* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER [Roll Call] THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR DECEMBER 18TH, 2019. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? FERNANDEZ HERE. FISH GIBBS. HERE. VELAZQUEZ. HERE. OLA. HERE. MARTINEZ FLORES. HERE. CARPENTER. HERE. . HERE. BOWMAN. HERE. ZER LA HERE. JUST A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WE DO HAVE SPANISH TRANSLATION SERVICES AVAILABLE FOR THIS MEETING. THERE'S A QUICK VIDEO THAT WE'LL PLAY. I, THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN [Chairman’s Statement] REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THIS BOARD TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY AND IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY. IN CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARD FOR REHABILITATION, THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE, AND ANY ADDITIONAL DESIGN GUIDELINES ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF OR AN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA? PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. THE SHEET, THE, THE SIGN-IN SHEET SHALL BE AVAILABLE UNTIL THE ITEM IS CALLED. YOU'LL BE CALLED ON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH YOU ARE SIGNED UP. FOR ALL CASES HEARD TODAY, SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES EACH. UP TO TWO SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR TIME TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP FOR A MAXIMUM TOTAL OF SIX MINUTES. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. NO PERSON CAN SPEAK UN UNTIL RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIR. WHEN IT IS YOUR TURN TO SPEAK, PLEASE APPROACH THE PODIUM, SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE AND PROVIDE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. SPEAKERS SHALL ADDRESS ALL COMMENTS TO THE COMMISSION. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS SHALL BE ALLOWED BY ANY SPEAKER. THE MEETING IS BEING RECORDED AND LIVE STREAMED AND WE ASK THAT ALL COMMENTS AND DISCUSSION BE MADE INTO THE MICROPHONE. WE ALSO ASK THAT EVERYONE PRESENT, BE RESPECTFUL OF INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS AND REMAIN SILENT WHILE EACH PERSON IS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. PARTICIPANTS THAT SPEAK OUT OF TURN OR ARE DISRUPTIVE WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE OR ESCORTED FROM THE FACILITY. FURTHERMORE, ANY COMMENTS THAT MAY BE PERCEIVED AS A THREATENING OR INSULTING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND SPEAKERS WILL BE ESCORTED FROM THE FACILITY AT THIS TIME. PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. THANK YOU. JUST [Announcements] A FEW QUICK ANNOUNCEMENTS 'CAUSE WE DO HAVE A FULL, FULL HOUSE HERE. UM, IF YOU ARE STANDING IN FRONT OF THOSE DOUBLE DOORS, YOU CANNOT STAND THERE. UM, YOU CAN STAND ON THE SIDE OF THE ROOM OR WE CAN MOVE TO THE DESIGNATED OVERFLOW SPACE IN THE TOBIN ROOM, WHICH IS JUST HERE THROUGH THE DOUBLE DOORS TO YOUR LEFT. UM, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO VIEW THE HEARING THERE. IT'S LIVE STREAMED. THERE'S ALREADY A FEW PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD A SEAT IN THERE. SO AGAIN, PLEASE EITHER MOVE TO THE SIDE OF THE ROOM IF YOU'RE GONNA STAND, UM, OR GO HAVE A SEAT IN THE OVERFLOW SPACE IN THE TOBIN ROOM. UM, AND AGAIN, WITH THE UPCOMING HOLIDAY CITY OFFICES WILL BE CLOSED, UM, FROM DECEMBER 24TH TO JANUARY 1ST. UM, THE H C R C UM, SCHEDULE AND APPLICATION DEADLINES HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT THE SCHEDULE. AND SO THOSE ARE AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE@SAPRESERVATION.COM. UM, WITH THAT WE'RE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE AGENDA. UM, YOU'LL SEE ON THE SCREEN, UM, ITEMS A ['A' CONSENT AGENDA] ONE THROUGH A FIVE ARE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA. WE HAVE SPEAKERS FOR ITEMS A THREE AND A FIVE AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE REMAINDER. MR. CHAIRMAN, WITH YOUR PERMISSION, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF ITEMS A ONE, A TWO AND A FOUR WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND, SECOND MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES YOUR ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS TWO 30 EAST HOUSTON 3 26 EAST GRAYSON IN 10 0 9 [00:05:01] AVENUE B. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF, YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER. WE'LL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RETURNED THE PUBLIC NOTICE, YARD SIGN PLACED ON YOUR PROPERTY, PLEASE DO SO AT THE O H P COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM A THREE. [A-3 19-9219 Address/Description: 1720 S ST MARYS 1714 S ST MARYS 141 JACOBS HDRC Case No.: 2019-669 Landmark Name: Commercial Building RIO District: RIO-4 Applicant: Patrick Christensen Request: Construction of a 4-story addition and a 2-story residential structure City Council Dist.: 1] UM, ADDRESS IS 17 14 70 20 SOUTH ST. MARY'S. UM, WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS SIGNED IN, UM, CHERISE ROAR ALLI. UM, AND CATHERINE DOSETTE WILL BE NEXT. SO PLEASE MAKE YOUR WAY TO THE FRONT. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I'M RIS FOR EGRIN. I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE LAVACCA NEIGHBORHOOD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND WHOSE NEIGHBORHOOD THIS PROJECT IS LOCATED. THE ASSOCIATION WOULD LIKE TO NOTE THAT WHILE THE APPLICANT'S REDUCTION OF ONE OF THE BUILDINGS FROM FOUR TO THREE STORIES IS VERY MUCH APPRECIATED, WE STILL HAVE CONCERNS REGARDING THE IMPOSING NATURE OF THE DESIGN AS IT RELATES TO HISTORIC COMMERCIAL STOREFRONTS AND THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD CONTEXT. AS YOU KNOW, THE ADJACENT PROPERTIES TO THE REAR AND TO THE NORTH ARE ONE STORY RESIDENCES, UH, AND THE COMMERCIAL STOREFRONT IS POSITIONED BEHIND THIS ONE STORY. UM, ALTHOUGH ST. MARY'S STREET IS A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR WHERE WE PREFER TO FOCUS DENSITY, THE AIM IS TO ENSURE THAT THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS REMAIN THE FOCUS OF THE DISTRICT. AND THAT'S ACCOMPLISHED BY DESIGNING ADDITIONS THAT ARE SUBORDINATE TO THE PRINCIPAL FACADE AS VIEWED FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY, THE PROPOSED THREE STORY EDITION REMAINS OUT OF SCALE WITH THE HISTORIC COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES, THE APPLICANT IS HAVING DIFFICULTY INCORPORATING THEIR DENSITY INTO THE HISTORIC DESIGN BECAUSE THE DENSITY IS SIMPLY TOO MUCH. WE SUGGEST THAT AN H D R C HEARING ON DESIGN IS PREMATURE BECAUSE THE DENSITY HAS NOT YET BEEN APPROVED THROUGH THE ZONING, UH, CHANGE. THEIR REQUEST IS FOR 80 UNITS PER ACRE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY DOUBLE WHAT IS RECOMMENDED FOR THE SA TOMORROW PLAN. AND THEY'RE HAVING DIFFICULTY FITTING THAT INTO A DESIGN THAT'S HISTORICALLY APPROPRIATE FOR THIS AREA. SO, UH, WHAT WE RECOMMEND IS THAT WE DO NOT APPROVE NOW SO THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THE DENSITY AND THEN INCORPORATE THE DENSITY APPROPRIATELY INTO THE DESIGN. AND WE ALSO WANNA NOTE THAT THE BUILDING BEHIND AT 1 41 JACOB STREET, WE RECOGNIZE THIS IS NOT PART OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT THAT IS BEING USED TO ENHANCE THE DENSITY. THE RESULT OF THAT IS IT TAKES AWAY PARKING AS WELL. UH, SO WHAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING IS THAT EVEN THOUGH THAT'S TECHNICALLY A DIFFERENT ADDRESS, IT BE LOOKED AT AS ONE WHOLE PROPERTY AS A WHOLE AND THAT BUILDING BE CONSIDERED IN THE PROCESS AS WELL. SO WHILE WE DON'T NECESSARILY OPPOSE THE THREE STORY BUILDING, WE DO SAY THAT THE DESIGN IS PROBLEMATIC. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. JUST SET. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS CATHERINE DOUCETTE AND I RESIDE AT ONE 20 JACOBS STREET. UM, LAST TIME WE SPOKE IN FRONT OF YOU, THE BIGGEST ISSUE ON OUR MINDS WAS THE FOUR STORY BUILDING, WHICH HAS BEEN MODIFIED TODAY AS THE PROPOSED THREE STORY BUILDING. THE UNDERLYING ISSUE AT THAT TIME, AND ONE THAT I'M NOT SURE YOU'RE AWARE OF, IS THAT THE APPLICANT PLANS TO PUT A 40 UNIT HOTEL AT THE END OF OUR STREET. IN THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS, IT HAS BECOME ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT THE APPLICANT NEVER INTENDED TO MAKE THE UNITS IN THESE BUILDINGS RESIDENCES, BUT RATHER ALWAYS INTENDED THEM AS HOTEL UNITS, WHICH WILL HAVE LIMITED TO NO OVERSIGHT AS A HOTEL MIGHT REQUIRE, AND NO LIFE SAFETY MEASURES. WHEN THE APPLICANT'S ATTORNEY USES THE WORD RENTAL, WHAT HE ACTUALLY MEANS IS HOTEL UNIT. UM, NOT ONLY THAT, AS CHERRI SAID, 40 UNITS ON A HALF ACRE, WHICH IS THE SUM OF ALL OF THESE LOTS PUT TOGETHER, IS DOUBLE WHAT IS CALLED FOR IN THE ESSAY TOMORROW PLAN. NOW I UNDERSTAND ZONING DENSITY AND HOTEL USE ARE NOT, OR, OR OUTSIDE THE PURVIEW OF THIS COMMISSION. HOWEVER, I DO STRONGLY FEEL THAT MAKING DECISIONS ON BUILDING DESIGN ARE NOT YET RIPE WHEN THE OVERREACHING ISSUE OF DENSITY AND HOTEL HAS NOT YET BEEN DETERMINED WITH CITY COUNCIL. UH, DECISIONS BEING MADE TODAY MAY BE MADE BLINDLY AND THAT CAN NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT A DECISION NOT BE MADE TODAY, BUT RATHER DEFERRED UNTIL FURTHER NEGO NEGOTIATIONS CAN TAKE PLACE WITH THE APPLICANT AND A DECISION CAN BE REACHED WITH THE OTHER GOVERNING AUTHORITIES WHO DESIGN, WHO DECIDE ON ZONING DENSITY AND HOTEL USE. BUT IF IN FACT, A DECISION MUST BE REACHED TODAY, WE RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSAL FOR A THREE-STORY BUILDING AS WELL AS THAT NEW BUILDING PROPOSED AT 1 41 JACOB STREET, BE DENIED SO THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THE DENSITY ISSUE AT A LATER DATE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION [00:10:02] THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. PATRICK CHRISTENSEN, THREE 10 SOUTH ST. MARY'S, SUITE 2,700. I'LL BE BRIEF. I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT ON YOUR AGENDA TODAY. UM, WE AGREE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. WE'VE ADDRESSED THE CONCERNS THIS COMMISSION HAD THE LAST TIME WE WERE HERE. UM, SO WE WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WOULD, UH, SUPPORT OUR, OUR, UH, DESIGN HERE, THOUGH THE ZONING'S A SEPARATE ISSUE. YOU KNOW, WE, WE GOTTA GO BACK TO COUNCIL. IF WE GET, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S 45 UNITS, 25 UNITS, 39 UNITS, UM, WE STILL WANNA GO FORWARD WITH THIS DESIGN. WE'RE, WE DON'T WANNA GET STUCK IN THAT CHICKEN AND EGG PROBLEM WHERE WE GET A DENSITY AT COUNCIL AND WE GOTTA COME BACK TO H G R C AND Y'ALL MIGHT NOT NOT LIKE THAT. SO WE WOULD ASK THAT WE GET OUR H G R C APPROVAL AND WE GO FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL. IF COUNCIL WORST CASE SCENARIO FLAT OUT DENIES OUR CASE, THEN WE GO AWAY AND SO DOES THE DESIGN. BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THE BALL MOVING AND GET OUR DESIGN APPROVED TODAY. THANK YOU. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'M HERE WITH THE ARCHITECTS. THANK YOU. A QUESTION OF STAFF, UH, FOR STAFF. CAN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE LIMITS OF OUR PURVIEW ON THIS CASE? YEAH. UM, SO AGAIN, AS YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE H C R C DOES NOT REVIEW THE USE OF THE STRUCTURE. UM, AND SO OFTENTIMES WHEN THERE'S A PROJECT THAT REQUIRES A REZONING TO A HIGHER DENSITY OR DIFFERENT USE, UM, IT MAY PROMPT, UM, DISCUSSIONS AT THE ZONING LEVEL ABOUT, UH, WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE SITE, UM, AND FOR HISTORIC LANDMARKS AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS. THAT ALSO PROMPTS THE DISCUSSION HERE ABOUT THE DESIGN. UM, SO THE H C R C IS TASKED WITH REVIEWING THE, THE DESIGN OF THE SITE, UM, PROPOSED ALTERATIONS TO HISTORIC STRUCTURES, BUT NOT THE NUMBER OF UNITS FOR PROPOSED DENSITY. THERE ARE LIMITATION ON THE, THE SITE DESIGN, GIVEN THE WAY THESE ARE PARCELED OUT AND THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, A LANDMARK DESIGNATION RATHER THAN, THAN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. UM, NO, I MEAN THEY'RE TREATED SIMILARLY. THIS IS A, ESSENTIALLY AN ADDITION TO HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, SO IT'S REVIEWED BY THE SAME SET OF GUIDELINES AS IT WOULD BE WITHIN A DISTRICT. I, I WOULD LIKE TO, UM, THANK THE APPLICANT. I THINK THAT THE DESIGN HAS IMPROVED A LOT SINCE LAST TIME WE SAW IT. UM, I LIKE HOW THEY'VE, UM, ON THE EXISTING TWO-STORY BUILDING, THE HISTORIC BUILDING, HOW THAT, UM, UH, HOW THEY'VE, YOU KNOW, PUT ON THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION ON THERE. UM, AND THIS WAS A CONSENT AGENDA AND AS WELL CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. AND I THINK THE APPLICANT ALSO KNOWS THAT WE CAN, YOU KNOW, CONCEPTUAL IS NOT BINDING IN ANY WAY FROM US. UM, SO I, I WOULD MOVE FOR MOTION TO APPROVE. I'LL SECOND WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SORRY, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THE NEXT ITEM IS ITEM [A-5 19-9227 Address/Description: 1900, 1990 BROADWAY HDRC Case No.: 2019-723 RIO District: RIO-2 Applicant: Patrick Christensen/Attorney Request: Construction of a mixed-use tower City Council Dist.: 2] A 5 1919 90 BROADWAY. UM, WE HAVE ONE CITIZEN SIGNED IN TO SPEAK VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE. BUSY DAY FOR EVERYBODY TODAY. MY NAME IS VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE. I LIVE AT 91 18 FAIRLAND AND I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY. IN OCTOBER, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OBJECTED TO THE DEMOLITION OF THREE HISTORIC ROW HOUSES THAT FORM PART OF THIS PROJECT. WE FURTHER OBJECT TO THE DEMOLITION OF THE STILL GOLDEN BUILDING AT 1900 BROADWAY, WHICH APPEARS TO HAVE INTEGRITY TO ITS 1944 APPEARANCE AS AN AUTOMOBILE DEALERSHIP ALONG SAN ANTONIO'S AUTO ROW. THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU OFFERS CONTRADICTORY INFORMATION REGARDING WHETHER THE BUILDING MEETS THE CRITERIA FOR A HISTORIC STRUCTURE. WE BELIEVE IT DOES. WE FURTHER DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE BUILDING COULD NOT BE INCORPORATED INTO THE PLANNED BUILDING AS IT ADDRESSES THE CORNER IN A SIMILAR FASHION TO THE NEW DESIGN AND DOES NOT UNDERPIN THE TALLER PORTION OF THE PROJECT. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. PETTY ZZ PRESIDENT. THANK YOU. IS THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE AND COMMISSIONERS PATRICK CHRISTENSEN. THREE 10 SOUTH ST. MARY'S SUITE 2,700. UM, WE'VE COMPLIED WITH THE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE, THE PRELIMINARY HEARING THAT WE'RE HERE TODAY FOR THE FINAL APPROVAL. UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I'M HERE WITH THE ARCHITECTS. WE WOULD RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR SUPPORT. THANK YOU [00:15:04] FISH. UM, JUST A BRIEF REPORT FROM A SITE VISIT. UH, WE DID REVIEW, VISIT THE SITE AND, UH, REVIEW THE PROPERTY AND NOTED THAT THERE WERE LOTS OF REVISIONS OVER TIME AND THAT THE INTEGRITY OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL WAS LIMITED. UM, I CONCUR WITH STAFF AND MY, UH, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ON THE D R C AND I'D MOVE FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. SECOND. A MOTION TO SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME. SAY NAY. NAY. MOTION PASSES. THE TIME IS NOW [Executive Session] 1:25 PM ON WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 18TH, 2019. IT HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS WILL MEET IN EXECUTIVE SESSION TO CONSULT WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE REGARDING LEGAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH ALAMO PLAZA. WE WILL RETURN ONCE THAT SESSION IS COMPLETE. THANK YOU. UM, AND FOR THOSE, UH, VIEWING THE STREAMING SESSION, UM, BY MY COUNT, THERE'S AT LEAST FIVE OR SIX SEATS THAT HAVE OPENED UP, SO WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIT EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM FOLLOWING EXECUTIVE SESSION. UM, THE SIGN-IN SHEET FOR THIS ITEM IS ALSO STILL AVAILABLE, UM, UNTIL THE ITEM IS CALLED, TIME IS NOW 2:01 PM ON WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 18TH, 2019, THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO WILL NOW RECONVENE AN OPEN SESSION. NO OFFICIAL ACTION WAS TAKEN. OKAY, UP NEXT IS, UM, ITEM NUMBER [A-6 19-9195 Address/Description: 300 ALAMO PLAZA, 300 BLOCK OF BONHAM, 200 BLOCK OF E CROCKETT, ALAMO PLAZA PARK HDRC Case No.: 2019-702 Historic District Name: Alamo Plaza Historic District Landmark Name: Alamo / Alamo Plaza Applicant: City of San Antonio Request: Street Improvements, Landscaping and Hardscaping Improvements, Final Repair and Restoration of the Cenotaph in a new plaza City Council Dist.: 1] A SIX H C R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 7 0 2. ADDRESS IS 300 ALAMO PLAZA, THE 300 BLOCK OF BONHAM STREET, THE 200 BLOCK OF EAST CROCKETT AND ALAMO PLAZA PARK, UH, VICINITY. UM, THE REQUEST IS FOR STREET IMPROVEMENTS, LANDSCAPING AND HARDSCAPING IMPROVEMENTS AND FINAL REPAIR AND RESTORATION OF THE CAF IN A NEW PLAZA. AND JUST AS A REMINDER FOR EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE TODAY, UM, THE COMMISSION IS NOT CONSIDERING THE RELOCATION OF THE CAF AT TODAY'S MEETING. UM, FINAL APPROVAL TO RELOCATE THE CTA WAS APPROVED ON OCTOBER 10TH, 2018. UM, THE 2018 REQUEST SAID, DISMANTLE, REPAIR AND REASSEMBLE THE SENATE T IN ALMO PLAZA AT THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF THE EXISTING BANDSTAND. EXACT POSITIONING AND FINAL PLAZA DESIGN WILL BE CONSIDERED AT A FUTURE DATE. TODAY'S ACTION WILL BE LIMITED TO WHAT IS POSTED ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS STREET IMPROVEMENTS, LANDSCAPING, AND HARDSCAPING IMPROVEMENTS, FINAL REPAIR AND RESTORATION OF THE SYNAP IN A NEW PLAZA. UM, WE WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO USE YOUR TIME TO ADDRESS THE MATTERS ON TODAY'S AGENDA SPECIFICALLY. UM, WE ALSO WANT TO ENSURE THAT, UM, EVERYONE WHO IS SIGNED IN TO SPEAK TODAY IS TREATED FAIRLY AND WITH RESPECT. UM, WE EXPECT THAT THE SAME AMOUNT OF RESPECT IS GIVEN TO OUR COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE VOLUNTEERS AND, UM, GIVE A GREAT DEAL TO THE CITY. UM, BY PROVIDING IN THIS, SERVING IN THIS WAY, UM, WE WON'T TOLERATE ANY, UM, THREATENING OR DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOR. AND IF THAT HAPPENS, UM, YOU WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE THE ROOM. UM, WE ALSO HAVE A VERY FULL AGENDA TODAY. UM, THE ALAMO, UH, RELATED ITEM IS JUST ONE OF 40 PLUS CASES BEING HEARD, SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT DISCUSSIONS REMAIN RELEVANT AND THAT YOU ARE RESPECTFUL OF THE TIME ALLOTTED. UM, EVERYONE WILL BE, WILL RECEIVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME, AND IF YOU EXCEED YOUR SPEAKING TIME, YOU'LL BE GIVEN A WARNING AND THEN, UM, THE MICROPHONE WILL BE TURNED OFF. THANK YOU. OKAY, SO AT THIS TIME WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH, UM, PUBLIC COMMENTS OR, YEAH. OKAY. SO I HAVE THE SIGN IN SHEET. IT'S BEEN PULLED. UM, WE'RE NOT ACCEPTING ANYMORE. WE WILL HAVE THE PRESENTATION NOW. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I'M LORI HOUSTON, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, AND I'VE BEEN HONORED TO BE A PART OF THIS PROJECT SINCE 2012. BUT OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS, WE'VE HAD A TEAM OF DEDICATED CITIZENS, THE ALAMO CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE, AND SEVERAL OTHER STAKEHOLDERS HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE ALAMO PLAN, WHICH WAS ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL ON OCTOBER 18TH, 2018. PRIOR TO THAT ADOPTION, H D R C DID TAKE ACTION ON SEVERAL ITEMS WITHIN THAT PLAN THAT INCLUDED APPROVAL OF THE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN OF THE TREATMENT OF THE HISTORIC MISSION, SAN ANTONIO DAVE VALERO SITE, THE TREATMENT OF THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY SURROUNDING THE HISTORIC MISSION FOOTPRINT AND ALTERATIONS TO THE PASEO DEL ALAMO MAVERICK WALK AREA AND THE GEORGIA FRIENDSHIP AREA. THIS COMMISSION AT THAT MEETING ALSO PROVIDED FINAL APPROVAL TO DISMANTLE, REPAIR, AND REASSEMBLE THE SYNTA IN ALAMO PLAZA AT THE APPROXIMATE LOCATION OF THE EXISTING BANDSTAND WITH FINAL APPROVAL OF THE EXACT POSITIONING OF THE CTA TO RETURN TO THIS COMMISSION AT A LATER DATE. TODAY [00:20:01] WE'RE REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO BONHAM AND EAST CROCKETT STREETS LANDSCAPING AND HARDSCAPING TO EXPAND THE PEDESTRIAN PLAZA SOUTH OF THE HISTORIC MISSION FOOTPRINT, AND THE POSITIONING OF THE SYNTA WITHIN THE PROPOSED PLAZA. THIS IS THE FIRST PHASE OF CONSTRUCTION OF THE ALAMO PLAN. P G A V DESTINATIONS HAS BEEN THE DESIGN TEAM FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS AND LOVE THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ALAMO PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED LAST YEAR HERE TO PRESENT THIS ITEM AS JOHN CASMAN WITH P G A V DESTINATIONS. AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, AGAIN, MY NAME IS JOHN KASMAN. I'M WITH P G A V DESTINATIONS. UH, ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, UH, WE HAD A LITTLE BIT LARGER TEAM UP HERE PRESENTING A MUCH LONGER PRESENTATION. AND SO TODAY WHAT, UH, WHAT WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD IS AN ABBREVIATED PORTION OF THAT. UH, SO IF YOU RECALL TWO WEEKS AGO, WE KIND OF HAD THREE CHAPTERS TO OUR, UH, TO OUR DISCUSSIONS. WE TALKED ABOUT THE SITE STRATEGIES, WE TALKED ABOUT RESTORATION, UH, DETAILS AND QUESTIONS, AND THEN WE TOUCHED ON INTERPRETIVE UH, CONTENT AS WELL. TODAY. WHAT YOU'LL SEE IN THE NEXT FEW SLIDES IS JUST A RECAP OF THAT. IT IS THE SAME PRESENTATION CONTENT THAT WHAT YOU SAW BEFORE. AND SO WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO IS TO ABBREVIATE THAT JUST AS A REMINDER, UH, OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS. SO WITH THAT, UH, AS LORI SAID, THIS IS, UH, THIS IS PHASE ONE OF WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED OF THE OVERALL ALAMO PLAN, INTERPRETIVE PLAN. SO WHAT WE'D LIKE TO FOCUS ON TODAY IS, IS JUST THAT PROPOSED SCOPE BOUNDARY THAT INCLUDES THAT SOUTH AREA, AN AREA, THE PROPOSED, UH, RELOCATION, THE, THE , AS WELL AS THESE CROCKETT AND UP UP BOTTOM AS WELL. SO YOU'LL SEE THAT BLACK, UH, BOUNDARY IS THE ONE THAT WE'LL BE BE REFERRING TO TODAY. UH, WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN IS THE, IS THE PROPOSED LANDSCAPE PLAN AND PAVING PLAN, UH, WHICH WE'LL DIVE INTO IN A LITTLE BIT GREATER DETAIL. THE, JUST AS A REMINDER, WE HAVE AS A DESIGN TEAM LOOKED AT THIS NOT ONLY AS PHASE ONE, BUT ALSO HOW IT RELATES TO THE FUTURE PHASES. AND WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME HOW A LOT OF THE, THE PAVING CHOICES AND EVEN THE LANDSCAPE CHOICES AS WELL AS ORIENTATION OF ELEMENTS REALLY DOES, UH, HAVE A, A DEEP CONNECTION TO, UH, FUTURE PHASES. WITH THAT, UH, A FEW DETAILS JUST AS A REMINDER OF WHAT WE HAVE CONSIDERED, THE GREAT AMOUNT OF DETAIL THAT'S GOING INTO UNDERSTANDING OF UNDERGROUND UTILITIES, DRAINAGE, UH, ACCESS FOR NOT ONLY EMERGENCY ACCESS, BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE PARADE ROUTE THAT GOES AROUND IT. SO THAT DIAGRAM THAT YOU'LL RECALL, UH, EVERYTHING HIGHLIGHTED IN RED STARTS TO GO INTO THOSE, UH, RESTRICTED AREAS THAT YOU'LL SEE THE PROPOSED, UH, LOCATION OF THE SENATE TEST FITS WITHIN. UH, ALSO WE TALKED ABOUT ORIENTATION QUITE A BIT LAST TIME. WE TALKED ABOUT THE PROPOSAL OF THE ORIENTATION OF THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE TO BE FACING, UH, TO BE FACING NORTH TOWARDS THE CHURCH, TOWARDS THE BATTLEFIELD, UH, WHICH IS 180 DEGREE FLIP FROM WHAT IT IS NOW. UH, WE WENT THROUGH DISCUSSIONS ABOUT, UH, THE DESIGN CHOICES AND THE DEEP DETAIL THAT WE'VE WENT INTO AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE CTA, THE DESIGN INTENT, UH, OF KINI, AND REALLY FOCUSED ON THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE AND THE INTENT OF THAT PIECE OF SCULPTURE FACING TOWARDS THE BATTLEFIELD TOWARDS THE CHURCH IS WHAT YOU'LL SEE STILL. UH, TODAY, AS, AS PART OF THE PROPOSAL TALKED ABOUT THE SITE DESIGN OF CREATING AN OUTDOOR ROOM. UH, WE WENT INTO MUCH MORE DETAIL BACK THEN ABOUT THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE LANDSCAPE AND THE DESIGN OF THE SITE CURBS AND ALSO THE SITE AMENITIES AROUND IT. UH, SO WITH THAT, THE NEXT FEW SLIDES START TO SHOW SOME OF THOSE RENDERINGS, UH, START TO SHOW THE INTENT OF THAT OUTDOOR ROOM, THE LIVE OAKS SURROUNDING 'EM, MUCH LIKE THE LIVE OAKS DO NOW, UH, AS WELL AS SOME SITE AMENITIES LIKE BENCHES TO BE ABLE TO, UH, FACE THE CTAF, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE DO NOW. A LOT OF FOLKS SIT THERE AND FACE THEIR BACK TOWARDS AND FACE AWAY OUR INTENT WITH THIS, UH, SITE DESIGN, THE DETAILS OF IT THAT WE'RE PRESENTING IS TO REALLY FOCUS ON THAT AS A CONTEMPLATIVE SPACE. WE ALSO WANT TO REMIND IT THAT WE DID PRESENT LAST TIME THE DESIGN INTENT FOR SOME OF THE MATERIALS. AGAIN, BECAUSE THIS IS A BIG CHOICE THAT WILL AFFECT THE WAY THAT THE PAVING EXTENDS IN THE FUTURE PHASES. WE TALKED IN GENERAL, UH, TONE ABOUT THE MATERIALITY, RIGHT? THE INTENT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S, UH, SPOKEN TO A, A COMBINATION OF SMALL SCALE TONE AND LARGE SCALE STONE, BUT ALSO, UH, UNDERSTANDING OF THE, THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE LANDSCAPE TO MAKE SURE WE FOCUSED A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS OF THE CANOPY AND THE SHADE, BUT ALSO MAKING SURE THAT THE SHRUB LEVEL STAYS LOW. SO GREAT LINES OF SIGHT ACROSS, UH, THAT LOCATION AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE GROUND COVER TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S REGIONALLY APPROPRIATE. UM, STABLE SHADE, TOLERANT, RESILIENT, UH, LANDSCAPE CHOICES. UH, FINALLY ONE OF THE LAST DETAILS THAT WE SPOKE OF LAST TIME TWO [00:25:01] WEEKS AGO WAS ABOUT THE ADDITION OF LIGHTING, WHICH IS NOT THERE NOW. AND SO WE PRESENTED IN A FEW EXTRA, UH, DETAILS THE PROPOSED LIGHTING SCHEME. IT TALKS ABOUT CONTINUITY OF SURFACE LIGHTING, HIGHLIGHTING THE MONUMENT, WHICH IS NOT HIGHLIGHTED NOW, SPECIFICALLY NOT AS A, A LARGE BEACON OF LIGHT, BUT HIGHLIGHTING THE SCULPTURAL PIECES AND ALSO ANIMATING THE GROUND PLANE, KINDA WASHING A DOWN LIGHTING FOR, FOR SAFETY AND ENJOYMENT OF THE ENTIRE PLAZA. WITH THAT, UH, IN CONCLUSION, WE, WE PULLED OUT A COUPLE OF THE AERIAL VIEWS THAT YOU SAW LAST TIME, STARTING TO CAPTURE NOT JUST THAT AREA IN FRONT OF THE MANGER WHERE THE, UH, PROPOSED LOCATION AND ORIENTATION OF THE CTA, BUT YOU'LL SEE HOW IT TURNS THE CORNER AND EXTENDS, UH, EXTENDS ACROSS CROCKETT AND UP BOTTOM. UH, AND THAT IS THE VIEW OF JUST PHASE ONE AND ITS COMPLETED FORM. AND THEN ALSO AS A REMINDER, UH, AS WE START TO APPROACH FUTURE PHASES AGAIN, THAT CONTINUITY IS, IS IMPORTANT TO US. UH, WITH THAT, JUST A REMINDER, THAT LAST SLIDE AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST THE PHASE ONE SCOPE BOUNDARY, UH, WITHIN THE BLACK LINE. THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. NOW HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT. UH, BEFORE THAT, UH, THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING THIS AFTERNOON. THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ALAMO AND THE SURROUNDING ALAMO PLAZA IS AN IMPORTANT PROJECT AND SHOULD BE HANDLED WITH GREAT RESPECT AND THOUGHTFUL DELIBERATION. THE MOVING OF THE SYNTA AND ITS NEW, NEW LOCATION WERE APPROVED IN OCTOBER, 2018. THE ACTION ITEMS FOR THE COMMISSION TODAY INCLUDE THE PROPOSED ORIENTATION OF THE SYNTA IN THIS LOCATION, AS WELL AS HARDSCAPE AND SOFTSCAPE SURROUNDING THE SYNTA AND THE STREETS EAST AND SOUTH OF THE CHURCH. THAT WILL BE CLOSED FOR TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. EVERYONE WHO HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES. WE APPRECIATE THAT EMOTIONS ARE RUNNING HIGH, BUT WE ASK THAT SPEAKERS KEEP THEIR COMMENTS TO THE ACTION ITEMS ON TODAY'S AGENDA. THANK YOU. UM, WHEN I CALL YOUR NAME, PLEASE UM, COME TO THE PODIUM AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS INTO THE MICROPHONE. UH, PLEASE MAKE SURE THE MICROPHONE IS TURNED, UM, TOWARDS YOU SO WE CAN HEAR YOUR COMMENTS. FOR THE RECORD, UM, I'M GONNA CALL YOU TWO AT A TIME, SO I'M GONNA CALL A SPEAKER FOLLOWED BY WHO'S UP NEXT. UM, IF YOU COULD GO AHEAD AND MAKE YOUR WAY UP TO THE FRONT WHEN YOU HEAR YOUR NAME, THAT WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. UM, I'M ALSO GOING TO GIVE A 15 SECOND WARNING SO THAT, YOU KNOW, TO WRAP UP YOUR COMMENTS. UM, IF, IF WE NEED A 32ND WARNING, IF THAT'S PREFERRED, WE CAN GO THAT WAY AS WELL. UM, BUT WE'LL START WITH THAT. SO MAGGIE WRIGHT, FOLLOWED BY LEE SPENCER WHITE, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING US TO SPEAK. MY NAME IS MAGGIE CLAPTON WRIGHT, AND I'M HERE FROM BURLESON 72 16 COUNTY ROAD 8 0 2. AND UM, I'M A SEVENTH GENERATION TEXAN. HISTORY IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. I'VE NEVER KNOWN THE ALAMO WITHOUT THE SYNTA RIGHT THERE. YOU KNOW, UH, YES, THE LIGHTING AND EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE BEAUTIFUL, BUT WHERE THE DEFENDER'S BLED AND DIED IS MORE IMPORTANT. THAT'S WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN 1936 DECIDED TO PLACE THIS SYNTA WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE FIGHTING TOOK PLACE AND WHERE THEY BLED AND DIED. IT'S LIKE AN EMPTY TOMB OF THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER OR A WAR MEMORIAL TO STAND FOR THEM. AND YES, IT'S BEEN DECIDED, BUT NOT ALL TEXANS HAVE GOT TO DECIDE. WE DID A POLL AND THEY'RE AGAINST MOVING THIS SYNTA. AND WHAT I AM CONCERNED, WOULD YOU PUT MY, UM, PICTURE? THIS IS THE, UH, DEEDED AND IT LOOK AT NUMBER FOUR THERE IS, IT SAYS THAT THIS PROPERTY SHALL NOT, SHALL NOT BE USED FOR ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN WHAT IT WAS INTENDED. THEY CAN'T USE THAT PROPERTY WHERE THEY'RE GONNA, WHERE THE SYNTA NOW SITS FOR ANYTHING ELSE. IF THEY MOVE THAT SYNTA AND NOW GO TO THE ONE AND WHAT ARE THEY GONNA DO WITH THIS LADY LIBERTY, THIS BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF ART THAT WEIGHS 40,000 POUNDS. THEY HAD, THEY HAD THE FORM READY TO PUT IT UP AND HOISTED IT UP THERE. BUT IF WE DO NOT HAVE A LOCATION WITH THE FARMS READY, WHAT ARE THEY GONNA DO WITH THIS LADY LIBERTY WHEN THEY TAKE HER DOWN? THAT'S 10 FEET TALL AND THAT'S 40,000 POUNDS OF MARBLE, 15 SECONDS. AND I'M JUST ASKING THAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY HAVE THREE LOCATIONS, THEY'RE NOT READY FOR THE SENATE HALF TO BE MOVED, AND WE ARE NOT READY IN TEXAS FOR IT TO BE MOVED BECAUSE THANK YOU. I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. LEE SPENCER WHITE, FOLLOWED BY DR. ALMA ARRADONDO LYNCH. I'M LEE SPENCER WHITE, REPRESENTING THE ALAMO DEFENDER DESCENDANTS ASSOCIATION. I'VE PASSED OUT THE FIRST PAGE OF OUR LAWSUIT THAT CLEARLY SHOWS [00:30:01] THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS NAMED AS ONE OF THE DEFENDANTS IN THE LAWSUIT DEALING WITH THE ALAMO CEMETERY AND THE CATH. LAST MEETING I NOTICED THE ALAMO DESIGNERS FAILED TO GIVE DETAILS CONCERNING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROPOSED CITA SUPERSTRUCTURE. WHERE ARE THE SOIL SAMPLE STUDIES? WHAT WILL BE THE DEPTH OF THE FOUNDATION FOOTINGS? THE CURRENT SYNTA HAS 22 FOOT DEEP FOOTINGS. WHAT SEEMS GLARINGLY APPARENT IS THE LACK OF AN ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY AND SURVEY OF THE PROPOSED SITE. WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY ENCOUNTER BONES? HOW CAN THERE BE A VOTE TO DISASSEMBLE THE SYNTA WITHOUT ABSOLUTELY KNOWING THE EXACT SITE OF THE NEW SUPERSTRUCTURE? AND CAN THE SITE ACCOMMODATE IT? I SAY SEND THE DESIGNERS BACK TO THE DRAWING TABLE. SEEMS PRUDENT TO ASK THE DESIGNERS TO DO THE FOLLOWING ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY TO DETERMINE THE CEMETERY LOCATION SOIL SAMPLES TO THE DEPTH OF THE DEEPEST FOOTING OF THE STRUCTURE. DETERMINE THE LOCATION OF UTILITIES AND CAN THEY BE MOVED IF NECESSARY. FRANKLY, I'M WEARY OF THE ALAMO PLAN DESIGNER'S VAGUE ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AND SAYING TO BE DETERMINED. THE ALAMO PLAN NEEDS TO ANSWER QUESTIONS WITH RESEARCH AND FACTS INSTEAD OF PRETTY PICTURES. COMMISSIONERS, I'M ASKING YOU TO DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE AND TABLE THIS MOTION, OR AT THE VERY LEAST, TAKE THE CTA OUT OF IT. 10 SECONDS. UPDATE THE GENERAL LAND OFFICE ATTORNEY. MR. MUNGIA HAS AGREED TO A RULE 11 AND HE HAS AGREED THAT HE WOULD NOT MOVE THE CTA UNTIL AFTER OUR LAWSUIT HEARING ON JANUARY 21ST. THANK YOU, DR. ALMA ARRADONDO LYNCH, FOLLOWED BY MARO GARZA LYNCH, DO YOU MIND IF I SPEAK TO YOU ALL IN SPANISH OR WE HAVE A TRANSLATOR WHO CAN STARTED IN SPANISH? I CAN, I CAN DO IT EITHER WAY. OKAY. AND YOUR TIME WILL BE UPDATED TO FOUR MINUTES. I'LL SPEAK IN ENGLISH. MY NAME IS DR. DR AMMAR LYNCH. AND I'M HERE BECAUSE I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE MOVING OF THE SYNTA AND READING HOW THE NUMBER OF DEGREES THAT YOU WANNA MOVE, THE SYNTA, YOU MOVE IT AT 180 DEGREES, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE HEROES FACING MEXICO. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD WE WANT OUR STATUES FACING MEXICO OR EVEN THE MEXICAN ARCH OUT THERE? I THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE FACING THE ALAMO ITSELF. I'M CONCERNED BECAUSE I SEE MANY OF YOU, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW THE HISTORY OF THIS. I RESENT THE FACT THAT MANY OF US DIDN'T GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT DOWN AND HEAR THE DISCUSSIONS THAT YOU ALL WERE HAVING. WE DIDN'T HAVE A VOICE IN THIS, AND IT SEEMED LIKE IT MOVED PRETTY FAST WITH US NOT BEING PRESENT. I'M AN AMERICAN OF RICH MEXICAN HERITAGE AND I HAVE ANCESTORS I KNOW THAT FOUGHT IN THIS ON BOTH SIDES. AND I DON'T WANT IT MOVED TO ME. IT IS SACRED. AND WHEN YOU ALL DON'T HAVE ANY SENSE OF OWNERSHIP, IT'S EASY TO JUST OVERRIDE ANY OF OUR IDEAS, ANY OF OUR FEELINGS, AND WHAT WE STAND FOR. THANK YOU. BORROW GARZA, FOLLOWED BY CHARISMA VIAL. GOOD AFTERNOON FRIENDS AND FELLOW TEXANS. MY NAME IS MARO GARZA AND I'M CURRENTLY WORKING TO DEFEAT JOAQUIN CASTRO TO BE YOUR NEXT US CONGRESSMAN IN HOUSE DISTRICT. 2032 YEARS AGO, MAYOR CISNEROS ASSURED THAT THE SENATE TAF WOULD NOT BE MOVED FOR CASUAL SUGGESTION. ACROSS THE NATION, WE'RE SEEING MONUMENTS, MEMORIAL'S, DEMEAN, DAMAGED AND DESTROYED FOR ILLEGITIMATE REASONS. THERE'S NO ILLEGITIMATE REASON TO MOVE THE CTAF EVEN ONE INCH. ITS CURRENT LOCATION HIGHLIGHTS ITS IMPORTANCE. THE INSCRIPTION IN THE CT READS, THEY CHOSE NEVER TO SURRENDER NOR RETREAT. LIKE THESE TEXAS HEROES, WE MUST NEVER SURRENDER OR RETREAT. REMEMBER, THE ALAMO ISN'T JUST A BATTLE CRY, IT'S NOT A SLOGAN, IT'S NOT A CATCHPHRASE, IT'S A MANDATE. REMEMBER, THE ALAMO IS A MANDATE. WE MUST HONOR THAT MANDATE TODAY AND IN THE FUTURE. THE ALAMO OF THESE HEROES AND THIS SENATE TAP, WHICH PRESERVES OUR MEMORY, MUST REMAIN IN OUR HEARTS, IN OUR HISTORY BOOKS, AND ON THIS PIECE OF LAND EXACTLY AS IT SITS TODAY. NEVER SURRENDER, NEVER RETREAT, NOT ONE INCH. [00:35:01] WHERE IS MERRI NUREMBERG? WHERE IS JOAQUIN CASTRO? THEY WORK FOR US, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. MY NAME IS MARO GARZA. PLEASE JOIN ME. CHARISMA AL, FOLLOWED BY CINDY GASKELL. HELLO, UH, MY NAME IS CHARISMA AL. I'M A SEVENTH GENERATION TEXAN, NATIVE TEXAN. UM, I ALSO HAVE DESCENDANTS. UM, I'M A DESCENDANT OF CANARY ISLANDERS AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, UH, MOST NOTABLY, UH, RIO ESPARZA, A ALAMO DEFENDER. UM, HE WAS THE ONLY ONE BURIED AT THE ALAMO. UH, HIS BROTHER WHO FOUGHT ON THE MEXICAN SIDE, UH, ASKED SANTA ANA FOR HIS BODY AND HE WAS BURIED IN CAMPO SANTO. NOW THERE ARE THREE CEMETERIES. WE DON'T KNOW WHERE HE IS. AND APPARENTLY THE UM, COMMITTEE DOESN'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GONNA PUT THE SENATE HOUSE. WHAT IF THEY DE WHAT IF THEY PUT WHAT IF THEY FIND BODIES, UM, WHERE THEY WANT TO PUT THE SENATE HOUSE? THEY HAVE THREE PLACES AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T PICKED IT. UM, YOU KNOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE, UM, THE FACT THAT THE CITY AND THE STATE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING SINCE THE 1930S ABOUT THE LOCATION OF THE CTA. THE CITY DIDN'T WANT THEIR BANDSTAND TAKEN DOWN, SO THAT'S WHY THEY PUT THE CTA ON THE NORTH PART OF THE PLAZA. THIS ARTICLE IN THE, UH, EXPRESS NEWS, IT TALKS ABOUT THE COMMISSION SIGNED AN AGREEMENT WITH THE BOARD OF CONTROL FORMALLY APPROVING THE CHANGE, AND THE MEMBERS LEFT. THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS JUBILANT OVER THE FACT THAT THE BANDSTAND ON THE SOUTH PARK WOULD REMAIN STANDING. THEY'VE ALREADY HAD THIS DECISION. AND YOU TALK ABOUT APPROPRIATENESS. POMPEO CUPINI HAD A, HAD A VISION FOR EACH SIDE OF THE CTA. THERE'S A REASON THOSE PE AND I READ THAT TO YOU, TO YOU, UH, LAST, LAST TIME WE WERE HERE. A LOT HAS HAPPENED SINCE DECEMBER 4TH. UH, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THINGS HAVE HAPPENED WITH GEORGE P. BUSH. 15 SECONDS WE'VE BEEN BULLIED. WE'VE BEEN CALLED LIARS. WE'VE BEEN CALLED RACIST BECAUSE WE FEEL THAT THE CTA SHOULDN'T BE MOVED OFF THE ALAMO BATTLEGROUND. THAT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE. THE CTA NEEDS TO STAY ON THE ALAMO FOOTPRINT. THANK YOU. CINDY GASKELL, FOLLOWED BY BRANDON BURKHART. UM, MY SON IS YIELDING HIS TIME TO ME. COLE GASKELL. UM, I THINK YOU ALL HAVE A PACKET AND I ALSO EMAILED IT TO YOU. HELLO? I NEED TO COME SIGN IN. I'M SORRY. HE DID SIGN IN. HE'S ON THE THIRD PAGE. I THINK SECOND OR THIRD PAGE. HE DIDN'T, WASN'T RIGHT NEXT TO ME. OLD GASKELL, THE TOP OF THE SECOND PAGE, I BELIEVE. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. HELLO AGAIN. MY NAME IS CINDY GASKELL. I TRAVELED HERE TODAY FROM THE WOODLANDS, TEXAS. YOU SHOULD HAVE THE PACKET OF RESEARCH THAT I HAVE PREPARED FOR YOU. I WANNA LET IT BE KNOWN THAT I REPRESENT MYSELF AND MY IMMEDIATE FAMILY WHO ALL AGREE THE SENATE SHOULD NOT BE RELOCATED OFF THE ALAMO BATTLEGROUND. I DO NOT REPRESENT ANY ORGANIZATION AND THE WORDS I SPEAK HERE TODAY ARE MY OWN OPINIONS, WHICH ARE BASED ON A GREAT DEAL OF HISTORICAL RESEARCH. YOU'RE DETERMINING FINAL POSITION TODAY. SO MY COMMENTS ARE RELEVANT. I REALIZE YOU AS THE H D R C BOARD ARE UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM POLITICIAN PAID CONSULTANTS AND CONTRACTORS WHO DESPERATELY WANT YOU TO GRANT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR PHASE ONE OF THE ALAMO PLAN. AS YOU KNOW, ALL OTHER PLANS DISCUSSED ARE CONCEPTUAL AND NOT BINDING UNTIL YOU GRANT THE CERTIFICATE. YOU ALL HAVE THE POWER TO DECIDE WHETHER MONEY OR HISTORY WILL TAKE PRECEDENTS PRECEDENCE OVER THE FUTURE OF ALAMO PLAZA. IT'S BEEN REPORTED THAT THE ALAMO C E O IS ALLEGEDLY PAID UPWARDS OF $300,000 PER YEAR FOR HIS WORK. WELL PAID. ALAMO CONSULTANTS AND POLITICIANS WILL SAY JUST ABOUT ANYTHING TO GET YOU ALL TO GRANT THIS CERTIFICATE. AND THIS HAS PROVEN TRUE IN THE PAPERWORK AND MINIMAL RESEARCH THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU. SINCE DECEMBER 4TH, I'VE CONTINUED MY OWN RESEARCH, WHICH HAS BEEN UNPAID AND ON MY OWN TIME INTO THE DESIGN DETAILS OF THE SYNTA IN THE PAPERWORK PROVIDED TO THE H D R C IN THE OCTOBER, 2018 MEETING. THE PAID ALAMO PLAN CONSULTANTS EXPLAIN IT'S WELL DOCUMENTED THROUGH EIGHT THROUGH 1936. THE BANDSTAND LOCATION TO THE SOUTH OF THE HISTORIC MISSION SITE WAS THE ORIGINALLY SELECTED SITE FOR THE ALAMO DEFENDER'S MEMORIAL. THE PAID CONSULTANTS THEN STATE THERE IS LITTLE DOCUMENTATION OF WHY THE CHANGE IN LOCATION HAD OCCURRED. SERIOUSLY DID ALL THESE WELL-PAID CONSULTANTS DO ANY RESEARCH AT ALL? TWO WEEKS AGO I READ FROM COP'S AUTOBIOGRAPHY WHERE HE CLEARLY STATES HE INSISTED THE LOCATION OF THE SYNAP BE CHANGED FROM THE BANDSTAND TO THE BLOOD SOAKED SOIL WHERE THE ALAMO HEROES LOST THEIR LIVES. BOCO PINI WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTED THE CAF ON THE BATTLEGROUND FOOTPRINT. I SPENT SEVEN STRAIGHT HOURS AT THE BRISCOE CENTER FOR AMERICAN HISTORY AT UT AUSTIN LAST WEEK. AND ONE DAY I EASILY FOUND A GREAT DEAL OF DOCUMENTATION IN THE [00:40:01] COITO COLLECTION, WHICH TELLS THE STORY OF THE CAF IN DETAIL. THOUSANDS OF COP'S LETTERS HE RECEIVED AND SENT THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE ARE FOUND IN THIS COLLECTION. YOU HAVE COPIES IN THE RESEARCH I LEARNED CARLTON ADAMS, THE ARCHITECT FOR THE SYNTA, THE STATE BOARD OF CONTROL, THE SAN ANTONIO CITY ATTORNEY, THE SAN ANTONIO CITY COUNCIL AND MAYOR COBB, YOUR PREDECESSORS ALL PARTICIPATED AND WERE VERY PLEASED THAT COPINE WAS ABLE TO SECURE THE CHANGE IN LOCATION. FROM THE BANDSTAND TO THE BATTLE PR BATTLEFIELD FOOTPRINT CHAIRMAN TIER OF THE STATE BORDER CONTROL ROAD, WE ARE IN RECEIPT OF YOUR LETTER ADVISING OF YOUR SUCCESS IN SECURING EASEMENT IN A MORE DESIRABLE LOCATION FOR THE SYNAP, WE WISH TO THANK MR. COBB, THE MAYOR AND OTHERS WHO CONTRIBUTED TO OUR SUCCESS IN GETTING THIS LOCATION. THAT IS WHY THE CHANGE OCCURRED. THEY WANTED IT TO BE ON THE BATTLEFIELD. DON'T MOVE THE CTA OFF THE BLOOD SOAKED BATTLEFIELD. THE HISTORY IS VERY, VERY CLEAR. THE NEXT PART OF THE PHASE ONE PROPOSAL INVOLVES A REORIENTATION OF THE CAF SO THAT IT'S TURNED 180 DEGREES. KINI DID NOT START ITS DESIGN FOR THE CTA UNTIL HE HAD SECURED THE LOCATION ON THE BATTLEFIELD. THE ORIENTATION WAS PART OF HIS DESIGN AND HIS DESCRIPTION OF HIS DESIGN INTENT CAN BE FOUND IN A DETAILED INTERVIEW HE TRANSCRIBED FROM A 1940, UH, RADIO TALK SHOW. IT'S IN YOUR PACKET. I ALSO FOUND THIS TRANSCRIPT IN THE COPT COLLECTION AT THE UT LIBRARY. I'M 100% AGAINST A 180 DEGREE TWIST OF THE SYNTA. THE PAID ALAMO CONSULTANTS PROVIDED YOU AN OLD POSTCARD TO SHOW DESIGN INTENT. IS THAT IT? KINI DESCRIBES IN DETAIL HOW HE WANTED THE BACK PANEL TO FACE THE NORTH TO PAY TRIBUTE TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR THE FEDERAL FUNDING PROVIDED FOR THIS TEXAS CENTENNIAL. THE FRONT PANEL IS THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE. KINI WRITES THEIR SOUL ASCENDS INTO HEAVEN EMANATING FROM THEIR MANGLED BURNING FLESH. THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE GOES ON AND ON TO GLORIOUS IMMORTALITY AND IT SHALL CONTINUE TO FURNISH AN INSPIRATION, PATRIOTIC DEVOTION AND A SENSE OF GRATIFYING PRIDE TO THE PRESENT AND FUTURE GENERATIONS. CO KINI UNDERSTOOD THE IMMENSE SACRIFICE THE HEROES MADE FOR TEXAS. I DIDN'T GET A WARNING. THAT'S YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. IT WAS HARD TO HEAR. I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT. THANKS. BRANDON BURKHART FOLLOWED BY LAMAR HENRY. OKAY. HELLO, MY NAME IS BRANDON BURKHART. I'M PRESIDENT OF, THIS IS TEXAS FREEDOM FORCE. WE WORK ON THE PRESERVATION OF TEXAS HISTORY. GUYS, I WANTED TO UH, 0.11 THING OUT TO START THIS WHOLE THING OFF. LAST TIME AT THE DECEMBER 4TH H D R C MEETING, COMMISSIONER VASQUEZ SAID THAT THERE ARE GROUPS, DIFFERENT GROUPS FROM ALL OVER THE STATE OF TEXAS HERE WITH DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT EVERYTHING. BUT WE COME TOGETHER WITH ONE ONE, YOU KNOW, WE CONSOLIDATE UNDER ONE FACT AND THAT IS THAT THE SYNAP SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED FROM ITS LOCATION. GUYS, WE LIVE IN A DIVISIVE WORLD. BUT IF YOU'VE GOT HANNO, ANGLOS, AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHER RACES COMING TOGETHER UNDER ONE THING, WHY, WHY WOULD WE WANNA MOVE THE ALAMO SYNAP? THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS BRINGING US ALL TOGETHER AT THIS POINT. INSTEAD OF DIVIDING US NOW GUYS, WHERE THEY WANNA PLACE THIS. ALAMO SYNAP HAS ALREADY BEEN TOLD TO YOU GUYS THAT IT, IT WAS WHERE THE LAT TRAIN WAS, WHERE THE BATHROOM IS THAT WHAT OTHER WAY COULD YOU DISRESPECT THAT MONUMENT MORE BY STICKING IT OVER THERE IN THAT LOCATION? YOU GUYS, YOU GUYS HELPED US OUT BECAUSE YOU GUYS DID SOMETHING THAT NOBODY HAS DONE SINCE 2017. AND THAT IS YOU GUYS LISTENED TO US AT THE DECEMBER 4TH MEETING AND EVERYBODY IN HERE APPRECIATES THAT. YOU GUYS ARE OUR LAST LINE OF DEFENSE. YOU GUYS ARE, ARE OUR LAST LIFELINE TO BRING IT FORWARD TO YOU GUYS TO TELL YOU, PLEASE STOP THIS, LEAVE THE SENATE HALF WHERE IT IS. WE DON'T WANT IT FLIPPED. YOU KNOW, PAPINI DIDN'T WANT IT FLIPPED 180 DEGREES. NOBODY IN TEXAS REALLY DOES. AND THE PEOPLE THAT DO WANT THIS THING MOVED FROM ITS ACTUAL LOCATION ARE GETTING PAID ON THIS THING. 15, 15 SECONDS. THEY, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, WE'VE TRAVELED THE ENTIRE STATE OF TEXAS AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER TOLD US THAT. OH YEAH, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA. EVERYONE SAYS NOT ONE INCH, DON'T MOVE THE ALAMO SENATE ATTACK. THANK YOU LAMAR HENRY. FOLLOWED BY UM, PAUL YIELD. MR. HENRY RECEIVES FOUR MINUTES. JOANNE HENRY HAS YIELDED HER TIME. JOANNE, CAN I SEE YOUR HAND? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I'M LAMAR HENRY. I'M VICE PRESIDENT OF THE DISTRICT TEXAS FREEDOM FORCE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. UH, ONCE AGAIN, WE ARE HERE LIKE ON DECEMBER THE FOURTH TO SEE IF THIS COMMITTEE WILL STEP UP AND TAKE THE HIGH ROAD OR INSTEAD MARCH IN LEFT LOCKSTEP, WHICH ARE POINTERS IN THE CITY HALL. IT'S OBVIOUS IN PAST MEETINGS THAT [00:45:01] THERE ARE MEMBERS HERE WITH CHARACTER AND UNDERSTAND IMPORTANCE OF PRESERVING HISTORY. AND THEN THERE ARE SOME WHO ARE CITY HALL RUBBER STAMPERS TODAY. WHEN YOU VOTE THE PEOPLE OF SAN ANTONIO, WE'LL SEE WHICH OF THOSE EACH ONE OF YOU ARE. YOUR DECISION WILL BE BROADCAST ACROSS TEXAS AND THE COUNTRY AND THE VOTE BY EACH ONE OF YOU BE PUBLICLY KNOWN ACROSS THE INTERNET. YOU MIGHT THINK FROM LISTENING TO RHETORIC, MY SON WATCHING NEWSCAST, WHATEVER, THAT THIS FIGHT IS IMPORTANT ONLY TO DESCENDANTS OF THOSE WHO PERISHED IN THE BATTLE OF THE ALAMO OR TO DESCENDANTS OF NATIVE AMERICANS WHOSE ANCESTORS ARE LIKELY BURIED WITHIN THE ALAMO COMPLEX. BUT THIS IS WRONG. OUR ORGANIZATION, FOR INSTANCE, THIS IS TEXAS FREEDOM FORCE HAS BEEN IN THE FOREFRONT OF THIS FIGHT FOR YEARS. FOR INSTANCE, WHEN WE SPEAK, WE ARE SPEAKING FOR MANY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TEXANS WHO ARE DEFIANTLY OPPOSED TO THE REMOVAL OF THE SENATE TAB. WE SPEAK FOR THEM, WE ARE THEIR VOICE AND THEY ARE NOT HAPPY AT ALL ABOUT THIS. THESE MANY TEXANS HAVE JOBS, FAMILIES, RESPONSIBILITIES, CANNOT AFFORD TO SPEND TIME AT ALAMO. ADVISORY PROPAGANDA MEETINGS THAT SELECT PLACES IN THE STATE. WE KNOW WE WERE AT EVERY ONE OF THEM. OUR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS, OUR REVIEW MEETINGS FOR THAT MATTER. THIS IS OUR VOLUNTEER MISSION. THIS IS OUR JOB, THE FEDERAL LAWSUIT. BUT NATIVE AMERICANS YOU RECENTLY BECAME AWARE OF IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT AND SHOULD GIVE ALL OF YOU MORE REASON TO RECONSIDER THE RE REMOVAL OF THE CTA. IN ADDITION TO THE DISHONOR, THE REMOVING WILL DISPLAY TO THE FALLEN AND HEROES AND THEIR DESCENDANTS FOR WHICH THE EMPTY TOMB STANDS. IMMEMORIAL TO THE ALAMO AND CTA ARE THE PRIDE AND JOY OF TEXAS. THE BATTLE OF THE ALAMO AND WHAT IT REPRESENTS ARE KNOWN WORLD. ANY VISITORS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, AND THEY KNOW THIS STORY, THIS NARRATIVE VERY WELL. THEY TAKE PRIDE IN IT JUST LIKE MOST AMERICANS DO. BUT WHERE IS THIS PRIDE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, IN THE CITY COUNCIL THAT ENDLESSLY VOTES AGAINST THE WISHES AND NEEDS OF CITIZENS IN THE CITY, YET WASTE THEIR TAXPAYERS MONEY ON TAXPAYERS MONEY ON FRIVOLOUS BUT EXPENSIVE PROJECTS AGENDA. AND THIS $450 MILLION ONE IS A REAL DOOZY. THE LARGE QUESTION, THE MAIN QUESTION TEXAS AND VISITORS WANT AN ANSWER TO IS WHY, WHY IN THE FIRST PLACE DO WE HAVE A CORPORATE LAND GRAB INSTITUTED BY GLOBALISTS AND SOCIALISTS? YOU SHOULD BE ASKING YOURSELF THE SAME QUESTION. WELL, WE CAN SEE THAT THE FIRST IS BASED ON GREED AND THE SECOND ONE SEEKS TO REWRITE HISTORY IN ALL OF THESE MONOTONOUS PRESENTATIONS WE AND A FEW OTHER TEXANS SUFFERED THROUGH FOR MONTHS. NEVER WAS THIS QUESTION ANSWERED. AND THEY NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE DEFENDERS OF THE ALAMO. ALL THEY TALK ABOUT IS PAVEMENT AND PARK BENCHES WHILE 15 SECONDS. THEY'RE OKAY WHILE STUFF FULL OF KEYWORDS LIKE REVERENCE, HONOR, AND LAME REASONS FOR THIS SENATE TOUGH TO ANY OTHER LOCATION. THEY NEVER ANSWERED THAT QUESTION. THEY BASICALLY JUST TOLD PEOPLE THAT THEY WANTED TO DO IT AND IT'S OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY VOTERS NEVER HAD A SAY ON THIS AND THEY DON'T WANT IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. PAUL GE PAUL GEIL, FOLLOWED BY TOM JACKSON. MR. GEEL WILL RECEIVE SIX MINUTES. UM, CHERYL GEIL AND ALAN G HAVE YIELDED THEIR TIME. THANK YOU. GOOD TO GO. THANK Y'ALL AGAIN FOR BEING HERE, ALL OF YOU THIS TIME IT LOOKS LIKE. UM, AND ALSO I NOTICED THAT WE'VE GOT SOME NEW FRIENDS HERE, PEOPLE THAT WEREN'T HERE AT THE LAST ROUND. THERE'S ALSO SOME PEOPLE HERE TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS. AND UH, THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T ABLE TO MAKE THIS SECOND MEETING 'CAUSE IT WAS AT ONE O'CLOCK AND NOT THREE STILL ON THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK WEDNESDAY. SO I DO WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THOSE WHO'VE SPOKEN OUT PRIOR TO. I'M PRETTY SURE THE PEOPLE WHO SPOKE OUT AGAINST THIS THE LAST ROUND, THEIR STATEMENTS STILL STAND. AND OF COURSE THERE'S SOME HERE THAT ARE HERE TO REITERATE HOW THEY FEEL. I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT ABBREVIATIONS ON THE PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED TODAY, ESPECIALLY SINCE THERE'S MORE PEOPLE YOU WOULD THINK YOU WOULD GIVE MORE DETAIL ON WHAT IS PLANNED RATHER THAN ABBREVIATING IT AND GIVING OUT LESS DETAILS. I THINK THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST CONCERN, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE THESE ISSUES, YOU WOULD GIVE OUT MORE DETAILS TO PRESENT [00:50:01] YOUR CASE RATHER THAN REDACTING IT AND SHORTENING IT ALL FOR THE SAKE OF TIME. UH, I WOULD LIKE TO AGREE WITH LEE. THESE ARE VAGUE ANSWERS. THEY'RE ALWAYS VAGUE. IT'S, IT'S NEVER, IT'S NEVER GREAT DETAIL. THERE'S NEVER A, UH, A CERTAIN PLACE WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO. THREE LOCATIONS, YOU KNOW, TURN IT AROUND, DISRESPECT THE ARTIST AND HOW HE MEANT IT TO SIT. WE HAVE NO, UH, NO REAL CONCERN AS TO, YOU KNOW, THE REAL MEANING BEHIND THE SYNTA. WE'RE JUST GONNA GIVE YOU THE PRETTY PICTURES AND WE'RE GONNA GET IT DONE AND GET IT REMOVED AND WE'LL THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING LATER DOWN THE ROAD. UH, THE BANDSTAND. WHERE'S THE BANDSTAND GONNA GO AFTER IT'S MOVED? THAT'S NEVER REALLY BEEN PRESENTED. AND YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER A CONVERSATION WHERE NO ONE REALLY CARED ABOUT THE BANDSTAND AND NOW SUDDENLY WE BEING TOLD IT'S MOVE TO A SECONDARY LOCATION. I'M GLAD IT'S GONNA GO SOMEWHERE. I JUST HOPE IT MAKES IT IN ITS MOVE. THIS PLAN WAS APPROVED IN 2018. YES, THIS IS ALL OLD NEWS AND WE'RE HERE TO APPROVE OF A PERMIT TO START DISASSEMBLY. UM, WE SHOULD RETHINK THAT. THAT PLAN WAS RAILROADED THROUGH RUBBER STAMPED, HOWEVER YOU WANNA SAY IT. IT WAS NOT REALLY CARED ABOUT TO THE AVERAGE PERSON. THE AVERAGE VOTER, THE AVERAGE TAXPAYER HERE IN SAN ANTONIO DIDN'T GET A SAY IN IT. AND MOST PEOPLE STILL TO THIS DAY HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW. THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. UH, EVERY DAY NEWS STATIONS COVER THIS SUBJECT. SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES COVERED THIS SUBJECT. AND MORE PEOPLE FIND OUT IN THEY'RE INCENSE, THEY'RE MAD AND THEY CAN'T BE HERE AT THESE MEETINGS THAT ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK. DIS THERE IS COMPLETE DIS DISREGARD OF THE DECISION WHERE IT SITS FROM THIS TEAM THERE. IF YOU HAD ANY PLANS FOR REVERENCE THAN YOU WOULD'VE CONSIDERED TO KEEP IT THERE FROM THE START, YOU WOULD'VE NEVER CONSIDERED MOVING. IT DISLODGING IT, REPAIRING IT IN PLACE. THERE WAS A DAMAGE ASSESSMENT DONE IN 2014 WHERE IT SAID YOU COULD FIX IT FOR THREE DIFFERENT EXPENDITURES, ALL OF WHICH RECOMMENDED AGAINST MOVING IT ENTIRELY. HOW DO WE FAST FORWARD FROM 2014 TO 2017 AND SUDDENLY EVERYTHING'S PEACHY, KEEN AND WE CAN JUST RELOCATE IT AND IT'LL BE FINE. I DO WANNA POINT OUT THAT SOME OF YOU ON THIS PANEL, NOT ALL OF YOU, BUT SOME OF YOU THAT WE'VE NOTICED, HAVE A COMPLETE DISDAINFUL LOOK UPON YOUR FACE. OR MAYBE YOU THINK IT'S FUNNY THAT SOME OF US, WHAT WE SAY BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY BEEN DECIDED AND I THINK IT'S COMPLETELY DISRESPECTFUL. AND I THINK HONESTLY, SOME OF YOU THAT DO THAT SHOULD BE RECONSIDERED AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU CONTINUE TO SERVE HERE. PEOPLE HAVE DRIVEN OUT OF STATE ACROSS THE STATE TO COME HERE FOR THIS ONE DAY. AND YOU SHOULD AT LEAST SHOW THEM A LITTLE BIT OF RESPECT AND GRATITUDE AND NOT BE SMILING, LAUGHING, OR EATING WHILE WE'RE SPEAKING. WE HAVEN'T EATEN ALL DAY AND WE PROBABLY WON'T UNTIL WE'RE DONE HERE. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DRIVE HOME IS THAT Y'ALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO STOP THIS. YOU CAN TABLE IT AGAIN AND WE CAN DO THIS MEETING AGAIN TWO WEEKS FROM NOW. WE CAN DO IT AFTER CHRISTMAS WHENEVER YOU WANNA DO. BUT IF YOU FORWARD IT THROUGH, YES, THERE WILL BE BACKLASH. THERE WILL BE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING AND IT'S INEVITABLE. I MEAN, RUMORS FLOATED AROUND FROM THE LAST MEETING AND NOW GEORGE P. BUSH SAYS THAT THERE WON'T BE A STATUE. I'M GREAT THAT AFTER TWO YEARS OF IT BEING A RUMOR, IT FINALLY GOT ADDRESSED. HOW MANY OTHER RUMORS DO WE HAVE TO COME UP HERE AND SCREAM ABOUT BEFORE THEY TOO GET ADDRESSED? WHAT ABOUT THE NATIVE AMERICANS THAT WERE FOUND IN BETWEEN THIS LAST MEETING AND THE NEXT? OR ARE THEY NATIVE AMERICANS? THERE'S THREE BODIES THAT HAVE BEEN FOUND. WE'RE GONNA KEEP FINDING BODIES. IF YOU KEEP DISLODGING THINGS, IF YOU KEEP DIGGING STUFF UP, AND I GUARANTEE YOU AN AREA IN THE PLAZA THAT HASN'T BEEN TOUCHED IN 80 YEARS WITH THREE COMPOST SANTOS THAT WE KNOW ABOUT ANNA FRANCISCAN OR SPANISH BURIAL GROUND AS WELL. WE WILL FIND BODIES, YOU WILL FIND THINGS DOWN THERE AND YOU WILL DISTURB MORE BURIAL GROUNDS. THERE IS NO NEED TO CONTINUE THIS PANIC. IT CAN IT GET RID OF IT. IT'S A SHAM. WE DON'T NEED IT. YOU CAN KEEP THE SYNTA IN PLACE AS PART OF THIS PLAN. AND HONESTLY, WITH ITS MOVEMENT BEING CONSIDERED SO, SO HARDLY, WHY DON'T YOU JUST GET A NEW PLAN THAT KEEPS IT IN PLACE? TELL THE PLANNERS, TELL THE DEVELOPERS TO RECONSIDER THIS WHOLE IDEA. MAKE IT MORE REVERENT IN A LEGITIMATE WAY BY HONORING THE DEFENDER'S MEMORIAL RIGHT WHERE IT SITS RATHER THAN FLIPPING IT AROUND AND DISREGARDING ITS MEANING, ITS PURPOSE, AND THE EFFORTS OF THE ARTIST WHO MADE IT. GIVE US MORE. GIVE US MORE. GIVE US MORE DETAILS. MAKE IT MORE TRANSPARENT. ISN'T THIS THE CITY WE DESERVE? DON'T WE DESERVE TRANSPARENCY? BUT INSTEAD WE HAVE TO SCREAM. ALL OF US HAVE TO SCREAM ABOUT CERTAIN RUMORS TO GET THEM ADDRESSED. AND ONLY ONCE THEY GO PUBLIC, WE DON'T EVER GET THE ANSWERS UP FRONT. INSTEAD, WE COME HERE TODAY AND WE GET LESS OF THE PLAN, LESS OF THE PLAN. YOU'RE GONNA CON CONDENSE IT LIKE WE'RE IDIOTS, LIKE WE'RE STUPID. AND YOU'RE GONNA GIVE US LESS DETAILS ON A VERY EGREGIOUS MOVEMENT OF A MONUMENT THAT WAS DEDICATED TO SIT RIGHT WHERE IT IS AND NEVER BE MOVED. THANK Y'ALL AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME. I WOULD LIKE TO YIELD MY TIME OVER TO THE NEXT PERSON. I DON'T CARE IF THEY'RE FOR IT, AGAINST IT. LET'S BE NICE AND GIVE THEM THE REST OF MY TIME. THANK YOU. UM, TOM JACKSON, FOLLOWED BY DAN CHANDLER. [00:55:04] TOM JACKSON. DAN CHANDLER. I'M HERE. OKAY? YES, PLEASE APPROACH THE PODIUM. I GOT RID OF THIS. DID YOU? OH, YOU GONNA STOP, SIR, PLEASE USE THE MICROPHONE. PROBABLY HEAR ME OUTSIDE MAYBE. I HOPE YOU CAN. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN HEAR ANYTHING. I'M AN EVANGELIST. GOD TOLD ME TO COME DOWN HERE. IF ANY OF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU DO OR NOT, BUT I TELL YOU WHAT, THE DEVIL'S NOT EVER SATISFIED. HE DON'T WANT JUST THIS. HE WANTS THE MOST ICONIC SYMBOL IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. THE ALAMO, THE VERY HEART, THE ESSENCE OF TEXAS. HE WANTS TO TEAR DOWN. THAT'S NOT ENOUGH. IF I, IF I MOVE TO MEXICO, HOW AM I GONNA LIVE THERE? WELL, HOW LONG UNTIL I'M KILLED? AND IF MEXICO MOVES HERE, HOW LONG UNTIL I'M KILLED? NONE OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE A FUTURE. ALL THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE ALAMO. THIS IS ABOUT LIFE AND DEATH. THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE BEING KILLED AND MURDERED. AND YOU WOULD BE THE MURDERERS, THE SPAGHETTI MONSTER DIDN'T GIVE TEXAS TO AMERICA. IT WASN'T THE MEXICANS. IT WASN'T THE INDIANS. GOD DID IT. MANIFEST DESTINY. AND I'M HERE TO SAY THIS, WE DEPEND UPON ALMIGHTY GOD TO KEEP THAT SANITA WHERE IT'S WE DON'T DEPEND UPON THEM. AND YOU BETTER PRAY TO ALMIGHTY GOD. EVERY ONE OF US BETTER PRAY BECAUSE HE CAN GET THIS DONE, NOT THEM. AND THIS MATTER ABOUT WHICH WE SPEAK IS YOUR LIFE AND DEATH. AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU GO TO HELL 15 SECONDS, AND ALSO YOUR CHILDREN AND YOUR GRANDCHILDREN. THESE DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE A FUTURE. NO FUTURE. YOU'LL BE KILLED. YOU'LL BE MURDERED. AND I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE COLORED. I I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE MEXICAN. I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE WHITE, SIR. THAT'S YOUR TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. DAN CHANDLER, FOLLOWED BY RAMON GARZA. DAN CHANDLER. I DAN CHANDLER. OKAY. WAS TOM JACKSON HERE? OKAY, WE'RE MOVING ON. RAMON GARZA. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME'S RAMON GARZA. TOO BAD THE PODIUM'S NOT CENTERED WHERE I THINK IT SHOULD BE. BUT ANYWAY, YOU ALREADY KNOW. IF Y'ALL REMEMBER I WAS HERE A FEW WEEKS AGO AND YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL AND, AND WHAT MANY PEOPLE OUT HERE FEEL. I'M A DIRECTOR OF, THIS IS TEXAS FREEDOM FORCE. AND AS YOU KNOW, WE ARE ABOUT PROTECTING EVERYTHING TEXAS. NOW I'M ONE PERSON HERE, BUT WE HAVE MANY FOLLOWERS AND MEMBERS ACROSS THE STATE OF TEXAS. AND THEY FEEL EXACTLY LIKE WE DO. I ASK THAT THIS COMMITTEE UP HERE, DO NOT APPROVE THAT THIS, THAT THE PERMIT FOR DESTRUCTION OF THE SENATE TAP IS, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. Y'ALL GONNA DESTROY IT. THERE'S NO WAY TO MOVE IT. THERE'S NO WAY TO TAKE IT APART. PUT IT BACK TOGETHER AND IT WILL NOT BE DESTROYED. THERE ARE REPORTS OUT THERE THAT STATE THAT, THAT IT'S, THERE'S NO WAY THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF IT. NOW, MANY TEXANS FEEL, IF Y'ALL WERE TO GO AHEAD AND APPROVE THE RESTORATION IN PLACE, THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE. THAT'D BE FINE. WE WOULD SUPPORT THAT. BUT TO, TO APPROVE THE IDEA, TO MOVE THAT SYNTA TO TURN IT, LIKE THESE PEOPLE, THESE OUTSIDERS ARE SAYING OR ASKING THAT THEY WANNA DO IS, IS AGAINST EVERYTHING TEXAS. NOBODY SHOULD APPROVE OF THAT PERMIT TO DESTROY THE TAF. NOBODY SHOULD APPROVE THAT IF YOUR HEART IS TEXAS. BECAUSE WE, WE HAVE MANY PEOPLE THAT SAY, HEY, SPEAK FOR US. 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE HERE FOR THEIR REASONS THAT THEY CAN'T COME BECAUSE OF WORK FAMILY. THEY'RE ACROSS THE STATE OF TEXAS. I WAS IN WEST TEXAS TALKING TO SOME FOLKS OUT THERE THAT I DO BUSINESS WITH. THEY'RE JUST DISGUSTED THAT SAN ANTONIO WAS ALLOWING THIS TO HAPPEN. WE CANNOT LET IT HAPPEN. AND I KNOW IT WASN'T Y'ALL EARLIER. WE WERE TOLD THAT IN 2018 THE PLAN WAS APPROVED. [01:00:01] IT WAS NOT APPROVED BY TEXAS. THANK YOU. LUPE GARZA RIVERA, FOLLOWED BY JOE MURPHY, LUPE GARZA, RIVERA JOE MURPHY. IT SAYS LUPE GARZA RIVERA. IF THERE'S A WRONG LAST NAME, WRONG MIDDLE NAME WAS PUT IN THERE. . GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME'S LUPE RIVERA. I RESIDE AT 1243 FLANDER AVENUE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. UH, THE ONLY THING THAT GETS ME HERE IS, UM, THE HISTORY PART, OF COURSE. AND I, I ATTENDED LANIER JUNIOR HIGH BACK WHEN IT WAS JUNIOR HIGH, SEVENTH GRADE. AND ONE OF THE SUBJECTS WAS TEXAS HISTORY. SO BY YOU ALL PERMITTING THIS PLAN TO GO ON, IT'S GONNA TURN ALL THOSE EDUCATORS INTO LIARS. 'CAUSE I HAVE BELIEVED THE TEXAS HISTORY THAT I LEARNED THERE AT LANIER, AND I'M SURE THE REST OF TEXAS DID AS WELL. I'M 69 YEARS OLD AND I BELIEVE THIS HISTORY, ALL THIS TIME, I'VE TAUGHT IT TO MY CHILDREN, TO MY GRANDCHILDREN, TO MY GREAT-GRANDCHILDREN. SO NOW I'M GONNA BE PROOF A LIAR BECAUSE OF THIS REIMAGINING REDEVELOPMENT, REWRITING HISTORY. AND MY QUESTION TO YOU ALL, DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE PART OF THE LIARS BY APPROVING, PERMITTING THIS PLAN TO GO ON? UM, I DON'T LIKE TO BE CALLED A LIAR. I CAN TELL YOU I'M THE MOST HONEST PERSON YOU'D EVER WANNA MEET. OF COURSE, YOU'D HAVE TO KNOW ME PERSONALLY. BUT I CAN TELL YOU MY INTEGRITY IS WHAT I HAVE, THAT'S MINE. AND FOR THIS HISTORY TO BE REWRITTEN, I'M GONNA BE TURNED INTO A LIAR ALONG WITH ALL THE EDUCATORS THAT EDUCATED ME. 15 SECONDS. SO OTHER THAN THAT, THERE'S NOT MUCH I CAN SAY OTHER THAN THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING. THANK YOU. JOE MURPHY. UH, FOLLOWED BY STEVE. UM, SORRY, O AGER. GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO COME HERE. MY NAME IS JOE MURPHY. I AM FROM FREDERICKSBURG, TEXAS. AND AFTER 73 YEARS OF GROWING UP A TEXAN. PROBABLY ONE OF THE LAST THINGS I COULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT ABOUT IS RE-IMAGINING THE ALAMO. THAT IS PROBABLY, UH, IT'S JUST INCONCEIVABLE AND I THINK IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE, AND YOU CAN TELL THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT AGREE WITH THAT. BUT I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. WHAT, WHAT KIND OF LEGACY IS THIS DECISION GOING TO MAKE? WE ARE SUFFERING A LOT IN OUR, IN OUR NATION NOW BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T DISRESPECT THE PAST. AND IF YOU TAKE THIS STEP, I WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT THIS. WHAT, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT TIME? WHAT ARE YOU GONNA, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA THINK WHEN YOU HEAR SOMEBODY? SAY WHAT? THE HISTORIC DESIGN AND REVIEW COMMITTEE OF HONOLULU, HAWAII HAS A PLAN TO REIMAGINE PEARL HARBOR AND THEY WANT TO MOVE TO U S S ARIZONA. THAT'S WHERE THIS IS HEADING. STEVE INGER. OKAY. FOLLOWED BY DON DIXON. HI, UM, MY NAME'S STEVE INGER. I AM AT 2 65 THORA. I'M JUSTICE. A CITIZEN, UM, SORRY FOR MY BROKEN GLASSES. UM, IN CASE LAW, A VERDICT IS MADE AND PRECEDENT IS ESTABLISHED. I BELIEVE SIMILAR RESPECT SHOULD BE SHOWN FOR THE HISTORICAL VALUE OF MAR MONUMENTS ERECTED BY OUR FOREFATHERS. I CAN'T REMEMBER A TIME NOT SEEING THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE WHERE IT IS. 17, UH, MONUMENTS AND 21 HISTORICAL MARKERS ARE IN, UH, THE CI UH, OUR [01:05:01] STATE CAPITAL BUILDING, UM, TO COMMEMORATE CERTAIN A, UM, UH, ASPECTS OF TEXAS IDENTITY. UH, IN 2005, SOMEONE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS AND WANTED IT MOVED. UH, THE COURT RULED THAT IT COULD STAY. SO, HISTORY AND THE RESPECT FOR OUR BELIEFS, THE BELIEFS OF OUR FOREFATHERS STAND IN SAN ANTONIO. THERE'S HERTFORD CLOCK, THIS, UH, SAR HOUSE, THE TWIN CYPRESS, UM, THE GRAVE OF THE, UH, PAT THE HORSE, UH, SAN ANTONIO, UH, RIVER LOCK OF DEB 141ST, UH, INFANTRY, UH, REGIMENT. HISTORICAL MARKER TO NAME A FEW. UH, WILL WE NOT MOVE THESE? UM, WHY SHOULD WE, UH, MOVE THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE ERECTED IN 1936 COM COMMEMORATING THE BATTLE OF THE ALAMO IN 1836, A HUNDRED YEARS AROUND, UM, 15 SECONDS. ALL OF THESE, UH, MAKE US WHO WE ARE TO MOVE. IT WOULD BE A DISRESPECT FOR THEM, DISRESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO, WHO BUILT THE MONUMENT AND DISRESPECT, UH, DISHONORING OURSELVES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DON DICKSON, FOLLOWED BY PASTOR SAM. MY NAME IS DAWN DIXON, AND I RESIDE AT 2 0 6 MORNINGSIDE DRIVE IN SAN ANTONIO. 7 8 2 0 9. LEMME TELL YOU WHERE I'M COMING FROM. MY WIFE WAS A DAUGHTER, REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, AND SHE VOLUNTEERED FOR THE ALAMO HELP RUNNING THE ALAMO FREE OF CHARGE FOR THE STATE OF TEXAS, THE PEOPLE OF TEXAS. SO THESE PEOPLE, THESE LADIES WHO RAN IT AND MANAGED IT FOR 105 YEARS, DEDICATED THEIR LIVES IN SERVING TEXAS, SERVING THE ALAMO, AND KEEPING THE ALAMO IN FRONT OF THE PEOPLE IN TERMS OF WHAT IT MEANT TO TEXAS. AND WHAT WE'VE BEEN UP AGAINST THE LAST FIVE OR SIX OR SEVEN YEARS IS CHANGING A LOT OF THIS. THE, YOU'RE IN A POSITION WHERE YOU CAN HELP THE PEOPLE NOT MAKE THESE CHANGES, WHICH ARE NOT GOOD FOR SAN ANTONIO. NOT GOOD FOR TEXAS. THE DAUGHTERS WERE VERY, VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH THEIR, THEIR APPROACH IN MANAGING THE ALAMO ALAMO PLAZA IN THE STREETS, WHICH THEY HAD CUSTODY OF. IN FACT, THEY, UM, THEY DID THIS IN, IN 1975. THEY, THEY LOOKED AT EVERYTHING THAT WAS THERE, AND THEY HIRED WITH THE MONEY THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GAVE THE CITY. THE DAUGHTERS HIRED JAMES KETER AND THEY REDID ALO PLAZA, AND THEY HAD SOME CRITERIA USE UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW OF ALAMO SHRINE FROM ALAMO STREET PLANT NATIVE OAK TREES ON ALAMO PLAZA. THEY PLANTED ABOUT 26 OR 27 TREES PROVIDE SEATING FOR ABOUT THREE 15 SECONDS, WHICH THEY DID PROVIDE FLAGSTAFF PAVERS FOR ALMO PLAZA, EAST STREET AND WALKWAYS. SO THE DESIGN STRENGTH COULD SUPPORT HEAVY PARADE FLOATS. SO WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW IS THAT YOU'RE MAKING CHANGES THAT ARE NOT GOOD. THERE'S, THAT'S TIME. THERE'S CEMETERY, IS THERE, THERE'S PROBLEMS WITH THESE LAWSUITS. SO WHAT YOU ALL NEED TO DO IS NOT MR. ADVANCE THIS PLAN, BUT DELAY IT. THANK YOU, SIR. PUT IT OFF. PASTOR SAM RECEIVES FOUR MINUTES. UM, JEN LOWE. CAN I SEE JEN'S HAND? IS THERE JEN LOWE THERE THAT DOUBT? I'LL UH, GO WITH TWO MINUTES. THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO READ FROM THE WORD, THIS IS NEHEMIAH. I'M PASTOR SAM GOSPEL GUNSLINGERS. I PUBLISHED PASTOR SAM'S LATIN AMERICA WAR REPORT AND MIGRANT INVASION NEWS. THIS IS NEHEMIAH TWO, THREE. WHY SHOULD NOT MY COUNTENANCE BE SAD WHEN THE CITY, THE PLACE OF MY FATHER'S SERS LATH WASTE? AMEN. AMEN. I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GEORGE P. BUSH, HIS INTENTION AND THESE CHANGES, A CHANGE WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN REFERRED TO AS A 180 DEGREE SHIFT OF TEXAS IDEALS, GOD AND COUNTRY, OUR FOREFATHERS, THE GOSPEL GUN SLINGERS, WHO STOOD UP AND FOUGHT FOR THEIR LIVES AND THEIR FAMILIES, AND ESTABLISHED THIS PLACE. AND I'D LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GENERAL SANTA ANA. CAN I GET A BOO FROM TEXAS? I SAID GENERAL SANTA ANA BOO. [01:10:02] I DON'T CONSIDER THIS A U S A VERSUS MEXICO ISSUE 'CAUSE I DON'T CONSIDER GENERAL SANTA ANA TO BE A MEXICAN. SINCE HE TOOK A COMMISSION AS CAPTAIN FROM THE SPANISH, A FOREIGN AND EXTRA HEMISPHERIC POWER TO FIGHT AGAINST MEXICO, HE FOUGHT TO DEPOSE THREE DIFFERENT MEXICAN PRESIDENTS AND HE OFFERED TO FIGHT TO DEPOSE BONITA JUAREZ, THE GREAT REFORMER OF MEXICO. I THINK THAT STINKS. AND IF YOU LOOK BACK IN THE HISTORY OF THE BUSH FAMILY, I THINK TEXAS HAD ABOUT ENOUGH OF THEM, THEIR FOREIGN WARS. THERE'S SHENANIGANS AND THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA RISE FROM THE GRAVE IN, IN, IN, UH, GEORGE PRESCOTT BUSH. YOU KNOW, HIS UNCLE DUB STAR WARS ALL OVER THE WORLD. SIR, AND DON'T FORGET, ADDRESS THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA. I'D LIKE TO TALK ABOUT GEORGE P BUSH'S MEETING WITH GOVERNOR CABE DE VACA. IT'S 15 SECONDS. IT'S ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED ON DAVE HODGES THE COMMON SENSE SHOW.COM. THERE IS AN ARMY BEING RAISED AND THE BUSHES ARE PUTTING THIS GOVERNOR UP TO CAUSE A CIVIL WAR IN MEXICO THAT'S GONNA SPILL OVER HERE. THAT'S TIME. THANK YOU, SIR. NOW WE'RE GONNA FORGET THEIR MEMORY AS GEORGE P. BUSH PLAYED THE RACE CARD. I SAY HE'S NOT BROWN, HE'S BLUE BLOODED AND YELLOW BELIED. NAOMI MILLER. NAOMI MILLER, SARAH HEENT. UM, CAN YOU CONFIRM THERE'S ALSO A JOHN HEENT WHO'S CROSSED OUT, BUT THEN IT SAYS SARAH IS YIELDING TIME TO HIM. WHO'S SPEAKING? DO YOU BOTH WANNA SPEAK? OKAY. OKAY, SO JOHN HEENT, PLEASE COME UP FOUR MINUTES AND HE'LL BE FOLLOWED BY ANGELA SMITH. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS, MY NAME IS JOHN HENNE, 80 YEARS OLD AND A SIX GENERATION NATIVE TEXAN. THAT INFORMATION PLUS $10. WE'LL BUY YOU A CUP OF STARBUCKS FINEST COFFEE. I'M FROM SAN ANTONIO AND REPRESENT ONLY MYSELF. I'VE BEEN A STUDENT OF ALAMO HISTORY FOR 65 PLUS YEARS, AND I'M HERE TODAY TO SUPPORT THE PLAN TO MOVE THE ALAMO SAN TO THE PROPOSED NEW LOCATION. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE 1836 ALAMO DEFENDERS, THERE IS NOTHING SACRED ABOUT THE CURRENT SITE OF THE ALAMO SENATOR. A 1931 PHOTOGRAPH CLEARLY REVEALS THIS SITE WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A FLOWER AND PLANT FILLED PARKING ESPANADE SITUATED BETWEEN ALAMO STREET EAST AND ALAMO STREET. IT WAS THE ONLY AVAILABLE SITE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE ALAMO WHERE THE TAF COULD BE PLACED WITHOUT COMPETING WITH OTHER BUILDINGS OR STRUCTURES. IN REALITY, THE ALAMO SYNTA WAS PLACED ON A SITE SELECTED BY DEFAULT DECISION, NOT A CAREFULLY STUDIED PLAN. DAVID CROCKETT WAS NOT EXECUTED ON THAT SPOT. AND THE LAST STAND OF THE AMO DEFENDERS DID NOT HAPPEN THERE. MOST OF THE DEFENDERS WERE KILLED DEFENDING THE WALLS ARE, WERE, ARE FIGHTING FOR INSIDE VARIOUS BUILDINGS. I AND MANY OTHERS HAVE CONTINUALLY ADVOCATED FOR THE RESTORATION OF THE 1836 BATTLEFIELD. LESS THAN 5% OF THOSE WALLS REMAIN, 100% OF THOSE WALLS CAN NEVER BE RECREATED. BUT THERE ARE PLACES WHERE THAT RESTORATION CAN HAPPEN IF THE SENATE HALF IS MOVED FROM ITS PRESENT LOCATION FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE 1836, THERE'S A REAL OPPORTUNITY TO RESTORE ALAMO PLAZA TO THE HISTORIC PLACE OF RESPECT IT DESERVES AND HAS NEVER BEEN. GIVEN THAT RARE MOMENT OF ALAMO HISTORY MUST NOT BE LOST. PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW YOUR VOTE TO BE SWAYED BY THE EMOTIONALLY DRIVEN ARGUMENTS OPPOSING MOVING AS ALAMO SENATE OR THE THREAT OF POSSIBLE LITIGATION. THERE ARE NUMEROUS PARTS OF THE ALAMO PLAZA PLAN I DO NOT SUPPORT. MOVING THE ALAMO SENATE IS NOT ONE OF 'EM. I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK BEFORE YOU TODAY. I REMAIN JOHN L HENNE GOD IN TEXAS. THANK YOU. ANGELA SMITH, FOLLOWED BY CORY HARRIS. [01:15:07] GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS ANGELA SMITH. I LIVE IN FREDERICKSBURG, TEXAS. I'M HERE REPRESENTING MYSELF AND THOSE IN MY CIRCLE OF INFLUENCE. UM, AND THOSE WHO CANNOT BE HERE. I I HAVE TO LAUGH AT WHAT THE GENTLEMAN JUST SAID. BECAUSE KINI WROTE, I WAS ANXIOUSLY AND PERSONALLY AWARE OF THE MEMORIAL TO THE HEROES OF THE ALAMO SHOULD STAND IN THE VERY SPOT WHERE HIS FAMOUS BATTLE WAS FOUGHT. I WAS VERY CAREFUL TO FIRST GET CONSENT OF ALL THE PROPERTY OWNERS. HE GOES ON TO SAY THAT IT IS AN HONOR TO SECURE THE SACRED OF ALL TEXAS LANDMARKS AND THE ABILITY TO RE-DEDICATE THAT BLOOD STAINED GROUND IN THE STRUGGLE FOR TEXAS INDEPENDENCE. TO THOSE WHO MADE THE SUPREME SACRIFICE, KNOWING OF NO HOPE OF IMMEDIATE VICTORY OR WANTING TO ESCAPE, BUT WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES ON THAT VERY SPOT, FIGHTING ITS GREAT HEROES IN ORDERS THAT TEXAS MAY BE BORN. NOW IT IS UP TO US TO MAKE A WORK THAT WILL REALLY HONOR THEM. IT REALLY DOES CONTRADICT THE LAST TESTIMONY. I COULDN'T EVEN SEE THE ALAMO ON THE EARLIER RENDITIONS BEST PRACTICES MAKE IT PREMATURE TO ISSUE A BUILDING PERMIT PRIOR TO THE UPCOMING LAWSUIT. AND THE FACT THAT A PROPER SITE HAS NOT BEEN DECIDED UPON. I WOULD SAY THAT THIS WILL BE CONSIDERED A HIGHLY SUSPECT AND I HAVE TO SAY IT WILL CALL YOUR INTEGRITY INTO QUESTION. I IMPLORE YOU NOT TO GRANT THE PERMIT NECESSARY TO BEGIN PHASE ONE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. CORY HARRIS, FOLLOWED BY SUSAN GREEN. HELLO, MY NAME IS CORY HARRIS. I AM A NATIVE TEXAN, AS ARE MY CHILDREN THAT WILL INHERIT A TEXAS WHOSE HISTORY THIS COMMISSION AND THE CITY'S LEADERSHIP IS ATTEMPTING TO MOLEST. I NOTICED SOMETHING MISSING FROM THOSE PHOTOS. IT APPEARS YOU FORGOT THE ALAMO THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO REMEMBER. THE ALAMO MOVING, MOVING THE CAF SHOULD NOT BE UP FOR DEBATE. THE CAF IS A SYMBOL HONORING THOSE THAT BLED AND DIED FOR WHAT WOULD LEAD TO OUR BEAUTIFUL TEXAS INDEPENDENCE, FREEDOMS, LIBERTIES THAT WE STILL LOVE AND ENJOY TODAY. WHAT THIS CITY IS ATTEMPTING AS AN ABOMINATION, THE RISK INVOLVED IN MOVING THIS SACRED MEMORIAL IS TOO GREAT TO ATTEMPT. IT SHOULD BE ABANDONED IMMEDIATELY. THE RISK, I'M SORRY. THERE IS A SAYING THAT SAYS, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. I FEAR THIS CITY WILL ATTEMPT TO FIX IT TILL IT IS BROKEN. WHAT THEN? I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO IMAGINE FOR A MOMENT THAT SOMEONE CAME ALONG AND WANTED TO MOVE THE GRAVE MARKER OF YOUR PARENTS OR GRANDPARENTS OR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS. PICK IT UP, TURN IT AROUND, FACE IT ANOTHER DIRECTION AND STICK IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. IT'S INAPPROPRIATE, IT'S DISRESPECTFUL. I DON'T SEE A DIFFERENCE. NEARLY EVERY COUNTRY HAS AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER FOUGHT TO ESTABLISH ITS BORDERS. THE DEFENDERS OF THE ALAMO DID JUST THAT. WHAT IS BEING ATTEMPTED HERE IS DISHONORABLE, DISRESPECTFUL AND DISGRACEFUL AND SHOULD BE ABANDONED. LEAVE IT ALONE. LEAVE IT ALONE. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO MOVE. THIS SACRED MEMORIAL AS A PET PROJECT IS UNJUST. I LOVE THE ALAMO, THE CTA IN MY STATE OF TEXAS, JUST THE WAY IT IS. I THINK YOU SHOULD TOO. IF YOU DON'T, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. ALRIGHT. THIS COMMISSION AND THE CITY'S LEADERSHIP NEEDS TO TAKE PAUSE AND RE SECONDS. THIS PROJECT DON'T MOVE THE CINO. THANK YOU TWO AND GREEN. UM, AS MORE PEOPLE ARE ENTERING THE ROOM, UM, I JUST WANNA MENTION TO THOSE THAT ARE NEW, THAT THERE IS AN OVERFLOW SPACE WHERE WE CAN HAVE A SEAT AND WATCH THE HEARING UNTIL THE NEXT ITEMS ARE UP. UM, WE CANNOT BLOCK THE DOUBLE DOORS. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. AS YOU LISTEN AND DELIBERATE TODAY, PLEASE CONSIDER CAREFULLY WHICH SIDE OF HISTORY YOU WILL CHOOSE. I ASK YOU TO BE CAUTIOUS AND EXERCISE YOUR AUTHORITY TO TABLE THE CITY'S REQUEST FOR THIS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS REQUIRED TO BEGIN PHASE ONE CONSTRUCTION. WAIT UNTIL AFTER RELEVANT COURT HEARINGS SCHEDULED IN JANUARY. AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO PENDING LAWSUITS WHICH DIRECTLY CHALLENGE THE ACTIONS BEING CONSIDERED TODAY. UH, ONE IS BY THE TOP POLANCO NATION IN FEDERAL COURT AND THE OTHER BY THE ALAMO DEFENDER'S DESCENDANTS ASSOCIATION AND STATE COURT. BOTH LAWSUITS NAMED THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION, GENERAL LAND OFFICE, ALAMO TRUST AND CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AS DEFENDANTS. AND THEY ASSERT THE ENTIRE ALAMO MISSION IS AN [01:20:01] UNVERIFIED CEMETERY FOR TEXAS HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE. SECTION 7 1 1 0 1 1 1 EVIDENCE INCLUDES THE BURIAL BOOK OF THE MISSION, SAN ANTONIO DI VALERO WITH OVER 1300 ENTRIES. ALSO PHYSICAL REMAINS OF ALAMO DEFENDERS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE MISSION COMPLEX SINCE THE 1850S. AND AS RECENTLY AS 1979 WHEN THE SEVERED HEAD OF AN ALAMO DEFENDER WAS DISCOVERED. MOST RECENTLY, YOU'VE SEEN THE HEADLINES IN THE NEWSPAPER, ALAMO PLAN CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES UNEARTHED HUMAN REMAINS IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT LOCATIONS AROUND THE SITE. THE DEFENDANTS DID NOT DISCLOSE THIS INFORMATION 15 SECONDS TILL A PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST WAS SUBMITTED TO THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION AND DO NOT MOVE THE SE CTA MOVING THE SENATE TAT RISK, IRREPARABLE DAMAGE AND VIOLATES TEXAS LAW. THE ALAMO PLAN PROJECT IS IF IT IS ALLOWED TO PROCEED TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE RIGHTFUL DESCENDANTS, THEIR ANCESTORS' GRAVE WILL BE, GRAVES WILL BE FORGOTTEN AND , THAT'S TIME. THIS ALL NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IN COURT BEFORE MORE MAJOR DEMOLITION AND CONSTRUCTION BEGINS. AND THAT'S THE TIME WILL YOU STAND ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY OR FALL ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY. THANK YOU. WE WILL NEVER FORGET. THANK YOU. KEN MERCER. KEN MERCER FOLLOWED BY RITA SCH, WHO'S THE TIMER? I'M KEN MERCER, THE TEXAS STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION AND FORMER TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE COMMITTEE OF HIGHER EDUCATION. I HAD THE HONOR OF CARRYING THIS LAST YEAR. THE, UH, NEW STANDARDS THAT MAKE SURE ALL TEXAS STUDENTS STUDY THE HEROIC DEFENDERS, THE ALAMO, AND READ THE, UH, HISTORIC, UH, VICTORY OR DEATH LETTER OF WILLIAM TRAVIS. I STAND BEFORE YOU ASK YOU YOU NOT TO MOVE OR DEFACE THE TAF. IT'S ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED. BUT ALSO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT ANOTHER ISSUE, WHICH WE, PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT ADDING, UH, AN HONOR TO THE OTHER, UH, FREEDOM FIGHTERS. UH, WHEN YOU FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, THERE IS NO OTHER SIDE. THERE'S ONLY ONE SIDE. I REMIND YOU THAT SANTA ANA, WHEN HE CAME TO OFFICE IN 1835, HE, WE HAD A CONSTITUTION, WHICH TEXAS WAS PART OF AS A MEXICAN STATE. 1824, HE DECLARED HIMSELF DICTATOR IN APPALLING OF THIS HEMISPHERE. HE TORE UP THE CONSTITUTION, WROTE HIS OWN S HIS OWN SEVEN LAWS. AND THEN HE HAD HIS ME, HIS MEXICAN MILITARY GO AND MARCH OUT THE, THE, UH, ELECTED NATIONAL CONGRESS IN EVERY STATE LEGISLATURE. THAT'S WHAT SANTA ANA WAS. WHEN HE CAME TO THE ALAMO. HE SAW THE FLAG WITH FOUR NUMBERS ON THERE, 1, 8, 8, 2, 4. THEY WERE MEXICAN CITIZENS. THEY WANTED TO RESTORE THAT CONSTITUTION THAT HE, THAT HE TORE UP WHEN HE DEFEATED THE ALAMO. HE DID, HE EXECUTED ALL SURVIVING CON COMBATANTS AND TO DENY A CHRISTIAN BURIAL TO THE DEFENDERS. HE ORDERED ALL BODIES STRIP LOOTED, STACKED AND BURNED. HE DID THE EXACT SAME THING. THREE WEEKS LATER, A PLACE CALLED GDD. AGAIN, ALL THE BODIES WERE LOOTED, STRIPPED, AND BURNED. HE AND HIS ARMY WERE NO HEROES ON THE OTHER SIDE. LET ME CONCLUDE REAL QUICK BY AGAIN SAYING THAT I ASK YOU NOT TO MOVE. 'CAUSE IF YOU MOVE, YOU WILL DEFACE SECONDS. AND LET ME CONCLUDE MY LAST THOUGHT THAT THERE'S A, WHEN I'VE SEE THE LEADERS THAT COME TO AUSTIN PROCLAIMING THAT SANTA ANA CAME TO FREE THE SLAVES. UH, THAT'S NOT TRUE. UH, DICTATORS AND TYRANTS DO NOT COME TO FREE. SLAVES, DICTATORS AND TYRANTS COME TO MAKE SLAVES. THANK YOU. RITA SHEMP, FOLLOWED BY MARIA TORRES. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M RITA SHEMP. I LIVE AT 800 GARRITY ROAD. OUR CITY LEADERS TELL US CONTEXT IS SO IMPORTANT. YET MUSEUMS ARE FULL OF DISPLACED RELICS THAT ARE FRUSTRATED OF THEIR ORIGINAL PURPOSE IN PLACE. OUR CONSERVATION SOCIETY KNEW BEST. THEIR EARLY MEMBERS INSISTED THAT LANDMARKS BE PRESERVED IN PLACE TO REFLECT THE NEIGHBORHOOD'S ORIGINAL CHARACTER. THE SYNTA WHERE IT STANDS IS THE CONTEXT FOR THE BLOOD SOAKED SOIL WHERE OUR DEFENDERS DIED. AND THE BURIALS ARE THE CONTEXT OF ALAMO PLAZA. THE MOST RECENT EDITION OF THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION'S MEDALLION MAGAZINE STATES THAT TEXAS LAW STRONGLY SUPPORTS THE INTERPRETATION OF CEMETERIES. [01:25:02] AND TCS. HISTORIC CEMETERY PRESERVATION COORDINATOR, JENNY MCWILLIAMS STATES PLAINLY PUT, ONCE A GRAVE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED IN A SITE, IT'S CONSIDERED A CEMETERY. AS SUCH, DEVELOPMENT IS NOT ALLOWED. RECORDS INDICATE BURIALS INSIDE AL THE ALAMO FOOTPRINT. THE SYNAP IS A HEADSTONE IN THIS CEMETERY, IT MARKS WHERE DEFENDERS DREW THEIR LAST BREATH. JUST AS ROADSIDE MEMORIALS SANCTIONED BY THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION DUE ONLY THAT SPOT OF LAND IN ALAMO PLAZA HAS A DEEDED. THE DEEDED STATES, IF THE SYNAP IS MOVED, THE LAND REVERTS TO THE STATE AND THE GENERAL LAND OFFICE WANTS IT BAD. THEY WANT IT AT ANY COST. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TRAVIS PARK MEMORIAL, YOU OWE IT TO THE CITIZENS YOU REPRESENT TO LEARN THE STORY, THE LACK OF DUE PROCESS, THE DAMAGE AND REAL TAXPAYER COSTS. I URGE YOU TO CONTACT ME. ME, THERE IS NO PLAN THAT I COULD SEE OF THE COST OF REMOVING THE SYNTA REPLACING IT. THE HOMEWORK HAS NOT BEEN DONE. 19,000 TEXANS HAVE SIGNED PETITIONS AGAINST THIS PLAN. PLEASE DO NOT PASS PHASE ONE. THAT'S TIME MARIA TORRES. IS SOPHIA TORRES HERE AS WELL? YES. OKAY. WE ACTUALLY, THE CHE INDIA FIRST NATION LINE DESCENDANTS. WE ARE THE FOUNDERS WITH THE FIVE FAMILY FOUNDERS. WE ALREADY TALKED TO YOU ON THE FOR YOU'RE DISRESPECTING US. YOU KEEP DISRESPECTING US THAT WE ARE NOT THE FIRST NATION. THERE'S NO SUCH A THING LIKE THAT. OR YOU ARE OR ALWAYS TOLD US WITH. I ALREADY GIVE YOU THE CEASE AND DECEASED. PUT THIS ONE. THE WHOLE COMPOUND IS A CEMETERY. DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THOSE SIX JUDGES TYPOS. THEY HAVE TO DISRESPECT US FED, RECOGNIZE, GIMME A BREAK. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE FEDERAL RECOGNIZED. WE HAVE A LOT OF STANDING. THE LAWSUIT IS HERE. WE PUT THE AMICUS BRIEF AND FAVOR OF YOUR PETITION. DON'T FORGET THAT. AND YOU NOT NATION PLEASE USE THE MICROPHONE AND DON'T THREATEN ME. NICK KILLIAN, WHERE ARE YOU? SUCH A COW. PLEASE, PLEASE ADDRESS THE DON'T PLEASE ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. HERE'S THE CEASE AND DEIST. ANDM GIVING YOU CEASE AND DECEASED. AGAIN, THE PLAZA IS A BURIAL GROUND WITH AMERICAN TILE. LEAVE IT ALONE. YOU JUST SAY CREATE GEORGE P. BUSH WITH THE ALAMO TRUST IN AUGUST, SEPTEMBER, NOVEMBER MORE REMAINS, MORE BODIES. OCTOBER AND NOW DECEMBER WE SUBMIT AND WE WILL BE HEARD. AND DAVID WILL HURT US ON THE 29TH TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION THERE BEING SUED. HERE'S THE CERTIFICATE OF ABANDONED CEMETERY WITH THE NEXT KING IAN DESCENDANTS. WE HAVE ALL BLOOD QUANTUM. WE HAVE THE D N A. HERE'S MY DEAR MOTHER, CHE. SHE HAS APPROVED THROUGH THE NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC. THAT'S THE AUTHORITY AND D N A BLACK QUANTUM. WE INDIANS DON'T QUESTION US. WE ARE READY. SUBMIT ALL THE AFFIRMATION OF THE INDIAN TREATIES. WE ENTER A 70 40 TREATY AT THE SITE. SO THE POPE IN SPAIN WILL PROTECT OUR BURS, WILL PROTECT BIRDS, MARRIAGES, AND DEATHS. WE RUN OUTTA HERE MEXICO AND WE PROUD OF IT. THEY'RE OUTTA THE RULE OF LAW. AND YOU DON'T LIKE THE CHIEF AND COMMANDER OR PRESIDENT SPOKE ON THE 24TH OF OCTOBER AND THE UNITED NATIONS IN REFERENCE ALL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM SUMMIT INDICATE TO ANY NATION TO COME FORWARD AND PERSECUTE ANYBODY THAT DESTROYED RELICS RUINS SECRET GROUNDS. THE LETTER IS ALREADY WITH HIM. SO AGAIN, I ASK YOU, DO NOT APPROVE THIS PERMIT. WE ARE IN LITIGATION, DON'T YOU ARE HERE. ART MARTINEZ, COME AND CLEAR IT. I'M SUBMITTING ALSO THE PRAY FOR THE ALAMO DEFENDERS. WE SUPPORTING THE PETITION. I'M BEING IN THAT COURT. WE . WE NEVER WIN. WE PREVAIL, [01:30:01] WE PREVAIL FOR THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE AND DON'T THREAT. I'M TELLING JANIQUE KILLIAN, I WILL PUT CHARGES AGAINST YOU AS I WAS WALKING BECAUSE THESE WOMEN DON'T HAVE A SAY SO. I HAVE NEVER HEARD YOU SPEAK. WE WOMEN, WE PARK WITH CHAIR WOMEN. WE'RE STRONG WOMEN. WE HAVE A SAY SO WE HAVE RIFLES, WE HAD GUNS. OKAY. OKAY. THAT'S ENOUGH. AND WE HAD TO DO IT. SO AGAIN, SEIZING, CEASE, WE ARE IN LITIGATION. THAT'S YOUR TIME, MA'AM. THANK YOU. GEORGE HARCORT. GEORGE HARCORT, FOLLOWED BY FORREST BIAS. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS GEORGE HARCORT. I LIVE AT EIGHT 10 WILTSHIRE SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. I'M HERE TO SUPPORT THE MOVEMENT, WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED, BUT ALSO WHAT'S BEFORE YOU TODAY. I THINK THAT IT'LL HELP US MOVE FORWARD AND HAVE A BETTER ALAMO. THE BATTLEGROUND IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND FOR VISITORS NOW AS THEY LOOK ACROSS. THERE'S NOTHING THERE EXCEPT TREES AND A MARBLE SLAB. PUTTING THAT MARBLE SLAB AS A REVERED SYNTA AND A LOCATION WHICH IS BETTER FOR IT AND STILL CONNECTED TO THE ALAMO WILL BENEFIT T TEXANS AND OF COURSE SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. FORRES BAEZ POLL BY DARWIN BODECKER. HELLO, UH, MY NAME'S FORREST BAAS, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. I'M A DIRECT DESCENDANT OF ANDREW KENT, AN ALAMO DEFENDER. HE FOUGHT IN THE BATTLE OF GONZALEZ, WAS A JUDGE FOR TWO DELEGATES TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. ALSO FOUGHT IN THE SIEGE AND BATTLE OF BEAR. AND AS ONE OF THE IMMORTAL 32, HE ANSWERED TRAVIS'S FAMOUS LETTER AND REINFORCED THE ALAMO. HIS NAME IS THE FIRST ONE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE CAF. I WAS ORIGINALLY AGAINST MOVING THE CAF WHEN THE PLAN CALLED FOR IT TO BE PLACED AT MARKET STREET PARK. AT THAT LOCATION IT WOULD BE OUTTA SIGHT. PEOPLE WOULDN'T WALK THAT FAR TO SEE IT AFTER TOURING THE ALAMO AREA. AND IT WOULD BE RIPE FOR TAGGERS AND VANDALS. THE CURRENT LOCATION THE PLAN HAS IS MUCH BETTER AND THE RESTORATION AND LOCATION THERE WILL ENHANCE THE MEANING OF THE WHOLE PLAZA AND BATTLEFIELD. THIS FOUR YEAR PROCESS HAS CULMINATED WITH MUCH GIVE AND TAKE WITH THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE VOTING FOR IT IN AUGUST OF LAST YEAR. THE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE APPROVING IT IN SEPTEMBER OF LAST YEAR. YOUR COMMITTEE AND PLANNING APPROVING IT IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR. AND FINAL COUNCIL VOTE APPROVING IT IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR. ALSO, I HOPE YOUR CONSIDERATION IS TO APPROVE THIS PHASE ONE SO WE CAN GET THIS PROJECT TO TRULY HONOR THE ALAMO UNDERWAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE'RE MOVING ON. RICK BRISCOE, I'M SORRY. DARWIN BODECKER FOLLOWED BY RICK BRISCOE. IT'S ACTUALLY ECKER, BUT BODECKER IS OKAY. THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH. MY NAME'S DARWIN ECKER AND I LIVE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO AND I CAME DOWN HERE IN GOOD FAITH. UH, I'M EMBARRASSED TO SAY THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY MY FIRST TIME ATTENDING ONE OF THESE, UH, MEETINGS AS A TEXAN. I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THIS WAS GOING ON A LONG TIME AGO. AND AGAIN, I'M EMBARRASSED THAT I ONLY FOUND OUT AS OF TWO MONTHS AGO. AND, UH, I F I FOUND MYSELF THIS MORNING SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE I'D RATHER DO THAN BE DOWN HERE THIS MORNING WITH THE GREAT HOPE THAT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE INSTANCES WHERE YOU COME DOWN HERE AND ENOUGH PEOPLE SPEAK TO YOU AND IT SWAYS YOUR MIND. I WILL BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THOUGH, THAT THOSE DREAMS WERE SHATTERED THIS MORNING WHEN I WITNESSED Y'ALL THIS MORNING WITH TWO YOUNG LADIES. THE BUILDING PERMITS OR WHATEVER THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS MORNING MAKE LEGITIMATE, BRING UP LEGITIMATE CONCERNS ABOUT PLANS AND DEVELOPMENTS WHEN THE PEOPLE BACK HERE IN THE NICE SUITS WERE ALL FOREGOING AHEAD. THESE LADIES BROUGHT UP LEGITIMATE CONCERNS AS FAR AS A PERSON WOULD KNOW. I MEAN, I WAS JUST SITTING THERE LISTENING. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. I HEARD ONE PERSON SAY, OKAY, LET'S MOTION TO MAKE SOME MONEY. SOMEBODY SAID, I SECOND TO MAKE SOME MONEY. THEY SAID, ALL THE PEOPLE WANNA MAKE SOME MONEY, SAY, AYE. THERE [01:35:01] WAS A BUNCH OF A AND THAT WAS IT ON TWO DIFFERENT PLANS. SO IT BREAKS MY HEART KNOWING THAT I CAME DOWN HERE AND EVERYTHING THAT I WANTED TO SAY ABOUT THE SENATE, IT'S GONNA FALL ON DEAF EARS ANYWAYS BECAUSE I FOUND THAT Y'ALL ALREADY MADE Y'ALL'S MIND UP ALREADY. IT HAD ALREADY GONE THROUGH THE NECESSARY PROCESSES. 15 SECONDS. SO PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF THAT ARE ASHAMED TO KNOW THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING NOW FINALLY FIND OUT AND IT'S TOO LATE. AND NOTHING THAT I'VE SEEN HERE THIS MORNING GIVES ME HOPE THAT ANY ONE OF US ARE GONNA SWAY Y'ALL'S MIND ABOUT MAKING MONEY. BECAUSE THE ONLY REASON THAT THING MOVES IS FOR SOMEBODY TO MAKE SOME MONEY. PERIOD. THANK YOU RICK BRISCOE. RICK BRISCOE, FOLLOWED BY MARK G E. MY NAME IS RICK BRISCOE. 14 8 0 3 4 PAST SAN ANTONIO. MR. CHAIRMAN MEMBERS, I APPEAR IN OPPOSITION TO THE PLAN. ENTER THIS QUESTION FOR YOURSELF. WHY ARE YOU CONSIDERING THIS PROPOSAL? THE ANSWER IS STRIKINGLY SIMPLE. THE CITY AND THE G L O CANNOT PROCEED WITHOUT YOUR ASCENT. IT'S IN YOUR HANDS. IT HAS NOT BEEN DECIDED. NOTHING HAS BEEN DECIDED. THIS PLAN IS ILL CONSIDERED HALF BAKED PREMISED ON FALSE IDEAS AND DENIES PEOPLE ACCESS TO THE ALAMO. IN MANY WAYS. I HAVE PERSONALLY ESCORTED JOURNALISTS FROM GERMANY TO JAPAN AND IN BETWEEN TO THE ALAMO AND TWO OF ONE, THEY WERE ENTHRALLED WITH THE ALAMO LEGEND. THE IDEA THAT MEN STOOD AND FOUGHT TO THE DEATH RATHER THAN SURRENDER ARMS FOR LIBERTY IS SOMETHING THEY REVERE. THE ALAMO IS KNOWN AS ONE OF THE TWO GREAT LAST STANDS IN HISTORY. THE OTHER BEING THERMOP, WHERE KING LEONES TOLD THE PERSIANS, MO, COME AND TAKE THEM, COME AND TAKE THEIR ARMS. WELL MOVING THE CENO TOP. AND IT IS WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW TO CONSIDER THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE SUBSTANTIAL EXPENSES. AND FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT, THERE'S BEEN NO ADEQUATE STUDY OF THE CONDITION. THE CITY RECITES THAT IT'S IN POOR CONDITION. WELL, THAT'S BECAUSE THEY'VE NEGLECTED THEIR DUTY. THE CITY WAS SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN 15 SECONDS. THAT'S NOT A VALID REASON TO MOVE IT. NOW THERE ARE GOD BLESS LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS. THEY ALWAYS COME IN AND SHOW A LOT OF PLANS. THAT'S TIME THAT ARE INCOMPATIBLE WITH LOCAL NEEDS. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. TIME. THANK YOU. THIS SAYS MARK, LETTER G. IS THERE A LAST NAME CHANGE? OKAY, MARK G IS FOLLOWED BY, UM, DAVE HECKERT. I'M NEARS, SO I HAVE MY PHONE. YOU KNOW, MY NAME IS MARK G. MY ISSUE WITH THE ALMO MASTER PLAN IS REMOVAL OF THE SYN HALF AND DISTURBING NATIVE AMERICAN BARREL GRANT. THE COMPOUND REMAINS, THE THREE BODIES WERE DISCOVERED, A BABY AND AN ADULT DURING THANKSGIVING WEEK AND A TEENAGER DURING DECEMBER 3RD. BUT MEDIA OUTLETS COVERED HIS STORY UNTIL DECEMBER 13TH. HMM. ANYWHERE ELSE IN TEXAS, IF A CEMETERY IS ON EARTH, THEY CONTACT THE FAMILIES. THEY DO D N A TESTING. WHY AREN'T YOU GONNA DO THAT? THE ALAMO, PRESIDENT OF THE ALAMO DEFENDER'S DE DEFENSE, DEFENSE ASSOCIATION, LEE SPENCER, WHITE STATES AFTER BONE FRAGMENTS ARE UNEARTHED INSIDE THE ALAMO CHURCH AND LONG BARRACKS. IN OCTOBER, 2019, PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD RECOGNIZED THAT ALAMO'S SIGNIFICANCE LIKE FIRST LADY MELANIA, GOD BLESS HER IN HER CLOTHES WHEN A MINI ALAMO WAS PLACED NEAR A GINGERBREAD WHITE HOUSE CELEBRATING US LANDMARKS. WHAT CAN SHE OR THE WORLD RECOGNIZE WHEN THE MONUMENT DEDICATED TO THOSE FENDERS AND THE DEAD BURIED THERE? BE ENCROACHED UPON LIKE CHEAP REPLACING MUSIC PARTS RIDES. WHAT WOMAN MELANIA IN THE WORLD SAY ABOUT THE SECRECY, MISINFORMATION AND DISORGANIZATION SURROUNDING TEXAS'S MOST ICONIC BATTLE SITE? THIS IS NOT DISNEYLAND. THIS IS A SACRED BATTLEGROUND. MEN WERE SLAUGHTERED HERE. THEIR CORPSES BURNED THE SENATE HALF IS BUILT ON THAT BLOOD OF THE DEFENDERS AND A NATIVE AMERICAN BEAR GROUND SHOULD BE LEFT IN PEACE. CROCKETT TRAVIS ESPARZA AMONG THE 180 TO 250 MORE MEN, THOUGH THEIR NUMBERS WERE SMALL, KNEW THAT THE CAUSE FOR LIBERTY WAS WORTH FIGHTING FOR AND THEY DEFENDED THAT [01:40:01] CAUSE TO THE VERY END. AND NOW 183 YEARS LATER, IT IS TIME THAT WE DEFEND THEM. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DAVE HECKER, BROUGHT BY NATALIE NATHAN DAVE HECKERT, 1600 SOUTH LAKELINE BOULEVARD IN CEDAR PARK. JUST IN CASE ANYBODY'S COMING UP FOR LUNCH. UM, I'M HERE WITH A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. I'M NOT A NATIVE TEXAN. I ONLY GOT HERE IN 2012, BUT IN 1975 I DID GET A COPY OF TRAVIS'S LETTER WHEN I VISITED THE ALAMO. I'M HERE AS A VETERAN. I'VE LOST FRIENDS OR COLLEAGUES IN EGYPT, PAKISTAN, IRAQ, KUWAIT, AND AFGHANISTAN. AND I STILL CANNOT COMPREHEND HOW YOU'RE CONSIDERING MOVING A MEMORIAL ON TOP OF A CEMETERY WHERE MEN FOUGHT, LED, AND DIED. TO ME, THAT JUST DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. AS ONE GENTLEMAN ITERATED, UH, EARLY ON, EVERYBODY HERE, INCLUDING THE CITY GOVERNMENT, WORKS FOR THE CITIZENS. AND BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT HAD YET HAD A FULL VOICE IN THE SAY OF THIS ISSUE, I RE REQUEST RESPECTFULLY THAT YOU DELAY ANY DECISION ON GRANTING THE CERTIFICATE OR MOVING THE SANTA AF UNTIL AFTER THE LITIGATION IS COMPLETE. PLEASE DO THAT. TO HONOR THE TEXANS WHO DIED, HONOR THE TEXANS LIVING AND FUTURE GENERATIONS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. NATALIE NATHAN, FOLLOWED BY, UM, RUSTY MAYOR. GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO ALL OF US TODAY. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. MY NAME IS NATALIE NATHAN. I LIVE AT 2 3 2 2 5 EAGLE GAP HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. FOR THE PAST THREE AND A HALF YEARS, I'VE TRAVELED TO ABOUT 75 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRIKES, STRIKES ME MOST ABOUT THIS ISSUE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO IS THAT THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN IN ANY OTHER COUNTRY. IF I WERE IN EGYPT AND THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT MOVING THE PYRAMIDS FOR WHATEVER REASON, IT WOULD NOT, IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF I WERE IN PARIS AND SOMEONE WHO'S TALKING ABOUT THE EIFFEL TOWER AND WELL, IT'S JUST NOT IN A GOOD LOCATION. OR WE, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SET SOME THINGS UP THERE TO MAKE IT MORE PROFITABLE. DO YOU THINK ANY OF THE PARISIANS WOULD VOTE FOR THAT? NO. A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE WORLD ARE DIVISIVE. BUT I WILL SAY ONE THING, WHEN I TELL PEOPLE THAT I'M FROM SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS, THEY, THEY KNOW WHERE THAT IS OTHER THAN SAYING THEY KNOW WHERE THE SPURS ARE, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY, REALLY FANTASTIC. THEY KNOW ABOUT THE RIVERWALK AND THEY KNOW ABOUT THE ALAMO. AND THE THING ABOUT THE ALAMO FOR THEM AS A GENTLEMAN BACK HERE, EXPLAINED IT'S PART OF WORLD HISTORY, NOT JUST TEXAS HISTORY OR SAN ANTONIO HISTORY. AND THAT'S THE THING THAT I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO REALLY REMEMBER THAT WE DON'T WANT IT, WE DON'T WANT TO, UM, IMPAIR OR CHANGE OR TAKE AWAY SOMETHING THAT IT'S A PART OF OUR HISTORY. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. RUSTY. MAY, MAY. OKAY. FOLLOW UP. FOLLOWED BY MICKEY KILLIAN. GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, RUSTY MAHAN, 6 41 BERRY VERDE, TEXAS. BEEN IN SAN ANTONIO AREA SINCE 65. SEVENTH GENERATION TEXAN HISTORY TEACHER. UM, YOU GUYS ARE TEXANS AND YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STAND UP AND BE TEXANS REGARDLESS OF WHAT'S BEEN VOTED ON IN THE PAST. YOU CAN DO WHAT THEY DID AT THE ALIMONY. YOU CAN SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, WE'RE STAYING HERE AND WE'RE GONNA DO WHAT'S RIGHT. THE UM, UM, TRUST IS A REAL ISSUE, GUYS. UM, THE CONFEDERATE MONUMENT IN TRAVIS PARK SAT THERE FOR 118 YEARS AND DID NOBODY HARM. UM, THE MEETINGS WERE CUT SHORT. WE WERE, WE WERE DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE A REASONABLE RESPONSE. WE WERE NOT GIVEN THIS KIND OF A CHANCE TO STAND UP AND SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, LET'S HAVE AN HONEST LOOK AT THIS. WE WERE PROMISED MEETINGS. ROBERT ROBERTO TREVINO GAVE ME PERSONALLY TWICE THAT HE WOULD GUARANTEE THAT I WOULD BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH HIM AND HIS STAFF AND WHAT WOULD BE DONE HONORABLY WITH OUR CONFEDERATE MONUMENT. INSTEAD IN, UH, THE DARKNESS OF KNIGHT, ALAMO CRANE CAME IN DISGUISED FORUM, LIFTED THE MONUMENT UP, BROKE THE RIFLE, PUT A HOLE IN THE SHAFT, JACK HAMMERED THE ARTIFACTS BOX, LEFT IT OUT TO GET RAINED ON. AND WE'RE [01:45:01] GONNA TRUST OUR CITY LEADERS TO DO RIGHT WITH THE ALAMO CINO PATH. THE MOST, THE MOST SACRED PIECE OF TEXAS HISTORY. I'M A TEXAS HISTORY TEACHER. GUYS, THIS IS WRONG. NOW IT'S DISINGENUOUS. IF YOU'RE GONNA MOVE IT, IT'S DISINGENUOUS TO SAY WE'RE GONNA TAKE OUT THE MONUMENT TO CREATE A BETTER BATTLEFIELD AND PUT PARK BENCHES AND TREES IN SERIOUSLY. WHERE IS YOUR, WHERE IS THIS GOING? PARK BENCHES AND TREES. WE'RE GONNA TAKE OUT A MONUMENT OUT OF A BATTLEFIELD TO MAKE IT MORE LIKE 18 36, 15 SECONDS. BUT WE'RE GONNA PUT PARK BENCHES AND TREES IN, IF YOU WANNA DO THIS RIGHT, TAKE OUT THE ARCHED WALL ON THE RIGHT OF THE CHAPEL. BUILD THE SECOND STORY ON THE LONG BARRACKS, PUT THE PALISADES BACK UP, CLOSE DOWN ALAMO STREET, DOWN TO ONE LANE. MAKE IT A UNIFORM SURFACE SO THAT IT CAN BE SEEN AS A MORE UNIFIED AREA. THAT'S TIME. THANK YOU GUYS. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. UM, SO MICKEY KILLIAN, RAMON VASQUEZ. JOSE, UH, MARCIA AND JESUS ES HAVE ALL YIELDED TIME TO ART MARTINEZ. THAT'S TOO MANY PEOPLE. UM, SO TWO OF YOU CAN YIELD TIME TO ART MARTINEZ, AND THEN THE OTHERS CAN SPEAK. WHO'S YIELDING TIME? THE FIRST TWO IS FINE. THE FIRST TWO. OKAY. SO, UH, FOUR MINUTES. I'M SORRY. SIX MINUTES. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ART MARTINEZ AVADA. I LIVE AT 7 3 1 9 VON ARMY ROAD IN VON ARMY, TEXAS. UH, I'M THE ATTORNEY FOR THE TAPE, P L A M CALLED SECOND NATION, UH, THE SAN ANTONIO MISSION CEMETERY ASSOCIATION AND THE INDIVIDUAL LITIGANTS IN THE FEDERAL LAWSUIT AGAINST THE, UH, GENERAL LAND OFFICE, THE ALAMO TRUST, UH, THE CITY AND, UH, THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. UH, FOR CLARITY, UH, NO OTHER SPEAKER REPRESENTS THE TOP PILAM COAL NATION OR THE CEMETERY ASSOCIATION, UH, BEFORE YOU TODAY. UH, I WAS DESIGNATED TO BE THEIR REPRESENTATIVE. UH, THE ISSUES BEFORE THE FEDERAL CORRIDOR ARE NUMEROUS. UH, BUT I'LL NARROW MY COMMENTS TODAY. ADDRESS ONLY THE ISSUES BEFORE YOU. UH, SPECIFICALLY THE ISSUES OF REPOSITIONING THE SENATE TAF, THE STREET CLOSURES AND LANDSCAPING PROPOSALS. THE FIR THE FIRST ISSUE OF IMMEDIATE CONCERN IS THE FACT THAT THE ALAMO COMPLEX IS A CEMETERY, UH, DESPITE THE DENIALS OF THE G L O AND THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO CITY ATTORNEY, UH, WHO MADE THAT ABSURD PROPOSITION TO THIS TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION, OVER 1000 ENTRIES EXIST IN THE BARREL RECORDS OF MISSION VALERO AT ITS CURRENT LOCATION. AMONG THESE RECORDS IS A NOVEMBER 17TH, 1749 NOTATION OF THE BLESSING AND CONSECRATION OF A CATHOLIC CEMETERY ON THE SITE. AT PRESENT, THERE ARE FOUR KNOWN CEMETERY LOCATIONS ON THE SITE, ESTABLISHED BY ARCHIVAL, ARCHEOLOGICAL AND HISTORICAL EVIDENCE. THE FIRST IS NEAR AND UNDER THE FEDERAL BUILDING, WHERE OVER 30 BODIES WERE EXHUMED DURING ITS CONSTRUCTION, THEN ADJACENT TO THE LONG BARRACKS AND EXTENDING INTO THE PLAZA. UH, THE THIRD IS, UH, IS THE CURRENT CHAPEL AND EXTENDING OUT TO ITS COURTYARD. UH, THE REASON FOR THESE VARIOUS LOCATIONS, UH, IS THE USE OF TEMPORARY CHAPELS EARLY IN THE MISSION'S HISTORY. AND LASTLY, THERE'S AN AREA, AN UNKNOWN AREA OUTSIDE THE WALLS OF THE MISSION, WHICH WAS OBSERVED FOR THE UNBAPTIZED, UH, AND IS NOTED IN THE MISSION RECORDS. UH, IT'S MOST LIKELY SOUTH OF THE CHAPEL COURTYARD IN THE AREA NEAR WHERE THE SANITA RELOCATION IS BEING PROPOSED. ADDITIONAL BURIALS ARE KNOWN ON THE SIDE, INCLUDING NUMEROUS UNRECORDED, UH, BURIALS, UH, IN THE 1828 CHOLERA EPIDEMIC. OF COURSE, THE ALAMO DEFENDERS AND, AND OTHER REFERENCES WE FIND IN THE HISTORICAL RECORD. IN 2005, THE CEMETERY WAS RECORDED IN THE BEXAR COUNTY CEMETERY SURVEY AS CEMETERY ID. BX DASH C 2 99 CLEARLY EXISTS. IT APPEARS ON THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION HISTORIC SITES, UH, AS AN AR UH, ARCHEOLOGY ARCHEOLOGICAL SITE ATLAS WITH THE SAME CEMETERY ID NUMBER, UH, IN THERE IT'S DEFINED AS OCCUPYING THE TOTALITY OF THE CURRENT ALAMO PLAZA. UH, AND MEMBERS OF THE TOP PILAM COAL TECH NATION HAVE CONDUCTED TWO RE BURIALS THEMSELVES, ONE IN THE MISSION CHAPEL AND ANOTHER ADJACENT TO THE CROCKETT BUILDING. JUST TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THE CHILD, WHEN THE, UH, REMAINS OF AN INDIAN CHILD WERE DISCOVERED, UH, THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION, IF YOU COULD SWITCH, UH, EXHIBITS, UH, HAS RECENTLY DEFINED THE BOUNDARY OF THE MISSION CEMETERY IN ITS DECLARATION OF DEDICATION DATED JUNE 21ST, 2019, AND RECORDED IN THE REAL PROPERTY RECORDS OF BEXAR COUNTY, TEXAS. IF YOU'LL FLIP IT OVER, PLEASE, SIR. ON THE BACK, UH, YOU'LL SEE A MAP OF THE CEMETERY AND IT'S THE, UH, IT'S THE LINE BASICALLY ING UH, ALAMO STREET AND GOING ALONG THE BACK OF THE ALAMO CHAPEL, UH, CROSS, UH, CROCKETT STREET AND HOUSTON STREET. I'LL REMIND YOU THAT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO'S UNIFORM DEVELOPMENT CODE SECTION 35 6 3 4 UNDER CEMETERIES SAYS THAT THE HISTORICAL DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION SHALL [01:50:01] BE GOVERNED IN ITS RECOMMENDATIONS BY THE REGULATIONS SET FORTH IN TEXAS STATE LAW FOR CEMETERIES EXCLUDING BURIAL PERMITS. AND THIS IS NOT IN REFERENCE TO ANY KIND OF BURIAL PERMIT. AND TWO, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE DEVELOPMENT PROJECT MUST COMPLY WITH THE HEALTH, TEXAS HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE REGARDING THE ARCHEOLOGICAL PROCEDURES FOR THE IMPACT TO REMOVAL OF AND TURD HUMAN REMAINS HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE 7 7 1 0 1 0 TITLED, ABANDONED, UNKNOWN OR UNCERTAIN UNVERIFIED CEMETERIES STATES VERY CLEARLY THE OWNER OF PROPERTY ON WHICH AN UNKNOWN CEMETERY IS DISCOVERED, OR IN WHICH AN ABANDONED CEMETERY IS LOCATED MAY NOT CONSTRUCT IMPROVEMENTS ON THE PROPERTY IN A MANNER IN WHICH WOULD DISTURB THE CEMETERY UNTIL THE HUMAN REMAINS INTERRED IN THE CEMETERY ARE REMOVED UNDER A WRITTEN ORDER ISSUED BY THE STATE REGISTER OR THE STATE REGISTER'S DESIGNEE UNDER SECTION SO-AND-SO, OR BY A COURT ORDER. STAFF HAS MADE A FINDING THAT REPOSITIONING OF THE SENATE TAFT MAY OVERLAY THIS HISTORIC CEMETERY. THE PROPOSED STREET CLOSERS CERTAINLY OVERLAY THE CEMETERY. IN ADDITION, UH, THE PROPOSAL TO PLANT A HUNDRED TREES WILL AFFECT THE UNDERLYING CEMETERY ROOT BULBS OF AT LEAST FIVE FEET PER TREE. THE, THE, THE, THE FUTURE ROOT SYSTEMS WILL IMP PENETRATE THE EXISTING CEMETERY. AND AS THE PREVIOUS SPEAKERS SAID SO ELOQUENTLY PLANTING TREES IN A PLAZA IS ANACHRONISTIC AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HISTORICAL PLAZA OF THE CEMETERY. WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? WE'RE ASKING THIS COMMISSION THAT THE APPLICANTS BE REQUIRED TO COMPLETE A CEMETERY BOUNDARY DELINEATION STUDY AND AN ARCHIVAL ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY AS WERE PERFORMED AT BOTH MILAM PARK AND SANTA ROSA HOSPITAL FOR THEIR UNKNOWN CEMETERIES. IN THIS WAY, THE COMMITTEE AND THE PUBLIC WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THE BURIALS ARE AND WHERE CONSTRUCTION CAN, CAN BE P PERFORMED IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY LAW TO AVOID INTERFERING WITH THE CEMETERY. ADDITIONALLY, THE TOP PTECH NATION AGREES WITH THE ALAMO DEFENDER DESCENDANT'S ASSOCIATION THAT THE SENATE HALF IS A ARY MONUMENT ERECTED IN THE HISTORIC MISSION VELO CEMETERY AND SHOULD BE LEFT UNMOLESTED AS SUCH. NUMBER TWO, THE HUMAN REMAINS PROTOCOLS ADOPTED BY THE APPLICANT ON THIS PROJECT DO NOT CONFORM WITH THE CITY'S UNIFORM DEVELOPMENT CODE OR STANDARD ARCHEOLOGICAL PRACTICE. 15 SECONDS. WE ASK THAT THE APPLICANTS BE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW THE U D C IN PARTICULAR SECTION 1 0 6 OF THE HISTORICAL, UH, PRESERVATION ACT, WHICH REQUIRES LINEAL DESCENDANTS, UH, AND AFFILIATED GROUPS TO BE CONSULTING PARTIES ON THE PROJECT. HAD THE MISSION INDIANS AND THE ALAMO DEFENDERS BEEN ALLOWED TO, THAT'S TIME TO PARTICIPATE. WE, I DON'T BELIEVE WE WOULD BE IN THIS POSITION OR IN A FEDERAL LAWSUIT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. DO JOSE, MARCIA OR JESUS PAEZ WISH TO SPEAK. WHAT IS YOUR NAME? SO WE'LL MOVE ON TO EMILY DOUGHERTY. UM, MS. DOUGHERTY HAS A FEW PEOPLE SIGNED IN AS WELL. I HAVE AMANDA ALVAREZ, DESTINY GALVEZ, BECKY SHERIDAN, CINDY HEALER, AND SKYLAR NEWMAN WHO HAVE SIGNED IN. BUT I CAN ONLY GIVE TWO OF YOU. DO ANY OF YOU WISH TO SPEAK IN ADDITION TO EMILY? OKAY. SO SIX MINUTES FOR EMILY. OKAY. MY NAME IS EMILY DOHERTY. I LIVE AT ONE 20 CLAREMONT IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. I AM HERE TODAY TO, UM, OPPOSE ALAMO. UM, PHASE ONE, UH, EVERYONE'S ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE SENATE TAF. WE ALL KNOW HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THE SENATE TAF. I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS MORE OF A BUSINESS AND INCOME, UM, LOSS. UM, LOOKING AT THE ROAD CLOSURES. UM, I AM ALSO HERE REPRESENTING H R H AND YELLOW ROADS CARRIAGE COMPANIES. I AM AN A CARRIAGE OPERATOR OF FOUR YEARS. UM, OUR COMPANIES CURRENTLY HAVE ABOUT 20 CONTRACTORS. WE'RE ALL INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS AS DRIVERS. SO WE DO ACTUALLY ALL HAVE OUR OWN BUSINESS AS A CARRIAGE DRIVER. IN ADDITION, THERE ARE A TOTAL OF FIVE CARRIAGE COMPANIES WITH APPROXIMATELY 50 DRIVERS. I DON'T HAVE EXACT NUMBERS FROM THOSE COMPANIES AS I DON'T WORK FOR THEM. UM, SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT 50 INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS WHO THIS IS THEIR SOLE JOB. UM, THIS IS OUR BUSINESS AND WE WILL BE OUT [01:55:01] OF A BUSINESS IF YOU CLOSE THESE STREETS. UM, MOST IMPORTANTLY, UM, CLOSING THESE STREETS IS TAKING AWAY 15 OF OUR 2015, UH, CARRIAGE PARKING SPOTS. WE PARK, PEOPLE WALK UP TO US, THEY TAKE A RIDE. UM, IF YOU TAKE AWAY 15 SPOTS, WE DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE TO DO BUSINESS. UM, LET ME SEE IF I CAN PULL THIS UP. UM, 'CAUSE I NEEDED MY NOTES AS WELL. SO, UM, I HAVE GONE TO A RECENT STREET CLOSURE MEETING. UH, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT CLOSING THE, THE STREETS EAST, CROCKETT, BONUM, BLUM. I THINK THAT'S ALL OF THEM. UM, IN EARLY JANUARY OR FEBRUARY, UM, WHEN THOSE STREETS ARE CLOSED, THEY ARE GOING TO ALLOW, UM, TRUCKS TO HAVE A COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE ON ALAMO PLAZA. SO THERE ARE TWO NORTHBOUND LANES CURRENTLY. THEY'RE GONNA TAKE ONE OF THOSE NORTHBOUND LANES AND CLOSE IT. SO PART OF IT WILL BE A COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE. THEY'RE GONNA GIVE ONE SPOT TO THE TOUR BUSES AND, UH, VIA IS GOING TO KEEP THEIR CURRENT BUS STOP ON ALAMO PLAZA. IT'S LIKE RIGHT AFTER COMMERCE. UM, THEY ARE GIVING THE HORSE CARRIAGES, UM, CROCKETT STREET AT NIGHT. UM, THE REPLACEMENT, UH, PARKING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO PROVIDE FOR US IS ROOM FOR SIX CARRIAGES. WHERE ARE THE OTHER NINE GOING TO GO? UM, LET ME, OKAY, SO I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE HISTORY, UM, ON THIS FIRST PICTURE. THIS IS CARRIAGE PARKING, UM, ROOM FOR APPROXIMATELY SIX CARRIAGES THAT WE HAVE ALREADY LOST ON HOUSTON STREET DUE TO PREVIOUS, UM, PREVIOUS CHANGES. SO THAT'S, THAT'S SIX SPOTS THAT NO ONE USES RIGHT NOW. IT IS A NO PARKING ZONE. IT IS BIG ENOUGH FOR TOUR BUSES. ABOUT FOUR TOUR BUSES CAN FIT THERE. NO ONE CAN PARK THERE AT ALL. ALRIGHT. I DON'T KNOW. SORRY. YEP. OKAY. SO THIS SHOWS, UM, THIS IS EAST CROCKETT STREET. THE PART WITH THE X USED TO BE OUR CARRIAGE LOADING ZONE, WHICH HAS BEEN REMOVED AND ONLY, UM, THE CONTRACTORS WHO ARE WORKING ON CONSTRUCTION AT THE ALAMO PLAZA CAN PARK THERE. NOW, UH, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE THREE IS A BUS LOADING ZONE. AND FOUR AND FIVE ARE, UH, COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONES. WE'RE LOSING ALL THAT PARKING. AND ONE AND TWO. THIS IS A BLUM RIGHT AROUND THE MENGER WHERE THE STARBUCKS IS. THIS IS ALSO CARRIAGE PARKING. UM, THAT'S ROOM FOR ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN CARRIAGES. WE'RE LOSING ALL THAT. SO, UM, NINE PEOPLE NOW DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE TO PARK NOW. DON'T HAVE ANY PEDESTRIANS. UM, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT HISTORY OF CARRIAGES, THEY HAVE BEEN AROUND THE ALAMO SINCE WE STARTED. 38 YEARS AGO IS WHEN YELLOW ROSE CARRIAGE COMPANY WAS FOUNDED. OUR CARRIAGES HAVE BEEN ALWAYS AT THE ALAMO. PEOPLE COME, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN 10 YEARS, 20 YEARS, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN HERE SINCE THEY WERE STATIONED IN THE ARMY IN THE SEVENTIES. AND THEY COME TO THE ALAMO TO FIND THE CARRIAGES AND GO FOR A RIDE. WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GO? THEY'RE GONNA SAY, OH, THE CARRIAGES AREN'T HERE. I GUESS WE DON'T GO FOR A RIDE. THEY DON'T, THEY WON'T CALL. THEY WON'T LOOK FOR US. YOU'RE PUTTING US OUT OF BUSINESS. IN ADDITION, THE DOUBLE DECKER BUSES, THE HOTELS, THE RIPLEY'S AND OTHER SHOPS ALONG ALAMO PLAZA ARE ALL GOING TO BE OUT OF A BUSINESS. THIS IS, THIS IS A BUSINESS ASPECT. YOU'RE LOOKING AT SMALL BUSINESSES PROVIDING FOR FAMILIES, PROVIDING FOR CHILDREN. YOU'RE PUTTING US OUTTA BUSINESS. IN ADDITION TO THAT, UM, I HAVE TOLD OVER 100 RIDES. I'VE TAKEN OVER A HUNDRED RIDES SINCE I'VE MET Y'ALL LAST WEEK OR TWO WEEKS AGO. ON DECEMBER 4TH, I HAVE MET PEOPLE FROM WESLACO, MACALLAN, AUSTIN HOUSTON, EL PASO COLLEGE STATION FROM EAST TEXAS, DALLAS, SAN ANTONIONS, A LOT OF THEM, UH, INDIANA, NORTH CAROLINA, PENNSYLVANIA, NEW JERSEY, MINNESOTA, COLORADO, AND FLORIDA. I TELL THEM ABOUT THE PLAN FOR THE ALAMO. I SAY, HEY, DO YOU GUYS WANNA HEAR WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO OVER HERE? AND I EXPLAIN TO THEM, THEY'RE GONNA MOVE THE SENATE HALF. THEY'RE GONNA CLOSE THE ROADS. AND THEY GO, WHY DOES THE SENATE HALF HALF TO MOVE? AND I TELL THEM, I DON'T KNOW, HONEST TO GOODNESS, NO ONE HAS EVER WRITTEN IT DOWN, TOLD ME SPECIFICALLY WHY IT HAS TO MOVE 10 SECONDS. AND SO WHY DOES IT HAVE TO MOVE? THEY'RE LIKE, WHY CAN'T WE LEAVE IT HERE? THEY SEE THE BEAUTY, THEY SEE THE REVERENCE. THEY'RE NOT EVEN FROM HERE. AND THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT REPRESENTS. LET'S NOT CLOSE THE STREETS GUYS. [02:00:05] LINDA JIMENEZ, FOLLOWED BY ANGIE AGUIRE. THANK YOU, IRAN. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, I'M LINDA JIMENEZ, ESP LINDA JIMENEZ. I'M HERE AS A MEMBER OF THE TAP LA NATION TRIBAL COUNCIL. AND, UM, I WANTED TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THE ALAMO WAS A MISSION BEFORE IT WAS A FAMOUS BATTLEGROUND. AND AS A MISSION, IT HAD BURIAL GROUNDS. UH, PEOPLE WERE BURIED IN THE CHAPEL AND AROUND THE CHAPEL. AS, AS MR. UH, MARTINEZ AVARA WAS TALKING A FEW MINUTES AGO. AND IT'S, I WANNA REMIND ALSO PEOPLE THAT IT'S NOT AN INDIAN BURIAL GROUND. UH, SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE COMMENTED TO ME PERSONALLY THAT IT'S AN INDIAN BURIAL GROUND. AND IT'S NOT. THERE ARE IN, THERE ARE NATIVE PEOPLE THAT ARE BURIED THERE, BUT EVERY PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE WERE BURIED THERE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WERE, WHO WERE SPANIARDS. THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE WHO, WHO ARE BURIED THERE, WHO WERE FROM WHAT WOULD BECOME THE UNITED STATES MUCH LATER AFTER THE MISSION WAS, UH, ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE, AFTER THE MISSION WAS ESTABLISHED. AND, UM, THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM MEXICO. THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM LOTS OF DIFFERENT PLACES. AND SO IT'S NOT JUST AN INDIAN BURIAL GROUND. WE WANNA, WE WANT TO PROTECT THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE BURIED THERE REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY CAME FROM OR WHEREVER THEY WERE FROM. AND ONE THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT BECAUSE IT WAS A MISSION, MOST OF THE PEOPLE BURIED THERE CATHOLIC. SO IT'S A CATHOLIC BURIAL GROUND. IT'S NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, UH, UNBAPTIZED PEOPLE OR ANYBODY WHO'S WHO'S, WHO WAS THERE AT THE TIME. RIGHT? UM, OUR REPRESENTATIVE ON THE, ON THE, THE ALAMO COMMITTEE RAISED CONCERNS ABOUT THIS PLAN ALMOST FROM THE BEGINNING. BUT OUR CONCERNS WERE NEVER, UH, ADDRESSED. AND SO WE FOUND IT NECESSARY TO FILE SUIT BECAUSE THERE COULDN'T, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OTHER RECOURSE. WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO TO BE ABLE TO, TO DO 15 SECONDS THINGS THAT WE NEEDED TO DO. AND SO, UNTIL AN, AN AN, AN ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY IN THE DETERMINATION OF THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CEMETERY ARE DETERMINE THE, THE, UH, ATIVE SHOULD NOT BE MOVED AND NO OTHER ACTIVITIES REQUIRE REQUIRING EXCAVATION SHOULD PROCEED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANGIE AGUIRE, FOLLOWED BY KYLE BIMAN. HI, I'M ANGIE AGUIRE AT 1108 11 800 BRA VIEW, UH, HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. UM, AND I JUST WANTED TO, UM, I'M A TEXAN. I JUST WANTED TO, UM, GIVE MY SUPPORT TO ALL MY, UH, TEXAN FRIENDS HERE, THE WUH HA UM, OPPOSING THE MOVING OF THE, UH, SAN HALF. AND, UM, EXCUSE ME, 'CAUSE I HAVE A SORE THROAT. BUT YOU ALL ARE MEMBERS, UH, 11 MEMBERS APPOINTED TO THE HISTORIC RENOVATION AND, AND DESIGN. AND, UH, SO WE IMPLORE YOU JUST TO, TO LEAVE IT ALONE AND JUST, UH, DON'T MOVE IT. NOT NOT ONE INCH. DON'T MOVE. DO IT. DON'T REMOVE THE SENATE TAB. DON'T REMOVE PARADE ROUTE. DON'T REMOVE PLAZA ACCESS. JUST THE HIS DON'T BE A HISTORY ERASER BECAUSE THIS IS GONNA BE ON YOU. YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA BE KNOWN AS THE, THE MEMBERS THAT WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR MOVING THE SENATE, TAF AND FOR APPROVING THIS. SO WE, UH, VOTERS, WE ARE ALL VOTERS. SO WE'RE GONNA REMEMBER THIS AND JUST, UH, JUST LEAVE IT ALONE AND DON'T REMOVE THIS. THIS IS HISTORY. THIS IS TEXAS HISTORY. AND ALSO ABOUT, UH, ADDING THE, UM, NAMES TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE, UH, TO THE, UH, MEMO MEMORY OF THE OPPOSING SIDE. THAT'S BAD. IT'S LIKE ADDING A MONUMENT IN JAPAN FOR THE PEARL HARBOR, THE ONE THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BOMBING. SO DON'T, DON'T DO THIS AND JUST IMPLORE YOU. UM, WE WILL NEVER FORGET. SO WE WILL NEVER FORGET YOU IF YOU DECIDE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THIS STUPID, YOU KNOW, IDEA ABOUT MOVING THE SENATE. THANK YOU. 15. OKAY. KYLE BIERMAN, FOLLOWED BY JENNIFER LOPEZ. UM, MR. PETERMAN RECEIVES FOUR MINUTES. GEORGE RODRIGUEZ HAS YIELDED HIS TIME. CAN I SEE MR. RODRIGUEZ'S HAND? THANK YOU. GEORGE RODRIGUEZ HERE. YES. UM, WE'LL HAVE TO GIVE YOU TWO MINUTES. MR. BEATERMAN. IS GEORGE RODRIGUEZ HERE? HE, HE JUST LEFT. BUT, UH, AS A STATE REPRESENTATIVE, I JUST ASKED FOR GRACE TO GIVE ME THE FOUR MINUTES PLEASE. UM, WHO HAS YIELDED THEIR TIME? GEORGE RODRIGUEZ. GEORGE RODRIGUEZ IS NOT PRESENT. WHAT IS YOUR NAME, SIR? [02:05:03] AND THIS WILL GO NEXT. OH, LUKE MEYER. OKAY. LUKE MEYER HAS YIELDED HIS TIME. THANK YOU LUKE. THANK YOU, UM, CHAIRMAN AND UM, COMMITTEE MEMBERS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING THIS TO, UH, BE HERE AGAIN IS AGAIN, MY NAME'S KYLE BEATERMAN. I'M A STATE REPRESENTATIVE FOR DISTRICT 73. SO I'VE SAT WHERE YOU ARE FOR MANY, MANY HEARINGS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE. UH, I KNOW IT'S NOT EASY, BUT THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT HEARINGS YOU'LL EVER SIT BY. 'CAUSE YOU'RE ACTUALLY LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE OF TEXAS SPEAKING THE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM. AND SO IT'S NOT JUST ANOTHER BUILDING, IT'S NOT JUST AN APARTMENT OR ADDING A PORCH SOMEWHERE. THIS IS THE ALAMO, THIS IS THE SANITA. THE WHOLE REASON THAT WE HAVE TEXAS, THE WHOLE REASON THAT WE'RE HERE. I WANNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY ABOUT, UH, THE 86 LEGISLATIVE SESSION. WE KEEP HEARING HOW PEOPLE'S VOICES HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD. WELL, I HAD A HEARING ON THE ALAMO PLAN. THE ALAMO PLAN. I'M ON THE LAND OF RESOURCE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE AND I'M A MEMBER. OUR CHAIRMAN, TOM CRADOCK, UH, CALLED A HEARING TO LEARN ABOUT THE ALAMO PLAN SINCE WE OVERSEE THE GENERAL LAND OFFICE AGENCY. SO OUR COMM, OUR CHAIRMAN ASKED FOR GEORGE P. BUSH AS WELL AS MAYOR NIERENBERG TO TESTIFY BEFORE OUR COMMITTEE AND LET US KNOW ABOUT THE ALAMO PLAN. DO YOU THINK EITHER ONE OF THEM SHOWED UP? OF COURSE NOT. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WE'RE, THE STATE OF TEXAS WE'RE THE COMMITTEE THAT OVERSEES EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING AT THE ALAMO, AND YET WE CANNOT GET THE TWO PEOPLE THAT ARE MAKING THE FINAL DECISIONS TO EVEN COME AND TESTIFY. AND LET US ASK THEM QUESTIONS. SO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO SENT SOMEBODY ELSE. THEY SENT, UH, SHARON MILLER, WHO WAS THE DIRECTOR OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION FOR 10 YEARS. GUTLESS SHARON CAME GREAT WOMAN. SHE COULDN'T ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS BECAUSE SHE'S SO FILLED LIKE MOST EVERYONE ELSE WITH THE ALAMO PLAN AND ALL THEIR TERMINOLOGY AND ALL THEIR FANCY WORDS. AND WE HAD TO APOLOGIZE TO HER AFTER AN HOUR. SHE COULDN'T ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT YOU'RE HEARING TODAY, THE INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE HEARING TODAY. SHE COULDN'T ANSWER A LOT OF THOSE QUESTIONS. OF COURSE, GEORGE P. BUSH WOULDN'T, WOULDN'T SHOW UP. SO HE SENT HIS HIS ATTORNEY. SAME THING. SAME THING. IT'S A SHAME. THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE UPSET. LACK OF TRANSPARENCY BY OUR CITY OFFICIALS AND OUR STATE OFFICIALS AND LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AND DECEPTION ABOUT WHAT THIS PLAN IS BECAUSE THE PLAN IS NOT EVEN COMPLETE. AND YET IT'S SIGNED IN THE STATE OF TEXAS OBLIGATED FOR 50 YEARS TO A LEASE WITH, WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. AND YET THEY DON'T EVEN AGREE ON WHAT THE PLAN SAYS BECAUSE I ASKED TO HAVE BOTH OF THEM IN THE SAME ROOM TO TELL US ABOUT THE PLAN. THEY WON'T SHOW UP. THEY STILL WON'T SHOW UP. IT'S A SHAME. IT'S A SHAME. UM, I SENT THIS LETTER TO, UM, GOVERNOR ABBOTT LAST WEEK. NO RESPONSE. THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE CAUSING SO MUCH FRUSTRATION TO THE PEOPLE OF TEXAS. WE ASK AND WE'RE WE'RE JUST GRATEFUL THAT YOU ALL LISTENING THE FIRST TIME WE'VE GOTTEN A CHANCE TO REALLY TALK TO PEOPLE. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. I JUST ASKED YOU JUST A TABLE FOR A LITTLE LONGER WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TODAY. HOW MANY BUILDINGS OR MONUMENTS OF THIS SIZE HAVE YOU EVER AGREED TO MOVE 500 FEET? JUST BECAUSE IT'S IN THE WAY. HOW MANY SECONDS? I DON'T THINK YOU'VE EVER DONE THIS BEFORE. AND YET THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO DO RIGHT NOW WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING THE COST. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE COST IS. WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR THE COST FOR A LONG TIME. THIS IS OWNED BY THE CITIZENS OF TEXAS, THE CITY CITIZENS OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, THE TAXPAYERS. IT'S NOT OWNED BY YOU, IT'S NOT OWNED BY THE CITY. THAT'S TIME. AND SO WE JUST ASK THAT YOU LISTEN TO US PLEASE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. UP NEXT IS ACTUALLY RAYMOND HERNANDEZ. I'LL TAKE THAT LETTER. RAYMOND HERNANDEZ. UM, JENNIFER LOPEZ AND EMMA DIAZ HAVE YIELDED THEIR TIME. CAN I SEE YOUR HANDS? THANK YOU. TODAY, UH, I'M RAYMOND HERNANDEZ. I'M GONNA ASK YOU, WHERE HAVE Y'ALL BEEN THE LAST 35 YEARS? I SERVED IN THE ALAMO PLAZA STUDY COMMITTEE IN 1994 IN THE SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE BURIALS. AND THE CONCLUSION AFTER ALL OF THESE MEETINGS WAS [02:10:01] FOLLOW THE LAW AND DO WHAT'S RIGHT AND ESTABLISH, AND THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE WERE CEMETERIES DURING THAT PROCESS WITH THE STATE OF TEXAS AND THE D R T. THEY WANTED TO DO A RENOVATION. AND I FOUGHT AGAINST IT BECAUSE I SAID, YOU'RE GONNA FIND BURIALS THERE AND WE HAVE TO HAVE A PROTOCOL. BE THE, UH, TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION. ERNEST TUNNEL AGREED. IT'S A CEMETERY. I'VE ALWAYS SAID IT'S A CEMETERY. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED OVER THE YEARS GOING BACK TO THE 1920S WHEN THE W P A WAS GOING OUT THERE, MOVING AND PUTTING UTILITIES ARE RUNNING AND DESTROYING ALL THESE REMAINS. NOBODY CAN SAY WHERE THEY WERE PUT, BUT THOSE WERE 1300 BURIALS NAMES OF PEOPLE THAT ARE BURIED THERE. I PERSONALLY HAVE GRANDPARENTS THERE. I AM A DIRECT LINEAL DESCENDANT. 10 GENERATIONS BACK. NOW YOU GO BACK 10 GENERATIONS, YOU DESCEND FROM 1,024 PEOPLE IT TAKES TO MAKE YOU, THAT'S A GIVEN MATHEMATICAL EQUATION THAT'S DEAD ON. IT TAKES 1,024 TO MAKE YOU. SO I GOT UNCLES, AUNTS, COUSINS THAT ARE BURIED THERE. EARLIEST ONES WERE IN 1725, DETE GURA AND HIS WIFE THE FOLLOWING YEAR. SO IT IS PERSONAL TO ME, NOT BECAUSE I JUST FOUND THAT OUT IN THE 1950S. NOW YOU'D THINK, WHAT WERE YOU DOING IN THE 1950S? MY GRANDFATHER ANASTASIO THAT WAS BAPTIZED AT SAN FERNANDO CATHEDRAL IN 19, IN 1876, WOULD TAKE ME IN THE FIFTIES WHEN I WAS YOUNG CHILD TO THE ALAMO, TO THE SANTA ROSA MILAM PARK AND TELL US ABOUT THE DESECRATIONS THAT HE WITNESSED DURING HIS LIFETIME BECAUSE THEY BUILT A HOSPITAL OVER THOSE BURIAL GROUNDS WHERE OUR FAMILIES ARE BURIED ALSO. THEY DID IT IN MILAM. THEY ALSO DID IT OVER HERE AT THE ALAMO. NOT ONLY THERE, BUT ALSO IN, WHEN I WAS IN VIETNAM IN 67 AT SOME, AT UH, SAN JUAN, SAN JUAN MISSION. IT HAPPENED THERE. I AM THE CULTURAL PRESERVATIONIST FOR THE PILAM NATION. FOR THE LAST 35 YEARS, I HAVE GONE AND REPATRIATED OVER 200 OF OUR ANCESTORS THAT WE HAVE FOUGHT TO GET 'EM BACK AND PUT 'EM BACK AT THE MISSIONS BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THEY BELONG. IT IS MY GRANDDAUGHTER'S LEGACY. SHE WASN'T EVEN BORN WHEN I STARTED THIS STRUGGLE WITH THE FAMILIES. SHE'S 29 YEARS OLD. SHE'S BEEN RAISED AND GOING TO THE ALAMO DURING OUR ANNIVERSARY WHEN IN 1995, WITH AN AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE OF TEXAS AND THE D R T, THAT IF THEY FOUND HUMAN REMAINS, THAT INSTEAD OF BEING OUTSIDE OF THE MISSIONS WHEN I WAS GOING TO HONOR OUR ANCESTORS WITH MY GRANDFATHER, IN THE FIFTIES, WE WOULD BE ALLOWED WHEREVER THAT BURIAL WAS FOUND. WELL, THEY FOUND ONE INSIDE THE ALAMO, THE CHAPEL MISSION, . AND FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS, WE HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO GO OUT THERE AND PAY OUR RESPECT WITH OUR KIDS AND OUR GRANDKIDS. WE GOT THREE GENERATIONS BEHIND ME THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED THERE IN THOSE THINGS. AND THIS YEAR, BECAUSE OF US NOT WANTING TO BE GOOD LITTLE INDIANS AND PLAY ALONG WITH THEM, AND WE CHALLENGE THEM TO FOLLOW THE LAW, JUST FOLLOW THE LAW AND PROTECT THE CEMETERIES, BECAUSE IT IS OUR GRANDKIDS LEGACY. AND I MAKE NO APOLOGIES ON HOW WE EVOLVED AS INDIANS. WE STILL HAVE A COMMUNITY. WE STILL IN EXISTENCE. WE'RE STILL HERE WITH THE LIVING DESCENDANTS. WE'RE NOT HERE FOR SHOW. BUT WE DO LIKE TO EDUCATE AND TEACH PEOPLE THE HISTORY OF TEXAS. THERE'S 128 YEARS OF HISTORY BEFORE THE BATTLE OF THE ALAMO. AND I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT HAD WE, OUR FAMILY'S NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL, THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A BATTLE OF THE ALAMO. THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHER BATTLES PRECEDING THAT. WE EVEN HAVE FAMILIES THAT, THAT ARE KNOWN AS SONS OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION UNDER, UH, VE YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY THAT SAN ANTONIO HAS. AND IT'S THEIR ADMISSION ERO. AND THOSE CEMETERIES ARE IMPORTANT, AND A LOT OF THEM HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE POST OFFICE HAS BEEN BUILT OVER SOME OF THE CEMETERIES. I UNDERSTAND WE'RE NOT ASKING TO REMO TEAR DOWN THOSE BUILDINGS AND PRESERVE THEM, BUT WE'RE SAYING BE CAREFUL AND PRESERVE WHAT'S THERE. TAKE CARE OF IT. [02:15:02] IT'S TEXAS HISTORY. IT IS SAN ANTONIO'S HISTORY. IT IS SOME OF OUR FAMILY'S LEGACY AND OUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THIS COUNTRY, TO THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, TO THE MAKING OF TEXAS, WHERE I BELIEVE THAT TEXAS IS WHAT IT IS TODAY BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE AT THE ALAMO AND WHAT OUR FAMILIES DID PRIOR TO THAT. AND BECAUSE OF OUR FAMILY. 15 SECONDS SERVICE, 15 SECONDS. GOING BACK TO FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, MY OR MY FAMILIES, I DIS DESCEND FROM FAMILIES THAT HAVE SERVED IN THE MILITARY, WHETHER IT WAS UNDER SPAIN, WHETHER IT WAS WITH THE TEXAN ENOS, THE CIVIL WAR, WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II, MYSELF, A VIETNAM VETERAN, MY DAUGHTER, A THAT'S TIME. A DESERT STORM, AND MY SON AN IRAQ VETERAN. AND I MEAN, YOU KNOW, COME ON. THIS IS NOT THE WAY YOU TREAT FAMILIES OF HISTORICAL, ESPECIALLY AS CHRISTIANS, AS A CATHOLIC CEMETERY. SIR, THAT'S YOUR HONOR. THAT YOU JUST GO IN THERE AND DESTROY THESE THINGS WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION. AND I'LL END IT WITH THIS. HAVE ANY OF Y'ALL WERE DESCENDANTS? I GUARANTEE YOU'D BE STANDING RIGHT HERE ARGUING THE SAME POINT. OKAY. THANK YOU SIR. BOB TOME. BOB TOME, FOLLOWED BY JACK M FINGER. THANK YOU, SIR. MY NAME'S BOB TOME. I DID NOT HAVE ANY NOTES OR I WASN'T PREPARED TO SPEAK. I, I'VE BEEN GUILTY THAT I HAVEN'T COME TO ANY OF THE SESSIONS UNTIL NOW. I'M HERE REPRESENTING MY FAMILY AND MY PARTNER'S FAMILY. MY PARTNER LOST HIS FOURTH GREAT-GRANDFATHER AT THE ALAMO. I'M A 10TH GENERATION TEXAN, AND MY FAMILY GOT HERE A HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE THE BATTLE OF THE ALAMO. I HAD FIVE FOURTH GENERATION GRANDFATHERS IN SAN ANTONIO DURING THE BATTLE. NONE OF THEM GOT KILLED, THANK GOD. NONE OF THEM DIED AT THE ALAMO. BUT THEY FOUGHT IN THE CHRISTMAS BATTLE. BEN MILAM DIED IN ONE OF MY GRANDFATHER'S ARMS. THEY FOUGHT AT THE GRASS WAR, AND TWO OF 'EM FOUGHT AT SAN JACINTO. THAT WAS DEF SMITH. WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU ASK, I DON'T KNOW Y'ALL AT ALL. I DON'T KNOW ANY OF Y'ALL. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU WERE BORN HERE, AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE YOU WERE BORN, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOUR GRANDPARENTS OR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS WERE BORN EITHER. I KNOW WHERE MY GREAT-GREAT-GREAT, GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GRANDPARENTS WERE BURIED. AND I'VE ALWAYS KNOWN IT'S VERY PERSONAL. WE HAVE A MAYOR FROM BOSTON. WE HAVE A, A LANDMAN, THE GENTLEMAN IN AUSTIN, MR. BUSH. AND I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT THE BUSH FOLKS WERE OKAY, BUT THEY'RE NOT TEXANS. THEY CAME HERE IN THE FIFTIES. THAT'S NOT A NEGATIVE. AND I KNOW THEY KNOW WHERE THEIR GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GRANDPARENTS ARE BORN, ARE BURIED. AND IF YOUR, WHEN YOUR GREAT-GRANDPARENTS ARE WHERE YOUR FIFTH GREAT-GRANDPARENTS ARE, IF YOU GO TO THE CEMETERY WHERE THEY LIVE, WHERE THEY WERE, AND SEE THAT GRAVE DESECRATED, 15 SECONDS, SEE IT KNOCKED DOWN. SEE IT MOVED. IT GETS PERSONAL. SO PLEASE DON'T DESTROY THE ONLY HEADSTONE WE HAVE FOR THE PARTS OF OUR FAMILIES AND, AND NEIGHBORS WHO DIED AND WERE BURNED BY A DICTATOR AND LEFT TO ROT AND EAT BY THE CROWS. AND WE FINALLY BUILT A, A HEADSTONE. AND Y'ALL WANNA MOVE IT BECAUSE SOME ARCHITECTS AND SOME PLANNING ENGINEERS, THAT'S FINE. HAVE A REAL GOOD IDEA OF THAT. IT'S GONNA LIGHT. THE LIGHT'S GONNA BE BETTER OVER THERE. NO, THE FUNERAL PILE IS RIGHT THERE. AND THAT'S WHY THAT STONE IS THERE. AMEN. THANK YOU, SIR. THAT'S YOUR TIME. THAT JACK AND FINGER FOLLOWED BY BILL BRINDLE, MR. CHAIR AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE COMMISSION. MY NAME IS JACK M FINGER. YOU SAY, YOU SAY THAT THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE LAST YEAR, A WHOLE YEAR AGO. CITY COUNCIL SAID THIS IS THE WAY IT'S GONNA BE. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THIS. OF COURSE, YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER THIS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. OH, JUST LET YOU KNOW. I'M ALSO, I LIVE IN DISTRICT ONE, WHICH ENCOMPASSES THE DOWNTOWN AREA. MR. FISH. I BELIEVE YOU REPRESENT THAT AREA. YES. YOU CAN TELL THE CITY COUNCIL, MAKE A MOTION TODAY. MAKE THE MOTION TODAY. SAY CITY COUNCIL, [02:20:01] A BIG MISTAKE HAS BEEN MADE. YES. JUST TELL HIM THAT. YOU CAN TELL HIM THAT MR. TREVINO SITTING RIGHT HERE. THE DISTRICT ONE REPRESENTATIVE. I TELL, TELL MR. VINNO THESE THINGS EVERY WEEK AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING PUBLICLY. IT CAN BE DONE RIGHT, MR. TREVINO? YES. TELL 'EM A BIG MISTAKE HAS BEEN MADE. WHY? BECAUSE THE, THE RED FLAGS ARE NUMEROUS ON THIS STUFF. NUMEROUS. THE, THE GRAVEYARD, THE LAWSUITS FOR IT, JUST TO NAME THE, THE ONE, YOU KNOW, THE DANGERS OF DISMANTLING THE SENATE TAF JUST WHERE IT IS, BUT THE ENORMOUS EXTRA DANGERS BEING PLA PLACING IT ELSEWHERE. YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW, HOW THAT IS GOING TO MAKE IT PERHAPS DESTROY THE WHOLE THING. YOU KNOW, YOU AND THE DESIGN OF THE THING. YOU SEE WHERE IT'S GONNA BE PLACED. YOU DON'T EVEN REALLY KNOW WHERE IT'S GONNA BE PLACED. EXACTLY. 10 SECONDS. I LOOKED AT THE, THE, THE ILLUSTRATIONS. TREES ARE OBSTRUCTING IT. YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE THE ALAMO WHERE YOU'RE PLANNING ON PLACING IT. ANOTHER BIG RED FLAG. ALAMO STREET. WHY ARE YOU REMOVING ALAMO? STREET VISITORS ARE IMPRESSED BY THE FACT THAT THEY CAN SEE IT FROM THEIR CARS, AND THEN THEY CAN. THAT'S TIME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. BILL BRI, FOLLOWED BY RAY HOWARD. THANK YOU COMMISSIONERS. UM, I AM, UH, ONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE. I REPRESENT DISTRICT NINE, JOHN COURAGES DISTRICT, AND I'VE SERVED ON THE COMMITTEE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. UH, I ALSO REPRESENT AS A GENERAL MANAGER, UH, THE CROCKETT AND THE MANGER HOTELS WHO HAVE, UH, BEEN LOCATED BASICALLY ON THE PLAZA FOR A COMBINED 270 YEARS. AND, AND WE OPERATE BUSINESSES THERE TO THIS DAY. UH, THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE, YOU KNOW, WAS APPOINTED TO, UH, FROM PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE CITY. SO THERE HAS BEEN A VOICE OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER SAN ANTONIO. UH, AND WE HELP CREATE THE VISION AND GUIDING PRINCIPLES THAT STILL REMAIN TODAY. AND DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE WITH THE ALAMO PLAN. UH, THERE WERE MANY REASONS THAT I VOTED IN FAVOR OF THE ALAMO PLAN, AS DID VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE, UH, IN 2018. AND I RE REMAIN IN FAVOR OF PHASE ONE OF THE PLAN AS IT IS TODAY. UH, I WILL CONTINUE TO BE A VOICE, UH, OF CARE, CONCERN AND COMPROMISE AS THE COMMITTEE CONTINUES TO HEAR DETAILS OF THE PLAN AS IT PROGRESSES. AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I I THINK THAT'S, IT WILL BE IMPORTANT AS THE PLAN GOES ALONG. IT STILL HAS MANY PHASES TO STILL TO BE IMPLEMENTED. I APPRECIATE YOUR CONSIDERATION AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. RAY HOWARD, FOLLOWED BY SARAH REVELRY. THANK YOU FOR THIS TIME TO SPEAK HERE. EXCUSE ME. UM, MY NAME IS RAY HOWARD. I'M FROM INGRAM, TEXAS. I DON'T HAVE ANY NOTES. I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT, BUT I DO HAVE THIS, I HAVE A HEART. I HAVE THAT GOD TOLD ME TO BE HERE. I JUST FOUND OUT REALLY, I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS NOT TOO LONG AGO. AND IT BREAKS MY HEART AND IT'S BREAKING GOD'S HEART. THIS IS, THIS IS HALLOWED GROUND. THERE'S CEMETERIES, THERE'S THE PEOPLE THAT DIED THERE. WE'RE REPRESENTING THE ONES THAT FOUGHT FOR THE FREEDOM OF TEXAS. OKAY? THEIR, THEIR HONOR, THEIR SACRIFICE IS ON US. IT'S ON YOU. I'VE BEEN ALL OVER THE WORLD. I WAS RAISED IN THE MILITARY. I WAS BORN THE NEXT STATE OVER IN NEW MEXICO. MY WHOLE, ALL MY FAMILY IS FROM TEXAS, SO I'M SORT OF LIKE A BASTARD CHILD, EXCUSE ME. BUT IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO GET HERE. ANYHOW, THIS IS, THIS IS A SPIRITUAL BATTLE. OUR WHOLE COUNTRY IS IN THIS TURMOIL BEING DIVI DIVISION. AND GOD DOESN'T WANT THIS AT ALL. HE TOLD ME TO BE HERE. I MEAN, REALLY, THIS IS ALL ABOUT EDUCATION. WE'RE ALREADY IN THE POINT RIGHT NOW THAT OUR CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN DON'T EVEN CARE ABOUT HISTORY. AND THAT'S THE WHOLE THING. YOU'RE TRYING TO ERASE HISTORY. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. THIS IS NOT WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. PLEASE, YOU CAN'T DO THIS. LOOK, LIKE I SAID, I WAS RAISED IN THE MILITARY ALL OVER THE PLACE. I'VE BEEN TO BATTLEGROUNDS ALL SECONDS OVER, OVER THE WORLD. 15 SECONDS. DON'T TURN THIS INTO A THEME PARK OR WHATEVER THE ULTIMATE PLAN IS TO BE. THIS [02:25:01] IS HALLOWED GROUND. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, SARAH LEY. IT'S SARAH REELY, BUT THAT'S OKAY. I CORRECT PEOPLE. ALL MY NAME IS SARAH REEDLEY. I'M A SIXTH GENERATION GERMAN TEXAN, A DAUGHTER OF THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS, AND A VOLUNTEER FOR THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION TO DOCUMENT THE TEXAS CENTENNIAL. SO I CONSIDER MYSELF QUITE KNOWLEDGEABLE OF, OF THE FACTS. I JUST WANT TO TELL Y'ALL ONE THING. I THINK IT'S A WONDERFUL PLAN. I HOPE Y'ALL GO AHEAD WITH IT. I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT I'VE HEARD HERE FROM PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY, BUT SOME OF THE DETAILS ARE WRONG. AND I, I WOULD HOPE THAT, THAT THEY ARE TURNING IN A NARRATIVE TO YOU THAT, THAT, THAT I COULD GO THROUGH AND JUST CORRECT A FEW DETAILS. BUT, BUT THAT'S, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO IF YOU WOULD JUST LET HER SPEAK. OKAY. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY, BUT THAT'S JUST WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. I THINK THAT YOU'RE GETTING SOME MISINFORMATION. I THINK THAT YOU'RE GETTING A LOT OF PASSION. I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S OPINIONS, BUT I'M PASSIONATE ENOUGH ABOUT THE ALAMO. I WAS THE LADY THAT 10 YEARS AGO FILED A COMPLAINT WITH THE TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL ABOUT THE MISMANAGEMENT AND THE LACK OF PRESERVATION OF THE ALAMO. AND I STILL LOVE IT. I'M A DAUGHTER AGAIN. BUT, UH, I, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY, THAT I, I THINK THERE'S SOME MISINFORMATION THAT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED, BUT I HOPE YOU GUYS GO AHEAD. I'M VERY PROUD OF Y'ALL BEING HERE. I'D NEVER WANNA SIT ON THAT BOARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. OKAY, EVERYONE, PLEASE CALM DOWN. ORDER PLEASE ORDER, PLEASE. THAT IS ALL THE SPEAKERS WE HAVE SIGNED IN TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. WOULD THE APPLICANT PLEASE COME BACK UP? I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU WANT TO, UM, ADD OR COMMENT ON, UH, COMMENTS MADE ABOUT THE WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA TODAY BY, UH, THE PUBLIC THAT YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS. THERE WERE A COUPLE ITEMS THAT, THAT I'D LIKE TO OFFER SOME POINTS OF CLARIFICATION. NOT NECESSARILY REBUTTAL IN, IN ANY WAY, BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT I DIDN'T, DIDN'T POTENTIALLY TOUCH ON. UH, I WANNA OFFER CLARITY. UM, TALKS ABOUT THE LOCATION CHOSEN. THERE WAS A COUPLE COMMENTS THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, LOCATION'S NOT EVEN DETERMINED YET. THE MATERIAL YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU, UH, YOU KNOW, DISTINCTLY, UH, REPRESENTS THE SINGLE LOCATION THAT'S PROPOSED FOR THE, FOR THE . LIKEWISE, UH, THE UNDERGROUND UTILITIES SURVEY IS DONE. UH, SO WE ARE WORKING AROUND THE EXEC LOCATION OF THOSE SURVEYS. AND, UH, CURRENTLY BEING ALL THE CIVIL U ALL THE CIVIL DESIGN THAT'S GOING ON IS, IS BASED ON EXISTING AND CURRENT SURVEYS. UH, THE GEOTECH HAS BEEN ORDERED, UH, HAS BEEN RECEIVED AND IS BEING USED FOR THE NEW FOUNDATION, UH, MATERIAL THAT IS CURRENTLY UNDER DESIGNED FOR THE NEW SUBSTRUCTURE. UH, LIKEWISE ARCHEOLOGY. THE T H C PERMIT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND THERE IS A HUMAN RAIN REMAINS PROTOCOL PROTOCOL IN PLACE WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UH, SO THAT, THOSE CAME IN, UH, JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY BECAUSE WE DID SPOKE IN, IN DETAIL TO THOSE, UH, DURING THE ORIGINAL PIECE OF THE PRESENTATION. UH, A A COUPLE ITEMS ON THE, ON THE RESTORATION. WE TALKED TWO WEEKS AGO, WE TALKED IN DETAIL ABOUT RESTORATION PRACTICES, UH, WHEN THERE WERE A COUPLE ITEMS, I THINK YOU STILL HAVE THE COPY OF THE, OF THE FULL PRESENTATION FROM TWO WEEKS AGO. TALKED ABOUT THE DESIGN FOR THE NEW SUBSTRUCTURE, UH, THE REASON FOR IT CONCRETE, THE CONCRETE MIXED DESIGN. SO ALL THAT DETAIL, I, I WON'T GO IN THROUGH AGAIN, BUT JUST A REMINDER, YOU, YOU HAVE BEEN PRESENTED THAT IN THE PAST. YOU HAVE DETAIL THERE AS WELL. WE TALKED ABOUT THE RESTORATION PRACTICES, UH, AND THE INTENT OF REMOVING PIECE BY PIECE AND BEING ABLE TO DO THE RESTORATION ALL ON SITE. THEN NONE OF THE PIECES WILL BE REMOVED AND TAKEN ANYWHERE OFFSITE THAT THE RESTORATION IS INTENDED TO BE ON SITE AND IN PUBLIC. UM, JUST AGAIN, WANTED TO REMIND YOU OF THAT CONVERSATION THAT HAPPENED TWO WEEKS AGO. UM, FINALLY, THERE WAS, UM, A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT ORIENTATION. AND AGAIN, A REMINDER, WE DID SPEAK TO IT HERE A FEW MINUTES AGO DURING THE ORIGINAL PRESENTATION, BUT WE DID TAKE INTO ACCOUNT AND DO UNDERSTAND KAINE'S DESIGN INTENT, THE, THE CONVERSATION ABOUT EACH ONE OF THE SCULPTURES AND THE ORIENTATION OF THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE. WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE ORIENTATION OF THE STATE OF TEXAS [02:30:01] SCULPTURE THAT'S ON THE BACKSIDE, WHICH ORIGINALLY DONE TO FACE THE FEDERAL BUILDING, UH, A LOT OF THOUGHT WENT INTO, AS WE DISCUSSED TWO WEEKS AGO, A LOT OF THOUGHT WENT INTO THE ORIENTATION, NOT ONLY FROM A SITE DESIGN ASPECT TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT AND UNDERSTAND THE SYNTA IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE HISTORIC FOOTPRINT IN THE BATTLEGROUND AND THE CHURCH. THAT WAS ONE REASON THAT WE DISCUSSED TWO WEEKS AGO ABOUT THE CHOICE OF THE ORIENTATION, BUT ALSO THE IMPORTANCE OF THE SPIRIT OF SACRIFICE. SCULPTURE TO FACE THAT BATTLEGROUND RATHER THAN AWAY FROM THE BATTLEGROUND WAS ONE OF THE PRIMARY REASONS FOR THAT, UH, FOR THAT SWITCH IN ORIENTATION. JUST AGAIN, WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT PIECE. UM, FINALLY AGAIN, YOU HAVE THE PREVIOUS PRESENTATION, THE FULL PRESENTATION. I THINK IT WAS 50 PLUS SLIDES. WE ONLY TOOK EXCERPTS FROM IT. WE HAVE A COPY OF THAT HERE. IF ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS THAT COME UP, WE NEED TO REFER BACK TO IT, WE CAN, WE CAN DO THAT AS WELL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND THANK EVERYONE WHO HAS COME HERE TODAY TO SPEAK PRO AND CON. UM, THE COMMISSION DOES TAKE EVERYONE'S, UH, COMMENTS INTO, UH, INTO HEART. UM, AND NOW WE WILL HAVE DISCUSSION BY THE COMMISSION. THANK YOU. UM, I HAVE, UH, ONE QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE PLAN FOR THE INTERPRETIVE ELEMENTS. IS THERE A TIMELINE ON WHEN THOSE ELEMENTS WILL BE DEVELOPED OR WHEN, UH, THAT MIGHT RETURN TO THE COMMISSION? THE CONTENT? UH, THE INTENT WOULD BE TO RETURN IT TO THE COMMISSION FROM A DETAILED STANDPOINT. THE, THE CONTENT WE FEEL IS, IS A GOOD DIRECTION UNDER DEVELOPMENT OVER THE DESIGN, EXACT DESIGN OF THE PANELS AND THE HEIGHT, ET CETERA, AND THE EXACT, UH, MATERIALS, ET CETERA. UM, NO, I DON'T HAVE A TIMELINE TO GIVE YOU. WE KNOW THAT THE PLAN IS INTENT TO FINISH BY THE END OF 2020. AND SO WHEN YOU START TO BACK THAT OFF, UH, WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO LEAVE TIME FOR FABRICATION AND, AND DESIGN DETAIL. SO I WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE A HANDFUL OF MONTHS TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH FABRICATION. SO THE DESIGN DETAILS WILL BE DONE CERTAINLY BEFORE THAT, IF THAT HELPS. THOSE, I KNOW THAT'S A GENERAL ANSWER, BUT THAT IS THE INTENT. WELL, I, I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE AND ANSWERING QUESTIONS FOR US. UM, I WAS HERE A YEAR AGO WHEN WE DISCUSSED THE MASTER PLAN AND THE FINAL APPROVAL ON THE RELOCATION TO THIS AREA FOR THE SENATE. I SUPPORTED THE PROJECT STRONGLY, THEN I SUPPORTED TODAY. UM, I THINK THE ROTATION TOOK ME A DAY OR TWO TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THAT THAT WAS PROBABLY THE BEST, UH, RELATIONSHIP AS IT, UH, RELATES TO THE ALAMO, THE CHURCH AND ITS POSITION IN THE PLAZA. AND I'M COMFORTABLE WITH ALL THE ELEMENTS OF IT. I APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S PASSION AND INTEREST ON THE ISSUE. UM, BUT I MOVE FOR APPROVAL PER STAFF RECOMMENDATION OF ALL REQUEST ITEMS AS SUBMITTED. SECOND, A MOTION AND SECOND. UH, ANY DISCUSSION MR. VELASQUEZ? MR. CHAIRMAN? I HAVE, UH, A COUPLE OF CONCERNS THAT WHILE THEY, THEY ARE RELATED O O ONLY IN, IN THE SENSE THAT, UM, THERE ARE CONCERNS THAT ARE FROM THE PUBLIC THAT ARE BASED ON, UM, AS, AS MUCH KNOWLEDGE AS YOU CAN GET FROM, UM, YOU KNOW, THE ORAL TRADITIONS IN SAN ANTONIO WITH RESPECT TO, UM, TEXAS HISTORY. IT'S REALLY HARD SUBJECT TO TO, TO UNDERSTAND. UM, BUT, UM, RELATED TO THE ACTUAL, THE APPLICATION BEFORE US, I ASKED STAFF A QUESTION AT THE LAST, UH, SESSION THAT THEY DIDN'T ANSWER. AND I ASKED THE QUESTION A FEW TIMES AND, AND TO ME, IT'S, IT'S THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION WITH RESPECT TO, UH, THE APPLICATION AS TO WHY STAFF INCLUDED THE TERM CEMETERY IN THE 2019 APPLICATION, BUT THEY DIDN'T INCLUDE IT IN THE 2018 APPLICATION. NOW, THE REASON BEING, BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH, IT'S SUCH A HIGH PROFILE, UM, UH, ISSUE APPLICATION THAT WE WANNA BE CORRECT ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT WE DO, WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE DOT OUR I'S AND CROSS OUR T'S. UM, THE MENTION OF THE TERM CEMETERY IMPLICATES OTHER THINGS. IT'S NOT EASY ENOUGH JUST TO SAY CEMETERY. UH, THE, THE, UH, O H P BY THE UD C IS REQUIRED TO TELL US WHAT KIND OF CEMETERY THAT IS. I RESPECT THE INTELLIGENCE OF THE COMMISSION HERE. UM, ALSO UNDERSTANDING THROUGH THE RESEARCH THAT I'VE DONE, HOW DIFFICULT IT IS, UH, UH, I DON'T WANNA HOLD IT TO, TO THE COMMISSIONS, UH, AREA OF EXPERTISE OR RESPONSIBILITIES TO TELL US, UH, TO KNOW EVERYTHING THAT THERE'S, TO KNOW. UH, AND, AND BEING FAIRLY NEW TO THE COMMISSION, IT'S, IT'S, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF A LEARNING CURVE, UNDERSTANDING HOW THINGS WORK, PARTICULARLY RESPECT TO ALL THE OTHER CASES THAT WE GET. AND, YOU KNOW, THE ARGUMENTS WE'VE HAD OVER WOOD WINDOWS AND VERSUS THINGS, IT'S BEEN HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND. BUT WHAT I HAVE, UH, UH, COME TO THE CONCLUSION IS THAT, UH, RECOMMENDATION [02:35:01] IS BASED ON FINDINGS. AND THE RECOMMENDATION THEN SUPPORTS, UH, STAFF'S OPINION. THAT REALLY DOES WEIGH HEAVILY ON, ON, ON OUR, UH, DECISION MAKING PROCESSES, BECAUSE THEN THAT MEANS THAT STAFF HAS DONE THEIR HOMEWORK AND THAT WE CAN HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT WE'RE DELIBERATING PROPERLY. BUT IN THIS SITUATION, STAFF, UH, HAS ITS, UM, ITS FINDINGS AND, AND THEY JUST VERY QUICKLY SAY CEMETERY. AND THE U D C WOULD SAY OR SAYS THAT THE LEADER, THE, THE OFFICER OF O H P, UH, WHICH I IMAGINE IS THE, IS THE, UH, HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER IS REQUIRED TO TELL US WHAT KIND OF CEMETERY IT IS. IT'S NOT PROPER FOR US TO DECIDE WHERE THE TERM CEMETERY HAS BEEN MADE IN THE FINDINGS UNLESS THE, UM, THE CEMETERY HAS BEEN DEFINED. UH, I MADE SOME NOTES BECAUSE IT'S VERY HARD TO JUST SAY OFF, YOU KNOW, THE MEMORY HERE. SO, PRIOR TO INDIVI INDIVIDUALLY ADDRESSING ITEMS 1, 2, 3 OF THE APPLICANT'S 2019 REQUEST, IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LAST YEAR'S CASE AND THIS YEAR'S CASE. IN CONSIDERING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO APPLICATIONS, THE QUESTIONABLE INCONSISTENCY EXISTS IN THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION'S POSTED FINDINGS. THE H D R C STAFF FINDINGS DO NOT MENTION CEMETERY, WHEREAS IN, IN 18, WHEREAS IN 19, THEY DO, AND THEY CLEARLY, THEY, THEY CLEARLY MENTIONED THAT THEY DISCOVER THE EXISTENCE OF A CEMETERY IN FINDINGS, WHICH IS F THIS IS WHAT THE FINDINGS SAY. THE, THE SUBMITTED PHASE ONE LIMIT OF WORK OVERLAPS THE BOUNDARY OF THE CEMETERY ON THE GROUNDS OF THE ALAMO. THAT'S OUT OF THIS APPLICATION, WHICH TO ME, ALTERS THE CRITERIA FOR CONSIDERATION OF ITEMS PREVIOUSLY CONSIDERED FOR CONCEPTUAL PROVEN APPROVAL. BUT THAT ARE NOW BEFORE THE COMMISSION FOR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS. FURTHER, THE U D C SECTION 35 DASH 6 34, A CEMETERY STATES ALL APPLICANTS FOR PERMITS, EXCLUDING BURIAL PERMITS AFFECTING CEMETERIES, SHALL BE REFERRED TO THE CITY HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE FOR THE PURPOSE OF DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THE CEMETERY IS HISTORICALLY, CULTURALLY, ARCHITECTURALLY OR ARCHEOLOGICALLY EXCEPTIONAL OR SIGNIFICANT. AND THAT IF THE CEMETERY IS DETERMINED BY THE CITY HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICE TO BE EXCEPTIONAL OR SIGNIFICANT, ANY PROPOSED CHANGE EXCLUDING BURIALS MUST BE PRESENTED TO THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR APPROVALS OF PLANNED WORK. SO THE INCLUSION OF THE TERM CEMETERY IN THE FINDINGS OF THE H D R C CASE 2019 7 0 2, REQUIRES THAT THE CITY HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER PRESENTED DETERMINATION OF SIGNIFICANCE SHOULD THE CEMETERY BE CATEGORICALLY SIGNI SIGNIFICANT TO THIS H D R C FOR PROPER DELIBERATION WHEN CONSIDERING APPROVAL OF PLANNED WORK. THE U D C IS EXPLICIT IN THIS REQUIREMENT, AND THERE IS NO OPTION FOR FINDING OF NO DETERMINATION. SO, AS SUCH, APPLICATION H D R C CASE 20 19 7 0 2 IS INCOMPLETE AND IT CANNOT BE HEARD UNTIL THE CITY HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER ISSUES A FINDING THAT CONCLUDES THE CEMETERY IS SIGNIFICANT OR INSIGNIFICANT, SUCH FINDING MUST BE PRESENT, PRESENT. WE NOTING CEMETERY IN THE FINDINGS SO THAT THE H D R C HAS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF POTENTIAL IMPACT OR REVERSIBLE ADVERSE EFFECTS TO POTENTIAL CULTURAL ASSETS. THE U D C ALSO REMINDS US THAT THE HISTORIC DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS GOVERNED IN ITS RECOMMENDATIONS BY THE REGULATIONS SET FORTH IN THE STATE OF TEXAS LAW FOR CEMETERIES. SO, UM, IT REALLY IMPLICATES THE PROJECT AS A WHOLE. I, I, I, UM, UH, REALLY CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE, UM, THE CEMETERY IS MENTIONED IN THIS APPLICATION. I, IT, IT, IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE TO ME BECAUSE IT'S NOT MENTIONED IN THE OTHER APPLICATION IN 2018 WHERE YOU DECIDED TO MOVE THE CAF WITH INFORMATION THAT NOW IS RELEVANT. THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT IT BEING RELEVANT NOW, IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE IN, UH, UH, FOR THE APPLICATION BECAUSE HOW CAN WE, UH, MAKE A DECISION OR HEAR MOTION THAT IS NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE U D C, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT MAKES ME FEEL REAL UNCOMFORTABLE IS THE SELECTIVE KIND OF FINDINGS. I MEAN, WE HAVE BEEN, WE HAVE BEEN IN FRONT OF THIS COMMISSION, MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN I PLEASE CLARIFY? YES, PLEASE. UM, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 2018 AND 2019 IS THAT IN 2018, THE T H C HAD NOT DESIGNATED HONOR HORRIFICALLY. THIS THE AREA, THE SECTION THAT, UM, THAT HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS A CEMETERY. AND SO THAT INFORMATION HAPPENED IN 2019 AND WAS ADDED TO THE FINDING. BUT WHAT THE FINDINGS SIMPLY COMMUNICATES IS THAT THE PROJECT, AS IN ANY PROJECT OF THIS NATURE, IS GOING TO REQUIRE ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATIONS AND OTHER WORK THAT MAY KEEPS US IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TEXAS ANTIQUITIES CODE AND OTHER REQUIREMENTS RELATED TO ARCHEOLOGY. WELL, [02:40:01] CHAIRMAN, THERE'S A MOTION ADMIT, WELL, THIS IS DISCUSSION AND, AND MR. CHAIRMAN, THE, THE, THE, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT ANSWER, BUT AS A CEMETERY, THAT'S A DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO THE TERM THAT'S BEING USED IN THE NEWSPAPERS, AND THEY FOUND A BODY. YOU, YOU SEE, YOU SEE, THAT'S WHAT THE REAL CONTRADICTION IS, IS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE USING THIS PIECEMEALED A HUNDRED YEAR LONG PROCESS OF FINDING A BODY HERE, FINDING A BODY THERE. AND THE, AND THE INFORMATION IS, IS OVER THE COURSE OF A HUNDRED YEARS THROUGH ARTICLES IS IRREFUTABLE. THERE COMES A TIME IN HISTORY WHEN, WHEN, WHEN THE REGULATORY AGENCIES OR THE, OR THE, OR THE, OR THE COMMITTEE COMMISSIONS THAT HEAR THESE ISSUES, AT SOME POINT IN HISTORY, SOMEONE'S GONNA HAVE TO STOP CALLING IT A, A FOUND BODY OR A FOUND GRAVE. THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT, THAT IT'S A CEMETERY, AND THAT, THAT THE, THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, OR THE OFFICE OF O H P, WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO WHAT THEY REALLY SUPPOSED TO DO, UH, WHICH IS TO, TO DO A COMPLETE ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY OF THE AREA. AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT MAKES IT VERY COMPLICATED, VERY HARD TO DO A PROJECT WHEN YOU HAVE TO DO A THING LIKE THAT IN A TIMELY MANNER. BUT WHEN IS THAT GONNA HAPPEN? IS IT GONNA HAPPEN IF WE'RE, IF IF THERE'S A 50 YEAR LEASE, THAT WOULD MEAN THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE 50 YEARS OF, OF, OF, UH, OF YOU'RE GONNA DIG HOLES TO PLANT A HUNDRED TREES. AND WE KNOW IT'S A CEMETERY BECAUSE IT'S CALLED A CEMETERY IN THIS FINDINGS. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THE LAST ONE WHERE WE CAN, YOU KNOW, EAR EARS AND SAY, WELL, THEY FOUND A BODY. WELL, THEY FOUND A BODY, BUT THIS ONE CAUSES A CEMETERY. AND THE OFFICE OF O H P AT THIS POINT IS REQUIRED FOR, FOR QUALIFYING. WHAT KIND OF CEMETERY THAT THAT IS. AND THEN AFTER THAT, TELLING US HOW THAT, UH, UNDER THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE HEALTH CODES, WHETHER IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, ABANDONED OR, OR, OR WHATEVER, UH, QUALIFYING TERM IS USED, BUT ALL OF THIS CAN ONLY BE DONE ONCE O H P TELLS US WHETHER IT'S SIGNIFICANT, WHAT KIND OF SIGNIFICANCE IT, IT HAS. AND THEN AFTER THAT, THEN THEY PROBABLY ARE GONNA HAVE TO DO AN ARCHEOLOGICAL, UM, UM, UH, DISCOVERY. BECAUSE THEY SAID HERE, NOW I'M NOT SAYING THIS, THEY SAID IT, IT'S WRITTEN HERE. IT SAYS THAT IT OVERLAPS PHASE ONE OF WORK OVERLAPS THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CEMETERY. BUT YET THERE, BUT YET ALL THERE IS IS THE, ALL THEY'RE PRESENTING TO US IS THE, UH, TEXAS HISTORICAL SITES ATLAS. THEY, THEY WOULD BE THE, THE CITY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO A, A, A, AN OVERALL SURVEY. BECAUSE LOOK, THIS DOES AMOUNT, AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE OF THE WORD CEMETERY, AND, AND BECAUSE OF WHAT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS THROUGH THE PRESS, IT DOES, IT DOES AMOUNT TO DESECRATION OF, OF, UH, OF A CEMETERY. IT DOES. AND, AND MR. CHAIR, UM, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO, THAT IS PROBABLY THE MOST HORRIBLE THING WE CAN DO ONCE WE KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING IT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANTS ORDERS, PLEASE. COMMISSIONER CARPENTER. THANK YOU. BY THE WAY, I'M AN EIGHTH GENERATION TEXAN AND A DEC DESCENDANT OF WILLIAM WILLIAMS WHO FOUGHT IN THE BATTLE OF NACODOCHES. UM, QUICK QUESTION ON THE INTERPRETIVE, UH, THEMES THAT WAS PICKED UP ON BY, UH, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH HERE. I JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON ONE OF THOSE. UM, AND I, PLEASE REFRESH MY MEMORY. WILL THERE BE A PANEL DEDICATED TO THE, THE HISTORY, THE CREATION OF THE SENATE'S, HALF ITS, UH, CONTRIBUTORS, THE PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS, UH, ITS MOVEMENT, ITS ORIGINAL LOCATION AND THAT SORT OF THING. WILL THERE BE PART TO PART OF THAT INTEGRATE INTO THIS, TO TELL THAT STORY LAST, CORRECT. LAST SESSION WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, TWO DIFFERENT BUCKETS OF, OF CONTENT. ONE THAT WAS SPECIFIC ABOUT THE DEFENDERS, AND THEN ONE THAT WAS SPECIFIC ABOUT THE SENATE TAB AS A PIECE OF MEMORIAL ART. AND SOME EXAMPLES OF THOSE TALKED INTO, UH, SPECIFICS IN THE CREATION OF THE, THE RESEARCH THAT WENT INTO THE LIST OF DEFENDERS AND HOW THAT HAS BEEN, UH, AUGMENTED AND, AND VALIDATED OVER TIME. ALSO, THERE WAS, UH, EXAMPLE OF KINI AND WHAT INSPIRED HIM FOR THE SCULPTURES, BUT ALSO THE REST OF THE TEAM. AND EVEN THOUGH THE, NOT JUST THE, UM, NOT JUST THE CREATION OF THE CTA, BUT WHY A, WHY THE CTA WAS CHOSEN AS A FORM OF MEMORIAL ARTS OTHER THAN, UH, OF OTHER CHOICES. SO, SO YES. I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. WILL THERE BE INCLUSION OF THE CONTROVERSY OF THE RELOCATION OF THE, OF THE SENATE HALF AS WELL? YEAH. THAT, THAT HASN'T BEEN AS PART OF THE STORY THAT HASN'T BEEN CONSIDERED UP TILL NOW, BUT I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. SO, YOU KNOW, THE, WELL, THE REASON WHY I ASKED THAT, AND YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED IT BEFORE THAT I'VE WORKED ON CIVIL WAR, UH, BATTLEFIELD AND, [02:45:01] AND GRAVE, UH, SITES, AND WE WOULD NEVER EVEN THOUGHT OF MOVING A MARKER OR MONUMENT. I MEAN, IT JUST, THE, THE, THE, THE MAGNITUDE OF THAT MOVE. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I GREATLY REGRET HAVING NOT, UM, OPPOSED THAT MORE STRONGLY WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MASTER PLAN. BUT AT THAT TIME, YOU KNOW, IT WAS DISCUSSED, THE, THE MASTER PLAN BEING SOMETHING THAT WAS, UH, YOU KNOW, REALLY, UH, A, A ROADMAP RATHER THAN, YOU KNOW, UH, MANACLES THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW, LOCK US INTO SOMETHING THAT WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO, UH, TO CONSIDER AS MORE DETAILS COME FORTH. AND AT THAT TIME ALSO, THERE WASN'T REALLY, UM, A PRESENTATION OF COP'S, UH, WORDS AND THOUGHTS. I THINK, UH, EVEN OUR CHAIRMAN AT THAT TIME HAD DONE SOME RESEARCH OF HIS OWN. HE'D PRESENTED THAT IN HIS, UH, COMMENTS AND TESTIMONIAL TO THE COMMISSION THAT THE, UH, THE CURRENT PROPOSED LOCATION WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE LOCATIONS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT. BUT THERE WAS NEVER AT ANY TIME DISCUSSION ABOUT COP'S, UH, VEHEMENT, UH, OPPOSITION TO THAT. SO HAD I KNOWN THAT AT THAT TIME, I THINK I WOULD'VE BEEN MORE VEHEMENTLY OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF, OF MOVING THE SENATE HALF. AND SO I GREATLY REGRET THAT, AND I OWED APOLOGY TO MY FELLOW CITIZENS IN TEXANS. ANY, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? YEAH, I, I, MR. BOWMAN, I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS, UM, BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD. UM, SO JUST A COUPLE OF PRACTICAL THINGS WITH THIS APPLICATION THAT I, THAT I SEE AS, UM, JUST THINGS THAT I'M CURIOUS ABOUT, UH, FOR THE APPLICANT, IF THE APPLICANT CAN COME BACK UP. I'M SORRY, . UM, SO, UH, SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSING THINGS, UH, REGARDING THE, UH, TREES, THE AMOUNT OF NEW TREES VERSUS, UH, TREES THAT WE'RE, UH, KEEPING, UM, SPECIFICALLY AROUND THE SYNAP AREA. UM, SECOND THING IS, UM, ADDRESSING THE, UH, THE WAY THAT THE, THE DOCUMENTATION OF THE NEW, UM, MAYBE, UH, CHANGED THE DOCUMENTATION OF THAT AND THE PROCESS FOR WHICH THAT WILL BE BROUGHT BACK TO US TO KIND OF TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT BEFORE THAT'S PUT INTO PLACE. UM, AND THEN THE SECOND THING IS LIKE VIEWS FROM THE ALAMO TO THE SYNTA. I NOTICED THAT, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE NORTHWEST CORNER, UM, THERE'S A NEW LANDSCAPE AREA THERE. UM, SO I WANTED TO KIND OF KNOW IF THAT IS AN EXISTING TREE OR IF THAT'S NEW. ALL OF THAT'S PLANNED, SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF GO INTO THAT DETAIL. SURE. UH, AS PART OF THE OVERALL PLAN, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE EXISTING TREES WITH, UH, WITH AN ARBORIST BOTH ON THE INTERNAL TEAM AND THE CITY ARBORIST. THERE'S THREE TREES IN PARTICULAR IN THE PHASE ONE AREA THAT ARE PROPOSED TO, TO STAY. AND SO THE ONE, UH, LANDSCAPE BED THAT YOU'RE SPEAKING OF IN THE NORTHWEST CORNER IS ONE OF THOSE. UM, AND AGAIN, WE PROBABLY HAVE TO GET ADDITIONAL DETAIL TO POINT OUT ALL OF THE EXISTING TREES THAT ARE INTENDED TO REMAIN, BUT IT HAS BEEN PART OF THE, IT HAS BEEN PART OF THE, UM, PART OF THE DESIGN PROCESS AND PART OF THE DECISION ON HOW TO INCORPORATE THE LIVE OAKS AND, AND START TO DESIGN AROUND THE TREES THAT ARE IN SUCH GOOD SHAPE TO RETAIN. NOT ALL OF THEM ARE IN GOOD SHAPE, BUT YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AND SO I JUST, THE WAY THAT THE APPLICATION IS WORDED, IT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SAVING AS MANY TREES AS POSSIBLE AND THEN USING SOME TREES TO REPLACE DAMAGED TREES. MY CONCERN IS THE NUMBER OF NEW TREES ADDED AND THE EFFECTS THAT THOSE ROOTS WILL HAVE ON, UM, THE SYSTEMS UNDERNEATH THOSE. UM, ARE THERE ANY KIND ROOT BARRIER SYSTEMS THAT ARE GONNA BE DESIGNED TO, TO ISOLATE THESE TREES SO THAT ONCE THE ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDIES ARE DONE IN THOSE AREAS, THAT IT WILL BE ISOLATED TO THOSE AREAS AND NOT GROW OUT PAST THAT? IT, IT DOES MAKE SENSE RIGHT NOW. WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL, BUT THE INTENT OF MAKING SURE THAT THE ROOT, THAT, THAT THE ROOTS AND THE ROOT BALLS DON'T IMPACT THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT. IT, WE UNDERSTAND THE CONCERN, BUT CAN YOU, CAN YOU ADDRESS THE, UH, THE ADDITION OF THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO THE XENO THEFT? TO THE XENO THEFT? YEAH. LAST, UM, THE LAST PRESENTATION HAD A HANDFUL OF SLIDES THAT TALKED ABOUT REALLY ONE IN PARTICULAR THAT TALKED ABOUT THE INTENT TO ADD NAMES. NOT ON THE, NOT ON THE SCULPTURE THAT IS NOW, BUT ON THE, UM, THE VIRGIN MARBLE PANELS THAT ARE BELOW. WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, NOT ONLY A SEPARATE PANEL THAT IDENTIFIES THE RESEARCH AND PREVIOUS, BUT ALSO THE NEW RESEARCH THAT IDENTIFIES THE MISSPELLINGS OF THE NAMES AND THE ADDITIONAL NAMES THAT DESERVE TO BE THERE. UH, SO THE INTENT IS TO, TO HONOR THE NUN IN A SEPARATE PANEL THAT'S OFTEN TO THE SIDE, BUT TO BE BELOW THE EXACT FONT CHOICE, THE EXACT LAYOUT OF WHETHER IT'S GONNA BE IN A FREEZE THAT'S COMPLIMENTARY TO WHAT'S THERE NOW IS YET TO BE DETERMINED. WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO COME BACK AND REVIEW THAT WITH YOU, BUT THE INTENT IS TO ADDRESS THOSE MISSPELLED NAMES AND ADDITIONAL NAMES THERE ON THE LOWER, UH, PIECE OF THE MONUMENT, RATHER THAN AFFECTING THE MONUMENT AS IT'S WILL. [02:50:01] WILL THE NARRATIVE OF THAT BE BROUGHT BACK TO THIS COMMITTEE BEFORE IT'S APPROVED AND INSTALLED? YEAH, I THINK THE INTENT IS THE INTERPRETIVE, BOTH THE DESIGN OF THE PANELS AND WHATEVER THE INTERPRETIVE CONTENT. AND AT THAT TIME, YOU'LL, IT, IT WILL BE READY TO HAVE THE CONTENT, THE RESEARCH BEHIND THE CONTENT AND THE WAY IT'S EXPRESSED. UM, ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS WITH COMMENTS? I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, SIR. WOULD YOU SAY THAT, THAT IT'S CORRECT TO ASSUME THAT, THAT, UH, WHEN YOU PLANT A TREE, YOUR ASSUMPTION WOULD BE THAT THERE'S NOTHING BURIED UNDERNEATH IT UNTIL YOU HIT THE BONES? SO YOU'RE SAYING DO I ASSUME IT WOULD, DO WE HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IS IN THE GROUND? NO, PRIOR, PRIOR TO DIGGING? THAT'S WHAT YOUR QUESTION IS, RIGHT? NO, NO. IT'S MORE THAT YOUR, YOUR, YOUR, YOUR FORM OF PLANNING WOULD SAY THAT WHEN YOU DREW A TREE TO GO IN A PARTICULAR LOCATION, THAT YOUR CONCERN AS TO WHETHER THERE WOULD BE BONES IN THAT LOCATION WOULD NOT BE A CONSIDERATION UNTIL AFTER YOU DUG THE HOLE AND FOUND THE BONES. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? NO, NOT ENTIRELY. SO, SO THEN THE, THEN, THEN YOU WOULD BE AGREEING THAT YOU, YOU'D PLANT A TREE KNOWING THAT YOU'RE GONNA HIT BONES? NO, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIVE QUESTION. THERE'S AN ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY DONE BEFORE, LIKE ANY OTHER PROJECT THAT WE HAVE APPROVED BEFORE. NO, THAT'S, THAT'S, WE'RE GOING FURTHER. THAT'S NOT MY UNDERSTANDING. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT, THAT, THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN, UH, AN ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY. IT SAYS DONE OF THE ENTIRE, IT SAYS IT'LL BE REQUIRED COMMISSIONER, IT SAYS AN AN ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY WILL BE REQUIRED APPLICATION TO THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION FOR THE ARCHEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED, CORRECT. FOR THIS AREA. AND, AND WE ARE GONNA RECEIVE A, A COPY OF THE BOUNDARIES OF, OF WHATEVER IS FOUND AS A CEMETERY PRIOR TO ANY WORK BEING DONE. STAFF CAN CLARIFY THAT THAT IS NOT FOR OUR, IN OUR AGENDA, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ITEM THAT'S FOR US TODAY. NO, NO. SURE. IT IS, IT'S IN F IT'S IN FINDINGS ORDER. IT'S IN, IT'S IN FINDINGS ORDER, PLEASE. THAT, THAT, I, I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO, TO MY POINT, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER'S POINT OVER HERE IS THAT SHE SAYS IT'S NOT IN THE APPLICATION, IN THE FINDINGS, IT'S FINDINGS. IT SAYS IT'LL BE SUBMITTED TO O H P, NOT TO US. IT, I'M, WHAT I'M SAYING IS NO, IT DOESN'T B OR NOT REQUIRED TO SEE A REPORT. IT IS STATES ON THE FINDINGS THAT ART CLERICAL CONSULT SHALL SUBMIT THE SCOPE OF WORK TO THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. I'M TALKING ABOUT MOVING ON TO WHAT'S IN OUR AGENDA TODAY. IT IS INCLUDED IN THE FINDING. WELL, I'M, I'M, I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT SITUATION THAT WE HAVE HERE THAT HAS LASTING CONSEQUENCES. SHOULD, SHOULD WE CREATE A SITUATION THAT CREATES AN IRREVERSIBLE SITUATION WHERE WE'VE, WE'VE JUST DONE SOMETHING THAT CAN'T, WE CAN'T TAKE BACK. YOU'D, YOU'D BE SURPRISED. UH, UH, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, MR. CHAIRMAN, THE LEVEL OF DELIBERATION WE GO THROUGH OVER A WOOD WINDOW, IT'S, IT'S, IF YOU CAME HERE AND TRIED TO PUT A VINYL CLAD WOOD WINDOW IN YOUR BUILDING, WE'D BE HERE FOR AN HOUR. THIS, THIS IS, THIS IS A, A MAJOR SITUATION. WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M ASKING IS, BEFORE YOU PLANTED THE TREES, DID YOU, DID YOU, BEFORE YOU PLANTED THE TREES, DID YOU PLANT THE TREES? KNOWING WHAT, WHAT THE AB ABSOLUTE BOUNDARIES ARE FROM AN ARCHEOLOGICAL, UH, UH, STUDY COMPLETED AND WE'RE, WE'RE FOLLOWING THE, WE'RE WE'RE FOLLOWING THE PROCESS TO GET THE ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY DONE BEFORE THE, BEFORE DIGGING, DETERMINE THERE'S A MOTION AND A SECOND. AND I, BUT MY UNDER UNDERSTANDING IS OFF THE SUBJECT, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IN, IN, IN ORDER TO, TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU'RE GONNA CREATE ANY ADVERSE EFFECTS, THAT IT'S PRUDENT TO DO A COMPLETE, UH, STUDY AND LOCATE THE BOUNDARIES OF THE CEMETERY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. THAT IS PART OF THEIR, AND THE CEMETERY WAS NOT IN THE 2018 APPLICATION. IT IS IN THE 2019 APPLICATION. THAT'S WHY IT'S AN ISSUE RIGHT NOW. UH, COMMISSIONER, I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS WHAT IS PROPOSED HERE IS A, A, AN APPROPRIATE ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY THAT WOULD PROCEED ANY PHYSICAL ACTION ON THE SITE, UH, AS REQUIRED. I MEAN, THAT'S WHY IT'S IN THE FINDINGS AND THE 2019 FINDINGS IS TO, FOR THAT POINT. EXACTLY. AND I, I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE GOING AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M SENSITIVE TO THE EFFECT THAT THESE TREES WOULD HAVE ON ANY POTENTIAL BURIAL SITE AS WELL. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO, BUT I, I DO IT, IT ABSOLUTELY HAS TO HAPPEN AS A PART OF THIS APPLICATION, AS, AS PROPOSED, THE ARCHEOLOGICAL STUDY HAS TO HAPPEN. UH, AND, AND, AND FELLOW COMMISSIONER, I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS, BUT MY, MY STUDY OF THE U D C SAYS THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S A COUPLE OF STEPS THAT ARE MISSING, AND ONE STEP THAT'S MISSING IS YOU CAN'T JUST SAY CEMETERY OR THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION CAN'T. WE CAN, BUT THEY CAN'T. THEY HAVE TO TELL US WHAT KIND OF CEMETERY IT IS AND, AND, AND WE'RE GONNA MAKE [02:55:01] A DECISION. THE, THE U D C IS THE ONE THAT'S TELLING US THAT O H P HAS TO QUALIFY THAT WORD CEMETERY. THAT'S WHAT'S A BIG DEAL. THEY HAVE TO QUALIFY THAT WORD CEMETERY. YOU CAN'T JUST WRITE CEMETERY IF YOU'RE O H P. YOU HAVE TO SAY, UH, CEMETERY OF, OF ARCHITECTURAL CEMETERY OF CULTURAL CEMETERY OF ARCHEOLOGICAL SIGNIFICANCE. YOU HAVE TO, OKAY, COMMISSIONER, LET ME ASK LEGAL, ARE WE, CAN WE PROCEED WITH OUR MOTION BASED ON, UH, WHAT HAS BEEN SAID AND ASKED OF, OF THE COMMISSION AND WHAT'S IN THE FINDINGS? THERE'S A MOTION ALREADY THAT HAS BEEN SECOND ON THE FLOOR. ANY OTHER MOTIONS WOULD HAVE TO BE MADE. UM, AT THIS POINT, NO VOTE HAS BEEN TAKEN ON THAT MOTION. I'M NOT SURE OF THE COMMISSION. THE MOTION CAN MOVE FORWARD. YES. THANK YOU. WELL, THEN I WOULD ASK MY, THE, THE, THE MAKER OF THE MOTION TO ENTERTAIN A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT THAT WOULD END THE MOTION WITH THE PHRASE, UH, ONCE THE OFFICE OF PRESERVATION HAS QUALIFIED, UM, A CEMETERY AS PER U D C, WHICH MR. CHAIR, THE MOTION IS FLAWED AND IT'S, AND IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED, WE, I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN HAVE A MOTION. IT'S FLAWED ORDER, PLEASE. I'M GONNA ASK MY, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER TO RESCIND A MOTION. UH, I BELIEVE THE, THAT THE MOTION, UH, AS MADE IMPLIES CONFORMANCE WITH FEDERAL AND STATE LAW. IT'S OUTLINED IN THE U D C ABOVE IT, SO I WILL NOT BE AMENDING THE MOTION FOR APPROVAL. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR APPROVAL. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS WISH TO SPEAK? AND ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYE. ROLL CALL FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH? AYE. GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ NAYYY. OLA. AYE. MARTINEZ FLORES. AYE. CARPENTER NAY, RUBY? AYE. BOWMAN? AYE. ZER? AYE. UNE NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK EVERYONE FOR COMING. HOWARD, WE DO HAVE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS. UM, WE DO HAVE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS. WE ASK THE, UM, AUDIENCE WHO IS NOT STAYING TO PLEASE EXIT QUIETLY SO THAT THE OTHER APPLICANTS CAN COME IN QUIETLY. YEAH. OH, EDWARD, IF YOU CAN PUT UP THE, THE, UM, THE LIST OF B ITEMS ON THE SCREEN FOR US. SORRY, WE HAVE ONE MORE A ITEM. SO, EDWARD, CAN YOU READ A SEVEN [A-7 19-9259 Address/Description: 151 E TRAVIS ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-715 RIO District: RIO-3 Applicant: Patrick Christensen Request: Encroachment into the Right-of-Way City Council Dist.: 1] INTO THE RECORD PLEASE? AGENDA ITEM A SEVEN H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 7 1 15, 1 51 EAST TRAVIS. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ENCROACH INTO THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER WALK RIGHT OF WAY BY APPROXIMATELY THREE FEET, 11 INCHES. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT WILL ENCROACH INTO THE RIGHT OF WAY BY THREE FEET, 11 INCHES. THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THAT THE ENCROACHMENT WILL BE LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 24 FEET ABOVE THE SIDEWALK AT THE RIVERWALK LEVEL. STAFF RECOMMENDS, EXCUSE ME, STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH C STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT NO ENCROACHMENT SHOULD OCCUR ABOVE THE RIVER CHANNEL OR THE RIGHT OF WAY AT THE RIVERWALK LEVEL. DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT FOR THIS ITEM? OKAY. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. PATRICK CHRISTENSEN, THREE 10 SOUTH, UH, ST. MARY'S, SUITE 2,700. HERE WITH, UH, CHRIS FELDMAN, THE ARCHITECT. WE'VE GOT SOME EXHIBITS WE'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU. UM, IF YOU RECALL, WE CAME FOR A PRELIMINARY REVIEW OF THE HOTEL PLANS, UH, ON THE ENCROACHMENT ISSUE. THERE WAS SOME CANVASSING THAT HAD TO BE DONE, AND STAFF RECOMMENDED THAT WE COME TO YOU TO DISCUSS THE, UH, WELL COME ON, UH, TO DISCUSS THE ENCROACHMENT ISSUE. AND I'VE GOT CHRIS FELMAN WHO WILL KIND OF GO THROUGH SOME OF OUR EXHIBITS THAT THEY'RE PULLING UP RIGHT NOW. OKAY. CAN STAFF CLOSE THE DOORS? THANK YOU. EX EXCUSE ME, PLEASE. [03:00:02] HEY, MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN WE HAVE ORDER? YES. ORDER PLEASE IN THE AUDIENCE? WOULD Y'ALL PLEASE MOVE IT TO THE LOBBY? WOULD Y'ALL PLEASE MOVE IT TO THE LOBBY? GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I'M CHRIS FELDMAN, UH, THE ARCHITECT. AND WE WANTED TO WALK THROUGH SORT OF SOME OF THE, THE CHANGES, UM, AND FURTHER EXPLAIN THE OVERHANG. UM, GIVEN OUR LAST MEETING AND SOME OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, THE SECTION SHOWN HERE, UM, IF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DIMENSION, IF YOU COULD ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT. SO THE DASH LINE AND THE FIVE FEET IS THE ORIGINAL PROJECTION OR OVERHANG AT ITS AT ITS, UH, UM, OR THE MAXIMUM, I GUESS THE SITE IS A, IS A, IS A KIND OF MORE TRI TRIANGULAR SHAPE. AND SO THAT'S AT THAT WE'RE SHOWING THE WORST CASE SCENARIO HERE. UH, SINCE, UH, THE FIRST RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE TO, UM, FROM O H P WERE TO, UH, REDUCE OR ELIMINATE, UM, AND WE HAVE WORKED AT THE PLAN AND REFINED IT AND DONE OUR BEST TO REDUCE IT WITHOUT OVERLY COMPROMISING THE INTERIOR PLAN. 'CAUSE IT IS A WEIRD SHAPE. THE, UNFORTUNATELY, THE TRIANGULAR PIECE OF IT GETS SUPER PINCHED THE MORE WE PULL IN AND PULL IN. UM, SO WE HAVE REDUCED IT, UM, YEAH, I GUESS A TOTAL OF 22 INCHES AT THIS POINT. UM, I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT WE WANTED TO FULLY EXPLAIN AS WELL, UH, IN THE RISK RECENT STAFF FINDINGS OR OR RECOMMENDATION WAS, UM, THE OVERHANG ENCROACHING INTO, UM, I BELIEVE THE TERM WAS THE, UH, SEE, I'LL READ IT HERE, UM, INTO THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER WALK RIGHT OF WAY. UM, AND SO WHAT WE WANTED TO EXPLAIN HERE WITH BY FURTHER REFINING THE SECTION OF THE EXISTING RIVER WALK WALL IS, UM, IS SORT OF THAT LOCATION. OUR PROPERTY LINE FALLS RIGHT ABOUT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT. UM, AND SO, UH, AT THE PEDESTRIAN LEVEL, AT THE RIVER WALK, THE OVERHANG IS ESSENTIALLY IN TERMS OF THE SPACE, UH, THAT THAT COULD BE ACCESSED, EXCLUDING THAT LITTLE LANDSCAPE STRIP, WHICH IS EXISTING IS APPROXIMATELY ONE FOOT 10. UM, AND, UH, SO AGAIN, JUST SORT OF TO TO TO FURTHER KIND OF REFINE AND EXPLAIN THAT THAT'S AT ITS WORST CASE. AT THE OTHER SIDE, IT'S, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY ABOUT A FOOT LESS, SO MAYBE A 10 INCH OVERHANG. UH, THE OTHER THING TO, TO EXPLAIN IS, IS IT'S UP ABOUT 26 FEET. UM, SO IF YOU CAN IMAGINE SOMETHING TWICE AS TALL AS THIS, THAT'S, THAT'S PROTRUDING OUT ABOUT 22 INCHES. UM, THAT'S BASICALLY THE PEDESTRIAN EXPERIENCE. UM, WE ALSO WANTED TO, UH, IN ADDITION TO THIS SECTION, IF YOU COULD GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, POINT OUT SOME OF THE, UH, EXCERPTS FROM THE DOWNTOWN DESIGN GUIDELINES, UH, ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES THAT REINFORCE THE RETAIL CHARACTER OF THE GROUND FLOOR, STREET AND RIVER WALL AND OR HELP DEFINE THE PEDESTRIAN ENVIRONMENT ALONG THE SIDEWALKS SUCH AS CANOPIES, AWNINGS, AND OVERHANGS ARE ENCOURAGED AND SHOULD BE INTEGRAL TO THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE BUILDING. UM, WHEN DESIGNING THIS FACADE, I MEAN, OUR, OUR LAST THING WE WANT TO DO IS JUST HAVE A LONG, TALL BLANK WALL. AND I THINK IT WAS EVEN MENTIONED IN SOME OF THE, THE COMMISSIONER COMMENTS THE FIRST TIME WE WERE HERE IS PROVIDING SOME OF THAT RELIEF, SOME OF THAT SETBACK. AND SO AT THIS WORST CASE, IT'S WHERE WE HAVE AN OFFSET IN THE FACADE TO HAVE A CHANGE IN MATERIAL AND ARTICULATE THAT FACADE. SO TO GIVE IT MORE INTEREST. UM, I THINK THE OTHER THING IS FROM, FROM THE U D C, UH, THIS, THIS, THE LOCATION OF THIS SITE IS AT A BEND IN THE RIVER. UM, AND SO FROM THE U D C, UM, THERE IS A SECTION ON AN ARCHITECTURAL FOCAL POINT. UH, AND I'LL, AND I'LL JUST BRIEFLY OR TRY TO PARAPHRASE THAT, BUT WHEN A PROPERTY IS SITUATED IN SUCH A MANNER AS TO APPEAR AT THE TERMIST AT THE END OF A STREET OR A PROMINENT CURVE IN THE RIVER CREEK, WHICH THIS DOES, UH, THE BUILDING SHALL INCORPORATE INTO, INTO ITS DESIGN AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE THAT WILL PROVIDE A FOCAL POINT AT THE END OF THE VIEW. AND THEN IT GOES ON TO LIST, UM, INCLUDING, UM, YOU KNOW, RECESS TO PROJECTING BALCONIES, ENTRANCES. AND SO, AGAIN, THAT, THAT FURTHER ARTICULATION OF THE FACADE, WE FEEL LIKE IS EVEN MORE, UM, UH, IMPERATIVE ON THE DESIGN HERE BECAUSE IT IS, IS AT THIS BEND IN THE RIVER. UM, AND, AND SO YEAH, WE CAN SH WE CAN SHARE THAT. SO THIS IS, UM, THIS, THIS RENDERING WAS, WAS AN EARLY CONCEPTUAL RENDERING THAT WAS PRESENTED IN THE INITIAL PACKAGE. UM, ACTUALLY SINCE THIS NOW WE HAVE REDUCED IT. UM, IF YOU CAN SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE, THAT'S WHERE THE FACADE [03:05:01] IS ARTICULATED AND WHERE IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, AT ITS GREATEST, THE, THE OVERHANG IS GREATEST. WE'VE SINCE PULLED THAT BACK ANOTHER 22 INCHES. UM, AND FURTHER DEFINED WITH OUR, WITH OUR CIVIL ENGINEERS, UM, WHAT THE, UH, THE SHAPE OF THAT EXISTING RIVERWALK WALL IS AS SHOWN ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN. UM, AND, AND IT'S ACTUALLY EVEN HIGHER THAN AS SHOWN IN THIS RENDERING. UM, AND SO WE WOULD, WE WOULD, UH, ARGUE THAT, UM, THE, THE CHANGE IN PLANE WITH THE FACADE, UH, IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER, ESPECIALLY BEING AT THIS PROMINENT BEND IN THE RIVER. UH, AND THAT GIVEN THE SHAPE OF THE SITE, TRYING TO ELIMINATE IT COMPLETELY, UH, UM, HAS SOMEWHAT DISASTROUS EFFECTS ON THE LAYOUT, UH, OF THE INTERIOR OF IT. UM, AND AGAIN, THE, THE RECOMMENDATIONS INITIALLY WHEN WE CAME WAS TO REDUCE OR ELIMINATE, AND WE'VE DONE ALL WE CAN TO REDUCE IT. UM, AND SO WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE COMPLIED WITH, UM, WITH AHPS AND WITH THE COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS THE FIRST GO ROUND. UM, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS, UH, BEFORE WE GET QUESTIONS, WE DO HAVE CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. YES. VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE. HELLO, MY NAME IS VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE, 91 18 FAIRLAND, UH, AND I'M SPEAKING FOR THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY PATTY SCIENCE PRESIDENT, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OPPOSES THE CONTINUAL ENCROACHMENT OF NEW BUILDINGS ONTO THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, ESPECIALLY ALONG OUR FAMOUS RIVER WALK. THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROJECT AT 1 51 EAST TRAVIS NOW REQUESTS AN OVERHANG OF THREE FEET, 11 INCHES ABOVE THE RIVER WALK. THIS IS A MATERIAL CHANGE TO THE PROJECT, YET THE APPLICANT HAS NOT PROVIDED A SHADES AND SHADOW STUDY TO SHOW HOW MUCH MORE THIS OVERHANG WILL AFFECT THE PUBLIC SIDEWALK. GIVEN THE INFORMATION PRESENTED, WE OPPOSE THIS CHANGE. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, PATTY ZZ, PRESIDENT. THANK YOU. IF I COULD, IF I COULD ADDRESS THAT COMMENT. WE DID SUBMIT SHADE AND SHADOW STUDY, UM, WHICH WAS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WAS APPROVED, UM, UH, FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL IN THE PREVIOUS DESIGN. AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY SHOWING A WORSE CASE THAN WHAT WE'RE SHOWING NOW. SO IF ANYTHING, WE'VE IMPROVED IT, UH, SINCE THE INITIAL SUBMITTAL. AND WE HAVE, WE HAVE SUBMITTED THE SHADE AND SHADOW STUDY, NOT THAT WE'RE IGNORING YOU, BUT I THINK WE'RE A LITTLE NUMB. YEAH, I AM TOO. SO GIVE US A, GIVE US A FEW MINUTES. UNDERSTOOD. SOMETHING I THINK THE APPLICANT, UM, I REMEMBER APPROVING, I MEAN, SEEING THE FINAL, AND, AND I THINK BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TODAY IS JUST TO GET THAT, YOU KNOW, AMENDED WITH THAT ENCROACHMENT. UM, TO ME IT'S, I DON'T MIND IT. I JUST FEEL IT'S KIND OF A, WE ARE ON THE RIVER LEVEL AND I DON'T KNOW IF 26 FEET IS ENOUGH TO KIND OF NOT HAVE AN IMPACT. UM, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO AND, AND THE DESIGN, AND I LIKE THAT PART. SO I'M KIND OF MAYBE A LITTLE BIT IN THE SENSE OF RIGHT NOW. UM, I'LL PROBABLY HEAR FROM OTHER COMMISSIONERS, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE, UM, THE RURAL WALK IS, I MEAN, THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT, THAT RULE. AND, AND I, AND I TEND TO SAY IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT BECAUSE YOU SAY IT'S MINIMAL AND I, AND I CAN SEE THAT IT'S MINIMAL, BUT HOW WOULD THAT, YOU KNOW, BE FOR OTHER PROJECTS AND HOW WOULD THAT, YOU KNOW, SO I KIND OF HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THAT ONE. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF ON THIS ONE. ON, UH, THE CANTILEVER ENCROACHMENT OVER THE RIVER CHANNEL. IT'S REFERENCING UDC 35 6 72. THAT'S A STANDARD, CORRECT? NOT A GUIDELINE. IT'S CORRECT. AND I CAN READ THE LANGUAGE IF YOU'D LIKE THAT YOU DO, SO PLEASE. YES. UM, I'LL ACTUALLY READ ALL OF FINDING C UM, FOR CONTEXT, IT'S NOTED IN FINDING A, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ENCROACH INTO THE SAN ANTONIO RIVER WALK, RIVER WALK RIGHT OF WAY BY APPROXIMATELY THREE FEET, 11 INCHES. THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THAT THE ENCROACHMENT WILL BE LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 24 FEET ABOVE THE SIDEWALK AT THE RIVER WALK LEVEL. [03:10:01] THE U D C SECTION 35 6 72 A TWO NOTES THAT NO STRUCTURE BUILDING ROOF OR SKYWALK MAY BE CONSTRUCTED OVER THE RIVER OR CREEK CHANNEL OR BYPASS CHANNEL, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF STRUCTURES FOR FLOOD CONTROL, OPEN AIR, PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES AT GROUND, RIVER LEVEL, AND STREET BRIDGES. THE RIVER CHANNEL IS, THE NATURAL COURSE OF THE RIVER IS MODIFIED FOR FLOOD CONTROL PURPOSES, AND THE PERSHING CA CATALPA DITCH SAP PINES HAVE PROPOSED CANTILEVER TO BE INAPPROPRIATE AND INCONSISTENT WITH THE U D C. CAN I PROVIDE A COMMENT TO THAT? SURE. COULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT PAGE? EDWARD? UH, THE SECTION ON THE RIGHT IS, IS PULLED FROM THE U D C AND ALTHOUGH IT SAYS SAN PEDRO CREEK, IT'S, IT'S SORT OF, IF YOU READ IT, IF YOU READ IT, IT KIND OF ADDRESSES RIVER AND SAN PEDRO CREEK. COULD YOU ZOOM IN JUST A LITTLE BIT? UM, AND SO STAFF'S FINDINGS, YOU KNOW, CLAIM THAT IT ENCROACHES OVER THE, THE RIVER CHANNEL. UM, AND IT'S REALLY MOREOVER THE EO AND ACTUALLY EVEN ONLY ONE FOOT 10 OVER THAT. UM, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S SORT OF WHAT WE'RE HERE TO HOPEFULLY GAIN SUPPORT AND CLARIFICATION ON. UM, CAN STAFF ELABORATE ON THE DEFINITION OF THE RIVER CHANNEL HERE? STAFF WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY, UM, THAT, THAT SECTION NOTES, UM, COURSE OF THE RIVER AS MODIFIED FOR FLOOD CONTROL PURPOSES. SO I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE ACCIDENT, UH, RETAINING WALL THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THE ENCROACHMENT IS RANGING BETWEEN WHAT ARE THE, WHAT'S THE BIGGEST ENCROACHMENT AMOUNT? ONE FOOT 10 ULTIMATELY COMMISSIONERS. UM, IT IS A LITTLE UP FOR INTERPRETATION. UM, OUR INTERPRETATION IS THAT IT SHOULD BE AVOIDED. UM, BUT WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING TO YOU FOR RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS ITEM. I MEAN, MY THOUGHTS ON THE DESIGN, I, I APPRECIATE THE DESIGN. I THINK IT'S WELL THOUGHT OUT. UM, I DON'T TAKE ISSUE WITH ANY OF THE ELEMENTS THAT YOU'VE PRE PRESENTED, NOR THE JUSTIFICATION FOR PRESENTING OF, IT'S JUST THIS OVERHANG OVER THE RIVER CHANNEL, UH, CHANNEL ALONE THAT IS GIVING ME PAUSE. AND, UM, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S THAT MUCH ROOM FOR INTERPRETATION ON THIS. I THINK STAFF HAS THIS, RIGHT? I THINK APPROVAL OF IT WOULD, UH, SET A BAD PRECEDENT. SO I MOVE FOR DENIAL. SECOND, I HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND FOR DENIAL. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I JUST WANNA TELL THE APPLICANT THAT I WOULD IN, UM, I WOULD ENTERTAIN IT COMING BACK MAYBE WITH A CHANGE OF DESIGN. UH, RIGHT NOW, I WOULD PROBABLY, UM, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IF AGREE WITH THE MOTION WOULD STAFF, UH, IF WE WERE TO REDUCE IT, SAY BACK TO THE FACE WHERE IT'S NOT PROTRUDING PAST THE, THE LOWER END OF THAT WALL. SO IT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE ONE REDUCE IT, THE ONE FOOT 10. I, I, I HAVE A, A LITTLE BIT OF A THOUGHT HERE. . SO THE PROBLEM WITH THE OVERHANG ISN'T THE IDEA OF A CANOPY AWNING OR OVERHANG, THE PROBLEM IS THE EXTERIOR WALL FACE THAT IS OVER THAT EDGE. IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO MOVE THAT EXTERIOR WALL FACE, EVEN IF BALCONY EDGES, AWNINGS OR CANOPIES EXTEND TO THE, OUT TO WHERE YOU HAVE THEM. SO LONG AS IT'S NOT THE EXTERIOR WALL, IN MY MIND, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT CLEANS IT UP. UM, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING A MOTION FOR DENIAL. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR DENIAL. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AND TO APPLICANT CAN COME BACK. RIGHT. WELL, TO BE CLEAR, THE PROJECT HAS RECEIVED CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THAT SETBACK BE MET. AND SO THE PROJECT CAN STILL MOVE FORWARD JUST WITH THAT. BUT CAN, CAN WE JUST ONE CLARIFICATION. THE, UH, BECAUSE STAFF'S COMMENT WAS ABOUT ENCROACHING INTO THE RIVER CHANNEL, UM, WOULD THE COMMISSION ENTERTAIN IF WE WERE TO REDUCE IT, THE ONE FOOT 10 SO THAT IT DOESN'T ENCROACH INTO THE RIVER CHANNEL? UM, AS DEFINED IN THE U D C? UH, I THINK YOU'LL HAVE TO COME BACK AND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS IT THEN. I THINK IT'S CLEAR. THE MOTION TODAY DOES NOT SUPPORT ENCROACHMENT INTO ANY OF THE RIGHT OF WAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, WE CAN MOVE ON TO ITEMS ON THE BE AGENDA. WE THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR BEING PATIENT TODAY. UM, THE FIRST, UH, ITEM HEARD TOOK A LITTLE LONGER THAN WE THOUGHT. UM, EDWARD, IF YOU WILL PULL UP THE, UM, ACTUALLY FIRST WE HAVE A CITIZEN [Public Comments] WHO SIGNED IN FOR GENERAL COMMENTS ON THE BE AGENDA. LULU FRANCOIS. LULU WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO, TO SPEAK. YES. HI, UH, MY NAME IS LULU FRANCOIS, 17 NOLAN. UM, I'M HERE TODAY TO SPEAK, UH, TO ONE CASE IN PARTICULAR THAT WAS ON THE NOVEMBER 6TH AGENDA. THAT CASE INVOLVED MICHAEL PETTIS OF MP TWO URBAN DEVELOPMENT AND HIS REQUEST TO INSTALL [03:15:01] ALUMINUM WINDOWS FOR HIS PROPERTIES LOCATED AT FOUR 15 NORTH MESQUITE 1126 EAST CROCKETT AND 1 0 5 TO ONE 13 NORTH BROWN. ACCORDING TO THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION'S OWN GUIDELINES, WOOD WINDOWS, OR ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS ARE THE MATERIAL MATERIALS ALLOWED TO BE USED FOR BOTH NEW AND EXISTING HOUSING THROUGHOUT THE COASTA HISTORICAL DISTRICT. BUT FOR SOME REASON, O H P RECOMMENDED APPROVAL TO ALLOW MICRO BED OF MP TWO URBAN OF DEVELOPMENT TO INSTALL ALUMINUM WINDOWS IN PLACE OF THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. AND MY QUESTION IS, WHY, WHY DID O H P RECOMMEND APPROVAL TO ALLOW MP TWO URBAN DEVELOPMENT TO BILL WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS WHEN THEY HAVE STRONGLY RECOMMENDED AGAINST OTHER, ALLOWING OTHER INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS AND DEVELOPERS TO DO THE SAME THING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT, FOR INSTANCE, THE 1950S IN WHICH THOSE WERE ORIGINALLY BUILT WITH, WITH, UH, ALUMINUM WINDOWS. I MAY REPEAT A REQUEST TO GET AN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION, AND NO ONE FROM O H P MANAGEMENT FEELS IT NECESSARY TO PROVIDE ANYTHING OTHER THAN A GENERIC CASES ARE REVIEWED AND APPROVED ON INDIVIDUAL CASE BY CASE BASIS, TYPES OF RESPONSE. SO IT MAKES ME WONDER WHY THIS WAS APPROVED. SO, BECAUSE IN FACT, ON THAT SAME AGENDA, YOU HAD MULTIPLE CASES OF HOUSES THAT WERE WANTING TO IMPROVE OR REPLACE WINDOWS, AND THEY WERE ALL REQUIRED TO HAVE WOOD OR, UM, UH, ALUMINUM CLA WOOD WINDOWS. I'VE BEEN ATTENDING H D R C MEETINGS SINCE 2016 AND HAVE REPEATEDLY SEEN O H P AND H D R C REQUIRE, UM, HOMEOWNERS AND DEVELOPERS TO HAVE THIS TYPE OF WINDOW TO MEET WHAT IS ORIGINALLY PART OF WHAT IS, HAS ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THE GUIDELINES. YOU CANNOT ALLOW ONE DEVELOPER TO SKIRT THE REQUIREMENTS AND NOT PROVIDE A REASON AS TO WHY HE WAS ALLOWED TO DO THIS. PEOPLE START MAKING FALSE ASSUMPTIONS. MAYBE THEY WERE NOT TRUE. I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S TIME. BUT PEOPLE START MAKING ASSUMPTIONS AS TO WHY FAVORITISM WAS SHOWN TO THIS ONE INDIVIDUAL. AND THIS IS WHAT MAKES PEOPLE START SHOUTING ABOUT THE LACK OF FAIRNESS IN THIS PROCESS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE HAVE 21 ['B' ITEMS CONSENT AGENDA] CASES ON THE, UM, B ITEM CONSENT AGENDA. UH, WE HAVE NO SPEAKER SIGNED IN TO SPEAK. UM, DO ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO PULL A CASE? IF NOT, WE'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF CONSENT. AGENDA ITEMS B ONE THROUGH B 21 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. YOU'RE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 1 0 5 PLAZA AIS ONE 10, OR EXCUSE ME, 1110 VIRGINIA FOR TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. 1611 NORTH ALAMO FOR TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. 2 0 1 WEST HOLLYWOOD TWO 12 CAMARGO FOR TAX CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. 2242 WEST MISSILE TOW, 2311 WEST GRAMERCY PLACE FOR CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. 3 28 EAST SATCH 5 1 9 NOLAN 5 27 5 31 CENTER AND 3 0 9 NORTH HACKBERRY 6 0 1 BURNETT 7 0 1 MONTANA FOR CERTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION. A TWO A 21 MASON AND MASON STREET PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IMPROVEMENTS 9 26 LAMAR 9 42 SUTTON, AND THE 1 21 EAST WOODLAWN. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. A PUBLIC NOTICE YARD SIGN HAS BEEN PLACED ON YOUR PROPERTY. IF YOU HAVE NOT RETRIEVED IT, PLEASE DO SO AND RETURN TO THE O H P COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. ORI, SHOULD I REREAD THE, UH, CHAIRMAN'S STATEMENT SINCE IT MENTIONS TUBMAN TI SPEAKING TIME PER SPEAKER? UM, I'LL JUST EXPLAIN, UM, FOR THE INTEREST OF TIME, UM, THE CHAIRMAN SETS THE SPEAKING TIMES AT THE TOP OF EACH HEARING, UM, BECAUSE OF THE LENGTH OF TODAY'S MEETING, UM, WE ARE ASKING THAT, UH, SPEAKERS LIMIT THEIR SPEAKER TIMES TO TWO MINUTES. IT'S, IT'S, IT IS FAIR. IT WAS SET AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING AND IT IS, IT IS WELL WITHIN THE RIGHT OF THE COMMISSION AND THE CHAIRMAN TO SET THE TIME LIMITS PER SPEAKER. UM, AND SPANISH TRANSLATION SERVICES ARE AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETING. AND WE HAVE A QUICK VIDEO. WELL, I TELL AGENDA ITEM [B-22 19-9351 Address/Description: 335 TRAIL HDRC Case No.: 2019-641 Historic District Name: River Road RIO District: RIO-1 Applicant: Mark Odom/Mark Odom Studio Request: Construction of a multi-family residential development City Council Dist.: 1] B 22, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 41, 6 41, [03:20:03] EXCUSE ME, 3 35 TRAIL. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A MULTI-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE VACANT LOT LOCATED AT 3 35 TRAIL. THE PROPERTY FEATURES LOTS THAT ARE LOCATED WITHIN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY ONLY, AS WELL AS THOSE THAT ARE LOCATED WITHIN BOTH THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY AND THE RIVER ROAD HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED FOR THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES TO FEATURE TWO AND THREE STORIES IN HEIGHT. ACCESS TO THE SITE WILL BE PROVIDED FROM TRAIL STREET AND WESTAT STREET STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING Q, WHICH NOTES THE INCLUSION OF STREET FACING FRONT LOADED GARAGE DOORS, AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT THAT IS NOT PRESENT WITHIN THE RIVER ROAD. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF FINDS THIS DETAIL TO BE INAPPROPRIATE AND INCONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES IF THE COMMISSION FINDS THE PROPOSAL TO BE APPROPRIATE. THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STIPULATIONS THAT STAFF HAS INCLUDED. THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THEY WILL COMPLY WITH THESE STIPULATIONS. UH, RECENTLY THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED A MODIFICATION TO THE DESIGN IN REGARDS TO BUILDING FIVE. STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE MODIFIED DESIGN OF BUILDING FIVE WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION AT THE REDUCED HEIGHT PORTION OF BUILDING FIVE B. DESIGNED TO MENTION IN DETAIL TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER TWO STORY STRUCTURE ON SITE BUILDING SIX. ADDITIONALLY, THE APPLICANT SHALL UPDATE ALL SITE CONSTRUCTION AND DRAINAGE DOCUMENTS TO REFLECT THE MODIFICATION AND FOOTPRINT. A FOUNDATION INSPECTION IS REQUIRED, AS IS A ROOFING INSPECTION APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY. JAMES MCKNIGHT, 1 1 2 EAST PEON REPRESENTING THE, UH, DEVELOPER IN THIS CASE. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE, UH, LATE INTO THE EVENING. I KNOW IT'S TOUGH. UM, SO THIS IS, THIS WILL BE, UH, THE SECOND TIME FOR ME TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT THIS PROJECT, BUT THE FIRST TIME, I'M REALLY TRYING TO GO FOR A LITTLE MORE GLOBAL, UM, ASPECT. LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT DRAINAGE BRIEFLY, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THIS HAS COME THROUGH FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. IT WAS APPROVED, IT WAS ALMOST A YEAR AGO. WE GLOBALLY HAVE ADDRESSED THOSE CONCERNS THAT WERE PART OF THE STIPULATIONS, AND SINCE THEN IT'S BEEN WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, LISTENING TO COMMENTS. UM, NUMEROUS D R C HERE, UM, COMMITTEE MEETINGS, H D R C MEETINGS. WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE GETTING, I THINK WE HAVE MADE THE PROGRESS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE. IT'S A LONG PROCESS, BUT WE ARE REALLY WORKING HARD AND HAVE, I BELIEVE, GOTTEN WHERE WE NEEDED TO GET. SO THIS WAS THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, THE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN JANUARY OF EARLY OF THIS YEAR, AND THIS WAS THE ELEVATION THAT WAS APPROVED AS PART OF THAT. YOU CAN SEE THAT ON TRAIL STREET. IT WAS, THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ONE I WANNA TALK ABOUT IS THREE STORIES FOR BUILDING FIVE, TWO STORIES FOR BUILDING SIX THAT HADN'T CHANGED ALL THE WAY THROUGH. UM, THERE WERE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT HEIGHT AS WE, AS WE MOVED THROUGH THIS, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PART OF THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PROCESS AS, AS AN ARCHITECT, AS A DEVELOPER MOVES FORWARD, IT'S HOW MUCH MONEY CAN THEY SPEND? HOW, HOW DO WE DESIGN, HOW DO WE KNOW THAT IF WE MOVED FORWARD TO 75%, 80% CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS THAT WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA BE WHERE WE NEED TO BE. SO WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT, BUT WE'RE STILL WILLING TO MAKE THOSE CONCESSIONS. AND SO ACTUALLY WHAT WE HAVE SUBMITTED, LET ME SHOW THIS REALLY QUICKLY. THIS IS THE MAJOR CHANGE. THE MAJOR CHANGE IS, IS, OH, OKAY. YOU CAN, OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU'RE DOING IT FOR ME. . UM, SO THOSE UNITS ON TRAIL STREET, AS YOU SAW THE CONCEPTUAL PROOF, IT WAS FOR THREE STORY, BUT IN TALKS WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THERE WAS A LOT OF OF DISCUSSION ABOUT HEIGHT AND, YOU KNOW, COULD WE REDUCE THE HEIGHT FOR OUR PROJECT? WE SAID WE CAN TALK ABOUT REDUCING HEIGHT THERE. SO BUILDING FIVE FOR THOSE TWO UNITS, THAT'S WHAT, UH, STAFF WAS REFERRING TO THAT THEY WOULD, UM, RECOMMEND THAT IF YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THAT THOSE TWO UNITS MATCH BUILDING SIX. AND THE REASON THAT WE HAVEN'T COME TO FULL, UM, DEVELOPMENT ON THAT ONE IS JUST SIMPLY BECAUSE OF TIME IN THE EXPENSE. WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND MONEY TRYING TO GET TO THAT POINT. REDUCING IT FROM THREE STORIES DOWN TO TWO MEANS HAVING TO REDESIGN IT COMPLETELY FINE WITH DOING THAT. WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE, THE TIME OR THE RESOURCES TO DO THAT AT THIS MOMENT. AND SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD SAYING, YOU'RE GONNA MATCH THE, THE TYPOGRAPHY OF THE, THE BUILDING BUILDING SIX. UM, GO BACK, THESE WERE THE STIPULATIONS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TALKING ABOUT THE 18 FOOT SETBACK ON TRAIL AND THE 15 FOOT SETBACK FROM THE ASAKIA. UM, I CLOUDED THOSE TWO ITEMS TO SAY CERTAINLY WE HAVE COMPLIED WITH THOSE. WE RESPECTED THE ASAKIA AND MOVED THAT BACK IT LINE BUILDING SIX UP. NOW AS PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, [03:25:01] WE REALLY WANTED NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT. THAT WAS SOMETHING WE HAD BEEN TRYING FOR. UM, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENCES THERE, BUT WE, WE HAVE GIVEN THAT TWO STORY AS PART OF THAT AND SAID, I KNOW YOU WANT IT FOR THE WHOLE THING, BUT THIS IS, THIS IS AS MUCH AS WE CAN GIVE RIGHT NOW. AND I FEEL LIKE IT'S A, IT'S A BIG GIVE IN THIS, IN THIS CASE. UM, SO HEIGHT AND SCALE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT, UH, WE'VE HEARD FROM THE COMMISSION AND FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS WELL. I WANNA TALK ABOUT AS FAR AS HEIGHT AND SCALE. ALSO THE ZONING MAP I THINK IS IMPORTANT. SO YOU CAN SEE THE USE. WE ARE FOR THE, FOR TRAIL STREET, FOR THOSE THREE STORE UNITS, WE'RE ADJACENT, DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO C TWO. WE'RE ON AN MF 33 SITE. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN ON THOSE LOTS, BUT WE DO KNOW IT IS A COMMERCIAL SITE IN THE, IN THE U D C, THE ADJACENCY OF C TWO TO MF 33 DOESN'T EVEN REQUIRE A BUFFER. THESE ARE COMPATIBLE LAND USES AND THE HEIGHT DOES NOT POSE AN ISSUE. AS FAR AS THE U D C IS CONCERNED. YOU'VE GOT 25 FOOT MAXIMUM HEIGHT ON C 2 35 FEET IS OUR PROPOSED HEIGHT ON THE MF 33 DIRECTLY, UM, NEXT DOOR. SO WE FEEL LIKE IN TURN, I, I FEEL LIKE IT'S IMPORTANT TO SHOW THE ZONING MAP TO SAY IN TERMS OF USE. I FEEL THAT 30 STORY HEIGHT IS COMPLETELY APPROPRIATE. UM, I SHOW THIS JUST TO SAY THAT BECAUSE WE MOVED FORWARD AFTER CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WE HAVE BEEN DOING CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AND WE ARE AT THAT LEVEL OF 80% CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. SO WE HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK AND I DON'T THINK IT'S, UM, IT SHOULD BE LOST TO HOW MUCH WORK WE'VE BEEN PUTTING TOWARDS THAT. THIS IS JUST A, A DETAIL OF A SPEC SHEET FOR A WINDOW AS PART OF WHAT STAFF IS ASKED TO SAY ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. WE ARE CERTAINLY ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS ABOUT THE WINDOWS. WE ARE CERTAINLY WORKING WITH STAFF ON THAT. WE AGREE TO THE STIPULATION THAT THEY HAVE STATED. HERE'S THE, THE VIEW ALONG TRAIL STREET. AND YOU CAN SEE IT STILL SHOWS THAT THREE STORY THERE. I JUST ATTEMPTED TO, TO DO A ROUGH OUTLINE OF LINING UP WHAT THAT SECOND STORY OR A TWO STORY WOULD LOOK LIKE NOW THAT WE REDUCE THE HEIGHT. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, IT DOES MAKE A GOOD DIFFERENCE THERE. THIS IS THE ELEVATION ALONG WE SAT STREET, UM, HASN'T BEEN AS MUCH OF AN ISSUE. IT'S ACTUALLY NOT ZONED AS PART OF THE HISTORIC PART, ALTHOUGH IT IS STILL IN THE RIO. THIS IS THE DRAINAGE OR THE DETENTION POND. AND THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR ANOTHER ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'VE HEARD A LOT FROM BOTH THE COMMISSION AND FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THAT IS STORM WATER MANAGEMENT AND PROTECTION OF THE, SO THIS IS THE, THE DRAINAGE FOR THE SITE CURRENTLY, AND THIS IS THE DRAINAGE PLAN THAT WE HAVE WORKED OUT BETWEEN T C I OUR ENGINEERS. IT'S, UH, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE, BUT, UM, THREE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS TO, TO TAKE NOTE OF. ONE IS THE CISTERNS THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED. UM, THAT WAS PART OF, OF TCIS COMMENTS. WE'VE ADDED THESE CISTERNS, RAINWATER CISTERNS IN THERE. THE IMP UH, THE PERVIOUS PAVEMENT THAT IS GOING TO BE AS PART OF THE ENTIRE PROJECT REALLY REDUCES THE AMOUNT OF FLOW THAT COMES OFF OF THERE. IT'S BETWEEN THE CISTERNS AND THAT PERVIOUS PAVEMENT THAT ACTUALLY HANDLES THE TWO YEAR STORM. UM, BEYOND THAT WE HAVE, UH, UH, STORM WATER DRAINAGE THAT RUNS ALONG THE BUILDING FIVE AND BUILDING SIX AND THEN CONNECTS AND GOES NORTH INTO THE DETENTION POND. SO ALL OF THE RAINWATER THAT'S COMING THIS DIRECTION, ALL THAT STORM WATER IS GOING NORTH INTO THAT DETENTION POND, NOT INTO THE ASAKIA. AND IF YOU REFER TO STAFF'S REPORT ON THIS, ADDITIONALLY, APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A SMALL WALL OR CURB TO DETER RUNOFF FROM ENTERING THE AS AIA FROM THE SITE. THIS OVERALL DRAINAGE PLAN WOULD RESULT IN A REDUCTION OF RUN RUNOFF ENTERING THE AS AIA ADJACENT TO THE SITE WHEN COMPARED TO EXISTING CONDITIONS. THE PROPOSED DRAINAGE PLAN HAS BEEN REVIEWED BY T C I THROUGH CONCURS WITH THE DESIGN IS GENERALLY COMPLIANT WITH STORMWATER CODE AND DOES NOT USE THE ASAKIA AS PART OF THE PROPOSED DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT LAST STATEMENT. WE'RE NOT USING THE ASAKIA AS PART OF OUR DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE AND WE'RE ACTUALLY REDUCING THE FLOW FROM WHAT IS THERE. SO OBVIOUSLY REALLY IMPORTANT TO GET TCIS FEEDBACK ON THIS. WE CAN'T GET FULL APPROVAL FROM THEM UNTIL WE MOVE FORWARD INTO PERMITTING, BUT THEY HAVE REVIEWED IT WITH O H P AND, AND BOTH BASICALLY HAVE CONCURRED TO SAY YOUR PLAN NOW MEETS THOSE, THOSE STANDARDS. SO THAT'S STORMWATER PROTECTION OF THE ASAKIA HEIGHT AND SCALE. I KNOW THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS ALSO BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT TREES. WE ARE PRESERVING SEVERAL. WE HAVE A, UH, LANDSCAPE PRESERVATION PLAN AS PART OF OUR CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. WE ARE REMOVING SOME AND MITIGATING, BUT WE ARE PROTECTING OTHERS. AND IT'S, IT REALLY JUST COMES DOWN TO HOW THE SITE IS LAID OUT THAT WE, WE DID THE BEST THAT WE COULD. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER DRAINAGE PLAN. THIS IS, THIS IS SOME OF THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS JUST TO SHOW, YOU KNOW, HOW FAR ALONG WE ARE IN THESE DOCUMENTS. UM, I ALSO THINK ONE OF THE LAST CONCERNS IS SORT OF DESIGN. [03:30:01] I KNOW THAT DESIGN FROM A, A LARGER STANDPOINT IS REALLY SUBJECTIVE. WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF COMMENTS ABOUT THE DESIGN. THEY DON'T LIKE THE DESIGN. IT DOESN'T FIT SOME OF THE BUNGALOW ARCHITECTURE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK THAT, THAT, WHILE IT IS AN IMPORTANT COMMENT TO HEAR, THIS IS A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE THAT WE ARE TRYING TO SPEAK WHEN IT COMES TO MULTIFAMILY HOUSING. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A THREE STORY MULTIFAMILY TOWN HOME ON AN MF 33 SITE, THAT'S JUST VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE STORY BUNGALOWS IN THAT AREA. A LOT OF THOSE ARE ONE, ONE AND A HALF STORIES. WE'RE AT TECHNICALLY TWO AND A HALF STORIES. UM, IN TERMS OF HEIGHT, WE ARE FAIRLY SIMILAR. WE ARE NOT, THIS IS NOT A ONE STORY NEXT TO A FIVE STORY, BUT THE DESIGN LANGUAGE ITSELF IS SPEAKING SOMETHING DIFFERENT AND IT REALLY ISN'T THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES OTHER THAN THE GARAGES ALONG TRAIL STREET, WHICH DON'T SEEM TO BE A, A, AN ISSUE FOR ANYONE ELSE. UM, STAFF HAS, HAS BELIEVES THAT WE ARE FOLLOWING THOSE GUIDELINES. SO OVERALL, I JUST WANNA SAY THAT WE, WE'VE WORKED REALLY HARD TO, TO GET TO A POINT WHERE WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE ADDRESSED EVERYBODY'S COMMENTS. WE THINK WE'VE COME UP WITH A REALLY GOOD PROJECT. WE'RE STILL LISTENING, BUT, UM, I THINK AT THIS POINT WE HAVE REALLY FOUGHT HARD TO GET TO A POSITION WHERE WE WE CAN FINALLY MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT. UM, AND I'M HERE FOR ANY ANSWER, ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. UH, WE DO HAVE CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. UM, ELAINE ASK YOU BACK UP FOR COMMENTS. ELAINE VETER. YES. ELAINE VETER 39 11 FOREST CREEK ON BEHALF OF THIS CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONTINUES TO SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION THAT THE STREET FACING FRONT LOADED GARAGE DOORS FOR 3 3 5 TRAIL NOT BE APPROVED. THEY'RE OUT OF CHARACTER. WITH THE DESIGN OF THE RIVER ROAD HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE SEVERAL STIPULATIONS THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS AGREED TO. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY IS ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE VISUAL IMPACT OF THE LARGE CISTERNS TANKS ON THE TRAIL AS IT PASSES THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT. AND THAT'S RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED. PATTY ZZ, PRESIDENT OF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THANK YOU. MIMI ILLA, UM, THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SUBMITTED SOME COMMENTS FOR, UM, THE COMMISSIONER'S FOLDERS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GOT THEM. SO I'VE GIVEN ANOTHER COPY. UM, MY NAME IS MIMI ILLA. I LIVE AT 1 5 0 OSTROM DRIVE. MY HUSBAND AND I OWN TWO OTHER HOUSES ON OUR BLOCK AND TWO PARTIAL LOTS THAT WERE ORPHANED BY THE 2 81 CONSTRUCTION IN THE 1970S. MY FAMILY HAS OWNED OUR HOUSE, THE HOUSE THAT I LIVE IN SINCE 1955, AND WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CHANGES TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS THAT WE PRESERVE THE CHARACTER OF THE INNER CITY HISTORIC DISTRICT. OUR RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS PROPERTY IN PARTICULAR IS SANDWICHED BETWEEN TRAIL AND WE, SATCHIN HAS A UNIQUE DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT CHALLENGE BECAUSE OF ITS SHAPE AND BECAUSE OF ITS LOCATION. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS HAVE BEEN PRESENTED TO THE APPLICANT, THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND BEFORE YOU, THE H D R R C COMMISSIONERS. SINCE THE FALL OF 2018, THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION HAS MET WITH THE DEVELOPER, BUT IN, NOT IN RECENT TIMES HAVE WE BEEN IN DISCUSSION WITH THEM ABOUT OUR STILL GRAVE CONCERNS. THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN ING IN REGISTERING OUR GRAVE CONCERNS REGARDING FIVE ELEMENTS OF THIS PROJECT SINCE WE FIRST BECAME AWARE OF THE PROJECT. AND THOSE ARE THE ONES YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT. THE SCALE AND HEIGHT, THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, THE PRESERVATION OF THE HISTORIC ASAKIA, THE MATURE TREES ALONG THE EDGES OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT ALSO BACK UP TO PUBLIC PARKLAND. THE LACK OF ECLECTIC ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS THAT ARE THE HALLMARK OF OUR HOUSING STOCK. UM, THEY ARE THE ELEMENTS THAT CREATE OUR CHARMING HUMAN SCALE, BUNGALOW, AND COTTAGE COMMUNITY THAT MAKES RIVER ROADS SUCH A DESIRABLE PLACE TO LIVE. THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS, THE HEIGHT AND SCALE OF NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD NOT EXCEED THAT OF THE MAJORITY OF THE HISTORIC BUILDINGS IN MORE THAN ONE. BY MORE THAN ONE STORY, THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS CONSISTENTLY MAINTAINED THAT ALL UNITS ON TRAIL SHOULD BE TWO STORY. THE THIS REMAINS THE MAIN CONCERN OF OURS. THE CURRENT PROPOSAL. I BELIEVE I HAVE SOMEONE GIVING ME TIME. GEORGE NASH. GEORGE. OKAY, THANK [03:35:01] YOU. YES. THE CURRENT PROPOSAL THREATENS THE VIABILITY OF EVERY SINGLE TREE ON SEV AND SEVERAL OFF TR SITE TREES IN THE PUBLIC PARK. THIS INCLUDES A HUNDREDS YEAR OLD HERITAGE OAK TREE THAT HAS A CIRCUMFERENCE OF OVER 12 FEET. THAT IS AMAZING THAT WE STILL HAVE THAT TREE AND WE HOPE TO STILL CONTINUE TO HAVE THAT TREE. THE NEIGHBORHOOD REMAINS CONCERNED OVER THE NEAR CLEAR CUTTING OF THE SITE, THE APPLICANT HAS INDICATED A WILLINGNESS TO OBTAIN TREE WARRANTIES. HOWEVER, THIS IS NOT REFLECTED IN THE CURRENT PRESENTATION. THEY'RE NOT SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIED. MY NEIGHBORS WILL SPEAK TO OUR CONTINUED CONCERNS REGARDING THE NEXT THREE ITEMS. STORMWATER MANAGEMENT, THE THREATS TO THE HISTORIC ASAKIA AND THE LACK OF ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF THIS PROJECT AS IT RELATES TO RIVER ROAD. WE HOLD FIRM TO THAT PRIOR TO RECEIVING FINAL CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FOR THESE CONCERNS FOR THIS PROJECT, THEY NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AND CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE AND DOCUMENTED ON THE PLANS THAT COME BEFORE YOU. FOR ALL OF US TO LOOK AT THAT, THOSE NEED TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE HISTORIC NATURE OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THEY NEED TO CONTRIBUTE TO ITS CONTINUED PRESERVATION AS AN IMPORTANT ENCLAVE WITHIN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE CREATED FOR A REASON AND WE ASK YOU TO CONTINUE TO PROTECT THEM WITH APPROPRIATE. WE KNOW THAT SOMETHING WILL BE ON THAT LOT. WE KNOW LOTS, BUT SOMETHING THAT IS APPROPRIATE AND ADDS TO THE, THE CHARM AND THE BEAUTY AND THE PRESERVATION AND THE APPROPRIATENESS OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. THANK YOU FOR LISTENING. THANK YOU. JOHN HERTZ. UH, MR. HERTZ RECEIVES FOUR MINUTES. JIM MCKEN HAS YIELDED HER TIME. FOUR MINUTES. I, UM, BEFORE J JOHN, BEFORE YOU START, MIFI MOORE HAS ALSO SIGNED IN AND IS YIELDING TIME TO JOHN HERTZ OR ANYONE. AND SO YOU CAN HAVE UP TO SIX MINUTES. OKAY. I'LL TRY TO BRIEF. I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY. UM, MY NAME IS JOHN HERTZ, 1 25 ANASTASIA PLACE. THIS PROPERTY IS RIGHT ACROSS THE ASAKIA FROM THE PROPOSED PROJECT. SO I'M ONE OF THE MORE IMPACTED, UM, PARTIES, RIVER ROAD. UM, AS THE PREVIOUS SPEAKER SAID, WE'VE BEEN SAYING THE SAME THINGS. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MEETINGS NOW, BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH REPEATING, UM, WHAT THE POSTURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS REGARDING THIS PROJECT AND HOW OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS RELATIVELY SMALL. THERE'S ONLY 130 HOUSES. UM, THE, THE HOUSES ARE PREDOMINANTLY BUNGALOW COTTAGE ALMOST. UM, 90% ARE SINGLE STORY. THERE ARE A FEW, THERE MAY BE LIKE NINE, PERHAPS 10 HOUSES THAT ARE MORE THAN ONE STORY TO, UM, THIS PROJECT IS OUT OF SCALE. IT'S OVERLY DENSE, IT'S FOOTPRINT IS EXCESSIVE. THE ORIGINAL LOTS THAT IT'S BUILT ON HAD EIGHT HOUSES ON IT WITH A TOTAL OF 7,000 BUILT SQUARE FEET. IT'S NOW BEING INCREASED TO 70,000 BUILT SQUARE FEET. THAT'S THE, THE IMMENSE, UM, INCREASE IN THE SCALE OF THIS PROJECT. UM, YES, WE'VE TALKED AD NAUSEUM ABOUT WHAT THE UNDERLYING DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR GUIDELINES SAY ABOUT HOW NEW CONSTRUCTION IN, UH, EXISTING HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS SHOULD BE. AND IT SHOULD ONLY EXCEED BY ONE STORY, THE PREDOMINANT BUILDING TYPE, WHICH ARE ONE STORY BUILDINGS. THEREFORE, THE PROJECT REALLY SHOULD BE TWO STORIES, BUT CERTAINLY WHERE THE PROJECT ABUTS TRAIL STREET, IT SHOULD BE ONLY TWO STORIES. I COULD PUT 20 PAGES UP HERE OF COMMENTS TAKEN FROM THE O H P H D R C MEETINGS AND DESIGN REVIEW MEETINGS ABOUT ASKING THE, UM, DEVELOPERS TO REDUCE THE SCALE OF THE PROJECT, MOVE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE ASAKIA, PERHAPS 21 UNITS INSTEAD OF 24 UNITS, PERHAPS TWO AND A HALF STORIES INSTEAD OF THREE STORIES. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. THE INCONGRUITY OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE [03:40:01] SCALE IS VERY APPARENT. THERE IS TO SCALE THE EXISTING, UH, THE PROPOSED PROJECT ON SATCH AND THE TWO BUILDINGS ADJACENT TO IT. I TOOK THIS PHOTO, UM, OUT OF THE NEWSPAPER JUST RECENTLY, YOU KNOW, THE CONTROVERSY FOR THE CITY AS AN ENTITY ABOUT, UM, INFIELD DEVELOPMENT IN HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS. THAT IS BASICALLY WE, WE SATCH THERE'S THE EXISTING HOUSE THAT'S NEXT TO THE PROJECT AND THERE'S THE SCALE OF THE PROJECT. IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A MONSTROSITY IN TERMS OF, OR IT'S MONSTROUS IN TERMS OF THE SCALE. UM, I'VE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT'S GOING TO SHADE OUT THE, UH, WINTER SUN FROM THE PRO, THE, THE SINGLE FAMILY UNITS ALONG SATCH. UM, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE ORIGINAL CONCEPTUAL DESIGN AND THEN AFTER MUCH, UM, A MUCH RESISTANCE ON THE PART OF THE DEVELOPER WHO'S ALWAYS BEGGED, UH, COST CONSIDERATIONS. THEY ACTUALLY, UM, AGREED TO REDUCE THREE OF THE UNITS ALONG TRAIL STREET. I WAS HERE WHEN THEY WERE ASKED, WELL, CAN'T YOU REDUCE ALL OF THEM? AND THEY SAID, ADAMANTLY, NO, NO, OUR BUDGET DOESN'T ALLOW IT. BUT LO AND BEHOLD, HERE THEY ARE NOW TELLING US YES, THEIR BUDGET DOES ALLOW. SO NOW FIVE OF THE UNITS, WE'RE GETTING CLOSER, WE'RE GETTING CLOSER, I THINK WITH MAYBE ABOUT 10 MORE MEETINGS. UM, WE'LL FINALLY GET TWO STORY UNITS ALONG TRAIL, WHICH IS WHAT THIS PROJECT RE REALLY DEMANDS IN ORDER TO BE APPROPRIATE. UM, WE HAVE WINDOW ISSUES, YOU KNOW, ON THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, THERE WERE NO WINDOWS ALONG THE SIDES OF THE BUILDINGS. NOW THERE ARE WINDOWS ON THE SIDES OF THE BUILDINGS AND THOSE BUILDINGS LOOK DOWN ON THE ONE STORY HOUSES THAT ADJACENT ARE ADJACENT TO THEM. MY HOUSE, CLARK'S HOUSE AND HOUSES THAT ARE ON SATCH. WE THINK THERE SHOULDN'T BE WINDOWS THAT LOOK DOWN INTO OUR YARDS. WE'VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT THE CHAOTIC NATURE OF THE DESIGN OF THE FACADE. UM, I DON'T KNOW, THERE'S SOME, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM WITH WHAT THE PREDOMINANT WINDOW TYPOLOGY IS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE'RE NOT ASKING THEM TO MAKE BUNGALOWS, BUT WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT A, WE CERTAINLY SHOULDN'T BE SUBJECTED TO SOMETHING THAT'S TOTALLY ALIEN TO EVERYTHING THAT MAKES OUR NEIGHBORHOOD BEAUTIFUL. UM, THE PORCH, I'VE SHOWN YOU SOME EXAMPLES HERE OF WHAT PORCHES REALLY LOOK LIKE THAT HAVE STRUCTURAL COLUMNS. I DON'T THINK PUTTING A CHAIR BY AN ALCOVE BY A DOOR MAKES A PORCH. THAT IS NOT A PORCH BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. AND I THINK THIS PROJECT NEEDS PORCHES. SO AGAIN, WE ARE ASKING YOU TO DENY THE CERTIFICATE OF A FINAL CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS BASED ON THESE FIVE ISSUES THAT WE DON'T FEEL THE PROJECT HAS APPROPRIATELY ADDRESSED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, LARRY CLARK. UH, MR. CLARK, WE FOUR MINUTES. PATRICIA T HAS YIELDED HER TIME. CAN SHE COME SIGN IN, PLEASE? OH, LUCY WILSON. YES. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME'S LARRY CLARK. I LIVE AT 1 0 2 ALLISON DIRECTLY ACROSS THE ASAKIA FROM THIS PROPERTY. I'M ALSO A DESIGN PROFESSIONAL WITH ABOUT 35 YEARS IN SAN ANTONIO. SO I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TASK AND WHAT YOU ALL DO TO HELP US PRESERVE OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND OUR CULTURAL RESOURCES. IT'S, UH, REALLY IMPORTANT THAT YOU'RE, UH, LISTENING TO US TODAY. UM, SO RIVER ROAD, THERE'S ONLY THREE WAYS TO GET INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THIS PROJECT, UH, PLANS TO OCCUPY TWO OF THOSE WAYS IN, UM, TRAIL AND SATCH. IT'S, UH, ADJACENT TO PARKLAND. IT'S ACROSS THE STREET FROM A 1780 HOUSE, PROBABLY THE OLDEST HOUSE NORTH OF THE ALAMO. AND, UH, IT'S ALONG THE UPPER LABOR BO SEIA AND THE UPPER LABOR BO SEIA EXTENDS ALL THE WAY ALONG THE PROPERTY. IT'S NOT JUST THE OPEN DITCH THAT REMAINS, BUT THE, THERE IS A REMNANT, UM, SWAY AS WELL. SO, UM, TODAY WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU TO DENY FINAL APPROVAL, AND JOHN AND MIMI HAVE DONE AN ADEQUATE JOB OF GOING THROUGH A VERY GOOD JOB OF GOING THROUGH, UM, MANY OF THESE CONCERNS. AND I'M GONNA, BECAUSE OF THE TIME LIMITATION MOVE THROUGH THIS RATHER, RATHER QUICKLY. UH, WE'VE HAD A LONG PROCESS AND IT HASN'T SEEMED TO MAKE MUCH, UH, DIFFERENCE UNFORTUNATELY. UM, WITH THE APPLICATION, UH, SCALE, THE MASS, THE DENSITY HASN'T CHANGED. AS JOHN NOTED. UH, WE STILL HAVE A THREE STORY URBAN TOWNHOUSE IN [03:45:01] A, UH, LARGELY ONE STORY, UM, HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEY WERE ASKED TO REDUCE THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDINGS BY YOU. UH, THEY CAME BACK WITH JUST A MINOR, UH, REVISION. UM, THE PLANS ARE STILL SOMEWHAT INCOMPLETE AND IN CONFLICT. UH, WE HAVE SOME THAT ARE 80%. WE HAVE SOME THAT ARE REALLY DATED, YOU KNOW, CALLED FINAL PLANS. EVEN THIS ONE WITH THE GRAY BOX ALONG TRAIL. BUT I THINK THAT THE KEY HERE IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PLACE THAT DESIGNS, IN MY OPINION, SHOULD ALWAYS, UH, BE ADAPTED TO THE CONTEXT WHERE THEY ARE LOCATED. AND WE WERE TOLD IN A YEAR, OVER A YEAR AGO, UM, BY THE DEVELOPER THAT, UM, THE NEARBY BUILDINGS WILL BE USED AS A PRECEDENT FOR ALL SORTS OF THINGS. THE PROJECT HAS USED NOTHING FROM THE SURROUNDING CONTEXT AS A DESIGN PRECEDENT. WE WERE TOLD IN 2018 THAT THIS PROJECT WOULD BE NO MORE THAN TWO AND A HALF STORIES. UM, ALL OF THESE UNITS LOOK LIKE THEY WERE MACHINED. THEY'RE UNIFORM, THEY'RE, THEY'RE REPETITIVE, THEY'RE NOT DIVERSE, AND THEY'RE NOT AT ALL LIKE THE SURROUNDING AREA. THIS AREA IS ONE THAT IS LARGELY, UM, COMPLETELY TREED. IT'S GOT A SMALL FOOTPRINT. UM, YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBER OF TREES ACROSS RIVER ROAD. THE PROJECT SIDE IS IN THE LOWER RIGHT. UM, WITH RESPECT TO TREES, THE TREE PLANS THAT WE'RE, THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE GONNA SAVE SIGNIFICANT TREES IN NO WAY REFLECT SAVING OF SIGNIFICANT TREES. AS A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, I WONDER HOW WE'RE GONNA PUT A WALL THROUGH A 24 INCH HERITAGE PECAN AND PAVE UNDER IT AND CUT OFF HALF OF ITS ROOT ZONE AND CALL IT AS A PRESERVED TREE, AS A SAVED TREE. SAME THING WITH THE 26 INCH HERITAGE BALD CYPRUS, UM, ALONG ATCH THAT HAS A BUILDING WITHIN EIGHT FEET OF IT AND UTILITY LINES THROUGH IT. THE PLANS IN NO WAY REFLECT SAVING TREES. EVERY SINGLE TREE ON THAT SITE WILL, IN MY OPINION, BE REMOVED. WE SEE WALLS RAISE GRADING A FOOT AND A HALF OF THE TREES, BUILDINGS TOO CLOSE TO THE SPANISH LANDMARK AIA, THE SPANISH COLONIAL SEIA. UM, AND DRAINAGE IS STILL A BIG CONCERN. WE WON A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE 100 YEAR RAIN EVENT CONTAINED ON SITE AS JOHN HERTZ SHOWED US. THE SCALE IS WRONG. HERE'S THE ONE STOP CENTER ON THAT SITE. IT'S ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AND IT'S, IT'S LOWER IN HEIGHT. THIS, THIS BUILDING IS LOWER IN HEIGHT THAN WHAT'S PROPOSED. UM, CITY COUNCIL HAS THOSE SAME CONCERNS AS WAS NOTIFIED BY JOHN. UM, THE U D C MAY BE MODIFIED IN THE FUTURE TO HELP US, BUT TODAY I'M ASKING YOU TO HELP US TODAY WITH VERY SIMILAR CONDITIONS TO WHAT HAS BEEN REPORTED IN THE PRESS AS A CONCERN OF CITY COUNCIL. JOHN SHOWED THIS PHOTO AS WELL. THIS IS IN FACT THE SCALE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AS IS THAT IN THAT ARTICLE, MICHAEL SHANNON WAS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT MAY BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH BUILDING CODES, BUT THEY'RE, THEY AREN'T ALWAYS COMPATIBLE WITH THEIR SURROUNDINGS. AND WE WANNA SEE PROTECTION OF THE CHARACTER OF THIS ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD. WE DON'T WANT TO DETER DEVELOPMENT. WE WANT, WE KNOW SOMETHING'S GONNA BE BUILT THERE, AS MIMI SAID, BUT WE WANT IT TO BE APPROPRIATE. SO THE PLACE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIVER ROAD IS ONE THAT HAS OVER MANY YEARS. THAT'S A SEVEN YEARS, THAT'S A 1776 ASAKIA THAT GAVE RISE TO OUR STREET, UM, SYSTEM. IT SET THE ALIGNMENT FOR MANY THINGS. IT CONTAINED THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH THE RIVER, THE DITCH AND THE QUARRY. THAT'S NOW THE, UM, SUNKEN GARDEN. AND UH, WE FEEL REALLY LUCKY TO BE THERE. WE'VE GOT INFILL DEVELOPMENT COMING UP, BROADWAY AND THE FLOOD ZONE. WE KNOW, UH, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH. BUT THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE REALLY RESPECT THE HISTORY OF THIS PLACE. AS YOU CAN SEE THAT WE STILL HAVE GORGEOUS BIG TREES ALONG OUR RIVER. UM, TREES WERE IMPORTANT THEN THEY ARE TODAY. THEY WERE IN BRACKENRIDGE PARK, TURN OF THE LAST CENTURY, BEAUTIFUL SETTINGS. AND WE STILL HAVE THOSE BEAUTIFUL BIG TREES EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE THAT'S SLATED TO BE CUT DOWN. THIS IS THE ONE THAT MIMI REPORTED A 12 FOOT, UH, CIRCUMFERENCE TREES AND HISTORIC HOMES WERE AN IMPORTANT THING, EVEN WHEN MAURY MAVERICK WAS ORGANIZING, UH, HISTORIC HOME TOURS OF THE SCHOOLHOUSE WHERE HE PLANTED A PECAN WHEN HE WAS A FOUR YEAR OLD BOY. IT'S STILL THERE. IT'S THE, UM, RESIDENTS OF THE FAMILY OF THE LATE JIM. AND IT'S, UH, IMPORTANT, UH, AREA AROUND THIS SITE. IT'S DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. THAT'S SIX MINUTES. THANK YOU. UM, I JUST WANNA SAY THAT, THAT WHAT'S PROPOSED IS NOT APPROPRIATE. WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR DENIAL THAT THIS ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD IS AGAINST IT. [03:50:01] AND HAS ANYONE OTHER THAN THE APPLICANT SAID ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT THIS PROJECT? I HAVEN'T HEARD IT. ARE THERE ANY LETTERS OF SUPPORT? NO. UM, WE WANT SOME ASSURANCE AND WE WANT TO ASK YOU TO DENY, UH, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THIS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MR. GREEN. RICHARD GREEN. GOOD AFTERNOON. AND I, I'D ALSO LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR ATTENTION AND ALL THE WORK ON THIS. RICHARD REED. I LIVE AT 6 1 5 RIVER ROAD AND I CAME, STARTED WITH THIS PROJECT AS PRESIDENT OF THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. I'M NO LONGER PRESIDENT, BUT NOW I'M SITTING ON THE PARKS AND THE, UH, THE RIVER COMMITTEE. AND AS A RESULT, UM, I, I'M IN, I'M INVOLVED IN THIS. I JUST, THERE ONLY HAVE TWO SIMPLE POINTS TO MAKE. I DON'T HAVE ANY SLIDES. FIRST POINT IS THAT THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ITSELF HAS BEEN CONSISTENT IN WHAT IT'S ASKED THESE DEVELOPERS TO DO. AND PART OF OUR FRUSTRATION WITH THIS IS THAT THE INCREMENTAL CHANGES THEY'VE MADE IN THIS PROJECT HAVE YET TO, TO REACH OUR, OUR, OUR BASIC NEEDS OF, OF, OF CHANGE. UM, I I WILL SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, AFTER THE FIRST MEETING AT H D R C, WE MET WITH THE ARCHITECTS AND THE DEVELOPERS OUTSIDE IN, IN THE INTERCHANGE OUT HERE. AND WE TALKED ABOUT GETTING TOGETHER. AND I SAID TO THE ARCHITECT, I SAID, I'D LOVE TO TAKE YOU OVER TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, INTRODUCE YOU TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE, SHOW YOU THE BUILDINGS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND, AND THE, THE, THE ARCHITECT SAID, YEAH, YEAH. HE SAYS, I I KNOW IT'S, WE'VE GOT NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE YOURS IN AUSTIN. AND I STOPPED AND I SAID, REALLY? UH, WE'RE UNIQUE. AND HE SAID TO ME, ALL NEIGHBORHOODS THINK THEY'RE UNIQUE NOW. WE ARE UNIQUE. I THINK ALL NEIGHBORHOODS ARE UNIQUE. WE'RE UNIQUE IN A WAY THAT HAS A COMMUNITY WITH A SET INFRASTRUCTURE. WE HAVE HISTORY THAT WE'RE PROTECTING AND PRESERVING. AND WE'VE GOT A NATURAL ENVIRONMENT THAT INCLUDES THE RIVER THAT WE'RE WORKING HARD TO PROTECT. WE'VE BEEN CONTINUAL IN OUR DEMANDS FOR THE DEVELOPERS FROM THE START THAT WE HAVE RELATIVELY FEW, BUT VERY SERIOUS NEEDS. THE SECOND THING THAT I'D, I'D LIKE TO POINT IS THAT WE AS A COMMUNITY, WE ARE A COMMUNITY. AND NO, THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY AGREES WITH EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY SAYS, BUT IN THIS CASE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IS, HAS BEEN UNANIMOUS IN, IN, IN OPPOSING THIS PROJECT. WE STARTED OUT WORKING WITH, WITH THESE GROUP, REALLY HOPING WE COULD MAKE THIS WORK AFTER ABOUT 18 MONTHS, WE DON'T SEE A PROJECT THAT WE CAN SUPPORT. AND WE ASK THE STAFF, WE ASK YOU TO SUPPORT, TO VOTE FOR, DENY THE APPROVAL OF THIS PROJECT. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE THE APPLICANT. PLEASE COME BACK IF I CAN ADDRESS SOME OF THE COMMENTS. YES, PLEASE. THANK YOU. UM, ONE THING IS ABOUT TREE PRESERVATION AS PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS IS A TREE PRESERVATION PLAN. THAT TREE PRESERVATION PLAN IS, IS PART OF THE APPLICATION PACKAGE, PART OF THE PERMIT PACKAGE. YOU CAN'T DEVIATE FROM THAT. YOU CAN'T REMOVE THAT TREE WITHOUT A SERIOUS VIOLATION. SO WHATEVER'S IN THAT TREE PRESERVATION PLAN IS CORRECT IF THE WALL HAS TO GO AROUND IT. THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES. BUT IT, WE HAVE CERTAINLY PRESERVING TREES AND IT'S IN AS PART OF OUR PERMIT PACKAGE. UM, I THINK IT'S, THERE'S A FEW THINGS THAT, THAT I KEPT HEARING OVER AND OVER ABOUT, UM, UNIQUENESS AND LOCATION. I THINK IT IS A UNIQUE, VERY UNIQUE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND THIS IS A UNIQUE LOCATION OF, OF BETWEEN SATCH AND TRAIL. PART OF THE UNIQUENESS ABOUT OF THIS IS THAT IT IS TOWARD THE EDGE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IN THE CONTEXT, LARGER CONTEXT NEXT TO A APARTMENT COMPLEX TO THE NORTH AS WELL. THIS IS NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT. AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE IGNORE IT AND WE HAVEN'T IGNORED IT, BUT IT DOES MEAN THAT IT IS DIFFERENT AND THAT WE CAN HAVE A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE AND THAT IT CAN BE UNIQUE IN ITS OWN WAY. AND PART OF HAVING UNIQUE NEIGHBORHOOD IS DIVERSITY. YOU KNOW, THE WHY NOT HAVE THE DIVERSITY OF THIS, OF A MULTIFAMILY COMPLEX THERE. IT'S, IT IS ZONED MF 32. WE'RE GOING LOWER THAN THE DENSITY THAT WE'RE ALLOWED. WE ARE BRINGING SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO THIS AREA. AND THAT MAKES IT UNIQUE AS WELL. AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT. WE RECEIVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WE MOVE FORWARD IN THAT, IN THAT RESPECT TO SAY, I THINK WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK AND WE KEEP HEARING THINGS LIKE WE'RE NOT MOVING AT, AT ALL. AS YOU JUST HEARD FROM THE LAST SPEAKER, HE SAID, WE HAVEN'T CHANGED OUR POSITION FROM THE BEGINNING. EXACTLY. YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH OF THEM NOT CHANGING THEIR POSITION. THE GOAL IS SUPPOSED TO BE COMPROMISE. NOT TO SAY THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS THIS. AND SO WE'RE SLOWLY GETTING TO WHERE THEY ARE. WE'RE NOT SLOW TO GET GETTING TO [03:55:01] WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD WANTS. THAT'S VERY RARELY A DEVELOPER'S GOAL. IT'S SOME SORT OF COMPROMISE WHEN BOTH PARTIES WALK AWAY UNHAPPY. THAT MEANS YOU'VE GOT A GOOD COMPROMISE. WELL WE'VE, WE'VE MOVED AND WE'VE ASKED THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO MOVE AS WELL. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO INCREMENTALLY GET TO EVERYTHING THEY WANT BECAUSE I, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WITH OUR GOALS WE CAN GET THERE, BUT WE CAN GET TO A COMPROMISE. AND I THINK WE'VE GOTTEN THERE. SO THIS IS A UNIQUE SITE, UNIQUE CHALLENGES AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE MET THEM ALONG THE WAY. THERE ARE GUIDELINES IN PLACE, THERE'S A PROCESS IN PLACE. WE'VE MET THAT AND WE FEEL WE'VE GOT A GOOD PROJECT THAT CAN REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE. MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, CAN I ASK STAFF? I'M A LITTLE BIT IN, IN DOUBT OF THE PROCESS. UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A NEW APPLICATION. SO WE DENY THIS. SO THIS IS A, UM, POSTPONEMENT OF A CASE THAT CAME IN NOVEMBER. SO, BUT WE DENIED IT IN OCTOBER OR IN YES. THIS IS A NEW, NEW CASE THAT WAS PRESENTED IN NOV ACTUALLY MAYBE EVEN OCTOBER. UM, ORIGINALLY, YES. UM, BUT YES, THERE WAS A PREVIOUS DENIAL FOR, UM, A SIMILAR SCOPE. WHAT HAS CHANGED IS THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN AND SOME DESIGN ELEMENTS RELATED TO THAT. UM, AS WELL AS THE PROPOSED COMPROMISE FOR REDUCED BUILDING HEIGHT TODAY, WHICH IS UNTIL TODAY. 'CAUSE UM, I'M JUST GONNA GO BACK LIKE WE, THEY HAVE IT IN ALL AND THEY'VE REALLY NOT CHANGED A REQUEST. WHAT THEY'RE CHANGING IS THE WAY THAT THEIR DESIGN HAS CHANGED. THAT'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS, AND THEN WE, YOU COME HERE IN OCTOBER AND, AND I'VE BEEN, YOU KNOW, PRETTY MUCH SUPPORTIVE BY THE PROJECT ITSELF. NOW I'M JUST THINKING THAT THIS PROCESS IS JUST, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. UM, SO NOW IN OCTOBER WE, WE, WE, WE LISTENED TO THIS, YOU PRESENT A STORM WATER PLAN THAT HAS CHANGED SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT WERE REALLY INTERESTED IN SEEING THAT WERE NOT HERE, WHICH I FELT LIKE THEY NEEDED TO HEAR IT OUT. I THINK WE SENT IT TO D R C. WE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, WE'VE JUST POSTPONED IT SINCE THEN, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN TO ANY OF THE MEETINGS. THERE'S BEEN TWO POSTPONES. AND DO WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION TODAY? BECAUSE THE AGENDA ITEM DATE HAS A DATE OF DECEMBER 17TH. THE FIRST POSTPONE POSTPONEMENT WAS BY THE COMMISSION. UM, THE SECOND, UH, WAS BY THE APPLICANT OR IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TWICE BY THE APPLICANT APPLICANT. SO ONE WAS US TO ASK HIM THE APPLICANT TO COME BACK. CORRECT. AND THE DATE SAYS DECEMBER 17TH. THE DEADLINE, THE APPLICANT THAT WE HAVEN'T UPDATED IT. THAT'S THE STANDARD 60 DAY TURNAROUND. THE U D C ALLOWS THE APPLICANT TO POSTPONE, UM, WITH THEIR CONSENT. SO WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION TODAY. UM, NO, UNLESS THERE'S ANOTHER POSTPONEMENT BY THE APPLICANT, WE WOULD NEED A DECISION AT THE NEXT AVAILABLE MEETING. THE APPLICANT REQUESTED THIS DATE AND SO THE U D C ALLOWS THEM TO DO THAT. SO UNLESS THERE WAS ANOTHER REQUEST BY THE APPLICANT TO POSTPONE AGAIN, UM, THE COMMISSION WOULD NEED TO TAKE ACTION TODAY. MR. CHAIR? UH, YES. I'D LIKE TO JUST ADDRESS SOME COMMENTS TO THE APPLICANT IN, IN, UM, HAVING HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE FOR A FEW SESSIONS THAT Y'ALL PRESENTED AND IN LIGHT OF THE PRESENTATIONS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, MY, MY, MY FEELING JUST, JUST IN TERMS OF THE MASSING, THAT'S BEEN A CONSTANT DISCUSSION. IS IT ACHIEVING THE TWO, THE TWO UM, SECTIONS THERE OF BUILDING FIVE? IT'S A MOVE IN THE, IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I DON'T, I I DON'T FORESEE, UM, IT MOVING ANY FURTHER WITHOUT ALL OF TRAIL STREET ADDRESSING THE NEED FOR GRADUATION FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IT IS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT, THAT, THAT YOU PROPOSE. RIGHT. I'M NOT PERSONALLY, UM, UNDERSTANDING THE TERMINOLOGY THAT'S USED IN TERMS OF THE ROOF AS A MANSARD ROOF. 'CAUSE REALLY IT'S A SLIGHTLY SLOPED FLAT ROOF AND, AND THE ADDITION TO THE FRONT IS CREATIVE, BUT, BUT IT'S KINDA CREATIVE LIKE A BOX BUILDING, LIKE KIND OF LIKE, LIKE THE STORAGE BUILDING ON COMMERCE STREET CORNER OF COMMERCE AND CHERRY, THERE'S A BOX BUILDING AND IT HAS A FACADE ON IT THAT SAYS I'M THIS NOW, RIGHT? I'M NOT A BOX ANYMORE. SO, SO THIS, THIS, YOU KNOW, IT, IT KIND OF CAUSES THAT SITUATION. BUT THE WAY THAT TRAIL TURNS ITSELF BACK TO THE CENTER AND THE WAY THAT ATCH TURNS ITSELF BACK TO THE CENTER, YOUR FACADES ON TRAIL, YOUR FACADES ON ON ATCH KIND OF ENABLE THAT KIND OF DIFFERENT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND THEN BUILDING THREE AND FOUR [04:00:01] ARE NESTLED IN THE INTERIOR. SO IT KIND OF ENABLES THEM TO HAVE WHATEVER DIALOGUE THEY WANT TO HAVE. THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE COMPLETELY WITHIN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, RIGHT? YOUR APARTMENT ENCLAVE. BUT I, I DON'T PERSONALLY SEE A WAY OUT OF TRAIL, UM, GRADUATING ITS HEIGHT UP TO BUILDING THREE AND FOUR AND THEN LIKEWISE ON BUILDING ONE, HAVING SOME GRADUATION FROM THE SINGLE, UH, FAMILY DWELLING, NOT, NOT BEING RIGHT NEXT TO A THREE STORY BUILDING. LIKE SOME OF THE ILLUSTRATIONS WERE SHOWN. SO IN TERMS OF MASSING, I KNOW THAT MA REDUCTION IN MASSING MEANS SOMETHING ELSE IN THE APARTMENT BUSINESS, RIGHT? BUT I REALLY DON'T SEE A WAY OUT OF IT BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN IN MANY, MANY SESSIONS, UH, HERE AND, UM, I THINK ULTIMATELY YOU'D WANNA, UH, GET, GET BUSY AND CONSTRUCT A PROJECT. BUT, UM, I I I I WANNA JUST, UH, TELL YOU THAT I, THAT I HAVE, UH, SEEN SEEN THE, THE, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU ALL WORKED VERY HARD. UM, IT IT'S AN, IT IT'S A LITTLE UNFORTUNATE THAT, THAT IT DOESN'T BEGIN, UM, WITH THE CRITERIA OF THAT, OF THAT COMMUNITY, OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, I DO KINDA RECOGNIZE THAT YOU COULD DO IT PERF WITHIN, WITHIN THE BUNGALOW STYLE AND PROBABLY PUT MORE APARTMENTS IN THERE AND THEN, AND THEN WHAT WOULD THE DIALOGUE BE, RIGHT? BUT, UM, I I THINK YOU WOULD STILL HAVE THE ISSUE OF MASSING AS YOU GRADUATE FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD UP GOING NORTH AND THEN ON THE WEST FROM THE SINGLE FAMILY GRADUATING BEFORE YOU JUST, YOU KNOW, JUMP RIGHT IN. SO, UM, IN TERMS OF WHAT THE PROCESS IS FOR, FOR, FOR Y'ALL OR, OR, UH, WITH RESPECT TO THIS APPLICATION, WHETHER THERE'S, THERE'S, UM, OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO COME BACK OR, OR TO REDESIGN. I KNOW THAT TAKES, UH, UH, A LOT OF TIME, BUT LISTENING CAREFULLY TO THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE. UH, I THINK THAT IF, IF YOU, IF YOU REALLY LISTEN TO WHAT'S BEING SAID, IT, IT, IT'S A GREATER SACRIFICE. UM, BUT, BUT, BUT THE RIVER RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD IS REAL, UH, PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD AND IN THE CITY AND IT'S, UH, GOT A LONG STANDING, UM, REPUTATION FOR STANDING UP FOR ITS FOR, FOR ITS INTEGRITY. AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHY THAT NEIGHBORHOOD'S THE WAY THAT IT IS. UH, AND, AND, AND THE, AND THE CROSS TRADE OFF TO THEM IS THAT WHEN IT RAINS, THEY HAVE TO PUT UP WITH A LOT MORE THAN EVERYBODY ELSE DOES. SO THERE, THERE'S, THERE'S A BALANCE FOR THEM. UM, I I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE YOU TO, TO, TO GET TOGETHER WITH THEM BECAUSE, AND, AND I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY MEAN THIS AS A COMPLIMENT. IT IS, BUT, BUT THERE ARE VERY FEW NEIGHBORHOODS WITH AVAILABILITY OF SUCH INTELLIGENCE THAT IF, IF, UH, I MEAN IN, IN, IN A CONCENTRATED ENVIRONMENT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS AREN'T SMART, IT'S JUST THIS IS A PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET TOGETHER WITH THEM. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER, I HAVE A, A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. HOW DOES IT FEEL ABOUT THE, UH, THE RECOMMENDATIONS FROM STAFF? UH, IF THE DESIGN IS DEEMED APPROPRIATE? WE AGREE TO ALL STIPULATIONS FROM STAFF AND, AND I, AND I REALLY, I'M GONNA TAKE MY OPPORTUNITY 'CAUSE I'M STANDING HERE TO ADDRESS, UH, MR. VELASQUEZ, I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL YOUR COMMENTS. I DO. UM, THE CHALLENGE FOR US IS THAT THE WAY THIS PROCESS IS LAID OUT IS CONCEPTUAL AND FINAL. WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SCALE AND HEIGHT, THOSE ARE ONES THAT REALLY NEED TO BE ADDRESSED AT THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW. BECAUSE ONCE THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL GOES THROUGH AND YOU SAY THREE STORIES, WE SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING FORWARD WITH THREE STORIES. YOU LET THE ARCHITECT LOOSE, YOU LET THE ENGINEER LOOSE. AND I'M NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT COST, BUT JUST TIME AND UNDERSTANDING FROM OUR SIDE THAT WE HAVE THAT WE'RE REFINING THINGS LIKE THE STIPULATIONS AT THAT TIME WERE SETBACKS SOME OF THE ARCHITECTURAL LANGUAGE OF THE WINDOWS, SOME OF THE MATERIALS IMPROVING THE DRAINAGE, THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT AT NO POINT IN THE STIPULATIONS WAS IT, BUT YOU MAY HAVE TO REDUCE THE HEIGHTS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT OR YOU KNOW, THAT WAS A REAL TOUGH PROBLEM FOR THE, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS. SO YOU'RE REALLY GONNA HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT. THOSE ARE THINGS THAT HAPPEN TO CONCEPTUAL. SO YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT, I MEAN IF YOU'RE TAKING SOMETHING FROM FIVE DOWN TO TO ONE OR TWO, CERTAINLY SOMEBODY WOULD UNDERSTAND THAT'S A BIG CHANGE. MAYBE IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT BIG A CHANGE, BUT GOING FROM THREE DOWN TO TWO DOES MAKE THE ARCHITECTURE VERY DIFFERENT. SO IF YOU GO THROUGH CONCEPTUAL, IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHY DID WE, WHY DID WE GET THAT APPROVAL? WHY DID WE GO THROUGH THAT TO GET THAT THREE STORIES JUST TO COME BACK HERE AND SAY, YOU GOTTA GO BACK DOWN TO TWO NOW I DON'T DISCOUNT HOW IMPORTANT IT IS. AND YOU WERE RIGHT, LISTENING TO THE [04:05:01] INTELLIGENT COMMENTS FROM THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. ABSOLUTELY. MY FIRM HAS GONE THROUGH A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I WASN'T PART OF IT, BUT I'M VERY AWARE OF IT AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE ALL CAME OUT VERY APPRECIATIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE REALLY. UM, I'M JUST, WE'RE WE'RE KIND OF STUCK BECAUSE ONCE WE GOT THAT APPROVAL, WE MOVED FORWARD AND NOW WE'RE ASKED TO GO BACK AGAIN. IT'S LIKE WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO REFINE, THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN SO DIFFICULT TO MAKE THIS, THEY'RE NOT CHANGING, THE DEVELOPER'S NOT CHANGING. WELL YEAH, BECAUSE WE GOT THE CONCEPTUAL, WE THOUGHT THE INCREMENTAL CHANGE WE'RE MAKING WAS PART OF MATERIALS, MAYBE A ROOF SLOPE, YOU KNOW, THE WINDOW MULIAN, MAKING SURE THE DRAINAGE, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS YOU GET BETWEEN CONCEPTUAL AND FINAL. BUT USUALLY YOU'RE NOT TURNING THE MASSING OF THE THREE STORY DOWN TO TWO. SO, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH ALL YOUR COMMENTS, BUT I, I FEEL LIKE AT THIS POINT IT'S, WE GOT STUCK BECAUSE WE GOT THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND WE FEEL LIKE THAT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT STEP IN OUR PROCESS SO THEY WOULDN'T HAVE MOVED FORWARD THIS FAR AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SO STUBBORN. I THINK IF THEY HADN'T GOTTEN THAT. AND LOOK, MY CLIENTS HAVE MADE SOME MISTAKES. THEY, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PERFECT IN THIS PROCESS. THEY ARE TRYING TO LEARN THROUGH IT. IT IS A DIFFICULT PROCESS. I WILL, WILL FALL ON OUR SWORD A LITTLE BIT THAT TO SAY WE DID NOT MAKE IT EASY. WE GET THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, PART OF REDUCING THE PART OF THAT BUILDING FIVE DOWN TO TWO STORY MAY NOT SEEM LIKE MUCH, BUT FOR THEM IT WAS, IT WAS A BIG DEAL. UM, AND WE FEEL LIKE WE, THAT IS PART OF OUR COMPROMISE AND PART OF US PART OF THIS LEARNING PROCESS TO SAY WE ARE GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS, BUT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WE WOULD GET TO THE END AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR NOW. THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. SO THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT THE BUILDING AND I'M, I'M SURE YOU'RE WELL AWARE OF THAT. UM, I AM CONCERNED BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING HOUSES. OKAY. AND YOU, UM, MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE MOVED, BUT THE NE THE NEIGHBORHOOD HASN'T. CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT? SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'VE MADE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS SIGNIFICANT CHANGES, BUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS NOT, DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE, THE CHANGE YOU'RE MAKING? NO, I WOULDN'T GO THAT FAR. I'M, I'M ONLY ADDRESSING SORT OF USING THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS USED BY THE LAST SPEAKER SAYING WE HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT IN WHAT WE'VE ASKED FOR FROM THE DEVELOPER. AND THAT'S GENERALLY THE TONE IS WE'RE THEY'RE, THEY'RE ASKING, I WOULD EXPECT THEM TO DO THAT, SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE WANT, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. THEY'VE BEEN CONSISTENT IN THAT, BUT I'D SAY WE'RE DOING ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING. WE'RE CONSISTENT THAT WE WANTED THE THREE STORIES THAT WE GOT IN CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, BUT THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME COMPROMISE ON ONE SIDE AND WE'RE SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA REDUCE THE HEIGHT THERE, BUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HASN'T SAID, ALRIGHT, WE'LL GIVE YOU THREE STORIES ON THAT CORNER. YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I'M, SO I'M JUST ADDRESSING THAT COMMENT OF WE'VE BEEN CONSISTENT AND, AND, AND THEY'VE BEEN CONSISTENT IN THEIR REQUESTS. THEY HAVE, I'M ASKING THEM TO MOVE ON THEIR REQUESTS SOME BECAUSE WE ARE WILLING TO. SO WOULD YOU SAY YOU'RE BEING SENSITIVE TO THEIR CONCERNS? ABSOLUTELY. TO TRY TO GO FROM AT THE, THIS, THIS LAST MOMENT TO, TO REDUCE THAT AND TO, TO TAKE THOSE TWO UNITS AND HAVE TO COMPLETELY REDESIGN THEM AGAIN, INCLUDING SOME OF THE, AS STAFF POINTED OUT, SOME OF THE DRAINAGE THAT MIGHT BE AFFECTED BY THAT? I THINK IT IS. AND, AND I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, GIVE SOME MORE FEEDBACK, LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE MEETINGS THAT I'VE SEEN, UM, FOR THIS PROJECT, IT DIDN'T START OUT AS TWO AND A HALF STORIES AND PRESENTED THIS WAY OR THE, THE THREE STORIES. IT WAS A FULL THREE STORIES WITH A BALCONY, ROOFTOP BALCONY, IT WAS A LARGER PROJECT. UM, AND SOME OF THESE CONCESSIONS WERE MADE TO GET CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. SO WHENEVER THAT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WAS REACHED, IT WAS DELIBERATED. WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO COMPLETE A ANSWERED ROOF TO MAKE A TWO AND A HALF TO THREE STORY SEEM MORE APPROPRIATE IN THIS AREA BECAUSE WE'RE TRYING TO BRIDGE THAT GAP BETWEEN A ONE AND A HALF STORY AND THE ONE STORY BUFFER ZONE PROVIDED BY CODE. SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT, WHERE THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL CAME FROM. AND FROM MY MEMORY, AND, AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M, IF I'M WRONG. UM, SO THERE HAS BEEN COMPROMISES ALONG THE WAY AND SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF COMPROMISES BY THE DEVELOPER. I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT I APPRECIATE. I I DIDN'T EXPECT THEM TO, UH, BRING THESE TWO BUILDINGS DOWN. I, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS SOME GIVE AND TAKE THERE AND THERE HAS BEEN SOME, UM, SOME CHANGES ON BOTH SIDES, UH, THAT I DIDN'T NECESSARILY SEE COMING. BUT I THINK FROM MY OPINION, FROM MY, FROM WATCHING THIS PROJECT OVER THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF, THERE HAS BEEN CONSIDERABLE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE TOWARDS THE BETTERMENT OF THE PROJECT AND THE BETTERMENT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT ARE MORE APPROPRIATE WITH ZONING THAT ARE MORE APPROPRIATE WITH THE, THE BUFFER CONDITION THAT THIS SITS ON BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL AND THE COMMERCIAL OF THE, OF THE SITE. UM, WHETHER TALKING ABOUT WATER [04:10:01] RETENTION, I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE TREE PRESERVATION PLAN THAT'S IN THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. THERE'S, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING BY, THERE'S A LOT OF REMOVAL, UM, THAT'S IN THERE IF, IF ANYBODY WANTS TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT MORE CLOSELY. UM, BUT IN GENERAL, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT WE'VE ASKED AS A COMMISSION THEY'VE DELIVERED ON. SO I HAVE TO AT LEAST BE FAIR AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AND SAY THAT I AGREE WITH MS. UH, COMMISSIONER BOWMAN. UM, AND I THINK MAYBE FOR THE APPLICANT IT HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF A CHALLENGE SINCE THERE'S A LOT OF NEW, UM, COMMISSIONERS AND WE'VE BEEN GOING AT THIS FOR ABOUT A YEAR, MAYBE MORE 18 MONTHS. SO, UM, I I I'VE ALWAYS SAID, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT WE HAD, WE AT THIS COMMISSION DID GIVE A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AND THEN I FEEL LIKE MAYBE SOME OF THE, MAYBE CHANGE OF COMMISSIONERS HAS SUDDENLY MADE, YOU KNOW, NEW REQUIREMENTS. I THINK THE TWO MAIN CONCERNS THAT THE REASON WHY THIS COMMISSION HAS NOT WANTING TO APPROVE IT FULLY, WELL NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT LIKE, YOU KNOW, CAMILLA REPORT, UH, HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE FIVE STORY. SO I MEAN, IF WE LOOK AT THE GUIDELINES AND WE LOOK AT STUFF, WE, I THINK WE ALL HERE ACROSS THE BOARD AGREE THAT WE ACCEPT THAT THEIR FRONT FACING ON TRAIL THE GARAGES, SO REMOVING THAT LEAVES US MANY STIPULATIONS WITH STAFF. AND I THINK ALL HERE IN THE COMMISSION AGREE THAT THESE STIPULATIONS SHOULD ALL STAY. HAVE THEY BEEN A HUNDRED PERCENT COMPLIED WITH? I GUESS THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS AND IT'S THE BUILDING FIVE AND THE STORMWATER PLAN, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOWN TO. IF, IF THESE STIPULATIONS ARE GOOD ENOUGH FOR US AS A COMMISSION THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH. I JUST HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF, IT'S CONCEPTUALLY APPROVAL OF BUILDING FIVE. DOES THAT MEAN THAT IT'S JUST CO CONCEPTUALLY APPROVED THAT TWO STORY SECTION AND WE LEAVE THE OTHER THREE? OR IS AS A WHOLE STAFF, EXCUSE ME. STAFF STIPULATION IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH THE STIPULATION THAT IT BE DETAILED CONSISTENTLY WITH BUILDING SIX, UM, IN REGARDS TO THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS, ROOF FORM MATERIALS, UH, THAT WOULD THEN NEED TO COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL, UM, AS THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS AREN'T AT THE LEVEL, UH, FOR FINAL APPROVAL FOR JUST FOR BUILDING FIVE, FOR THE TWO STORY PORTION ONLY. ONLY FOR THE TWO STORY PORTION. RIGHT. SO IT'D BE COMPLETELY SEPARATE APPLICATION. WE DON'T HAVE TO CORRECT. THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE REQUEST THAT WOULD NEED TO COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION. I MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STIPULATIONS. ALL STIPULATIONS SECOND. BUT I DO, I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION. UM, IS THERE A WAY THAT IF, UM, STAFF DEEMS THE DESIGN APPROPRIATE, THE CONCEPTUAL, THE THE FINAL DESIGN OF THAT TWO STORY STRUCTURE APPROPRIATE, CAN THAT BE DONE ADMINISTRATIVELY? IF THE MOTION WAS DIRECTING STAFF TO ISSUE A CERTIFICATE FOR SOMETHING THAT MATCHED EXACTLY. BUILDING SIX AS WE SEE IT NOW, THEN YES. I DON'T WANNA CHANGE MY MOTION. I, I THINK FOR FAIRNESS AND CLARITY AND YEAH, LET'S REVIEW IT HERE. I I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING BEFORE WE VOTE ON THE MOTION. YES SIR. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR THE, FOR THE NEIGHBOR NEIGHBORHOOD COMING EVERY SINGLE MEETING. UM, THANK YOU FOR THE, TO THE DESIGN TEAM AND THE, AND AND THE DEVELOPER FOR THIS COMPROMISE. IT'S BEEN A LONG ROAD. UM, I KNOW IT'S YOUR FIRST, ONE OF YOUR FIRST PROJECTS. I WOULD JUST INVITE YOU THAT ON FURTHER PROJECTS TO, UM, LISTEN TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS THE EXPERT ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS AND PUBLIC PARTICIPATION AND ENGAGEMENT IS IMPORTANT IN YOUR PROJECTS. I THINK AFTER, UH, THIS LONG ROAD, WE REALIZED THAT THEY'LL KEEP ON FIGHTING FOR THEIR, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND WHERE THEIR FAMILIES LIVE. UM, I THINK, AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, BUT I WOULD JUST INVITE YOU TO, UH, NEXT TIME JUST LISTEN TO THE EXPERTS ON, ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY, THEY KNOW WHAT, WHERE THEY LIVE AND, AND THEIR CONCERNS. UM, THEY'RE NOT HERE TO JUST MAKE YOUR LIFE HARDER. THEY'RE JUST VOICING THE CONCERNS THAT THEY'VE SEEN, UM, AS THEY'VE LIVED THERE. UM, THAT'S, THAT'S ALL. YOU HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? ANY FURTHER, MR. CHAIR? I HAVE A COMMENT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? UM, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF, STAFF WHY, UM, THE WEST BUILDING ONE. WHY, WHY IF, UM, WHY, WHY HAVEN'T YOU LOOKED AT THE, UM, THIS, THE, THE SCALE OF THE MASSING AS IT RELATES TO THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING? YOU KNOW, UH, IT, IT'S, IT'S A CONSIDERATION. IT'S, IT'S GOT A CLOSER PROXIMITY THAN TRAIL DOES TO A STRUCTURE. FAF DID COMMENT ON THAT, THAT I CAN, I CAN ANSWER THIS. UM, I MEAN THAT'S ALL BEEN [04:15:01] PART OF THIS CONVERSATION LEADING UP TO THIS DATE. UM, ONE OF THE ORIGINAL STIPULATIONS THAT WAS APPROVED WAS AN INCREASED SETBACK ON ATCH. I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ONES ON ATCH BUILDING ONE. UM, SO IT HAS CERTAINLY BEEN LOOKED AT THIS LOOKED AT BY THIS COMMISSION. UM, AT THIS POINT THERE'S A MOTION ON THE TABLE. IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE MOTION, THEN YOU'RE ABLE TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND, AND IT'S, I JUST, I WANTED TO GET A, GET A THINKING BECAUSE, UH, I, I WOULDN'T BE SUPPORTING IT UNLESS THE MOTION INCLUDED OF THE WEST END OF BUILDING ONE. UH, CAN IT ALSO BE COMMISSIONER VELAZQUEZ THAT, UM, YOU, YOU KNOW, ONE SECTION OF IT IS IN RIO ONE AND THE OTHER ONE IS IN THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF NO, NO GUIDELINES NO TO, TO ME, TO LAY LAYING OUT A, A SITE PLAN DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE DETAILS OF THE BUILDINGS. IT'S THE MASSING, IT'S A SIMPLE MASSING PLAN. AND, AND, YOU KNOW, HA HAVING SUNLIGHT REACH EDGES OR CROSS SHADOWS, CROSS EDGES IS, IS KIND OF A BOX CONSIDERATION BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE. AND TO ME IT, IT, IT NEVER REALLY DID THAT. THEY'VE MOVED SO FAR, UH, TAKING, BUILDING FIVE, UH, INTEGRATED COUNT IN THE SAME MANNER AS BUILDING SIX. AND, AND ONE, WITH RESPECT TO THAT SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, IT CLEARLY IS NOT WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS, IS, IS ASKING FOR. UM, AND IT'S CLEARLY NOT WHAT THE DEVELOPER'S ASKING FOR, BUT, BUT IT IS, UM, I WOULD SAY, UM, NOT JUST A COMPROMISE IN, IN, IN WHAT EVERYBODY'S SAYING, BUT ALSO FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF ANY EXPERTISE THAT THAT, THAT, THAT I CAN PROVIDE HERE AT THE TABLE. THAT WOULD'VE BEEN A, AN ELEMENTARY CONSIDERATION, UM, AT, AT THIS, AT THIS POINT. UM, IT, IT REALLY SHOULD BE, BE SOMETHING THAT WORKS WITH THE EXISTING ELEMENTS OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UH, THEY, THEY, THEY'D MOVE VERY FAR WITH BUILDING FIVE AND BUILDING SIX IF THEY DID THAT. UH, BUT BUILDING ONE WOULD STILL BE PROBLEMATIC ON THE WEST END. THANK YOU. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. OH, JUST REAL QUICK COMMENT TOO, IF I COULD ECHO SOME, SOME THOUGHTS THAT WERE SHARED IS THAT, UM, I REALIZE HOW COMPLICATED THE PROCESS CAN BE, ESPECIALLY IN SOME OF THESE HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND, AND NEGOTIATIONS. THERE AREN'T A LINE IN THE SAND. SO I DO APPRECIATE THE, THE WHEREWITHAL, THE INVESTMENT, THE TIME COMMITMENT TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS. UM, THESE PROJECTS ARE HARD. UM, THE CONTEXT OF WHO'S AN EXPERT AND WHAT HISTORY AND WHAT'S HISTORIC, UH, THIS CAN GET VERY ARBITRARY, BUT, UM, FOR ME, WHERE IT IS THE MASSING, IT, IT ALL MAKES SENSE FOR ME. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I HAVE ONE THOUGHT BEFORE WE VOTE ON THIS. YES. UM, I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF DIFFICULTY IN THIS INSTANCE SUPPORTING A MOTION FOR FINAL APPROVAL WHERE A PIECE OF THAT IS IN CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. DOING THIS IN TWO PIECES IS A LITTLE BIT OF A CONCERN. I'VE LOOKED IN INTO THE DRAWINGS TO THE EXTENT, UH, THAT I'M TRYING TO TRY TO FIND A WAY TO SUPPORT A FINAL APPROVAL ON BOTH THAT STAFF CAN FOLLOW UP AND I JUST CAN'T GET THERE WITH THE GRAY BOXES. UM, THAT'S, THAT DOESN'T MEET THE THRESHOLD OF, UH, DOCUMENTS ON THAT BUILDING. UM, I WOULD BE, I WOULD BE IN SUPPORT OF, UH, A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL SHOULD THIS MOTION FAIL, THAT THAT COVERS THE ELEMENTS, UH, THAT ARE PRESENTED HERE. SO JUST TO BE CLEAR, THE MOTION WOULD REQUIRE THAT THAT COMPONENT OF BUILDING FIVE COME BACK FOR FINAL. I, I, I UNDERSTAND. UM, IT'S THE FINAL APPROVAL WITHOUT THE OTHER PIECE THAT'S, THAT I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, BUT A MOTION FOR CONCEPTUAL, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LIKE A DIFFERENT MOTION THAT WOULD BE CONCEPTUAL OF THE WHOLE PROJECT, WHICH IS WHAT THEY ALREADY HAVE. ALL, ALL I'M SUGGESTING IS THAT A, A, A FINAL APPROVAL THAT LEAVES OUT A PART OF THIS TO COME BACK AGAIN FOR A FINAL APPROVAL DOESN'T HOLD WATER FOR ME. WE'VE DONE THAT MANY TIMES TO JUST MOVE FORWARD. THE APPLICANT, WE, WE, WE HAVEN'T, I RECALL REGRETTING IT. I'M JUST ALSO SEEING THAT WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR TWO YEARS AND IF WE, I, I, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, AGREE YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TOWARDS POSTPONING, WHICH I DON'T KNOW IF, IF THAT UN HONESTLY, I THINK THE BEST WAY OUT FOR THE APPLICANT HERE IS TO UNDERSTAND WHETHER OR NOT THIS COMMISSION WILL APPROVE, UH, TRAIL STREET ELEVATION THAT HAS TWO AND A HALF STORY ELEMENTS, OR IF IT WILL ONLY APPROVE A TWO STORY ELEVATION ON TRAIL STREET. UM, I MEAN, I KNOW THE PROCESS CAN BE, CAN BE BUMPY AND, UH, I DON'T FEEL A NEED TO APOLOGIZE, UH, FOR THAT. THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE ALL ALONG THE [04:20:01] WAY AND, UM, IT WAS VERY CLOSE ON CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL AS IT RELATES TO THIS ISSUE. AND I'M NOT SURPRISED IT'S STILL AN ISSUE NOW. IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT IN EVERY MEETING SINCE I CAN REMEMBER. AND I DO APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK ON THE STORM WATER, THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN AS IT RELATES TO THE SITE FEATURES. I DO FIND THE, UH, REVISED SITE FEATURES APPROPRIATE THAT THEY'RE NOT LOCATED NEAR, UM, THE EXITED PIECE OF THE, UH, SEIA AND THAT THEY'RE RETAINING THE WATER MORE APPROPRIATELY. AND I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. THERE IS A MOTION ON THE TABLE, I THINK. YES, THERE IS. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. CAN YOU REREAD THAT MOTION PLEASE? THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL WITH ALL STIPULATIONS, INCLUDING THE STIPULATION THAT THE FINAL DESIGN FOR BUILDING FIVE RETURN FOR FINAL APPROVAL. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYE. NAY. WE'LL DO A ROLL CALL. FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH NAYYY GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ NAYYY AREOLA. AYE. CARPENTER? AYE. RUBE. AYE. BOWMAN. AYE. FETZER. NAYYY, LAO. AYE. THAT IS A SPLIT VOTE. WHO DOES NOT PASS? SO THE MOTION FAILS. SO WE NEED ANOTHER MOTION. PLEASE. WHAT IS THE EXPIRATION ON THIS APPLICATION? IT EXTENDS BY THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT THEY REQUESTED, AND THEY'VE REQUESTED TWO POSTPONEMENTS. SO ONE MONTH, RIGHT, BECAUSE IT, BOTH OF THEM WERE TWO . SO I GUESS MY, MY QUESTION IS, IF THIS CASE WERE TO BE CONTINUED, WOULD IT EXPO, WOULD THE APPLICATION EXPIRE BEFORE A JANUARY 15TH DATE? I TO LET US DO THE MATH BECAUSE I DON'T WANNA GIVE YOU THE WRONG INFORMATION. CAN SOMEONE, OKAY. ARE WE GEARING GIVING CLEAR GUIDANCE TO THE APPLICANT IF WE DO POSTPONE THIS? MR. CHAIR CONTINUANCE IS DIFFERENT THAN A POSTPONEMENT, RIGHT? ARE THEY ONE IN THE SAME POINT, POINT OF ORDER? I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW THE U D C READS ON THIS. AND BASICALLY THE COMMISSION CAN EXTEND FOR, CAN MAKE A MOTION TO EXTEND FOR A 30 DAY PERIOD. YOU CAN EXTEND, UM, UH, UP TO THREE TIMES, RIGHT? BUT THE APPLICATION, EXCUSE ME, LET ME GO AHEAD AND READ TO YOU THE CODE. UM, BASICALLY THE APPLIC, THERE'S A 60 DAY PERIOD. THE APPLICATION CAN BE, EXTE CAN BE EXTENDED UP TO THREE TIMES BY THE END. THE 60 DAY TIME PERIOD MAY BE EXPENDED THREE ADDITIONAL TIMES EACH TIME, NOT EXCEEDING 30 DAYS WITH A CONCURRENCE OF THE APPLICANT. IF ADDITIONAL TIME IS REQUIRED FOR THE PREPARATION OF INFORMATION OR FOR RESEARCH REQUIRED BY THE COMMISSION IN CASES INVOLVE, SO THAT'S IT. YOU CAN EXTEND IT, UM, UP TO THREE TIMES FOR 30 DAYS WITH CONCURRENCE OF THE APPLICANT. IT WAS SUBMITTED ON OCTOBER 18TH. SO THE DEADLINE, THE ORIGINAL 60 DAYS WAS DECEMBER 17TH, BUT THEN THEY REQUESTED TWO, TWO WEEK POSTPONEMENT. SO REALLY ONE 30 DAY POSTPONEMENT. SO IT WOULD BE POTENTIALLY, POTENTIALLY IT COULD GO TO THE, TO JANUARY 15TH, BUT WE LITERALLY NEED TO COUNT THE DAYS ON THE CALENDAR. I ALSO REMIND THIS COMMISSION THAT WE HAVE A FULL AGENDA AHEAD OF US. WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER APPLICANTS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME. UM, MR. CHAIR, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANOTHER MOTION? MR. CHAIR? I, WELL, I I THINK MOTION TO CONTINUE, UM, THE, UM, WE'RE HERE NO MATTER WHAT, DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE AGENDA IS, THEY CAN ADD ANOTHER ONE AND WE'RE STILL HERE. SO TO ME IT'S IRRELEVANT. THEY, THEY, THEY'VE MADE AN EFFORT. EVERYBODY'S MAKING AN EFFORT TO GET SOMEWHERE. SOONER OR LATER, IF WE'RE PATIENT, EVERYONE WILL GET TO WHERE THEY NEED TO BE. THE, THE, THE PEOPLE THAT, THAT HAVE A BUSINESS TO RUN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WANTS TO, TO, UH, ENJOY THEIR THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND, UM, MADE A MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. ONE SECOND. BECAUSE I SERIOUSLY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE. IT'D BE CONSIDERED AN AUTOMATIC APPROVAL BASED ON THE NUMBER OF CALENDAR DAYS BETWEEN THIS DATE AND JANUARY 15TH. WE JUST NEED A MOMENT. THANK YOU. [04:25:55] UH, THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO ASK IF IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE, UM, ESPECIALLY TO COMMISSIONER FISH. 'CAUSE YOU TALKED, BROUGHT IT UP, UM, IF IT WAS BUILDING FIVE AS OPPOSED TO PORTION OF BUILDING FIVE OR IS THAT THE SAME? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? SAFETY, IF THE, IF THE, IF IT WAS FINAL APPROVAL FOR EVERYTHING BUT BUILDING FIVE, NOT A PORTION OF BUILDING FIVE AND THE CON THAT BUILDING FIVE, NOT A PORTION WOULD'VE TO COME BACK. THIS IS THE SAME TRAP WE DID IN CONCEPTUAL REVIEW ON THIS PROJECT. WE GAVE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OVER ALL, BUT THIS BUILDING, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME BACK AT A LATER DATE FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL BECAUSE THERE WAS ALL SORTS OF CONSTERNATION ABOUT IT, I BELIEVE, OR AT LEAST IN A D R C MEETING. I CAN'T REMEMBER THIS PRECISELY, BUT THIS PARTICULAR BUILDING HAS BEEN A PROBLEM THAT WE'VE HAD TO CIRCLE BACK AROUND TO OVER AND OVER AGAIN. SO THAT'S THE ONLY REASON I'M NOT COMFORTABLE. OKAY. I THAT OUT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE SEPARATE PARTIAL FINAL. OKAY, THANK YOU. OKAY, SO THE APPLICANT REQUESTED TWO, TWO A WEEK POSTPONEMENTS, WHICH IS 28 DAYS. SO THAT EXTENDS THE 60 DAYS BY 28 DAYS. AND IF YOU COUNT ON THE CALENDAR, JANUARY 15TH IS EXACTLY 28 DAYS FROM TODAY. SO THE COMMISSION COULD TAKE ACTION ON JANUARY 15TH, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE, THE LAST, UNLESS THE APPLICANT AGREES TO A CONTINUANCE. SO THAT FIRST MOTION WAS VALID THEN? WELL, WELL, I WOULD WANT, YEAH, THAT MEANS IT COULD, BUT I'M JUST COMING. COMMISSIONER FISH. SO YOU, UH, JUST FOR THE APPLICANT TO, I MEAN, OR SOME OTHER, OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAT HAVE DENIED THE FIRST MOTION, CAN YOU GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF GUIDANCE TO THE APPLICANT TO WHAT EXPECTS BEFORE NEXT MEETING SINCE NEXT MEETING WILL BE THE LAST CHANCE TO, YOU KNOW, I, GO AHEAD. WELL, I'VE BEEN IN NUMEROUS DRCS WITH THE APPLICANTS AND SITTING THROUGH INNUMERABLE COMMISSION MEETINGS AND BUILDING FIVE, UH, HAS BEEN THE, UH, I'VE HAD CONCERNS WITH BUILDING FIVE AND HAVE MENTIONED THAT TO THE APPLICANT IN ALL THE D R C MEETINGS. UH, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER BOWMAN THAT, UH, THE PROJECT HAS PROGRESSED FROM ORIGINALLY, UM, AND THE FACT THAT IT'S IN A, UH, TRANSITION ZONE BETWEEN THE, UM, MAIN PORTION OF THE RIVER ROAD NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE COMMERCIAL ADJOINING DISTRICT. UM, I'M OKAY WITH THE, UH, MULTIFAMILY AS, AS PROPOSED, BUT THE, MY MAIN CONCERN IS THE, UH, BUILDING FIVE AND HAS BEEN, UH, FROM DAY ONE AND MR. CHAIR REGARDING, UH, THOSE OF US THAT HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET ON, ON BOARD WITH IT. UM, MINE WOULD BE BUILDING FIVE, BUT IT WOULD ALSO BE THAT BUILDING ADJACENT ON ATCH TO THAT SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING THAT IT SHOULD FOLLOW THE SAME RULE, WHICH, WHICH IS IT'S MASSING GRADUATING. IF IT'S RIGHT FOR TRAIL, IT SHOULD BE RIGHT FOR THE WEST OF ATCH, UH, PROPERTY. SO I, I WOULD BE MORE IN LINE TO SUPPORTING, UM, A MOTION TO, TO EXTEND THAT DEALT WITH BUILDING FIVE AND WITH THE WEST, UM, WITH REDUCING THE, THE MASSING ON THE WEST OF BUILDING ONE. WELL, WE HAVE A MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE THAT WE EITHER NEED A SECOND OR A NEW MO OR IT'LL FAIL AND WE NEED A NEW MOTION SECOND APPLICANT IN CONCURRENCE WITH THE, UM, 30 DAY EXTENSION OR THE EXTENSION. NO. SO THEN, SO WITH THAT IN MIND AND LOOKING AT EVERYTHING WE, NO, WE DO THINK THAT BECAUSE OF THE PREVIOUS AGREEMENTS TO POSTPONE FROM THE APPLICANT. [04:30:14] SO THE U D C REQUIRES THE CONCURRENCE OF THE APPLICANT FOR A POSTPONEMENT. CORRECT. I'M, I'M REQUESTING A FIVE MINUTE RECESS TO CONFER. WE WILL CALL A FIVE MINUTE RECESS CALLS, UH, H D R C BACK INTO SESSION. OKAY, SO THE APPLICATION APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED ON OCTOBER 18TH. ON NOVEMBER 6TH. IT WAS POSTPONED BY THE COMMISSION, UM, ON NOVEMBER 20TH. IT WAS POSTPONED AT THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT. AND ON DECEMBER 6TH IT WAS POSTPONED AT THE REQUEST OF THE APPLICANT. SO THAT'S 28 DAYS THAT WOULD BE ADDED TO THE 60 DAY TIMELINE. BUT THE 60 DAYS IS WHAT'S YESTER WOULD'VE BEEN YESTERDAY IF IT HAD NEVER BEEN, IF THE APPLICANT HAD NEVER, UM, ASKED TO EXTEND, WHICH MEANS THAT 28 DAYS IS THE 14TH OF JANUARY. AND SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE ACTION TODAY OR THE APPLICATION WOULD BE APPROVED. BUT, BUT NOW DIDN'T WE TAKE ACTION AND IT WAS, IT WAS DENIED THE APPLICATION THAT DENIED WAS A PREVIOUS APPLICATION. THE MOTION FAILED FOR THE, UM, ITEM THAT, OR THE MOTION THAT WAS MADE. SO, UM, YOU EITHER MAKE A NEW MOTION THAT PASSES OR, UM, THE ITEM IS AUTOMATICALLY CONTINUED AND IF IT'S AUTOMATICALLY CONTINUED, IT IS AUTOMATICALLY APPROVED. 'CAUSE THE NEXT MEETING WILL BE AFTER THE DEADLINE. SO I'M GONNA TRY TO MAKE ANOTHER MOTION. UM, WELL THE MOTION THAT COMMISSIONER VELASQUEZ MADE IS MOOT BECAUSE, BECAUSE THE APPLICANT DID NOT CON CONCUR, I DID NOT CONCUR WITH, UH, POSTPONEMENT. SO I NEED A NEW MOTION. OKAY, SO, UM, MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS WITH THE, UH, AREA THAT IS BEING PROPOSED AS GRAY AND SCHEMATIC MATCHING THE DETAILING OF BUILDING, BUILDING SIX, UM, AS PRESENTED FOR, UM, IF THAT IS APPROVED, UM, THAT WOULD GO TO STAFF FOR APPROVAL, UM, BASED ON THE DETAILING PROVIDED IN THE PACKAGE AS PRESENTED. SECOND, SECOND. I DON'T, IS IT, IS IT GOOD ENOUGH? SO FOR CLARIFICATIONS THAT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS MOTION. THE ONLY ADDITION IS THAT IT WOULDN'T COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION FOR FINAL APPROVAL. THAT STAFF WOULD ISSUE A CERTIFICATE PROVIDED THAT IT MATCHES BUILDING SIX. YEAH, AND THE, TO CLARIFY, THE, THE DIFFERENCE IS ALSO THAT THE DETAILING WOULD BE SET OUT AS PROPOSED. THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY GRAY AREA, UM, AS WAS PREVIOUSLY HESITANT ON THE COMMISSION. IT WOULD BE DICTATED BY THE DETAILING. IT'S ALREADY PROVIDED IN THE DRAWINGS. HAVE A MOTION. DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. NAY, NAY. DO A ROLL CALL. VOTE. UM, FERNANDEZ. AYE. FISH NAY. GIBBS. AYE. VELASQUEZ NAY. AREOLA. AYE. CARPENTER, AYY. RUBE. AYE. BOWMAN? AYE. BETTS. AYE. AS WAS AN AYE. LAO AYE. MOTION PASSES. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. A AGENDA ITEM [B-23 19-9355 Address/Description: 403 MONTANA HDRC Case No.: 2019-736 Applicant: Office of Historic Preservation Request: Finding of historic significance City Council Dist.: 2] B 23 4 0 3 MONTANA, UM, IS A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE SUBMITTED BY OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION STAFF. UM, STAFF HAS WITHDRAWN THAT APPLICATION FOR TODAY, AND IT'S NOT REQUESTING ACTION. HOWEVER, WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD, UM, AND WE'LL OFFER HER A CHANCE TO SPEAK AT THIS TIME. ELAINE VETER. ELAINE VETER ON BEHALF OF THE SAN, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, 3 9 1 1 4 [04:35:01] CREEK STREET, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CONCURS, UH, WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION THAT 4 0 3 MONTANA IS WORTHY OF BEING FOUND HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT. THIS QUEEN ANNE HOUSE IS A FINE EXAMPLE OF NOTED ARCHITECT FREDERICK GALIN, IT'S EARLY WORK IN SAN ANTONIO. HE WENT ON TO DESIGN SOME OF THE CITY'S MOST SIGNIFICANT CHURCHES, INCLUDING ST. MARY'S CHURCH, ST. GERARD'S, AND THE CHAPEL AT INCARNATE WORD AMONG OTHERS. MOREOVER, HIS CLIENT, NICHOLAS LEE PETRICK, PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN DEVELOPING MANY OF THE 1920 NEIGHBORHOODS. WE NOW FIND HISTORIC 4 0 3 MONTANA SURPASSES THE THRESHOLD NECESSARY FOR DESIGNATION AS A HISTORIC LANDMARK, AND WE URGE YOU TO VOTE ACCORDINGLY. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. PATTY ZZ, PRESIDENT, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. AND AGAIN, STAFF IS NOT REQUESTING ACTION ON THAT ITEM. SO WE CAN MOVE TO ITEM B 24. [B-24 19-9279 Address/Description: 324 LEIGH ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-626 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Sue Ann Pemberton/Mainstreet Architects Inc. Request: Construction of a 2-story addition to accessory structure, construction of 2-story accessory structure City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM B 24 H G R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 6 26 ADDRESS, 3 24 LEE STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING FINAL APPROVAL TO ONE, REMOVE A NON-CONTRIBUTING ONE STORY REAR SHED STRUCTURE TWO. CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY ADDITION TO CONNECT TWO EXISTING ONE STORY REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. THREE, CONSTRUCT A NEW FREESTANDING TWO STORY REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND FOUR, EXTEND THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY FROM LEE STREET TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. UTILIZING PERUS CRUSH GRAVEL STAFF IS RECOMMENDING FINAL APPROVAL WITH SEVERAL STIPULATIONS. THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE WINDOW CONFIGURATION APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. UH, MY NAME IS SUE ANN PEMBERTON AND I AM THE ARCHITECT FOR 3 24 LEE STREET. UH, THE, UH, ITEM THAT THAT, UH, THAT IS STILL AN ISSUE IS, UH, THE, THE, THE WINDOWS AT THE SECOND FLOOR LEVEL. UH, WE HAVE AGREED WITH STAFF'S CONCERNS OR, OR, UM, REVISED DESIGNS, UH, AS PER THEIR PAST, UH, CONCERNS. WE WERE ON THE AGENDA FOR THE LAST MEETING, WHICH OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T HAPPEN. AND SO IT GAVE US SOME TIME TO RESOLVE SOME THINGS. I THINK, UH, THEY HAD BEEN CONCERNED WITH THE HARDY PLANK SIDING, WHICH IS ON THE EXISTING STRUCTURES. WE WILL DO SMOOTH INSTEAD OF THE EXISTING TEXTURED. THEY WERE CONCERNED WITH THE, THE VISIBILITY, WHICH IS, IS NOT FROM THE STREET. YOU CANNOT SEE IT, UH, THIS EITHER ONE OF THE STRUCTURES. UH, SO, BUT WE DID LOWER THE PLATE HEIGHT BY TWO FEET, WHICH MEANS THAT, THAT THE HEAD HEIGHT OF COURSE, FOR THE WINDOWS IS ALSO LOWER. IF WE GO WITH WINDOWS THAT MATCH THE PROPORTIONS OF THE LOWER LEVEL, THE SILL WILL BE ON THE FLOOR, WHICH IS OF GREAT CONCERN TO OUR CLIENT. AND SO OUR REQUEST IS TO DO, UM, UH, SINCE WE'VE LOWERED THE, THE, THE ROOF LEVEL IS TO GO WITH A SQUARE WINDOW, UH, AWNING WINDOW AS OPPOSED TO A DOUBLE HUNG WINDOW. ALL, I THINK ALL OTHER ISSUES HAVE BEEN, UM, RESOLVED. WHAT'S THE SIZE OF THE WINDOW IN THE NORTH ELEVATION? THE NORTH ELEVATION IS, UH, THAT'S ONE THAT DOES GO TO THE FLOOR, BUT THAT'S FOR EGRESS. AND IF WE CAN GET BY WITH A SMALLER ONE THERE, WE WILL. BUT RIGHT NOW THAT'S, THAT'S FOR THE FIRE CODE REQUIREMENT. SO BECAUSE YOU LOWERED THE, SO BECAUSE YOU LOWERED THE PLATE, YOU CAN'T PUT THE SAME PROPORTION WINDOW IN THERE. YES. SO IT'S A TRADE OFF BETWEEN WINDOWS. YES, I, I AGREE WITH YOU. I WOULD MOVE FOR APPROVAL OF STIPULATIONS ONE, THREE, AND FOUR. I'VE REMOVED TWO, WHICH IS REFERENCING THE WINDOW. IS THAT CORRECT? SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [B-25 19-9231 Address/Description: 707 DAWSON ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-727 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Haley Serna/Open Studio Architecture Request: Construction of a 2-story, mixed use structure City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 25 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 7 27 7 0 7 DAWSON. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY MIXED USE BUILDING ON THE LOTTED 7 0 7 DAWSON LOCATED WITHIN THE DIGNITY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. CONSIDERATION OF TIME, I WON'T READ EACH OF THOSE INDIVIDUALLY, BUT THERE ARE NONE THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON OR EVENING, I GUESS. SORRY. UH, I'M EDDIE HERNANDEZ ON BEHALF OF OPEN STUDIO ARCHITECTURE. SO WE'RE THE, UH, FIRM WORKING ON THIS PROJECT. UH, SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, UH, HAVE MET WITH BOTH, UH, OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROUPS AND, UM, I THINK WE'VE TRIED TO ADDRESS, UH, MOST OF THEIR CONCERNS UP UNTIL NOW. UM, AND I THINK H D R [04:40:01] C ALSO HAS MADE THEIR COMMENTS TO US AND THEIR CONCERNS AND WE'VE, YOU KNOW, BEEN, UH, SENSITIVE TO THAT AS WELL. SO, UM, I'LL JUST KIND OF GIVE YOU GUYS A BRIEF RUNDOWN. THERE WAS BELIEVE IN THE LAST, UM, ITERATION, THERE WAS SOME QUESTION ABOUT THE LOT RATIO. UH, 50% IS, UH, I BELIEVE THE MAXIMUM. THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. UH, THE OTHER QUESTION WAS ABOUT IMPERVIOUS COVER. UH, WE'RE ABOUT 87% IMPERVIOUS COVER. UM, WE DID KIND OF LOOK AT SOME OF THE CONTEXT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, IN TERMS OF THE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES AND, UM, SOME OF THEM ARE COMPLETELY A HUNDRED PERCENT IMPERVIOUS. UH, SO WE'RE TRYING TO BE CONSCIOUS OF KIND OF WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND US, SO WE'RE NOT KIND OF ALIENATING OURSELVES. UM, BUT THAT'S ROUGHLY THE PERCENTAGE WE'RE AT AT THIS POINT. UM, ED, DO YOU MIND SCROLLING DOWN A LITTLE OR CAN I CONTROL HERE? OH, OKAY. UH, SO THIS IS KIND OF A OVERALL PERSPECTIVE OF THE BUILDING. UM, THIS IS THE LATEST ITERATION. UM, JUST KIND OF WANNA RUN THROUGH SOME BRIEF DETAILS. UH, IN REGARDS TO THE LAST COMMENTS, UM, I BELIEVE, UH, ONE OF THEM WAS THE, THE AWNINGS TO BE, UM, DROPPED BELOW THE TRANSOM WINDOWS AT THE STOREFRONT, WHICH WE'VE DONE. UM, WE ALSO ADDED SOME, UH, WINDOWS TO THE, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE, WHICH IS YOUR LEFT ON THIS, UH, VIEW HERE. YES. AND UH, ON THE OTHER SIDE AS WELL, WE'VE ADDED SOME TRANSOM ON, ON THE EAST SIDE, UH, WHICH IS NOT VISIBLE IN THIS PERSPECTIVE. UM, SOME OF THE OTHER ITEMS, I THINK, UH, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION, UH, THIS AFTERNOON ACTUALLY IN THE PARKING LOT I BELIEVE, OR OUTSIDE THAT, UH, THERE'D BE SOME CONCERN WITH CONGREGATION, UH, OUTSIDE OF THOSE STOREFRONTS. UM, WE'VE ACTUALLY RECESSED THE, THOSE ENTRANCES A LITTLE BIT. UM, THE SIDEWALK IS EIGHT FEET CURRENTLY AND WE RECESSED THE ENTRANCE THREE FEET, SO THAT GIVES A TOTAL OF 11 FEET, UM, FOR PEOPLE TO KIND OF, UM, PERHAPS WAIT FOR VALET OR, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS WHATEVER THEY DO. UM, UH, SO I'LL START WITH THE SITE AND THEN WORK MY WAY IN. UM, SO AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, UH, THE PARKING IS PRETTY MINIMAL. WE GIVEN THE SIZE CONSTRAINTS. UM, SOME OF THE COMMENTS ON, ON THE SITE WERE THE DRIVES WANTED TO KIND OF NARROW DOWN TO 10 FEET. UM, SO WE'VE, WE'VE, UM, DONE THAT. UM, WE MAY OPEN THEM UP A LITTLE BIT ONCE YOU GET BACK INTO THE PARKING AREA JUST FOR MANEUVERABILITY. BUT I THINK IN REGARDS TO RESPECT ON THE STREET FRONT AND THE CURB PEEL, UM, WE WANT TO KEEP IT KIND OF, UH, 10, THAT'S THE INTENT. UM, WE ARE ZERO LOT LINE ON THE FRONT AND SI ON THE LEFT SIDE THERE ON HACKBERRY, UH, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH MOST, UH, COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES. UM, CAN YOU PARDON THE INTERRUPTION FOR A SECOND? YEAH, SURE. GO. A QUICK QUESTION FOR STAFF. I'M TRYING TO PULL UP THE DOCUMENTS THAT I'M SEEING ON THE SCREEN. THEY DON'T APPEAR TO MATCH. THIS IS A LATE, UH, SUBMITTAL BY THE APPLICANT FOLDER. WE NO, THEY, I JUST LOADED THIS. I UNDERSTAND BEFORE THE PRESENTATION, UM, IF THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE, I COULD ACTUALLY GO THROUGH EACH OF THE, UH, STIPULATIONS OF STAFF AND ALLOW THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS THAT, UM, THAT MAY UH, BE A LITTLE MORE EFFICIENT. THE STAFF, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME STAFF HAS SEEN THESE AS WELL, CORRECT? CORRECT. WE DID HAVE A D R C AS WELL. I KNOW SOME OF IT. COMMISSIONER FISH, YOU WANNA COMMENT ON THAT BECAUSE I THINK SOME OF THE STIPULATIONS WERE NOW IS THE APPROPRIATE TIME. I WILL, BUT I DO, WE WANNA WALK, LET'S WALK THROUGH THE, SINCE WE HAVE NEW DRAWINGS. SO STIPULATION ONE WAS THAT THE APPLICANT INCREASED THE SETBACK OF THE EASTERNMOST BAY TO CREATE A TRANSITION BETWEEN THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION IN THE ADJACENT HISTORIC STRUCTURE SETBACK. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS, UM, THAT THIS UPDATED OR THIS CURRENT FLOOR PLAN HAS ADDRESSED THAT. UH, SO WE CAN REVISIT THAT IN A SECOND. STIPULATION TWO THAT THE APPLICANT PROVIDE INFORMATION REGARDING THE PROPOSED BUILDING TO LOT RATIO AS WELL AS THE PROPOSED AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVER IS NOTED IN FINDINGS. H AND SS. UH, THE APPLICANT NOTED THAT ON SLIDE ONE, WE CAN REVISIT THAT FOR, REVISIT THAT FOR ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION LATER. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS THAT REDUCE THE PERCEIVED MASSING OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION IS NOTED IN FINDING J. ADDITIONALLY, STAFF FINDS THAT MASSING [04:45:01] AND MATERIALS OF THE PROPOSED SECOND STORY PORTION SHOULD BE MODIFIED, IS NOTED IN FINDING P UH, BASED ON THE PERSPECTIVE THAT WAS SHOWN, UM, MOMENTARILY AGO, UM, RECENTLY, I DON'T BELIEVE, UH, WHAT IS SHOWN HERE ADDRESSES STAFF STIPULATION OR CONCERN. UM, THERE'S STILL A, A METAL CLADDING. IT IS STILL MORE OF A, UM, INDUSTRIAL FEEL RATHER THAN, UH, A COMMERCIAL FEEL THAT'S SHOWN IN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE WITH THE BRICK FOUR THAT THE APPLICANT ADJUST THE CANOPY LOCATION THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED BY THE APPLICANT. APPLICANT IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT STAFF WAS LOOKING FOR. UH, FIVE THAT THE PROPOSED METAL WINDOWS FEATURE AND APPROPRIATE INSTALLATION. DEB SEAL AND HEIGHT PROFILE IS NOTED IN FINDING O UH, IN WHAT WAS SUBMITTED EARLIER. THE APPLICANT HAD BEGUN TO ADDRESS THAT THIS IS MORE OR LESS OF A, UM, A REMINDER FROM STAFF THAT THROUGHOUT DEVELOPMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE, UM, ON THEIR MINDS, UH, STIPULATION SIX, THAT ADDITIONAL FENESTRATION BEING INCORPORATED INTO BOTH THE EAST AND WEST FACADE IS NOTED IN FINDING Q I BELIEVE THAT'S SHOWN HERE, UM, AS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. UH, SEVEN. IN REGARDS TO DRIVEWAYS, THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THAT, UM, ON THE SITE PLAN THAT HAS BEEN REDUCED, UM, MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT AND SERVICE EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED. THAT IS EIGHT. UM, I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS FLIPPING TO WHERE THAT'S SHOWN NOW. AND IN STIPULATION NINE THAT ALL PARKING BE SCREENED AND BUFFERED FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UH, THAT'S SOMETHING THE APPLICANT WILL NEED TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE LANDSCAPING PLAN. SO I BELIEVE STIPULATIONS 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, AND THREE, I BELIEVE ARE THOSE THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS IN DETAIL TODAY TO DETERMINE, UM, THE VIABILITY OF THIS CONCEPTUALLY. SO JUST TO, UH, LOOK AT, UH, RECOMMENDATION NUMBER ONE, CAN YOU HELP ME IDENTIFY THE EASTERNMOST BAY ON THE SCREEN? FAV, CAN YOU PULL UP GOOGLE DOCS SO WE CAN ALSO GOOGLE, UM, GOOGLE MAPS TO SEE THE ADJACENT PROPERTY? YEAH, AND I THINK THAT'S KIND OF ALSO WHAT WE DISCUSSED IN D R C AND, AND WHY WE WANTED, UM, WHAT WE FELT THAT, UH, THERE WAS A HIGHLY IMPORTANT TO FOCUS ON THAT CORNER. I CAN GIVE A BRIEF REPORT FROM THE D R C IF YOU'D LIKE. YES, PLEASE. UM, SO THIS IS ALREADY A COMMERCIAL SITE AND THE, THE APPLICANT WAS REFERENCING OTHER, UH, COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS WITHIN THE DISTRICT AND SHOWED A NUMBER, UM, THAT MOVE UP TOWARD THE STREET IN THE CORNERS, UH, OF THE PROPERTY. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS MUCH APPREHENSION ABOUT THE SETBACK ON, UH, DAWSON AND HACKBERRY. I THINK THERE WAS A BIGGER FOCUS ON HOW THIS, UH, NEW MASS RELATED TO, UH, THE RESIDENTIAL BLOCK THAT IT SITS ON, WHICH IS ALONG, UM, I BELIEVE THAT'S DAWSON. SO THAT WOULD BE 7 13 7 19 DAWSON, WHICH ARE HISTORIC RESIDENCES. UM, I THINK, UH, WHAT WE FOCUSED IN ON PROGRAMMATICALLY WAS THAT THAT WAS THE BACK OF HOUSE. THERE WAS A, A SOLID BAY PREVIOUSLY SHOWN ON THE EAST. WELL, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE EAST THAT, CAN YOU JUST SHOW US THAT SIDE? GO A LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT. NO, THE RIGHT SIDE THERE, THERE WAS BACK OF HOUSE, IT APPEARED TO BE TRASH AND STUFF. SO WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SETBACK, PARTICULARLY THERE AS IT RELATES TO THE ADJACENT RESIDENCE, WHICH YOU CAN'T QUITE MAKE OUT IN THAT IMAGE BECAUSE IT'S BEHIND THAT TREE, BUT IT'S ACTUALLY PRETTY CLOSE. IT'S ABOUT 15 FEET OFF. SO THERE WAS SOME CONCERN BOTH IN THE SETBACK, UM, THE WAY THE SCREENING OF THE SERVICES RELATED TO THAT AND THE HEIGHT OF THE WALL ON THAT SIDE. UM, UP HACKBERRY THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT LESS OF A CONCERN BECAUSE THERE'S A LARGER MULTI-FAMILY PROJECT UP THERE. SO THERE WAS LESS OF AN ISSUE THERE. I THINK THE SENSITIVITY WAS FOCUSED IN BRINGING THE SCALE DOWN, PARTICULARLY NEXT TO SEVEN 13 DAWSON AND HAVING APPROPRIATE PROGRAMMING HAPPENING THERE AT THE CORNER. I FEEL LIKE WE'VE, WE'VE EXPLAINED THAT TO THE APPLICANT. AND IF THAT STIPULATION STAYS ON AS IN THE CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE HAPPENING OR WOULD STAFF NEED? I MEAN, IT'S ONLY CONCEPTUAL, RIGHT? THIS IS CONCEPTUAL, BUT THERE ARE, UH, A FEW THINGS THE STAFF FINDS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED, UM, SO THAT, UM, THE APPLICANT WOULD HAVE A REALISTIC EXPECTATION OF STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. SO, UM, FOR INSTANCE, THE THE SECOND STORY MASSING AND THE DETAILING OF THAT STAFF FINDS THAT SHOULD BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED AT THE STREET LEVEL. UH, STAFF FINDS THAT THE EASTERNMOST BAY OF THE STRUCTURE SHOULD BE SET BACK TO BE MORE CONSISTENT WITH THAT OR TO AT LEAST, UH, GIVE A CUSHION TO THAT OF THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE NEXT DOOR. UM, AND THEN, SO THOSE ARE TWO THINGS THAT STAFF FINDS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED NOW [04:50:01] AT CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY, UM, WE NOTED THAT SHOULD BE DONE PRIOR TO RECEIVING THE RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. SO WE CAN EITHER MOVE THIS TO D R C AND HAVE ANOTHER MEETING WITH THE APPLICANT, OR YOU CAN, UM, MAYBE WITHDRAW AND COME BACK WITH ADDRESSING THOSE STIPULATIONS. WELL, CAN, CAN I SPEAK ON THAT? UM, OKAY. UH, WELL ED QUEUES THAT UP. WE WERE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE CONTEXT ON, ON THIS SAME STREET ACTUALLY. AND IF YOU CAN SEE, UM, THE FENCE RIGHT THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SCREEN. UM, AND IF YOU GO DOWN THE DAWSON A LITTLE BIT, UH, THEY HAVE A ZERO LOT LINE AND IT'S A MIRROR IMAGE OF WHAT KIND OF, THEY'RE ACTUALLY WORSE THAN WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS A PERFECT VIEW FOR OUR CONCERN ON THIS CORNER. OKAY. , UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA ARGUE WITH YOU GUYS, BUT THE STIPULATION THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS, UH, THE, THE RELATIONSHIP TO THE SEVEN 13TH DAWSON, WHICH IS A HISTORIC HOUSE, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING THE FLIP SIDE OF HERE. IT, THIS IS, YEAH, IT'S JUST TWO HOUSES OVER AND WE'RE THE THIRD PROPERTY OVER, I BELIEVE. OKAY. I DON'T THINK THERE, WE HAD A, AN ISSUE WITH THE SETBACK FROM THE STREET. IT WAS THE SIDE YARD, THE THE SIDE YARD SETBACK WHERE YOU'RE RUNNING A DRIVE THROUGH. OKAY. AND IN THIS INSTANCE YOU CAN SEE A FENCE. SO WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING COMING VERY CLOSE TO A CORNER LIKE THAT IS ALMOST A THREE STORY MASS BECAUSE EACH OF THESE LEVELS IS EX, EX STRETCHED VERTICALLY TO ACCOMMODATE THE PROGRAM THAT I BELIEVE YOUR, UH, YOUR CLIENT, UH, WANTED. AND I NEVER DID GET A VERIFIED HEIGHT OF THAT WALL, BUT I THINK I UNDERSTOOD THAT IT WAS WELL OVER 30 FEET. SO IF YOU IMAGINE THAT FENCE BEING 30 FEET HIGH NEXT TO THAT STRUCTURE. YEAH. THAT'S THE ISSUE EQUIVALENT OF HOW TO SOFTEN THE, THE ISSUE OF THAT CORNER PARTICULARLY NEEDING TO BE SOFTENED. OKAY. UM, THAT THERE WAS A GRADE, REMEMBER THERE WAS A GRADE. CAN YOU GO BACK TO THAT PICTURE THAT YOU JUST SHOWED? I'LL NOTE THIS GRADE IS EXAGGERATED. UH, THE APPLICANT CAN SPEAK TOWARD THE CORRECTION OF THE GRADE, CORRECTED THEM. IT'S CORRECTED IN THEIR DOCUMENTS THAT, THAT THEY'RE SHOWING ON THE SCREEN. WE DON'T HAVE DOCUMENTS THAT SHOW IT, BUT, BUT THE PREVIOUS WAY THAT WE SAW THIS, IT WAS A RELATIVELY STEEP GRADE, WHICH REALLY DISGUISED THE FACT THAT IT ACTUALLY IS A THREE STORY STRUCTURE BECAUSE, UH, IT WAS SHOWING THE THIRD STORY KIND OF SETTING CLOSURE TO THE GROUND. THIS KIND OF REVEALS THE HEIGHT TOWARD THE REAR OF THE MASS A LITTLE BIT MORE ACCURATELY, UH, THE ONE THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN. SO THAT THIRD STORY IS NOT, THE MASS IS NOT CONSIDERABLY CONCEALED, UH, BY THE SLOPE, UH, OF THE TERRAIN, BUT ITS PROXIMITY IS, UM, ORIENTED TOWARD THE, UH, SIX OR SEVEN OR EIGHT STORY BUILDING ALONG HACKBERRY. SO I I I, I DO FEEL LIKE I DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT WITH, UH, A CONCERN WITH THE SETBACK ON THE STREET. 'CAUSE WE DID TALK ABOUT MAYBE SCALING DOWN THE BUILDING ON THAT SIDE. I KNOW IT HAD TO DO DIFFERENT FOR YOUR PROGRAM. AND I THINK THAT WAS KIND OF ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I, YOU KNOW, IN, IN MY POINT OF VIEW IN, IN THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE IS THAT'S PROBABLY, I, I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF IS REFERRING TO THAT AS WELL. CORRECT. THAT THAT IS THAT EASTERN MOST PORTION OF THE BUILDING, THAT'S THE PORTION THAT STAFF IS, UH, NOTING NEEDS THE FEATURE OF SETBACK. I MEAN, IT'S CUTTING IT BACK OR PUSHING IT. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T, I DO AGREE WITH STAFF THAT, THAT WE'RE NOT THERE YET ON THAT MR. CHAIR. I, I, I, I KIND OF FEEL THAT, THAT THE, UH, THE BEST WAY TO, TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THROUGH DRAWINGS. I, I, I MEAN AS FAR AS MEETING THE STIPULATIONS OF STAFF. SO A COMMITTEE MEETING IS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST WAY TO, FOR THEM TO RETURN. UH, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE APPLICATION WITH STAFF'S FINDINGS AND THEN, AND THEN THEY'LL OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO, UH, YEAH. TO, TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS THAT MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS BY DRAWING. RIGHT? I MEAN, ACTUAL ILLUSTRATION, WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING THAT, THAT THEY WOULD TWO, THEIR STIPULATIONS THAT STILL REMAIN ARE NOT ENOUGH FOR CONCEPTUAL PROOF. OKAY. THEN CAN I JUST ADD ONE QUESTION, MR. FISH? UH, IS IT THE CONCERN, THE MASS OR BLOCKING OF VIEW, OR WHAT, WHAT IS IT? ALL OF THE ABOVE. OKAY. SO THE, THE, THE INSERTION OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULDN'T IMPAIR OR IMPEDE THE FRONT YARD EXPERIENCE OF THAT HOUSE, WHICH MEANS AS THE CLOSER IT GETS TO THE HOUSE, THE FURTHER IT SHOULD STEP BACK OFF THE STREET STAFF'S REFERRING TO THAT BAY MAYBE COMING DOWN IN SCALE AND PUSHING BACK. OKAY. AND THAT WAS PRECISELY WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THE D R C. THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY THINGS HERE. I THINK IT'S THE MOST SENSITIVE ASPECT OF THIS IS HOW THIS RELATES TO THE RESIDENTIAL PIECES ON THE BLOCK. SURE. [04:55:01] UM, WHEN IT COMES TO CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL, WE'VE GOT, IF YOU WERE HERE EARLIER, YOU CAN SEE SOME ISSUES WITH, UH, GRANTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL WITH OUTSTANDING ISSUES THAT INVOLVE SITE FOOTPRINT AND, UM, MORE SPECIFIC ELEMENTS OF HEIGHT. SO I'M A LITTLE BIT HESITANT TO GRANT TO SUPPORT, UH, A MOTION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. UM, BUT I THINK WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT FOR YOUR CLIENT IS TO UNDERSTAND, UH, WHERE WE, WHERE WE STAND ON A, A BUILDING LIKE THIS WITH THAT'S ORIENTED ABOUT THE CORNER WITH ABOUT THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE AND TWO, TWO STORY KIND OF STRETCHED TALL. AND I THINK IN THE D R C HEARING, UM, THERE WAS SUPPORT FOR THIS PROJECT ON THE WHOLE, BUT THE DETAILS WERE IMPORTANT. AND I THINK I, I HAVEN'T HEARD, UH, YET FROM THE COMMISSION OBJECTIONS IN PRINCIPLE TO THE PROJECT. AND IF THERE ARE COMMISSIONERS THAT HAVE CONCERNS THAT THE PROJECT AS A WHOLE, I THINK IT WOULD BE A GREAT TIME TO DISCUSS IT. I'M GONNA DO SOMETHING, I'M GONNA MOVE THIS TO D R C WITH THE OPTION OF THE APPLICANT GIVING THE OPTION OF D R C, UM, AND THE GUIDANCE THAT D R C WOULD BE FOCUSED ON STIPULATION ONE, TWO, AND THREE. AND, AND I HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT. UM, SO JUST IN GENERAL, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE PROJECT. I DO HAVE SOME PRO PROBLEMS WITH THE, THE MASSING OF THE PROJECT AS IT'S, AS IT'S DRAWN. UM, BUT THEN TO THE MATERIALITY, THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T REALLY TALKED ABOUT. UM, SOME OF THE STIPULATIONS ABOUT, UM, THE, THE METAL TYPES AND, AND, YOU KNOW, ED'S COMMENTS ABOUT, OR STAFF'S COMMENTS ABOUT THE, UM, MATERIALITY OF THAT METAL CHOICE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE BRICK. I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME OTHER THINGS THAT YOU COULD DO. I'M OKAY WITH THE CONCEPT OF THAT METAL, BUT HOW IT'S BEING PROPOSED, MAYBE THAT HELPS PULL AWAY FROM THE STREET AND HELPS, GIVES YOU, GIVE YOU SOME RELIEF FROM THAT THREE STORY MASS RIGHT THERE. AND I THINK THOSE ARE ALL GREAT THINGS THAT WE COULD EXPLORE IN THAT H G R C MEETING. SO I, I WOULD SECOND THAT MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND. MOTION TO SECOND? YES, MA'AM. THERE WERE TWO MOTIONS MADE. THE FIRST ONE WAS BY VELASQUEZ AND THE SECOND ONE WAS, UH, BY GRUE. WHICH MOTION ARE YOU MAKING A SECOND TO? I'LL REMOVE MY MOTION. UH, GRUE. YEAH. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND ON GREY'S MOTION. MOTION. AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO D R C. FURTHER DISCUSSION. FAVOR EVER SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM B 26 [B-26 19-9331 Address/Description: 911 N PINE ST 913 N PINE ST 915 N PINE ST 917 N PINE ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-699 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Ricardo Turrubiates/Terramark Request: Construction of four, 2-story residential structures City Council Dist.: 2] H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 6 99 9 11 THROUGH NINE 17 NORTH PINE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT FOUR TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES ON THE VACANT LOTS ADDRESSED IS NOT 11 9, 13, 9 15, AND NINE 17 NORTH PINE. THE LOTS DO NOT FRONT A PUBLIC STREET, BUT FRONT A PRIVATE DRIVE THAT FEATURES ACCESS TO NORTH PINE TO THE IMMEDIATE SOUTH OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION LOCATED AT 9 0 9. NORTH PINE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH Q STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING ITEMS PRIOR TO A RECOMMENDATION FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL FROM THE COMMISSION. THERE ARE NONE OF THOSE ITEMS, THE APPLICANT HERE, PLEASE. GOOD EVENING, I'M CHARLIE TURNER. I'M THE C E O AND, AND FOUNDER OF TERRAMARK URBAN HOMES, THE APPLICANT. UM, I GUESS THERE'S NOBODY HERE TO SPEAK IN THE, THEY DIDN'T ASK FOR ANY, OH, DID THEY ASK FOR SOMEBODY TO SPEAK? THERE WILL BE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD, BUT THAT'S AFTER MY PRESENT, AFTER YOU MAKE YOUR PRESENTATION. VERY GOOD, SIR. OKAY. JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I WASN'T OUTTA LINE ON THE, ON THE DEAL. YOU'RE FINE. OKAY. AND I CAN WORK MY KEYS RIGHT HERE. UM, WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE, UH, OBVIOUSLY IT'S GONNA BE A LONG DAY AND I'LL TRY AND GO THROUGH OUR PRESENTATION, UH, OF OUR PROPOSED PROJECT. UM, TODAY WE'RE ASKING FOR ONLY A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF THE, UH, SITE, UH, PLAN, AND IT'S MASSING. AND, UH, AND BASED ON THE CONVERSATIONS AS I SAW FROM PREVIOUS, UH, DEALS, IT'S BEEN IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT, UH, AT THE VERY BEGINNING. SO THAT AS WE BOTH BEGIN TO MOVE TOWARDS TRYING TO, UH, DEVELOP SOME PLANS THAT WOULD, UH, GO ON THROUGH THE FINAL APPROVAL PROCESS, WE START WITH SOMETHING THAT WE ALL FEEL GOOD ABOUT. AND, UH, UH, SO I ALSO WANTED YOU TO KNOW, UH, SO WE'VE PRESENTED, UH, WHAT WAS ACTUALLY SUBMITTED INITIALLY IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE ON THE SCREEN, UH, THIS EVENING. UH, IT [05:00:01] IS, UH, ONE THAT AFTER WE, UH, WE MET WITH, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WHICH WE MET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, UM, WHAT'S CALLED THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE. UM, WE MET WITH THEM, GOT A LOT OF COMMENTS BACK FROM OUR FIRST, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE FIRST, UM, DID THE APPLICATION. UH, WE ALSO MET WITH OUR, WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO THE NORTH OF US, UH, WHO, UH, HAS BEEN ACTIVE AND WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH HIM, MET WITH HIM PERSONALLY, AS WELL AS INVITED HIM TO EVERY MEETING. I THINK EVERY MEETING WE'VE HAD WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, AS WELL AS THE MEETING WE ALSO HAD WITH THE H D R C, I MEAN, WITH THE D R C, WHICH WE HAD LAST WEEK. UH, FROM ALL THOSE MEETINGS, WE GATHERED A LOT OF INPUT, UH, FROM EACH OF THOSE PARTIES, UH, UH, WANTING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE SENSITIVE TO WHAT WE'RE DOING OUT HERE. UH, SO I THINK THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO DO IS LOOK AT, UH, UH, THE SECOND, AND, AND JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THIS PROPERTY IS PART OF A PROJECT CALLED, UH, UH, UH, ALL OF, EXCUSE ME. UH, NOLAN, UH, OH, SORRY. UH, IT IS, UH, UH, HAZEN AND, AND PINE STREET. SORRY, IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY, GENTLEMEN, I'M SORRY. I'M SURE YOU'RE ABOUT THE SAME WAY. BUT, UH, UH, THIS, WHEN WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY INITIALLY FROM THE CHURCH, UH, AND I'VE INCLUDED, IF YOU'LL, SO I, I HIT WHICH TOGGLE? THIS ONE RIGHT HERE. BETTER DOWN. OH, THERE WE GO. UH, THIS IS, UH, SHOWING A, A AERIAL OF THE PROPERTY AND THE, THE PROPERTY. UH, AND I THINK THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS EXTREMELY CRITICAL TO UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE'RE WE'RE ASKING FOR HERE IN THIS APPROVAL. UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CORNER OF HAYES AND PINE, UH, YOU'LL SEE, UH, THREE HOUSES BEING CONSTRUCTED ON THE CORNER. THAT WAS THE FIRST, UH, UH, THOSE HAVE ALL BEEN COMPLETED NOW, AS WELL AS THE ONE, IF YOU GO UP PINE STREET TO THE NORTH, YOU'LL SEE 9 0 9 NORTH PINE ON THE, ON THE AERIAL. THAT HOUSE HAS ALSO BEEN COMPLETED. SO WE'VE COMPLETED THE FOUR HOUSES THAT NOW ARE ON THE, ACTUALLY THE PUBLIC STREET. YOU'LL ALSO NOTICE ON TOP OF THE, UH, UH, BUILDING CALLED TERRAMARK, UH, HQ. THAT'S OUR, THAT'S OUR PERSONAL OFFICE AND HEADQUARTERS OF OUR, OF OUR, UH, UH, OF OUR, OF OUR HOME, I MEAN, OF OUR BUSINESS. UH, THIS WAS A GIANT PARKING LOT THAT WAS SITTING BEHIND, UH, THE, UH, UH, THE PROPERTY. AND LET ME SHOW YOU JUST A CONTEXT OF SOMETHING. I'M GONNA TRY TO, WELL, THIS ISN'T MOVING. WHY ISN'T THAT MOVING? THE UP BUTTON, RIGHT? THERE WE GO. UH, LET ME SHOW YOU. OH, UP IS THE WRONG DIRECTION. GOT IT. THIS WAY. UH, THIS WILL SHOW YOU JUST REAL QUICKLY THE CONTEXT OF THE PROPERTY. UH, THE CHURCH WAS THERE, IT BURNED DOWN IN 2013, AND YOU SEE TO THE SLIDE TO THE RIGHT, WHAT WAS LEFT, UH, WAS, WAS REMNANTS OF THAT CHURCH. AND THEN THE BOTTOM LEFT HAND CORNER CORNER IS A, IS A, WAS THE, UH, THEIR FELLOWSHIP HALL, WHICH WAS A TILT WALL OFFICE, UH, UH, TILT WALL BUILDING. IT WAS ABOUT 14, 15, 16 FEET TALL. UH, BUT NOT A VERY, UH, HANDSOME BUILDING. UH, WE THEN, ONTO THE RIGHT, WE RECEIVED APPROVAL FROM H D R C AS WELL AS, UH, ALL THE OTHER AUTHORITIES. AND WE RENOVATED THAT BUILDING BY PUTTING, UH, A VERY ATTRACTIVE, UH, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, UH, UH, OIL FIELD PIPE ON THE OUTSIDE OF IT WITH, WITH GREEN WALLS. AND, AND THEN WE, WE HAVE SOME MORE PICTURE OF THAT WE CAN SHOW YOU LATER. AND WE ALSO TOOK A LOT OF THE PARKING LOT AND, UH, AND, AND DEMO, YOU KNOW, DEMOLISHED A LOT OF THE PARKING LOT IN, IN ORDER TO CREATE MORE GREEN SPACE. SO, LET ME BACK UP, UH, A LITTLE BIT. AND SO, AGAIN, LOOKING AT THE CONCEPT THERE, OUR PROJECT, WHICH IS THERE IN GREEN CALLED PINE LOFTS, IT WAS SITS BEHIND RIGHT THERE THAT SITS BEHIND THE, THE COMPLETED BUILDING ON PINE STREET AND ACROSS THE PARKING LOT FROM THE TERRAMARK, UH, HEADQUARTERS THAT IS NOW, CURRENTLY STILL AN ASPHALT PARKING LOT. SO OUR DEVELOPMENT, AS WE BEGIN TO TALK ABOUT DRAINAGE AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THIS COMMUNITY AS WELL AS OURSELVES, YOU WILL BE, ACTUALLY, I'LL SHOW YOU THROUGH SOME ADDITIONAL SLIDES, HOW WE'LL BE ACTUALLY MINIMIZING THE IMPACT OF DRAINAGE AND RUNOFF TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD BY VIRTUE OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING, UH, IN THIS, UH, IN THIS PLAN. LET'S MOVE ON. PAST ALL THIS, UH, I'M GONNA, THESE ARE JUST FORMS THAT WE, WE, UH, SHOW YOU ON OUR STREET THAT EXIST, UH, DOWN, UH, PINE STREET, UH, AND AROUND US AND ACROSS THE STREET FROM US, UH, THE LAUNDROMAT ACROSS THE STREET, YOU MAY HAVE SEEN SOME THINGS COMING ACROSS THE, THE COMMISSIONS, UH, UH, DIOCESE, UH, ON IT. UH, AND SO WE JUST, JUST JUST KIND OF SEE SOME FORMS THAT ARE OUT THERE. AND THEN, THEN WE, UH, STARTED LOOKING AT THOSE FORMS. AND, UH, AND REALLY THE KEY, THE FOUR KEY PILLARS OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS WE MA THEY SAID IN THE APPLICATION, OR IN THE, IN THE DEAL THAT THIS RES, THAT THESE WERE SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, THEY'RE REALLY NOT. THESE HAVE, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING BEEN ZONED AND PLANNED AS BEING, UH, WORK LIVED STUDIO, UH, UH, WHICH HAD BOTH THE ABILITY TO WORK AS WELL AS, UH, HAVE A RESIDENCE ON TOP. AND, AND I'LL SHOW YOU CONCEPTUALLY HOW THAT WORKS. THIS IS, IS A CON [05:05:01] CONCEPT OF THESE FOOTPRINTS. AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE VERY SMALL. THE FOOTPRINT'S ONLY ABOUT 570 SQUARE FEET. UH, AND I'LL SHOW YOU SOME ADDITIONAL, UH, UH, SITE PLANNING TO SHOW YOU HOW LITTLE OF COVERAGE WE HAVE ON THESE LOTS. UH, BUT THE BOTTOM, THE IDEA IS AS YOU COME INTO A VESTIBULE, AN OUTDOOR VESTIBULE CALLED THE OUTDOOR ENTRY, WHICH MAY BE RIGHT NOW, WE SHOWING IS MAYBE SOME SLIDING, UH, UH, DOORS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT ON THE OUTSIDE. AND THEN AT THAT POINT, YOU CAN COME INTO, UH, WHAT WOULD BE THE STUDIO YOU, UH, WHICH WOULD BE A STUDIO OPEN CONCEPT WITH A DINING ROOM OR A CONFERENCE TABLE THERE, MAYBE A KITCHENETTE OR A, A BAR OFF TO THE RIGHT POWDER ROOM FOR RESTROOM ACCESS, AS WELL AS MAYBE A UTILITY ROOM. AND THEN YOU CAN GO UPSTAIRS AND THAT'S WHERE SOMEBODY COULD HAVE A, YOU KNOW, A ONE BEDROOM, UH, UH, LIVING AREA WITH LIVING ROOM MASTER, UH, MASTER, UH, BATHROOM MASTER BEDROOM BATHS AND CLOSETS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO AN INDIVIDUAL COULD OWN ONE OF THESE, HAVE THEIR STUDIO OR THEIR SMALL BUSINESS, UH, DOWNSTAIRS AND LIVE UPSTAIRS, WHICH IS, IS REALLY NICE FOR A SMALL, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HAVE RENT ON A, ON A STUDIO AS WELL AS HAVE A PLACE TO LIVE. THIS GIVES SOMEBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO OWN SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD USE FOR BOTH PURPOSES. THE, UH, AND, AND THE WHOLE BUILDING IS ONLY ABOUT A THOUSAND TO 1100 SQUARE FEET. SO THEY'RE VERY SMALL STRUCTURES AND THEY CAN ALSO BE, 'CAUSE OF THEIR SIZE CAN BE AFFORDABLE. SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT BUILDING BIG STRUCTURES HERE. OKAY? THIS IS THE MASTER SITE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED, UH, BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION WHEN IT WAS PLATTED, AND WHEN WE GOT OUR ZONING ON THE PROPERTY, UH, SO THAT YOU SEE THE BOUNDARY THERE, ALL THESE LOTS AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PLANNED LIKE THIS AND HAVE HAD MADE VERY SMALL DEVIATIONS FROM THE PLAN THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, AS WELL AS DENSITY THAT WAS ALSO APPROVED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD AS PART OF OUR ZONING APPLICATION AND OUR ABILITY TO, UH, UH, PLANT THE PROPERTY. OKAY? AND THIS ALSO SHOWS CONTEXT OF ALL THE OTHER STRUCTURES AND BUILDINGS AROUND US. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE'LL TALK ABOUT, UH, THIS EVENING IS, UH, OUR DEVELOPMENT AND HOW IT MAY IMPACT, UH, OR, OR LESSEN THE, THE IMPACT TO THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH OF US. UH, AND THAT'S THE GENTLEMAN THAT WE'VE MET WITH SEVERAL TIMES. AND, UH, AND SO I WANT TO JUST SHOW YOU THE CONTEXT. HE HAS A MAIN HOUSE ON THE FRONT, PLUS THREE ANCILLARY BUILDINGS THAT WERE BUILT IN THE BACK OVER MANY YEARS. UH, THEY'RE THE ONE STORY BUILDINGS IN THE BACK. OKAY? SO I KINDA WANNA SHOW THE OVERALL CONTEXT OF WHAT WAS BEING DONE THERE. OKAY? THIS AGAIN, UH, SHOWS HOW THE SITE PLAN IS PROPOSED. UH, OUR BUILDING IS ON THE SOUTH, UH, AND ALL, EVERYTHING YOU SEE IN GREEN IS BASICALLY A PARKING LOT THAT WHEN WE'RE DONE THAT'LL THEN IT WILL BECOME GREEN SPACE. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, WE GOT SOME RATIOS UP THERE. UH, THE SITE, UH, IS ABOUT 1,595 SQUARE FEET. AND, UH, OUR FOOTPRINT IS ABOUT 570 SQUARE FEET. SO WE'RE ACTUALLY ARE BUILDING THE, THE SITE RATIO IS ONLY 35.7%. 'CAUSE THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT THE DENSITY AND ARE WE BUILDING TOO MUCH ON, ON ON THIS PROPERTY? AND I THINK 35% IS ACTUALLY A VERY, VERY, UH, VERY GOOD RATIO FOR, FOR, UH, FOR BUILDING FOOTPRINT, UH, TO, UH, UH, TO THE PROPERTY. UH, WE'LL ALSO BE DOING A LOT OF LOW IMPACT DEVELOPMENT, UH, UH, AS WE DO THIS, AS FAR AS REMOVING, UH, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE PERVIOUS MATERIALS RIGHT NOW. AND, AND EVEN THE PARKING AREAS AND STUFF THAT WE PROPOSE TO PUT IN, WE ACTUALLY DO THOSE WITH LOW IMPACT AS WELL, WHERE WE HAVE GRAVEL IN THE MILL, WHICH CATCHES ALL THE WATER OFF THE, OFF THE, OFF THE PAVING AND, UH, AND, AND HOLDS IT FOR A WHILE UNTIL THEN IT'S RELEASED INTO THE GROUND OR DOWN THE STREET. OKAY? AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT DRAINAGE. 'CAUSE WHAT WE HEARD FROM, FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, FOLKS AS WELL AS OUR NEIGHBOR AND AS WELL AS THE MEETING THAT WE HAD WITH D R C, WAS THAT DRAINAGE. AND, AND THE EFFECT OF DRAINAGE TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES IS VERY IMPORTANT. AND IT'S, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO US AS WELL. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT, WE'LL, OUR PLAN WILL BE TO LEMME SHOW YOU THE NEXT, SOME NEXT SLIDES. WE WERE ALSO ASKED TO, SO IN THIS CONCEPT, WE STARTED WITH, WITH BASICALLY THREE FORMS. AND, AND WE THOUGHT WE'D DO KIND OF THE SAME FORM FOUR TIMES. THEN WE STARTED MOVING DOWN THE LINE. AND THEN FROM THE MEETINGS WE HAD BEFORE, YOU'LL SEE IN ANOTHER SLIDE HOW WE'VE COME TO, TO CREATING SOME PRETTY NICE, UH, ROOF FORMS THAT WE CAN, WE CAN, UH, WORK WITH. AND, UH, AND THEN IF WE MOVE ON DOWN AND MAKE SURE I GET, OH, GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION AGAIN, SORRY ABOUT THAT. OKAY. THE, THEY ASKED US TO DO, THIS IS A CROSS SECTION ACROSS THE SITE PLAN. AND WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE THE CONTOURS TOO WELL ON THIS, ON AT LEAST, AT LEAST ON THE SCREEN. BUT WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY HAVE A NINE FOOT FALL FROM OUR, UH, WESTERLY PROPERTY TO THE STREET. AND, AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, YOU'LL SEE IN SOME OF THE THREE D PERSPECTIVES, WE'RE GONNA SHOW YOU HOW IT CONTINUES TO FALL DOWN THE, DOWN OUR PAVING AND DOWN THE STREET. AND, AND I THINK IT ACTUALLY WORKS OUT REAL NICELY ONCE YOU SEE HOW THE DRAWINGS WORK. BUT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE'RE INVITING 'EM UP INTO THESE FOUR SMALLER LOTS [05:10:01] AND HAVING TO, BEING ABLE TO STAIR STEP THEM DOWN AS THE, AS THE, AS THE TRAIN, UH, DICTATES, UH, IS NICE, BUT ALL THE WATERS YOU CAN SEE HEADS TO THE, TO THE EAST AND SLIGHTLY TO THE NORTH. AND WHAT WE'LL BE DOING IS CAPTURING ALL THAT WATER AND BRINGING IT ALL BACK TOWARDS THE, TOWARDS OUR PROPERTY. AND I'LL SHOW YOU HERE. AM I GOING THE RIGHT DIRECTION AGAIN? NOPE, NOPE, NOPE. SORRY. UH, THEN HERE AGAIN, THIS SHOWS BETTER HOW THE, HOW THE CONTOURS WORK. AND WE BEGAN TO THROW SOME STRUCTURE, UH, IN TERMS OF THE ELEVATION OF HOW WE CAN TAKE SOME OF THOSE FORMS AND CREATE SOME PITCHED ROOFS, SOME HIP ROOFS, SOME, UH, LOW, LOW, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, LOW PITCHED ROOFS AND BEGIN TO, IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM DRAWING, YOU CAN SEE HOW WE'RE SHAPING ALL THE, THE WAY THE, THE ROOFS CAN BE PITCHED IN ORDER TO CARRY THE WATER TO THE FRONT OR TO THE SIDE. AND WHEN WE CARRIED IT TO THE SIDE, WE'LL BE ABLE TO COLLECT ALL THAT IN, IN, UH, IN, IN, UH, GUTTERS AND, AND DIRECT ALL THAT, ALL THAT FLOW FROM ALL THE ROOF AND EVERYTHING IN THE FRONT. WE'LL ALL END UP COMING DOWN THE ROAD AND NOT HAVE ANY, UH, AND WOULD NOT IMPAIR ANYTHING TO, TO THE PROPERTY OWNER TO THE NORTH. SO, WE'LL, UH, AND ONCE WE GET INTO FINAL PLANS, THAT'LL ALL BE DONE BY AN ENGINEER AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THROUGH A FINAL GRADING PLAN AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF. AND WE ALSO SHOWED SOME HEIGHTS, WE BEGIN TO SHOW HOW WE CAN VARY THE HEIGHTS, THE, THE HOUSE TO THE RIGHT. UH, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THAT UPPER, UH, DIAGRAM IS ACTUALLY THE HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT. IT HAS ABOUT 25 AND A HALF FEET ABOVE, UH, RIGHT THERE ABOVE THE, UH, NATURAL GROUND. AND THEN THE BUILDINGS TO THE, TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, UH, EXCUSE ME, JUST TO THE LEFT OF THAT IS ONE THAT WE CAN SAY, HEY, WE CAN START WITH A LITTLE BIT LOWER PROFILE NEXT TO THAT ONE. ALSO THE ONE THAT'S CLOSEST TO THE HOUSE TO THE NORTH OF US. UH, WE'D HAVE A LITTLE BIT LOWER. AND WHAT WE DID, WE PITCHED THE, WE BROUGHT THE, THE EVE HEIGHT DOWN LOWER ON THE RIGHT AND THEN PITCHED IT UP. UH, SO YOU'D HAVE KIND OF A VAULTED CEILING THERE. AND THEN, UH, AS YOU CAN KIND OF SEE FROM THE FORM DOWN BELOW THAT ELEVATION, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HOW THE ROOF FORMS WOULD WORK. AND THEN YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HOW WE KIND OF WANTED TO VARY THE THREE, THE ELEVATIONS AS WE, WE BEGAN TO BUILD THOSE MASSES. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASKED US TO DO, WAS TO SEE IF WE COULD MAKE THEM LOOK A LITTLE, LITTLE UNIQUE TO EACH OTHER AS OPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE A TOWNHOUSE PROJECT WHERE THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME. UH, SO WE THOUGHT WE COULD DO THAT THROUGH ALL VARIOUS TYPES OF REFORMS THAT WE COULD LOOK AT. OKAY. UM, IN THE END, LET'S SEE, THIS IS JUST AN ENLARGEMENT OF THE SITE PLAN OF WHAT WE'D BE DOING. UH, THE GREEN SPACE, THE SETBACK, UH, FROM THE BACK, UH, UH, 'CAUSE THIS IS I D Z, OUR SETBACK IS, IS REALLY JUST, UH, FIVE FEET, BUT WE HAVE IT ABOUT EIGHT AND A HALF FEET, ALMOST NINE FEET, WELL, EIGHT AND A HALF FEET. SO WE'VE ACTUALLY TRIED TO KEEP IT FROM THE BACK PROPERTY AND LINE ORDER TO CREATE A LITTLE BIT MORE GREEN SPACE IN THE BACK, UH, FROM THE FRONT, UH, WHICH IS A COMMON DRIVE, YOU KNOW, TO US IN OUR, IN, IN OUR OFFICE, YOU KNOW, TO, TO THE COMMON DRIVE IN OUR OFFICE BUILDING. UH, SO WE'VE GOT THAT SET BACK IN ALL THE PLACES THAT YOU SEE THERE, YOU KNOW, CALLED LANDSCAPING AND SO FORTH, THAT'LL ALL BE TREES AND LANDSCAPING. SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO A NICE TREE SCAPE, WHICH YOU'LL SEE IN SOME THREE D UH, UH, SO WE'RE ACTUALLY SITTING BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE TO THE RIGHT THAT'S ALREADY BUILT. SO EVERYTHING WE'RE DOING IS SITTING FURTHER OFF THE STREET AND BEHIND, UH, UH, THAN THAT, UH, EXISTING BUILDING ON THE RIGHT. OKAY. SO THIS GIVES YOU A CONCEPT OF IF YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN PINE STREET, HEADING NORTH, YOU SEE OUR BUILDING, YOU KNOW, UH, UH, TO THE LEFT. AND THEN THE, THE FINISHED HOUSE IS TO THE RIGHT. AND KIND OF THROUGH THAT WINDOW, AS YOU'RE COMING THROUGH THERE, YOU'LL BEGIN TO SEE, SEE OUR PROJECT, AND THIS IS IF YOU WERE STANDING, IF YOU'RE KIND OF STARTING TO COME UP THE DRIVEWAY, WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE, AND AGAIN, IT GOES IN AND OUT AND, AND SO FORTH, WHICH YOU CAN KIND OF SEE AGAIN, THIS IS ANOTHER VIEW OF IT. AND AS YOU GET UP INTO THE PROPERTY, AND THIS IS ANOTHER KIND OF A VIEW KIND OF FROM THE AERIALS, KIND OF SHOWING HOW THOSE FOUR DIFFERENT FORMS CAN BE OR THE FOUR DIFFERENT HOUSES COULD BE FORMED. OKAY. AND, AND THEN I WENT AHEAD AND LISTED THE RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, FROM O H P AND, UH, WHICH WE CAN GO THROUGH AND WE'D LIKE TO, AND WE KIND OF REORGANIZED IT, SAY, HEY, ITEMS ONE AND, AND THREE OF THEIR STIPULATIONS, WE'RE FINE WITH, WE AGREE WITH ALL THAT. THAT'S, THAT'S GOOD. UH, WE WOULD LIKE TO SAY THESE ITEMS THAT ARE LISTED AS, AS, UH, AS FIVE SEVEN, THESE WOULD BE THINGS LIKE THE WINDOWS AND FENESTRATION AND ALL THAT, AND MATERIALS AND ALL THAT. THAT WOULD REALLY, WE BELIEVE ONCE WE GET THE CONCEPTUAL PART APPROVED, WE WOULD BE COMING BACK WITH, WITH A SET OF PLANS THAT BEGINS TO ADDRESS ALL THAT, GO THROUGH THE D R C PROCESS, GO THROUGH ALL THAT TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, ROOF FORMS, UH, PITCHES, UH, FENESTRATIONS, UH, ALL THOSE SORT OF THINGS WOULD BE COMING THROUGH THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS. BUT WE KIND OF WANNA MAKE SURE WE HAVE A FOOTPRINT AND WE'RE ALL OKAY WITH, WITH THE DENSITY AND WHAT WE'RE DOING, SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY BEGIN TO ACTUALLY WORK OVER THE NEXT MONTH OR SO BEFORE YOUR NEXT MEETING AND START PUTTING AN APPLICATION FOR A PERMANENT, UH, UH, FOR FINAL APPROVAL. BUT THAT PROCESS WILL [05:15:01] GO ON WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND EVERYBODY AND KIND WALK THROUGH THAT PROCESS REAL SLOWLY TO GET THIS DONE. RIGHT. OKAY. AND THEN THE LAST THING I THINK WE WANNA TALK ABOUT IS, OH, WE'RE GOING DOWN THIS WAY. UH, THOSE WOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF. AND SO THE ONES THAT WE WANNA ADDRESS TODAY REALLY JUST FOR YOUR, IS IN THIS CONCEPT IS, YOU KNOW, UH, IS THE, THEY TALKED ABOUT THE ENTRANCE ELEMENT. THIS WAS WHERE THEY TALKED ABOUT THEY DIDN'T THINK THE FRONT DOOR, AND WE WE'RE NOT ON A PUBLIC STREET, SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY HOUSES THAT WE COULD FACE THE PUBLIC STREET. AND SINCE THIS IS ON A COMMON DRIVE, THAT'S PART OF OUR LITTLE BUSINESS PARK, UH, THE FRONT DOOR THAT WE HAD, WHICH WAS A SLIDING DOOR, IS NOT ACTUALLY THE ENTRY INTO THE HOME. IT'S MERELY A, A THING THAT YOU CAN OPEN UP AND CLOSE UP IN THE EVENING AND BE ABLE TO GO INTO THE ENTRY. SO WE'D JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, CONCEPTUALLY WE'D LIKE TO SEE IF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION ON THAT. UH, AND THEN, 'CAUSE THAT'S KIND OF KEY TO THE WAY THAT THIS LIVE WORK, YOU KNOW, KIND OF CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, WOULD WORK. AND, UH, AND THEN THE, UH, THE FORMS, UH, ABOUT GOING WITH THE GUIDELINES WE'RE, WE'RE RECOMMENDING SOME VARIOUS FORMS THAT WE CAN DO SIMILAR TO WHAT WE WE'RE SHOWING YOU. UH, BUT WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANY FINAL, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU GOTTA HAVE A THREE ON TWO AND WHATEVER. WE'RE OPEN TO THE RIGHT PITCHES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT WE'D COME BACK IN A FINAL FORM AND GET THAT. BUT WE JUST KINDA WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ALL KIND OF OKAY WITH THE IDEA THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME, SOME MAYBE SOME, SOME PITCH ROOFS AND SOME HIP ROOFS AND SOME, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A VARIATION OF THOSE THINGS TO KIND OF MAKE THEM INTERESTING AND HAVE THEIR OWN ARCHITECTURE IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE HERE. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO BE SOMETHING LIKE WHAT WE BUILT ON PINE STREET OR HAY STREET. WE THINK IN THIS CONTEXT, WITH THE BUSINESS BUSINESS KIND OF A, OF A FEEL BACK IN THE, YOU KNOW, ACROSS FROM OUR OFFICE BUILDING EVERYTHING THAT THIS, UH, IT'S APPROPRIATE. SAME THING WITH MATERIALS. WE'D COME BACK WITH SOME NICE MATERIALS WHICH MIGHT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT INCLUDE SOME VERTICAL, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, METAL PANELING AND THINGS LIKE THAT WOULD MAKE 'EM KIND OF, KIND OF INTERESTING. UH, SO, AND THEN THE PARKING, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY THEIR COMMENT ABOUT NO PARKING IN FRONT, BUT, BUT BECAUSE THESE ARE STUDIOS AND YOU KNOW, IF I, IF WE GO BACK TO THE, LEMME SEE IF I CAN GO BACK TO THE SITE PLAN. WE BE BASIC. YEAH. EXCUSE ME. BEFORE WE GET INTO, UH, COMMISSIONER COMMENTS AND, AND QUESTIONS. UH, THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION. WE DO HAVE CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. OKAY. OKAY. AND WE'LL CALL YOU BACK UP. YOU BET. GREAT. THANK YOU. ELAINE VETER. ELAINE VETER, 39 11 FOREST CREEK STREET. I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE SAN ANTONIO, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONCURS WITH THE O H P DENIAL RECOMMENDATION FOR THIS PROJECT. THE LOT SIZES OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH EXISTING LOT SIZES WITHIN THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. THE PROPOSED INTRODUCTION OF CONTEMPORARY DESIGN ELEMENTS SUCH AS CANTILEVER PLANES AND FLAT ROOFS IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE ESTABLISHED RESIDENTIAL DESIGN VOCABULARY FOUND WITHIN THIS AREA. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, PATTY ZINES PRESIDENT. THANK YOU. UM, NICHOLAS SPIKER. UM, MR. SPIKER WILL RECEIVE SIX MINUTES. EVELYN BROWN AND VALERIE CORTEZ HAVE YIELDED THEIR TIME. HELLO? GOOD EVENING. OH, SORRY. TOO CLOSE THERE. GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS NICHOLAS SPIKER. I'M EXCITED TO BE HERE THIS EVENING. THIS WILL BE MY FIRST H D R C MEETING. UH, SO I LIVE AT 9 1 9 NORTH PINE. I WAS REFERRED TO MANY TIMES BY THE APPLICANT. I HOPE YOU ARE JUST AS CONCERNED AS I AM AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS OF THE UNPREPARED AND VAGUE NATURE OF THE PRESENTATION. UM, I PREPARED THESE SLIDES HERE. YOU CAN SEE THERE IS MY HOME ON THE NORTH SIDE, 9 1 9 NORTH PINE. IT HAS QUITE A BEAUTIFUL AND GRUESOME HISTORY. FRED CARRASCO LIVED IN MY HOME. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS. I DON'T KNOW THE MAN, I NEVER DID, BUT I DON'T THINK HE WOULD APPROVE OF THESE DESIGNS. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, I'M NOW HAVING FIVE HOMES ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF MY PROPERTY, BORDERING MY PROPERTY. TERRAMARK IS ALSO PROPOSING 18 MORE. NOT AT THIS MEETING, BUT IN THE FUTURE. SO IN THE FUTURE, I'M LOOKING AT HAVING SEVEN HOMES BORDERING MY PROPERTY. PLEASE CONSIDER THAT. UM, SO SOMETHING ELSE I WANTED TO MENTION. THE DRAINAGE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP ON NOVEMBER 17TH, THEY DID NOT, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT DRAINAGE. THEY PUT INTO THAT, THAT PLAN AFTER I BROUGHT UP THE CONCERNS ON NOVEMBER 17TH, UH, THE APPLICANT SAYS THEY'VE WORKED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY'VE WORKED WITH END DECK. THIS IS A COMMITTEE OF THREE PEOPLE. I HAVE A, THIS IS A PETITION I HAVE GARNERED OVER THE LAST TWO WEEKS, THREE TO FOUR HOURS A DAY GOING FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE. THIS IS 64 SIGNATURES. THIS, THESE AREN'T SIGNATURES FROM ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS PEOPLE IMPACTED RIGHT THERE. PEOPLE IMPACTED BY THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS BILL. NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. OR DO I HAVE THIS [05:20:01] COOL? HOW DO I USE THIS? OKAY, SO I'VE PREPARED THIS MAP TODAY. I ACTUALLY GOT THREE MORE HOUSES. UH, THE BLUES ARE PEOPLE WHO'VE SIGNED. IF YOU SEE BLUE IN A YELLOW DOT, THAT INDICATES PEOPLE WHO'VE SIGNED, WHO'VE BEEN HERE FOR 40 YEARS OR MORE. I CALL THEM LEGENDARY SIGNERS. THE BLACK INDICATES VACANCIES. THE PURPLE INDICATES PEOPLE, UH, WHO I KNOCKED AND THEY DIDN'T ANSWER THIS PURPLE ON HAZE THAT YOU SEE. THEY HAVE SIGNED THE PURPLE THAT YOU SEE THE FOUR NEXT TO UP THERE. THAT MEANS I WENT THERE FOUR TIMES. I WENT THERE A FIFTH TIME TODAY, THEY HAVE SIGNED. WHAT THIS MEANS IS WE HAVE THE ENTIRE BLOCK IN OPPOSITION OF THIS CONSTRUCTION, LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE HOME ON THE BLOCK. SO TO SAY THAT THEY HAVE WORKED WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT IS JUST SIMPLY NOT TRUE. THE O H P AND MORE, MOST EGREGIOUSLY, D H N A, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD HAVE GONE HOME TO HOME, NOT ME. I WORK FIVE JOBS. I AM BUSY. I HAD TO TAKE OFF TIME FROM WORK RIGHT AROUND CHRISTMAS TIME TO DO THIS FOR THE CITY TO SHOW THEM PEOPLE CARE. PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN. THE RED DOTS ARE TWO THAT DID NOT SIGN THIS RED DOT ON THE LOWER RIGHT CORNER. THAT IS A PERSON WHO JUST BOUGHT THEIR HOME TWO MONTHS AGO. THE RED.IN THE TOP. THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH TERRAMARK FOR YEARS. OKAY? UH, I HOPE I'M CLEAR ABOUT THAT MOVING FORWARD. SO AFTER FACTORING OUT THE VACANCY AND NO ANSWERS THIS, I DID THIS YESTERDAY. I GOT TWO MORE HOUSES. 97% ARE OPPOSED IN THE AREA. 5% SUPPORT. I HOPE YOU SEE HOW EGREGIOUS THAT IS. THESE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT IT. INADEQUATE ACCESS TRASH, UH, RIGHT NOW, TERRAMARK PARKS, THEIR CARS, THEIR EMPLOYEE CARS IN THAT LOT. WHERE ARE THOSE GOING TO GO? I HAVE A PHOTO IN THIS SLIDE TO SHOW YOU THE TRUE PROOF OF THAT. NO SPACE INCONSISTENCY. TOO MANY HOUSES, PLOT SIZE TOO SMALL. DRAINAGE. I'M VERY CONCERNED WITH THE DRAINAGE AND THEIR PLAN THAT THEY PROPOSED TODAY WITH THE FRENCH DRAIN. THAT IS GOING THROUGH MY NEIGHBOR. 9 0 9 NORTH PINE, A HOUSE THAT THEY BUILT WHO SIGNED THIS, SIGNED THIS OPPOSITION. ISN'T IT ILLEGAL FOR DRAINAGE PLANS TO GO THROUGH SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY? IS SHE GONNA GIVE APPROVAL FOR THIS? I'M NOT SO SURE. HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD. TOO MUCH FOR BLOCK NON-CONFORMING. TOO DENSE, DOESN'T FIT. APPEARANCE. OKAY. THESE ARE THE EXAMPLES OF TERRAMARK AVA'S CONTEXTUAL ELEMENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. EVERY HOUSE YOU SEE HERE HAS SIGNED MY PETITION. FIRST OF ALL, SECOND OF ALL, THE HOUSE IN THE TOP LEFT, THIS HOUSE WAS BUILT IN 1900. THESE DESIGN ELEMENTS, THIS IS NOT WHAT TERRAMARK JUST PROPOSED. IF THEY WERE PROPOSING SOMETHING LIKE THIS, MAYBE THE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD AGREE. THE HOUSE IN THE TOP RIGHT. THIS IS A NEW CONSTRUCTION. IT IS NOT OKAY TO USE NEW CONSTRUCTION AS YOUR CONTEXTUAL ELEMENT FOR HISTORICAL NEIGHBORHOOD SUCH AS DIGNITY HILL. THESE TWO HOMES IN THE BOTTOM, SHARI, SHE SIGNED THIS, UH, PETITION THAT IS ALSO A NEW CONSTRUCTION. NOT FAIR TO USE THAT AS CONTEXTUAL ELEMENTS. NINE 16 NORTH MESQUITE. I WENT THERE TWICE. THEY DID NOT SIGN. THAT'S ABOUT A HALF MILE AWAY. THIS HOUSE RIGHT HERE. NOW THAT THE EXTERNAL, THAT'S A BOX A SQUARE. SO THAT IS STARTING TO MEET THE CONTEXTUAL ELEMENTS THAT TERRAMARK IS PROPOSING. UH, BUT THEY SIGNED RICK ARCHER. HE SIGNED MY PETITION. I'M, I'M TRYING TO MAKE IT CLEAR HERE. OKAY, THESE ARE, THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL DESIGN I GOT ON NOVEMBER 17TH. IT'S BEEN CHANGED THREE TIMES. I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND HOW UNFAIR THAT IS TO ME. TO THE PERSON TR TRYING TO SAVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE CON CON CONSISTENT CHANGES. THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL BOXES. SO NOW I'M GONNA SHOW YOU SOME EXAMPLES OF HISTORICAL HOMES ON THE BLOCK. HISTORICAL HOME. HISTORICAL HOME. HISTORICAL HOME. HISTORICAL HOME. BEAUTIFUL. HISTORICAL HOME. HISTORICAL HOME. HISTORICAL HOME. OKAY. THE COMMUNITY VOTE THAT NEVER HAPPENED. I ASKED FOR THIS TO BE BROUGHT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING SO WE COULD VOTE ON IT AS WE DO FOR OTHER THINGS. UH, GOT THIS VOTE. NEVER HAPPENED. OKAY, SO I'M SHOWING THIS FRENCH DRAIN 9 0 9 NORTH PINE, MY NEIGHBOR, SHE SIGNED THIS PETITION. THE FRENCH DRAIN'S GOING THROUGH HER PROPERTY. IS SHE GONNA BE OKAY WITH THAT? NOT SO SURE. THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT DEMOING THIS, UH, PARKING LOT HERE. HOW ARE THEY GONNA DO THAT? WHEN THE HOUSE IS ALREADY BUILT HERE FACING PINE AND MOST EGREGIOUSLY ABOUT THIS PROJECT? NONE OF THESE HOUSES ARE FACING A STREET. THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES THAT COME WITH THAT. AREN'T THE H D R SITE C GUIDELINES? DON'T THEY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT NO FRONT PARKING? WELL, WHAT ABOUT THIS PARKING HERE THAT'S FACING A DRIVEWAY? IS THAT CONSIDERED FRONT PARKING? THESE HOUSES AREN'T FACING A STREET. THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED IN DIGNITY HILL. WE DO NOT WANT THIS PRECEDENT TO OCCUR. I HAVE THREE FEET OF EROSION. THIS IS THE BEGINNING. THIS IS THE FRONT. THERE'S MY NEIGHBOR AT 9 0 9 NORTH PINE. THIS IS ABOUT A FOOT OF EROSION. THAT'S SIX MINUTES. OKAY? UM, SO I HAVE A LOT MORE TO SAY, BUT I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WE AS A NEIGHBORHOOD, 64 PEOPLE WHO HAVE SIGNED THE ENTIRE 900 BLOCK DOES NOT AGREE WITH THIS. WE WILL FACE A COMPROMISE IF THEY'RE WILLING TO BUILD TWO HOMES AND TO AGREE, SIT DOWN WITH US, THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE BLOCK, AND AGREE TO A COMPROMISE. WE DON'T WANNA STOP DEVELOPMENT. WE WANT DEVELOPMENT THAT'S REASONABLE AND THAT MEETS THE CONTEXTUAL ARCHITECTURAL [05:25:01] ELEMENTS OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS. HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. I'M LULU FRANCOIS. GOOD EVENING. LULU FRANCOIS. 17. NODAL NOLAN. AS YOU CAN TELL, THERE'S A LOT OF PASSION ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT. UM, ONE ANOTHER ISSUE THAT THAT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT WAS BRIEFLY MENTIONED WAS THE, UM, STORM OR THE DRAINAGE FROM, FROM RAIN. THE NEAREST STORM DRAIN IS, UM, SOUTH OF THIS PROPERTY AROUND THE CORNER ON LAMAR. SO SOMEONE HAS ASKED ME TO PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT Y'ALL ARE AWARE OF THAT. THAT IS A HUGE CONCERN FOR PEOPLE. IT'S, THERE'S AN ISSUE NOW WHEN THEY WERE DEVELOPING THESE THREE HOUSES AND IT RAINED THE MUD AND THE, AND THE, AND THE DRAIN OFF. AND, AND, UM, THE RUNOFF THAT COLLECTED JUST ON THE CORNER OF HAYES, OR IS THAT HAZEN. AND, UH, PINE WAS HUGE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT, THE DRAINAGE IS NOT VERY GOOD. AND WITH THESE THREE ADDITIONAL, UM, BUILDINGS OR THE THE PROPOSED BUILDINGS, I THINK THAT WOULD CAUSE EVEN MORE PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THE DRAINAGE IS DOWN THE STREET AROUND THE CORNER ON LAMAR. SO THAT WAS, UM, I WAS REQUESTED TO MAKE THAT, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT Y'ALL WERE AWARE OF THAT. BESIDES THE IMPASSIONED PLEA FROM EVERYBODY ELSE THAT LIVES AROUND THAT NEIGHBORHOOD TO TRY TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF THESE PE OF THESE BUILDINGS THAT ARE GOING UP. I MEAN, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, NEVER ENDING CLUSTERS OF THESE LITTLE MINI HOUSES THAT ARE BEING BUILT WITH ABSOLUTELY NO YARDS FOR PARKING. NO YARDS FOR ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE, TO BARBECUE, TO DO ANYTHING. SO, THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE. APPLICANT. COME BACK, PLEASE. THANK YOU. UH, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, THE POSITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED AROUND, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'VE SEEN OR HAVEN'T SEEN. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW EVEN TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE 65 PEOPLE THAT HAVE, THEY HAVEN'T SEEN OUR PLAN. THEY HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO, TO BE IN A MEETING TO DISCUSS THE PLAN. UH, AND SO I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT, WHAT IN THE WORLD'S GOING ON THERE. BUT WE ARE GOING THROUGH THE PROPER PROCEDURES OF MEETING WITH THE, THE COMMITTEE, WHICH WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO DO FOR, THAT REPRESENTS THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. UH, AND THEN THEY, IT'S THEIR OBLIGATION OR THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO TAKE THESE MEETINGS AND THIS INFORMATION TO THEIR BOARD. AND HOPEFULLY WE'D LOVE TO GET A, GET THE BOARD WHO, WHO IS, IS THE AUTHORITY FOR, FOR TALKING, YOU KNOW, LETTING AND THEY HAVE MEETINGS AND LET THE NEIGHBORHOODS COME IN AND, AND TALK. LET ME HAVE A CHANCE TO ADDRESS SOME CONCERNS. 'CAUSE HEARD A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THE FRENCH DRAIN AND WE'RE NOT PUTTING IN A FRENCH DRAIN. AND IN FACT, THE DRAINAGE, YOU KNOW, SAYING THAT WE'RE NOT INTERESTED IN, IN BEING A GOOD DEVELOPER IS NOT TRUE AT ALL. UH, IN FACT, AS I MENTIONED TO YOU EARLIER RIGHT NOW, AND WHEN WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY, IT WAS A BIG PARKING LOT. WE HAVE MINIMIZED, AND WE DON'T HAVE THE EXACT PERCENTAGE, BUT A LOT, WE HAVE TAKEN A LOT OF, OF, OF, OF ASPHALT OFF THAT PROPERTY AND CREATED MORE, UH, PERVIOUS AREA THAN, THAN THERE WAS WHEN WE PURCHASED THE PROPERTY BY A LOT. UH, THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT IS GONNA TAKE EVEN EVEN MORE OF THAT OFF BY VIRTUE OF, IF WE JUST LEAVE IT AS AN ASPHALT PARKING LOT, IT'S GONNA KEEP RUNNING JUST LIKE IT HAS. WE ARE, WE HAVE A CHANCE OF, OF, OF MITIGATING THAT AND, AND RESPONSIBLY TAKING IT TO WHERE IT DOESN'T GO ACROSS SOMEBODY'S PROPERTY. WE'VE EVEN GOT A, A RECEIPT. WE'VE ALREADY GOTTEN APPROVAL TO DO A GREEN ROOF ON OUR BUILDING. WE'RE SPENDING ABOUT $50,000 TO COLLECT THE WATER, CONTAIN IT, AND, AND, AND RELEASE IT VERY SLOWLY INTO THE, INTO THE STREETS. SO TO SAY WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT SENSITIVE TO DRAINAGES FAR BE IT. I CAN BRING YOU THE DOCUMENTS, SHOW YOU THAT THEY'RE APPROVED. SO THESE AREN'T THINGS WE'RE DOING BECAUSE WE'RE IRRESPONSIBLE. THIS IS OUR HOME, THIS IS OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT STORIES ARE BEING TOLD OUT THERE. I'D LIKE TO, TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THAT AND, AND ADDRESS THOSE WITH THE NEIGHBOR, WITH THE NEIGHBORS AROUND US. BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE'VE HEARD ABOUT THIS. CAN I GET YOU TO JUST BRIEFLY OUTLINE THE ZONING AND THE PLATTING AND THE UTILITIES THAT ARE IN THE GROUND? ABSOLUTELY. GET TO THIS, GET TO THE RIGHT DIRECTION HERE. LEMME GO TO THIS IS THE, THE, THE SITE PLAN. UH, THE NORTHERN PART OF THE SITE PLAN DOES NOT SHOW THE HOUSES TO, TO THE SOUTH, WHICH I CAN GO TO. MAYBE, GOLLY, THIS ISN'T, I'M MORE SPECIFICALLY INTERESTED IN THE, THE WAY THAT IT WAS PLATTED AND WHAT IT'S ZONED AS FOR THIS MIXED RIGHT. MIXED. PERFECT. AND TRY TO GET THE ONE, SIR, IF YOU COULD. THERE YOU GO. THERE YOU GO. THAT'S HOW THE PROPERTY WAS PLOTTED. OKAY. AND IT WAS ALSO APPROVED THROUGH THE, AND AND REZONED DURING THE REZONING IS VERY SPECIFIC AS TO THE DENSITY. AND THE COMMENT THAT WE'RE DOING 18 HOUSES IN THE BACK IS NOT CORRECT AT ALL. THAT'S GONNA BE ABOUT 10 OR 11, WHICH IS WHAT WE AGREED TO DO AT THE TIME OF THE ZONING AND THE APPROVAL, UH, TO GET THE ZONING THAT WE HAVE. UH, SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WHOLE PROJECT, WHICH [05:30:01] WAS DONE IN, IN CONCERT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, BRINGING THE PRESIDENTS TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT, THAT VOTED AND TOOK THIS TO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND VOTED ON IT AND, AND APPROVED THIS PLAN. SO WE'RE NOT DEVIATING FROM THE PLAN AT ALL. THESE ARE PLANTED LOTS. ALL THE UTILITIES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN BROUGHT IN. UH, AND YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE'VE ALREADY RE REDUCED A LOT OF THE, THE ASPHALT PARKING LOT WHERE THE HOUSE WAS BUILT. THEY HAVE YARDS IN THE BACK AND THEY HAVE YARDS IN THE FRONT NOW. AND IN FACT, IT WAS A PARKING LOT BEFORE. SO THE MITIGATION, WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN DOING NOTHING BUT MAKING THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD BETTER FROM A DRAINAGE PERSPECTIVE. FROM THE MOMENT WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY. THE, THE SITE PLAN WAS, UH, ATTACHED TO THE ORDINANCE. IT WAS AS AN EXHIBIT. YEP. WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? OR WHEN WAS THAT? UH, PROBABLY 2016. OKAY. OKAY. C COMMISSIONER, IF, IF I COULD ASKS STAFF TO, TO PUT PAGE 13 OF THE P D F. UH, AND YEAH, FOR COMMISSIONER, COMMISSIONER, THE, UH, THE IMAGE IMAGE ON THE SCREEN, I HAD THE SAME QUESTIONS BECAUSE THE IMAGE ON THE SCREEN SHOWS UTILITIES ALREADY IN PLACE. THEY ARE, WE WERE REQUIRED TO DO THAT WHEN WE GOT OUR PLAT APPROVED. THE PLAT REQUIRES US TO PUT IN ALL THE UTILITIES. SO WE ACTUALLY PUT IN POWER AND, AND ALONG THE DRIVEWAY. AND, UH, SO ALL THAT'S BEEN, THAT WAS A SOLID PARKING LOT. SO WE'VE ALREADY TAKEN UP ABOUT FIVE FEET NEXT TO OUR ASPHALT ROAD AND, AND PUT IN, UH, UH, PUT IN ALL THE UTILITIES. AND WE'VE ALSO REMOVED ABOUT THREE FEET IN THE BACK OF OUR PROPERTY TO PUT IN A WATER LINE BACK THERE. SO WE'VE ALREADY STARTED REMOVING, UH, THE, UH, THE ASPHALT. THE REST OF WHAT YOU SEE THERE IS ALL, IS ALL ASPHALT. COMMISSIONER FISH. WOULD YOU LIKE TO CONTINUE? 'CAUSE WE WERE AT D R C, SO WE, YOU KNOW, WE DISCUSSED THIS AT D R C I GUESS THAT'S WHY YOU WERE ASKING THIS. WELL, I, I MEAN, I THINK THE, THE FIRST PART OF THIS DISCUSSION HAS TO DO WITH, UM, THE, THE, THE UTILIZATION OF THIS LAND THAT IS BEHIND THIS HOUSE. YOU KNOW, THE HOUSE, UH, THAT WAS BUILT IN THE PARKING LOT IN THE FRONT WAS FILLING IN A MISSING TOOTH. THIS WAS ALL PART OF A PARKING LOT, RIGHT? SO, SO THE WAY THAT THESE PARCELS ARE ADDRESSED HAS A LOT TO DO WITH COMMENTS ABOUT, UM, FRONT PORCH ELEMENTS AND PARKING. UM, THERE WAS A COMMENT MADE ABOUT HOW CAN A RESIDENCE NOT FRONT THE STREET? AND NOW IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. IT WAS PLOTTED THAT WAY. HOW ARE THESE ADDRESSED? UH, WHAT ARE THE ADDRESSES? THEY WILL HAVE A, AN ADDRESS OFF OF PINE STREET. THEY, THEY'RE ALREADY ADDRESSED. WE HAVE A, A ADDRESS. THEY'RE LIKE, THEY'RE, THEY HAVE LIKE A 9 15, 9 17. WELL, THE COMMENTS THAT RELATE TO FRONT YARD PARKING AND PORCH ELEMENTS TO ME ARE PROBLEMATIC IN THIS INSTANCE BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THIS WAS PLATTED. AND I THINK, UH, IN THE YEAR THAT, UM, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE I D Z ZONING, THE SITE PLAN WASN'T A, MAY, MAY HAVE BEEN REQUIRED, BUT NOW IT'S REQUIRED, UH, TO A GREATER DETAIL. RIGHT. SO MY UNDERSTANDING WHEN I INITIALLY LOOKED AT THIS PROJECT AS THIS WAS PLATTED THIS WAY AND THAT WAS ATTACHED, THIS SITE PLAN WAS ATTACHED AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE. AND THAT'S TRUE, CORRECT? I BELIEVE SO, YEAH. SO IT WAS ALSO PRESENTED IN THE D R C. I WANNA TALK ABOUT THE D R C MEETING FOR JUST A SECOND, THEN I'LL HAND IT OFF. UM, THAT THIS WAS A LIVE, A LIVE WORK, UM, SITUATION WHERE, WHERE YOU WANTED PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN OFFICE ON THE FIRST FLOOR. IT WAS, I BELIEVE, THE ENTIRETY OF THE FIRST FLOOR. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THE RESIDENCE IS ABOVE, AND IT'S LIMITED TO TWO STORIES. UM, AND THERE WAS SOME, THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT IS THE IDENTITY OF THIS THING AND WHAT IS THE PRECEDENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE IS PRECEDENT FOR MID-BLOCK, UH, MORE COMMERCIALLY ORIENTED STRUCTURES THAT COULD BE APPROPRIATE TO ACHIEVE. UM, WHAT, WHAT YOUR, WHAT YOUR KIND OF IN GOAL WAS HERE AND THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT ROOF FORMS AND WHAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE ROOF FORM. I THINK MY CONCERN WAS MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT, ARE THESE FOUR SMALL HOUSES TILTED UP, IN WHICH CASE THE RESIDENTIAL GUIDELINES KIND OF MORE DIRECTLY AND SPECIFICALLY APPLY, OR IS THIS, UM, A DIFFERENT KIND OF SETUP? AND UH, I THINK YOU HAD DESCRIBED US, YOU HAVE ZERO LOT LIMITS ON THE ZONING, IS THAT RIGHT? WE DO AS I D Z, UH, THE SIDE LOTS AND THE FRONT LOT, WHICH WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY ON A PUBLIC STREET. UH, BUT, BUT, UH, THERE IS NO SITE, THERE IS A REAR PROPERTY SITE BACK, UH, OF A MINIMUM OF FIVE FEET. SO SINCE, SINCE OUR LAST MEETING WE, THERE WAS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HEIGHT, THE WAY THAT THE MASS RELATED TO THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH, PARTICULARLY THOSE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. THERE ARE THREE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES IN HERE. UM, IF WE ARE TO VIEW, LOOK AT THIS AS A TYPICAL ACCESSORY STRUCTURE CONFIGURATION, WE, WE HAVE ISSUES WITH THE WAY THIS WORKS. UM, IF WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS A LIVE WORK COMPONENT THAT HAS MORE OF A, I WOULD SAY A COMMERCIAL CONNECTION TO [05:35:01] THE HISTORICAL PRECEDENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK THERE'S POTENTIAL THERE. BUT AS FOUR LITTLE HOUSES STOOD UP, I THINK I, I THINK THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT THAT. AND THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT THE CONSISTENCY OF THE LANGUAGE AND WHAT WAS BEING REFERENCED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD HISTORICALLY. UM, WILL YOU FILL IN THE GAPS FOR ME? YEAH. SO, UM, AND I THINK THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT AND I THINK THAT'S, I DON'T THINK IT'S CLEAR ENOUGH FOR US TODAY EITHER OR IF YOU ARE, THEN I THINK YOUR MESSAGE THAT YOU'RE GIVING US IS THAT IT'S RESIDENTIAL. UM, THEN THE OTHER PART THAT WE DISCUSSED, IF IT WAS RESIDENTIAL AND IF IT WAS GONNA STAY, THIS SITE PLAN IS THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEIGHBORS. SO THERE'S SOME KIND OF A GRADE AND UM, ACTUALLY WE ALL HAVE IN THE FOLD OF THE PRESENTATION OF THE NEIGHBOR AND I WAS, UH, I KEPT LOOKING AT THE PICTURES THAT THE NEIGHBORS SUBMITTED AND I CAN ACTUALLY, HE MEASURED, WE ASKED YOU TO COME, IF YOU COULD PROVIDE US THOSE PICTURES. THERE'S APPARENTLY ALMOST LIKE THREE FEET HEIGHT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHERE YOU'RE AT RIGHT NOW AND THE NEIGHBOR'S LOT. SO IF YOU'RE ADDING THREE FEET OF JUST GRADE AND THEN 26 FEET OF BUILDING, OH YEAH. WE'RE NOT DOING THAT NEXT TO HIS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. THEN THAT CREATES A LITTLE BIT OF A, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT IS ALSO PART OF, I MEAN, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER WHEN WE ARE PROVING THIS CONCEPTUALLY, MAY I ADDRESS THAT AS FAR AS THE, THE, THE PROPERTY THAT HE HAS OBVIOUSLY IS A VERY DEEP PROPERTY. AND YES, HE HAS PROPERTY THAT, THAT VARIES IN TERMS OF AT THE FRONT WHERE PINE STREET IS AND WHERE WE DID OUR DEVELOPMENT THERE FROM ONE SIDE OF OUR PROPERTY TO HIS PROPERTY IS MAYBE A FOOT DROP. OKAY. AS YOU GO FURTHER BACK, WHAT THE CHURCH DID, APPARENTLY WHEN THEY DID THIS, WHEN THEY DID THEIR PROPERTY, WHEN THEY BUILT THIS PROPERTY, THEY CAME IN, PROBABLY TOOK THE NATURAL GROUND, BROUGHT IN ALL THE BASE FOR THE PARKING LOT, ADDED, UH, ASPHALT. AND THEN OVER THE LAST 30 OR 40 YEARS, THEY KEPT ADDING ASPHALT TO IT. SO THEY PROBABLY RAISED THE ELEVATION OF NATURAL GROUND BY, YOU KNOW, A FOOT TO, TO 16 INCHES AND, AND SO ON HIS SIDE. AND THEY HAD A, HAD A, UH, UH, A CURB THAT WAS SITTING THERE. SO, SO THEY LITERALLY, LITERALLY JUST CREATED A DAM ON THEIR PROPERTY THAT THEY OWNED THAT PULL UP THE PICTURES. YEAH, PLEASE. YEAH. THAT WOULD HELP US UNDERSTAND THAT. YEAH. LEMME SHOW THAT PICTURES. LET ME, LEMME SEE IF I CAN GET THIS TOGGLE WORKING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. SO THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. SO IT'S IN THE PRESENTATION OF THE NEIGHBOR. SO IT'S IN THE FOLDER LETTERS. WE NEED TO GO OUT THERE AND MEASURE IT ALL. AND THERE, THERE ARE PLACES WHERE HIS FOOTPRINT, HIS FINISHED FLOOR IS, IS THREE FEET ABOVE HIS NATURAL GROUND. THAT'S THE WAY HE, THE HOUSE WAS BUILT. SO THEY HAVE A SLAB THAT W GOES DOWN TO NATURAL GROUND AND THEN THERE'S THREE FEET OF, OF SLAB BEFORE YOU GET TO THE, TO THE ELEVATION OF HIS HOUSE. SO THE FACT THAT HIS NATURAL GROUND IS LOW DOESN'T MITIGATE THE FACT THAT HIS HOUSE IS ELEVATED HIGH. 'CAUSE APPARENTLY WHEN THESE WERE BUILT BACK IN, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER THEY WERE BUILT A LONG TIME AGO, THEY HAD TO BUILD IT UP 'CAUSE HIS LOT WAS LOW. AND MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN ALSO GO AS A SITE VISIT. I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE TODAY, I, I MEAN WE HAVE, WE STILL HAVE A LONG AGENDA. WE'VE HAD A LONG DAY. YEAH. I STILL DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH FOR A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. UM, I, AND IT'S NOT THAT YOU'RE NOT PROVIDING US INFORMATION. I THINK THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION. YES. COMMISSIONER OFFICIALS A GREAT POINT. YOU'RE PUTTING RESIDENTIAL, I MEAN, TO ME THEY'RE MORE RESIDENTIAL. YOU HAVEN'T REALLY STATED THE CASE THAT IT'S GONNA BE A COMMERCIAL BUILDING. IF IT WAS A COMMERCIAL. I WOULD, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT IS JOINING MAYBE TWO OF THE BUILDINGS AND DOING SOMETHING LIKE WHERE YOUR OFFICE IS AND YOU'RE USING YOUR OFFICE AS THAT, AS THIS INSPIRATION TO A COMMERCIAL BUILDING THAT'S GONNA BE NEXT TO YOUR OFFICE, BUT NOT FOR FOUR HOMES THAT ARE SEPARATE. I'M STILL KNOW THAT OF THESE STIPULATIONS, MAKE SURE WILL ALWAYS STAY THERE. YES. BECAUSE WHEN WE DO RESIDENTIAL, WE DON'T LIKE FRONT YARD PARKING. YOUR ENTRANCE ELEMENTS ARE MISSING. RIGHT. YOUR ROOF FORMS ARE NOT TRADITIONAL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO THOSE STIPULATIONS WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. I DON'T THINK WE CAN GET AWAY WITH THEM. NOW. HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE GET IN THE MIDDLE GROUND? THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. SO I'M REPRESENTING THIS TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T, SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS TODAY BECAUSE WE ASKED YOU TO REVIEW THAT. AND I DON'T THINK YOU'VE CHANGED THAT MUCH. SO EITHER WE DO A SITE VISIT OR ANOTHER D R C WITH, UH, MAYBE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET FAR HERE TODAY AND WE'RE NOT DESIGNING HERE TODAY. WELL, MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT TOO, TO GENTLEMEN. YEAH. UH, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION BECAUSE IT'S, IT IS A VERY, VERY, UH, IT'S PROBABLY AT THE WRONG HOUR. YEAH, NO KIDDING. IF YOU WERE THE FIRST ONE, IT'D BE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. YEAH. UH, BUT AS FAR AS WHEN SOMEONE TALKS ABOUT CONCEPTUAL, THAT IS A CONCEPTUAL PRESENTATION AND YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK, AND I ALSO APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS BY YOUR NEIGHBOR THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR ISSUES. RIGHT. UM, THE, UM, I AM, I'M WONDERING, MR. CHAIR, IT, IT SEEMS APPROPRIATE, THE PRESENTATION WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF CONCEPTUAL, ALTHOUGH IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S ANOTHER, LIKE THIS IS CONCEPTUAL. A THERE NEEDS TO BE CONCEPTUAL B UH, BECAUSE A MUCH OF THE CONCEPTUAL THAT WE GET IS FAR BEYOND CONCEPTUAL. [05:40:02] SO, SO IT SEEMS LIKE THE, THE PROBLEM WITH THE PRESENTATION HERE IS THAT IT'S, UM, MORE TRUE TO THE TERM CONCEPTUAL. UM, BUT, BUT, UH, BUT WITH RE RESPECT TO THE LOT LINES THAT WAS IN, IN THE, UM, IN THE STAFF'S, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, WHEN YOU SEE THE IMAGE, IT APPEARS THAT THE LAND'S ALREADY BEEN PLOTTED. SO IT'S ODD THAT THERE'S NOT A SURVEY ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR PRESENTATION. I THINK THIS, WHAT'S MISSING IS A SURVEY DRAWING THE PLATT. YEAH. THE ACTUAL SURVEY. ACTUAL THE ACTUAL NEW PLATT. YEAH. UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE DESIGN. UM, JUST AS A COMMENT, UH, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, I THINK IT ALSO PRESENTS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO BE SOMETHING NEW AND FRESH AND SOMETHING VERY INTERESTING WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE OVERALL ARCHITECTURE TO SAY THAT THIS ABSOLUTELY HAS TO MATCH OR FOLLOW. YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT IT'S IN A HISTORIC CONTEXT, BUT IT'S ALSO AN ODD SITE. IT ALSO, IT SEEMS TO BE KIND OF REVOLUTIONARY IN IT'S WAY. I MEAN, MAYBE THAT'S PREMATURE, BUT WE'LL FIND OUT. RIGHT. BUT WITH RESPECT TO THE BUILDINGS IN THE AREA, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA, IT'S A VERY INTERESTING AREA AND A VERY INTERESTING MIX OF NEW ODD THINGS IN A HISTORIC CONTEXT. SO I WOULD, UH, AGREE MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER, UH, BUT, UH, I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE'S NOT A PRE, UH, CONCEPTUAL THAT ACTUALLY QUALIFIES AS IT AS SUCH. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY, UH, HAVE A FEW, A FEW COMMENTS. 'CAUSE I'VE BEEN KIND OF QUIET ALL NIGHT LONG AND . UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS THIS IS, IS ACTUALLY A VERY INNOVATIVE LAND USE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. AND, AND THIS COULD BE SOMETHING THAT I THINK WITH THE RIGHT APPROACH AND WORKING REALLY CLOSELY WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND LOOKING AT THIS NEW INNOVATIVE LAND USE, BUT WITH FORMS AND MATERIALS THAT ARE BEING DRIVEN FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM THE, THE CONTEXT THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH SOMETHING REALLY, REALLY NEAT HERE. WHAT, UH, MR. TURNER AND HIS, HIS COMPANY'S TRYING TO ATTEMPT TO DO HERE. UM, BUT I THINK THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS, THE, THE NEWNESS AS YOU WERE SAYING, IS SUCH THAT I HATE TO RUSH THIS AND HAVE THE GAVEL GO DOWN AND, AND NOT HAVE A PROPER, UH, UH, UH, CONSIDERATION TO KIND OF THE, THE INNOVATION THAT'S BEING PROPOSED HERE, UH, WHILE STILL TAKING INTO, UH, ACCOUNT, YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBOR'S CONCERNS ABOUT THE, THE MASSING, THE, THE DENSITY OF THAT LAND USE AND THAT SORT OF THING. SO, UM, BECAUSE OF THE, THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS, I WOULD LIKE TO REFER THIS BACK TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING THAT I, I WOULD LOVE TO ATTEND. I WASN'T ABLE TO ATTEND THIS LAST ONE. UM, AND THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE OUT ON SITE AS WELL TO REALLY SEE THE ADJACENCIES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, ESPECIALLY ON THESE LONG LOTS. AND TO, TO VIEW THE SITE LINES FROM, FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, I THINK IS GONNA BE REALLY CRITICAL AS WELL. WE'VE SEEN A LITTLE BIT OF THAT FROM THE, UH, UH, THE APPLICANT'S PRESENTATION HERE, BUT I THINK IT'D BE REALLY HELPFUL TO LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE THIS DOES HAVE A VERY STEEP, DRAMATIC GRADE TO THE SITE. AND, UM, I THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL FOR, FOR ALL OF US TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. IS THAT A MOTION? THAT IS A MOTION, SIR. SECOND MOTION A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO D R C. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? UM, I WOULD, I WOULD, UH, APPLICANT INVITE, UH, MEMBERS FROM THE BLOCK TO ATTEND IN THE SITE VISIT IN SOME CAPACITY SO THAT EVERYBODY IS IN INFORMED, UH, MISCOMMUNICATION WITH THAT. AND, AND, AND I'D ALSO LIKE TO ADD THAT, I THINK, SORRY, SORRY. I THINK THAT THERE WAS, UH, SOME REALLY GOOD COMMENTS. I MEAN, I THINK YOU PICKED UP ON 1, 2, 4, AND EIGHT BEING THE COMMENTS THAT ARE, UH, NEEDING TO BE CONSIDERED. AND I THINK THAT THE WAY THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS PLATTED LENDS A LOT OF PROBLEMS TO THOSE ISSUES. SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU NEED TO SPEND YOUR TIME KIND OF, UH, MASSAGING THOSE CONCEPTS. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S REALLY GONNA BE DIFFICULT ABOUT THIS. BUT I THINK THERE IS SOME OPPORTUNITY THERE. AND I WOULD AGREE THAT, UM, MEETING WITH THE COMMUNITY MORE AND GETTING THEIR INPUT ABOUT THIS BECAUSE, WELL, I, I THINK WE REALLY EXPRESSED SOME OF OUR CONCERNS WHEN, WHEN WE HAD THE D R C MEETING AND WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF THESE THINGS. SO, AND THE COMMUNITY IS, YOU KNOW, NOT, I WOULDN'T SAY UP IN ARMS, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY DEFINITELY HAVE SOME CONCERNS AND I DO AS WELL. SO I THINK THAT DEFINITELY SHOULD INCLUDE THEM MORE IN THIS PROCESS. VERY GOOD. WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. AGENDA ITEM [B-27 19-9287 Address/Description: 434 SHERMAN ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-708 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: robert amezquita/amezquita design studio Request: Construction of a 2-story residential structure City Council Dist.: 2] B 27 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 20 19 7 0 8 434 SHERMAN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE ON ALLOT AT 4 34 SHERMAN STREET, LOCATED AT THE CORNER OF SHERMAN IN NORTH OLIVE WITHIN THE DIGNITY [05:45:01] HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A THROUGH V STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING INCONSISTENCIES WITH THE GUIDELINES PRIOR TO RECEIVING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND THERE ARE 11 ITEMS THAT STAFF HAS NOTED. GOOD EVENING. I'M ROBERT AMESQUITA SPEAKING FOR THE OWNERS ON THE OWNER'S BEHALF. UM, WE'VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME, SO, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU WANT ME TO START. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT ME TO START FROM ITEM ONE THROUGH 11. ED? UH, YES, I CAN. UH, SURE THING. I'LL, I'LL ACTUALLY START OFF BY READING THOSE. OKAY. UH, SO ITEM ONE THAT A SET SETBACK THAT IS GREATER THAN THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE BLOCK BE USED IS NOTED IN FINDING D BEAR WITH ME AND I'LL PULL THE SITE PLAN UP. UM, ITEM ONE, THE SETBACK. UH, AS WE HAVE, UH, INDICATED PREVIOUSLY, WE'VE SUBMITTED, UH, TWO GOOGLE IMAGES AND TWO SANBORN MAPS. THERE YOU GO. THAT SHOW THAT THE HOUSE ON THAT, UH, SITE, UH, THERE, IT'S UP THERE IN CORNER, UH, WAS AT, UH, FIVE TO SEVEN FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. UH, OUR PROPOSED, UH, RESIDENCE IS AT 13 FEET, UH, I'M SORRY, YEAH, 13 FEET, UH, WHICH IS DOUBLE THE DISTANCE, ALMOST DOUBLE THE DISTANCE OF THE PREVIOUS RESIDENCE ON THAT SITE. UH, ADDITIONALLY, UM, ALL THOSE HOUSES ON, UH, OLIVE STREET, UH, ARE, ARE ON SITES THAT ARE 150 FEET DEEP. OUR SITE IS, UH, HALF OF THAT AT 75 FEET. UH, AND THEN WE SUBMITTED ANOTHER, I BELIEVE EXHIBIT A, UH, THAT SHOWS THAT, UH, IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, THERE ARE MANY HOUSES, MANY EXAMPLES WHERE THE HOUSES ON THE CORNERS OF THESE BLOCKS WERE CLOSER TO THE PROPERTY LINES THAN THE INFILL HOUSES. SO WE'RE JUST FOLLOWING HISTORIC PRECEDENCE ON THAT. ITEM TWO, THAT A FRONT FACING, AND THAT IS TOWARD NORTH OLIVE DOOR, WITHIN THE FRONT PORCH, BE INSTALLED TO MATCH THE HISTORIC PORCH PROFILES. UM, NOTED IN FINDING F REGARDING THE, UH, FRONT FACING DOOR, UH, THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS, UH, A LOT OF EXAMPLES. UH, WE JUST PROVIDED 16, UH, ADDRESSES AND IMAGES SHOWING WHERE, UH, THE, THE DOOR, THE FRONT DOOR OR THE ENTRY DOOR IS SIDE FACING FROM THE, FROM THE PORCH. WE PROVIDED, UH, 16 PHOTOGRAPH PHOTOGRAPHIC EXAMPLES, UH, ALONG WITH ADDRESSES OF THAT. ITEM THREE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLED FOUNDATION HEIGHTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES AS NOTED IN FINDING H WE CONCUR WITH THAT. UH, WE'RE PROPOSING OUR, UH, FOUNDATION HEIGHT TO BE ONE FOOT, UH, LOWER THAN THE HOUSE ADJACENT ON, UH, NORTH PINE. I CAN'T REMEMBER THE, I GUESS THE 1126 IS THE ADDRESS. WELL, WE'RE PROPOSING TO BE ONLY ONE FOOT DIFFERENCE IN HEIGHT ELEVATION FOR, FOR FOUNDATION STAFF WOULD JUST NOTE THAT, UM, THE FOUNDATION HEIGHT AND MEASUREMENT SHOULD BE ANNOTATED ON THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS SO THAT STAFF CAN, UH, CONFIRM THAT. OKAY, NUMBER FOUR, THE APPLICANT CONTINUED TO WORK TO REDUCE THE PERCEIVED MASSING OF THE PROPOSED NEW CONSTRUCTION. AN INCREASE IN FRONT SETBACKS MAY RESULT IN A REDUCTION OF PERCEIVED MASSING. WELL, I THINK I'VE ADDRESSED THE, UH, FRONT SETBACK ISSUE. UH, PART OF OUR PROBLEM IS, UH, WE'RE ONLY DEALING WITH HALF OF THE DEPTH THAT THE REST OF THE, UH, LOTS ON, ON PINE HAVE TO WORK WITH. UM, UH, WE'RE ALSO 16 FEET. UH, OUR FINISH FINISHED GRADE IS 16 FEET BELOW THE BURLESON NORTH OLIVE CORNER. SO, UH, WE'RE ON THE LOW PART OF THE, UH, PROPERTY. UM, NUMBER FIVE THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL A SIMPLIFIED ROOF FORM WITH CONSISTENT RIDGE HEIGHTS WOULD BE MORE COMPLIMENTARY OF THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT, AS NOTED IN FINDING I. AND SO I'VE WORKED WITH THE D R C ON THE, THE ROOF DESIGN AND, UM, IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE. IT, IT'S BASICALLY TWO, TWO RIDGES, AND THEN [05:50:01] WHEN YOU HAVE ONE RIDGE A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THE OTHER ONE, THE FIRST, THE RIDGE AT THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING COMES UP TO MEET THAT. AND WE'VE GOT A DORMER DORMER ON THE FRONT. NUMBER SIX. IT'S CONSISTENT THERE. IT, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY SIMILAR TO A LOT OF, UH, HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE, UH, HIP ROOFS AND, AND, UH, HIP ROOFS, UH, WITH DORMERS STAFF'S. PRIMARY, UH, CONCERN IN REGARDS TO THAT IS THE FRONT FACING GABLE, UM, HISTORICALLY WOULD FEATURE A RIDGE HEIGHT THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE CROSS GABLE. YOU ALSO WOULDN'T HAVE THAT HIP INTERSECTION, UM, THAT WOULD PRESENT ITSELF TALLER THAN THE PRIMARY RIDGE LINE, UH, FOR THE ROOF. UM, CAN MOVE ON TO NUMBER SIX, THAT THE PROPOSED METAL PORCH RAILINGS BE ELIMINATED AND THAT WOOD PORCH RAILINGS BE INSTALLED IS NOTED IN FINDING K WE CONCUR. NUMBER SEVEN IS IN REGARDS TO, UH, WINDOWS. UM, STAT, UH, I WON'T READ ALL OF THE SPECIFICATIONS. I BELIEVE THE PRIMARY DIFFERENCE IN WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED AND WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED A WOOD PRODUCT. HOWEVER, THE PROFILES, UM, AND FENESTRATION PATTERNS THAT ARE PROPOSED HERE ARE INCONSISTENT WITH STAFF SPECIFICATIONS AND WHAT'S FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT. NUMBER EIGHT, THAT ELEVATIONS FOR THE EAST AND WEST FACADES OF THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BE SUBMITTED, THAT THE MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE MATCH THOSE AS NOTED IN FINDINGS K AND L. UH, THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED ADDITIONAL CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS THAT CAN BE REFERRED TO, UM, DURING DISCUSSION NUMBER NINE, PROPOSED FRONT WALKWAY FEATURE PROFILE AND MATERIALS THAT MATCH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY WITHIN THE DISTRICT. IT'S NOTED IN FINDING SS CURRENTLY PROPOSED AS PAVERS THAT ARE STAGGERED, 10, THAT ALL MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED FROM VIEW, FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS IT NOTED THIS SPECIFICALLY ON THE PLAN N 11, THAT LANDSCAPING ELEMENTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND HISTORICALLY ON THE BLOCK AND THE GUIDELINES BEING INSTALLED IS NOTED IN FINDING YOU AND THAT A LANDSCAPING PLAN BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL. UM, I SUBMITTED A SITE PLAN THAT, UH, SHOWS OUR LANDSCAPING ELEMENTS, UH, SHEET A 1.1, UH, THAT WAS SUBMITTED LAST TIME ALSO. SO, UH, WE DID SUBMIT A, A SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS OUR LANDSCAPING, OUR PROPOSED LANDSCAPING, A 1.1, I BELIEVE THERE'S A 1.1 IN THE APPLICATION DOCUMENTS GO REALLY HARD TO READ. UM, WHAT IS THE SIDEWALK? IS IT STILL INDIVIDUAL? YEAH, WE'RE SHOWING INDIVIDUAL, UH, UH, PAVERS, I GUESS, UH, PADS. UH, I SUBMITTED, UH, SOME ADDRESSES AND, AND, UH, PHOTOGRAPHS WHERE THAT PARTICULAR DESIGN ALREADY EXISTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, I CAN GIVE YOU, I THINK, ED, THERE'S SOME PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT I CAN RATTLE OFF THE ADDRESSES WHILE HE PULLS UP THE IMAGES. WELL, BEFORE WE GET INTO SPECIFICS ABOUT THIS, UH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, OR ED HAS REVIEWED A LOT OF THIS AND YOU RESPONDED TO, UH, WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. LET'S GO AHEAD AND, UH, HEAR THEM AND THEN WE WILL ASK YOU BACK UP. OKAY. THANK YOU. JUST ONE ELAINE VETER. GOOD EVENING AGAIN. ELAINE VETER 3 9 1 1 FOREST CREEK STREET HERE REPRESENTING THE SAN ANTONIO CONSERVATION SOCIETY HERE, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. UH, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONCURS WITH THE O H P STAFF RECOMMENDATION REGARDING THE PROPOSED PROJECT [05:55:01] AT 4 34 SHERMAN IN THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. THE PROPOSED PROJECT IS OUT OF SCALE WITH THE NEIGHBORING STRUCTURES AND THE ATION PATTERNS ARE INCONSISTENT WITH THOSE FOUND THROUGHOUT THE DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT. WE URGE THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION TO ENCOURAGE THE OWNERS TO DEVELOP A PROJECT MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE HISTORIC CONTEXT OF DIGNITY HILL. WE RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO, PATTY ZINES PRESIDENT, AND THANK Y'ALL VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL WE HAVE, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, LET'S SEE IF I CAN GO THROUGH THESE STIPULATIONS AND, AND GET US OUT HERE SOMETIME BEFORE NEXT WEEK. UM, SO STIPULATION, UH, ONE, WHICH WAS THE, THE SETBACK AND TWO, THE SIDE FACING, UH, FRONT DOOR AND FIVE THE ROOF FORMS. I AM CONVINCED THAT THE APPLICANT'S ARCHITECT HAS, UH, SUFFICIENTLY MADE THE CASE THAT, UH, THEY'VE EITHER ADDRESSED THESE OR THERE ARE, UH, SUFFICIENT, UM, PRECEDENTS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO JUSTIFY, UH, DOING WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING. SO I WOULD, I WOULD FIRST WOULD LIKE TO ELIMINATE THOSE FROM THE LONG LIST. ONE, TWO, AND FIVE IF THREE, THE FOUNDATION MARKS, I'M NOT, NOT THERE YET. OH, OKAY. SO THEY'RE, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT I THINK, UH, THEY HAVE PROPERLY ADDRESSED. NOW, THERE WERE TWO STIPULATIONS THAT THEY SAID THEY, UH, WOULD CONCUR WITH ALREADY, WHICH WAS THE FOUNDATION, WHICH IS NUMBER THREE AND NUMBER SIX, WHICH IS THE WOOD RAILING. UH, THEN I BELIEVE THE PERCEIVED MASSING THEY HAVE ADDRESSED AS WELL, BUT I THINK THERE CAN STILL BE SOME WORK DONE WITH THAT IN CONJUNCTION WITH STIPULATION SEVEN, WHICH HAS TO DO WITH THE WINDOWS AND, UH, THE ELEVATIONS FOR THE ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, WALKWAYS, MECHANICAL SCREENING AND LANDSCAPING ALL SEEM TO BE REASONABLE STIPULATIONS FROM STAFF. SO I WOULD MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STIPULATIONS 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, AND 11. THAT MEAN WE GO, UH, BACK TO D R C. THIS IS A FINAL APPROVAL. I'M JUST, I'M, I MEAN I, I I SUPPORT, I THINK WE'VE DONE A LOT OF D R C I MEAN, WE'VE WORKED A LOT WITH THE APPLICANT. IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME WE SEE THE PROJECT AND I DO AGREE, UM, WITH THE PENDING STIPULATIONS, I'M JUST NOT SURE. AND THOSE, THOSE PENDING STIPULATIONS WOULD HAVE TO BE CONFIRMED BY STAFF THAT THEY'RE, WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. I MEAN, IF STAFF COMFORTABLE, I MEAN THE FENESTRATIONS I THINK IS A BIG ISSUE THAT I DON'T KNOW IF STAFF WOULD BE COMFORTABLE. IS THAT SOMETHING? YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S PRETTY CLEAR. I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, WE SEE A LARGE PICTURE WINDOW THAT WOULD HAVE TO BECOME, YOU KNOW, A GANGED WINDOW OF TWO SASHES THAT WOULD BE OF TRADITIONAL SIZE. THAT'S THE STIPULATION. AND SO ANYTHING THAT DEPARTS FROM THAT WOULD RETURN TO THE COMMISSION. NOW THAT THAT LARGE WINDOW IS BASED ON A WINDOW AT FIVE 18 NORTH PINE, THAT'S NOT THE MOTION THAT WAS MADE. I'M, I'M SAYING THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE DISCUSSED THESE FENESTRATIONS WITH THE APPLICANT AT MANY TIMES AND I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'RE IN AGREEMENT, BUT, UM, BUT YOU'RE GIVING HIM DIRECTION THROUGH THE ACTION TODAY. YES. OKAY. SECOND, WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M, I'M A LITTLE BIT UNCLEAR, JEFF. UM, THE MOTION FOR I CAN TALK. OKAY. AGENDA ITEM B 28 20 16 NORTH MAIN 26 20 NORTH MAIN HAS BEEN POSTPONED. IT WILL NOT BE HEARD TODAY. WE'LL MOVE TO ITEM B 29. ITEM [B-29 19-9283 Address/Description: 320 SADIE ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-710 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Shawna Walker /ROC ACQUISITIONS LLC Request: Roof replacement with ridge cap City Council Dist.: 1] B 29 H G R C, CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH SEVEN 10. ADDRESS, THREE 20 SADIE STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL A RIDGE CAP ON A NEW STANDING SEA METAL ROOF. THE WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED PRIOR TO PULLING A PERMIT OR ISSUING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS. A AND B STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT CORRECT THE RIDGE CAP INSTALLATION TO MEET THE O H P STANDING SEA METAL ROOF ROOFING POLICY, WHICH IS LISTED IN THE RECOMMENDATION THE APPLICANT HERE. PLEASE, A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND FOR THIS CASE. [06:00:01] UM, AND FOLLOWING UP AND DOING SITE VISITS, WE NOTICE ADDITIONAL WORK WITHOUT APPROVAL. UM, SO THE APPLICANT IS NOT ELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE VERIFICATION TONIGHT ANYWAYS. UM, THEY DID HAVE THE OPTION OF PRESENTING THE CASE FOR THE ROOF CAP TONIGHT AND IT APPEARS THEY CHOSE NOT TO COME OR STAY FOR THE MEETING. WE COULD TAKE ACTION. UM, YOU COULD OR, UM, THEY COULD COME BACK WITH EVERYTHING THAT NEEDS APPROVAL IN JANUARY. CHAIR. UH, I'M, I'M LOOKING AT THE IMAGE THAT THE RICH CAP IS A VERY LOW PROFILE AND I WOULD, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD BE HERE, BUT THEY'RE NOT HERE. BUT I, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE, UH, UM, IN FAVOR OF THE APP, UH, IN FAVOR OF THE OWNER. I, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY THAT. UH, WELL, I, I SHARE MY COMMISSIONER'S OPINION. UM, I, I'D RATHER THEM BE HERE TO DISCUSS HOW THIS HAS HAPPENED AND IF THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES TO DEAL WITH THOSE AT THE TIME. SO I WOULD SUPPORT CONTINUING IT. ALTHOUGH I, I AGREE WITH YOU ON, ON THE SITUATION WITH THE RIDGE CAP. I, I WOULD MOVE TO CONTINUE AND I WILL SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. AGENDA ITEM NUMBER [B-30 19-9359 Address/Description: 317 PEREIDA ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-730 Historic District Name: King William Applicant: Nicholas Melde/Architexas Request: Porch enclosure, window replacement, fenestration modifications City Council Dist.: 1] B 30 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH SEVEN THREE ADDRESS, THREE 17 PRUS STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO REMOVE ELEMENTS OF EXISTING SIDE PORCH AND CLOSE A SIDE PORCH RELOCATE TWO EXISTING WOOD WINDOWS. INSTALL FIVE NEW WINDOWS AND ONE NEW DOOR. ITEM ONE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO REMOVE EXISTING ELEMENTS OF THE SIDE PORCH BASED ON FINDING B. ITEM TWO. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO ENCLOSE THE SIDE PORCH BASED ON FINDING C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMIT MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS TO STAFF FOR REVIEW PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. ITEM THREE, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF WOOD WINDOW RELOCATION BASED ON FINDING D. ITEM FOUR. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS BASED ON FINDING E STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT FULLY INSTALL FULLY WOOD WINDOWS AND THAT THE APPLICANT DOES NOT MODIFY THE WINDOW OPENING ON THE REAR ELEVATION TO INSTALL A NEW DOOR. IF FENESTRATION MODIFICATIONS ARE APPROVED BY THE H D R C STAFF RECOMMENDS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS ONE OVER ONE FULLY WOOD WINDOWS TO MATCH THE EXISTING CONFIG CONFIGURATION AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE AND WITH STAFF SPECIFICATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALLS A FULLY WOOD DOOR AND SUBMITS A SPECIFICATION FOR THE PROPOSED NEW DOOR TO STAFF FOR REVIEW AND APPROVAL PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A, OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. UM, CASE COMMENT, THE APPLICANT HAS CONSENTED TO ALL STAFF STIPULATIONS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ITEM NUMBER FOUR AND WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO REQUEST THAT THEY REPLACE ONE OF THE WINDOWS, UH, WITH A REPLACEMENT DOOR AND WOULD LIKE TO FOCUS ON THAT ITEM APPLICANT HERE PLEASE, MR. CHAIRMAN, IN LIGHT OF THE, UH, THE FACT THAT THE APPLICANT IS NOT PRESENT AND BECAUSE OF THE, SOME OF THE COMPLEXITIES AND NUANCES OF THIS PROJECT, I WOULD MOVE FOR THIS TO BE CONTINUED SHOULD WE APPROVE THE ITEMS THAT SHE ALREADY CONCURS WITH AND THEN JUST LEAVE THAT ITEM. I THINK, I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT SUGGESTION. LET ME MODIFY MY MOTION TO APPROVE THE ITEMS THAT THE APPLICANT IS IN CONCURRENCE WITH AND TO, UH, HAVE CONTINUANCE FOR THE ITEMS INVOLVING THE REPLACEMENT WINDOW VERSUS DOOR SECOND. SO IT'S APPROVE ITEM ONE THROUGH THREE WITH STIPULATIONS, CORRECT. WE HA WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND WE NEED CLARIFICATION ON THE MOTION, RACHEL, IS THAT CORRECT? IT'S ITEMS ONE THROUGH THREE THAT THEY'RE IN CONCURRENCE WITH AND THEY WOULD COME BACK FOR FOUR? CORRECT. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. AGENDA [B-31 19-9319 Address/Description: 603 CEDAR ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-729 Historic District Name: King William Applicant: David Torres/KM Builders Request: Installation of a rear side addition and deck City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM NUMBER B 31 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2019 DASH 7 29 ADDRESS, 6 0 3 CEDAR STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT AN ADDITION WITHIN AN EXISTING ROOF LINE AT THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE STRUCTURE TO PARTIALLY DEMOLISH EXISTING ENCLOSURE AND REMOVE EXISTING NON-ORIGINAL WINDOWS TO INSTALL THREE NEW WOOD WINDOWS TO MATCH EXISTING HISTORIC WINDOWS TO INSTALL FRENCH DOORS AT REAR ENTRANCE TO CONSTRUCT A NEW REAR DECK AND INSTALL NEW EXTERIOR LANTERNS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST ITEMS BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH [06:05:01] I WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL FULLY WOOD WINDOWS TO MATCH THE EXISTING ORIGINAL WINDOWS AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE AND MEET STAFF SPECIFICATIONS THAT ANY MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT IS CONCEALED FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY, THAT THE FIBER CEMENT SKIRTING HAVE A MAXIMUM REVEAL OF FOUR INCHES AND FEATURE A SMOOTH FINISH. NOFO GRAIN TEXTURE IS PERMITTED. THE APPLICANT. I, UH, I WOULD SUBMIT THAT WE WOULD, UH, CONCUR WITH THE THIRD ITEM ON THE FOUR INCH REVEAL ON THE SIDING AND SMOOTH. AND THE SECOND ITEM MENTIONED BEING SCREENING THE MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT, SCREENING THE MECHANICAL. IF WE, IF WE COULD DO THAT, UH, KEEP IT ON THE SIDE. I HAVE A PHOTO SHOWING THE SIDE THAT I FEEL THAT WE'VE PROPOSED IT ON AND IT'S A LOT FURTHER AWAY FROM PUBLIC VIEW ON THE SIDE THAT WE PROPOSED IT ON AS OPPOSED TO WHERE IT IS NOW. AND I, I WASN'T QUITE SURE OF THE LANGUAGE IF PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY MEANT EITHER OF THOSE STREETS. IF IT DOES, THEN I GUESS WE SCREEN IT EITHER WAY AND, AND I GUESS THE PROPOSED LOCATION IS ACCEPTABLE, BUT CURRENTLY RIGHT THERE AND, AND THAT'S THE SIDE WE WANNA PUT IT ON, IT'S FURTHER AWAY DOWN THAT SIDE AND, UH, HARDER TO SEE BECAUSE OF THE, THE SPACE BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS AND WE WOULD SKIRT IT. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU CONCUR. WE DO WITH EITHER LOCATION. AS LONG AS THAT LOCATION IS ACCEPTABLE, WE WOULD CONCUR. OKAY. AND THEN THE FIRST ITEM ON THE, THE WINDOWS, WE WOULD, UH, SUBMIT THAT ALL THE SPECIFICATIONS BY STAFF ARE, ARE ACCEPTABLE EXCEPT THAT WE WOULD LIKE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF BEING A VINYL WRAPPED WINDOW, THAT, UH, FOR MAINTENANCE PURPOSES AND BETTER INSULATED VALUES, THE, THE JAM, THE, EXCUSE ME, THE, UH, GUIDE WOULD BE VINYL AND THE WOOD WOULD BE A WOOD WINDOW, BUT WRAPPED IN VINYL. AND THAT'LL ALLOW FOR FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS OF THE HOME. IF THE, IF THE CUSTOMER SO DESIRES, IT'LL GIVE VIRTUALLY THE SAME APPEARANCE EXCEPT A, UH, A LOT LOWER MAINTENANCE FOR, FOR THAT, THAT TYPE OF PRODUCT. ALL OF THE OTHER MEASUREMENTS WOULD BE THE SAME. COULD PULL UP AND REPLAY THE LAST TIME WE SAW THIS WINDOW , SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENED BEFORE. UH, YES. RECENTLY. UM, THERE'S A MATERIALITY PROBLEM ON THE EXTERIOR WITH A VINYL CLAD. I UNDERSTAND THAT. UM, FROM A MAINTENANCE AND INSULATION STANDPOINT, IT'S A, A VERY GOOD PRODUCT AND THEY'RE NOT CHEAP WINDOWS. I UNDERSTAND THAT. UM, BUT THE MATERIALITY OF THE EXTERIOR IS IMPORTANT TO US AND I DON'T SEE US APPROVING THAT TODAY. UM, IS IT DUE TO A GLOSS OR IS IT DUE TO SOME OTHER APPEARANCE? SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT VINYL IN PARTICULAR, WHEN IT'S A VINYL CLAD WOOD, UM, VINYL IS TYPICALLY VERY DIFFICULT TO PAINT, WHICH, WHICH, UH, OTHER HISTORIC WINDOWS IN THE CONTEXT ARE PAINTED. IT DOES HAVE A DIFFERENT FINISH. IT HAS TENDS TO CHANGE OVER TIME AND CHALK. SO IT, IT HAS A MATERIAL QUALITY THAT AGES LIKE VINYL ON A VINYL CLAD PRODUCT. UM, ON NEW CONSTRUCTION, WE RECOMMEND WOOD. UH, BUT WE, BUT WE HAVE A, A BIT OF A, A POLICY THAT WE ACCEPT ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD, WHICH DEALS WITH A LOT OF THE, THE, UH, THE MAINTENANCE ISSUES AND, UM, THAT'S BEEN CONSIDERED, UH, FAVORABLY, BUT WE HAVEN'T GOT THERE WITH VINYL. I'M SORRY. AND CAN I ALSO ADD THAT WE LOOK FOR REPLACING THE SAME MATERIAL? YES. ON A HISTORIC BUILDING, UM, IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACING KIND, WHICH IS WOOD IS WOOD IS WOOD IS WOOD. AND WE WOULDN'T CONSIDER ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD UNLESS IT WAS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. SO THEN WE WILL CONCUR WITH THAT AND WE'LL, GREAT. THEN I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF. STIPULATIONS. SECOND. MOTION SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE, SIR. [B-32 19-9315 Address/Description: 145 E AGARITA AVE HDRC Case No.: 2019-714 Historic District Name: Monte Vista Applicant: TERIN LOWAK Request: Rooftop pergola City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM B 32, CASE NUMBER 20 19 7 14 AT 1 45 EAST AGARITA AVENUE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ADD A PERGOLA TO THE EXISTING ROOFTOP DECK. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED BASED ON FINDING B AND C. IF THE COMMISSION DENIES THE REQUEST, THE STRUCTURE SHOULD BE REMOVED WITHIN 90 DAYS UNLESS OTHERWISE COORDINATED WITH STAFF. UH, FOR THE CONTEXT, THIS, UH, PERGOLA WAS ALREADY INSTALLED PRIOR TO APPROVAL AND WAS CITED BY ANOTHER APPLICANT FOR THEIR ROOFTOP PERGOLA REQUEST. SORRY, . UM, WELL I'M TARYN. I'M THE DIRECTOR FOR THE BONNER GARDENS BED AND BREAKFAST AT UC RIGHT HERE. UH, WE DID CONSTRUCT THIS PERGOLA BACK IN JUNE. UH, WE WERE NOTIFIED [06:10:01] BY, UH, THE COMMISSION IN NOVEMBER THAT IT WAS A VIOLATION AND I ONLY ASSUME THAT'S BECAUSE THE TREES KIND OF, UH, WARPED THAT AWAY. SO ANYWAY, LONG STORY SHORT, UM, WE DO REALLY LOVE THIS EDITION AND I'M HOPE THAT WE CAN HOPEFULLY FIND SOMETHING, UH, COMMON GROUND, MAYBE MOVING IT BACK SO MAYBE IT'S NOT SO VISIBLE, UH, IN THE CHANGE OF SEASON TIME. UM, BUT YEAH, WE REALLY LOVE IT. . SO, MR. CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF A QUESTION. YES, SIR. UH, IS, IS THE, IS IT THE PERGOLA ITSELF OR IS IT HOW THE PERGOLA LOOKS? IT WOULD BE THE VISIBILITY FROM THE STREET, VISIBILITY FROM THE STREET. SO, SO IT ISN'T THAT THERE'S A, AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO DO A PERGOLA, IT'S THAT YOU DON'T WANNA SEE IT FROM THE STREET? I WILL SAY THAT THERE WAS A PERGOLA ON A ROOF AT THE LAST AGENDA THAT STAFF DIDN'T, NO RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF. UM, THE APPLICANT CAME IN AND EXPLAINED, UM, THE MATERIALITY AND THE QUALITY OF IT AND THE POSITIONING TOWARDS THE MIDDLE AND BACK OF THE HOUSE VERSUS THE FRONT. UM, AND IT WAS ULTIMATELY APPROVED. OKAY. I DO AGREE. I THINK VISIBILITY. SO IS THERE ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO MOVE IT BACK? UM, I MEAN, THERE'S ONLY ONE PICTURE WHERE IT DOESN'T SHOW VISIBLE, BUT IT'S REALLY JUST LITERALLY A BRANCH COVERING IT UP. SO IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU WOULD MOVE? IS THERE A WAY FOR YOU TO DO THAT? I, I HOPE SO. I'D HAVE TO CONSULT WITH MY CONTRACTOR. IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN COME BACK AND HOPEFULLY, UM, I CAN GIVE YOU A FOR SURE ANSWER ON THAT. THE COMPLIANCE CASE OR IS IT A YES, IT'S A COMPLIANCE CASE, BUT, UH, THE STAFF CAN TAKE THE DIRECTION OF THE COMMISSION ON HOW TO COORDINATE THAT COMPLIANCE. WOULD, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO HOST A SITE VISIT TO LOOK AT THIS AND WALK UP ON THE ROOF? ABSOLUTELY. AND SEE WHAT THE POSSIBILITIES ARE. MAYBE YOU CAN HAVE YOUR CONTRACTOR AVAILABLE. I, I WOULD MOVE, UH, TO THE D R C FOR A SITE VISIT. SECOND MOTION. TURN A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU GUYS. Y'ALL HAVE A GOOD EVENING. CASE NUMBER [B-33 19-9367 Address/Description: 810 NOLAN HDRC Case No.: 2019-737 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Carlos Martinez Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 2] B 33 OR AGENDA ITEM B 33. CASE NUMBER 20 19 7 37 AT EIGHT 10 NOLAN, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO PLACE 11 WINDOWS WITH NEW ALUMINUM WINDOWS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON THE FINDINGS. ALL WOOD WINDOWS AND THEIR COMPONENTS, IF FOUND BEYOND REPAIR, SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH WOOD WINDOWS THAT ADHERE TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOW REPLACEMENT. AS PROPOSED AND INSTALL THE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS DO NOT COMPLY IN MATERIAL GLAZING TRIM, AND STAFF REMAINS CONCERNED ABOUT THE OVERALL CRAFTSMANSHIP OF THE INSTALLATION. APPLICANT, PLEASE COME FORWARD. GOOD EVENING. UH, MY NAME IS CARLOS MARTINEZ, REPRESENTING EIGHT 10 NOLAN STREET. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS, UH, AFTER WE'VE INSTALLED 11 WINDOWS. UM, THEY WERE MADE OUT OF VINYL, AND I KNOW LOOKING AROUND, I KNOW IT'S ALL PRO, UH, WOOD WINDOWS. UH, WE'D LIKE, UM, EVERYONE TO TAKE IN CONSIDERATION THAT THIS, UM, THIS MULTI-FAMILY HOME HAS BEEN, UM, BEEN A MULTI-FAMILY HOME FOR A LONG TIME. IT'S BEEN, UH, THROUGH MODIFICATIONS, ALTERATIONS, UM, ALL KINDS OF THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE TO IT. UH, AT THE TIME WE WERE UNAWARE AND, AND WE WEREN'T SURE THAT, THAT WE WERE NOT ABLE TO, UH, CHANGE OUT THE WINDOWS. UM, WE DID ALL THE BOTTOM FLOOR, UH, 11 WINDOWS, SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT DOESN'T MEET THE SPECIFICATIONS. UM, OUR PROPOSAL, UM, WELL THE REASONS WE DID IT, WHICH, WHICH PROBABLY BEEN TALKED ABOUT ARE ENERGY EFFICIENCY, UM, LACK OF FUNCTIONALITY. ALL THE WINDOWS WERE SCREWED IN AND YOU WERE UNABLE TO OPEN 'EM. UH, SO WE FELT THAT WAS A SAFETY HAZARD. UM, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS THAT WE LEAVE THE WINDOWS IN PLACE AND, UM, COVER THEM UP WITH A, WITH A CUSTOM WOOD SCREEN THAT IS, UM, THAT MATCHES THE ARCHITECTURAL TIME PERIOD OF THE HOME. UM, THAT WAY YOU CAN ACTUALLY PAINT THE, THE WOOD SCREEN, WHATEVER COLOR YOU WANT AND ACTUALLY ACTUALLY CAN COVER THE, THE GLOSSINESS OF THE WINDOW THAT CURRENTLY PLACED THERE AT THIS TIME. UM, WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THOSE PICTURES, UM, I GUESS ON THE PRESENTATION, BUT WE DO HAVE THREE HANDOUTS THAT, UM, WE PRINTED OUT. IF WE COULD PASS THAT ALONG. SO THESE ARE VINYL WINDOWS? YES. THESE ARE VINYL WINDOWS. WHAT, WHAT TYPE OF WINDOWS DID YOU TEAR OUT? THEY WERE WOOD WINDOWS DOUBLE HUNG. UM, THEY WERE VERY DETERIORATED. UM, THE HOUSE, YOU CAN'T REALLY TELL ON THE FRONT THERE, BUT THE HOUSE IS LEANING QUITE SIGNIFICANTLY. WATER WAS GOING INTO THE HOUSE. IT DAMAGED THE WINDOWS AS WELL AS THE WALLS THEMSELVES. OKAY. BUT THERE, I MEAN, THERE'S TWO ISSUES HERE. THERE'S THE, THE REMOVAL OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT THAT'S AN ISSUE. UM, BUT, BUT IT'S LOST. SO THAT'S, I ASSUME [06:15:01] DONE RIGHT. THE, THE, THE NEXT ISSUE IS, UM, A SUITABLE REPLACEMENT FOR WOOD WINDOWS THAT WERE LOST. AND, UM, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS GONNA BE WOOD WINDOWS. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO HOW, HOW MANY OF THE WINDOWS WERE PULLED? JUST HELP ME. IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY. HOW MANY, HOW MANY WOOD WINDOWS REMAIN? HOW MANY, UH, I BELIEVE LIKE EIGHT ON THE TOP FLOOR. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ONES THAT WERE PULLED THAT STILL JUST REMAIN? HOW MANY REMAIN INSTALLED? ARE THE ONES IN THE SECOND STORY STILL THERE? OR, OR HAVE THEY BEEN PULLED? OKAY. HOW MANY OF THE FIRST STORY WINDOWS REMAIN ON SITE? UH, THREE. CHANGE ANY OF THE SIZES OF THE, DID YOU MODIFICATIONS? UM, OR YOU DID RIGHT? 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T GET VINYL. THEY DID. THEY'RE THEY'RE WITHIN LIKE AN INCH. RIGHT. BUT THEY ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. YES. HOW DID YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE DIMENSIONAL DIFFERENCE? YOU MODIFY THE WOOD. DID YOU MODIFY THE WINDOW TRIM? DID YOU, HOW DID YOU HANDLE THAT? WE HAD TO REFRAME MOST OF THE WINDOWS BECAUSE THEY WERE, UH, LEANING PROBABLY WITHIN, UM, AMOUNT OF FOUR INCHES FROM THE BASE OF THE WINDOW TO THE TOP OF THE WINDOW. UM, SAY THAT AGAIN. THEY WERE, THE WALL WAS LEANING ABOUT FOUR INCHES FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE WINDOW TO THE TOP OF THE WINDOW OBVI AND AS WELL AS ON THE SIDE ON SOME OF 'EM. SO WE HAD TO RET TRIMM THE WINDOWS. I MEAN, I'M SORRY, REFRAME. WELL, YOU DO REALIZE YOU'RE NOT GONNA OPEN THOSE VINYL WINDOWS IN NOT LONG. UM, I THINK THAT EITHER WE NEED A WINDOW SCHEDULE THAT SHOWS US EXACTLY WHICH WINDOWS AND I THINK MAYBE A D R C VISIT THAT MOCK-UP OF A WHI SCREEN IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE APPROVED HERE BEFORE THAT WAY. OKAY. AND I DON'T THINK THAT SCREENING, IT IS NOT GONNA SOMETHING THAT THIS COMMISSION WILL APPROVE. MAYBE LOOKING AT WHERE THEY'RE AT, WHAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, FROM THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY DONE, AND LOOKING AT THE TOP WINDOWS, WHICH ONES ARE REPLACEABLE. BUT REPLACEABLE WILL BE IN KIND WOOD WINDOWS, SO NO MORE VINYL WINDOWS AT ALL. AND THEN WE WOULD SEE TO REPLACE IN KIND ANY OF THE REMAINING WINDOWS. AND THEN WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO WITH THE BOTTOM WINDOWS. MR. CHAD, I'D LIKE TO ASK STAFF A QUESTION. WINDOW. WINDOW IS INSTALLED ALREADY. UH, HOW DO YOU GET THE WINDOWS OUT? I MEAN, LET, LET'S JUST SAY THAT THERE WAS A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP. HOW, HOW, WHAT IS THE PROCESS THERE? DOES A PERSON GET FINED OR, SO WHAT HAPPENS? SO THE, THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU IS NOT ACTUALLY TO INSTALL CORRECT WINDOWS. UM, WHEN WORK IS DONE WITHOUT APPROVAL, THE, THE OPTION IS TO REMEDY THE SITUATION EITHER BY GETTING APPROVAL OR BY RETURNING IT TO THE PREVIOUS CONDITION. UM, SO THE COMMISSION IS BEING ASKED TO ACT AS IF THE WINDOWS HAVEN'T BEEN REPLACED YET, AS IF THE, AS THE WORK HASN'T BEEN DONE. UM, AND WHATEVER FINANCIAL HARDSHIPS MIGHT BE ASSOCIATED WITH RETURNING IT TO THE PREVIOUS CONDITION ISN'T REALLY PART OF THE COMMISSION'S, UH, DECISION MAKING. AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS REPLACING ALL WINDOWS. SO THE REQUEST IS TO REPLACE BECAUSE THEY'VE DONE IT AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO NOT HAVE TO REDO IT. IF THE, IF THE REQUEST BEFORE YOU IS NOT APPROVED, THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO RETURN TO THE EXISTING OR THE PREEXISTING CONDITION. UM, WHERE WINDOWS HAVE BEEN DISCARDED, OBVIOUSLY THEY CAN'T DO THAT. UM, SO THEY WOULD EITHER HAVE TO FABRICATE OR FIND MATCHING WINDOWS TO BE INSTALLED. AND WHAT I'M SUGGESTING IS SOMETIMES WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE CASE PAST CASES THAT WE GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS SINCE IT'S ALREADY THERE AND PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THE OLD WINDOW BACK, IS WHICH ONES ARE WE ABLE TO MAYBE REPLACE WITH SOMETHING IN KIND THAT WAS THERE BEFORE OR THE SOLUTION WITH THE SCREENS? I JUST FIND IT HARD TO PUT A SCREEN ON THE WINDOW THAT IS, FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE SCREEN, ON THE, ON THE BIG SCREEN RIGHT NOW. OKAY. BUT MAYBE LOOKING AT THE PROPERTY AS A WHOLE. SO I MOVE THIS TO A D R C SITE VISIT SECOND MOTION, AND SECOND TO SEND THIS TO D R C ALL IN, UM, ANY DISCUSSION? UH, ONE QUICK COMMENT THAT I, I THINK THAT THERE'S SOME OTHER CONSTRUCTABILITY ISSUES WITH THE WINDOWS AS CONSTRUCTED. SO I THINK THAT IT'S GONNA BE REALLY VALUABLE FOR YOU TO HAVE THESE GUYS AND US GO LOOK AT THESE WINDOWS. OKAY. JUST TO DETERMINE NEXT STEPS. SURE. SO I, THAT'S IT. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? DON'T TEAR OUT ANY MORE WINDOWS UNTIL WE GET THERE. . ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. DEFINITELY. LESSON MOTION APPROVE MINUTES FROM NO. DECEMBER 2ND. MOTION IS SECOND TO APPROVE. MINUTES OF WHATEVER MEETING THAT WAS. DECEMBER 2ND. DECEMBER 2ND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED DE MOTION PER PASSES DECEMBER 4TH. UM, DECEMBER 2ND. WE ARE ADJOURNED. WE MIGHT [06:20:01] HAVE TO DO IT AT THE NEXT MEETING WE DRAW. SO THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. WE'LL HANDLE THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING. MOTION TO ADJOURN. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.