* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] UH, MY IS MR. CHAIR. DO YOU WANNA CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER? SORRY. NO, YOU'RE GOOD. YOU'RE, YOU'RE LEARNING IT FROM THE START. SO, WELCOME. UH, MY NAME IS JACK UP MOORE, CHAIRMAN OF THE BUILDING RELATED FIRE CODES APPEALS ADVISORY BOARD. CALLING TO ORDER THE MEETING AT 9 0 9, UH, ON, UH, FEBRUARY THE 10TH, 2026. SO, GO AHEAD. WOULD YOU'D LIKE TO, BEFORE WE WANNA DO THE ROLL CALL OR YOU WANT TO DO SOME COMMENTARY FIRST SAY, ROLL CALL. ALRIGHT, SO WE NEED TO DO THE ROLL CALL PLEASE. JACK UP MORE HERE. LEWIS. JEFF BYER. SCOTT BERGER. HERE. JOHN MARTIN. PRESENT. GREGORY MCFARLAND. ADRIAN CONTRERAS. SPENCER ZEL. HERE. GEORGE SAAS. HERE. EDUARDO DEL TORO. HERE. GARY KENTS. ROBERT HANLEY. HERE. LOUIS CULBERTSON LON. HERE. I'M SORRY. LON. APOLOGIZE. UH, MICHAEL RUST. HERE. MARK ROSS. HERE. BRIAN SMITH. HERE. JOE LEOS? HERE. WILLIAM BURRIS. PRESENT. KAREN CARPENTER. FRANK SITLER CHAIR. WE HAVE A QUORUM. UH, JUST REAL QUICK, IF YOU DON'T MIND. MY NAME IS AMIN THOMAS, DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE ALL UNDERSTAND. I HAVE TWO PRIMARY MEMBERS AND TWO ALTERNATES SITTING ON THE DAES, AND THAT'S OKAY. BUT WHEN IT COMES TO VOTE, ONLY ONE NEEDS TO VOTE. THE PRIMARY. IF, IF THE PRIMARY IS PRESENT, NEEDS TO VOTE, UM, OTHERWISE, UM, YOU CANNOT VOTE IF, IF, AGAIN, BOTH OF THEM ARE SITTING ON THE DAS. CAN YOU STATE WHO THOSE ARE SO THEY KNOW ONE IN THE AUDIENCE? YES. UH, SPENCER RAMSELL IS THE PRIMARY. UH, GEORGE LIBBA IS THE ALTERNATE. SO, SPENCER, YOU NEED TO VOTE. UH, GEORGE, YOU CANNOT VOTE. SORRY. UM, AND THEN, LET'S SEE WHO ELSE. I HAVE BRIAN SMITH PRIMARY. AND JOE LEOS IS ALTERNATE. SO, BRIAN, YOU, YOU VOTE? AND THAT'S IT. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, THIS TIME COULD WE GET THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JULY 2ND, 2025? I, UH, THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY. UH, UNLESS SOMEBODY'S GOT SOME CHANGES OR MODIFICATIONS, I MOVE APPROVAL. BRIAN SMITH. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE JULY 2ND, 2025 MEETING MINUTES. DO WE HAVE ANY, JUST, UH, ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES. DO YOU WANNA GO AHEAD WITH YOUR PRESENTATION? GOOD MORNING. UM, THANK YOU AGAIN AND WELCOME TO DSD. UH, MY NAME IS LEWIS . MIKE, YOU CLOSE. MIKE'S NOT ON. HELLO. ALL TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. SORRY ABOUT THAT. SO, UH, AGAIN, THANK YOU, UH, FOR, FOR, UH, BEING HERE THIS MORNING. WELCOME TO, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UH, MY NAME IS LOUIS VIEL. I'M THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ENGINEER FOR FIELD SERVICES UPSTAIRS. UM, I AM, UH, YOUR NEW BOARD LIAISON. UM, SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THE, UH, THE, UM, ANY EMAILS THAT DIDN'T GET SENT OR GOT SENT. UM, BUT I'M GLAD THAT YOU'RE HERE THIS MORNING. UM, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND, UH, WE HAVE SPANISH INTERPRETING, UH, AVAILABLE. GOOD MORNING. GOOD, GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. THANK YOU SO MUCH, LEWIS. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS? OKAY. HELLO. ALRIGHT, UH, WE'VE ALREADY GONE THROUGH, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE, UH, THE BOARD MEETINGS. UH, SO WE'LL GO STRAIGHT INTO, UM, UH, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, [00:05:01] WHICH IS THE APPEAL OF THE BUILDING OFFICIAL'S DECISION, UH, TO DENY AN EXCEPTION TO THE, UH, REQUIREMENT FOR A FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEM AS MANDATED BY THE INTER INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE IFC. UM, THE, THE PROPOSAL TO PRO TO MODIFY THE CALCULATED OCCUPANT LOAD UNDER SECTION, UH, 1 0 4 OF THE IFC, UH, WE BELIEVE THAT IT AMOUNTS TO A WAIVER OF THE CODE AND IS THEREFORE DENIED. SO, A COUPLE OF, UH, YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES THAT WE WANT YOU TO, UH, UM, JUST BE MINDFUL OF, UM, TO HEAR, TO HEAR THE APPEAL. DO WE HAVE, HAVE THE ADOPTED CODES BEEN INCORRECTLY INTERPRETED? UM, DO THE PROVISIONS OF THE ADOPTED CODES NOT FULLY APPLY OR DON'T FULLY APPLY? AND HAS THE, UH, THE EQUALLY, HAS AN EQUALLY GOOD OR BETTER FORM OF CONSTRUCTION BEEN PROPOSED? UM, THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT, UH, WE WERE NO, YOU SHOULD ASK YOURSELF, UM, OF COURSE, BE MINDFUL OF, UH, THAT THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CODE CANNOT BE WAIVED. SO, A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE, UH, THE PROJECT HISTORY AT HAND. UM, MR. OCTAVIO VIA MONTES. UM, HE, UH, THIS IS THE, UH, THE I 10 ICE HOUSE. UM, IT IS AN EXISTING BAR NIGHTCLUB. UM, IT'S LOCATED AT 95 18, UH, CONSOLE ROAD. UM, IT IS A TYPE TWO B CONSTRUCTION. UH, THE ASSEMBLY GROUP THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS A TWO. UM, SO JUST A LITTLE BIT, UH, ABOUT THE, UH, COURSE OF EVENTS AND HOW WE LED TO, UH, TO US BEING HERE TODAY. MINOR PLANS WERE SUBMITTED, UH, AND LOOKED AT IN THE AREA ABOUT OCTOBER OF 2024. UM, THE PROPOSAL WAS FOR A DEMISING WALL TO REDUCE THE, UH, FIRE AREAS AND REDU, THUS REDUCE THE OCCUPANT LOAD. UM, THE REVIEWER, UM, REVIEW WELL, THE, THE, THE, UH, PROJECT WAS REVIEWED AND, UH, DENIED. UH, AFTER MULTIPLE ITERATIONS OF GOING, KIND OF GOING BACK AND FORTH TRYING TO WORK WITH THE CUSTOMER, UM, THE REQUEST WAS ULTIMATELY, UH, PUT ON, UH, WHAT WE CALL THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REQUIRED, UM, FOR INCORRECT USAGE OF THE, UH, OR CALCULATIONS OF THE OCCUPANCY, UH, LOAD. ANY QUESTIONS THUS FAR? YEAH, I'M DOING GOOD, . UM, SO AFTER, UH, AFTER QUITE SOME TIME OF, UH, GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH THE, UH, THE CUSTOMER, UM, THEY ELECTED TO, UM, TO SUBMIT FOR A CODE MODIFICATION REQUEST, THAT CODE MODIFICATION REQUEST WAS SUBMITTED ON DECEMBER 22ND OF, UH, 2025. UM, THE, UH, THE CMR, THE WAY THAT WE, UH, THAT WE REFER TO IT, UM, IS FOR IN LIEU OF PROVIDING THE CODE, THE, THE REQUIRED, UH, FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEM, UM, THEY WOULD LIKE TO, UH, SO THE, THERE'S A LASER ON HERE. IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE, UM, THE DARK LINE, UH, SEPARATING, UM, AREAS, UH, TWO, UH, TWO FIRE AREAS. SO AREA A AND AREA B. UM, AREA A IS ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE WITH THE, UH, THE YELLOW, UM, LOOKING GOOD. SO IT SHOULD BE ON YOUR SCREENS THERE. UM, THE, UH, WITH THE YELLOW, UM, IN THE, IN THE WALKWAYS THERE, AND ZONE B IS FOR STORAGE AREA. UM, THE INITIAL TOTAL WAS ABOUT 11,800, UH, SQUARE FEET. UH, THIS WAS SEPARATED AS THE PROPOSAL. THE PROPOSAL IS TO, UH, UM, SEPARATE THESE INTO TWO FIRE AREAS, UH, AREA A BEING 9,000 SQUARE FEET, AREA B, JUST SHY OF 3000 SQUARE FEET. UM, THEY'RE ALSO PROPOSING TO ADD TWO ADDITIONAL EMERGENCY EXITS. UM, THOSE ARE, UH, CIRCLED IN RED, AND THEY ALSO PROVO PROPOSING TO, TO CREATE CLEAR PASSAGEWAYS AND OTHER, UM, STANDING, UH, IN THE, UH, STANDING AREA. THE WHAT'S, UM, HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW, UM, THESE AREAS WOULD BE PROHIBITED TO BE, TO STAND OR, UH, SIT IN THOSE AREAS. OKAY. I WANTED TO INCLUDE THIS IN THERE JUST SO FOR, UH, FOR A CLEAR VIEW OF, UM, OF THE AREA IN QUESTION. SO WHY ARE WE HERE? THE CHANGES TO THE FIRE CODE? UM, THIS, A COUPLE YEARS AGO, UH, BACK IN TWO, UH, 2006, UH, THE IFC MANDATED FIRE SPRINKLERS FOR NEW BARS, UH, AND NIGHTCLUBS WITH AN OCCUPANCY LOAD OF A HUNDRED OR MORE. UM, [00:10:01] HOWEVER, IN 2018, THE IFC MANDATED THAT FOR THE EX EXISTING NIGHTCLUBS WITH AN OCCUPANCY LOAD OF 300 OR MORE, UM, THEY HAD TO, UM, COME UP TO, INTO COMPLIANCE. OUR CHAPTER 11, UH, FIRE CODE AMENDMENTS, UH, PROVIDED FIVE YEARS TO COMPLY WITH THESE, UH, THESE REQUIREMENTS. SO JUST TO NOTE ON HOW, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, INTERPRETS THE, UH, THE CODE. UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR, UM, THE NET FLOOR AREA. FROM THERE WE GO TO THIS, UH, UH, TABLE IN THE IBC 10 0 4 0.5. UH, THAT GIVES US THE OCCUPANT LOAD FACTOR, UH, FOR THAT PARTICULAR AREA. UM, THE NET FLOOR AREA, UH, IS DEFINED AS THE ACTUAL OCCUPIED AREA, NOT INCLUDING, UH, UNOCCUPIED ACCESSORY AREAS SUCH AS CORRIDORS, STAIRWAYS, UH, RAMPS, TOILET ROOMS, AND MECHANICAL ROOMS AND CLOSETS. UM, SO AGAIN, IN OUR PARTICULAR, UH, CASE TODAY, UH, REMINDER OF WHAT, UH, A CORRIDOR IS AN A CORRIDOR IS AN ENCLOSED EXIT ACCESS COMPONENT. UH, IT DEFINES AND PROVIDES A PATH OF EGRESS TRAVEL. UM, I DO NOTE THE, UM, THE FACTORS THAT WE WOULD BE USING TODAY IN OUR DISCUSSION, UH, UNCONCENTRATED AREAS AT A 15, UM, OCCUPANT LOAD FACTOR, A 15 NET, AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT STANDING SPACE FIVE, UH, AN OCCUPANCY OCCUPANT LOAD FACTOR OF FIVE. SO THIS WAS PROVIDED BY, UM, THE, UH, THE, THE, THE APPLICANT. UM, I DO NOTE THE NON-FIXED SEATING AREA THAT IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO SEE, BUT THAT COMES OUT TO 6,000 THOUSAND 828 SQUARE FEET. SO WE WERE, EXCUSE ME, WE WERE PROVIDED TWO UH, TABLES. WE'LL GO THROUGH, UH, UH, BOTH OF THESE, UH, SEPARATELY. SO THE 6,828, UM, SQUARE FEET, WE'RE LOOKING AT AN OCCUPANCY LOAD OF 15, UH, FEET PER PERSON COMES OUT TO AN OCCUPANCY OF ABOUT FOUR FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY FIVE. UM, I DO NOTE THAT THE STORAGE, UH, ONE, TWO, AND THREE DO NOT HAVE ANY OCCUPANTS. WE DO BELIEVE THAT THAT SHOULD, UM, THAT SHOULD BE AT LEAST ONE OCCUPANT, UH, ACCORDING TO THE LOAD, UM, LOAD FACTOR AND THE WAY THAT WE'RE, UH, THAT WE DO OUR CALCULATIONS. UM, THE BAR AREA ONE, TWO, AND THREE, UM, THERE'S A LOAD CALCULATION OF ONE AND TWO FOR BAR THREE. WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT THAT COULD BE A, UM, AN ERROR AS, UM, YOU'RE NOT ACCOUNTING, YOU MAY NOT BE ACCOUNTING FOR THE PEOPLE STANDING AROUND THE, THE BAR AT THAT POINT, PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME. UM, ACCORDING TO THESE CALCULATIONS, WE'RE LOOKING AT AN OCCUPANCY LOAD OF 469. NOW, AGAIN, YOU HAVE TO, WHAT THE MAGIC NUMBER THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. 2 99 IS THE, THE, THE, UH, THE NUMBER THAT THEY HAVE TO STAY UNDER. YES, SIR. THIS, UH, TABLE IS THIS, UH, I'M SORRY, WILLIAM BURRIS. UM, THE TABLE THAT'S BEING PRESENTED RIGHT NOW, IS THAT CITY PREPARED TABLE OR IS THAT THE OWNER PREPARED? THIS WAS, UH, A, UM, SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. SORRY FOR THE, UH, TWIRLING YELLOW DEALS, MAKING SURE WE, UH, CAN SEE THIS. IT'S A LITTLE SMALL. ALRIGHT, SO THEY, UH, THEY ALSO, UM, SUBMITTED A SECOND, UH, TABLE. UH, THIS ONE DOES NOT. THEY TOOK OUT, UM, THE WALKING AREAS IS MY UNDERSTANDING. UM, THE GAME AREA ONE, THEY, UH, CAME OUT WITH A, UH, OCCUPANCY LOAD OF JUST 97. UM, THE SITTING AREA, WE'RE LOOKING AT A, UH, AN OCCUPANCY OF, UH, JUST ONE 18. UM, THESE, AGAIN ARE CALCULATED ON THE APPLICANT'S SIDE. SO THE, UH, WHEN LOOKING AT THIS TABLE, WE SUMMED UP ALL OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGES. WE CAME OUT TO A TOTAL OF 4,436. SO IF YOU REMEMBER THAT THE NUMBER FROM EARLIER 6,886, I BELIEVE WAS, WAS THE NUMBER. UM, THERE'S A DEFICIT OF ABOUT TWO, UH, 2,300 SQUARE FEET OF, UM, YOU KNOW, SPACE THAT'S NOT ACCOUNTED FOR ON THIS, ON THIS CALCULATION. UM, I WANT TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION ALSO TO THE COVERED PATIO. THE COVERED PATIO IS, LET'S SEE, COME ON. [00:15:01] SO COVERED PATIO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS JUST SHY OF 1700 SQUARE FEET. SO DUE TO, THEY HAVE A LIMITED USE DURING THEY THE YEAR. SO THEY'RE PROPOSING TO, UH, CLOSE OFF A, UH, PORTION OF THIS, UH, PATIO, WHICH IS NOTED HERE IN THEIR COVERED PATIO OF SE UM, SQUARE FOOTAGE OF JUST 753 SQUARE FEET. YES, SIR. I'M SORRY. UM, THE, I'M SORRY, AGAIN, UH, WILLIAM BURRIS, UH, THE PATIO, DOES IT HAVE ITS OWN INDEPENDENT EGRESS OR DOES THAT GO BACK THROUGH THE, UH, SO THEY DO HAVE, UH, EGRESS AT THE FRONT, AND THEN ONE TOWARDS THE BACK IS THE, UH, EXISTING DOORS. SO THAT LEADS US TO THIS POINT. UH, THE CODE MODIFICATION REQUEST, UM, WAS LOOKED AT ON THE 7TH OF JANUARY OF THIS YEAR ON THE EIGHTH. THE, UM, THE CMR WAS OFFICIALLY DENIED BY OUR STAFF. UM, THE BASIS OF DEN DENIAL, AGAIN IS MODIFICATION OF THE, UH, OCCUPANCY LOAD UNDER CODE SECTION 1 0 0 4. UM, THE APPEAL WAS THEN, UH, UM, UH, SUBMITTED AND, UM, APPLICANT APPEALED ON, UH, JAN JANUARY 29TH, WHICH LED US TO, UH, THIS MEETING TODAY. STAFF RECOMMENDATION, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDATION DOES RECOMMEND A DENIAL OF THE PROPOSED APPEAL, UM, AS AGAIN, IT WOULD AMOUNT TO A WAIVER OF THE, UH, OF THE CODE. DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS POINT? I HAD A QUICK QUESTION, BUT, UH, YOU'VE GOT TWO DIFFERENT CALCULATIONS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, I ASSUME, IS THERE, DID, UH, I'M ASSUMING Y'ALL HAD SOME KIND OF A, A WAY TO ACTUALLY MEASURE THOSE SQUARE FOOTAGES IN THE, UM, ON THE ACTUAL PLAN HERE? SO WE DO OUR OWN CALCULATION ON OUR SIDE. YES, SIR. AND THEN WE, UM, USING SOME OF THEIR PROVIDED, UM, THIS IS NOT THE, UH, THE, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T HAVE ALL OF THE, UH, NUMBERS ON THERE, BUT WE DO HAVE, UH, ONE WHERE IT DOES HAVE, UM, SQUARE FOOTAGES ON SOME OF THESE. OKAY. SO YOU DO HAVE A PLAN THAT HAS MEASUREMENTS ON IT, BASICALLY, CORRECT? YES, SIR. OKAY. YES, SIR. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME? SORRY, THIS, THIS IS MY GROSS. CAN YOU JUST KIND OF PLAINLY STATE WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THE REQUEST WAS THAT WAS DENIED? WHAT DID THEY WANT TO DO? I MEAN, I SAW ALL THE CALCULATIONS AND EVERYTHING, BUT WHAT, WHAT EXACTLY ARE THEY ASKING FOR? THEY'RE ASKING FOR A, UH, REDUCTION IN LOAD, UH, IN OCCUPANCY LOAD. UM, SO ESSENTIALLY THEY ARE, UH, TAKING OUT ALL OF THE WALKWAYS, UM, AND NOT INCORPORATING THAT INTO THEIR OCCUPANCY LOAD. AND THAT, UH, WILL BRING US BELOW THE, UH, THE 300, UM, OCCUPANCY LOAD FOR FIRE, UH, SPRINKLERS. SORRY, RO ROBERT HAMLEY LEWIS. UH, CAN YOU, WHAT'S THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S INTERPRETATION OF THIS APPLICATION? FIRE'S, UH, CHIEF, SO OUR INTERPRETATION IS THAT OUR INTERPRETATION IS THAT THOSE, UH, WALKWAYS CORRIDORS CANNOT BE SUSTAINED AS CLEAR, UH, AND THEREFORE, UH, IT'S NOT, UH, IT WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE TO, UH, REMOVE THEM FROM THE EQUATION. THANK YOU. CHAIR. CHAIR. MAY I KIND OF TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION? I KNOW THE QUESTION WAS, UH, TOWARDS THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. I JUST WANNA CLARIFY ONE THING. SO YOU SAW TWO SETS OF CALCULATIONS HERE. BOTH OF THEM WERE SUBMITTED BY THE OWNER OR THE APPLICANT. THE FIRST ONE, ALTHOUGH THAT'S NOT EXACTLY THE WAY WE CALCULATE THINGS, BUT WE WERE OKAY WITH IT. BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT'S OVER THE 2 99 WHERE SPRINKLERS ARE REQUIRED. SO THE APPLICANT DECIDED TO GO BACK AND CAN YOU PUT THAT SCREEN, THE FLOOR PLAN? SO THE APPLICANT CAME BACK, DID THE SECOND CALCULATION, BUT THE WAY THEY DID IT TO END UP WITH LESS THAN 2 99 OR LESS THAN 300 IS ALL THE YELLOW AREAS HERE. THEY'RE STA STATING THAT HAS ZERO OCCUPANCY LOAD, WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE A LOT OF IT IS OUTSIDE THE BAR. SO WHEN YOU HAVE A BAR, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE STANDING THERE ORDERING, DRINKING, WHATEVER, SITTING MAYBE OR WHATEVER. BUT THEY'RE SAYING ALL THE YELLOW AREA HAS ZERO OCCUPANCY LOAD, WHICH NOTHING IN CODE ALLOWS [00:20:01] US TO DO THAT. AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE DENYING THIS BECAUSE WE COULDN'T COME UP WITH THE SAME CALCULATIONS THEY HAVE. YES, SIR. THANK YOU FOR POINTING. WILLIAM BURRIS. UH, THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT. I MEAN, UH, THAT WAS GONNA BE MY QUESTION. UH, GO BACK TO THIS DIAGRAM. EVERYTHING IN YELLOW BEING DEDUCTED? THAT IS CORRECT. I, I THINK THAT'S INCORRECT AROUND THE BAR AREA. FOR THE FIRST FIVE TO SEVEN, FIVE FEET, IT SHOULD BE ROOM. YOU HAVE PEOPLE BACK AGAINST EACH OTHER. I'VE DONE DONE THIS FOR 30 SOME YEARS, AND, UH, I HAVE DEDUCTED SPACES, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR ASSEMBLY SPACES, BUT NO MORE THAN THE MINIMUM 24 OR 36 INCHES HALF THAT. THIS SEEMS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE. SO IF THERE IS NO OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, WE'RE GONNA ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO PRESENT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR LEWIS RIGHT NOW? OKAY, GO AHEAD. JUST BRING THE APPLICANT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, BOARD MEMBERS FOR BEING HERE. DO YOU HAVE A, A POINTER? YES, SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YEAH, WELL IDEA. EXCUSE ME, COULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME PLEASE, SIR? PARDON? YES. OCTA VIRAMONTES. WHAT IS IT? OCTAVIA VIRAMONTES. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BOARD MEMBERS FOR BEING HERE. SO, OKAY, WE'RE NOT REALLY REQUESTING TO WAIVE THE CODE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. UH, WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO APPLY THE, THE FACT THAT IT'S IZED TO SOMETIMES TWO MODIFICATIONS WHEN THERE'S LIKE, UH, SPECIAL CASES WHERE YOU CAN SEE THAT LIFE SAFETY IS MAINTAINED. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SORT OF PROVE HERE. UM, WE UNDERSTAND HOW THE IBC, UH, ASKS US TO CALCULATE, UH, OCCUPANCY. WE COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT BY SQUARE FOOTAGE. IT DEFINITELY DOESN'T MEET. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 460 PLUS, UH, OCCUPANCY LOAD. UH, IN THIS CASE, THE WAY THE THE ESTABLISHMENTS OPERATE, UH, DOES NOT GO OVER THE, UH, 300, UH, OCCUPANCY LOAD. UM, WE, WE HAVE WAYS TO PROVE THAT. UH, IT, I MEAN, UH, IN A BIG EVENT, IT DOESN'T GO OVER TWO 50. WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE, UH, A LOT OF THE ACTIVITIES THAT TAKE PLACE IN THIS PLACE IS, IS, IS LIKE THE GAMING ACTIVITIES. THEY HAVE A DART, UH, AREA. WHICH ONE IS THE BUTTON FOR? THE ONE? I WANT TO POINT OUT THE, OH, THE, UH, OH, THANK YOU. PARDON ME. HERE YOU GO. OKAY. AREAS LIKE, LIKE, LIKE THE ONES AROUND HERE ARE, ARE AREAS WHERE LIKE, UH, THEY, THEY, THEY PLAY DARTS. SO OF COURSE THERE'S SCENARIO WHERE PEOPLE IS NOT GONNA ACCESS, ACTUALLY THEY HAVE SEVERAL VIDEO SCREENS, LIKE, LIKE THIS AREAS HERE THAT ALSO, AND, AND, AND EVEN HERE, YOU KNOW, IN DIFFERENT WALLS, THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE AREAS WHERE THEY'RE PROJECTING GAMES AND, AND, AND VIDEOS AND DIFFERENT, UH, UH, THINGS THAT DO NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO BE THERE. AND, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, THAT IS POSITIVE ABOUT THIS BAR IS ALSO THE FACT THAT, THAT, THAT IT DOESN'T FEEL CROWDED. AND, UH, LIKE, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE PROOF THAT IT, IT NEVER GOES OVER THAT OCCUPANCY. EVEN THOUGH THE AREA COULD ALLOW FOR MORE PEOPLE, THE ACTIVITIES WILL NOT ALLOW THE, THE, THE OCCUPANCY. WE ALSO KNOW THAT IT'S A TYPE TWO B BUILDING. IT'S A BUILDING THAT, THAT AS WE KNOW WILL NOT EASILY CATCH FIRE BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT'S, IT'S IS CONSTRUCTED. AND WE'RE ALSO WILLING TO REDUCE ANY, ANY DANGER BY, BY CREATING THIS FIREWALL, SEPARATING AN EXISTING STORAGE PLACE TO EVEN REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY OF SOMETHING IGNITING FIRE. ADDITIONAL TO THAT, UM, THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT ARE HAVE, UH, CARPETING ON THE FLOOR THAT THAT'S ALSO BEING PROPOSED TO BE REMOVED. SO THERE'S ONLY CONCRETE ON THE FLOORS AS FINISHES JUST TO ADD SAFETY TO THE WAY THE BUILDING IS CONSTRUCTED. AND ON TOP OF THAT, UH, WE'RE ALSO PROPOSING TO ADD EXITS TO, TO, TO THE BUILDING. SO ALTHOUGH WE'RE, WE'RE WILLING TO SOMEHOW ASK THE AUTHORITIES TO CAP THE, THE CAPABILITY OF ALLOWING PEOPLE IN TO 299, WE WANT TO HAVE, UH, ENOUGH ACCESS FOR 2 9 9 PLUS. OF COURSE, WE'RE NOT ATTEMPTING TO, TO PUT UH, THAT AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN THERE. BUT, UM, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ASK HERE IS CAP, THE, THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING MORE PEOPLE IN THERE. UH, [00:25:01] I'M SURE THERE'S A WAY THAT THE CODE CAN TELL US, HEY, IF WE HAVE AN INSPECTOR OUT THERE THAT SEES ONE MORE THAN 2,299, WE SEE 300, YOU'LL BE SHUT DOWN. YOU WILL, I MEAN, WILL THROW THE QUEUE AWAY, WHATEVER. THAT'S WHAT THE, OUR, OUR CLIENT'S WILLING BECAUSE HE KNOWS HE CAN OPERATE WITH UNDER 200 AND AND 99 WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS. AND WE KNOW THE PLACE OFFERS THE, THE SAFETY TO OPERATE IN, IN THOSE CONDITIONS. LIKE I MENTIONED, BECAUSE WE HAVE ENOUGH EXITS, BECAUSE WE HAVE, UH, THE CONSTRUCTION METHOD WHICH IS SAFE AND ALSO BECAUSE THE PLACE IS GENERALLY NOT CROWDED. AND WE ALSO FEEL THAT THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT CROWDED HELPS TO THE SAFETY OF IT, ONE OF THE MANY POSSIBILITIES THAT AT SOME POINT WE, WE SAW WAS ACTUALLY PUTTING MORE FIREWALLS INSIDE THE BUILDING TO, TO TO, TO HAVE MORE FIRE SEPARATIONS. WE KNOW THAT'S, THAT'S A WAY OF KEEPING EVEN MORE OCCUPANCY THAT, THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR. BUT IT, IT, IT, IT BLOCKS REALLY THE POSSIBILITY OF PEOPLE INTERACTING AND GOING FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER AND ACTUALLY, I GUESS CONTROLLING WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PLACE. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE, WE'RE ASKING TO KEEP IT OPEN INSTEAD OF DIVIDING WITH MORE FIREWALLS. AND INSTEAD OF THAT JUST ADDING MORE FIRE EXITS. AND OF COURSE WE'RE HERE TO NEGOTIATE AND SEE, WE'RE WILLING TO, TO SEE HOW WE CAN MAKE IT SAFE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO THAT, UH, HUGE EXPENSE AT THIS POINT OF HAVING TO FOREST A SPRINKLER. AND IT'S NOT JUST THE COST OF THE FOREST SPRINKLERS, IT'S THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE TO DO A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO BRING THE, THE, THE WATER INTO THE BUILDING. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN ISSUES AT THIS POINT. AND I'M OPEN TO QUESTIONS . SO WHAT, WHAT IS THE, UH, JACK UP MORE HERE. WHAT IS THE, UH, CURRENT OCCUPANCY LOAD OF YOUR, OF YOU'RE, YOU'RE OPEN RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? YES. YES SIR. YES SIR. WHAT'S, I BELIEVE IT'S 4 68. 4 68. SO YOU'D BE REDUCING IT DOWN TO 2 99. THAT IS CORRECT. SURE. COME ON UP. I'M GOOD. YOUR NAME? YEAH. JOE, WHEN WE GOT THE ORIGINAL OCCUPANCY LOAD, SAY YOUR NAME PLEASE. MY NAME'S TIM EDSON, I'M THE PRESIDENT OF SAN LANTA INC. IN MA TIE, WHICH IS THE BUILDING. OKAY. WE'VE BEEN IN BUSINESS FOR 18 YEARS AND THAT BACK AREA RIGHT THERE WHERE THE FIREWALL IS, WE NEVER, WE GOT THAT 4 68 BECAUSE WE GOT THE BUILDING AND WE GOT THE BUSINESS IN, BUT WE NEVER EVER USED THAT AREA IN THE BACK THAT WAS DIVIDED. SO WE ALWAYS HAD THE 4 68 EVEN THOUGH THAT WE'RE NOT USED IN THE BACK AREA WHERE THE FIRE, THE FIREWALL IS PROPOSED. SO I WANTED TO TELL YOU THAT. SO YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD, YOUR PROPOSAL ALSO HAS THAT YOU'D REDUCE YOUR OCCUPANCY LOAD TO 2 99, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES SIR. I, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH 299 ON OCCUPANCY LOAD 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW I DON'T GO OVER IT. BUT BEFORE COVID, WHICH WAS FIVE YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, THERE WOULD'VE BEEN GIVEN TIMES WHERE I WOULD'VE WENT OVER THAT. BUT MORE BARS HAVE OPENED SINCE THEN AND A LOT OF MORE PEOPLE DOESN'T GO OUT THESE DAYS AND I DON'T GO OVER IT. AND THEN LIKE FOR AN EXAMPLE, I'M GONNA THROW THIS OUT THERE. I HAD A USC FIGHT, A PAY-PER-VIEW FIGHT ON THE 31ST OF JANUARY AND I HAD IT IN AND OUT COUNTER. I HAVE TWO DOORMEN AND I ALSO DID FIRE WATCH THAT NIGHT 'CAUSE I DOWNLOAD THE APPLICATION 'CAUSE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TOLD ME WHERE TO GET IT. SO I DID DO THAT. UM, THE TRAFFIC FLOW, EVERYBODY'S THAT EVERYBODY'S TALKING ABOUT, IT DOES LEAVE A LOT OF SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO EXIT IF THERE WAS A FIRE BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY'S SO COMPACT BECAUSE I HAVE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. BUT I DO WANNA SAY THAT I CAN GET BY WITH A 2 99 AND IF I MAY ADD SOMETHING THAT SAYS YOU WELL KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A LONG ENDEAVOR FOR ME AND I DIDN'T SO-CALLED KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD 'CAUSE I KNOW THIS WASN'T GOING AWAY. DEVELOPMENT SERVICE HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL TO ME. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT LIEUTENANT GRIFFIN'S BEEN VERY HELPFUL FOR ME. MS. SAY WITH THE CITY'S ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BEEN HELPFUL WITH ME. EVEN THE JUDGE WHERE I GOT THE TICKETS. I'M JUST TELLING YOU THIS, EVERYBODY'S BEEN VERY HELPFUL WITH ME AND I WANT TO TELL EVERYBODY THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND THAT REALLY COMES FROM MY HEART. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ON THAT. AS YOU WELL KNOW, I HAD TO SIGN THE LETTER AGREEMENT THAT THE CITY PUT OUT WHERE IF I GET DENIED I HAVE TO GET A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN SIX MONTHS AND IF I GET DENIED TODAY, I HAD THREE MONTHS TO APPLY FOR THE TCO BUT I DID SIGN THAT AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. I WANTED TO LET Y'ALL KNOW THAT AS WELL. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME, I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO TRY TO ANSWER 'EM. THIS IS MIKE RU. SO JUST A QUICK QUESTION ON THE HISTORY. SO THIS IS A OPERATING BUSINESS AND BASICALLY YOU'RE HERE BECAUSE THE FIVE YEAR UM, SAFE HARBOR FROM THE 2018 CODE REVISION HAS EXPIRED. AND THEN SO YOU'RE FOUND NOT TO HAVE THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM [00:30:01] BECAUSE OF THE OCCUPANT LOAD. IS THAT, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. OKAY, THANKS. YES SIR. BUT I HAD THE ASSUMPTION, WHICH IS A HORRIBLE WORD. I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT I WAS GRANDFATHERED IN AND THEN I GOT THAT LETTER AND THEN I THOUGHT I WAS STILL GRANDFATHERED IN AND THEN LIEUTENANT GRIFFIN CAME BY FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TOLD ME, HE SAID IT DIDN'T APPLY TO ME. SO THE NEW ORDINANCE APPLIES TO ME. AND THEN FROM THERE I'VE BEEN TRYING MY BEST TO DO WHAT I CAN TO GET THROUGH THIS. AND NOW HERE WE ARE TODAY. BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME SIR? SPENCER RAMS OUT. I MEAN YOU HAVEN'T REALLY DISCUSSED THE ACTUAL COSTS OF THAT, BUT I MEAN, I MEAN IDEAS BEHIND IT. YOU COULD SPLIT IT INTO TWO BUILDINGS AND HAVE AN OPEN WAY BETWEEN IT AND YOU COULD, WELL SOMEHOW THAT WOULD SPLIT YOUR OCCUPANCY AT THAT POINT. I MEAN, JUST A SUGGESTION OR IDEA THERE. WELL WE, WE LOOKED AT, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STAGES GOING THROUGH THIS WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND WITH MY ARCHITECT AND MY ENGINEER, IT WOULD BASICALLY TAKE PUTTING A WALL STRAIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE AND THAT WILL TOTALLY RUIN THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE CLUB. IT WOULD CONFUSE PEOPLE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE SIR? AND THEN THAT'S WHEN WE JUST STARTED GOING THROUGH THIS 'CAUSE WE EVEN LOOKED AT PUTTING THE WALL DOWN THE MIDDLE AND I WENT BACK TO THE CLUB AND I LOOKED AT, I WAS JUST LIKE, I MEAN I GOT 17 DARTBOARDS. IF YOU LOOK UP THERE WHERE THE DARTBOARDS ARE, WHICH NO ONE'S GONNA SIT IN FRONT OF A DARTBOARD, WHICH I'M SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT. RIGHT. BUT THE WALL DOWN THE MILL DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD SIR. YEAH, YOU GOT A CONCEPT ON ONE SIDE AND THE CONCEPT ON ANOTHER SIDE. YEAH. WHICH BASICALLY I WOULD, WHAT I WAS TOLD DOESN'T MEAN THAT PERSON WAS RIGHT. I WOULD HAVE TO GET TWO ADDRESSES LIKE SUITE A, SUITE B WOULDN'T I? IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH. I DON'T MEAN TO INTERJECT THE CITY, BUT UM, UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S INCORRECT. YOU, YOU BUILD THE FIRE BARRIER, YOU STILL HAVE THE SAME ADDRESS. YOU ONLY HAVE A DIFFERENT ADDRESS WHEN, SO THAT'D BE BASICALLY OFF THE TABLE THEN, RIGHT SIR? YOU'D HAVE TO GO WITH THE CITY ON THAT. THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH. UM, THANK YOU WILLIAM. YES. JUST TO CONFIRM, UH, IF YOU INSTALLED A FIRE BARRIER, YOU WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED TO HAVE TWO ADDRESSES. I HAVE GOTTEN BIDS FOR MY SPRINKLER SYSTEM SO I'VE BEEN DOING MY HOMEWORK. MY SPRINKLER SYSTEM'S GONNA RUN $220,000. PARDON? 220,000 AT ROBERT HANLEY. AND HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO AMORTIZE THAT WITH THE REDUCED RATES FOR YOUR INSURANCE PREMIUMS? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. UM, I'M SURE MY PREMIUM WOULD GO DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE A LEVEL. SO, UM, I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT. I THOUGHT I HAD AN ANSWER TO EVERYTHING BUT IT, IT WOULD GO DOWN SOME. BUT AS YOU WELL KNOW, I'M SURE YOU KNOW, NIGHTCLUB AND BARS OR INSURANCE ARE PRETTY HIGH 'CAUSE WE ALSO CARRY LIQUOR LIABILITY. I'D BE A FOOL NOT TO CARRY LIQUOR LIABILITY 'CAUSE THEN IT COMES AT ME. UM, THE $219,000 IS THE LOWEST BID I'VE GOTTEN FOR THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM AND I'M SURE EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM'S DONE CONSTRUCTION BEFORE SOMETHING ALWAYS HAPPENS THAT ADDS TO IT. SO I'M SURE I COULD PROBABLY ADD ANOTHER 20 SOMETHING, $30,000 ON TOP OF THAT. PART OF THE $219,000 FOR THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM. 74,000 OF IT IS GETTING THE WATER FROM THE SIDEWALK TO THE BUILDING. AND THAT $74,000 IS PART OF THE $219,000 I'M TALKING ABOUT. THAT ONE CAUGHT ME WAY OFF GUARD TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. 'CAUSE THEY'RE RUNNING AT ABOUT 34 FEET AND THEN YOU BUILD A RISE ROOM AND ALL THE PLUMBING GOES TO THAT, THE STUFF THAT GOES UP IN THE CEILING. THAT'S THE EASY PART. HARD PART IS GETTING WATERED TO THE BUILDING. AND THEN ALSO I WAS TOLD YOU GOTTA WORRY ABOUT, AND THAT BUILDING WAS BUILT IN THE 1980S. THEY COULD BEING ASBESTOS AROUND THE PIPING AND YEAH. AND THAT, THAT WAS THE FINAL BID. I REALLY THINK THEY'RE GONNA RUN INTO SOME PROBLEMS. 'CAUSE I MEAN I'VE NEVER BEEN SUCCESSFUL BUILDING SOMETHING DIDN'T RUN INTO A PROBLEM BECAUSE THERE'S NO EASY BUTTON LIKE HOME DEPOT. SO I DIDN'T WANT TO TELL Y'ALL THAT. BUT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. I REALLY MEAN THAT AND EVERYBODY HAS BEEN SUPER HELPFUL, ESPECIALLY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. SO JUST A QUICK QUESTION JACK UP, WE'RE HERE FOR MY LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF IT, BUT YOU CAN'T, LIKE A POOL OR PLACE PUT A, A MAXIMUM OCCUPANCY LOAD SIGN IN YOUR PLACE THAT SAYS NO MORE THAN 285 PEOPLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IS THAT NOT AN OPTION? SO CHAIR YOU [00:35:01] MEAN JUST TO PUT A SIGN AND DECIDE WHAT YOUR OCCUPANCY LOAD IS, IS THAT NOT NOT DECIDE WHAT YOUR OCCUPANCY LOAD IS, BUT RESTRICT IT TO AN OCCUPANCY OF SAY NO MORE THAN A HUNDRED PEOPLE IN HERE, NO MORE THAN 200, WHATEVER. SO THE, THE BUILDING CODE AND THE FIRE CODE IN CHAPTER 10 TELLS YOU EXACTLY HOW TO CALCULATE THE OCCUPANCY LOAD BASED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE BASED ON THE USE. SO WE REVIEW IT PER AREA. SO WE LOOK AT EACH ROOM, WHAT TYPE OF OCCUPANCY GONNA HAPPEN IN THAT ROOM AND WE USE THE TABLE TO CALCULATE IT. SO WE DON'T JUST COME UP WITH OUR OWN NUMBER SAYING, I FEEL OR I BELIEVE THAT THIS PLACE IS GONNA HAVE ONLY A HUNDRED PEOPLE OR 200 PEOPLE. I MEAN WE, WE, WE GO THROUGH THE CODE AND WE CALCULATE IT APPROPRIATELY. OKAY, I UNDERSTAND BRIAN SMITH. SO THAT'S WHERE I WAS GONNA GO WITH IT. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S REALLY FOR, YOU'RE ASKING IS THERE A COMPROMISE IN HERE, HOW TO MAKE IT WORK. YOU ALMOST HAVE TO GO BACKWARDS. SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT FROM YOUR DESIGN AND CHANGE SOME OF THE DESIGNS TO MEET THE INTENT OF THE CODE. SO YOU HAVE TRUE WALKWAYS WHERE THE TRUE WALKWAYS ARE, WHERE THEY'RE GONNA TAKE THAT OUT AND IT DOESN'T GET CONFUSING. AND IF YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME ADDITIONAL STORAGE, THEN YOU CAN DO SOME ADDITIONAL THINGS. BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO MODIFY THE SPACE TO GET TO THAT 2 99 NUMBER BY WORKING BACKWARDS AND FINDING OUT WHAT ARE THE IMPORTANT THINGS IN WORKING WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. AND YOU WILL NEED A DESIGNER TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH AND AND FIGURE THAT OUT. BUT YOU CAN'T GO BACKWARDS TO HEAT HIT THE INTENT OF THE CODE. 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST CHANGE AND SAY THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO. YOU HAVE TO GO WITH WHAT ARE THE TRUE WALKWAYS, WHAT ARE THE TRUE AREAS AND THESE TYPE OF THINGS THAT THE INTENT WANTS YOU, THAT YOU CAN DEDUCT AND MAKE IT WORK AND TRY TO KEEP A FLOW. BUT THAT'S THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN MAKE THIS WORK. 'CAUSE USING THIS SPACE THAT YOU HAVE HERE, YOU ARE GOING OVER. SO THE ONLY WAY TO GET UNDER IS A REDESIGN AND IT COULD KEEP THE MAIN SPACE. SO KEEP YOUR SAME AREAS, BUT JUST DOING IT IN A WAY THAT MEETS THAT INTENT OF THE CODE IS JUST MY OBSERVATION OF LOOKING AT IT. WHICH WOULD PROBABLY BE LIKE WHAT ME AND MARK ARCHITECT TALKED ABOUT MONTHS AGO WOULD BE ALMOST LIKE PUTTING THE WALL DOWN THE MIDDLE. SO, WELL, THERE, THERE COULD BE SEVERAL DIFFERENT WAYS AND I, YOU KNOW, WAYS OF DOING IT. YES SIR. BUT IT'S, IT'S UNDERSTANDING. 'CAUSE THE WAY YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW WITH THE YELLOWS, IT DOESN'T WORK WITH THAT CIRCULATION. I MEAN YOU COULD LOOK AT PROBABLY PICTURES AND SEE PEOPLE AROUND IT. IT DOESN'T MEET THAT INTENT OF THE CODE. SO IT'S USING THOSE INFORMATION OF HOW YOU CAN RESET THINGS TO BE ABLE TO USE MORE FOR TRUE HALLWAYS THAT AREN'T IN THOSE AREAS. SO YOU CAN TAKE THOSE OUT. BUT ANYTHING THAT MEETS THE INTENT OF THE CODE AS FAR AS WHAT CAN BE REMOVED TO BRING DOWN YOUR SQUARE FOOTAGE, JUST LIKE A A MEANS THAT IT'S ALL ABOUT SQUARE FOOTAGES TO GET FROM THE OCCUPANCIES AND SOME THINGS THAT YOU CAN REMOVE. SO IT'S A DESIGN ISSUE. IF YOU'RE NOT WANTING TO PUT SPRINKLERS, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO 2 99. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND SIR. UM, THIS IS ROBERT HANDS, ROBERT HAND. OH, SO THE, THE, IF THEY SPRINKLED IT, UM, I MEAN, UH, WHAT'S THE OCCUPANCY THAT THEY CAN OBVIOUSLY, UH, USE IN THAT BUILDING? I MEAN IF THEY SPRINKLE A PLACE, UH, THEIR, THEIR CURRENT OCCUPANCY WILL BE OBVIOUSLY INSTATED. NOW IF THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN HAVE EVEN MORE PEOPLE, WE CAN LOOK AT IT AGAIN. UH, BUT AT THIS POINT WE KNOW THEY HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY WITH 600, UH, NO 469. I'M JUST, IN MY MIND HAVING BEEN IN THE INDUSTRY YEARS AGO IS I ONLY GET 299 PEOPLE OR I GET 4 69 AND EACH ONE HAS A PRICE TAG ON IT. AND SO YOU'RE GONNA GENERATE MORE REVENUE WITH MORE PEOPLE. OKAY, GO AHEAD WILLIAM. MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, AS A QUESTION FOR THE CITY, UM, I'M ASSUMING, UH, NOT INCLUDING THE EGRESS BOARD PLAN LEFT, UH, WHICH IS THROUGH THE STORAGE THAT THE EGRESS WIDTH THAT'S PROVIDED, UH, ACCOUNTS FOR THE CURRENT OCCUPANT LOAD OR CALCULATED OCCUPANT LOAD AND ALSO THAT THE, UH, MAY EXIT OR ENTRANCE, UH, ACCOUNTS FOR 50%. AND THAT'S BEEN CALCULATED. THAT'S REALLY GOOD QUESTION, WILLIAM. UM, I DUNNO THE ANSWER TO THAT. I DON'T THINK WE RECALCULATED THE EGRESS AT ALL. SO JUST AGAIN, TO REMIND EVERYBODY, THIS IS EXISTING FACILITY. SO I, I UNDERSTAND THE OWNER'S COMMENT ABOUT HE THOUGHT HE WAS GRANDFATHERED. UH, WE ALL THOUGHT HE WAS GRANDFATHERED UP TO 2018 WHEN THE CODE CHANGED AND IT WAS A RETROACTIVE REQUIREMENT. THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, WITH YOUR HELP AND OTHER PEOPLE'S HELP, WHEN WE REVIEWED THE CODE, WE, WE AGREED THAT ASKING [00:40:01] EXISTING BUSINESS TO INSTALL SPRINKLER IMMEDIATELY IS NOT APPROPRIATE. SO WE GAVE THEM FIVE YEARS. OTHER CITIES GAVE ONLY TWO YEARS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT WE GAVE FIVE YEARS AND OBVIOUSLY THE FIVE YEARS CAME AND GONE AND THEY HAVEN'T COMPLIED. LIKE IN THIS CASE, THEY HAVEN'T COMPLIED. SO WE, WE DID NOT GO BACK AS FAR AS REVIEWING EVERYTHING ON THE PROPERTY STATING DO THEY NEED MORE EGRESS OR NOT, DO THEY NEED THIS OR NOT? UH, THEIR EXISTING BUSINESS AND THE ONLY RETROACTIVE REQUIREMENT IS THE SPRINKLER SYSTEMS. SO WE ARE NOT TRYING TO BRING THIS LOCATION COMPLETELY UP TO CODE TO TODAY'S CODE. THIS ROBERT HANLEY AMID, THANK YOU FOR THAT. UH, THIS COMMITTEE, THIS UH, BOARD, UH, WENT THROUGH THIS CONVERSATION WHEN THIS AMENDMENT CAME UP AND THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION, A LOT OF DIALOGUE AND PROS AND CONS. SO, UM, I APPRECIATE IT. I JUST FINISHED A PROJECT THAT WAS HAD THAT WAS BUILT IN 75 THAT HAD TO DO THIS, BUT IT WAS A RESIDENTIAL HIGH RISE. SO I KNOW THAT THE CITY, UM, HAD SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN ENERGY DRAFTING UP THIS ORDINANCE AND THEN WE ALL REVIEWED IT, MADE COMMENTS ON IT AND IT WAS PASSED. SO IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT FOR ME. UH, SINCE THERE, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY WAIVERS OF THIS FIRE SPRINKLER REQUIREMENT BASED ON OCCUPANT LOAD OR OCCUPANCY TYPE TO SORT OF SAY, HEY, UH, 'CAUSE YOU, I I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO THINK THAT YOU CAN CONTROL 299 PEOPLE. SO HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE THERE ON THE SUPER BOWL? FOUR OR 500? THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE THAT WE AS A BOARD ARE GONNA GO DOWN. UH, IF WE SAY WE'LL TAKE OUT ALL THE YELLOW AREAS 'CAUSE THEY'RE CIRCULATION. SO THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT AND COMMENTS. MAY I SAY SOMETHING? SURE RAY. SURE, GO AHEAD. YOU KNOW, WHEN THIS THING FIRST STARTED, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN A MINUTE, SO I, LIKE I SAID, I HAVE DOORMAN THAT THERE AND I HAVE AN INN OUT COUNTER AND I JUST, I KNOW YOU'RE ONLY TAKING MY WORD HERE SIR, AND NO, CORRECT. MY MOTHER TOLD ME MY WORDS, EVERYTHING. SO I'VE NEVER WENT OVER THE 2 99 BECAUSE I'M DILIGENT ABOUT KEEPING THE COUNT DOWN. AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I REALLY DIDN'T HAVE TO TURN ANYBODY AWAY. AND SUPER BOWL, I CAN TELL YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE I HAD, I HAD 167 PEOPLE. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, YOU KNOW, SUPER BOWL, MORE PEOPLE STAY AT HOME NOW AND BARBECUE THAN THEY REALIZE IT'S CHEAPER. THAT, THAT'S JUST MY PHILOSOPHY, THAT'S ALL. BUT I UNDERSTAND. BUT I DO WANT TO TELL YOU THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME 'CAUSE YOU, MIKE DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION AS WELL? I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, IF THERE'S NO MORE QUESTIONS, WE LET HIM SIT DOWN BEFORE WE START DEBATES THAT DON'T ENOUGH TO STAND THERE AND LISTEN. SORRY BRIAN SMITH, I HAD ONE OTHER QUESTION. WHAT, WHAT IS THE HIGHEST, BASED UPON YOUR COUNTING SINCE YOU'VE DONE IT, WHAT IS THE HIGHEST NUMBER THAT YOU'VE HAD TOTAL IN THE CLUB AT ONE TIME? ONE TIME OR FOR THE WHOLE NIGHT? ONE TIME. 2 67. 2 6 7. BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THE OUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME AND GO. IT'S ALL ABOUT CURRENT. YES SIR. AND, AND IT'S, IT, UM, THOSE, THE JAKE PAUL FIGHT, WHICH I HOPE YOU DIDN'T WATCH THAT FIGHT. SO IT'LL IT'LL THAT WAS A CIRCUS. BUT THANK YOU CHAIR. Y'ALL HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR ME? NO, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK SO. MAY I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? SURE, GO AHEAD. IF YOU GUYS DENY ME, I HAVE 72 HOURS PER THE AGREEMENT THAT THE CITY WROTE. ARE Y'ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE AGREEMENT? NO. THAT THE CITY WROTE TO ALL SEVEN EIGHT OF US BARS. IF YOU DENY ME, I HAVE 72 HOURS TO APPLY FOR A TEMPORARY TCO AND THEN THAT AGREEMENT GIVES ME SIX MONTHS TO GET A SPRINKLER SYSTEM, BUT I GET TO STILL KEEP MY DOORS OPEN PER THE AGREEMENT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE EVERYBODY? LEGAL? I CAN, I CAN WALK YOU THROUGH THAT. I'LL EXPLAIN IT IF, IF YOU WISH CHAIR AND BOARD MEMBERS. UM, SO, UH, I DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS 'CAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS ONE CASE, BUT LET ME GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE HISTORY. SO 2018 THE CODE WAS ADOPTED. WE GAVE FIVE YEARS. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DID, UH, EVALUATION ON ABOUT 600 LOCATIONS. THEY WERE NOT ALL BARS OR NIGHTCLUBS. THEY REVIEWED ALL THOSE 600 LOCATIONS AND THEY ENDED UP WITH ABOUT 30 OR 32 I THINK LOCATIONS THAT ARE NIGHTCLUBS OR BARS AND THEY ARE OVER 300. SO THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE CODE IN FIVE YEARS. FAST FORWARD IN 2024, WE HAD ONLY THIS FIVE YEARS ENDED OCTOBER 1ST, 2023, FEBRUARY, 2024. SO A FEW MONTHS AFTER THERE WAS ONLY 15 LOCATIONS THAT THEY DID NOT COMPLY. THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WORKED WITH THEM. UH, THEY WENT DOWN TO SEVEN LOCATIONS. THIS LOCATION IS ONE OF THOSE SEVEN. SO OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE OUT OF TIME. WE DON'T WANNA SHUT ANY BUSINESS DOWN. WE WANT, WE ARE PRO BUSINESS, RIGHT? WE UNDERSTAND THAT. AND SO WE HAD THE [00:45:01] CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, MY OFFICE WITH THE OWNERS OR THEIR REPRESENTATIVES. WE, WE TALKED AND WE SAID, OKAY, WHAT DO YOU NEED TO DO TO GET THIS DONE? SO OUT OF THE SEVEN LOCATIONS, THREE OF THEM REQUESTED 90 DAYS TO FINALIZE IT BECAUSE TWO OF THEM, THEY INSTALLED THE SPRINKLER. THEY JUST NEED TO TIE IN TO SARS AND DO INSPECTIONS. ONE LOCATION IS DOING A FIRE BARRIER TO HAVE TWO FIRE AREAS AND HE'LL BE UNDER THE 300 FOR EACH AREA. UH, THE OTHER FOUR, OR LET ME SAY THE OTHER THREE, SIGNED A SIX MONTH SAID, OKAY, GIVE ME A TCO FOR NOW FOR 2 99 AND IN SIX MONTH I'LL INSTALL THE SPRINKLER. THIS LOCATION CAN OF DID THE SAME THING WITH THE CAVEAT BECAUSE HE APPEALED. WE SAID YOUR SIX MONTH DOESN'T START TILL WE HEAR THE THE CASE. SO IF YOU GUYS DENY HIM, WE WILL HELP HIM TO GET HIS TCO FOR 2 99 SO HE CAN CONTINUE TO OPERATE WITH THAT LEVEL TEMPORARILY FOR SIX MONTHS UNTIL HE INSTALLED THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM. UH, UM, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY AMID, UH, JUST TRYING TO PROJECT INTO THE FUTURE. LET'S SAY THE SIX MONTHS PASSES AND THE SYSTEM'S NOT UP AND OPERATIONAL. WHAT IS THE OUTCOME OF THAT? WHAT'S THE RECOURSE FOR THE CITY? THE RECOURSE AT THAT TIME IS HE NEEDS TO SHUT DOWN AND UNTIL HE COMPLETE THE SPRINKLER SYSTEM. THE OTHER PART OF THAT QUESTION IS, IS HAVING GONE THROUGH THIS ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, UH, GET AN EXPEDITED REVIEW IF HE PUTS THE FIRE SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN THERE AND NOT HAVE TO WAIT. AN EX THANK YOU CHRIS. YES. YEAH. YES TO YOUR ANSWER. ONE, ONE OF THE SIX LOCATION OR ONE OF THE THREE LOCATIONS THAT THEY, THEY WANT TO DO SPRINKLER SYSTEM. THEY JUST APPLIED YESTERDAY AND I GOT AN EMAIL SAYING WE APPLIED, CAN YOU EXPEDITE IT? I EMAILED IT TO CRYSTAL YESTERDAY NIGHT AND SHE RESPONDED YESTERDAY NIGHT AFTER HOURS SAID YES, WE CAN EXPEDITE IT. THANK YOU. OKAY. SO REALLY OUR, OUR OPTIONS UP HERE, JACK MOORE CHAIRMAN, UH, IS THAT YOU EITHER HAVE TO REDESIGN YOUR ENTIRE RESTAURANT WITH A FIREWALL OF SOME SORT TO GET TWO SPACES TO GET UNDERNEATH THE OP, THE OCCUPANCY LOAD OR YOU HAVE TO DO A SPRINKLER SYSTEM. I MEAN OUR HANDS ARE PRETTY TIED UP HERE. WE CAN'T SET PRECEDENT. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, UH, FOR THESE DIFFERENT RULES THAT ARE IN CHAPTER 10. BUT YOU'RE LIMITED. YOU'VE GOT SEVERAL OPTIONS OR YOU SHUT DOWN. I MEAN THAT'S THE UNFORTUNATE PART ABOUT THIS FOR AN EXISTING BUSINESS. AND I, AND I FEEL FOR YOU AND ANYBODY THAT HAS A BUSINESS WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'RE WORKING, YOU'RE DOING EVERYTHING YOU CAN. YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONG TIME, BUT THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY SAID NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT ANYMORE. AND THAT'S HARD. UH, THAT PUSHES PEOPLE OUT INTO THE COUNTY AND ALL THAT. BUT IT IS THE, THE RULES THAT WE LIVE IN AND, AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY UP HERE LIKES IT, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS. YES SIR. UM, AS FAR AS REDESIGN IT AND PUTTING THE WALL DOWN THE MIDDLE, THAT'S WOULD NOT BE. YEAH, THAT'S A HARD ONE. SO YEAH, I'M NOT TELLING YOU HOW TO RE REDESIGN 'EM. JUST SAYING TO YEAH, THAT'S FIT WITHIN THE RULES. THAT'S SOMETHING YOU'D HAVE TO WORK OUT WITH THE CITY, YOUR ARCHITECT AND EVERYBODY ELSE. WELL I APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S TIME. ANYBODY THANK YOU. YEAH, BRIAN SMITH. I MEAN THAT IS THE EASIEST WAY IS THE WALL, BUT THERE IS ANOTHER WAY OF DOING IT WITHOUT DOING IT. BUT IT WOULD TAKE A DESIGN AND AN ENGINEER TO GO THROUGH TO PROPERLY INTERPRET THE CODE AS FAR AS YOUR WALKWAYS AND SUCH SO THAT THERE'S NO AMBIGUOUS, THIS IS AMBIGUOUS AS FAR AS WHAT YOU HAVE HERE. IT DOESN'T WORK. SO YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT TRULY SHOWS THAT THE CITY WILL GO, YES, THIS MAKES SENSE. IT'S PART OF THE INTENT OF THE CODE AND WORKS. SO YOU DO HAVE A COUPLE OPTIONS BUT YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME. BUT US AS A BOARD, WE WOULD'VE TO KNOW WHICH WAY THAT WAS GOING AND IF, IF IT WAS AS THIS. THIS IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. YES SIR. AS IT IS DESIGNED AT THE MOMENT. YEAH. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. OKAY, THANK YOU. I MEAN FOR EVERYTHING ALL YOU GUYS. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANYBODY? LET'S MAKE SOMEBODY, HEY. THAT'S RIGHT. WOULD SOMEBODY LIKE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION ON THIS SO WE CAN HAVE DISCUSSION ON IT? THAT'D FINE. GENTLEMEN ON THE OR INSURED, UH, BRIAN SMITH. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT AS DESIGNED AT [00:50:01] THE MOMENT AND NOT CHANGED, UM, THAT US AS A BOARD WOULD, UM, DENY THE APPEAL, UM, TO, UM, NOT PUT SPRINKLERS. OKAY. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. JOHN MARTIN, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR THE DENIAL. ANY DISCUSSION? YEAH, THIS IS MIKE RUST. I, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT REALLY FOR US TO OFFER DESIGN ADVICE ON THIS BOARD. UM, YOU KNOW, AS A BUSINESS OWNER, I FEEL FOR YOU, YOU KNOW, I I I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THERE'S NOBODY IN THIS ROOM THAT CARES MORE ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS THAN, THAN YOU DO. UM, BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT WE CAN'T JUST WILL, UH, AWAY THE DESIGN OF THE BUILDING AND, AND CUT OUT SQUARE FEET TO, YOU KNOW, TO, TO MAKE THE, THE MAKE IT WORK FOR THE DESIGN LOAD THAT YOU WANT. UM, AND SO, UH, YEAH, FOR THAT REASON, I'LL PROBABLY VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS MOTION, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, NOT, NOT, NOT WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT MEANS FOR YOUR BUSINESS. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE? YEAH, JUST, JUST AGAIN, BRIAN SMITH. I DO NOT LIKE MAKING THIS MOTION FOR IT. I THINK YOU WERE GIVEN SOME DESIGN THINGS IN HERE THAT WEREN'T APPROPRIATE OF HOW IT COMES ACROSS AND THERE ARE WAYS OF DOING IT. UM, BUT AS WE ARE PROPOSED HERE AND WHAT WE'RE GIVEN, UM, OUR SPECIALTY IS TO FOLLOW THE CODE AND WE HAVE TO ONLY GO WITH WHAT IS GIVEN HERE. AND, UM, SO AS DONE THAT, THAT'S WHY I HAD TO DO THAT PARTICULAR THING. BUT LOOKING AT IT, I CAN SEE THAT THERE ARE WAYS OF DOING IT, BUT THAT'S NOT OUR JOB. THAT'S OTHER PROFESSIONALS TO GO THROUGH AND FIGURE THOSE THINGS OUT AND GIVE YOU OPTIONS AS A BUSINESS OWNER TO MAKE THAT WORK. YES SIR. THANK YOU SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. ANYBODY, ANYBODY ELSE? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I. OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. LET SEE, WHAT DO WE GOT? UH, DIRECTOR'S REPORT. CAN I GET THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT PLEASE? MS. LEWIS, IS THAT GONNA BE YOU? YES SIR. ARE YOU THE ACTING DIRECTOR? UH, NO, I DIDN'T THINK SO. LEWIS, DO YOU HAVE ANY UPDATES? UM, JUST ONE EFFECTIVE. UH, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. GOOD LUCK. UM, EFFECTIVE APRIL 1ST, 2026. ALL BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS WILL DISCONTINUE ACCEPTING PHONE AND UH, VOICEMAIL TESTIMONY. YAY. JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU THAT HEADS UP. BUT OTHER THAN THAT I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. I DON'T HAVE ANY UPDATES. CRYSTAL? NO, WE'RE GOOD CHAIR. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. IF WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE, CAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT JUST BEFORE YOU DO THAT. YEAH, GO AHEAD. CAN SAY ONE THING? SURE. IT'S NOT NECESSARILY NEW BUSINESS, BUT, AND I DON'T WANNA BELABOR THE MEETING, BUT, UM, WHEN WE FINISHED THE LAST CODER REVIEW, WE TALKED ABOUT SEEDING A GROUP TO LOOK AT THE PERMIT POOLING PROCESS AND HOW IT AFFECTS, UM, BUSINESS OWNERS AND THE WAY THEY PULL PERMITS TO MAKE THAT PROCESS EASY OR AT LEAST FUNCTIONAL. UM, UH, AND SO, YOU KNOW, NOT, NOT TO BE JUST LIKE NOW NECESSARILY TO TALK ABOUT IT, BUT I'D LOVE TO SEE IF WE CAN'T SCHEDULE A TIME TO ACTUALLY SIT THAT GROUP AND MAKE SOME PROGRESS ON THAT. THANK YOU. THIS IS, UH, ROBERT HANLEY. IT IS 10:02 AM AND I MOVE, UH, FOR ADJOURNMENT. ALL THEM FRAN SMITH. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? ROBERT? WILLIAM? I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE, SORRY. WILLIAM BURRIS, I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE CITY, UH, ON THE ADOPTION PROCESS FOR NEXT. YES, SIR. WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION? ARE YOU READY TO GET STARTED NOW? ? IT'S, IT'S TIME. YEAH. IS THAT FORTHCOMING? YES. SO ICC IS STILL GOING THROUGH THE CODE HEARINGS RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? SO WE HAVE STAFF ATTEND AND VOTE, UM, IN APRIL, I THINK IN CONNECTICUT. UH, SO ONCE THOSE ARE FINALIZED, THEN THE ONLINE VERSIONS WILL GET UPDATED AND THEN THE BOOKS WILL GET PRINTED, PUBLISHED. UM, THEN WE'LL, YEAH, PROBABLY JULY THREE YEARS AGO WHEN WE, YES, THIS 2024 WE WERE BEHIND, I THINK ABOUT 18 MONTHS BEHIND. SO WE ARE LOOKING TO GET BACK ON SCHEDULE, UM, AND GET THOSE PENDING ITEMS, UM, BACK ON THE AGENDA LIKE MIKE MENTIONED. UM, AND ACTUALLY START REVIEW OF THE ENERGY CODE. UH, BUT THAT'LL BE AT A MEANS DIRECTION WHEN WE GET STARTED. UH, WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT [00:55:01] THE ONLINE VERSIONS OF THE CODE FOR YOU GUYS, RIGHT? SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO CARRY AROUND A BUNCH OF BOOKS. I SEE SOME HEAD NODS THAT, THAT MAY BE BENEFICIAL. SO WE'RE DOING A COST ANALYSIS OF THAT AS WELL. SHOULD WE FUDGE, SHOULD WE FUDGE THE NUMBERS? JUST SAY THE OH YES, ABSOLUTELY. THE NOT BOTH. WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA HOLD OFF ON THAT ONE. OKAY. SO WE'LL BE SENDING OUT INFORMATION ON THAT TIMELINE FOR ALL CODES. 'CAUSE THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE IS ALSO A PART OF THAT CONVERSATION. SO IT'S GONNA BE ANOTHER FUN, UH, COUPLE OF YEARS. SO WE'LL BE SENDING OUT THAT TIMELINE. THE CONVERSATION WILL BEGIN IN 26 AND THE FORMAL PROCESS WILL BEGIN IN 27. IT'S, WE ARE REQUIRED TO GET PREPARED, IF YOU WILL, ON ALL OUR CODE DISCUSSIONS INTERNALLY. UM, SO WE'LL BE DOING THAT ACROSS THE BOARD, NOT JUST WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, BUT WITH OTHER DEPARTMENTS AS WELL. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. . * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.