* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] GOOD MORNING [9:00 AM – Call to Order] EVERYONE. I'D LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER FOR FRIDAY, JUNE THE 26TH. 2020 2026 AT NINE OH FIVE. ROLL CALL PLEASE. DAVIS. HERE, GARCIA. HERE. REGARD HERE. SPILLER. HERE. FULLERTON P*****K. HERE SPEEDS. VASQUEZ SEPULVEDA. HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM TRANSLATION SERVICES, PLEASE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, THE COMPLIANCE AND TECH TECHNICAL ADVISORY BOARD IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I AM JUANITA CHAIRWOMAN AND THE VICE CHAIR IS JASON VASQUEZ. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE BOARD TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING CERTAIN APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND LANDMARKS IN CONSIDER. IN CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE BOARD SHALL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR IN OPPOSITION TO AN ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER, OWNER OF, OR REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 15 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO MINUTE TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO SIGN UP TO YIELD THEIR TWO MINUTES TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME THE SPEAKER IS CALLED UPON. SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE BOARD DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE BOARD WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE, THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION. AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE ALL CELL PHONES AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AT THIS TIME. DO WE HAVE ANY STAFF ANNOUNCEMENTS? DO NOT. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. UM, WE JUST NEED APPROVAL FOR MEETING MINUTES FROM MAY 22ND. AT THIS TIME I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MAKE A MOTION. I ACCEPT THE MINUTES. SECOND. CURRENTLY THERE IS A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES FROM OUR PREVIOUS MEET, UH, MEETING. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS. AYE. GARCIA AYE. REGARD? AYE. SPILLER AYE. P*****K AYE. AND SEPULVEDA AYE. MOTION CARRIES. UM, AT THIS POINT WE CAN [CONSENT AGENDA The consent agenda consists of items recommended by staff for approval or approval with stipulations that the applicant accepts. Any member of the public who would like to speak on a consent agenda item may sign up and speak prior to the commission’s vote on the consent agenda. Commissioners may request to remove any item from the consent agenda to consider it individually. All items on the consent agenda will be considered for approval by one motion adopting the items with staff findings and recommendations.] BRING OUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. WE HAVE A VERY SHORT AGENDA TODAY. UM, WE HAVE ONE ITEM ON CONSENT. YOU CAN SEE IT THERE. UM, I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS OR IN-PERSON SPEAKERS FOR, FOR ANY ITEMS. UM, MUCH LESS ITEMS ON CONSENT. UM, SO AT THIS TIME YOU CAN TAKE UP THAT ITEM. I MOVE TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA. SECOND. IT CURRENTLY THERE IS A MOTION TO ACCEPT, UM, CONSENT. CONSENT ITEM ON THE AGENDA. I'LL TAKE ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS AYE. GARCIA AYE. REGARD? AYE. SPILLER AYE. P*****K. AYE. [00:05:01] AND PUL AYE. MOTION CARRIES. AT THIS TIME WE'LL ADDRESS ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FOR REVIEW. GOOD. GOOD MORNING, COMMISSIONERS. [INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION] THIS IS CA CASE 2026 DASH 1 44. ADDRESS, 3 22 LAY STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL. TWO. ONE. INSTALL A FOUR FOOT TALL STEEL POST IN WIRE FRONT YARD FENCE FEATURING A PEDESTRIAN GATE AND TWO DRIVEWAY GATES AT THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY. AND TWO, INSTALL A CONCRETE RIBBON DRIVEWAY AT THE NORTHEAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY IN FRONT OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE BASED ON FINDINGS B, C, AND D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE FENCE FEATURE FOUR BY FOUR SOLID WOOD POSTS THAT THE FENCE DOES NOT EXCEED FOUR FEET IN HEIGHT AT ANY PORTION OF THE FINAL INSTALLATION. THREE, THAT ONLY ONE DRIVEWAY GATE BE INSTALLED ALONG THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY AND BE SET BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE OF, UH, PLANE OF THE HOUSE. FOUR, THAT AN UPDATED SITE PLAN SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF SHOWING THE FENCE AND GATES ADHERE TO ALL STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO BASED ON FINDING. E STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT UTILIZE THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. AND I DO BELIEVE THAT THE HOMEOWNERS ARE HERE, ELLIOT, UH, AND MR. UH, CHESLER. SO IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO COME UP TO THE PODIUM AND INTRODUCE YOURSELVES, YOU'LL HAVE 12 MINUTES TO PRESENT YOUR REQUEST AND JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELVES FIRST AND THEN I CAN GO THROUGH YOUR, UH, YOUR PATH. OKAY. PERFECT. UM, MATTHEW CHESLER, UM, I'M, UH, HUSBAND ATA, ATA CHESLER. UM, ANY QUESTIONS TO START OFF THAT WE CAN ANSWER? OH, PUSH IF YOU'LL SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE MIC AND THEN PRESENT YOUR INFORMATION AND THEN WE'LL A WE'LL ADDRESS QUESTIONS AFTERWARDS. YES. DO I NEED TO PUSH? IT'S ON, RIGHT? OKAY. IT'S ON. UM, TALK ABOUT YOUR REQUEST. YES. SO CURRENTLY THERE IS A GRAVEL DRIVEWAY, UM, WHERE WE ARE REQUESTING THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY TO BE INSTALLED. UM, THE PROPERTY BELONGED TO MY FATHER BEFORE. UM, IT'S A LITTLE OVERGROWN AND KIND OF HARD TO SEE, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE EXISTENCE OF IT. THERE IS AN ENTRY ON THE SIDEWALK AS WELL, UM, ALLOWING FOR A VEHICLE TO BE PARKED THERE, WHICH MY DAD WOULD PARK A VEHICLE THERE SINCE. UM, THERE IS A DETACHED LIVING IN THE BACK AS WELL. UM, HOWEVER, UH, DUE TO THE WAY THE PIPING IS, THE PROPERTY WATERLINE AND THE SIDEWALK WATERLINE, SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY, THERE'S A KIND OF LIKE A RIGHT HOOK, UM, RIGHT TURN FOR THE PIPING AND IT WOULD LEAD TO A LOT OF LEAKS, UM, WHEN HE WOULD PARK THERE. UM, SOMETHING THAT HE HAD TO FREQUENTLY GET REPAIRED. AND SO THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY WE'RE REQUESTING IS JUST TO STABILIZE AND PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR THE GROUND, UM, AND UNDERLYING WATER LINES. UM, AND THEN WE DO HAVE A FAMILY. UM, WE HAVE A 2-YEAR-OLD AND A DOG. AND SO THE FENCE IS JUST TO PROVIDE SECURITY AND ASSURANCE FOR BOTH OUR FAMILY AND OUR PETS AND THOSE WHO WALK THE STREET. UM, WE ARE REQUESTING TO PUT IN A FENCE LIKE THIS, WHICH IS ACROSS THE STREET TO THE LEFT ONE HOUSE, I GUESS DIAGONAL IS A BETTER WORD TO USE. UM, SO IT WOULD MATCH EXISTING, UM, FENCES AND ENTRYWAYS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BLOCK ALREADY. UM, AND WE WOULD JUST LIKE TO ENCLOSE BOTH DRIVEWAYS. THEY HAVE THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY THERE. UM, AND THE GATE FOR PEDESTRIAN WOULD JUST BE FOR EASIER ACCESS TO OUR FRONT DOOR AS WELL. UM, ANYTHING ELSE? SO IT'S JUST FUNCTIONALITY FOR OUR HOME. THERE ARE SOME HOUSES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT DO MEET THE STANDARDS. MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN JUST, UM, UH, COMMERCIAL PEOPLE THAT FLIP HOUSES AND THEY'RE TYPICALLY USED AS AIRBNBS. AND SO IT'S NOT THE FUNCTIONALITY OF A HOME [00:10:01] THAT'S LIVED IN AS MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVE FENCES. UM, WE'RE MORE OR MATURE OWNER. UM, YEAH. YEAH, WE'RE JUST REALLY REQUESTING THAT FENCE FOR, YOU KNOW, OUR OWN PROTECTION AND PRIVACY. UM, JUST TO HAVE OUR OWN. AND WE OF COURSE WE WANNA MAKE IT, UM, AS AESTHETICALLY PLEASING AS POSSIBLE, UM, AND NOT DETRACT FROM THE HISTORICNESS OF THE HOME. UM, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, IN THE ARGUMENT THAT, UM, MANY OF THE HOUSES ON THAT BLOCK ALREADY DO HAVE, UM, FENCES OF THE SAME TYPE AND TO THEIR SIDEWALKS AS WELL WITH THE DOUBLE GATES. OKAY. OKAY. WE'RE ALSO WILLING TO COMPROMISE . UNDERSTOOD. SO, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME AND FOLLOWING OUR REGULATIONS, ESPECIALLY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO FOR THAT WE APPRECIATE IT. AT THIS TIME, I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE FLOOR TO MY RIGHT TO ASK SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES IF THEY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. UH, UH, MY QUESTION IS, UH, DEFENSE, THE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF DEFENSE, SO WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. BUT THE ISSUE HERE IS THE DRIVEWAY. AND YOU HADN'T MENTIONED ANY REASON OR, OR ANY SUPPORT FOR WHY YOU WENT TO DRIVEWAY? UM, WELL PERSONALLY, I THINK TO DRIVEWAY WOULD MATCH MORE THE AESTHETIC OF THE ALREADY ESTABLISHED FENCES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, THE, TO THE SIDEWALK ALLOWS US TO PUT A SLIDING GATE IN, PREFER AN AUTOMATIC ONE, UM, VERSUS A SINK, A SWINGING ONE. UM, WHICH WOULD WE JUST WANNA PREVENT ACCIDENTS AND NOT HITTING STUFF OR, UM, BEING ABLE TO FUNCTIONALLY HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S MEETS OUR NEEDS BETTER. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? I ACTUALLY HAVE A COUPLE, UM, LOOKING IN YOUR DIAGRAM, THE FRONT HOUSE, IS THAT THE ONE THAT YOU RESIDE IN OR DO YOU RESIDE ON THE, ON THE SECOND ONE, WE RESIDE IN THE FRONT. MY MOTHER LIVES IN THE BACK. OKAY, SO THERE'S TWO ACTUAL RESIDENCIES THERE? YES. OKAY. AND ON THE FIRST ONE, IF YOU GO TO THIS, THE RIGHT THERE, RIGHT THERE, ADRIAN ON THE DRIVEWAY YES. ON THE REGULATIONS. THE ONLY REASON I'M ASKING IS BECAUSE, ONE, I DO APPRECIATE THAT YOU'RE HERE MM-HMM . BUT IN SOME OF THE COMPLIANCES WITH THE UPDATED AND MOST CURRENT ONES MM-HMM . THEY DO IT FOR THE SAFETY BECAUSE OF WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE POSITIONED. AND I DO UNDERSTAND I CAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND IT, BUT THEY DO IT WITH BEING FLUSH OF THE BUILDING. THE OTHER THING TOO, WITH YOUR HOME ON THE ORIGINALITY, SEE HOW YOU HAVE THE FRONT, HAVE YOU TAKEN A LOOK ON HOW YOU'RE ADDRESSING THAT? BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING AN ADDITIONAL PARKING TO THE FRONT, BUT I DON'T SEE, AS I WAS RESEARCHING IN SOME OF THE AREAS WHERE THE FENCE IS COMPLETELY FLUSH UP TO THE DRIVEWAY, BUT IT, THERE'S ALSO, UM, I BELIEVE IN, WHAT IS IT, THE LANDSCAPING, THERE'S SOME IN COMPLIANCE IN WITH THE LANDSCAPING TOO THAT WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED WITH. ESPECIALLY SINCE IT IS IN A, IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT. HAVE YOU, THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION. THE OTHER THING, ONE MORE THING, DRIVEN DRIVEWAY. OKAY. THE OTHER THING TOO, ON THE GATES, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE OFFERING THE WOOD, RIGHT? AND I UNDERSTAND WITH THE METAL RIGHT, BEING ABLE TO SLIDE, BUT SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT WERE RECENTLY UPDATED. SO HAVE YOU TAKEN A LOOK AT THAT ONLY BECAUSE OF COMPLIANCE. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. HAVE YOU EVER, HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO REVIEW THAT AND DISCUSS IT WITH THE DEPARTMENT? JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT, LIKE YOU SAID, WE WANNA BE ABLE TO DO THE COMPROMISING, SO THAT WAY, ONE, WE OFFER THE SAFETY THAT YOU WANT FOR YOUR FAMILIES MM-HMM . 'CAUSE THAT IS GONNA BE THE TOP PRIORITY. BUT THE OTHER THING TOO, WE ALSO HAVE AN OBLIGATION WITH COMPLIANCE FOR HISTORY. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'VE ALREADY ADDRESSED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE AMENDMENTS? WE DID HAVE A CONVERSATION, YES, MA'AM. CHAIR. SO WE'VE HAD A CONVERSATION IN WHICH, UM, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE WE DISCUSS OUR GUIDELINES AND OUR STAFF POSITION IN TERMS OF, UH, FOR ONE, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE IT'S A TWO PART REQUEST, RIGHT? SO ONE IS THE FRONT YARD FENCE WITH THE DRIVEWAY GATES. WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE FRONT YARD FENCE IN GENERAL, BUT, UM, WE FEEL, YOU KNOW, BASED ON, UM, PRECEDENT AS WELL AS OUR GUIDELINES THAT A, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT THE FENCE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE IF IT HAS, UH, WOODEN POSTS AS OPPOSED TO METAL POSTS. SO THE DESIGN THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, AND I'LL JUST GO TO IT SINCE WE HAVE IT RIGHT HERE, [00:15:01] IS SOMETHING LIKE THIS, WHICH IS, UM, IT'S A HOUSE THAT'S A FEW STREETS DOWN FROM THEM. AND THIS, SO AGAIN, SO THIS RIGHT HERE IS A FENCE THAT, YOU KNOW, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN APPROVALS FOR IN THE PAST, BUT WHEN IT'S NOT A TRADITIONAL WROUGHT IRON GATE, WHEN IT'S A BIT MORE OF A STEEL MESH PANEL GATE, UM, YOU KNOW, IT STARTS TO KIND OF GO TOWARDS THE CATTLE PANEL FENCE, EVEN IF WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY CONSIDER THIS TO BE ONE. SO, UM, FOR THIS KIND OF FENCE, OUR, OUR DESIGN RECOMMENDATION IS, UH, WOOD POSTS. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE FIRST THING CONSIDERING THE FRONT YARD FENCE. NOW THE SECOND PART OF THAT FIRST REQUEST, OF COURSE, ARE THE TWO DRIVEWAY GATES, RIGHT? AND SO IF I WERE TO GO TO, AGAIN, THAT SAME PROPERTY, THIS HOUSE, UM, AND AS FAR AS I CAN TELL THIS, THIS GATE HAS BEEN THERE SINCE AT LEAST 2012 WHEN OUR GUIDELINES WERE ADOPTED. SO THIS, THIS GATE'S PRETTY OLD. UM, UH, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A DRIVEWAY GATE THAT'S AGAIN, RIGHT AT THE APRON, OR IN OTHER WORDS, RIGHT AT THE SIDEWALK. NOW OUR FENCE POLICY GUIDE STATES THAT ANY, UH, NEW, UH, DRIVEWAY GATE SHOULD BE AT THE PLANE OF THE HOUSE. SO IF YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING AT THE SCREEN, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE BACK HERE. THAT'S WHERE OUR POLICY GUIDE, UH, SAYS A DRIVEWAY GATE IS APPROPRIATE. SO THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TWO GATES, BOTH AT THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY LINE, IN OTHER WORDS, RIGHT AT THE SIDEWALKS OR THE DRIVEWAY APRONS, ONE ON THEIR EXISTING DRIVEWAY TO ESSENTIALLY MIRROR THIS KIND OF GATE. AND THEN THE SECOND ONE WOULD BE FOUR. AND IF I'LL JUST GO REALLY QUICKLY TO THE, UM, I'LL GO TO THIS, THIS ONE RIGHT HERE. SO THEY HAVE A SECOND, UH, DRIVEWAY APRON, AND THEY'RE REQUESTING, AGAIN, THAT'S THAT SECOND REQUEST A, UH, TO REPLACE THIS GRAVEL HERE WITH A RIBBON DRIVEWAY. A CONCRETE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. NOW OUR GUIDELINES WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, THIS HOUSE ALREADY HAS, UH, ONE, UH, DRIVEWAY THAT ADHERES TO HISTORIC GUIDELINES. IT'S 10 FEET WIDE. UM, AND THIS OTHER DRIVEWAY RIGHT HERE, UH, SHOULD IT BE APPROVED, YOU KNOW, FOR US AS STAFF, WE VIEW THAT AS A NON-CONFORMING DRIVEWAY WHERE IT WOULD BE IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE AND THEN OF COURSE WOULD BE A SECOND DRIVEWAY FOR THE, FOR THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS NOT, UM, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THERE'S MUCH PRECEDENT FOR. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S VERY CONSISTENT WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PATTERN. SO, YOU KNOW, FOR US, OUR RECOMMENDATION, AND I'LL GO TO THEIR SITE PLAN HERE, IS TO HAVE A FRONT YARD FENCE WITH JUST A PEDESTRIAN GATE IN THIS SECTION IN WHICH THE STEEL PANELS ARE FINE, BUT WE WOULD, WE RECOMMEND WOODEN POSTS AND THEN FOR ONE DRIVEWAY GATE, RIGHT AT THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE WHERE I'M, I'M DRAWING THAT SECOND, UH, LINE. SO, UM, I, I HOPE THAT CLARIFIES THE REQUEST AS WELL AS OUR STAFF POSITION. AND, UM, AND, AND THE APPLICANT AND I, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE HAD SEVERAL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT IT. SO, UM, SO THEY, THEY KNOW THE STAFF POSITION, BUT OF COURSE, UM, THIS IS THE REQUEST THAT THEY'RE PRESENTING BEFORE YOU ALL, ADRIAN, I'M GONNA RESTATE THAT ONE MORE TIME. A PEDESTRIAN GATE, PRETTY MUCH, UM, DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE DOORWAY, THE GATE FLUSH WITH THE HOUSE EDGING, BUT THE GATE CAN, UH, ANOTHER FENCING CAN GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE FRONT, ALONG THE DRIVEWAY TO THE HOUSE. IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. SO A FENCE IN THIS SECTION MM-HMM . SO RIGHT HERE MM-HMM . AND THEN OF COURSE ON THE FRONT WITH ONE PEDESTRIAN GATE. UM, AGAIN, THAT, THAT ADHERES TO OUR POLICY GUIDE, OUR FENCE POLICY GUIDE. AND, UM, AND, AND IT'S TOTALLY FINE. AGAIN, WE, THAT'S VERY APPROPRIATE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'VE APPROVED IN THE PAST. SO THE ISSUE IS NOT WITH THIS FENCE OR WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, OR WITH THE PEDESTRIAN GATE, THE PEDESTRIAN GATES ARE ABSOLUTELY FINE RIGHT AT THE PROPERTY LINE WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS. IT'S ONLY THE, THE DRIVEWAY GATES, THE, FOR THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY AS WELL AS FOR THE PROPOSED. AND THAT IS WHAT'S CURRENTLY, 'CAUSE I WAS READING THE REGULATIONS LAST NIGHT, THAT IS WHAT'S CURRENTLY AS UPDATED AS OF 2012, I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT, YES. SO THERE'S TWO, THERE'S TWO GUIDE SETS OF GUIDELINES THAT ARE APPROPRIATE TO, UM, DISCUSS BECAUSE THEY'RE THE TWO APPLICABLE ONES. SO OF COURSE OUR MAIN HISTORIC AND DESIGN GUIDELINES, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT WERE ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL IN 2012. SO THAT'S OF COURSE WHERE OUR CITATIONS BEGIN, YOU KNOW, WHERE EVERYTHING KIND OF STARTS. AND THEN FROM THERE WE HAVE A, UM, A SECOND, UM, SUPPLEMENTARY POLICY GUIDE SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO FENCING. AND THAT ONE WAS ADOPTED, I BELIEVE IN 2022. SO THAT ONE IS THE ONE THAT [00:20:01] HAS, UM, A VERY SPECIFIC SITE PLAN THAT, UM, DICTATES THAT ANY NEW DRIVEWAY GATE SHOULD BE LOCATED AT THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE RIGHT HERE. OKAY. I JUST NEED CLARIFICATION. JUST MAKE SURE, BECAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS I WAS REVIEWING. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MY PANEL? JUST A MOMENT. I JUST HAD A, A COUPLE. SO WITH THE FENCE, ARE YOU GUYS OPPOSED TO WOOD POST FOR SOME REASON OR, UM, WE WERE JUST GOING ROT IRON BECAUSE THAT'S MORE STRUCTURALLY SOUND FOR THE TYPE OF GATE, FOR THE DRIVEWAY THAT WE PREFER. UM, 'CAUSE THE, BUT IF WE CAN MAKE IT WORK WITH WOOD POSTS, WE WOULD BE PERFECTLY FINE DOING THAT IF, WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. YEAH. DOES THE FENCE OPERATE THE SAME WAY? WHETHER THE POSTS ARE, IS THERE ANY REASON IT HAS TO BE STEEL FOR SOME, UM, IT'S JUST, UH, FOR LONGEVITY AND SO IT'S LIKE AN AESTHETIC AND JUST STEEL LASTS LONGER THAN WOOD STRUCTURE. YEAH. BUT THE WOOD CAN HOLD UP IF, IF, IF WE CAN MAKE THE ENGINEERINGLY SPEAKING IT WOULDN'T KNOW. BUT, UM, IF WOOD WORKS FOR US, WE HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE WOOD. UM, IT'S JUST THE RAW IRON IS WHAT WE NOTICED THE MOST THROUGHOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO IT'S WHY WE REQUESTED THAT. 'CAUSE IT'S ACROSS THE STREET, MULTIPLE HOUSES ON THE SAME BLOCK. UM, AND IT JUST SEEMED LIKE LONGEVITY. AS HE SAID, THAT FENCE HAS BEEN THERE FOR QUITE A WHILE AND IT'S STILL STANDING VERSUS LIKE THE WOODEN POST FENCE, A LOT OF THEM ARE LEANING, UM, AND THEY'RE NOT AS OLD AS THAT RAW IRON, UM, FENCE. UM, BUT WE DON'T NEED BOTH DRIVEWAYS, IT'S JUST WHAT HAS, HOW THE HOME HAS BEEN FUNCTIONALLY USED WITH MY FATHER LIVING THERE. UM, JUST BECAUSE THERE IS THAT SECOND LIVING HOME. AND SO HE WOULD PARK IN THE FRONT SO THAT THERE COULD BE AXIS DIRECTLY TO THE REAR HOUSE, UM, YEAH, WITHOUT BLOCKING AND THAT, BECAUSE IT'S JUST THAT LONG IWAY. UM, AND THAT'S WHY HE HAD THAT DEVELOPED. AND SO WE WERE JUST TRYING TO, UM, JUST FORTIFY IT SO THAT WE DON'T RUN INTO THE ISSUE WITH LEAKS, BUT WE CAN MAKE IT WORK WITH JUST THE ONE FENCE. UM, IF THAT IS A COMPROMISE THAT WE CAN COME TO, IS JUST DOING THE ONE FENCE TO THE SIDEWALK SO THAT IT RUNS IN LINE WITH IT. AND UM, 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T DO THE SLIDING ONE 'CAUSE OF THE HOUSES, JUST THE WAY THE DRIVEWAYS ARE. IT'S 10 FEET RIGHT. ABOUT, AND, AND THEN YOU HAVE LIKE AN EXTRA TWO FEET THAT ARE THE ACTUAL PROPERTY BEFORE YOU FIVE FEET PROBABLY BETWEEN THE DRIVEWAY AND THE NEXT HOUSE. UM, AND IF WE'RE, AND WE ALSO HAVE A GAS METER RIGHT AT OUR HOUSE. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THE PICTURES. IT'S LIKE RIGHT ON THE CORNER OF THE FRONT PROPERTY, UM, LIKE BEHIND THAT TREE. SO IT'S THE ELECTRICAL BOXES. AND THEN ON THE FLOOR IS ALSO THE GAS METER. SO WE, WE WOULD RUN INTO SOME TROUBLE OF, OF PUTTING STOCKS OR BEING THE POSTS, THE THINKING, THE FENCE. YEAH. UM, THE GAS METER IS LOCATED DIRECTLY ON THE CORNER OF THE HOUSE. UM, SO WE WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO WORK AROUND THAT. AND, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE ELIMINATING NOT BEING ABLE TO FORTIFY THE DRIVEWAY THAT HAS BEEN USED ON THE FRONT LEFT OF THE HOUSE, UM, A SWINGING DOOR WOULD ALSO, UM, LIMIT HOW MUCH YOU CAN'T PARK A CAR RIGHT UP TO THE FENCE LINE OR ON THE OTHER SIDE BECAUSE THAT SWINGING DOOR IS GONNA NEED SOME CLEARANCE SINCE IT IS 10 FEET WIDE. UM, SO WE'RE TAKING AWAY FROM, WE'RE TAKING AWAY MORE PARKING SPACE AND SINCE THERE IS TWO LIVING, UM, SPACES ON THE PROPERTY, WE ARE JUST TRYING TO OPTIMIZE AND FUNCTIONALLY USE THE AVAILABLE SPACE BETTER. BUT IF WE COULD DO ENCLOSED NOT THE SECOND, THE DRIVEWAY TO THE LEFT OF THE HOUSE AND JUST DO A PEDESTRIAN GATE AND THE GATE TO THE STREET THAT MATCHES THE REST ON THE PROPERTY, WE WOULD BE VERY HAPPY WITH THAT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE DO HAVE THAT GAS METER, UM, AT THE PROPERTY AT THE HOUSE. AND THEN THE SWINGING DOOR WOULD ALSO TAKE AWAY MORE PARKING SPACE. UM, AND MOST FAMILIES, I MEAN WE HAVE TWO VEHICLES. MY MOM HAS ONE AND YOU KNOW, IF OUR DAUGHTER EVER GETS, IF WE LIVE THERE AND OUR DAUGHTER DRIVES, YOU KNOW, IT'S FOR TYPICALLY HOMES HAVE ANYWHERE FROM FOUR TO FIVE HOUSES AND THERE'S TWO HOUSES. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO OPTIMIZE THE USE OF THIS NEW HOME. UNDERSTOOD. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? GO AHEAD. NO MORE QUESTIONS. NO, [00:25:01] I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. GO AHEAD. UM, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT WE SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE WITH THE STIPULATIONS THAT ARE NOTED THAT THE FENCE FEATURE FOUR BY FOUR SOLID WOULD POSTS THAT IT NOT EXCEED FOUR FEET IN HEIGHT AT ANY PORTION OF FINAL INSTALLATION. THAT ONLY ONE DRIVEWAY GATE BE INSTALLED ALONG THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY PROPERTY AND BE SET BACK BEHIND THE PLANE OF THE HOUSE. AND THAT AN UPDATED SITE PLAN SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF SHOWING THE FENCE AND GATES ADHERE TO ALL STIPULATION, UH, ISSUANCE OF A AND AN ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. AND THAT, UM, ITEM TWO IS NOT GIVEN APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING E AND THAT, UM, THE STAFF RECOMMENDS THE APPLICANT UTILIZE THE EAST DRIVEWAY AND THE WESTERN THE, I CAN'T READ IT. IT'S UTILIZE THE DRIVEWAY ON THE WEST EXISTING, I GUESS DRIVEWAY ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. DO I HAVE A SECOND? DID WE SKIP THE DISCUSSION PORTION? THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DOING THE DISCUSSION PART WHEN THE QUESTIONS AND THINGS DO WE HAVE, WE NEED A SECOND DISCUSSION. YEAH, WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO HAVE A SECOND FIRST. OKAY, GO AHEAD. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? DO YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION? WE HAVE A, A SECOND SECOND. YOU GO AHEAD AND YOU HAVE A DISCUSSION. UH, YEAH, I JUST, UM, I I GUESS MAYBE AT THE PHOTOS IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S REALLY NOT A WAY TO PUT THE GATE AT THE, THE CORNER RIGHT THERE WITHOUT A LOT OF TROUBLE OR LIKE KIND OF BLOCKING ACCESS TO THOSE KEY FEATURES. UM, AND IN LOOKING AT THE OTHER SUBMITTED PHOTOS, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE A LOT THAT COME UP TO THE DRIVEWAY AND I THINK FUNCTIONALLY IN A HOME THAT HAS TWO, UH, SEPARATE HOMES ON THE SAME LOT, UM, RIGHT. AM I RIGHT THAT THIS COMES UP TO THE YES, UH, SIDEWALK IN A, IN A, ON A LOT THAT HAS FUNCTIONALLY TWO HOMES AND WAS BUILT THAT WAY OR THAT'S HOW IT IS? UH, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD CREATE A LOT OF PROBLEMS IF THERE HAS TO BE A, A SWINGING GATE AT THE FACADE OF THE HOUSE. AND I DO THINK IT WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE RESTRICT USABILITY. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. HOWEVER, WE ARE CALLED TO UPHOLD THE REGULATIONS THAT THE CITY ACTUALLY HOLDS THAT HAS BEEN PLACED NOT ONLY INITIALLY ESTABLISHED IN 2012, BUT ALSO UPDATED IN 2022. 'CAUSE ONCE WE START DEVIATING FROM THOSE, THE HISTORICAL GUIDELINES THAT WERE ACTUALLY EDITED AND UPGRADED TO WHAT'S CURRENT AND WHAT'S IN PLACE, INCLUDING THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE LANDSCAPING THAT CAN BE COMPLIED AND MADE ADJUSTMENTS TO THOSE. AND I UNDERSTAND THE FUNCTIONALITY, BUT THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE AS A HISTORICAL SOCIETY, THAT ONCE WE START DEVIATING FROM WHAT THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAS ESTABLISHED AND HAS TO MAINTAIN AND COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT WE'VE BEEN DICTATED TO BE ABLE TO DO FROM THE CITY COUNCIL, AT WHAT POINT DO WE NOT UPHOLD WHAT WE'VE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO DO? FUNCTIONALITY? I UNDERSTAND. AND THERE ARE ABLE TO BE AMENDMENTS AND DEVIATIONS MADE TO IT. BUT THE ALSO THI OTHER THINGS WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IS THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO TAKE CONSIDERATION WHAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE. THINGS WERE AMENDED BACK IN 2012 AND 2022 AND THINGS THAT WERE NOT INITIALLY THERE AND WERE GRANDFATHERED IN, HAVE TO BE RECONSIDERED, BUT WHEN WE MAKE EDITS IN ORDER TO COMPLIANCE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY CALLED TO UPHOLD. SO I, YOU KNOW, THAT WE ARE ALLOWED TO ALLOW VARIANCES WHEN THEY'RE WELL SUPPORTED. AND I THINK THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE. LIKE, IT'S NOT SOMEONE COMING IN AND SAYING, WELL MY ONLY SUPPORT OF PUTTING THIS FENCE BACK HERE BEHIND THE FACADE IS AESTHETIC OR, YOU KNOW, UP TO THE DRIVEWAY, UP TO THE SIDEWALK, IS THAT I WANT TO CONTROL ALL THE SPACE I OWN AND I JUST WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OR IT'S BETTER LOOKING OR ANYTHING ELSE. IT'S A, IT'S A REAL FUNCTIONAL USE, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING WAS BUILT. AND SO THERE, I I DO THINK THAT VARIANCES THAT THIS IS WHAT THIS BODY IS, IS AVAILABLE FOR AND I THINK THIS IS A GOOD SUPPORT OF FUNCTIONALITY. AND IN YOUR HOME. [00:30:02] GO AHEAD MA'AM. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO, UM, SAY THAT THIS KIND OF HOME ARRANGEMENT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT YOU HAVE, UM, A DETACHED LIKE CASITA OR MOTHER-IN-LAW'S QUARTERS OR ACCESSORY DWELLING OR WHATEVER YOU WANNA CALL IT IN THE BACK. UH, THIS IS, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE AERIAL VIEW, YOU'LL SEE OTHER EXAMPLES OF THAT, UM, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD HERE. SO I WOULD JUST SAY THAT IT'S NOT A UNIQUE SITUATION THAT IT DOES COME BACK TO, UM, FUNCTIONALITY ON THE SITE. AND MUCH AS I CAN SYMPATHIZE WITH THAT IDEA THAT YOU WANT IT TO WORK BETTER FOR EVERYBODY WHO'S OCCUPYING THE PROPERTY, UM, THIS ARRANGEMENT WORKS JUST FINE BECAUSE SOMEBODY GOES ALONG THE DRIVEWAY, PARKS IN THE BACK AND THEN GOES TO THAT DETACHED DWELLING. UM, AND THAT IS TRADITIONALLY KIND OF HOW THIS WORKS, RIGHT? THAT ACTUALLY TWO CARS COULD PACK, POTENTIALLY PARK BACK THERE OR SOMEBODY PARKS ON THE STREET. UM, I THINK THAT THERE COULD BE A REASONABLE SOLUTION WITH A SWINGING GATE MAYBE THAT HAS ITS SUPPORT OR HINGE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY. SO IT DOESN'T REALLY AFFECT, UH, UTILITY, UH, METERS AS MUCH. UM, SO I JUST DON'T REALLY SEE THIS AS A SITUATION WHERE THERE SHOULD BE A VARIANCE. I, WELL, GO AHEAD. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT IT UP THAT IT'S NOT UNIQUE. 'CAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, IT'S NOT. UM, AND MY ARGUMENT WOULD BE THAT MOST IF NOT ALL OF THE HOUSES THAT DO HAVE THAT SECOND LIVING SPACE DO HAVE THE FENCE AND GATE UP TO THE SIDEWALK. SO IT WOULDN'T BE ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S ALREADY THERE. SO. WELL, BUT THE DIFFERENCE, WELL MY POINT IS WHAT, WHAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT HERE TO CAUSE PROBLEMS, BUT IF THE PURPOSE OF IT IS TO MATCH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEN THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK TOWARDS IN THAT REGARD. SO FOR US TO DO IT THAT WAY, WE WOULD BE THEN THE UNIQUE ONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. ALRIGHT. AND I WOULD RESPOND TO THAT, THAT IT WOULD APPEAR THAT GIVEN SOME OF THE RESEARCH, AT LEAST OF THE EXAMPLES THAT WERE POINTED OUT HERE, THAT THOSE WERE ACTUALLY PUT IN PLACE PRIOR TO THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION, UH, WHICH MEANS THAT WHEN A NEIGHBORHOOD BECOMES HISTORIC, IT'S LOOKED AT FOR CHARACTERISTICS OF THAT HISTORIC TIME PERIOD. AND THESE GATES WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE TO SAY BECAUSE IT WAS PUT IN SOMETIME PRIOR TO 2012 DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S NOW HISTORIC. SO I'M JUST KIND OF REFERENCING BACK TO THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE ORIGINAL NEIGHBORHOOD AND HOW IT DOESN'T COMPLY WITH THOSE. I MEAN, I, YOU MAKE A GOOD ARGUMENT AND UNFORTUNATELY THEN, UH, REGULATIONS HAVE CHANGED IN TERMS OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS YOU LIVE IN. AND I WILL ALSO SAY, AND THIS IS KIND OF AN ASIDE, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT PUTTING IN A RIBBON DRIVEWAY ON THE OTHER SIDE BECAUSE THAT IS ACTUALLY HISTOR, UH, CHARACTERISTIC OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. SO IN THAT REGARD, UM, I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT THERE, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE GATE, I JUST HAVE HAVE TO SAY, I MEAN, TRADITIONALLY THERE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN, UH, NECESSARILY A GATE OR, OR A FENCE IN THE FRONT YARD. UM, WELL, JUST TO ARGUE, AS ADRIAN SAID, IN THE PAST, COMMITTEES HAVE APPROVED FENCES TO THE DRIVEWAY. SO, UM, AS MS. DAVIS SAID, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S, IT'S Y'ALL'S DECISIONS. THE GUIDELINES ARE THERE TO FOLLOW, BUT EXCEPTIONS CAN BE MADE. UM, I HAVE TO GO STRAIGHT TO WORK AFTER THIS, BUT I MEAN, I DO FOOD CODE AND THERE'S ALWAYS AN EXCEPTION FOR A RULE THAT EXISTS AND COMPROMISE IS ALWAYS AVAILABLE. AND THAT'S REALLY THE REASON WE'RE HERE. UM, IF WE CAN'T DO THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY, THEN WE UNDERSTAND, UM, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO OBTAIN A COMPROMISE, UM, BETWEEN WHAT WE REQUESTED AND WHAT IS ALLOWED AND WHAT HAS BEEN ALSO APPROVED IN THE PAST THAT DEVIATES FROM ORDINANCE. UM, AND, UH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAY NOT BE HISTORIC IN THE SENSE, BUT UM, AS MY HUSBAND STATED, THERE ARE A LOT OF PROPERTIES THAT DO HAVE IT AND WE WOULD BE THE UNIQUE ONES. UM, AND MOST OF THE HOUSES THAT HAVE FENCES TO THE, THAT DON'T THAT DO FOLLOW YOUR GUIDELINES ARE TEMPORARY RENTALS. THEY'RE NOT HOMES FOR PEOPLE, THEY'RE JUST HOUSES. UM, SORRY. UM, AND SO TAKE A MOMENT. SORRY, PUBLIC SPEAKING STRESS. YEAH, WE'VE BEEN HERE. IT'S OKAY. IT'S OKAY. [00:35:01] SO BEING UNIQUE, LET'S EMPHASIZE THE UNIQUE WHICH FALLS BACK THE HISTORIC. YEAH. AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE EMPHASIZE IT. I THOROUGHLY SUPPORT THE UNIQUENESS OF IT. CAN YOU DO ME A FAVOR, ADRIAN AND PULL, I KNOW I WAS IN REVIEWING, THERE'S ONE IN THERE WITH THE WOOD FENCING. UM, YES, I CAN PULL IT UP ON, UH, GOOGLE STREET VIEW, BUT I'M NOT SURE, UM, MADAM CHAIR IF IT'S A PART OF THE CASE FILE. BUT, BUT THERE IS, THERE'S A COUPLE IN THERE THAT I WAS ACTUALLY TAKING A LOOK IN. IN THE CASE FILE OR NO, NOT IN THE CASE FILE. OH, AS I WAS REVIEWING. GOT IT. BECAUSE LET ME, LET ME PULL IT UP ON STREET VIEW THEN. THAT, THAT WOULD BE QUICK BECAUSE HERE'S THE CONCERN IN VIEWING THE UNIQUENESS GOES BACK THE HISTORICAL GUIDELINES AND YES, WE'RE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THAT. BUT THE CONCERN WITH THIS IS THAT WHEN WE START DEVIATING TOO MUCH FROM IT, THAT WAS THE REASON WHY WE SET UP THE GUIDELINES. I BELIEVE THAT'S ONE OF THEM. BUT THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT HAS THE WESTERN STYLE. YES, I CAN, I CAN PULL IT UP HERE. YES. OKAY. SO THIS IS THEIR HOUSE RIGHT HERE? ABSOLUTELY. AND THEN, UM, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM. SO THERE'S A HOUSE RIGHT HERE THAT, AGAIN, IT'S ALSO A, A STEEL OR A MESH PANEL, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH, WITH WOODEN POSTS, RIGHT? ALL WOOD CONSTRUCTION. SO THIS OF COURSE IS VERY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT WE CAN APPROVE. UM, YOU KNOW, AS YOU SEE, OF COURSE THIS ONE DOES NOT HAVE A DRIVEWAY GATE, YOU KNOW, AND, AND WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE ON THE, ON THE FENCE PORTIONS, YOU KNOW, UM, AGAIN, GOING ALL THE WAY TO THE SIDEWALK, IT'S JUST THE GATE FOR ANY, UM, NEW, ANY NEW GATE TO BE INSTALLED WHEN THERE'S AN EXISTING GATE IN PLACE. YOU KNOW, AS YOU ALL ARE AWARE, OF COURSE, OVER THE DECADES, CHAIN LINK FENCES WERE VERY COMMON THROUGHOUT THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE SIXTIES, SEVENTIES OR WHATEVER. SO WHEN THERE'S AN EXISTING GATE THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY IN PLACE, WE CAN, WE CAN APPROVE THE REPLACEMENT OF THAT GATE WITH A NEW DESIGN, RIGHT? SO IF THEY WANTED TO CHANGE IT TO A ROD IRON OR, UM, ANY KIND OF A STEEL FENCE IF OR GATE, IF THERE'S ONE THERE, THEN WE CAN APPROVE IT. BUT WHEN THERE'S NOT ONE THERE, THAT'S WHEN OF COURSE WE LOOK AT, UM, OUR GUIDELINES AND OUR FENCE POLICY GUIDES. AND SO, AND, AND I ACTUALLY HAVE IT RIGHT HERE. SO THIS IS OUR, UH, FENCE POLICY GUIDE FOR HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND SO, UM, THIS ONE, AGAIN, IT KIND OF BASICALLY GUIDES OUR, UH, REVIEW PROCESS AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE RECOMMEND, IT GUIDES OUR RECOMMENDATIONS. AND AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE DRAWING RIGHT HERE, UH, IN THE SITE PLAN, UM, YOU, YOU'LL SEE HERE FOR THE VEHICLE GATES, THEY SHOULD BE SET BEHIND THE FRONT FACADE PLANE OF THE HOUSE AND NOT SPAN ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE DRIVEWAY. SO THIS IS WHAT GUIDES OUR RECOMMENDATION. UH, NOT SO MUCH THOSE PREEXISTING, UH, GATES AND FENCES THAT AGAIN IN, UM, IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS LIKE, UH, LAVACCA FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT? THIS IS A GOOD ONE TO USE, UH, THEIR, THEIR HISTORIC DISTRICT WHERE YES, YOU DO SEE FENCES THAT, UM, COME RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE BECAUSE OVER THE YEARS, UM, THOSE FENCES WERE INSTALLED AND OUR REVIEW PROCESS AS WE HAVE IT TODAY, UM, DICTATES THAT THIS SPEED, THE LOCATION AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT GUIDES OUR REVIEW. UM, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, THAT ONE IMAGE THAT IS SHOWN, THEY DID HAVE A DRIVE THAT, THAT ONE OF MEMORY SERVES CORRECTLY. THEY DID HAVE A DRIVEWAY GATE, BUT BECAUSE IT IS THE WOODEN POST, IT FELL AND BECAUSE IT WAS A SHORT TERM RENTAL, I BELIEVE THEY JUST DID AWAY WITH IT. 'CAUSE OF THE FUNCTIONALITY OF IT, THE DOOR WASN'T, IT WAS HEAVY AND SO THEY COULDN'T REALLY USE IT. UM, AND BECAUSE OF THE SHORT RENTAL STATUS, IT COULD BE WRONG. BUT I REMEMBER A DOOR HANGING ON ONE OF THEM, I THINK IT'S THE BACK ONE, BUT THAT WAS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, UM, HOME. AND THE ONE NEXT TO US THAT ALSO ABIDES BY THE GUIDELINES, ALSO A SHORT RENTAL HOME, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY HAD AN ISSUE WITH THEM COMING ONTO OUR PROPERTY AND TAKING OUR TRASH CANS FOR THEIR USE. UM, WHICH JUST ADDS TO THE FRUSTRATION OF NOT BEING ABLE TO SECURE OUR HOME IN THAT ASPECT. UM, BUT WE WOULD BE FINE NOT ENCLOSING THE LEFT SIDE, AS I SAID, WHERE THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY IS WHERE WE REQUESTED. AND AGAIN, WE ONLY REQUESTED THAT BECAUSE OF HOW THE PROPERTY HAD ALREADY BEEN USED PRIOR TO US OBTAINING IT. UM, AND WE JUST, ONE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE FUNCTIONALITY AND LIKE STILL KEEP AESTHETIC, UM, [00:40:01] BUT ALSO SINCE WE HAVE ALSO HAD ISSUES WITH THE NEIGHBORING RENTAL PROPERTIES, UM, JUST A LITTLE MORE SECURENESS TOO. AND THEN THE ISSUE OF THE GAS METERS BEING RIGHT AT THE CORNER OF THE HOUSE. UM, JUST TO REITERATE THAT. UM, YEAH, UM, I JUST WANT TO JUST TO DOUBLE DOWN ON THE SECURITY THING JUST 'CAUSE 'CAUSE THE RENTALS, THEY'RE STRANGERS EVERY DAY LIVING NEXT TO US. YOU NEVER KNOW. SO WE CAN, I DON'T HAVE TO FILL YOU IN ON THAT REGARD, BUT WE HAVE HAD, THERE IS, IT IS DOWNTOWN, RIGHT? A LOT OF HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS. UM, AND WE'VE HAD ONE COME AND SLEEP ON OUR PORCH. SO AGAIN, IT'S REALLY JUST, WE REALLY WANT TO GET THE, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT A HOME AND NOT A HOUSE, RIGHT? AND NOT SHORT TERM LIVING AS MOST OF THE ONES THAT ABIDE BY THE RULES AS I SPOKE WITH ADRIAN, YOU KNOW, THEY FOLLOW THE PATH OF LEASE RESISTANCE. SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE HERE FOR A PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE FLIPPING OR GOING TO USE FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES TO BEGIN WITH. UM, AND MOST OF THE HOMES THAT DO HAVE THE FENCES HAVE BEEN HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN IN FAMILIES FOR GENERATIONS, UM, OR HAVE BEEN SOLD FROM ONE FAMILY TO THE OTHER. AND WE JUST HOPE THAT WE CAN COMPROMISE TO HELP THIS HOUSE COME HOME. SO, 'CAUSE HERE'S, HERE'S THE ONE, ONE THING THAT WE WANT, WE MOST OF US DO NOT WANT YOU TO DO, IS TO GO BACK AND START FROM THE BEGINNING, OKAY? BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONE THING WE DO WANNA TRY TO AVOID. AND THE COMPROMISE IS THERE'S ONLY SO MANY THINGS THAT WE CAN DO. 'CAUSE WE'RE GOVERNED BY CERTAIN GUIDELINES AND WE CAN MAKE AMENDMENTS. HOWEVER, THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS, IF YOU'RE TAKING A LOOK AT EVEN SOME OF THE RIBBON PARKING WHEN THEY MAKE ADJUSTMENTS EVEN IN THE SIDEWALK AS WELL AS YOU, YOU KNOW, AS I DO, SOMETIMES THEY COME IN AND ADD ADDITIONAL, YOU KNOW, DRIVEWAY PATHWAYS. THEY WEREN'T ORIGINALLY THERE. OKAY? AND I CAN TOTALLY HAND DOWN LIKE ACCEPT THAT ONE AS A NO, NOT A PROBLEM. LET ME FINISH LIVE . THE OTHER THING TOO IS THE FACT THAT YOU'RE WILLING TO MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT IN ORDER FOR IT NOT TO FAIL TO GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING. WE CAN GO BACK AND MAKE AN AMENDMENT SO THAT WE CAN READDRESS BECAUSE SAFETY IS AN ISSUE FOR YOU. COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, BUT WE'RE ALSO REQUIRED IN GOVERNED TO MAKE THOSE SAFETY ISSUES CONCERN FOR YOU. BUT IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, THE CONCERN FOR YOU IS THE FENCING. BUT IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AND DO IT IN COMPARISON WITH YOUR NEIGHBOR THAT HAS THE WR IRON GATE, YOU HAVE THE EXTENSIVE DRIVEWAY THAT THEY DO NOT. SO THAT'S THE OTHER THING WE HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION TOO. LET ME FINISH. SO VERSUS THIS FAILING, WE CAN LET THIS MOTION FAIL. YOU GO BACK AND DO ADDITIONAL REVIEWS WITH THE DEPARTMENT TO WHERE, 'CAUSE I'M LOOKING AT THE FENCE THAT'S UP AGAINST THE, THE HOUSE THAT'S HIGHER VERSUS A FOUR FOOT FENCE BECAUSE WE'RE DRESSING SAFETY, SAFETY TO WHERE YOU STILL MAINTAIN THE RIBBON PARKING, MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE LANDSCAPING BECAUSE WE TALKED ABOUT THE 50%, ARE YOU AWARE ABOUT THE 50% PEBBLE STONING VERSUS GREEN? UM, WE THAT'S TALKED ABOUT? YES. OKAY, SO THOSE PERCENTAGES, RIGHT? SO WE TALK ABOUT THAT YOUR FENCING, IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE FENCING VERSUS THE, THE GATE COMING, OUTBOARD GOING INWARD TO PREVENT THE DAMAGE TO THE METERS. THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'RE ASKING YOU TO, TO WHERE WE'RE NOT BAILING YOUR REQUEST AND NOT COMPLYING WITH WHAT YOU'RE NEEDING, BUT ALSO COMPLYING WITH WHAT WE ARE GOVERNED TO DO. SO VERSUS YOU NOT HAVING SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T WANT, GO BACK AND MAKE AN AMENDMENT WITH THE CITY TO BE ABLE TO WORK TOWARDS WHAT MAKES YOU ONE SAFE. TWO, COMPLIANCE WITH THE CITY AND NOT HAVING TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AGAIN. OKAY? DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? BECAUSE JUST LIKE YOUR COMPLIANCE WITH WHERE YOU WORK, THERE'S ALSO COMPLIANCE WITH THIS DEPARTMENT THAT HAS TO MEET. AND THE FOUR FOOT WOOD FENCE THAT YOU'RE WANTING FOR AESTHETICS VERSUS THE SAFETY, WHICH ONE HAS THE PRIORITY? SO THE FOUR FOOT FENCE IS, WE HAD READ THE CODE, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE CODE IS DIFFERENT AND HISTORIC. UM, AND SO IDEALLY A SIX FOOT FENCE WOULD BE, BUT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE CONFINE. SO WE REQUESTED ONLY FOUR FOOT, BUT TAKE A LOOK. IF YOU'RE TAKING A LOOK AT SOME OF THESE HOUSES, THAT'S IF IT'S IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, YES. THAT'S NOT, IF IT'S FLUSHED TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, REMEMBER YOU HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHEREVER IT IS AND YOU HAVE TO GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE AND, AND YOU'RE EMPHASIZING SAFETY. SO, UM, THE OTHER REQUEST THAT WAS APPROVED WAS A FENCE ALONG THE HOUSE ON THE WESTERN, UH, EASTERN SIDE, THE LEFT SIDE. [00:45:01] THAT ONE IS TO BE A SIX FOOT FENCE. AND SO WE'VE PLANNED FOR A SEPARATE AREA FOR OUR PET TO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THAT FOREFOOT UNLESS WE'RE ACCOMPANYING THEM. UM, SO WE HAVE TAKEN THAT SAFETY INTO CONSIDERATION AND I MEAN, OUR CHILD IS TOO, SHE'S NOT GONNA CLIMB OVER A FOUR FOOT FENCE, RIGHT? SO IT'S MORE JUST LIKE A BARRIER BETWEEN OUR HOME AND THE EXTERIOR, ONE FOR OUR CHILD, TWO FOR OUR DOG WHEN WE'RE WITH IT IN THE FOUR FOOT FENCE AREA. SO WE HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT. UM, AND THEN, UM, AS YOU, SO IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE INCLINED TO APPROVE THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY OR NOT? I I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT'S WHY I'M, I'M SEEKING CLARIFICATION. UH, MADAM CHAIR. NO, I I WAS JUST GONNA, UM, KIND OF, UM, UH, PIGGYBACK ON THE . IT IS GETTING LENGTHY, SO LET'S JUST GET TO IT BECAUSE THERE'S A, MY, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, NO PORTION OF THE REAR FENCING, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY ANYTHING BEHIND THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE IS PART OF THIS REQUEST. THE APPLICANT HAS RECEIVED ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL FOR, UM, AGAIN, THAT'S REAR FENCING. WE CAN APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVELY SIX FEET, ALL WOOD PRIVACY FENCING. SO THAT'S BEEN ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED AND IT'S NOT PART OF THE REQUEST, IT'S JUST THE, THE PORTIONS HERE RELATING TO THE FRONT, UM, THE, THE FRONT FENCE, THE FRONT GATES AND THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. AND IS THAT ENOUGH CLARIFICATION? WHAT, WHAT HE'S SAYING, WHAT HE'S STATING? OH, I WAS JUST MENTIONING THE SIX FOOT FENCE, NO, SIX FOOT FENCE, NO, YEAH, NO, NO, NOTHING LIKE THAT. AND WE ADJUSTED THAT IN OUR REQUEST OKAY. TO MATCH THE, THE, THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE SET FORTH. BUT DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, WHAT THEY'VE EX WHAT THEY'VE RECOMMENDED IS NOT, IT'S THE LITTLE BLOCK OFF AREA. SO LET'S GET CLARIFICATION. SO THAT WAY THE MOTION GO AHEAD. THE APPLICANT. OKAY, SO LET'S GO BACK AND CLARIFY ON THE, ON, ON THE MOTION ON WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA BE VOTE, YOU KNOW, PASSING. CAN I JUST REAL QUICK, UM, AS THE DISCUSSION, UH, THE FENCE WAS APPROVED FOR THE SPACE THAT HE, SINCE WE'VE DISCUSSED AND IT DOESN'T SEEM AS WE ARE, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GETTING CLARIFICATION RIGHT NOW. OKAY. SO WE ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE IF ALLOWED BY Y'ALL TO JUST DO THE PEDESTRIAN GATE, WHICH IS ALREADY ALLOWED AND NOT ENCLOSE THE SECOND DRIVEWAY OR PUT IN THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. AND IT WOULD BE TO BASICALLY SHIFT THE AREA OF APPROVAL. SO, UH, FURTHER DOWN OR SORRY, LIKE THAT. YOU'RE GOOD? YEAH. YEAH. SO IT WOULD BE THE PEDESTRIAN WITH A GATE TO THE SIDEWALK THAT SLIDES IT WOULD BE WHAT WE WOULD REQUEST TO COMPROMISE, WHICH MS. DAVIS HAS ALREADY, UH, AGREED WITH OR SHE HAD MENTIONED. UM, IF WE COULD COMPROMISE TO THAT, LIKE WE FEEL THAT FUNCTIONALLY THAT WOULD BE GREAT FOR US AND WE CAN SECURE THAT CORNER OF THE PROPERTY AND OUR FRONT DOOR WOULD BE ENCLOSED, OUR DRIVEWAY WOULD BE ENCLOSED. WE WOULDN'T HAVE THE TWO THAT WE WANT NOR THE RIBBON DRIVEWAY. AND SO WE WOULD CONCEDE TO, YOU KNOW, MADAM CHAIR I UNDER, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. SO, AND THEN I'LL SIT DOWN AND Y'ALL CAN DISCUSS WHAT, OKAY, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET CLARIFICATION. THANK YOU. OKAY, MA'AM, GO AHEAD. YES, I WAS JUST HOPING TO DISCUSS THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE FLOOR, RIGHT? SO LET'S GO BACK, GET CLARIFICATION ON THE MOTION BECAUSE THE, WHAT WAS ACTUALLY SUBMITTED ON THE PERMIT WAS WHAT WAS THE MOTION AND WHAT THE STAFF ACTUALLY WAS ABLE TO CLARIFY AND WAS ACTUALLY ABLE TO APPROVE WHAT'S IN PLACE. UH, THE MOTION WAS TO APPROVE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS PERIOD FOR ONE AND TWO. FOR ONE AND TWO. OKAY. AND THERE IS A SECOND. WERE THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS? UH, MADAM CHAIR, GO AHEAD. JUST MAKE COMMENT ON, ON AS FAR AS THE GATE THAT'S ALIGNED TO THE, UM, TO THE HOUSE, UH, THERE IS, UH, I BELIEVE, UH, A GAS METER LOCATED THERE. AND YOU'RE ADDRESSING THIS TO ADRIAN, CORRECT? UH, OKAY, GO AHEAD. JUST IN DISCUSSION. GO AHEAD. AND, AND MY CONCERN IS THE SAFETY OF DIGGING, UH, UH, WHENEVER THE, UM, THE, THE GATE GOES IN, IF THERE WERE GONNA HAVE A GATE. THAT'S MY CONCERN AND I, I AGREE WITH THAT. UH, MY WHOLE THING IS THE METER AT THE CORNER SEEMS LIKE IT'S GONNA MAKE IT DIFFICULT IF IT'S AT ALL POSSIBLE TO DO IT. AND IF THEY CAN BUILD THE FOUR FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY OPEN AND LEAVE THE DRIVEWAY OPEN, THEN THE ONLY THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS JUST THAT GATE [00:50:01] CLOSING IT. SO A FENCE WOULD BE OKAY THERE, THEY COULD SHUT OFF THEIR OWN DRIVEWAY, BUT THEY CAN'T HAVE A GATE. BUT I, I DO WONDER IF FUNCTIONALLY THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO BUILD THAT CLOSE TO A GAS METER. BUT IF YOU LOOK, IF YOU NOTICE THE REGULATIONS THAT ACTUALLY ADRIAN BROUGHT UP THE GATE DOESN'T, DOES NOT OPEN OUTWARDS. THE GATE IS TO BE OPEN INWARDS SO THAT WAY IT PREVENTS FROM THE GAS METER EVEN BEING AFFECTED BECAUSE PRIOR TO EVEN THE GATE BEING INSTALLED, UM, THE GAS, THE LINES HAVE TO BE IDENTIFIED AND INSPECTION HAS TO BE DONE AND MARKED PRIOR TO EVEN ANY DIGGING. THAT'S ACTUALLY, THAT'S IN, IN, IN COMPLIANCE WITH ANYTHING ELECTRICAL WATER OR GAS LINES BEFORE ANY DIGGING IS EVEN DONE. IS THAT CORRECT, ADRIAN? YES. AND AND I WAS SIMPLY GONNA ADD TO THAT, YOU KNOW, THE GUIDELINES STIPULATE THAT IT SHOULD BE BEHIND THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE, SO IT SHOULD BE SET BACK FAR ENOUGH TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE METERS ARE NOT AFFECTED. UM, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULDN'T, THE FENCE WOULD NOT BE APPROVED TO BE RIGHT AT THE CORNER WHERE THE METERS ARE. SO, YOU KNOW, FOR US AND FOR OUR GUIDELINES, IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THEM, BUT THE FENCE LINE WOULD STILL HAVE TO GO BETWEEN THAT CONCRETE PAD IN THE HOUSE, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE A POST ON THE HOUSE SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY FOR THE GATE TO ATTACH TO. SO WE'RE LOOKING, I'M LOOKING AT THAT TINY SPACE BETWEEN THE, THE HOUSE AND THE CONCRETE PAD, AND I CAN SEE LIKE THE THINGS ON THE FRONT, BUT WHERE THEY GO AFTER THAT, I DON'T KNOW. AND SO THAT WHOLE THING SEEMS A LOT TO DIG UP. ARE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT RIGHT HERE, THE MEETING POINT OF THE DRIVEWAY AND THE HOUSE? SO FOR US, A AGAIN, THE POSTS WOULD BE SITUATED, UH, AS CLOSE TO THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE GATE GOES A LITTLE BIT BEHIND THE ME METERS AND, AND THE LOCATION OF THE METERS I'LL SIMPLY SAY IS, IS PRETTY COMMON. SO YOU KNOW, IT, IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSIONS, ANY OTHER CONCERNS? AND AT THIS TIME I'LL TAKE A, GO AHEAD, I'LL GO AHEAD AND ENTERTAIN A ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS NAY GARCIA AYE. ARD AYE. SPILLER AYE. FULLERTON AYE. P*****K, NAY AND SEPULVEDA? AYE. MOTION CARRIES. MA'AM, SIR, AT THIS TIME I'LL NEED TO GO BACK AND WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT SO THAT WAY YOU GET YOUR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS AND MAKE SURE THAT WE GET IN COM AS CLOSE AS COMPLIANCE AS POSSIBLE. PLEASE. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. NEXT ITEM PLEASE. THIS IS CTAP CASE, 2026 DASH 1 32 FOR 5 22 EAST EVERGREEN. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO INSTALL AN 18, UH, FEET WIDE CONCRETE DRIVEWAY AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE LOT. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL TO INSTALL A 10 FOOT WIDE CONCRETE DRIVE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE LOT WITH AN APPROACH MEASURING NO WIDER THAN 12 FEET AND ENCOURAGES THE APPLICANT TO CONSIDER ALLEY ACCESS FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING NEEDS. UH, THERE IS COMMISSIONERS ACTUALLY ONE LETTER FOR THIS, UH, REQUEST. SO IT SHOULD BE, UH, IN YOUR FOLDER AVAILABLE TO YOU. AND THE APPLICANT IS HERE IN PERSON. IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME UP AND INTRODUCE YOURSELVES, YOU'LL HAVE 12 MINUTES TO PRESENT YOUR REQUEST. I CAN GO THROUGH. OKAY, GOT IT. SWEET. THANK YOU. HELLO, MY NAME IS ARIAN. UH, I'M HERE WITH UH, UH, MY MANAGER AND FRIEND CARLOS AND MY MOTHER. UM, WE PURCHASED THIS HOUSE IN, UH, LATE MAY, AND WE ARE REQUESTING TO, UH, BEFORE WE PUT DOWN THE DRIVEWAY TO EXPAND THE DRIVER FROM THE CURRENT UNPAVED NINE FOOT DRIVEWAY TO A 18 FOOT DRIVEWAY. THE REASON WE'RE ASKING FOR THIS REQUEST IS BECAUSE THE FRONTAGE OF OUR HOUSE IS BLOCKED OFF FOR ANY CITY PARKING, UM, OR ANY RESIDENTIAL PARKING DUE TO THE METHODIST HOSPITAL DOWN THE ROAD. UH, SO EVERY PARKING ON THAT SIDE OF THE ROAD, WHICH IS OUR FRONT, FRONT [00:55:01] CURB, UH, IS NOT ALLOWED. UM, WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY THREE CARS, THREE PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THIS HOUSE. UM, AND THE CURRENT DRIVEWAY DOES NOT FIT MORE THAN ONE CAR. THE PROBLEM IS, EVEN WITH ONE CAR, GIVEN WHERE IT IS, UH, FUNCTIONALLY, IT'S HARD TO ACTUALLY ACCESS OUR CARS UNLESS WE PARK IN A VERY CERTAIN WAY. THIS IS DUE TO THE, THE WIDTH OF THE, UH, DRIVEWAY BEING ONLY NINE FEET. UM, AND THEN THE HOUSE BEING SITUATED, IF YOU LOOK AT AN AERIAL VIEW AT A TILT, UM, SO IT DOES, UH, AN A CLOCKWISE FASHION HAS A, HAS A, UH, FOUNDATION THAT'S NOT PARALLEL. AND SO THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT WE, IF WE TRY TO ACTUALLY DRIVE OUR CAR THROUGH THE SIDE AND GO TO THE BACKYARD, OUR CAR DOES JUST DOES NOT FIT. I DO NOT DRIVE A BIG CAR. I DRIVE A PRETTY SMALL CAR. IT'S A MAZDA HATCHBACK AND I ST I CANNOT FIT THROUGH THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE. UM, THE LASTLY, WE ARE TRYING TO ESSENTIALLY PRESERVE WHAT WE SEE ON OUR, ON OUR SIDE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE ARE TWO HOUSES THAT I'VE SEEN IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE THIS SIMILAR TILT TO THEIR HOUSE. ONE IS OURS AND OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, THEY DO HAVE A 20 FEET WIDE DRIVEWAY. I THINK WE HAVE A PICTURE OF THEIR DRIVEWAY AS WELL. UM, AND WE ARE REQUESTING THAT WE ARE THERE, THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE ON THE BOTTOM, UM, THAT WE ARE EFFECTIVELY MIMICKING WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. UM, THE OTHER ISSUES ARE THAT THE, THERE IS A TALKS OF AN ALLEYWAY IN THE BACK. I DO HAVE PICTURES AS WELL AS WELL. UM, THAT ALLEYWAY DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ALLEYWAY. IT SEEMS TO BE A DRIVEWAY. IF WE LOOK AT IT FROM THE ENTRANCE TO IT, IT CURVES INTO THE HOUSE. UH, THE, THE HOUSE BEHIND OUR HOUSE, IT CURVES INTO THEIR GARAGE. UM, AND IF WE WERE TO ACTUALLY USE THAT AS AN ALLEYWAY, THE ONLY WAY WE WERE ABLE TO ACCESS OUR BACKYARD IS TO DRIVE INTO THEIR GARAGE AND BACK END BECAUSE THEIR HOUSE IS ALSO AT A, UM, ANGLE AS WELL. UM, SO FUNCTIONALLY THIS DRIVEWAY CURRENTLY IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT, UM, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE MULTIPLE MORE THAN ONE CAR. UM, AND THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANY REASONABLE OPTIONS FOR US TO, UM, UTILIZE WHAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY. MAINLY, UH, WE CANNOT PARK IN FRONT OF OUR HOUSE. WE CAN'T ACCESS THE BACKSIDE, UM, AND THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE AS WELL. GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU. OKAY. AT THIS TIME I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE FLOOR FOR QUESTIONS TO MY COLLEAGUES TO THE LEFT. PLEASE GO AHEAD, SIR. ARE THERE ANY PHOTOS OF THE BACK ALLEY THAT WE CAN, UH, SEE WHAT HE WAS TALKING? SO, UM, THERE, THERE ARE A FEW, UH, FILES IN THE LATE FOLDER. SO IF YOU CAN ACCESS THE LATE FOLDER AND I'M, I'M GONNA TRY, I'M HAVING SOME TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES. I COULDN'T 'EM TO OPEN, SO I I'M HAVING THE SAME ISSUE, SO I APOLOGIZE. SO I'M GONNA, UM, LET ME JUST TRY A DIFFERENT PROGRAM AND IF NOT, I'LL AT LEAST SHARE THE, UM, SO LET ME SEE IF I CAN OPEN THEM WITH A DIFFERENT APP. LET ME JUST SEE NOW. YEAH, I, I MIGHT HAVE TO, UM, UH, WE MIGHT HAVE TO VIEW 'EM LIKE THIS FOR THOSE THAT CAN'T OPEN THEM, LIKE, LIKE THIS COMPUTER AS WELL. SO, EXCUSE ME, COMMISSIONERS. UM, SO, UH, THESE ARE THE PHOTOS THAT, UM, THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED FOR THE REAR DRIVE. AND SO I, I WISH WE COULD OF COURSE, UM, I, I APOLOGIZE. I DON'T THINK I CAN MAKE 'EM A BIT BIGGER. AND SO WOULD IT HELP IF I EMAIL ANYTHING OR, UH, THAT TAKE TOO LONG? I THINK SO, YEAH. SO IF, IF THE APPLICANT HAS THEM ON HIS PHONE, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO PROJECT THEM ON THE SCREEN FOR YOU. UM, SO THAT MIGHT BE A, A SECONDARY OPTION. AND, AND SO, BUT YEAH, THE, THESE ARE THE PICTURES THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED, UM, FOR THE REAR. YEAH, I'M VERY INTERESTED IN, UH, SOMETHING TO SUPPORT WHAT HE WAS SAYING. UH, UH, COULD ALSO, I, IT'S PRETTY OLD. UM, I I I'M GONNA SEND THESE S RIGHT NOW. UM, WHO DO I SEND IT TO? NO, IF YOU CAN OPEN THEM LIKE ON YOUR PHONE. OH, I'LL DISPLAY THEM HERE. I SEE IT'S ON HERE. HERE [01:00:15] I HAVE A, YOU CAN JUST TURN UP A PICTURE. I HAVE, I WANNA TALK THROUGH THESE. SURE. BETTER VISION. UM, SO THIS IS THE ENTRANCE, UH, ON THE BACKSIDE. THE NEIGHBOR BEHIND US HAS A ESSENTIALLY TRAILER AND THEN BEHIND THE WALLS OF THEIR, UH, HOUSE IS I THINK TWO CARS. UM, OUR ENTRANCE IS ESSENTIALLY WHERE THEIR BLUE TRAILER IS. UM, I THINK IF THERE'S ANOTHER PICTURE IN THERE I HAVE THERE, UM, FROM A FRONT ANGLE, THIS PATH CURVES TOWARDS THEIR HOUSE. IT DOES NOT CONTINUE TOWARDS THE END OF THIS, UM, I GUESS ALLEY, BUT, UH, THE CUR THE PATH DOES CURVE TOWARDS THEIR BUILDING. UM, BECAUSE I, YEAH, NO, NO, YEAH, I, I PUT IT ALL, ALL TOGETHER. GOTCHA. MM-HMM . UM, THE, OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, UH, THEY ALREADY HAVE THEIR OWN, UM, UH, BACKYARD GARAGE AND DRIVEWAY FOR THEMSELVES. IT'S ALL FENCED OFF. UM, BUT FOR OURS WE WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE INTERFERING WITH THE BACKYARD, OUR BACK DOOR NEIGHBOR, UM, DRIVEWAY. AND THE ONLY WAY WE CAN ACCESS IT IS TO ESSENTIALLY, YEAH, THERE'S THE, SO THERE'S THEIR CAR AND THEN TO THE RIGHT OF IT WOULD BE THAT BLUE TRAILER, UM, FOR THE FIRST IMAGE AND THE PATH KIND OF CURVES INTO THEIR PROPERTY AND NOT STRAIGHT SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY USE IT. AND THEN, SO IF WE WERE TO USE THIS AS A BACK DOOR ENTRANCE, UM, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO WHERE THAT CAR IS AND THEN BACK IN, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY. 'CAUSE THE SPACING BETWEEN THE WALLS OF THEIR BUILDING AND FENCE, UM, IS, IT DOES NOT ALLOW FOR ANY SORT OF TURNS UNLESS WE HIT THE WALL. ADRIAN IS THIS NEIGHBORHOOD USED TO HAVE THOSE MIDDLE ALLEYS. YOU KNOW HOW OVER IN, UH, WOODLAWN AREA, IN A COUPLE OF THE AREAS IN BETWEEN THE HOUSES, THEY HAD THE, UM, MIDDLE DRIVES WHERE THE, THEY WOULD COME IN AND PICK UP THE GARBAGE THERE. AND I KNOW THERE'S A COUPLE OF OTHER AREAS IS, IS THIS ONE OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT FALL INTO THAT? BECAUSE IT, IT'S BEGINNING TO LOOK LIKE THAT MOST LIKELY. I, I CAN'T COMMENT SPECIFICALLY ON THIS ONE, MADAM CHAIR, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS, IT SEEMS PRETTY LIKELY THAT THIS WOULD'VE, THIS WOULD'VE BEEN AN ALLEY FOR SERVICES AND UTILITIES. SO I DON'T WANT TO SAY NECESSARILY THAT THAT'S THE CASE. OKAY, THAT'S FINE. SO LET'S, LET'S ADDRESS THIS ONE AND STICK TO THIS ONE SO THAT WAY WE DON'T GET TOO LENGTHY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YEAH, YOU SAID YOU BOUGHT THIS HOUSE IN MAY OF THIS YEAR? YES. OKAY. AND DID YOU HAVE THREE PEOPLE WHO WERE GONNA HAVE TO GO IN AND OUTTA THE HOUSE OR DRIVING IN AND OUT OUTTA THE HOUSE WHEN YOU BOUGHT IT? YEAH. UH, YES. WELL, TWO RIGHT NOW, THEN MY SISTER'S GONNA MOVE IN WITH US AS WELL. UH, BUT YOU ANTICIPATED HAVING THAT MANY PEOPLE IN THE HOME WITH THE DRIVEWAY IN, IN BACK ALLEY AS IT WAS. CORRECT. UH, THE PLAN WAS TO EXPAND THE DRIVEWAY. WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE, IT WAS GONNA BE A COMPLICATED ISSUE. YOU DIDN'T REALIZE YOU WERE BUYING IN A HISTORIC DIS DISTRICT? NO, I, I DID. UH, IT IS, WE NEVER ACTUALLY OWNED A HISTORICAL HOME BEFORE, SO WE KNEW WE HAD TO GO AND GET PERMITS. UM, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THE LIMIT WAS LIKE 10 FEET ONLY. UH, WE SAW OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR, THE, OUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE. UM, SO WE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY WERE ABLE TO DO IT, THEN THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO AS WELL. DID YOU TALK TO YOUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR ABOUT HOW THEY WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS? WE DID, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY ARE RENTING. UM, SO THE OWNERS DID A, I THINK A DECADE AGO FROM NO, THAT'S, THANK YOU SO MUCH. YEAH. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, CONCERNS? ARE THERE ANY, ANY OTHER, OKAY. THANK YOU SIR. THANK YOU. I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP FOR DISCUSSION. UM, IN READING THE LETTER FROM, UH, FREDERIKA KUSHNER, WHO'S, WHO WROTE ON BEHALF OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF GOOD POINTS THAT SHE MAKES IN TERMS OF, UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE APPLICANT BROUGHT THIS UP THAT PARKING ISN'T ALLOWED ON THEIR SIDE OF THE STREET, UM, WHICH I THINK IS DEFINITELY THEN GOING TO BE A MITIGATING FACTOR, AND THEN THE SLANT OF THE SITE, UM, I FIND [01:05:01] THE, THE DOUBLE WIDTH, UM, OF THE PROPOSED DRIVEWAY, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THE, THE LOCAL EXAMPLE THAT YOU SUPPLIED, UM, OF CONCERN, IT JUST SEEMS TO EAT UP A LOT OF THE FRONT YARD. UM, SO I WOULD, UM, THROW OUT THERE FOR DISCUSSION MAYBE THAT, UH, YOU DIS THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD DISCUSS WITH, UM, IS IT ADRIAN, UH, THE OPTIONS THAT MIGHT EXIST FOR HOW YOU COULD DESIGN THAT IN A WAY THAT MAKES IT MORE, UM, KIND OF APPROPRIATE TO WHAT IT IS, YOU KNOW, IN THAT CONTEXT. THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY THING, UH, THAT I WOULD THROW OUT THERE FOR DISCUSSION SINCE OBVIOUSLY THE, THE ALLEYWAY AND IT DOES LOOK LIKE THERE, ONE IS ONE ACCORDING TO THE SANBORN, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY AN OPTION. UM, MADAM CHAIR, I'D LIKE TO ECHO MY COLLEAGUE'S COMMENTS. UM, I, I'M WONDERING, UM, BECAUSE THE STAFF RECOMMENDS GOING UP TO A MAXIMUM OF 12 FEET, I'M WONDERING IF THERE'S, UM, FURTHER DISCUSSION THAT THE OWNER COULD HAVE WITH STAFF, UM, OF A WAY TO CONFIGURE THAT AND, AND, AND STILL BE WITHIN THE 12 FEET MAXIMUM. UM, I, I, I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD, BUT I JUST WANNA ECHO WHAT MY COLLEAGUE SAID. AND AND COMMISSIONER, JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS 10 FEET WIDE WITH A 12 FOOT APRON. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. I MISUNDERSTOOD ANY OTHER, YEAH, UH, I JUST KIND OF, AND MAYBE A GUESS WHAT WOULD BE THE MINIMUM WITH THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE TWO VEHICLES? I MEAN, DO WE NEED TO GO 18 FOOT? COULD WE GO 14 FEET FOR EXAMPLE? I THINK WHAT I THINK WHAT ADRIAN IS STATING IS ACCORDING TO COMPLIANCE AND REGULATION, IT'S 10 FEET WITH AN ADDITIONAL TWO FEET FOR ALLOWANCE FOR, FOR THE APRON. THAT'S CORRECT. AND THE MAX IS THE 10. AND ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S FRONT PARKING AND SOME OF THESE REGULATIONS THAT WERE ACTUALLY BROUGHT UP BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION, IT'S THE FRONT PARKING IS NOT PERMITTED AND IT DOES PUT THEM IN A PRECARIOUS MOTION, UH, UH, LOCATION. BUT THAT IS WHY THOSE WERE PUT IN PLACE. THAT'S WHAT THE REGULATIONS ARE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? AND THAT ONE IS MAX, THAT'S THE MAX 10 FEET WITH A, WITH A TWO FEET APRON. BUT WE CAN STILL RECOMMEND VOTE AGAINST THAT AND RECOMMEND A 14 FOOT WIDTH. AND THEN AT WHAT POINT HAVE WE AMENDED THE HISTORICAL GUIDELINES? AND THAT'S AN AMENDMENT, BUT THAT'S OUR PURPOSE SO THAT WE CAN, ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, APPROVE EXEMPTIONS. UM, GO AHEAD, MADAM CHAIR. I WOULD JUST TO YOUR POINT ABOUT AN ACTION ADMITTING THE GUIDELINES, UM, THE GUIDELINES ARE GUIDELINES, JUST, THEY'RE JUST THAT, OKAY, SO THEY'RE SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION BY THIS BODY, AND SO IT WOULD NOT BE, UM, LIKE A VARIANCE TO CITY RIGHT. REQUIREMENT. IT WOULD JUST BE YOUR INTERPRETATION AND, AND APPLICATION ON THIS SITE. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN BECAUSE WE WOULD MAKE AN, I MEAN, JUST BECAUSE WE MAKE A GUIDELINE DOESN'T MEAN IT'D BE APPROVED BECAUSE IT STILL HAS TO GO TO ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. IS THAT CORRECT? NO, NO. IT STOPS HERE. AND SO YOU INTERPRET THE, UM, THE POLICY AND YOU, YOU MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BASED ON THE EVIDENCE. THANK YOU FOR CLARIFICATION. GO AHEAD, MA'AM. AND I WOULD JUST ADD THAT, UM, I THINK THAT LOOKING AT THE RESTRICTIONS ON THIS PROPERTY, THAT IT IS MORE OF A HARDSHIP KIND OF SITUATION VERSUS THE LAST CASE, WHICH WAS MORE THEIR IDEA OF WHAT WAS FUNCTIONAL FOR THEIR NEEDS. UM, SO I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S WHERE THE DIFFERENCE IS AND THAT IN THIS CASE, UM, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TO RECOMMEND THAT THIS BE TABLED AND SENT BACK FOR FURTHER KIND OF, YOU KNOW, DISCUSSION WITH OHB ABOUT HOW IT MIGHT BE AMENDED OR MODIFIED, UH, TO BEST SUIT, MAYBE, UH, YOU KNOW, TO GET AS CLOSE TO WHAT WE WANT AND WHAT THEY WANT, UH, OR WORK, WHAT WORKS FOR THEM, ADRIAN, RIGHT NOW, IS IT 9.1? THAT'S ACCORDING TO THEIR SURVEY, MADAM CHAIR. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE TO GO OFF OF. SO THAT'S, AGAIN, THAT'S PRETTY CONSISTENT. NINE TO 10 FEET, 10 FEET BEING THE WIDEST FOR THE HISTORIC DRIVEWAYS. SO IT'S, IT'S VERY CONSISTENT AS FAR AS THE WIDTH GOES. UM, BUT THAT'S THE REQUEST. OKAY. GO AHEAD SIR. MADAM CHAIR. UH, A COMMENT AND A QUESTION FOR MR. GALLEGO. [01:10:01] UM, THE, THE COMMENT IS, I, I'M LISTENING TO MY COLLEAGUES AND I'M, I'M, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT AS A HISTORIC DISTRICT, THIS IS AN INTERESTING CASE OF, YOU KNOW, EARLY, YOU KNOW, UM, SUBURBAN PLATTING. WE'RE SEEING THAT STANDARDIZATION STARTING TO KICK IN, AND YET THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS NOT ABSOLUTELY WRECK TO LINEAR IN EVERY FORMAT. WE HAVE SOME UNUSUAL ROADS, UNUSUAL LOT SIZES, WHICH COMPLICATES THE ACCESS IN THE BACK. UM, WE HAVE THIS REALLY UNUSUAL, UM, SKEWED LOCATION OF, OF THE HOUSE THAT, UH, AFFECTS THE DRIVEWAY. AND, YOU KNOW, THESE ELEMENTS DO TELL A STORY OF, OF THE HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO AND THAT THAT EXPANSION OF THE CITY AND HOW, UH, NOT JUST THE HOUSE, BUT THE LAND DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS ARE STARTING TO SHIFT. UM, ALSO WE HAVE THE, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER WRINKLES, SURELY WHEN THEY WERE PLATTING THIS, NO ONE ANTICIPATED A LARGE HOSPITAL DOWN THE STREET THAT WAS GOING TO AFFECT, UM, YOU KNOW, PARKING, ACCESSIBILITY. AND ALSO WHEN THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, ESTABLISHING THIS, THEY PROBABLY WEREN'T THINKING OF A TIME WHEN WE WOULD ALL BE HAVING TWO OR THREE CARS PER FAMILY. UM, SO THAT WAS NOT WHAT THEY WERE LAYING IT OUT FOR. UH, NOW AS A HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, PRESERVATION ORIENTED BODY, WE, YOU KNOW, ARE WRESTLE WITH THESE THINGS ON ONE HAND, WE, WE, WE SEE THE CHALLENGES. WE ALSO LOOK AT DOWNTOWN SAN ANTONIO FOR THAT MATTER. YOU KNOW, WE CAN LOOK AT DOWNTOWN BOSTON OR, OR ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA OR OTHER PLACES WHERE THOSE STREETS WERE LAID OUT FOR CARTS. UM, SO WE DON'T WANNA GO AROUND. WE, WE, WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE REALITIES OF TODAY WHILE ALSO TRYING TO RESPECT SOME OF THAT HISTORIC FABRIC. AND, AND I, I FIND MYSELF, YOU KNOW, REALLY CHALLENGED HERE. DO WE KNOW MUCH MY QUESTION, DO WE KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE, UM, 18 TO 20 FOOT, UH, WIDE, UM, DRIVEWAY OF THE NEIGHBOR AND, AND THE, THE, WAS THAT BEFORE A, UH, THE, THE GUIDELINES WERE REVISED? I'M NOT SURE. COMMISSIONER, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE COULD DO OF COURSE IS, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALWAYS LOOK AT, UM, STREET VIEW TO SEE WHAT EVIDENCE WE HAVE OF IT. SO, UM, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S MUCH THERE. UM, BECAUSE YEAH, THIS, THIS ONE'S NOT GONNA BE HELPFUL. COMMISSIONER, SO THIS, THIS HOUSE IS A GRAYED OUT AND SO THERE ARE NO PREVIOUS STATES. SO THE ONE HOUSE THAT WE WANTED TO LOOK AT IS NOT, UM, YOU KNOW, ABLE TO BE LOOKED AT ADRIAN. ADRIAN. IS THE DRIVEWAY GONNA GO FURTHER INTO THE PROPERTY OR IS IT JUST ALL THE WAY UP TO THE BUILDING AS FAR AS THE SITE PLAN GOES? IT, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'LL BE UP TO THE PLANE OF THE HOUSE. SO JUST THE WAY, IT'S JUST EXPANDING THE WIDTH, BUT THE LENGTH IS, AND THE PLACE THE SAME. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, CLARIFICATIONS, OR DISCUSSIONS? YEAH, NO, UH, PART OF THE DISCUSSION, I'M THINKING IT, WE MAY NOT NEED TO PULL 18 FEET. WE MAY, MAY ONLY NEED TO GO AT 14 FEET OR 16 FEET AND IT WOULDN'T GO SO FAR INTO THE HOUSE. CAN I SAY SOMETHING? YEAH, THAT ONE. UH, THE REASON FOR THE 18 FEET WAS, UH, I ESSENTIALLY MEASURED OUT MY CAR. IT'S A PRETTY SMALL CAR. UM, IT WAS EIGHT, EIGHT FEET WIDE. UM, SO I ASSUME AT LEAST TWO CARS WOULD BE 16 FEET. UM, BUT 'CAUSE OF THE FENCE NEXT TO US, THE, IT WAS HARD. I HAVE A PICTURE WHERE I COULD BARELY OPEN THE DOOR. UM, SO 18 FEET WILL AT LEAST GIVE US SOME CLEARANCE FOR AT LEAST TWO CARS AND THEN, UH, WORK FROM THERE. UH, OUR NEIGHBORS IS 20 FEET WIDE. UM, WE SAID, ALRIGHT, WELL AT LEAST WE CAN DO 18 FEET, UH, PRESERVE SOME OF OUR LAWN AS WELL. AND THEN, SO WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS, I THINK THE HARD PART FOR ME IS ALL THESE CONDITIONS WERE IN PLACE WHEN YOU PURCHASED THE HOUSE AND IT WAS PURCHASED VERY, UH, RECENTLY KNOWING IT WAS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IF WE DOUBLE THAT DRIVEWAY, WE'RE GOING ALMOST ALL THE WAY UP TO THE WALK. SO NOW YOU'RE REALLY GETTING INTO FRONT YARD PARKING AND THE ENTIRE THING WOULD BE FRONT YARD PARKING. AND SO THAT'S THE DISTINGUISHING CHARACTERISTIC TO ME IS THAT I'M ASSUMING YOU KNEW THAT YOU COULDN'T PARK THERE WHEN YOU PURCHASED THE HOME ON THE STREET. YES. YEAH. AND SO, I MEAN, I GET SEEING THE OTHER ONE, I'D BE INTERESTED TO KNOW HOW THEY DID IT OR WHEN THEY DID IT, OR YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT WAS. AND I GET THE FUNCTIONALITY, BUT NOW YOU'RE KIND OF BLOCKING EVEN LIKE THOSE FRONT PART OF THE WINDOWS IN THAT. AND SO FOR ME THAT'S THE DISTINCTION. ARE THERE ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS, DISCUSSIONS? WHAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU MADE? UM, I'M [01:15:01] SORRY. YES. UM, I HAVEN'T MADE, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A MOTION OR JUST KIND OF A RECOMMENDATION? NO, WE WERE DISCUSSING ABOUT SOMETHING TO, SO MINE, MY, UM, SUGGESTION WAS TO TABLE IT AND LET IT GO BACK TO, UM, ADRIAN TO HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSIONS ON HOW, UM, IT MIGHT BE MITIGATED IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, ACCURATELY. I AGREE FOR, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE PRETTY MUCH GONNA NEED 16 FEET, BUT MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE IT LESS OF AN IMPACT ON THE FRONT YARD. YOU'RE ALREADY CUTTING IT DOWN BY FOUR FEET, WHICH IS WHAT THE NEIGHBOR HAS. AND IT IS THE NEIGHBOR. IF YOU LOOK AT THE AERIAL, UM, YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE AND WHAT OUR CONCERN SHOULD RIGHTLY BE, WHICH IS HOW MUCH SPACE IT TAKES UP. BUT, UM, THERE'S NOT EVEN REALLY IN THIS REGARD, THE THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO EVEN PARK TWO CARS, ONE BEHIND THE OTHER. SO ON A, ON LET'S SAY A 10 FOOT WIDE DRIVE. SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU DO? HOW, HOW DO YOU HELP IN THIS SITUATION? SO THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION THAT WOULD TABLE IT. AND IT GOES BACK TO FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION AND RESEARCH AND COMING UP WITH AN ALTERNATIVE, UM, MADAM CHAIR, I GUESS I WOULD ASK STAFF, GIVEN THAT LAST RECOMMENDATION AND, AND THOUGHT WOULD YOU HAVE ANY OTHER RECOMMENDATION THAN THE 10 FOOT? I MEAN, THAT IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION, RIGHT? LIKE GOING BACK ISN'T GONNA CHANGE THE DISCUSSION. SO YES AND NO COMMISSIONER, SO, YOU KNOW, UM, THE, THE DRIVEWAY INSTALLATION WOULD REQUIRE YOUR APPROVAL, RIGHT? AND SO THE 10 FOOT DRIVEWAY, RIGHT, IF WE WERE TO SAY, OKAY, WELL THE ACTUAL DRIVEWAY 10 FEET, YOU KNOW, THAT IS OF COURSE UP TO THIS BODY TO DECIDE AND TO APPROVE, UM, DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO APPROVE. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK HERE. SO WHAT YOU COULD DO OF COURSE, IS YOU COULD ISSUE THAT APPROVAL AS RECOMMENDED AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN WORK WITH THE APPLICANT ON ADDITIONAL OPTIONS. AND, AND IN THIS CASE I CAN MENTION THE PREVIOUS APPLICATION CONCERNING, UM, HOW THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, GRAVEL AND WE HAD TALKED ABOUT LANDSCAPING OPTIONS THAT AGAIN, COULD KIND OF ASSIST, UM, THEIR SITUATION IN THIS CASE. AGAIN, THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE DISCUSS POST-APPROVAL OF A DRIVEWAY ADHERING TO RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, SO YOU OF COURSE HAVE THE OPTION TO DECIDE THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, WHETHER IT BE AT EXACTLY AT THE, AS THE GUIDELINES WERE WRITTEN, A MODIFIED WIDTH AS A COMMISSIONER POLL, UM, WAS CONTEMPLATING. AND THEN OF COURSE, UH, TO ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS RELATED TO AGAIN, BEING ABLE TO PROPERLY FIT WELL, WE CAN, WE CAN EXPLORE THOSE AS OPTIONS, UH, THAT ARE KIND OF A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE LANDSCAPING SIDE. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CLARIFICATIONS? I WOULD SUPPORT A MOTION MADE BY COMMISSIONER AND THERE TO TABLE IT AND LET THE TWO PARTIES WORK ON A COMPROMISE AND THEN COME BACK TO US FOR APPROVAL. I WOULD ACTUALLY WOULD NOT WANT TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION BECAUSE IT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER IF WE DO THE RECOMMENDATION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS MOTION, HAVE THE APPLICANT GO BACK AND WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE IT THEN THEY WOULD ADDITIONALLY THEY WOULD HAVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND LET THE DEPARTMENT MAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS WITH THE APPROVAL THAT'LL MEET THE COMPLIANCES BECAUSE THAT WAY THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO ONCE SPEND THE TIME TO GO BACK AND FORTH BECAUSE THERE'S ALREADY GUIDELINES. AND IF WE SUPPORT THE MOTION WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THEY WORK WITH THE DEPARTMENT, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND. I THINK THE MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD APPROACH, IF THERE WAS INTEREST IN ALLOWING GREATER THAN 10 FEET TO JUST MAKE THAT THE MOTION AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA ACTUALLY, BECAUSE I JUST DON'T THINK THERE'S A BENEFIT IN TABLING IT. THAT'S, THAT'S JUST, IT NEEDS TOO MUCH TIME OF THE APPLICANT AND WE CAN ACTUALLY HAVE A, AN ANSWER HERE SHORTLY, AS LONG AS WE, WHAT WAS THE RECOMMENDATION CORY? ONE MORE TIME. . SO, SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDED STIPULATION IS WHAT THE GUIDELINES SAY, WHICH IS A 10 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY WITH A 12 FOOT FLARE OF THE CURB CUT. UM, BASED ON THE TESTIMONY AND SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS, I THINK THAT THERE'S INTEREST IN A COMPROMISE. UM, I CAN'T REALLY DICTATE WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, BUT THAT COULD BE PART OF THE MOTION. SO MADAM CHAIR, I, [01:20:01] I'M, I DUNNO IF I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION YET, BUT I WAS GOING TO AGREE WITH STAFF IN, IN THE SENSE THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALL CIRCLING AROUND IS THERE A, A COMPROMISE THAT IS A LARGER WIDTH THAT IS NOT THE, THE 18 BUT IT'S NOT THE 10. AND SO I THINK IF THAT IS WHERE WE ARE CIRCLING AROUND, THAT'S PROBABLY THE CLEANEST THING IS TO JUST MAKE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR OF WHAT WE THINK AN APPROPRIATE WIDTH IS AS OPPOSED TO GOING BACK, UH, AND STARTING OVER. I AGREE WITH THAT. THE 16TH. I MEAN, SO THAT YOU HAVE, IT CAN WORK FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU NEED A FUNCTION. SO CAN WE ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THAT THEN? UH, I DO YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION? YOU, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION WITH THE PROVISO, PROVISO THAT STAFF WORK A COMPROMISE TO POSSIBLY EXTEND IT TO 14 FEET WIDE. SO NO, NO IT DOESN'T. THAT'S NOT, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. IT DOESN'T NEED THE STAFF COMPROMISED PART. I THINK YOU SHOULD JUST MAKE THE MOTION THAT IT BE ALLOWED AT 14 FEET WITH THE ASSUMPTION OF 16 FEET AT THE CURB. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, THIS WILL BE TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK, RIGHT? LIKE THE DISTANCE OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE LENGTH OF THE DRIVEWAY IS NOT THE ISSUE. LIKE THEY COULD DO A 10 FOOT DRIVEWAY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FENCE WITHOUT ANY OF US, CORRECT? CORRECT. YEAH, WE, WE, AND SO THIS IS JUST ABOUT INCREASING THE WIDTH. THIS, THIS IS STRICTLY RELATED TO THE WIDTH, BUT THIS IS WORKING WITH STAFF. IN OTHER WORDS, A PROOF WAS WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING UP TO THE, SO IT WOULD BE MO A MODIFIED, UM, IT WOULD BE A MODIFICATION TO THE, OUR RECOMMENDATION. SO IT WOULD BE A COMPLETELY A DIFFERENT MOTION SO TO SPEAK IN THAT. UM, UH, WHAT OUR INTRO INTERIM DIRECTOR IS SAYING IS, UM, THAT THE, UM, MOTION BE, AND OF COURSE THIS WILL BE UP TO YOU ALL TO DECIDE FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE A DRIVEWAY THAT'S 14 FEET WIDE WITH A FLARE OUT OF 16 FEET. UM, SO THERE WOULD BE NO MENTION IN THE MOTION OF THE 10 FEET AND AND BENAM CHAIR. I WAS JUST GOING TO, TO ADD TO THAT, I THINK, I THINK THE HOLDUP IS THAT THE, THE MOTION STARTED WITH WE APPROVE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS BUT WE'RE NOT APPROVING STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS 'CAUSE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS IS 10. SO I THINK WHAT THE STAFF IS SAYING IS THAT IF WE WANT 14, IF THAT'S EVEN WHAT WE WANT THE MOTION TO BE ON THE FLOOR THAT WE JUST SAY A DRIVEWAY OF 14. 'CAUSE WE WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTING STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. YES. BUT IT'S UNDERSTOOD THAT WE HAVE THE TWO FEET FOR THE, FOR THE EAVES OR, YES, CORRECT. SO YOU COULD, YOU COULD WORD IT IN A SIMILAR WAY AS WE HAVE IT WRITTEN WITHOUT MENTION OF OUR RECOMMENDATION OR THE 10 FEET. SO AGAIN, AS WE HAVE IT HERE WITH AN APPROACH MEASURING NO WIDER THAN, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE, UM, YOU, YOU ALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE THE MOTION THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, UH, 12 FEET WIDE WITH, YOU KNOW, AN APPROACH MEASURING 14. OKAY. CAN YOU SHOW US THE 14 FEET? I MEAN, SO WE GET AN UNDERSTANDING 'CAUSE I'M SORRY. NO SIR. WE'RE NOW WE'RE IN DISCUSSION AND WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A MOTION. SO I'LL JUST SAY WITH REGARD TO THE 14 FEET, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT'S COMING FROM. 'CAUSE HE SAID HIS CAR IS EIGHT FEET WIDE, SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SIDE BY SIDE IF IT'S 14 FEET. A HATCHBACK AT EIGHT FEET WIDE IS PRETTY SMALL. AND SO GIVING ANOTHER SIX FEET I FEEL LIKE DOESN'T REALLY DO ANYTHING. BUT WHEN THE DRIVEWAY GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE FENCE, IT LOOKS LIKE AT LEAST TWO CARS ARE GONNA FIT IN THERE NOSE TO TAIL. AND SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT INCREASING TO 14 FEET DOES EXCEPT FOR EXTRA THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE MORE WHILE NOT REALLY SOLVING THE PROBLEM. NO, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THE WIDTH WILL GO UP TO 14, WHICH WILL MEASURE NO WIDER THAN THE 12 FEET. WHAT THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING IS IT CAN'T GO ANY FURTHER THAN 14, BUT IT'S GONNA BE GUIDED BY THE STAFF TO BE ABLE TO GO UP TO THAT. BUT WHEN TO GIVE THEM THE EXTRA, THE EXTRA WIDTH TO THAT THEY'RE REQUESTING IT'S NO WIDER THAN THE, THAN THE 12 FEET THAT'S GONNA GIVE THE APPLICATION THE, THE, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? THE EAVES, THE, UH, WE CALL IT THE APPROACH OR THE APPROACH? THE APPROACH. THE APPROACH. JUST TO CLARIFY MADAM CHAIR AND COMMISSION, UH, ACTUALLY NO MOTION ON THE FLOOR. IT WASN'T SECOND, RIGHT. ANOTHER MOTION. WE ARE NOT GOING TO HA IF WE'RE GONNA ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION. THANK YOU FOR THE CLARIFICATION. MY APOLOGIES. DOES, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WHAT, WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR OR WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY, SO THE MOTION WOULD HAVE TO BE FOR THE APPROVAL [01:25:01] TO INSTALL A 14 FEET CONCRETE DRIVE AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE LOT WITH THE APPROACHMENT MEASURING NO WIDER THAN 16 FEET IS WHAT THEY'RE, IS HOW WE WOULD BE WORDING IT. THAT WOULD BE THE MOTION. IT'S NOT RECOMMENDING OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT IT'S A MOTION TO INSTALL POINT OF CLARIFICATION. WHO MADE THAT MOTION? THERE HAS NOT BEEN ONE. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ONE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT SUPPORTING. AND THANK YOU FOR THE YES. UM, SO WE HAVEN'T MADE A MOTION SO I CAN STILL MAKE UM, A COMMENT. YES MA'AM, GO AHEAD. THAT, THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY 14 FEET'S NOT GONNA WORK. YOU'RE GONNA END UP ON THE GRASS. UM, AT A MINIMUM IT NEEDS TO BE 16. THAT WOULD BE A COMPACT, LET'S SAY PARKING LOT SPACE. A COMPACT ONE IS EIGHT FEET. UH, WHICH MEANS THAT EVEN WITH TWO CARS SIDE BY SIDE, I MEAN , IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO GET IN AND OUT. UM, HOWEVER THAT WOULD BE IF WE WENT WITH LET'S SAY 16 FEET, THAT'S LESS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR? 16 FEET? I WAS ASKING 18. YEAH. SO IF WE CUT IT BACK EVEN A LITTLE BIT MORE, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP AND TO ADDRESS, UM, COMMISSIONER, UM, I'M SO SORRY, SARAH. I WANNA SAY CONNOR. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW I'M TALKING TERMINATOR RIGHT NOW. UM, RIGHT . UM, IN TERMS OF THE LENGTH OF THE DRIVE, UH, I HEAR A CONCERN THAT IT NOT GO STRAIGHT UP TO, UH, THE FRONT FACADE OF THE HOUSE. IS THAT CORRECT? NO, NO, NO, NO. I AM IN FULL SUPPORT TO THE DRIVEWAY GOING ALL THE WAY UP. I'M JUST SAYING THAT AT THAT POINT IS THAT TWO CAR LENGTHS VERSUS TRYING TO EXPAND IT SIDEWAYS. UM, AND I WOULD SAY THAT LOOKING AT THE, THE SURVEY THAT THE ANSWER IS NO BECAUSE IT'S 26 FEET AND UM, A STANDARD CAR, UH, LENGTH FOR A PARKING SPACE IS AT A MINIMUM 18 FEET. SO IT'S NOT REALLY ENOUGH TO GET ANOTHER CAR IN THERE BEHIND IT WITHOUT IT PROTRUDING ON OVER THE SIDEWALK, WHICH IS, UM, I, IS IT ILLEGAL? I KNOW IT'S NOT, UM, SOMETHING YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO. SO I THINK YOU, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU DO IN THAT CASE, YOU COULD PROBABLY CUT OFF A COUPLE OF FEET OR THREE FEET OR FOUR FEET FROM THE HOUSE AND IT WOULD BE TIGHT. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TWO CARS SIDE BY SIDE, SO I'M JUST THROWING THAT OUT FOR YOU GUYS TO THINK ABOUT. BUT THE CARS DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE SIDE BY SIDE. THEY CAN BE STAGGERED. TRUE. UH, CHAIR, UM, UH, JUST A QUICK COMMENT. UM, UM, I SUPPORT MY, MY COLLEAGUE HERE, UH, 16 FEET, UH, WOULD WORK WITH THE, UH, ADDITION OF, UH, WORKING WITH THE STAFF TO SUPPORT SOME KIND OF, UH, OF UM, I GUESS IT'S CALLED, UH, UH, CREEK GRASS OR SOME KIND OF A, UH, ASPHALT OR TO SUPPORT THE EXTRA TWO FEET. UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT SOME, SOME, I GUESS THE STAT COULD WORK ON THAT EXTRA TWO FEET. NOT NECESSARILY, UH, UH, CEMENT TYPE SOUNDS LIKE A, SOUNDS LIKE A MOTION IF YOU WANNA PHRASE IT THAT WAY. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE APPROACH MEASUREMENTS, LIKE THE, THE PING FOR THE, FOR THE LANDSCAPING? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? HE'S TALKING ABOUT GRASS CREEK PAVERS. YEAH. UM, WHICH ARE A DRIVABLE SURFACE THAT ALLOW FOR GRASS TO GROW THROUGH. OKAY. UM, AND OUR ATTORNEY HERE IS REALLY WANTING Y'ALL TO MAKE A MOTION SO THAT WE CAN DISCUSS THE MOTION AND NOT HYPOTHETICALS. THANK YOU. YES. OKAY, SO MOTION. OKAY. I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION THAT THE, THAT THE, UH, APPROVAL FOR UH, 16 FEET AND UH, TO WORK WITH A, UH, THE STAFF FOR THE UH, UH, FOLLOWING TWO FEET, SECOND CURRENT, THERE IS A MOTION TO INSTALL A 16 FOOT WIDE WITH A MEASURING NO WIDER THAN 18. IS THAT CORRECT? SO THIS MOTION WOULD ALLOW FOR A SOLID CONCRETE DRIVEWAY UP TO 16 FEET WIDE. AND THERE'S AN OPTION TO WORK WITH STAFF ON AN ADDITIONAL TWO FEET TO REACH THE FULL 18 FEET. PROVIDED THAT THE SURFACE IS A GRASS CREEK OR SOME OTHER SURFACE THAT ALLOWS FOR GREEN, WON'T BE THAT PRESCRIPTIVE, BUT THERE'S SOME OPTIONS OUT THERE. OKAY. ROLL CALL, VOTE PLEASE. DAVIS. AYE. GARCIA? AYE. REGARD? AYE. SPILLER. AYE. FULLERTON. AYE. P*****K. [01:30:01] AYE. AND NAY. MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH GENTLEMEN. IF YOU'LL PLEASE, UH, WELL FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND IF YOU'LL GO BACK AND WORK WITH STAFF SO THAT WAY WE CAN COMPLY. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME I'D LIKE TO ADJOURN OUR MEETING AT 10 35. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.