* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] KRISTEN, [Call to Order] YOU CALL IN THE MEETING TO ORDER? YES. I'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. I HAVE A, A SCRIPT HERE. UM, THERE'S GONNA BE A, YOU KNOW, CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER. THERE'LL BE A ROLL CALL. UM, THERE'S A STATEMENT, UH, REGARDING THE MEETINGS AND MEETING PROCESSES THAT STAFF WILL GO THROUGH. AND THEN FINALLY WE GET DOWN INTO THE, UH, THE AGENDA ITEMS. VERY GOOD. THIS IS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE FOLLOW ON PLANNING THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SO WE'VE GOT A PARENTS SOLID, LENGTHY AGENDA. SO, ALL RIGHT, CHRIS, THIS IS JEREMY WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. WE ARE STREAMING LIVE AND RECORDING. WE ARE GOOD TO GO TO START. GOOD. SO STAFF READY? BOARD MEMBERS READY? GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. VERY, VERY GOOD. UH, GOOD AFTERNOON LADIES. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. IT IS 1 33 AND TODAY IS JUNE 12TH, 2020. AND MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER GARCIA. I AM CHAIR OF THE BREEDING RELATED AND FIRE CODES APPEALS AND ADVISORY BOARD FOR THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. AND I'M CALLING THIS MEETING TO ORDER STAFF. PLEASE CONDUCT THE ROLL CALL. LOUIS . JEFF BYER. SCOTT BERGER. RON ZA. JOHN MARTIN. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR. JOHN MARTIN IS NOT ON CALL. NO. OKAY. CHRISTOPHER GARCIA PRESENT. JENNIFER ALLIE. BETTY LARID. MAX HANFORD. SPENCER RAMO. GEORGE . RAUL VASQUEZ. I'M HERE. GARY COOP. I'M HERE. ROBERT NEY. HERE. VICTOR . ROBERT JONES. MARK. BE MICHAEL REESE. PRESENT. PRESENT. MICHAEL RU. HERE DEL TO BRIAN SMITH. HOW IS THAT JOE? LIZ. WILLIAM BURRIS. WILLIAM BURRIS IS PRESIDENT. KAREN CARPENTER PRESENT. JACK HERE. FRANK. OKAY. I'M GOING TO DO A ACCOUNT REAL QUICK. I THINK THAT'S, I'M SORRY. INITIAL ALTERNATE THAT HAS A PRIMARY GEAR. UH, BUT I SHOWED MAX HARFORD AS BEING AN ATTEND, BUT WE DID NOT GET A CONFIRMATION OF ATTENDANCE. NEXT, UH, COULD YOU BEGIN MUTE AND CONFIRM YOUR ATTENDANCE? SOUNDS LIKE A LATE JENNIFER. I COUNTY. IS THIS MAX HALFORD? ARE WE ABLE TO CONFIRM, UH, MAX HALFORD'S ON THE CALL? WE HAVE NOT CONFIRMED YET. OH, OKAY. OKAY. ONE MAX, I SEE YOU GO ALSO MUTE, BUT YOU DON'T HEAR ANYTHING. [00:05:11] CAN I PROCEED? UH, NO. MY COUNT HAS EIGHT UNTIL WE CAN CONFIRM X. I'LL SEE HERE. JENNIFER. I COUNTED 11 DURING ROLL CALL, CORRECT? UH, BUT TWO OF THOSE, OH, YOU KNOW WHAT? I APOLOGIZE. THERE'S NINE. UH, SO WE CAN JUST GET JUST FOR THE VOTE. I WANNA MAKE SURE WE CAN GET HIM CONFIRMED. WHAT, WHAT IS THE QUORUM? JEREMIAH? JEREMY? UH, A PEN NINE. WELL, I COUNTED 11 OR 11 PEOPLE FROM ACKNOWLEDGED PRESENCE. CORRECT. BUT WE ALSO HAVE TWO THAT ARE PRIMARY AND ALTERNATOR HERE. UH, OKAY. DO NINE. I I COUNTED NINE. PRE NINE. I COUNTED, UM, EIGHT PRIMARIES. AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE THREE ALTERNATES. WE HAVE ONE POSITION WHERE THE, UH, THE ALTERNATE AND THE PRIMARY ARE PRESENT, BUT JUST COUNTING PRIMARIES AND ALTERNATES WHERE WE DO NOT HAVE THE PRIMARY PRESENT. WE DID, UH, DID INDICATE IN HERE. HERE. THERE WE GO. OKAY. A FORUM IS PRESENT. ALSO PRESENT IN THE MEETING FROM THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO ARE JOSEPH CARNEY FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND FROM DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. MICHAEL SHANNON, DIRECTOR AMAIN TOMA, DEPUTY DIRECTOR DAVID ROADIE, PLUMBING CHIEF JEREMY MCDONALD, BOARD LIAISON. AND MYSELF, JENNIFER SMITH. UH, JENNIFER MANAGER. AWARD INSPECTIONS ON PRESIDENT . I APOLOGIZE. MICHAEL CONSTANTINO IS PRESENT FROM THE DEVELOPMENT SERVICES DEPARTMENT. MY CONSTANTINO ADMINISTRATIVE INSTRUCTIONS PRESENT. THANK YOU. UH, CAN WE HAVE THE INTERPRETERS READ THE INTERPRETATION SERVICES AVAILABLE FOR THIS MEETING? THANK YOU. I DO WANNA SAY THAT IT'S EXCITING TO BE, UH, GETTING BACK TO YOU. IT'S IMPORTANT FOR OUR CITY. IT IS DIFFERENT, BUT I THINK MOST OF US HAVE DONE THESE ONLINE MEETINGS BY NOW. AND, UH, FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND THOSE, UH, PRESENTING TODAY, JUST PLEASE BE PATIENT WITH US. YOU KNOW, THERE CAN BE A VARIETY OF TECHNICAL CHALLENGES YOU'VE ALREADY RUN INTO A, UH, TO A COUPLE. UM, SO ELLE, CAN YOU PLEASE REVIEW OUR MEETING FORMAT? THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES TO PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC AND LIMIT THE POTENTIAL SPREAD OF COVID 19. THE BUILDING RELATED AND FIRE CODES ADVISORY AND FIELD BOARD IS HOLDING MEETINGS VIA VIDEO CONFERENCE. THESE MEETING STANDARDS ARE BASED UPON THE VARIOUS SUSPENDED PROVISIONS OF THE OPEN ACT MEETING ACT ISSUED BY THE TEXAS GOVERNOR IN RESPONSE TO THE COVID 19 CRISIS AND ARE IN PLACE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN WATCH AND LISTEN TO THIS MEETING BY VISITING WWW UH, SAN ANTONIO.GOV/BD BY CALLING IN FOR AUDIO ONLY AT 2 1 0 2 6 0 5 4 8 3. THAT'S 2 1 0 2 6 2 0 6 5 4 8 3 PUBLIC COMMENT. THERE ARE FOUR OPPORTUNITIES. THESE INCLUDE EMAIL OR MAIL OF COMMENTS, DROPPING OFF COMMENTS, LEAVING VOICEMAIL, OR ASKING TO BE CALLED DURING THE MEETING. STATEMENTS OR COMMENTS WILL BE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES FOLLOWING THE PRESENTATION BY THE APPLICANT'S STAFF WILL READ INTO THE RECORD ANY EMAILS OR LETTERS RECEIVED. STAFF WILL ALSO PLAY ANY MESSAGES RECEIVED BY VOICEMAIL. LASTLY, FOR THOSE THAT SIGNED UP TO RECEIVE A CALLBACK, WE'LL CALL . THEIR SPANISH INTERPRETERS ARE ON STANDBY AS NEEDED. THE APPEAL WILL THEN BE GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL WITH AN UNLIMITED TIME LIMIT, ALONG WITH AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE BOARD QUESTION. THANK YOU, CHAIR. OKAY, NOW WE'RE GETTING INTO OUR AGENDA ITEMS. WE, THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA [Approval of Minutes] IS APPROVAL OF THE MEETING MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING. HAS EVERYONE [00:10:01] HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE MINUTES? ARE THERE ANY CORRECTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE MINUTES? IF NOT, UH, CAN YOU HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? HOWEVER YOU MAY. ITEM GOOD WITH YOU MAY MOVE WHEN APPROVE THE MEETING MINUTES. UH, UNLESS, UH, ANY, UH, MODIFICATIONS OR CHANGES FOR OTHER BOARD MEMBERS. JACK, GO FOR A SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION FROM, FROM, UH, LEY AND A SECOND FROM TMORE. UH, BACK. YOU CAN EITHER THE ROLL CALL VOTE. RON PRESENT. I THINK IF THAT'S A YES. I'M SORRY. THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE A YES. SORRY ABOUT THAT. CHRISTOPHER GARCIA? YES. ROYAL VASQUEZ. THAT'S A YES. MAX HALPER. YES. ROBERT HANLEY. YES. MICHAEL RICE. YES. MICHAEL RUS. UH, I'M SAYING I WASN'T PRESENT. I KNOW THAT I'M ELIGIBLE TO VOTE. I AM SORRY. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. I AM SAYING I WAS NOT, UH, PRESENT AT THE MEETINGS AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT, UH, I'M ELIGIBLE TO VOTE ON IT, SO. OH, OKAY. BRIAN SMITH? YES. WILLIAM BUR YES. JACK UP ONE. YES. MOTION PASSES TO APPROVE THE MINUTES, UM, WITH A VOTE OF 9 2 1 9 FOR TIME IN FAVOR OF ONE ATTENTION. THANK YOU. NEXT, WE'LL [1. Review proposed amendments to the CPS Energy Standards book. Take action to vote on the proposed amendments as is, with recommend changes, or to create a Sub-Committee to review and discuss the proposed amendments in more detail.] ON TO OUR INDIVIDUAL ITEMS. THE FIRST ITEM IS REVIEW PROPOSED AMENDMENTS IN THE C P S ENERGY STANDARDS BOOK TAKE ACT, AND WILL, UH, TAKE ACTION TO PROPOSED AMENDMENT AS IS, WOULD THE RECOMMENDED CHANGES, OR TO CREATE A SUBCOMMITTEE TO REVIEW AND DISCUSS THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS IN MORE DETAIL. AT THIS POINT, WE'LL TURN OVER THIS STAFF FOR PRESENTATIONS. THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD SERVICES. WE HAVE MR. JOHN PEREZ WITH C P S ENERGY ON THE CALL. UH, WE WILL, UH, SHARE HIS SCREEN AND ALLOW HIM TO TAKE. SO WITH THAT, THANK YOU, UH, BOARD FOR ALLOWING THE OPPORTUNITY THAT THE, UH, REVISED SECTION, THE C P S SERVICE STANDARD BOOK. A LITTLE BRIEF HISTORY ON, UH, THE LAST, UH, WHERE WE LEFT OFF THE LAST, WE PRESENTED APPROVAL STATE, UH, WITHIN C P S ENERGY WENT, THE QUESTION WAS BROUGHT UP OR REQUEST MADE TO INCORPORATE A SINGLE PHASE AL. SO WITH THAT, UH, THE, SORRY ON SHARING HERE. HELLO, I I'M SORRY. THIS IS ANTONIO, CAN EVERYBODY MUTE THEMSELVES IF THEY'RE NOT TALKING TO MINIMIZE THE ECHO? THANK YOU. WAS EVERYONE SEEING THE REVISED TABLE SECTION? YES. OKAY. I'M NOT SURE. I'VE GOT MULTIPLE PDF INDUSTRIES. SAME THING. SO WITH THAT, AGAIN, THE COMMERCIAL SECTION WAS MAINLY WELL PUSHED FOR. THAT WAS, UM, THE NEWLY DEVELOPING WIFI INSTALLATIONS ON AND HOW WE WERE GONNA FEED THOSE. BUT WITH THAT, IT HAD IMPLICATIONS FOR ALL COMMERCIAL FLOW. UH, WITH THAT, IT'S PRIMARILY OUR TYPICAL, UH, SECTIONS WHERE WE GO THROUGH AND ADDRESS, UH, THE TYPE OF INSTALLATION, THE CRITERIA, METHODS AND MATERIALS USED, UH, FOR THOSE TYPE OF INSTALLATIONS. AND, AND IF YOU APPLY, WE CAN GO THROUGH SOME OF THAT. AND SPEAKING IN GENERALITY, UH, EASEMENT REQUIREMENTS, THE SECTIONS FOR THE LOCATIONS OF LOCATED WITHIN THE CUSTOMER PROPERTY AND ON THE RIGHT [00:15:01] OF WAY, UH, THE VARIOUS REQUIREMENTS OF SKETCHES, HOW THAT WOULD BE ROUTE THROUGH THE C P S PROCESS. PRIMARY VOLTAGE TRENCHING, SORRY, I HAVE TO TRAINS. JUMPING AROUND HERE. TRANSFORMERS AND TOOL BOXES, LAB REQUIREMENTS, AND THE LIGHT. UH, WHAT THIS REALLY AFFORDS TO THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT, IS AN ALTERNATIVE MEANS FOR COMMERCIAL INSTALLATION. UH, WE'VE ALWAYS HAD KIND OF AN UNWRITTEN POLICY ON HOW TO FEED WHEN THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT TO A RESIDENTIAL UNDERGROUND LOOP FEED AND NO OTHER OTHER MEANS TO FEED IT. UM, THIS KIND OF PROVIDES MORE OF A FIRM DEFINITION OF HOW THAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN. UM, ALONG WITH THIS NEW SECTION, THE PREVIOUS SECTION 1200 WAS THE PRIMARY METERING. UH, THAT SECTION WAS THEN COMBINED WITH 1300. THERE WAS AN OVERHEAD PRIMARY METERING SECTION AND AN UNDERGROUND PRIMARY, PRIMARY METERING SECTION, UH, THAT WAS MERELY CAPTURED AND ADDED INTO ONE SECTION, SECTION 1300. UH, VERY LITTLE CHANGE TO ANY LANGUAGE ON THAT. AND THE LAST COMPONENT, UH, WELL, THE SECTION 1400 ALSO HAD A, A BIT OF A CHANGE, AND THAT WAS TYPICALLY WE DON'T ALLOW FOR METERING TO BE PLACED ON C P S RELIEF POLES. UM, BUT BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO BE THROUGH PARTNERS WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, REQUEST THAT TO MINIMIZE, UH, RIGHT OF WAY FURNITURE, THEN WE WOULD ALLOW A METERING TO BE PLACED TELECOM METERING SPECIFICALLY TO BE PLACED ON OUR POLES. AND THAT IS THIS CAPTURED AND NOTED HERE IN SECTION 14. NOW, THE LAST SECTION THAT KIND OF CAME UP WITH ONE OF OUR PROJECTS THAT WE DECIDED TO TRY TO ADD TO THE SAME SECTION, ARTICLE 1800, UH, 4.5, AND THAT WAS SPECIFIC TO THE, UH, IDENTIFICATION OF HOW TO GET METER EQUIPMENT SHIPPED TO THE CUSTOMER. UH, THESE ARE SPECIFIC TO INSTALLATION WITHIN THE, UH, CUSTOMER'S METERING COMPARTMENTS OR SWITCH GEAR COMPARTMENTS. UM, AND, AND FROM TIME TO TIME, IT'S BEEN QUESTIONED AS FAR AS WHO'S REQUIRED AND WHO'S, WHO'S, UH, WHO'S REQUIRED TO ACTUALLY PAY FOR SHIPPING. UH, THIS MERELY SAYS THAT IF A CUSTOMER'S REQUIRING TO HAVE S ENERGY METERING CTS OR BTS WITHIN THEIR METERING, UH, WITHIN THEIR COMPARTMENTS, SO IT WOULD BE UNDER THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CUSTOMER TO GET THAT SHIPPED AND PAY FOR. WITH THAT, I, I WILL OPEN THAT UP TO ANY QUESTIONS OR ANY COMMENTS THAT ANYONE HAS REGARDING THE CHANGES WE'RE TRYING TO ADD TO THE BOOK. JEREMY, DID YOU HAPPEN TO ? UH, DID YOU HAPPEN TO GET MY EMAIL OR DID JEREMY SEND THAT TO CHRIS? THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. YES, I DID GET YOUR EMAIL. I FORWARDED IT TO THE CHAIR, MS. GARCIA, BUT I ALSO, UH, C P S HAD ASKED OR ANY FEEDBACK THAT THEY, THAT HAD COME IN. SO I ALSO GAVE IT TO, UH, MR. PEREZ EARLIER THIS MORNING. I'M NOT SURE IF HE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW IT AND, UH, HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT? UH, I CAN PULL THAT UP IF YOU HAVE THAT IN THE START POINT. UH, JUST LEMME KNOW HOW Y'ALL LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD. YES, MR. PEREZ, I JUST HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS. THIS IS RO VASQUEZ. UH, AND THESE ARE JUST EDITORIAL, UH, QUESTIONS. UH, MAINLY, UH, THIS IS PART OF WHAT I DO. I, UH, WE SPENT SOME TIME GOING THROUGH EVERYTHING. I WASN'T PART OF THE PROCESS OF, UH, MAYBE WHENEVER THIS STARTED, UH, BUT WHEN THIS CAME ACROSS MY, MY LAP, I WENT THROUGH EVERY PAGE, UH, AND FOUND SOME DISCREPANCIES. AND IF THERE'S AN EDITORIAL GROUP ALREADY IN PLACE, THEN, THEN THIS IS MUTE. UH, BUT I DIDN'T POINT OUT SOME ISSUES THAT, UH, I HAD QUESTIONS OVER, UH, THAT, UH, SOME OF MY CONTRACTORS AND I SAT DOWN AND WE PRETTY MUCH, UH, UH, SPENT ABOUT ABOUT SIX HOURS GOING TO, TO THESE PAGES HERE. AND A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. SO, UH, I PUT IT DOWN, UH, 90.4. UH, SOME OF MY CONTRACTORS SEEMED TO WANNA KNOW IF THAT WAS AN UPDATED ADDRESS AT 55 11 SOUTH, UH, SALAL STREET, IF THAT'S STILL CORRECT, OR IF THAT NEEDS TO BE UPDATED. THAT'S GREAT. UM, SECTION 700 NEW FIGURE, UH, 700.2. SHOULD THERE BE SPECIFICATIONS TO THE J BOX OR IS THE DRAWING, [00:20:01] UH, ON THE OR OR, OR THE DRAWING DIMENSIONS ENOUGH? I KNOW IT, IT POINTS IT OUT IN, IN SECTION, UH, UH, 700. UH, I WENT BACK AND LOOKED TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY DIMENSIONS OR SHOULD WE HAVE ANY MORE SPECIFICATIONS IN THAT. AND THAT'S KIND OF UP IN THE AIR. UH, I THINK THIS, IN MY OPINION, THE SPECIFICATIONS WERE ENOUGH, BUT THAT'S WHAT MY CONTRACTORS ASKED. UM, SECTION 12, UH, 1002 0.4 A THREE STATES THAT IT ALLOWS THIS PARTICULAR AREA IS CONFUSING BECAUSE WHEN I'M LOOKING AT CODE, I THINK THE CODE SHOULD BE, UH, THE SAME WHETHER WE'RE LOOKING AT A FIGURE OR WE'RE LOOKING AT A, A, UH, THE DOCUMENT ITSELF. AND IN THE DOCUMENT IT'S, IT, IT ALLOWS, IT ALLOWS FOR SIX FOOT OF CLEARANCE IN FRONT OF THE TRANSFORMER'S DOOR SIDE SLAB FROM THE SLAB, UH, THE REVISION TO THE FIGURE 1000.2 NOTE FOUR STATES THAT, THAT THE MEASUREMENTS SHOULD BE FROM THE DOOR. SO I THINK THERE'S A CLEAR, I THINK WE NEED TO BE A LITTLE, UM, MORE CLEAR ON THAT. SHOULD WE TAKE THE, YOU KNOW, COULD THAT CAUSE A CONTROVERSY ON THE FIELD IF A PERSON JUST LOOKS AT THE DRAWING OR IF THEY JUST STICK TO THE, WHAT IS THE INSPECTOR YOUR INSPECTOR'S GOING TO LOOK FOR? ARE THEY GONNA LOOK FOR THE MEASUREMENT FROM THE SLAB AT SIX FOOT CLEARANCE OR ARE THEY GONNA LOOK AT THE MEASUREMENT FROM THE DOOR? AND THAT, I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE CLARIFIED. UM, THESE TWO STUDENTS SHOULD BE CONSISTENT IN BOTH THREE, EITHER, UH, MEASUREMENTS FROM THE DOOR OR THE TRANSFORMER, UH, SLAB. AND I KNOW WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE DOOR, UH, THAT THE MEASUREMENTS SHOULD BE FROM THE DOOR SIDE AND ALL THAT. BUT REGARDLESS, I THINK BOTH STATEMENTS SHOULD EITHER BE CONSISTENT IN MY OPINION. UM, SECTION 1000.2 0.4 SHOULD ACTUALLY READ 1000.25 BECAUSE WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THAT, IT, UH, THE, THE PARAGRAPH IS READING, UH, SOMETHING DIFFERENT. SO THE HEADING THERE, THE, IT NEEDS IT, THE CORRECT VERBIAGE FOR THAT IS SECTION 1 0 2 0.5, NOT 0.4. SO, UH, I THINK THE HEADING WAS MISPRINTED THERE, IN MY OPINION. UH, WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT IT, YOU'LL SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. UM, I DON'T, I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT I'M ON THE, THE RESTRICTIONS THAT YOU'RE CITING, ARE YOU LOOKING AT THE ONLY REWRITE WE DID AT THIS VERSION WAS THE SECTION 1200, UH, 1300, 1400 AND 1800. SO I, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT, I'M NOT SURE WHAT, WHAT COPY YOU'RE LOOKING AT ON, UH, WHATEVER WAS SENT OUT TO US. WHENEVER, UH, JEREMY SENT OUT THE REVISION PAGE, I WENT AND BROKE IT DOWN. I WENT PER STARTING FROM SECTION 90 ALL THE WAY TO THE LAST PAGE. SO IF THE SECTIONS THAT YOU SUBMITTED ARE, UH, FOR REVISION THAT THEN, UH, THE PAGE THAT YOU HAVE IS, DOESN'T SHOW ANY OF THOSE REVISIONS. AND, AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE. AND THESE ARE REVISIONS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED OR LOOKED AT IN THE, IN THE EXISTING MANUAL THAT, UM, FOR EXAMPLE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, UH, A PICTORIAL DRAWING IN 1000, UH, SECTION 1000, AND I BELIEVE IN THE NEW REVISION, IT CALLS FOR A NEW SECTION 1200. SO THE DRAWING, THE TABLE'S FINE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE NOTES ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, THEY'RE STILL REFERENCING THE OLD 1000 SECTION. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THOSE EDITORIALS ARE GONNA BE LOOKED AT AT YOUR DEPARTMENT. UH, UM, AND IF THEY ARE, THAT'S GREAT, IF NOT, BUT THOSE ARE SECTIONS THAT I CAUGHT, UM, THAT NEED TO BE REVISED. I DON'T WANT TO APPROVE IT. IF, IF IT HAS THAT, THOSE, IF I'M LOOKING AT A SECTION AND THE SECTION TELLS ME, UH, SECTION ONE, UH, 1200, AND THEN I GO TO THE NOTES AND THEY'RE STILL REFERENCING THE OLD CODE 1000. SO, UH, HAS ANYBODY LOOKED AT THAT OR ARE WE GONNA GET THOSE CORRECTED? SO, SO WHAT WE COULD POTENTIALLY DO, I GUESS, IS PACKAGE THIS UP WITH THE ENTIRE OTHER VERSION OF WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY PASSED. UH, AGAIN, WE, WE HAD A VERSION, UH, THAT WAS IN ALREADY THROUGH COMMITTEE. UM, AND AGAIN, IT WAS ON THE WAY TO BEING SIGNED BY C S SYNERGY UPPER MANAGEMENT WHEN THE REQUEST CAME IN FOR A SINGLE PHASE COMMERCIAL. SO SPECIFICALLY, THE ONLY, THE ONLY EDITING WE'VE DONE IS FOR SECTION 1200, THE ADDITION 1200. UH, AND THEN THE SUBSEQUENT CHANGES THAT TOOK PLACE, UM, IN REGARDS TO SPECIFIC LANGUAGE THAT WE REFERENCED, UM, MEANING AGAIN, PRIMARILY WE WOULD, WE WOULD BY, AS IN SECTION 1400, WE WOULDN'T ALLOW ANYONE ELSE TO PUT A METER ON, ON A C P S UTILITY HOLE. BUT DUE TO SECTION 1200 AND, AND [00:25:01] THE ALLOWANCE OF IT FOR TELECOMMUNICATION, UH, WE HAD TO MAKE EXCEPTIONS IN THOSE, IN THOSE OTHER SECTIONS OF THE BOOK. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE INFORMATION THAT WE PROVIDED FOR, FOR REVIEW. UM, WE NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK AGAIN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT VERSION YOU'RE LOOKING AT, SO IT'S KIND OF HARD FOR ME TO TELL. UM, I'M, FROM WHAT I'M LOOKING AT WOULD BE THE DRAFT VERSION. 'CAUSE I DID HAVE BOTH BOOKS. I HAD THE DRAFT VERSION AND I SPECIFICALLY WENT TO THAT, UH, WHEN I WENT PAGE BY PAGE. AND THEN I DID HAVE A COPY OF THE OLDER VERSION, UM, WHICH, UM, SO THESE ARE COMING OUT FROM THE DRAFT, UH, YEAH. HERE. UM, OKAY. SO, AND, AND I SPECIFICALLY WENT TO THE PAGES THAT IT CALLED FOR, JUST BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THIS, THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA BE FINALIZED, AND I THINK THESE ARE WHERE THE CORRECTIONS NEED TO BE MADE. UH, OKAY. IF, IF YOU HAVE AN ARTICLE GROUP, THAT'S GREAT. THAT'S FINE. THEN, THEN, THEN, I'M SORRY FOR BRINGING IT UP. UM, OH, NO, NO, NO. I DON'T WANNA PROVE SOMETHING THAT THAT'S NOT GONNA GET EDITED OR BE CORRECT, UH, IN THESE INSTANCES HERE. NO, UH, WE DO HAVE A, A GROUP THAT ONCE WE PAST THAT, WE, WE, IT'S A PROGRESS. AND OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE MY NOTES FROM WHAT I PUT, AND I, AND I'M NOT SEEING MY NOTES HERE. UH, THE NEW REVISED SECTION, UH, THAT YOU CALLED OUT FOR, FOR TABLE 1200, UM, THAT'S WHERE THE NOTES ARE. UH, I THOUGHT I PUT IT IN HERE. UM, IT'S ACTUALLY, UH, UH, FIGURE 1200 AND SHOWS THE TABLE, AND THAT'S WHERE THE NOTES ARE INCORRECT NOTES ONE THROUGH FOUR ON THE BOTTOM OF THAT FIGURE. OKAY. LEMME SEE THAT. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SHARE THAT? SURE. AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE LOOKED AT THAT, WHAT WAS SUBMITTED, THAT'S FIGURE 1200. LET'S GO BACK TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE. I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST THIS ONE. I BELIEVE IT WAS A CODE. THAT'S THE ENTIRE PAGE. OKAY. DOES SECTION 1200 SHOW, UH, WHERE LIKE YOU WOULD GO WHERE CODE SECTIONS ARE? UM, ACTUALLY IT, IT IS THE OLD 1000. AND THEN IS THERE ANY NOTES TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS PARTICULAR FIGURE HERE? NO. OKAY. SO I'M GONNA HAVE TO GO BACK MY NOTES AND I'LL SUBMIT THOSE TO, I'LL GO BACK AND SUBMIT THOSE TO YOU. I'LL SCAN THEM, UH, BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE DRAFT BOOK. UM, AND THEY ARE CALLING FOR, FOR A SECTION 1200. IT'S A NEW, UH, WRITE UP, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE, AND THE NOTES ON THE BOTTOM STILL REFER TO THE OLD SECTION 1000 YOU. YES. AND THIS DRAWING IS, IT IS MAINLY MEANT TO KIND OF CLARIFY AND MAYBE MAKE SIMPLE SOME OF THE LANGUAGES THAT, THAT ARE IN THESE SPECIFIC ARTICLES AND MAKE INFORMATION KIND OF GET, I DON'T KNOW, SOME OF THE WORDING AND LANGUAGE. BUT THIS IS KIND OF, KIND OF HELP, HELP YOU SIMPLIFY, IF YOU WILL, THE SCENARIO YOU WOULD RUN WHERE YOU, YOU WOULD BE INSTALLING THESE . AND WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT, THIS, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR DRAWING WITH MY CONTRACTORS, THEY WERE VERY PLEASED. UM, IT SEEMED LIKE THERE WAS ACTUALLY SOME, LIKE YOU SAID, IT SIMPLIFIED IT. SO THEY, THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE DRAWING HERE AT ALL, UH, OR ANY QUESTIONS AT FIRST. WE LOOKED AT IT AND WAS LOOKING AT THE, UH, DASH LINES AND CUSTOMER, UH, UNDERGROUND SERVICE ENTRANCE, LATERAL, UH, LATERAL, FOR EXAMPLE, GOING TO THE BUILDING. UH, THE ONLY QUESTION WE DID BRING UP, AND THEN, THEN WE CLARIFIED IT OURSELVES WAS, WAS SECTION D. UH, IF YOU LOOK AT A, B, AND C, THEY'RE ALL, UH, ALL THE TRANSFORMERS HAVE AN X AND D DOES NOT. THE SECONDARY, IS THAT AN ENCLOSURE OR IS IT A TRANSFORMER THAT WE FIGURED OUT IT WAS AN ENCLOSURE? SO, RIGHT. THAT'S WHY THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT I BROUGHT UP. WHY ARE THEY ALL X, BUT RIGHT. IT COULD, RIGHT, IT WAS MEANT TO KIND OF DIFFERENTIATE. AND, AND JUST TO, TO KIND OF CLARIFY OR, OR I GUESS MAYBE THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE B IS ONE OF THE MORE TRICKIER INSTALLATION, UM, FROM THE STANDPOINT OF CORRECT THE SECONDARY LATERAL TRANSFORMER ON ADJACENT PROPERTY. AND SO THEY'LL HAVE TO BE EASEMENTS GRANTED, UH, TO, TO OBTAIN THAT LATERAL. UH, AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A, A TYPE OF INSTALLATION. WE RECOMMEND FOR THE OTHER FACT THAT NOW YOU ARE KIND OF BEHOLDEN UNTO THAT OTHER TRANSFORMER OWNER FOR OUTAGES. UM, AND POTENTIALLY THEIR OUTAGES MAY IMPACT THE, THE, LET'S JUST SAY [00:30:01] THE PROPERTY ON, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE. UM, SO YOU KNOW, THE, THE REAL PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO PROBABLY INSTALL, UH, A, A FEE OR A, FOR THAT CUSTOMER HAS PRIMARY FROM, FROM THE EXISTING TRANSFORMER OVER TO THEIR NEW TRANSFORMER ON PROPERTY SIDE. UH, SO THE OTHER, THE OTHER LITTLE WRINKLE, I GUESS IS THE TAB BOX, RIGHT FROM A U R D TYPE TRANSFORMER. THOSE ARE GOING TO BE, IT'S HASN'T BEEN DONE NECESSARILY. IT'S NOT A STANDARD. SO GOING TO HAVE TO KIND OF LEARN TOGETHER AS A AND THE INSTALLERS OUT THERE IN THE FIELD, RIGHT? UM, OKAY. FOR A TRANSFORMER GREATER THAN 250 K V A, IT, IT IS A CABINET STYLE AND IT WOULD AFFORD A TYPICAL WIREWAY INSTALLATION. BUT FOR U R D TYPE, UH, THAT WOULD BE CONDUITS UNDER THE GROUND. AND SO, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GET INTO THE BENDING RADIUSES AND SOME OF THOSE, SOME OF THOSE, UH, TYPE INSTALLATION PROBABLY, UH, AGAIN, IT, IT, IT, IT GONNA BE A LEARNING CURVE FOR, FOR THOSE FIRST TYPE INSTALLATION THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HASN'T BEEN TESTED AND EVALUATED. SO, UH, THERE MAY BE, I, I SUSPECT THERE'S GONNA BE QUITE A BIT OF CHANGES, UH, TO THIS NEW SECTION AFTER THE FIRST GO ROUND. OKAY. AND, AND I, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY ANTICIPATED TOO. UM, AND, UH, BUT, UH, UH, I, I HAD, UH, A, A GROUP OF EXPERIENCED, UH, CONTRACTORS THAT HAVE WORKED WITH YOU GUYS, UH, WITH C P S QUITE A BIT, AND THEY SEEM PRETTY HAPPY ABOUT THIS DRAWING. I'M REFERRING TO ANOTHER TABLE CALLED 1200.1. IT SAYS, MAXIMUM NUMBER OF CONDUCTORS FOR SINGLE PHASE PAD MOUNT TRANSFORMERS. UH, IT'S, IT, IT'S SHOWING 1 22 40 VOLT SINGLE PHASE UNDERGROUND RESIDENTIAL DISTRIBUTION PAD MOUNT, WHERE THAT'S THE ONE. THAT'S EXACTLY THE ONE. SO IF YOU LOOK, THIS IS CALLED THE TABLE 1200.1, BUT THE NOTES UNDERNEATH STILL REFER TO GOING TO SECTION 1000, WHICH IS NOT THE SAME THING I THOUGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE CORRECTIONS NEED TO BE. NO, WE, WE ACTUALLY POINT BACK TO THE, THOSE FIGURES, UH, THE SAME TYPE OF, UH, SCENARIO. UH, WE CAN CONFIRM THAT AND VERIFY THAT, BUT WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK. WE, WE GO BACK AND REFER TO A LOT OF THAT FOR THE, SPECIFICALLY FOR THE, THE, THE CABINET STYLE. AGAIN, ONCE YOU GET OVER, UH, TRANSFORMER, UH, A TRANSFORMER AT 250 K D A UHHUH , YOU DON'T KNOW HOW DEALING WITH THE TYPICAL CABINET STYLE AND THE WIREWAYS AND IN SECTION 1000 WOULD APPLY. OKAY, SO THEN THE NOTES ARE CORRECT, ISN'T, YES. OKAY. OKAY. AND NOTE FOUR IS, OKAY, SURE. 1,205. OKAY, NOW THAT ONE'S REFERRING BACK TO SECTION 1,225 IN ARTICLE 1,225 DASH ONE. OKAY. AND THEN THERE'S STILL A TABLE 1000.2 FOR CABLE WIREWAY FOR SIZES. OKAY? YES. RIGHT. IN, IN, IN EFFORT TO MINIMIZE PAINT RATHER THAN REPRINT THE SAME PAGES SECTION TO SECTION TO SECTION, WE REFER BACK IN, IN THESE INSTANCES. GOOD. OKAY. OKAY. SO THOSE, THE, THE, THE FIRST PICTURE YOU SHOWED ME WAS VERY SIMPLE. I, I BELIEVE ME, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON THAT ONE. AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF LEARNING CURVES THERE. AND I THINK THEY HAD SOME QUESTIONS TO, WELL, DO THEY WANT US TO PULL IT? DO, DO THEY WANT US TO PULL THE CONDUCTORS OR ARE THEY GONNA PULL 'EM? OR ARE WE GONNA PROVIDE THE CONDUCTOR? ALL THOSE KIND OF QUESTIONS. I THINK THAT'S NOT FOR THIS MEETING HERE, I THINK THAT'S GONNA BE MORE OF A, A LEARNING CURVE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. UM, RIGHT. BUT, BUT YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT. AND, AND IF I DON'T MIND USING SOME OF THE MINUTES HERE TO TALK ABOUT THAT, THAT THAT IS DEFINITELY A SAFETY PRECAUTION FROM OUR STANDPOINT. AND, AND AS WITH ANY ENERGIZED, UH, EXISTING TRANSFORMER, UH, THE CONTRACTORS NOT TO, TO INTERCEPT OR GET INTO ANY OF THOSE TYPE OF, UH, PIECES OF EQUIPMENT, AND IT IS, WE, WE STATE THAT MULTIPLE TIMES, UH, THROUGHOUT THE BOOK. SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO CATCH, BUT JUST KIND OF THROW IT IN THERE AT THE BEGINNING STAGES, UM, OR AT THE BEGINNING, HEADERS OF EACH SECTION. BUT IN GENERAL, C P S ENERGY WOULD, UH, USE OUR CREWS, UH, AT THE CUSTOMER'S EXPENSE TO PROVIDE SUB OUTS FROM ENERGIZED EQUIPMENT, SAY, YOU KNOW, WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE EQUIPMENT EXITING WITHIN FIVE FEET, AND A CONTRACTOR BRINGS IT TO US. UM, AGAIN, THAT'S KIND A VERY TYPICAL OF OUR, OF OUR TYPE OF COOPERATION WITH, UH, WITH OTHER CONTRACTORS AND . IS THAT [00:35:03] OKAY? UM, I THINK THE OTHER THING I HAD, UH, THAT WAS A SECTION 1304 REVISIONS TABLE REFERS TO 1304 0.1, BUT THERE IS NO SECTION 1304 0.1, IT'S MISSING. IT'S, IT'S TALKING ABOUT REFERRING TO THAT DEFINITION. UH, BUT THERE ISN'T ONE OH, STARTS WITH THE 1304 0.2 0.3 0.4. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE, THAT'S A CORRECTION OR SOMETHING I'M NOT UNDERSTANDING, OR IF THAT DEFINITE, I IT'S MISPRINTED AND IT NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN AS 1304 0.2, NOT 0.1 13. OH 4.3 OR 0.3. YEAH. AND SO IF, IN MY NOTES I PUT THERE, I THINK, UH, THERE'S A 1304 REFERS TO 1304 0.1, BUT THERE IS NO SECTION 1304 0.1. UH, I'M NOT, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ARTICLE CLARIFIES PIPELINE, PRIMARY CABLE AND LANGUAGE. SO, SO ARTICLE 1304 0.1 CLARIFIES THE DUCK IN PRIMARY VOLTAGE, CABLE LANGUAGE. WELL, THE BOOK THAT I HAVE DOESN'T SHOW 1304 0.12, SO IT STARTS OFF ON THE NEXT, ON THE PAGE PRIOR. RIGHT. WELL, BECAUSE WE, WE JUST EDITED SECTION 1300, SO, OKAY. OKAY. SO THERE IS A DEFINITION FOR IT NOW. OKAY. CORRECT. IN THE, IN THE, IN THE NEW DRAFT SECTION, AGAIN, THOSE, THOSE 1200 1300 IS A COMBINATION OF BOTH THE, THE OLD 1200 AND THE OLD 1300 BY AND ALL AS A PRIMARY VOLTAGE CHAPTER. UH, WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE AS LITTLE IMPACT, UH, TO THE REST OF THE BOOK AS POSSIBLE. SO WE BUILT ONE OF THE SMALLER SECTIONS, UH, AND COMBINED TWO OF THEM TOGETHER TO OPEN UP SECTION 1200 AGO. AND, AND MY LAST QUESTION WAS GONNA BE, AND, AND THAT MAKES SENSE NOW, AND MY, MY BOOK MAY NOT HAVE HAD THAT PAGE, BUT, UH, MY LAST QUESTION WAS, AND NOW IT MAKES SENSE THAT I SAW THAT YOU PULLED IT UP. UM, 2001, 2000.1, NOTE TWO, IF YOU WANT TO GO THERE, 2001 POINT, I'M SORRY, 2000.1 NOTE TWO READS THAT THE TRANSFORMER SWITCH SHALL BE OPEN TRANSITION, MAKE OR BREAK, UH, MAKE BEFORE BREAK. AND THIS IS, UH, SPEAKING ABOUT GENERATOR TRANSFER SWITCHES. AND, AND IN THAT SECTION, UM, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ONLY FOR THE, UH, LE LEGAL, UH, STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, UM, IF WE HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, A CONTRACTOR THAT WANTS TO, IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG FROM WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, MAKE BEFORE BREAK, ET CETERA, SHOULD IT READ BREAK BEFORE MAKE FOR SAFETY REASONS? THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT LEADS TO BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE TO CROSS NORMAL POWER AND EMERGENCY POWER, WHICH COULD LEAD TO TWO, UH, TO CROSS TWO SOURCES OF POWER. NOW, IF THAT'S A IZED STATE STATEMENT IN THE INDUSTRY, THEN IS THAT SOMETHING YOU GUYS SAY IN C P S OR IF THAT'S STANDARDIZED? I UNDERSTAND, BUT SO, UH, SO AGAIN, I'M, I, THAT'S, I GUESS WHAT WE SENT OUTSIDE THE SCOPE THIS REQUEST WAS, BUT, BUT I, I'LL SPEAK TO THAT. UM, THE, THE, WE DO HAVE A SECTION IN THERE FOR GENERATION GENERATORS, UH, IN OUR DT MANUAL APPLICATION. UH, AND WHEN THAT'S FILLED OUT, IF IT IS REQUESTED THAT THERE BE A, A MOMENTARY, UH, TIME, WE, WE SEND THAT APPLICATION AND THOSE, THAT INFORMATION OVER TO OUR DISTRIBUTION PLANNING GROUP, UH, PRIMARILY, YES, WE WOULD PREFER FOR EMERGENCY TYPE THAT , BUT, BUT THEY DO THE REVIEWS FOR THAT TO ENSURE THAT WHATEVER THE MOTOR SINK, UH, REQUIREMENTS ARE, AND THERE'S OTHER SPECIFICS THAT THEY HAVE TO FILL OUT, YOU KNOW, I E E REQUIREMENTS DIFFERENT EFFECTS ON THE ACTUAL GENERATOR, BUT, BUT IF IT IS WITHIN A, A WINDOW OF CYCLES, UM, DISTRIBUTION PLANNING, UM, SECTION WILL REVIEW THAT AND GIVE THEIR DETERMINATION ON, ON THE ABILITY TO DO THAT OR NOT DO THAT. UM, IT'S, IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT, AGAIN, ANY, ANY MISCALCULATION ON THIS STEP ON, ON THE CUSTOMER'S PART. RIGHT. UM, OUR PART OF THE LINES ARE, ARE PRETTY SOLID AS FAR AS THE PACING AND OF, OF HOW WE RUN. SO THAT THERE DEFINITELY, THERE DEFINITELY COULD BE DAMAGE CUSTOMER. UM, THERE, THERE'S DEFINITELY A LOT OF STATE, STATE, [00:40:01] STATE BARS THAT NEED LOOK UP. YOU BROKE UP A LITTLE BIT, BUT I GOT MOST OF IT. UH, I'M HERE. YOU, YOU'VE GOT A DEPARTMENT THAT EVALUATES THIS. AND, UH, WHEN I SAW IT, I WAS JUST CONCERNED ON A LEGAL STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, UH, WE, WE HAVE, UH, I JUST DON'T WANT SOMEBODY COMING BACK, UH, AND IT DOES GO BAD, OR, OR, UH, IF IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE THIS WAY, AND THEN THEY USE IT AGAINST US BECAUSE, WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU TOLD US TO DO IT THIS WAY, YOU SAID, MAKE OR BREAK, NOT BREAK BEFORE MAY. SO THAT WAS MY ONLY CONCERN. BUT IF YOU HAVE A TEAM THAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO, UH, GO IN THIS DIRECTION AND, AND CHECK FOR CLEARANCES, THEN I UNDERSTAND. UH, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT. NOT A LOT OF FOLKS KNOW THAT THEY STILL NEED TO GO TO THAT, THE, THE ONLINE, UH, APPLICATION AND FILL THAT OUT AND SUBMIT FOR THAT. UM, SO WE, WE MAY SEEK TO ADD MAYBE SOME CLARIFICATION OR SAY REQUIRED, UH, REQUIRED FOR REVIEW, NOT IF IT'S NOT ALREADY IN THERE. OKAY, GREAT. I GOT MOST OF THAT, UH, THAT, THAT WAS ALL THE NOTE I HAVE TO NOTE OUT ON MY, ON, ON THE 1200.1. I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT, BUT IT, BUT YOU SEEM TO HAVE CLARIFY THAT, AND, AND I, IT DOESN'T, I UNDERSTAND IT NOW. AND THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO MAINLY TALK ABOUT IS, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT, THAT WHAT, WHAT'S BEING PRODUCED AND IS, UH, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT DISCREPANCIES, UM, IN ANY, ANY WAY, ESPECIALLY IF THIS BOARD IS LOOKING AT IT. UM, THAT'S ALL I, NO, NO PUN INTENDED HERE WHATSOEVER. I, I JUST LOOK AT THINGS LIKE THAT WHEN YOU ASK ME TO LOOK AT CODE SECTIONS AND THEN THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE CORRECT. SURE. , YES, BRITTANY IS ALWAYS WELCOME. YES, OF COURSE. AND THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE, UH, TAKE, TAKE TAKING MY, UH, UH, MY NOTES HERE. I APPRECIATE IT. YOU BET. MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT'S ALL I HAVE, SIR. OKAY. UH, DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE, UH, ON THE, UH, CHAIRMAN, CHAIRMAN GARCIA? I JUST, YES, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. I JUST WANNA AMEND, UH, MR. VASQUEZ FOR THOROUGHNESS AND ADDRESSING THESE ISSUES, WHICH IS THE CHARGE OF ALL OF US ARE, SHOULD BE DOING ON ISSUES THAT WE HAVE A KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE. SO, MR. VASQUEZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR THOROUGH, I AGREE YOU DID A VERY GOOD JOB OF GOING THROUGH AND, UH, WE ALL KNOW GOING THROUGH CODES AND, AND GOING THROUGH THE, UH, THE BACK AND FORTH. SOMETIMES A LOT OF TIMES CODES REFER TO OTHER PARTS OF THE CODE OR DIFFERENT CODES, AND SO I'M REALLY GLAD HE WENT THROUGH AND WAS VERY THOROUGH ON THAT. DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS MAX . YES. UM, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO COME TO END, UH, MR. VASQUEZ ON HIS ANALYSIS. I'M WONDERING IF, UH, BECAUSE HE DID SEND AN EMAIL IN IF WE SHOULD NOT HAVE THAT EMAIL RESPONDED TO, UH, BY C P S, UH, C REPRESENTATIVES. SO IT'S A MATTER OF RECORD. UH, DO YOU THINK THAT'S A, A CRITICAL ISSUE AT THIS POINT? LET'S ASK MR. BRASCO. YOU KNOW, CAN YOU HEAR ME? IT WOULD, I, I, I THINK, UH, BECAUSE AS OFFICIAL AS THIS MEETING IS, THERE WERE SOME REALLY GOOD RESPONSES BACK. AND ACTUALLY, UM, MR. PEREZ, I, I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT TO JUST STATE THAT EVERYTHING, UH, LOOKS, AND, AND IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT EVERYTHING IS OKAY. AND I, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE ON RECORD, JUST SO IT DOESN'T GO BACK ON C P SS SAYING, UH, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS A DISCREPANCY. I I JUST LOOK AT THE LEGALITY POINT OF IT, YOU KNOW, ON ANY PUBLIC COMING BACK AND STATING THAT WE DIDN'T MAKE THESE CORRECTIONS 'CAUSE THEY, THEY WERE CORRECT. OKAY. UH, IT SOUNDS LIKE MR. VASQUEZ IS SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSES HE GOT TODAY, UM, WHICH IS GOOD 'CAUSE HE WAS, UH, PRETTY THOROUGH IN HIS ANALYSIS AND RESEARCH OF THE, UH, STANDARDS. ARE THERE ANY OTHER, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THE STANDARD? UH, IF THERE ARE NONE, THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE WE COULD, UH, HAVE A MOTION, UH, TO APPROVE THESE RECOMMENDED CHANGES. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THE RESEARCH IS DONE AND WILL NOT BE NEEDING A SUBCOMMITTEE UNLESS COURT'S BOARD STILL FEELS THE NEED TO DO THAT. WE CAN DO THAT AS WELL. BUT, UM, AT THIS POINT, UH, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS. SO THEN LET'S HAVE A MOTION. MR. ROBERT HANLEY. UH, BASED ON THE, ON THE DISCUSSION, UH, I MOVE [00:45:01] THAT WE APPROVE, WE BOOK THE POST AMENDMENTS TO THE C P S ENERGY STANDARDS FOR THANK YOU. WE HAVE A MOTION FOR MR. HENLEY TO APPROVE THE, UH, TO APPROVAL, APPROVAL TO THE CITY, OR TO APPROVE THERE. MOTION FOR MR. HANLEY, UH, TO APPROVE THE C P S STANDARDS UPDATES. DO WE HAVE A SECOND, UH, SMITH SECOND. AND WE HAVE A SECOND FROM MR. SMITH STAFF ROLL CALL. RON . APPROVED. CHRISTOPHER GARCIA? YES. MAX HALFORD. YES. EARL VASQUEZ? YES. ROBERT HANDY? YES. MICHAEL REESE? YES. MICHAEL RU. YES. BRIAN SMITH? YES. WILLIAM BURRIS. WILLIAM BUR, HONOR WILLIAM BUR, PERHAPS A BATHROOM JACK OR, YES. MOTION PASSES WITH A VOTE OF NINE TO ONE. THANK YOU. I TAKE IT THE ONE TO AN INSPECTION. OKAY. SO [2. Vote to establish a Sub-Committee to review the 2018 International Swimming Pool and Spa Code and amendments for future adoption.] THEN WE'LL MOVE ON TO ITEM AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS TO VOTE TO ESTABLISH A SUBCOMMITTEE TO REVIEW THE 2018 INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL AND SPA CODE AND AMENDMENTS FOR FUTURE OPTION STAFF JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UH, CORRECT. SO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER TWO IS TO ESTABLISH A SUBCOMMITTEE TO REVIEW THE 2018 INTERNATIONAL SWIMMING POOL FALL CODE, WHICH WILL BE ENFORCED BY STATE LAW ON SEPTEMBER 1ST, 2020. SO, UH, THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME THE CITY HAS ADOPTED THIS CODE. UH, ITS MANDATE FROM THE STATE, UH, THAT THAT REQUIREMENT GOES LIVE ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. UH, SO THIS WILL BE LOOKING AT FIRST 2018, UM, AND UNDER ITEM THREE WILL BE, UH, CREATING SUBCOMMITTEE TO BE LOOKING AT THE 2020 ONES. SO WE'LL BE LOOKING AT THE 2021. HOPEFULLY WE'LL PROBABLY JUST SHOOT IN SUBCOMMITTEE THAT'LL BE OF SUPPORT, UH, ASIDE, BUT, UH, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT THAT HERE IN THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO TO TRY TO HAVE ANY AMENDMENTS READY. UH, FOR THE CITY ITSELF, ONCE THE UH, STATE REQUIRES US TO ADOPT, GO LIVE THAT NEWS STANDARD, UH, THE SUBCOMMITTEE, UH, JUST FOR ATION WILL NEED ARRANGED FROM FOUR TO SEVEN. SEVEN, UH, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE CAN BE COMPRISED OF BOTH PRIMARY AND ALTERNATE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. IF THEY HAVE BOTH A PRIMARY AND ALTERNATE OF THE SAME POSITION, UM, THEY NOT BE, CANNOT VOTE TOGETHER ON THE SAME MEETING. SO IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE, UH, S BOARD MEMBERS, UH, FOR THE COMMITTEE, UH, A PRIMARY AND ALTERNATE ARE THE SAME POSITION. IF THE PRIMARY NOT THERE TN VOTE, UH, BUT IF THE PRIMARY IS THERE, THE ALTERNATES NOT VOTE, BUT YOU CAN STILL BE PRESENT TO DISCUSS AND, UH, PROVIDE INFO TO THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND LATER ON FOR ITSELF. OKAY. SO AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WELL, JUST TO CLARIFY, UM, JEREMY, DID YOU SAY WE'RE GOING TO, FOR REGARDING THE, THIS, THIS, UH, , SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT 2018, BUT THEN IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'LL ALSO HAVE AT THE 2021 VERSION, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. UH, WE JUST DON'T THINK THE 21, THE 2020 ONES WILL BE AVAILABLE TO US IN TIME FOR THE SEPTEMBER 1ST DEADLINE. SO WE'LL, UH, GO THROUGH THAT INITIAL REVIEW OF THE CODE AND STANDARD COME UP, UH, CITY AMENDMENTS, UM, AND THEN PUT ON THAT FOR THE 2018, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, A FEW MONTHS LATER, WE'LL FOLLOW UP 20. AT THIS POINT, DO WE HAVE ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN VOLUNTEERING TO BE ON THE, UH, 2018 SUPREME POOL AND SPA CODE? UH, THIS, THIS IS MIKE ROSS. I'D LIKE TO BE ON THAT ONE. OKAY. UH, BRIAN SMITH. I WOULD AS WELL. OKAY. HOW MANY MORE YOU NEED? [00:50:02] I HALF FOUR, IS THAT CORRECT? WE NEED MINIMUM FOUR. YEAH, I'LL HELP OUT ON IT. OKAY. SO NOW, MR. , I THINK WE'RE UP TO THREE. IS THIS SOMETHING? WHAT'S THAT? THIS IS PULLMAN FALL. UM, ALSO, UM, WE WOULD'VE, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE PLUMBERS HERE. UH, I'M NOT SURE IF THE BOARD WANTS CONSIDER, UH, THIS, THAT IS HEAVY IN THE PLUMBING CODE AND ELECTRIC CODE. UH, THIS STANDARD, THIS ROBERT LEY, I AGREE WITH WILLIAM BURROWS. WE NEED SOME ELECTRICIANS AND PLUMBERS ON THAT COMMITTEE. JUST STATE STRUCTURE. GO AHEAD. LET ME, THIS IS RO GO AHEAD AND PUT ME ON THAT COMMITTEE IF IT'S, IF THERE'S OPEN SPOTS AVAILABLE, I'LL, IF IT HAS ELECTRICAL CODE IN THERE FOR SURE ON SIX 80, I I'LL BE ON THAT ONE. I'S SUCCUMB MINE TO, UH, SPENCER, IF WE COULD GIVE HIM TO, SINCE HE'S NOT HERE, IF WE COULD GIVE HIM ON THAT, THAT WOULD BE BETTER THAN, THAN ME BEING ON THAT. OKAY. I MEAN, HAVE THREE AVAILABLE SPOTS. WE HAVE FOUR. I MEAN, UH, I'VE GOT A PROCEDURAL QUESTION FOR YOU SO WE CAN VOTE TO CREATE THE SUBCOMMITTEE. AND AS FAR AS THE, THE FULL MEMBERSHIP, DO WE HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE LIKE THE COMPLETE LIST RIGHT NOW? OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT ONCE WE GET A HOLD OF THE, UH, PLUMBING MEMBERS ON THE BOARD, WE CAN ADD THEM, UH, OUT OF, WE CAN ADD THEM AS WE GET CONFIRMATION THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED? YES. UH, I BELIEVE AS LONG AS WE HAVE MINIMUM OF CALL MEMBERS ON THE COMMITTEE, YOU GUYS CAN ESTABLISH THE COMMITTEE. AND IF THERE'S OTHER MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT PRESENT NOW AND WANT TO BE PART OF IT, WE CAN ADD THEM TO IT AS VOTING MEMBER UP TO SEVEN NUMBER. IF IT'S MORE THAN THAT, THEN THEY WOULD JUST SIT AND LISTEN AND PROVIDE THEIR INPUT. OKAY. YEAH, KEEP ME ON THEN I'LL STAY ON. OKAY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE THE, UH, ROOM BOARD TO GET STARTED AND WE CAN, UH, REACH OUT TO THE PLUMBERS ON THE BOARD TO MAKE SURE WE GET THE, UH, PLUMBERS INVOLVED IN THIS ONE. OKAY. THAT BEING SAID, I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO ESTABLISH, UH, SUBCOMMITTEE TO READ THE 2018 INTERNATIONAL SWING FORMS ALL CODE AND CREATE AMENDMENTS IF NEEDED. ROBERT, I CALL FORWARD. SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE A MOTION FOR MR. HANLEY AND A SECOND FROM, I WASN'T UNABLE TO HEAR THAT IN A VOICE I CALL FORWARD. OKAY. SECOND. OKAY. AND THEN SECOND FROM MAX . UH, IF YOU CAN DO THE HAS BOARD, IF YOU CAN DO THE VOTE. STAFF APPROVED. CHRISTOPHER GARCIA? YES. MAX HOSFORD . RAUL VASQUEZ APPROVE. ROBERT LEY? YES. MICHAEL RE RICE? YES. MICHAEL RU. YES. RYAN BRIAN SMITH? YES. WILLIAM BURRIS. APPROVED. JACK WARREN? YES. MOTION PASSES WITH A VOTE OF 10 TO ZERO. ALSO NEXT TO [3. Vote to establish Sub-Committees to review the 2021 Codes and amendments for future adoption.] THE AGENDA WILL BE ITEM NUMBER THREE, WHICH IS THE VOTE TO E SUBCOMMITTEES TO REVIEW THE 2021 CODES AND AMENDMENTS FOR FUTURE ADOPTION. UH, POINT OF CLARIFICATION, MR. CHAIRMAN RON CMIS, IS THIS ALL GONNA INCLUDE TO E ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE FOR, TO EVALUATE THE 2020 N E C? THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICE. ? YES. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO, UM, QUICK PROCEDURAL QUESTIONS. SINCE THERE'S MULTIPLE BOARDS, THERE'S MULTIPLE SUBCOMMITTEES NEEDED TODAY, SOMETHING WE'RE GOING THROUGH, UH, THE INITIAL EQUIPMENT, IF YOU WILL, FOR ALL , FIVE OR SIX OF THEM, THE SIX OF THEM. [00:55:02] THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD. UM, COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? I'M NOT SURE I FOLLOW UP. OH, SINCE THERE'S GOING TO BE SIX SUBCOMMITTEES, UM, AT THIS TIME. SO WE NEED TO TRY TO, TO COME UP WITH THE INITIAL FOUR, UM, AT THIS TIME FOR EACH OF THE SIX SUBCOMMITTEES SO THAT WE CAN GET STARTED. CORRECT. UH, WE WOULD NEED TO GO AHEAD AND IF WE'RE GONNA ESTABLISH THAT SUBCOMMITTEE AND HAVE A MINIMAL . OKAY, THAT'S FINE. UH, ROBERT HENRY, UH, CHAIRMAN, CAN WE GET A LIST OF THE VARIOUS SUBCOMMITTEES OF THE SIX ZERO LIST SOMEWHERE? UH, JUMP TO THE SCREEN THAT I'M SHARING. I HAVE A EXCEL SPREADSHEET, UH, THAT, THAT WE HAVE THE INTERNATIONAL MECHANICAL CODE, A SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WILL LOOK AT THE INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE AND FULL GAS CODE. UH, NEXT COMMITTEE WILL DO THE BUILDING, RESIDENTIAL BUILDING, COMMERCIAL BUILDING, THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEMS BUILDING, AND THE I O C NEXT WILL BE THE ENERGY CODE AND THEN FINALLY THE, THE SWIMMING POOL IN FALL. OKAY. OKAY. UM, CHAIRMAN GARCIA, UM, THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THAT LIST OUT. JEREMY. UH, ROBERT HANLEY WILL BE WILLING TO SERVE ON THE BUILDING CODES AND THE ENERGY CODE. I CALL BRIAN SMITH. AND THIS IS ON TWO AS WELL. OKAY. LET'S LET, UH, STAFF CATCH UP WITH THESE SELECTIONS THAT WILL GO ON. OKAY. AND, UM, SO THAT ORIGINALLY SENT OUT AN EMAIL TO ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS, UH, REQUESTING FEEDBACK TO, UH, HELP MOVE THIS ALONG A LITTLE BIT FASTER. UH, MS. AL'S REFERENCE. IN ADDITION, UH, TO THESE WE ALSO HAD KAREN CARPENTER AND JOE LAYS SALES, LOOKING TO JOIN THE VOTING CODE I R C. THANKS WILLIAM BURRIS, LIKE TO JOIN THE I B C I C CODE COMMITTEE SUBCOMMITTEE. OKAY. SO THAT AT LEAST WILL ALLOW US TO, UH, DEVELOP THE CODING CODE BARCODE 15 RESIDENTIAL CODE FROM THE ENERGY, UH, WHICH ACTUALLY, UH, JOE, UH, THAT AS WELL. FOUR NEEDED ESTABLISH THE ENERGY CODE. UH, THIS IS MICHAEL RESA. I WOULD LIKE TO SIT ON THAT CODE TOO. THAT, SO COMMITTEE, THANKS. ANY OBJECTION TO, UH, COPYING OVER THE SWIMMING POOL SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WE'LL BE MEETING FOR 2018 ONTO 2021? I DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT. THAT'S FINE. SO THE N E C, UM, WE RECEIVED FEEDBACK FROM, UH, MICHAEL PRICE, RON , MARTINEZ, AND JOE, UH, IF NEEDED. UM, SO I PROBABLY WANT GO ON THAT, THAT ONE, THAT, THAT WOULD GIVE US THE FOUR THAT JEREMY, THIS IS WILLIAM BURRIS. UH, YOU CAN ADD TO THE, UH, POOL SUBCOMMITTEE BOTH ON THIS TAB AND THE OTHER TAB. UM, YOU VOTED ON THE, UH, 2018 ALREADY. UM, WHAT [01:00:01] WE'LL HAVE TO DO IS YOU CAN HAVE, WE'LL, I'LL LINK YOU INTO THAT FIRST MEETING FOR THAT ONE, AND THE SUBCOMMITTEE CAN VOTE YOU IN AT THAT TIME. VERY GOOD. THANK YOU. THIS IS GARY K. I'D LIKE TO BE ADDED TO THAT. N E C SUBCOMMITTEE, PLEASE. IS THERE A, ON THE, UH, CAN WE PUT, UH, NON-BOARD MEMBERS ON THAT ONE? UH, FOR THE N E C I HAVE AN ENGINEER THAT WANTS TO BE ON THERE WHO'S BEEN ON THERE BEFORE. IS THAT THE TIME TO, IS THIS THE TIME TO DO THAT? NO, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DO. UH, THERE. WE'LL MAKE IT OPEN. UM, ANYBODY, THERE'S REALLY NO FORMAL REQUIREMENT TO HAVE SOMEBODY BE, UH, ATTENDING THE MEETINGS. UH, AS FAR AS NONE OF 'EM ARE ALLOWED TO VOTE. UH, SO WE CAN LOOK AT ANYTHING ABOUT FORMALLY MAKING THEM KINDA A, A, A NON-MEMBER OF THE BOARD, BUT SHOW UP. CORRECT? CORRECT. YEAH. SO YEAH, THEY CAN ALWAYS SHOW UP. UH, THESE ARE ALL THE OPEN RECORD, UH, OPEN MEETINGS, UH, TO THE PUBLIC. AND WHAT WE'LL DO IS, UM, WE'LL MAKE A LIST OF ALL THE INTERESTED, UM, GROUPS THAT WANNA BE PART OF THESE, AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, UM, REACHED OUT TO BEFORE ANY OF THE MEETINGS SO THEY'RE KIND OF AWARE OF 'EM, UH, BEYOND JUST PUBLIC BROADCAST TO THE AGENDA ITEM. UH, TO LATER START. THANK YOU HERE FROM JEREMY. THIS IS WILLIAM BURRIS AGAIN. YOU CAN ADD ME TO THE I M C SUBCOMMITTEE. UH, I M C WAS ANOTHER ONE THAT GOES, UH, I'LL GO THAT ONE. CURRENTLY WE ARE LOOKING FOR TWO MORE BOARD MEMBERS FOR MECHANICAL OR FOR THE PLUMBING. UM, AND THAT WOULD BE ON THE SUBDIVISION. YOU CAN PUT ME DOWN FOR THE, UM, IAM FOR THE MECHANICAL OR THE PLUMBING. WHAT I'M SAYING THEY'RE NOT HERE, THEY'RE, YEAH. CHAIR. THAT WAS FOR THE I M C? YES, I M C AND THE, UH, THE PROMINENT TOOL, UH, I DID SPEAK WITH, UH, COUNSEL AND THE MEMBERS DON'T HAVE TO BE HERE, UH, FOR THE, THE PRESENT BOARD, UH, TO NOMINATE SOMEBODY ONTO, UH, THE COMMITTEE. SO, UH, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE PLUMBERS HERE, UH, TO SPEAK ON WHETHER THEY WANT TO BE PART OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE BOARD IS ABLE TO CONSIDER SO WE CAN, UH, VOLUNTEER THEM FOR COMMITTEES. , WOULD THAT BE VOLUNTEER OR VOLUNTOLD? WHATEVER WORKS. FORGET WHEN YOU DON'T SHOW UP, YOU GET VOLUNTEERED. I SECOND THAT. OKAY. LET'S, LET'S GO AHEAD AND HAVE THE, UH, WHAT, YEAH, LET'S GO AHEAD AND HAVE THE PLUMBER . IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE INTERESTED IN THE, IN THE PLUMBING ONE? I WANNA MAKE SURE WE HAVE, I WANNA MAKE SURE WE DON'T HAVE ANY FOREIGN ISSUES. NO. OKAY. AND CHAIRMAN GARCIA, DID WE, GO AHEAD. UNDER THIS ACTION ITEM, APPROVE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF SUBCOMMITTEES PENDING, UH, THE ADDITIONAL APPOINTMENTS BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT WE NEED TO DO THIS IF WE DON'T HAVE FOUR SINCE, UH, DO WE HAVE TO HAVE NAMES IN THOSE SLOTS TO APPROVE THE SUBCOMMITTEE AND WE JUST APPROVE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE? SO THAT'S THE ATTORNEY QUESTION. IF YOU CAN, YOU CAN DO IT IF THEY, WHATEVER, WHOEVER'S TALKING CAN'T. YEAH, I'M NOT SURE'S TALKING RIGHT NOW. ATTORNEY BRIEFING. JEREMY, I BELIEVE, UM, I THINK THE INTERPRETATION WOULD BE YES, WE COULD, BUT NOBODY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE ADDED TO THAT SUBCOMMITTEE WITHOUT A MEETING, SINCE THEY WON'T HAVE THE FLOOR TO ACTUALLY HAVE A FORUM THAT WE WOULD ACTUALLY BACK TO THE FULL BOARD TO ACTUALLY VOTE SOMEBODY ON . SO WHAT, WHO DO WE NEED MORE FOR? FOR WHICH ONES? PLUMBING, PLUMBING AND MECHANICAL. ONE. ONE MORE THING. MECHANICAL. ROBERT WILL DO MECHANICAL. I'LL DO PLUMBING. YOU GOD. THIS IS, THIS IS MICHAEL REISA. I'LL ALSO SIT ON THE MECHANICAL ONE IF NEEDED. GOOD. YOU CAN TAKE PROPERTY IN THE OFFICE. ? YEAH, YOU'RE [01:05:01] FINE. YOU CAN PUT BRIAN ON ALL OF THEM. NO . I'M ALREADY ON THREE. DUDE. SOMEONE NEEDS TO STEP FOR PLUMBING, BUT WE DO NEED ANOTHER ONE. IF WE CAN'T GET ANOTHER ONE, I'LL DO IT, BUT DON'T STEP UP. I CAN STEP UP. KELLY, I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. UH, WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THAT? JACK . SO ON RECOMMENDATION FROM THE CHAIR, I ADDED THE, UH, WE, WE HAVE THREE PLUMBERS ON THE BOARD. UH, SO, UH, JEFF AND SCOTT ARE BOTH, UH, THE PRIMARY AND ALTERNATE IN THE SAME POSITION. UH, SO WE WOULD STILL NEED THAT FIFTH, UM, IN ORDER TO ACTUALLY HOLD A MEETING AND HAVE THESE VOTES, UH, THIS WOULD JUST ALLOW, UH, ONE OF 'EM TO KIND OF REPLACE EACH OTHER, UH, DURING THOSE MEETINGS, UH, IN CASE, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER TO MEET A MINIMAL FORUM. JEREMIAH, JEREMY IS, UH, SCOTT THE ALTERNATE TO JEFF BYER? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. JEREMY, DO WE HAVE FOUR FOR EACH SUBCOMMITTEE NOW? UH, YES. LOOKS LIKE WE DO FIRST ONE. YES. THE PLUMBING. DID WE GET THAT EXTRA? DID WE GET THE EXTRA PERSON WE NEEDED FOR THE PLUMBING ONE? YES. CORRECT. OBJECT ON THERE. WE HAVE FIVE NOW. UH, TWO. SAME COMMISSION. OKAY. YOU, THE DEFENSE SAID ROBERT HANLEY REMOVED TO APPROVE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SUBCOMMITTEES TO REVIEW THE 2021 CODES AND AMENDMENT FOR FUTURE ADOPTION. I A MOTION FOR MR. HANLEY. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. AND WE HAVE A SECOND FOR MR. SMITH STAFF. PLEASE DO THE ROLL CALL VOTE. UH, MR. CHAIR, BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE VOTE, UM, UH, CAN YOU JUST CLARIFY THAT THE, THE I P M C THAT ECHOES, UH, THAT'S GONNA BE APPOINTED FROM THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD, NOT, IS THAT RIGHT? WE'RE NOT MISSING THAT ONE. I'M SORRY. YOU ON MY END. YOU WERE BREAKING UP PRETTY BAD FROM THE PROPERTY. THE PROPERTY MANAGER THAT COMES FROM THE BUILDING STANDARDS BOARD, NOT FROM US. IS THAT RIGHT? THAT THAT IS CORRECT. THANK . YES. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND . RON APPROVED. CHRISTOPHER GARCIA? YES. MAX HOFFER. YES. RONALD VASQUEZ. YES. ROBERT HANDY? YES. MICHAEL RICE? YES. MICHAEL RU. YES. BRIAN SMITH? YES. WILLIAM BUR YES. ? YES. MOTION PASSES WITH A VOTE OF 10 TO ZERO ALSO. NEXT WE'LL GO ON TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR, WHICH IS, UH, ADVISE THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ON A PROPOSED MODIFICATION DIRECTLY FROM THE PALM OF YOUR HAND. THE MOBILE APP CAN BE DOWNLOADED FOR FREE FOR IPHONE AND STAFF REACHING OUT TO THE, UH, UH, MR. STRYKER WHO IS GOING TO BE WORKING WITH US ON THIS PRESENTATION. OH, OKAY. [4. Board will advise the Building Official on a proposed modification submitted by Robert Stricker for IB176 to accept non-engineers letter for Tunnel Inspection.] UM, ITEM NUMBER FOUR, THE BOARD WILL ADVISE THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ON A PROPOSED MODIFICATION SUBMITTED BY ROBERT STRYKER, ID 1 76 TO ACCEPT NON-ENGINEERS LETTER OR TUNNEL INSPECTION. OKAY. UH, I'M GONNA CHECK THIS STAFF TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE MR. STRYKER ON THE LINE. UH, PLEASE GIVE YOU ONE MINUTE. OKAY, [01:10:49] WELL, WE'RE WAITING ON THIS. UH, AMIN, I'VE GOT A QUICK QUESTION. I TAKE IT THE SUBCOMMITTEE MEETINGS WILL ALSO BE THROUGH THE WEBEX FORMAT, IS THAT CORRECT? YES. THAT, THAT, THAT IS CORRECT. THAT, PLEASE, FOR THE TIME BEING. UM, IF ANYTHING CHANGES, THEN WE WILL REVERT THAT TO A IN-PERSON MEETING WHEN THE TIME ALLOWED. OKAY. I MEAN, THIS IS WILLIAM BURRIS. WILL ALL BOARD MEMBERS BE NOTIFIED WHEN THE SUBCOMMITTEES ARE MEETING OR JUST THE SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS THEMSELVES? UH, NORMALLY WE REACH OUT TO THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE AVAILABLE THAT DAY, AND IF THEY CONFIRM AVAILABILITY, THEN WE SUPPLY ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT WE HAVE AT MEETINGS. SO IF YOU CHOOSE TO ATTEND YOUR WORK. OKAY. UH, THIS IS JERRY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I BELIEVE WE HAVE MR. ER ON THE LINE. I'M JUST GONNA CONFIRM REALLY QUICK AND THEN WE WILL, UH, MUTE AND MOVE TO START THE AGENDA. ITEM NUMBER ONE WITH OUR DIRECTOR MICHAEL SHANNON AND OUR CHIEF PLUMBING INSPECTOR, DAVID ROY. MR. ECKER, JUST WANT TO CONFIRM YOU ARE ABLE TO HEAR AND SPEAK TO US. YEAH. YES, I'M HERE. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA MUTE YOU NOW FOR THIS PART OF THE PRESENTATION. I'LL UNMUTE YOU, UH, WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN TO, UH, SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE BOARD. ALRIGHT, MR. SHANNON. ALRIGHT. UH, THANK YOU JEREMY. UH, THANK YOU BOARD MEMBERS. UM, GOOD AFTERNOON. I KNOW IT'S A FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND, UM, IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL, UH, EVEN THOUGH IT'S THROUGH WEBEX, I HOPE YOU'RE ALL DOING WELL AND STAYING SAFE. SO, UH, BUT IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, I'LL GET RIGHT TO IT. UM, WE PUT THIS ITEM ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE, UH, AS THE BUILDING OFFICIAL, I GET TO USE YOU AS THE, UH, BUILDING AND FARM CODE APPEALS ADVISORY BOARD FOR, UH, ADVICE, UH, ON BUILDING CODE MATTERS. UM, SO I DID A LITTLE HISTORY ON THIS ITEM IS ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, UH, LATE 2018. UH, ROBERT TRICER, WHO IS, UM, WITH, UH, R V S CO CONSULTING. UM, MANY OF YOU MAY KNOW, UH, ROBERT USED TO WORK WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO AS OUR CHIEF, UH, PUMP INSPECTOR FOR, UH, I'LL, I'LL LET HIM, UH, TELL YOU, BUT A COUPLE OF DECADES OR SO. BUT HE'S A, A VERY QUALIFIED, UM, A MASTER PLUMBER, UH, WITH A LOT OF QUALIFICATIONS AND EXPERIENCE. UH, HE HAD COME TO US, UH, A COUPLE YEARS AGO IN 2018, ASKING TO BE ALLOWED TO, UH, CERTIFY AS, AS SOMEWHAT OF A THIRD PARTY, UH, THE TUNNEL INSPECTIONS UNDER FLOOR PLUMBING REPAIRS. UH, WE HAVE AN INSTALLATION BULLETIN ON THAT. AT THAT TIME, WE WERE MAKING SOME CHANGES TO THE PROCESS. UM, AND, UH, WE LOOKED AT THE PROGRAM, UH, OR HIS PROPOSAL TO ALLOW HIM TO DO THAT. AND, UH, WE, WE DEFINED IT AT THAT TIME. I DENIED IT AS BUILDING OFFICIAL, UH, THE CURRENT PROCESS. UH, DAVID CODY, OUR CHIEF UH, PERFORMING INSPECTOR, WILL WALK THROUGH THAT. UM, BUT ESSENTIALLY RIGHT NOW IT IS THAT A CITY INSPECTOR, UH, WILL, UH, VERIFY THAT THROUGH VIDEO INSPECTION ON SITE OR REMOTE ALONG WITH THE PLUMBER OF RECORD, UH, OR A LICENSED, UH, PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER, UH, CAN, UH, SIGN A THIRD PARTY INSPECTION CERTIFICATION OF THAT. UH, SIMILAR TO MAYBE A STRUCTURAL, UH, UH, CERTIFICATION, UH, WITH OUR BUILDING RELATED TO. SO, UH, SINCE, UH, OCTOBER, 2018, UH, MS. RICKER HAS, UH, REACHED OUT TO US A LITTLE BIT, UH, UM, AND, AND A LOT MORE RECENTLY, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS ASKING US TO RECONSIDER. UM, WE HAVE LOOKED AT THAT AND WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH, UH, NOT ONLY OUR TEAM MEMBERS HERE, BUT, UM, SOME OF THE STATE, UH, UH, TEXAS STATE, UH, BOARD, UM, OF, UH, PLUMBING, UH, EXAMINATIONS. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, STILL NOT [01:15:01] AT THE POINT WHERE I'M WILLING TO APPROVE THAT AS A CONCERN. UH, BUT WHAT I, I TALKED TO MR. STRICKER AND I SAID, UH, I THINK THIS WOULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR BOTH MEMBERS, UH, WITH YOUR EXPERTISE IN A WIDE RANGE OF CONSTRUCTION BUILDING CODE, UH, DESIGN, INSTALLATION, UM, EXPERTISE, UH, TO, TO HELP ME, HELP ME, UH, JUST GIMME SOME ADVICE ON THAT. UM, AND MAYBE A RECOMMENDATION. UH, I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE ANY PLUMBERS, UH, THAT WE'RE ABLE TO BE HERE TODAY. SO, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GONNA AFFECT OUR DISCUSSION. UH, I WOULD CERTAINLY, UH, WANT THE PLUMBING COMMUNITY TO BE ABLE TO WAIT ON THIS. SO, UH, WE'LL SEE HOW THIS GOES. BUT, UH, I DID, UH, WANT THAT DAVID BRODY TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES AND WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT OUR CURRENT PROCESS IS, AND THEN I'LL WRAP UP AND, AND CERTAINLY GIVE MR. TRICER, MR. TRICER TO BE ABLE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, TALK TO YOU ABOUT HIS PROPOSAL AND, UM, AND THEN WE CAN, YOU KNOW, JUST SEE WHAT YOU GUYS THINK. OKAY. UH, DAVID ROY, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU. THANK YOU MR. SHANNON. THIS IS DAVID ROY, DEVELOPING SERVICE. JEREMY, COULD WE GO TO THIS? UH, THERE YOU GO. JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, EVERYONE'S FAMILIAR WITH THE, UH, TUNNEL INSPECTION, THE TUNNEL PROCESS. WE, WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THESE TUNNELS AND ACTUALLY OUR FIRST INFORMATION BILL IN 1 7 6 IN, BACK IN THE MID NINETIES. AND, UH, AND WE REVISED THE TUNNEL IB SEVERAL TIMES SINCE THEN THROUGHOUT THE YEARS. AND OCTOBER OF 2018 WAS OUR LAST REVISION, WHICH IS CURRENT PROCESS TODAY. THE, UH, TOTAL IB THAT WAS REVISED IN TWO EIGHT IN 2018. UH, THERE'S SEVERAL OPTIONS FOR THE CONTRACTOR TO OBTAIN HIS INSPECTION AND THAT TUNNEL IB. WE, UH, WE ALLOW A OPTION A, WHICH IS AN ENGINEER'S LETTER FOR THE TUNNEL REPAIRS. WE, UH, OFFER A OPTION B. OPTION B IS A, IS A PLUMBING COMPANY. WILL SHALL PROVIDE FIBER OPTIC TILE CAMERA, ADEQUATE TWO-WAY COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT ON SITE. WE WILL, WE WILL CALL THEM, MEET THEM ON SITE, AND WE WILL VIEW THEIR VIDEO EQUIPMENT OUTSIDE THE TUNNEL. WE DON'T GO IN THE TUNNEL WHILE THEY GO INSIDE THE TUNNEL AND TAKE PICTURES SUCH AS THIS, SUCH AS THIS ITEM NUMBER FOUR THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. THEY'LL TAKE PICTURES AND THEY'LL INSPECT IT VIA VIDEO ON SITE. SINCE THE COVID CAME AROUND, UH, BACK IN MARCH, WE'VE, UH, TRYING TO LIMIT CONTACT WITH INDIVIDUALS. UH, SINCE WE'RE, SINCE WE WERE, UH, VIDEO AND WATCHING THE VIDEO ON SITE OF THE INSPECTION, WE CHOSE TO R B I REMOTE VIDEO INSPECTION, UM, AT THE JOHN LONG SENIOR PLUMBING INSPECTOR AT HOME. DURING THESE REMOTE VIDEOS, WE GOT OTHER SENIORS IN THE OFFICE DOING THESE TUNNEL REMOTE VIDEO INSPECTIONS. ALSO, IN THE LAST TWO MONTHS, UM, MAYBE 42% OF THE ACTUAL INSPECTIONS, UH, THE CONTACT WITH THE CONTRACTORS WAS OKAY, 47 INSPECTIONS A MONTH. WE WERE, WE WERE DEALING WITH THE, WITH THE TUNNELS AND THE, UH, 34 OF THOSE CONTRACTOR CHOSE TO SUBMIT AN ENGINEERS LETTER INSTEAD OF, UH, FOLLOWING US OUT THERE. INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH US ON THE INSPECTION OR EVEN DEALING WITH US ON THE REMOTE VIDEO INSPECTION, THIS OPTION IS AVAILABLE IN OUR IB. WE HAVE A PRE-FORMATTED ENGINEER'S PLUMBING LETTER THAT THE ENGINEER MAY SUBMIT, UH, ON HIS, ON HIS, UH, INSPECTION ON SITE. ALSO, PART OF THIS IV IS, UH, AN ENGINEER'S LETTER, PRE-FORMATTED D S D ENGINEER'S LETTER TO ADDRESS ANY STRUCTURE. 'CAUSE WHEN YOU, OF COURSE, YOU CAN SEE BY THE PICTURES WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU TUNNEL UNDERNEATH THE STRUCTURE LIKE THAT IT OCCUR, UH, MAY AFFECT, UH, ALL KINDS OF CONDITIONS. SO WE HAVE THE STRUCTURAL FOR THE ENGINEER, WE HAVE THE FUNDING FOR THE ENGINEER. WE ALSO HAVE THE COMBINATION LETTER THAT THE ENGINEER CAN SUBMIT FOR, FOR THE STRUCTURAL AND THE FUNNEL. SO I [01:20:01] JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE TUNNELS WERE ALL ABOUT IN OUR CURRENT IV PROCESS. AND, UH, THAT LAST ITEM, UH, ABOUT, UH, WE, WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED ANY REQUESTS FROM ANY CONTRACTORS THAT, UH, NOT SATISFIED WITH OUR PROCESS OR WANT TO UNDER US TO PERHAPS, UH, PURSUE OTHER OPTIONS. UH, SO FAR THE RBIS ARE WORKING OUT GREAT AND, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF CONTRACTORS. UH, ALSO CHOOSE THE ENGINEERS THAT ARE OPTION, DEPENDING ON THEIR, ON THEIR TIME AND WHATNOT ON THE PROJECT. USUALLY THE ENVIRONMENT, THE RAIN THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING FIRSTLY EFFECT THE TUNNEL. THEY WOULD CHOOSE THE ENGINEER OPTION THAT ALL THE LETTERS ARE SENT, THE CALL CENTER, THE ENGINEER LETTERS, AND THEN THEY'RE PASSED ON UP TO THE PLUMBING DEPARTMENT. ALL THOSE LETTERS ARE REVIEWED, UH, FOR COMPLIANCE BEFORE WE GO INTO THE SYSTEM AND APPROVE THE PLUMBING INSPECTION. AND THAT'S ALSO BEEN APPROVED AND, AND REVIEWED, BROUGHT OFF, SO TO SPEAK, BY THE STATE ATORY. AS LONG AS WE REVIEW THE LETTERS AND PLUMBING INSPECTOR APPROVED THE PLUMBER'S PERMIT, EVERYTHING IS FINE. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU, DAVID. UM, AND I'LL JUST, I'LL JUST FINISH UP AND, AND I WANT, UM, MR. STRIP TO HAVE A, UH, A AN ADEQUATE TIME TO, TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT HIS PROPOSAL. UM, BUT, BUT CERTAINLY, UM, WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH OUR CHAPTER 10 AND THE REQUIREMENTS AND, UH, AND THE ALLOWANCE THAT, UM, THAT , UH, WE CAN APPROVE. I CAN, UH, AS THE OFFICIAL THROUGH A PROCESS APPROVE, UH, OUTSIDE KIND OF THIRD PARTY, UH, INSPECTION REPORTS. UH, WE'VE WORKED A LOT A LONG TIME WITH THE ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS, UH, THROUGH DEVELOPING THOSE CRITERIA. AND I, UH, I THINK, UH, THE, THE APPROACH THAT MR. STRICKER HAS GONNA PROPOSE OR HAS APPROACHED US WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, I FELT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO GO THROUGH THE CODE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. AND, UH, BUT THAT'S BEEN, IT'S BEEN A WHILE AND IT MAY BE ON HOLD FOR A LITTLE BIT. UH, SO JUST KIND LOOKING FOR YOUR INPUT ON THAT, OR IF THERE'S A RECOMMENDATION. AND CERTAINLY, UH, I KNOW I MENTIONED THERE'S NO PLUMS TODAY, BUT, UM, I'LL JUST GOTTA OPEN IT UP AND, UH, LET MR. STRICKER HAVE HIS TIME AND THEN, UH, ASK YOU ALL TO WALK YOU IN AS MUCH OR AS LITTLE AS YOU WANT. SO, UM, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S IT FOR ME FOR NOW. ALL RIGHT, MR. STRICKER, IS IT YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO THE BOARD? HI, HELLO. BOARD. UH, I, I WANNA THANK MIKE AND THE DAVID. THEY KIND OF WENT OVER A LOT OF THINGS I WAS GONNA TALK ABOUT WITH THE LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND AND, AND WHERE THIS ALL STARTED AND WHAT GOT GOING FORWARD. I ALSO HAVE TO CLEAR UP A FEW THINGS, AND I KNOW DAVID MENTIONED THEY HAVE GOT ANY COMMENTS OR LETTERS FROM ANYBODY. THAT'S BECAUSE I'VE BEEN GETTING 'EM, AND, AND THEY CALL ME AND SAY, HEY, CAN YOU DO IT YET? UM, CAN YOU MAKE THOSE DISCUSSIONS FOR US? OR WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT TO GO BACK A LITTLE BIT, WHEN, WHEN I FIRST APPROACHED 'EM, I, I POSTED 'EM BECAUSE THAT WAS BROUGHT TO MY SESSION BY THE PLUMBERS. THEY WERE ASKING ABOUT IT BACK IN 2018, AND THAT'S WHAT GOT STARTED. AND AT THE TIME THAT I FIRST MET WITH MY CONSTANTINO AT THE TIME, I BROUGHT 20 SOME ODD LETTERS FROM PLUMBING COMPANIES THAT SUPPORTED WHAT, WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO. AND, AND IN GENERAL, USING MY SERVICES FOR LOTS OF REASONS. AND DAVID KIND ALLUDED SOME OF THAT TO SOME OF THOSE MEETING, NOT HAVING TO MAKE SPECIAL APPOINTMENTS TO WORK AROUND AN INSPECTOR'S SCHEDULE, WHICH I, I DID THIS FOR 21 YEARS WITH CITY SAN ANTONIO, SO I KNOW ABOUT SCHEDULING AND THE NUMBER INSPECTION THAT THE PLUMBING SECTORS GET. SO THIS WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE A SERVICE THAT MAY BE MORE CONDUCIVE TIME-WISE TO GET THINGS INSPECTED AND DONE. UM, THE, THE PROGRAM THAT THEY ALLUDED TO, YOU KNOW, THEY CHANGED ID IN 2018, THE MID NINETIES, I DID THAT 1995, I'M WANNA PUT THAT TOGETHER. AND THAT PROGRAM AND THE DIMENSIONS AND STATE REQUIREMENTS ARE USED AT A LOT OF OTHER CITIES AROUND THE STATE. AND THEN THE ONE THAT I DID ORIGINALLY BACK IN 1995. SO I'M VERY, UH, KNOWLEDGEABLE AND EXPERIENCED CAPABLE OF PROVIDING THE SURFACE. UM, AND THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN ALLUDED TO. SECTION 1 0 4 0.4, THE BUILDING CODE DOES GIVE MICHAEL SHANNON, THE DIRECTOR, THE RIGHT TO, UH, TAKE IT. DOESN'T SAY ENGINEER JUST SAYS, UH, INSPECTION REPORTS FROM AGENCIES OR INDIVIDUALS, BUT WHATEVER IT MAY BE. AND IT GOES IN FURTHER LANGUAGE, BUT YOU CAN READ THAT YOURSELF, WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, BUT GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO ACCEPT, UH, [01:25:01] MY LETTER NOW IN I B, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DID MAKE SOME CHANGES TO YOU, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WHEN AN ENGINEER WRITE THE LETTER, YOU CAN GO AND REVIEW IT YOURSELF. THEY USE WORDS LIKE ASSESS, OBSERVATION, OBSERVE, THEY NEVER USE THE WORD INSPECTION BECAUSE THEY DON'T, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PUT THEMSELVES INTO THAT KIND OF A LIABILITY. THEY USE THOSE WORD. SO I WAS TRYING TO CLEAN THIS UP TO REMOVE SOME OF THOSE ORDERS AND PUT THE WORDS THAT'S ACTUALLY USED. SO THEN IT'S ALL WORKS WITH WHAT THE ENGINEER LETTERS ARE COMING IN AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT ALL NOT UP AND CLEANED SOME THINGS UP ALONG THE WAY WITH, WITH WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE. AND BOTTOM LINE IS THE RESULT. I STILL HAVE PEOPLE CALL ME AND ASK ME, UM, THEY HAD MENTIONED THAT OF THE 47 SECTIONS, 34 OF 'EM WERE ENGINEERS LETTERS STANDING. WELL, THAT MEANS QUITE, NOT A WHOLE LOT OF 'EM ARE USING THE, THE, UH, VIDEO PROCESS. SO THOSE 34 OUT OF 42, OBVIOUSLY SOME OF 'EM WILL PROBABLY START USING LIVE SERVICES AS WELL IF IT'S AVAILABLE. AND LIKE I SAID, NO FANCY TO ANY ENGINEER OR WHATEVER, BUT I AM A MASTER PLUMBER. I'VE BEEN DOING PLUMBING SINCE 1975. I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. I WORKED FROM CITY SAN ANTONIO FROM 2000, I MEAN FROM, UH, 1988 UP UNTIL 2009. AND I WENT FROM THERE TO A SMALL TOWN AND CAME THE DIRECTOR OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FOR ABOUT FOUR AND A HALF YEARS BEFORE I RETIRED FROM MUNICIPAL WORK AND STARTED DOING ALL THING. I DO COS CONSULTING AND I HAVE 40 SOME ODD REGULAR CUSTOMERS AS WELL AS A COUPLE CITIES THAT PAY ANNUAL FEE FOR CONSULTING ON THE CODES AND SO FORTH, AS WELL AS UNFORTUNATELY AFTER THE EXPERT WITNESS SOMETIMES IN COURT WITH, UH, RELATED ITEMS THAT'S PLUMBING RELATED. SO I'VE GOT THE EXPERIENCE, I'VE GOT THE BACK BACKING UP ON WHAT I'M TRYING TO OFFER HERE, AND I'M JUST ASKING FOR Y'ALL OR FOR ACTIONS ASKING MICHAEL JUST TO USE WHAT THE CODE ALREADY ALLOWS ME TO DO 1 0 4 AND TO ACCEPT THE ABILITY FOR ME TO MAKE THESE, UH, PROVIDE THIS SERVICE. AND HE BROUGHT IT TO Y'ALL. AND I HOPEFULLY, I'M, I'M SORRY THAT THERE'S NOT ANY PLUMBERS ON THERE, UM, BECAUSE I, I WOULD FEEL LIKE THEY COULD SPEAK FROM THAT ASPECT AND, AND, AND GIVE Y'ALL SOME MORE INFORMATION THAT THEY, THE FACT THAT I DO HAVE THE, AGAIN, THE QUALIFICATIONS TO DO THIS. AND SOME OF 'EM MIGHT EVEN PREFER THAT I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN PROBABLY ACCOMMODATE THEIR TIME SCHEDULE A LITTLE BIT EASIER AND THE INSPECTORS CAN, OR SOMETIMES EVEN ENGINEERS CAN. SO THAT'S WHAT THIS COMES DOWN TO IS MAKING THE SERVICE MORE CONVENIENT FOR EVERYBODY, UM, AND, AND GET THE END RESULT IS TO GET THE JOB DONE, GET THE HOMEOWNER BACK TO THE HOUSE THAT'S SOMEWHAT NORMAL AGAIN, AND, AND NOT ALL CUT UP MESSED UP OR WHAT HAVE YOU. SO IN A NUTSHELL, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT. ALL RIGHT. UH, I'M JUST THANK YOU ROBERT. AND I THINK, UH, THIS IS GOT THE, THE POINT, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN AND, AND BOARD MEMBERS WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, AS, AS OUR CODE ALLOWS, UH, AND YOU GUYS CAN HELP ME WITH RECOMMENDATION AND THEN I GET USE IF, UH, UH, IF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO SHARE OR, UH, AND, UH, I'LL JUST KIND OF SIT BACK AND LISTEN AND IF YOU CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS IF YOU'D, UH, THIS IS CHRIS GARCIA. I HAVE A CLARIFICATION. IS THIS SPECIFIC TO MR. STRICTER HIMSELF, OR IS THIS A BROAD QUESTION TO, TO DEFINE, UM, OTHER QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT SOUNDS LIKE INSPECTORS OR ENGINEERS. AND SO IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WOULD APPLY TO, UM, ANYONE WHO HAS A CERTAIN SET OF QUALIFICATIONS, WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER TO, TO, YOU KNOW, DEVELOP THIS LIST OF QUALIFICATIONS WE'D BE WILLING TO ALLOW TO DO THESE INSPECTIONS. SO IS THIS SPECIFIC TO ONE INDIVIDUAL OR IS THIS KIND OF A BROADER BASE? HEY, IF, IF AN INDIVIDUAL HAS CERTAIN CREDENTIALS, QUALIFICATIONS, YOU KNOW, UH, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS ALSO. SO, UM, SO MR. TRICER HAS, UH, SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR HIM TO BE ALLOWED UNDER THE PROVISION OF APPROVED AGENCY OR INDIVIDUAL. HOWEVER, CERTAINLY, UM, YOU KNOW, PART OF MY DENIAL IN 2018 WAS I, I CERTAINLY DIDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE APPROVING AN INDIVIDUAL AT A SINGLE PERSON APPROACH. UM, MR. STRICKER CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDS THAT OUR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPING A LIST OF MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS, POSSIBLY, UH, WHETHER IT THE LEVEL OF LICENSURE OF A THIRD PARTY, UM, PLUMBER OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF QUALIFICATIONS, UM, THAT THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED. BUT, UH, WHEN I ASKED MR ABOUT THAT, JUST A, YOU KNOW, A FEW WEEKS AGO WHEN WE LAST HAD, UM, IT SPECIFICALLY, HE'S ASKING FOR HIM TO BE ALLOWED TO DO IT. [01:30:02] OKAY. THIS HONOR, KAMAN, I WOULD, I WOULD THINK THAT WITH THE QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS WE HAVE FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT THE CITY HIRES AS INSPECTORS, THAT AT THE VERY LEAST WE USE THAT AS A BASELINE TO BEGIN FROM. IT'S JUST A THOUGHT RIGHT ON YOU. NO, I GOT, I THINK WE CAN HEAR YOU. OKAY. BUT I JUST WANNA CLARIFY SOMETHING IF I COULD FOR, UH, CHRIS, THAT THEY TALKED EARLIER, YOU, YES, I CAME TO YOU ABOUT MYSELF, BECAUSE AT THAT TIME, THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING AT. BUT WE ALSO SAT DOWN AND TALKED ABOUT COMING UP WITH SOME CRITERIA. I EVEN OFFERED SOME IDEAS OF WHAT TO USE, BUT I'M NOT, I MEAN, I WASN'T STRICTLY SITTING THIS AS A SOLE PERSON SITUATION. I WAS WILLING TO SIT DOWN, WHICH THAT MEETING NEVER HAPPENED. BUT TO HAVE A MEETING TO DISCUSS WHAT THE QUALIFICATION COULD BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE THAT MET THOSE QUALIFICATIONS, SO WEREN'T JUST SAYING, OH, WE'RE GOING OUT JUST MR. TRICER ONLY, NO, I WASN'T THERE. NO DIFFERENT THAN WHEN YOU ACCEPT EIGHT YEARS LATER, YOU DON'T SPELL OUT A CERTAIN ENGINEERING COMPANY. YOU HAVE THE CRITERIA. AND THAT'S THE SAME THING WITH ME. I MEET, I MEET THE CRITERIA. OKAY? AND SO WHATEVER THAT CRITERIA IS, YOU KNOW, I I'M GOING TO MEET HIM BECAUSE I I'VE GOT QUALIFICATIONS THAT, THAT'S A FACT. DON'T HAVE TO BEAT AROUND IN THAT BUSH. I'M JUST SAYING TO ANSWER HIS QUESTION IS IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE AS JUST ME ONLY, I, I, I'M THE ONE THAT CAME BECAUSE I ASKED BY A BUNCH OF FARMERS, AND I'M THE ONE THAT STARTED THE PROCESS FOR OTHER THAN AN ENGINEER. BUT SECTION 1 0 4 0.4 ALLOWS HIM SAID THEN AGENCIES ARE INDIVIDUALS, YOU KNOW, THAT IF THE WORD INDIVIDUAL BOTHERS THEM AND COMPANIES CHANGES, THE COMPANIES, WHATEVER THE POINT IS, PUT THE QUALIFICATIONS OUT THERE, WHAT THEY ARE. I'M JUST SAYING I DO MEET 'EM NOW AND WHY WE'RE PUT THAT TOGETHER. THERE'S NO REASON WHY I CAN'T BE IN THE MIDDLE OF DOING THESE INSPECTIONS WHILE, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS, UM, BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN GOING ALMOST TWO YEARS. AND WHEN I FIRST MET WITH MIKE, I WAS SHOOTER AT THAT TIME. IT WASN'T GONNA TAKE A YEAR OR MORE TO GET DONE. AND YET HERE WE ARE. SO WITH THAT, AND THERE WAS LOTS OF REASONS FOR THAT, SO WE WON'T DELVE INTO THAT. BUT THE, TO ANSWER THE QUESTION IS, THIS WASN'T JUST MEANT AS A SINGLE PERSON, IT WAS NOT, I WANT CLARIFY THAT RIGHT NOW. IT WAS NOT. UM, BUT I AM THE ONE THAT CAME FORWARD REQUESTING THIS, AND I WOULD VENTURE JUST SAY, YOU MIGHT NOTICE THAT YOU WANT TO DO IT NOT TO PEOPLE. NOT TOO MANY PEOPLE LIKE CRAWL INTO TUNNELS. I DON'T MIND DOING IT. I'VE DONE IT FOR YEARS. IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. I ALWAYS GO WITH THE SECOND PERSON. SO IT'S ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, I TEACH SAFETY. I TEACH OSHA STUFF AS WELL, SO I UNDERSTAND THE SAFETY COMPLIANCE SPACE. I'VE GOT ALL THOSE CREDENTIALS AS WELL. SO MY POINT IS, I CAN PROVIDE A SERVICE. I JUST HAVE TO BE ONE PERSON THAT MEETS THE QUALIFICATIONS IF THEY WANT TO USE THOSE, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THEY CERTAINLY CAN. THEY JUST NEED TO PUT QUALIFICATIONS OUT THERE. SO THANK YOU MIKE. UH, GENERAL GARCIA, UM, ROBERT HANLEY, MY ONLY COMMENT I HAVE, I I I'VE KNOWN, UH, MR. STRICKER FOR YEARS AT THE CITY, BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF BASE QUALIFICATIONS THAT ARE APPROVED BY THE CITY PLUS, KIND OF SIMILAR TO HOW YOU DO FOR TREE PRUNING, SOME SORT OF MINIMUM QUALIFICATION FOR TRAINING FOR INSPECTORS THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE ENGINEER'S LETTER. AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT THE CITY IS IN A POSITION TO REQUIRE OR TO SET UP? WELL, I THINK, UM, SO MY THOUGHTS ON, ON THIS WHOLE THING, UM, AND AS I MENTIONED IN, IN, UH, YOU KNOW, OCTOBER, 2018 WHEN WE WERE KIND OF DEALING WITH THIS ORIGINALLY, UH, WOULD BE TO ESTABLISH IF, IF THE, UM, THROUGH IT WAS REALLY MY INTENTION TO, TO DISCUSS THIS THROUGH THE CODE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, UH, TO COME UP WITH ONE IF WE WANTED TO DO THIS AND, AND GO FURTHER THAN, UM, THE ENGINEERING, UH, QUALIFICATIONS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY ESTABLISHED AND, AND HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. UM, IF WE WANTED TO MOVE THAT OR MODIFY THAT, I, I WOULD LIKE THE CONSENSUS OF KIND OF THE, THE CODE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. WE, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS JUST SET SOME SUBCOMMITTEES, THEY TACKLE INDIVIDUAL ITEMS, THEY BRING IT TO THE BOARD FOR, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A VOTED ON RECOMMENDATION. AND THAT WOULD INCLUDE WHATEVER THESE MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS AS, UH, AS, AS, UM, RON HAD MENTIONED, WHAT IF WOULD JUST FOLLOW THE CITY'S, UH, MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS FOR A, UH, PLUMBING INSPECTOR OR A SENIOR PLUMBING INSPECTOR OR WHATEVER THAT MAY BE, UM, ALONG WITH THE MINIMUM, UH, KIND OF C E U, RIGHT? IF THERE NEEDS TO BE ADDITIONAL ONES. YOU'RE NOT HOT. I MEAN, TO BE A MASTER PLUMBER OR GENERAL PLUMBER, THEY HAVE REQUIREMENTS AT THE STATE LEVEL. SO, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THAT WOULD BE DEVELOPED THROUGH, UH, KIND OF THIS PROCESS PROCESS. UH, AND AS MR. STRICTER INDICATED, YEAH, IT'S BEEN, IT'S BEEN [01:35:01] A WHILE SINCE, UH, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET TO THIS. WE CERTAINLY THOUGHT WE'D BE KNEE DEEP INTO THE, UH, CODE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS BY NOW OR, OR RIGHT NOW. UM, BUT, UH, BUT I, I THINK IN FAIRNESS TO, TO, TO ROBERT, I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE LEAST HAD A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT IT TODAY AND, AND ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS OR GET SOME ADVICE FROM YOU ALL. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS WILLIAM BURRIS. I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR MR. RODIE. IF I COULD, UM, MR. RODIE, UH, FIRST, UH, AND AGAIN, THIS ISN'T MY EXPERTISE OR MY DISCIPLINE DISCIPLINE, BUT IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT IN THE TUNNEL AND DOES THAT, IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN AN OPEN TRENCH TYPE INSPECTION OR AN ABOVE GROUND INSPECTION THAT MAY BE DONE BY, UH, A LICENSED PLUMBING CONTRACTOR? UH, AND WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE DONE BY AN ENGINEER? AND THEN SECOND, UM, THE ENGINEER'S LEVER, ARE ANY OF THE ENGINEERS USING THE R B I OR, OR ARE THEY PHYSICALLY GOING DOWN INTO THE, UH, THE TUNNEL AS WELL? THIS IS DAVE ROY. UH, THE ENGINEERS ARE GOING IN THE TUNNEL THEMSELVES, OR A REPRESENTATIVE OF THEIR, OF THEIR OFFICE. UH, WE'RE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE DOING THE R B I INSPECTION OF OUR SENIOR INSPECTIONS. AS FAR AS THE, UH, WHAT THE ENGINEERS ARE LOOKING FOR, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR THE SAME THING THAT, THAT, THAT YOU WOULD LOOK FOR IN AN OPEN TRENCH INSPECTION. UH, PART OF THE IB 1 76, IT SAYS, THE LETTER SHALL ADDRESS THE PROPER GRADIENT OF THE REPAIRS, PROPER MATERIAL FITTINGS, PROPER CONNECTIONS, ALL POINT CONNECTION, PROPER SUPPORT, DRAIN LINE. IT'S NORMAL, NORMAL, UH, A NORMAL PLUMBING INSPECTION, PROPER . OKAY. SO AS A FOLLOW UP, UM, AGAIN, NOT KNOWING THE, THE WHO'S QUALIFIED TO DO WHAT, THE, THOSE ITEMS THAT YOU DISCUSSED, UH, IF IT'S AN OPEN TRENCH, DOES THAT HAVE TO BE DONE BY AN ENGINEER AS WELL? AND THEN SECOND, YOU MAY MENTION THAT NOT NECESSARILY THE ENGINEER GOES INTO THE TUNNEL, BUT MAYBE THE REPRESENTATIVE. SO WHAT ARE THE QUALIFICATIONS OF THE REPRESENTATIVE THAT GOES IN, THAT REPORTS BACK TO THE ENGINEER WHO SENDS IN THE LETTER? I BELIEVE THE NORMAL ENGINEERING INSPECTION PROCESS IS ALWAYS INCLUDED. THE ENGINEER OR REPRESENTATIVE OF IS, IS WHAT I'VE BEEN FAMILIAR WITH, I GUESS, MR. WE DON'T HAVE A REQUIREMENT. THIS IS JERRY MCDONALD. UH, I, I THINK AS FAR AS THE INDIVIDUAL THAT GOES DOWN INTO THE TUNNEL WHEN ADDRESSING AN ENGINEER'S LETTER, UH, THAT REQUIREMENT WOULD FALL UNDER THE ENGINEER THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, TAKING ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THAT WORK. UH, THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE A FORMAL, UH, REQUIREMENT OF, OF GOING IN THERE AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ENGINEER STATE QUALIFICATIONS ON THAT ANSWER. THIS IS DAVID GROSS, AND I'LL JUST JUMP IN. LET ME JUST JUMP IN AS WELL. AND THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, UM, MR. BUR, BUT, UM, THE CERTIFICATION THAT, UH, WE LOOK FOR AND REQUIRE FROM THE ENGINEER, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S PROVIDING THIS, UH, IF THEY, IF THEY CHOOSE TO GO THIS ROUTE, UM, REACH, REACH, SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF, UH, AS AN ENGINEER LICENSED IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, I HAVE PERSONALLY OR THE ASSISTANCE OF QUALIFIED INDIVIDUALS UNDER MY SUPERVISION, UM, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. SO IT, IT IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE TEXAS PPE ACT, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I, AS A BUILDING OFFICIAL, UM, HAVE, HAVE ACCEPTED. WE DO THAT WITH OTHER, UH, REQUIREMENTS, UH, IN, IN TERMS OF STRUCTURAL, UH, WHETHER IT BE FRAMING OR OTHERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO, UM, SO THOSE WOULD BE LANGUAGES, UH, AND, AND, AND HOW THEY ARE REQUIRED TO CONDUCT THAT. I'M GONNA CALL IT INSPECTION FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS, WHETHER IT'S OBSERVATION OR ASSESSMENT THAT I KNOW MR. TRICKER WROTE THAT UP, SO I DISCUSSED THAT. BUT, UM, BUT THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. YES, THIS IS DAVID ROADIE. AS FAR AS ADDRESSING THE INSPECTION, UM, ANYTIME A MUNICIPALITY HAS AN ADOPTED ORDINANCE, UH, THEY HAVE TO ADOPT ONE OF THE PLUMBING CODES, THE STATE OF TEXAS, CURRENTLY IT'S A UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE OR THEIR INTERNATIONAL PLUMBING CODE. AND ALONG WITH THAT, UH, THE STATE PLUMBING BOARD ISSUES, UH, GERMAN MASTER'S LICENSE, ALSO INSPECTOR'S LICENSE THE PERFORM AN INSPECTION [01:40:01] IN THE STATE OF TEXAS, YOU NEED TO HAVE TO WORK FOR MUNICIPALITY EITHER FULL-TIME OR TEMP, OR YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR AN APPROVED THIRD PARTY TESTING AGENCY HIRED BY THE MUNICIPALITY TO PERFORM THEIR INSPECTION. SO EVERYONE HERE, UH, IN THE PLUMBING DEPARTMENT THAT PERFORMS PLUMBING INSPECTIONS, HAS A PLUMBING INSPECTOR'S LICENSE FROM THE, FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS STATE PLUMBING COURT. THAT'S HOW WE DO OUR INSPECTIONS. AND OF COURSE, ONE THOSE FOUR BRINGS IN, UH, THE ENGINEER THAT APPROVED BY THE . THAT'S HOW THOSE, THOSE OPTIONS, DID WE LOSE YOU ? OKAY. WAS THERE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS ON THAT? YOU KNOW, UH, IT SEEMS LIKE MR. ROBERT HANLEY, I APOLOGIZE, MR. ROBERT HANLEY IT, AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT TO ME, WHAT DAVE BRODY'S TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, UH, OBVIOUSLY A CERTIFIED INSPECTOR'S IMPORTANT, AND IT MAKES ME THINK OF THE SPECIAL INSPECTION INSPECTORS. IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE THIRD PARTY INDEPENDENT FROM THE CONTRACTOR AND FROM THE DESIGN TEAM TO DO THIS. AS LONG AS IF THE, IF THE CITY WILL ACCEPT A, A CERTIFIED INSPECTOR OR TRAINED INSPECTOR, AND HE'S THIRD PARTY AND HE'S NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE CONTRACTOR OR THE PLUMBER OR THE, THE DESIGN TEAM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE PROBABLY THE WAY TO GO WITH THAT. AS I THINK ABOUT IT. AND, AND IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE, YEAH, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PROCESSING GOING THROUGH, THAT'S WHY THERE'S A LOT OF TIME FACTORS HERE IN, IN BETWEEN. BUT THIS ROLE, UH, YOU, UH, THIS IS IF, IF THE CITY MANAGER, IF, IF THE DIRECTOR'S ALREADY LOOKED AT IT, MY ONLY CONCERNS ARE I, I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME STANDARDS SET IN PLACE. UH, I THINK IT IS A GREAT IDEA. UH, BUT DO WE HAVE THOSE COMPLETED? OR, UH, WHAT CRITERIA ARE WE GONNA MEET FOR THESE BUILDING INSPECTORS TO, UH, BE APPROVED? AND IF WE'RE FOLLOWING THOSE STANDARDS, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT AT ALL. I THINK IT'S, WE NEED THIS. AND, AND MY OTHER QUESTION WAS, ARE THERE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ASKING FOR THIS TYPE OF INSPECTION OR WE, THE ONLY ONES IN IN THE UNITED STATES ARE GONNA HAVE AN INSPECTOR LIKE THIS? GOOD QUESTION. SO IS THIS GONNA OPEN UP MORE, UH, OTHER, OTHER MUNICIPALITIES AND INSPECTORS LIKE THIS? THAT'D BE GREAT. UH, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME STANDARDS, UH, BEFORE WE SET, YOU KNOW, I, I, IF OUR CITY DIRECTOR, IF OUR DIRECTORS ALREADY PUT THOSE IN PLACE, AND, AND I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA, BUT I'D JUST LIKE TO SEE INSPECTORS OR STANDARD INSPECTORS ALREADY HAVE QUALIFICATIONS THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET. IS THIS GONNA FOLLOW THE SAME, IS THIS INSPECTOR GONNA FOLLOW THE SAME CRITERIA AS WHAT OUR OTHER INSPECTORS ARE DOING BY RECERTIFYING RE-QUALIFYING? AND, AND WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE, WHAT IT IS, UH, SOME OF THE STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, LIKE I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, WHAT I WOULD DO, UH, IF I WAS GOING TO, UH, MEET WITH AN INSPECTOR AND AS A, A MASTER ELECTRICIAN, I WOULD BE, I KNOW WHAT I DID. SO, UH, THESE ARE THE INSTALLATION REQUIREMENTS. SO, UH, WHAT ARE THE REQUIREMENTS, UH, THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS INSPECTOR? OBVIOUSLY HE'S GOT 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE. UM, I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING ON GOES, THIS IS THE PROCESS. THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE. WE'VE GOT STANDARDS SET IN PLACE. WHAT ARE WE DOING TO RECERTIFY THIS INSPECTION? NOT JUST THIS PERSON, BUT THE ONES THAT ARE COMING BEHIND HIM. WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF I'M THE, THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING TOWARDS A, TOWARDS THIS. BUT THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS. SO I'M STILL PROCESSING THIS. UM, BACK TO THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ARE, ARE, DO YOU THINK THIS IS GONNA, UH, LEAD OVER TO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES, THE CITY OF DALLAS, OR WHERE HOUSTON ARE THEY GONNA BE LOOKING FOR INSPECTORS LIKE THIS TOO? SO I, THOSE ARE JUST THOUGHT [01:45:01] PROCESSES, YOU KNOW, UH, FOR THE DIRECTOR TO COME IN AND SAY THAT HE'S GOT STANDARDS SET IN PLACE, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. BUT WHICH STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, THE ONES THAT THE INSPECTOR REP FOLLOW. CAN I INTERJECT? THIS IS ROBERT TRICER. YEAH, TO ANSWER, ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, HOW DID THE, I AM A, I ALSO HAD AN INSPECTOR'S LICENSE IN NEVADA SINCE 1988. UM, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH CERTIFICATIONS AND WE HAVE TO GET CONTINUING EDUCATION EVERY YEAR. IN FACT, I'VE AN INSTRUCTING CONTINUING EDUCATION FOR 26 YEARS. I'M AN INSTRUCTOR FOR THAT. BUT YEAH, YOU KNOW, I TOLD ANYONE NEED TO PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE, WHETHER IT BE A MASTER LICENSE THAT'S AMOUNT OF YEARS WITH THAT VA LICENSE, OR IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE AN INSPECTOR, UH, LICENSE PART OF THAT COMPONENT, WHICH THAT, THAT WAS A ANOTHER ISSUE THAT WAS BROUGHT UP. BUT, BUT THERE'S VARIOUS THINGS HAVE, DOESN'T NECESSARILY BE, HAVE TO BE SOMEONE WHO HAD SPENT INSPECTOR'S EXPERIENCE, NOT NECESSARILY. SO IT COULD JUST BE A MASTER PLUMBER WITH X AMOUNT, 10 YEARS OF STRENGTH, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO PUT AS A NUMBER. SO YEAH, WE NEED TO PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE. I'M NOT SAYING WE DON'T, I'M JUST SAYING UNLESS THEY INTENTIONALLY PUT CRITERIA THAT THEY KNOW I CAN'T REACH AND THEY HAVE TO, THEN MAYBE SOME ENGINEERS CAN'T REACH EITHER. THERE'S NOT, AND I'M NOT BEING EGO ANYTHING, I'M JUST, JUST SAYING THERE'S NOT ANY CRITERIA THEY PUT TOGETHER THAT I'M NOT GONNA MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS OF. LIKE I SAID, I WAS THE CHIEF FOR 18 AND A HALF YEARS. I WAS WITH SAN ANTONIO, AND I PUT THIS PROGRAM TOGETHER FOR THE TUNNELS BACK WHEN IT BECAME AN ISSUE. AND WE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT SAFETY. I PUT ALL THAT TOGETHER THAT THEY FOLLOWED ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL THEY QUIT DOING 'EM. AND OTHER PLACES AROUND THE, THE STATE, UH, PICKED UP THAT SAME DRAWINGS THAT I DID, AND THEY'RE USING THEM AS FAR AS ANYBODY ELSE WANTS TO DO THIS. SAN ANTONIO CHANGED THEIR POLICIES. THEY WERE GOING IN AND DOING THE TUNNELS WHEN THEY MADE THE CHANGE, THAT'S WHAT PROMPTED THIS POTENTIAL NEED. AS YOU HEARD, THEY ALREADY MENTIONED THEY HOW GOOD BY VIDEO OR WHATEVER, OR ENGINEER. SO ONCE THEY MADE THAT CHANGE BACK IN 2018, THAT'S WHAT PROMPTED THIS. SO UNLESS OTHER CITIES MAKE THOSE CHANGES AS WELL DECIDE TO DO THIS, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT GO DOWN THIS ROAD. IF THEY DO MAKE A CHANGE, SIMILAR CHANGE, THEN YEAH, THEY PROBABLY ARE GOING TO GO TO, I SAID, I'M GONNA USE THE WORD THIRD PARTY, SOMEONE OTHER THAN THEIR INSPECTORS. SO THIRD PARTY INCLUDES THE ENGINEER, WHOEVER IT MAY BE. SO IT POTENTIALLY, THEY COULD VERY WELL DO THAT. UM, AND, AND PROBABLY WILL AT SOME POINT IN TIME, IF THEY SEE IT WORKING INSIDE , THEY MAY SAY, HEY, WE LIKE THAT. WE'LL DO IT TOO. SO I'M NOT HERE ASKING TO DO SOMETHING WITHOUT QUALIFICATION. I NEVER DID DO THAT. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT MY QUALIFICATIONS, THEY DO, WHAT MY QUALIFICATIONS WORK. AND I SAID, WELL, YOU TO PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER, THEY ASKED ME FOR MY OPINION. I GAVE 'EM SOME IDEAS INITIALLY, AND THEN, BUT IT'S NEVER GONE ANY FURTHER. SO THERE'S LOTS OF OPTIONS THAT THEY CAN PUT IN PLACE AS TO WHAT THAT CRITERIA IS. I THINK IT SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN WHAT THEIR MINIMUM CRITERIA FOR A SPECTRUM IS, BECAUSE WHEN THEY HIRE INSPECTOR, HE'S UNDER THEIR SUPERVISION AND, AND CONTROL A WHOLE LOT MORE SO THAN A THIRD PARTY INDIVIDUAL. SO I THINK IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THE THIRD PARTY, THEN YOU MAY WANT TO STEP THAT UP A LITTLE BIT AND SAY IT NEEDS TO BE A MINIMUM OF MASTER PARTNER AMOUNT OF YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AND, AND THEN WHATEVER ELSE YOU WANNA ADD OR, OR GO FROM THERE, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SOMEONE THAT'S GOT THE INTEGRITY AND EVERYTHING ELSE TO DO WHAT YOU EXPECT TO BE DONE, THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, THEY EXPECT THAT INTEGRITY FROM THE ENGINEER, THAT YOU EXPECT FROM THIS INDIVIDUAL AS WELL. ME OR SOMEBODY ELSE. THANK YOU. WELL, LET, LET ME CLARIFY, UH, UH, SOMETHING REAL QUICK, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I, IF, IF, UH, I CAME OFF AS, UM, AND THIS, THIS IS ROB AGAIN SPEAKING. I'M NOT QUESTIONING YOUR QUALIFICATION BY ANY MEANS WHATSOEVER. UH, THAT WASN'T THE QUESTION, UH, BY ANY MEANS, UH, WHATSOEVER. THE QUESTION IS, AND I HEAR YOU SAY THAT YOU THINK THAT THERE ARE STANDARDS THAT SHOULD BE SET IN PLACE THAT SHOULD BE MORE STRINGENT FOR THIRD PARTY. AND I, AND I AGREE WITH THAT. I DON'T THINK THAT THIRD PARTY SHOULD HAVE ANY, UH, UH, UH, WE, UH, UH, RULES SET IN PLACE THAT ARE, THAT ARE MAKE IT EASY FOR A THIRD PARTY, UH, EASIER TO GET THOSE QUALIFICATIONS BY ANY MEANS. BUT ALL MY QUESTION IS, IS IS IF, UH, DO WE HAVE STANDARDS SET IN PLACE AS ALL? UM, BUT IF, IF I'M, IF I SOUNDED LIKE A, I WAS QUESTIONING YOUR QUALIFICATIONS, I WAS NOT BY ANY MEANS. I'M ASKING IF, IF, IF THERE ARE STANDARDS SET IN PLACE SO THAT WE KNOW A DIRECTION THAT WE'RE GONNA GO WITH THIS, UH, AND SO THAT WE DON'T COME BACK AND, AND ARE YOU PREPARED FOR, FOR AN INSPECTION THAT, THAT, THAT DID GO, YOU KNOW, AND, AND YOUR INSPECTIONS GO WELL, BUT LET'S, [01:50:01] YOU KNOW, WITH THE, WITH SOCIETY TODAY, THEY LOOK FOR ANY REASON TO, WELL, WE HAD AN INSPECTOR INSPECT THIS AND THE TUNNEL CRUMBLED OR COLLAPSED. ARE WE PREPARED AS A GROUP TO, UH, LEGALLY, UH, DEFEND OURSELVES AND SAY, WELL, AFTER THE INSPECTION THEY, THE CONTRACTOR CHANGED IT AND, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. I'M JUST WONDERING, THE CITY'S REALLY GOOD ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE A LICENSED MASTER ELECTRICIAN OR LI UH, WHATEVER, AND ALL THESE ARE SET IN PLACE ALREADY ARE, AS IT MOST OF THAT SET IN PLACE WITH YOU HAVE WRITE-UPS STANDARDS TO PROTECT YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL ALONG WITH THE CITY SINCE YOU'RE GONNA BE A CITY EMPLOYEE. UH, THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. YOU KNOW, DO WE HAVE RULES SET IN PLACE? YEAH. WELL, I DON'T, THEY HAVE IN PLACE, BUT I WOULDN'T BE A CITY EMPLOYEE, BE THIRD PARTY, BUT I CARRY A MILLION DOLLARS OF INSURANCE, AND I'M SURE YOU PROBABLY PAY FIVE OR 10 MILLION, WHATEVER YOU CARRY, BUT YOU, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE PROTECTION YOURSELF THROUGH INTEREST. AND THAT'S A WHOLE SEPARATE ANIMAL ALL TOGETHER FROM, FROM WHAT WE NEED HERE, WHICH IS THE CRITERIA, WHAT'S THE CRITERIA? AND I DON'T THINK THEY, THAT PLACE, WE'VE HAD SOME MINIMAL DISCUSSION ON IT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO OR A YEAR AGO, WHATEVER IT WAS, BUT IT'S NEVER PROGRESSED BEYOND THAT. AND I THINK WE NEED TO, I WOULD LIKE FOR IT TO BE AND GET DONE SO WE CAN GET THIS MOVING BECAUSE IT HAS TAKEN A LONG TIME. AND I WASN'T THINKING YOU WERE QUESTIONING MY QUALIFICATION. I WAS JUST TRYING TO CLARIFY WHAT, WHY WE'RE AT, AT THIS POINT, WHERE WE'RE GOING AND, AND THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO BE QUALIFICATION. THAT'S ALL I WAS TRYING TO DO. OH, YEAH, OF COURSE, OF COURSE. AND, AND, AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT WASN'T QUESTIONED AT ALL, UH, BY ANY MEANS. UH, I, I'M JUST LOOKING AT, AT THE WHOLE PICTURE HERE, AND IT IS JUST MY WAY OF PROCESSING THOUGH, THE WHOLE IDEA. MR. CHAIRMAN, THIS IS WILLIAM BURS. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MR. SHANNON, DIRECTOR SHANNON. UM, MIKE, WHAT WOULD BE THE POTENTIAL COST TO THE CITY, UH, IF YOU WERE TO IMPLEMENT A, A SERIES OF CRITERIA AND, UH, ALLOW INDIVIDUALS, UH, SUCH AS MR. UH, UH, STRICKER AND OTHERS TO DO THIS FOR DEVELOPING AND MAINTAINING A D DATABASE, UH, TO, TO MONITOR THAT THEY ARE CERTIFIED AND THEY ARE, UM, UH, QUALIFIED. UM, AND, UH, SO AS FAR AS, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, STAFF AND TIME, WHAT WOULD, IS THERE A POTENTIAL COST TO YOUR DEPARTMENT FOR DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS? UM, WE, WE HAVEN'T, UH, WE HAVEN'T DONE A COST. UH, I MEAN, THERE, THERE'S ALWAYS A COST WITH ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S, UH, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD, UH, BE TOO CONCERNED WITH. WE, WE DO, WE DO HAVE, UH, UNDER THE SPECIAL INSPECTION PROGRAM, WE HAVE SOME ISSUES LIKE THAT, THAT WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN FOR OUR CODE, SO, OH. UM, SO THE ANSWER IS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COST IS. UM, BUT I BELIEVE, UH, SOMETHING LIKE THIS, UH, WOULD, WOULD BE, UH, WOULD BE A A A DOABLE COST. IT WOULD BE MINIMAL. OKAY. SOUNDS, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE IT WASN'T PUT IN YOUR DEPARTMENT, UH, YOU KNOW, BEHIND THE CART. SURE. YEAH. NO, THANK YOU. I THINK AT THIS POINT, UM, I KNOW WE'VE HAD A GOOD AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION. AND SO THE, THE MAIN FOCUS SEEMS TO BE ON QUALIFICATIONS AND FIGURING OUT, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE WERE TO ALLOW THIRD PARTY, WHAT KIND OF A QUALIFICATION SET, UH, WHAT WE WANT THEM TO HAVE. AND SO I THINK RIGHT NOW, 'CAUSE WE STILL HAVE ANOTHER AGENDA ITEM, UH, THE APPEAL, SO THE'S SIMPLER WAY TO MOVE FORWARD, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE, UM, THERE'S DEFINITE INTEREST. IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S NEED FOR THIS. AND SO, UM, SO BASED, BASED ON HOW THIS, UH, AMENDMENT, AGENDA ITEM IS WRITTEN, IS A QUESTION FOR STAFF, WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEPS WE NEED TO DO, LIKE A SUBCOMMITTEE TO FINALIZE WHAT THESE QUALIFICATIONS ARE, UH, WITH THE CORE CITY STAFF? UM, MAYBE GET SOME OF OUR BOARD MEMBERS. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU TUNNELS, YOU HAVE PLUMBERS, YOU HAVE, I THINK ELECTRIC ELECTRICIANS PROBABLY ON THE ELECTRICAL SIDE, PROBABLY HAVE PEOPLE THAT RUN STUFF IN TUNNELS ALSO. UM, WHAT WE WANNA SEE, UH, DO WE NEED A, OR IS THIS SOMETHING WHERE WE JUST KIND OF MAKE A, A RECOMMENDATION AND THEN NOW STAFF GOES AND DOES SOME RESEARCH AND THEN THEY PRESENT SOMETHING BACK TO US, AND THEN WE DO THAT? HOW DO WE, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS FOR MOVING FORWARD HERE? YEAH. WELL, AND THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. UH, CHAIRMAN, I, I KNOW WE HAVEN'T UTILIZED THIS PROVISION OF, UH, THE, THE, OTHER THAN SUBCOMMITTEES AND HEARING APPEALS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO THIS IS KIND OF NEW. UH, I THINK IT'S REALLY UP TO YOU ALL. UH, UH, I THINK IF, IF YOU ALL FELT THAT, THAT YOU'D, LIKE SOMEONE WANTED A MOTION FOR A RECOMMENDATION SAYING, [01:55:01] I THINK THE RECOMMENDATION BACK TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL SHOULD BE X AND YOU VOTE ON IT. AND THAT WOULD BE THE BOARD'S RECOMMENDATION. IF YOU FELT THAT THERE SHOULD BE MORE DISCUSSION, UM, AND MORE RESEARCH DONE, YOU COULD GIVE THAT TO, TO ME AS WELL, IF YOU FELT THERE WAS A SUBCOMMITTEE, UH, THAT WOULD BE BEST TO HANDLE THIS. WE'VE CREATED SOME SUBCOMMITTEES TODAY, IF YOU WANTED ANOTHER SUBCOMMITTEE. I THINK IT'S FAIRLY WIDE OPEN FOR YOU ALL. UM, SO, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ONE WAY YOU HAVE TO DO IT, UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S NOT AN ACTION THAT YOU'RE APPROVING OR DENYING TODAY, BUT IT'S, IT'S HOW YOU, YOU KNOW, I, I'M ASKING FOR YOU FOR A RECOMMENDATION IF YOU'RE READ THE, UM, MAYBE SOME NEXT STEPS THAT THE COMMITTEE COULD COME UP WITH, THAT THE BOARD COULD COME UP WITH. BUT, SO I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION, BUT IT'S, IT IS A LITTLE, THERE'S A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR YOU, UM, TO MOVE FORWARD. AND, AND YOU'RE RIGHT. I KNOW WE HAVE ANOTHER ITEM, BUT, UH, BUT THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT ONE FOR, FOR, FOR US, FOR ME, AND FOR MR. STRICKER AND, AND REALLY OUR, OUR COMMUNITY. SO I AGREE, IT'S AN IMPORTANT ITEM. IT'S NICE TO KNOW WE HAVE, UH, DIFFERENT OPTIONS. SO AT THIS POINT, UH, LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANY BOARD MEMBERS WITH A MOTION. AS, AS YOU HEARD, WE CAN MAKE A, A RECOMMENDATION TO ADD THE CITY OFFICIALS, BRING SOMETHING TO US TO APPROVE OR JUST FORM A OR WE CAN DO A, A MOTION TO DO A SUBCOMMITTEE, UH, TO LOOK INTO THIS FURTHER. AND THEN, UH, THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS BE BROUGHT TO THE BOARD AS A WHOLE. UM, MR. CHAIR, THIS IS, UH, MIKE RU. CAN I, I DON'T HAVE A MOTION OF, OF MAYBE A RECOMMENDATION. WHAT IF WE, UH, SIGN THIS TO THE PLUMBING SUBCOMMITTEE THAT WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISHED AS AN ITEM TO CONSIDER IN ADDITION TO THE REVIEWING THE, THE CODE CHANGES. JUST A THOUGHT. I LIKE THAT RECOMMENDATION. SECOND, I SECOND THAT MOTION. UM, THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICE. THIS IS A, UH, NON ACTIONABLE AGENDA ITEM. SO, UH, THERE'S, UH, NO ABILITY TO MAKE A MOTION OR VOTE ON THIS ITEM. OH, OKAY. SO, UH, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'LL GO TO THE, UH, HOW THE PLUMBING SUBCOMMITTEE LOOK AT IT, UM, SINCE IT DOES INVOLVE TUNNELS. I WAS WONDERING JUST THE, THE ELECTRICAL COMMITTEE NEED TO LOOK THIS AS WELL, , IS THE ELECTRICAL S GET INVOLVED IN THIS, OR IS IT MAINLY THE, I I THINK IT'S . OKAY. UM, UH, THIS IS JEREMY MCDONALD, UH, SPOKE WITH, UH, OUR ATTORNEY. AND YES. SO, UH, THIS IS CLOSE ENOUGH REGARDING KIND OF WHAT THE INTENT OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE FOR THE I P C AND FUEL GAS CODE. UH, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE THAT THIS DISCUSSION BE PICKED UP BY THAT GROUP. UM, AND THEY COULD PROVIDE US SOME, UH, E EITHER VOTE ON SOMETHING OR PROVIDE SOME FEEDBACK, AND THAT COULD BE PAID TO THE FULL BOARD FOR CONSIDERATION. OKAY. THAT SOUNDS GOOD. THEN. UM, SO FAR THAT'S WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE RECOMMENDATION IS. SO THEN, UH, GO AHEAD AND ADD THAT TO THE LIST FOR THE 2021 IPC SLASH UH, BILL GAS CODE SUBCOMMITTEE TO LOOK INTO, UH, TO, TO SEE WHAT, HOW THEY WANNA MOVE FORWARD AND WHAT KIND OF RECOMMENDATIONS THEY COME UP WITH. I BELIEVE WE'RE DONE WITH THAT AGENDA ITEM. AND WE CAN [5. Vote on an appeal submitted by Otto Thompson Harrison, Thompson Harrison Plumbing related to the revocation of his company’s registration with the City of San Antonio.] GO TO ITEM NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS BOTH ON AN APPEAL SUBMITTED BY OTTO THOMPSON, HARRISON, UH, THOMPSON HARRISON PLUMBING RELATED TO THE RELOCATION OF THIS COMPANY'S REGISTRATION WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UH, PLEASE GIVE US A MINUTE TO, UH, BRING MR. HARRISON ON THE LINE FOR THIS MEETING. UH, FOR THIS AGENDA ITEM, I WANNA TAKE THIS TIME TO LET MR. EDMORE KNOW HOW, UH, JACK MAY HAVE TO FINISH OFF THE MEETING BECAUSE, UH, MY PHONE PERCENTAGE IS GOING DOWN. SO, YEAH, I JUST FINISHED CHARGING MINE UP, SO I GOT A FRESH 60, SO JUST LET ME KNOW IF I NEED TO DO THAT. OKAY. I PUT IT ON THE WIRELESS CHARGER, BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE KEEPING UP. . THIS IS BEEN A, THE VIDEO IS WHAT, PAIR IT UP. YEAH, THIS LITTLE BREAK ALLOWS BRIAN SMITH TO GO GET SOME MORE WATER. , THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS OF VIRTUAL MEETINGS FOUR TIMES. ROBERT , UH, THIS IS, UH, CHAIRMAN MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UM, UH, KIND OF A BIG ITEM. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS ARE STILL STREAMING THEIR VIDEO. IT IS REQUIREMENT FOR US TO HAVE BOTH VIDEO AND AUDIO FOR EACH OF THE BOARD MEMBERS TO DEPARTMENT FORUM. YES. MAKE SURE EVERYBODY HAS YOUR VIDEO ON. [02:00:02] ALRIGHT. UM, I BELIEVE WE HAVE MR. HARRISON ONLINE. LET ME, UH, I'M GONNA CONFIRM THAT REAL QUICK. GARCIA, IS IT THE PROCESS, USUALLY STAFF AND THEN THE APPLICANT? YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT. BUT WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HEAR PART OF THE, UH, THE FULL PROCESS OF THE ENGINE ITEM. YEAH. OKAY. THIS IS, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, AND WE HAVE CONFIRMED THAT MR. HARRISON IS ONLINE AND HOPE TO HEAR US. UH, DURING THIS PRESENTATION, THE CITY WILL BE IN OUR, UH, PORTION OF THE STATION AGENDA. ITEM NUMBER FIVE IS APPEAL TO THE COURT FOR A REVOCATION OF MR. HARRISONS ONLY ADMINISTRATION WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UH, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS THE, UH, FUEL DOCUMENTATION , DOCUMENTED . THESE ARE THE, UH, OR MR. HARRISON. SO, MR. HARRIS, UH, HIS APPEAL IS BASED OFF OF DECISION TO REVOKE MR. HARRISON'S PLUMBING REGISTRATION WITH D S E. THE, UH, CANCELLATION LETTER WAS ISSUED ON APRIL 7TH, 2020. THIS IS IN REGARDS TO VIOLATIONS OF THE FOLLOWING PROPERTY, 6 38 AVON 3 43 ESTORIA, 1 0 0 7 WEST MAGNOLIA 14 19 6 38, ON MAY 21ST, 2019, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OBSERVED PLUMBING WORK BEING PERFORMED WITH NO PERMIT AND BY UNLICENSED WORKERS. LATER ON MAY 21ST, 2019, MR. HARRISON APPLIED FOR A PLUMBING PERMIT, UH, BUT IT WAS NOT ISSUED. SO ALL HE HAD AT, AT THIS POINT WAS AN APPLICATION IN FOR THAT PERMIT, UH, WHICH GOT THAT PROCESS STARTED. UH, BUT BECAUSE IT WASN'T APPROVED AND PAID FOR, IT WAS NOT OFFICIALLY ISSUED AS, AS PERMIT TO ALLOW TO WORK. ON MAY 22ND, 2019. DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OBSERVED, OBSERVED THAT THE PLUMBING HAD CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS DAY. BASED ON THIS INFORMATION, UH, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ISSUED A EXTENSION OF 30 DAYS, UH, TO MR. HARRISON FOR WORKING WITHOUT PERMITS AND FOR PERFORMING WORK WITH UNLICENSED WORKERS. THIS IS THE LETTER THAT WAS ISSUED TO MR. HARRISON, NOTIFYING HIM OF THAT 30, 30 DAYS EXTENSION, STARTING MAY 24TH, 2019, ENDING IN JUNE 24TH, 2019 OF HIS REGISTRATION WITH THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. MR. HARRISON APPEAL TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. SO THIS WAS NOT A FORMAL APPEAL TO THE, TO THIS BOARD, BUT A DIRECT APPEAL TO THE BOARD, UH, TO THE BUILDING OFFICIAL. UH, THEY MET WITH THE BUILDING OFFICIAL ON JUNE 6TH, MAY 19, TO DISCUSS THE 30 DAY EXTENSION. UH, MR. HARRISON AGREED TO ABIDE BY ALL RULES SET BY THE TEXAS STATE BOARD, UH, PLUMBING EXAMINERS AND TO D S D IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, MR. HARRISON WAS INFORMED THAT, UH, WE WOULD BE MONITORING HIS WORK OVER THE NEXT YEAR TO ENSURE COMPLIANT. UH, AND BASED OFF OF THAT, MR. HARRISON'S REGISTRATION WAS RENEWED ON JUNE 6TH, 2019. UH, SO PART OF THAT CONVERSATION WAS KIND OF A, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA BE FOLLOWING YOU. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE MEETING ALL THE RULES, BOTH ON POLLING PERMITS, HAVING LICENSED INDIVIDUALS COMPLETING INSPECTIONS, NOT COVERING UP ANYTHING, UH, BEFORE WE HAVE A CHANCE TO INSPECT IT. UH, AND WE WOULD BE TRACKING THAT AND ALLOWING FOR, UH, UP TO THREE VIOLATIONS. UH, BUT THE INTENT BEING THAT, UH, WE WOULD CANCEL HIS REGISTRATION IF HE HAS MORE THAN, UH, TWO VIOLATIONS ON THE NEXT YEAR. SO THIS IS THE READ THE LETTER SENT TO, UH, MR. MR. HARRISON FOLLOWING, UH, THE MEETING ON JUNE 6TH, UH, NOTIFYING HIM THAT HIS REGISTRATION HAD BEEN RENEWED. THE NEXT PROPERTY WAS 3 43 ESTORIA. THIS IS ON JUNE 27TH, 2019. DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OBSERVED FORMING WORK BEING PERFORM WITH NO OPEN PERMIT. THE OWNER INFORMED DEVELOPMENT SERVICES THAT MR. [02:05:01] HARRISON WAS HIRED TO COMPLETE THE PLUMBING WORK. UH, SO THIS WAS DIRECT CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY, UH, WITH DEVELOPMENT SERVICES CONFIRMING THAT IT WAS MR. HARRISON CONTRACT TO COMPLETE THAT WORK, UH, THAT WE NOTICED THAT WE OBSERVED BEING DONE WITHOUT PERMIT. UH, BASED OFF OF THAT, DEVELOPMENT SERVICES ISSUED A NOTICE OF VIOLATION TO MR. HARRISON, UH, FOR PERFORMING WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT. THIS IS THE LETTER THAT WAS ISSUED AT THAT TIME, UH, DOCUMENTING THAT VIOLATION OF WAS WITHOUT PERMIT AT 3 43 AS FORIA AT 1 0 0 7 WEST MAGNOLIA. SO THIS PROPERTY WAS ORIGINALLY, UH, BEING INVESTIGATED FOR WORK BEING DONE WITHOUT PERMITS. UH, THIS WAS PRIOR TO MR. HARRISON BEING INVOLVED WITH THE PROJECT. OUR INVESTIGATION TEAM HAD GONE OUT THERE, UH, SAW A HOUSE ON THE MARKET THAT WAS GETTING READY TO SELL, THAT HAD SUBSTANTIAL WORK COMPLETED, UH, WITH ZERO INSPECTIONS AND ZERO PERMITS FOR, UH, BASED OFF OF THAT, WE WERE DOING AN INVESTIGATION ON ALL THE CONTRACTORS INVOLVED. UM, AS PART OF THAT, WE WORKED WITH THE OWNER FOR THEM TO HIRE NEW CONTRACTORS, UH, TO COMPLETE THE WORK. UH, MR. HARRISON'S, UH, WAS A HIRED CONTRACTOR TO COMPLETE THE PLUMBING WORK, UH, PULL A PERMIT, UH, GO BACK ON ALL THE, ALL THE ITEMS THAT WERE COMPLETED WITHOUT A PERMIT AND WERE COVERED UP, OPEN UP WHAT WAS NEEDED TO BE. SO WE PERFORM ADEQUATE INSPECTION TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING WAS UP TO CODE AND COMPLETED PROPERLY. AS PART OF THAT PROCESS, WHAT WE DO IS WE SIT DOWN WITH THESE, EACH OF THESE CONTRACTORS THAT COME IN AND, AND PULL THE COMPLETION PERMIT AND LET THEM UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT WORK WAS DONE WITHOUT PERMIT. SOME OF IT WAS COVERED UP THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK, UM, OPEN UP WALLS OR WHATEVER WAS NEEDED TO ALLOW US TO HAVE ACCESS TO AREAS THAT NEEDED TO BE INSPECTED. THIS IS FOR ALL TRADE, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH THE HOUSE. UM, SO THEY'RE FULLY AWARE OF, OF KIND OF WHAT THE COMMITMENT IS FROM TAKING ON THIS, UH, THIS PERMIT. AND THAT WHEN THEY PULL THE PERMIT FOR THAT WORK THAT WAS DONE WITHOUT, UH, PERMIT ORIGINALLY, THEY'RE KIND OF TAKING ON THAT RESPONSIBILITY THAT THEY WILL, UM, GO THROUGH REPAIR ANYTHING THAT ISN'T UP TO CODE, BRING IT UP TO CODE, LEAVE THEIR INSPECTIONS, UM, AND CLOSE OUT THE PERMIT. SO THIS WAS ALL IN APRIL 19TH, 2019. UM, WE DID PERFORM AN INSPECTION ROUGH IN A TOPPED OUT, AND A FINAL, UH, AFTER THE PERMIT WAS PULLED ON THE 19TH, UH, BASED OFF THAT 22ND INSPECTION, UH, WE FOUND THAT NONE OF THE MEETING OF CODE, SO, UH, THE PERMIT HOLDER, MR. HARRISON WOULD'VE TO GO BACK AND CORRECT ALL THESE ITEMS IN ORDER TO CLOSE OUT THAT PERMIT, BRING THE CODE OF, UH, THE HOUSE UP TO CODE. NO OTHER INSPECTIONS WERE SCHEDULED. UH, THE HOME WAS SO TIRED OF ISSUING BEING, UH, ALL THE ISSUES BEING FIXED. SO, UM, AFTER THAT INSPECTION ON THE 22ND OF APRIL, UH, WE WERE NEVER CALLED BACK OUT. UH, THE HOUSE WAS MOVED ONTO ANOTHER, UH, HOMEOWNER. THAT HOMEOWNER ACTUALLY REACHED OUT IT US BECAUSE THEY DID SOME RESEARCH AND SAW THAT THEY BOUGHT A HOUSE THAT OPENED PERMITS ON IT. UM, AND THAT'S WHEN WE GOT REENGAGED ON THIS ONE. UH, WE STOPPED ALL THE CONTRACTORS, INCLUDING MR. HARRISON TO FIND OUT, UM, YOU KNOW, WHY THEY DIDN'T CLOSE OUT THEIR PERMITS AND DO EVERYTHING THAT WAS INSTRUCTED TO THEM WHEN THEY BROUGHT ON OR TOOK UPON THE COMPLETION PERMIT INITIALLY BACK IN APRIL OF 2019. UH, SO ON MARCH 31ST, WE REACHED OUT TO MR. HARRISON FOR AN UPDATE ON THE OPEN PLUMBING PERMIT. UM, AND PAST THIS WAS, SO ON OUR CONVERSATION WITH HIM, UM, HE WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE ONLY THING LEFT WAS THE FINAL FROM THE INSPECTION A YEAR BEFORE, UM, WAS, UH, NOT COMPLETE UP THE, UP TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF THAT PROJECT AND HOW IT HAD LAST AND A NEW OWNER HAD ACTUALLY TAKEN OVER. UM, SO MR. HARRISON DOES, UH, IN VIOLATION FOR FAILURE TO PLEAD ALL INSPECTION AND CLOSED THE PERMIT AT 1419 MONT ON OCTOBER 28TH, 2019, UH, MR. HARRISON PLUMBING PERMIT, UH, FOR WORK TO BE DONE IN THIS RESIDENCE ON APRIL 3RD, 2020. DEVELOPMENT SERVICES OBSERVED UNLICENSED WORKERS PERFORMED PLUMBING WORK ON AREAS PREVIOUSLY INSPECTED AND APPROVED. THE WORKERS INFORMED THE INSPECTOR THAT THEY WORKED, OR MR. HARRISON HAD CALLED HIM UP. THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR CONFIRMED THAT THE WORKERS WERE WORKING FOR HIM. UH, FOR MR. HARRISON, THIS IS AN EMAIL WE RECEIVED FROM A GENERAL CONTRACTOR. UM, THE CASES OF IT IS, UH, TO INFORM US THAT THE TWO GENTLEMEN, UH, STANFORD AND ALBERT, UH, REFERENCED IN THIS EMAIL FOR THE TWO WORKERS THAT WERE ON SITE, UH, PERFORMING WORK, THEY WERE DOING WORK FOR THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR MOVING THE, UH, PLUMBING WALL FOR AN ISLAND. BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, THEY WERE ALSO DOING WORK, UH, MR. HARRISON, UH, MOVING THE EXISTING PLUMBING OVER ONE FOOT. UH, SO THE UNLICENSED, UH, CONTRACTOR WORKING UNDER MR. HARRIS' PERMIT, UM, OF THE PLUMBING PERMIT FOR THIS. ON APRIL 7TH, 2020, MR. [02:10:01] HARRISON WAS NOTIFIED OF VIOLATION FOR WORKING, FOR WORKING, PERFORMED BY UNLICENSED WORKERS UNDER HIS PERMIT ON, UH, BASED ON THESE, UH, VIOLATIONS ON APRIL 7TH, 2020, DEVELOPMENT SERVICE ISSUE OF LETTER REVOKING MR. HARRISON'S REGISTRATION WITH HIS OWN AND SERVICES BASED ON MULTIPLE VIOLATIONS, INCLUDING WORK WITHOUT PERMITS, WORK, PERFORM BYTED WORKERS TO FAILURE TO COMPLETE INSPECTION. THIS IS THE LETTER THAT WAS ISSUED TO MR. HARRISON. THAT CONCLUDES, UH, THE SERVICES PRESENTATION ON THE APPEAL. UH, OPEN TO ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD. UH, THIS IS, UH, THIS IS MIKE CRYSTAL. I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED MAYBE ON THE TIMELINE. IT SEEMED LIKE THE VERY FIRST HOUSE THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, UM, WAS IN MAY AND HE DIDN'T HAVE IN MAY OF 2019, AND HE DIDN'T HAVE, UH, REGISTRATION. BUT THEN WHEN WE GOT TO MAGNOLIA, WE WERE IN APRIL. AM I, DID I MISHEAR THAT? CORRECT. SO THIS WAS, UH, MAY, 2019 WAS THE FIRST REGISTRATION. UH, THIS WAS THE FIRST PROPERTY THAT WE FOUND, UH, MR. HARRISON IN VIOLATION FOR THAT INITIAL, THAT INITIATED AN INITIAL 30 DAY SUSPENSION LETTER, UM, THE MAGNOLIA HOUSE, THE, UH, SO SOME OF THE DATES OF THE MAGNOLIA HOUSE. UM, SO HE KIND OF, PRIOR TO THAT, UM, HE HAD TAKEN ON THIS PROPERTY BACK IN 2019. SO WHAT HAPPENED WAS, UM, HE NEVER FINISHED IT. SO HE BEGAN, IT WAS KIND OF A VIOLATION BY NOT FINISHING THOSE. WE, EVEN THOUGH HE TOOK ON THE INITIAL, UH, PERMIT AND PULLED THAT BACK IN APRIL 19TH, 2019, ABOUT THE SAME TIMEFRAME THAT WE WERE SUSPENDING HIM, UH, FOR THE OTHER PROPERTY, UM, HE WAS IN VIOLATION BECAUSE HE NEVER COMPLETED THAT PERMIT. IN 180 DAY, UH, WINDOW THAT IS ALLOWED FOR A PERMIT ARE REQUESTING AN EXTENSION, UH, WHICH RESULTED IN SOMEBODY BUYING THAT HOUSE WITH OPEN PERMIT AND UN UH, CO COMPLIANT SYSTEM, SUCH AS THE PLUMBING SYSTEM BE NONCOMPLIANT. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER BOARD QUESTIONS FOR STAFF AT THIS TIME? LOOKS LIKE THERE AREN'T, SO AT THIS POINT WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT. ONE SECOND. THE, UH, LINE, MR. HARRISON, ARE YOU THERE? MR. HARRISON? ONE, GO. UH, IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAD LOST MR. HARRISON DURING COURT PRESENTATION. WE'RE TRYING TO REACH BACK OUT TO HIM. MR. HARRISON IN LINE? OH, NO. UH, MR. HARRISON? YES, GO AHEAD. THIS, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, UH, YOU ARE ONLINE, UH, WITH THE, UH, BOARD TO HEAR YOUR APPEAL? OH, YES, SIR. I'M, I'M GLAD YOU GET ME BACK LIKE I'VE BEEN SITTING HERE. BUT ANYWAY, UM, I NEED TO START OUT, UH, LIKE ANY GOOD BOOK YOU HAVE INTRODUCTION. MY NAME IS OTTO M TOM HARRISON. WHERE'S, UH, THAT'S MY FULL NAME. AND I GO BY, UH, OTTO AND I, I'M NOT SURE IF I'M YES, SIR, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU. YEAH, SIR. OKAY. GOOD LUCK. WE [02:15:01] HAVE THE TECHNICAL STUFF. ANYWAY, UH, I I'M JUST TELLING YOU MY NAME MIGHT BE, MIGHT BE WATCHING, WATCHING HARRISON, IF YOU COULD, UH, MUTE YOUR, YOUR TV THERE IS A DELAY. UH, SO YOU'LL HAVE TO, UH, YOU'LL SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THE BOARD, UH, THE, THE AUDIO FROM TV 32ND DELAY. OKAY. I THINK WE GOT A DELAY. I'M GONNA MUTE, I'M GONNA MUTE IT. OKAY. LAST, CAN YOU HEAR ME? ? YES, SIR. WE CAN'T HEAR YOU. UH, WELL FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS. THAT'S GOOD THING. OKAY. I, I'M, I'M MUTE. I WAS JUST, I WAS JUST, UH, IDENTIFYING WHO I AM, YOU KNOW, WHERE TO THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT'S, AND I, UH, RESIDE IN SAN ANTONIO. THAT'S WHERE I'M FOLLOWING INSTRUCTION THERE. I DRIVING TO SAN ANTONIO ON THE EAST SIDE OF SAN ANTONIO, AND I HAVE A BUSINESS, UH, CALLED THOMPSON HARRISON, WHICH IS BOIL DOWN ME BEING ME. OKAY. FOR 50 YEARS. IT COULDN'T, IT WAS THAT, UH, PROPERTY COMPANY THAT I OWN THAT. OKAY. NOW, UH, WHAT DO I I, I LOOKED AT IT, I'M JUST LISTENING TO SOME OF THIS. UM, THEY HAD, UM, WHY I AM GETTING A, SOMETHING THAT I'M JUST NOT GETTING ONLINE ON YOUR SCREEN, UH, MAKING REFERENCE, UH, TO SOME JOBS THAT, UH, THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE BY ME. AND AT THIS POINT, I'M AT A DISADVANTAGE. AND THE DVANTAGE IS THIS, UM, I DON'T HAVE RECORDS OF MAGNOLIA STREET. IS THAT THE CONTRACTS WITH ME OR WHEN THEY SIGNED IT, THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE CONTRACT FOR DEPOSIT. SO I DON'T DO ANYTHING ON A JOB UNTIL A CONTRACT IS SIGNED UNDER THE ROOF. OKAY? I'M MAGNOLIA. OKAY. SO I DON'T HAVE ANY RESPONSE TO THAT, THAT WE DIDN'T DO NOTHING. THEY DIDN'T SAY. AND I FOUND OUT THE HOUSE WAS SOLD LATER. AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE ON MAGNOLIA. YOU KNOW WHERE I'M AT A DISADVANTAGE ON THAT AND I SCREW YOU. UH, THEY ASKED ME TO DO A JOB, BUT IT, ITS, IT'S, ITS KIND OF UNIQUE AT THIS ONE. EVERY JOB THEY, UM, HONORED ME, ME ON THAT. UM, I DON'T HAVE CONTACT WITH OR, AND NO, THE MAJOR THING, I DON'T HAVE AN EMPLOYEES. THEY SAY I HAVE NOW, I WOULD LIKE A FEW EMPLOYEES. UH, I THINK WHEN I GO DOWN AND HIRE SOMEBODY, I DON'T HIRE PEOPLE THAT CAN'T DO THE JOB. THAT'S MY POINT. UH, I, I HAVE TO LET THE BOARD KNOW AT THIS POINT THAT THIS IS THOMPSON. HARRISON PLUMBING SERVICES IS ON THE EAST SIDE. IT'S A BLACK OWNED COMPANY, . AND IT IS, UH, BEEN IN EXISTENCE HERE IN SAN ANTONIO FOR 50 YEARS. AND ON, UH, IT IS LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE, AND IT'S BEEN AS PART OF THE FIVE BLACK COMPANIES THAT'S HERE IN THE CITY. I'M GOING TO DIVIDE, YOU SEE, AND I'M ALSO THE LARGEST. SO, UM, UH, IT'S NOW UNCOMMON BECAUSE, UH, THIS, UH, WELL, THE INSPECTORS RUNNING UP ON IT OVER THE YEARS. AND, UH, KIDS WOULDN'T UNCOMMON. I'VE DONE CHURCHES, BUSINESSES, BANKS, SOME KIND OF BUSINESS. COME ON THAT EAST SIDE NIGHTCLUB HOMES, UH, WORKED FOR FORT SAM. SO I FINISHED COLLEGE ON ST. ST. UNIVERSITY OF, I MADE A LAKE UNIVERSITY ON THE SIDE. I'M GOING TO OTHER WORDS, AND I ALSO ACED THE TEST UP THERE. BUT MY POINT HERE IS MY POINT. SO IF YOU SEE A, UH, CONTRACTOR AND THEY THAT SOME LICENSE, THEY SAID, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THE FIRST THING, I'M, ARE YOU TRYING TO DO SOMETHING WORK OR I WORK FOR OTTO? WELL, THAT'S NOT TRUE. AND THE REASON, WHAT MAKES THAT NOT TRUE? HERE'S MY POINT. THAT THERE'S ONLY FIVE BLACK CONTRACTORS HERE IN . BEEN LIKE THAT FOR 50 YEARS, [02:20:01] OKAY? THE INSPECTORS BEFORE THAT, THEY KNOW ALL THE, UH, THESE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO'VE BEEN STOPPED ON THESE JOBS, HAVE BEEN ALL BLACK MEN, OKAY? AND SO IF YOU WALK UP ON 'EM, THE FIRST THING THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT IS NOT JUST THE NATURE, UH, YOU KNOW, WORDS. THEY WORKING OR WE WORKED FOR OTTO. WELL, I ALREADY, YOU KNOW, 50 YEARS I'M GOING TO , YOU KNOW? AND GUESS WHAT ELSE? THE PLUMBING INSPECTORS KNOW IF THEY ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE, IF WHO ARE BLOCKED ARE NOT LICENSED BECAUSE THEY WAS FEW. THAT'S THE POINT. AND BY ME TEACHING SCHOOL AND WORKING FOR ALL THESE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE EAST SIDE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS NOT UNCOMMON. YOU KNOW, MY NAME POP UP ALL THE TIME, YOU SEE? SO AT THE SAME TIME, SO I'M AT A DISAPPOINTED, UH, WHILE THEY, UH, I GET LETTER IN THE PACKAGE THAT MULTIPLE CHARGES, BUT I DON'T NEVER, I NEVER SEEN THE LETTERS, NEVER. I SEEN THOSE LETTERS AND WHICH I KNOW WHO YOU SUPPOSED TO PULL IN THIS, YOU OTHER WORDS. BUT I DON'T DO ANYTHING ON THE JOB, IN OTHER WORDS, UNTIL THEY'VE SIGNED A CONTRACT. NOW, THAT'S ANOTHER POINT. THEY SAY, WE WORKING OUT THERE ON THE JOB, YOU KNOW, WORDS AND YOU GOT EMPLOYEES WAY. WHAT IS THE CONTRACT WITH IT? WITH ME? THAT'S THE FACT. IF YOU DON'T, IF, THEN THAT'S MY FACT. YOU KNOW? WHEREAS IF JUST BECAUSE YOU SEE THE GUYS, THEY SAY, GUYS, YOU KNOW, WHEREAS IF YOU SEE BLACK MEN WORKING OUT THERE, STOP 'EM AND GET THEIR ID AND FORWARD IT TO ME, AND THEY COME SEARCH MY , SO I KNOW, YOU KNOW, UH, THEY DON'T WORK FOR ME. I WENT DOWNTOWN AT . OKAY? I'M MAKING SURE I WENT AND ARGUED AND LET THOSE INSPECTORS KNOW OF THE YOUNG ONES, NOT THE OLD ONES. LOOK, Y'ALL HAVE ISSUED ME A VIOLATION THAT DON'T AFFECT ME. AND SO WHY? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT MY EMPLOYEES. AND GUESS WHAT I GOT? YES, THEY ARE. AND HE SAID THEY SAID, NO. I SAID, WELL, GIMME, WE CAN WRAP WITH THAT IN COURT. AND I FILED, AND THAT MR. SHANNON, I'M GLAD MR. SHANNON IS THERE BECAUSE TO GET TO HIS OFFICE IS WHAT I HAD TO DO. WHEN THEY TURNED ME WITH A NO, I WENT OVER TO THE CITY COUNCIL, TALKED TO THE CITY MANAGER, AND GOT AN APPOINTMENT WITH MR. SHANNON. AND I WENT TO A LAWSUIT, AND THE DEAL WAS VERY SIMPLE. DROP YOUR LAWSUIT OUT. I SAID, YES. I SAID, NOW PUT ME BACK TO WORK, MR. SHANNON. HE SAID, OKAY. HE SAID, BUT WE GOING TO YOU, WE GOING TO CLOSE THIS ONE ON A BANK. NOW LISTEN TO WHAT THE DEAL IS. AND I SAID, LEAVE, DON'T HARASS ME OF MY, OF, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, RETALIATE ME BECAUSE I WANT OVER YOUR HEAD. YOU KNOW WHERE, BECAUSE ALL I WANT TO DO IS GO TO WORK. YOU KNOW, WORDS AND I KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU NOT TALKING TO SOMEBODY THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE. YOU KNOW, WORDS. AND I SAID, WELL, JUST DON'T DO NO RETALIATION ON ME NOW. AND SURE ENOUGH, I GET THIS MAGNOLIA STREET LETTER, UM, THE DAY IN A PACKAGE AND ASTORIA, IN OTHER WORDS. AND JUDGE, UH, CARMEN, KELSEY SAID THEY TRIED, THEY BEST TO GET ME TO SAY THAT, THAT, UH, YOU WERE WORKING OUT THERE. AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, I'M IN A WHEELCHAIR, YOU KNOW, I SAID, HOW THEY GOING TO PROVE I'M OUT THERE? I SAID, WE WERE WORKING OUT THERE. HE SAID, WE WERE WORKING OUT THERE, BUT, AND I TOLD HIM, WE SAID, WENT ON AND PAID A FINE. SO LET'S GET TO THE POINT HERE. I'M SAYING, I, I READ THIS WHOLE PACK AND I'M GOING TO SAVE Y'ALL A LOT OF TIME AND TROUBLE. BUT HERE THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS. EITHER I HAVE AN EMPLOYEE OR I DON'T. THAT'S NUMBER ONE. AND I'M SAYING DOUBT TO GO TO THE CONTRACTOR. I DON'T. AND NUMBER TWO, ARE YOU [02:25:01] PROFILING RACIAL PROFILING ME? BECAUSE EVERY TIME THERE'S ONLY ONE INSPECTOR, IF YOU HAD A MULTIPLE INSPECTORS LOOKING AT THE JOB, THEY AIN'T TALKING ABOUT A PLUMBING JOB. THEY TALKING ABOUT GUYS OUT THERE WORKING WITHOUT HER AND OUT SOME PLUMBING OUT OF A OLD HOUSE, THAT RULE THAT Y'ALL USE OF ORDINANCE, THEY IN VIOLATION, THEY TOUCHED THE, FROM THEY IN VIOLATION. YOU SEE, IT'S SMALL THAN IT IS. IT LOOKED LIKE WHEN THEY REVOKED MY HOUSE AND IT LOOKED LIKE I ROBBED A BANK OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, WHERE, AND I, I SAID, WHERE'S THE PRINT? AND I DON'T LIKE TO SEE THE TRUTH, AND LET'S GO WITH THE FACTS. YOU OTHER WORDS, YOU GOT A LICENSE FROM 'EM? I SAID, WE CAN WRITE REPORT, GIMME A PHONE. BUT I CAN SHOW THEM AND THEY WERE BEHIND FOR. AND THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU SEEN TO WORK FOR ME, I MADE SURE THAT I LOCATED THEM. YOU KNOW? WHEREAS THEY DON'T WORK FOR ME, WORK FOR ME IN THE PAST. THEY DON'T WORK FOR ME NOW, AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA WORK FOR ME IN THE FUTURE. YOU KNOW WHY? THEY DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT PLUMBING AND AIN'T GONNA TRY COMPANIES HERE. THEY DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT PLUMBING. AND THAT'S THE CRAZIEST THING ABOUT IT. YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE A PLUMBER, BUT THE ORDINANCE TELLS YOU THAT YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BE THE SMALLEST THING. AND THAT THAT'S THE WAY THAT THEY PUT A HANDCUFF ON YOU AND, AND PUT YOU ON SUSPENSION BEFORE I EVEN GET TO COURT. I'M ALREADY A GUILTY. YOU DIDN'T, YOU KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN ON SUSPENSION FOR ALMOST THREE MONTHS, AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TELL HIM IT IS NOT ME, UNIVERSE. AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. AND WE GOING SAY, NO, I JUST WANTED PROOF. LET'S GET THIS THING TO HEAD YOU. OTHER WORDS, WE HAVE THE, THE WITNESSES AND, AND TALKING ABOUT, I DIDN'T HAVE A PERMIT ON A JOB, BUT EVERY TIME I LOOKED DOWN ON THE RECORDS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A PERMIT. IT WASN'T ISSUED UNTIL LATER. YOU KNOW WHY YOU WOULDN'T ISSUE TILL LATER? I CAN TELL YOU ONE GOOD REASON BECAUSE THEY DID NOT PAY DOWN MY CONTRACT. AND I WENT INTO BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, WITH A FINANCIAL INVESTMENT, RICH, THAT MEANS I MAY NOT MAKE MY MONEY. I TOOK A RISK TO GO INTO BUSINESS. IN OTHER WORDS, AND I'M ENTITLED TO A PROFIT. SO I'M NOT GONNA BE OUT THERE WORKING IN NO CONTRACT. AND PEOPLE, I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY SAY, YOU, I DON'T WORK FREE. IN OTHER WORDS. AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. AND YOU KNOW, SO THIS, AND THEY HAD OTHER ALTERNATIVES. I'M NOW SAYING THESE LETTERS ON YOUR SCREENING. I NEVER GOT THOSE SCREENS. AND MR. SHANNON PUT THE, UH, DID TALK TO ME. I GOT THE CITY MANAGER DO THAT. AND WE HAD HER AGREEMENT. AND THAT'S TRUE YOU WORDS. AND IN A YEAR'S TIME, THEY GIVE UP FOUR CASES THAT I DIDN'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. I'M TELLING THEM A DECADE. OTHER WORDS, BUT THAT'S DISADVANTAGE. HAVE YOU HAVE T GOT ON THAT JOB? I DON'T EVEN KNOW. PEOPLE DIDN'T PAY ME. THEY DON'T HAVE NO CONTRACT. AND SO, BUT ANYWAY, I'M NOT GONNA KEEP DRAGGING THIS ON AND ON SO Y'ALL CAN HAVE IT. UH, I'M GONNA GET TO THE POINT. THERE IS NO, THERE IS NO BLACK CONTRACTORS. YES. BUT THESE GUYS, THEIR IDENTIFICATION, THEIR VEHICLE THAT WORKS FOR OTTO THOMPSON PLUMBING, NOW THE ONLY BLACK GERMAN PLUMBING PLUMBERS KEY IN THE CITY IS FOR, AND GUESS WHO THEY WORK FOR? OTTO. AND THAT'S IT. ALL FOUR OF 'EM WORKS FOR ME. YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S A FACT. THAT'S SHOWS FACT. THE REST OF 'EM DON'T. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY CAN TELL YOU. ALLEGATIONS DON'T STAND UP NOWHERE. WE DEAL WITH THE FACTS. LET'S DEAL WITH THE FACTS. DON'T TELL ME WHAT SOMEBODY TELLS YOU. GIVE ME THE FACTS. AND THEN THAT'S THE CLOSING THING. AND ON TOP OF IT, AND KNOW, UH, I SAID WHAT I SAID, YOU KNOW, WORDS AND, AND, AND THEY MAY GET ME A LITTLE CONFUSED BECAUSE THE OTHER END OF IT IS THIS. HERE'S THE OTHER SHOPPER THAT FROM MY USE AND MY, MY S I HAVE PASSED FOR WHITE BECAUSE I LOOK ON MY WHITE, YOU KNOW, WHERE, AND THEY GET THAT CONFUSED. I'M A BLACK CONTRACTOR, YOU KNOW, AND ALL THOSE JOURNEYMEN THAT IN THE CITY, THE FOUR FIVE WEEK DOCTOR [02:30:01] WORKS FOR OTTO AND NOT THESE STRANGERS THAT'S NOT ON MY PAYROLL, NO IDENTIFICATION AND NO VEHICLE, MY NAME ON IT, MY NAME ON IT, NO CARD, NO CONTRACT WITH THEM. BUT THEY SAID, LET'S GO. WE CAN WRESTLE WITH THIS IN COURT. YOU KNOW, WORDS AND THE FACTS WILL COME OUT. SO I WILL BE THERE FOR THIS BY, YOU KNOW, WITH, YOU KNOW, YOU TIE MY HAND. WELL, I CAN'T EVEN WORK BEFORE I EVEN GET TO COURT. I'M GOING, THAT'S HOW, LET ME, I'M GONNA CLOSE WITH THIS. I WENT DOWN THERE TO GET A PERMIT AT ONE O'CLOCK, AT THREE O'CLOCK. I I WAS SUSPENDED. THAT'S FAST. I SAID, GIMME SOME FACTS. GIVE ME SOMETHING. WHAT Y'ALL GIMME A VIOLATION FOR? NO. CAN YOU GIMME SOMETHING? NO. AND I HAD TO GO TO THE CITY MANAGER AND ASK HIM, GIVE ME AN APPOINTMENT SO I CAN GO OVER THERE WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE FACTS. LET'S DEAL WITH THE FACTS. DON'T TELL ME YOU DON'T LIKE ME. LET'S DEAL WITH THE FACTS. AND I'M GONNA STOP RIGHT THERE BECAUSE IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, WE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THEY PULLED THIS TODAY ON, ON SOME, ON SOME JOBS. THEY HAVE NEVER TALKED TO ME ABOUT IT. NOBODY SAID NOTHING UNTIL NOW WE INVESTIGATED THIS. YOU DON'T HAVE A PERMIT THERE. AND THEY MAKE MISTAKES FLYING THERE. I TOOK $1,400 DOWN THERE IN THE ACCOUNT. THEY WENT ANOTHER ACCOUNT AND THEY ISSUED ME PERMITS. AND COME TO FIND OUT THE MONEY WAS SOMEWHERE ELSE. SO EVERYBODY MAKES MISTAKES. EVEN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, YOU KNOW, , YOU KNOW, AND THE LAST FOLDER, BECAUSE I'M, WE DON'T NEED TO KEEP TALKING, BUT LET ME DO THIS. I'M A CERTIFIED MASTER PLUMBER. WE GOT A FIGHT OUT HERE CALLED THE, YOU KNOW, UH, A, UH, THE GOVERNOR THAT HAS MADE THIS A THE DRAFT STATE WITH THE ARTICLES I READ A LOT. I MEAN, I READ IS THAT FACT THAT YOU LOOKING AT THAT WITH A LITTLE HELP STATE. I, I WROTE IT. AND YOU ARE UNDER A DISASTER IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, BUT WITH A MASK. AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? THAT IF YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO COME HELP PUT 'EM TO WORK, DON'T STOP 'EM, GO TO WORK. WE GOT A BIGGER PROBLEM THAN OT. IT'S CALLED FIGHTING THE VIRUS. AND WE GOT ANOTHER BIG PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, IN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, IT'S CALLED RACISM. WE CAN FIGHT THAT TOO. BUT YOU NEED EVERYBODY THAT MATTERS WHEN IT COME DOWN AND MAKE THIS THING WORK. WE NEED EVERYBODY, NOT JUST OTTO SITTING AT HOME WITH IT, WITH IT, YOU KNOW, HANDS PIE AND CAN'T DO NOTHING. GO OUT THERE, OTTO. I CAN TALK TO THEM. I'VE BEEN TALKING FOR 50 YEARS. I CLOSE. WE NEED EVERYBODY IMPORTANT THAT I DON'T HAVE. I GOT MY GIRL HERE READY TO TALK, BUT I'M GONNA STOP 'EM. BUT THE TIME I HAVEN'T SEEN ENOUGH, YOU KNOW, AND THE GERMAN MEMBERS THAT WORKED FOR ME AND ALL 'EM GOT LIFE, YOU KNOW, WHERE CURRENT, READY TO GO. ALL RIGHT. BUT WE SITTING AT HOME BEHIND A ALLEGATION THOUGH, NOTHING BEFORE WE CAN EVEN GO. YOU DON'T GIMME NO DATE. SO, BUT ANYWAY, I'M GONNA STOP. GO AHEAD, SIR. I'M, I'M SEE Y'ALL ON SCREEN. THANK YOU, RO. UM, SO NEXT WE WILL BE GOING ON TO BEFORE QUESTION. WELL, UH, STAFF, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? DID ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC SIDE ON THIS ISSUE? I STOP MY NAME. THAT'S NOT NECESSARY BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHY I, YOU KNOW, WHERE I HAVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT? I'M THE ONE THAT IS THE RESPONSIBLE MASTER PLUMBER, NOT THEM. THIS IS, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD. MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES? NO, WE HAVE, UH, NO PUBLIC COMMENT. OKAY. UH, SO THE NEXT WE'LL WANT TWO QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD. UM, I'M GOING TO USUALLY SAY MY QUESTIONS FOR THE END, BUT I'M GONNA ASK 'EM NOW BECAUSE I'M DOWN TO A LOW PERCENTAGE ON MY PHONE BATTERY. SO, UH, MR. ADAM, DO YOU HAVE, IT'S YOUR COMPANY. WHEN, WHEN YOU GUYS GET CONTRACTED TO DO A FACEBOOK, DO YOU DO RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL OR JUST RESIDENTIAL? BOTH. OKAY. SO WHEN YOU GET CONTRACTED TO DO, UH, A WORK AND GET THE CONTRACTS OR OUT, DO YOU GUYS HAVE, UH, VEHICLES WITH THE COMPANY LOGO AND NAME YOUR, YOUR EMPLOYEES HAVE UNIFORMS, OR HOW DOES SOMEBODY KNOW [02:35:01] THAT YOU GUYS ARE OUT THERE? GOOD QUESTION. LET ME RESPOND. IS THE REQUIREMENT IN THE STATE OF TEXAS A REQUIREMENT? THE CITY OF IN THE ENTIRE STATE WOULD BE WITH THE NUMBER FIVE. THREE. ONE THREE IS A MASS NUMBER MEANS WHEN I GOT MY MASTER'S ON 5,000 PLUMBERS, THAT'S HOW EVERYBODY KNOWS AND MY NAME AND A UNIFORM AND A CONTRACT, AND THAT'S NOT BACK. OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. DO THEY HAVE A UNIFORM? DO YOU HEARD ABOUT VEHICLES? DO YOU HAVE MARK'S VEHICLES? DO THEY HAVE LIKE A COMPANY NAME OR LOGO? A VANS OR TRUCKS OR ANYTHING THAT, BUSINESS CARDS, EVERYTHING? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU, SIR. MY, MY QUESTION IS, THIS IS RAUL VASQUEZ. OKAY. UM, ON THIS, HOW MANY VEHICLES, BUSINESS CARDS, UH, ARE YOU FOLLOWING THE P H C C LICENSE REQUIREMENTS TO HAVE YOUR LICENSE NUMBER POSTED ON ALL THOSE VEHICLES AND BUSINESS CARDS? YES, IT'S BEEN DONE LIKE THAT. WHEN THEY MADE CHANGES, IT, WHEN THEY STARTED OUT WITH IT, I GOT THE LETTER FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS, WHICH MEANS EVERYWHERE WE GO, WE HAVE TO HAVE, I DON'T CARE WHAT IT IS, IT IS A REQUIREMENT. EVEN ON YOUR BUSINESS CARD, EVEN ON TV, YOU BETTER PUT YOUR LICENSE NUMBER DOWN ON THAT CARD. YES, YES. AND THAT END MY QUESTION, MY NEXT QUESTION IS, IS YOU SAID YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY AND, AND YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK FOR, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AROUND THE EAST SIDE AND ALL THAT. WAS IT PERMIT FOR EACH ONE? WAS IT PERMIT YOU SAID, SAID YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK FOR THE COMMUNITY AND CHARGED AND, AND, UH, HOLD ON. UNDERSTAND YOU. THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. OKAY. YOU RAISED YOUR HAND. I'M JUST WATCHING YOU. UH, THE ANSWER, YOU KNOW, WAS YES. AND TO YOU WHEN, UH, A PER PERMIT IS REQUIRED, OTHER WORDS, BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES, YOU KNOW, WE GO OUT THERE, WE FIND NO REQUIREMENT, AND, AND WE FIND OUT IS WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE CITY ORDINANCE OF PULLING A PERMIT. BECAUSE THAT DEAL WITH THE REASON WHY, LET ME JUST EXPLAIN THAT REAL, UH, TO YOU, IF WE HAVE A GAS JOB, C B SS WILL NOT, THE WATER BOARD WILL NOT RAISE ANY ORDERS UNTIL A PERMIT IS CLEARED AT BAY DEPARTMENT. SO YEAH, WE HAVE TO PULL A PERMIT. UH, JACK, I HAVE A QUESTION. SURE. MR. THOMPSON, UH, THE JOB THAT YOU DID ON MAGNOLIA, DID YOU, I KNOW YOU DIDN'T HAVE A CONTRACT, DID YOU PULL A PERMIT ON THAT, THAT JOB? WE HAD PULLED A, THAT WAS FROM ARAC TEAM. OKAY. WHICH IS YOU OTHER WORDS. ARAC TEAM IS DESIGN WHAT CAN DO, WHATEVER THEY DO, I GOT 'EM CLASSIFIED SOMETHING ELSE. BUT LET'S GET TO THE POINT. UH, I PULLED A PERMIT BECAUSE, UH, AND IT WAS ALREADY CAUGHT WITH NO PERMITS ON THE PROPERTY. I WENT BEFORE I EVEN GET THERE, IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. AND I WENT AND PULLED THE PERMIT WAS GETTING READY TO START. IN OTHER WORDS, UH, THE, UH, THE BEGINNING, INITIAL, UH, DEPOSITS ARE DONE IN THE OFFICE. AND THE GUY WENT AND, AND, UH, AND HE COMPLETE, UH, START THE JOB YET BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY YOU. I TOLD WHAT I, HE SAID, BUT I'M GOING TO PAY YOU. AND I PULLED THE PRICE. SO, YOU KNOW, WORDS, HE SAYS, I GOTTA GO TO INDIA. UH, I'LL BE BACK IN 30 DAYS. I SAID, OKAY. YOU KNOW, AND HE DIDN'T SHOW BACK UP UNTIL, UH, THE HOSPITAL HE HAD. SO I PULLED BACK AND READY TO GO ON MISS A TO WE, AND HERE'S THE THING, WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING OUT THERE. NOTHING. SO, IN MAGNOLIA, YOU DID DO ANY WORK AT ALL AT THAT HOUSE BEFORE THE PERMIT TO START? WE DIDN'T DO NOTHING. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO. BECAUSE THEY, THAT WAS ON HOLD BECAUSE OF A FINANCIAL SITUATION. OKAY. SO NO, NOW THEY HAD SOME OTHER WORK. NOW LET ME CLARIFY THIS. SO, BECAUSE I WANT GET IT TURNED AROUND. YES. THEY HAD IT BEEN CAUGHT, UH, ON THE PROPERTY WITH SOME WORK DONE WITHOUT A PERMIT BEFORE I GOT THERE. ALL RIGHT. SO MY PERMIT NOW, HIS, HIS WAS, GETS ME ON THAT ONE, IS THEY DID THE INSPECTION [02:40:01] FOR THE ROUGH END, TOP OUT AND FINAL, ALL IN ONE STATE. AND, AND, AND, AND, AND SAID, WELL, UH, AND I DIDN'T CALL THEM TO GO OUT THERE, BUT THEY SAID THEY HAD SO MUCH PRESSURE FROM THE HOMEOWNER THAT THEY SHOWED UP. AND SO IT IS NOT IN A CALL CENTER THAT AUTO CALLING IT IN, YOU KNOW, WHICH IT, IT IS CALLED. AND BY THE WAY, WHEN I CALLED IN A PERMIT FOR INSPECTION, YOU KNOW, I DON'T GIVE MY NAME. YOU KNOW WHY? 'CAUSE I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR THE LAST 10 OR 15 YEARS, JUST SO NO. SO, BUT ANYWAY, WE HAVE AN OPEN PERMIT AND I DIDN'T CLOSE IT DOWN BECAUSE THE GUY WAS COMING BACK AND THAT'S WHY IT'S OPEN. OKAY. BUT MAGNOLIA, YOU NEVER DID ANY WORK THERE. YOU NEVER DID ANY WORK DOWN, NEVER DID ANY WORK DOWN. SO YOU DID HAVE TO, YOU DIDN'T CALL ANY INSPECTIONS ON THAT ONE? I DIDN'T CALL FOR INSPECTION. I DIDN'T CALL BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, NO, I DIDN'T CALL NO INSPECTION IN FOR THAT. THEY SHOWED UP AND SHOWED IT. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BUT THE RECORD, I DON'T HAVE NO, NO, NO EMPLOYEES, NO, UH, CALL IN. WE HAVE A ACTIVE PERMIT AND GUESS WHERE I LEFT IT OPEN? WHY WE LEAVE IT OPEN? BECAUSE IF THEY SIGN THE, UH, IF THEY COME IN TO FINISH THIS PRIOR, OUR MONIES AND SO FORTH, WE DON'T DO NOTHING UNTIL THEY HAVE FINE CONTACT AND THEY A, A, A DEPOSIT. THAT'S JUST THE WAY THE BUSINESS OPERATES. OKAY. YOU WANT ME OUT? ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I'VE GOT A A QUICK QUESTION FOR STAFF REAL QUICK. UM, UM, IN ANY OF THOSE LOCATIONS WHERE THERE WAS, UH, UH, PEOPLE WHO SAID THEY WERE WORKING FOR MR. OTTO THAT THEY WERE, THEY DIDN'T HAVE PERMIT, WAS THERE ANY OTHER EMPLOYEES OR OTHER DISCIPLINES THERE FROM OTHER COMPANIES THAT WERE CAUGHT WITHOUT PERMIT? MAYBE LET'S SAY THEY WERE FROM MR. OTTO, THEY WERE FOR THE SHEET ROCK OR, OR HVAC OR ANY OF THE OTHER, OR ELECTRICIANS. WERE THERE ANY OTHER PEOPLE THERE THAT WERE ASKED IF THEY WERE THERE, UH, WITH PROPER PERMITS? DO WE KNOW THAT ANSWER? UH, THIS IS, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. UM, THE HOUSE AT 6 38 AON, UH, THE FIRST ONE WE TALKED ABOUT THAT WAS, UM, PART OF THE INITIAL 30 DAY SUSPENSION. UH, THAT HOUSE WAS A, UH, I THINK THAT ONE HAD MULTIPLE TRAYS AND CONTRACTORS, ONE WORK FOR THAT INSPECTION. UH, SO THERE'S, UH, PLENTY THAT WE WENT AFTER ON THAT I CAN, UH, WOULD LIKE, I CAN PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION, PULL THAT FROM OUR RECORD. NO, THAT'S, THAT'S FINE. I WAS JUST WONDERING 'CAUSE IT'S, THERE'S MULTIPLE INSTANCES, SO I, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF, UM, IF THAT WAS A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT JUST GOING INTO ONE PERSON THERE, BUT IF, IF EVERYBODY'S BEING ASKED ABOUT THEIR, UH, JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYONE'S BEING ASKED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE AND EVERY DISCIPLINE'S DOING WORK WITH PERMITS. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S WHAT THE SITUATION IS. YES. DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, UH, QUESTIONS FOR THE BOARD? I HAD A QUESTION. JUST JACK UP MORE. UH, JEREMY, WHEN THE LETTERS ARE SENT OUT, ARE THEY SENT OUT CERTIFIED OR ARE THEY JUST REGULAR MAIL? UH, THEY ARE EMAILED AND CERTIFIED. UH, MAIL. SO DID YOU GET, UH, RECEIPT, UH, RECEIPT RETURNED? NO. UM, WE RECEIVED THE LETTER BACK, UH, AS NON DELIVERABLE. SO NOT SHOWN AS BEING RECEIVED? CORRECT. OKAY. ANY OTHER, UH, QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD FOR EITHER STAFF OR MR. OTTO? I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. HOW WOULD SOMEBODY BE ABLE TO PROVING EMPLOYMENT? IT WOULD BE EASY. 'CAUSE THEN HE COULD BRING OUT PAY STUBS THAT SAYS, YES, THIS IS MY GUY, AND, AND YOU KNOW, HERE'S, HERE'S THE PAY STUB THAT HE WORKS FOR ME, AND HERE'S A COPY OF HIS JOURNEYMAN'S OR MASTER'S LICENSE. HOW WOULD SOMEBODY PROVE THAT THEY DON'T WORK? SOMEBODY? 'CAUSE IF THEY'RE NOT EMPLOYEES, THEY WOULD'VE, NO DOCUMENTATION IS THERE. IF THEY WANTED TO BRING YOU, LIKE, THIS IS MY CURRENT LEDGER, MY CURRENT PAYROLL, THESE ARE ALL THE EMPLOYEES WE HAVE, UH, FROM MY ACCOUNTANT OR ACCOUNTING. AND SO S AND C, NONE OF THESE GUYS ARE HERE. IS THAT ALLOWED OR ARE THERE WAYS THEY COULD TRY, ATTEMPT TO PROVE THAT SOMEONE ON SITE JUST SAYS, OH YEAH, I WORK FOR, YOU KNOW, UH, IN THIS CASE, MR. OTTO, OR, OR, OR IN ANY CASE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE GIVE THE NAME OF A, A COMPANY THAT'S ON TV, BUT IS WOULD THAT BE ALLOWED? [02:45:02] UM, YEAH, I MEAN, THIS ONE SPECIFICALLY, UH, WE DID HAVE THE CONTRACTORS ON SITE. UH, THEY IMMEDIATELY CALLED MR. HARRISON UP AND OUR INSPECTOR TALKED MR. HARRISON, UH, WE DO EXPECTATIONS WITH HIM, UH, CONFIRM THAT THEY WERE MOVING FOR HIM SITE? NO. UH, WE DO HAVE, UM, RECORDINGS OF OUR PHONE CONVERSATIONS WITH, UH, THE BOARD. WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THEM IN OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. HARRISON ON A COUPLE. YES, SIR. SERIOUS, IF THEY RAISED ME TO SAY SOMETHING, THEN, UH, HELLO? NO. OKAY. UH, SO, UH, WE HAVE A AUDIO VIDEO, UH, AUDIO, UH, RECORDING FROM OUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. KIRSTEN IN REGARDS TO, UH, THIS ADDRESS, I APOLOGIZE. 1419. ALRIGHT. OKAY. ALL THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST, IS THAT THE END OF THE AUDIO FILE? WAS ANYBODY ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS SAID IN THAT AUDIO FILE? UH, 30% BARELY. UH, LET ME, UH, TRY AGAIN. I CAN SHARE THE AUDIO FILE DIRECTLY. UH, I, I CAN'T HEAR IT ON THIS SIDE. SO THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WE TRIED TO GO THIS ROUTE. BUT I DO AGREE THAT JEREMY, JEREMY, DID YOU, UH, MAKE A TRANSCRIPT OF A, UH, CONVERSATION AND DISTRIBUTE IT? UH, WE DID NOT, NO. OKAY. SO BEFORE WE GO THROUGH THE EX, THIS IS MICRO BEFORE THE OUT THE TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF US HEARING THIS CONVERSATION, CAN YOU JUST GIVE US WHAT IT IS THAT IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT'S, UH, PROBATIVE VALUE IN THIS CASE? NOT, I'M NOT REAL CLEAR ON THAT. SO THIS WAS, UH, WE WERE DISCUSSING, UH, THE INITIAL PHONE CALL CONVERSATIONS WE WERE HAVING WITH MR. HARRISON AT THIS TIME, UH, WAS IN REGARDS TO THE MAGNOLIA HOUSE. AND THAT'S WHEN WE, UH, CAME ACROSS THIS MONT ONE. UH, SO, UH, THIS CONVERSATION, UH, WE TRANSITIONED FROM THE, UH, MAGNOLIA HOUSE PROPERTY TO LET HIM KNOW THAT WE, UH, WE'RE GONNA BE INVESTIGATING, UH, ANOTHER PROPERTY. WE DIDN'T GIVE HIM, UH, ADDRESSES YET. BUT, UH, HE DID CONFIRM, UH, THAT THERE WAS INDIVIDUALS ON SITE THAT WERE MOVING A PONY WALL DOING PROPERTY WORK AND ALSO MOVING A, UH, PLUMBING. UH, SO THAT, UH, WHAT WHAT IT WAS WAS THE, UH, KITCHEN ISLAND ISLAND NEEDED TO BE RELOCATED. UM, SO [02:50:01] THEY WERE DOING BOTH THE, UH, CARPENTRY WORK AND THE PLUMBING WORK TO GET THAT RELOCATED. UH, HE DID CONFIRM, UH, THAT THAT WAS GOING ON AND WAS AWARE IT HAD ENDED, UH, REFERENCE IT AT THE PIEDMONT PROPERTY. AND WE HAVE IT READY FOR, UH, A LITTLE BIT LOUDER IF Y WOULD LIKE TO GO BUILDING OUT. I JOB TALKING. OKAY. I, I MISSED, I GUESS KEEP COMMUNICATION OPEN. I WRITE A LETTER, GET TO MY, MY, MY, MY OFFICE. I HAVE, I WAS GONNA ASK YOU, SO WE RECENTLY JUST TALKED BEFORE YOU GUYS WORKING ON A LOCATION THAT WE'RE NOT LICENSED. YEAH. YOU GONNA CALL ME PLUMBING CARPENTER? PLUMBING. WORKING ON PLUMBING. THEY WERE PROMISED. THEY, THEY WERE OVER THERE MOVING ALONG AND MOVING THE PLUMBING AT THE SAME TIME. YES. UH, DANIEL PORT CALLED ME. OKAY. THEY DID NOT YET. YEAH, HE DID. AND WORDS, BUT I WAS, BUT HE WAS ON THE GO OUT WAS TOO, SO HE LEFT, BUT I'M AWARE OF, HE AND I COMMUNICATED, SO I'M, I'M COMMUNICATING WITH HIM AS WELL. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO I, I MEAN, WHAT I'M SAYING IS I USUALLY BE TALKING HIM DOWN DOWNTOWN TO Y'ALL, SO I'M JUST DOING EVERYTHING ON, ON, ON TELEPHONE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST DOING THAT PART. I'M AWARE ON STREET. SO THAT'S ANOTHER, UH, WHAT THEY WAS GOING ON. OKAY. I DIDN'T GET NAME THEY PUT THERE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO I HAVE NO ARGUMENT WITH THAT. THEY WAS THERE DOING SOME WORK. OKAY. DOWNTOWN. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. BYE. I DID HE SAY THAT THERE ARE PLUMBERS ON THE JOB SITE WORKING? THAT'S WHAT THEY, THAT'S WHAT I HEARD. YES, THAT'S WHAT I HEARD TOO. THE SAME GUYS THAT WERE, UH, SUPPOSEDLY THE MOST RECENT HOUSE. DO WE KNOW, HAVE THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE THAT, THAT WERE, UH, IN THAT LOCATION THAT JUST REFERENCED, UH, CORRECT. SO THIS WAS IN REFERENCE TO THE LATEST HOUSE, , UH, , UH, PROPERTY. THEY WERE ALSO THE ONES THAT WERE WORKING AT MAGNOLIA. NO, UH, UH, MAGNOLIA WAS NOT A, UH, A HOUSE THAT WE GOT WORK BEING DONE WITHOUT PERMITS. THAT WAS THE HOUSE THAT, UH, WE REFERENCED BECAUSE HE, UH, NEVER CLOSED UP A PERMIT AND THE HOUSE WAS SOLD. UH, AT THIS POINT, ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS, UH, FROM THE BOARD FOR STAFF OR FROM MR. OTTO? UH, THIS IS, THIS IS MAX BOARD. UM, I'D LIKE TO ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS. I'M LOOKING AT THE, UH, COMPLAINT THAT THE INSPECTOR WROTE UP WHERE HE VISUALIZED A VAN WITH NO LICENSE NUMBER ON IT. SAW TWO MEN TAKING PLUMBING MATERIAL INTO A HOUSE, SAW THAT THEY WERE DOING PLUMBING, UH, APPROACHED THEM AND ASKED THEIR NAMES. THEY CONFIRMED THAT THEY, UH, DID NOT HAVE A PLUMBING LICENSE. UM, AND, UH, SAID THAT THEY, THEY, UH, CALLED OTTO. UH, AND, UH, AND OTTO SAID IN THIS, IN THIS COMPLAINT THAT THE GUYS WERE HIS. BUT THEN WHEN YOU LOOK AT A LETTER DATED APRIL 14TH FROM OTTO, THERE'S A REFERENCE TO THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR'S, KEITH JONES, CONTRACTOR NUMBER H 9 2 8 9 0 9, UH, SUB HAD ON THE JOB SUBCONTRACTOR, THE PLUMBING WORK TO AUTO. SO WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE AND OPERAT AUTHORIZATION HAD HIS EMPLOYEES, SANFORD HOOD AND ALBERT FRANKLIN. THESE ARE THE TWO INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE SPOTTED BY THE INSPECTOR DUE TO WORK. MY QUESTION IS, WHAT, UH, WHAT INTERVIEW HAS BEEN HELD WITH KEITH JONES TO CONFIRM, UH, THAT STATEMENT IN THAT LETTER? BECAUSE THEN ON 4 21, THERE'S A HANDWRITTEN LETTER, UH, [02:55:01] NOTARIZED FROM, UH, FROM, UH, FROM KEITH JONES VERIFYING THAT THE EMPLOYEES SANFORD HOOD, UH, THAT AN EMPLOYEE, SANFORD WORKED FOR HIM FULL TIME. SO, UM, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF CON CONFUSION ON, ON MY PART. DID WE TALK TO, UH, KEITH JONES, THE RESIDENTIAL CONTRACTOR AND VERIFY ALL OF THIS? YES. UH, THIS IS DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. I PERSONALLY TOLD MR. JONES AND ASKED HIM IF THE TWO, UH, INDIVIDUALS WORK FOR HIM OR FOR OSO. AND HE SAID NORMALLY THEY WORK FOR HIM AND HE PAID THEM ON WEEKLY BASIS. BUT THAT DAY WHEN THEY WERE CAUGHT, THEY WERE WORKING ON PLUMBING FOR OSO. SO I ASKED HIM TO WRITE A STATEMENT. HE DID, AND HE EMAILED ME THE STATEMENT. HE SENT YOU THE STATEMENT DATED 4 21. UH, I DON'T HAVE THE STATEMENT PROCESS THAT YOU EXACTLY DATE . DO YOU HAVE IT? UH, MR. HPER, YOU'RE, YOU'RE REFERENCING THE PACKAGE THAT, UH, MR. HAD FOR HIS APPEAL. DO YOU KNOW WHAT, UH, PAGE THAT WAS? I, I HAVE IT PULLED UP RIGHT HERE AFTER THAT. YEAH, IT WAS, UH, IT WAS TOWARD THE MIDDLE. THAT, THAT LETTER THAT YOU SEE RIGHT THERE IS ONE THAT I WAS REFERRING TO. UH, AND THEN, UH, NO, I'VE GOT, I'M SHOWING IN, I'M SHOWING IN THE PACKAGE THAT THERE WAS A HANDWRITTEN LETTER NOTARIZED BY KEITH NOTARIZED WAS WRITTEN BY KEITH JONES. THERE YOU GO. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S A LETTER THAT STATES THAT STA THAT SANFORD, UH, HOOD. SANFORD HOOD WAS, WAS HIS EMPLOYEE. SO, UH, SO WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, SIR, WHEN YOU CALLED AND SPOKE TO HIM, HE INDICATED THAT HIS, HIS EMPLOYEE WAS, UH, WORKING DIRECTLY FOR OTO AT THAT TIME AT ? YES. YES, THAT IS CORRECT. HE SAID, UH, THEY WERE MOVING A WALL FOR HIM, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T BE WORKING ON THE PLUMBING. AND APPARENTLY THEY WERE WORKING FOR ARTHUR ON THE PLUMBING PORTION. AND AGAIN, I ASKED HIM FOR A WRITTEN STATEMENT. HE EMAILED ME ONE AND I THINK JEREMY DID SHOW IT THROUGH HIS PRESENTATION. CORRECT. SO THE HENRY LETTER IS DATED APRIL 21ST. THIS IS AN EMAIL THAT WE SUBSEQUENTLY RECEIVED FROM MR. JONES ON APRIL 22ND, UH, CLARIFYING WHAT WORK WAS DOING DONE UNDER WHOSE AUTHORITY OR WHO WAS WHO THOSE GENTLEMEN WERE WORKING FOR AT THE TIME. OKAY. NO MORE QUESTIONS FROM MY SIDE. OKAY. UH, ARE THERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS BEFORE THERE'S ANY MORE QUESTIONS? I'M GONNA HAVE THE MEETING OVER AT JACK 'CAUSE MY PHONE'S IN THE SINGLE DIGITS. NO, THANKS CHRIS. I APPRECIATE THAT. . SO I, I DON'T HAVE THE PROTOCOL IN FRONT OF ME, UH, OF WHAT THE, UH, THE NEXT STEPS WOULD BE. UM, DO WE NEED TO FIND IF, IS THAT NO, NO FURTHER QUESTIONS FROM ANYBODY ON THE BOARD? NO QUESTIONS FROM ME. OKAY. SO WHAT'S THE NEXT STEP WE NEED TO DO, JEREMY? IT GOES BACK TO Y'ALL TO, OR FOR US TO MAKE A DECISION, UH, CORRECT. IF Y'ALL ARE HAPPY WITH ALL COMMENTS FROM, UH, MR. HARRISON AND HIS, UH, APPEAL AND THE STAFF, THEN Y'ALL CAN CLOSE IT TO OPEN, UH, THE COMMENTS AND HAVE A DISCUSSION. AND AT THAT POINT I WOULD'VE TO, UH, MAKE A MOTION, UH, TO MAKE A RULING ON THE APPEAL. OKAY. WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO OPEN UP THE DISCUSSION OR MAKE [03:00:01] A MOTION, ONE OR THE OTHER? SO THE ONLY THING I HAVE, UH, COMMENT ON, UM, I'D ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ON THE LICENSING. UH, AND THEN I'M, FOR EXAMPLE, THE T E C L LICENSE NUMBER OR THE PLUMBING LICENSE NUMBER ON THE VEHICLES, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHICH I'M HEARING THEY WEREN'T ANY LICENSES. THERE WAS UNMARKED VEHICLES. AND THESE TWO GENTLEMEN, UH, THE, HE'S SAYING DID NOT WORK FOR HIM. HE WANTS TO SHOW US PAYROLL RECORDS OR, BUT, UH, UH, THE CITY HAS RECORDS THAT SOMEONE GAVE THEM A LETTER STATING THAT THEY, THEY WERE WORKING FOR HIM THAT DAY. IS THAT, IS THAT WHAT I'M GETTING? AM I CORRECT OR IS SOMETHING OFF? YES, YOU, YOU ARE CORRECT. THIS IS . SO BASICALLY, UH, WHAT HAPPENED IS I THINK ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS, UH, ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT HOW DO WE TRACK DOWN THE EMPLOYEES? DO WE HAVE , THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WE ARE CATCHING, AND IT'S NOT JUST , IT'S LIKE DIFFERENT CONTRACTING. THEY HIRE SOMEBODY ON THE SIDE AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY MARKED VEHICLE. THEY UNLICENSED PEOPLE. SO FOR US, I MEAN, WHEN WE GET TO THE JOB SITE, WE SAW A WHITE VAN. IT HAS A LOT OF PLUMBING COMPONENTS AND POWER. AND THEN WHEN WE WALK IN, WE TALK TO THE TWO PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING ON THE PLUMBING AND THEY SAID FOR LONG LET GO AND THEN THE GENERAL CONTRACTOR AFTER THEN TO DO THE PLUMBING WORK. SO THAT'S HOW WE ESTABLISH THAT. SO IF AFTER CAN TAKE, I CAN SHOW YOU MY AND THEY'RE NOT ON, THAT REALLY DOESN'T MEAN MUCH. AND THEN IF HE SEE, SAYS THE VEHICLE DID NOT HAVE HIS NUMBER, THAT THAT IS CORRECT BECAUSE IF, IF ANYBODY'S DOING PLUMBING WITHOUT THEIR A LICENSE NUMBER ON THE VEHICLE, THEY'RE ACTUALLY IN VIOLATION OF THE STATE MARK. OKAY. SO I I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. WE DIDN'T GET TO HEAR BACK FROM MR. THOMPSON AFTER WE HEARD THE GO, UH, STILL AVAILABLE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION AS DID HE HEAR THAT, DID HE AGREE THAT THAT WAS HIS VOICE? DID THAT, DID HE AGREE THAT HE DID SAY YES, THOSE WERE HIS GUYS WORKING ON THE PLUMBING? DID HE HEAR THAT? UH, UH, THIS IS, UH, JEREMY MCDONALD. LET ME, UH, UNMUTE. WE HAD, UH, UNMUTED. SO YOU CAN ASK THAT QUESTION NOW. OKAY, MR. THOMPSON, THIS IS JACK UP MORGAN, I HAD A QUESTION. WERE WERE YOU ABLE TO HEAR THE AUDIO THAT THEY PLAYED TO US? IT WAS ROUGH, BUT I HEARD MOST OF IT. BUT I, I, I KNOW WHAT I KNOW THE, UH, THE CONVERSATION. SO GO AHEAD. QUESTION. IT WAS JUST A, MY SIMPLE QUESTION IS, UH, THEY PLAYED THAT TO US TO LET US HEAR YOU TALKING, CONFIRMING THAT THOSE WERE YOUR GUYS WORKING ON THE JOB DURING THE PLUMBING. AND THAT'S WHAT YOUR VOICE WAS SAYING THAT WE HEARD ON THE AUDIO. AND I JUST WANT TO SAY OR ASK YOU, IS THAT, IS THAT TRUE? DID YOU HEAR THAT? NO, NO, NO. THE CONVERSATION WAS WITH JOE , NOT, NOT THAT'S AN INSPECTOR AND THAT'S AN INSPECTOR THAT I CALLED, I'VE SET UP A MEETING OR A LETTER TO JOSEPH NOW ON MISTO. ALRIGHT. THAT'S WHAT THE PHONE CALL WENT OUT ABOUT. AND HE RESPONDED BACK THOUGH, YOU KNOW, THAT, UH, MR. FORTI IS OVER THERE ON, UH, UH, UH, PIEDMONT AND I GOT A CALL FROM PIEDMONT. IN OTHER WORDS, HE DIDN'T EVER ASK ME IF THOSE MY GUY, UH, AND YOU CAN LOOK IN THE LETTERS, LOOK THE PACKAGE. HE, HIS RESPONSE, MY, HE ASKED ME, DO I KNOW THOSE GUYS? AND I SAID, YES, I KNEW THOSE GUYS. THEY MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH, THEY MEMBERS. BUT YOU SEE THAT, THAT CONVERSATION YOU SAID WE WERE HEARING ON THE AUDIO AND THERE WAS NO, UH, YEAH, I NEVER SAID THEY, THEY WERE, UH, THE GUYS, I KNOW THEM BY NAME, YOU KNOW, WORDS. SO WHEN I WAS TALKING TO JOE, I, I SAID, I GOTTA COME DOWNTOWN, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT ABLE TO COME BECAUSE OF SICKNESS. AND I'VE GOT A PHONE CALL FROM 40, YOU KNOW, AND I'M AWARE OF IT. I'M VERY AWARE OF WHAT HE WAS CALLING BY. HE CALLED AND SAID THAT [03:05:01] THEY WAS, UH, HE CAUGHT TWO GUYS OVER A BUNCH OF PLUMBING. WELL, THAT HE JUST CAUGHT TWO GUYS. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME, YOU KNOW, WORDS. HE SAID, DO YOU KNOW HIM? I SAID, YES. AND THAT WAS IT. THAT WAS A PHONE CALL. I DIDN'T SAY THEY WERE MY EMPLOYEES AND, AND, AND I KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD AND ALL THAT. NO, I DIDN'T DO THAT. THAT WASN'T A CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, AND IT WASN'T A CONVERSATION. IT WAS A CONVERSATION ON SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT. AND I, I MADE, UH, TRANSPARENT AND I KNOWLEDGE THAT I KNOW THEM BY NAME, NOT AS THE EMPLOYEES, AS MEMBERS OF MY CHURCH. AND THAT'S WHAT I PUT IN, IN THE LETTER. DIDN'T, THERE'S NOTHING THAT THEY WERE OUT THERE WORKING AND DOING. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THEY WERE EVEN THERE. HOW DO YOU KNOW KY WAS EVEN GOING ON THE JOB OR NOTHING? OKAY. YEAH. HE OPEN UP. YEAH. YEAH. JEREMY, WE CAN CONTINUE WITH OUR DISCUSSION. UH, VICE CHAIR MORE. THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. AM. YES, SIR. CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION ABOUT, UH, PROCESS AND PROCEDURE RELATED TO IF A PERMIT IS ISSUED FOR PLUMBING WORK, IT'S THE PERSON WHO, UH, INITIATED THE PERMIT AND RECEIVED IT, THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT TRADE UNTIL THE PROJECT'S CLOSED OUT. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. SO IF SOMETHING OCCURS ON A PROJECT, UM, THAT, THAT IT WAS ASSIGNED TO X, Y, Z, PLUMBING X, Y, Z, WHETHER THEY DID IT OR THAT, OR THEY DIDN'T DO IT, THEY'RE STILL LIABLE BECAUSE THEY PULLED THE PERMIT FOR THE PLUMBING TRADE. THAT, THAT IS CORRECT. SO ALL THE PERMIT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WORK, UH, AND RESPONSIBLE FOR THE QUALITY OF WORK AND INSPECTION AND THE WHOLE NINE YARD. THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THAT. CAN I FURTHER ON THAT, JUST JACK UP MORE AGAIN? UM, I MEAN, SO THE PROCEDURE WOULD BE IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T, IF SOMEBODY PULLS A PERMIT AND NEVER DOES ANY WORK ON IT, EVER, ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO JUST CLOSE IT OUT SO THEY SAY, WE NEVER DID THE JOB? I MEAN, THAT, THAT COULD HAPPEN. UH, IF, IF WE DID NOT CATCH THE WORK, WHICH OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T CATCH EVERYTHING, BUT, UM, AND, AND THE CASES WE TALKED ABOUT, WE PHYSICALLY VISITED THOSE LOCATIONS AND WE SAW THE WORK BEING PERFORMED. AND SO THE ONE ON, AGAIN, ON MAGNOLIA THAT WE'RE SAYING NO WORK, MR. THOMPSON SAID HE DIDN'T DO ANY WORK ON, DID Y'ALL WITNESS WORK WAS BEING DONE THERE? NO, I BELIEVE ON THAT ONE, UH, HE PULLED THE PERMIT, BUT HE DIDN'T DO INSPECTION ON THE HOUSE WAS HOME. OKAY. BUT SO NO WORK OCCURRED AT THAT ONE? WE, WE SAID WORK. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. I I KNOW WE'VE GOTTA DISCUSS THIS FURTHER. AND THIS IS, THIS IS, I KNOW EVERYBODY IS, UH, CONTEMPLATING THIS VERY HARD AND THERE IS A LOT OF, UM, IT, IT GETS CONFUSING 'CAUSE IT'S A HE SAID, SHE SAID THING AND, AND I'M LOOKING FOR DIRECTION FROM OTHERS ON THE BOARD. UM, HEY JACK, THIS IS, UM, MIKE GROSS. I'LL JUST CHIME IN WITH, WITH MY, MY 2 CENTS. UM, I GET, UH, I, I , I, UH, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND, UH, WHERE MR. HANLEY WAS GOING WITH, YOU KNOW, IF, IF, IF THERE'S PLUMBING IN THE HOUSE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PLUMBERS THAT PULLED THE PERMITS RESPONSIBLE FOR IT, UM, I THINK ANY OF US THAT HAVE HAVE MANAGED, UH, A CONSTRUCTION JOB KNOW THAT IT'S NOT UNHEARD OF FOR ONE TRADE TO, UH, DAMAGE, YOU KNOW, OR AFFECT ANOTHER TRADE'S WORK. UH, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE MOVING A POINTY WALL THAT INCLUDES, YOU KNOW, CHOPPING OFF A, YOU KNOW, A DRAIN OR A, OR A VAN OR WHATEVER IT IS, UH, SO THAT THEY CAN ACCOMPLISH MOVING THEIR WALL, I DON'T KNOW THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IS INDICATIVE OF, UM, THEM DOING THE WORK OF THE TRADE. YOU KNOW, I THINK A PERTINENT QUESTION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, MR. OTTO'S PLUMBING COMPANY, WHEN HE PULLS PERMITS AND THOSE PERMITS GET INSPECTIONS TO, THOSE INSPECTIONS GENERALLY PASS. UH, BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE CASE, I THINK THAT'S INDICATIVE OF A ALUM THAT'S USING, UH, LICENSED PLUMBERS AND FOLLOWING CODE. UH, [03:10:01] AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO HEAR BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE GOING ON IS THE WORD OF A CONTRACTOR SAID, YEAH, THESE ARE MY EMPLOYEES, BUT THEY'RE WORKING FOR AUTO. AND I, I DON'T, UM, YOU KNOW, THE HISTORY ASIDE, YOU KNOW, I I'M JUST, I'M ALWAYS VERY HESITANT TO, UH, WANNA AFFECT A MAN'S LIVELIHOOD. UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S, YOU KNOW, ONE TRADE SAYING, UH, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY, LIKE YOU SAID EARLIER, HE SAID, HE SAID, UM, ONE TRADE SAYING ONE THING AND ONE TRADE SAYING ANOTHER THING THAT, THAT'S WHAT'S GOING THROUGH MY MIND. I HAVE A FOLLOW QUESTION. THIS IS ROBERT HENLEY, OUR COURSE OF ACTION. IT, IT APPEARS THAT ON THE AGENDA WE'RE VOTING ON AN APPEAL SUBMITTED FOR THE REVOCATION OF THE COMPANY'S REGISTRATION. SO THIS IS TO A MEANINGFUL, JEREMY, IS THERE, UH, ANOTHER COURSE IN LOOKING AT THE FOUR PAGES OF, UH, ACTIONS FOR THE FIRST FOUR MONTHS THAT WERE SET IN THE PACKAGE OF THE 43, UH, DECISIONS MADE, UH, AND SERVED 74%, 74.4 HAD A 30 DAY SUSPENSION. I DO KNOW THERE'S FULL REVOCATION. I THINK THERE WAS FIVE OR SIX, BUT THERE'S A 60 DAY SUSPENSION AND THERE'S A 90 DAY SUSPENSION. SO AS A BOARD, CAN WE MAKE A DECISION? IS IT ONLY TO APPEAL OF A FULL REVOCATION OR CAN WE SAY, CAN WE DO A 60 OR 90 DAY SUSPENSION? YES. , YOU, YOU, YOU CAN APPARENTLY, UH, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. UH, THE APPEAL IS SPECIFICALLY FOR THE VACATION OF THE LICENSE, BUT YOU, YOU AS THE BOARD MEMBER OR THE BOARD CAN MAKE A DECISION ON HOLD THAT WITHHOLD THAT OR JUST THREE INSTEAD THE LICENSE OR MAKE IT 60 DAYS, 90 DAYS, 180 DAYS. WHAT? I MEAN THAT UP TO YOU. OKAY. THAT, THAT GIVES THE BOARD OPTIONS. THANK YOU. SO YOU CAN ALSO JUST JACK UP MORE AGAIN. SO YOU CAN ALSO SAY 30 DAYS, BUT IT'S ALREADY BEEN SUSPENDED FOR HOW LONG RIGHT NOW? NINE DAYS. NINE DAYS. SO WE CAN RECOMMEND APEN A SUSPENSION AND A MONITORING FOR X AMOUNT OF DAYS OR X THE NEXT JOB OR WHATEVER, AND REASSESS, THIS IS . I THINK WE ALREADY DID THAT. WE, WE GET HIM A SECOND CHANCE. WE MET WITH HIM, WE TALKED TO 'EM, WE TOLD HIM WHAT THE EQUALS GONNA BE. IF, IF HE DOES NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IT'S UP TO YOU ON THE BOAT, YOU CAN DECIDE THAT. BUT AGAIN, IF WE'RE GONNA USE THAT, UM, HE ALREADY HAS THIS CHANCE. , MULTIPLE . ANY, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION FROM THE BOARD? WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO ATTEMPT TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AND OR MOTION THAT GOT, I MEAN, UH, YEAH. JEREMY, THIS IS WILLIAM BURRIS. WHAT IS THE CURRENT SUSPENSION TIMEFRAME? OR IS IT JUST INDEFINITE AT THIS POINT? SO CURRENTLY THIS WAS A REVOCATION. UM, AND SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS THE CONTRACTOR HAS IN, AFTER ONE YEAR, THEY CAN REAPPLY, UH, FOR THEIR, FOR ANOTHER LICENSE OR REGISTRATION, I APOLOGIZE, REGISTRATION WITH CITY OF SAN ANTONIO, UM, AND BE REEVALUATED AT THAT TIME. UH, LET ME REAL QUICK, I CAN PULL UP WHEN, UH, WHEN THAT WAS ACTUALLY WENT OUT. SO THAT TIME PERIOD STARTED ON HIT APRIL 6TH. SO, UH, THE, UH, THE, THE REVOCATION OF HIS REGISTRATION WITH THE CITY IS GONNA AFFECT HIT STATE, UH, TO WHAT WITNESS? [03:15:01] GO AHEAD, BRIAN. I SPEAK. OKAY, UH, CHAIRMAN UP MOORE, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. I, I'M GONNA, IF WHAT JEREMY SAYS, AND BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A FIRST TIME INCIDENT, I'M GONNA MAKE A PROPOSAL ON HOW TO ADDRESS THIS, AND THEN THERE COULD BE SOME DISCUSSION BEFORE THE BOARD TAKES A VOTE. YES, SIR. SO I'M GONNA RECOMMEND THAT WE SUSPEND FROM APRIL THE SIXTH WHEN THE NOTICE WENT OUT INSTEAD OF FULL SUSPENSION AND REVOCATION FOR A YEAR. BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A FIRST TIME INCIDENT THAT WE SUSPENDED FOR SIX MONTHS, STARTING APRIL THE SIXTH. DO I HAVE A SECOND FOR DISCUSSION? BRIAN SMITH? I'LL, I'LL SECOND THAT. DO WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSION AS ON THAT MOTION AS FAR AS TIMING, LENGTH OF SUSPENSION, ET CETERA? SO LET ME GET THIS CLEAR. WE'RE GONNA SU WE'RE GONNA GO WITH THE TIME ALREADY SERVED, THE 90 DAYS, UM, SO THAT IT COULD BE TO THE YEAR. SO IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE GONNA GO ANOTHER SIX MONTHS, NOT THE FULL YEAR OR NOT THE SIX MONTHS, BUT FOUR MONTHS, THREE MONTHS, FOUR MONTHS, OKAY. SO IN OTHER WORDS, IT'LL BE LIKE TIME SERVED INSTEAD OF HIM TRYING TO COME THROUGH ANOTHER FULL YEAR. IS THAT CORRECT? I'M GOOD WITH THAT. OKAY. UH, HEY, JACK, BEFORE YOU, BEFORE WE GO TO A VOTE, SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. I JUST WE'RE, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANT, WE'RE NOT YET. OH, OKAY. ALRIGHT, GOOD. GO AHEAD THEN. I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU. NO, GO AHEAD MIKE. GO, GO AHEAD. YOU'RE UP. UM, YOU KNOW, I JUST, I I APPRECIATE ROBERT, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THERE. UM, I, I JUST, I STILL HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF PAUSE WITH, UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IF SOMEBODY TOLD ME I COULDN'T WORK FOR SIX MONTHS, YOU KNOW, IT WOULDN'T MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE TO ME IF IT WAS SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR. I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF A, A LIFE ALTERING KIND OF THING, YOU KNOW, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE, WE, I THINK WE SHOULD TRY TO ADJUDICATE WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF THE REPLICATION, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE THINK OF IT. UM, AND I'M STILL, YOU KNOW, I'M STILL IN A PLACE WHERE, YOU KNOW, I SEE IT AS WE'RE TAKING THE WORD OF, UH, A CONTRACTOR SAYS THAT THOSE ARE HIS EMPLOYEES, BUT THEY JUST HAPPEN TO BE DOING WORK FOR THE PLUMBER AT THIS MOMENT. UH, VERSUS THE PLUMBER WHO IS SAYING THEY'RE NOT MY GUYS. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO CONTRACTORS THAT THOSE ARE NOT THE PLUMBER'S EMPLOYEES. UM, AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REAL CAREFUL, UH, WITH THAT AND, AND ALL RESPECT TO THE, TO THE CITY DEPARTMENT. I'M NOT, I'M NOT, UH, CASTING ANY VERSIONS ON, ON THEM THERE, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M LEANING MORE TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE SIDE WITH THE, UM, WE SIDE WITH THE APPELLANT, YOU KNOW, IN THAT TWO MONTHS, IT'S BEEN 60 DAYS, YOU KNOW, SINCE OVER 60 DAYS SINCE HE WAS SUSPENDED. AND, YOU KNOW, IF THERE IS SOME AMBIGUITY THAT THAT IS A, IS A, YOU KNOW, A PRETTY INTENSE, UH, PUNISHMENT ALREADY. JUST MY THOUGHTS. SO DO YOU FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE THE, THE TIMING SHOULD BE LESSENED MIKE INSTEAD OF 90 DAYS? YEAH, I, I, I HEARD ROBERT SAY SIX MONTHS. I MIGHT HAVE MISHEARD HIM, BUT, UH, YEAH, I, I, WE WE'RE AT 60 DAYS NOW IF IT WAS APRIL 6TH TO TO, TO NOW, UM, I THINK THAT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, A PRETTY SEVERE PENALTY ON, SO, OKAY. MIKE, THIS IS ROBERT HANLEY. I, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND I THREW SOMETHING OUT SO THAT THE BOARD COULD ACTUALLY ASK SOME DIALOGUE ABOUT WHAT'S RIGHT AND FAIR, THE FACT THAT THIS IS A REPEAT OFFENSE. I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET TO SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT A FULL YEAR, WHICH WOULD BE A BURDEN. AND I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT IN IMPACTING SOMEBODY'S ABILITY FOR INCOME. BUT, UM, SO IF SIX MONTHS IS TOO LONG, ARE YOU OKAY WITH FOUR MONTHS OR THREE MONTHS? AND YES, THERE'S TIME SERVED TO ANSWER MAX'S COMMENTS EARLIER. SO WE, HE SERVED A LITTLE OVER TWO MONTHS, SO I'M TRYING TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO SLACK DOWN DEVELOPMENT SERVICES FOR THEM DOING THEIR JOB. IT'S JUST TO SORT OF, UH, RULE IN FAVOR OF THE APPLICANT THAT HEY, SIX MONTHS, TWO, TWO MONTHS IS FINE. AND THAT'S, I'M TRYING TO COME SOMETHING THAT'S FAIR AND REASONABLE THAT US AS A BOARD CAN GET ON, UH, ON THE SAME PAGE WITH, TO MAKE OUR DECISION SO WE CAN MOVE ON THIS GUY, GIVE MR. OTTO OF CERTAINTY AND GIVE THE CITY SOME CERTAINTY ABOUT THE DECISION THAT WE MAKE AS A BOARD. [03:20:01] YEAH, I I APPRECIATE THAT. I APPRECIATE THAT PROBLEM MR. TRUMAN. THIS IS, THIS IS WILLIAM BURRIS. UM, I FULLY SUPPORT THE CITY AND THEIR STAFF AND THEY RECOMMENDED A YEAR OF SUSPENSION. I WILL GO, UH, I'LL FOLLOW THE SIX MONTHS WITH MR. HANLEY. I, I RECOGNIZE WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO, SO I WOULD SUPPORT THAT, BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT SUPPORT ANYTHING LESS THAN SIX MONTHS. I THINK MR. HANLEY HIT IT, THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. THIS IS A REPEAT OFFENSE. THIS INDIVIDUAL HAS MULTIPLE LOCATIONS THAT HAVE COME INTO QUESTION. UM, SO, UH, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME PENALTY AND TO JUST SAY TIME SERVED AT THIS POINT, I THINK IS UNJUST FOR THE CITY'S, UH, WHAT THE CITY HAS DONE AND WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. UM, LIKE I SAID, I, I WOULD REALLY LIKE, UH, A YEAR, BUT I, I'LL FOLLOW MR. HANLEY'S, UH, SUGGESTION OF SIX MONTHS, AND IT IS GONNA BE ACTUALLY HOW MANY MONTHS AT THIS POINT FROM THIS POINT ON? WELL, IT STARTED APRIL 6TH, SO WE'VE ALREADY GOT TWO MONTHS AND A WEEK GONE BY ALMOST. SO IT'S SIX MONTHS, WE'LL PUT IT TO APRIL. SO IT'S ACTUALLY FOUR, FOUR MONTHS, ABOUT FOUR MONTHS FROM NOW OR SO, A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN FOUR MORE MONTHS, WHICH PUTS IT AROUND THE 1ST OF OCTOBER. AND, AND, AND TO, TO THAT, TO YOUR POINT, I THINK THOSE ARE GREAT SUGGESTIONS AND I THINK IT, IT NEEDS TO BE, BECAUSE THE CITY HAS THIS, THEY'RE SITTING BACK AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE SAYING, HEY, THIS IS A REPEAT OFFENDER, REPEAT OFFENDER, REPEAT OFFENDER. WE'RE AT THE SAME TIME TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF, UH, LIVELIHOOD. AND, AND, AND THERE'S GOTTA BE A BALANCE RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY WHAT WE'RE ALL GOING THROUGH. UH, IT, IT, IT WITH EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON WITH WORK AND, AND EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, PERIOD. SO TO THAT POINT, I, I, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD RECOMMENDATION, BUT IT ALSO NEEDS TO, HE, MR. THOMPSON NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS, THIS IS STRIKE 2.9. AND IF, IF HE, IF HE DOES THIS AGAIN, THAT WE CAN'T JUST KEEP SAYING IT'S OKAY. WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE GIVING A, WE ARE DOING A PAUSE, MIKE, TO YOUR POINT, I THINK, BUT HE'S GOTTA KNOW THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GIVING HIM ONE MORE NOT ON THE LIFELINE. AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO, TO GO WITH THE CITY AND DO FULL REVOCATION AND WE'RE NOT IF WE GO, IF WE PASS THIS. OKAY. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND ON THE TABLE. ANY MORE DISCUSSION? AND JUST FOR CLARITY, WOULD YOU MIND RESTATING YOUR MOTION, MR. HANLEY? YES. UH, MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT WE, UM, WE EXTEND THE EXISTING SUSPENSION FROM STARTING APRIL 6TH FOR SIX MONTHS AND NOT, UM, UH, TURN DOWN THE APPEAL BY MR. OTTO THOMPSON. HARRISON. AND SO THAT'S THE, THE MOTION. AND THE MOTION WAS SECONDED BY MR. SMITH? YES. AND DOES IT CARRY THE RECOMMENDATION ALSO THAT, THAT MR. THOMPSON KNOW THAT THIS IS, THIS IS, UH, NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. I WILL ACCEPT THAT AMENDMENT TO MY MOTION. OKAY, WE'RE GONNA DO A VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR SAY, AYE. YOU ARE AT ROLL CALL. WE GOTTA DO A ROLL CALL. I'M SORRY I'M NOT, NOT IN THE ROOM. UH, JENNIFER, REAL QUICK BEFORE WE GO, ROLL CALL. UH, WE NEED TO HAVE MR. RIS AND MR. QUEZ, UH, WE'VE LOST YOU ON VIDEO. OKAY. THERE'S MR. FERRIS. I'D GO, I HAD TO GO DRIVE MY BATTERY. UH, JEREMY READY FOR THE GET TO TURN YOU DOING A ROLL CALL BOAT? UH, CURRENTLY I, I NEED, UH, ONE REWARD MEMBER. UH, I NEED TO HAVE, UH, VISUAL ON EITHER, UH, MR. GARCIA OR MR. ARE STILL IN THE LINE. WE STILL HAVE 10 AUDIO, BUT UH, ONLY HAVE EIGHT VIDEO. UH, SO JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE MEETING THE OPEN RECORDS DEPARTMENT. YEAH, MR. GARCIA, YOU DO IT. FACETIME OFF THE PHONE. UH, MR. EZ, BACK TO THAT. I GIVE THAT, UH, THE NINE. OKAY. [03:25:03] OKAY. CAN WE DO THE ROLL CALL PLEASE? JENNIFER? ROB AGREE. CHRISTOPHER GARCIA? UH, I AGREE. CHARLIE HAD TO CHARGE MY PHONE UP, NOT THE CAR TO TRY TO PUT IN MAX BERG. AGREE. ROBERT HANDY? AGREED. MICHAEL RUSH? AGREE. MICHAEL RUSH? UH, YES. BRIAN SMITH? YES. WILLIAM BURRIS. AGREED. MOORE AGREED. MOTION PASSES WITH A VOTE OF 10 TO ZERO. OKAY, SO THAT, UH, THAT CONCLUDES THAT MEETING. UH, THANK YOU FOR THE, UH, TOUGH DECISION EVERYBODY MADE, AND I THINK THAT WAS A VERY FAIR DECISION, UH, THAT I THINK CONCLUDES EVERYTHING WE HAD ON OUR AGENDA. UH, JENNIFER, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE NEEDED TO COVER OR JEREMY? UM, JEREMY, UM, NO STAFF HAS NO ADDITIONAL REPORTS OR ITEMS TO ADDRESS AT THIS MOMENT. UH, SO THE ONLY THING WE WOULD NEED IS TO ADJOURN. OKAY. CAN I GET A MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT? ? SO I, I JUST ONE QUICK, ONE QUICK QUESTION. CHAIRMAN. UH, I JUST WANT TO APPLAUD CITY STAFF FOR DOING THIS, UH, WEBEX. UH, IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT WE GOT TOGETHER. THIS WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL AND I APPRECIATE THE EFFORT THAT CITY STAFF HAD TO PUT TOGETHER TO, TO GET ALL OF US TOGETHER AND TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE NEED TO ACCOMPLISH TODAY. I, I, I AGREE AND I THANK EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD APPRECIATES THE HARD WORK THAT THEY DO, AND HOPEFULLY NOTHING WE DO UNDERMINES ALL THE HARD WORK THEY'RE DOING. WE APPRECIATE IT. RIGHT. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE THE BOARD. OKAY, WE, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND BY MR. HANLEY TO ADJOURN. SAY AYE. A . I DON'T THINK WE NEED, I APPRECIATE THE TIME. YEAH, I. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.