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>> GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE. THE TIME IS 2:03 P.M. ON TUESDAY, MARCH 3, 2026. WE WILL CALL THIS MEETING OF THE TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE COMMITTEE TO ORDER. CAN YOU PLEASE READ THE ROLL. (ROLL CALL). CHAIR, WE HAVE QUORUM.
[Approval of Minutes ]
>> WONDERFUL. WE'LL START WITH APPROVAL OF THE MEETINGS OF THE FEBRUARY 3, 2026, COMMITTEE
MEETING. I WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. >> SECOND.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? >> AYE.
>> WONDERFUL. UP NEXT WE'VE BRIEFING AND DISCUSSION ON THE VEHICLE FOR HIRE INDUSTRY AND
[Public Comment ]
HAVE SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC SET UP TO SPEAK AND EACH MEMBER WILL BE GIVEN TWO MINUTE TO SPEAK. IF YOU YIELD YOUR TIME TO THE MAX, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SPEAK UP TO SIX. I UNDERSTAND THE FIRST SPEAKER WILL BE GEORGE GARCIA. YOU HAVE SIX MINUTES, FOLLOWED BY GEORGE MARY.>> MY NAME IS GEORGE GARCIA. I SERVE ON THE TRANSPORTATION AND ADVISORY BOARD. THIS ISSUE WAS BROUGHT UP BEFORE. WE VOTED AND PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. NOT TO MAKE MY CHANGES. IT WAS THEN BROUGHT UP IT HAD TWO MEETINGS HAVING TO DO WITH STAKEHOLDERS. THE STAKEHOLDERS DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY THE SYSTEM IS SET RIGHT NOW. THE ISSUE THAT I SEE IS IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, WHY WE FIXING IT? WHO SAYS IT'S BROKEN? MY WIFE, WHO OWNS HER OWN COMPANY THAT I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH, STARTED WITH THE SAME REGULATIONS AND CHAPTER 33, 16, 18 YEARS AGO. SHE FOLLOWED THE SAME RULES EVERYBODY ELSE WAS IN THE INDUSTRY AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE'RE TRYING TO CHANGE OR MAKE AN EXCEPTION. Y'ALL JUST PASSED THE DEAL WITH THE MARVEL PROJECT. $4BILLION, SUPPOSED TO BE INCOME FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. YOU HAVE AN INDUSTRY THAT IS DOING FINE, OKAY, BUT YOU WANT TO CHANGE IT. WHY? WHERE'S THAT EAGERNESS IF -- IF THE CAR IS NOT BROKEN, IT'S LIKE GETTING A SET OF WINDSHIELD WIPERS. INSTEAD OF BUYING THE WIPERS, YOU THROW AWAY THE CAR BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT WORKING RIGHT. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
YOU'RE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE VOTED BY THE CITIZENS. EVERYBODY VOTED AND EVERYBODY'S HAPPY. SO WHY ARE WE MESSING WITH SOMETHING NOT BROKEN? YOU HAVE GARY GILBERT AND HIS STAFF THAT MONITOR WHAT IS GOING ON.
THERE IS NO ISSUE AS FAR AS I KNOW. YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF THE ORDER SO THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THE RULES AND CAN'T HAVE GYPSIES AND RENEGADES RUNNING OUT, DOING WHATEVER THEY WANT, AND IT'S NOT TO THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC. AND THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN THE LIMOUSINE BUSINESS BUT SERVE ON THE TAB BOARD. I'M THE THIRD-OLDEST PERSON ON THE TAB BOARD, AND I'M TELLING YOU, YOU PEOPLE ARE VERY SMART. DON'T, DON'T FALL FOR SMOKE AND MIRRORS. IT'S NOT REAL. IT'S NOT A PROBLEM. YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EXIST.
WHAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IS THERE'S OTHER ISSUES THAT Y'ALL, AS THE CITY COUNCIL, HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR INDUSTRY, NOTHING. AND I JUST HOPE THAT ALL OF Y'ALL REMEMBER THAT WHEN WE STARTED -- WE ARE THE TOURIST MAGNET AND WHAT YOU DID WITH $4 BILLION, WE WILL BE THE TOURIST MAGNET HERE IN TEXAS, UNITED STATES, WHATEVER.
Y'ALL ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION; DON'T DEVIATE. MAINTAIN YOUR COURSE, AND YOU WILL BE FINE. Y'ALL ARE VERY INTELLIGENT AND I'M VERY PROUD OF EVERYBODY ON CITY COUNCIL. YOU'RE A LOT SMARTER THAT I'LL EVER BE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS AS MUCH: I KNOW A WINNER WHEN I SEE IT, AND I SEE WINNERS HERE. DON'T, DON'T FALL FOR THE SMOKE AND MIRRORS, PLEASE. IS MY FIVE OR SIX MINUTES UP? DO I HAVE ANY TIME LEFT?
>> YES, YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES. >> ALL DAY LONG! I'M DOING GREAT! (LAUGHTER.) I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE INDUSTRY, MY WIFE, WHICH IS SYLVIA AND OWNS CRYSTAL TRANSPORTATION, A LIMOUSINE COMPANY. SHE FIRST GOT IN THE BUSINESS, SHE HAD TO FOLLOW THE SAME RULES, OKAY. IT WAS MENTIONED AT THAT MEETING THIS WAS A MAN'S WORLD. WHEN MY WIFE CAME HOME AND DAUGHTERS CAME HOME, THEY WERE CRYING BECAUSE THEY SAID, "WHY DID THEY SAY IT'S A MAN'S WO WORLD?"
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AND NOBODY, NOBODY FROM CITY STAFF SAID ANYTHING DIFFERENT, OKAY? THE POINT IS SHE'S THE OLDEST WOMAN-OWNED LING NO SEEN COMPANY IN SAN ANTONIO RIGHT NOW AND STILL HERE. SO GIVE HER THE DECENCY IF SHE HAD TO ABIDE BY THE RULES, ALL OF US HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE RULES. NO ONE IS BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE. WE'RE ALL ONE PEOPLE. WE'RE ALL SAN ANTONIANS.KEEP THAT IN MIND; WE'RE ONE PEOPLE. I'M THROUGH WITH MY TIME.
>> THANK YOU, MR. GARCIA. GEORGE MARY, YOU WILL BE FOLLOWED BY OSCAR VICKS.
>> THANK YOU. MY SPEECH IS LONGER THAN TWO MINUTES BUT GAVE YOU COPIES SO YOU CAN FINISH IT BECAUSE I WILL ONLY GET STARTED. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO CHANGE ANY RULES IF THE BOOM THAT HAVE INVESTED YEARS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE GRATEFUL AND SATISFIED WITH THE RULES THAT ARE IN PLACE. NOT ONLY ARE WE GRATEFUL BUT PROUD TO BE IN HARMONY AND THE TAB BOARD LISTENED TO A COUPLE OF INDIVIDUALS THAT WANTED TO CHANGE AND YOUR INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU IN PREPARATION FOR THIS MEETING HINTED OF AN ONSLAUGHT OF OPPOSITION BUT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I'M THE CHAIRMAN OF THE TAB BOARD AND NOBODY WITH A LIMO LICENSE DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS. SOMEBODY WANTED TO GET INTO BUSINESS WITHOUT CONSIDERATION OF WHAT EVERY PERMITTED, LEGAL OPERATOR HAS BEEN THROUGH FOR 40 YEARS.
TODAY IS MY 30-YEAR ANNIVERSARY, JUST FOR THE RECORD, LIMO. I HAVE LEGAL OPERATING PERMITS IN SIX CITIES AND KNOW FOR A FACT THE ONLY REASON THAT IT SHOWS DALLAS AND HOUSTON HAVE NO RULES TODAY IS BECAUSE OF THE FACTS. P THEY ALLOWED LIBERAL CHANGES TO ORDINANCE AND ONCE THEY ALLOWED CHANGES COULDN'T KEEP UP WITH THE DEMAND OF SUPERVISING VIOLATORS THAT TOOK ADVANTAGE OF MINIMUM RULES. THE CITY IS A DESTINATION CITY.
OUR INDUSTRY COMPLEMENTS THAT AND HISTORY SHOWS CHANGING RULES IN THIS CASE COULD BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END. WE GOT TO BE CAREFUL. THE RULES THAT APPLY TO OUR INDUSTRY ARE EFFECTIVE AND KEEP OUR INDUSTRY SAFE -- I REPEAT, SAFE.
I KNOCK ON WOOD WHEN I SAY THE CITY HAS BEEN FORTUNATE THE OFFICE THAT MANAGES OUR LIMOUSINE ORDINANCE HAS ABSOLUTE CONTROL OVER THE INDUSTRY TO THE POINT THIS STAFF MAKES PERSONAL CALLS TO ALL OPERATORS ON A REGULAR BASIS, REMINDS THEM OF FEES DUE, DRIVERS THAT NEED UPDATED PER MINUTES, INSURANCE DEADLINES. ALL OF THIS ENDS WHEN YOU OPEN THE DOOR TO UNKNOWN CHALLENGES. THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH CHAPTER 33. DEVIATION FROM THIS CAN ONLY END UP LIKE THE CITIES THAT MADE THE MISTAKE AND LOST CONTROL OF IT. THEY'RE NOW 400 OPERATORS IN HOUSTON THAT USED TO BE 55. BREAK THE RULES. THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
I'VE OWNED THE COMPANY IN AUSTIN 20 YEARS AND CAN NOT TELL YOU WHO IS IN CH CHARGE. I'M THE LARGEST COMPANY THERE WITH OVER 50 VEHICLES AND PROMISE YOU HAVE NEVER MET THE PEOPLE, I NEVER
MET THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE. >> THANK YOU, AND CONGRATULATIONS ON 30 YEAR OF
YOUR BUSINESS. >> TODAY. >> CONGRATULATIONS.
OSCAR VICKS WILL BE FOLLOWED BY MICHAEL ROJAS. >> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS OSCAR VICKS. I HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS 30 YEARS, AND I HAVE BEEN PUTTING UP WITH HIM 28 YEARS. (LAUGHTER.) HE AIN'T NO FLY-BY-NIGHT PERSON, OKAY? NOW, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY WITH GEORGE MARY HAS BEEN TOTALLY COMMITTED TO THE COMMUNITY, AND IF THERE IS ANY KIND OF CHANGES TO DOWNGRADE HIS BUSINESS OR BELITTLE HIS BUSINESS, IT'S A POSSIBILITY HE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO DO THE THINGS HE DO FOR THE COMMUNITY. IF KATRINA WAS HERE, HE TOOK FIVE LIMOS TO MISSION PARK, FED THEM, DELIVERED THEM, AND BROUGHT THEM BACK TO -- WHAT IS IT, BROOKS? BROOKS CITY? I THINK THEY WAS AT BROOKS CITY BASE. NACCP, MLK FOR THE LAST 15, 20 YEARS, I HAVE BEEN VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN USING WHATEVER VEHICLES THAT ELEPHANT LIMOUSINE NEEDED TO SUPPLY MLK. WE HAVE NEVER HEARD ANY KIND OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT PICKING UP THE GUEST SPEAKERS, THE ENTERTAINERS FROM THE AIRPORT TO THE HOTEL TO THE SITE. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS. ROLLS ROYCE HAVE BEEN SUPPLIED FOR THE PARADE MARSHALS, PICKING UP THE SAM HOUSTON BAND TO BRING THEM BACK AND FORTH, SPRINTERS TO SHELTER PEOPLE BACKWARD AND FORWARD. NOW, THIS IS ON AN ANNUAL BASIS. HE AIN'T DOING THIS JUST, YOU KNOW, SOME TIME. AND SAM HOUSTON, WE HAD A BIG GAME COMING UP, AND IT COST $700 TO
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RENT A BUS. I TOLD THE PEOPLE, I SAID, "WE GOT TO RAISE THIS $700." AFTER EVERYBODY PUT DIMES TOGETHER, WE HAD $126. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAID," WE'LL TAKE THAT." WHAT COMPANY YOU KNOW GOING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW? I'M PROUD TO SAY THAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH ELEGANT LIMOUSINE SERVICE AND IF YOU MAKE ANY KIND OF CHANGES AND HE LITTLE THEM OR DOWNGRADE THEM, HE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO DO ALL THE THINGS HE HAS BEEN DOING FOR THE COMMUNITY.>> THANK YOU, MR. VICKS. THANK YOU. MICHAEL ROJAS IS FOLLOWED BY
DAVAJA. >> HELLO? I'M MICHAEL ROJAS AND HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE REQUIREMENT TOP DROPPED OUT OF THE CHAPTER 33 BECAUSE HE SAYS EXCLUSIONARY CONSTITUTE ENTRY MARKET. THE LEGACY COMPANY OWNERS, THEY INVESTED MANY YEARS AGO WHEN THESE LIMOS UNITS, CARS, THEY WERE VERY PROFITABLE. THEY ARE SMALL OPERATOR. WE HAVE BEEN DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MARKET IN SAN ANTONIO BECAUSE OF ECONOMIC HARM. SO THE NUMBERS MR. MARY TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT CITIZEN IN TEXAS ONLY MEANS COMPETITION. COMPETITION IS HEALTHY. IT'S GOOD FOR CONSUMERS AND FOR CITY RESIDENTS. EVERY COMPANY HAS THEIR SIZE. THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU. DAVADVAJA? >> GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE. I'M HERE REPRESENTING YELLOW ROSE BLUE BELONG IT HRH HORSE CARRIAGE COMPANIES. WE WANTED TO COME AND SPEAK A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE TRANSITION TO REPORT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY, IN OUR OPINION, HAS NOT LIVED UP TO ITS PROMISE TO ALLOW CARRIAGE COMPANIES TO OPERATE FOR THREE YEARS AND BEGIN TO STEP DOWN. WE HAVE HAD PARTICULARLY ISSUES WITH THIS LAST HOLIDAY SEASON WHERE THE LOADING ZONE THEY ALL HAVE TO CRAM IN OVER THERE BY THE HARD ROCK CAFE BECAME UNAVAILABLE. WE MET WITH CITY STAFF AND AGREED ON FIVE OTHER LOCATIONS, BUT THE SIGNAGE AND ALL OF THAT WASN'T DONE UNTIL AFTER THE NEW YEAR. SO WE LOST OUR ENTIRE PRIME SEASON FOR EARNINGS. AGAIN, THE SPIRIT OF THE AGREEMENT WAS THAT THE HORSE CARRIAGE COMPANIES WOULD BE ALLOWED TO OPERATE TO PAY OFF THEIR DEBTS BEFORE THE CITY TOOK AWAY THEIR LIVELIHOOD, AND WE'RE HERE TO ASK THAT BE REVISITED, THAT WE CAN EXPLAIN IN DETAIL WHAT'S GOING ON. ANOTHER ISSUE WE'RE HAVING IS AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BRING IN NEW HORSES. AS WE RETIRE HORSES OR AS HORSES GET REDUCED IN SERVICE FOR VARIOUS REASONS, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BRING IN SUBSTITUTES. IT'S CAUSING US TO USE REMAINING HORSES MORE THAN WE WOULD LIKE TO, SO WE'D LIKE TO SEE SOME RELIEF THERE TO MANAGE THE HEALTH OF THE HORSES THROUGHOUT THE REMAINDER OF THE CONT CONTRACT.
AS FAR AS TRANSITIONING TO EVS, WE'RE OPEN TO LISTENING TO PROPOSAL BUT FUNDAMENTALLY BELIEVE THEY'RE APPLES AND ORANGES; THAT THE TYPE OF RIDER WHO IS WILLING TO PAY $75 FOR A HORSE CARRIAGE RIDE, THEY'RE THERE FOR THE EXPERIENCE OF A HORSE.
WE BELIEVE THAT TRANSITION TO EVS GO FROM A HIGHLY SPECIALIZED, UNIQUE EXPERIENCE TO ONE IN WHICH THERE'S ALL KIND OF COMPETITION FROM LIMOUSINES TO UBERS AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT THAT MORE. THE AVERAGE FULL-TIME DRIVER EARNS OVER $100,000 AND AVERAGE EV DRIVERS EARN FAR LESS. WE'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT OUR DRIVERS, MORTGAGES, AND
LIVELIHOODS. IN SAN ANTONIO. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE HAVE A STAFF PRESENTATION.
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>> GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS. MY NAME IS RIC RILEY WITH THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT. TODAY I WILL PRESENT A BRIEFING ON THE LIMOUSINE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS AND HORSE CARRIAGE TRANSITION BRIEFING THAT ARE BROUGHT OUT BY TWO PREVIOUS BRIEFINGS IN NOVEMBER A AND DECEMBER OF 2025. JUST AS AN OUTLINE, TODAY'S BRIEFING WILL COVER THE FOLLOWING BE. WE'LL GIVE A BACKGROUND OF CHAPTER 33,
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OVERVIEW THE LIMOUSINE, HORSE AND CARRIAGE, AND OTHER INDUSTRIES.WE'LL TALK MORE IN DEPTH ABOUT THE LIMOUSINE SERVICE OPERATIONS.
THEN WE'LL MOVE TO THE HORSE CARRIAGE TRANSITION. THEN WE WILL ASK FOR SOME INPUT BACK FROM THE COMMITTEE AS TO NEXT STEPS GOING FORWARD. SO SINCE 1992, CHAPTER 33 OF THE CITY CODE HAS GOVERNED OPERATION OF VEHICLES FOR HIRE. A VEHICLE FOR HIRE IS A SHOAFERED VEHICLE OTHER THAN MASS TRANSIT VEHICLES OR CARPOOLS THAT OPERATE FOR ANY FARE OR COMPENSATION. THAT INCLUDE YOUR TAXICABS, TOUR BUSES, STRETCH LIMOUSINES, LUXURY VEHICLES, PETTY CANS, MOE TO BIKES, SIDE CARS, ELECTRIC VEHICLES.
IT DOESN'T INCLUDE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK COMPANIES -- UBER AND LYFT; AND IT DOESN'T INCLUDE AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES. THE STATE REGULATE AND OVERSEES THOSE.
I WILL START WITH A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE LIMOUSINE SERVICE INDUSTRY.
AS YOU CAN SEE, PERMITS HAVE BEEN ISSUED SINCE 1989, AND A LIMOUSINE SERVICE IS A BASIC GROUND TRANSPORTATION SERVICE THAT MOVES PASSENGERS FOR A FARE BASED ON ONE HOUR OR MORE. A LOT OF WHAT YOU HEARD FROM PUBLIC COMMENT TODAY CENTERED AROUND THIS IDEA OF PERMIT REQUIREMENTS TO ENTER INTO THE INDUSTRY. TO LEVEL SET IT, TODAY'S PERMIT REQUIREMENTS ARE YOU HAVE TO OPERATE TWO STRETCH LIMOUSINES OR ONE STRETCH LIMOUSINE AND TWO LUXURY VEHICLES.
ON THE STRETCH LIMOUSINES, THEY HAVE TO BE NO GREATER THAN SEVEN MODEL YEARS OLD AND LESS THAN 100,000 MILES. . THERE ARE 12 COMPANIES OPERATING WITH A TOTAL OF 116 VEHICLES AND 155 PERMITTED DRIVERS OPERATING THOSE VEHICLES.
BRIEFLY, THE HORSE CARRIAGE ABOVE EARNED BY CHAPTER 33. FOR THOSE ON COUNCIL, IF YOU REMEMBER 2024, COUNCIL APPROVED AN ORDINANCE TO PHASE AND PROHIBIT OPERATIONS EFFECTIVE JANUARY 1, 2030. MANY AS I MENTIONED, THIS IS PHASE-OUT PLAN.
THE FIRST PHASE TOOK EFFECT IMMEDIATELY WHERE NO NEW CARRIAGE PERMITS WERE ALLOWED TO BE ISSUE AND ANIMAL CONTROL SERVICES WAS NO LONGER ABLE TO LICENSE NEW HORSES OTHER THAN THOSE THAT HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY LICENSED. SUBSEQUENTLY, FACE-OUT WILL OCCUR WHERE HOURS OF OPERATION WILL BE REDUCED 20% OVER A COUPLE OF YEARS, EVENTUALLY ENDING JANUARY 1, 2030. THERE ARE 25 HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS THAT REPRESENT FIVE DISTINCT COMPANIES WITH FIVE PERMITS EACH, AND THERE'S THREE OWNERS OF THOSE FIVE COMPANIES.
ELECTRIC VEHICLE SERVICE. SINCE NOVEMBER 2022, YOU SEE THE PICTURES ON THE SLIDE. MOST OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE LITTLE RUNNER THAT OPERATES IN DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO. AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE IS A SHOAFERED VEHICLE OPERATED FOR FARE OR COMPENSATION, THE BIG DIFFERENCE BEING THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE IS PROPELLED BY ELECTRIC MOTOR, NON-COMBUSTION ENGINE.
IT HAS A MAXIMUM SPEED OF NO GREAT THAN 35 MILES PER HOUR AND MUST MEET ALL FEDERAL, STATE, MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS FOR LOW-SPEED VEHICLES. CURRENTLY IN THE CITY WE HAVE THREE COMPANIES OPERATING 20 PERMITS OUT THERE, AND THERE ARE 33 PERMITTED ELECTRIC VEHICLE DRIVERS. TAKE A DEEPER DIVE INTO OPERATION. ONE QUESTION THAT CAME UP WHEN WE PREVIOUSLY BRIEFED THIS WAS WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY WAS COMPLYING WITH STATE LAW AND STATE REGULATIONS I'M HAPPY TO REPORT THE ANSWER IS YES.
TEXAS, THOSE REGULATIONS AND POLICIES ARE PREDOMINANTLY OVERSEEN BY AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL EXCEPT FOR THOSE VEHICLES THAT HAVE A CAPACITY OF 16 PASSENGERS OR MORE.
THEY HAVE TO BE REGISTEREDDED THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND HAVE TO CARRY $5 MILLION OF LIABILITY. JUST SO THAT YOU KNOW, IN SAN ANTONIO WE HAVE FIVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF VEHICLES THAT CLASSIFY AS LUXURY VEHICLES. WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT STRETCH LIMOUSINES.
THOSE ARE VEHICLES THAT ARE STRETCHED 100 INCHES OR MORE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER SPECIFICATION. TWO THROUGH FIVE ARE LUXURY VEHICLES NO MORE THAN EIGHT PASSENGERS. THAT'S YOUR LUXURY SEDAN. IF YOU THINK OF A TRADITIONAL BLACK-CAR SERVICE. THE NEXT ONE IS LUXURY SUV -- AGAIN, NO GREATER THAN EIGHT PASSENGERS. YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO A BLACK-CAR SERVICE BUT IN AN SUV.
WE HAVE LIMO VANS THAT ARE EIGHT PASSENGERS TO 15 PASSENGERS. THEN LIMO BUSES ARE NINE PASSENGERS TO 45 PASSENGERS. THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE AND YOUR STRETCH LIMO, BESIDES
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OBVIOUSLY WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, IS THOSE VEHICLES CAN, TO COME INTO SERVICE, CAN BE NO GREATER THAN FOUR MODEL YEARS OLD AND HAVE 100-MILE REQUIREMENT -- 100,000-MILE REQUIREMENT THEY CAN'T EXCEED. THIS SLIDE LISTS OUT SOME OF THE LIMOUSINE REGULATIONS IN OTHER TEXAS CITIES. YOU WILL SEE THERE THAT THERE ARE VARIOUS TITLES EXCEPT FOR DALLAS AND FORT WORTH SHARE THE SAME TITLE. VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS -- THE CLOSEST TO SAN ANTONIO RIGHT NOW IS ALWAYS TIN THAT HAS THE STRETCH LIMOUSINE OR FOUR LUXURY SUVS TO BE A PERMITTED COMPANY THERE IN AUSTIN. DALLAS AND FORT WORTH, AGAIN, NONE.INTERESTING BETWEEN CORPUS AND HOUSTON, BOTH HAVE A MINIMUM COST OF THE VEHICLE.
HOUSTON PUBLISHES A LIST OF VEHICLES THEY CONSIDER LUXURY VEHICLES.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT A HIGH-END CAR, IT'S PROBABLY ON THAT LIST. IT'S PROHIBI -- PROHIBIT EXTENSIVE LIST OF VEHICLES. WE TALKED ABOUT THE TAB TODAY DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENT. IN FACT, TWICE DURING 2025, THE TAB RECEIVED PUBLIC COMMENT IN FAVOR OF AMENDING THE LIMOUSINE VEHICLE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS BY REMOVING THAT STRETCH LIMOUSINE REQUIREMENT.
IN THE AUGUST 2025 MEETING, THE TAB DID VOTE UNANIMOUSLY TO RECOMMEND NO CHANGES TO THE CURRENT LIMOUSINE VEHICLE PE PERMITS AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO JUST WOULD LIKE A REFRESHER, IT'S 11 VOTING MEMBERS ON THE TAB. EACH COUNCIL MEMBER APPOINT ONE MEMBER. THE MAYOR HAS ONE, AND THEN THERE ARE FIVE NON-VOTING MEMBERS MADE OF CITY STAFF, PUBLIC WORKS, AVIATION, CCDO, VISIT SA, AND VIA ALL HAVE THOSE. THEY MEET MONTHLY EXCEPT DECEMBER AND IN APRIL.
SO DURING THE HOLIDAYS AND FIESTA. SO FOLLOWING OUR MEETING THAT WE HAD IN NOVEMBER 2025, STAFF CONDUCTED TWO STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS TO GARNER FEEDBACK REGARDING, IS THERE AN INTEREST IN CHANGING THOSE LIMOUSINE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS? THE TAKEAWAYS FROM THOSE TWO MEETINGS WAS THE POSSIBILITY OF ADDING AN AND/OR LIMOUSINE BUS WITH TWO LUXURY VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS TO OBTAIN A PERMIT YOU WOULD SUBSTITUTE THE LIMOUSINE BUS FOR THE STRETCH LIMOUSINE OR COULD HAVE AN EITHER/OR SITUATION.
AND THEN TO INCREASE THE INSURANCE AMOUNT ON LIABILITY INSURANCE POLICY FROM $500,000 TO $1 MILLION. AFTER THAT MEETING, STAFF RECEIVED A MEMO SIGNED BY FIVE OF THE 12 LIMOUSINE BUSINESS OWNERS AGAIN RECOMMENDING NO CHANGES TO THE LIMOUSINE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS. FOR CONTEXT, THE COST OF A NEW STRETCH LIMOUSINE BASED UPON STAFF'S RESEARCH IS $90,000 TO $150,000. NEW AND COST OF NEW LIMO BUS RANGES FROM $170,000 TO $22 $220,000. TODAY STAFF IS NOT MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS BUT INSTEAD PRESENTING OPTIONS TO THE COMMITTEE FOR CONSIDERATION AND FEEDBACK B. WE HAVE COVERED THESE IN GENERAL AND NARROWED DOWN MORE SPECIFICITY HERE.
ONE OPTION IS TO REQUIRE A PERMIT HOLDER TO OWN EITHER TWO STRETCH LIMOUSINES OR TWO LIMO BUSES OR ONE STRETCH LIMOUSINE, ONE LIMO BUS, AND TWO LUXURY VEHICLES WITH THE AGES OF ENTERING VEHICLES INTO SERVICE WOULD NOT CHANGE. THE SECOND IS INCREASE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS FROM $500,000 TO $1 MILLION. THE THIRD IS TO RENAME THE LIMOUSINE INDUSTRY TO A LUXURY VEHICLE SERVICE INDUSTRY. NUMBER FOUR THERE: STAFF IS INTERESTED IN YOUR FEEDBACK TO EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS. DO WE NEED A DEEPER DIVE? OR MAYBE THE COMMITTEE WOULD PREFER TO MAKE NO CHANGES AT THIS TIME. MOVING ON TO HORSE CARRIAGE AND PHASE-OUT PLAN, AS I BRIEFED EARLIER IN DECEMBER 2024 COUNCIL AMENDED CHAPTER 33 TO PHASE OUT HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATIONS. THE FIRST PHASE WAS NO NEW PERMITS ISSUED AND ACS NOT ISSUING NEW LICENSES FOR HORSES UTILIZED. PHASE 2 WILL KICK OFF IN JUNE 2027 THROUGH MAY 2028, REDUCTION IN OPERATING HOURS OF 30%.
THROUGH DECEMBER 2029, ANOTHER REDUCTION IN HOURS OF 20%. THEN THE OPERATIONS HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATIONS WOULD CEASE ON JANUARY 1, 2030. SO SOME OPTIONS.
TWO OF THE THREE HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS EXPRESSED INTEREST TO STAFF IN POTENTIAL POSSIBLY
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OPERATING ELECTRIC CARRIAGES. THEY WOULD BE GOVERNED BY THE ELECTRIC SERVICE PART OF CHAPTER 33 EXCEPT FOR ELECTRIC CARRIAGES UNLIKE THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES YOU SEE. LITTLE RUNNER WOULD BE EXEMPTED FROM A WINDSHIELD AND WOULD DRAFT THOSE SO PEOPLE IN THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES COULD EXPERIENCE THAT. THEY WOULD HAVE TO MEET FEDERAL SAFETY STANDARDS FOR LOW-SPEED VEHICLE AND WOULD HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE STATE AND MEET INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS.MOUNT DORA, FLORIDA, AND FERNANDINA BEACH, FLORIDA, ARE OPERATING THEM.
PHILADELPHIA REMAINS IN A TESTING PHASE AND NAMED THEIR CARRIAGE CAROLINE AND HAS SHOWN UP AT FOURTH OF JULY AND OTHER PARADES BUT NOT YET OUT AUTHORIZED TO WORK FULL-TIME IN PHILADELPHIA. AN ISSUE THAT CAME UP THE LAST TIME WE MET IS WHAT IS THE COST BETWEEN OPERATING A HORSE CARRIAGE AND OPERATING ELECTRIC CARRIAGE COSTS? YOU CAN SEE THE CAPITAL COST ON THE LEFT. I APOLOGIZE; WE LEFT OFF THE ACTUAL COST OF THE CARRIAGE, WHICH IS $20,000. THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL CAPITAL INTO THE HORSE CARRIAGE COST.
OUR RESEARCH AND COMMUNICATION WITH HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS IS ABOUT $15,000 A YEAR TO OPERATE ONE HORSE CARRIAGE AND THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGE COST ROUGHLY $3,500 A YEAR IN TALKING TO THE PEOPLE THAT OPERATE THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND COMPARING THE TWO, THINKING THEY WOULD BE SIMILAR IN ELECTRIC USAGE. SO THERE ARE BENEFITS TO TRANSITION TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES -- LOW OVERHEAD COST. NO LONGER IS THERE COST TO FEED, FAIRIER BILLS, PROCEEDING COST.
THERE'S A POTENTIAL OF LOWER LABOR COST BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO MUCK THE STALLS 365 DAYS A YEAR. AND THE TRANSPORTATION COST TO MOVE FROM THE PASTURE TO STABLES. AS I MENTIONED, OPERATIONALLY WE WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW CHAPTER 33 AND WILL INCLUDE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES, ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND ELECTRIC CLASSIC CARS.
THEY WILL ENJOY NO RESTRICTION ON HOURS OF OPERATION AND CAN OPERATE OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN AS LONG AS THEY STAY ON THOSE ROADS NO GREATER THAN 35 MILES AN HOUR AND NO TEMPERATURE RESTRICTIONS CURRENTLY HORSE CARRIAGES ARE PROHIBITED FROM OPERATING IF THE TEMPERATURE GOES ABOVE 95 DEGREES AND OBVIOUSLY AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE WOULD NOT BE SUBJECT TO AN OZONE ACTION DAY HORSE CARRIAGES ARE SUGGESTED TO. FROM A VERSATILITY STANDPOINT, WE HAD TO BUILD IN IF THE ELECTRIC CARRIAGE WASN'T AS PROFITABILITY, WHAT HAPPENS? ONE OPTION THAT STAFF CAME UP WITH WAS ALLOWING THIS ELECTRIC CARRIAGE TO BE TRANSFERRED TO AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE FOR HIRE. AS I MENTIONED, THREE OF THE FIVE COMPANIES -- SO TWO OWNERS -- THREE OF THE FIVE COMPANIES EXPRESSED AN INTEREST IN TRANSITIONING.
SO AS WITH LIMOUSINES, STAFF ISN'T MAKING A RECOMMENDATION BUT IS PRESENTING OPTIONS FOR THE COMMITTEE'S CONSIDERATION AND FEEDBACK. THE FOUR OPTIONS ON THE BOARD -- OPTION ONE IS A ONE-FOR-ONE EXCHANGE TO TURN IN A HORSE CARRIAGE PERMIT FOR AN EV PERMIT TO RESULT IN 25 ADDITIONAL ELECTRIC VEHICLES BEING ON THE ROAD IF THEY WERE ALL TURNED IN OPTION TWO IS A ONE-FOR-ONE EXCHANGE BUT WE HAVE ONE OLDER WITH FIVE PERMITS. THE OTHER OWNERS HAVE TWO PERMITS TEN OWNERS EACH TO ALLOW THE OWNER TO MOVE UP FIVE ADDITIONAL EV PERMIT AND RESULT IN POSSIBLE 30 NEW EV PERMITS. OPTION THREE FOLLOWS THE SAME LOGIC BUT IS A REDUCTION ACROSS THE BOARD OF THE TWO OWNERS THAT CURRENTLY HAVE TEN PERMITS EACH ON TWO SEPARATE COMPANIES, FIVE FOR EACH COMPANY. WE WOULD REDUCE THEM TO SEVEN AND UP THE ONE THAT HAS FIVE TO SEVEN TO EQUAL THAT OUT, RESULTING IN A POSSIBLE 21 NEW EV PERMIT. OPTION FOUR IS THE SAME THING, EXCEPT WE WOULD LIMIT THEM TO FIVE PERMITS EACH. IN ALL CASES, ONE OPTION WOULD BE ONCE A HORSE CARRIAGE PERMIT IS TURNED IN FOR AN EV PERMIT, THAT HORSE CARRIAGE PERMIT IS VOID AND SHALL NOT BE REISSUED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL PERMIT HOLDER. THAT'S AN OPTION OBVIOUSLY UP FOR CONSIDERATION FOR THIS COMMITTEE. SO TODAY WE'RE LOOKING FOR INPUT
[00:30:02]
REGARDING LIMOUSINE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS AND THE TRANSITION OF HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS TO ELECTRIC VEHICLE PERMITS. THAT CONCLUDES MY BRIEFING, AND I'M AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANYQUESTIONS. >> THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THE PRESENTATION.
YOU WERE ABLE TO ROLL SIGNIFICANT POLICY DISCUSSIONS INTO ONE PRESENTATION VERY BRIEFLY AND UNDERSTAND ALL THESE ITEMS ARE CONNECTED. I APPRECIATE ALL THE SPEAKERS WHO CAME OUT TO SPEAK TODAY. MY INCLINATION -- SO I CAME INTO THIS MEETING FEEL THIS WAY -- TO MOVE TOWARDS A LUXURY VEHICLE PERMIT. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT WOULD NOT ELIMINATE THE USE OF LIMOUSINES BUT INSTEAD ALLOWS FOR OTHER LUXURY VEHICLES TO BE REGULATED UNDER THE PROGRAM. IF SOMEONE DOESN'T SE SEES THE VALUE AND CAN'T ADD LIMOUSINES, THEY CAN BE A LUXURY VEHICLE FOR HIRE SERVICE, WHICH IS NOT A CURRENT OPTION FOR ANYONE RIGHT NOW. I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, IF LIMOUSINES ARE IN DEMAND, THEY WILL STILL BE IN DEMAND. LIMOUSINE BUSINESS THAT HAVE THESE VEHICLES WILL STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THEM; AND IF A NEW BUSINESS STARTS UP AND THEY HAVE OTHER TYPES OF LUXURY VEHICLES, THAT DOES NOT CONFLICT WITH THE H DEMAND FOR LUXURY VEHICLES.
IF WE HAVE A HIGH MINIMUM STANDARD FOR INSURANCE, THAT PREVENTS ANY RANDOM PERSON FROM JOINING THE INDUSTRY, WHICH I KNOW IS A CONCERN. I HEARD TWO PRIMARY CONCERNS, ONE BEING BUSINESSES WHO CURRENTLY EXIST TODAY WHO STARTED UNDER EXISTING OR PREVIOUS CODES HAVE HAD TO MAKE CERTAIN INVESTMENTS AND HAVE HAD TO ABIDE BY CERTAIN STANDARDS SO EVERYONE SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE TO DO THAT AND SHOULDN'T LIMIT STANDARDS FOR FUTURE BUSIN BUSINESSES.. I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THIS PHILOSOPHY AND THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS OF THE PAST STAYS THERE. IF THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE FORWARD IN A NEW DIRECTION THEN THE NEW STANDARDS APPLY FOR EVERYBODY. THE SECOND CONCERN I HEARD, WHICH IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT, WAS EXPANDING THE DEFINITION TO CREATE A FREE-FOR-ALL AND THERE ARE OVER 400 OPERATORS IN OTHER CITIES. THAT WAS JUST ONE NUMBER LISTED, COMPARED TO THE 55 THAT EXIST HERE. HOW WOULD WE GO ABOUT PREVENTING 400 OR 500 OPERATORS FROM EXISTING? IS IT CREATING A CAP OF A CERTAIN NUMBER SO THE 55 DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE WITH 400 NEW BUSINESSES?
>> SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, WE COULD CAP LIMOUSINE PERMITS THAT ARE CURRENTLY NOT CAPPED NOW. I THINK THE OTHER THING IS, COUNCILMEMBER, THAT WE, THE STAFF, TRIED TO BUILD IN FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION THE POTENTIAL OF SAYIING TO GET IN THE INDUSTRY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT STRETCH LIMOUSINE OR WILL HAVE TO HAVE A LIMO BUS.
SO THERE'S THAT BUY-IN PIECE THAT WOULD NOT EXIST IF WE JUST SAID, "WELL, COME ON; BRING YOUR BLACK CAR AND CAN OPERATE YOUR VEHICLE IN THE INDUSTRY." WE WERE TRYING TO BALANCE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST -- AND I UNDERSTAND DON'T LIVE LIFE THROUGH THE REAR-VIEW MIRROR BUT THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD -- WE WANTED TO RESPECT AND HONOR THOSE PERMIT HOLDERS THAT CURRENTLY EXIST TODAY THAT MADE THAT INVESTMENT BY SAY, "OKAY, IF YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS INDUSTRY, THERE'S GOING TO BE AN INVESTMENT EXPECTED OF YOU." WE THINK THAT WILL ALSO HELP ANYBODY THAT HAS A BLACK SPEAK THAT WANT TO OPERATE IN THE LIMOUSINE SPACE.
>> SO THE LIMOUSINE BUSES SOUNDED LIKE A NEW OPTION THAT I DON'T KNOW THAT I PREVIOUSLY
HEARD. THAT'S HOW WE GOT TO THAT POINT, TRYING TO CREATE -- >> I DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT WORD
. >> >> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MEETS THE SPIRIT OF THE ORIGINAL DISCUSSION BUT WILL LET COUNCILMEMBER MUNGIA ADDRESS IN A BIT. I UNDERSTAND THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT A CHANGE THAT HAPPENED THIS PAST HOLIDAY SEASON THAT REDUCED I THINK THE CAPACITY FOR REVENUE, SO THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT AN INTENTION THAT WE HAD. SO I WANT TO UNDERSTAND AND WAS UNAWARE OF THE SITUATION; WAS THERE A PROCESS CHANGE ON STAFF'S END THAT LED TO THE CONFLICT WITH HARD ROCK CAFE; OR WAS IT AN UNRELATED CONFLICT AND CIRCUMSTANCE? WHAT HAPPENED?
>> SO IT'S AN ACCUMULATION OF EVENTS. AS THE CITY HAS GROWN, WE HAVE LOST THOSE AREAS TO STAGE HORSE CARRIAGES, AND THE MAIN AREA TO STAGE THEM NOW IS IN FRONT OF THE HARD ROCK CAFE.
WELL, WHEN YOU START TO DO THE CONSTRUCTION DOWNTOWN, THAT AREA GETS SQUEEZED, SO NOW YOU HAVE 25 HORSE CARRIAGES THAT MAY BE ON THE ROAD, SAY, ON NEW YEAR'S EVE, TRYING TO GET IN AND OUT OF THAT ONE STAGING AREA. SO IN PREPARATION FOR THAT, STAFF SAT DOWN WITH CCDO, PUBLIC
[00:35:04]
WORKS, AND HORSE CARRIAGE PEOPLE AND SAID, "WHERE ELSE CAN WE BUILD IN THOSE AREAS THAT THEY CAN PICK UP AND DROP OFF PASSENGERS?" UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS THE FIRST I'VE HEARD ABOUT IT AS WELL, COUNCILMEMBER. THE SIGNAGE WASN'T DONE IN A TIMELY MANNER, SO PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN. WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT FROM OUR STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE TO SEE WHAT OCCURRED AND, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD WHAT WE CAN DO; BUT WE HAD THOSE MEETINGS AND THE PLAN WAS TO OPEN THOSE AREAS FOR THOSE HORSE CARRIAGES TO PULL IN TO PICK UP AND DROP OFF PEOPLE.>> FOR SURE, AND I DON'T WANT TO RE-LITIGATE PREVIOUS POLICY WITH WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND BEEN APPROVED BY CONTINUE SILL IS THE FIVE-YEAR PHASE-OUT. I DON'T WANT TO SEE WHAT WAS AN UNDERSTANDING, AN AGREED-UPON ORDINANCE AND PHASE-OUT PERIOD, BECOMES DIMINISHED TO MAKE IT HARDER ON THE INDUSTRY THAN INTENDED BY COUNCIL. I UNDERSTAND THE HOLIDAY SEASON IS A BUSY TIME AND DON'T WANT THAT TO IMAGINE AGAIN. I IMAGINE FIESTA IS ANOTHER MAJOR SEASON.
I'M LOOKING TO THE BACK. >> (AWAY FROM MICROPHONE).
>> AS LONG AS WE CAN HAVE SIGNAGE AND MAKE SURE WHAT HAPPENED THIS PAST HOLIDAY SEASON DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN, THE SPEAKER IS HERE. IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND HAVE BEEN A CONVERSATION WITH HIM AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE MEETING, THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
>> WILL DO. >> THANK YOU. I WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER TO COUNCILMEMBERS,
STARTING WITH COUNCILMEMBER MUNGIA. >> THANK YOU. I WANT TO THANK
STAFF FOR -- >> MY BAD. I AM SO SORRY. YOU CALLED ME CHAIR GALVAN. I FORGOT TO GIVE FEEDBACK ON THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE. I WOULD BE HAPPY WITH OPTION TWO TO ALLOW EV PERMITS FOR EACH OF THE THREE OWNERS AND THINK TWO OWNERS WERE ALLOWED FIVE EACH AND ONE HAD FIVE FOR FIVE. WITHOUT REDUCING THE CAPACITY OF THOSE TWO OWNERS, I THINK ALLOWING THEM TO KEEP TEN PERMITS IS IDEAL WHILE INCREASING THE OTHER OWNERS TO
TEN. NOW, COUNCILMEMBER MUNGIA. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER MCKEE RODRIGUEZ. I WANT TO THANK STAFF FOR DUE DILIGENCE BECAUSE I KNOW THIS IS A LOT OF WORK TO TALK ABOUT. CAN WE GO TO SLIDE 8, PLEASE? SO KIND OF BASED ON A READING OF THIS, LOOKS LIKE SAN ANTONIO PROBABLY HAS THE HIGHEST THRESHOLD TO ENTER THIS BUSINESS ACROSS THESE CITIES. CAN YOU TERM THAT, BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SEEING HERE?
FROM A BUY-IN PERSPECTIVE, YES, SIR, I WOULD AGREE. >> I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARILY A BAD THING. SOME OF THE FOLKS SAID THE INVESTMENTS THEY MAKE, AND WE WOULDN'T WANT JUST ANYONE TO COME IN AND OPERATE. I THINK THE TWO STRETCH REQUIREMENT IS PROBABLY A LITTLE OF AN ANTIQUATED REQUIREMENT TO ENTER THE BUSINESS, PERSONALLY.
I THINK ABOUT SOMEBODY FROM LAST TIME -- IF SOMEBODY RIGHT NOW BOUGHT FIVE BRAND-NEW CADILLAC
ELSE ESCALADES, THEY COULD NOT GET A PERMIT. >> CORRECT.
>> IF THEY HAVE FIVE MERCEDES SPRINTER VANS, A FLEET OF BRAND-NEW, YOU KNOW, BELLS AND
WHISTLES, THEY COULD NOT OPERATE AS A LIMO SEEN COMPANY. >> AGAIN, CORRECT.
>> I THINK THAT'S -- I AGREE WITH THE CHAIR OF CHANGING THE DESIGNATION FROM LIMOUSINE SERVICE TO, YOU KNOW, LUXURY CAR SERVICE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT JUST TO EXPAND IT A LITTLE BIT; AND I THINK I DON'T SEE MORE PEOPLE ADDING LIMOUSINES TO THE MIX.
IT'S TO THE POINT THE FOLKS OPERATING ACTUAL FULL-FLEDGED LIMOUSINE COMPANIES WON'T SEE MORE LIMOUSINES COME INTO THIS MARKET AS A RESULT OF THE CHANGE AND SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE GOT TO GO WITH MODERN TIMES AS FAR AS WHAT THE DEMAND IS AND WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT BE ASKING FOR AND SO I KNOW THAT YOU ALL HAD BEEN WORKING ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS WITH A SUBCOMMITTEE, RIGHT, THROUGH TAB ABOUT CHAPTER 3 AND NOT MUCH HAPPENED -- YOU GUYS DIDN'T FIND THE RESOLUTION? IS
THAT ACCURATE? >> I THINK THAT WOULD BE AN ACCURATE STATEMENT. THE TAB HAD THE VOTE IN AUGUST AND NOT RECOMMEND ANY CHANGES TO THE LIMOUSINE REQUIREMENTS.
>> OKAY, AND GOING TO SLIDE 10, YOU HAD A MEMO SIGNED BY 5 OF 12 LIMO COMPANIES RECOMMENDING NO
CHANGES TO PERMIT. >> MM-HMM. >> I SEE THAT, BUT THAT IS STILL LESS THAN HALF OF THE FOLKS THAT DO SO I WONDER, YOU KNOW, WHAT OTHER SITUATION THEY'RE GOING THROUGH OR MAYBE THEY'RE NOT REACHABLE. THEY HAVE BEEN THERE AND
[00:40:06]
OPERATING FOR MANY YEARS AND SHOULD BE GRANDFATHERED INTO ANY CHANGES MADE.THEN TO ADD SUBSEQUENT FOLKS, I THINK INCREASING THE REQUIREMENT TO $1 MILLION.
REQUIREMENTS ARE NOT EASY. $1MILLION INSURANCE POLICY AND TWO LUXURY VEHICLE IS CLOSER TO
100K FOR THE VEHICLE. >> FOR THE LIMO BUS; YES, SIR. >> I DON'T THINK JUST ANYBODY WILL DO THAT. I DON'T THINK THAT IS SOMETHING YOU WILL SEE HAPPEN WITH THOSE REQUIREMENTS.
IF YOU GO TO SLIDE 11, I THINK DOING A LIMO SEEN BUS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD BE A REQUIREMENT. JUST CHANGING THE REQUIREMENT TO SOMETHING ELSE THAT MATCHES, HAVING THE MILLION DOLLAR CATEGORY, AND THEN MAYBE ALSO DOING THE LUXURY VEHICLE SERVICE CATEGORY COULD BE BENEFICIAL. YOU WON'T MAKE CHANGES TODAY BUT WITH THE FEEDBACK, TALK TO FOLKS AND COMPARE TO OTHER CITIES AND LET US KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS L LIKE.
DID YOU HAVE A SURVEY? >> NO. WE DID A STAKEHOLDER MEETING.
>> THEY OWN BUSINESSES AND OPERATE WITH THE CITY? >> CORRECT.
>> THAT'S SOME OF THE FEEDBACK I HAVE FOR THAT. TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATION. THANKFULLY COUNCILMEMBER SPEARS AND I WERE NOT THERE WHEN THE DECISION WAS MADE -- TO BE SERIOUS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND LIKE THE CHAIR SAID, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE UPHOLDING OUR END OF THE BARGAIN AS THE CITY VOTED TO DO SOME PHASE-OUT. IF WE'RE NOT MEETING METRICS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE ARE BECAUSE IT WAS A PROMISE MADE TO FOLKS AND MAKE SURE WE SEE THAT THROUGH. MAYBE I CAN HAVE A SEPARATE BRIEFING TO CATCH UP TO SPEED, BUT IF WE CAN CAN ADDRESS ISSUES BROUGHT UP, IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO HELP FOLKS AS THEY'RE TRANSITIONING OUT. IF YOU GO TO SLIDE 17, I DON'T KNOW THESE OPTIONS SO I WILL REFRAIN FROM MAKING A RECOMMENDATION RIGHT NOW. MAYBE WE CAN CHAT SO I CAN LEARN WHAT
IS HAPPENING HERE. >> CERTAINLY. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU, CHAIR.
>> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS PRESENTATION AND THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT BACK WITH ALL THE INFORMATION AND DO WANT TO SAY OVERARCHING BEFORE, WE SHOULD LOOK THROUGH CHAPTER 33. I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY PETTY CAN AND ELECTRIC VEHICLES SO I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT THAT COMPREHENSIVELY.
I KNOW YOU PUT BACKUP SLIDES IN. CAN WE SHOW THEM FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE COMMITTEE? THANK YOU FOR SHARING PICKUP SLIDES; I LOVE PICKUP SLIDES. SLIDES 20 AND 21.
DO YOU WANT TO GIVE CONTEXT? >> SURE. SO COUNCILMEMBER KAUR ASKED ABOUT PETTY CAN AND CURRENTLY 15 IS THE MAX SET. THOSE ARE SPLIT BETWEEN THREE COMPANIES. ONE HAS SIX, ONE HAS SEVEN, AND THE ONE HAS TWO. YOU SEE THE PICTURE ON THE BOTTOM AND TWO PERMITS HAVE BEEN ISSUED, ONE TO EACH COMPANY. WE'VE HAD PEOPLE COME AND ASK FOR ADDITIONAL PETTY CAN PER PERMITS, AND OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE ALL TAKEN. IF WE WENT TO A MASS OVERHAUL, IF YOU WILL -- MY WORDS; I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT A MASS ONE AND MAY BE DIGGING MYSELF A HOLE HERE. IF WE WENT TO OVERHAUL CHAPTER 33, THAT'S SOMETHING WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT. SO YOU KNOW, COUN COUNCILWOMAN, SECTION 620 WOULD HAVE TO BE CHANGED, REQUIRING A PERMIT HOLDER TO OPERATE AT LEAST TWO PETTY CAPS.
IF I SAID I WANT ONE, RIGHT NOW UNDER THE RULES IF THEY WERE AVAILABLE, WE'D SAY YOU HAVE TO
GET TWO TO OPERATE AS THAT COMPANY. >> WE SHOULD LOOK AT CHAPTER 33 AND FOLLOW 620 HOLISTICALLY. THE NEXT SLIDE SHOWS INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS. THE CURRENT INSURANCE REQUIREMENT FOR A PETTY CAB IS THE SAME AS A STRETCH LIMOUSINE, WHICH IS REALLY HIGH IF YOU'RE AN INDIVIDUAL TRYING TO START A BUSINESS AS PETTY CAB.
I TALKED TO A CURRENT DRIVER WHO DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE PERMITS -- THEY'RE BEING MAXED. HE SAID SOME COMPANIES ARE PAYING UP THE PERMITS AND NOT USING THE ACTUAL PERMIT BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE DRIVERS. HE HAS AN INDIVIDUAL ONE AND TO GET HIS OWN PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT HIS OWN HOURS. SO I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO RECONSIDER THAT.
[00:45:01]
IT'S A SIMILAR SITUATION AS THE HORSE CARRIAGES WHERE WE SAW THOSE COUPLE COMPANIES HAVE MULTIPLE PERMITS. I THINK WE HAVE TO DO A MORE STRATEGIC JOB -- AND I KNOW YOU'RE IN ALIGNMENT WITH THIS -- MAKING SURE WE'RE NOT OVERPREFERENTIAL, GIVING PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT, TO CERTAIN COMPANIES OVER THE OTHERS IF THEY'RE LARGER OR HAVE MORE -- OR IF THEY'RE THE FIRST ONES IN THAT NO ONE ELSE CAN COME IN TO PLAY IN THE SAND NOW WE WANT TO KEEP LETTING PEOPLE PLAY IN THE SAN. I WANT TO REITERATE WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS AS WELL AND WHEN WE BRING THIS BACK BECAUSE I'M ASSUMING WE HAVE TO BRING THIS BACK WITH UPDATES. ALSO, I REQUEST TO LOOK AT THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND THE ONE THING I THINK WOULD BE REALLY COOL IF WE COULD ADD IS LOOK AT DEMAND.CAN WE GET ANY KIND OF DATA TO SHOW HOW MANY GROUP CYCLES ARE GOING OUT? HOW MANY PETTY CABS, HOW MANY ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE IN USE? WE CAN SEE WHERE THE DEMAND FOR
SOME OF THESE IN ORDER TO REGULATE AND CONSISTENT WAY. >> O OKAY, I WILL GO BACK TO THE FULL PRESENTATION TODAY. MY FIRST QUESTION IS, SO I'M GETTING DRIVEN TO THE AIRPORT. LET'S SAY A LUXURY VEHICLE, A CADILLAC, BY SOMEONE.
ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO HAVE A LIMOUSINE PERMIT IF I'M PAYING THEM?
>> IF THEY ARE LIMOUSINE PERMITTED COMPANY, YES, UNLESS IT'S AN UPER LYFT, THEY COULD.
>> SAY THEY'RE AN INDIVIDUAL DRIVER THAT DRIVES PEOPLE FOR PAY IN A FANCY CAR OR, ACTUALLY, ANY CAR RIGHT NOW. IF I'M JUST DRIVING SOMEONE FOR PAY AND I TAKE YOU SOMEWHERE, DO
I HAVE TO HAVE A LIMOUSINE PERMIT? >> IF YOU'RE HOLING YOURSELF OUT
AS A LIMOUSINE COMPANY, I'M SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE DOING IT. >> IT'S NOT A COMPANY BUT JUST
DRIVER. >> IF I NEED A RIDE TO THE AIRPORT AND PAY MR. FILL
GILBERT $20, IT'S NOT REGULATED. >> IT'S SOMEONE WITH A BUSINESS CAR THAT SAID, "I'M A DRIVER FOR SERVICE." NOT TO CREATE MORE PERMIT FOR FOLKS, BUT I KNOW THERE ARE LOT
OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT JUST DO DRIVER FOR HIRE. >> RIGHT.
>> IT'S BASICALLY AN UNREGULATED INDUSTRY. >> THAT IS CORRECT.
>> WHAT IS THE BENEFIT FOR AN INDIVIDUAL THAT HAS A LUXURY CAR TO GO OUT AND ACTUALLY GET THIS
PERMIT? >> YOU GET THE BENEFIT OF THAT WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE AND YOU'RE HOLDING YOURSELF OUT TO THAT STANDARD SO THAT YOU CAN ADVERTISE THAT, "HEY, WE'RE PERMITTED; WE HAVE THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS. THE CITY MONITORS WHAT WE DO. OUR DRIVERS ARE MONITORED." IF YOU GOT IN AN ARGUMENT WITH THAT DRIVER -- IN YOUR HYPOTHETICAL, THERE'S NOTHING THE CITY CAN DO. IF YOU ARGUE WITH A PERMITTED LIMOUSINE DRIVER, THE CITY CAN REVOKE THAT PERMIT, SUSPEND THAT PERMIT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME WITH
THAT DRIVER. >> GOT IT, SO IF I'M AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A BLACK CADILLAC DOING THIS ON MY OWN AND DON'T WANT TO GO AFTER BIG GROUPS OF PEOPLE AND DON'T WANT TO REALLY -- I'M JUST GIVING INDIVIDUALS MY KARSAYING I'M A DRIVER FOR HIRE, I DON'T HAVE TO GO GET
THIS, I DON'T HAVE TO GET A PERMIT. >> I WOULD COUNTER AND STAY YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT INTERESTED IN GETTING A PERMIT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MEET THE PERMIT
REQUIREMENTS. >> GREAT. >> THAT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR
THE CITY TO REGULATE THAT PERSON. >> GOT IT.
>> JUST ONE-OFFS. >> I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WITH CHANGES WHICH MARKET OF PEOPLE ARE WE TRYING TO TARGET. WE'RE NOT INDIVIDUALLY TRYING TO TARGET -- INITIALLY I WAS LIKE, I WOULD WANT ALL THOSE FOLKS I HAVE RIDDEN IN CARS WITH TO GO GET A PERMIT IF THEY NEED ONE.
IF THEY DON'T, THEY'RE NOT REALLY THE TARGET MARKET. THE TARGET MARKET IS SOMEONE TRYING TO START A SMALL BUSINESS THAT WOULD ACTIVELY GO OUT AND GET GROUPS OF FOLKS THAT NEED TO BE DRIVEN AROUND WITH THOSE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS, ETC. IT'S A STANDARD THAT WE'RE
TRYING TO CREATE. >> RIGHT, AND I WOULD SAY IF YOU TAKE THE FINAL FOUR, FOR EXAMPLE -- AND I KNOW BOTH MR. MARRY AND MR. GARCIA'S WIFE'S COMPANIES PROVIDED MULTIPLE SERVICES FOR PEOPLE COMING IN FROM OUT OF TOWN. SOMEBODY HAS DONE DUE DILIGENCE AND ARE NOT RIDING AROUND. DRIVERS HAVE BEEN VETTED AND COMPANIES HAVE BEEN VETTED.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR VISITORS COMING FROM OUTSIDE THE CITY.
>> OKAY, OKAY, THAT HELPS ME KIND OF CHANGE MY, WHERE I WAS IN THE PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE INITIALLY I WAS LIKE, "WELL, IF YOU, IF WE HAVE A LIST OF LUXURY CARS, THAT SHOULD BE THE ONLY REQUIREMENT." IF WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE A SPECIFIC STANDARD, SO AN EXTERNAL USER KNOWS, THESE ARE THE STANDARDS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO RECEIVE.
(ALARM IT HAS. OH, SORRY. >> YOU CAN FINISH YOUR SENTENCE.
>> I WILL COME BACK AND FINISH MY THOUGHT AFTER. >> THANK YOU. COUNCILMEMBER
SPEARS. >> THANK YOU, CHAIR. SO ON THE LIMOUSINE -- THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATION. ON THE LIMOUSINES, IT SAYS ON SLIDE 9 THERE WERE RECEIVE
[00:50:05]
PUBLIC COMMENTS. CAN YOU SPEAK MORE TO THAT ABOUT REMOVING THE STRETCH LIMOUSINE REQUIREMENT ENTIRELY JUST SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE TWO STRETCHES?>> RIGHT. >> YOU CAN HAVE TWO LUXURY VEHICLES AND/OR A STRETCH?
>> THAT'S RIGHT, COUNCILWOMAN. >> I WOULD SAY, THEN, ON THE OPTIONS I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF MAKING NO CHANGES SINCE THAT'S WHAT THE TAB BOARD SAID AND SEVERAL OF THE OWNERS AS WELL.
AND I HAD CONCERN ABOUT THE INCREASE OF THE INSURANCE AS BEING A BARRIER AS HOW MUCH THAT WOULD COST IN ADDITION GOING UP THAT MUCH, DOUBLE ITING IT. ON THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, I -- HAVE A LOT TO SAY THIS BECAUSE THIS BECAUSE I ACTUALLY DO KNOW A LOT ABOUT I IT, COUNCILMEMBER MUNGIA. ON THE PART ABOUT THE ANIMALS, THEY STILL EXIST AND STILL HAVE TO CARE FOR THOSE ANIMALS. I MEAN, I KNOW YOU'RE TAKING THAT OUT OF THE EQUATION HERE, BUT I MEAN, THEY DON'T EVAPORATE WHEN THIS CEASES TO EXIST. IS THERE SOMETHING WE CAN DO SINCE I WOULD SUGGEST IF WE PROCEED AS PLANNED THAT WE CONSIDER HOW WE HELP WITH THAT EXPENDITURE SINCE WE ARE FORCING OUT OF THIS INDUSTRY? THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO CARE AND HAVE BARRIERS AND VETS AND ALL THE THINGS THEY HAVE TO DO FOR THOSE ANIMALS, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE COST-WISE. MAYBE WE CAN GET THAT NUMBER.
CAN YOU TELL ME, TOO, ON THE EBS HOW MUCH IT COSTS PER EB RIGHT?
>> $35 FOR A RIDE; YES, MA'AM, AVERAGES $5 FOR A RIDE. >> COMPARED TO $75 HORSE
CARRIAGE RIDE. >> YES. >> DO WE HAVE AN ANALYSIS OF LIKE A BUSINESS MODEL FOR THIS? I THINK I ASKED FOR THAT LAST TIME, TO SEE THE EV, WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE, A YEARLY, I GUESS THE FINANCIAL STAPLES YOU WOULD NEED TO SEE, TO RUN AN EV
BUSINESS VERSUS THE HORSE CARRIAGE? >> WE ASKED FOR THAT FROM THE EV
COMPANIES AND WERE VERY PROTECTIVE. >> WE HAVE NO INFORMATION ON
THAT. >> WHERE IS $5 A RIDE COMING FROM?
>> THAT'S US ASKING, "AVERAGE PER TRIP, WHAT ARE YOU CHAR CHARGING?"
THAT'S WHAT WE GOT. >> PETTY CABS ARE MORE THAN THAT.
>> WHAT'S THAT? >> PETTY CAPS ARE MORE THAN THAT.
>> I THINK THERE ARE TWO CITIES WHERE THEIR EV CARRIAGES ARE HAPPENING AND THAT'S THE REFERENCE POINT. THERE'S NOT A LARGE SAMPLE SIZE AT THIS POINT YOU'RE PUTTING PEOPLE IN FOR THE SIGHT-SEEING TOUR AND FOR DRIVING AROUND AND THAT TYPE OF THING AND A VERY ORNATE CAR CARRIAGE. YOU HAVE SEEN THE ONES THAT OPERATE DOWNTOWN. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT COST IS GOING TO BE $5 A RIDE. I THINK THAT WILL HAVE TO BE SET BY WHOEVER RUNS THAT INDUSTRY AND THINK IT'S
CLOSER TO $75. >> I'M CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THE DRIVE TERSE AND WHAT HAPPENS BECAUSE THEY'RE NO LONGER CARING FOR THE HORSES. WHAT IF WE TERM THE PILOT PROGRAM IS NO GOOD AND WANT TO GO BACK? WHAT IS THE PATH? I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING ABOUT INSURANCE FOR THE HORSES ANYWHERE. I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WILL MEASURE THE SUCCESS OF THE PILOT PROGRAM IF WE FOR A TEE SUCCESS. SOMEHOW WE HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR THE LOSS OF THIS YEAR'S INCOME BECAUSE THEY HAVE DEBTS. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GOT THROUGH THE HOLIDAY SEASON IF THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS.
HOW DO WE MAKE THAT WHOLE AGAIN I HAPPEN TO LIKE THE HORSE CARRIAGES AND IS SAD FOR ME SEEING THEM GO AWAY. TO THE THE EXTENT OF THE OPTIONS, I GUESS I FEEL LIKE I NEED MORE INFORMATION BEFORE I CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THAT.
I JUST FEEL LIKE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION HERE ON WHAT THIS EV -- BECAUSE IT DOES SAY EV -- SO WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. CAN YOU RUN BOTH AT THE SAME TIME?
EV CARRIAGES? >> SO THE OPTION DID CONSIDER THAT AS AN OPTION.
[00:55:01]
IF I'M A COMPANY AND HAVE TEN PERMIT AND WANT TO SAY I WANT TO TURN IN THREE OF MY HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS TO RUN THREE LECTS RIC CARRIAGE AND ELECTRIC CLASSIC CAR, I TURN IN THOSE THREE AND OPERATE THE SEVEN HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS UNTIL JANUARY 1, 2030.YOU'VE GOT THIS OTHER PIECE AND AS I MENTIONED IN THE BRIEF, ONE THING WE NEED BACK FROM COUNCIL AND THIS COMMITTEE WOULD BE ONCE YOU SURRENDER THAT HORSE CARRIAGE PERMIT, IF YOU FIND IT UNPROFITABLE OR THE PERMIT NO LONGER EXISTS? TWENTY-FIVE PERMITS. EACH COMPANY DOES FIVE SO WE HAVE 15 BASED ON THE DIRECTION YOU GIVE US, DO WE GO BACK AND SAY, YES, WE'LL REIMPLEMENT THOSE FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE TIME BEFORE THE PHASE-OUT ENDS; OR ARE THOSE OFFICIALLY TAKEN AND VOID NOW? THAT'S A DECISION COUNCIL, RESTS WITH COUNCIL.
>> OKAY, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME WAY TO GO BACK IF WE NEED TO.
AND I AM WORRIED ABOUT THE OTHER DRIVERS THEY EMPLOY. WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM? IT'S SORT OF A SPECIALIZED INDUSTRY. LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE. YEAH. SO I DON'T KNOW. THEY WERE RELUCTANT TO GIVE YOU ANY INFORMATION. SO NOBODY IS REALLY DOING THE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE EV -- I'M SORRY, THE
LECTS RIC CARRIAGES. >> THEY'RE NOT AUTHORIZED RIGHT NOW ON THE STREETS, COUNCILWOMAN; SO NO, NOBODY IS SOME RATING THAT ELECTRIC CARRIAGE.
THERE'S TWO I KNOW OF THAT EXIST HERE IN SAN ANTONIO OWNED BY A TRADITIONAL DRIVER -- THINK LITTLE RUNNER. I HAVE RIDDEN IN IT AND IS SIMILAR BUT NOT THE SAME AS HORSE DRAWN. THE DRIVER SITS IN THE FRONT. THE CARRIAGE LOOKS LIKE A HORSE
CARRIAGE AND DRIVES LIKE A VEHICLE, I GUESS. >> OKAY.
>> THANK YOU, COUNCILMEMBER SPEARS. COUNCILMEMBER?
>> THANK YOU, CHAIR. THANKS FOR THE PRESENTATIONS, RIC. BEFORE I BEGIN WITH THE PERMIT REQUIREMENTS, I WANTED TOO GIVE A SHOUT-OUT TO GEORGE MARY, OUR DISTRICT 7 APPOINTEE AND CHAIRS THE TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD. JUST TOTALLY GIVING YOU A SHOUT-OUT. CONGRATS ON 30 YEARS. MY TEAM AND I DEFINITELY ENJOY WORKING WITH GEORGE AND AM EXCITED TO HAVE HIM ON THIS BOARD.
I HAVE A QUESTION. FOR, WHEN IT COMES TO HOW LIMO COMPANIES OPERATE IN THE CITY, HAD WE
RECEIVED MANY COMPLAINTS ON OUR CODE PRIOR TO THIS REQUEST? >> NO, MA'AM.
THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS 24 CITATIONS OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS. WE'RE NOT --
>> OKAY. >> -- WE'RE NOT GETTING -- THIS IS A VERY WELL -- THEY DO A VERY
GOOD JOB OF POLICING THEIR OWN. >> MM-HMM. GOT IT.
I CAN ALSO APPRECIATE US KEEPING OUR CITY UP TO DATE WITH OTHER, WITH OTHER CITIES.
SO ON SLIDE 8, I NOTICED THAT WE HAD THE HIGHEST THRESHOLD FOR MARKET INDUSTRY WITH CODE REQUIRING TWO STRETCH LIMOS OR ONE LIMO OR AND TWO LUXURY VEHICLES.
DOES THE HIGHER THRESHOLD MEAN WE CAN PROVIDE HIGHER QUALITY; OR WHAT IS THE RATIONALE FOR
THAT? >> SO THE RATIONALE ORIGINALLY WAS TO HAVE, BECAUSE IT WAS NAMED THE LIMO SERVICE INDUSTRY, TO PUT LIMOS AT THE TOP OF THAT AND BUILD A PROFESSIONAL INDUSTRY BASED UPON THE STRETCH LIMO THAT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY LONG
TIME. >> OKAY, I SEE THAT. I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF CHANGING OUR REQUIREMENTS AND DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVING THE INPUT AND LISTENING TO OUR TRANSPORTATION ADVISORY BOARD TO MAINTAIN OUR CURRENT POLICY IS THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
FOR HORSE CARRIAGES, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE TO START BY SAYING MY INITIAL CONCERN WITH THESE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES WAS THEIR POTENTIAL TO HINDER PUBLIC SAFETY, IMPEDING ENERGY VEHICLES, SLOWING DOWN TRAFFIC TOWN.. ON SLIDE 17, WHY DO WE HAVE THE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF PERMITS? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 25 AND 31 NEW PERMITS?
>> CURRENT 25 HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS. IF WE WERE TO SAY LEVEL-SET IT BY THE NUMBER THAT EACH OWNER HAS -- SO RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE TWO OWNERS WITH 10 PERMITS EACH AND A THIRD OWNER WITH FIVE. IF WE LEVEL-SET HIS, THAT WOULD EQUAL 30 TOTAL PERMITS FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES. THE OTHER WAS TO TAKE EACH TO SEVEN SO THE GENTLEMAN WHO HAS FIVE GETS TWO PLUS. THE TWO WITH TEN EACH WOULD BE MINUS THREE SO MINUS SIX TOTAL.
[01:00:01]
OR TAKE IT ALL THE WAY TO FIVE. THE GENTLEMAN WITH FIVE WOULD HAVE FIVE; THE OTHER TWO WOULDLOSE FIVE EACH TOTAL TEN. OKAY. >> OKAY. I DID ADVOCATE FOR THE HORSE CARRIAGE TRANSITION AND AM GLAD TO STILL SEE WE'RE ON TRACK FOR THAT PLAN.
DO WE KNOW -- A COUPLE OF THINGS. IF THE HORSE CARRIAGE OWNER, IF ALL OF THEM FULLY TRANSITION AT ONCE TO EV PERMITS, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?
>> WELL, WE'D PUT THOSE ELECTRIC VEHICLES ON THE ROAD, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION IF -- AS COUNCILWOMAN SPEARS BROUGHT UP -- IF IT'S NOT PROFITABLE, CAN WE GO BACK? IF SO, HOW DO WE GO BACK TO THAT? SO IT WOULD CERTAINLY CAUSE -- YOU KNOW, YOU'RE EXCHANGING ONE FOR ONE, TAKING 25 HORSE CARRIAGE PERMITS AND PUTTING 25 ELECTRIC VEHICLES SO YOU'RE NOT ADDING TO THE VEHICLES UNLESS YOU DID THE OPTION WHERE YOU UPPED IT AND WOULD BRING FIVE ADDITIONAL VEHICLES YOU WOULD ADD.
>> BUT ALSO TOO, IF THERE WAS A HORSE CARRIAGE OPERATOR WHO WANTED TO TRANSITION TO AN EV
PERMIT NOW, ARE THEY ABLE TO? >> NO, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ELECTRIC CARRIAGES IN THE
ORDINANCE. IT'S PART OF THE EXERCISE. >> GOT IT; SOUND GOOD. YEAH. I THINK WE STILL HAVE SOME MORE WORK TO DO. THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. THANKS.
>> THANK YOU. COUNCILMEMBER K CABUR? >> THANK YOU, CHAIR.
I DON'T THINK THE LEVEL OF STANDARD IS $100,000 OF INSURANCE BUT $1 MILLION IS A SIGNIFICANT COST INCREASE, ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT INCREASES FOR SOMEONE TRYING TO TENTER ON A MONTHLY BASIS RATHER THAN JUST LEASING OR HAVING ACCESS TO THE VEHICLE.
ONE DRIVER MESSAGED ME SAYING COMMERCIAL INSURANCE IS ONE OF THE POSITIONEST COST BARRIERS.
I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP THAT AT $500,000 AND NOT INCREASE THAT. AS FAR AS THE VEHICLE REQUIREMENTS, I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT -- AND YOU CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
YOU CAN SEE THE RECOMMENDATION, NOT THE RECOMMENDATION, BUT -- >> OPTIONS.
>> OPTIONS. IF YOUR STRETCH LIMO STEENS HAVE OPTION -- THANK YOU FOR YOUR ADVOCACY, LEADERSHIP, AND FOR THE DRIVERS THAT CAME OUT TO SPEAK.
IT WAS GREAT TO HEAR YOUR STORY I DON'T THINK ANY MILLENNIAL -- BY 28 YEARS WORKING IN ONE COMPANY IS INCREDIBLE. THAT'S AWESOME. YOU CAN'T HAVE 28 YEARS AS A MILLENNIAL.
HOW MANY ARE YOU AT, JOHN? >> WE'RE GOOD. >> SO ANYWAYS, ON THIS I THINK THAT WE SHOULD ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT LUXURY VEHICLE OPTIONS BUT VERY CLEARLY OUTLINE WHAT WE EXPECT FROM THOSE VEHICLES WHAT OPTIONS THEY WERE TO HAVE AND IF IT'S TWO LUXURY VEHICLES, THAT'S THE REQUIREMENT TO ME, MAKING SURE THEY ARE AT A SPECIFIC STANDARD THAT YOU MENTIONED HOUSTON HAS A VERY SPECIFIC LIST OF WHAT ARE ALLOWED.
WHAT ARE SOME EXAMPLES? >> BMW, LEXUS, MERCEDES, WHAT YOU'RE THINKING.
>> AS INDUSTRIES CHANGE, IT'S HARD TO -- WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE OUR POLICIES ARE BEING UPDATED AS INDUSTRIES CHANGE AND THAT THEY'RE ALLOWING FOR THE NEW 30-YEAR-OLD GEORGE MARY TO COME IN AND ENTER THE BUSINESS AS WELL AND MAKING SURE THEY ARE, THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE THINGS WE WOULD WANT THEM TO, WHICH IS HELPING TO GROW FROM A SMALL BUSINESS.
THAT'S MY COMMENTS ON THAT. AND THEN FOR THE HORSE CARR CARRIAGES, I WANTED TO ASK -- AGAIN, GOING TO THE COMMENT, WE SHOULD LOOK AT THIS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT ALL OF EVS BECAUSE I THINK THIS WILL BE RELATED TO OUR ELECTRIC VEHICLE PERMIT AND HOW THEY SIT TOGETHER VERSUS, YOU KNOW, HOW ARE THEY DIFF DIFFERENT; AND I THINK WE SHOULD MAKE SURE IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE PERMIT AND ELECTRIC CARRIAGE PERMIT THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE TWO SEPARATE
ENTITIES, RIGHT? >> THEY WOULD BE TWO SEPARATING ENTITIES COVERED UNDER ELECTRIC VEHICLES BECAUSE THEY ALL RUN WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR, NON-COMPULSION.
THEY'RE LOW-SPEED VEHICLES, NO GREATER THAN 35 MILES AN HOUR. THAT'S WHY WE GROUPED THEM TOGETHER IS WE SAW SIMILARITY THERE AND DON'T NEED TO FORMULATE ANOTHER CHAPTER OF THE
CITY CODE TO DEAL WITH ELECTRIC CARRIAGES. >> AS FAR AS THE NUMBERS RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I THINK WE ONLY HAVE 15 RIGHT NOW? MAYBE INCREASE TO 19 FOR
[01:05:02]
ELECTRIC VEHICLES? >> 20. YES, MA'AM. >> THIS WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL
30 ON TOP OF THE 20. >> CORRECT. >> I THINK WE SHOULD OPEN THIS UP TO THE COMMUNITY AS WELL SO IF SOMEONE WANTED AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE -- BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THE OPTIONS, THE WAY THEY'RE LISTED, BASICALLY IS GEARED TOWARDS THE CURRENT PERMIT HOLDERS.
I THINK SUPPORTING THE DECISION OF MAKING SURE ALL THE COMPANIES EQUALLY HAVE ACCESS TO THOSE PERMITS BUT ALSO, IF I WANT TO GO GET AN ELECTRIC CARRIAGE NEW BECAUSE IT'S MORE AFFORDABLE BECAUSE IT'S A LOWER-COST BARRIER; OR IF SOME OF THE DRIVERS, EVEN, MAYBE IF SOME OF THE DRIVERS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY WANT TO GO OPEN THEIR OWN CARRIAGE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT. WE SHOULD HAVE A SEPARATE OPPORTUNITY THAN NOT GIVING ONE-TO-ONE.
>> I THINK I HEAR YOU SAYING WE STILL WANT TO TAKE CARE OF HORSE CARRIAGE DRIVERS, AND THEY GET A
GROUP OF PERMITS. LET'S CALL IT 30. >> YES.
>> WE WOULD ALSO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF AUTHORIZED PERMITS BY, LET'S SAY HYPOTHETICALLY, 20.
THOSE 20 WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO YOU OR I OR WHOEVER WANTED ONE. >> EXACTLY.
>> OKAY. >> I THINK WE COULD DO A FIRST PRIORITY FOR SOMEONE IF THEY WERE A DRIVER PREVIOUSLY AND WANT TO START THEIR OWN, GET THEIR OWN PERMIT TO HELP THEM.
ACTUALLY, CAN YOU GO TO THAT SLIDE? I WAS SHOCKED BY THE COST BECAUSE THE FIRST -- REMEMBER THE INITIAL COST WE THOUGHT FOR ELECTRIC CARRIAGES WOULD BE MUCH HIGHER? (ALARM). OH, I'M OUT OF TIME.
>> 15. >> I THINK I HAVE GIVEN MY COMMENTS. THANKS.
>> THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER COMMENTS? >>
(AWAY FROM MICROPHONE). >> I GUESS WHAT I WILL EXPRESS -- I WILL GO TO THE LIMOUSINE COMPANIES AND MY FEEDBACK. I KNOW I SAID I WOULD BE OKAY WITH INCREASE TO $1 MILLION.
I THINK -- I HEAR WHAT COUNCILMEMBER KAUR SAYS AND THINK 500X IS FAIR IF THAT'S THE ULTIMATE DECISION THE FULL COUNCIL MAKES WHEN THE TIME COMES.
IF IT DUSTIN CREASE, I DO THINK GRANDFATHERING THE ESTABLISHED BUSINESS OWNERS AT THEIR REQUIREMENTS SHOULD BE WHAT HAPPENS, IF THEY DECIDE TO CHANGE AND REDUCE THEIR REQUIREMENTS TO THEIR BUSINESS MODEL TO WHAT THE NEW REQUIREMENTS ARE, THEY STILL BE ALLOWED TO MAINTAIN THAT MINIMUM OF 500K. WITH HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, THIS CONVERSATION HAS BEEN A LOT MORE ABOUT THE END RESULT THAN I THINK I HAD INTENDED WHEN AGENDAIZING THE FIRST TIME. MY GOAL IS A PILOT PROGRAM THAT CAN START.
I THINK AS SOON AS OPERATORS ARE ABLE TO BEGIN OPERATING, I THINK THAT WOULD BE MY GOAL, SO IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT A PILOT PROGRAM WOULD LOOK LIKE WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT THE COST OF THE THINGS ARE. I KNOW DURING THE ORIGINAL DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PHASE-OUT WE HAD DISCUSSED CITY COUNCIL PROVIDING ASSISTANCE IN THE ACQUISITION OF THE ELECTRIC VEHICLES. I THINK GETTING TO THAT POINT AND FIGURING OUT WHAT THE PILOT PROGRAM LOOKS LIKE -- I WOULD SAY PROBABLY ADDING TWO VEHICLES PER OWNER THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HELP GET. SETTING A SET TIME WHERE, HEY, WE WANT TO FOCUS ON THESE METRICS.. RYER SATISFACTION, REVENUE, ALL THESE THINGS. SETTING THAT UP SO WE CAN GET THIS GOING. IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE NEED AN ANSWER TO AUTHORIZE THE USE OF THESE E-CARRIAGES. AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN, I ASK WE GET THAT ORDINANCE THAT WOULD AUTHORIZE THEM FOR AT LEAST THE PERIOD OF TIME IN WHICH WE HAVE A PILOT PROGRAM GOING.
MY DEADLINE WOULD BE FALL. I THINK THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THAT CAN EXPERIENCE A HOLIDAY SEASON SO THE DRIVERS AND THE OPERATORS AND BUSINESS OWNERS CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCES DURING ONE OF THEIR PEAK SEASONS. I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO SEE IT DURING ANOTHER PERIOD SO IF THERE'S ANOTHER PEAK SEASON YOU CAN TALK TO THE BUSINESS OWNERS ABOUT, I'D LIKE US TO BE A LITTLE MORE RAMPANT ABOUT THAT PART.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> YES, SIR. I THINK, YEAH, WE CAN DO THAT.
WE COULD DO TEMPORARY PERMITS FOR A PERIOD OF TIME TO MEET YOUR PILOT PROGRAM AND GATHER THOSE METRICS. TO YOUR POINT, START IN THE FALL AND GO THROUGH SPRING BREAK, IS A GOOD SIX-MONTH PERIOD TO EVALUATE, OKAY, WHAT DO WE SEE? THAT CAPTURES CHRISTMAS, NEW YEAR, VALENTINE'S SPRING BREAK, ALL THE BIG HOLIDAYS BEFORE IT GETS, YOU KNOW, REALLY HOT.
>> AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN DO THAT WOULD BE FANTASTIC, AND A PART OF THIS IS WE HAVE A DESIGNATED WINDOW THAT OWNERS MUST BE TRANSITIONING. SO THE MORE INFORMATION THEY HAVE SOONER CAN ALLOW THEM TO MAKE THE DECISION, HEY, THIS IS WORKING OUT FOR ME. I REALLY LIKE THIS. I'M GOING TO MAKE THE TRANSITION AND OPERATE THE E-CARRIAGE BUSINESS.
OR THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, TRIED IT; DIDN'T LIKE IT TOO MUCH; I'M GOING TO MOVE MY BUSINESS
[01:10:02]
ELSEWHERE OR TRANSITION TO A NEW INDUSTRY AND DO SOMETHING ELSE. I THINK ALLOWING THEM TO MAKE THE DECISION WITH AS MUCH POSSIBLE INFORMATION UP FRONT WHILE THERE'S STILL A LARGE WINDOW OF TRANSITION BECAUSE WE'RE RUNNING UP ON TIME ON THE NUMBER OF YEARS BEFORE 2030 COMES AROUND. I WILL ALSO ADD -- SO IT WAS SHOCKING TO HEAR $5.IT WAS A WHOLE DIFFERENT TYPE OF ELECTRIC VEHICLE. I HAVE GOTTEN TO RIDE IN AN E-CARRIAGE AND HAVE GOTTEN TO DRIVE ONE -- NOT HERE. IT WAS A REALLY COOL EXPERIENCE I WAS TALKING TO MY SISTER, AND SHE WOULD NEVER GET ON THE HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES.
SHE THOUGHT THE E-CARRIAGE EXPERIENCE WAS BEAUTIFUL WITHOUT THE HORSE.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO RE-LITIGATE ARGUMENTS OF THE PAST. WE WILL PHASE OUT THIS INDUSTRY DO WE WANT AN ALTERNATIVE? I BELIEVE WE DO AND WANT TO BE AS HELPFUL AS POSSIBLE IN THAT TRANSITION SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE I'M AT FOR SURE ON THAT. COUNCILMEMBER SPEARS?
>> TO ADD TO WHAT YOU WERE SUGGESTING FOR THE FALL, CAN YOU IDENTIFY FOR THESE, THE HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS, LIKE WHERE TO OBTAIN THESE CARRIAGES AND BECAUSE IT MIGHT TAKE A BIT TO
ORDER ONE? >> IT DOES TAKE A PERIOD OF TIME BUT HAVE THAT CONTACT AND CAN
SHARE THAT CONTACT WITH HORSE CARRIAGE OWNERS. >> OKAY, BECAUSE THEN LIKE IF WE SAID FALL, THEY COULD HAVE, FEASIBLY, MAYBE, HAVE ONE TO DO? YOU KNOW?
>> MAYBE SO. >> IDEALLY SO. >> THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU.
>> HOWEVER WE CAN BE HELPFUL IN ACQUIRING THEM. IF IT'S A PILOT PROGRAM, MAYBE SOMEONE WOULDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE BUYING THEIR OWN AND BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR IT SO THEY
CAN GET RID OF IT AGAIN. >> THANK YOU. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? THERE BEING KNOWN, THE TIME IS 3:15, AND WE WILL CALL THIS MEETING ADJOURNED. THANK
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.