* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Roll Call] [00:00:02] I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5TH. MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? FERNANDEZ. P HERE. HERE, I MEAN, UM, GIBBS. HERE. VELAZQUEZ. HERE. ARLA. MARTINEZ FLORES. HERE. CARPENTER HERE. HERE. BOWMAN. HERE. ZER HERE. BEFORE WE GET STARTED, WE DO HAVE A QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING TRANSLATION SERVICES FOR THE MEETING. [Chairman’s Statement] THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION IS AN ADVISORY BOARD APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. I'M JEFFREY FETZER, CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIR IS SCOTT CARPENTER. IT IS THE FUNCTION OF THE COMMISSION TO ADVISE THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL RELEVANT CITY DEPARTMENTS CONCERNING ALL APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS FOR PROPERTIES IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR LANDMARKS ON CITY PROPERTY, IN THE RIVER IMPROVEMENT OVERLAY, AND FOR DEMOLITIONS. IN CONSIDERING WHETHER TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF AN APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, THE COMMISSION WILL BE GUIDED BY THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND DESIGN GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL. AN APPEAL OF A DECISION BY AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICIAL CAN BE FILED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHES TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF OR IN OPPOSITION TO ANY ITEM ON TODAY'S AGENDA, PLEASE SIGN UP ON THE PUBLIC COMMENT SHEET. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO SIGN UP. IF YOU ARE THE OWNER OF A REPRESENTATIVE FOR A PROJECT, UM, ON THE AGENDA, YOU'LL BE CALLED ON AS THE CASE IS CALLED. CASE REPRESENTATIVES WILL BE GIVEN NO MORE THAN 20 MINUTES TO PRESENT THEIR CASE WITH AN ADDITIONAL THREE MINUTES TO RESPOND TO PUBLIC COMMENTS. SPEAKERS FOUR OR OPPOSED TO A CASE WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. EACH SPEAKERS MAY ALSO YIELD UP THEIR TIME TO ANOTHER SPEAKER WHO HAS SIGNED UP. ANYONE WHO IS YIELDING THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AT THE TIME. THE SPEAKER'S CALLED UPON SPEAKERS WILL BE CALLED UPON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE SIGNED UP FOLLOWING PUBLIC TESTIMONY. ANY COMMISSIONER MAY CALL UPON ANY SPEAKER TO RESPOND TO FURTHER QUESTIONS. APPROVAL BY THE COMMISSION DOES NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF ANY TYPE OF PERMIT. PERMITS MUST BE OBTAINED FOR ALL WORK. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR WORK APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION WILL BE EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. NO WORK OF ANY TYPE IS TO BE STARTED WITHOUT OBTAINING THE APPROPRIATE CITY PERMITS. AFTER A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS HAS BEEN ISSUED BY THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT THIS TIME, PLEASE SILENCE YOUR CELL PHONES. THANK YOU. UM, WE DO NOT HAVE ANY SPEAKERS SIGN IN FOR GENERAL COMMENTS, AND SO WE CAN ['A' CONSENT AGENDA] NOW DRAW OUR ATTENTION TO THE SCREEN. UM, WE HAVE FOUR ITEMS ON THE, UH, CONSENT, A ITEM AGENDA, A ONE THROUGH A FOUR. UM, WE HAVE SPEAKERS SIGNED IN TO SPEAK FOR ITEM A TWO. UM, AND I BELIEVE, UM, CHAIRMAN FETZER, UH, REQUIRES A RECUSAL. SO HE'S GONNA RECUSE FROM A VOTE FOR THE, UM, REMAINDER OF THE CONSENT AGENDA. SO WE CAN NOW ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR ITEMS A ONE, A THREE, AND A FOUR. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER FETZER HAS LEFT THE ROOM, AND I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA. A ITEMS I MOVE FOR APPROVAL ON ITEMS A ONE, THREE AND FOUR WITH STIPULATIONS. WE HAVE A MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION PASSES, YOUR HONOR, THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 3 28 EAST JOSEPHINE 1425 SOUTH FLORES AND PROPERTIES ON WOODHULL MISSION IN HUIZAR. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RETURNED THE PUBLIC NOTICE, YARD SIGN AND PLACED ON YOUR PROPERTY, PLEASE DO SO AT THE O H P COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. YES. SO THAT BRINGS US TO ITEM A TWO, [A-2 20-1690 Address/Description: 410 E NUEVA 422 E NUEVA HDRC Case No.: 2019-108 Landmark Name: Marbach House, Medero House Historic District Name: La Villita RIO District: RIO-3 Applicant: Mari Michael Glassel Request: Construction of an 8-story, mixed-use structure City Council Dist.: 1] UM, ADDRESS IS FOUR 10 EAST NEVA. UM, WE HAVE A SPEAKER SIGNED IN VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE. YES. SO FOR ALL SPEAKERS TODAY, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS INTO THE MICROPHONE AND SPEAK TO THE MICROPHONE FOR THE RECORD. VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE, 91 18 FAIRLAND, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. AND I'M SPEAKING FOR [00:05:01] THE SAN ANTONIO CONSERVATION SOCIETY. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO OPPOSES THE COLORATION OF THE PROPOSED BUILDING'S FACADE AS IT IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING AREA. THE SOCIETY RESPECTFULLY ASKS THAT A COLOR PALETTE MORE IN KEEPING WITH THOSE FOUND IN THE LOBBY ITA HISTORIC DISTRICT BE CONSIDERED. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO PATINE PRESIDENT, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE SIGNED IN. UM, IS THE APPLICANT AVAILABLE FOR THIS CASE? HI, I AM MARY MICHAEL GLASSELL HERE FROM, UH, MY ADDRESS IS 1304 ALLEGRIA ROAD, AUSTIN, TEXAS. COULD YOU, UM, MAYBE ELABORATE UPON THE, UH, THE CHOICE OF THE COLOR SCHEME AND WHAT, WHAT WERE THE THOUGHTS BEHIND THAT FROM THE DESIGN TEAM? SURE. I THINK THAT OUR IDEA FOR THE COLOR SCHEME ESPECIALLY, I FEEL LIKE THE BASE BEING A MORE NEUTRAL, LARGE FORMAT STONE SEEMS MOST IN LINE. I THINK THAT THE DARKER BRICK HAS BEEN A LONGSTANDING DISCUSSION. I THINK THAT THAT BRICK COULD BE, UM, I SUPPOSE WE WOULD CONSIDER A LIGHTER BRICK. ALSO, I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIND IS KIND OF A NEUTRAL PALETTE THAT RESPONDS TO THE CONTEXT, BUT STILL HAS A KIND OF COOL TONE COLLECTIVELY USING THE YELLOW AS KIND OF A POP THAT STARTS TO HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S ON THIS REALLY PROMINENT CORNER. AND SO WE'RE JUST KIND OF USING THAT YELLOW JUST AS AN ACCENT PIECE. SO I GUESS THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY A GREAT ARGUMENT, BUT BE HAPPY TO TO AGREE TO THE STIPULATIONS. I DO AGREE TO THE STIPULATIONS. ARE THOSE RAILINGS GONNA BE SOLID? THE YELLOWS ARE PERFORATED STEEL, SO THERE IS ABOUT A 30% LIGHT COMING THROUGH THEM, SO THEY'RE NOT TOTALLY SOLID AND THEY'RE PAINTED, THEY'RE PAINTED WOULD TEND TO AGREE WITH THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY, ESPECIALLY IN THE, THE DARK, UM, BRICK AND, UH, GRAY PANELS ON THE UPPER PART OF THE, THE FACADE. UM, YOU KNOW, LATELY WE'VE SEEN, UH, THIS A, UH, TREND TO GO TO BLACKS AND DARK GRAYS AND, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT IN NEW, NEW CONSTRUCTION. BUT, UH, HISTORICALLY SAN ANTONIO HAS BEEN MORE OF A, UM, LIGHTER COLOR SCHEMES, UH, THE BUFF BRICK, THE LIMESTONE, THE, UM, ELEMENTS LIKE THAT AND SAY THAT IF, IF YOU'RE WILLING TO LOOK AT, UM, A OPTION FOR THE, UH, THE BRICK BODY, UH, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT WE WOULD CERTAINLY BE WILLING TO LOOK AT AN OPTION. I THINK OUR GOAL WITH THIS IS THE KIND OF BASE BODY CAP HAS BEEN A REAL CONCEPT THIS WHOLE TIME WITHIN THIS BUILDING. AND I THINK FINDING A WAY TO KIND OF GIVE THAT CONTRAST OF THE BODY FROM THE BASE HAS ALSO BEEN OUR MAIN OBJECTIVE. AGAIN, THERE IS A, A WIDE RANGE OF KIND OF COLOR SPECTRUMS, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT LEFT US, KIND OF ALLOWED US TO DEPART FROM THE, THE TANS OR THE KIND OF SIMILAR COLOR TO THE LIMESTONE BASE IS TO JUST REALLY HIGHLIGHT THIS KIND OF THREE TIERED SYSTEM. BUT I, AGAIN, I THINK THAT OPTIONS FOR THE PANELS, UM, THE LIGHTER PANELS OR THE DARKER BRICK COULD BE SOMETHING WE COULD CERTAINLY DISCUSS. SO I RE I REMEMBER IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE REVIEWED THIS IN D R C C AND THE, UH, BREAKING OF THE ELEMENTS OF THE FACADE THROUGH THE CONTRASTING ELEMENTS WAS CASE MADE. RIGHT. FOR THAT CONTRAST, I THINK CONTRAST IS IMPORTANT. THERE'S A MAYBE A ZONE TO DIAL IT BACK A BIT, SOFTEN IT AND FIND AS, UH, A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN IS PROPOSED HERE. IS THAT, OH, TOTALLY. I THINK THAT IT'S, WE'VE GONE THE DARKER RANGE. I THINK WE COULD TOTALLY PULL THAT BACK. I THINK WHAT I'M TRYING TO ARGUE FOR IS COULD WE STAY IN A GRAY RANGE INSTEAD OF A TAN, FOR EXAMPLE? OR IS IT, UM, KEEPING A CONTRAST FROM THE LIME, THE, THE BIG FORMAT STONE ON THE BASE AND COLORATION, BUT MAYBE NOT IN SATURATION DURATION? MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, PLEASE. UM, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS AND WITH THE ADDITIONAL STIPULATION THAT THE, UM, UH, APPLICANT RETURN TO O O H P STAFF, UH, WITH A PROPOSED, UH, UH, RANGE OF, UH, UH, COLORS FOR THAT MID TIER OF BRICK, UH, AND FOR THE METAL PANELS, UH, FOR APPROVAL BY STAFF. [00:10:01] SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. UH, ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK Y'ALL SO MUCH. AGENDA ITEM [A-5 20-1706 Address/Description: 1915 BROADWAY HDRC Case No.: 2020-005 RIO District: RIO-2 Applicant: wilmer figueroa/wfconstruction Request: Patio modifications, signage City Council Dist.: 1] A FIVE H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 0 5 19 15 BROADWAY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE PERFORM MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING PATIO TO INCLUDE MODIFICATIONS TO THE APPEARANCE OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. TWO, TO INSTALL A WALL SIGN ON THE PATIO STRUCTURES CANOPY TO READ SENOR FISH SEAFOOD BAR TO FEATURE AN OVERALL LENGTH OF APPROXIMATELY 26 FEET. AND OVERALL HEIGHT OF APPROXIMATELY 23 FEET FOR APPROXIMATELY 49 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE. THIS SIGN WILL FEATURE INTERNAL ILLUMINA, INTERNAL ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTERS. AND THREE TO INSTALL A WALL SIGN ON THE WEST FACING WALL TO READ SENOR FISH SEAFOOD BAR TO FEATURE AN OVERALL WIDTH OF APPROXIMATELY 7.4 FEET IN AND IN 6.7 FEET IN HEIGHT. FOR AN OVERALL SIZE OF APPROXIMATELY 49 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE, THE PROPOSED SIGN WILL FEATURE INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTERS WITH NON ILLUMINATED BACKER PANEL. THE PROPOSED SIGN WILL BE LOCATED AT A HEIGHT THAT ADDRESSES US HIGHWAY 2 81. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE AND TWO PATIO MODIFICATIONS IS IN THE INSTALLATION OF PATIO SIGNAGE BASED ON FINDINGS B AND C STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE, THE INSTALLATION OF SIGNAGE DIRECTED TORT THE WEST BASED ON FINDING D APPLICANT. HERE, PLEASE. YES, SIR. TONY AGUILAR COMMENTS TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS? NO, SIR. EVERYTHING'S GOOD. I THINK THE SIGN IS WITHIN THE, THE, UH, 50 SQUARE FEET BOUNDARIES. WHAT ABOUT STAFF? DOES NOT RECOMMEND THE SIGN FACING 2 81? UH, THE GENTLEMAN SAID THE SIGN MAKER SAID HE HAD APPLIED FOR IT, AND HE HASN'T GOTTEN A RESPONSE YET. I, I TEND TO AGREE WITH STAFF ON THIS, UM, RECOMMENDATION. SO YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS? YES, MA'AM. I CAN PROVIDE A LITTLE CLARIFICATION. UM, SO THIS SIGN WAS SUBMITTED TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND, UM, APPROVED WITHOUT COMING THROUGH, WITHOUT RECEIVING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. THEN, UH, REDACTED THAT PERMIT. UM, AND SO THIS IS HOW WE'VE WOUND UP HERE WITH THIS SIGN. UM, THE SIGN AS PROPOSED FACES WEST TORT 2 81, UM, FINDING D MAY PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY, UM, IN REGARDS TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR THAT SIGN. UM, AND I'LL READ FINDING D THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED TO INSTALL A WALL SIGN ON THE WEST FACING WALL TO READ SENOR FISH SEAFOOD BAR TO FEATURE AN OVERALL WIDTH OF APPROXIMATELY 7.4 FEET AND AN OVERALL HEIGHT OF 6.7 FEET FOR AN OVERALL SIZE OF APPROXIMATELY 49 SQUARE FEET. THE PROPOSED SIGN WILL FEATURE INTERNAL, INTERNALLY ILLUMINATED CHANNEL LETTERS WITH A NON ILLUMINATED BACKER PANEL. THE PROPOSED SIGN WILL BE LOCATED AT A HEIGHT THAT ADDRESSES US HIGHWAY 2 81, THE U D C SECTION 35 6 74 C ONE NOTES THAT SIZE, SCALE, HEIGHT, COLOR, AND LOCATION OF SIGNS SHALL BE HARMONIOUS WITH AND PROPERLY RELATED TO THE OVERALL CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT IN STRUCTURE. ADDITIONALLY, THE U D C SECTION 35 6 78 C FIVE NOTES THAT SIGNAGE REQUESTS FOR MULTI-TENANT BUILDINGS MUST COMPLIMENT EXISTING SIGNAGE WITH REGARDS TO SIZE NUMBER PLACEMENT AND DESIGN. STAFF FINDS THAT A SIGN AT THIS LOCATION MAY BE APPROPRIATE AS A BUILDING IDENTIFICATION SIGN, BUT NOT AS TENANT SIGNAGE. ADDITIONAL LOCATIONS FOR TENANTS TENANT SIGNAGE MAY BE DETERMINED THROUGH THE REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN. UM, I CAN ASK THAT STEPH. UM, THE, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A MASTER SIGNAGE PLAN WOULD BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE LANDLORD, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO, UM, WOULD, WOULD IT BE BENEFICIAL TO ADVISE THEM TO, UH, CONSULT WITH THE, UH, THE, UH, PROPERTY OWNER, UH, AND NOT NECESSARILY MAYBE REMOVE IT FROM HERE AND NOT GET A DENIAL HERE ON THAT, THAT PIECE, BUT TO GO BACK AND SEE IF THEY, IF THEY WANT TO PROPOSE A MASTER SIGNAGE PAD WITH RESPECT TO WHAT IS FACING FACING WEST, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE APPLICANT TO WITHDRAW. UM, ITEM THREE, RECEIVE THE APPROVAL FOR ITEMS ONE AND TWO. [00:15:01] THAT WAY THEY CAN CONTINUE WITH THAT AND THEN WORK ON, UM, ADDITIONAL SIGNAGE OR AN ALTERNATE SIGN, UM, IN PLACE OF SIGN THREE. YES, I DO. UH, I, UM, WOULD, WOULD, WOULD THEN LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO, UM, TO, FOR APPROVAL AS SUBMITTED WITH THE REMOVAL OF, I, I BELIEVE IT'S D ITEM NUMBER THREE. ITEM THREE, ITEM THREE. UH, THAT WAS MY MOTION. SECOND. A MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I, I HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION. IF WE GO TO, UH, THE SLIDE THAT YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN, THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER, SLIDE SEVEN, THE IMAGE IN THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER. IS THIS A PHOTOSHOP IMAGE OR IS THIS SIGN BEEN INSTALLED? IT HAS NOT BEEN INSTALLED. OKAY, GOOD. OKAY. JUST MAKING SURE. NO, IT'S REALLY CONVINCING. PHOTOSHOP. IT'S PRETTY GOOD, HUH? ? WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. OKAY, ['B' ITEMS CONSENT AGENDA] THAT BRINGS US TO ITEMS ON THE THE B AGENDA. UM, IF WE CAN PULL THAT, UM, LIST BACK UP TO THE SCREEN. UM, SO WE DO HAVE SPEAKERS SIGNED IN FOR ITEM B 1 1 11 NOLAN STREET. UM, WE DO NOT HAVE SPEAKERS FOR THE REMAINDER B TWO THROUGH B 10. UM, WE CAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION FOR THOSE. UH, DID SOMEBO MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, PLEASE. YES, PLEASE. UH, FOR APPROVAL FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS B TWO THROUGH B UH, 10 WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES YOUR ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND YOUR ADDRESS IS 1150 99TH STREET, 1 69 GREENLAWN 1112 EAST CROCKETT 2 41 EAST FRENCH CARACOL CREEK PARK 1 58, THE RAIN TWO 11 WEST MAGNOLIA, FIVE 11 EAST CRAIG AND 9 0 1 CAMDEN. YOUR CASE HAS BEEN APPROVED AND YOU DO NOT NEED TO STAY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THIS HEARING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CONTACT A MEMBER OF STAFF. YOUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OR COMMISSION ACTION LETTER WILL BE PREPARED AND EMAILED TO YOU WITHIN 10 DAYS. IF YOU HAVE NOT YET RETRIEVED AND RETURNED THE PUBLIC NOTICE YARD SIGN ON YOUR PROPERTY, PLEASE DO SO AT THE O H P COUNTER ON THE FIRST FLOOR. OKAY, THANK YOU. UM, SO ITEM B ONE IS ONE 11 NOLAN STREET. UM, WE HAVE TWO SPEAKERS. THE FIRST IS VALERIE CORTEZ. UM, AGAIN, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS INTO THE MICROPHONE. UM, EACH SPEAKER WILL BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES. MY NAME IS VALERIE CORTEZ. I RESIDE AT 5 0 8 LAMAR. I'M HERE REPRESENTING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIG, WITTY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH REGARD TO ADDRESS 1115 NOLAN. WE SUPPORT O P'S RECOMMENDATION WITH AN ADDED COMMENT THAT THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE FOOTPRINTS KEEP WITHIN THE 40% OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE'S FOOTPRINT AS REQUIRED IN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION GUIDELINES AS PRESENTED, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS 49%, 49%. IN ADDITION, WE BELIEVE THE OVERSIZED MAIN STRUCTURE THAT EXCEEDS THE 40% REQUIRED FOOTPRINT WILL CREATE FUTURE PARKING ISSUES. THE ALLEY IS A NON SERVICEABLE ALLEY, AND THE ONLY WAY INTO AND OUT OF THE BACK PARKING SPACES IS VIA THE FRONT DRIVEWAY, REQUIRING THAT INDIVIDUALS WILL HAVE A DELICATE BALANCE OF ASKING OTHER TENANTS TO MOVE THEIR CARS OR THEY WILL SIMPLY WIND UP PARKING IN THE STREET. THANK YOU. ARVIS HOLLAND. ARVIS HOLLAND 1112 BURNETT. AS I STATED IN MY LETTER, THAT SHOULD BE IN YOUR PACKAGES. UM, I LIVE DIRECTLY BEHIND IT, ACROSS THE SERVICEABLE ALLEY. THE ONLY REASON IT'S UNSER SERVICEABLE IS BECAUSE A RESIDENT HAS ALLOWED A TREE TO GROW UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ALLEY, BUT FROM ONE DIRECTION, IT IS USABLE. I KNOW I USE IT. I, MY WIFE AND I ARE STRONGLY IN SUPPORT OF THIS. WE'RE THE MOST IMPACTED PROPERTY. WE'RE DIRECTLY BEHIND THEM, 11 FEET ACROSS THE ALLEY, OUR BACKYARDS. SO WE HAVE SUPPORTED THEM THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS. THEY STARTED THIS OVER TWO YEARS AGO, AND WE HAVE BEEN IN STRONG SUPPORT OF THEM THE WHOLE TIME. THEY'RE GOOD NEIGHBORS. THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE. THANK YOU. [00:20:03] THAT'S ALL THE SPEAKERS WE HAVE. MAY WE HAVE THE APPLICANT PLEASE? GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. OH, SORRY, THAT'S A LITTLE LOUD. UH, MY NAME IS CHRIS MGEN, 1115 NOLAN STREET. UM, I HAVE, UH, GOOD TO, GOOD TO SEE YOU, COMMISSIONER GRUBE. UM, I HAVE, UH, A COUPLE, WELL, I HAVE A COUPLE PRESENTATIONS FROM THE PAST, UH, FROM 2017. MY CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL PRESENTATION IS QUITE LONG. MY FINAL APPROVAL PRESENTATION IS MUCH SHORTER. UM, HOWEVER, UH, I DID WANT TO ADDRESS THE, THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE IN OPPOSITION. UH, BACK IN 2017. I WAS UNAWARE THAT, UH, AN H D R C, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS COULD EXPIRE. UM, AND IT HAS TAKEN US A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET EVERYTHING COORDINATED. I'M NOT A DEVELOPER. THIS IS OUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE. THIS IS THE HOUSE THAT WE LIVE IN, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I DO REGULARLY. SO IT'S TAKEN LONGER THAN I EXPECTED. I WASN'T AWARE OF THE TIME LIMIT. AND, UM, I'M BACK HERE TODAY JUST ASKING FOR EXACTLY WHAT STAFF HAS STIPULATED, UM, THE, UH, THE FOOTPRINT, WHILE IT DOES EXCEED THE 40% RECOMMENDATION, UH, BACK IN MY PRESENTATION FROM 2017, UH, I PRESENTED A NUMEROUS, UH, QUANTITY OF EXAMPLES FROM AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, THAT EXCEEDED THAT. AND, AND WE'RE VERY SIMILAR TO THE SIZE OF OUR PROPERTY. WE HAVE 16,000 SQUARE FEET, UH, OVER A THIRD OF AN ACRE. AND IN RELATION TO THE MAIN HOUSE, UH, THIS STRUCTURE, UH, DOESN'T SEEM VERY LARGE AT ALL. IN FACT, WE DID A STREET SCAPE STUDY. I'M HAPPY TO SHOW EVERYBODY ALL THE INFORMATION IF YOU WANT. UH, IT'S NOT EVEN VISIBLE FROM THE STREET. SO, UM, I'M, I'M, I'M HAPPY TO ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS OR GIVE MORE INFORMATION. I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT. SO I WAS A COMMISSIONER BACK THEN IN 2017 AND REMEMBER THIS PROJECT VERY WELL, AND THE APPLICANT DID DO A VERY THOROUGH PRESENTATION. UM, AND WE DID APPROVE, LIKE WE HAVE DONE IN MANY PREVIOUS CASES. EACH CASE IS UNIQUE. UM, I THINK WE ALSO APPROVED THIS BASED ON THE FULL PROJECT. I MEAN, YOU'RE ALSO RESTORING THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. CORRECT. AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING THAT LANDSCAPING, I MEAN, REALLY DOING A LOT OF WORK IN THIS. I MEAN, IT'S, AND ALSO A BIG LOT. UM, SO I MEAN, I, AND, AND AS THE APPLICANT STATED, HE IS COMING BACK FOR, UM, EXTEND HIS CONCEPTUAL, UH, HE'S ALREADY APPROVED. I, YEAH, I'M, I'M SORRY. THIS IS FOR A REISSUANCE OF THE PREVIOUSLY ISSUED, UM, APPROVAL. DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE STIPULATIONS THAT ARE ADDED? NO, NONE WHATSOEVER. MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, IN LIGHT OF THE, THE DEPTH OF THIS SITE, I THINK IT'S, IT'S APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THIS EXCEED OR BUMP UP A LITTLE BIT ON THAT, ON THE PERCENTAGES. AND I MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL WITH, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. A MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? YES, MR. CHAIRMAN, I HAVE DISCUSSION. YES, SIR. CAN YOU ADDRESS THE CITIZEN'S CONCERN ABOUT THE PARKING? YES. UH, SURE. SO, UH, WE HAVE, UH, TWO DRIVEWAYS ON THE PROPERTY ALREADY, AND, UH, I DID WANNA SAY THAT, UH, REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATION WITH THE ALLEY, THE, THE PRIMARY ACCESS REMAINS AND WILL REMAIN OFF OF NOLAN STREET. UM, THAT IS A DOUBLE WIDE DRIVEWAY ALL THE WAY BACK THAT'S EXISTING. WELL, THE ENTIRE BACKYARD IS ALL CONCRETE, BUT THAT DRIVEWAY WILL REMAIN CONCRETE. UH, AND THE, THAT WE'VE ADDED FOUR PARKING SPOTS TO THE, THE NORTH SIDE, THE, THE BACKSIDE OF THE STRUCTURE. AND THERE'S ALSO TWO ADDITIONAL SPOTS INSIDE OF THE GARAGE. THAT'S SIX PARKING SPOTS. UH, THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS FOR, FOR THREE UNITS BACK THERE. IT'S, IT'S NOW JUST TWO UNITS BACK THERE. SO THERE'S PLENTY OF PARKING AVAILABLE OFF THE STREET. UM, SO THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY, ANY, ANY REAL ISSUES WITH THAT. SO THEIR CONCERN WITH THE PARKING, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT DOESN'T EXIST. SO THEY'RE, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS, IS NOT VALID OR OPINION VERSUS WHAT YOURS IS. I'M SAYING, UM, WE, WE CAN ACCOMMODATE ENOUGH OF THE VEHICLES THAT WOULD BE OCCUPYING THE PROPERTY ON SITE AND NOT ON THE STREET. AND SO, YEAH, I, THAT'S, THAT'S JUST THE, THE STATE OF THINGS. APOLOGIZE, . I DIDN'T WANNA, UM, I'LL, I'LL I'LL SAY JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE. UH, THE FACT THAT, THAT, THAT WE'VE REDUCED IT DOWN TO, FROM THREE UNITS TO TWO UNITS IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN AWARE OF, SO THEY PROBABLY DIDN'T HAVE COMPLETE INFORMATION. UH, WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. CLOSE NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. [B-11 20-1704 Address/Description: 214 LOTUS ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-009 Applicant: Office of Historic Preservation Request: Recommendation for historic landmark designation City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM B, ITEM B 11 ON THE AGENDA, H C R C, CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 0 9 2 14 LOTUS STREET. THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS REQUESTING A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION REGARDING DESIGNATION OF THE [00:25:01] PROPERTY AT TWO 14. LOTUS STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF TWO 14 LOTUS BASED ON FINDING A, UM, COMMISSIONERS. WE HAVE A SPEAKER SIGNED IN. WE ALSO HAVE THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE AVAILABLE. UM, AGAIN, REMINDER THAT CITY STAFF IS THE, UM, REQUESTER FOR THIS ITEM. UM, THIS CASE, LIKE THE CASE NEXT OR AFTER IT, UM, ARE BOTH, UM, RECOMMENDATIONS TO ZONING COMMISSION FOR HISTORIC DESIGNATION. UM, YOU MAY RECALL THAT PREVIOUSLY THIS COMMISSION REVIEWED, UM, UH, FINDINGS OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCES FOR THE PROPERTIES. UM, SO FOLLOWING COUNCIL RESOLUTION, WE'RE NOW SEEKING A, UH, RECOMMENDATION TO ZONING COMMISSION. SO IT'S A SEPARATE REQUEST. UM, SO VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE, GOOD AFTERNOON. VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE, 91 18 FAIRLAND, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS 7 8 2 3 0. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO CONTACTED THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION REGARDING THE HOME AT TWO 14 LOTUS. BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT THE PROPERTY HAD ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE, WE ALSO KNEW THAT THE BUILDING HAD BEEN MARKETED WITHIN THE LAST YEAR AS A HISTORIC PROPERTY IN AN AREA WITH A VIBRANT TRADITION OF REUSE AND REHABILITATION. THE SALE PRICE APPEARED CONSISTENT WITH THAT OF OTHER PRESERVATION PROJECTS IN THE COMMUNITY. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CONCURS THAT THE HOME AT TWO 14 LOTUS MEETS THREE OF THE CRITERIA REQUIRED IN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR DESIGNATION AS A HISTORIC LANDMARK. FIRST, IT IS AN EX, AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE OF A QUEEN AND OF A QUEEN END STYLE VICTORIAN HOME WITH ITS CLAPBOARD SIDING, DISTINCTIVE ROOF LINE AND DECORATIVE PORCH ADDITIONS TO THE HOUSE DO NOT DETRACT FROM THE COLUMN, FRONT PORCH, LARGE ENTRANCE AND GABLE TO FACADE. SECOND, THE HOUSE IS ASSOCIATED WITH ADOLF ORNETTE FAMILY, FOR WHOM IT WAS BUILT IN 1909. THE WERE NETS WERE DESCENDED FROM THE ORIGINAL ALSATION SETTLERS OF CASTROVILLE, AND CONTINUED TO BE A PRESENCE IN SAN ANTONIO. THIRDLY, THE BUILDING PROVIDES A CONNECTION TO THE EARLIEST HISTORY OF THIS NEIGHBORHOOD, HAVING HELPED SET THE STANDARD FOR HOUSING WHEN IT WAS CONSTRUCTED. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY OF SAN ANTONIO. THAT'S THE ONLY SPEAKER WE HAVE. SO NOW WE CAN HAVE THE OWNER'S REPRESENTATIVE, AND IF YOU'LL JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND TO THE RECORD, UM, THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT. GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, HONORABLE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. I'D LIKE TO STATE, UH, FIRST OF ALL, MY NAME IS JOSE GALLEGOS. I RESIDE AT TWO 14 WEST ACADEMY, PROUD, UH, RESIDENT OF DISTRICT FIVE IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. I'D LIKE TO CONGRATULATE, UH, THE NEW MEMBERS TO THE COMMISSION SINCE MY LAST, UH, APPEARANCE BEFORE THE COMMISSION, AND, UH, WISH YOU WELL. AND, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR DESIRE TO SERVE, UH, THE GREAT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AS A FORMER, UH, ZONING COMMISSIONER AND, UH, PLANNING COMMISSIONER MEMBER. UH, THIS IS, I THINK THE, UH, THE THIRD APPEARANCE, UH, UH, FROM YOUR TRULY, UH, BEFORE THIS BODY. UH, UH, THE INITIAL ONE WAS, UH, WAS, UH, UH, RESCHEDULED, UH, IN LIGHT OF, UH, SOME, UM, MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES AND INFORMATION THAT WAS BROUGHT TO LIGHT TO THE COMMISSION. UM, THE SECOND, UH, HEARING WAS HELD AND, UH, THE COMMISSION REPRESENTED, UH, OR, UH, DECIDED ON APPROVAL OF THE DESIGNATION. I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS SOME QUESTION, UH, FROM THE LEGAL STAFF TO, TO REVISIT THE, UH, THE ISSUE. FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO, UH, PRESENT TO YOU IT WAS CORRECT. UH, AS FAR AS, UH, THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY, I REPRESENT MR. HECTOR OBANDO, WHO IS THE CURRENT PROPERTY OWNER, WHO IS A, UM, A MEDICAL DOCTOR PHYSICIAN IN HOUSTON, TEXAS. AND, UH, ORIGINALLY PURCHASED THE PROPERTY, AS YOU CAN SEE, FOR WELL OVER A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS WITH, UH, HIS INTENT OF GOOD FAITH TO REHAB THE STRUCTURE AND, UH, AND THEN, UH, EITHER [00:30:01] SELL IT OR LEASE THE STRUCTURE, UH, IN A REHAB, UH, CONDITION. HOWEVER, ONCE HE, UH, AND, AND, AND CERTAINLY, UH, IN ALL TRANSPARENCY IN ALL, UH, TRUTHFULNESS, I BELIEVE THAT MY CLIENT DIDN'T DO, PERHAPS HIS, HIS DUE DILIGENCE IN THE, IN THE, THE PURCHASE AND THE, UH, SECURING OF THE PROPERTY. UH, I DO LIKE TO STATE THAT IT WAS NOT DESIGNATED AND IT WAS NOT, AGAIN, I REPEAT WAS NOT, UH, BEING MARKETED AS A HISTORICAL STRUCTURE. HAD THAT BEEN THE CASE, UH, MY CLIENT WOULD'VE NOT PURSUED AND SPENT, UH, WELL OVER A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS IN THE PURCHASE OF THIS PROPERTY, UH, AS AN INVESTMENT FOR THIS. UH, SECONDLY, I'D LIKE TO STATE, AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE, UH, PREVIOUS, UH, SPEAKER, UH, REPRESENTING THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY AS TO THE HISTORY, UH, OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, UPON MY PERSONAL, UH, RESEARCH, AND IN LIGHT OF ALL THE DUE DILIGENCE THAT UNDERTOOK, UH, TO FULLY REPRESENT MY CLIENT, I, UH, UH, DISCOVERED THAT IN FACT, THE HISTORICAL, UH, DESCRIPTION IS INACCURATE AND UNTRUE. UH, HE WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. I'VE DISCOVERED TWO PREVIOUS OWNERS TO THE STATED, UH, ORIGINAL OWNER AND DEVELOPER OF THE, UH, SUBJECT PROPERTY. IN FACT, UH, I'M NOT SURE THAT HE EVEN RESIDED AT THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. SO THE FACT THAT, UM, WE'RE USING, UH, THE NAME OF, UH, UH, PERHAPS AN EARLY SETTLER, UH, TO SAN ANTONIO TO QUALIFY FOR A DESIGNATION OF HISTORICAL, UH, PROPERTY, I THINK IS, IS CERTAINLY MISLEADING AND, UH, MISREPRESENTED IN THIS CASE. SECONDLY, THE, THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE, AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, THE FACADE, UH, IS, IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT WAS AT ONE TIME. AND IT'S NOT THE ORIGINAL, UH, FACADE. I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT. THE CONCRETE SLAB WAS ADDED, UH, LATER, UH, FROM THE ORIGINAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROPERTY. UH, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THERE IS A BRICK VENEER, UH, IN THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, UH, THAT HAS SINCE DETERIORATED AND HAS FALLEN OFF FROM THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE. UH, AND THAT IS DUE TO SOME, UH, STRUCTURAL DESIGN FLAWS. AND, UM, UH, IN FRONT OF YOU, I BELIEVE YOU WERE HANDED A CERTIFIED SEALED LETTER FROM A, UM, UM, LICENSE ENGINEER THAT ADDRESSES, UH, THE ISSUE OF THE INTEGRITY OF THE, OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. UH, THE ENGINEER SPEAKS TO THE CONTINUED DETERIORATION OF THE PROPERTY. THE CONTINUES TO BE, UH, LEFT UN, UH, UNATTENDED AND, UH, QUITE FRANKLY, CONTINUE TO, UH, DEVALUE, UH, THE PROPERTY. AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT, UH, THE, THE CURRENT OWNER BOUGHT THE PROPERTY IN GOOD FAITH. HE BOUGHT IT WITH THE INTENTIONS TO REHAB IT. UH, HOWEVER, UPON, UH, SECURING THE SERVICES OF LICENSED ENGINEERS AND ARCHITECTS AND CONTRACTORS DISCOVERED THAT THE PROPERTY HAD UNDERGONE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF NOT ONLY ADDITIONS, AND THE LETTER SPEAKS TO AT LEAST THREE. AND THERE'S POSSIBLY FOUR ADDITIONS TO THE SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT WERE DONE AFTER THE INITIAL CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROPERTY. AND IF, UH, IF YOU'LL NOTE IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF THAT LETTER, UH, AND I WON'T BORE YOU WITH READING THAT YOU HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU, BUT IT SPEAKS TO, AGAIN, THE CONTINUED, UH, DETERIORATION OF THE SOIL, UH, AND THE FOUNDATION OF THE PROPERTY, WHAT THE CONTRACTORS, THE ARCHITECT AND THE ENGINEER DISCOVERED IN FACT, THAT THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROPERTY HAD BEEN SEVERELY COMPROMISED. UH, THE FOUNDATION WAS COMPROMISED, THE ROOF WAS COMPROMISED, UH, AND IT CONTINUES TO BE COMPROMISED. UH, YOU'LL [00:35:01] NOTICE, AND IF I MAY, UM, AND I, I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER THE CASE, I DON'T, I HAVE SEVERAL PHOTOS THAT I'D LIKE FOR YOU TO, TO AT LEAST CONSIDER. AND, UH, IF YOU CAN REFER TO THEM, UH, ONE OF THEM IS THE ROOF, PLEASE, AND JUST TO GET AN IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. YES, THAT, THAT PARTICULAR ONE WITH THE ROOF, IF YOU CAN JUST, UH, MAYBE, UH, THERE YOU GO. THAT IS JUST ONE, UH, EXAMPLE OF THE, OF THE CONDITION OF THE ROOF. IF YOU'LL SHOW ANOTHER, MAYBE NUMBER FOUR, THAT WOULD BE, UH, ANOTHER ONE. AND, AND THIS IS JUST, I, I'D LIKE TO JUST POINT OUT THAT THIS IS NOT THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT ALUMINUM WINDOWS WAS NOT, UH, WERE NOT EVEN CONSTRUCTED OR MANUFACTURED BACK IN 19, UH, OH 5, 19 0 9, 19 20 PERHAPS. UH, SO THAT'S A NEW ADDITION. AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO STATE THAT THERE HAS BEEN AT LEAST FOUR, UH, ADDITIONS TO THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. UH, ANOTHER SLIDE, PLEASE. UH, THAT IS ALSO, AGAIN, THE CONDITION OF ONE OF THE, UH, THE STEPS THERE, UH, AND THAT I'M SHOWING HOW THIS WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL, UH, STEPS OR FACADE LEADING INTO THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. ANOTHER SLIDE, PLEASE. YOU'LL NOTICE THE, THAT IS THE CORNER STRUCTURE. THERE, YOU'LL SEE THE COLUMN THAT IS, UH, ATTACHED TO THE, UH, EXTERIOR FACADE. YOU NOTICE THAT, UH, SEVERE DETERIORATION, NOT ONLY OF THE FOUNDATION, BUT ALSO OF THE ACTUAL PORCH, WHERE YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THAT, UH, BRICK IS, UH, COMING OFF THE, UH, THE STRUCTURE. YOU'LL NOTICE, UH, ON THE MID, UH, RIGHT HAND CORNER, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT ABOUT A, UH, TWO FOOT, UH, EXTERIOR THERE, UH, MADE UP OF A BRICK THAT HAS SINCE FALLEN OFF AS A RESULT OF TIME SINCE WE FIRST, UH, SOUGHT THE APPROVAL, UH, IN ALL GOOD FAITH FOR THE DECISION THAT WAS MADE TO DEMOLISH THE PROPERTY. AND, UH, SINCE THAT TIME, ALL OF THAT FACADE HAS BEEN, UH, FALLING OFF. UH, IT, IT FELL OFF AS A RESULT OF WEAR AND TEAR AND JUST THE CLIMATE CONDITIONS IN SAN ANTONIO. AND AGAIN, THE INFERIORITY OF THE, UH, OF THE PORCH. ANOTHER SLIDE, PLEASE JUST, UH, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, JUST RUN THROUGH 'EM QUICKLY SO WE CAN SEE. UH, THAT ONE JUST SHOWS THE INTERIOR WHERE THE ROOF IS DAMAGED. ALL THE, UH, THAT IS, IT USED TO BE THE, UH, ONE OF THE INITIAL ROOMS, UH, YOU NOTICE THE INTEGRITY. YOU CAN SEE THAT THAT USED TO BE THAT WINDOW AND DOOR THAT USED TO BE THE EXTERIOR, UH, OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. AND THAT'S BEEN COMPROMISED. YOU CAN NOTICE HERE THAT THAT IS NOT THE ORIGINAL, UH, CEILING. THIS WAS AN ASBESTOS CEILING THAT WAS, UH, ERECTED, UH, DURING THE, UH, USE OF THE PROPERTY. ANOTHER SLIDE, PLEASE. UH, AGAIN, THIS IS ANOTHER ADDITION TO THE PROPERTY. UH, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT, UH, AGAIN, THE, THE CEILING WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL CEILING. THIS IS ANOTHER ADDITION. YOU'LL NOTICE A TREMENDOUS DROP, UH, TO THOSE WINDOWS TOWARD THE REAR OF THE, UH, OF THE PHOTO WHERE THAT IS, UH, A 20 DEGREE, UH, DROP, UH, ON THAT, UH, THAT FLOOR THERE, THAT'S, UH, A PHOTO OF THE, UH, UH, THE AC UNIT THAT WAS INSTALLED. AGAIN, UH, POINT OUT TO THE, UH, UH, THE CEILING STRUCTURE THERE THAT HAS BEEN COMPROMISED. SOME OF THE DEBRIS THAT CONTINUES TO FALL, UH, INTO THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AS A RESULT OF THE DAMAGED ROOF. THAT'S A, UH, A CARPORT THAT USED TO BE, UH, TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. UH, THE TREE THAT IS, UH, HAS, HAS BEEN, UH, UH, FALLEN AS A RESULT OF, UH, WINDS AND, UH, POSSIBLE TORNADO, UH, LIGHT TORNADO OR SOMETHING THAT'S ALSO, UH, ANOTHER PHOTO OF THE EXTERIOR PROPERTY, SOME OF THE NEW DEVELOPMENT AND CONSTRUCTION IN THE AREA. OKAY. UH, AND THEN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE, UH, INTENT TO PRESERVE THIS [00:40:01] AREA, I'D LIKE TO NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT IN A HISTORICAL DISTRICT. ONE, IT'S NOT IN A CONSERVATION DISTRICT. TWO. AND, UH, UH, AGAIN, UH, THE OWNER STRONGLY OPPOSES ANY DESIGNATION OF, UH, HISTORIC, UH, DESIGN, UH, UH, FOR THIS PROPERTY. HIS INTENT AT THIS POINT, UH, UPON LEARNING, UH, AND DISCOVERING TO, TO HIS DISAPPOINTMENT WAS THAT, UH, THAT TREMENDOUS INVESTMENT THAT HE MADE IN GOOD FAITH, YOU KNOW, TO REHAB A SUBJECT PROPERTY, UH, WAS, WAS FOR NAUGHT. UH, AND NOW AT THIS POINT, HE IS, UH, LEFT WITH THE SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING AS BEST HE CAN, UH, AND, UH, WILLING TO PUT IT IN THE MARKET. UH, CERTAINLY IF THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY IS, IS, UH, INTERESTED IN THE PROPERTY, WE'D LOVE TO NEGOTIATE WITH THEM. AND, AND, AND HOPEFULLY THEY CAN PURCHASE THE PROPERTY. WE'D LOVE TO SELL IT TO YOU. AND THEN YOU CAN PRESERVE THE PROPERTY AND INVEST, UH, OVER A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS TO REHAB THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, TO BRING IT TO ITS ORIGINAL STATE. UH, WITH THAT, I CONCLUDE MY PRESENTATION, AND I'LL BE AVAILABLE FOR HER, UH, THE ANSWER OF ANY QUESTIONS AND ALSO BE PREPARED FOR A REBUTTAL. THANK YOU, SIR. UM, I DID ATTEND A SITE VISIT BEFORE, UH, THIS COMMISSION, UH, RECOMMENDED DESIGNATION, UH, PREVIOUSLY. AND, UH, YES, THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH THE PROPERTY. UH, THE CONCRETE PORCH AND BRICK SKIRTING ON THE FRONT IS NOT ORIGINAL. UM, AND THE ADDITIONS ON THE REAR ARE NOT ORIGINAL. UM, AND, BUT THERE WAS, UM, I FELT A LOT OF HISTORIC FABRIC STILL, UH, EXISTING IN THE PROPERTY, UH, BOTH INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR. AND, UM, I STILL SUPPORT, UH, DESIGNATION AND SENDING MR. CHAIRMAN, I, I CONCUR WITH EVERYTHING YOU JUST SAID. UM, I ATTENDED A SITE VISIT. IT WAS, UNFORTUNATELY WE WEREN'T ABLE TO GET INTO THE BUILDING ON THAT SITE VISIT, BUT I WAS CERTAINLY ABLE TO WALK AROUND IT. AND I THINK, UM, THE CORE OF THE BUILDING HAS, UH, RETAINED A, A GREAT DEAL OF HISTORIC INTEGRITY. THE ADDITIONS ARE OBVIOUSLY, UH, VERY DETERIORATED AS, AS PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE HERE. AND I WOULD BE, NOW, LET ME, LET ME CORRECT YOU. NOT THE APPLICANT REPRESENTED. YOU'RE NOT REP REPRESENTING THE, SORRY, PARDON ME. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THESE PROPERTY OWNERS REPRESENTATIVE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YES, SIR. I MISSPOKE MYSELF. THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS THE APPLICANT IN THIS CASE. THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT TO ME. I APPRECIATE THAT. UM, SO, UH, WITH THAT, I WOULD SAY I WOULD, UH, MOVE FOR RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OF HISTORIC LANDMARK FOR DESIGNATION OF TWO 14 LOTUS, BASED ON FINDING A SECOND, I HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND FOR APPROVAL. ANY DISCUSSION? CAN I JUST, UH, COMMENT? YES, JIM, JUST FOR THE, UH, OWNER. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, ON THE RECORD, AS WE ALSO DID LAST TIME, WE LAST TIME DECIDED THAT IT HAD HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT A LOT OF PARTS OF THIS PROPERTY ARE ADDITIONS AND, AND A LOT OF IT HAS BEEN DONE IN A LATER DATE. AND ALL THAT WHICH IS NOT ORIGINAL, CAN BE REMOVED OR CHANGED, UH, IN A MUCH INEX EXPENSE. SO I, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU ALSO CONVEY THAT MESSAGE TO THE OWNER AND YOU CAN TALK TO STAFF ABOUT WHAT'S ORIGINAL AND WHAT'S NOT ORIGINAL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IF I QUESTION, MAY I ASK A QUESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES. UH, WHO WILL BE MAKING THE DETERMINATION AS TO WHAT WAS THE ORIGINAL, UH, PART OF, UH, THE PROPERTY THAT IS NOW BEING CONSIDERED AND I PRESUME, UH, DECIDED TO BE DESIGNATED AS HISTORICAL? UH, BECAUSE AGAIN, THERE'S STILL QUESTION AS TO, UH, UH, WHAT, UH, IS, UH, LEFT WITH SOME DEGREE OF INTEGRITY, UH, AND HAS NOT BEEN COMPROMISED. ONE AND TWO, WHAT IS IN FACT, UH, THERE'S STILL QUESTION AS TO WHAT IS HISTORICAL AND WHAT IS NOT. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE, UH, JUST, UH, UH, SOMEONE'S BE SOMEONE'S DECISION. YEAH, JUST LIKE ANY LANDMARK, UM, IN THIS CASE, UM, A HISTORIC ASSESSMENT COULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF. SO STAFF WOULD REVIEW IT AGAINST HISTORICALLY AVAILABLE INFORMATION SUCH AS SANBORN MAPS. UM, WE WOULD COMPARE THOSE BUILDING FOOTPRINTS AND HOW IT CHANGED OVER TIME. [00:45:01] AND STAFF CAN USUALLY MAKE A DETERMINATION ABOUT WHICH ADDITIONS WOULD BE CONSIDERED NON-CONTRIBUTING AND ELIGIBLE FOR REMOVAL. UM, IF WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE, THEN WE CAN ALWAYS REFER THOSE BACK TO THE COMMISSION, BUT THERE IS A PROCESS FOR, FOR HI HISTORIC LANDMARKS FOR DOING JUST THAT. MR. CHAIRMAN? YEAH. UH, I, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE MAKER OF THE MOTION IF MAYBE THERE'S SOME WAY TO, UH, ADD JUST A LITTLE BIT OF LANGUAGE THAT GIVES THE, THE, UH, UH, OWNER A LITTLE EXTRA CONFIDENCE. AND THAT STAFF IS CLEARLY, UH, GONNA FOLLOW, YOU KNOW, THE, I, I I APPRECIATE THAT, BUT THIS IS A, A ZONING OVERLAY, A HISTORIC ZONING OVERLAY. SO THE ENTIRE PROPERTY, IT WILL BE CONSIDERED HISTORIC. ANY, ANY FUTURE TREATMENTS TO CAN BE, UH, MORE CAREFULLY STUDIED WITH O H P, WITH PROFESSIONAL CONSULTANTS AND BROUGHT BEFORE H D R C? THAT'S CORRECT. I'D LIKE A CLARIFICATION. MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU INDICATED THAT IT'S AN HISTORICAL OVERLAY AT THIS TIME, OR IT'S BEING CONSIDERED TO BE INCLUDED IN A HISTORICAL OVERLAY DISTRICT BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN A HISTORICAL OVERLAY DISTRICT NOW. NO, THIS IS, THIS IS A ZONING OVERLAY TO THIS SPECIFIC PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO THIS, THE MOTION BEFORE US IS RECOMMENDING THAT IT GO TO ZONING FOR THAT HISTORIC DESIGNATION, THAT HISTORIC OVERLAY. SO WE HAVE A MOTION. A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU SIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [B-12 20-1698 Address/Description: 4007 S FLORES ST/Toudouze Building HDRC Case No.: 2020-018 Applicant: Office of Historic Preservation Request: Recommendation for historic landmark designation City Council Dist.: 3] ITEM B 12 ON THE AGENDA, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 2020. SORRY ABOUT THAT. UH, H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 18 4,007 SOUTH FLORES STREET. THE TODOS BUILDING OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS REQUESTING A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION REGARDING DESIGNATION OF THE PROPERTY AT 4,007. SOUTH FLORES STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE HISTORIC AND DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATION OF 4,007 SOUTH FLORES BASED ON FINDING A, UM, COMMISSIONERS. AGAIN, WE HAVE ONE SPEAKER AND THEN WE'LL CALL THE OWNER UP. UM, VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE, VIRGINIA VAN CLEVE, 91 18 FAIRLAND, SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS, REPRESENTING THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY. THE CONSERVATION SOCIETY CONCURS WITH THE O H P STAFF RECOMMENDATION FOR A FINDING OF HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE FOR 4,007 SOUTH FLOORS. THE 1926 TOUC BUILDING. THE BUILDING RETAINS ITS HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES, DESPITE BEING OBSCURED BY PAINT AND SIGNAGE. THE BUILDING REPRESENTS AN IMPORTANT CHAPTER IN SAN ANTONIO HISTORY AS IT WAS CONSTRUCTED BY AC DUCE WHO HAD A SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE ON THE COMMERCIAL HISTORY OF SAN ANTONIO IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY. ARCHITECTURALLY THE BUILDING UTILIZED CAST, CONCRETE AND BRICK TO CREATE A SPANISH ECLECTIC VARIATION ON THE PREVALENT COMMERCIAL STYLE. THE SECOND FLOOR ORIGINALLY HOSTED THE COMMUNITY CENTER TO DECE HALL AND ITS LOCATION AT FLORES IN PLEASANTON IS AN ESTABLISHED AND FAMILIAR FEATURE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE CONCUR WITH THE OFFICE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION THAT THE BUILDING MEETS FOUR OF THE CRITERIA FOR LANDMARK DESIGNATION. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, THE CONSERVATION OF SAN ANTONIO, PATTY Z'S PRESIDENT. NOW WE CAN HAVE THE OWNER, MARK GRANADOS, EXCUSE ME. UM, THEY DID, IF THEY'D LIKE TO SPEAK OR IF THEY'RE NOT LIMITED. OKAY. I THOUGHT I WAS LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO THE PROPERTY IS NOT HISTORIC. IT'S NEVER BEEN HISTORIC. IT'S NOT IN HISTORIC DISTRICT. UH, WHEN WE BOUGHT IT, WE DID ALL OUR DUE DILIGENCE. THERE WAS NEVER ANY MENTION. MR. GRANADOS, CAN YOU POINT YOUR MIC UP FOR US? THANK YOU. OH, I COULD JUST YELL LOUDER. OKAY. UH, WE DID OUR DUE DILIGENCE. WE BOUGHT IT 'CAUSE IT HAD C THREE ZONING, WHICH WE WERE LOOKING FOR. THERE WAS NEVER ANY TALK ABOUT THIS BUILDING BEING HISTORIC. THE BUILDING HAD BEEN VACANT FOR EIGHT YEARS PRIOR TO OUR BUYING IT. OKAY. SO WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE CRITERIA FOR BEING HISTORIC, YOU HAVE TO MEET THROUGH THE 16. WE DON'T THINK IT MEETS ANY OF 'EM. AND I HAVE A LETTER FROM MARK NEVILLE, WHO IS A REGISTERED AI ARCHITECT WHO REFUTES WHAT STAFF SAYS RELATIVE TO THE ARCHITECTURAL. IT IS NOT SPANISH ECLECTIC. THIS IS FANTASY ECLECTIC. AND I'LL LEAVE THIS FOR YOU. OKAY. [00:50:01] THIS IS SPANISH ECLECTIC. THIS BUILDING IS NO WAY SPANISH ECLECTIC PLUS ANYTHING THAT MAY HAVE BEEN INTERESTED HAD BEEN COVERED UP YEARS AGO. SO ON THE MERITS OF THE ARCHITECTURAL WHOSE OPINION MATTERS MORE A REGISTERED A I A ARCHITECT OR STAFF WHO ARE NOT ARCHITECTS, THAT, THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION. I THINK. SECONDLY, IT STATES, ONE OF THE CRITERIA THAT IT MET IS THAT IT'S UNIQUE AND SIGNIFICANT IN A WAY, UNIQUE TO THE PROPERTY. AND TO THAT POINT, IT SAYS IT WAS BUILT AT THIS LOCATION IN 1923 AND REMAINS AT THIS LOCATION TO TODAY. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE SAYING IT'S UNIQUE AND SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THE BUILDING HASN'T MOVED. IF THAT IS A CRITERIA, THEN YOU JUST MADE 99.999% OF SAN ANTONIO HISTORIC. IF YOU SAID IT HAD MOVED FAIRMONT HOTEL, THEN YOU COULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT IT MOVED AND IT HAD SOME HISTORICAL STUDENTS FOR BEING MOVING. BUT TO SAY THAT A BUILDING DIDN'T MOVE IN A HUNDRED YEARS MAKES IT HISTORIC, IS MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE BECAUSE IT'S NOT UNIQUE AND SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT WOULD APPLY TO EVERY BUILDING IN SAN ANTONIO. AND ON THE LAST ITEM, RELATIVE TO THE OO FAMILY, SEVERAL THINGS ARE BROUGHT UP. ONE IS THE, UH, COMMUNITY CENTER. IT WAS A COMMUNITY CENTER FOR 13 YEARS. SO TO HAVE SOME HISTORIC SIGNIFICANCE, IT HAS TO HAVE SOME TEST OF TIME. OTHERWISE YOU COULD SAY GEORGE WASHINGTON SLEPT HERE AND EVERYTHING THAT HE SLEPT IN WOULD BE HISTORIC. IT HAS TO BE SOME FABRIC. HOW WAS IT WOVEN INTO THE COMMUNITY? IT WAS THERE FOR 13 YEARS. OKAY, SO SINCE 1939 TO THE DATE, THERE WAS NO COMMUNITY CENTER. OKAY, RELATIVE TO THE TUDOS FAMILY, I TRACKED DOWN WILSON TUUS, WHOSE FAMILY ACTUALLY OWNED THIS LOCATION. THIS IS A FAMILY THAT, THAT HISTORIC THINKS IS SO, YOU KNOW, HISTORICAL, THEY SUED THEM AT BUENA VISTAS IN CONCERT COST THE FAMILY $500,000 IN LEGAL FEES. SO SOME DAYS THEY'RE GOOD PEOPLE, SOME DAYS THEY'RE BAD PEOPLE. AND WHY DO WE WANT TO SAY THE TWO DO'S NAMES MAKES IT HISTORIC BECAUSE THEY OPERATED A BUSINESS, A FAILED BUSINESS. BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION, THE BUSINESS FAILED. SO IF WE'RE GONNA SAY FAILING AT BUSINESS MAKES YOU HISTORIC, THEN WE NEED TO GO BACK AND EVERY FIRST MATE SEAFOOD, EVERY HANDY DAN, EVERY HANDY ANDY, EVERY SCOOTERS, EVERY FOX PHOTO, EVERY BUSINESS IN THE CITY THAT FAILED THEN BECOMES ITS TO UNDER THAT CRITERIA. SO WE DON'T THINK IT MEETS ANY OF THOSE CRITERIA. OKAY? YOU CAN HAVE THAT. OKAY, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PROPERTY AS IT SITS TODAY. THE PROPERTY SITS LIKE THAT AND IT SAT LIKE THAT FOR EIGHT YEARS. IT WAS NEVER A MENTION OF HISTORIC WHEN IT SAT HERE FOR EIGHT YEARS WITH SIGNS ON IT. IT WAS NEVER MENTIONED HISTORIC. WHEN THE TUDOS CLOSED, THERE WASN'T A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT IN THE PAPER THAT THE, HIS, THE TODOS BUILDING, IT'S IN 19 TWO, WAS CLOSING. AND WE NEED TO MAKE A HISTORIC EVENT OUT OF IT. THIS IS SIMPLY A REACTION BECAUSE WE WANTED TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE BUILDING. OKAY? SO RIGHT NOW, AS IT STANDS, BECAUSE OF THIS, UH, PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN STARTED AGAINST OUR WISHES, THIS IS WHAT YOU GET. THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION ON SHANNON MILLER'S PART THAT SHE CAN MAKE ME DO THINGS SHE CAN'T. ALL SHE CAN MAKE ME DO IS DO NOTHING BECAUSE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT HER PERMISSION. AND I'M NOT GONNA ASK FOR PERMISSION. I DON'T THINK I HAVE TO. SO THIS IS WHAT STAYS TILL THE END OF TIME. OKAY? SO HOW DO YOU DO SOMETHING WITH THIS BUILDING? STAFF TALKS ABOUT ALL THEIR EXPERTISE. AND WHEN YOU ASK THEM, THEY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING. THEY'VE NEVER DEVELOPED A BUILDING. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW THE U D C. WHAT YOU SEE RIGHT HERE IS CALLED A CONTINUOUS CURB. IT'S NOT ALLOWED. I HAVE 11 PARKING SPACES FOR 20,000 SQUARE FEET. NOT ONLY DOES IT NOT MEET ANY OF THE BUILDING CODES OR ALLOW ME TO GET A CO, I COULDN'T EVEN PARK THE EMPLOYEES IF I COULD FIND A USE FOR IT. SO LET'S SAY, LET'S START TALKING ABOUT THE U D C. WHEN YOU COME OFF A COMMERCIAL STREET, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A 20 FOOT THROW TO DENTES, I HAVE 20 FEET ON EACH SIDE. THE PROPERTY AT THAT POINT'S ONLY 40 FEET WIDE. I CAN'T EVEN GET THE THROAT IN. YOU SIMPLY WOULD HAVE A THROAT CUTTING ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY. SO THE OTHER THING THAT THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED IS THAT THE A D A IS A FEDERAL REGULATION. IT TRUMPS CITY AND STATE STATUTE AND THE BUILDING WILL NEVER MEET ANY TYPE OF A D A CERTIFICATION. WE DON'T HAVE, UH, THE, THE PATH TO SAFETY. WE DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET BATHROOMS IN THERE. WE CAN'T PARK IF I DON'T HAVE ANY PARKING, I CAN'T PROVIDE A D A PARKING, WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT. SO STAFF YESTERDAY IN ZONING TALKED ABOUT, OH NO, YOU CAN DO SHARED PARKING WITH THIS WITHIN 600 FEET AND ALL THESE WONDERFUL THINGS AND WE'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO DO IT BECAUSE WE KNOW MORE THAN YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 40 YEARS. AND EVEN THOUGH MIKE SHANNON AND ROD SANCHEZ WILL TELL YOU, WITHOUT A DOUBT, I KNOW MORE ABOUT REHAB AND THESE TYPE OF PROPERTIES AND URBAN IN INFOS IN SAN ANTONIO THAN ANYBODY [00:55:01] ELSE. I'VE DONE MORE OF 'EM. SO WHERE IS THE SHARED PARKING? YOU THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN GET IT. THIS GUY ACROSS THE STREET. GUESS WHAT? MY LEFT HAND OWNS THAT. AND WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF FILING A DEEDED RESTRICTION ON THAT PROPERTY TO PREVENT ANY SHARED PARKING OR CROSS PARKING TILL THE END OF TIME. SO YOU HAVE NO WAY TO REHAB THE BUILDING. OKAY, SO LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT. THIS IS DISGUISED DOWN ZONING CASE COUNCIL ONE. VERAN DENIED ME A CAR WASH PERMIT ON GOLDHEAD ROAD. SHE'S DOING THIS TO DENY ME A CAR WASH PERMIT HERE WHEN WE REZONED THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE STREET. HER AID CHRIS VILLA CONSTANTLY. WHAT ABOUT THE NORTH SIDE? WHAT ABOUT THE NORTH SIDE? OWNED BY A DIFFERENT GROUP. IF WE WOULD'VE AGREED TO HAVE DOWN ZONE THE NORTH SIDE TO C TWO FROM C THREE, THIS NEVER WOULD'VE COME UP. OKAY? SO THIS IS SIMPLY, SHE DOESN'T WANNA DO A DOWN ZONE 'CAUSE SHE THINKS IT'LL MAKE HER LOOK BAD. SO SHE COMES WITH THIS PLAN. SO HERE'S A SOLUTION. I DON'T BELIEVE IN COMPROMISE. I COULDN'T SPELL THE WORD, BUT I CAME UP WITH ONE. WHY DIDN'T THE RECOMMENDATION BE THAT THIS GETS ROLLED INTO A JOINT ZONING CASE WHERE WE'LL AGREE TO LET THIS BUILDING BE DEEMED HISTORIC AND THE CITY REZONES A LIKE AMOUNT OF LAND AREA HALF AN ACRE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE STREET TO C THREE. THAT WAY YOU CAN HAVE YOUR HISTORIC BUILDING. I'M NOT SAYING I'M GONNA DO ANYTHING WITH IT AND I CAN HAVE MY 50,000, MY MY HALF ACRE OF LAND ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE THREE ZONE C THREE FOR A CAR WASH AND EVERYBODY WINS. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BEST COMPROMISE YOU'LL EVER SEE SOMEBODY MAKE. AND WHEN WE OFFER THAT TO BE A GRAND C SAID NO. THAT RIGHT THERE TELLS YOU THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BUILDING BEING HISTORIC. 'CAUSE I SAID I'D GIVE IT TO HER. SHE JUST DOESN'T WANT A CAR WASH FOR SOME REASON. I CAN'T FIGURE OUT. SO LET'S CALL THIS FOR WHAT IT IS. WE'VE OFFERED A COMPROMISE, A VERY FAIR COMPROMISE. I TAKE MY ZONING HERE, MOVE IT ACROSS THE STREET. I'LL LET YOU DEEM IT HISTORIC. I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH FEAR I CAN BE. OKAY, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THAT TYPE OF COMPROMISE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD APPROVE HERE OR ANYTHING, RIGHT? CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THIS RECOMMEND, THIS BOARD, THIS BODY TODAY WILL RECOMMEND HISTORIC LANDMARK, WILL GO TO ZONING AND ZONING MAY BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT TYPE OF COMPROMISE. SO THAT IS NOT THE ITEM BEFORE YOU TODAY. TODAY IS AN ISSUE REGARDING HISTORIC DESIGNATION, WHICH IS A ZONING OVERLAY. AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE ZONING CASE. THAT IS, THAT'S UP FOR DISCUSSION. NOW IF THERE'S A SEPARATE DISCUSSION ABOUT REZONING ANOTHER PROPERTY THAT WOULD REQUIRE EITHER AN APPLICATION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER OR RESOLUTION BY CITY COUNCIL AND IT DOESN'T COME TO H T R C. YES SIR. I WOULD TAKE EVERYTHING THAT STAFF TELLS YOU WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. WE WERE HERE BEFORE AND MS. MILLER DID NOT WANT ME TO TALK ABOUT PROCESS. AND ONE OF THE THINGS I BROUGHT UP IS THAT HER ORIGINAL APPLICATION WAS FAULTY 'CAUSE SHE DIDN'T INCLUDE FILING FEES. AND SHE SAID, NO, NO, NO, NO AND WOULDN'T LET ME TALK ABOUT IT. YOU'LL NOTICE THE CITY RESOLUTION SAYS WE WILL WAIVE THE $1,800 OF APPLICATION FEES. I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. I KNOW THE ORDINANCE BETTER THAN SHE DOES. WE CAN DO A JOINT CASE. MR. CHAIR. I, UM, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION, UH, FOR MOVING THIS ONTO THE ZONING COMMISSION, UH, UH, RECOMMENDING A MOTION TO APPROVE. A MOTION TO APPROVE. BUT I ALSO WOULD ADD THE, THE COMMENT THAT GOING TO THE ZONING COMMISSION, THE ZONING COMMISSION MIGHT BE THE MORE APPROPRIATE, UH, PLACE FOR THAT DIALOGUE. SINCE THE DIALOGUE THAT THE APPLICANT IS TALKING ABOUT IS WITH RESPECT TO REALLY ZONING AS A WHOLE. UM, BECAUSE WHAT I HEAR IS SOME LANGUAGE, UH, IT'S MORE PROACTIVE THAN LANGUAGE LAST TIME. BUT I THINK THAT, UH, THERE, THERE REALLY ISN'T ANY, UH, WAY TO LOOK AT THE BUILDING ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER WAY THAN, THAN IS VERY ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT. SO MY MOTION IS, UH, UH, FOR, FOR THE APPLICANT POINT OF ORDER CHAIR CAN YES, THE ISSUE BEFORE THE THE COMMISSION IS WHETHER OR NOT TO APPROVE DESIGNATION. WHAT IS, CAN YOU CLARIFY YOUR MOTION? IT WILL, WILL, UH, AND I'M LOOKING FOR THE RIGHT PAGE HERE JUST TO READ IT RIGHT OFF OF HERE AS IT IS. UM, BUT, BUT IT'S MOTION, UM, FOR APPROVAL OF LANDMARK DESIGNATION. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY [01:00:01] AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAYYY. MOTION PASSES. [B-13 20-1688 Address/Description: 707 DAWSON ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-727 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Haley Serna/Open Studio Architecture Request: Construction of a multi-story, mixed use structure City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 13 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 19 7 27 7 0 7 DAWSON, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A TWO STORY MIXED USE BUILDING ON THE LOT AT 7 0 7 DAWSON LOCATED WITHIN THE DITY HILL. HISTORIC DISTRICT STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL BASED ON FINDINGS A THROUGH V WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATED THE PROPOSED SECOND STORY SETBACK PROPOSED AND OPTION B INTO THE FIRST STORY IS NOTED IN FINDINGS I AND M TWO, THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATED ADDITIONAL FENESTRATION INTO BOTH THE NORTH AND EAST FACADES. THREE THAT THE APPLICANT EXPLORE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS TO METAL FOR THE ROOFTOP STRUCTURES SUCH AS BRICK OR STUCCO. FOUR, THAT THE PROPOSED METAL WINDOWS FEATURE AND APPROPRIATE INSTALLATION DEPTH SEAL AND HEAD PROFILE IS NOTED IN FINDING P FIVE THAT ALL MECHANICAL AND SERVICE EQUIPMENT BE SCREENED FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS NOTED IN FINDING T SIX THAT ALL PARKING BE SCREENED AND BUFFERED FROM VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS NOTED IN FINDING SS AND SEVEN THAT THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED DETAILED LIGHTING PLAN WHEN RETURNING FOR FINAL APPROVAL. IS NOTED IN FINDING V I HAVE, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT BUT WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT FIRST. ALL RIGHT, GOOD AFTERNOON. UM, I'M, UH, EDDIE HERNANDEZ WITH UH, OPEN STUDIO ARCHITECTURE. I'M THE APPLICANT. UM, IN CONTRAST TO THE PREVIOUS PRESENTATION, WE AGREE WITH ALL THE STIPULATIONS, SO I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO REALLY SAY. UH, WE'LL HAVE, UH, CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. YEP. VALERIE CORTEZ, VALERIE CORTEZ AT 5 0 8 LAMAR, UM, HERE REGARDING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH REGARDS TO THE PROPERTY AT 7 0 7 DAWSON, WE SUPPORT OH P'S RECOMMENDATION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF STIPULATION I THAT THE OPTION B SETBACK OF THE SECOND STORY BE CONTINUED INTO THE FIRST STORY. THE BUILDING MASS IS CONSISTENT WITH OTHER SMALL COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS FOUND THROUGHOUT THE DITY HILL AND IS A GOOD FIT FOR THE LOCATION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THE APPLICANT WOULD COME BACK PLEASE. QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM THE I'LL, I'LL MAKE A COMMENT FROM THE LAST D R C. THE LAST D R C, UM, I THINK IS REFERRED TO IN THE FIRST STIPULATION THAT THE SECOND TO STORY BE SET BACK NEAR THE, ON THE FIRST SIDE, NEAR THE ADJACENT HOUSE. TALKED ABOUT PUSHING THAT BAY BACK. YEAH. AND UH, IT HAS BEEN PUSHED BACK. CAN I GET CLARIFICATION ON STAFF AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT MEETS STIPULATION ONE? UH, SO, UM, STAFF SPECIFICALLY WAS ASKING FOR BOTH THE FIRST AND SECOND STORY OF THE BAY, UM, THE FAR EASTERN BAY. UM, SO IT WOULD INCLUDE THIS HIGHLIGHTED PORTION HERE TO BE SET BACK. UM, THAT IS WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO, UM, TO MEET STAFF STIPULATION. UM, SO ESSENTIALLY THIS SECOND PORTION RIGHT HERE, THIS BAY ON THE FIRST FLOOR WOULD BE ELIMINATED. CAN I ADD SOMETHING TO THAT? SO WE WOULD MATCH THE SECOND FLOOR, BUT I, WE DO WANT TO TRY TO KEEP SOMEWHAT OF A BALCONY THERE IF THAT'S ACCEPTABLE. UM, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD OBSTRUCT ANY VIEWS. I THINK IT WOULD STILL PRESERVE THAT KIND OF SETBACK, UM, NOTE. UM, BUT HE WOULD STILL LIKE TO HAVE PEOPLE STEP OUT ONTO THAT, THAT BALCONY IF, IF THEY CAN KEEP THAT ELEMENT. THIS IS FOR CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. IN MY OPINION, THE NATURE OF THE STIPULATION WOULD ALLOW FOR A LESS, LESS, UH, I DON'T KNOW, SEVERE SETBACK THERE THAT COULD ALLOW FOR A BALCONY AND, AND UH, THAT CAN BE PRESENTED DURING THE, ALRIGHT. UH, MOTION FOR APPROVAL, UM, WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND MOTION A SECOND. UH, ANY DISCUSSION? ONE QUESTION. WELL, THIS IS CONCEPTUAL BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE APPLICATION CAME IN OR IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT FINAL. I MEAN, THERE'S NO REASON. IS THERE A REASON WHY IT'S, WHY IT'S NOT FINAL [01:05:02] CONCEPTUAL, ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT IT CAME IN AS A CONCEPTUAL, THE APPLICANTS, THE APPLICANT SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. OKAY, WELL THANK YOU. I I JUST APPRECIATE THAT THE, THE DRAWING IS, IS VERY TELLING I HAD TO TAKE IT PRETTY FAR TO GET THE, PRETTY MUCH IF WE GO INTO CDS, I'LL JUST RUN WITH THAT . SO THAT'S KIND OF A PLUS I GUESS ON THE BACK END. BUT YEAH, MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANKS EVERYONE. [B-14 20-1703 Address/Description: 403 N HACKBERRY ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-017 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Mario Crosswell Request: Installation of front and side yard fencing City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B B 14 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2 2 0 1 7 4 0 3 NORTH HACKBERRY. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL A FRONT YARD SIDE FENCE WITH THE SETBACK. PEDESTRIAN GATE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE FENCES INSTALLED BASED ON FINDING B FINDINGS B THROUGH E. A SOLID PRIVACY FENCE MAY BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY IF IT IS SET IN THE REAR YARD, WHICH FOR THIS PROPERTY IS DEFINED BY THE SECOND FRONT-FACING FACADE PLANE APPLICANT. HERE PLEASE. WE DO HAVE, UH, PUBLIC COMMENT. HELLO? YES. UM, I CAME HERE ON, ON, UM, DECEMBER 4TH. INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE. SO, OH, SORRY, I APOLOGIZE. MY NAME IS MARIO CROSWELL. I'M THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. I CAME, UH, BEFORE YOU ON, UH, DECEMBER 4TH AND THE CASE WAS REFERRED TO WHAT YOU CALL THE DESIGN REVIEW COMMISSION. I MET WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH, UH, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. HE REVIEW EVERYTHING AND HE MADE A SUGGESTION TO ME TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE, WHICH I, I AGREED. AND, UM, AND THEY TOLD ME IT NEEDED TO GO BACK TO, TO THE COMMISSION. UH, WE HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD AND THEN WE'LL ASK YOU BACK UP. YEAH. THANK YOU SIR. VALERIE CORTEZ, VALERIE CORTEZ RESIDING AT 5 0 8 LAMAR HERE REPRESENTING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DNE, WITTY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH REGARDS TO 4 0 3 NORTH HACKBERRY. WE STRONGLY SUPPORT O HP'S RECOMMENDATIONS THEY NEED TO KEEP TO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CHARACTER. THANK YOU. OSWELL, COULD YOU COME BACK? THANK YOU. DID A REPORT FROM THE SIDE VISIT. SO THIS IS, UH, THIS TURNED OUT TO BE TRICKIER, UH, OF AN ISSUE THAN I THINK, UH, REALIZED BEFORE WE SENT THIS TO THE D R C. THERE ARE TWO PROPERTIES THAT THIS FENCE SPANS ACROSS. UH, ONE OF THE PROPERTIES IS ON A CORNER AND THE REAR YARD, IF WE COULD PULL UP THE PHOTOGRAPH OF, OR WE CAN SEE THAT CORNER WITH THE WRAPAROUND PORCH AND THE GATE AT THE TR THAT IMAGE, BUT WITH THE FENCE. OKAY. WHERE WHILE WE'RE LOOKING AT IT, THE LONG AND SHORT OF THE, THE FENCE SPANNING BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES IS THAT IT IS IN THE SAME PLANE AS THE FRONT ELEVATION, WHICH IS THE LETTER OF THE LAW. THE ISSUE, THE ISSUE WITH THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION THAT IT BE PUSHED BACK, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE, THE SOLUTION IS THAT THAT FENCE BE PUSHED BACK, UH, EVEN A FEW INCHES TO BEHIND THAT COLUMN. IT WOULD MEET THE REQUIREMENT BUT THEN THE FENCE WOULDN'T HAVE A PROPER RESOLUTION AT THE PORCH ELEMENTS. SO THE WAY THE FRONT, THE WAY THE ELEVATIONS ACTUALLY ALIGN WITH EACH OTHER AND A CONDITION BETWEEN FRONT AND SIDE YARD. THE SOLUTION, UH, THAT, UH, WE DISCUSSED IN THE D R C IS AS BEING, UH, A POSSIBLE APPROPRIATE SOLUTION IS ONE THAT LEAVES AND THIS IMAGE YOU SEE IN THE MIDDLE, AND WE'RE LOOKING AT THE TALLER FENCE ELEMENT HERE. YOU CAN SEE THREE SEGMENTS THERE. SO THE SOLUTION WAS TO LEAVE THE TWO LEFT SEGMENTS, REMOVE THE RIGHT SEGMENT, SO THAT THAT REAR YARD SITUATED FENCE [01:10:01] THEN TURNS BACK ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE AND THEN TURNS BACK INTO THE ADJACENT PROPERTY BEHIND THE, UH, AIR CONDITIONING UNIT THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE. UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE TALKED ABOUT, I, I'M SORRY, CAN, CAN MAYBE STAFF FOLLOW WITH POINTING WITH A MOUSE OR SOMETHING? POINTERS WOULD HELP, WOULDN'T THEY? THIS IS NOT THERE ANY LONGER. RIGHT? ALL THIS IS GONE. SO WHAT, SO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE, IS THE TALLER FENCE IN THE BACKGROUND. THESE THREE PANELS IS ONE, TWO, AND THREE. THIS ONE IS ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY LIKE FISH OR FISH MENTIONED. SO THIS ONE SHOULD GO AWAY AND BE MOVED HERE. A AND THEN THE DOOR THAT WAS HERE, HE RECOMMENDED TO PUSH IT BACK THE WINDOW, WHICH IS, SO IT'S A COMPROMISE OF CONDITIONS IN THIS CASE THAT MADE IT THIS DIFFICULT TO FIND A, A REASONABLE SOLUTION. AND THE REASONABLE SOLUTION FROM MY POSITION WAS, BUT WE TALKED ABOUT THAT LAST TIME. UM, IS THERE A FINAL DRAWING OF THIS? DO YOU, DID YOU BRING A FINAL DRAWING OF THIS OPTION? YES, I SUBMITTED, BROUGHT, OKAY, SO THIS IS ON THE 4 0 3, WHICH IS THE CORNER THAT IS THE, SO THIS DOOR PUSH IT FROM HERE FARTHER IN TO GO TO THE WINDOW. AND THEN IF YOU SEE THE DRAWING OF THE OTHER HOUSE THAT IS HERE, IF YOU SEE THIS PANEL IS GONE, NOW, THERE'S NO RED HERE BECAUSE HE'S SUGGESTING WAS TO PUT IT HERE. SO IT TAKE OUT THIS AND PUT IT HERE. SO THE, SO THE REAL NATURE OF THE ISSUE IS THERE, ONE OF THESE IS A CORNER PROPERTIES WITH MULTIPLE FRONTS, LIMITED REAR YARD. THE, THE ONE THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN IS CLEARLY HAS A FRONT FACING AND THE FENCE SHOULD NOT BE THERE. SO, UH, WE'RE KIND OF RETTING TWO ISSUES. UM, WHAT WASN'T DISCUSSED, UH, WERE IN THE IMAGE. YOU SAW THE SHORTER FENCES T-SHAPED IN THE FRONT. THOSE ARE GONE. THOSE WERE NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION, NOR WERE THEY PART OF THE SOLUTION. UH, NOR WAS ON THE IMAGE YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN. THE, THE FENCE ELEMENT THAT WE SEE ON THE FAR RIGHT, THAT WASN'T PART OF WHAT WE DISCUSSED. THAT SHOULDN'T BE THERE. THAT SHOULD BE PUSHED BACK PAST THE PLANE OF THE DOES DOES THAT CLEAR? IS IT BEFORE OR, UM, AFTER THE TREE BEHIND IN THAT RIGHT SIDE OR IN BETWEEN BOTH PROPERTIES HERE? FROM THE PICTURE HERE, IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU MOVE IT BEHIND THE COLUMN, IT WOULD BE RIGHT ON THE TREE. NO, THERE ARE, THERE IS A FENCE THAT'S RUNNING THE FULL LENGTH OF THE PROPERTY LINE BETWEEN THE PROPERTIES THAT IS ON, UH, IN THIS CASE, THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE TREE. AND THAT WASN'T, UH, DISCUSSED AS BEING RELOCATED. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT. THE, UM, I I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT IN WHAT DECISIONS FELLOW COMMISSIONER'S MAKING. 'CAUSE I, I CAN UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITY OF THE SOLUTION BECAUSE I'VE DRIVEN THROUGH THERE MANY TIMES THAT HAVE KIND OF LOOKED AT THAT AND HAVE BEEN VERY AWARE OF THE PROBLEM THAT WAS CREATED RIGHT BY THE, BY THE, UH, INNOVATIVE WAY THAT THE HOUSES ARE DONE MANY TIMES. GREAT INNOVATION. AND THEN THERE'S AN SOMETHING THAT HAS TO COME AFTERWARDS AND IT, IT DOESN'T FIT JUST AS A COMMENT, NOT, NOT, NOT IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. UM, UM, UH, I DON'T WANNA LIMIT THE, THE, UH, THE SOLUTION THAT, THAT, THAT IS RECOMMENDED BY FELLOW COMMISSIONER HERE. BUT I DO THINK THAT THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM IS A VISUAL PROBLEM, UH, WITH THIS NEW WAY OF LOOKING AT HORIZONTAL FENCES VERSUS VER VERTICAL MEMBERS. AND JUST IN THE FUTURE, AS YOU WORK THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THE YEARS OF, OF THIS OR, OR SUGGESTIONS TO WHOEVER YOU SELL TO THAT, UH, I SEE A CONTRAST DIFFICULTY WITH COLOR AND THE DIRECTION OF THE WOOD MEMBERS, PARTICULARLY THAT THE WOOD MEMBERS ARE FLAT AND YOU KIND OF EXPECT TO SEE SOMETHING AT THE TOP HAPPENING, RIGHT? THOSE JUST A COMMENT. UH, I DON'T WANNA, UH, UH, PUSH IT ANYWHERE OTHER THAN WHERE IT NEEDS TO GO. AND I AGREE 100% WITH YOU. I DON'T KNOW WHY MOST OF THE NEW FENCES ARE BEING BUILT HORIZONTAL INSTEAD OF VERTICAL, UH, WHEN YOU VISIT ALL THE NEW CONSTRUCTION GOING ON. I DON'T KNOW WHY IT BECAME A TREND JUST TO DO HORIZONTAL INSTEAD OF VERTICAL. WELL, I WAS GONNA COMMENT ON THAT AND, AND I CANNOT FOLLOW, UH, COMMISSIONER OF ALASKA, THERE'S TWO THINGS. [01:15:01] WHY KEEP, WHY THAT NOTCH? WHY CAN'T THE FENCE BE BEHIND THE, OKAY, SO IF YOU LOOK IN THE CURRENT IMAGE, THERE IS A SLIDING GLASS DOOR THAT IS THE PRINCIPLE ACCESS TO THE REAR YARD. PUSHING IT BACK INTERFERES IN A WAY THAT THE FENCE IS NOT ALLOWED TO RESOLVE WITH THE ARCHITECTURE. THE PROBLEM THAT OCCURRED HERE WAS ON THE ORIGINAL DESIGN APPROVAL WITHOUT A RESOLUTION TO THE FENCING, THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DESIGNED OUT IF IT WAS THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE CONSTRUCTION OF THE HOUSES HAPPENED, IT COULD'VE BEEN AVOIDED, BUT, WELL, I, THE FENCE IS NOT SO EXPENSIVE. SO I MEAN THAT NOTCH GOING SO THAT THERE'S, SO PUSHING IT BACK FOUR TO SIX INCHES, REMOVING THE STRUCTURE, MODIFYING THE THING, JUST PUSHES IT INTO THE REAR YARD ACCESS AND DOESN'T REALLY, IT DOESN'T REALLY BENEFIT THE SPIRIT OF THE GUIDELINE. AND HAVING IT PUSHED BACK AS, UH, FROM THE FRONT PLANE PUSHING THE GATE TO THE BACKSIDE OF THE COLUMN VERSUS IN LINE WITH THE COLUMN SEEMED TO GIVE A VISUAL BREAK FROM THAT FACE. BUT PUSHING THE WHOLE THING BACK ALSO WOULD, BUT IT, IT CREATES AN ALIGNMENT. IT CREATES, IT CREATED OTHER PROBLEMS. WELL, I JUST SEE THAT IT WOULD ACTUALLY ALSO CREATE ALIGNMENT WITH THE OTHER POLE TO THE RIGHT, WHICH I MEAN THEY DON'T, THERE KIND OF SOME, MAYBE THAT WHICH ISN'T AN APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR THAT FENCE SEGMENT TO BEGIN WITH. SO, UM, AND THEN MY OTHER SUGGESTION WAS ALSO I THINK WAS, I DON'T KNOW IF SOMETHING THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMENT ON IS, UM, MAYBE MAKING IT MORE TRANSPARENT. MY ONLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE COMMENT OF THE MATERIALS OF THE FENCE AND IS THE FENCE WE'RE REVIEWING IS NOT A FRONT YARD FENCE. IT IS A SIDE YARD FENCE, FRONT YARD FENCES, AND THE ELEMENTS THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN AS PRESENTED THAT HAVE BEEN REMOVED AND NOT, NOT CONSIDERED APPROPRIATE, THAT'S WHERE IT LOOKS JARRING. AND THAT'S NOT PART OF THIS AS A SIDE YARD FENCE. I FIND THAT THE INSTALLED CONDITION TO BE APPROPRIATE AND JUST, UH, IF, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH IS, UH, GONNA MAKE A MOTION, I WOULD SECOND THAT MOTION . OKAY. LET ME, LET ME, LET ME TRY. THE DRAWINGS THAT ARE SUBMITTED THAT SHOW THE FENCE LINE IN THE GATE POSITION ARE, UH, VERY PRETTY ACCURATE, ACCURATELY REFLECT WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE. SO I THINK I CAN MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL BASED ON THE DRAWINGS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. SORRY FOR ALL THE TROUBLE. I WILL NEVER DO A PER UM, HORIZONTAL FENCE ANYMORE. AGENDA [B-15 20-1695 Address/Description: 418 MISSION ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-033 Historic District Name: King William Applicant: SCHEFF DENIESE M & CRITTENDEN ROBERT JR Request: Window installation within a rear addition, front porch restoration City Council Dist.: 1] ITEM AGENDA ITEM B 15 H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 3 3 4 18 MISSION, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, AMEND THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FENESTRATION PATTERN AND WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE REAR ADDITION, AND TWO, TO RESTORE THE FRONT PORCH DECK AND BALCONY SLOPE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE, THE AMENDMENT OF THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FENESTRATION PROFILE AND WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS UNLESS OTHERWISE APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION. THE WINDOWS ON THE REAR ADDITION SHOULD MEET THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS PRO FINDING C. THE RAISED SEAL HEIGHTS, UNEQUAL SASH SIZES, FULL LIGHT CONFIGURATIONS, FROSTED GLASS AND NAILING FINS ARE DEPARTURE FROM THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS AND THE ORIGINALLY APPROVED CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO PORCH AND BALCONY RECONSTRUCTION BASED ON FINDING D WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. ONE THAT THE FRONT PORCH AND BALCONY FEATURE ONE BY THREE INCH TONGUE AND GROOVE WITH DECKING INSTALLED PERPENDICULAR TO THE FRONT FACADE PLANE. AND TWO, THAT THE BALCONY FEATURE FEATURES A SUBTLE SLOPE, TRADITIONAL WOOD RAILING AND MATCHING COLUMNS AND DECKING TO THAT OF THE FIRST FLOOR PORCH. THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. HELLO, I'M DENISE. CHEF CRITTENDEN, OWNER OF 4 1 8 MISSION. DID HAVE A SITE VISIT OUT THERE. UH, COMMISSIONER CARPENTER, COULD YOU MAKE A REPORT? UH, YES, IT'S BEEN SOME TIME, BUT WE DID, UH, GO OUT TO THE SITE AND REVIEW THE EXISTING CONDITIONS, UM, PARTICULARLY LOOKED AT THE POSSIBILITY OF, OF TRYING TO, UM, UM, UH, AMELIORATE THIS A BIT WITH, UH, THE USE OF SCREENS, UM, AND ALSO MADE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON, UH, RE RESTORING THE SILLS TO THEIR [01:20:01] ORIGINAL HEIGHT, UM, TO, TO A LINE ON THE ELEVATIONS. THERE WAS, I'M NOT SURE, A CON TOTAL CONSENSUS ON HOW TO ADDRESS THE BAY WINDOWS THAT WERE PROJECTING OUT ON THE, ON THE REAR. AND SO I HOPE WE CAN HAVE A, A FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT TODAY. MRS. WE DO ALSO HAVE A SPEAKER. UM, SO LET'S HAVE THE SPEAKER AT THIS TIME AND THEN WE'LL CALL THE APPLICANT BACK UP FOR FURTHER QUESTIONS. MARGARET LEEDS. THANK YOU. MARGARET LEEDS, RESIDE AT 3 0 8 KING WILLIAM 7 8 2 0 4, AND I'M HERE REPRESENTING THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE. UH, THERE ARE SOME PHOTOS WE WOULD LIKE TO PROJECT, UM, AND BEFORE READING THE LETTER FROM THE COMMITTEE, UH, THIS HOUSE DID HAVE APPROVAL FOR, UM, REHAB IN 2016. DID WE SEE THE DIAGRAM FIRST? AND THIS WAS WHAT WAS PROPOSED AND APPROVED BACK IN 2016. AND THEN THE NEXT ONE, CODE FIRST, NOW THAT ONE. AND HERE WE SEE THE HOUSE, UH, IN THE CONDITION. IT WAS IN 2016 WHEN THAT CHANGE WAS PROPOSED. AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CURRENT CONDITION OF THE HOUSE WITH WORK DONE WITHOUT APPROVAL BY THE CURRENT OWNER, COULD WE SEE THAT AT NEXT ONE? YOU CAN SEE HOW THE WINDOWS SIZES HAVE BEEN CHANGED, THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE. UM, THERE HAS BEEN AN ATTEMPT TO HIDE THIS WITH SCREENS, WITH ONE EXAMPLE SHOWING, UM, THERE'S ANO ANOTHER ONE, UH, THAT, THAT HAS THE, UH, WOOD AROUND. THEY HAVE PLACED A WOOD FRAME AROUND THE WINDOW. THE, THE WHITE IN THE MIDDLE HERE, WHICH IS MY, I DON'T SEE A RED BUTTON. THANK YOU. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO PLACE A, A WOODEN FRAME AROUND THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN AND A SCREEN THERE TO MASK WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE BUILDING. UM, AND NOW READING FOR THE ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE, THE KING WILLIAM ASSOCIATION ARCHITECTURAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE REVIEWED THIS PROJECT AND STAFF FINDINGS AS DOCUMENTED BY THE O H P STAFF. THIS IS ANOTHER CASE OF AN APPLICANT ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS FOR WORK LACKING PRIOR APPROVAL. WINDOWS ARE SUCH AN IMPORTANT FEATURE IN OUR HISTORIC STRUCTURES. WE CANNOT ACCEPT THESE COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, EVEN IF DISGUISED BY SCREENS, THEY'RE THE WRONG MATERIAL, THE WRONG SIZE, THE WRONG PROFILE IN THEIR POSITION IN THE WALL IS, IS CHANGED NOW. NOTHING ABOUT THEM IS REMOTELY CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. ALL THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH THE WOODEN WINDOWS PROPOSED AND APPROVED FOR THIS PROPERTY IN 2016. THANK YOU. THAT'S TIME. THANK YOU. YES, I WAS THERE TOO AT THE, OH, YES, THE APPLICANT BACK PLEASE. SORRY. UM, I WAS AT THE MEETING AS WELL. UM, AND IT IS KIND OF A DIFFICULT CASE BECAUSE, UM, I KNOW WE DON'T LIKE WHEN APPLICANTS DO WORK OUT A PERMIT. WE HAVE DISCUSSED AND, AND TALKED WITH THE APPLICANT, UM, AND SHE, I MEAN, THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT WAS, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO YOUR CONTRACTOR, WAS THAT, UM, YOU DOING THE, THE MOCKUP IS SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE MEETING. YOU ARE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE SOME ISSUES LATER ON BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT THE WINDOWS HAVE BEEN INSTALLED. HAVE YOU TALKED TO YOUR, UH, CONTRACTOR? HOW ARE YOU GONNA DO IT? UM, WELL, WHEN HE MOCKED UP THAT WINDOW, HE ACTUALLY PUT INSULATION ON THE SIDE AND THEN WRAPPED THE WINDOWS WITH THIS, UH, IT'S A TAPE OF SOME SORT, UM, AND WRAPPED ALONG THE SIDE ALL THE WAY AROUND, SO, [01:25:04] SO I, YEAH, THERE'S ONLY ONE WINDOW, RIGHT? THAT'S MOCKED UP, RIGHT? YES. YEAH. YES, ONLY ONE. OKAY, BECAUSE I, I, I JUST, I JUST WANT JUST NOTE, THE LAST TIME THAT THEY WERE HERE, THEY MENTIONED TO US THAT IT, IT WAS A MOCKUP. IT WASN'T AN ATTEMPT TO HIDE IT, IT WAS CORRECT. THAT'S WHY THERE'S ONLY ONE DONE, RIGHT? NO, WE WENT, WE WENT AND SAW IT AND WE WENT AND SAW AND, AND, AND I THINK IT WAS WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR. IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE SILL AND THE WIDTH AND ALL THAT. UM, AND I DO THINK THE APPLICANT HAS ADDED TO THE PACKAGE THE WHOLE WINDOW SCHEDULE. SO SOME OF THE WINDOWS WILL BE RESTORED SPECIFICALLY ON THE FRONT, UH, THE FRONT, THE FRONT SIDE ELEVATIONS AND THE FRONT, UM, ON THE FRONT PORCH AND UP, SORRY, UPSTAIRS. UM, AND THEN, UM, WE TALKED ABOUT ON THE, I GUESS IT'S THE SOUTH WEST. YEAH, I THINK STAFF WILL FIND THE DRAWINGS IN A MINUTE, JUST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE APPLIC, BOTTOM OF THE APPLICATION. YES. TO BE CLEAR, UM, THE WINDOWS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE ALL TO AN ADDITION. SO THIS IS A REVISION TO AN APPROVED ADDITION. UM, CLARIFICATION ON THE WINDOWS TO BE INSTALLED. THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS ON THE ORIGINAL PORTIONS OF THE HOUSE ARE BEING REPAIRED RES CORRECT, RESTORED, RESTORED TO THEIR ORIGINAL CONDITION. AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT CHANGING THE BAYS, BUT FOR NOW, YOU'RE GONNA KEEP THE BAYS. YEAH, I PURCHASED THE HOUSE WITH THE BAYS. AND SO, UM, RIGHT NOW WE'RE, WE JUST HAVEN'T MADE A DECISION. UM, I THINK WE MAY BE COMING BACK TO YOU WITH, BECAUSE WE HAVE THOSE TWO BACK HOUSES THAT WE LOOKED AT. UM, AND WE'RE LOOKING TO HIRE AN ARCHITECT RIGHT NOW TO, TO DO, UH, POSSIBLY SOMETHING WHERE WE ATTACH ON THE ONE SIDE. SO THOSE BAYS WOULD PROBABLY GO AWAY AT THAT TIME ANYWAY. UM, THEY'RE NOT, BUT THEY WEREN'T, THEY DIDN'T LOOK VERY SAFE, WAS IT? WE SAID, RIGHT. I, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURALLY SPEAKING, UM, UH, THERE'S GONNA BE A FRAMING, UM, UH, REVIEW, I GUESS WITH THE CITY. UM, AND THEY WILL LOOK AT IT THEN AND PASS IT OR FAIL IT. AND SO UPON THAT REVIEW, UM, WE'LL REVISIT THAT. ARE YOU, UM, OKAY WITH THE STIPULATIONS ON THE PORCH? I'M SORRY, EXCUSE ME? YOU AGREED TO THE STIPULATIONS ON THE, FROM THE PORCH STAFF STIPULATIONS LY, UH, YEAH, I, I ACTUALLY WANTED, I ACTUALLY SUBMITTED TO REDO THE PORCH BECAUSE IT'S NOT DONE CORRECTLY AND IT'S ROTTING AND, UM, THERE'S NO MEMBRANE ON THE TOP, UH, UPSTAIRS. UM, AND THE ANGLE ISN'T CORRECT, SO WATER IS SITTING, SO IT'S, IT, IT WASN'T DONE APPROPRIATELY IN THE FIRST PLACE. UM, THE RAILS AS WELL, THEY'RE UNSTABLE AND THEY NEED TO BE REDONE. SO THAT, THAT IS AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION IN MY MIND, THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THE WINDOWS, UM, THAT ARE IN THE ADDITION. AND, UM, WHILE IT'S NOT IDEAL THAT THEY DIDN'T CONFORM WITH THE, THE, UH, ORIGINAL PROPORTIONS OF THE WINDOWS IN, IN THE REST OF THE HOUSE, I, I THINK THAT'S WHERE I MIGHT SEE SOME ROOM FOR, FOR BUDGING ON THIS. AND, UH, WITH THE, UH, THE ADDITION OF THE SCREENS TO HELP CONCEAL THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT THE MATERIALS THAT, THAT YOU'D WANT TO HAVE IN THERE. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT, THAT THE FACT THAT IT'S ON THE ADDITION IS, UH, UNFORTUNATE THAT WE'VE COME TO THIS POINT, BUT IT IS A, UH, ONE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCE. AND WITH THE ADDITION OF WOOD SCREENS THAT, UH, WE DID TALK ABOUT THE, THE DIMENSIONS OF THE SCREENS MATCHING THE HISTORIC, UH, SCREENS, SO THE, UH, RAILS AND THE, THE SIDES WOULD MATCH THE DIMENSIONS OF THE EXISTENCE AND JUST ENCOURAGING THE, THE, UH, THE APPLICANTS TO WORK WITH THEIR CONTRACTOR TO, UH, GET A PROPERLY WATERPROOFED STRUCTURE. UH, FROM WHAT WE SAW, THERE WAS SOME CONCERNS THAT THERE MAY BE SOME ISSUES. CORRECT. SO THE 12, THE, THE THREE WINDOWS ON EACH FLOOR ON EACH SIDE, THE ONES THAT I'M, THAT I CAN SEE IN THE, UH, ON, UH, SLIDE NINE, THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE, UH, IN MY MIND THE MOST IMPORTANT. YES. AND ON THE ADDITION TO THE REAR, AND THEY'RE STACKED, SO THAT'S 12 WINDOWS, AND THESE ARE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, CORRECT? CORRECT. UM, WE CAN JUMP TO THE MOCK-UP AGAIN REAL QUICK. THERE, THERE ARE ELEMENTS OF THIS THAT WORRY ME. SO [01:30:01] YOU HAVE 12 WINDOWS IN THE SIDES. THEY'RE ALREADY PURCHASED AND INSTALLED, CORRECT? OR AT LEAST ON SITE. UM, CERTAINLY WOULD BE BEST IF THEY WERE IN THE RIGHT MATERIAL, BUT THEIR, THEIR REDUCED HEIGHT AND THE, THE WAY THIS IS ATTACHED, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE OVERCOME THE SUCCESSFULLY IN TERMS OF A WATERPROOFING AND LONGEVITY, UH, ISSUE. YEAH, WE, WE CAUTIONED THAT, UH, IT APPEARED AS THOUGH, I MEAN, TO MY OPINION, UH, THOSE WINDOWS WOULD HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND TOTALLY RETHOUGHT ON HOW THEY WOULD BE FLASHED INTO THE EXISTING INCLUDE AND PROBABLY INCLUDES, UH, REMOVAL OF, OF THE SIDING ADJACENT TO THE WINDOWS TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY FLASH BEHIND THE SIDING. UM, SO WE, WE ADVISE THE, THE APPLICANT ON THAT. IT IS, IT'S FULLY HER CONTRACTOR'S, UH, RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THAT, UH, HAPPEN. I AM ACTUALLY LITIGATING WITH HIM RIGHT NOW, SO, OKAY. I, I MEAN NOT, THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY. YOU, YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH THE RIGHT WINDOWS. WE DID TALK ABOUT TWO BY FOUR INSTEAD OF ONE BY FOUR, SO IF WE DID ASK FOR THAT, YES. SO, UH, TO PERHAPS SPEAK TO SOME OF, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH'S CONCERNS ABOUT THE MOCKUP, THERE WERE, UH, TWO, TWO BY, OR SORRY, TWO ONE BY MATERIAL THAT WAS STACKED TO CREATE THAT. AND, UH, WE SAID THAT'S PROBABLY MOST LIKELY GOING TO FAIL TO LAMINATE, CRAWL OFF THE WALL ONCE, UH, IT, IT DETERIORATES AND SUGGESTED USING TWO BY MATERIAL JUST TO HAVE THE THICKER CROSS SECTION FOR A MORE, UH, DURABLE, LONG LASTING SOLUTION. YEAH, I, I'M SORRY, I'M, I'M JUST GONNA SPEAK TO THE RAISING THAT SILL LEVEL. UM, I THINK THAT YOU, WHENEVER WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE, THESE PICTURES IN GROUPS OF THREE, WE DON'T RECOGNIZE THE IMPACT THAT THAT'S GONNA HAVE IN THE GROUP OF 12 ON THAT FACADE. I THINK IT'S GONNA BE, UH, AND WE MAY HAVE A PICTURE OF, OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE CURRENTLY, BUT I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THAT SILL HEIGHT. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, COMMISSIONER FISH HAS IT RIGHT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WENT WITH THE RIGHT SIZE WINDOW, I KNOW YOU WOULD MITIGATE A LOT OF THESE TERRIBLE ISSUES THAT ARE COMING ABOUT WATERPROOFING, UM, SEAL MATERIAL, ALL OF THESE, THESE ITEMS ARE COMING FROM THAT, TRYING TO SOLVE THAT OTHER PROBLEM. UM, SO IF YOU CAN FIND A WAY TO FIND THE RIGHT SIZE WINDOW, EVEN IF IT'S NOT THE RIGHT MATERIAL WITH THE WOOD SCREENS AS AN ALTERNATIVE, I THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING I COULD SUPPORT. BUT THE CURRENT SILL HEIGHT IS NOT SOMETHING I CAN GET BEHIND. I TO MAKE A MOTION ON THIS, AND I'M HOPING THAT YOU COULD FIND REDRESS WITH YOUR, UH, WITH YOUR CONTRACTOR. UM, I MOVE, UH, FOR, UH, DENYING ITEM ONE AS PER STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION AND APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO AS PER WITH, UH, STAFF STIPULATIONS. SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, SO THE APPLICANT THEN COMES TO STAFF WITH AN ALTERNATIVE WINDOW TO WHAT'S INSTALLED. UM, IF THE COMMISSION WERE TO GIVE US DIRECTION ON WHAT TYPE OF WINDOW STAFF COULD APPROVE ADMINISTRATIVELY, UM, THEN WE'D BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THEM WITHOUT HAVING TO COME BACK. UM, AS THE MOTION STANDS, PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING THAT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH THAT OLD APPROVAL WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK. AND THE OLD APPROVAL WAS FOR WOOD WINDOWS, CORRECT? YES, THE ORIGINAL SIZE. UM, I'M JUST WORRIED THAT THIS IS NOT REALLY ALSO IN THE APPLICANT'S INTEREST. UM, I THINK THE APPLICANT'S REALLY BEING COOPERATIVE, I THINK THE APPLICANT'S BEING VERY COOPERATIVE WITH US AND HAS, IS AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY WERE, THEY WERE IN THEIR INTENTIONS. UM, WE ALSO HAVE SOME MODIFICATIONS OF, UH, UPSTAIRS AND, AND I GUESS THERE'S ALSO A REASON BEHIND, RIGHT? I THINK IT WAS A KITCHEN, A BATHROOM, THERE'S SOME FROSTED GLASS UPSTAIRS, UPSTAIRS AND A BATHROOM AND A, I THINK THAT'S WHAT STAFF WANTS THE GUIDELINES ON, RIGHT? ONE OF A ONE SIZE. YEAH, I MEAN, SO THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL WAS ESSENTIALLY A WOOD WINDOW TO MATCH WHAT IS HISTORICALLY FOUND ON THE HOUSE. UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD HAVE TO ENFORCE, UM, UNLESS THERE WAS AN ALTERNATIVE WINDOW OR ALTERNATIVE SIZES THAT WERE, THAT WE SOMEHOW HAD TO DIRECTION TO, TO REVIEW AND APPROVE. YEAH, I WOULD SAY IN LIEU OF TRYING TO SPELL THAT OUT WINDOW BY WINDOW ON A PLAN, I WOULD THINK THAT IF IT'S, [01:35:01] IF WHAT THEY COME BACK WITH IS NOT CONSISTENT WITH THAT, THEN WE JUST HAVE ANOTHER HEARING ON WHAT THEY PROPOSE. I MEAN, WE, WE REVIEW THAT AGAIN AT THE COMMISSION OR AT A D R C. I THINK THAT THAT'S THE ONLY THE BEST WAY TO REVIEW THAT. SO I, I HAVE A THOUGHT THAT MIGHT JUST MUDDLE THIS WORSE, UH, FOR ADDITIONS AND, UM, NEW CONSTRUCTION, WE HAVE STANDARD LANGUAGE THAT ALLOWS ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD. I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA BE OF ANY HELP HERE. UM, AND MY, I MEAN, MY CONCERN ABOUT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE MOCKUP AND THE SOLUTION THAT SEEMS THE EASIEST TO REACH IS THAT, UH, YOU'RE GONNA REGRET IT AND WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA REGRET IT. AND THAT THAT'S, THIS ISN'T A VIABLE SOLUTION IN THE LONG RUN. SO I'M NOT AGAINST FINDING, I'M NOT AGAINST A SOLUTION TO SOLVE THIS PUZZLE, IT'S JUST THIS ANSWER IS, UH, CONCERNING. WELL, AND THE MODIFICATIONS UPSTAIRS I THINK ARE MORE, WELL, I, I A BIGGER ISSUE AND I, I WOULD AGREE WITH FELLOW COMMISSIONER IN THAT ONE, ONE PROBLEM IS WHAT, WHAT IS APPROVABLE? WHAT'S NOT WHAT MADE APPROVAL? RIGHT? BUT THE OTHER PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN WE LOOKING AT IT, THERE'S OTHER PROBLEMS AND YOU'RE GONNA END UP WITH ALL THESE PROBLEMS. UH, IT, IT MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY BE THE EASIEST THING, BUT THE, THE, WHAT YOU'RE LEFT WITH IS ALMOST A VERY DIFFICULT THING. ASIDE FROM OPINION, IF IT WOULD HELP, I COULD OFFER A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION TO INCLUDE, UM, OUR WINDOW TYPES, UM, COMMONLY, UH, APPROVED BY THIS COMMISSION ON ADDITIONS AND, UH, NEW ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, WHICH WOULD BE OF ALUMINUM CLOUD WOOD WINDOWS AS A POTENTIAL OPTION. AND I ACCEPT THAT AS A, A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION. SECOND, THE MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AGENDA [B-16 20-1718 Address/Description: 931 HAYS ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-041 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Nik VILLARREAL/JAS Development Request: Amendment to a previously approved design regarding windows, window fenestration and garage doors City Council Dist.: 2] ITEM B 16 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2 2 0 4 1 9 3 1. HAYES, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO AMEND A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DESIGN FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. WITHIN THIS REQUEST, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED THE FOLLOWING, ONE, TO INSTALL VINYL WINDOWS IN, IN PLACE OF THE APPROVED ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS TWO, TO MODIFY THE PREVIOUSLY APP APPRO APPROVED FENESTRATION PATTERN BY INSTALLING A LARGE PICTURE WINDOW ON THE WEST FACADE, AND THREE, TO INSTALL WHITE VINYL GARAGE DOORS. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE. THE INSTALLATION OF VINYL WINDOWS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT A WINDOW THAT MEETS STAFF SPENT STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS BE INSTALLED AS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO. THE INSTALLATION OF A LARGE PICTURE WINDOW IS NOTED IN FINDING. C STAFF FINDS THAT THE APPLICANT SHOULD INSTALL A WINDOW THAT IS SIZED APPROPRIATELY FOR THE DISTRICT, AND THREE STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE, THE INSTALLATION OF WHITE VINYL GARAGE DOORS. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL DOORS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE APPROVED IN THE CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS. IF THE COMMISSION FINDS THAT THE INSTALL DOORS ARE APPROPRIATE OR TO BE APPROPRIATE, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THEY BE PAINTED A DARK COLOR, HAVE THE APPLICANT FIRST, AND THEN, UH, CITIZENS TO BE HEARD. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS NICK AL, UH, FOR 9 3 1 HAYES, I AM THE, UH, CONTRACTOR FOR THIS PROJECT. LOOKS LIKE A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED APPLICATION, HAD ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS AND DIFFERENT, UH, GARAGE DOORS, AND DID NOT INCLUDE THE, THE PICTURE WINDOW. UM, COMMENTS ON HOW WE GOT THIS FAR? YES. UM, IN THE INITIAL, UH, APPROVAL PROCESS, UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING A, A BRAND OF WINDOW CALLED LINCOLN WINDOWS. AND SINCE THIS IS A, UH, A CLIENT PROJECT, IT'S NOT A, AN INVESTMENT PROJECT OR A FLIP, UH, THIS WAS A, A BUDGET CONSCIOUS PROJECT FOR THE CLIENT, FOR THE HOMEOWNER, UH, THOSE WINDOWS AND A LOT OF THE, THOSE, THAT TYPE OF WINDOW WAS NOT, UH, BECOMING FINANCIALLY AN OPTION. AND WE'RE TRYING TO BE, FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT, MAKE IT WORK FOR THE CLIENT AND STILL TRY TO FIND WAYS TO MEET, UH, INTENT OF WHAT, UH, IS BEING ASKED FOR. SO THIS WAS ACTUALLY DONE AFTER THE APPROVAL PROCESS AS WE WERE FINALIZING, [01:40:01] UH, BANK NUMBERS AND, AND THAT PROCESS. SO WE CAME ACROSS WITH THESE WINDOWS. UM, THERE WAS VERBAL COMMUNICATION, THERE WAS NO WRITTEN COMMUNICATION WITH STAFF ABOUT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THESE SITUATIONS. BUT, UH, IT WAS NEVER, I GUESS, FORMALLY SUBMITTED. AND AS WE GOT INTO THE CONSTRUCTION PROCESS, WE KEPT ON GOING DOWN, UH, THAT LINE. AS FAR AS THE PICTURE WINDOW, AGAIN, THAT WAS A CLIENT REQUEST AT THE MASTER BATH, UH, UP THERE ON THE LEFT ELEVATION, IT WAS, I BELIEVE, A, UH, 4 0 1, NO AT ONE TIME. THE AFTER THE PROCESS, THE CLIENTS WANTED A BIGGER PICTURE WINDOW WHERE THAT IS A, WHERE THEIR TUB WILL BE. UH, THEY HAVE THAT LINE REPRESENTATIVE IS WHERE THE, AFTER THE CLIENT, UH, WE HAVE CLOSED A PROJECT. IF NOT IN OUR, UH, CONTRACT, THEY WILL BE PUTTING UP A FENCE ALONG THAT SIDE OF THE RIGHT, THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PROPERTY SO THAT THAT WINDOW WILL NOT BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREETS. AND THEN AS FAR AS THE GARAGE IS CONCERNED, UH, INITIALLY IT WAS FACING MUNCIE STREET, UH, IN THE, UH, PERMITTING PROCESS. IT WAS DENIED, UH, BY COSA DEVELOP DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE IT DID NOT MEET CODE WITH THE DISTANCE FROM BEHIND THE SIDEWALK TO THE GARAGE. DOORS DID NOT MEET THAT DISTANCE. SO WE WERE FORCED TO CHANGE THE DOORS JUST FROM THE MUNCIE SIDE TO THE REAR, WHICH WE FELT DIDN'T CHANGE ANY INTENT OF THE DESIGN, THE FOOTPRINTS, WE JUST, UH, LOCATED TO THE REAR TO WHERE NOW WE HAVE, UH, PER CODE ALL THE ACCESS THAT WE NEED TO FULFILL THOSE, UH, REQUESTS. UM, AND I GUESS TO MY OWN FAULT, NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT'S A RESUBMISSION OF THAT WAS NEEDED. 'CAUSE WE DID NOT CHANGE THE FOOTPRINT OR THE INTENT OF IT. WE CONTINUED FORWARD AFTER THAT PROCESS. UH, AND, UH, FOR CLARIFICATION ON THAT, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE FINDINGS, UM, STAFF ACTUALLY FOUND THE REORIENTATION OF THE GARAGE TO BE MORE APPROPRIATE. UM, WHEREAS, YOU KNOW, GARAGE DOORS AREN'T FACING THE, THE SIDE STREET. UH, SO STAFF MOVED TO APPROVE THAT ADMINISTRATIVELY AS IT'S MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES, UM, THAN THE ORIGINAL DESIGN. UH, SO IT'S THE GARAGE DOOR MATERIAL AS OPPOSED TO THE LOCATION THAT IS CORRECT. ONLY THE GARAGE DOOR MATERIAL. THE, THE ONLY QUICKEST QUESTION OR COMMENT ON THAT IS WHEN WE WERE IN THE A THE REVIEW AND APPROVAL STAGES OF THIS PROJECT, THE, THE DOOR MATERIAL DOOR STYLE DOOR DESIGN WAS NEVER A COMMENT OR CONSIDERATION OR ANY KIND OF TOPIC OF, OF CONVERSATION. SO THAT WAS NEVER, UM, CONSIDERED OR EVEN A THOUGHT THAT FOLLOW, THERE WAS NO STIPULATION SAYING THAT IT HAD TO BE AS THE ARCHITECT, UH, PUT ON THESE DRAWINGS, WHEREAS IT WAS MORE OF JUST A, A CAD DROP IN THAN IT WAS A SPEC. WELL, THERE, THERE ARE NEIGHBORHOOD GUIDELINES AND YOUR ARCHITECT NEEDED TO BE, YOU KNOW, RESPONSIVE TO THOSE. SO DOES IT SAY THERE WASN'T A DISCUSSION? DOESN'T REALLY COVER THAT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. WELL, I MEAN, IN ANY PROJECT WE DO ALSO REVIEW MATERIALS. SO STAFF, CAN YOU CLARIFY? THERE WAS NEVER ANY STIPULATIONS IN THE ORIGINAL. WELL, TO BE CLEAR, WE REVIEW WHAT IS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT, AND SO IF THE APPLICANT TELLS US THAT THERE'S GONNA BE WOOD DOORS, THERE'S NO REASON TO COMMENT ON IT. YEAH. SO, SO NOW WE'RE COMMENTING THERE WAS A MATERIAL YEAH, YOU CAN ACTUALLY THIS DRAWING IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT AS WOOD. NO MA'AM. WE DO NOT SPECIFY WOOD GARAGE DOORS. UM, MY, MY MR CHAIRMAN, MY, UH, UH, PERSPECTIVE IS TO LOOK AT THE PROJECT AS A WHOLE AS ONE STATEMENT, AND IT'S WELL BALANCED. IT SPEAKS TO THE LANGUAGE IN THE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A, A LITERAL, UH, DUPLICATION OF ANYTHING. IT, IT MAYBE TAKES A LIBERTY WITH THE PICTURE WINDOW THAT SPEAKS TO THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE NEEDS OR DESIRES OF THAT CLIENT. SO LET'S SAY A HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW, THE STORY WILL SAY THAT THAT CLIENT WANTED A PICTURE WINDOW. THE, UH, GARAGE DOOR SEEMED VERY BALANCED. I AGREE WITH STAFF THAT THEY, THEY TURNED TO THE REAR, WHICH TO ME, UM, ALMOST INVITES MORE REASON FOR THEM TO BE A LIGHT COLOR AS OPPOSED TO A DARK COLOR. UH, THE HOUSE SEEMS TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, K KIND OF A, A VERY LIGHTHEARTED STATEMENT. IT'S A HAPPIER, UH, STATEMENT. AND WITHIN ITS BALANCE, IT, IT'S, IT, IT'S, IT'S WELL DONE. IT'S A HUMBLE, UH, IT'S A HUMBLE DESIGN AND, AND, AND, AND SPEAKING THE NEIGHBORHOODS VOCABULARY PRETTY WELL WITH RESPECT TO THE VINYL WINDOWS. IT'S NOT A NEW, IT'S NOT AN OLD HOUSE, IT'S A NEW HOUSE. AND I KNOW THAT THE TENDENCY IS TO ONLY APPROVE ANYTHING THAT IS NOT VINYL. UM, BUT I THINK THAT, UH, MAYBE THERE IS ROOM FOR US TO BEGIN CONSIDERING, UH, PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO NEW CONSTRUCTION. UH, THE VINYL WINDOW, THE, THE, THE LINES ARE REAL [01:45:01] THIN. I, I, I'M NOT A FAN OF, OF, UH, FAKE MILLIONS, BUT, UM, THEY, THEY SEEM TO, TO SIT BACK PRETTY WELL. THE, THE ATTEMPT FOR THE, UH, CHANGE IN COLOR OF THE EXTERIOR SURFACE, UM, IT SEEMS TO, TO TO WORK. SO MY TENDENCY WOULD BE TO ASK THIS COMMISSION TO, UH, LIGHTEN UP AND LOOK AT IT AS A WHOLE AND AS A NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT SPEAKS FOR THE SPIRIT OF 2020. AND IT'S A BRAND NEW HOUSE AND EVERY WINDOW IS CONSISTENT. AND IT'S A GOOD STATEMENT. IT'S AN IMPROVEMENT, UH, UH, IN ANY NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS NOT A, A POORLY DONE HOUSE. SO, UM, I WOULD DISAGREE. WE HAVE A PROCESS. SO THE APPLICANT CAME HERE, WE APPROVED A PACKAGE, IT'S A NEW CONSTRUCTION. WE HAVE DIFFERENT WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. UM, AND I THINK THE MATERIALS WERE SPECIFIED IN THAT INITIAL APPLICATION. IF THERE'S AN APPLICANT THAT COMES AND WANTS TO MAKE CHANGES, THEY HAVE TO COME TO US PREVIOUS TO INSTALL. AND I THINK THIS PROCESS IS VERY CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING. AND I THINK THAT PROCESS IS FAIRLY, UM, EASY TO, I MEAN TO COMPLY WITH, ESPECIALLY, IT IS A NEW CONSTRUCTION. UM, YOU'RE CHANGING FENESTRATION, YOU'RE CHANGING MATERIALS. I AGREE WITH STAFF ON THE, ON THE GARAGE, BUT WE'RE NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THAT GARAGE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MATERIALS, UH, OF THE GARAGE DOORS. THIS IS ON THE CORNER STREET. I DON'T THINK YOU'LL BE ABLE TO GET A SIX FOOT FENCE ON THAT STREET FACADE. I MEAN, THAT'S THE SIDE OR OF THE HOUSE, BUT IT IS A STREET. AND I THINK SO FOR FUTURE THAT WE CAN'T REALLY APPROVE SOMETHING BASED ON THAT. THE, UH, OWNER WANTS TO PUT UP A SIX FOOT FENCE IN THE FUTURE. 'CAUSE JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THE, THE APPLICANT IS REFERRING TO A FENCE. UM, THIS WOULD BE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE OF THE WEST ELEVATION. SO IT WOULD BE OPPOSITE OF MUNCIE STREET, IT WOULD BE BETWEEN A HOME, TWO HOMES? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. COULD, SO IT'S NOT VISIBLE. THE PICTURE WINDOW IS SOMEWHAT VISIBLE. UM, I MEAN, IT'S NOT ON THE FRONT FACADE, BUT IT, YOU CAN SEE IT FROM HAY STREET. I, I WOULD SAY THAT, UM, I THINK YOU'VE GONE VERY FAR WITH THE PROJECT AND I FEEL BAD, BUT I MEAN, I DO FEEL ALSO THAT, UM, THIS, IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD THERE'S A LOT OF NEW CONSTRUCTION. THERE IS A LOT OF, UH, APPLICANTS PREVIOUS TO YOU THAT HAVE ACTUALLY FOLLOWED THE GUIDELINES AND THEN GREAT PROJECTS. I THINK WE HAVE TO REALLY, UM, STAY CONSISTENT ON THAT. I WOULD, UM, PROBABLY MOVE TO DENY ITEM NUMBER ONE, APPROVE NUMBER TWO. AND, UM, AND I NUMBER THREE, IF I MAY COMMENT REAL QUICK, UM, JUST OF CURIOSITY AND AS WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS, WHEN WE WERE STUDYING AND TRYING TO FIND A, A SUITABLE WINDOW ON A STRICTLY FINANCIAL BASIS FOR THIS CLIENT, THERE, THERE ARE A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF, I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S FIVE HOUSES WITHIN A TWO BLOCK RADIUS OF THIS HOUSE UNDER CONSTRUCTION WITH WINDOWS. AND WE, WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, BUT FROM WHAT THE, UH, COMMISSION REQUEST OR ASK FOR ON ONE LEVEL OF WINDOW, ON A FINANCIAL BASIS AND TO WAY OF A BUDGETED PROJECT FOR A CLIENT, YOU KNOW, AND TRYING TO FIND THAT MEDIUM, A LOT OF THOSE WINDOWS WE FOUND WERE ON THE HIGHER SIDE OF, OF THE PRICE RANGE, OR IN THIS CASE, UH, THE COLOR SCHEME WHERE WE WEREN'T GONNA USE A DARK OR A BRONZE OR YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF A, A SURROUND, A LOT OF THESE WINDOWS THAT ARE BEING INSTALLED HAVE THAT, WHICH IS A NICE WINDOW, BUT FOR THIS COLOR SCHEME DIDN'T QUITE WORK WELL. THE THING WAS THAT YOU COULD HAVE COME TO US AND WE COULD PROBABLY HAVE APPROVED SOMETHING DIFFERENT. I THINK, UH, THERE'S TWO ITEMS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT HERE. ONE IS THE WINDOW SEAL DETAIL. IT'S NOT REALLY AS, YEAH, AS SOMETHING THAT YOU'LL FIND. MAYBE YOU CAN COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION WITH AN ADJUSTMENT TO THAT. AND THEN, UM, THE INTERIOR, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? SORRY, I BLANKED ON THE WORD. UH, YOU CAN JUST SAY THE PHOTO DIVIDED LIGHTS. SO YEAH, THE PHOTO DIVIDED LIGHTS, UM, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE COMMONLY, YOU CAN FIND VINYL WINDOWS WITHOUT THE FOUR DIVIDED LIGHTS. SO THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING, MAYBE AN OPTION. SO I MEAN, MAYBE YOU CAN COME BACK TO THE COMMISSION WITH SOMETHING ELSE, BUT AS IT IS PRESENTED AND AS IT IS INSTALLED, I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SECOND THE MOTION, HAVE THAT I, WE HAVE A MOTION [01:50:01] FOR DENIAL OF NUMBER ONE, APPROVAL OF NUMBER TWO, AND DENIAL OF NUMBER THREE DISCUSSION. WELL, I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE ONE, ONE COMMENT ABOUT IT. THIS IS A NEW CONSTRUCTION AND LET'S JUST SAY EVERYBODY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS ENOUGH MONEY TO PUT A, YOU KNOW, A WOOD WINDOW OR AN MCL WOOD WINDOW. BUT THERE IS A PROCESS THAT'S BEING CREATED AND A DIALOGUE IN THE CITY ABOUT AN EQUITY LENS, AND IT'S A DIALOGUE IN THE CITY ABOUT GENTRIFICATION AND ALL THAT. THIS IS A GOOD HOUSE, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH MY COMMISSIONER OVER HERE WITH RESPECT TO THE DETAILS THAT ARE SHOWN IN THIS SEAL DETAIL THAT'S HERE. YEAH, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT AREN'T CONSISTENT THAT ARE, THAT ARE DETAILS, BUT WITH RESPECT TO VALUE ENGINEERING AND, AND, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN JUST, JUST BEING FAIR IN HOUSING, THAT WE SHOULD ALSO HAVE, UH, UH, LEEWAY OR, OR POLICY OPINION THAT ENABLES PEOPLE THAT CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE THIS TO LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE THIS. SO IT IS A NEW CONSTRUCTION AND I WOULD JUST URGE, UH, THE, THE MOTION MAKER OF THE MOTION TO CONSIDER THE PRECEDENT THAT IS SET, BECAUSE I WANT TO JUST MAKE ONE LAST COMMENT THAT I IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME. WE JUST HEARD A CASE BEFORE THIS AND EVERYBODY HERE WAS WILLING TO, TO LET SOMEBODY USE A WINDOW THAT I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS COMMISSION APPROVE. AND I DO ASK MYSELF, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS SITUATION, WHICH IS A BRAND NEW HOUSE? AND THERE, THERE WERE NO WINDOWS HISTORICALLY, IF THIS HOUSE WAS A HUNDRED YEARS OLD AND IT HAD A PICTURE WINDOW, THAT PICTURE WINDOW WOULD BE OKAY, RIGHT? SO THIS IS A NEW HOUSE WITH A NEW PRECEDENT OF A PICTURE WINDOW. AND, UM, IT IS A WELL-BALANCED HOUSE AND IT DOES SPEAK TO THE LANGUAGE OF THAT COMMUNITY, BUT MORE, MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT, IT'S A DIRECT CONTRADICTION TO THE LAST CONSIDERATION THAT WE HAD. I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT BECAUSE IT'S VERY HARD TO GET YOUR BRAIN WRAPPED AROUND THE INCONSISTENCY IN PRECEDENT. BUT, BUT I'M ONLY ONE VOTE. I'M ONLY ONE VOTE, AND MY VOTE WON'T KILL. DID WE PASS, DID WE PASS THAT LAST? NO, WE DENIED THEM. WE DENIED. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S CONSISTENT AT ALL. WE'RE NOT BEING CONSISTENT, BUT THE DENIAL WAS BASED ON OTHER CONSIDERATIONS AND, UH, UH, THE RECORD WILL SHOW THAT WE DON'T NEED TO EVEN NEED TO HAVE DIALOGUE OF IT. IT'S THE RECORD. SHOW IT, BUT OKAY, THEN LET'S NOT, I, I, I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE THING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO CONSIDER HERE, MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER SAID IS PRECEDENT AND THE PRECEDENT THAT'S BEING SET, THE PRECEDENT THAT HAS BEEN SET, AND THE FACT THAT YOU CAME BEFORE THIS COMMISSION, YOU HAD A DECISION THAT WAS MADE AND THAT WASN'T FOLLOWED THROUGH. SO TO ME, THAT'S, THAT'S THE ISSUE. HAD IT BEEN BROUGHT BACK TO US AND SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP, WE CANNOT MEET THIS STANDARD. WE NEED TO FIND A SOLUTION THAT WOULD BE RESOLVABLE. UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE NOT THERE. SO, UM, I WOULD HAVE TO SECOND THAT MOTION. I'D LIKE TO REMIND THE COMMISSION THERE'S A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD ON THIS CASE. YEAH, I DO APOLOGIZE. I SHOULD HAVE CALLED THAT MUCH SOONER. UM, VALERIE CORTEZ AND IF THE APPLICANT JUST GRAB A SEAT. UM, WE'LL HEAR OUR SPEAKER FIRST. VALERIE CORTEZ RESIDING AT 5 0 8 LAMAR STREET, UH, HERE REPRESENTING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIGNITY, WHITTY HILL HISTORICAL NEIGHBORHOOD WITH REGARDS TO 9 31 HAYES, WE SUPPORT O P'S RECOMMENDATION TO DENY REQUESTED MODIFICATIONS. VIOLATING WORK MUST BE REPAIRED. NOW COUPLE OF THINGS HAVE BEEN SAID. LET'S LIGHTEN UP. WE ARE NOT A NON HISTORICAL DISTRICT. WE ARE HISTORICAL DISTRICT. WE WERE DESIGNATED HISTORICAL DISTRICT. IF THOSE OF US WHO LIVE IN THE HISTORICAL DISTRICT HAVE TO ABIDE BY RULES AND MAKE THOSE EXPENSES, THEN THOSE MOVING IN SHOULD HAVE DONE THE RESEARCH AND THEY SHOULD SAVE FOR WHAT PEOPLE THAT ARE LIVING THERE RIGHT NOW ARE EXPECTED TO DO INCONSISTENCIES. I'VE HEARD THAT YES, THERE ARE, YOU APPROVE ON ONE AND YOU DON'T APPROVE ON THE OTHER. BUT WE ARE STILL A HISTORICAL DISTRICT AND MANY OF US ARE TRYING TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. IF YOU LIGHTEN THE THOUGHT PROCESS, WE NO LONGER BECOME HISTORICAL. WE BECOME THE NORTH SIDE WHERE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING CAN GO UP. THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT. WE LIKE WHAT WE HAVE, WE LIKE THE HISTORY, BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE WAY TO MAINTAIN IT. THAT MEANS TO FIGHT FOR IT. AND YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE RULES ARE AND KNOW WHEN TO SAY YES. WE CAN ACCEPT IT AND BE ABLE TO BE BOLD ENOUGH TO SAY, NO, APPLICANT, WE [01:55:01] TOLD YOU NO, YOU DID VIOLATING WORK. GO BACK AND CORRECT IT. EVERYBODY HAS HARDSHIPS, NOT JUST THE PEOPLE MOVING IN. THAT IS A VERY FANCY HOME. I COULD NOT AFFORD TO BUILD THAT, BUT IF I KNEW I'M GOING INTO A HISTORICAL DISTRICT, YOU BETTER MAKE DAMN SURE I WAS GONNA DO THE RESEARCH AND NOT START ANYTHING UNTIL I HAD THE MONEY TO FULLY FUND IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. A MOTION STANDS AND JUST TO CLARIFY, IT DOES APPROVE THE LARGE PICTURE WINDOW AND THE SECOND STANDS. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED SAY NAY. AYE. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. AGENDA [B-17 20-1711 Address/Description: 102 BUFORD HDRC Case No.: 2020-029 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Bruce Lizalde Request: Addition, porch modifications City Council Dist.: 2] ITEM B 17 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 2 9 1 0 2. BUFORD. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REPLACE THE EXISTING ROD IRON PORCH COLUMNS WITH WOOD PORCH COLUMNS TWO, TO REPLACE THE EXISTING FIBERGLASS DOOR WITH A NEW FIBERGLASS DOOR AND THREE TO CONSTRUCT A 336 SQUARE FOOT REAR ADDITION, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEMS ONE THROUGH THREE BASED ON FINDINGS B THROUGH E WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE PROPOSED WOOD COLUMNS BE NO WIDER THAN SIX INCHES SQUARE, FEATURE BOTH CAPITAL AND BASE TRIM AND CHAMFORD CORNERS. TWO, THAT THE, THAT, THAT THE NEW IMPROVEMENT UPON THE NON-CONFORMING FEATURE FEATURE OUR CRAFTSMAN DOOR CONFIGURATION. REGARDLESS OF MATERIAL, A DOOR DESIGN MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. THREE, THAT THE PROPOSED NEW WINDOWS MUST ADHERE TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION, PHOTO DIVIDED LIGHTS AND NAILING FINS SHOULD BE AVOIDED REGARDLESS OF MATERIAL. THE PROPOSEDLY GYM WINDOWS DO NOT MEET STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS. A COMPLIANT WINDOW PRODUCT MUST BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. AND FOUR AT THE PROPOSED COMPOSITE SIDING FEATURE AND EXPOSURE, FOUR INCHES IN A, A WIDTH OF, UH, WIDTH, THE THREE, THREE, EXCUSE ME, THREE QUARTERS OF AN INCH MITRE CORNERS. IN A SMOOTH FINISH ON A SITE, THERE'S A, A CASE COMMENT AS WELL ON A SITE VISIT CONDUCTED ON JANUARY THE 29TH, STAFF FOUND THE REAR ELEVATION WAS SUBJECTED TO WINDOW AND SIDING REMOVAL IN PREPARATION FOR THE PROPOSED ADDITION PRIOR TO APPROVAL. AT THIS TIME, NO KNOWN HISTORIC MATERIAL HAS BEEN DISCARDED. JEFF, PLEASE. AFTERNOON YOU GUYS. I'M JEFF ADAMSON. I'M THE CONTRACTOR ON THIS PROJECT FOR BUS ALDI AND THE WINDOWS, UH, IN QUESTION AT THE REAR OF THE HOUSE ARE ALL, ALL STILL THERE? UM, WITH PLASTIC COVERED ON 'EM? I THINK FOR THE MOST PART WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH ANY OF THAT. UM, EVERYTHING, UH, IS GOING IN THE DIRECTION WE WANT. UH, I'M JUST HERE TO MAKE SURE IT HAPPENS. YOU DON'T DISAGREE WITH ANY OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN LAID OUT? NO, SIR. OKAY. WE'RE REUSING THE WINDOWS THAT WERE IN THAT, AND THOSE ARE THE WINDOWS THAT WE PUT IN THE ELEVATION DRAWINGS THAT WE TURNED IN. THEY ARE THE SAME WINDOWS, SO THERE'S REALLY NOT GONNA BE ANYTHING CHANGING. WE DO HAVE A SPEAKER. YES, ARI CORTEZ. SURE. IF YOU JUST HAVE A SEAT REAL QUICK. VALERIE CORTEZ RESIDING AT 5 0 8 LAMAR HERE REPRESENTING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIGNITY HILL HISTORICAL DISTRICT WITH REGARDS TO 1 0 2 BUFORT. WE SUPPORT O P'S RECOMMENDATIONS WITH AN ADDED COMMENT THAT THE APPLICANT SHOULD MATCH THE ACTUAL EXISTING DIMENSIONS OF DOORS, WINDOWS, TRIMS, SPACING, ET CETERA ON THE HISTORIC HOUSE. THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY. YOU SAID YOU AGREE TO ALL THE STIPULATIONS? YES MA'AM. MOTION TO APPROVE WITH STAFF STIPULATIONS. MOTION A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOU GUYS. AGENDA [B-18 20-1705 Address/Description: 930 HAYS ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-008 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: BLUE LINE HOUSING LLC Request: Installation of a new driveway City Council Dist.: 2] ITEM B 18 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2 2 0 0 8 9 30 HAYES, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO INSTALL A 16 FOOT WIDE DRIVEWAY AND WALKWAY WITH PERMEABLE ROCK COVER. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE DRIVEWAY AND WALKWAY BASED ON FINDINGS B THROUGH E WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS, ONE THAT THE DRIVEWAY IS LIMITED TO 10 FEET IN WIDTH TOWARD THE SIDEWALK AND MAY TAPER TO 16 FEET TOWARD THE INTERIOR OF THE REAR YARD. TWO, THAT THE DRIVEWAY AND WALKWAY FEATURE A PERMEABLE [02:00:01] COVER SUCH AS DECOMPOSED GRANITE OR CRUSHED GRAVEL AND NATURAL COLOR. THREE, THAT THE APPLICANT INCORPORATED DRIVEWAY APPROACH THAT MATCHES THE MATERIAL OF THE DRIVEWAY LIMITED TO 10 FEET WIDE IN WIDTH TOWARD THE REAR YARD, THE PROPERTY AND, AND MAY TAPER UP TO 12 FEET WIDE TOWARD THE STREET. FOUR, THAT THE WIDTH OF THE WALKWAY IS LIMITED TO THE WIDTH OF THE EXISTING CONCRETE WALKWAYS ON THE PROPERTY. AND FIVE, THAT AN UPDATED SITE PLAN WITH FINAL MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS AND MEASUREMENTS OF THE ABOVE STIPULATIONS AS SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. MAYOR, WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF PLEASE? HI, MY NAME IS CHRIS COKER. I'M THE OWNER AT NINE THREE OH HAYES. UH, RESPOND TO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. I AGREE WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I SEE IT AS THOUGH HOW THE LAYOUT OF THE YARD IS HAVING A A, A WIDER DRIVEWAY WOULD BE BEST FOR OR MORE, MOST CONDUCIVE TO HAVE TWO VEHICLES PARKING SIDE BY SIDE. I UNDERSTAND IT'S ON A MAIN STREET BEING MUNCY. UM, I DON'T NECESSARILY LIKE THE LOOK OF IT EITHER. HOWEVER, FOR PRACTICAL PURPOSES, IT DOESN'T QUITE MAKE SENSE FOR A 2000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE TO HAVE ONE LONG 10 FOOT DRIVEWAY THAT KIND OF CUTS OFF THE HOUSE FROM THE REST OF THE HUGE YARD THAT WE HAVE. SO THAT WAS MY INITIAL, UM, REQUEST FOR A WIDER DRIVEWAY. I MEAN, IF YOU GUYS WANNA DO 10 FOOT AND THAT'S ALL YOU'RE GONNA LIMIT ME TO, I'LL COMPLY WITH THAT. THAT'S NOT A BIG DEAL. I JUST THINK AESTHETICALLY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE YARD, HAVING A DRIVEWAY THAT BASICALLY CUTS OFF THE HOUSE FROM THE REST OF THE YARD DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE. BUT, UM, THE ONLY OTHER THING THAT I HAD IN QUESTION ON THERE WAS I WAS TOLD THAT I NEEDED A CURB CUT FOR AN AREA IN WHICH I DON'T ACTUALLY EVEN HAVE A CURB. UM, THE ENTIRE STREET OF MUNCIE, BOTH SIDES DO NOT HAVE A CURB. SO THEREIN LIES MY QUESTION IS, DO I, UH, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NOT ON MY PROPERTY. UM, BUT UM, DO I NEED TO HAVE A CURB BUILT? HOW FAR DO I EXTEND THAT? BECAUSE IT'S A REALLY LONG, I MEAN MY PROPERTY IS REALLY LONG ON, ON MUNCIE. I THINK IT'S 102, 102 OR 120 FEET. UM, AND THEN AT WHICH POINT, UH, I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE CITY WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CURB. I OBVIOUSLY DON'T WANNA PUT THE BILL FOR THAT. I DON'T MIND DOING THE DRIVEWAY PORTION OF IT, UM, OF THE CONCRETE. BUT, OR ACTUALLY IT HAS TO BE LIKE MATERIAL, SO YOU WANT CRUSHED GRANITE. I DON'T KNOW. IT JUST SEEMS KIND OF ODD. THE REQUEST BEFORE WE GET INTO DETAILS AND ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION, UH, WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. VALERIE CORTEZ, VALERIE CORTEZ AT 5 0 8 LAMAR, UH, HERE REPRESENTING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DIGNITY HILL HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH REGARDS TO ADDRESS NINE 30 HAYES SUPPORT STAFF'S DIMENSION RECOMMENDATIONS WITH AN ADDED COMMENT THAT DRIVEWAY AND PARKING AREAS NEED HARD EDGES FOR DEFINITION, PAVERS, STEEL EDGE, ET CETERA, AND TO AVOID PARKING IN THE YARD AREA. THANK YOU. I AGREE WITH HER RECOMMENDATION. UM, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK AESTHETICALLY IT, IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THOSE AREAS OUTLINED WITH SOME SORT OF, UH, PAVER, MAYBE LIKE A FOUR BY FOUR BLOCK, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. UM, WHICH IS, IS OUR GOAL. I, I THOUGHT I HAD CONVEYED THAT INITIALLY, BUT UM, MAYBE I DIDN'T. BUT I THINK THERE DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THERE, UM, OUTLINING THE AREA AND TO KEEP THE CRUSH GRAVEL IN. I MEAN, 'CAUSE IT'S JUST GONNA ERODE. YOU KNOW, ON A SIDE NOTE, I INITIALLY HAD REQUESTED UM, SORT OF A UNIQUE DRIVEWAY AND PATHWAY TO THE HOUSE AND I JUST, UM, FOR MAYBE FUTURE REFERENCE ON ANY PROPERTIES OR PEOPLE SEEKING APPROVAL ON DRIVEWAYS, CONSIDER THAT, UM, CRUSH GRANITE'S NOT THE MOST IDEAL FOR ESPECIALLY WOMEN. UM, WOMEN IN HEELS PICTURE COMING HOME ON A RAINY DAY, THEY HAVE TO GET OUTTA THEIR VEHICLE AND WALK THROUGH THE CRUSH GRANITE WITH THEIR HEELS DIGGING INTO THE GROUND. UM, AND I'VE SPOKEN WITH MINNIE, ACTUALLY THE YOUNG LADY THAT CLOSED ANOTHER PROPERTY FOR ME IN GOVERNMENT HILL A COUPLE WEEKS AGO. SHE LIVES IN, UM, UH, SOMEWHERE AROUND KING WILLIAM. I FORGET WHERE IT WAS, BUT SHE HAD THE SAME CONCERN AND SAID THAT THAT WAS THE ONLY VIABLE OPTION THAT SHE HAD. UM, BUT UH, YOU KNOW, GOING FORWARD I WOULD ASK, AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE I HAD REQUESTED, I THINK IT WAS 16 BY 16 OR 24 BY 24 PAVERS WITH ABOUT A THREE INCH, UM, GAP IN BETWEEN, WHICH WOULD BE FILLED BY NOT NECESSARILY CRUSH GRANITE, BUT A ROCK MATERIAL. AND IT WOULD GIVE NOT THE 'CAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE SOLID [02:05:01] CONCRETE DRIVEWAY, UH, ESPECIALLY NOT IN THIS AREA. I DON'T THINK IT LENDS MUCH CHARACTER TO THE PROPERTIES. SO, BUT I DON'T THINK CRUSH GRANITE DOES EITHER. UH, BUT I WOULD REQUEST THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT BE CONSIDERED FOR THE FUTURE 16 BY 16, 24 BY 24 3 INCH GAPPING IN BETWEEN GRANITE AT LEAST. SO IT GIVES AN AESTHETICALLY BETTER LOOK TO, UM, TO THE PROPERTY AS OPPOSED TO WHAT'S BEING APPROVED AND WHAT, UH, CONCRETE, I GUESS. SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. ISN'T THERE GOING TO BE THE REQUIREMENT FOR SOME KIND OF CONCRETE APRON AT THE DRIVE? I DUNNO THE ANSWER TO THAT. UM, THAT'S A T C I RIGHT AWAY PERMITTING QUESTION. UM, BUT YEAH, I THINK SO. SO STAFF SAYS ABOUT THE CURB CUT, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE REQUIRED TO BUILD THE CURB CUT, RIGHT? YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED, YOU'RE NOT GONNA, IT'S THE GRID THAT'S BEING REFERRED TO THERE, THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE STREET AND THE SIDEWALK. JUST IN THE FUTURE, SOMEDAY HOPEFULLY THEY WILL COME AND FIX YOUR STREET AND THEY WILL CREATE A CURB CUT AND THEY'RE GONNA DO A DRIVEWAY UP TO THE SIDEWALK. AND, AND THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE CONCRETE. I THINK YOUR RESPONSIBILITY IS THE SIDEWALK AND THEN NOW THE 10 FEET IS GUIDELINES. AND I MYSELF, IN MY HOUSE HAVE 10 FEET AND THEN I GO OUT TO A BIGGER SPREAD. UM, I AM I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT CONCRETE THAT ALREADY EXISTS ON YOUR, IN FRONT OF THAT FIRST DOOR, ARE YOU GONNA REMOVE THAT OR IS THAT GONNA BE PART OF IT? NO, IT'S GONE AND YOU CAN'T TIE INTO THAT. NO, IT'S, UH, IT'S WAY OFF LEVEL AND THERE'S DIFFERENT MEDIUMS THERE, I GUESS. UH, STOP. CAN YOU GO TO THE OTHER PICTURE WHERE THE OTHER DOOR IS THERE? YEAH. OH, AND THE OTHER THING IS THAT THAT REAR DOOR WE HAD APPROVAL FROM YOU GUYS. UM, THAT'S ACTUALLY A FAUX DOOR. SO MY FOCUS IS ON THE FRONT DOOR IN THAT PICTURE AND MAKING SURE THAT THE, THE WALKWAY GOES TO THAT ONE. AND I'M TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO NOT GO UP TO THE FO DOOR AND TRY TO OPEN IT TRYING. YOU'RE GONNA REMOVE THAT CONCRETE, CORRECT? YEAH. THAT PART OF THE APPLICATION, THE SITE PLAN THAT'S SUBMITTED SHOWS ONE WALKWAY LEADING FROM THE DOOR THAT'S PROPOSED TO BE USED AS A DOOR. UM, AND THE STAFF DID HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT THE PAVERS OR PERCEPTION OF IT COULD BE PAVERS, NO STAFF FINDS THAT THE SIDEWALK SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH WHAT'S FOUND HISTORICALLY IN REGARDS TO WIDTH THE MATERIALS WHICH IS CONCRETE, CORRECT? CORRECT. SO THE GRAVEL IS ONLY ON THE DRIVEWAY? NO, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE THE ENTIRE, UH, DRIVEWAY AND PATH. MATTER OF FACT, I THOUGHT THAT THE CONCRETE THEY WERE SPEAKING OF WAS THE ACTUAL SIDEWALK OUTSIDE OF OUR, OUR PROPERTY. I GUESS I I DIDN'T EVEN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT PIECE OF JUNK CONCRETE THAT'S LAYING THERE RIGHT NOW. NO, I DON'T THINK I, OKAY, SO STOP, CLARIFY. THE WALKWAY AND THE WALKWAY ALONG THE HOUSE AND THE ONE FROM THE GATE TO THE STAIRS IS OKAY TO BE CONCRETE, CORRECT? NOT THE SIDEWALK BEHIND THIS FENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE. SO I'LL RE UH, FINDING E FOR CLARIFICATION. SO AS PROPOSED, THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSED THE WALKWAY TO BE A IMPERVIOUS, SO DECOMPOSED GRANITE. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED TO INSTALL A WALKWAY FROM THE PROPOSED DRIVEWAY TO THE EXISTING SIDE DOOR AND TO THE SIDEWALK GATE. PER THE GUIDELINES FOR SITE ELEMENTS, APPLICANT SHOULD FOLLOW THE HISTORIC ALIGNMENT, CONFIGURATION AND WIDTH OF SIDEWALKS AND WALKWAYS. STAFF FINDS THAT THE PROPOSED WALKWAY IS GENERALLY APPROPRIATE AND THAT THE WIDTH OF THE WALKWAY SHOULD BE LIMITED TO THE WIDTH OF THE EXISTING CONCRETE WALKWAYS ON THE PROPERTY. AN UPDATED SITE PLAN WITH THE FINAL WIDTH AND CONFIGURATION OF THE WALKWAY SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF PRIOR TO INSTALLATION. THE GUIDELINES POINT TO ORIGINAL SIDEWALKS MAIN BEING MAINTAINED AS CONCRETE. UM, THIS SIDEWALK NOT BEING ORIGINAL, CONNECTING THE DRIVEWAY TO, UM, A SIDEWALK THAT WOULD BE PROPOSED OR WOULD BE POSITIONED TO BE ORIGINAL. UH, IT, IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THAT MATERIAL THAT'S PROPOSED FOR THAT SIDEWALK. UM, IF THIS IS A REPLACEMENT OF AN ORIGINAL OR AN EXISTING SIDEWALK, AS WE CAN SEE PREVIOUSLY EXISTED IN CONCRETE, THAT WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE. THE APPLICANT UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS JUST SAID, SO, SO IT NEEDS TO BE CRUSHED. GRANITE, I'M SORRY, I I'M TRYING TO FIND THE PICTURES OF THE, UH, OF WHAT I ORIGINALLY FOR BOTH. I WANT THIS TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THIS TO COME BACK. OKAY. I APOLOGIZE. SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTAND. I THINK WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. IF WE KEEP THE DRIVEWAY 10 FEET CRUSH GRANITE, THE REST IS [02:10:01] CONCRETE, I THINK YOU'LL BE OKAY WITH THAT. ESSENTIALLY, IF THERE'S AN EXISTING SLAB OF CONCRETE ON SITE, IT NEEDS TO BE MAINTAINED AS CONCRETE IN ITS CURRENT WIDTH. ANY NEW WALKWAY ON SITE CAN BE INSTALLED AS DECOMPOSED GRANITE. OKAY, SO DO I HAVE THE OPTION TO REMOVE THE CONCRETE THAT'S THERE BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S MISFORMED, IT'S, YOU CAN REMOVE IT, BUT IT SHOULD BE REPLACED IN KIND. SO REMOVE CONCRETE PLACED, REPLACED WITH CONCRETE. OKAY. MOVING IT FROM THE FAUX DOOR, WHICH ON THE, UH, IN THE REAR, YEAH, ON THE PLAN. IF YOU GO TO THE PLAN ON DRAWING EIGHT. YES. SO THE, RIGHT NOW THERE'S AN EXISTING PAD AND A SIDEWALK TO THE, UH, PERIMETER SIDEWALK FROM THE LEFT DOOR. CORRECT. AND THERE IS NOT A SIDEWALK TO THE RIGHT DOOR. CORRECT. SO YOU'RE PROPOSING A NEW SIDEWALK TO THE RIGHT DOOR AND DEMOLITION OF THE EXISTING SIDEWALK AND PAD AT THE LEFT DOOR, DEMOLITION TO THE EXISTING PAD ON THE LEFT DOOR. I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE MATERIAL HAD TO BE THE SAME LIGHT KIND, BOTH DRIVEWAY AND WALKWAY TO THE HOUSE BASED ON, ON RECOMMENDATION FROM STAFF. THAT'S WHAT I, I GATHERED. LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT THE FULL DOOR. WHAT'S A FULL DOOR TO YOU? I MEAN, IN THIS CASE? OKAY, SO I WANTED TO CLOSE THE DOOR. UM, BUT IT HAS, AND I, I KIND OF UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT HAS A HISTORIC AWNING ABOVE IT AND I MEAN, I THINK IT'S BEAUTIFUL, RIGHT? BUT SO IN LIEU OF HAVING THAT AWNING DISAPPEAR STAFF, UM, I GUESS SAID THAT WE HAD TO KEEP THAT DOOR AND JUST MAKE IT A FAUX DOOR MATCHING THE NEW DOOR. WHEN WE ACTUALLY MADE A NEW DOOR, THAT FRONT ONE WAS A, A NEW DOOR. SO YOU, YOU CLOSED THE WALL ON THE INSIDE OR IS THE DOOR JUST NAILED SHUT? I CLOSED THE DOOR, THE WALL ON THE INSIDE YOU ROCKED OR PLYWOOD OR CORRECT. IT IS NOW A CLOSET, A WALK-IN CLOSET. SO LET'S LOOK AT THIS ANOTHER WAY. YOU'RE MOVING THAT EXISTING CONCRETE PAD, WALK PAD, PAD AND LITTLE WALKWAY UP TO THE FENCE. YOU'RE MOVING THAT TO THE NEW ENTRANCE. I DON'T SEE, WELL, BY MOVING YOU MEAN REMOVING AND THEN BUILDING A NEW ONE? UM, THAT IS NOT WHAT I HAD PLANNED. NO. SO NOW AT THIS POINT I WAS GOING BASED OFF STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS AS FAR AS THE MATERIAL DRIVEWAY TO THE DOOR. AND SO NOW WE HAVE IT IN OUR BUDGET TO DO CRUSH GRANITE. SO WE WERE, I WAS TRYING TO ACCOMMODATE WHAT STAFF WAS REQUESTING. UM, THAT'S HOW I INTERPRETED IT AND I THINK, UM, SHOW MY CONTRACTOR. OKAY, LET'S JUST DO THIS 'CAUSE I WANNA MAKE SURE THIS DOESN'T COME BACK TO YOU OR TO US, RIGHT? WHY DON'T WE DO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE? AND CAN I, YES. CAN I INTERJECT ONE SEC? DO YOU MIND IF I SHOW YOU GUYS WHAT JUST THE FUTURE REFERENCE FROM EARLIER FOR PROPOSAL OF DRIVE AND WALKWAY GOING FORWARD? BECAUSE I HAVE OTHER, I HAVE OTHER PROPERTIES IN THERE. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND I LOVE THESE PROPERTIES SO MUCH THAT I WANT TO KEEP THEM AND I PROBABLY WILL. UM, AND I'D REALLY LIKE TO ADD SOME DESIGN ELEMENT TO DRIVEWAYS, WALKWAYS, THINGS THAT ARE EXPOSED SO IT DOESN'T LOOK SO NORMAL AND PLAIN, BUT DOESN'T LOOK NEW LIKE THE NORTH SIDE, RIGHT? SHOULD GIVE IT TO STAFF HERE, THEY'LL PUT IT ON THE OVERHEAD OR IT SOUNDS LIKE, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THERE THERE'S GONNA BE A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR YOU AND MEETS WHAT YOU DESIRE THAT IS ALSO CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO MEET WITH US IN THE NEXT WEEK? RESOLVE THIS? I CAN DO THAT. OKAY. I THINK THAT BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SHOWING AND YOUR IDEA, AND ALSO BECAUSE YOU WANNA DO THIS IN FUTURE PROPERTIES, I THINK THIS MEETING WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE CAN REALLY COME DOWN TO DISCUSS DETAILS AND THEN YOU CAN MAYBE USE THAT AS, YOU KNOW, TO COME WITH A PROPOSAL FOR OTHER PROPERTIES. I FEEL SPECIAL. I'M THE ONLY ONE TODAY SO FAR THAT'S HAD THAT REQUEST. THAT'S AWESOME. BUT WE TRY TO RESOLVE THESE THINGS AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN. BUT THIS, UH, THIS ONE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO UNTANGLE. MOTION TO MOVE TO D R C SECOND MOTION. AND SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGNER REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. BOARD [B-19 20-1693 Address/Description: 511 DAWSON ST HDRC Case No.: 2020-024 Historic District Name: Dignowity Hill Applicant: Andy Garcia Request: New construction of a rear accessory structure City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 19 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2 2 0 2 4 5 11 DAWSON FIVE 12 BOOKER. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. AT THIS TIME, STAFF RECOMMENDS CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL OF A 1000 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE STORY ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. BASED ON FINDINGS B THROUGH M. THE APPLICANT SHOULD ADDRESS THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS PRIOR TO RESUBMITTING FOR FINAL APPROVAL. ONE, THE ROOF SHOR ROOF FORM SHOULD FEATURE GABLE OR HIP ROOF FORMS INSTEAD OF THE PROPOSED SHED AND FLAT [02:15:01] ROOF FORMS. TWO. THE FENESTRATION PATTERN SHOULD FEATURE SASH WINDOWS AND A PATTERN THAT RELATES TO NEIGHBORING HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND EXCLUDES. RAISE TRANSOM AND PICTURE WINDOWS THREE, THAT THE BOOKER ALLEY AND INTERIOR YARD PORCHES FEATURE SHED OR GABLE PORCH ROOFS INSTEAD OF THE PROPOSED FLAT CAN LEVER FORMS. AND FOUR, THAT THE FINAL DESIGN SHOULD OTHERWISE ADHERE TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR STANDING SEA METAL ROOFS. AND U D C ARTICLE THREE, DIVISION TWO BASED ZONING ZONING DISTRICTS FOR APPLICABLE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS. ANY UPDATE TO THE DESIGN SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN PLAN SETS THAT ARE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR REVIEW. AFTERNOON. UH, MY NAME IS ANDRESS GARZA. I'M THE, UH, BUILDER ON THIS PROJECT. UM, THE OBJECTIVE HERE IS TO BUILD A SMALL THOUSAND FOOT THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT ADDITIONAL ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BEHIND FIVE 11 DAWSON. UH, PREVIOUSLY FIVE 11 DAWSON WAS BUILT IN 2017. UM, AND THE, THE IDEA IS TO BUILD, UH, FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, A MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE USING IDENTICAL MATERIALS, IDENTICALLY APPROVED, UH, WINDOWS, UH, WINDOW STYLES, FRAMING, ET CETERA. UM, AND THE SAME MATERIAL. IT'S TENDED TO HAVE A STANDING SEEING METAL ROOF. UM, SO THE IDEA HERE IS, AGAIN, THIS ACCESSORY WOULD BE BUILT SIMILAR, USING THE SAME MATERIALS AND BE BEHIND THIS STRUCTURE. ON FIVE 11, UH, IT'S, UH, BEEN APPROVED ALREADY. HE'S ALREADY GOTTEN A CERTIFICATE OF DETERMINATION. UH, BUT THE, UH, PROPERTY WILL NOT HAVE AN ADDRESS ON THE LOT BEHIND IT, WHICH IS BOOKER ALLEY. IT WILL HAVE A FIVE 11 DAWSON, UH, ADDRESS. UM, AND THAT WAS A STIPULATION REGARDS WITH THE, THE C O D. AS YOU CAN SEE, UH, YOU CAN'T SEE THE LOT BEHIND HERE. UH, THE STRUCTURE THAT'S WE'RE PROPOSING TO BE PUT UP, UM, A A AGAIN IS THE ONLY VISIBILITY YOU'RE GONNA HAVE OF IT IS ON BOOKER ALLEY, WHICH IS ALLEY. AS FAR AS, UH, SOME OF THE ISSUES, UH, AGAIN, WE'RE INCLINED TO LISTEN TO AND, AND SUPPORT THE GUIDELINES. UH, BUT THERE WAS SOME LOGIC TO, UH, WHAT WE SUBMITTED. AGAIN, THE WINDOWS, UH, THE WINDOWS WERE APPROVED ON THIS HOUSE, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO, TO PUT IN THE BACK INTO THE SMALL LITTLE APARTMENT AND, UH, ART STUDIO. UM, AS FAR AS THE, THE ROOF, UH, THE ROOF WAS DONE IN A SHED STYLE, UH, WITH A FLAT PORTION, UM, WITH THE INTENTION OF BEST UTILIZING THAT WITH THE SHED ROOF. ORIGINALLY, THE PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THAT WAS WE WERE GONNA GET ADDITIONAL LIGHTING IN. AND SINCE THIS MOTHER-IN-LAW, UH, FACILITY IS ACTUALLY GONNA BE, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE RIGHT THERE, THAT LIGHT WAS GONNA INCREASE THE ADDITIONAL LIGHTING TO, UH, THE, THE, THE HOUSE, THE LIVING SPACE AND THE BACKSIDE WAS GONNA ACTUALLY HAVE, UH, THOSE WERE GONNA BE ADDITIONAL LIGHTING, UH, FOR THE ART STUDIO. WHAT'S THE WIDTH BEFORE, BEFORE WE GET INTO, UH, THIS IS 20 FEET, 20 FEET WIDE. UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS? WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. UM, THE, AND, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT, UH, TOTALLY AGAINST IT, BUT THERE ARE SIMILAR STRUCTURES THAT HAVE SHED IN THE AREA, UH, AND FLAT ROOFS. SO, AND LOOK AT THOSE AFTER WE'VE HEARD FROM THE CITY. OKAY, THANK YOU. VALERIE CORTEZ. VALERIE CORTEZ RESIDING AT 5 0 8 LAMAR STREET, HERE REPRESENTING CONCERNED CITIZENS OF DITY HILL HISTORICAL DISTRICT. WITH REGARDS TO FIVE 11 DAWSON, WE SUPPORT O P'S RECOMMENDATIONS. NO, SHED ROOFS OF [02:20:01] THIS SIZE AS A PRIMARY ROOF FORM, PLUS AN ADDED COMMENT THAT THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES FOOTPRINT HEAPS WITHIN THE 40% OF THE MAIN STRUCTURES FOOTPRINT AS REQUIRED IN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION GUIDELINES AS PRESENTED, THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS 75%. THANK YOU. THE, ALTHOUGH WE ARE LABELING THIS AS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, UH, IT IS PHYSICALLY ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT LOT WITH A TOTALLY DIFFERENT LEGAL DESCRIPTION, IS NOT PART OF THE FIVE 11 DAWSON. THE FIVE 11 DAWSON IS BEING ADDRESSED THAT WAY BECAUSE WE WERE REQUIRED TO GRANT AN EASEMENT TO GET THE CERTIFICATE OF DETERMINATION AND, UH, THAT WAS ALL AVAILABLE IN THE PAPERWORK. SO, WELL, I THINK IN THIS CASE, IT'S MORE, UM, FAVORABLE TO YOU THAT WE LOOK AT THIS AS A ACCESSORY STRUCTURE PER THE GUIDELINES, BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE DON'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY. WE DON'T HAVE QUESTION FOR STAFF. UH, IF THIS IS A SEPARATE BUILDING ON A SEPARATE LOT, WHAT ARE THE PERCENTAGE OF COVERAGE ON A LOT? WHAT ARE THE MAXIMUMS IN THE GUIDELINES? 50%. UM, THE FOOTPRINT IS APPROXIMATELY 53% OF THE LOT. UM, WELL, BECAUSE YOU'RE CONSIDERING THE WHOLE LOT FROM DAWSON TO BOOKER. CORRECT. BUT IF CONSIDERED TO BE A PORTION OF THE LOT THAT'S ADDRESSED THE DAWSON, UM, WE WOULD GENERALLY, THAT WOULD BE AN EXTREMELY DEEP LOT THAT'S ATYPICAL OF WHAT'S FOUND ON THIS BLOCK. UM, AND THAT ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT, WHILE IT WOULDN'T BE CONSISTENT WITH THE GUIDELINES, WOULD PROBABLY BE APPROPRIATE, UM, AS WE NOTICED IN OTHER CASES, UM, IN, IN THE PAST. BUT IF THIS IS A SEPARATE LEGAL LOT THAT OPENS UP A HUGE CAN OF WORMS OF A BUNCH OF THINGS THAT AREN'T BEING, UH, ACCOMMODATED HERE, LIKE THE REAR YARD SETBACK AND SOME OTHER ISSUES. SO WE CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, LIKE, OH, IT'S, IT'S A SEPARATE LEGAL LOCK, BUT WE'RE GONNA TREAT IT LIKE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. WELL, UM, NOT TO GET INTO A ZONING ISSUE TOO MUCH HERE, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT OUR CONCERN. UM, THE APPLICANT HAS HAD A CERTIFICATE OF DETERMINATION, UM, THROUGH ZONING AND LAND USE THAT, UM, ADDRESSES ITEMS THAT WOULD COME UP IN THAT SENSE. UM, AND THERE ARE OTHER, UM, ELEMENTS IN PLACE, UM, FOR STRUCTURES THAT ARE PLACED ON ALLEYS THAT WOULD ALLOW THE CENTER LINE OF THE ALLEY TO ACT AS THE REAR PROPERTY LINE, UM, WHICH WOULD GIVE OR GRANT SOME LEEWAY ON, ON ELEMENTS SUCH AS SETBACKS. UM, BUT I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY GETTING A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE OF THANK YOU FOR WHAT WE'RE MENTIONING. THERE IS A, UH, EASEMENT THAT'S BEEN GRANTED AND DEEDED. IT'S ALREADY BEEN FILED TO GRANT ACCESS TO THAT PROPERTY VIA THE DRIVEWAY AT FIVE 11. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT THEY HAD WITH THE CERTIFICATE OF DETERMINATION. SO THE, THE ACCESS HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED. THEY BASICALLY INFORMED THE OWNER, UH, THAT THEY WOULD NOT PROVIDE A ADDRESS TO IT, BUT THIS WAS THE WAY TO UTILIZE IT. OKAY. SO, BUT WE DID HAVE THE SAME QUESTION AS FAR AS OFFSETS. THE SITE PLAN WAS DESIGNED, UH, WITH 15 FEET FROM THE BACK FENCE AND 15 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE ON, ON BOOKER ALLEY. SO WE PLACED IT DEAD IN THE, THAT STOP THIS REC CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL. AND THIS HAS NOT BEEN TO A NO, IT HASN'T. UM, BUT I THINK THE APPLICANT, THE APPLICANT HAS UPDATES THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT OR FOR ITEMS THAT WOULD FURTHER CLAR CLAR CLARIFY, EXCUSE ME, OR ADDRESS, UM, STAFF STIPULATIONS. OKAY. OKAY. THIS IS, UH, UH, A PHOTO OF THE DEPTH OF THE WINDOWS AND HOW THEY'RE RECESSED. CAN I INTERJECT HERE JUST SO I UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT? SO YOU WERE SHOWING THE IMAGES OF THE, THE STRUCTURE THAT I THINK WE RECENTLY APPROVED MAYBE A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, BUT YOU APPROVED IN 2017 IN FRONT, AND YOU WERE REFERENCING THAT IN TERMS OF MATERIALS INCLUDING WINDOW AND ROOF, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THOSE MEET THE STANDARD. SO WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT IN THE PHOTO THAT YOU'RE SHOWING US? SO ESSENTIALLY THE APPLICANT HAS NOTED THAT THE PROPOSED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE WILL MATCH THE [02:25:01] STRUCTURE THAT'S BEEN APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION IN REGARDS TO MATERIALS. WHEN THAT'S WINDOW MATERIALS, WINDOW PRODUCT, WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS. UM, THE APPLICANT IS HERE MAKING A CASE TO USE EXACTLY WHAT'S SEEN IN THE NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT'S BEEN COMPLETED SO THAT HE CAN USE THAT FOR THE REAR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. BUT TO BE CLEAR, WE DIDN'T APPROVE THAT. YES, YOU DID. WE HAVE, SHE DID. WE APPROVED VINYL WINDOWS AND A YES AND A CAP ON THE METAL ROOF. THIS, THE STRUCTURE THAT YOU SEE HERE WAS APPROVED BY THE H D R C IN 2016 OR 2017. UM, THIS PREDATES MANY OF THE SPECIFICATIONS THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE NOW. SO THIS IS THE REASON WHY THE APPLICANT IS PRESENTING THESE WINDOWS AS THEY'VE BEEN INSTALLED, UM, AS A CASE TO INSTALL THOSE ON THE REAR STRUCTURE THAT'S BEING PROPOSED. OKAY. JUST FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARIFICATION. SO THOSE ARE NOT SEEN AS A VIOLATION. THOSE WOULDN'T BE VIEWED A VIOLATION BECAUSE OF WHEN THEY WERE APPROVED FOR THIS HOUSE. THIS HOUSE WAS CONSTRUCTED AS APPROVED. I UNDERSTAND. I THINK I'VE CONFUSED AS A MORE, A MORE RECENT HOUSE ON THE STREET MAYBE, UH, CONTINUE, JUST REFERENCE THE IMAGES THAT, SO THE THO THAT, THAT'S THE WINDOW AND, AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IT TWO INCH WINDOW SEAL AND THE DEPTH IS, UH, WELL, EXCUSE ME, A THREE, THREE AND A AND 10 16TH WINDOW SEAL. AND THEN OF COURSE, THAT'S THE DEPTH OF THE WINDOW. UM, AND IS THE WINDOW'S ENTIRELY ENCASED IN WOOD, YOU KNOW, FITS THE NEIGHBORHOOD VERY, VERY WELL. UM, AS FAR AS THE OTHER CONCERN OUTSIDE THE WINDOWS, UH, THERE WAS A CONCERN IN REGARDS TO THE ROOF, THE SHED ROOF. UM, BEFORE WE, WE START SHOWING YOU EXAMPLES, UH, WELL, ALTERNATIVES, WE JUST WANNA MAKE A, WE'LL GIVE YOU AN IDEA. THAT'S THE BACK VIEW. THAT'S FROM THE LOT IN BOOKER ALLEY. THAT'S THE BACK VIEW OF THE HOUSE. UH, THAT'S WHERE THE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE, THE NEW STRUCTURE WE'RE LOOKING TO, TO BUILD IS GONNA BE RIGHT THERE. THIS IS ANOTHER PROPERTY ON SIX 15 MESQUITE SHOWING SOME FLAT FACADES, FLAT STYLE. AGAIN, THIS IS A, UH, A MORE OF A FLAT ROOF IN IN THIS REGARD. THIS IS A SHED ROOF ON A HOUSE THAT'S ON THE CORNER OF NOLAN MESQUITE. THIS IS AN ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE. UH, I BELIEVE IT'S LIKE A BEDROOM OR SOMETHING. UH, AND IT'S GOT A SHED IN IT'S BRAND NEW ADDITION TO A VERY, VERY OLD PROPERTY. SO, AND HERE'S ANOTHER 1, 9 16, SHOWING YOU A VERY MODERN APPROACH. AND THERE'S ANOTHER ONE ON SHERMAN. AND HERE'S A FLAT ROOF AROUND THE CORNER. THIS IS ABOUT A TWO BLOCKS AWAY. AND YOU KNOW THIS ONE. NOW, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF TRYING TO MOVE THIS ALONG, WE'LL BE LOSING THE, THE LIGHT AND AND POINT. YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THEM. OKAY. AND THIS IS MORE OF A GABLE ROOF, NOT A, UH, HUGE ELABORATE STRUCTURE. IT'S A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET. THAT'S BACK, THAT'S FACING THE HOUSE ON DAWSON, WHERE THE CAR IS. THERE WON'T BE ANY CAR. THIS, THE ARTIST JUST GOT A LITTLE CRAZY THERE. I WAS GONNA [02:30:01] ASK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT DRIVEWAYS THAT ARE SHOWN OFF OF BOOKER ALLEY. OKAY. THEY, THEY'RE BASICALLY NOT GONNA BE THERE. THE, THE PLAN FOR FOR THAT IS JUST TO HAVE SOME KIND OF GRAVEL THERE. JUST KEEP IT CLEAN. NOTHING, I DON'T SEE IT REALLY BEING USED FOR PARKING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT'S JUST, I KNOW THIS IS A DEPARTURE FROM YOUR ORIGINAL CONCEPT, BUT I THINK THIS IS MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE, UH, EXISTING HOUSE AND OTHER STRUCTURES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, PITCH DREWS LIKE THIS. UH, POSSIBLY A DORMER ON THE, THAT SIDE WHERE YOU HAD THE CLEAR STORY WINDOWS BEFORE TO BRING SOME LIGHT FURTHER INTO THE, UH, INTERIOR OF THE FACILITY OF THE HOUSE. UM, WE WEREN'T TRYING TO MAKE IT IDENTICAL TO THE MAIN HOUSE, SO IT WAS, I THINK THERE'S SOME FENESTRATION ISSUES AND IT'S SOME DESIGN THAT I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE APPROVING. I THINK THAT I WOULD, UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING CONCEPTUAL, WHICH COULD BE AN OPTION. OR WE CAN JUST GO TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE AND, UH, AND DISCUSS FINAL IF THAT, WHAT KIND OF, UH, ISSUES ARE YOU HAVING? I WOULDN'T BE COMFORTABLE APPROVING THIS WITHOUT A PLAN. AND THE FENESTRATIONS, THOSE WINDOWS, UH, THEY MAY MATCH IN MATERIAL WITH THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, BUT I'M JUST, UH, THOSE OPENINGS WERE PROBABLY NOT, NOT SOMETHING THAT I COULD APPROVE. I, I CONCUR. AND, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT THIS CASE BE REFERRED TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEETING. AND, AND I, I'M GONNA SECOND THAT AND WITH SOME COMMENTS THAT I THINK THAT, UH, SINCE YOU'RE GOING FOR CONCEPTUAL NOW, IF WE CAN GET TO D R C AND MAKE SOME CHANGES THERE, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO COME BACK FOR FINAL INSTEAD OF HAVING TO COME BACK FOR CONCEPTUAL AND LOSE TIME. 'CAUSE I THINK WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP YOU MAKE SOME MORE PROGRESS THERE. OKAY. WELL, WE WERE HOPING CHANGE A MOTION TO THAT. NO. LET'S SEE HOW THE DESIGN REVIEW C COMMITTEE MEETING GOES. SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY, AYE. MAKE A COMMENT. YES, SIR. I, I JUST, I'D LIKE TO COMMENT THAT I LIKE YOUR APPROACH. I LIKE THE DESIGN, UM, WITH THE, UM, CLEAR STORY THAT'S SHOWN. I'M, I'M THINKING THE PITCH DOESN'T NECESSARILY MATCH, UH, UM, THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. IN WHICH CASE, IF YOU HAD THE CLEAR STORY AND IF YOU WERE ALLOWED TO HAVE A FLAT PORTION OF ROOF AND THE PITCH WAS RAISED A LITTLE BIT, IT MAY SET A BETTER BALANCE, UH, VISUALLY IN TERMS OF THE COMMISSIONER IN, IN THE EVENT THAT YOU PREFER TO CONTINUE TO, UH, STAND UP FOR YOUR DESIGN. RIGHT. UM, BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO COMMENT TO YOU THAT I, I, I LIKE THE DESIGN AND I FIND IT, UM, A, A A NICE ALIEN, A NICE, UH, DIFFERENCE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. THANK YOU. UH, AGAIN, THE I IDEA WAS, AND, AND KEEPING IN MIND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING, THIS IS FELIX PADRON. HE'S A FIVE 11 DAWSON. AND BASICALLY THIS IS A STRUCTURE WHERE MY MOTHER'S GONNA LIVE. MY 84 YEAR OLD MOTHER WHO JUST RELOCATED HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. SHE NEEDS TO BE LIVING CLOSE TO ME. AND I'M FORTUNATE TO HAVE FOUND THIS WONDERFUL. THAT'S REALLY THE INTENT. UH, I REALLY, FROM A DESIGN STANDPOINT, I THINK THAT, UH, IN MY VIEW, THE ORIGINAL DESIGN IS WHAT I, WHAT I LIKE. I THINK IT REALLY ULAR THE ROOF VERNACULAR OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF A MIXED SORT OF, UH, SHED AND FLAT ROOF AS INDICATED BY PROOF OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT, THAT WE SHOWED YOU. UH, I ALSO THINK THAT, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES THE NEIGHBORHOOD SO ATTRACTIVE AND HISTORICAL CONTEXT IS THAT NO SINGLE HOUSE IS THE SAME OR VERY UNIQUE. SO WHY WOULD I WANT TO DUPLICATE IN THE BACK MY HOUSE? I'M TRYING TO BE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE JUST TO EASE THE PROCESS. SAME COLOR, SAME MATERIALS, SAME WINDOWS, UH, SAME FINISHES, BUT I WANTED TO GIVE IT A VARIETY WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE FLAT AND, AND THE, THE ANGLE. UH, I THINK IT, IT GIVES IT THAT SORT OF, UH, BREAK POINT. UH, I THINK, SO THAT'S REALLY THE INTENT. I MEAN, WE'RE, I'M A LITTLE BIT BAFFLED THAT WE'RE SAYING WE'RE USING THE SAME EXACT MATERIALS AS FIVE 11 DAWSON, THAT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED . SORRY ABOUT THAT. [02:35:01] UM, I, I'M, I'M, I'M A, I'M A LITTLE BIT DISCONNECTED THERE, BUT, BUT WE CAN JUST ONE OTHER COMMENT JUST, JUST FOR CONSIDERATION OF THE, OF THE, UH, H H D C I GUESS, OR THE D R C. THE D R C THAT, UM, I, I, I, YOU KNOW, I, IT IS A VERY DELICATE THING TO SAY FROM STANDPOINT OF COMMISSIONER, RIGHT? BUT IT, IT'S, IT APPEARS THAT THERE'S A, UH, A QUALITY OF OF, OF CULTURAL SENSIBILITY IN THE SHARP LINES. AND WITH RESPECT TO, UM, ARCHITECTURE IN, IN SAN ANTONIO, YOU KNOW, DATING BACK TO TIMES WHEN THERE WERE BELGIAN COMMUNITIES OR GERMAN COMMUNITIES TO FIND COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE ARCHITECTURE WITH, WITH, LET'S JUST SAY LATINO FLAIR, UM, WHEN THEY'RE NEW CONSTRUCTION. I THINK CULTURAL SENSITIVITY AND, AND, UM, THAT, THAT LOOKING AT STRUCTURE AT, AT, AT DESIGN, WE SHOULD ALSO BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE INCLUSION. UM, BUT, UH, I, I, I WILL BE VOTING, UH, FOR IT TO GO TO THE COMMITTEE SO THAT THEY CAN HELP YOU OUT FURTHER. CAN I SAY JUST A COUPLE OF THINGS? UH, FIRST OFF, WE'RE TRYING TO MOVE THIS ALONG 'CAUSE HIS MOM IS IN A RENTAL FACILITY AND, AND IT'S JUST NOT, OR SHE NEEDS TO BE, THIS IS NOT A DENIAL. WE JUST WANT TO REALLY, THERE'S OTHER APPLICANTS HERE AT THIS MEETING, AND I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY'RE GONNA BE HERE FOR ANOTHER LONG TIME. DESIGN REVIEW IS JUST SO WE CAN MORE DISCUSS DETAILS. I DON'T SAY THAT THE ROOF SHED IS NOT AN OPTION OR THE GABLE BRING ALL THE PICTURES, BRING ALL THE DRAWINGS, AND WE SIT DOWN AND WE TALK ABOUT IN A MORE INFORMAL AND MORE LENGTHY CONVERSATION. AND THEN WE CAN COME TO AN AGREEMENT. YOU COME AND PRESENT THE FINAL AND YOU CAN GET THE FINAL. OKAY. THE, UH, THING I WANTED TO TRY TO COMMUNICATE IS THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT OVER TIME YOU'RE GONNA BE CHANGING YOUR POSITION OF THIS TYPE OF WINDOW VERSUS THAT TYPE OF WINDOW. WE THOUGHT THE SLAM, THE EASY WAY TO DO IT WAS TO GO AHEAD AND USE THE SAME STUFF TO, TO GET WHAT WAS APPROVED ON THE TABLE. WELL, I DON'T, WE ARE, WE ARE NOT AGAINST CHANGING THE WINDOWS FROM VINYL TO SOMETHING ELSE. OKAY? WE'RE, WE'RE NOT GONNA FIGHT YOU ON THAT. THAT THAT'S A REAL CUT AND DRY ISSUE THAT WE CAN TAKE UP. I THINK THE FORM AND THE FENESTRATION, SOME OF THOSE OTHER ISSUES IS A REASON WHY WE FEEL IT NEEDS TO GO TO D R C. NOT THAT, NOT NECESSARILY THE MATERIAL ISSUE. I COULD SEE A REASONABLE CASE SAYING, THIS IS AN ADDITION TO THE HOUSE. THESE ARE THE WINDOWS WE PUT IN. THAT'S WHAT I NEED TO USE. AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT YOU PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE ARGUMENT TO JUSTIFY AN ALTERATION TO WHAT WE WOULD ORDINARILY DO. WE LOOK AT EVERY CASE INDEPENDENTLY, INDIVIDUALLY, AND THEY DON'T PRESS, THEY DON'T, UH, SET PRECEDENT PER SE. UM, BUT THAT'S NOT THE REASON I THINK THIS NEEDS TO GO TO A D R C. IN FACT, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD COME UP. UM, I DON'T, I DON'T FEEL THAT, UM, AN, UH, UH, AN OLDER APPROVAL ON A STANDARD, IT JUSTIFIES PROPAGATING A MATERIAL THAT ISN'T, ISN'T, UH, UH, OFTEN APPROVED ANYMORE. BUT I THINK YOU HAVE A COMPELLING CASE TO MAKE. AGAIN, UH, FOR THE MATERIALS, I THINK THE FORM, THE ORGANIZATION ON THE SITE, THE ROOF, ARE THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY NEED TO SEND IT TO THE D R C COURT. SO, TO GET YOU DOWN THE ROAD, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU. [B-20 20-1691 Address/Description: 206 CAMARGO HDRC Case No.: 2020-030 Historic District Name: Lavaca Applicant: Adan Ochoa/AO Design, LLC Request: Front porch reconstruction, amendment to a previously approved design, siding replacement, and construction of a rear deck City Council Dist.: 1] AGENDA ITEM B 20 H D R C, CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 32 0 6 CAMARGO. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, RECONSTRUCT THE FRONT PORCH. TWO TO INSTALL A REAR DECK. THREE TO INSTALL TWO TRANSOM WINDOWS ON THE SIDE ELEVATION, FORWARD THEM IN THE APPROVED WINDOW, SPECIFICATIONS ON THE REAR ADDITION. AND FIVE TO REPLACE THE EXISTING ORIGINAL WOOD SIDING WITH NEW WOOD SIDING. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM ONE, FRONT PORCH RECONSTRUCTION BASED ON FINDING C WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION. ONE, THAT SPECIAL ATTENTION SHOULD BE MADE TO REPAIR OR RECONSTRUCT THE EXACT DETAILS OF THE PREVIOUS COLUMNS. TWO, THAT THE PORCH DECK FEATURE ONE BY THREE TU WOOD, TONGUE AND GROOVE MEMBERS LAID PERPENDICULAR TO THE FRONT FACADE PLAYING. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF ITEM TWO, THE CONSTRUCTION OF A REAR DECK BASED ON FINDING C WITH THE STIPULATION THAT AN NSAID IS INCORPORATED ON EACH SIDE ELEVATION. ELEVATION. WALL PLAYING STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM THREE, THE INSTALLATION OF TWO NEW TRANSOM WINDOWS ON THE SIDE ELEVATION. BASED ON FINDING D THE APPLICANT MAY RESUBMIT A DESIGN THAT ADHERES TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION. [02:40:01] THE APPLICANT MAY CONSIDER INSTALLING WOOD WINDOW SCREENS OR AN INTERIOR FUR WALL TO ACCOMMODATE THE BATHROOM. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM FOUR AND AMENDMENT TO THE ADDITIONS WINDOWS TO ALLOW PHOTO DIVIDED LIGHTS AND NAILING FINS. AN APPROPRIATE WINDOW PRODUCT THAT ADHERES TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR WINDOWS AND ADDITIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE SUBMITTED TO STAFF FOR EACH NON-CONFORMING WINDOW. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF ITEM FIVE, THE REMOVAL AND REPLACEMENT OF THE ORIGINAL WOOD SIDING BASED ON FINDING D APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. HI THERE. I'M ADMIR OCHO WITH AO DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION. A LITTLE NERVOUS 'CAUSE I'VE ALREADY SEEN HOW EVERYTHING ELSE IS GONE, SO I'M PRETTY SURE I KNOW THE ANSWERS, BUT WE'LL GO THROUGH IT EITHER WAY. THE THE ONE THAT I WAS WANTING TO TALK ABOUT WAS THE, UH, TRANSOM WINDOWS. THE TRANSOM WINDOWS THAT I HAD ASKED, UH, TO BE APPROVED WERE ONES THAT ARE, UM, IN THE BATHROOMS. THEY'RE ACTUALLY IN THE SHOWER AREA. UM, SO YEAH, THOSE TWO LOCATIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE, WHICH ONE IS IT? UM, WHERE, UH, THESE TWO LOCATIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE, THEY'RE SIDE-BY-SIDE MASTER BATHROOM AND GUEST BATHROOM. UM, AND THEY'RE LOCATED RIGHT WHERE THE SHOWERS ARE AT STANDUP SHOWER. UH, WE'RE JUST WANTING TO TRY AND GET SOME LIGHT IN THERE, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHY WE'RE WANTING TO DO THE TRANSOM WINDOWS. WE PUT THE, WE CAN PUT THE, UM, ORIGINAL WINDOWS BACK IN, BUT THEY'RE JUST GONNA BE TOO TALL, ALLOWING EVERYBODY TO SEE INSIDE AS THEY TAKE THEIR SHOWER. UH, WE THOUGHT ABOUT DOING THE, UM, UH, THE FO OR THE WALL IN BACK OF IT. AND IF WE WERE TO DO SO, I JUST WANTED TO GET CLEAR. Y'ALL WOULD WANT TO HAVE THE BOTTOM CLOSED OFF AND STILL LEAVE THE SECOND, UH, PORTION OPENED UP. CORRECT. IS THAT THE WAY Y'ALL, SIR? THIS, THIS IS, UM, JUST FOR CONTEXT, THE, THIS IS AN AMENDMENT TO A PREVIOUS APPROVAL, AND IN PARTICULAR THE WINDOW HERE WAS ADDRESSED IN THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL. WHAT, WHAT WAS APPROVED? WHAT ARE YOU ASKING FOR THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL? THE TRANSOM WINDOWS WERE APPROVED. OH, THERE WAS THIS, THIS, THIS ISSUE WAS DISCUSSED ABOUT FENESTRATION THAT WAS LOCATED THERE. OKAY. THINK ON A SITE VISIT, THERE WERE WINDOWS THAT WERE, WERE IN THAT AREA. ARE YOU SPEAKING THE, THE, UH, VISIT THAT WE JUST HAD OR PRIOR TO THAT? 'CAUSE I'M ACTUALLY THE NEW, OH, THE ORIGINAL, THE ORIGINAL ONE FROM A LONG TIME AGO. SO I'M TRYING TO, AND I DO APOLOGIZE. I WASN'T THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR A LONG TIME AGO. SO ORIGINALLY THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE HAD AN ORIGINAL WINDOW, UM, ON THE WEST ELEVATION UNDER THE GABLE AND ON THE EAST ELEVATION. IT HAD TWO GANGED WINDOWS, UM, THROUGHOUT THE REHABILITATION OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, THE ORIGINAL PORCH HAS BEEN REMOVED, WHICH I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS RECONSTRUCTING OR HAS AGREED TO RECONSTRUCT PER ITS ORIGINAL FORM. UM, THE TWO MAIN THINGS THAT HAVE OCCURRED IN REGARDS TO THE FENESTRATION, UM, HERE AT THE REAR, THIS ORIGINAL WINDOW WAS PREVIOUSLY REMOVED. THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS ELEVATION TO INSTALL TWO TRANSOM WINDOWS. AS THIS LOCATION IS IN THE RESTROOM, UM, STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS FOR THE APPLICANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT ORIGINALLY WAS THERE. HOWEVER, AT THIS TIME, THE APPLICANT IS ASKING, UM, THAT YOU ALL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THESE TWO TRANSOM WINDOWS, UM, TO, I GUESS, UM, SAVE SOME EFFORT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE PRIOR TO HIM COMING ONTO THE PROJECT. UM, ANOTHER THING THAT, WELL, I'LL, I'VE, I'VE GOT, YEAH, I'VE GOT A QUESTION REGARDING THAT AND THEN I'LL LET YOU, YOU GUYS FINISH. SO THE, UH, TRANSOM WINDOW LOCATIONS THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING, AND WHAT'S THE CURRENT STATE OF THE FRAMING? AND THE SIDING THERE IS THAT SIDING IS NOT, UH, FRAMING IS A HUNDRED PERCENT ALREADY. SO IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT FOR THE NEW TRANSOMS. UM, NO SIR. NOT FOR THE NEW TRANSOMS. JUST NEW FRAMING. YES, SIR. I BELIEVE THE PHOTO ON THE SCREEN, UM, IS, IS THAT, THAT'S THE FRONT BEDROOM? YEAH. IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, I MEAN, THIS WAS, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR PARTICULAR ISSUE WAS ASKED, UM, ON THE PREVIOUS ROUND OF APPROVALS AND THIS CONVERSATION WAS HAD, AND THE ANSWER WAS NO, AT THAT TIME WHERE CAN'T DO, UH, UH, PROPORTION OF THE FENESTRATION ISN'T IN THE CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING. SECOND, THERE WERE TWO HISTORIC, THERE WERE TWO WOOD WINDOWS THAT WERE ON THAT WALL. ONE OF THEM APPEARED TO BE ORIGINAL TO THE STRUCTURE WITH ANOTHER ONE THAT HAD [02:45:01] BEEN MODIFIED. IT HAD A STRANGE GANGING CONDITION. IS THAT THEM, THESE WINDOWS, AS FAR AS STAFF KNOWS, UM, ARE ORIGINAL TO THE STRUCTURE. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DOCUMENTS, BOTH ARE NOTED. UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED THE APPLICANT INSTALL, UM, AS THEY PREVIOUSLY EXISTED, WHICH THE APPLICANT HAS AGREED TO. BUT THERE WAS EXISTED, THERE WAS AN EXISTING WINDOW ON THIS, ON THE SIDE WHERE WE'RE SEEING THE TRANSOM WINDOW PROPOSED. THAT IS CORRECT. SO THE APPLICANT BASICALLY IS PROPOSING THE SWAP, AN ORIGINAL OPENING FOR TWO TRANSOM WINDOWS. AND SO THAT'S, SO THAT GOES BACK TO MY QUESTION. SO THE FRAMING THAT'S COMPLETE, WHAT'S, WHAT'S FRAMED? IS THERE A HEADER OVER TWO TRANSOMS OR A HEADER OVER THE ORIGINAL LOCATION OF THE WINDOW? UH, NEITHER. IT WAS JUST, IT'S JUST A, A NEW FRAMING THAT'S CURRENTLY THERE. SO THERE'S NO HEADERS THAT APOLOGIZE. THAT WOULDN'T, I MEAN, THAT PICTURE THAT'S SHOWN RIGHT THERE, UM, THERE'S, THERE'S THE WIN, THERE'S THE, UM, UM, THE SIDE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, AND IT WAS OVER IN THIS AREA, BUT IT'S JUST FRAMED RIGHT NOW. IT'S NOT FRAMED FOR A WINDOW AT ALL. GOT IT. GOT IT. SO NORMALLY IN THESE SITUATIONS, WHENEVER IT'S MORE OF A, UH, AN ADJUSTMENT OR A REMODEL, I, I TRY TO TEND TO, TO LEAN AGAINST, YOU KNOW, MAKING SMALL ADJUSTMENTS TO SIDING OR MAKING SMALL ADJUSTMENTS TO WINDOW LOCATIONS. BUT IN A WHOLESALE REFRAMING OF A WALL OF THIS NATURE, UM, I WOULDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH TRANSOM WINDOWS. MY ONLY CONCERN IS THAT YOU AND STAFF, CAN YOU CLARIFY THAT THE, THE EXISTING WINDOW, THE, THE WOOD WINDOW, IS THAT STILL ON SITE, THE ONE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REPLACING? OR WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE A NEW WINDOW? THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF EXISTING WINDOWS THAT ARE ON SITE. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE THESE, THERE HAVE THE, THE PEDIMENT TRIM, UM, ABOVE THE HEAD. UM, SO I, I CAN'T CLARIFY THAT THAT EXACT WINDOW IS ON SITE, BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF HISTORIC WOOD WINDOWS ON SITE, UM, AND THOSE THAT WOULD BE RELOCATED FROM THE ORIGINAL REAR OF THE HOUSE, UM, TO, UH, ACCOMMODATE THE ADDITION THAT COULD BE RELOCATED, UM, TO THAT SIDE ELEVATION. CLARIFY, THIS IS AN ADDITION, BUT THAT PART OF THE HOUSE IS NOT AN ADDITION THAT PART OF THE HOUSE IS BEING RECONSTRUCTED, RIGHT? I'M SORRY? THAT PART OF THE HOUSE IS BEING RECONSTRUCTED, CORRECT? THAT, THAT IS CORRECT. WE'VE SEEN RANSOM WINDOWS IN ADDITIONS IN THE BACK, WHICH WE'RE ALREADY APPROVING TWO WINDOWS THAT ARE NOT COMMON TO THAT IN THE BACK. SO I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE THREE TYPES OF FENESTRATIONS ON THAT SIDE. AND IT WOULD BE, I THINK WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL WITH THE TWO WINDOWS PAIRED AS ORIGINALLY. AND IF YOU STILL HAVE THEM, IF YOU WANNA DRYWALL IT ON THE INSIDE, YOU CAN DO THAT. MY, UM, AND, AND FRAMING THIS IS PART OF IT, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE MY, IT'S TOO CLOSE TO THE FRONT FOR THOSE TRAINS AND WINDOWS, I THINK MORE IN THE BACK. AND I'M ALSO WORRIED ABOUT THOSE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED IN THE BACK STUFF. IF YOU CAN JUST REVIEW THOSE, BECAUSE THERE'S SOME THAT'S, THAT'S ALSO PART THE REQUEST. SO THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS THAT WERE APPROVED FOR THE ADDITION WERE WHAT TYPE ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOWS. THE WINDOWS THAT ARE INSTALLED ARE ALUMINUM WINDOWS. UM, AND SO THAT'S ALSO PART OF THE REQUEST TO AMEND THAT. UM, I WILL GO TO THE PHOTOS OF THE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED. UH, SO THE WINDOWS THAT INSTALLED, THEY FEATURE A NAILING FIN, UM, INFO DIVIDED LIGHTS. UM, THIS IS A SIMILAR SITUATION TO WHAT WE SAW EARLIER. UM, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING OR REQUESTING AT THIS TIME TO MAINTAIN THE WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED, UH, RATHER THAN REMOVE THOSE AND INSTALL A WINDOW THAT MEETS STAFF SPECIFICATIONS, UH, WHICH COULD EITHER BE, UM, A WOOD WINDOW OR AN ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD WINDOW OR, UM, I GUESS TECHNICALLY AN ALUMINUM WINDOW IF IT MET THE SPECIFICATIONS, WHICH, UM, THESE DON'T BECAUSE THEY HAVE A NAILING FIN AND THE PHOTO DIVIDED LIGHTS. SO THE, THE WINDOW ISSUE IS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN THIS REQUEST IN, AND YOU WEREN'T A PARTY TO THE NO FIRST PASS. SO DON'T TAKE THIS AS PICKING ON YOU. BUT THIS CAME IN AS A COMPLIANCE CASE. IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF DEMOLITION DONE WITHOUT APPROVAL. IT TOOK A LENGTHY SITE VISIT TO MAKE SENSE OF THE HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT WAS ON SITE. MM-HMM. , UM, REPLACEMENT OF THE HISTORIC ELEMENTS OF THE WINDOWS IN THE LOCATIONS THAT WERE PREVIOUS APPRO PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. AND A COMMITMENT FROM THE OWNER THAT THE HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT HAD BEEN REMOVED WITHOUT APPROVAL, THAT THEY WOULD BE PROTECTED AND REINSTALLED IN THE LOCATIONS THAT, UH, THIS COMMISSION HAD APPROVED. THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH OF ONE OF THOSE WINDOWS SITTING OUTSIDE, ACTUALLY ALL OF THEM SITTING OUTSIDE THE STRUCTURE EXPOSED TO ELEMENTS, WHICH IS CONCERNING BECAUSE THE INTEGRITY OF [02:50:01] THE HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT WERE REMOVED WERE VERY WELL PRESERVED AND REUSABLE AND SINCE THE LAST APPROVAL, AND NOW THERE'S SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO THAT MATERIAL. SO TO ME, THERE'S TWO ISSUES HERE. THERE'S FIRST, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PLAN AND THE HISTORIC MATERIAL THAT WAS ON SITE AND SUPPOSED TO BE REUTILIZED, WHICH IS CONNECTED TO YOUR NEW REQUEST BECAUSE ONE OF THOSE WINDOWS WAS GOING WHERE THOSE TRANSOM WINDOWS ARE BEING PROPOSED, CORRECT? WELL, TWO OF THEM. THERE WERE TWO THAT WERE IRREGULARLY GANGED BEFORE THE DEMOLITION OF THAT WALL HAPPENED. IS IT THE SAME OWNER? YOU'RE JUST A NEW CONTRACTOR ON THE PROPERTY? THAT'S CORRECT. AND IS THE OWNER TRYING TO, IF IT'S THE SAME OWNER AND THE OWNER KNEW WHAT HE HAD GOTTEN APPROVED AND HE ALSO KNEW WE HAD TO KEEP THE WINDOWS AND REUSE THEM. IN FAIRNESS, IN FAIRNESS TO THE OWNER, HE WAS RELYING HEAVILY ON HIS CONTRACTOR AND HIS CONTRACTOR WAS THERE THROUGH ALL THOSE MEETINGS. SO I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS ROLE, BUT SINCE YOU WERE THERE AND NOW, WHAT'S THE PROGRESS? WHAT HAS THERE BEEN DONE TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, HELP? SO THE, SO IN THE LOCATION WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE PROPOSED TRANSOM WINDOWS, HISTORIC WINDOWS HAVE BEEN REMOVED, THE SIDING HAS BEEN REMOVED, THE WALL HAS BEEN REFRAMED, AND SOMETHING ELSE IS PROPOSED IN ITS PLACE. ALL THE DEMOLITION TO THE REAR AND THE REAR ADDITION HAD ALREADY OCCURRED AS A VIOLATION BEFORE THE LAST ROUND OF APPROVALS. AND WE WORKED THROUGH ALL THAT. AND, UH, WHILE THERE ARE CHANGES TO THAT, NOTHING STANDS OUT TO ME AS BEING PROBLEMATIC. IT'S THE REALLY, THE ORIGINAL HOUSE, THE HISTORIC MATERIAL AND, UH, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THOSE WINDOWS AND WHY ARE WE ASKING FOR CHANGES NOW, BUT ALSO THOSE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS ARE NOT WHAT WERE AGREED UPON. ALSO, THE REPLACEMENT WINDOWS ARE NOT WHAT ARE AGREED UPON. WELL, THAT'S WHAT MY QUESTION IS, DON'T MEET THE REQUIREMENT. SO SINCE THEN, TWO NEW WINDOWS HAVE BEEN INSTALLED THAT DON'T MEET THE REQUIREMENT. THE WINDOWS HAVE NOT BEEN TAKEN CARE OF OR PROTECTED. I DON'T UNDERSTAND IF THERE'S REALLY IS A, AN INTENT FROM THE OWNER TO REALLY COMPLY WITH WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR. SO I HAVE A QUESTION REAL QUICK. WERE THESE WINDOWS THAT ARE NON-COMP COMPLYING, WERE THEY PUT IN BY THE PREVIOUS CONTRACTOR? YES, SIR. SO EVERYTHING THAT, UM, I THOUGHT I HAD, SO YEAH, EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE ON PICTURE WISE IS FROM THE PREVIOUS CONTRACTOR, NOT FROM ME. I'M PRETTY MUCH ALSO JUST DOING MY DUE DILIGENCE OF COMING FORWARD ASKING, AND THAT WAY I CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT AND SAY I TRIED AND THEN MOVE FORWARD. SO, AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IT APPEARS THAT WE GOT A RIDE ON THE FIRST, UH, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST PATH THAT WE GAVE THE OWNER. MM-HMM. SO, UM, IT AND THE, UH, ALUMINUM WINDOWS CLAD, UM, AGAIN, THE CONTRACTOR'S THE ONE THAT INSTALLED THOSE. SO AT NO FAULT OF THE OWNER, 'CAUSE THE OWNER WASN'T AROUND, THE OWNER WAS AT WORK OR, UM, AT MEETINGS, UM, NOT HERE IN THE CITY. SO HE RELIED ON HIS CONTRACTOR TO INSTALL IT. SO UNFORTUNATELY, THE, THE CONTRACTOR DID INSTALL THE WRONG WINDOWS. AND BECAUSE THE CONTRACTOR EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT THEY'RE ALUMINUM WINDOWS AND THAT'S WHAT HE WAS APPROVED OF, HE FELT THAT OH, OKAY. ALUMINUM, ALUMINUM WINDOWS. HE DIDN'T REFER TO ALUMINUM CLAD WINDOWS. WELL, I, I FELT LIKE THE SPECIFICATION, UH, WAS IN THE APPROVAL AND OUR EXPECTATIONS OF THE WINDOW MATERIALS WAS MADE VERY CLEAR TO THE OWNER AND THE PREVIOUS CONTRACTOR. THAT'S KIND OF HERE NOR THERE. MM-HMM. , I THINK ON THE ADDITION, THE, THERE WAS AN INTEREST IN ALUMINUM CLAD WOOD THAT FELT, UH, TO BE OKAY, BUT ALL OF THE FENESTRATION ON THE HISTORIC PART OF THE BUILDING WAS TO BE HISTORIC WINDOWS RECONFIGURED FROM THEIR PRESENT STATE. FOR INSTANCE, ON THE REAR WALL, THERE WERE INTACT HISTORIC WINDOWS THAT WERE TO BE RELOCATED OR THERE WAS A PLAN MM-HMM. AND THEY'RE ALL, THEY'RE ALL OUT IN, IN THE YARD RIGHT NOW. WELL, I, I THINK WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL DECISIONS THAT WERE MADE AND APPROVALS THAT WERE GRANTED. AND SO I THINK IF WE LOOK AT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS, THAT ESSENTIALLY DOES THAT. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL, UH, AS PER YES, SIR. COULD STAFF INTERJECT? UH, SO THERE, THERE ARE ALSO A FEW OTHER ITEMS, UM, THAT, UM, THE ORIGINAL SIDING HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE. THERE'S NO ORIGINAL SIDING ON SITE. UM, ALL OF THE FRAMING IS NEW. UH, SO THE FIFTH REQUEST ITEM, UM, IS THAT THE APPLICANT INSTALL NEW SIDING IN THE PROFILE OF THAT, OF THE ORIGINAL OR THE YEAH, [02:55:01] CORRECT. THAT OF THE ORIGINAL. UM, SO THAT WOULD ALSO NEED ACTION, BUT THAT'S NOT INCLUDED IN OUR ORIGINAL, UM, APPROVAL AND WAS NOT ADDRESSED, UH, WHEN THIS CAME TO THE COMMISSION. SO, SO THE HISTORIC MATERIAL, THE SIGHTING HAS BEEN LOST. IT MUST BE REPLACED IN WOOD WITH, UH, WITH WOOD PROPER PROFILE, CORRECT? CORRECT. THE PHOTOS THAT ARE ON THE SCREEN NOW ARE FROM THE ORIGINAL PORTION OF THE STRUCTURE. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S NO SIDING. IT'S ONLY HOUSE WRAP CLARIFICATION FOR, FOR FROM STAFF. UH, THERE'S ONE GABLE THAT SHOWS, UH, THE SIDING. IS THAT THE SIDING THAT, UH, THEY WOULD BE HELD TO OR? YES, SIR. OKAY. CORRECT. THE, THE SIDING. SO THERE'S EVIDENCE OF THE SIDING RIGHT AT THAT GABLE THAT YOU SEE THE GRAY AND WHITE. SO JUST CORRECT. THAT WOULD'VE BEEN TAKEN OFF TOO, BUT HIS LADDER BROKE. OH, I GOT YOU. . I GOT YOU. SO, SO, AND, AND IT'S A TYPICAL, UM, YEAH, IT DOES STOP SIDING, RIGHT? IT'S NOT A CUSTOM PROFILE. IT'S NOT A CUSTOM PROFILE. NO, SIR. AND JUST MAKE SURE THE WINDOW SIZES ARE ALSO CORRECT. 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE SOME OF THOSE WINDOWS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN INSTALLED, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET THEM APPROVED TODAY, IS THE, THEY'RE NOT, THE FENESTRATION SIZE IS NOT, IT'S NOT WITH WHAT WAS APPROVED ORIGINALLY. OKAY. SO ON THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS, GOING BACK TO WHAT Y'ALL ORIGINALLY APPROVED, HAS TO GO IN, KEEPING THESE AND PUTTING ON WINDOW SCREENS IS NOT AN OPTION. CORRECT. OKAY. AND THEN TRANSOM WINDOWS, I CAN GO AHEAD AND INSTALL THE EXISTING WINDOWS, BUT I CAN GO AHEAD AND SHEET ROCK THE INSIDE OF IT TO ALLOW THEM TO HAVE LIGHT COMING IN AT LEAST AND NOT PRIVILEGE LOOKING IN. AND IF YOU WANT TO BRING THAT DETAIL BACK TO STAFF, THEY CAN OKAY. WORK WITH YOU TO FIND WHAT'S APPROPRIATE, I BELIEVE. OKAY. THERE'S A SOLUTION THERE TO ACCOMMODATE THE TWO SHOWERS WITH THE TWO WINDOWS WITH THAT KIND OF MODIFICATION. BECAUSE THERE WERE IN FACT TWO WINDOWS IN THAT LOCATION, CORRECT. A PHOTO OF THAT WALL. MM-HMM. WOULD TELL US WHERE AND WHAT SCALE TO PUT THEM AND TO MODIFY THEM TO ACHIEVE THE OUTCOME THAT YOU NEED. SO THAT'S WORKABLE. OKAY. UM, THE, BUT THEY WERE PAIRED, BUT I'M GONNA SEPARATE 'EM. THEY WERE IRREGULARLY AND IRRATIONALLY PAIRED. PAIRED, YES. SO I THINK THAT'S OKAY. OKAY, GOOD. UM, ALSO, THERE, THERE WAS A WINDOW THAT WAS REMOVED FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. IT WAS LOCATED UP TO THE RIGHT OF THE FRONT DOOR. AT SOME POINT IT WAS REMOVED AND PUT SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE HOUSE A LONG TIME AGO. THAT WAS A DOOR. THERE WAS TWO DOORS. DO YOU SEE THE WINDOW TO THE LEFT OF THE FRONT DOOR? OH, TO THE LEFT. MY APOLOGIES. IN, IN, THERE'S THAT, YOU HAVE THE COPY OF THAT WINDOW THAT I SAW IN THE YARD. UHHUH . WE APPROVED THAT WINDOW IN TRANSOM TO REPLACE THE DOOR TO THE RIGHT. YES. 'CAUSE THAT WAS A LATER MODIFICATION, BUT ONLY ONE WINDOW CAN GO THERE. AND IT'S THE ONE THAT MATCHES THE ONE TO THE LEFT OF THE DOOR, WHICH IS IN THE YARD WITH THE LEAVES ON THE SEAL, THE SILT. CORRECT. SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE A WINDOW TO THE LEFT OF IT AND THE WINDOW TO THE RIGHT OF IT. YES. THAT'S WHAT'S IN YOUR DRAWINGS. YOU'RE STILL DOING THAT, CORRECT? YES. MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE RIGHT WINDOW THERE BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SWAP IT OUT. THAT WAS THE ONE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. OKAY. I WAS TRYING TO FORM FORMULATE ONE. SO, UM, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET IT RIGHT HERE. SO I MOVE FOR APPROVAL WITH STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, ONE THROUGH FIVE AND WITH A FURTHER CLARIFICATION ON, ON FIVE THAT THE, UM, UH, THE REPLACEMENT SITING MATCHES THE ORIGINAL WITH SIDING BASED UPON FINDING D. AND JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, THAT WITH APPROVAL OF STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ON ITEMS THREE AND FOUR, THAT'S A, THAT'S A DENIAL. AYE. SECOND. HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION IN FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. I, I'D, I'D ADD QUESTIONS. I WOULD GO TO STAFF AND THEY CAN CLARIFY IF, IF, IF YOU'D LIKE A WALKTHROUGH TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MATERIAL IS BEING TREATED LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO ON PREVIOUS APPROVALS. ASK STAFF TO SCHEDULE A D R C. WE'LL MAKE OKAY. AGENDA [B-21 20-1702 Address/Description: 7134 SYMPHONY LANE HDRC Case No.: 2020-016 Historic District Name: Mission RIO District: RIO-5 Applicant: BROWN G CARROLL Request: Construction of an addition to a rear accessory structure City Council Dist.: 3] ITEM B 21 H D R C CASE NUMBER 20 20 0 16 71 34 SYMPHONY LANE. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO CONSTRUCT A REAR SIDE EDITION OF FOUR BAYS ONTO AN EXISTING SEVEN BAY GARAGE. STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL BASED ON FINDING B IF THE COMMISSION IS COMPELLED TO APPROVE THE REQUEST, THEN STAFF STIPULATES THE UPDATED FINAL CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS THAT ARE ACCURATE, MEASURED, LABELED, AND TO SCALE BE SUBMITTED PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE APPLICANT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR OBTAINING ALL PERMITS AND SEEKING ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION OR PERMISSION RELATED TO ZONING PRIOR TO CONSTRUCTION. THE APPLICANT HERE PLEASE. [03:00:10] HI, MY NAME IS CAROL BROWN. I LIVE AT 71 34 SYMPHONY LANE. UM, YOUR STAFF WAS NOT PARTICULARLY IMPRESSED WITH SOME OF MY DRAWINGS, SO I GOT THE ORIGINAL LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTURAL DRAWINGS HERE. I DON'T KNOW, CAN YOU DEAL WITH THIS? PERFECT. LET ME MAKE A, A FEW REMARKS. FIRST OF ALL, THIS HAS NO WINDOWS, SO WE WON'T GET INTO THAT . UH, SOME PEOPLE COLLECT STAMPS. I DON'T, BUT I DO COLLECT CARVES. THEY TAKE UP A LOT MORE SPACE. THE LOT IS ABOUT, UH, THREE AND A HALF ACRES. ALL OF THE LOTS IN THE AREA ARE LARGE. SOME OF THEM ARE MORE THAN SIX ACRES. THE, THESE LANDSCAPE DRAWINGS ARE TO SCALE. THIS WAS WHAT WAS PREPARED BY LARRY DIMARTINO. UM, AND EVERYTHING YOU SEE HAS BEEN APPROVED, UH, AT VARIOUS STAGES BY THIS COMMISSION. ALL MATERIALS FOR THIS, UH, PROJECT ARE IDENTICAL. UH, THE EXISTING BUILDING, UH, OBVIOUSLY STAMPED ENGINEERING DRAWINGS WILL BE AVAILABLE WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT. AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO, UH, ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS POSSIBLE. UH, I HAVE THREE DIFFERENT STORAGE AREAS. I WOULD LIKE TO CONSOLIDATE THOSE INTO ONE, SEVERAL REASONS. THE MAIN ONE IS ALMOST 30 MILES AWAY, AND SOMEHOW I JUST, I, I CAN'T SEEM TO GET THERE. SO CARS ARE NOT BEING MAINTAINED, UH, AS THEY SHOULD. SECOND, I CROAK, MY KIDS DON'T HAVE TO GO RUNNING AROUND ALL OVER THE COUNTRY LOOKING FOR WHAT I LEFT. UH, WHERE, AND THIRD, A FRIEND OF MINE, LONG-TERM FRIEND OF MINE WHO ACTUALLY WORKED FOR ME AT BROOKS AIR FORCE BASE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AFTER HIS RETIREMENT, UM, TOLD ME ONE DAY HE WAS LEAVING ALL HIS ASSETS TO ME AS A TRAIN COLLECTION THAT IS PROBABLY WITHIN THE ONE TO FOUR RANGE OF ANYONE IN THE UNITED STATES. SO I ASKED HIM, WHY ARE YOU, WHY ARE YOU GIVING THIS TO ME? HE SAID, BECAUSE YOU'RE A HOARDER AND I KNOW YOU'LL KEEP IT. AND THAT'S THE ONLY REQUEST HE MADE, WHICH ALL I CAN DO IS IN MY LIFETIME. HE SAYS, DON'T SELL OR BREAK UP THE TRAIN COLLECTION. WELL, I LIKE TRAINS, BUT I'M NOT INTO THEM LIKE HE WAS. SO I PLAN ON STORING ALL THE STUFF THAT'S FAR AWAY, UH, IN THIS BUILDING. AND OF COURSE, WHEN I DIE, MY KIDS WILL SELL IT FOR DIME A BOX, BUT AT LEAST I WILL MAINTAIN CONTROL, UH, HONOR WHILE I CAN. UM, I THINK, I THINK YOU CAN SEE, WELL, MAYBE I SHOULD ASK YOU WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE OR KNOW OR UNDERSTAND, BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN THAT'S IN THE PACKET. THE, UH, WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. OH, SORRY, DO, SORRY, I'M HAVING TROUBLE HEARING YOU. OH, UH, WE DO HAVE A CITIZEN TO BE HEARD. UM, IF WE'LL LET THEM SPEAK AND THEN WE'LL CALL YOU BACK UP FOR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION. OKAY. AND THEN EDWARD, I THINK ONE OF THE ACTUALLY [03:05:01] MOST BENEFICIAL THINGS TO LOOK AT IS THE SATELLITE VIEW. UM, OKAY, SO ROWENA LOPEZ, UM, MR. BROWN, IF YOU'LL JUST TAKE A SEAT, UM, WE'LL HAVE OUR SPEAKER AND THEN YOU'LL, YOU'LL GET TO RETURN MEETINGS AND SALUTATIONS. MY NAME IS ROWENA LOPEZ. I LIVE ACROSS THE STREET FROM CAROL BROWN. ACCORDING TO THIS DOCUMENT HERE, IT SAYS INCREASE FRONT YARD FENCE HEIGHT ALSO. AND THAT'S MY CONCERN BECAUSE I LIVE RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. I WANTED TO KNOW HOW HIGH THAT FENCE WAS GOING TO BE. AND ALSO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE GATE THAT GOES INTO HIS PROPERTY BECAUSE HE HAS A 18 WHEELER, A RIG THAT GOES IN AND OUT OF THAT PROPERTY. ONE TIME HE KNOCKED DOWN THE, UM, MAILBOX THAT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT AND HE WAS VERY KIND AND HAD THAT MOVED TO ANOTHER PART OF MY PROPERTY. BUT I HAVE A FIG TREE AND A PLUM TREE THAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT. AND WITH THE GATES THE WAY THEY ARE, I'M AFRAID THAT BIG RIG WON'T BE ABLE TO GET IN AND OUT WITHOUT HITTING THAT FIG TREE AND THAT PLUM TREE. AND THAT'S MY CONCERN. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR YOU JUST TO POINT THE, TO THAT AREA THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH A LASER POINTER ON THE SATELLITE? I, I THINK THE FENCE IS RIGHT HERE. RIGHT THERE. AND MY PROPERTY IS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. SO I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIG TREE. THE PLUM TREE THAT'S RIGHT THERE WHEN HE COMES IN WITH A BIG RIG, WHEN HE COMES IN TO COME BACK HERE TO THE BACK. MY, AND THAT'S MY CONCERN. AND I, I DON'T THINK THE FENCE, I MEAN, HOW HIGH IS IT GOING TO BE? HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO BE? IS IT GOING TO LOOK LIKE THE GRADE WALL OF CHINA? UM, THAT'S, UH, AND IT'S ALSO CEMENT BLOCK. AND SO THOSE ARE MY CONCERNS. THANK YOU. MAY I RESPOND TO THOSE COMMENTS? YES SIR. PLEASE. OKAY. UH, WE ARE AT A DEAD END STREET. A LOT OF BAD THINGS HAPPENED THERE. ANIMAL CONTROL JUST REMOVED 11 DOGS THAT HAVE BEEN DUMPED THERE SOME THIS MORNING. LET ME SHOW YOU, UH, RIGHT HERE. OKAY, HERE'S THE STREET, STREET ENDS ABOUT RIGHT HERE. WE'VE HAD THINGS KNOCKED DOWN REPEATED DAY FROM BASICALLY TRUNK DRIVERS. THEY COME DOWN THERE. WE HAD A PERIOD OF, OF PEOPLE BASICALLY HAVING, HAVING SEX IN THE FRONT YARD DAILY. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS. THEY COME DOWN HERE, THEY GO DOWN THIS MAN'S DRIVEWAY, THEY GO AROUND HIS HOUSE AND DRIVE IN THE POOL. WE HAVE PROBLEMS LIKE THIS ALL THE TIME. SO I HAVE ALREADY GOT THE PERMIT FOR, UH, INSTALLING A ROLLING GATE. A LARGE PORTION IS TO CUT OUT PATHETIC STRAY ANIMALS. I FEEL SORRY FOR THEM , BUT WE ARE INUNDATED. MOST OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DOGS. SO ALL THE CATS CONGREGATE ON OUR DOORSTEP. FORTUNATELY, ANIMAL CONTROL HAS GIVEN ME INSTRUCTIONS OF HOW TO, UH, BETTER DEAL WITH THAT. BUT, UM, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS AT THE END OF THE STREET, ACCORDING TO THE PREVIOUS RESPONDENT IS MY FAULT. YOU DON'T BELIEVE CHECK CODE COMPLIANCE, CHECK THE CITY POLICE REPORTS. YOU'LL FIND THAT APPARENTLY SHE HAS IT ON SPEED DIAL. UH, I AM NOT PARTICULARLY SYMPATHETIC. [03:10:01] SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT MEAN THEIR PROPERTY WELL AT ALL, THAT I'M REALLY NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING THEIR PERCEPTIONS OF MINE. I THINK WE NEED TO STAY ON TOPIC WITH THE REQUEST IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION. I, I REQUEST FOR, UH, I'M LOOKING FOR THE FENCE IN THE REQUEST. AND, AND I ALSO AGREE, I DON'T, I I DON'T KNOW THAT WE REVIEWED A FENCE IN THIS APPLICATION. WAS THAT INTENDED TO BE INCLUDED IN THE DRAWINGS? THE, THE FENCE IN THIS REQUEST WAS TO RAISE AN EXISTING FOUR FOOT FENCE TO A SIX FOOT FENCE, WHICH IS BURIED IN VEGETATION. YOU CAN ONLY SEE IT IF YOU WALK UP AND, AND PART THE TREES. THE REASON FOR THAT IS, IS VANDALISM AND THEFT. MY SIDE YARD TO MY NEIGHBOR IS CONSTANTLY CRUSHED COMING. I THINK MR. BROWN, WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT WE DON'T SEE IT IN WRITING IN THE REQUEST AND IT HAS TO BE LIKE, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT STAFF, I APOLOGIZE. I THINK THAT WAS MISSING THE APPLICATION. UM, AND SO THAT WAS NOT ADDRESSED IN THE POSTED AGENDA TODAY. UM, SO ON THE, ON THE TOP OF THE APPLICATION, THE TYPE OF WORK IT LISTS THE INCREASE FRONT YARD FENCE HEIGHT, AND THEN IN THE LATER REQUEST EXPLANATION, IT'S NOT SHOWN, YOU SAID AGENDIZED OR NOT. WHETHER OR NOT Y'ALL REVIEWED THAT ISSUE OR NOT IS A DIFFERENT QUESTION. SO I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS ON THE AGENDA, BUT THE SUPPORTING MATERIAL IS NOT SUFFICIENT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE THAT. AND THERE ARE CERTAIN STANDARDS FOR SUBMISSION OF MATERIALS TO THIS COMMISSION. AND, YOU KNOW, NOT, NOT WANTING TO HURT YOUR FEELINGS ON, ON THE DRAFTING. I WAS HAVING A HARD TIME EVEN UNDERSTANDING ON THE SITE PLAN WHERE THIS IS GOING. I DON'T THINK THERE'S SUFFICIENT INFORMATION FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY JUDGE THIS. AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT IN THE CASE OF, OF THE, UH, DEFENSE. 'CAUSE WE HAVE NOTHING ABOUT THE MATERIALS. WE DON'T HAVE ANY DRAWINGS TO SUPPORT THAT. WE HAVE JUST ONE LITTLE LINE ITEM. AND SO I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT PERHAPS YOU WITHDRAW THIS, GET YOUR, YOUR DRAWINGS A LITTLE FURTHER ALONG AND COME BACK WITH THE SAMPLE MATERIALS OF WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING FOR THE FENCE. A DRAWING OF THE, OF THE FENCE IS OVERALL FINAL HEIGHT, ONCE IT'S INCREASED AND THEN WE CAN MAKE A A, A RULING ON IT. OKAY. BUT I HAVE ALREADY SUBMITTED DRAWINGS THAT SHOWS PRECISELY WHERE THE ADDITION IS GOING. I HAVE A LARGE SCALE DRAWING WITH ME THAT, UH, WE CAN PUT UP HERE. UM, SO THE APPLIC MATERIALS, THEY SUBMIT SOME KIND OF DRAWING. MAYBE IT'S JUST MAYBE A D R C WOULD HELP US UNDERSTAND IT. SO WE DON'T HAVE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, SIT HERE. SIR. I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS. AND I THINK THIS CASE IS PARTICULARLY SPECIAL DUE TO THE SIZE OF THE LOT AND WHAT'S ALREADY EXISTING. AND I THINK WHAT STAFF HAS A HARD TIME RECOMMENDING APPROVAL IS BECAUSE WHAT'S EXISTING IS NOT HIS, SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD FIND HISTORICALLY. BUT YOU ALREADY HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR. I UNDERSTAND YOUR STORY AND WE ALSO SEE EACH CASE IS AS DIFFERENT. UM, I'M JUST, UH, AND I THINK THAT WE MAYBE HAVE A DIFFICULTY SEEING, UM, SCALE OF THE HOUSE VERSUS THE GARAGE. I MEAN, EVERYTHING IS, EVERYTHING IS ATTACHED NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY. THE GARAGE IS ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE. GARAGE IS ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE. AND ACCORDING TO CITY RULES, IF THE STRUCTURES ARE ALL ATTACHED WITH COVERED WALLED ROOFED SPACE, THEY ARE PART OF THE HOUSE. NOW I, I REALIZE PEOPLE MAY NOT BE EXCITED ABOUT THE SIZE OF WHAT I'M REQUESTING, BUT YOU CAN'T SEE ON THE PROPERTY. YOU CAN'T SEE OFF THE PROPERTY. YOUR GOOGLE EARTH PICTURE IS THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN SEE THIS ACRES. WELL, THE GARAGE IS VISIBLE FROM RIVER. HOW MANY ACRES IS, NO, IT'S NOT. NOT AT ALL. UH, QUESTION MR. BROWN. YES. IF YOU GO TO, UH, PHOTO 23, THIS A PHOTO OF YOUR GATE? YES. OKAY. IT LOOKS LIKE THE FENCE ON EITHER OF THE GATE. OH, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT THE FENCE. OKAY. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FENCE. OKAY. SO BEYOND THE FENCE IS NOT IN LINE WITH THIS GATE? NO. THE, THE REASON FOR THE, THE REASON FOR ALL OF THAT IS, IS TWO, ONE, I HAVE A SEPARATE WALK GATE TO THE SIDE TO, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP IT OPEN ALL THE TIME. AND WHEN IT IS OPEN, I WANT IT CLEAN, CLEAR. I DON'T WANT TO SEE A GATE. AND SO [03:15:01] IT GOES BACK, UH, BASICALLY IN HIDING. UH, AND THE GATE, THE, THE GATE WILL BE THE ONLY HISTORICAL THING ON THIS PROPERTY. THE GATES ARE, THE GATE IS BEING MADE FROM FIVE PANELS THAT CAME FROM A HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT IN CAIRO, EGYPT IN 1800. UM, THE INDIVIDUAL IS PUTTING ALL THIS TOGETHER, BOUGHT THEM FROM AN AUCTION IN FRANCE. THE ORIGINAL DESIGN FOR THE GATE WAS A MUSICAL MOTIF BECAUSE I TOLD THE DESIGNER I WANTED SOMETHING THAT WAS NEVER SEEN IN SAN ANTONIO EVER ANYWHERE. WELL, HE DID JUST THAT. IT WAS FANTASTIC. MY WIFE TOOK ONE LOOK AND EXPLODED. SO WE DIDN'T GET THAT GATE. BUT THIS ONE IS, IS ACCEPTABLE TO ME. AND UH, SHE LIKES IT. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, WE'RE IN A HISTORICAL DISTRICT. THIS IS NEXT TO THE OLDEST HOUSE THERE, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HISTORIC ABOUT IT. AND I'M FINE WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT I REALLY, I REALLY FEEL LIKE AS LONG AS I AM BEING CORRECT AND LEGAL, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO EXTEND, UH, THE GARAGE. THERE ARE OTHER PICTURES THAT I SUBMITTED. CAN WE, CAN WE ASK SOME QUESTIONS OF STAFF FOR A FEW MINUTES, PLEASE? SURE. FOR CLARIFICATION. 'CAUSE I'M REALLY F FRUSTRATED WITH THIS SUBMISSION RIGHT NOW. UM, I THINK IT'S, IT, IT ISN'T SUFFICIENT. AND IN THE DOCUMENTATION, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT. COULD WE GO TO, UH, NUMBER THREE? PAGE NUMBER THREE IN THE SUBMISSION IS THE, IS THE AERIAL SITE PLAN. RIGHT? OKAY. AND THE ADDITION IS GOING TO THE RIGHT OF THAT LONG EXTENDED AREA, CORRECT? YES. IT LOOKS LIKE IT WRAPS AROUND TO THE NORTH SIDE OF YOUR EXISTING GARAGE PARTIALLY. RIGHT. THERE'S KINDA LIKE A PANHANDLE PORTION THAT WRAPS AROUND. I OWN A SECTION OF PROPERTY THERE. SO YOU OWN THE SECTION, UH, THAT'S BEHIND THERE. YOU OWN ALL THAT PROPERTY. IS IT ALL PLOTTED AS ONE PROPERTY OR IS IT THIS TWO PIECES, TWO LEGAL PIECES, PROPERTY? THIS RIGHT HERE, THIS LINE RIGHT HERE. AND IT GOES OUT TO A DRIVEWAY THAT GOES OUT THIS WAY, WHICH I HAVE NEVER USED, ALTHOUGH I HAVE LEGAL RIGHT TO IT. THE LINE RIGHT THERE IS NOT QUITE CORRECT. UH, THERE BEHIND THIS AREA RIGHT THERE IS 26 AND A HALF FEET. AND I HAD PLANNED TO WRAP A CORNER OF THAT AROUND THERE. THE MAJOR REASON BEING, UH, YOU SEE THE PROPERTY IS NOT, IT'S NOT SQUARE BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. SO THIS SIDE OF THE BUILDING IS LIKE, I FORGET, 70, 80 FEET. BUT THIS, THIS SIDE, UH, ACROSS THE BACK'S ONLY 56 FEET BECAUSE IT'S SHAPED LIKE SO. AND THAT IS, UH, ALLOWING A FIVE FOOT SETBACK IN ALL DIRECTIONS. SO YOU DON'T OWN THAT SECTION TO THE RIGHT? OH YES. ALL THE WAY DOWN THE WATER TO THE RIVER. NO, NO, NO, NO. OH, YOU DON'T OWN THAT. I FIGURE THIS YOU OWN WHERE THE LINE IS? THAT IS THE LINE RIGHT THERE. YEAH. BUT THAT HAS ABOUT 24 FOOT TALL BAMBOO. CAN WE LOOK AT PROBABLY ABOUT 20 FEET THICK. EDWARD, CAN WE LOOK AT, UH, CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE PHOTO 16. SORRY, WHAT? EDWARD'S PULLING UP ANOTHER PLAN WHERE YOU'VE SKETCHED IN THE, UH, THE ADDITION. YES. SO YOU OWN THE PROPERTY THAT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE A FIVE FOOT SETBACK ON THE TWO SIDES, THE ANGLED SIDE AND THE REAR OF THIS ADDITION. YES. SO THERE'S FIVE, IT'S FIVE PLUS FEET FROM ANY PROPERTY LINE, A LITTLE, UH, RECTANGULAR SHAPE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT. TALKING ABOUT THIS. YES, SIR. INTERESTING. YOU SHOULD ASK, UH, WHEN I ORIGINALLY, UH, SUBMITTED THIS PLAN, I ASK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE. AND SO WE MIGHT AS WELL JUST COMPLICATE THINGS WHILE WE'RE AT IT. I ASK WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO BUILD ABOUT A 1930S REPLICA GAS STATION, [03:20:02] WHICH WOULD BE INCORPORATED IN, TIED INTO THE GARAGE? THE SUGGESTION WAS DON'T COMPLICATE THINGS ANYMORE. . I, I'D RATHER HAVE THAT. I FEEL LIKE MAYBE WE SHOULD GET TO KNOW YOUR PROJECT AS A WHOLE FOR US TO, I DON'T KNOW. BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THE GUIDELINES ARE BINDING US TO NOT, IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO FIND THE WAY TO APPROVE THIS WITH THE GUIDELINES AND WHICH CASE AND JUST GIVING YOU THIS APPROVAL. WE CAN SAY THAT CONCEPTUALLY. I MEAN, THERE'S SOME, YES. I MEAN, YOU CAN DO AN EXTENSION OF THE HOUSE BECAUSE LOT SIZE, LOT COVERAGE IS STILL GOOD. BUT HOW THAT LOOKS AND IF YOU WANNA DO A REPLICA OF A 19 HUNDREDS GAS STATION, I WOULD EVEN, YOU KNOW, BE MORE OPEN TO SEE THAT THAN JUST, UH, METAL. I'LL TRY TO REMEMBER THAT. YEAH, I MEAN THERE, THERE ARE, I AGREE. I THINK WE NEED TO GET TO KNOW THIS BETTER. IT'S, THERE'S TOO MUCH COMPLEXITY HERE AND IT'S GETTING RATHER LATE. SO I DO HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF TO MAYBE INVESTIGATE FOR US IS THAT THIS BUILDING STRUCTURES ACROSS PROPERTY LINES. IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO REQUIRES YOU TO REPL IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT. SO THAT'S ONE THING THAT I THROW OUT THERE THAT'S NOT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW, BUT IS SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, A A, AN IMMEDIATE QUESTION THAT COMES UP FOR ME ON THIS. I WOULD MOVE FOR THIS TO GO TO A DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE, UH, MEETING IN THE NEAR FUTURE. I WOULD SECOND THAT. I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DRAWINGS THAT WE NEED TO WORK, THIS IS A SITE PLAN THAT HAS MEETS AND BOUNDS AND SETBACKS THAT ARE CLEARLY DELINEATED SURVEY. I TRIED TO DRAW THAT. I UNDERSTAND ON THE BASIS THAT IF I MEASURED THREE SIDES OF A ROOM, THEN I WOULD KNOW THE DISTANCE OF THE FOURTH SIDE. SOMEHOW THAT DIDN'T WORK. IT, IT GOT TOTALLY OFF. A REALLY KEY ISSUE IN THE ADDITION TO THE GARAGE IS ITS PROXIMITY TO THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY. ITS VISIBILITY. WE WOULD HAVE NEED A, WE NEED A REAL SITE PLAN TO BE ABLE TO REVIEW THAT. YEAH. AND I THINK WHAT IF I TAKE THIS PLAN RIGHT HERE AND ADD TO IT? WELL, I I THINK WITH THIS IS SUPER ACCURATE. YOU, YOU HAVE SOME GRAND PLANS FOR THIS PROPERTY. SO I THINK HAVING A A REAL UP-TO-DATE ACCURATE SITE PLAN WITH WHAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US TODAY WOULD BE VERY, VERY GOOD FOR THE POTENTIAL OF YOU GETTING THESE, UH, FUTURE PROJECTS PASSED AS WELL. AND SO I THINK THAT, UM, UH, THIS IS A LARGE SITE. WE NEED TO SEE WHAT THE EASEMENTS ARE. WE NEED TO SEE WHAT THE SETBACKS ARE. WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE. SO HAVING THAT DRAWING WOULD GO A MILE IN THIS. I IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON OR THE IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE. RIGHT. YEAH. ON YOUR, ON THE REST OF THE PROPERTY, UM, SITE VISIT IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN, UM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, PREFER THAT OR IF YOU WANT US TO SIT DOWN IN AN INFORMAL MEETING, UM, THE D R C, WE NEED ALSO MORE DETAILS WHERE THAT FENCE IS GOING. WHERE THAT WHAT FENCE? THE FENCE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE. OH, WELL, I, I, I DON'T YOU SUBMITTED A PICTURE, BUT I DON'T, DO WE SEE WHERE IT'S GOING? WE DON'T HAVE A SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS WHERE THE PROPOSED FENCE IS GOING. THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL. AND THE GATE AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF ALL, I THOUGHT IT WAS THERE, BUT, OKAY. AND ALSO ANY CUT SHEETS OF, YOU KNOW, MATERIALS THAT YOU'RE GONNA BE USING IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE MATERIALS ARE. WELL, THE MATERIALS ARE IDENTICAL TO THE EXISTING GARAGE. ZERO CHANGES. I'M, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE, THE GATE, THE IN THE FENCE. THE FENCE. THE FENCE. I, I CAN PROVIDE THAT. WHAT IS THE EXISTING FENCE? SORRY? WHAT IS THE EXISTING FOREFOOT FENCE? IS IT, IT'S, IS IT A METAL FENCE? IS IT A CONCRETE BLOCK FENCE? IS IT OH, NO, NO, NO. IT'S A, WHICH I WAS TOLD WHAT WAS REQUIRED. IT'S CALLED NON-LINE HORSE, NON-LINE FENCE. THAT'S WHAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'VE GOT ON THE ENTIRE BACK OF THE PROPERTY. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WAS TOLD WAS DESIRED. BUT IT, LIKE I SAY, IT'S, IT'S FOUR FOOT AND LOSING PATIENTS. THERE'S OTHER FENCES DOWN THE STREET THAT ARE SIX FEET AND THEY'RE ON THE PROPERTY LINE. THIS IS NOT ON THE PROPERTY LINE. WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT DENYING YOU HAVING THE FENCE. WE JUST GOTTA UNDERSTAND WHERE IS IT GOING, WHAT'S IT MADE, IS IT GOING, WHAT'S IT MADE OF? SO WE JUST NEED MORE MATERIAL, WE NEED MORE INFORMATION IN ORDER TO MAKE THE DECISIONS. OKAY. SO WHAT WOULD BE HELPFUL IS, UH, TO SUPPLEMENT, I MEAN, SOME OF THESE PHOTOS, LIKE THE PHOTOS OF YOUR GATE ARE GREAT, BUT WE'D NEED TO SEE WHERE ARE, WHERE'S THAT EXISTING FENCE [03:25:01] TAKING PLACE AND SEE WHERE THE PROPOSED FENCE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE EXTENT OF IT ON A SITE PLAN. AND I, I REALLY THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE AN UPDATED SURVEY DONE SO THAT YOU, YOU'VE GOT AS, AS WE'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW, AS ACCURATE, UH, INFORMATION AS POSSIBLE FOR SETBACKS AND WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT, AND, AND, AND CAN WE MOVE THIS ALONG? AND IF WE NEED TO SEND IT TO D R C, LET'S DO SO WITH A REQUEST FOR THE INFORMATION THAT YOU'D LIKE THE APPLICANT TO BRING TO THAT MEETING. SURE, YEAH. AND I THINK I, I THOUGHT I ALREADY MADE A MOTION TO DIRECT THIS TO THE D R C CHAIRMAN. I THINK WE HAD A MOTION IN A SECOND. OKAY. UM, DO WE NEED CLARIFICATION ON WHAT THE APPLICANT TO BRING THAT WILL MAKE THAT CLEAR TO THE APPLICANT? OKAY, SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO SEND THIS TO DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. I'LL OPPOSED SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. SO WE'LL MEET WITH YOU SOON. OKAY. [B-22 20-1696 Address/Description: 533 E CARSON HDRC Case No.: 2020-031 Historic District Name: Government Hill Applicant: Mary Jo Vargas Request: Siding and window replacement City Council Dist.: 2] AGENDA ITEM B 22 H D R C CASE NUMBER 2 2 0 3 1 5 3 3. CARSON, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPROVAL TO ONE, REMOVE ALL EXISTING SIDING INSULATION, EXCUSE ME, REMOVE ALL EXISTING SIDING, INSULATE AND SEAL AND INSTALL A NEW COLONIAL STYLE SMOOTH COMPOSITION LAPS SIDING TWO TO REPLACE 13 WOOD WINDOWS INCLUDING LEAD REMEDIATION WITH 13 NEW MATCHING WOOD WINDOWS THREE TO REMOVE TWO WINDOW OPENINGS ON THE SECOND FLOOR BALCONY ENCLOSURE, SAF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF HO WHOLESALE SIDING REPLACEMENT BASED ON FINDING C. THE APPLICANT MAY WORK WITH STAFF TO REPLACE ALUMINUM SIDING WITH MATCHING WOOD SIDING. COMPOSITION SIDING SHOULD BE AVOIDED ON HISTORIC WALL PLANES UNLESS OTHERWISE APPROVED BY THE COMMISSION. STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF WINDOW REPLACEMENT FOR ONLY ONE WINDOW, WHICH IS NOTED AS WINDOW E BASED ON FINDING D. THE OTHER 11 WINDOWS ARE FOUND TO BE REPAIRABLE, WHERE THE APPLICANT MAY REPLACE MISSING OR DETERIORATED ELEMENTS SUCH AS INDIVIDUAL SASHES OR CASING. INSTEAD OF DISCARDING THE COMPLETE, COMPLETE HISTORIC WINDOW SYSTEM. ALL WINDOW REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT MUST ADHERE TO THE STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOW REPLACEMENT STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF WINDOW REMOVAL ON THE FRONT BALCONY. ENCLOSURE, BASED ON FINDING E THE APPLICANT MAY CONSIDER INSTALLING AN INTERIOR FUR WALL TO ACCOMMODATE THE FLOOR. PLAN APPLICANT. HERE PLEASE. GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. MY NAME IS MARY JO VARGAS AND I'M THE PROPERTY OWNER AT 5 3 3 EAST CARSON. UH, I WANNA THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT MY CASE TO YOU TODAY. I UNDERSTAND THE COMMISSION'S GOAL IS HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND I WANNA WORK TOWARDS THAT WHILE PROVIDING A HEALTHY AND SAFE HOME TO TENANTS THAT IS CLEAN, ENERGY EFFICIENT IN A COST EFFECTIVE MANNER THAT ELIMINATES THE PATCHWORK OF SIDING AS AN AND IS IN KEEPING WITH THE DESIGN OF THE AIR. WHILE THE CITY STAFF DOES NOT RECOMMEND WHOLESALE SIDING REPLACEMENT AND FINDS THAT THE 1 0 5 AND ONE 17 WOOD SIDING WOULD BE CONSIDERED IF THE CUSTOM PROFILE COULD NOT BE MILLED, I, I, UH, RECOMMEND THAT REPLACING ALL SIDING BE DONE BECAUSE THERE'S 70% ALUMINUM SIDING, 13%, 1 0 5 SIDING, AND THEN 10% WATERFALL SIDING WITH 7% OF THE PROPERTY BEING ORIGINAL SIDING BECAUSE THE HOUSE HAS GONE THROUGH A NUMBER OF RENOVATIONS AND HAS SUSTAINED TWO SIGNIFICANT FIRES, REMEDIATION IS REALLY NECESSARY. AND DURING THE REMEDIATION OF THE LEAD BASE, IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW ME TO DO SMOKE SEALING OF THE WALL CAVITIES AS WELL AS INSULATE THE EXTERIOR WALLS. THE SMOOTH COMPOSITION SIDING THAT I'M REQUESTING HAS A SIMILAR LOOK TO THE 1 0 5 WOOD SIDING AND WOULD BE IN KEEPING WITH THAT AIR WHILE THE ONE 17 WOOD SIDING, ALSO KNOWN AS WATERFALL SIDING ISN'T KEEPING WITH THE AIR. IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE ORIGINAL SIDING. I'VE BROUGHT A SAMPLE OF THE SIDING THAT I'M PROPOSING, AND THAT IS MORE IN KEEPING WITH THE ORIGINAL SIDING, WHICH I THINK YOU CAN SEE [03:30:01] THAT THAT IS THE PIECE OF THE ORIGINAL SIDING AND THAT'S IN THE FRONT PORCH AREA. SO YOU CAN SEE THE PROFILE OF THAT SIDING IS NOT AT ALL SIMILAR TO A WATERFALL SIDING. AND, UH, TO REPLACE THAT WITH SIMILAR SIDING, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MILLED. AND SO FOR COST REASONS AND FOR SAFETY REASONS, HEALTH REASONS, I'M PROPOSING THAT WE TAKE ALL THE SIDING DOWN AND REPLACE IT WITH A SIMILAR PRODUCT. WHILE IT'S NOT WOOD, IT DOES MEET THE VISUAL HISTORIC, UM, APPEARANCE OF THAT ERROR IN MY PACKET. I DID, UH, EXAMINE ADDITIONAL OPTIONS AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THOSE, I'VE LOOKED AT SOME PRICES AND UM, I'M OPEN TO SOME SUGGESTIONS. UM, UM, I DO HAVE A QUESTION. EDWARD, IF YOU GO TO PHOTO 74 SHOWS THE WATERFALL SIDING, HOW MUCH OF THE HOUSES HAS THIS TYPE OF SIDING? IT'S 10%. IT IS THE AREA THAT WAS ENCLOSED, THE ENCLOSED PORCH THAT WAS AN ADDITION TO THE PROPERTY. I'M NOT SURE WHEN IT'S THAT FRONT AREA. THE PICTURE MAYBE 79 RIGHT AFTER THE PICTURE. OKAY. THIS IS THE AREA WHERE THE WATERFALL SIDING IS. AND THEN IF YOU SCROLL DOWN ONE MORE PICTURE, YOU'LL SEE IT RIGHT HERE. THIS HAS WATERFALL SIDING HERE. AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, WHAT'S UNDERNEATH THE OTHER SIDING? THE VINYL SIDING AND THE, THE ALUMINUM SIDING IS THE ORIGINAL WOOD, WHICH IS PLACED RIGHT HERE. BUT UNDER THAT, BECAUSE IT'S SUSTAINED TWO FIRES, A LOT OF THAT WOOD, IF YOU PEEL IT BACK, HAS ALREADY BEEN CHARRED. AND YOU CAN SEE THAT IN SOME OF THE FIRE DAMAGED AREAS. SO WITHOUT PEELING ALL THE ALUMINUM OFF, I CAN'T SAY WITH CERTAINTY HOW MUCH THERE IS, BUT UM, THERE'S SOME PICTURES WHERE THE ALUMINUM SIDING HASN'T BEEN PEELED BACK AND IT LOOKS OKAY, YOU WOULD SAY NOT BAD, BUT WHEN YOU PEEL THE SIDING BACK, YOU'LL SEE ALL THE DAMAGED WOOD AND THERE IS NO, UM, INSULATION BEHIND IT. BUT THE INS, THE INSULATION CAN BE INSTALLED FROM THE BACKSIDE, RIGHT? THAT CORRECT? YEAH, THAT IS POSSIBLE. BUT WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE, THE WALLS HAVE THE ALUMINUM SIDING WITH THE ORIGINAL WOOD UNDER IT AT LEAST 70%, BUT THAT 7% OF THE ORIGINAL WOOD IS EXPOSED? THAT IS CORRECT. AND, AND I CAN'T SAY WITH CERTAINTY THAT THERE IS ORIGINAL WOOD UNDERNEATH THE ALUMINUM SIDE. I UNDERSTAND. WE WOULD JUST EXPECT THERE LIKELY. IS, UH, IS THERE A LOCATION IN THE HOUSE WHERE THERE'S FIRE DAMAGE THAT'S MOST EVIDENT, OR HOW EXTENSIVE IS THE CHARRING THE FIRE DAMAGE? IT'S PRETTY EXTENSIVE. UM, THERE WERE TWO FIRES. IN FACT, UM, THE DECKING IN THE, UH, ROOF HAD TO BE REPLACED. IT'S ALL CHARRED, UH, AND YOU CAN SEE THE FIRE, UH, IN THE FRONT AS WELL AS IN THE BACK AND ON THE EAST AND WEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. SO IT WENT UNDERNEATH AND THEN SPREAD OUT BECAUSE OF THE WALL CAVITIES BASED, BASED ON WHAT'S THE, WHAT THE REQUEST IS AND THE AMOUNT OF, UH, CHANGE THAT IS BEING REQUESTED, IT APPEARS A SIDE VISIT WOULD BEST, UH, SOLVE THIS BECAUSE THEN WE COULD LOOK AND SEE FIRE DAMAGE HELP, HELP GIVE A SOLUTION FOR WHAT PERCENTAGE CAN BE MITIGATED, UM, JUST TO TRY TO AVOID A WHOLESALE REMOVAL. UM, I UNDERSTAND YOUR YOUR REQUEST FOR THAT AND I UNDERSTAND THE, THE BENEFITS OF DOING A WHOLESALE REMOVAL. I THINK WHAT WE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IS THAT THAT'S THE, THE LAST OPTION, UM, JUST BASED ON PROTECTING THE HISTORIC FABRIC OF THE, OF THIS, OF THE BUILDING. SO I, I THINK, UM, IF, IF YOU GUYS WOULD, WOULD, UH, AGREE I THINK HAVING A UM, [03:35:01] D R C SITE VISIT WOULD BE, UH, WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND. AND THEN WE CAN ALSO SEE WHICH WINDOWS ARE REPAIRABLE OR NOT, AND THEN MAYBE ALSO COMES TO AN AGREEMENT WITH THAT, THE WINDOWS AND SIDING. HAVE YOU AGREED WITH STAFF ON THE, ON THE WINDOW ISSUES OR ARE YOU PROPOSING A DIFFERENT WINDOW ALSO? WELL, MY ORIGINAL REQUEST WAS TO REPLACE ALL 13 WINDOWS. UH, ONE OF THE WINDOWS OF COURSE WAS COMPLETELY DAMAGED. AND IN THE RECOMMENDATION THEY DID SAY THAT THE PELLA ARCHITECTURAL SERIES WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE STANDARDS. AND SO MY PREFERENCE IS TO REPLACE IT WITH THAT TYPE OF WINDOW. UM, AND THEN, UH, THE OTHER WINDOWS, UH, HAVE HAD DAMAGE. I HAD A LEAD BASE REPORT DONE, AND, UM, THEY RECOMMEND REMEDIATION. THE COST IS ABOUT $18,000. AND, UH, MY CONCERN WHEN DOING THAT REMEDIATION IS THAT, UM, WHAT'S HOLDING UP SOME OF THE AREAS OF THE WINDOWS, THE PAINT ITSELF AND THE CAULK. SO IT KEEPS IT IN PLACE AND I'M AFRAID THAT IF WE DO THE REMEDIATION THAT THEY'RE RECOMMENDING, UH, IT WOULD REALLY REQUIRE QUITE A BIT OF RECONSTRUCTION OF THE WINDOWS. UH, THE TENANTS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE WINDOWS IN TERMS OF HOW DRAFTY THEY ARE AND HOW DIFFICULT THEY ARE TO OPEN AND CLOSE. THEY'VE BEEN REPAIRED IN THE PAST AND WE'VE USED WEATHER STRIPPING, BUT BECAUSE OF THE HEAT, ESPECIALLY ON THE WEST SIDE, UM, THAT, UH, WEATHER STRIPPING, IT JUST GETS GUMMY AND YUCKY AND IT REALLY ISN'T VERY EFFECTIVE. WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE PAST IS TO ACTUALLY PUT, UM, PLASTIC BAGS, YOU KNOW, LIKE H E B BAGS TO HELP SECURE THAT AND KEEP THOSE WINDOWS TIGHT. SO MY HOPE WAS TO PROVIDE A WINDOW THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE IN SIZE AND DESIGN THAT WOULD MEET THE STANDARDS OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION, UM, AND THAT I COULD USE THE ARCHITECTURAL PELLE WINDOWS THROUGHOUT SO THAT IT WOULD BE A CONSISTENT LOOK AND NOT JUST, UH, AGAIN, A PATCHWORK OF WINDOWS. SO WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE WINDOWS DURING A SITE VISIT AS WELL. ABSOLUTELY. I WILL SAY, JUST SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS, THE POSITION OF THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION AND WHERE, WHERE WE, UM, HOW WE APPROACH THIS GENERALLY IS WE MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO PRESERVE THE HISTORIC MATERIAL TO THE GREATEST EXTENT THAT WE CAN. THAT IS CORRECT. AND THAT INCLUDES THE WINDOWS AND TYPICALLY THE SIDING. YOU'VE, YOU'VE, UH, MENTIONED SOME THINGS, UH, WITH THE SIDING, UM, THAT I THINK A SITE VISIT WOULD HELP US TO UNDERSTAND, WHICH IS CHAR ROT AND DETERIORATION TO THE EXTENT WE REALLY WANT TO KINDA GET A SENSE OF THE EXTENT THAT THAT'S TRUE. THAT IS CORRECT. AND, AND THE EXTENT OF, OF THE CONDITION OF THE WINDOWS. AND, AND I'VE TRIED TO KEEP THE INSIDE CONSISTENT. YOU KNOW, IT HAS WOOD FLOORS UNDERNEATH, UH, YOU KNOW, THE HIGH CEILING, SO I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP IT IN THAT VEIN. BUT THE OUTSIDE OF THE PROPERTY, IT, IT IS NOT LIKE IT WAS WHEN IT WAS BUILT, YOU KNOW, 50, 60, A HUNDRED YEARS AGO AND, AND THAT BEAUTY HAS GONE AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE A SAFE, UH, PLACE. IT'S WITHOUT WORRY ABOUT HEALTH HAZARDS AND THEN ALSO TO KEEP THAT APPEARANCE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO, UH, SITE WOULD BE WELCOME. THE LAST REQUEST THAT, UH, I HAVE, UM, IS TO REMOVE TWO OF THE WINDOWS THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE REQUEST. AND THAT'S ON THE PORCH SIDE. AND I, I UNDERSTAND THAT THE STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED, UM, NOT REMOVING THEM BECAUSE IT WOULD RESULT IN A SPACE THAT IS NOT VISUALLY INTERPRETED AS A PORCH, BUT INSTEAD A NON-CONFORMING FRONT PORCH ENCLOSURE THAT LACKS FENESTRATION. AND SO WHEN I GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT, I, I STILL FEEL LIKE THAT LOOKS LIKE AN ENCLOSED PORCH WITH WITHOUT THE WINDOWS, WHETHER THEY'RE THERE OR NOT. SO COULD YOU, JEFF, COULD YOU HELP US OUT? THAT TOP PORTION RIGHT HERE IS WHERE I'M PROPOSING THAT THAT WINDOW BE REMOVED. THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ENCLOSED PORCH. I MEAN, IT, IT PATTERNS THE BOTTOM. EXACTLY. UM, AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE RIGHT HERE, I DIDN'T SEE THERE WAS A WINDOW HERE. AND AGAIN, UM, IT STILL LOOKS LIKE AN ENCLOSED PORCH, SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S A WHOLE LOT [03:40:01] YOU COULD DO. YOU COULD MAYBE ADD TWO MORE WINDOWS THERE, BUT IT WOULD STILL LOOK LIKE AN ENCLOSED PORCH. NOW CAN YOU GO TO THE PICTURES, MAYBE LIKE 60 AND ON, KIND OF GET AN IDEA OF, OF WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE OR WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW? UH, YES. BUT RIGHT THERE, THERE'S TWO WINDOWS, RIGHT? RIGHT. AND THAT'S THE COVERED PORCH AREA HERE. THIS IS A BEDROOM AND THEN THIS IS IN FACT A CLOSET. THOSE ARE THOSE WOOD WINDOWS. UM, THAT, YES, UH, THOSE TWO ARE WOOD WINDOWS. OH, I MEAN, I, I KNOW THIS IS A PORCH THAT WAS CLOSED IN, BUT GENERALLY THE FENESTRATION IS A, A VERY SIGNIFICANT FEATURE IN THE FRONT. THERE ARE SOME SOLUTIONS THAT YOU CAN, UH, CREATE THERE. THERE'S SOME SOLUTIONS TO ESSENTIALLY COVE COVERED OVER WHILE LEAVING IT IN PLACE. SO STAFF HAS IT RIGHT, PARTICULARLY ON NUMBER THREE. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION, UH, ON ITEM THREE AND REFER ITEM ONES, UH, ITEMS ONE AND TWO TO THE D R C. SO I MOVE, UH, FOR DENIAL OF ITEM THREE AND REFER ITEMS ONE AND TWO TO THE D R C SECOND. MOTION A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. WE'LL SEE YOU SOON AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. AND THAT WILL BE A SITE VISIT, SO STAFF WILL COORDINATE THAT WITH YOU. [B-23 20-1715 Address/Description: 2050 W MULBERRY AVE HDRC Case No.: 2019-515 Historic District Name: Monticello Park Applicant: Alfred Luna Request: Demolition of rear accessory structure City Council Dist.: 7] [B-24 20-1713 Address/Description: 135 ADAMS ST HDRC Case No.: 2019-731 Landmark Name: Snell House Historic District Name: King William Applicant: John McDowell/J ADAMS PROPERTIES LLC Request: Installation of parking pad and curb cut City Council Dist.: 1] [B-25 20-1714 Address/Description: 1544 W MISTLETOE HDRC Case No.: 2019-610 Historic District Name:Monticello Park Applicant: Bobby Nix Request: Window replacement City Council Dist.: 1] UM, COMMISSIONERS, WE DO NOT HAVE APPLICANTS FOR OUR LAST THREE CASES. UM, 2050 WEST MULBERRY WAS ACTUALLY REQUESTED TO BE, UH, POSTPONED TO THE NEXT MEETING AS WELL AS 1 35 ADAMS. UM, SO NO ACTION IS REQUIRED FOR THOSE FOR ITEM B 25, 15 44 WEST. MISS ULTO, RACHEL, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY'VE REQUESTED A POSTPONEMENT, SO WE WILL PROBABLY NEED AN ACTION TO POSTPONE THAT ITEM. SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, IN LIEU OF THE, UH, OR IN LIGHT OF THE, THE FACT THAT THE APPLICANT IS NOT PRESENT, IT'S BEEN CUSTOMARY FOR US TO, UH, DEFER THE CASES TO THE NEXT HEARING AND I MOVE FOR TO DO SO. SECOND. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES. [Approval of HDRC Meeting Minutes for January 15, 2020.] MOTION TO APPROVE. MINUTES FROM JANUARY 15TH. SECOND FAVOR, SAY AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED, SAY NAY. MOTION PASSES AND WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.