* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:05] GOOD AFTERNOON LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF WE COULD PLEASE HAVE OUR SPANISH LANGUAGE INTERPRETATION SERVICES STATEMENT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. MY NAME IS JOHN BUSTA AND I'M THE CHAIR OF THE ZONING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, AS WELL AS THE DISTRICT FIVE ZONING COMMISSIONER. THE TIME IS ONE O'CLOCK. I HEREBY CALL THIS REGULARLY NOTICED MEETING OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO ZONING COMMISSION INTO SESSION. I LIKE TO DO ROLL CALL BY ALLOWING THE ZONING COMMISSIONERS TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES, STARTING WITH THE COMMISSIONER ON MY FAR LEFT. THANK YOU CHAIR. MY NAME IS ROB SIPES AND I REPRESENT DISTRICT SEVEN. JOHN KELLY. I REPRESENT DISTRICT EIGHT. JOHN WHIT MOSES, VE, DISTRICT NINE, MIA, DISTRICT TWO, GEORG OSA, DISTRICT THREE. EDDIE R, DISTRICT FOUR. ANA MAYOR APPOINTEE I I WAS LOOKING FOR YOU . UM, STAFF IS A IS A QUORUM PRESENT. YES, A QUORUM IS PRESENT. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. UH, WOULD EVERYONE PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. ALRIGHT, PRIOR TO BEGINNING OUR HEARING, IF STAFF WOULD PLEASE REVIEW OUR MEETING FORMAT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE STAFF IF YOU WOULD, BEFORE I BEGIN, PLEASE TURN YOUR PHONES ON VIBRATE OR TURN THEM OFF. THE ZONING COMMISSION IS AN 11 MEMBER BODY APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON ZONING CASES. UPON RECEIVING A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE COMMISSION, YOU WILL HAVE SIX MONTHS FROM THE DATE OF THE COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION TO FORWARD YOUR CASE TO CITY COUNCIL. IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS PROCEDURE, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR CASE MANAGER. STAFF WILL BEGIN EACH CASE WITH A SHORT PRESENTATION OF THEIR REQUEST. PART OF THE PRESENTATION INCLUDES A MAP THAT SHOWS THE AREA TO BE CONSIDERED FOR REZONING AND PROPERTY. WITHIN 200 FEET OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY CHECK MARKS WILL INDICATE THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS IN FAVOR OF THE REQUEST AND AN X WILL INDICATE THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS IN OPPOSITION. FOLLOWING THIS PRESENTATION AND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR I'M SORRY, FOLLOWING THIS PRESENTATION AND ANY QUESTIONS BY THE COMMISSION, THE APPLICANT WILL PRESENT THEIR REQUEST. FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THE PROPOSED REZONING, YOU WILL BE CALLED IN THE ORDER THAT YOU ARE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK. THOSE IN SUPPORT AND OPPOSITION WILL BE ALLOWED A MAXIMUM OF TWO MINUTES PER SPEAKER AND YOU ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO UTILIZE THE MAXIMUM TIME LIMITATION. YOU WILL BE INFORMED THAT THE TWO MINUTES ARE UP. FOR THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THEIR TIME TO ANOTHER SPEAKER, THAT SPEAKER WILL BE ALLOWED A MAXIMUM OF TWO PEOPLE GIVING THEIR TIME FOR A TOTAL OF SIX MINUTES. THOSE GIVING UP THEIR TIME MUST BE PRESENT AND SIGNED IN TO SPEAK. AND PLEASE ANNOUNCE THAT WHEN THAT SPEAKER'S GOING UP TO THE PODIUM, THAT YOU ARE YIELDING YOUR TIME. THE APPLICANT WILL THEN BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL LIMITED TO ONE SPEAKER WITH A THREE MINUTE TIME LIMIT ALONG WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU CHAIR. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UH, ARE THERE ANY WITHDRAWN OR POSTPONED ITEMS TODAY? THERE ARE NOT. ALRIGHT. UM, WOULD YOU PLEASE READ THE ITEMS THAT ARE ON COMBINED HEARING? NUMBER ONE AT THIS TIME THE CONSENT AGENDA. ITEMS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA ARE 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 AND 12 COMMISSIONERS. UH, WOULD ANYONE LIKE TO PULL ANY ITEMS FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AT THIS TIME? LOOKING LEFT, SEEING NONE, LOOKING RIGHT, SEEING NONE. VERY GOOD. IF WE COULD PLEASE READ THE COMBINED HEARING NUMBER ONE CONSENT AGENDA INTO THE RECORD. ITEM NUMBER SEVEN IS CASE Z 2026. 1 0 7 0 0 1 57 HL A REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM I ONE AND RM FOUR TO I ONE HL AND RM FOUR HL WITH ALL OTHER OVERLAYS TO REMAIN THE SAME. LOCATED AT 6 0 1 DELAWARE STREET. 35 NOTICES MAILED ONE IN FAVOR TO OPPOSE DENVER HEIGHTS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IS IN SUPPORT OUTSIDE 200 FEET. 11 IN FAVOR? ZERO IN OPPOSITION. ITEM NUMBER EIGHT IS Z 2026. 1 0 7 0 0 1 76 8 L OR REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM C TWO AND C ONE TO IDZ ONE HL WITH USES [00:05:01] PERMITTED IN C ONE LIGHT COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND IDZ ONE WITH USES PERMITTED IN C ONE LIGHT COMMERCIAL DISTRICT WITH ALL OTHER OVERLAYS TO REMAIN THE SAME. LOCATED AT 5 38 AND 5 24 WEST WOODLAWN AVENUE. 33 NOTICES MAILED ZERO IN FAVOR. ZERO OPPOSED ALTA VISTA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IS IN FAVOR. ITEM NUMBER NINE IS Z 2026. 1 0 7 0 180 5 A REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM C3 TO RM SIX WITH ALL OTHER WITH ALL OVERLAYS TO REMAIN THE SAME. 33 NOTICES MAILED ZERO IN FAVOR. ZERO OPPOSED CABLE. WESTWOOD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION GAVE NO RESPONSE. ITEM NUMBER 10 IS ZONING CASE Z 2026. 107 0 1 96 A REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM R SIX TO RM SIX WITH ALL OVERLAYS TO REMAIN THE SAME. LOCATED AT 5 25 WEST MAGNOLIA AVENUE. 34. NOTICES MAILED ZERO ONE FAVOR. ZERO OPPOSED ALTA VISTA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION GAVE NO RESPONSE. ITEM 11 IS CASE Z 2026. 1 0 7 2 0 1 A REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM I ONE TO C TWO WITH ALL OVERLAYS TO REMAIN THE SAME. LOCATED AT 1719 GOLIAD ROAD. 17. NOTICES MAILED ZERO IN FAVOR. ZERO OPPOSED HIGHLAND HILLS NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION GAVE NO RESPONSE. THE APPLICANT IS AMENDING THIS REQUEST TO C TWO A. ITEM NUMBER 12 IS Z 2026. 1 0 7 0 2 0 5 HL A REQUEST FOR A CHANGE IN ZONING FROM R SIX TO R SIX HL WITH ALL OVERLAYS TO REMAIN THE SAME. LOCATED AT 4 36 WEST CRAIG PLACE. 28 NOTICES MAILED ONE IN FAVOR. ZERO OPPOSED ALT VISTA NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION GAVE NO RESPONSE. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? THERE IS NOT. OKAY. DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT FOR ITEM NUMBER 11 PLEASE DO WE HAVE THE APPLICANT FOR ITEM NUMBER 11 17 19 GOLIAD PLEASE COME UP. UH, UH AS YOU MAY HAVE HEARD RIGHT HERE SIR, IF YOU WOULD INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND GIVE US YOUR ADDRESS. JOHN 1719 GOLIAD. ALRIGHT. AS YOU MAY HAVE HEARD, UH, THERE WAS A REPRESENTATION THAT YOU ARE AMENDING YOUR REQUEST TO INCLUDE THE NA YES SIR. DISCUSSION THAT'S WHAT YOU WANNA DO TODAY? YES SIR. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALRIGHT. UM, THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR A MOTION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE COMBINED HEARING ITEMS. OKAY. ITEM 7 8, 9, 10 11 AS AMENDED. AND 12. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER PANNA HAS MADE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL AS STATED. SECOND, SECOND. SECOND. COMMISSIONER HENA. HOSA IS THE SECOND, UH, DISCUSSION. LOOKING LEFT. SEEING NONE. DISCUSSION. LOOKING RIGHT. SEEING NONE. ALRIGHT. UH, THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM 7 8 9 10 11 AS AMENDED AND 12 BY COMMISSIONER PANA WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER HINA HOSA ROLL CALL VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER PANA? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER VILLE. AYE. COMMISSIONER WHITSETT? YES. CHAIR BUSANTE. AYE. COMMISSIONER CARRIES. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. IF YOU ARE HERE FOR ANY OF THOSE ITEMS THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED, YOU CAN GO ON AND ENJOY THIS BEAUTIFUL DAY. UNLESS YOU WANT TO SIT WITH US FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS. UH, I KNOW WHICH ONE I WOULD PICK. UM, ALRIGHT, WE ARE NOW GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR CONTINUANCE HEARING TO THE NOVEMBER 17TH, 2026 MEETING. ITEM FIVE IS CASE Z 20 26 1 0 7 0 180 3 LOCATED AT 75 10 ROAD AND ITEM SIX IS CASE Z 20 25 1 0 7 0 3 24 CD LOCATED AT 2353 EAST HOUSTON STREET. THESE ITEMS ARE REQUESTING CONTINUANCE TO THE NOVEMBER 17TH, 2026 HEARING. ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANY PUBLIC HEARING ON PUBLIC COMMENT ON EITHER OF THOSE ITEMS? THERE ARE NOT. OKAY. UH, THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR A MOTION REGARDING ITEMS FIVE AND SIX. MR. CHAIR? YES. COMMISSIONER DOELL MOVE TO CONTINUES ITEM FIVE AND SIX TO, UH, 11 7 26. OKAY. COMMISSIONER DOELL HAS MOVED TO CONTINUE ITEMS FIVE AND SIX TO THE NOVEMBER 17TH MEETING. IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND. SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PANA, ANY DISCUSSION TO MY LEFT? SEEING NONE DISCUSSION TO MY RIGHT. VERY GOOD. THE MOTION IS TO CONTINUE ITEMS FIVE AND SIX TO THE NOVEMBER 17TH, 2026 VOTE ZONING COMMISSION MEETING BY COMMISSIONER ELL WITH THE SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PANA. ROLL CALL, VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER VE AYE. COMMISSIONER PANA? YES. COMMISSIONER LO? YES. COMMISSIONER NOOSA? YES. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. YES. COMMISSIONER S SIPES? [00:10:01] YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER TSET? YES. CHAIR BUSANTE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. WE ARE NOW GONNA MOVE ON. OH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF YOU WERE HERE FOR ITEMS FIVE AND SIX, WHICH WERE AT 75 10 TESLA ROAD, PRESUMABLY STILL ARE, OR 2353 EAST HOUSTON STREET, YOU CAN GO ABOUT YOUR DAY AND WE'LL SEE YOU NOVEMBER 17TH, 2026. UH, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR INDIVIDUAL HEARING ITEMS, BEGINNING WITH ITEM. ACTUALLY WE'RE GONNA BEGIN WITH ITEM NUMBER THREE 'CAUSE WE HAVE THE MICS. . GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS SEAN SHEELEY, PLANNER WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. ITEM NUMBER THREE, LOCATED AT 1 5 8 3 8 NORTH US HIGHWAY 2 81 IS A REQUEST FROM MF 18 TO C3 49. NOTICES WERE MAILED TWO IN FAVOR AND FIVE IN OPPOSITION. THE EXISTING MF 18 LIMITED DENSITY MULTIFAMILY DISTRICT IS AN APPROPRIATE ZONING DESTINATION FOR THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND THE SURROUNDING AREA IS IN IS AND IS CONSISTENT WITH THE ESTABLISHED RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE PROPOSED C3 GENERAL COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, BY CONTRAST, IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS PROPERTY. WHILE THERE ARE SEVERAL C3 ZONE PROPERTIES AND PROXIMITY, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY'S DEPTH EXTENDS SIGNIFICANTLY FURTHER TO THE REAR THAN ANY OTHER PROPERTY ALONG THIS CORRIDOR, RESULTING IN A MUCH LARGER FOOTPRINT THAN THE SURROUNDING COMMERCIAL PARCELS. THIS INCREASED DEATH MEANS THAT A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE REAR PROPERTY DIRECTLY ABUTS EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USES REZONING TO C3 WOULD IN, UH, INTRODUCE THE POTENTIAL FOR INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO ESTABLISHED SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. UH, THIS CREATES A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF INCOMPATIBILITY, INCLUDING IMPACTS RELATED TO NOISE, LIGHTING, PRIVACY, AND GENERAL NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER. THE APPLICANT, HOWEVER, IS AMENDING TO PROPOSE C3 FOR 1.247 ACRES OUT OF NCB 1 5 6 7 4, WHICH IS THAT FRONT PORTION RIGHT THERE. AND THEN THE BACK PORTION, UH, WHICH WOULD BE TO C TWO CD FOR CONSTRUCTION TRADE CONTRACTORS FOR 2.61 ACRES OUT OF NCB 1 15 6 7 4 PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL ON THE AMENDED PLAN AMENDMENT. STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL AND THE APPLICANT IS PRESENT. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. IF WE COULD HAVE THE APPLICANT PLEASE. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. I'M OCTAVIA MONTEZ, 13 6 20 NORTHWEST MILITARY HIGHWAY. AND UM, LET ME TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT. UH, INDEED WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH STAFF WITH THE NEIGHBORS THAT I WANT TO ADD THAT THEY'VE BEEN AMAZING NEIGHBORS AND ALSO WITH COMMISSIONER DUEL. AND, UH, THAT'S HOW WE HAVE AMENDED THIS, THIS PROPOSAL. OKAY. UM, SPEAKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROJECT, UM, THIS LAND HAS A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY. ORIGINALLY, UH, SOLD AS COMMERCIAL WAS RECENTLY ABOUT TWO, THREE YEARS AGO INTO MULTIFAMILY. MULTIFAMILY IS A PROJECT THAT MANY OF THE NEIGHBORS OPPOSE BECAUSE, UH, IT WAS, UH, A VERY HIGH IMPACT, UH, USED FOR, FOR THE LAND. AND I THINK WE HAVE A PROPOSAL THAT'S GONNA BE MUCH, MUCH OF VALUE AND ALSO FOR THE, FOR THE NEIGHBORS, IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT IS GONNA SOLVE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE. SO THIS IS WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING C3 AND C TWO CD. AND LEMME EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT OF WHY C3 AND C TWO CD. UH, FOR CONTRACTORS, WE HAVE A POTENTIAL TENANT THAT HAS, UH, APPLIANCE, UH, RETAIL APPLIANCE, UH, COMPANY, AND THEY REQUIRE CERTAIN HEIGHT. THE HEIGHT THAT THEY REQUIRE IS OVER 25 FEET PLUS. ALSO, THEY REQUIRE TO HAVE SIGNAGE TOWARDS THE HIGHWAY. THAT IS THE REASON WHY WE CAN'T GO WITH THE CD IN THIS PORTION, AND WE HAVE TO REQUEST THE C3. WE ARE WELL AWARE THAT, UH, HAVING C3 ALL OVER THE PARK IS NOT NECESSARY, AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE AMENDED TO JUST KEEPING THAT ON THE FRONT. THE REASON WE'RE DEVELOPING THIS PARK IS WE FOUND A NICHE WHERE WE ARE SERVICING A LOT OF SMALL COMPANIES, A LOT OF SMALL CONTRACTORS THAT SERVE NEIGHBORS. WE HAVE TENANTS SUCH AS POOL MAINTENANCE, ELECTRICAL MAINTENANCE, AC MAINTENANCE. SO, UM, IN ORDER FOR THEM TO OBTAIN A COO IN THIS, IN THIS, IN THIS PLACE, THEY HAD, WE HAVE TO HAVE A SONY THAT ALLOWS CONTRACTORS. THAT'S WHY THIS, UH, CD UH, REQUEST. UH, WE ALSO HAVE A SPECIALIZED, UH, [00:15:01] RETAILERS AND WE HAVE OFFICE SPACE THAT WILL ALSO, UH, WILL OCCUPY THIS SPACE. IT'S NOT THE FIRST PROJECT OF THIS KIND. WE'VE DONE, WE'VE DONE SIMILAR PROJECTS WHERE WE OFFICE, OFFICE SPACE WITH A LITTLE STORAGE, UH, UNITS FOR THEM. AND, UH, THESE ARE SOME OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE ARE EITHER WORKING ON OR WE HAVE ALREADY COMPLETED. THEY'RE ALL IN THE SAN ANTONIO AREA. AND WITH ALL OF 'EM, WE'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL NOT ONLY WITH OUR TENANTS, BUT ALSO WITH OUR NEIGHBORS. WE TRY TO BE GOOD NEIGHBORS EVERYWHERE WE GO AND WE WANT TO KEEP THAT, UH, THAT, THAT, UH, GOING. WE OFFER BUSINESS HOUR OP BUSINESS HOURS. OUR OPERATIONS GONNA BE DOING BUSINESS HOURS. WE ENHANCE THE SECURITY. WE ARE ALSO A VERY LOW PROFILE, UM, CONSTRUCTION ONLY. THE FRONT WILL BE ONLY THE FRONT DOOR TO 81 WILL BE, UH, 28 FEET BECAUSE OF WHAT THIS TENANT REQUIRES. BUT THE BACK, ALTHOUGH IT SAYS 18 FEET, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO A LITTLE CHANGE HERE TO 20 FEET. AND I'LL SPEAK, UH, ABOUT THAT IN A MOMENT. WHY WE HAVE A REQUEST TO HARVEST SOME OF THE RAIN WATER IN THIS PLACE. AND IN ORDER TO HARVEST THAT RAIN WATER. WE DISCUSSED THE OTHER DAY THE NECESSITY TO, TO CHANGE A LITTLE BIT THE SLOPE IN, IN ONE OF OUR BUILDINGS. UH, NEVERTHELESS, THIS, THIS LAND OFFERED A LOT OF CHALLENGES. ONE OF 'EM IS THAT WE HAVE BEAUTIFUL HERITAGE TREES IN IT. OUR PROJECT IS RESPECTING ALL THOSE TREES. WE'RE ALSO IN AN AQUIFER PROTECTION CENTER, UH, ZONE. SO WE ARE ALSO GOING OVER 35% OF PURVIEW COVER IN THIS AREA. WE ARE GOING IN SOME OF OUR AREAS BEYOND WHAT THE SETBACKS, UH, BY LAW ARE REQUIRED HERE. WE'RE ALSO, UNLIKE, UNLIKE MULTIFAMILY PROJECTS, WE'RE ALSO A VERY LOW DENSITY, UH, DEVELOPMENT. AND ONE OF THE MAIN PROBLEMS THAT THIS LAND HAS RIGHT NOW IS STORM WATER. CURRENTLY A LOT OF THE WATER, A LOT OF THE STORM WATER THAT NOT ONLY FALLS IN OUR LAND, BUT ALSO FALLS NEXT TO US, UH, IN THE MOBILE HOME DEVELOPMENT GOES DOWN AND FLOODS THREE OF OUR NEIGHBORS, WHICH I BELIEVE ARE THE NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE OPPOSED THE PROJECT AND IS VERY UNDERSTANDABLE WHY WE ARE PROPOSING, UH, AN INTERCEPTOR FOR ALL THIS, UH, RAIN WATER IN A WAY THAT WE CAN CANALIZE, CHANNELIZE IT AND SEND IT, UH, IN A WAY THAT WILL NOT CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS TO ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS DOWN THE STREAM. WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO THE NEIGHBOR ASSOCIATION IN THE MOBILE PARK. WE ARE ALSO CREATING A DOCUMENT THAT WILL BE RECORDED IN THE DEED AND THIS DOCUMENT WE ARE COMPROMISING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM PLUS ALL THE ASPECTS THAT WE MENTIONED ABOUT TIME AND, UM, HEIGHTS, AND WE GONNA FENCE THE PLACE AND ALL OF THAT. UM, I WANT TO BE VERY EMPHATIC THAT THIS PLACE IS IN A VERY IMPORTANT R THREE AND THAT 2 81 IS CURRENTLY, UH, COLLECTOR FOR COMMERCIAL USE. NOT A GREAT, UH, COLLECTOR FOR MULTIFAMILY OR RESIDENTIAL. I ALSO WANT TO ADD HOW MOST OF OUR NEIGHBORS, UH, ARE CURRENTLY SEWN. UH, C3 AND THE PORTION THAT WE ARE SEWING A C3, UH, ALIGNS WITH THE REST OF THE, OF, OF OUR NEIGHBORS AS, AS WE CAN SEE AND IN THE PORTION ADJACENT TO THE, TO THE NEIGHBORS. WE ARE DOING C TWO AS WE CAN SEE IN MOST OF THE AREAS ADJACENT TO US. SO WE'RE TRYING TO BE VERY CONSISTENT TO WHAT'S WITH THE AREA. UM, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE LAND TO HAVE CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS AS WE SPOKE BEFORE, LIMITING THE WORKING HOURS, HAVING PRIVACY, UH, HAVING LOW IMPACT LIGHTING, NOT HAVING LOUD NOISES FOR THE NEIGHBORS. AND WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THAT TO ALL OF 'EM. AND MOST OF THE NEIGHBORS HAVE BEEN VERY RESPONSIVE AND INCREDIBLY, UH, GOOD WITH US. AND I, THEY, THEY'RE ON BOARD WITH US IN, IN, IN MOST OF WHAT WE'RE OFFERING. MOST OF MY PRESENTATION WILL COVER ASPECTS THAT I THINK ARE WELL KNOWN HOW A PROJECT OF THIS KIND WILL NOT INCREASE. UH, TRAFFIC ON 2 81, UM, WILL NOT BE A BURDEN ON MUNICIPAL SERVICES BECAUSE OF COURSE THE AMOUNT OF WATER, SEWER AND POWER THAT, UH, DEVELOPMENT OF THIS KIND REQUIRES IS NOTHING COMPARED TO MULTI-FAMILY. WE'RE ALSO VERY CLEAR, UH, THAT THE SURROUNDING BUILDINGS WILL ONLY BE SINGLE STORIES. SO THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE THREE OR FOUR STORIES THAT WILL BE LOOKING INTO THE NEIGHBORS. SO THAT'S ALSO, THEY ALSO SEE WITH, WITH, WITH, UH, VERY, VERY GOOD AT IT. UM, BASICALLY OUR CONCLUSION IS THIS IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE LAND THAT [00:20:01] WILL PRESERVE IT AS MUCH AS IT IS RIGHT NOW WITH REGARDS TO THE TREES THAT WILL NOT IMPACT THE NEIGHBORS. AND THAT THE WAY WE ARE PROPOSING OUR AMENDMENTS, WE BELIEVE THAT EVEN IN THE FUTURE IF WE DON'T OWN THAT LAND ANYMORE, WHOEVER GETS INTO IT WILL NOT, UH, DEVELOP ANYTHING THAT WILL AFFECT THE NEIGHBORS EITHER. AND I'M OPEN TO QUESTIONS NOW. THANK YOU MR. ES. THANK YOU. UH, BEFORE WE GET TO THAT, UH, I MOVED THIS UP FOR THE MICS AND THEN DIDN'T CALL UP SAS FOR THE SAS REPORT. SAS REPORT IF WE COULD. OKAY. MIKE, MIKE ESCALANTE WITH SAW AQUIFER PROTECTION AND EVALUATION SECTION. UH, WE REVIEWED, REVIEWED THE ZONING APPLICATION LOCATED AT 1 5 8 3 8 SAN PEDRO AVENUE, ALLOWING FOR A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. THERE'S CURRENTLY A PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT BUSINESS OPERATING IN THE WESTERN LOT AND THE EASTERN LOT REMAINS UNDEVELOPED WITH DATA TREES WITH BOTH LOTS TOLLING 3.86 ACRES. THE PROPERTY IS, IS CLASSIFIED AS A CATEGORY TWO, THE PROPOSED ZONING CHANGE WILL CONSIST OF A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT COMMERCIAL RETAIL SPACE AND A 25,000 SQUARE FOOT OFFICE AND FLEX WAREHOUSE SPACE WITH PARKING, UH, WITH PARKING SPACES. NO PORTION OF THE SITE IS IN A FLOODPLAIN. UH, ONE DISCOVERED SENSITIVE GEOLOGIC FEATURE BEING A SOLUTION CAVITY WAS DOCUMENTED NEAR THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE SITE. UH, WE RECOMMEND APPROVING ALL ENVIRONMENTAL, ALL ENVIRONMENTAL RECOMMENDATIONS WITHIN THE SAS REPORT TO INCLUDE ALLOWING 65% IMPERVIOUS COVER FOR THE 3.86 UH, ACRE SITE AND PROVIDING A NATURAL BUFFER FOR THE SOLUTION CAVITY FEATURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT PLEASE? WE DO. UH, ROBIN THOMAS. ALRIGHT, MS. THOMAS THOMPSON. EXCUSE, EXCUSE ME, I'M SORRY. MS. THOMPSON. UM, WHEN YOU COME UP, IF YOU JUST TELL US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOUR POSITION. HI, ROBIN THOMPSON, ONE 11 PALO GRANDE. UM, GOING BACK TO OCTAVIA'S POINT ABOUT THE MULTI-STORY APARTMENT COMPLEX THEY WANTED TO PUT IN A FEW YEARS AGO, THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS AGAINST THAT FOR OBVIOUS REASONS. UM, DEVALUATION OF PROPERTY AND PERSONAL SPACE, ALSO THE INFLUX OF TRAFFIC, WATER, ET CETERA. UM, WITH THIS NEW PROPOSAL, WE ARE, I SAY WE MYSELF AND ANOTHER NEIGHBOR THAT'S HERE, THERE'S ONLY SIX OF US WHO ARE AFFECTED, ARE MORE AMENABLE TO THIS IF THEY DO AS PRESENTED AND FIX THE WATER SOLUTION. UM, THAT GOES BETWEEN MY HOUSE AND MY NEIGHBORS AT 1 0 7 PAOLO GRANDE. IT'S BEEN A PROBLEM SINCE THE MOBILE HOME PARK IN THE EARLY SEVENTIES. AND IF THEY CAN FIX THAT AND IF WE HAVE THE BUSINESS HOURS, UH, AND NOW THEY 20 FOOT BUILDINGS, BUT THE BACKS TO THOSE NEIGHBORS, UH, LIGHTS POINTING DOWN, SECURITY, ET CETERA, ET CETERA, UM, I'M NO LONGER OPPOSED MY POSITION AT THE BEGINNING WHEN ALL I HAD WAS WHAT THE CITY SENT ME. I SENT A LETTER OF PROPOSAL, BUT THEN AFTER LEARNING WHAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY ATTENDING TO DO, UM, I AM OKAY. IF SOMETHING HAS TO BE BUILT, THEN THIS SEEMS THE LESSER OF ALL EVILS AND IF THEY CAN FIX THAT WATER ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN THERE SINCE THE EARLY SEVENTIES, THEN I AM FOR THIS PROPOSAL. THANK YOU SO MUCH MS. THOMPSON. UH, NEXT, NEXT IS RACHEL HAYNES AND MS. HAYNES THE SAME THING, NAME AND ADDRESS AND THEN YOUR POSITION. WONDERFUL, THANK YOU. MY NAME IS RACHEL HAYNES. I'M THE POLICY DIRECTOR AT THE GREATER EDWARDS AQUIFER ALLIANCE. UM, OUR ADDRESS, OR WE'RE AT 1809 BLANCO ROAD. PERFECT. UH, WE ARE, UH, AGAINST THIS PROPOSAL, BOTH THE ORIGINAL AND THE AMENDED PROPOSAL. WE VIEW C3 AS AN INCOMPATIBLE LAND USE FOR THIS AREA AND AS INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE NORTH SECTOR PLAN. UH, THE EDWARDS AQUIFER RECHARGE ZONE IS AN INCREDIBLY SENSITIVE AREA AND EVEN WITH THE, UM, UPDATED PROPOSAL CANNOT, THE RECHARGE ZONE CANNOT AFFORD A CONTINUOUS CHIPPING AWAY AT, UM, THE LOW DENSITY USES AND OPEN SPACE OF THE AREA. UH, SO WE WOULD SUPPORT HONESTLY NO FURTHER DEVELOPMENT, ALTHOUGH WE KNOW IT IS CURRENTLY ZONED AS LIMITED DENSITY MULTIFAMILY, AND WE DO VIEW LIMITED DENSITY MULTIFAMILY AS A BETTER OPTION THAN GENERAL COMMERCIAL, ESPECIALLY MOVING FORWARD. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH MS. HAYNES. ANY FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? NO FURTHER COMMENT. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. MR. ESS, IF YOU'D LIKE A BRIEF REBUTTAL? YES, WE'RE VERY AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT [00:25:01] THE LAND HAS AND OF COURSE THIS IS JUST THE FIRST STEP. WE HAVE A TEAM OF ENGINEERS WORKING ON RESOLVING FROM THE WATER ISSUES TO ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT BEING IN THE AREA OF, OF, OF THE AQUIFER PRESENTS. WE ALL KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT EVER GONNA GIVE IT A A, A PERMIT OR A LICENSE TO BUILD IF WE DON'T SOLVE ALL THESE PROBLEMS. AND, UH, I THINK THE WAY WE'RE DESIGNING, THE WAY WE'RE PRESENTING EVERYTHING, WE'LL SOLVE THEM WITH REGARD TO STORM WATER. WE'RE ALSO PLANNING TO DO WHAT THEY CALL THE, THE, OH MY GOD, I JUST BLANKED. WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE, THE FILTERS? WE'RE GONNA HAVE FILTERS, UM, THAT WERE, UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE FILTERS THAT ARE NECESSARY IN ORDER TO CLEAR THE, THE, THE, THE WATER SO THAT THE AQUIFER DOES NOT GET ANY CONTAMINANTS INTO IT. AND UM, AND I'M SURE, UH, THIS WILL BE, THIS WILL BE DONE BEFORE WE CAN, BEFORE WE CAN GET A PERMIT. YES. FORGOT THE TECHNICAL TERM OF THE DEVICES THAT WE'RE GONNA INSTALL. WE WON'T HOLD IT. HOLD YOU TO IT, . THANK YOU. NOT AN EXAMPLE. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH. JELLYFISH JELLY . AH, OKAY, VERY GOOD. ALRIGHT, THIS IS A DISTRICT NINE CASE, SO COMMISSIONER DOEL TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. I'M GONNA BE BRIEF SINCE WE GOT A LOT OF ITEMS ON THE AGENDA. UH, BUT, UH, UH, IF I COULD ASK, UH, MIKE TO COME BACK UP FROM SAS. UM, SO THE, UH, UH, PERVIOUS COVER REQUIREMENT MM-HMM . UM, SO SAWS, UH, PUT WITHIN THEIR REPORT AND REQUESTED WHAT, WHAT'S THE, UH, WHAT, WHAT WAS THE CAP FOR PREVIOUS COVER? UH, 65%. OKAY. AND THEN, UH, TO GIVE A DIS DISTINCTION, LIKE HOW, HOW DOES THAT SCALE WORK? IS IT ANYTHING IN THE EDWARDS AQUIFER? IT COULD BE 65 OR DOES IT DEPEND ON THE TOPOGRAPHY? IT'S BASED ON, UH, LAND USE. SO, SO THIS BEING COMMERCIAL OR IT'S PROPOSED TO BE COMMERCIAL, WE, BASED ON THE, UH, AQUIFER PROTECTION OR THE WATER QUALITY ORDINANCE COMMERCIAL IS ALLOWED UP TO 65%. AND THE REASON WHY WE WENT 65% BECAUSE THEY, THEY HAD A SITE SITE SPECI OR A SITE PLAN SHOWING 65%. SO WE, WE WERE LIKE, WELL, IT MEETS THE ORDINANCE SO YOU KNOW, IT'S AT LEAST IT'S NOT GOING ABOVE 65. HOW MUCH WOULD MULTIFAMILY BE, UH, ALLOWED? SO ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO WHEN IT WAS REZONED FROM C3 TO MF 18, I THINK, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER, I THINK WE DID 50%. I'M PRETTY SURE WE DID 50% BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE ORDINANCE ALLOWS FOR MULTIFAMILY IS 50%. THANK YOU. AND OKAY. YEAH. GREAT. THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION? THANK YOU SO MUCH. NO PROBLEM. UM, OCTAVIA, IF YOU COULD COME BACK UP AGAIN FOR ME. FIRST OFF, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BEING FLEXIBLE WITH THE APPLICATION. I KNOW YOU ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED WITH, WITH UH, UH, C3 ALONG THE ENTIRE PROPERTY, UM, BUT C TWO CD A LOT MORE RESTRICTIVE TO PREVENT, YOU KNOW, FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE C3 USES. UH, WOULD YOU REMIND ME AGAIN, I, I HEARD, BUT I DON'T WANNA MISQUOTE IT. UH, WHAT'S THE PREVIOUS COVER THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING WITH THE SITE PLAN? YEAH, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT UNDER SIX, UH, UNDER 65%. AND WE HAVE ONE MORE POSSIBILITY OF EVEN, UH, DECREASING THAT WE ARE, UH, THINKING ABOUT USING IN THE PARKING LOT, SOME AREA THAT WILL ALSO BE OUS. SO THAT WILL HELP US TO REDUCE IT AS WELL. IT'S SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING INTO IT BEFORE, UH, COMMITTING TO IT, MAKING SURE IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BRING PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF SOLUTIONS, BUT I BELIEVE THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD USE AND GET THAT AREA EVEN EVEN LOWER THAN WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. GREAT, THANK YOU. AND UH, LASTLY, SEAN, IF YOU COME UP BRIEFLY OR I GUESS CAN YOU SPEAK FROM THERE? NO, NO. I GUESS YOU HAVE TO GO, UH, YEAH, YOU GOT A MIC OVER THERE. SO, UH, THE MF DO YOU KNOW THE BACKGROUND ON THE PREVIOUS MF PROJECT? WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT WAS PROPOSED THAT FAILED AT COMMISSION? IT WAS BEFORE MY TIME SET, SO IT DID GET REZONED TO MF 18. UH, AS FAR AS I'M AWARE, FROM WHAT I'VE READ, IT WAS JUST GONNA BE AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. OKAY. AND NO, I MEAN, ANY OTHER INSIGHTS FROM STAFF ON WHAT HAPPENED ON THE PROJECT? DID THE PROJECT FAIL AFTER PASSING OUT OF US OR OUTTA COUNCIL OR NO, WE WEREN'T MADE AWARE OF ANY, UH, FUTURE PROJECTS. OKAY. UM, ALRIGHT. THAT ANSWERS IT FOR ME AT LEAST ON THIS ROUND. THANK YOU. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. UH, COMMISSIONERS TO MY LEFT QUESTIONS? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES, THIS WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR SAS AND AS YOU'RE, OH, YOU CAN GET THE MICROPHONE BACK THERE. THAT'S FINE. UM, YOU MENTIONED, UM, A BUFFER TO THE, UH, SOLUTION CAVITY WOULD BE REQUIRED. WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WOULD THAT ENTAIL? [00:30:01] IS THERE A CERTAIN DISTANCE OR IS IT A, AND THEN, AND THEN IS THAT SINCE YOU MADE THAT RECOMMENDATION AND SINCE THE SAS REPORT, I GUESS THIS WOULD BE A FOLLOW UP FOR STAFF, DOES THAT IN, IS THAT INCLUDED IN THE, UH, CONDITIONS? SO, SO FOR THE UH, SOLUTION, UH, CAVITY FEATURE, WHAT WOULD BE REQUIRED IS A A 60 FOOT BUFFER. UH, AND LUCKILY ON THEIR SITE PLAN WHERE THE FEATURE IS LOCATED ON THE FAR NORTHWEST CORNER, THEIR SITE PLAN SHOWS THAT ALL TO BE GREEN SPACE. SO LOOKING AT, AT THE, AT THE SITE PLAN, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE IT, IT'S GONNA BE MORE THAN 60 FOOT, 60 FOOT BUFFER LIKE, UH, ON THE, ON THE SOUTH END BECAUSE THE FEATURES KIND OF LOCATED TOWARDS THE CLOSER TO THE NORTHWEST CORNER, CLOSER TO, CLOSER TO THE FENCE LINE, THAT NORTHERN BOUNDARY. UM, BUT LIKE I SAID, ON ON, ON ONE OF THE, THE SITE PLANS, IT SHOWED IT ALL TO BE PRETTY MUCH IN GREEN SPACE. SO WE, WE WERE GOOD WITH THAT. OKAY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND THAT'S IT. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SIPES, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? LEFT? QUESTIONS RIGHT? YES. COMMISSIONER PANA? I DO, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. UH, QUICK QUESTION. I KNOW YOU MENTIONED HOURS OF OPERATION. I, I DON'T KNOW IF I MISSED IT OR NOT. WAS THERE ANY SET SPECIFIC HOURS THAT WERE NOTATED? I KNOW THE DAYS WERE ON THERE. YES. UH, THE HOURS OF OPERATION ARE, UH, EIGHT TO EIGHT TO FIVE I WANNA SAY DURING, DURING WEEKDAYS, UH, AND SUNDAYS THEY CLOSE. OKAY, GREAT. AND YOU DISCLOSED ONE OF YOUR TENANTS. DO YOU ALREADY HAVE THE REMAINDER OF THE TENANTS LINED UP? ARE YOU AT LIBERTY OF SHARING ANY OF THAT INFORMATION WITH US? THE COMPANY ON THE FRONT, UH, THEY'RE STILL NEGOTIATING WITH THEM. IT'S, IT'S CALLED WILSON APPLIANCES. THEY SERVE THE AUSTIN AREA AND THEY'RE NOW PLANNING TO START OPERATING IN SAN ANTONIO. AND THEY LOVE THE, THE LOCATION, UH, THEIR HIGH-END APPLIANCES AND THEIR REQUIREMENT THAT THEY'RE, THEY HAVE IS THEY NEED A MEZZANINE FOR OFFICE SPACE. THE, THE FIRST FLOOR WILL BE THEIR, THEIR SHOWROOM AND, AND, AND THE MEZZANINE WILL BE SOME OF THEIR OFFICE SPACE, BUT ALSO THEY NEED A LITTLE BIT OF STORAGE AND THEIR STORAGE REQUIRES THAT 28 FEET HIGH. AND THE REMAINDER OF THE TENANTS, THE REMAINDER? WE DO NOT YET. YOU DON'T KNOW? NO, WE DON'T KNOW YET. ARE YOU SEEKING ANY RESTAURANTS, CAFES? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. OKAY, THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS TO MY RIGHT? SEEING NONE SECOND ROUND. COMMISSIONER ELL? YES, UH, I REMEMBER WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK SEAN. UH, THE, UH, COUNTS FROM BEFORE WITHIN THE STAFF REPORT SHOWED TWO IN FAVOR, FIVE OPPOSED? UM, WHEN I LOOKED THROUGH THE FIVE OPPOSED, ONE OF THEM, UH, WAS, UM, ROBIN, WHO CAME TO SPEAK WITH US TODAY. UM, SO NO OTHER UPDATES UNDER THAT. RIGHT. SO THREE FOUR, I GUESS IS THE, UH, AS OF NOW IT WOULD BE THREE, FOUR NOW. AND THE, UH, JUST PROCESS WISE, UM, LETTERS, NO MATTER WHEN THAT WHEN THEY COME IN, IF THEY INDICATE APPROVAL OR SUPPORT, THEY, THEY STAY ON THE RECORD? YES, SIR. AND I SPOKE WITH THE APPLICANT, SHE'S GONNA SEND AN EMAIL CORRECTING IT SO WHEN IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL, THE COUNCIL WILL CHANGE. GOT IT. OKAY. AND POTENTIALLY IF THERE WERE OTHERS OF THOSE FIVE THAT HAD CHANGED THEIR POSITION SINCE SEPTEMBER, THEY ALSO POTENTIALLY COULD ALSO SEND THAT EMAIL, RIGHT? YES SIR. OKAY, PERFECT. UM, GREAT. AND THEN, UH, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER PANOV FOR THE IMPORTANT HOUSEKEEPING ISSUE. UH, ON THE CURRENT AMENDED PROPOSAL, DOES IT INCLUDE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL FOR HEIGHT OR HOURS OF OPERATION OR DOWNWARD FACING LIGHTING? I GUESS THE OTHER QUESTION IS, CAN WE DO THAT ON THE CONDITIONAL USE AUTHORIZATION? CORRECT. AND DOES IT INCLUDE IT ON THE CURRENT AMENDED PROPOSAL? THEY DON'T ADD CONDITIONS ON A SITE PLAN, SO IT'LL HAVE TO BE READ IN. OKAY. AND, UH, JUST A, THE THE THREE THAT I, AT LEAST I HEARD, I WANT TO SEE IF YOU GUYS HEARD ANY OTHERS HOURS OF OPERATION MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, EIGHT THROUGH FIVE? UM, THE HEIGHT LIMIT, CAN WE DO A HEIGHT LIMIT ON THE, UH, CD YES. UH, OF 20 FEET AND THEN DOWNWARD FACING LIGHTING WAS THE THREE. WAS THERE ANY OTHERS THAT STAFF HEARD? I HEARD SUNDAY CLOSED, SUNDAY CLOSED. THANK YOU. SHOULD CLARIFY THAT. WELL WHAT ABOUT SATURDAY? SO YOU JUST SAID MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, EIGHT THROUGH FIVE, EIGHT TO FIVE? I THINK WE, I THINK TWO ONE. WELL, I, UH, LET'S HAVE OCTAVIA COME UP AND CLARIFY THE HOURS WE ARE. SO WITH THE SAN PEDRO MOBILE PARK, THERE'S A DECLARATION OF RESTRICTING COVENANTS THAT'S GONNA BE IN THE DEED AND THAT'S GONNA COVER ALL THIS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. I THINK THE ATTORNEYS ARE STILL GOING BACK AND FORTH. THE LAST THING I HEARD IS THAT THEY WERE REQUESTING UNTIL ONE, UM, BUT THEY'RE [00:35:01] STILL GOING A LITTLE BIT. I'M SORRY TO CLARIFY, THAT'S ONE ON SATURDAY, ONE ON SATURDAYS, CORRECT? YES. SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE CITY DOES NOT ENFORCE, UH, TCRS. SO, SO WE, YEAH, WE WOULD, THE ONLY PROBLEM IS, I SUPPOSE IF THEY'RE STILL CURRENTLY NEGOTIATING IT, HOW DOES IT WORK WITH, UH, ONCE A PROJECT GOES BEFORE, UH, TO COUNCIL WITH OUR RECOMMENDATION COUNCIL? CAN THEY CHANGE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL? THAT IS CORRECT. OKAY. SO MM-HMM . IF HYPOTHETICALLY THE ATTORNEYS WERE TO FINISH THEIR NEGOTIATION BY THEN, THEY, YOU KNOW, THE UH, COUNCILWOMAN COULD AMEND THOSE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL TO YES, SIR. ALRIGHT. SO THEN TO YOU, UH, OCTAVIO, I, I THINK WOULD ONE BE A GOOD GUESS OR I THINK THIS CAN BE SIGNED BEFORE CITY COUNCIL FOR SURE. IT WON'T BE RECORDED OF COURSE UNTIL AFTER CITY COUNCIL. YES. WELL, BUT NOT, NOT TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, THE, THE PRIVATE ARRANGEMENT, BUT FOR A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, UM, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING AND I'LL, I'LL BE CLEAR WITH THE COUNCILWOMAN THAT TO CHECK, HAVE HER OFFICE CHECK WITH YOU ON IT. YEAH. WOULD ONE BE A GOOD GUESS ON SATURDAY? IT SHOULD BE. IT SHOULD BE, YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THAT'S GREAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? LEFT? ALRIGHT, QUESTIONS? RIGHT. ALRIGHT. UH, IN THAT CASE, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW CLOSED. UH, COMMISSIONER VO TO YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND POTENTIAL MOTION, UH, JUST ONCE AGAIN TO REITERATE, UH, THANK YOU TO THE APPLICANT, UH, FOR WORKING WITH US COMMISSION. WILL NOTE THAT WE CONTINUED AT THE LAST MEETING, UH, FOR THE APPLICANT TO GET WITH STAFF AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO BE ABLE TO PUT IT ON A SITE PLAN AND NOT HAVE C3 ALONG THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE PROPERTY. UH, I THOUGHT C3 WAS ALREADY APPROPRIATE ON 2 81, BUT I HAD RESERVATIONS ABOUT C3 ON THE REST. UM, I THINK THIS IS AN IMPROVEMENT OF THAT AS WELL. I'M GLAD THAT WITH THOSE CHANGES, UH, SOME OF THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS CAME INTO AGREEMENTS WITH THAT. I WILL MOVE TO, UH, APPROVE AS AMENDED WITH THE ADDITIONAL, UH, CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, HOURS OF OPERATION MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY, EIGHT THROUGH FIVE, AND ON SATURDAY, EIGHT TO ONE, UH, WITH A HEIGHT LIMIT OF 20 FEET AND DOWNWARD FACING LIGHTING. OKAY. THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL AS AMENDED FOR ITEM NUMBER THREE WITH THE CONDITIONS AS STATED ON THE RECORD. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND, SECOND. COMMISSIONER TSET? VERY GOOD. ALRIGHT. DISCUSSION TO MY LEFT? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES. ORIGINALLY I WAS NOT GONNA SUPPORT THE, THE MOTION, BUT, UM, BECAUSE OF THE IMPERVIOUS COVER REDUCTION, IS THAT RIGHT? REDUC OR INCREASE FROM 50% AS MULTIFAMILY TO A CURRENT 65%, BUT UPON HEARING THAT IT'S ONLY BEEN MULTIFAMILY FOR THREE YEARS, I THINK, I THINK, UM, THE, THE, UH, ACCOMMODATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE WILL, WILL WORK OUT. UM, I, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE APPLICANT TO LOOK AT SOMETHING BESIDES PERVIOUS PAVING. UM, LOOK AT A REDUCTION OF PARKING VERSUS THE ADDITION OF PERVIOUS PAVING BECAUSE THAT'S A, A MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENT IN ORDER TO KEEP IT PERVIOUS. UM, BUT WITH THAT I'LL SUPPORT THE MOTION. ALL. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SIPES DISCUSSION LEFT. SEEING NONE DISCUSSION, RIGHT. SEEING NONE. UM, YEAH, I THINK IT'S HARD, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THAT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, SOME SENSITIVE GEOLOGICAL FEATURE HERE. UM, THAT BEING SAID, IT IS RIGHT ON 2 81, UM, WHICH, YOU KNOW, TO ANTICIPATE THAT NO DEVELOPMENT WOULD OCCUR THERE. THAT SHIP SAILED 60 YEARS AGO. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DO HAVE CONCERNS, BUT GIVEN SAWS, UH, REQUIREMENTS HERE, I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION WITH RESPECT TO HOURS OF OPERATION. I'M ALWAYS IN FAVOR OF GOING A LITTLE BIT BEYOND, BUT YOU KNOW, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO WITH THE DEED RESTRICTIONS, THOSE WILL BE APPLICABLE. UM, AND THEY WILL APPLY TO THE CONDITIONAL USE AND THE CONDITIONAL USE ONLY. SO THAT KEEP THAT IN MIND AS YOU GO FORWARD. THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER THREE AS AMENDED WITH THE CONDITIONS AS READ ON THE RECORD BY COMMISSIONER ELL WITH THE SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WHITSETT ROLL CALL, VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER DOVE. AYE. COMMISSIONER? YES. COMMISSIONER LO? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER PANA? YES. CHAIR BUSANTE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. GOOD LUCK TO YOU. THANK YOU MIKES. ALRIGHT, WE ARE NOW MOVING ON TO, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE, PLEASE. [00:40:06] GOOD AFTERNOON. ALEXA RATANA ZONING PLANNER WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. ITEM NUMBER ONE IS GENERALLY LOCATED IN THE 4,400 BLOCK OF NTO DRIVE GOING FROM C TWO COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND NP 10, NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION DISTRICT TWO C TWO COMMERCIAL DISTRICT WITH ALL OVERLAY STAYING THE SAME. 16 NOTICES WERE MAILED ZERO IN FAVOR, ZERO OPPOSED NO REGISTERED NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION WITHIN 200 FEET. AND OUTSIDE THE 200 FEET THERE ARE 28 OPPOSED. THE PORTION CURRENTLY ZONED NP 10 IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE ZONING FOR THE PROPERTY AND SURROUNDING AREA. THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED C TWO COMMERCIAL DISTRICT IS AN APPROPRIATE ZONING. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT THE PERIMETER OF A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD CONSISTING OF BOTH SINGLE FAMILY AND MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS AND FRONTS. INTERSTATE HIGHWAY 10. THE PROPOSED CHANGE TO COMMERCIAL WOULD ALLOW FOR CO COHESIVE ZONING ON THE PARCEL AS THE CURRENT NP 10 DESIGNATION IS FIXED BETWEEN TWO COMMERCIAL DESIGNATIONS, MAKING DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOT DIFFICULT. ADDITIONALLY, THE COMMERCIAL DESIGNATION WOULD ACT AS A TRANSITION BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL USES AND THE HIGHWAY MODERATE COMMERCIAL USES WOULD BE PERMITTED WITHIN THE C TWO BASED ZONE, SUCH AS PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AND RETAIL USES, WHICH ARE CAPABLE OF SERVING THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS ON A LARGER SCALE. STAFF AND PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMEND APPROVAL AND THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND AMEND THEIR REQUEST TO C TWO AND A. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. IF WE COULD HAVE THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE PLEASE. GOOD AFTERNOON. ERNAN MEDINA, BA 7 0 7 3 SAN PEDRO. UM, CAN GO TO THE NEXT ONE? YES. UM, OH, WITH THIS. OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS PROPERTY IS, UH, I DUNNO IF YOU CAN SEE THE RIGHT, THE, IT'S RIGHT THERE. THE SITE IS NIETO DRIVE, THIS IS SITE 10 AND THIS IS 1604. THIS IS THE PALOMA NEIGHBORHOOD, PALOMA SUBDIVISION NEIGHBORHOOD. THE DEVELOPER OF THE SITE IN QUESTION IS MR. BRUCE CASH. HE DEVELOPED THIS ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD HERE, UM, UH, FROM THE BEGINNING HE BUILT ALL THE STREETS AND AND INFRASTRUCTURE THERE. AND, UM, AND HERE'S A MAP OF THE ZONING AROUND THE AREA RIGHT NOW. THERE'S, UH, INDUSTRIAL, THERE'S C3, THERE'S INDUSTRIAL C3 C TWO, THERE'S UH, C TWO AND C TWO. RIGHT NOW THERE'S A SCHOOL BEING BUILT, UH, ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE SITE IN QUESTION. UM, AND, UM, AND THIS IS A MASTER PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN, UH, MARCH TWO, UH, FOURTH 2009. THIS AREA RIGHT HERE, UH, MR. BRUCE CASH IS, IS THE DEVELOPER AND HE IS THE, THE ONE THAT SUBMITTED AND GOT THIS, UH, MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN APPROVED. THIS IS THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION RIGHT HERE. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN, UH, REQUESTED AS COMMERCIAL. UM, AND THEN, UH, THIS IS THE MULTIFAMILY AND THIS IS WHERE THE SCHOOL IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. UM, SO RIGHT NOW WE, THIS IS THE CURRENT EXISTING ZONING. UH, THERE'S A C TWO ZONING IN THE VERY FRONT OF THE PROPERTY. THERE'S, UH, MXD DEVELOPMENT, WHICH ACTUALLY ALLOWS C TWO DEVELOPMENT. AND JUST I WANNA POINT OUT THAT, UH, THE ONE RESIDENTIAL LOT, UH, THAT IS ABUTTING THIS PROPERTY IS ALREADY ABUTTING THIS COMMERCIAL, UH, ALLOWED, UH, ZONING RIGHT HERE. SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET THIS, UH, LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL ZONING IN THE MIDDLE, UH, THAT IS SANDWICHED BETWEEN THE TWO COMMERCIAL SITES. AND, UH, PROVIDED A C TWO, UH, I WILL SAY RIGHT NOW, UH, THAT, UM, THE, THE OWNER IS NOT PLANNING ON DEVELOPING THIS PROPERTY. HE JUST WANTS TO, THIS IS THE LAST PROPERTY HE HAS OUT HERE ON, UH, FROM WHAT WAS HIS MASTER PLAN, MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN. UH, THAT'S HIS LAST PROPERTY. SO HE'S LOOKING TO SELL THIS PROPERTY AND THAT'S WHY HE'S TRYING TO CLEAN UP THE ZONING. UH, OBVIOUSLY NP 10 IS NOT A SUITABLE, UH, DEVELOPMENT FOR BEING RIGHT NEXT TO THE HIGHWAY. AND, UH, JUST WANTED TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF A, A HISTORY. WE HAVE, UH, WE HAD AT THE VERY BEGINNING GONE IN FOR A C TWO WITH, UM, WITH, UH, UH, A SPECIAL, UH, A SPECIAL ZONING BECAUSE THERE WAS SOMEBODY THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN INTERESTED IN PUTTING A GAS STATION WITH A CAR WASH THERE. SO WE WERE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL, UH, PERMISSIONS ON THAT. BUT WE MET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THEY DID NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF A CAR WASH. THEY DID NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF TRUCKS, UH, UH, PARKING OUT THERE. SO THE DEVELOPER PULLED THAT, UH, FROM THE REQUEST. WE'RE ONLY NOW ASKING FOR C TWO, UH, DESIGNATION. UM, THE DEVELOPMENT COULD NOT HAVE, UH, ALCOHOL SALES BECAUSE THERE IS A SCHOOL HAPPENING [00:45:01] ACROSS THE STREET FROM IT. UH, BUT, UH, JUST LIKE HE, HE KIND OF, UH, DID AWAY WITH REQUESTING, UH, THAT SPECIAL DESIGNATION HE WOULD BE IF, IF, YOU KNOW, FROM FEEDBACK FROM YOU ALL. HE WOULD ALSO BE WILLING, HE WOULD RATHER NOT, BUT HE WOULD BE WILLING TO, UH, GO TO C TWO NA. UM, SO THAT IS THE HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY AND, UM, JUST HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO GET WHAT HE HAD ALWAYS ASKED FOR AND HE HAD, UH, GOTTEN APPROVED BACK WITH THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU MR. JARAMILLO. UM, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? WE DO. THE FIRST IS AMELIA PEACOCK. MS. PEACOCK, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. IF YOU WOULD, UH, YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. SAME, SAME KITTEN CABOODLE. YOU GOT IT. AMELIA PEACOCK, 28 0 7 MILLIKEN DRIVE. THANK YOU. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. UM, I RESPECTFULLY ASK YOU TO CONSIDER FOUR QUESTIONS TODAY. ONE AFTER THREE HEARINGS. THIS TRACK, WHAT PLANNING OR WHAT PLANNING OR DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES DOES THIS ADDITIONAL C TWO ZONING SERVE FOR TODAY'S COMMUNITY? SECOND, IF THERE IS NO SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL, WHAT ADDITIONAL USES WOULD ALLOW, WOULD SEE TO ALLOW? AND HOW HAVE THOSE BEEN USES BEEN EVALUATED FOR COMPATIBILITY WITH THE HOMES, APARTMENTS, PEDESTRIAN ACTIVITY AND SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT THAT NOW SURROUNDS THIS PROPERTY. THIRD, WHAT HAS CHANGED THAT JUSTIFIES REMOVING THE REMAINING NP 10 ZONING AFTER THE SUBSTANTIAL RESIDENTIAL MIXED USE, COMMERCIAL AND INSTITUTIONAL GROWTH ALREADY OCCURRING IN THIS AREA. FOURTH, WHAT DATA OR ANALYSIS DEMONSTRATES THAT EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY CAN APPROPRIATELY ACCOMMODATE THE ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT INTENSITY ALLOWED BY THIS CHANGE? I AM A PALONA PALOMA, UH, RESIDENT AND A VETERAN. AND THIS, AGAIN, THIRD TIME I'VE BEEN HERE SPEAKING AND I'VE NOT HAD ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS ANSWERED. SO THERE'S A LOT OF AMBIGUITY THAT GOES INTO THIS AND THEREFORE INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, I'M NOT OPPOSED TO GROWTH. HOWEVER, THE TEXAS ZONING LAW RECOGNIZES PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, GENERAL WELFARE, WELFARE, COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING, AND SUITABILITY OF LAND FOR PARTICULAR USES AS ZONING CONSIDERATIONS. NOT JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY WANTS TO SELL IT AND WANTS IT REZONED TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO RESELL. THIS SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS BEING LOOKED AT BY THE COMMUNITY AND NOT SIMPLY AS A, SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO BECAUSE THEY DID NOT PLAN AHEAD IN 2009 UP UNTIL THIS POINT FOR THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY WERE PUTTING IN PLACE IN THIS AREA. THESE ARE WHERE REAL PEOPLE LIVE, FAMILIES LIVE HERE. THE, THIS IS WHERE EVERYONE IS MAKING THEIR HOME. AND SO THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT HYPOTHETICAL CONCERNS. THEY'RE REAL TRAFFIC, ROADWAY CAPACITY, DRAINAGE, LIGHTING, PEDESTRIAN SAFETY WHILE DEVELOPMENT CONTINUES AROUND THE HOMES, THE HOMES SURROUNDING THIS TRACTOR, NOT SIMPLY ZONING DESIGNATIONS. AGAIN, IT'S WHERE FAMILIES HAVE BUILT THEIR LIVES. SO TODAY I AM GONNA ASK YOU TO DENY THIS AND, UM, THANK YOU MS. PEACOCK, YOUR TIME. ASK FOR ADDITIONAL STUFF. THANK YOU. BUT I THINK COMMISSIONER LO MIGHT BRING YOU BACK UP. YOU MIGHT WANT TO JUST SIT IN THE FRONT ROW. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UH, MS. MOST YOU'RE NEXT . OKAY. UH, JOE MO, PUT MY PIC THE PICTURE. THEY DIDN'T PUT MY PICTURE UP. UH, THE UP THERE IT GOES. PICTURE. YOU GOT MY PICTURE. YOU'RE GONNA PUT THAT UP. THERE IT IS. OH, SORRY, SORRY, SORRY. IT'S ALL RIGHT. , UH, JOE MOST 1 0 7 6 2 GEOCON DRIVE. UH, AS YOU CAN SEE BY THE PICTURE, THERE'S A HOUSE RIGHT NEXT TO ALL THOSE WEEDS. THAT'S THE LOT THAT THEY WANT TO BUILD A BUSINESS IN. UH, SAN ANTONIO HAS A ZONING ORDINANCE SO THAT THEY CAN SAY WHERE BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTIAL ARE, AND TYPICALLY THEY'RE IN SEPARATE AREAS, BUT IN THIS CASE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE IN THE SAME AREA. SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT HAPPENED. UM, SO THE LANDOWNER IS THE SAME PERSON THAT PLANNED THE PALOMA COMMUNITY. SO THEY CREATED THIS PROBLEM THEMSELVES. NOW THEY WANNA WASH THEIR HANDS OF IT AND MAKE IT PALOMA'S RESIDENTIAL PROBLEM. THEY'RE ONLY INTERESTED IN MAKING A PROFIT, UM, AND, UM, NOT REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THE RESIDENTS WILL DO. SO THE PRESIDENTS SUCH AS THAT, UH, PROPERTY VALUE WILL DEFINITELY GO LOW. UM, THE, SO IMAGINE YOU'RE THE PERSON THAT LIVES IN THAT HOUSE. YOU BOUGHT THIS HOUSE THINKING YOU WERE GONNA BE MAKING A GOOD INVESTMENT BECAUSE YOU WOULD'VE NEVER IMAGINED THAT A BUSINESS WOULD EVER BE BUILT NEXT TO YOU. [00:50:01] SO YOU PAID $350,000 FOR THIS HOUSE, AND THEN, UH, YOU FIND OUT A JIFFY LUBES GONNA BE RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR HOUSE. WELL, YOU DON'T WANNA LIVE NEXT TO A JIFFY LUBE, ALL THE NOISE AND SMELLS. SO YOU DECIDE TO PUT YOUR HOUSE UP FOR SALE AND, UH, YOU WAIT MONTHS AND MONTHS AND FINALLY GET AN OFFER FOR 250,000. WELL, YOUR MORTGAGE IS MORE THAN THAT, SO YOU CAN'T MAKE, CAN'T SELL IT BECAUSE YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO PAY IT OFF. SO I, NO ONE WOULD EVER THINK WHEN THEY BOUGHT THAT HOUSE THAT AN INVASIVE BUSINESS THAT THE CITY WOULD ALLOW AN INVASIVE BUSINESS TO BE BUILT THERE. SO, UH, I JUST, WE JUST WERE REALLY REQUESTING THAT YOU PLEASE SAY NO TO THIS ZONING CHANGE. UM, BECAUSE IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE PALOMA COMMUNITY TO SUDDENLY HAVE THEIR PROPERTY VALUES BE LOWERED BECAUSE THE APPLICANT DIDN'T PLAN AHEAD. SO ALSO THE PROPERTY, THE, UH, O OWNERS SAID THAT THEY HAD REQUESTED AND TALKED TO US. THEY HAD ONE SHORT MEETING WITH US. SO THEY HAVE NOT BEEN WILLING, DISTRICT TWO HAS TRIED TO SET UP OTHER MEETINGS SO WE CAN NEGOTIATE BETTER TERMS FOR THIS. THEY HAVEN'T WANTED TO DO THAT. THEY HAVE SPECIFICALLY DECIDED NOT TO TALK TO US AND NOT TO CARE ABOUT HOW WE'RE FEELING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS PROPERTY. AND THAT IS TIME. OKAY. ALRIGHT, WELL, PLEASE SAY NO, I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE'S PHONE. THAT'S HOW WELL I'M DOING TODAY. UH, ANY FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT? NO FURTHER COMMENT. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. OH, MS. MOST YOU MIGHT WANNA SIT IN THE FRONT ROW TOO. UM, ALRIGHT. THIS IS A DISTRICT TWO CASE. COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. OH, SORRY, REBUTTAL. I APOLOGIZE MR. AMI REBUTTAL, LIKE I SAID, I'M NOT DOING GREAT TODAY. YOU CAN USE THE REBUTTAL. YOU CAN NOT EITHER WAY, BUT IT'S ABOUT THREE MINUTES. SURE. UM, YES, UH, JUST TO CLARIFY, THE, THE HOUSE THAT WAS SHOWN EARLIER IS UP AGAINST ALREADY COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. UM, WE DID MEET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE COUNCIL, UH, LIAISON DID SET UP A MEETING. WE HAD A TEAMS MEETING. UH, WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO IT, IT'S JUST WE HAVE HEARD THE, THE COMMENTARY THERE, THE, THAT THEY WANT, I MEAN WE'VE HAD, WE HEARD A LOT OF REASONS WHY THEY DIDN'T WANT THIS. UH, I THINK THE, THE DEVELOPER HAS, UH, GIVEN IN, GIVEN AWAY THE, THE SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS JUST GOING WITH C TWO, EVEN GOING WITH C TWO AND A IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL WANT TO GIVE US FEEDBACK ON. BUT IT'S REALLY TO CLEAN UP THIS PROPERTY. THE, AND THE, THE LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL DOES NOT, IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE ZONING FOR THAT AREA. AND UH, IT WOULD BE, IT WAS ALWAYS WENT BACK IN 2009 WHEN HE DID THE MDP. HE WAS ALREADY REQUESTING COMMERCIAL. THANK YOU MR. JARAMILLO. ALRIGHT, NOW, COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. THANKS, UH, MS. PEACOCK, I WAS GONNA INVITE YOU UP TO FINISH WHATEVER YOU HAD TO SAY. THANK YOU. UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE LAST BIT OF WHAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE IS JUST THE CONDITIONS SURROUNDING THIS PROPERTY HAVE CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY. WE HAVE NOW HAVE ESTABLISHED HOMES, APARTMENTS, MIXED USE AND COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, AND A 6,500 SQUARE OR 65,000 SQUARE FOOT K THROUGH EIGHT SKILL SCHOOL, WHICH IS BEING DEVELOPED NEARBY. THE MXD THAT IS THERE WOULD ALLOW FOR APPROPRIATE COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS TO OCCUR. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IS WHY IT IS PART OF THE AREA WHERE THE, UM, APARTMENTS AND EVERYTHING IS. SO THAT THAT COULD BE UTILIZED AS THAT. HOWEVER, THIS RE THE, AS DEVELOPMENT INTENSITY INCREASES, COMPATIBILITY BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT, NOT LESS. AND SO THIS REQUEST WOULD CHANGE THE REMAINING MP 10 PORTION OF THE 9.295 ACRE TRACT TO C TWO WITHOUT A SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL. THE DECISION IS WHETHER THE RANGE OF USES ALLOWED UNDER C TWO IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS LAND AND WHAT IT NOW SURROUNDS. I UNDERSTAND THEY'RE WILLING TO MOVE INTO THE C TWO NA, HOWEVER THAT IS AN A PROMOTION FROM LAST, UH, MEETING WHEN I SPOKE TO THIS ONE. AND THAT WAS NOT COMMUNICATED IN ANY OTHER WAY PRIOR OR NOR IS PART OF PUBLIC RECORD THAT I COULD FIND WHEN I LOOKED AND DID MY DUE DILIGENCE. AND THAT AGAIN, IT'S JUST NOT HYPOTHETICAL AND UM, IT'S A REAL SITUATION THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE ROADS THAT WE'RE ALREADY DEALING WITH. WE HAVE ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PUT INTO PLACE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. AND IF THIS LANDOWNER WAS INTERESTED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BEING A GOOD PLACEMENT, WHY DO WE NOT HAVE SPEED LIMIT SIGNS? WHY DO WE HAVE STOP SIGNS THAT ARE MISSING? WHY DO WE HAVE STREET SIGNS THAT ARE MISSING? WHY DO WE HAVE NOTHING ELSE IN THERE? BUT WE'RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT THE ZONING OF THIS ONE AREA, BUT WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHAT IS ACTUALLY IN IT AND WHAT IS NOT BEING FIXED. THAT IS MINE. AND THAT'S WHY I'M REQUESTING A DENIAL [00:55:01] AND FURTHER COMMUNICATION REGARDING APPRO AN APPROPRIATE WAY OF COMMUNICATING AND SPEAKING IT OUT AND SEEING WHAT CAN COME TO BE THE BEST SOLUTION FOR EVERYBODY INVOLVED. THANK YOU MA'AM. THANK YOU. UM, CAN I GET THE DEVELOPER, OR SORRY, THE PROPERTY OWNER UP OR THE REPRESENTATIVE? EITHER ONE. I JUST WANNA GIVE AN OPPORTUNITY, I THINK OBVIOUSLY THAT YOU GUYS PRESENTED IT, UM, YOU KNOW, PLANS AND FROM 2009, I KNOW THE LOT HAS BEEN THE WAY IT IS SINCE THEN, SINCE 2009 BECAUSE THERE'S NO PROPOSED PROJECT AND YOU ALL HAVE COMMUNICATED IT'S ABOUT BEING ABLE TO SELL THIS LOT AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE ISSUES FROM THE NEIGHBORS. I'M CURIOUS IF YOU COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT AS TO WHAT THE INTENTION WAS WITH THE LOT GIVEN THE COMBO OF ZONING WHEN IT WAS INITIALLY PURCHASED. WELL, THE COMBO ZONING WAS NOT AN IN AN INTENTION EVER. IT WAS ALWAYS ASKED FOR AS A COMMERCIAL BACK WHEN WE DID THE MDP, THIS PROPERTY WAS, UH, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, I GUESS, IS THIS STILL HERE? OKAY, SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2009, THIS PROPERTY WAS ALWAYS, UH, REQUESTED TO BE A COMMERCIAL. SO THOSE, UH, THIS, THIS WAS BACK AT THE, THIS WAS COUNTY PROPERTY, UH, THEN THE CITY TOOK IT OVER. BUT, UH, THE CITY AND EVERYBODY, ALL THE REVIEWERS KNEW THAT THIS WOULD EVENTUALLY, THAT'S WHY THERE'S MULTIFAMILY THERE. THAT'S WHY THERE'S A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY RIGHT THERE. AND, UH, SO YES, THE, THE INTENT WAS ALWAYS FOR THIS PROPERTY TO BE COMMERCIAL AND OBVIOUSLY, UH, IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO I 10 AND VERY, VERY CLOSE TO 1604. I CAN GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, CRITERIA AS WELL. THIS PROPERTY, THE MIX, THE SPLIT ZONE WAS PART OF A PROPERTY THAT WAS ANNEXED INTO THE CITY IN 1986. AND THAT'S WHEN IT WAS GIVEN THE ZONING. BUT THEN IN 2017 WHEN THE REST OF THE PROPERTY WAS ANNEXED INTO THE CITY, THAT'S WHEN THEY, UM, ASSIGNED IT THAT MXD. SO THEY COULDN'T ASSIGN, UH, ZONING TO A PROPERTY THAT WAS ALREADY ANNEXED INTO THE CITY. ONLY THE PROPERTY THAT WAS BEING ANNEXED AT THAT TIME IN 2017, IF THAT. SO TO CLARIFY, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS COMBO OF ALL THREE BECAUSE THE LAST PART WASN'T ANNEXED AT THE SAME TIME AS THE FIRST TWO PARTS. CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO THAT WAS, BUT THIS WAS IN 2009. I I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE, LIKE WHEN THIS WAS PURCHASED, YOU ALL KNEW WHAT THE ZONING WAS AND HAD INTENTIONS TO CHANGE IT, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS COMBINED. YES, YES, YES. AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, YOU CAN SEE, UH, HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE, AND THE ONE THAT I ZOOMED IN A LITTLE BIT CLOSER THERE IS WHERE IT SAYS COMMERCIAL UNIT TWO, UH, MX. BUT RIGHT THERE, IF YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN SEE THAT WE ARE SAYING THAT THAT WAS, UH, M THAT IS LARGE, LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL. WE KNEW THAT THAT WAS THERE, BUT WE WERE ASKING FOR IT TO BE ALL COMMERCIAL. YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE. I APPRECIATE IT. UH, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. I AM GOOD FOR QUESTIONS FOR NOW. THANK YOU SO MUCH. COMMISSIONER. QUESTIONS TO MY RIGHT? YES, COMMISSIONER? UH, YES. QUESTION FOR STAFF. UH, REAL QUICK, I'M, I'M ASSUMING THE NEW SCHOOL IS BEING BUILT, I SHOULD KNOW THIS, BUT IT'S, UH, CENTRAL ISD WERE THEY NOTIFIED OR WERE THEY WITHIN THE 200 FEET AND IF THEY WERE, DID WE RECEIVE ANY SORT OF, UH, FEEDBACK? YES, THE SCHOOL WAS NOTIFIED, BUT I DID NOT RECEIVE ANYTHING BACK FROM THEM. OKAY. AND, UH, REMIND ME, UH, AGAIN, MAYBE I MISSED THIS. IS THERE A, AN NA OR HOA AND DID THEY RE, DID THEY SUBMIT A OFFICIAL NOTICE? THERE'S NOT A REGISTERED NEIGHBOR ASSOCIATION WITH THE CITY. OKAY. SO REAL QUICK FOR THE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE HERE, GET REGISTERED. OKAY. NEXT WOULD BE, UH, MA'AM HOLD ON. IT'S FOR THE CITY STAFF. NP. SO THE NP, WHAT I HAVE HERE, I'M NOT TOO, TOO FAMILIAR WITH THAT. UM, MP 10, IT SAYS USE USES ARE THE SAME AS WITHIN R SIX. UM, WHEN WAS THAT CHANGED TO MP 10? WHAT YEAR? 'CAUSE I HEARD MX, BUT THE MP 10 PART, SO I BELIEVE AGAIN, THE MP 10 WAS THE ESTABLISHED ZONING WHEN IT WAS ANNEXED IN 1986. SO IN 1989 IT GOT CHANGED TO RA RESIDENCE AGRICULTURE DISTRICT. AND THEN IN 2001 WITH OUR ZONING CODE CHANGE THAT GOT CONVERTED TO THE NP 10, THE CURRENT NP 10 NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION DISTRICT. GOTCHA. THANK YOU MR. TAN. AND THEN A QUESTION REAL QUICK FOR THE, UH, APPLICANT, SIR, UM, WHY ARE YOU COMING UP HERE? UH, IT SAYS, UH, APPROVED MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN. WHO APPROVED IT? [01:00:01] UH, THIS WENT THROUGH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AND THE COUNTY. OKAY, THANK YOU SIR. AND FIRST A QUESTION FOR STAFFER, MR. SO IS THAT, WAS THAT LIKE, UH, APPROVED BY CITY COUNCIL OR, I MEAN, WHAT, IT DOESN'T FOR ME, IT LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING I JUST PRINTED, I'LL PRINT OUT FOR MY KIDS OR SOMETHING. I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING BAD, BUT I'M SAYING IS THERE A LEGITIMACY TO THIS? YES. SO THE MXD, SO THIS PLAN WAS APPROVED THROUGH THE ANNEXATION. SO THAT WAS IN 2017. AND SO THAT WAS THROUGH CITY COUNCIL. SO THE, I I CAN CHIME IN. THANK YOU FOR THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN. MELISSA RAMIREZ, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLANS ARE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY AND IN THAT PROCESS THE MASTER OF DEVELOPMENT PLANS, WE DO HAVE JURISDICTION TO APPROVE THOSE THROUGH OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE. GOT IT. UNDERSTOOD. OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU CHAIR. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO MY LEFT COMMISSIONER QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONER GOOGLE. SO, UH, I, I'D, UH, NEED SOME CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF ON, ON PROCESS HERE. SO THE APPROVED MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS A DOCUMENT THAT'S REQUIRED AS PART OF THE ANNEXATION PROCESS. WHAT, WHAT DOES THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, WHAT LEGAL EFFECT DOES IT HAVE OTHER THAN JUST THE, THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS NOT REQUIRED AS PART OF ANNEXATION. A MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS REQUIRED WHENEVER A PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT INTENDS TO BE BUILT OUT IN MORE THAN ONE PLAT PHASE. SO THEY ARE, WE HAVE MDPS, WE REGULATE THOSE IN THE CITY AND THE ETJ. SO AT THE TIME OF ANNEXATION, THIS MDP WAS ALREADY ON FILE. AND THEN WHEN THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS APPROVED, DOES IT ANTICIPATE FUTURE PHASES WITH ZONING CHANGES OR LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THIS CASE THE, THE, THE UNDERLYING ZONING WAS MP 10, BUT THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED, APPROVED A MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT INDICATED IT WAS C SO THEY, SO AT THE TIME THE MDP WAS SUBMITTED AND APPROVED IN 2009, IT WAS NOT INSIDE CITY LIMITS. SO IT WOULD NOT HAVE, AT THAT TIME ANTICIPATED ZONING. SO THEY LAY OUT WHAT THEIR INTENDED USES ARE IN THE ETJ, THERE ARE VERY LIMITED LAND USE CONTROLS. AT THE TIME OF ANNEXATION, THE PROPERTY WOULD'VE BEEN GIVEN ZONING THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE ALIGNED WITH THE MDP ON FILE. AND, AND WHO OR WHAT GAVE THAT ZONING WHEN THE ANNEXATION WAS AFFECTED CITY COUNCIL. SO CITY COUNCIL SEPARATELY IN A SEPARATE INSTRUMENT APPROVED MP 10 ZONING, OR THEY JUST CARRIED OVER FROM THE COUNTY'S MP 10 SOMETHING. SO I GUESS WITH THE MP 10, BECAUSE THIS ZONING WAS GIVEN WHEN IT WAS PART OF THE ANNEXATION, THE NP 10 AND THE C TWO TECHNICALLY WERE NOT PART OF THIS ANNEXATION. SO ANNEX, THE ZONING GIVEN TO THE ANNEXED PARCELS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN APPLICABLE TO THE C TWO AND THE NP 10 PARCELS SINCE THOSE WERE TECHNICALLY ALREADY ANNEXED. I'M SORRY, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. I, I MEAN, IS THAT LIKE, THAT'S JUST A, SOUNDS LIKE A TECHNICAL HICCUP OR SOMETHING. RIGHT. OKAY. I I, I CAN COME BACK ON THAT POINT. OKAY. LET, LET ME TAKE ANOTHER STAB AT THIS ONE. OKAY. YEAH, PLEASE. A VERY SLIM PORTION OF THE PROPERTY FRONTING I 10 WAS ANNEXED IN THE LATE 1980S. IS THAT CORRECT? SO FAR, KELLY? SO A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY HAD ZONING THE OLD RA RESIDENCE AGRICULTURAL DISTRICT THAT CONVERTED TO TODAY'S NP 10, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY LARGE LOT SINGLE FAMILY. IN 2009, AN MDP WAS SUBMITTED THAT INCLUDED PART OF THAT AREA ALREADY INSIDE CITY LIMITS AND A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION THAT WAS STILL IN THE COUNTY BEHIND THAT AREA THAT FRONTED I 10 ADDITIONAL PORTIONS OF THIS PROPERTY WERE ANNEXED IN 2017, AFTER THE MDP WAS ALREADY APPROVED. SO THERE WAS ANNEXED, BUT IT'S NOT ANNEXED UNDER THE MDP? CORRECT. RIGHT. OKAY. OH YEAH. UM, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NP 10. I'VE HEARD IT REFERRED TO AS LARGE LOT, BUT WHAT DOES THE NP ACTUALLY STAND FOR? NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION AND, UH, THE, THE PURPOSE, THE, WHAT DOES THE UDC SAY IS THE PURPOSE OF NP? LET ME PULL THAT UP REAL QUICK. I, I MEAN, I, I ALWAYS USE, I MEAN IN, [01:05:01] I I I GOOGLE IT, BUT I MEAN, DESIGNED TO PROTECT EXISTING, ESTABLISHED SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISIONS FROM INCOMPATIBLE DEVELOPMENT OR OVER DENSIFICATION. DOES THAT SOUND, THAT SOUNDS, THAT SOUNDS PRETTY FAIR. OKAY. I, SO, SO THEN, IS IT FAIR TO SAY THE PURPOSE OF NP NP ZONING IS TO ENSURE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE HIGH DENSITY ON A BUDDING RESIDENTIAL USES? IT'S LIKE TO BUFFER RESIDENTIAL USES FROM HIGHER DENSITY USES? I THINK THAT THAT'S FAIR TO SAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, TO THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE, OR IS THAT THE APPLICANT RIGHT THERE OR? SO IF YOU COULD, UH, MAYBE THE APPLICANT, IF YOU COULD COME UP, UM, OR, OR THE REPRESENTATIVE, WHOEVER YOU LIKE, BUT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION BETTER. AND MR. BEST, IF YOU WOULD SAY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. UH, BRUCE GAS 37 0 1 LONG TEMP DRIVE, AUSTIN, TEXAS. IF YOU COULD CLARIFY FOR ME HERE, I, I JUST CAN'T SEE HOW IN THIS PROCESS. SO THE NP WOULD'VE NOT WANTED TO CHANGE THAT EARLIER. WHY? WHY NOW WE, WHEN THE CITY ANNEXED IT, WE MISSED THE PART THAT THEY WERE DOING THAT AS MD 10. IT IS ALWAYS MEANT TO BE COMMERCIAL. THAT'S ALL WE EVER INTENDED TO BE. AND THE PROPERTY JUST WEST OF US THAT BUST UP TO OUR LARGE LOT, IT'S ALL C TWO COMMERCIAL. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET UNIFORM LIKE WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL ALONG IN OUR, IN OUR MIND, WE, WE HAD NO, WE, I STARTED TRYING TO GET RID OF THIS PROPERTY IS WHEN I FIGURED OUT WE HAD A FLAG. THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF ZONING ON ONE LITTLE PIECE OF PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO STRAIGHTEN OUT. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. IF, IF I CAN JUST FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION, ADD ONE THING, PLEASE DO. CERTAINLY THERE IS LANGUAGE IN THE CODE TODAY THAT TALKS ABOUT THE INTENT OF P 10 ZONING. I DO WANT TO CLARIFY THAT AT NO POINT IN TIME DID CITY STAFF LOOK AT THIS PARCEL AND DETERMINE THAT NP 10 WAS THE MOST APPROPRIATE. IT WAS GIVEN RESIDENTIAL AGRICULTURAL ZONING IN THE EIGHTIES THAT CONVERTED TO NP 10 UPON THE ADOPTION OF THE 2001 UDC. SO CONSIDER THAT AS WELL. I SEE. SO THAT WAS LIKE AN AUTOMATIC CODE CHANGE. OKAY. UM, LASTLY TO STAFF, UH, MXD, WHAT USES ARE PERMITTED WITHIN MXD PARTICULARLY, LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT'S THE SCOPE OF IT AS MXD? I MEANT MIXED USE. SO YOU, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A MIX OF RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL USES, TYPICALLY COMMERCIAL OF IN NATURE. UH, DO YOU KNOW IF IT GOES UP TO C TWO OR C3? CORRECT. IT GOES UP TO C3 THREE C3, YES. ALRIGHT. SO RIGHT NOW ALONG A VASQUEZ CIRCLE WITH A SITE PLAN, A DEVELOPER COULD BUILD UP TO C3? THAT IS CORRECT. IF THE SITE PLAN CALLS OUT C3 USES IS, IS THAT SITE PLAN THEN A DISCRETIONARY APPROVAL? YES. THAT SITE PLAN WAS PART OF THE MXD APPROVAL BY CITY COUNCIL. AND THEN DOES, UH, THE SITE PLAN GO BEFORE COMMISSION OR COUNCIL OR IS IT A STAFF LEVEL APPROVAL? I'M SORRY, THE SITE PLAN OF ON AN MXD DEVELOPMENT OF MXD REQUIRES THE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION REQUIRES OH, ZONING SITE, IF ANY PERMITS THAT COME IN NOW IT HAS, IT GOES THROUGH ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW WHERE IT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE MXD PLAN. OKAY. BUT, BUT TO CLARIFY, THE SITE PLAN IS REVIEWED BY THE ZONING COMMISSION AND THE CITY COUNCIL AS PART OF THE CHANGE OF ZONING. OKAY. SO, AND, AND I, SO YOU KNOW, IT INCLUDES UP TO C3, IT'S STILL A DISCRETIONARY APPROVAL FOR THE ZONING COMMISSION? CORRECT. AND THERE ARE SOME STANDARDS, SO, YOU KNOW, MS, UH, MS. BEST HAD SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S CONCERNING THAT THERE'S COMMERCIAL USES RIGHT NEXT TO THIS HOME, BUT THERE IS A SETBACK OF 25 FEET STANDARDIZED IN THE MXD CODE, SO. GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALRIGHT. QUESTIONS TO MY LEFT. COMMISSIONER WHATSUP, I THINK MOSES PROBABLY GOT MOST OF THEM FOR ME, BUT, UH, THE, UH, SO ON THE MXD, IT LOOKS LIKE IT MUST HAVE JUST, THEY PUT THE ROAD THROUGH WHAT WAS A BIG SECTION OF MXD AND THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT GOT SPLIT UP AT SOME POINT. UM, BUT THEY CAN'T, IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO DO COMMERCIAL THERE, IT'S NOT JUST LIKE YOU'RE GONNA GET STOPPED BECAUSE SOMEBODY DOESN'T LIKE IT. IS THAT THE CASE? I MEAN, OR IS IT, IS IT TOTALLY ARBITRARY TO, UH, THE COUNCIL OR THE ZONING SAYING, WE DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD DO COMMERCIAL HERE, IT SHOULD ONLY BE RESIDENTIAL, YET THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO TO C3. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ON THE MXD PORTION? ON THE MXD? YES, BECAUSE I'M JUST LOOKING AT, YOU'VE GOT COMMERCIAL, THEN YOU'VE GOT RESIDENTIAL IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT COMMERCIAL ON THE OTHER SIDE IS HOW DOES, HOW, HOW DO YOU GET THAT COMPATIBLE WHERE IT'S BALANCED? IT'S [01:10:01] ALMOST LIKE THE RESIDENTIAL SHOULD BE ALONG SCA CIRCLE AND SWITCHED. SO THERE'S, THERE'S TWO UM, KIND OF DOCUMENTS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY HERE. THERE'S A MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT'S APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY. IF YOU SATISFY THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CODE, IT GETS APPROVED. UM, YOU HAVE A CHANGE OF ZONING FOR THE MXD, WHICH INCLUDES A SITE PLAN THAT THIS BODY AND CITY COUNCIL CAN REGULATE. THEY CAN SAY, I DON'T THINK RESIDENTIAL MAKES SENSE THERE. MAYBE OVER HERE. THAT'S MORE OF A DISCRETIONARY PROCESS. SO IN THIS INSTANCE, THEY'RE TRYING TO GET THE ZONING, UH, FOR THESE OTHER USES TO, TO MATCH THAT, THAT OTHER, UH, ALLOWANCE. ALRIGHT. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS TO MY LEFT? ? THAT WAS QUITE THE PAUSE. COMMISSIONER SIPES. UM, ALRIGHT, MR. HATAMI, IF I COULD ASK A, A QUICK QUESTION OF YOU, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CONCERNS RAISED BY MS MOST AND MS. PEACOCK IS, YOU KNOW, THIS COMMERCIAL USE AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, SORT OF OPEN-ENDED NATURE EVEN WITH THE NA, WHICH I APPRECIATE Y'ALL DOING THAT, THAT'S HELPFUL. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT I THINK IS OFTEN FREQUENTLY HELPFUL IN ADDRESSING CONCERNS OF NEIGHBORS IS USING A CONDITIONAL USE OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE TO SORT OF SPECIFY AND, AND USE THOSE TOOLS, AVAILABLE SETBACKS, UH, LIGHTING, NOISE, SIGNAGE, THESE VARIOUS CONDITIONS THAT WE CAN APPLY TO THESE THINGS. WOULD Y'ALL BE WILLING TO CONSIDER SOME OF THAT? I MEAN, IT MIGHT LIMIT YOUR USES TO SOME EXTENT, BUT IT MIGHT GIVE YOU THE TOOLS NECESSARY. AND FRANKLY, THIS IS FROM THE FIRST TIME I HEARD THIS AT PLANNING THREE MEETINGS AGO WAS MY HOPE, AND I THINK I SAID IT DURING PLANNING THAT AT ZONING WE HAD A NUMBER OF TOOLS AVAILABLE TO US THROUGH CONDITIONAL USES. NOW I UNDERSTAND, AND I'M EVENTUALLY GONNA GET TO A QUESTION, I GUESS THIS IS A VERY LONG PREFACE , UM, THAT YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A, A PERSPECTIVE BUYER AT THIS TIME AND THEREFORE DO NOT HAVE A PERSPECTIVE USE. UM, BUT IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU AND, AND, AND, UH, THE OWNER WOULD CONSIDER? I GUESS, UH, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE HAD, HAVE, UH, ARE AGAINST SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS, UH, AGAINST IT, BUT THE REASONS WE'VE HEARD THAT THEY'RE AGAINST IT ARE NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO KIND OF PLAN AROUND. OKAY. UH, THERE HASN'T BEEN, YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S BUFFER ZONES. WHATEVER GETS DEVELOPED, THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND GET APPROVED, UH, BASED ON WHAT THE, UH, ADJACENT PROPERTY ZONING IS. SO I'M SURE WHATEVER DEVELOPMENT IS GONNA HAPPEN, THERE'S GONNA MEET THAT. BUT, UM, AND I UNDERSTAND ALL OF THAT. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, BEING BOUND TO A SITE PLAN, WHICH IS THE PRIMARY THING THAT I'M LOOKING AT HERE, I MEAN, ALL OF THE HOURS OF OPERATION, SIGNAGE, ET CETERA, UM, ARE SUBSIDIARY TO THAT CONCERN. BUT IT SEEMS LIKE TO ME, CERTAINLY FROM THE ISSUE, MS MOST RAISED, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD PREVENT YOU FROM NECESSARILY GOING INTO, UH, IS IT VASQUEZ ORO THERE, UH, YOU KNOW, HAVING EXITS THAT WAY, LIMITING EXITS WITH THE COOPERATION OF, OF TXDOT, UM, TO DO THAT KIND OF STUFF. SO BASICALLY MY QUESTION IS A YES OR NO, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO CONSIDER, UH, THAT KIND OF CONDITIONAL USE IF WE COULD HOBBLE ONE TOGETHER? I THINK, UH, WELL, UH, AND YEAH, I MEAN, I WOULD SPEAK FOR THE DEVELOPER, BUT, BUT I THINK, UH, I THINK WE WOULD BE WILLING TO, TO HEAR WHAT THE, WHAT THESE CONDITIONS ARE, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WELL WHAT ARE THESE CONDITIONS GOING TO BE? YEAH, OF COURSE THEY CAN GET SCARY AND, AND, AND COSTLY. SO I'M, I'M NOT GONNA BIND YOU TO ANYTHING, ANYTHING. CERTAINLY NOTHING AS AMORPHOUS AS CONDITIONS, BUT NO, SORRY, COME ON UP SIR. I'LL, I'LL LET YOU SPEAK, BUT YOU GOTTA SPEAK UP HERE. UH, WHEN IT'S BROUGHT BACK TO YOU, IT'S GONNA BE BROUGHT BACK TO YOU AGAIN POTENTIALLY. YES, SIR. WELL, I DON'T SEE ANY WAY AROUND IT. WHEN EVERYBODY, WHENEVER SOMEONE DECIDES TO PUT WHATEVER BUSINESS THEY WANT, YOU'RE GOING TO GET TO DO, WELL THEN I HAVE A IS THAT NOT TRUE OR SUGGEST? IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. OKAY. THAT'S, I I UNDERSTOOD IT WAS, THAT'S THE ISSUE. NOW, UH, MY SUGGESTION, I MEAN, WELL I'M NOT GONNA MAKE THAT SUGGESTION. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I, I THINK WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS TODAY. SURE, SURE. WE'LL WE WERE, WE'RE APPLICABLE TO ANYTHING, BUT I JUST WANT TO GET IT MOVED DOWN THE ROAD. I MEAN I'M [01:15:01] FAIR ENOUGH, I'VE OWNED THIS 20 YEARS . THAT'S, THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH. UH, YOU OWNED IT WHEN I 10 WAS, WELL I GUESS IT'S STILL WHEN THE CONSTRUCTION AND I 10 THE, THIS RECENT ROUND OF CONSTRUCTION WAS JUST, THERE WAS NOTHING OUT THERE WHEN WE BOUGHT PROPERTY. THERE WAS NOTHING OUT THERE. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. THOSE ARE I THINK MY QUESTIONS, BUT WE'RE GONNA GO BACK AROUND STARTING, DO YOU WANNA START OR DO YOU WANT TO END? COMMISSIONER LO WITH YOUR QUESTIONS? YOU'LL END. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA GO BACK TO THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. LAST ROUND QUESTION. NO QUESTIONS? NO QUESTIONS LEFT? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES. SO WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT REZONING, THE MP 10 PORTION. THE MXD STAYS AS IS CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. OH, THANK YOU. SORRY, I WAS LOOKING THE WRONG WAY OR OVER THERE. OKAY, THANKS. THAT'S IT . ALRIGHT, QUESTIONS TO THE LEFT GUEST COMMISSIONER DVE. SO I, UH, I WANNA ASK ABOUT THE UH, MXD ZONING. UH, DOES MXD ZONING REQUIRE A SITE PLAN WHEN THE ZONING IS APPLIED OR ONLY WHEN A PROJECT IS SUBMITTED FOR DEVELOPMENT? SITE PLAN IS REQUIRED WHEN THE ZONING IS ESTABLISHED. OKAY. SO IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WITH THE ORDINANCE WHEN IT WAS ANNEXED. UH, LET ME RESTATE MY QUESTION. UM, SO I SEE A MXD DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION IS THE FORMAL ZONING SITE PLAN THAT'S REVIEWED. UM, IS THAT MXD DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION REQUIRED IN ORDER TO ZONE IT AS MXD OR IS THE DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION ONLY REQUIRED ONCE AN APPLICANT WANTS TO DEVELOP A PROJECT? I'M NOT KNOWING WHAT APPLICATION YOU'RE LOOKING AT, SO I COULDN'T SAY. YEAH. OKAY. SO LET ME GIVE CONTEXT. WHAT I WAS WONDERING ABOUT WAS, COULD THE NP 10 SECTION OF THIS PROJECT BE ZONED MXD, UH, TO ALLOW FLEXIBILITY IN USES BUT STILL ALLOW, YOU KNOW, STILL HAVE SITE PLAN REVIEW TO ADDRESS NEIGHBORHOODS CONCERNS? IT'S A POSSIBILITY, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO CREATE A NEW SITE PLAN AND THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE SEPARATED FROM THE EXISTING MXD TO THE WE TO THE SOUTH. OKAY. AND THAT DOES THEN ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT THE SITE PLAN IS REQUIRED AT THE TIME OF REZONING? CORRECT. AH, OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. EXCELLENT. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS LEFT? YES, COMMISSIONER? WHAT'S IT, YOU'RE DOING IT, YOU'RE DOING IT. YOU'RE DOING IT? OH NO, THAT'S THAT. NO. OH, I'M SORRY. I DON'T THINK IT'LL CLEAR IT UP. . ALRIGHT, THAT'S FAIR. ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER LO, YOU'RE GONNA CLOSE US OUT ON QUESTIONS, OKAY? OKAY. I WANTED TO INVITE, UM, I GUESS EITHER THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOLKS MISS MOST EITHER OF Y'ALL. I'M, I'M JUST HAVING HEARD THAT THERE IS SOME APPETITE FROM THE DEVELOPER ABOUT SOME CONDITIONS AS OUR CHAIR MENTIONED. UM, AND I WILL HAVE Y'ALL UP HERE AND THEN HAVE STAFF HOPEFULLY RUN THROUGH SOME OF THE OPTIONS, BUT I JUST WANTED TO OFFER TO Y'ALL WHAT, UH, WHAT IF THERE ARE SPECIFIC CONDITIONS THAT WOULD BE PLACED ON THE C TWO ZONING THAT WOULD FEEL ACCEPTABLE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD ONTO THE C3 ZONING OR C TWO C TWO OKAY. C TWO, WHICH WE CAN HAVE THEM STAFF THINGS. STAFF WELL, OKAY. SO INITIALLY AND STAFF, I CAN EITHER HAND THIS OVER TO YOU OR I CAN DO IT, BUT YOU KNOW, THE C THE CONDITIONS WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED UNDER A CONDITIONAL USE OR A SPECIFIC USE. UH, NEITHER ONE OF WHICH WE CURRENTLY HAVE BEFORE US. WHAT THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY REQUIRE, AND THERE IS SOME CONSIDERATION, WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, TO PULL DOWN A SPECIFIC USE INTO LIKE A C ONE, WHICH WOULD LIMIT THINGS TO 5,000 SQUARE FEET TOTAL AND ALLOW YOU TO HAVE AN ENFORCEABLE SITE PLAN WITH THE CONDITIONS. BUT THIS WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THAN DOING THIS, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT, YEAH, LOGAN. YEAH, I MEAN, YOU, YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A STAB AT WHAT AT ONE DAY MAY BE TO APPLY THOSE CONDITIONS TO, SO I'M STILL GONNA LET YOU FINISH YOUR QUESTIONS, BUT WHICH MIGHT BE THE BETTER CONSIDERATION FOR Y'ALL TO POTENTIALLY POSTPONE THIS OR BE WILLING, I THINK LIKELY TO GO FORWARD WITH A RECOMMENDATION OF DENIAL TO THE CITY COUNCIL. BUT THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL AT SOME POINT NOW. COMMISSIONER MELISSA, BACK TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. WELL, I ASKED THE QUESTION BECAUSE THAT WASN'T ON THE TABLE AT THE START FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD FROM THE DEVELOPER AND FROM MEETING WITH NEIGHBORHOOD FOLKS. SO NOW THAT IT IS ON THE TABLE, I WANTED TO EXPLORE IT, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT COMPLEXITY. [01:20:02] I'M NOT GONNA MAKE Y'ALL SIT THROUGH IT. I THINK I GOT IT. SO NEVERMIND. UNLESS YOU WANNA ADD SOMETHING. YEAH, GO AHEAD. SO, SO YEAH, UM, I'M GONNA ADDRESS THE MXD, WHICH REALLY KIND OF IS SORT OF THE WHOLE MULTIPLE AND Y MAKES IT SO MUCH OF A PROBLEM. SO IF, IF THIS GOES THROUGH AND THEY MAKE THIS, UM, A C TWO, SO THEY CHANGE THE MP 10 TO C TWO. SO WHAT I ENVISION IS PROBABLY GONNA HAPPEN IS, IS THAT, SO THE APPLICANT'S GONNA SELL IT TO SOMEONE. NOW THERE'S AREAS THEY CAN BUILD MULTIPLE BUSINESSES. IT, IT'S NOT JUST GONNA BE ONE BUSINESS, IT'S GONNA BE MULTIPLE. AND THEY COULD BUILD BUSINESSES WITH A STOREFRONT ON VASQUEZ ROAD, WHICH IS KIND OF THE PART THAT REALLY BOTHERS ME THE MOST. THE NP, THE, THE, THE PART BEHIND, IF THAT'S ALL COMMERCIAL, NOT REALLY THE PROBLEM. IT'S THE RIGHT THERE ON VASQUEZ. AND THE, THE ENTRANCE IS AN EXITS. SO I AM SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF. I'M OUT OF TIME. YEAH, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A MINUTE AND A HALF. OKAY. 'CAUSE I ATE SOME OF YOUR TIME. OKAY. AND I'LL, IF YOU COULD WRAP UP IN THE NEXT FEW SO WE COULD HEAR FROM THE PEOPLE AS WELL. SO, SO BASICALLY, UM, THE MP, UM, SINCE THEY DIDN'T MAKE A SITE PLAN WHEN THEY MADE THAT MXD AND THE APPLICANT IS NOW GOING TO SELL IT, WELL THEY'RE GONNA INCORPORATE IT IN, THEY'RE GONNA USE IT AS A C TWO BECAUSE THEN THEY HAVE C TWO ALL THE WAY STRAIGHT THROUGH AND IT'LL BE ALLOWED. AND WHAT I WAS TOLD IS THAT THERE WON'T BE ANY REASON TO QUESTION AS LONG AS IT'S ALL C TWO, IT'S JUST GONNA GET APPROVED. THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A QUESTION OF IS IT OKAY OR NOT. SO, SO THERE'S WHERE THE REAL PROBLEM REALLY COMES FROM. THANK YOU. YEAH, YOU HAVE ONE MINUTE. I HAVE ONE MINUTE. YOU GOT IT. ALL I'VE GOT IS JUST IN LISTENING TO THE THINGS THAT CAME UP BETWEEN THE STAFF AND THE CONVERSATION THAT GAVE ME SOME ENLIGHTENMENT. WHAT I'M SEEING IS THAT ONE IN 2017 WHEN THE ANNEXATION HAPPENED, THE PROPERTY, THE ZONING WAS NOT APPROPRIATELY CONDUCTED. OKAY? THERE WAS NO ZONING THAT WENT IN, THERE WAS NO ZONING PLAN. SO WHY IS THAT STILL STANDING APPROPRIATELY? AND THEN NOW WHY SHOULD THIS ENTIRE THING LET REST UPON SOMETHING THAT WAS INAPPROPRIATELY OR INADEQUATELY, UH, COMPLETED IN 2017? WHY SHOULD THAT AFFECT THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY 17 YEARS LATER WHEN THEY KNEW ABOUT IT IN 2009? DIDN'T DO ANYTHING IN THE INTERIM AT ANY OF THESE POINTS UNTIL THIS YEAR, 2026. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE. THANK YOU. GREAT USE OF TIME. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY. GOOD NEWS. UH, THAT IS THE END OF OUR PUBLIC HEARING FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE. UM, COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND POTENTIAL MOTION. OKAY. THANK YOU ALL FOR GOING ON THAT FUN JOURNEY, LEARNING ABOUT THINGS. UM, I FEEL LIKE THIS COMMISSION KNOWS THAT THIS IS NOT TOTALLY INFREQUENT THAT WE HAVE THESE WEIRD PARCELS OR LIKE COMBOO PARCELS THAT ARE VERY BIZARRELY ZONED AND A PATCHWORK OF ZONING. UM, I DO APPRECIATE HEARING SOME FLEXIBILITY FROM THE DEVELOPER AND THE, UM, THE REPRESENTATIVE. I, I DID HEAR VERY LITTLE OF THAT PREVIOUSLY. OBVIOUSLY NOT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD HAS BEEN TO ALL THE MEETINGS OR CORRESPONDED WITH NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION OR TALKED WITH YOU GUYS, BUT I HAD PREVIOUSLY SEEN VERY LITTLE FLEXIBILITY, WHICH IS VERY DIFFICULT AS FOLKS KNOW FOR D TWO, WE REALLY VALUE THAT NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT. AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE ARE IMPACTED MOST. I THINK THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF A TRICKY SITUATION JUST BECAUSE IT'S ON A PROPOSED PLAN. IT'S, YOU ALL HAVE COMMUNICATED YOU WANNA SELL THE LOT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW, THE LOT WAS PURCHASED 20 YEARS AGO, 2009, ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO WITH THIS ZONING. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS A CHOICE YOU ALL MADE. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT LIKE, IS NOT REALLY ON US AS ZONING COMMISSION TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT. AND IT ALSO MAKES IT VERY HARD TO OFFER REZONING WHEN THERE'S NO PROPOSED PROJECT AND WE CAN'T DECIDE THE IMPACT OR EVEN LIKE, CONSIDER THE IMPACT ON THE PEOPLE IN THE AREA. UM, I HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS, BUT I FEEL LIKE THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN KIND OF COVERED. I JUST, I HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME ESSENTIALLY APPROVING A ZONING THAT IS TO MAKE IT AN A MORE EASILY SELLABLE LOT TO HELP WITHOUT ANY CLEAR INDICATION OF WHAT IT DOES FOR THE COMMUNITY. AND THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL HARM THAT COULD COME FROM A C TWO DESIGNATION OR INTENSE USES IN THAT AREA. SO I, UM, I'M GONNA MOTION TO DENY THIS. YEAH. MOTION TO DENY THIS, UH, REQUEST. ALRIGHT, I'LL SECOND IT. MOTION FOR DENIAL FROM COMMISSIONER LO WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. RIGHT? OR WAS IT, SORRY, PETE RODRIGUEZ, EXCUSE ME. UM, BOTH RESPOND. I SAW YOU BOTH LEAN FORWARD AND IT WAS OUTTA MY PERIPHERAL. UH, ALRIGHT, UM, DISCUSSION, UH, TO MY LEFT. YES. COMMISSIONER DVE. THE, UH, NP IS NEIGHBORHOOD PROTECTION. UM, [01:25:01] I ZONING IS IMPORTANT. IT'S REAL. IT GIVES A SIGNAL TO POTENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS WHETHER OR NOT THEY LOOK AT THE ZONING BEFORE THEY BUY THEIR PROPERTY, UM, THAT THAT AREA IS GONNA BE PROTECTED TO DECREASE DENSITY. UM, THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S A REAL PROBLEM. UM, THE APPLICANT OR, UH, UH, YEP, THE PROPERTY OWNER INDICATED THAT IT WAS HOWEVER, UH, A MISTAKE, RIGHT? THAT IT WAS LEFT AS NP KIND OF AS A AUTOMATIC RESULT, RIGHT? STAFF MENTIONED CITY STAFF NEVER AT ANY TIME SAID, HEY, THIS LAND REALLY OUGHT TO BE NP. UM, I THINK IT'S ON US TO DO THE ANALYSIS OF IS NP AN APPROPRIATE ZONING FOR THIS AREA? UH, THE ANSWER IS, SHOULD BE UNEQUIVOCALLY. NO, IT SHOULDN'T BE NP WITH C TWO ON ONE SIDE AND, AND, YOU KNOW, UH, MXD ON THE OTHER SIDE, IT'S NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS TO BE, YOU KNOW, LARGE, UH, YOU KNOW, LARGE LOT PROPERTIES THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE OUTCOME. UM, HOWEVER, IT'S DIFFICULT AS COMMISSIONER LO SAID, TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD ZONING FOR THAT PROPERTY WITHOUT A, A PLAN IN FRONT OF US. UH, MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING LIKE C ONE, MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING LIKE C TWO WITH ADDITIONAL, YOU KNOW, BUFFERING FROM THOSE PROPERTIES ON VASQUEZ. UM, BUT I THINK IT IS DIFFICULT TO, TO GO ALL THE WAY TO C TWO, UM, WITHOUT SOME KIND OF PLAN. UM, SO WITH THAT, I, I WILL BE SUPPORTING, UH, THE MOTION, BUT HOPEFULLY IN THE FUTURE, UH, YOU KNOW, AN APPLICATION COULD COME FORWARD WITH, YOU KNOW, MORE OF A SPECIFIC PLAN. MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE C ONE WITH BUFFERING FROM THE PROPERTIES ON VASQUEZ. UH, THAT WOULD BE A LOT EASIER TO BE ABLE TO, UH, COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. DISCUSSION TO MY LEFT. COMMISSIONER ETT AND THEN SIPES. I'M STILL DECIDING ON WHAT I'M GONNA DO, BUT I, I DO THINK THAT SOMEHOW THE MXD AND THE NP 10 AND THE C TWO OUGHT ALL BE LOOKED AT AS A SINGLE UH, DEAL. WORKED OUT IN SOME TRADE OUTS DONE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT'S NOT A SPLIT ZONING AND IT'S ALL CONSISTENT. BUT, UM, THAT'S COMMISSIONER KELLY THEN. COMMISSIONER SIPES. I'M SORRY, I'M GONNA END END WITH YOU ON THIS SIDE. COMMISSIONER SIPES , UH, I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER WHIT'S COMMENTS. IT IS TROUBLING TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S A REASONABLE SOLUTION HERE. UH, SO I'M KIND OF TORN MYSELF ON THIS. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SIPES. ALL RIGHT. SO, UM, WHEN I FIRST LOOKED AT THIS, I SAID, WELL, OF COURSE IT MAKES SENSE TO CHANGE THE MP 10 TO C TWO BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY GOT MXD, WHICH ALLOWS C TWO USES. AND THEN IN THE, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NEIGHBOR'S NAME IF IT'S MS. MOST OR POST, SO I APOLOGIZE MOST, MOST, OKAY. AND THEN SHE SAYS, WELL IF YOU, IF IF IT'S REZONED C TWO, THEN IT WILL ALL BE TREATED AS ONE SINGULAR PARCEL FOR COMMERCIAL AND YOU, AND RATHER THAN THE, THE MIXED DEVELOPMENT THAT IT ORIGINALLY WAS INTENDED FOR AND YOU'LL HAVE ACCESS ONTO. AND I'M LIKE, THAT'S FOR ME, THAT MADE SO MUCH SENSE. SO THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT. 'CAUSE I LEARNED SOMETHING NEW EVERY SINGLE MEETING. UM, SO I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SIPES TO MY RIGHT. COMMISSIONER, UH, LET'S GO. HENA. HOSA, AND THEN PANA. YEP. THANK YOU CHAIR. I'M END WITH YOU. UH, I'LL BE, UH, SUPPORTING THE, THE MOTION AS WELL. AND JUST REMEMBER, WE'RE RECOMMENDING BODY TO CITY COUNCIL, SO BOTH SIDES. MAKE SURE YOU, YOU, UH, PREPARE YOURSELF AND FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, WHILE YOU'RE THERE AT DISTRICT TWO, TALKING TO THEM, MAKE SURE WE GET WITH REGISTERING YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. FOR ME, THAT THROWS A LITTLE BIT MORE WEIGHT. UM, BUT I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS FOR BEING HERE. UM, AGAIN, NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION. IS THAT THE MP? IS THAT WHAT THAT STANDS FOR? I MEAN, I, IT WAS THERE FOR A REASON AND I KNOW WE'RE TRYING TO SELL IT NOW AND THERE'S I 10 AND THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, I, I GET IT, I GET BOTH SIDES. HOWEVER, I JUST BELIEVE THAT, UM, AT THIS TIME IT JUST, IT JUST, IT JUST, WE NEED TO CROSS MORE I'S AND DOT SOME T'S OR DID I SAY THAT BACKWARDS? BUT, UH, BUT ANYWAY, WE'RE NOT AI THAT'S LATER TODAY, RIGHT? BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HUMANS AND WE LOOK AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK THAT'S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. I THINK ON THE OUTCAST ON THIS ONE, I JUST, THIS IS ALMOST A NO BRAINER FOR ME. THIS IS ONE OF THE BUSIEST, FASTEST GROWING CORRIDORS IN THE CITY AND IN THE REGION. UM, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT GOING TO C3. YOU HAVE A SCHOOL GOING UP THAT ONLY INCREASES THE VALUE OF YOUR REAL ESTATE. I'VE NEVER SEEN REAL ESTATE VALUE DECREASE WHEN YOU HAVE A SCHOOL GOING UP NEARBY. UM, WE'RE A LONG WAY FROM 1986, [01:30:01] I 10, AND 16 0 4 19 86 WERE DIRT ROADS, SO I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. IT IT WASN'T THAT BAD. UM, I MEAN, MODEL T'S WEREN'T ROAMING THE WEST . UM, BUT ANY EVENT, UM, I AM NOT GONNA BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. UM, AND, AND THE REASON IS, IS BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE MORE CREATIVE SOLUTIONS THAT WE COULD DO, UH, TO ADDRESS THE NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS. LIKE I SAID, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE BIG NEIGHBORHOOD CONCERNS WERE VASQUEZ, NOT VASQUEZ, VASQUEZ, UM, ROAD. AND YET THOUGH DRIVE, AND WE COULD ADDRESS THOSE THROUGH AN APPROPRIATE SITE PLAN. UH, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE ABLE TO GET ONE THROUGH SOME CONDITIONAL ZONING, UM, WHICH I, I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY DO. UH, IT MIGHT BE BETTER JUST TO WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE A BUYER. UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THIS MAY OR MAY NOT HELP YOU, UH, IN THAT PROCESS, BUT, YOU KNOW, I, I CERTAINLY FEEL STRONGLY THAT, YOU KNOW, AS SOMEONE WHO REPRESENTS A DISTRICT THAT IS LARGELY WITHIN THE ORIGINAL 36 MILES, SQUARE MILES OF SAN ANTONIO, WE SEE ALL NUMBER OF ARTIFACTS WHERE ZONING WAS ONE THING AT ONE TIME, THEN CONVERTED, THEN CONVERTED AGAIN, AND WE END UP FAR AFIELD FROM WHAT IS AS A MATTER OF LAND USE APPROPRIATE. UH, AND IN THIS CASE, IT, IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. THE NP 10 WAS NOT APPROPRIATE IN MY MIND AT THE TIME THAT IT WAS CONVERTED, BUT THAT CONVERSION WAS, YOU KNOW, A MATTER OF COURSE. AND SO I'M, I'M ALMOST ENTIRELY IN COMMISSIONER PAN'S CA CAMP, BUT I CANNOT SUPPORT THIS MOTION AT THIS TIME. I THINK THERE'S SOME STUFF WE COULD DO. ALRIGHT, THE MOTION IS FOR DENIAL BY COMMISSIONER LOAF WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. ROLL CALL, VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER LO? YES. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. YES. COMMISSIONER NOOSA. YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? NO. COMMISSIONER VO AYE. COMMISSIONER, WHAT'S UP? NO. COMMISSIONER PANNA. NO CHAIR BUSANTE. NO MOTION FAILS. ALRIGHT. THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION. ANYONE WHO VOTED NO MAY MAKE THE MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION. ALRIGHT. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. ALRIGHT. THERE IS A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION BY COMMISSIONER PANA WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WHITSETT. ROLL CALL. VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER PANA? YES. COMMISSIONER WOODSON? YES. COMMISSIONER LO? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER PEDRO RODRIGUEZ? YES. COMMISSIONER HUI. I'M SORRY. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER VO. AYE. CHAIR BUS? NO. MOTION CARRIES . AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THEY COULD HAVE HAD THE OPTION TO GO TO CITY COUNCIL WITH DENIAL OR COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS AND FIGURE THIS OUT. ALRIGHT. UM, THAT BEING SAID, THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR A MOTION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. ALRIGHT. THERE'S A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. IS THERE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER WHITSETT IS THE SECOND, UH, DISCUSSION TO MY LEFT. YES. COMMISSIONER DOLE? UH, THE MP 10, EVEN IF IT WAS A MISTAKE, IT IS THERE. UM, I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME THOUGHT PUT INTO MAYBE ADDITIONAL BUFFERING TO THE MXD OR EVEN CONSIDERING, UH, EXPANDING THE MXD TO MAKE IT ALL MASTER PLANNED. UM, SO I'LL BE UP NOT SUPPORTING THE MOTION. ALL RIGHT, VERY GOOD. LEFT DISCUSSION? YES. NO, WE'RE GONNA END WITH YOU, RIGHT? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA. THANK YOU. CHAIR. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT FOR AN NA I WAS GONNA ASK, IS THIS FOR APPROVAL OF THE AMENDMENT OR, YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. ALRIGHT, SO IT IT, DO YOU ACCEPT THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT? YES. OKAY. DO YOU ACCEPT THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT? ALRIGHT, SO NOW EFFECTIVELY THIS IS A MOTION FOR APPROVAL AS AMENDED BECAUSE THAT HAD THE NA ON IT. ALRIGHT? OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? NO. COMMISSIONER PA DISCUSSION? NO, YOU'VE ALREADY MADE YOUR MOTION. COMMISSIONER LO YOU'LL CLOSE US OUT ON THIS ROUND. UM, YEAH, I'M GONNA, WELL, I'M NOT GONNA SUPPORT APPROVAL BECAUSE I WOULD LEAN TOWARDS A CONTINUANCE. WE CAN DISCUSS MORE. I WILL JUST OFFER SOMETHING I DIDN'T MENTION AT THE BEGINNING, WHICH IS THAT, [01:35:01] WAIT, WE'RE IN COMMENTS? YES. JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I CAN MAKE A COMMENT. UM, I APPRECIATE ALL THE OPINIONS ON THIS BOARD AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR. I DO WANNA OFFER THESE MEETINGS AND THESE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND THESE DEVELOPERS AND THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN IN THIS DISTRICT ARE ALWAYS OPEN TO ALL DEVELOPERS. SORRY, NOT DEVELOPERS, ALL COMMISSIONERS. TRULY THEY'RE OPEN TO DEVELOPERS TOO. UM, AND I CAN APPRECIATE YOU ALL HAVING YOUR OPINIONS, BUT I DO WANNA INVITE YOU TO JOIN THOSE MEETINGS, JOIN THOSE DISCUSSIONS, AND ENGAGE A BIT MORE BEFORE THESE CASES COME TO OUR DAAS OUR BOARD, BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE CONVERSATIONS HAPPEN AND THE FOLKS WHO LIVE THERE AND THE DEVELOPERS WHO ARE OPERATING IN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS, IN THOSE DISTRICTS IN OUR DISTRICT TOO, HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE AND SPECIFIC THINGS TO ADD. I WANT A MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE AND I, I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION. I WILL HOPE TO GET A CONTINUANCE BECAUSE OF THIS REASON. AND I DO INVITE YOU ALL TO JOIN THOSE CONVERSATIONS. THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IN PARTICULAR HAS ALREADY HAD A LOT OF ISSUES AROUND DEVELOPMENT THAT WASN'T NECESSARILY, THEY DIDN'T GET BUY-IN FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAS TO LIVE NEXT TO THAT DEVELOPMENT THAT DIDN'T GET THEIR APPROVAL OR THEIR SUPPORT. AND THAT'S ALREADY SOMETHING THAT THE DISTRICT TWO OFFICE AND THE DISTRICT TWO COMMUNITY HAS HAD TO LIKE REBUILD THE TRUST AROUND. I UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE NOT FIXING ALL OF TRUST RELATIONSHIPS WITH THIS CASE. JUST WANNA OFFER SOME HISTORICAL CONTEXT FOR THIS NEW ROAD SPECIFICALLY, UM, AND OFFER THAT YOU GUYS ALL CAN CONSIDER THAT WHEN WE, WE MAKE A MOTION. SO I WILL NOT SUPPORT THIS MOTION AND WILL HOPE TO CONTINUE, BUT, UM, TAKE THAT AS YOU WILL. ALRIGHT. POINT OF ORDER YES. IS A MOTION TO CONTINUE SUBSIDIARY MOTION PRIVILEGED OVER THE MAIN MOTION. IT IS NOT AT THIS POINT. THE MOTION HAS BEEN SECONDED AND THE MOTION FOR, UH, APPROVAL TAKES PRECEDENCE AND MUST BE, UH, DETERMINED FIRST. ALRIGHT, UM, BRIEFLY, I WELCOME ALL THE COMMISSIONERS TO ACCEPT COMMISSIONER LO'S, UM, INVITATION, UH, FOR THIS CASE IN THE FUTURE. JUST WATCH OUT FOR QUORUM ISSUES. UH, ALRIGHT. THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER ONE AS AMENDED BY COMMISSIONER PENA WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WIT ROLL CALL VOTE. COMMISSIONER PANNA? YES. COMMISSIONER WHITSETT? YES. COMMISSIONER LO? NO. COMMISSIONER OSA? NO. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ? NO. COMMISSIONER SIPES? NO. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER VILLE. NAY. CHAIR BUS. SAMANTHA? NO. MOTION FAILS. ALRIGHT. I WILL REMIND YOU THAT A CONTINUANCE IS AUTOMATIC AND THE APPLICANT GETS TO PICK WHETHER OR NOT THEY GO FORWARD WITH THE DENIAL. IF THERE IS NO SUCCESSFUL MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION. NEVERTHELESS, NUDGE, NUDGE, WINK, WINK. UH, THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION IF YOU VOTED NO ON THE PREVIOUS MOTION. I HAVE A QUICK POINT OF ORDER. YES. ON THE ORIGINAL VOTE, NOT THE RECONSIDERATION. THE FIRST ONE. MM-HMM . I COUNTED FIVE, FOUR. YES, BUT WE FAILED. THAT'S CORRECT. IS SIX IS THE REQUIRED NUMBER. GOTCHA. BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE EVERYONE HERE. OKAY. EVERYONE. NOPE. SIX IS ALWAYS THE REQUIRED NUMBER. I GUESS I'M REALIZING BECAUSE WE HAD FOUR AGAINST THAT DIDN'T MEAN SIX FOUR. YEAH, CORRECT, BECAUSE WE OH YES. GOTCHA. YES, I UNDERSTAND THE SIX. IT'S OKAY. I JUMPED THE GUN. ALRIGHT, THE MOTION, SORRY. THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION IF YOU VOTED NO ON THE PREVIOUS MOTION. GOING ONCE, GOING TWICE, GOING THREE TIMES. UH, MR. JARAMILLO, MR. GUEST, YOU HAVE, UH, A CHOICE TO MAKE. YOU CAN COME BACK IN TWO WEEKS. YOU CAN CHOOSE TO GO FORWARD WITH, UH, RECOMMENDATION OF DENIAL TO CITY COUNCIL. BUT THOSE ARE YOUR OPTIONS. YOU HAVE A THIRD OPTION, WHICH IS YOU CAN POSTPONE OR WITHDRAW THIS CASE AND COME BACK WHEN, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING. ALRIGHT? BUT TALK TO YOUR CASE MANAGER, MS. ANA. UH, AND THAT IS IT. GOOD LUCK TO YOU. WE'RE MOVING ON TO ITEM NUMBER TWO, MR. CHAIR. YES. CAN I REQUEST A, UH, BREAK? UM, NO. I WANT TO KEEP PUSHING TILL THREE, THREE'S OUR TYPICAL TIME, BUT YOU CAN, YOU CAN STEP OUT FOR A SECOND. ABSOLUTELY. I'M, I'M GONNA, WE'RE GONNA GET THROUGH THE NEXT ONE. WE'RE, WE'RE A LITTLE BIT BEHIND EVEN WHERE I WANTED. UM, SO HERE WE'RE, OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. ALEXA RATANA PLANNER WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. ITEM NUMBER TWO IS LOCATED AT 1 4 2 GAMBLER ROAD. GOING FROM C TWO COMMERCIAL DISTRICT TO IDZ THREE. HIGH INTENSITY INFIELD DEVELOPMENT ZONE DISTRICT WITH THESES PERMITTED FOR COMMERCIAL PARKING LOT ANIMAL AND PET SERVICES. OUTDOOR TRAINING, BOARDING RUNS, PENS OR PADDOCKS PERMITTED ENTERTAINMENT VENUE, [01:40:01] INDOOR AND OUTDOOR AND FARM EQUIPMENT CELLS, UH, SERVICE OR STORAGE WITH ALL OVERLAYS STAY IN THE SAME 43 NOTICES WERE MAILED. ONE IN FAVOR, ZERO OPPOSED. UNITED HOMEOWNERS IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION IS IN FAVOR. THE EXISTING C TWO IS AN APPROPRIATE ZONING FOR THE PROPERTY AND SURROUNDING AREA. THE PROPOSED IDZ THREE IS NOT THE PROPOSED USES APART FROM THE COMMERCIAL PARKING LOT ARE ONLY PERMITTED BY RIGHT IN INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICTS AND WOULD BE CHARACTERIZED AS INDUSTRIAL USES. GIVEN THE SUBJECT PROPERTY'S PROXIMITY TO AN EXISTING RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, THE ALLOWANCE OF THESE INDUSTRIAL USES WOULD NOT BE SUITABLE. THIS IS ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE BASE ZONE OF IDZ THREE, WHICH WOULD WAIVE ANY POTENTIAL BUFFERING STANDARDS. THE CURRENT COMMERCIAL ZONING DESIGNATION ACTS AS A TRANSITIONAL DISTRICT BETWEEN THE INDUSTRIAL USES TO THE WEST AND THE RESIDENTIAL USES TO THE EAST PERMITTING. THE REQUESTED ZONING DISTRICT FOR INDUSTRIAL USES WOULD ELIMINATE THIS TRANSITION RESULTING IN INDUSTRIAL ENCROACHMENT INTO THE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. STAFF RECOMMENDS DENIAL PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDS APPROVAL AND THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE IS HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AND AMEND THEIR SITE PLAN. ALL RIGHT, IF WE COULD HAVE THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE, PLEASE AND I WILL SIMPLY POINT OUT THAT WE DO NOT HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS. SO, UH, EFFICIENCY IS PRIZED. HELLO COMMISSIONERS. VANESSA ZER, BROWN MCDONALD HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT. UH, AS YOU'RE AWARE, THIS PROPERTY IS AT 1 42 GAMBLER ROAD. OH, I'M, I'M IN CHARGE OF THIS. OH, OKAY. OH, THERE WE GO. SITE LOCATION NEAR FROST BANK CENTER DRIVE IN DISTRICT TWO. OUR ZONING REQUEST, UH, WAS INITIALLY, I WILL TELL YOU, WAS FOR AN INDUSTRIAL USE. UH, THIS PROPERTY WAS PART OF THE LARGE AREA REZONING DONE LAST YEAR AND IT WAS INDUSTRIAL BEFORE THAT. AND THEN THAT LARGE AREA REZONING BROUGHT IT DOWN TO C TWO AND WE SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION FOR AN INDUSTRIAL USE. HOWEVER, IN TALKING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND CITY STAFF, UH, WE DID DECIDE TO SPECIFY THE FUTURE USES AND TAKE OUT THE INDUSTRIAL BASE DISTRICT, WHICH IS WHY YOU HAVE THE REQUESTED ZONING OF IDZ THREE WITH ALL THOSE LISTED USES RIGHT THERE. IT DID NEED A PLAN AMENDMENT. I COULD HAVE UPDATED THE SLIDE TITLE A LITTLE BIT. WE DID GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION AS YOU KNOW, THIS, UH, CASE WAS CONTINUED. SO IN THE INTERIM WE DID HAVE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THEY DID RECOMMEND APPROVAL AT THE TIME. THIS IS THE SITE PLAN. IT IS THE AMENDED SITE PLAN. UH, THIS SITE PLAN INCLUDES A 25 FOOT BUFFER ON THE BOUNDARY THAT IS ADJACENT TO THE RESIDENTIAL USES. THIS IS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY TODAY. IT IS A PARKING LOT. IT HAS LIGHTING FOR PARKING AND ITS OVERFLOW PARKING FOR EVENTS. THIS IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT, UH, CURRENTLY HAS GRASS BUT IS INCLUDED WITHIN THE SITE. AND THIS IS A LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM UHIA. THANK YOU. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. THANK YOU SO MUCH. IS THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? NO. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. THIS IS A DISTRICT TWO CASE. AGAIN, COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. NO QUESTIONS, UH, TO MY LEFT QUESTIONS? YES. COMMISSIONER DOVE. UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THE, UH, APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE OR THE STAFF MIGHT BE BETTER QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION, BUT I'M GONNA JUST GONNA ASK IT. WE CAN SEE ACROSS THE STREET. UM, WHAT ARE THE PREVAILING USES IN THE AREA? MAYBE THE STAFF. WHAT, WHAT'S THE PREVAILING USES IN THE AREA? SO C TO B INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES, I BELIEVE. YES. UM, YOU'VE GOT A MIX OF INDUSTRIAL, BUT YOU'VE ALSO GOT, UM, SOME CDS CONDITIONAL USES THAT WERE ESTABLISHED DURING THE, UM, THE LARGE AREA REZONING. SO YOU, I THINK YOU HAD A LOT OF SMALLER WAREHOUSING, UH, TYPE OF USES. ALSO MAYBE SMALLER MANUFACTURING KIND OF USES. BUT THEN YOU DO HAVE SOME MUCH LARGER PROPERTIES THAT, UH, I BELIEVE THERE WAS, UM, AGAIN, A LOT OF STORAGE MANUFACTURING. I COULD NOT SAY SPECIFICALLY WHAT IS IN THERE. I GOT ON GOOGLE MAPS. I SEE LIKE PLASTIC FABRICATION, UH, PETROCHEMICAL TRANSPORT. UM, BUT YOU SAID A LOT OF THEM THOUGH ARE, UH, PERMITTED UNDER A CD? YEAH. SEE IF YOU SEE LIKE THE C TWO CDS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET THERE. RIGHT. A LOT OF THOSE, AGAIN, WERE CONDITIONAL USES FOR OF A SINGLE INDUSTRIAL USE. GOT IT. SO THOSE ARE CURRENTLY PERMITTED TO CONTINUE. CORRECT. THEY'RE NOT NON-CONFORMING? CORRECT. OKAY. UM, THE, THE DISTINCTION BEING IS, IS THAT THE CURRENT ZONING ACCOMMODATES THOSE USES TO CONTINUE INDEFINITELY INTO THE FUTURE? THAT IS CORRECT. AS LONG AS THEY DON'T CHANGE THEIR FOOTPRINT. UM, AND THEN THE, THE, UH, STAFF REPORT REFERRED TO THE AREA BEING PREDOMINANTLY RESIDENTIAL. WHERE'S THE CLOSEST RESIDENTIAL TO THE PROPERTY? [01:45:01] THE RESIDENTIAL IS ABUTTING TO THE EAST THERE. OKAY. UM, WAS THIS THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT SUBMITTED THE LETTER OF SUPPORT? THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION? YES. THAT, UH, THERE, 'CAUSE THERE'S THIS RESIDENTIAL AREA, BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO A LARGE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD JUST, UM, A FEW BLOCKS NORTH AND YES, THE, UM, OH GOODNESS, WHAT IS THEIR NAME? THE, UH, UNITED HOMEOWNERS IMPROVEMENT ASSOCIATION DID, UH, WRITE IN THEIR SUPPORT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, QUESTIONS TO THE LEFT. YOU COMMISSIONER ONE, UH, FOR THE APPLICANT, UM, EITHER, EITHER ONE OF YOU. SO IN THE, IN 2025 WHEN THE PROPERTY WAS DOWN ZONED, Y'ALL DID NOT ARGUE AGAINST IT. UH, THEY ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN. UH, WHY DID THEY DO THAT WHEN YOU KNEW YOU WERE GONNA HAVE THESE USES? AND SO AT THE TIME THE USES WERE UNCLEAR AND TO BE FAIR, WE DID TRY TO SNEAK IN THERE, NOT SNEAK IN THERE, BUT WE DID TRY TO GET IN THERE AND PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA. BUT TO BE FAIR, STAFF HAD ALREADY MADE A PLAN AND WE WERE A LITTLE TOO LATE AT THAT TIME ON THAT. ON THE DOWN ZONE THING? YES. OKAY. COMMISSIONER CAROLINE MCDONALD WITH BROWN MCDONALD, JUST WANT TO ADD SOME COLOR TO THAT. UM, THE DOWN ZONING OR THE LARGE AREA REZONING WAS APPROVED BEFORE THE BOND WENT TO ELECTION. AND SO WITH THE, I DON'T WANNA SAY, I GUESS THE NEW PROPOSAL, IT OPENED UP SOME USES FOR THE RODEO AND SO THIS PROPERTY IS OWNED BY THE RODEO AND SO THAT IS THE INTENTION OF THE REZONING HERE. ALL RIGHT. UH, I'M GLAD TO SEE THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN SUPPORT OF THIS. QUESTIONS LEFT QUESTION'S RIGHT? YES. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA, UH, TWO QUESTIONS. ONE FOR STAFF, THE NEIGHBOR ASSOCIATION. CAN YOU PUT THAT BACK UP? I THINK THERE WAS A SLIDE ON THERE. IS THAT, UH, WAS THE PRESIDENT, MS. ALI? UH, IT IS MS. ALI. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. AND THEN THE SECOND QUESTION WAS, UH, FOR THE APPLICANT, MAYBE I MISSED THIS, UH, DOESN'T MATTER. UH, SO THE SAN ANTONIO, UM, STOCK, SHE AND RODEO, I GUESS THE FISH NIGHT, WHAT ARE THEY GONNA USE UTILIZE THIS, UH, THIS UH, LOT FOR THE, THE END GOAL? WELL, THE END GOAL IS TO PERHAPS HAVE FARM EQUIPMENT STORAGE ON THERE AND MAYBE HAVE ANIMAL RUNS, UM, AND MAYBE KEEP THE PARKING, IT'S STILL AN EVENT AND OVERFLOW PARKING AND THEY WILL USE THAT IN THE, IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE. STILL THEY USE IT CURRENTLY FOR PARKING RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT IS THE END GOAL, TO EXPAND THE RODEO OPERATIONS. AS YOU KNOW, WITH THE BOND IT WAS TO EXPAND RODEO OPERATIONS YEAR ROUND. AND SO THAT IS THE GOAL TO INCORPORATE THIS PROPERTY WITH THOSE USES. GOTCHA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT. QUESTIONS. RIGHT. ALRIGHT, MS. LEAL, UH, WHAT TIME DID COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ LEAVE COMM COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ LEFT AT 2:39 PM AND HE RETURNED INTO THE BOARDROOM AT 2:45 PM AWESOME. THANK YOU SO MUCH. LET THE RECORD SO REFLECT. UM, ALRIGHT, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. UM, I'M NOT GONNA ALLOW ANY MORE QUESTIONS EITHER. UH, MS. COMMISSIONER LOS TO YOU FOR DISCUSSION AND POTENTIAL MOTION? YEAH, THANKS SO MUCH, . OKAY. I APPRECIATE IT. OH NO. OKAY. NO, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A TON ON THIS CASE 'CAUSE IT'S REALLY STRAIGHTFORWARD. UM, TO BE HONEST, YOU ALL GOT THE NEIGHBORHOOD SUPPORT AND THAT'S WHAT MATTERS MOST FOR US. UM, WE APPRECIATE THAT AND I AM EXCITED TO SUPPORT THE MOTION. SORRY. MOTION FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. AWESOME. ALRIGHT. THERE'S A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO BY COMMISSIONER LOOSA WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA DISCUSSION LEFT? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES, WOULD THAT BE WITH THE AMENDING SITE PLAN WITH THE, I'M SORRY, CLAR POINT OF CLARIFICATION? YES, CORRECT. WITH YES, YES, YES. OKAY. SO THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO WITH THE AMENDED SITE PLAN. AND THAT'S A GREAT POINT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? LEFT DISCUSSION. RIGHT. ALRIGHT. AGAIN, THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL OF ITEM NUMBER TWO WITH THE AMENDED SITE PLAN BY COMMISSIONER SSO WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA ROLL CALL VOTE. COMMISSIONER SSO? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER IL AYE. COMMISSIONER WIT? YES. COMMISSIONER PATA? YES. CHAIR BUSE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. ALRIGHT. TAKE THE BREAK OR NO? YEP. OKAY. LET'S TAKE APPROXIMATELY A SEVEN MINUTE BREAK, WHICH WILL BE 10. UH, BUT AT THIS TIME, IT TIME IS 2 49 AND WE ARE IN RECESS FOR A SHORT BREAK. THANK YOU. THE TIME IS 2 58 AND THIS MEETING [01:50:01] OF THE ZONING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS BACK IN SESSION. WE WILL CONTINUE WITH ITEM NUMBER FOUR. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. JOEL VELA, PLANNING COORDINATOR WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. ITEM FOUR IS LOCATED AT 34 60 MARTIN LUTHER KING DRIVE. UH, THIS IS A REQUEST FROM R FOUR RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY DISTRICT TO C TWO CD, UH, COMMERCIAL DISTRICT WITH A CONDITIONAL USE FOR MOTOR VEHICLE SALES. 38 NOTICES WERE MAILED. FIVE IN FAVOR. THREE OPPOSED. THE GREATER FAITH INSTITUTIONAL CHURCH COMMUNITY NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION, UH, IS IN FAVOR. OUTSIDE 200 FEET, WE RECEIVED 21 NOTICES IN FAVOR AND 101 OPPOSED. THE EXISTING R FOUR RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY DISTRICT IS AN APPROPRIATE, UH, ZONING FOR THE PROPERTY AND SURROUNDING AREA. THE PROPOSED C TWO COMMERCIAL DISTRICT IS ALSO APPROPRIATE, HOWEVER, THE REQUESTED CONDITIONAL USE AUTHORIZATION FOR A MOTOR VEHICLE SALES USE IS NOT THE STRETCH OF MARTIN LUTHER KING DRIVE BETWEEN I 10 EAST AND MARTIN LUTHER KING PARK IS CHARACTERIZED BY THE PREVALENCE OF EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USES, WHICH FRONT THIS SECONDARY SECONDARY ARTERIAL THOROUGHFARE. EXISTING NON-RESIDENTIAL USES IN THE AREA INCLUDE PROFESSIONAL OFFICE SPACE, CHURCHES, COMMUNITY CENTERS, A PUBLIC SCHOOL, AND A PUBLIC PARK. NEAR THE SUBJECT PROPERTY ARE NON-RESIDENTIAL USES, WHICH APPEAR TO BE OUT OF CONFORMANCE WITH THEIR RESPECTIVE ZONING DESIGNATIONS, INCLUDING A CONSTRUCTION TRADES CONTRACTOR FACILITY AND OUTDOOR STORAGE USES. THE PROPOSED MOTOR VEHICLE SALES USE IS A NON-RESIDENTIAL USE OF AN INTENSITY THAT IS NOT CURRENTLY PRESENT WITH WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY THROUGH ANY ESTABLISHED AND CONFORMING USE. ALTHOUGH ADDITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY HOME, ALTHOUGH AN ADDITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY HOME MAY NOT BE THE MOST APPROPRIATE USE FOR THIS PROPERTY. GIVEN THE ARTERIAL FUNCTION OF THE MARTIN LUTHER KING DRIVE, ALLOWING FOR A MOTOR VEHICLE SALES USE WOULD INTRODUCE A LEVEL OF HIGH INTENSITY COMMERCIAL ACTIVITY THAT IS NOT CURRENTLY CHARACTERISTIC OF THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY. STAFF RECOMMENDS NILE WITH AN ALTERNATE RECOMMENDATION OF C TWO COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND THE APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE IS PRESENT. OKAY. IF WE COULD HAVE THE APPLICANT OR APPLICANT'S REPRESENTATIVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. HELLO COMMISSIONERS. THANK YOU. UM, YES, NITA JOHNSON, THE OWNER OF MAR LUTHER KING, 34 60 MAR LUTHER KING. UM, I'M SORRY. HERE YOU COME NOW. UM, SO I DID, UM, REVISE MY PLAN. UM, I DID WIDEN THE ENTRYWAY FROM 12 FEET TO 24. I DID, UM, ADD EIGHT FOOT FENCES ON THE SIDE AND IN THE BACK. UM, I AM HAVING, UM, DIFFICULTY WITH SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS THAT DON'T WANT IT THERE. UM, I, WE HAVE SPOKEN, THEY SAID THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO DO FOR ME TO DOWNGRADE TO A C TWO. AND SO I DO, I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP GOING FOR MY CAR LOT, BUT I DON'T WANNA LOSE MY OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE IT A C TWO ALSO. SO I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE WHAT THE PANEL, UH, SUGGESTS FOR ME. THANK YOU. OKAY. THANK YOU MS. JOHNSON. MM-HMM . AND I THINK WE'LL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY, UM, WHEN EITHER QUESTIONS FROM COMMISSIONER LO OR ANOTHER COMMISSIONER HAPPENS, BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH. MM-HMM . DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT PLEASE? WE DO. UH, JOE A. ROGERS, HOWARD. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS JOE A. ROGERS HOWARD AND I LIVE AT 34 43 MARTIN LUTHER KING AND I OWN SEVERAL OTHER PROPERTIES SURROUNDING IT. I CAN'T GO ANY FURTHER AT ONE 50. I NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO YOU GUYS FIRST FOR MY EMOTIONAL BEHAVIOR FROM THE LAST MEETING. MY SOUL WON'T REST WITHOUT ME DOING THAT. AND I I DON'T WANNA EVER BE DISRESPECTFUL TO ANYONE. SO THAT'S NUMBER ONE. UM, WE ARE OPPOSING THE CAR LOT. WE FEEL THAT IT IS VERY INAPPROPRIATE FOR THAT AREA. WE CAN BARELY GET OUT OUR DRIVEWAYS RIGHT NOW. AND AS YOU KNOW, MARTIN LUTHER KING DOESN'T HAVE ANY SHOULDERS OR ANYTHING TO DRIVE ON. UM, WE ARE NOT OPPOSED TO MS. JOHNSON OPENING A BUSINESS AND WE WOULD [01:55:01] WELCOME HER TO DO A C TWO, BUT AS LONG AS SHE CAME TO THE COMMUNITY, SHE SPOKE WITH US. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE NEED, WHICH I JUST LEARNED LAST NIGHT, WE ALL NEED TO BE MINDFUL WHEN THEY DO REOPEN THE MARTIN LUTHER KING, UM, MIDDLE SCHOOL WELL SCHOOL, UM, THAT THEY ARE NOW COMBINING THREE ADDITIONAL ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS WITH THEM, GATES CARROLL IN MILLER. SO THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AT LEAST 750 CHILDREN AND THEY'RE ALSO GOING TO PUT A HEAD START CENTER THERE AS WELL. SO WE DEFINITELY NEED TO BE MINDFUL OF NOT ON EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS AND WE HAVE TO START WITH US. WE REALIZE THAT AS A COMMUNITY. BUT WE DO WANT MS. JOHNSON TO PLEASE COME AND SPEAK WITH US. LET US GET ON ONE ACCORD AND YES, I WANT HER TO BE SUCCESSFUL, BUT NOT AS CAR LOT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MS. ROGERS. HOWARD NEXT PLEASE. THAT'S IT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. ALRIGHT. AWESOME. ACTUALLY, MS. ROGERS, HOWARD, I MIGHT HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU A LITTLE BIT LATER. SO WHY DON'T YOU SIT UP FRONT. IT MIGHT BE EASIER, . IT'S UP TO YOU. I JUST . THANK YOU MA'AM. ALRIGHT. UH, MS. JOHNSON, WOULD YOU LIKE A LITTLE REBUTTAL? YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. OH YES I DO. SO, UM, I DID CONSIDER THE SCHOOL COMING ACROSS THE STREET. WELL, IT'S BEEN THERE FOREVER, BUT THEY'RE REBUILDING IT RIGHT NOW. UM, SO MY HOURS WOULD BE FROM NINE TO SIX. UM, THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT, UH, TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT. I DID, I KNEW, I KNOW THAT, UM, CARLA USUALLY DON'T DO THAT. AND I DID SUGGEST TO THEM THAT I WOULD DO IT BY APPOINTMENT ONLY AND I WOULD HAVE MY GATES CLOSED. SO YOU CANNOT JUST PULL IN WHENEVER YOU WANT TO. AND THAT THERE IS GONNA BE A SCHOOL ZONE THERE. SO THAT'S 20 MILES PER HOUR. PLUS THERE SHOULD BE A, A CROSSWALK OR A MO A, WHAT DO YOU CALL IT? LIKE A MILE PATROL TO LIKE GET KIDS ACROSS THE STREET. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT TRAFFIC, I MEAN EVERYONE IN THAT LOCATION'S GONNA HAVE ISSUES, NOT JUST MY BUSINESS, BUT EVEN THE HOUSES. THERE'S NO CENTER LANE TO TURN RIGHT OR LEFT. SO REGARDLESS OF WHAT BUSINESS I PUT THERE IS THAT ISSUE STANDS. AND I CHANGED IT FROM EIGHT CARS TO FIVE CARS WITH, UH, ONE PARKING FOR THE EMPLOYEE AND TWO FOR UH, CUSTOMERS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU FOR QUESTIONS. YEAH. WELCOME TO D TWO ZONING. IT'S JUST ME. UH, MS. JOHNSON, WOULD YOU MIND COMING UP? SO JUST WANNA CONFIRM FROM THE EARLIER CONVERSATION OR WHAT YOU JUST PRESENTED TO US. SO YOU'RE CHANGING YOUR REQUEST FROM C TWO CD TO JUST C TWO? UH, I'M WILLING TO, I JUST WANTED TO TRY TO SEE WHAT THE BOARD WOULD SUGGEST FOR ME. 'CAUSE I DON'T WANNA LOSE MY CHANCE, LIKE, AND HAVE TO WAIT A WHOLE NOTHER YEAR OR TWO, COME BACK AND PAY ALL OVER AGAIN. . YEAH, TOTALLY, TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. THAT'S GOOD POINT. THANK YOU. YEAH, DEFINITELY. AND THEN CAN I GET, UM, MS. HOWARD TO COME UP? YEAH. AND I, I WILL SAY I DO APPRECIATE BOTH Y'ALL AND EVERYONE WHO SPOKE LAST TIME AS I WAS VIRTUAL. JUST IT WAS GOOD TO ENGAGE IN ALL OF THIS. SO THANK YOU FOR THE DOUBLE TIME LAST TIME. AND THIS WANTED TO CHECK IN WITH YOU AND THE FOLKS YOU'VE SPOKEN TO AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, IF THE REQUEST WAS AMENDED TO A C TWO, WOULD THERE BE SUPPORT FROM YOURSELF? AS LONG AS MS. JOHNSON CAME TO US PRESENT, WE, WE WERE WILLING TO MEET WITH HER. OKAY. UM, I REALIZED THAT YOU GUYS ARE RECOGNIZING THE GREAT OLD CHAPEL. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE NAME IS, UH, AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND I, BUT IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MEMBERS OF THIS ASSOCIATION ARE SIX OF HER FAMILY MEMBERS THAT DON'T EVEN LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY, WHICH SHE DOESN'T LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY. AND IT IS LIVE ON FACEBOOK ON A PAGE THAT WE DON'T AS A COMMUNITY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT. SO IT'S HARD FOR ME TO RESPECT THAT, BUT I HAVE TO RESPECT YOUR DECISION AND YOUR RULES. SO THAT'S NUMBER ONE. UM, IT SEEMS LIKE MS. JOHNSON IS NOT REALLY UNDERSTANDING GETTING IT. WE, WE, WE WANNA HELP HER. THE LOCATION THAT SHE HAS IS MAYBE 150 FEET IF THAT FROM THE SCHOOL CAMPUS. UM, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE A CHANCE EVEN WHEN YOU GO IN THE GROCERY STORE, BUT I, IT, IT'S NO WAY IN THE WORLD THAT I'M GONNA BUY A CAR. WE, YOU KNOW, EVERY [02:00:01] CAR DEALER IN SAN ANTONIO HAS A WEBSITE YOU CAN BUY ONLINE, BUT MOST PEOPLE WANT TO GO AND LOOK AT THE CAR TEST DRIVE THE CAR. IT'S JUST NOT FEASIBLE. AND SO WE WOULD LIKE TO HELP HER, HELP HER. WE ARE ASKING YOU TO HELP US BE THAT HELP THAT WE NEED. AND THE LAST THING I WANNA SAY THAT I WAS, I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED WHEN I SAW THESE RENTAL PROPERTIES COMING UP ON MARTIN LUTHER KING. NOW THEY'RE FOR SALE. THAT MEANS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE HOMEOWNERS FAMILIES. WE CAN GET WHAT THE FLOOD OF 98 TOOK AWAY FROM US. MY FAMILY HAS LIVED IN THIS HOME FOR FIVE GENERATIONS. I LOVE MY NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR THAT, BUT I, I I DO. BUT I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. OH, MR. ROGERS, HOWARD, BEFORE YOU SIT DOWN, I'M GONNA ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS JUST SO I DON'T HAVE TO BRING YOU BACK UP AND DOWN. UH, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA JUMP THE QUEUE HERE A LITTLE BIT. YES SIR. UM, ALRIGHT. SO RIGHT NOW MS. JOHNSON HAS INDICATED THAT SHE'S WILLING TO GO TO C TWO. YES SIR. NOW WHAT THAT MEANS IS ANY C TWO CAN BE ANY OF THE C TWO USES. IT MEANS THE SITE PLAN THAT SHE'S PROVIDED IS NO LONGER GONNA BE REQUIRED. SHE'LL BE BOUND BY THE SETBACKS THAT ARE PART OF C TWO. THERE'S NO CONTROL FOR OFFICE HOURS OR BUSINESS HOURS. UH, THERE'S NO CONTROL FOR SIGNAGE OR OUTDOOR AMPLIFICATION. SO THIS IS THE TRADE OFF THAT, YOU KNOW, IF SHE GETS THE AUTO SALES THAT SHE WANTS, SHE'S GONNA BE BOUND BY THAT. SHE'S GONNA BE BOUND BY THE OFF THE BUSINESS HOURS. SHE SAID SHE'S GONNA BE BOUND TO MAKE SURE THERE AREN'T THOSE CRAZY FLAPPING, ARM INFLATABLE GUYS. UH, IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU? TO BE HONEST, NO. BUT THIS IS A BINARY CHOICE IS YEAH, I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND THE REASON WHY I SAID NO, AND THAT'S WHY I HAVE TO HAVE SOME FAITH THAT HOPEFULLY SHE'LL HAVE FAITH IN US. BUT NO, I'M NOT, I AM A RESEARCH PERSON. MM-HMM . AND MY MOTHER USED TO TEASE ME ALL THE TIME. BUT NO, I NEED TO KNOW ALL THE DETAILS, YOU KNOW, AND I'M GONNA LOOK AND I WANT TO SEE WHERE I'M WRONG. I'M GONNA BE CORRECTED AND KNOW I WANNA LOOK AT EVERYTHING. SO I NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE FOR HER BUILDING ON THIS PROPERTY. I NEED TO HAVE THAT, I NEED TO READ IT. I NEED TO STUDY, YOU KNOW, THE PROS AND THE CONS. WELL, HERE, HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS TODAY, AS UH, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE POINTED OUT, WE ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY. AND SO THERE IS STILL ANOTHER HEARING BEFORE CITY COUNCIL. MM-HMM . UM, AND SO WHAT I WOULD RECOMMEND TO YOU, YES SIR, UH, TALK TO, UH, THE, UH, TO MR. VELA, MR. BELLA. UM, ASK HIM TO GIVE YOU THE BASE ZONING DISTRICTS AND THAT WILL GIVE YOU EXAMPLES OF WHAT'S ALLOWED IN C TWO. YES SIR. AND CONTINUE TO TALK TO MS. JOHNSON. WOULD YOU AGREE TO DO THAT? I HAVE TO HAVE, I HAVE TO ASK A QUESTION 'CAUSE I GET AFTER I UNDERSTAND THAT , BUT I, SIR, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT MM-HMM . THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO SAY IT, BUT I AM, I'M, I'M VERY OLD SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, COME TO ME DECENT. DO NOT COME TO ME HALF DRESSED AT MY HOME. I'M SORRY. AND THAT IS ON THE RECORD, BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I FEEL. ALRIGHT, WELL THANK YOU SO MUCH MI MS. ROGERS. HOWARD, I APPRECIATE IT. ALRIGHT. QUESTIONS TO THE LEFT? YES, COMMISSIONER. WHAT'S THAT THEN COMMISSIONER DOELL QUICK QUESTION FOR STAFF, UH, ON C TWO NEXT TO OR C3, WHICH IS ADJACENT TO THIS, UH, NEXT TO A R FOUR, IS THERE ANY KIND OF LANDSCAPE BUFFER OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT REQUIRED ON THE C TWO? AND IF SO, HOW MUCH THERE IS? IF I COULD JUST PULL THAT SECTION OF CODE. SO FOR A C TWO PROPERTY IT IS A 15 FOOT C BUFFER, OR I'M SORRY, A B BUFFER. UH, WHEN IT'S A BUDDING SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL. OKAY. SO WHAT I'M SEEING HERE LOOKS LIKE THERE'S A SEVEN FOOT BUFFER AND THEN THERE'S A PARKING SPACE. SO PAVED PARKING IS, IS IT JUST, IS THAT A BUILDING BUFFER OR IS THAT A LANDSCAPE BUFFER THAT CAN'T PARK IT, PAVE IT, DO ANYTHING? TYPICALLY I DO NOT REGULATE, UH, THE LANDSCAPING. BUT, UM, I DO BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE WAYS OF WORKING TO MAKE SURE, BUT I BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO HAVE ABOUT 15 FOOT OF BUFFER THERE. IF NOT, IF IT DOESN'T MEET [02:05:01] CODE, THEN IT NEEDS TO GO GET A VARIANCE WITH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. SO IN OTHER WORDS, RIGHT NOW AS PROPOSED, THIS WOULD REQUIRE, UH, A VARIANCE? QUITE POSSIBLY, YES. SO SHE OR LOSE A PARKING SPACE? CORRECT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER DUVALL, UH, BACK ON THE, UH, THE MAP, THE ZONING MAP, IF WE COULD MAYBE SWITCH BACK. COOL. YEAH, THIS WORKS. SO UH, I SEE A LOT OF C3 ON THIS BLOCK FACE ON MARTIN LUTHER KING. UM, I'M SORRY, WOULD YOU REMIND ME WHAT'S THE C3 R? I JUST FORGOT THAT'S RESTRICTIVE ALCOHOL SALES. UH, ANY ALCOHOL SALES WOULD HAVE TO BE, UH, TO GO ONLY. AND WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN R AND NA? OH, BETWEEN R AND NA, NA IS NO ALCOHOL SALES WHATSOEVER. THEY ARE, IS RESTRICTED ALCOHOL SALES. ANY ALCOHOL SALES WOULD HAVE TO BE TO GO ONLY. GOT IT. OKAY. UH, ON THOSE C THREES I SEE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ON THIS BLOCK FACE, WOULD ANY OF THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS BE ALLOWED TO HAVE A USED CAR DEALERSHIP ON THEIR LOT? ASSUMING THAT THE SIZE DIMENSIONS AND RIGHT. AVOIDING ANY SITE DIMENSION RESTRICTIONS? THE, THE C3 LOTS WOULD BE PERMITTED A, A CAR LOT. UH, WHAT ABOUT A NIGHTCLUB? I BELIEVE SO, BUT I THINK A NIGHTCLUB HAS TO BE A CERTAIN SIZE. SO ALSO THE R ADD THAT BACK INTO THE RIGHT? CORRECT. YEAH. UM, BUT DANCE HALLS, UH, I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO ANY INSIGHTS INTO HOW WE HAVE A AN R SANDWICHED BETWEEN A BUNCH OF PROSPECTIVE NIGHTCLUBS AND DANCE HALLS AND LIKE, HOW, HOW DID IT, I MEAN, IN TERMS OF THE HISTORY OF THE, UH, THE ZONING, HOW, HOW DID IT GET THIS MESSY? HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? MOST LIKELY THOSE PROPERTIES THAT ARE C3, NOW WERE REZONED TO B THREE AT A EARLIER TIME INDIVIDUALLY. SO EACH ONE PROBABLY FOR A SPECIFIC USE AND THEN, THEN YOU KINDA GET THE MIXED EXCUSES QUITE POSSIBLY. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. OKAY. AND THEN, UH, LAST QUESTION. UH, THE ESSAY FORWARD PROCESS, MY UNDERSTANDING, RIGHT, I THINK FOR THE LAST HEARING Y'ALL SAID THAT THIS AREA HAS NOT YET HAD ITS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ELEMENT UPDATE. NO, THERE, THE SA TOMORROW PLAN HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED FOR THIS AREA. SO WHEN THAT SA TOMORROW PLAN UPDATE HAPPENS, UM, IS THAT A TIME WHEN PROPERTY OWNERS CAN GET TOGETHER WITH THE DISTRICT OFFICE AND LOOK AT REZONING AND LOOK AT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ELEMENT TO, TO KIND OF SET A VISION FOR THIS, FOR THIS AREA? ABSOLUTELY. UM, AND HOW IS THAT, HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN A LARGE AREA REZONE? LIKE HOW IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE DIFFERENT FROM THE LARGE AREA REZONE? WELL, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE WOULD CONTEMPLATE JUST THE LAND USE CLASSIFICATIONS RATHER THAN ANY SPECIFIC ZONING DESIGNATION FOR THE PROPERTIES. OKAY. AND WHEN, UH, IN OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY, WHEN THERE'S MORE KIND OF WIDE REACHING COMPREHENSIVE PLAN UPDATE CHANGES, UM, DO TYPICALLY, DO THEY ALSO DO LARGE AREA REZONES AT THE SAME TIME OR DO THEY WAIT UNTIL LATER TO MAKE IT CONSISTENT? I CAN ANSWER THAT. SO TYPICALLY THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, WHEN THEY'RE DOING THEIR LAND USE UPDATES, THEY'LL GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS. IT'S A TWO STEP PROCESS, IF YOU WILL. UM, SO THEY'LL GO THROUGH THE LAND USE ADOPTION PROCESS AND THEN POSSIBLY A YEAR AFTER THAT, UM, THEY WOULD BE GOING THROUGH THE REZONING PROCESS AS WELL. UM, THEY TAKE THE LEAD ON THOSE PROCESSES. ANYTHING THAT IS COMING FROM A CITY COUNCIL REQUEST, UM, THROUGH A CCR IF YOU WILL, THAT WOULD BE COMING TO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES AND WE WOULD PROCESS THAT PROCESS, THAT ZONING REQUEST AS A LARGE AREA REZONING. PERFECT. THANK YOU SIR. ALRIGHT, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS LEFT? YES, COMMISSIONER? WHAT'S THAT? I FORGOT ANOTHER PART OF MY QUESTION. UH, THEN YOU GET, YOU CAN WAIT TILL WE COME AROUND AGAIN. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? ALRIGHT. RIGHT. YES. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, QUESTION FOR STAFF. SO JUST UH, TO, TO ENLIGHTEN ME. SO THE REQUEST IS FOR A C TWO, UH, UH, CD, BUT THE OTHER OPTION IS A STRAIGHT C TWO, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO IF WE, UH, RECOMMEND C TWO, SHE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE HER AUTO SALES, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO QUESTION FOR MS. JOHNSON. UH, SO IF, IF, IF WE DO A C TWO, WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PLAN? UM, I HAVE HAVEN'T GOTTEN THE, WHAT'S ALLOWED THERE FOR C TWO, SO I HAVE TO GO OVER THAT AND SEE, 'CAUSE THIS JUST CAME TO MY, UH, [02:10:01] UM, AWARENESS YESTERDAY THAT, UM, THEY HAD GOT MORE SIGNATURES AND THEN I WAS LIKE, OH WOW. SO, UM, I SPOKE WITH UH, DEL BROOKS AND HE SAID THEY WERE WILLING TO DO A C UM, ALLOW A C TWO THERE. SO THAT'S IT. JUST HIT ME ALL GOTCHA. ONCE, SO, YEAH. OKAY, THANK YOU. AND THEN TWO MORE QUESTIONS UP FOR YOU. UH, IS THERE A, UH, I SEE A PROPOSED, WELL, YOU WOULDN'T NEED IT ON A C TWO, BUT JUST REMIND ME, UH, THERE'S A PROPOSED STRUCTURE THERE. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD OH, I'M GONNA HAVE TO PUT IT SOMETHING ELSE. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO SAY THAT THE CAR LOT WOULD BE THE BEST OPTION FOR THAT LOT BECAUSE IT'S SO SMALL AND THE BUILDING IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE THAT BIG, WHICH WILL ALLOW ME MORE SPACES. SO THAT'S WHY I ORIGINALLY WENT WITH THE CAR LOT FOR THAT AREA. 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE, YEAH. AND, AND THEN REMIND ME, ARE YOU THE, THE PROPERTY OWNER OR YOU YES, I OWN IT. OKAY. MM-HMM . OKAY. THANK YOU MS. JOHNSON. YOU'RE WELCOME. AND THEN FOR CITY STAFF, UH, REMIND ME, SO IF, IF SHE, UM, WAIT, REMIND ME, IS THERE A, IS THERE A STRUCTURE THERE NOW? NO, NO, THE PROPERTY'S VACANT. OKAY. SO OBVIOUSLY IF, IF C TWO IS, IS, UH, PROPOSED, UH, ANY, I MEAN THERE'S NO, BESIDES A PET CEMETERY, I MEAN ANY KIND OF, UH, 'CAUSE THAT'S ALLOWED WITHIN C TWO, UH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BUILD SOME KIND OF STRUCTURE CORRECT? PRESUMABLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE USE IS. UH, CORRECT, YEAH. AND MY ONLY CONCERN FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IT WOULD BE THAT, YOU KNOW, WITHIN C TWO, I MEAN YOU HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, MINIATURE GOLF, BUT NO ONE'S GONNA BUILD A MINIATURE GOLF THERE, A LIQUOR STORE, WHICH IS A BIG X FOR ME. UM, YOU KNOW, THE PET CEMETERY I GUESS. BUT AUTO AND LIGHT TRUCK, LOO OIL FACILITY, I MEAN, IT JUST, IT'S SCARY. BUT, UH, BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UH, ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ, PLEASE. UH, MS. HOWARD, CAN YOU STEP UP PLEASE? I'M SORRY. YES, SIR. UM, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT EARLIER YOU SAID THAT IF SHE WOULD'VE COME UP TO YOU, YOU WOULD'VE WORKED WITH HER. I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH HER, YES, I AM. OKAY. SO NO, NO, I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH HER AND THE COMMUNITY IS WILLING TO WORK WITH HER, BUT WE ARE ASKING THAT HER, I'M JUST ONE VOICE, SEVERAL PROPERTIES WITH ONE VOICE, BUT I WANT HER TO MEET WITH THE COMMUNITY, THE NEIGHBORS, THE HOMESTEADERS, THE, THE, THE SEE WHAT WE NEED AND GIVE US SOMETHING TO ENHANCE US NOT TO TEAR US DOWN. OKAY. UH, SO IF SHE WOULD'VE COME UP TO YOU, UH, WOULD YOU HAVE SUPPORTED IT A CAR LOT? NO. OKAY. UM, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE, UH, BUSINESS THAT'S ACROSS THE STREET FROM, FROM THERE? YES, SIR. I AM. UH, WALTER ROGERS? YES, I AM. UH, ARE YOU IN SUPPORT OF THAT BUSINESS? IT'S MY DAD AND ACTUALLY HE'S UH, OKAY. UH, ARE YOU AWARE THAT THAT IS ZONED R FOUR ALSO? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE ZONING, BUT IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S WHAT IT IS, THEN THAT'S FINE. RIGHT. IS THAT 34 51? IS THAT WHAT HE'S SPEAKING OF? OKAY. SO, SO DO YOU BELIEVE A CONCRETE CONTRACTOR BUS CONTRACTING BUSINESS IS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT LOCATION AT THE TIME? YES, IT WAS. YES IT IS RIGHT NOW. YES IT IS. AND SO YOU DON'T THINK A CAR LOT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE, SIR, IF YOU DON'T MIND ME SAYING IT, THE CONCRETE CONTRACTING BUSINESS RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING EVEN THOUGH IT, WE HOPE THAT IT WILL BE. OKAY. I SEE A DUMP TRUCK IN FRONT OF THE BUSINESS THERE. YES, SIR. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. UM, ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? RIGHT? NO. ALRIGHT. QUESTIONS LEFT, COMMISSIONER? WHAT'S THAT? I'M COMING BACK TO YOU. OKAY. THIS GOES BACK TO THE 15 FOOT SETBACK ISSUE. THE PROPERTY TO THE WEST OR TO THE LEFT OF IT IS ALSO ZONED R FOUR. CORRECT. SO SHE'S GONNA END UP WITH A 15 FOOT LANDSCAPE BUFFER ALONG THAT SIDE ALSO. CORRECT. SO THAT'S A DOUBLE WHAMMY ON TRYING TO GET A VARIANCE OUT OF THAT. CORRECT. REALLY SHRINKING DOWN THE USABILITY OF THE SITE. YES, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE THAT BEFORE THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT FOR CONSIDERATION. OKAY. ALRIGHT. YES, COMMISSIONER SIPES. SO THIS, THE, THE PROPOSAL IS FOR A C TWO CD, SO ALL THE USES ALLOWED IN C TWO, INCLUDING A PET CEMETERY, I WOULD STILL BE ALLOWED. SO EVEN, EVEN IF, UM, SAY THAT A CAR [02:15:01] LOT DID NOT WORK OUT, YOU COULD STILL DO A PET CEMETERY OR A LIQUOR STORE, ALL THOSE OTHER USES THAT WERE MENTIONED, RIGHT? CORRECT. I'LL ADD THE CAVEAT ON THE LIQUOR STORE THERE, THAT IF THE SCHOOL SCHOOLS ACROSS THAT'S THAT IS TRUE. THAT IS TRUE. WE'VE GOT THAT ISSUE. BUT, UH, YES. BUT YES, ANY OTHER C TWO USE WOULD BE PERMITTED. GOTCHA. THANKS. ALL RIGHT. ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS LEFT? SECOND ROUND RIGHT. ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER LO FINAL QUESTIONS TO YOU? NONE. VERY GOOD. ALRIGHT. IN THAT CASE, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED. COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU FOR, UH, DISCUSSION AND POTENTIAL MOTION. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. UM, SO THIS HASN'T COME UP, WELL, IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE STAFF PRESENTATION, BUT I JUST WANNA NOTE THIS. OH, IT'S ON THE SCREEN. THIS GOT 101 LETTERS OF OPPOSITION OR POINTS OF OPPOSITION. UM, THE LAST TIME WE HEARD THIS COUPLE WEEKS AGO, THE CAR LOT WAS THE, THE OFFER. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF INTEREST AND FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE TO C TWO. WHAT I'M HEARING FROM EVERYONE IS THAT THE CAR LOT'S A NO-GO. THERE IS INTEREST IN GETTING SOMETHING THERE. IT SOUNDS LIKE FROM THE WORK YOU'VE DONE, MS. JOHNSON, THERE'S BEEN SOME INVESTMENT IN FAITH IN WANTING TO SEE YOU TRY TO PUT SOMETHING THERE AND TRYING SUCCEED FOR THAT LOT. I KNOW I'VE HEARD FROM OTHER NEIGHBORS AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AS A WHOLE, UM, THE INTEREST IN NOT JUST HAVING A VACANT LOT, WHICH I SUPPORT AND AGREE WITH, BUT SOUNDS LIKE THE CAR LOT IS NOT THE OPTION. UM, BUT YOU HAVE 101 PEOPLE AGAINST YOU FOR THE C TWO CD. I THINK REALISTICALLY THE ONLY PATH FORWARD THAT MAKES SENSE HERE IS A ONE MONTH CONTINUANCE. I THE C TWO MAKES SENSE TO ME. I DO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE 101 PLUS HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO WEIGH IN AND YOU CAN TALK TO THEM. I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF THIS CAME IN YESTERDAY. I ALSO SAW A LOT OF THIS COME IN YESTERDAY. UM, SORRY, OUR PUBLIC HEARING'S CLOSED, SO I CAN'T CALL YOU UP. BUT YEAH, I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA MOTION TO CONTINUE THIS FOR A MONTH. UM, I THINK C TWO IS THE PATH PATH FORWARD, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE FOLKS ARE BROUGHT IN AND OBVIOUSLY SINCE IT WAS SO LAST MINUTE, YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO MAKE A PLAN FOR THAT. UM, SO I'LL OFFER THE MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE. ALRIGHT, THERE IS A MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE FOR ITEM NUMBER FOUR BY COMMISSIONER LO. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. SECOND. BY COMMISSIONER WHITSON DISCUSSION LEFT? YES. COMMISSIONER ELL, UH, I'D MENTIONED AT THE LAST HEARING. THIS IS MARTIN LUTHER KING DRIVE NEXT TO MARTIN LUTHER KING MIDDLE SCHOOL NEXT TO MARTIN LUTHER KING PARK. THIS IS A CENTER OF THE COMMUNITY. IT DESERVES A LONG-TERM PLAN FOR HOW THIS AREA SHOULD DEVELOP AND WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE INTO THE FUTURE. HOPEFULLY, UH, THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WHO CAME AT THE LAST MEETING WHO CAME TODAY CAN BE INVOLVED IN THAT PUBLIC PROCESS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THE KIND OF USES THAT WE WANT ON THIS STREET. UM, BUT UNTIL THAT'S DONE, I, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO, UH, GET THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. SO I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION FOR A CONTINUANCE. PROBABLY C TWO MAKES SENSE. UM, BUT FOR SURE 101 LETTERS OF OPPOSITION. YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THOSE FOLKS, AT LEAST SOME OF THEM AGREE. ALRIGHT, LEFT DISCUSSION, RIGHT DISCUSSION, COMMISSIONER OT AND THEN COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. UM, I, I RESPECT AND APPRECIATE WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. I THINK THE VISION THAT WE ALL HAVE FOR MLK AND THE EAST SIDE IS MUCH BIGGER THAN YOUR SMALL LOT AND WOULD TAKE A LOT MORE MONEY TO TURN THE EAST SIDE AND MLK INTO WHAT WE ALL ENVISION FOR IT. UM, THE FACT THAT THERE'S ALL OF THE C3 AROUND YOU AND WE'RE FOCUSED ON THIS ONE LITTLE R FOUR IS AGAIN, BEYOND ME AND, UH, TRYING TO KEEP MY EMOTIONS OUT OF THIS BECAUSE I, AGAIN, RESPECT YOU AS A WOMAN AND AN INDIVIDUAL WHO'S TRYING TO CREATE A BUSINESS. SO, WITH THAT, IF YOU DO COME BACK FOR A C TWO, I HAVE A LOT OF IDEAS FOR WHAT YOU CAN DO THERE. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. UH, ALL RIGHT. I WON'T BE SUPPORTING A MOTION FOR CONTINUOUS. I THINK IT SHOULD BE APPROVED CONSIDERING THAT THERE IS, UH, A BUSINESS ACROSS THE STREET THAT JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE RELATED TO MS. HOWARD. SECOND, UH, THERE'S PROPERTIES THAT ARE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO HER THAT ARE ALREADY COMMERCIAL. I DON'T SEE AN ISSUE FOR THIS PROPERTY TO BE COMMERCIAL FOR HER, SO I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. IF IT WAS FOR APPROVAL, I WOULD ALRIGHT. UH, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, YEAH, I, I THINK ON BOTH SIDES THERE'S JUST KIND OF SOME, SOME ISSUES HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, IT A CAR LOT VERSUS C TWO OR A LIQUOR STORE CAN COME IN. IT, IT, IT'S, I DON'T THINK IT'S A WIN-WIN FOR THE EAST SIDE. UM, HOWEVER, I, I, I, AGAIN, WE'RE JUST A RECOMMENDING BODY. SO THIS, IN MY OPINION, YOU KNOW, WE'RE [02:20:01] GONNA, I'M GONNA SUPPORT THE MOTION. HOPEFULLY WE CAN SIT DOWN AND, AND WORK AND TALK, BUT IF ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF THIS, MAYBE IT'LL BE TO DO SOME SORT OF SOMETHING BEYOND MY PAY GRADE. BUT ANYWAY, UH, YEAH, I JUST, JUST DO ONE MORE CHANCE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UM, I I WILL TAKE THE LAST WORD. UH, I HEARD TODAY THE APPLICANT WILLING TO GO C TWO. I HEARD MS. ROGERS, HOWARD, ALTHOUGH WITH SOME QUALIFICATIONS, SAY C TWO, I'M LOOKING AT MLK DRIVE. I THINK C TWO IS APPROPRIATE. STAFF AS AN ALTERNATE RECOMMENDATION HAS RECOMMENDED C TWO. UH, I THINK THERE'S NO REASON WHY WE CAN'T GO FORWARD WITH C TWO TODAY AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE CAN GET TOGETHER. AS WE HEAD TO CITY COUNCIL, I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. THE MOTION IS FOR CONTINUANCE TO NOVEMBER 17TH BY COMMISSIONER LO WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER WOODS. ROLL CALL, VOTE PLEASE. COMMISSIONER LO? YES. COMMISSIONER WIT? YES. COMMISSIONER NOOSA? YES. COMMISSIONER PIE RODRIGUEZ? NO. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER VO. AYE. COMMISSIONER PANA? NO. CHAIR. BUSANTE? NO. MOTION CARRIES. ALRIGHT, WE WILL SEE YOU AGAIN NOVEMBER 17TH. GOOD LUCK. ALRIGHT, NOW, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, YOU HAVE SEEN WHAT WE DO AT THE ZONING COMMISSION. WE ARE MOVING, MOVING ON TO THE MAIN EVENT. ITEM NUMBER 13, WARMED UP CROWD . LOGAN, DO YOU WANT A HYPE MAN OR ARE YOU GOOD? THE HYPE MAN? YEAH, GET THE, THE JUMP SQUAD OUT HERE. . OKAY. YEAH, AND I'M GONNA HAVE, I'M HAVE SIT UP HERE TO TAKE THIS ONE. THAT WAY YOU GET TO RELAX. APPRECIATE IT. AND MS. ANA, ABSENT, UH, EMERGENCY, I, I WOULD LIKE YOU TO STAY THROUGH THE DURATION OF THE MEETING. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I CAN, I CAN GO AHEAD AND DO THE, CAN YOU CLICK BACK OVER HERE? OKAY, I GOT IT. ALRIGHT. UH, THANK YOU EVERYONE. UH, GONNA GO AHEAD AND JUMP INTO OUR LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA TODAY. UH, LOGAN SPARROW, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT. AND TODAY I AM GONNA LAY OUT FOR YOU THE BACKGROUND OF, UH, WHY WE ARE HERE, WHAT PRECIPITATED THIS CODE AMENDMENT. UH, I WILL ALSO PRESENT TO YOU A COUPLE DIFFERENT OPTIONS. I WILL BE FRANK WITH WHAT I SEE AS THE PROS AND CONS OF EACH OF THOSE. UH, AND THEN I WILL TALK ABOUT OUR NEXT STEPS MOVING FORWARD FROM HERE. SO, WE ARE HERE TODAY BECAUSE ON OCTOBER 29TH, UH, UH, LAST YEAR, ALMOST EXACTLY A YEAR, UH, TO THE DAY, A CITY COUNCIL, UH, CONSIDERATION REQUEST WAS SUBMITTED BY DISTRICT SIX REQUESTING, UH, TWO THINGS. NUMBER ONE, THAT THE CITY COUNCIL RECEIVE A B SESSION BRIEFING FROM SAS AND CPS RELATED TO UTILITY POLICY FOR DATA CENTERS. UH, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY TO TODAY'S CONVERSATION, A REQUEST THAT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT CONVENE A SERIES OF STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS AND REPORT BACK TO CITY COUNCIL WITH RECOMMENDATIONS FOR UDC AMENDMENTS FOR DATA CENTERS. UH, THE DIRECTION WAS CLEAR. THEY DID NOT WANT 12 OR 18 MONTHS OF TASK FORCE DISCUSSIONS. THEY WANTED US TO CONVENE THESE MEETINGS AND COME UP WITH A PROPOSAL AND GET BACK TO THEM QUICKLY. UM, OF NOTE IN THAT CCR, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS MENTIONED THAT WILL BE PERTINENT TO TODAY'S CONVERSATION, SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED THAT DSD EXAMINE THE FEASIBILITY OR APPROPRIATENESS OF THE USE OF A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION TO REGULATE DATA CENTERS, UH, THROUGH THE ZONING ORDINANCE. CAN KEEP IT CLIPPED ON THIS ONE. OTHERWISE I CAN'T ADVANCE IT. WE HAD A TOTAL OF FOUR STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS. THE DATES ARE ON YOUR SCREEN. THEY SPANNED MAY THROUGH SEPTEMBER, UH, EARLIER THIS SUMMER. UH, AT EACH OF THE, WELL, LET ME START OFF WITH THE FIRST DATE OF THE CENTER STAKEHOLDER MEETING WAS FOR CITY STAFF TO COLLECT INPUT. AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WE HEARD AT THAT [02:25:01] FIRST DATA CENTER STAKEHOLDER MEETING WAS THAT, UH, DATA CENTER, THE FOLKS THAT BUILD THEM, OPERATE THEM, MAINTAIN THEM. THEY WANT PREDICTABILITY AND CONSISTENCY IN WHAT THE RULES ARE. I THINK THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS, THERE MAY ONLY BE ONE AREA OF RELATIVE AGREEMENT, AND THAT'S THAT WHAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS TODAY IS NOT THE ANSWER TO REGULATE DATA CENTERS. AS A REMINDER, UH, WE CURRENTLY CLASSIFY THEM AS A DATA OFFICE PROCESSING USE. IT'S PERMITTED IN THE CI THINK IT'S C ONE, UH, AND UP. UH, WE'VE GOT OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF FEEDBACK THAT SAYS THAT THESE ARE TOO INTENSE IN OPERATION TO BE, UH, ALLOWED IN A DISTRICT, UH, THAT UNIN INTENSE. SO A COUPLE THINGS UNSURPRISINGLY, UH, THAT WERE DISCUSSED IN OUR STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS. UH, WE FOCUSED ON LAND USE. WE DID NOT FOCUS ON WATER AND ELECTRICITY POLICY. SAWS AND CPS ARE THE UTILITY EXPERTS. WE WILL DEFER TO THEM ON WHAT POLICIES THEY THINK ARE APPROPRIATE FOR DATA CENTERS, JUST AS THEY ARE NOT ADOPTING RULES THAT DICTATE ZONING. SO WE'RE GONNA STAY IN OUR LANE. UM, WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT REASONABLE DISTANCES FROM INCOMPATIBLE USES SHOULD BE, AND THERE WILL NO DOUBT BE FOLKS BEHIND ME, UH, THAT PARTICIPATED IN THOSE STAKEHOLDER DISCUSSIONS THAT WILL HAVE THEIR VARYING OPINIONS ON WHAT THE DISTANCE SHOULD BE. AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GO THROUGH WHAT THE PROPOSALS ARE. UM, AND AGAIN, LOTS OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THE SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE, UH, DEPLOYED AS A TOOL TO REGULATE DATA CENTERS. UH, FOLLOWING OUR THIRD, UH, IN FACT, IT WAS ON THE SAME EXACT DAY AS OUR THIRD STAKEHOLDER MEETING. UH, WE HAD A CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL SESSION FOLLOWING THE SUBMISSION OF A THREE SIGNATURE MEMO WHERE, UH, CITY COUNCIL HAD REQUESTED A SPECIAL MEETING TO DETERMINE IF WE AS A CITY SHOULD ADOPT A BUILDING PERMIT MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS. UM, WITHOUT GOING INTO THE LENGTHY LAWS THAT REGULATE, UH, DATA CENTER OR BUILDING PERMIT MORATORIUMS, UH, IT SUFFICES TO SAY THAT THERE WAS NOT SUPPORT FROM CITY COUNCIL TO ADOPT A MORATORIUM RATHER THAN CONSIDERING A MORATORIUMS. WE WERE TOLD JUST CONTINUE WITH THE UDC AMENDMENTS THAT YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN WORKING ON AND COME BACK TO COUNCIL. HOWEVER, BASED ON CONVERSATION AT THAT MEETING, SPECIFICALLY A HANDFUL OF, UH, CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS EXPRESSING SUPPORT FOR A SPECIFIC USE IN EVERY INSTANCE. A SECOND ALTERNATIVE WAS PROPOSED THAT WAS PRESENTED AT THE FINAL STAKEHOLDER MEETING, WHICH WAS HELD IN SEPTEMBER. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I'M GONNA ASK IF WE CAN JUMP OVER. I'M GONNA RUN THROUGH WHAT WERE INITIALLY OPTIONS ONE AND TWO, A LITTLE MORE IN DEPTH, AND I'M GONNA TRY TO DO THIS AS CLEARLY AS I CAN SO THAT WE DON'T GET, UH, WIRES CROSSED. CERTAINLY IF THERE'S ANY CONFUSION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. HIGH LEVEL OPTION ONE PROVIDES A SCENARIO WHERE NOT EVERY DATA CENTER HAS TO COME BEFORE THIS COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT. UH, WE ALLOW THEM IN C3 AND INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS. SO THIS WAS, UH, MIXED INDUSTRIAL, ONE, MIXED INDUSTRIAL TWO BUSINESS PARK INCLUDED. UM, IF CERTAIN CONDITIONS CAN BE MET, AND AGAIN, BEFORE I JUMP INTO THEM, WE CAN DEBATE WHAT THE CONDITIONS SHOULD BE, WHAT THE DISTANCES SHOULD BE. BUT AS WE SCROLL DOWN HERE, LET'S GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT WHAT THOSE ARE. AGAIN, A ZONING, THOSE ARE THE DISTRICTS THAT YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE IN. SO NO MORE C ONE, NO MORE C TWO, UH, LOCATION AND PLACEMENT DATA CENTERS WILL BE PERMITTED BY RIGHT, PROVIDED THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE MET. WHAT WAS DISCUSSED OR INITIALLY PROPOSED BY STAFF WAS 500 THAT YOU SHOULD BE 500 FEET AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL USES, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE SCHOOLS, OR INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING, DAYCARE CENTERS, ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES AND HOSPITALS. THERE WAS DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, IS HOSPITAL APPROPRIATE, THEY HAVE BACKUP GENERATORS, KINDA LIKE DATA CENTERS. UH, CERTAINLY LOTS OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT 500 FEET WAS APPROPRIATE. I, UH, AS PART OF THIS PROCESS VISITED A A DATA CENTER. I CAN TELL YOU THAT AT 300 FEET, THE GENERATOR WAS REALLY NOT THAT LOUD, I GUESS. SO LOTS OF DEBATE ABOUT WHAT THE NUMBER SHOULD BE. UM, PROPOSAL, AND WE HEARD THIS FROM CITY COUNCIL ACTUALLY AT THE GOVERNANCE COMMITTEE AGENDA AT [02:30:01] THE, AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS PROCESS, THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME SORT OF LANDSCAPE BUFFER YARDS, FENCING, MORE FOR VISUAL BARRIERS THAN ANYTHING ELSE. UM, A REQUIREMENT THAT THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, UH, SUBSTATIONS, UH, I KNOW THAT THAT HAS GENERATED SOME CONFUSION. THERE ARE SOME, NO PUN. THERE ARE SOME DATA CENTERS THAT HAVE ONSITE SUBSTATIONS. SO THIS IS MEANT TO REFER TO PRIVATE INFRASTRUCTURE, NOT CPS ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE. UM, ONSITE POWER GENERATION GENERATORS OR THE FUELING SYSTEM SHOULD ALSO BE SET BACK 50 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY, UH, BOUNDARY, I THINK THROUGH THIS PROCESS. UH, THE OTHER AREA OF RELATIVE AGREEMENT, UH, IS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED OVER THE EDWARDS RECHARGE ZONE DISTRICT. WE DON'T ALLOW GAS STATIONS WITH DIESEL TANKS OVER THE ERZD. WHY WOULD WE ALLOW DATA CENTERS WITH EQUAL OR GREATER AMOUNTS OF DIESEL BEING STORED TO POWER BACKUP GENERATORS? IF YOU CAN MEET THOSE CONDITIONS IN OPTION ONE, YOU GET YOUR PERMIT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO COME TO ZONING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO CITY COUNCIL. IF YOU CANNOT MEET ANY ONE OF THOSE CONDITIONS, YOU DO, YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT YOUR CHANGE OF ZONING. YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP A SITE PLAN MUCH LIKE THE ONES YOU'VE CONSIDERED HERE TODAY. YOU CAN IMPOSE CONDITIONS THROUGH THAT PROCESS JUST AS YOU WOULD ANY OTHER CASE. LASTLY, AS PART OF OPTION ONE, WE CAME UP WITH A DEFINITION. UH, A DATA CENTER IS A USE INVOLVING A BUILDING OR PREMISE, PRIMARILY OCCUPIED BY COMPUTERS AND OR TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND RELATED EQUIPMENT, INCLUDING SUPPORTING EQUIPMENT WHERE INFORMATION IS PROCESSED, TRANSFERRED, AND OR STORED. A FACILITY USED PRIMARILY FOR THE STORAGE, MANAGEMENT, PROCESSING AND TRANSMISSION OF DIGITAL DATA, WHICH HOUSES COMPUTER OR NETWORK EQUIPMENT SYSTEMS, SERVERS, APPLIANCES, AND OTHER ASSOCIATED COMPONENTS RELATED TO DIGITAL DATA OPERATIONS. AND LATER IN MY PRESENTATION, I WILL INTRODUCE TO YOU AN ALTERNATIVE DEFINITION THAT WAS DISCUSSED LAST WEEK AT B SESSION. IF WE CAN JUMP INTO OPTION TWO, OPTION TWO AGAIN, IN RESPONSE TO WHAT WE HEARD FROM SEVERAL OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS AT THAT AUGUST 25TH, UH, SPECIAL SESSION. THIS SIMPLY SAYS THAT EVERY SINGLE DATA CENTER, YOU STILL HAVE TO BE IN THOSE SAME DISTRICTS, C3 OR INDUSTRIAL, BUT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF 'EM HAS TO COME TO YOU. UH, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED, HOW FAR AWAY THEY ARE, IT GIVES YOU AND THE COUNCIL THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAILOR APPROPRIATE CONDITIONS TO THE INDIVIDUAL PROJECT, BUT AGAIN, REQUIRES A REZONING EVERY SINGLE TIME. UM, AGAIN, SAME ZONING DISTRICTS. THIS ONE, BASED ON SOME ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK WE GOT INTRODUCED THAT LIGHTING STANDARDS, LIKE WHAT WE HAVE IN THE MLOD SHOULD APPLY TO EVERY DATA CENTER NO MATTER WHAT THAT THE NOISE ORDINANCE APPLIES, IT DOES ANYWAY. IT'S JUST SPECIFICALLY NOTED HERE, UH, THE IDEA THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOME SORT OF EMERGENCY CONTACT, UH, INFORMATION SUPPLIED TO THE CITY. THE BASIS BEING THAT MANY DATA CENTERS CAN BE VERY LARGE FACILITIES. IF EMERGENCY SERVICES IS CALLED, THERE'S AN EMERGENCY AT THE DATA CENTER, SOMEONE ON FILE THAT EMERGENCY SERVICES CAN COORDINATE WITH TO KNOW WHERE IN THE 250,000 SQUARE FOOT DATA CENTER THE EMERGENCY IS AT. UM, AND THEN THE INTRODUCTION OF, UH, DEVELOPMENT CONSTRAINTS. SO IF WE CAN SCROLL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, AS PART OF THIS SPECIFIC USE REZONING, THE ZONING COMMISSION, CITY COUNCIL CAN CONSIDER ALL OF THESE THINGS. THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO IMPOSE THEM. SO IF YOU HAVE A VERY LARGE DATA CENTER VERY CLOSE TO HOMES, YOU CAN REQUEST ADDITIONAL BEYOND THE MINIMUMS I DISCUSSED IN OPTION ONE. YOU HAVE MUCH MORE FLEXIBILITY THROUGH OPTION TWO. AGAIN, THINGS YOU'RE USED TO LOOKING AT, UH, HEIGHT LIMITATIONS, SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, LOCATION OF INGRESS, EGRESS, UM, IF WE CAN GO UP REAL QUICK, B WAS SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED DURING THAT SPECIAL SESSION, SHOULD THERE BE SOME SORT OF REQUIREMENT THAT BACKUP POWER GENERATION SYSTEMS SOMEHOW BE CONTAINED AS A NOISE DEADENING TECHNIQUE? I, I THINK SOME OF THE CONVERSATION THAT WAS USED IS THAT THEY SHOULD BE IN AN ENCLOSED BUILDING. THERE ARE OBVIOUS BUILDING CODE CHALLENGES WITH THAT. BUT AGAIN, THE IDEA, SHOULD THEY BE CONTAINED BY A WALL, UH, WHATEVER IT MAY BE, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE NOT SO LOUD. SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE, UH, THINGS THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED IMPOSED OR NOT IMPOSED THROUGH THE CHANGE ZONING PROCESS. [02:35:01] LASTLY, DISCONTINUATION, UH, WAS THE, THE LAST ITEM OF DISCUSSION. UH, THESE ARE VERY LARGE FACILITIES, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. SO A PROVISION THAT SAYS THAT IF THEY'VE BEEN ABANDONED OR UNUSED AFTER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, UH, THE CITY HAS, UH, THE ABILITY TO GO IN AND MAKE SURE THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER REMOVES THE EQUIPMENT, THE SERVERS, THE STUFF INSIDE THE BUILDING WANNA BE CLEAR, NOT TALKING ABOUT REQUIRING THAT THE BUILDING ITSELF BE DEMOLISHED. THAT'S OBVIOUSLY LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES TO BE REPURPOSED. THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE DESTROYED, BUT WE DON'T WANT IT TO FALL BACK ON THE CITY'S DIME IF THERE IS A NUISANCE, A MITIGATION REQUIRED, AND WE'RE ON THE HOOK FOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF ABATEMENT TO CLEAN A SITE. SO THOSE WERE ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT WERE DISCUSSED AT COUNCIL. CAN WE GO BACK TO THE PERFECT, THANK YOU. UM, I SAID I WOULD SPEAK FRANKLY ABOUT WHAT I SEE AS THE PROS AND CONS OF BOTH OF THOSE OPTIONS. SO OPTION ONE, UH, IT CERTAINLY PROVIDES PREDICTABILITY AND CONSISTENCY. IT'S SET IN STONE, IT'S 500 FEET OR WHATEVER THIS COMMISSION ENDS UP RECOMMENDING. 200, 2 50. UM, THEY ARE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM DISTANCES, ABSOLUTE STANDARDS THAT CAN ONLY BE DEVIATED, UH, THROUGH APPROVAL FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. UM, CONS, QUITE FRANKLY, AS MANY DATA CENTERS WILL BE RENDERED NONCONFORMING. SO THERE ARE DATA CENTERS BUILT TODAY. SOME HAVE BEEN OPERATING FOR 20, 25 YEARS, SOME MUCH LESS, UH, THAT THEY HAVE, UH, THAT, UH, ARE LOCATED OR IN MANY CASES SHARE A PROPERTY LINE WITH, WITH RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES, SO MANY WILL BE RENDERED NONCONFORMING. UM, AGAIN, CON, WHEN CONDITIONS ARE MET, IT'S AN APPROVAL. THERE'S NO PUBLIC INPUT, THERE'S NO OPPORTUNITY TO GAUGE WHAT THE PUBLIC FEELS IS OR IS NOT APPROPRIATE BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED TO GO THROUGH A CHANGE OF ZONING PROCESS. OPTION TWO, ZONING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL, YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAILOR STANDARDS TO INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPMENTS. THE IDEA THAT NOT ONE SIZE FITS ALL, UH, YOU CAN CONSIDER UNIQUE PROPERTY RELATED HARDSHIPS IN DETERMINING WHAT CONDITIONS SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT APPLY. UH, THE CONS OF OPTION TWO ARE THAT EVERY DATA CENTER WILL BE RENDERED NON-CONFORMING BECAUSE NONE OF THEM HAVE A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION FOR DATA CENTERS TODAY. SO THIS IS, EVERY DATA CENTER IN SAN ANTONIO IS NON-CONFORMING UPON THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE. AND AGAIN, IT LACKS THE CONSISTENCY AND THE PREDICTABILITY THAT THE INDUSTRY IS LOOKING FOR. NOW, IT'S EVERY CASE IS CUSTOM AND TAILORED, AND WE GOTTA FIGURE IT OUT AS WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. UM, THIS IS A MAP THAT SHOWS WHERE THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS ARE LOCATED. UH, I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE BLURRY FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS EXERCISE. REALLY THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS ON THAT MAP IS THE COLOR. UH, IF IT IS COLORED, UH, THEN IT IS EITHER C3 OR INDUSTRIAL. AND OPTION ONE, YOU HAVE TO WHITTLE DOWN THOSE SITES BASED ON HOW MANY MEET THE CRITERIA, RIGHT? OPTION TWO, WHERE YOU'RE IN THOSE DISTRICTS AND YOU HAVE TO ASK FOR AN S EVERY PARCEL THAT IS COLORED ON THAT MAP, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION WITH THE SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION AND GO THROUGH THE CHANGE OF ZONING PROCESS. UH, AFTER THE FINAL STAKEHOLDER MEETING, THERE WAS ANOTHER, UH, SECOND THREE SIGNATURE MEMO THAT WAS FILED REQUESTING THAT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT REPORT TO CITY COUNCIL AT A B SESSION, OUR PROGRESS, UH, ON THE UDC AMENDMENTS. SO WE PRESENTED THOSE TWO OPTIONS. UH, I WILL, WE DIDN'T GO INTO QUITE THAT GRANULAR LEVEL OF DETAIL. IT WAS GENERALLY PRESENTED AS A S EVERY TIME OR NOT. THAT WAS THE, THE CRUX OF THE CONVERSATION. CERTAINLY VARIOUS COUNCIL MEMBERS SUPPORTED BOTH OPTIONS. UH, BUT AT THAT MEETING WE HAD THE INTRODUCTION OF A THIRD OPTION, UH, THAT I WILL GO OVER NEXT. UH, THIS WAS INTRODUCED BY THE MAYOR. UH, IT IS SIMILAR TO OPTION TWO IN THAT IT REQUIRES A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION FOR EVERY SINGLE, UH, EVERY SINGLE DATA CENTER APPLICATION. IT WASN'T SPECIFIED. WE'RE OPERATING UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT IT IS THE SAME C3 AND INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS. UM, IT ADDS SOME NOISE RESTRICTIONS, UH, THAT DATA CENTERS WOULD BE LIMITED TO 64 DECIBELS DURING THE DAY AND 56 DECIBELS AT NIGHT. JUST TO PUT THAT A LITTLE BIT IN PERSPECTIVE, UH, OTHER COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS ARE ALLOWED 70 DECIBELS DURING THE DAY. INDUSTRIAL OPERATIONS ARE ALLOWED. 72 [02:40:02] RESIDENTIAL USES ARE ALLOWED. 63. EACH OF THOSE NUMBERS DROP BY SEVEN DECIBELS AT NIGHT. SO THESE WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, QUITE A BIT QUIETER THAN OTHER COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL USES. UM, THERE IS STILL A REQUIRED TYPE D LANDSCAPE BUFFER YARD THAT'S A CARRYOVER FROM OPTION ONE. UH, THIS WOULD INTRODUCE A REQUIRED 45 DAY PRE-FILING NOTICE TO THE CITY. SO PRESUMABLY THE, UH, ANTICIPATED DEVELOPER WOULD PUT DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT ON NOTICE THAT WITHIN 45 DAYS THEY INTEND TO SUBMIT A CHANGE OF ZONING APPLICATION. UH, IT WOULD REQUIRE PLANS FOR AT LEAST TWO PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT HEARINGS ONCE THE APPLICATION IS FILED. UH, SEVERAL OF YOU WILL RECALL DURING THE 2022 UDC AMENDMENT UPDATE, WE UPDATED THE CODE TO REQUIRE THAT AN APPLICANT SHOW THE CITY PROOF OF N ATTEMPT TO MEET WITH THE REGISTERED NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. UM, WE CAN'T REQUIRE AN ACTUAL MEETING. WE CAN'T COMPEL ATTENDANCE, BUT WE CAN THEORETICALLY REQUIRE PROOF OF TWO MEETINGS INSTEAD OF ONE. AGAIN, THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO DATA CENTERS, UH, A PROPOSAL THAT WE REQUIRE DATA CENTERS TO DEDICATE TWICE AS MUCH GREEN SPACE AS WAS CONSUMED IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE DATA CENTER. SO IF THE DATA CENTER WAS BUILT ON 50 ACRES, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DEDICATE 100 ACRES OF GREEN SPACE. UM, WE SEE A, WE HAVE A COUPLE CONCERNS WITH THAT PROPOSAL. UH, GREEN SPACE DEDICATION, TY, THAT COMES FROM SUBDIVISION ORDINANCES, NOT TYPICALLY FROM ZONING CODES. UM, I THINK OF GREATER CONCERN IS THIS WOULD BE THE ONLY NON-RESIDENTIAL USE THAT IS REQUIRED TO DO ANY AMOUNT OF GREEN SPACE DEDICATION. UH, WE DO REQUIRE THAT FOR RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION, ONE ACRE PER 75 UNITS. UH, BUT THIS WOULD BE UNIQUE TO DATA CENTERS. THERE'S NO OTHER COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL IMPROVEMENT THAT REQUIRES THAT, UH, THIS PROPOSES RATHER THAN A DISTANCE FROM THE DATA CENTER TO AN INCOMPATIBLE USE. THIS JUST SAYS A 1000 FOOT SETBACK FROM THE PERIMETER OF THE PROPERTY. UH, IT PROPOSES THAT THE CITY REQUIRE AIR QUALITY MONITORING AND REPORTING. WE CERTAINLY CAN REQUIRE AIR QUALITY MONITORING AND REPORTING, BUT WE CANNOT BECOME THE ENTITY THAT MAKES SOMEONE DO ANYTHING IN RESPONSE TO WHAT IS MONITORED AND REPORTED. THAT IS A STATE LEVEL AUTHORITY THAT FALLS AT TCEQ. AGAIN, THERE IS NO OTHER CHANGE OF ZONING, UH, PROCESS THAT REQUIRES THAT PROVISION. UH, IT DOES PROPOSE THAT BACKUP GENERATORS BE ENCLOSED, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, TO DEADEN THE NOISE OF THE GENERATOR. AND THE LAST TWO ARE REQUESTS. THEY ARE NOT MANDATES A REQUEST THAT THE DATA CENTER CONSENT TO RELEASING, UH, HOW MUCH WATER AND ENERGY THEY PLAN TO USE. IT IS A REQUEST ONLY, IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE, UH, ADHERED TO. AND LASTLY, SOME SORT OF, UH, EXPLANATION FROM THE DEVELOPER OF WHAT THEY ENVISION THE COMMUNITY BENEFITS OF THIS DATA CENTER TO BE. UM, AT THE B SESSION MEETING AS WELL, WE HAD THE INTRODUCTION, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, OF AN ALTERNATIVE DEFINITION OF WHAT, UH, OF WHAT A DATA CENTER IS. I KNOW IN EARLIER WORK SESSION DISCUSSIONS WITH THE ZONING COMMISSION, UH, THERE WAS CONCERN THAT THERE MAY BE UNINTENDED CASUALTIES, SOMETHING THAT IS NOT A DATA CENTER, PERHAPS INADVERTENTLY BEING CLASSIFIED AS ONE. UH, WE HAVE REVIEWED THIS AS STAFF. WE DON'T HAVE CONCERNS WITH THIS ALTERNATIVE DEFINITION. UH, WE THINK IT IS VERY CLEAR, AND I'M JUST GONNA READ IT INTO THE RECORD. A DATA CENTER IS A BUILDING OR PREMISE, UH, PREMISES USED PRIMARILY TO HOUSE SERVERS, DATA STORAGE SYSTEMS, AND RELATED EQUIPMENT FOR THE STORAGE, MANAGEMENT AND PROCESSING OF DIGITAL DATA, INCLUDING ENTERPRISE CO-LOCATION, CLOUD COMPUTING, HIGH PERFORMANCE COMPUTING, AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMPUTING FACILITIES. A DATA CENTER DOES NOT INCLUDE A FACILITY USED PRIMARILY TO ROUTE SWITCH OR TRANSMIT VOICE VIDEO OR DATA TRAFFIC IN PROVIDING THAT SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC, SUCH AS CENTRAL OFFICES, MOBILE SWITCHING, SWITCHING CENTERS, AND CABLE HEAD ENDS. THIS EXCLUSION DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY PORTION OF A, OF A FACILITY [02:45:01] LEASED OR MADE AVAILABLE TO A THIRD PARTY FOR DATA STORAGE, CLOUD COMPUTING, AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMPUTING. IT ALSO DOES NOT APPLY TO A SERVER ROOM OR EQUIPMENT ROOM THAT IS ACCESSORY TO AND PRIMARILY SUPPORTS THE ONSITE OPERATIONS OF PRINCIPLE USE ON THE SAME PREMISE. TO THAT END, THE ZONING COMMISSION TODAY IS ASKED TO DETERMINE WHICH OPTION OR THE COMBINATION OF ELEMENTS THEREOF. YOU MAY LIKE ELEMENTS OF OPTION ONE, ELEMENTS OF THE OTHERS, UM, WHAT YOU THINK IS MOST APPROPRIATE TO REGULATE DATA CENTERS. WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION YOU PROVIDE TO US, WE WILL FORWARD THE CITY COUNCIL. UH, THE ITEM IS TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED, UH, TO BE CONSIDERED AT THE OCTOBER 29TH. THAT'S A WEEK FROM THIS THURSDAY THAT A SESSION. UM, AND I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. I'M AVAILABLE FOR DISCUSSION OR FOR QUESTIONS. I KNOW WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF FOLKS TO SIGN UP ON SPEAK ON THIS ITEM AS WELL. THANK YOU, MR. SPARROW. UM, PUBLIC COMMENT PLEASE. FIRST IS CAROLINE MCDONALD, FOLLOWED BY STEPHANIE REYES. AND ONCE AGAIN, JUST AS A REMINDER, UH, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T APPEAR HERE FREQUENTLY, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO USE SOMEONE ELSE'S TIME OR TO GIVE YOUR TIME TO SOMEONE, PLEASE DO SO BEFORE EITHER OF YOU SPEAK. SO IF YOU WANT TO GIVE YOUR TIME TO SOMEONE AND THEY GET CALLED FIRST POP UP, WAVE AT ME AND I WILL ASK YOUR NAME AND YOU CAN GIVE THAT TIME. MS. MCDONALD, MR. CHAIR COMMISSIONERS CAROLINE MCDONALD WITH BROWN AND MCDONALD. UH, 100 NORTHEAST LOOP FOUR 10 HERE ON BEHALF OF, UH, PROPERTY OWNER THAT OWNS 430 ACRES IN DISTRICT FOUR OFF OF, UM, STATE HIGHWAY 16. I AGREE, UH, A HUNDRED PERCENT WITH LOGAN. UM, WE NO DOUBT NEED A MORE ACCURATE DEFINITION OF DATA CENTER RATHER THAN RELYING ON OFFICE DATA PROCESSING AND MANAGEMENT. UM, BUT TO TRIGGER EXCESSIVE REQUIREMENTS WITH EVERY NEW APPLICATION IS BURDENSOME AND IS AN OVERCORRECTION. UM, THEREFORE, I AM HERE TO SUPPORT OPTION ONE OR A VARIATION OF STAFF'S OPTION ONE. OPTION TWO IS WHOLLY INCONSISTENT WITH THE CITY'S UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND HOW WE TREAT ANY OTHER USE. UM, REQUIRING AN SUP IN EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT FROM C3 UP IS MAKING IT THE EQUIVALENT OF A METAL RECYCLING FACILITY, NUCLEAR OR RADIOACTIVE MANUFACTURING AND ARMORY, UM, AND CHEMICAL MANUFACTURING AND PROCESSING. JUST LET THAT SINK IN. UM, IN COMPARISON, SOME I TWO USES THAT DO NOT REQUIRE AN SUP AND ARE PERMITTED BY RIDE. AN I TWO ARE A ROCK CRUSHER AND ASPHALT PRODUCTS MANUFACTURING. SO REQUIRING AN SUP FOR A DATA CENTER IN I ONE I TWO, MI ONE, WHICH IS MY CLIENT'S PROPERTY. AN MI TWO MAKES IT, UH, MORE BURDENSOME THAN THE ROCK CRUSHER. SO I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. I WANTED TO KEEP IT CONCISE, BUT I DO SUPPORT OPTION ONE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. MCDONALD. NEXT, NEXT IS STEPHANIE REYES, FOLLOWED BY ROB KILLEN. GOOD AFTERNOON TURN BUSTAMONTE ZONING COMMISSIONERS. UH, MY NAME IS STEPHANIE REYES. I'M PROUD PRESIDENT AND CEO FOR THE REAL ESTATE COUNCIL OF SAN ANTONIO. WE ARE LOCATED AT 1 0 1 0 1 REUNION PLACE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO. AND I'M HERE TODAY TO URGE ZONING COMMISSION TO SUPPORT THE STAFF PROPOSAL TO ALLOW DATA CENTERS BY RIGHT IN THE C3 AND INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICTS. THE PROPOSAL TO REQUIRE A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION WOULD MAKE ALL EXISTING DATA CENTERS IN THE CITY NON-CONFORMING AND WOULD MAKE IT VERY DIFFICULT TO ATTRACT NEW DATA CENTER DEVELOPMENT TO THE CITY. IT'S BEEN SET OVER AND OVER, BUT I WANNA CONTINUE TO BEAT THAT DRUM. ANYTIME WE WANNA ATTRACT INVESTMENT, THERE HAS TO BE CONSISTENCY AND PREDICTABILITY. THEY WANNA KNOW THE RULES OF THE GAME. UH, THIS WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO OUR LOCAL ECONOMY AND COULD RESULT IN THE LOSS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN, IN TAX REVENUE AND CPS REVENUES AS THEY GIVE 14% OF THEIR GROSS REVENUE TO THE CITY. THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT SPEND MONTHS WORKING WITH STAKEHOLDERS TO DEVELOP OPTION ONE. THEY DID AN AMAZING JOB, UM, WHICH DOES NOT REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE AUTHORIZATION. THE C3 AND INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS ARE APPROPRIATE FOR DATA CENTERS AND CONSISTENT WITH OTHER PERMITTED USES IN THE DISTRICTS. WE ASK THAT THE ZONING COMMISSION RESPECT THE STAKEHOLDER PROCESS AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR OPTION ONE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. REYES. NEXT, NEXT IS ROB KILLEN, FOLLOWED [02:50:01] BY RACHEL HAYNES. GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIRMAN BUSTAMONTE COMMISSIONERS. MY NAME IS ROB KILLEN. I'M AN ATTORNEY OF THE LAW FIRM OF KILLEN GRIFFIN PARAMOUNT. OUR ADDRESS IS 1 0 1 0 1 REUNION PLACE. SAME ADDRESS AS, UH, STEPHANIE JUST SPOKE. WE'RE RIGHT NEXT DOOR. WE'RE NOT IN THE SAME SPACE. , I DO SEE STEPHANIE ALL THE TIME IN THE HALLWAY. UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. I WILL KEEP MY COMMENTS, UH, BRIEF, AT LEAST FOR ME. BUT I WANNA START BY, UH, FIRST RECOGNIZING ALL THE HARD WORK OF, UH, LOGAN SPARROW AND THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, STAFF. THEY'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AS YOU, AS YOU HEARD, A YEAR WORKING ON THIS, WORKING WITH STAKEHOLDERS TO COME UP WITH A SET OF RECOMMENDATIONS. AND YOU HAVE SOME TOUGH DECISIONS AHEAD OF YOU TODAY IN YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO, UH, SEND FORWARD TO CITY COUNCIL. BUT AS A THRESHOLD MATTER, BEFORE WE GET INTO, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION OF OPTION ONE, TWO, OR THREE, AND OPTION ONE IS CLEARLY THE BEST OPTION, BUT AS LOGAN POINTED OUT IN HIS PRESENTATION, REGARDLESS OF WHICH OPTION YOU CHOOSE, SOME DATA CENTERS OR POSSIBLY ALL DATA CENTERS WILL BECOME NON-CONFORMING. MS. REYES SAID IN HER COMMENTS, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC IMPACT. THIS IS AN INVESTMENT IN THE COMMUNITY THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE AND IS BEING MADE ON A DAILY BASIS. EACH OF THESE DATA CENTERS IS WORTH HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. IN THE AGGREGATE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT ARE RISK REGARDLESS OF OPTION ONE OR OPTION TWO, OR GOD FORBID, OPTION THREE. UH, WERE YOU TO CHOOSE THAT. AND SO AS A THRESHOLD MATTER, BEFORE YOU MAKE THAT DECISION, YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THE NON-CONFORMING USE ISSUE THAT WAS DONE WHEN THE UDC WAS FIRST ADOPTED IN APPENDIX D AND YOU SAID, LOOK, WE'RE GONNA PROTECT THOSE EXISTING USES. AND YOU ALSO DID IT WITH METAL RECYCLING FACILITIES WHEN YOU SAID METAL RECYCLING FACILITIES HAD TO HAVE AN S IT'S THE ROBUST NON-CONFORMING RIGHTS THAT GRANDFATHERING LANGUAGE THAT WILL PROTECT THAT INVESTMENT FOR DATA CENTERS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON THE GROUND OR ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED RIGHT NOW. AND SO OUR ASK IS THAT YOU INCLUDE SUCH ROBUST NONCONFORMING USE PROTECTION. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. THANK YOU, MR. KILLEN. NEXT, NEXT IS RACHEL HAYNES. FOLLOWED, FOLLOWED BY DD EZ. MS. HAYNES, HI, GOOD AFTERNOON. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. MY NAME IS RACHEL HAYNES. I'M THE POLICY DIRECTOR AT THE GREATER EDWARDS AQUIFER ALLIANCE. WE'RE AT 1809 BLANCO ROAD. UH, WE WORK FOR THE PRESERVATION AND PROTECTION OF THE EDWARDS AND TRINITY AQUIFERS, THEIR LANDS, WATERSHED SPRINGS, AND ALL OF THOSE OF US WHO DEPEND ON THOSE WATER SUPPLIES. WE WERE INVOLVED ALONG WITH PUBLIC CITIZEN IN THE STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS RUN BY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES THIS SUMMER. ONE OF VERY FEW PRESENT WHO WERE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE INDUSTRY IN SOME FORM AS PART OF THE STAKEHOLDER PROCESS. WE DID NOT AT ANY TIME SUPPORT PROPOSAL ONE AND DO NOT SUPPORT BUY RIGHT PERMITTING FOR DATA CENTERS OR SIMILAR HIGH INTENSITY, HIGH RESOURCE DEMAND INDUSTRIES. WE SUPPORT PROPOSAL TWO. IT PROVIDES THE MOST FLEXIBILITY, THE MOST PROTECTION FOR THE MOST SENSITIVE NEIGHBORHOODS, THE BEST OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC INPUT AND PARTICIPATION, AND THE BEST OPPORTUNITY TO ENSURE THAT RESIDENTS ENERGY, WATER, AND LAND ARE PROTECTED WHILE STILL ALLOWING FOR THE ECONOMIC GROWTH AND KEEPING US OUT OF STATE CROSSHAIRS COUNCIL COULD USE THIS FLEXIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT FACILITIES PLANNING TO LOCATE WITHIN MORE VULNERABLE OR SENSITIVE AREAS OF THE CITY MUST ADHERE TO STRONGER MORE PROTECTIVE REQUIREMENTS. WHILE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL SITES BORDERING OTHER HEAVY INDUSTRIAL SITES SEE FEWER RESTRICTIONS, SPECIAL USE AUTHORIZATION PERMITTING IS CONSIDERED THE BEST PRACTICE FOR DATA CENTER ZONING. SPECIAL USES ARE THOSE THAT ARE CONSIDERED TO HAVE POTENTIALLY GREATER IMPACT ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES OR THE PUBLIC THAN USES PERMITTED BY RIGHT. THEY REFLECT THE CONSIDERED JUDGMENT OF THE COMMUNITY THAT SOME LAND USES MAY HAVE MORE INTENSIVE OR MORE NEGATIVE IMPACTS ON SURROUNDING PROPERTIES REQUIRING PUBLIC INPUT BEFORE RECEIVING APPROVAL. I ALSO NOTE THAT PROPOSAL TWO MEETS THE SPECIFIC REQUEST OF COUNCILMAN GALVAN CCR ASKING FOR CONSIDERATION OF SPECIAL USE PERMITTING, AND IT MEETS THE REQUEST OF THE COUNCIL ON AUGUST 25TH. WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WHATEVER DECISION IS MADE THAT C3 IS STRUCK FROM THE TABLE OF PERMITTED USES. UH, C THREES ARE BUILT TO SERVE RESIDENTIAL AREAS, SO DATA CENTERS IN THESE ZONES ARE LIKELY TO IMPACT NEARBY NEIGHBORHOODS AT A GREATER SCALE THAN THOSE INDUSTRIAL USES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. HAYNES. NEXT, NEXT IS DEI BELMY, FOLLOWED BY EVAN GRAY. GOOD AFTERNOON, DEE TI, UH, CLEAN ENERGY ADVOCATE WITH PUBLIC CITIZEN, UH, 7 0 2 DONALDSON AVENUE. PUBLIC CITIZEN IS A NONPROFIT CONSUMER ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION THAT CHAMPIONS THE PUBLIC INTEREST IN THE HALLS OF POWER. WE DEFEND DEMOCRACY, RESIST CORPORATE POWER, AND FIGHT TO ENSURE THAT GOVERNMENT WORKS FOR THE PEOPLE NOT BIG CORPORATIONS. FOUNDED IN 1971, WE NOW HAVE 1 MILLION MEMBERS AND SUPPORTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. LAST WEEK, PUBLIC CITIZEN, ALONG WITH THE GREATER EDWARDS AQUIFER ALLIANCE AND DISTRICT SIX COUNCILMEN, RICK ALVO HOSTED A TOWN HALL ON THE FUTURE OF DATA CENTER DEVELOPMENT IN SAN ANTONIO. OVERWHELMINGLY, THE ATTENDEES WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE DATA CENTERS THAT WERE ALREADY [02:55:01] LOCATED NEAR THEM. ONE RESIDENT SAID SHE HASN'T SEEN THE NIGHT SKY IN A COUPLE OF YEARS BECAUSE OF THE LIGHT POLLUTION THAT COMES FROM A DATA CENTER NEAR HER HOME. NOW THERE'S ANOTHER DATA CENTER THAT IS BEING BUILT DOWN THE STREET WITH A CONSTANT HUMMING NOISE COMING FROM IT. I DON'T PROPOSE TO SPEAK FOR, UH, THESE RESIDENTS, THIS RESIDENT HERE, BUT I THOUGHT I'D SHARE IT WITH YOU BECAUSE THIS IS A BIG CONCERN COMING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UH, DURING THE STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS, UH, REALLY PEOPLE FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD WERE NOT ABLE TO MAKE THE MEETINGS. SINCE MAY PUBLIC CITIZEN HAS JOINED SOUTHWEST WORKERS UNION IN, UH, TALKING TO NEIGHBORS IN DISTRICT SIX WHO LIVED THERE AND TALKING TO THEM ABOUT DATA CENTERS AND THE IMPACTS THEY HAVE ON NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES, ONE OF THE IMMEDIATE THINGS THEY, THE MEMBERS SAY IS THEY NEVER KNEW THE DATA CENTER WAS BEING BUILT. BY THE TIME THEY FOUND OUT DATA DATA CENTER WAS BEING BUILT NEAR THEIR HOMES, THERE WAS ALREADY CONSTRUCTION HAPPENING. PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A SAY ON WHAT IS BEING BUILT NEAR THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS. IF THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR NEGATIVE IMPACTS FROM LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENTS LIKE DATA CENTERS, WE HEAR THIS FEEDBACK HERE. WE HEAR IT FROM ALL OVER THE STATE. THIS IS WHY, UH, OPTION TWO SPECIFIC USE PERMITTING FOR DATA CENTERS IS NECESSARY BECAUSE PRIOR TO THE PERMIT BEING GRANTED, THE PUBLIC HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE INPUT TO WEIGH IN ON CONDITIONS AND SAFEGUARDS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO PROTECTING THEIR FAMILY AND NEIGHBORS. IT WOULD GIVE FOLKS THE CHANCE TO RAISE CONCERNS ABOUT POTENTIAL NOISE, SMELLS, AND POLLUTION THAT AFFECT THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE. DATA CENTERS ARE TYPICALLY OUTFITTED WITH DIESEL BACKUP GENERATORS CAPABLE OF SUPPLYING FULL POWER DURING PLANNED TIME. THANK YOU, MS. PALOMAS. I'M SORRY I THAT'S YOUR TIME. YOU, EVAN GRAY FOLLOWED BY BILL KAUFMAN. THAT TIME I DIDN'T HEAR IT AT ALL. HADDY. GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS. I'M EVAN GRAY AND OWNER OF BAYER DATA CENTER. FOR 25 YEARS, WE'VE HOSTED SERVERS FOR LOCAL BUSINESSES HERE IN SAN ANTONIO WITHOUT A SINGLE COMPLAINT FROM A NEIGHBOR. THANK YOU TO STAFF AND EVERYONE HERE TODAY. I'D AGREE THAT NEIGHBORS DESERVE TO KNOW WHAT'S BEING BUILT NEAR THEIR HOMES. UH, ONE SUGGESTION ON COUNCILMAN WHITE'S PROPOSED DEFINITION, IT NAMES CO-LOCATION AND IT'S ONLY EXCEPTION IS A SERVER ROOM THAT SUPPORTS A BUSINESS ON THE SAME PREMISES THAT COULD CATCH SMALL OPERATIONS LIKE OURS, WHICH IT'S, UH, TWO ROOMS, ABOUT 3% OF AN 80,000 SQUARE FOOT COMMERCIAL BUILDING WITH NO WATER USED FOR COOLING. AND IT'S ACTUALLY ABOUT ONLY HALF THE SIZE OF THE ROOM THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY STANDING IN. SO WHICHEVER DEFINITION YOU RECOMMEND, PLEASE CONSIDER ADDING A SMALL SCALE EXCEPTION BASED ON SIZE OR SHARE OF THE BUILDING, NO MATTER WHO THE CUSTOMERS ARE. THAT KEEPS THE RULES AIMED AT FACILITIES PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WORRIED ABOUT. AND, UH, WE WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO DISCUSS OR HELP OUT AS Y'ALL FINISH THIS UP. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU MR. GREG. NEXT BILL KAUFMAN, FOLLOWED BY TRAVIS WHITAKER. JUST, UH, THANK YOU. I'M BILL KAUFMAN, UH, WITH THE KAUFMAN GROUP AND, UM, I DO REPRESENT SEVERAL DATA CENTERS AND, UH, I'M CERTAINLY NOT A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT, BUT I KNOW A LITTLE ABOUT A LOT. AND I WANNA ADDRESS ONE ELEMENT OF OPTION ONE, WHICH IS THE, UH, DEVELOPMENT CRITERIA OF THE 500 FEET FROM A STRUCTURE OR GENERATOR TO A RESIDENTIAL USE OR A, OR SCHOOL OR A DAYCARE CENTER. AND I WANNA PUT IN PERSPECTIVE, WHAT DOES 500 FEET MEAN. WE THINK IT'S EXCESSIVE. I'VE A ASKED STAFF TO PUT UP, THIS IS THE, UH, ROB KILLEN MEMORIAL RESEARCH PROJECT WHERE HE WENT THROUGH THE CODE. MR. KELLEN, YOU'RE STILL WITH US, CORRECT? . ALRIGHT. WHEN HE WENT THROUGH THE CODE AND, UH, HE WENT THROUGH THE CODE TO FIND OUT WHAT ARE OTHER SETBACKS FOR OTHER USES THAT YOU'RE USED TO. AND YOU CAN SEE IT HERE, UH, YOU, I'VE HIGHLIGHTED SOME OF THEM. OUTDOOR AMUSEMENT PARKS, 30 FEET GO-KART TRACKS, 30 FEET RACING TRACKS, 30 FEET LIVE ENTERTAINMENT, 30 FEET ROCK CRUSHER. YOU HEARD ABOUT ROCK CRUSHERS. 30 FEET GUN RANGES, 30 FEET. THE NEXT PAGE, PLEASE. I COULDN'T GET THROUGH ALL THIS IN TWO MINUTES, BUT I'M GONNA DO MY BEST. UH, HELIPORTS AUTO MANUFACTURERS, ASPHALT PRODUCTION BULK PLANTS, THEY'RE ALL AT 50 FEET SETBACKS THAT GOES DOWN THE LIST. METAL FORGING, RENDERING PLANTS, RECYCLING FACILITIES, ALL AT, UH, 50 FEET. OFFICE BUILDINGS, HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS AT [03:00:01] 65 FEET, UH, ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS, UM, AND VARYING BUT, UH, 45 FEET, SAND AND GRAVEL DISTRICTS ARE. SO THE POINT IS, THESE ARE ALL USES CURRENTLY ALLOWED WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTIONS, WITHOUT SPECIAL USE AUTHORIZATIONS THAT REQUIRE MINIMAL SETBACKS. SORRY SIR. THAT'S TWO MINUTES. 500 FEET. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. TRAVIS WHITAKER, FOLLOWED BY JAMES MCKNIGHT. TRAVIS WHITAKER FOR BEAR DATA CENTER. I'VE GOT, UH, NOTHING ELSE TO ADD. , THANK YOU. THANKS SIR. WHITAKER, THAT'S, UH, THAT'S THE KIND OF COMMENT I LIKE. UM, QUICK. UM, ALRIGHT. MR. JAMES CK MCKNIGHT FOLLOWED BY DALE HANSON. ALRIGHT, MR. HANSON. MR. MCKNIGHT LOSES OUT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY. MY NAME IS DALE HANSON. I'M WITH THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHER OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS LOCAL UNION 60 RIGHT HERE IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. OUR ADDRESS IS 35 18 NORTH LOOP, 1604 EAST SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. ZIP CODE 7 8 2 4 7. I STAND IN SUPPORT OF PROPOSITION, UH, OF THE FIRST, UH, AMENDMENT PROPOSITION, WHATEVER YOU WANNA SAY. FIRST DRAFT, EXCUSE ME, KIND OF ON THE SPOT HERE. SO I'M KIND OF FLYING BY THE SEAT OF MY PANTS HERE. UM, I'M COMING AT IT FROM SOMEONE THAT ACTUALLY THAT'S ACTUALLY BUILT A DATA CENTER WITH MY HANDS. AND I WANT TO REALLY HIGHLIGHT THE, THE JOBS ASPECT THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH DATA CENTERS. NOW DATA CENTERS ARE ROUTINELY DISMISSED AS SAYING, OH, THEY ONLY GENERATE A TEMPORARY SET OF JOBS. RIGHT? AND IN THEORY, THAT'S TRUE IN CONSTRUCTION, THAT IS A SERIES OF TEMPORARY GIVES. HOWEVER, I WOULD SAY THAT ANY DATA CENTER THAT IS BUILT, THERE'S USUALLY ONE CAMPUS, THERE'S A COLO, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT AREAS. AND YOU CAN BE BUILDING A SERIES OF DATA CENTERS FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. ONE DATA CENTER CAMPUS CAN KEEP HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF BLUE COLLAR WORKERS EMPLOYED FOR MANY, MANY YEARS WITH SOME DEGREE OF CONSISTENCY. AND IF YOU DO ANYTHING TO DISINCENTIVIZE A DATA CENTER, BUILD OUT THAT IS HARMING THE ECONOMIC PROSPECTS OF A BUNCH OF BLUE COLLAR WORKERS, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, MANY OF OUR MEMBERS WHO HAPPEN TO BE IMMIGRANTS. AND SO JUST AS A BLUE COLLAR WORKER MYSELF, UH, WE'RE TRYING TO ELEVATE THE CONDITION OF ANY AND ALL WORKERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE IN THE SKILLED TRADES, ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, PIPE FITTERS, ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. AND WE BELIEVE THAT, UH, THE FIRST PROPOSAL IS THE MOST JUSTIFIABLE. THAT'S REALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU MR. HANSEN. THANK YOU. NEXT. MIKE WEST, FOLLOWED BY MICHAEL HAYWARD AFTERNOON. UH, UNFORTUNATELY I WAS NOT PRIVY, UH, TO THE PRIOR MEETINGS, BUT, UH, ASKED ON BE MR. WEST, I'M SORRY, SORRY, YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND GIVE US YOUR ADDRESS. YES, SIR. I WAS GETTING TO THAT. UH, MIKE WEST, UH, 36 30 BELGIUM LANE, LOCAL 1 42. UM, CURRENTLY A MEMBER OF, UH, SAN ANTONIO. AGAIN, LOCAL 1 42, DIRECTOR OF SERVICE FOR A LOCAL MECHANICAL CONTRACTOR. I'VE SPENT 22 YEARS SERVING AND 42 YEARS OF MY LIFE BEING WITNESS TO THE TRADES. UH, APPRECIATE THE FLOOR FOR A QUICK, SHORT AND SWEET, NOT HERE TO PROVIDE A SOLUTION. AS IT SEEMS LIKE WE ALREADY HAVE MANY OPTIONS. UH, WE ARE IN SUPPORT OF, UH, OPTION ONE OR SOMETHING THEREABOUT. UH, THIS IS A DIRECT CORRELATION FOR DATA CENTER NEEDS OF, UH, THE GROWTH OF OUR COMMUNITY AND NEED FOR SUPPORT OF OUR IT TECHNOLOGY AND, UH, EVERYDAY NEEDS OF THE MODERN CONSUMER OF, UH, EVERYTHING THAT YOU HOLD IN YOUR HANDS, UH, TECHNOLOGY WISE. UH, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE PROS THOUGH. UM, MOST, MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT'S, UM, ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS FOR HERE WHEN MY BROTHER'S IN THE ROOM IS JOB CREATIONS. UH, TO NAME A FEW, NOT ONLY THE, UH, OPERATIONS INSIDE THESE DATA CENTERS, BUT THE INDIVIDUALS THAT BUILD AND MAINTAIN THEIR PERFORMANCE. UM, THIS IS WHERE THE LOCAL UNIONS AND MECHANICAL TRADES, UH, STRIVE AND CONTINUE TO TRY TO PROVIDE FOR THESE. UM, THIS TIME IS GOING QUICK. , I WILL GIVE, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU 30 MORE SECONDS 'CAUSE I TOOK SOME OF YOUR TIME. OKAY, NO WORRIES. I, UH, I'LL JUST TOUCH ON THE LAST POINTS I HAD. I WILL NOTE THAT HAVING WORKED, UH, AT AND HAVING A CREW OF SIX PLUS GUYS WORKING AT ANY GIVEN DATA CENTER, WHETHER IT'S MICROSOFT, AMAZON, OR ANY OF THE GIVE, UH, GIVEN ABOVE EVERY DAY, THE UTMOST CARE IS GIVEN, PROVIDED AND MAINTAINED BY THE DATA CENTER PERSONNEL AND SERVICE PROVIDED WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH AND SAFETY, EVEN MORE SO THAN THE HEALTHCARE AND GOVERNMENT, UH, WORK THAT WE ALSO PROVIDE, INCLUDING CONTAINMENT OF FLUIDS AND ENVIRONMENTAL INTERACTIONS. THE, UH, THE UTMOST CARE IS GIVEN PROCEDURES, UM, ANYTHING AND ABOVE. I ALSO THINK THAT THE DATA CENTER DEFINITION, UH, NEEDS A LITTLE RES, UH, REVISION AS, UH, IF WE ALL LOOK [03:05:01] CLOSE ENOUGH, WE ALL HAVE 'EM IN OUR BACKYARDS. UM, LITTLE EIGHT BY 12 BUILDINGS WITH A COUPLE, UH, UNITS ON THE SIDE THAT, UM, ARE PROVIDING YOUR DATA, YOUR INTERNET, YOUR WHATEVER INTERNET SERVICE, UM, CELL PHONE, ET CETERA. SO I WILL LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANK Y'ALL. THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. WEST. NEXT AND FINALLY, MICHAEL HAYWARD. GOOD AFTERNOON ZONING COMMISSIONERS. UH, MY NAME IS MICHAEL HAYWARD, RANK AND FILE MEMBER WITH THE UNITED ASSOCIATION OF PLUMBERS AND PIPE FITTERS, AS WELL AS HVAC SERVICE TECHNICIANS OUT OF THE LOCAL 1 42, UH, HERE IN SAN ANTONIO AT 36 30 BELGIUM LANE. I COME TO SPEAK TO YOU TODAY TO EXPRESS MY SUPPORT FOR THE PROPOSED UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENTS FOR OPTION ONE ONLY. UH, ESTABLISHING A CLEAR PREDICTABLE ZONING REGULATIONS FOR ONLY THE NEW DATA CENTERS IN SAN ANTONIO WITH CONSIDERATION OF THE CONTINUANCE AND OPERATION AND VARIANCES FOR, UH, SPECIFIC AND SPECIFICALLY THE MODIFICATION OF THE SETBACK REGULATIONS OF THE MANY DATA CENTERS THAT ALREADY EXIST AND HAVE BEEN OPERATING FOR YEARS THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT. UH, IMPLEMENTING A STRUCTURED FRAMEWORK LIKE OPTION A IS A VITAL STEP FORWARD FOR OUR CITY'S ECONOMIC FUTURE AND COMMUNITY WELLBEING. ESTABLISHING CLEAR BY RIGHT RULES WITH STRICT GUARDRAILS PROVIDES EXACTLY THE KIND OF REGULATORY CERTAINTY NEEDED TO ATTRACT HIGH TECH INVESTMENT AND HIGH PAYING JOBS TO SAN ANTONIO BY EXPLICITLY REQUIRING A 500 FOOT BUFFER ZONE IS A LITTLE BIT HARSH, BUT HAVING A BUFFER ZONE WOULD PROTECT OUR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS. THIS PRO THIS PROPOSAL SMARTLY PROTECTS THOSE AREAS FROM INDUSTRIAL FOOTPRINTS, NOISE AND TRAFFIC WITHOUT CHOKING OFF ECONOMIC GROWTH. FURTHERMORE, PROACTIVELY PROHIBITING THESE FACILITIES OVER THE EDWARDS AQUIFER RECHARGED, UH, ZONE DEMONSTRATES A COMMENDABLE COMMITMENT TO THE ENVIRONMENTAL STEWARDSHIP. THIS FRAMEWORK PROVES THAT SAN ANTONIO CAN BE FORWARD-THINKING, A FORWARD-THINKING TECH HUB THAT BOOSTS OUR LOCAL ECONOMY ALSO WHILE PROVIDING ADDITIONAL JOBS FOR SAN ANTONIO LOCAL WORKERS, WHILE FIERCELY PROTECTING ITS NATURAL RESOURCES AND RESIDENTS QUALITY OF LIFE. I URGE THE COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL TO APPROVE THE SENSIBLE PROACTIVE REGULATIONS OF OPTION A WITH MODIFICATION AS A RANK AND FILE MEMBER OF THE UNION WHO MAKES A LIVING WITH THE CONSTRUCTION OF DATA CENTER WORK AS WELL AS MANY OTHER, UH, COMMERCIAL WORK. I WORK IN THE HVAC SYSTEMS. THAT WOULD BE WHERE THE MAJORITY OF THE WATER IS USED. THE SYSTEM, THE SYSTEMS IN USE IN THE SAN ANTONIO AREA ARE CLOSED LOOP SYSTEMS. THANK YOU MR. HAYWARD. THAT'S YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. ALRIGHT. I AM NOT GIVING MR. SPARROW ANY REBUTTAL 'CAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARY. UM, AND WE'RE JUST GONNA OPEN THIS UP, UH, TO QUESTIONS FROM OUR COMMISSIONERS, UH, IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER BECAUSE THIS IMPACTS ALL OF US POTENTIALLY, UM, FOR THOSE MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE. UH, THIS IS GONNA BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'VE SEEN IN OTHER CASES. UH, WE WILL HAVE, UH, TWO ROUNDS OF QUESTIONS AS IS TYPICAL. AND THEN WE WILL HAVE ONE ROUND OF DISCUSSION AND ONLY THEN WILL THE FLOOR BE OPENED FOR A MOTION. UM, THAT'S BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NOT, THIS IS NOT QUITE AS STRAIGHTFORWARD AS SOME OF THE CASES WE HAVE WHERE THERE MIGHT BE ONE OR TWO OR AS MANY AS THREE OR SO OPTIONS. UH, INSTEAD, AS YOU ALL I THINK KNOW THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL RAISED, UH, WITH RESPECT TO THESE POTENTIAL UDC AMENDMENTS. UH, THAT BEING SAID, THE FLOOR IS NOW OPEN FOR QUESTIONS. WE ARE GOING TO GO SIPES TO LO PANA TONA HOSA ENDING WITH ME FIRST ROUND. THEN WE WILL GO LO TO SIPES PANA ENDING WITH ME 'CAUSE I'M THE CHAIR. UM, ALRIGHT, SO, ALRIGHT. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, QUESTION FOR, I SEE LOGAN ALREADY GETTING UP. I WAS GONNA DO SOMEONE NO, JUST KIDDING. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. UM, COULD YOU GO BACK TO THE SLIDE THAT HAD THE, UH, OPTIONS BY, UH, MARK WHITE AND, UM, AND OUR AND MAYOR. YEAH. MAYOR ORTIZ JONES. AND THEN THE DEFINITION, I'M, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, UM, COULD YOU EXPLAIN EXCLUSION ONE AND I GUESS WHAT I, WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS IT, IT, IT SEEMS LIKE, OKAY, WELL THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF A DATA CENTER, BUT THEN EXCLUDING, YOU KNOW, ONE, BUT THEN THERE'S A SECOND EXCLUSION TO THAT EXCLUSION. I'M TRYING TO, I'M TRYING TO, CAN YOU JUST REWORD THAT PLEASE? SO, AS, AS I UNDERSTAND, SO YOU MAY RECALL THE DISCUSSION WE HAD, UH, SEVERAL MEETINGS AGO IN THE TOBIN ROOM, I BELIEVE IT WAS COMMISSIONER HUEY HAD RAISED CONCERN THAT, [03:10:01] UH, CELLULAR TELEPHONE INTERNET, UH, PROVIDERS MAY INADVERTENTLY GET CAUGHT UP IN THE DEFINITION OF A DATA CENTER. SO PART ONE OF THAT FIRST EXCLUSION IS TO CLARIFY THAT IF YOU ARE PRIMARILY IN THE ROUTING OR THE SWITCHING, OR THE TRANSMITTING A VOICE OF IT, YOU'RE NOT A DATA CENTER. PART TWO OF EXCLUSION ONE SAYS, BUT IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE FACILITIES AND YOU LEASE A WHOLE BUNCH OF SPACE TO A DATA CENTER, THAT COULD STILL BE CONSIDERED ONE. SO IF ONE DAY SPECTRUM GOT INTO THE DATA CENTER GAME, THEIR FACILITIES, IF THEY'RE USED AS A DATA CENTER, WOULD BE CONSIDERED ONE. OKAY. IS THAT HELPFUL ENOUGH? YES, IT ACTUALLY IS VERY HELPFUL. UM, WE MAY, IF WE, IF WE ENTERTAIN THAT OPTION, WE MAY WANNA REWORD THAT IN A DIFFERENT MANNER. I, I DO. IF I CAN QUICKLY, JUST BECAUSE IT MAY, UH, HELP WITH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT COULD BE FORTHCOMING, WE ARE STILL GOING TO APPLY, UH, WHAT IS IN CODIFIED AND HAS BEEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME IN THE UDC ABOUT WHAT IS A PRIMARY USE OF THE PROPERTY. UH, THE EXAMPLE I'VE USED BEFORE IS JUST NORTH OF HERE. UTSA IS DOWNTOWN CAMPUS. THEY HAVE A DATA CENTER LAB. THE PRIMARY USE OF THAT PROPERTY IS NOT A DATA CENTER. THE PRIMARY USE OF THAT PROPERTY IS A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY. SAME THING IF USAA HAS, UH, EQUIPMENT ON SITE, THEY HAVE ROOMS WHERE THEY DO DATA PROCESSING. THE PRIMARY USE OF USAA'S OFFICE IS A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE, NOT A DATA CENTER. SO WE, WE'VE, I DON'T THINK HISTORICALLY WE HAVE STRUGGLED WITH DETERMINING WHAT THE PRIMARY USE OF THE PROPERTY IS. I DON'T THINK WE'LL START STRUGGLING IF WE MAKE A DECISION THAT SOMEBODY THINKS IS REALLY OFF THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT, HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO OVERTURN THE STAFF'S DECISION. SO JUST IN CASE THAT, UH, PROVIDES ANY HELPFUL CONTEXT AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH QUESTIONS. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. AND, AND THE SECOND QUESTION THAT I HAD FOR YOU AS WELL WAS, UM, I'M LOOKING FOR WHERE, OKAY. YEAH. UH, POWER GENERATION OVER THE EDWARDS AQUIFER, UM, WITHOUT GETTING INTO CONCERNS THAT I HAVE, UM, IS, UM, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IS DATA CENTERS ARE MOVING, UH, UM, A LOT TOWARDS HAVING MORE ONSITE POWER GENERATION. WOULD THERE, WOULD THERE BE A WAY OR, OR TO SOMEHOW IDENTIFY, AND MAYBE THAT IS WITH THE, THE S DESIGNATION, I DON'T KNOW YET. UM, IS, IS THERE A WAY TO IDENTIFY IN THE DATA CENTER EITHER DEFINITION, WHETHER IT CONTAINS ONSITE POWER GENERATION OR NOT, OR, I'M THINKING OUT LOUD. I KNOW IT MAKES NO SENSE. PROBABLY IT'S ABOUT, IT MAKES AS MUCH SENSE AS MARK WHITE, UNLESS, UNLESS WE ADDED SOMETHING TO THE DEFINITION THAT SAID WITH OR WITHOUT ONSITE POWER GENERATION. BUT I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS A PRESENCE OF A GENERATOR OR A SERIES OF GENERATORS, THE PRIMARY USE OF THE PROPERTY IS STILL THE DATA CENTER. AGREED. BUT WHAT I'M, I'M, I'M TRYING TO SEPARATE. WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS SEPARATE BETWEEN, UM, EMERGENCY GENERATORS AND ONES THAT USE, UM, ONSITE POWER GENERATION AS CONTINUOUS. SO THERE IS A ROOM FULL OF INDUSTRY EXPERTS HERE THAT CAN PROBABLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION BETTER. UH, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY SAFE TO SAY THAT VERY FEW DATA CENTERS ARE DESIGNED WITH THE INTENT OF HAVING TO POWER THEMSELVES ON GENERATORS ALL THE TIME. I WOULD SAY IN SAN ANTONIO. IN, IN SAN ANTONIO? YES. WHAT, WHAT I'M, YEAH. AGREED. UM, I AM TRYING TO FIND WHO WOULD BE AN YOU ALRIGHT. LOOKING, WHO WOULD BE AN EXPERT ON, IS IT MR. WHITAKER? ARE YOU COMING, YOU VOLUNTEERING? IS THAT WHAT I SEE? ALRIGHT. YEAH, HE'S FINALLY GOT SOMETHING. I MEAN, I'M, I'M PROBABLY GONNA GIVE HIM A COUPLE MORE MINUTES. 'CAUSE MR. SPARROW ATE SOME OF HIS TIME. YEAH. AND, AND WHAT I'M REFERRING TO IS, IS, UM, A REPORT ISSUED TO CONGRESS BACK IN SEPTEMBER THAT SAID THAT THE GROWTH OF DATA CENTER ONSITE POWER GENERATION WAS IN TEXAS, ANTICIPATED TO GROW FROM LIKE, SAY 15% TO 30% OF NEWER FACILITIES. AND I'M JUST CURIOUS, IS IS THAT CORRECT? OR, OR, OR HOW DO Y'ALL SEE IT? YES. UM, AS [03:15:01] A DATA CENTER OWNER, MYSELF, A VERY SMALL ONE, WE DO NOT DO ANY TYPE OF POWER GENERATION ON SITE. THAT BEING SAID, WE DO HAVE A BACKUP GENERATOR. WHAT REALLY DIFFERENTIATES BETWEEN THE TWO OUTSIDE OF, YOU KNOW, SIZE, NOISE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE IS JUST OVERALL USAGE. WE USE IT IN BACKUP SCENARIOS. AREAS WHERE, OR SCENARIOS WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE LOST CPS POWER THAT REALLY DEFINES, YOU KNOW, THE BACKUP USE CASE VERSUS WHAT YOU WERE DISCUSSING THERE, WHICH IS 24 7 ONSITE POWER GENERATION. A LOT OF THOSE FACILITIES, UM, ARE BUILDING THOSE ONSITE POWER BECAUSE OF THE, UH, LEAD TIME THAT IT TAKES TO GET THAT AMOUNT, SHEER AMOUNT OF POWER CONNECTED TO THE GRID. SO THEY'RE USING THAT AS A WAY TO, UM, BASICALLY GET THAT POWER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. SO IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT, I'D SAY A, A PROBABLY SOLID WAY OF LOOKING AT IT IS JUST BACKUP POWER BEING USED IN LIMITED CAPACITIES VERSUS BEING RUN 24 7 365. WE ALSO HAVE REPRESENTATIVES FROM CPS, JUST SO YOU KNOW. OKAY. . THEY HAVEN'T SPOKEN YET AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO, BUT I'M JUST POINTING IT OUT. ALRIGHT. NO, I THINK, I THINK, UM, PROBABLY ON THE SECOND ROUND I'LL HAVE MY QUESTIONS MORE CLEAR IN MY MIND, BUT THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UH, NEXT COMMISSIONER KELLY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, I, UH, HAVE A QUESTION FOR LOGAN. I GUESS, UH, I'D LIKE TO STEP BACK A LITTLE BIT AND MAYBE GET OUR ARMS AROUND THE MAGNITUDE OF THE PROBLEM. I GUESS, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE HORROR STORIES, IF THEY CAN BE CHARACTERIZED AS THAT, OF THE REALLY LARGE MEGA INSTALLATIONS. THOSE ARE KIND OF FEWER AND FAR BETWEEN, I THINK, BUT I'M SURE, I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE MORE COMING IN THE FUTURE, APPARENTLY. BUT IF, COULD YOU KIND OF GIVE US A KIND OF A BALLPARK IDEA OF HOW MANY OF THE REALLY LARGE MEGA DATA CENTERS DO WE HAVE OR HAVE PLANNED VERSUS JUST SMALLER FACILITIES THAT NOW FALL UNDER THAT CATEGORIZATION THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE DON'T HAVE THE IMPACT THAT THE BIG ONES WOULD? UM, I GUESS IT CERTAINLY DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR DEFINITION OF MEGA IS, WHAT IT, WHAT CONSTITUTES A HYPERSCALE. I CAN TELL YOU THAT WITHIN CITY LIMITS, WE HAVE, I BELIEVE IT'S 28 OR 29 DATA CENTERS THAT ARE OPERATING. UM, AGAIN, I'M, I'M HESITANT TO SAY HOW MANY ARE HYPERSCALE BECAUSE I THINK THAT MEANS A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE. BUT I MEAN, WE, WE HAVE DATA CENTERS OF THE, THE GENTLEMAN THAT SPOKE EARLIER, HIS, THE ONE ON THEIR PROPERTY IS 2,500 SQUARE FEET. I MEAN, THAT'S TINY. YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IT WAS THERE. UM, I VISITED A FACILITY OUT OFF LOOP 1604. THAT WAS, I MEAN, IT WAS BIG, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HUNDREDS OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET BILL, HOW MANY 200, 250,000 SQUARE FEET. AND IT WAS INTENDED TO BE ONE OF MULTIPLE BUILDINGS PHASED TO ULTIMATELY BE BUILT OUT. SO YOU'RE TALKING, YOU KNOW, MILLION SQUARE FEET OF TOTAL TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE AT BUILD OUT. UM, YOU KNOW, WE CERTAINLY HAVE A LOT OF OTHER DATA CENTERS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT IN THE UNINCORPORATED PARTS OF BEXAR COUNTY, YOU KNOW, GOING OUT TO MEDINA COUNTY WHERE LAND USE REGULATIONS ARE LOOSER OR DON'T EXIST IN THE CASE OF ZONING. UM, BUT WE HAVE A PRETTY HEALTHY MIX OF SMALL AND LARGE FACILITIES IN TOWN. OKAY. I, I THINK THAT HELPS TO THE QUESTION, I AM JUST TRYING TO WRAP MY MIND AROUND HOW BIG THIS ISSUE REALLY IS FOR THE OVERALL CITY AND, YOU KNOW, THE IMPACTS AND, AND THE COMMUNITY. UH, BECAUSE I, OBVIOUSLY, THE SMALLER FACILITIES THAT, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY HAVEN'T EVEN PAID ATTENTION TO 'EM, UH, BEING DATA CENTERS, THOSE ARE NOT GONNA BE A BIG ISSUE, I DON'T THINK, OR AT LEAST NOT A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE. BUT THE MEGA SCALE TYPE FACILITIES, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE GONNA DRAW CONCERNS FROM THE COMMUNITY AND HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, NOISE IMPACTS AND SO FORTH. IF, IF IT'S AT ALL HELPFUL TO YOUR INITIAL QUESTION, YOU KNOW, I I CERTAINLY, THERE'S A DISCUSSION ON WATER AND ENERGY AND WE'LL LET, LIKE I SAID, WE'LL LET SAWS AND CPS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THE EXPERTS IN THOSE REALMS. WE'LL LET THEM DEAL WITH WATER AND, AND ELECTRICITY. NOISE TENDS TO BE THE MAIN THING THAT CONCERNS PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF WATER AND ENERGY. AND, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED, I VISITED A SITE, THE NOISE COMES FROM THE GENERATORS. YOU KNOW, IN AN IDEAL WORLD, THE GENERATORS ARE NOT RUNNING ALL THE [03:20:01] TIME. YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE POWER. CERTAINLY THERE ARE BACKUP SYSTEMS WHERE GENERATORS TURN ON. THE MORE GENERATORS THAT TURN ON, THE MORE, THE LOUDER IT IS. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE, THERE ARE PRACTICAL CHALLENGES IN MEASURING THE NOISE THAT COME FROM THESE FACILITIES. WHEN I VISITED THE SITE, UH, CERTAINLY AT VARIOUS DISTANCES, YOU COULD HEAR THE GENERATORS THE FURTHER YOU GOT AWAY. I MENTIONED AT 300 FEET, IT WAS PRETTY QUIET, BUT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO TAKE AN ACCURATE MEASUREMENT. SOMETIMES YOU'VE GOT TRAFFIC FROM LOOP 1604, YOU'VE GOT PLANES FROM JBSA FLYING OVERHEAD, IT, IT, IT ALL MIXES TOGETHER. UH, BUT NOISE IS DEFINITELY THE, THE COMMON NUISANCE THAT WE HEAR. AND I THINK THAT'S, UH, ABSOLUTELY THE CASE. UH, A LOT OF TIMES FROM MY PAST HISTORY AT TXDOT, PEOPLE HAVE A MISPERCEPTION ABOUT NOISE. THEY THINK YOU CAN PLANT SOME TREES AND IF YOU DON'T SEE THE NOISE GENERATOR, YOU DON'T HEAR AS MUCH NOISE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, OBJECTIVELY IS NOT THE CASE. BUT, UH, SO ANYWAY, THAT WOULD FACTOR INTO WHAT'S REASONABLE DISTANCE TO BE SET BACK FOR THE FACILITY. BUT, UH, I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR THE MOMENT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER KELLY. COMMISSIONER SUP. OKAY. UH, I SAY I TOOK THE SAME TOUR THAT YOU DID AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS PROBABLY 2 53 FEET. COMMISSIONER, ARE YOU USING YOUR MICROPHONE? I'M SORRY. ALRIGHT, SO I'M SO SORRY. I HAVE TO, CAN'T TALK WITH MY HAND ON THAT AT THE SAME TIME. UM, SO YES, UH, I'M UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM AND, UH, SEE THAT, UM, COULD I ASK YOU TO PUT UP THE MAP THAT YOU HAD UP EARLIER? SURE. SO, UH, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE PRETTY SMALL. YEAH. BUT GENERALLY IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, MOST OF THAT STUFF'S MUCH FURTHER ON THAT OUTSKIRTS. MM-HMM . OF THE GROWTH OF THE CITY NOT REALLY GONNA BE IMPACTFUL TO THE EXISTING NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THEN IF YOU CAN'T FIND A SITE, YOU'RE GOING TO THE COUNTY, UM, IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. UM, THE NON-CONFORMING ISSUE, I, I THINK MY, ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS FOR ME IS THE PREDICTABILITY AND THE CONSISTENCY SO THEY, UNDER ANYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE DEALING WITH. UH, SOME QUESTIONS. UM, THE FOOTAGE MEASURED FROM THE, TO THE PROPERTY LINE, IS IT, THERE'S TALK ABOUT RESIDENTIAL OR RESIDENTIAL USE. UH, THAT RESIDENTIAL IS PRETTY WIDE. UH, IS THAT MULTIFAMILY SINGLE FAMILY? IS IT THE STRUCTURE? IS IT JUST THE PROPERTY LINE? UH, SO, SO, UH, IN OPTION ONE, THAT 500, WHATEVER THE NUMBER ENDS UP BEING, IT IS PROPOSED TO BE MEASURED FROM THE DATA CENTER BUILDING OR THE GENERATOR OR WHATEVER IS ON SITE TO THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE RESIDENTIAL USE. SO SINGLE FAMILY MULTIFAMILY, IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE MEASURED PROPERTY LINE OF THE DATA CENTER TO THE PROPERTY LINE OF WHATEVER USE THAT IS. SO WHEREVER YOU'RE SETBACK ON THE PROPERTY IS CONTRIBUTING TOWARDS THAT DISTANCE. SO OF 250 FEET OR 300 FEET. YEAH. IF, IF YOU WERE IN THAT, IF AT LET'S SAY IT'S 300 FEET, BUT YOUR BUILDING WAS SET BACK 50, YOU NEED TO BE 250 FEET AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE. WOULD THAT NOT BE BETTER TO STRUCTURE? I MEAN, BECAUSE IF THE BUILDINGS ARE SET 200 FEET OFF THE PROPERTY LINE, ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST GOING TO A PROPERTY LINE. IT MIGHT BE A 20 ACRE PARCEL OR POTENTIALLY THE ONLY, UH, THE REASON THAT I WROTE IT OR IT WAS WRITTEN TO THE PROPERTY LINE OF THOSE USES IS BECAUSE AT THE TIME OF PERMITTING, YOU'LL HAVE TO SUBMIT A SURVEY THAT SHOWS THAT YOU MEET THAT DISTANCE REQUIREMENT. AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO COMPEL SURVEYORS TO GO ONTO OTHER PEOPLE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY TO MEASURE THE DISTANCE. YOU CAN, IN THEORY, IF I'M THE APPLICANT, I'M AUTHORIZING THE SURVEYOR TO BE ON MY OWN PROPERTY, BUT I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TRESPASSING IN FRONT OR BACKYARDS MEASURING THE PROPERTY LINE OF THE HOUSE. WAS THE IDEA NOT OBJECT, UM, ON THE RESIDENTIAL USE, IT INCLUDES, DOES THAT INCLUDE MULTIFAMILY? YES. UM, SO DOES IT INCLUDE, I'VE GOT A PARCEL NEXT TO ME THAT'S ZONE MULTIFAMILY OR SINGLE FAMILY? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE GONNA COUNT? YES. WHICH WHICHEVER IS YES, CLOSEST, BUT IT, IT DOESN'T NOW THAT COMMERCIAL C3 AND L CAN HAVE MULTIFAMILY BY CODE BECAUSE YEAH. AND, AND HOW DID, AND AND I WILL SAY [03:25:01] WHAT'S WRITTEN IN OPTION ONE IS RESIDENTIAL USE, NOT RESIDENTIAL ZONE. SO IF IT'S A VACANT PARCEL, IT'S NOT BEING USED RESIDENTIALLY. OKAY. SO THAT'S NOT GONNA JUST LIKE NEGATE THAT RIGHT AWAY. OKAY. UM, ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, SUBSTATIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, IF IT'S A SUBSTATION THAT SAY CPS HAS, IT'S NOT OWNED PROBABLY BY THE PROPERTY OWNER, HOW ARE YOU GONNA CLASSIFY THAT? SO WHAT WAS INTENDED THERE? AND, AND I KNOW THAT, THAT I THINK IT PROBABLY CAUSED A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION. WE'RE CERTAINLY NOT PROPOSING THAT THERE BE A SETBACK FROM CPS UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE. UM, I'D BE HAPPY TO TO PASS THIS ALONG. BUT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT BUILD SMALL, THEY'RE INTENDED TO BE ONSITE POWER SUBSTATIONS FOR DATA CENTERS SPECIFICALLY. AGAIN, THE IDEA BEING WHATEVER THE IMPROVEMENT IS ON THE PROPERTY, LET THAT BE THE DISTANCE THAT WE MEASURE FROM. I, I WILL BE THE FIRST I, I THINK I GOT THIS RIGHT. CERTAINLY THEY'LL CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. THIS IS NOT COMMON, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE. COMMISSIONER THERE IS A REPRESENTATIVE FROM C PS. SORRY, THERE IS A REPRESENTATIVE FROM CPS HERE. SHOULD YOU WANT TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE ISSUES TO THEM, BUT NOT YET. . I MAY HAVE, UH, MULTIPLE QUESTIONS, BUT I HAVE ONE MORE I'M JUST GONNA THROW OUT RIGHT NOW. AND, AND IT HAS TO DO WITH THE SETBACK ISSUES WITH ALL THE OTHER CODES AND ALL THE OTHER USES AROUND TOWN. AND WE'RE SEEING THAT, HEY, SOME VERY SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTFUL THINGS HAVE MUCH, MUCH SMALLER, UH, SETBACKS. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE FEEDBACK ON THAT, THAT YOU CAN ADVISE US? I, I, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THAT WHEN WE LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF SETBACKS DATING A HUNDRED YEARS AGO, THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, FAIR AND EQUAL ACCESS TO AIR AND LIGHT. THESE SETBACKS ARE NOT PROPOSED FOR FAIR AND EQUAL ACCESS TO AIR AND LIGHT. IT'S TO PROVIDE A NOISE BARRIER. THERE ARE CERTAINLY TECHNIQUES YOU CAN EMPLOY THAT MITIGATE THAT. THE, IN, WHETHER THEY'RE IN CASE, YOU KNOW, BEHIND A CINDER BLOCK WALL, THAT DENS NOISE. THERE'S LOTS OF TECHNIQUES. BUT, YOU KNOW, ONE THING I'M TRYING TO BE SENSITIVE TO THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS A LOT OF OTHER CITIES SAY, RATHER THAN REQUIRING A MINIMUM DISTANCE, REQUIRE A NOISE STUDY. AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE A LOT OF THESE DATA CENTERS ARE BUILT, I CAN TELL YOU YOU'RE NOT PUTTING JBSA ON A GROUND STOP. SO YOU CAN DO A NOISE STUDY, YOU'RE NOT SHUTTING DOWN LOOP 1604, SO YOU CAN HAVE NO INTERFERENCE IN THE NOISE WHAT THE NUMBER SHOULD BE. I THINK THAT'S FAIR DEBATE, BUT I'M, I'M TRYING TO COME UP WITH A PREDICTABLE APPROACH. ONE LAST ONE AT THE MOMENT, UH, A PHASED CAMPUS, LIKE WE SAW 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, SOMETHING COMES IN NEXT DOOR AND GETS BUILT. HOW DO, HOW DO YOU PROTECT THAT INVESTMENT? I, I THINK SO AS WRITTEN LET'S, THAT FACILITY I TOURED, THERE'S ONE BUILDING BUILT, I THINK FOUR OR FIVE ENVISIONED IF EITHER OF THESE OPTIONS, THAT FACILITY IS WITHIN 500 FEET. UH, IF EITHER OPTION ONE, TWO, OR THREE IS PASSED, THEN THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO ZONE BEFORE THEY CAN BUILD BUILDING TWO. I THINK WHAT WAS INTRODUCED BY ONE OF THE SPEAKERS, UM, WHEN WE UPDATED THE METAL RECYCLING ENTITY AND USED AUTO PARTS RECYCLER CODE, WE ADDED A PROVISION TO THE NON-CONFORMING USE CHAPTER THAT SAID THAT EXISTING FACILITIES, EVEN IF THEY'RE NON-CONFORMING, CAN OBTAIN PERMITS TO NOT JUST REBUILD AND MAINTAIN, BUT ALSO TO EXPAND. THAT WOULD BE A POTENTIAL SOLUTION TO THE EXISTING FACILITIES, UH, THAT WOULD NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT. UM, THEY'D STILL BE NON-CONFORMING, BUT WOULD EFFECTIVELY NOT HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT NON-CONFORMING BRINGS WITH IT. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU'VE HAD A PLAN AND IT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE CITY FOR ALL THESE OTHER PHASES, THEY MAY HAVE TO ZONE EACH PHASE AS THEY GO. YEAH. SO UNDER WHATEVER CODE WE APPROVE. YEAH. AND LET, LET ME SPEAK TO A COUPLE LIMITATIONS WITH IF YOU SUBMITTED YOUR BUILDING PERMIT FOR A DATA CENTER FOUR OR FIVE, SIX MONTHS AGO, AND YOU'RE PENDING YOUR FINAL AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE IN, YOU'RE, YOU'VE SATISFIED THE REQUIREMENT THAT WE'RE GONNA GRANT THE C OF O WE'RE NOT GONNA HOLD YOU UP AT THE LAST, YOU KNOW, THE 11TH HOUR AND SAY YOU GOTTA GO BACK TO ZONING. BUT IF YOU HAVEN'T SUBMITTED THE PERMIT YET, EVEN IF IT'S ON AN OVERALL MASTER PLAN PHASE DEVELOPMENT, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO OBTAIN THAT ZONING WITHOUT THAT NON-CONFORMING RELIEF. SO THE VERSION TWO AND THREE WOULD ABSOLUTELY MESS WITH THEM COMPLETELY. IF, IF WE WENT THO THAT ROUTE, I MEAN OPTION TWO AND THREE WOULD RENDER EVERY [03:30:01] DATA CENTER IN SAN ANTONIO. NON-CONFORMING. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER DUVALL. THANK YOU. YES. UH, SO MIKE, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DEFINITION, UH, THE DISTANCE AND THE S REQUIREMENT, UH, FOR THE DEFINITION. UM, ACTUALLY, SORRY, LOGAN, BUT I I'M GONNA ASK, UM, INDUSTRY EXPERT, UM, MAYBE, MAYBE ONE OF YOU, ONE OF YOU TWO GUYS THAT OWN A SMALLER, UH, DATA CENTER IF, IF MR. WHITAKER OR GRAY? YEAH, EITHER ONE. OH, BOTH. ALL RIGHT. THERE WE GO. YEP. , I'M JUST KIDDING. YOU GET A YEAH, I GROUP PACKAGE. YEAH. YEAH. TH THIS, THIS WORKS. UM, AND AS WELL, YOU KNOW, IF, UH, ANY OF Y'ALL THAT WORK WITH LARGER DATA CENTERS, YOU KNOW, WANNA CHIME IN, RAISE YOUR HAND, I CAN CALL YOU UP TO, BUT I, NOT BEING A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS. IT'S DIFFICULT TO ORIENT MYSELF TO THE SCALE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE WITH DATA CENTERS. UM, I HEAR IN THE NEWS ABOUT THESE HYPERSCALERS THAT ARE COMING IN. YOU KNOW, I, I USE AI ALL THE TIME. I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT. UH, BUT HONESTLY NOT, NOT BEING A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT, I'M SURPRISED TO HEAR PEOPLE OPERATING FOR HOW MANY YEARS? YOU SAID 25? YEAH. SO, AND, AND HOW MANY SQUARE FEET, HOW MANY SQUARE FEET? UH, WE'RE JUST UNDER 2,500 SQUARE FEET. AND WE'VE BEEN OP IN OPERATION, LIKE I SAID, FOR 25 YEARS. OKAY. SO, UH, WHAT CAN YOU SHARE WITH ME ABOUT THE PURPOSE? IT'S NOT AI OR SOMETHING RIGHT? FOR 20 YEARS? WELL, IT VARIES GREATLY. WE HAVE SOME AI WORKLOADS IN THERE, BUT IT'S, UH, I THINK NOT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE COMMERCIAL SERVICES THAT YOU WOULD, YOU KNOW, USE OR INTERACT WITH ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS, PRIMARILY OUR CUSTOMER BASE, IT'S LOCAL. IT'S BUSINESSES THAT NEED OFFSITE DISASTER RECOVERY SERVICES, DATA BACKUP, THE ABILITY TO FAIL OVER. UH, WE'VE GOT SOME, UH, INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDERS THAT ARE CUSTOMERS OF OURS. SO, SO LET LET ME ASK YOU, UM, I'M TRYING TO GET A A SENSE OF WITH SCALE, ARE YOU, PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENSE IF I USE THE WRONG TERM. NO, I'M TAKEN, ARE YOU, ARE YOU, IS IT EDGE? ARE YOU AN EDGE DATA CENTER? ARE YOU A MICRO DATA CENTER? LIKE WHAT'S YEAH, YOU COULD DEFINITELY CALL US A MICRO DATA CENTER OR AN EDGE DATA CENTER TO AN EXTENT. WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE A MICRO, LIKE WHAT'S THE CUTOFF FOR WHAT YOU'D CONSIDER A MICRO, YOU KNOW, WE WERE ACTUALLY KICKING THIS DISCUSSION AROUND THE OTHER DAY. YOU KNOW, WHAT REALLY CONSTITUTES A DATA CENTER? TRAVIS, YOU WANT TO, YOU WANNA SPEAK TO THAT GI GIMME A NUMBER FOR SQUARE FOOTAGE. I CAN'T GIVE YOU A NUMBER FOR SQUARE FOOTAGE BECAUSE IT VARIES SO GREATLY. I KNOW. BUT, BUT FOR THE, IF I'M GONNA TRY TO FIND A DEFINITION, RIGHT? IS A 10,000 SQUARE FEET MICRO IS BELOW 10,000 SQUARE FEET FOR, IT'S, IT, IT CERTAINLY CAN BE BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S BEYOND JUST WHEN WE'RE TALKING PHYSICAL CAPACITY HERE, WE ALSO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE ELECTRICAL NEEDS ARE WITH AI STUFF, THE, THE FOOTPRINT OF WHAT THESE COMPANIES ARE REQUESTING OF US. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE, YOU PICTURE A, A CABINET FULL OF SERVERS AND SERVER EQUIPMENT, STUFF YOU'D NORMALLY SEE IN TVS AND MOVIES WITH THESE AI ONES THAT ARE COMING IN THERE NOW, THEIR REQUESTS ARE EASILY FIVE TO 10 X IN THE SAME PHYSICAL FOOTPRINT. FOR FOR ENERGY IMPACT. YES. FOR ENERGY IMPACT. OKAY. I JUST, BECAUSE I'M GONNA BE MINDFUL OF TIME HERE. YEP. 10 I, I LIKE, I LIKE 10,000. THAT'S OKAY. NOW, FOR MID-SIZED OR LIKE ENTERPRISE, WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE LIKE A, A HIGH END FOR, JUST FOR US TO ORIENT OURSELVES? IS IT LIKE A HUNDRED THOUSAND FOR MID-SIZED OR ENTERPRISE OR WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE A LOGICAL YEAH, ABOUT, ABOUT THE SIZE OF LIKE A WALMART, ABOUT THE SIZE OF YOUR WALMART, WHICH IS, I DON'T, YEAH, I, I, I COULDN'T TELL YOU SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THOSE THE OTHER, BUT JUST FOR MAYBE ONE OF THE REAL ESTATE FOLKS COULD CHIME IN, WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A WALMART BUDDY? BUT, BUT THAT IS A REALISTIC DEFINITION. GENERALLY SPEAKING, I I'D SAY WALMART'S PROBABLY A HUNDRED, THOU A HUNDRED THOUSAND OF, OF CVS PHARMACY OF 15,000. SO THEN WHAT, WHAT I'M HEARING THEN IS LIKE WE COULD SAY A MICRO DATA CENTER, SOMETHING LIKE LESS THAN 10,000 ENTERPRISE OR MID-SIZE COULD BE UP TO A HUNDRED THOUSAND. IS IT FAIR TO SAY ANYTHING OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND IS A HYPERSCALER OR IS THAT, SO AGAIN, AS TRAVIS ALLUDED TO THE FACT THAT IN A SINGLE RACK OF SERVERS TODAY, YOU'RE PACKING IN MUCH GREATER ENERGY CAPACITY, UH, IT REALLY GOES BACK TO WHAT ARE WE CONCERNED ABOUT? THE SPACE, THE NOISE, THE POWER, WHAT IS IT? BECAUSE TODAY PEOPLE ARE BUILDING OUT SERVER RACKS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED KILOWATT PER RACK WHEN JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, SIX AND A HALF KILOWATTS PER RACK. WAS TECHNOLOGY THE STANDARD BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY'S CHANGING. YES. BE REALLY HARD TO BE TALKING ABOUT POWER DRAW OR COMPUTE, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THE CODE'S NOT RELEVANT. YES. OKAY. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU GUYS. UM, [03:35:01] THE, UH, WHITE, UH, MAYBE THE LOGAN, THE WHITE DEFINITION IS THAT INAPPROPRIATE? THANK YOU, MR. GRAY. MR. WHITAKER. THANK YOU. WELL, THANK YOU GUYS. TAKE YOUR SEATS. THE WHITE DEFINITION, IS THAT A FAIR, CAN I CALL IT THAT? THE, THE DEFINITION INTRODUCED BY COUNCILMAN WHITE? YEAH. OKAY. THAT MEANT TO BE RESPECTFUL. UM, SO IT, IT DOESN'T INCLUDE A CUTOFF FROM MINIMUM SIZE. UH, BUT IT, IT COULD INCLUDE LIKE ANYTHING OVER 10,000 OR ANYTHING OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND. UM, WHAT, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? WOULD WE HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE SECTION OR COULD BE, COULD IT BE ADDED IN HERE? IF WE WERE TO SAY EXEMPT ANYTHING UNDER 10, I MEAN 10,000 SQUARE FEET IS TRIBUTE. YOU COULD CERTAINLY ADD THAT TO THE DEFINITION, BUT THEN IT ALMOST TRIGGERS A MANDATORY, WHAT DO WE CALL THESE OPERATIONS THAT ARE LESS THAN 10,000? WELL, OR JUST EXEMPT FROM THE ORDINANCE, RIGHT? THAT THE WELL, BUT YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE SOME USE OUT THERE THAT'S EXEMPT FROM ZONING. WE HAVE TO CALL IT SOMETHING. SO IF THEY WERE 9,999 SQUARE FEET, WHAT DO I CALL 'EM? YEAH, BUT MAYBE THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT WOULDN'T HAVE TO HYPOTHETICALLY, RIGHT. THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT MIGHT NOT HAVE TO APPLY IF YOU'RE A MICRO DATA CENTER WHERE IT MIGHT APPLY IF YOU'RE A HYPERSCALER HYPOTHETICALLY. RIGHT. THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE A WAY TO REGULATE THEM. YES. OKAY. UH, LET ME MOVE ON TO DISTANCE. UH, WHERE DID THE 500 FEET COME FROM? IT WAS FOUND TO BE A, NOT GONNA SAY INDUSTRY STANDARD, BUT LOOKING AT A LOT OF OTHER ORDINANCES, ALBEIT MOST OF THEM FROM OUT OF STATE, THAT WAS RELATIVELY COMMON. OKAY. SO I'M NOT GONNA SAY IT WAS THE MAJORITY, BUT IT WAS RELATIVELY COMMON AND IT WAS REALLY A STARTING POINT FOR DISCUSSION. SO I THINK WE ALL ACCEPTED THAT A THOUSAND FEET WAS, YOU KNOW, A LOT, IF WE'RE TRYING TO MITIGATE NOISE A HUNDRED FEET, PROBABLY NOT QUITE ENOUGH. UM, BUT AGAIN, I I WILL BE ENTIRELY TRANSPARENT THAT 500 MAY NOT BE THE MAGIC NUMBER. UH, WHEN YOU MENTIONED, UH, IT, IT, UH, I THINK YOU WERE QUITE RIGHT WHEN YOU SAID THAT THE ORIGINAL SETBACKS WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, STANDARDS OF UH, YOU KNOW, ACCESS TO LIGHT AND ACCESS. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY RIGHT. UH, BUT CO'S UH, I SEE THAT CO'S HAVE A BLASTING SETBACK OF WHAT IS 300 FEET. THAT'S STATE LAW. OKAY. I, UH, WELL, BUT STILL THAT'S THE STANDARD, I MEAN 300 FEET, UM, THAT SEEMS TO BE PRETTY ASSOCIATED. THAT CAN'T JUST BE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SHARED ACCESS TO LIGHT, THAT THAT'S ABOUT NOISE. SURE. AND THAT'S, SO HOW DOES THAT WORK? IS THAT 300 FEET FROM RESIDENTIAL? YOU COULD HAVE RESIDENTIAL WITHIN 300 FEET OF BLASTING. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE STATUTES ON IT. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THOSE REGULATIONS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. OKAY. SO AUDREY IS OUR QUARRY EXPERT. . DOES SHE HAVE A, A DID YOU NO WORD . YEAH, I MEAN I HAVE TO, I'D HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT. OKAY. I, UH, EARLIER, UH, NUCLEAR AND RADIOACTIVE INSTRUMENTATION MANUFACTURING WAS MENTIONED THAT IT REQUIRES A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. IT'S ONE OF THE VERY FEW EXAMPLES OF SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. RIGHT? UH, YEP. IT IS. WHAT'S THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT FOR, UH, NUCLEAR IMPLEMENTATION MANUFACTURING? DO YOU, DO YOU KNOW IT OFFHAND? IT WOULD. UM, SO NUCLEAR WASTE, UH, IS AN I TWO S ONLY. I BELIEVE IT WOULD DEPEND WHAT IT ABUTTED WAS IT NEXT TO OTHER I TWO, IN WHICH CASE I DON'T THINK THERE'S A SETBACK AT ALL. IS IT NEXT TO SINGLE FAMILY, IN WHICH CASE I THINK IT'S A HUNDRED FOOT REAR 50 FOOT SIDE. BUT THAT DOES, I NEED TO LOOK AT THE CODE. YEAH, THAT DOES BRING UP, UM, WITH LIKE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE MIXING UP STUFF THAT SHOULDN'T, SHOULD BE IN DIFFERENT BUCKETS, RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU'RE PLOPPING A DATA CENTER INTO A C TWO, UH, MAYBE IT'S A DIFFERENT USE CASE THAN AN I TWO. RIGHT? SO LIKE YOU SAID, LIKE AN I TWO NUCLEAR MANUFACTURING IN AN I TWO ISN'T GONNA HAVE A SETBACK. IT'S NOT A RIGHT. AND I MEAN THAT WAS FRANKLY WHAT I, I TRIED TO LAY OUT IN MY PROS AND CONS SLIDE IS THIS OPTION ONE, YOU KNOW, IT INCLUDES SOME HARD AND FAST RULES AND THE ONLY WAY TO VARY FROM THOSE STANDARDS IS A TRIP BACK TO THIS ROOM FOR THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. BUT WHILE, UH, I'LL SAVE THE REST OF MY QUESTIONS FOR, FOR, UH, THE SECOND ROUND. BUT COULDN'T WE THOUGH HERE TODAY NOT HAVE THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT FOR SAY I TWO OR I ONE AND ONLY IT APPLY IT TO C TWO? YOU COULD. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, COMMISSIONER LO. THANKS. I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. UM, I'M GONNA ASSUME YOU'RE THE BEST PERSON, LOGAN, BUT IF THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE, LET ME KNOW. USUALLY DANGEROUS , JUST GENERALLY LOGAN, YOU'RE THE BEST PERSON. IT'S OKAY TO TRY YOUR BEST. SO, UM, GIVEN THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE SHOWN UP TODAY AND WHAT I'VE SEEN, THERE'S A LOT OF REFERENCE TO STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS AND THEN IT SEEMS LIKE MOST OF THE STAKEHOLDERS ARE INDUSTRY PEOPLE. AND I UNDERSTAND, [03:40:01] ESPECIALLY ON THIS COMMISSION, WE OFTEN, THERE'S EASY ACCESS FOR FOLKS WHO SPEND THEIR NINE TO FIVE DOING THINGS LIKE THIS. 'CAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR NINE TO FIVE TO DO THIS. SO I GET IT. UM, BUT I'M CURIOUS, OOPS, I'M CURIOUS BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SUCH A LONG PROCESS, WERE THERE COMMUNITY MEMBERS INVOLVED? CAN YOU SPEAK TO SURE. THAT BALANCE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'VE HAD A LOT OF INDUSTRY. I FEEL LIKE I UNDERSTAND WHERE THE INDUSTRY STANDS ON THIS. SURE. AND THAT'S GREAT, BUT I'M NOT CLEAR ON THE COMMUNITY AS MUCH. YEAH, SO I MEAN, OUR APPROACH TO THE STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS WAS THAT IF YOU WANTED TO PARTICIPATE, YOU WERE INVITED. AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT, UH, CERTAINLY WE HAD LOTS OF MEMBERS FROM THE INDUSTRY AS YOU WOULD EXPECT. UM, PUBLIC CITIZEN ATTENDED GREATER EDWARDS AQUIFER AUTHORITY ATTENDED. WE HAD OTHER CONCERNED CITIZENS ATTEND THOSE MEETINGS. UM, WE HAD FOLKS THAT WORKED IN OTHER INDUSTRIES, UNAFFILIATED WITH DATA CENTERS, THE, UH, SAN ANTONIO MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION. UM, I THINK AT, AT AT BY, BY THE TIME OUR INVITE LIST WAS FINALIZED, WE INVITED 139 PEOPLE TO EVERY SINGLE STAKEHOLDER MEETING. NOT GONNA LIE, A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS WERE FROM THE INDUSTRY, BUT WE CERTAINLY TRIED OUR BEST TO INCLUDE AS MANY PEOPLE AS WE COULD. UM, EVERYTHING WE DID THE MEETINGS, UH, THE MATERIALS, WHETHER IT WAS THE CCR, THE VERSIONS AS WE WERE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS HAS BEEN UPDATED AND POSTED ON SA SPEAK UP, THAT'S THE CITY'S KIND OF MAIN COMMUNICATION CHANNEL OUT TO THE PUBLIC. UH, WE, WE POSTED THE, THE THIRD OPTION THAT WAS INTRODUCED AT B SESSION, UH, ON ESSAY SPEAKUP AS WELL. SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT MAYBE THERE WERE FOLKS OUT THERE THAT DIDN'T HAVE A, A CHANCE TO PARTICIPATE, BUT IT CERTAINLY WASN'T BY DESIGN AND COMMISSIONER, IF I MAY ADD, IT WAS NOT A CLOSED UH, MEETING. IT WAS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. SO, UM, JUST LIKE LOGAN MENTIONED, UM, THERE WAS A, A LOT OF COMMUNICATION OUT THERE AND ESSAY SPEAK UP WAS THE PAGE WHERE THE PUBLIC TYPICALLY GOES TO, TO LOOK FOR THOSE PUBLIC MEETINGS. YEAH. THANK YOU BOTH. THAT'S HELPFUL. SO I GUESS MY SECOND QUESTION IS KIND OF ON THAT POINT. UM, JUST I SEE THE CLUSTER OR I, I'VE SEEN THERE'S A LOT OF CLUSTER THESE IN D SIX AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS MAY NOT EVER TOUCH D FIVE OR INNER CITY AREAS. BUT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, LOOKING AT THE THREE OPTIONS, IF WE WERE TO GO WITH OPTION ONE FOR THE FOLKS, FOR LIKE A FAMILY WHO LIVED DIRECTLY NEXT TO A DATA CENTER, IF OPTION ONE WAS APPROVED, WOULD THEY HAVE ANY OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE INPUT IF OPTION ONE WAS APPROVED? I'M TRYING TO MAP OUT WHERE THEY MIGHT HAVE ENTRY. YEAH, BECAUSE OPTION ONE, UH, IT ONLY ALLOWS YOU TO OBTAIN PERMITS BY RIGHT. IF YOU MEET ALL OF THE CONDITIONS, IF YOU FAIL A SINGLE CONDITION, YOU'RE HERE TO GET THAT PERMIT. SO DEPENDING UPON WHAT THE CONDITIONS END UP BEING, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE INPUT. THE EXAMPLE YOU SHARED IS THEY SHARE A PROPERTY LINE. I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY DISCUSSION THAT THERE SHOULD BE NO DISTANCE OR NO SETBACK AT ALL. SO IN THAT, UH, SITUATION, ALMOST GUARANTEED TO BE BEFORE THE ZONING COMMISSION, EVEN IF THEY MET ALL REQUIREMENTS AND THEY WERE IN ONE OF THE ZONES THAT ALLOWS THEM, IN THAT SITUATION, ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS WOULD NOT BE A MINIMUM DISTANCE FROM THE HOUSE. 'CAUSE IF THEY SHARE A PROPERTY LINE, THEY WOULD ALMOST LIKE, HYPOTHETICALLY IF THEY SHARED A PROPERTY LINE AND THE DATA CENTER WAS 500 FEET AWAY AND WE MEASURED FROM THE BUILDING TO THE PROPERTY LINE, THEY COULD POTENTIALLY AVOID THIS. BUT 500 FOOT SETBACKS ARE PRETTY UNCOMMON. OKAY. I ASK BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY PARTS OF D TWO HAVE AT ONE POINT BEEN REALLY EMPTY WITHOUT ANY DEVELOPMENT AND THEN DEVELOPMENT COMES. I THINK WE ALL KNOW SAN ANTONIO'S GROWING A LOT, SO JUST TRYING TO GET AN IDEA. AND THEN FOR OPTION TWO AND THREE, THERE IS KIND OF THAT BUILT IN PUBLIC OPINION, PUBLIC INPUT OPPORTUNITY NO MATTER WHAT. BUT I JUST WANTED TO CLEAR DOWN OPTION ONE, JUST CONFIRMING OPTION TWO AND THREE HAVE THAT BUILT IN. CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UM, WE HAVE BEEN GOING FOR ALMOST TWO HOURS AGAIN. SO WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF BREAK AGAIN. SO WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR APPROXIMATELY SEVEN MINUTES. THE ZONING COMMISSION IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS STANDING IN RECESS. THE TIME IS 4 53. THANK YOU. I'M GONNA GET A ALRIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE RESUME YOUR SEATS OR RETAKE YOUR SEATS. I KIND OF DISLIKE RESUME. UH, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. THE TIME IS 5 0 3 AND THIS MEETING OF THE ZONING COMMISSION OF SAN ANTONIO IS BACK IN SESSION. UH, PRIOR TO RESUMING OUR QUESTIONS, THERE ARE [03:45:01] TWO THINGS I WANNA TAKE CARE OF FIRST, UH, AS A POINT OF PERSONAL PRIVILEGE, I WANT TO EMBARRASS SOMEONE AND THANK HER FOR YEARS WORKING WITH THE ZONING COMMISSION AND SUPPORTING US FOR SO LONG. AND I KNOW, I KNOW IN HER HEART OF HEARTS, SHE WANTS TO STAY HERE FOR THE NEXT HOUR AND A HALF WITH YOU FOLKS, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS HER LAST DAY. BUT ALEXA, UH, WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU'VE DONE. SHE, SHE IS NOT LEAVING US HERE AT THE CITY, BUT SHE IS IN FACT LEAVING US HERE IN ZONING. SO THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UNLESS ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALEXA OR WE CAN MOVE ALL THANK ALEXA FOR ALL OF YOUR PROFESSIONALISM AND HELP AND LIKE UNPACKING COMPLEX ZONING THINGS. I DID NOT KNOW YOU WERE LEAVING. THAT'S VERY SAD. I APPRECIATE YOU A LOT. ALRIGHT, WELL, ALRIGHT, SINCE WE DO HAVE A LOT TO DO AND I DID NOT WANT TO KEEP YOU AS LONG EVEN AS THIS, BUT HERE WE ARE. ALRIGHT. UH, BEFORE WE, UM, CONTINUE WITH QUESTIONS STARTING WITH COMMISSIONER PANA, I DID WANT TO ADDRESS ONE OTHER THING. UM, OUR REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAD LOOKED INTO THE BLASTING ISSUE. UH, SO MS. EMOTO JOHNSON, IF YOU WANT TO PROVIDE AN ANSWER TO THAT ISSUE, UH, YES. SO IN LOOKING AT THE QUARRY DISTRICTS, EACH QUARRY DISTRICT, IT'S A SPECIAL DISTRICT, WHICH AS FAR AS THE OPTIONS MEANS IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF THE S OPTION BECAUSE ONE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO CITY COUNCIL EVERY SINGLE TIME IN ORDER TO BE DESIGNATED A QUARRY DISTRICT TO PERFORM QUARRY ACTIVITIES. SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE SOMEBODY BLASTING WITHIN 350 FEET OF AN ADJACENT USE UNLESS CITY COUNCIL AGREES THAT IT'S AN APPROPRIATE ADJACENT USE TO BEGIN WITH. ALRIGHT. NOW, COMMISSIONER PANA, THANK YOU. WITH NO FURTHER ADO WELL, YOUR FIRST ROUND OF QUESTIONS, SOME OF MY QUESTIONS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ASKED, BUT I DO HAVE A COUPLE MORE. UM, I WANTED TO ASK LOGAN, DID WE LOOK AT CASE STUDIES, BEST PRACTICES, OR PLAYBOOKS FROM OTHER CITIES THAT ARE HEAVY WITH DATA CENTERS TO SEE WHAT WORKS BEST AND WHAT DOESN'T? YEAH, I MEAN, A A LOT OF THE, SO I'M GONNA ANSWER THIS QUESTION FROM TWO DIFFERENT LEVELS. I'LL, I'LL START WITH WHAT ARE OTHER CITIES DOING IN TEXAS? UM, SOME CITIES ARE DOING NOTHING AT ALL. SOME HAVE ADOPTED PERMIT MORATORIUMS. UH, OTHERS HAVE ADOPTED A PROCESS THAT REQUIRES DATA CENTERS TO GO BEFORE COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. AND WE'VE PROBABLY READ IN THE NEWS THE OUTCOME OF AT LEAST SOME OF THOSE CASES, UM, NATIONALLY, OF COURSE, EVERY STATE HAS DIFFERENT ALLOWANCES WITH WHAT YOU CAN DO. UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF CITIES HAVE ADOPTED, UH, RULES THAT REGULATE THE CONSUMPTION OF ENERGY AND WATER. WE SEE THAT AS LEGALLY PROBLEMATIC IN TEXAS. UM, CERTAINLY ORDINANCES THAT HAVE MINIMUM DISTANCES, WHETHER IT'S SETBACKS OR DISTANCE FROM INCOMPATIBLE USE IS FAIRLY COMMON. A LOT OF CITIES REQUIRE COUNCIL CONSIDERATION TO AUTHORIZE A DATA CENTER. UM, YOU KNOW, A A LOT OF TOOLS OUT THERE THAT I THINK THIS COMMISSION WOULD LOOK AT AS BEING RELATIVELY STANDARD. OKAY. THANK YOU. I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE NOISE AND DECIBELS AND HOW IT'S HARD TO GAUGE WHAT THAT RATE IS, BUT DO WE HAVE AN IDEA ON AVERAGE WHAT THE DECIBEL RATE OF THE NOISE IS COMING, IF THAT MAKES SENSE? IT IS GOING FROM DATA CENTERS. IT IS GOING TO VARY WILDLY BASED ON WHERE YOU MEASURE FROM AND HOW CLOSE YOU ARE TO THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE. OKAY. UM, I'M STILL NOT TOO CLEAR ON THE NON-CONFORMING, CONFIRMING EXISTING DATA CENTERS. SO LET'S SAY WE ADOPT OPTION TWO OR THREE, THESE 28 EXISTING DATA CENTERS. DO WE GO AND LOOK AT THEIR PRIMARY USE? DO THEY JUST CONTINUE TO EXIST HAPPILY AND WE DON'T DO ANYTHING? OR DO WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING? SO LET ME MAYBE BACK UP AND DO A A A 1 0 1 ON WHAT NON-CONFORMING MEANS. NONCONFORMING MEANS THAT YOU WERE LAWFULLY ESTABLISHED, WHETHER YOU WERE BUILT OUT IN THE COUNTY AND THEN ANNEXED IN, OR YOU WERE APPROPRIATELY ZONED AND GOT ALL THE RIGHT PERMITS WHEN YOU WERE BUILT. AND THEN THE CITY CHANGES THE RULES. NON-CONFORMING USES ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE OPERATING TRADITIONAL NON-CONFORMING RULES, UH, MEAN THAT YOU CANNOT EXPAND. AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT IS UNIQUELY CHALLENGING TO THIS INDUSTRY, IS YOU LOOK AT PHASED PROJECTS THAT YEAH, WE'RE GONNA START WITH ONE BUILDING, BUT WE INTEND THAT IT WILL EVENTUALLY BE THREE OR FOUR OR FIVE. THAT EXPANSION IS NOT ALLOWED UNDER NONCONFORMING. ONE OF THE OTHER MAJOR LIMITATIONS IMPOSED BY NONCONFORMING IS THAT YOU CAN ONLY CONDUCT REPAIRS TO AN EXISTING USE UP TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. SO IF [03:50:01] THERE WERE A REALLY BAD FIRE OR A NATURAL DISASTER AND IT DESTROYED THE BUILDING, IF IT DAMAGED MORE THAN 50% OF IT, YOU LOSE THE ABILITY TO OPERATE THAT USE. WHAT WAS DISCUSSED EARLIER WAS A, A CARVE OUT WHEN WE UPDATED THE METAL RECYCLING ENTITY CODE THAT SAID THAT THOSE ARE THE RULES THAT NON-CONFORMING USES HAVE TO PLAY BY. BUT FOR METAL RECYCLING ENTITIES AND USED AUTO PARTS RECYCLERS, KIND OF THE NATURE OF THEIR BUSINESS, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO OBTAIN PERMITS TO REBUILD AND EXPAND FOR THOSE EXISTING SITES. SO YOU WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE WOULD CREATE, OR WE COULD, IF WE DECIDED TO CREATE SOME SORT OF AMENDMENT OR THAT, THAT COULD CERTAINLY BE PROPOSED TO PROTECT THE EXISTING DATA CENTERS. OKAY. I AM CURIOUS TO HEAR FROM ANYONE THAT'S HERE FROM SAS AND CPS. UM, I DON'T KNOW WHO'S HERE CPSI THINK MR. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE'S BEEN ANY STUDIES DONE, YOUR REALLY, YOUR GENERAL OPINION AND WHAT THE THOUGHTS ARE AND, AND ANYTHING THAT YOU COULD SHARE WITH US FROM THE STANDPOINT OF CPS. IT'S YOUR MOMENT TO SHINE. , I GAVE YOU 30 SECONDS . UH, YEAH. UH, WELCOME TO THE OPPORTUNITY. MY NAME IS JAKE BISSELL. I, UH, SENIOR DIRECTOR INTEGRATED SYSTEM PLANNING AT CPS ENERGY. I I WANNA START BY SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT LOGAN AND THE CITY ARE DOING IS NOT AN AUTHORITY THAT WE HAVE, RIGHT? UM, WE ARE OBLIGATED TO SERVE ANY CUSTOMER THAT COMES, UM, TO THE SERVICE TERRITORY. SO I THINK THAT MEANS I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION ON THIS TOPIC, RIGHT? OFFICIALLY, WE DON'T HAVE AN OPINION, NOR DO WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO. UM, I I DO THINK IT'S WORTH TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT STATE LAW AFTER SENATE BILL SIX WAS PASSED IN THE PREVIOUS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, HAS, YOU KNOW, REQUIRED THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION OF TEXAS AND ERCOT TO DEVELOP RULES AROUND INTERCONNECTING WHAT IS CALLED A LARGE LOAD. THEY DEFINE THAT TODAY AT 75 MEGAWATTS, RIGHT? SO IT'S NOT SQUARE FOOTAGE, IT IS POWER USAGE BECAUSE ERCOT AND THE PUC HAVE TO BE, ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR RELIABLE OPERATION OF THE TRANSMISSION GRID IN, IN, IN THE REGION, RIGHT? IN THE STATE OF TEXAS WHERE WE OPERATE. UM, SO THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION. RULEMAKING IS ALSO STILL ONGOING. UH, AN EXAMPLE OF THAT IS THE, UH, NATIONAL ELECTRIC RELIABILITY COUNCIL, NERC, WHICH HAS THE FEDERAL AUTHORITY TO REGULATE WHAT IS CALLED THE BULK ELECTRIC SYSTEM. SO ALL OF THE TRANSMISSION AND POWER GENERATION FACILITIES ACROSS THE NATION CAME OUT WITH A DEFINITION THAT SAYS LARGE LOAD IS 50 MEGAWATTS. RIGHT. SO, AND, AND I MEAN THE, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT ERCOT IN SOME TYPE OF, IN FUTURE RULEMAKING WILL ADJUST THAT DOWN. MEANING THAT ANY UTILITY THAT'S OPERATING A TRANSMISSION SYSTEM AND DEALING WITH LARGE LOAD CUSTOMERS WILL THEN HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES THAT ARE SET FORTH AROUND OBLIGATION AND, AND HOW DO WE, YOU KNOW, INTEGRATE LARGE LOADS INTO THE SYSTEM. UM, I I WANNA PAUSE THERE AND SEE, LIKE, DO YOU HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS? ANY EFFECT ON THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY FOR RESIDENTS? WE'RE, LET'S SAY 28, AND I KNOW MOST OF THEM ARE SMALLER IN SIZE, WE KNOW THEY EXIST AMONG US, THE DATA CENTERS, RIGHT? BUT LET'S SAY WE HAVE ANOTHER, I THINK ON, I DID GOOGLE GEMINI, I USED A DATA CENTER TO FIND THE INFORMATION. UM, THERE'S ANOTHER 20, I THINK THREE TO 40 IN THE PIPELINE. SO LET'S SAY IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, WE HAVE ANOTHER 30 DATA CENTERS GO UP. IS ANY SORT OF EFFECT ON THE PRICE OF ELECTRICITY FOR RESIDENTS? UH, SO I MEAN, MY GENERAL ANSWER IS THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS ABOUT THAT IMPACT TO OUR, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL AND BUSINESS CUSTOMERS. UH, A NUMBER OF WAYS THAT WE'RE DOING THAT. SO OUR TARIFF DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IS GOVERNED BY THE CITY COUNCIL, RIGHT? UM, SO WHEN WE EITHER ARE CREATING A NEW TARIFF OR CHANGING HOW WE ARE CHARGING, RIGHT, UH, YOU KNOW, ALL THE WAY UP TO RATE INCREASES THAT REQUIRES CITY COUNCIL APPROVAL, ALL OF THAT INFORMATION IS BACKED UP BY WHAT WE CALL COST OF SERVICE STUDIES THAT WE DO REGULARLY. THE INTENT OF WHICH IS TO ENSURE THAT OUR RATES ARE RECOVERING THE COST TO SERVE BY CUSTOMER CLASS. UM, SO THAT WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN. UM, MEANING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE DIFFERENT RATE CLASSES FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF CUSTOMERS, TYPICALLY BASED ON AND ON LOAD AND, AND MAYBE USE, RIGHT? [03:55:01] UM, SO WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE DATA CENTER WORLD TODAY IS CHANGING WITH THE REGARDS TO MAGNITUDE OF USAGE, YOU KNOW, TODAY WE ARE INVESTIGATING AND IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING WHAT IS A LARGE LOAD TARIFF SO THAT OUR TARIFF STRUCTURE NOW RECOGNIZES THE FACT THAT THERE IS A NEW LARGER CLASS, YOU KNOW, BEYOND, YOU KNOW, TODAY ONE OF, UH, YOU KNOW, A RATE THAT, THAT WE CHARGE COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS IS CALLED SLP SUPER LARGE POWER USER, RIGHT? UM, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT PREVIOUS COST OF SERVICE STUDIES AND INFORMATION THAT WE'VE, WE'VE, YOU KNOW, PUBLICLY INTRODUCED TO THE BOARD TODAY, WE KNOW THAT OUR COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS, YOU KNOW, SLIGHTLY SUBSIDIZE OUR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS. WHICH, WHICH IS A GOOD THING. I MEAN, I MEAN THAT LIKE, THAT IS, IT'S PURPOSEFUL. THE BOARD SUPPORTS THAT CITY, THE CITY COUNCIL SUPPORTS THAT. SO AS WE GO INTO THE LARGE LOAD TARIFF DEVELOPMENT DISCUSSIONS FIRST INTERNALLY, THEN WITH CITY STAFF, AND THEN A DECISION GOES TO ACTUALLY ASK FOR A, YOU KNOW, A NEW APPROVED TARIFF, WE WILL ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS. AND THE POINT IS TO SAY, YEAH, LIKE THE GOAL IS TO ENSURE THAT THESE CUSTOMERS AT A MINIMUM ARE RECOVERING THE COST OF WHAT IT TAKES FOR CPS ENERGY TO SERVE THEM, IF NOT ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT. SO THAT'S ON THE TARIFF SIDE. UM, THE, THE OTHER PART, YEAH. OKAY. TAKE A BREAK. , THANK YOU. MR. BAAL DOES, IS THERE THAT, THAT ANSWERS IN GENERAL. OKAY. THAT'S GOOD. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT. ANYONE HERE FROM SAWS? NO, THAT'S AWESOME. ANY, ANYONE WANT TO TELL ME A LITTLE BIT OF INFO ABOUT RECYCLED WATER? IF THESE DATA CENTERS ARE NOT USING THE RECYCLED WATER, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE RECYCLED WATER? WHO USES THE RECYCLED WATER? COME ON UP. WELL, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU TWO MORE MINUTES. YEAH, I'LL DO THIS REAL QUICK. UM, SO MOST DATA CENTERS ARE GOING INTO WHAT'S CALLED A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM. THERE'S ALL SORTS OF TECHNOLOGY AND WATER DOESN'T EVAPORATE. AND SO THE WATER THEY PUT IN IT JUST RECIRCULATES AND RECIRCULATES ON THE RECYCLED SIDE. UH, MOST DATA CENTERS CAN USE RECYCLED AND WILL, AND WE'VE TALKED TO SAWS ABOUT THAT. THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO THEM, THEY HAVE TO HAVE LINES, AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THEIR PLAN. SO THEY'RE WORKING TOWARDS IT. BUT I THINK A GOOD POINT, I THINK THE FUTURE IS WE GOTTA GET MORE AND MORE DATA CENTERS AND OTHER LARGE CUSTOMERS USING RECYCLED WATER. AND I THINK SAS NEED SOME HELP IN THEIR RATE STRUCTURE TO FUND THE LINES TO GET IT TO, TO THE COMPANIES. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. NO MORE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER PO. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE ALREADY ANSWERED OR NOT, BUT, UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THESE ARE THE RIGHT QUESTIONS TO ASK RIGHT NOW, BUT ON THE GENERAT GENERATOR EMISSIONS, THE HEAT AND MECHANICAL EXHAUST, DO THEY AFFECT THE OUTDOOR REC AREAS, UH, OR NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES? ANYBODY CAN ANSWER THAT. NO. OKAY. MAYBE THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION TO ASK RIGHT NOW, SO, ALRIGHT. SORRY. NO, NO. STOP, STOP, STOP. COME ON UP. IT'S NO, COME ON UP. SORRY. MR. HANSEN. YES, SIR. SO, MR. HANSEN, IF, WOULD YOU ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN? COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ, MS. S, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ASKED, BUT YOU, IF HE WANTS TO ASK YOU AFTERWARDS, YOU CAN, YOU CAN ADDRESS THAT, UH, THE GENER, UH, GENERATOR EMISSIONS, ALSO THE HEAT AND MECHANICAL EXHAUST. WILL THEY AFFECT OUTDOOR RECREATION AREAS AND NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES? SO THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THEIR PROXIMITY TO SAID PROPERTIES. IT ALSO DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF GENERATOR THAT'S INSTALLED. UH, THE MOST MODERN TYPES OF GENERATORS. A GEN IS A GEN FOUR GENERATOR. TRY SAYING THAT FIVE TIMES FAST, BUT IT HAS 90% FEWER NOXIOUS FUMES. UH, PARTICULATE MATTER 2.5 MILLIMETERS OR SMALLER, EXCUSE ME, ON THE EXACT MEASUREMENTS HERE. BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE MORE MODERN GENERATORS HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY FEWER POLLUTANTS THAT ACTUALLY COME OUT WHEN IT COMES TO CO2. IT'S ABOUT EVEN, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE NASTY STUFF, THE STUFF THAT GIVES PEOPLE ALLERGIES, IT'S SIGNIFICANTLY, UH, REDUCED WHENEVER YOU STORE, WHENEVER YOU INSTALL GEN FOUR GENERATORS. OKAY. UH, RIGHT NOW YOU JUST MENTIONED, UH, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN A PROPERTY. WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE A PROPER DISTANCE FOR THAT? I'M GONNA BE HONEST WITH YOU. UH, I, I I'M NOT QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. UH, WILL THIS, UH, CHANGE THE VIEW OF, OF THE HOMES AND NEIGHBOR, UH, OR THE NEIGHBOR OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD? COULD YOU REPHRASE? COULD YOU SAY THAT QUESTION AGAIN PLEASE? HAVING THESE DATA CENTERS, WILL THEY CHANGE THE PROPERTY VALUE OR THE VIEW OF THE AREA? FOR EXAMPLE, DO YOU THINK, UH, THE DOMINION WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A DATA CENTER RIGHT NEXT TO IT? YEAH, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE DOMINION [04:00:01] . I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT GONNA SPEAK FOR THE DOMINION AS WELL. I'M, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY EMPIRICAL STUDIES THAT HAVE TRACKED THE IMPACT ON PROPERTY VALUES, UH, AS A RESULT OF PROXIMITY, UH, WHATEVER DISTANCE YOU ARE TO OR FROM A DATA CENTER, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THIS PROCESS, I HAVE ENGAGED WITH PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIKE 'EM. THEY DON'T LIKE TO HEAR 'EM, THEY DON'T LIKE TO LOOK AT 'EM. I EVEN GOING BACK A COUPLE YEARS AGO ON A TOTALLY UNRELATED ZONING CASE, I LISTENED TO THE PRESIDENT OF A NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION SAY TO A, AN APPLICANT, WHY CAN'T YOU BUILD SOMETHING NICE AND PLEASANT LIKE A DATA CENTER ? IT'S, IT'S ENTIRELY, IT'S JUST CASE BY CASE. OKAY. UH, THE CONSTANT NOISE OR DO THESE, UH, DO THEY HAVE A PERSISTENT HUM? IS THERE YOU TYPICALLY, MR. HAN, I'M SORRY. LET'S, LET'S CALL ON SOMEONE AND THEN, BUT YEAH, NO COMMENTS. GO AHEAD. UNLESS YOU'RE CALLED PER, YOU CAN RAISE YOUR HAND, YOU CAN BRING YOU DOWN. I JUST DON'T KNOW THE EITHER BY NAME OR RIGHT. QUESTION. WE'LL JUST GESTURE. MR. RODRIGUEZ, MICHAEL HAYWARD. SO DO THESE DATA CENTERS TYPICALLY? HUM. THERE IS EQUIPMENT WITHIN THE DATA CENTER THAT DOES HAVE A HUMMING NOISE, TYPICALLY DOES HAVE BARRICADED WALLS AROUND IT. THAT WOULD BE THE CHILLERS. THE CHILLERS ARE USUALLY AIR COOLED CHILLERS HERE IN THE, UH, CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. AND THE AREA, UH, AS THE GENTLEMAN BEHIND ME STATED THAT THERE ARE CLOSED LOOP SYSTEMS. THAT'S WHAT AN AIR COLD CHILLER DOES. AN AIR COLD CHILLER IS A LARGE VERSION OF THE AIR CONDITIONING SYSTEM THAT'S RIGHT BESIDE YOUR HOUSE ON THE OUTSIDE UNIT. SO YES, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A COMPRESSOR INSIDE OF IT THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE OR THAT'S GOING TO HUM AT A BIT, AS WELL AS ABOUT 24 FANS ON TOP TO REJECT HEAT. YOU THINK, YOU THINK THE NEIGHBORS ARE GONNA BE ABLE TO HEAR THAT OR BOTHERED BY THAT WITH THE, WITH THE PROPOSED SETBACK? ABSOLUTELY NOT. WITH EVEN A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED TO 150, UH, FOOT SETBACK, MORE THAN LIKELY, NOT ANY MORE THAN THE ROAD NOISE OF THE, UH, UH, NEIGHBOR DRIVING DOWN THE STREET FROM THE GROCERY STORE. OKAY, THANK YOU. UH, YOU HAD SOMETHING TO SAY. PLEASE STEP UP. , PLEASE COME UP. YEAH, LET'S NOT, UH, SUGARCOAT, UH, DIESEL POLLUTION. UM, WE HAVE UNHEALTHY HAIR IN SAN ANTONIO BECAUSE WE'RE IN NON-ATTAINMENT, UH, UM, FOR OZONE AND DIESEL POLLUTION CAUSES SERIOUS RESPIRATORY ISSUES, RIGHT? WE GET, UH, VOCS, WE GET NITROUS OXIDE, UM, SOCKS. UM, AND THESE HAVE HEALTH IMPACTS TO THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE NEAR, UM, YOU KNOW, TOXIC FACILITIES LIKE DATA CENTERS, RIGHT? UM, TAKE A DATA CENTER, UM, OFF OF OMICRON, UH, VANTAGE AS 85 BACKUP DIESEL GENERATORS. YOU DON'T KNOW, THE NEIGHBORS DO NOT KNOW WHAT AN EMERGENCY SITUATION WOULD BE WHEN THOSE DIESEL, DIESEL GENERATORS WILL HAVE TO RUN. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW FOR HOW LONG? TWO HOURS, FIVE HOURS, 24 HOURS, TWO DAYS. RIGHT. THIS IS WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU ALL TO, UM, RECOMMEND TO CITY COUNCIL THIS SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION BECAUSE IT WOULD GIVE THE, THE PUBLIC THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS AND TO GIVE FEEDBACK AND TO SHARE THEIR CONCERNS. BECAUSE THE OTHER THING WE DON'T KNOW IS WHICH DATA CENTERS HAVE THE, UH, DIESEL GENERATORS THAT, UM, HAVE THE MOST ADVANCED POLLUTION CONTROLS ON THEM. AND THERE ARE, RIGHT? THERE ARE, BUT THE NEIGHBORS DON'T KNOW THAT. WE DON'T KNOW THAT Y'ALL AREN'T GOING TO, UM, I WOULD HOPE THAT Y'ALL WOULD ASK, BUT, UM, THAT'S NOT BEING ASKED. AND WE'RE NOT, THE NEIGHBORS ARE NOT BEING TOLD. I MEAN, THERE'S LITERALLY VANTAGE DATA CENTER. THERE'S A HOUSE JUST LIKE A COMMUNITY POLE RECREATION CENTER, A A PLAYGROUND LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET, AND YOU CAN HEAR THE HUM FROM THAT DATA CENTER 24 7. SO NOT ONLY DO THESE NEIGHBORS HAVE A 240 MEGAWATT GAS PLANT ACROSS THE STREET, THEY HAVE 85 BACKUP DIESEL GENERATORS. THE OTHER VANTAGE DATA CENTER HAS 65 AND 120 MEGAWATT GAS PLANT POWER PLANT ACROSS THE STREET. DID THOSE PEOPLE HAVE A SAY ABOUT THAT BEING LOCATED NEXT TO THEM? SO, OKAY. THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE GENTLEMAN IN THE SUIT REAL QUICK. YOU HAVE A SMALL DATA DATA CENTER, RIGHT? YEAH. MR. GREG, MR. GREG, UH, CAN YOU JUST TELL ME REAL QUICK, UH, DO THESE DATA DATA CENTERS HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR ENVIRONMENT AS FAR AS WATER, AIR, WILDLIFE, TREES? YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA TAKE A PAGE OUTTA THE BOOK FROM THE GENTLEMAN BEHIND ME AND SAY, I'M REALLY NOT QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I'M A TECHNOLOGIST. WHAT I'LL TELL YOU THOUGH IS THAT WE DO NOT USE WATER IN OUR DATA CENTER OPERATION. WE ARE VERY LOW POWER CONSUMPTION, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. I THINK WE RUN OUR GENERATOR ONCE A WEEK FOR 15 MINUTES WHEN IT'S NOT AN EMERGENCY. AND OUTSIDE OF THAT, WE'RE FAIRLY QUIET ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. AND AGAIN, 25 YEARS, [04:05:01] NOT A SINGLE COMPLAINT. GREAT. PERFECT. THANK YOU. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA? UH, YES. QUESTION FOR, FOR STAFF HERE. UM, I WROTE EVERYTHING DOWN AND NOW I DELETED IT. I'M JUST KIDDING. OKAY, SO, UH, WERE THERE ANY, UH, TALKS ABOUT, UH, PROTECTIONS DISCUSSED OVER LIKE THE CARRIZO SPRINGS OR CARRIZO, UH, WILCOX AQUIFER, UH, PORTIONS OF SAN ANTONIO OR EVEN LIKE THE WORLD HERITAGE, UM, BUFFER ZONE AREA WITHIN THE CITY? I MEAN, I HEAR THAT WE'RE DOING THE EDWARDS AQUIFER, BUT I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT, I MEAN, OF COURSE EDWARD AFER IS KIND OF IMPORTANT TO, TO ME 'CAUSE I DRINK IT, BUT, UM, WHAT, WHAT THE OTHER AQUIFERS DISCUSS OR LIKE OTHER AREAS? NO, JUST THE EDWARDS RECHARGE ZONE DISTRICT. OKAY. AND WHY WAS THAT? WHICH IS NOT BECAUSE IT MIRRORS THE ZONING ORDINANCES WE HAVE ON FILE FOR ANY OTHER USE IN THE CITY. OKAY. OKAY. UH, SAME QUESTION FOR STAFF, UH, FOR, UH, WILL, THESE ARE THE TWO OPTIONS, NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO. UM, HAVE ANY IMPACT OF FUTURE APPLICATIONS FOR DATA CENTERS LOCATED WITHIN? UH, WELL, WELL, I'M SORRY. LET REPHRASE THAT. WELL, EITHER OF THESE OPTIONS HAVE ANY IMPACT OF FUTURE APPLICATIONS FOR DATA CENTERS LOCATED IN THE CITY'S ETJ OR OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS. EXAMPLE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, HELLO THIS, UH, LEON VALLEY, ANYTHING OUTSIDE THAT THAT, AND THE REASON WHY I ASK THAT IS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE SHARE SAWS, WE SHARE CPS, WE SHARE WITH MULTIPLE, UH, UH, MUNICIPALITY. YEAH. THE ONLY SITUATION THAT I COULD THINK OF, UH, AND IT APPLIES TO A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THE ETJ, IS THE CITY'S EXTRATERRITORIAL JURISDICTION, MILITARY PROTECTION AREAS THAT ENABLE US TO EXTEND LAND USE CONTROLS INTO COMMUNITIES SURROUNDING CAMP BOLUS AND LACKLAND AIR FORCE BASE, WHERE WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENFORCE ZONING, BUT WE ARE ALLOWED TO ENFORCE BROAD LAND USE CATEGORIES. WHAT TYPICALLY GOES TO PLANNING COMMISSION? SO IF SOMEONE CAME TO THE CITY, UH, AND THEY WERE IN THE MILITARY PROTECTION AREA AND THEY HAD A LAND USE OF LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN AMENDMENT IF THEY INTENDED TO BUILD A DATA CENTER. BUT THAT AGAIN, APPLIES TO A VERY SMALL PORTION OF OUR ETJ. OUTSIDE OF THAT, NO, IT WOULDN'T. GOTCHA. AND MY ONLY CONCERN IS 'CAUSE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WE MAKE HERE, I MEAN WE'RE, I THINK THE TWO MAIN FACTORS WOULD BE THE USAGE OF WATER, WHICH I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM, UM, AND, AND ENERGY. BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST MOVE OVER TO A LOTUS AND I MEAN, THAT'S TECHNICALLY OUR INFRASTRUCTURE OR ENERGY PRODUCTION AS WELL. UH, NEXT WOULD BE, IS THERE A RED LINE VERSION OF LIKE FOR, FOR OPTION THREE THAT SHOWS LIKE WHICH BULLETIN POINTS ITEMS THAT CITY OF SAN ANTONIO CANNOT ENFORCE AS THE AUTHORITY FALLS TO ANOTHER, UH, LIKE REGULATORY, UH, AGENCY, LIKE A, UH, ECEQ, UH, TCEQ OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO I WANT TO BE VERY CAREFUL AND NOT CONVEYING THAT WE CAN'T DO THOSE THINGS. WE HAVE SOME CONCERNS AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES, BUT I'M NOT GONNA STAND BEFORE THE ZONING COMMISSION TODAY AND SAY THAT CITY COUNCIL CANNOT PURSUE A 1000 FOOT SETBACK OR, YOU KNOW, A 45 DAY PRE-FILING NOTICE. I'M JUST HERE TO SAY THAT WE DON'T DO A LOT OF THOSE THINGS FOR ANYTHING ELSE. UH, THE ONE THAT I WOULD, I MEAN, REQUIRING TWICE AS MUCH GREEN SPACE THAT'S GETTING CLOSE TO A LINE THROUGH IT, BECAUSE WE DON'T DO THAT FOR ANY OTHER NON-RESIDENTIAL USE IN THE CITY. AND THAT'S NOT EVEN, LIKE I SAID, THAT'S NOT EVEN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. THAT'S OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. OKAY. UH, AND WHY IS STAFF PROPOSING, UH, SUP INSTEAD OF, UH, LIKE CONDITIONAL USE WHERE, UH, WE CAN ADD A SPECIFIC CONDITIONS EXAMPLE, LIKE DOWNWARD LIGHTING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? YOU, YOU CAN CERTAINLY ADD SPECIFIC CONDITIONS TO AN S YOU CAN ADD ALMOST THE SAME. IN FACT, I THINK THAT THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT CONDITIONS. YOU CAN TACK ONTO AN S THAT THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO IN A CD THAT YOU CAN'T DO IN AN S UM, SO A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION AS I TRY TO DESCRIBE IT, YOU KNOW, IS A RECOGNITION THAT IT MAY BE PERFECTLY FINE, BUT IT MAY NOT BE. AND WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT JUST TO CONFIRM. GOTCHA. CONDITIONAL IS WHEN WE'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE TRYING AS SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CONDITIONS, SOMETHING THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE PERMITTED IN INDUSTRIAL CAN BE CONDITIONED DOWN. THEY'RE SIMILAR, BUT I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. YES. IT DOES. AND REAL QUICK ON BOTH OPTIONS, UH, THE, ON THE ACTUAL SHEET, [04:10:01] THERE'S A, LIKE FOR C3, THERE'S AN S FOR L THERE'S AN S, AND THEN FOR LIKE, UH, I, ONE, THERE'S AN S FOR PRO FOR THE DATA CENTER, BUT LIKE UNDERNEATH, THERE'S A P. CAN, CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT DOES THE S AND THE P STAND FOR? S SO IN OPTION TWO, THE S IS A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION REQUIRED, AND OPTION ONE, THE P MEANS PERMITTED, BUT IT IS PERMITTED PROVIDED YOU MEET THE CONDITIONS. IF YOU DON'T MEET THE CONDITIONS IN OPTION ONE, THEN YOU STILL NEED THE S. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, AND I, I GUESS I HAVE A QUESTION FOR CPS IF JAKE FROM, UH, UH, FROM CPS CAN COME UP. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T GET YOUR LAST NAME. LET'S GET THIS RIGHT. IT'S LAST NAME RIGHT THIS TIME. BISSELL. AND WHY ARE YOU COMING UP, JAKE? UH, THE, THE QUESTION IS WHAT, WHAT IS A, A GIGAWATT NO, I'M JUST KIDDING. IS THAT, IS THAT FROM BACK TO THE FUTURE, ONE POINT 21 GIG GIGAWATTS. ANYWAY, THE QUESTION IS WOULD BE, UH, HOW, HOW MUCH POWER CAN CPS HANDLE IN ABOUT 30 SECONDS? ? WELL, I, I GUESS LET ME, LET ME RE BE MORE, UH, FOR, FOR A DATA CENTER, I MEAN, IS IS THERE A DATA CENTER THAT WOULD BE TOO BIG TO SUPPLY ENERGY FOR? NO, THE ANSWER'S NO. RIGHT? THAT, UM, GIVEN THE TIME WE'RE OBLIGATED TO SERVE AND WE WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT. GOTCHA. AND THEN, UH, THIS MAY BE A TOTAL DIFFERENT SUBJECT, BUT UH, I HEAR LIKE, UH, WHEN I DO A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH HERE, LIKE THERE'S TRANSMISSION LINE 7 46 OR 7 27 65, 7 65, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE LOOKED TOWARD TO IMPLEMENT HERE AS FAR AS DEBT AS, AS DATA CENTERS BECOME MORE RELEVANT AND REQUIRE MORE POWER USAGE? UM, SO THE IDEA BEHIND IMPLEMENTING 7 65 KV OR 765,000 VOLT, YOU KNOW, VOLT TRANSMISSION LINES, UH, WAS ALSO THE RESULT OF LEGISLATIVE ACTION IN THE 2023 SESSION. IT WAS NOT, IT IS NOT TARGETED AT DATA CENTER. IT IS TARGETED AT MORE EFFICIENTLY MOVING POWER AROUND THE STATE. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE IS A GOOD ANALOGY TO HIGHWAYS, RIGHT? UM, THERE IS MORE LOAD IN TEXAS AND THERE'S MORE GENERATION IN TEXAS TO SUPPORT THAT LOAD. YOU NEED MORE LANES ON YOUR HIGHWAY TO MOVE THOSE ELECTRONS EFFICIENTLY ACROSS THE STATE. GOTCHA. AND THEN I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS, BUT I THINK, OR I HAVE ONE QUESTION, BUT I THINK YOU CAN ANSWER PART OF IT, AND MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO OWNS A DATA CENTER, UH, CAN HELP ME WITH THE, THE OTHER PART, SO I'M UNFAMILIAR WITH DATA CENTERS BECAUSE I DRIVE A 1994 FORD EXPLORER , AND I JUST READ THE PAPER LAST MONTH. I JUST CANCELED MY SUBSCRIPTION. SO I'M A LITTLE BEHIND. BUT, BUT MY QUESTION IS, DOES DATA CENTERS NEED TO BE IN A CERTAIN PROXIMITY OF EACH OTHER OR A LOCATION? I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP OF SAN ANTONIO, LIKE, WHICH IS UP RIGHT NOW, I MEAN, IF THE CITY I'M JUST SAYING WILL SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, NO DATA CENTERS WITHIN 1604. DOES THAT SOMEWHAT HELP CPS HER TPS OR THE ACTUAL USAGE OF A DATA CENTER? DOES THAT HAVE IMPLICATIONS? SO, UH, SO I, YOU KNOW, I NOT AN EXPERT ON DATA CENTER UHHUH, SO I DON'T WANNA RESPOND TO IS THERE BENEFITS TO CO-LOCATING OR, OR LOCATING SITES. BUT I WILL TELL YOU, THERE IS MORE CHALLENGE IN BUILDING LARGE SCALE UTILITY INFRASTRUCTURE IN AN URBAN SETTING, RIGHT? THEN THERE IS IN A SUBURBAN OR RURAL SETTING, SIMPLY, YOU KNOW, OR MAYBE WHAT I'M SAYING, WOULD IT, AND I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST THINKING OUT THE AIR RIGHT HERE, RIGHT? UH, IF WE PUT ALL DATA CENTERS ON 1604 AND 2 81, I'M JUST MAKING IT UP, RIGHT? WOULD THAT BE EASIER FOR CPS TO SUPPLY THAN, UH, AND THERE'S LET SAY 10 DATA CENTERS COMPARED TO HAVING IT ALL AROUND THE CITY. AND THESE ARE HUGE ONES. YEAH. MASSIVE. SO I THINK IT WOULD BE MORE CHALLENGING THE MORE DENSELY LOCATED THEY ARE. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO COME UP, MR. GREEN, I BELIEVE, RIGHT? GRAY, GRAY. I'M SO SORRY. WRONG COLOR. YEAH, WE'RE GETTING THERE. SO AS FAR AS PROXIMITY AND, AND LOCATION OF, SO, SO A COUPLE THINGS. IF WE WERE TO TAKE ALL THE DATA CENTERS AND PUT THEM IN ONE AREA, THERE'S A LOT OF RISK, UH, WHEN YOU DO THAT IN THE SENSE THAT THESE DATA CENTERS OFTEN HOST MISSION CRITICAL SERVICES FOR MULTIPLE TYPES OF CUSTOMERS. THAT COULD BE YOUR INSTAGRAM, THAT COULD BE YOUR CLOUD, YOUR CHAT, GPT, WHATEVER. UH, AND YOU PROBABLY WANT THAT TO STAY UP AND ALIVE. SO DISPERSING THEM GEOGRAPHICALLY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT FROM A RISK MITIGATION STANDPOINT, SEPARATE TO THAT, YOU AS THE CUSTOMER TYPICALLY REALLY LIKE WHEN YOUR DATA LOADS QUICKLY. AND THAT'S THE POINT OF THESE MICRO DATA CENTERS AND THESE EDGE COMPUTE TYPE DATA CENTERS. IT'S SIMPLE PHYSICS. THE CLOSER THAT YOU KNOW, OUR LIGHT IS TO DELIVERING ITSELF TO YOUR DEVICE, THE FASTER YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE DATA THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO OBTAIN. GOT YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND ONE LAST QUESTION FOR LOGAN. LOGAN, REAL QUICK. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE, UM, UH, PROXIMITY [04:15:01] OR THE 500 FEET, UH, BARRIER, RIGHT? YOU SAID IT GOES FROM THE DATA CENTER TO THE ACTUAL, LIKE R FOUR FOR THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, UH, PLACE. AND YOU MENTIONED THAT IF THERE'S AN R FOUR, LIKE RIGHT NEXT DOOR AND THERE'S NO BUILDING YET OR SOMETHING AND IT DOESN'T COUNT, SO HOW WOULD THAT LOOK ON THE END WHERE, YOU KNOW, I HAVE AN R FOUR PROPERTY OR SOMEBODY HAS AN R FOUR PROPERTY AND THEY WANT TO COME IN AND THEY WANT TO BUILD SOMETHING. HOW DOES THAT GET AFFECTED IN THIS SCENARIO? DOES THE DATA CENTER ALREADY EXIST? YES. THE DA THE DATA CENTER ALREADY EXISTS. IT, IT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT JUST SAY ALL AROUND IT WAS R FOUR. YES. AND SO THEY, THEY'RE GOOD TO BUILD, BUT NOW THE, THE OWNERS FOR R FOUR, CAN THEY BUILD? YES, THEY CAN BUILD, BUT, BUT THEN THE DATA CENTER WILL BE OUTTA COMPLIANCE? THAT'S CORRECT. WE'RE, WE'RE NOW AT YOUR TIME AND OKAY. THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, MR. SPARROW, I'M GONNA USE VERY LITTLE OF MY TIME. UM, ALRIGHT. ONE THING YOU SAID IS THAT YOU DID NOT LOOK AT WATER USAGE, CORRECT? CORRECT. YOU DID NOT LOOK AT ENERGY USAGE, CORRECT? CORRECT. UM, BECAUSE THIS IS ZONING COMMISSION, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. AND WE ARE LOOKING AT RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO US UNDER THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU CREATED OPTION ONE AND OPTION TWO, UH, BASED ON SORT OF THE TOOLS THAT WERE AVAILABLE, IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? YES. ALRIGHT. NOW, IF WE WANTED TO DICTATE AS A CITY, NOT AS ZONING COMMISSION, BUT AS A CITY, IF WE WANNA DICTATE THAT EVERY SINGLE, UH, EVERY SINGLE DATA CENTER HAD GEN FOUR BACKUP GENERATORS, WE COULD POTENTIALLY DO THAT AS A CITY, MAYBE THROUGH BUILDING. SO CODES AND AUDREY MAY JUMP IN ON THIS. WELL, HOW ABOUT THIS? LET ME ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION THEN. I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA WITHDRAW THAT. LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION. IS THAT SOMETHING WE COULD OR SHOULD DO THROUGH ZONING? NO, NO, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN AGAIN. NO, WAIT. YES, YES. COMMISSIONER LAWSON. UM, THIS FORMAT MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT TRICKY, BUT I SAW THAT, I THINK MS. HAYNES LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE GONNA SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE WATER QUESTION. YOU'RE WITH GREATER EDWARDS AQUIFER LIGHTS. JUST WANTED TO INVITE YOU UP, UH, TO SHARE WHATEVER IT LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE ABOUT TO SAY, BUT I KNOW WE HAVE A STRICT KIND OF FORMAT HERE, SO THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. UM, SO YES, MINE, UH, I WAS, I WAS WANTING TO WEIGH IN ON THE RECYCLED WATER AND THE WASTEWATER QUESTION. AND, UH, THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY FOR SAN ANTONIO. MUCH OF THIS IS AN ANALYSIS OF ACROSS THE BOARD NATIONAL AND STATEWIDE THAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO OVER THE PAST YEAR. AND THERE'S A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT CONCERNS WHEN IT, WHEN IT COMES TO WATER. UH, THE FIRST IS THE WASTEWATER CONCERN. UM, AGAIN, EVERY FACILITY IS DIFFERENT. I THINK THAT'S ONE THING WE CAN TAKE AWAY FROM THIS DISCUSSION TODAY IS EVERY SINGLE DATA CENTER IS DIFFERENT. UM, SOME DATA CENTERS TRUCK THEIR WASTEWATER OFFSITE AS HAZARDOUS MATERIAL. SOME ARE ABLE TO TREAT IT TO CONDITIONS WHICH ALLOW IT TO BE PUT BACK INTO THE, UM, THE CITY SEWER SYSTEM. UM, THERE'S DIFFERENT DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS, LACK THEREOF IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. THERE'S NOT A, UM, A DIFFERENT SET OF PERMITTING RULES FOR WASTEWATER IN TEXAS. SO THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT THE WASTEWATER, EVEN IF IT'S A CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM, EVENTUALLY, TEN EIGHT YEARS FROM NOW, THAT WILL NEED TO BE FLUSHED AND REFILLED. THAT'S A WASTEWATER CONCERN. IF IT'S NOT A TRUE CLOSED LOOP SYSTEM OR IF AN EVAPORATIVE COOLER IS NEEDED DURING HOTTER TEMPERATURES, WHICH, UM, OFTEN IS THE CASE IN TEXAS, THERE WILL BE WASTEWATER ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. AND SO THERE, THERE ARE CONCERNS, AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT A ZONING ISSUE, BUT IT IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER. ONE OF THE ZONING CONCERNS WE WOULD HAVE, AND THIS IS WHY WE ARE ADVOCATING FOR PROPOSAL TWO, IS THAT THE LARGER DATA CENTERS HAVE SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF IMPERVIOUS COVER, WHICH LEAD TO SIGNIFICANT STORM WATER AND, UH, FLOODING CONCERNS. THERE'S ALREADY BEEN SOME, UM, DOCUMENTATION OF DOWNSTREAM, UM, STORM WATER IMPACTS FROM SOME OF THE LARGER SCALE DATA CENTERS THAT HAVE GONE IN ON THE WEST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO AND THE EAST SIDE OF MEDINA COUNTY THAT HAVE BEEN DOCUMENTED. SO IMPERVIOUS COVERING STORM WATER IS A CONCERN. AND THEN FROM A WATER USE PERSPECTIVE, AGAIN, EACH FACILITY IS DIFFERENT. A LOT OF THEM HAVE, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S BEEN TALK THAT MOST OF THEM ARE USING RECYCLED WATER. I'VE, I'VE HEARD DIFFERENT NUMBERS OF HOW MANY IN THIS, THIS CITY ARE USING RECYCLED WATER. WE KNOW IT'S NOT ALL OF THEM AND SAWS WILL EVENTUALLY BE TAPPED OUT. AND SO THEN THEY, WE WILL START TO HAVE WATER CONCERNS EVEN IF THEY ARE DOING CLOSED LOOP. THERE'S INITIAL FILLS, THERE'S CONSTRUCTION, THERE'S EVAPORATIVE COOLING DURING THE HOTTER TEMPERATURES. AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S OUR CONCERNS THAT YOU THANK YOU. I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER LO. COMMISSIONER DUBEL, UH, MR. GRAY, WHY DON'T YOU, UH, COME ON UP AGAIN. SORRY FOR JUMP UP AND DOWN JOIN THE CLUB. YES, SIR. SOMETHING, UH, THAT CAME UP EARLIER, UH, ABOUT [04:20:01] INFRASTRUCTURE AND UTILITIES MADE ME THINK ABOUT THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT. UH, SO I MEAN, IS IT TRUE THAT DATA CENTERS ARE GONNA BENEFIT FROM HAVING BUILT IN UTILITY AND FIBER ACCESS TO THAT? LIKE, THAT'S NOT UBIQUITOUS ACROSS THE CITY. YOU CAN'T JUST PICK A RANDOM LOT AND ASSUME THAT THERE'S GONNA BE THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND FIBER NEEDS. THAT'S CORRECT. SO WITH, AND TO BE CLEAR, YOU CAN BUILD THAT STUFF OUT BY GETTING IN CONTACT WITH THE APPROPRIATE UTILITIES, WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT CERTAINLY LIKE THE LOCATION WHERE WE ARE, WE'RE VERY LUCKY TO BE ON A FIBER RING. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE EXIST TODAY, IS WE HAVE EXCELLENT CONNECTIVITY THERE TO BEGIN WITH. SO ARE THOSE, UH, FIBER RINGS AND OTHER, YOU KNOW, HIGHER INFRASTRUCTURE, ARE THEY TYPICALLY PLANNED OUT IN ADVANCE OR ARE WE SEEING THEM POP UP? ARE THEY IN OFFICE PARKS? ARE THEY THEY DO A LOT OF PLANNING BECAUSE IT'S QUITE AN INVESTMENT TO BUILD OUT NETWORKS LIKE THAT. UH, THERE'S A LOT OF THOUGHT THAT GOES INTO IT. AND TYPICALLY THEY'LL PLAN THEIR KIND OF THEIR TRUNK ROUTE AND THEN THEY'LL REACH OUT TO CUSTOMERS KIND OF ALONG THAT ROUTE TO SAY, HEY, WOULD YOU LIKE A CONNECTION OFF OF THIS THING WE'RE BUILDING OUT? BUT IT VARIES GREATLY, UH, FOR, AND SORRY IF THIS IS OUTSIDE YOUR BALLPARK, BUT ABSOLUTELY. BUT IS IT FAIR THAT FOR US TO ASSUME THAT THERE'S A HIGHER, HIGHER LIKELIHOOD THAT INDUSTRIAL ZONES ARE GONNA HAVE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE THAN SAY, COMMERCIAL ZONES? OR IS IT JUST MIXED? IT, IT, IT'S GENERALLY GENUINELY, IT'S, IT'S A MIX. AND A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IN TERMS OF LATENCY. SO GEOGRAPHIC PROXIMITY IS SIMPLY A PHYSICS ADVANTAGE, UH, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT IF THE INDUSTRIAL SITES NEED IT, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE FIBER BUILT OUT. I'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF WEST TEXAS, BUT IN OTHER CASES, THEY CARE MORE ABOUT THINGS LIKE LATENCY AND THEY'LL DO POINT TO POINT WIRELESS LINKS. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT VARIES GREATLY. SO WITH THAT IN MIND, WITH THOSE INFRASTRUCTURE REQUIREMENTS IN MIND, WHAT, WHAT SIZE OF AN, UH, DISTANCE REQUIREMENT IS GONNA START WOULD, WOULD START COMPLICATING THE, THE TECHNOLOGY SOLUTION FOR, FOR DEVELOPERS OF THESE DATA CENTERS? SO HOW, HOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE, LIKE THE 500 FOOT A THOUSAND FOOT DISTANCE REQUIREMENT. I MEAN, THAT'S THROWING A FOOTBALL, UH, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF BUILDING OUT THE SORT OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, IS THE QUESTION THAT YOU'RE ASKING, ESSENTIALLY IF IT'S 500 FEET, DOES THAT IMPEDE THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE UTILITY BECAUSE THAT DISTANCE REQUIREMENT FROM A PURE, PURE SITE SELECTION, OH, SITE SELECTION, DOES THE 500 COMPLICATE, YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING FOR SITES THAT HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE, DOES THAT COMPLICATE SITE SELECTION OR IS IT NO DIFFERENCE? 500 NO DIFFERENCE. THEY WOULD BUILD OUT TO THE POINT OF REQUEST ESSENTIALLY, WHICH SAY REALLY THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. BUT AGAIN, IT'S A CASE BY CASE BASIS. OKAY. LOGAN, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING. I MEAN, CERTAINLY IF UNDER THE PREMISE OF OPTION ONE, THE LARGER THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT IS, THE MORE ELIGIBLE PROPERTIES WITHOUT A ZONING PROCESS FALL OFF THAT MAP. GOT IT. OKAY. UH, THE, UH, LAST QUESTION ABOUT THE SPECIAL USE, UH, PERMITS, UM, IN HEAVY INDUSTRIAL, UH, GAS AND CHEMICAL PROCESSING, DOES THAT REQUIRE AN S WITHIN HEAVY INDUSTRIAL? I WOULD HAVE TO PULL UP THE USE MATRIX. I WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME IF IT DID. I, I MEAN I, AT LEAST WHEN I LOOKED IT UP AND I CAN'T VERIFY THIS, YEAH, IT LOOKED LIKE IT. I TWO, IT DIDN'T REQUIRE IT, IT REQUIRED AN I ONE AND NOT AN I TWO. BUT, SO I MEAN, I GUESS THE QUESTION WOULD BE WOULD IT MAKE SENSE FOR US TO CONSIDER NOT HAVING AN SI MEAN, LIKE THAT S IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR SOMETHING LIKE AN I TWO WHERE IT MIGHT BE YOU, YOU COULD CERTAINLY CONSIDER THAT THAT'S WELL WITHIN THIS COMMISSION'S AUTHORITY TO RECOMMEND. AND THEN LASTLY, ANY ANALOGS? I'VE BEEN TRYING TO THINK ABOUT ANALOGS TO MAKE A, A COMPARISON TO LOOK AT THE CODE AND SAY, HEY, WE TREAT OTHER USES LIKE THIS. IS THAT ANY ANALOGS TO HELP US? I MEAN, IF, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT JUST OTHER USES THAT HAVE DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS BAKED INTO THEM, UH, GAS STATIONS HAVE TO BE KELLY, IS IT, I KNOW IT'S DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE TANKS, ONE OR 200 FEET, 200, 300 FEET, 200, 300 FEET AWAY FROM RESIDENTIAL USES. THAT'S FOR NAUSEOUS GAS PURPOSES. UM, WE'VE HAD THE BREATH ORDINANCE THAT YOU HAVE TO, IF YOU'RE GONNA BE A VAPE SHOP OR WHAT DO WE CALL IT, HEMP RETAIL. YOU GOTTA BE A THOUSAND FEET AWAY FROM SCHOOLS AND DAYCARES. SO THANK YOU MR. SPARROW. THANK YOU. AND COMMISSIONER DUEL, THAT'S YOUR TIME. COMMISSIONER WHATSUP. [04:25:01] ONE QUICK ONE AND I, I GUESS IT'S EITHER FOR CPS OR UH, MICROSOFT. HOW THE EXISTING PLANT THAT I GOT A TOUR OF AND LOGAN GOT A TOUR OF AND I THINK SOMEBODY ELSE, HOW MANY, HOW MUCH POWER IS THERE AT THE PLANT BEING USED RIGHT NOW? DID ANYBODY KNOW? THAT'S MY, THAT'S MY QUOTE. IF YOU'D COME UP, INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND YOUR ADDRESS AND AVERY AFRICA FROM STREAM DATA CENTERS. UM, AND I DON'T HAVE A LOCAL ADDRESS, SO, UH, CAN YOU GIVE THE ADDRESS OF STREAM? IT'S 1601. YEAH. WEST MILITARY DRIVE. THANK YOU. SORRY. UM, HOW MUCH IT WILL USE 200 MEGAWATTS WHEN IT'S FULLY BUILT OUT? RIGHT NOW IT ONLY USES 50. YEP. BUT THE CURRENT ONE BUILDING IS WHAT, 50 50? YEAH, THAT'S ALL. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER KELLY, I GUESS I HAVE JUST KIND OF A GENERAL OBSERVATION AND NOPE, YOU DON'T, YOU HAVE A QUESTION GOING ON? I HAVE, I HAVE A QUESTION. NOT YET. STAFF, HOW ABOUT THAT? OKAY, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. UM, SO, UM, THE GOAL OF THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT SETBACK REQUIREMENT, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE'RE MISSING, UH, A GRADATION. WE DON'T HAVE A GRADATION ON SOME OF THESE SETBACKS AND THE REQUIREMENTS BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE DATA CENTER. SURE. AND THAT'S WHY I ASKED MY QUESTION EARLIER ABOUT HOW MANY OF 'EM ARE MEGA CENTERS AND HOW MANY ARE SMALLER. UH, BECAUSE I THINK IT JUST SEEMS TO ME LIKE WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THIS IN A GRADUATED WAY. AND I WOULD ASK YOU IF YOU'VE THOUGHT THROUGH THAT AND, AND HOW DID, HOW DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE ARE ACCOUNTING FOR THE DIFFERENT SIZES? YEAH, I I MEAN THERE'S, THERE'S CERTAINLY, UM, WE HAD AT OUR INITIAL STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS SOME DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD BE A TIERED APPROACH TO THIS. SHOULD IT BE DATA CENTERS PLUS MINUS 50,000 SQUARE FEET, KINDA LIKE GAS STATIONS. IT'S, WE, THE DISTANCE YOU HAVE TO BE IS TIERED TO THE SIZE OF THE TANKS. UM, THAT, THAT WASN'T ULTIMATELY THE DIRECTION THAT IT WENT. I THINK THERE'S CERTAINLY A CONVERSATION TO BE HAD. THERE'S SOME LOGIC THERE. UM, YOU KNOW, I I THINK A LOT OF THE CONCERN I'VE HEARD IS FOLKS SAYING, WELL, I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT A REALLY TINY DATA CENTER LIKE SOME OF THE, THE GENTLEMEN HERE TODAY, BUT IT'S 2,500 SQUARE FEET IN AN 80,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING. IT'S NOT THE PRIMARY USE OF THE PROPERTY. SO WE'RE NOT GONNA CALL THAT PRIMARILY A DATA CENTER. SO THIS DISTANCE REQUIREMENT WOULDN'T APPLY TO IT ANYWAY, I THINK THAT HELPS TO MITIGATE SOME OF THAT PROBLEM. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT. OKAY. MY SECOND QUESTION, I GUESS, UM, THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT ALSO IS TRYING TO ADDRESS THE NOISE IMPACTS. AND I JUST WONDER IF YOU THOUGHT THROUGH OR HAVE CONSIDERED USING A DECAL REQUIREMENT AS OPPOSED TO A DISTANCE REQUIREMENT TO, TO ADDRESS THE NOISE IMPACTS? SO WE CERTAINLY DID, AND THERE WERE MEMBERS OF OUR TASK FORCE THAT SAID THE SOLUTION TO THE WHO, WHO CARES HOW CLOSE YOU ARE AWAY FROM SOMETHING ELSE IF YOU PRODUCE NO NOISE OR VERY LITTLE NOISE. I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IS IN ACCURATELY MEASURING THAT. UH, I, I SPOKE EARLIER THAT WHEN I, WHEN I TOURED THE DATA CENTER, YOU KNOW, LOOP 1604 WASN'T THAT FAR AWAY. YOU COULD HEAR CARS, JBSA PLANES OVERHEAD WERE A LOT LOUDER THAN THE GENERATORS. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DROWN OUT ALL THAT NOISE ON A NOISE STUDY. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANY NOISE EXPERTS IN THE ROOM. MAYBE THERE'S A WAY. UM, BUT YEAH, TO YOUR POINT, THE DISTANCE IS EXACTLY THAT. IT'S A NOISE MITIGATION TECHNIQUE. 500 FEET MIGHT NOT BE THE RIGHT ANSWER. MAYBE I, SOME FOLKS ADVOCATED FOR LESS. UM, I THINK ONE OTHER ISSUE TO BRING UP HERE IS IT'S BEEN DISCUSSED BY A COUPLE OTHERS. THIS IS AN INDUSTRY THAT IS CHANGING VERY QUICKLY AND WE ARE LOOKING AT STANDARDS TODAY TO MITIGATE TODAY'S DATA CENTERS. YOU KNOW, CELL PHONES USED TO BE AN AWFUL LOT BIGGER. WHAT DO DATA CENTERS LOOK LIKE 15, 20 YEARS FROM NOW? YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A CODE AMENDMENT PROCESS IN THE CITY THAT EVERY FIVE YEARS WE HAVE A CHANCE TO AMEND OUR CODE TO REFINE IT. ONE OF THE REASONS WE DO THAT, IT'S IN OUR UDC, IS TO ACCOUNT FOR CHANGES IN TECHNOLOGY AND QUITE FRANKLY, TO CHANGE FOR OR TO ACCOUNT FOR CHANGES IN STATE LAW. SO WE'RE ANTICIPATING A UPCOMING LEGISLATIVE SESSION WHERE I WOULD BE VERY SURPRISED IF THERE WAS NOTHING RELATED TO DATA CENTERS THAT CAME OUT OF IT. SO WHETHER IT'S NEXT YEAR AS WE JUMP INTO THE UDC AMENDMENT PROCESS, UH, NEXT YEAR ON THE 90TH TEXAS LEGISLATIVE SESSION [04:30:01] OR SIX YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, I DON'T THINK THIS WILL BE THE ONLY TIME WE'RE BEFORE YOU WITH SOME CODE AMENDMENTS FOR DATA CENTERS. FINAL, I GUESS QUESTION THE, UM, I GUESS THE SETBACK IS NOT ONLY FOR NO, IT'S ALSO FOR AESTHETICS AND HAVING A LARGE LOOMING FACILITY RIGHT NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL HOMES, FOR INSTANCE. SO, UH, I GUESS THAT NEEDS TO BE FACTORED IN. SO I, I'M NOT SAYING THAT I THINK THAT A DECIMAL IMPACT WOULD BE A FULL REPLACEMENT FOR A DISTANT, I'M JUST CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT SOME COMBINATION OF BOTH MIGHT BE NEEDED. AND THE, THE OPTION A, IT INCLUDED TWO THINGS. ONE WAS A MINIMUM DISTANCE FROM RESIDENTIAL AND SCHOOLS AND THOSE OTHER USES, THAT'S NOISE. IT ALSO PROPOSED A 50 FOOT SETBACK. SO FROM ITS OWN PROPERTY LINE TO THE BUILDING 50 FEET, THAT'S FOR AESTHETICS WHEN COMBINED WITH THE LANDSCAPING BUFFER YARDS. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH MR. SPARROW. COMMISSIONER SIPES. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. TWO QUICK QUESTIONS. UM, ONE FOR LOGAN. UM, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE REALLY CAN'T REGULATE ENERGY OR, OR THAT'S NOT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW HERE IN ZONING, BUT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIZES, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SIZES OF DATA CENTERS. UM, COULD WE, ARE WE ONLY LIMITED TO, UH, CATEGORIZING DATA CENTERS BY SQUARE FOOTAGE OR CAN WE CATEGORIZE THEM BY THE AMOUNT OF MEGAWATT LOAD? AND, AND SO THE DISCUSSION, THE REASON I'M SAYING THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAD DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW AI CENTERS USE, UH, FIVE TO 10 TIMES THE ENERGY OF THE OLDER DATA CENTERS. SO I'M NOT SAYING WE CAN'T CATEGORIZE THEM BY WHETHER IT'S ENERGY USAGE OR WATER CON, WHAT, BUT THERE ARE SERIOUS CHALLENGES TO THAT UP TO AND INCLUDING IN THE LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION. AND AUDREY, CORRECT ME IF I MISSTATE THIS, A BILL PASSED THAT PROHIBITS, LIKE WE CANNOT REQUIRE THAT THEY DISCLOSE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO USE. WE CAN'T. YOU THERE, IT USED TO BE IN THE NEWS, YOU KNOW, HERE ARE SAN ANTONIO'S BIGGEST WATER USERS. THOSE ARTICLES WENT AWAY BECAUSE OF THAT LAW. SO WE COULD POTENTIALLY BE PLACED IN A SITUATION WHERE IF WE'RE, IF THAT'S THE WAY WE'RE REGULATING THEM, WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT DATA AND WE CAN'T MAKE THEM GIVE IT TO US. AND THAT MAKES CLASSIFICATION REALLY HARD. , SO I'M SENSING NO, NO WOULD BE A GOOD ANSWER. , BUT OKAY. GOTCHA. IT'S JUST VERY HARD. YES. UM, MY SECOND QUESTION, UM, MIGHT EITHER BE, UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THIS OR IF, UH, MR. KAUFMAN KNOWS THIS, BUT, BUT THE, THE DATA CENTER THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THAT, THAT, THAT SOME WENT ON A TOUR, WHAT IS THE ZONING OF THAT PROPERTY? GIVE ME A COUPLE MINUTES, I'LL GET IT FOR YOU. 1601 WEST MILITARY. IS IT 1604, YES. OR 1604. JUST NORTHWEST OF THAT. AND THAT'S ALL MY QUESTIONS. ALRIGHT, WELL WILL YOU, WE'RE LOOKING UP THAT WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON, UH, IF STAFF CAN GET BACK TO US. NO, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA TO YOU QUESTIONS? NO, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO HEAR THOUGH. NO QUESTIONS. . THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, QUESTION JUST REAL QUICK. UH, CLERICAL IF FOR ME, UH, OPTION TWO IS THE SAME THING AS OPTION B, RIGHT? AND OPTION ONE IS THE SAME THING AS OPTION A. OKAY. IT WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE CONSISTENT. THAT'S JUST THE EDUCATOR IN ME. UM, SO IF OPTION TWO IS APPROVED, HOW WOULD CITY STAFF RECOMMEND LIKE, APPROVAL OR, OR NOT APPROVAL? WE'RE GONNA LOOK AT THAT ON A CASE BY BASIS. I, I MEAN, OPTION TWO GIVES US, GIVES AN APPLICANT, GIVES A COMMISSION AND A COUNCIL A LOT MORE FLEXIBILITY. SO THERE, THERE'S MORE OPPORTUNITY TO NEGOTIATE AN INDIVIDUAL SITE PLAN THAT I THINK GIVES THE, THE COMMISSION MAYBE AT LEAST SOME MEMBERS OF IT, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE COMFORT. BUT I, I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH CASE AS IT CAME IN. AND BECAUSE WE, WE BROUGHT UP THE, LIKE THE EDWARD EDWARDS AQUIFER, UH, RECHARGE ZONE AS AN AREA, WOULD, WOULD THAT TAKE MORE PRECEDENCE OVER LIKE A DIFFERENT IN, IN ALL THREE OPTIONS? WE ARE PROPOSING THAT DATA CENTERS ARE PROHIBITED OVER THE EDWARDS RECHARGE ZONE. DON'T EVEN SUBMIT THE APPLICATION. THE ANSWER IS NO. OKAY. OKAY. AND UH, WAS THE EXISTING FIBER RING TAKEN INTO CONSIDER CONSIDERATION ON WHERE THESE LARGE LOAD OPERATORS ARE DEEMED APPROPRIATE? [04:35:01] THAT IS NOT, NOT EVEN MAYBE A CPS QUESTION. THAT'S PROBABLY MORE A DEVELOPER OF THE DATA CENTER QUESTION IF ANY OF THEM CONSIDER IT. GOTCHA. NOW I'M FINE WITH THAT. UM, IF, IF THE DATA CENTERS HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN SAN ANTONIO FOR, FOR THE PAST 25 YEARS, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT, AS HE SAID, UH, WHAT, WHAT NECESSARILY, UH, WHAT NECESSARILY CHANGED THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR THESE OPTIONS? UH, NOW, I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO READ THE MINDS OF THE GENTLEMAN THAT SUBMITTED THE CCR. GOTCHA. OKAY. BUT I WOULD SUSPECT THAT SCALE AND PACE CERTAINLY PLAYED A ROLE AND I KNOW WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA BE DOING, UH, THE NEXT, UH, UDC AMENDMENT CYCLE STARTS IN JANUARY. UM, AND IT SEEMS A LITTLE, JUST A LITTLE BIT TO ME. I MEAN, WOULD THERE BE A, IT SEEMS NOT, IT'S A RUSH, BUT I MEAN THAT STARTS IN ABOUT THREE MONTHS, RIGHT? ISH. SO WOULD, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER TO JUST POSTPONE IT TO THE NEXT UDC ADJUSTMENT OR JUST AGAIN, I GUESS IT'LL BE CCR RIGHT? SINCE WE HAVE TO YEAH. SO THE, THE CITY IS THE APPLICANT FOR THIS CASE AND WE ARE NOT SEEKING A POSTPONEMENT. OKAY. UM, I, I I WOULD REMIND YOU THAT THE CCR THAT STARTED THIS PROCESS WAS FILED OCTOBER 29TH, 2025. WE ARE SET TO GO TO A SESSION TENTATIVELY OCTOBER 29TH, 2026. IT IS TO THE DAY A YEAR LONG PROCESS. YEAH. AND, AND THIS GOT BROUGHT UP AGAIN, UH, BUT I'M GONNA BRING UP ONE MORE TIME. SO THE SIZE, UH, OF, OF THE DATA CENTER, WAS THAT EVER LIKE, THOUGHT LIKE, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, A DATA CENTER ABOVE A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE OR WHATEVER? YEAH. EXACT SAME THING. YEAH. I'M JUST TRYING TO SEE IF I CAN GET AN ANSWER. SAME. THERE WAS CERTAINLY SOME DISCUSSION ON IT, BUT IT WAS NOT ULTIMATELY WHERE WE LANDED WITH ANY OF THE OFFICE. OKAY. AND MY FINAL QUESTION IS, BECAUSE WHAT I HEAR, UM, CAN, AND I, I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT I JUST WANNA JUST SEE, CAN WE REQUIRE, UH, A, A NEW DATA CENTER COMING IN TO HAVE A CLOSED LOOP WATER SYSTEM? BECAUSE I, I HEAR, WELL THERE'S A NEW SYSTEM, THERE'S THIS, BUT WHAT IF A DATA CENTER COMES IN AND SAYS, WELL I DON'T WANT TO USE A CLOSED LOOP. THAT, THAT KIND OF SCARE ME. SO CAN WE DO THAT? THAT IS A QUESTION MORE FOR SAWS. AND SAWS CAN ADOPT POLICIES AS THEY SEE FIT AS THE WATER EXPERTS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROCESS. I HAVE TRIED TO DEPLOY A PREDICTABLE SET OF TOOLS FOR REGULATING ZONING AND LAND USE. WE DON'T REGULATE THE WAY WATER IS CONSUMED INSIDE OF ANY OTHER USE THAT I AM AWARE OF. AND I DID NOT PROPOSE TO INTRODUCE STATUS. YEAH. AND I THINK THE CHAIR BROUGHT THAT UP EARLIER AS WELL. UH, JUST HAVE THAT QUESTION THOUGH. BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH SIR. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. YES. MORE OF A STATEMENT THAN A QUESTION. NO STATEMENTS. ALRIGHT THEN, THEN I'LL ASK IT. I'LL ASK A QUESTION IN LINE WITH MY STATEMENT, THEN I ASKED THE CHOOSING THE OPTION. WE CAN CHOOSE IN A COMBINATION OF OPTION TWO OR ANY OF EITHER A COMBINATION, ANY OF THE THREE. YES. ALRIGHT, PERFECT. JUST SO MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN MM-HMM . MIX AND MATCH THERE. SO THANK YOU. THAT'S IT. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER PAN. I ONLY HAVE COMMENTS. OKAY. WE WILL GET TO THEM. I PROMISE. I PROMISE EVERYONE CAN GIVE THEIR OPINION. WE'RE JUST NOT DOING IT NOW. UM, ALRIGHT. THERE WAS SOMETHING I FORGOT TO ASK AND IT'S FOR YOU, UH, MR. BISSELL. MR. BISSELL, ONE THING THAT WAS RAISED WAS SORT OF ONSITE GENERATION, UH, FROM I GUESS NON CPS SOURCES. DO YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THAT HERE IN SAN ANTONIO? LIKE SPECIFICALLY HERE? SO I WILL TALK ABOUT A TREND, RIGHT? OKAY. UM, THAT WE HAVE THAT WITHOUT SPEAKING ABOUT SPECIFIC CUSTOMERS, UM, THERE HAS BEEN TALK ABOUT DIESEL GENERATORS. UM, THE TREND IN THE INDUSTRY ACCORDING TO WHAT WE HAVE, HAVE SEEN IS ALMOST EVERY DATA CENTER IS GOING TO HAVE DIESEL GENERATORS FOR THE PURPOSES OF EMERGENCY BACKUP WHEN THE GRID GOES DOWN. THAT IS ONE THING A LOT OF BUSINESSES EMPLOY THAT VERY SAME THING. THEN THERE IS, FOR EXAMPLE, HOSPITALS, CORRECT? HOSPITALS, MILITARY, YOU KNOW, MILITARY SUPPORT FACILITIES, EX EXACTLY. THEN THERE IS THE IDEA OF GENERATING POWER WHILE WE, THE UTILITY ARE CONSTRUCTING THE NECESSARY INFRASTRUCTURE TO DELIVER A FULL GRID CONNECTION. WE CALL THAT BRIDGING POWER. RIGHT? UM, THE LAW PURE, WHICH IS PUBLIC UTILITY REGULATION. A SORRY, YOU HAVE TO FORGIVE ME, BUT YEAH, WHAT, WHAT, UM, THERE YOU GO. ACT, THANK YOU. A VERY EASY WORD, UM, ALLOWS CUSTOMERS TO SELF GENERATE ELECTRICITY WHEN THE UTILITY CANNOT PROVIDE THAT FOR THEM. RIGHT? SO IT IS NOT UNLIKE YOU CAN PUT A GAS GENERATOR AT YOUR HOUSE AND YOU CAN GENERATE THAT POWER. CPS ENERGY IS PROTECTED FROM THE THIRD, FROM THE [04:40:01] RESALE OF THIRD PARTY ELECTRICITY, RIGHT? WE'RE A REGULATED ENTITY. WE HOLD THE, THE CUSTOMERS IN OUR REGULATED TERRITORY CAPTIVE. UM, SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS, CAN A DATA CENTER DEVELOPER DECIDE TO PUT SOME OTHER GENERATION SOURCE ON THEIR PROPERTY WHILE WE ARE CONSTRUCTING THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO CONNECT THEM? THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS YES, AND THAT IS A DECISION THAT THEY MAKE. OKAY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. UH, RELATEDLY, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, UH, MR. BISSELL, I'M SORRY. DO YOU KNOW, UH, WHAT IS, IF YOU KNOW, IS THERE A STANDARD PRACTICE AS TO HOW MANY SUBSTATIONS TEND TO FEED THESE DATA CENTERS TODAY? SO CPS SUBSTATIONS A LARGE LOAD CUSTOMER, UH, UH, WE STARTED THIS PROCESS BY, WE HAVE DEFINED LARGE LOAD CUSTOMER REGARDLESS OF THE USE TYPE AT 40 MEGAWATTS. BECAUSE TODAY IN OUR PLANNING PROCESSES, THAT'S WHEN WE WOULD CONSTRUCT A DEDICATED SUBSTATION FOR YOU. UM, YOU KNOW, TODAY DATA CENTERS ARE, CAN BE CONNECTED TO THE EXISTING POLES AND WIRES, THE EXISTING DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, WHICH MEANS THEY MAY BE SERVED FROM MULTIPLE SUBSTATIONS AS THE SIZE OF THE LOAD REQUEST GOES. THE LIKELIHOOD OF THEM HAVING A DEDICATED ONSITE SUBSTATION EITHER OWNED AND OPERATED BY CPS ENERGY OR OWNED AND OPERATED BY THE CUSTOMER, WHICH IS AN OPTION THAT THEY HAVE GOES UP. GREAT, THANK YOU. UM, MR. SPARROW, WHEN IT COMES TO ZONING, ARE WE ABLE TO ZONE CPS SUBSTATIONS? I'M GONNA NEED TO LOOK. AM I ASKING TERRIBLE QUESTIONS? WE, WE DEFINITELY HAVE UTILITIES LISTED IN OUR USE MATRIX SUBSTATION. I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. IT DOESN'T MATTER, BUT I CAN FIND OUT. IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU CAN ANSWER ME LATER. UH, ALRIGHT. THAT IS THE , THAT IS THE END OF, SO, SO UNDER THE UDC, IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT THE UDC APPLIES TO SAWS AND CPS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT USE THAN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. ANYONE, JUST GIVE ME A NOD. A YES, THAT'S A DIFFERENT USE THAN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY. . MY ANSWER IS RELATED TO, DEPENDING ON THE REGULATIONS THAT GET ADOPTED, THERE MAY BE SOME THINGS IN THE UDC THAT APPLY AND THERE MAY BE OTHER THINGS THAT DO NOT. AS A LAWYER, I ALWAYS RES, I ALWAYS RESPECT, DEPENDS, UM, AS AN ANSWER, NOT IN ANY OTHER CONTEXT. UM, ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. UH, IN THAT CASE, UH, THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE HAD TWO ROUNDS OF QUESTIONS. CHAIR. YES. DID WE EVER GET AN ANSWER ON WHAT THAT PROPERTY WAS ZONED? OH YES. IT'S L IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ZONED L LIGHT INDUSTRIAL. OKAY, THANK YOU. SORRY. NO, I, I DID THIS AND I WASN'T ADDRESSING ANYONE AT SOME POINT. UM, BUT UM, ALRIGHT, , ANY EVENT? UH, WE'VE HAD TWO ROUNDS OF QUESTIONS. UH, EACH COMMISSIONER HAS BEEN ALLOTTED 15 MINUTES. UH, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW CLOSED, AS I MENTIONED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS ITEM. WE ARE NOW GOING TO HAVE, UH, OUR DISCUSSION, WHICH WILL BE FOLLOWED BY A POTENTIAL MOTION. ALRIGHT, WE ARE GOING TO START WITH COMMISSIONER PANNA AND WE'RE JUST GONNA GO DOWN SKIPPING ME AND I'LL BE LAST MR. ABOUT OUR GENERAL COMMENTARY FOR, I WILL ONLY STOP YOU IF YOU GET WAY FAR AFIELD, BUT IT'S GOT TO BE PRETTY FAR AFIELD. ALL RIGHT. LET'S SEE. UM, MY ROLE AS A REALTOR AND A RELOCATION DIRECTOR IS AT MY COMPANY CALLS FOR GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT IN OUR CITY. UM, BUT I, I DON'T LIKE TO ROMANTICIZE INVESTMENTS AND GROWTH. UM, WE ARE A FAVORABLE MARKET. WE OWN OUR UTILITY COMPANIES. UM, ECONOMIC AND EMPLOYMENT IMPACT ARE NOT GOING TO BE THAT SIGNIFICANT FROM DATA CENTERS, IN MY OPINION, FOR OUR RESIDENTS. UM, TRUE THAT THE CITY WOULD GAIN FROM THE PROPERTY TAXES THAT THEY WILL MAKE FROM THESE PROPERTIES. BUT ON THE FLIP SIDE, THERE'S A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE THAT EXISTS OR WOULD EXIST IN AND AROUND THESE CENTERS. UM, I'VE BEEN LICENSED FOR 10 YEARS. THERE'S A STIGMA, UNFORTUNATELY, THERE IS A TABOO ON C3 INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURING SITES. I'VE NEVER HAD AN A CLIENT COME TO ME AND EXPRESS EXCITEMENT, UM, FOR BUYING A HOUSE THAT'S LOCATED NEXT TO SUCH SITES OR EXCITEMENT FOR, YOU KNOW, [04:45:01] POWER PLANTS, JAILHOUSES, UH, SIMILAR STRUCTURES GOING UP IN AND AROUND THEM. SO I THINK IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT TO SAY THAT DATA CENTERS ARE IN AND AROUND RESIDENTIAL AREAS WILL DECREASE THE VALUE IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION. UM, WE SET ZONING REGULATIONS FOR EVERY BUSINESS. SO TO SET A FEW SIMPLE AND REALISTICALLY, AND MY OPINION ACHIEVABLE RULES FOR DATA CENTERS IS A SMALL PRICE TO PAY FOR THEM COMING IN TO DO BUSINESS IN OUR CITY. UM, EARLIER WE SPENT, AS YOU HEARD, I THINK ABOUT 45 MINUTES TELLING A LADY THAT SHE COULD NOT SELL CARS ON, I THINK IT'S LESS THAN A QUARTER OF AN ACRE LAND THAT SHE OWNS. SO I URGE THE COMMISSION TO STAY CONSISTENT WITH THEIR JUDGMENT CALLS. UM, I BET THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE HERE WOULD NOT WANT A DATA CENTER GOING UP NEXT TO THEIR HOUSE AND THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. WE HEARD HOW DIFFERENT EACH DATA CENTER FUNCTIONS. SO SETTING A CONSISTENT ZONING RULE DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD. THE DISTANCE THAT WE REQUIRE IS NOT SPECIFICALLY AN O EXCUSE ME, ONLY FOR NOISE, BUT IT IS ALSO FOR SAFETY AND ENVIRONMENTAL EFFECTS. UH, WITH ALL OF THAT SAID, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO PUT IN PLACE SOMETHING THAT IS A PROTECTION FOR THE EXISTING DATA CENTERS IN OUR CITY. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER PANA. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. UH, FIRST LEMME SAY THAT I'M ALL FOR FAST INTERNET WHILE MY JTP TO BE WORKING REALLY QUICK, BUT PUTTING THAT ASIDE, WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE BEST INTEREST OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA BE LIVING AROUND THESE DATA CENTERS. UH, SO WITH THAT SAID, UH, WHEN WE ARE, WHEN THE COMMISSION OURSELVES ARE MAKING THIS CHOICE, UH, I BELIEVE WE NEED TO MAKE A, UH, CHOICE OF, UH, ACCEPTING A COMBINATION OF OPTIONS, WHATEVER YOU FEEL BEST. UH, BUT OPTION THREE FOR ONE AND THEN ONE OF THE OTHER OPTIONS. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA, I THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, DATA CENTERS, I, I REALLY DON'T, ME PERSONALLY, I DON'T REALLY CARE FOR TECHNOLOGY, BUT MY SON DOES AND MY DAUGHTER, AND I THINK THAT'S THE FUTURE. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NEIGHBORS. IT'S ABOUT WHERE YOU LIVE. AND LIKE A FELLOW COMMISSIONER SAID DOWN HERE, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WOULD WANT A DATA CENTER BUILT RIGHT NEXT DOOR. UM, BUT I I, I AM NOT ABOUT PUTTING REGULATIONS IN MORE GOVERNMENT. HOWEVER, IN CERTAIN CASES THIS IS A NEW TECHNOLOGY. THIS, THERE'S, THERE ARE SOME, IT, IT'S GROWING FAST, SO THERE SHOULD BE SOME SORT OF OVERSIGHT, SOME SORT OF REGULATION ZONING. UM, BUT ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY TO CITY COUNCIL. SO THEY WILL ULTIMATELY HAVE THE LAST IS, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. COMMISSIONER LO. YEAH, I APPRECIATE WHAT'S BEEN SAID THUS FAR. ON THE NOTE OF BEING A RECOMMENDING BODY, WHICH I FEEL LIKE WE REPEAT A LOT. UM, WE'RE APPOINTED, NOT ELECTED. AND I THINK A LOT OF THE ROLE WE PLAY HERE IS LIKE WE, WE DO REPRESENT CONSTITUENTS, BUT THEY DIDN'T PUT US HERE. WE KNEW SOMEONE IN OFFICE WHO PUT US HERE. AND TO ME IT SEEMS THAT OPTION TWO AND THREE, I'LL SAY OPTION ONE, DENIES THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND SPEAK. I THINK THAT DOES A DISSERVICE TO OUR WHOLE PROCESS. WE TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS. WE HEAR FROM NEIGHBORS, WE HEAR FROM IMPACTED PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE IMPACT. I THINK THOSE ARE IMPORTANT DISCUSSIONS. I HAVE MY OWN FEELINGS ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL AND POLLUTION IMPACT AND ALL THE DATA CENTERS AS A WHOLE, BUT I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT'S OUR ROLE. UM, SO I VERY MUCH SUPPORT THE OPTIONS THAT OFFER AN OPPORTUNITY FOR INPUT FROM NEIGHBORS. AGAIN, WE DON'T LIVE NEXT TO DATA CENTERS, NOT ALL OF US. IF YOU'RE IN D SIX, YOU PROBABLY DO, BUT, UM, JUST WANTED TO OFFER THAT. I THINK WE HAVE TO BE AWARE OF OUR ROLE AND OFF, LIKE WE RESPECT THE PROCESS OF INPUT FOR EVERY OTHER CASE. I DON'T KNOW WHY WE WOULDN'T DO IT FOR THIS ONE AS WELL. COMMISSIONER BEL, I JUST WANNA TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR SITTING HERE FOR, UH, WHAT IS THIS, LIKE, ALMOST SIX HOURS. UH, THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING A PART OF THE PROCESS. UM, I'M GOING TO TAKE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT APPROACH ABOUT THE RECOMMENDING BODY THING. UH, WE ARE HERE, WE ARE A STATUTORY, UH, THAT MEANS WE'RE REQUIRED BY STATE LAW TO BE HERE TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON ZONING DECISIONS. UM, IT'S, IT'S PART OF THE DELIBERATIVE PROCESS. I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE DOING OUR WORK HERE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. UM, AND IT, IT DOES MATTER. IT'S NOT MERELY, UH, YOU KNOW, LIKE, OH, WE CAN PASS THE BUCK TO THE COMMISSION OR THE, [04:50:01] UH, TO THE COUNCIL. UH, WE'RE HERE TO, TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE COUNCIL SO THAT THEY CAN, UH, MAKE THOSE HARD DECISIONS. UM, I'M GONNA VERY BRIEFLY, THE THREE THINGS THAT I THINK ARE WORTHY OF, UH, BRINGING UP. FIRST ONES, THE, THE, JUST THE DEFINITION FOR THE, UH, APPLICABILITY OF THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT AND OR THE SPECIAL USE AUTHORIZATION THAT WE'VE BEEN FLOATING AROUND. I THINK THAT DEFINITION NEEDS TO GET TIGHTENED UP. UH, ALL THE CONCERNS ABOUT DATA CENTERS AND THE NEWS AND AMONG THE PUBLIC, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE 2000 SQUARE FOOT PROJECT, IT'S ABOUT THE HYPERSCALERS OR THE BIG, BIG PROJECTS. SO WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, GOING WITH A, UH, MEGAWATT DEFINITION AT 40, 50, 75, OR A SQUARE F FOOT, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENT AT 10 OR A HUNDRED. I THINK FINDING SOME WAY TO, UH, MAKE THAT DISTINCTION WOULD BE VALUABLE. UM, AS FOR DISTANCE, I THINK IT'S CLEAR THAT THE 500 REQUIREMENT IS TOO HIGH. THAT IT, IT DIDN'T COME OUT OF A, A GOOD SPOT. I HEARD, AT LEAST ON THE RECORD, COMMENTS FROM, YOU KNOW, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT EVEN AT 150 FEET, YOU CAN'T DISTINGUISH THE, THE NOISE FROM THESE FACILITIES. UM, SO SOMETHING IN, YOU KNOW, DOWN THAT RANGE FROM, FROM 500, I THINK IS, IS NECESSARY, UH, TO BE, TO BE REASONABLE ABOUT IT. UM, AS FOR THE YES, HEAVY INDUSTRIAL USES, THAT'S I TWO. GAS AND CHEMICAL PROCESSING, HEAVY MANUFACTURING, UH, MATERIALS HANDLING, METAL FABRICATION ARE ALL ALLOWED WITHOUT AN S IN I TWO. WHY WOULD WE NOT ALLOW, ALLOW COMPUTERS IN I TWO WITHOUT AN S? THAT'S SILLY. THAT'S NONSENSE. I ONE AUTOMOTIVE AND SALVAGE LOGISTICS AND FREIGHT, LIKE FREIGHT TERMINALS ARE ALLOWED IN I ONE WITHOUT AN S WHY WOULD WE REQUIRE COMPUTERS TO HAVE AN I AN S THAT THAT'S NOT REASONABLE. UH, THE ONE AREA WHERE I THINK IT COULD BE ARGUABLY REASONABLE IS THE C3. UH, FOR SOME OF THE REASONS MEMBERS OF, YOU KNOW, HAVE MENTIONED ABOUT PROXIMITY TO RESIDENTIAL. IF, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL CAN EXPECT TO BE NEXT TO A HOME DEPOT CENTER, UH, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTS THAT LIVE NEXT TO AN INDUSTRIAL, IT'S AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT MATTER. SO, THANK YOU. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. DUBEL. COMMISSIONER, WHAT'S UP? UH, I'M GONNA PUSH THE BUTTON AND THEN I'M GOING TO, UH, SAY THAT I AM GENERALLY IN AGREEMENT WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER VILLE AND I'M NOT GOING TO, UH, EXPOUND ON THAT A WHOLE LOT OTHER THAN TO SAY THAT I AM SUPPORTIVE, UH, A ALONG WITH MARK WHITE'S, UH, PROPOSAL TO ADD TO THAT. AND I SPECIFICALLY, I THINK I WOULD SUPPORT 250 FEET AND IF WE COULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO WORK THE MEGAWATT DEAL INTO IT, THAT WOULD, THAT MIGHT HELP, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SMALLER, UH, FACILITIES TO KIND OF LEAVE THEM ALONE AS TO BEST WE CAN. AND, UM, I'LL LET IT MOVE ON DOWN THE PATH HERE. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. WHAT'S IT? COMMISSIONER KELLY? WELL, AS I'VE BROUGHT UP BEFORE, I THINK OUR, WE'RE LACKING A LITTLE BIT IN OUR, UH, ACCOMMODATION OF DIFFERENT SCALE. UH, I JUST, UH, UH, FEEL LIKE THAT WE NEED A LITTLE MORE TIME TO WORK THROUGH THAT. UH, I PERSONALLY WOULD PROBABLY AT THIS POINT, UH, UH, MORE LIKELY FAVOR OPTION BI GUESS IT IS, EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT TOTALLY IN, UH, IN ALIGNED WITH ALL OF IT. BUT I THINK THAT, UM, MAYBE WE WOULD LEARN SOMETHING OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS AND THEN MAYBE COME BACK WITH A MORE OF A, A STANDARDIZED PROCESS. LIKE THE OPTION A, UH, UNDERSTAND THE INDUSTRY'S NEED FOR UNDERSTANDING A CONSISTENT REQUIREMENT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. AND I THINK, UH, ONE OF THESE DAYS WE'LL GET THERE. I'M JUST NOT SURE WE'RE QUITE READY YET. THAT'S MY OPINION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER KELLY? COMMISSIONER SIPES. YEAH, I'M NOT IN THE, UM, ALL A, ALL B ALL C OR ALL 1, 2, 3 CAMPS. UM, I, THERE'S PARTS OF EACH ONE THAT I, THAT I, UM, SUPPORT. UH, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, UH, THE ZONES OF, UH, THE INDUSTRIAL ZONES AND I WANT I TWO I THINK PERMIT, YOU KNOW, LEAVING THAT AS PERMITTED BY RIGHT IS, IS FINE. UM, I DO THINK THOUGH THAT WHEN YOU GET INTO THE L AND WHEN YOU GET INTO THE, UH, C3 THAT, YEAH, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME COMMUNITY INPUT. UM, SO IT'S KIND OF A MIX. I DO LIKE MARK WHITE'S DEFINITION. UM, I ALSO APPRECIATE, UH, UH, MAYOR ORTIZ JONES, UH, SOME OF HER RECOMMENDATIONS FOR, UM, THE SHIELDING. AND UM, I DO [04:55:01] ALSO SUPPORT PERHAPS REDUCING TO 250 FEET, UM, THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS, UM, THE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHILLERS AND NOISE, WHEN, UM, I THINK A 50 FOOT DISTANCE IS, IS WAY TOO SMALL. UM, AND YOU KNOW, I'VE MENTIONED IN PREVIOUS, UH, MEETINGS HOW WE ALWAYS GO BACK TO WHERE WE LIVE. UM, SO IN AN OLDER AREA WE HAVE SCHOOLS THAT HAVE BEEN RENOVATED. AND SO IN MY AREA, THEY RENOVATED A SCHOOL AND MOVED THE CHILLER TO, UM, DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM, UM, THE NEIGHBORS. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE RESIDENTIAL ON ONE SIDE ACROSS THE STREET IS WHERE THE SCHOOL IS. THE CHILLER NOW FACES TOWARDS THE NEIGHBORS AND IN THEIR YARD, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CONSIDER THE RIGHT OF WAY PLUS THE FRONT YARD, I MEAN AT THEIR HOUSE, YOU CAN HEAR THAT CHILLER AT ALL TIMES. AND I'M THINKING, OKAY, WELL THAT'S AT LEAST 50, 60, 70 FEET. SO YES. SO I THINK THIS, THE, THE 50 FOOT BARRIER AND STUFF LIKE THAT I THINK IS WAY TOO SMALL. 250 WITH SOME, UM, SHIELDING THAT COULD BE DETERMINED LATER. BE IT, UM, SOLID GROUTED, CMU WALLS, WHO KNOWS? UM, BUT UM, BUT I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION OF ALL OF THEM. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SIPES. I ALSO AGREE, UM, THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ATTRIBUTES FOR THESE ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER. UH, COMBINATION OF OPTION ONE, COMBINATION OF OPTION TWO, UM, SOME OF THE NON-CONFORMING ISSUES, WHICH CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS ON THE EXISTING CENTERS HERE, WHICH SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED, UM, GIVEN THAT THEY PLAYED BY THE RULES AND THAT'S WHAT THE NON-CONFORMING USE LANGUAGE WOULD ADDRESS. UM, SO I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION. I'M GOING TO MOVE FOR A COMBINATION OF OPTION ONE AND OPTION TWO WITH SOME SLIGHT MODIFICATIONS AS WELL AS, UH, COUNCILMAN WHITE'S DEFINITION AND A SIMILAR NON-CONFORMING USE. UH, LOGAN, DO YOU WANT A COPY? I CAN GIVE YOU THAT, BUT THAT'S FRONT AND BACK. IT'S THREE PAGES LONG . UM, AND THIS IS, THIS IS GONNA BE HARD TO DO AND IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING THAT I THINK THE COUNSEL NEEDS TO ADDRESS MORE LIKELY. BUT WITH RESPECT TO THE DEFINITION AND WITH RESPECT TO SORT OF SIZE CONCERNS, I THINK LOGAN'S POINT REGARDING PRIMARY USAGE FOR MR. GRAY, MR. WHITAKER, AND I'M SORRY SIR, I DIDN'T GET YOUR NAME, BUT THEIR DATA CENTER IS, UH, YOU KNOW, GOING TO BE EXEMPTED THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT REVIEW PROCESS BY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. SO AT THIS POINT I MOVE, AND THIS IS, THIS IS GONNA BE UGLY, BUT I'M GONNA TRY IT. I MOVE TO RECOMMEND, UH, AMENDMENT TO SECTION OR THE CREATION OF A NEW 35 DASH 3 98 0 4 DATA CENTER DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS. ALONG THE FOLLOWING LINES, DATA CENTERS WILL BE OR MAY ONLY BE ALLOWED IN C THROUGH C3 THROUGH MI TWO AS LISTED HERE. THIS IS THE SAME, UH, THAT'S LISTED IN EVERY OPTION ONE AND TWO AT LEAST. YEAH. UM, LOCATION AND PLACEMENT. UM, SO THIS WOULD ALLOW PERMISSION BY RIGHT FOR ONLY L THROUGH MI TWO, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO HAVE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT FOR L UM, BUT THE REQUIREMENTS FOR L THROUGH MI TWO IN MY ORIGINAL MOTION ARE VERY SIMILAR TO THOSE IN OPTION ONE, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT IT HAS A 250 FOOT SEPARATION FROM ALL PRINCIPAL BUILDINGS, ONSITE POWER GENERATION AND FUEL STRUCTURES TO ANY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE SCHOOL, DAYCARE CENTER ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY OR HOSPITAL, UH, STILL HAVE A MINIMUM TYPE D UH, LANDSCAPE BUFFER FOR THE AESTHETICS ASPECTS. UH, ADDITIONALLY A 50 FOOT SETBACK. SO THAT WOULD ALLOW, UM, UH, DATA CENTER TO BE BUILT IF THEY WANT TO BURN THROUGH 250 FEET ON THEIR SETBACK, THEY CAN DO IT. IF THEY WANT TO ONLY USE THE MINIMUM 50 FEET, [05:00:01] THEY WILL HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR ANOTHER 200 FEET TO THE NEXT RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE HOSPITAL, ET CETERA. UH, NO ERZD, UH, INCLUDING DOWNWARD FACING LIGHTING. WE HEARD FREQUENTLY THAT, UH, PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT LIGHT POLLUTION. THESE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS, UM, UNDER MLR ONE, WHICH IS THE MILITARY LIGHTING OVERLAY DISTRICTS THAT WE HAVE IN OUR CODE RIGHT NOW. AND AGAIN, JUST TO MAKE IT PERFECTLY EXPLICITLY CLEAR, THE NOISE ORDINANCE WOULD APPLY HERE, WHICH MEANS THAT FOR AN INDUSTRIAL USE, IT WOULD BE 72 DECIBELS AT THE PROPERTY LINE. THAT'S WHAT THAT IS. BY THE WAY. I DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT IT'S A FUN LITTLE FACT. UH, RIVER CENTER AREA AT NIGHT IS 80 DECIBELS, SO KEEP THAT IN MIND. UM, SORRY, NOT RIVER CENTER, BUT THE RIVER WALK. OKAY. UH, FOR ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT MEET THOSE REQUIREMENTS UNDER B, WHICH MEANS L THROUGH MI TWO AND MEETING EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE AS AN OPTION ONE, THEY WOULD GO THROUGH A SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION, ADDITIONALLY, C3 UNDER MY ORIGINAL MOTION, BUT WOULD WELCOME A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT, UH, WOULD ALSO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION AGAIN, AS I THINK COMMISSIONER VE AND WOODS SAID, YOU KNOW, WE USE A LOT OF INDUSTRIAL USES. I DON'T SEE WHY AN ASPHALT PRODUCTION CENTER THAT WOULD BE RUNNING TRUCKS ALL THE TIME WITH HEAVY LOADS IS SOMEHOW MORE DANGEROUS OR NEEDS GREATER REGULATION THAN A DATA CENTER. UM, I INCLUDED THE SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION LANGUAGE, I BELIEVE FROM OPTION TWO. UH, THE DEFINITION IS COMM, UH, COUNCILMAN WILL ASSET COMMISSIONER WHITE, BUT HE HASN'T BEEN A COMMISSIONER HERE IN QUITE SOME TIME. UH, COUNCILMAN WHITE'S DEFINITION, UH, THAT IS BORN AS COMMISSIONER SIPES SAID, BECAUSE I LIVE, UH, IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WITH AN AT AND T SWITCHING CENTER AND HAVE FOR THE PAST 10, 12 YEARS. UH, AND SO I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS EXEMPTED. AND AGAIN, I THINK BOTH DEFINITIONS PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR MR. GRAY AND MR. WHITAKER'S SMALLER DATA CENTER. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK ANY MORE PROTECTION WE CAN GIVE IS BETTER AND IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE DEFINITION, AWESOME. IF IT GETS OUT OF HERE, GO TO, UH, COUNSEL IF IT GETS OUT OF HERE. UH, AND THEN FINALLY, I WOULD RECOMMEND ADDING SECTION 35 7 0 2 E, WHICH IS AN ANALOG TO THE SPECIFIC USE AUTHORIZATION, UH, THAT WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY PASSED RELATING TO METAL RECYCLING ENTITIES, BUT ALLOWS FOR, UH, NONCONFORMING USES NONCONFORMING RIGHTS. THAT IS MY MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND CHAIR? I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. UM, MAYBE A POINT OF ORDER QUESTION, UM, FOR TIME SAKE. SO LET'S SAY I'M OKAY WITH 90% OF THIS, BUT THERE'S LIKE ONE OR TWO THINGS I WOULD LIKE TO, TO CHANGE. HOW, HOW, HOW DOES ONE, HOW DOES A COMMISSIONER DO THAT WITHOUT DENYING THE WHOLE THING AND DOING IT A RESET? UH, WELL YOU CAN OFFER A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT AND IT CAN BE ACCEPTED IF THERE IS A SECOND. UM, AND OTHERWISE WE GO THROUGH AND BRICK A BRACKET, THIS THING, YOU KNOW, MODULARLY OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. UM, SO THAT'S THE ANSWER. I'LL SECOND IT. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER ELL IS A SECOND, UH, DISCUSSION. LET'S GO WITH COMMISSIONER HENO HOSA DOWN TO COMMISSIONER PANNA AND THEN COMMISSIONER SIPES TO COMMISSIONER LO. I, I, OKAY, SO, UH, I GUESS, SO CHAIR, I HAVE A QUESTION. CAN I, CAN I GET A COPY OF THIS? SURE. JUST I CAN KIND OF, THERE YOU GO. UM, I MEAN, WE'RE RUNNING A LITTLE LATE, BUT I DIDN'T BRING COPIES FOR EVERYONE 'CAUSE I WAS TRYING TO AVOID THAT. COULD, COULD WE JUST GO BACK TO THE FIRST PAGE, BUT OTHERWISE WE COULD ALL READ IT ON THE SCREEN? YEAH. COULD YOU GO BACK TO THE FIRST PAGE PLEASE? SO I GUESS I WOULD LIKE TO, SO THIS WOULD BE A TIME TO KINDA MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT OR, YEP. OKAY. SO I'D LIKE, CAN MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO, TO REMOVE, UH, ONE C3. SO, SO WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET AT, I I, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A DATA CENTER WITHIN C3. SO HOW WOULD THAT WORK? UM, ALRIGHT. I DO NOT ACCEPT THAT AMENDMENT. [05:05:01] I THINK A SPECIFIC USE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE FOR C3. I, I DON'T KNOW HOW I WOULD VOTE FOR IT WHEN, IF THAT WERE TO OCCUR, BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE. OKAY. SO THIS, THIS COULD BE A LONG NIGHT, RIGHT? 'CAUSE EVERY COMMISSION IS GONNA GO DOWN THE, THE ROW AND WE'RE JUST GONNA KIND OF OH, OKAY. UM, . OKAY. AND ONE MORE, UH, POINT OF ORDER HERE. SO WE'RE GONNA GET TWO ROUNDS JUST SO I CAN KIND OF, I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT THIS A LITTLE BIT FOR, I'LL SKIP MY ROUND. SURE. OKAY. ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, WHY DON'T WE TAKE 10 AND CAN WE GET, WE'LL GET YOU COPIES. THAT'D BE GREAT. YEAH, WE'LL DO THAT. YEAH. YEAH. THANK YOU. UH, WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR APPROXIMATELY 10 MINUTES. THE TIME IS 6 23. ALRIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IF WE COULD RETAKE OUR SEATS PLEASE? YEAH. VERY GOOD. ALRIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE TIME IS 6:36 PM AND THIS MEETING OF THE ZONING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS BACK IN SESSION. UH, COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA, I APOLOGIZE FOR CUTTING YOU OFF. UH, SIR, NO PROBLEM. NO PROBLEM. THANK YOU CHAIR. UH, I WOULD LIKE TO ADD A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO, UH, NUMBER ONE HERE FOR THE, UH, THERE SHALL BE AT LEAST 250 FEET TO CHANGE THAT TO 350 FEET ACCEPTABLE. OKAY. UH, NEXT ONE WOULD, NOPE, HOLD ON. OH, SORRY. DO YOU ACCEPT IT COMMISSIONER ELL AS THE SECOND? NO. OKAY. OKAY. NEXT, NEXT WOULD BE, UH, FOR NUMBER FIVE. NUMBER FOUR WHERE IT SAYS NO LIGHT EMITTED ABOVE 90 DEGREES. UH, JUST A WORD CHANGE TO DOWNWARD LIGHTING. ACCEPT, ACCEPT. YOU GOT THIS. SORRY. MR. SPARROW, DO YOU HAVE THIS? YES. THANK YOU. UH, NUMBER TWO, SECOND PAGE. UH, ANY DENNIS SETTER PROPOSING A C3 AND L LIKE TO ADD THE L? OKAY. UH, I ACCEPT THAT INQUIRY. INQUIRY. YEAH, IT DOES REQUIRE ANOTHER CHANGE. SORRY, GO AHEAD. YEAH, GO AHEAD. UH, POINT OF INQUIRY, WHAT'S CHARACTERIZED BY L I'M JUST OUT OF PRACTICE WITH WHAT IS LL IS THE LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT. IT'S, I WOULD SAY THE MOST COMMON USE IN A LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT IS A, IS AN OFFICE WAREHOUSE WHERE YOU MIGHT HAVE A SMALL SHOWROOM UP FRONT AND WAREHOUSING IN, UH, IN THE REAR. I WILL ALSO SAY THAT IF WE'RE MAKING AN AMENDMENT TO LI SUGGEST WE DO IT FOR BP AS WELL BECAUSE THE BUSINESS PARK DISTRICT PERMITS THE SAME EXACT USES AS THE L LIGHT INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT. OKAY. UM, GIVEN THAT INFORMATION, COMMISSIONER INSO? SURE. YES. WE'LL ADD THE BP. OKAY. ACCEPTED. NO, I'M, I'M SORRY. THE BUSINESS PARK IS LIKE CORE. OKAY. FOR THE PURPOSE. THAT'S IT. ALRIGHT. UH, COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ? NOTHING. ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER PONT. ALRIGHT. NOPE. I MEAN THIS IS, LET ME BE CLEAR. THIS IS DISCUSSION TOO, , SO IF Y'ALL WANNA SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS NOW'S YOUR TIME OR YOUR, YOUR COUNTING THAT I'M MY MOTION'S GONNA FAIL, WHICH WE'LL SEE. UH, ALRIGHT. COMMISSIONER LO TO YOU. UH, YEAH FOR DISCUSSION I WILL SAY I THINK APPRECIATE A LOT OF THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS. I HOPE WE CAN, I DUNNO IF THIS'S OKAY TO SAY I HOPE WE CAN FAIL THIS AND RECONSIDER A DIFFERENT OPTION. UM, I WILL JUST NOTE I AND D TWO MIGHT BE SPECIFIC IN THIS, I DON'T KNOW AND THERE'S A WHOLE HISTORY OF RACIAL REDLINING BEHIND D TWO AND THE HISTORICALLY BLACK AREA OF SAN ANTONIO. BUT THERE IS ENOUGH ACTUALLY ANY AMOUNT, A SINGLE AMOUNT WOULD BE ENOUGH SITUATIONS WHERE INDUSTRIAL IS NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL. AND SO I ONE BEING PART OF A BY RIGHT SITUATION FOR DATA CENTERS WORRIES ME A LOT. I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT NOT EVERYONE HAS THAT IN THEIR DISTRICT, BUT I DO WANNA CALL IT OUT. SO, UM, I WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. I HOPE WE CAN, UH, TALK ABOUT OTHER OPTIONS BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S A LOT THERE. I'M KIND OF WITH YOU, I SUPPORT ABOUT 85% OF IT, UM, BUT WANNA TALK THROUGH A LITTLE BIT MORE SO WE WON'T BE SUPPORTING THIS MOTION. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH. COMMISSIONER LO. COMMISSIONER DALL, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, UH, IN GOING THROUGH I ONE AND I TWO, THOSE THE USES IN I ONE AND I TWO, MANY OF THEM, IF NOT ALL OF THEM, ARE GONNA BE MORE INTENSIVE [05:10:01] THAN A DATA CENTER. UH, HAVING A DATA CENTER THERE AS OPPOSED TO METAL RECYCLING OR A LUMBER YARD OR A PLASTICS FACTORY, UH, THE DATA CENTER WOULD BE A, A STEP UP IN AN IMPROVEMENT. UH, SO I THINK THAT'S A, UM, UM, A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AS FOR SPEAKING ON THE, THE PRINCIPLE MOTION, I'M SUPPORTING IT, UH, AS I THINK A COMPROMISE THAT ADDRESSES THE ISSUE I BROUGHT UP EARLIER ABOUT WHERE THIS THIS PUBLIC ISSUE EVEN CAME FROM, WHICH IS HYPERSCALERS IN THE NEWS. SO BIG DATA CENTERS COMING, PEOPLE BEING AFRAID OF IT BEING POPPED INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD. LIKE I SAID, THEY THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE A SHOPPING CENTER WITH A HOME DEPOT AND IT ENDS UP BEING A BIG THING THAT LOOKS LIKE IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE IN AN, YOU KNOW, A BUSINESS PARK. UH, AND I THINK THIS MOTION WOULD ADDRESS THOSE CASES. UM, THE MATTER OF WHETHER THERE SHOULD BE INDUSTRIAL ZONED NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL, I THINK IS A, A SEPARATE ISSUE. UM, RESPECTFULLY, UM, AS FOR THE, THE, THE DISTANCE REQUIREMENT WE, UH, HEARD FROM LOGAN, HEARD FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, UH, THAT 200, 250, YOU KNOW, SO 200, 250 FEET, IT'S GONNA BE MORE THAN ADEQUATE TO DEAL WITH THAT NOISE BUFFER FOR THE NOISE TO BE ABLE TO DISSIPATE. I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE BASIS FOR IT. UM, REASON I, ON THE SECOND WITH THE CHANGING IT TO, UH, 300, I WILL BE SUPPORTING THE MOTION. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER. HEY, NOW, NOW THEY'RE CUTTING ME OFF. UH, COMMISSIONER WHITSON, UH, SPEAKING TO THE I NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL ISSUE. THERE ARE EXISTING AGGRESSIVE THINGS NEXT TO RESIDENTIAL ALREADY, AND IF YOU HAD A VACANT PIECE OF RESIDENTIAL, UH, INDUSTRIAL ADJOINING RESIDENTIAL, I'D MUCH RATHER SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS THAT'S QUIET AND LIMITED VERSUS METAL RECYCLING AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF AGGRESSIVE UH, OPTIONS WHICH ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE TO IMPACT THAT RESIDENTIAL. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER WHITSETT. COMMISSIONER KELLY. I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB OF CREATING A REASONABLE COMPROMISE, MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, I'M INCLINED TO SUPPORT THIS. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. COMMISSIONER KELLY. COMMISSIONER SIPES. I AGREE. I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A, UH, 98% GOOD COMPROMISE. . UM, I, I, I DO WISH THE, UH, AT LEAST YOU'RE GIVING ME AN A YES. YES. I DO WISH THE, THE L AND THE BUSINESS PARK HAD BEEN ACCEPTED. THOSE, UH, FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. THAT FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. UM, I DO RECOGNIZE, UH, WHAT COMMISSIONER LOAF SAID ABOUT IN HER DISTRICT THAT THERE IS A LOT OF I ONE AND I TOO ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL. AND, UM, I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AS WELL. I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I SAID, WHEN I MENTIONED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE C3 AND L UM, AND I'M STILL TRYING TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, HOW A, A WAY TO RESOLVE THAT IS WHAT OR WHAT THE BEST WAY TO RESOLVE THAT IS. UM, I DO HAVE ONE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. OKAY. AND THAT IS THAT, UM, THAT, UH, THE BACKUP GENERATORS AND CHILLER YARDS BE SCREENED FROM PUBLIC VIEW. AND WHAT I'M MEANING IS SOLID SCREENING. THAT WAY THAT WOULD HELP ALSO ATTENUATE SOME OF THE SOUND. OKAY. MR. SPARROW, IS THAT PROPOSED AS A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO SUBSECTION B ON LOCATION AND PLACEMENT AND THE STANDARDS THAT HAVE TO BE ADHERED TO, TO AVOID A SPECIFIC USE, LIKE A UNDERNEATH SIX NOISE, A SUBSECTION SEVEN THAT SAYS THAT CHILLERS AND GENERATORS MUST BE SCREENED FROM PUBLIC VIEW AND IF THEY'RE NOT, THAT TRIGGERS THEM INTO THE SPECIFIC USE? UM, THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION. I HOPE SO. THAT IS A REALLY GOOD . I WAS JUST THINKING THAT I KIND OF WANTED THAT AS A UNIVERSAL, BUT, UM, WELL KEEP IN MIND THAT IF THAT'S AS THE SPECIFIC, THAT'S ALSO AVAILABLE AS A CONSIDERATION. WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA PAUSE THE CLOCK HERE FOR A SECOND. UM, BUT IF WE ADD THAT IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, A CONSIDERATION FOR ANY SPECIFIC USE AS WELL. IT'S JUST AS BY RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS. AND IF THEY TELL US TO FLY A KITE, THEY GET TO COME TO US. AGREED. NO. OKAY. UM, SO LOGAN, YOU HAVE THAT PROPOSED, JUST TO REPEAT IT, ADDING A SUBSECTION SEVEN THAT READS THAT ONSITE [05:15:01] CHILLERS AND GENERATORS WILL BE SCREENED FROM PUBLIC VIEW. IS THAT IT? OR IS THERE ? YES. I'M TRYING TO THINK ON HOW, HOW YOU WOULD, WHAT COULD WE CALL? BECAUSE I, I'M NOT THINKING OF LIKE JUST A, A SIMPLE SCREEN WITH PLASTIC SOUND ATTENUATION. YEAH. I'M THINKING OF SOMETHING THAT WITH SOUND ATTENUATION. YEAH. WE'LL HAVE TO FIGURE OUT DEFINITION LATER. YEAH. IT ALMOST, FOR EXAMPLE, THE COOLING CENTER'S IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUILDING, THEN THIS IS MOVED BUILDING. EXACTLY. OR IF IT'S ON THE BACKSIDE, IT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE FINE. IT'S JUST WHEN I'M THINKING THE PUBLIC VIEW FROM PUBLIC VIEW MEANING, SO YEAH, PUBLIC VIEW GENERALLY IS AS VIEWED FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. SO FROM THE SIDEWALK FROM A PUBLIC STREET, YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE IT SOUND ATTENUATION. I IT'S VERY BROAD. YEAH, THAT'S FAIR. I MEAN, SOME PEOPLE COULD ARGUE THAT MY LANDSCAPE BUFFER YARD IS THERE TO DEADEN THE NOISE. THAT SOUND ATTENUATION. IS THAT REALLY WHAT YOU MEAN? NN AND I AGREE. UH, THAT'S WHY I WAS TRYING TO THINK, YOU KNOW, DO YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD SAY SOLID BASE AND CONCRETE. THERE, THERE WAS, I BELIEVE THE LANGUAGE IN OPTION THREE THAT TALKED ABOUT THAT ONSITE GENERATORS MUST BE SOMEHOW ENCLOSED. SO YES, BUT I KNOW THAT THAT'S LIKE, WELL AGAIN, ENCLOSED, I DON'T IMPLY IN A BILL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA PUT IT NEXT TO THE FAX MACHINE, BUT ENCLOSED IN SOME SORT OF WALL TO PREVENT, YOU KNOW, TO DEADEN THAT NOISE. YES. I WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE WORKABLE TERMINOLOGY. LIKE THE SITE WE VISITED. YEAH. YES, PLEASE. SORRY. UM, I, I JUST THINK THERE'S A LOT OF TECHNICAL EXPERTISE BEING LOST IN THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE, UM, THE INDUSTRY IS MORE THAN HAPPY TO PUT IN SCREENING WALLS. HOWEVER, THE SCREENING WALLS HAVE TO HAVE SOME FORM OF VERING FOR AIR CIRCULATION OR, OR ELSE OUR EQUIPMENT CAN GET SO HOT THAT IT ENDS UP FAILING. UM, SO IF WE DON'T HAVE A WAY TO MOVE AIR THROUGHOUT LIKE THE CHILLER PLATFORM AND THROUGHOUT THE GENERATORS, THEN WE KILL EQUIPMENT AND THAT CAUSES ADDITIONAL WASTE. SO Y'ALL DON'T WANT THAT. YES, AND I UNDERSTAND, BUT, AND I GUESS SO LIKE A LOUVERED SCREENING, WELL I'M THINKING SOMETHING LIKE THAT. NOT ON, NOT ON ALL SIDES. 75. JUST, JUST ON THE YEAH. THE SIDE THAT YOU SEE, THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING PUBLIC VIEW VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IS TYPICALLY WHAT WE SEE IN OTHER YES. CODING CODES AND THEN THAT GIVES US DISCRETION TO EXACTLY. BE ABLE TO LIKE SIDE SCREENING. YES, EXACTLY. 75% SCREENING ON LIKE ROOFTOPS ARE, ARE THE LOUVER WALLS ON 75% OF THE SIDES REGULATED IN THE BUILDING CODES? THEY'RE UH, THEY'RE TYPICALLY REGULATED IN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODES IN BUILDING AND ENGINEERING. I'M JUST GONNA TRY TO SEE IF WE COULD POINT TO A CODE COMPLIANCE SCREENING PER THE BUILDING CODE. BUT WE, WE COULD SAY THAT, WE COULD SAY ONSITE CHILLERS BUT NOT BLOCK WALLS. WHEN AND ONSITE CHILLERS WAS GENERATORS WILL BE SCREENED FROM THE, UH, PUB VIEW FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY USING A SCREEN ON AT LEAST THREE SIDES OF THE ONSITE GENERATOR. THAT'S FINE. I WAS PRIMARILY JUST THINKING ON THE SIDE, JUST AS A, LIKE YOU SEE ON, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST A WALL LOOK RIGHT AWAY SIDE. YEAH, LOOK RIGHT AWAY SIDE. OKAY. ON THE SIDE FACING THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY. GOOD. OKAY. I WOULD SAY PRIMARY PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY. ARE THEY SOMETIMES ON A CORNER FACING TWO RIGHTS AWAY. CORNER . SO THIS SOUNDS LIKE A CITY COUNCIL PROBLEM. I AS A RECOMMENDING BODY, THESE THINGS CAN BE IMPROVED. YES. UM, UH, BUT I WILL ACCEPT THAT FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SIPES. ALRIGHT. UM, I UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS A COMPROMISE, THIS IS WHY I'VE TRIED TO CREATE THIS, UH, UM, THIS IS AS WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST, SOMETHING THAT, UH, CITY COUNCIL HAS TASKED US WITH. AND, UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPETING CONCERNS. WE ARE THE ZONING COMMISSION. WE HAVE LIMITED PURVIEW. CITY COUNCIL HAS A MUCH GREATER ABILITY. UM, AND AGAIN, AS HAS BEEN POINTED OUT REPEATEDLY, WE ARE A RECOMMENDING BODY. UM, THE MOTION IS FOR APPROVAL OF MY AMENDMENT AS SUBMITTED, OR SORRY, MY MOTION AS AMENDED THROUGH THE FRIENDLY AMENDMENT PROCESS WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER. DULL. ROLL CALL, VOTE [05:20:03] CHAIR. BUSANTE AYE. COMMISSIONER DUO? AYE. COMMISSIONER LOS? NO. COMMISSIONER NOOSA? NO. COMMISSIONER. PETE RODRIGUEZ? NO. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER WINSTON? YES. COMMISSIONER PO. NO. MOTION FAILS. MOTION FAILS. UH, MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION BY SOMEONE WHO VOTED NO. I'LL MAKE A MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. IS THERE A SECOND? A SECOND. OKAY. UM, MOTION IS FOR RECONSIDERATION BY COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ WITH A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER HINOJOSA. ROLL CALL VOTE COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER LO? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER DUWELL. AYE. COMMISSIONER WINTON? YES. COMMISSIONER PANA? YES. CHAIR BUSANTE. AYE. MOTION CARRIES. ALRIGHT, FLOOR'S OPEN FOR A MOTION CHAIR. I HAVE A QUESTION REAL QUICK FOR YOU. YEAH, GO AHEAD. HOW, UM, CAN WE HAVE A WORK SESSION? UH, REAL QUICK WE CANNOT TO TO DISCUSS THIS. THERE IS NO REASON TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AT THIS TIME. SO WE CANNOT LEAVE, WE CANNOT GO INTO WORK SESSION. WE ARE IN PUBLIC HEARING. ANY, ANY, ANY DISCUSSION THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE CAN TAKE PLACE. NOW, IF YOU WOULD LIKE ANOTHER ROUND OF DISCUSSION, UM, I WILL ALLOW A BRIEF ONE WITH TWO MINUTES PER PERSON. WELL, THE REASON I WAS ASKING IS BECAUSE I THINK, UH, WE NEED A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME TO GO OVER OPTION THREE IN COMBINATION WITH OPTION B. ALSO, YOU, YOU CAN MAKE A MOTION. I MAKE A MOTION. OKAY. TO, UH, HOLD ON. MAKE A MOTION TO HAVE A WORK SESSION OR MAKE A MOTION TO ACCEPT THE B AND THREE. OKAY. YOU CAN SAY A MOTION TO ACCEPT B AND THREE, BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO SPECIFY WHAT ASPECTS OF THAT. WELL, THAT'S WHY I WANT A WORK SESSION. WE NEED, I NEED A FEW MINUTES TO, UH, TO LOOK IT OVER AND TO DETERMINE WHAT WE WANT FROM B AND FROM THREE. OKAY. UH, WE CAN TAKE A BREAK. YOU CAN LOOK OVER IT. UM, I WOULD CAUTION YOU NOT TO VIOLATE ANY QUORUM RULES. UH, BUT WE CAN TAKE A FIVE MINUTE BREAK. THE TIME IS 6 53. WE WILL BE IN RECESS UNTIL 6 58. CAN YOU PUT OPTION THREE ON THE SCREEN PLEASE? ALRIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE TIME IS 6 59. ALL RIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE TIME IS 6 59. UH, THIS MEETING OF THE ZONING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS BACK IN SESSION. UH, THE FLOOR IS OPEN FOR A MOTION. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. COMMISSIONER PANA. SO AS YOUR, UM, THE OPTION THAT YOU PRESENTED MM-HMM . GOING WITH THAT WITH A FEW CHANGES. VERY GOOD. UH, SECTION, THE FIRST SECTION, SECTION A, ZONING DATA CENTERS. UH, WE WANT SPECIAL USE FOR C3 L AND BP. OKAY. THERE SHALL, SO THAT, JUST LET ME BE CLEAR HERE. THAT WILL REQUIRE AMENDMENT TWO, UH, SUBSECTION B. YES. SO THAT WILL NOW READ. SUBSECTION B WILL READ FOUR THROUGH SEVEN INSTEAD OF TWO THROUGH SEVEN. LOGAN, YOU GOT IT? YEP. AND THEN, UH, SECTION 7 1 7 1 INSTEAD OF 250 FEET, IT'LL BE 300. SORRY, THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL ONE WITH RESPECT TO TWO. UH, C TWO, WHICH WILL REQUIRE THE ADDITION OF L BP. YES. YES. RIGHT UNDER C TWO WHERE IT SAYS ANY DATA [05:25:01] CENTER PROPOSED IN C3 L BP, SORRY. ALL GOOD. MUST OBTAIN AN S. OKAY. COMMISSIONER, ARE WE GOOD WITH THAT? OKAY. UH, WHERE IT SAYS THERE SHALL BE AT LEAST 250 FEET SEPARATION FROM ALL PRINCIPAL BUILDINGS. MAKE THAT 350 FEET. OKAY. NUMBER THREE. JUST BELOW THAT CHANGE, 50 TO A HUNDRED FEET. OKAY. UH, THIS IS B THREE B THREE ON THE SETBACK PAGE. YEP. UH, WE ALSO SPOKE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THE WORDAGE, UH, FOR THE 90 DEGREES SAYS DOWNWARD LIGHTING. OKAY. AND THEN ALSO WHAT WE SPOKE ABOUT SUBSECTION SEVEN ON SITE CHILLERS GENERATOR SCREEN FROM PUBLIC VIEW. YOU, I THINK I GOT IT ALL. OKAY. AND THEN THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS PROPOSED. RAY THE CHILLERS. YEP. GOT IT. LOGAN. ALRIGHT. THERE IS A MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND IT. SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. ALRIGHT, DISCUSSION. UH, START WITH MY RIGHT. NOT LEFT. YES. COMMISSIONER DOUGLE. I THINK THE 350 FEET'S TOO MUCH. IT'D BE ALMOST UNPRECEDENTED WITHIN THE UDC. THERE'S A LOT MORE INTENSIVE USES THAT GET, GET A LOT MORE, UM, UH, EASY TREATMENT THAN THAT. BUT READING THE POLITICS OF THE, UH, OF THE MEETING AS OPPOSED TO HAVING AN S ON EVERYTHING STILL PREFERABLE. SO I WILL BE SUPPORTING THAT MOTION WITH THAT CAVEAT. VERY GOOD. ALRIGHT. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION LEFT? ALRIGHT. MOTION HAS BEEN STATED ON THE RECORD, EXCUSE ME, BY COMMISSIONER PANO. SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. ROLL CALL VOTE. COMMISSIONER PANA? YES. COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. YES. COMMISSIONER L? YES. COMMISSIONER OSA? YES. COMMISSIONER SIPES? YES. COMMISSIONER KELLY? YES. COMMISSIONER DUEL. AYE. COMMISSIONER WINS? NO. CHAIR. BUS. OH, DO I WANNA BE CHURLISH? UH, YES. MOTION CARRIES. ALRIGHT, VERY GOOD. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. UH, WE ARE NOW GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM, LOGAN. I WAS JUST GONNA MENTION FOR THOSE, UH, IN THE IN ATTENDANCE AND MAYBE WATCHING ONLINE, WE WILL DRAFT THAT ALL UP. WE'LL POST THAT ONLINE AS THE ZONING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATION ON SA SPEAKUP. THANK YOU SO MUCH MR. SPARROW. WE HAVE OUR NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER 4TH, 2026 ZONING, COMMISSION MEETING, ANY AMENDMENTS, CHANGES, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. LOOKING LEFT, SEEING NONE, LOOKING RIGHT, SEEING NONE. UM, VERY GOOD. IS THERE A MOTION, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. ALRIGHT. MOTION FOR APPROVAL BY COMMISSIONER PETE RODRIGUEZ. A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER PANA. UH, THIS CAN BE DONE BY ACCLAMATION. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ALL THOSE OPPOSED? SAME SIGN. MOTION CARRIES. IS THERE A DIRECTOR'S REPORT? NO. NO. VERY GOOD. THE TIME , THE TIME IS 7 0 4. THIS MEETING OF THE ZONING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. NOT NECESSARILY. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.