING MET HERE. AND PARTICULARLY [02:40:01] AS THE CHAIRMAN HAD MENTIONED, I THINK BUILDING FIVE REALLY NEEDS TO BE TWO STORIES TO BEING IN, IN KEEPING WITH THE, WITH THE, UH, THE GUIDELINES. AND TO BE THAT SORT OF TRANSITION, UH, THAT, UH, THAT COMMISSIONER BOWMAN TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FROM, FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SINCE YOU ARE KIND OF ON THE MARGINS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND GOING TO LARGER, UH, SCALE DEVELOPMENTS TO, TO THE NORTH OF YOU. I, I THINK THAT TRANSITION NEEDS TO OCCUR ON THAT TRAIL STREET, UH, BLOCK. AND, UH, UH, BUILDING SIX ACCOMPLISHES THAT, THAT I THINK BUILDING FIVE, UH, CAN, UH, UH, CAN, UM, UH, IMPROVE THE SITUATION AS WELL. UM, I CONCUR WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WHO HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THE FRONT FACING GARAGES. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT AVOID SOME OTHER PROBLEMS OF PARKING ON TRAIL STREET. UH, SO I'D RATHER RATHER HAVE THAT IT'S THE LESSER OF, OF SEVERAL EVILS. UM, SO ANYWAYS, THAT, THAT'S MY VIEW OF IT RIGHT NOW. I, I STILL THINK THAT THE FACT THAT, UH, BUILDING FIVE IS THREE STORIES IS KIND OF A DEAL BREAKER FOR ME. I, AND I, I JUST WANNA, I JUST, I JUST WANNA ASK THE QUESTION. YOU KNOW, WE, WE, WE HAD, AND I KNOW THERE ARE CHANGES AND THERE ARE SUGGESTIONS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, BUT THIS IS A PROCESS AND THEY'RE ALL, THEY'RE VIDEO RECORDED. I MEAN, IT'S, WE CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT ALL THE DIFFERENT CHANGING OPINIONS. UM, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DILIGENTLY FOLLOW THIS PROCESS. UH, MY BUSINESS PARTNER AND I, THIS IS OUR FIRST, THIS IS OUR FIRST REAL ESTATE VENTURE. I MEAN, THIS IS, WE'RE, WE'RE ENTREPRENEURS. WE, WE'VE, WE REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S, THAT'S I THINK GREAT FOR SAN ANTONIO, UM, ADD MORE HOUSING ESPECIALLY THAT'S ACCESSIBLE TO A PARK. AND, AND, AND THE QUESTION IS, WE GOT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH TWO STIPULATIONS. AND, AND THE, THE FIRST STIPULATION WAS 18 FOOT SETBACK OFF OF TRAIL STREET. THE SECOND STIPULATION WAS A 15 FOOT SETBACK OFF OF THE ASAKIA, AND IT WAS GIVEN UNANIM APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION WITH THOSE STIPULATIONS. AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, EVERYBODY'S OPINION CHANGES AND IN RETRO IN, IN THOUGHT AND REFLECTION. PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MINDS. PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR OPINIONS. BUT WHAT IS THE POINT OF CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, IF NOT TO SAY THIS IS A GO AHEAD FOR THE ECONOMICS OF THE PROJECT. THIS IS A GO AHEAD FOR THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT. WE HAD FOUR D R C MEETINGS WITH NUMEROUS MEMBERS WHERE, YOU KNOW, MASSING WAS PASSING AS A, AS A QUESTION, IS THERE A UNIT THAT YOU COULD REDUCE POTENTIALLY BY A STORY OR IS THERE SOMETHING, BUT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WAS GIVEN. WE WERE, WAS GIVEN, WE WERE, THAT'S WHEN YOU GO AND YOU TELL YOUR ARCHITECT, OKAY, WELL WE'VE GOTTEN THROUGH CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL NOW WE HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. WE'VE GOTTA RAISE MONEY, WE HAVE TO GO INTO DEBT. WE HAVE TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY DESIGNING THIS PROJECT. AND, AND, AND, AND WE, WE'VE BEEN GIVEN THIS GREEN LIGHT. I MEAN, FOR US, FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A UNANIMOUS APPROVAL FROM A BOARD IN SAN ANTONIO GIVING A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WHICH IS A, IT'S A PRO, I MEAN IT. AND SO WE GET THE GO AHEAD, WE GO, AND NOW, AND YOU KNOW, THERE, AND, AND IT'S JUST GONE ON SO LONG. IT'S GONE ON FOR OVER A YEAR AND A HALF. AND THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT COME UP. THERE ARE SO MANY NEW ITEMS THAT JUST GET THROWN AT US. AND, AND I JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO, UM, I, I THINK THE HEIGHT OF BUILDING FIVE HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP IN EVERY ONE OF THESE MEETINGS. AND I THINK IF YOU GO BACK AND AND REVIEW THE TAPE, YOU'LL SEE THAT THAT'S BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENT. SO I'VE, I I, I DO AGREE THOSE HAS BEEN THE, THE REASONS WHY THE DENIAL MOTION AND THE MOTIONS FOR PROOF HAVE BEEN FAILED. AND DENIAL MOTION ACTUALLY WAS APPROVED LAST TIME. UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER WAS NOT PRESENT, BUT THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WITH SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE NOT PRESENT TODAY. UM, I'M GONNA TRY ONE MOTION AND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF MY COMMISSIONERS WILL GO FOR THIS. AND THIS IS THE ONLY REASON WHY, IS BECAUSE WE HAVE TWO COMMISSIONERS THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE CASE, UH, FROM THE BEGINNING ARE NOT PRESENT TODAY. AND WE HAVE TWO COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE BRAND NEW THAT ARE JUST HEARING THIS CASE FIRST, FIRST TIME, AND THEY'VE NOW GOTTEN A BIG PRESENTATION. I MOVE THIS TO BE CONTINUED TO NEXT MEETING. [02:45:01] I HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? NO MOTION. I HAVE A NEW MOTION. UH, WELL, UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO JUST POINT OUT A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS JUST, UH, JUST TO BE, UH, BLACK AND WHITE ON WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE. SO FOR THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM STAFF, WE HAVE NINE RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, EIGHT OF WHICH, OR SEVEN OF WHICH YOU HAVE AGREED TO COMPLY WITH. THE EIGHTH IS THE ARCHEOLOGY, WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN ACCOMPLISHED. UM, AND HAS, UM, WE'VE HEARD FROM T C I THAT THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED, UM, TO, TO THE BEST POINT. IT CAN BE AT THIS POINT IN THE DESIGN TO WHAT WE'VE ASKED FOR. AND THEN THE, THE NINTH IS THE ADDITIONAL CISTERN, WHICH HAS ALSO BEEN ADDED INTO THAT SIDE PLAN. SO I KNOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME DESIGN RESERVATIONS ON THE PARTS OF SOME OF MY, UM, COLLEAGUES AND I, AND I APPRECIATE THAT. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME COMPROMISE ON THE HEIGHTS OF THESE BUILDINGS. THEY WERE FULL THREE STORIES AND WE BROUGHT THEM DOWN FOR THAT TWO AND A HALF TYPE STORY ON THE BUILDING. FIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE, UM, THE MASSING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN SCHEMATIC, UH, THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. AND THEN WE DID REDUCE BUILDING SIX TO TWO STORIES. SO THERE HAS BEEN COMPROMISE ON THE SIDE OF THE DEVELOPER. SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS. I'LL SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. A NAY, NAY. ROLL CALL GIBBS, NAYYY, CARPENTER, NAY, VELASQUEZ, NAY, ZER. AY, UM, BOWMAN. YEAH. UM, AREOLA, A GROUP A NAY, UH, MARTINEZ FLORES, NAY FERNANDEZ, NAY MOTION FAILS. CAN WE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE APPLICANT WITHDRAW AND COME BACK NEXT WEEK? I MEAN, THE APPLICANT CAN REQUEST A POSTPONEMENT. UM, IF THERE WAS WITHDRAWAL, WE WOULD NEED A NEW APPLICATION THAT MEETS THE APPLICATION DEADLINE SCHEDULE. I THINK THE APPLICANT KNOWS EVERY, ALMOST, UM, BESIDES THE NEW COMMISSIONERS, YOU KNOW, OUR POINT OF VIEW, UM, AND I THINK WE'VE GONE BACK MANY, MANY TIMES. I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING THAT A WHOLE NEW PRESENTATION IS NEEDED. UM, I REALLY, REALLY HAVE A FEELING THAT YOU NEED TO DO SOME BIG CHANGES IN YOUR PROJECT TO BE ABLE TO GET AN APPROVAL HERE. THERE CHANGES THAT MAYBE ALSO WE'LL DRAW A LITTLE BIT MORE AGREEMENT FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE, WE CANNOT DO THAT. IT, IT'S, IT'S, WE'VE TRIED TO FOLLOW THIS PROCESS WITH AS MUCH INTEGRITY AS WE CAN. WE'VE TRIED TO PARRY OFF. THERE ARE SO MANY, SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE REACHED OUT. WE'VE TRIED TO, WE'VE TRIED TO JUST DILIGENTLY FOLLOW THIS PROCESS. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE, FOR EXAMPLE, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER'S SUGGESTIONS, A LOT OF THEM WE'VE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. THIS, THIS IS REALLY THE ONLY ONE THAT I THINK WE'VE REALLY DISAGREED ON. AND, AND I THINK IT'S, IT'S SORT OF A 50 50. UM, WE, WE WORKED WITH, I REMEMBER, I REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY COMMISSIONER CARPENTER SAID, THESE MODERN LOOKING TOWN HOMES ARE URBAN TOWN HOMES. HOW CAN THEY LOOK MORE RURAL? HOW CAN THEY INTEGRATE INTO THE COMMUNITY? AND SO WE TOTALLY CHANGED THE DESIGN. UM, WE GOT UNANIMOUS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UM, INCLUDING, INCLUDING FROM MANY, I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANNA MAKE OF THE COMMISSIONERS' CASE. SO THE MOTION TO APPROVE FAILED A MOTION LIKE THAT CANNOT BE DONE AGAIN TODAY. SO EITHER WE DO ANOTHER MOTION OR THE APPLICANT MAKES A DECISION. CORRECT. I SUGGEST THAT YOU TALK TO STAFF AND SEE WHAT YOUR NEXT STEPS MIGHT BE. UH, I, I WANTED CAN, CAN I ADD, ADD SOME COMMENTS FOR THE APPLICANT? THE, THE, THE ONE CONVERSATION THAT COMES UP OVER AND OVER AND OVER, LIKE, I'M ONE OF THE NEW, UH, COMMISSIONERS THAT [02:50:01] DON'T HAVE A LOT OF BACKGROUND, BUT UH, JUST FROM THAT FRESH PLACE, RIGHT? THE DENSITY CA CAME UP OVER AND OVER AND OVER, RIGHT? SO Y'ALL HAVE HAD MEETINGS. Y'ALL TALKED ABOUT HAVING MEETINGS TOGETHER WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. THIS IS LIKE A NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING BECAUSE Y'ALL ARE HERE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S HERE, AND, AND, AND WE CAN HEAR WHAT YOUR REAL OPINIONS ARE TOGETHER, YOUR OPINIONS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S OPINIONS. JUST AS IF WE WERE SITTING IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING AND DENSITY COMES UP OVER AND OVER. I WAS LOOKING AT THE PLAN, AND I THINK I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT EACH UNIT IS THE UNIT. IT'S NOT ONE UNIT STACKED ON TOP OF ANOTHER UNIT. THERE'S 24 UNITS. AND IN, IN INSIDE OF TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY IT COMES BACK WITH ALL, ALL THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, BEING ADDRESSED, EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE THING, THE DENSITY JUST TO GIVE YOU FOOD FOR THOUGHT. AND, AND IF, IF YOU'VE GOT A REWORK OR LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE, WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING THAT WE SET SHERRY SEEMS TO BE A BIT OF A CLEAR TRANSITION. IT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY. THE TRAIL SIDE SEEMS TO BE A, A ALMOST A MANDATORY TRANSITION JUST IN KIND OF A COMMON SENSE CRITERIA. THE PSYCHIA SIDE, Y'ALL HAVE REALLY DONE A LOT OF WORK ON, ON DEALING WITH HOW YOU'LL ADDRESS WATER FLOW. AND I'M SURE WITH CISTERNS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT HOW YOU GET THE WATER TO 'EM, WELL, YOU'LL HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT, RIGHT? BUT THE DENSITY SEEMS THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE GOING TO A ONE STORY ENVIRONMENT. SO IT'S ASKING YOU TO KIND OF GROW, HOWEVER IT IS THAT YOU DO THAT GRADUALLY. AND YOUR REAL OPPORTUNITY TO BE MORE OR LESS THE WAY THAT YOU'RE PRESENTED IS OVER ON ATCH. UM, AS FAR AS THE FRONT, UH, UH, GARAGE DOORS ARE, ARE CONCERNED WHEN YOU GO DOWN TRAIL THERE, THERE ARE GARAGE DOORS RIGHT THERE ON TRAIL ALREADY, RIGHT? THAT THE BACKS OF GARAGES. SO IN A WAY IT KIND OF, KIND OF GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY OFF OF, OFF OF THE IDEA THAT THERE'S AN EXISTING CONDITION, BUT THE MASSING ASPECT OF IT, UM, IT SEEMS TO BE THE ONE THING THAT ISN'T DEALT WITH THAT, THAT, THAT THE PLAN CAME BACK AND THERE'S, THERE IT IS ALMOST AS IF IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT HEARD OR IF THAT'S THE STANDOFF, THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY'S STANDING OFF ON IS YOUR DENSITY VERSUS, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT, UH, IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONSIDERS OUTSIDE OF THE CHARACTER OF THAT HISTORIC AREA, RIGHT? SO GOING BACK AND THEN, AND THEN I, I THINK RETURNING, UM, THE DENSITY IS THE ONE THING THAT I SEE TALKED AROUND THERE. THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING THAT I'VE HEARD THAT HAS ADDRESSED PROBABLY THE MOST COMPLICATED ASPECT OF IT, WHICH IS THAT THE DENSITY, IF, AND I DO, I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. I KNOW YOU'RE REALLY, I CAN TELL YOU'RE REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY OF THIS PROJECT. 'CAUSE YOU'RE A NEW MEMBER OF THIS BOARD AND WE'VE, WE'VE HAD THE, WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION, WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION SO MANY TIMES BACK AND FORTH. UM, THE BIGGEST, THE BIGGEST, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE SITE, THIS SITE'S BEEN OWNED BY THE SAME PROPERTY OWNER FOR OVER 30 YEARS. UH, THE RIVER ROAD HISTORIC DISTRICT WAS, WAS CREATED IN, I THINK 2012, 2010. 2010 . SO THIS OWNER'S HAD THIS PROPERTY FOR 30 YEARS. IT'S BEEN ZONED MULTI-FAMILY, 33 UNITS PER ACRE. IT'S NEXT TO MULTI-FAMILY, 33 PROPERTIES. IT'S ACROSS FROM A MULTI-FAMILY, 50 ZONED PROPERTY. THE, THE MULTIFAMILY 33 ALLOWS 45 FEET OF HEIGHT UP, YOU KNOW, FOUR STORIES, 45 FEET OF HEIGHT. THAT'S AN, THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER STORY ABOUT ALL OF OUR, WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IN OUR PLAN. EXCUSE ME, SIR, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS IN NUMERABLE TIMES AND OVER AN HOUR AND A HALF TODAY WE HAVE 14 MORE CASES TO DEAL WITH. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING WITH SOME OFF, UH, YOU KNOW, A D R C WHERE WE CAN DISCUSS THIS MORE, UH, ONE-ON-ONE. UH, WE'VE MADE A, UH, MOTION IN ITS PAST FOR DENIAL. UM, AND SO AT THIS POINT I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON WITH THE AGENDA. COULD WE JUST, THE MOTION HAS NOT BEEN MADE. THERE HASN'T BEEN THAT MOTION YET, BUT IT PROBABLY IS PROBABLY THE ONLY MOTION POINT OF ORDER THERE HAS TECHNICALLY NOT BEEN AN ACTION ON THIS ITEM. SO IF THERE'S NO ACTION TAKEN, THE ITEM IS AUTOMATICALLY CONTINUED. AND, AND JUST, I WOULD LIKE TO JUST HAVE ONE, UH, THING THAT I ADD TO THIS JUST FOR MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, THAT IS JUST FOR, UM, PROCESS, I GUESS SAKE. UM, WHENEVER WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS IN CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, UM, [02:55:01] ONE OF THE COMMENTS WAS THE COMMENT ABOUT TRAIL STREET. WE TALKED ABOUT TWO STORIES, TWO AND A HALF STORIES, HOW IT RELATES WITH THE U D C TO THE, YOU KNOW, ONE AND A HALF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ITS NEIGHBORS. WE, WE TALKED THROUGH THAT BEFORE. WE DID MAKE THAT UNANIMOUS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. SO I JUST, I JUST WANNA PUT THAT AS FOOD FOR THOUGHT THAT, THAT WAS A CONVERSATION THAT WE DID HAVE. AND WE DID ALL APPROVE THIS OVER THEIR PREVIOUS DESIGN. THERE WERE SOME CHANGES THAT WERE MADE TO THIS BECAUSE OF THAT T TURNAROUND. BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DID HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT THE APPROVAL OF THIS WITH THOSE FALSE THREE STORY DESIGNS. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL TAKE THAT IN INTO CONSIDERATION. 'CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S GONNA BE THE, THIS NEW STICKING POINT ON THIS DESIGN. SO I, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER HAPPENS TODAY, I MEAN, IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT GETTING PASSED TODAY, BUT THAT'S JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT FAR FROM MY, UM, UNDERSTANDING OF THAT. SO NO ACTION HAS BEEN TAKEN. DO WE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? DO WE NEED TO MAKE ANOTHER MOTION? IF WE HAVE NO ACTION, THEN IT'S CONTINUED TO THE NEXT MEETING, IT'D AUTOMATICALLY BE CONTINUED, BUT CERTAINLY WE'LL LOOK FOR A MOTION IF, IF ANYBODY FEELS THE, I MEAN, A MOTION COULD ALSO BE TOO FORMALLY POSTPONED. YOU DID THAT MOTION RIGHT AND IT FAILED. WELL, IF I DON'T HAVE A MOTION, THEN UH, THE CASE WILL CONTINUE, THEN I MAKE A MOTION TO CONTINUE TO THE NEXT HEARING. I HAVE A MOTION TO CONTINUE. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. SO HOLD ON. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S LEGAL 'CAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY THE SAME MOTION. YOU NEVER HAD A SECOND THOUGH. SO IF THERE'S A SECOND, THEN WE CAN DO IT. OKAY. HAVE A MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSE SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. JUST TO TELL THE APPLICANT THAT IF HE COMES BACK WITH THE SAME THING, IT'S PROBABLY NOT BECAUSE I, I DO SUGGEST THE APPLICANT THAT EITHER, YOU KNOW, RECONSIDER MAKE SOME CHANGES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. [B-24 19-8153 Address/Description: 914 N PINE ST, 918 N PINEHDRC Case No.: 2019-356Historic District Name: Dignowity HillApplicant: David Ericsson/Pine 14 & Pine 18 LLCRequest: Construction of a 1-story, residential structure at 918 N Pineand 2, 1-story, rear accessory structure at 914 N PineCity Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 24 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 3 56, 9 14 AND NINE 18 NORTH PINE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE CONSTRUCT, A ONE STORY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE TO FEATURE OCCUPIED ATTIC SPACE AT NINE 18 NORTH PINE TO FRONT NORTH PINE. AND TWO, TO CONSTRUCT TWO REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES TO BE LOCATED AT THE REAR OF THE LOT AT NINE 14 NORTH PINE. ONE STRUCTURE IS TO FEATURE A SIDE GABLED ROOF AND ONE STRUCTURE IS TO FEATURE A FLAT ROOF. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS ONE A THROUGH ONE J. THERE ARE STAFF STIPULATIONS FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO BASED ON FINDINGS TWO A THROUGH TWO H. ALSO WITH STIPULATIONS, THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE, DAVID ERICKSON. UM, OWNER OF NINE, 14 AND 19, UH, PINE STREET. ALRIGHT, LET'S GO. ALL RIGHT, SO, UH, HAD THIS ACTUALLY ? YEAH, THE ONLY STIPULATIONS, UM, ON THE FINDINGS, UM, WHERE THE, THERE'S AN, AN REQUEST FOR DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS. UM, ON THE, THERE'S A ELEVATION ON THE LAST PAGE OF THIS PRESENTATION. 20 OR 28. YEAH, HERE. UM, THERE ARE TWO WINDOWS THAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT SIDE ON THESE TWO RIGHT ELEVATIONS ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH, THOSE THIN WINDOWS. UM, I'M TRYING TO DO A FLOOR TO CEILING WINDOW PORTION THERE AND DOING A DOUBLE HUNG AT THIS SLIVER, THIS THIN OF A DIMENSION, UM, DIDN'T SEEM APPROPRIATE FOR A DOUBLE HUNG. SO I'D LIKE TO KEEP THE WINDOWS I HAVE THERE IF POSSIBLE. UM, WORKED REALLY HARD TO GET THE FRONT ELEVATION TO BE LESS MODERN. I WENT THROUGH THE, I MET WITH THE D R C, WENT TO A CONCEPTUAL THAT GOT A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND HAVE INCLUDED SOME OF THE PREVIOUS ITERATIONS THAT WE'VE WORKED ON TOGETHER FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS. [03:00:01] ALL THE OTHER STAFF STIPULATIONS YOU'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH? WELL, THERE'S ALSO, THERE WAS A COMMENT ABOUT REDUCTION OF FOOTPRINT, BUT WE WENT OVER THAT IN THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL PHASE THAT I'VE REDUCED A FOOTPRINT TO WHAT I COULD DO BASED OFF OF THE PREVIOUS DESIGN AND BREAKING UP THE MASSING TO BE APPROPRIATE NEXT TO THIS STRANGE ONE-OFF OF THE LARGE INDUSTRIAL BUILDING ON THE SITE PLAN. IF YOU GO TO, YEAH, SO NINE 18 NORTH PINE, UM, WORKED PRETTY HARD TO GET ENOUGH GREEN SPACE IN BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS. I HAVE A 900 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT, UH, FOR THE BACK ON NINE 14, A 550 FOOT SQUARE, 5,550 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT FOR THE WORKSHOP BUILDING, AND THEN AN 1100 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT FOR THE NINE 18 BUILDING. AND THEY ALL MET THE 40% OF THE 40% RATIO, UM, THAT, OF THE MA PRIMARY STRUCTURE. SO I'M TRYING TO MAKE THESE SECONDARY DWELLINGS. UM, BUT YEAH, SO I WORK PRETTY HARD ON THOSE MASSING BACK AND FORTH WITH EVERYONE. SO THAT'S THE OTHER ONE I DON'T, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME WITH. SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY MEET THE 40% NOW THEY MEET, BUT THEY STILL ASK FOR AN OVERALL REDUCTION IN FOOTPRINT. AND I COULD MAYBE CLARIFY SOME INDIVIDUALLY, EACH INDIVIDUAL STRUCTURE MEETS WHAT THE GUIDELINES ASK FOR. COMBINED, THEY DON'T. UM, HOWEVER, THE OVERALL, THE PROPERTY AND THE SITE IS RELATIVELY LARGE, SO THERE MAY BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE SITE. YOU HAD DISCUSSED THAT AT CONCEPTUAL AND WE'RE OKAY WITH IT. YEAH. ALSO PROVIDE A BIT OF CLARIFICATION. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A NUMBER OF, UH, CONTEMPORARY ADMINISTRATION PATTERNS. UM, GENERALLY WHAT STAFF IS ASKING FOR, UM, NOTING THE, THE WINDOW NOTING THE FACADE OPENINGS THAT THE APPLICANTS PROPOSED A TRADITIONALLY PROPORTIONED WINDOW AND PROFILED WINDOW MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE. UM, THEREFORE THAT'S WHY STAFF HAS NOTED THAT IN A LOCATION WHERE A WINDOW TRADITIONALLY WOULD BE LOCATED, A ONE OVER ONE WINDOW WOULD MAKE SENSE. UM, THAT REALLY IS ONLY PROBABLY ONE LOCATION AND IT'S THESE TWO WINDOWS. SO THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICANT IS SPECIFICALLY, UM, NOT ADHERING TO OR NOT AGREEING TO. AND YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE, UH, STIPULATION ABOUT THE EXPOSED PROFILE FOUR INCHES, UH, FOR THE SIDING AND ALL THAT. OKAY. YEAH, I WANTED, I WANTED EIGHT OR SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT LARGER, BUT AT THIS POINT IT'S FINE. FOUR INCHES, IT'S GREAT. SURE. OKAY. SO, UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS TWO, THREE AND FIVE SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. HOLD ON. UM, I, IS THAT ITEM NUMBER ONE AND TWO OR, YEAH, SO, UH, LET ME, LET ME RETRACT THAT. SORRY. UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS 2, 3, 4, AND FIVE. UH, I'LL, I'LL SECOND THAT. I'M SORRY. CAN WE GET CLARIFICATION ONE MORE TIME? YEP. ITEM NUMBER ONE AND ITEM NUMBER TWO. AND THEY HAVE BOTH, THEY ALL HAVE STIPULATIONS ONE THROUGH. SO WE JUST DISCUSSED THE REDUCTION OF THE FOOTPRINT AND STAFF SAID THAT THEY FELT BECAUSE OF THE SIZE THAT OF THE LOT, THAT, THAT, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT NECESSARY. SO THEREFORE I OMITTED STAFF STIPULATION NUMBER ONE IN MY MOTION. NO, THAT'S ON ITEM NUMBER TWO. WHAT ABOUT ITEM NUMBER ONE? LIKE THE ONE THAT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW? ONE. OH, OKAY. A WHOLE NOTHER ITEM HERE. UH, LET'S TRY AGAIN, LET'S TRY SENATOR CARPENTER, CAN YOU MIND, UH, SPEAKING CLOSER TO THE MICROPHONE AS WELL? OKAY, SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS ONE, UH, 0.1, 1.2, 1.3 AND STAFF STIPULATIONS 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, AND 2.5. AND I'LL SECOND MOTION A SECOND. I, I THOUGHT WE HAD DISCUSSED THE WINDOWS DISCUSSION. CAN'T BE 2.3 RIGHT? DOUBLE HUNG WINDOW THING. SO TO, I THINK TO MAYBE PROVIDE A LITTLE CLARIFICATION FOR ITEM ONE. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO STIPULATION ONE AND STIPULATION THREE. ITEM TWO IS IN REGARDS TO THE DOUBLE HUNG ONE OVER ONE WOOD OR ALUMINUM CLAD WINDOW, WHICH THE COMMISSION HAS THROWN OUT. UH, [03:05:01] SO FOR ITEM ONE, STIPULATIONS ONE AND THREE FOR ITEM TWO, STIPULATION THREE, FOUR, AND FIVE, I DON'T KNOW FOR THE WINDOW AS IT IS, IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU? FOR ITEM TWO, STIPULATION ONE HAS BEEN THROWN OUT. THE I THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO STIPULATION TWO, STIPULATION THREE HAS BEEN THROWN OUT. THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO STIPULATION FOUR AND THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO STIPULATION FIVE. OKAY, LET'S TRY THIS ONE MORE TIME. SO MOVE IS APPROVED, UH, AS, AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS ONE, ONE AND ONE THREE AND STAFF STIPULATIONS 2, 2, 2 4 AND TWO FIVE. AND SAME THE SECOND. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT A QUESTION. OKAY. SECOND, UH, ON, ON THE PROFILE, THE, THE FOUR VERSUS THE EIGHT? YEAH. UM, FROM A, FROM YOUR, YOU KNOW, DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, IS IT EIGHT BECAUSE, UM, IT'S A BETTER DESIGN ELEMENT FOR YOU? YEAH. UH, IS IT IT'S AN ENHANCEMENT. YEAH, BECAUSE I'M LOOKING AT ONE OF THE PICTURES HERE THAT SHOWS A, A, A HORIZONTAL BOARD AND AN OLD BUILDING THAT, THAT YOU'RE DRAWING FROM, I THINK. AND, AND THE, THE WOOD PIECES ARE MUCH BIGGER THAN, YEAH. AND THAT'S A LOG STRUCTURE AND THAT'S MAINLY A DIAGRAM FOR THAT PORCH CUTOUT VOLUME. MM-HMM. . UM, THE ONLY REASON I WANTED TO GO TO AN EIGHT INCH VERSUS A FOUR INCH WAS BECAUSE BY TAKING A TRADITIONAL FORM AND ABSTRACTING IT TO A MODERN DAY TYPOLOGY, I WANTED TO HAVE A DIFFERENT READING. SO IT DIDN'T LOOK EXACTLY LIKE MATCHY MATCHY WITH THE BUILDING NEXT DOOR, WHICH IS A FOUR INCH PROFILE. SO BY GOING ONE SCALE UP, BECAUSE THIS BUILDING HAS ONE SCALE, ONE LEVEL, LESS OF DETAIL 'CAUSE IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE REDUCED AND MORE RED LIKE A SILHOUETTE THAN WHAT WE USED TO HAVE WITH THE TRADITIONAL CRAFT OF THESE FOLK VICTORIAN HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I THOUGHT AN EIGHT INCH PROFILE WOULD JUST HELP THE PROJECT READ AS A, AS A NEXT GENERATION OF THIS TYPE, BUT STILL PART OF THE SAME FAMILY. BUT I DON'T, ONE OF, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY, WHY I'M ASKING IS BECAUSE I, I CAN, I CAN SEE A, A PARTICULAR BALANCE IN THE DESIGN AND I WOULD APPEAL TO FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO CONSIDER THE THE DESIGN ACCOMPLISHMENT. AND THAT, UH, IF IT, IF IT, IF IT ISN'T ALLOWED TO EXIST, THEN WE MAY HAVE GOTTEN IN THE WAY OF, OF A, OF A FORM THAT THAT SHOULD IT MULTIPLY IN THE FUTURE COULD BE REALLY A, AN ENHANCEMENT TO TELLING THE STORY OF THE HISTORIC CONTEXT. IT, IT ALSO KIND OF RELATES TO THE OLD, THE OLD BUILDING THAT THEY'RE DRAWING FROM AS WELL. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT THAT WOULD BE ASKING FOR A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, BUT, WELL, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND USING FOUR INCH. SO YEAH, THAT DIDN'T GO UNCONSIDERED. AND I UNDERSTAND THE, THE SCALE GAME THAT YOU'RE PLAYING YEAH. TO DISTINGUISH IT. BUT I FEEL LIKE THIS IS GONNA BE INDISTINGUISHABLY. I MEAN THIS IS BE DISTINGUISHABLY DIFFERENT FROM THE HISTORIC THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE EVERY VARIABLE. SURE, FOR SURE. ACHIEVE, ACHIEVE THAT ARTISTIC END. THERE'S LIKE JUST ONE CARLOS JIMENEZ HOUSE THAT HAD A NICE EIGHT INCH PROFILE, BUT I'M OKAY WITH THE FOUR INCH. I DON'T WANNA COMPLICATE IT. THERE'S OTHER CASES I'LL, I'LL WHO WITH THE FOUR? DO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS IN HELPING TO CRAFT THAT MOTION. [B-25 19-8153 Address/Description: 2914 PLEASANTON RDHDRC Case No.: 2019-611Applicant: Rene Ruiz/Law Office of Rene D Ruiz, PCRequest: Removal of historic landmark designationCity Council Dist.: 3] AGENDA ITEM B 25 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 11, UH, 29 14 PLEASANTON ROAD. THE APPLICANT SEEKS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION TO REMOVE HISTORIC DESIGNATION FROM THE PROPERTY AT 29 14 PLEASANTON ROAD STAFF FINDS THERE IS NO NEW AND COMPELLING EVIDENCE FOR REMOVAL OF DESIGNATION FOR THE PROPERTY BASED ON FINDINGS B AND C STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL OF THE REQUEST FOR REMOVAL OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION. UM, WE CAN HAVE THE PROPERTY OWNER OR REPRESENTATIVE UP AT THIS TIME. WE ALSO HAVE A COUPLE OF CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. GOOD AFTERNOON, RENEE RUIZ REPRESENTING THE, UH, THE APPLICANT. SHALL I PROCEED? YES, PLEASE. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO THERE'S THE PICTURE OF THE PROPERTY. UH, IT WAS, UH, IT'S A ONE-OFF PROPERTY THAT WAS DESIGNATED AS HISTORIC, UH, DESIGNATION IN 2002. IT WAS INITIATED BY THE OWNER AT THE TIME WHO WAS SEEKING A TAX EXEMPTION SO THAT, UH, THEY COULD GET THE DESIGN, UH, THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT WITH CERTAIN RENOVATIONS THAT WERE MADE TO THE PROPERTY. IT IS NOT IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT IS NOT SURROUNDED BY ANY OTHER HISTORIC PROPERTIES WITH THAT DESIGNATION. UM, MY CLIENT ACQUIRED THE PROPERTY IN 2007 AND HE DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME THAT IT WAS HISTORIC, UH, DESIGNATION. [03:10:01] HE DIDN'T FIND OUT UNTIL LAST YEAR UNTIL HE WANTED TO PUT UP A POLE SIGN THAT WOULD ADVERTISE HIS LAW, HIS FULL SERVICE LAW PRACTICE THAT IS IN THAT BUILDING. UM, THE APPLICATION WAS DENIED AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME HE LEARNED THAT THE PROPERTY HAD BEEN DESIGNATED HISTORIC. WE WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE APPLICATION AS WELL AS THE RULES THAT WERE IN EFFECT CITY ORDINANCE IN EFFECT AT THE TIME. AND WE DISCOVERED THAT THE CITY DID NOT COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE, IN EFFECT AT THE TIME, IN THE SENSE THAT IT REQUIRES A PROPERTY THAT HAS BEEN DESIGNATED AS HISTORIC TO, UM, UH, FOR, UH, OFFICIAL DOCUMENT TO BE FILED IN THE OFFICIAL PUBLIC RECORDS OF BEXAR COUNTY SO THAT A, ANY PROSPECTIVE PURCHASER WOULD BE PUT ON NOTICE OF THE FACT THAT IT WAS HISTORIC PROPERTY THAT WAS NOT DONE UNTIL 2014, AND THAT'S IN THE PACKET SEVEN YEARS AFTER HE ACQUIRED THE PROPERTY. UH, THE OTHER THING IS THAT THE ORDINANCE, IN EFFECT AT THE TIME, REQUIRED THAT B C A UPDATE THEIR RECORDS SO THAT IT BE HISTORIC, DESIGNATED HISTORIC AS MY HOME IS. BUT THIS WAS NOT DONE AT THE PROPERTY, UH, FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. HE DIDN'T FIND OUT UNTIL HE HAD ACQUIRED THE SIGN, UH, ASSUMED THAT HE WAS C TWO, HE WOULD QUALIFY UNDER THE POLE SIGN ORDINANCE SUBMITTED THE APPLICATION AND IT WAS DENIED. SO THAT'S HOW WE DISCOVERED, UM, THE, THE PROBLEM. I WANNA ALSO POINT OUT, GOING BACK TO THE OTHER PHOTO OF THE GENERAL LAYOUT HE ACQUIRED AT THE SAME TIME THE PROPERTY THAT IS BEHIND THE VERY LARGE PROPERTY THERE. AND THAT INFORMATION IS IN THANK YOU IN THE, UH, PACKET THAT IS NOT DESIGNATED HISTORIC, BUT HE ACQUIRED BOTH AT THE SAME TIME IN 2007 WITH THE INTENT TO BE ABLE TO FULLY DEVELOP THAT PROPERTY FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES AT C TWO NA. AND, UH, HE'S VERY CONCERNED ABOUT HIS ABILITY NOT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT NOW BECAUSE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO MAXIMIZE THE FULL USE OF HIS C TWO, UH, STATUS. SO WE LOOKED AT THE ORDINANCE, AND THE ORDINANCE IN FACT DOES PROVIDE, UH, AUTHORIZATION FOR THE CITY COUNCIL UPON RECOMMENDATION BY THIS COMMISSION TO DE-DESIGNATE THE PROPERTY. AND SO THAT IN AND OF ITSELF, I UNDERSTAND DE DESIGNATION IS PROBABLY FROWNED ON HERE, BUT, UH, THAT ORDINANCE IS THERE FOR A REASON AND IT'S THERE BECAUSE THINGS CHANGE, CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE, UH, THE ENVIRONMENT CHANGES AND THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY CHANGE. IN THIS CASE, WHAT THE STATUTE, UH, THE ORDINANCE SAYS IS THAT, UM, IT CAN BE DE DE DESIGNATED ON A TWO-PRONGED TEST, UH, BASED UPON NEW AND COMPELLING EVIDENCE, ONE AND TWO NEGATIVE EVALUATION ACCORDING TO THE SAME CRITERIA AND FOLLOWING THE SAME PROCEDURE SET FORTH FOR DESIGNATION. OUR ARGUMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE NEW AND COMPELLING EVIDENCE, I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT THE CITY DIDN'T COMPLY WITH THE RECORDATION REQUIREMENTS OF ITS ORDINANCE. AND, UH, MY, MY CLIENT HAD NO NOTICE OF THE FACT THAT THE PROPERTY HAD BEEN DE DESIGNATED HISTORIC AND HE'S NOT ABLE TO MAKE FULL USE OF ITS C TWO STATUS. THE OTHER THING THAT I WOULD SAY, IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER PICTURES OF THE PROPERTY, THAT CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED, UH, SUCH THAT WHATEVER HISTORIC QUALITY MAY HAVE EXISTED BACK IN 2002 HAS BEEN LOST. AND THAT'S DUE TO NO FAULT OF MY CLIENT. IT'S JUST THE WAY THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS GROWN UP. IT'S SURROUNDED BY VERY HUGE, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, C P S ENERGY PUT A STEEL MONOPOLE, HIGH ELECTRIC, UH, RIGHT AND CENTER OF THE, OF THE SIDEWALK OF THE PROPERTY, AND IT'S SURROUNDED TO THE RIGHT BY A TIRE SHOP. AND, UH, TO THE LEFT A BUNCH OF HUGE SIGNS. AND IT IS HONESTLY THE LEAST VISIBLE STRUCTURE ON THAT VERY BUSY STREET. SO WE THINK THAT IS ALSO A NEW AND COMPELLING EVIDENCE. AND FINALLY, THE REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFYING A HISTORIC DESIGNATION HAVE CHANGED AT THE TIME. IN 2002, THE PROPERTY ONLY HAD TO MEET ONE CRITERIA. NOW IT MUST MEET THREE, WHICH GETS US INTO THE SECOND PRONG OF THE, UM, OF THE ORDINANCE, WHICH IS, UH, THAT PART BEING NEGATIVE EVALUATION ACCORDING TO THE SAME CRITERIA, FOLLOWING THE SAME PROCEDURE SET FORTH HERE IN FOR DESIGNATION. IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, WHAT STAFF HAS PROVIDED, IT'S ACTUALLY VERY, UH, VERY INTERESTING, UH, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IN TERMS OF, UH, THEY'RE POINTING TO CRITERIA THREE, FIVE, AND 13 AS, UM, AS, UH, THAT THE, THAT THIS PROPERTY WOULD QUALIFY FOR HISTORIC DESIGNATION. UH, NUMBER THREE IS THAT IT'S, I IT'S IDENTIFICATION WITH A PERSON WHO SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY, COUNTY, STATE, OR NATION. AND WHAT IS STATED IS THAT IT'S THE HOME OF LEROY BARBIE, FOUNDER OF BARBIE HATCHERY, THE FIRST CHICK HATCHERY IN BEAR COUNTY, FOUNDED IN 1924. WHEN I GOOGLED LEROY BARBIE, NOTHING CAME UP. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE THE HATCHERY THERE. I'M SURE HE DID. IT'S INTERESTING THAT HIS DEED THOUGH, SAID HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, UM, I, I THINK THAT MISSES THE POINT. YES, HE MAY BE A PERSON OF INTEREST, BUT THERE'S NOTHING HERE THAT CONNECTS THE DOTS ABOUT HOW MR. BARBIE SIGNIFICANTLY CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY, THE COUNTY, THE STATE, OR THEIR NATION. THERE'S NO EVIDENCE IN HERE AND THERE'S NO ASSERTION THAT IN FACT THAT THAT'S HAPPENED. UM, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FIFTH CRITERIA, IT'S EMBODIMENT OF DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTICS OF AN ARCHITECTURAL STYLE VALUABLE FOR THE STUDY OF A PERIOD TYPE METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION OR USE OF INDIGENOUS MATERIALS. THIS IS WHAT THEY ACTUALLY CITED IN 2002 WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY DESIGNATED THIS HISTORIC. AND THE STAFF IS POINTING [03:15:01] OUT THAT THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF A SPANISH REVIVAL RESIDENT. UM, I THINK THE ONLY OBVIOUS THING THAT STRIKES ME IS THE SPANISH ROOF TILE. UM, THE, AND I ALSO NOTE THAT AT THE TIME, IF YOU LOOK AT THE 2002 APPLICATION THAT WAS NOT CITED, THAT IT WAS A BASIS OF A SPANISH REVIVAL NCE, BUT THE 13TH CRITERIA BEARS AN IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER DISTINCTIVE STRUCTURE SITES OR AREAS. LET'S JUST STOP RIGHT THERE. UH, WHAT STAFF IS TELLING US IS THAT THE RESIDENCE IS DIRECTLY NORTH OF BARBIE'S, HATCHERY BUILDINGS, WHICH REMAIN INTACT AND ON SITE AS A HERNANDEZ TIRE SHOP. CAN WE GET A PICTURE OF THAT? UH, THAT'S OUR ADJACENT NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH. IT'S THERE. UH, AT ANY RATE, I DON'T, I THINK WE MISSED THE POINT HERE. WHAT THE CRITERIA SAYS IS THAT IT BEARS IT BEING THE PROPERTY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT I'M TRYING TO REQUEST BE DE DESIGNATED. IT BEARS AN IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER DISTINCTIVE STRUCTURE SITES OR AREAS. SO THAT OTHER IS THE MARTINEZ TIRE SHOP, OF WHICH THERE IS NOTHING, UM, A DISTINCTIVE ABOUT IT, UH, IN ANY REGARD, IF WE CAN GET A PICTURE THERE. UM, FURTHERMORE, IT ALSO, THE SECOND PART OF THAT PRONG SAYS THAT NOT ONLY DOES THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION HAVE TO HAVE AN IMPORTANT AND SIGNIFICANT RELATIONSHIP TO ANOTHER DISTINCTIVE STRUCTURE SITE OR AREA, WHICH IN THIS CASE IT DOESN'T, BUT IT SAYS EITHER AS AN IMPORTANT COLLECTION OF PROPERTIES OR ARCHITECTURAL STYLE OR CRAFTSMANSHIP WITH FEW INTRUSIONS, OR BY CONTRIBUTING TO THE OVERALL CHARACTER OF THE AREA ACCORDING TO THE PLAN BASED ON ARCHITECTURAL, HISTORIC, OR CULTURAL MOTIF. THAT LAST PART, THERE ARE NO DOTS CONNECTING THE FACT THAT, UM, THE TIRE SHOP NEXT DOOR, WHICH ALLEGEDLY WAS THE BARB HATCHERY BUILDING, UH, THEY DON'T TIE ALL OF THAT TOGETHER. SO, UH, I THINK THERE'S SOME, I THINK IT GETS NEGATIVE EVALUATION ON TODAY'S CRITERIA, WHICH MEETS THE STANDARD OF, UM, NEW AND COMPELLING EVIDENCE, WHICH AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, NO NOTICE. UM, CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE CHANGED SUCH THAT WHATEVER HISTORICAL QUALITIES MAY HAVE BEEN AROUND IN 2002 NO LONGER EXIST. AND ALSO, I WOULD SAY THAT THE COMMUNITY'S CHANGED. THIS IS IN, UH, DISTRICT THREE. UH, AND I HAVE BEEN IN MEETINGS, AND I'VE HEARD THE COUNCILWOMAN SPEAK ABOUT WANTING TO BRING MORE PROFESSIONAL SERVICES TO THE SOUTH SIDE. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS. THIS IS A FULL SERVICE PROFESSIONAL LAW FIRM. HE'S BEEN THERE SINCE 2007, BUT HE HAS CLIENTS THAT COME IN EVERY DAY THAT SAID, I'VE LIVED HERE MY WHOLE LIFE. I HAD NO IDEA YOU WERE THERE. IF YOU CAN SEE HIS SIGN, IT'S THE MOST OBSCURE LITTLE SIGN. YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IT'S THERE BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS SET BACK OF AGAINST FROM THE, UH, THE STREET. THE OTHER MAJOR PROBLEM IS IT'S GONNA IMPEDE HIS ABILITY TO, TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY THAT'S BEHIND, WHICH HE ALSO WOULD LIKE TO DO FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. SO WE THINK THAT, UH, THE, THE CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED NOT ONLY AROUND THE PROPERTY, BUT IN THE COMMUNITY. AND WE THINK THAT THIS IS CONSISTENT FOR WHAT THE, UH, WHAT, UH, SHOULD BE HAPPENING FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. SO, UH, UH, THERE ARE NO PLANS TO CHANGE THE BUILDING, UH, WHATSOEVER. HE'S NOT GONNA TEAR IT DOWN OR ALTER IT. HE WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO USE THE FULL C TWO, INCLUDING PUTTING UP A SIGN, JUST LIKE ALL OF HIS NEIGHBORS, HE'S SURROUNDED BY THESE SAME SIGNS AND HE'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. I'D ALSO POINT OUT THAT WHEN THE 2002 OWNER DID GET THE HISTORIC TAX DESIGNATION, IT CAME WITH A TAX EXEMPTION THAT DID NOT CONVEY TO MY PROPERTY AT THE TIME. THE 2002 ORDINANCE SAID THAT UPON CONVEYANCE, YOU LOSE THE, UH, THE EXEMPTION. SO HE DIDN'T GET ANY OF THE BENEFITS OF THIS. HE DIDN'T GET ANY OF THE NOTICE OF IT. AND IT'S IMPEDING HIS ABILITY TO BRING SOME BADLY NEEDED SERVICES TO THIS SIDE OF THE, OF THE CITY, WHICH I THINK IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COUNCILWOMAN ONCE. AND, UH, I, I DON'T, I'M NOT AWARE, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT IN HISTORIC DISTRICT OR, UH, SURROUNDED BY OTHER HISTORIC PROPERTIES. UH, WE THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE IN THIS CASE THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED. THERE'S NEW COMPELLING EVIDENCE, AND WE WOULD REQUEST THAT, UH, WE GET A RECOMMENDATION OF DE DESIGNATION. THANK YOU. WE DO HAVE SOME CITIZENS TO BE HEARD AND THEN WE'LL CALL YOU BACK UP. THANK YOU. MARY MEDFORD. MARY MEDFORD WITH THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO IS OPPOSED TO THE D DESIGNATION OF 29 14 PLEASANTON. THIS PROPERTY WAS PROPERLY DESIGNATED BY THE SAN ANTONIO CITY OF SAN ANTONIO MANY YEARS AGO AND WAS NOT CHANGED MATERIALLY SINCE THAT TIME. THE PROPERTY HAS BEEN NOTED AS HISTORIC ON ZONING MAPS AND THE CITY'S WEBSITE SO THAT POTENTIAL PURCHASERS PERFORMING DUE DILIGENCE WOULD BE AWARE OF ITS STATUS. MOREOVER, THE SOCIETY AGREES THAT THE STAFF FINDING THAT THE PROPERTY INDEED CONTINUES TO MEET AT LEAST FOUR OF THE CRITERIA FOR DESIGNATION. IT IS AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF A MEDITERRANEAN REVIVAL HOME FROM THE HEYDAY OF THAT SAN OF THAT STYLE AND [03:20:01] MAINTAINS THE HISTORIC FEATURES OF THAT STYLE IN ITS MASSING MATERIALS, DETAILING AND OVERALL ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN. THE LARGELY COMMERCIAL SETTING DOES NOT DETRACT FROM THE GRACEFUL RESIDENTIAL DESIGN SET BACK ALONG THE ROAD. THANK YOU. WE ALSO HAVE TRICIA FAD, BUT I THINK SHE LEFT. YEAH. SO THAT'S ALL WE HAVE MI MR. CHAIR. YES. UH, I WANNA ASK, UH, STAFF A QUESTION. THE, THE, UH, REQUEST FOR A SIGN IN THE, IN THE PAST, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, UM, UH, THAT THEY, THAT THEY HA THEY CAN TAKE TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT THAT? NO. UM, SO WHAT'S STRANGE ABOUT THE REQUEST IS, UM, THE SPECIFIC TYPE OF SIGN THAT IS PROPOSED IS PROHIBITED UNDER THE CODE FOR HISTORIC PROPERTIES. AND SO THERE'S NOT REALLY A PROCESS BY WHICH IT COULD BE CONSIDERED. UM, HAVING SAID THAT, WE ALL KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR SIGNAGE ON HISTORIC PROPERTIES. THIS BODY REVIEWS THEM ALL THE TIME. UM, THERE'S AN OPTION TO REFACE THE EXISTING SIGN. UM, A MONUMENT SIGN COULD ALSO BE REVIEWED AND CONSIDERED. UM, SO THE DESIGNATION CERTAINLY DOESN'T PRECLUDE THE USE OF THE PROPERTY FOR, FOR THE OFFICES, AND IT DOESN'T PRECLUDE ANY REQUESTS FOR SIGNAGE OTHER THAN THE PROHIBITED SIGNAGE IN THE CODE. BUT, BUT NOW, FROM, JUST, JUST FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE IN, IN, WITH THE SITUATION OF WHAT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE URBAN FABRIC IS AROUND, HOW DIFFERENT IT IS IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS BUILDING, SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS KIND OF A SEA OF SIGNS, UM, THERE, THERE, THERE, THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF, OF THEM BEING CREATIVE AND THEN ASKING FOR, UH, CONSIDERATION, RIGHT? YES. UM, THE, SO THE TYPE OF SIGNS THAT ARE PROHIBITED IN THE CODE ARE DIGITAL MOVING SIGNS, UM, AND ALSO CABINET OR PYLON SIGNS. AND SO THE TYPE OF SIGN THAT, THAT WE'VE SEEN PROPOSED BY THE APPLICANT IS AN ILLUMINATED CABINET ON A POLE OR A PYLON, AND THAT'S WHAT'S PROHIBITED. THANK YOU. I GUESS MR. COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ HAS A POINT, UH, MAYBE THE COMMIT, I MEAN, I, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M INCLINED TO REMOVE A HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, LANDMARK DESIGNATION BECAUSE IT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF A SIGN. UM, BUT THE APPLICANT, UH, BE INTERESTED IN COMING BACK WITH A, A SIGN PROJECT THAT WE MAY CONSIDER HERE. UH, I KNOW THAT HE'S ALREADY PURCHASED A SIGN, UH, BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE WAS ELIGIBLE BECAUSE IN FACT, IT WASN'T PROPERLY NOTICED DESPITE THE COMMENT. IT WASN'T PROPERLY, UH, IT WASN'T PROPERLY DONE BY THE CITY AT THE TIME. SO I, I'D BE HAPPY TO ASK HIM. UM, HE'S NOT AVAILABLE TO ME RIGHT NOW, BUT, UH, I'VE, I'VE DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY WITH HIM. IT WAS RAISED BY STAFF. I MADE HIM AWARE OF IT BEFORE WE FILED THE APPLICATION. HE TOLD ME TO FILE THE APPLICATION. SO, UM, THAT'S I THINK HIS POSITION. I'M NOT SAYING I WOULDN'T GO BACK IF YOU, IF YOU'RE ASKING IF THIS IS WHAT THIS, UH, COMMISSION WANTS ME TO DO, I'D BE HAPPY TO DO IT, TO ASK HIM. UH, BUT WE, WE DID LOOK AT THE, THE ADJUSTMENTS AND THERE WAS NO WAY OUT FOR US, UH, ON THE SIGN. AND IT'S ALSO GONNA BE A MAJOR PROBLEM. I THINK WHATEVER WE, WE END UP WORKING OUT WITH STAFF, I WISH THEY WOULD SHOW SOME OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE SURROUND US BECAUSE THEY'RE HUGE AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED SOME REAL SIGNAGE TO GET PEOPLE IN THERE AND AS WELL TO THE BACK PROPERTY, WHICH IS REALLY A MAJOR CONCERN BECAUSE THAT'S UNDERUTILIZED PROPERTY RIGHT NOW THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO DEVELOP. UM, I WOULD SAY THOUGH, THAT I, I TAKE ISSUE WITH, WITH THE WAY THIS HAS BEEN INTERPRETED HERE, UH, THAT, THAT WHAT THE ORDINANCE AUTHORIZES ONLY APPLIES WHEN THE STRUCTURE IS FOUND ON THE, WHEN THE STRUCTURE. IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOESN'T QUALIFY UNDER THE ORDINANCE. IF THE STRUCTURE FOUND ON THE SIDE AT THE TIME OF DESIGNATION REMAINS, THAT BASICALLY TO ME IS THE PROPERTY NEEDS TO BURN DOWN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UH, THAT'S A VERY INFLEXIBLE RULE IN MY MIND THAT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT CHANGES IN CONDITIONS. AND I ALSO KNOW THAT CITY COUNCIL'S TAKEN A DIFFERENT POSITION ON THAT, ON AT LEAST TWO DIFFERENT OCCASIONS AND HIS DE DESIGNATED PROPERTY WHERE IT DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL THERE. THE FREDERICK BUILDING, FOR EXAMPLE, IS ONE EXAMPLE. SO I'M NOT SURE WHY WE'RE STILL, UH, STICKING WITH THIS, UH, STANDARD WHEN WE'VE GOTTEN DIFFERENT DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL. BUT, UM, I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT IN RESPONSE TO THE, UH, SO JUST A QUICK COMMENT ON THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL, THAT'S THEIR RULINGS ON PARTICULAR CASES, AND THAT DOESN'T SET A, A PRECEDENT MOVING FORWARD ON ALL OTHER CASES. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I I, I'M, I CONCUR WITH THE SORT OF RELUCTANCE TO REMOVE DESIGNATION UNLESS THERE HAS BEEN SOMETHING DRAMATICALLY CHANGED LIKE A FIRE OR FLOOD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND WHILE THE CONTEXT OF THIS AREA HAS, HAS CHANGED A BIT, IT HASN'T REALLY IMPACTED THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S MAINTAINED ITS HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE. UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S DEFINING CHARACTERS HAVEN'T CHANGED, UH, CHARACTERISTICS THAT HAVEN'T CHANGED. SO I, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS SOME ROOM FOR SOME NEGOTIATING AND FIGURING OUT, YOU KNOW, SIGNAGE SOLUTION THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THAT [03:25:01] NEW CONTEXT THAT, UH, THEN STILL LEAVES THIS, UH, PROPERTY DESIGNATED AND GIVES THIS PROPERTY OWNER THE, THE OPPORTUNITY, UH, SHOULD HE DO FUTURE REHABILITATION TO IT, THAT HE CAN, UH, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THE, UH, FINANCIAL INCENTIVES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO HIM. I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION. HOW COME THE OWNER DIDN'T KNOW, UH, WAS NOT A BEARCAT? ISN'T THAT SOMETHING NORMALLY THAT, OH, WELL, UH, HE DIDN'T KNOW BECAUSE THE, THE CITY DIDN'T, I'M ASKING STAFF. OH, I'M SORRY. SO, I MEAN, I DON'T, WOW, JUST BACK UP. UM, SO I DON'T REALLY WANNA GET INTO OUR ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT OR WHAT DID OR DIDN'T HAPPEN 10 YEARS AGO. UM, I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT HISTORIC DESIGNATION IS A CHANGE IN ZONING. AND SO THE DESIGNATION HAS BEEN IN PLACE ON THIS PROPERTY SINCE THE TIME THAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE WAS IN PLACE. UM, AND WE DO FILE EVERY YEAR DESIGNATIONS WITH, WITH BEXAR COUNTY DEEDED RECORDS. WELL, THIS ALSO, I'M ALSO INCLINED TO, UH, REMOVE DESIGNATION AND WOULD HOPE THAT THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER COULD, UH, COME BACK AND, AND WORK WITH THE STAFF AND, AND THE COMMISSION TO GET THE SIGNAGE THAT THAT WOULD, UH, UH, SUPPORT HIS, UH, LAW OFFICE AND HIS, AND HIS FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. BUT A SIGNAGE UNDER THAT WOULD, UH, UH, COMPLY UNDER THE U D C. IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO THAT? UH, AFTER THE, THE COMMISSION TAKES A VOTE? UM, WELL, I, I IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA TODAY. YEAH. NEW SIGNAGE IS NOT ON THE UNDERSTANDING. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE COULDN'T TAKE A VOTE ON THIS MATTER TODAY? YES, WE CAN CONTINUE. WE'RE ABOUT TO CONTINUE TO CONTINUE TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE, UH, CORRECT. YES. UH, WE'LL BE TAKING A VOTE SHORTLY AS SOON AS WE GET A MOTION. YEAH, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO DENY SECOND MOTION AND A SECOND FOR DENIAL. JUST A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IF, IF, UM, THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR THE REMOVAL OF A DESIGNATION, CAN, IF, IF A, IF A, IF A CASE WAS CONTINUED, IT CAN'T BE CONTINUED TO DISCUSS A SIGN, RIGHT? NO. TO SOME DIFFERENT ITEMS. THERE'S EVEN, BUT HE BROUGHT IT UP. DOESN DIFFERENT APPLICATION. THE, YOU COULD COME BACK WITH A NEW APPLICATION FOR SIGNAGE. OKAY. AND I WILL GO ON RECORD AS SAYING THAT WE ACKNOWLEDGE THIS AS AN INDIVIDUAL LANDMARK AND NOT WITHIN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND THAT THERE ARE REAL ISSUES WITH, UM, VISIBILITY ON THE STREET FRONTAGE. AND SO WE ARE OPEN TO, UM, UH, PROBABLY SOMETHING BEYOND WHAT THE GUIDELINES NORMALLY RECOMMEND FOR A STORE PROPERTIES. THE ISSUE IS THE PROHIBITION LANGUAGE AND THE CODE THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. OKAY. UM, WE HAVE A MOTION AND FOR DENIAL. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAYYY. AYE PASSES. THANK YOU, SIR. AGENDA [B-26 19-8173 Address/Description: 120 E AGARITA AVEHDRC Case No.: 2019-642Historic District Name: Monte VistaApplicant: Don McDonald/Don B McDonald Architect AIA.Request: Roof replacementCity Council Dist.: 1] ITEM B 26 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 42 1 20 EAST AITA. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE EXISTING ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF WITH THE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A AND B STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT INSTALL A SHINGLE ROOF. I'M DON MCDONALD. I INSTALLED THE EXISTING ROOF IN 2003, UH, TO INSTALL THAT ROOF. WE REMOVED A ROOF THAT WAS INSTALLED, ANOTHER ASPHALT SHINGLE ROOF THAT WAS INSTALLED IN 1968. UH, UNDERNEATH THAT ROOF IN THE VERY BACK WAS AN OLD TURN METAL STANDING SEAM ROOF, WHICH WE ASSUME WAS THE ORIGINAL ROOF. UM, TO SUPPORT THAT. UM, I THINK THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL IMAGES IN HERE, UH, THAT THAT ROOF WAS PULLED OFF AT THE TIME TO SUPPORT THE, THE, UH, THAT THAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE, THE HOUSE AND THE, THE ERA. WE WENT UP AND DOWN THE STREET AND LOOKED AT, UH, SURVEYED EVERY HOUSE IN A HUNDRED BLOCK OF REED. I THINK THERE'S A DOZEN BETWEEN 1,919 20 WHEN THEY STARTED, UH, UH, BUILDING PERIOD HOUSES. AND WITHOUT EXCEPTION, EVERY SINGLE ROOF WAS, UH, TURN STANDING SEAM EITHER ORIGINAL OR HAD BEEN REPLACED IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. UM, AND THESE ARE ALL EXAMPLES UP AND DOWN THE STREET. THIS ONE HAS BEEN REPLACED, BUT, BUT IT WAS DONE ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO. THIS ONE ACTUALLY IS ORIGINAL TURN. IT'S BEEN WELL MAINTAINED. UM, THIS ONE IS ACTUALLY ASPHALT SHINGLE, BUT, BUT WE FOUND, UH, AN OLD NEWSPAPER CLIPPING THAT SHOWS THE ORIGINAL METAL ROOF, UH, WHICH KIND OF CLOSES THAT. ANOTHER ONE. THIS ONE ACTUALLY HAS THE ORIGINAL METAL ROOF AS WELL. CAN, CAN STAFF RESPOND TO THAT? YEAH. UM, PART OF THE GUIDELINES, WE LOOK AT A COUPLE THINGS WHEN WE REVIEW CHANGE IN MATERIALS. UM, WE LOOK IF THERE'S EVIDENCE OF WHAT THE ORIGINAL MATERIAL WAS. UM, AND WE [03:30:01] USE SANBORNS AS WELL AS SOMETIMES THERE'S PIECES IN PLACE LIKE THE APPLICANT HAS MENTIONED. UM, I'M UNAWARE UNTIL NOW THAT THERE WAS ANY ORIGINAL ROOFING MATERIALS IN PLACE AT SOME POINT. SO THAT'S NEWS TO US. UM, WE ALSO LOOK AT WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE STYLE. UM, HISTORICALLY, YES, IN SAN ANTONIO WE DO SEE THAT, UM, METAL ROOFS HAVE APPLIED, BEEN APPLIED TO ALL SORTS OF, UH, BUILDING STYLES. UM, BUT REALLY JUST LOOKING AT THE GUIDELINES, UM, THIS IS A, A KIND OF HIGH STYLE CRAFTSMAN HOUSE. AND TRADITIONALLY THOSE WOULD HAVE A SHINGLE PRODUCT, A WOOD SHINGLE, NOT ALWAYS. UM, I MEAN, A LOT OF TIMES HISTORICALLY WE SEE ASBESTOS SHINGLES, UM, EVEN, UH, TILE PRODUCTS THAT MIMIC THE APPEARANCE OF SHINGLES. IS THERE EVIDENCE IN THE, IN THE ATTIC OF POSSIBLY A WOOD SHINGLE ROOF? ORIGINALLY, UH, A WOOD SHINGLE ROOF WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE, UM, UH, BATTENS ON THE INTERIOR AND, AND THIS IS A FULL ROOF. AND, AND, AND THEN IN, IN RESPONSE TO THAT, I KNOW THAT IN CALIFORNIA YOU TYPICALLY WOULD SEE WHICH SHINGLE ROOFS. WE WENT THROUGHOUT, AND WE HAVE DOZENS OF PHOTOGRAPHS HERE WE DON'T WANNA BORE YOU WITH, BUT WE WENT THROUGHOUT, UM, BEACON HILL AND TOBIN HILL, THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS. WE THOUGHT MAYBE THIS WAS A FLUKE FOR AGARITA STREET OF THAT ERA, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, MAYBE A HUNDRED HOUSES THAT WE SURVEYED. EVERY SINGLE ONE, UH, THAT HAD THE ORIGINAL ROOF INTACT WAS A METAL ROOF. UH, WE FOUND TWO EXAMPLES OF, OF SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE IT MIGHT'VE BEEN A COMPOSITION ROOF, BUT IT WAS A RARITY. UM, OBVIOUSLY, UH, WOOD ROOFS WOULD, WOULD NOT BE INTACT ANYMORE, BUT, BUT, BUT WE LOOKED AT, AT, AT THROUGH OLD IMAGES OF SAN ANTONIO FOR WHATEVER REASON IN THAT TIME AND ERA IN SAN ANTONIO, ALMOST WITHOUT EXCEPTION, THEY WERE ALL STANDING SEAM ROOFS ON THESE SHINGLE BUILDINGS. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT OTHER EXAMPLES IN, IF YOU WANNA FLIP THROUGH HERE A LITTLE FURTHER, YOU, HOW MUCH OF THE BEACON, HOW MUCH OF THE HOUSE HAD THE TURN METAL ROOF BACK IN WHEN YOU REPLACED THE SHINGLES? THE, THE ONLY PART THAT WAS LEFT WAS IN BAD SHAPE, AND IT WAS THE SOUTH SIDE. IT WAS, IT WAS THE ENTIRE SOUTH QUADRANT OF IT. THE, THE EAST AND WEST GABLE HAD BEEN REPLACED. JUST ORIGINAL RAW WOOD. ARE THERE ANY NEIGHBORHOOD COMMENTS? COMMENTS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? UM, DID WE RECEIVE ANY LETTERS? NO. SO, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THE GO GUIDELINES SAY YOU REPLACE IN KIND AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT I, I THINK, UH, IT IS WELL ESTABLISHED THAT HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, DESPITE THESE, UH, YOU KNOW, STYLES THAT PERVADED ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, HAVING, YOU KNOW, MORE OF A PREDOMINANT OF SHINGLE ROOFS HERE IN SAN ANTONIO AND IN TEXAS IN GENERAL, UH, THEY, THEY HAVE THE FOLDED OR STANDING SEA METAL ROOFS. AND SO I DON'T THINK THIS IS OUTTA CHARACTER AND I WOULD SUPPORT THIS APPLICATION, BUT, UH, STATUS, I WAS A MOTION. THEN I'LL JUST SECOND, UH, I AGREE. THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO DONE A GREAT, UH, PRESENTATION OF, UM, BECAUSE WE SEE THIS CASE, UM, YOU KNOW, EACH CASE DIFFERENT. UM, AND BASED ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE STYLE OF THE HOME AND THE SURROUNDING HOMES, I, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD WORK TOO. BUT STAFF ADD THAT, UM, IN THAT CASE, THE APPLICANT, UH, WHEN RECEIVING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WOULD NEED TO ADHERE TO THE, THE SPECIFICATIONS FOR A STANDING SEA METAL ROOF. SO, UH, A CRIT RIDGE SEAM, UH, NO RIDGE CAP, UH, PANEL WIDTH, IT'S 18 TO 21 INCHES, SO ON. OKAY, SO I MOVE AS, UH, REQUESTED WITH, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS, THE STANDARD, UH, STANDING SCENE, METAL ROOF SPECIFICATIONS. SECOND MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [B-27 19-8237 Address/Description: 314 LAMAR STHDRC Case No.: 2019-632Historic District Name: Dignowity HillApplicant: Timothy Patrick/FDN Home, LLCRequest: Rehabilitation, construction of a rear addition, andconstruction of a rear accessory structureCity Council Dist.: 2B-27 19-8237Address/Description: 511 E CRAIG PLACEHDRC Case] B 27 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 32 3 14. LAMAR, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO PERFORM REHABILITATION, EXTERIOR MODIFICATIONS, AND THE CONSTRUCT REAR ADDITION AT THREE 14 LAMAR. WITHIN THIS REQUEST, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED THE FOLLOWING, ONE, TO PERFORM FOUNDATION, REPAIR, REPAIR, EXTERIOR FRAMING, REPAIR, ROOF DECKING, REPAIR, WOOD SIDING, AND TRIM IN KIND ROOF REPLACEMENT, AND TO CONSTRUCT, RECONSTRUCT THE FRONT PORCH. TWO, TO INSTALL NEW WINDOWS AND DOORS WHERE EXISTING WINDOWS AND DOORS HAVE BEEN REMOVED. THREE, TO CONSTRUCT A REAR TWO-STORY ADDITION AND ENCLOSED AN ORIGINAL COVERED REAR PORCH. AND FOUR, TO CONSTRUCT A REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE, REHABILITATION BASED ON FINDING C. THERE ARE, UH, SIX STIPULATIONS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT REPAIR, EXCUSE ME FOR ITEM NUMBER TWO. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT REPAIR ALL EXISTING WINDOWS AND DOORS. IF EXISTING WINDOWS AND DOORS ARE BEYOND REPAIR, THE APPLICANT SHOULD SUBMIT EVIDENCE TO THIS EFFECT. IN ADDITION TO SPECIFICATIONS FOR MATCHING NEW WINDOWS AND SALVAGE HISTORIC DOORS OF LIKESTYLE AND CONSTRUCTION, REPLACEMENT WINDOWS SHOULD BE FABRICATED TO MATCH THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS. STAFF [03:35:01] DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE. THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REAR ADDITION BASED ON FINDINGS F THROUGH K STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT MODIFY THE PROPOSED ROOF FORM MASSING AND ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS TO BE MORE IN KEEPING WITH THOSE, THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE DOES NOT MODIFY THE ROOF FORM OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT A LINE OF SIGHT STUDY TO DETERMINE THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE PROPOSED REAR ADDITION'S HEIGHT. THE REAR ADDITION SHOULD NOT BE VISIBLE WHEN VIEWED FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, AND STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM FOUR. THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REAR ADDITION BASED ON FINDING ILL STAFF FINDS AN INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED FOR THE REQUEST. AT THIS TIME, THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. MY NAME IS TIM PATRICK. WE DO A, UM, BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF WHAT, WHAT ALL YOU'RE PROPOSING AND WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH, UM, ALL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS. I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH ONE AND TWO, AND ALL THE STIPULATIONS THAT ARE, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH THAT AS FAR AS CONFORMING TO, UH, IN-KIND MATERIALS. UH, AS FAR AS, UM, NUMBER THREE, THE, UH, THE ADDITION, WHICH WOULD BE A, A LOFT ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE HOME. UH, THE IDEA WITH THAT IS, UH, TO HAVE BETTER VISIBILITY TOWARD THE TOWER. UH, IT'S SOUTH FACING. UM, THERE ARE SEVERAL, UM, TWO STORY WAREHOUSES, UM, CONDOS, THINGS LIKE THAT WHERE THE VIEW OF THE TOWER WOULD BE BETTER, UH, ACCESSIBLE. AND I THINK THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE LINE OF SIGHT, UH, TO SEE IF THAT'S A, THAT'S VIABLE OR NOT. UH, I ALSO SAW THAT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS IN ORDER TO ADD SQUARE FOOTAGE WOULD BE TO JUST BUILD BACK ON ONE STORY VERSUS, UH, TO TRY TO DO THE SECOND STORY. UH, IN ORDER TO GET THAT EIGHT FOOT, UH, CEILING, UH, IN THE ADDITION ON THE BACK, IT DOES RAISE ABOVE FROM THE STREET VIEW, UH, THE EXISTING ROOF STRUCTURE. SO I THINK THAT WAS THE MAIN CONCERN, SAYING THAT IF YOU PUSH IT BACK ON THE LOT, YOU'LL STILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT IF YOU MAINTAIN THAT HEIGHT. I, I, I THINK WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S BETWEEN THE, THE BACK OF THE HOUSE AND THE TOWER AND EVERYTHING THAT'S IN BETWEEN AS FAR AS, UM, YOU KNOW, OTHER STRUCTURES, UH, WAREHOUSES, CONDOS, THERE'S ACTUALLY A FIRE STATION THAT'S IN THE LINE OF SIGHT BETWEEN, UM, THE TOWER AND THE, AND THE BACKYARD FOR THAT PROPERTY. UM, THAT WAS REALLY THE RATIONALE BEHIND TRYING TO, UH, RAISE UP, UM, A LOFT AND PATIO ON THE BACKSIDE. UH, IT DOES HOWEVER, RAISE ABOVE THE EXISTING ROOF LINE, UH, IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THAT. I CAN CLARIFY JUST A LITTLE BIT. UM, I THINK THE APPLICANT'S REFERRING TO THE PROPOSED LOCATION OF THE SECOND STORY FOR VIEWS TO THE TOWER OF AMERICA, UM, WHAT STAFF IS SIMPLY SAYING IS WE FIND THAT THE PROPOSED TWO STORY ADDITION, UH, SHOULD FEATURE A MORE, UH, FLUENT ROOF LINE THAT DOESN'T MODIFY THE ORIGINAL ROOF LINE OF THE TWO OF THE, THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, SO IN REGARDS TO STAFF NOTING THAT THE APPLICANT COULD EXTEND TO THE REAR, UM, IN WHATEVER FORM A TWO STORY ADDITION MAY BE APPROPRIATE, WE'RE JUST SAYING THAT THE ROOF FORM SHOULD BE COMPARABLE TO WHAT'S ALREADY THERE AND THAT A LINE OF SIGHT STUDY SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO JUST SHOW THAT WHAT IS SUBMITTED ISN'T VISIBLE FROM THE, THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UM, THERE'S STAFF WANTS THE LINE OF SIGHT TO CONFIRM THAT IT WON'T BE SEEN, BUT THERE'S NOT MUCH CONCERN IN REGARDS TO A TWO STORY ADDITION AS LONG AS IT HAS A COMPARABLE ROOF FORM YOU'VE EVEN SEEN LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, FLAT OR SOMETHING GOING DOWN OR SOMETHING. SO, SO IF WE WENT BACK AND, UH, PROVIDED ADDITIONAL DRAWINGS THAT DID NOT EXTEND ABOVE FROM THE STREET VIEW, UH, THE EXISTING ROOF LINE, BE IT A FLAT ROOF OR, OR SOMETHING, UH, JUST LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS. IS THAT THE RECOMMENDATION? OH, WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? UM, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT STAFF WOULD PROBABLY BE ABLE TO APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVELY, BUT MAYBE WE CONCEPTUALLY OR WE CAN SEND JUST THAT ITEM TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AND WE CAN DISCUSS OPTIONS FOR ROOM FORMS FOR THAT ITEM. YEAH, I, UM, I SUPPORT THAT BECAUSE I, I THINK THE, THE CONCEPT OF HAVING THE TWO TWO STORY, UM, UH, ADDITION BACK THERE, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO IT. I THINK STAFF'S GOT THAT RIGHT, BUT I THINK THE INTEGRATION THAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE, IT'S, IT'S VERY DISJOINTED. AND I THINK JUST, UH, MAYBE JUST A QUICK WORK SESSION AND MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS DURING THAT MORE INFORMAL DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING. UM, AND THEN WE CAN GET YOU ON YOUR WAY WITH YOUR, YOUR CERTIFICATE OF COM. OKAY. I APPRECIATE THAT. AND, AND IT IN THE DRAWINGS THAT WHEN YOU COME BACK, IF YOU CAN INCLUDE A ROOF, UH, PLAN FROM [03:40:01] THE TOP TO SEE WHERE THE LINES GO, IT HELP TO SEE IT. YEAH, I, THIS IS A LITTLE DUBIOUS ON HOW IT WORKS OUT AS A, AS AN ACTUAL FUNCTIONAL ROOF. SO I THINK SOME, SOME WORK, UH, NEEDS TO BE DONE JUST TO, TO ADDRESS SOME FUNCTIONAL ISSUES. SO I MOVE, UH, FOR REFERRING THIS TO THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. BE COULD, COULD STAFF, UH, HOW ABOUT WE APPROVE ITEM ONE AND TWO AND REFER ITEM THREE AND FOUR TO D R C. SO HE ACTUALLY HAS AN APPROVAL ON THOSE TWO ITEMS. JUST BACKGROUND, THIS HOUSE HAS BEEN ON OUR DEMO BY NEGLECT LIST. UM, THE PREVIOUS TWO OWNERS WERE CIED. AND SO, UM, ANYTHING THAT MAY ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO, UH, START REHABILITATION ON THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE WOULD BE BEST. AND SO, UM, APPROVAL FOR ITEMS ONE AND TWO TODAY WOULD BE GREAT. AND FOUR, RIGHT? I THINK I NEED TO ADD, ADD ADDIT. THE, THE ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE IS A GARAGE, SO I, I JUST NEEDED TO ADD ADDITIONAL, ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. INFORMATION. YEAH, SO WE NEED AS FAR AS MATERIALS AND SUCH INFORMATION, SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT TODAY, MAYBE WE COULD JUST TABLE IT FOR NEXT TIME AND THEN, UM, YOU'LL HAVE THAT READY WITH ITEM THREE. SO I'M SYMPATHETIC TO THAT. AND CONSIDER A, UH, FRIENDLY AMENDMENT AND, UH, COMMEND YOU FOR TAKING ON, THIS IS QUITE A PROJECT. SO, UM, I MOVE FOR REFERRAL TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION, BUT WITH THE APPROVAL, SORRY, DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING, BUT WITH THE APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE AND TWO AS SUBMITTED WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. I HAVE TAKEN ON A QUITE A CHALLENGE. I, I, I, I, YEAH. AND AS A NOTE, [B-28 19-8277 Address/Description: 511 E CRAIG PLACE HDRC Case No.: 2019-606 Historic District Name: River Road RIO District: RIO-1 Applicant: John Larcade Request: Construction of a 1-story rear accessory structure City Council Dist.:1] ITEM NUMBER B 28 H D OR ADDRESS FIVE 11 EAST CRAIG PLACE WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY AS IT'S BEEN POSTPONED. MOVING ON TO ITEM [B-29 19-8345 Address/Description: 218 W WOODLAWN HDRC Case No.: 2019-640 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: E.C. Parker Request: Construction of a 2-story addition, exterior alterations, and roofline modification City Council Dist.: 1] B 29, H H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 6 4 0. ADDRESS, TWO 18 WEST WOODLAWN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL. TWO, ONE, ENCLOSED ONE WINDOW ON THE EAST ELEVATION OF THE NON-ORIGINAL EDITION. TWO, ENCLOSED THREE WINDOWS ON THE WEST ELEVATION OF THE NON-ORIGINAL EDITION. THREE, ADD SALVAGE WOOD WINDOWS ON THE WEST, EAST AND REAR ELEVATIONS OF THE NON-ORIGINAL EDITION. FOUR, CONSTRUCT A NEW TWO STORY REAR ADDITION, AND FIVE, MODIFY THE EXISTING ROOF LINE OF THE HISTORIC ONE STORY STRUCTURE TO FEATURE THREE NEW SHED DORMERS WITH NEW WOOD CASEMENT WINDOWS. AND A TWO STORY CONNECTING ELEMENT TO THE REAR ADDITION. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF MOST OF THE PROJECT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE ROOF LINE MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE. I'M ERNEST PARKER. I'M THE ARCHITECT. ISAACS, I'M THE HOMEOWNER. YEAH, WE AGREE WITH ALL OF THE ITEMS EXCEPT NUMBER FIVE. WE WOULD LIKE TO, UH, ADD THE DORMERS IN THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. UM, EXCUSE ME, MICROPHONE. YEAH, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UM, THEY'RE SHED DORMERS. THEY'RE QUIET AND, UM, THEY'RE IMPORTANT. AND IN THAT, UM, THEY WON'T MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO USE THAT ATTIC SPACE, THAT EXISTING ATTIC SPACE. RIGHT NOW IT'S A, IT'S A GOOD USABLE SPACE, BUT IT'S, UH, WINDOWLESS. SO THAT IS OUR HOPE. I DON'T, THESE WERE NOT SUBMITTED, UM, 'CAUSE I GOT 'EM PRINTED TODAY, BUT, UM, WE ARE LITERALLY THE ONLY HOUSE ON THE STREET WITHOUT A DORMER. EVERY, BUT ALL THE NEIGHBORS HOUSE ACROSS THE STREET. EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAS A DORMER, JUST NOT US. SO JUST MATCHING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK IT WOULD FIT IN BETTER WITH THE DORMER. THOSE PICTURES THAT YOU JUST SHOWED WERE TWO STORY HOMES, ALL OF THEM, RIGHT? ONE STORY. THERE WAS A ONE STORY, THAT FIRST ONE, ALL TWO STORY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THIS ONE AND A HALF STORY. AND WHERE IS, WHAT STREET IS THIS ON, ON WOODLAND AND IT'S DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. OKAY. SO I'M NOT UNSYMPATHETIC TO THE, UH, NOTION GETTING NATURAL LIGHT INTO THAT SPACE AND MAKING USE OF IT. I'M WONDERING IF IT'S JUST AN ISSUE OF SCALE. UM, THE EXAMPLES THAT YOU GAVE WERE MUCH SMALLER, UM, ALMOST LIKE A SINGLE SASH, UH, SIZED WINDOWS UP IN THE DORMERS. UM, AND WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING IS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS A, UM, A DOUBLE HUNG OR A, A SINGLE HUNG WINDOW. SO IT'S PRETTY SIZABLE. I THINK IT WOULD BE PRETTY NOTICEABLE, UH, EXTENDING OUT, UM, ABOVE THAT PORCH THERE. UM, WOULD THERE BE CONSIDERATION OF MAYBE [03:45:01] REDUCING THE SIZE OF THAT IN ORDER TO GET, UH, GET THE NATURAL LIGHT, BUT MAKE IT A LESS PROMINENT ELEMENT SO IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THE PRIMACY OF THAT FRONT GABLE AND THE, AND THE DESIGN OF THE PORCH? OKAY. YOU HAVE AN, UM, A RECOMMENDATION ON SIZE? NO, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING YOU COULD WORK OUT WITH YOUR ARCHITECT AND, AND, UH, COORDINATING IT WITH STAFF. BUT BASICALLY WE CAN ALSO DO SOMETHING SIMILAR THAT WE DID IN THE CASE BEFORE. AS WE APPROVE BEFORE IS WE APPROVE ALL THE OTHER ITEMS AND WE, UH, EITHER TABLE THE, OR IF STAFF FEELS CONFIDENT THAT THEY CAN APPROVE, UH, A DESIGN OF A DORMER THAT'S UP TO THE COMMISSION. I WOULD RATHER HAVE IT EITHER COME BACK, UM, FOR US TO LOOK AT. UH, I WOULD SECOND THAT IF IT'S A MOTION. SO MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM ONE THROUGH FOUR WITH A STAFF STIPULATION AND MOVE ITEM FIVE FOR NEXT MEETING. SECOND. MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AND [B-30 19-8321 Address/Description: 132 CAMARGOHDRC Case No.: 2019-660Historic District Name: LavacaApplicant: Robert AlvaradoRequest: Dismantling, relocation, and reconstruction of primarystructureCity Council Dist.: 1] ITEM NUMBER B 30, ADDRESS 1 32 CAMARGO HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN BY THE APPLICANT AND WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. AGENDA ITEM [B-31 19-8325 Address/Description: 311 W MISTLETOE HDRC Case No.: 2019-596 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Tommy Richards/RICHARDS TOMMY A & SANDRA A Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 1] B 31 H C R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 5 9 6. ADDRESS, THREE 11 WEST MISSILE TOW. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE SECOND STORY WINDOWS STAFF. STAFF DOES, OH, SORRY. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. B THROUGH C. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT REPAIR THE EXISTING WINDOWS, WOOD, WINDOWS IN PLACE IF AN ASSEMBLY IS DEEMED DETERIORATED BEYOND REPAIR BY THE H D R C STAFF. RECOMMENDS THAT NEW WINDOWS MEET STAFF STIPULATIONS. BOBBY RICHARDS. I'M THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ASKING TO REPLACE THE WINDOWS BECAUSE THE BULK OF THESE WINDOWS ARE UNUSABLE. THEY'RE UN OPENABLE. THEY'RE, THEY'VE BEEN PAINTED OR NAILED SHUT. THE HOUSE WAS IN DISREPAIR FOR ABOUT 30 OR 40 YEARS BEFORE WE BOUGHT IT. UM, WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE THE WINDOWS SAFER AND USABLE AND MORE EFFICIENT. THESE ARE, THEY'RE IN REALLY BAD SHAPE. IT'S A SECOND STORY, UH, SPACE, AND YOU CAN'T OPEN MOST OF THESE WINDOWS. SO IT'S KIND OF A SAFETY HAZARD. SENSORS, THERE'S ONLY ONE ENTRANCE TO THE UPSTAIRS, AND SO WE'RE ASKING TO RESTORE THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE SO THAT THEY STAY, LIKE THE ONES HERE, YOU SEE, WOULD KEEP THOSE IN THE FRONT UPSTAIRS AND JUST, UH, RESTORE THOSE. BUT WE'RE ASKING TO BE ABLE TO REPLACE THE OTHER WINDOWS WITH, UH, ALUMINUM CLAD. IT'S A COMBINATION OF ALUMINUM AND WOOD CLAD WINDOWS THAT LOOK IDENTICAL TO THESE ARE THE SAME SIZE AND FROM, YOU KNOW, 10 FEET AWAY. ONCE THEY'RE PAINTED. IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE. AND, UM, MOST IF NOT ALL OF THESE WINDOWS THAT WE'RE ASKING TO REPLACE ARE NOT VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. THERE'S A CO I THINK ONE OF 'EM IS, BUT THE BULK OF THEM ARE NOT. AND AS WELL AS, UM, I BROUGHT SOME OTHER PICTURES ON, ON THIS STREET. THERE'S ONLY ON OUR SIDE OF THE BLOCK, THERE'S ONLY TWO HOUSES, MINE AND THE NEIGHBOR'S. EVERYTHING ELSE IS APARTMENTS, ALL WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS. AND ACROSS THE STREET IS APARTMENT WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS. WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE INTEGRITY OF THE HOUSE, BUT WE REALLY THINK THAT THESE ARE, THESE ARE NOT USABLE, AND THE COST TO RESTORE THEM IS AT LEAST DOUBLE, IF NOT MORE THAN DOUBLE THE COST OF REPLACING. AND AT THAT, IT'S JUST A, THERE'S A LOT OF WINDOWS. I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW MANY THERE IS. THERE'S, WHAT'S THAT? THERE'S 27, 27 WINDOWS AND IT COMES OUT TO 45, SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 45 AND $60,000 JUST TO REPLACE THE, JUST TO RESTORE THOSE WINDOWS IF WE HAD TO REBUILD ALL OF THEM. AND THAT PUTS IT AT A, UM, A COST THAT WE JUST, WE CAN'T AFFORD. AND SO TO REPLACE THEM WITH WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION IN THE PAST FOR SOME PROJECTS IN HISTORIC AREAS IS, UH, YOU KNOW, WE CAN AFFORD TO DO THAT AND THEY'RE SAFER AND THEY'D BE EFFICIENT. AND WE WOULD RESTORE THE ONES IN THE FRONT AND ONE ON THE SIDE, WHICH WE WENT TO THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A SMALL ONE THAT YOU CAN SEE FROM THE STREET. WE WANNA RESTORE THAT ONE AND HAVE IT, [03:50:01] UH, STAINED GLASS PUT IN THAT ONE JUST BECAUSE OF THE LIGHT. IT'S, IT'S A WINDOW FOR STAIRS, AND I THINK THE LIGHT THAT COMES, IT'S THE ONE WITH THAT WINDOW UNIT THAT'S IN IT RIGHT NOW. THERE'S NOT EVEN ANY GLASS IN THAT WINDOW. THERE'S SEVERAL OTHER WINDOWS THAT DON'T HAVE GLASS IN THEM. AND SO WE'RE JUST, WE'RE ASKING THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO REPLACE THESE WINDOWS AND FINISH THIS PROJECT BECAUSE IF WE HAVE TO RESTORE ALL OF THESE, IT MAY, IT'S GONNA IMPACT THE BUDGET WHERE WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO DO IT, AND WE WON'T BE ABLE TO FINISH OUT THIS TOP SPACE, WHICH I NEED BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO MY, UM, GET MOVED INTO THIS SPACE. I'M LIVING IN A 400 SQUARE FOOT APARTMENT WITH A WIFE WHO'S RECOVERING FROM BRAIN SURGERY. AND SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY WANNA GET DONE. AND SO WE'RE JUST ASKING THAT, UH, WE'RE ALLOWED TO REPLACE THE WINDOWS AROUND THE BACK, THE BACK AND THE SIDES. AND THEN JUST RESTORE THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. HAS STAFF MADE A SITE VISIT TO LOOK AT THE CONDITION? YES. A SITE VISIT WAS CONDUCTED ON OCTOBER 31ST. UM, AND SITE, UH, STAFF OBSERVED THE FOLLOWING, UH, CONDITIONS. THERE WERE, THERE WAS MISSING HARDWARE ON SOME WINDOWS CRACKED OR MISSING GLASS ON OTHER WINDOWS, MINOR WATER DAMAGE AT SILLS, MINOR ROT ON SOME SASHES PAINT, PEELING OR CHIPPING MISSING CORDS AND WEIGHTS ON SOME WINDOWS AND MISSING SASHES ON SOME WINDOWS. SO THE, UM, MAJORITY OF THE WINDOWS WERE PAINTED SHUT AND INOPERABLE. UH, STAFF DID NOT OBSERVE ANY SIGNIFICANT WOOD ROT OR WOOD DAMAGE. AND OVERALL, THE WINDOWS WERE FOUND TO BE REPAIRABLE. JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT WINDOWS ONE THROUGH FIVE ON THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE PLANNING TO RESTORE THOSE? YES, WE RESTORE THOSE. AND IF WE CAN'T RESTORE THEM, WE WOULD HAVE, UM, COMPLETELY WOOD WINDOWS BUILT TO MATCH THOSE. BECAUSE THOSE, WELL, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST SAY, IF WE CAN'T, SO RIGHT NOW YOU'RE NOT ASKING, ARE THEY GONNA BE INCLUDED IN THIS REQUEST OR THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED. YOU'RE PLANNING ON RESTORING 'EM, WE'RE PLANNING, WE, WE WANT TO RESTORE THOSE, AND THEN IF IT'S NOT POSSIBLE, YOU'LL COME BACK TO US. YES, I THINK THEY ARE, BECAUSE THESE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE BEST SHAPE OF ANY OF THE WINDOWS. AND I THINK PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY WERE IN THE FRONT AND MAYBE THEY WERE, I DON'T KNOW, THE, THE HOUSE WAS, WAS NOT AND TAKEN CARE OF. I HAVE WOOD WINDOWS AT MY HOME AND, AND A LOT OF THE ISSUES THAT I SEE, ESPECIALLY ON THE SECOND STORY, IS GUTTERS AND, AND THE WOOD AND THE WATER COMING IN AND ALL THAT AND AFFECTING, I MEAN, IT JUST REALLY IS. UM, AND I MAYBE COULD COMPEL TO SEE LIKE THOSE WINDOWS THAT ARE GETTING THE WATER DIRECTLY. THERE MAY BE SOME, UH, WITH TIME, IF YOU DON'T MAINTAIN THOSE WINDOWS, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS. WE, WE'VE HAVEN'T OWNED THE PROPERTY THAT LONG AND WHEN WE, WE, WHEN WE PURCHASED IT, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE IT ON THESE PICTURES OR NOT, BUT THE, THE PORCH IN THE FRONT AND THE DRIVE THAT GOES, THERE'S A PORCH ON THE SIDE. IT'S TOO NARROW FOR A CAR. 'CAUSE IT WAS FOR A CARRIAGE THAT WAS ALL COLLAPSING. THIS HOUSE WAS IN REALLY HAD NOT BEEN TAKEN CARE OF AT ALL FOR A VERY LONG TIME. AND THAT'S WHAT I'LL, I I KIND OF LIKE, UM, WHEN WE TEND TO APPROVE THIS TYPE OF WINDOWS, IT'S ALSO OF AN OVERALL PROJECT. SO HAVE YOU DONE ALL THE WORK ON THE REST OF THE HOUSE? ARE YOU ASKING FOR TAX VERIFICATION LATER? WHAT, WHAT'S THE PLAN? NO, NO. WE, WE, WE HAVE PERMITS TO ON THE INSIDE UPSTAIRS BECAUSE THE DOWNSTAIRS IS USABLE, THE UPSTAIRS IS NOT. AND WE'RE TRYING TO FINISH OUT THE UPSTAIRS INTO AN APARTMENT SPACE THAT, THAT WE ARE GOING TO LIVE IN. AND SO WE HAVE THE PERMITS THAT WE'VE ALREADY GOTTEN FOR THE WORK ON THE INSIDE AND THE, THE OUTSIDE. I HAD THE, IT'S BEEN PAINTED LIKE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. UM, AND SO IT WAS TO TRY TO STOP THE, YOU KNOW, WE DID THINGS TO STOP THE, THE WORST PARTS OF THE DETERIORATION. AND NOW WE WANT TO START DO, DOING THE REAL RESTORATION TO IT. WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR ANY DESIGNATION DOWN THE ROAD AT ALL, BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY, WE'RE, UM, LET ME SEE IF I HAVE A COUPLE OF PICTURES HERE WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE KIND OF, THESE TWO PICTURES WILL SHOW YOU. THE, OUR, THE, OUR BLOCK IS MOSTLY APARTMENTS AND THERE'S A FEW HOUSES. THERE'S A, THE HOUSES ON THE OPPOSITE, ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET, IT'S HOUSES, A MIX OF HOUSES AND APARTMENTS. ON OUR SIDE, IT'S MOSTLY APARTMENTS. AND SO, UM, WE, WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE BECAUSE WE LIKED THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, AND WE KNEW IT WAS IN BAD SHAPE WHEN WE BOUGHT IT. WE KNEW THERE WAS A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE ON [03:55:01] IT. BUT YEAH, IT'S MOSTLY, I MEAN, THESE ARE THE APARTMENTS RIGHT NEXT DOOR, AND THEN THERE'S A SMALLER HOUSE NEXT TO ME AND NEXT TO THAT IS ANOTHER SET OF APARTMENTS AND THEN A LAUNDROMAT. AND SO WE'RE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT ANY KIND OF DESIGNATION IN THE FUTURE. WE JUST WANT A HOUSE THAT'S USABLE AND, AND THIS, THIS PICTURE ALSO TELLS US A LOT. SO THIS SIZE OF THE HOME IS NOT REALLY VISIBLE FROM THE STREET? NO, IT'S VERY, THE APARTMENTS ARE VERY CLOSE. I MEAN, THERE'S A, THERE'S A DRIVEWAY IN BETWEEN, BUT IT'S A DRIVEWAY THAT'S SO NARROW THAT THEY CAN'T EVEN USE IT. THEY HAVE POLES IN FRONT OF IT, SO THEY, YOU CAN'T DRIVE BETWEEN IT. THEY USE IT AS A WALKWAY. AND SO THE, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF VISIBILITY FROM ON EITHER SIDE REALLY. AND IN THE, OBVIOUSLY IN THE BACK, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DRIVE DOWN THE ALLEY YOU CAN SEE IT. BUT, AND SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO, TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT WE CAN AFFORD. THAT MAKES SENSE. THAT LOOKS, UM, STILL LOOKS GOOD. 'CAUSE THE, THE WINDOWS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING STILL ARE VERY NICE DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS. THEY'RE JUST ALUMINUM CLA THEY'RE WOOD WITH ALUMINUM ON THE OUTSIDE. QUESTION FOR STAFF, DO WE HAVE CITIZENS TO BE HEARD? WE DO. UM, WE'LL HAVE THEM, UH, COME UP AND SPEAK AND THEN WE'LL ASK YOU BACK UP. MARY MEDFORD. MARY MEDFORD WITH THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, CONCURS WITH O H P STAFF RECOMMENDATION REGARDING THE PROPOSED WINDOW REPLACEMENTS AT THREE 11 WEST MISSILE TOW. GIVEN THE EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, THE WINDOWS SHOULD BE REPAIRED RATHER THAN REPLACED. THANK YOU. I I STILL, YOU KNOW, WOULD LIKE TO, TO ASK THAT THE, THE COMMISSION ALLOW US TO REPLACE THESE WINDOWS. UM, IT'S REALLY, FOR US, IT'S REALLY THE, THE BEST AND, AND ONLY 'CAUSE IF WE HAD TO RESTORE THESE, THE COST IS, IS PROHIBITIVE BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY OF 'EM THAT WE JUST, WE WE COULDN'T DO IT. AND, AND, UM, IT'S JUST NOT SAFE AND USABLE THE WAY IT IS NOW. SO I I TEND TO WANT TO ECHO THOUGH, WITH THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, UH, OF THE, YEAH, CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. GOTTA GET THE, THE NOMENCLATURE RIGHTS. THEY WENT THROUGH A NAME CHANGE. UM, HOWEVER, I DON'T DOUBT THAT THERE ARE WINDOWS THAT CERTAINLY LOOK LIKE THEY'RE DETERIORATED, SOME MISSING SASHES HARDWARE AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING. UM, I WOULD, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND TO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, MAYBE WE HAVE A D R C, UH, SITE VISIT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE, THE WINDOWS, UM, OURSELVES TO ASSESS KINDA WHAT THE, WHAT THEIR CONDITIONS ARE, THEIR LIKELIHOOD OF BEING, UH, RESTORED BEFORE WE KIND OF DO A WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT. UH, UH, MOVE ON THIS MOTION FOR, FOR STAFF. HAS THEY, HAS STAFF LOOKED AT THE, UM, PROPOSED, UM, WINDOW. ARE THEY OKAY WITH THE SPEC? LIKE WOULD THEY COMPLY WITH, UH, SPECIFICATIONS? UH, WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT, UH, THOUGH IF THE WINDOWS ARE REPLACED THAT THEY REPLACED WITH ALL FULLY WOOD WINDOWS AND FOLLOWING OUR STIPULATIONS, UM, I, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT MOTION. AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE FOR THE APPLICANT TO DO CONSIDER ALSO, UH, FULLY WOOD WINDOWS. I MEAN, WE'RE WILLING TO LOOK AT 'EM. IT'S JUST, IT COMES, JUST MAKE SURE YOU LOOK AT IT BEFORE WE COME BACK. IT COMES DOWN TO A COST, A COST THING FOR US THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A CERTAIN BUDGET THAT WE, WE ARE TRYING TO WORK WITH AND TIMING AS WELL. AND IT COULD, I MEAN, IT REALLY DOES COME DOWN TO THE COST STANDPOINT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE, THE, UM, THE COST OF, YOU KNOW, JUST THESE WINDOWS HERE, YOU'RE TALKING 12, 13,000 AND IF YOU'RE DOUBLING OR OVER DOUBLING THAT TO RESTORE ALL OF THESE AND, AND IT'S GONNA BE 45 TO $60,000 JUST FOR THE WINDOWS FOR THIS PROJECT, AND IT, IT JUST ENDS THE PROJECT. WE DON'T RESTORE IT. WE DON'T FINISH UPSTAIRS. WE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO. WE PUT THE TRY TO SELL THE PROPERTY BECAUSE IT BECOMES, UH, BECOMES AN ISSUE THAT WE JUST, WE DON'T HAVE THE, THE MONEY TO, TO PAY THAT MUCH MONEY JUST FOR THE WINDOWS JUST UPSTAIRS. THAT'S NOT EVEN ADDRESSING TRYING TO WORK WITH THE DOWNSTAIRS WINDOWS, WHICH I, I I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THE DEBRA WINDOWS IS THE, IS THE PROHIBITIVE [04:00:01] THING HERE. I UNDERSTAND THAT. UM, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT 'EM AND SEE IF WE CAN CONFIRM THEIR CONDITION, BECAUSE I THINK IT, IF THEY'RE IN BETTER CONDITION OR, OR IN THE CONDITION THAT I'M SEEING HERE IN THE, IN THE EVIDENCE THAT'S PRESENTED, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONNA COST YOU DOUBLE THE PRICE OF A REPLACEMENT WINDOW RESTORE. WE'VE GOTTEN SOME, WE'VE GOTTEN SOME ESTIMATES ALREADY. OKAY. AND IT'S AT LEAST DOUBLE THE PRICE OF THE WINDOWS THAT WE'RE PROPOSING. OKAY. UM, SO I MOVE FOR A, UH, DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE SITE VISIT. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. SO STAFF WILL GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU AND ARRANGE FOR THAT DECIDE VISIT. THANK YOU. [B-32 19-8309 Address/Description: 401 E ROSEWOOD AVE HDRC Case No.: 2019-612 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Karine vonFritsch /FRITSCH KARINE V Request: Replacement of rear French doors City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA NUMBER B 32 H G R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH SIX 12. ADDRESS, 4 0 1 EAST ROSEWOOD AVENUE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE WOOD FRENCH DOORS AT THE REAR OF THE HOUSE WITH ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD REPLACEMENT FRENCH DOORS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. B THROUGH D. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT REPLACE THE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD DOORS WITH FULLY WOOD DIVIDED LIGHT FRENCH DOORS. AND STAFF WOULD LIKE TO NOTE, THIS IS A POST-WORK APPLICATION AND THE PHOTO THAT YOU SEE IS OF THE, UH, REPLACED DOORS. UM, HELLO? UM, MY NAME IS KARINE AND TH WERE THE DOOR, UH, BEFORE, EXCUSE ME, COULD YOU PULL THE MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER PLEASE? UM, THOSE WERE THE, THE DOOR THAT WERE THERE BEFORE THEY, THEY HAVE PLYWOOD ON THE BOTTOM AND IT WASN'T LIKE THAT WHEN I BOUGHT 'EM. AND THEN WHEN THE TREE FELL AND, UM, KNOCKED EVERYTHING DOWN, I, YOU KNOW, HIRED AN ELECTRICIAN, GOT THE PERMIT AND EVERYTHING, BUT I WASN'T AWARE THAT I HAD TO GET A PERMIT, I THINK IN THE BACKYARD. I THINK IN THE BACKYARD. AND, UM, THE, THE M CORPS GETTING THE ANIMAL CORPS WERE GETTING IN THERE WHILE I, I WAS IN A HOTEL FOR FIVE AND A HALF MONTH AND IN THE MEANTIME I GET THEY ATE THROUGH IT AND THEY WERE GETTING IN THERE. SO, UM, WHEN I HIRED THE ELECTRICIAN AND GOT THE PERMIT, EVERYTHING WAS ROTTEN. AND, UM, I, I PUT THE DOORS THERE, BUT I PLAN TO STAIN THEM BECAUSE THEY HAVE A STAIN, UM, MAKE IT LOOK JUST LIKE WOOD. SO THESE ARE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD. WELL, YEAH. PUT THE ALUMINUM ON THE OUTSIDE, RIGHT. AND OH YEAH, WE WERE PLANNING TO STAIN IT TO LOOK LIKE WOOD, BUT IT'S IN THE BACKYARD. YOU, YOU CAN'T SEE IT FROM ANY ANGLE UNLESS YOU CLIMB THE FENCE. QUESTION FOR STAFF, THE, THE, THE DOORS ON THE PICTURE, THE FRENCH DOORS THAT ARE, UM, THAT ARE THERE NOW IN, IN, IN THE PICTURE. YEAH. WELL THOSE AREN'T ORIGINAL DOORS, RIGHT? NO, I MEAN, THE ONES THAT YOU TOOK OFF. WELL, THAT'S THE WAY I BOUGHT THE HOUSE. BUT AT THE P THE ONES THAT HAD THE PLYWOOD, YEAH, THEY'RE, I THEY'RE NOT ORIGINAL, BUT I BOUGHT 'EM LIKE THAT AND, UH, WHEN I PURCHASED THE HOME IN 1995 RIGHT. IT WORKED ALREADY LIKE THAT. AND FOR STAFF. UM, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE COMPARING THE HISTORIC, UM, UH, CONTEXT TO, TO THOSE, THOSE DOORS DON'T, WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THOSE DOORS WERE ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE MM-HMM. , HOWEVER THEY ARE IN KEEPING WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE HOUSE MORE SO THAN THE REPLACEMENT DOORS THAT HAVE BEEN AT. BUT, BUT APPLES TO APPLES, THERE ISN'T ANY, ANY, UH, EVIDENCE OF WHAT THE ORIGINAL DOOR WAS, RIGHT? I MEAN, I DON'T, NOT WHAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, WE THINK WOULD'VE BEEN ORIGINAL, BUT CORRECT. NORMALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS WE REPLACE AS CLOSE AS IT WAS. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS, THAT'S THE ISSUE HERE. NO, AND I SO YOU WOULD REPLACE WITH A WOOD DOOR WITH DIVIDED LIGHTS AND, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THE WAY THAT, THE WAY THAT THAT IS PUT TOGETHER, THERE, THERE SEEM TO BE ISSUES WITH THE, WITH THE STYLES AND THE DIVISION THAT IT, IT IN ITSELF WOULD, WOULDN'T BE THE WAY THAT THEY WOULD'VE DONE IT OR IT WOULDN'T BE A PRODUCT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN AVAILABLE AT THE TIME. SO, UH, ONE FOR ONE REPLACEMENT BASED ON WHAT WAS THERE STILL WOULDN'T GET US BACK TO THE SPIRIT OF, UH, HISTORIC, UM, IMAGE. RIGHT. THAT'S THE BACKYARD. YEAH. SO I'M WONDERING WHAT THE LEEWAY IS IN THE, IN, IN WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, RIGHT? UH, UH, IS THE ISSUE THAT IT'S ALUMINUM FOR STAFF? UH, LIKE I SAY, THEY WERE WOOD DOORS, BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE FRENCH DIVISIONS, UH, WHICH THERE REALLY IS NO ORIGINAL EVIDENCE OF ANYWAY, RIGHT? IS IT JUST THAT IT'S ALUMINUM ON THE OUTSIDE? WHAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND THAT THE APPLICANT REPLACE THE DOORS IN KIND, WHICH WOULD BE FULLY WOOD AND WITH THE DIVIDED LIGHT [04:05:01] THAT WERE EXISTING AT THE TIME. YEAH. AND THAT IT WOULD BE TYPICALLY DIVIDED LIGHT. THIS IS NOT UN UM, AND I'M LOOKING AT THE, UH, THE ONES THAT WERE, UH, REPLACED THE IMAGE, UH, THAT'S VERY TYPICAL TO SOME DOORS THAT ARE ON MY HOUSE IN MONTICELLO PARK. IT'S OF THE SAME PERIOD TUDOR REVIVAL, UH, LATE TWENTIES, EARLY THIRTIES. IT WOULD'VE BEEN IN DIVIDED LIGHT DOOR. AND SO STAFF'S, RIGHT? I MEAN THIS, WHAT WAS THERE WAS CLOSER TO WHAT PROBABLY THE ORIGINAL WAS THAN THE, UH, THE REPLACEMENT DOORS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH NOW, UM, UM, DOWN THE STREET ON ROAD WOOD WHERE I LIVE, UM, IT, I THINK IN THE FRONT YARD OF THEIR HOME, THEY HAVE A A, IT CAME KIND OF, OH, I'M SORRY. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THE PHONE THING THOUGH. I HAVE SOME MORE. AND THEY'RE IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, NOT IN THE BACK. MINE LOOK LIKE IN THE BACKYARD. YOU, YOU CAN'T SEE THEM AT ALL. BUT THAT'S IN THE FRONT ON, ON MY STREET. IT'S STILL IN THE HYSTERICAL DISTRICT. OH. AND THEN THE OVER HERE ARE, UM, AL ALSO IN THE FRONT BELL NAP AND COME IT, AND THEN, OH, OKAY. AND THE OTHER ONE ON WHAT? THE OTHER ONE WAS ON BENU AND COME, BUT ONE WAS ON WHATEVER THAT STREET. I CAN'T READ UNDER THAT KIND, BUT THERE'RE IN THE FRONT THERE LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A SCREEN IN FRONT OF A DIVIDE LIGHT DOOR THERE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. BUT THE ONE ON MY STREET ON ROAD WITH, UM, THAT ONE'S ON THE FRONT TOO. THAT ONE ON THE, OH, ANOTHER BRIDGET, WHEN THE TREE FELL ON MY HOUSE. YEAH. BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HISTORY IS OF THOSE DOORS, IF THOSE ARE ORIGINAL, BUT THEY'RE CERTAINLY, UM, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF MINE EITHER THE ORIGINAL ONE, BUT WE KNOW THE STYLE, THE HISTORIC STYLE WOULD'VE PROBABLY HAD DIVIDED LIGHT DOORS. THAT'S ALL WE'RE SAYING. AND I WASN'T GOING TO D THEM TO LOOK LIKE WOOD, LIKE IN THE PICTURE. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PICTURE? OH, IN THE PICTURE THAT J JUST, UH, IT, DANA TURNED A WHITE DOOR INTO A, A WOOD DOOR. I MEAN, TO LOOK LIKE A WOOD DOOR. MY, MY, MY HEAD OF PERSPECTIVE ON IT IS THAT, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE RIGHT ANALOGY, BUT LIKE TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT. SO, UM, BUT BUT YET WE DON'T HAVE THE EVIDENCE OF THE ORIGINAL HAVE HAVE YOU IN, IN, IN DOING THE DOORS THAT YOU DID. UH, ARE YOU CONSIDERING SCREEN DOORS IN FRONT OF THESE DOORS? OR YOU WANT I DIDN'T WANT TO YOU'RE LOOKING AT GLASS. OKAY. OKAY. IT JUST IN THE BACKYARD. I DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO PUT A GREEN DOOR. WELL, LIKE I HAD TO AND YOU CAN'T REALLY GO OUTSIDE OF THOSE DOOR BECAUSE YOU'LL, IT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE, IT'S LIKE, UH, YOU CAN NEVER GO OUT THE DOOR AND LOOK HAVE LONG FEET BECAUSE IT LIKE, UM, LIKE QUITE A STEP THERE. YEAH. AND IT GOES INTO THE MUD AND THEN IT GOES INTO THE ROCK. I'M INCLINED TO AGREE WITH STAFF THAT, UM, WHAT NEEDS TO BE PUT HERE ARE WOOD WINDOWS WITH, UH, DIVIDED LIGHTS. I THINK STAFF HAS THIS, RIGHT? I MEAN IT'S, IT'S, IT'S TOUGH BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY'RE BACK BEHIND THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, NO ONE SEES 'EM. BUT, UM, IT IS A PRETTY BIG DEVIATION FROM WHAT WOULD'VE BEEN TYPICALLY, UH, UH, PART OF THIS, OF THIS STYLE, WHICH WOULD BE DIVIDED LIGHT WINDOWS AND DOORS. SO, UM, I MOVE FOR DENIAL. AND EVEN THOUGH, OH, EVEN THOUGH THE OTHER HOME GUN IN MONTE VISTA TO HAVE DOORS LIKE THAT IN THE FRONT, AS I SAID, WE DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF THOSE DOORS. WE CAN'T RUN AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOOKING AT EVERY DOOR. I'M LOOKING AT THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY AND THOSE SEEM REALLY OUT OF PLACE. SO I THINK STAFF HAS IT RIGHT. I MOVE FOR DENIAL. [04:10:02] MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY, NAY, NAY. MOTION PASSES. SO I HAVE TO THANK YOU. DO I DO IT OR DO I HAVE TO, CAN I PUT THE OLD ONE GUN IN THE MEANTIME OR DO I, CAN I KEEP THEM THERE UNTIL I CAN GET 'EM FOR STAFF WILL WORK WITH YOU ON THE NEXT STEPS OR WITH YOU ON THAT. IF THE, IF THE, UH, OLD WOOD ONES ARE IN DISREPAIR, UH, AND THERE'S ISSUES WITH, UH, VERMIN GETTING IN AND OUT OR, WELL, I MEAN WEATHERPROOF, I COULD PUT PLYWOOD OVER IT AGAIN, BUT, UH, MY TAKE IS, BUT STAFF CAN WORK WITH YOU. I WOULD SAY LEAVE THOSE IN PLACE UNTIL YOU GET THE REPLACEMENTS. OKAY, THANK YOU. STAFF WILL WORK WITH YOU ON THAT. AGENDA. [B-33 19-8329 Address/Description: 926 LAMAR ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-649 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Bryan Sory/Stillwell Investment Group Request: Construction of rear additions, window replacement, and exterior maintenance and alterations City Council Dist.: 2] ITEM B 33, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 49 AT 9 26 LAMAR, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE CONSTRUCT, A 230 SQUARE FOOT REAR EDITION FLUSH TO THE EAST ELEVATION. TWO, CONSTRUCT A 68 SQUARE FOOT EDITION INSET TO THE WEST ELEVATION. THREE. REMOVE THE DIVIDER WALL, THEN ATTACHED PLANTER FROM THE FRONT PORCH. FOUR, TO REPLACE ALL ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH NEW VINYL WINDOWS. FIVE TO REPLACE THE FRONT DOOR. SIX TO REMOVE ASBESTOS SIDING TO REVEAL AND OR REPLACE WITH MATCHING WOOD SIDING. SEVEN TO REPLACE IN KIND THE CONCRETE WALKWAY AND DRIVEWAY. EIGHT TO PERFORM FOUNDATION REPAIRS. AND NINE TO INSTALL THE SIX FOOT REAR WOOD PRIVACY FENCE WITH AN EIGHT FOOT TALL PORTION ALONG THE REAR PROPERTY LINE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS B THROUGH K WITH A VARIETY OF STIPULATIONS THE APPLICANT HAS COMMUNICATED TO STAFF IN AGREEMENT WITH, UM, MOST OF THE STIPULATIONS AND THEY WILL REVIEW, UH, THE STIPULATIONS AT THEY WISH TO PROTEST AT THIS TIME. GOOD EVENING. UH, BRIAN SOY AND I'M THE, UH, PRIMARY INVESTOR BEHIND THIS ONE. UM, I THINK WE CAN BE BRIEF AND THANKS FOR Y'ALL STANDS SO LATE. UM, CAN YOU REMIND ME WE, UH, WHERE, WHERE WE WERE, UH, MISALIGNED? SURE. SO, UM, I BELIEVE THAT YOU WANTED TO KEEP THE WINDOW FENESTRATION OF THE HORIZONTAL BATHROOM WINDOW IN THE REAR WHERE STAFF STIPULATED THAT THERE SASH WINDOWS TO MATCH THE REMAINING, UH, HISTORIC FENESTRATION PATTERN. YEAH. UM, ON THAT BATHROOM WENT, SO ON THE, UH, EAST ELEVATION, THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE. UM, OUR THOUGHT WAS THAT THAT'S ON THE BACK. WE'RE ALREADY GOING ACROSS THE BACK WITH A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE. UM, NOT GONNA GO EIGHT, SO WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT. UM, BUT STILL IT'S SUPER NOT VISIBLE. SO, UM, THAT'S JUST FOR ADDITIONAL LIGHT. HAPPY TO FLEX ON IT. WE JUST DIDN'T THINK THAT, UM, THAT WAS HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT, UM, OF, UH, STAFF'S OPINION ON THAT. THAT'S JUST A, A SOURCE OF LIGHT, UH, FOR THAT BATHROOM THERE. I'M GONNA ASK YOU WHAT THAT WAS. SO YOU CAN PUT A WINDOW, UM, LIKE THE ONE YOU HAVE RIGHT TO THE LEFT OF IT, JUST TO KIND OF MAKE IT, YOU KNOW, UNIFORM. WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD DO? YOU COULD COVER HALF OF IT WITH SHEET ROCK FROM THE INSIDE IF YOU WANT. YEAH, WE SURE COULD. UM, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, WE, WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE THERE. UH, THAT SEEMED TO BE THE EASIEST WAY BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T REALLY LOVE A, A WINDOW RIGHT. IN THEIR BATHROOM. SO, UM, THIS WOULD JUST MEN LOVE, UH, WINDOW LIGHT, NATURAL LIGHT. WELL, YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO THERE. UM, YOU KNOW WHAT, UH, WE, WE CAN COME UP WITH A NORMAL LOOKING WINDOW THAT'S COMMENSURATE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEN WE WILL, WE'LL DEAL WITH IT ON THE INSIDE. HOW'S THAT? WELL JUST KEEP THE STIPULATION IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT STAFF WOULDN'T IF THEY DON'T COME. YOU CAN SHOW STAFF WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO. YEAH. STIPULATION FOR ITEM THREE, UH, TO APPROVE REMOVAL OF THE ATTACHED PLANTER, BUT TO KEEP THE DIVIDER WALL. DID YOU AGREE TO THAT? YEAH. ON FURTHER REVIEW, I, I GET THAT THE, UH, DIVIDER THING IS SIGNIFICANT PER THE PERIOD. IT MAKES THE FRONT PORCH SUPER AWKWARD AND DAMN NEAR UNUSABLE, BUT UM, BUT IT IS SIGNIFICANT ARCHITECTURALLY, SO WE'LL KEEP IT, UM, FINE. [04:15:01] AND UH, YOU'RE CONFIRMING THAT YOU NO LONGER WISH TO DO THE EIGHT FOOT IN THE REAR SIX FOOT ALL AROUND IS OKAY. SIX IS GOOD. YEAH, THAT'S ALL THE STIPULATIONS THEN. SO THEN THE ONLY, THE ONLY, UH, ITEM THAT WOULD BE CHANGED IN THEIR RECOMMENDATION? WELL, ACTUALLY NO, IT WOULD GO, HE WOULD, THEY'RE ALL GOOD THEN, RIGHT? I BELIEVE SO. A MOTION TO, UH, UH, APPROVE, UH, AS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. CASE [B-34 19-8289 Address/Description: 403 N HACKBERRY ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-615 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Mario Crosswell/CCP Premier Investments LLC Request: Installation of a front yard fence City Council Dist.: 2] NUMBER B 34, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 15 AT 4 0 3 NORTH HACKBERRY, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A FIVE FOOT TALL PRIVACY FENCE FLUSHED TO THE FRONT FACADE PLANE, AND INTERSECTING THE WRAPAROUND PORCH. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED FENCE AS INSTALLED BASED ON FINDING B THROUGH E. A SOLID PRIVACY FENCE MUST MAY BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY IF IT IS SET IN THE REAR, WHICH FOR THIS PROPERTY IS DEFINED BY THE SECOND FRONT FACING FACADE PLANE. ON A SITE VISIT ON APRIL 30TH, 2019, STAFF FOUND THAT A SOLID WOOD FRONT YARD AND REAR FENCE WERE INSTALLED AT 4 0 3 AND 4 0 7 NORTH HACKBERRY PRIOR TO APPROVAL. THE APPLICANT OWNER HAS COMPLIED BY REMOVING MOST OF THE FRONT YARD FENCE PORTION OF BOTH PROPERTIES WHILE REQUESTING APPROVAL TO MAINTAIN THE SIDE YARD FENCE AT FIVE FEET TALL ON THE PROPERTY AT 4 0 3 NORTH HACKBERRY TO BE HEARD AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE HEARING APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. MY NAME IS MARIO CROSWELL. I'M THE OWNER OF THE TWO HOUSES. I BOUGHT THIS, UH, PROJECT ALREADY APPROVED BY, BY THE CITY. I BUILD, I START BUILDING THE HOMES, UH, UH, ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. AND, UH, I HAVE DEALT WITH, UH, WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE, UH, OFFICE FOR THE LAST FEW MONTHS ABOUT THE FENCE. I REMOVE. UH, THE PROJECT HAD, UH, LOW THREE FOOT FENCE, LIKE THE ONE YOU SEE HERE ON THE LEFT, ALL AROUND THE PROPERTY. I WAS ADVISED THAT, UH, IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE APPROVED. SO WE REMOVED ALL THAT AND THE ONLY PART THAT I, THAT I WANTED TO, UM, ALL THE THING THAT YOU SEE ON THE LEFT WHERE THE FOR SALE SIGN IS ALL THAT IS GONE. I HAVE OH, YOU HAVE? PERFECT. OKAY. THAT'S THE WAY IT LOOKS. NOW. EVERYTHING THAT THEY ASKED ME TO REMOVE HAS BEEN REMOVED. THE PORTION THAT I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IS THE TWO PANELS ON THE LEFT. THAT, YEAH, THE TWO PANELS ON THE LEFT. BECAUSE THE THING THAT IS BEHIND THOSE, UH, WALLS IS ACTUALLY THE BACKYARD OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY. THIS IS A DEFICIENCY ON THE, HONESTLY, ON THE PROJECT OF THE HOUSE, BECAUSE THE PORCH IS ACTUALLY, YOU SEE THAT PART OF THE PORCH ON THE INSIDE? SORRY. YEAH. LIKE IF YOU SEE THE PORCH, IT GOES AROUND, BUT IF YOU SEE THE INSIDE PART OF THAT PORCH, IT'S ACTUALLY THE BACKYARD OF THE HOUSE. SO BY NOT HAVING THAT FENCE THERE, BASICALLY THE BACK, THE BACKYARD OF THE, OF THE, OF THE HOUSE IS ACTUALLY ON THE STREET, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE ACCESS FROM THE STREET. UM, ON THE PROPERTY ON THE RIGHT, WHICH IS 4 0 7, YOU CAN SEE ON THE PICTURE THAT THE FENCE IS NOT CONSIDERED A FRONT FENCE. IF I, IF I'M CORRECT, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A PORCH THERE. IT'S THE GARAGE OF THE, OF THE SECOND HOUSE. BUT THE PART ON THE LEFT IS THE ONE THAT IS COVERING THE, UH, THE BACK, UH, THE BACKYARD. ALL THE FRONT FENCE, ALL THESE FENCE THAT WAS THERE HAS BEEN ALREADY REMOVED. AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE, UM, ON THE NEW PICTURES, EVERYTHING HAS BEEN REMOVED. SO IT'S THOSE TWO PANELS BECAUSE THOSE SLIDING DOORS THAT YOU SEE ON THE, ON THE HOUSE, THAT'S THE ACTUALLY WAY OF GOING OUT TO THE BACKYARD OF THE HOUSE. I UNDERSTAND TOTALLY. THE, UM, UH, THEIR OPINION ABOUT NOT APPROVING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, UH, THE STANDARD SAYS THAT, THAT BACK, THAT PATIO, THAT PORCH SHOULD BE OPEN TO THE OUTSIDE AND THE FENCE SHOULD BE ON THE CORNER OF THE HOUSE BEHIND THAT TALL TREE. BUT IT'S THE ONLY BACKYARD OF THE, UM, OF THE HOUSE. AND, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A SLIDING DOOR. BEFORE WE PUT THE FENCE, WE ACTUALLY HAD FIVE BREAK-INS IN JUST TWO MONTHS AFTER WE PUT FENCES, YOU KNOW? THANKS GOD. WE HAVEN'T HAD, UH, UH, ANYTHING. SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST IS ACTUALLY THAT FENCE IS BASICALLY THE CONTINUANCE OF THE FENCE ON THE 4 0 7, WHICH IS FINE. EXACTLY THAT. [04:20:01] THAT'S THE 4 0 7, WHERE THE CURSOR IS. THE 4 0 3 IS NEXT. WHERE EXACTLY THOSE TWO? IT'S ACTUALLY THE TWO BIG PANELS. YEAH, THOSE TWO, THE ONE ON THE RIGHT BELONGS TO 4 0 7, WHICH IS NOT CONSIDERED A FRONT FENCE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A PA IT'S NOT A PORCH. IT'S A, IT'S A GARAGE ON THAT SIDE. HOW TALL ARE THOSE? IT'S FIVE PANELS. FIVE. FIVE FEET. IT'S FIVE FEET. YES. HONESTLY, WHEN YOU SEE THE PICTURE FROM THE STREET THAT, UH, THAT I BROUGHT, IT ACTUALLY LOOKS, I MEAN, AESTHETICALLY I THINK IT LOOKS FINE WHEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT'S ONLY ONE SOLID, UH, FENCE IN THERE. BUT I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THEIR POSITION. I JUST WANTED TO, TO BRING TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT THE REASON FOR THAT FENCE IS FOR THE PRIVACY OF THE ONLY BACKYARD THAT THE HOUSE, UH, HAS. BECAUSE IT WAS TOTALLY, I THINK IT'S A LACK OF, UH, DESIGN. THAT PORCH SHOULDN'T HAVE GONE AROUND THE, UM, THE HOUSE AND WE WOULDN'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM. AND THE FENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BE THERE IF THAT WAS NOT A, A PORCH GOING AROUND. THE, UM, THE HOUSE, THAT'S A VERY BUSY STREET, BY THE WAY. IT'S HACKBERRY. SO WITHOUT THOSE TWO PANELS, BASICALLY THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE, IT'S TOTALLY VISIBLE. THEY, THE ONE ON THE RIGHT, BECAUSE IT'S A PA IT'S NOT A PORCH, IT'S A, UH, PARKING PAD. THAT ONE DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM. IT'S THE ONE ON THE LEFT. I'M REALLY HAVING A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING. BUT CAN YOU AGAIN, PULL UP THAT OVER MAP? THAT'S, UH, THE SITE PLAN, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ONE WITH BOTH HOMES ON IT. RIGHT. AND HOLD ON. I MAY HAVE ONE. HOLD ON. MAYBE I'M NOT, MAYBE I'M THE ONLY ONE. I DON'T KNOW, SIR. SORRY. NO, I BELIEVE I HAVE, UH, HOLD ON. YES. YEAH, I HAVE, UH, FLOOR PLANS OF BOTH HOMES. YEAH, BUT IT'S, SORRY, CAN I TURN? IT'S, UH, UPSTAIRS. COREY, CAN YOU ZOOM FOR ME? SORRY. IF YOU SEE, THAT'S BASICALLY THE TWO HOUSES. YEAH. SO THERE'S ONE PANEL ON THE HOUSE ON THE RIGHT? YES. AND THE TWO PANELS ON THE HOUSE ON THE LEFT, TWO PANELS AND THE GATE ON THE HOUSE ON THE LEFT. YES. CARPORT DOESN'T GIVE ANY EXTRA. THE CARPORT'S OPEN. SO THIS IS NOT REALLY GIVING ANY SECURITY, IT'S JUST VIEW. I MEAN, IT'S REALLY JUST BLOCKING THE VIEW. WELL, THE, THE, THE, THE PROPERTY DOESN'T HAVE ANY WINDOWS ON THE RIGHT. THE 4 0 7 DOESN'T HAVE ANY WINDOWS ON THAT SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. EVERYTHING IS ON THE BACKYARD. SO I MEAN, FOR SOMEBODY TO BE ABLE TO GET IN, THEY WILL HAVE TO GO ALL AROUND THE PROPERTY. LIKE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE PROPERTY, ALL THE WINDOWS ARE ON THE TOP RIGHT CORNER. THAT'S THE BACKYARD. BUT ON THIS ONE, IT'S THE BACKYARD. SO THE CASE WE'RE CONSIDERING IS A FENCE AT 4 0 3. YES. BUT IT EXTENDS UP AGAINST FOUR SEVEN, THE POLE OF THE CARPORT. CORRECT. AND THEN IF YOU GO IN, WALK IN THE CARPORT AND TAKE A LEFT, THERE'S NO FENCE. OR IS THERE A FENCE? THERE'S A FENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES. THERE'S A FENCE. OH YEAH, THERE'S A FENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES ALTOGETHER. YEAH. YEAH. LIKE IF SOMEBODY GOES INTO 4 0 7, THE ONLY WAY THEY COULD GET INTO THE HOUSE WILL BE TO GO ALONG THE FENCE THAT DIVIDES BOTH PROPERTIES, GO AROUND THE BACK AND THEN COME TO THE BACK PATIO. WHICH IS, AND WHY ARE YOU EXTENDING IT OVER TO THE, TO THAT POLE OF THE CARPORT? 'CAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY, SORRY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. THAT'S NOT THE 4 0 3. WHY ARE YOU NOT FINISHING THE FENCE WHERE THE COMMON FENCE IS? THAT GOES IN BETWEEN THE TWO LOTS. TURNING THE CORNER THERE. IS THERE A FENCE RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU PUT YOUR FINGER RIGHT NOW? YEAH, THE RIGHT. IS THERE A FENCE RIGHT THERE? THAT'S [04:25:01] THE LINE OF THE CARPORT. THE FENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES IS ONE PANEL OVER FROM THE CARPORT? YES. SO THERE'S THREE PANELS MAKING UP THE FENCE. YES. ONE PANEL BELONGS TO 4 0 7, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT WAS NOT, UH, THAT'S THE ONE I'M ASKING. WHY DO YOU KEEP THAT PANEL ON 4 0 7? WELL, IF IT WAS NOT THERE, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY OPEN TO THE, TO THE BACK. SO YOU HAVE A FIVE FOOT, LIKE LITTLE WALKWAY THAT'S, IS THERE A FENCE BETWEEN THE CARPORT AND THE FENCE THAT'S IN BETWEEN THE TWO LOTS? NO, SORRY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. BUT THERE'S ONLY, I THINK, I THINK THE COMMISSIONER'S ASKING WHY ISN'T THERE A FENCE HERE TO BLOCK THE REAR BACKYARD OF 4 0 7 INSTEAD OF HAVING IT UP ON THE FRONT, MOVE IT BACK. YOU, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT 'EM SEPARATELY. SO THERE'S ONE COMMON FENCE ON THE PROPERTY LINE, RIGHT? IT'S ALLOWED ONE COMMON FENCE. YEAH. SO ONE OF THEM HAS A DIFFERENT FRONT THAN THE OTHER ONE. SO THE ONE AT 4 0 3 COULD THEORETICALLY BE CLOSER TO THE STREET. AND THE 1 0 4 7 SEEMS THAT IT WOULD BE BEHIND THE SLOPED ROOF. THE LOW SLOPED ROOF. SO RATHER THAN THE COMMISSIONER SAYING, RATHER THAN IT BEING A CONTINUOUS 1, 2, 3 PANELS, THE WAY THAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IT, IT SHOULD APPEAR TO BE ONE TWO, AND THEN THE PANEL FROM THE OTHER HOUSE WOULD BE BACK HERE. BECAUSE YOU HAVE A COMMON FENCE HERE THAT 4 0 3 ALLOWS, BUT 4 0 7 WOULD MAKE THE FRONT STEP BACK WITH THE BACK WHERE THE GARAGE WALL IS BACK HERE. SO WE GO LIKE THIS, LIKE THAT. AND THEN BACK THIS WAY. LET ME, UH, CONFIRM WITH STAFF, SEE THIS RIGHT HERE, 4 0 7 DEFENSE COMPLIES. AND THAT IS NOT PART OF THE APPLICATION HERE, CORRECT? CORRECT. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE 4 0 3 TO THE LEFT OF THE COMMON FENCE. THOSE PANELS CORRECT, THOSE TWO PANELS IN THE GATE. BUT IT INCLUDES ONE PANEL THAT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE PICTURE THAT GOES UP TO THE CARPORT OF 4 0 7. AND THERE'S ALSO SOME PANELS IN THE BACK RIGHT THERE AFTER THE CARPORT. THOSE ARE STILL THERE, CORRECT? THOSE ARE THERE. THAT'S A, THAT'S A COMPLIANT FENCE. AND PART OF THE CONTRADICTION TO THAT, I THINK IT, WHAT CREATES THE CONFUSION IS WHY WOULD THE ONE IN THE GARAGE BE COMPLIANT? AND THE OTHER ONE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE HE'S SAYING IS IN THE, THE SIDE YARD OUT OF THOSE, THOSE WHAT, WHAT HE'S CALLING THEIR BACKYARD ALMOST. WHY WOULDN'T THAT BE COMPLIANT? NOT THAT EITHER ONE OF 'EM REALLY LOOKS LIKE THEY SHOULD BE COMPLIANT, BUT WHY WOULD THE ONE THAT'S IN THE VERY FRONT OF THE GARAGE BE OKAY AT 4 0 7? AND THE ONE RIGHT NEXT TO IT IS RELATING TO AN ARCHITECTURAL FACADE ON THE STREET IN A PARALLEL TO THE STREET. RIGHT? LIKE THERE'S A, IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE NOT GONNA, AESTHETICALLY YOU DON'T WIN EITHER WAY. SO WHY IS ONE PORCH, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I'M, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE, ON THE STAFF SIDE, WHY IT'S NOT. NO, THAT'S IT. I MEAN, IT'S UNUSUAL FOR A FENCE TO TERMINATE AND ENCLOSE A PORCH. AND THAT'S KIND OF THE ISSUE HERE. I KNOW, I COMPLETELY AGREE. AND IT'S DEFINITELY AN ANOMALY. UM, AND THESE ARE SORT OF ISSUES THAT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT EARLIER ON WHEN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION CAME THROUGH THE PROCESS. UM, WE DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE SPACES WERE GONNA BE DEFINED AND ENCLOSED WHEN WE REVIEWED THOSE. AND SO THAT WOULD'VE HOPEFULLY INFORMED IT AT THE TIME. WELL, IS IS IT, IS IT'S, IT WOULD BE OUT OUT OF THE PURVIEW OF ANYONE. WELL, I GUESS NOT TO SUGGEST WE COULD SUGGESTING THAT WE WANT, RIGHT? BUT IT IT, TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, THE THING THAT THROWS THE, THE, THE, THE CONTINUITY OF THE FACADE OFF IS THAT THE POST IS BEING USED AS A FENCE HINGE. SO YOU HAVE THIS BROWN WOOD FENCE THAT WOULD HAVE CONTINUITY TO THE BUILDING, BUT IT'S INTERRUPTED BY THIS GRAY POST. RIGHT? SO IT IS ALMOST AS IF THE POST SHOULD HAVE BEEN A DETAIL OF THE FENCE, NOT THE, THE, THE POST, NOT THE FENCE. A DETAIL OF, WELL, LIKE THE POST SHOULD BE A DETAIL OF THE FENCE. WELL, SO THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT THIS, THIS IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE CONSIDERED A FRONT YARD FENCE. THIS IS TYPICALLY A, WHAT YOU SEE IS CONSIDERED A PRIVACY FENCE. UM, AND SO IF THIS IS THE TYPE OF FENCE THAT'S PROPOSED, WE WOULD WANT TO SEE IT IN A PLACE THAT WOULD TRADITIONALLY HAVE A PRIVACY FENCE VERSUS THE FRONT OF THE YARD OR CONNECTING TO A PORCH. SO RIGHT NOW, I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO GET SOMEWHERE, BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY GETTING SOMEWHERE. AND I TOTALLY AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ. THERE'S ALSO A DESIGN ISSUE AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. I MOVE THIS TO D R C MOTION TO MOVE THIS TO D R C I. SECOND. SECOND. THAT'D BE A SITE VISITOR OR [04:30:01] IN THE A MEETING. NO, I THINK WE CAN WORK IT OUT IN D R C. AND I DO THINK THAT THE, UH, YEAH, UM, I THINK WE CAN WORK IT OUT IN D R C. YEAH, I DON'T KNOW IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO. I THINK WITH THE TWO SITE PLANS, UH, IN A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING, WE CAN RESOLVE THIS. UH, SO WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. STAFF WILL GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU AND ARRANGE FOR THAT MEETING. CAN I JUST ASK ONE QUESTION? THE THING THAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT THE POST, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE POST THAT IS BETWEEN THOSE WOULD PARTS, RIGHT? YES. BUT, BUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET TOGETHER WITH THE COMMITTEE, HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT ALL THOSE DETAILS. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PUT THAT IN WOOD. IT LOOK BETTER THAN THE GRAY THING. YEAH, I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT, BUT YEAH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYBODY. [B-35 19-8305 Address/Description: 232 FLORIDA ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-644 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Monday Construction Request: Window replacement and fenestration modifications City Council Dist.: 1] CASE NUMBER B 35 20 19, 6 44 AT 2 32 FLORIDA, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO PERFORM THE FOLLOWING FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS TO THE REAR EDITION. ONE ON THE EAST ELEVATION REPLACED TWO GANG ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH WOOD WINDOWS TWO ON THE EAST ELEVATION, REPLACED THE SOLID DOOR WITH A FULL LIGHT DOOR. THREE ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION, REPLACE THREE MISSING ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH TWO SMALLER WOOD WINDOWS AND FOUR ON THE SOUTH ELEVATION. REPLACE TWO GANGED ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH DOUBLE FULL LIGHT DOORS. THE A OR STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH FOUR BASED ON FINDING C THROUGH D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT ALL NEW WOOD WINDOWS MEET THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOW REPLACEMENT, THAT ALL WINDOW OPENINGS AND SIZES AND LOCATIONS ARE MAINTAINED. FOR ITEM THREE, THE THREE WINDOW OPENINGS MAY BE REPLACED WITH A WOOD PRODUCT OF THE SAME QUANTITY, SIZE, AND LOCATION, RATHER THAN CONVERTING TO TWO SMALLER WINDOWS. AND FOR ITEM FOUR, THE TWO GANG WINDOWS MAY BE REPLACED WITH DOUBLE DOORS WITH THE SAME WIDTH AND LOCATION OF THE EXISTING OPENING. AND THEN, UH, STIPULATION THREE THAT THE PROPOSED WINDOWS FEATURE THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. AND THAT'S JUST THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS REPEATED. I MISSED THAT. , UH, . SO, OKAY, SO THERE'S THE PICTURE. GO BACK TO THE PHOTO, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF, PLEASE. OH, OH, JAY MONDAY, SORRY. AND, UH, THIS IS A, A SIGNIFICANT HOUSE ON THE CORNER OF FLORIDA AND STAFF, UH, IT'S BRICK. THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY IS THE REAR WOOD ADDITION. THAT WAS PROBABLY A PORCH AT SOME POINT. PARDON ME. UM, AND WHAT LET'S, SO THE TWO BACK TO, WELL, LET'S STAY THERE. THAT'S THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE. THOSE TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS ARE GONNA BE REPLACED BY WOOD, SINGLE LIGHT WOOD DOORS. BACK TO THE VIEW OF, OKAY, SEE WHERE THE STEPS COME DOWN THAT ENTIRE, HE, THE, THE MASTER PLAN FOR THIS HOUSE IS THAT THERE'LL BE A, A PORCH, A DECK, UH, STARTING WHERE THAT WOOD ADDITION IS, THAT WRAPS ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BACKSIDE. SO STARTING FROM THE RIGHT, YOU'VE GOT THE TWO EXISTING WINDOWS IN THE BRICK. IF YOU MOVE TO YOUR LEFT, YOU'VE GOT THE TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS, WHICH WE WANT TO REPLACE THOSE TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS WITH WOOD WINDOWS TO MATCH EXACTLY THE, THE WINDOW TO THE RIGHT ON THE BRICK HOUSE. UH, SINGLE LIGHT, I MEAN DOUBLE, DOUBLE HUNG, UH, WOOD WINDOWS, NO TINTED GLASS PER ALL THE, ALL THE SPECS TO THE LEFT, WHERE THAT ALUMINUM DOOR IS. AND IT'S A HOLLOW CORE DOOR BEHIND IT, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY, THEY'RE KEEPING THAT OVERHANG. AND WE'RE GONNA REPLACE THAT DOOR WITH A SINGLE LIGHT WOOD DOOR. AS WE TURN AROUND THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING THERE, YOU TURN AROUND THE SIDE, THERE'S TWO MORE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, AND THEY WANT TO REPLACE THOSE WITH A PAIR OF DOUBLE, UH, THIS DOES NOT FACE THE STREET. THIS FACES THE PROPERTY ADJACENT WITH A DOUBLE, UH, 6 0 6 8 OR 6 0 7, OH, I THINK, UH, SINGLE LIGHT WOOD DOOR, UH, THAT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD OUT TO THE PORCH DECK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BUILD, WHICH IS A BRIEF HISTORY OF THIS HOUSE. THE GUY'S OWNED IT 15 OR 20 YEARS, UH, THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO, HE DID A, UH, A COMPLETE FOUNDATION [04:35:01] JOB WITH PERMITS. THEN A YEAR AFTER THAT, HE DID A BRAND NEW STANDING SEAM ROOF WITH PERMITS. AND THEN HE, UH, WITH ME DECIDED TO DO THE, ALL THE, UH, UH, WOOD REPAIR AND EVERYTHING. WE WENT TO HISTORIC, WE GOT A, WE GOT EVERYTHING PASSED ON THAT. UH, AND THEN AS THEY GO ALONG, THEY KEEP ADDING. AND SO WHILE YOU'RE THERE, CAN WE DO THESE WIND, THESE WINDOWS? SO THOSE DOUBLE DOORS WOULD BE PUT IN WHERE THOSE TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS ARE TO HAVE ACCESS TO A FUTURE DECK. THEN AS YOU CARRY ON TO THE LEFT WHERE THAT BIG VOID IS, UM, THAT'LL BE TWO SMALLER DOUBLE HUNG WOOD WINDOWS, UH, THAT ARE GONNA BE IN A BATHROOM. AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE UP A LITTLE HIGHER. THEY'RE NOT THE FULL LENGTH, LIKE ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, AND THIS IS A DIFFERENT ELEVATION. UH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE INTENT OF, AND I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT STAFF WAS OBJECTING TO OR, OR RECOMMENDING. THEY MAY HAVE RECOMMENDED. SURE. STAFF CAN CLARIFY. UH, THE PROPOSED REQUEST GENERALLY MEETS ALL OF STAFF'S STIPULATIONS. THE ONLY ONE THAT WE'RE CHALLENGING ON IS, UM, CHANGING THE THREE GANGED WINDOWS INTO TWO SMALL BATHROOM WINDOWS. WE'RE SAYING REPLACEMENT IS, IS RECOMMENDED, BUT THEY SHOULD MAINTAIN THE THREE OPENINGS. THERE ISN'T ANY THREE OPENINGS. WAS THERE ORIGINALLY OR IS THAT JUST A WALL THAT'S OPENED UP WITH TWO BY FOURS? THAT'S JUST AN OPEN WALL WITH THE NO WINDOWS. THAT WAS A SOLID SOMETHING BACK THERE, BUT THAT'S, THERE WERE NO WINDOWS IN THERE. I'VE NEVER SEEN, IT WAS ALWAYS BEEN PLYWOOD. PLYWOOD HAD STUFF UP. WELL, ON THE INTERIOR, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO TELL IF IT HAD BEEN A WINDOW, IF THERE'S A HEADER ACROSS THERE. WELL, IT'S COMPLETELY GUTTED. AND IF I, IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE JUST COMMISSIONERS, IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE BOTTOM PLATE, IF THERE WAS WINDOWS THERE, A SIDE THAT SOMEBODY DIDN'T JUST RIP SOMETHING OUT, THERE WOULD ALSO BE MID STUDS, RIGHT? OR HALF STU. THERE'S NOTHING THERE. THERE'S JUST THE TWO, UH, TWO BY MEMBERS COULD HAVE BEEN THREE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, LIKE THE TWO ALUMINUM WINDOWS THAT WERE, IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE, THERE WOULD'VE BEEN A DOOR. NOT WINDOWS, BUT IT, BUT THERE'S NO HEADER OR ANYTHING THERE. SO THAT'S GONNA BE A FUTURE BATHROOM WHEN IT'S DONE. IT'S NOT ONE. NOW THE, LIKE I SAID, THE INTERIOR GUTTERS, THAT'S THE NEXT PART. I, I, UM, I'M OKAY WITH IT. UM, IT'S VERY UNCLEAR WHAT WAS THERE ORIGINALLY, BUT I THINK IT IS A BEAUTIFUL PROJECT, BEAUTIFUL HOME, AND I THINK THE OWNER'S DOING SO MUCH TO IT THAT IT'S GONNA BE REALLY PRETTY. UM, MY ONE QUESTION IS WHETHER A SINGLE LIGHT, UH, DOOR IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS HOUSE OR WHETHER IT SHOULD BE, UH, IS THERE A PICTURE OF THE FRONT DOOR OR ANY OTHER, UH, THERE ARE NO DIVIDED LIGHTS IN THIS HOUSE ANYWHERE, UH, WHETHER WE HAVE A, UH, THE FRONT DOOR, BUT NONE OF THE WINDOWS ARE DIVIDED LIGHTS, NONE OF THE OTHER. MATTER OF FACT, ALL THE EXTERIOR DOORS ARE BASICALLY HOLLOW CORE ROTTING JUNK. UH, BUT THE ALL, NONE OF THE WINDOWS ARE DIVIDED LIGHT. THEY'RE ALL SINGLE OVER SINGLE. AND YOUR NEW WINDOWS AND DOORS WOULD ALL BE WOOD. ALL WOOD MEANING NO TINTED, NO TINTED GLASS AND MATCHING, UH, THE STANDARD DIMENSIONS. ABSOLUTELY. AND PROFILES AND SUCH. ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. MAKE A MOTION TO, UM, APPROVE AS STIPULATED BY STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. EXCEPT FOR THE THREE E. YEAH, EXACTLY. EXCEPT FOR THE, EXCEPT FOR THE THREE WHERE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE OF, UH, PRE-EXISTING, UH, NUMBER OF WINDOWS. SO YOU APPROVE THE TWO. YES. SMALLER WINDOWS. YES. YES. I HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. COMFORTABLE IN THE AIRLINE SEATS. WE'VE BEEN OURS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE RECORD. AGENDA ITEM B 36 AT 8 0 3. BURLESON WAS APPROVED EARLIER IN THE AGENDA WITH STIPULATIONS CASE [B-37 19-8317 Address/Description: 115 QUEENS CRESCENT HDRC Case No.: 2019-648 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: Angela Blake/BLAKE ANGELA LUTHI & TIMOTHY LEE Request: Construction of rear addition, window replacement, exterior modifications City Council Dist.: 1] NUMBER B 37 19 OH OR 20 19 6 48 AT ONE 15 QUEENS CRESCENT. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, MODIFY THE SIDE ADDITION BY [04:40:01] REMOVING TWO DOORS, INSTALLING TWO HORIZONTAL FIXED WINDOWS AND RAISING THE CONCRETE SLAB FLOOR. TWO, TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION BY ENCLOSING THE REAR INSECT GARAGE TO FEATURE TWO DOORS AND FOUR FIXED WINDOWS. THREE TO REPLACE NON-ORIGINAL WOOD SLASH WINDOW ON THE SIDE ELEVATION WITH A FIXED VINYL WINDOW AND FOUR REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT OF ASBESTOS SIDING WITH NEW WOOD SIDING ON THE SIDE. ADDITION, THAT RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE THROUGH FOUR BASED ON FINDING C THROUGH F WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE SIDE ADDITION THE WINDOW SIZE AND CONFIGURATION THAT BETTER RELATES TO A METAL CASEMENT. WINDOWS OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE SHOULD BE USED INSTEAD OF A FIXED HORIZONTAL VINYL WINDOW. THE REAR CARPORT ENCLOSURE THAT A VERTICAL TRIM PIECE IS USED TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL INSET WALL AND THE NEW ADDITION FOR WINDOW REPLACEMENT. THAT THE NEW WINDOW SHOULD RELATE TO THE ORIGINAL CASEMENT WINDOWS OF, WITH DIVIDED LIGHTS ON THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE, OR BE AN IMPROVEMENT FROM THE WOOD SASH WINDOW. THE FIXED VINYL WINDOW IS CONSISTENT, INCONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AND FOR SIDING REPLACEMENT THAT THE SIDING ON THE NON-ORIGINAL ADDITION MAY BE REPLACED IF THE NEW SIDING RELATES TO, BUT DOES NOT HAVE TO MATCH THE ASBESTOS SIDING ON THE REST OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. IN EXPOSURE, HIGH AND LAP CONFIGURATION, CITING SPECIFICATIONS SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO APPROVAL. CASE COMMENT, UH, ON A SITE VISIT CONDUCTED ON OCTOBER 18TH, 2019, STAFF FOUND THAT WINDOW REPLACEMENT, FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS, INCLUDING CARPORT, ENCLOSURE, AND SIDING REMOVAL, WAS PERFORMED PRIOR TO APPROVAL AT ONE 15 QUEENS CRESCENT. THE APPLICANT OWNER SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION ON OCTOBER 24TH, 2019 TO BE HEARD AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE HEARING. INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE, ANGELA BLAKE. UM, I'M WITH MY HUSBAND TIM BLAKE. SO AS FAR AS THE SIDE EDITION GOES, UM, THAT WOULD BE THE ENCLOSED PORCH YOU CAN SEE RIGHT HERE. UM, THIS IS THE TWO OF COURSE WINDOWS. UH, AFTER WE, I RECEIVED THIS, UH, EMAIL FROM, UM, THE STAFF MEMBER WHO IS HELPING ME. UH, WE ARE REQUESTING JUST TO REMOVE THOSE THAT IS, AND SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WORKS. SO THAT WOULD, WE WOULD JUST REQUEST TO REMOVE THOSE WINDOWS FOR THAT ITEM. UH, STAFF IS STIPULATING TO FEATURE, UM, WINDOWS THAT RELATE TO THE METAL CASEMENT WINDOWS OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE. THE VINYL WINDOWS IN THERE RIGHT NOW WOULD NOT BE CONSISTENT WITH THAT. AND THEN, UH, THE APPLICANT RIGHT NOW IS, UM, PROPOSING TO REMOVE THEM INSTEAD AND FEATURE, UH, NO FENESTRATION PATTERN ON THE SIDE EDITION. ARE THERE OTHER VINYL WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, LIKE THE ONE JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THE, THAT, IS THAT A NEW VINYL WINDOW? YES. YES. AND THAT WAS A WOOD FRAMED WINDOW ORIGINALLY. WELL, WHEN WE PURCHASED THE HOUSE 10 YEARS AGO, UM, THIS IS THE ONLY, THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY, UM, WOOD FRAME WINDOW YOU CAN SEE TO THE RIGHT. THOSE ARE ALL METAL CASEMENT WINDOWS. MM-HMM. WITH DIVIDED LIGHT. UM, AND THOSE, SO THERE'S A, THERE'S THAT ONE'S ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AND THERE'S ALSO ONE ON THE FRONT, UH, PORCH, UM, AS WELL AS IN THE, THE, UH, OUR BEDROOM. UM, AND THEN ON THE SIDE OF THE BEDROOM, THEY HAD REPLACED IT WITH THE VINYL WINDOW, UH, WHERE THERE WAS A WINDOW UNIT IN THAT, UM, IN THAT WINDOW. BUT THAT'S NOT THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE THAT WE'RE, THAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT, THIS IS ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE, OR THIS ALUMINUM WINDOW OR THIS, UH, VINYL WINDOW ON THE SIDE THAT WAS REPLACING A NON HISTORIC, NON-ORIGINAL WOOD SASH WINDOW. STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF REPLACEMENT OF THE NON HISTORIC FEATURE. HOWEVER, IT SHOULD BE A WINDOW THAT RELATES TO THE METAL CASEMENT WINDOW, SUCH AS A ALUMINUM WINDOW WITH DIVIDED LIGHTS. AND THEN BEYOND THE, THE ENCLOSED PORCH, UH, ARE ALL OF THESE NEW DOORS AND WINDOWS? YES, THOSE ARE NEW DOORS AND WINDOWS THAT USED TO BE A CARPORT. AND SO IT WAS WITH THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE OF THE ROOF WHEN WE PURCHASED IT. UM, AND SO THAT'S AN ENCLOSURE, AND YOU CAN, AND THIS IS THE PICTURE OF THE HOUSE WHEN WE FIRST PURCHASED IT. AND SO YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A, SOME LATTICE WORK, UM, WITH TWO, I THINK, UH, PECAN CEDAR OR CEDAR TREES HOLDING UP THAT SIDE OF THE HOUSE. UM, AND SO IT'S NOT REALLY WELL DONE, BUT THE, THE, THERE'S THE CARPORT, UM, AS WELL. AND THIS IS ALL FROM THE VERY BACK OF THE STRUCTURE. YOU CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE STREET. AND FOR THAT ITEM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT, UH, VERTICAL TRIM PIECES ARE USED TO MARK THE ORIGINAL INSET FEATURE. AND I, IT SOUNDS LIKE I CAN GET WITH, UH, THIS MEMBER OF STAFF THAT'S HELPED ASSISTING US WITH WHAT EXACTLY THE VERTICAL TRIM PIECE NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE, NEEDS TO LOOK LIKE AND WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO. UM, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THIS STRUCTURE WAS ORIGINAL TO THE HOUSE WHEN IT WAS BUILT IN 48. UM, AND THEN, UM, LIKE I SAID, WE'RE JUST ENCLOSING [04:45:02] THE PORTION THAT IT WAS THE CARPORT NEW WINDOWS ALONG THERE. ARE THEY, UH, VINYL? I BELIEVE SO, YES. THEY'RE CASEMENT WINDOWS. 'CAUSE VINYL IS GENERALLY NOT APPROVED FOR HISTORIC STRUCTURES OR IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. IT'S, UM, ITS NON ORIGINAL MATERIAL. AND IF YOU'RE DOING AN ADDITION WITH WINDOWS AND DOORS, THEN YOU GO WITH SOMETHING THAT IS MORE COMPATIBLE WITH WHAT POSITION, WHAT IS THAT RECOMMENDING? YOU FEATURE WINDOWS THAT ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE, WHICH, UM, WOULD BE AN ALUMINUM WINDOW WITH DIVIDED LIGHTS. OKAY. 'CAUSE THAT WASN'T CLEAR IN MY, IN THE EMAIL THAT I RECEIVED ON THE REAR EDITION WHERE IT'S FACE, WHERE IT'S COVERING THE CARPORT, UM, OPENING STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL AS PROPOSED WITH JUST, UH, UM, THE VERTICAL TRIM PIECE BECAUSE IT'S NOT, IT'S MINIMALLY VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY, BUT THE WINDOW IN THIS PICTURE AS WELL AS THE SIDE EDITION WINDOWS, THOSE SHOULD BE, UH, RECTIFIED WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS. SO AGAIN, WE WOULD PROPOSE JUST TO TAKE OUT THOSE TWO, UM, HORIZONTAL WINDOWS THERE AT THE TOP. UH, 'CAUSE IT USED TO BE A PORCH AND THEN IT WAS ENCLOSED OF COURSE BEFORE WE PURCHASED IT. UM, AND UH, REPLACING THAT WINDOW, UM, IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE HAD TALKED ABOUT AND THAT WOULD BE FINE. WE CAN DO THAT. UM, BUT WE WOULD JUST PROPOSE TO ELIMINATE THOSE TWO HORIZONTAL. I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THERE? THOSE TWO WINDOWS? WHAT WAS THERE? THIS WAS A, UH, LIKE I SAID, IT WAS A PORCH. AND THAT IS THIS, THERE'S, THERE'S DOORS LEADING INTO THIS HOUSE THAT HAVE NO DOORS THERE. THAT USED TO BE, I, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S, IT'S A REALLY, A VERY CHEAP, UM, WINDOW THAT KEPT NOTHING OUT. UM, AND IF YOU CAN SEE AROUND THAT, THERE IS A WINDOW RIGHT THERE THAT'S, OR SORRY, A DOOR RIGHT THERE. SO YOU GO UP THE DRIVEWAY, YOU KIND OF LOOK AROUND AND THEN THERE'S THE ENTRANCE INTO THE HOUSE. THAT WAS USUALLY THE ONE WE USED. STAFF IS NOT RECOMMENDING, REMOVING THAT. YOU'RE RECOMMENDING REPLACING THAT RIGHT BACK BECAUSE IT'S A NON HISTORIC SIDE EDITION STAFF IS A LITTLE BIT MORE LENIENT ON IT'S MODIFICATION, BUT UM, IT SHOULD FEATURE WINDOWS OR FENESTRATION PATTERN THAT MATCHES THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, THE COMMISSION CAN ENTERTAIN, UH, REMOVING ALL FENESTRATION ON THAT SIDE, BUT STAFF WOULD STICK WITH THE FENESTRATION PATTERN THAT MESHES THE STRUCTURE. SO THOSE WERE, LIKE I SAID, VERY CHEAPLY DONE. UH, WE'RE NOT REALLY CLEAR. AGAIN, IT USED TO BE A PORCH, I THINK IN THE SEVENTIES. SOMEONE ENCLOSED THAT. UH, AND THAT'S THE VIEW FROM, UM, WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH, UM, THAT AREA AND INTO THE, UH, THE KITCHEN. YOU CAN SEE ON THE OUTSIDE THAT THAT WAS PROBABLY THE ORIGINAL, WHAT THE HOUSE LOOKED LIKE WHEN IT WAS BUILT BACK IN 48. STEPH, THE, THE LONG SIDE THAT HAS THE BIG WINDOWS, UM, ARE THOSE PART OF THE, WHAT'S HERE RIGHT NOW? THE FOUR WINDOWS? SO THAT IS, IS TECHNICALLY AN ADDITION THAT, UH, BUMPS OUT FROM THE INSET ORIGINAL CARPORT. RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT IS THAT PART OF WHAT'S BEFORE US RIGHT NOW? YES. THAT'S PART OF THE REQUEST STAFF IS, UM, RECOMMENDING APPROVAL AS CONSTRUCTED FOR THAT REAR ADDITION BECAUSE IT'S MINIMALLY VISIBLE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY. AND, AND THE MATERIAL OF THE, OF THE WINDOWS IS WHAT? CORRECT. WHAT WHAT IS THE MATERIAL? IT'S VINYL. VINYL. OKAY. SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE WINDOWS THAT ARE THERE? YES. FOR THIS PORTION, YES. OKAY. SO IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THIS IMAGE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WHERE THE TWO UPPER WINDOWS, THE, UH, THE APPLICANT IS SAYING, WE'RE JUST GONNA REMOVE THOSE. AND THAT LEAVES YOU THE ONE WINDOW THEN TO MAKE THAT MORE COMPLIANT WITH THE, UM, WITH THE STEEL CASEMENT WINDOWS. AND THAT CAN BE DONE WITH A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT WAYS. EITHER AN ALUMINUM, NEW ALUMINUM WINDOW OR YOU CAN FIND A SALVAGE STEEL CASEMENT WINDOW THAT'S IDENTICAL TO THE, THE ONE THAT'S THERE. UH, THEY'RE QUITE PREVALENT NOWADAYS 'CAUSE PEOPLE ARE PULLING THEM OUT FOR VINYL REPLACEMENT AND THEY CAN BE REHABBED VERY NICELY FOR THAT SIZE. IS THAT, WOULD THAT SIZE BE AVAILABLE? 'CAUSE I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE. YEAH, SO WHAT THEY WOULD HAVE FOR A SIZE LIKE THAT, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A PAIR OF CASEMENT WITHOUT A, A FIXED THING IN BETWEEN. YEAH. OKAY. GOTCHA. UH, AND THEN I THINK THAT BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, YOU GOT GET THE STAFF AND CONFIRM THE [04:50:02] ANYTHING MORE. RIGHT. SIGN THAT IT'S OKAY. AND AS FAR AS THE, IF YOU CAN, I DUNNO IF YOU CAN HAVE ANOTHER PICTURE THAT PULLS OUT. YOU COULD SEE THAT THE, THE ONTO THE RIGHT OF THAT, IT'S TWO CASEMENT WINDOWS WITH A BIG SOLID PICTURE WINDOW IN THE MIDDLE. AND SO THAT'S WHY I WAS UNSURE ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THAT FIT INTO THAT, THAT SMALL OF A SPACE. SO THEY WOULD'VE MADE TWO, THEY WOULD'VE MADE A, A WINDOW WITH TWO OPERABLE CASEMENTS THAT WOULD BE NARROWER WITHOUT A FIXED CENTRAL PANEL. UM, SO I MOVE WITH APPROVAL OF STAFF STIPULATIONS AS DISCUSSED TODAY, UM, WITH THE, UH, CLIENT'S. UH, REQUEST TO, TO GO AHEAD AND REMOVE THE TWO HORIZONTAL WINDOWS ON THE, UH, ADDITION BUMP OUT AND REPLACEMENT OF THE, UH, ONE VINYL WINDOW THAT'S VISIBLE HERE WITH A MORE APPROPRIATE METAL WINDOW, UH, TAKING ITS CUES FROM THE EXISTING STEEL CASEMENT WINDOW. YES. MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED, SAY NAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. [B-38 19-8281 Address/Description: 1118 IOWA ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-597 Historic District Name: Knob Hill Applicant: Steven Lopez Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 38, CASE NUMBER 20 19 5 97. AT 1118 IOWA, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REPLACE 19 WOOD S WINDOWS WITH NEW ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO REPLACE THE FOUR NON-ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS WITH THE PROPOSED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS BASED ON FINDING C THROUGH D. WITH THE STIPULATIONS THAT THE WINDOWS MEET THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOW REPLACEMENT, THE OTHER 15 ORIGINAL WINDOW OPENINGS SHOULD FEATURE, SALVAGED OR RECONSTRUCTED WOOD WINDOWS OF THE SAME OPENING SIZE AND CONFIGURATION INSTEAD OF THE PROPOSED ALUMINUM CLAD WINDOWS. CASE COMMENTS, STAFF WAS NOTIFIED ON OCTOBER 1ST, 2019 THAT THE PROPERTY AT 1118 AISLE WAS SUBJECT TO WINDOW REPLACEMENT PRIOR TO APPROVAL. UPON CONTACTING THE APPLICANT OWNER AND APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED ON OCTOBER 2ND TO BE HEARD AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE HEARING. HELLO, I'M STEVEN LOPEZ, AND I'D LIKE TO START OUT BY SAYING I BELIEVE WE'VE DONE A GREAT JOB IN, UH, RESTORING 1118 IOWA AND BRINGING IT VERY CLOSE TO ITS ORIGINAL STATE. UM, THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS, WE'VE SPENT THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BRINGING IT UP TO CODE. UM, SOME OF THE THINGS WE'VE DONE SO FAR ARE WE'VE FIXED A SINKING FOUNDATION. UH, WE'VE USED IN KIND REPLACEMENT FOR THE DETERIORATED WOOD LAPS SIDING. UH, WE RESTORED THE CHIMNEY, IT WAS ABOUT TO TOPPLE OVER. WE'VE REPAIRED THE COLLAPSING ROOF AND ADDED ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLES TO, AND WE'VE ALSO REPLACED THE DETERIORATED WINDOWS WITH, UM, WINDOWS OF VERY HIGH QUALITY. UM, WE ATTEMPTED TO RESTORE THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS, HOWEVER WE WOULD, WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO REPLACE THE WOOD WINDOWS IN THEIR ENTIRETY, AND THAT PROCESS WOULD'VE BEEN VERY LONG AND OUT OF OUR BUDGET. UM, WE EXPERIENCED THEFT AND VANDALISM ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, WHICH PROMPTED US TO SECURE THE PROPERTY PROMPTLY. UM, SO WE'RE ASKING IF WE CAN COME TO A RESOLUTION IN THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. UM, IN THE INTEREST OF, UM, THERE'S A PICTURE IN HERE THAT, THAT, UH, IS REALLY A REALLY BEAUTIFUL PICTURE. I THINK IT SHOWS THE, THE QUALITY AND THE CARE THAT THEY'VE GONE THROUGH AN ALUMINUM CLAD WINDOW. AND I'D, I'D ASK, UH, THE COMMISSIONERS CONSIDERING THE INVESTMENT IN THE HIGH QUALITY WINDOW CONSIDER, UM, APPROVING, UM, THE RE THE, UH, REQUEST OF THE, UM, APPLICANT. AND HONESTLY, I'VE GOTTEN NOTHING BUT COMPLIMENTS FROM NEARBY NEIGHBORS AND PEOPLE PASSING BY ON THE WINDOWS. AND LIKE I SAID, PART OF THE REASON WHY WE WENT AHEAD AND UM, RE GOT THESE NEW WINDOWS IS BECAUSE WE WERE EXPERIENCE EXPERIENCING THEFT AND VANDALISM ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS. SO WE WANTED TO SECURE THE PROPERTY PROMPTLY. THERE WAS A LOT OF TAGGING ON THE PROPERTY. THAT'S HONESTLY STILL THERE. WHAT, UM, WHERE ARE THE WINDOWS THAT WERE ON SITE? WHERE ARE THE OLD WINDOWS? LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF THEM, SOME OF THEM WERE STOLEN AND THE OTHER ONES THEY WERE VERY DETERIORATED, SO WE DISCARDED THEM. AND, UM, DO YOU MIND PULLING OUT THE PICTURES ON THE, YOU CAN SEE THE EXTENT THERE WAS A LOT OF TERMITE DAMAGE AND WOOD ROT. THE HOUSE WAS SERIOUSLY NEGLECTED. LIKE I SAID, WE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY CLOSE TO, I WANNA SAY OVER 60,000 WE'RE ABOUT, I'D SAY 75% OF THE WAY DONE IT NEEDED A LOT [04:55:01] OF WORK TO HOME AND STAFF. DOES G'S WINDOW MEET THE, UH, WINDOW STIPULATION IN PROFILE? YES. AND THERE'S A LOT MORE PICTURES IF, IF YOU WANT TO KEEP PULLING THEM UP JUST SO THEY CAN SEE THE EXTENT OF ALL THE TYPICALLY, UM, AND OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A UP AND COMING AREA. THERE'S STILL A LOT OF CRIME, SO YES. UH, TYPICALLY IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS, UM, PLACEMENT IS GENERALLY IN KIND, SO WOOD WINDOWS SHOULD HAVE BEEN WOOD WINDOWS. YES. UH, WHICH IS WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING. I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT BASED ON THE HOUSE BEING NEGLECTED FOR ALL THESE YEARS, I BELIEVE IT WAS, UM, PUBLIC HOUSING. SO PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN THERE AND IT DIDN'T HAVE NO AC, A LOT OF THE WINDOWS WERE SHUT. AND ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, UM, THE NEIGHBOR NEXT DOOR, HE HAD TO GO OVER AND TELL SOME HOMELESS PEOPLE TO, TO VACATE THE PREMISES. YOU HAVE NO OTHER WINDOW OPENINGS THAT YOU'RE PLANNING ON. DID YOU HAVE ANY WINDOWS LEFT? HAVE YOU CHANGED EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEEDED TO, OR ALL THE WINDOWS ON THE PROPERTY ARE NEW? WE PROBABLY HAVE MAYBE LIKE, I BELIEVE TWO. AND LIKE I SAID, EVEN IF WE WERE TO TRY TO BUILD NEW WINDOWS FROM SCRATCH, IT'D BE WAY OUT OF OUR BUDGET. DID YOU GET A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS FOR THE WORK, THE REST OF THE WORK OTHER THAN THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT? YES. OKAY. FOR EVERYTHING. OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SAY EVERYTHING, BUT THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE THE WINDOW REPLACEMENT, RIGHT? NO, LIKE I SAID, BASED ON THE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES, WE WANTED TO, TO CLOSE UP THE PROPERTY. WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE, THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE HORSES ARE ALREADY OUTTA THE BARN. UM, THE GOOD NEWS IS, IS YOU DIDN'T PUT VINYL WINDOWS IN THERE. YOU PUT A HIGH QUALITY, UH, WOOD WINDOW CLAD, UH, TO HELP, UH, WITH THE WEATHERING. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE DOING A VERY GOOD JOB WITH THE SIDING AND THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF THE, OF THE, UH, THE PROJECTS. SO I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF, UM, APPROVAL AS, AS, UH, PRESENTED BY THE CLIENT BY THE APPLICANT. AND I WOULD SECOND IT. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSED SAY NAY. NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND IF THERE'S, IF THERE'S A ABILITY TO ADD ANYTHING TO THE RECORD OR, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A HISTORIC, UH, COPY ALUMINUM WOOD CLAD WINDOW, UH, IS ALSO A GOOD PRODUCT, UM, IN, UM, EXCHANGE FOR ALWAYS A WOOD, FOR WOOD. UM, THIS, A GOOD PRODUCT AND A GOOD PRODUCT CAN YIELD A GOOD RESULT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. NO PROBLEM. MOTION [Approval of the October 16, 2019, HDRC Meeting Minutes.] TO APPROVE OCTOBER 16TH. MINUTES. SECOND. SECOND. MOTION TO SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. MOVE TO ADJOURN. YOUR ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.