[00:00:20] >> THE MEETING IS NOW CALLED TO ORDER. (ROLL CALL) >> WE HAVE A QUORUM. >> FIRST ITEM IS THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES. ANY CORRECTIONS TO THE MINUTES FROM LAST MONTH? HEARING NONE, MAY I HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. >> MOTION TO APPROVE. >> SECOND. >> MAYOR: WE HAVE A MOTION AND MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES. (AYES) WE DO OR DO NOT HAVE PEOPLE TO SPEAK? READ THE ITEM 2. >> (READING). >> WE'LL GET THE STAFF PRESENTATION AND THEN HEAR FROM THE SPONSORING COUNCILMEMBER. GO AHEAD. >> I'M VERONICA GARCIA. DIRECTOR OF NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING SERVICES DEPARTMENT. TODAY, WE'RE GOING OVER A CCR ON SUPPORTING AND INCENTIVIZING MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING. THE CCR WAS SUBMITTED BY COLUMN WOMAN KAUR AND SUPPORTED BY DISTRICTS 2, 4, 5, 6. THE REQUEST IS TO LOOK AT THE CREATION OF THE PROGRAM TO SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT AND POSSIBLE INCENTIVES FOR MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING IN THE CITY. THE QUESTION INCLUDES MULTIPLE RECOMMENDATIONS, THE FIRST IS CREATING HELPING WITH PREDEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE FOR DEVELOPERS TO IDENTIFY LAND, THE SECOND IS TO CREATE A SINGLE POINT OF CONTACT WITHIN THE CITY TO PROVIDE THAT TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE FOR THIS TYPE OF HOUSING. AND THE THIRD IS TO LOOK AT CREATING PERMANENT READY DESIGNS THAT WOULD INCLUDE OPTIONS COMPLIANT WITH HISTORIC AND CONSERVATION DISTRICTS. NEXT WE'RE ASKED TO LOOK AT ADDITIONAL FEE WAIVERS AND OTHER INCENTIVES FROM THE CITY, WHICH MAY INCLUDE SAWS IMPACT WAIVERS, ABATEMENTS, GRANT FUNDS, LOW-INTEREST LOANS. FINALLY, WE WERE ASKED TO CONSIDER DEVELOPING AN ANNUAL TRAINING COHORT OR MENTORSHIP PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY FOR SMALL-SCALE DEVELOPERS. MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING IS A RANGE OF MULTIUNIT HOUSING TYPES, REALLY BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING AND LARGE APARTMENT COMPLEXES. IT CAN INCLUDE DUPLEXES, T TOWNHOUSES AND EVEN CASSITAS AND THEY PROVIDE HOUSING OPTIONS THAT SUPPORT WALKING NEIGHBORHOODS, RETAIL, AND PUBLIC TRANSIT. THE NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING SERVICES OUR TEAM IS WORKING WITH THE CONSULTANT TO HELP IDENTIFY AND DEFINE THE BARRIERS OF MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING DEVELOPMENT. THIS ANALYSIS WILL LOOK AT BARRIERS THAT ARE IN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE TO HELP PREVENT CREATING THESE HOUSING TYPES MORE EASILY. WE'RE WORKING NOW WITH LOCAL DEVELOPERS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT THE COUNTRY CODE LIMITATIONS AND CHALLENGES MAY BE AND ANY UDC RECOMMENDATIONS WILL BE COORDINATED WITH THE HOUSING COMMISSIONS REMOVING BARRIER SUB-COMMITTEE AND PREPARATION FOR THE UPCOMING 2027UDC AMENDMENT CYCLE. AFFORDABLE MISSING MIDDLE PROJECTS ARE CURRENTLY ELIGIBLE TO APPLY FOR EXISTING INCENTIVES OF WHICH THERE ARE SEVERAL. THE FIRST IS FEE WAIVERS, WHICH ARE AWARDED TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECTS. WE ALSO HAVE OUR GAP FUNDS AVAILABLE. THOSE ARE AWARDED ON A COMPETITIVE PROCESS TO A LARGE VARIETY OF HOUSING TYPES. MISSING MIDDLE CAN ALSO BE CONSIDERED A CASSITA, AND WE HAVE AN EXISTING PILOT PROGRAM TO HELP INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS BUILD OR REHAB A CASSITA IN THE BACKYARD. FINALLY TAX INCREMENT FINANCING IS AVAILABLE TO HELP SUPPORT THE CREATION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THERE ARE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT INCENTIVES, THERE ARE FINANCIAL CHALLENGES FOR MISSING MIDDLE DEVELOPERS TO ACCESS THESE PARTICULAR PROGRAMS. MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING CREATES SMALLER PROJECTS WHICH LACK ECONOMIES OF SCALE AND THE DEVELOPMENT COST FOR THESE PROJECTS ARE SPREAD ACROSS FEWER UNITS AND ALSO HAVE ACCESS AND CHALLENGES TO ACCESSING FINANCING DUE TO PERCEIVED RISKS AND LONGER PAYBACK PERIODS. IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE MAY WANT TO LOOK AT, THAT IS PART [00:05:01] OF WHAT THE CCR IS ASKING OUR TEAM TO DO IS IN ADDITION TO ZONING REFORMS, LOOK AT TARGETED INCENTIVE PROGRAMS SPECIFICALLY FOR THESE TYPES OF DEVELOPMENTS. ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE LOOKED AT WOULD HAVE TO BE PRIORITIZED WITHIN OUR OTHER CURRENT INCENTIVE PROGRAMS AS WE DON'T HAVE ADDITIONAL FUNDING SOURCE IDENTIFIED YET. THAT IS ALL PART OF WHAT THE CCR ASKED US TO CONSIDER. THE MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING IS INCLUDED ALREADY IN THE SA TOMORROW COMPREHENSION YOU HAVE PLAN, REFERENCED IN THE HOUSING STRATEGIC PLAN AND TRANSIT ORIENTED POLICY FRAMEWORK. OUR TEAM IS CURRENTLY UN UNDERGOING A REFRESH OF THE SHIP AND WE'RE LOOKING AT RECALIBRATING OUR HOUSING TARGETS AND WE WILL LOOK AT INCORPORATING MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING AS PART OF THAT EFFORT. SO RECOMMENDED NEXT STEPS, IS TO CONTINUE TO STUDY AND DEVELOP POTENTIAL RECOMMENDATIONS AND COST RELATED TO IMPLEMENTING A MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING PROGRAM. THESE RECOMMENDATIONS WOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE AND WE RECOMMEND THIS AS PART OF THE REFRESH EFFORTS. HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. >> COUNCILMEMBER, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR AND GOVERNANCE MEMBERS. THANK YOU TO THE COUNCILMEMBERS, MUNGIA, GALVAN AND CASTILLO FOR SIGNING ON TO THE CCR EARLIER THIS YEAR. THIS IS A PROGRAM WE'VE BEEN WORKING TO DEVELOP OVER THE LAST YEAR AND WORKING CLOSELY WITH NHSD AND THEIR STAFF IS DOING AN AMAZING JOB PARTNERING WITH US TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS THE GAP FOR MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING. YOU MAY KNOW IN THE URBAN CORE WE HAD A MEETING YESTERDAY WITH OUR EDUCATIONAL COMMITTEE AND THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF FAMILIES THAT ARE MOVING OUT OF THE URBAN CORE. WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO CREATE MORE HOUSING OPTIONS FOR FOLKS THAT WANT TO COME AND LIVE BACK DOWN AND AROUND DOWNTOWN AREAS IN OUR URBAN SCHOOL DISTRICT S. TO DO THAT WE HAVE TO BE CREATIVE WITH THE HOUSING SUPPLY. WE DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE ACRES OF LAND. IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP -- PULL THAT MAP UP, I THINK IT WAS SLIDE THREE. IT IS THIS ONE. THANK YOU. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS MAP, YOU WILL NOTICE WE'RE WORKING ON THROUGH THE HOUSING TRUST AND HOUSING BOND. WE HAVE SEEN GROWTH IN THAT. WE SAW LAST WEEK AT THE GREATER SATX PRESENTATION HOW WE MADE INVESTMENT THERE AND THE NUMBERS ARE GETTING BETTER. THE MISSING MIDDLE PART IS THIS AREA THAT WE HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT HOW TO INCENTIVIZE. IT IS HARD AND EXPENSIVE TO DO THESE PROJECTS. AND THE DEVELOPERS THAT ARE DOING MID RISE DON'T WANT TO BUILD A FOUR-UNIT MULTIPLEX. THIS STARTED WHEN WE TALKED TO DEVELOPERS DOING THESE DEVELOPMENTS AT MARKET RATE. I SAID WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR YOU TO DO THE APARTMENTS IN AN AFFORDABLE WAY. THEY LISTED A LOT OF BARRIERS THEY WERE FACING IN THE PROCESS. ONE WAS FORM-BASED BARRIERS. NHSD HAS BEEN SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH US ON THIS. THEY DECIDED TO GO FORWARD AND HAVE A CONSULTANT COME IN AND LOOK AT THOSE FORM BASED BARRIERS. WE ARE EXCITED ABOUT THE CODE UPDATES. WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THOSE THINGS. AT THE SAME TIME WE WANTED TO DEVELOP A PROGRAM SIMULTANEOUSLY. WE DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE CCR. WE CAN EXPLAIN THE FINANCIAL BARRIERS. ANOTHER THING WE HEARD WAS FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE. WE HAD A 16 UNIT MARKET RATE IN DISTRICT 1. THEY HAD MULTIPLE ANSWERS ABOUT WHAT WAS REQUIRED FOR PULL-IN PARKING, VARIANCES, HOW TO DO THAT. GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT ANSWERS. AT THAT TIME I CALLED MIKE SHA-91S SHANNON FOR THEM TO VISIT THE SITE AND FIND A SOLUTION. HAVING A POINT PERSON AT DSD THAT UNDERSTANDS INFILL WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT IN THIS PROCESS SO WE CAN GET CREATIVE ON HOW MANY UNITS WE'RE PUTTING IN A SPECIFIC AREA. THE LAST THING I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT OUTSIDE OF FINANCIAL AND DSD SUPPORT IS HOW DO WE WORK WITH COMMUNITY TO SEE THE BENEFIT AND VALUE OF THIS? AND I KNOW THAT WE ARE DOING OUR PLANNING PROCESSES RIGHT NOW FOR OUR -- TO DECIDE WHAT FITS WHERE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF THERE ARE TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE PROVIDERS THAT SOME WE HAVE MET WITH THAT CAN MAP OUT HOW MANY UNITS CAN FIT ON THIS IN TERMS OF WHAT IS CURRENTLY ALLOWED WITH THE 2.5 STORY REQUIREMENTS AND PROVIDING THAT SUPPORT FOR FOLKS COULD HELP THEM LOWER THE BARRIERS ON THE FRONT END SO THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO DO MORE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT. AND LASTLY, THESE SMALL SCALE DEVELOPERS THAT WE TALKED TO ARE LOCAL RESIDENTS THAT WANT TO TAKE ON A PROJECT. [00:10:01] SOME OF THEM ARE WOMEN, WHICH WE DON'T SEE OFTEN IN THE MID RISE AREA. SO I THINK THIS WOULD BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO TRULY BREAK THE BARRIERS FOR INCOME FOR OUR LOCAL RESIDENT DEVELOPERS. THANK YOU. >> GREAT, MAY I HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND TO APPROVE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION SO WE CAN BEGIN DISCUSSION. >> MOTION TO APPROVE. >> SECOND. >> GREAT. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION, STAFF. I HAVE A COUPLE OF FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS. I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH ONE, THERE BEING -- WHILE THE IMPORTANCE OF ONE PERSON (CHUCKLING) BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE CONSISTENT ANSWERS, I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, OF COURSE. IN THIS SPACE. I THINK THIS MAY BE MORE OF A PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION THAT WE REALLY NEED TO TACKLE AS A COUNCIL, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WITH LIMITED SPACE AND FRANKLY, WE WILL GET AN UPDATE LATER ON, ON OUR FINANCIAL UPDATE, AND YOU'LL SEE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT WE FOREGO IN PROPERTY TAXES, RIGHT? SO IF WE WANT TO -- THERE IS I THINK INCENTIVIZING AND ALSO KIND OF THE RIGHT PLACEMENT OF THESE THINGS. AND AS WE KNOW, THE GROWTH THAT IS COMING TO OUR COMMUNITY, AGAIN, A CITY THE SIZE OF AUSTIN BY 2050, WHAT IS THE RIGHT MIX OF THESE HOUSING PROJECTS, HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS AND BY LOCATION, THAT BEST MEETS THAT. AND I'M NOT SURE, I KNOW INITIAL ANALYSIS WILL GO ON THERE. I'M NOT SURE DUPLEXES AND TRIPLEXES WILL GET US THE DENSITY THAT WE NEED IN A LOT OF PLACES. RIGHT? SO IT IS A WELCOME UNDERSTANDING, IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO IT, HOW THE CHANGE IN LEGISLATION IN THE LAST SESSION MAKES SOME OF THIS EASIER OR HARDER BASED ON HOW YOU SEE IT. >> SURE. IN RESPONSE TO THE DENSITY, YES, THIS IS A LOWER DENSITY HOUSING TYPOLOGY. WHAT OTHER CITIES HAVE DONE, WE LOOKED AT ABOUT HALF A DOZEN, THIS IS WHERE THEY STARTED, MAKING ZONING UPDATES. LOOKING AT BUILDING, MAKING IT EASIER TO BUILD MULTIPLE UNITS ON WHAT MAY BE A SINGLE-FAMILY LOT. IT IS A LOWER DENSITY PRODUCT, BUT IT CAN HELP CREATE MORE UNITS ON A LOT THAT MAY OTHERWISE BE JUST ONE UNIT. IT IS SOMETHING TO LOOK AT IN OUR ANALYSIS AS WELL. AS FAR AS STATE LEGISLATIVE CHANGES, THE LAST SESSION, THE STATE MADE IT EASIER TO BUILD HOUSING IN GENERAL. ESPECIALLY ON LOTS THAT WERE ZONED COMMERCIAL. CAN NOW BE TURNED INTO HOUSING. I'M NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH ANYTHING MADE ON THE SINGLE-FAMILY SIDE. MARK HARMON IS HERE. HE DID A LOT OF WORK ON THE HOUSING. I WILL SEE IF HE HAS ANYTHING TO ADD PARTICULARLY FOR THE SINGLE LOT DEVELOPMENT. >> MAYOR, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, THERE WAS NOTHING DONE ON THE SINGLE-FAMILY SIDE, IT WAS MORE THE COMMERCIAL CONVERSION TO RENTAL. THE CONVERSION FROM COMMERCIAL SPACE CAN BE CONSIDERED FOR MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING. IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A GOOD FIT, DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE FOOTPRINT ITSELF. IF IT IS LARGE, IT IS PROBABLY MORE ALIGNED WITH THE LARGER DENSITY PROJECT. SMALLER SIZES ON THE COMMERCIAL SITES THAT HAVE BEEN ABANDONED OR AVAILABLE COULD BE GOOD FITS. IT FITS WITHIN THE SPIRIT OF THE LEGISLATION. (AUDIO SKIPPING). >> COMMENTS, COUNCILMEMBERS? OKAY? COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE RODGRIGUEZ, CAN YOU HEAR US? >> I WILL SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. I'M LISTENING TO THIS. I THINK, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE WILL HAVE FOREVER IS FIGURING OUT HOW BEST TO ALLOCATE OUR LIMITED RESOURCES. AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE USING OUR RESOURCES IN A WAY THAT WILL DO AS MUCH GOOD AS POSSIBLE AND ADDRESS THE NEED THAT WE HAVE. AND WE KNOW THAT IT IS HARDEST TO DEVELOP THE DEEPLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING. SO I'LL CONTINUE TO STRESS, I THINK THAT IS WHERE OUR PRIORITIES NEED TO BE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE HAS TO BE A WAY TO ADDRESS THE OTHER GAPS THAT EXIST IN THE SYSTEM. INCLUDING THE MISSING MIDDLE. I WOULDN'T WANT TO PREEMPT STAFF FROM LOOKING INTO POSSIBLE INCENTIVES, LOOKING INTO OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT EASIER. I DON'T THINK IT ALWAYS LOOKS LIKE A TAX ABATEMENT. SO, I LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING THE DISCUSSION AND WHAT THE END RESULT WILL BE. THANK YOU. >> COUNCILMEMBER. >> I APPRECIATE WHAT WAS SAID, IN THE DISTRICT 1 AND TWO, THE [00:15:02] MISSING MIDDLE IS IN THE AREAS WHERE THERE WOULD BE A SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSE THAT IS TURNED INTO THAT. SO THAT IS A REALLY GOOD WAY TO TARGET THE INCENTIVE PROGRAM. IF MAYBE IT IS -- I REFER TO IT AS THE DOUGHNUT OUTSIDE OF DOWN. BUT UP TO 410, MAYBE THAT AREA OUTSIDE OF THE CITY IS WHERE WE LOOK FOR THIS PROGRAM. THIS IS NOT GOING TO WORK IN D4 WHERE WE HAVE TOYOTA AND WE'RE STILL BUILDING LARGE, YOU KNOW, SUBDIVISIONS OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSES. I JUST GOT A REQUEST YESTERDAY FOR 380 HOMES, YOU KNOW, NOT TOO FAR FROM PEARSALL PARK THAT WE WON'T DO, BUT THAT IS A SEPARATE STORY. THAT IS VERY SPECIFIC PLACES THIS IS GOING TO WORK. AND VERY SPECIFIC LAND USE CATEGORIES THAT WE CAN CONVERT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. AND I THINK THIS KIND OF GOES INTO SOME OF THE MAYOR'S WORK ON OUR TASK FORCE THAT WE'RE DOING. I THINK SOME OF THE MISSING MIDDLE UNITS AND COMMUNITIES ARE REALLY BENEFICIAL TO SPECIAL POPULATIONS OF FOLKS. RIGHT? SO, MAYBE IT IS TARGETED TO PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT DISABILITIES OR YOUNG FOLKS IN LGBTQI COMMUNITY. AND YOUNG FOLKS IN GENERAL. WE THINK ABOUT COUNCIL AIDS AND WHERE THEY'R-- AIDES AND WH THEY'RE AT IN THEIR PROFESSIONAL CAREER. THIS IS WHERE YOU WILL SEE YOUNG PROFESSIONALS MOVE BEFORE BUYING A HOUSE. ESPECIALLY IF THEY WANT TO LIVE IN THE AREA. THERE IS LIMITED APARTMENT OPTIONS. I THINK IF IT IS DONE WELL AND TARGETED IT CAN BE A REALLY USEFUL TOOL. I APPRECIATE THAT. I LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION AT PCDC. >> VERONICA, WORK YOU HAVE SEEN OTHER PLACES, WHAT IS THE MIX IN THE TYPE OF HOUSING AND THE MIX BETWEEN RENTAL AND HOMEOWNERSHIP, AS WE THINK ABOUT HOW THE COMMUNITY CAN BUILD WEALTH. >> WE SEE RENTAL PROJECTS IN THIS TYPE OF HOUSING. AGAIN, WE ONLY LOOKED AT HALF A DOZEN OTHER CITIES. WE'LL LOOK AT MORE. MOST DID NOT HAVE SEPARATE FINANCIAL INCENTIVES SET UP. MOST STARTED WITH MAKING IT EASIER TO BUILD THE HOUSING STREAMLINING THE PROCESS LIKE THE COUNCILMEMBER KAUR MENTIONED. MAKING IT RIGHT TO BUILD UP TO FOUR UNITS, VERSUS HAVING TO GO THROUGH A WHOLE REZONING PROCESS TO DO SO. THAT IS PART OF THE WORK THE CONSULTANT IS LOOKING AT AND CONVERSATIONS WE'RE HAVING. IT WILL BE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER TO SEE THE LAYERS TO ADD TO MAKE IT EASIER. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OTHER CITIES DO IS LOOK AT THE DENSITY BONUSES. IF THEY OFFER HOUSING THAT IS MORE AFFORDABLE OR DEEPER AFFORDABILITY LIKE COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE RODGRIGUEZ MENTIONED. WE'LL LOOK AT THAT, TOO. >> ONE THING THAT CAME ACROSS IN THE BRIEFING WE'LL HAVE LATER TODAY, YOU CAN'T LOOK AT THESE IN SILOS. TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE ARE EXAMPLES WHERE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT FRANKLY THE HIGH-LEVEL OF SUCCESS LOOKS LIKE. SO FOR EXAMPLE, YESTERDAY IN OUR DISCUSSION, WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE SURPRISES BEING THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT TOOK US UP ON THE HOMESTEAD EXEMPTION. SO NOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IN TERMS OF WILD SUCCESS IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR, THANK YOU. AND WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF OUR GENERAL FUND. FRANKLY, THE ASSUMPTIONS YOU CAN MAKE, EVEN IF YOU DON'T BUILD ONE MORE HOUSE IN THE COMMUNITY, YOU CONTINUE ON THAT TRAJECTORY, YOU HAVE A GOOD IDEA WHAT WAS IS NOT COMING INTO THE GENERAL FUND. IF WE LOOK AT THINGS LIKE THIS AND WHAT IS THE RIGHT MIX OF RENTAL AND HOMEOWNERSHIP, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PLANNING ASSUMPTIONS THAT WE'RE PUTTING INTO WHERE YOU SEE THINGS LIKE THIS. BUT THEN I THINK THAT QUESTION OF DOES IT ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE INCENTIVIZED, GIVEN WHAT IT COST TO DO THIS AND FRANKLY WHO WOULD MOST BENEFIT FROM THIS KIND OF HOUSING, IN LIGHT OF SOME OF OUR MORE STRATEGIC NEEDS. AND A LOT OF THIS, YOU SEE, IN ALAMO HEIGHTS, RIGHT, WHEN I THINK OF WHERE YOU SEE THIS STUFF NOW. WE HAD A COUPLE OF DUPLEXES IN HERITAGE FARM. BUT ... (CHUCKLING) THEY LOOKED DIFFERENT. THEY LOOKED DIFFERENT. BUT I JUST CAN'T GET AN ESCAPE FROM FRANKLY THE DENSITY THAT WE KNOW WE NEED. AND MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE GOT THE RIGHT DISTRIBUTION OF FOCUS AND ENERGY AND ABATEMENTS, IF THAT IS IN FACT THE CASE TO MEET THAT NEED. BECAUSE WHEN I THINK OF MIDDLE HOUSING MISSING, I'M THINKING ABOUT MIDDLE IE THOSE THAT MAKE BETWEEN 50 AND 80K, BUT THAT IS WHO I THINK ABOUT. LESS THE TYPE OF THING, BUT RATHER THE ABILITY TO AFFORD. DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING. >> I LIKE THE BY RIGHT CONVERSATION. THAT WILL BE A GOOD AREA TO START IT OFF. [00:20:03] I THINK IT COULD BE, IF YOU HAVE A PROPERTY THAT IS R6, BY RIGHT YOU CAN DO SOMETHING WITH THAT. THAT LOT SIZE IS COMPLEMENTARY TO A MULTIPLEX. NOT GOING TO WORK WITH R4. WE'RE SEEING THE NEWER SUBDIVISIONS ARE R4. YOU CAN'T DO THIS ON THAT PROPERTY. IN SOME CASES, NOT MY CASE, SOME CASES HOMES ARE INHERITED IN COMMUNITIES, R5, WOODLAWN, WHATEVER. THAT IS SOMETHING THEY CAN DO WITH THAT INVESTMENT BY RIGHT, IS THEY'RE ABLE TO CHANGE THAT WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A ZONING PROCESS. I THINK THAT COULD BE A GOOD WAY TO KICK START THAT. OBVIOUSLY THAT IS A LARGE DISCUSSION. SO ... >> ONE THING, VERONICA, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE INCLUDE AS PART OF THIS ARE THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE PUT IN PLACE ON THOSE DEVELOPMENTS, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE SOME OF THIS MIDDLE HOUSING MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING THAT EXISTS IN THE COMMUNITY, THAT HAS BEEN ON THE MARKET FOR A LONG TIME. AND IT IS PART (AUDIO SKIPPING) JUST TO BE FRANK, IT IS SHODDY CONSTRUCTION. RIGHT? YOU HAVE CENTRAL AIR THAT IS LIKE NOT CENTRAL. IT IS LIKE THE AC THAT IS PUT IN THERE. MY POINT IS WE CAN BUILD IT, BUT I THINK THE LEVEL OF QUALITY WILL DETERMINE WHETHER SOMEBODY WANTS TO RENT OR BUY THAT. IT IS NOT JUST DO WE HAVE ENOUGH OF IT, IS IT ENOUGH OF THE TYPE OF QUALITY THAT PEOPLE WILL WANT TO LIVE IN OR BUY. SO BEING THOUGHTFUL ABOUT SOME OF THOSE RESTRICTIONS, I THINK IT WOULD HELP OUR OVERALL OBJECTIVES HERE. AS WELL AS SOME OF THE AESTHETIC OF SOME OF THOSE AS WELL. IT IS NOT JUST INSIDE, BUT OUTSIDE. IF YOU WERE TO DRIVE AROUND THE STRIP, YOU WOULD SEE EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, THE PLACES THAT WERE PUT UP PRETTY QUICKLY AND HAVE BEEN EMPTY FOR A LONG TIME. AND SIMILARLY AROUND THE JEFFERSON AREA, WOODLAWN AREA, YOU WILL HEAR THAT A LOT, TOO. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE FROM COUNCILMEMBERS? OKAY. THERE BEING NO FURTHER DISCUSSION, WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND TO APPROVE THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION WITH THE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AND STARKS. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR. (AYES) OPPOSED? MOTION PASSES. GREAT. TIME IS 10:28 THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU WHITE WO * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.